# Are you sexually dominant or submissive



## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

I tend to be dominant, but can be happy either way. You folks?


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## INFJGirlie (Jun 12, 2010)

Nate I have noticed you start a lot of sex threads...just an observation. :wink: BTW I like to be dominated but I do sometimes like to dominate.


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## amanda32 (Jul 23, 2009)

If I just told you, well...where's the fun in that?


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## mrkedi (Nov 19, 2009)

if there is a opprtunity, i will prefer taking turns.
then again even if im the dominant one i dont think im those super aggressive "blood dripping" kind, i would more of a tease.


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## Calvaire (Nov 14, 2009)

Submissive.
I for one LOVE and Enjoy being dominated.


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## SenhorFrio (Apr 29, 2010)

i'm kinda glad you made this thread it a good topic. well i really am in the middle-i wouldn't want to sorta"have sex as equals"like someone has to be dom and someone has to sub and i'd prefer we decide who does what ahead of time!


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## joyrjw (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm both... it depends on the situation and the person.


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## reyesaaronringo (Dec 27, 2009)

i perfer to be dominant. my personality i guess


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Submissive, but with a preference for other submissives. 
Figure that out.


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## mrscientist (Jul 4, 2010)

Neither. I don't care about it.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

INFJGirlie said:


> Nate I have noticed you start a lot of sex threads...just an observation. :wink: BTW I like to be dominated but I do sometimes like to dominate.


he's compiling dossiers for the government, he needs a lot of raw data


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

I would probably be more submissive than dominant, personally, but somewhere in the middle.


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## Arioche (Aug 5, 2009)

Physically, I switch around; it really depends on my partner (everything from their preference, personality, and gender.) When the right circumstances are met, they're both enjoyable. 

But psychologically, I have to be in control. Even when I'm playing a Sub role, I mostly enjoy it _because_ I know that they can only have this power exchange when I allow it. The fact that I can stop it anytime, and that I have control over them enough to make them act in such way is how I get my kicks. This is why my partner must absolutely know that this permission-based exchange is happening; it might just be my Type 8'ness, but it's a complete turn off when my partner doesn't know, and think he is ultimately in control/I am more sexually dependent on him.


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## Hemoglobin (May 13, 2010)

I'm a switch physically. In a relationship though I do prefer to be submissive, but will be dominant when the situation calls for it.


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## conformità (Mar 14, 2010)

submissive mostly but then i could be dominant at times.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

INFJGirlie said:


> Nate I have noticed you start a lot of sex threads...just an observation. :wink: BTW I like to be dominated but I do sometimes like to dominate.


Yeah, it's kinda one of the things that I'm known for on this forum.



Haplea The Mighty said:


> he's compiling dossiers for the government, he needs a lot of raw data


Yep, you totally figured me out.


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## rowingineden (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm a little more dominant, but I'm a quite a bit of a switch, it seems, though so far I've only been with girls who wanted me to be the dominant one, so I've only gotten to play that role. *disappointment*


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## rowingineden (Jun 23, 2010)

Haplea The Mighty said:


> he's compiling dossiers for the government, he needs a lot of raw data


He likes his data RAW. :tongue:


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## SaraBell (Jun 3, 2010)

Submissive with men, dominant with women


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Almost entirely submissive.


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## Valdyr (May 25, 2010)

Arioche said:


> Physically, I switch around; it really depends on my partner (everything from their preference, personality, and gender.) When the right circumstances are met, they're both enjoyable.
> 
> But psychologically, I have to be in control. Even when I'm playing a Sub role, I mostly enjoy it _because_ I know that they can only have this power exchange when I allow it. The fact that I can stop it anytime, and that I have control over them enough to make them act in such way is how I get my kicks. This is why my partner must absolutely know that this permission-based exchange is happening; it might just be my Type 8'ness, but it's a complete turn off when my partner doesn't know, and think he is ultimately in control/I am more sexually dependent on him.


This applies with me as well. Physically, I would likely actually get bored of being only dominant or submissive, so I do both. But I have to be psychologically in control. I have to be the master of the situation. If I'm being submissive, it's because *I'm letting the other person do it.*


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## Drewbie (Apr 28, 2010)

Dominant or neither. Mostly dominant though. :wink:


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I am submissive, but definitely not lazy. :happy: I really like a man who can take control and who isn't worried about hurting me.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> I am submissive, but definitely not lazy. :happy: I really like a man who can take control and who isn't worried about hurting me.


Really, that is surprising. I'd think that you'd be dominant. You seem to have a dominant personality. Also, you like to be hurt? What are you some type of massochist?


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> Really, that is surprising. I'd think that you'd be dominant. You seem to have a dominant personality. Also, you like to be hurt?


 No, I don't like physical pain. I just don't like a guy who worries instead of being present and in the moment.


> What are you some type of massochist?


Well I must be because I talk to you quite a bit. :tongue:


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## ENTrePenuer (Jun 12, 2010)

I can be either, I like planting the flag and pressing a girls nogging on the headboard and telling her to hold on.
I am at times interested in doing nasty things that a girl might feel is demeaning.
There's nothing hotter than a girl cleaning her cum of my pole with her mouth.
I like coming on a girls face but usually for giggles not to be an asshole.

But I like a girl riding her way to the finish line just as much and don't mind having a girl sit on my face.

I guess I'm just a freak all around


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> No, I don't like physical pain. I just don't like a guy who worries instead of being present and in the moment.Well I must be because I talk to you quite a bit. :tongue:


Present and in the moment huh? Plus not caring if they hurt you? Hmm....You need an ISTP or ESTP. Yes, you need to fuck an ESTP. You + an ESTP= perfect couple. 

Also, it's not cool to say that you get PO'ed by chatting with me. You conversations that you feed me are way more difficult to take in than the ones that I feed you.:wink:


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## ENTrePenuer (Jun 12, 2010)

NatetheGreat said:


> Present and in the moment huh? Plus not caring if they hurt you? Hmm....You need an ISTP, an ESTP, or best of all for you.......an ENTP! Yes, you need to fuck an ENTP. You + an ENTP= perfect couple.


um no.
ESTP would be the best for what she asks.
He'll use her as a masturbation aid :crazy:

Which is fine if that's what she likes.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> Present and in the moment huh? Plus not caring if they hurt you?


Nate please stop putting words in my mouth just so I can conform to some sort of idea about what sex is or what women are in your mind. I've never said I wanted to be physically hurt.

Sheesh, usually your paradigm shifts happen a little bit faster, Nate. They're usually awesome to witness. Open up Nate. Let it go to let it in. Allow it to happen.


> Hmm....You need an ISTP or ESTP. Yes, you need to fuck an ESTP. You + an ESTP= perfect couple.


 Oy. Make up your mind. You edited this. Anyway I've experienced incredible mutual physical attraction in addition to intense love with both an ENTP and an ISTP ex.The incredible physical attraction I think was a large part of what allowed for amazing sex.

And so what if I wish to use my partner's body to masturbate? It still beats my hand any day. 



> Also, it's not cool to say that you get PO'ed by chatting with me.


I didn't say that I was POd talking to you. I don't know if you really even have the power to piss me off since I really don't know you that well. But I can get frustrated and for that, I can be considered a masochist. Because I won't give up on you.Btw, I was talking about post correspondence.


> You conversations that you feed me are way more difficult to take in than the ones that I feed you.:wink:


 Oh dude, I know right? This is prolly why ENFPs are not for me. Bunch of high maitenance freaks.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Double Post. Dammit Blackberries suck at this


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm a switch. I also prefer to be submissive, but I do get wild hairs once in a while.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Double Post


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## Humilis Curator (Feb 26, 2010)

Dom, sub is boring and takes the fun out of it for me. I don't even like long blow jobs because I get bored, I like being in control and setting the pace. I don't even like my girl to be completely submissive, I like to be challenged and fought against.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

Dominant, that prefers a dominant partner (which is a good thing because that's what I've got).

We _are_ a little curious about what would happen if we found a submissive girl and threw her into the mix though...


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## Iraneken (Aug 17, 2010)

Submissive as i'm inexperienced and the woman im seeing is not so its a confidence thing for the time being


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## Skum (Jun 27, 2010)

I don't know why someone would say submissiveness necessarily means laziness. It doesn't. Just be enthusiastic about it, I don't understand what's lazy about it at all. Sub or not, lazy is lazy is boring is bad. 

As for myself, not sure as of yet. Not sure of my partner either. I think we both lean toward the sub side but I'd be more than fine with switching.


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## Voici Claire (Aug 10, 2010)

dominant. i say when sex is happening because i have control over myself when it comes to sexual matters. that puts me in control. think of it this way, your partner is extremely horny all the time, trying to kiss you, grope you. you reject, reject, then because they have no control when you finally let them kiss you, grope you, you're in charge. even if they're initiating it, you're still the dominant one. 

as far as being on top etc goes, i like for her to be on top with everything (this includes her receiving oral from me). if i get bored i go on top because i'm in control. and that's what being dominant means to me.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

*Nate please stop putting words in my mouth just so I can conform to some sort of idea about what sex is or what women are in your mind. I've never said I wanted to be physically hurt.*

I guess that that you are just different from the norm that is all. 99% of the women that I know hate to be face fucked, they say that it makes them gag. A lot of women aren't really into anal either. Really, this helped me to understand you quite significantly, knowing that you are into these things. Most of the women that I have talked to tell me that they prefer like a 7 maybe an 8 inch dick, if they could choose. Hell, many won't even fuck a guy with a really small one. However you have publicly announced several times that penis size really doesn't mean much to you. I understand that now. There's no way, you could take a huge 10 inch or so horse dick up the ass without being hurt. Oh, and you damn sure couldn't face fuck with the dude; you'd choke without a doubt; I don't care how much you've "trained" your gag reflex.

*Sheesh, usually your paradigm shifts happen a little bit faster, Nate. They're usually awesome to witness. Open up Nate. Let it go to let it in. Allow it to happen.
Oy. Make up your mind. You edited this. Anyway I've experienced incredible mutual physical attraction in addition to intense love with both an ENTP and an ISTP ex.The incredible physical attraction I think was a large part of what allowed for amazing sex.*

[B*]And so what if I wish to use my partner's body to masturbate? It still beats my hand any day. *

Yeah, using your partner's body to masturbate is fine. It's your decision, have sex like you want to. Letting go and face fucking a girl would be quite hard for me by the way. Also yeah, find yourself an ENTP, ISTP, or ESTP; you'd love em all. Stay away from the SF's and especially the NF's for God's sake!


*I didn't say that I was POd talking to you. I don't know if you really even have the power to piss me off since I really don't know you that well. But I can get frustrated and for that, I can be considered a masochist. Because I won't give up on you.Btw, I was talking about post correspondence. Oh dude, I know right? This is prolly why ENFPs are not for me. Bunch of high maitenance freaks.

*

What do you mean post correspondence? Also, I don't mind talking to you, in fact I like it very much so. Keep the PM's coming. I enjoy venting our pains, emotions, and fallbacks with one another. You and I are a lot alike and I learn more about myself by talking to you. In addition, what do you mean, "You won't give up on me?" You need to clarify. I don't know if I would consider myself, "High maintenance", but most of the females that I find myself attracted to I would consider "high maintenance".


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> Stay away from the SF's and especially the NF's for God's sake!


 My most recent ex was an ESFJ. He withheld. But I don't know if that has anything to do with his cognitive functions.

And what's this with you barricading me from all NFs now? Did you read Humi's post up there? It seems like he could handle a good hate shank every now and then.




NatetheGreat said:


> What do you mean post correspondence? Also, I don't mind talking to you, in fact I like it very much so. Keep the PM's coming. I enjoy venting our pains, emotions, and fallbacks with one another. You and I are a lot alike and I learn more about myself by talking to you. In addition, what do you mean, "You won't give up on me?" You need to clarify. *I don't know if I would consider myself, "High maintenance"*, but most of the females that I find myself attracted to I would consider "high maintenance".


Bwahahahaha!


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## Miss Scarlet (Jul 26, 2010)

Dominant only. I would only every maybe be submissive to a woman. And that's a big maybe.


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

I doubt submissives would :crazy:


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## cbelle (Oct 30, 2009)

I like what sofort said about dom-dom relationships being more of a campaign.

That sounds like fun! Not that I'm not willing to be flexible. As I like to play rival, I would love being "forced" into submission, and/or "taking advantage" of my man. Honestly, it's all good to me, and the more excitement the better!!


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Slider said:


> Submissive men just want women to f*ck them in the a** with a strapon.


Why? What do you think of dominant women?


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

cbelle said:


> I like what sofort said about dom-dom relationships being more of a campaign.
> 
> That sounds like fun! Not that I'm not willing to be flexible. As I like to play rival, *I would love being "forced" into submission, and/or "taking advantage" of my man*. Honestly, it's all good to me, and the more excitement the better!!


Now we're talking roud:


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

cbelle said:


> and/or "taking advantage" of my man.


Nothing quite like being woke up in the middle of the night and finding you have a woman on you.

Y'all are little. I think it makes you sneaky...


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

I agree sofort99,good point.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> Nothing quite like being woke up in the middle of the night and finding you have a woman on you.
> 
> Y'all are little. I think it makes you sneaky...


If someone is having sex with you when you are asleep, that is rape, and I certainly wouldn't want to wake up in the middle of the night with someone on me like that.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> If someone is having sex with you when you are asleep, that is rape, and I certainly wouldn't want to wake up in the middle of the night with someone on me like that.


Technically, any time anyone touches you at all without your exlicit consent they are commiting battery. If your wife walks up behind you and kisses your neck, are you turning her in to the police?

That said, my wife, of over 20 years, has my concent to try and jump my bones any time she damn well feels like it and thinks she can whether I'm awake, asleep, drunk, or whatever.

I'd actually sort of be a little sad for anyone that didn't have as partner they trusted that much...


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> Technically, any time anyone touches you at all without your exlicit consent they are commiting battery. If your wife walks up behind you and kisses your neck, are you turning her in to the police?


I think having sex with someone without their consent is going to be much worse than that, isn't it?



> That said, my wife, of over 20 years, has my concent to try and jump my bones any time she damn well feels like it and thinks she can whether I'm awake, asleep, drunk, or whatever.


Exactly, she has your consent. 



> I'd actually sort of be a little sad for anyone that didn't have as partner they trusted that much...


Whilst I agree, I doubt many people have been married for over 20 years.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> Whilst I agree, I doubt many people have been married for over 20 years.


Actually, this chart and the corresponding statistics says otherwise, follow the link. It seems that singletons frequently underestimate the longevity of marriage.

Ignore the dumb family research council statements, I pay them no heed, but they do correctly provide references to the US census bureau.



You are derailing you sly dog Skycloud you!! Admit it, you're incredibly dominant; coming in here and laying down the law like that.


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> If someone is having sex with you when you are asleep, that is rape, and I certainly wouldn't want to wake up in the middle of the night with someone on me like that.


If it was my other half, she has permission to do whatever she likes. Of course I'll reciprocate in kind.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Codger said:


> If it was my other half, she has permission to do whatever she likes. Of course I'll reciprocate in kind.


So, I assume she has given you permission to do so, just like she has your permission?


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> So, I assume she has given you permission to do so, just like she has your permission?


Explicit? Of course not. I can't even imagine why it would be needed.

Then again, I am having such a hard time understanding why a man would be bent out of shape to wake up to his woman on him. I just have no frame of reference to make this make sense to me. Except maybe if she didn't wake me up at all, and that would just be becaused I missed it...


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> Explicit? Of course not. I can't even imagine why it would be needed.
> 
> Then again, I am having such a hard time understanding why a man would be bent out of shape to wake up to his woman on him. I just have no frame of reference to make this make sense to me. Except maybe if she didn't wake me up at all, and that would just be becaused I missed it...


Why are you having such a hard time understanding that? Not all men are sex obsessed and not all men are such nymphomaniacs that they would be happy to wake up and fine their partner having sex with them.


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> So, I assume she has given you permission to do so, just like she has your permission?


.. well for her sake I'd hope she does.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Why are you having such a hard time understanding that? Not all men are sex obsessed and not all men are such nymphomaniacs that they would be happy to wake up and fine their partner having sex with them.


Huh. Really?

I'm not sure what to think about that.

... I wish there were more of you, so there would have been more women left for me..?


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Codger said:


> .. well for her sake I'd hope she does.


Does what? Have your permission?


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> Huh. Really?
> 
> I'm not sure what to think about that.
> 
> ... I wish there were more of you, so there would have been more women left for me..?


I thought you were married?


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Does what? Have your permission?


All my partners already have that roud:


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

I meant back when I was single. I should have made that clear.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> I meant back when I was single. I should have made that clear.


I'm assuming that the women who maybe be attracted to you and the women who may be attracted to me are probably very different women anyway.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> If someone is having sex with you when you are asleep, that is rape, and I certainly wouldn't want to wake up in the middle of the night with someone on me like that.


Actually it's called sexual abuse. 

However, I have no problem waking my guy up with a blow job. I like to tell my guy I'm his "little alarm". But I do it only because I know my man likes it and loves to be "surprised" that way.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> I'm assuming that the women who maybe be attracted to you and the women who may be attracted to me are probably very different women anyway.


I wouldn't bet on that at all. The details come into sorting out who's compatible later.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Actually it's called sexual abuse.


It certainly could be. I'd definitely make sure it was something my partner would appreciate before I did it.

But even then, I have a hard time believing many men would mind. Still... you need to know who you are sleeping with.


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

There's only one kind of dude that doesn't enjoy waking up to finding themselves being sexually exploited ... dead ones.


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## cbelle (Oct 30, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> However, I have no problem waking my guy up with a blow job. I like to tell my guy I'm his "little alarm". But I do it only because I know my man likes it and loves to be "surprised" that way.


When I get my own man I'm going to try that. It totally sounds like something I would do.

Oh the possibilities are endless!!!!

I need to keep a list of my near 1000's of ideas for sex. Although I know I'll get 1000's more new ones once I hop into the bed!! Hmm... which one next!! Which one will make him jump most??? Mwahaha.


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## cbelle (Oct 30, 2009)

Oh, by the way, is it true that most men don't make very much noise during sex? The thought is a little disappointing. I start making noises/breathing hard just thinking about sleeping with someone, honestly. Unless there are people nearby, that is. (Am I perverted?? )


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

cbelle said:


> When I get my own man I'm going to try that. It totally sounds like something I would do.
> 
> Oh the possibilities are endless!!!!
> 
> I need to keep a list of my near 1000's of ideas for sex. Although I know I'll get 1000's more new ones once I hop into the bed!! Hmm... which one next!! Which one will make him jump most??? Mwahaha.


Finger up the arse presumably ... well it made me leap out of bed and almost hit the ceiling.



cbelle said:


> Oh, by the way, is it true that most men don't make very much noise during sex? The thought is a little disappointing. I start making noises/breathing hard just thinking about sleeping with someone, honestly. Unless there are people nearby, that is. (Am I perverted?? )


You say perverted like it's a bad thing. Personally I make a lot of noise, but that's pretty much because I'm usually talking pure filth constantly ... in bed, or not.


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## cbelle (Oct 30, 2009)

I'm not talking about talking filth. That's not a turn on.


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

cbelle said:


> I'm not talking about talking filth. That's not a turn on.


Depends on what we define as filth, but in my case I'm verbally 3 steps ahead of what I'm actually doing. If I'm going to manhandle a woman, a lot of them seem to enjoy knowing it's coming.


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## cbelle (Oct 30, 2009)

I like being surprised. I prefer taking it as it comes.


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

cbelle said:


> I like being surprised. I prefer taking it as it comes.


Don't blame you. For whatever reason I've found my partners prefer to know that they're about to be forced into whatever I want, heightens the anticipation apparently.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

cbelle said:


> When I get my own man I'm going to try that. It totally sounds like something I would do.
> 
> Oh the possibilities are endless!!!!
> 
> I need to keep a list of my near 1000's of ideas for sex. Although I know I'll get 1000's more new ones once I hop into the bed!! Hmm... which one next!! Which one will make him jump most??? Mwahaha.


Good for you!

Just remember, the most importaint part of it all is learning to have open, honest talks with each other about what you want.

If you can't talk about it to each other, you have no business trying to do it to each other.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> Actually it's called sexual abuse.
> 
> However, I have no problem waking my guy up with a blow job. I like to tell my guy I'm his "little alarm". But I do it only because I know my man likes it and loves to be "surprised" that way.


As long as he likes it, and make sure he does, otherwise he might have you arrested.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> It certainly could be. I'd definitely make sure it was something my partner would appreciate before I did it.
> 
> But even then, I have a hard time believing many men would mind. Still... you need to know who you are sleeping with.


Wow, you seem so worried by society's demands on men, don't you? That's the only reason you say you have a hard time understanding it, because you don't want to accept that not all men fit the moulf society tries to force them into.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Codger said:


> There's only one kind of dude that doesn't enjoy waking up to finding themselves being sexually exploited ... dead ones.


Why? Not all men are the same, and not all men would appreciate being sexually exploited? I assume you must not think that any sexual assault can be committed against a man, because he as a man obviously wanted it?

You are as bad as the people who think a woman is to blame when she is raped.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

cbelle said:


> When I get my own man I'm going to try that. It totally sounds like something I would do.
> 
> Oh the possibilities are endless!!!!
> 
> I need to keep a list of my near 1000's of ideas for sex. Although I know I'll get 1000's more new ones once I hop into the bed!! Hmm... which one next!! Which one will make him jump most??? Mwahaha.


Ask him first if he is OK with it. I know some of the men here aren't much more than Neanderthals, but many men aren't like that and in fact, many men may consider it to be sexual assault or even rape.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> Good for you!
> 
> Just remember, the most importaint part of it all is learning to have open, honest talks with each other about what you want.
> 
> If you can't talk about it to each other, you have no business trying to do it to each other.


Can't argue with that. Now, can you see how that goes with what I've been saying? You can't understand that some men may not like what you like, yet you do understand is that couples should have open, honest talks with each other about what they want.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> As long as he likes it, and make sure he does, otherwise he might have you arrested.


Skycloud, the reason why I give your original statement credibility is because of the many other ways in which people don't understand what non-consensual also contains:

If partner is asleep
If partner is under the influence
Submission (if person is in fear) in non consensual

Doesn't matter how many times you've done it with that same person before. You are right, rape can happen any time and it often does.

But I think, before we look at the extremes look at what it means in the examples from previous posts. It doesn't sound non-consensual in these men's cases. Especially since they weren't throwing their partner off and taking tons of showers to get the "dirt" off of them. Sounds like the partners are aware of each other's likes and dislikes. It wasn't about forcible rape which is about power and control and taking someone's power away from them.

Here is an example that I have in my previous marriage. THIS WAS NOT CONSENSUAL.

My ex and I were having many problems in the relationship. It was breaking down. My ex had undiagnosed PTSD at the time. 9/11 flared things up so badly, he would rage at the t.v., become physically violent with my daughter and me and quit his job for no reason.

The stress caused me to go on stupid sleeping pills for a short period of time. Ambien was culprit. If I took the medicine, I would forget the rest of the evening right after. I even would chop the pill in half. But still, it led to black outs. My husband would tell me I became like a soft quiet doll. A couple of times he had even let me know that we had sex because he found me so compliant. 

One day, after horrible fighting earlier in the day, I had taken my medication to sleep. I looked at my husband who had been terrible to me and raging at me that day and said, "Please do not have sex with me after I take this medicine under any circumstances. I would like to be in control of it. I would like to trust you."

The next morning I woke up and my husband was smiling and whistling Dixie getting ready. I felt different. I asked him "Did you have sex with me last night?" He said, "Of course". And went back to whistling.

This ^^ is not consensual sex. I was quite clear about my boundaries.

However, me sitting on my man in middle of night, or my partner going down on me to wake me up is not the same thing _because we like it._

I also know women who do not like to be woken up in the middle of the night with their partner having sex with them. So that wouldn't be consensual.

However, I am pretty clear with my mate: "wake me up anytime you'd like baby". That's a great reason to wake me up. :wink:

Sigh* It's all about communication.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Wow, you seem so worried by society's demands on men, don't you? That's the only reason you say you have a hard time understanding it, because you don't want to accept that not all men fit the moulf society tries to force them into.


I'm not really to concerned with "society's demands on men" really.

My position in this is really more frame of reference.

It's like the women that have anorexia. I know it exists. I just can't understand it. How can you look like a skeleton, but look in the mirror and think you look fat? There just isn't a shared frame of reference I can identify with.

This subject seems to really bother you, but I don't understand why. I try to be as nonjudgmental as I can be about sex, and think you are perfectly free to go and have as much or as little of it as you want with your choice of consenting adults.

My only real care is that a very low sex drive can be indicative of underlying medical problems. So if you haven't I'd suggest you talk to your doctor about it. If he has given you a clean bill of health, go and don't have all the sex you want.

I'm just not going to understand.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> My own personal opinion - if you're drunk you cannot consent, and if you are sober you shouldn't be having sex with someone who is drunk, and that goes for men and women, seeing as both can rape and be raped. I would think legally, it would depend on whether the person felt that they had been raped and felt strongly enough about it to press charges.


So if a woman could legally press charges on you for having sex with you while she was drunk. Now does this only go for if you get her drunk just to fuck her, or does it also go for if you both get drunk and then decide to both spontaneously have sex.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> So if a woman could legally press charges on you for having sex with you while she was drunk. Now does this only go for if you get her drunk just to fuck her, or does it also go for if you both get drunk and then decide to both spontaneously have sex.


If you're both drunk, then noone could consent and it couldn't be rape because rape is about power and control. It would be a very different story if one was sober, though.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

NatetheGreat said:


> Yes, that is not consensual. However, I also know that sex with a drunken passed out woman is not consensual. I would like to ask a question though for legal purposes.....Is sex with a woman whom is drunk, but just not passed out considered consensual? I had one teacher in high school that told me that it wasn't. Could a woman file rape charges on you for that? If so, it seems like every dude that every walked the face of the earth could have rape charges filed on them.


It's worse than that.

There have been cases where women have had consensual sex with a man, felt bad about it days later, withdrew consent ex post facto, and had him arrested and tried for rape.

I don't know of any convictions, but the men have by that point been expelled from school, lost their jobs, their reputations, etc. Plus the cost of defending themselves.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> If you're both drunk, then noone could consent and it couldn't be rape because rape is about power and control. It would be a very different story if one was sober, though.


It could still be rape though. I mean, I've heard several stories of men forcing themselves on a girl when they were both drunk just because they wanted to get some. Also, why does everyone say that rape is all about power and control? Are people saying that men don't rape women just for the physical pleasure of sex?


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

NatetheGreat said:


> Damn woman chill out. This is sex not Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.



... it can be...


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> It's worse than that.
> 
> There have been cases where women have had consensual sex with a man, felt bad about it days later, withdrew consent ex post facto, and had him arrested and tried for rape.
> 
> I don't know of any convictions, but the men have by that point been expelled from school, lost their jobs, their reputations, etc. Plus the cost of defending themselves.


Women (and men because there's probably been some false rape charges made by men) should be charged with rape themselves and if convicted, sentenced to a sentence that a rapist would get. It ruins lives and makes it even harder for real rape victims to come forward.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

skycloud86 said:


> If you're both drunk, then noone could consent and it couldn't be rape because rape is about power and control. It would be a very different story if one was sober, though.


But that doesn't mean you couldn't take it to court. Really, it is in your best interest to not fuck someone who is drunk and gamble with whether or not they might take you to court. Regardless of whether you were drunk or not.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> It could still be rape though. I mean, I've heard several stories of men forcing themselves on a girl when they were both drunk just because they wanted to get some. Also, why does everyone say that rape is all about power and control? Are people saying that men don't rape women just for the physical pleasure of sex?


It could still be, yeah, and those men are rapists.

You would have to be severely mentally disturbed to see rape as a simple act of sexual pleasure.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> But that doesn't mean you couldn't take it to court. Really, it is in your best interest to not fuck someone who is drunk and gamble with whether or not they might take you to court. Regardless of whether you were drunk or not.


True, and this is what I would do in such a situation. If someone is drunk and you aren't, the best thing to do is to get them to a safe place to sleep off their drunkenness.


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## amanda32 (Jul 23, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> It could still be rape though. I mean, I've heard several stories of men forcing themselves on a girl when they were both drunk just because they wanted to get some. Also, why does everyone say that rape is all about power and control? Are people saying that men don't rape women just for the physical pleasure of sex?


I think rape is about power and control for serial rapists -- people hear this and they think it applies to all types of rape, but I don't think that's the case at all. Sometimes a guy just wants to get laid and he forces himself on a woman if the opportunity presents itself.
At least that's what I think.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

sofort99 said:


> It's worse than that.
> 
> There have been cases where women have had consensual sex with a man, felt bad about it days later, withdrew consent ex post facto, and had him arrested and tried for rape.
> 
> I don't know of any convictions, but the men have by that point been expelled from school, lost their jobs, their reputations, etc. Plus the cost of defending themselves.


I know, just look at the Kobe Bryant case.



skycloud86 said:


> Women (and men because there's probably been some false rape charges made by men) should be charged with rape themselves and if convicted, sentenced to a sentence that a rapist would get. It ruins lives and makes it even harder for real rape victims to come forward.


I've never known a grown man who was raped by a woman. I'm sure that it happens in real life though.



pinkrasputin said:


> But that doesn't mean you couldn't take it to court. Really, it is in your best interest to not fuck someone who is drunk and gamble with whether or not they might take you to court. Regardless of whether you were drunk or not.


This is why I don't fuck drunk girls, unless we have already fucked before. Then, I figure that they probably won't press charges against me.



skycloud86 said:


> It could still be, yeah, and those men are rapists.
> 
> You would have to be severely mentally disturbed to see rape as a simple act of sexual pleasure.


Yes, you would have to be mentally disturbed to see rape as a simple act of pleasure, but it happens.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> But that doesn't mean you couldn't take it to court. Really, it is in your best interest to not fuck someone who is drunk and gamble with whether or not they might take you to court. Regardless of whether you were drunk or not.
> 
> Here are some current guidelines:


I agree fully.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Here are some current guidelines:




> *I didn't resist physically. *
> People respond to an assault in different ways. Many victims make the good judgment that physical resistance would cause the attacker to become more violent. Lack of consent can be expressed (saying "no") or implied by the circumstances (if you were under the statutory age of consent, or had a mental deficiency, or were afraid to object due to threats of physical harm).
> 
> *I am/was in a relationship with my attacker.*
> ...


EDIT:Sorry for the edits. You guys were posting rather quickly and I wanted to make sure you caught this.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> I've never known a grown man who was raped by a woman. I'm sure that it happens in real life though.


It does. I think that the statistics usually say that 90% of rapes are committed against women, 9% against men and that something like 99% of rapists are men. This is just reported cases and I would add a few percent to the number of male rape victims, but the number of male rapists is probably accurate anyway.



> Yes, you would have to be mentally disturbed to see rape as a simple act of pleasure, but it happens.


Of course.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> It does. I think that the statistics usually say that 90% of rapes are committed against women, 9% against men and that something like 99% of rapists are men. This is just reported cases and I would add a few percent to the number of male rape victims, but the number of male rapists is probably accurate anyway.
> 
> Yeah, most men that I have known that were raped were raped by another man in prison.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> skycloud86 said:
> 
> 
> > It does. I think that the statistics usually say that 90% of rapes are committed against women, 9% against men and that something like 99% of rapists are men. This is just reported cases and I would add a few percent to the number of male rape victims, but the number of male rapists is probably accurate anyway.
> ...


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Sorry for more tangent, but I think it's important. Here are the laws in California:



> *Are the participants old enough to consent?*
> In the state of California, Unlawful Sexual Intercourse, commonly known at Statutory Rape, states the minimum age someone must be to have sex is 18. People below this age are considered children and cannot legally agree to have sex. In other words, even if the child or teenager says yes, the law says no. Generally, "I thought she was 18" is not considered a legal excuse, it's up to you to make sure your partner is old enough to legally take part.
> 
> *Do both people have the capacity to consent?*
> ...


And one more thing and then I have spoken my peace on the subject:
*Sexual assault is never the survivor's fault, even if they were drinking or using drugs. Regardless of whether or not the survivor was engaged in illegal activity, the law enforcement officer will only investigate the crime being reported. (Penal Code 13823.11)*


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> NatetheGreat said:
> 
> 
> > That is where most male rape victims are raped, but some are raped outside of jail. This website has a short list of myths and realities of male rape.
> ...


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> skycloud86 said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, but how the hell can a woman rape a dude? I mean, how could the dude get an erection if he is scarred and doesn't want one? I know it's difficult for me to get a hard on, when I am scarred.
> ...


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> NatetheGreat said:
> 
> 
> > Just because it is difficult for you doesn't mean that it's impossible. Also, there's drugs that could be used to stimulate you and cause an erection.
> ...


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

Cruciferae said:


> That's awesome. Honestly, I'd be interested in having sex with men more often if they were more vocal. :wink:


Yeah? Are you telling them that?

Because really, all we want is for you to have fun too, and of course, to have a shot at ever having sex again. Err... at least with somebody.

The biggest problem is, "we men", and especially "we younger men", have no idea what the fuck we are doing or what you like so we have to make it up as we go along.

If "you women" would bluntly tell us "this is what I like. The ( better / louder / faster / whatever ) you do it, the more I'm going to like it, and the greater your chances are that you are ever going to get to do this again" it would be a huge help to the both of us.

I'd even wear a funny hat if you told me that's what it took.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> The biggest problem is, "we men", and especially "we younger men", have no idea what the fuck we are doing or what you like so we have to make it up as we go along.


*Flies back in*


I think this has to do with any two people of any age. _No one naturally knows what their partner wants. _ You are a "virgin" when you approach a new partner, I don't care how many times you've had sex before or with how many partners. This is because _every individual is different in their preferences._ Both men and women need to communicate. Some men LIKE have their balls licked and for others, it tickles them too much, etc. So do not assume, you can tea bag because not all guys like it. Get my drift?

I love to have sexy talk during sex and asking questions like "Can I go here? Do you like me to lick here?". Guys that just tell me straight up "Oh, yeah take my **** and ***** in your ******". That's just some good clean fun. :happy:

Every person is different. You both should be open and just listen and learning and teaching each other how to pleasure one another's bodies. Have some freaking fun for God's sake. Lose your inhibitions.

Oh yeah, and always be vocal about when you're about to cum. :wink:

But I will say it again and again: I take personal responsibility in my sex life. I communicate. I can only blame myself if I am having "bad sex". And that's never happened. roud:


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> *Flies back in*
> 
> 
> I think this has to do with any two people of any age. _No one naturally knows what their partner wants. _ You are a "virgin" when you approach a new partner, I don't care how many times you've had sex before or with how many partners. This is because _every individual is different in their preferences._ Both men and women need to communicate. Some men LIKE have their balls licked and for others, it tickles them too much, etc. So do not assume, you can tea bag because not all guys like it. Get my drift?
> ...


lol, such a diplomatic way that we enneagram 7's put things lol. You do make a valid point though. In addition, I took a another enneagram test and your buddy Kev thinks that I might be a 3 w 4 or a 4 w 3. I'm not quite sure what enneagram type that I am.


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## Drewbie (Apr 28, 2010)

sofort99 said:


> Yeah? Are you telling them that?
> 
> Because really, all we want is for you to have fun too, and of course, to have a shot at ever having sex again. Err... at least with somebody.
> 
> ...


I really do bluntly tell them what I like and I've been told my bluntness is off-putting. :mellow:

Quality of men around these parts is low, though. The good ones are all moved out of town or married a year out of high school. The majority of single men I know get stuck in a sexual rut by 20 and have decided this is what they like and this is what they're willing to do. That may be do to being self conscious and wanting to stick with they know and what's comfortable but it doesn't make repeated experiences a high priority. 

I know not all men are like that, which is why I won't give up on them all together (that and I like dick), I just need a better group to choose from. Or I will, next time I'm single.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

Cruciferae said:


> I really do bluntly tell them what I like and I've been told my bluntness is off-putting.


Damn. Yeah, sorry. You do need a better class of men. Or are they just young? We can be trained if we are just young.


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## Drewbie (Apr 28, 2010)

sofort99 said:


> Damn. Yeah, sorry. You do need a better class of men. Or are they just young? We can be trained if we are just young.


For the most part they're just young. However, I also live in a cultural cesspool so leaving the area would be the best solution.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> I love to have sexy talk during sex and asking questions like "Can I go here? Do you like me to lick here?". Guys that just tell me straight up "Oh, yeah take my **** and ***** in your ******". That's just some good clean fun. :happy:


Hell, we have sex just to talk.

And if you are having a fight? You know that old saw about never going to bed angry?

Bullshit.

Go to bed, fuck, and try to fight. They last about two minutes, and no hard feeling.

Our last (imaginary) fight:

"What the hell! I can't believe you did that!"

"Don't talk to me like that."

"Well, what were you thinking?"

"Look... just take your clothes of and get in bed."

"OK."



<grumble grumble grumble>



"I can't believe you gave your mom $XXXX! What the fuck were you thinking? I... Uhh... Eee... Ughhh.

OK. I understand why you did that. If it was my mom, I would have felt sorry for her too. But this was our joint account. If you need to do this again, I need you to either use your personal account, or let me know before you go into the joint account."

"I know. I should have. I just payed some bills and didn't have it in mine. I should have let you know first, or at least sooner. I'll replace it out of my personal account in the morning and THAT!!! Do that again! But harder!"

You just can't be mad at somebody during that.:laughing:


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

Cruciferae said:


> I know not all men are like that, which is why I won't give up on them all together (that and I like dick), I just need a better group to choose from. Or I will, next time I'm single.



You know, after reading your whole post again...

You are an ISTP so you are super compatible with men, you can openly say the above, and you still say you can't find decent men?

My only advice to you is:

Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> Married to an ENFJ.


I had the ISTP/ENFP combo going for 2 years. Wow....

Wow... 

Nothing like it. Yes, yes. Good use of anger. I concur and I remember it well. 

Sex life keeps relationships very strong indeed.


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## sofort99 (Mar 27, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> I had the ISTP/ENFP combo going for 2 years. Wow....
> 
> Wow...
> 
> ...


The sex life does keep the relationship strong.

But this pairing has a *lot* of potential energy that seems to manifest itself in physicality. She gets me out of my head. I get her out of the house.

Either you find a positive way to burn it off or, I imagine, wind up killing each other.

Sex is a very efficient way that brings us together. We also spar together, and sometimes she will throw an airsoft pistol at me and we will go to opposite ends of the house and start one of our little games of "hide and seek".

ISTP / ENFJ is great fun, but could also be volatile.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

sofort99 said:


> The sex life does keep the relationship strong.
> 
> But this pairing has a *lot* of potential energy that seems to manifest itself in physicality. She gets me out of my head. I get her out of the house.
> 
> ...


You just really made me have a huge epiphany. I'm not kidding.

In my ENFP/ISTP relationship, there was no Dom or Sub. I just thought about it. I know I had a bit more experience but there was no way I was dom. Honestly, I did lead every now and then. And he did too. I don't know. We just kept experimenting and letting the moment lead us. It just sort of felt like we were "there together".

I also remember feeling like we were two equal kids having fun with each other's bodies.

We just wanted to get each other off. It was so much fun. Afterwards we'd look at each other dumbfounded and say "Where did we just go?"

Absolutely undeniable chemistry between us. VERY RARE. It was crazy. 

But he took me out of my head I think. Well actually I know I took him out of his because he was the one who made the "where did we just go?" comment. 

Actually I think we just went out of this world together. We were both very open with each other and to new ideas.

Wow. Thanks for the epiphany. I'm going to think about this. I don't think he was a dom or a sub and neither was I. 

Crazy. I'm confused now. Thank you.


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## Codger (Aug 7, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> Due to a birth defect, I can't make my own testosterone, have only one testicle and thus I have low levels of testosterone. To be honest, I'm more bothered about being able to retain the ability to be a father in the future.


I've only got a single nut too - cancer in my case - and other than stress from work depressing my sex drive nown again, I'm still fairly horny. Not as much as I was in my teens, but I hold my own ... so to speak roud:


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Codger said:


> I've only got a single nut too - cancer in my case - and other than stress from work depressing my sex drive nown again, I'm still fairly horny. Not as much as I was in my teens, but I hold my own ... so to speak roud:


I'm sorry to hear that.

I'm just not that interested in sex, personally.


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## conformità (Mar 14, 2010)

its funny how a converstaion about what role you play in bed has changed into a discussion about what you could take someone to court for.


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## curious0610 (Jun 27, 2010)

Maybe someone can start another thread on "Do you think it's acceptable for men to ___?"

and THIS thread can resume back to the original question and focus of the OP. What do you guys think? Cause this thread has derailed a lot.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Actually it's called sexual abuse.
> 
> However, I have no problem waking my guy up with a blow job. I like to tell my guy I'm his "little alarm". But I do it only because I know my man likes it and loves to be "surprised" that way.


Best alarm clock ever. Too bad I can't buy YOU at Walmart.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

NatetheGreat said:


> Best alarm clock ever. Too bad I can't buy YOU at Walmart.


Yeah, I don't step foot in Walmarts.

Okay, so now that Sofort99 has cracked my head open, I have drawn a new conclusion.

I am no longer dominant or submissive in bed. I am just me.

What is _that_ title? Here's what I am in bed:

I am assertive but I also don't mind my partner taking control and pushing the limits. I like for him to go for it aggressively, I can speak up if something isn't working. I can also speak up if I'm not getting something. My partner better also let me give to him. It's such a turn on for me when my partner orgasms, that makes me hot as hell. It makes me feel good to go down on him and drink him. I like being told what to do. I like being asked for things. I like being on top, bottom, sideways, hanging from chandeliers, etc. Slow, fast, grinding, rubbing, kissing, and teasing. I enjoy hate sex, making love, sparring, and having a wild blast. I also firmly believe in teaching each other about our bodies.

I just wouldn't like it if a guy were to say "Have your way with me" in some girlie voice and just lay there. Ew. That would be a major turn off. I'm very feminine in bed and that's enough for me. I wouldn't like a submissive guy in bed, or a guy that wants me to whip him (Dear God). But I would like a person confident in themselves and open enough to explore. I just love paying attention and figuring out each other's rhythm. I'm not sure if that is a sub or dom thing. 

So I no longer think I'm a dom or a sub. In bed, I am just an extension of who I am in real life. I am deeply against role playing. What I am in real life is enough: I'm fun wacky, crazy, passionate, sensual, feminine, warm, open, vulnerable, and intense, among other things.:happy:

Perhaps what I like in bed is what I like in the relationship itself: partnership.


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## conformità (Mar 14, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Yeah, I don't step foot in Walmarts.
> 
> Okay, so now that Sofort99 has cracked my head open, I have drawn a new conclusion.
> 
> ...




role playing can be fun though :tongue:

i dont think id take it too far with whips and things though, mind you whos knows what id do when im pissed haha!!! :crazy:


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## conformità (Mar 14, 2010)

Codger said:


> Courtroom sex: when your wife screws you for every penny.


haha. all is fair in love and war remember :happy:


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Yeah, I don't step foot in Walmarts.
> 
> Okay, so now that Sofort99 has cracked my head open, I have drawn a new conclusion.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I hate someone to just lay there too. Sex is about partnership and is a team effort. If a girl laid there, I'd feel like I was having sex with a blow up doll.


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

assbiscuits said:


> *Since I never really addressed this topic.
> 
> When I'm with someone, I don't really think "Be dominant! Be submissive!"
> I don't think gay/lesbian couples should emulate gender roles in straight couples...:dry:*




_There are two Proactive Enterprising Roles:
Initiators (expressive and directive): *Field Marshal (ENTJ)*, Supervisor (ESTJ), Promoter (ESTP), Teacher (ENFJ)—Preemptive
Contenders (attentive and directive): Mastermind (INTJ), Inspector (ISTJ), Crafter (ISTP), Counselor (INFJ)—Competitive

There are two Reactive Inquiring Roles:
Coworkers (expressive and informative): Inventor (ENTP), Provider (ESFJ), Performer (ESFP), Champion (ENFP)—Collaborative
Responders (attentive and informative): Architect (INTP), Protector (ISFJ), Composer (ISFP), Healer (INFP)—Accommodative_

I would think Proactive/Competitive types like INTJs would be more dominating but it would be interesting to see how it really is?


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

jack london said:


> _There are two Proactive Enterprising Roles:
> Initiators (expressive and directive): *Field Marshal (ENTJ)*, Supervisor (ESTJ), Promoter (ESTP), Teacher (ENFJ)—Preemptive
> Contenders (attentive and directive): Mastermind (INTJ), Inspector (ISTJ), Crafter (ISTP), Counselor (INFJ)—Competitive
> 
> ...


*
Seeking sexual dominance has nothing to do with personality.*



> It has been wrongly assumed that the ENTj is necessarily a controlling and bossy individual. In reality, he doesn't really care about bossing people around for it's own sake. What he's interested in is getting things done in the most efficient way. The ENTj can appear very relaxed and cool around people who accomplish what needs to be done naturally. The ENTj may appear very commanding when he feels as though there is too much chaos. Considering he is also impatient and decisive, he can come off pretty strong to others when things don't go 'the Right way'. However, an ENTj, contrary to alot of types, will not seek positions of power for power, but simply because he wants to have the freedom of implementing the best possible decisions. He fundamentally loves independance. It enables him to realize his visions and make his dreams come true. For this reason, he has a strong entrepreneurial spirit. He wishes his independance from societal constraints and being able to do things according to his ideas.


*^Wanting dominance doesn't have much with personality either^, I think that comes down to insecurity.*


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