# Paleo/Primal?



## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Are there any here who follow the paleo diet? And for those who don't know what this is; no its not a 'lose weight' diet, or a fad diet.. and its not friggin' atkins. Basically theres a theory that human dietary needs haven't changed much since the paleolithic era, and that many people are unhealthy because they eat foods that aren't -real- foods. 

Paleolithic diet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway, I have been reading forums on it, and a lot of people say it helps to balance their blood sugar. 

Anyone here have a paleo dietary lifestyle?


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

> Sussman's research is based on studying the fossil evidence dating back nearly seven million years. "Most theories on Man the Hunter fail to incorporate this key fossil evidence," Sussman says. "We wanted evidence, not just theory. We thoroughly examined literature available on the skulls, bones, footprints and on environmental evidence, both of our hominid ancestors and the predators that coexisted with them." ...
> 
> But what Sussman and Hart discovered is that Australopithecus afarensis was not dentally pre-adapted to eat meat. "It didn't have the sharp shearing blades necessary to retain and cut such foods," Sussman says. "These early humans simply couldn't eat meat. If they couldn't eat meat, why would they hunt?"
> 
> ...


Source


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## silent warrior (Feb 20, 2012)

I have been following the Paleo diet for about 6-7 months and I haven't seen any negative sides of it. I first stumbled upon the Paleo Diet via Mark Sisson's site "Mark's Daily Apple". After I hit a weight loss wall after losing 6lbs I decided to change my diet to try something new and going Paleo worked for me. Basically Paleo is about imitating the diet habits of the early humans before the agricultural times but most people who follow it do eat dairy products so it is not totally a caveman diet. How many carbs you consume depends on you. Some people consume 50 grams a day while others eat 100 grams. Anything above 100 is not recommended though. I stopped eating bread and reduced grain consumption by 90%. I also rarely eat legumes since they raise insulin levels and make me bloated. When I first started out I felt light headed for the first 7-10 days but then I started feeling so energized and I don't feel the need to eat every couple of hours because my blood sugar level is stabilized. Eating moderate amounts of fat keeps you full and satiated. I do have my occasional carb cycling days to confuse my body and get my pizza cravings handled though. 
Overall I definitely recommend it and I suggest adjusting your exercise habits to Paleo style also : lifting weights, staying away from chronic cardio, enjoying outdoors and doing exercises that involve short intense activity with resting periods.


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## sploney (Feb 17, 2010)

I've been eating roughly paleo for almost a year. I've lost just a bit of weight, but lots of other good things have happened. And by paleo, I mean I eat a bit more meat, but lots more veg, less fruit, almost no grains or legumes. I do still eat some dairy, but want to cut back more.
Good things: eczema is gone, dry skin mostly gone, insomnia gone, more strength and energy, less stress/anxiety, chronic digestive problems gone. chronic HUNGER is gone--I can go all day without eating and I love it, I think that's it. Enough to keep me eating this way, certainly!
Oh I forgot, and I don't know how I forgot: my allergies are gone! chronic rhinitis, gone!


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## Devin87 (May 15, 2011)

I've been eating a modified paleo diet since Halloween when I watched Fat Head. I cheat a LOT, but I've still seen a lot of very good results. I'm down about 50 pounds and my skin, which has been horrible since I was 16, is finally clearing up. I've got more energy and I'm very rarely hungry and when I do get hungry it's not the sickening, nauseous hunger I used to get. I'm not like a crazy "go back to the wild" guy, but the genetically modified grains we have today (yes, even whole grains) have not been treating our bodies well and my body seems to be thriving on protein and fat. I think the diet world has gotten it wrong. Ever since they've been telling us to eat less fat and more grains, we've just gotten fatter and fatter and sicker and sicker. I think we need to re-evaluate...


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

I don't follow the Paleo diet because I don't like a lot of those foods, but I know people who do and love it.

*chomps on a piece of bacon*

I do avoid processed grain products. I eat oats and sprouted grain bread sometimes (and on special occasions, "real" bread - my family is Italian, after all). 

Interesting read on grains:
Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple


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## sprinkles (Feb 7, 2010)

I prefer things that require minimal processing and preparation, so hypothetically yes.

I eat some eggs, meat and seafood, yogurt, and risng bread and pasta which are exceptions.


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## sprinkles (Feb 7, 2010)

We also have to be careful when we talk about evolutionary adaptations and things that are natural, and dietary changes, because none of this is well defined.

For example we can't just say that it isn't natural to farm, or to use fire, or to use a knife, because farming and tool usage are adaptations themselves. Corvids, apes, otters and so forth all can use simple tools for food gathering. Vespids such as ants and wasps can farm or exploit other insects, and some ants grow crops. Ants can be tool users as well. Symbiotic interspecies relationships are also very common in sea life where two species cooperate to benefit each other.


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## Skum (Jun 27, 2010)

> A few years back, scientists found that high-fiber foods “bang up against the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract, rupturing their outer covering” which “increases the level of lubricating mucus.” Err, that sounds positively awful. Banging and tearing? Rupturing? These are not the words I like to hear. But wait! The study’s authors say, “It’s a good thing.” *Fantastic! So when all those **sticks and twigs **rub up against my fleshy interior and literally rupture my intestinal lining, I’ve got nothing to worry about. It’s all part of the plan, right?
> *
> 
> Read more: Why Grains Are Unhealthy | Mark's Daily Apple​


Agh. This is so weak. That isn't to say the rest of the article isn't interesting, but damn.

Anyway, my doctor has said that the instance of GI medical issues is clearly positively correlated with wheat (or was it grain?) consumption. I was under the impression it mostly had to do with processing and excess gluten consumption. 

Check this out: http://rawfoodsos.com/
I saw someone else link this in another thread. It may have been one of the posters in this very thread. Anyhow, it deserves to be reposted. She's written on the paleo diet.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

I am kind of heading in this direction with my current eating patterns. I have been thinking about doing the whole9 thing next month( Whole9 | Paleo Nutrition, Nutrition Workshops, Nutrition for Health and Fitness Facilities, and the Original Whole30 Program, Designed to Change Your Life in 30 Days ) which so far I have read falls into this category. Only thing I am really concerned about is going a full month without pizza.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

The most rational criticism of the Paleo diet is simply that Paleolithic humans didn't even live nearly as long as we do.

As soon as that sinks in, you can't really argue that this diet helps anyone live longer.

I'm more interested in health than anything, and honestly when people are saying things such as "my skin is clearing up" it's probably simply because you've cut out bad carbs like refined flour and sugar, cut out trans fat, and are eating less processed foods. 

Any diet that guides you toward whole foods and less of this junk is going to help you lose weight and feel better. It's just one alternative in a group of diets which can promote things like increased energy, better skin, and weight loss.

I think the Mediterranean diet is just as healthy, or more healthy actually since it causes the same weight-loss as low carb while also decreasing risk of cancer heart attack Parkinsons and Alzheimers, and so can very controlled organic vegetarian and vegan diets which contain whole grains. 

I usually don't promote vegan diets, though, because a doctor once told me that a vegan diet is very healthy - but it's also like having a part-time job to do it correctly. 

So I have nothing against it, I just don't think it's the answer like people are making it out to be. There's a great reason why most agricultural civilizations lived on whole grains and survived, hell the life span started increasing. 

However, when you eat grains, you also have to exercise. Movement and fitness is a key component.


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

You should look up Daniel Diet.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

fourtines said:


> The most rational criticism of the Paleo diet is simply that Paleolithic humans didn't even live nearly as long as we do.
> 
> As soon as that sinks in, you can't really argue that this diet helps anyone live longer.
> 
> ...


There's no correlation between grain consumption and life extension. The biggest factor in an extended life came from sanitation.


I've been paleo for about 2 months now. There's a definite shift in my performance. My lifting weight has increased dramatically from what it was like before. Keep in mind I get about 170+ grams of protein though, then again it was always above 140 even when I ate grains but now with less filler there's more meat in my diet. If there was ever a "magic bullet" to performance in diet, then this is it.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

Yeah, I eat paleo.

Foods I avoid:
Dairy, Sugar, Legumes, Grains, Processed food, Anything with a lot of Omega6 fats.

I feel good all the time. I eat lots and never bloat. My skin is tighter, I feel stronger, my teeth are cleaner, my hair is healthier, et cetera.

I used to have *severe gut pain* every day while eating a diet of:

- whole grains (organic oats, oat bran)
- lean meats
- brown rice
- chickpeas, kidney beans
- a variety of vegetables

and I went to the gym for 45 - 60 minutes almost every day (about 6/7 days).
I thought it was just the fact that I ate too much red meat though.
So I stopped eating red meat and the pain continued.
I remember some extreme pain and sickness after eating a bowl of edamame beans before some teriyaki sushi at a japanese place.
Delicious fish... but those legumes.........

Any way,
Since avoiding the above foods (Dairy, Sugar, Legumes, Grains, Processed food, Anything with a lot of Omega6 fats.)
and eating a diet full of monounsaturated, saturated and EPA/DHA polyunsaturated fats, lean protein, animal fat from grass-fed ruminants, bone marrow, bone broth/soup, seasonal vegetables, coconuts and associated products (milk, water, meat), avocados and other fruit maybe once every second day or when I feel like it..... no more gut pain. No more leaping in pain from a simple fart (you heard me.)

I've already set up some suppliers for myself in terms of organic grass-fed meat and veg. I get them in bulk now. Cheap cheap! 

I'm not going back.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

android654 said:


> There's no correlation between grain consumption and life extension. The biggest factor in an extended life came from sanitation.
> 
> 
> I've been paleo for about 2 months now. There's a definite shift in my performance. My lifting weight has increased dramatically from what it was like before. Keep in mind I get about 170+ grams of protein though, then again it was always above 140 even when I ate grains but now with less filler there's more meat in my diet. If there was ever a "magic bullet" to performance in diet, then this is it.


Sounds expensive. However, I know that doing this diet can be a great alternative for certain people, maybe with certain body types or health issues like @_Cetanu_.

That's why I don't see it as "bad" especially since it includes fruit and vegetables, so you aren't cutting out carbs completely. I still don't consider it to be a balanced diet, and potentially too high in saturated fat. Still, it's better than Atkins and better than eating processed foods, refined white flour and sugar. 

I would never stop eating beans and legumes, I didn't even when I did a lower carb diet in the past, I absolutely will not, and I would think it could even potentially lead to intestinal blockages or constipation to have zero grains and zero legumes; although you have vegetables you're consuming an awful lot of meat. 

It's not for me, I'm not sure what the actual long-term risks are with this diet, and I know there are other effective diets which are very healthy that are balanced. 




However, I think something along the lines of the Mediterranean or Sonoma diet is better for me.

Actually, even Sonoma is too strict and structured, but I'd choose the Sonoma diet as a short-term plan if I needed to lose weight instead of Atkins or Paleo.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

fourtines said:


> Sounds expensive. However, I know that doing this diet can be a great alternative for certain people, maybe with certain body types or health issues like @_Cetanu_.
> 
> That's why I don't see it as "bad" especially since it includes fruit and vegetables, so you aren't cutting out carbs completely. I still don't consider it to be a balanced diet, and potentially too high in saturated fat. Still, it's better than Atkins and better than eating processed foods, refined white flour and sugar.
> 
> ...


Atkins was clearly a shortcut for severely overweight people looking for an easily adaptable alternative that was slightly healthier than they were eating. With the exception of supplements, egg whites and nuts, nothing I consume comes packaged. 

Well there are things to consider. I don't just consume any kind of meat. I only consume fish, shellfish, chicken and turkey. Any kind of red meat --me purchasing red meat is a rarity that happens a handful of times a year-- has to be bought at a butcher shop so I can see the fat content in the beef when it's being cut as opposed to buying it packaged and being surprised. 

It's quite the opposite, it's a lot cheaper than eating a normal diet. Sticking to just meat, vegetables, fruit and the occasional root (yam, sweet potato) is actually cheaper than replacing some of those things with dairy and grains. With the different content of food, I'm typically overfed at about 1600 cal. when I was consuming more than 2200 with grains and a slightly lower protein intake.Now that I'm entering a cutting phase, it might rise a bit since I'll be taking in closer to 200 grams rather than my 170. Even if it were more expensive, you can't put a price on the benefits of it.

I actually did ask my physician, since my last check-up was when I first started reading about it. He swears by it. Since he's an athlete too, he basically said it's the best thing I could do for my performance. Have a look at the nutrition content of legumes, dairy and grains and compare them to leafy vegetables, hard greens and any berries and the latter will always win. I was vegan for ab out a whole year, mostly grains, beans and vegetables and I can not begin to tell you the 180 my body did when I compare then and now. Anyone who's an athlete needs to have a serious look at a paleolithic diet.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

@_android654_
One thing that you should really take care of is the fact that your body cannot metabolize more than a certain amount of protein over a certain period of time.
I can't remember the magic number but I know that the more calories you eat, the less the percentage of protein you should be eating. It becomes poisonous at a certain amount... like anything!
At 2200 or 1600, whatever you're doing... 200 grams is to 27-50%. I wouldn't do more than 35% at the absolute maximum.
The liver will say no, it will turn into glucose, your blood sugar will rise, insulin will be released and you will have inflammation issues resulting in fat gain and sickness.

@_fourtines_
I don't really have anything against legumes per se. I know that Tim Ferris is an advocator of Paleo but he still eats Lentils and other beans but he goes to the effort of soaking them for 24 hours beforehand...
To that, I just cbf. I'm all for simplicity.
I've probably had the Mediterranean diet my whole life. Greek family ftw.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

android654 said:


> Atkins was clearly a shortcut for severely overweight people looking for an easily adaptable alternative that was slightly healthier than they were eating. With the exception of supplements, egg whites and nuts, nothing I consume comes packaged.
> 
> Well there are things to consider. I don't just consume any kind of meat. I only consume fish, shellfish, chicken and turkey. Any kind of red meat --me purchasing red meat is a rarity that happens a handful of times a year-- has to be bought at a butcher shop so I can see the fat content in the beef when it's being cut as opposed to buying it packaged and being surprised.
> 
> ...


Meat is not less expensive than living off beans and whole grains and eggs if necessary, so I'm still going to have to disagree. I can't see how a largely meat based diet is cheaper than a vegetarian diet which contains little to no processed foods. Processed foods of course are more expensive, as are frozen meals. 

I also don't think it's fair to compare being vegan to paleo, because it's almost like going from one extreme to another. Some people are malnourished with vegan diets. 

I am very happy that it is working for you, though, and I have read things about athletes doing the paleo diet, but not so much for people like distance marathon runners who still need more carbs.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

fourtines said:


> Meat is not less expensive than living off beans and whole grains and eggs if necessary, so I'm still going to have to disagree. I can't see how a largely meat based diet is cheaper than a vegetarian diet which contains little to no processed foods. Processed foods of course are more expensive, as are frozen meals.
> 
> I also don't think it's fair to compare being vegan to paleo, because it's almost like going from one extreme to another. Some people are malnourished with vegan diets.
> 
> I am very happy that it is working for you, though, and I have read things about athletes doing the paleo diet, but not so much for people like distance marathon runners who still need more carbs.




Well if you're training for endurance you can either have a cup of wheat pasta or about 4-5 cups of broccoli to equal the same caloric content. I've never trained for something like Iron-Man or a marathon so I'm not sure the toll endurance competitions take on the body. I however will say my muscular definition has increased with the increase of vegetables and the elimination of monosaccharides like bread and rice.

Skin has gotten better too, which was a surprise. A lot of the boxers I know have bad skin. Come to think of it, all of the athletes I know suffer from acne, but My face is practically clear now that I've eliminated all of those things from my diet.



Cetanu said:


> @_android654_
> One thing that you should really take care of is the fact that your body cannot metabolize more than a certain amount of protein over a certain period of time.
> I can't remember the magic number but I know that the more calories you eat, the less the percentage of protein you should be eating. It becomes poisonous at a certain amount... like anything!
> At 2200 or 1600, whatever you're doing... 200 grams is to 27-50%. I wouldn't do more than 35% at the absolute maximum.
> ...



The magic number is 24-30 grams an hour. I'm pulling about 10 hours of training a week and my diet allows for 5-6 meals on training days. So I rarely go over 30 in any given meal time. I have noticed a difference, but I can't say if it's paleo or this past year of training. For example, my biceps have gone from 17.5" in January and are now just slightly over 18". Could be from the paleo diet making me more receptive, but I don't think it's the protein intake. I've only increased 30 grams in the past 8 weeks and that's from adding in a second meal after my night training.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

Fair enough, well, you know your body better than anyone; especially myself.
I just hope you are getting enough fat and carbohydrates also. I am a big advocator of high fat.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Cetanu said:


> Fair enough, well, you know your body better than anyone; especially myself.
> I just hope you are getting enough fat and carbohydrates also. I am a big advocator of high fat.


Olive oil, coconut oil and about 5 serving of vegetables a day. I'm very weary of how much oil I use for cooking and afraid of going over and killing what ever phase I'm working on during that period. Only one or two are leafy the rest are harder vegetables like broccoli, carrots, etc. I've been going by Loren Cordain md. and Robb Wolf's studies on fat content, so I've been going by that so far. Not sure if it's having a good effect on me, the fat I mean.


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## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

I've been trying parts of it and I like the things I've noticed.

Some fat loss (and weight)

Energy levels are consistent throughout the day (like this the most)

Skin seems better, teeth seem better.


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

I tried paleo before. Absolutely awful. I've never been sicker and messed up.

Meat is horrible for me. I just was never able to digest it well. Same with dairy. 

I can eat a moderate amount of fish though.

Also, I can't survive without white rice... I need lots of carbs.


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