# Fi mind vs Ni mind



## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

How does an Fi-dom's mind process or function differently from an Ni-dom's when they think?


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## Bardo (Dec 4, 2012)

Ni is a perceiving function, Fi is a judgement function.


Ni doesn't measure things against a personal value system, it doesn't make judgements. It's like the sensing functions, a perception function.
Unlike the sensing functions is it's abstraction, the tiny 4th Se of Ni doms basically uses a physical detail as launch platform to instantly fly off into Ni space as quickly as possible.

So we would get irrational insights and see patterns that aren't necessarily ethical or practical, then a judgement function would have to be like 'no, can't do that, that would be bad.'. 



It seems to me that judgement functions go tick tock and perception functions hum.


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## Hal Jordan Prime (Dec 13, 2012)

Yet it's completely funny how I find Ni doms to be more "judgmental" (in colloquial terms) than Fi doms who tend to be just... chill. And accepting. 

I think auxiliary functions have a lot to do with this kind of behaviour


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## Bardo (Dec 4, 2012)

puer_aeternus said:


> Yet it's completely funny how I find Ni doms to be more "judgmental" (in colloquial terms) than Fi doms who tend to be just... chill. And accepting.
> 
> I think auxiliary functions have a lot to do with this kind of behaviour


Yes, my first judging function is extroverted so it's what people see. The P-dom is introverted and so I am introverted most of the time.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

puer_aeternus said:


> Yet it's completely funny how I find Ni doms to be more "judgmental" (in colloquial terms) than Fi doms who tend to be just... chill. And accepting.
> 
> I think auxiliary functions have a lot to do with this kind of behaviour


Definitely. Since Ni dominant types have an extroverted judgment function as their auxiliary, they come across as more judgmental and "rough", so to speak. Having your first extroverted function be a perceiving function gives you a much 'cooler' demeanor.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

puer_aeternus said:


> Yet it's completely funny how I find Ni doms to be more "judgmental" (in colloquial terms) than Fi doms who tend to be just... chill. And accepting.
> 
> I think auxiliary functions have a lot to do with this kind of behaviour


Not necessarily. You may never be aware of an Fi doms judgements as it's of an introverted orientation. Don't be fooled. And not all Fi doms are necessarily chill and accepting, not if their acceptance causes incongruence with their values. Fi can also be very unaccepting.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

Bardo said:


> Ni is a perceiving function, Fi is a judgement function.
> 
> 
> Ni doesn't measure things against a personal value system, it doesn't make judgements. It's like the sensing functions, a perception function.
> ...


I can't really perceive how my mind work at any time. I always wonder how often I am judging things or "measure things against a personal value system," which is not a very accurate description to me but I can't come up with a better one, so. I feel like I do that all the time but I don't really trust myself on this.

It's hard for me to imagine people who don't at all judge things according to a certain criteria. So I guess an Ni dom make judgment or make decisions by his Fe/Te. To me Te/Fe always involve speaking out and have sort of an authoritative feeling to them. So how does it work when your decision don't really involve anyone else, when it is very solitary and you don't really need to speak up?

How do things go in your brain? I mean how can you do any thinking without judging it along the way? Like if you are trying to decide whether abortion is right or wrong, you just have to make various intellectual choices and judgment along the thinking process before you can get to an answer, even if you eventually decide that there is nothing right or wrong in abortion, right?

So if you do judge things along the way through Te/Fe, and you are still a Ni dom, wouldn't that be kind of weird and oxymoronic, since you guys are supposed to be perceivers?

Last but not least, if I am right about Ni dom often involve Te/Fe when they think, does it mean that INxJs tend to be more reserved and solitary than IxxPs, Ti/Fi dom? As a Fi+Se sometimes I have impulse to do things because of my Se, but Te/Fe as judging functions might not involve anyone else. Or are you guys actually more outgoing than the IPs because I imagine Te/Fe are more likely to involve people than Se/Ne do when it comes to introverts? 

I don't want to say I'm not judgmental, because I really don't know. But when I interact with the outside world and talk to people I try not to be judgmental unless things piss me off or are strongly against my personal belief. Then I might act mean or judgmental, which is quite rare. I usually process things throughout in my mind with my Fi before I speak up or make decisions.

(I am not really pre-determining how you guys think. I'm just writing all my thoughts down in one post for everyone's convenience.)


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

How does this:



uncertain said:


> I don't want to say I'm not judgmental, because I really don't know. But when I interact with the outside world and talk to people* I try not to be judgmental unless things piss me off or are strongly against my personal belief.* Then I might act mean or judgmental, which is quite rare. *I usually process things throughout in my mind with my Fi before I speak up or make decisions.*


not answer this:



uncertain said:


> *I always wonder how often I am judging things or "measure things against a personal value system,"* which is not a very accurate description to me but I can't come up with a better one, so. I feel like I do that all the time but I don't really trust myself on this.


??


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

PaladinX said:


> How does this:
> not answer this:
> ??


Thanks for that. The overall answer is I don't have an accurate description of how my mind really works. It's just kind of ridiculous to me if my mind measure things every second, or if it "perceive" all the time without measuring, like Ni-doms.

When I say "I try not to be judgmental" I refer to my action and the words coming out of my mouth, not necessarily what's going on in my mind. Then I _act_ judgmental when it goes strongly against my personal belief, which I can just know without thinking too much, and this is probably my Ni affecting me.

I process things quite thoroughly before I act. The relatively "non-judgmental" outcome comes after me thinking things throughout. A lot of times I try to consider other people's perspective, to analyze why they say or do this and that, also to analyze my own thoughts, etc. The result is usually that "there is nothing absolutely right or wrong here," or "no one is really justified here," or "it would be bad for me to say so, or not helpful." A lot of time I also feel like I don't really have the right to be judgmental or to tell people what to do because I am flawed in many different ways.

When I was younger, I was very quick to judge. When I grow older I develop the ability to halt myself, "Wait a minute, it's bad to judge so quick."

I phrase it quite badly, sorry.


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## Bardo (Dec 4, 2012)

uncertain said:


> It's hard for me to imagine people who don't at all judge things according to a certain criteria. So I guess an Ni dom make judgment or make decisions by his Fe/Te. To me Te/Fe always involve speaking out and have sort of an authoritative feeling to them. So how does it work when your decision don't really involve anyone else, when it is very solitary and you don't really need to speak up?
> 
> How do things go in your brain? I mean how can you do any thinking without judging it along the way? Like if you are trying to decide whether abortion is right or wrong, you just have to make various intellectual choices and judgment along the thinking process before you can get to an answer, even if you eventually decide that there is nothing right or wrong in abortion, right?


Yes I have to make judgements along the way, but I would spend a whole lot more time between judgements. 

Take the abortion issue, first I might try and reach a global perspective, maybe think about differences of nations, take into account mass psychological or perhaps political angles, all kinds of stuff. 

No one is around to Fe towards, but I would be steering the big picture with group values in mind. 'It would be better for people to...' 'This treats the individual responsibility of people like...' 

The main thing is Ni, the picture expands and expands. Different contexts of information are thought about. A big question like abortion would really get me spinning.





uncertain said:


> Last but not least, if I am right about Ni dom often involve Te/Fe when they think, does it mean that INxJs tend to be more reserved and solitary than IxxPs, Ti/Fi dom? As a Fi+Se sometimes I have impulse to do things because of my Se, but Te/Fe as judging functions might not involve anyone else. Or are you guys actually more outgoing than the IPs because I imagine Te/Fe are more likely to involve people than Se/Ne do when it comes to introverts?


I've met some quite outgoing, basically normal IxxPs of each type and some really quiet ones. With INxJs I think we mostly tend to be very quiet regardless of confidence levels.
Ni can take a long ass time, like 10-20 minutes sometimes, so we tend to be doing that a lot when other people would be finished and talking. Also small topics can make us go off the deep end, if someone was talking about their love life I might be analyzing their view on the subject rather than the subject, or it might send me off thinking about the depiction of love & relationship in our media and how it warps real world relationships.



uncertain said:


> I don't want to say I'm not judgmental, because I really don't know. But when I interact with the outside world and talk to people I try not to be judgmental unless things piss me off or are strongly against my personal belief. Then I might act mean or judgmental, which is quite rare. I usually process things throughout in my mind with my Fi before I speak up or make decisions.


If I could, I would basically be telling people what they should be doing all the time. I don't because people don't like to be lectured and commanded about everything all the time, but I would. 

I think nearly all people do almost everything wrong, no one lines things up their actions with the big picture or as far into the future as Ni doms do, it's the least represented function in the population and so steers the population very little in their general behavior. We collectively pay for it hard.

To me it's like people can only see 2 feet in front of them. I'm sure it's not natural to be such a stress head, but then I'm sure there isn't supposed to be such a dramatic difference in type distribution causing these imbalances.


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## human (Dec 23, 2010)

I can see these differences in my family. Of course, my observations could be all wrong because they are only from my own experience. I don't want to make hasty generalizations!

-Ni dom is not necessarily always aware of his/her own feelings
-Ni dom does not necessarily relate experiences or information to own values and feelings
-Fi dom usually relates experiences and information to own values and feelings
-Fi dom is naturally aware of his/her own feelings, even if they are not expressed or acted upon


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

I look at it something like this: Ni is a general/broad collection of data. Fi checks data for consistency with an interpersonal/impassioned slant. 

What this means is that Ni-doms spend most of their time pulling out data and Fi-doms spend most of their time checking if new data is congruent with existing data. 

So the Ni-dom - other functions aside - is just sort of going to throw out (or internalize) broad stuff and hope for the best. The Fi-dom, on the other hand - other functions aside - is going to constantly react to new data. I'd imagine that if the data you input to an Fi-dom is congruent with their existing data, they will be incredibly chill. If, however, your data conflicts, you will likely see the claws come out.

Ni-dom has the same potential to be chill, but due to the functions that closely follow, it's easy to hit a trigger of some kind.

Side note: I've seen the same sort of visceral reaction from Ti users if you present new data that conflicts with existing data on a factual, detailed level. Ni/Ti may be the exception to this observation.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

As I have said before, it's easy to look at Fi and Ni like this:

Fi: Inner truth
Ni: Universal truth

Of course both are subjective, but to the person they are real truths. Ni is less likely to make personal judgement, because it's a perceiving function, and while Fi is very likely to do so, because it's a judging function.

Fi is more likely to be introspective about themselves, and others from what they view is a personal truth. Which will be their moral standards. Checking in with what is happening, and making sure they live up to those values. Whereas Ni will be introspective from what they view as a bigger truth, and their judgement function will help them reach a conclusion. They don't really tangle personal views/logical truths when they firstly approach something.

I guess for an ISFP it is hard to see the line between our Fi and Ni, as they can support one another. But as an Fi dom you are very likely to overrule what that Ni perception, with whatever your Fi holds to a greater value. "This could be a possibility and maybe I should assume this is the right conclusion, but I don't believe this is something I want to achieve/it doesn't live up to what I want."


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

uncertain said:


> A lot of times I try to consider other people's perspective, *to analyze why they say or do this and that*, also to analyze my own thoughts, etc. The result is usually that "there is nothing absolutely right or wrong here," or "no one is really justified here," or "it would be bad for me to say so, or not helpful." A lot of time I also feel like I don't really have the right to be judgmental or to tell people what to do because I am flawed in many different ways.


The part in bold in particular seems to be Ni. This entire paragraph seems NiTe slanted. An Fi dom would change the perspective somewhat: What does this mean to _*me*_? That's why Fi is about personal evaluation. Fi types are very aware of what something means to them and they spend a lot of time trying to figure out what things mean to them. Ni types look for meaning in a more general sense. What does _*this*_ mean? 

Also, did you ever consider type 9 for your core instead of 5?

Anyway, the way I understand Ni with Fi supporting Ni as a tertiary function, is that I often have this sense of what I must do or what needs to be done but I tend to hesitate because I am not absolutely certain. It's Ni because this sense just tends to build up over time until there's a turning point where I act. The time is right or the moment is right. Can't put it better than that. I think this is why Ni is associated with time management in socionics. 

Anyway, as an example, when I used to play World of Warcraft I was a member of this guild. I was quite happy in it but over time, I became increasingly aware that in terms of ethics, I did not agree with what the guild was doing or what it represented and I did not want to be a part of that. I had this nagging feeling of needing to leave, but I didn't know where or how. This is probably a good example of perception leading because what happened was that I stayed in the guild anyway, thinking that maybe I can ignore that feeling (Fi judgement was overruled by Ni seeking guidance). Of course I couldn't, it always bothered me at some profound level, but I kept telling myself that I should stay since I have no real reason to leave.

Anyway, I began researching potential guilds I could join if I were to leave, hoping to find a guild whose ethics and goals in the game suited me better. At that moment I knew what I was supposed to do. I wrote an application, I got accepted, I told my current guild about my situation but things got complicated and I just... left. Like that. People thought it was extremely unexpected and no one saw it coming because I had never spoken to anyone about it. 

I can't quite speak about intuition when it works like that because there's always the risk that I can be wrong. I don't possess enough data so I can't make a preliminary judgement of what to do (need for perception data overrules J). Yet the direction it's pointing me towards is always inevitable. 

I think this is also why I've mostly been what you could consider a drifter in my life. I simply drift through life. Where I am now seems to mostly be the results of circumstance rather than a planned outcome or course of action. I in fact shy away from taking that kind of control of my life in general. The meaningful moments that change my life to the better seem to mostly be when I simply take whatever opportunity landing in my lap and grab it. 

I'm very attuned to possibilities that way which is why I thought I was an Ne type before.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

firedell said:


> I guess for an ISFP it is hard to see the line between our Fi and Ni, as they can support one another. But as an Fi dom you are very likely to overrule what that Ni perception, with whatever your Fi holds to a greater value. *"This could be a possibility and maybe I should assume this is the right conclusion, but I don't believe this is something I want to achieve/it doesn't live up to what I want."*


You got me there


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

LeaT said:


> The part in bold in particular seems to be Ni. This entire paragraph seems NiTe slanted. An Fi dom would change the perspective somewhat: What does this mean to _*me*_? That's why Fi is about personal evaluation. Fi types are very aware of what something means to them and they spend a lot of time trying to figure out what things mean to them. Ni types look for meaning in a more general sense. What does _*this*_ mean?


I think I am a Fi because most of the time it is "What does this mean to me." I omit the "to me" because I think it is natural for everyone to relate things they encounter in life to themselves. "What does this mean to me" and "What does this mean" look the same to me. I guess that's one of the reasons why I have a hard time to understand the difference when I see this kind of description.

The product of analyzing others' words and thought is like my food, and of course it is about what it means to me. I always come back to myself after thinking, comparing myself with the product. It wouldn't make sense to me why I would even analyze if the final product is not useful to me, not something I can use to introspect.

This is particularly true when big things happen in my life. I would be stunned or feel profound and overwhelmed, and then I get into an introspection mode. A few times in my life I had a crisis and feel like an entirely invalid person who should not exist on Earth when I challenge myself in every aspect.

Sometimes it's not big things. One thing that can make me mad is if I found out that a very good friend of mine actually really hate me and says something disgusting about me to people, and in fact everything he/she tells me is a lie. One is the fakeness. Two is that I start to think why he/she does that to me. I analyze everything she/he hate me about, and what does that me, okay guys, *to me. *Am I really as bad as that? Do I need to change? Or be a better person? Or whatever.



> Also, did you ever consider type 9 for your core instead of 5?


I don't want to jump into that yet.



> Anyway, the way I understand Ni with Fi supporting Ni as a tertiary function, is that I often have this sense of what I must do or what needs to be done but I tend to hesitate because I am not absolutely certain. It's Ni because *this sense just tends to build up over time until there's a turning point where I act.* *The time is right or the moment is right.* Can't put it better than that. I think this is why Ni is associated with time management in socionics.


It's so hard to differentiate a Fi-Ni(ter.) and a Ni-Fi(ter.) because both type can develop their tertiary pretty well.
I don't hesitate though if I figure out what needs to be done though. To me a lot of time, the problem is about figuring that out.

The bold sounds a bit awkward to me. It doesn't just build up over time in my case. That sounds too arbitrary to me. I am more active in this regard although there are areas in life that I'm not quite sure, but I try to figure it out. I have heard people talking about the "right time" before. There is not really a "right time" or "right moment" to me. To me the right time is when I know what and how to do certain things and just go ahead. I mean why not? That's why I value freedom so much. It allows me to act when the right time, in my term, comes.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@uncertain did you ever consider Fe over Fi? How would you describe your relationship to the two?


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

LeaT said:


> @_uncertain_ did you ever consider Fe over Fi? How would you describe your relationship to the two?


Not really. I figured out pretty early that I didn't use Fe, and then every time when I read people describe Fe I was further confirmed that I didn't use it. I don't identify with Fe at all. It sounds really weird to me how it functions. I always wonder how can one really use this function naturally. The way it works sounds really...fake and pointless to me, but on the other hand I envy them a little bit because Fe-user are much better with the social norms and with people. Society seems to value Fe-users more than Fi-users and whenever I think about this part, society becomes fake to me as well, which is the reality, and I kinda feel sad. But Fe-user seem to be warmer and know what to say to comfort depressed people comparing with Fi-user. Sometimes I like that, but sometimes I am uncomfortable about that as well because I can feel like being intruded and vulnerable because my mind is being read. Yeah, I am a really bad person critiquing Fe-users because I'm so selfish here and I actually feel bad about saying all this.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Hey, thanks for starting this thread. I was also wondering how Fi acts as a judging function.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

uncertain said:


> Not really. I figured out pretty early that I didn't use Fe, and then every time when I read people describe Fe I was further confirmed that I didn't use it. I don't identify with Fe at all. It sounds really weird to me how it functions. I always wonder how can one really use this function naturally. The way it works sounds really...fake and pointless to me, but on the other hand I envy them a little bit because Fe-user are much better with the social norms and with people. Society seems to value Fe-users more than Fi-users and whenever I think about this part, society becomes fake to me as well, which is the reality, and I kinda feel sad. But Fe-user seem to be warmer and know what to say to comfort depressed people comparing with Fi-user. Sometimes I like that, but sometimes I am uncomfortable about that as well because I can feel like being intruded and vulnerable because my mind is being read. Yeah, I am a really bad person critiquing Fe-users because I'm so selfish here and I actually feel bad about saying all this.


What about Fi? How does Fi work in you?


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## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

uncertain said:


> I can't really perceive how my mind work at any time. I always wonder how often I am judging things or "measure things against a personal value system," which is not a very accurate description to me but I can't come up with a better one, so. I feel like I do that all the time but I don't really trust myself on this.
> 
> It's hard for me to imagine people who don't at all judge things according to a certain criteria. So I guess an Ni dom make judgment or make decisions by his Fe/Te. To me Te/Fe always involve speaking out and have sort of an authoritative feeling to them. So how does it work when your decision don't really involve anyone else, when it is very solitary and you don't really need to speak up?
> 
> ...



I response to the bolded part of your post, judgement is about the final act in my cognitive processing but when I express it can seem firm, conclusive and like the first thing I did but it is not. I think IXFPs judge first but this judgement might become soften by their external irriational process. INXJ process intuitively first then this might become seeming harden by their judging function.

In your abortion example, I can actually 'think' (not the right word at all) about it at first without really judging it, my conscious mind goes in the background (including all judgement, values, thoughts stop for a micro moment) and a free flow process that I do not really direct/conduct/influence naturally & unconciously happens. 

My mind just kind of lets the idea sit for a while and it goes in its own direction and some sort of subconcious process generates ideas and images around it then I reflect upon the images, impression, insights that I am getting and my mind moves forward towards the future and subconciously and then gradually more consciously, my mind starts considering the likely *future impact and implications* of say in this case, abortions. The judgement really starts happening then and it goes outside to Fe & what impact this would have on others, what do the other members of my society think and why (Ti chips in here). Then a conclusion and judgement is reached based on all these imputs balanced against each other. 

Sometimes depending and what I am processing I do not even bother applying and judgement or values to the impressions I am getting, they just sit there and my mind moves on to something else or I might reject them based on rationality. 

I am trying to describe my mind in slow motion and it is hard because the whole process is usually more instant and nebulous than that and sometimes I have to wait for extraverted sensing from my external reality to give me new experiences to feed into my unconscious mind to build a better picture, produce more images, provide more insights so I can form a conclusion (Fe/Ti) that seems 'right'. 

For example, I get intuitive images/impressions about someone I just saw, then my Fe is telling me based on these that he might be what we consider an asshole but I might need more experience around him, Se to get more insights and this is why Ni is always present with Se and cannot really exists properly without it and the Se/Ni process is rather circular.

I like my mind because I can just ask it a question or just let it flow freely stimulated usually by some external stimulus and it delivers images, perceptions, impressions, insights to me which I might then judge after, it is passive and beyond rational. That is my excuse for the craziness I just described anyway.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

LeaT said:


> What about Fi? How does Fi work in you?


Not sure if these are Fi related, and I can't list everything.
- I introspect a lot, always evaluate myself, try to become a better person, and think about what to do next, sometimes what I can do for the world. Recently I think a lot about relationship in which the other person rejected me. I never hate this person because I love so much. Instead, I keep thinking about it everyday or every other day. Besides feeling sad, I think about how to deal with it, what does this mean to me, and sometimes I learn about myself, too, during the process, and I question myself a lot.
- I do things when I feel like it.
- I stop doing things when they start to become meaningless to me.
- I can take things too personal, and I take most things personal.
- I value freedom a lot since it allows me to do what I want and it is important to me that I am not told to do something.
- I handle criticism pretty badly. Sometimes I get mad and become very furious and Te-like, and I fight back by debating hostile with people. People who have seen it never want to make me angry again. When I am okay with criticism, I take it and examine/evaluate myself.

- It takes me a long while to make close friends because I need time to observe them, to determine whether or not I like them base on my standard (morality/interest).
- I also like a lot of people because I am able to see the good in most people, but I know I like people in different degrees and for different reasons.
- Sometimes when I first see someone I can dislike them immediately base on how they act or talk or some small things, or their attitude and opinion about certain things, and once that distaste/disdain forms, I would have that in my mind for long time and I would ignore those people. (I know this is contradicting the last point but that's how I am)
- On the other hand, I am very forgiving toward my close friends because I can always find reason to justify their action.

- I treat people in the way I wanted to be treated.
- Sometimes I can be careless about other's feelings when I focus on myself too much.
- A lot of time I am unaware of social norms, and I don't quite care about the norms that I deem as stupid.
- I value authenticity and I don't quite tell lies to make people feel better. One, I hate lies. Two, it is pointless. Three, lying is tiring. I might ignore unpleasant subjects but I don't lie when I have to talk about them.
- I don't lie about myself to friends either because there is no point in being friends if they don't accept me as who I am.
- I like to do little things for people from time to time when I feel like it. I am usually pretty thoughtful in these deeds, even though they are not big and usually uncreative, but I try to do something a bit different. Like when it was my friend's b-day, I text message her instead of saying that on facebook, which is what everyone do. And when it came to my b-day, some people, not too many, greeted me on Facebook, and I responded to each of them in a personal way instead of only "thanks". No actually to some I said thanks only, but like 70% of them received a personalized respond.

That's all I have right now.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

uncertain said:


> Not sure if these are Fi related, and I can't list everything.
> - I introspect a lot, always evaluate myself, try to become a better person, and think about what to do next, sometimes what I can do for the world. Recently I think a lot about relationship in which the other person rejected me. I never hate this person because I love so much. Instead, I keep thinking about it everyday or every other day. Besides feeling sad, I think about how to deal with it, what does this mean to me, and sometimes I learn about myself, too, during the process, and I question myself a lot.
> - I do things when I feel like it.
> - I stop doing things when they start to become meaningless to me.
> ...


Very little of this seems to indicate Fi to me, especially from an Fi dominant perspective. A lot of what you list here is simply introversion or seems to point towards Fe or just bad self-esteem. The example about the birthday for example. It seems that the reasoning behind these actions is focused on how they will perceive them, rather than what you think is the right thing to do. I still opine some kind of IxFJ, but INFJ is the most likely because your cognition pattern seems to match vortical-synergetic the most. 

Gulenko Cognitive Styles - Wikisocion

Also, the part you mentioned there about blowing up? That seems like inferior Se, not inferior Te. 

There's also a certain laziness to your answers that just seem to lack the clarity I'd associate with type 5, which is why I think some kind of 94x tritype is more likely.


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## Violet Water (May 25, 2013)

Fi = "It would be really nice if that happened. It would make me happy."

Ni = "I know that's going to happen. Don't ask me how I just do."


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## Violet Water (May 25, 2013)

Bardo said:


> If I could, I would basically be telling people what they should be doing all the time. I don't because people don't like to be lectured and commanded about everything all the time, but I would.


This is a major difference between INJs and IFPs. IFPs, like ITPs, prefer to let others have the freedom to make their own decisions, as we IPs value our own freedom in that area above all else. INJs don't usually have this way of thinking, and can be happy to use others to make their "vision" come to life.


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## Violet Water (May 25, 2013)

uncertain said:


> Not sure if these are Fi related, and I can't list everything.
> - I introspect a lot, always evaluate myself, try to become a better person, and think about what to do next, sometimes what I can do for the world. Recently I think a lot about relationship in which the other person rejected me. I never hate this person because I love so much. Instead, I keep thinking about it everyday or every other day. Besides feeling sad, I think about how to deal with it, what does this mean to me, and sometimes I learn about myself, too, during the process, and I question myself a lot.
> - I do things when I feel like it.
> - I stop doing things when they start to become meaningless to me.
> ...


This sounds like Fi dominant to me.

The bit about blowing up Te-style seems to suggest inferior Te. IFP's start basically telling people all the different ways they're being an dickhead when they get really stressed. Inferior Se INJs might just go and punch the person in the face lol.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Very little of this seems to indicate Fi to me, especially from an Fi dominant perspective. A lot of what you list here is simply introversion or seems to point towards Fe or just bad self-esteem. The example about the birthday for example. It seems that the reasoning behind these actions is focused on how they will perceive them, rather than what you think is the right thing to do. I still opine some kind of IxFJ, but INFJ is the most likely because your cognition pattern seems to match vortical-synergetic the most.
> 
> Gulenko Cognitive Styles - Wikisocion
> 
> ...


No, I think it is the right thing to do, in the birthday thing. I have seen a lot of people just saying "thanks to all the birthday wishes" in one post and I don't like the way they do it. It's too general and quite robotic. I really had not thought about how people would perceive it. You couldn't, and that's quite tiring. Why would you even do it if it is not the right thing to do? I assume you don't do you if it doesn't even mean anything to you. Like if I do the "thanks to all" thing, it will become pretty pointless to me, and it doesn't feel right for me to do. It's not what I like.

It never happens to me that the blow-up can be Se. I don't know what inferior Se is. When I do that debate thing, it feels a lot like Te because I use a lot of logic, in a heated way, and I suddenly become much better with words at those points and reason things clearly. I say NO YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE ONE, this this this, TWO this and that, THREE blah blah blah, AND FOUR dah dah dah. THAT'S WHY YOU ARE WRONG.

Se is to me always the everyday basic simple way of perceiving the world, absorbing what you see in front of you, a love for raw data and sensual pleasure, etc. Beside using to to function on a daily basis, I have Se moments everyday, and they manifest as enjoyment of simple little lovely funny beautiful tasty warming exciting make-you-feel-good-and-lucky thing. Sometimes I can't tell you how much I enjoy my beer, my sandwich, my art collection book, music, the sun, the tens of different gray, gray-blue, and orange on the brick wall, and looking at people. How they move, talk, laugh, sit, etc. Yesterday I was sitting outside of a restaurant, looking at that wall I mentioned and was simply fascinated by all the wonderful color. The window frame on the wall was desaturated blue/blue green which works so well with the wall. I was talking to the person next to me and she said, "it looks all the same color to me." When I started describing what I saw, she started to see that and really loved it.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Violet Water said:


> This sounds like Fi dominant to me.
> 
> The bit about blowing up Te-style seems to suggest inferior Te. IFP's start basically telling people all the different ways they're being an dickhead when they get really stressed. Inferior Se INJs might just go and punch the person in the face lol.


I don't know about you, but the way my inferior Se is expressed is telling everyone how stupid they are, which is why I mistook myself for an IxFP for some time. I've never been physically violent. That's not how my Se manifests.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I still opine some kind of IxFJ, but INFJ is the most likely because your cognition pattern seems to match vortical-synergetic the most.
> 
> Gulenko Cognitive Styles - Wikisocion


Wait, isn't it a socionics site?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

uncertain said:


> No, I think it is the right thing to do, in the birthday thing. I have seen a lot of people just saying "thanks to all the birthday wishes" in one post and I don't like the way they do it. It's too general and quite robotic. I really had not thought about how people would perceive it. You couldn't, and that's quite tiring. Why would you even do it if it is not the right thing to do? I assume you don't do you if it doesn't even mean anything to you. Like if I do the "thanks to all" thing, it will become pretty pointless to me, and it doesn't feel right for me to do. It's not what I like.


So you got morals, but having morals is not the same thing as evaluating things ethically according to Fi or Fe, for the matter.


> It never happens to me that the blow-up can be Se. I don't know what inferior Se is. When I do that debate thing, it feels a lot like Te because I use a lot of logic, in a heated way, and I suddenly become much better with words at those points and reason things clearly. I say NO YOU ARE WRONG BECAUSE ONE, this this this, TWO this and that, THREE blah blah blah, AND FOUR dah dah dah. THAT'S WHY YOU ARE WRONG.


And why couldn't this equally be Ti or something else entirely? When I blow up with inferior Se in an argument, it's very much, 1. THIS IS A STICK 2. THIS IS A STICK 3. THIS IS A STICK. I do think you got unconscious thinking, but I am not sure I think it's inferior.


> Se is to me always the everyday basic simple way of perceiving the world, absorbing what you see in front of you, a love for raw data and sensual pleasure, etc. Beside using to to function on a daily basis, I have Se moments everyday, and they manifest as enjoyment of simple little lovely funny beautiful tasty warming exciting make-you-feel-good-and-lucky thing. Sometimes I can't tell you how much I enjoy my beer, my sandwich, my art collection book, music, the sun, the tens of different gray, gray-blue, and orange on the brick wall, and looking at people. How they move, talk, laugh, sit, etc. Yesterday I was sitting outside of a restaurant, looking at that wall I mentioned and was simply fascinated by all the wonderful color. The window frame on the wall was desaturated blue/blue green which works so well with the wall.


Yeah, that sounds like Se, but it's like saying an inferior Se type cannot do these things too. I enjoyed my phad thai very much, my ice tea very much and my ice cream very much. I also enjoyed watching this 13 Assassins and the little things that were use to enhance the mood like you see this fly flying across the screen as someone is having their death moment etc.

So what is it about the colors that fascinate you?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

uncertain said:


> Wait, isn't it a socionics site?


Yes, I think it applies equally across systems. If your Jungian type is that of say, NiFe, then your thinking will be vortical-synergetic as Gulenko proposes.


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## Violet Water (May 25, 2013)

LeaT said:


> I don't know about you, but the way my inferior Se is expressed is telling everyone how stupid they are, which is why I mistook myself for an IxFP for some time. I've never been physically violent. That's not how my Se manifests.


Why would Se tell people how stupid they are? Surely that's a judging function (probably Thinking)? 

Inferior Se can also be things like drinking too much, eating too much chocolate (though we're all guilty of that haha), not giving a shit about your health, doing hard work-outs... Basically jumping into the physical world (Se) in a very inelegant way when stressed out.  That's my understanding of it anyway - my understanding may well suck haha.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

Violet Water said:


> This is a major difference between INJs and IFPs. IFPs, like ITPs, prefer to let others have the freedom to make their own decisions, as we IPs value our own freedom in that area above all else. INJs don't usually have this way of thinking, and can be happy to use others to make their "vision" come to life.


I don't tell people what to do because I don't like to be told what to do, and I feel like violating their freedom of choosing what to do. Also, it would be pretty arrogant for me to tell people how to deal with life, unless they ask me for my advice.


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## Violet Water (May 25, 2013)

uncertain said:


> I don't tell people what to do because I don't like to be told what to do, and I feel like violating their freedom of choosing what to do. Also, it would be pretty arrogant for me to tell people how to deal with life, unless they ask me for my advice.


Because you're probably an IFP.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Violet Water said:


> Why would Se tell people how stupid they are? Surely that's a judging function (probably Thinking)?


It's the forcefulness of how I do it which is manifested through Se. I lose my patience and control, it becomes very forceful and crude, accept this fact, accept this fact, accept this fact, accept this fact. Thinking does by itself not denote judgement.


> Inferior Se can also be things like drinking too much, eating too much chocolate (though we're all guilty of that haha), not giving a shit about your health, doing hard work-outs... Basically jumping into the physical world (Se) in a very inelegant way when stressed out.  That's my understanding of it anyway - my understanding may well suck haha.


It's not necessarily about excess, it's about savoring the moment and experience it to the fullest. Also, some inferior Se types can turn hypochondriac so there's that aspect too, where they are extremely concerned about their health because it's a way to control the environment. 

And yes, your understanding sucks.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Violet Water said:


> Because you're probably an IFP.


And that's exactly why I mistyped for several years too. It doesn't work that way. There can be several reasons why people dislike being told what to do.


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## Violet Water (May 25, 2013)

LeaT said:


> It's the forcefulness of how I do it which is manifested through Se. I lose my patience and control, it becomes very forceful and crude, accept this fact, accept this fact, accept this fact, accept this fact. Thinking does by itself not denote judgement.
> 
> It's not necessarily about excess, it's about savoring the moment and experience it to the fullest. Also, some inferior Se types can turn hypochondriac so there's that aspect too, where they are extremely concerned about their health because it's a way to control the environment.
> 
> And yes, your understanding sucks.


Well, yes, in the sense that an Se blow-up can be intimidating - raised voice, intimidating body language, etc. But it's Te that expresses the actual judgement.

Yes, it is those things when used normally. Sorry, I thought we were talking about how it manifests in a "blow-up" episode. 

Haha thanks.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

LeaT said:


> So what is it about the colors that fascinate you?


There is not a reason. I just like them. The more I look at them, the more excited I become, and then the harder it is for me to tell you how much joy I have at the moment. Yes I did tell a person about it, but it's just one tenth of what I was experiencing. Isn't it fascinating to see all the orange and blue in different shapes and tones and shades? You know, they are lovely gorgeous handsome orange and blue

One theoretical explanation is that orange and blue are complementary colors. Another two pairs are red-green, yellow-violet. They are not bold orange and blue but very subdued and sophisticated colors. Well, bold in a way but not the most saturated orange and blue you see on the color wheel. I guess the texture has influence as well. You would never understand what I am talking about unless you see it on your own, but that wall is a pretty genetic one, which means you might be able to find a similar one in you neighborhood.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Violet Water said:


> Well, yes, in the sense that an Se blow-up can be intimidating - raised voice, intimidating body language, etc. But it's Te that expresses the actual judgement.


There is no judgement involved if all I say is that the fact is a fact. Te judgement would be to do some kind of categorization, but I'm clearly not categorizing if I'm just stating things in an as-is manner.



> Yes, it is those things when used normally. Sorry, I thought we were talking about how it manifests in a "blow-up" episode.
> 
> Haha thanks.


The inferior is always present as an unconscious force and it will appear different in every person. 



uncertain said:


> There is not a reason. I just like them. The more I look at them, the more excited I become, and then the harder it is for me to tell you how much joy I have at the moment. Yes I did tell a person about it, but it's just one tenth of what I was experiencing. Isn't it fascinating to see all the orange and blue in different shapes and tones and shades? One theoretical explanation is that orange and blue are complementary colors. Another two pairs are red-green, yellow-violet. They are not bold orange and blue but very subdued and sophisticated colors. I guess the texture has influence as well. You would never understand what I am talking about unless you see it on your own, but that wall is a pretty genetic one, which means you might be able to find a similar one in you neighborhood.


See, the thing is, you never respond the way I expect you to respond as in, you never provide with Te data. This is why I fail to see Fi-Te, especially as a dominant axis. At least then, I'd expect Fi data in response to Te data. 

Instead now you just gave me Se with Fe. 


> but that wall is a pretty genetic one, which means you might be able to find a similar one in you neighborhood


This here suggests an Fe perspective for example.


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## Violet Water (May 25, 2013)

LeaT said:


> And that's exactly why I mistyped for several years too. It doesn't work that way. There can be several reasons why people dislike being told what to do.


I'm not talking about disliking being told what to do. I'm saying that IFPs generally are much less happy to TELL OTHERS what to do than INJs. Unless they've developed it fo work etc., IFPs won't be anywhere near as assertive and domineering.

I wasn't saying INJs like being told what to do.


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