# Is autism more of an N or S thing?



## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

They tend to do better on IQ tests because their brains are better at problem-solving. Being highly systematized and all. And IQ tests are heavily reliant on pattern-recognition. They're higher in openness because they're eccentric and neuro-divergent. But they also love routine and are uncomfortable with change which points to lower openness. They're highly J which also correlates with lower openness. They don't notice things like body language, tone of voice, etc. Idk if this is more S or N.


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## UraniaIsis (Nov 26, 2014)

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## BlueViolet (Dec 14, 2019)

First, let me say, I have autistic friends. I respect them. I do not try to change them. I join them in their interests. I communicate with them in their "language." Many of us, including myself, have traits on the autism spectrum.

From my experience, people with autism are more likely to have all introverted functions. This is the "AUT" or "SELF" in autism. It is an unbalanced condition that makes functioning within society challenging for them.

Fi not Fe. Emotions are inner-directed. They don't try to please others. They have strong beliefs and values, and they either don't notice or don't care if other people feel differently. If challenged, they will defend their viewpoint, even if it means yelling or crying. You might have to tell them, "I am angry at you," in order for them to know they have offended you.

Ti not Te. They research their interests ceaselessly. Often, that information does not produce anything practical. It is a source of joy for them to understand something completely. They often don't share what they know with other people -- unless someone asks. Then they might talk about it a lot (a lot).

Si not Se. They obsess over dates, numbers, details, things, and aspects of things. They're not big into personal relationships. Nor do they pay much attention to the world at large. Some of them wear the same clothes every day or wear them inside out without noticing. They are easily overwhelmed by their senses. Scratchy fabrics, bright lights, active crowds, or loud noises can be intolerable.

Ni not Ne. They have entire worlds within their minds. This is where they live. They are happy there. Things are congruent and make sense to them there. Conforming to random, unexpected, outside events is unpleasant. They don't seek, and often miss out, on opportunities offered by life.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Aluminum Frost said:


> They tend to do better on IQ tests because their brains are better at problem-solving.


That's not true. At least 50% of people with autism diagnoses also have diagnoses of intellectual disability, meaning they scored below average on an IQ test. 



> And IQ tests are heavily reliant on pattern-recognition.


Maybe some are. Scoring for the Wechsler, the most used IQ test in the United States, is actually somewhat slanted towards verbal ability, not pattern recognition.



> They're higher in openness because they're eccentric and neuro-divergent.


Also not true. Being different than other people does not imply being open to new things. Openness is a cognitive quality, and part of the eccentricity of autistic people is neurological/medical/not really cognitive.



> But they also love routine and are uncomfortable with change which points to lower openness. They're highly J which also correlates with lower openness. They don't notice things like body language, tone of voice, etc. Idk if this is more S or N.


Tl;dr: Autism is neurological and S/N are more cognitive, or at least that's how they are presented in theory. They may have some identifiable neurological basis, but, as far as I know, it hasn't been explored enough to classify autistic traits according to them. S and N are presented as cognitive preferences, and autistic traits are not preferences, not in the same sense anyhow.


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## Reginer (Jun 18, 2020)

Just to point out one thing here. In general autists do better than normal population on IQ tests, but that's only for non verbal parts of tests. On verbal parts they score lower.


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## luka.exe (Aug 28, 2020)

I can't speak for all autistic people because it really is a spectrum of symptoms and traits, and cognitive function preferences may differ depending on things like verbal ability/savant syndrome/etc (or "high-functioning" vs "low-functioning" autism), but I'm autistic and I personally score high on both Ne and Ni in function tests, lowest on Se, and high-average on Si. AllOne's post makes sense (though some things don't apply as much to me as others, again, it's a spectrum), introverted functions seem to come more easily to me in general (though Se is the only function I'm especially low on afaik), though I'm pretty sure I've heard of autistic people with a preference for extroverted functions too.

And while the neurological basis of autism might not necessarily align with the cognitive function preferences, I feel like it could still affect how easy certain functions are for people to use depending which symptoms autistic people have, maybe? For example, I want to strengthen/use Fe more but it takes more conscious effort to do so than using most of the introverted functions, and that's something I've tended to attribute to being autistic (+ the struggle that autism can cause for socializing and interpreting other people's needs/emotions) more so than my function stack, if that makes sense? But maybe I just haven't grasped the cognitive function theory that well yet - it's kinda hard to put my thoughts about it into words but I do see autism influencing my type at least somewhat, even if I can't say exactly how ^^;


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Most current estimates for ID (intellectual disability) among autistic 8-year-olds: 33%









Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring (ADDM) Network


Learn more about the ADDM Network




www.cdc.gov





Autistic people in general are super unlikely to be outscoring normies on any portion of IQ tests.


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## Ecchi (Jun 26, 2018)

Not type related.


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## bmuddy120 (Dec 2, 2017)

I met a autistic ISFP and creator of Pokemon is INXP, I've seen N autistic kids too. I think its easy to say Ns are more autistic especially with scatter-brained Ne users but Sensors can be autistic just as much like my ISFP autistic friend from technichal college. So yeah its not type related.


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## BlueViolet (Dec 14, 2019)

luka.exe said:


> ...I want to strengthen/use Fe more but it takes more conscious effort to do so than using most of the introverted functions, and that's something I've tended to attribute to being autistic (+ the struggle that autism can cause for socializing and interpreting other people's needs/emotions) more so than my function stack, if that makes sense?


Yes, it does make sense. But you can succeed with practice.

Fe: This is a skill for you, not an innate quality. Work on it like you would a physical skill. Use your senses.
1. Look at facial expressions. Read them the way you would, a book.
2. Notice voice quality. Volume and tone are as important as words.
3. Look at body language - posture, arms, legs, head position, hands.
3. Delay your own thoughts and responses! Take time to process information.
4. Mirror expressions and postures to align with the group.

It will feel like play acting, but that's okay. It's not a lie. You are consciously trying to make people happy. This is good for you and good for them - as long as you are not violating your values. Good luck, and have fun. Fe will get you far in life.

Se: Again, use your senses. Go practice in Nature because it is a quiet, pleasant environment with no human bullshit. Do walking meditation. Just walk, block your thoughts, and notice everything around you as long as you can. 

Functionally, you need Se for your own safety. Get out of your head when you are outside of your home, with strange people about. It's dangerous.


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## oliviaofneptune (Jun 26, 2014)

My brother is high-functioning and he is an ISTP. Obsessed with machines and building, and has a really good eye for detail. I admire his ability to learn quickly. He's also very very determined when it comes to reaching goals. Like if he wants to reach a difficult goal in a game he _will _work his ass off to get it.


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## Reginer (Jun 18, 2020)

I am genuinely curious if someone knows of an extroverted case of autism. Maybe that(E vs I) is something which has more correlation with this.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

For one, I would stay away from MBTI letter dichotomies. They simply aren’t accurate.
Also, autism is entirely separate from cognitive type I think. To give @Reginer an example of an extroverted case of autism, my younger brother is an ESFP, and he was diagnosed with autism since he was little. At first, he wouldn’t speak a word, and he pretty much only talked to me, and he would communicate in grunts. He had a lot of difficulty in socialization, and in school I would frequently after to watch over him. He certainly fit the stereotype when he was younger.
He was in fact heavily studied back in the day, since knowledge about autism was just sprouting in the early 2000s.

Despite his diagnosis, he currently is a musician, and loves being around people and is very outgoing. He is a popular person in his friend circles, and is even popular with women. I believe that is his true personality, his autism just adds a little more quirkiness to him.
He still retains that eccentric nature. I found that most autistic people show an obsession over a certain thing. For my brother, it's music. Everything you talk about with him has to relate to that certain thing, or he clues out quickly.
He doesn't like being physically touched, and too much information makes him easily stressed out. He also doesn't deal with his own emotions very well.
Regardless of all that, my brother despite his autism diagnosis, is far more outgoing than I am (That says a lot about INTJs lol). He now has connections with various bands, and has written many songs that have reached success.

In contrast, one of my "friends" (more like we were forced to hang out together) when I was younger had Aspergers. He shared many of the same traits my brother had, but his obsession was in video games. As they both grew up, my brother became more extroverted, and my "friend" just became more introverted. I believe he was an INTP. I think autism just makes people develop slower than average.

What I’m trying to say is that my brother is still very much an ESFP, but then he has autism on top of that. I don't think autism has a bearing on the order of your cognitive functions stack, it may however, influence how much those functions are used.


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

Reginer said:


> I am genuinely curious if someone knows of an extroverted case of autism. Maybe that(E vs I) is something which has more correlation with this.


I do, clinically diagnosed, not just informally. Its like a moth to a flame, desire to be social and connected in a world that does not fit his own brain and thought patterns. lots of severe bouts of depression and self loathing early in life as he struggled to "fit in". Later in life he learned to accept limitations of himself, and adaption to and acceptance of others limitations as well.

I don't think extroversion ASD is common, but it does exist.


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## BlueViolet (Dec 14, 2019)

Reginer said:


> I am genuinely curious if someone knows of an extroverted case of autism. Maybe that(E vs I) is something which has more correlation with this.


Yes. I knew an extroverted autistic guy. He loved to laugh. He was a wild and crazy guy -- dramatic in his gestures and with a loud voice. He loved being funny. Problem was, he was so into his routines, he didn't register his audience response. Like, one time, he thought the fuzz on my sweater was hilarious, so he started plucking it out and laughing like hell. 
I was like, "Dude, you're ruining my sweater." 
Nothing. 
"This sweater is expensive." 
Nothing. 
"You're making me mad!" 
Pause. "I am?"
"Yes!"
"Oh. Sorry."
So, even though he was extroverted, he used his functions internally.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

I've met autistic people with many different types. I think autism is completely separate from MBTI, although different types do present themselves differently. 

So I think the answer to the original question is just... No.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

Can disorders be typed, yes or no?


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

Aluminum Frost said:


> Can disorders be typed, yes or no?


Individuals can usually be typed, yes. 

It can be challenging for many reasons though. Many people with autism present as though they don't care about what others think for example, which can be part of who they are or a coping strategy for dealing with the inability to easily understand others' motivations. 

Our brains are complicated systems of interlocking mechanisms. Sometimes these systems influence each other, meaning it can be harder to distinguish them, but every person has a personality type that is separate from their disorders.


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## DanausPapillon (Aug 13, 2020)

I thought autism couldn't be typed, but OP sounds like very high Si to me...


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

I don't think there's any connection between personality type and autism. Human psychology is much more complex than just one's personality type and there are many other factors to consider, like biology. I don't think we can or should try to view every single aspect of human psychology through the lenses of this single theory, especially since it's only applicable to a part of regular human psychology and autism is an exception to the regular rules.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

Aluminum Frost said:


> 32 posts, not one answer


My honest answer: no.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Aluminum Frost said:


> Can disorders be typed, yes or no?


In general, I think, "no". There are too many variables. I also have this thing ... this hesitancy to mix theories. I understand a disorder isn't a theory, but it comes from a completely different branch of psychology than typology.


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## Aiwass (Jul 28, 2014)

Nowadays, I think autism is *WAY *(like waaay) more well explained by Enneagram than it is by MBTI or Jungian Typology. 

Virtually every single autistic or Aspergers person I know is either a 5 or a 9. Thus far I haven't seen any example who falls outside this rule.


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## Astrida88 (Jun 6, 2019)

I am autistic (Asperger) and I believe to be an ENTP, enneagram 7 (not sure the wing). But I seem to have ADHD as well so I am not typical case or an autistic person. 

My autistic traits are well explained by ENTP personality.

I constantly say something wrong because I love discussions and proving my point despite it being just a theory - but I fail to realize that what I am about to say might hurt someone. Not like I particularly care but it's bothersome because it can lead to "burned bridge" situations and people hating me. 

And I become really moody and depressed if my Si needs are not met. I am sensitive towards stuff like smells, noises and some textures and I need some routine or else I go off tracks and burn myself out (1-2 unusual days are fine but after that I end up forgetting to eat and sleep - I need routine to take care of my needs or else they go unattended and I break down). 

I am well aware I am an exception though. 

I don't get angry when my routine is interrupted (it's just a guideline so I don't forget about my daily needs, not something personal) and I adapt to changes really fast, much faster than some neurotypical people. 
And I understand human psychology and I am a good actor so if I actually focus on that I can predict and invoke human reactions. I simply forget to do it when I am deep in Ne-Ti mode, which is my default mode when interacting with people. 
I am fully able to get into Ne-Fe mode when the situation calls for it (I avoid making phone calls to customers like a plague because I get people angry way too much by saying the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time but when an angry customer actually calls coworkers hand me the phone, because I am able to calm the situation down by getting in the person shoes and explaining everything in the way they understand). 
It's just tiring so I prefer Ne-Ti mode much more, even if it gets me in trouble. Because it comes naturally. And it's fun (till the person gets angry, lol).

Classical autism seems Si-Te or Ni-Te related if you ask me. 

Te wants the outside world to be organised (Ti could care less, they need order in their inner world, the outside world can do whatever it wants as long as it doesn't interrupt the thought processes going inside). 
Si wants everything to stay the same so it doesn't accept any changes to WHAT WAS. 
Ni wants the one and only view of the future so it doesn't accepts any changes to THE PLAN. 
Add Fi to the list, with it's individualistic values and you get a total outsider that wants to create its own little space in the world, without interruptions from other people.


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## BlueViolet (Dec 14, 2019)

Scoobyscoob said:


> _&grumble grumble&_ I spent how many years to get to the point where I could conduct a study like this, and your only takeaway is my conclusion? &_grumble grumble& _


I just don't like to be verbose. _shrugs. smiley face._



Scoobyscoob said:


> When someone with HF autism or Asperger's realizes that having a romantic partner is worlds better than being alone, even if there are some struggles with a relationship, they dive straight into how to be around people with their characteristic single minded focus.


Hormones are a powerful force for change.



Scoobyscoob said:


> ...go around telling all of their classmates and spread lies about how vaccines cause autism.


People panic. 



Aluminum Frost said:


> Saying neither is not an answer.


Then I have a question for you. What causes Covid-19? Bacteria or fungus? What? Did you just say "neither?" Oh, that's not an answer.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

AllOne said:


> I just don't like to be verbose. _shrugs. smiley face._


Cool, well if you do end up doing any research on autism, it'd be wise to distinguish pathology for each person. Group A (HF), Group B (Aspie), Group C (control), etc



AllOne said:


> Hormones are a powerful force for change.


Hormones alone would be insufficient. At least over say, a lifetime together.



AllOne said:


> People panic.


Actually, the anti-vaxxer movement was started by a British doctor actively engaging in fraud to sell his own treatments. You should look into the history of the anti-vaxxer movement. Quackery and pseudoscience is often times to profit from the bad science, and not to advance actual good science.


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

Scoobyscoob said:


> Actually, the anti-vaxxer movement was started by a British doctor actively engaging in fraud to sell his own treatments. You should look into the history of the anti-vaxxer movement. Quackery and pseudoscience is often times to profit from the bad science, and not to advance actual good science.


I don't think it was started by any one person because for instance there were already a lot of pre-existing religious beliefs out here which rejected modern medicine even before vaccines came out. Even today, there is a high crossover between fundamentalist followers of religion and anti-vaxxers. But yes whenever there is a large group of potential suckers, there is likely going to be someone who sees the business opportunity...

As for the link specifically between certain vaccines and autism, there seems to be a sizable "pro-science" crowd that treats science more like a dogma or political belief than as a mindset ("actual" science). There has been a decent amount of actual research out there which would make any reasonable mind question the risks of aluminum adjutants and if you are saying that you have completely ruled out the link of any vaccines to autism you are probably jumping the gun. There was old, fraudulent research done on other vaccines which tried to demonstrate a link to autism which has been very much debunked but it's irrelevant to an up-to-date discussion on the risks. But anyway this begs the question of if a few extra people out of millions get autism or other conditions as a result of vaccines, is it worth it to keep vaccinating people? Of course. The opportunity cost of vaccinating is certainly worth the ability to essentially eradicate diseases and prevent them from ever being a problem and if anything research showing the risks can help us develop better vaccines with less risks. Kind of reminds me of the anti-vapers who try to seize on some vape juice having harmful ingredients instead of just banning those specific ingredients...


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

Aluminum Frost said:


> They tend to do better on IQ tests because their brains are better at problem-solving. Being highly systematized and all. And IQ tests are heavily reliant on pattern-recognition. They're higher in openness because they're eccentric and neuro-divergent. But they also love routine and are uncomfortable with change which points to lower openness. They're highly J which also correlates with lower openness. They don't notice things like body language, tone of voice, etc. Idk if this is more S or N.


It's due autism, not MBTI.
I'm very inclined to think "NO!" because MBTI is never a cause to these problems, MBTI is merely correlation and preferences.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

Ocean Helm said:


> I don't think it was started by any one person because for instance there were already a lot of pre-existing religious beliefs out here which rejected modern medicine even before vaccines came out. Even today, there is a high crossover between fundamentalist followers of religion and anti-vaxxers. But yes whenever there is a large group of potential suckers, there is likely going to be someone who sees the business opportunity...
> 
> As for the link specifically between certain vaccines and autism, there seems to be a sizable "pro-science" crowd that treats science more like a dogma or political belief than as a mindset ("actual" science). There has been a decent amount of actual research out there which would make any reasonable mind question the risks of aluminum adjutants and if you are saying that you have completely ruled out the link of any vaccines to autism you are probably jumping the gun. There was old, fraudulent research done on other vaccines which tried to demonstrate a link to autism which has been very much debunked but it's irrelevant to an up-to-date discussion on the risks. But anyway this begs the question of if a few extra people out of millions get autism or other conditions as a result of vaccines, is it worth it to keep vaccinating people? Of course. The opportunity cost of vaccinating is certainly worth the ability to essentially eradicate diseases and prevent them from ever being a problem and if anything research showing the risks can help us develop better vaccines with less risks. Kind of reminds me of the anti-vapers who try to seize on some vape juice having harmful ingredients instead of just banning those specific ingredients...


I was referring to the modern anti-vaxxer movement. It may have caught on in some isolated religious communities, but its origins were pretty much to turn a profit on quackery.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

pwowq said:


> It's due autism, not MBTI.
> I'm very inclined to think "NO!" because MBTI is never a cause to these problems, MBTI is merely correlation and preferences.


I'm asking for the correlation. Not saying it's the cause


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

AllOne said:


> I just don't like to be verbose. _shrugs. smiley face._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know or care and I didn't say N or S cause autism. I asked which correlates better with it. You people are so defensive


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I tend to think Autism is more of an "Autism Thing." There are some tendencies that may look like N or S, but I don't know which comes first.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I tend to think Autism is more of an "Autism Thing." There are some tendencies that may look like N or S, but I don't know which comes first.


Is OCD more of a P thing or more of a J thing?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Aluminum Frost said:


> Is OCD more of a P thing or more of a J thing?


Why would it not be more of an OCD thing? I suspect that a lot of these psychological/neurological conditions are survival strategies that may have once been useful, but are now simply leftover mutations and adaptations that are no longer providing a competitive advantage. Survival is far more assured today than it was hundreds and thousands of years ago. Some of our evolutionary quirks have not managed to keep up with that fact.

Being super aware and detail oriented probably saved lives at one point in human development. My own ADHD diagnosis has been analogized out the wazoo (there's that whole "Hunter vs. Farmer" thing).

I think it is easy to say certain conditions mimic cognitive functions and temperaments, but is that a result of the condition, or the person behind it? How do we distinguish between the two? I am uncertain how to make that distinction. Do you have any thoughts on the matter? 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...darwinian-roots-obsessive-compulsive-disorder








Is Our Survival Instinct Failing Us?


Does the "fight or flight" response work in today's complex world?




www.psychologytoday.com













Autism, OCD and Attention Deficit May Share Brain Markers


All three illnesses linked to glitches in nerve bundle linking brain hemispheres




www.scientificamerican.com













The ADHD Personality: A Normal and Valuable Human Variation


For good evolutionary reasons, some people are highly impulsive.




www.psychologytoday.com













Autism and Evolution


Genomic regions that set humans apart from other primates carry many autism-linked mutations




hms.harvard.edu


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Why would it not be more of an OCD thing? I suspect that a lot of these psychological/neurological conditions are survival strategies that may have once been useful, but are now simply leftover mutations and adaptations that are no longer providing a competitive advantage. Survival is far more assured today than it was hundreds and thousands of years ago. Some of our evolutionary quirks have not managed to keep up with that fact.
> 
> Being super aware and detail oriented probably saved lives at one point in human development. My own ADHD diagnosis has been analogized out the wazoo (there's that whole "Hunter vs. Farmer" thing).
> 
> ...


Because it necissitates high conscientiousness which is J. Alright, so now I know you're being politically correct rather than truthful


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## secondpassing (Jan 13, 2018)

Aluminum Frost said:


> Because it necissitates high conscientiousness which is J. Alright, so now I know you're being politically correct rather than truthful


Yeah I would think people with OCD would probably type as xSTJ. I could see someone being a P, but then their OCD is likely a mild case.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Aluminum Frost said:


> Because it necissitates high conscientiousness which is J. Alright, so now I know you're being politically correct rather than truthful


Are you really trying to insult me? I simply wonder whether this is one of those "...Chicken and egg" thing and whether it is a misfiring evolutionary mutation? How is this in any way "politically correct"?


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

I think OCD could be linked to IxxJ in theory, but I would be the first to tell you that I don't know enough about OCD to be qualified to have an opinion on the matter. I know enough about autism to have an idea of the range that occurs within people that have it though.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Are you really trying to insult me? I simply wonder whether this is one of those "...Chicken and egg" thing and whether it is a misfiring evolutionary mutation? How is this in any way "politically correct"?


There is no chicken and egg thing, behavior is behavior, it's one component. Politically correct as in disorders are bad so you're trying not to attribute it to either N or S.


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## BlueViolet (Dec 14, 2019)

Aluminum Frost said:


> I don't know or care and I didn't say N or S cause autism. I asked which correlates better with it. You people are so defensive


Answer: Neither N nor S is the correct choice. I don't understand what is defensive about my answer. What am I defending?


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

chad86tsi said:


> I've never called a monk autistic.
> 
> A monk can choose to be a bus driver or a dental assistant, but an autistic person can't choose to be naturally good at reading peoples non-verbal communication, or to naturally understand other peoples motives. It's frustrating being autistic, and it's not a choice. Those skills can be developed with enough therapy and a lot of work, but it's best done with diagnostic assessment to determine the best course of action. It takes years and years of work for some, and for others it never does work well.


If you figure out how to read people's facial expressions, please explain it to me. I can tell if someone is very happy, or very sad but anything else in between is a real blur. I've relied on tone of voice and that kind of works until someone is sick. 

ADHD and possibly ASD is fun too because I've ended up in situations like sleeping on the couch because my ADHD couldn't make the bed, but the (possible?) ASD side wouldn't sleep in a bed without sheets. 




> I suppose a person can be born pre-disposed to be a monk, but being gay or a-sexual and introverted doesn't get in the way of basic social functions needed to be successful in society. Being born autistic means being born pre-disposed to significant social, communication, and behavioral challenges < stuff that gets in the way of navigating life in society.


No no I'm sure my 8 year old self just decided to have selective mutism and severe social anxiety and I just don't open the door if it's unexpected out of being quirky and can't talk to more than 5 people at once without alcohol and refuse to go into stores with bad lighting out of being quirky. Also I lose my phone in the freezer for fun. Oh and probably just haven't "tried hard enough" to overcome not understanding time or sitting still in a chair. 

(Sarcasm) 



> If you were born on the spectrum and you want to be a monk, you have my permission. No need to dismantle medical system and deny people access to diagnostic wisdom and treatments/therapies proven effective by saying it isn't a thing and that it doesn't need treatment/therapy in some cases. I've personally witnessed treatments and therapies greatly improve the functioning of autistic people, and that made them far happier and more successful and able to pursue their passions and desires. If they choose to be monk's, I won't stop them.


Cognitive behavioural therapy helped with ADHD more than years of people telling me to "just pay attention" or "don't drink caffeine and it'll be fine" or "sit still" or "just leave early enough to not be late (lol I can leave 3 hours early and still be late so maybe that's not the issue) or "don't drug yourself" (turns out, I prefer being medicated and more functional how weird) ever did.



But yeah the person you were arguing with apparently came along and got it all right and we are completely fine. Cool cool


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## chad86tsi (Dec 27, 2016)

daleks_exterminate said:


> If you figure out how to read people's facial expressions, please explain it to me. I can tell if someone is very happy, or very sad but anything else in between is a real blur. I've relied on tone of voice and that kind of works until someone is sick.


All 3 of the aspies I'm close to have had to memorize the patterns, or to just not act on the input or make guess' (that often turn out wrong/badly). 



> ADHD and possibly ASD is fun too because I've ended up in situations like sleeping on the couch because my ADHD couldn't make the bed, but the (possible?) ASD side wouldn't sleep in a bed without sheets.


2 of the 3 I know well have ADHD, it's hard to differentiate in many situations. "Am I looking at a symptom, or the cause?". Sometimes both are happening at the same time, and some strategies for one are counter for for the other.

The one that doesn't have ADHD is less widely impacted by ASD. His primary issues are mood regulation (blowing up), and not getting lost in OCD land. He also has extremely high IQ, so his brain is always looking for input and doesn't do well with boredom : so he dives into whatever his interests-of-the-day are. Channel that for good and amazing things are possible. Left to it's own devices, it can be a horrible thing. It's not quite as self destructive as ADHD can be, but can still be life impacting when it's time to focus on other matters.




> No no I'm sure my 8 year old self just decided to have selective mutism and severe social anxiety and I just don't open the door if it's unexpected out of being quirky and can't talk to more than 5 people at once without alcohol and refuse to go into stores with bad lighting out of being quirky. Also I lose my phone in the freezer for fun. Oh and probably just haven't "tried hard enough" to overcome not understanding time or sitting still in a chair.
> 
> (Sarcasm)


The non-ADHD aspie I know had selective mutism too, but it was at the age of early language development, or while under duress as an early grade schooler. He's past it now, or at least undetectable. At a point where you still have explosive reactions to duress, sometimes mutism is a good way to protect important relationships from harm.




> Cognitive behavioural therapy helped with ADHD more than years of people telling me to "just pay attention" or "don't drink caffeine and it'll be fine" or "sit still" or "just leave early enough to not be late (lol I can leave 3 hours early and still be late so maybe that's not the issue) or "don't drug yourself" (turns out, I prefer being medicated and more functional how weird) ever did.


CBT was a life saver, helped connect explicit emotions and feelings that the rest of the world uses in communication when trying to help understand and connect what they were experiencing and feeling and unable to process. Pretty much anyone can benefit from CTB, for many on the spectrum it's likely the most efficient and effective way to get them the help they need to grow and develop strategies to cope, to relate to others, and to see opportunities to not live in chaos with every emotion.



> But yeah the person you were arguing with apparently came along and got it all right and we are completely fine. Cool cool


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## Crowbo (Jul 9, 2017)

It's neither. That's why it's called a spectrum.


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## PierViers (Jul 19, 2021)

It has nothing to do with autism.


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## aspiegurl (5 mo ago)

Reginer said:


> I am genuinely curious if someone knows of an extroverted case of autism. Maybe that(E vs I) is something which has more correlation with this.


My e-friend with a little brother who's 2 and autistic says he's Extroverted and that she knows autistic Extroverts, so more than her little brother. My e-friend's in the old Asperger's part of the spectrum, like me. They think her other little brother, who's 7, could be autistic or bipolar. They seem ESFP (2) and ESTP (7), to her. She's an INFP, btw.


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