# IEI and SLE: Do you people really get along?



## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Everybody who's into socionics knows about a so-called duality. When it comes to IEI-SLE we have two polar opposites: non-materialistic, dreamy and abstract thinking IEI and materialistic, down-to-earth and practical SLE. As for myself, my experience with my duals, especially people of my gender, is almost exclusively bad: nothing in common, except a mutual lack of sympathy towards each other. I'd always prefer a company of a fellow *NF* type than one of my supposed dual.

So I wanted to ask: do you guys really get along? What's your experience with the topic? Maybe you need to be a certain subtype (Like IEI-Fe and SLE-Se) to communicate better with each other?


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Terry_McMillan said:


> Everybody who's into socionics knows about a so-called duality. When it comes to IEI-SLE we have two polar opposites: non-materialistic, dreamy and abstract thinking IEI and materialistic, down-to-earth and practical SLE. As for myself, my experience with my duals, especially people of my gender, is almost exclusively bad: nothing in common, except a mutual lack of sympathy towards each other. I'd always prefer a company of a fellow *NF* type than one of my supposed dual.
> 
> So I wanted to ask: do you guys really get along? What's your experience with the topic? Maybe you need to be a certain subtype (Like IEI-Fe and SLE-Se) to communicate better with each other?


If your experiences with your duals is bad, then I'm guessing you have either typed those people wrongly or typed yourself wrongly? 

I personally love SLEs very much. <3

I'm an IEI-Fe, and my best friend is an SLE-Ti. We get along so well that we never fight at all. Of course there are times when we will get into some mini disagreements, but those tend to be resolved quickly, as we tend to communicate very well with each other. My SLE best friend can be bossy at times and often wants their own way about everything, but I'm easygoing and laidback, so we tend to complement each other perfectly. 

We also like spending lots of time around each other. It's like, no matter how much time we spent together, we can never get enough of each other and we always want to spend more time around each other. 

My SLE best friend often turned into a mush around me. You wouldn't believe it all, but behind their hard exterior actually hid a very soft interior. They are such kind and caring and sensitive people.


Tips on how to get along with SLEs: You mustn't be aggressive with them, ever. You have to show them your soft and gentle side at all times. Being aggressive toward them will only cause them to become 10 times more aggressive toward you, since they are really good at holding grudges, lol. If you see an SLE in their aggressive mode and you want to calm them down, you have to be very soft and gentle toward them. Apologise to them, ask them for forgiveness, etc.


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Schizoid said:


> If your experiences with your duals is bad, then I'm guessing you have either typed those people wrongly or typed yourself wrongly?


I often read that this might be the case, but I'm pretty sure about these typings.



Schizoid said:


> I personally love SLEs very much. <3


Well, I'm glad that somebody has a better experience with them than me :happy:



Schizoid said:


> I'm an IEI-Fe, and my best friend is an SLE-Ti


Have you ever met any SLE-Se? Is there a big difference between the two subtypes?



Schizoid said:


> My SLE best friend often turned into a mush around me. You wouldn't believe it all, but behind their hard exterior actually hid a very soft interior. They are such kind and caring and sensitive people.
> 
> 
> Tips on how to get along with SLEs: You mustn't be aggressive with them, ever. You have to show them your soft and gentle side at all times.


Well, maybe SLEs are going along better with our Fe-subtype? I'm not agressive at all and can't stand agressive people myself. 

I also read that SLEs do not percieve their - as I see it - rudeness as rudeness. Maybe problem between me and them is just a matter of perception?


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Terry_McMillan said:


> I often read that this might be the case, but I'm pretty sure about these typings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have met Se subtypes, but we tend to pass each other by. Like at my workplace, there is this SLE-Se coworker of mine, we get along well but I don't really talk to her much, but I have another coworker of mine who is an IEI-Ni, both of them clicked so well that they are friends outside the workplace too. 

I tend to click better with the Ti subtypes of SLE than the Se subtypes. I find the Ti subtypes of SLEs more intellectual than the Se subtypes hence I have more common topics with them to talk about. The Se subtypes are a bit too sensory for my liking, I love having deep conversations but I have difficulty going into a deep conversation with the Se subtypes. The Ti subtypes are different in this sense, they are able to keep up with me when it comes to deep conversations. SLE-Ti are like the best of both worlds, they are able to encourage me to try out new stuff and bring me go on new adventures all the time, and at the same time, they are also able to have a deep conversation with me. 

I'm not sure if I would perceive SLEs as "rude" though. Blunt maybe, but not rude though.
My SLE best friend has actually told me before that if they ever accidentally said anything offensive to me I should let them know immediately so that they could tone down their bluntness. xD


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Schizoid said:


> I tend to click better with the Ti subtypes of SLE than the Se subtypes. I find the Ti subtypes of SLEs more intellectual than the Se subtypes hence I have more common topics with them to talk about. The Se subtypes are a bit too sensory for my liking, I love having deep conversations but I have difficulty going into a deep conversation with the Se subtypes. The Ti subtypes are different in this sense, they are able to keep up with me when it comes to deep conversations.


I see. I agree about "deep conversations" and "too sensory" parts. Maybe all SLEs I've met were Se subtypes 



Schizoid said:


> Blunt maybe, but not rude though.


You're right. That's what I was meant to say. As for the bluntness, how do you handle this? Because I definitely have hypersensitivity issues about this :frustrating:


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Terry_McMillan said:


> I see. I agree about "deep conversations" and "too sensory" parts. Maybe all SLEs I've met were Se subtypes
> 
> 
> 
> You're right. That's what I was meant to say. As for the bluntness, how do you handle this? Because I definitely have hypersensitivity issues about this :frustrating:



SLE's bluntness usually doesn't come across as blunt to me. I don't have any issues with Se bluntness, but it's Te bluntness that I have difficulty coping with.

Examples of Te bluntness: 
"Why are you always so slow?"
"Hearing you talk makes me feel like falling asleep."
"Why can't you be more proactive?"
"You don't seem to know how to do anything."


To me, Te bluntness tends to come across as condescending and rude. Btw, the person who spoke those above sentences to me is an ESI, and I'm pretty sure it's their Te that rubbed me the wrong way, since they are a Te-valuing type and I have Te PoLR. 

My SLE best friend doesn't pull those crap on me. Se bluntness is different from Te bluntness. My SLE best friend is blunt in the sense that they can come across a bit too headstrong at times and pushy about their opinions on things and often want me to do things their way and want me to listen to everything they say, but they are never rude or condescending to me though, just a bit bossy at times. Se bluntness is of a different variety as compared to Te bluntness.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Schizoid said:


> Tips on how to get along with SLEs: You mustn't be aggressive with them, ever. You have to show them your soft and gentle side at all times. Being aggressive toward them will only cause them to become 10 times more aggressive toward you, since they are really good at holding grudges, lol. If you see an SLE in their aggressive mode and you want to calm them down, you have to be very soft and gentle toward them. Apologise to them, ask them for forgiveness, etc.


Tbh that just sounds like a (potentially) very dangerous situation to put yourself in.


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Schizoid said:


> To me, Te bluntness tends to come across as condescending and rude.


I can relate. That's why we aren't supposed to like guys like LSEs :frustrating: Sorry, LSEs, but it is what it is: default conflict relations. 

As for me, I don't like either of the blunt behaviours. Did you ever met any IEIs that aren't too keen of their duals or is it an anomaly in your opinion?


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

DOGSOUP said:


> Tbh that just sounds like a (potentially) very dangerous situation to put yourself in.


But apologising to them is less dangerous in the long-term as compared to fighting with them or walking away without saying anything, as this would help simmer down some of their anger hence making them less prone to seeking revenge.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Terry_McMillan said:


> I can relate. That's why we aren't supposed to like guys like LSEs :frustrating: Sorry, LSEs, but it is what it is: default conflict relations.
> 
> As for me, I don't like either of the blunt behaviours. Did you ever met any IEIs that aren't too keen of their duals or is it an anomaly in your opinion?


Lol I don't like LSEs either. The ones I know tend to nitpick on me all the time. Hmm and I haven't known any IEIs who clashed with their duals, the ones I met seemed to get along really well with their duals. Or maybe enneagram might play a part in here too?


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Schizoid said:


> Hmm and I haven't known any IEIs who clashed with their duals, the ones I met seemed to get along really well with their duals. Or maybe enneagram might play a part in here too?


I'm an anomaly then :laughing: It might, actually. I tend not to get along with 8w7. All SLEs that we clashed with had a very 8-ish vibe. Maybe 873 or 874 tritype. Do your SLEs remind you of enneagram 8?


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Schizoid said:


> But apologising to them is less dangerous in the long-term as compared to fighting with them or walking away without saying anything, as this would help simmer down some of their anger hence making them less prone to seeking revenge.


Sounds like being threatened into docile behaviour.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Terry_McMillan said:


> I'm an anomaly then :laughing: It might, actually. I tend not to get along with 8w7. All SLEs that we clashed with had a very 8-ish vibe. Maybe 873 or 874 tritype. Do your SLEs remind you of enneagram 8?


That's interesting. 

My SLE best friend is an enneagram 5. But the one at my workplace, I can see either enneagram 1 or 8 for her type, I think she probably has both these in her tri-type.
I can see why it's difficult to get along with enneagram 8s though, since enneagram 8s can be quite confrontational at times.




DOGSOUP said:


> Sounds like being threatened into docile behaviour.


Haha I wouldn't say it's being threatened into docile behavior, since I don't fear SLEs, but more like it's important to
develop strategies when dealing with people and situations. 

If you see a dog chasing after you and you want it to stop chasing after you, you don't just run away from it, because this will only agitate them further and result in them chasing after you even more. But instead, you devise and implement a strategy in this situation, you slow down your steps and then you turn around and face the dog without looking directly into their eyes to let the dog know that you aren't a threat to them, and when the dog senses that you aren't a threat or some suspicious figures, they will start to back off with their aggressiveness and stop chasing after you. Or another method would be to throw some dog treats on their pathway so that their attention will end up getting distracted and they will start focusing their attention on those dog treats and stop chasing after you. This is survival techniques.


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## Daiz (Jan 4, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> Sounds like being threatened into docile behaviour.


I also feel inclined to say this sounds like a toxic relationship BUT I am in a relationship with an SLE and it's the other way round: I am the one with the explosive temper and he is the one who responds with quietness. I asked him if he does that out of fear and he said no, he's never been afraid of me.

Some people just get really mad and the best way of shutting that down quickly is responding calmly. I can't speak for others but people who respond with poised composure always make me ashamed of my own lack of control. I usually come back 5 minutes later and apologise to them.

Apologising just to calm someone down is BS though. Apologies should only happen if one is actually in the wrong.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Daiz said:


> Apologising just to calm someone down is BS though. Apologies should only happen if one is actually in the wrong.


But what if those apologies are able to save the relationship? I don't think apologies should only happen if one is actually in the wrong. Imo, apologies should happen when you cherish someone in your life. 

Just saying this because I lost someone important from my life a few years ago because I was too stubborn to apologise to them and they are also too stubborn to apologise to me. It takes two hands to clap. If only both parties made the effort to apologize, or at least one party made the effort to apologise, we wouldn't end up leaving each others lives.


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## Daiz (Jan 4, 2017)

Schizoid said:


> But what if those apologies are able to save the relationship? I don't think apologies should only happen if one is actually in the wrong. Imo, apologies should happen when you cherish someone in your life.
> 
> Just saying this because I lost someone important from my life a few years ago because I was too stubborn to apologise to them and they are also too stubborn to apologise to me. It takes two hands to clap. If only both parties made the effort to apologize, or at least one party made the effort to apologise, we wouldn't end up leaving each others lives.


If the relationship is dependent on one innocent party being made to accept guilt and prostrate themselves before the actual wrongdoer, it should be severed imo. Even if both parties are guilty of repeatedly wronging each other, if only one is constantly taking the initiative to apologise first, that is a toxic dynamic. This is the situation I thought you were describing.

Your actual situation is different: both parties were wrong. Maybe you should have apologised - but then I would expect your friend to apologise back. And if they didn't, I personally would allow that relationship to dissolve. I just wouldn't want to be around them anymore.

I'm sorry you lost a friend, though. That really sucks.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Schizoid said:


> Haha I wouldn't say it's being threatened into docile behavior, since I don't fear SLEs, but more like it's important to
> develop strategies when dealing with people and situations.
> 
> If you see a dog chasing after you and you want it to stop chasing after you, you don't just run away from it, because this will only agitate them further and result in them chasing after you even more. But instead, you devise and implement a strategy in this situation, you slow down your steps and then you turn around and face the dog without looking directly into their eyes to let the dog know that you aren't a threat to them, and when the dog senses that you aren't a threat or some suspicious figures, they will start to back off with their aggressiveness and stop chasing after you. Or another method would be to throw some dog treats on their pathway so that their attention will end up getting distracted and they will start focusing their attention on those dog treats and stop chasing after you. This is survival techniques.


It sounds slightly conserning that you have just compared a relationship to being attacked by an aggressive dog.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

I actually wasn't comparing the two (I wrote it in two different paragraphs, if I'm comparing two things I'll usually write it in the same paragraph) and I only mentioned about the being attacked by the aggressive dog thing because I was trying to illustrate the importance of developing strategies when dealing with situations, but it seems like you've missed my main point here. Nvm.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

Terry_McMillan said:


> I often read that this might be the case, but I'm pretty sure about these typings.


You note that your approach doesn't fit the theory at all. So why are you so adamant that you're correctly typing them? Shouldn't that be an immediate red flag that you might be misinterpreting things?

Especially when you imply that you're typing 8s as SLEs:


Terry_McMillan said:


> Do your SLEs remind you of enneagram 8?


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Schizoid said:


> My SLE best friend is an enneagram 5. But the one at my workplace, I can see either enneagram 1 or 8 for her type, I think she probably has both these in her tri-type.
> I can see why it's difficult to get along with enneagram 8s though, since enneagram 8s can be quite confrontational at times.


I see. 5-ish SLE sounds like Indiana Jones: a shy professor by day and an adventurer in his spare time  

Yeah. Me and 8s really like to not like each other. Especially when you combine 8 with 7.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Dual? Second from the best.


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Apple Pine said:


> Dual? Second from the best.


Judging by your signature, you must be ILI (NiTe) in socionics. So your dual is SEE?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Terry_McMillan said:


> Judging by your signature, you must be ILI (NiTe) in socionics. So your dual is SEE?


yeah


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Apple Pine said:


> yeah


Do you know any example of IEI-SLE relationship of any kind?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Terry_McMillan said:


> Do you know any example of IEI-SLE relationship of any kind?


Yeah. One of my friends is ESTP, and is with INFJ. They can work, but there are few better types for both.


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

Terry_McMillan said:


> Assertiveness is used to achieve one's goals - I don't see anything wrong with it. Agressiveness is directed to a person and is accompanied by certain negative emotions and/or by a huge ego.


Assertiveness is needed to hold your ground and aggressiveness is needed to take your ground. Assertiveness requires more ego than aggressiveness because it requires self-confidence (which is ego-driven). Timid people, or those unsure of themselves, can be aggressive (rather than assertive), usually in reaction to outside forces. 

Just trying to understand you, cause I'm getting more Se-vulnerable than Se-suggestive vibes from you.



Terry_McMillan said:


> I see. But rudeness can be different too. I believe that ILEs' rudeness might be in telling the absolute truth whether it could be hurting some people, even their friends. But being rude is still being rude, though.


Honesty is offensive to most and it took me ages to learn that. Today, I'm only friends with people who aren't offended by honesty. I could tell you the dictionary definition of "rude," but I always have trouble with the boundaries. Sure, I know not to make death jokes at a funeral, but I'm not always sure of what is and is not appropriate. 

The biggest difference between myself and my ILE friend is that I apologize when I'm told that I've gone too far, while he tends to respond with lines like "that's your opinion" or "why do you get to choose what is 'too far?'" I chalk this down to maturity/experience more than sociotype.


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Apple Pine said:


> They can work, but there are few better types for both.


Could you name such types for IEIs?


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Bastard said:


> Assertiveness is needed to hold your ground and aggressiveness is needed to take your ground. Assertiveness requires more ego than aggressiveness because it requires self-confidence (which is ego-driven). Timid people, or those unsure of themselves, can be aggressive (rather than assertive), usually in reaction to outside forces.


I see. Still do not see a problem with assertiveness though.



Bastard said:


> I'm getting more Se-vulnerable than Se-suggestive vibes from you.


Actually, me too :wink: That's one of the reasons I thought that I'm a LII. But now I'm sure that I have Ni as a base function.




Bastard said:


> Honesty is offensive to most and it took me ages to learn that.


Sometimes, if you sugarcoat it right, it wouldn't be so offensive :wink: I also know that SLEs probably aren't into wraping the truth in layers though. 



Bastard said:


> I could tell you the dictionary definition of "rude," but I always have trouble with the boundaries.


Being an IEI, I could tell you that the boundaries can be a blurry thing sometimes even for me. We all can unintentionally hurt someone's feelings sometimes.



Bastard said:


> I chalk this down to maturity/experience more than sociotype.


You're probably right. If we go to MBTI from here, than his Fe is still weak.


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

Terry_McMillan said:


> Everybody who's into socionics knows about a so-called duality. When it comes to IEI-SLE we have two polar opposites: non-materialistic, dreamy and abstract thinking IEI and materialistic, down-to-earth and practical SLE. As for myself, my experience with my duals, especially people of my gender, is almost exclusively bad: nothing in common, except a mutual lack of sympathy towards each other. I'd always prefer a company of a fellow *NF* type than one of my supposed dual.
> 
> So I wanted to ask: do you guys really get along? What's your experience with the topic? Maybe you need to be a certain subtype (Like IEI-Fe and SLE-Se) to communicate better with each other?


Your avatar looks amazingly LSI, so perhaps you got the wrong Beta introvert typing. That would explain the lack of sympathy you feel with your supposed duals. Relations between two Beta Sts usually lack in emotion and warmth.

As for stories of IEI-SLE duality here is one:
*My duality: ESTp & INFp (SLE-IEI)* and a *few others*.


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

Sylas said:


> Your avatar looks amazingly LSI, so perhaps you got the wrong Beta introvert typing.


I didn't know Star Wars was particularly Beta tbh.


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Sylas said:


> Your avatar looks amazingly LSI, so perhaps you got the wrong Beta introvert typing. That would explain the lack of sympathy you feel with your supposed duals. Relations between two Beta Sts usually lack in emotion and warmth.


That's an interesting observation about the avatar, but I'm sure I can't be one of the Sensing types. And what's so LSI about Thexan leading the army of Zakuul Knights?))



> As for stories of IEI-SLE duality here is one:
> *My duality: ESTp & INFp (SLE-IEI)* and a *few others*.


Thank you :happy: I'll look into it.


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Bastard said:


> I didn't know Star Wars was particularly Beta tbh.


We have the best things, including Star Wars :tongue:


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

Terry_McMillan said:


> We have the best things, including Star Wars :tongue:


Nah. Escapism on a whole is anti-Beta. Where's the link to the real world, or the biased social commentary? :laughing:


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Bastard said:


> Nah. Escapism on a whole is anti-Beta. Where's the link to the real world, or the biased social commentary? :laughing:


LOL

Ah, come on! You forgot about your neighbours - *NF* types - and we like daydreaming and such things. And we're not going anywhere roud:


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

Terry_McMillan said:


> *NF* types


That's the biased social commentary part.


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## Terry_McMillan (Jan 23, 2018)

Bastard said:


> That's the biased social commentary part.


:laughing:


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Bastard said:


> That's the biased social commentary part.


I always read plenty into it, Star Wars is pretty wild politically after all. Betas are typically the villains though, from what I've seen.


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