# Who is better at creating efficient business systems? xNTPs or xNTJs?



## Ambiguous (Aug 17, 2009)

So this is a question thats been on my mind a bit.

Which NT type is best at creating systems that eventually become automated (lets say for a business for example)?

I think both have their advantages. 

Te + Ni is a good combo
Ti + Ne is also a great combo


Obviously xNTJs would likely implement and execute the system much more effectively


But who would be better at creating one in the first place? 


I'm curious to hear your thoughts.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

It doesn't matter because the best system is the one that actually gets implemented. 

If there is a type that is generally "better at business" that doesn't matter either, because the variations intra-type aer so large that it is very possible that the single most successful businessman in the history of earth comes from the type statistically or theoretically least inclined to be good businessmen and vice versa.


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

Xntj's
Te is the organising and planning function. -ergo creating systems.
Ti-Ne are great problem solving tools, but Ti filters by a methods workability not 'efficiency', which is why they're typically on novel / one time projects. They'll find a way quicker, but not marshall pre-existing ways as intuitively.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Well I know I always strive for efficiency and that was actually the number one strength on my last performance review. "You're always trying to find a more efficient way to do things and it has benefited the department a lot on some of the things you implemented." @*DiamondDays* has a point. The best plan is the implemented plan. xNTJ's are better at that. Where I work it seems like nobody is really that efficiency minded. Most people will use buzzwords and in the box thinking for efficiency, but it doesn't seem like too many people really think outside the box to come up with innovative solutions.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

I would think that Ne is better for following trends and thinking ahead in business compared to Ni. 

I wile INTJ would probably make a better system I would think that INTP would be headed in more of the right direction with theres.


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## elixare (Aug 26, 2010)

xNTJs since xNTJs are more focused on goals/end-results/the bottom-line whereas xNTPs' minds tend wander off to useless subjects with little profit potential

Though I agree that xNTPs would probably be more innovative when their wandering off actually hits something which is why there are lots of ENTP entrepreneurs


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## grmpf (Mar 18, 2010)

I guess the NTJ's. NTP's love of complexity sometimes backfires when designing (and certainly implementing) systems.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

Ambiguous said:


> So this is a question thats been on my mind a bit.
> 
> Which NT type is best at creating systems that eventually become automated (lets say for a business for example)?
> 
> ...


I think NTP is better at creating them, at least if they are unconventional. Not good after that.
the NTJ seems to take approaches that have been tried before


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

NeedsNewNameNow said:


> I think NTP is better at creating them, at least if they are unconventional. Not good after that.
> the NTJ seems to take approaches that have been tried before


It's somewhat Darwinian.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

All I know is SP or SJ style of thinking really destroys any chance of actually implementing a bright idea.

SJ- "Well we already have this [inefficient] process that works. Why chance what has proven to work so long?"
SP- "Well we already have this [inefficient] process that works. If worse come to worse, we'll just short-sightedly shoot from the hip with some temporary bubblegum and shoestring solution that we'll allow to become permanent."


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

PowerShell said:


> SJ- "Well we already have this [inefficient] process that works. Why chance what has proven to work so long?"


The SJ requires a different approach to sell to, less tolerant of risk, you really need all sources of evidence to hand. Bright ideas need that restraint if your going to implement it into medium-large enterprise since change is not something larger corporations like coping with. It puts more ownus on the idea creator to embrace some of the risk of their idea.


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## Chris Samberg (May 13, 2013)

Ambiguous said:


> So this is a question thats been on my mind a bit.
> 
> Which NT type is best at creating systems that eventually become automated (lets say for a business for example)?
> 
> ...


I would definitely say that xNTP's would be great at the innovative side of re-creating better business processes because customers have changing desires that need to be adapted to (where the xxxP comes into play). xNTJ's would run the new business processes to make them even more efficient and well-organized and structured (from the xxxJ).

<------Marketing major


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Thomas60 said:


> The SJ requires a different approach to sell to, less tolerant of risk, you really need all sources of evidence to hand. Bright ideas need that restraint if your going to implement it into medium-large enterprise since change is not something larger corporations like coping with. It puts more ownus on the idea creator to embrace some of the risk of their idea.


I would say that works a decent amount of the time with SJ's but the biggest thing is getting them to identify a problem in the first place. Often times, where they are in the in the process of things. Where their part of the process is concerned, the good old way is good. Where your part of the process is concerned, it's broken. A good example would be operations vs project side in IT. Right now there's no clear handoff process other than, "here you go." Basically a project is dumped on the operations side of the house when the project side of the house feels it's ready to go to production. This basically allows them to wipe themselves clean of responsibility for when this system blows up. 

To them they feel the project is complete by their accords and the process of just dumping it over works great for them because they can basically walk away from it. From the operations side of the house, this process is broken. We're stuck with undocumented and unstable systems that blow up in our face daily. To make it worse, no secondary support structure is put in place and we spend a ton of time scrambling and trying to communicate with a ton of people to know who to go to to fix the underlying problem.

So in that process what is broken is part of the circle of the continuous improvement cycle as well as a support structure for problems that need more of a fix than an operational bandaid. When you propose a tracking system to track these issues that would more efficiently get the issue to the right person and gather the right information for them, it gets shot down. To them they don't see an issue because they don't see you scrambling and wasting a ton of time jumping through hoops to get more information as opposed to them just defining it prior to handing off the process. To them they think they did a heck of a job since they handed it off and that worked well for them since they can now walk away from it.

SP's are a whole different story. I think the sys admin manager is an ESTP or ESFP and he is by far the worst manager I've ever encountered.


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

Scelerat said:


> It's somewhat Darwinian.


why Darwinian. evolutionary theory only addresses ability to reproduce. social Darwinism is a bastardization of this truly great theory.


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## Scelerat (Oct 21, 2012)

Tea Path said:


> why Darwinian. evolutionary theory only addresses ability to reproduce. social Darwinism is a bastardization of this truly great theory.


I was referring to the fact that solutions to problems have a certain Darwinian quality, those who are successful reproduce and multiple, those that are not tend to die out unless they can thrive in specific circumstances without having to change.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

INTJs. My business partner is an INTJ and he NEVER misses out on the important details. I'm good with giving the ideas and giving a vague idea of what we should do but he's good with the details and he knows where we've missed out. 

Great business combo but the INTJ may get irked at the INTP for being lazy as fuck.


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## istinson (Sep 29, 2013)

My entj dad is incredibly gifted at understanding reality, taking action, and seeing the future consequences of current actions. He will be better at implementing a system in order to get something done, even if its not the best system.

As an entp myself, I'm better at seeing the many possible futures and at spotting the game-changers ahead of time. I'm more likely to find the product or process that needs to be implemented. I'll then see better methods of implementation, but only after the entj has taken the first step and bulldozed through the roadblocks.

I respect entjs quite a bit, even if I can't stand being around them.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

The business model has to fit the individuals strengths. 

ENTP needs to be where innovation matters. We can have a better sense about what other people are going to care about than most NTJ's. Even if an INTJ gathers data, they might skew it in favor of what *they* belive is good or quality or important (techie MBA friend of mine). If an ENTP has a skewed perspective on the data they got someone else to collect for them, the skew will be based on what sounds more exciting. 

An ENTJ needs to have an enterprise that can be well funded up-front because they will have to get cooperation from being the boss, signing the checks. They can deal with hard numbers, but buyers deal with intangibles. Sometimes the best people to have working for you need more than money. For example, someone willing to work a grunt job to keep the bills paid but they are dying to break new ground on the work they love vs someone who is telling you they are such a hard worker but the only real motivation is to get a paycheck. Either way can work, you just don't want an ENTJ in a jam where they need to play politics, and you don't want an ENTP maintaining a path where the trail has been blazed and maintaining the spreadsheet is what's left.

SJ's thrive where being a good citizen, offering reliable service (under promise over deliver), and long term networking schmoozing dinner parties or company picnics are what count, and sometimes it does count - a lot.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

the intj is more likely to be approved for a loan... 

the intp has greater potential for crowdsourcing.

if one is inclined to lean on darwinism... then it should also apply that intp are generally seen as less of a threat ... often confused for being shy or weak. certainly social oddness may appear counterproductive to society at times, but its easier to get beyond social awkwardness than extroverted arrogance... so for this reason the intp is a bit more likeable and marketable in our current social environment than the average intj stereotype.. others are more inclined to step up, help out and the average (stereotype) intp is more inclined (passive aggressive) to let them. 

long term odds are in favor for the ntj but the ntp can likely bank more on short term strategies and sociocultural trends... being pushed out or taking a backseat when other types move in for the kill or take over the project to help.

as to creating actual systems... it depends on the type of business.

we'll leave the pawn shops to you j types. ;p


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## Chaerephon (Apr 28, 2013)

The functions being discussed here are obviously Te, Ti, Ne, and Ni. Of course all play a specific role, especially when creating business systems, and understanding systems, but lets look at what they mean.

Te- Extroverted Thinking is characterized by efficient action, "objective" truths, planning, directing and inductive reasoning.

Ti - Introverted Thinking is characterized by logical consistency, process, analysis, and deductive reasoning.

Ne - Extroverted iNtuition is characterized by forecasting, drawing connections, brainstorming, seeing things in full breadth and since it is a P function, it is harder to describe. Same goes for Ni, especially since it is a Pi function.

Ni - Speaking of Introverted iNtuition, its character is a bit harder to state because it is both I and P. The best way for me to describe it is to contrast it against Ne. Ne is about seeing breadth, and Ni is about seeing in depth. It is very different since we are talking about the the inward focus of the libido. It is hard to describe it's essence.

So basically that leaves us with both sides to examine

XNTJ is an inductive reasoner who perceives in depth

XNTP is a deductive reasoner who perceives in breadth

Are either inherently bad when creating a business system? No, of course not. They both actually look pretty good.

Although I will say this, when it comes to creating business systems the approach taken by either is obviously different. I will vaguely outline them.

The XNTJ will inductively decide which process should be taken to which business system and start to go about it, while analyzing for errors, things that can be improved and watch out for anything that may force them to scrap the project. Of course this can be riskier, but when done correctly, it will create the system much quicker than the NTP, whose approach is outlined next, and thus be able to move on to new projects. Of course time is money.

On the other hand, the XNTP will first take in as many possibilities, if not all of them and start to deductively reason which ones will work and which ones will not. Which ones are more efficient and which are not. After a while they will only be left with the best of the best. So this method is much more reliable, but of course the NTP has less time to move onto other ventures.


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## KaoticVoodoo (Jul 29, 2013)

ENTP all the way. If I could have a job where I brainstormed all day the world would be a better place.


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