# When Sx needs go unfulfilled



## Freelancepoliceman (Dec 17, 2015)

I've been questioning my preference for Sx or Sp. My confusion lies in the fact that I have no one to 'bond' with, in any way -- I intensely dislike most of the people I interact with. My question is, what happens to Sx-variants when their emotional needs go unfulfilled? Do they fall back on their secondary variant? Or do they seek to bond with anyone they can, no matter who they are?


----------



## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

Uh, start working on the third instinct?

Sx/Sp/So. By default, I'm heavily Sx/Sp/__. If I'm not focused on Sx, I'm onto __/Sp/So.

I read in a random Enneagram Monthly article that perhaps the Sx instinct "disintegrates" to So instinct, since if someone has no one to bond with, turning the attention towards the social crowd would increase the chances of finding someone to bond with. Like, want to have sex and have no one to do it with? Use Tinder!

No, I do not just seek to bond with anyone I can, no matter who they are. That's just stupidly common sense-defying, incredibly desperate, and just opens you up to be exploited and used by anyone. Com'on, have some dignity.


----------



## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

I look for anything that sparks me and fires up my intensity. Lack of a relationship, be it friends or more, never stopped me from being incredibly obsessed with something else.
More often than not, it was music and other forms of self-expression. I'm sure many others will find other activities to pour their life into.
I also never quit working on my desirability. It's always in the back of my mind. Though I'm sure me being an image type might play into that.

The point is, Sexual seeks to merge its life form with the object of desire. Preferably, this happens in a relationship, but that obviously isn't there 'always'. Often when they're not in a relationship, there will be a strong drive to find an avenue where they *can *substitute this need.

Sx dominant means that, at least on some level, *not* looking for an 'object' to obsess about is impossible.
It's incredibly difficult for me not to focus on my Sexual instinct needs. To a fault, they're the priority. And nothing else in my life feels right without meeting these needs.

I don't find myself relying on other instincts in order to 'replace' my Sx, instead, they will be used to strengthen the Sx connection, or obsession, with 'the other'.

-

Something else; I can't remember a period in my life where I wasn't somehow obsessed with a person. It fucks me up big time, but I can't not-obsess.
*Years* of obsession for just one person that I never even dated. Go figure...


----------



## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

Just to be clear, I think what @_Sun Daeva_ wrote is also correct. However, I'm of the sx/sp "co-dominant" instinct variety, whereas what Sun Daeva wrote sounds more like purely sx variety.



Susan Rhodes said:


> *Determining your Subtype Arena*
> 
> In the Riso-Hudson approach to the enneagram, there's an effort made to determine the "stacking order" of the subtypes, that is, which arena is most dominant, second most dominant, and least dominant. This adds another layer of refinement to the typing process.
> 
> ...


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Sun Daeva said:


> I look for anything that sparks me and fires up my intensity. Lack of a relationship, be it friends or more, never stopped me from being incredibly obsessed with something else.
> More often than not, it was music and other forms of self-expression. I'm sure many others will find other activities to pour their life into.
> I also never quit working on my desirability. It's always in the back of my mind. Though I'm sure me being an image type might play into that.
> 
> ...


I can relate to this on so many levels. 

sx is obsession, for a person, the lack of a person, music, movies, art, your cause, your political stance, it is the obsession itself, not the object that makes you an sx. 

no matter who they are? haha, that is just out of question for sx/sp, for me at least. It is ridiculous how lonely I feel even at times I am surrounded by people, even when I am asked out and I feel no spark so I just avoid them. Hold on to an ideal or someone you never had the chance to bond with or your stars not aligning. Another just won't do. It is the longing itself what I am left with but it is just there, I can't switch it on and off.

It is in the subtlest hint the sparks in your eyes and the words run to your mind when someone talks about a movie you like and you get to tell about it. You are just never without.

But really, lack of that deep connection is bitter.


----------



## Quang (Sep 4, 2014)

Sun Daeva said:


> The point is, Sexual seeks to merge its life form with the object of desire. Preferably, this happens in a relationship, but that obviously isn't there 'always'. Often when they're not in a relationship, there will be a strong drive to find an avenue where they *can *substitute this need.
> 
> Sx dominant means that, at least on some level, *not* looking for an 'object' to obsess about is impossible.
> It's incredibly difficult for me not to focus on my Sexual instinct needs. To a fault, they're the priority. And nothing else in my life feels right without meeting these needs.
> .


Very well said! I also have a similar experience.

I would add that "Do you have a passion for something?" is a good SX-dom question to ask someone, because it addresses their obsession. The question avoids small talk and speaks about the individual. If the person has a passion, I would say that they are in the 'obsession phase' (to a mate/lifestyle/icon), but if they don't have one yet, they are in the 'seeking phase' (experimenting/feel lacking/imagining). The feeling of personal lack and inadequacy is what motivates SX-doms to obtain the object of their obsessions, as well as intensifying feelings of jealousy when someone else has something they don't. 

One of the distinct characteristics of the Sexual instinct is the extremes. In comparison to SP and SO, the SX is the more 'crazy' and 'emotionally fueled' type, because the lengths which SX-doms are willing to pursue their object of obsession in order to 'merge' with it at a spiritual level is extreme, impulsive, and reckless. It contributes to addictive lifestyles which on the other hand, generates the most memorable moments. SX shines in adolescence.

One expression of SX is when people believe immovable objects as a living being or a part of themselves (e.g. their beloved sword, car, bike, pet). It is about creating an intense connection that goes beyond physical boundaries and death (To fall love with someone to the extent that death does not matter).

SX: I will die with you
SO: I will die for my country/family/cause
SP: I am not dying


----------



## Freelancepoliceman (Dec 17, 2015)

cir said:


> Uh, start working on the third instinct?
> 
> Sx/Sp/So. By default, I'm heavily Sx/Sp/__. If I'm not focused on Sx, I'm onto __/Sp/So.
> 
> ...



Oh, I wasn't saying I did it; I was just asking if it was a hypothetical reaction that I could gauge myself by. As for sexuality -- It's more of a desire for intense connection, rather than physical sex specifically. I don't know if this is the SX instinct, or just normal Enneagram 9 behavior.
@Sun Daeva , thanks. I'm wondering if the problems I've been going through as of late are caused by not having the intensity I need in relationships and hobbies and whatnot. Lately I've been trying to fall back on food and music and stimulation in a SP-like way, but if anything it just makes me feel even more empty inside. My driving motivator seems to be intensity in people, subjects, and situations, more than anything else. 
@Quang , I have repeated fantasies about either dying with (an imaginary) somebody else, or for their sake. Lol, the SX example you gave seems quite accurate.


----------



## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

Freelancepoliceman said:


> Oh, I wasn't saying I did it; I was just asking if it was a hypothetical reaction that I could gauge myself by.


 I guess I was mostly responding to this part: "I've been questioning my preference for Sx or Sp. ... Do they fall back on their secondary variant?"

If there's no clear winner, then there may be a possibility that you could have both instincts be co-dominant. That's how it is for me. Even if I feel fulfilled in the sx area of life, if my sp needs aren't met, then the shadow of that instinct takes over... Generally forcing me to decide between the person "fulfilling" my sx needs and my own personal survival and happiness. But if it gets to that point, then I'd realize eventually that the person monopolizing my attention and energy was acting more like a leech, and all this person provides is just a temporary escape fantasy. It _feels_ like a deep connection, but feelings can be deceptive, and when I snap back to reality, I find that there wasn't really anything. Nothing substantial left over. Unless you count that painful feeling analogous to a cocaine withdrawal that lasts for months.

From past experiences, not being aware of how my sx needs manifest themselves lead to me giving into those feelings, which took me to some pretty shitty places. It's also incredibly tiring to give into all the time, because I didn't always feel like I had a choice in the matter. I'm also susceptible to the sx needs of others, and other people are not always safe to be around one-on-one, so I have to drag these interactions out of sx and into so. While it might be painful and it sucks to be "incomplete" without "my other half", it's definitely preferable over being in a shitty and toxic relationship with someone who can fulfill those sx needs.

Sometimes the sx needs are unfulfilled by choice, because the options it presents are all incredibly threatening to the other areas of my life. That intense longing for a deep connection is there, but it's not the end of the world, and it also goes away. And comes back again, and goes away again. And comes back again, and goes away again. Forever and ever. That's right. There may be people in this world who could "fulfill" my sx needs, and I'd still rather die alone than to be with them. I clearly don't have as positive of a regard to that instinct than most other people who replied on this thread. While yes, there's that bitter feeling of "what the fuck is wrong with me that I'm alone", it does not compare to my bitter rage to those who could ruin that part of me. Must... protect... inner idealism...

Above all instincts, I seek to have balance in my life. I just know that sx is in the top part because it takes so little to disproportionately throw the rest of my in chaos. Problems related to sx-area even literally makes my stomach hurt and causes GI tract problems. Thank fucking god the sp in my stack is co-dominant; it feels so responsible in comparison.



> As for sexuality -- It's more of a desire for intense connection, rather than physical sex specifically. I don't know if this is the SX instinct, or just normal Enneagram 9 behavior.


 Yeah, I know, I was being facetious. And because that's the most classic definition of lust. *Fry's squinty face* "Can't tell if having sex or making love..."


----------



## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

I finally figured out why it is that I'm bothered. This definitely won't be a popular opinion, but I think it needs to be said.

Seven is in the ideal-seeking triad and their virtue is sobriety.

Didn't the Fauvres compare the sx instinct to point four? This thing about longing for a deep connection and fantasizing about the ideal partner. The thing about ideals is that no human can live up to your idealized/idolized image/expectations/standards of human perfection. This obsession is just fixation to Holy Perfection in another form. People are already complete wholes. What's the point of obsessing for the "perfect" partner, precisely imagined to fill in a hole you think/feel you have, who cannot possibly exist outside of your mind/heart? Prepare to be constantly disappointed. "Frustration" is another name for the "Ideal-seeking" triad, right?

The thing about ideals is that, within a seven, there's always this doubt at the back of their mind, "is this it?" And after trying a little bit of something, the voice in the back of the seven's head goes "this isn't it". There's one aspect of sobriety that goes "this isn't what you're really looking for", and there's another aspect that goes "what you've been truly looking for has been with you the entire time".

Sevens are "fear forgotten", which is both descriptive and a warning. The longer and harder you ignore that voice in your head, the more you try to mute the voice of point one's superego, the one that goes "this isn't it", the harder and more painful the withdrawal. And sevens fear being in pain, especially deep, soul-crushing pain stemming from being forcibly ripped from their escape fantasy.

And when you're suffering from withdrawal symptoms, emotional pain and physical pain are experienced "as one". Sx-doms seek a merging connection, so how's that? When your brain is depleted from dopamine, serotonin, and endorphins (the "feel good" chemicals), it feels like life is so painfully barren, empty, and not worth living for. And this realization cannot be escaped because the physical pain you'll suffer will always be a reminder. As long as you're alive, you're suffering. 

An sx-dom who cannot stop being obsessed, who cannot accept and make peace with that imagined hole, who absolutely refuses to stop trying to fill in that hole in order to feel "complete", and is absolutely willing to sacrifice everything else in their life in order to attempt to fill in that perceived hole...

In other words, by continuing to be willingly fixated to the sexual instinct, and by continuing to willingly ignore your blind spots (the ACTUAL holes in your life), you're no better than a opiate junkie looking for their next fix. "Deep" has a connotation of "more and more". Like an actual addict, you can't be satisfied by anything less. Why is "just the tip" dangerous?

Why is it considered a bad thing to be a person who, once they found an intimate relationship, completely forgets about the rest of their lives, completely ignoring their friends and family and other obligations? Because inevitably, when the relationship ends, that person will have no one else to turn to for help and support. Friends can try to be supportive and understanding, but if you keep dropping them in favor of a potential lover, then those friends will eventually feel like they're being used. Like things to be discarded once something better comes along.

So when your one sx-relationship crashes and burns under the weight of its instability, you'll have no one to turn to. You'll truly be suffering alone. Not just emotionally, but also physically.

However, just because the ideal of perfection is impossible to attain, doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Because while attempting to attain that goal, we improve ourselves and better the condition of the world around us.

But here? Think about this: sx-doms are idealizing/idolizing a perfect soulmate in order to have a deep, intimate emotional connection beyond all boundaries. They're seeking connection to something everlasting, beyond the boundaries of life and death. Looking for a perfect someone else to provide them a portal to the realm of the eternal. People are just mere mortals, and in order to reach "beyond death", one must actually cross and experience the boundaries of death. But people will just try to cheat death and still expect to be rewarded. There are just so many ways to become disappointed, and so few ways to become satisfied. What kind of life is that?

And when they do come across someone that matches their internal image, do you know what it is that they do? They ignore all of the very real flaws, faults, incompatibility, and even the very real humanity from their match. They elevate their match as their "soulmate", "the one" they've spent their entire life seeking. When they snap out of that fantasy, the flaws become more apparent and glaring. This person is no longer "perfect". The search for "the one" continues. So much for that "deep connection". 

It's incredibly objectifying and dehumanizing. Thinking, believing, and treating someone as less than human is dehumanizing, but so is thinking of someone as more than human. These people aren't gods, and as mere mortals, they cannot truly and permanently grant you bliss like that. If you cannot be happy by yourself, if you cannot find happiness in the presence of loneliness, then you will definitely not be happy in a relationship. And you'll just continue to cycle through objects of obsessions until you die.

For no other reason, than because you're putting all of the responsibility of fulfilling this desire entirely on the other person. If all you're doing is just enjoying this connection and doing nothing on your own to make that connection truly lasting on planet earth, then what makes you think that if such a perfect ideal partner existed, that they'd settle for you?

Be grateful for the experiences that you have now, while you're reading this in the present, because you'll never know when "beyond death" becomes literal. For when you think you've found "the one", something happens and they're literally dead. Now you're alone again. If this was "one in a million", then what are the odds that you'll find another available one, and how long will that take? For how long will you suffer until you find your next fix?

Sevens, especially sx-sevens, seek unity with light or essence of being. What we've been seeking for has been within us the entire time. Everyone has essence and everyone has light. No wonder sevens have a reputation for "narcissism". How can you love others if you don't love yourself? How would you even know what "love" is unless you feel that way about yourself?


----------



## Quang (Sep 4, 2014)

@cir



> If you cannot be happy by yourself, if you cannot find happiness in the presence of loneliness, then you will definitely not be happy in a relationship.


Brilliant comment and post <3

+100 rare candies for you


----------



## Superfluous (Jan 28, 2014)

@cir nailed it on the head, damn


----------



## Zilal (Feb 5, 2011)

Yeah, I'd not judge whether you were sx by how often you're in a relationship, but rather by how much time you spend thinking about relationships, or the need for intensity or connection in general.


----------



## NylonSmiles (Sep 19, 2012)

I feel half alive.


----------



## Napoleptic (Oct 29, 2010)

nichya said:


> sx is obsession, for a person, the lack of a person, music, movies, art, your cause, your political stance, *it is the obsession itself, not the object that makes you an sx*.


Thank you for posting that. It's a frustration of mine to see the SX instinct so often framed only in terms of relationships or sex drive, often accompanied by the implication that the other instincts don't want relationships or that they lack sex drive.



Quang said:


> SX: I will die with you
> SO: I will die for my country/family/cause
> *SP: I am not dying*


I don't know whether you meant to be humorous or not, but that last one had me dying laughing.  (Yes, pun intended.)


----------



## screamofconscious (Oct 15, 2009)

Freelancepoliceman said:


> I've been questioning my preference for Sx or Sp. My confusion lies in the fact that I have no one to 'bond' with, in any way -- I intensely dislike most of the people I interact with. My question is, what happens to Sx-variants when their emotional needs go unfulfilled? Do they fall back on their secondary variant? Or do they seek to bond with anyone they can, no matter who they are?


The Sexual instinct is about a spark between two people. It's about chemistry and merging. People with a strong sx instinct would not take it from anybody who shows intrest. That's like trying to choke down a plate of disgusting food.


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

I feel like I i am in a hurry to be somewhere I don't know where exactly, which really prevents me from enjoying my life or building step by step goals towards a long term vision. Always longing for something, feeling too much but with no outlet. I have felt this immense connection two times in my lives and although, they were the ones to initiate and say things that are similar, that they do not feel this way with other, it just is not the same, they feel familiar as if they have known me blah blah the relationship ended abruptly and wildly stupidly. I just hate being an sx, I wish I could let this all out through work or some passion but I don't have it.


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

I can relate... 

I don't think it matters though having another outlet- I'm passionate about my work but the sx person drive is still there. I'll tell myself that I don't need it, I am perfectly happy being alone, and I am- but sx is there going, "you know what would be cool? let's intensely talk to this person over here."


----------



## ImminentThunder (May 15, 2011)

If I can’t find and form mutual bonds with people (and I can’t, I never can), I throw myself into activities and dreams I’m passionate about instead. Fantasizing about love all the while. Without this, I implode. Even so, it isn’t enough. 

It’s like being lost in the desert, dying of thirst, and finding a pool of salt water. It keeps you going for a while longer, but the thirst will not go away. 

In other words, I have to direct the SX energy elsewhere, or else it’s like a cannon fire being shot in random directions, and it will end up hurting someone.


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

ImminentThunder said:


> If I can’t find and form mutual bonds with people (and I can’t, I never can)


Why not?


----------



## ImminentThunder (May 15, 2011)

littlewyng said:


> Why not?


Ah sorry, I was probably being a little too over the top there. 

Social anxiety, mostly! And just weak social skills in general (I don’t know if it’s the ADHD, or what). I’ve made a lot of progress, I can meet people and carry on conversations, but I still can’t seem to find the person I’m searching for, and I have been looking for so, so long. Ever since I was a little kid, I always dreamed of finding and falling for the right person, but it hasn’t happened and I’m in my late 20s now. I probably need to meet more people outside of work / the same 4 groups I spend time with. But for some reason, I don’t. I think it is fear of rejection, maybe. Probably that, combined with over-idealization of how things should be. 

I can make friendly connections now, after a lot of hard work, but I cannot seem to go any deeper than that even though it is what I most desire. 

I can find those who are interested in me, and those who I am interested in. But, there is almost never any overlap. 

A lot of it is 4 jealousy, too (why does everyone else get this so easily when it is so hard for me) so maybe that’s not SX-specific.


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

It's OK, I realize my question was a little blunt.  

I was 29 when I met my husband. Through someone I worked with. Even though it didn't ultimately work out, which is another story. Don't give up. I didn't talk to more than 1 or 2 people in high school until senior year. 

I think sx is a blessing and a curse. It usually feels like a curse, especially for us extreme introverts, because it's a constant pull in a direction that is uncomfortable for us. But when you do actually start to connect with someone, it kind of takes over and does the extroverting for you. So from that standpoint it's a good thing.


----------



## ImminentThunder (May 15, 2011)

littlewyng said:


> It's OK, I realize my question was a little blunt.
> 
> I was 29 when I met my husband. Through someone I worked with. Even though it didn't ultimately work out, which is another story. Don't give up. I didn't talk to more than 1 or 2 people in high school until senior year.
> 
> I think sx is a blessing and a curse. It usually feels like a curse, especially for us extreme introverts, because it's a constant pull in a direction that is uncomfortable for us. But when you do actually start to connect with someone, it kind of takes over and does the extroverting for you. So from that standpoint it's a good thing.


Thanks, I really needed to hear that today. And in general. 

You make some really, really good points, and it is very encouraging. I will keep trying. You’ve described really well how SX feels for me — constantly feeling a pull to do things that are very uncomfortable to me as an introvert. But there are positive aspects to it, too. It feels so validating to be understood in this regard. I feel like no one around me gets it, a lot of the time. 

Even to have a period of reciprocation with a loved one, even if it’s not forever (though I do very much hope it will be forever) — I hope to feel that someday. I hope you can find it again, too.


----------



## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

I’m Sx, husband is So. I think it is our biggest divide/disconnect. I have a need he doesn’t have.


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> I’m Sx, husband is So. I think it is our biggest divide/disconnect. I have a need he doesn’t have.


Interesting- I think my ex was sp/sx and similar experience- it's that lack of intense connection, if you don't have it I think it's difficult to understand the pull of it. AND I can see it causing jealousy situations- I tend to get along better with guys than girls (present company and folks on this site excepted of course) and so when in a relationship they don't understand the need to connect with others intensely outside of them. 

Actually now that I think about it- I think that's why when I was married I became pretty isolated- it probably was because I didn't want him to be jealous and having that connection was enough. 

Hmmm.


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> I’m Sx, husband is So. I think it is our biggest divide/disconnect. I have a need he doesn’t have.


Most people who are interested in me has so in their stack, usually so/sx and sx/so

The only people I have felt this intense energy with are so/sx or sx/so

which is pretty awkward as I am so blind. I wonder if that is the reason things don't work out. It doesn't help that every time our life situations were branching out as well.


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

littlewyng said:


> I can relate...
> 
> I don't think it matters though having another outlet- I'm passionate about my work but the sx person drive is still there. I'll tell myself that I don't need it, I am perfectly happy being alone, and I am- but sx is there going, "you know what would be cool? let's intensely talk to this person over here."


I don't know, take Andy Warhol, he is consumed by what he does, I want that ideally, not necessarily a partner. But this is coming from a place of hurt so maybe I am just lying to myself. I think I learnt to rationalize my need. It is hard that I can't be responsive to people who are interested in me and it is not that I didn't find some cool, likable, handsome blah blah, but I only ever felt that connection twice. With my first so/sx bf I didn't have this connection but it was a push and pull and I was wondering if that is it, then once I felt it, there was no way I could just try and see with others. And last time, I was so consumed, so sleepless, so happy, it just hurts when he put his so first even though he was the one to initiate and who came too fast too deep. Now he is serially dating to build his network around in the city he is moving in, and while I understand his life situation, I don't understand how a person can fargo a strong connection.


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

ImminentThunder said:


> If I can’t find and form mutual bonds with people (and I can’t, I never can), I throw myself into activities and dreams I’m passionate about instead. Fantasizing about love all the while. Without this, I implode. Even so, it isn’t enough.
> 
> It’s like being lost in the desert, dying of thirst, and finding a pool of salt water. It keeps you going for a while longer, but the thirst will not go away.
> 
> In other words, I have to direct the SX energy elsewhere, or else it’s like a cannon fire being shot in random directions, and it will end up hurting someone.


I am like this. I am heartbroken and I am literally looking for opportunities oceans apart. I want to be reckless and I want to leave everything behind once again. I am aware how stupid it is to move continents away just because I am heartbroken but I did it and the awe with new experiences, places, the drive -for a while- is intoxicating. Also that is how much space I need after a heartbreak like this.

I am sad though for my family, after all the pushing through of grad school and different countries, I have a stable job and I even got myself things that should normally settle me here - at the exact time when I was seeing this person and the whole world made sense all of a sudden, but now I want to wreck it all, begin anew, but afraid as well because I am getting older. This anxiety consumes me everyday, but if it helps I was sleepless for like a week straight and couldn't even eat when I fall in love at the age of 35, and this person did as well until it lasted and he chose to go after his so instincts. So, it is possible but I understand. It is stupid I felt like I have wasted my life since I am 22 or something lol, always living with this anxiety and it prevents me to take steps towards a vision. And now I am aware that I am still capable of so much love but have no outlet, I am just hurt. Maybe part of the reason why I want to go for another adventure with the hope that I will find my soulmate or something


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

nichya said:


> I am like this. I am heartbroken and I am literally looking for opportunities oceans apart. I want to be reckless and I want to leave everything behind once again. I am aware how stupid it is to move continents away just because I am heartbroken but I did it and the awe with new experiences, places, the drive -for a while- is intoxicating. Also that is how much space I need after a heartbreak like this.
> 
> I am sad though for my family, after all the pushing through of grad school and different countries, I have a stable job and I even got myself things that should normally settle me here - at the exact time when I was seeing this person and the whole world made sense all of a sudden, but now I want to wreck it all, begin anew, but afraid as well because I am getting older. This anxiety consumes me everyday, but if it helps I was sleepless for like a week straight and couldn't even eat when I fall in love at the age of 35, and this person did as well until it lasted and he chose to go after his so instincts. So, it is possible but I understand. It is stupid I felt like I have wasted my life since I am 22 or something lol, always living with this anxiety and it prevents me to take steps towards a vision. And now I am aware that I am still capable of so much love but have no outlet, I am just hurt. Maybe part of the reason why I want to go for another adventure with the hope that I will find my soulmate or something


Or maybe that's the trick, sticking around though your instincts say to leave- working through it and figuring out how to just be you. 

but if you figure it out let me know. 🤪


----------



## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I thought my instinctual stacking was So first for a long time because I couldn't relate to having much self-preservation ability, though now I think that might more be a conflict between Sx and Sp--just that I really do do dumb things that put me in danger and then get angry at myself for it.

But I associate Sx energy with being directed in lots of places--like when I want to connect with a stranger through talking about something that others might find personal or boring. Or even just relating to nature.

But idk--because I don't really understand instincts that well. I relate to what @nichya said about feeling like I'm always rushing to get somewhere, but never satisfied with where I am. I also tend to feel sort of like I'm behind a glass wall at times with reality and people because it just isn't very exciting and sometimes it's VERY exciting. I have a habit of asking myself "would I be happy to die right now?" when I want to check in on how satisfied I am with life.

If I feel I'm on an exciting path I feel the existential fear of death lessen (is that Sp? idk--I am really ignorant about instincts), and if I am just feeling lost and like I'm mucking through everything blindly, like some leaf on the surface of the ocean, then I tend to feel a lot more dissatisfied and like I'm not fulfilling my purpose. 

Figure drawing--painting naked people--is one of those things that makes me feel alive. I love it...the discovering of the body and that sort of connection between strangers, though it's not sexual in the way like...literally...but maybe it's related to Sx instinct and that desire to get underneath it all. But that's rare...it happens sometimes--sometimes when I'm being very honest and candid.

I decided against So when I thought about how much I've always hated groups--group dynamics are so confusing to me. If I am around people I'd rather be one-on-one or in a large crowd full of strangers, where I can move freely and talk to people one-on-one about whatever seems interesting or what they are passionate about. But I spend a lot of time alone. 

I don't feel unable to connect with people briefly--what I do feel unable to do is to have that really deep, long-lasting bond--like a best friend, who I can completely be myself around. I don't feel like going into it right now, but also tend to relate a lot to the description of Sx Five and imagining some ideal love and partner--I'd rather be alone with my imagination than with someone that I don't feel an almost obsessive, intense connection with. But it also has to work with survival and reality--I am not into self-destruction and I certainly don't want to harm someone who I love...even by wasting their time. I think a lot about this.

I am not sure what to say about the topic but I am really interested in the discussions in this thread.


----------



## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

I used to be sx/sp but have flipped to sp/sx since being wary often pays dividends. But I hear the drive for intense relationships, loud and clear. Unfortunately, intense relationships can result in a world of hurt when misunderstandings occur since you're vulnerable from being emotionally wide open. So...sp/sx, test to avoid incompatibles.


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> I thought my instinctual stacking was So first for a long time because I couldn't relate to having much self-preservation ability, though now I think that might more be a conflict between Sx and Sp--just that I really do do dumb things that put me in danger and then get angry at myself for it.
> 
> But I associate Sx energy with being directed in lots of places--like when I want to connect with a stranger through talking about something that others might find personal or boring. Or even just relating to nature.
> 
> ...


When i learned about the instinct stacking thing it was actually emotional- like a missing piece of the puzzle about WHY I was like this... from talking to other sx-dominant folks it seems like it's a really huge pull for us. I think you would know. I suspect you are actually so driven- which is less about socialization and more about having a pack around you... just my read, i could be wrong. 



mia-me said:


> I used to be sx/sp but have flipped to sp/sx since being wary often pays dividends. But I hear the drive for intense relationships, loud and clear. Unfortunately, intense relationships can result in a world of hurt when misunderstandings occur since you're vulnerable from being emotionally wide open. So...sp/sx, test to avoid incompatibles.


I don't think you can CHANGE it though- it's kind of an ingrained thing, instincts. It would be great to be able to. 

The ENTJ I know who is sp driven is VERY survivalist and security-centric.


----------



## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

littlewyng said:


> I don't think you can CHANGE it though- it's kind of an ingrained thing, instincts. It would be great to be able to.
> 
> The ENTJ I know who is sp driven is VERY survivalist and security-centric.


I've yet to read anything about whether or not instinctual stackings can change over time but it would be logical that it's possible to change because of life's experiences. Most people slowly change over time where it's not obvious on a daily basis but say, over a decade, there's change. But yeah, change in a single moment, not likely.


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

mia-me said:


> I've yet to read anything about whether or not instinctual stackings can change over time but it would be logical that it's possible to change because of life's experiences. Most people slowly change over time where it's not obvious on a daily basis but say, over a decade, there's change. But yeah, change in a single moment, not likely.


I dunno, my thought was that instincts were just that- instincts, and they wouldn't change over time- but you're right, I haven't actually seen anything formal about it, so it's just an impression.


----------



## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

littlewyng said:


> I dunno, my thought was that instincts were just that- instincts, and they wouldn't change over time- but you're right, I haven't actually seen anything formal about it, so it's just an impression.


Entertaining your perspective, that would mean that I've over-ridden my instinctual preferences with my conscious mind. Or maybe I've always been sp/sx. Either might be possible. I've had non-intense relationships and intense relationships where the former is wonderful from a low drama perspective and the latter, so satisfying until drama hits and then, OMG, get me away from this crazy situation! 😅


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Yeah so sx isn't even just relationship relationships- that's the crazy part. Even friendships it's like- hello, you don't know me but I will have an extremely intense discussion with you immediately. How do you feel about that?


----------



## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

littlewyng said:


> Yeah so sx isn't even just relationship relationships- that's the crazy part. Even friendships it's like- hello, you don't know me but I will have an extremely intense discussion with you immediately. How do you feel about that?


Love it with the right person and hate it with the wrong one.

Edit - I have trust issues with strangers, considering how crazy the interwebs can be.


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

Exactly- and when it's not reciprocated it can be extremely annoying because you still want that intense connection.


----------



## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

littlewyng said:


> When i learned about the instinct stacking thing it was actually emotional- like a missing piece of the puzzle about WHY I was like this... from talking to other sx-dominant folks it seems like it's a really huge pull for us. I think you would know. I suspect you are actually so driven- which is less about socialization and more about having a pack around you... just my read, i could be wrong.


Yeah--I can see why you would. I felt relieved to understand why I disliked group dynamics so much but I still haven't learned much about the instincts.

It would be interesting if I was So driven even though I can't stand groups most of the time. The main reason I thought I was was because I associated it with more abstract social institutions or concepts--such as ideologies or cultural beliefs--because I am interested in culture and I do feel passionate about society and the world. Such as larger global communities.

I think this contrasts with some people who do not really care about people who are very different than them too much--not to be dismissive, but they seem not to care too much about someone who isn't in their immediate friend group. I've never really felt like that as I felt there is a common thread that runs through humanity, and I could have just as easily been born in is different body to a different family--some aspects of my identity are just chance, just like everyone else.

So I relate to that--whether it's the social instinct or not.

The idea of a "pack" is extremely disturbing to me. I've always disliked group dynamics when people start acting like a wild dog pack, hurting other people who aren't in their group and expecting absolute loyalty just because it's some kind of group loyalty to them. That term is something I've used sort of derisively before to describe groups of people acting in ways I consider sort of...immoral. I mean, not to get too critical since I pretty much am a loner type of person irl and I understand what happens when you draw the ire of a pack of people by accidentally insulting one of them. But I never liked that type of blind loyalty. It makes me uncomfortable and I can't perform it.

I can work in groups but I prefer not to. The most "good" group experience I can think of--I mean, which was really touching to me, was when I went to a Bernie Sanders rally and Sarah Lee Guthrie performed "This Land is Your Land"--and people joined in and began singing together. And I started crying because it was so touching.

So that's the type of thing that made me think I might be So/sx or Sx/So. I didn't relate to the Sp since I often put myself in danger...for dumb reasons. Like standing between a couple giant skinheads to break up a fight--because it "felt" like I should do something. I will NEVER do that again, because I could have been killed. My life is full of those kinds of incidents...where I was compelled to do something most people would consider totally stupid. Sometimes it works fine and I feel good I figured out a solution--sometimes it has terrible results. I did learn not to stand between men who want to fight and also probably gained some experience to break up dog fights, as I learned firsthand not to try to use my body to block violence in all situations. So when I had to break up a fight between my dog and a large boxer that jumped the fence, I poured vinegar on both their heads...maybe that is Sp?

But yeah--it's terrifying to me what people do in groups. The term "pack" has a really negative connotation to me, but I am still considering So as being a second stacking because of the ideological/humanity ideals.

I just can't tell if I have Sp at all...I do think about my own survival, but only because I've gotten out of so many close calls...imo that I probably got into by following other instincts.

This includes many complicated relationships or friendships that most people wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, but I wanted to know about the person or give them the benefit of the doubt, or some other odd connection. 

I've had some group friendships in my life--the largest group I've been a part of irl is three people, but even then it usually was sort of problematic because I would usually get close with someone and another person would feel like the third wheel. It wasn't ever me because I wouldn't bother hanging out with people if I felt like that, I don't think. I'd rather just be alone. There were even times when I came between two friends and they would sort of fight over me. I really dislike group dynamics tbh--I can't navigate small groups or "packs" very well at all. I prefer one close friend and I prefer to engage one-on-one.

I think it's interesting you'd associate that with me, and it's fine if you do--I am not really sure how I can relate to it though.


----------



## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Might is right is bad, bad mojo. Eff that noise.


----------



## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> Yeah--I can see why you would. I felt relieved to understand why I disliked group dynamics so much but I still haven't learned much about the instincts.
> 
> It would be interesting if I was So driven even though I can't stand groups most of the time. The main reason I thought I was was because I associated it with more abstract social institutions or concepts--such as ideologies or cultural beliefs--because I am interested in culture and I do feel passionate about society and the world. Such as larger global communities.
> 
> ...


I bet so/sx. I think you like people around you- not necessarily a pack I guess but- being part of things, part of a group. You can be so-dominant and still like alone time. Just my read on it.


----------

