# Schizoid Personality Disorder fits better than any MBTI Definition



## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

Anhedonic Lake said:


> A narcissistic schizoid sounds like an oxymoron to me.


Why is that? I think you can be a narcissistic schizoid.


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## Anhedonic Lake (May 9, 2010)

conscius said:


> Why is that? I think you can be a narcissistic schizoid.


I really find it difficult to understand how this could be so. NPDs,like avoidants,have a very strong ego/sense of self. SPDs lack this. The main reason is NPDs live for narcissistic supply. A SPD however is anhedonic and indifferent to praise or criticism so there's no need or capacity for narcissitic supply.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

My degree in psych was not focused on personality disorders so I'm just speculating...you might be more educated than me in this area....

I think you can be both, and here's my reasoning.

I think the common conception of narcissistic personality disorder is formulated on people's relation to others, so some level of caring about what others think would be necessary. And I'm not sure if the schizoid appearance of indifference to other people's views and opinions, praise, criticism, etc, is not just an appearance. I mean, at the subconscious level, there may be a sense of concern over these things but it's rarely expressed. Humans are social animals so I'm not sure if people with this personality disorder are as indifferent as they seem or proclaim.

But the main reason I think one can have both is that indifference or simply not caring about others can be narcissistic. It depends on how entitled a schizoid really feels. You can do your own thing and not care as an employee or you can do your own thing and not care as a boss. Our actions have consequences. So a schizoid can exploit others, feel entitled, and have a haughty attitude as can an antisocial or borderline or whatever. 

And of course, in DSM there is no rule that says the two diagnoses are mutually exculsive.


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## Anhedonic Lake (May 9, 2010)

conscius said:


> I think the common conception of narcissistic personality disorder is formulated on people's relation to others, so some level of caring about what others think would be necessary. And I'm not sure if the schizoid appearance of indifference to other people's views and opinions, praise, criticism, etc, is not just an appearance.


I believe the indifference to praise/criticism is predicated by a lack capacity to recognise their own emotions and anhedonia. 



conscius said:


> I mean, at the subconscious level, there may be a sense of concern over these things but it's rarely expressed. Humans are social animals so I'm not sure if people with this personality disorder are as indifferent as they seem or proclaim.


Well one of the main issues of SPD is the lack of emotions. I've known an officially diagnosed schizoid, it took him two years to get an official diagnosis, claim he was close to suicide due to existential depression. He reported feeling zombified and life was like a grey canvass.



conscius said:


> But the main reason I think one can have both is that indifference or simply not caring about others can be narcissistic. It depends on how entitled a schizoid really feels. You can do your own thing and not care as an employee or you can do your own thing and not care as a boss. Our actions have consequences. So a schizoid can exploit others, feel entitled, and have a haughty attitude as can an antisocial or borderline or whatever. .


I'm not sure why a schizoid would bother to exploit others or have a haughty attitude. For what gain? If you're pervasively anhedonic then it's pointless and pervasively indifferent and have issues recognising your own emotions then it's pointless. Also schizoids tend to lack a drive to do things,which again is predicated by the anhedonia-which is the core disordering trait. Some SPDs have argued that once the umbrella term schizoid was broken up into avoidant,schizotypal and schizoid the latter should have been renamed anhedonic personality disorder. I'm inclined to agree.


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## Angel1412kaitou (Mar 30, 2010)

*1. Emotional coldness, detachment or reduced affection.*
2. Limited capacity to express either positive or negative emotions towards others.
*3. Consistent preference for solitary activities.
4. Very few, if any, close friends or relationships, and a lack of desire for such.*
5. Indifference to either praise or criticism.
*6. Taking pleasure in few, if any, activities.
7. Indifference to social norms and conventions.
8. Preoccupation with fantasy and introspection.
9. Lack of desire for sexual experiences with another person*

Wow, maybe I'm schizoid. A year ago I had all the symptoms, but this year I only have 7. The article sounds just like me, grey.


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## Kevinaswell (May 6, 2009)

My University developed that test!!!

Wooo! U of M fuckers are damn good at brains. And science. <3.

Anyhow, it's a pretty badass test.

And I am not the least bit surprised on your comparison of results.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

Anhedonic Lake said:


> I'm not sure why a schizoid would bother to exploit others or have a haughty attitude. For what gain? If you're pervasively anhedonic then it's pointless and pervasively indifferent and have issues recognising your own emotions then it's pointless. Also schizoids tend to lack a drive to do things,which again is predicated by the anhedonia-which is the core disordering trait. Some SPDs have argued that once the umbrella term schizoid was broken up into avoidant,schizotypal and schizoid the latter should have been renamed anhedonic personality disorder. I'm inclined to agree.


You say "I'm not sure why a schizoid would..." There is a person behind the personality disorder. It is a person who would be narcissistic AND schizoid. That person CAN manipulate others to get what we all want and need. The most essential human needs and desires don't change. A schizoid is not a robot. He is certainly more indifferent to others' opinions but that doesn't mean there is nothing in the world he wants or needs.

They don't enjoy life as much as some of us but they can feel entitled and exploitative too. You are using the Freudian view that we do everything for pleasure. Then you essentially say they get NO pleasure from life at all. So why manipulate others or feel entitled to anything at all? So should we expect them all to commit suicide? First they do obtain pleasure but much less than the rest. Secondly, people do things for reasons other than pleasure. Sometimes it's out of fear. People with narcissistic personality disorder, for instance, have a fragile ego so fear might play a role in their manipulativeness, as least the covert narcissistics. 

Also, I'm curious. Are you schizoid yourself? You seem to have spoken to many SPDs and read up on the subject but you have not mentioned if you have any qualifications. I am impressed by your knowledge.


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## SquarePeg61 (Mar 26, 2010)

Doctor Paradox said:


> I dislike 90% of people on earth if not more.


I thought I was the only one on earth who could truthfully make that claim! :laughing:


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## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

so would it be possible for a schizoid to actually make a suicide attempt? Like I've never really cared enough to want to kill myself but at the same time I don't really care enough to keep myself alive either. But lack of emotion should mean lack of depression to wouldn't it? So to try to kill yourself because your depressed would seem to contradict the schizoid personality


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## Anhedonic Lake (May 9, 2010)

RighteousRob said:


> so would it be possible for a schizoid to actually make a suicide attempt? Like I've never really cared enough to want to kill myself but at the same time I don't really care enough to keep myself alive either. But lack of emotion should mean lack of depression to wouldn't it? So to try to kill yourself because your depressed would seem to contradict the schizoid personality


 
There's several manifestations of depression. The type of depression a schizoid would have would be existential depression. When they say a personality disorder is flexible and pervasive it's ment in the sense of being that personality 99% of the time. Once in a blue moon it is possible for an avoidant to think to themselves "Maybe I don't suck" or a narcissist to think to themselves "Maybe I'm not all that" but they'll revert to their personality disorder very quickly.

In the case of a schizoid they may go through a rare period of feeling emotions such as anguish. And like the clinically depressed person this would be where they're at most risk for suicide,because they have some degree of energy.


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## Anhedonic Lake (May 9, 2010)

conscius said:


> You say "I'm not sure why a schizoid would..." There is a person behind the personality disorder. It is a person who would be narcissistic AND schizoid. That person CAN manipulate others to get what we all want and need. The most essential human needs and desires don't change. A schizoid is not a robot. He is certainly more indifferent to others' opinions but that doesn't mean there is nothing in the world he wants or needs.


I can't see that point in pursuing something if there's no reward for it. I believe this is where a schizoids apathy and existential depression originates from.



conscius said:


> They don't enjoy life as much as some of us but they can feel entitled and exploitative too. You are using the Freudian view that we do everything for pleasure. Then you essentially say they get NO pleasure from life at all. So why manipulate others or feel entitled to anything at all? So should we expect them all to commit suicide? First they do obtain pleasure but much less than the rest. Secondly, people do things for reasons other than pleasure. Sometimes it's out of fear. People with narcissistic personality disorder, for instance, have a fragile ego so fear might play a role in their manipulativeness, as least the covert narcissistics.


I'm not sure what's wrong with the view that our actions are predicated by pleasure and avoiding pain. Even seemingly altruistic acts are not without their rewards,i.e. the feel good factor. Well, to me a schizoid and a narccistic are polarised due to the fact that npds have a fragile ego-too fragile,hence the defense mechanism. While schizoids are hypo sensitive. It's not that they don't have emotions full stop,it's that they have a severely diminished capacity to recognise emotions. So a schizoid would not feel the pain of narccistic decompensation or an avoidants self loathing due to rejection.



conscius said:


> Also, I'm curious. Are you schizoid yourself? You seem to have spoken to many SPDs and read up on the subject but you have not mentioned if you have any qualifications. I am impressed by your knowledge.


I'm dysthimic- possibly an undiagnosed,high functioning avoidant- ,which shares some symptoms of SPD(dysthimia that is),but I'm not schizoid.(I've a far too strong "F" to be that.) Thank you for the compliment. I'm a high level academic in humanities but I've no qualification in psychology. I did a little but like yourself I was dissapointed that there was not enough emphasis on abnormal psychology,so I went down another route. It was probably a mistake as I would have like to have wrote a thesis on personality disorders.


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## Sylvia123 (Jan 21, 2016)

This is what I think SPD is.

It is a sense that you were born a slightly different, and a more evolved, form of humananoid. You seem human, but you know inside you are not quite like most other humans. Almost like a different species. And you know, probably a superior species.

So imagine yourself, a normal person, being born into a group of apes. You would have all the signs of having SPD. You are not interested in the social norms of the apes. You don't care about their praise or their criticism. You are not interested in being the most popular ape. Or having the best ape career. You know inside, through just common sense, that you are smarter and superior to these groups of apes that you happened to have found yourself born into. You do get lonely, but you retreat to an inner life, because you know, making more ape friends is not going to help you. You have a sex drive, but you are not all that interested in forming attachments to opposite sex apes. You've even tried a few times, but it always predictably ends in disaster. The apes have a very primitive way of interacting, often disloyal and competitive and violent ways. And since they sense you are different, and maybe suspect you are superior, they always gang up and turn on you. So you realize, best to stay away from these apes as much as you can.

So the problem is not with the schizoid. It is not a psychological disorder. The problem is the mismatch between the schizoid and his or her social group. Schizoids are superior people, surrounded by inferior people. And there is not much to be done about it.


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