# Warning Duality Seekers: Conflicting Relations are Dangerous!!!



## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

Okay so I actually was on the fence determining what my type was for a long time. I really wanted to know the relationship of duality and I really had hopes that I could use socionics/mbti to find the best relationship for myself. I experimented a lot and there was a lot of confusion as I searched for that better half. Before I had this idea of duality I never would have dated an SLE but I thought, in the hopes of finding duality, perhaps I should give it a try (because I didn't really know my type and I felt that I was associating with people who were too similar to me and my preferences). 

Well, what I found is that I have never had worse relations before in my life. It was absolutely painful to have the worst things you could ever have said about you said to you all at once in a screaming vortex of pain. So this is a word of caution for anyone searching for duality just be sure you've got your types right because if you end up in a bad relationship, your world can come crashing down on you. 

Thankfully, it wasn't all bad. At least I learned my type through conflicting relations. lol. But I also lost my car, paid hundreds of dollars in fines, and lost at least 6 months of my life on two of the dumbest relationships I've ever been in.


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

So socionics was right in your case.

I've experienced both duality and conflict.

duality is blissful, conflict is just that. Thankfully I'm still unmarried currently and I know about socionics. Without this knowledge, I would stumble aling trying to find the right match, going through tons of people. Now I know who are my duals. Also how to attract them if needed.

my advice, search for your dual, and experience a love like nothing you have experienced before.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

marzipan01 said:


> Thankfully, it wasn't all bad. At least I learned my type through conflicting relations. lol. But I also lost my car, paid hundreds of dollars in fines, and lost at least 6 months of my life on two of the dumbest relationships I've ever been in.


O___O what the fuck...happened?!

You must tell me, the curiosity is going to kill me otherwise...lost your car!? Fines? 

^^ also haha, you are a J INFP. o.o I knew it was possible!

o.o u sure thou? I mean I know this one Ti-Se ISTP and imo she sems to have one hell of a fun mind, but she is supposed to be my conflictor. I'm pretty sure I'm IEE or at least EII (Ne-Fi are my strongest functions across all systems I test NFP & fit mostly).


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Conflictors don't have to turn your life into shit.
However I'm thinking more and more that they should be kept at an armlengths distance.
My ENTP friend works out as long as we don't get too close.
It is hard knowing exactly where one should draw the line on his behaviour and my own.
There are many potential issues.
At worst we waste each others time and energy.
At best we manage to meet up over an activity that both like.
I can imagine a relationship with an ENTP would be supertricky.
In a romantic relationship you are trying to sync your lives up.
Syncing with someone who can push your PoLR by just opening their eyes is a bad idea.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Dual and Conflictor can, oddly enough, easily be confused at first. 

Your Conflictor is fairly strong in the Ego block of your Dual, and is very strong in your Superego block, both of which you are likely to respect. I've run across cases with Conflictors where there are mutual complements and light interaction in the beginning stages that actually seems very pleasant. Both people can sense that the other is strong where the other is weak, and if you're just talking to each other neutrally (i.e. not working together jointly) the interaction itself can be enjoyable. It isn't until you are forced to cooperate, get to know each other more closely, or begin to have unconscious expectations of the other person, that things tend to become much more difficult. This can definitely occur right away as well, but I've had experiences with Conflictors where the "conflicting" part of the relationship has taken awhile to come about (although it still does, big time). 

With Duals, I actually find the opposite to be true. They aren't "mysterious" at all. In fact, some (lightly) annoy me at first, or seem like they're too forceful or scattered, and on the wrong path in what they are doing. The difference is that once I connect with them and figure out what it is they _are trying to_ accomplish, something clicks and I am able to very clearly see where they are coming from, why, and usually that it's worthwhile to go along with them. The relationship sometimes begins nonchalantly, with the pleasant parts coming after/as you cooperate on something. 

Subtype makes a huge difference with all relationships. With Conflictors, I get into the worst tangles with opposite subtype, and tend to do better with the same subtype (more respect, more appeal, more room to negotiate issues). With Duals, I have positive, but not always really close relationships with the opposite subtype, and have trouble _not_ becoming close to the same subtype.


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

I agree with duals initially seeming a bit annoying. With my duals, I notice I'm usually put off by their attention seeking ways. Its a bit repelling actually. Also I notice that I really don't take them seriously, at first. And notice their negative attributes quickly. It has taken me a lot of time to develop closeness with my first dual. It takes some time getting used to who they are, then later the magic happens. 

I do find that subtype also makes a difference. Certain subtypes are more difficult for me to get along with. Like for working relationships certain subtypes are more easy, but other subtypes for intimate relationships.

I also find that I don't understand sx doms as well as the other two types


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## Grad0507 (Dec 12, 2013)

Yeah, what a lot of people don't realize is that socionics types don't correlate with Myers-Briggs types perfectly, so you might think you're in a duality relationship when you're actually in a conflicting relationship.


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## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> O___O what the fuck...happened?!
> 
> You must tell me, the curiosity is going to kill me otherwise...lost your car!? Fines?
> 
> ...


Basically, I thought these guys were my duals and they were really bossy and I let them be in charge but they couldn't tell time and then got mad at me when I met them at the time they told me to be there. There was just no respect on either end. I thought they were dumb and terrible at organizing things and didn't appreciate how sensitive, caring, and affectionate I could be. I spent a lot of money and a lot of time and got into stress trying to get things done for them on time and they just didn't appreciate any of it because they were idiots in my opinion. And they both thought I was an idiot in return. It was a waste of time and money.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

marzipan01 said:


> Basically, I thought these guys were my duals and they were really bossy and I let them be in charge but they couldn't tell time and then got mad at me when I met them at the time they told me to be there. There was just no respect on either end. I thought they were dumb and terrible at organizing things and didn't appreciate how sensitive, caring, and affectionate I could be. I spent a lot of money and a lot of time and got into stress trying to get things done for them on time and they just didn't appreciate any of it because they were idiots in my opinion. And they both thought I was an idiot in return. It was a waste of time and money.


That sounds terrible. I'm not especially distrustful of LSIs but I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells when I'm trying to have a conversation on a personal level. The worst is that everyone involved now don't respect one another and that's the worst part. :\

Live and learn, I guess the silver lining for all of this is you now know that you can't have an intimate relationship with your conflictor. That gives you even more of an incentive to seek out your dual now.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

MNiS said:


> That sounds terrible. I'm not especially distrustful of LSIs but I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells when I'm trying to have a conversation on a personal level. The worst is that everyone involved now don't respect one another and that's the worst part. :\
> 
> Live and learn, I guess the silver lining for all of this is you now know that you can't have an intimate relationship with your conflictor. That gives you even more of an incentive to seek out your dual now.


o.o hmm this is true, at least my conflictor noted that she feels like walking on eggshells around me. I have similar experience with this ISFJ-ESI I know....*shudders* I really don't like her. I always feel like being somewhere she is not and have had the same experience with ISFJ-ESIs on the forum as well...odd. I find them...irritatingly stubborn and short sighted/illogical. She freaks out over bent page corners ffs and is always unsatisfyingly moralizing/critical/rigid. Same goes for my grandmother, its like they are soo similar..I find it odd.

Totally different experience with ISFP-ESIs.  they seem mellow.

^^ I think I have more problems with my suervisee then conflictor. ISFJ-ESIs are really frustrating.
Keys to Kognition says my Ti closer then Te to Fi levels so maybe I have a trained Ti and I'm not bothered by it that much? I have this odd switch, where I can ignore all ethics and feeling and go into this pure monotone logical mode  can't do both at the same time thou.

extraverted Sensing (Se) (24)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) (16.7)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne)(47.3)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) (33.8)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te)(19.5)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) (26.3)
average use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) (30)
good use
introverted Feeling (Fi) (43)
excellent use

 there was this LSI who thought he was IEI thou...man the guy was thick headed and constantly complained that I must be IEI because he can't stand me lmao. I think he got banned or I put him on the ignore list.


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## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

MNiS said:


> That sounds terrible. I'm not especially distrustful of LSIs but I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells when I'm trying to have a conversation on a personal level. The worst is that everyone involved now don't respect one another and that's the worst part. :\
> 
> Live and learn, I guess the silver lining for all of this is you now know that you can't have an intimate relationship with your conflictor. That gives you even more of an incentive to seek out your dual now.


I guess I kept on thinking that I could solve the problem easily by pointing out their mistake but they never understood and were deeply offended every time I pointed it out. I guess maybe a true socionics Ni-Fe would just smile and nod and love everything they did? But Ne-Fi makes me want to point out their mistakes all the time so they can learn and grow.


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

I can't wrap my head around how one might apply the term "dangerous" to EIIs in general.


Anyone care to enlighten me?


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Choice said:


> I can't wrap my head around how one might apply the term "dangerous" to EIIs in general.
> 
> 
> Anyone care to enlighten me?


If Se is as Jung described a preference for concrete-real sensory input *by objective intensity* rather then the intensity of the subjective sensation-constituent released by the objective stimulus and EIIs have Se PoLR  then yeah, they are the least "physically dangerous" type & SLE is their complete opposite.

Opposites contrary to popular belief do not attract, there is factual evidence for this.

@marzipan01 how do you differentiate between ESTJ & ESTP.....I'm always confused when it comes to dual vs conflictor :s...


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## intp_gurl (Mar 8, 2014)

It's amazing to me how similar dual vs conflictor can seem, if you don't know what to look for. No wonder duals pass each other by often. Once you meet a dual, experience dualization, then you know what to look for and you can attract another if you need to. You learn to not pass them by.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> o.o hmm this is true, at least my conflictor noted that she feels like walking on eggshells around me. I have similar experience with this ISFJ-ESI I know....*shudders* I really don't like her. I always feel like being somewhere she is not and have had the same experience with ISFJ-ESIs on the forum as well...odd. I find them...irritatingly stubborn and short sighted/illogical. She freaks out over bent page corners ffs and is always unsatisfyingly moralizing/critical/rigid. Same goes for my grandmother, its like they are soo similar..I find it odd.
> 
> Totally different experience with ISFP-ESIs.  they seem mellow.
> 
> ...


You sound like you have a very hectic and chaotic life. 



marzipan01 said:


> I guess I kept on thinking that I could solve the problem easily by pointing out their mistake but they never understood and were deeply offended every time I pointed it out. I guess maybe a true socionics Ni-Fe would just smile and nod and love everything they did? But Ne-Fi makes me want to point out their mistakes all the time so they can learn and grow.


Yes. When first forming a relationship, Conflictors often times seem *more* interesting than your Complement(Dual). As the relationship progresses though you will begin to not understand your Conflictor on many issues and start to form closer ties with your Complement(Dual). That's why duality works well and conflicting relationships don't without some major compromises.



Choice said:


> I can't wrap my head around how one might apply the term "dangerous" to EIIs in general.
> 
> Anyone care to enlighten me?


They can only be "dangerous" in a bureaucratic system where they have power over others with no consequences for their decisions. Otherwise, individually the EII are no harm to anyone.


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## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> If Se is as Jung described a preference for concrete-real sensory input *by objective intensity* rather then the intensity of the subjective sensation-constituent released by the objective stimulus and EIIs have Se PoLR  then yeah, they are the least "physically dangerous" type & SLE is their complete opposite.
> 
> Opposites contrary to popular belief do not attract, there is factual evidence for this.
> 
> @_marzipan01_ how do you differentiate between ESTJ & ESTP.....I'm always confused when it comes to dual vs conflictor :s...



ESTJs are planners. ESTPs are doers. When I start talking about a plan just to run it past someone to see if it's a good idea or how I would go about it, an ESTJ will tell me if he/she thinks it's a good idea and talk about the practical considerations of the plan or listen sweetly. An ESTP will get annoyed and not want to hear it. What an ESTP wants is action, wants to do something right now. 

Of course, both are action oriented types and make decisions based on what is actually accomplished rather than what is said or imagined--they both are concerned with what "is". However, ESTPs are generally more impulsive, spontaneous, and unpredictable than ESTJs. ESTJs abhor violence (but engage in it when absolutely necessary) whereas it appears (from my very non-violent personality--to the point where it gets me into trouble with my life) ESTPs are energized by violence and engage in resource/time management activities only when necessary. 

Let me put it this way. We're at war. ESTPs are on the front lines fighting through the thicket of bullets. ESTJs are managing the resources, bickering with leaders to get the men shoes, weapons, etc. And the xxfjs are nursing the wounded. 

@_MNiS_ You're saying that EII's are dangerous in bureaucracy? I take offense to that! 

@_Choice_ EII's are nonviolent and the Se function is so weak that we abhor violence and all nefarious undertakings. We are ferocious judges of character. My conflicting relationships had tough times when I judged rather severely SLE undertakings as inconsiderate of other people's feelings to which they responded that I haven't achieved much in my life (because I have a physical repulsion to anything where I feel I might be cheating or swindling someone). I believe both of us felt deeply offended at being called out on our sorest function. So, in the sense that we (SLE and EII) offend each other and may work against each other's goals and aims in a group dynamic, we (SLE and EII) are immensely dangerous to each other.


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

marzipan01 said:


> Let me put it this way. We're at war. ESTPs are on the front lines fighting through the thicket of bullets. ESTJs are managing the resources, bickering with leaders to get the men shoes, weapons, etc. And the xxfjs are nursing the wounded.


^ Squee @ imagery.

In terms of being offended, I've been judged for my lack of empathy frequently enough that having another EII call me out on it whenever they care to may not feel like much. Although if that became the sole focus neither of us would get much work done. 

I think the point where it would hurt = being judged while my nerves are still raw, in which case anyone of of any type hitting me while I'm down would be effective.

I've yet to take issue with anyone (unaffected by relatively crippling illnesses) not achieving much in their life as long as they possess a certain degree of autonomy e.g. lack of being overly emotionally reliant. 

Was the SLE in question concerned about achievements, or merely making a defensive counterattack, or both? 



marzipan01 said:


> to which they responded that I haven't achieved much in my life (because I have a physical repulsion to anything where I feel I might be cheating or swindling someone).


Do you believe that you haven't achieved as much as you may have wanted to primarily due to a reluctance against cheating/swindling?


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

marzipan01 said:


> @_MNiS_ You're saying that EII's are dangerous in bureaucracy? I take offense to that!


It's more true for the Domination type EIIs. Maybe not you specifically.


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## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

Choice said:


> ^ Squee @ imagery.
> 
> In terms of being offended, I've been judged for my lack of empathy frequently enough that having another EII call me out on it whenever they care to may not feel like much. Although if that became the sole focus neither of us would get much work done.
> 
> ...


Mainly a defensive counterattack when I think about it. Although it felt completely out of the blue as I was trying to give him advice and be helpful to which he took offense as it was unwarranted advice which may have seemed condescending in hindsight (although it was not intended that way at all). 



> Do you believe that you haven't achieved as much as you may have wanted to primarily due to a reluctance against cheating/swindling?


Yes. I've had a crippling insecurity about finances and a horrible inability to do anything purely for the money has led to a lot of hesitation. Thus, it will, in the end, have taken me over a decade to finally obtain my degree and it won't be in what I originally wanted to but I really didn't have the funds and I had to take care of my sick sister. I'm fairly insecure on these points because if I had been more assertive and confident I could have achieved my goals despite my setbacks which were numerous but when I push too hard for myself (for the sake of others I can do anything) I feel guilty and like a fraud. I'm working on it.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

intp_gurl said:


> So socionics was right in your case.
> 
> I've experienced both duality and conflict.
> 
> ...


I know this is an old thread but hopefully I’ll be able to get some help in figuring this out.. I had a very painful on and off relationship with someone who is either my dual or my conflictor. The both of us agree that we will never be able to love anyone the same way we loved each other and we also agree that we know that nobody will be able to cause us as much pain as we caused one another. The relationship changed us both as people but I still can’t decide if this person was my dual or my conflictor. How would I know ?


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