# NT and too much complexity?



## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> You might also want to consider the possibility of being an INTP. The process you are describing is Ti spinning, not really a problem for INTJs (as far as I know).


I agree with this. Before looking at the OPs type, I immediately assumed she was INTP. INTJs tend not to get caught up in the details, whereas INTPs live there.

I take complex structures/ideas and reduce them to a simple system. My INTP ex on the other hand, would take the most insignificant (to me) detail and spin it into a massively complex issue.

In my experience the difference between INTJ/INTP comes down to "how" vs "why."

INTJs don't really care why something is the way it is. They just want to know how to apply/use that knowledge/information within their own system. 

INTPs on the other hand, need to know why. They like to explore things, break them down, and see how and why they work the way they do.


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## Knight of Ender (Mar 30, 2014)

I've found that when I start to overcomplicate things, I quickly get buried in details. However, if you get in the habit of being too simple, it's easy to overlook details. So my strategy is to only go into detail when you need to, because it helps you look at the entire problem before focusing on specific parts. It also helps in remembering what the entire task at hand is all about.


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## Elistra (Apr 6, 2013)

Raha said:


> As a student teachers always criticized me that i make simple facts complex to myself. and they advised me to relax and just think simple like other people do.
> thinking complicated about complex things is very good, it makes you "defeat" the problem but what about simple facts? as a NT, are you sometimes trapped in the complexity yourself made? and if yes, how do you deal with?


I read this post, glanced at the type, and my first thought was, 'Are you sure you're not an INTP?'

I like to simplify things down to their core essence, and go from there. My INTP husband likes to comb every last detail, relevant or otherwise, to be sure he is not missing anything. 

Me: So, did you find out about the <whatever it was>?
Him <looking a bit overwhelmed>: It's... complicated....

I sigh inwardly, because whenever he responds like that, it's invariably because he's built the intellectual equivalent of a nuclear reactor in order to hammer in a mental nail. He's now wandering lost among control rods and cooling systems, which frankly have jack all to do with the original nail, and he doesn't know what to do about it now.

Me: Alright, what happened first? 
Him: <finally produces this long, winding story, vastly overloaded on less-than-relevant detail>
Me: <after half an hour or more of listening and asking more questions> So in other words, A because B and C, but if D happens, we're better off waiting till next week.
Him: <looks slightly frustrated> ... yeah.
Me: Why didn't you just say so? 
Him: :frustrating:


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## JustBob31459 (Apr 7, 2014)

Reality is as complex as your mind can handle.
Occam's Razor the modus operandi


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> It's actually Te vs Ti here, but that's an accurate synopsis. Ne and Ni just change the type of information perceived, and how the information is associated. Seeing simplicity or complexity are a result of a judgment function being applied to the perception.


I deal with a lot of Ti at work, and I've found that they can make things insanely complex. It's one of those:

Ti co-worker: Well, we have to do X to satisfy segment 1, then Y to satisfy segment 2, then Z to satisfy segment 3, so that they all get the goods they need. 

Me: So, basically, you do A, and sell to the highest bidder.

Ti co-worker: But then 1 or more of segment 1, 2 or 3 won't be happy.

Me: What do you care, you've already got your money? 

Ti co-worker: Yes, but the segmentation strategy I made up won't work that way....


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## nO_d3N1AL (Apr 25, 2014)

I think making things more complicated is not necessarily a bad thing always. It can be useful for acquiring different perspectives on things. Trying to reach the same conclusion or goal using a more sophisticated approach can often be a valuable learning experience. Of course, in real-world applications and systems, it is always best to stick with the most intuitive / easy to understand method for obvious reasons.

Sent from my RM-846_eu_euro1_291 using Tapatalk


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

*Anyone remember the Lincoln quote about how it is easier to write the long letter than the short one?
*
Some of the most awesome designs, or most effective campaigns, . . . . or great books - are a product of editing. Great ideas only seems obvious after edited down to the most elegant version; the path to the best answer isn't always a direct route.

For me anyway, telling me to keep it simple is counter productive. I have to let myself see what I see - and then edit it down for presentation or action. SOMETIMES, I have to ask myself what is the most crucial and set a baseline standard to just go for that. - Nobody can be everywhere doing an awesome job of everything. In many cases your baseline is still better than someone else's deluxe version.

If you do that though, some people will say you have an all or nothing personality. Those will be perfectionists who have no imagination at all. With no imagination there is less of a struggle for prioritizing?


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## sorene (Feb 18, 2014)

Raha said:


> As a student teachers always criticized me that i make simple facts complex to myself. and they advised me to relax and just think simple like other people do.
> thinking complicated about complex things is very good, it makes you "defeat" the problem but what about simple facts? as a NT, are you sometimes trapped in the complexity yourself made? and if yes, how do you deal with?


It depends on the type of facts we are talking about. If we are interpreting literature I would view that different than learning about complex concepts in science. 

In both instances, a key word is solipsism. That's my get-out of jail free card when it comes to complexity. I just end with "well I don't even know if all you other people are real or just physical manifestations of my subconscious so all my theorizing could be extremely accurate or extremely complex nonsense; but either way, it was fun."


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## starscream430 (Jan 14, 2014)

I do admit that creating complexities out of simple situations is an issue that I still struggle with daily in my work. That is why I'm happy that I have level-headed friends to lean upon if I'm in a mental crisis.


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## Mercutio (Apr 28, 2013)

I focus on connecting the dots too much so that even when the picture is finished, I have a hard time recognizing the completedness and continue off in more tangents, discarding the original purpose of the connections in the first place.


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## Elistra (Apr 6, 2013)

Old Intern said:


> If you do that though, some people will say you have an all or nothing personality.


That doesn't have much to do with complexity, though. Regardless of your preference to broaden or distill (Ne or Ni), if you give a damn about anything at all, you'll be accused of having an all or nothing personality regardless.

The only good thing about the zombies who accuse you of this is that unlike the zombies which feature in popular entertainment, _these_ zombies tend to moan incoherently then shuffle elsewhere when you tell them off, rather than moaning incoherently and sticking around.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

Elistra said:


> That doesn't have much to do with complexity, though. Regardless of your preference to broaden or distill (Ne or Ni), if you give a damn about anything at all, you'll be accused of having an all or nothing personality regardless.
> 
> The only good thing about the zombies who accuse you of this is that unlike the zombies which feature in popular entertainment, _these_ zombies tend to moan incoherently then shuffle elsewhere when you tell them off, rather than moaning incoherently and sticking around.


After spending time here and then applying some of it to a few people I know - INTJ's seem to have an easier time with the all or nothing thing. Not That I can't choose my own priorities I'm not extreme PE, but somehow INTJ's are less under attack for saying no? 

People have an expectation that we (ENTP's) are nice, but then get horrified when we want to opt-out of whole areas of life or don't volunteer for certain complications we don't want (specially if you are a girl).

Even though I may still say no - Ti will go around in circles about it and I loose time that way - in my head.


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## oddiscrey (Oct 24, 2014)

ieatgingers said:


> I do this kind of a lot. Something will seem so easy that I feel like it has to be wrong because it's just so incredibly easy, then I wind up confusing myself, and everyone assumes I'm really dumb, but I just put too much irrelevant thought into it.
> 
> I make easy things really difficult.


Thank Christ, my over-complicating of simple matters was making me doubt my typing! XD


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## godisblue (Jun 28, 2014)

Being not "synthetic" enough may be the reason i won't win a Nobel Prize next year, so yeah, that is a problem for me too. 

PS : On a more serious note, teachers always say that i make "too long" essays and that i tend to over-analyze / make crazy connections to make the initial matter even more complex, but every time i tried to be synthetic, i've ended up having a less good grade for not being clear enough or not developing the matter enough so now i just do random sh*t and see what happens (although i'm interested by this thread and try to always learn something from my mistakes... or not i don't know really, what am i doing with my life haha... )


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## Helweh18 (Jul 30, 2013)

Elistra said:


> I read this post, glanced at the type, and my first thought was, 'Are you sure you're not an INTP?'
> 
> I like to simplify things down to their core essence, and go from there. My INTP husband likes to comb every last detail, relevant or otherwise, to be sure he is not missing anything.
> 
> ...


LOL!!!! I'm dying laughing! My boyfriend does the same thing. Can't stop laughing. I just e-mailed this to him.


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## Tetsuo Shima (Nov 24, 2014)

My mind is an endlessly agonizing meteor shower of complexity.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

I don't know if complex is the right word. I guess to some other people my musings might appear complex. However , I try to bring a difficult concept down to earth instead of sending it off further into the depths of complexity. Kind of like untying a knot rather than thickening it. I don't always achieve this. This damn Fe drives me to communicate my insights+creativity with others. :dry: 
It's certainly interesting being the only NT type with dominant Ne and unchained Fe. My ENTP peeps will attest to this.

The way I learn best is by deconstructing a concept and looking at its logical underpinnings and premises. If they are valid ( non contradictory , consistent, etc) I extract those and apply them universally to other concepts ( really whatever my Ne can come up with). That's very much getting the 'gist' or core of it instead of cataloging all the details too ( which INTPs are likely to do). I very much see this as Ti.


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