# Sensor Bias: What's your take on "The Controversy?"



## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> All IXXX types are just untreated mental illnesses / disorder(s) - the only type(s) that exist are ambiverts and (EXXX's). It is not a coincidence [every] IXXX type I have met is mentally ill (&) on the internet. I can smell a mental illnesses miles away.
> 
> The "real" (N)-types all cooped up on typology forum(s) .. (?) No; they are science labs - unaware of typologies - in the real world - being ambivert(s). Look who's in the Cancer Research labs / excelling in robotics at MIT. An ESFP? One that cannot "small talk" with people ... (?) One that doesn't know how to navigate (via) actuality?
> 
> ...


That's actually pretty true. I have an intp friend and well he thinks differently with me and he process information differently. But with Iq tests i get a higher score than him given that he uses Ti and Ne.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

mytinyheart said:


> Wut.
> 
> Okay, I'm too dumb to get whether you're being sarcatstic or not but I'm pretty sure anyone can suffer a mental illness being any type regardless of whether typology exists or not.
> 
> Heck. Mental illness may not exist either or the bloody internet either STOP GETTIN GME EXISTENTIAL BEFORE BEDTIME. :bored:


(Ni) = untreated anxiety.

(Si) = untreated paranoia. (S) = is actually intuition.

(Fi) = depression.

(Ti) = on the spectrum 

Introversion = untreated social anxiety / disorders.

____

Only Ambiversion ANXX's / ASXX's and EXXX's exist. IXXX's are a hoax. Anyone that disagrees is an Ambivert.


* *




_ I am just pulling your chain_.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> (Ni) = untreated anxiety.
> 
> (Si) = untreated paranoia. (S) = is actually intuition.
> 
> ...


So the next question would be, are you saying it is physically impossible for an introvert to not be mentally or emotionally sound? Or are you saying that while it is possible, the idea is not something that one would consider an occurrence that happens often?


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> (Ni) = untreated anxiety.
> 
> (Si) = untreated paranoia. (S) = is actually intuition.
> 
> ...


Fi dom here doesn't have depression and yet is on the spectrum.

I'm an enigma.


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> (Ni) = untreated anxiety.
> 
> (Si) = untreated paranoia. (S) = is actually intuition.
> 
> ...


I believe you catwalk. XD


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

atamagasuita said:


> That's actually pretty true. I have an intp friend and well he thinks differently with me and he process information differently. But with Iq tests i get a higher score than him given that he uses Ti and Ne.


#Jungian exposed - it seem(s) he were observing mental-disorders / illnesses. He is just a man. (&) Humans are almost always wrong. Like Kant or Descartes. They were wrong with almost everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mental_disorders


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> #Jungian exposed - it seem(s) he were observing mental-disorders / illnesses. He is just a man. (&) Humans are almost always wrong. Like Kant or Descartes. They were wrong with almost everything.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mental_disorders


That's actually true. I'm glad I'd found you. Someone with proof. I really know it's wrong. I just cannot explain it well. Thanks girl. You're my girl crush (^3^)/～☆


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> #Jungian exposed - it seem(s) he were observing mental-disorders / illnesses. He is just a man. (&) Humans are almost always wrong. Like Kant or Descartes. They were wrong with almost everything.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mental_disorders


Btw tell me more tell me more. （*⌒３⌒*）


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

mytinyheart said:


> Fi dom here doesn't have depression and yet is on the spectrum.
> 
> I'm an enigma.


I also bet you are actually (S) - with a high-functioning IQ (&) above average intellect; as well. [Normally] someone would call you INTP. Thinking / feeling does not exist; either. Only sensing - and general intuition. I call you (S).

All gamer(s) are (S) - most gamer(s) have high IQ. Sensor(s) dominate the internet / typology forum(s). Ever win an argument online ..? _Why not?_ What happens to an unhealthy ANXX? They revert into (S). Coincidence - internet = pure (Sensory) stimulus. 

Why - their memory is extrodinary. (S) = memory bias = all (S)'s are typology forum(s). Coincidence an intellectual's memorization is superb? No. Ever been to the "INFJ" sub-forum? Pure experience re-calling; pure memories / relational ideas. Pure (S). Look at that recall speed. Ever feel uncomfortable by internet conflicts .. (?) Turning stomach? Pure (Si). 

The real (N)-types are offline; in science research labs - being stupid, making mistakes, being clumsy. They are also all ANXX; not INXX - they must be. They see hope; they see craziness. Ever talk to a dumbass scientist? I have.

Almost all self-proclaimed INTJ's claim suffer from Anxiety disorder(s) - coincidence. No. (Ni) does not exist; it is anxiety. Real intuition is not anxiety -- ever met an INTJ go crazy / risk-taking .. (?) No. Too much anxiety; not rationality or Thinking. 

#hoax #conspiracy #exposed


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Xcopy said:


> So the next question would be, are you saying it is physically impossible for an introvert to not be mentally or emotionally sound? Or are you saying that while it is possible, the idea is not something that one would consider an occurrence that happens often?


My post(s) are just jokes (satirical humor). :tongues: (I _withdraw from the thread_ now for OP-derailing purposes).

_________

Com.



atamagasuita said:


> That's actually true. I'm glad I'd found you. Someone with proof. I really know it's wrong. I just cannot explain it well. Thanks girl. You're my girl crush (^3^)/～☆


(^3~)


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## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> (Ni) = untreated anxiety.
> 
> (Si) = untreated paranoia. (S) = is actually intuition.
> 
> ...


That moment when people don't read the spoiler and actually take you seriously...


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> I also bet you are actually (S) - with a high-functioning IQ (&) above average intellect; as well. [Normally] someone would call you INTP. Thinking / feeling does not exist; either. Only sensing - and general intuition. I call you (S).
> 
> All gamer(s) are (S) - most gamer(s) have high IQ. Sensor(s) dominate the internet / typology forum(s). Ever win an argument online ..? _Why not?_ What happens to an unhealthy ANXX? They revert into (S). Coincidence - internet = pure (Sensory) stimulus.
> 
> ...


But suppose the AXXX is tipped to the other side of the spectrum and becomes an EXXX? Do they also suffer a mental illness? If ambiversion is balance, I wonder what will happen if it becomes unbalanced?


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Jonneh said:


> That moment when people don't read the spoiler and actually take you seriously...


Indeed. It is _#satire. _

______________ 

Let us make [typology] fun (&) suddenly, _it isn't so bad_.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> My post(s) are just jokes (satirical humor). :tongues: (I _withdraw from the thread_ now for OP-derailing purposes)



Woahh, an INTJ with a sense of humor! Either I don't see this enough, or I do and just never notice it because of my terrible focus.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

MBTI is based on Jung's ideas on personality, which is, basically based in his idea on individuation vs the collective unconscious. 
It's not based on science, but there are a lot of ideas that Jung had, that I find logical, and make sense, particularly the idea of the shadow. Jungian personality theory uses the concept of the shadow quite a bit, and despite the fact that MBTI plays on the forer effect, people will have particular conscious leanings in their perception or their personality. 

I don't think that many of these people are necessarily against "sensor" people, or people who favor that aspect of perception, because, in reality, human beings are way more complex than what can be defined by four binary criteria. I think that many who don't consider themselves sensing types or don't consciously relate to the aspects of perception described in descriptions of cognitive functions that correlate to sensing, will often become offended or unduly judgmental when they see these traits in others. Jung attributed this to an internal struggle with the shadow, and a rejection of it; he believed in order for someone to achieve individuation, they have to embrace the shadow, rather than reject it. 

In reality, no one is a "sensor" or an "intuitive" in a purely binary sense. Everyone has sensing and intuitive aspects to their consciousness that often work in unison.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

dulcinea said:


> MBTI is based on Jung's ideas on personality, which is, basically based in his idea on individuation vs the collective unconscious.
> It's not based on science, but there are a lot of ideas that Jung had, that I find logical, and make sense, particularly the idea of the shadow. Jungian personality theory uses the concept of the shadow quite a bit, and despite the fact that MBTI plays on the forer effect, people will have particular conscious leanings in their perception or their personality.
> 
> I don't think that many of these people are necessarily against "sensor" people, or people who favor that aspect of perception, because, in reality, human beings are way more complex than what can be defined by four binary criteria. I think that many who don't consider themselves sensing types or don't consciously relate to the aspects of perception described in descriptions of cognitive functions that correlate to sensing, will often become offended or unduly judgmental when they see these traits in others. Jung attributed this to an internal struggle with the shadow, and a rejection of it; he believed in order for someone to achieve individuation, they have to embrace the shadow, rather than reject it.
> ...


True, but the main functions before them would be like the front runners of that person's personality right?


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Xcopy said:


> Woahh, an INTJ with a sense of humor! Either I don't see this enough, or I do and just never notice it because of my terrible focus.


Because they are not ANXX - (Initution) is nothing but humor; silliness and nonsense. It is observation of human stupidities - then spitting it out into the world the nonsense they observed. Ever wonder why ENTP's so funneh? Why ENTJ in the center making everyone smile? Why INTP so silly and light? 

But INTJ = stiff upper lip all of sudden? No. INTJ's are hilarious. They are also engaging. - that kid in the front winging the discussion? An ESFP? No. That is an INTJ taking notes. (ESFP)'s are in the back.

Faux/posing INTJ's disagree - they have also memorized the descriptions of INTJ's and use them as evidence, coincidence? No -- they are also (S).

#exposed #lifehack #apples


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

Xcopy said:


> True, but the main functions before them would be like the front runners of that person's personality right?


In theory, yes.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> Because they are not ANXX - (Initution) is nothing but humor; silliness and nonsense. It is observation of human stupidities - then spitting it out into the world the nonsense they observed. Ever wonder why ENTP's so funneh? Why ENTJ in the center making everyone smile? Why INTP so silly?
> 
> But INTJ = stiff upper lip? No. INTJ's are hilarious. Faux/posing INTJ's disagree - they have also memorized the descriptions of INTJ's, coincidence? No.
> 
> #exposed #lifehack #apples


Oh you, and your jokes that fly over my head because I cannot pick up your tone through text.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

dulcinea said:


> In theory, yes.


To be honest, that was my take on the MBTI in general as well. I was just making sure I understood. ^^


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## atamagasuita (May 15, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> My post(s) are just jokes (satirical humor). :tongues: (I _withdraw from the thread_ now for OP-derailing purposes).
> 
> _________
> 
> ...


I thought it's true. You broke my heart into pieces. I cannot take it back anymore. (/ー￣ρ(・・、)


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Xcopy said:


> Oh you, and your jokes that fly over my head because I cannot pick up your tone through text.


It_ wouldn't be as fun_; if you could.


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## Xcopy (Dec 10, 2016)

Catwalk said:


> It_ wouldn't be as fun_; if you could.


 Aww, that's debatable. I would probably laugh more and look either less dumb or more dumb. You would be in the clea-Ohh you meant fun for you. Then yeah, I get it. Well on the positive side, someone is laughing.


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## Shiver (Nov 10, 2016)

Oddly, I find myself more and more running up against my self-imposed filter or inner analyst when it comes to looking at S/N in users here. While not to say that I haven't read some extremely obnoxious or ignorant posts by self-typed N members, when encountering conflict with a user who I see identifies as anything-S, I frequently catch myself wanting to think, "Ugh, they can't follow the connections I'm making."

This occurs in person in the form of problems I don't have when interacting with others I suspect are N types. As I frequently trail off with my sentences or connect ideas rather apart via rapid inference, most people seem frustratingly "incompatible" with the way I communicate. It becomes a knee jerk reaction along the lines of, "Sigh, sensors", compounded by my own preexisting tendency to not hold "other people" in high regard. <_>


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## Dora (Apr 25, 2016)

I am developing a pet peeve on people looking at the S and N divide, instead of looking at the functions. Se and Si aren't alike, so which one are you dissing? Ni and Ne are nothing alike, so which one are you praising as a mastermind that understands all right now?

The S/N (as well as the F/T) thing is irking me way more than it has any right to.


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## Shiver (Nov 10, 2016)

Dora said:


> I am developing a pet peeve on people looking at the S and N divide, instead of looking at the functions. Se and Si aren't alike, so which one are you dissing? Ni and Ne are nothing alike, so which one are you praising as a mastermind that understands all right now?
> 
> The S/N (as well as the F/T) thing is irking me way more than it has any right to.


Why the assumption that the functions are valid enough in MBTI to warrant consideration?

At any rate, if I had to differentiate, I suppose I'd say I become more annoyed with a lack of what's considered "Ne" in the system.


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## Dora (Apr 25, 2016)

Shiver said:


> Why the assumption that the functions are valid enough in MBTI to warrant consideration?


Because they are grandly different. And each sensing function pairs with an intuitive function.

Se supports Ni and vice versa. Therefore, Ni people will probably be able to communicate well, and easily enough with Se people.

Si supports Ne and vice versa. Therefore, Ne people will probably be able to communicate well, and easily enough with Si people.

On the other hand, Ni has no appreciation or understanding for Si, and it will vex them, therefore, will likely dismiss them. And vice versa. Same with Ne and Se.

Se is present focused. Si is past focused. Se is 'objective' of the environment, while Si perceives 'subjectively' through the filter of all previous experiences and developed associations.

They're different, and their compatibility to intuitive functions derives from that is all I'm saying.

If you take a healthy INTJ and a healthy ESFP, they are able to get along more than fantastic.
However, if you take a healthy INTJ and a healthy ESFJ, there are still likely to be hugely different perspectives, and misalignment of perception and judging. Why is that, if both are extroverted sensors feelers? The functions are completely different.


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## Shiver (Nov 10, 2016)

Dora said:


> Because they are grandly different. And each sensing function pairs with an intuitive function.
> 
> Se supports Ni and vice versa. Therefore, Ni people will probably be able to communicate well, and easily enough with Se people.
> 
> ...


That's the _theory_, which I'm quite familiar with, although I've seen enough to question whether the functions are any more useful than simply looking at N+T+P or I+SF or EN+TJ, etc. It seems as though most of what is explained by functions can also be seen in the combined aspects of the dichotomies.


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## Dora (Apr 25, 2016)

Shiver said:


> That's the _theory_, which I'm quite familiar with, although I've seen enough to question whether the functions are any more useful than simply looking at N+T+P or I+SF or EN+TJ, etc. It seems as though most of what is explained by functions can also be seen in the combined aspects of the dichotomies.


I would say my experiences with all INTPs are distinctly different than with all INTJs. Therefore, I disagree.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Librarian said:


> - Sensors should not "hate" being an S; denial is a pointless thing, IMO anyway.


 Telling other people how to feel is pointless. Hatred doesn't imply denial.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

If sensing is in any way related to conscientiousness on the big five scale, it would be a strong predictor of success.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

I've never read a description of Sensing that I found negative. Examples?


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## Shiver (Nov 10, 2016)

Dora said:


> I would say my experiences with all INTPs are distinctly different than with all INTJs. Therefore, I disagree.


I+P, N+P, T+P, IN+P, INT+P, NT+P, I+T+P, etc. It's not something that should be surprising.


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## Dora (Apr 25, 2016)

Shiver said:


> I+P, N+P, T+P, IN+P, INT+P, NT+P, I+T+P, etc. It's not something that should be surprising.


You know the P and J only indicate the function, that is extroverted, and basically tell you whether it's Ni+Te or Ne+Ti, right? P means extroverted perceiving, J means extroverted judging. Thus, indicates the functions.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Half the intuitives (including me) have been brought up in an environment where they were all deemed to be inferior to all those athletic and sporty types who were great at school or had some visible skills that they could use from a young age.
So before you ask that question you may as well ask why intuitives (usually brainy, nerdy) kids are regularly picked upon and bullied in school and even by their parents in some cases.
It's not so much that sensors are looked down upon. It's intuitives that are finally given some slack.


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## inregardstomyself (Mar 21, 2014)

Librarian said:


> - The principle ideas behind sensing matters:[/B][/I] Rules exist to help and protect us. Having an established way of doing things is key, such as when building livable homes, creating safe roads and educational programs. We need to keep a grounded, realistic view to stay practical. Taking each moment at a time helps us to be happier, less stressed and fulfilled. The past has much to teach us, we take the present for granted.


So I'll tell you, as someone who wavered back and forth on whether or not she was a sensor the main issue for me lies right here in this block of text.
That the essence of sensorness (lol) lies in rules and traditions and practicality.
Because then you have someone like me who values independence, critical thinking, originality, depth _and_ breadth of thought, abstraction, inspiration etc. These qualities are only ever given space as intuitive values, and yet, I don't think I think like an intuitive. 
So if I think about _how_ I think, Si seems to make a lot more sense (if I think of it more as categorization, accumulation, and piece by piece analysis of information rather than just thinking about smells all day), but when I think about the things I value the most - the concepts and ideas I'm drawn to - it seems that I must be an intuitive. 

(Note: the point isn't that I don't think sensors can't think about these things, but that if overall, I had to pick (and if I were painting with a broad stroke here) the characteristics that most apply to me, are not the qualities given to sensors. So it feels like to say "ok ya Si fits me" I have to try to fit into a mold that pinches in all the wrong places)

I think if we can break down the idea of character "prototypes" it might allow people more freedom to figure out where they truly lie. I guess I mean, don't let the type define the person, but let the person define the type. That way, if you think SiTe describes you best, but you spend most of your day dreaming about ascending to a higher spiritual consciousness, you don't feel so much like a paradox and a conundrum.


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## Librarian (Jun 14, 2016)

The discussion about whether the world and it's occupations are becoming more iNtuitive friendly or Sensor friendly is an interesting one. 

Obviously the sociological aspects spread across the board as far as location goes so not all statements will apply to every place/ circumstance. But what about an overall perspective, like some of you have been discussing? (Such as @Dora.)

*Technology* does seem to give iNtuitives the edge, and tech is a major feature of modern society. People are more and more turning to *the internet*, something unbound by rules or convention, a constantly changing world that despite years of use and advancement refuses to stick to any basic description. Most people love the internet for it's endless info and random nature and the thought that we should make concerted effort to make more sense of it would go against such enjoyment.

Computers are believed to be the future and the best way to face said future is to abandon so many other things that the internet "replaced." Libraries and books are a prime example of this. But is it really wise to be so quick to abandon things that have worked so well for so long, or to abandon the thought that maybe the physical nature of things can't be replaced by tech advances?

I love the internet AND books and I think things should stay balanced. Right now, so many want to be "different" and accept untested ideas with eagerness, which is good. But every thing evolves; it's very likely that after a time people will take a "sensor attitude" to help meld the old with the new.

That IS the story of human civilization, after all.


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## inregardstomyself (Mar 21, 2014)

jetser said:


> Half the intuitives (including me) have been brought up in an environment where they were all deemed to be inferior to all those athletic and sporty types who were great at school or had some visible skills that they could use from a young age.
> So before you ask that question you may as well ask why intuitives (usually brainy, nerdy) kids are regularly picked upon and bullied in school and even by their parents in some cases.
> It's not so much that sensors are looked down upon. It's intuitives that are finally given some slack.


Here lies another issue.
The idea that sensor = socially acceptable and intuitive = social reject (and my personal favorite, that sensor = popular dumb jock and intuitive = misunderstood intellectual)
As if you don't have sensors who relate to this exact experience. As if you don't have intuitives who are socially adjusted, perhaps more so than some of the sensors in your life.

Tbh I don't buy the whole 75/25 "statistic" (how does one even measure that anyway???). If I had to guess I'd say it was probably closer to 60/40, if not even just 50/50. In my experience I've met as much, if not more, intuitives as sensors, which tells me either I'm an intuitive magnet, they all somehow mistype as intuitives (and I am mistyping them also), or it's not as rarified as the MBTI brand makes you believe.


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## Shiver (Nov 10, 2016)

Dora said:


> You know the P and J only indicate the function, that is extroverted, and basically tell you whether it's Ni+Te or Ne+Ti, right? P means extroverted perceiving, J means extroverted judging. Thus, indicates the functions.


I remember coming across this post and being pleasantly surprised that it details a lot of what I was coming to notice myself in pretty much the same format, although I'm (as usual), not 100% sold on the issue and enjoy the concept of functions for what they _do_ allow us to consider. He's got a lot of other nicely detailed posts on the same topic that you can probably find referencing one another.


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## softvelvet (Apr 27, 2017)

There is an article by Heidi Priebe called "7 Reasons Why The Online MBTI Community Is Dominated By iNtuitives", I think it helps a lot when trying to understand the bias.


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## Librarian (Jun 14, 2016)

jetser said:


> Lol at sensors telling it's no problem being an intuitive everybody's different everybody has their own problems..
> It's like when white people don't understand what is it to be a minority in a majority population. They'll tell you to stop whining you have your chances too when in reality you don't.
> Until you've been in 1 or 2% of the population and you've had to live a portion of your life never having encountered a similar person as you you don't know what it's like. It's not about twenty year old people who get to college and are smart.
> It's about 5 to 10 year old children who will harass the life out of you if you're not the same as them. (and especially if you're a boy)
> ...


Comparing MBTI to Race is not something I personally am willing to do; I find racism to be a more important and serious topic than the one I based this thread off of. In fact, I tend to avoid it (at times) unless I am sure I am making appropriate statements in a way to seriously consider the issue.

So, if it's all the same to the rest of you, Moving On...

While I can't speak for the other sensors I must say for myself that I am not trying to say "it's no problem" being an INtuitive but rather, and this may be the Fi talking, I have been in situations where I was in a minority and due to that I realize this problem is important and that no one should feel beat down, regardless of reason. 

I was VERY protective of my younger sisters, INFJ and ENFP, partly because they viewed certain things very differently than others (iNtuition) though I didn't have a name for it. I KNOW people will treat Ns differently, in a negative way often, and though I am a sensor this still is a personal thing for me since those close to me are iNtuitives. 

And obviously, I've seen that same "you're different, you suck," come off on sensors. In their case it may be "Who cares about the rules, stop ruining the fun?!", or something, but bullying happens.

Believe me, it doesn't take much for a human to treat someone in a cruel manner.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

iNtuitive lives matter


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Librarian said:


> I find racism to be a more important and serious topic than the one I based this thread off of.


It maybe is. It doesn't change the fact that it is a problem too.
And, no offense, but you find it more important because you're accustomed to. You know about it, you've known about it your whole life.
MBTI is a fresh thing, so you couldn't hear people around you, oh that boy is intuitive, I wish they would left him alone and be what he wants to be.
And you not hearing it and you not having lived through this specific problem doesn't change the fact that there is a problem.



> Believe me, it doesn't take much for a human to treat someone in a cruel manner.


Then maybe it should stop altogether and whoever bullies, harasses anyone else for ANY reason should be restrained for doing such activities, you agree?

Face it, if this wasn't a thing, this thread wouldn't exist.


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## Librarian (Jun 14, 2016)

jetser said:


> It maybe is. It doesn't change the fact that it is a problem too.
> And, no offense, but you find it more important because you're accustomed to. You know about it, you've known about it your whole life.
> MBTI is a fresh thing, so you couldn't hear people around you, oh that boy is intuitive, I wish they would left him alone and be what he wants to be.
> And you not hearing it and you not having lived through this specific problem doesn't change the fact that there is a problem.
> ...


I'm confused; do you think I don't recognize that this is a problem, and an important one to consider at that? 

Because my goal was to make it clear that I DON'T want intuitives to be bullied, insulted, hurt or belittled. It's in the very first sentence in the very first statement in this thread. Both my sister's are Ns, one an INFJ (rarest type) and ENFP (type a lot of people seem to take for as a fool.) Finally: I created this thread, a major reason being that I've noticed that when people don't understand Sensors they often fail to understand intuitives. 

I hated seeing my sisters teased; not all my threats to the bullies could take the words away. But my big sister instinct, to a lesser degree, still comes out when I see innocents or the weak harassed for who they are/ what they do, and it doesn't make a difference what type they are. They've been wronged, I want to help. 

So yeah, I'd agree bullying should stop.

But I want to know: do you think I don't care? Because I do, for the same reason your last statement is 100% legit; this IS "a thing." Obviously, I know this problem (for both intuitives and sensors) exists; why else would I bring it up?


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## Librarylady (Mar 11, 2017)

??

Intuitives (and MBTI types in general) are not an oppressed group of people. I highly doubt that a straight/white/abled intuitive has more problems than a black/LGBT/disabled sensor, for example. There are actual minority groups out there that our society discriminates against, but MBTI isn't one of them.

That's not to say that I support intuitive being bullied or belittled, but It's ridiculous to think MBTI groups are the same thing as an actual oppressed group of people.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

I'm not saying I'm an iNtuitionist, but why are they always having problems with the law? And why were they actually happy with O.J's acquittal? Why no Sensor history month?? 

Also I think marriage should only be between a Thinker and a Feeler, it says so on the book of Jungian functions.

And finally, I'm ''okay'' with Perceivers, but they don't have to flaunt their lifestyle at me. I don't spend my days telling everyone I'm a Judger, much less throw a parade for it. It's a choice they made, don't give me that_ ''they were born that way''_ crap.






No but seriously, comparing oneself's psychologiccal type to a historically visibly repressed minority, borders on offensive.


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

It's because we live in an age of romanticism.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Librarylady said:


> Intuitives (and MBTI types in general) are not an oppressed group of people. I highly doubt that a straight/white/abled intuitive has more problems than a black/LGBT/disabled sensor, for example. There are actual minority groups out there that our society discriminates against, but MBTI isn't one of them.


Children discriminate against anyone that's different. You don't need to be of another race or color.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Stevester said:


> No but seriously, comparing oneself's psychologiccal type to a historically visibly repressed minority, borders on offensive.


Again, good old Si. "comparing oneself's psychologiccal type to a historically visibly repressed minority"

So if MBTI system was a hundred year old and everyone knew from the start who which group belongs to and we had our Rosa Parks and Martin Luther's then it somehow would seem a more serious problem to you?
Because this doesn't make any sense. And I bet my ass off that you would be saying the same if you were living in the 19th century about racial issues too.


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## Librarylady (Mar 11, 2017)

jetser said:


> Children discriminate against anyone that's different. You don't need to be of another race or color.


Yup, and that pretty much has happened to every single kid in existence. Every kid has been bullied for some reason, whether It's been color, personality, disability, family, or even their name. You in particular are not special. 

However, actual oppressed groups have been historically murdered, kept as slaves, lost their jobs and family, segregated, and so on. They face actual social issues that continue into their adulthood. If you seriously think that childhood N bullying is the same thing as social racism, homophobia, or ableism, then you are pretty privileged in your own life.

And why do you keep bringing up Si, anyway? I've had a few Ni-doms read your post and they had the same exact reaction.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Librarylady said:


> You in particular are not special.


How do you know that? "You" meaning not just me of course.
Right now I'm having a debate about something (work related) that I perfectly predicted and I'm right and yet again I have to prove than I'm right because no one else sees the same way that I do.
When does that happen ever to an ISTJ or an ISFJ? They're the majority, they're rarely facing the problem that they are misunderstood. That happens all the time to an INFJ or an INTJ. We have to give much more to community to be recognized. We have to become Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs, until that no one gives a shit about us. Why do you think they had to do what they did?
The current world is not a welcome home to intuitives.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

jetser said:


> When does that happen ever to an ISTJ or an ISFJ? They're the majority, they're rarely facing the problem that they are misunderstood.


EVERYONE feels misunderstood. That's an unfortunate part of being _human._

Plus SJs are only the majority according to some old MBTI-tests done in the US as far as I know... what if type actually is randomly distributed, and no type is the majority or the minority in the global scale?



> We have to give much more to community to be recognized. We have to become Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs, until that no one gives a shit about us. Why do you think they had to do what they did?


What are you basing this on? How do you even know those people are/were intuitives?



> The current world is not a welcome home to intuitives.


The current world is not a welcoming home to anyone.



jetser said:


> Again, good old Si. "comparing oneself's psychologiccal type to a historically visibly repressed minority"
> 
> So if MBTI system was a hundred year old and everyone knew from the start who which group belongs to and we had our Rosa Parks and Martin Luther's then it somehow would seem a more serious problem to you?
> Because this doesn't make any sense. And I bet my ass off that you would be saying the same if you were living in the 19th century about racial issues too.


Also, granted, MBTI isn't a hundred year old -system... but the original idea of typology was that type differences have been a source of problems throughout the history... and the point of the theory is to _explain _ the differences, view them critically and perhaps use this information for improvement.


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## Librarylady (Mar 11, 2017)

jetser said:


> How do you know that? "You" meaning not just me of course.
> Right now I'm having a debate about something that I perfectly predicted and I'm right and yet again I have to prove than I'm right because no one else sees the same way that I do.
> When does that happen ever to an ISTJ or an ISFJ? They're the majority, they're rarely facing the problem that they are misunderstood. That happens all the time to an INFJ or an INTJ. We have to give much more to community to be recognized. We have to become Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs, until that no one gives a shit about us. Why do you think they had to do what they did?
> The current world is not a welcome home to intuitives.


Trust me, I do understand that N's don't fit in. My mother for example is an INFJ, -the rarest MBTI type- and she feels like she doesn't fit in at all. At the same time, she still found your post pretty ridiculous. She does have a hard time finding likeminded people and getting friends who truly understand her mindset, but her N status is not going to cause her to face hate crimes or lose her job.

I'm an ISTJ yes, but I'm of other minority groups- groups which are legitimately oppressed in society. I'm not black, so I can't speak for racism, but I am of other minorities. If anything, it's even harder on an ISTJ to be a minority because we realize we don't fit the status quo at all and are rejected by the society that we're supposed to benefit from. Si can work against you when it comes to self-acceptance. Not to mention, that being open about my minority status can cause me to lose my job or legal rights in some places. 

It's not that sensors have no sympathy for intuitives, we understand you're disadvantaged, which is why I enjoy hearing the N mindset. But comparing it to complete social oppression is a different thing all together. And It's not just sensors that find it ridiculous to hear about.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Funny thing is, if we're actually going to take this whole _''didn't fit in as child/teen''_ debate seriously then......shouldn't it be a matter of introversion vs. extroversion?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Stevester said:


> Funny thing is, if we're actually going to take this whole _''didn't fit in as child/teen''_ debate seriously then......shouldn't it be a matter of introversion vs. extroversion?


No.


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## Shadow Tag (Jan 11, 2014)

Stevester said:


> Funny thing is, if we're actually going to take this whole _''didn't fit in as child/teen''_ debate seriously then......shouldn't it be a matter of introversion vs. extroversion?


It would more be a matter of, "Middle school and high school are a weird ass time for anyone, and most people don't think that they fit in." It can easily happen to any type. You see the "popular kids" around school, but what about the other 95% that stick to their friend groups and aren't super popular but know some people? And a big chunk of those people feel as if no one gets them, but on the outside they seem okay. There are a ton of people like that.

I know I felt misunderstood early on in high school, my INTP friend did, my ENFP friend did, my ESTJ friend did, etc....


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## Librarian (Jun 14, 2016)

*Racism and Typology are NOT the same and for so many reasons, should not be compared.* 

_Why?_

-Racism has caused death, pain, tragedy and some of the most shameful events in American history and just plain world history.

- Racism can take it's toll in one moment; the moment a prejudiced person looks at someone with a different skin color or different facial features. MBTI will never be judged as quickly or for such a foolish reason.

- Minority groups are hurt often before they open their mouth; nothing they say or do will easily change how they are viewed or treated. At least you can make effort to develop skills to help yourself be understood as far as personality goes. What the heck can you do when somebody has already judged you based on appearance? 

I can see in this thread there IS some bias towards sensors, or rather, that there are some negative ideas about sensors that cause animosity at times. As a sensor who gets along, no, works very well with, intuitives, I refuse to believe that there has to be animosity between us; certainly not for this reason. Obviously there will challenges as we see some things in a different way, but we're all human. 

The intuitives and sensors here have, for the most part, gotten along and have helped each other to get a good view of this topic, offering different perspectives respectfully. I don't just relate to my fellow ISTJs @Steveter and @Librarylady for instance; I also understand where @DOGSOUP an ENFJ, is coming from. I may specifically relate to the former because one reason I feel "misunderstood" is due to my Si Fi conflict, wanting to to things my own way but also do it in a way that is deemed safe and secure by a lot of other people. But I still relate to feelings of alienation of intuitives, even if they don't ALWAYS come from the same reason, we both feel it.

But we're all human; we're each responsible for treating each other with respect and understanding; sometimes the reason me and Ns don't get along is my fault; I didn't try to understand them when I should have. I take the blame for that, as do healthy intuitives if they were to blame. 

Treating each other badly, as functional adults, isn't something to blame on type; it's bad behavior, plain and simple. NO ONE has the right to belittle others, so if a sensor treats you badly, don't blame their personality, blame their socially unacceptable behavior. They need to know they have nothing resembling an excuse for this; their attitude needs adjusting.

Also: if you think I'm going to stop feeling alienated by others just because a sensor "shouldn't" feel that way, you are mistaken. You can't stop a sensor (or anyone) from feeling a certain way. Trying to do so only proves the point that they are, indeed, experiencing alienation.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

My wonderful personality type (esfp) doesn't mean that I coast through life unscathed. I am a minority in a majority population. I have a collection of learning disabilities that the majority of the population does not understand. There are plenty of people who think that my disabilities will go away if it is inconvenient to them. I was brutally bullied when I was in middle school. It also didn't help that I was the size of the average eight year old when I was twelve.





jetser said:


> Lol at sensors telling it's no problem being an intuitive everybody's different everybody has their own problems..
> It's like when white people don't understand what is it to be a minority in a majority population. They'll tell you to stop whining you have your chances too when in reality you don't.
> Until you've been in 1 or 2% of the population and you've had to live a portion of your life never having encountered a similar person as you you don't know what it's like. It's not about twenty year old people who get to college and are smart.
> It's about 5 to 10 year old children who will harass the life out of you if you're not the same as them. (and especially if you're a boy)
> ...


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

> racism and typology being compared


when will the gods stop your sinful typing fingers


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## typethisperson (Feb 4, 2017)

it's ridiculous that rebellious SJs are often mistyped as NJs cause SJs are suppose to follow the status quo.


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