# ENFP cruelty



## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

roly poly said:


> I would say I'm different, though - I'm not exactly in tune with social norms. I don't really care what society thinks. Perhaps this offends them. In my experience the hate has always started with them. It's almost like once I've met them, they go out of their way to try to destroy me. Some of the things ENFPs have done to me are unspeakably evil. The NF temperament _*is said to be stereotypically kind and gentle and it seems such a strange dichotomy that monsters can have such a temperament.*_


I would the same with INFJs in some circumstances as well, not all. 

We cannot assume that all ENFPs are cruel, due to the situations with some ENFPs, just as we cannot assume all INFJs are cruel due to the situations with some INFJs.


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## sweetraglansweater (Jul 31, 2015)

roly poly said:


> First off, and most importantly, this thread does not set out to be typist, even though it may sound that way.
> 
> I've been reflecting on the journey life has taken me on and with that the people who have hurt my feelings most, offended me and tried to destroy me. Funny enough, the worst, most cruel people I've ever met have been ENFPs. In fact, most all ENFPs I've known have been complete psychos. I've known a few. It seems strange. The INFJ-ENFP relationship is said to be one of the best. Not in my experience, however. I'm not entirely sure why the ENFPs I've known have hated me so much. I assure you, I am not an evil person. I'm actually a genuinely nice person and I think most people in my life would agree with that. I would say I'm different, though - I'm not exactly in tune with social norms. I don't really care what society thinks. Perhaps this offends them. In my experience the hate has always started with them. It's almost like once I've met them, they go out of their way to try to destroy me. Some of the things ENFPs have done to me are unspeakably evil. The NF temperament is said to be stereotypically kind and gentle and it seems such a strange dichotomy that monsters can have such a temperament. I don't believe that all ENFPs are monsters, of course, but there is something off about them - their cruelty. It scares me and appalls me. Some may say here that all types are capable of cruelty and that's true and it may have nothing to do with type and that may be true also. But considering this within the scope of type (that's why I post this here), I have noticed a trend in ENFPs and how they behave, but I can't quite put my finger on it, so I was hoping to tease it out here.
> 
> Does anyone else have this experience of ENFPs? Do ENFPs out there hate INFJs? Have ENFPs here tried and/or succeeded in destroying someone in some way? If so, why?


Do I know you? I swear I have and INFJ girlfriend with a kind of vampiric ENFP ex. It'd be so weird if you were her...


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

I think it's amazing how people are making this thread into a big issue about me saying that all ENFPs are cruel. I absolutely never said that. I clearly said that ENFPs in my life have stereotypically been cruel. I even specifically said that I assume it to be true that not all ENFPs are cruel. If that is typist to you people then so be it. Your religious creed is false and incoherent: it does not match up with the evidence I have supplied. It does seem very convenient, though, to call someone out on typism if you don't like the content of their message. Only half the respondents actually understood what this conversation is about. If you think this is some kind of tyrannical attack on a majority opinion you should consider the scope within which this conversation has taken place. If it's too complicated for you or too outside the realm of your universal labels and you have an inflated opinion just blog about it instead. This thread deserves an intelligent response whether you like it or not. 
@Aizar Nice to see you've stuck to your own standards.


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

@sweetraglansweater Lol! No. I don't have any ENFPs exes. Hope your friend is okay. :crying:


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

AriesLilith said:


> I've had some heated conflicts with an ENFP coworker once and he was very controlling during that conflict, but I feel that he is still a good person despite probably some few personal issues (don't we all have a few of them). I doubt that I'd drive him to feel the need to torture me and be cruel, unless he has serious issues or I do something unforgivable to hm? I doubt that any sane and normal person would be that cruel in any given normal situation.


I get the feeling I'm an innocent person on trial for whether I deserve to be tortured for being the person I am. That's like saying someone who was raped probably deserved it - she must have done something to upset the perfect ENFP. That's really demeaning. I'm sure that's not what you really mean, though. The sad fact is that some perfectly normal people don't need a justifiable motive to torture someone. They do it anyway just because they want to. Is every member of the prison population a psychopath? No. A lot of them are just people who have done bad things. You can call it sick - some people are just sick. They're sadists by day and then go home and kiss their families by night. They do sick things, but that doesn't take from the fact that they're still - in my case - ENFPs. Some people are nice and some people really just aren't.

What you say about how your co-worker tends to project holds true in my life too. The ones I've known have been very concerned with how I fit into social categories and kind of judge me by how I fit into them. Can that correctly be said to be an ENFP thing? I wonder how ENFPs think of it.


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

roly poly said:


> Yes! I'm sure they were ENFPs! And no, he was not a psychopath. He was actually a healthy ENFP.
> Does cruelty upset the neat, little boxes we use to describe groups of people? I'm sorry, but it's a reality. Types do bad things.


Yes, "types do bad things." Several people have stated that any type can be cruel. No one is attacking you. You are not describing a healthy person, regardless of their type. Psychopaths know from right from wrong and they do wrong anyway. It is not perfectly normal to torture someone. 

It sounds like your boundaries were violated. If that's the case, learning to protect yourself, your emotional and physical boundaries, will help you if you're faced with an unhealthy person in the future.


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

Em, he was a healthy ENFP.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

roly poly said:


> I get the feeling I'm an innocent person on trial for whether I deserve to be tortured for being the person I am. That's like saying someone who was raped probably deserved it - she must have done something to upset the perfect ENFP. That's really demeaning. I'm sure that's not what you really mean, though. The sad fact is that some perfectly normal people don't need a justifiable motive to torture someone. They do it anyway just because they want to. Is every member of the prison population a psychopath? No. A lot of them are just people who have done bad things. You can call it sick - some people are just sick. They're sadists by day and then go home and kiss their families by night. They do sick things, but that doesn't take from the fact that they're still - in my case - ENFPs. Some people are nice and some people really just aren't.
> 
> What you say about how your co-worker tends to project holds true in my life too. The ones I've known have been very concerned with how I fit into social categories and kind of judge me by how I fit into them. Can that correctly be said to be an ENFP thing? I wonder how ENFPs think of it.


No, I don't think that anyone here is judging if you deserve to be tortured or not. That'd be an awful thing to do.

But IMO, what everyone is pointing out is that type itself doesn't make someone cruel. I understand you said that you acknowledge that not all ENFPs are cruel, and that you don't intend to make this thread typism, but if your thread's objective is to find a connection between being ENFP and being cruel then it will unavoidably go that way. That is why people are arguing against the existence of correlation between ENFP and cruelty.

Also, a cruel person is not healthy. Wanting to hurt, abuse or manipulate is not healthy. It does not make the abuse you suffered ok of course, but it might be related to other psychological reasons than MBTI types.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

roly poly said:


> I get the feeling I'm an innocent person on trial for whether I deserve to be tortured for being the person I am. That's like saying someone who was raped probably deserved it - she must have done something to upset the perfect ENFP. That's really demeaning. I'm sure that's not what you really mean, though. The sad fact is that some perfectly normal people don't need a justifiable motive to torture someone. They do it anyway just because they want to. Is every member of the prison population a psychopath? No. A lot of them are just people who have done bad things. You can call it sick - some people are just sick. They're sadists by day and then go home and kiss their families by night. They do sick things, but that doesn't take from the fact that they're still - in my case - ENFPs. Some people are nice and some people really just aren't.
> 
> What you say about how your co-worker tends to project holds true in my life too. The ones I've known have been very concerned with how I fit into social categories and kind of judge me by how I fit into them. Can that correctly be said to be an ENFP thing? I wonder how ENFPs think of it.


"The ones I've known have been very concerned with how I fit into social categories and kind of judge me by how I fit into them. Can that correctly be said to be an ENFP thing? I wonder how ENFPs think of "

I'm going to talk talk cognitive functions with - 
No what you have just described is more common for Fe users to do more so than fi

Meaning - it's more likely for an xxfj to do this than an Enfp . Why ? Bc if we are going by stereotype and cognitive function - 
Fi don't care for group harmony - fitting in- or following social norms rules as much as fe users 
Enfp don't really compare ( or should I say fi users ) 
For example - if a topic of celebrities nude photos were leaked 

Fi - this is disgusting - I can't believe somebody has the nerve to do that 

Fe- this is disgusting - im mad for myself and everyone involved - we don't deserve this 

It's hard to not find your post offensive - 

You labeled a personality type as being cruel and then you set examples about everyone you know that are enfp are psycho paths /people who aren't TRUE to their OWN emotions and wears an evil mask - and then refused to call the type unhealthy - 
I don't know who you are - I hope this is a troll thread . 
But from the information that I've gathered - you're very judgmental and jump into conclusion too quickly 


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## TheJ (Aug 3, 2015)

I'm just very curious as how you've come to the conclusion that these people were all ENFPs. Have you given each a test? In my personal experience It's really quite difficult to guess the true personality of a person by looking at them from the outside in.


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

I really can't help that you misunderstood and despite my efforts to clarify you continue to put words in my mouth. I would rather continue with the actual conversation which is about how ENFPs can be cruel (as in, what they hate about other people so much that it would motivate them to want to take it out on someone) and why ENFPs might clash with INFJs, which is not typist (I believe another thread exists entitled "INFJ cruelty" and was also not considered typist) - I think _you_ are making the generalisations here, not me. It is only you who are saying that your MBTI labels equate to cruelty. The thread's objective, which should really be quite obvious at this point, is what would drive an ENFP to be cruel (could ask it about any type, but I'm interested in ENFP cruelty) (what gets under their skin, what offends them more than anything, etc.), because in my humble fucking opinion, some ENFPs _are_ cruel and I'd like to understand _that_ correlation which exists in _my_ life better.


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

@TheJ They _told_ me they were ENFPs and judging by their behaviour, I'd agree with their test result. God.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

roly poly said:


> I really can't help that you misunderstood and despite my efforts to clarify you continue to put words in my mouth. I would rather continue with the actual conversation which is about how ENFPs can be cruel (as in, what they hate about other people so much that it would motivate them to want to take it out on someone) and why ENFPs might clash with INFJs, which is not typist (I believe another thread exists entitled "INFJ cruelty" and was also not considered typist) - I think _you_ are making the generalisations here, not me. It is only you who are saying that your MBTI labels equate to cruelty. The thread's objective, which should really be quite obvious at this point, is what would drive an ENFP to be cruel (could ask it about any type, but I'm interested in ENFP cruelty) (what gets under their skin, what offends them more than anything, etc.), because in my humble fucking opinion, some ENFPs _are_ cruel and I'd like to understand _that_ correlation which exists in _my_ life better.


No actually if a post about infj cruelty pops up in any forum I'll call the thread subjective and irrational as well . 
I'm not throwing words into your mouth and if I misinterpreted your post - I apologize - I'm just answering your question and stating what I think- and so far I'm not wrong - you are very judgmental and defensive on what I read . 

But to answer your question - I would never drive anyone to living hell even if I'm in my unhealthy stage - my way of expressing resentment will be repeatingly remind them how annoying they are and point out their flaws to them or I'll turn ice cold and emotionless - I tend to get this way when people starts taking away my freedom or try to categorize me into a box or stereotype or compared me to what is appropriate for social norm - with all that said - I don't think my problems rare - I'm quite sure all 16 types would agree with me on this matter .

I get along quite well with Infjs - online and Irl and hold no resentment towards the type 


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

roly poly said:


> Em, he was a healthy ENFP.


You are saying that torturing and trying to kill others is healthy ENFP behavior?
Did they appear to be normal, happy, lively individuals? Was there a sudden inexplicable change?
Because acting healthy doesn't equal healthy.
Were there any red flags early on that made you wonder if something was off? 
Red flags can help you avoid this kind of trouble in future relationships.

@ai.tran.75: It would take serious, unresolved dysfunction and controlling behaviors for me to become unrelentingly negative toward another person. Even with a past emotionally abusive relationship, I don't think I ever did become unrelenting. I just stood up to it and called it when it happened.


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

I've only ever been hurt by myself.


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## foreverDreaming (Jul 30, 2015)

No ENFP is the best dude


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

@Lilsnowy Okay, so does "healthy" mean someone who engages in socially acceptable behaviour, or does it mean someone who is developed in their MBTI functions? If it's the former then he was probably not healthy given that deviance is not socially acceptable, but if it's the latter, then he certainly was.


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## Most Awesome Flyer (Sep 28, 2015)

roly poly said:


> @Lilsnowy Okay, so does "healthy" mean someone who engages in socially acceptable behaviour, or does it mean someone who is developed in their MBTI functions? If it's the former then he was probably not healthy given that deviance is not socially acceptable, but if it's the latter, then he certainly was.


Im pretty sure unhealthy means you show typical negative traits of your type at a severe level


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

roly poly said:


> @Lilsnowy Okay, so does "healthy" mean someone who engages in socially acceptable behaviour, or does it mean someone who is developed in their MBTI functions? If it's the former then he was probably not healthy given that deviance is not socially acceptable, but if it's the latter, then he certainly was.


So how exactly does he shows healthy development of an enfp ? How is he fully develop in Ne Fi Te and Si ? Curious 


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

Most Awesome Flyer said:


> Im pretty sure unhealthy means you show typical negative traits of your type at a severe level


I see... Well, he was a healthy ENFP.


Does anyone here have experience with this type of thing? I'd really appreciate your perspective.


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

Wtf? lol
You understood nothing I just said. I've never had a relationship with an ENFP. I also never said I thought it was normal and healthy to want to kill someone. lol


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

@Korvyna Thanks so much!


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## Korvyna (Dec 4, 2009)

roly poly said:


> @_Korvyna_ Thanks so much!


No problem. Glad I could help. roud:


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## Most Awesome Flyer (Sep 28, 2015)

roly poly said:


> First off, and most importantly, this thread does not set out to be typist, even though it may sound that way.
> 
> I've been reflecting on the journey life has taken me on and with that the people who have hurt my feelings most, offended me and tried to destroy me. Funny enough, the worst, most cruel people I've ever met have been ENFPs. In fact, most all ENFPs I've known have been complete psychos. I've known a few. It seems strange. The INFJ-ENFP relationship is said to be one of the best. Not in my experience, however. I'm not entirely sure why the ENFPs I've known have hated me so much. I assure you, I am not an evil person. I'm actually a genuinely nice person and I think most people in my life would agree with that. I would say I'm different, though - I'm not exactly in tune with social norms. I don't really care what society thinks. Perhaps this offends them. In my experience the hate has always started with them. It's almost like once I've met them, they go out of their way to try to destroy me. Some of the things ENFPs have done to me are unspeakably evil. The NF temperament is said to be stereotypically kind and gentle and it seems such a strange dichotomy that monsters can have such a temperament. I don't believe that all ENFPs are monsters, of course, but there is something off about them - their cruelty. It scares me and appalls me. Some may say here that all types are capable of cruelty and that's true and it may have nothing to do with type and that may be true also. But considering this within the scope of type (that's why I post this here), I have noticed a trend in ENFPs and how they behave, but I can't quite put my finger on it, so I was hoping to tease it out here.
> 
> Does anyone else have this experience of ENFPs? Do ENFPs out there hate INFJs? Have ENFPs here tried and/or succeeded in destroying someone in some way? If so, why?


Could you maybe give some examples what they did?


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

roly poly said:


> What you say is interesting.
> I have to clarify, though, just because. I didn't provoke the ENFP. He hated me for who I am. So, I didn't provoke him in the sense of held a knife to his throat and he lashed out in self-defense. It was more like innocent woman walks across the street, he doesn't like the way she walks and stabs her in the throat. It was similar with the others, just not as extreme, though with the others I could suspect that I might have done/said something to them and they got pissed off but didn't say (like, kept on smiling) and then lashed out with scorn.
> I also think ENFPs take things equally as personally as INFJs, just in a different way. I think - now I may be wrong - their standards of what is acceptable social behaviour can be easily offended, just as the with the INFJ everything that is part of their goals needs to be defended. I think it's possible that he found my INFJ goals and values, which make me who I am, offensive.
> Also, I wasn't wondering if NFPs hate NFJs, just whether some ENFPs out there hate some INFJs. ;-)
> @Korvyna Thanks for your response. If there is more you could share about your experiences, I'd really love to know. Please be as forthright as possible.


If this person hated you for who you are, then it is likely you possess deep morals and values that go against the NFP. There is no way to be sure if this person was actually an ENFP, we only have your word and these ENFP's are not here to defend themselves. It has been in my own personal experience that some people can just rub us the wrong way, they don't have to do anything in particular, they just need to exist. NFP have deep rooted morals and values, and If you cross them it can get ugly. They are not very forgiving in terms of dealing with people who don't balance/or somehow be on the same morality level. Not everyone will connect or bond, it doesn't matter what type we are cognitively. I didn't read the Intro because I already know you have only given your side of the story by the comments here, you didn't accept any accountability for what could have transpired given the ENFPs point of view.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

roly poly said:


> Wtf? lol
> You understood nothing I just said. I've never had a relationship with an ENFP. I also never said I thought it was normal and healthy to want to kill someone. lol


No, you said that all ENFP's are sociopaths. Yeah, I don't know hwy anyone would be offended by that.


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> we only have your word and these ENFP's are not here to defend themselves.


So I'm on trial? Is it not good enough that I say an ENFP who said he tested as ENFP and was clearly an ENFP tortured me? Wtf?



MuChApArAdOx said:


> If this person hated you for who you are, then it is likely you possess deep morals and values that go against the NFP... It has been in my own personal experience that some people can just rub us the wrong way, they don't have to do anything in particular, they just need to exist.


I wonder about this. This is what I've been trying to get at. What kind of thing would rub you the wrong way?


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## Sangmu (Feb 18, 2014)

Without examples, we're left to assume you're a bit off your rocker. We don't want to...but it's difficult assume sanity otherwise. 

"Unspeakably cruel" is like torturing and killing someones family or pets. 

The INFJs I've gotten close to I've found harsh and socially treacherous but I wouldn't go on their subforum and say I find most of them shockingly inhumane. At least not without expecting some backlash. I can also see, somewhat, the role I played in dissolution of my INFJ/INFP friendships. 

Is it possible you had unintentionally hurt these ENFPs? Keep in mind that ENFPs, INFPs, ESTJs, and ISTJs (fi,ne,si,ti brigade) are essentially straight-forward, simple types and can find the complexity of an INFJ hard to handle. It can lead to a lot of misinterpretation, esp. in youth.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

roly poly said:


> So I'm on trial? Is it not good enough that I say an ENFP who said he tested as ENFP and was clearly an ENFP tortured me? Wtf?


You were the one who first put all ENFP's on trial based upon your experience with one. Now you need to prove your case.


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## Sangmu (Feb 18, 2014)

~


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

WhateverLolaWants said:


> Without examples, we're left to assume you're a bit off your rocker. We don't want to...but it's difficult assume sanity otherwise.


No, I'm okay with it.


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## Korvyna (Dec 4, 2009)

roly poly said:


> I wonder about this. This is what I've been trying to get at. What kind of thing would rub you the wrong way?


Well, for starters, I can take it very personally if someone criticizes or insults the way I view life, the world, my morals, ethics, etc. As stated previous NFPs are pretty dead set on their morals. If someone says something that doesn't fit into them it can rub us the wrong way. And, it doesn't always have to be about morals. If someone says something that goes against anything we believe in...depending on how it is phrased we might take offense and go on the defense. And, I know for me, depending on the other person's reaction or tone...my defensive is not pretty at all. I am a fighter, and when I feel attacked, I fight back, and it's not always a clean fight.


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

WhateverLolaWants said:


> "Unspeakably cruel" is like torturing and killing someones family or pets.


That's kind of how it was. 



WhateverLolaWants said:


> The INFJs I've gotten close to I've found harsh and socially treacherous but I wouldn't go on their subforum and say I find most of them shockingly inhumane. At least not without expecting some backlash. I can also see, somewhat, the role I played in dissolution of my INFJ/INFP friendships.
> 
> Is it possible you had unintentionally hurt these ENFPs?


I already said I thought it was possible that I said/did something to offend them without knowing what it was. Maybe it was just existing. :sad: I'm not a mind-reader and I don't know what goes on with ENFPs when they don't say the kind of things that offend them. In no case did I do anything intentionally or overtly bitchy. That's why I don't know.
I guess I enquired the way I did because if someone came on the INFJ subforum and did the same I wouldn't have been offended. 
What does socially treacherous mean? Back-stabbing or unpredictable?


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

roly poly said:


> That's kind of how it was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I guess this means that all INFJ's are painfully self-unaware to their own possible short-comings, or idea that could do anything wrong?

Think I'll go start a thread about that.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

I seriously don't know why so many people are getting offended ... to this degree ... with the OP. She is asking a question she honestly wants answers to, is asking in an appropriate place (a place where one should feel comfortable talking about the types and their nuances) and is being completely honest in relaying her perception of her experiences which are profound. What's more, _I've had the exact same experiences with ENFPs_ and so this thread caught my interest. Discluding the people who I assumed were ENFPs, I have known two confirmed ENFPs turn on me with so much cruelty, as if they were personally offended by the fact that I existed and wanted to suffocate that out. I have also wondered to myself what could cause someone to be this cruel and have also wondered if it were a type trait. 

That said, when I think about these people, I see some patterns of behavior which are also characteristic of mental illness, so I factor that in, too. I don't think the OP isn't factoring that in, but simply recognizing a pattern in her life which she honestly would like explained.

I can only somewhat understand why others are taking so much offense to the original post. What is most confusing is why so many people are putting words into her mouth and thoughts into her head which I am having a hard time seeing at all. 

The only thing she said that was even remotefully "offensive" about what she said in my mind was this:

"Psychology is totally relative and lacks scientific merit."

As a clinical psychologist with an aptitude in neurological psychology, I study a lot of the "hard science" of psychology and less of what people call the "soft science", but this has nothing to do with this thread topic or the observation of cruelty being more common in certain types than others. I can say, also, that I tend to see ISTPs as snarky badasses and INTPs as more nerdy, but these are just the categories I put in my head so I can organize my information about them better. Like the OP, I don't think *all* ENFPs are cruel because two of them were so much to myself and similarly I don't think all ISTPs are snarky or badass or that all INTPs are nerds. However, I have wondered about what makes an ISTP more likely to be perceived as a badass as well as what makes an INTP more likely to be perceived as a nerd. 

Essentially, the OP is saying, "I have perceived ENFPs as being X, can anyone tell me why that might be?"


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## Korvyna (Dec 4, 2009)

People got bent out of shape because of the way it was phrased. While she didn't see anything offense or off putting about the way she approached the subject, ENFPs (and some others) did. It was a hard pill for me to swallow the way it was phrased because I generally want to be perceived as likable and friendly. When I read something like that, it was almost like a broad sweeping statement about all ENFPs, even though that's not what she said at all. However, as an over thinker, that's what my brain twists it into. It's a flaw of mine, and I'm 100% capable of admitting it.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Korvyna said:


> People got bent out of shape because of the way it was phrased. While she didn't see anything offense or off putting about the way she approached the subject, ENFPs (and some others) did. It was a hard pill for me to swallow the way it was phrased because I generally want to be perceived as likable and friendly. When I read something like that, it was almost like a broad sweeping statement about all ENFPs, even though that's not what she said at all. However, as an over thinker, that's what my brain twists it into. It's a flaw of mine, and I'm 100% capable of admitting it.


specifically when we say "There was something mentally wrong with that person." and she keeps insisting " No this is a normal ENFP." That's a pretty horrific accusation.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

roly poly said:


> Wtf? lol
> You understood nothing I just said. I've never had a relationship with an ENFP. I also never said I thought it was normal and healthy to want to kill someone. lol


Glad you find my humor funny - and that I'm wrong but here are the words that you have posted for me to come to my sarcastic conclusion  

"One of them tried to kill me in cold blood and tortured me first. I was innocent. He knew that and did it anyway. And had a lot of fun doing it. He just hated me and it was pure sadism. "

"no, he was not a psychopath. He was actually a healthy ENFP."

"If I ever see an ENFP again, I'll piss my pants. "


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

brightflashes said:


> I seriously don't know why so many people are getting offended ... to this degree ... with the OP. She is asking a question she honestly wants answers to, is asking in an appropriate place (a place where one should feel comfortable talking about the types and their nuances) and is being completely honest in relaying her perception of her experiences which are profound. What's more, _I've had the exact same experiences with ENFPs_ and so this thread caught my interest. Discluding the people who I assumed were ENFPs, I have known two confirmed ENFPs turn on me with so much cruelty, as if they were personally offended by the fact that I existed and wanted to suffocate that out. I have also wondered to myself what could cause someone to be this cruel and have also wondered if it were a type trait.
> 
> That said, when I think about these people, I see some patterns of behavior which are also characteristic of mental illness, so I factor that in, too. I don't think the OP isn't factoring that in, but simply recognizing a pattern in her life which she honestly would like explained.
> 
> ...


I'm not offended by what you posted at all - but you see the difference between your post and hers is that you agree that these enfps that have done you wrong are unhealthy - 
As to she argues that a psychopath who tried to kill her is healthy- this is where it becomes offensive to me - perhaps it's the fi blinding me - but she pretty much stereotyped enfp ( my type by cognitive functions ) as something that is against my personal value. 

I'm sorry that you've met some cruel enfps - but don't give up on the type - I relate a lot to infps and my bff and aunt ( whom I look up to ) are infps and I can sometimes relate to infps more than my own type on this forum  
And they like me quite much - my aunt and bff would risk their life for me and I would do the same 

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## Sangmu (Feb 18, 2014)

roly poly said:


> What does socially treacherous mean? Back-stabbing or unpredictable?


Pretty much. I define it as a friend who is unreliable, says negative things about your appearance/capabilities (subtle digs), back-stabbing and unpredictable.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

roly poly said:


> So I'm on trial? Is it not good enough that I say an ENFP who said he tested as ENFP and was clearly an ENFP tortured me? Wtf?
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder about this. This is what I've been trying to get at. What kind of thing would rub you the wrong way?


It isn't a thing per say, it is a vibe. I know instantly whether I will connect with another or not, they don't have to say much of anything, it has nothing to do with their interest, topics or ideas, it is a vibe they possess when first meeting. And although often it has to do with our Fi detecting something off, it is the vibe of a person and their overall persona. Their energy is not matching yours, you may interact with them only to confirm their energy will never match yours, the flow of bonding energy is not there.

Aside from this there are so many things that could rub me the wrong way, from the way a person carries themselves, to the way they laugh, eat, talk-express themselves, to maybe the way they walk, haha !! Now don't get me wrong, I personally wouldn't hold a grudge against anyone for doing any of these things, however I know that their energy somehow brushes up against me rather than flow through me, I don't waste my time trying to figure out why it happens. I'm sure this exact same things happens to other people when I'm in their company, I'm not bothered by it either.

You tend to embellish your troubles with ENFPs, I'm not buying you were tortured, pics or it didn't happen. You have left absolutely no proof of your claims. INFJ can't handle the truth in my experiences, because they have complexities in relation to human behaviour, they often do not understand simple tasks and straightforward communication. They are on the defense of everyone around them. NFP are much more complex creatures than NFJ, however we keep a lot to ourselves and refrain from pointing that long finger at other people. Essentially we NFP tend to be much more developed in the EQ department. This has been my own personal experiences with NFJ's before some troll comes along with BLAH BLAH, how dare you put all NFJ in one box, I'm not. And if you somehow relate or on the defense about it, well then the shoe fits.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

There is always that quote floating around about "I want to know what you live for". Now imagine a person like that, who deals in extreme direct closeness, has been offended by you. Fi users tend to skip to the meat and soul of things. They will skip to the meat and soul of you and do their best to damage it if you have inadvertently done the same to them.


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## Laguna (Mar 21, 2012)

Need more information. I'm not offended you have broad brush stroked my type as "cruel," but I have to wonder what you actually experienced. I can say though that I have a very close INFJ relative. If we are in "getting along / clicking mode" ... we can talk for 4 hours straight with intensity and passion and come away feeling like we just both sat in a dynamic college debate course. When we are not exactly getting along / clicking, HE can be and has been extremely "cruel" to me at times to the point of bringing out the worst in me. Do I think ENFPs and INFJs can have a tendency to clash? Yeah- because of my experience with my relative I would say so. I think it is the Ni that you guys have (which ENFPs can find creepy a lot of the time) and the Ne that we have that you can misinterpret as us telling you what to do or judging you in some way. It seems INFJs need a lot of notice for things too whereas ENFPs are extremely spontaneous. By the time y'all make the decision to get on board the train, we have ditched the train plans and we are half-way over the Atlantic on a jumbo jet. Disagreement ensues. BTW - ANY unhealthy type will be a bitch to deal with. Sounds like your ENFP peeps may be unhealthy or immature but also - the way you snapped in the beginning few posts at the first responder to this thread who was being extremely chill makes me think the problem might be you.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

I find it odd that so few here are able to see the potential for cruelty here. Perhaps it is a male ENFP thing?


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Cagnazzo said:


> I find it odd that so few here are able to see the potential for cruelty here. Perhaps it is a male ENFP thing?


Under the right circumstances ANY type can be cruel. I don't buy into one type being more cruel than another, however because there are over 7billion people in the Universe and I happen to know a few choose who have been cruel doesn't make it cruel across the board. The ENFP males I know don't have a cruel bone in their body, however you get them at the right time, in the right circumstances, with the right people, I wouldn't mess with them.

It is no different than 2 people who commit a horrific crime. As individuals separate from one another they could be decent human beings, however sometimes when you mix two personalities together under the right circumstances, they can both become 2 entirely different people. I saw a show on personalities one time and they explained it very much like this.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

roly poly said:


> - their standards of what is acceptable social behaviour can be easily offended, just as the with the INFJ everything that is part of their goals needs to be defended.
> Also, I wasn't wondering if NFPs hate NFJs, just whether some ENFPs out there hate some INFJs. ;-)
> [


It's unlikely for any Pe Dom to care about acceptable social behavior - even less so for fi users since fi works in a way that we don't like to be categorize in a box . 

To answer your question yes and no . 
There are a few nfjs that I hate such as the enfj that kidnapped me as a teenager and tried to kill me (he's in jail now )and another enfj that I briefly dated who was overly needy and jealous . Those unhealthy fe are my worst nightmare and if I recalled correctly I argued nonstop with my enfj ex bc he kept on assuming my emotions and when I tease him in an endearment way he mistake it for manipulation.
But with the exception of those 2 Im actually really close with many xnfjs , one of my closest friend is an enfj - we connect in so many ways and I find her sweet and understanding , I have a close infj friend who I can talk to for hours and we connect really well -he's my favorite friend. 


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## roly poly (Feb 28, 2015)

ai.tran.75 said:


> "One of them tried to kill me in cold blood and tortured me first. I was innocent. He knew that and did it anyway. And had a lot of fun doing it. He just hated me and it was pure sadism. "
> 
> "no, he was not a psychopath. He was actually a healthy ENFP."
> 
> "If I ever see an ENFP again, I'll piss my pants. "


Oh, my God. You stupid bitch. Sadism and psychopathy are two completely different things. Also, risking your life for your family doesn't make you not-cruel in other circumstances, so I don't know what you're trying to say there. Why are you obsessed with me pissing my pants? 
@MuChApArAdOx To be honest, I've never looked at someone and immediately disliked them, or wished they never existed for how they walked, talked, or laughed. Idk, must be an NFP thing. 



MuChApArAdOx said:


> I'm not buying you were tortured, pics or it didn't happen.


HOW FUCKING _DARE_ YOU?!



MuChApArAdOx said:


> Under the right circumstances ANY type can be cruel. I don't buy into one type being more cruel than another


This thread is about ENFP cruelty. 



Cagnazzo said:


> I find it odd that so few here are able to see the potential for cruelty here. Perhaps it is a male ENFP thing?


I find it odd too. 
Hm, yes, well, the ENFP guys I've known have definitely been more cruel than the ENFP girls, and that was cruelty on astronomical levels, but the ENFP girls have been pretty cruel too. In a more bitchy way, though. The level of extreme cruelty that I've been talking about has only occurred with ENFP guys. It was very dominating in the sense of they wanted the power to destroy me so I didn't exist in any way, shape or form, wanted to prove how much better they were than me by pointing out my weaknesses, while the ENFP girl cruelty was more dominating in the sense of they wanted to destroy me socially, as in scapegoat me. It was almost like trying to make a public example of me, or something. In my experience ENFPs have been very concerned with social etiquette, more so than what you'd expect from an INFJs Fe. INFJs are so often called diplomatic, probably because of our animated and polite demeanor, but I find that ultimately we don't actually care that much about how we fit into society socially, as in what social group we choose to associate with because of the implications this might have for the person we are within that social sphere. I don't even think that far - I don't have that intricate social network. Could this be another reason for the clash, I wonder? The ENFP wants social acceptance and the INFJ whose natural existence is one that doesn't care about social acceptance in that way offends the ENFP - by existing. This doesn't really explain the cruelty, but I think it is a contributing factor in my situations. 
I'd really like to know any other thoughts you have on this.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

roly poly said:


> Oh, my God. You stupid bitch. Sadism and psychopathy are two completely different things. Also, risking your life for your family doesn't make you not-cruel in other circumstances, so I don't know what you're trying to say there. Why are you obsessed with me pissing my pants?
> @MuChApArAdOx To be honest, I've never looked at someone and immediately disliked them, or wished they never existed for how they walked, talked, or laughed. Idk, must be an NFP thing.
> 
> 
> ...


I reposted what you posted that's all I did - I don't think what I did was so cruel - get a sense of humor . Sadism or psychopathy is equivalent to unhealthy behavior - and I apologize - the thread should only be about Enfps cruelty . I'm not taking this thread too seriously bc I think you're trolling - it just seem unlikely for a healthy infj ( or any type for that matter ) to start up a thread - asking about another types cruelty and get in defense mode any time somebody mention something positive about that type 
For example - 
After @TheJ posted that he hasn't had any bad experience with the enfp type yet - you lashed at him with 


"If you say you've had the opposite experience with ENFPs, why bother posting? unless you're subtly accusing me of lying, in which "


Nobody accused you of lying - just defensive and judgmental , perhaps I'm wrong - but basing upon what you posted on this forum that's the perception that I'm getting of you so far . You still haven't tell the stories of how these enfp are cruel to you and what they have done that betrayed your trust so much - you pointed out flaws that are irrelevant to the type ( that's why people keep on asking you are you sure they're enfp )

Fi - don't care about social/group acceptance - social etiquette 

I'm not trying to attack you - I'm correcting you 
Read up a bit about fe vs fi 
http://funkymbtifiction.tumblr.com/post/68718389402/there-are-two-kinds-of-feelers-which-are-easily

Nobody deserves being tortured - I'm sorry that it has happened you . But if you were to retread all that I have answered to vs what you have written/posted I don't think I'm the bitch out of the 2 of us . 




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## Laguna (Mar 21, 2012)

ai.tran.75 said:


> I reposted what you posted that's all I did - I don't think what I did was so cruel - get a sense of humor . Sadism or psychopathy is equivalent to unhealthy behavior - and I apologize - the thread should only be about Enfps cruelty . I'm not taking this thread too seriously bc I think you're trolling - it just seem unlikely for a healthy infj ( or any type for that matter ) to start up a thread - asking about another types cruelty and get in defense mode any time somebody mention something positive about that type
> For example -
> After @_TheJ_ posted that he hasn't had any bad experience with the enfp type yet - you lashed at him with
> 
> ...


What a cruel ENFP you are. Letting him address you as "stupid bitch" and still being respectful, helpful and nice to him.
Dem damn cruel ENFPs.

:carrot::brocoli:


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

Closed.


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