# Why is it widely considered "hot" for men to be brooding but "not" for women?



## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> Exactly, he looks like he's having a good time in life. The same cannot be said for the broody boys.


And he is self-confident about wearing a yellow shirt. Not many people are comfortable enough to pull that around when there are norms in favor of broody men.


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## Lonewaer (Jul 14, 2014)

For the same reason that women don't want to date a bum and men don't want to date a garden tool. Men and women are different in pretty much everything despite what makes them similar, that includes attraction triggers.

Brooding men and smiling women exude traits that are universally attractive to the other sex. These could be summed up by masculinity and femininity, but in this particular case, a brooding man will exude being an emotional pillar/leader (and you're right, OP, protection is also one of them), and a smiling woman will exude not being a headache to deal with/being pleasant to be around. Additionally a woman who doesn't smile makes herself less approachable. 

Regarding brooding women and smiling men in the post above, those two women (same for the women in OP) are some I would consider masculine. They look good, most (if not all) men would have sex with them, but they are not good relationship partners (there are in fact many many reasons why they would be terrible relationship partners but that's off-topic), and they are definitely not approachable. I find interesting that the most recent versions of Tomb Raider present a younger Lara Croft that is less brooding, more fragile, and generally more feminine (and more badass in my opinion, but not everyone will agree on that). The main reason those two are attractive in those pictures, is because of their bodies. I'll be honest, I don't even think that Johannson has such a pretty face, she's a hard ok to me. However her body looks good dressed or naked. That's all it boils down to, men are visual. As for Clooney and Barthez, what they exude in those pictures is extreme self-confidence/being players, but not so much being a leader. It just happens that having good self-confidence is also an attraction trigger for women, that's why they're still popular among women (that's also why players are the men who get the most action with women).
So, so much for "this is not a general rule". Yes it is. It's a generality, the generality makes the rule. That's why in an election the candidates who lost don't actually win, they're in the minority, it would be stupid for everyone else to consider that they won. Same goes for exceptions, they're fine, they exist, but they don't make rules.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

I personally don't like broody men; I prefer happy upbeat men, myself. I married a man who will spontaneously break out in laughter every time something he sees or a phrase he hears reminds him of something funny he's watched. He's basically a human comedy clip show at times.

I think the broody male, reads into the whole idea of how the heroic female archetype typically differs from the masculine archetype in story telling. The female archetype is typically more transformative in nature: think stories like Beauty and the Beast, where a woman can transform a man through her love. You see this in stories that feature the Byronic hero such as Jane Eyre, or a lot of the young adult literature you see as well. The feminine archetype focuses on a female rescuing a man from internal threats, saving a man from himself so to speak, and it's a common female fantasy to find a man who's a hot mess and to change him for the better with her love.
This, however, is not a common male fantasy. Generally the masculine archetype, in contrast focuses on rescuing a woman from external threats: think media that focuses on saving the princess from a monster or evil person. The masculine fantasy with regard to females focuses on dealing with more external things in that matter. 

It makes sense when you consider the Jungian concept of the animus vs anima. If I remember correctly, the anima is supposed to lead a man to have a better understand of more internal realities, having a better connection with his more inner motivations and emotions, whereas the animus is supposed to lead a woman to having a better understanding of the external world.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Lonewaer said:


> a brooding man will exude being an emotional pillar


lol! HOW?


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## attic (May 20, 2012)

(I don't agree myself, but will try a guess)

Perhaps it is something like that a brooding man -> sign of emotional depth (because the expectation of a charicature manly man is not being in touch with emotions), but brooding woman -> sign of overly emotional/a hysteric (because the expectation of the charicature woman is being very emotional). Based on old ideas of previous generations? (carried on through fiction etc.)


But I came to think of cat walk models, don't they typically look brooding like that? not all of course, but when I think of a model I see someone either cold of emotional in an intense but not at all happy way.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

NIHM said:


> Yeah, I've noticed males tend to want to do the white knight syndrome less than females wanting to be the angelic savior. I've wondered if it has to do with their self-esteem but I know it has more to do with traditional roles. Though I know some have linked this trait to NPD but I think it's not that easily defined. I know a lot of "angelic savior types" getting attracted to the NPD characteristic, they have to save them and they make excuses for the other person's bad behavior. Still, it's almost a compulsive need to be the rescuer in an intimate relationship originating from early life experiences that left them traumatized by a previous caregiver. Being that I'm a type 2w3 (caregiver) when I'm unhealthy it's hard not to fall into this trap to want to fix someone. They always have higher empathy and can be taken advantage of. I just see this more common in females than males, probably due to social constructs of the patriarchal society places both on male and female traditional roles. So in conclusion from that thought process, since women are socialized to be emotional caretakers in relationships (with societal boundaries and training from birth), it makes sense that they demonstrate signs of White Knight Syndrome in their relationships and go after the "broody males". This posturing probably has made other males see it as the ability to attract a mate and therefore has set a beauty trend within most societies. (except example below)
> 
> Also, don't get me wrong. I think it's completely fine for females and males to pick and chose which role they want to be within a relationship. It's almost healthy to recognize if you're a sub or dom. Some females are doms and like sub males and then vise versa. Then there are the people in the middle, they can be both roles.
> 
> It's interesting in societies where females could be considered strong like the "Vikings" males could be related as more feminine and soft. I know the typical RARW Viking with horns and slamming down a mug of mead, shouting out argggg "pillage, burn the village down," is the "typical" representation of what they were supposed to be but if you look at history that wasn't really the case. Many Norse stories depict women’s honor being protected and any fabled acts of aggression or sexual assault are generally met with ax to the head. In fact, male Vikings had softer jawlines that gave them a more feminine appearance, and conversely, female Vikings had a more pronounced bone structure in the ridges above the eyes, giving them a more masculine look. So in this case, females were sought after for being "broody looking".


Hm, maybe in extreme cases someone white knighting for a woman is doing so because they have NPD, but I would think that's an extremely severe case. I have noticed that people who do white knight for others seem do so for themselves at least as much as they're doing it for the other person. There's definitely a level of self-gratification when it comes to wanting to consider oneself to be a rescuer. Although I'm not sure how much of a man wanting to rescue a woman has to do with gender roles and how much of it is innate as that's getting into evolutionary biology and that's a field that seems to be to be unreputable on the internet. As for whether certain women prefer brooding men, that I'm more certain has to do with the personality of the two people in question. Brooding men _tend_ to be introverts IME and the quality of being quiet and severe tends to be more attractive to extroverted women, again in my experience.

That's kind of funny that you bring up gender and being sub or dom. I tend to not view my relationships as to who is submissive and who is dominant. I think that's just posturing with people who're supposed to be your friends and family. Of course it does happen, all the time in fact and politics is full of it, but that's just a POV I've never agreed with when it comes to interpersonal relationships. As a consequence it's apparent that I don't view people as being in a position superior or inferior to me, which is why I frequently get put into positions of leadership. 😄 Although I guess that's a non-answer and I'd say I'm more of a dominating person than a submissive one, I just try not to appear so.

Hm that's interesting to know about the Vikings. I honestly don't know much about the Vikings other than what I learned in school and through media and such. Maybe Viking men got the reputation of being hard drinking pillagers because that's the kind of man that were sent to far away lands because they'd have the best chance of survival and reproducing? I've met quite a few people from Scandinavia and I can't say I've noticed that the men to appear a bit more feminine and the women to appear a bit more masculine but I suppose I've met a few people who would fit that mold. Hm, I can say that women in Scandinavian countries are very much respected and is reflected by the laws in those countries and perhaps that leads to more equality and that can sometimes create competition between the two sexes? I have two childhood friends who're Norwegian who've been competitive with one another for as long as I can remember. Well, more like she becomes competitive with him if he shows an aptitude for a task. She's an INTJ and he's an ENTJ. 🙂


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Hexcoder said:


> Why is it widely considered _hot _for men to be brooding (aka "the smolder") but _not _for women?
> 
> View attachment 883402
> View attachment 883404
> ...


Usual double standard. It's perfectly okay for men to brood, but when women do it, it's considered: "Resting Bitch Face," or some other sort of gaslighting bullshit like that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's some sort of passive-aggressive misogyny.

I think it's time we realized that, as a rule, pissing off roughly 1/2 the human race is just bad policy, and we should do our best not to do that.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Lonewaer said:


> For the same reason that women don't want to date a bum and men don't want to date a garden tool. Men and women are different in pretty much everything despite what makes them similar, that includes attraction triggers.
> 
> Brooding men and smiling women exude traits that are universally attractive to the other sex. These could be summed up by masculinity and femininity, but in this particular case, a brooding man will exude being an emotional pillar/leader (and you're right, OP, protection is also one of them), and a smiling woman will exude not being a headache to deal with/being pleasant to be around. Additionally a woman who doesn't smile makes herself less approachable.
> 
> ...


I was going to agree with this post up until the last part. The broody guys don't get anywhere near as many women as the confident fun loving types. It could be down to them generally not trying as hard, but that's beside the point.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

I think it's a by-product of tradition in combination with human nature.

Traditionally, men are tasked with doing the approaching, and women are tasked with being approachable.

What makes someone really good at approaching? Confidence and thoughtfulness.

What makes someone really approachable? Beauty and openness.

I guarantee you there are plenty of men who find brooding women attractive. I'm one of them. It's just that most men do not have the kind of confidence it takes to approach a brooding woman, so you guys rarely get the feedback.

This tradition has been changing for some time now. More and more women are taking the initiative and approaching men they like. However the same principle applies to men as well. Go out and see for yourself the kind of men women approach. I promise you that 9/10 times that man will be smiling and his body language will be welcoming. I've seen it countless times growing up. I used to set my introverted friends up all the time. There'd always be girls checking them out from a distance. Then I'd tell them to lighten up and mingle, and like magic those girls who were staring from a distance now have the courage to say hi. I've seen girls who get it do the same for their introverted female friends too.

It's ok to brood. Just don't do it when you want to meet people. It doesn't communicate "hi!". It communicates "I'm busy. Fuck off".


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## Six (Oct 14, 2019)

dulcinea said:


> I personally don't like broody men; I prefer happy upbeat men, myself. I married a man who will spontaneously break out in laughter every time something he sees or a phrase he hears reminds him of something funny he's watched. He's basically a human comedy clip show at times.
> 
> I think the broody male, reads into the whole idea of how the heroic female archetype typically differs from the masculine archetype in story telling. The female archetype is typically more transformative in nature: think stories like Beauty and the Beast, where a woman can transform a man through her love. You see this in stories that feature the Byronic hero such as Jane Eyre, or a lot of the young adult literature you see as well. The feminine archetype focuses on a female rescuing a man from internal threats, saving a man from himself so to speak, and it's a common female fantasy to find a man who's a hot mess and to change him for the better with her love.
> This, however, is not a common male fantasy. Generally the masculine archetype, in contrast focuses on rescuing a woman from external threats: think media that focuses on saving the princess from a monster or evil person. The masculine fantasy with regard to females focuses on dealing with more external things in that matter.
> ...


Spot on.

@NIHM

And this is the crux of it. 

It's rampant psychologism - the deepest form of underhanded authoritarianism - same thing as the White Knight.

This is a person who claims to be here to Save You - but inevitably that is merely an excuse to assert a greater degree of sovereignty over your mind than you are entitled to yourself. 

They know you better than you know you.

And they know what's best for you.

And what's best for you curiously rarely isn't something which also works out alongside their long term goals - curious that.










_"Well read and just a little wild. *If only someone could tame him."*

[And you see the underlying theme of conquest there.]_

Lol, the "brooding guy"...










... that you see women sliding out of their chairs for is implying a certain level of competence - they're:

A. Not relying on kindness to navigate the world but capability.
B. Shelfing emotional self-examination in favour of utility and effectiveness.

And this appeals to the Captain-Save-A-Ho White Knightery you see in all sorts of male characters women slide out of their chairs for - it doesn't have to be brooding either - the underlying passage or narrative arc is still there and intact:

Howl from Howl's Moving Castle
Beast from Beauty and the Beast
Mr Darcy from Pride and Prejudice
Dorian Grey from 50 Shade of Grey

Whatever - it's the same crap. 

But the small print is in exchange for helping them resolve their relationship with their Dad or suddenly figuring out whatever childhood meal they enjoyed whilst their mother was still alive - you get to upgrade to the magical castle.










Now are women by and large falling prey to that crap anymore?

No!

I hope not - and good for you - I have a broody face because of my to-do list which is longer than a leonard cohen song - go fix the janky car door.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

DOGSOUP said:


> lol! HOW?


Right?
My best friend is a broody INTJ and while I love him dearly, emotional pillar is NOT how I'd describe him.




One of the first things I noticed about my husband was his smile, his outgoing personality and the fact that he could make me laugh for hours. 

My face when I'm in my head and thinking (so 90 percent of the time) makes people ask "Are you okay?" so sad and a bit pissed off, but I can also be very warm and engaging when not lost in my own thoughts. No one smiles 24/7 


I was going over a budget last week and this dude kept telling me to smile. Finally I told him "I have to figure out how we can get caviar with hamburger money. I'll smile when I'm done."


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## mug_cake (Jul 18, 2021)

I don't agree with this honestly. I think intense looking women are seen as attractive too. There are men out there who prefer smiley women but I don't think there is a huge imbalance. 

Side note, I am not a happy looking woman and I do just fine.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Queen of Cups said:


> Right?
> My best friend is a broody INTJ and while I love him dearly, emotional pillar is NOT how I'd describe him.


I'm still laughing about it, just because a dude is completely stone-faced with a great posture doesn't tell anything about his ability to support other people lol.


> One of the first things I noticed about my husband was his smile, his outgoing personality and the fact that he could make me laugh for hours.


yeah the consensus in my very cool & hip friend group is that sociable people do the best in dating... if someone is more quiet, they're usually the cute, shy type that is still approachable like some others have been saying. the 'irresistible sigma male' fantasy doesn't match with my reality at least.


> My face when I'm in my head and thinking (so 90 percent of the time) makes people ask "Are you okay?" so sad and a bit pissed off, but I can also be very warm and engaging when not lost in my own thoughts. No one smiles 24/7
> 
> I was going over a budget last week and this dude kept telling me to smile. Finally I told him "I have to figure out how we can get caviar with hamburger money. I'll smile when I'm done."


It's insane to me that people actually get told to 'smile more'. I never get told that (maybe my default-setting is too smile-y).


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

DOGSOUP said:


> It's insane to me that people actually get told to 'smile more'. I never get told that (maybe my default-setting is too smile-y).


It’s generally random people I don’t know. This particular dude does it to me constantly because he knows it annoys me. 

I think a lot of it is just southern culture (having a pleasant disposition and “keeping sweet” was really stressed in etiquette and cotillion classes).

Even when I’m not smiling I’ve never had an issue with dudes being afraid to approach me.
I wish it were that easy. Lol


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## mug_cake (Jul 18, 2021)

Queen of Cups said:


> I think a lot of it is just southern culture (having a pleasant disposition and “keeping sweet” was really stressed in etiquette and cotillion classes).


Yes I think where you live has an influence! I live in the Midwest and we smile at people when we pass them if we are the only ones around. You might even feel pressured to say hello and do an awkward little wave. There is a lot pressure to be polite and nice all the time. The pressure is stronger for women than men. I seem to get by because my good manners makes up for my slight frown.


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## Lonewaer (Jul 14, 2014)

DOGSOUP said:


> lol! HOW?


Have you seen the pictures ? If it's the word "brooding" that you don't like, replace it by "stoic" if you want, that's how I understood it in this context (and I'm pretty sure that's how OP meant it). The fact of the matter is that the men in these picture, on top of wetting all sorts of panties from a distance just because of their jawline, exude that emotional stability regardless of whether they actually are emotionally stable or not. We're talking about perception here, it's all about perception. I don't care if someone says "no I know someone like that and they're not that, so no correlation can be made", because that's anecdotal, that's an exception, so it doesn't matter. Generalities count. Them having a resting bitch face will not stop them from getting any woman they want.

@ENFPathetic : I don't see where I said the "brooding"/stoic types get more action than the confident fun loving guys, because we can all agree that that statement is not true. I even specified that the players are the ones to get the most action ; they're the confident fun loving type and they try hard. The actually brooding guys (aka depressive guys) don't get much action if at all, because brooding isn't just having a resting bitch face.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Lonewaer said:


> Have you seen the pictures ? If it's the word "brooding" that you don't like, replace it by "stoic" if you want, that's how I understood it in this context (and I'm pretty sure that's how OP meant it). The fact of the matter is that the men in these picture, on top of wetting all sorts of panties from a distance just because of their jawline, exude that emotional stability regardless of whether they actually are emotionally stable or not. We're talking about perception here, it's all about perception. I don't care if someone says "no I know someone like that and they're not that, so no correlation can be made", because that's anecdotal, that's an exception, so it doesn't matter. Generalities count. Them having a resting bitch face will not stop them from getting any woman they want.


Each of us can only speak of our own panties.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)




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## Dalien (Jul 21, 2010)

mug_cake said:


> I don't agree with this honestly. I think intense looking women are seen as attractive too. There are men out there who prefer smiley women but I don't think there is a huge imbalance.
> 
> Side note, I am not a happy looking woman and I do just fine.


I don’t agree with it either.
I’m going to add… 
Also, I don’t think people are that static. 
Then there is the definition of broody—
Smouldering (metaphorically) would be a better choice for the pics represented in this thread


Sometimes I’m broody 
and the next thing ya know I’m smiley. 

It reminds of a older male regular customer who never smiled. Then one day I said something way off the wall (can’t remember what though) and his eyes lit and a very one-sided smile flitted.


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

Just for reference - I was not implying that this would be someone's disposition all the time - rather, this is what is being used in / seen in modeling, advertising, and basically just the media in general.


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