# What is appealing about a four?



## ollipop224 (Jul 6, 2016)

As a four, I understand how emotionally volatile we are. I tend to focus only on the negative aspects of my personality type, and was wondering how other types feel about fours. Particularly what romantic interests find appealing about us--and what makes them pull away from us.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

ollipop224 said:


> As a four, I understand how emotionally volatile we are. I tend to focus only on the negative aspects of my personality type, and was wondering how other types feel about fours. Particularly what romantic interests find appealing about us--and what makes them pull away from us.


LOL good question.For a long time I felt the only thing appealing about me was my art and music, but I felt like people saw a "muse" and not a human, so they didn't love the real me. And why would they?


Curious to hear what people will respond.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Bottom line: They're interesting. There's no end to the amount of rabbits they pull out of their hats. They're full of unexpected layers. There's layer after layer of interesting opinions, humor, creativity, personal interests, and emotional fire. In my experience, they're kind of a paradoxical bunch. Sweet, but cranky, tolerant in some ways but so damn intolerant in others. As stupid as it sounds, I like listening to them bitch about other people. It makes me chuckle... in an endearing way, not a condescending way. My favorite 4 bitches about other girls all the time. She would never admit to herself, let alone anyone else, that she's secretly threatened by them in a way, and feels deeply competitive towards them based on her own insecurities. I just show her love and support in the best ways I can, and try to help her find the humor in it all. I also call her on her shit when it's called for. Back on track now xD Overall, 4s are all over the map, pursuing different interests, and expressing themselves/their sense of identity in many different ways. There's never a boring moment. Even when they're pissed, it's cute... again, a term of endearment, not of condescension. They look at life through a completely different lens than I do, and it's fun to share views with one another, however alien the other's thought processes and motivations may be at times. It's an interesting learning process, and I appreciate the new perspectives they present. Believe me, they're full of them.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Uhh.... I would like to know the answer to this as well.

I've dated some people who seem to have a habit of dating 4s. From observation and speculation, I've gleaned a few patterns. These people tend to be attracted to people who go against the status quo (usually because they relate to feeling like outsiders, despite not being Fours themselves). They like people who are passionate about what they love. They like independent people. They like people who shake things up, and who can have unusual + personal + fulfilling conversations. Largely, they like people who don't pressure them to be anyone they aren't (and I think Fours rarely pressure people in that way).

I know my partners have appreciated that I take their thoughts and emotions very seriously, although sometimes that also annoys them. When people have pulled away from me, I suppose it's usually been because I want more than they can give in terms of commitment, though that's always been a little complicated and messed up.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Also: I think people who like Fours either have to enjoy or Not Mind intensity.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

4s, are probably my favorite type. So this may be a little biased. They are basically like a wounded animal at times and you want to take care of them, but you know on some level they can take of themselves. Their love for aesthetics, and the beauty of them is a real turn on. Even when they are broken people, they still find a way to be beautiful. And it's not that I like seeing broken people, but the way they fully embrace their wounds and often times channel it through something creative is respectable. Even when they get gloomy and moody and shit, it's still kind of endearing. When they get aggressive, it's fierce like an 8 is fierce, but it's more refined, it's not as meaty. They can get clingy though, but it feels different from a 2 getting clingy. It's more of a I just need someone to hold me vs. worship me kind of clingy. 


The way they see the world is so interesting and the way they experience things, the way they face pain and adversity, the way they express themselves, the way they romanticize, idealize, and throw themselves into things, ideas, people, is very beautiful to witness. 


Some of the women I've fallen for the hardest have been 4s or 4 fixers. Some of my most endearing friendships have been with 4s or 4 fixers. Pretty sure I made an entire thread dedicated to how amazing 4s are at some point. I feel like I should stay out of the 4 forum or else I'd just fall in love with every single poster there loll.


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## inabox (Oct 3, 2015)

(oh God, I just came in here to say I want moaaar posts like this :'( ; my narcissism :'( )


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

I thought of another analogy. 4s are kind of like birds. Some people don't notice them, some people are annoyed by their song early in the morning, some people like hearing birds. But birds travel vast distances, some fly south in the winter, others stay. In the same way, 4s traverse the emotional distances others would be afraid of. Some go towards more hospital places emotionally, others stay and experience the winter of their longing. 

I see 4s like wounded birds in a sense. With nurturing, with love, with reassurance, they will fly again, they will sing again. It is so majestic to see a bird in flight, whether in hunt or simply gliding, they are beautiful to watch. To hear them sing is a joy. The worst thing one could ever to do a bird is to clip it's wings, to cage them, to take the song out of them, and often times I feel like that's what the world does to 4s. Maybe in childhood or adolescence, maybe later in life, but they always remember flight and song, they always have that yearning for it. The beauty of 4s is seeing them take flight again after being caged, to have the will to sing with clipped wings.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

BlueChristmas06 said:


> The beauty of 4s is seeing them take flight again after being caged, to have the will to sing with clipped wings.


:,)

This lights up my soul..for obvious reasons. 

You know this already, but I'll write it out for those who don't. 


* *





At age 15, I had a 4-octave range, would get 100% on NYSSMA vocal exams, was earning good money as a singer/pianist/songwriter and was on my way to Broadway and recording my first album. Then at 16, illness almost killed me, and left me speaking in a whisper for the rest of my life. It took me ten years of trauma and tragedy and self-loathing and misery... drug addiction, animalism, being stripped of my dignity and humanity.. but eventually, I had to reclaim my identity, passion and purpose. 

I had to sing lead through my whisper - not only to reclaim myself, but also, because that is what I stand for - staying true to your dreams, your self-expression, your beauty - against all odds. Staying true to yourself, no matter what happens in the world, or even, what happens to you personally. Circumstance is not character. Character is what you do with the hand you're dealt. And to me, _character_ is the only thing that truly matters.

I had to express myself against all odds - for myself, but also, to show the world it could be done. When things got hard, and I felt like all was lost because my voice simply could not do what I wanted it to do, I told myself: do this for everyone. Do this for anyone who has lost something. Do this to be a _symbol_ of staying true to yourself. It's about the _meaning_, not the quality or the outcome. And that kept me going through the hardest times. 

Surviving and leading my band for 5 years in NYC with a chronic illness and no money in a dangerous neighborhood, etc... was no easy feat. And on top of that, I had to build a whole lifestyle around retaining the few notes I had left. My voice would come and go, was not reliable for shows no matter what I did. I had to exercise to keep my airways good, eat a certain way, vacuum constantly to get rid of dust (in an NYC loft across the street from a factory, almost impossible to avoid). I could not socialize at all outside my apartment and shows and rehearsals, because speaking over loud crowds or music would ruin my voice, and in NYC there's nowhere quiet or outdoors to go. It was 5 years of absolute focus and constant endurance, keeping my eyes on the goal, the bigger purpose, something larger than myself. This is why I am certain it's the closest to 'integrating' that I have ever been. I stood for something bigger - a message. I was not just my feelings and the passion and desperation that went into my music - I was a symbol of endurance and I was going to show other people who suffered that it could be done, that as long as they were alive, they could express themselves. (Of course, someone in a wheelchair could not run, and I can't continue to sing due to resurgence of illness, so I am not overlooking poverty, racism, illness or other horrors in the world that stop people from living their dreams - but I am saying that you can still find SOME way to express yourself, no matter what. Steven Hawking is an excellent example of this phenomenon.)

I needed to beat the odds senseless - I needed to embody a cause that was bigger than my emotions, bigger than myself. I needed to fulfill my purpose. 

And while I was perfectionistic and obsessive about the quality and presentation of the music at the time; I knew deep down that what makes it meaningful is not the quality. I listen to the album now and cringe at mistakes, problems, things I would do differently. I tried to get it exactly how I want - but with limited budget, illness, people quitting and other problems, I eventually had to release it as is. An art project is always a beast of its own, and will never be the same as what's in your head.. at some point, you have to let it have a life of its own. Still, I cut a lot of corners, edited and recorded as much as I could at home to save on studio time, learned a lot of skills, negotiated with a lot of people. I really came out of my shell and fought my illness tooth and nail to make this happen.

The quality and the outcome pleases me at times and disgusts me at other times - but it is not what's important - because I know I did the absolute best with the circumstance i was given. The fact that I lost more money than I made, that I had to quit music afterwards due to financial reasons and resurgence of more symptoms, that there are problems with the album - all of that is irrelevant. What means something is that I reclaimed myself. That I fought the odds... that I didn't let the world take _me_ away from me. 

Now I am venturing into writing, which I am not nearly as "natural" at as music, but I have the confidence that nothing can stop me; that I will beat the odds senseless when it comes to expressing myself. This is what makes me me. The illness, or the world, can take my hair, my voice, my memory, it can make me nauseous, give me high fevers, make me unable to walk or move sometimes - but if it wants my passion, it's going to have to kill me. And any time I start to hate myself and feel like I'm lazy, like I'm not fighting hard enough, like why do I bother trying so hard to survive all of this, like I'm horrible and selfish and nobody could ever love me... I remember that at least once in my life, I stood for something greater than myself. And several people with disabilities or life challenges told me that it inspired them to pick up their craft again. You know this of course.  It means the world to me - it means so much more than "you're a good musician" or any of that surface stuff. Yes, I tried my best; but what matters to me is that I did not listen to admonitions about my voice, people telling me to "get a real singer," sound guys making fun of me, people telling me I'd make more money if I sold my songs to a pop band, etc. I expressed myself. I stayed true to myself and stood for something. When that is recognized by people who are inspired by it, I know my life is not a total waste. I no longer feel like I don't deserve to be here; like I'm just a burden, ugly inside and out. That is the one thing that makes me feel good about surviving... because it's more than surviving; it's _living_.




You made my day because you see it. You honed in on what really matters about me, at least, and perhaps other 4s too. That makes me feel _seen_, which is what I want more than anything. You have made my day many times for this same reason. Because you understand what is meaningful about my struggle, my tragedies, and my will to express myself throughout. Thank you.


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## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

BlueChristmas06 said:


> I thought of another analogy. 4s are kind of like birds. Some people don't notice them, some people are annoyed by their song early in the morning, some people like hearing birds. But birds travel vast distances, some fly south in the winter, others stay. In the same way, 4s traverse the emotional distances others would be afraid of. Some go towards more hospital places emotionally, others stay and experience the winter of their longing.
> 
> I see 4s like wounded birds in a sense. With nurturing, with love, with reassurance, they will fly again, they will sing again. It is so majestic to see a bird in flight, whether in hunt or simply gliding, they are beautiful to watch. To hear them sing is a joy. The worst thing one could ever to do a bird is to clip it's wings, to cage them, to take the song out of them, and often times I feel like that's what the world does to 4s. Maybe in childhood or adolescence, maybe later in life, but they always remember flight and song, they always have that yearning for it. The beauty of 4s is seeing them take flight again after being caged, to have the will to sing with clipped wings.


Van Gogh was totally a 4: 155 (154, 133): To Theo van Gogh. Cuesmes, between about Tuesday, 22 and Thursday, 24 June 1880. - Vincent van Gogh Letters

In the springtime a bird in a cage knows very well that there’s something he’d be good for; he feels very clearly that there’s something to be done but he can’t do it; what it is he can’t clearly remember, and he has vague ideas and says to himself, ‘the others are building their nests and making their little ones and raising the brood’, and he bangs his head against the bars of his cage. And then the cage stays there and the bird is mad with suffering. ‘Look, there’s an idler’, says another passing bird — that fellow’s a sort of man of leisure. And yet the prisoner lives and doesn’t die; nothing of what’s going on within shows outside, he’s in good health, he’s rather cheerful in the sunshine. But then comes the season of migration. A bout of melancholy — but, say the children who look after him, he’s got everything that he needs in his cage, after all — but he looks at the sky outside, heavy with storm clouds, and within himself feels a rebellion against fate. I’m in a cage, I’m in a cage, and so I lack for nothing, you fools! Me, I have everything I need! Ah, for pity’s sake, freedom, to be a bird like other birds! 

An idle man like that resembles an idle bird like that.

And it’s often impossible for men to do anything, prisoners in I don’t know what kind of horrible, horrible, very horrible cage. There is also, I know, release, belated release. A reputation ruined rightly or wrongly, poverty, inevitability of circumstances, misfortune; that creates prisoners.

You may not always be able to say what it is that confines, that immures, that seems to bury, and yet you feel I know not what bars, I know not what gates — walls.

Is all that imaginary, a fantasy? I don’t think so; and then you ask yourself, Dear God, is this for long, is this for ever, is this for eternity?

You know, what makes the prison disappear is every deep, serious attachment. *To be friends, to be brothers, to love; that opens the prison through sovereign power, through a most powerful spell.* But he who doesn’t have that remains in death. But where sympathy springs up again, life springs up again.

And the prison is sometimes called Prejudice, misunderstanding, fatal ignorance of this or that, mistrust, false shame.


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## No_this_is_patrick (Jun 27, 2016)

4s are not appealing at all. I'm not sure why people want to be a four so bad. That's what I wanted to say at least. Now that I think about it, I've been romantically involved with a few 4s. They all ended badly probably directly related to them being 4s, but they were very interesting. I don't think I'd ever date one again though. I've learned my lesson. My sister is married to a 4 actually. He's a real chore, though infinitely interesting to talk to.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

No_this_is_patrick said:


> 4s are not appealing at all. I'm not sure why people want to be a four so bad. That's what I wanted to say at least. Now that I think about it, I've been romantically involved with a few 4s. They all ended badly probably directly related to them being 4s, but they were very interesting. I don't think I'd ever date one again though. I've learned my lesson. My sister is married to a 4 actually. He's a real chore, though infinitely interesting to talk to.


I always figured triple-positive-outlook types would get sick of me real fast. But that's ok because the feeling is mutual. :ninja:


I don't mean that as an insult to you, I'm just saying that is how it pans out in my life. People with positive-outlook fixes (especially all three of them) have a tendency to avoid, escape or shrug off problems whereas I prefer to dissect them and wear flaws on my sleeve. Of course, mature people who are 4s or positive outlook types will have better balance, so it's more like I won't get along with unhealthy positive outlook tri-types when I am unhealthy, but if we're both better balanced then it's ok.



I do know two people who are triple-positive and awesome and we adore each other even if sometimes there are clashes. But as long as someone can take some heat - and deal with reality - we're cool.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

About dealing with problems, I notice them but usually tend to shove them away if I don't feel ready for handling them. I'm afraid of being overwhelmed by them and ending in a worse circumstance, more now that I have real problems dealing with anxiety and being overload by stuff makes it way worse. This is very true when people ask me to do things that are quite unpleasant for me, like dealing with relatives that I know that they don't get me or that have so many problems that seeing it is depressing as hell. Dunno what this says about my tritype, but at least I think that I have a 4 fix so weird stuff happens.


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## NylonSmiles (Sep 19, 2012)

No_this_is_patrick said:


> 4s are not appealing at all. I'm not sure why people want to be a four so bad. That's what I wanted to say at least. Now that I think about it, I've been romantically involved with a few 4s. They all ended badly probably directly related to them being 4s, but they were very interesting. I don't think I'd ever date one again though. I've learned my lesson. My sister is married to a 4 actually. He's a real chore, though infinitely interesting to talk to.


Tis a rare feat to be "very interesting" yet not appealing at all!


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## No_this_is_patrick (Jun 27, 2016)

NylonSmiles said:


> Tis a rare feat to be "very interesting" yet not appealing at all!


XD fours pull it off! No offense though. Like @Animal said, I probably have a lower tolerance to negativity than most as I am triple positive. My brother in law is a sx 4(16) and he is like the most moody, hateful, mopey, demanding, passive aggressive person I've ever met. That being said, he was once one of my closest friends. I like him but have no idea how my sister can be around him all the time. She's 964 though. They are both artists and introverts and she has endless patience. There was a time when I was a sucker for 4 chicks. We could talk and talk and we were so different it was exciting, but eventually they'd call me an emotionless robot and I'd find out they were lying to me to add drama and I never take the bait because I'm just too chill. 

So yeah, 4s don't tend to like me either. XD


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

Everything.



But only if they're an @Animal ...


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## Nothing1 (Jan 22, 2014)

The 9 in my life "claims" to like me because:


Of the drama I bring into his otherwise boring ass existence.
I force him to create outside his classical training.
He says that--after almost a decade--he still can't figure me out (he also doesn't try imo).
I inspire him to do things
He finds my helplessness/uselessness mixed with resourcefulness and strength interesting
Sex


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

4's interest me greatly. 

A 4 has the power to stand up to me and say "no" when needed, and mean it.

they SCREAM their feelings and emotions loud enough even I can hear them. 

They are often honest about their feelings, and direct. 

They often have an agenda, and know it, and know what they where they want to head, and they are sometimes willing to accept help. 

Many are pretty good at loving people.


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## inabox (Oct 3, 2015)

Well, personally, for me, almost all of the people in my life whom I have been the closest to and whose opinion I valued the most, have been 4 fixers. I don't think that's a coincidence though. Fours, average to healthy range, are what I believe the most honest of the heart types. They have a deep self awareness and when healthy, they are honest with themselves about that which they see in others. They'll love you but they won't bullshit you. They're usually not the types to have an inflated sense of self.

Contrast that with some of the 2 or 3 fixers, I've seen, they'll lie, manipulate and deceive to maintain their image of success (not saying 4s can't do these but with 2s and 3s I find it's common). 4s, I think, sooner or later, realize the image is a lie and even if they want to maintain their image of uniqueness, they'll at least acknowledge it at some point. 3s seek glory and some will present something false to maintain the glorious image; certain 2s will say or do what they have to maintain power over others. 4s are more chill in that respect; they don't seek to dominate you and at their healthier levels, are more chill about the idea of success.


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