# How to understand Fe and Fi users



## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

So as an ENTJ I've always found it extremely difficult to really understand Fe and Fi users, I generally have to just decide whether I like/owe this person enough to play along with his/her demands/opinions when their decisions were made emotionally meaning I can never really understand it and just dismiss it as doing them a favor.

Example:
We are driving to our vacation, my ex gf and I decide that we're hungry so we want to stop for food, IMO obviously we would stop at somewhere along the way (efficient, logically sound, makes sense) but she wants to go to some far away place coz her friend told her about this place that had good reviews so I ask her why that place is worth driving 25kms for and she said "she just felt like it" (Deviating from our plan, inefficient, illogical). 

Can I understand this decision from her? No, seems illogical, inefficient and abit stupid considering I specifically asked whether that place was soooo amazing that its worth driving 25kms out of our way for and she didn't give any reason as to why it was worth it i.e it's a Michelin star restaurant or it's the only place in the country that serves a particular cuisine meaning we could try something new, literally no reason besides she "felt like it" wtf?

How are you supposed to understand other people's feelings? It just feels like I'm catering to a princess.


----------



## Evitez/Le/Divan (Feb 9, 2021)

I don't know if I am NT. 

I think it's pretty useless too but I think the big problem is the "understand". I don't see anything too understand, the girl don't understand herself so. Just accept it ( the love worth 25km lol)


----------



## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

It's nothing but personal preference, which is not the same thing as emotions. 

Maybe some people aren't very good at explaining why they prefer what they prefer or they don't feel that any explanation is necessary.


----------



## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

I recently made a thread about this (got pretty exemplary reaction from an INTJ too) Fe + setting the pace see post #10 for my clarification.

If it helps, feeling as a process that evaluates is hardly ever "just feeling like it". It is not very well explained or explored in typology because thinkers generally dont care for it. I had one good resource for it but lost it. It may have been from von franz.


----------



## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Evitez/Le/Divan said:


> I don't know if I am NT.
> 
> I think it's pretty useless too but I think the big problem is the "understand". I don't see anything too understand, the girl don't understand herself so. Just accept it ( the love worth 25km lol)


Dude she literally said it. Her friend said the place had good reviews. You are definitely NTJ because you dont understand that nor do you care to.


----------



## Summer70 (Feb 27, 2021)

For some people (like me), feelings are good enough reasons to decide, no matter how senseless they sound. They are valued only because they exist, and they need no explanation. The same way I eat when I am hungry, I don't need to know why eating is important. I'm hungry, so I eat. I'm enthusiastic about a place, so I go. End.

(It's a simplistic way to frame it. Of course, there are moments where I question myself a bit more and where I encounter dilemmas.)

Anyway. Even if you understood her, it wouldn't mean that you would want to go there, so yes, you're just catering to her and doing her a favor. 
It doesn't change much whether you understand her or not.


----------



## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

Seems like she was attempting to have some fun/be spontaneous, perhaps get a good story out of the experience to tell her friend. Like, “Oh hey, so-and-so will be thrilled that I took their recommendation and then I can tell them all about how it went!” is a possible Feeling-oriented motivator for the extra time and expense.


----------



## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Evitez/Le/Divan said:


> I don't know if I am NT.
> 
> I think it's pretty useless too but I think the big problem is the "understand". I don't see anything too understand, the girl don't understand herself so. Just accept it ( the love worth 25km lol)


Yeah, I think in the same way but wanted to confirm whether feelers have some sort of understanding with each other that I don't share or if feelers also don't understand other feelers the same way I don't and they're just catering or sacrificing for the sake of keeping the other person happy like I feel like when I'm following a decision that doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Warriorprincess (Mar 1, 2010)

This is a super good question. I’m an XNTP female and struggle constantly to understand my feeler family decisions sometimes. My saving grace is perhaps that I am a P. Your gf is adventurous and only sees it as a connection to her friend. She can’t tell you all of this because she is just living out of her heart. The key is understanding their motivation and showing empathy and asking questions. That you care enough to try to get it and want to understand is really great.


----------



## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

ENTJudgement said:


> Yeah, I think in the same way but wanted to confirm whether feelers have some sort of understanding with each other that I don't share or if feelers also don't understand other feelers the same way I don't and they're just catering or sacrificing for the sake of keeping the other person happy like I feel like when I'm following a decision that doesn't make sense to me.


I understand her motivation as well as your arguments, this actually makes me feel pretty smart now


----------



## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

It's not that complicated. You're complicating it by filtering her responses through your personal value system. You greatly value efficiency. She does not. Other than that, it's like one of the previous posters said. It's just a preference that she doesn't feel/have the need/desire/ability to explain.


----------



## Evitez/Le/Divan (Feb 9, 2021)

DOGSOUP said:


> Dude she literally said it. Her friend said the place had good reviews. You are definitely NTJ because you dont understand that nor do you care to.


Thanks, I don't know my type so that gives me clues.

Well I had understood the justification but, and this is the problem, it does not justify much Haha. Except if her friend is a great gourmet or even if he shares exactly the same tastes in the kitchen as she does, I don't see the point. But hey I know it's due to my personal limitations lol. In fact a lot of people walk like that and it's pretty cool.

And I care lol. I'm just limited sorry guys


----------



## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Evitez/Le/Divan said:


> Thanks, I don't know my type so that gives me clues.
> 
> Well I had understood the justification but, and this is the problem, it does not justify much Haha. Except if her friend is a great gourmet or even if he shares exactly the same tastes in the kitchen as she does, I don't see the point. But hey I know it's due to my personal limitations lol. In fact a lot of people walk like that and it's pretty cool.
> 
> And I care lol. I'm just limited sorry guys


Well on the other hand you've just come up with two possible explanations there, so you are probably not as limited as you think.


----------



## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

ENTJudgement said:


> Yeah, I think in the same way but wanted to confirm whether feelers have some sort of understanding with each other that I don't share or if feelers also don't understand other feelers the same way I don't and they're just catering or sacrificing for the sake of keeping the other person happy like I feel like when I'm following a decision that doesn't make sense to me.


My husband (INFP) takes issue with the idea of compromise. He feels it is a futile endeavor where no one gets what they want. He would like to see two people always searching for the other’s best interest, with full disclosure, so they will be able to take care of one another without the resentment.

Might be as simple as saying you get where she is coming from but it pains you to be so impractical. If you “cater” and “sacrifice” for something that is supposed to be a fun shared activity and she knows you don’t really want to do it, neither of you would be happy about it, so it’s a lose-lose. Rather, ideally, you’d see her desire for novelty and she’d see your desire for practicality, and you’d find something that meets both those requirements rather than sacrificing one for the other.


----------



## SouDesuNyan (Sep 8, 2015)

I don't think it's a purely Fe/Fi user thing. There are probably things you do that are irrational, but it satisfies other things, like desire, ego, the body, etc. Most people are controlled either by their feelings or thoughts. Actually, thoughts come before feelings, since feelings are just the body's reaction to thoughts. So, the problem actually originates from thoughts. Most mature NTs have probably gone beyond having their feelings control them (too often), so their main problem is their thoughts. To say that thoughts are the originator is actually incorrect. It all starts with the environment, memories, and intuitions. Someone who has gone beyond their thoughts would try to shape their environment and memories so that they serve "the greater good". In your case, the greater good is efficiency or rationality. Maybe I'm diving too deep.


----------



## superloco3000 (Dec 15, 2017)

ENTJudgement said:


> Yeah, I think in the same way but wanted to confirm whether feelers have some sort of understanding with each other that I don't share or if feelers also don't understand other feelers the same way I don't and they're just catering or sacrificing for the sake of keeping the other person happy like I feel like when I'm following a decision that doesn't make sense to me.


yes, understanding Feelers types is like finding dark matter or solving the world's problems.

Some people said it's a complex information network, I don't know, and others say it's an important aspect of our biology as a species, I don't know either xD.

All I know friend, pay the extra dollars and travel the few kilometers because they will get in a bad mood for things like that xD, the next day you aren't giving a fuck about that xD.


----------



## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

Fe is focused on emotions, for example, happiness, joy, anger, sadness, fear.

Fi is focused on values, for example, good, bad, creepy, kind, evil.

Fe will judge you if your emotions are incongruent with their mood at the time (i.e. if you express indifference while they are cracking jokes and laughing with you).

Fi will judge you if your actions are incongruent with what is socially appropriate in that context (i.e. if you talk about anal bleaching at a formal dinner party).

Fe also tends to focus on how and why something chooses to do something (the context), whereas Fi will focus on whether the actions someone takes harmonise with their values or not (the content).


----------



## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Meliodas said:


> Fe is focused on emotions, for example, happiness, joy, anger, sadness, fear.
> 
> Fi is focused on values, for example, good, bad, creepy, kind, evil.
> 
> ...


If your examples are accurate then those really helped me differentiate between Fe and Fi better, thanks. I originally just thought Fe = Care about what others think/keeping the peace etc... Where as Fi only cares what the individual thinks (selfish).


----------



## Deuce (Feb 16, 2021)

In your original example, my guess is that there was something more under the "I felt like it" "argument" - a real content. It could be about her wanting to show loyalty to her friend by going to the place she's been told about and a reluctance to turn down people's advices which would be considered impolite. It could be about her creating a common experience with the people she's affiliated to by eating at the same place. Could be about wanting to create narratives she'll be able to share with her friends later - in any case, trying to replace your vacations into the broader context of her relationships and emotional bonds with others.

It could also be (but that's more a Ne/Ni divide or Se/Ni divide here) assimilating vacations to explorations and slight deviations from the plan. I guess my Ne bias is going to show but for me it's not really a holiday until the conditions for surprise or unexpected events has been created, and the best way for that is if the plan has holes in it or some modicum of flexibility.

It could also be about having a slower-paced approach to holidays, too. Not approaching vacations as a maximization of enjoyment (going only to Michelin restaurant, having only top-notch experiences) but also just chilling, letting time flow, not having to check your watch (and money) all the time, which is precisely the luxury you can't have during work time. I guess this one is more of a Si/Se divide. I have an ISFJ friend whose conceptions of holidays is chilling endlessly in cafes while smoking and basking in the sun.

It's too bad your girlfriend didn't explain herself more, but what appears as the whim of a princess from the outside can just be a slight difference of approach. Maybe she also considers she had already done her share of compromises by letting you acting on your will for efficiency during other moments of your vacation. Maybe.


----------



## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Deuce said:


> In your original example, my guess is that there was something more under the "I felt like it" "argument" - a real content. It could be about her wanting to show loyalty to her friend by going to the place she's been told about and a reluctance to turn down people's advices which would be considered impolite. It could be about her creating a common experience with the people she's affiliated to by eating at the same place. Could be about wanting to create narratives she'll be able to share with her friends later - in any case, trying to replace your vacations into the broader context of her relationships and emotional bonds with others.


I've never thought about it in this context, it's starting to make more sense now although I'm totally in disagreement with it coz IMO our holiday should have nothing to do with her friends or other relationships, it's our time and about us. Appreciate this explanation.



Deuce said:


> It could also be (but that's more a Ne/Ni divide or Se/Ni divide here) assimilating vacations to explorations and slight deviations from the plan. I guess my Ne bias is going to show but for me it's not really a holiday until the conditions for surprise or unexpected events has been created, and the best way for that is if the plan has holes in it or some modicum of flexibility.


Also makes sense I guess I sometimes do the same thing if a good opportunity comes along i.e a new restaurant has just opened up and celebrating their grand opening offering free meals then I would likely deviate from my original plan coz it makes logical sense to do so and the opportunistic side in me would be satisfied. Perhaps her friend telling her about this place gave her a opportunistic feeling like I would get from the free food offering. I still can't say I agree with it at all coz in my example, we're saving money and getting free food where as in her example, we're spending more money to achieve nothing besides earning brownie points for her friend? This probably shows just how non existent my Fe is lol but I get where its coming from.



Deuce said:


> It could also be about having a slower-paced approach to holidays, too. Not approaching vacations as a maximization of enjoyment (going only to Michelin restaurant, having only top-notch experiences) but also just chilling, letting time flow, not having to check your watch (and money) all the time, which is precisely the luxury you can't have during work time. I guess this one is more of a Si/Se divide. I have an ISFJ friend whose conceptions of holidays is chilling endlessly in cafes while smoking and basking in the sun.


This makes sense although we're spending more by going out of our way to said restaurant so probably not in this context. 



Deuce said:


> It's too bad your girlfriend didn't explain herself more, but what appears as the whim of a princess from the outside can just be a slight difference of approach. Maybe she also considers she had already done her share of compromises by letting you acting on your will for efficiency during other moments of your vacation. Maybe.


Never thought of it that way, I always assumed the most efficient route is the route everyone would agree on coz logically makes the most sense.


----------

