# Labels Against Women --- your thoughts on this viral vid



## high_heels (Jul 26, 2013)

Hi guys, 

I saw this ad a few weeks back. I didn't really pay much attention to it until recently when I realized that the viral vid made sense to me. Note, I am not advertising the brand of this vid. I just thought that the message of the viral video is something that hits a nerve to both men and women globally. Now I don't want this to be a sexiest thread, I hope to read some interesting thoughts/ideas about the message behind the video. 

So with that, any thoughts? I'd love to hear from you guys...specially fellow ENTJ women.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

I think what the video portrays is highly fictional and inaccurate.


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## unoriginal (Dec 22, 2013)

If you don't like what you're seeing. Then look away.


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## RandomNote (Apr 10, 2013)

The hell did that have to do with the product at all, seriously all the way up until the end i had no idea what this was for.

On a side note the music was pretty good, a nice version of the song.


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## ENTP_Guy (Nov 5, 2013)

An interesting and inaccurate stereotyping of females. Although to a misogynistic pig it would make sense but to me it just seems to be a very audacious marketing ploy for feminists, female rebels (citation needed?) and females with low self esteem.

It just pushes the whole sexism ideology in my opinion in the fact that it puts a spotlight on the whole thing.

It seems to try to want people to become feminists by enforcing a female in the work place stereotype. To say be impowered by being a cliché. But this is just my opinion of how I see it. 

All in all, I really like the videos directing style and music. The whole thing is rather clean in that way. But that has nothing to do with the message its self, more just a side note.


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## Elistra (Apr 6, 2013)

I've encountered such prejudice before. There are still some people out there who seem to think that if you're female and not some kind of empty-headed, bootlicking parasite with no thoughts, opinions, needs, or personality to speak of, then there must be something wrong with you.


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

I saw that a while ago, too. Is it not a bit superficial to empower yourself with a branded product?

The insults I've received based on my gender is that I'm "too manly", but not much else. I suppose I'm not old enough to be called a "gold-digger" - this is apparently quite popular amongst some MRA members.


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## Lurianar (Apr 17, 2013)

I don't like the whole "feminist" thing going on currently, though it's undeniable that both parties get hit by such stereotyping. The thing that I dislike is the fact that, once again, the men are being put on the "invulnerable" side of the coin and that the women are actually on the "discriminated" side, while we all know that this kind of stuff occur on both side. It's almost like if we really wanted to put a barrier between men and women: the very group trying to put it down is actually building it itself. This video if the perfect example.

Of course, I won't lie that I really liked the video - the music was fitting perfectly, the pictures were amazing and the overall ambiance, neat.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Lurianar said:


> I don't like the whole "feminist" thing going on currently, though it's undeniable that both parties get hit by such stereotyping. The thing that I dislike is the fact that, once again, the men are being put on the "invulnerable" side of the coin and that the women are actually on the "discriminated" side, *while we all know that this kind of stuff occur on both side.*


I've seen a lot of critiques of feminism that echo this very same sentiment: that feminism victimizes women and ignores that men are also victims of society.

But I think said critique just doesn't hold up because *women are quite obviously far more victimized than their male counterparts*, and it's very self-centered to write off an entire movement simply because it doesn't portray equal victimization of men and women. Is it really necessary to do so?

No.

It's not as if victimizing women antagonizes men. It antagonizes *society as a whole*. The characterization of women as victims of society *does not imply that men are invulnerable!* In any way!

The world is not black-and-white. If you are not a victim, *that does not mean that you are the oppressor*. There is such a thing as neutral. :wink:


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## Lurianar (Apr 17, 2013)

emberfly said:


> I've seen a lot of critiques of feminism that echo this very same sentiment: that feminism victimizes women and ignores that men are also victims of society.
> 
> But I think said critique just doesn't hold up because *women are quite obviously far more victimized than their male counterparts*, and it's very self-centered to write off an entire movement simply because it doesn't portray equal victimization of men and women. Is it really necessary to do so?
> 
> ...


I believe in equality. I understand the position of women, being a gay man (I hate labelling myself, but in this case I'm doing it to illustrate what I'm saying) I've seen what oppression and discrimination can do, in a world where the one I've seen (but not lived, as I was quite lucky on my side) is far worse than the one women (in general, not on a case-by-case, which would be a completely different story) lives right now.

However I agree deeply with women that want equality. I don't deny that a lot of them are actually judged (and beyond) for being a woman. Stereotyping, as showed in this video, is very strong against those who goes against the general way of thinking in a given society.

I'm sorry if I sounded like if I thought this movement wasn't a necessity, because I don't believe that. I just believe that if we are to fix this problem, we should go to the root and not simply stay on the superficial side of this problem, even less use it as a publicity and promote inequality in another way. What I can't stand are exactly those that are either all black or all white (extremists of both parties come to my mind right now). I just believe in equality.


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## Crooked Heart (Nov 22, 2012)

I consider myself a feminist, and I actually agree with the video's message that there are a lot of double standards in labeling men and women. That being said, I find it a little ridiculous that this sentiment is being promoted by Pantene, a hair product brand which reinforces the idea that conventional beauty = happiness.


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## stiletto (Oct 26, 2013)

It's cute but definitely nothing that pushing the boundaries. Pantene is not trying to be an earth shattering, feminist machine. It's marketing it's product to women, and what do women want? Equality.

Pantene is not making history, it's just riding the bandwagon that's going to drive up profit. It's a sentimental thought in the ad with little substance to back it up.

.
.
.
.
I like her shoes though.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

I think it's an advertisement. That's all that can really be said about it. Definitely manipulating the sense of victimization that results from the labels.

As for the larger issue of negative stereotypes against women, I am sure it happens still, but I don't personally experience or take part in it. It is a bit annoying that this is still in the spotlight when a lot of the barriers that women are breaking through also causing problems for them. For example, a full time job requires one not to be a stellar mother. If it were okay for dads to be stay-at-home (there are many out there that would love to), then this problem would be alleviated. There's just a lot of stuff on the other side of the aisle that needs to be done. I kind of find it ridiculous that little has been done thus far.


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)

Man, is there an echo in here?

We can all agree it's a relatively shallow add that touches very lightly on one side of an issue with little or no impact. I watched the add for about 15 seconds before I was like "Hurr, I get it". It's kind of ironic, though, that pretty much the only people who are going to buy it as a result of this add are the kind of superficial airheads that some women in the workforce are being accused of being. The add's funny if you look at it in that light.

Hell, I'm a dude and I might shop Pantene next time because of that.


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

The issues illustrated by the ad may still exist, but they are nowhere near as common as some groups would like us to believe. I started out in engineering and am now in the corporate world - both heavily male-dominated areas of work. I've never experienced any overt discrimination. Inappropriate comments and behaviour, sure. But nothing that could be called harassment or discrimination. Certainly nothing that couldn't be resolved with a bit of sarcastic wit or a request to cease and desist.

If people ARE labelling me behind my back, what do I care? I'm the one with the job and the power. Anyone who has a problem with atypical women is simply highlighting their own backward thinking and insecurities. They're certainly not stopping me achieving any of my goals.


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## sesquipedalian (Jan 3, 2014)

I agree with its premise, although given this is an ad, it's obviously a ploy, and a weak one at that. Women are routinely stigmatized for acting 'masculine'-but men are often stigmatized for acting 'feminine.' One group's struggles do not minimize the others'.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

jayde said:


> The issues illustrated by the ad may still exist, but they are nowhere near as common as some groups would like us to believe. I started out in engineering and am now in the corporate world - both heavily male-dominated areas of work. I've never experienced any overt discrimination. Inappropriate comments and behaviour, sure. But nothing that could be called harassment or discrimination. Certainly nothing that couldn't be resolved with a bit of sarcastic wit or a request to cease and desist.


That and men may get the same type inappropriate comments, just in different areas. Men _try_ to assert power over men differently than they do over women because the perceived "power dynamic" is different. Many women think that when they get harrassed by men, if it's of a sexual in nature, that it's some sort of isolated incident, without looking whether men get the same type of harrassment in other areas (why would a heterosexual man sexually harrass other men?). Besides, men are getting increasingly more sexually harrassment by women in the corporate world as well, with more women climbing the corporate ladder.

The video is inaccurate in that it assumes that all men are seen in a favorable light. It's just simply untrue. For the most part, people paint people they like with a positive brush and people they don't like with a negative one. Pantene's really just trying to capitalize on the growing divide between the genders, with more men identifying as MRA and more women as feminists.



jayde said:


> If people ARE labelling me behind my back, what do I care? I'm the one with the job and the power. Anyone who has a problem with atypical women is simply highlighting their own backward thinking and insecurities. They're certainly not stopping me achieving any of my goals.


Pretty much.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

Personally, I think more women should be offended that Pantene thought that they're dumb enough to buy this shit. 

I also think that, if you are going to get rid of every sort of label of negative thought someone may have based on gender, race, age or whatever else, you're going to need thought control and if you think thought control is OK you are a fascist.


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

Scelerat said:


> Personally, I think more women should be offended that Pantene thought that they're dumb enough to buy this shit.


YES!! 

I don't bother pointing that part out anymore though. The brick wall was starting to dent my head...


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## Biracial (Sep 8, 2010)

It's a great commercial.


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## I Kant (Jan 19, 2013)

If the ad was meant to stereotype mean as stereotyping women for the sake of improving the world somehow, I won't get over the irony.


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## miss. potato (Jul 10, 2013)

I really liked this commercial and found it very true, Even in my own life. I've watched it more than once, and even shared it with some people. I don't know how I feel about the fact that it was a Pantene ad though...

At the end of the ad my thoughts are "Great message, but I would never buy Pantene." The fact of the matter is many woman will buy it and go "Yeah! I'm supporting equality!" No...you're supporting Pantene, which isn't the same thing.


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## MsBossyPants (Oct 5, 2011)

So, the work place is sexist and unfair to women, and the way to combat that is ... what? 
to use Pantene and have fabulous hair?

Makes sense. :frustrating:

Love the ambiguous hashtag "whipit". Shake that hair, Honey.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

MsBossyPants said:


> So, the work place is sexist and unfair to women, and the way to combat that is ... what?
> to use Pantene have fabulous hair?
> 
> Makes sense. :frustrating:
> ...


I hear Paris Hilton is doing a follow up under the working title "The workplace is sexist, and you're always judged on your looks first, but you can at least look hawt while being objectified"


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

high_heels said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I saw this ad a few weeks back. I didn't really pay much attention to it until recently when I realized that the viral vid made sense to me. Note, I am not advertising the brand of this vid. I just thought that the message of the viral video is something that hits a nerve to both men and women globally. Now I don't want this to be a *sexiest* thread, I hope to read some interesting thoughts/ideas about the message behind the video.
> 
> So with that, any thoughts? I'd love to hear from you guys...specially fellow ENTJ women.


The main goal of these kinds of ads is that they do go viral. So they get a subject that hits a nerve in most people (and especially women in this case) and make an ad around it. Do it right and it will go viral.

As to the subject. Is it true in general that men are judged more positive than women? I think the answer is Yes and No, it depends on the role. Within, what is typically seen as a male role, men will be judged more positive than women. But within a typical female role, women will be judged more positive than men. In the video they used roles which are typically considered male roles. (One thing that's good I think is that over time (at least some) roles start to lose this view of being typical male or typical female. But this isn't happening in all people at the same rate.)


PS. Your "Freudian Slip" was funny. Especially within the subject of this thread :happy:


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Peter said:


> The main goal of these kinds of ads is that they do go viral. So they get a subject that hits a nerve in most people (and especially women in this case) and make an ad around it. Do it right and it will go viral.
> 
> As to the subject. Is it true in general that men are judged more positive than women? I think the answer is Yes and No, it depends on the role. Within, what is typically seen as a male role, men will be judged more positive than women. But within a typical female role, women will be judged more positive than men. In the video they used roles which are typically considered male roles. (One thing that's good I think is that over time (at least some) roles start to lose this view of being typical male or typical female. But this isn't happening in all people at the same rate.)
> 
> ...


Men are judged more positively than women because women are judged harshly for everything we do, say and wear so its not difficult to be judged more positively in comparison, really.

What's a typical male/female role?

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Men are judged more positively than women because women are judged harshly for everything we do, say and wear so its not difficult to be judged more positively in comparison, really.
> 
> What's a typical male/female role?
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk


If you don't know what a typical male/female role is, your reply doesn't make all that much sense, does it?

But I think you do know what typical male/female roles are (because: who doesn't?) and you´re just asking that to initiate a fight (debate of the form: I'm right, you´re not.)

Your reply therefore seems to be emotionally motivated and,.... I'm not interested in these kinds of discussions.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Peter said:


> If you don't know what a typical male/female role is, your reply doesn't make all that much sense, does it?
> 
> But I think you do know what typical male/female roles are (because: who doesn't?) and you´re just asking that to initiate a fight (debate of the form: I'm right, you´re not.)
> 
> Your reply therefore seems to be emotionally motivated and,.... I'm not interested in these kinds of discussions.


No....I'm interested but if you're going to get passive aggressive about it, don't bother. Just sounded somewhat sexist to me but sure, accuse me of starting a fight so you don't have to explain yourself. Don't really care.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> No....I'm interested but if you're going to get passive aggressive about it, don't bother. Just sounded somewhat sexist to me but sure, accuse me of starting a fight so you don't have to explain yourself. Don't really care.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk


So my explanation was sexist? I don't think it was at all. I kept it neutral.

But I get it. This is Te vs Fe. Te explanations often get misunderstood by Fe listeners.

Let's just get back to the subject.


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

Lurianar said:


> I believe in equality. I understand the position of women, being a gay man (I hate labelling myself, but in this case I'm doing it to illustrate what I'm saying) I've seen what oppression and discrimination can do, in a world where the one I've seen (but not lived, as I was quite lucky on my side) is far worse than the one women (in general, not on a case-by-case, which would be a completely different story) lives right now.
> 
> However I agree deeply with women that want equality. I don't deny that a lot of them are actually judged (and beyond) for being a woman. Stereotyping, as showed in this video, is very strong against those who goes against the general way of thinking in a given society.
> 
> I'm sorry if I sounded like if I thought this movement wasn't a necessity, because I don't believe that. I just believe that if we are to fix this problem, we should go to the root and not simply stay on the superficial side of this problem, even less use it as a publicity and promote inequality in another way. What I can't stand are exactly those that are either all black or all white (extremists of both parties come to my mind right now). I just believe in equality.


so, don't do anything unless you address everything very time? 
giving equal rights to some people emboldens more people to ask for more, not take away from others. 

and, for the record, women are discriminated against. tangential attacks don't negate this or other issues.


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

hair product-dumb.
labels-true
backlash against exposing labels-predictable.

things are better??? we're 100%equal-yeah, right.

Knowledge Center | Catalyst.org
Disappointing Statistics, Positive Outlook - Forbes
Women Worldwide Still Struggle To Break Into Leadership Roles - Business Insider

The backlash against feminism aims to preserve the 'manosphere' | Suzanne Moore | Comment is free | The Guardian

and, for the record, the definition of feminism is that men and women are equal, not that women are better and men are worse.


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## Lurianar (Apr 17, 2013)

Tea Path said:


> so, don't do anything unless you address everything very time?
> giving equal rights to some people emboldens more people to ask for more, not take away from others.
> 
> and, for the record, women are discriminated against. tangential attacks don't negate this or other issues.


If you are just going to put a band-aid on an open wound without disinfecting it and cleaning it, you're not going to fix the problem. It's superficial, temporary and aggravating. So yes, I'm saying that if you're just going to be superfluous, you'd be better doing nothing. Furthermore, media plays a big part in the information it provides, so having videos like this who doesn't show the whole picture aren't better than this:










I also do remember saying the unpopular opinion that they should be on the exact same level as anybody and that they still needed more help to be there. Not under, not over. Your birth gender and race shouldn't affect your chances in life in any way, be it as an advantage or disadvantage. Also, I’d like to precise that if you believe that there are abuses coming from men, there are certainly some coming from women. This article show one of the biggest advantages women actually have against men when it comes to the law: Abused boys and men: feminism’s acceptable losses ***Warning: this article is probably against your values and I don’t expect you to adhere to it. My goal is to show you that it’s not all black and white, no matter how both sides try to persuade us that it is***

Since you like references, I thought I'd give you a few too:

http://www.child.alberta.ca/home/documents/familyviolence/doc_opfvb_booklet_men_colour.pdf - How domestical violence isn't just a "male" problem.
Help for Abused Men: Escaping domestic violence by women or domestic partners - Same thing as the link before.
Workplace Intimidation - See how this very great article on workplace intimidation doesn't actually mention any gender but rather the behavior used.

End note: I'll reiterate again that I am for women equality and that they still are suffering from discrimination. But believing that there's no abuses from both party is a huge lie and viral videos like this one aren't helping at all.


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

Lurianar said:


> If you are just going to put a band-aid on an open wound without disinfecting it and cleaning it, you're not going to fix the problem. It's superficial, temporary and aggravating. So yes, I'm saying that if you're just going to be superfluous, you'd be better doing nothing. Furthermore, media plays a big part in the information it provides, so having videos like this who doesn't show the whole picture aren't better than this:
> *lets do nothing unless we can do everything. that just doesn't work*
> 
> 
> ...


*I didn't say that. you are using fallacy of relative privation and not arguing the point: women are not equal. that is my sole point. *


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## Lurianar (Apr 17, 2013)

Tea Path said:


> *I didn't say that. you are using fallacy of relative privation and not arguing the point: women are not equal. that is my sole point. *


First part was toward "so, don't do anything unless you address everything very time? 
giving equal rights to some people emboldens more people to ask for more, not take away from others."

Second part was toward "and, for the record, women are discriminated against. tangential attacks don't negate this or other issues."

Together, these two parts formed my argument of why we shouldn't do anything until it'll be useful and why just trying to fix the superficial wound won't help. This represent well what I think: "True wisdom come from knowing what is right, and sometime doing nothing at all."

I'd just like to add the fact that we have the right to disagree, but please keep a certain level of respect when you do.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

It's sad but true...try the same behaviour as a man and a woman and you'll get very different reactions. People see women as more sensitive, so when they do something assertive people think they "ought to know better", but when a man is not assertive he's seen as "weak", because he's supposed to be "naturally dominant and agressive".

I'm not saying biology doesn't play into this (does that make it any more excusable if it does? I never understood that line of reasoning...), but women are more quickly disliked for not acting "nice" or "democratic" enough when in a leadership position or when pushing a point.

I do, however, think men are just as likely to be seen as vain if they spend too much time getting ready in the morning. That might be because we've got fewer grooming expectations though. Still, a man taking pride in his appearance seems to make him more unattractive, as a partner, than a woman doing the same thing.


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## Pianoasis (Nov 10, 2011)

My thoughts are: if you're achieving all these things, man or woman, why give a shit what someone else labels you? You obviously achieved these things and a couple of negatively associated synonyms aren't going to change that.


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

Lurianar said:


> First part was toward "so, don't do anything unless you address everything very time?
> giving equal rights to some people emboldens more people to ask for more, not take away from others."
> 
> Second part was toward "and, for the record, women are discriminated against. tangential attacks don't negate this or other issues."
> ...


please show me where I violated forum rules .


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

Lurianar said:


> First part was toward "so, don't do anything unless you address everything very time?
> giving equal rights to some people emboldens more people to ask for more, not take away from others."
> 
> Second part was toward "and, for the record, women are discriminated against. tangential attacks don't negate this or other issues."
> ...


my I didn't say that was in response to you intimating that I didn't believe that abuses aren't committed by both genders.


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## azdahak (Mar 2, 2013)

It's a commercial designed to get attention. Women are clearly frequently negatively labeled when they assume traditional male roles. However, society has no expectations at all for men who want to be nurses, ballet dancers, or stay-at-home-dads.

Luckily men have Ax shower gel, Dos Equis, and Old Spice to show us how to man up.

Which of the following is cute, and which is "disturbing"? 

View attachment 90929
View attachment 90930



Regarding the ad, I think they really had to fish for some of the comparisons. Well-dressed women are considered vain show-offs? By whom? Other women?


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## Lurianar (Apr 17, 2013)

Tea Path said:


> my I didn't say that was in response to you intimating that I didn't believe that abuses aren't committed by both genders.


Well then I'm glad you agree with me! I also don't remember to have said that you didn't respect forum rules. I don't know why you feel that way, but I am sorry you do feel like it.

This was fun, but I feel like I am done here. I'd rather see other's opinion than wall of texts coming from me, even more when you're telling me that you agree. A lot of answers have very interesting opinions


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

Lurianar said:


> Well then I'm glad you agree with me! I also don't remember to have said that you didn't respect forum rules. I don't know why you feel that way, but I am sorry you do feel like it.
> 
> This was fun, but I feel like I am done here. I'd rather see other's opinion than wall of texts coming from me, even more when you're telling me that you agree. A lot of answers have very interesting opinions


in response that I keep respect in my tone.
i don't do wall of texts.
and, you shall do as you choose, which is all one can do.


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## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

I do believe that women are - still today - many times much more harshly judged in many areas than men are. Part of the problem is that it is not only some men that tend to judge women to a higher standard in many areas, but also the fact that many women tend to judge other women - the 'competition' I guess. This is more apparent in the US than it was in Sweden, maybe because women tend to compete more for a good provider here than there? I don't know.

Either way, this message is nothing new. Unfortunately, it is also nothing that has been close to fully resolved. A few examples:
- A woman is still a slut if she sleeps around, not a 'player' (possibly a 'gold-digger' though). 
- My MIL judges me, not my husband, if the house is not clean, neat and organized, even though both my husband and I work full time. Many times, women who work outside the home are still expected to take care of the brunt of the 'service' at home.
- In this very thread, a woman got accused of being 'emotional' when disagreeing with a man's opinion in a straight forward manner. This is something that is sadly not uncommonly used to invalidate a woman's opinions, reasoning, contributions, etc.
- In the engineering firm where I work, it is very hard to climb the company ladder as a woman because we are not welcome into the "boys' club". (Not all men/other minorities are either, but a man does at least have a chance at a first glance.)

It is not a bad thing if a commercial makes people think. Not sure that I see Pantene as the great equality proponent quite yet though.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

JohnLemon said:


> I consider myself a feminist, and I actually agree with the video's message that there are a lot of double standards in labeling men and women. That being said, I find it a little ridiculous that this sentiment is being promoted by Pantene, a hair product brand which reinforces the idea that conventional beauty = happiness.


They've probably realized that faulty message and are trying to back track from it?

When I see a "viral vid" such as the one OP shared, all I think is "Clever advertising team"
I do not truly believe Pantene wishes to take a stance for or against anything sans cash and is using effective (or not, your decision) manipulation tactics.
Jumping on a very real problem (like Dove and their anorexia/photoshop campaign thing) to elicit audience pathos is pretty typical. :/


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

sesquipedalian said:


> I agree with its premise, although given this is an ad, it's obviously a ploy, and a weak one at that. Women are routinely stigmatized for acting 'masculine'-but men are often stigmatized for acting 'feminine.' One group's struggles do not minimize the others'.


Badass avatar. Plus your post was nice as well.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

I'd like to see a male version done by Gillette or something. 
First slide, 
woman in pink shirt pushing stroller: Great mother. 
Man in pink shirt pushing stroller: Gay. 

Second slide, 
woman in flowery apron cooking: Motherly. 
man in flowery apron cooking: Gay. 

Third slide, 
well trained and groomed woman: Beautiful. 
well trained and groomed man : Gay. 

Fourth slide
woman punching man in the face: You Go Girl!
man punching woman in the face: Man gets beaten up by 40 people. 

Fifth slide: 
Woman with no kids hanging out at playground: Sweet. 
Man with no kids hanging out at playground: Child molester. 

*Note* I'm joking around, not picking a debate.


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## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

Scelerat said:


> I'd like to see a male version done by Gillette or something.
> First slide,
> woman in pink shirt pushing stroller: Great mother.
> Man in pink shirt pushing stroller: Gay.
> ...


Lol, even though I'd hope that the 4th slide would not fly with most + any adult hanging out at a playground is kinda creepy or at least weird & pathetic in my book!

Anyway.... I know some hetero men who wears pink shirts (yes, even here in the US). I guess that they are just comfortable in their own skin and don't care what other men think. I know that a lot of US men think that European men are 'gay' because they care how the dress & look. I must say that I prefer the way Swedish men dress compared to how men dress here in KY (goes for women too, btw). Khakis & sneakers.... sigh.

This also somewhat ties into a thing I was thinking about earlier when someone pointed out that men often get judged when they choose to act within a traditionally feminine role/area. I get the impression that the majority of the time the judges are other men and not women. Many women have no problem with gay men, men dressing in pink, men in touch with their feelings, men working at daycare, male nurses, men taking aerobics classes, etc. On the contrary, these men are often embraced and almost end up being some sort of mascot. However, as I said before, a lot of women are very quick to judge other women and this 'cattiness' is something that is pretty specific to the US culture IMO.


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## high_heels (Jul 26, 2013)

Peter said:


> The main goal of these kinds of ads is that they do go viral. So they get a subject that hits a nerve in most people (and especially women in this case) and make an ad around it. Do it right and it will go viral.
> 
> As to the subject. Is it true in general that men are judged more positive than women? I think the answer is Yes and No, it depends on the role. Within, what is typically seen as a male role, men will be judged more positive than women. But within a typical female role, women will be judged more positive than men. In the video they used roles which are typically considered male roles. (One thing that's good I think is that over time (at least some) roles start to lose this view of being typical male or typical female. But this isn't happening in all people at the same rate.)
> 
> ...


I don't think so darling. The very reason why I posted this thread was to get inputs from people. Some will not mind the ad, some will actually like it, some will not like, and there are some who simply doesn't care about it. That's the very reason why we have this forum, its an opportunity for people to speak up, argue, agree or whatever about certain topics. So don't confuse my post as a "freudian slip". Its just an honest question, seeking for honest answer from strangers in the crazy world called --- the internet!


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

Sadly most people see and feel the world this way. However, sometimes the label is true.
Especially Bossy and Pushy versions. Women tend to think men would not take them seriously at times and therefore try extreme measures. I find it unnecessary that some women do that.

Plus, men and women are different things, sexism is real. It doesnt mean no man can ever pass a women or vice versa but on average, we have our differences.
Sexism, Racism, or whatever... we are different beings, this doesnt affect our equality but people should come to understand that difference is not a bad thing, it creates variability and mobility.

Some day you anti-sexist people will come and shout at us for calling men as men and women as women (black and white?) maybe we should call them femino-Americans much like Afro-Americans.. as if that has any difference from calling it black...


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## Tzara (Dec 21, 2013)

I will leave this here, if anyone was interested.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

high_heels said:


> I don't think so darling. The very reason why I posted this thread was to get inputs from people. Some will not mind the ad, some will actually like it, some will not like, and there are some who simply doesn't care about it. That's the very reason why we have this forum, its an opportunity for people to speak up, argue, agree or whatever about certain topics. So don't confuse my post as a "freudian slip". Its just an honest question, seeking for honest answer from strangers in the crazy world called --- the internet!


The "freudian slip" was 1 word (that was bolded in the quote). I didn't mean the whole post and it was just a little side joke.

I did reply to your question in a serious way.


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