# What do Se-egos like about Ni-egos?



## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

I'm curious because, as an Ni-dom, the help that sensors offer seems so much more tangible than whatever Ni-egos give in return and I'm not sure what is it exactly that Se types see in us. My SEE friend cooks for me, helps in aesthetic matters (even if I may disagree with him), pushes me out of my lazyness, gives me new things to try out and even has a better memory than myself. My LSE dad can fix anything, come up with practical solutions to anything house-related and do work that requires great attention to detail. But I don't quite understand what I or any other Ni-dom does for them.


Shoot.


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## absyrd (Jun 1, 2013)

I think it might just be a natural compatibility given that you help them out with their inferior functions and they help you out with your inferior functions. Like a jigsaw puzzle, the pieces just fit.


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## Elyasis (Jan 4, 2012)

Ni types are masters of waiting. I guess we show them the importance of being patient. Something Se types aren't naturally suited to do. That's just based on the theory though. I'd like it if I knew what Se types thought in a more practical sense.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

Elyasis said:


> Ni types are masters of waiting. I guess we show them the importance of being patient. Something Se types aren't naturally suited to do. That's just based on the theory though. I'd like it if I knew what Se types thought in a more practical sense.


Yes, that's what I thought too. And it's tied to the "time" aspect of socionics Ni. It's just that when I look at my duals, or even semi-duals, they seem so much better adapted to life and capable of things than me. That's also probably related to I vs E.


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## Dyidia (May 28, 2010)

I don't know about Ni per se, but people tend to be drawn to me because I'm reflective. One of my more extroverted friends talks to me sometimes about how he's worried that he's too prideful maybe, and said something like "I usually don't think that much about myself [in a reflective way], and I like talking to you because you make me think about that."

When I get close to a person I tend to get concerned about where they're heading and whether or not what they're doing is actually taking them in the direction they want to go in, so I think that's what they pick up on and grow to like.

I also think willingness to go along with what someone else wants can be an appealing trait to Se-egos. I had a friend back in college who pretty much just dragged me out to various outings she thought would be fun to get into.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

Dying Acedia said:


> I don't know about Ni per se, but people tend to be drawn to me because I'm reflective. One of my more extroverted friends talks to me sometimes about how he's worried that he's too prideful maybe, and said something like "I usually don't think that much about myself [in a reflective way], and I like talking to you because you make me think about that."
> 
> When I get close to a person I tend to get concerned about where they're heading and whether or not what they're doing is actually taking them in the direction they want to go in, so I think that's what they pick up on and grow to like.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that. In my case, and I imagine it is the same for all Ni-doms, I take it for granted.



> I also think willingness to go along with what someone else wants can be an appealing trait to Se-egos. I had a friend back in college who pretty much just dragged me out to various outings she thought would be fun to get into.


Definitely. It's funny because I wouldn't expect someone to like that kind of passiveness. Well, it's not just passiveness. We are kind of chill really. It can actually be a problem in relations or in groups where there's a lack of an active partner. But I also notice it varies among Ni-doms and some have a bit more initiative and/or agressiveness to them.


I'm really eager to hear the opinion of the few Se-egos in this section, as well as maybe seeing how different it is for rational types.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> I'm really eager to hear the opinion of the few Se-egos in this section, as well as maybe seeing how different it is for rational types.


 @Amaterasu @Kintsugi @Diphenhydramine @itsme45

Maybe I forgot someone but at least they are evenly distributed.


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## Kazoo The Kid (May 26, 2013)

I've had a very conflicting amount of experiences with Ni-egos.

Younger ones are just really fucking annoying. They can have this really annoying superiority complex that only they can "see the truth" and everyone is blind and blah blah.

The more mature ones are extremely interesting. I think they offer more balanced insight. They are able to tell the difference of when something hidden needs to be said. And when its not important. They know when to say the right things and how to fuse the ideas they have and the symbols they see with reality. Like a less mature Ni user seems to be locked into looking at things that aren't there. While a more mature ones can see what isn't there._ And rip it out_. They are incredibly skilled in taking ideas and just forcing them into reality. Maybe with words, a plan, or really anything. And I just think thats really cool. They take something that seems impossible or something that makes no sense. And they make it seem like it was there all along.

I've also noticed they get over-stimulated really easy. All Ni types I know seem to not like really loud environment and are very easily started by any sort of brightness/sound.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kazoo said:


> Like a less mature Ni user seems to be locked into looking at things that aren't there.


I have to say that's quite perpetual to tertiary/HA types. They often extrapolate on something they think is there to the point of grandeur, but also fail to follow throw and it's like they seem to take some kind of weird shortcut which results in some very weird simplified symbolic mess that could potentially have been something meaningful but just isn't in its current state. It's a little like giving a piece of clay and tell them to sculpt something, but instead of resulting in a beautiful sculpture it just looks gaudy.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> I have to say that's quite perpetual to tertiary/HA types. They often extrapolate on something they think is there to the point of grandeur, but also fail to follow throw and it's like they seem to take some kind of weird shortcut which results in some very weird simplified symbolic mess that could potentially have been something meaningful but just isn't in its current state. It's a little like giving a piece of clay and tell them to sculpt something, but instead of resulting in a beautiful sculpture it just looks gaudy.


I've seen that in one fanfic that I read some time ago. In retrospect it had some inferior FeNi stuff that ruined the whole story, as the symbolism was really cheesy, with some delusions of grandeur and the story was a real symbolic mess that caused many facepalms while I read it. Seriously had to use brainbleach after reading it.


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## HighClassSavage (Nov 29, 2012)

One of my closest friends is an ILI. What I suppose I mainly get from his Ni is him telling me that what I'm doing or about to do is fucking pointless because of X. There have been plenty of times where he will explain to me why doing X is a waste of fucking time because then Y will follow and it would make more sense to wait until Z before doing X. 

Sometimes this results in me doing X anyways because, well, X can be done NOW and I don't want to wait for fucking Z, which then results in wasting time and energy and him angrily telling me "I told you so!". Then I respond with "Fuck it! Nothing can be done about it now", much to his annoyance. Generally, he'll want to calculate every step of action before proceeding, where he wants to ensure that everything gets done right the first time. By contrast, I just jump right in and start doing shit and figure out stuff as I go, caring little for fucking up. However, this is where I appreciate his Ni because sometimes I end up shooting myself in the foot or hitting brick walls due to my lack of foresight. 

I also appreciate his ability to clarify or provide insight by informing me of a different perspective on something. Most of the time this is expressed as X is pointless or Y has value because of Z or something along those lines. I think there would be a considerable difference between whether or not the Ni in an Ni-ego type will be valued depending on whether a specific person values Te or Fe. While I have no experience with an IEI, I feel that I would be less likely to appreciate their Ni in comparison to an ILI because often where my ILI friend and I see eye to eye is through Te and Fi. 

There's something else I wanted to add though I'm speaking more in line with JCF/MBTI cognitive functions rather than IMs. There are plenty of times where my ILI friend will actually be more observant than I and point out particular details that I had seen but not given much thought to. Also, there are times when I make associations and abstractions to other things that my ILI friend hadn't thought of. Just because he is an Ni-dom and myself an Se-dom does not mean that either of us are incapable of utilizing our inferior functions to the benefit of the other.


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## Tainted Streetlight (Jun 13, 2011)

Se is so quick and in the moment. It knows how to deal with things that need instant reactions. Ni doms, however have closely understood how things progress over time, so is very good at making decisions that are positive at every point down the line. Se really needs this.

Example: Se types self destruct when they can't see too long term. Se-dom takes advantage of a girl at a party because they didn't have enough Ni to see the long term results of their short-term acquisition.


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## AST (Oct 1, 2013)

I find that the benefit of being married to an Ni-ego type (EIE) is that she helps me see the world beyond what is empirically there. Adding the abstract and the spiritual to what I normally see (just the raw physical data). Her insight extends more than mine, as well, and really helps in our 8 - cp 6 interplay. 

This, of course, is not including the Fe-Ti factor.


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## Kazoo The Kid (May 26, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> I have to say that's quite perpetual to tertiary/HA types. They often extrapolate on something they think is there to the point of grandeur, but also fail to follow throw and it's like they seem to take some kind of weird shortcut which results in some very weird simplified symbolic mess that could potentially have been something meaningful but just isn't in its current state. It's a little like giving a piece of clay and tell them to sculpt something, but instead of resulting in a beautiful sculpture it just looks gaudy.


Okay you do this in alot of threads and I think its pretty annoying.

Just because someone has a a function that is dominant/ego DOES NOT mean they use it the way they should. Just because someone uses Fi unhealthy does not mean its CANNOT be their ego. The same with all functions.

ENTJs can have unhealthy Te. INFPs can have unhealthy Fi. Having unhealthy Ni does not AUTOMATICALLY make you an Se type.


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## Tainted Streetlight (Jun 13, 2011)

Kazoo said:


> ENTJs can have unhealthy Te. INFPs can have unhealthy Fi. Having unhealthy Ni does not AUTOMATICALLY make you an Se type.


In fact... arguably it might make you an Si type.


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## AST (Oct 1, 2013)

Kazoo said:


> Okay you do this in alot of threads and I think its pretty annoying.
> 
> Just because someone has a a function that is dominant/ego DOES NOT mean they use it the way they should. Just because someone uses Fi unhealthy does not mean its CANNOT be their ego. The same with all functions.
> 
> ENTJs can have unhealthy Te. INFPs can have unhealthy Fi. Having unhealthy Ni does not AUTOMATICALLY make you an Se type.


Do you even read?

All his post said was that if that function is in x position, it won't be used as skillfully as in someone who has it in a position where it's stronger. It has nothing to do whether it's healthy or not, which is arguably subjective. I could argue using Fe to manipulate a better position for yourself is a part of natural selection and the betterment of the human race. I could just as easily argue that that is morally corrupt. The jist of what ephemereality said is that a mobilizing Ni type won't use Ni as aptly as an ego Ni type, and then expounded upon what that looks like. Spot on, I might add, coming from a tertiary Ni user.


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## Kazoo The Kid (May 26, 2013)

AST said:


> Do you even read?
> 
> All his post said was that if that function is in x position, it won't be used as skillfully as in someone who has it in a position where it's stronger. It has nothing to do whether it's healthy or not, which is arguably subjective. I could argue using Fe to manipulate a better position for yourself is a part of natural selection and the betterment of the human race. I could just as easily argue that that is morally corrupt. The jist of what ephemereality said is that a mobilizing Ni type won't use Ni as aptly as an ego Ni type, and then expounded upon what that looks like. Spot on, I might add, coming from a tertiary Ni user.


Are you saying healthy is subjective but skillful is NOT subjective?

Because both are subjective. Do not say I'm using a subjective word...then argue back with subjectivity.

All functions are subjective....They go on. Inside your head. If your going to argue about subjectivity you might as well just dismiss the entire theory of cognitive functions.


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## AST (Oct 1, 2013)

Since you interpreted @_ephemereality_ as referring to "healthy" and "unhealthy" usage of functions, I responded with the aim of making two points.

#1. That isn't what he was even talking about.
#2. The notion of "healthy" and "unhealthy" usage of a function implies some standard of how a function "should" be used, which is a judgement I dismiss as being an objective truth, and only a personal opinion. Ergo, subjective.

Further, measuring the skill of a person's functional aptitude is a more general judgement based in several factors that, while cannot be concretely measured, is still abstractly understood. I.e, a skilled Ni user will be able to utilize Ni with greater strength, frequency, and accuracy than an unskilled Ni user.


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## Haydn (Sep 20, 2012)

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> Definitely. It's funny because I wouldn't expect someone to like that kind of passiveness. Well, it's not just passiveness. We are kind of chill really. It can actually be a problem in relations or in groups where there's a lack of an active partner. But I also notice it varies among Ni-doms and some have a bit more initiative and/or agressiveness to them.


I am Ni/Fe, I am in a relationship with with a SLE. I do not just go along with him at all...ever. I am just not a submissive type of person and deep down we both like & respect 'strong' people so I think he would find me a bit repulsive if I was just going along with everything he does.

I play the role of judge in our relationship. He has all these mostly impulsive urges and I examine them and determine for him what might be the consequence of each and which ones are safe to act on. He trusts me to keep him from causing too much damage to his life. I also act as a kind of moral compass for him when he has some sort of idea to do something shitty to someone else. I also develop most of our longer range plans. I plan and he does most of the execution of the plans if he is agreement with them and usually he is. I also open him up to more esoteric/spiritual types of interests.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kazoo said:


> Okay you do this in alot of threads and I think its pretty annoying.
> 
> Just because someone has a a function that is dominant/ego DOES NOT mean they use it the way they should. Just because someone uses Fi unhealthy does not mean its CANNOT be their ego. The same with all functions.
> 
> ENTJs can have unhealthy Te. INFPs can have unhealthy Fi. Having unhealthy Ni does not AUTOMATICALLY make you an Se type.


As @AST explains, health-unhealth is an independent factor of skill. You often see unhealthy EIEs and IEIs in fiction for example. We know this because they use their Ni visions in order to manipulate their social environment for their own gains. An example of this that comes to mind would be the female villain in the film Dark Shadows. She is clearly an unhealthy individual being obsessed with the main protagonist, but she is definitely not unskilled in her use of Ni and Fe. Not at all. She even manages to manipulate the main character into having sex with her even though he in fact initially refused. 

Now, what we can argue for her is that her use of Se and Ti are weak. Why is that? Her obsession. It's a manifestation of Se desire but it is shortsighted and narrow as she uses all of her resources to fuel her feelings towards the main character whereas an Se base would at this point have entirely given up on him and moved on as he is clearly not interested in her and she can't let go. Her Se desire has a childish and maniacal character to it. And logic, that doesn't even exist. Any person who didn't repress logic as much as she did would realize that what she was doing was utterly futile. 

You can argue with me that I'm wrong on this, fine, but if you do, how will you be able to discern a type from another type if skill is the same as health? 

In fact, all the theories including Jung, refer to the manifested skill of the functions in order to understand what kind of type we are actually talking about. If you have a problem with that you have a problem with the way the theories are formulated, not me. To paraphrase Jung, the inferior is childlike and primitive. It is the very opposite of being skilled. Jung even explicitly states so himself, when contrasting to the dominant:



> *Inferior Function
> *This term is used to denote the function that remains in arrear in the process of differentiation. For experience shows that it is hardly possible—owing to the inclemency of general conditions—for anyone to bring all his psychological functions to simultaneous development. The very conditions of society enforce a man to apply himself first and foremost to the differentiation of that function with which he is either most gifted by Nature, or which provides his most effective means for social success. Very frequently, indeed as a general rule, a man identifies himself more or less completely with the most favoured, hence the most developed, function. It is this circumstance which gives rise to psychological types. But, as a consequence of such a one-sided process of development, one or more functions necessarily remain backward in development. Such functions, therefore, may be fittingly termed 'inferior' in the psychological, though not in the psycho-pathological, sense, since *these retarded functions* are in no way morbid but merely backward as compared with the more favoured function. As a rule, therefore, the inferior function normally remains conscious, although in neurosis it lapses either partially or principally into the unconscious. For, inasmuch as too great a share of the libido is intercepted by the favoured function, the inferior function undergoes a regressive development, i.e. it returns to its earlier archaic state, therewith becoming incompatible with the conscious and favoured function. When a function that should normally be conscious relapses into the unconscious, the specific energy adhering to this function is also delivered over to the unconscious. A natural function, such as feeling, possesses its own inherent energy: it is a definitely organized living system, which, under no circumstances, can be wholly robbed of its energy.
> Through the unconscious condition of the inferior function, its energy-remainder is transferred into the unconscious; whereupon the unconscious becomes unnaturally activated. The result of such activity is a production of phantasy at a level corresponding with the archaic, submerged condition, to which the inferior function has now sunk. Hence an analytical release of such a function from the unconscious can take place only by retrieving those same unconscious phantasy-images which have come to life through the activation of the unconscious function. The process of making such phantasies conscious also brings the inferior function to consciousness, thus providing it with a new possibility of development.


Socionics in particular, is a theory that heavily relies upon the skill of use of a function/element in order to figure out someone's type in model A. If your Ni is shit you are not an Ni base type. That's how simple socionics typing actually is. To quote wikisocion on the super-id block:



> The third row of Model A (functions 5 and 6) is called the *Super-id block*. The subject will appreciate direct help to the Super-id, and sees tasks related to it as chores best left to others, but also as a source of frequent recreation. When feeling like there's something missing in his life, the subject will try to use his Super-id functions, but with limited effect, as it often comes off as overkill and is usually poorly developed. Only in the presence of complementary types can an individual let loose his child-like Super-id without fear of criticism. But ironically, although these types will maintain a good deal of their Super-id information in the atmosphere, they will at the same time doggedly encourage him to keep using his Ego functions, which in the end is the healthiest thing for him to do anyway.


Just to spell it out to you. Don't argue me, argue the theory.


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