# NT: The Need for Competence



## guessesandhunches (Feb 20, 2014)

Why do NTs have the need to be competent? I can understand the T contribution, but how does it combine with the N to produce the desire for personal competence? What does the N contribute?


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## intraconsensious (Feb 16, 2014)

...don't think it's just about being an NT/exclusive to NTs. Like most other blanket statements regarding a certain temperament.

I think a person can desire to be competent in something if the person has:

- a strong passion/interest/belief in something
- peer pressure

Every temperament will be drawn to something in which they want to be competent in. For e.g NT's want to be competent in critical thinking, SJ's want to be competent in preventing unsafe changes to order...etc.

If you meant NT's need for intellectual competence...not sure. Could be an ego thing. Or it could be simply because NT's are interested in intellectual areas.

In terms of dichotomies...don't think the N plays a part. It's the Fe/Fi (cognitive functions) that wants others' acknowledgement/others to confirm that what they know is right.

Will leave this to someone more well versed in cognitive functions to explain if they come by or if I find more information and decide to add on.


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## MirrorSmile (May 26, 2011)

With intellectual competence... I _do_ want to be competent in the areas I am interested in. It just so happens that you can apply critical thinking in those areas. I'm inclined to think about things, so of course I would want to be competent in something I am inclined to do. I like knowing what I know and what I don't know.

I can honestly say that it's also an ego thing too.



intraconsensious said:


> In terms of dichotomies...don't think the N plays a part. It's the Fe/Fi (cognitive functions) that wants others' acknowledgement/others to confirm that what they know is right.


I can't speak for everyone, but in my case I have relatively high standards for myself. My Fi gets warning signals when I end up not meeting those standards and disappointing myself.


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## intraconsensious (Feb 16, 2014)

MirrorSmile said:


> I can't speak for everyone, but in my case I have relatively high standards for myself. My Fi gets warning signals when I end up not meeting those standards and disappointing myself.


I have standards for myself too, but they are of a lower priority compared to knowing what others think of them. Serves as some sort of fulfilment/learning point.


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## virtual (Feb 20, 2014)

I compete because I want to be the best at what I do. It makes me feel good and pays well too.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

The N part is almost like OCD. 

When I sweep up when finishing my job I have to cover every surface area because (N part) there could be spots that I'm missing and I can't deal with that. 

It's not even that I care that much about my job, but I just have to sweep well. 


This is unlike the sensors that I work with,
When they sweep they just sweep the spots where they can see there is something on the ground, and it kills me.

I always think, "uhhh you sensor, your missing so much and working to fast"



So I think the N part of it is that you can think of all the possibilities related to the job. 




So when the S leaves from sweeping they feel like they did there job because they swept all that they saw. 

But an N might leave wondering if they actually did get everything or not.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

Bahburah said:


> I always think, "uhhh you sensor, your missing so much and working to fast"


Yea also seems to be an ego thing... lol


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## Strelok (Aug 16, 2013)

Bahburah said:


> This is unlike the sensors that I work with,
> When they sweep they just sweep the spots where they can see there is something on the ground, and it kills me.


Really? That's what I do because I don't give a fuck about scrubbing clean floors, and because paying attention to physical details (like dirt on the floor) is draining and about as exciting as watching a dog take a shit.


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## starscream430 (Jan 14, 2014)

I strive for competence because it is not only something I wish to showcase to the world, but also it's something that truthfully feeds my ego in regards to academic skills. If I fail at something, it really rattles me a lot because I hold a high standard for myself not only in regards of intelligence, but also in regards to competence.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

Strelok said:


> Really? That's what I do because I don't give a fuck about scrubbing clean floors, and because paying attention to physical details (like dirt on the floor) is draining and about as exciting as watching a dog take a shit.


Because your soooo INTP right?

Sensors are knowing for making quick work of a job for the exact reason you said. 

The don't give a shit about the dirt on the floor because it's just dirt to them.

To me sweeping all the dirt is more about the idea of doing a good thural job rather than just sweeping dirt because I'm told to. 

Mind you I wouldn't be sweeping at all if it where not part of my job, but since it's my job I take it seriously. 

And I can't seriously ignore dirt that I know is there, that would just be ignorant.


But even outside of my job I'm going to do something well or not even do it at all, nothing in between. 



And I don't know, you can learn a lot from watching a dog take a shit. 
Like how they angle there bodies and legs into there natural pooping position.

Thats they way humans should be taking a shit, squatting down. 
Sitting on a toilet isn't the humans natural pooping position and can cause constipation or later down the line hemorrhoids.

roud:


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## StunnedFox (Dec 20, 2013)

Bahburah said:


> Because your soooo INTP right?
> 
> Sensors are knowing for making quick work of a job for the exact reason you said.
> 
> ...


Don't know where you've gotten this idea from; certainly, if I were sweeping, I'd be striving to do the job thoroughly, so, given I'm striving for cleanliness (that being the purpose for sweeping), I'd attempt to ensure that the entirety of the floor was clean.

On the more general topic of this thread, I'd say that people mostly strive to be competent in fields that they're interested in, or otherwise consider important. There may be general trends as to what this is between temperaments, but it probably differs significantly between individuals as well. Probably not tethered to any particular cognitive function.


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## TuesdaysChild (Jan 11, 2014)

Bahburah said:


> Because your soooo INTP right?
> 
> Sensors are knowing for making quick work of a job for the exact reason you said.
> 
> ...


I've never met an INTP that could give a crap about getting all the dirt. All the ones I know think it's funny how ordered their internal world is and how disordered their external world is. They'd rather do it slap dash and quick so they can tune out the concrete world and go think about String Theory or something. Why? Because N cares about all the *abstract* possibilities, not the &[email protected]%#£¥ floor that you walk on. Only people I know that obsess over sweeping floors are SJs.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

AlliG said:


> I've never met an INTP that could give a crap about getting all the dirt. All the ones I know think it's funny how ordered their internal world is and how disordered their external world is. They'd rather do it slap dash and quick so they can tune out the concrete world and go think about String Theory or something. Why? Because N cares about all the *abstract* possibilities, not the &[email protected]%#£¥ floor that you walk on. Only people I know that obsess over sweeping floors are SJs.


Well I was raised with a good work ethic from my ESTJ father so what can I say? 

My life and everything els is a mess because I don't care about it but as soon as I have responsibility and others are relying on me then I understand that that sort of behaviour isn't the best choice. (most likely from inferior Fe)

If I where to act the way I normally function at work I wouldn't have a job, so I adapt.

I'm also constantly trying to improve my self in every way and that includes how I do my job so yes I do care about the dirt because it reflects how good I am at doing my job.

There is also something specifically satisfying about sweeping for me and funny enough my old INFP also liked sweeping. Being able to see something go from dirty to clean is extremely satisfying, I think it's because you can see growth and improvement quickly form your efforts and this triggers dopamine to be released in the brain. It's that same reason I play RPG's because I like to level up and see my character improve.

My life is all over the place so when I can focus on something and see myself improving it feels nice.

But sweeping is just apart of my job that I can do well, however ask me to find something in the storage room that i've never had to find before and I'm as blind as a bat, that is however until I find out where the thing I am looking for is kept and then I will never forget where it is.

And I don't know about you but when I'm just rushing a job I don't have time to think because I have to concentrate on going fast and thats why I never rush. I'd much rather take my time so that I can work and think at the same time, even if I don't get off on time because of it.


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## TuesdaysChild (Jan 11, 2014)

Bahburah said:


> Well I was raised with a good work ethic from my ESTJ father so what can I say?
> 
> My life and everything els is a mess because I don't care about it but as soon as I have responsibility and others are relying on me then I understand that that sort of behaviour isn't the best choice. (most likely from inferior Fe)
> 
> ...


Your reasons for liking to sweep the floor surely explain the method to your sweeping madness. It would have made sense for you to say that in the first place rather than challenge the "INTPness" of the poster that commented that he could give a crap about sweeping the floor. Methinks Ti would have known that....

Patched.

And no, I'm not embarrassed. I don't think abstract means what you think it means. From your explanation, you seem to be under the impression that abstract means to come up with something out of the blue without any thought behind it. That's miles away from what abstract means.

ab·stract
adjective
abˈstrakt,ˈabˌstrakt/
1.
existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence.
synonyms:	theoretical, conceptual, notional, intellectual, metaphysical, ideal, philosophical, academic; More
antonyms:	actual, concrete
dealing with ideas rather than events.
"the novel was too abstract and esoteric to sustain much attention"
not based on a particular instance; theoretical.
"we have been discussing the problem in a very abstract manner"
(of a word, esp. a noun) denoting an idea, quality, or state rather than a concrete object.
"abstract words like truth or equality"
of or relating to abstract art.
"abstract pictures that look like commercial color charts"
synonyms:	nonrepresentational, nonpictorial More
antonyms:	representational

All the examples you gave of things that N's are capable of thinking about (philosophy, programming, etc) are ALL abstract.

* I'm also particularly amused that after reading this, you went back and deleted your paragraph about what you think abstract means. Well played! (Of course, it's still captured in my post quote above...)


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

StunnedFox said:


> Don't know where you've gotten this idea from; certainly, if I were sweeping, I'd be striving to do the job thoroughly, so, given I'm striving for cleanliness (that being the purpose for sweeping), I'd attempt to ensure that the entirety of the floor was clean.
> 
> On the more general topic of this thread, I'd say that people mostly strive to be competent in fields that they're interested in, or otherwise consider important. There may be general trends as to what this is between temperaments, but it probably differs significantly between individuals as well. Probably not tethered to any particular cognitive function.


Yes but what is your motivation for sweeping everything?
You said it's because the purpose of sweeping is cleanliness, a SJ motivation because why els would you be sweeping?

My motivation is less about doing the job right and more about doing the job well, because of the ideals I set upon myself.

The dirt is just hitting me on a deeper level.


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## TuesdaysChild (Jan 11, 2014)

^^^^^^^^^^^^

*le sigh*

"Argue not with a fool according to his folly, lest you become foolish also."


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