# Intellects, what do you think of ENTJ's?



## Ozymandias

I've seen this question arise many times on our forum, so I was curious as to what you all thought of us. Be brutally honest without unnecessary insult. Thanks ladies and gents!


----------



## Abraxas

Ozymandias said:


> I've seen this question arise many times on our forum, so I was curious as to what you all thought of us. Be brutally honest without unnecessary insult. Thanks ladies and gents!


Being brutally honest, whenever I think of ENTJs, I think of what I read about in a book about MBTI.


----------



## cantstopthinking

Being brutally honest, whenever I think of ENTJs, I think of bulldozers, iron fists, insensitive(worse than INTJs, in my opinion), manipulative(goal centric)


----------



## MegaTuxRacer

Basically what @Abraxas said. I dunno if I have met an ENTJ before. I strongly suspect a girl in one of my classes is one, and she's really cool. Could you elaborate on what specifically you would like to know more about?

Actually @cantstopthinking inspired me. I think the Te dom and inferior Fi gets in the way of the ENTJ becoming seriously the best type of all. It seems that ENTJs will get a list of requirements for a project and will find the most efficient way that will achieve that goal. It isn't always, and often never is, the most ideal way to achieve the goal. Whenever I see the final product of what an ENTJ has made, the personality in the final product is that of ENTJ, which isn't all that interesting or endearing to me. I always seem to think that true beauty is often completely lost on ENTJs.


----------



## cantstopthinking

mkeath said:


> Basically what @Abraxas said. I dunno if I have met an ENTJ before. I strongly suspect a girl in one of my classes is one, and she's really cool. Could you elaborate on what specifically you would like to know more about?
> 
> Actually @cantstopthinking inspired me. I think the Te dom and inferior Fi gets in the way of the ENTJ becoming seriously the best type of all. * It seems that ENTJs will get a list of requirements for a project and will find the most efficient way that will achieve that goal. It isn't always, and often never is, the most ideal way to achieve the goal. Whenever I see the final product of what an ENTJ has made, the personality in the final product is that of ENTJ*, which isn't all that interesting or endearing to me. I always seem to think that true beauty is often completely lost on ENTJs.


^this 

"What's the point being at the top, when there's nobody there to share it with" is one of the things i've said to my friend...


----------



## Abraxas

I could have elaborated and described what it says about ENTJs in the book I was referring to in my first post, but that doesn't seem to be the reason why this thread was made.

Did you post this thread in order to determine the function preferences of those who have or will respond to it?


----------



## Kuthtuk

I have 1 ENTJ friend witch i came to know through my brother (ESTP), he would allways talk about this friend of his that had the "same line of thinking" that I did.

One day we talked for 15 min and we had a ball, we could talk on the same level of goofyness/intelect, witch is very rare for an ENTP. His manipulative ways with my inventiveness makes me think that if we put our minds together we can conquer the world. =D


----------



## Sovereign

mkeath said:


> Basically what @Abraxas said. I dunno if I have met an ENTJ before. I strongly suspect a girl in one of my classes is one, and she's really cool. Could you elaborate on what specifically you would like to know more about?
> 
> Actually @cantstopthinking inspired me. I think the Te dom and inferior Fi gets in the way of the ENTJ becoming seriously the best type of all. It seems that ENTJs will get a list of requirements for a project and will find the most efficient way that will achieve that goal. It isn't always, and often never is, the most ideal way to achieve the goal. Whenever I see the final product of what an ENTJ has made, the personality in the final product is that of ENTJ, which isn't all that interesting or endearing to me. I always seem to think that true beauty is often completely lost on ENTJs.


Spoken like a true ENTP. Your whole type seems to be under the impression that there are other relevant factors besides efficiency and utility. Sounds like a personal problem. :tongue:


----------



## absentminded

I _might_ know an ENTJ in meat world and she's pretty cool.

Honestly, I haven't found you very interesting or worthy of study. *shrug* I spend more time snooping in the INTJ and ENTP forums. Every time I go in the ENTJ forum my reaction is always meh.


----------



## MegaTuxRacer

Sovereign said:


> Spoken like a true ENTP. Your whole type seems to be under the impression that there are other relevant factors besides efficiency and utility. Sounds like a personal problem. :tongue:


No we just recognize that utility and efficiency are not satisfied through bullet point lists. :wink:


----------



## Marshmallow Moo

I can't stand ENTJs. And when I mean I can't stand ENTJs, I mean I can't stand how awesome they are. I love how they don't get offended at ANYTHING and are usually very open-minded yet stubborn and pragmatic at the same time. They are brave yet intelligent and I find that intoxicatingly attractive. Yet they also get on my nerves when they think so and so is out to get them because of such and such and the world is plotting to overthrow them. I got this all the time from my ENTJ friend. She's great, but I got annoyed with her sometimes because of how often she thought a person's comment was meant to secretly sabotage her. Other than that, they are great. (Sometimes a little exhausting. But great.)


----------



## CCCXXIX

absentminded said:


> I _might_ know an ENTJ in meat world and she's pretty cool.
> 
> Honestly, I haven't found you very interesting or worthy of study. *shrug* I spend more time snooping in the INTJ and ENTP forums. Every time I go in the ENTJ forum my reaction is always meh.


Yeah, the ENTJ forum is boring as hell.


----------



## Perhaps

I've only known one. Really amazing guy; brilliant, tons of energy, charismatic, and honest. We understood each other effortlessly. It was like a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately we both got too absorbed in our studies and drifted.


----------



## L'Empereur

I don't think I've ever met an ENTJ in real life, but I like some of the historical ENTJs.


----------



## Ozymandias

Abraxas said:


> I could have elaborated and described what it says about ENTJs in the book I was referring to in my first post, but that doesn't seem to be the reason why this thread was made.
> 
> Did you post this thread in order to determine the function preferences of those who have or will respond to it?


I posted this thread knowing exactly who would respond since I posted it in the NT forum. I posted it to follow a trend I noticed throughout the forum.


----------



## L

My older cousin is an ENTJ, he's a cool guy but completely egocentric. That's really his only big flaw. But he does care about me quite a bit so he tends to be somewhat protective of me and a little bit of a mentor, which is pretty cool, and he recognizes the depths of my intelligence (he's probably the only one that truly knows how smart I am, but at the same time does see my flaws).

They are like INTP's and INTJ's on steroids lmao, it's just harder for them to get interested in something. Also they may seem like bulldozers to most people it is actually just their way of getting to the "meat" of the conversation faster, so you can always bet that they won't beat around the bush, which is pretty refreshing. However they have a huge problem with hogging the conversation and it would probably be a little bit harder to get them to realise they are too overpowering at times, but I have also noticed that my cousin doesn't have a problem with admitting (if only to himself) that he is wrong lol.

Also the chancellor at my school is an ENTJ I believe however I don't hang around him that much other then to play chess lol.


----------



## Sovereign

mkeath said:


> No we just recognize that utility and efficiency are not satisfied through bullet point lists. :wink:


Touche' :tongue:


----------



## NeedsNewNameNow

mkeath said:


> inspired me. I think the Te dom and inferior Fi gets in the way of the ENTJ becoming seriously the best type of all. It seems that ENTJs will get a list of requirements for a project and will find the most efficient way that will achieve that goal. It isn't always, and often never is, the most ideal way to achieve the goal. Whenever I see the final product of what an ENTJ has made, the personality in the final product is that of ENTJ, which isn't all that interesting or endearing to me. I always seem to think that true beauty is often completely lost on ENTJs.


Right, I can't tell you how often I've seen an ENTP entrepreneur create a unique product or company. Then ENTP moves onto something else and new ENTJ management team comes in, makes efficiency moves. Treats product/company as just a 'brand', and loses what made it special in the first place


----------



## NeedsNewNameNow

Marshmallow Moo said:


> I can't stand ENTJs. And when I mean I can't stand ENTJs, I mean I can't stand how awesome they are. I love how they don't get offended at ANYTHING and are usually very open-minded yet stubborn and pragmatic at the same time. They are brave yet intelligent and I find that intoxicatingly attractive. *Yet they also get on my nerves when they think so and so is out to get them because of such and such and the world is plotting to overthrow them. I got this all the time from my ENTJ friend. She's great, but I got annoyed with her sometimes because of how often she thought a person's comment was meant to secretly sabotage her.*


I think we INTPs sometimes miss these kinds of undercurrents in conversations, like we'll take comments at face value at least until we know the person well enough to understand their motives and know better? Maybe it's projection since our comments are usually meant at face value, we instinctively assume others are? Not saying your friends paranoia is completely justified, but reality may lie somewhere between her view and your view..


----------



## Eleventeenth

In a work environment, I love the fact that you can pretty much say whatever is on your mind around ENTJ's - they aren't going anywhere, they aren't getting offended, and they'll even appreciate it. It's reassuring in the sense that you don't feel like you have to watch what you say. You can just kind of be real with them. Even out of the NT's, ENTJ's are the ones that I feel I can be brutally honest with, in a T sort of way, and they'll still be standing there asking for my opinion and input. There's less of a need to tip-toe around and play social games - and that's refreshing. I go in and sit with my boss at times and we hash things out real quick and we speak very blunt with each other. That's the only way to get to the bottom of things. Within a 10 minute conversation, we know exactly where each other stands, who is messing up, where one of us might have dropped the ball, and exactly what needs to be done going forward. That's why ENTJ's are successful in the business world - they cut to the chase and they get stuff done.


----------



## DeductiveReasoner

a talkative INTJ?
Can't say I've ever met one. But then again, I might have and he/she just had the sense to pose as an SJ to accomplish something. That's what my ENFJ mom does.


----------



## Arbite

They are dastardly villains out to rule the world.


----------



## Chipps

I think entjs are cool. Ive never met another one but would be interested in doing so. I dont think any type is "good" or "bad" since each of our perceptions are based on the world we currently live in. NTs in general make up such a small percentage of the population that our behavior is more likely to be viewed as "unacceptable". 

Im entj 8w7 so let just say alot of the discriptions both good an bad fit me. I value efficiency and competence above all else. I hate stopping to "take it all in". I just move on. I am a humam bulldozer, critical, opinionated and insensitive accroding to everyone else. But as an entj i dont see anything wrong with it. 

Like i said we makeup such a small portion of the population that us being "different" is viewed negatively. If NTs made up the majority of the population we would see feeler in a more negative light. 

But youre all entitled to your opinion. So think as you wish. It certainly wont offend me.


----------



## L

Chipps said:


> Like i said we makeup such a small portion of the population that us being "different" is viewed negatively. If NTs made up the majority of the population we would see feeler in a more negative light.
> 
> But youre all entitled to your opinion. So think as you wish. It certainly wont offend me.


Actually it has been stated in both of Keirsey's books that I have "Please Understand Me I and II" that the ratio of Feelers to Thinkers is 50:50.

However you are correct in stating that the world could use more NT temperaments, as NT's are the minority.


----------



## Chipps

L_Lawliet said:


> Actually it has been stated in both of Keirsey's books that I have "Please Understand Me I and II" that the ratio of Feelers to Thinkers is 50:50.


Thank you. I didnt know that. 

and yes, it would be nice to have more NTs in the world. but we can always dream.


----------



## elixare

L_Lawliet said:


> Actually it has been stated in both of Keirsey's books that I have "Please Understand Me I and II" that the ratio of Feelers to Thinkers is 50:50.
> 
> However you are correct in stating that the world could use more NT temperaments, as NT's are the minority.


Don't think it's exactly 50:50 though. The ratio for men is 50:50, but for women it's 75:25 in favor of feelers, so even in the general population, there is slightly more feelers than thinkers.


----------



## Chipps

childofprodigy said:


> Don't think it's exactly 50:50 though. The ratio for men is 50:50, but for women it's 75:25 in favor of feelers, so even in the general population, there is slightly more feelers than thinkers.


Dammit! Im screwed. Never met another NT female let alone another ENTJ. I have met women that I thought were NT's but then they will say or do something that is obviously not something an NT would do or say. Thats when i realize that they have just been agreeing with everything I said because i have such a strong personality/opinion. Its disappointing.


on another note...is 이민호 set as your avatar?


----------



## elixare

Chipps said:


> Dammit! Im screwed. Never met another NT female let alone another ENTJ. I have met women that I thought were NT's but then they will say or do something that is obviously not something an NT would do or say. Thats when i realize that they have just been agreeing with everything I said because i have such a strong personality/opinion. Its disappointing.


lol I feel you....being NT guy is already alienating....I imagine it'll be even worse for NT women....but hey you can always befriend the guys...

luckily I'm in an industry that's dominated by NTs, so it's currently not as bad as say...high school...

in my industry, it's the non-NTs that gets alienated...



> on another note...is 이민호 set as your avatar?


it totally is....are you Korean?


----------



## Chipps

childofprodigy said:


> Chipps said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dammit! Im screwed. Never met another NT female let alone another ENTJ. I have met women that I thought were NT's but then they will say or do something that is obviously not something an NT would do or say. Thats when i realize that they have just been agreeing with everything I said because i have such a strong personality/opinion. Its disappointing.
> 
> 
> 
> lol I feel you....being NT guy is already alienating....I imagine it'll be even worse for NT women....but hey you can always befriend the guys...
> 
> luckily I'm in an industry that's dominated by NTs, so it's currently not as bad as say...high school...
> 
> in my industry, it's the non-NTs that gets alienated...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on another note...is 이민호 set as your avatar?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> it totally is....are you Korean?
Click to expand...

Haha. I thought so. Im african american but i minored in korean i college. When i graduate next june i want to move to south korea to teach but ultimately to learn the language/culture etc. I knew it was him from boys before flowers.


----------



## Chipps

childofprodigy said:


> lol I feel you....being NT guy is already alienating....I imagine it'll be even worse for NT women....but hey you can always befriend the guys...
> 
> luckily I'm in an industry that's dominated by NTs, so it's currently not as bad as say...high school...
> 
> in my industry, it's the non-NTs that gets alienated...


Yea it is really hard for a woman. you get it from men and women, though i do tend to hang out with men over women. i need to find a industry that caters to NT personality types. which industry are you in specifically?


----------



## elixare

Chipps said:


> Yea it is really hard for a woman. you get it from men and women, though i do tend to hang out with men over women. i need to find a industry that caters to NT personality types. which industry are you in specifically?


I'm in tech....it's pretty much the only industry that's not having a recession right now.....


----------



## mickyj300x

Well, it depends on how 'mature' they are.

In general I admire how much control they have over themselves, and how well they've got their shit together.

The immature ones can be overly pushy (don't know when to back off), arrogant (know it all), brash, tactless, and self-centred .

The mature ones are open-minded, self-motivated, and good to work with.

There should be more adjectives in there, but I can't think of any more for now.


----------



## L

childofprodigy said:


> Don't think it's exactly 50:50 though. The ratio for men is 50:50, but for women it's 75:25 in favor of feelers, so even in the general population, there is slightly more feelers than thinkers.


Actually men tend to favor thinking whilst women tend to favor feeling (usually) and it evens out to 50:50 ratio.

In a survey that was done in the first book 6/10 women reported feeling as their main preference and for men it was 6/10 for thinking, so 4/10 women preferred thinking and 4/10 men liked to feel more (little joke there about the way I worded it lol).

Also on all of the personality tests I have taken where it gives percentage results the women are always represented less in the results of INTP, such as men will be anywhere from 2-4% whilst women will be 1-2%, so the information from those tests seem to suggest the same thing as in Keirsey's book. Mind you I have not throughly read the second just yet but I would be willing to guess that it will also say the same thing (more or less) that the general population eventually evens out at 50:50 Thinking to Feeling ratios. 

Also I have no idea when or where these tests were administered so things might be different elsewhere or might have changed, if you still don't believe me please give a source of your information so I can go look it up myself.


----------



## Juan M

I have a really good ENTJ friend, he is manipulative and intelligent, but "the manipulative thing" its always pointed for the best , he is focused in the plan, but with the years he had understanded and analyzed that the "people matters" because if the people isnt is happy you cant do anything at the 100%. 

He is studying laws, its very responsable, doesnt like much the responsabilty of being leader but he always is (he can put in order things very well), one of the unique persons that i can talk "intellectual" or silly Ns topics with total confidence (its from the only ones that gets and likes dark comedy), also very judger and a good arguer, very good at public speaking.

Also, understress he... im tired/bored of writting this, also his Te can be a issue because always see people and object as utility.


----------



## Jomama

Barfs up some adulation and heaps it upon the craniums of the ENTJ type. <3


----------



## Jacinto

I once knew a girl who tested ENTJ. She was a fucking idiot, and didn't seem to be capable of abstract thinking what so ever. 
I've talked to some ENTJs online though, and i've liked all of 'em.


----------



## Tendency

Jacinto said:


> I once knew a girl who tested ENTJ. She was a fucking idiot, and didn't seem to be capable of abstract thinking what so ever.
> I've talked to some ENTJs online though, and i've liked all of 'em.


That's a stark polarity ^^


----------



## Extraverted Delusion

Of the two ENTJs I personally associate with, neither one is a bad storyteller.

But my oh my the postrationalization at times... Te + Se is a rollercoaster.


----------



## Ozymandias

Extraverted Delusion said:


> Of the two ENTJs I personally associate with, neither one is a bad storyteller.
> 
> But my oh my the postrationalization at times... Te + Se is a rollercoaster.


I never heard that one before, What is it that they do or say exactly?


----------



## Extraverted Delusion

Ozymandias said:


> I never heard that one before, What is it that they do or say exactly?


1st and 3rd function looping NTs tend to be highly unstable in that state. Could you imagine the field day a 20 year old ENTJ PoliSci student at the Occupy protests would have? Te+Se is highly challenging and combattive, and seems to cause a severe imbalance of compulsion and logical conclusion. Ari Gold, the executive from Entourage is a great example.


----------



## Ozymandias

Extraverted Delusion said:


> 1st and 3rd function looping NTs tend to be highly unstable in that state. Could you imagine the field day a 20 year old ENTJ PoliSci student at the Occupy protests would have? Te+Se is highly challenging and combattive, and seems to cause a severe imbalance of compulsion and logical conclusion. Ari Gold, the executive from Entourage is a great example.


Haha so that's what that is... I have no idea why it's called a loop tho, like what is actually happening to those two functions and what about the introverted functions, doThey just disappear for the moment?


----------



## Extraverted Delusion

Ozymandias said:


> Haha so that's what that is... I have no idea why it's called a loop tho, like what is actually happening to those two functions and what about the introverted functions, doThey just disappear for the moment?


I think its called a loop because if you visualize your order your functions as follows: Te Ni Se Fi, utilizing the 1st and 3rd would have a half circle above and below Ni "connecting" the 1st and 3rd functions. This can be explained as the 1st and 3rd functions being connected, with the 2nd function in between not receiving attention.

I drew a quick picture to illustrate this.











The blue dots are packets of information being processed through the appropriate functions.The first and third functions are working simultaneously to digest data. The output is whats observed, this is merely my interpretation of a simplistic visual.


----------



## Dupree

cantstopthinking said:


> "What's the point being at the top, when there's nobody there to share it with" is one of the things i've said to my friend...


I once cynically asked an ENTJ friend if it was lonely at the top, to which he replied, "nope, it's fun." I know he truly enjoys it.


----------



## TheBoss

Juan M said:


> I have a really good ENTJ friend, he is manipulative and intelligent, but "the manipulative thing" its always pointed for the best , he is focused in the plan, but with the years *he had understanded and analyzed that the "people matters" because if the people isnt is happy you cant do anything at the 100%*.
> 
> doesnt like much the responsabilty of being leader but he always is (he can put in order things very well), one of the unique persons that i can talk "intellectual" or silly Ns topics with total confidence (its from the only ones that gets and likes dark comedy), also very judger and a good arguer, very good at public speaking.


You are a very good observer, everything you noted is pretty accurate and common characteristics of the type but I was especially impressed by your ability to understand about ENTJs something very few realize - the part I emphasized with bold.

I wonder what type you are that is such an accomplished observer.


----------



## Protagoras

Oh, I tend to like ENTJs. My sister is an ENTJ and I have always had a good relationship with her. Mainly because we complement each other so well:

+She usually follows through when I give up; she's by far the most _hands-on_ kind of person I know.
+We're both equally blunt about different subjects and topics, which makes us a good team for solving problems and playing games.
+She always tries to involve me in her social life without pressuring me to be a friend of her friends and she won't blame me if I eventually come to the decision that I don't like them.
+She and I are usually very strong-willed but reasonable people, which makes it easy to communicate.

When it comes to ENTJs in general I have also noticed that:

+They are fun to watch in a social setting (from a distance of course). I find it fascinating how they manage to function in social situations that I would avoid at all costs. So, I learn a lot from observing _healthy_ ENTJs.
+They can be extremely useful to me if they are in a position of influence (or power) and still owe me one.
+I usually tend to be the kind of guy they need when they're in trouble and they usually appreciate me for it.

But there are also some things that I have experienced as drawbacks with ENTJs:

-Although I tend to communicate with them very efficiently, I often find that there's not really a deep connection between me and ENTJs; I usually don't form any noteworthy cerebral or emotional bonds with them.
-They can be a bit too manipulative and 'Machiavellian' at times, which leads me to always distrust them a bit more than I distrust others. Although I obviously don't trust that many people to begin with.


----------



## PAdude

This is a small sample, but I have two ENTJ friends and both are extremely unreliable, they commit to something and then just bail last second which is greatly annoying. Overall, I really like one of them but the other one has really started to get on my nerves as well as my other friends' nerves so I don't see him much anymore. Strangely, both of them grew up with controlling mothers, one of them has basically rebelled against her but the other is completely brainwashed by her, she still pretty much runs his life even though he's 20.

I think you guys are extremely creative though and when you embrace it, you can come up with really great things.


----------



## Abx

Demanding, controlling, organize and goal oriented.
I describes my ENTJ friend actually.


----------



## AmberJorr

I love ENTJs. They're my favorite type.

My SO is an ENTJ. One of my two best friends is an ENTJ. Two of my favorite professors are ENTJs. And my favorite characters are always ENTJs. (My ENTJ knows quite a few ENTJs from MUN, so I've heard stories about what happens when you get high concentrations of them in one place. That club attracts them like flies to honey.)

I love the way their minds work and I like watching them use their ENTJ magic on people. Also, watching an ENTJ rip someone to shreds is so much fun. They're fun to talk to and it's difficult to hurt them, which I can really appreciate.

They have their faults, obviously. They have incredibly short attention spans, and are easily distracted by "shiny" ideas and tend to care too much about what other people think (about certain things at least). They're too oblivious, aren't as aware of the possibilities open to them as they could be and can be prone to self-destructive acts among other things, but on the whole I they're an amazing bunch.


----------



## TheBoss

AmberJorr said:


> They have incredibly short attention spans,


Except during a project/goal we obsess with. We can go no sleep/food/toilet/life for days (sort of speech), thinking of nothing else. We can focus tremendously.


edit: Fixed typo Expect -> Except


----------



## AmberJorr

TheBoss said:


> Expect during a project/goal we obsess with. We can go no sleep/food/toilet/life for days (sort of speech), thinking of nothing else. We can focus tremendously.


True. ENTJs can be very focused on something, but they tend to be easily distracted when a newer shinier, exciting idea comes their way. Then they focus intensely on that. My ENTJ SO likes to say that he has an attention span of about three months.


----------



## TheBoss

AmberJorr said:


> an attention span of about three months.


OH! I was thinking along the lines of seconds, minutes as "short" attention span.
Now you specified, I think that is a very accurate observation (and am digging my memory to find personal examples and go "AHA!" because the 3 months seems familiar).


----------



## AmberJorr

TheBoss said:


> OH! I was thinking along the lines of seconds, minutes as "short" attention span.
> Now you specified, I think that is a very accurate observation (and am digging my memory to find personal examples and go "AHA!" because the 3 months seems familiar).


I should have been more specific from the beginning. For me, three months is an incredibly short attention span. I can be focused in on something for _years_ without getting distracted.


----------



## redmanXNTP

I have found ENTJ's to be _very_ good team leaders and point men. They maintain excellent strategic vision and can break it down into logical tasks that help contribute to the overall strategy. They're good at keeping a team accountable and moving forward. 

That said, I think ENTJ's have difficulty accounting for the human element, in an audience for example - they would be terrible at running an advertising campaign. They rely upon the force of their personalities and the power of their information and whatever other "tools" they're using to persuade people, but they lack a lot of the ability to climb inside the heads of others. They tend to view people in absolutes - weak/strong; effective/ineffective; smart/stupid; etc. - so that they can quickly categorize them and then move on. They tend to be ham-handed when dealing with people who they don't understand, or are trying to motivate. 

I also think that the ENTJ's have perhaps the weakest creativity, the ability to "think outside the box", among the NT's. They often are outstanding practitioners at their field, "knowing all the tricks", but if a unique situation comes along and they've not encountered it before they seem to get stuck and look to others (often the NTP's  ) for advice on how to develop a new trick. 

This is all based upon my experience - I've worked with and under a number of ENTJ's.


----------



## redmanXNTP

TheBoss said:


> Except during a project/goal we obsess with. We can go no sleep/food/toilet/life for days (sort of speech), thinking of nothing else. We can focus tremendously.
> 
> edit: Fixed typo Expect -> Except


This is true of all NT's. The difference is how they focus and why.


----------



## TheBoss

redmanXNTP said:


> 1. I have found ENTJ's to be _very_ good team leaders and point men. They maintain excellent strategic vision and can break it down into logical tasks that help contribute to the overall strategy. They're good at keeping a team accountable and moving forward.
> 
> 2. That said, I think ENTJ's have difficulty accounting for the human element, in an audience for example - they would be terrible at running an advertising campaign.
> 
> 3. They tend to view people in absolutes - weak/strong; effective/ineffective; smart/stupid; etc. - so that they can quickly categorize them and then move on. They tend to be ham-handed when dealing with people who they don't understand, or are trying to motivate.


1. I can confirm we are damn strategic. We plan for the next second as well as the next year(s). And we are so set in covering all possible scenarios, is highly unlikely to be caught off guard. 
I will add Diplomacy is somewhat weak. To give an example: war games. I always delegate diplomacy & PR to somebody clever and cunning with words and ofc with a lot of patience and better self control. Someone far more detached than me. 

2. To this I disagree a bit. We have the market researches, we have the facts and data, we ALWAYS take into account even the extremely rare %s. We may be disappointed, even disgusted by our target clients but we will do it correctly and effectively. Is business; their money belong to us. We will tolerate what we must to get them.

3. Look...every book has several chapters, chapter titles, paragraphs but ONE main title, at least I (can't talk for all ENTJs), categorize somewhat like you describe, people enter in one main category but then into countless subcategories for each of their attributes.
We do not think so simply, to have one category and move on. We are master analyzers, we are not satisfied as easily as you describe. We have to have more data to be prepared for 'the possible scenarios'. 
That we Judge yes, and strictly.

I think it may stand for all ENTJs that we believe religiously that Murphy's Law is a powerful law and in everything we do, we try to cover all bases so we escape the Law.


----------



## Empecinado

AmberJorr said:


> I should have been more specific from the beginning. For me, three months is an incredibly short attention span. I can be focused in on something for _years_ without getting distracted.


Always envious of this. I find it very difficult to concentrate and focus. I always have to remind myself of the 'overall project' and almost emulate a J type. 

I think after a year I would need seriously need to diversify, even if it was in the same 'area'.


----------



## Monkey King

AmberJorr said:


> They have their faults, obviously. They have incredibly short attention spans, and are easily distracted by "shiny" ideas and tend to care too much about what other people think (about certain things at least). They're too oblivious, aren't as aware of the possibilities open to them as they could be and can be prone to self-destructive acts among other things, but on the whole I they're an amazing bunch.



I seem to enjoy reading the criticism more than I do the compliments. hahaha. Thank you.

As for attention, it really depends on the project. Once I'm nailed down to one, I follow through until it's complete. This can be applied to how I treat my close relations too. Nailing me down, I've heard, is incredibly difficult. I suspect the project or person has to tickle something in the Ni and Fi system of values to do this.

Would you mind explaining the possibilities portion. Call it what you want, but I've always thought of myself as a person who snatches the best opportunities in a pot of possibilities.


----------



## redmanXNTP

TheBoss said:


> 1. I can confirm we are damn strategic. We plan for the next second as well as the next year(s). And we are so set in covering all possible scenarios, is highly unlikely to be caught off guard.
> I will add Diplomacy is somewhat weak. To give an example: war games. I always delegate diplomacy & PR to somebody clever and cunning with words and ofc with a lot of patience and better self control. Someone far more detached than me.
> 
> 2. To this I disagree a bit. We have the market researches, we have the facts and data, we ALWAYS take into account even the extremely rare %s. We may be disappointed, even disgusted by our target clients but we will do it correctly and effectively. Is business; their money belong to us. We will tolerate what we must to get them.
> 
> 3. Look...every book has several chapters, chapter titles, paragraphs but ONE main title, at least I (can't talk for all ENTJs), categorize somewhat like you describe, people enter in one main category but then into countless subcategories for each of their attributes.
> We do not think so simply, to have one category and move on. We are master analyzers, we are not satisfied as easily as you describe. We have to have more data to be prepared for 'the possible scenarios'.
> That we Judge yes, and strictly.
> 
> I think it may stand for all ENTJs that we believe religiously that Murphy's Law is a powerful law and in everything we do, we try to cover all bases so we escape the Law.


I appreciate the response. 

I hope that you are aware of my awareness of the wide range of personalities and traits possible within each MBTI category, so my comments were based upon more typical trends rather than any perceived absolutes. 

Also, nothing I wrote should be taken as a lack of brainpower. NT's in executive positions in the business world tend to have that in abundance, and the ENTJ's who have risen to the level where they're project leaders certainly have to have it. My experience with them is my VERY highly successful grandfather (who headed a national lobbying organization and interacted with American national political leaders - names who you'd definitely know), and some very successful litigation attorneys in the major city I live in. In other words, these are people whose intelligence and competence I hold in high regard (even envy in some ways). 

Rather, the ENTJ's focus is simply different than the other NT's, particularly the NTP's. The ENTJ's attitude is much more classically J-oriented, along the lines of "just get it done". The nice part about ENTJ's is that they do appreciate and value good input from others, but their motivation is goal-oriented and I sometimes see them glossing over "the human element" to achieve that, and also missing creative solutions in the process. 

Not coincidentally, ENTJ's have inevitably been the living embodiment for me of the stereotypical high achievers who neglect their families and have poor (absent might be a better term) relationships with their kids. They're often workaholics who are obsessed with professional success, and can be ruthless about it in terms of time spent. It's an Achilles heel, and I'm simply not capable of that level of obsession, nor would I want it although I live in wonder of it at times all the same. My current boss will take vacations and be sitting on the sand in a beach chair at a nice beach resort reading legal paperwork and sending me emails. I simply can't live like that - I have to completely detach from work and be away from it for a while to recharge. 

It's emblematic of the ENTJ obsession. It's their blessing and it's their curse. It can also make dealing with them a royal pain in the ass and hurt morale. Sometimes less is more as people just need to recharge and given more latitude to do their work their way.


----------



## MiGoreng

I know a few ENTJs and admire them all.

When I think of ENTJs, I think of goal-driven, brilliant people who everyone else seems to have trouble getting to know. But ENTJs don't really care, because they don't believe they're responsible for other people's emotions. They're responsible for their own, and if making other people happy doesn't make THEM happy, it's not their responsibility. They're blunt, mature, and know they're better than everyone else in the business world. They seem to have difficulty appreciating qualities of other types.

In a lot of ways they're brilliant, but I sometimes imagine the ENTJ looking back on life in their 80s and thinking it was lonely, even if they don't feel it now.


----------



## AmberJorr

Monkey King said:


> Would you mind explaining the possibilities portion. Call it what you want, but I've always thought of myself as a person who snatches the best opportunities in a pot of possibilities.



It's sort of hard to explain. My ENTJ is very good at seeing a very good way to get something done, and at snatching up good opportunities, but he often misses the hundreds of solutions that could also work or that could work better that I can just pull out of thin air. I can also automatically find the most efficient or most appropriate solution to problems as opposed to one that will work with enough applied force. My ENTJ feels that if he spent forever thinking about the perfect way to do something nothing would ever get done.

I don't know if that explains it very well or not. I blame Ni for being impossible to describe.


----------



## redmanXNTP

AmberJorr said:


> It's sort of hard to explain. My ENTJ is very good at seeing a very good way to get something done, and at snatching up good opportunities, but he often misses the hundreds of solutions that could also work or that could work better that I can just pull out of thin air. I can also automatically find the most efficient or most appropriate solution to problems as opposed to one that will work with enough applied force. My ENTJ feels that if he spent forever thinking about the perfect way to do something nothing would ever get done.
> 
> I don't know if that explains it very well or not. I blame Ni for being impossible to describe.


I understand and agree, and said it in so many words myself. 

"The dogs may bark, but the caravan rolls on." - ENTJ

"If we sailed there, I think we'd get there a lot faster and more efficiently than in a caravan." - NTP's


----------



## MegaTuxRacer

Monkey King said:


> This can be applied to how I treat my close relations too. Nailing me down, I've heard, is incredibly difficult. I suspect the project or person has to tickle something in the Ni and Fi system of values to do this.


Am I the only one who sees the double entendre?


----------



## Chaotic_Stupid

It really depends on the individual.

ExTJs can be bossy and annoying. Inferior Fi can lead to thembeing sore losers.

I think I've met two IRL. One is pretty cool, but I don't know himvery well.

The other can be pleasant in small doses, but their is always a risk she will try and startarguments with me. I'm much better atarguing than she is. She is an extremely sore loser. If I refuse to argue withher she gets very angry. I try to avoid her as much as possible.


----------



## elixare

mkeath said:


> This can be applied to how I treat my close relations too. Nailing me down, I've heard, is incredibly difficult. I suspect the project or person has to tickle something in the Ni and Fi system of values to do this.
> 
> 
> 
> Am I the only one who sees the double entendre?
Click to expand...

lmao I think I know what you're talking about....


----------



## Monkey King

mkeath said:


> Am I the only one who sees the double entendre?


pffft... lol


----------



## Coppertony

Pro: no bullshit, awesome guys to hang with (and troll)
Con: needs to chill the fuck out . . .


----------



## TheBoss

Xee said:


> In a lot of ways they're brilliant, but I sometimes imagine the ENTJ looking back on life in their 80s and thinking it was lonely, even if they don't feel it now.


Define lonely because, I think, anybody that introspectis and has enough rational to see cold facts, will realize one day, all humans are essentially alone through life. Social relationships of any kind are solitary enterprises to give us the illusion of togetherness.



AmberJorr said:


> My ENTJ feels that if he spent forever thinking about the perfect way to do something nothing would ever get done.


Exactly! 

We will keep thinking about tweaking it for the best, all the way through the project but, we are set on getting it going. 
After all, Like Pythagoras said: "Η Αρχή είναι το ήμισυ του παντός" (*beginning is the 50% of everything/all*). I think the English corresponding is "beginning is half the battle"?

I hope nobody thinks we start a project and don't optimize/change/improve it as we go...


----------



## Thorgar

TheBoss said:


> I hope nobody thinks we start a project and don't optimize/change/improve it as we go...


Of course you do. ENTJs are the masters of competent execution. You just may not spend much time up front thinking about whether it's the right project to begin with.


----------



## sly

ENTJ's

I have met one!

Nice person, we have an instant connect in the brain, my logic is valued by the ENTJ, I understand directly what the ENTJ means while others may feel offended, I feel relieved and happy. The ENTJ likes to bump off frustrations, silly stories and seems to trust me to the extend that she shared her love poetry with me(didn't even knew you ENTJ women were into that).

The ENTJ thinks of me as a reliable wallflower, but seems to be intimidated whenever I decide to speak up and dispute the indisputable. Intimidated is not the right word, more like a sign of respect, which I accept. We follow classes together, and what I noticed is that we are the only NT's in the class, the majority is SF due to the nature of the course. I like the ENTJ people, if I'd marry a wife, I'd make sure she is an ENTJ, exactly what I need, someone who thinks like a man, acts like a woman. I'm telling you ENTJ's this to show my respect, of all people I find ENTJ easy to get along with, they seem to appreciate dry humor very well as well, ENTJ's are good folk, although they have problems with ESFP, in which I have to go all diplomatic and solve problems between the two. According to life, 99% is ESFP, but that could be just me =/

From an INTP, with love.


----------



## The Proof

Kuthtuk said:


> we could talk on the same level of goofyness/intelect, witch is very rare for an ENTP. His manipulative ways with my inventiveness makes me think that if we put our minds together we can conquer the world. =D


there's a place for everyone in the grand scheme of things



TheBoss said:


> Define lonely because, I think, anybody that introspectis and has enough rational to see cold facts, will realize one day, all humans are essentially alone through life. Social relationships of any kind are solitary enterprises to give us the illusion of togetherness.


shut up! you are spoiling it! jk


----------



## theinterweb

My best friend is an ENTJ and he is... where do I begin. Smart, capable, strange, charming if he wants to be (especially with women), motivated, all about doing. Although, he tends to take a bit too much credit and likes to control too much sometimes. He also actively pumps me for ideas, but I don't mind it. They are interesting creatures, for sure.


----------



## Mr. Limpopo

I see them as louder INTJs

I like them.


----------



## Ce Jeu

Marshmallow Moo said:


> I can't stand ENTJs. And when I mean I can't stand ENTJs, I mean I can't stand how awesome they are. I love how they don't get offended at ANYTHING and are usually very open-minded yet stubborn and pragmatic at the same time. They are brave yet intelligent and I find that intoxicatingly attractive. Yet they also get on my nerves when they think so and so is out to get them because of such and such and the world is plotting to overthrow them. I got this all the time from my ENTJ friend. She's great, but I got annoyed with her sometimes because of how often she thought a person's comment was meant to secretly sabotage her. Other than that, they are great. (Sometimes a little exhausting. But great.)


Haha, it sounds like me. Paranoia much?


----------



## Ce Jeu

childofprodigy said:


> Don't think it's exactly 50:50 though. The ratio for men is 50:50, but for women it's 75:25 in favor of feelers, so even in the general population, there is slightly more feelers than thinkers.


 No wonder I have hard time with women.


----------



## Ce Jeu

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


----------



## Zerosum

On the whole they are alright.. I've met a few though.. That are... Quite... Strange...


----------



## Ce Jeu

Zerosum said:


> On the whole they are alright.. I've met a few though.. That are... Quite... Strange...


ENTP calling ENTJ strange. Hmm


----------



## MegaTuxRacer

Ce Jeu said:


> ENTP calling ENTJ strange. Hmm


We're not strange. Everyone else is. :wink:


----------



## Zerosum

Ce Jeu said:


> ENTP calling ENTJ strange. Hmm


lol I pride myself on being a little different.. Normality is simply boring! 

Honestly, I am so unrehearsed in the real world application of MBTI that I actually couldn't tell an ENTP from an ENTJ form an INFP... The the few i've met.. Were on the forum lol And I stand by my comments.. They out weirded me! But thats not a negative in my eyes


----------



## Ce Jeu

Zerosum said:


> lol I pride myself on being a little different.. Normality is simply boring!
> 
> Honestly, I am so unrehearsed in the real world application of MBTI that I actually couldn't tell an ENTP from an ENTJ form an INFP... The the few i've met.. Were on the forum lol And I stand by my comments.. They out weirded me! But thats not a negative in my eyes


I'm not good with MBTI either, at all. But, comparing myself to an ENTP girl I know, I think I'm much more verbal, blunt, out to get something and more of a risk-taker. Overall, I exude more anger in general which is a bad, bad, bad thing!


----------



## sanari

Mmmkay. Can we get back to the topic then? You took offense where none was intended. That is my only point.


----------



## Djanga

I have a question about ENTJs: Why is your forum so... barren? No one ever seems to post anything. It's odd, because even the other extrovert forums on here are usually pretty busy.


----------



## Einstein

Djanga said:


> I have a question about ENTJs: Why is your forum so... barren? No one ever seems to post anything. It's odd, because even the other extrovert forums on here are usually pretty busy.


It's because they are busy doing stuff and just don't have time. ENTJs are very busy people.


----------



## Abraxas

I really like ENTJs.

Other than INTJs, they seem like the only type that doesn't correct me when I say something politically incorrect. They only correct me when I'm metaphysically objectively wrong. (If you believe in metaphysical objectivity).

In my experience, they tend to say politically incorrect things the most in fact. It's just that they don't _suck at it_ like most INTJs. But I think that's just because we're not as extraverted, so we just don't always know the 'crowd-pleasing' way of saying what we are thinking.

It's not really a matter of lacking communication skills either. I can talk to any type just fine, and I don't really communicate with ENTJs any better than any other type. But I do have an easier time discussing specific things, in a specific way, which I find more relaxing and enjoyable - because I do not have to be so fucking self-conscious and word everything so _fucking_ nicely.


----------



## redmanXNTP

Djanga said:


> I have a question about ENTJs: Why is your forum so... barren? No one ever seems to post anything. It's odd, because even the other extrovert forums on here are usually pretty busy.


They're too busy flexing in front of the mirror. 

There are some good ENTJ's on this forum, but as I group it seems like a mutual admiration society operating at about the 8th grade level.


----------



## redmanXNTP

sanari said:


> Mmmkay. Can we get back to the topic then? You took offense where none was intended. That is my only point.


Maybe the point is that you offended where no offense was intended. 

You've admitted that communication isn't your best trait. Do you see a connection there?


----------



## Ngg

This discussing over who communicates more 'effectively' is stupid. For my part, I actually believe that intuitives dominants tend to communicate ideas extremely fast with one another. I have an easy time talking with my dad (INTP), but nobody understands my thoughts faster than my INTJ friend.
Also, xNTPs can be very efficient in their communication too. Since when are we concerned with 'niceties'? Give me a break. I think simplicity and straightforwardness in speech is an NT trait in general.


----------



## MuChApArAdOx

Interesting thread. In terms of communication i think the effective word here is " Angle ". I believe its easier to see what angle people are coming from first. If there is a breakdown in communication, its usually because people are coming from different angles, therefore leading to misunderstandings. I also have referred to this breakdown as different languages . This may not be the correct term to use, although when there is a breakdown in communication it feels as though we speak different languages. 

I understand exactly what @sanari was saying, not so much because i feel i understand her language, more because i feel like i know what angle she was coming from. Is this because i'm married to an INTJ so therefore i can understand their thought process, its possible. Then again, as an ENFP i can also understand clearly Ace face and her thought process.

Same as @Ace Face, i also saw which angle she is coming from. If two people are coming from and responding from the same angle, the communication won't likely have a breakdown. If not, it can be seen as a language barrier.

On topic, what i see of the ENTJ here, i really don't have an opinion. I haven't communicated with any enough to form any.


----------



## Vanitas

Djanga said:


> I have a question about ENTJs: Why is your forum so... barren? No one ever seems to post anything. It's odd, because even the other extrovert forums on here are usually pretty busy.


In my experience, when a matter comes up, I usually already know what to do/ how to deal with it, logically, so there's little point in asking other ENTJs/ people about what to do. Alternatively, it's about feelings and asking in ENTJ forum is ... well. I doubt asking would help me understanding it better, anyway. 

So there's not much to talk about.


----------



## sanari

redmanXNTP said:


> Maybe the point is that you offended where no offense was intended.
> 
> You've admitted that communication isn't your best trait. Do you see a connection there?


The horse is dead, Joe. Time to bury it.


----------



## redmanXNTP

sanari said:


> The horse is dead, Joe. Time to bury it.


That's what every jockey says when they've lost the race...


----------



## Thomas60

redmanXNTP said:


> That's what every jockey says when they've lost the race...


...usually the winning jockey gets a round of applause, but i'm not feeling that here.


----------



## Abraxas

Technically, I mean...

Extraverted thinking could almost directly translate _into_ spoken 'language' since what extraverted thinking really is, is the function that deals with external concepts, factors, and events...

So, you'd almost think it'd make ENTJs the best *stereotype* at communication in general, since their dominant function is pure extraverted conceptual communication. Also note, when I say 'best at communication in general' - I am in fact referring to their ability to encapsulate an intangible subjective concept formed by their intuition or senses and translate it into the language, behavior, and attitude of the current century.

ENFJs can do this really well also - but in the realm of the purely technical, I think ENTJs most definitely have a decisive advantage.


----------



## Ace Face

Thomas60 said:


> ...usually the winning jockey gets a round of applause, but i'm not feeling that here.


----------



## ImperiousNotion

My father is ENTJ and the relationship was an odd mix of great fun and great war. There were times when we would get along fine. We both had a bit of a sick sense of humor and liked to talk about intellectually heavy materials, but I cannot live with the guy. The fights were constant. I found him oppressive and neurotic and it was a very unhealthy situation. I am not saying that all of you are, as I am not certain I have ever met another one or not, but my experience so far has been sickening. I understand that my way of being was driving him as crazy as his was me, so I am not trying to put blame on him for the way things turned out, but it takes two to tango...


----------



## Yadids

Without my ENTJ sister and friend, I would be a lazy ass. So thanks for being around and saving me from procrastinating. 
Personally, as much as I hate your stubbornness, I love you guys.


----------



## Einstein

Yadids said:


> Personally, as much as I hate your stubbornness, I love you guys.


Their stubbornness is their best part though!


----------



## Abraxas

I just started watching 30 Rock and Alec's character 'Jack' is supposedly an ENTJ.

I say supposedly only to be fair, because I think he's _spot on_.

And, he's fucking funny. I love him in that show. Everything I admire about ENTJs, and lots of jokes?

_Awesome_.


----------



## Dayman

I like ENTJs, it is my second closest personality type I like their no nonsense attitude and their goal oriented style


----------



## Fawcon

I think I could be seized up as an ENTJ from the outside/at work if it wasn't for the fact that I don't get the most essential thing: POWER and power OVER someone else.

...Why? What meaning does it hold on its own? What am I missing? What do you do with it once you have achieved it? What's NEXT, I mean? More power? For what? And then? It probably sounds weird to you but it's just as weird to me. No pun intended below.

I get autonomy and freedom. But power over someone else is responsibility over someone else, intruding on THEIR integrity autonomy and freedom. Scary to me almost. Who needs or would even want that? How can you feel good about yourself intruding on someone through >power over< in a balancing act of YOUR wanted outcome and respect and empathy for others? For me that would possibly be more like an unwanted bi-effect while getting necessary work done. It's not something I would WANT. If I did I would probably start analysing my proneness for psychopathic tendencies... Ti-ing Te down.


----------



## MNiS

FacelessBeauty said:


> If I can deal with my ESTJ mother (who is the same way at work as she is at home) on a regular basis I'm sure I could handle it. Sometimes she accuses me of being more uptight, brutally honest, and rigid than she is. As for the laid back environment, when my mom lets loose it's the scariest thing I've ever seen. Because even when we're having leisure time she's always got schedules, deadlines, and things to do. Life is like a business to her.


Cool. Although I agree that laid back Te and Fe types are the best. Laid back Ti and Fi types are just lazy though.


----------



## Helios

MNiS said:


> Cool. Although I agree that laid back Te and Fe types are the best. Laid back Ti and Fi types are just lazy though.


They are. And when they let loose they always know how to have a good time. Some of them are also deeper than they're usually perceived. That's why I actually like Te doms and I get on with them extremely well despite their rigidness. I learn a lot of useful things from them. More than I would like to admit most times.


----------



## Boolean11

FacelessBeauty said:


> @that intj forum question.


Basically it's either a lot of people there are blessed with boring Ni that intuits crap after crap. Or there are too many mistypes who are after the stereotype. god damn that place now irritates me. Hence the ENTJ forum is the superior one, plus an anecdote to your wisdom question, I like some verse from the bible that goes like this:

"A wise man whose actually wise and all sorts... simply knows when to keep quite... and people will always notice so. But even when a fool remains quite he can be mistaken for a wise man too"


----------



## Helios

Boolean11 said:


> Basically it's either a lot of people there are blessed with boring Ni that intuits crap after crap. Or there are too many mistypes who are after the stereotype. god damn that place now irritates me. Hence the ENTJ forum is the superior one, plus an anecdote to your wisdom question, I like some verse from the bible that goes like this:
> 
> "A wise man whose actually wise and all sorts... simply knows when to keep quite... and people will always notice so. But even when a fool remains quite he can be mistaken for a wise man too"


Interesting.
As far as wisdom goes, I think this one which is accredited to Socrates is much more appropriate.
_I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing._


----------



## Boolean11

FacelessBeauty said:


> Interesting.
> As far as wisdom goes, I think this one which is accredited to Socrates is much more appropriate.
> _I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing._


We could go on with this, but I'd argue otherwise, nobody knows nothing but at the same time the truth is what we can both observe. A smart man is someone that can find that, and show his fellow men. Food for thought right there see people I'm the best man ever, ahh god this forum is killing me especially the intj one urghhh

_Boolean quote = true _


----------



## Helios

Boolean11 said:


> We could go on with this, but I'd argue otherwise, nobody knows nothing but at the same time the truth is what we can both observe. A smart man is someone that can find that, and show his fellow men. Food for thought right there see people I'm the best man ever, ahh god this forum is killing me especially the intj one urghhh
> 
> _Boolean quote = true _


And you've entirely missed the meaning of this quote my friend but we can argue this another time. :wink:


----------



## Boolean11

FacelessBeauty said:


> And you've entirely missed the meaning of this quote my friend but we can argue this another time. :wink:


I know your meaning its designed to encourage humility and less arrogance, but humility isn't how mountains are moved, wars are won etc.


----------



## MNiS

Boolean11 said:


> I know your meaning its designed to encourage humility and less arrogance, but humility isn't how mountains are moved, wars are won etc.


A rather fruitless endeavor, don't you think?


----------



## Helios

Boolean11 said:


> I know your meaning its designed to encourage humility and less arrogance, but humility isn't how mountains are moved, wars are won etc.


Not really. But whatever keeps the boat afloat.


----------



## boblikesoup

I view truth as finding all the noteworthy drivers in the world/other person and in my own perception of the situation, breaking it down to weights, then simplifying to core processes. I think the more models/paradigms you have of the world that you can look through makes the truth more accurate (biology, physical models, math, psychology, etc...) because if all you have is a hammer, every problem will look like a nail.


----------



## Konigsberg

I don't think I've ever met an ENTJ although I'd like to. It just seems very funny to me how they always think we have an ulterior motive. 

_Which we might or not have._


----------



## Boolean11

Konigsberg said:


> I don't think I've ever met an ENTJ although I'd like to. It just seems very funny to me how they always think we have an ulterior motive.
> 
> _Which we might or not have._


No you probably have, they are very easy to notice in unhealthy forms, they are usually that asshole whole tries to dominate everything without giving much thought to how other people feel. I sure you've seen them.


----------



## Dark Romantic

I like ENTJs, because a) they're rational thinkers, and b) they don't fuck around with nonsense. Very easy to have a conversation with an ENTJ, because they get at the meat of what you both want to know and talk about.


----------

