# ESFP or ENFP?



## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

I thought I was an ENFP, then I was sure I was an ESFP, now I don't know anymore so I'm doing a questionnaire again :tongue:

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
I'm not sure whether I'm a sensor or an intuitive, I know that people say it's all about the functions and it shouldn't be this unclear, but I'm not really good at reading the functions' descriptions and applying them to myself, also all the tests say that my Se is equally developed as my Ne and Si and Ni are my least used functions, so maybe I'm seriously messed up and have no idea about this.. I'm unsure about all this because I seem to display traits of both sensors and intuitives. I've been thinking recently about what is "natural" for me because I can't really decipher myself. I do have a tendency to daydream, to wander off and over-think stuff but I don't like this. I often have to pull myself away from my thoughts and tell my mind to shut up and actually focus on what's happening around me. And the thing is that this whole "living in the moment" thing feels good to me and I really feel like I'm at my best when I'm taking everything at face value and just going with the flow, but I can't really say that that's what's natural for me.

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
Happiness is the most important thing for me. I want to be happy with my life and do what I want to do and what makes me feel good. I "yearn" for relationships and interaction because that's what I really value and people in general make me happy. I'd say I yearn for harmony but also excitement because I get bored quickly.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.
I can't pinpoint anything concrete but I feel at my finest when I'm around people, I'm doing things, I'm feeling confident, I'm seizing the opportunities around me, I do what my heart tells me to do and I don't feel bound by any fears or restrictions.

4) What makes you feel inferior?
Privileged people.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
When I have to make a decision I try to look at it from all points of view, I ask people for advice, but in the end I do what feels right.

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
I like to do everything right and usually stick by the rules if I don't have a problem with them but also put a little personal twist, put some "personality" into whatever I'm doing. Yes, I do like to have control of the outcome.

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?
I have a lot of fun when I'm with my friends. I'm not really fussy about that.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)
Definitely being hands on. 

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?
Not very much. I can be organized when I want to but it always annoys me when I have to be structured and do everything by the book. 

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
I think I do both?

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?
I think I do both here too. But I think it's more important for me to be myself.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
It depends on the situation. When I'm in a one-on-one conversation I usually speak before thinking because I don't like silence so there's not much time to think. In group discussions there's always someone speaking so you have time to think through what you want to say, but I don't overdo that.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
My first instinct is to know as much as possible about what I'm about to do but usually I just say to myself "ok mind shut up I don't want to listen to you" and I jump straight away :tongue: And actions definitely speak louder than words!

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
Go out with my friends. I can watch the show tomorrow.

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
I'm overly sensitive and the littlest things can make my cry, I kind of back out and talk much less and keep thinking about the thing that stresses me out over and over again.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?
I don't like people who are inflexible and uptight. I'm not that iffy about rules but when someone always has to do things the way you're supposed to do them it bugs me especially when I see it could be done better with slightly bypassing the rules. Also people who have no imagination. It's fun to talk about weird stuff every once in a while.

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?
I like talking about things we have in common. It's exciting when we're both passionate about something and we can talk about it for hours.

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life
I'm not sure..

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?
They perceive me as someone very random and silly. I've also been told that I'm straightforward and forgiving. People who don't know me that well may think that I'm slightly ditzy and flighty and that I can't talk about serious things, which is untrue. My friends would never say that I'm uptight or cold.

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing? 
Meet up with some people, go for a coffee or something, watch an episode or two of a TV show, read through some message boards, stuff like that.


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## YLTO (May 23, 2013)

Based on Q16, Q17, Q20, face expression and the way you dress in the avatar , I could conclude that you're a legit ENFP.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

Do you ever feel distracted, or feel like you have so many thoughts racing in your head that it's hard for you to focus in on one?

Not liking the fact that you have a tendency to wander off and daydream doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to be an ENFP. There are times when I hate that I do this, as well.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

YLTO said:


> Based on Q16, Q17, Q20, face expression and the way you dress in the avatar , I could conclude that you're a legit ENFP.


The girl in the avatar is not me, but I'd risk saying that if I'd be likely to wear the clothes she's wearing, that could be a pointer.



Violator Rose said:


> Do you ever feel distracted, or feel like you have so many thoughts racing in your head that it's hard for you to focus in on one?
> 
> Not liking the fact that you have a tendency to wander off and daydream doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to be an ENFP. There are times when I hate that I do this, as well.


All the time really. My mind never shuts up and it's hard to keep up with it.

Have you ever had a period in your life when you kind of tried to make yourself more sensor-ish because you were tired of the intuitive craziness?


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## Randomasd (Aug 29, 2013)

My guess is ENFP.



pond said:


> 15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
> I'm overly sensitive and the littlest things can make my cry, I kind of back out and talk much less and keep thinking about the thing that stresses me out over and over again.


This looks like inferior Si to me. 

I know ESFP when they are stressed and in their inferior function Ni, they try to interpret things from the perspectives of other people and that perception is way off. And they think more about a catastrophic and sad future.


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## sinshred (Dec 1, 2013)

Didn't see strong Ne at you. 
ESFP.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Randomasd said:


> My guess is ENFP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, today I was actually reading some bits from 'Was That Really Me?' about the way inferior functions influence us when we're out of character and the description of inferior Si was definitely the most familiar. It's funny though cause up to now I've been pretty sure that I don't use Si. But could that be because I'm still young and not fully developed and that's why so far Si only reveals itself in times of stress?


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

sinshred said:


> Didn't see strong Ne at you.
> ESFP.


Oh no, I already thought that I was getting close to settling on ENFP! :tongue:


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

pond said:


> All the time really. My mind never shuts up and it's hard to keep up with it.
> 
> Have you ever had a period in your life when you kind of tried to make yourself more sensor-ish because you were tired of the intuitive craziness?


Definitely sounds like dominant Ne to me. Do you ever feel like you have one thought, that somehow relates to a different thought, which in turn makes you think of a different thought? Do you feel like your ideas branch off of one idea, sort of like how a tree starts at the trunk, and ends up in different branches?

This is how I think. I might start thinking of cars, and all of a sudden, cars reminds me of a planes, because I drive in lots of cars but don't fly in many planes. Then I might start thinking of clouds, because planes go through clouds. Then I might think of guitars, because I saw a cloud shaped like a guitar that one day. Then all of a sudden, I remember that I learned how to play a song on the guitar by the band The Cars, and I remember, that just a few minutes ago, I was thinking about cars, and I sometimes wonder why my mind branches off the way it does. :tongue:

Also yes. There has been a point in my life when I tried to embody other personality types (especially sensor types) because I thought that being intuitive all the time was just too much to handle. I also read somewhere that this is especially common of ENFPs.

If this is the case for you, I believe you are ENFP. Of course, you don't have to just put up with Ne all the time. The healthiest ENFPs develop their Fi, Te, and Si as well. Of course, it can be draining to use these functions and ignore Ne, so try to have a healthy balance of all four functions


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

sinshred said:


> Didn't see strong Ne at you.
> ESFP.


Then I question your definition and understanding of Ne, as the OP is so full of Ne it makes my brain hurt when I read it.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> Definitely sounds like dominant Ne to me. Do you ever feel like you have one thought, that somehow relates to a different thought, which in turn makes you think of a different thought? Do you feel like your ideas branch off of one idea, sort of like how a tree starts at the trunk, and ends up in different branches?
> 
> This is how I think. I might start thinking of cars, and all of a sudden, cars reminds me of a planes, because I drive in lots of cars but don't fly in many planes. Then I might start thinking of clouds, because planes go through clouds. Then I might think of guitars, because I saw a cloud shaped like a guitar that one day. Then all of a sudden, I remember that I learned how to play a song on the guitar by the band The Cars, and I remember, that just a few minutes ago, I was thinking about cars, and I sometimes wonder why my mind branches off the way it does. :tongue:
> 
> ...


Yes! Sometimes I'm just like 'How the hell did I think of this?!' Other people notice that too. Recently a friend told me that my brain terrifies her. That was just lovely.

Glad I'm not the only one! It's kind of annoying really, I always want to be so many things at once and end up confusing myself. 



ephemereality said:


> Then I question your definition and understanding of Ne, as the OP is so full of Ne it makes my brain hurt when I read it.


Oh wow, for some reason this made me really happy :kitteh:


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## Randomasd (Aug 29, 2013)

pond said:


> But could that be because I'm still young and not fully developed and that's why so far Si only reveals itself in times of stress?


Yes! I can relate because I have Si too in my tertiary or inferior (not sure of my own type).

And when you say you daydream and have to force yourself to focus, sounds very Ne.


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## sinshred (Dec 1, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> Then I question your definition and understanding of Ne, as the OP is so full of Ne it makes my brain hurt when I read it.


Are you dumb? Watch my words carefully before you make comment!

I didnt said she didnt have Ne at all, i just said didnt have _strong_ Ne.

Look at these stuffs which makes me think she have more strong Se.

4) What makes you feel inferior?
*Privileged people.*

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
I like to do everything right and usually stick by the rules if I don't have a problem with them but also put a little personal twist, put some "personality" into whatever I'm doing. Yes, I do like to have control of the outcome.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
*My first instinct is to know as much as possible about what I'm about to do but usually I just say to myself "ok mind shut up I don't want to listen to you" and I jump straight away And actions definitely speak louder than words!*

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
*Meet up with some people, go for a coffee or something, watch an episode or two of a TV show, read through some message boards, stuff like that.*


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

sinshred said:


> Are you dumb? Watch my words carefully before you make comment!
> 
> I didnt said she didnt have Ne at all, i just said didnt have _strong_ Ne.


And I say she has very strong Ne that makes any supposed Se non-existent. 



> Look at these stuffs which makes me think she have more strong Se.
> 
> 4) What makes you feel inferior?
> *Privileged people.*


Nothing to do with Se. 



> 6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
> I like to do everything right and usually stick by the rules if I don't have a problem with them but also put a little personal twist, put some "personality" into whatever I'm doing. Yes, I do like to have control of the outcome.


Sounds more Fi if anything. 



> 13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
> *My first instinct is to know as much as possible about what I'm about to do but usually I just say to myself "ok mind shut up I don't want to listen to you" and I jump straight away And actions definitely speak louder than words!*


Doesn't really suggest anything useful here. Perhaps in an enneagram-sense, but cognitive sense not so much, though it could point more towards Si in the first sentence in a need to know a sufficient amount about the situation. 



> 20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
> *Meet up with some people, go for a coffee or something, watch an episode or two of a TV show, read through some message boards, stuff like that.*


Because every human on this planet with access to coffee, tv and the internet hasn't done this... This is not an indicator of anything in terms of type. It's human behavior.


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## sinshred (Dec 1, 2013)

I think your opinions are not worthy to be debated 
I remember you sir 

I stick to my opinion that she is an ESFP.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

LOL @sinshred
@pond, I'm almost completely certain you are ENFP. Actions speaking louder than words has nothing to do with Ne or Se. Sometimes this is the case for me, as well, and I know I'm not a Se Dom. Probably a result of inferior Si.

I like to also stick to rules, if they make sense to me and help me get a project done efficiently. ENFPs have Te and Si which can make us sometimes want to follow rules. However, in most cases, ENFPs will break or bend rules that they don't agree with. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean that ENFPs never follow rules. We'd all be in jail if that were the case 

Sent from my HTCPO881 Sprint using Tapatalk


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Ha. I tie-broke the polls at ENFP. :kitteh:


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

For what it is worth, I think ESFP. 

I'll lead with a somewhat weak, but I think meaningful point. When someone says often, 'because he/she/it/they are so much like me..' that is leaning on S... if it feels dynamic, then consider Se. Ne DOMINANT is going to focus on theory and detach from the sensory. 

I am also highly suspicious of a lot of talk about being an intuitive but not much 'archetypal' talk that is removed from what is. 

ESFP will say something like, "My friends think I am such an intuitive. Does that fit back into the theory?". That is Se/Te. Data, and external consensus judgment.

ENFP will say, "We were talking about what Ne is. How Ne can be likened to <>. So, yeah, Ne. I am an Ne." 

And in the case of the ESFP.. you think, are you sure that is really reflective of the theory?
And in the case of the ENFP.. you think, who is 'we'? When did this conversation happen?

The answer in both cases? "Oh, hell, I don't know".


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> ESFP will say something like, "My friends think I am such an intuitive. Does that fit back into the theory?". That is Se/Te. Data, and external consensus judgment.


Hold your horses there. I've seen Fe types do this the most. Not Se types. Se types will state the nature of things. It's a duck. It quacks. It got white feathers. 

Let's start with the introduction:



> I'm not sure whether I'm a sensor or an intuitive, I know that people say it's all about the functions and it shouldn't be this unclear, but I'm not really good at reading the functions' descriptions and applying them to myself,


This is definitely not Se in my opinion. This kind of uncertainty from an Se type? Se types will state what things are, especially with Te. There is no more direct method of communication than SeTe. Furthermore, this uncertainty doesn't seem to pertain to Ni but Ne in some way. Look at how it suggests a lot of external options "I am not sure what I could be because I see I could be both or either or none or all of them?" That's Ne. Not Se. 

Like take this guy:






Look at how direct his manner of speech is: "What is this myth?!" The OP is anything but direct in communication. Hence the headache from reading it.

For clarification, I am very certain that Sky is an ESFP.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> This is definitely not Se in my opinion. This kind of uncertainty from an Se type? Se types will state what things are, especially with Te. There is no more direct method of communication than SeTe. Furthermore, this uncertainty doesn't seem to pertain to Ni but Ne in some way. Look at how it suggests a lot of external options "I am not sure what I could be because I see I could be both or either or none or all of them?" That's Ne. Not Se.


I disagree with this. yes, without enough data an Se will be uncertain. Especially Se/Te. Especially in the realm of concept. The problem here is that all of this exists in the conceptual, the archetypal. An Se dom will want/need to anchor it into sensory patterns to understand it... not that they can't understand the theory, but they aren't going to connect it to the real (ie, themselves) without sensory comparison and logical consensus. 

I introduced cognitive functions to an ENFP and an INFP and the conversation included 0 (rather, rare, deprioritized ... marginalized) sensory comparisons. They had only one type of question:

What is Ne? How is it different from Ni? Not how does it manifest differently (other than as a tool to render the concept), but what is it in the archetypal sense. What is the concept. 

We talked like this. Like you and I do. Ne is extraverted intuition, I said. Objective? Their brow tightens and they look off. "Objective?" they mouth, rolling it over... 

---

Objective meaning? They say. The meaning must be objective.. it must be self-evident?

Yes, it must reflect the environment. Ni is subjective, it must be perfect, whole.

Yes, he says, that's my wife (ENFJ) her vision must be singular - that's important to her. It has to be a singular vision. See one side, the right side, perfectly. Not with me. I have to see both sides. Morality is on both sides. I see. Is that what you mean by objective?

----

The conversation existed outside of the sensory. All in the idea of it. The DOMINANT N! Of course they will speak and think like this. Like @_Word Dispenser_ does. 
@_pond_ is trying to divine the answer from the milieu. Sensory comparisons. Trying to get it right, not gathering concept but gathering data to build an internal conceptualization, which is not easy for her to do. When she gets it, it will be brilliant, but she isn't using Ne to get there.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

ephemereality said:


> For clarification, I am very certain that Sky is an ESFP.


That's exactly what I thought too. Though he could be an ENTJ. Meh~


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> I disagree with this. yes, without enough data an Se will be uncertain. Especially Se/Te. Especially in the realm of concept. The problem here is that all of this exists in the conceptual, the archetypal. An Se dom will want/need to anchor it into sensory patterns to understand it... not that they can't understand the theory, but they aren't going to connect it to the real (ie, themselves) without sensory comparison and logical consensus.


I agree in theory but not in practicality. What you describe isn't applicable on the OP in my opinion. An ESFP isn't going to reach out for options in this way "I could be XYZ and then ABC too???" that's not what Se is, and Se will if anything shy against this the most. An Se type if uncertain about reality, will be only be more inclined to state that which they know with certainty just like any sensor, it's a black cat. What else would it be but a black cat? 



> I introduced cognitive functions to an ENFP and an INFP and the conversation included 0 (rather, rare, deprioritized ... marginalized) sensory comparisons. They had only one type of question:
> 
> What is Ne? How is it different from Ni? Not how does it manifest differently (other than as a tool to render the concept), but what is it in the archetypal sense. What is the concept.
> 
> We talked like this. Like you and I do. Ne is extraverted intuition, I said. Objective? Their brow tightens and they look off. "Objective?" they mouth, rolling it over...


I think it's unfair to assume that every Ne type must be as smart as your friends. Ability to think and rationalize in a general sense is not something typical of Ne or even intuition in itself since Ne is simply a specific mode of perception, something I think the OP expresses very well. There are dumb people out there, NTs too, who don't know wtf theory is at all, or have zero interest in theory or to conceptualize. It doesn't mean they aren't Ns. That's just what they are naturally inclined to think about.


> ---
> 
> Objective meaning? They say. The meaning must be objective.. it must be self-evident?
> 
> ...


I really fail to see this. If you are going to argue a sensor type, argue Si ego, not Se. Do you even see how different the OP is to Sky in terms of communication and thought? If an ESFP, or any feeler for the matter, feels uncertain and unsure about the realms of thinking, they will simply try to assess their logic more (look, I can be logical too!) or they will simply give up and admit their utter failure before even trying. Just like I'll do the same with anything sensation. 

I mean, I just gave you some examples of ESFP lyrics by RAtM earlier today. You clearly can't see how the self-expression is different? How there is more focus on action, on acting itself, to move, to push, to yield physical results? The OP does anything than. Needs to shut up mind before ability to act? That's not Se. Se types even when very intelligent, are very grounded in reality as they experience it and know exactly how to act in order to achieve the results they seek in the physical. 

Statements like these is something I think an ESFP would feel uncomfortable with:



> When I have to make a decision I try to look at it from all points of view, I ask people for advice, but in the end I do what feels right.


Consider options and all points of views? What? Why should I care unless it's to get me what I want which I already _know_? An ESFP is going to consider the options relevant and valid for the situation due to Ni subjective sorting. All options are definitely not relevant. Only those that are important to the situation right here right now.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

ephemereality said:


> Statements like these is something I think an ESFP would feel uncomfortable with:
> 
> Consider options and all points of views? What? Why should I care unless it's to get me what I want which I already _know_?


This doesn't make sense because Se, like Ne, is an induction mechanism. Pe doesn't close doors. Simply stating something is what it is is not induction. Se does what Ne does, mechanically, and sends out to all sensory perceptions for something that relates in an irrational pattern. This is why Se types can be and are so often 'random'. That is the mechanism of Pe. The only difference between Ne and Se is that Ne reaches out into archetypal patterns and Se reaches out into sensory patterns, both objectively.

So, the key is what she means by 'perspectives'. For an Se, it's hearing the other side of the story. For Ne, it's imagining the other perspective. One inducts perspective in the form of data, the other inducts a new archetype which it imagines to reflect the other side. The Se will be true to the reality of the situation at the expense of the archetype (the ideal, deprioritized concept patterning) and the Ne will be true to the archetype at the expense of accurate applicability (deprioritized sensory patterning). 

To the Ne you will say: "That is a great ideal, but what does it have to do specifically with this?"
To the Se you will say: "You nailed the realities of the situation, but isn't there a broader ideal here?"

---

EDIT: I agree only somewhat on the point of N and theory. I have met people I felt were N and who apparently didn't go in with the conceptual aspect, but in those cases it was only auxiliary N. I have not encountered nor could I imagine an Ne dom who didn't dominantly prioritize concept. That makes no sense so we clearly have different views of what Ne entails. 

I agree that intelligence isn't type, but crap concept is still concept. There are ENxPs who come on this forum all the time with hairbrained theories that I think are dumb as rocks, but they are still operating in the conceptual arena. Just badly.
@_pond_ is not that. She isn't a dumb intuitive. I don't mean that to be all smiles and happy at the expense of logic. I mean, logically, she is not operating - intelligently or unintelligently - in the concept realm. She is operating in the realm of observable stuff. Her reasoning for feeling as an intuitive is based on her behavior... how she is observed. That she is random, that she is all over the place. That is just Pe. Is it based on stuff you could touch or picture? Or stuff that is just idea, that you couldn't touch or picture.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> This doesn't make sense because Se, like Ne, is an induction mechanism. Pe doesn't close doors. Simply stating something is what it is is not induction.


Yes, but Se can only see the sensory as it wants to maximize sensory experience. You are thinking of Se as if it were Ne. The socionics definition of Se is quite good to convey what I am trying to express: 

Extroverted sensing(Redirected from Se)
*Extroverted sensing* () is an extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called *Se*, *F*, *volitional sensing*, or *black sensing*.
 includes the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required.
Types that value  are much more comfortable with direct behavior aimed at making an immediate impact. This may at times be perceived as abrasive, particularly by types who do not value . There is usually a competitive edge to this style of group interaction, resulting in a more intense atmosphere than that of introverted sensing ()-valuing quadras. They appreciate contemplating possibilities only if they feel like they stand to gain something from it, or it has a perceived potential impact on "the real world".
Unlike , which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is),  is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.

Contents [hide]​

1 as a base (1st) function (SLE and SEE)
2 as a creative (2nd) function (LSI and ESI)
3 as a role (3rd) function (ILE and IEE)
4 as a vulnerable (4th) function (LII and EII)
5 as a suggestive (5th) function (IEI and ILI)
6 as a mobilizing (6th) function (EIE and LIE)
7 as an ignoring (7th) function (SEI and SLI)
8 as a demonstrative (8th) function (ESE and LSE)
9 See also

 as a base (1st) function (SLE and SEE)The individual feels at home among people who are actively doing something and interacting with each other directly (visibly), and is able to organize people, move them around as necessary, and guide them in achieving a specific goal. He or she likes obedience and even subservience in others, since it allows him to "make things happen" more effectively.
He is keenly aware of territorial conflicts and confrontational behavior occurring around him. He very quickly becomes confrontational when others try to make him move or get him to do something in an aggressive or confrontational way. He quickly recognizes when people are trying to get each other to do something or are trying to organize him for some purpose. He also spontaneously uses aggression to achieve his own goals.
He wants to make all decisions himself about what he will do, wear, eat, look like, etc., and resents any attempts by others to make these decisions for him. However, he is willing to make use of other peoples' ideas, advice, and creativity, as long as he plays the most visible role.
He enjoys testing his will in challenging situations and views life as a sort of obstacle course, full of adversity and challenges, that must be weathered and conquered.
 as a creative (2nd) function (LSI and ESI)The individual takes direct action to accomplish his goals and desires in the face of external obstacles, and also the interests of his close friends, family, or associates. This may involve prodding others to take necessary action, deliberately applying pressure in specific situations, or abruptly taking on an organizational role. The individual does not generally seek out confrontation, but he is also not afraid of it.
He takes his responsibilities seriously and tends to perform them diligently and with care. He expects the same of others.


Because Se comes with Ni, that is a subjective intuitive function, means that Ni will stick to N options that seems relevant or subjectively important to the individual. It will have the same inhibiting mechanism and help the Se type to sort out what course of action is the most desirable like Si would for Ne. 



> Se does what Ne does, mechanically, and sends out to all sensory perceptions for something that relates in an irrational pattern. This is why Se types can be and are so often 'random'. That is the mechanism of Pe. The only difference between Ne and Se is that Ne reaches out into archetypal patterns and Se reaches out into sensory patterns, both objectively.


Random, what? I don't think you and I understand that the same. 



> So, the key is what she means by 'perspectives'. For an Se, it's hearing the other side of the story.


Huh? Actually, no, not necessarily. I would say that's Fe or Ne. Se could equally say, "Why do I need to hear what you have to say when I know what happened because I was there?" 



> For Ne, it's imagining the other perspective.


Equally applies to Ni. 



> One inducts perspective in the form of data, the other inducts a new archetype which it imagines to reflect the other side. The Se will be true to the reality of the situation at the expense of the archetype (the ideal, deprioritized concept patterning) and the Ne will be true to the archetype at the expense of accurate applicability (deprioritized sensory patterning).
> 
> To the Ne you will say: "That is a great ideal, but what does it have to do specifically with this?"
> To the Se you will say: "You nailed the realities of the situation, but isn't there a broader ideal here?"


I think you got something mixed up there. I think the Ne part is what Se would say, especially with Te (being concerned about external logical relevance, what's efficient, profitable) but the Se is what Ne would say. Personally. Consider this: I am thinking when I read the Se part you wrote here, "What broader perspective?" Though I am an inferior Se type, my Se is wont to say, "but there is only ONE reality, the ONE I just experienced". "Big picture" if you will, would be to spin that reality around just like you flick a light in a room on and off. Same room, different perception of the room. That's why Se needs Ni, because this is what Ni does. Se says, but it's a friggin' lamp, look at it! But I'll say, no, how can it be a lamp if you can't experience it? How do you know it's a lamp? There's a great video from the anime Samurai Champloo on Youtube about this. Pay attention to the character Mugen, the ESFP, and how reasons and behaves, and notice how Bundai (Se-Ni in some order) explains things to him:








> EDIT: I agree only somewhat on the point of N and theory. I have met people I felt were N and who apparently didn't go in with the conceptual aspect, but in those cases it was only auxiliary N. I have not encountered nor could I imagine an Ne dom who didn't dominantly prioritize concept. That makes no sense so we clearly have different views of what Ne entails.
> 
> 
> I agree that intelligence isn't type, but crap concept is still concept. There are ENxPs who come on this forum all the time with hairbrained theories that I think are dumb as rocks, but they are still operating in the conceptual arena. Just badly. @pond is not that. She isn't a dumb intuitive. I don't mean that to be all smiles and happy at the expense of logic. I mean, logically, she is not operating - intelligently or unintelligently - in the concept realm. She is operating in the realm of observable stuff. Her reasoning for feeling as an intuitive is based on her behavior... how she is observed. That she is random, that she is all over the place. That is just Pe. Is it based on stuff you could touch or picture? Or stuff that is just idea, that you couldn't touch or picture.


But I'm saying that depending on the person (and I am not suggesting pond is dumb btw, just saying that not everyone is going to be driven into that kind of thinking activity you are decribing you're friends to be doing) they may not always make it obvious because their thinking is more in the realms of experience itself, which does not necessarily make it less Ne by any means. Sometimes Ne can and will look a lot like Se too. I was almost inclined to think that What's This? video to be Se because see, Se _could_ do that (oomg look dem colors! so pretteh!) but the difference is that there is a naivety to it, like what is "seen" or experienced are not the colors themselves but the potential the colors present. Yet isn't he speaking about concrete things: "What's this, they're hanging a mistletoe?" or "Oh look, there's no monster underneath!" (while looking under the bed).


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

sinshred said:


> I think your opinions are not worthy to be debated
> I remember you sir
> 
> I stick to my opinion that she is an ESFP.


Hmm, if you disagree you could explain why those things you quotes you quoted sounds Se and not Ne? That could be constructive.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

@_ephemereality_ - this speaks to what I see as a problem with how Se is represented on these forums. It makes zero sense that Se can only operate on what it sees. None. That means that every fiction ever is done by N types. Every single fiction book ever is N. Nonsense. Reformulating, irrationally, sensory patterns is the very concept of Se. It has to be. 

You want to see Se randomness? Watch SNL. I am sure there are N types there, but stuff like SNL is all about SENSORY variance. Andy Samberg, Jimmy Fallon, both Se doms. They are so random:










Singing "A selfie with your skeleton", LOL, that's great! It's also not stating that what is, is.

I think that Ylvis, the 'what does the fox say?' guy is an Se-dom. The reason? Nothing of any of those things has anything to do with archetypal patterns. It's about STUFF. Real stuff, pulled in from memory, from the moment, recombined because of the nature of Pe - being both irrational, and highly inductive of anything that patterns out, as it is. 

I was working with an Se-dom friend to make a movie about a guy who could summon the ghost of Lincoln, which he only uses to do menial tasks, which Lincoln isn't good at. 

That isn't Ne. It's sensory. It's Se. Se calls an apple an apple? That's ridiculous. Your eyes call an apple an apple. Se looks at an apple and says, "orange". That is sensory patterning.

EDIT: Also, I am confused about your response the 'To the Xe you'd say:" quotes. You think they are backwards? Reading what you wrote a few times, I think maybe you read them backwards or misread the lead in? The first is what one might say to (observe about) the Ne, that they had nailed the archetype but lacked good sensory patterning to sync up to the realities of the situation, the details as the Ne would call it. The second is the Se, that would get the data down right, but lack a larger perspective of the archetype. Surely, that is accurate.

EDIT EDIT:



> But I'm saying that depending on the person (and I am not suggesting pond is dumb btw, just saying that not everyone is going to be driven into that kind of thinking activity you are decribing you're friends to be doing) they may not always make it obvious because their thinking is more in the realms of experience itself, which does not necessarily make it less Ne by any means. Sometimes Ne can and will look a lot like Se too. I was almost inclined to think that What's This? video to be Se because see, Se _could do that (oomg look dem colors! so pretteh!) but the difference is that there is a naivety to it, like what is "seen" or experienced are not the colors themselves but the potential the colors present. Yet isn't he speaking about concrete things: "What's this, they're hanging a mistletoe?" or "Oh look, there's no monster underneath!" (while looking under the bed)._


This is perfect. This will get to the crux of it. Ne is interesting in the IDEA of what is there.. rather, what all this stuff means, what it could mean. What it could inspire, outside of the real. Se would be interesting in what is there. The sights, the sounds, the reality of it. Both are highly inductive, both yearn for variance. For the Ne, they AREN'T taking in the details.. they are taking in what it means. The Se will remember what they experienced... the Ne will remember what it represented.

Which is why I say that the eyes say an apple is an apple. Pe is inducting... both through the variance of what is seen with the eyes. The Se is pulling in data variance, the Ne is pulling archetype variance. The Se is watching the movie, the Ne is seeing it all in a new light... which is necessarily deprioritizing what is actually seen.

That is why Se is characterized as seeing things as they are. In reality, that is more of a side effect. It is more accurate to say that Ne ignores it than that Se is doing nothing but seeing it.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> @_ephemereality_ - this speaks to what I see as a problem with how Se is represented on these forums. It makes zero sense that Se can only operate on what it sees. None. That means that every fiction ever is done by N types. Every single fiction book ever is N. Nonsense. Reformulating, irrationally, sensory patterns is the very concept of Se. It has to be.


But imagination exists in a realm outside of function perspective. When an Se type imagines, they imagine that which can be actually sensed in a way. Not sure how to put it. You know Game of Thrones? I think George R. R. Martin is an Se type for example. It's very "what is" in terms of storytelling. The conflict that exists, it is that one and only conflict. Ne stories are more fantastical in contrast. 

I am not suggesting "see" literally. Replace it with experience. Se can only experience the what is. Even if that is reading a book and thinking about how it feels like to be on the battlefield in that very moment the main character slashes his sword against a great foe or when the woman fiercely kisses her lover goodbye. It's more of a visceral experience. I am not suggesting every writer is an N type, or that S cannot imagine or any of that. Se types, they will feel the slash of the blow, they will experience the swooning sound of the sword, they will hear the metals clash, see the blood gush from the wound. Do you notice how I am getting more visually detailed too? Not going into it in depth, but the holistic sensory experience of the situation. Hearing the wounded scream, the feeling of blood running over your face, the metallic taste in your mouth, the sweat in your palms, hearing the horses neigh. This is the kind of data Se takes in. If Se sees a black room, it experiences the totality of the blackness of that room. It does take in information in a very literal way. This becomes obvious when I discuss manga with my ESFP friend and I point out to her, look at this scene, it's rather erotic and powerful but in an implied way. Look at how the characters look, how he's angry, how the other character seems to be in such control. She doesn't notice the underlying message I am describing to her (why it's erotic), to her it's just that, a scene, a picture of two people. 

I know that Se is not about lacking imagination or being literal in that way. But does Se take in information literally? Yes, it does. That is not the same as an Se type being literal however, though they can come across as that if intuition is really weak, like Ygritte in this scene:








> You want to see Se randomness? Watch SNL. I am sure there are N types there, but stuff like SNL is all about SENSORY variance. Andy Samberg, Jimmy Fallon, both Se doms. They are so random:


I don't know dude. That doesn't strike me as Se random (though I still have issues seeing how Se can be random). Why can't that be Si? That stuff actually irks me out. You want an actual ESFP comedian? Well, there's Sky I already linked:






This isn't random to me at least. Not even close. And yes, it's humor and comedy but random? No. At least not to me. 



> Singing "A selfie with your skeleton", LOL, that's great! It's also not stating that what is, is.


In reference to what? 


> I think that Ylvis, the 'what does the fox say?' guy is an Se-dom. The reason? Nothing of any of those things has anything to do with archetypal patterns. It's about STUFF. Real stuff, pulled in from memory, from the moment, recombined because of the nature of Pe - being both irrational, and highly inductive of anything that patterns out, as it is.


Why can't Ylvis be ENFP? Like this guy:








> I was working with an Se-dom friend to make a movie about a guy who could summon the ghost of Lincoln, which he only uses to do menial tasks, which Lincoln isn't good at.
> 
> That isn't Ne. It's sensory. It's Se. Se calls an apple an apple? That's ridiculous. Your eyes call an apple an apple.


Eh, no. I see an apple. It's an apple. That's how simple it is. Maybe it's also orange or red in color. Then it's a red or orange apple. 



> Se looks at an apple and says, "orange". That is sensory patterning.


But the shape, form and nature of the object pertains to what the object is, how it's experienced. Color itself does not necessarily denote sensation. One could equally say, duh yeah, I can see it's orange because my eyes just told me. 



> EDIT: Also, I am confused about your response the 'To the Xe you'd say:" quotes. You think they are backwards? Reading what you wrote a few times, I think maybe you read them backwards or misread the lead in? The first is what one might say to (observe about) the Ne, that they had nailed the archetype but lacked good sensory patterning to sync up to the realities of the situation, the details as the Ne would call it. The second is the Se, that would get the data down right, but lack a larger perspective of the archetype. Surely, that is accurate.


No, if your intention was that Ne is what Ne is like, and Se is what Se is like. 



> EDIT EDIT:
> 
> This is perfect. This will get to the crux of it. Ne is interesting in the IDEA of what is there.. rather, what all this stuff means, what it could mean. What it could inspire, outside of the real. Se would be interesting in what is there. The sights, the sounds, the reality of it. Both are highly inductive, both yearn for variance. For the Ne, they AREN'T taking in the details.. they are taking in what it means. *The Se will remember what they experienced... the Ne will remember what it represented.*


The part in bold sounds kind of Si to me. Perhaps it's because I'm so sensory repressed in general but I can't think of how Se "remembers" more than well, that's an apple, that's a car, that stool is red etc.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Whoa. Kind of funny to see two people debating about how my brain works. Didn't clear up much though :tongue:


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

pond said:


> Whoa. Kind of funny to see two people debating about how my brain works. Didn't clear up much though :tongue:


*Passes popcorn* roud:


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

pond said:


> 5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
> When I have to make a decision I try to look at it from all points of view, I ask people for advice, but in the end I do what feels right.


I think you have just defined ExFP in 32 words.

EDIT: Been reading the great debate. Still don't know which I think your type is.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

@pond

An idea. Could you pick something that's really important to you and explain why it's important to you and how it relates to your life?


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

randomshoes said:


> @pond
> 
> An idea. Could you pick something that's really important to you and explain why it's important to you and how it relates to your life?







This is Fi though, which ESFPs and ENFPs have.....although I suppose it would be a good question to answer to determine if you are actually one of the two.



Also, if you can answer this question: When you walk into a new room for the very first time, what's the first thing you notice? What's the first thing on your mind?








Sent from my HTCPO881 Sprint using Tapatalk


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> This is Fi though, which ESFPs and ENFPs have.....although I suppose it would be a good question to answer to determine if you are actually one of the two.


I know, but the way she explains it would likely help me figure out her primary function, as will how her Fi values relate to her life. I asked that because we know she uses Fi and I want to see how she uses it, since it will ultimately be in service of her primary function.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

randomshoes said:


> @pond
> 
> An idea. Could you pick something that's really important to you and explain why it's important to you and how it relates to your life?


I feel pressured right now. I hate those kind of questions because I never have anything concrete in mind. But ok, I'll try. I'd say that people are really really important to me. It's kind of like.. I think a single person can't really exist without people. Because they influence you and define who you are. Everyone you've ever met somehow rubs off on you and leaves a tiny little piece of themselves in you? And that's why it's so important to have people around us because not only we can have a good time with them but we also learn a lot about ourselves. All the people I know are so precious to me because they make me who I am and even though I do have a strong sense of self and I know I'm my own person I also know that I would be someone completely different if I had different people around me.

Mum called me and I lost my plot. Does that even answer your question? I feel like it doesn't. Sorry.



Violator Rose said:


> This is Fi though, which ESFPs and ENFPs have.....although I suppose it would be a good question to answer to determine if you are actually one of the two.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Whether it's dark or bright. Whether I like it in there or not. Whether it feels safe and cosy or cold. I'm not sure though if it comes from some inner vibe-picking or if it's simply quickly looking at the contents of the room and forming an opinion.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

pond said:


> Whether it's dark or bright. Whether I like it in there or not. Whether it feels safe and cosy or cold. I'm not sure though if it comes from some inner vibe-picking or if it's simply quickly looking at the contents of the room and forming an opinion.


Do you tend to notice everything when you walk into a new room for the first time? Do you tend to miss rather obvious things that most people would notice?

For example, in one of my old apartments, it took me a year to notice that we had a fireplace in the apartment, simply because we never used it! One day I saw it and I was like ".....we have a fireplace??" and my mom looked at me like I was insane :tongue:


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> Do you tend to notice everything when you walk into a new room for the first time? Do you tend to miss rather obvious things that most people would notice?
> 
> For example, in one of my old apartments, it took me a year to notice that we had a fireplace in the apartment, simply because we never used it! One day I saw it and I was like ".....we have a fireplace??" and my mom looked at me like I was insane :tongue:


It doesn't happen all the time but yeah, I can recall that happening a couple times. I know something like that happened a couple days ago but I can't remember what that was. It took me over a year though to notice one building that I pass twice a day on my way to school..

Although I do realize immediately when something changes its place, would that be Si?


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

pond said:


> It doesn't happen all the time but yeah, I can recall that happening a couple times. I know something like that happened a couple days ago but I can't remember what that was. It took me over a year though to notice one building that I pass twice a day on my way to school..
> 
> Although I do realize immediately when something changes its place, would that be Si?


Yup, that's Si. For example, I have a female friend who used to never wear makeup, until one day, she decided to wear some eyeliner, and I noticed that right away.

Being an Ne-dom doesn't mean we don't ever notice things using our senses, because we do. We just do it differently than Se-doms. (And less frequently ^^)


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## Xenograft (Jul 1, 2013)

I think ENFP.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

pond said:


> I feel pressured right now. I hate those kind of questions because I never have anything concrete in mind.


Oh no! I didn't mean to stress you out!



> But ok, I'll try. I'd say that people are really really important to me. It's kind of like.. I think a single person can't really exist without people. Because they influence you and define who you are. Everyone you've ever met somehow rubs off on you and leaves a tiny little piece of themselves in you? And that's why it's so important to have people around us because not only we can have a good time with them but we also learn a lot about ourselves. All the people I know are so precious to me because they make me who I am and even though I do have a strong sense of self and I know I'm my own person I also know that I would be someone completely different if I had different people around me.


I'm leaning ESFP. The feeling of picking up something from everyone around you seems very Se, and "I know I'm my own person" is definitely Fi. And of course you answered the question. I just wanted you to talk a little more so I could get a better feel, that's all. No pressure.



> Whether it's dark or bright. Whether I like it in there or not. Whether it feels safe and cosy or cold. I'm not sure though if it comes from some inner vibe-picking or if it's simply quickly looking at the contents of the room and forming an opinion.


This also seems Se to me (with a dabble of Fi). I likely wouldn't notice a room was cold until I actively shivered. When I walk into a room I tend to notice first and foremost if there's people or things that look interesting to play with. So I'd look for a person I know, a book, something to fiddle with. I tend to notice things like lighting and temperature after I've been in the room a while and they are somehow called to my attention. I am, however, very sensitive to unpleasant lighting, temperature, or noise-levels over long periods of time. It's like eventually my body starts yelling at me that it's uncomfortable (inferior Si). 

Ne immediately starts ignoring certain sensory data it doesn't find interesting or useful. Se gives everything equal weight until it determines what will directly affect it. Do either of those sound like you?


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

randomshoes said:


> Ne immediately starts ignoring certain sensory data it doesn't find interesting or useful. Se gives everything equal weight until it determines what will directly affect it. Do either of those sound like you?


I thiiink the first sentence sounds more like me, but I am not 100% sure.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

pond said:


> Although I do realize immediately when something changes its place, would that be Si?





Violator Rose said:


> Yup, that's Si. For example, I have a female friend who used to never wear makeup, until one day, she decided to wear some eyeliner, and I noticed that right away.


I disagree. I think what pond was describing was pretty much just Pe. No one notices everything all the time; we all ignore things we see every day. If we notice immediately when they change it simply indicates that we are more in the world and in the moment (ExxP).


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

randomshoes said:


> Oh no! I didn't mean to stress you out!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm leaning ESFP. The feeling of picking up something from everyone around you seems very Se, and "I know I'm my own person" is definitely Fi. And of course you answered the question. I just wanted you to talk a little more so I could get a better feel, that's all. No pressure.


I disagree because reading that still made my head hurt. I can't place it exactly but it lacks cognitive focus and the way she's describing people seems more "imaginative" for the lack of a better word, or intuitive, how people are in a more general sense, than in a more concrete sense. 



> This also seems Se to me (with a dabble of Fi). I likely wouldn't notice a room was cold until I actively shivered. When I walk into a room I tend to notice first and foremost if there's people or things that look interesting to play with. So I'd look for a person I know, a book, something to fiddle with. I tend to notice things like lighting and temperature after I've been in the room a while and they are somehow called to my attention. I am, however, very sensitive to unpleasant lighting, temperature, or noise-levels over long periods of time. It's like eventually my body starts yelling at me that it's uncomfortable (inferior Si).
> 
> Ne immediately starts ignoring certain sensory data it doesn't find interesting or useful. Se gives everything equal weight until it determines what will directly affect it. Do either of those sound like you?


But coziness is more in line with Si than it is Se. Bad example because I'm Ni dom so I don't value Si at all but I never notice whether something is comfy, cozy etc. I don't even know what that means lol.


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## pretense (Jan 2, 2013)

@pond Answer this question:
1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

consciousness said:


> @pond Answer this question:
> 1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.


. | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I chose this one because it immediately captured my attention because of all the colours. I like the tiny details in the background, all the fruit and colourful cups. Everything seems to work really well together. The girl seems really focused on something.

Aaaand these kind of things made me doubt my intuitiveness in the first place.


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## pretense (Jan 2, 2013)

And there we have it folks.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

pond said:


> . | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> I chose this one because it immediately captured my attention because of all the colours. I like the tiny details in the background, all the fruit and colourful cups. Everything seems to work really well together. The girl seems really focused on something.
> 
> Aaaand these kind of things made me doubt my intuitiveness in the first place.


Lol yeah, I'm doubting your type now as well. 

As an ENFP, I'm more focused on the girl than the stuff in the background, even though I'm aware the things in the background are there. The color that stands out the most is the yellow on the girl's apron. Although the thing that stands out the most for me is the worried look on the girl's face. I wonder what she's worried about...


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> Lol yeah, I'm doubting your type now as well.
> 
> As an ENFP, I'm more focused on the girl than the stuff in the background, even though I'm aware the things in the background are there. The color that stands out the most is the yellow on the girl's apron. Although the thing that stands out the most for me is the worried look on the girl's face. I wonder what she's worried about...


See?! I don't understand myself.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> I disagree because reading that still made my head hurt. I can't place it exactly but it lacks cognitive focus and the way she's describing people seems more "imaginative" for the lack of a better word, or intuitive, how people are in a more general sense, than in a more concrete sense.


I don't think it's an absurd conclusion that it made your head hurt because it was a giant dose of your inferior function.



> But coziness is more in line with Si than it is Se. Bad example because I'm Ni dom so I don't value Si at all but I never notice whether something is comfy, cozy etc. I don't even know what that means lol.


Eh...depends on whether you're talking about the MTBI description or the socionics description.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

Anyway, @_pond_. Have you thought about lurking the subforums of ESFPs and ENFPs and seeing if you relate to most of the users?

The other thing you can do is take an enneagram test. It might give us a better idea of what you are, since a lot of enneagram types are more common for certain MBTI types. For example, 7w6 is very common for ENFPs, and I'm not entirely sure what types are common for ESFPs.......but anyway could be something to check out


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> . Although the thing that stands out the most for me is the worried look on the girl's face. I wonder what she's worried about...


Her dad owns the food stand and they're not getting enough customers and also she's worried she might be gay.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

randomshoes said:


> I don't think it's an absurd conclusion that it made your head hurt because it was a giant dose of your inferior function.


Actually, when it's my inferior function it has such a beautiful clarity to it I could never doubt its meaning or intention. There's a reason I linked videos of Sky, Mugin and Ygritte as ESFPs, because that's the kind of interaction and clarity I prefer. They don't make my head hurt - far from. I am good friends with an ESFP and I like how communication is so smooth with her. For one she never makes my head hurt. It's usually Ne or Fe types that make my head hurt. To me that's a part of socionics duality which is why I can't see how the OP is an SEE or ESFP. The letters don't matter much to me because it ultimately conveys an individual who is Se dominant with Fi auxiliary. 



> Eh...depends on whether you're talking about the MTBI description or the socionics description.


Neither and both and something more than that. I look at the archetype definition of the Jungian function of Si, that both the MBTI and socionics encompass, just like with Ne, and Se, and the problem is that I don't see how the OP fits that archetype definition of Se-Ni in particular. 

Though another possibility that struck me recently could be Fi dominance.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> Anyway, @_pond_. Have you thought about lurking the subforums of ESFPs and ENFPs and seeing if you relate to most of the users?
> 
> The other thing you can do is take an enneagram test. It might give us a better idea of what you are, since a lot of enneagram types are more common for certain MBTI types. For example, 7w6 is very common for ENFPs, and I'm not entirely sure what types are common for ESFPs.......but anyway could be something to check out


Yeah, I've read quite a lot of both of the subforums and I honestly relate more to ENFPs. ESFPs seem way too.. fast for me. Not sure how to explain this, but it's as if they're so action-oriented that they just _do _stuff all the time whereas I need to stop and think for a bit every once in a while.

I'm a 7w8.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

pond said:


> . | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> I chose this one because it immediately captured my attention because of all the colours. I like the tiny details in the background, all the fruit and colourful cups. Everything seems to work really well together. The girl seems really focused on something.
> 
> Aaaand these kind of things made me doubt my intuitiveness in the first place.


maybe i can help! i thought the picture you linked was boring lol. the colors are all dull because of the shadows and i didn't pay attention to the girl at all. those were my only thoughts...
Lofoten Sunset | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
i would have picked this picture because of the bright, colorful setting and just everything about the sunset:happy:

anyway i think you use si/ne!


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

idoh said:


> maybe i can help! i thought the picture you linked was boring lol. the colors are all dull because of the shadows and i didn't pay attention to the girl at all. those were my only thoughts...
> Lofoten Sunset | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> i would have picked this picture because of the bright, colorful setting and just everything about the sunset:happy:
> 
> anyway i think you use si/ne!


I think the one you chose is boring :tongue: I mean the colours are pretty but as much as I didn't really dwell on the girl in that photo and focused more on the surroundings, she was part of the reason why I chose that photo because she somehow completes it. Idk.

Edit: Wait, as in I use more Si than Ne?


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

pond said:


> I think the one you chose is boring :tongue: I mean the colours are pretty but as much as I didn't really dwell on the girl in that photo and focused more on the surroundings, she was part of the reason why I chose that photo because she somehow completes it. Idk.


What did you notice first in this second photo? For me, it was that giant rock.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

pond said:


> ESFPs seem way too.. fast for me. Not sure how to explain this, but it's as if they're so action-oriented that they just _do _stuff all the time whereas I need to stop and think for a bit every once in a while.


 @ephemereality
Yeah, actually I'm wondering why we aren't considering IxFP now too. That might explain some of the mass confusion. And also the OP's trouble categorizing herself, actually.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> What did you notice first in this second photo? For me, it was that giant rock.


Well the rock is pretty in-your-face.



randomshoes said:


> @ephemereality
> Yeah, actually I'm wondering why we aren't considering IxFP now too. That might explain some of the mass confusion. And also the OP's trouble categorizing herself, actually.


I really don't think I'm an introvert.. But please elaborate.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

pond said:


> I think the one you chose is boring :tongue: I mean the colours are pretty but as much as I didn't really dwell on the girl in that photo and focused more on the surroundings, she was part of the reason why I chose that photo because she somehow completes it. Idk.
> 
> Edit: Wait, as in I use more Si than Ne?


you like the details way more than i do, so that's why i say ne/si. maybe ISFJ or ENFP :tongue: i notice the colors first, then focus on background, then details last. for example, i didn't notice the rock at first and went straight to the sunset.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

pond said:


> Well the rock is pretty in-your-face.


True, but some people might notice the bright yellows of the sunset along the horizon, the ripples in the waves, or the cracks along the sand...


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

pond said:


> . | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> 
> I chose this one because it immediately captured my attention because of all the colours. I like the tiny details in the background, all the fruit and colourful cups. Everything seems to work really well together. The girl seems really focused on something.
> 
> Aaaand these kind of things made me doubt my intuitiveness in the first place.


Ooh pretty picture. Very Se-Ni in its presentation to me. Honestly though, I am not sure what to say about it really. For what it's worth I'm noticing the woman in the forefront too than the background, but since is the picture's focus so you are supposed to see her first. I think an Se type would get more out of this picture than I would, seeing the colors, thinking about what it would be like where she lives, experiencing the picture as if they were in it, especially if they were an ESFP.



idoh said:


> maybe i can help! i thought the picture you linked was boring lol. the colors are all dull because of the shadows and i didn't pay attention to the girl at all. those were my only thoughts...
> Lofoten Sunset | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
> i would have picked this picture because of the bright, colorful setting and just everything about the sunset:happy:
> 
> anyway i think you use si/ne!


Wow, yeah, that's Ni. Very pretty. I love the vastness of it, how it implies infinity. It's like it has this singular focus where everything just goes infinitely. What I notice first is the angle and the horizon, kind of draws me in.

As for the OP, I'll just toss up INFP in there. I still think that makes more sense than xSFP and Fi I think everyone can agree on.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

pond said:


> I really don't think I'm an introvert.. But please elaborate.


You seem to be using a lot more Fi than anything else: it's why everyone's arguing over just your Pe function. It seems like everything is filtered through your Fi. I'm starting to think INFP.

Why don't you think you're an introvert?


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

randomshoes said:


> You seem to be using a lot more Fi than anything else: it's why everyone's arguing over just your Pe function. It seems like everything is filtered through your Fi. I'm starting to think INFP.
> 
> Why don't you think you're an introvert?


I go bonkers when I'm alone for too long. I'm usually the one arranging all kinds of hang outs because I get bored at home. And I definitely get energized by interaction with people. Usually when I meet up with someone and then I'm going home I feel like a little ball of energy and all I want to do is call someone else up.


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

pond said:


> I go bonkers when I'm alone for too long. I'm usually the one arranging all kinds of hang outs because I get bored at home. And I definitely get energized by interaction with people. Usually when I meet up with someone and then I'm going home I feel like a little ball of energy and all I want to do is call someone else up.


Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Huh. I'm a bit stuck.


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

randomshoes said:


> Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Huh. I'm a bit stuck.


Maybe we could just blame it all on the fact that I'm still a kid and not fully developed.. orrr this could be a family thing cause recently my older sister took a functions test and got super high results on both Ne and Se :tongue:


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> Wow, yeah, that's Ni. Very pretty. I love the vastness of it, how it implies infinity. It's like it has this singular focus where everything just goes infinitely. What I notice first is the angle and the horizon, kind of draws me in.
> 
> As for the OP, I'll just toss up INFP in there. I still think that makes more sense than xSFP and Fi I think everyone can agree on.


well, the main reason i didn't like the other picture was because of how dull and depressing the scene was, with the shadows and all. i really know i'm ISFP though! i always thought Si was focused on details and Se was just 'normal' observation... (for me anyway haha) 



pond said:


> I think the one you chose is boring :tongue: I mean the colours are pretty but as much as I didn't really dwell on the girl in that photo and focused more on the surroundings, she was part of the reason why I chose that photo because she somehow completes it. Idk.
> 
> Edit: Wait, as in I use more Si than Ne?


oh idk you lol! i am just figuring this out based on the picture you like. i read that Si gets personal feelings from experiences and they are all subjective. that kind of sounds like what you said about the girl just completing the picture, maybe it felt right


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

pond said:


> Maybe we could just blame it all on the fact that I'm still a kid and not fully developed.


This. I think it's this.

ANOTHER thing you could do.....read these two descriptions and tell me which one sounds more like your childhood:

Portrait of an ENP Child

Portrait of an ESP Child


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> This. I think it's this.
> 
> ANOTHER thing you could do.....read these two descriptions and tell me which one sounds more like your childhood:
> 
> ...


Ooh, definitely ENP. I was a super imaginative child, always full of ideas, I loved drawing and writing, my teacher loved me cause I always wrote little poems and stories. I remember being very leader-ish and I loved being the centre of attention. But I was never very outdoorsy or active, I hated sports (still do). I did spend lots of time outdoors, but all I did was play hide-and-seek with my friends :tongue:


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Violator Rose said:


> This. I think it's this.
> 
> ANOTHER thing you could do.....read these two descriptions and tell me which one sounds more like your childhood:
> 
> ...


I actually found those extremely useless personally. I am not sure one can really discern type from childhood because I think children may in fact exhibit their opposite type as children but as they mature they actually do a complete inferior-dominant switch. I for example think that's the case with me. Up to a certain point I was extremely outgoing and spontaneous as a child, and then I turned as extremely introverted.



pond said:


> Maybe we could just blame it all on the fact that I'm still a kid and not fully developed.. orrr this could be a family thing cause recently my older sister took a functions test and got super high results on both Ne and Se :tongue:


How old are you exactly?



idoh said:


> well, the main reason i didn't like the other picture was because of how dull and depressing the scene was, with the shadows and all. i really know i'm ISFP though! i always thought Si was focused on details and Se was just 'normal' observation... (for me anyway haha)


To be honest, I think all the functions are detail-oriented, but the real question is what kind of details? I've been told by an INTP on this site than I'm too detail-oriented and not enough big picture for example. The reason for that is likely because Ni likes to prod intuitive content in depth, something the Ne type is not concerned with, hence, it seems "detailed" and "lacking" in "big picture".


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

ephemereality said:


> I actually found those extremely useless personally. I am not sure one can really discern type from childhood because I think children may in fact exhibit their opposite type as children but as they mature they actually do a complete inferior-dominant switch. I for example think that's the case with me.



Just because it was the case for you doesn't mean it's true for everyone. I used Ne as a kid, I still use Ne a lot now. I appeared more introverted as a child, but I later realized I was just a shy kid. Maybe you're experiencing some sort of shyness at this point in your life?



I don't think you can just become an introvert if you grew up as an extrovert.











Sent from my HTCPO881 Sprint using Tapatalk


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

idoh said:


> well, the main reason i didn't like the other picture was because of how dull and depressing the scene was, with the shadows and all. i really know i'm ISFP though! i always thought Si was focused on details and Se was just 'normal' observation... (for me anyway haha)


I'm not sure. It probably does depend on what kind of details you're talking about, like Eph said. Looking at the picture @_pond_ linked to (which I think is very nice btw), the first thing I notice is that the girl is Asian, and then I don't think I focus much more on the specific details of the picture, as much as I just take in the "feel" (_it's kind of dark, but with some bright colors that pop, etc_... meh, it's hard to put into words :S I suck at describing stuff, yet I consider being a Si-dom.) Uhm the other picture I don't make much of. It's just a beach. :tongue: Maybe a bit too bright for me.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Violator Rose said:


> Just because it was the case for you doesn't mean it's true for everyone. I used Ne as a kid, I still use Ne a lot now. I appeared more introverted as a child, but I later realized I was just a shy kid. Maybe you're experiencing some sort of shyness at this point in your life?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My point is that since it is not applicable on everyone, one shouldn't stereotype or generalize specific pattern development either, because if someone doesn't fit, then what? Then it just shows how the model is useless to me, since it fails at doing what it should i.e. properly predict a development pattern. Then it rationalizes away exceptions as being just that - instead of reassessing the fact that the model is actually flawed in the first place.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> Just because it was the case for you doesn't mean it's true for everyone. I used Ne as a kid, I still use Ne a lot now. I appeared more introverted as a child, but I later realized I was just a shy kid. Maybe you're experiencing some sort of shyness at this point in your life?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


haha saameee! the ISFP description fit me really well when I was younger, and still does. I just read this page & it's the only description that's actually popped out at me. 
http://personalitycafe.com/isfp-articles/7287-isfp-child.html#post160001
this part


> *The ISFP is the epitome of putting everything in the mouth…oh brother they love it….again sensory*


reminds me of when I was drawing and ate my (nontoxic) crayon and paper out of curiosity (I was like 5) :kitteh: I don't think personality changes either, except because of depression maybe. I know everyone becomes different in high school and then normal again in college, which I think also happened to me on the outside and it can be harder to find your real type the more you grow up and change because of your environment

...welll I think @_pond_ is enfp! !


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> How old are you exactly?


I'm 17, almost 18, my birthday's in two months. So I guess it's not _that_ young when it comes to 'development' but still pretty young.


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