# Being a psychopath/sociopath seems like a blessing.



## Depresso (Jun 18, 2011)

-Lack of fear
-Charming
-Highly intelligence
-Women are attracted to you
-Don't crack under pressure
-Never sad
-Good at reading at people

These people are literally gods among people. They don't succumb to the problems of us average humans.


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## Wormwood (Feb 24, 2012)

Continually self-destructive behavior, typically aimless criminal acts, empty dissatisfaction with life.

A blessing.


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## Depresso (Jun 18, 2011)

despite all that they remain positive. The dissatisfaction with life doesn't hold them back. They go and do stuff about it.


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## Pyromaniac (Apr 2, 2013)

Lack of fear is a curse.

I have quite a few qualities associated with a psychopath/sociopath, passed some tests on it, and for we minor ones at least I don't believe it makes much of a difference.


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## Depresso (Jun 18, 2011)

Been looking heavily into these people recently. I know the most of the famously known ones are serial killers or mass murderers but the one's who are in society just getting on just like us except with a much darker side. Those ones intrigue me the most.


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## Tharwen (Mar 20, 2013)

blessing? i have "psychotic personality" as the psychologists would call it, and i dont even want to know what itd be like to be a full blown psychopath.

but on what experience i have with this more minor version of it, i would say its just hell to be out of touch with your own feelings. no enjoyment, no pain, no nothing, life is just like a movie, and your literally only watching it.

i would love to be in touch with my feelings, but frankly they dont seem to make any sense or fit into my world view currently, so ill ignore them to stay in the safe calm of nines ignorance.

and while i agree i do have intelligence even in these states, its not quite like what it should be, cause the wisdom aspect is missing.


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## Depresso (Jun 18, 2011)

Surely you derive pleasure from some things...


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Depresso said:


> -Lack of fear
> -Charming
> -Highly intelligence
> -Women are attracted to you
> ...


I guess that makes my cat a god.


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## Wormwood (Feb 24, 2012)

Depresso said:


> despite all that they remain positive. The dissatisfaction with life doesn't hold them back. They go and do stuff about it.



They can do nothing about it. Going and doing stuff doesn't alleviate the dissatisfaction. They are incapable of finding true enjoyment or meaning in their lives.


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## Depresso (Jun 18, 2011)

The one thing I admire most is being able to stay calm in tight situations. A trait which I always wanted. Seems like you have to be a psychopath or a sociopath to calm in the face of great dangers.


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## 6007 (Feb 12, 2010)

Is this a joke? Having feelings and the genuine ability to connect with other people is one of the greatest abilities/feelings in the world. Psychopathy as described by you is shallow, superficial, and not really truly "connected." I am misanthropic, annoyed daily by stupid people and usually have less feelings than others, but there will always be a genuine ability for me to connect and when it does holy crap it's awesome. Connecting with an environment, the moment, feelings, people is what being a person is all about. Not become so disconnected that you're "godlike" in a superficial manner. To be truly godlike one must experience ALL emotions and not ever be defeated by any and still boss mode daily.


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## I Kant (Jan 19, 2013)

Depends on what you think would be best for you in life, I guess.

Although I suppose the question of blessing to _who_ should be raised. Blessing to the psychopaths or blessing to the people that encounter them?


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## CaptSwan (Mar 31, 2013)

It's actually a very dangerous argument to make. You can have all the characteristics you mention and still retain feelings, because; after all, there's no point in life without the capacity to enjoy it, right?


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## ENFyay (Apr 5, 2013)

Anything is a blessing when you don't consider the disadvantages...


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## m12 (Apr 2, 2013)

violetblack said:


> Is this a joke? Having feelings and the genuine ability to connect with other people is one of the greatest abilities/feelings in the world. Psychopathy as described by you is shallow, superficial, and not really truly "connected." I am misanthropic, annoyed daily by stupid people and usually have less feelings than others, but there will always be a genuine ability for me to connect and when it does holy crap it's awesome. Connecting with an environment, the moment, feelings, people is what being a person is all about. Not become so disconnected that you're "godlike" in a superficial manner. To be truly godlike one must experience ALL emotions and not ever be defeated by any and still boss mode daily.


Completely agree with you.


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## Depresso (Jun 18, 2011)

CaptSwan said:


> It's actually a very dangerous argument to make. *You can have all the characteristics you mention* and still retain feelings, because; after all, there's no point in life without the capacity to enjoy it, right?


Even if im an INFP?


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## Pogona Vitticeps (Mar 18, 2013)

Psychopaths/Sociopaths do not have higher intelligence but the ones that have tend to commit crimes. But for the rest of the population it is the opposite. Look at this study:Psychopathy and intelligence: a second look. [J Pers Disord. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI


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## Sun Lips (Jan 28, 2013)

Depresso said:


> -Women are attracted to you


The women writing love letters to Ted Bundy are not exactly the type of people you want following you around..


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Agree with the poster above.

l cannot wait until the sociopath fad is over with, but really it's been something that pops up in the media every few years or so and then lies dormant again for decades.

The popularized image is pretty off...depending on which label you use. Even though sociopaths and psychopaths are different neurologically(the psychopath being the one presumed to be born that way), they are both given the ASPD diagnosis which doesn't help to negate the confusion.

Most psychopaths actually have low intelligence and are not charming, they do not possess social finesse lol. A sociopath is typically charming but it usually a result of childhood experiences, l tend to think they started out as types who are more similar to the charmers of the MBTI but failed to make certain connections as young children which resulted in a permanent lack of empathy.

Some empathy is actually required to even be charming, good cognitive empathy is usually what causes that affect. There are different types.

Anyway, IMO a good number of diagnosed sociopaths aren't completely hardened inside and have more of a victim complex than anything. So they are very capable of committing atrocious acts and not caring, to them it feels like revenge on the world. 

The break down many have later in life is usually disgusting and childish.





^l have a family member headed for this. She's not a sociopath but might as well be, the behavior is also pretty close to BPD.

Anyway, please excuse me while l book my future vacation to the ends of the Earth for when it finally happens :laughing:


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Depresso said:


> despite all that they remain positive. The dissatisfaction with life doesn't hold them back. They go and do stuff about it.


That's not always true. I've met several sociopaths/psychopaths, and most of them were miserable. Aimless beyond desires for immediate gratification and wealth, alienated from their families, unable to experience love, living under the control of their own selfish desires. It's the equivalent of one who eats constantly throughout the day yet is unable to appreciate the taste.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Yeesh. I would take being an emotional wreck over being a psychopath any day. It's hard for me to imagine an INFP not recognizing the beauty that exists in emotion -- even in pain. I can't imagine life without it.


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## Watch Key Phone (Mar 29, 2013)

Ignitus said:


> Lack of fear is a curse.
> 
> I have quite a few qualities associated with a psychopath/sociopath, passed some tests on it, and for we minor ones at least I don't believe it makes much of a difference.


No such thing as a 'minor' psychopath.


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## Watch Key Phone (Mar 29, 2013)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> Agree with the poster above.
> 
> l cannot wait until the sociopath fad is over with, but really it's been something that pops up in the media every few years or so and then lies dormant again for decades.
> 
> ...


I'm afraid you're wrong in saying there's a difference between psychopath and sociopath. They are simply two different words which, when studied closely, define the exact same condition (today described as antisocial personality disorder - APD or ASPD). It's a physical, neurological disorder - plenty of studies have shown physical differences. For example, people with APD generally have reduced grey matter in the prefrontal cortex (which is active in considering the consequences of actions and working towards defined goals).

People with APD lack the ability to experience many basic human emotions. They can't feel fear or anticipation in the way that most people do. A study was conducted where people with APD and people without were given a severe electric shock and then told they'd get another the same in ten second's time. The subjects without APD showed fear reactions like elevated heart rate, whereas subjects with APD did not react at all. They were literally unable to imagine something negative happening in the future. This is why many people with APD become criminals - they don't feel responsible for their own actions and they can't imagine the possible future consequences of things they do.

There's also a lot of talk about empathy going on, which often leads to autism being brought into the discussion. To simplify - there are two kinds of empathy. Cognitive empathy is the ability to predict or 'read' other people's thoughts and feelings. Sympathetic empathy is the ability to care about and make connections with others. Autistic people lack cognitive empathy, but they _do _feel sympathetic empathy. People with APD have plenty of cognitive empathy, but no sympathetic empathy. That's why it's possible for them to be highly manipulative - because they can read others in the usual way, but they don't care about the effect their behaviour has on people.


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## Pyromaniac (Apr 2, 2013)

Watch Key Phone said:


> No such thing as a 'minor' psychopath.


1 in 10 people are psychopathic. I'll let you think about that.


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## Watch Key Phone (Mar 29, 2013)

Ignitus said:


> 1 in 10 people are psychopathic. I'll let you think about that.


Source?


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## Pyromaniac (Apr 2, 2013)

Watch Key Phone said:


> Source?


1 in 100*, that was honestly a typo!

Are You a Psychopath?


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## Watch Key Phone (Mar 29, 2013)

Ignitus said:


> 1 in 100*, that was honestly a typo!
> 
> Are You a Psychopath?


Oh good, I was just going to tell you it was 1 in 100. No harm done.

Still, doesn't mean you can be 'minor'. APD is generally an 'on or off' thing. There's no psychopathic spectrum.

Edit: Just looked over that article. It's appallingly full of stereotypes and misinformation. You can't tell whether someone is a psychopath by answering one hypothetical question. There was a post earlier in this thread correcting the intelligence assumption.

It's also pretty harmful to talk about people with APD as being fundamentally 'not human'. APD is a physically defined disorder, just like autism, depression, schizophrenia or anything else. It doesn't mean they aren't human. If we're going to accept humanity, we also have to accept that it comes along with disorders which seem scary and impossible to understand, but are nonetheless part of our species.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Watch Key Phone said:


> I'm afraid you're wrong in saying there's a difference between psychopath and sociopath. They are simply two different words which, when studied closely, define the exact same condition (today described as antisocial personality disorder - APD or ASPD). It's a physical, neurological disorder - plenty of studies have shown physical differences. For example, people with APD generally have reduced grey matter in the prefrontal cortex (which is active in considering the consequences of actions and working towards defined goals).
> 
> People with APD lack the ability to experience many basic human emotions. They can't feel fear or anticipation in the way that most people do. A study was conducted where people with APD and people without were given a severe electric shock and then told they'd get another the same in ten second's time. The subjects without APD showed fear reactions like elevated heart rate, whereas subjects with APD did not react at all. They were literally unable to imagine something negative happening in the future. This is why many people with APD become criminals - they don't feel responsible for their own actions and they can't imagine the possible future consequences of things they do.
> 
> There's also a lot of talk about empathy going on, which often leads to autism being brought into the discussion. To simplify - there are two kinds of empathy. Cognitive empathy is the ability to predict or 'read' other people's thoughts and feelings. Sympathetic empathy is the ability to care about and make connections with others. Autistic people lack cognitive empathy, but they _do _feel sympathetic empathy. People with APD have plenty of cognitive empathy, but no sympathetic empathy. That's why it's possible for them to be highly manipulative - because they can read others in the usual way, but they don't care about the effect their behaviour has on people.


They are both diagnosed with ASPD. ls what l was saying...yes lol.

lt's confusing since psychopaths are still said to be born that way and usually more on the aggressive and outwardly ''not normal" side of things (although it varies).

But l agree with you about the brains being similar, even if a young child is affected and they weren't born with those tendencies, the changes that happen in the brain are permanent and are going to show up differently than non ASPD brains. Similar enough to the psychopath for clinicians to decide that they have the same disorder even though it occurs in different ways is what l gather.

Though the differences in behavior are still observed.

''David Lykken a behavioral geneticist for the University of Minnesota has come to an interesting conclusion regarding the differences between sociopaths and psychopaths. Lykken studies revealed that psychopaths are born with temperamental differences that lead them to being risk seekers, impulsive, fearless as well as not being able to socialize normally. Sociopaths have normal temperaments, and their personality disorder tends to effect their lives regarding parenting, peers, and their intelligence.''

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

So it seems that the sociopath is still left with a little more charm typically because they had it in the first place. Or retaining cognitive empathy while lacking affective (which l'm guessing is the same as sympathetic). 

And maybe still retaining just enough affective empathy to not be quite as rotten as a psychopath, but not enough to be a decent human being (l would never associate with anyone diagnosed with the label regardless of cause, knowingly). ln the sociopath's case it is a little sad, though.

The psychopath can learn charm but usually radiates something that people just don't trust, most serial killers are said to be psycho instead of sociopathic(though obviously serial killers can fool some people)... l have personally been hardcore creeped out by the infamous ones.


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## Pyromaniac (Apr 2, 2013)

Watch Key Phone said:


> Oh good, I was just going to tell you it was 1 in 100. No harm done.
> 
> Still, doesn't mean you can be 'minor'. APD is generally an 'on or off' thing. There's no psychopathic spectrum.
> 
> ...


In that case, resort to The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson.

Really? Well, perhaps you can be a psychopath, but not display all the symptoms, such as a complete lack of empathy?


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## Watch Key Phone (Mar 29, 2013)

Ignitus said:


> In that case, resort to The Psychopath Test by Jon Ronson.
> 
> Really? Well, perhaps you can be a psychopath, but not display all the symptoms, such as a complete lack of empathy?


I've read it.

If you don't display all the symptoms, then you aren't a psychopath. That's what the symptoms mean.


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## Watch Key Phone (Mar 29, 2013)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> They are both diagnosed with ASPD. ls what l was saying...yes lol.
> 
> lt's confusing since psychopaths are still said to be born that way and usually more on the aggressive and outwardly ''not normal" side of things (although it varies).
> 
> ...


There is simply not enough clear evidence to distinguish between them. There's a huge amount of debate amongst psychologists about what the different words mean, and whether they are different things or not. Most of the time it's agreed that both psycopath and sociopath are outdated terms. Trying to make a distinction between them, in either cause or behaviour, is essentially pointless and doesn't achieve anything anyway. It just perpetuates the mistaken idea that they are different, or that anyone is diagnosed as _either_, any more. The DSM contains APD and nothing else.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Watch Key Phone said:


> No such thing as a 'minor' psychopath.


This, too. These lists that circulate with traits are misleading and most people have some of the traits. NTs unfortunately having many.

But they don't bother in making the distinction of the neurological causes behind the behavior, so you have teenagers online thinking they are borderline psychopaths (and most thinking it's cool).


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Watch Key Phone said:


> There is simply not enough clear evidence to distinguish between them. There's a huge amount of debate amongst psychologists about what the different words mean, and whether they are different things or not. Most of the time it's agreed that both psycopath and sociopath are outdated terms. Trying to make a distinction between them, in either cause or behavior, is essentially pointless and doesn't achieve anything anyway. It just perpetuates the mistaken idea that they are different, or that anyone is diagnosed as _either_, any more. The DSM contains APD and nothing else.


Well since the debate continues among the medical community and the differences in behavior are still being observed l don't really think anyone is at liberty to say whether they're exactly the same or not.

ASPD as well as all personality disorders are a description of traits gathered from observing behavior, continuing to observe behavior and drawing a different conclusion later on is no different than what they've already done.

But since there is no (current) way to detect how subtle the differences in the neurology between the two are for now, it makes enough sense for them use the ASPD label and leave it at that.

But they haven't decided themselves and the DSM is generally a work in progress that reflects psychiatry's current knowledge rather than a foolproof verification tool. 

Many disorders could be and are categorized differently as new information is found, so there is no reason the current DSM labels cant be questioned when the medical community is still questioning themselves.


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## Watch Key Phone (Mar 29, 2013)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> Well since the debate continues among the medical community and the differences in behavior are still being observed l don't really think anyone is at liberty to say whether they're exactly the same or not.
> 
> ASPD as well as all personality disorders are a description of traits gathered from observing behavior, continuing to observe behavior and drawing a different conclusion later on is no different than what they've already done.
> 
> ...


The problem is that there isn't a neurological difference. And if there's not a neurological difference, then observed differences in behaviour are just that - observed behaviour. You might just as well say "There are two types of children - blibs and blobs. Blibs cry a lot, blobs cry less". Of course different people with APD behave differently to each other. Just like all humans, they are different. But it's meaningless to make a distinction when it is only defined by observed behaviour.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

well, l'm mostly saying that l think they may not have the means to detect the more subtle differences aside from the impact on white matter.

The work being done with brain imaging is so new, and l think it's implications are huge but what we know could be considered false in 10 years. As far as all the major disorders are concerned, what they discover in the future could change many things.

Since they also observed different outcomes in temperament based on the childhood experiences of the two it would still seem to make sense to assume that one group was affected by their external environment was and one wasn't.

But in reality, when these patients actually need to be treated you need a label that can simplify the traits to a degree that they receive the help they need so l do understand why the DSM and psychiatry need to come to a consluion for those reasons.

Actually what seems likely to me is that it's the same disorder(with the same predisposition) and is sometimes "triggered" in childhood by the environment. So that may result in some more normal development being retained in a case like this, but ultimately the same character traits.


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## Animus Tigridis (Apr 5, 2013)

There is a very high price they pay. Have you ever felt kinship, friendship, or love, and felt it returned? Have you ever hugged someone, and felt comforted, or connected? Felt peace and contentment in an embrace? This connection, they're incapable of it. They can do the acts, but not feel what these acts actually signify.


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## Bardo (Dec 4, 2012)

Depresso said:


> -Lack of fear
> -Charming
> -Highly intelligence
> -Women are attracted to you
> ...



LOLwut. How about...

-No creativity or personality depth of any kind, making psychopaths almost their own blank wingless 
enneagram type with all the members 99% similar to each other.

-Highly intelligent? Try incapable of incorporating experiences properly into their long term mind, failing to handle shit like washing clothes regularly and repeating ridiculous mistakes constantly like selling cars for 1/8 of it's proper price for no reason and throwing all of their clothes away and wasting all their money on more, leaving them unable to pay their bills.

-Insane grandiose fantasies of being a rockstar with no musical experience whatsoever/deciding to be a stock market investor because they saw trading places on DVD


Gods among people? They aren't even a lesser form of person, they are walking corpses. If zombies ever become a reality, if a body could be animated without the power of a real life inside of it, they would behave like psychopaths. 

All they do is copy behavior, forever and ever, like glorified tape recorders. They think people are worthless and yet they would lick shit off a razor blade for their attention, they desire the validation of regular humans as if their proximity temporarily fills in the hole where their soul should be. They are a paradox at their very core, they have no reason to exist.
If you ever get a chance to really argue properly with a psychopath you would see that _it_ glitches like a computer and has no substance whatsoever.


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## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

Wormwood said:


> They can do nothing about it. Going and doing stuff doesn't alleviate the dissatisfaction. They are incapable of finding true enjoyment or meaning in their lives.


Beat me to it. If anybody wants to see the _true joy_ of being one, try observing a suspected sociopath in the constant presence of two people in love. You will see it driving them absolutely crazy, as they use all of their weapons to try to subterfuge them out of sheer hatred of the most profound degree.


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## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

Animus Tigridis said:


> There is a very high price they pay. Have you ever felt kinship, friendship, or love, and felt it returned? Have you ever hugged someone, and felt comforted, or connected? Felt peace and contentment in an embrace? This connection, they're incapable of it. They can do the acts, but not feel what these acts actually signify.


Exactly. The reason sociopaths are usually extremely promiscuous, is they are like a cocaine addict chasing the euphoria of that first line, except the sociopath is chasing any type of high, which they observe in nearly all others around them.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Bardo said:


> LOLwut. How about...
> 
> -No creativity or personality depth of any kind, making psychopaths almost their own blank wingless
> enneagram type with all the members 99% similar to each other.
> ...


This is a lot like someone l know with a disorder that shall not be named.

The last part IS her core and what made me give up on her.

What's creepy is that l couldn't see for years that it was the case, which is common so it shouldn't be surprising but in the exact moment when l saw the entire system fail and all of her appropriate ''feelings'' for any situation fail to be accessed through her hard drive of a brain l was really shaken. 

There was no reaching ANY kind of person in there and every response from her was a reactive, nasty comment based on what she thought was most appropriate in the moment, nothing underneath.

She adjusted well enough back to her normal self since then but l saw what she is and l've kept my distance since n__n


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## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

Also, killing person after person, in a futile attempt to satiate the demons inside of you, does not exactly seem like a blessing. I know the serial killer is exceedingly rare, but it is an exaggeration of their typical behavior.


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## FlightsOfFancy (Dec 30, 2012)

Of all cluster Bs, I'd imagine Narcissists would be the most functional whereas Borderlines would be the least (but most 'tolerable' when they realize/get treated). Sociopaths' impulsitivity probably makes them less functional than is related here.


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## Elodin (Feb 10, 2013)

Not all psychopaths or sociopaths are criminals, nor are they all self-destructive. Nor do they all have a dark side(at least, no more than the average person). 

Lack of fear is not bravery. 

And I only read the first few posts, not sure if what I've said in this post has already been said...


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## Wormwood (Feb 24, 2012)

They may not all be self-destructive, but their impulsivity lends itself to self-destructive behavior in the typical, normative case. But that was besides the point. The point is that, whatever an xpath does, it will ultimately be unsatisfying, which addresses the OPs stance that it would be a blessing to have all those attributes, and further, that the emptiness they feel _often_ _does _lead to criminal and self-destructive behavior, as they search for the high they're incapable of having.


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## Elodin (Feb 10, 2013)

Wormwood said:


> They may not all be self-destructive, but their impulsivity lends itself to self-destructive behavior in the typical, normative case.


Any reputable source for this? Preferably from the last 15 years, as even today we don't understand much at all about sociopathy. Most psychologist agree that the majority of sociopath/psychopaths go undiagnosed. Given that, how can we make assumptions as to how prevalent a symptom is in the sociopath population? 

Do people with ADHD tend to be self-destructive? What is the difference between the impulsivity of ADHD and the impulsivity that sociopaths have? I'm referring to adults with ADHD of course, not children who are unaware of societal customs. 




Wormwood said:


> The point is that, whatever an xpath does, it will ultimately be unsatisfying


Since when do sociopath and psychopaths not feel satisfaction? 



Wormwood said:


> which addresses the OPs stance that it would be a blessing to have all those attributes


Some might consider it a blessing. Merely because it is not favorable to you does not mean it is not favorable to another. 



Wormwood said:


> that the emptiness they feel _often_ _does _lead to criminal and self-destructive behavior, as they search for the high they're incapable of having.


How would you define often? 1/100? 1/50? 1/20? 1/10? 1/5? 1/3? 1/2? 
Do you have any recent studies to back up this claim?


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## Wormwood (Feb 24, 2012)

Elodin said:


> Any reputable source for this? Preferably from the last 15 years, as even today we don't understand much at all about sociopathy. Most psychologist agree that the majority of sociopath/psychopaths go undiagnosed. Given that, how can we make assumptions as to how prevalent a symptom is in the sociopath population?


Got me there.



Elodin said:


> Do people with ADHD tend to be self-destructive? What is the difference between the impulsivity of ADHD and the impulsivity that sociopaths have? I'm referring to adults with ADHD of course, not children who are unaware of societal customs.


The difference is the source of the impulsivity. xpaths are impulsive because of their inability to find lasting enjoyment in anything, and over time, they push further and further to find that thing which they think will give them pleasure. ADHDs do not have this problem. 






Elodin said:


> Since when do sociopath and psychopaths not feel satisfaction?


...? Since the conception of the disorder.





Elodin said:


> Some might consider it a blessing. Merely because it is not favorable to you does not mean it is not favorable to another.


The point I was making there is that since they can feel no lasting satisfaction, none of those characteristics contribute to their overall happiness. The unsaid assumption in the OP is that it would be a blessing to have those attributes because of one's ability to enjoy them. I mean, if someone were to donate their lottery winnings to me after I'm dead, it would be of no use to me.





Elodin said:


> How would you define often? 1/100? 1/50? 1/20? 1/10? 1/5? 1/3? 1/2?
> Do you have any recent studies to back up this claim?


Nope, no studies on hand. Sorry.


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## Wormwood (Feb 24, 2012)

.


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## Ruru (Mar 9, 2013)

Lacking of fear seems to be nearer to death


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## Dark NiTe (Mar 5, 2012)

Elodin said:


> Any reputable source for this? Preferably from the last 15 years, as even today we don't understand much at all about sociopathy. Most psychologist agree that the majority of sociopath/psychopaths go undiagnosed. Given that, how can we make assumptions as to how prevalent a symptom is in the sociopath population?


Probably using scientific behavior research methods


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## brittauzenne (Feb 8, 2013)

in the context of "ignorance is bliss" okay. sure. but in reality, they're truly the dumbest people on the planet. numb and only floating through life. not really experiencing anything real.


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## Wormwood (Feb 24, 2012)

I'd like to elaborate on something real quick, as I know I have a tendency to leave important details up for interpretation.

A xpath's inability to feel lasting satisfaction is related to their less-than-functional negative-reinforcement system, thereby leading them to not learn from their mistakes, thereby leading them to a failure to plan ahead, thus never doing anything with lasting satisfaction. I don't know that they're theoretically incapable of feeling it, but they are practically incapable. Further, one of the most necessary things that a human needs to feel happy in the long term is deep interpersonal connection, which we both know they are incapable of.


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## mental blockstack (Dec 15, 2011)

Depresso said:


> A trait which I always wanted. Seems like you have to be a psychopath or a sociopath to calm in the face of great dangers.


Completely untrue. Get braver through enduring fear, if you want this trait.

Although, the calm levelheaded ability to make rational decisions under pressure does seem to be associated more with certain types than others. But I think it's still a possible trait to develop, if you're lacking in it.


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## Elodin (Feb 10, 2013)

Wormwood said:


> The difference is the source of the impulsivity. xpaths are impulsive because of their inability to find lasting enjoyment in anything, and over time, they push further and further to find that thing which they think will give them pleasure. ADHDs do not have this problem.
> 
> 
> ...? Since the conception of the disorder.
> ...



Most researchers agree that psychopaths and sociopaths do have emotions, but they present it in a blunted affect. They may not perceive the emotions in the same way we do, but they certainly have them, even if in diminished amounts. Guilt would be one defining characteristic that some researcher will point out. Some researchers define sociopaths as those who lack guilt. That is all. Others have other definitions...

And Being a sociopath is not a disorder in itself. It is a title which does not refer to the antisocial personality disorder. 







I suggest watching this video, it is fairly interest. I don't believe they talk about emotions until about halfway through it though


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## Bardo (Dec 4, 2012)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> This is a lot like someone l know with a disorder that shall not be named.
> 
> The last part IS her core and what made me give up on her.
> 
> ...




Good for you, some people never see it... or pretend not to. It's very interesting to recall interactions with psychopaths, if it didn't take such dramatic events to get to the point where they fail to keep up with themselves then meeting them would be quite a novelty.


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## Jetsune Lobos (Apr 23, 2012)

benr3600 said:


> Also, killing person after person, in a futile attempt to satiate the demons inside of you, does not exactly seem like a blessing. I know the serial killer is exceedingly rare, but it is an exaggeration of their typical behavior.


_What_?

"Why eat when you know you'll just be hungry later?"

I think you're being really unfair towards the serial killers/rapists/compulsive nose-pickers here.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

A lot of the traits both have make it very difficult for them to function within human society & they seem to lack a lot of the adaptations normal humans have in order to ensure survival of the species. They aren't all highly intelligent, the distribution is normal from average to high intelligence.

If we look at it this way, both are rather primitive compared to a normally functioning person.

I find it funny that they are usually extroverts thou. My ex neighbor was/is psychopathic >.< he really can't plan ahead and nothing seems to satisfy him, string of failed relationships, jobs and so on. He is very charming and a good liar thou, but I doubt he'd kill anyone despite having some sadistic tendencies. His life is a train wreck thou and I wouldn't want to be him.

A lot of people, myself including avoid him even if they don't know why he is the way he is. I think he will have a very miserable time when he gets old.


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## Wormwood (Feb 24, 2012)

FreeBeer said:


> I think he will have a very miserable time when he gets old.


Assuming he gets old. I knew a sociopath that, at the ripe old age of 19, had 1 and a quarter lungs, and had already had a scrape with death just from his smoking habits.


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## Das Brechen (Nov 26, 2011)

In my opinion, I wouldn't agree that it's a "blessing" but I do see little merit in being a psycho/sociopath. This subject to me, like most things, is all a matter of differing points of view. If the goal is defined as happiness being attained though deep, interpersonal connection then of course ASPD is the complete opposite. I've already been called out on a tendency for negative reinforcement...:dry:


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Such persons possess a power stemming from their negative adaptation to culture and the universe. They commit a few fairly high and in my opinion moral errors all a part of the alarmingly increasing trend towards separationist philosophy. 

As a result, as many have already said another way in this thread, they lose the precious gift of belonging. They degrade their sense of compassion or eternal love. 

In the end this perhaps the most heinous problem you can have so of course it comes disguised as a great blessing.


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## elixare (Aug 26, 2010)

:kitteh::kitteh::kitteh:


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## angeleyes (Feb 20, 2013)

Shallow, remorseless people with poor impulse control, and prone to depression, boredom, anxiety, and depression. Not very glamorous once you get past the surface.


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## benoticed (Nov 14, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> I guess that makes my cat a god.












no offense to any cat worshiping Egyptians


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## AlwaysQuestionLife (Apr 17, 2013)

While I see your viewpoint and don't dismiss it as wrong (maybe because I used to think the same thing), I can't say I agree with it. I think that while emotions can be burdensome, if we are not capable of bearing that burden, we will never be strong. Being human is essentially trying to balance out your emotion with your logic. If someone loses one of the two (emotion/logic) they will end up committing serious crimes including, but not limited to, serial killing, murder, rape, etc. Having a condition that directly affects your control over one of the two seems like an enormous loss in my eyes.


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## serenesam (Jul 26, 2011)

Depresso said:


> -Don't crack under pressure


Yeah, this is something that appears to lack in so many people.


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## Cryoshakespeare (Dec 7, 2011)

That's like saying going to heaven or any other less changing state is a blessing. It's not, something isn't good if you are completely accustomed to it, life will not feel better than before because that abstract concept of before never existed! Change and the flow, ups and downs of emotion at the very least allows us for reference points to look to so we can judge whether our life is better or worse at the moment. Having no emotions seems as fine and dandy as anything, but I wouldn't call it a blessing, it's just a thing.


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## Intre (Jun 21, 2013)

Bardo said:


> If you ever get a chance to really argue properly with a psychopath you would see that _it_ glitches like a computer and has no substance whatsoever.


I think this is really spot on and looking back one of the first signs that there was something seriously wrong with that person. I didn't really know anything about psychopaths back then and it took couple of more months for me to really see what was going on.




OMG WTF BRO said:


> the exact moment when l saw the entire system fail and all of her appropriate ''feelings'' for any situation fail to be accessed through her hard drive of a brain l was really shaken.
> 
> There was no reaching ANY kind of person in there and every response from her was a reactive, nasty comment based on what she thought was most appropriate in the moment, nothing underneath.


That is also something I think is very true with psychopaths. I'm interested in MBTI so tried to type that person I knew and it was quite hard for the reasons I now understand. I think the person she portrayed was closest to ESTP though at times she seemed like an introvert. I can't really see psychopaths fitting with the MBTI since they don't have real personalities or feelings, and a blessing it certainly is not.


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

angeleyes said:


> Shallow, remorseless people with poor impulse control, and prone to depression, boredom, anxiety, and depression. Not very glamorous once you get past the surface.


Perhaps you're thinking of narcissistic personality disorder, and not anti-social personality disorder? Psychopaths/sociopaths tend to be fine regarding general mood as far as I've researched.

I think the downside is that they have a naturally lower ability than average to experience empathic joy, and deep attachments to others which requires emotional empathy.

But being a pro-social psychopath doesn't seem that bad...

(This man is a psychopath and neuroscientist)


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.


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## DarkWolf (Sep 6, 2013)

Depresso said:


> -Lack of fear
> -Charming
> -Highly intelligence
> -Women are attracted to you
> ...



They are not that good at reading people. They usually don't know the difference between a scared face and a sad face. Lack of fear isn't good either.

Being a psycho is only good if you are a businessman. Not being able to feel and experience all the good things in life is not a blessing. It is far from being a blessing. They are superior to us in some ways indeed, but they are mostly fucked up. I do believe that psychopaths are necessary. They get the job done when no one else does. They do what we can't. We need them. But they are not better than us, except for the situations that demand psychopathic behavior.

I actually feel bad for them and for those around them.


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## dvnj22 (Apr 24, 2013)

I agree with you op. That's why many psychopaths are very successful in life.


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## Number Six (Mar 4, 2013)

i duno i fink its pretty stoopid 2 fink lyk dat?

der nt always vry smart n dey rnt always "charmin". dey also vry fake. dey r like super dooper narcissts cept less feelins n stuff so dey dnt flip out as much wen u poke em...

i fink dey prolly luk at u n feel jeluz sumtimes, just lyk u luk @ dem n fink this stuff... anger, jeluz n frustration r da big fings dese folk feel. y is that cool? its lyk da lowest vibes...lyk coverin urself in mud n walkin round lurnin to act lyk ur clean...

mayb u shud do dat? cover ur self in mud n walk bout tellin every1 u r all clean:tongue:

prolly hlp u becum fearlesss hahaha

just makes me fink of sum1 starin at 2 glaases of soda...

jimmys got a glass full of soda n timmy has a glass full of bubbles

jimmy spills some of his soda and nw he luks at timmy n finks "amg i want ur soda!!!"

wot does dis mean? it means jimmy is a dummy :tongue:

he dsnt no dat timmy has less dan him, even tho it luks lyk he has mor...

poor timmy only ever got bubbles...even a wee bit of soda is better dan bubbles, ok m8? dont b jelly of timmy. nufin 2 b jelly of haha

u njoy ur glass of soda ok?

Bye bye=)


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## Kysinor (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm for reducing the population of people with sociopathic behavior if possible. A few is needed for diversification I guess otherwise they should have no role in society... and if they can't help themselves... then they need to be controlled somehow...


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## sinshred (Dec 1, 2013)

Psychopath are clumsy in their action, easy to catch their psychogenic behavior. their actually have no control, no intelligence, Outside they may have everything, but inside their head is just emptiness. What so blessing then being one of them?


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## angeleyes (Feb 20, 2013)

strangestdude said:


> Perhaps you're thinking of narcissistic personality disorder, and not anti-social personality disorder? Psychopaths/sociopaths tend to be fine regarding general mood as far as I've researched.
> 
> I think the downside is that they have a naturally lower ability than average to experience empathic joy, and deep attachments to others which requires emotional empathy.
> 
> ...


Actually, I was referring to a study of Anti Social Personality Disorder patients enrolled in an MMT program who were also diagnosed with Major Depression. These patients responded well to psychotherapy and cognitive therapy. Patients without ASPD fared the best in the treatment program and, oddly, patients with ASPD and depression did only slightly worse than non ASPD patients, but sociopaths without major depression did much worse. (Cognitive Therapy of Personality Disorders, Beck, Freeman, Davis) Since both Narcissistic and Anti Social are in the same cluster, I imagine there could be some overlap, and thus some confusion. I'm no expert.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

Hi everybody, my name is Brynn Casey and I have been diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder.

A blessing? I wouldn't know. It's just how I think. At my best, I'm a creature of logic. I often feel like I'm the only one seeing situations/people as they really are and everyone else is seeing things through fogged up glasses or something. Maybe that's my ego kicking in.

But if anyone had questions for a sociopath now would be the time. roud:


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## dreamsunwind (Dec 1, 2013)

Completely incapable of relating to other people; will never begin to grasp love. 

That's a curse.


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## Number Six (Mar 4, 2013)

BrynnCasey said:


> Hi everybody, my name is Brynn Casey and I have been diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder.
> 
> A blessing? I wouldn't know. It's just how I think. At my best, I'm a creature of logic. I often feel like I'm the only one seeing situations/people as they really are and everyone else is seeing things through fogged up glasses or something. Maybe that's my ego kicking in.
> 
> But if anyone had questions for a sociopath now would be the time. roud:


wots logical bout actin disordrd? gota do lots of silly stuf 2 get a diagnonsense lyk dat rite?


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

> wots logical bout actin disordrd? gota do lots of silly stuf 2 get a diagnonsense lyk dat rite?


Firstly, if you have a disorder, you aren't 'acting disordered.' You have a psychological disorder. True, it's disputed whether psychological disorders are born or made. In my opinion, it's a combination of both. Maybe biological predetermination under the wrong circumstances bring out extremes of behavior. There is a neurological difference between people like me, sociopaths, and empaths. I have significantly higher dopamine levels, lower frontal lobe activity levels, and I lack a 'typical' response in my amygdala, the biological basis of ASPD.

With my family history though, It's hard for me to believe there isn't some basis in hereditary that contributes to psychological disorders. My grandmother was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder by a psychiatrist. I also have immediate family members with Bipolar Disorder, Depression, Anxiety, and PTSD. I believe one of my extended family members suffered from Schizophrenia and I know of another extended family member who was institutionalized.

In regards to my diagnosis, I had no idea what a sociopath was or that it had a name (Antisocial Personality Disorder) until I was in college. I am a Psychology major and one of my first courses in my major was in Abnormal Psychology. My professor, a research psychologist with a PhD in her field, was outlining the defining aspects of ASPD (Antisocial Personality Disorder) and I noticed several links between the behavior described and my own behavior. I decided to present my thoughts to her for her own information and further research into personality disorders, as I myself was fascinated. After psychiatric testing, a review of my personal history, and a review of my early childhood behavior, my professor said that she would certainly consider me antisocial. 

ASPD is usually only treated with therapy when it causes severe impairment in someone's ability to meet their basic human needs. I am a relatively high functioning member of society (though yes, I do have a record) so my disorder and neurological differences is not enough cause for me to seek out further treatment.


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## Number Six (Mar 4, 2013)

BrynnCasey said:


> Firstly, if you have a disorder, you aren't 'acting disordered.' You have a psychological disorder. True, it's disputed whether psychological disorders are born or made. In my opinion, it's a combination of both. Maybe biological predetermination under the wrong circumstances bring out extremes of behavior. There is a neurological difference between people like me, sociopaths, and empaths. I have significantly higher dopamine levels, lower frontal lobe activity levels, and I lack a 'typical' response in my amygdala, the biological basis of ASPD.
> 
> With my family history though, It's hard for me to believe there isn't some basis in hereditary that contributes to psychological disorders. My grandmother was diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder by a psychiatrist. I also have immediate family members with Bipolar Disorder, Depression, Anxiety, and PTSD. I believe one of my extended family members suffered from Schizophrenia and I know of another extended family member who was institutionalized.
> 
> ...


actn disordred and bein disordrd is the same fing unles u fakin 4 sum reason. i sed aCTN bcuz mst times ppl who get diagnonsense lyk dis is a result of being nauhty nd actn out nt bcuz dey go lukin 4 it. i only ask cuz havin an oficial diagnonense 4 dis particalur disordr is silly cuz it can be used aganst u in cases of recidivism so wen u said u was mostly logical i was lyk "WTF " but if its nt a oficial diagnonsense den dat is gud 4 u!

glad 2 no u is a relativly hifunctioning member of society. =)


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

Acting disordered is imitation. A person suffering from a psychological disorder is not 'acting.' That's like saying depressed people just need to stop acting depressed to get over their depression.

Having ASPD does not make me destined to criminal behavior. In fact, ASPD is a significant strength for people in positions of high power or positions of executive management, where it's essential to be rational and somewhat cold for the sake of their position. The estimated number of sociopaths on Wall Street is 1/10. Same for professionals in media and law.

I don't know what you mean by, 'used against me', I just know I have it. But then, is a psychological disorder ever an excuse for poor behavior? In a court of law, being mentally unstable would not excuse me from sanctions for whatever part of the social contract I broke. You can, in severe cases, be found Not Guilty on grounds of insanity, but that just makes you eligible for treatment and rehabilitation rather than a prison environment. There's an assumption that if you are going to join the rest of society and live among it, you are psychologically well enough to function in it. 

With ASPD, I am incapable of feeling the empathy that the majority of my peers experience. But I have no problem with that. I call ASPD "logical" because I am not swayed by moral incentives, which I can only imagine would make it difficult for me to get what I want. Empaths play an important role in society, but maybe I won this evolutionary lottery because it's necessary for me a different role.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

DeductiveReasoner said:


> I was basically trying to emphasize their lack of the ability to understand emotions, regardless of whether they have emotions or not. Seeing as how the word "intelligence" is defined as "having understanding" lack of emotional understanding isn't going to make someone _more_ intelligent.
> 
> That was the point I was trying to make. Sorry if it seemed otherwise. I find the diagnosis of psych/sociopath kind of sketchy anyway. It reminds me of when I was a young teenager (13-17), like maybe these people didn't grow up or learn how to plan for the future. (That comment might step on a few toes :frustrating


Well, some people posit that they have frontal lobe damage or less gray matter in the frontal cortex. So in a way yes they are actually retarded. Not intellectually per se, but emotionally. 

I think young teenager is still a stretch. Complete disregard for others, not caring about the pain of other living things, and constant emptiness filled by drugs, alcohol, sex, money or power isn't even normal in a young teenager, though the poor impulse control and self absorption would be.

I know some one I suspect of sociopathic tendencies who steals, and not from strangers but acquaintances, friends and loved ones, who is promiscuous in a very callous, cruel and calculating way (opposed to respectful casual sex), seems addicted to porn and has poor impulse control. He also has a history of mild violence and paranoia. He suffered a head injury around age twelve, to the front of his head.


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

angeleyes said:


> Actually, I was referring to a study of Anti Social Personality Disorder patients enrolled in an MMT program who were also diagnosed with Major Depression.


So did that study suggest that people with ASPD are prone to depression and anxiety?

Because from that sentence it seems like it's a study specifically of depressed people with ASPD.


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

BrynnCasey said:


> But if anyone had questions for a sociopath now would be the time. roud:


Hi,

Why do you think you chose to become a psych major?

And what kind of art do you gravitate towards, and why do you think you do?


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

DeductiveReasoner said:


> I hate this whole idea that sociopathy/psychopathy automatically indicates intelligence.


A friend who has a psych degree has said that from his research there is a correlation with low iq and criminals who are diagnosed as psychopaths - but it's 'unpc' to talk about. And he thinks that a lot of diagnosed criminals are disproportionately people of below average intelligence, who grew up in an unempathic social environment (generally inattentive to their emotional signals), and who didn't learn how to empathize and/or delay gratification.

Based on my life experience, observations, and research... Developing empathy (non-judgmental awareness of others needs, emotions, values and desires) requires an awareness of your own emotional signals, and consciously contemplating others needs. So I can see where he's coming from.

And according to this psychologist (in the vid) who researches psychopathy, there have been results from experiments that indicate that psychopaths tend to have information processing difficulties (they block out peripheral information, that non-psychopaths habitually pick up on), and lack an habitual awareness of emotional signals.

Office Hours: Psychopathy - YouTube


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

DeductiveReasoner said:


> wait, someone please explain to me why women are attracted to psychopaths.
> 
> I didn't know I was supposed to find people who lack the capacity to love me attractive.


I forgot to address this. Sometimes because of their high seratonin they seem ultra masculine due to their unnatural calm. They may come across as alpha males. Particularly cunning sociopaths who make sex their game (instead of money or murder or authority) will derive selfish pleasure from manipulating and controlling women, to bend them to their will.

And even if the sociopath doesn't experience agape love or truly empathetic relationships, they still can form attachments. Ted Bundy was obsessed with his ex girlfriend, and had another girlfriend at his time of arrest. Women who are vulnerable to sociopaths or psychopaths may get off by feelings of being controlled by the sociopath or psychopaths, mistaking it for ultra masculine behavior, even if the man treats her badly. 

And if you have a smarter psychopath like Ted Bundy remember he never murdered friends or gfs, only strangers, mostly strangers who looked like the ex he was fixated on. Speaking of her, he planned out his whole life to get her back and impress her, just so he could dump her when she thought he was about to propose. He spent years on his revenge on the woman who spurned him, out of obsession, but obviously not real love.

A lot of people are vulnerable to obsession and things which actually are not love. How about those Manson girls.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

@OldIntern 

No I haven't. I'm a 7w8, a Red on the Hartman, and an ESTP. But that'll be the next test I'll take.

Kill someone? Well, not without a damn good reason. Being a sociopath does not incline me towards violence, I just don't respond to it emotionally. In fact, I'm not sure where the idea came up that empaths are incapable of doing horrific or violent deeds and not feeling bad. A violent empath is hateful and malicious. A violent apath lacks self control. For the empath, whoever is victim to their cruelty is being punished. Some of the worst acts of violence are the work of empaths, misguided and brainwashed. Think of religious extremists. 

I didn't have pets when I was a kid, so I really don't know. Again, I don't gain anything from it. I remember when I was maybe ten, a sparrow managed to get stuck in our house. It was on the upper floor, and my house had an isolated second floor with a single, narrow entrance and high ceilings. The chances of it finding its way out were slim to none. So I turned on the fan on the second floor and the bird flew into it. Did I gain some sort of satisfaction from killing the sparrow? No, I was just trying to solve the problem in the easiest way possible. Do you feel sorry for a spider when you step on it?

I suppose with extreme cases of sociopathic/psychopathic behavior, such as serial killers, they gain a certain feeling of power from seeing someone/something suffer coupled with their inability to feel empathy for it. Or they seek that adrenaline rush. Sociopaths don't get the same fear responses that empaths do, so in order to feel the same rush you get from, I don't know, hunting for sport, we get from much more dangerous/violent pursuits.

Morality for me is logic based. My ethics are based on self preservation and social preservation. You reap what you sow. I don't believe in karma, but I believe in common sense. As John Donne famously wrote,

No man is an island,
Entire of itself,
Every man is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.

My impulsivity is a result of chronic boredom. The blessing of apathy is I'm immune to anxiety, fear responses, and adrenaline rushes. The curse is the boredom. I'm bored on a daily/hourly basis. I don't get adrenaline rushes the same way empaths do, nor anxiety before making risky decisions, so it's necessary for me and other apaths to learn self control and long term consequence or we're apt to get ourselves into some sticky situations. Generally, Sociopaths lack anxiety, are fearlessness, have low stress levels, and are willing to take risks. For an executive, lawyer, etc, these are advantages. For an eighteen year old college freshman (enter Brynn) living on campus, out of money, and bored out of her mind, this is a recipe for disaster. I was snitched on for a little sideline business I was running, ie, the cops found a certain green leafy substance in my dorm that I'd had to make me some extra cash. Not that I had several other shady activities I was never caught for.


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## dreamsunwind (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't know why this @BrynnCasey person wants to be a sociopath so bad. Just because your professor considers you antisocial does't mean you're a psychopath. It's giving me secondhand embarrassment. A sociopath is not something you want to be.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

> @strangestdude Why do you think you chose to become a psych major? And what kind of art do you gravitate towards, and why do you think you do?


Psychology is my fourth major. I haven't even been in college for two years. My first was Journalism, got bored with it, went to Business, hated the classes, went to Athletic Training, hated having to take anatomy, so I kind of just went with Psychology on a whim because it seemed very versatile as a major. I also like knowing how people work.

When you say art, do you mean literally visual art or some other kind of art? I didn't really understand from where the question came from.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

BrynnCasey said:


> @OldIntern
> 
> No I haven't. I'm a 7w8, a Red on the Hartman, and an ESTP. But that'll be the next test I'll take.
> 
> ...


Your sparrow story is B.S. ...that wasn't the easiest solution. You could have told an adult or waited a day or two to see if it flew out. No, your impulse was to kill it, and a bird is not a spider. Not that I even enjoy killing spiders. As young as age four I avoided stepping on hills of black ants so I wouldn't kill them. 

Honestly to me you seem like an annoying braggy teenager. You sold weed? Who gives a fuck. You don't have to have aspd to do that. No one cares.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

> Your sparrow story is B.S. ...that wasn't the easiest solution. You could have told an adult or waited a day or two to see if it flew out. No, your impulse was to kill it, and a bird is not a spider. Not that I even enjoy killing spiders. As young as age four I avoided stepping on hills of black ants so I wouldn't kill them.
> 
> Honestly to me you seem like an annoying braggy teenager. You sold weed? Who gives a fuck. You don't have to have aspd to do that. No one cares.


I chose the options easiest to me with the least amount of time/cost. I do things for the benefit, not to make myself look good or because I want to appear a certain way.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

> I don't know why this @BrynnCasey person wants to be a sociopath so bad. Just because your professor considers you antisocial does't mean you're a psychopath. It's giving me secondhand embarrassment. A sociopath is not something you want to be.


Right, just because I share antisocial traits doesn't mean I have ASPD. Just because I have ASPD doesn't make me a psychopath. I think we're arguing from two different perspectives. ASPD just means apathetic; being apathetic does not make me violent or criminal, which you apparently tie directly to that disorder.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

BrynnCasey said:


> I chose the options easiest to me with the least amount of time/cost. I do things for the benefit, not to make myself look good or because I want to appear a certain way.


Wrong. The easiest thing for you to do was ignore the bird and do nothing, since you supposedly don't care if it was hungry or upset, why not just ignore it.

That was not the easiest thing for you to do, but the benefit, if you are a sociopath, is that you got a sick thrill out of it.

You seem more narcissistic to me than anything.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

> Wrong. The easiest thing for you to do was ignore the bird and do nothing, since you supposedly don't care if it was hungry or upset, why not just ignore it.
> 
> That was not the easiest thing for you to do, but the benefit, if you are a sociopath, is that you got a sick thrill out of it.
> 
> You seem more narcissistic to me than anything.


It's just a bird. It lives like two years tops. Do you cry when you hit a deer, or run over an animal? I don't enjoy seeing things die, I just fail to respond on some kind of emotional level. The point is moot. You make a decision differently than me because you place higher value on the birds life and it affects you on a different level than it does me.

Feel free to debate this with me further. I have trouble seeing where you're coming from by calling me braggy and narcissistic. Why is it worse for someone to make decisions on rationalism than empathetic responses?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

BrynnCasey said:


> It's just a bird. It lives like two years tops. Do you cry when you hit a deer, or run over an animal? I don't enjoy seeing things die, I just fail to respond on some kind of emotional level. The point iYuris moot. You make a decision differently than me because you place higher value on the birds life and it affects you on a different level than it does me.
> 
> Feel free to debate this with me further. I have trouble seeing where you're coming from by calling me braggy and narcissistic. Why is it worse for someone to make decisions on rationalism than empathetic responses?


Lol what you did, if you did do it, was not at all rational and completely emotional. Ignoring the bird is the truly apathetic response.

You make too much of an issue of introducing yourself and quoting yourself in your signature. It evokes a self conscious self worship with zero rational basis.

You also refer to yourself in the third person, and seem overjoyed to have an audience. You also keep congratulating yourself on your falsely believed logic.

Of course you have trouble seeing where I am coming from. Either you lack self awareness or are bad at role playing.

I believe you are cluster B, but I am not sold on anything you are trying to sell.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

BrynnCasey said:


> Hi everybody, my name is Brynn Casey and I have been diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder.
> 
> A blessing? I wouldn't know. It's just how I think. At my best, I'm a creature of logic. I often feel like I'm the only one seeing situations/people as they really are and everyone else is seeing things through fogged up glasses or something. Maybe that's my ego kicking in.
> 
> But if anyone had questions for a sociopath now would be the time. roud:


Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Gore Motel said:


> Do you like Phil Collins? I've been a big Genesis fan ever since the release of their 1980 album, Duke. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Duke where Phil Collins' presence became more apparent. I think Invisible Touch was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums.


I think Patrick Bateman was actually a delusional pathological narcissist with violent fantasies. If he really committed the murders, then sociopathic tendencies, but still narcissist as main disorder. They also lack empathy.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

@GoreMotel Haha I had to google Phil Collins


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

dreamsunwind said:


> I don't know why this @BrynnCasey person wants to be a sociopath so bad. Just because your professor considers you antisocial does't mean you're a psychopath. It's giving me secondhand embarrassment. A sociopath is not something you want to be.


I think through virtue of being ESTP 7w8 she may naturally have some antisocial tendencies, particularly when not at top health. It's really easy to read her posts and see that she actually has ADD and ....get this....likes animals.

She is definitely Se, and probably cluster B, in some ways she reminds me of myself with her nineteen year old fast driving and speeding tickets, and showy offy personality.

She ain't a sociopath.


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## ToplessOrange (Jun 3, 2013)

fourtines said:


> Your sparrow story is B.S. ...that wasn't the easiest solution. You could have told an adult or waited a day or two to see if it flew out. No, your impulse was to kill it, and a bird is not a spider. Not that I even enjoy killing spiders. As young as age four I avoided stepping on hills of black ants so I wouldn't kill them.
> 
> Honestly to me you seem like an annoying braggy teenager. You sold weed? Who gives a fuck. You don't have to have aspd to do that. No one cares. The easiest thing for you to do was ignore the bird and do nothing, since you supposedly don't care if it was hungry or upset, why not just ignore it.
> 
> ...


Dude. Woah. Okay.



> Your sparrow story is B.S. ...that wasn't the easiest solution. You could have told an adult or waited a day or two to see if it flew out.


And have a sparrow flying around every time she needed to go upstairs? Have to clean up all the inevitable bird shit? I don't think you have a very good basic understanding of economics, here. If you ran a business, I imagine it would go down very quickly. "Oh my god, we're losing buyers! QUICK! We need to take down that racy advertisement we released NOW!"
"Ehhhh...just wait a day or two, I'm sure things'll be fine. It'll die out by then."



> Honestly to me you seem like an annoying braggy teenager. You sold weed? Who gives a fuck. You don't have to have aspd to do that. No one cares.


Except you, clearly.



> You make too much of an issue of introducing yourself and quoting yourself in your signature. It evokes a self conscious self worship with zero rational basis.


Rationality is subjective, but I'll ignore that bit since everyone in the thread is apparently doing that as well. Anyways, the quote in the signature is this thing called humor. It's helpful in situations where one would like to appear conversational so as to not be attacked by people for seemingly no reason at all with trivial things, like being a sociopath and selling weed.



> You also refer to yourself in the third person, and seem overjoyed to have an audience. You also keep congratulating yourself on your falsely believed logic.


You're really driving this narcissism point home. We're discussing psychopathy and ASPD. Whether narcissism is involved or not is irrelevant.

A lot of your posts so far give me a hypocritic vibe. I don't understand why you're so certain that the "thrill" of eliminating a nuisance outweighs, in regards to sickness, what you would consider thrilling. I mean, I may have been prone to approach it differently. I've been raised with Buddhist values and all that "life is valuable" shit, and I chose to be a vegetarian in grade 6 (much to the dismay of my parents, even though they're Buddhist. TANGENT OUT OF NOWHERE: I really doubt my parents are actually Buddhists. They're such abusive fucks and they don't give a shit about anyone or anything that dies, and they're against vegetarianism. I'm pretty sure they just wanted to send me away every Sunday so they could fuck or whatever.), so I'm sure I would've taken more effort to ameliorate the sparrow's situation, but that does not make your argument anymore valid.

A correct morality is an obsolete concept, but you're standing by it fiercely. I don't know what you're gaining from that. Maybe some sort of sick thrill.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

Through all of this, fourtines, you've failed to answer my question why making a decision rationally-based is worse than making a decision empathy based. Why do you trust emotional inclinations in favor of real-life cost-benefit analysis?

Your strong reaction to my posts is enough to show that you carry some level of narcissistic self-righteousness yourself.

By the way, ASPD is associated with high dopamine levels. ADD is associated with low dopamine levels.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

> @strangestdude I meant; music, paintings, sculpture, plays, poetry, etc?


Absolutely. I think there's a great level of skill involved in making something unique, visually appealing, etc. I took art in college and I am a musician/vocalist as well. Music does affect me, but not in the same way I believe it does for other people. I analyze music, rather than 'feel' it. Rather than feel a direct response from music, I study others responses. I was also in theatre when I was in high school, because I love acting. I see music and theatre from a third person perspective, if that makes sense.

As for visual art, I have a preference for the literal, more concrete art, like observation drawing. I never really had much appreciation for pop-surrealism and the like because it seemed rather thrown together, random, and uninteresting to me personally.

One artist I admire in particular was Vija Celmins. I posted some of her artwork below. The kind of skill it takes to notice and pinpoint details in the way she does is extraordinary. Her observational drawings are done only in graphite.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

You know, I can agree with you there. It's strange for a person with ASPD to go on national television and talk about how they abducted children. The apath does not seek out attention for their disorder, at least typically, I don't speak for us all. I think at this point her diagnosis has become such a profitable pursuit (runs a blog, wrote a book) that her focus here is profitable gain, not attention or reputation. After all, if she does have ASPD, she doesn't really care. She's either after money (if she does have ASPD) or attention (Narcissism).


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

BrynnCasey said:


> You know, I can agree with you there. It's strange for a person with ASPD to go on national television and talk about how they abducted children.


M.E. was the 2nd guest with the wig as her 'disguise'.



> She's either after money (if she does have ASPD) or attention (Narcissism).


Possibly.


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

This just shows to me personally how incomplete the study of ASPD is. My professor says I have ASPD traits, and would diagnose me, the preface of ME Thomas' book shows that someone diagnosed her with it, then some exclude it to the criminally insane. I personally look into it just because the diagnosis itself seems so ambiguous. I killed a sparrow with a fan when I was ten, does that equate me to a serial killer? Maybe I'm not sociopathic per se, just hyper-rational and somewhat insensitive at times. 

Maybe we need to stop diagnosing everyone with something the second they do anything out of the norm haha.


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## Lucky Luciano (Nov 28, 2013)

Many members of my family are/have been part of drug dealing and organized crime schemes, not sure if sociopathy is running in my family, I am not one but I like skydiving and other scary stuff (If I ever had enough money ).


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## GoosePeelings (Nov 10, 2013)




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## angeleyes (Feb 20, 2013)

strangestdude said:


> So did that study suggest that people with ASPD are prone to depression and anxiety?
> 
> Because from that sentence it seems like it's a study specifically of depressed people with ASPD.


I think it started out as a study of just the patients in that particular program, and then grew from there. It seems (this is my take on it) that the Cluster B and C Personality Disorders are the two receiving the most attention. I guess that anyone with maladaptive coping mechanisms would be likely to also suffer from an Axis One disorder at some point. You do make an excellent point. I realize that this is a complex problem, and I am by no means an expert on the comorbidity of Axis 1 and Axis 2 disorders. I am not a psychologist.


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## ToplessOrange (Jun 3, 2013)

BrynnCasey said:


> Maybe we need to stop diagnosing everyone with something the second they do anything out of the norm haha.


I've been diagnosed with so many things, professionally and otherwise, that it's nearly reflex for me to reject things, now. It often seems far too ambiguous, the idea of diagnosing a personality. The logic behind it is vague with few numbers to support anything. Many doctors just sorta listen to you until you remind them of something they read somewhere or someone they know, and they go "Oh, you must be this." Other doctors fill you with meds until they think you're "normal," and decide that whatever the meds are for is what you have.

I was diagnosed with psychopathy twice, and I really don't know what aspects of me could possibly even come close. It's such a poor science, but people place such a high value on psychometrics. Even the psychometric foundation of this website can irritate me a bit. I wouldn't say that Cognitive Functions and the Enneagram and IQs and such are all worthless, but people have this belief that the aspect that each of those is measuring encompasses and manifests far more than it actually does.

There are far more than four ways to perceive things, even if those definitions are very broad. I've found absolutely no method to the choices of the nine Enneagram types, the logic is simply not there. However, Cognitive Functions and the Enneagram allow me to quickly communicate a certain mode of thought I'm in. "I'm feeling sorta Type 7 and 2 right now, let's go find a hobo and give out some food and stuff." "My Ti is really acting up from that particular contradiction in your story. The one where you said every single fucking thing you just said."

IQs do more harm than damage, I think. I remember being part of a poll at my school. They took those of us with 99 percentile IQs or something, then they took a bunch of other people, and didn't tell us that we were compartmentalized by our intelligence quotients (I didn't even realize that that many people had documented IQs when they finally told us). They polled us on what we thought of IQ tests and, holy Dunning-Kruger! The majority of us thought IQs were worthless while the majority of them thought that IQs really had merit to them!

I understand the point of psychometrics. We can't just evaluate all seven billion people uniquely! We need to generalize patterns so we can sorta make predictions so we can kinda improve society, and there ARE a lot of common traits out there! But the problem is this: People are very biased. They will exploit labels to the max. When I was thought to be an Aspie, I was expected to rebel against the neurotypicals. When I was thought to be a psychopath, I was expected to be sly and cunning around empaths.

Eventually, and I know this sounds very typical, I decided that I would just keep a small circle of friends and always understand that there will always be depths to them I'll never understand or be able to label. That sounds like a typical empath. "Humans are so unique and beautiful, maaaan! You can't just put a number on them! The system's all wrong!" However, I have done much evaluation, this is not merely a choice in thought because of something I felt. This has been arrived at through rational calculation, even if it may be erroneous in such. My friends are unique, and so is everyone. I may still unconsciously simplify the personalities and behaviors of people, but that can't be controlled, alas.

Oh, thanks for shooting that request at me, btdubs. I got an achievement! (And so, there Muffin went, simplifying the existence of Brynn, all her experiences and thoughts, to an ersatz achievement on an ersatz website right after having said to not do that very thing. The end.)


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## BrynnCasey (Nov 28, 2013)

> I've been diagnosed with so many things, professionally and otherwise, that it's nearly reflex for me to reject things, now. It often seems far too ambiguous, the idea of diagnosing a personality. The logic behind it is vague with few numbers to support anything. Many doctors just sorta listen to you until you remind them of something they read somewhere or someone they know, and they go "Oh, you must be this." Other doctors fill you with meds until they think you're "normal," and decide that whatever the meds are for is what you have.


So I'm not crazy. I'm just an egocentric overly literal insensitive little shit! Oh happy day! Take that professor! :laughing:

Your comment on IQ reminds me of the Einstein quote, "if you judge a fish by how well it can climb a tree, it will live its entire life thinking it's stupid." Overused, but true. I heard test anxiety can have a severe affect on how well you complete the IQ test anyway, automatically putting you at a disadvantage if you're prone to such conditions. I always did well on standardized testing because I didn't really get anxious before testing, but my INFJ friend (yes, she was an INFJ and I was an ESTP and we got along, it can happen) had a lot of test anxiety that caused her to score very low when in reality she was far more intelligent than I was. Some people are more gifted with abstract concepts too, rather than simplistic problem-solving.

IT'S THE SYSTEM MAN.

I actually have a lot of respect for MBTI because it's simply based on receiving and processing information, rather than some analysis of how well each type can or should function.

And you're welcome Mr. Oniminous Muffin sir. Welcome aboard the friend ship. We should start an I've Been Called Crazy forum. I'm pretty sure every type here has been assigned some kind of psychological disorder at some point.


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm currently watching this interview with ex mafia hitman Richard Kuklinski who has ASPD and paranoid personality disorder...






It's deeply disturbing to watch, but what I find fascinating is his inability to understand the stimulus of his emotions. During the interview he gets extremely angry with the psychiatrist, but doesn't have awareness of what the stimulus was he just knows he's angry with him. The psychiatrists has to guide him to connect the stimulus of what triggered his rage - "Did you believe I was criticizing you?"

At the end the psychiatrist explains to him his personality is probably a genetic pre-disposition that he probably has inherited from his father, but his extremely abusive upbringing disposed him to become a serial killer.

His responses in the video seem to align with what psychologist in the vid in my post #104 believes; psychopaths have a well below average emotional capacity, coupled with a severe lack of emotional intelligence.


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## Gman1 (Mar 3, 2015)

Depresso said:


> -Lack of fear
> -Charming
> -Highly intelligence
> -Women are attracted to you
> ...


If you read the books ''Without Conscience'' and ''Snakes in Suits'' you'll realise being a psychopath ain't everything it's cracked up to be.
Women aren't always attracted to them. A lot of women admitted to finding them creepy. Take Rodney Alcala for instance, on the dating game. During the actual show, he charmed the pants of the woman contestant, but backstage, she found him really weird and refused to go out with him.

And they're not as good at manipulation as you think. If they're ever challenged in their deceit, they simply change the topic and refuse to accept the other person's opinion. Their method is to 'test the waters' to see how vulnerable or naive a person is, and will simply go for the weakest. 

And they can crack under pressure too. And when they do, it's like a bull charging at you. This pushes people away from them, as they see their true colours.

Intelligence is debatable. If they're smart, they con you. If not, they'll intimidate you.

I highly recommend you watch Brian Cox in the film Manhunter. He plays the original Hannibal Lecktor, and is regarded by psychologists to be an accurate representation of the disorder, unlike Anthony Hopkins' version.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

Depresso said:


> The one thing I admire most is being able to stay calm in tight situations. A trait which I always wanted. Seems like you have to be a psychopath or a sociopath to calm in the face of great dangers.


Actually, some people seem to stay calm in tight situations for a number of other reasons. They don't realize the extent of the danger they are in until later, they're able to suspend their fear in the moment and delay feeling it until later, their idea that something needs to be done might temporarily override the fear. Or, like in the case of police officers and fire-fighters, they may have special knowledge and/or training to help them know how to deal with a situation. Or they could just be really good at hiding how freaked out they actually feel. I don't think you necessarily have to be a psychopath to stay calm in a difficult situation.


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## L'Enfant Terrible (Jun 8, 2014)

Depresso said:


> -Lack of fear
> -Charming
> -Highly intelligence
> -Women are attracted to you
> ...


Fear is here for a reason : to let us efficiently asses danger and protect us from potentially fatal situations. Lack of fear is not bravery, it's recklessness, which leads to stupid acts which leads to problems.

Being charming does not come naturally to psychopaths, it's a learned behaviour in order to not stand out, to manipulate or lure others. If psychos do it you can do it better.

High intelligence is not the rule among psychopaths. IQs varry, however considering how idiotic the commoners are they must all seem really smart.

If you want to attract the kind of women that psychopaths attract then I urge you to seek help.

They do get sad. They do get happy. They do get angry. They do get compassionate even. A psychopath is defined by faulty limbic system,amygdala etc which are parts of the brain that control emotions and empathy. That doesn't mean they don't get emotional or sad ( in terms of mbti think of it as no Fe and high Fi, they sure dwell in their emotions alright). It just means they don't empathize with your emotions. So because they don't feel your pain or care about living creatures they have no problem with torturing,killing,dehumanizing you. However, they can turn it in and off new evidence states.

Good at reading at people? Like reading stories at (to) them? Hah Please rephrase that. If you meant they're good at reading people, no they are not. Where from have you extracted such information?


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## L'Enfant Terrible (Jun 8, 2014)

Depresso said:


> The one thing I admire most is being able to stay calm in tight situations. A trait which I always wanted. Seems like you have to be a psychopath or a sociopath to calm in the face of great dangers.


No. It doesn't seem like that at all. I always remain calm in dangerous situations because I understand the fact that I'm an adult and if I don't think quickly something bad with happen either to me or to others. It's not like panicking did any good ever.


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## mhysa (Nov 27, 2014)

you don't have to have a serious mental disorder to have any of those qualities. you can have them all, even. these conditions probably sound cool to you because you don't have to live with it every day - there are plenty of people who are psychopaths/sociopaths and seriously struggle with different aspects of life that come easily to "normal" people. this thread reminds me of the weepy teenage girls on tumblr who romanticize depression, abuse, addiction, etc because they don't understand the reality of living with those things. it's just silly.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

Was there a 50 Shades of Gray version of psychopathy somewhere?
Seriously was there? The fangirling of OP is hilarious. Fanfic origins hilarious.


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## jumbotoo (Sep 9, 2015)

Anybody who thinks psychopathy is a blessing clearly knows nothing about it.
Women do not automatically find them attractive. They're no more attractive than the average guy or girl. For the record, there have been numerous cases where women found them weird or creepy. Examples in the book "Without Conscience".
They are not good leaders. They do not care for hard work; they pretend to be contributing to the company when in fact they use other people to do it for them.
I have read numerous stories in the book "snakes in suits" where companies cheered after losing their psychopath manager because of how much they disliked them.

Do some actual reading rather than making such naive, idiotic comments.


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## Mirkwood (Jul 16, 2014)

I have read that those sociopaths.. or how to say.. those who have their nature more from the kind of nurture they received and environment, actually can be pretty depressed.


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Pyromaniac said:


> Lack of fear is a curse.
> 
> I have quite a few qualities associated with a psychopath/sociopath, passed some tests on it, and for we minor ones at least I don't believe it makes much of a difference.


Interesting, I do believe that a lack of fear can be a curse.



Depresso said:


> -Lack of fear
> -Charming
> -Highly intelligence
> -Women are attracted to you
> ...


I think they can be sad.


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## Ride (Jun 30, 2016)

Is this one of those: I hate being an INFP because I can't deal with my own feelings and self-hate that I wish I was a psychopath/sociopath?


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## Maybe (Sep 10, 2016)




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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

I'm not so sure either way.


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