# How to spot and avoid sociopaths?



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

They can be so good at faking emotions and blending in.


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## palito34 (Jul 8, 2011)

First: learn about them. Educate yourself: 

Psychopathyawareness's Blog
10 Easy Steps to Understanding Narcissistic Personality Disorde - Narcissistic personality disorder - Zimbio
Lovefraud Blog » Blog Archive » 10 Signs that you

Second, beware the warning signs. Typically if someone has a history with "crazy exes" or "evil ex-friends", it's a pattern. If they blame all of their problems on other people, it's not a good sign. A good person should only have mostly good things to say about their friends and past relationships  Sociopaths are also very calm and charming, often surrounding themselves with very insecure people who look up to those traits as "cool".

Finally, just start asking questions. Try to get to the core of who they are. Most people enjoy talking about themselves and sharing their pasts. Sociopaths will be extremely dodgy, brag a lot, lie even when it's not necessary, and their stories will never add up. Eventually they'll get irritated with your questioning, because it poses a threat to their charade. 

Then again, I've discovered a very nice sociopath on this site who's completely open about it. So I guess don't judge a book by its cover


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## tuna (Jun 10, 2010)

jaxymack said:


> First: learn about them. Educate yourself:
> 
> Psychopathyawareness's Blog
> 10 Easy Steps to Understanding Narcissistic Personality Disorde - Narcissistic personality disorder - Zimbio
> ...


NPD =/= sociopathy.


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## Pillow (Apr 17, 2011)

I'd say the best way to spot them is the lying about anything and for no reason, even when telling the truth would actually be better/easier/less hassle. But then not all compulsive liars are sociopaths so that's only a warning sign. Also being able to talk anyone into doing anything. I know a certain psychopath who missed a flight and managed to talk a random businessman into paying for his flight home (which was ridiculously expensive as it was leaving in about an hour).

@jaxymack beware of people who admit to being psychopaths and seem like decent human beings. Although they probably can't do too much damage over the internet.


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## palito34 (Jul 8, 2011)

tuna said:


> NPD =/= sociopathy.


Good point -- sorry for throwing that one in there. They're both worth learning about though


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

jaxymack said:


> Good point -- sorry for throwing that one in there. They're both worth learning about though


Thanks. Well I met someone who uses the enneagram as an excuse to act that way, but I am convinced he is a full blown sociopath. I have known a lot of threes and there is a difference between someone hitting a down point in their life or having bad days and someone who is emotionally undeveloped. I noticed he was impulsive and eager from the beginning and talked bad about people a lot, but I get so absorbed in empathizing with people's complaints, that I forget to use my judgement. His stories didn't really add up either. They weren't calculating in nature, but more so like compulsive lying. I had a feeling he could have been honest about so many things that probably wouldn't make any difference at all. Maybe there was more to the story or he just feels that uncomfortable with being honest. Basicly I am just realizing I got screwed over and I could have caught it if I put more thought into it.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Cleo said:


> Thanks. Well I met someone who uses the enneagram as an excuse to act that way, but I am convinced he is a full blown sociopath. I have known a lot of threes and there is a difference between someone hitting a down point in their life or having bad days and someone who is emotionally undeveloped. I noticed he was impulsive and eager from the beginning and talked bad about people a lot, but I get so absorbed in empathizing with people's complaints, that I forget to use my judgement. His stories didn't really add up either. They weren't calculating in nature, but more so like compulsive lying. I had a feeling he could have been honest about so many things that probably wouldn't make any difference at all. Maybe there was more to the story or he just feels that uncomfortable with being honest. Basicly I am just realizing I got screwed over and I could have caught it if I put more thought into it.


threes when unhealthy can lean toward narcissism, eights are more likely to be sociopaths when extremely unhealthy - at least according to the personality disorder and enneagram correlations i have read,


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Promethea said:


> threes when unhealthy can lean toward narcissism, eights are more likely to be sociopaths when extremely unhealthy - at least according to the personality disorder and enneagram correlations i have read,


A lot of things I have read show that when threes get unhealthy they lean toward narcissism and then antisocial PD as they get worst. Threes have the charm for it too. But yes, people from the anger triad do seem to fit better, because of the calm demeanor of that disorder and the need for power. I don't think this guy would be your stereotypical sociopath though, which was why it was hard for me to detect. I don't think he could be as callus as others, but maybe if something was a big enough threat he would be. I don't think he would hurt people just for the fun of it, but only to get what he wants. I don't think I have seen the worst of him. He told me he felt numb lately too. Being an emotional person, that is a feeling that I have only experienced once in my life, which was when I was in the military and not allowed to have feelings. He is starting to send chills down my bones.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

are you certain hes a sociopath and not just a narcissist? narcissists are more charming and less violent in general. and the way they hurt you is typically by using you or neglecting you because your emotions dont actually matter to them. a sociopath can have violent outbursts and be more of a threat. narcissists are cold toward you, but can fake warmth. sociopaths are likely to hurt you to get some sick fix. ive dealt with both myself unfortunately.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Promethea said:


> are you certain hes a sociopath and not just a narcissist? narcissists are more charming and less violent in general. and the way they hurt you is typically by using you or neglecting you because your emotions dont actually matter to them. a sociopath can have violent outbursts and be more of a threat. narcissists are cold toward you, but can fake warmth. sociopaths are likely to hurt you to get some sick fix. ive dealt with both myself unfortunately.


But aren't narcissists capable of having emotional attachments? I know they can be cold, but this guy had absolutely not emotional attachment to me after we were close. It was so bazaar. I have never seen anything like it. I also saw something a little sadistic in him. Just a hint of it. He watched my reactions when he asked me to do things. He wanted to see what he could get me to do, even if he didn't want to do it. I kept telling him no and then as the night went by I would give in a little more and a little more, and then he would say no. 

Before we got to his house I told him I shouldn't go there and I shouldn't be drinking around him and that I don't ever do that. By our conversations he knows I am very modest and that I have done so well at sticking to my values. I have a feeling that the determining factor of whether he would keep talking to me relied on how far he could get me to go. Like maybe he has a deep hatred there for women or women who give in. It was like a game to him. He wasn't honest about why he didn't want to keep going either. He kept changing his story on why. At the same time though, he was so kind to me and took me to breakfast and wanted to keep talking. I am so confused. I feel so violated. Or maybe he just wanted somone better than me. This has made me feel so bad that it literally makes my whole body hurt.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

do you feel like he is just trying to see what he can get away with to prove something to himself, or does he really get some sick delight other than the ego boost?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Promethea said:


> do you feel like he is just trying to see what he can get away with to prove something to himself, or does he really get some sick delight other than the ego boost?


I don't know. I sort of thought it was an ego boost at first, but it seems like there may have been more calculating behind it. I guess it could be a little of both. Looking back, I am sure he knew all along he wasn't going to do these things, but he was begging me and I had to keep telling him no. He asked me "you don't do that?" I told him it was too soon. Then he asked "but you would though?" Its not like he asked me these things to understand me and be closer to me, it was like he was very objective about it and it had nothing to do with being in the moment.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

well whatever he is, hes certainly manipulative and doesnt have your best interests in mind. i dont think people like that are common though, and you did in fact discover this in him, and i believe you can in the future as well if someone tries it again. i had a friend who dated a sociopath for a long time and she just didnt see those things in him. he ended up beating her within an inch of her life one night, and didnt think anything of it. i think your instincts are better than hers.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Promethea said:


> well whatever he is, hes certainly manipulative and doesnt have your best interests in mind. i dont think people like that are common though, and you did in fact discover this in him, and i believe you can in the future as well if someone tries it again. i had a friend who dated a sociopath for a long time and she just didnt see those things in him. he ended up beating her within an inch of her life one night, and didnt think anything of it. i think your instincts are better than hers.


It is amazing how they can switch on people. I have known a few where long after getting to know them, they left my jaw on the floor wondering, "wow I didn't know that was there."


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

this will sound funny coming from a t - but look for it in how they make you feel. lol. and those instincts are probably right.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Promethea said:


> this will sound funny coming from a t - but look for it in how they make you feel. lol. and those instincts are probably right.


How they make you feel? You mean the bad vibe? Its funny because overall he seemed like a ligit guy. It was just certain things that were not adding up. They usually do give me that creepy feeling, it just wasn't the case with him. Maybe he is the expert sociopath. The Bernie Madoff of frauds.


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

Did you know that the most common profession for Sociopaths are 1) Criminal Defense Attorneys and 2) CEOS or Administrators of companies? 

This tells me that not many sociopaths get into trouble with the law etc, in fact they fly right under the radar in every day life. They play games and are your next door neighbors. They just say what they want to gain what they want and have no morol obligation to tell the truth. Indeed, they have no inner compass that will make them feel guilt for this type of behavior, of haul them up short for the behavor, unlike the general normal public. Most of the really good ones are in very powerful postions and they are worth so much to their companies that people gladly cover for them, or bail them out.

Psychopaths on the other hand, are like Charles Manson. They are crazy and look like it. They have no evidience of feeling in their eyes, they are very very scary. If you meet one, you know it. 

People like to compaire Showtimes Dexter to a Sociopath, however, the way he is protrayed on the show, he is not. In the books he is more that way, but if he were diagnosed, (as he appears on the show)he is an individual with Sociopathic tendancies/NOS.(not otherwise specified).


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Cleo said:


> How they make you feel? You mean the bad vibe? Its funny because overall he seemed like a ligit guy. It was just certain things that were not adding up. They usually do give me that creepy feeling, it just wasn't the case with him. Maybe he is the expert sociopath. The Bernie Madoff of frauds.


no matter how good someone fakes it, i can always spot insincerity myself - well, not in text online, but in person sure enough. that, and they will find little ways to show you they dont care. just simple neglect here and there that shows they lack empathy.


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## Longdove (Jan 4, 2011)

This is the era O'da internet, if I suspect someone is a sociopath - it's easy, all I've gots to do is read their blog and I'll get all the info I need, OR come across one of their quizzes, and if they rate 85% Sociopath, I'm knocking the door on the local patty bandwagon so they can be taken away like the rest of the mad-dogs.


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## Elwin (Feb 17, 2011)

Check out the work of Dr. Robert Hare, who has studied psychopathy for some forty years and is probably the top researcher on this issue. His book _Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of The Psychopaths Among Us_ has quite a bit of insight about how the psychopathic brain functions. The last chapter is about dealing with them, but if I recall it was mostly simple stuff like being skeptical of charisma, trying to be more aware when entering relationships, knowing your own vulnerabilities etc. According to Hare, even he gets taken in by them from time to time.

As for other personality disorders like NPD, BPD, HPD etc., there is a short book by Stan Kapuchinski you might like called _Say Goodbye to Your PDI_ that goes over about five types and how to deal with them. The reoccurring trait among all seems to be that one finds themselves on the defensive whenever they are around, but each type does have their own bag of tricks.


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

History and reputation is the only way. Bullies are five a penny. Sociopaths are two a penny. A Psychopath can ruin your life in about ten seconds. They are relatively rare though. About 1 in a 1000 I would say in normal civilisation. Many more in jail.


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## Beatrice (May 1, 2011)

> [A sociopath's] hallmarks are deceit and a reckless disregard for others. A [sociopath's] consistent irresponsibility bears no remorse- only indifference to the emotional pain others may suffer.
> Peter, for example, found utterly foreign the idea that others could be hurt emotionally by what he did. In family conferences, when his mother talked about the anguish he had caused his family, Peter was surprised, becoming defensive, calling himself the "victim".
> For [sociopaths], other people are always an It, a mark to be duped, used, and discarded.
> ...
> ...


I put "sociopaths" in place of "psychopaths". They are the same thing, but I didn't want to confuse anyone.
So to sum it up, sociopaths do not have a capacity for empathy, nor do they feel any fear.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

KnowitAll said:


> I put "sociopaths" in place of "psychopaths". They are the same thing, but I didn't want to confuse anyone.
> So to sum it up, sociopaths do not have a capacity for empathy, nor do they feel any fear.


Actually there is a difference though. It's just a lot of mental health professionals do not really distinguish the difference anymore and put it all under the category of antisocial personality disorder. Some psychologists still use it though, and especially criminologists.


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## Beatrice (May 1, 2011)

Cleo said:


> Actually there is a difference though. It's just a lot of mental health professionals do not really distinguish the difference anymore and put it all under the category of antisocial personality disorder. Some psychologists still use it though, and especially criminologists.


What's the difference between them?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

KnowitAll said:


> What's the difference between them?


It is sort of vague and some people disagree, but mostly the psychopath is more calculating, ambitious, and charming, where the sociopath is more disorganized and is more likely to be living off of his parents or on the streets. So a sociopath might be someone like a bank robber that doesn't get very far before getting caught and the psychopath could be like a corporate executive womanizer, stealing from employees a little at a time and covering his tracks. But some might fit a little of both descriptions and there also subtypes within.


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## Firefly12 (Jul 10, 2011)

If you want to know where all the sociopaths are, watch the documentary film _Inside Job._


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## Ozzy10 (Aug 24, 2011)

Had a guy once grab my arm whispering every married woman has a secret. My intuition said "I have a cold heart." His eyes would sparkle like diamonds at times..


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## Feral sheep (May 13, 2011)

jaxymack said:


> First: learn about them. Educate yourself:
> 
> Psychopathyawareness's Blog
> 10 Easy Steps to Understanding Narcissistic Personality Disorde - Narcissistic personality disorder - Zimbio
> ...



you are aware that there are people out there that dont feel comfortable talking with themselves for other various reasons. you are pigeon holing those people as being sociopaths when they are not.


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## Feral sheep (May 13, 2011)

Big bad wolf said:


> I'm not sure the current train of thought is the end-all, be-all best way to spot sociopaths, or to judge them. People read quotes from the DSM or other psychology articles regarding antisocial personality disorder, which currently include a lot of traits of psychopathy, and go strictly with that. In fact, there's no difference in diagnosis (currently) for a psychopath and a sociopath, it's just ASPD. That's all good and well, but I think there's a lot of people like me, who are heavy on one set of traits, but not another. I don't possess a lot of psychopathy traits, at all. If you're looking for someone charming, financially manipulative, unemotional, fearless, and with a larger-than-life personality, you won't spot me. I'm not fearless, and in fact, have several issues with anxiety. I'm not overly confident, my self-esteem is shit. I have social phobia, so I'm not gonna be the guy in the spotlight. I have depression issues, so I'm not motivated or driven. However, I have serious anger issues, a history of violent behavior, a history of breaking the law (misdemeanors to serious felonies), severely diminished capability for empathy (I'm too self-absorbed to even begin to notice your needs or feelings), serious issues with impulsiveness (I've struggled with weight and addiction issues throughout life), etc. Essentially, I score through the roof on one bracket and barely register a bleep on another. I also score around 30 on that psychopathy checklist. I'm far from alone in this. I believe you're far more likely to run into a sociopath, than you are a psychopath, but I don't believe myself, or other sociopaths, to be "that bad", either. I suppose that may very well be a matter of perception, though. I'm not going to empty your bank account, steal your things, and leave you in the middle of the night, bankrupt and homeless, while laughing to myself about it (psychopath), but I may see you talking to another guy, get paranoid, misconstrue the situation, and emotionally or physically abuse you for it (sociopath).


you dont sound like a sociopath, that sounds like something else. if you are, it sounds like you are purposefully misleading people away from the bread crumb trail and that makes much sense considering you are "sociopath"



you are offering up another unpopular profile as means of avoiding scrutiny.


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## Feral sheep (May 13, 2011)

I think fear makes people into stupid sheep. there are many idiots here that quickly would press the panic button on someone who displays a characteristic of sociopath and not give second thought for other reasons why a person does what they do or even bother to get to know them in depth. 

I also believe there are sociopaths on here that dont like being outed. they have to curve their behaviors in ways more acceptable an that means more work, makes manipulation and access to power more tough. so you are going to get clouded statement misleading on what a sociopath is. 

this combined with the stupid sheep can be dangerous and injury to innocent individuals.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Feral sheep said:


> you are aware that there are people out there that dont feel comfortable talking with themselves for other various reasons. you are pigeon holing those people as being sociopaths when they are not.


Jaxymack is right though. It is at least a red flag to some kind of pathological behavior. You can be aware of your own short-comings, which we all have, without having to voluntarily bring up how everyone else around you is so screwed up. That is actually the key characteristic to personality disorders. Usually when I meet people who start complaining about others, I immediately think, if this is so then why don't they make better choices in friends or wonder if they do something to bring out the worst in people. My problem is I am so subjective to my environment, that even though I'm stuck up, I still hang around and try to nurture their problems away rather than see the situation for what it is. I am kicking myself...still.  I am such an idiot.

Furthermore, I can't help but to blame myself for my past bad experiences, even when I shouldn't. I think that is what healthy people do to some degree. You beat yourself up, partially because we do have to take some responsibility to how we let others treat us and we don't want it to happen again, so naturally you don't want to bring up every failure to people who barely even know you. It's just too embarrassing when you look at it realistically and responsibly.


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## TheLazyJ (Jan 3, 2011)

I've dealt with this a few times and I have become quite good at detecting it as I've gotten older. Narcissists and sociopaths use "armor" to defend their weak sense of self. They construct a false persona and can appear normal to most people. One borderline sociopath I knew actually studied feminism and Buddhism to appear feeling though he was incapable of empathy. He made jokes about people that exposed his true self. I was always wondering, how can this person really say something that awful and get away with it? They feel powerful when they push any type of boundary. Feeling guilty was a pattern for me too. I got out of it by reflecting on my true friendships and seeking more of those friendships. I know what it's like to want to beat yourself up for it. It's a vicious cycle though. Take time to focus on friends and what makes you happy or you might find yourself seeking out another person with a personality disorder.


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## Feral sheep (May 13, 2011)

Cleo said:


> Jaxymack is right though. It is at least a red flag to some kind of pathological behavior. You can be aware of your own short-comings, which we all have, without having to voluntarily bring up how everyone else around you is so screwed up. That is actually the key characteristic to personality disorders. Usually when I meet people who start complaining about others, I immediately think, if this is so then why don't they make better choices in friends or wonder if they do something to bring out the worst in people. My problem is I am so subjective to my environment, that even though I'm stuck up, I still hang around and try to nurture their problems away rather than see the situation for what it is. I am kicking myself...still.  I am such an idiot.
> 
> Furthermore, I can't help but to blame myself for my past bad experiences, even when I shouldn't. I think that is what healthy people do to some degree. You beat yourself up, partially because we do have to take some responsibility to how we let others treat us and we don't want it to happen again, so naturally you don't want to bring up every failure to people who barely even know you. It's just too embarrassing when you look at it realistically and responsibly.


Im not sure, but I know that if a person does not want to talk about themselves and does not feel comfortable that its understandable, until they get to know you. 


there are alot of people that need time,(I know you are not doing this) there are people who say, think because you dont play with the normal rules of conversation your a criminal or a killer and Im gonna apply this label to you. it follows in that way and alienates people who are uncomfortable.

now who is the sociopath now? because you are using social pressure to create control for yourself. that is the hallmark of a sociopath, power and control.


sociopaths are not stupid. they look for similarities in people and ways to pass off others to be what they are. 

they understand that people come together at the expense of a single person and they use it to their advantage, this is their common card.

Im more inclined to look at the person that points their finger


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

Apparently superficial charm is a common trait of psychopaths. They also have a tendency to attempt to dominate and intimidate others when they think that it will help them get their own way. They seem to be able to switch this behaviour on and off like a light switch, one minute they will be trying to intimidate someone, then when they feel that it isn't working, they will switch tacts and attempt to charm the person. It's very calculating. 

One of their biggest flaws is poor impulse control, which makes them prone to criminal behaviour, but also leads them to make poor decisions as they attempt to satisfy their impulses without consideration for the future consequences. They are also prone to lying, they lie habitually even when they have nothing to hide.

An interesting fact about psychopaths is that they are very resistant to any form of treatment. And it was actually found that the ones who comply with treatment are more likely to reoffend than the ones who refuse treatment altogether. My personal theory on this is that the ones who take part in treatment do so as a way of "manipulating the system". Basic idea is that if they are seen to improve through treatment, then authorities will stop paying attention to them. I think this also shows the sinister nature of the psychopath in that they are either incapable of changing their behaviour or they simply do not want to.


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## Feral sheep (May 13, 2011)

Luke said:


> Apparently superficial charm is a common trait of psychopaths. They also have a tendency to attempt to dominate and intimidate others when they think that it will help them get their own way. They seem to be able to switch this behaviour on and off like a light switch, one minute they will be trying to intimidate someone, then when they feel that it isn't working, they will switch tacts and attempt to charm the person. It's very calculating.
> 
> One of their biggest flaws is poor impulse control, which makes them prone to criminal behaviour, but also leads them to make poor decisions as they attempt to satisfy their impulses without consideration for the future consequences. They are also prone to lying, they lie habitually even when they have nothing to hide.


impulse seems psychopathic.

I learned to determine a sociopath from everyone else, is by asking if they are a conservative. you get a yes, then you have your answer


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

Feral sheep said:


> impulse seems psychopathic.


I think that poor impulse control can make someone more prone to committing a wide range of criminal activity. And psychopaths are known for their criminal versatility . Basically, if you have poor impulse control and you get angry and feel like attacking someone, you are more likely to actually do it. This doesn't just apply to violence, but other forms of criminality as well. If you consider theft for instance, if a normal person wants something, they will usually be patient enough to save up until they can afford it, but if someone with poor impulse control wants something, they are more likely to "just take it". Poor impulse control also makes people more prone to drug and alcohol abuse, which is something psychopaths often have a problem with.


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

To avoid sociopaths, I simply be myself.

Because I'm a sociopath, too. I just make sure no one leads on to it, but they have a tendency to see right through me.


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## Mr. Morph (Aug 25, 2011)

jaxymack said:


> First: learn about them. Educate yourself:
> 
> Psychopathyawareness's Blog
> 10 Easy Steps to Understanding Narcissistic Personality Disorde - Narcissistic personality disorder - Zimbio
> ...


That's goes against what I've learned about this subject. What you said was interesting, but you lost me with this.

I would disregard people who openly state they are sociopathic. That's me though.
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The problem with most people is, they are easily suckered into believe a person to be good, in their interest. I could easily have people like me, just as easily as I could get them to hate me. It is not very difficult to conjure a persona that fits in enough to fool people into thinking you like them. And if they think you like them, they are more likely to like you. People are easily fooled.

I met a guy who ticked boxes. I saw through the charm, funny-guy thing. His character was one which I believe can't be real, it was very superficial.

I could easily get on with someone like that, but the fact that dishonest people irritate me, makes it impossible.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Feral sheep said:


> Im not sure, but I know that if a person does not want to talk about themselves and does not feel comfortable that its understandable, until they get to know you.
> 
> 
> there are alot of people that need time,(I know you are not doing this) there are people who say, think because you dont play with the normal rules of conversation your a criminal or a killer and Im gonna apply this label to you. it follows in that way and alienates people who are uncomfortable.
> ...


I don't believe anyone is pointing fingers. People are bringing up characteristics. Everyone judges a little. It's part of protecting ourselves.


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

Feral sheep said:


> I learned to determine a sociopath from everyone else, is by asking if they are a conservative. you get a yes, then you have your answer


"I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." -John Stuart Mill.

:wink:

Sorry for being off topic, I just love this quote.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Luke said:


> "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." -John Stuart Mill.
> 
> :wink:
> 
> Sorry for being off topic, I just love this quote.


Oh, that is so much nicer. Haha. I get what your saying though. Oops, did I say that out loud...


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Tawanda said:


> To avoid sociopaths, I simply be myself.
> 
> Because I'm a sociopath, too. I just make sure no one leads on to it, but they have a tendency to see right through me.


I'm not sure if I believe you. It seems like people have been glamorizing this disorder some. In that post alone you seem to be too honest in a personal way.


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## Modifier (Aug 17, 2011)

you cant spot them if you can it wont be a sociopath


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

Cleo said:


> I'm not sure if I believe you. It seems like people have been glamorizing this disorder some. In that post alone you seem to be too honest in a personal way.


You have to be honest enough so that you're able to throw people off.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Tawanda said:


> You have to be honest enough so that you're able to throw people off.


Hmmm... Still don't believe you.  You are defending your argument, which I don't think I have ever seen a sociopath do. Everything is a power game to them. You openly defending yourself would be like giving in. If what you are saying is true, I believe I would have seen Dr. Jeckel or Mr. Hyde, which ever one was the mean one, in response, or a flat out you don't care attitude, or get even with me by doing something on one of my other threads. You are going to have to try harder to prove your case Tawanda. =)


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## SaiKick (Jan 4, 2011)

Tawanda said:


> You have to be honest enough so that you're able to throw people off.


@Tawanda -- I'm having to side with @Cleo here

you care too much about what "we" think. This indicates traces of possible guilt and remorse, feelings that a psychopath/sociopath do not experience. I sense that you care about others' emotions yet you try hard to pretend otherwise. This is likely a titanium shell to protect an otherwise tender heart-- maybe one that has been betrayed and shattered. Rather than a true sociopath, you more resemble the bitter cynical version of a once naive and innocent soul, so scarred by humanity that your only recourse is to provoke others to emotion in order to prove to yourself that you're still alive. 

Or i could just be delving into my own fantasies again. Either way, nobody with that avatar and signature could be a sociopath. So if this is a trace buster-buster move to truly throw me off the trail-- good job. But if that were your intent, to throw us off, then what would be the point of admitting to it...


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

Wow, you guys are deep. I am impressed, dear sirs(?). I can't even fool you guys on the anonymous vast space of the interwebz.


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## SaiKick (Jan 4, 2011)

Tawanda said:


> Wow, you guys are deep. I am impressed, dear sirs(?). I can't even fool you guys on the anonymous vast space of the interwebz.


don't believe her. 
the sociopath is trying to mislead us again.


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## nixe (Feb 24, 2010)

This may not apply, but it seems worth mentioning in case it does.

Say you meet someone and you really click. It's amazing, almost like you've found your soul-mate or your long-lost twin or the best friend you'd always hoped was out there. The two of you just hit it off quite suddenly. You're so much alike.

Being together seems magic. The whole world is new and full of possibility but the center of everything is this new friendship and/or romance. It's something special between just the two of you, and being part of it makes you special.

After a time things get rough. Your friend/lover runs hot and cold. Increasingly cold. There's a growing distance between you and no matter how hard you try it's never enough. You're always saying the wrong thing. Even when you think things are going well you never know what's going to trigger an explosion. You're walking on eggshells.

Yet even when things are at their worst, sometimes you still find moments of joy, and it's like the sun coming out from behind the clouds. It's like there may as well have never been any clouds at all.

That is not sociopathy. It's probably borderline personality disorder, though there are other things, such as alcoholism, that can look very similar. Either of those would be consistent with strong, unstable emotions, a feeling (or fear) that one lacks emotion, and an apparently bizarre, unnecessary pattern of deception.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

nixe said:


> This may not apply, but it seems worth mentioning in case it does.
> 
> Say you meet someone and you really click. It's amazing, almost like you've found your soul-mate or your long-lost twin or the best friend you'd always hoped was out there. The two of you just hit it off quite suddenly. You're so much alike.
> 
> ...


Huh? But the thread is about APD... I don't get it.


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## SaiKick (Jan 4, 2011)

nixe said:


> After a time things get rough. Your friend/lover runs hot and cold. Increasingly cold. There's a growing distance between you and no matter how hard you try it's never enough. You're always saying the wrong thing. Even when you think things are going well you never know what's going to trigger an explosion. You're walking on eggshells.
> 
> Yet even when things are at their worst, sometimes you still find moments of joy, and it's like the sun coming out from behind the clouds. It's like there may as well have never been any clouds at all.
> 
> That is not sociopathy. It's probably borderline personality disorder, though there are other things, such as alcoholism, that can look very similar. Either of those would be consistent with strong, unstable emotions, a feeling (or fear) that one lacks emotion, and an apparently bizarre, unnecessary pattern of deception.


I'd think the situation you describe appears to be a mixture of (which are kind of mixed into BPD):

Narcissism: will always find fault with you and criticize, therefore you are always "saying the wrong thing"

BiPolar Depression: "things are at their worst, sometimes you still find moments of joy"


I dunno if you've described the situation well enough to qualify for the DSM-IV symptoms for BPD.

Plus Borderline Personality Disorder is mainly a fake disorder which was evolved from hysteria-- for which the vibrator was invented to cure hysteria in women, and also, I hear that 90% of BPD cases are female. BPD is merely a control mechanism to keep women down in this world-- make them think they're crazy and mentally unstable. Men probably observed PMS symptoms in the old days and figured something must be wrong with females. 

that being said, here are the main symptoms for the "textbook" definition:


Borderline personality disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
*The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines borderline personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1][12]*

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image and affects, as well as marked impulsivity, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5

A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., promiscuous sex, eating disorders, binge eating, substance abuse, reckless driving). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-injuring behavior covered in Criterion 5

Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, threats or self-injuring behavior such as cutting, interfering with the healing of scars (excoriation) or picking at oneself.

Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

Chronic feelings of emptiness

Inappropriate anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation, delusions or severe dissociative symptoms


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

SaiKick said:


> I'd think the situation you describe appears to be a mixture of (which are kind of mixed into BPD):
> 
> Narcissism: will always find fault with you and criticize, therefore you are always "saying the wrong thing"
> 
> ...


I would agree that I think Borderline is a little over diagnosed. It seems like anytime a sensitive woman gets a bad experience with a man and reacts with anger and hurt, when she is perfectly normal to feel that way, she get accused of having a disorder. How did we get on this topic...?


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

Ozzy10 said:


> Had a guy once grab my arm whispering every married woman has a secret. My intuition said "I have a cold heart." His eyes would sparkle like diamonds at times..


Does anonymity help a cathartic process, or is this just a great place to learn?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Waiting said:


> Does anonymity help a cathartic process, or is this just a great place to learn?


I am very confused. What is going on in this thread? What do you mean by that too now?


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

Cleo said:


> I am very confused. What is going on in this thread? What do you mean by that too now?


It was a question directed to @Ozzy10


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## Kestrel (Jun 22, 2011)

nixe said:


> This may not apply, but it seems worth mentioning in case it does.
> 
> Say you meet someone and you really click. It's amazing, almost like you've found your soul-mate or your long-lost twin or the best friend you'd always hoped was out there. The two of you just hit it off quite suddenly. You're so much alike.
> 
> ...


This is absolutely false. I've been in this kind of relationship and it was in no way an indicator of BPD, it was an indicator of sociopathy. He wasn't depressed, he barely felt anything. All those 'sun coming out from behind the clouds' moments where engineered to keep me from getting out, and the amazing feelings at the beginning when we 'really clicked' were engineered. He made me do some sick shit while I was under his spell, that one.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Kestrel said:


> This is absolutely false. I've been in this kind of relationship and it was in no way an indicator of BPD, it was an indicator of sociopathy. He wasn't depressed, he barely felt anything. All those 'sun coming out from behind the clouds' moments where engineered to keep me from getting out, and the amazing feelings at the beginning when we 'really clicked' were engineered. He made me do some sick shit while I was under his spell, that one.


Well I think someone with Borderline could do it too, and often does. Just like anyone, they can take on relationships they aren't very into, and become manipulative. They don't like you, but don't want you to leave. They can be emotionally immature, or emotionally involved, but feel extremely jaded. There are different variations. They may find ways to justify doing it, where the sociopath flat out doesn't care and even thrives off of other's pain. But I am not really interested in learning how to spot a person with Borderline, so I am still confused how this came up.


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## emerald sea (Jun 4, 2011)

go with your gut feeling on this one. if something tells you there is something just not right about this person, or that they are not safe, no matter how nice or charming they seem, listen to your gut. 

_before anyone writes me off as a mystical INFJ_, allow me to point you towards two articles (one published by the FBI, the other by Scientific American), which point out that gut feelings are an actual physical phenomenon, as well as a survival instinct that should be trusted. 

The Gift of Fear: Survival Signals that Protect Us from Violence. . - book review | FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin,The | Find Articles at BNET

Think Twice: How the Gut's "Second Brain" Influences Mood and Well-Being: Scientific American

i'm convinced that is really the only reliable way to spot a sociopath. they are just too skilled at masking their true selves to be recognized easily any other way.


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## Kestrel (Jun 22, 2011)

I've found this excellent article about identifying Sociopaths:
How to Protect Yourself from Psychopaths

More articles on Sociopathy can be found here:
Articles About Psychopaths (Also Known as Sociopaths)

It's a very good resource, and I've just finished reading through all the articles on there.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Kestrel said:


> I've found this excellent article about identifying Sociopaths:
> How to Protect Yourself from Psychopaths
> 
> More articles on Sociopathy can be found here:
> ...


The excess of flattery is a good one. I also liked what it said about them using sympathy. I noticed this guy did that a lot. I usually wont tolerate people talking so bad about others, but I tolerated it with him, because he played on my sympathy. He acted and actually was so pathetic.


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## Lady Lullaby (Jun 7, 2010)

Just reading about sociopaths makes me feel a bit vulnerable! I was always a little too easy to flatter...sadly but predictably personal experience has wised me up.


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## Mad Psychologist (Sep 17, 2011)

I was married to one.... Don't ever do THAT!!!

I could provide detailed markers...


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## funcoolname (Sep 17, 2011)

I heard that NPD was being taken out of the next DSM. I don't know how I feel about that given it's not behavior I want people to think is okay. But I guess by the time they turn 25? there isn't much to be done anyway. I was in a relationship with someone who probably was borderline narcissistic, at the very least he would twist situations in his head so that they fit how he wanted to see them and wouldn't have to genuinely take responsibility for his actions. I don't know if he's any better.. Lots of fun and very charming but long-term heartache and tons of drama. Luckily I have a better idea of the signs now, but even then I think they'd take a while to come out.. My advice would be take time to get to know them, especially if it sounds like their past has been a string of messy relationships and everything was their exes' fault.

Mad Psychologist, what are the markers?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

funcoolname said:


> I heard that NPD was being taken out of the next DSM. I don't know how I feel about that given it's not behavior I want people to think is okay. But I guess by the time they turn 25? there isn't much to be done anyway. I was in a relationship with someone who probably was borderline narcissistic, at the very least he would twist situations in his head so that they fit how he wanted to see them and wouldn't have to genuinely take responsibility for his actions. I don't know if he's any better.. Lots of fun and very charming but long-term heartache and tons of drama. Luckily I have a better idea of the signs now, but even then I think they'd take a while to come out.. My advice would be take time to get to know them, especially if it sounds like their past has been a string of messy relationships and everything was their exes' fault.
> 
> Mad Psychologist, what are the markers?


Where did you hear they were taking that out, and surely something else is replacing it or it fits in another category? Maybe those traits will be part of APD? I don't see how they could take that out, because I think there is a huge difference in someone having those narcissitic image characteristics, like myself, still being a very loving person and having great relationships, and someone with a full blown problem, having no one who gives a shit for them, because they burn everybody they know from the get go.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Mad Psychologist said:


> I was married to one.... Don't ever do THAT!!!


I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you have found people who have been able to help you recover from those feelings she gave you. I hope you received justice, in whatever way that is. I am still hoping to get mine.


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## funcoolname (Sep 17, 2011)

Narcissistic Personality Disorder No Longer in D.S.M. - NYTimes.com

Narcissistic Disorder to Be Eliminated in Diagnostic Manual - NYTimes.com

Yup, it's gone. Ahh! 

I don't really like these articles. They're describing more of Histrionic disorder, or BPD. NPD isn't about getting attention solely, it is more of a condition where person has an image of themselves that they put above their genuine relationships with other people. For example, if a narcissist has a significant other, they want their significant other to be the "type of person" that their manufactured image of themselves would be with. They have to maintain their image of being a whatever they have chosen to be (and believe they are), and can't have the other person screwing that up! Their need to have their image is more important than the feelings of others. , which is an interesting catch-22, because without their image, they feel unlovable/undeserving of love. 

Psychiatrist's blog about it here, it's really interesting!: The Last Psychiatrist: A Generational Pathology: Narcissism Is Not Grandiosity


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## donkeybals (Jan 13, 2011)

Just a little piece to contribute. As far as narcisitic people go one trait I noticed is negativity. There could be a really good vibe in the room etc, taking part in a pleasurable conversation. The narcisitic person always seems to come in with some sort of problem or some sort of negative comment. For example, you could be watching the movie uncle buck. The narcisit will go, "Oh I know this movie, John Candy is a dead guy." Just anything they take and put a damper on the mood. Or they'll go something like "I've done this for you, you won't do this for me? Don't you care about me? Do my favors mean nothing to you?" They often guilt you into do things. Additionally they'll threaten you. All they really do is put a negative spin on things and threaten you to control your actions or mood. They push the max button on blackmailing. And then spin it in a way where you are blackmailing them and how they've done certain favors for you, ones that you didn't ask them to do (for example). The charm factor kind of puts wool over outsiders eyes. But I guess the best gage would be your gut. If you didn't do anything wrong, and being around a person makes you feel sick to your stomach, a red flag should go off at that point. Just my 2 cents.


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## Mad Psychologist (Sep 17, 2011)

Sociopathic markers:

1. Manipulative... Major game players, they will use a tactic, if that doesn't work they will quickly and adroitly use another. 
2. Dishonest... They will say or do whatever is required to meet their ends.
3. Fake... They display an incongruence when dispaying emotions. A forced smile, fake laughter,etc...
4. They lack close long term friendships
5. They lack the ability to appreciate the pain they may cause others. They have very little or no remorse.
These are just a few....


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

funcoolname said:


> Narcissistic Personality Disorder No Longer in D.S.M. - NYTimes.com
> 
> Narcissistic Disorder to Be Eliminated in Diagnostic Manual - NYTimes.com
> 
> ...


I am scared to read that. Should I? Okay, here we go.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

donkeybals said:


> Just a little piece to contribute. As far as narcisitic people go one trait I noticed is negativity. There could be a really good vibe in the room etc, taking part in a pleasurable conversation. The narcisitic person always seems to come in with some sort of problem or some sort of negative comment. For example, you could be watching the movie uncle buck. The narcisit will go, "Oh I know this movie, John Candy is a dead guy." Just anything they take and put a damper on the mood. Or they'll go something like "I've done this for you, you won't do this for me? Don't you care about me? Do my favors mean nothing to you?" They often guilt you into do things. Additionally they'll threaten you. All they really do is put a negative spin on things and threaten you to control your actions or mood. They push the max button on blackmailing. And then spin it in a way where you are blackmailing them and how they've done certain favors for you, ones that you didn't ask them to do (for example). The charm factor kind of puts wool over outsiders eyes. But I guess the best gage would be your gut. If you didn't do anything wrong, and being around a person makes you feel sick to your stomach, a red flag should go off at that point. Just my 2 cents.


Spin is the perfect word. A lot of different kinds of personality disorders are capable of doing that. It used to make me so confused. It is almost like that roadrunner and cayote cartoon how they take something so simple and on target and turn it into circles. Then you are thinking how did they get to that, I just don't understand. But that is part of the ploy. They have to keep people in a confused fog, so nobody can see through.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

funcoolname said:


> Narcissistic Personality Disorder No Longer in D.S.M. - NYTimes.com
> 
> Narcissistic Disorder to Be Eliminated in Diagnostic Manual - NYTimes.com
> 
> ...


So I found an article related to that on Time's website, which said Histrionic PD is being done away with also. This is too bad, because I know someone who is Histrionic, who definately has problems with everyone around her. She makes drama out of completely thin air. I mean I am dramatic, but I don't make it up, I just locate it. She could make it out of the pancakes on the breakfast table. It's just her way of getting attention and it's so pathological. She is also innapropriate with her sexuality for attention. I am getting pissed off thinking about it. None of the other disorders fit her. I wonder how that can be addressed with the new DSM.


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## funcoolname (Sep 17, 2011)

The persons with NPD and histrionic can still receive treatment, of course, you don't need a DSM diagnosis to see a psychologist (which is what I think NPD and histrionics need more than medication), the difficulties might arise in finding insurance if they can't afford therapy. I think some insurance companies require an official diagnosis of something. Although, in the rare case that a histrionic or narcissist does actually get better, they would likely go through a period of depression, which they could be diagnosed with. I don't know that any of them would stick around that long, though.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

They've been talking about removing NPD and classifying it under APD for ages now. Personally, I think that is completely idiotic. As far as people with HPD and NPD, most therapists aren't that fond of either. People with HPD tend to be very difficult to treat and people with NPD often annoy the therapist. Also, people with NPD are generally unaware of their condition, unlike people with APD who know very well that they are different. Because of this, people with NPD generally don't seek therapy.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> They've been talking about removing NPD and classifying it under APD for ages now. Personally, I think that is completely idiotic. As far as people with HPD and NPD, most therapists aren't that fond of either. People with HPD tend to be very difficult to treat and people with NPD often annoy the therapist. Also, people with NPD are generally unaware of their condition, unlike people with APD who know very well that they are different. Because of this, people with NPD generally don't seek therapy.


I totally see what you are saying. Though I can see how NPD could fall under APD. I was previously thinking maybe they would classify it as that, because there are a lot of similar characteristics. Maybe the NPD would be considered to have traits of APD rather than the full blown disorder. There are different kinds of sociopaths though, so maybe not all would be willing to admit they are different...? I don't know, but true what you said, NPD must carry shame, which keeps them from admitting there is something wrong and I always thought an APD was incapable of shame.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

funcoolname said:


> The persons with NPD and histrionic can still receive treatment, of course, you don't need a DSM diagnosis to see a psychologist (which is what I think NPD and histrionics need more than medication), the difficulties might arise in finding insurance if they can't afford therapy. I think some insurance companies require an official diagnosis of something. Although, in the rare case that a histrionic or narcissist does actually get better, they would likely go through a period of depression, which they could be diagnosed with. I don't know that any of them would stick around that long, though.


Lord please, for the sake of everyone else, let those people be covered by insurance. Your right though, it's rare that they want to stick around and work through the problem anyway.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

Cleo said:


> I totally see what you are saying. Though I can see how NPD could fall under APD. I was previously thinking maybe they would classify it as that, because there are a lot of similar characteristics. Maybe the NPD would be considered to have traits of APD rather than the full blown disorder. There are different kinds of sociopaths though, so maybe not all would be willing to admit they are different...? I don't know, but true what you said, NPD must carry shame, which keeps them from admitting there is something wrong and I always thought an APD was incapable of shame.


The only real way that NPD and APD can be linked is a lack of empathy. People with APD completely lack empathy, people with NPD often lack empathy, what one might refer to as being "empathy challenged," but they do sometimes show genuine empathy unlike people with APD. Likewise both are fairly arrogant and selfish, but people with APD do a MUCH better job of hiding this fact. But that is where the comparisons end. Everything from their view of themselves to their MO is usually very different. Even the way they think about things. People with APD tend to be MUCH more impulsive than people with NPD. People with APD are like chameleons. They blend in perfectly and you'd never know that you're dealing with one, whereas people with NPD generally stick out quite a bit. The only people with NPD that usually have some type of awareness about their situation are Compensatory Narcissists, the rest tend to be blissfully unaware. On the other hand virtually all sociopaths know that they are different. This is a good example from Sociopath World...

Narcissist wolf says to everyone: "I'm a sheep, I'm a sheep, I'm in the sheep club. The sheep are the best. Those wolves are terrible. You have to be a special sheep to be in the high-wool club like me. If you don't believe I'm a sheep then you are calling me a liar. I was only eating meat because my boss made me do it. I was howling at the moon because you made me angry. I have always been a sheep. You are paranoid, I don't have canine teeth. You are imagining it. I'm a sheep. I won best sheep of the year award. We have to be on the look out for SueTarget. She's a wolf in sheeps' clothing. I am the one that did all the work. SueTarget messed it all up. SueTargets's fur looks fake. I'm the biggest sheep so I should be the boss. I have every right to punish SueTarget and eat her. It will be good for her, and teach her a lesson. I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for the team. I have to be the enforcer here and eat bad sheeps to help keep society clean. I used to be a vegetarian but because all these lazy sheep won't do anything, I am forced into keeping order and forced into being the bad guy and have to do all the eating of sheep."​Sociopath wolf says: "Become the sheep. Believe you are the sheep. Keep the wolf hidden. Don't act like a narcissist and don't try to "talk your way". Become the sheep. Do sheep things. Behave like sheep. No one will see the wolf. Baa baa baa. Eat grass for a while. Give up meat for a while. Tell the sheep things that will make them feel good about themselves. Gain their trust. Be humble. Make them the center of attention. Get them to lower their defenses. Tell them you lost your teeth in a car accident and your parents could only afford wolf-teeth replacements. Keep past a secret so they don't research. Let them do all the talking. Then when the time is right, devour! It is worth the sacrifice and the wait. Then on a polygraph when they ask if I am a sheep, I will have all the sheep memories because I became a sheep. I have memories of eating grass and living like a sheep. I'm telling the truth."​


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## Mad Psychologist (Sep 17, 2011)

Cleo said:


> Where did you hear they were taking that out, and surely something else is replacing it or it fits in another category? Maybe those traits will be part of APD? I don't see how they could take that out, because I think there is a huge difference in someone having those narcissitic image characteristics, like myself, still being a very loving person and having great relationships, and someone with a full blown problem, having no one who gives a shit for them, because they burn everybody they know from the get go.


Ok, Who changed the subject?? What does facetious mean?


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## Mad Psychologist (Sep 17, 2011)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> The only real way that NPD and APD can be linked is a lack of empathy. People with APD completely lack empathy, people with NPD often lack empathy, what one might refer to as being "empathy challenged," but they do sometimes show genuine empathy unlike people with APD. Likewise both are fairly arrogant and selfish, but people with APD do a MUCH better job of hiding this fact. But that is where the comparisons end. Everything from their view of themselves to their MO is usually very different. Even the way they think about things. People with APD tend to be MUCH more impulsive than people with NPD. People with APD are like chameleons. They blend in perfectly and you'd never know that you're dealing with one, whereas people with NPD generally stick out quite a bit. The only people with NPD that usually have some type of awareness about their situation are Compensatory Narcissists, the rest tend to be blissfully unaware. On the other hand virtually all sociopaths know that they are different. This is a good example from Sociopath World...
> 
> Narcissist wolf says to everyone: "I'm a sheep, I'm a sheep, I'm in the sheep club. The sheep are the best. Those wolves are terrible. You have to be a special sheep to be in the high-wool club like me. If you don't believe I'm a sheep then you are calling me a liar. I was only eating meat because my boss made me do it. I was howling at the moon because you made me angry. I have always been a sheep. You are paranoid, I don't have canine teeth. You are imagining it. I'm a sheep. I won best sheep of the year award. We have to be on the look out for SueTarget. She's a wolf in sheeps' clothing. I am the one that did all the work. SueTarget messed it all up. SueTargets's fur looks fake. I'm the biggest sheep so I should be the boss. I have every right to punish SueTarget and eat her. It will be good for her, and teach her a lesson. I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for the team. I have to be the enforcer here and eat bad sheeps to help keep society clean. I used to be a vegetarian but because all these lazy sheep won't do anything, I am forced into keeping order and forced into being the bad guy and have to do all the eating of sheep."​Sociopath wolf says: "Become the sheep. Believe you are the sheep. Keep the wolf hidden. Don't act like a narcissist and don't try to "talk your way". Become the sheep. Do sheep things. Behave like sheep. No one will see the wolf. Baa baa baa. Eat grass for a while. Give up meat for a while. Tell the sheep things that will make them feel good about themselves. Gain their trust. Be humble. Make them the center of attention. Get them to lower their defenses. Tell them you lost your teeth in a car accident and your parents could only afford wolf-teeth replacements. Keep past a secret so they don't research. Let them do all the talking. Then when the time is right, devour! It is worth the sacrifice and the wait. Then on a polygraph when they ask if I am a sheep, I will have all the sheep memories because I became a sheep. I have memories of eating grass and living like a sheep. I'm telling the truth."​


Just a thought; Less is more and more is less.... Good content by the way!


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

They always tell rediculous jokes that aren't funny at all, but they think they are being so cute. Like this one guy I knew who was kissing his muscles in front of me. I was like that looks rediculous and it's not cute. Then you tell a joke that could make people fall on the floor and roll around laughing and they just stand there with a blank face.


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## Cover3 (Feb 2, 2011)

In USSR, psychopaths spot YOU.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Cover3 said:


> In USSR, psychopaths spot YOU.


I figure anywhere they spot you, but what is USSR?


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

If someone is very charming and doesn't keep their promises, that someone is probably a sociopath.


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## Kazuma Ikezawa (Oct 21, 2011)

I've always wanted to meet a psychopath.......


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Lmessi24 said:


> I've always wanted to meet a psychopath.......


No you don't and you probably have. Once you get to know them, they suck the life out of you before you even realize it happening.


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## IceCube (Oct 15, 2010)

Cover3 said:


> In USSR, psychopaths spot YOU.


How and why there and not in other places ?


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## Cover3 (Feb 2, 2011)

IceCube said:


> How and why there and not in other places ?


In most of countries you go to other places...


In USSR, other places come to you.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

I just look around and take note of the faces in my Bed Wetting, Arson and Animal Mutilation Support Group.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

They prey on weakness and insecurity, by exploiting peoples needs. If someone is telling you exactly what you want to hear, then you need to be skeptical. As a general rule: Don't trust anyone fully, because it's this tendency to trust that they will use for their own ends.

I should add, that even over the internet they can do very real damage. They can psychologically ravage you under the pretense of 'revealing who you really are'. Many of them have an odd window into your fears, worries, and anxieties. They can read it between the lines.

But you shouldn't be concerned about it. Just remember: don't trust anyone a hundred percent. Everyone has a hidden agenda.


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## Kazuma Ikezawa (Oct 21, 2011)

Cleo said:


> No you don't and you probably have. Once you get to know them, they suck the life out of you before you even realize it happening.


Now that you mentioned it, I've suspected that one of my "friends" might be a psychopath. What do you mean by suck the life out of you?


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Lmessi24 said:


> Now that you mentioned it, I've suspected that one of my "friends" might be a psychopath. What do you mean by suck the life out of you?


If you are a feeler like me, you can just feel all the tension in your life from them constantly adding one problem after the other. It's confusing though, because they are often so charming, you don't see them hurting you, you just feel hurt. But if you really look at all of their excuses with an objective perspective you can see how shallow their responses are to your complaints. That is what you have to stick with, because you can't keep getting upset with how they don't care. They just don't have that ability.


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## IceCube (Oct 15, 2010)

I think their mind works in this way:
If I say or do this, he'll say or do that or feel like this. That's what I want. What do I do or say to get the reaction I want ? Maybe if I say this or do that (tries it). Did he reacted like I wanted ? Yes, ok good ! No ? Lets try something else...
After some time they have a repertoire of what to do or say to get certain reactions.
If he learns how to make you feel good, it will be used to enforce desired behaviour. What makes you feel bad will be used to eliminate unwanted behaviour (like critical questions, the person will make you feel bad when asking critical questions for example).
You'll feel so good when you agree with a sociopath, like you never felt before 
And so on ...


Well, I don't know for you, but I would be exhausted if someone treated me that way. Almost like a puppet!


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

IceCube said:


> I think their mind works in this way:
> If I say or do this, he'll say or do that or feel like this. That's what I want. What do I do or say to get the reaction I want ? Maybe if I say this or do that (tries it). Did he reacted like I wanted ? Yes, ok good ! No ? Lets try something else...
> After some time they have a repertoire of what to do or say to get certain reactions.
> If he learns how to make you feel good, it will be used to enforce desired behaviour. What makes you feel bad will be used to eliminate unwanted behaviour (like critical questions, the person will make you feel bad when asking critical questions for example).
> ...


Yes you got it! That has to do with sucking the life out of you. Like you are being puppeted so where you are thinking everything is going a certain way, but you keep getting nothing.


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## Michael82 (Dec 13, 2010)

Cleo said:


> They can be so good at faking emotions and blending in.


I wouldn't worry about avoiding them though. Once you know someone's got these issues you know what you're dealing with


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## Kazuma Ikezawa (Oct 21, 2011)

From my experience with someone that I think is a psychopath, when they're pushing your buttons/ tormenting you, the person not only enjoys it but they enjoy the fact that they've found a weakness, its like they know exactly how bad you are feeling. They take pride in finding weaknesses.



IceCube said:


> I think their mind works in this way:
> If I say or do this, he'll say or do that or feel like this. That's what I want. What do I do or say to get the reaction I want ? Maybe if I say this or do that (tries it). Did he reacted like I wanted ? Yes, ok good ! No ? Lets try something else...
> After some time they have a repertoire of what to do or say to get certain reactions.
> If he learns how to make you feel good, it will be used to enforce desired behaviour. What makes you feel bad will be used to eliminate unwanted behaviour (like critical questions, the person will make you feel bad when asking critical questions for example).
> ...


So is that pretty much the m.o of most psychopaths?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Okay I'm starting to suspect that someone I know could potentially, possibly have ASPD. I'm kind of freaked out by this realization, because I thought I was good at avoiding them.

I am typically good at avoiding true psychopaths (like I can think of one) because they're just creepy. Something is wrong or off in their eyes, their cruelty is evident. Psychopaths actually have something wrong in their brain chemistry. 

This person, I now know, has a history of adolescent violence. It's odd because when I met him he projected this aura of goodwill, calm, and kindness. 

However, when I started sleeping with him I slowly began to realize that he was aggressive, and just would kind of take what he wanted. For example, he walked into my room one night while I was sleeping and got into bed with me. At the time I thought it was sexy, and now I'm wondering if I should have allowed it, because basically it was telling him it was okay to not have boundaries with me. 

He can be very charming and friendly, but acts very surly and irresponsible. I noticed a great deal of antipathy toward taking responsibility for things, or even NOT feeling guilty or sorry for things (not toward me) ...but I thought maybe he was being immature, male, and having Fe inferior. 

The longer I was with him, the more I would have to correct him to not be so rough with me sexually like seriously "HEY don't do that" kind of thing. But he would correct it, it's not like he would continue hurting me, it just seemed odd to me that the impulse was in him to be so frequently rough and aggressive. 

His mother started telling me that he was "highly impulsive" and "doesn't think" and I just thought "oh young Se."

I kept making excuses for him, I think. Until he started getting more and more comfortable with basically being a dominating jerk, at which point I cut him off. When I cut him off, he started looking at me with outright HATE in his eyes. At this point, he also owed me money that he had manipulated me into giving him to fix his tooth, which I presume now he never intends to pay back, but believed he would at the time.

His mother went on to inform me that he is an extremely manipulative person, would take Christmas presents she had given him in high school and sell them and get the money for things to give to his girlfriends, and that he tossed two cinderblocks through her windows when he was 16. 

Today he got into a fight with his mother, destroyed some of her property, and told her that he wanted to stab her. 

I cannot determine at this juncture if he actually feels guilt for this behavior or not, but I feel like I should have been more alert to his deviant behavior while I was sleeping with him, that I shouldn't have made excuses because of his being in his late teens, or because he's apparently an ISTP. 

If he does feel guilt for his behavior, I will consider the possibility that he's possibly bipolar and currently in a manic phase.

Otherwise, I'm fairly convinced he has the deceptive charm and manipulation of a person with Antisocial Personality Disorder (as opposed to clinical psychopathy).


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Cleo said:


> But aren't narcissists capable of having emotional attachments? I know they can be cold, but this guy had absolutely not emotional attachment to me after we were close. It was so bazaar. I have never seen anything like it. I also saw something a little sadistic in him. Just a hint of it. He watched my reactions when he asked me to do things. He wanted to see what he could get me to do, even if he didn't want to do it. I kept telling him no and then as the night went by I would give in a little more and a little more, and then he would say no.
> 
> Before we got to his house I told him I shouldn't go there and I shouldn't be drinking around him and that I don't ever do that. By our conversations he knows I am very modest and that I have done so well at sticking to my values. I have a feeling that the determining factor of whether he would keep talking to me relied on how far he could get me to go. Like maybe he has a deep hatred there for women or women who give in. It was like a game to him. He wasn't honest about why he didn't want to keep going either. He kept changing his story on why. At the same time though, he was so kind to me and took me to breakfast and wanted to keep talking. I am so confused. I feel so violated. Or maybe he just wanted somone better than me. This has made me feel so bad that it literally makes my whole body hurt.


I know this is an old post from last year, but don't let yourself feel this bad about a sociopath not caring about you. I don't think they ever make you feel fully cared for in the first place.

In my experience, it has hurt me more when a guy has invested a great deal of time into me and demonstrated caring in multiple non-sexual, supportive ways...and then walks away from me, or hurts me so badly that I'm forced to walk away from him. 

In my current situation, for example, where I think my...friend?...may have ASPD, I was really angry at first, and confused....but I noticed that internally I don't at all feel the sense of loss that I had with a couple of other men who I realize I felt much closer to emotionally and mentally.

In my case I just can't believe I kept making excuses for this person because of his age. I also never would have expected it because his heightened level of calm (which ironically is a trait they have, because they really don't give a crap) when he's not angry, and even his ability to charm and mediate.

In my case, I actually don't want to believe it is ASPD but I don't know what else it could be, unless he has severe bipolar disorder. Sometimes men with bipolar disorder are more violent or aggressive than women, and it can cause people to act in very odd ways and do shocking things they wouldn't regularly do if they weren't manic. 

I hate that I'm even questioning ANYONE again, though, after having a six year relationship with someone who had Borderline Personality Disorder. At least in that case the person deeply cared for me and loved me, for all of his sickness.

I'm starting to wonder about *myself* and if I have the ability to pick men at all.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

yaintj said:


> Socipaths are not so supersmart like always presented. Actually any disorder will make its carrier dummier. They just fake and people are so natural with communication and very blue-eyed.


Not so. Ted Bundy was super-duper smart.

However, the common guy with ASPD goes to jail frequently (prisons are full of men with ASPD), and is kind of unruly and violent and impulsive, yet charming and alluring. 

I think we're talking about two different, things, though. I read in a criminal psych book they separate the psychopaths as having something organically wrong with their brain, and people with ASPD as having a behavioral problem rooted in childhood/family. 

I think it's a mistake to presume that all people with ASPD have high Fe and abuse it, and are also possessors of extraordinary IQs.

I think people with ASPD can range from below average intelligence to above average intelligence. I would think the average guy with ASPD (I say guy, because they're usually male) is clever and street-smart and manipulative and so forth, but not necessarily a genius, or Patrick Bateman from _American Psycho _who more likely was an ESFJ with clinical psychopathy.


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## Kestrel (Jun 22, 2011)

@fourtines

Trust your instincts. Run the other way.

Someone who looks at you with hate in his eyes and has hurled bricks through his mother's window is not someone you want to be involved with. I agree that he definitely sounds like a sociopath, but even if he isn't, I don't think an alternative diagnosis is anywhere near as relevant as the fact that you shouldn't feel safe around him.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> @fourtines
> 
> Trust your instincts. Run the other way.
> 
> Someone who looks at you with hate in his eyes and has hurled bricks through his mother's window is not someone you want to be involved with. I agree that he definitely sounds like a sociopath, but even if he isn't, I don't think an alternative diagnosis is anywhere near as relevant as the fact that you shouldn't feel safe around him.


I agree. Any man who has an intense love/hate relationship with his mother isn't going to have a healthy relationship with a woman any time soon, if ever. I mean "I wish I could stab you, I want to stab you" does not bode well at all. I think the aggression I picked up from him is a deep anger he carries toward his mother possibly, and probably projects on to every woman he's involved with. He wants to be loved and accepted to replace whatever hurt he feels toward his mother, if he feels she rejected him on some level, yet cannot get past the _profound anger _of being hurt and rejected. 

Whether he's got ASPD or not, clearly I should not be involved with him.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

fourtines said:


> I agree. Any man who has an intense love/hate relationship with his mother isn't going to have a healthy relationship with a woman any time soon, if ever. I mean "I wish I could stab you, I want to stab you" does not bode well at all. I think the aggression I picked up from him is a deep anger he carries toward his mother possibly, and probably projects on to every woman he's involved with. He wants to be loved and accepted to replace whatever hurt he feels toward his mother, if he feels she rejected him on some level, yet cannot get past the _profound anger _of being hurt and rejected.
> 
> Whether he's got ASPD or not, clearly I should not be involved with him.


I resent that.
Slightly.
Well, not really. But I guess we can still pretend.


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