# What to Do When You Have Nothing?



## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

That's it, I'm asking the internet. I'm dropping out of school in a week or so, so that counseling I signed up for will never happen. And I need some external feedback.


I've been falling apart lately, realizing more and more that, well, I'm a completely useless, empty shell of a human being. I have nothing internally. Nothing worthwhile. I've basically lost the ability to think, not that I ever really had it before (last night for example, I realized that I've never thought truly independently in my life, and I don't think I'm capable of doing so. That quote about "Those who see, those who are shown, and those who do not see"....the most I can ever be is one who is shown). I have no skills, nothing of use. I'm certainly not able to contribute anything meaningful to the world, not a new idea or a solution to an actually important issue. It's beyond me. _Everything_ is beyond me. Yet the idea of cowing to the intelligent and worthwhile just...makes me sick - of mindlessly marvelling at someone else's intellect rather than engaging it. Except I'm clearly not capable of the latter, and can't fess up to it.

Finding my real type seemed to feed into this. I have no idea how I ever mistyped as an NT, I'm the exact opposite of everything they are. I'm incapable of thinking logically or following an argument. I'm incapable of thinking creatively or even abstractly. Hell, I'm even bad at the things SFJs are supposed to be good at: my memory isn't what it used to be (I barely retain anything I learn) and I'm so asocial and socially clueless I've wondered before if I have some kind of personality disorder. Apparently my IQ, statistically, is among the lowest, so I can't even lean on that as a predictor of ability.

I have no will to learn anymore. Why bother? Every extra second I spend studying and practicing is just mounting proof of how useless, incompetent, and undeserving I am. And it's not as if I'll ever be able to put it to any real use. I'm afraid to try and just think about stuff, now that I can see how fake it is for me. I didn't come up with this independently, I'm not a real thinker, so any change in opinion or existential crisis that results is just....me mindlessly following like I was born to do. And if I change, try to shed my follower tendencies....that isn't really independent thinking, is it? I'm starting to think "independence" of thinking is an inborn thing. You either do it naturally from the time you're able to think, or you exude a facsimile of intellectualism, only cobbled together when you found out that not-questioning things is bad. So why lie? Why not just admit you're a mindless follower, believe everything without questioning? It might kill your soul as you realize you're wrong, but at least you didn't pretend to be something you're not?

All I've ever wanted was to be gifted. To be intellectually superior. To be talented and clever. To contribute something of value to humanity. But I'm not, and I can't. And it's killing me. Knowing how much I must infuriate the actually intelligent people of the world, how they must sneer at me, look at me with disgust at my stupidity, abhor my plodding, boring, unthinking presence and how I'm too stupid to get their references. Goddammit, I wanted to be one of them. There's no point in even learning for myself, since I'll never be able to learn to any high level, or put it to any inventive, interesting use. And my memory isn't good enough for me to even just be a mindless repository of facts. This site managed to simultaneously suppress and reveal my real self: when I typed as an NT I actually mistook myself for an intelligent person. But that's not true. I was just being exposed to more intellectual topics, which prompted me to think and learn about them more. That's not intelligence, everyone does that. There was never any real though there. And now I see that. Sure, it did wonders for my self-confidence, but it was lies too. And I don't want lies.

I can't think, I can't learn, and I'm completely useless and impossibly stupid. If I try to fix it, I'm just being fake and I know everyone will see right through it. I have nothing left as a person and it's killing me. 

Oh, and I'm a bit prone to taking advice as condescension. That could be a problem. But it's my problem. Please. Say anything.

I'm desperate enough to write out all this, disjointed as it is. I clarify anything if you need: I was trying to get a lot out at once.


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

You seem like one of Kafka's characters talking down on yourself like that. I just want to give you a proverbial slap in the face to make you realize that you have potential too. Are you perhaps confusing your identity with generalizations? Every single individual has something to bring to the table, it's just a matter of finding out what it is.

You aren't what you do. Just because you feel a little lost right now doesn't mean that you're useless, don't give up; you'll find that which you are searching for. Meanwhile, do something you love.


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## Notus Asphodelus (Jan 20, 2015)

Remember that all geniuses shares one thing - they may have specialized knowledge but they don't know everything. The fact is they are constantly learning and trying.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Blue Soul said:


> You seem like one of Kafka's characters talking down on yourself like that. I just want to give you a proverbial slap in the face to make you realize that you have potential too. Are you perhaps confusing your identity with generalizations? Every single individual has something to bring to the table, it's just a matter of finding out what it is.
> 
> You aren't what you do. Just because you feel a little lost right now doesn't mean that you're useless, don't give up; you'll find that which you are searching for. Meanwhile, do something you love.


I don't know what I love, and it seems a bit late to figure it out (I mean, sure I have had a few things that catch my interest, or that would like to learn...but there's so much to each of them I fear it's beyond me). I'm 20. I'm not particularly good at anything. And everything I said about doubting my ability to think and learn is true. And it's so damn late in life, I wonder if it's even worth trying?


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

@ScientiaOmnisEst:

What sticks out to me is that you appear to be using typology as a way to fuel stigmas associated with certain types. And to fuel your own insecurity.

The truth is, everyone is an individual within the type. There can be vastly superior, and intellectual ISFJs, who are also terrible with memory, and excellent at invention, creativity, and innovation. These are all behaviours-- And behaviours are universal. Cognition is the motivation for those behaviours, and that motivation reveals how we express them.

As long as you have the interest, time, and effort to put into something, you _can _excel at it. It just takes those three elements. So, whether it's mathematics, the sciences, art, or whatever it is-- You can be a master. And in the practicing of it, you will excel. And when you know a subject so familiarly that you can recite it with your eyes closed, that's when you start having questions, and wondering about what you _think _you already know about it.

All you need to do to be an intelligent person is to ask questions. Hell, watch the magic school bus. That's what I'm doing right now. :laughing:

We are _all _basically projections of our environments-- We were _all_ of us, raised and molded. We have been, and _are _all followers, in one sense or another-- Independent thinking is not something which is supposed to be _easy_. We all begin by following, and being shown, and by having the opportunity to practice what we see being shown to us. Asking questions, and wondering about the way things work is the first step towards coming to your own conclusions, _after _being shown.

Just enjoy the journey. Allow yourself to immerse in it, and enjoy it. Find a way to enjoy what you do, and everything else will follow.

I also want to excel-- I want to be intelligent, and amazing, and do something for humanity. I'm not really doing that either. I'm an artist-- I draw. And I haven't _really _been studying/practicing my art since Christmas... 

Most of us struggle with our identities, with wanting more than what we have-- Being something greater. And that will fuel us to do great things, even through the frustration of thinking we're not good enough. Of thinking that we could never amount to what other people are.

You've just begun your journey of learning. And I think that feeling that there's a lot in front of you, that it's seemingly impossible, is actually a pretty intelligent insight.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

LuvGen said:


> Remember that all geniuses shares one thing - they may have specialized knowledge but they don't know everything. The fact is they areconstantly learning and trying.


Ugh, this again. "Try hard and you can be genius too." No. That's not the same.

They key is natural ability. Which is making me kind of insane. Not too long ago I stumbled on some articles about gifted students vs. bright students. When I'm being honest with myself, and looking realistically at what I was like when I was younger...I was far closer to bright. Bright kids get lots of accolades but they don't really achieve anything spectacular. They're the ones making discoveries, solving major problems, or creating new ideas. And it's admitting that I'll never be able to do that that's killing me. 


* *





The bright child...
*Knows the answers*
Is interested
Is attentive
Has good ideas
Works hard
*Answers the questions*
Top group
*Listens with interest*
*Learns with ease*
*6-8 repetitions for mastery *[usually more]
Understands ideas
Enjoys peers
*Grasps the meaning*
Completes assignments
Is receptive
*Copies accurately*
Enjoys school
*Absorbs information*
*Technician*
*Good memorizer*
*Prefers straightforward tasks*
Is alert
Is pleased with own learning


The gifted learner...
Asks the questions
Is highly curious
Is mentally and physically involved
Has wild, silly ideas
*Plays around, yet tests well*
Discusses in detail; elaborates
Beyond the group
Shows strong feelings and opinions
Already knows
1-2 repetitions for mastery
Constructs abstractions
*Prefers adults*
Draws inferences
Initiates projects
Is intense
Creates new designs
Enjoys learning
Manipulates information
Inventor
*Good guesser*
Thrives on complexity
Is keenly observant
*Is highly self-critical
*


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> I don't know what I love, and it seems a bit late to figure it out (I mean, sure I have had a few things that catch my interest, or that would like to learn...but there's so much to each of them I fear it's beyond me). I'm 20. I'm not particularly good at anything. And everything I said about doubting my ability to think and learn is true. And it's so damn late in life, I wonder if it's even worth trying?


It's never too late. 20 years young is just a fraction of a fraction of a second in the cosmic calendar anyway. If you aren't good at something right now, you can become if you set your will to it. There's that potential in everyone. It's your life, it's always worth trying.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> @_ScientiaOmnisEst_:
> 
> What sticks out to me is that you appear to be using typology as a way to fuel stigmas associated with certain types. And to fuel your own insecurity.


There is a reason for this. I originally got into typology for one thing: to prove that I was indeed intelligent and what I thought was an intellectual slump was indeed just that. Type and function descriptions seemed to confirm that yes, I am naturally intelligent, rational, logical, and creative, capable of having brilliant ideas. The type-intelligence link was there from the start in my mind and it never completely went away; I regularly lamented not being smart enough to be an INTP. Unfortunately, it also seems to have made me a kind of boomerang typist as soon as I turned out to be almost the opposite type of what I thought I was...oh, and this thread didn't help either (hop to around page 18). 



> As long as you have the interest, time, and effort to put into something, you _can _excel at it. It just takes those three elements. So, whether it's mathematics, the sciences, art, or whatever it is-- You can be a master. And in the practicing of it, you will excel. And when you know a subject so familiarly that you can recite it with your eyes closed, that's when you start having questions, and wondering about what you _think _you already know about it.
> 
> All you need to do to be an intelligent person is to ask questions. Hell, watch the magic school bus. That's what I'm doing right now. :laughing:
> 
> We are _all _basically projections of our environments-- We were _all_ of us, raised and molded. We have been, and _are _all followers, in one sense or another-- Independent thinking is not something which is supposed to be _easy_. We all begin by following, and being shown, and by having the opportunity to practice what we see being shown to us. Asking questions, and wondering about the way things work is the first step towards coming to your own conclusions, _after _being shown.


Ah, but it comes more naturally to others. Those are the truly intelligent ones. The ones who don't have to be told to question, but do it automatically. And Like I alluded to in a previous post - no, it's not all hard work. There are so many people who learn and question effortlessly, naturally. For whom independent thinking is completely natural. And those are the ones who matter. 

Oh, and I gave an example of being shown versus seeing by oneself in the thread I linked. The one response I got to it was "I thought everyone did that" in reference to my example of seeing.



> Just enjoy the journey. Allow yourself to immerse in it, and enjoy it. Find a way to enjoy what you do, and everything else will follow.
> 
> I also want to excel-- I want to be intelligent, and amazing, and do something for humanity. I'm not really doing that either. I'm an artist-- I draw. And I haven't _really _been studying/practicing my art since Christmas...
> 
> ...


Thing is, it's hard to just go with it knowing how utterly useless it is, how pathetic I am in comparison to so many others, how behind i am in comparison to even my own standards.

I've been wrestling more and more with the issue of how ignorant I am, how much I _don't_ know and _don't_ think about that plenty of others my age (and younger!) do and it disgusts me. And there's no possible way to catch up - by the time I do everyone else will be far ahead again. 

I kind of want to ask: how it this an intelligent insight? The closest I can think of is that old line about the wisdom of "the man who knows he doesn't know". Yet all this "knowledge" does is demotivate me. If I'm so far behind and catching up is impossible, why bother? I'll just look ridiculous.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Ugh, this again. "Try hard and you can be genius too." No. That's not the same.
> 
> They key is natural ability. Which is making me kind of insane. Not too long ago I stumbled on some articles about gifted students vs. bright students. When I'm being hones with myself, and looking realistically at what I was like when I was younger...I was far closer to bright. Bright kids get lots of accolades but they don't really achieve anything spectacular. They're to making discoveries, solving major problems, or creating new ideas. And it's admitting that I'll never be able to do that that's killing me.
> 
> ...


'Natural ability' doesn't really exist. Those 'gifted children' were raised with just the right variables, and given just the right amount of attention, in the right areas. 'Natural ability' might even have everything to do with how their parents are raising them.

I worked in a kindergarten for awhile, and I can tell you that there were kids who did really well, kids who did okay, and kids who did really badly.

The ones who did really well also ate healthy, their parents did extra things with them-- Read with them, taught them math and other subjects, nurtured a love for learning and family, and generally spent more time with them.

The ones who did okay didn't eat as well, weren't as active, and their parents only spent a little extra time with them. 

The ones who did terrible were eating McDonalds for breakfasts, parents put on the TV for them and basically didn't spend any extra time with them at all.

Those were the only real differences between these children, based on my own observations. And I think that's also the differences between those two lists. 

I've seen wonder-kids who were raised by a university professor mom, and enthusiastic cheerful dad, the mom who knitted their clothing, always on the go and busy, and kept them active, kept teaching them and nurturing their potential... It was simply miraculous what those parents managed to do with 3 kids around the same age, and seemingly not that much time. Such great kids, too.

So, you _can_ excel, and do amazing things, if you apply yourself. Yes. It's not just something people say. It's the truth.

Eating healthy and exercising is also a factor. As is nurturing your own love of learning. It really _is _that simple.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> There is a reason for this. I originally got into typology for one thing: to prove that I was indeed intelligent and what I thought was an intellectual slump was indeed just that. Type and function descriptions seemed to confirm that yes, I am naturally intelligent, rational, logical, and creative, capable of having brilliant ideas. The type-intelligence link was there from the start in my mind and it never completely went away; I regularly lamented not being smart enough to be an INTP. Unfortunately, it also seems to have made me a kind of boomerang typist as soon as I turned out to be almost the opposite type of what I thought I was...oh, and this thread didn't help either (hop to around page 18).


How silly. There are plenty of idiot INTPs. There are pretty much an equal amount of idiots in every type. So, don't get so caught up into the shallow stereotypes. They simply aren't true, and aren't addressing the cognition of the individuals.

Also, IQ is a ridiculous measurement, and has a lot more to do with cultural factors and pattern-recognition than anything else. I wouldn't put any stock into it.

Being 'naturally good at something' is simply that an individual has more interest in it. That interest may wane, whereas the skill does not, but ultimately, it's about the interest, effort, and time spent.



> Ah, but it comes more naturally to others. Those are the truly intelligent ones. The ones who don't have to be told to question, but do it automatically. And Like I alluded to in a previous post - no, it's not all hard work. There are so many people who learn and question effortlessly, naturally. For whom independent thinking is completely natural. And those are the ones who matter.


Nonsense. No matter what anyone will tell you-- They had to learn to do what they do. And anyone who told you otherwise, simply likes to think they're special. :kitteh:



> Oh, and I gave an example of being shown versus seeing by oneself in the thread I linked. The one response I got to it was "I thought everyone did that" in reference to my example of seeing.


I'm not sure what this refers to, but it sounds like someone was just trying to make themselves out to be speshal again. 



> Thing is, it's hard to just go with it knowing how utterly useless it is, how pathetic I am in comparison to so many others, how behind i am in comparison to even my own standards.


Then get on khanacademy.com and fill in your educational gaps. Start doing something about it. You put in the interest, time, and effort, and you can excel. Simple as that. And if you don't, and you want to make excuses, that's fine by me. But, that's all they are-- excuses. And they are brick walls that are preventing you from being what you want to be. You don't need to measure yourself next to other people. 

Just do what you love to do-- Love learning-- Love to question. Yes, maybe people seem to 'naturally' do things-- But, that's only because they don't even remember when they learned to do it. It's normally when they're young, and they become interested in something. Don't let this discourage you.



> I've been wrestling more and more with the issue of how ignorant I am, how much I _don't_ know and _don't_ think about that plenty of others my age (and younger!) do and it disgusts me. And there's no possible way to catch up - by the time I do everyone else will be far ahead again.


Then go and learn. Quit complaining about what you don't know, and learn what you want to know. Who cares what 'level' other people are at? There will always be someone who is better than you at something, no matter how 'gifted' you are. You need to measure your own accomplishments against yourself, and your own merits. You need to stop projecting your insecurities on other people, and making them the excuse for why you aren't doing what you want to do.



> I kind of want to ask: how it this an intelligent insight? The closest I can think of is that old line about the wisdom of "the man who knows he doesn't know". Yet all this "knowledge" does is demotivate me. If I'm so far behind and catching up is impossible, why bother? I'll just look ridiculous.


Even if you live forever, you won't know everything. What level exactly are you trying to achieve? Do you want to learn for the sake of it, or just so that you can put a blue ribbon on yourself that says, "Awesomest person ever that knows up to level 120." There are no such levels in life. 

Who are you trying to catch up to? These are excuses.

You can become a polymath if you want. But, you have to work hard.

There used to be a lot more polymaths back in the 1800s-- Because people realized the truth of it. That if you apply interest, effort, and time, you will learn and become proficient, and then master any skill. People knew a handful of languages by a certain age, and could attach 'geologist', 'anthropologist' and 'astronomist' to their name. Not because they were 'naturally good at it', but because they didn't make excuses and give up. They applied themselves to what they wanted to learn, they learned it, and they continued learning until they died.

Learning isn't an excuse to be great. Learning is great by itself, and learning for learning's sake is more than what 80 % of people are doing anyway. 

So, stop making excuses, and go out there and accomplish what you want to. The only thing I see being in your way is yourself.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

@Word Dispenser: I was actually going to write a really snide response to your post about upbringing and intelligence, then I got slammed with this tough love post and decided against it.  Thanks.

Excuses and telling myself I can't and there's no point is easy. Taking the time to learn everything I keep feeling I need to learn is hard as heck. I think I know I project and blame and it's a tough loop to break. Yeah, I am the main thing in my way...me and my thoughts and constant comparison. Almost no one tells me I'm stupid or incompetent or worthless except me. And given the existence of this thread, I'm pretty good at convincing myself that my excuses are true. 

It seems the closest I've gotten yet to fixing anything is imagining myself filing my day with learning...and then going right back to messing around online or doing irrelevant things because...I'm lazy? I'm afraid to tackle my ignorance head on and wallowing is easier? General inertia? I'm not sure how to go about fixing that. "Just do it" doesn't seem to work or last long.

I've noticed lately that I give up easily - the more I fail the more I think I just can't do whatever it is so why bother to keep trying. 

Though, got thinking about _why_ I compare so much....I know that measuring against myself never feels like much since I don't have any real accomplishments even at this point in life. And that bothers me. Yeah, I'm not entirely sure yet.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> @_Word Dispenser_: I was actually going to write a really snide response to your post about upbringing and intelligence, then I got slammed with this tough love post and decided against it.  Thanks.
> 
> Excuses and telling myself I can't and there's no point is easy. Taking the time to learn everything I keep feeling I need to learn is hard as heck. I think I know I project and blame and it's a tough loop to break. Yeah, I am the main thing in my way...me and my thoughts and constant comparison. Almost no one tells me I'm stupid or incompetent or worthless except me. And given the existence of this thread, I'm pretty good at convincing myself that my excuses are true.
> 
> ...


I'm glad to see that you're opening the door to understanding why you're pushing yourself down. That's really good. And, yeah. It is hard. But, you can do it, and you are in a much better position to do so than many, many other people-- So consider yourself fortunate. Count your blessings. Do your best not to focus on the negative, because it will drag you into inertia again-- Believe me, I know. :kitteh: I struggle with it too.

I think starting small helps. I have ADD, and it's often an obstacle I have problems with. Getting stuff done-- The initiative is the hardest part.

I like to start by planning for 5 minutes. If you plan for 5 minutes a day, you'll find yourself dedicating more than what you planned. Then you can increase to 10 minutes.

So, say you want to be really good with mathematics. Well, make a study plan, and study for 5 minutes a day. That's 35 minutes a week. And that's 35 more minutes than a lot of other people are doing. And you might find that your weekly quota is a lot more than 35 minutes, and that's good.

I like the story of the tortoise and the hare. The hare goes off, and is lazy, thinking he'll win because he's quick. But, the tortoise keeps moving forward and progressing, and that's why he wins.

So, as long as you keep moving forward, you're better than you were yesterday. roud:


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@ScientiaOmnisEst

In your endless loop of self-deprecating pity, I invite you to consider a possibility: 

_Intelligence manifests itself differently in each of us.

_So you aren't unintelligent, you simply need to find out what your gifts are and start using them: 

Multiple Intelligences Test

No matter what, you have worth. You are important. You are meant to be here because _you are here_.

Also, you are not alone in your despair. About 7 weeks ago, I found out that the woman I have loved for nearly 20 years doesn't love me anymore. She divorced me. I'm all alone. I'm living in a studio apartment. I am almost 45, and I have to start all over again. I'm terrified, alone, bereft, and so very sad. I can't begin to describe all the memories I have of her; perfect moments that I can never forget, and yet I am supposed to just pick up and move on. But I don't want to move on. I want my life back. I want the house we shared. I want the security, warmth, and love, that she gave to me--and then cruelly took away from me. I want to hold her in my arms in our bed and feel her body against mine. I want one more trip to Europe. I want everything we promised each other--when we vowed to be together until the end. I miss our friendship, our companionship: those quiet moments when we didn't have to say a word because just being there, together, was enough.

So don't think you're alone in your despair. You are young. You have untapped potential. Don't squander it and don't take it for granted. Do something extraordinary, *be* something extraordinary, find a way. You don't have to live up to anyone elses' standards but your own. You're going to fail. You learn from the failures and don't make the same mistakes twice. Adapt, improvise, overcome. You want to improve your memory, there are techniques for that. Use your strengths to help you overcome your weaknesses.


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## Ermenegildo (Feb 25, 2014)

(French text)

*René Descartes: Discours de la methode pour bien conduire sa raison, & chercher la verité dans les sciences: plus la dioptrique, les meteores, et la geometrie, qui sont des essais de cete methode. (1637)*

*Good sense [bon sens]* is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for every one thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess. And in this it is not likely that all are mistaken the conviction is rather to be held as testifying that the power of judging aright and of distinguishing truth from error, which is properly what is called good sense or reason, is by nature equal in all men; and that the diversity of our opinions, consequently, does not arise from some being endowed with a larger share of reason than others, but solely from this, that we conduct our thoughts along different ways, and do not fix our attention on the same objects. For to be possessed of a vigorous mind is not enough; the prime requisite is rightly to apply it. The greatest minds, as they are capable of the highest excellences, are open likewise to the greatest aberrations; and those who travel very slowly may yet make far greater progress, provided they keep always to the straight road, than those who, while they run, forsake it.

For myself, I have never fancied my mind to be in any respect more perfect than those of the generality; on the contrary, I have often wished that I were equal to some others in promptitude of thought, or in clearness and distinctness of imagination, or in fullness and readiness of memory. And besides these, I know of no other qualities that contribute to the perfection of the mind; for as to the reason or sense, inasmuch as it is that alone which constitutes us men, and distinguishes us from the brutes, I am disposed to believe that it is to be found complete in each individual; and on this point to adopt the common opinion of philosophers, who say that the difference of greater and less holds only among the accidents, and not among the forms or natures of individuals of the same species. 

I will not hesitate, however, to avow my belief that it has been my singular good fortune to have very early in life fallen in with certain tracks which have conducted me to considerations and maxims, of which I have formed a method that gives me the means, as I think, of gradually augmenting my knowledge, and of raising it by little and little to the highest point which the mediocrity of my talents and the brief duration of my life will permit me to reach. For I have already reaped from it such fruits that, although I have been accustomed to think lowly enough of myself, and although when I look with the eye of a philosopher at the varied courses and pursuits of mankind at large, I find scarcely one which does not appear in vain and useless, I nevertheless derive the highest satisfaction from the progress I conceive myself to have already made in the search after truth, and cannot help entertaining such expectations of the future as to believe that if, among the occupations of men as men, there is any one really excellent and important, it is that which I have chosen. 

After all, it is possible I may be mistaken; and it is but a little copper and glass, perhaps, that I take for gold and diamonds. I know how very liable we are to delusion in what relates to ourselves, and also how much the judgments of our friends are to be suspected when given in our favor. But I shall endeavor in this discourse to describe the paths I have followed, and to delineate my life as in a picture, in order that each one may also be able to judge of them for himself, and that in the general opinion entertained of them, as gathered from current report, I myself may have a new help towards instruction to be added to those I have been in the habit of employing. 

My present design, then, is not to teach the method which each ought to follow for the right conduct of his reason, but solely to describe the way in which I have endeavored to conduct my own. They who set themselves to give precepts must of course regard themselves as possessed of greater skill than those to whom they prescribe; and if they err in the slightest particular, they subject themselves to censure. But as this tract is put forth merely as a history, or, if you will, as a tale, in which, amid some examples worthy of imitation, there will be found, perhaps, as many more which it were advisable not to follow, I hope it will prove useful to some without being hurtful to any, and that my openness will find some favor with all. 

From my childhood, I have been familiar with letters; and as I was given to believe that by their help a clear and certain knowledge of all that is useful in life might be acquired, I was ardently desirous of instruction. But as soon as I had finished the entire course of study, at the close of which it is customary to be admitted into the order of the learned, I completely changed my opinion. For I found myself involved in so many doubts and errors, that I was convinced I had advanced no farther in all my attempts at learning, than the discovery at every turn of my own ignorance.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/59/59-h/59-h.htm



ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> ScientiaOmnisEst


Not true.



> All I've ever wanted was to be gifted.


I have never heard that you can become gifted by wanting it. You could as well say that all you have ever wanted was to fly with your arms stretched as wings. And perhaps you don't know that being gifted is not much of a gift for the gifted? You can get rid of your _idée fixe_ by deconstructing it.



> What to Do When You Have Nothing?


Not true. You are a writer. Enough said.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

I tried that intelligences test @tanstaafl28 - scored highest on intrapersonal, followed by linguistic and logical. 


In the time I logged off I've been giving this thread some thought. Every now and then, I do just get these urges to act, these brainwaves of ideas of what I could do, things I want to do...but they would either require a lot of work, or money I don't have, or freedom I don't always have. 


If anything, I'm terribly aware of the gap between myself and my ideal self...mostly in terms of mental traits. Getting there....is going to take so long, if it's even possible. Like I mentioned before, I give up easily. And tend to see anything that doesn't come naturally as either 1) I can't do it, why try? or 2) Even if I could master it, I'd be inferior to those who do it naturally.


(Math is an excellent example. I've thought about training myself to be able to do rapid mental calculations. No real reason. It seems like something cool I'd like to be able to do. Oh, but what about the people who are naturally good at math? Who figured out these tricks I'm researching online by themselves, when they were far younger than I am. Maybe I shouldn't bother. I'd just be a fraud...Yes, this is more or less what I think. This is basically how I shut myself down, get in my own way, and eventually the frustration gets pent up til it results in a something like the OP)


Here's another thing: I mainly hold myself to my own standards. At least in the sense that I've never been told or had it implied by someone else that I'm no good if I'm not good at everything. My near-worship of intelligence started when I was fairly young, and has been a fixation in some way for much of my life (failing in college seemed to finally cause all the emotions associated with it to erupt). I was bright: I was good at school even though I found it boring (I never minded the fact that I wasn't "challenged" though. Easy schoolwork I could do in five minutes meant more time to read and daydream, and at the time I had a knack for absorbing information from any random source. The main reason I wanted to skip a grade was the prestige factor.* Like it was a badge of intelligence). Somehow I "figured out" that that was the only thing I'm good at. Being "smart". I'm not musical, not artistic. I'm not social or athletic. But I could retain information and regurgitate it efficiently. I had an advanced vocabulary and was a good writer. So that's my niche. Being smart and knowing things. As I got older, I realized that "synthesizing information and having ideas" are part of it too....


I've thought about this a few times before...where did my image of an "intelligent person" come from? Because it's really quite narrow, in what an "intelligent person" is allowed to do, like, believe, behave. Where did it come from? I don't know. Probably multiple sources. But it's there and has been for a long time. It even shows up in how I describe the things I can't do - create a new idea or discover or invent something. Given that some of my actual "dream projects" amount to little more than systems-building, I think I have some standards that don't directly relate to me.




*I...do not like admitting that.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Ermenegildo said:


> Not true.



LOL



> I have never heard that you can become gifted by wanting it. You could as well say that all you have ever wanted was to fly with your arms stretched as wings. And perhaps you don't know that being gifted is not much of a gift for the gifted? You can get rid of your _idée fixe_ by deconstructing it.


Well, no. You have to be born with it. I suppose what I mean is that I envy those who are intellectually gifted, such that I would rather be like that than like me. 

And the whole thing about "giftedness" not being so great....give me a reason why it isn't great, and I will turn it around and tell you why either it's not a problem for me, or why it's worth it in exchange for the accelerated learning and advanced understanding. I've done this exercise before. I think mere self-acceptance is what I'm better off trying.



> Not true. You are a writer. Enough said.


Most people can write. I just have a weird style.


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## Mee2 (Jan 30, 2014)

This is probably going to be a mess but whatever... 

So my first impressions upon reading this is that you're someone who can write quickly and coherently, and you're aware that you're not king shit. Sure, you've replaced that with another thinking pattern that's probably equally warped but to be honest I've always found the people who think less of themselves significantly less annoying than the ones who think they know everything. Obviously it's beyond my capacity to really know how intelligent you are and if you think whatever IQ test you did is accurate then sure, I'm not really in a position to disagree, but assuming you really are lacking in intelligence, it's not something that I would've noticed from reading your posts. And I do wonder what difference there is between being smart and just being really good at hiding your stupidity. Again, you write quickly and coherently. Not everyone can do that. Oh, and IQ tests are pretty controversial anyway. 

But I don't think this is a problem that can be solved by convincing you that you're actually smart, and I've a feeling that if I tried then you'd just start thinking that you're dumb for not realising how smart you are lol. The problem, from my perspective, is how you think about this stuff. The things you're saying about yourself... they sound a lot more meaningful than they really are. Words like, "useless," "incapable," "socially clueless"... they don't tell me much about you because to an extent everyone is those things and you haven't defined them. The effect... describing yourself like that doesn't actually tell me anything about who you really are, but it tells me a lot about how you think about yourself because you consistently pick words with strong negative connotations when words lacking those connotations could've been used in their place. In other words, you feel the need to berate yourself for traits or failings that others wouldn't be bothered by. People do this for different reasons. Some are scared not to, thinking that a kind of hyper-awareness of their is going to help them get better somehow. It's wrong and such thought patterns actually tend to be rather crippling but once the habit is in place... Others have internalised this idea that only some people truly deserve to feel good about themselves - a perspective that I personally feel is undermined by the fact that these elites of our society only really find themselves in that position because they were luckier than you. Both nature and nurture are beyond our control. Besides, self-hate is hardly uncommon among such people anyway. 

I said before that thinking the way you do is probably crippling, if anything, and I just want to emphasise that again because I think it's important. I don't think it's healthy to obsessively compare yourself to other people but if you want to "get smarter" or whatever, then maybe try to deal with this first. If you can figure out how to relax and not think about this stuff so much, you'll be able to focus on whatever goals you have much easier. It's a distraction, really. 

As a little side note, there's no shame in "following," as you call it. There's a lot of disagreement in the world and if you're smart enough to pick up on which sides make the most sense, and understand their arguments, then you're already doing a hell of a lot better than most people. Apart from that, if you try to think for yourself without "following" people, then all you're likely to come up with are unoriginal ideas that countless others have already presented in a much more refined way. It's a good skill but don't overvalue it.


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## SnowPharaoh (Mar 7, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> That's it, I'm asking the internet. I'm dropping out of school in a week or so, so that counseling I signed up for will never happen. And I need some external feedback.
> 
> 
> I've been falling apart lately, realizing more and more that, well, I'm a completely useless, empty shell of a human being. I have nothing internally. Nothing worthwhile. I've basically lost the ability to think, not that I ever really had it before (last night for example, I realized that I've never thought truly independently in my life, and I don't think I'm capable of doing so. That quote about "Those who see, those who are shown, and those who do not see"....the most I can ever be is one who is shown). I have no skills, nothing of use. I'm certainly not able to contribute anything meaningful to the world, not a new idea or a solution to an actually important issue. It's beyond me. _Everything_ is beyond me. Yet the idea of cowing to the intelligent and worthwhile just...makes me sick - of mindlessly marvelling at someone else's intellect rather than engaging it. Except I'm clearly not capable of the latter, and can't fess up to it.
> ...


You should write a book, I'd read it based on nothing else but your post, also "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

faraon1990temujin said:


> You should write a book, I'd read it based on nothing else but your post, also "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D.H. Lawrence


You are not the first person to tell me I should write a book. People here seem to like my writing - which...is interesting seeing as I mainly just write the way I think. As nice as these compliment are, a nice writing style only really means anything if the person has something interesting to say. And I don't, much of the time.


@_Mee2_: I get your point. I suppose I tend to jump to the most negative words possible to describe myself, no wonder my self-view gets so skewed so fast. Constant comparison will do that to you. There is one pertinent thing you said though:



> Others have internalised this idea that only some people truly deserve to feel good about themselves - a perspective that I personally feel is undermined by the fact that these elites of our society only really find themselves in that position because they were luckier than you.


The first half of that sentence is terribly relatable. A feeling - however irrational - that I don't deserve self-love or confidence yet. I'm not good enough, not competent enough, not accomplished enough. I'm not a fan of empty compliments. I don't want to be confident or whatever because I exist, but because I'm actually worthy by some measure. Unfortunately my idea of "worthy" is way more for myself that for anyone else to the point of near impossibility.

I think what I need are actual tips on is how to make one's standards more realistic, without swinging from "I must become perfect or I'm worthless" to "I'm going to fail at everything I do so who cares?"


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## Blue Soul (Mar 14, 2015)

I also thought about complimenting you for your writing, it suggests that you are very intelligent contrary to your self-doubts. And you obviously have interesting things to say, just look at all the people in this thread. Write a book already!


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## SnowPharaoh (Mar 7, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> You are not the first person to tell me I should write a book. People here seem to like my writing - which...is interesting seeing as I mainly just write the way I think. As nice as these compliment are, a nice writing style only really means anything if the person has something interesting to say. And I don't, much of the time.
> 
> Actually your writing style isn't too appealing to me, it's just that you have an aura of sadness about you that I've personally noticed in a lot of great writers, as to not having anything to say, well everyone has anything to say, the only question if what you have to say will be universally understood and accepted, personally I think you should just go out and live life, be a wild thing, don't overthink things and then maybe if you have the will and fortitude write some of your impressions down


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## Psychophant (Nov 29, 2013)

You're probably the last person I would have expected to make a thread like this (your avatar used to be the woman with the electric orb, no?). Anyway, I could give a canned bit about IQ not being relevant or whatever, but I'm not sure how useful or accurate it is, so I'll save it. You always struck me as a bright person (as I mentioned), and your diction, grammar, and basically everything else you said seem to corroborate that so I'm kind of skeptical of whatever test you took (there are many types and online ones are generally not accurate). Either way, I think it's likely that you hold yourself to unrealistic standards. People have the expectation that you can't be good at something if it doesn't come very quickly to you, and I think that's silly. I saw plenty of people struggle and then see great success in my classes this term, and I have no doubt that they're all intelligent people. 

I also don't believe that most people formulate particularly profound or novel thoughts independently, even if they like to believe they do. Besides, what makes you believe your thoughts are so mundane in the first place? We've been pondering our reasons for existing on this rock for thousands of years now, so it's quite likely that a few of the billions of humans who preceded you had a similar thought at one point in time, and maybe a few published it.

Anyway, that's not super organized or helpful, but I'll say this much: I've known a few people in my life who really did seem too unintelligent to properly introspect and mature as people, and that's a really unfortunate thing. You clearly aren't one of these people, so if you set aside your fears of failure, figure out your strengths, and play to them, I think you'll be very successful. Also, you're 20, so you have a little time to figure it out. Good luck.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

I was going to let this thread be, then some similar thoughts/feels that prompted it into existence started boiling again, so I may as well take the time to respond while it's fresh.

There's a part of me that's outright grandiose. I want to be able to intimidate people with my intellect, or at the very least, avoid being intellectually intimidated. I never want to be made to look stupid. I want to be able to engage in serious conversation and be right. Possibly even prove the other wrong, but that would just be a bonus. I never want to appear stupid, never want to be the one going "OMG you're sooo smart" (I want them saying that to _me_, dammit!); I want to be the one who astonishes everyone with their knowledge, not the one being amazed. Yes, I'm a freaking narcissist inside. That's another issue for elsewhere, I think.

Whoever it was that mentioned how I describe myself with such negative terms but don't define them, this is kind of related to that. To be useless, worthless, incompetent and stupid is to appear to lack knowledge in discussion or argument, to be stumped by questions, to hold an untenable position (and my positions always end up untenable), to think you're right and be proven wrong. 

I'm incredibly ignorant on nearly every subject. By comparison, there are plenty of people my own age who can intellectually intimidate people older than themselves with their knowledge and reason. For whatever reason, I have an intense fear of encountering such people, of what they'll do to me psychologically. Whether it's public humiliation or private rejection, knowing that someone is probably sneering in disgust at my stupidity and ignorance, or would gladly take advantage of it and me, scares me half to death. The only way I could protect myself such, is to be brilliant. But I'm not and it's too late to learn how to match wits with anyone. 

I really shouldn't even be writing this, but maybe some of you won't want to use it against me and actually have ideas as to how to remedy it.

@Yomiel: I wanted to mention that the IQ portion of it actually isn't all that big of a deal to me. The last test I took was about 6 months ago, found it through PerC, actually. It was a Raven's progressive matrices test and I scored 106. So basically average.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> I'm 20. I'm not particularly good at anything. And everything I said about doubting my ability to think and learn is true. And it's so damn late in life, I wonder if it's even worth trying?


20 is late? Honey I had to start over at 36, you've got plenty of time.


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## Psychophant (Nov 29, 2013)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> @Yomiel: I wanted to mention that the IQ portion of it actually isn't all that big of a deal to me. The last test I took was about 6 months ago, found it through PerC, actually. It was a Raven's progressive matrices test and I scored 106. So basically average.


Oh, _that_ thing. Right, that's technically an above average score on an unofficial advanced raven test from some Danish wing of Mensa (I'm going to assume that's what you're talking about at least)... That doesn't make your IQ "statistically among the lowest," even if we assumed the results were credible. Besides, the type of person you want to be sounds petty and egotistical. Intelligence should be a means to an end, so set a goal and figure out how to attain it rather than worrying about your ego. And hey, life's not fair, but you can at least be grateful that you don't need to worry about being branded "below average."

Oh, and I feel you on the narcissist bit.. or I at least think I do, though sometimes I can't tell if it's that or self-loathing. Seems to be a common occurrence among social outcast types (not to imply that you are one, but you said you were somewhat asocial). Grasping for some modicum of false superiority just won't get you very far, I'm afraid.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Yes, I'm a freaking narcissist inside.


Welcome to humanity. 




ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> By comparison, there are plenty of people my own age who can intellectually intimidate people older than themselves with their knowledge and reason.


I wonder if you're reading these situations right though. Um....when I was 20 I was dead smart, knew everything and could outsmart everyone. Now I'm over 40 I realised I was an idiot who simply wasn't self aware enough to realise when she was making an arse of herself in public. When 20yr olds go on the offensive with me with some cockamamy idea about a subject I am well versed in, I don't always argue back. You know why? 

- There's no point trying to educate an idiot, they can't hear you. 
- Life is the best teacher in the world. Often it's of more value to let someone figure it out on their own rather than give them a lecture they are not inclined to hear. 
- Ego is a wonderful thing, it will convince someone that silence on the end of a conversation means they've won, they're right...the other person is stumped by their brilliance. Yet the reality might actually be points 1 & 2. I simply understand the frame of mind they are in and how big a waste of time it's going to be for me to try and unravel it. I'd rather conserve my energy for things that actually matter. 

I'm not saying young people don't know anything or have nothing of value. But as someone who was a young person once and has a different frame of reference now I realise why not every argument is worth engaging in and also the basic limits to human intelligence. The older I get, the dumber I realise we are as a species. Seeing the same patterns repeat over and over with the same rhetoric and reactions each time, does that.


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

You think you're ignorant on every subject and yet you don't want to meet those who are more knowledgeable. That's just your problem.

I love meeting people who know more than I do. They are an opportunity to learn even more. In correcting me, they're teaching me. That's all.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Yomiel said:


> Oh, _that_ thing. Right, that's technically an above average score on an unofficial advanced raven test from some Danish wing of Mensa (I'm going to assume that's what you're talking about at least)... That doesn't make your IQ "statistically among the lowest," even if we assumed the results were credible.


Above average? I thought the average range was 100-115 or something like that? That would make me firmly average. 



> Besides, the type of person you want to be sounds petty and egotistical. Intelligence should be a means to an end, so set a goal and figure out how to attain it rather than worrying about your ego. And hey, life's not fair, but you can at least be grateful that you don't need to worry about being branded "below average."
> 
> Oh, and I feel you on the narcissist bit.. or I at least think I do, though sometimes I can't tell if it's that or self-loathing. Seems to be a common occurrence among social outcast types (not to imply that you are one, but you said you were somewhat asocial). Grasping for some modicum of false superiority just won't get you very far, I'm afraid.


I wanted to start out by saying that I know this topic (intelligence) brings out my egotistical, ego-defending side that doesn't really think straight. However: it's not false superiority if I actually know what I'm talking about. Then it's just being as good as someone else. I can see how petty and egotistical such behavior could be...yet when I think of it, I tend to expect knowing more than others would just be a natural side effect of high intelligence. 

Regarding goals: I tend to fear that I'm not smart enough to actually tackle a project or meet a goal. So fixing my intelligence itself would be the first order of business before I attempt anything else. But intelligence increasing is difficult, some claim it's impossible. So what to do? If I can't fall back on my mind, I have nothing as a person (hence this thread). So how can I have goals? I'm not smart enough! It's poor thinking, but it's the kind of loop I get myself into. 

However, something else occurred to me. You're gifted. You went to a gifted school. You're intelligent and you know it. You never need to worry about anything being beyond you intellectually - if you don't already know it, you can figure it out easily. So...how can you understand what it's like from my end? What it's like being average and hating it? You're already brilliant. If you struggle, it will be because you're overthinking, or because the system is irrational or the learning tools insufficient. When I struggle, it's because I have no idea what's going on, I can't remember what connects to what or follows what, I thought I understood the concepts but putting them into practice is a disaster... Education was designed for people like me - SJ types of average intelligence - so when I'm lost and failing the problem is with me.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

InSolitude said:


> 20 is late? Honey I had to start over at 36, you've got plenty of time.


I shouldn't argue this but....I'm 20 and I haven't even started anything. Let alone starting over. Plenty of other people seem to be on their way to something. Many even younger already have real accomplishments. So what the hell am I doing? Besides nothing.




InSolitude said:


> I wonder if you're reading these situations right though. Um....when I was 20 I was dead smart, knew everything and could outsmart everyone. Now I'm over 40 I realised I was an idiot who simply wasn't self aware enough to realise when she was making an arse of herself in public. When 20yr olds go on the offensive with me with some cockamamy idea about a subject I am well versed in, I don't always argue back. You know why?
> 
> - There's no point trying to educate an idiot, they can't hear you.
> - Life is the best teacher in the world. Often it's of more value to let someone figure it out on their own rather than give them a lecture they are not inclined to hear.
> - Ego is a wonderful thing, it will convince someone that silence on the end of a conversation means they've won, they're right...the other person is stumped by their brilliance. Yet the reality might actually be points 1 & 2. I simply understand the frame of mind they are in and how big a waste of time it's going to be for me to try and unravel it. I'd rather conserve my energy for things that actually matter.


I can't tell the difference though. I'm not knowledgeable enough about anything. That's the problem. I'm easily impressed and intimidated and I hate that. And my ego won't allow me to compliment someone's intelligence - that's basically placing them above me (I was thinking about my last post here last night and it occurred to me that taking a person or group of people as a standard might do the same thing. Saying you try to think more like someone or be more like them is basically saying you're inferior to them, and that emulating this person would be an improvement to you). 

And to remedy this would take so damn long that whatever I learned might not even be relevant by the time I master it...

At least internet discussion allows one to open a new tab and check if what the person's saying is right or makes any sense. Though, I guess I tend to just think "Why would they lie? Why would they make up information?" Yeah, I'm naive. And probably projecting. But I genuinely don't know much of the time.




Shimmerleaf said:


> You think you're ignorant on every subject and yet you don't want to meet those who are more knowledgeable. That's just your problem.
> 
> I love meeting people who know more than I do. They are an opportunity to learn even more. In correcting me, they're teaching me. That's all.


There are ways to learn without annoying people with your stupidity or just plain looking ridiculous. Books and the internet - videos, online articles and texts, reading archived discussions of a subject without actually participating and humiliating myself.


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## Psychophant (Nov 29, 2013)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Above average? I thought the average range was 100-115 or something like that? That would make me firmly average.


Assuming it's a credible test, average is 100 and standard deviation is 15, so ~2/3 of the population fall between 85 and 115. Some might call any score in that range "average," but anything above 100 is technically above average. Either way, to be below average in a statistically significant way, you'd have to be under 85.


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## bmwoodson (Jan 7, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> @Yomiel: I wanted to mention that the IQ portion of it actually isn't all that big of a deal to me. The last test I took was about 6 months ago, found it through PerC, actually. It was a Raven's progressive matrices test and I scored 106. So basically average.


You know, often what you don't know is the only thing that can hurt you.

The test designer and maintainer, through private email to an online acquaintance, communicated that (because of the test's unique norming) reported scores are underestimated by about a standard deviation. Accordingly, your score from that test should actually be about 10 - 15 points higher.

116 - 121 is above average, right? :dry:


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

bmwoodson said:


> You know, often what you don't know is the only thing that can hurt you.
> 
> The test designer and maintainer, through private email to an online acquaintance, communicated that (because of the test's unique norming) reported scores are underestimated by about a standard deviation. Accordingly, your score from that test should actually be about 10 - 15 points higher.
> 
> 116 - 121 is above average, right? :dry:


Okay. Fine. I'm a little above average. It's still not genius and for the most part puts a cap on what I can do in life. 

That's what I'm trying to accept/get past.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

Well I'm not going to try and tell you you're intelligent if you think you're not because I'm pretty sure that you're convinced of whatever opinion of yourself it is you've formed. But here's my impressions from your post. 

- You seem to have decided that intellectuals are the ants pants of the human race. This is odd, because every intellectual I know is about as useful as tits on a bull. I'm putting this down to your culture that places a stupid level of confidence in things like university education. Smart people know this emphasis on university education is a giant con to keep a profitable industry alive. 

- Please name these amazing accomplishments of your peers, because I can pretty much guarantee that as impressive as they sound, they're probably not such a big deal when you're aware of where these accomplishments end up. Even without knowing them, I can know that 99% of your peers are going to end up as middle level managers in a dull cubicle office earning an average income, have two kids and suffer a mid-life divorce in which their finances go down the toilet. That's the story of life for most people in the world. 

- What are you expecting of yourself at 20? Is it possible they are unrealistic expectations? I know it seems like we were all born to change the world, become the next billionaire and the like. I believed that too. You're doing well if you've held a job for 5yrs straight at 29 to be honest. Most young people get fired from their first few jobs because of that brash exuberance young people are known for. It's just the way it goes. But of course the media love to showcase some twat who's annoyingly successful at a level most can never achieve just for the fun of sharing the inadequacy around. Learn to laugh at this, and yourself. Most of us lead lives of sheer comedy rather than success. 

- The way I see it. You're 2yrs out of high school. In my country that means you should have 'achieved' a year wasted on drugs and alcohol, made an unwise car purchase, and have about $10k in credit card debt from your backpacking trip around SE Asia. You're definately still living with mum and dad and made zero impact on the world. No-one in your age bracket is doing anything marvellous here. Chill and enjoy the fact you've got no wrinkles.


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## bmwoodson (Jan 7, 2015)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> Okay. Fine. I'm a little above average.


I just wanted to show that you are likely mistaken in your undervaluing assessment of your intelligence.



ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> It's still not genius and for the most part puts a cap on what I can do in life.


No, it doesn't. Contrary to what you've been told, level of intelligence can be raised. I'm not talking about mere test-taking ability either, but actual intelligence. Little known progress is currently being made in this regard.



ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> That's what I'm trying to accept/get past.


I fervently agree with you and the other posters that you should learn to accept your present limitations. Trust me when I say that intellectual megalomania can have ruinous effects on your long-term happiness and, ironically, your intelligence. And it will almost assuredly have serious, unpredictable, far-reaching effects in other areas of your life.


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jun 6, 2014)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UwDDNuOWvb0

No offence, but your post made me laugh and laugh. I don't mean to cause you pain, but someone once told me how much life is about perspective and that I seemed to be worrying too much about certain things. He gave me the example of 9/11 possibly being funny or a nuclear holocaust. At the time I refused to "get it" because I was so hung up on "this is what is right"/"this is the way it needs to be." I never got how funny I must have seemed to him until just now. In conclusion, you sound like annie from community ie a bit of a perfectionist, a bit anal, and an overachiever. This is good, you'll probably learn from your mistake and come out successful in the end, but perhaps a bit more humble and able to relate to the struggles of others this is just the episode where you have your high school nervous breakdown.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

@bmwoodson: I see your point. I almost want to ask how exactly "intellectual megalomania" can impact life and intelligence, but I think I'll just leave it. 



Tezcatlipoca said:


> In conclusion, you sound like Annie from community ie a bit of a perfectionist, a bit anal, and an overachiever. This is good, you'll probably learn from your mistake and come out successful in the end, but perhaps a bit more humble and able to relate to the struggles of others this is just the episode where you have your high school nervous breakdown.


This struck me because I'm actually not most of those things: perfectionistic, sure, but only in theory. Anal retentive, not too often. Overachiever? HA! I've been an underachiever all my life, never put in much effort, never cared enough, never won anything or been formally recognized for any achievement because I have no achievements. And I think suddenly waking up and realizing all the things I could have been doing while I was holed up in my imagination is kind of...making me crazy. I lack all this experience, all this skill that many others my own age have. So I think, how can I catch up? How can I make something of myself and become everything I want to be even with so many years lost? 

However, your video is actually a fairly accurate representation of the attitude my mind is taking towards life right now.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Here we go:



InSolitude said:


> - You seem to have decided that intellectuals are the ants pants of the human race. This is odd, because every intellectual I know is about as useful as tits on a bull. I'm putting this down to your culture that places a stupid level of confidence in things like university education. Smart people know this emphasis on university education is a giant con to keep a profitable industry alive.


College and I don't seem to mix. I'm dropping out soon. In moments of confidence, I've considered finding work and basically being a kind of independent autodidact, living fairly simply and learning whatever I want as I please. This...doesn't go over well in my family. At all. If you're not college educated you're basically the scum of the earth and are deemed completely incapable of learning ever again; going to college is seen as the only way to become a lifelong learner. 

Aside from that, you are correct in your assessment that I prize intelligence above all, and see intellectuals as superior. Because they are, in terms of comprehension of what's around them. The idea of being just another mindless, accepting drone with no complex or original thoughts is rather frightening to me. Calling myself any of those things is basically my having a breakdown (ala Tezcatlipoca's linked video) exactly because it's so unnerving and even repulsive to me to think that I'm like that.




> - Please name these amazing accomplishments of your peers, because I can pretty much guarantee that as impressive as they sound, they're probably not such a big deal when you're aware of where these accomplishments end up. Even without knowing them, I can know that 99% of your peers are going to end up as middle level managers in a dull cubicle office earning an average income, have two kids and suffer a mid-life divorce in which their finances go down the toilet. That's the story of life for most people in the world.


Okay. I don't really have any friends or peer group I compare myself to. The comparisons are more to random people I encounter online or read about in articles. And yes, they exist. 13-year-old inventors and web and game developers, 16-year-olds graduating university, 20-year-olds who run businesses, 15-year-olds itching to discuss theoretical physics...it's not just the outright accomplishments, but the nature of it. It's being so knowledgeable and deep-thinking at a young age, younger than I am, at least. It's kids who, on logic alone, predicted scientific advancements, or who can extrapolate a book or film from the first five minutes. These people exist - you can find some of them on this very forum - and it bothers me, disgusts me even, that I'm not one of them. Because what will there be left for me to do? These are the people who are going to make a difference somehow, who have the intellectual prowess to understand what's important or devise solutions to major problems. Not underachieving screw-ups like me.

That's how I think of it, at least. *waits for storm of comments*




> - What are you expecting of yourself at 20? Is it possible they are unrealistic expectations? I know it seems like we were all born to change the world, become the next billionaire and the like. I believed that too. You're doing well if you've held a job for 5yrs straight at 29 to be honest. Most young people get fired from their first few jobs because of that brash exuberance young people are known for. It's just the way it goes. But of course the media love to showcase some twat who's annoyingly successful at a level most can never achieve just for the fun of sharing the inadequacy around. Learn to laugh at this, and yourself. Most of us lead lives of sheer comedy rather than success.


See above. That's almost what I expected of myself, even though it's too late for any of that now. I'm not knowledgeable about anything, and am genuinely worried that I'm barely capable of abstract thought. If I can't think, I'm basically nothing. And nothing I try seems to change this view. 

For whatever reason, the real world always seemed boring to me. Liek I wanted more than just existence. There has to be something more interesting, more exciting than this mundane life. I think that's why I spent so much time just in my head - it was a lot more interesting in there. So maybe that's translating into reality now, where the idea of _just_ working for a living and achieving_ nothing_ of actual value...I don't want it. At least let it be a springboard to something better. 

Yes, I'm probably going to get told to grow up and no, I'm never going to do anything important so just stop worrying yeah, yeah....I've heard it, actually.



> - The way I see it. You're 2yrs out of high school. In my country that means you should have 'achieved' a year wasted on drugs and alcohol, made an unwise car purchase, and have about $10k in credit card debt from your backpacking trip around SE Asia. You're definately still living with mum and dad and made zero impact on the world. No-one in your age bracket is doing anything marvellous here. Chill and enjoy the fact you've got no wrinkles.


Heh. True, I haven't done any of that. Including make an impact, negative or positive.


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## Ragarhan (Mar 19, 2015)

I don't think many people are gifted starting from birth, they make themselves talented by trusting themselves and practicing endlessly. You can become "gifted" too, if you really want to. At least that's how it has been to me; I learned to draw by myself and developed the skill by practicing (like pretty much everyone else does), there was no talent at any point.

Of course there are some things that come more naturally to others but people aren't the same and that just has to be accepted. Different people can use their abilities in different ways. What are your ways, you should probably find out. But motivation is something that one should have to success at things. And motivation can also be created, it's not always thing that should come naturally (at least to me it isn't, haha, I many times have to create the motivation to do things). But if you really think that you are not that kind of person who could be gifted, could you use your giftlessness as an advantage? Haha, you probably could, if you just thought about it.

Do you have any goals in life? Judging by the text you wrote, you don't. It's pretty normal these days, but you could find one. Make that goal your passion and huge part of your life, and life starts to feel worth living again. And it could be anything. It could be, for example, drinking coffee. Or watching sports. There's too many possibilities in world, so don't think yourself as a useless person. There's always something that you can do. Find something to do that you love and you probably start to see positive things in life again (to be honest, this sounds so lame but that's pretty much how it is, isn't it?).

And is trying worth it? Hell yeah, it is, since life becomes more likeable place to live when you learn more about yourself. You can use your features as you like when you know what they are. And you know, we're all the same that way; individuals who try to find/do something they like and love. Everyone has their bad sides and... actually, I bet you know this stuff, you could just try new things and learn more about life and the universe and yourself because I think you're thinking the world smaller than it actually is. Being gifted in this world doesn't really matter to normal people; after all most of the population are just people who go to work five times a week and try to bring the bread to the table. Sure, media shows us a lot of people who have succeed in their lives a lot but usually the most important people are those who do normal jobs (cleaning, guarding, office working, aiding) but for some reason people just don't appreciate them, even though without them many of us wouldn't be alive.

And remember, life isn't a competition, you shouldn't compare yourself to others. Everyone is their own individual and have their own weaknesses. Nobody's perfect. You most likely already know, but have you truly accepted these thoughts? Because I can imagine how painful life must be if you think everything in comparison to others. You should always do things for yourself (I mean like learning math or how to be more intelligent), trying to learn for others doesn't bring you far and you just become depressed and sad.
...
Reading the thread further some people have complimented your writing style and I like it too. Are you just ignoring your good sides? Have you thought about your best features even once? You have them, I know it. Maybe you're feeling negative and are blind to the nice things about yourself? You could really start writing something, why not? What's holding you back? The thought that others might be better? Pfft, there's no such thing in writing, since there are so many different people and opinions, preferences etc...


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## Tetsuo Shima (Nov 24, 2014)

When I'm bored of everything I have, I look for more free apps to download.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> All I've ever wanted was to be gifted. To be intellectually superior. To be talented and clever. To contribute something of value to humanity. But I'm not, and I can't. And it's killing me. Knowing how much I must infuriate the actually intelligent people of the world, how they must sneer at me, look at me with disgust at my stupidity, abhor my plodding, boring, unthinking presence and how I'm too stupid to get their references. Goddammit, I wanted to be one of them. There's no point in even learning for myself, since I'll never be able to learn to any high level, or put it to any inventive, interesting use. And my memory isn't good enough for me to even just be a mindless repository of facts. This site managed to simultaneously suppress and reveal my real self: when I typed as an NT I actually mistook myself for an intelligent person. But that's not true. I was just being exposed to more intellectual topics, which prompted me to think and learn about them more. That's not intelligence, everyone does that. There was never any real though there. And now I see that. Sure, it did wonders for my self-confidence, but it was lies too. And I don't want lies.


You've been in academia too much and it has corrupted your perspective on the world.

There is something that trumps intelligence most of the time and that is execution. Execution is results, where is intelligence is just fluff until it is put into action. Sure, if you want to be hired at a college somewhere, the brainy stuff matters but in the real world execution is more useful.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Shimmerleaf said:


> I'm sorry your therapy visits aren't working out now. I hope you will be able to get some help in that regard some time soon.
> 
> I say this as an NT: those type threads are narcissistic hot air. There are so many stereotypes and misconceptions about all the types and about intelligence in general and pay those threads no mind. There are many young NTs on here who don't appreciate the logic in recognizing and acknowledging the emotional realm, and in participating in human interactions. It's partly due to immaturity and partly due to buying into type stereotypes. For types that claim to think outside the box, eschewing the human element and embracing logic only is very much in the box when it comes to MBTI stereotypes. Not to mention it's narrow-minded.


I'm never sure what to believe when listening to people talk about themselves on a forum. I know I tend to be brutally honest in the anonymity of the internet, so when I see people regaling stories of outwitting their university professors or describing how they glimpsed the inner workings of the universe while working on their algebra homework back in the seventh grade...I just kind of assume it's true. Which is probably projecting and a bit naive.

And it's not always young ones. I've seen older NTs describe viewing everything as data or only just learning how to take their preferences into account when making decisions. And I'm still not entirely accepting of my own way of thinking...whatever it is.



> Why don't you start more threads about your abstract ideas? You can also research how controversial intelligence as a concept is. The only way to become more knowledgeable and skilled is to practice discussion and argumentation. Put yourself out there and ask lots of questions! You don't seem dumb at all to me.


It probably says something that my first thought upon reading this was "What abstract ideas? I don't have any thoughts or ideas that deserve a thread. Maybe a comment, but not a thread." Maybe that's part of the problem too.

Hm. Maybe if I think of something I could try to post it. See, all I'm thinking _now_ is that it would just end up getting laughed at and decimated, shown to be totally wrong and ridiculous. Which is also probably the exact problem.


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> I'm never sure what to believe when listening to people talk about themselves on a forum. I know I tend to be brutally honest in the anonymity of the internet, so when I see people regaling stories of outwitting their university professors or describing how they glimpsed the inner workings of the universe while working on their algebra homework back in the seventh grade...I just kind of assume it's true. Which is probably projecting and a bit naive.
> 
> And it's not always young ones. I've seen older NTs describe viewing everything as data or only just learning how to take their preferences into account when making decisions. And I'm still not entirely accepting of my own way of thinking...whatever it is.
> 
> ...


Trust me, those old NTs are washed up and mean.

Let me know if you decide to make a thread. You won't get laughed at. It's good practice to discuss, and in my experience, even getting proved wrong is just another way to help me improve.


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## HeartCartography (Mar 23, 2015)

Posted by @ScientiaOmnisEst "It probably says something that my first thought upon reading this was "What abstract ideas? I don't have any thoughts or ideas that deserve a thread. Maybe a comment, but not a thread." Maybe that's part of the problem too."


If you made a thread about cute, fluffy things I would totally read it and add a post 

I know you were talking about abstract ideas and elevated concepts but honestly the world could do with more laughs and cuteness to balance out the heaviness. And, letting the brain synapses rest often leads to breakthroughs in thought


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## Mr. Demiurge (Jun 18, 2014)

ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> *I'm 20.* I'm not particularly good at anything. And everything I said about doubting my ability to think and learn is true. *And it's so damn late in life,* I wonder if it's even worth trying?


...at the very least, I'd refrain from writing yourself off at friggin' 20 years old. Save that sort of despair for 40, or at the very least 30.


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## Vox (Mar 16, 2012)

*Edit:* Wow, that was a lot longer than I thought. Uhh...I guess I'll put it in a spoiler? Hah...

I realize you've stated before that you don't want to keep posting in this thread, but I wanted to drop a post anyway. (And man do I suck at writing long, clear posts.)


* *




First, I don't know how your mind works, so it's possible that absolutely nothing I'm going to say will change it; to an extent, you really do need to convince yourself on your own. The only way I ever managed to climb (partway; I'm still working on it) out of my self-defeating pit was to crush my own previously held assumptions and build myself a ladder of new ones. Yeah, looking back on it, it kind of does feel like something just magically changed one day, but that wasn't the case. I had _some _external help, but in the end I did most of the legwork, and it took (is taking) a hell of a long time. I say this because even after seven pages, I still can't tell if you _really_ want to change. Having at least some understanding of what it feels like, it still seems a little bit like you're anchoring yourself to your current spot, whether consciously or not. I hope I'm wrong, because I do think that the place where you want to change while sabotaging yourself is the worst place to be in during this entire process.

What I said above is also in part caused by your adherence to type distinctions. As others have stated before, it's counterproductive to put so much emphasis on what type you (think you) are and lamenting that you're not that other type or that you have absolutely nothing in common with this type you like. Yes, a person of any type can have X quality (intelligence, in this case, and also creativity). But more importantly, you seem to be using it to feed into your own self-loathing and in turn reducing yourself to...well, to a not-person. If you need to, divorce yourself from typology until you can think about it without using only negative statements ("I'm incapable of thinking logically or following an argument") to describe your personality and your type. It shouldn't be anything more than secondary when you introspect. I kind of have trouble explaining this; the point is that the label you settle on doesn't change how you perceive yourself - if anything at all, it is what you come to realize about yourself that does. Maybe you do know this, but for some reason you still keep getting hung up on type. I reiterate: if you need to, try to completely detach yourself from it for a while.

(At this point I've given up on making this post a cohesive whole; sorry for the disjointedness.) One of the things people say a lot is to stop comparing yourself to other people. Fine thing to say, but it doesn't do shit to say it. I've been told that countless times, and I still can't stop doing it. It's not easy to make that change; if you're like me in this regard, then it's just automatic. It's not going to stop from sheer force of will. You can try to suppress it, but suppression will ultimately always be a method of delay, not a solution. What I've done to try to deal with it is to adopt a different perspective: use the comparisons you make to determine what and how much you can learn from someone and to inspire yourself instead of using them to measure how inferior/superior you are to another person.

For example - I naturally have minimal social sense; I tend to say things that hurt other people, and I even have trouble realizing I've hurt them until someone points it out to me. I've always envied other people who seemed to navigate any social situation with ease and who were unimaginably (to me) acute when it came to others' thoughts and feelings. So I worked and I've been working to try to patch up this glaring weakness of mine. I'd say I'm passable at this point, though I still make mistakes and slip up often. I know I'm horrendous in this area, so I constantly ask people for feedback in order to learn and adjust.

It's harder to operate like that regarding something you have _some_ ability for (or at least believe you do). I have some of the worst social skills I've ever encountered, so it wasn't that difficult for me to exercise humility and seek improvement there. Intelligence and knowledge have been a more difficult arena for me. Here, I relate to a lot of what you've written (though there are some distinct differences). Having recently entered college has also set me back somewhat because the academic bar has suddenly shot up (in comparison to high school), which just makes me feel that much more insufficient. It doesn't help that I'm lazy, can't sit through long readings most of the time, and don't tend to actively research things on my own. I like to learn through discussion, and my poor social skills and some level of social anxiety usually make that pretty hard. The result is that I feel like I'm so ignorant of everything, feel like I haven't read even 1% of the things I should have read by now, and feel like I can't participate in discussions because I barely know anything about the subject. Which majorly sucks.

But y'know, at this point I'm done with not doing much about it. I gotta get off my ass if I want to stand a chance. I really hate losing and I hate disappointing anyone, including myself. But more than that, I_ want to know_. Realizing how ignorant I am just makes me want to pick up a book and start reading because the world has suddenly gotten that much bigger, deeper, _vaster_. It's a slow process for sure - you'll notice I'm on PerC writing a long ass post instead of reading - but I have that motivation now. And it's not just about how much more I'm going to read. I'm ignorant, I know it, and I want to change that. There are so many more people who know more than me. Why not learn from them? Yeah, I'm admitting that I'm in some way inferior to them. So what? My goal is to learn and understand. I'd love to be outstanding at something, to not feel uncomfortably inferior to others (it happens and it's probably still going to happen for a while), but that's not a goal that drives me. It never really was one. I want to sincerely enjoy what I do - in the same way I enjoyed things as a kid. How good I am at something comes second to that.

There's a lot of things I can say about this subject. Hell, this stuff - (_waves hands around)_ - has pretty much been most of my life so far; I can write pages upon pages about this. But this is already pretty long and I don't even know if anything I've said is going to be helpful in any way, so I'll just conclude by saying that the single biggest thing that has let me get where I'm at now (which isn't necessarily something to brag about but, hey, for me it's a lot of improvement) is embracing all of my numerous flaws. Crush all of those excuses and rationalizations. Realize your strengths and weaknesses for what they are. Find out what you really want and what makes you happy - you might even find it slightly different from what you expected (but simultaneously familiar). Struggle through it.

I sincerely hope the best for you. :happy:

Now please excuse me while I go work off all the cheesy cliché-ness of what I said.



Oh, by the way, it's totally okay with me if you air any disagreements with what I've said, especially if I said something about you that was wrong. That's probably a given, but I just want to make sure. Feedback! :crazy: 'Course, you can also completely ignore my post. Though that might make me a little sad, haha.


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