# Doubting ALL THE THINGS!



## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

So yeah pretty much doubting every part of my personality type haha except maybe the S, I think I've established with reasonable certainty I'm a sensor.

But I'm now wondering if I use Fe-Ti rather that Fi-Te.
Some people have suggested I might be and ISTP or an ISFJ which both use that axis.

I'm also wondering if I'm an extravert. I typed myself over the last couple of years because I basically went a bit hermit like, but I was also grieving. But most people tell me I'm in extravert, and also, when I look at how I was as a child and teen (as @KalimofDaybreak suggested), I was a lot more extraverted. I loved performing, I always wanted to spend time with my friends, I wanted attention from people and approval from people. A fair amount of my self growth journey so far has been learning to be quieter and a bit more thoughtful. Though I do think before I speak, I don't know if that's how I was as a kid (I can't really remember).
Also, now that I'm feeling more myself, I'm realising that if I spend two or three days at home with just my husband, I actually get really lonely and depressed. I need community really badly and at the moment I'm actively making choices in my life to increase my level of community (as in relationships where I see the same group of people more often, rather than just seeing one friend on day, another the next, all one on one and never with any regularity, which is how it has been the last five years or so).
I work in an extremely social job which takes up a lot of my "people time", but I still feel the need for more close connection. I suppose this could be introversion or extraversion depending how you look at it.
However with ideas I do have to take them away and stew over them for a long time before making decisions. Which maybe is introverted? Maybe that just means I have an introverted judging function?

I was also wondering if @Kitty23 could weigh in as I've seen your comments on other threads and they seem helpful.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Hello!  yes, you want to type yourself based on your natural self. So think back to childhood, before you became influenced by others and experiences. 

Fi and Ti can sometime be tricky to differentiate. 

Ti: No one is more qualified to determine the truth than myself.

Fi: No one is more qualified to determine what is morally right than myself. 

Ti has to rationalize. Fi has to reflect. Ti reflects on logic. Fi reflects on morality. 

Ti-Fe types, such as INTP’s, are likely to believe a person must use reason to consider what the correct solution is. They are likely to believe that the solution based on reason is the morally just one. This goes for Fe-Ti (INFJ) to a much lesser degree since the “common good” is prioritized and the reason is secondary. Fe-Ti (INFJ) might use reason to advocate for the common good.

Te-Fi types, such as ISTJ’s and INTJ’s are likely to believe that a person can discern what is morally correct through objective facts and by reflecting upon individualized principles. They are likely to believe that the best solution is the solution represented by facts outside of them. Fi-Te (INFP’s) has this to a lesser degree. They are no less capable, but they prioritize the “rightness” discovered within themselves. They make appeals to facts in the outside world.

Introverted Thinking- Ti is all about classifying things. It likes to give them names and put them in little boxes. Extraverted thinking- Te is more conceptual. It looks at how things relate to one another. So while introverted thinking focuses on separating things into their unique parts, extraverted thinking focuses on organizing things into a unified whole. Ti is subjective and private. You can see the Ti user’s results but not hear their thinking process. Ti is never stumped by a problem, but will instead find some way to “rig it” and solve it. Stuck in a room? Ti will find a way out.

Extraverted Thinking- Te always is objective. It also gets stumped by the facts if there is no obvious, logical solution. Locked in a room with no way out? Te can’t fix it. But Te can make a crap-load of money and knows how to plan for success.

Te gets sh!t done. Ti wants to know what sh!t is.

Te is objective reasoning. The car is blue. 

Ti is subjective reasoning. How does a car work? 

Telling them apart (rough outline) … depends on where they are in the functional stack.

Te as 1st function- Te-dom? The boss in the room. The planner. The organizer. Big money maker. Driven to success. Annoyed by “lazy” people.

Ti as first function- Ti-dom? Not the boss in the room. The guy in the corner who just took apart something and put it back together. 
Or sat listening to your argument and then dismantled it with one well-placed logical question. The problem solver who laughs when other people are stumped. 

Te as second function- Aux-Te? Blunt. To the point. Motivated to accomplish. Natural planner. Can tell other people what to do and how to do it. Expects results. Motivated by money and success… but not inclined to be “the boss” unless forced.

Ti as second function- Aux-Ti? Problem solver. Doesn’t see any factual impasse as troubling. Quietly analyzes a situation and does something about it. Isn’t motivated by success so much as deeper understanding. 

Te as third function- Tert-Te? Fi controls it and dampens it, but it’s still blunt. Motivated to do stuff. Make plans. Organize their environment and other people. Bossiness. 

Ti as third function- Tert-Ti? Self-analyzes and sharpens Fe, but Fe dominates it. More interested in knowing why something happened than in organizing the external world. 

Te as 4th function- Inferior-Te? Weak. Under-developed. Can become obstinate and dig in its heels when Fi is pushed too far or challenged. Turns blunt if annoyed. Finds satisfaction from productivity and motivates the user to complete task. The user has a tendency to be bossy and controlling if Te is used too much.

Ti as 4th function- Inferior Ti? Weak. Under-developed. Can become intensely critical of others’ logic and self-conscious if Fe is battered around. Gets angry and defensive if forced into a corner. Unconcerned with financial gain. 

Difference between Fe and Te:

Dr. Phil is an ESTJ. If you want classic hard-knocks Te-telling-people-off, go watch some of his interview clips on YouTube. This one is the first one I ran across, and it’s hilarious how he responds… total Te. THESE ARE THE FACTS. Here is another clip where he asserts just who is boss, whose show it is, what they are going to talk about, and where he stands with a guest. 

Oprah is a Fe-dom (likely ESFJ, though she’s typed ENFJ a lot online). I tried to find the James Frey original interview with Oprah where she really nailed him (as she puts it, she was attacking him not only for herself, but “the millions of people who read your book and thought it was real”) but I can’t seem to locate it. Boo. But here’s a quick clip with Lindsay Lohan where she lays down the Fe. Basically, cut your BS, get your act together, etc. But it also comes with Fe: you’re better than this, I know you can do it, you have a good heart. 

Do you want to create artwork/write a novel mostly for yourself or others?

Do you care more about maintaining group harmony and generally follow the group's values or follow your OWN strict moral code and all hell will break lose if someone violates a value of yours? 

When empathizing do you feel/absorb the other person's raw emotions or put yourself in their shoes first?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Kitty23 said:


> Hello!  yes, you want to type yourself based on your natural self. So think back to childhood, before you became influenced by others and experiences.
> 
> Fi and Ti can sometime be tricky to differentiate.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I would say I now reflect more on morality than logic, but as a child I loved logic. My dad introduced me to science, ethics, and logic early on. I loved going through my puzzle and logic books, doing the puzzles in the newspaper even though I was bad at them. My dad talked to me about ethics often, but IIRC it was usually him that brought up ethics and me that brought up questions like "if there are multiple universes, what's in between the universes?". I also loved jokes and wordplay, riddles etc. But I was and am pretty indiscriminate with my jokes - I just laugh at everything. Although I especially love puns. I've also always been interested in philosophy.



Kitty23 said:


> Ti-Fe types, such as INTP’s, are likely to believe a person must use reason to consider what the correct solution is. They are likely to believe that the solution based on reason is the morally just one. This goes for Fe-Ti (INFJ) to a much lesser degree since the “common good” is prioritized and the reason is secondary. Fe-Ti (INFJ) might use reason to advocate for the common good.
> 
> Te-Fi types, such as ISTJ’s and INTJ’s are likely to believe that a person can discern what is morally correct through objective facts and by reflecting upon individualized principles. They are likely to believe that the best solution is the solution represented by facts outside of them. Fi-Te (INFP’s) has this to a lesser degree. They are no less capable, but they prioritize the “rightness” discovered within themselves. They make appeals to facts in the outside world.


I guess I do the second one more... I definitely make appeals to facts in the outside world, like how much money something costs - although come to think of it, I usually only do that because someone else has brought it up first (like, if they complain about how much it costs to take in asylum seekers and that's why we can't do it, I'll be like "oh yeah? Well if money is the issue, guess how much our detention centres cost us?"). But before that, I'd usually say it's wrong or right because, well, how would you want to be treated? So don't treat others like that. You think it's bad to do such and such? I agree, so we shouldn't stoop to their level, we should maintain our own integrity (that is my stance on revenge/retribution).
Or another example is the death penalty. I think the death penalty is wrong because I don't believe taking human life is ever right (and see about about retribution, which is essentially what the death penalty is). I also believe in the possibility of redemption for everyone. But part of the reason I don't like it, and what I use to argue against it, is how many people get wrongly convicted. So even if someone believed in the death penalty, they shouldn't be for it realistically because of that external fact. 
I think these examples show Fi-Te?



Kitty23 said:


> Introverted Thinking- Ti is all about classifying things. It likes to give them names and put them in little boxes. Extraverted thinking- Te is more conceptual. It looks at how things relate to one another. So while introverted thinking focuses on separating things into their unique parts, extraverted thinking focuses on organizing things into a unified whole. Ti is subjective and private. You can see the Ti user’s results but not hear their thinking process. Ti is never stumped by a problem, but will instead find some way to “rig it” and solve it. Stuck in a room? Ti will find a way out.
> 
> Extraverted Thinking- Te always is objective. It also gets stumped by the facts if there is no obvious, logical solution. Locked in a room with no way out? Te can’t fix it. But Te can make a crap-load of money and knows how to plan for success.
> 
> ...


Well this one is Ti all the way. As a kid I loved doing stuff like sorting all my candy into colours before eating it. I love stuff like linguistics because of the classification systems, and I was told as a kid once that I was good at "splitting hairs". I'm also pretty good at rigging stuff up out of nothing - far better than I am at using things just as they are meant to be used. I definitely don't know how to get shit done/plan for success/work the system. 



Kitty23 said:


> Telling them apart (rough outline) … depends on where they are in the functional stack.
> 
> Te as 1st function- Te-dom? The boss in the room. The planner. The organizer. Big money maker. Driven to success. Annoyed by “lazy” people.
> 
> ...


Te first: nope haha so no!
Ti first: rings a few bells. I like taking stuff apart (something else I did as a kid), but am not always good at putting it back together again (once a friend left a toy phone at my house and I have a very clear memory of being curious about how it worked, taking it all apart, and then feeling really guilty because I didn't know how to put it back together again and it wasn't even my property). I enjoy analytical arguments but I wouldn't say I was good at them.
Te aux - no, except I can be quite good at delegating and can sometimes be bossy when in the right mood.
Ti aux - I've never thought of myself as a problem solver, and with physical stuff I'm not really as I don't have the know how. But sometimes I can think through a problem and sort it out quite well. I get very proud of myself when I have done that (usually in the context of sorting out a solution for a customer).
Te tert -occasionally. I enjoy organising things sometimes. See above re: occasional bossiness. I'm awful at making Te type plans. Sometimes I make social plans (like planning a party) but people often don't show which makes me really sad - it could be because I often do it at short notice and am shy about selling it to people for fear of annoying them.
Tert-Ti - self analysis sounds familiar. I like to know the why and am not particularly interested in organising the outside world. That's definitely how I was as a kid.
inferior Te - maybe? I'm not sure about this one. I know I start noticing dirt and need to clean and organise when faced with substantial stress.
Inferior Ti -Angry if forced into a corner, yes. Unconcerned with financial gain, yes.



Kitty23 said:


> Difference between Fe and Te:
> 
> Dr. Phil is an ESTJ. If you want classic hard-knocks Te-telling-people-off, go watch some of his interview clips on YouTube. This one is the first one I ran across, and it’s hilarious how he responds… total Te. THESE ARE THE FACTS. Here is another clip where he asserts just who is boss, whose show it is, what they are going to talk about, and where he stands with a guest.
> 
> Oprah is a Fe-dom (likely ESFJ, though she’s typed ENFJ a lot online). I tried to find the James Frey original interview with Oprah where she really nailed him (as she puts it, she was attacking him not only for herself, but “the millions of people who read your book and thought it was real”) but I can’t seem to locate it. Boo. But here’s a quick clip with Lindsay Lohan where she lays down the Fe. Basically, cut your BS, get your act together, etc. But it also comes with Fe: you’re better than this, I know you can do it, you have a good heart.





Kitty23 said:


> 1. Do you want to create artwork/write a novel mostly for yourself or others?
> 
> 2. Do you care more about maintaining group harmony and generally follow the group's values or follow your OWN strict moral code and all hell will break lose if someone violates a value of yours?
> 
> 3. When empathizing do you feel/absorb the other person's raw emotions or put yourself in their shoes first?


1. Both? I feel the need to express myself but I also want what I express to reach others and impact them positively, eventually (that's for writing. Art is just for me, but that's something I've come to later in life and I use it to relax/work through stuff).

2. I think group harmony. It depends though. With family and friends I'd say harmony. At work I have been known to flare up when I felt people were being unfairly treated in group training sessions. I probably wouldn't describe it as all hell breaking loose though. I've definitely been the one to "smooth things over" in groups - mostly by trying to keep conversation light and away from touchy subjects though. I'll have my own opinions but keep them to myself. I try to repair a broken mood or atmosphere because it is more comfortable for me. I don't actually like to confront people's issues.

3. If they're right there emoting at me or if emotions are coming strongly off them (or perhaps if I imagine they are?), then I feel like I am absorbing. It can be very uncomfortable and sometimes I have to remove myself from the area. If someo
Sometimes I don't get that though, and have to think and put myself in the other person's shoes. If I have never experienced something, sometimes it can be hard for me to empathise (especially if the person is not telling me about it themselves, but I am for example reading a report of it or something).


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Oh I forgot to reply about the videos, watching them now...

I couldn't find your links (?) but I found one where Dr Phil interviews a woman who pushed her husband out of the window.
Although I would probably never act like he does, I feel some affinity to the way he deals with facts. I can also see how he uses Fi to get into the situation (like, "yeah, I would have gotten in his face and yelled "you're a coward").

I found a clip of the Oprah/Lindsay interview. I was impressed and inspired by how she put her message across. I'd try to do it like that, I think. But I don't think I'd do it as skillfully. But that's definitely the one I resonate with more - trying to find common ground with the person, build them up, rather than being antagonistic and challenging them. Sometimes I think I come across as challenging though, because I will say something direct or straight and it will come out sounding different to how I wanted it to sound.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Oh no sorry! that bit about Oprah and Doctor Phil I found on Funky mbti. So no videos. But I'm glad you found the videos!  It sounds like so far you are a Fe and Ti user. 
How warm and bubbly do you come off to others? 
Do you like to talk about your feelings with others or deal with them on your own? 
Do you sometimes not know what you are feeling until you talk about your feelings with someone else? Or do you always know exactly how you feel? 

Just how spontaneous and impulsive are you? Do you want to live in the right now? and are a thrill seeker? Do you want immediate gratification? Do you like to discover as you go without a plan? Are you good at improvising? Do you seek adventures? Do you seek freedom and avoid commitments/routine? 

Or do you like to stick to proven methods and compare present situations to the past? Do you like to have a plan? You are not impulsive and probably wouldn't do so good at improvising? Do you think adventures are ok on TV but not so much for me? How sentimental are you? Do you like everything your room to have it's own place? Do you like routine and have no problem with commitments?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Kitty23 said:


> 1. Do you like to talk about your feelings with others or deal with them on your own?
> 2. Do you sometimes not know what you are feeling until you talk about your feelings with someone else? Or do you always know exactly how you feel?
> 
> 3. Just how spontaneous and impulsive are you? Do you want to live in the right now? and are a thrill seeker? Do you want immediate gratification? Do you like to discover as you go without a plan? Are you good at improvising? Do you seek adventures? Do you seek freedom and avoid commitments/routine?
> Or do you like to stick to proven methods and compare present situations to the past? Do you like to have a plan? You are not impulsive and probably wouldn't do so good at improvising? Do you think adventures are ok on TV but not so much for me? How sentimental are you? Do you like everything your room to have it's own place? Do you like routine and have no problem with commitments?


1. I like to try to deal with them on my own, but I often feel the need to talk to others. I'm not good at being open with my feelings although I sometimes want to, I normally end up talking about them in an awkward way, or talking about my thoughts about my feelings if that makes sense? Like I will analyse my feelings to people rather than talking through my feelings. I often talk about my feelings with my partner though, I'm close enough to him that it's OK. Dealing with my feelings on my own sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. I have found that art helps.

2. I hardly ever know how I feel until I think it through or talk about it with someone. Yes sometimes the act of talking makes me realise how I feel. Or writing it out. Or just stopping and thinking to myself as well. Because of the way I was brought up, my ability to put names to my feelings was sort of retarded (like as in my ability to do it was dampened). I had to learn how to do it as an adult with counselling. I don't know if that corellates with a F/T difference or if I could be Fe despite it, do you know what I mean?

3. I can be spontaneous. I get distracted easily and want to run off and try new things. I definitely seek adventures. I've gone on holidays and trips before pretty much on the spur of the moment, although I will plan in the interim time between deciding to go and actually getting on the plane. I am good at improvising, yes, in many circumstances, although physical threats make me panic a bit at first (my SJ husband is much better at dealing with stuff like that). But if I'm not in danger, I'm great at improvisation. It's part of my job and I really enjoy it. Yes I seek freedom from routine. I have learnt to restrict myself as I mature and have found some satisfaction in it (mostly thanks again to my husband), but still am not comfortable planning and scheduling my life.
I do feel comfortable setting times and dates for socialising with friends, and get upset if they cancel too often on me (like I have one friend who cancels probably half of the time and that gets to me after a while, because I've blocked out a time for them and they haven't respected that - I've discovered I'm pretty big on respect. If I don't feel respected by a friend I can't feel that close to them.) My husband sometimes decides last minute he doesn't want to do some social thing we've organised and that really upsets me as well (I suppose he could be ISTP but he strongly identifies with ISTJ in pretty much every description. He has a very clear sense of self unlike me). I'm not sure why it upsets me though, I think it's the feeling of upset in the social arena, like letting down friends and family, as opposed to the disruption to my plans per se.

I do often compare present situations to past. I think that might just be sensor thing? I like to have things not necessarily in set places but all looking nice if I can although I'm usually too lazy to keep things that tidy. I have a beautiful dresser in my room that I've set up just how I want it to look all nice. That sometimes gets messy too but it's probably the one thing I like to have just so. Otherwise I'll just chuck everything into storage baskets.
Overall I feel more close to the first set of statements.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

It sounds like you either use Se or lower Si. And either lower Fe or higher Fi. I would guess you are a P type. So far I'm still seeing Ti, Si, and Fe. 

Do you like to go on adventures with your ideas or on real physical adventures? 
Do you daydream? If so are the daydreams more fantasy oriented or about things from real life?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Kitty23 said:


> It sounds like you either use Se or lower Si. And either lower Fe or higher Fi. I would guess you are a P type. So far I'm still seeing Ti, Si, and Fe.
> 
> Do you like to go on adventures with your ideas or on real physical adventures?
> Do you daydream? If so are the daydreams more fantasy oriented or about things from real life?


I like to go on real physical adventures - hiking, climbing, kayaking etc. I used to daydream a lot, usually I would be doing something, like swimming in the pool, and pretending I was a mermaid or something like that. I never really just sat and daydreamed. As a kid I would sit and read, or sit and write, usually my writing was based on the environment around me.
As an adult I don't daydream, but I think about ideas, like philosophy or about things that are happening in my life. I come up with ideas for stories as well, I guess that's kind of daydreaming. Usually the ideas are based on something real, normally a location and then thinking about what type of person or event might occur in a location like that.

Oh PS in answer to an earlier question I forgot: I can be quite bubbly. My face is actually very expressive -a lot more expressive than I usually realise, in fact.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

How about who are you at a theme park? This question you might want ask others what they think. 

Extroverted Sensing (Se) is busy noticing all the details of the park and the people in it. Sights. Sounds. Colors. Oh, cool. That ride flips upside down! I’m going to try that. Do you smell those hotdogs? Aren’t they great? I think we ought to go bungee jumping… it’s only $50 for a group of $12! Which way is the Tower of Terror? I’m going to ride down it and watch all you sissies wet your pants when it drops 50 feet in 12 seconds!

Extroverted Intuition (Ne) sees the possibilities of the park. Look at those two people. You can tell they’re not “together” anymore, but just hanging out for the kid’s sake. See their body language? How many rides are in this park? Do you think anyone ever died here? I think they should put a new ride in this space. Call it the Haunted House of Horrors, and have Dead Presidents in it. You know, they could put up an entire haunted SECTION of the park. That would be awesome. Who do I call to pitch that idea? Stay away from the guy in the red hat. He gives me vibes. Ooh, you know, I could write a story about a murder in a theme park! He could die because the Tilt a Whirl malfunctioned. No, no, because the Tower of Terror ride didn’t stop, it crashed the elevator to the bottom floor! His sister did it. No, his uncle! No, the theme park guy, because he’s freakin’ insane.

Extroverted Thinking (Te) is busy organizing others and coming up with “battle plans.” Which direction do we go first? Give me the park map. Okay, where do we want to be by noon? When and where do we meet for lunch? Who is in charge of watching the kid? Which rides do what? When is the bus leaving? What do we have time for? How long are the lines? Okay, everyone who wants to go on these twelve rides, line up to the left! Everyone else to the right! We meet back here at 7pm! No stragglers! Does everyone have their phone on? Good!

Extroverted Feeling (Fe) makes sure everyone feels involved and has their needs met. Does everyone have a buddy? Nobody should be alone! Let’s go to the bathroom first, okay? How do we feel about hamburgers for lunch? Is that okay? Let’s meet over there, shall we? Does everyone know the plan, so no one is left behind? Let’s take a vote on which direction to go first! Fe will go on a ride it doesn’t like so a friend doesn’t have to do it alone.

Introverted Sensing (Si) relates everything around them to past experience. Last time I was here, I threw up on that ride; I’m not going on it again. Oh, hey, that’s the bench I sat on when so-and-so kissed me! Oh, good, the line is shorter this year. Why does this slushie taste different? I think they put less cherry cola in it than before! I feel ripped off. OR… I’ve never been to a theme park before, but that Ferris wheel reminds me of that scene in The Notebook, when Noah won’t take no for an answer, until Allie agrees to go on a date with him…

Introverted Intuition (Ni) knows what will happen before it happens. I’m going to take a step back, because that kid is going to spill his slushie all over – yup, there it goes. I know which ride I want to go on. I’ve thought about it all week. I’m going to have an awesome time on that ride. I’m going there first. Wait, there are other rides? I didn’t even notice! I was busy fixating on getting to the head of the line! Ha, Marsha better not go on that thing, she’ll hurl—yep, there she goes.

Introverted Thinking (Ti) is busy analyzing how the rides work and what makes the most sense. If I go this way, the path winds around past what I want to see, and by the time we’re to meet up, I’ll have been all the way around the park. I won’t have to walk back, or rush from one side of the park to the other. Wait, why are they all walking in the opposite direction? Don’t they know this is the logical way to do it? If you go that way, you’ll engage in needless walking and won’t be able to get through the line in front of the House of Mirrors.

Introverted Feeling (Fi) decides which direction to go based on what is important to them. I’m going on this ride. No, it’s okay, I can go by myself. I don’t need you to come along unless you want to. I’m serious. I’m not afraid to do it alone. I’m not feeling the burgers, either. You all go ahead. I’m going to dash over to that taco stand. Nope, not going on that ride. You can beg all you want, I won’t do it. I’m scared of heights. Not a chance, bud. Drop it.


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

I don't go to fairgrounds all that much and I'm a bit of a wuss, but Se, Ti, Si and Fi all sound a bit like me (Ti only when I'm in a certain mood though... I'd be more likely to act that way in say a market place or something where I had an objective. If the goal is to just enjoy my day out I won't care as much about that sort of thing). Maybe Ne a little bit, like riffing ideas off something I see, but not to the extreme that comes across in the description - like it wouldn't be all I think about.
My husband says he's not sure but he thinks maybe Fi.
Are there any other examples for a different scenario?
Edit: I don't know the more I read these the more I see myself in them.

I can tell you which ones I definitely DON'T see myself in: Fe and Te. So I guess all I can get from that is I'm not an extraverted judger.

Gee that was so unhelpful, I'm sorry!


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Ok. So if your husband thinks Fi and you saw Se in yourself, then maybe ISFP? 

How about which functions would you use to write a novel?

"Te: Write an outline with an estimated word count and charted plot points / progression for each subsequent chapter.

Ti: Invent a logically consistent world that makes sense from a narrative point of view, and perhaps go some way in inventing languages along the way.

Fe: Decide what emotional impact you want your novel to have, and find an appropriate way to express difficult themes without alienating the reader.

Fi: Find a theme that resonates with a deep personal belief or experience, and write it mostly for yourself.


Ne: Start writing. After a few chapters you wind up with 45 main characters and subsequent plot lines all running simultaneously. 


Ni: Spend months and even years visualizing every element of your highly conceptual story, then sit down and write it without much revision. 


Se: Emphasis is on impacting sentences and intense experiences for the reader. Sensory details are devoid of emotional sentiment.

Si: Focuses on those archetypes and themes that are significant to you, often supplemented by a vast library of reading experience. Natural sense of plot structure.

Combine these and you can see how writers tap into different functions. Something I have noticed is that N writers often incorporate description to try and ground their story or make it seem more real, whereas sensor writers usually tap into their intuitive functions to branch out into unexplored territories. Feelers might dip into thinking to structure their worlds with logic and/or explore different principles, just as thinkers might explore emotions through their writing. 

Often our lower functions are how we “play” so we access them during writing. "


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

I seem to combine mostly Ti and Fe, with a bit of Ne (I'm doing that with one novel I'm writing at the moment. I started with a theme and a basic idea for overarching plot, then just started writing. I find I'm weaving in new characters as I go and the different characters are doing different things, but all their goals are pretty much the same and I have an idea of how the plotlines are coming together at the start. So it feels like a touch of Ne but not to the extreme you mentioned, like a bit disorganised and random, but with underlying structure that guides it generally).

I also use Fi and/or Si - but I'm unclear on how those two are different in this case? They both sound the same to me, except that Si has done more reading, though I think all writers should be informed by their previous reading as that's an important part of how you learn the technical skills. And I don't write for myself exactly... well I write because I want to write, I want to express the way that I see the world. But ultimately I hope that that expression will have an influence on how others see the world. My ultimate goal in my writing is for other people to see the beauty of the world as I do, aesthetically (which is usually what my poetry is about), or to express my views on the ethics of social systems such as politics, trade systems, war, hierarchies etc., and how they impact people.

Also, when I'm actually doing the writing, I tend to do a lot of Se in the sense that I will have an image/idea of a scene and write that very vividly to try and get a sensory impact. Then I link up the scenes. The only thing is, that I am trying to have an emotional impact with what I write most of the time. But I don't see how Se is necessarily divorced from emotions? Excitement is an important emotion that Se is usually linked with, isn't it? 

This time the two that are definitely not are Te and Ni.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

So far I do see you as a sensor. So I would say you need to figure out if you use Se or Si. Which fictional characters do you identity with?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Kitty23 said:


> So far I do see you as a sensor. So I would say you need to figure out if you use Se or Si. Which fictional characters do you identity with?


Kaylee from Firefly for sure, the way she savours her sensory reality, and her general temperament most of the time. I'm similar to her in that it's pretty easy for me to panic in bad situations, but I'll eventually just get on with it and do what I have to do.

I also identify a bit with Nanny Ogg from Terry Pratchett's Discworld.

I identify with Jason Bourne but it's not in the obvious way... like I'm obviously not as awesome and badass as him, but I identify with his emotional journey through the three movies.

That's all I can think of right now.

The Biblical characters I identify with most are Simon Peter the disciple and Jacob/Israel (except I'm not as deceptive as Jacob was but I feel like I could be pretty easily if I was more morally bankrupt haha).


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Kaylee from Firefly- probably ESFP

Jason Bourne- probably ISTP

Simon Peter- probably ENFP

Jacob- probably ISTP 

Three of them use a lot of Se. Which makes me think you probably do too.

This site describes the functions really well:

http://infj-mbti.tumblr.com/post/117102803823/have-you-ever-explained-cognitive-functions-if

Do any of the functions resonate for you?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

I just googled Nanny Ogg and someone typed her as ENFP but I don't think she uses Ne... I think she's more likely ESFP or even ESFJ except she has a disregard for the rules.

Here's what I resonate with from the post you linked:

Se: pretty much all of the first half of it, and the second half to some extent. I was more reckless when I was younger.

Si: past oriented, and take pride in preserving tradition. Even when looking at future circumstances, they think of them in an Si view, asking “What will I think of this when it is in the past? Will I regret it?” dislike change (sometimes - get upset when I go through big life changes, even if I want and initiate them I usually find it harder to adjust than I thought I would.

Ne: they may bring up seemingly random ideas, stories, etc. in a conversation, because their mind jumps to other connections. they will want to conduct this brainstorming verbally with other people.

Ni: understanding symbolism (I like symbolism although I didn't used to - I hated stuff like that as a teenager in English lit but I've gotten into it more as an adult). 

Fe: They make emotional decisions based on how the group feels and what they value and feel extremely uncomfortable if there is disagreement in their social group (the decision part sometimes, the feeling uncomfortable part most definitely). 
They see morality as something relatively universal, and therefore may come across as judgmental since they may place their moral judgements onto other peoples’ lives. (something I did more when younger). They conform to group behavior, follow social norms, and understand and respect different societies’ culture and laws. (up to a point - I don't agree with many of the laws in my own or other countries) 
However, this is not to say that all Fe-users are fine abandoning their personal beliefs in order to fit in with others. Merely they prefer to reach a group consensus and like the idea of maintaining harmony. (This is 100% true - I always try to harmonise beliefs as much as I can, or rather, I often see beliefs as being in harmony which other people don't see). 
In addition, they are much more dependent on affirmation from others and feel uncomfortable if someone disapproves of their behavior or dislikes them. 

Fi: deep, intense, private experience of emotions, private beliefs and values, and an unwavering allegiance to these ideas (although I probably wouldn't call my allegiance to most of my ideas unwavering). reluctant to share their feelings, and hard to understand (less now than when I was a teenager). wish to understand themselves as an individual outside of society (not that I want to dissociate from society, but I want to make sure that what I believe is ALSO what I really do believe or think of as true, and the roles I take on are not just those given to me by society but things I choose to freely do.

Te: not really anything. While I have become slightly better at organising it will probably always be a struggle to me. I just don't care about stuff like that.

Ti: seeks to understand the world of ideas, to make rational logic judgements in one’s mind. Ti seeks logic and understanding the world by taking the experiences and facts of the outer world and filtering them: Does this make sense? How can I understand this? It has a complicated internal framework of ideas and concepts that may or may not be utilized for outer plans. 
Appreciate wit and intellectual humor, like playing with ideas,
It constantly seeks understanding, taking ideas apart and playing with theories for the sole purpose of understanding them. - to some extent - not necessarily all ideas, but those I am interested in.
Ti is good at focusing on a single problem, figuring out what is wrong and then coming up with a plan to fix it - again, I can do this within my area of expertise.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I would suggest you read these links and watch these videos:

Random Thoughts on Fi vs Fe - Funky MBTI in Fiction

Fi or Fe? - Funky MBTI in Fiction

https://noticethemoonstone.wordpress.com/2015/04/12/cognitive-functions-fi-vs-fe/

Myers & Briggs • Fe vs Fi


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

The first two videos totally confused me and so did a couple of the links, but the second two vids and the second link all strongly made me feel that I use Fe, although the Fi-ishness is in tension with the Fe-ishness, my philosophy generally leans towards Fe-ishness.

The last link seems to contradict some of the other sources... it said that Fe hides what it feels while Fi lets it all out, where the other links and vids seem to say that it is the other way around. 

I definitely identify with parts of both Fe and Fi... in fact in a way it almost feels that the difference between them is almost arbitrary or meaningless to me as I think I use both to make decisions and one would be useless without the other...which could be true or it could be that I just still don't understand the difference. But I guess if I had to choose I would lean slightly more towards Fe.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Well, Fe and Fi users can have the same values. But it's where they come from that makes the difference. Are your values objective or subjective? Do your values come from external sources or internal sources? Do you have values that you absolutely know 100% will never waver? Are you more about morals or values? Are you more EVERYONE deserves to be treated equally? Or do you treat people more so on a case by case basis? Are your values broad or narrow? For example, A person's mother dies of cancer. This person then creates a charity for cancer patients. (Fi)-narrow focus where person was impacted by cancer......A person wants to end world hunger (Fe)- broad focus, where the person absorbs others raw pain first, never been starving themselves.

Fe- wants to end slavery because they absorb the slaves emotions of pain and suffering. It's not based on ethics. It's based on feeling others emotions. 

Fi- wants to end slavery because slavery goes against their values. Slavery is simply "wrong." They use a moral code. 

Fe- is against adultery because it will hurt my loved ones. They feel the pain their going to cause to others. 

Fi- is against adultery because it goes against their moral code. Their heart says "This is wrong." 

Both Fi and Fe are very empathetic, but approach empathy in two different ways. They both feel other's suffering but their tactics are different. Fi user's put themselves in those person's shoes. When empathizing a Fi user will relate by speaking of their own similar struggle. Fe users absorb the person's raw emotions. When empathizing the Fe user will say "Oh no," and "Aww." 

Fe one big motivation= feeling/absorbing other's emotions
Fi one big motivation= following their own ethics


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Kitty23 said:


> Well, Fe and Fi users can have the same values. But it's where they come from that makes the difference. Are your values objective or subjective? Do your values come from external sources or internal sources? Do you have values that you absolutely know 100% will never waver? Are you more about morals or values? Are you more EVERYONE deserves to be treated equally? Or do you treat people more so on a case by case basis? Are your values broad or narrow? For example, A person's mother dies of cancer. This person then creates a charity for cancer patients. (Fi)-narrow focus where person was impacted by cancer......A person wants to end world hunger (Fe)- broad focus, where the person absorbs others raw pain first, never been starving themselves.
> 
> Fe- wants to end slavery because they absorb the slaves emotions of pain and suffering. It's not based on ethics. It's based on feeling others emotions.
> 
> ...


To answer your questions at the start: I don't know if my values are objective or subjective, but I would guess they're a bit of both, and I have a pretty hard time believing anybody has values that are entirely one or the other.

I would say I'm more about values than morals, but that's probably only because I don't like the connotations of the word morals.

I definitely believe everyone should be treated equally but by equal I most certainly do not mean same (e.g. to treat a blind person equally, you actually have to treat them differently... but I don't mean you should treat the person as being different in a value sense, I mean like, they should be allowed to bring their dog into restaurants and things like that. To give the person equal dignity, you have to give them different tools/privileges/assistance etc.).

I think my values are broad more than narrow.

Again, I feel that to some extend I do both Fe and Fi, but on balance I think I would have to lean towards Fe. When I make value decisions I'm thinking about the impact on people. To me, something can't be wrong if it isn't hurting anyone. But it IS wrong if it's only hurting the person that's doing it. I'm not just pulling the value decision out of my hat in a "I just feel this is right/wrong" sort of way. Because I might feel all sorts of things, and they might be wrong or they might be right. You can't really tell until you test it by reasoning it out or looking at the ramifications.

So I suppose that would put me in the Fe-Ti camp.

Edit: except I'm still kind of confused, because I don't think slavery should end because I'm feeling the slaves emotions (unless I was actually there with a slave, then I might feel her emotions), I think it should end because I KNOW for a fact that it hurts people. So that seems like neither Fi nor Fe to me.

Like, I'm not particularly offended by the idea of temporary, voluntary indentured servitude as a means of paying off debts in a pre-industrial society, although I think it's totally inappropriate in today's economy. So it's not like I'm using Fi to just know I hate slavery of any kind. I definitely have a sense that it's to do with social systems and the impact on others, but it's not just because I feel sad that I want slavery to end. It's because it's objectively wrong to violate other people and damage them, we know it's objectively wrong because of the ramifications on people who it's happened to, and the ramifications on the people who are doing the slave trading. Nothing really good comes out of it, the slaves are unhappy and traumatised. But the Fi part is, I know that it's wrong to traumatise another human because I would hate to be traumatised. So... I've just confused myself even more.


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

also: so far it looks like I am either an STP or an SFJ of some kind... would you agree with that? Or are you still out on the Fi/Fe thing? Thanks so much for all your help btw, this is really valuable.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I think you are a sensor. But the rest is still unclear to me. I'm thinking maybe you use Fe if you are emotionally expressive and like to talk about your feelings.

This site shows who you are at your worst:

Accurate Typing: The Inferior Function - MBTI Notes


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Hm, interesting... I definitely see inferior Fe in myself, and inferior Ni as well.
Loss of healthy Ti rings a few bells. Loss of healthy Se rings a lot of bells. Strangely, inferior Se has a few things in it I do... like obsessively cleaning when I've had bad news (I always used to take that as evidence of inferior Te, but that sites description of inferior Te didn't really sound like me at all).

Many of the items for the different ones were the same, but yeah I'd say Ti and Se were the strongest in that I agreed with pretty much everything in both of them, and the ones I agreed with in other description were also in the Ti or Se descriptions. The only thing I don't agree with is: "compensate by becoming obsessively analytical about proving something?" which is meant to show loss of healthy Ti.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Hm, interesting... I definitely see inferior Fe in myself, and inferior Ni as well.
> Loss of healthy Ti rings a few bells. Loss of healthy Se rings a lot of bells. Strangely, inferior Se has a few things in it I do... like obsessively cleaning when I've had bad news (I always used to take that as evidence of inferior Te, but that sites description of inferior Te didn't really sound like me at all).
> 
> Many of the items for the different ones were the same, but yeah I'd say Ti and Se were the strongest in that I agreed with pretty much everything in both of them, and the ones I agreed with in other description were also in the Ti or Se descriptions. The only thing I don't agree with is: "compensate by becoming obsessively analytical about proving something?" which is meant to show loss of healthy Ti.


But overall you're leaning towards XSTP?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Yes, I think so, from that site. 
Oh, and when I say Ti and Se were the strongest, I mean, loss of Ti and Se, and inferior Ni and Fe all sounded the most familiar to me.


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

I've been reading some other stuff on that site, it's very interesting. I was looking at this one Accurate Typing: Distinguishing Extraverts and... - MBTI Notes

It discusses the inferior a bit too, and inferior Fe and Ni stuck out for me there as well. I also resonate with the idea of mastery, although the esfp description made sense to me as well on that page.

Also, most of the pages on that site make me think I use dominant Se. If I'm an ESTP, though, I'm certainly very different from the usual description of ESTPs, and very different to the ESTPs I've seen on here. Functional wise, it makes a fair bit of sense to me, though.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

This site is really good at explaining how each type acts when stressed:

How Each MBTI Type Reacts to Stress (and How to Help!) - Psychology Junkie


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

In that page, ISFJ, ESTP, ISFP and ESFP all sounded like me a bit. Do you have any tips for how to narrow down introvert versus extravert? Sometimes I feel like I might be an extravert, but I do need alone time too. But overall I'm pretty sure I focus on the external world and need people. I can go a couple days by myself before feeling depressed. I need alone time after my work is over. However, in my work I interact with many strangers during the day.

I think technically I'd be an ambivert, really, but since that isn't an option in this system, is there another way to tell?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Introverts are going to be in their head a lot and not notice their surroundings very much. Your extraverted functions are going to be much more obvious than your introverted functions. So ask those who know you which extraverted functions they see you use. These include Se, Ne, Fe, and Te. 

Si, Se, Ni, Ne are Perceiving functions. These functions are concerned with absorbing life and information. These functions can leave too much info unprocessed- like letting laundry pile up. Life becomes messy. May make bad decisions.

Ti, Te, Fi and Fe are Judging functions. These functions draw conclusions based on received information. They have a desire to move toward an answer, decision, or objective. They can be stubborn to taking in new information that contradicts their own.


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Hey @Kitty23 , I don't know anyone who knows about this kind of stuff too much but from other feedback I know I am very expressive and able to influence others. I know I am approachable and creative. I'm considered friendly and energetic, funny and confident. I guess the extraverted function those things correspond with best is probably Fe. Maybe Ne with the creativity?

I've also been looking at DISC a little bit and my basic type seems to be high I and high D - the persuader type, with a fair bit of S thrown in there as well.

I think this corresponds with EFP or maybe ETP although it isn't really a one to one correspondence. The I is higher than the D. I'm hesitant to claim ExFP as my type even though it fits OK, mostly because I don't think I have that much Te. Also, with some of the other lenses out there, especially interaction styles, I fit less well with FP because I use a directing style not an informing style.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@sassafrassthelioness 



> I don't know anyone who knows about this kind of stuff too much but from other feedback I know I am very expressive and able to influence others. I know I am approachable and creative. I'm considered friendly and energetic, funny and confident. I guess the extraverted function those things correspond with best is probably Fe. Maybe Ne with the creativity?


That does sound like Fe. I knew an ESFP girl who was all about self-expression though. So how do you influence others? How do you know what others are feeling? Do you absorb their feelings, put yourself in their shoes, or ask them, etc.? 

Hmm, I don't know anything about DISC. Strong directing style huh...so would you say you would make a good boss or manager? 

Here is info about Si and Fi, and how I use those functions. Hopefully it helps:

Se and Si are both sensing functions. So both want/use concrete-empirically experienced data. Se wants to live in the right now. When playing a video game you have played before Se just thinks about that moment. It doesn't think "Oh how did I win this game last time?" like a Si user would. Se doesn't care about all the joy you got from playing that same game before. What matters is RIGHT NOW. It wants to discover as it goes. It's good at improvising. It doesn't think about the past or future, just right now. A Se user sees a bird. All they think is "Wow, a bird." They are the adrenaline junkies-race car drivers. Se wants to go on adventures, be spontaneous, be reckless, and impulsive. Se is not scared of trying anything new. Think Harry Potter-either ISFP or ISTP. 

Si on the other hand, looks to the past when dealing with the present. It is about the tried and true method. So if I get into a fight with someone I'll think how did I win this fight last time? And use the same methods. It is about getting the same joy from something over and over/reliving emotions. I feel all those past feelings/emotions/memories when I play Kingdom Hearts over and over again. I generally stick to same gaming methods. When I look at a picture of a bird, I think of my own bird. I think wow he looks like my bird, he has the same grumpy, bossy, look on his face. Si gets scared about new things. Si loves physical concrete symbolism. Think of Hermione Granger- either ESTJ or ISTJ.

Si isn't actually about tradition. It's just Si can lead to tradition. So say I like throwing the same party every year, in the same location, with the same music, .....That party can turn into a tradition. Or like every year I pretty much do the same thing for my birthday, why? because I ENJOY to. Si users don't do the same thing over and over again if the method is flawed, or if it brings them no joy, or if it's impractical. Si is the saying "If it ain't broken, why fix it?" Si users can hate change if they feel their current method works fine. Like why solve a math problem a different way, if solving it this way worked all the times before? It's about preserving past way of doing things that worked, were practical, and brought joy. 

Si is an introverted perceiving function. Si is a subjective storehouse of detailed information which you gather over time. 

“Dominant Introverted Sensing (Si)
Directing energy inwardly and storing the facts and details of both external reality and internal thoughts and experiences.

Current Sensory Experience: What is currently happening in reality.
*Trigger*: Reality prompts you to access your internal sensory catalog
Cataloged sensory experience: What has happened prior and thoughts and experiences are tied to that"

Si is also about concrete symbolism. For example (this also might have some Fi in it), when I got a cup from Mercy Corps:

“When I first got the mug I noticed it felt smooth, cold, silver, it’s made out of metal... My cup *symbolizes* my faith in helping others. The black and white flowers painted on the cup *represent* blooming into a fresh new start. The black lowercase words “be the change” *symbolize* that anyone can help make a positive change in someone’s life. The images of the birds on mug *represent* people rising out of their struggles. The different angles of the birds *symbolize* different strategies of breaking free from poverty. The different outlines of the birds (clean in lines, definable feathers) *represent* the difficulty of the poverty. The visibility of the bird’s heads, beaks, tails, and certain wings *represent* how visible a person’s struggles can be.” - The symbolism is tied to a concrete physical object that is from MY (personal) life. 

Si is sentimental and nostalgic. I love taking pictures of moments I want to remember forever. For example, say I took a picture of my bird. Then years later when I look at the picture, it's like I'm transported to that exact moment I took that picture. The emotions I felt, if I had a headache that day,...maybe the time if I looked at the clock when I took the picture, maybe I'll think "I remember feeling like I had bad hair when taking this picture". So again, my bird is a real physical and concrete object. My bird is not an abstract thing. He is real, here in this moment, and I want real physical pictures of him so I can use my Si even more lol. 

Si also tells me how something should be based on past subjective experiences. Say I always eat apples that always look the same. But then one day I get a new apple and it looks different. I'll zoom in on the details and notice EXACTLY how it's different than all of the other apples. 

Or say I always go to the same theme park every summer. Then next year I go to a different theme park. But I immediately notice all the ways, even the tiny details, of how this theme park is different from the original theme park. So then I'll feel like this isn't a real theme park. I’ll feel like I didn't get the real theme park experience. Why? Because MY PERSONAL SUBJECTIVE DEFINTION of what a theme park experience is, is now being contradicted. So see how my definition is subjective, my definition was created through my own personal past experiences. But in reality there is no definition for what a “True theme park experience,” is.

What is Fi?
Fi is also subjective like Si is. Yet, Fi is an introverted judging function. Fi is about your personal values, which cannot be influenced by others beliefs, and originally came from yourself. They are strict values, which will rarely ever waver over time. Fi is a moral code. For example, I want a career that is about helping people. Why? Because helping others is one of my Fi values. Yet, I won't work for a "Helping organization" that promotes beliefs I personally disagree with or/ and that are illogical. So if a Christian homeless shelter requires its workers to say to the homeless "You're homeless because you haven't accepted Jesus into your heart," Then I will decide IMMEDIATELY that I cannot work there and NEVER WILL (See how that value is so strong I made a decision immediately and that value cannot be changed by others, and I originally came to that belief on my own, and it will 99.9% stay the same throughout my lifetime). Even if my mother said “So what if they do something you don't like. That’s ridiculous, how else are you going to the pay the bills?” I would still personally feel it would be wrong of me to promote that belief/work there. If I promoted that belief I would hurt those who are already suffering. Also, that belief is illogical to me- Te, so another reason I could not work there. So see how Fi is rigid. I become very rigid and tense when someone violates a personal value of mine. 

And if I do go at it with someone who violated a value of mine, I share personal experiences that back up my value- Si, and how my value is logical- Te.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I posted new info about Si and Fi which went to page 4, but yet site won't let me go to page 4 unless I post something new each time. So let me know if you can get to new post or not.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

...


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Yes, I can see the post - thanks... I'll read it more thoroughly and respond later on.


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Sorry for the long ramble here!!



Kitty23 said:


> So how do you influence others? How do you know what others are feeling? Do you absorb their feelings, put yourself in their shoes, or ask them, etc.?


Um, if someone is feeling strongly around me I just feel their feelings, I don't and don't need to put myself in their shoes. Whatever emotion they are feeling, if they show it to me visibly, I will also feel. This is something I've only noticed recently however, like in the last few years, and I don't know if I've always done it and just thought I was feeling my own emotions, or if it's a skill I developed recently.
If someone's not showing any emotion but talking about something that was hard for them, I would have to put myself in their shoes to understand. This is something I think about consciously to do, it doesn't exactly come naturally to me to do this.

As to how I influence people, I'm not sure... I think by my enthusiasm, but maybe also by my example. I've been told that I am inspiring by the actions I take and following my goals. I think influencer in DISC roughly corresponds with sanguine personality. [/QUOTE]



Kitty23 said:


> Hmm, I don't know anything about DISC. Strong directing style huh...so would you say you would make a good boss or manager?


The directing style was from Linda Berens' stuff, it's more about that I communicate my desires by asking people directly, rather than people of an informing style who communicate a need and want people to freely buy into that need and offer to help of their own free will. SF types aren't supposed use the directing style, although I think there must be exceptions to that.

D in DISC stands for dominant, and it seems to be about decision making, goals etc. It is extraverted and task oriented, whereas I is extraverted and people oriented. S is introverted people, and C is introverted, task. I have very low C, the others are all high or very high. 

Also the DISC gives you your adapted and natural style, and apparently my adapted style has much lower D than I would naturally use. That does make sense, as a kid I wanted to have more control, then I learned to reign it in, and now I'm learning how to use it again effectively. It mainly comes out in quick decision making and impatience, especially in a group. If no one will make a decision I just step in and make it for everyone. At work I also make decisions I don't really have authority for, but no one ever complains because they're usually good decisions.

I'm primarily an I so I'm not a super in charge type like a D-only person would be (I know a woman like that and there's value in it, but it can be infuriating as well). But people do tell me I'm a good leader - I've never thought of myself as a leader, more of an encourager, and I think that I'm good at mentoring people. I enjoy passing on my knowledge of skills that I have mastery over to people, training people one on one or in small groups, but not teaching them.

I'm coming to believe now that I might be a good leader. The main things that make me doubt it are:
-poor organisational and thinking ahead skills. However I can have a creative vision and strive towards it. I mainly get things done by asking people to help me achieve them because I'm bad at knowing the steps to take to achieve things. But now that I'm better at asking people for help (I'm still super awkward at that, btw), then it's getting easier.
-not good at teaching/holding the attention of large groups unless I'm performing. Performing I love, I'm definitely more a performer than a teacher. 

With Si vs Se, I definitely resonate more with Se than Si from your description. I don't have the ability to remember back with all that much clarity. I do value experience, and will try to think back to how things were done in the past when trying to remember how to, say, play a game, but I imagine everyone does that, I mean that's just learning the rules. But I won't necessarily reuse the same strategies every time like, e.g. my ISTJ husband does. If I do, it's only so I can beat him, and I essentially just steal the strategy he has perfected over time 

I do love physical symbolism, but your description of it goes way, way beyond anything I would ever come up with (unless I sat down and tried to do it, and to me it would just be something silly and fun, not that meaningful).
The way I think of symbolism is mostly around religious stuff, like for example Jesus said "I am the bread of life", so what does that mean? Well, bread makes you satisfied, bread fills you up when you're hungry. Bread is also a cultural symbol, people eat it together, it brings people together round a table, just like Jesus does with communion. But to me, that symbolism is inherent when I'm eating the bread - it helps me to have enjoyment of the physical sensations as I'm feeling them because I also feel that I'm somehow taking in or physically experiencing the symbol or spiritual meaning of the thing.

I'm not really scared of doing new things - well, I get scared of new things and change, but I value it. I don't really value keeping things the same all the time just for the sake of it being similar. My husband and another friend of mine who I think is an SJ type have both told me I help them experience new stuff, even though the resist it. I do a different thing for my birthday every year and I need my work to provide me with new challenges and a different schedule every day.

I do sometimes notice differences, like your theme park example, I can imagine myself noticing ways that one place is different to another. But I'd be more likely to be excited by this than upset or disturbed. I certainly wouldn't feel that I hadn't had a "real" theme park experience. I have had the feeling occasionally that something doesn't live up to my expectations of what it was going to be, and sometimes that has been tied to my past experiences, but it is also sometimes tied to how I've built it up in my head that it's going to be. I also wouldn't say that's my default mode of being.

With your Fi example, I sort of am like that, except probably not as rigid. I have some pretty deep seated values. But my usual response to differences is to first find ways that the beliefs are the same. My default position is to see how two apparently different views can reconcile, and that's what I enjoy doing as well.

At my work, there are some things that I disagree with. I get around it usually by using verbal fluency to always make sure I'm never actually saying something I don't believe. If somebody at work wants me to do something I don't believe is right, I'll usually try to fulfill what they want to the greatest degree I can, but I'll do it in a way that makes me comfortable. Not that that happens much at work, it's usually some sort of message I'm meant to pass on to customers, and I'll just tweak it a bit so it's like what they want me to say, but the message is really mine. Likewise, if I have an idea I want to get past a superior, I'll find out what sort of things they want, and explain my idea to them in a way that makes it sound like it meets what they want, even if, explained another way, they might not like it. 

When I write it out it sounds really manipulative, and I guess it is in some ways, but really what I'm doing is staying true to what I believe is the right thing, or to my goals, and avoiding violating my ethical principles, while at the same time, satisfying others' desires as well - and I do work hard to make sure it's really reconciled, and that what they want is also included. I don't lie. I just feel that anything I'm going to put my name to should be something I'm happy with, and I think I should be the final arbiter of the actions I take and the words that I say. Just because they're paying me, doesn't mean they can force me to say something I don't believe is true, or something that I think is not helpful to the customers.

I have no idea if that is Fi or Fe - to me it sounds like a mix of both. Which would maybe suggest that I'm strong in feeling, since I use both attitudes strongly.

Oh, also I should tell you, in function tests I usually get the two attitudes for each function quite close together, except for thinking. My Te scores are always really low, and my Ti scores are usually medium-ish.
Both Fi and Fe are always high, Se is always high. Si is usually just less than Se. Ni is usually next and then Ne a bit under that. I don't know if that's helpful or not.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

So it sounds like you use Se over Si, and maybe Ni over Ne. Maybe Ti over Te and Fe over Fi. What about ISTP, ISFP, or INFJ?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

I'm fairly sure I'm not an Ni dominant. The ISTP and ISFP descriptions both sort of fit, hence the dilemma, but through this process I've become aware I'm not likely to be a Ti dom - too expressive. I'm still not sure whether I'm an extravert or not though - I'm open to the possibility that I'm some kind of EP, since that seems to match some of my other temperamental/behavioural results, or possibly an EFJ of some kind.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I'm fairly sure I'm not an Ni dominant. The ISTP and ISFP descriptions both sort of fit, hence the dilemma, but through this process I've become aware I'm not likely to be a Ti dom - too expressive. I'm still not sure whether I'm an extravert or not though - I'm open to the possibility that I'm some kind of EP, since that seems to match some of my other temperamental/behavioural results, or possibly an EFJ of some kind.


Ahh ok. Well, actually Fe is emotionally expressive. Fi is not. So in theory, an ISTP could be more emotionally expressive than an ISFP.


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

oh OK that's interesting. I might read over some different ISP descriptions again in more detail.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> oh OK that's interesting. I might read over some different ISP descriptions again in more detail.


Ok


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

@Kitty23 , I dunno, I don't think I can be a ISTP unless I'm a really, really, unstereotypical one. But really growing up I was much more extraverted than they're described. And I don't think I use Ti as a dominant function. If I'm an STP I'd be an ESTP. I do feel close to both the ISFP and ESFP descriptions, except I'm not organised like an ESFP is meant to be able to be. Maybe I am really an ISFP. 

I considered ENFJ as well but I don't think I'm quite as much a people person as that, and though people tell me I'm a natural leader I don't think I take to it as well as it's described.

I looked over the INFJ description again and I really don't resonate at all with the feeling of being disconnected from the world. I've always been very immersed in my senses, but also my imagination as well.

I'm definitely an ambivert so I could be an extraverted introvert or an introverted extravert... hard to tell.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

So then I would say ISFP. Is there something about the ISFP description that is too off for you?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Not so much the descriptions, more the other lenses of type made me doubt it as my best fit type.
So, the fact that I suspect I'm actually an extravert (is there a reason you keep dismissing this btw, out of curiosity - like do you see me as a strong introvert for some particular reason?)
Also, the directing vs informing thing - that's what first got me thinking about it.
And the fact that I come up as high dominance in DISC.
I also have a sanguine temperemant, which correlates with the high I in DISC. I and D are also both extraverted, not introverted.

Probably the main differences from the description have to do with words - like a lot of them talk about how ISFPs are really bad with words and keep their opinions to themselves and I'm great with words and I have a drive to share my opinions with people. That's one reason I struggled between INFP and ISFP, but I'm fairly sure I am a sensor.

Also the fact that there aren't really any descriptions where I go "wow, that absolutely describes me to a tee". There are descriptions I know really DON'T describe me, but for a lot of them, I can see traits of myself in the description, and there's none that I feel stand out as being a whole lot MORE accurate than the others. Like I'd say ESFP, ENFJ, ISFP, INFP and ENFP all describe me equally well depending which source you use, and ISTP and ESTP also describe me very well, with some important differences that make them less likely.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Not so much the descriptions, more the other lenses of type made me doubt it as my best fit type.
> So, the fact that I suspect I'm actually an extravert (is there a reason you keep dismissing this btw, out of curiosity - like do you see me as a strong introvert for some particular reason?)
> Also, the directing vs informing thing - that's what first got me thinking about it.
> And the fact that I come up as high dominance in DISC.
> I also have a sanguine temperemant, which correlates with the high I in DISC. I and D are also both extraverted, not introverted.


Yes, I had my reasons, and you put your type as ISFP. 

I would see directing as Te, and informing as Fe. 



> Probably the main differences from the description have to do with words - like a lot of them talk about how ISFPs are really bad with words and keep their opinions to themselves and I'm great with words and I have a drive to share my opinions with people. That's one reason I struggled between INFP and ISFP, but I'm fairly sure I am a sensor.


Well, Fe and Ne like to share their ideas/opinions. 



> Also the fact that there aren't really any descriptions where I go "wow, that absolutely describes me to a tee". There are descriptions I know really DON'T describe me, but for a lot of them, I can see traits of myself in the description, and there's none that I feel stand out as being a whole lot MORE accurate than the others. Like I'd say ESFP, ENFJ, ISFP, INFP and ENFP all describe me equally well depending which source you use, and ISTP and ESTP also describe me very well, with some important differences that make them less likely.


Are you an idealist?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Type Contrast: INTP vs INFP Since I’ve already... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/28b8s5/fi_vs_ti/

I saw the posts of how Te vs Ti/Se vs Si/Fe vs Fi... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

Te-Fi vs. Ti-Fe - Confessions of a Myers Briggs-aholic


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

re: the extraversion thing, do you mind explaining what the reasons are? I've only recently come to wonder if I'm really an extravert as when I first discovered personality/typology stuff I was going through a period of grieving. Also, the test I did typed me as an INFP. After I did a bit of reading I discovered I probably use Se not Ne and that fit me a lot better. That revelation led me to join here. Now I'm wondering if there are any other dichotomies I got wrong, basically. 

The directing versus informing thing is a Linda Berens thing. It isn't Te, it's based on groupings of types. She basically groups types in several ways and then you triangulate. I like her stuff because it gives you several lenses to look through, and I like the idea of "best fit type" as it nods to the fact that we all have a little of many types in us.

Here's a link: Understanding Berens' Interaction Styles


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

So which group are you in? Chart the course, behind the scenes, in charge, or get things going?


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Well, given my directing style, it would imply that I'm either chart the course or in-charge. I'm almost positive I'm not chart-the-course because I'm really REALLY not a process oriented person. Of the four, chart-the-course is LEAST like me. Given that I'm sanguine-phlegmatic, might suggest get-things-going. And the two of those descriptions do fit me about equally well. Get-things-going requires a lot of energy from me though, whereas I think in-charge might be more natural. But, this would be a new way for me to see myself, because I've never considered myself a leader, even though everyone always tells me I am. 
Like the same as how I feel that functionally ESTP fits me quite well, but behaviourially it doesn't fit me as well. Whereas ESFP/ISFP fits me really well behaviourally, but not functionally according to the prevailing theories. 

It's probably a bit annoying for you that I don't just know straight away what group I fall into - I find it really hard, because I see a bit of myself in almost every description, and I also feel like a totally different person at different times in my life. If you're anything like my ISTJ husband, you know exactly who you are, and can tell straight away whether a description matches you. Whether it's introversion, or your Fi working, or something else, I don't know. It's cool though.

This is why my thread is labelled DOUBTING ALL THE THINGS hahaha because I'm really questioning the things I have assumed about myself and wondering if I've been seeing myself correctly.

Thanks so much for your help though... it seems like maybe only people who know me in real life would really be able to help me with this, because they can tell me if my self-perception matches up with reality or not. That's really the issue.

Oh and with the links above, I'm still feeling more like an Fe-Ti type, I think, contrary to what I always assumed I was. Today I was noticing that I'm constantly asking how things work, so Ti actually might be a fairly strong theme for me.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Well, given my directing style, it would imply that I'm either chart the course or in-charge. I'm almost positive I'm not chart-the-course because I'm really REALLY not a process oriented person. Of the four, chart-the-course is LEAST like me. Given that I'm sanguine-phlegmatic, might suggest get-things-going. And the two of those descriptions do fit me about equally well. Get-things-going requires a lot of energy from me though, whereas I think in-charge might be more natural. But, this would be a new way for me to see myself, because I've never considered myself a leader, even though everyone always tells me I am.
> Like the same as how I feel that functionally ESTP fits me quite well, but behaviourially it doesn't fit me as well. Whereas ESFP/ISFP fits me really well behaviourally, but not functionally according to the prevailing theories.


The in charge group sounds like a Te-J type. So do you care more about people (Fe)? or just the goal (Te)? dominant Ti users are process oriented. So I doubt you are a INTP or ISTP. 



> It's probably a bit annoying for you that I don't just know straight away what group I fall into - I find it really hard, because I see a bit of myself in almost every description, and I also feel like a totally different person at different times in my life. If you're anything like my ISTJ husband, you know exactly who you are, and can tell straight away whether a description matches you. Whether it's introversion, or your Fi working, or something else, I don't know. It's cool though.


I find that Fe users have the hardest time figuring out their types. It seems Fi users usually know right away they use Fi and don't question their Fi. 



> This is why my thread is labelled DOUBTING ALL THE THINGS hahaha because I'm really questioning the things I have assumed about myself and wondering if I've been seeing myself correctly.
> 
> Thanks so much for your help though... it seems like maybe only people who know me in real life would really be able to help me with this, because they can tell me if my self-perception matches up with reality or not. That's really the issue.


Yes, getting others opinions can be really helpful. If others don't know about the functions then just describe the dichotomous letters to them and see what they say. Someone guessed my type correctly that way.



> Oh and with the links above, I'm still feeling more like an Fe-Ti type, I think, contrary to what I always assumed I was. Today I was noticing that I'm constantly asking how things work, so Ti actually might be a fairly strong theme for me.


Yes, I'm thinking you are a Fe and Ti user also. 

This is a good site with functions test:

FAQ’s - Confessions of a Myers Briggs-aholic


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Interesting test, I never saw that one. I did all the scores without looking, then tallied them up. That's the first time I've even gotten not lowest for Te! I also thought I had OK Ni but not according to this.


Si = 2,3,2,1 = 8
Se = 5,5,3,5 = 18
Ne =3,1,1,3 = 8
 Ni = 2,2,1,2 = 7
Ti = 4, 5, 2, 3 = 14
Te = 3,1,2,4 = 10
Fi = 4,3,2,1 = 10
Fe = 3, 3, 3, 4 = 13

Another tidbit, my husband told me when I'm tired or stressed I get super paranoid about what people are thinking of me, super worried about my image and social status, and also more fearful of the future. 

I think each interaction style has one of each keirseyan group (SP, SJ, NF, NT). For in charge they are ESTJ, ENTJ, ESTP, ENFJ. For get things going they are ESFP, ENTP, ENFP, ESFJ.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Your Si and Ni are very low. So I would cross off INTJ, ENTJ, INFJ, ENFJ, ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, and ESFJ, for you. 

Ne is also low for you, So I would cross off INFP, EFNP, INTP, and ENTP. 

And you are not process oriented so I would cross off both ISTP and INTP. 



> Another tidbit, my husband told me when I'm tired or stressed I get super paranoid about what people are thinking of me, super worried about my image and social status, and also more fearful of the future.


Maybe inferior Ni? 

Accurate Typing: The Inferior Function - MBTI Notes

It looks like you are Se dominant. So I would say either ESFP or ESTP. From the results I would say ESTP though.


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

ESFP fits me well apart from the tertiary Te thing.
ESTP fits me functionally, and behaviourally I was more like the descriptions as a teenager, but I don't fit the stereotype of doing things all the time - I enjoy times in my life where I'm doing heaps of activities, but I like a bit of down time as well. I'm also not necessarily super confident... I can be, but I often find it quite hard to self promote, although I enjoy promoting others or other ideas that I'm interested in.
I grew up with an INFP dad who I tried to model myself on and an (I think) ISFJ mother, though she be INFJ. Don't know if that could make a difference.
I also wonder if at the moment I could be developing my Fe since I am noticing it a lot more lately? (also, I tried talking about my feelings with some work colleagues and it helped me a lot - going on the assumption that I use Fe somewhere in my stack seems to bring more personal development than assuming Fi, so I think we are bang on with that one).

The inferior Ni description really describes me well under stress.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> ESFP fits me well apart from the tertiary Te thing.
> ESTP fits me functionally, and behaviourally I was more like the descriptions as a teenager, but I don't fit the stereotype of doing things all the time - I enjoy times in my life where I'm doing heaps of activities, but I like a bit of down time as well. I'm also not necessarily super confident... I can be, but I often find it quite hard to self promote, although I enjoy promoting others or other ideas that I'm interested in.


That's good the ESTP description fit you as a teenager. The younger we are, the closer we are to our natural self/mbti type. Well, hardly anyone is going to be doing something all of the time. Confidence has very little or nothing to do with types. 



> I grew up with an INFP dad who I tried to model myself on and an (I think) ISFJ mother, though she be INFJ. Don't know if that could make a difference.
> I also wonder if at the moment I could be developing my Fe since I am noticing it a lot more lately? (also, I tried talking about my feelings with some work colleagues and it helped me a lot - going on the assumption that I use Fe somewhere in my stack seems to bring more personal development than assuming Fi, so I think we are bang on with that one).


Yes, I think you use Fe over Fi. 



> The inferior Ni description really describes me well under stress.


ESFP and ESTP have inferior Ni.

So as of right now I am seeing you as an ESTP.


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## giraffegator (Dec 28, 2014)

Thanks so much for all your input! This has definitely helped me a lot.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Thanks so much for all your input! This has definitely helped me a lot.


So my vote for you is ESTP. You're welcome!


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