# Which type does this?



## Regnum (Jul 13, 2016)

I have a family member who is literally driving me insane. He goes out of his way to do unsolicited favours for people, and then expects them to feel grateful and indebted to him, and becomes resentful when they don't. This really aggravates me because first of all I never ask him for anything, and second of all I would rather he not do anything for me at all if he is just going to hold it over my head or throw it in my face later.

He also likes to make remarks like "some of us have to work", which he tries to disguise with humour, but I can tell that they are jabs at me. I'm unemployed, but I don't hit him up for money so he has no reason to complain about it. He also complains endlessly about how much he just wants to relax, which is BS because he purposely rushes all the time and makes himself as busy as possible just so he can act like a martyr. He doesn't have to work as much as he does. He could delegate work to his subordinates if he wanted to. But he won't because he seems to enjoy being in a position in which he can judge everyone else for being lazy in comparison to himself. He also puts on this obviously fake polite and friendly facade and tries to engage me with superficial smalltalk and lame old-timer jokes, even though I consistently respond with one word answers and avoid being around him as much as possible.

He asks people to help him out with mundane tasks that he could easily do by himself. But he asks for help because it will get done faster that way. When he asks people to do something, instead of just saying what he wants done, he goes on and on about why it needs to be done and the things that will happen if it doesn't. I tune him out or shut him down by saying "okay, I got it, you don't have to explain" and he gets offended. Oftentimes, when I do something for him, he turns around and criticizes the result, saying next time do it this other way. This aggravates me because if he wanted a particular result, he should have said so in the first place or just done it himself. I seems like he sets me up to make me look stupid, which is probably not the case, but that's how it seems. He is also weirdly obsessive about certain things like the temperature in the house, and will randomly call me from work just to ask me to adjust the thermostat by one degree as if it makes a difference.


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

Regnum said:


> I have a family member who is literally driving me insane. He goes out of his way to do unsolicited favours for people, and then expects them to feel grateful and indebted to him, and becomes resentful when they don't. This really aggravates me because first of all I never ask him for anything, and second of all I would rather he not do anything for me at all if he is just going to hold it over my head or throw it in my face later.
> 
> He also likes to make remarks like "some of us have to work", which he tries to disguise with humour, but I can tell that they are jabs at me. I'm unemployed, but I don't hit him up for money so he has no reason to complain about it. He also complains endlessly about how much he just wants to relax, which is BS because he purposely rushes all the time and makes himself as busy as possible just so he can act like a martyr. He doesn't have to work as much as he does. He could delegate work to his subordinates if he wanted to. But he won't because he seems to enjoy being in a position in which he can judge everyone else for being lazy in comparison to himself. He also puts on this obviously fake polite and friendly facade and tries to engage me with superficial smalltalk and lame old-timer jokes, even though I consistently respond with one word answers and avoid being around him as much as possible.


This is the 2w1. I just came back home to this very same bullshit, so great timing with your post. First she does the work that nobody asks her to do, expecting praise for it (2 fixation on pride), then she criticizes everyone for not working as hard as they should be (1 perfectionism and competence triad workaholic drive). You are constantly made to feel as the moral debtor because you didn't fall into prostration and sing her praises for "all that she has done", and an incompetent good-for-nothing slacker because you haven't done the work that she has gone out of her way to do for you (that mind you nobody has asked her to do it). 2 and 1 is a great mix.

2s are almost always ethical types, and if he is rushing all the time and has trouble relaxing I'd look into extraverted ExFx types, EIE in particular because they like to forewarn of what will happen if something isn't done now, which is meant for their Se-creative LSI duals.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Sylas said:


> This is the 2w1. I just came back home to this very same bullshit, so great timing with your post. First she does the work that nobody asks her to do, expecting praise for it (2 fixation on pride), then she criticizes everyone for not working as hard as they should be (1 perfectionism and competence triad workaholic drive). You are constantly made to feel as the moral debtor because you didn't fall into prostration and sing her praises for "all that she has done", and an incompetent good-for-nothing slacker because you haven't done the work that she has gone out of her way to do for you (that mind you nobody has asked her to do it). 2 and 1 is a great mix.
> 
> 2s are almost always ethical types, and if he is rushing all the time and has trouble relaxing I'd look into extraverted ExFx types, EIE in particular because they like to forewarn of what will happen if something isn't done now, which is meant for their Se-creative LSI duals.


I agree, this sounds like a typical case of an enneagram 2 person. He could also be an alpha type based on some of the commentary the OP made (being more interested the logical process of things, as opposed to its results, focus on temperature) but that's just hypothetical on my part.


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## Regnum (Jul 13, 2016)

Sylas said:


> This is the 2w1. I just came back home to this very same bullshit, so great timing with your post. First she does the work that nobody asks her to do, expecting praise for it (2 fixation on pride), then she criticizes everyone for not working as hard as they should be (1 perfectionism and competence triad workaholic drive). You are constantly made to feel as the moral debtor because you didn't fall into prostration and sing her praises for "all that she has done", and an incompetent good-for-nothing slacker because you haven't done the work that she has gone out of her way to do for you (that mind you nobody has asked her to do it). 2 and 1 is a great mix.
> 
> 2s are almost always ethical types, and if he is rushing all the time and has trouble relaxing I'd look into extraverted ExFx types, EIE in particular because they like to forewarn of what will happen if something isn't done now, which is meant for their Se-creative LSI duals.


LOL, glad I'm not the only one who finds this annoying. Luckily for me, I don't fall for his guilt trips, but other people do. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate unsolicited favours, but only when there are no strings attached. When people assume that their unsolicited favours will somehow bind me into some invisible contract with them, it has the opposite effect of just pissing me off and making me rebel lol. If you want people to do something, just tell them to do it and they'll either say yes or no. Call me crazy if you will, but that just seems like basic respect. As for the warnings, an example from yesterday might help:

Him: These bananas are very ripe. You should eat them soon.
Me: I plan to.
Him: Because it's hot today, and they'll go bad.
Me: Ok I will.
Him: And they attract fruit flies.
Me: *laughs*
Him: No, I'm serious. We don't want fruit flies in here.
Me: I know. (thinks "that's obviously not going to happen, and even if it did I'm sure we would survive")
Him: Ya, so just make sure you eat them.
Me: I said I would. *sounds irritated*
Him: Why are you mad? I just don't want to have to pay for an exterminator.
Me: Whatever dude. *leaves in order to avoid punching him out*

I already said I would eat the stupid bananas, so why did he keep trying to convince me to eat them?


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Regnum said:


> Him: These bananas are very ripe. You should eat them soon.
> Me: I plan to.
> Him: Because it's hot today, and they'll go bad.
> Me: Ok I will.
> ...


Also sounds a bit self-pres/6ish (disaster prevention!) Based on this 2 or 6, no idea about Socionics


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

Regnum said:


> LOL, glad I'm not the only one who finds this annoying. Luckily for me, I don't fall for his guilt trips, but other people do. Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate unsolicited favours, but only when there are no strings attached. When people assume that their unsolicited favours will somehow bind me into some invisible contract with them, it has the opposite effect of just pissing me off and making me rebel lol. If you want people to do something, just tell them to do it and they'll either say yes or no. Call me crazy if you will, but that just seems like basic respect. As for the warnings, an example from yesterday might help:
> 
> Him: These bananas are very ripe. You should eat them soon.
> Me: I plan to.
> ...


He is probably an SF type based on this conversation. I've had similar exchanges with my 2w1 SF relative. He kept pestering you because you didn't eat them immediately right in front of his eyes. If he's a sensing type, that's the only thing that would have sufficed for him. Saying that you'll do it and then not actually doing it right away doesn't provide him with any certainty that it will happen, so until he sees those bananas disappear with his own eyes he'll keep bugging you about it.

This is why sensing is associated with "pressuring" in classical socionics. Usually it's attributed to Se, but I've seen Si types do this plenty of times. They kind of shrink time and collapse all the possibilities into some concrete outcome - usually by means of pushing you to do something specific right away instead of waiting, putting it off, only saying you'll do it and leaving it up to words. They'll push themselves also, which to them is a normal lifestyle. But if you're an intuitive type this ordeal feels like they are needlessly pressuring you. The more sensing they have - the stronger this pressuring effect, the more they collapse the time and the less they wait. In some situations this is great, if you're an intuitive type procrastinating on some work or assignment and need some kicks to get going, but in many other instances it makes no sense, just lots of fuss over something minor, and this is extremely annoying.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

My SEI room mate does this sometimes.


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## Regnum (Jul 13, 2016)

Sylas said:


> He is probably an SF type based on this conversation. I've had similar exchanges with my 2w1 SF relative. He kept pestering you because you didn't eat them immediately right in front of his eyes. If he's a sensing type, that's the only thing that would have sufficed for him. Saying that you'll do it and then not actually doing it right away doesn't provide him with any certainty that it will happen, so until he sees those bananas disappear with his own eyes he'll keep bugging you about it.
> 
> This is why sensing is associated with "pressuring" in classical socionics. Usually it's attributed to Se, but I've seen Si types do this plenty of times. They kind of shrink time and collapse all the possibilities into some concrete outcome - usually by means of pushing you to do something specific right away instead of waiting, putting it off, only saying you'll do it and leaving it up to words. They'll push themselves also, which to them is a normal lifestyle. But if you're an intuitive type this ordeal feels like they are needlessly pressuring you. The more sensing they have - the stronger this pressuring effect, the more they collapse the time and the less they wait. In some situations this is great, if you're an intuitive type procrastinating on some work or assignment and need some kicks to get going, but in many other instances it makes no sense, just lots of fuss over something minor, and this is extremely annoying.


I think if he is an alpha SF, then he must be ESE rather than SEI. There's no way in hell he's an IP temperament. He is the most Type-A personality I have ever met. He is always stomping around the house like he's on a mission or something, slamming objects instead of just placing them. His energy is very tense and rigid. And yeah, he cannot just take me at my word when I say I will do something. Instead, I keep getting "friendly reminders" until it actually happens. And I'm just like why does everything have to be done "right now"? As I said, he does talk about wanting to relax and his conscious behaviour seems geared towards creating a comfortable environment for himself and others. That's apparently why he "sacrifices himself" everyday at work.

I have trouble seeing him as an ethical type though because he easily handles all of those mind-numbing but necessary logistical things like taxes, bills, and repairs (and just loves to remind everyone about it), but he seems terrible with people unless it has to do with business. His gf wants to leave him because he would always come home from work and go straight to the computer to work some more. And if she complained about it he would play victim by throwing the fact that he "works his fingers to the bone" in her face.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Hell, even IEI could do this according to some. It depends on what the reason is.

Here is one guy's conception of what an IEI-D (Dominant subtype) would look like, and how they would "push" people in a way that matches what you are talking about.

Julian Assange - Study of IEI-D


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

Regnum said:


> I think if he is an alpha SF, then he must be ESE rather than SEI. There's no way in hell he's an IP temperament. He is the most Type-A personality I have ever met. He is always stomping around the house like he's on a mission or something, slamming objects instead of just placing them. His energy is very tense and rigid.


Why not Gamma SF then? What you said about him stomping around and slamming objects is descriptive of Se-ISxjs. Alpha SFs are usually gentler, more smooth going and careful with how they handle objects (or people around them). Sudden impact is more in the style and values of Se, and the Se subtype usually overdoes it in situations when they need to apply force.

This is from the Se-ISTj profile: 

Flaring up, he can become unduly sharp and absolutist in his statements. Occasionally he tries to amend the situation and smiles with kindness and charm. He walks at a rapid pace, placing his feet as if he is "stamping" the ground. ​
LSI subtypes - Wikisocion



> And yeah, he cannot just take me at my word when I say I will do something. Instead, I keep getting "friendly reminders" until it actually happens. And I'm just like why does everything have to be done "right now"? As I said, he does talk about wanting to relax and his conscious behaviour seems geared towards creating a comfortable environment for himself and others. That's apparently why he "sacrifices himself" everyday at work.


Sounds like a sensing subtype.



> I have trouble seeing him as an ethical type though because he easily handles all of those mind-numbing but necessary logistical things like taxes, bills, and repairs (and just loves to remind everyone about it), but he seems terrible with people unless it has to do with business. His gf wants to leave him because he would always come home from work and go straight to the computer to work some more. And if she complained about it he would play victim by throwing the fact that he "works his fingers to the bone" in her face.


My SF 2w1 relative rents out several properties and readily handles things like repairs, bills, and taxes. If she cannot do something with her own hands, she hires workcrews and then organizes and actively manager them, so they do things for her like fixing the roof or building outhouses that she cannot do herself under her guidance. She is very attentive to money matters, but I wouldn't say it's the number one priority for her. She seems to love to work and keeping busy for the sake of working and being busy. She also keeps reminding me to take care of these things, and I usually get at least 3 reminders about taxes when the tax filing due date draws near. I think it might be a part of her 1-wing since 1s usually handle data, statistics, numbers with ease, and are usually organized and exact, which extends to their finances. She also likes writings lists of things she needs to do for the next day, and will criticize people if they omit or forget something, lose or misplace some item.

Other options would be either 1w2 or 3w2 in which case this person could be an ST type. Though 3w2s are rarely critical and picky to the degree that you describe, and 1/2 seems to fit the profile closer. Something like Se-LSI 1w2 or Se-ESI 2w1 could be a match.


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## Regnum (Jul 13, 2016)

I came to the conclusion that he is an LSE. Every single word of these descriptions apply to him:

Logical-Sensory Extratim - ESTj (The Director)

Socionics - the16types.info - ESTj The Administrator profile by Gulenko


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