# new definitions of the cognitive functions (or IM elements)



## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Tellus said:


> But this description of Extroverted functions does not correspond with our observations of the types. And Te is a judging function, so it is "blind". It needs a perceiving function in order to process information.
> 
> 1) If Ni is about _internal_ data and Te is about _external_ data, then why are they blocked together?
> 
> 2) How do you explain theoretical physicists (ILI / INTJ (mbti)... NiTe)? Do they rely on the "collective standpoint"?


1. Well, Jung theorized (_grin_) that Intuition is a kinda 50/50 deal per intro- or extroverted. 
So simply put, Ni collects data and Te judges the validity of said data.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Eu_citzen said:


> 1. Well, Jung theorized (_grin_) that Intuition is a kinda 50/50 deal per intro- or extroverted.
> So simply put, Ni collects data and Te judges the validity of said data.


You cannot have it both ways. It is either Ni or N. And if you use N then you must also use T. But then there is no difference between ENTP and INTJ ... which is a problem.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Eu_citzen said:


> But you can compare their dominant functions and how those manifest in the personality.
> Well, at least the few I know, yeah. They are "doers". If not on the job, then in their spare-time.
> Think of the stereotype of "fixing things".


What exactly do you mean by "fixing things"? Can you give me an example?


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Tellus said:


> What exactly do you mean by "fixing things"? Can you give me an example?


Well, stereotypes don't go into details. But from myself, I "repair" electronics, an oscilloscope currently. Changing components, fault searching, etc.
Also do some carpentry, replaced old floors, beams, etc.


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Tellus said:


> You cannot have it both ways. It is either Ni or N. And if you use N then you must also use T. But then there is no difference between ENTP and INTJ ... which is a problem.


The issue is, Ni specifically is extra hard to pin down what it is and does. i.e. the way it functions. (pun intended)


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Eu_citzen said:


> Well, stereotypes don't go into details. But from myself, I "repair" electronics, an oscilloscope currently. Changing components, fault searching, etc.
> Also do some carpentry, replaced old floors, beams, etc.


I mean LIE / ENTJ (mbti). They are "doers" according to you. 

ESTPs are usually called "doers", but they have Ti.


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Tellus said:


> I mean LIE / ENTJ (mbti). They are "doers" according to you.
> 
> ESTPs are usually called "doers", but they have Ti.


I was speaking of the INTJs I know.


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## Shadowhuntress (Jan 25, 2019)

Tellus said:


> But this description of Extroverted functions does not correspond with our observations of the types. And Te is a judging function, so it is "blind". It needs a perceiving function in order to process information.
> 
> 1) If Ni is about _internal_ data and Te is about _external_ data, then why are they blocked together?
> 
> 2) How do you explain theoretical physicists (ILI / INTJ (mbti)... NiTe)? Do they rely on the "collective standpoint"?



That is what I was saying with, "It's the combination of both that makes us function as people. It's just what external data we value most and how we interpret it." We need the judging and perceiving functions, the introverted and extroverted functions to exist as people.

1) They are not always together, such as with the LSE. However, I of course agree with the premise that both are needed together for ILI and LIE to function as they are.

2) Ni is the leading subjective function in their types, so in an ILI and, to a slighter lesser extent, an LIE, you will see that they will deviate more from the collective standpoint because of the Ni. LSE will be more inclined not to deviate from the collective standpoint because they lack a strong intuitive function. From what I've seen Te types start with the collective standpoint from whence they will deviate, while Ti types may question the collective standpoint altogether. Fi and Fe seem similar in their respective spheres of influence.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Shadowhuntress said:


> That is what I was saying with, "It's the combination of both that makes us function as people. It's just what external data we value most and how we interpret it." We need the judging and perceiving functions, the introverted and extroverted functions to exist as people.
> 1) They are not always together, such as with the LSE. However, I of course agree with the premise that both are needed together for ILI and LIE to function as they are.


_I: But this description of Extroverted functions does not correspond with our observations of the types. And Te is a judging function, so it is "blind". It needs a perceiving function in order to process information.
_
_1) If Ni is about internal data and Te is about external data, then why are they blocked together?_

You are missing my point. Te processes external data, but it is fed internal data (Ni). Te cannot process internal data.



> 2) Ni is the leading subjective function in their types, so in an ILI and, to a slighter lesser extent, an LIE, you will see that they will deviate more from the collective standpoint because of the Ni. LSE will be more inclined not to deviate from the collective standpoint because they lack a strong intuitive function. From what I've seen Te types start with the collective standpoint from whence they will deviate, while Ti types may question the collective standpoint altogether. Fi and Fe seem similar in their respective spheres of influence.


Theoretical physicists don't rely on "the collective standpoint". They come up with new ideas all the time. And Ni -> Te... Te processes/judges these ideas.


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