# Skirting the Line - Which type am I?



## greye (May 25, 2017)

Alright, so, context: I've been into MBTI for awhile, and over that period I think my personality type has changed but I'm not sure. Initially, I was definitely an ENFJ, but now I fit more of the ENFP description. I still display many of the tendencies of ENFJs, but I'm wondering if that's just like left over or something? I still feel that drive to be helpful to people, the social savvy, and the desire to impact people. Also, my enneagram is 3w2, which is more consistent with ENFJ. I'd just like to know y'all's 2 cents. Sorry if this is the longest questionnaire on Earth - thanks for reading!!

1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
I was depressed for a time, which could account for the possible change in personality. However,
I'm in a pretty good place now. I'm a 17 y/o female. Oh, and it's very late where I'm writing this, so it may sound a little disjointed. Also, I'm terrible at conveying my personality and style of speech online so if you can't get any sense of me it's not your fault XD.

2. Study these two images here and here. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?
Oooo, I like that first one with the sea. I think it's beautiful. Also, I like the vibe it give off.
I look at it and feel adventure - not the fiery kind but the calm, reflective sort. I can smell what it would smell like there, which is pleasing. It's serene and mysterious.

3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?
(fyi this ended up not being very "cover letter" style.)
Boy, that's a big task. I feel like I'm hard to describe, because if I have one quality I also have the opposite. Do you know what I mean? Like, I couldn't say that I'm _either_ lazy _or_ driven because I'm simultaneously both. Or at least that's what I feel. I think the impression I show people is purposely simplified or composed for them. Most people would see me as a laid-back jokester. A person with a crazy energy and adventuresome spirit. However, since I present a form of my personality for people, sometimes I change this for the situation. Like, my entire family and many of my teachers think of me as subdued, studious. I think I've gotten less strict about modulating my personality than when I was younger, though, as in I follow more general guidelines that are just more formal or more casual. Sorry if that last part seemed vague. I don't know how to describe it. 
I'm a busy person. I'm involved in so many different activities and invest myself in all of them. If I'm not doing something worthwhile or accomplishing something I feel terrible and lazy.
I'm an open and sociable person, and have a wide circle of good friends and acquaintances.
I feel like one of my weaknesses is my lack of follow-through. I love to start things but hate to finish them, so I tend to bounce from project to project.

4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?
I want to be someone who's well-like and looked up to. Influential. Accomplished. I get a deep satisfaction from making an impact on people and helping them. 
I wouldn't want to be someone with cause for people to dislike them, whether it be due to personality, life choices,
or their treatment of others. I think basically the goal is to be as perfect as possible, and obviously if people dislike you then you're probably doing something wrong.

5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?
Whoops, I basically described how others see me before, but I'll just talk about how I see me here. I find myself to be a rather serious person, even though I present myself as not having a care in the world.
I enjoy being around others and knowing them and helping them. I'm intellectual but may not completely show it.
I'm bold and adventuresome.
I think what most people see is the slightly shallow image of a happy-go-lucky hippie jokester, but I'm more ambitious and serious than that and prefer people who are the same.

6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2.
I think in life it's important to constantly work to improve yourself and the world. As long as everyone does that then everything else will fall into place.

7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?
I'm usually cautious at first, unless I decide to just barge in and take a risk by being outgoing and entertaining right off the bat. Most times I sit back for the first little bit and join in when I have an idea of what the rules and limitations are for my behavior. Then I'll jump in and be comfortable going with the flow. Sometimes I may come off as shy or quiet in new situations, but it's only because I don't want to do the wrong thing or make a fool of myself.

8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
I'm very good at dealing with stress in the moment and long term. I feel like it almost just doesn't affect me, or at least I don't acknowledge it. Oftentimes having stress makes me better.

9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
Hmmm. When I'm enjoying myself I'm very confident, but in a low-key kind of way, not the in your face all charm confidence that I sometimes summon up if I'm unsure. I'm also usually laid-back and relaxed.


10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?
In one-on-one interaction I'm usually less energetic, and more calm and slow-paced. I like one-on-one because it can achieve a greater depth than group interaction.
In group interaction I'm more animated and portray more of a persona of charisma and charm. I like group interaction because it's fun and exciting.

11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?
I feel like I defy society, live more by my own rules. I don't think I apply very well to social norms but I can mimic them. I'm not traditional in any right. But I don't see society as the enemy. I think social norms are necessary for regulating behavior and facilitating interaction.

12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?
I don't do too well with people who must maintain rigid authority. I feel like authority should be more of a two-way street, like if I don't agree with something I can call for a change. But that's usually not the case so I deal with it usually by talking back or rebelling if it's a minor authority. With a serious authority with more serious repercussions I subdue myself but hate the feeling that it inspires.

13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life? 
I'm generally more chaotic, definitely. But like an ordered chaos. I feel like even though I act and make decisions that I play up as very chaotic to others, I tend to keep my behavior in check and regulated. Like,
I'll exaggerate how little I do my homework and pretend I'm worried about going into quizzes without studying,
but really I know the facts and figures about where my grade is at and am confident I can maintain it.

14. What is it that your fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?
I fear not being liked and valued by others. I try hard to do good for other people and be a kind and approachable person in order to avoid this. I get upset if I feel like I'm very invested in a person and have been friendly and helpful to them and they still don't like or care for me.

15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?
I want to be able to experience amazing things and relationships. I think this stems from the wonder that hearing other people's stories has inspired and also from the good feeling I get from my own past experiences.

16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
Depends. I feel like I'm both energized and drained by spending time with people, but on the flip side if I spend too much time alone I feel drained and unhappy. I put effort into maintaining a balance. Typically going outside or doing something otherwise adventurous are always energy boosters, alone or with people.

17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your enneagram, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the Keys2Cognition, it helps if you post these results here as well.
I want to know my type because I've been trying to figure myself out and improve myself.
I think I'm some strange conglomeration of ENFJ and ENFP, if that's even possible, maybe leaning a bit more to ENFP.
My enneagram is 3w2.

18. Finally, is there something else you find to be of importance you want to add about yourself you think might be of relevance when helping to type you?
Nope.


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## Siara14 (Apr 30, 2017)

Hello. I would be inclined towards ENFP. ENFJ's have Fe (Extraverted Feeling) as their dominant cognitive function, which means they are very socially orientated. ENFP's, on the other hand, are known as one of the quieter extroverts, which means it would make more sense for you to say socialising can sometimes be draining for you as an ENFP. Your relationship with authority being difficult and your love of trying new things over socialising all strongly suggest that you may well be Ne (Extraverted Intuition) dominant, which would make you an ENFP. However, I would suggest you research ENTP as well. ENTP's also have Ne as their dominant function; you seem quite studious and intelligent, which could indicate Ti (Introverted Thinking) as your auxiliary, though it's hard to say. As it's an introverted function, it would work in that you show your logical side to the world less than your adventurous side, and that seems to be what you are describing. You also say that you appreciate the need for social norms and that you fear not being liked and included socially (which could be teritary Fe, Extraverted Feeling, in the ENTP's functional stack. Also on the Judging/Percieving preferences you do seem more of a perceiver from what you've written. It's hard to say between those two without knowing more. Some questions - do you like debating intellectual ideas in a critical, detached way or are you quite sensitive and apt to taking things personally. My thinker sister (ENTP) loves having debates about intellectual, theoretical concepts, whereas as an INFP I am prone to take any criticism of my ideas personally. She is also more assertive generally. Hope this helps!


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## 460202 (May 22, 2017)

greye said:


> Alright, so, context: I've been into MBTI for awhile, and over that period I think my personality type has changed but I'm not sure. Initially, I was definitely an ENFJ, but now I fit more of the ENFP description. I still display many of the tendencies of ENFJs, but I'm wondering if that's just like left over or something? I still feel that drive to be helpful to people, the social savvy, and the desire to impact people. Also, my enneagram is 3w2, which is more consistent with ENFJ. I'd just like to know y'all's 2 cents. Sorry if this is the longest questionnaire on Earth - thanks for reading!!
> 
> 1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.
> I was depressed for a time, which could account for the possible change in personality. However,
> ...


You are totally an EXFJ, but I can't tell whether you're an ENFJ or ESFJ. The fact that you bounce between projects makes me think Ne, which would make you ESFJ, but you keep describing yourself as adventurous, which is more in line with Se, although that might depend on how you define adventure.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

My gut feeling says ENFJ.. the Fe is obvious, the Ni isn't obvious but I get a Ni-Se vibe from your post rather than Si-Ne. You don't seem as grounded as an ESFJ normally is.


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## greye (May 25, 2017)

.


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## greye (May 25, 2017)

@Siara14 That description does sound like me. I'm not really big on debating - I'd rather have an open-ended discussion. My brother's an ENTP and his propensity for debate is draining to me.



Thanks so much @Flower Hat for your detailed reply! I responded to some of your questions below to clarify.

And you're adventurous, but in what sense?
In every sense, really. I love to jump into things I haven't done before, and I love the feeling that anything could happen. Also, I feel like I'm chasing something, maybe like some deeper knowledge or understanding that I can only have when I experience everything.

Influential and accomplished in what sense?
Influential in that people will look up to me as a leader. Accomplished in that I can enact my plans for myself and the world.

You make some vague statements. I think Pi types are more inclined to this.
Eh, it may have been because of my tiredness that I didn't want to explain. I actually enjoy trying to explain my opinions or conclusions to people. Like, in a discussion I may make a vague statement but then try and capture exactly what I mean more in depth.

Everything else will fall into place? I know many Si types who would say this and mean, "Whatever happens, happens." I also know some ENXJs who would say this and mean, "It's all part of some grand scheme." Which is more you?
I don't know about any "grand scheme". I actually think that people can make themselves and defy the grand scheme of things. A personal mantra is "what is, is" which is sort of the same thing as "what happens, happens". I feel like I say that not because I think it was _destined_ to happen but more as a reaction to it happening. Like, you already spilled the milk, so there's no use getting too upset about it. This mentality may be why I don't stay angry or upset about things and get over them more easily.

8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.
I'm very good at dealing with stress in the moment and long term. I feel like it almost just doesn't affect me, or at least I don't acknowledge it. Oftentimes having stress makes me better.
How so?
Stress can make me perform better because I oftentimes do my best work when I'm racing a deadline.
Also, I have a more relaxed mentality about things - I rarely ever go "doomsday". I understand that if I don't turn something in or mess up, it's not really that important. Also, I'm confident in my ability to handle turmoil.

In one-on-one interaction I'm usually less energetic, and more calm and slow-paced. I like one-on-one because it can achieve a greater depth than group interaction.
Depth in what sense? More Fe.
Depth in the sense that there is a strong connection. When I'm in a crowd I feel like there's a more feeble connection between me and the other people, but when I'm one-on-one I feel very connected to the other person. Perhaps like groups are more a thrill and one-on-one's more a comfort.

So you're internally ordered?
Define internally ordered.

Amazing things? 
Transcendent experiences. I want to travel India, climb a mountain, visit the wilds of Africa. It makes me feel alive.

You are totally an EXFJ, but I can't tell whether you're an ENFJ or ESFJ. The fact that you bounce between projects makes me think Ne, which would make you ESFJ, but you keep describing yourself as adventurous, which is more in line with Se, although that might depend on how you define adventure.
I'm surprised you're so confident in ExFJ, because I thought for sure people would confirm ENFP. Although,
could it be possible for me to have an ENFP persona and an ENFJ way of thinking?


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

You strike me as an ENFJ or you have a strong Fe for an ENFP...
Two questions:
Why do you want/like helping people? / How do you usually find yourself helping people?
Is your home messy?


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## 460202 (May 22, 2017)

greye said:


> @siara14 that description does sound like me. I'm not really big on debating - i'd rather have an open-ended discussion. My brother's an entp and his propensity for debate is draining to me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


esfj.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

Flower Hat said:


> esfj.



What you said about Si users at the end is making me think because I don't seem to use Si yet I find myself stereotyping a bit (not proud of it) and I love slapping mbti labels on pretty much everyone I meet lol 

you sure that's only an Si thing?


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

spaceynyc said:


> What you said about Si users at the end is making me think because I don't seem to use Si yet I find myself stereotyping a bit (not proud of it) and I love slapping mbti labels on pretty much everyone I meet lol
> 
> you sure that's only an Si thing?


I do that too and I don't have Si so I highly doubt that's a Si thing.
It might also be a Fe thing, the need to understand people so you know how to be nice to them.


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## greye (May 25, 2017)

vhaydenlv said:


> Why do you want/like helping people? / How do you usually find yourself helping people?
> Is your home messy?


I just get a lot of satisfaction from helping people. I like to improve things, because then I can look at something and know I made it better. I do a lot of volunteer work, and am currently interning for a non-profit. I love it because in the real world, if you see something that isn't working and needs to be improved, there are so many barriers in place that stop you from improving it, but in the non-profit world everyone's constantly changing things to streamline them and make a bigger impact.
And my home is SO messy. So, so very messy.


@Flower Hat

I read the profile for ESFJ, but it really didn't strike a chord with me. Is it possible to be a certain type but not apply to the characteristics? I know you said I put too much stock in the description, but some of this stuff is the opposite of true for me.

I selected a few that were just very off:

"Discussing scientific theories or debating European politics isn’t likely to capture Consuls’ interest for too long. Consuls are more concerned with fashion and their appearance, their social status and the standings of other people."
I'd love to have a long intellectual conversations with people, I hardly care about my appearance, and I'm not too involved in monitoring social status.

"Consul personality type will base their moral compass on established traditions and laws, upholding authority and rules, rather than drawing their morality from philosophy or mysticism."
This just... none of it applies to me. I _do_ draw morality from philosophy and mysticism, and I can't muster up too much concern for laws and traditions.

"...prefer plans and organized events to open-ended activities or spontaneous get-togethers"
About 98% of my activities are spontaneous, spur of the moment things, and I prefer it. I'm terrible with plans made far in advance because then if I want to do something else the day of, I'm already locked in. It also adds the stress of getting somewhere on time.

"Consuls place a lot of importance on what is socially acceptable, and can be very cautious, even critical of anything unconventional or outside the mainstream." 
This one is especially strange, because I'm one of the oddest ducks I know. I actually prefer people and things that are unconventional and tend to find the kind of friends that most other people consider too weird. 

"They are great with practical matters like money management and administrative tasks"
Ha. Hahahahahaha.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

@greye

Are you more of an idea creator or an idea refiner?

Do you feel more comfortable spitballing ideas among other people or do you like to keep your ideas to yourself and think better alone in your mind


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## greye (May 25, 2017)

@spaceynyc

Definitely more of a spitballer/idea creator. Like, when I'm writing a new story or starting a new painting I sometimes think up so many ideas that I can't decide which I want to do. I like to talk through my ideas and such with other people and have them help me refine and develop them.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

greye said:


> @spaceynyc
> 
> Definitely more of a spitballer/idea creator. Like, when I'm writing a new story or starting a new painting I sometimes think up so many ideas that I can't decide which I want to do. I like to talk through my ideas and such with other people and have them help me refine and develop them.



Ok I change my mind, you're an ENFP. This is hands down Ne and not Ni


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

@greye

I think you being a type 3w2 enneagram (normally an Fe type) is tricking us into believing you're an Fe dominant when you're actually not


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## greye (May 25, 2017)

@spaceynyc

Ack, that's three votes for three different types. I wish I knew what all the cognitive functions meant so I could evaluate it myself. Right now it's all just a bunch of alphabet soup to me 

How did you learn to type people?


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

greye said:


> @spaceynyc
> 
> Ack, that's three votes for three different types. I wish I knew what all the cognitive functions meant so I could evaluate it myself. Right now it's all just a bunch of alphabet soup to me
> 
> How did you learn to type people?


I'll break it down for you

There's
Intuition (Ni and Ne)
Sensing (Si and Se)
Thinking (Ti and Te)
Feeling (Fi and Fe)

Every type can only have one of each

If your Intuition is extroverted your Sensing HAS to be introverted and vice versa

Same thing with Thinking and Feeling

For instance with ENFP 
Ne 
Fi
Te
Si

The intuition is the highest function for an ENFP so by default the Sensing has to be last since they are opposites. Notice how the Intution is Extroverted and outward and the Sensing is Introverted and inward

Also note Extroverted when it comes to functions also means Objective. Introverted mean subjective.

So an ENFP's Intution and Thinking are objective. While their Feeling and Sensing are subjective.

FPs value Fi not Fe
FJs value Fe not Fi
TPs value Ti not Te
TJs value Te not Ti

SPs value Se then Ni
SJs value Si then Ne
NPs value Ne then Si
NJs value Ni then Ni



Here's a chart:
https://www.careerplanner.com/MB2/8-CognitiveFunctionsChart.cfm

Definitions of functions:
https://www.careerplanner.com/8CognitiveFunctions/Cognitive-Functions-Simply-Explained.cfm


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

I knew you were an ENFP when you said you like to spitball and share ideas because that means your Intuition (ideas) are Extroverted.. they are more objective meaning they can be freely shared. (Ne)

To Introverted Intuitives like myself (Ni), ideas are subjective and therefore not easily explained to others


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## greye (May 25, 2017)

@spaceynyc

WOw. That is both so much more complex and so much simpler than I thought. Thanks for the awesome explanation. *cracks knuckles* Time to get to it, then.


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

greye said:


> I just get a lot of satisfaction from helping people. I like to improve things, because then I can look at something and know I made it better. I do a lot of volunteer work, and am currently interning for a non-profit. I love it because in the real world, if you see something that isn't working and needs to be improved, there are so many barriers in place that stop you from improving it, but in the non-profit world everyone's constantly changing things to streamline them and make a bigger impact.
> And my home is SO messy. So, so very messy.


I changed my mind, this a very Fi (ENFP) answer. You talk about how volunteer work makes _you_ feel good and how you want to _change_ things (Ne) for the better. I do volunteer work myself and while all of this is true for me too, my first thought would have probably been something along the line of: I can make _others_ happy, which would be more Fe.
Plus your house is messy, ENFPs tend to be messy (Si in 4th). Out of curiosity, does a clean house seem empty to you?
ENFJs on the contrary tend to be very clean and organized (Si in 3rd). When I asked my ENFJ friend if it was because cleaning her house feels like cleaning her mind, she agreed. Her house _has_ to be clean for her to be at peace.


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## UnicornRainbowLove (May 8, 2014)

Flower Hat said:


> To me, it seems more logical to say that the aux function is of the opposite attitude. Jung went back and forth a lot on which functions were conscious and which functions were unconscious and when the functions were fluctuating between consciousness and unconsciousness. However, if we had to apply the theory that the dominant and auxiliary functions are conscious, and that the tertiary and inferior functions are unconscious, then that would mean that for the most part, I as an introvert can only consciously think subjectively. I am consciously judging subjectively and I am consciously perceiving subjectively, and when I perceive and judge objectively, I do so unconsciously, which makes my conscious mind extremely out of touch with reality and sounds very much like psychosis. For the extroverted type, it would suggest that internal processing and "abstracting" (in a Jungian sense of the word) is only done objectively. Turns them into a blob of clay, molded into anything and everything the external world wants them to be.


But Jung also said that a person was an introvert if the subjective attitude of consciousness were habitual, or in other words that it isn't at all times, so an introvert who has a disposition for his feeling and intuitions functions would simply more often use these in an subjective way when he's conscious with them. The attitude and the functions don't seem "tied together" as far as I see them, and, without me having any proper knowledge on the subject, it would be the process of individuation(or the transcendent function) which would make people more whole by making a bridge between the conscious and unconscious. 

But I'm not the right person to have this discussion with. My knowledge of Jung is limited. Here is a post by someone who has thought more on the subject than me: post.


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## UnicornRainbowLove (May 8, 2014)

@Flower Hat 

I found this passage in Chapter 10



Carl Jung said:


> (Talking about extroverts and the attitude of their unconscious....) In a general way, the compensating attitude of the unconscious finds expression in the process of psychic equilibrium. A normal extraverted attitude does not, of course, mean that the individual behaves invariably in accordance with the extraverted schema. Even in the same individual many psychological happenings may be observed, in which the mechanism of introversion is concerned. A habitus can be called extraverted only when the mechanism of extraversion predominates. In such a case the most highly differentiated function has a constantly extraverted application, while the inferior functions are found in the service of introversion, i.e. the more valued function, because the more conscious, is more completely subordinated to conscious control and _purpose_, whilst the less conscious, in other words, the partly unconscious inferior functions are subjected to conscious free choice in a much smaller degree


I'm guessing that this can either be read as all the non-dominant functions being in the opposite attitude of the dominant one, so "INFP" would be Fi-Ne-Se-Te, which I believe is how Myers first envisioned it. I am, however, guessing that the more differentiated functions follow the conscious attitude since you're more in control of them, so it's Fi-Ni-Se-Te or Fi-N-Se-Te for an "INFP". Either way it seems to me that the third function would be in the opposite direction of the dominant - not in congruence with the Harold Grant function stack. 
In my own book (with a Danish translation from German) the word "purpose" is translated in such a way that it ought to mean "attitude". 

You may of course choose whichever interpretation of this that you like. I just wanted to point it out if you were interested


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## 460202 (May 22, 2017)

UnicornRainbowLove said:


> @Flower Hat
> 
> I found this passage in Chapter 10
> 
> ...


I actually read a book today by somebody who'd studied Jung for about 25 years. It was a book explaining Jung's model of typology, and the descriptions of the functions were... not bad, but... they were "baby" descriptions. It'd be a good book for somebody who's just beginning to look into cognitive functions.

Anyway, he explained that in Jung's model there are four functions, which we already know, obviously. He said that there's one dominant function, two auxiliary functions working in equal balance (of opposite attitudes) and one inferior function (of the same nature but opposite attitude to the dominant function). If this guy's interpretation is correct, then Jung wouldn't have _had_ to explain the attitude of the auxiliary function.

It's just interesting to think about how many different ways there are to interpret Jung's model, but I'm really spinning in circles trying to figure out how Myers and Socionics had eventually settled on their final models, regarding the attitude of the auxiliary (and tertiary) function. Jung wasn't great at making his point clear,


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