# Definitions of the Cognitive Functions (or IM elements)



## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

This is my current view on the functions. Any comments and critique are welcome.*

N* refers to "controlled semantic/object retrieval, when strong stimulus-stimulus associations are absent". N adds an object so the context is changed. This is about new or unclear situations.

*S* refers to all other perceptions. This is about our direct experience of the world.

*T *refers to evaluations of relationships between physical objects. This function is about preservation of energy and avoiding injuries etc. 

*F *refers to feelings, which are evaluations of relationships between subjects (i.e. people or animals) and objects/other subjects. For example, the feeling of disgust prevents a person from eating a certain poisonous plant twice.

"Feelings are sparked by emotions and colored by the thoughts, memories, and images that have become subconsciously linked with that particular emotion for you." ... "Feelings are mental experiences of body states, which arise as the brain interprets emotions, themselves physical states arising from the body’s responses to external stimuli. (The order of such events is: I am threatened, experience fear, and feel horror.)"

"Static" functions (Se, Ne, Ti, Fi) process information about the actual objects/subjects.

"Dynamic" functions (Si, Ni, Te, Fe) process information which is a symbolic representation of the objects/subjects (language, numbers, other symbols)

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Si, Ni, Te and Fe deal with symbols/abstractions, so there are no spatial relationships. This means that there are only two ways to organize objects/subjects: 1) using different categories and 2) temporal-sequential ordering. This is probably why SEI, SLI, LSE etc. are aware of the time and typically avoid being late.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Pretty much MBTI


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Wisteria said:


> Pretty much MBTI


I disagree with you. For example, "Seeks logic and consistency in the outside world" is not necessarily about Te according to my definitions of the functions.

https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti...ype-dynamics/the-eight-function-attitudes.htm

Extraverted Sensing: Acts on concrete data from here and now. Trusts the present, then lets it go.

Introverted Sensing: Compares present facts and experiences to past experience. Trusts the past. Stores sensory data for future use.

Extraverted Intuition: Sees possibilities in the external world. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which can then be shared with others.

Introverted Intuition: Looks at consistency of ideas and thoughts with an internal framework. Trusts flashes from the unconscious, which may be hard for others to understand.

Extraverted Thinking: Seeks logic and consistency in the outside world. Concern for external laws and rules.

Introverted Thinking: Seeks internal consistency and logic of ideas. Trusts his or her internal framework, which may be difficult to explain to others.

Extraverted Feeling: Seeks harmony with and between people in the outside world. Interpersonal and cultural values are important.

Introverted Feeling: Seeks harmony of action and thoughts with personal values. May not always articulate those values.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Tellus said:


> I disagree with you. For example, "Seeks logic and consistency in the outside world" is not necessarily about Te according to my definitions of the functions.
> 
> https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti...ype-dynamics/the-eight-function-attitudes.htm
> 
> ...


Thought you said the functional stack was invalid. Now you're using them to prove a point?

I meant the basic S, N, T and F descriptions that you posted. It's the same as MBTI, which is dichotomies based.


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## ChaoticEvil (Aug 17, 2017)

what's your definition of te anyway? you can't just say my definition of te is different than x without explaining it first. don't act like as if you are carl jung and we are supposed to know your fucking definitions.

also, all that aside, anyone can come up with a fucking definition. you have to give us explanations, examples, analogies. definitions are worthless. you have to convince us that your definition of te is the correct one.

give me a te definition + explanation so i can't just call it inductive logic.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Se, Ne, Ni, etc are not functions, they are S+E, N+E and so on. Extraversion and introversion are general attitude of consciousness, the functions are S,N,T,F.


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

Red Panda said:


> Se, Ne, Ni, etc are not functions, they are S+E, N+E and so on. Extraversion and introversion are general attitude of consciousness, *the functions are S,N,T,F.*


Not in Socionics, they're not.

:i: :t: :f: :s: : :L: :e: and :r: are all information elements. The functions are components, numbered 1-8, that determines how these information elements are used by a particular sociotype.

@Tellus is trying to unify Socionics with MBTI. I don't see much of a point. But good luck with that.


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## ChaoticEvil (Aug 17, 2017)

Bastard said:


> Not in Socionics, they're not.
> 
> :i: :t: :f: :s: : :L: :e: and :r: are all information elements. The functions are components, numbered 1-8, that determines how these information elements are used by a particular sociotype.
> 
> @Tellus is trying to unify Socionics with MBTI. I don't see much of a point. But good luck with that.


as if mbti says entps use fe just like enfjs... or istps use ni just like infjs. the more differentiated a function, the more dominant it will be. as an entp if i got ne first and ti second my fe can only softly whisper in my ear. i'm not bothered by the things my fe says. generally my answer is: i know, i don't care, shut up. i can ignore it because it is not differentiated enough. it can't compete with ne and ti and this fact makes it powerless. like all types i have feelings too though, so i am not saying i can completely ignore fe. it's much easier for me to ignore fe in comparison to ti, that's what i am saying.

showing me a stupid black tetris block and saying this shit is your 3rd component is just renaming things. you are not saying anything new. stupid black tetris thing is fe. and 3rd component is tertiary slot.

there's no point indeed. no matter how hard you try to convince yourselves otherwise, mbti and socionics is the same. i can accept the fact that socionics explanations and definitions dig deeper, clarify things etc. but mbti and socionics are two painters painting the same thing. you can say mbti is left behind even. but you can't say socionics is something else.


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

ChaoticEvil said:


> as if mbti says entps use fe just like enfjs... or istps use ni just like infjs. the more differentiated a function, the more dominant it will be. as an entp if i got ne first and ti second *my fe can only softly whisper in my ear. i'm not bothered by the things my fe says.*


That may be for ENTP, but not for ILE. ILE's :e: is Valued, Bold, but Weak. In other words, they like its information and they use it eagerly, albeit naively. 



ChaoticEvil said:


> there's no point indeed. no matter how hard you try to convince yourselves otherwise, mbti and socionics is the same. i can accept the fact that socionics explanations and definitions dig deeper, clarify things etc. but mbti and socionics are two painters painting the same thing. you can say mbti is left behind even. but you can't say socionics is something else.


I can and do assert that MBTI and Socionics aren't the same. It's why you're think you're an ENTP, but are evidently not an ILE. You even bitched about all the :L: going on in one of the other threads and you hate all the :L: in Socionics. :wink:

So keep asserting your bullshit, cause it's obvious to everyone here that you're talking out of your ass. :laughing:


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## ChaoticEvil (Aug 17, 2017)

it is not valued as much as ne and ti, i clearly stated that. entps value ne first, ti second, fe third. as a result i will ignore fe easier than ti and ne. that's what i said. otherwise, of course i value fe more than si or ni or te or fi or se. 

it's my third most differentiated function so first two always has priority.

also, i don't worship cognitive functions. you are a stupid socionics fan boy and if a person criticize ti he can't be entp... you are immensely dense and simplistic, really. if i see shitty ti, extremely and blindly categorical, i will criticize that too. when someone tell me entp and infp relationship will follow 1,2,3,4 steps all the time, i will criticize that shitty, pragmatic, simplistic se+ti and that's what i did. 

aaaall hail holy tetris block! that's definitely not fe, that's something competely different. that's a completely new thing! sure! hahah. why don't you use alchemical symbols for "components" too? that would make them totally different as well!


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Bastard said:


> Not in Socionics, they're not.
> 
> :i: :t: :f: :s: : :L: :e: and :r: are all information elements. The functions are components, numbered 1-8, that determines how these information elements are used by a particular sociotype.
> 
> @Tellus is trying to unify Socionics with MBTI. I don't see much of a point. But good luck with that.


what does "information elements" even means? what's the connection to how the brain functions?


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## ChaoticEvil (Aug 17, 2017)

Red Panda said:


> what does "information elements" even means? what's the connection to how the brain functions?


they are just renaming cognitive functions as symbols. information elements are cognitive functions and components are slots. for exampe that black tetris block is fe and for an entp it is the third component. so this is basically a very counter-intuitive way of saying fe is entp's third function.

it's a fake complexity and it's tacky.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Wisteria said:


> Thought you said the functional stack was invalid. Now you're using them to prove a point?


I said that Harold Grant function stack is inaccurate.



> I meant the basic S, N, T and F descriptions that you posted. It's the same as MBTI, which is dichotomies based.


No, they are not the same. 

_Intuition (N)
_
_Paying the most attention to impressions or the meaning and patterns of the information I get. I would rather learn by thinking a problem through than by hands-on experience. I'm interested in new things and what might be possible, so that I think more about the future than the past. I like to work with symbols or abstract theories, even if I don't know how I will use them. I remember events more as an impression of what it was like than as actual facts or details of what happened._
_The following statements generally apply to me:
_
_I remember events by what I read "between the lines" about their meaning._
_I solve problems by leaping between different ideas and possibilities._
_I am interested in doing things that are new and different._
_I like to see the big picture, then to find out the facts._
_I trust impressions, symbols, and metaphors more than what I actually experienced_
_Sometimes I think so much about new possibilities that I never look at how to make them a reality._

This is a description of Intuition. It is not a definition.

Also, you must include Extraversion and Introversion.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> Se, Ne, Ni, etc are not functions, they are S+E, N+E and so on. Extraversion and introversion are general attitude of consciousness, the functions are S,N,T,F.


Yes... according to MBTT/MBTI (and Jung).

My view is that Se, Ne, Ni etc _are_ functions. But Se is not an extroverted function and Ni is not an introverted function etc.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Red Panda said:


> what does "information elements" even means? what's the connection to how the brain functions?


The functions in socionics are from 1 to 8;

Leading, Creative, Role, Vulnerable, Suggestive, Mobilising, Ignoring, Demonstrative

[video]http://i.imgur.com/wc9AS.jpg[/video]

Most similar to the functional stacks "dominant," "auxiliairy" etc. So don't confuse the terminolgy because functions in MBTI is not the same as functions in socionics. 

The information elements are Si :s: Se :f: and so on.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Tellus said:


> This is a description of Intuition. It is not a definition.


You can't be serious. You're being pedantic af. 



> Also, you must include Extraversion and Introversion.


You didn't in your OP though.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Bastard said:


> Not in Socionics, they're not.
> 
> :i: :t: :f: :s: : :L: :e: and :r: are all information elements. The functions are components, numbered 1-8, that determines how these information elements are used by a particular sociotype.
> 
> @*Tellus* is trying to unify Socionics with MBTI. I don't see much of a point. But good luck with that.


No, I am not trying to unify Socionics with MBTI. I am trying to define the functions and create an accurate model.


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## Bastard (Feb 4, 2018)

Tellus said:


> No, I am not trying to unify Socionics with MBTI. I am trying to define the functions and create an accurate model.


If it looks like a duck...


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Wisteria said:


> You can't be serious. You're being pedantic af.


You have to be "pedantic"... (vague) descriptions are more or less useless if you want to build a model.



> You didn't in your OP though.


Because my functions are not directly related to Extraversion and Introversion.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Bastard said:


> If it looks like a duck...


But it doesn't... Extraversion/Introversion is an essential part of MBTI functions and types. 

Extraversion/Introversion is only indirectly related to my functions.


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