# Help Needed: 387 vs 837



## Franscine (Nov 27, 2016)

Hi. I self type as an 8w7 3w2 7w8 sx/so. However, I'm unsure as to whether I am a core type 3w2 or 8w7. What I need help with is highlighting the differences between the two types while keeping in mind that I _do_ have both in my tritype. 

Ways I would describe myself:

- I am argumentative and opinionated (sometimes too opinionated to the point where people become annoyed).
- I am success oriented. I can't imagine myself as an average person living an average lifestyle. I have a need to be extravagant. I typically score very highly on grandiose narcissism due to this (pointing this out since grandiose narcissism is typically associated with 3s).
- This is difficult. I'm having a difficult time describing myself. Lol.

Stress points: 

I'm not entirely sure about 3 disintegrating to 9 when stressed. I haven't done enough research on it. I did read that 3s become apathetic and this is true for me in that I sort of become a flip-floppy rag-doll. I go from optimistic and ready to take on anything to a small child throwing a hissy fit acting as though she doesn't care anymore. 

Growth to 6...I admit I used to become very envious of others who've attained more success than me, but now I just keep persevering and reminding myself that I am myself and I'll go achieve things my way, in my life. I can't relate to being more concerned with people, and if that isn't consistent with the description of an integrated 3, that's because I haven't read up on what one looks like. XD

Disintegrating to 5 seems like me. I'm not sure if what I'm about to describe will align with anything...I'm just going to paint a picture, and if it does, then tell me so. 

I become reclusive. I will just constantly analyze others and observe, interpreting what I see in my own cynical way. Speaking of cynical ways, it feels like one big existential crisis. Haha. I become nihilistic. Also, I'll go from being extremely analytical to feeling as though I can't control my emotions. The biggest thing would have to be isolating myself and receding into my thoughts. It's like a coping mechanism.

Growth to 2, on my good days I have been told I am extremely helpful. I am naturally people oriented. I'm concerned with being fully integrated into a group, and when I'm not I feel left out. This is all I can really describe since I don't know if I've ever been very healthy. 

So what do you think?


----------



## sinaasappel (Jul 22, 2015)

Why can't you see yourself as an average person?


----------



## Santa Gloss (Feb 23, 2015)

Your post sounds like a 3 with an 8 fix more than vice versa, but instead of me just saying that, I will point you towards a few resources if you're interested.

Have you run across these descriptions before from Beatrice Chestnut's book? I found them very useful when I mistyped my core. You can take a look at the core values and each instinct subtype of 3 and 8 and see which one resonates the most with your personality. I mean, they both will if they're in your tritype, but the question is which particular one hits you more like lightening?

Three:


http://personalitycafe.com/type-3-f...e-beliefs-3s-according-beatrice-chestnut.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-3-f...ation-threes-according-beatrice-chestnut.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-3-f...exual-threes-according-beatrice-chestnut.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-3-forum-achiever/735001-social-3-according-beatrice-chestnut.html

Eight:


http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-f...e-beliefs-8s-according-beatrice-chestnut.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-f...servation-8s-according-beatrice-chestnut.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-f...exual-eights-according-beatrice-chestnut.html
http://personalitycafe.com/type-8-f...ocial-eights-according-beatrice-chestnut.html

If you want the whole book, you can download it here: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...nneagram-48-paths-greater-self-knowledge.html (it is named incorrectly but it is the correct file). 

If you just want to read the descriptions for all the 9 types online without downloading, then there's this: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...stnut-sub-type-descriptions-core-beliefs.html

I can't help you with 3w2 specifically, but someone wrote about 3w4 and gut fixes in the quote below. In reference to narcissism and a few other things you mentioned, the 8 fix description is worth looking at. 


* *






> http://personalitycafe.com/type-3-forum-achiever/113463-3w4-gut-fix-descriptions-stackemup-net.html
> 
> 3w4s with an 8 fix have an ego about having an ego. One word that can describe them its precisely that: ego. Highest candidate for unbridled narcissism. Grandiose and confident, tends to attract and surround themselves with people that will cheer them on. Focuses a lot of their attention on controlling their image and can do immense damage to others in the service of doing so. Does not seek admiration, demands it. Quickly boil up into rages with anybody gainsaying them (especially when this 3w4 is in leadership positions)...Naturally can have a lotta contempt for others (which they don't try hard to hide) and only surround themselves with admirers and yes-people. Often gestures expansivel and are most at ease in flaunting and adorning themselves and their bodies with postures and eye-catching outfits. Believe they can accomplish anything and are quite charming in the pursuit of such. In the lower levels of health, this type can quite possibly be the most arrogant person most people ever meet...which means there is usually little middle ground to people's reactions towards them. Some admire them, some hate them. Can go through images pragmatically, in order to keep up with the times and stay on top and may appear to others shameless in the "gimmicks" they may come up with to promote or defend their own image. Sense of superiority often blinds them from the intelligence levels of others and cuts corners more than any 3w4 preferring not to get tieed into the details...and they have bigger goals. Less shameless than the other 3w4s in utilizing their admirers and others in ways that will take care of the details and help them to reach their goals.
> Temperament: correlates best to the high temperament 3w4 but not as a hard and fast rule.
> Exemplars: Julius Caesar, Douglas Macarthur, Madonna





Edit: I forgot about this blog I stumbled across today. 


https://enneagramgirl.wordpress.com/2016/02/15/misidentification-3-8/
https://enneagramgirl.wordpress.com/2015/11/04/misidentification-3-7/

And lastly, there's this description of the 378 tritype. It sort of talks about how various cores can work within the tritype. It's not that good, but it's better than nothing! 


* *






> From: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...3452-27-tritype-archetype-descriptions-3.html
> 
> 378 – The Mover & Shaker Archetype
> 
> ...







Hopefully some of that will help.


----------



## Santa Gloss (Feb 23, 2015)

Gingerbread Diamonds said:


> Why can't you see yourself as an average person?


Not _all _3s are comfortable trading in diamonds to marry a gingerbread man :laughing: :bwink: It takes a very mature person to do that, which you definitely must be :bwink:

FWIW, I relate to her not wanting to be average. Around her age, I knew I wanted to go way past the limits everyone else set. I don't think I've ever had an average life. It was either awesome or brutally painful. Why start with average now? :biggrin:


----------



## Franscine (Nov 27, 2016)

I wouldn't want to be an average person because I'd feel as though I'm not living life to the fullest. It just feels wrong. I don't care about other people wanting to blend in because I recognize that the lifestyle I want isn't for everybody. Being average is I guess synonymous to worthless. And I understand that in the end we all die but thinking about something like that just gives me all the more reason to want to stay above the rest. Everyone's different, I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't share the same type as me to understand. It may have more to do with Se hidden agenda though.


----------



## Santa Gloss (Feb 23, 2015)

It has more to do with 3 Social than with Se. 

I saw your ennea questionnaire in the other thread. The below quote from Beatrice Chestnut sums up a part of what I see as your core. 



> The Social Three is very concerned with competition and winning. This is the most competitive Three. They are also focused on power, whether or not they are the one who has it.


----------



## Franscine (Nov 27, 2016)

*"People admire and respect success and achievement. To inspire admiration in others you must be successful and achieve."*

I mean, do they not? 

*- "If you achieve high status, you are a valuable person in the eyes of society."*

I'd have to disagree with this statement, because society is a cherry-picker. You can't just gain high status through ruining the lives of thousands, get exposed by WikiLeaks, and still expect society to value you. 

*- "Working hard to achieve specific goals enables me to control the things I do and make me successful."*

I am very goal oriented. I often set goals academically, and recently I've set long term physically-related goals. I mean, how do you expect to be successful when you don't have a clear idea what you're aiming for? Goals and success go together. It's just logic.

*- "Getting things done and being productive supports my well being."*

Yes, because I experience what feels like emptiness when I am unproductive.

*- "Setting goals is an important way to stay organized, get things done and achieve success."*

Already addressed this.

*- "Reaching specific goals depends upon hard work. I work hard to do whatever it takes to reach my goals and remove any obstacles in the way."*

Yes. However, I know my limits and I will not set an obviously unreachable goal.

*- "Image and appearance matter."*

Of course they do and anyone who says or thinks otherwise is wrong and a liar. Well, I guess the importance varies based on what one is shooting for, but I think, in general, looks do matter a lot in this world.

*- "How you look and what you've done tells people what to think and feel about you."*

Yes, it does. Part of it is just basic biology. We are programmed to see detrimentally skinny women as unable to bear children. And for the more societal part of it, women who had more meat on their bones were usually seen as more attractive since only the rich could afford to be overweight. Now, being fat makes people think you're lazy.

*- "It is important to have the right image for every context so that people will think well of you."*

I admit to altering my usual mannerisms to make a good impression on certain people, even though I don't like doing so. I'd like to say I'm myself 24/7 but tbh around particular people I'd rather not present myself negatively.

*- "Feelings aren't as important as getting things done. Feelings get in the way of getting things done and so can be a waste of time."*

Yes. 


Enneagram 8: 

*- "In a tough world, you need to be tough to survive."*

Yes and I also believe that if you aren't tough enough already by yourself, you should just be left behind. There's no hope for you.

*- "It's bad to be weak or vulnerable. Weak people are not worthy of respect."*

It sounds assholey, but I've never been known for being kind. I see this in myself like whenever someone like my mom starts crying and it just pisses me off for seemingly no reason and I just want them to shut the hell up.

*- "I am stronger and more powerful than most people."*

Yes, because when you believe that weak people deserve no remorse, you probably would not want to be weak yourself.

*- "I can do whatever I want."*

Yes, anyone can. But every action has consequences.

*- "No one can tell me what to do."*

Again, sure, no one can make you do or not do anything, but every choice has a consequence.

*- "Other people do not have the power to limit me in what I want and what I do."*

Of course they don't.

*- "I'm not subject to the constraints others might want to put on me."*

Well, you are, but that doesn't mean you can't find a way through. *eyeroll* This seems so fucking repetitive.

- "I have the power to make things happen and do what I want."

ASDFGHJKL

- "If some is good, more is better."

Sounds more indulgent like a 7, but yes.
*
- "I work hard and play hard."*

It wouldn't make sense to work your ass off and not do shit with the money, so?????

*- "It's not bad to be bad."*

Yes, seemingly bad actions can be justified.

*- "Powerful people tend to take advantage of weaker individuals. I protect the people I care about."*

Yes. This is one of those "who the fuck wouldn't?" statements. 

*- "While I don't necessarily "like" conflict, I can confront others when I need to move forward, get what I want, protect someone or combat injustice."*

Yeah injustice really gets me fired up.


-------------------

Conclusion: Most of 8 statements aroused a "Wtf?" from me.


----------



## Franscine (Nov 27, 2016)

No, I don't see myself as a social subtype. I think I'm more sx.


----------



## Franscine (Nov 27, 2016)

Santa Gloss said:


> It has more to do with 3 Social than with Se.
> 
> I saw your ennea questionnaire in the other thread. The below quote from Beatrice Chestnut sums up a part of what I see as your core.


No, I don't see myself as a social subtype. I prefer sexual.


----------



## sinaasappel (Jul 22, 2015)

* *




I meant to reply to this earlier but it was really an "eat the burger super fast and rush back to work" moment. I also don't want my dad freaking out when he asks me if I ate. >.> another story for another time






Santa Gloss said:


> Not _all _3s are comfortable trading in diamonds to marry a gingerbread man :laughing: :bwink: It takes a very mature person to do that, which you definitely must be :bwink:


XD thanks! I do hear that I am a mature person a lot. Especially at work. All I'm really doing is trying to level my mentality so that I don't come off as cocky or a know-it-all.



Santa Gloss said:


> FWIW, I relate to her not wanting to be average. Around her age, I knew I wanted to go way past the limits everyone else set. I don't think I've ever had an average life. It was either awesome or brutally painful. Why start with average now? :biggrin:


Lol. I asked that question to see whether her answer matched more with three or eight, not to shame her for looking for the better in life.


----------

