# How can I tell if I'm a Ni or a Ti dom?



## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

dizzycactus said:


> Those sound more like concrete stories with concrete events that have symbolic connotations, which isn't too bad.
> 
> I'll give a minor example that maybe doesn't quite express the idea fully.
> There was an article I was reading about physiological differences that account for sexuality in the brain. Everyone interviewed in the article seem logical and clear until they switch from interviewing scientists to get a social scientist's input (which, as a physics/software grad, I find somewhat amusing), and they start speaking in what appears to be smart-sounding nonsense that, if you examine carefully, basically seems to amount to complaining that hard science tries to come to concrete conclusions instead of just appeasing feelings (positivistic seems to mean trying to arrive at definite conclusions through physical measurements/observations i.e. the complaint of a "positivistic scientific philosophy" is essentially complaining that science is scientific/empirical), and that the conclusions should be suppressed because a physiological explanation undermines the validity of social sciences and goes against their political agenda.
> ...


Ah. The "essentialization" accusation... 

You know.. I'm an Ni dom and this stuff bugs me too. 

I guess there is a difference between being born with a trait and being able to change it. But that doesn't mean there is a problem with trying to understand the biological mechanisms of sexuality. The same kinda thing is being done with sexuality more generally (not orientation-focused), and I don't hear anyone complaining about that. 

"So, I think a better question is, what are the different biological pathways that then interact with different environments to affect the sexual feelings and dispositions that we have?"

Well I would agree with her there. That's along the lines of looking at neuroplasticity. But I do think bringing cultural factors into it would inevitably open a can of worms about sexual orientation being a choice. Religion is such a bad example, because people _can_ choose whether to follow a religion or not. And it would be a lot harder to find concrete biological correlates of people practicing religion (psychological functions and brain activation patterns, perhaps, but not dimorphic midbrain structures...)

I could address more of her points but I'm getting off topic.

You might be interested in this documentary, it's related to the article you posted (it's long, 6 parts 35-40 mins each.. I didn't think I could get through the whole thing but I did).


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

* *




INTJ or INTP Test - CelebrityTypes.com

*Your result is: INTP*
*[COLOR=#FFFFFF !important]Analytical, knowledgeable, and intellectual, you prefer to immerse yourself in complex problems and projects. If the interest is there, you can become so engulfed in the problem and your own thoughts about it that you tend to forget about everyday living and become absent-minded and remote. You are driven by a desire to understand and explore the problems that interest you on an intellectual level, which means that sometimes you are more interested in the ideas that govern a given problem than in the actual problem itself. You want to go your own ways and you resent being controlled or told what to do. And to your credit, you do not want to control other people either, if only you can be left free to organize the ideas in your own head.
*
INTJ​*41%​*

*59%​*
INTP​[/COLOR]
ENTP or INTP Test - CelebrityTypes.com
*ENTP or INTP Test*

*Based on the Work of Myers, Briggs, and Jung*

*Your result is: INTP
*

ENTP​*47%​*

*53%​*
INTP

INFJ or INTJ Test - CelebrityTypes.com

*INFJ or INTJ Test*

*Based on the Work of Myers, Briggs, and Jung*

*Your result is: INFJ
[COLOR=#FFFFFF !important]Sensitive, empathic, and insightful, you care deeply about people, wanting to accommodate them on the one hand, and having strong visions that you desperately want to turn into reality on the other. Often preoccupied with mulling over your personal thoughts in your own head, others are likely to describe you as tolerant, courteous, and appreciative, but also a bit remote and dreamy. Thoughtful and caring, you have a well-developed facility for putting yourself in another person's place and an instinctive understanding of how people work. Though you tend to spend considerable time fantasizing about how society could be improved, you typically refrain from arguing passionately in favor of your solutions. Instead, you prefer to influence others by gently letting them know how their individual contributions would be invaluable in the greater scheme of things.

*[/COLOR]

INFJ​*53%​*

*47%​*
INTJ​INFJ or INFP Test - CelebrityTypes.com

*Your result is: INFJ*
*[COLOR=#FFFFFF !important]Sensitive, empathic, and insightful, you care deeply about people, wanting to accommodate them on the one hand, and having strong visions that you desperately want to turn into reality on the other. Often preoccupied with mulling over your personal thoughts in your own head, others are likely to describe you as tolerant, courteous, and appreciative, but also a bit remote and dreamy. Thoughtful and caring, you have a well-developed facility for putting yourself in another person's place and an instinctive understanding of how people work. Though you tend to spend considerable time fantasizing about how society could be improved, you typically refrain from arguing passionately in favor of your solutions. Instead, you prefer to influence others by gently letting them know how their individual contributions would be invaluable in the greater scheme of things.
*[/COLOR]
*41%​*

*59%​*




INFP or INTP Test - CelebrityTypes.com

*INFP or INTP Test*

*Based on the Work of Myers, Briggs, and Jung*

*Your result is: INTP*
*[COLOR=#FFFFFF !important]Analytical, knowledgeable, and intellectual, you prefer to immerse yourself in complex problems and projects. If the interest is there, you can become so engulfed in the problem and your own thoughts about it that you tend to forget about everyday living and become absent-minded and remote. You are driven by a desire to understand and explore the problems that interest you on an intellectual level, which means that sometimes you are more interested in the ideas that govern a given problem than in the actual problem itself. You want to go your own ways and you resent being controlled or told what to do. And to your credit, you do not want to control other people either, if only you can be left free to organize the ideas in your own head.
*[/COLOR]

INFP​*35%​*

*65%​*




Took a bunch of tests on Celeb Types and according to them; I am conclusively an N_Ti/Fe or an N_Fe/Ti type or IOW, I am either an INTP or an INFJ. So nice to finally have clarity.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Chesire Tower said:


> I strongly relate to both and my Ne is pretty high also.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas how to figure out if one is a Ni or a Ti dominant?
> 
> Thanks. :frustrating:


Let me see...
7000+ posts over 3 years.
Still don't have a clue.

Nope can't help you, probably lost case.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Strontphite said:


> Let me see...
> 7000+ posts over 3 years.
> Still don't have a clue.
> 
> Nope can't help you, probably lost case.


That was really helpful; thank you.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Chesire Tower said:


> That was really helpful; thank you.


You are welcome, now that you know that this is a deadend,
you might be able to free up more time for more pressing matters.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Strontphite said:


> You are welcome, now that you know that this is a deadend,
> you might be able to free up more time for more pressing matters.


Thanks again, Dear Abby.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Take the Character Analysis | Prelude Character Analysis

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Chesire Tower said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I give up :frustrating:; cognitive functions tests clearly show me preferring Ti/Fe over Fi/Te but MBTI like tests have me as a J.

I am either INFJ or INTP and unfortunately there is no INFJ/INTP test. :/


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

ninjahitsawall said:


> Ah. The "essentialization" accusation...
> 
> You know.. I'm an Ni dom and this stuff bugs me too.
> 
> ...


While that is one of her more reasonable statements, the problem I have with that statement is that it presumes that the environment must definitely influence our sexuality. While I'm not opposed to such a hypothesis, the unqualified assumption of it being true within the statement seems to me to simply be motivated by a desire to justify her field and keep it relevant. By phrasing the statement such that social factors are presumed to be a factor rather than just possibly a factor pending further investigation, it artificially pushes her field as equally valid to that of the harder sciences. I'm not saying, based on the available information, that this is demonstrably false, but rather it's the blatant agenda behind her statement that irks me and makes her statement a bit weasely. Science should be about discovering the truth, not influenced by politics or other personal factors. 



> I could address more of her points but I'm getting off topic.


Her points don't seem to be points, is my main point. Maybe also off topic, but it reminds me a lot of certain political movements who dismiss other perspectives as "reactionary". No explanation of what exactly about that justifies their dismissal; they just throw out a smart-sounding term, put their nose in the air, and refuse to expand further. This is directly analogous to simply saying something is "positivistic" and leaving it at that. As far as I can see, there's no expounding on it, because there's no substance behind the criticism with which to expand upon.


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## 100_the_cat (Oct 1, 2016)

Stevester said:


> First of all, if you are a Ni-Dom then it's odd that you would have strong Ne since that would be the other end of the intuitive spectrum and thus your psyche would be pulled in opposite directions.
> 
> I'm not a good reference for this one because I have neither of these functions in my stack. But from my understanding. Ti would mean you feel mostly emotionally detached from your environment and look at it from a perspective of inner logic, deconstructing and piecing everything together like a puzzle, no matter if it's people, events or things.
> 
> ...


The symbols used by Ni are subjective, but they're getting at something universal. Or in other words, you can perceive universal principles via subjective symbolism. 

It's a matter of, is your intuition communicating in a language other people understand (Ne) or is it communicating in a private language (Ni)? 

Just because something's "written in a foreign language" that doesn't make it invalid or incorrect. It just means you need a translator.

And really, if you get down into core subconscious processing, as far as symbols are concerned, one thing is symbolic for every other thing. Every symbol is a holographic representation of everything that could possibly exist. The future is already determined and is retrieved by Ni in segments. What Ni does is use the symbol with the closest proximity to the concept it's bringing insight about, and that symbol/proximity all depends on what you've already absorbed in life. So basically your personal timeline is used to "remember" what comes next.


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

dizzycactus said:


> While that is one of her more reasonable statements, the problem I have with that statement is that it presumes that the environment must definitely influence our sexuality. While I'm not opposed to such a hypothesis, the unqualified assumption of it being true within the statement seems to me to simply be motivated by a desire to justify her field and keep it relevant. By phrasing the statement such that social factors are presumed to be a factor rather than just possibly a factor pending further investigation, it artificially pushes her field as equally valid to that of the harder sciences. I'm not saying, based on the available information, that this is demonstrably false, but rather it's the blatant agenda behind her statement that irks me and makes her statement a bit weasely. Science should be about discovering the truth, not influenced by politics or other personal factors.
> 
> 
> Her points don't seem to be points, is my main point. Maybe also off topic, but it reminds me a lot of certain political movements who dismiss other perspectives as "reactionary". No explanation of what exactly about that justifies their dismissal; they just throw out a smart-sounding term, put their nose in the air, and refuse to expand further. This is directly analogous to simply saying something is "positivistic" and leaving it at that. As far as I can see, there's no expounding on it, because there's no substance behind the criticism with which to expand upon.


Claims.. statements? Whatever they are. 

"While I'm not opposed to such a hypothesis, the unqualified assumption of it being true within the statement seems to me to simply be motivated by a desire to justify her field and keep it relevant. " 

Honestly, I've never understood the fixation on attributing everything to environment/culture. For example, I've heard the argument that eating disorders are a "completely social thing". (Not from a social scientist, just a self-identified feminist -- though obviously that's where the influence comes from.) But "laypeople" aren't as concerned with staying relevant as they are with sustaining their worldviews and avoiding cognitive dissonance. And even psychologists, who are typically considered social scientists as well, would blatantly disagree with that notion re: eating disorders. There are many case like that where it's not only about justifying a field, but justifying a belief system.


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Chesire Tower said:


> Take the Character Analysis | Prelude Character Analysis
> 
> [FONT=&]INTJThe Scientist[/FONT] » Character Analysis Questionnaire » Results
> 
> ...


I beleive modern MBTI has moved away from cognitive functions and does not always line up with function stacking.
Also reading Gifts Differeing Myers took both her interpretation of Jung and her observations (and reasonable assumption) that the Auxiliary function was opposite in every way to the dominant. She did not dismiss someone from having an auxiliary function having the same attitude as the dominant function. She saw it as quite uncommon and could be seen in extreme individuals.

So a type Ni Ti as the first two functions is possible. I would expect a MBTI type as INTx with a very slight preference for J or P as there isn't a clear expression of an extraverted function.

I dont see this as INFJ as feeling would need to be more concious than thinking. The function stack is not limited to Ni Fe Ti Se and so the strong use of Ni and Ti does not mean INFJ (that type prefers Feeling over thinking).

If you haven't you could look into socionics. Both INTp and INTj have highly developed Ni and Ti, it comes down to which is valued and conscious.

Otherwise you could just go with which profile (INTP, INTJ or INFJ) sounds the most like yourself.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Ksara said:


> I beleive modern MBTI has moved away from cognitive functions and does not always line up with function stacking.
> Also reading Gifts Differeing Myers took both her interpretation of Jung and her observations (and reasonable assumption) that the Auxiliary function was opposite in every way to the dominant. She did not dismiss someone from having an auxiliary function having the same attitude as the dominant function. She saw it as quite uncommon and could be seen in extreme individuals.
> 
> So a type Ni Ti as the first two functions is possible. I would expect a MBTI type as INTx with a very slight preference for J or P as there isn't a clear expression of an extraverted function.
> ...


Well, as I said in the above post; I do believe I am a Ti/Fe valuing type. All the tests I took on Celeb types differed between Ti/Fe and Fi/Te. INTP vs. INTJ=INTP; INFJ vs. INTJ=INFJ; INFJ vs. INFP=INFJ; INTP vs. INFP=INTP. So, if you think these tests have any validity and that the perceiving and judging axes are real and are significant; they clearly show this tendency. In a recent socionics test; I got ILI (INTJ); ILE (ENTP) and LII; INTP. I think I am Fe valuing but may be it isn't strong enough to be an aux. However, if those assumptions are just based on stereotypes; I supposed some INTJs might have unusually developed Fe? I was firced to develop Fe at a very young age for survival reasons. I'm not sure if I should bring Enneagram into it but could my being an SO/SX possibly be the reason for this confusion? Could I be confusing Fe with SO? Also, I related most strongly with the Alpha quadra and least with gamma. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I relate about equally well to INFJ and INTP. I guess, if I could figure out if I am a Ni or a Ti dom; that would probably settle it. Alternatively; if there is such a thing as a highly introverted ENTP; which I also relate to; that could resolve this as well. When i have taken the INTP vs. ENTP test; I have not gotten clear results. On Big 5 tests; my I/E score has not been consistent. I am not clear if I am a cognitive introvert but I am certain that I am a clear social one and of course; being an Enneagram 5w4 certainly confuses the issue. I read vociferously; I surf the web to find new ideas to analyze and make sense of. Ideas are like candy to me; I could rightly be considered an idea-aholic; is this Ne?


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

I have a test for you to gauge whether you're an INFJ or INTP: 

If you're in a car with someone, and they scream at you to hurry up and get out and get something for them, would you do it reasonably fast (forget the feelings aspect, just focus on the actual action)? Or would them rushing you overwhelm you and make you more prone to not going or slowing down? Are you naturally "slow"? Do you mind if people come onto your space?

In conversations, do you try to eliminate the pressure of "time" or are you aware of it? 

Answer these and I think I can help you :wink:


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> I have a test for you to gauge whether you're an INFJ or INTP:
> 
> If you're in a car with someone, and they scream at you to hurry up and get out and get something for them, would you do it reasonably fast (forget the feelings aspect, just focus on the actual action)? Or would them rushing you overwhelm you and make you more prone to not going or slowing down? Are you naturally "slow"? Do you mind if people come onto your space?


Well, I'm in my head so much; so I space out a lot and especially under any kind of pressure. To answer your question; yeah, I would definitely be overwhelmed by that. Yeah, when it comes to anything physical; I am naturally "slow"; paradoxically, I am naturally mentally "fast". Yes, I do mind if people come into my space - especially without warning; which is why, hell for me is public transport during rush hour. I actually had to get over this phobia I had about being trapped in a crowded subway car. I get claustrophobic quite easily but it's about the combination of too many people and enclosed spaces.



TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> In conversations, do you try to eliminate the pressure of "time" or are you aware of it?
> 
> Answer these and I think I can help you :wink:


Yes, I always feel the pressure of time; probably because I feel as if I'm constantly fighting against it. It's like time keeps going and I feel pressured to act and most of it feels involuntary. I feel as if I'm in a constant war with time and I'm usually on the losing side of it.


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

Chesire Tower said:


> Well, I'm in my head so much; so I space out a lot and especially under any kind of pressure. To answer your question; yeah, I would definitely be overwhelmed by that. Yeah, when it comes to anything physical; I am naturally "slow"; paradoxically, I am naturally mentally "fast". Yes, I do mind if people come into my space - especially without warning; which is why, hell for me is public transport during rush hour. I actually had to get over this phobia I had about being trapped in a crowded subway car. I get claustrophobic quite easily but it's about the combination of too many people and enclosed spaces.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I always feel the pressure of time; probably because I feel as if I'm constantly fighting against it. It's like time keeps going and I feel pressured to act and most of it feels involuntary. I feel as if I'm in a constant war with time and I'm usually on the losing side of it.


You're an INTP. Restricted Se, not Te. You're "slow" but you care about efficiency more than an INFJ would. When you talk about time, it's about the "pressure to act". INTPs are equally strong in Ti and Ni as well according to socionics so it'd make sense for you to be an INTP.


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## Bash (Nov 19, 2014)

Chesire Tower said:


> I'm curious; how do you get 4 from my pictures?


Cat at the bottom makes me think of Alice in Wonderland, the Cheshirecate. I just get a four vibe from it.


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## Siri (Aug 1, 2015)

Ti is a static function and Ni is a dynamic function.

Static Types:

-Perceive events in an *episodic manner i.e discrete states rather than continuous changes*.
-More inclined to say how stages A, B and C are.
-*Describe events in a general manner* and by comparing them to other similar events.
-More inclined to *talk of properties and structures of reality*.
-The stories of statics usually involve one constant main character.

Dynamic Types:

-Perceive events in a *continuous sequence i.e continuous changes rather than discrete states.*
-More inclined to say how stage A leads to stage B, and how stage B leads to stage C.
-*Describe events in a specific and concrete manner.*
-More inclined to talk of movements and interactions of reality.
-The stories of dynamics usually involve multiple main characters.


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

Siri said:


> Ti is a static function and Ni is a dynamic function.
> 
> Static Types:
> 
> ...


This is interesting. Is Si dynamic cause I relate to that.


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## Siri (Aug 1, 2015)

TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> This is interesting. Is Si dynamic cause I relate to that.


Indeed!
Static functions: Ti, Fi, Ne, Se. (All Ps in MBTI)
Dynamic functions: Te, Fe, Ni, Si. (All Js in MBTI)


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> You're an INTP. Restricted Se, not Te. You're "slow" but you care about efficiency more than an INFJ would. When you talk about time, it's about the "pressure to act". INTPs are equally strong in Ti and Ni as well according to socionics so it'd make sense for you to be an INTP.


Are you referring to PoLR in Socionics?



Bash said:


> Cat at the bottom makes me think of Alice in Wonderland, the Cheshirecate. I just get a four vibe from it.


Well, you are correct; it is indeed the Chesire cat but I don't understand how you get a "four vibe" from it?


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Siri said:


> Ti is a static function and Ni is a dynamic function.
> 
> Static Types:
> 
> ...


Do you have an opinion on whether you perceive me to be either a static or dynamic type?


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

Chesire Tower said:


> Are you referring to PoLR in Socionics?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you are correct; it is indeed the Chesire cat but I don't understand how you get a "four vibe" from it?


Yes my sister is an INTP and I see it turned off intensely in her. That's actually where the scenario about being pressured in a car comes from. She hates being rushed and is inclined to not do what you want her to do if you put pressure on her to do it. 

For me, I suck at Ne but I enjoy turning it on. So I feel like your inferior Se shouldn't be that repressed if you're an INFJ.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> Yes my sister is an INTP and I see it turned off intensely in her. That's actually where the scenario about being pressured in a car comes from. She hates being rushed and is inclined to not do what you want her to do if you put pressure on her to do it.
> 
> For me, I suck at Ne but I enjoy turning it on. So I feel like your inferior Se shouldn't be that repressed if you're an INFJ.


When it involves absolutely anything Se related I can feel pressured; since I was a kid, I have always suffered from an extreme mind - body disconnect. It's like I have this head with a independent body attached to it.

I am not referring to anything internal; I relate to that just fine; it all about doing absolutely anything at all physical; it never ever seems completely natural to me, the way thinking does.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

@TheDarknessInTheSnow not to burst your bubble but I'd have a pretty similar reaction to OP. Having time pressure put on me, especially a high stress situation like that, paralyses me. I freeze, respond very slowly, the higher the stress, the less I respond. I might try to be fast but fail and become clumsy. My brain goes completely blank.

Of course, I don't know about socionics and PoLR or anything, so maybe I'm completely missing something here.
@Cheshire Tower, do you find you're more likely to catastrophise or multiply when thinking of a scenario? Do you find you 'converge' or 'diverge'?


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## Siri (Aug 1, 2015)

Chesire Tower said:


> Do you have an opinion on whether you perceive me to be either a static or dynamic type?


I haven't seen your descriptions of any event, so no opinions yet.


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

Nephilibata said:


> @TheDarknessInTheSnow not to burst your bubble but I'd have a pretty similar reaction to OP. Having time pressure put on me, especially a high stress situation like that, paralyses me. I freeze, respond very slowly, the higher the stress, the less I respond. I might try to be fast but fail and become clumsy. My brain goes completely blank.
> 
> Of course, I don't know about socionics and PoLR or anything, so maybe I'm completely missing something here.
> @Cheshire Tower, do you find you're more likely to catastrophise or multiply when thinking of a scenario? Do you find you 'converge' or 'diverge'?


My bubble is already burst LOL. You're an INFJ so you suck at Se, but to be honest... what pressure? If someone told me to go get something and fast, that's not pressure and I'd do it immediately. Maybe it's sensory pressure to act? My INTJ friends with inferior Se don't have this problem with restricted Se like my INTP sister. They actually engage with their Se too. And especially the way the OP described their experience to me... like being uncomfortable with someone entering your space, I just got tremendously unfavored and naturally terrible Se. It's a cute little test, I don't think it's always accurate. 

According to this theory, INFJs and ISFJs would have more a problem with time (Te), while INTPs and INFPs would have a problem with actually "doing" stuff (Se). The second question was meant to confirm an INFJ, and the OP still related in a way, but they weren't concerned with the actual time, just the action. 

Basically INFJs would struggle with the pressure of time, while INTPs would struggle with the pressure of doing the action. Almost the same thing, closely related, but not exactly (which explains why you said "time pressure like that"). Still confusing cause repressing Se gives you a really "slow" vibe as in you hate being rushed but still you aren't that bad at being efficient.  I guess both are related to time after all?

Maybe OP should see the static vs. dynamic test, cause for me, it was obvious right away I fall under dynamic. How about you describe your day yesterday or something?


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> My bubble is already burst LOL. You're an INFJ so you suck at Se, but to be honest... what pressure? If someone told me to go get something and fast, that's not pressure and I'd do it immediately. Maybe it's sensory pressure to act? My INTJ friends with inferior Se don't have this problem with restricted Se like my INTP sister. They actually engage with their Se too. And especially the way the OP described their experience to me... like being uncomfortable with someone entering your space, I just got tremendously unfavored and naturally terrible Se. It's a cute little test, I don't think it's always accurate.
> 
> Maybe OP should see the static vs. dynamic test, cause for me, it was obvious right away I fall under dynamic.


Oh! Well, just in the example you described, that would seem like pressure to me, because getting yelled at signals to me that a person is in a rush > needs me to react quick > pressure to do what they ask fast and right. I think it's definitely sensory pressure though. My father's Se-aux and very impatient, so there's a lot of yelling if you can't react right the second he wants something from you and you don't do it right. I fail at responding physically fast though, so that probably gives me the impression of that situation being 'pressure'. It's the subconscious anxiety of messing up that freezes me, I think, but I don't know if that's inf-Se, enneagram or me-related. I'm kind of 'slow' - slow to react or speak my mind, at life, I guess. The paradox is that I need to think my Se-moments/scenarios over to feel like I've got a handle on it, except that doesn't quite work of course. In the moment, I really do completely blank out or, as I've been able to do more as I've gotten a bit older, improvise. It does always take a short while of disorientation to catch on and deal ^^'

Someone entering my space (physical and mental) makes me uncomfortable as well, but I'm naturally a touch averse person, so I don't know if that counts.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Nephilibata said:


> @*TheDarknessInTheSnow* not to burst your bubble but I'd have a pretty similar reaction to OP. Having time pressure put on me, especially a high stress situation like that, paralyses me. I freeze, respond very slowly, the higher the stress, the less I respond. I might try to be fast but fail and become clumsy. My brain goes completely blank.
> 
> Of course, I don't know about socionics and PoLR or anything, so maybe I'm completely missing something here.
> @*Cheshire Tower*, do you find you're more likely to catastrophise or multiply when thinking of a scenario? Do you find you 'converge' or 'diverge'?


Not exactly sure what you're asking and it depends on the scenario. I'm not sure I do either one; whenever I think of a scenario; I form an entire picture in my head: what's happening, what is likely to happen and I like to speculate on different possibilities about how it may all play out based on specific unrelated factors. I am a huge fan of the concepts expressed in such films such as _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_, _Sliding Doors_, _Groundhog Day_, etc. I love thinking about "what if" type of scenarios; as in what if ____; what if I had gone to a different high school; what if I had been born in a different time and place. I recently read this novel, _Glory Season _by David Brin, which was based on a futuristic feminist society and I loved how - while being completely objective - as far as clearly delineating all of the obvious pros and cons of such a society; I found it fascinating how everything was turned on its head; when compared with our world. I love stuff like that. One of my favourite stories is speculative fiction/sci-fi/fantasy/horror tale called _A Little Place Off of Edgeware Road_ by Graham Greene:


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

Nephilibata said:


> Oh! Well, just in the example you described, that would seem like pressure to me, because getting yelled at signals to me that a person is in a rush > needs me to react quick > pressure to do what they ask fast and right. I think it's definitely sensory pressure though. My father's Se-aux and very impatient, so there's a lot of yelling if you can't react right the second he wants something from you and you don't do it right. I fail at responding physically fast though, so that probably gives me the impression of that situation being 'pressure'. It's the subconscious anxiety of messing up that freezes me, I think, but I don't know if that's inf-Se, enneagram or me-related. I'm kind of 'slow' - slow to react or speak my mind, at life, I guess. The paradox is that I need to think my Se-moments/scenarios over to feel like I've got a handle on it, except that doesn't quite work of course. In the moment, I really do completely blank out or, as I've been able to do more as I've gotten a bit older, improvise. It does always take a short while of disorientation to catch on and deal ^^'
> 
> Someone entering my space (physical and mental) makes me uncomfortable as well, but I'm naturally a touch averse person, so I don't know if that counts.


Yeah but again I see for you the pressure of time related to being efficient and doing it "right". I guess turned down Se vs. Te is too complicated to verbalize clearly. Bad test on my part LOL


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> Maybe OP should see the static vs. dynamic test, cause for me, it was obvious right away I fall under dynamic. How about you describe your day yesterday or something?


Do you have a link?



Nephilibata said:


> Oh! Well, just in the example you described, that would seem like pressure to me, because getting yelled at signals to me that a person is in a rush > needs me to react quick > pressure to do what they ask fast and right. I think it's definitely sensory pressure though. My father's Se-aux and very impatient, so there's a lot of yelling if you can't react right the second he wants something from you and you don't do it right. I fail at responding physically fast though, so that probably gives me the impression of that situation being 'pressure'. It's the subconscious anxiety of messing up that freezes me, I think, but I don't know if that's inf-Se, enneagram or me-related. I'm kind of 'slow' - slow to react or speak my mind, at life, I guess. *The paradox is that I need to think my Se-moments/scenarios over to feel like I've got a handle on it, except that doesn't quite work of course. In the moment, I really do completely blank out or, as I've been able to do more as I've gotten a bit older, improvise. It does always take a short while of disorientation to catch on and deal ^^'
> *
> Someone entering my space (physical and mental) makes me uncomfortable as well, but I'm naturally a touch averse person, so I don't know if that counts.


Yeah, completely relate, especially the bolded.

Also wanted to add, one of my favourite films is David Lynche's _Muholland Drive_ and my favourite show of all time - probably no shock at this point XD - _The Twilight Zone_. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulholland_Drive_(film)


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

TheDarknessInTheSnow said:


> Yeah but again I see for you the pressure of time related to being efficient and doing it "right". I guess turned down Se vs. Te is too complicated to verbalize clearly. Bad test on my part LOL


:'D It's fine, as I said, I don't know anything about socionics, so I can't explain it in those terms and maybe burst in when it was completely inappropriate. I think I sort of see what you mean though.

As for the test, well, it was worth a try and interesting. All we can do is offer methods that have worked for us, but there's no guarantee they'll work for others.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

> One night, I sat down, *the ideas came in*, and it was a most beautiful experience.* Everything was seen from a different angle ... Now, looking back, I see that [the film] always wanted to be this way.* It just took this strange beginning to cause it to be what it is.
> 
> David Lynch, 2001


I completely relate to this quote; it really describes my thought process to a T.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

Chesire Tower said:


> Not exactly sure what you're asking and it depends on the scenario. I'm not sure I do either one; whenever I think of a scenario; I form an entire picture in my head: what's happening, what is likely to happen and I like to speculate on different possibilities about how it may all play out based on specific unrelated factors. I am a huge fan of the concepts expressed in such films such as _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_, _Sliding Doors_, _Groundhog Day_, etc. I love thinking about "what if" type of scenarios; as in what if ____; what if I had gone to a different high school; what if I had been born in a different time and place. I recently read this novel, _Glory Season _by David Brin, which was based on a futuristic feminist society and I loved how - while being completely objective - as far as clearly delineating all of the obvious pros and cons of such a society; I found it fascinating how everything was turned on its head; when compared with our world. I love stuff like that. One of my favourite stories is speculative fiction/sci-fi/fantasy/horror tale called _A Little Place Off of Edgeware Road_ by Graham Greene:


Hmmm....I don't know any of those, but I'll need to check them out.

It's difficult to say from what you say, though I apologise for not being clear enough. Have you happened to see any version of the 'parody' musical 'Into The Woods?'

There's a scene in which Cinderella stands on the steps of the palace, caught between running away and letting the prince catch up to her:

https://youtu.be/kfmgy6pxMjs

Granted, I think it's more representative of inferior Ne than high Ne, but the point is that that sort of conflict is wildly unfamiliar to me. Whenever I'd read about it or see it in a film, I used to think it was made up as plot device. I can relate to this Ne-problem so little that it didn't occur to me until getting into MBTI that it's real.

Obviously, the song exaggerates it, but my guess is that if you can't relate to this on any level, you're not a Ne-user. Any INXP/other Ne-user do correct me, since this assumption is literally me blowing hot air.

Otherwise, look at George R.R. Martin. Heaps of characters, plot lines, twisting and exploring every curve, but slow to really advance the actual plot line. Sort of a long, winding road taking a leisurely pace focused on exploration vs Ni's 'highway', going from A to D because it doesn't have to 'checkpoint' B and C to know they won't lead to where it wants to go.

This is a bit simplistic, but maybe it helps a bit? I'll try and think of some other stuff.


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

Chesire Tower said:


> Do you have a link?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No I didn't even know about it until I read the comment LOL. Just tell a story roud:. And I hate to bring in another theory that may or may not work at all, but I'll do it anyway. Do you get along with ESFPs or ESTPs?


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## TheDarknessInTheSnow (May 28, 2016)

Nephilibata said:


> Hmmm....I don't know any of those, but I'll need to check them out.
> 
> It's difficult to say from what you say, though I apologise for not being clear enough. Have you happened to see any version of the 'parody' musical 'Into The Woods?'
> 
> ...


Wow that's a good idea. Inferior Ne and that song is the story of my life LOL.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

Oh! To add, (and I actually don't know if this applies to Ne too), I do find that 'my best thinking is done by not thinking at all'.

Over-analysing is what I do, but I've found to just take in information and understanding it the best I can, but not forcing it all to come together consciously, is actually better. My mind functions best when I learn all I can, collecting information, but a synthesised conclusion appears only once that last puzzle piece of info falls into place. It sounds stereotypical as hell, but 'waiting for it to finish simmering' without any conscious effort for it to go faster really does end in big revelations and such.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Nephilibata said:


> Hmmm....I don't know any of those, but I'll need to check them out.
> 
> It's difficult to say from what you say, though I apologise for not being clear enough. Have you happened to see any version of the 'parody' musical 'Into The Woods?'
> 
> ...


Well, I love musicals; so I'm sure I would enjoy it. I will just say, that I see a specific "vision" but not an actual vision (if you catch my drift) of a situation is likely to play out and I speculate on the outcome of that specific situation from multiple angles. IOW, I take one thing and examine it from multiple perspectives.

As far as the clip you posted; seems to me like tertiary/inferior Te: I don't want to make a decision and I will leave a clue; so the other person can make it for me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I haven't actually seen GOT but I like to watch _Once Upon A Time_; have you seen it?

The show always shows the characters in two relatable but different environments: time, place, etc and in both of the dimensions; a story follows and both of these alternately disparate but connected stories, combine to help both resolve the past and light a path for the future.






Another series, I really enjoyed was called _Being Erica_:

It's kind of similar: Past and present falling into each other and illusion of time.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

Nephilibata said:


> Oh! To add, (and I actually don't know if this applies to Ne too), I do find that 'my best thinking is done by not thinking at all'.
> 
> Over-analysing is what I do, but I've found to just take in information and understanding it the best I can, but not forcing it all to come together consciously, is actually better. My mind functions best when I learn all I can, collecting information, but a synthesised conclusion appears only once that last puzzle piece of info falls into place. It sounds stereotypical as hell, but 'waiting for it to finish simmering' without any conscious effort for it to go faster really does end in big revelations and such.


I occasionally have insights that way, but in general to be at my best I have to concentrate intensely, so that's a difference. 

One example, I needed to program a function that could do "*" wildcard matching in strings. 
Almost immediately, a vague concept came to me of chopping the string into individual * iterations and matching each one individually; something to do with only matching one at a time then chopping the string down to the next substring with the next * to match. 
But it was a blurry image. A vague concept like that doesn't tell you exactly how to implement it, it's only a starting point. So then, I went off and sat somewhere quiet and concentrated very intently on the problem and various solutions and what the outcomes would be, and that's when I finished the solution. 

So it's like Ne - grasp the concept, general possibilities, overall form, then use Ti via intense concentration to fill things out.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

Chesire Tower said:


> Well, I love musicals; so I'm sure I would enjoy it. I will just say, that I see a specific "vision" but not an actual vision (if you catch my drift) of a situation is likely to play out and I speculate on the outcome of that specific situation from multiple angles. IOW, I take one thing and examine it from multiple perspectives.
> 
> As far as the clip you posted; seems to me like tertiary/inferior Te: I don't want to make a decision and I will leave a clue; so the other person can make it for me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
> 
> ...


I see your argument, but the poster above^ does say they can relate as Ne-inferior. And it's not so much about 'taking control of the decision', it's the inability to pick which one to go for. I do know a tert-Te and inf-Te irl, and they're nothing like that; but then, it's not like they're representative of everyone.

I don't really watch GoT either, though I've tried reading the books. I like Once Upon A Time though! I can't really say for sure if it's more Ni or Ne indicative - I do want to say Ni, because it's a process I recognise from my own writing. Everything is interwoven into a single piece of 'art', but it's not obvious until it's revelation exactly how it's all connected.

From what you say about looking at things from different angles, I wanted to say Ne at first, but actually remember describing my Ni once like this (or maybe it's Ni-Ti working together). I examine one thing, turning it over and over until I have a sort of '3D model' of it in my head, and then move on to the next element.

Maybe Ni asks 'What is it? What does this tell me about the situation?'
=> enhancing it's purpose, sometimes to the point of no recognition of original purpose

While Ne asks 'What can I do with it? How can I change it?'
=> giving it a new purpose, sometimes containing elements of the original

I find this sort of thinking to happen when mulling over, I don't know, the power of the elements like in Avatar the last Airbender. You've got a waterbender; obviously, they manipulate actual bodies of water. But you can expand that power to manipulate anything containing water molecules too. You can affect plants, blood, bodies, by controlling them via these molecules, but you can also 'suck them dry' (like Katara did). You can pull water out of the air. You could create water vapour or fog by adding them to air. And so on.

For that same reason, I didn't understand why Toph could bend earth and metal, but not sand. Or glass. It's just another form of earth, after all.

I'm not exactly sure how Ne works, so I can't give a 'personal' example.

How good would you say you are at brainstorming? Is it easy for you to come up with 6-10 completely different things on the spot? Or do you barely manage 5 (or less) and really only have an idea how to keep going with 1 or 2 of those?

About _Erica_: LOL ok, that's actually exactly how I've written stories before. Two parallel story lines that are only loosely interlinked by small 'clues' and draw together at the end to make perfect sense.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

dizzycactus said:


> I occasionally have insights that way, but in general to be at my best I have to concentrate intensely, so that's a difference.
> 
> One example, I needed to program a function that could do "*" wildcard matching in strings.
> Almost immediately, a vague concept came to me of chopping the string into individual * iterations and matching each one individually; something to do with only matching one at a time then chopping the string down to the next substring with the next * to match.
> ...


Hmm, I see...that's super interesting, thanks  I really have trouble grasping Ne at its roots, so that's helpful.

I do get a 'vision' of what I want the 'end product' to look like, but the rest is quite elusive. Strangely enough, it's not exactly analysing and 'coming up' with possibilities, as much as it is like following an invisible path, of how I need to proceed so the end I want fits. It's like uncovering a hidden puzzle, a bit like all you can see is black and as you blink, it gradually fades away until you have the whole picture.

Intense analysis is the absolute antithesis to this, I've found. This 'clearing up' process simply happens and it's like I'm 'watching' my brain do its work.


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