# INTP female and ENFP male (couple's argument)



## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

Me and my bf are pretty ok but when we get into argument, the usual cause is his egoistic personality. I don't know if it's all related to being an ENFP but he tends to act so defensive sometimes. This makes me hesitate to express my feelings. Because when I address something that he did that offended me, even if it was said in a calm manner, instead of saying sorry... he becomes defensive and gets mad at me instead. I don't get why he overreacts when I simply just told him my concern without accusing or judging. He said we should be open to each other. But when I do speak up, he perceives it so negatively saying that all I see from him are bad things. And because of that, I get mad at him too. Then this war goes on for about three days. We continue the argument through chat. Me, trying to prove my point why I should be the one to get offended and why he should not react so defensively because I'm not accusing him or anything... and him, keeping stubborn and touchy, saying that I should've not said it in the first place, and why does I think that he is the meanest person in the whole world. So I have to remind that it's not about him, that I just said my concern.

What irks me so much is that all I want to hear from him is his sorry but in those times I have to explain everything logically so that I could force him to understand my point and make him say it. But then even if he gets trapped in our argument, he stays stubborn.

So in the end, I ignore him for a while then that's the time he would say sorry. 

But see, when I'm the one who offended him, I immediately say sorry and woe him. So we reconcile quickly. 

But when he's the one who did it, it takes several days before we become ok again. And he blames it on me why our fight stays that long. He says that he easily forgives me so why don't I forgive him too. But heck! How can I forgive him if he didn't even say sorry first. And sometimes when he does apologize, he gives the impression that he's forced to do it, obviously not sincere. Never in our entire argument that he voluntarily admitted his mistake even if it was so obvious. We always go into this war phase first before he finally surrenders and apologize to me. If only he accepts his wrong doing without putting up a fight. sigh*

And now we're in that phase again. I admit that I also have my pride to blame. I could've not wait for him to apologize, I could've just say forget it coz the argument's nonsense anyway. But I don't want to spoil him by giving in even if it was entirely his fault. For once, I want him to apologize. I want us to have a decent talk about our feelings without him getting wild and upset. sigh*


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Do you with regularity give him verbal encouragement and make uplifting remarks?


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I do. I tell him that I really admire his extrovertness. That he easily goes along well with people. That everybody loves him. That he is good looking... those stuffs. And seriously I sometimes think that I don't need to say those things because he perfectly knows that he is a people magnet. Even if i don't say it, he tells it to me anyway, not in a conceited manner though, more on when he's joking. But see, he is aware about his asset.


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

somebody pls tell me... how can I stay open to him without triggering his temper? If this is an ENFP thing... what;s your suggestion? Are ENFP's really prone to this?


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## downsowf (Sep 12, 2011)

Generally, I say I'm sorry even if I'm not wrong or didn't do anything. For me, this is the most logical thing to do so I don't have to argue anymore and this person won't stay mad. Better to swallow your pride. 

There could be a couple of factors with your boyfriend of why he won't apologize:

1. You're overly critical of him. He probably knows that he's wrong, but for you to harp on it and continuously make an argument about his "wrongness" makes him seethe and think twice about wanting to apologize.

2. By analyzing the argument in the way you do, you probably come off extremely cold and detached from the personal aspect. I have this problem, too. Instead of reaching a level of understanding, this kind of behavior will naturally exacerbate the tension. 

3. Give him the time he needs to swallow his pride/ego and apologize to you. You probably don't like this, but like you said, he ends up apologizing and I think this is pretty noble. 

4. Tell him exactly what you posted in this thread. It probably would've been more beneficial to ask HIM these questions as opposed to complete strangers. Sit down with him, have a lunch, explain your feelings, then have amazing make up sex.


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## StaggerLee (Jan 8, 2012)

I don't think all ENFPs are like this, I'm not, but if I think I'm right.... Then I won't apologize, doesn't matter what.

Try this:
Look him in the eyes, let him see how sad you are, tell him "Babe, I'm really hurt, I just want you to say you're sorry, could you do that for me?". Maybe he'll say without meaning it, and if he does, just accept it, hug him and say thank you. It will be alright.

Just try to be gentle to him whenever you're explaining logically what he done wrong.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

downsowf has some good ideas to explore.

I wish I knew more what to say, I've had issues with EFP guys in general, whether it's my son or adult males. If the Fi is strong, it can cause issues in interpersonal conflicts. With IFPs, typically Fi is in charge but it's a rational process that uses Se/Ne to collect info, and so it's willing to update itself; what I find with EFPs is that there's a tendency to choose among possibilities in situations that mesh most with the Fi... so if there are multiple interpretations of an event, a stressed EFP will pick the interpretation that best suits the self rather than evaluate them for what is most probably true. That kind of thing really frustrates me after while, and the situation is much as you have described it, where it's not 'fair' to you but you have little choice but to wait for him and meanwhile try to patch things up from your end, even if you feel that most of it is him.

I would also say to learn how to label things properly... your problems vs his. That way, if he wigs out, you might find it easier to deal with his anger (and let him vent and work through it) without blaming yourself, if you realize that it's coming from him rather than generated by you. You can only really fix/work on yourself.

But I can say that these types of conflicts are not abnormal, if that is helpful to you. It's part of learning how to interact in a LTR with someone who is more divorced from your natural type -- the EF vs IT approaches can be very different and result in conflicts like this. If you both really want to work at it, you can, and eventually I think you can learn how to deal with each other.


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## StaggerLee (Jan 8, 2012)

@Jennywocky
[two posts with avatar from Sandman in a row, that's cool. ]


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## downsowf (Sep 12, 2011)

Another thing worth mentioning too: why is it so important for you to hear "I'm sorry." Perhaps he's sorry and expressing this through actions or being extra nice to you? Is it really a "sorry" you want or will some showing of remorse work for you, too? Because if a "sorry" is empty and insincere, why would this be something you would seek?


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

Sounds like an Fe vs. Fi thing to me. Fi I don't fully understand, and I barely understand my own Fe. Your Fe could explain why you're wanting to hear "I'm sorry," since you're looking to get a certain emotional reaction from him. His Fi is more about living up to his internal values. So, when you accuse him of wrong-doing, he takes it personal, because you're accusing him of not living up to his own values. Plus, there's probably an element of using Te to justify his actions. 

It might help if you provide constructive criticism rather than accusations - assume that his heart was in the right place, but he simply was in error about the facts, maybe? 

Fi is about applying inner values on a case-by-case basis. By contrast, our actions are more guided by our Ti principles - roughly, we have an internal set of principles that we try to apply across all cases. I'm guessing that one reason you want him to apologize is that apologizing means re-affirming a commitment to follow certain principles. So... maybe this approach? 1) Assume that his heart is in the right place. 2) Figure out where he was in error about the facts. 3) Explain to him what you would like him to do in cases like this in the future - his Te might respond to that more, once you've reassured his Fi. 4) And, to satisfy your Fe, get him to promise to do that in the future?


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## quadrivium (Nov 6, 2011)

wingcharm said:


> Me and my bf are pretty ok but when we get into argument, the usual cause is his egoistic personality. I don't know if it's all related to being an ENFP but he tends to act so defensive sometimes. This makes me hesitate to express my feelings. Because when I address something that he did that offended me, even if it was said in a calm manner, instead of saying sorry... he becomes defensive and gets mad at me instead. I don't get why he overreacts when I simply just told him my concern without accusing or judging. He said we should be open to each other. But when I do speak up, he perceives it so negatively saying that all I see from him are bad things. And because of that, I get mad at him too. Then this war goes on for about three days. We continue the argument through chat. Me, trying to prove my point why I should be the one to get offended and why he should not react so defensively because I'm not accusing him or anything... and him, keeping stubborn and touchy, saying that I should've not said it in the first place, and why does I think that he is the meanest person in the whole world. So I have to remind that it's not about him, that I just said my concern.
> 
> What irks me so much is that all I want to hear from him is his sorry but in those times I have to explain everything logically so that I could force him to understand my point and make him say it. But then even if he gets trapped in our argument, he stays stubborn.
> 
> ...


I'd recommend consulting the ENFP forum. They are always willing to help and hear you out. ENFPs, in my experience (been with one for 4 years now, known him for 10), are very sensitive to what they perceive as criticism. I don't know your situation, but I would put betting money on that he doesn't feel validated by you. You as an INTP type 5 probably aren't steadily searching for that, and may not realize it's lacking.

He actually doesn't sound like a healthy ENFP, no offense. I'm sensing he feels backed into a corner. Usually ENFPs do not care for sparing and would rather drop the issue and move on than give it too much power. I would call truce on this current issue, and open up the floor with him by saying "What can I do differently?" Lead him out by asking him because there are issues he hasn't (and won't on his own) confront you with. Reassure him that he can come to you with his problems. ENFPs for the most part relish in making others happy; the fact that he's going out of his way to fight against you is saying something.


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

downsowf said:


> Generally, I say I'm sorry even if I'm not wrong or didn't do anything. For me, this is the most logical thing to do so I don't have to argue anymore and this person won't stay mad. Better to swallow your pride.
> 
> There could be a couple of factors with your boyfriend of why he won't apologize:
> 
> ...


Well the reason why I harp on it is because he tend to shrug off his mistake and just forget about it, not even realizing that I was the one who got hurt. I can't just make him do it to me often. It's not really him saying sorry to me which is important but the fact that atleast he should act mature enough to accept criticisms, try to talk about it and apologize if needed to. To stop acting so defensive in every confrontation. 

I have to present the argument in a logical manner because he acts SO irrational, just to show him how unreasonable he is. C'mon I even deduced our argument to: What if 2 students in a same level were given a Math test, the 1st student was given 1+1 to answer and the second student 9749376043 x 99864.... I asked if that's fair. And what the heck he said yes it is fair! And I asked him why and he can't even give an answer. He just stubbornly said that he sticks with what he thinks. And I know that was a silly question when were actually having a heated argument, but I did it to understand how he thinks. 

And yes I wait for him... it just irks me that I always have to wait for him to swallow his pride, that it takes us having a war before he sincerely admits his wrong doing. 

And yes we talk about this matter over and over again. We fight, then we reconcile with his promise that he'll be open to criticism next time... then the time comes that he does it again and I have to remind him about not being too touchy but he stays stubborn, then he apologize, then we reconcile... this is an endless pattern. 

He's actually a very wonderful person and that's his only weakness. But that attitude of him hinders me to be honest of my feelings. Because when I start getting expressive. That's the time when trouble starts. Heck! Just me asking "Do you love me?", just to hear him say yes. ( Like what normal gf's do when they're in "sweetie pie" mode) But did I hear it? No! He got berserk and asked why I ask those questions. Do I not trust him? Then I say that I just wanna ask him. Then he says what's the sense of asking him that. Are words better than action? Then I start getting pissed why he can't just say yes immediately! And he then gets pissed that "Of course it's a yes. I don't need to ask him. Then I say why do you have to make things complicated and act so defensive when I wasn't accusing you of anything. Why do you have to attack me when all I wanted is to hear a simple word of affection. And that goes on and on....

This made me think that maybe I should just keep thoughts to myself especially if it's not such a big deal like the one I've mentioned above. That I should stop caring about my own feelings like when I get offended from his simple jokes (those small stuffs), just to avoid arguments. That I should just do it when it's really a big issue like infidelity or something related to that. *sigh*


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

StaggerLee said:


> I don't think all ENFPs are like this, I'm not, but if I think I'm right.... Then I won't apologize, doesn't matter what.
> 
> Try this:
> Look him in the eyes, let him see how sad you are, tell him "Babe, I'm really hurt, I just want you to say you're sorry, could you do that for me?". Maybe he'll say without meaning it, and if he does, just accept it, hug him and say thank you. It will be alright.
> ...


Lol, I guess I could try that. It's because when we argue, I always have this "matter-of-fact-mode" attitude. Maybe that's why he gets extra defensive even if I'm the one he got hurt. Maybe if I just start acting sad, he would get soft too. 

But hey! that's hard! That is so un- INTP'ish  But I'll give it a shot next time.


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

corgiflatmate said:


> I'd recommend consulting the ENFP forum. They are always willing to help and hear you out. ENFPs, in my experience (been with one for 4 years now, known him for 10), are very sensitive to what they perceive as criticism. I don't know your situation, but I would put betting money on that he doesn't feel validated by you. You as an INTP type 5 probably aren't steadily searching for that, and may not realize it's lacking.
> 
> He actually doesn't sound like a healthy ENFP, no offense. I'm sensing he feels backed into a corner. Usually ENFPs do not care for sparing and would rather drop the issue and move on than give it too much power. I would call truce on this current issue, and open up the floor with him by saying "What can I do differently?" Lead him out by asking him because there are issues he hasn't (and won't on his own) confront you with. Reassure him that he can come to you with his problems. ENFPs for the most part relish in making others happy; the fact that he's going out of his way to fight against you is saying something.


If you're thinking that maybe he is doing something fishy, I don't think so because it's just his usual attitude. He is the type that when he jokes something (coz he is a really good joker) and somebody gets offended, instead of feeling bad about what he did, he would get annoyed instead, thinking that that person is just so sensitive, or spoilsport... although he won't really say it out loud in front of the person. He'll just rant to me. Then I'll listen to him and say.... "but honey, did you ever think about that person's feelings?" then he will just mumble ... he's just like that. Mainly, it's all about not accepting criticisms or just an ego-thing. He doesn't like being questioned. And yeah I even told him his defensive attitude. I said that instead of me not getting suspicious of him, I start being one because of his temper. But I know he's a good guy. 
And actually about dropping the issue, he is like that. He hates arguments. So he have this phrase..."can we just move on, let's stop this topic". Maybe I'm also at fault because I don't allow him to do that. I want all argument to have a closure. I want him to say sorry not because he wants to stop the argument but because he did understand the situation. That's why he blames me for being too argumentative. I do get him. But my point is, can't we argue without fighting? As a mature individual, we should be able to do that. I can speak up my mind, he can say what he thinks about me, make a compromise and that's it. 

But for him arguments are fights. So he usually shrugs it off. But I say no. And that's when he starts his tantrum.


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

It's because I want to know if he even recognized his fault. Yes, he'll be nice to me. But do I know if he even took me seriously in the first place? If your saying that maybe he just can't say the word sorry but he does it through actions instead, well no, he doesn't do that He'll just act nicely like the usual him. Maybe you'll think I'm too persistent but I do feel ignored and hurt. Imagine me saying things like "I got offended with what you did" and he'll say "Why would you get offended by that" in an annoyed way... and I'll say "But I did" then he'll say "Ok. Can we just move on".... then he'll act and be jolly like nothing happened. Isn't it frustrating in my part??? Like my feeling's not a big deal to him. Did he even realize that he did something bad which he should be sorry about? If he just said like "Ok I won't do it again" I'll even accept it because it's like saying sorry and recognizing his fault. But no. So I have to bug him about it just so he would take me seriously.


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## StaggerLee (Jan 8, 2012)

wingcharm said:


> Lol, I guess I could try that. It's because when we argue, I always have this "matter-of-fact-mode" attitude. Maybe that's why he gets extra defensive even if I'm the one he got hurt. Maybe if I just start acting sad, he would get soft too.
> 
> But hey! that's hard! That is so un- INTP'ish  But I'll give it a shot next time.


Try it, we ENFPs can't handle thinking that we made someone sad.


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

crazyeddie said:


> Sounds like an Fe vs. Fi thing to me. Fi I don't fully understand, and I barely understand my own Fe. Your Fe could explain why you're wanting to hear "I'm sorry," since you're looking to get a certain emotional reaction from him. His Fi is more about living up to his internal values. So, when you accuse him of wrong-doing, he takes it personal, because you're accusing him of not living up to his own values. Plus, there's probably an element of using Te to justify his actions.
> 
> It might help if you provide constructive criticism rather than accusations - assume that his heart was in the right place, but he simply was in error about the facts, maybe?
> 
> Fi is about applying inner values on a case-by-case basis. By contrast, our actions are more guided by our Ti principles - roughly, we have an internal set of principles that we try to apply across all cases. I'm guessing that one reason you want him to apologize is that apologizing means re-affirming a commitment to follow certain principles. So... maybe this approach? 1) Assume that his heart is in the right place. 2) Figure out where he was in error about the facts. 3) Explain to him what you would like him to do in cases like this in the future - his Te might respond to that more, once you've reassured his Fi. 4) And, to satisfy your Fe, get him to promise to do that in the future?


I've explained to him a lot of times that not because I confronted him, it means I'm judging or accusing him. I just said what I feel and I'm expecting that he at least recognize and discuss it together instead of him making fuss about the situation.


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

StaggerLee said:


> Try it, we ENFPs can't handle thinking that we made someone sad.


Thinking about it, I realize that he stops talking when I start crying. Hahaha.


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## Agelaius (Apr 3, 2010)

downsowf said:


> There could be a couple of factors with your boyfriend of why he won't apologize:
> 
> 1. You're overly critical of him. He probably knows that he's wrong, but for you to harp on it and continuously make an argument about his "wrongness" makes him seethe and think twice about wanting to apologize.
> 
> ...


This. Though, the bolded part doesn't always happen nor need to (however common place it may be amongst ENFPs, myself included :laughing.


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

wingcharm said:


> Me and my bf are pretty ok but when we get into argument, the usual cause is his egoistic personality. I don't know if it's all related to being an ESFP but he tends to act so defensive sometimes. This makes me hesitate to express my feelings. Because when I address something that he did that offended me, even if it was said in a calm manner, instead of saying sorry... he becomes defensive and gets mad at me instead. I don't get why he overreacts when I simply just told him my concern without accusing or judging. He said we should be open to each other. But when I do speak up, he perceives it so negatively saying that all I see from him are bad things. And because of that, I get mad at him too. Then this war goes on for about three days. We continue the argument through chat. Me, trying to prove my point why I should be the one to get offended and why he should not react so defensively because I'm not accusing him or anything... and him, keeping stubborn and touchy, saying that I should've not said it in the first place, and why does I think that he is the meanest person in the whole world. So I have to remind that it's not about him, that I just said my concern.
> 
> What irks me so much is that all I want to hear from him is his sorry but in those times I have to explain everything logically so that I could force him to understand my point and make him say it. But then even if he gets trapped in our argument, he stays stubborn.
> 
> ...


PS wrong title: He's an ESFP not N... sorry 

How can I change the thread title anyway


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

wingcharm said:


> I've explained to him a lot of times that not because I confronted him, it means I'm judging or accusing him. I just said what I feel and I'm expecting that he at least recognize and discuss it together instead of him making fuss about the situation.


And you expect him to believe this, in his bones, just because you *told* him? It's like talking to a dog - the content of your words don't matter so much as your tone of voice, your actions.


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## crazyeddie (Oct 19, 2011)

wingcharm said:


> PS wrong title: He's an ESFP not N... sorry
> 
> How can I change the thread title anyway


huh, that does change things a little ... well, you'd do well to post this in the ESFP forum anyway, so...


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

crazyeddie said:


> And you expect him to believe this, in his bones, just because you *told* him? It's like talking to a dog - the content of your words don't matter so much as your tone of voice, your actions.


Won't he even get used to it? Won't he even get the idea even if I repeatedly told him those stuffs. And as far as I know, I say those things in a calm manner. Oh well, I'm still trying.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

If it's me, I'd simply say flatly to him what you've said here, that he doesn't walk as he talks by allowing you to speak openly about everything, including ways that are or seem to be critical of him. 

Ask him directly if he's mature enough to handle criticism and to consider the idea that may he's not perfect and needs to change some aspect of himself for the betterment of your and your relationship with him. 

Then (and this is the toughest part), do NOT engage him in any personal attacks which (apparently, for now) WILL come in response. Remain calm, tell him you love him (or whatever you two say to each other) but that you won't engage in personal attacks when you're trying to communicate openly with him, and literally just walk away. 

Rinse and repeat as appropriate, and what I mean here is take this approach again the next time you legitimately need to tell him that something he's done has hurt you - don't go looking for something here. Just let it happen naturally over time so that he can't credibly claim that you're just provoking him or picking fights. 



wingcharm said:


> Well, I do. I tell him that I really admire his extrovertness. That he easily goes along well with people. That everybody loves him. That he is good looking... those stuffs. And seriously I sometimes think that I don't need to say those things because he perfectly knows that he is a people magnet. Even if i don't say it, he tells it to me anyway, not in a conceited manner though, more on when he's joking. But see, he is aware about his asset.


Do you ever compliment him in unexpected areas, such as his intelligence?


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

I see the ESFP clarification now. This is unfortunately a pretty emotionally self-centered type that doesn't deal well with "N" stuff, such as future possibilities, especially when dealing with a presently emotional situation. Maturity is going to be a big factor here, and your boyfriend sounds immature.


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## wingcharm (Jan 2, 2012)

redmanXNTP said:


> I see the ESFP clarification now. This is unfortunately a pretty emotionally self-centered type that doesn't deal well with "N" stuff, such as future possibilities, especially when dealing with a presently emotional situation. Maturity is going to be a big factor here, and your boyfriend sounds immature.


Actually, I usually think that I'm the immature one in our relationship. Mostly because he is older than me, he is better in handling social situations and practical stuffs and more of the giver. But then when it comes to emotion and criticisms, he automatically goes into defensive mode. And believe me, I told him a lot of times about being "mature" in our argument. But then he attacks me of my "immaturity". 
And yesterday he was in that mode again but we didn't fight. It all started when he mentioned about a road accident near his place. So I said "Hun, please take care of yourself coz that street is really dangerous. And guess what, he responded "yes hun, but your road is more dangerous" and I replied "But ours is more of a motorcycle accident but yours is dump truck accident that kills plenty", then he said "yeah but it's more frequent in your place"... then I realized that we're having another silly argument again so I said "Hun, why does it seem that you're comparing what's the most dangerous road? Is this some kind of a contest? I just said, to take care of yourself"... so he realized the silliness and laughed about it and he added "Because you've mentioned about our dangerous road so I thought of another more dangerous road and the first thing that came into my mind is yours." (But why the heck should he even start comparing roads? seriously!) so as an added bonus I even said "yes hun, our road is even called the 'killer highway'" and I'm sure he felt victorious and said "See! I told you!" and I said 'Hun, I've known it all along but no need to compare roads just because I'm worried for your safety" and in the end he said "Yes honey, I'll take care of myself always". 

But see, he could've just replied that last answer immediately after I told him to take care of himself. But instead, he started defending his "road" (when it's not really necessary) just because he thought that I was criticizing it.

I could've engaged myself to another stupid fight but I'm aware of his attitude so I was able to stop it. 
When he is in that mode I usually find it childish and cute that I just wanna pinch his face and hug him. But when it all comes to serious stuffs, that's the time that I wanna punch his guts. 

But, I'm so in love with this ESFP 

And yes, I compliment him about his intellect. Like being good in Math (which I suck) and telling him that even if he wasn't good in academics when he was a student, I know that it's just because he wasn't serious that time, but now that he is mature, he gets good ranking in his work exam and that I knew that he is "brainy" all along. 

Am I not a good INTP gf? Hahaha!


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## BagelBagel (Dec 19, 2014)

I think you should let him apologize but not say about what. Just say you feel sad. Don't tell him why. Then maybe he will say he's sorry about something if you give him time to thin about all that he might have done.


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## Brecken (Jul 13, 2015)

Well, as an ENFP I can see where he is coming from, though it is incorrect and frankly, yes, we ENFP's are prone to this behaviour. It is something he is gonna have to work out, but what can you do? Well, I would say, just be very careful about how you bring up the matter. It is evident that he has an extreme preference of feeling over thinking which is where the problem lies, because you are the opposite. If you take the logical approach to him (as you naturally would) he will become offended because that is just part of the feeling-preference personality type. I would suggest, (though this might not work on him) instead of directly telling him what the issue is, mention that certain similar behaviours annoy you, and when he thinks about it later that day, or the net day, he will realise that he is doing something wrong on his own. Then he will apologize. Because, chances are, he will hang on to statements that you make about what you do and do not like, and try to remember them. Chances are he won't think about it right away, but later on, something will trigger in his mind, and he will think about it. Anyways, this post is 3 times longer than I anticipated.  oops. Hope it is helpful.


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