# Fi vs. Social pressure



## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

Prada said:


> No, those are called assholes. Fi =/= not giving shit about others. Fi = being focused on own emotions and own morals. There is a reason why many heroes are IxFP. If Fi decides it needs to save the world it will do everything in its power to do so. Likewise, if Fi decides it needs to do everything in its powers to make others happy, it will as well. The difference between Fi and Fe is that Fi does whatever it considers right and Fe whatever it thinks the society/group considers right/needs. Likewise, smooth interaction can also be the end for Fi.
> 
> That being said, not caring what anyone thinks is very unhealthy and borderline narcissistic disorder.


You're 100% right. Just wanna elaborate on this.

Fi = focus on own feelings
Fe = focus on all feelings

When a Fi-user responds to social pressure it's not to suit others, but more as a self defense technique. When Fe-users respond to social pressure, it's to create harmony within a group. 

That's probably why Fi-users get grumpy and find it harder to give in when confronted with social pressure, where Fe-users will feel happy because they acknowledge the giving in as an achievement in itself as it's contributing to group harmony.


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## Toroidal (Apr 14, 2016)

Wiz said:


> I really struggle with norms and conventionality. I just don't understand it. Which makes me very awkward in certain social situations. *All* my close friends growing up (and now) are weak Fe-types or Fi-types, and now when I'm an adult it's a daily struggle.
> 
> I don't understand norms. What's the perfect amount of clean? What's Ok to serve at a dinner party? How often should I call old friends? What's Ok to say to people you just meet?
> 
> ...


sounds like a simple problem of inexperience. A well-developed ENFP needs to know what is acceptable and what is not so they know how far to push the boundary.


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## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

Toroidal said:


> sounds like a simple problem of inexperience. A well-developed ENFP needs to know what is acceptable and what is not so they know how far to push the boundary.


That's correct. Problem is that what's acceptable for me and my friends, are a lot different in the workplace where both my bosses are delusional christians.


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## Toroidal (Apr 14, 2016)

Wiz said:


> That's correct. Problem is that what's acceptable for me and my friends, are a lot different in the workplace where both my bosses are delusional christians.


could be worse, they could be muslim.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

DuCiel said:


> Okay, so one of the big headlines of Fi is authenticity and striving to 'be yourself' as much as possible.


Its not.



> Fi always wants to be genuine, from what I gather. I'd be interested to know how that manifests in Fi types who care about reputation and being popular, etc.


Not Fi.


> Insecurity and wanting to be liked are traits that don't have anything to do with personality and could happen to anyone and does happen to most teenagers. Just because Fi's want to be authentic doesn't mean they're completely immune to social pressures.


This is true, yes.



> So my curiosity is how do those types balance that, particularly when teenagers?


There is nothing to balance, you ar going by an erroneous definition of Fi.


> I'd love examples from the high school experience of Fi types, both in being themselves and in worrying.


Typical teenagers.

*What Fi is: *It is the subjective relationship between two carriers of potential or kinetic energy that shows the level of attraction (or repulsion) between one object or subject and another object or subject. Thanks to this IM element a person feels which objects attract him and which repel him. You might say that this perceptual element conveys information about objects' need or lack of need of each other and about the presence or absence of mutual or one-way needs. 

*TLTR:* its how you know what the relationship between you and everything else is.


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## Whatexists (Jul 26, 2015)

@castigat , actually your response was very insightful and reminded me of a lot of personal decisions and choices _I_ made during my teenage years that I forgot about. I think you're absolutely right about how we don't have a strong sense of "self" to stick to yet but like exploring options so we'll just go with the group decision if it doesn't seem immoral because we want to see if it's "us" or not.

@Prada , yeah, actually that's an interesting point. I'm not thinking about many scenarios in which I've noticed middle aged and even old men and women acting like teenagers, and vice versa, for a few minutes in regards to some random stimulus (and how easy it is to get them to behave like teenagers with the right attitude =p). It also reminds me of all the comments people have made to me and I've seen people make in other places when talking about ISFPs, that we seem to be lost in time and unable to recognize status differences from age in different people. Anyways, not formulated thoughts, but still. The idea that we tend to act similarly regardless of age and mostly just on the basis of our personal experience, where we're at at that moment, how healthy we are, etc.


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## TornadicX (Jan 7, 2015)

Prada said:


> No, those are called assholes. Fi =/= not giving shit about others. Fi = being focused on own emotions and own morals. There is a reason why many heroes are IxFP. If Fi decides it needs to save the world it will do everything in its power to do so. Likewise, if Fi decides it needs to do everything in its powers to make others happy, it will as well. The difference between Fi and Fe is that Fi does whatever it considers right and Fe whatever it thinks the society/group considers right/needs. Likewise, smooth interaction can also be the end for Fi.
> 
> That being said, not caring what anyone thinks is very unhealthy and borderline narcissistic disorder.


But really, if it's just an opinion others have why should someone care? I am dominant Ne but I have well developed Fi..and I've said things people disagreed with and I was bashed by groups of people..but I'm not going to change my tune simply because others "think" there's something wrong with it or they "feel" upset. I have agreat ability to be objective.. So, if I find something wrong with my line of reasoning/feeling about something, then I will go with the crowd.. Only if it turns out that way, naturally. I might apologize for offending, which is never my intention...but changing your tune because of society is for weak-minded folk... And while Fe is selfless, I think it's phony. You might think something is wrong but because you're pressured by society, you're going with the crowd? That's too weak & inauthentic. Fi users learn not to care about the unimportant things others think of them because they have to find a sense of peace to remain being authentic. Society is full of a bunch of intolerant self-righteous bullies who use peer pressure to get others on the same page as them...and as a whole are weak. So, as a Fi user, I have to detach from others' opinions at times. I can still care enough for you if you're sick, be respectable, and cordial if I disagree..but it doesn't mean I've got to kiss ass, either..or put my perspective aside just because "the majority rules" or has an opinion I might deem irrelevant..


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## TornadicX (Jan 7, 2015)

Arguments might be started because society expects the world to think, act, and feel as they do.. The majority wants to go to McDonalds but I want Burger King..either way someone will get their way, right? So I'm heading to Burger King...and we can discuss our adventures later. It doesn't have to be discord just because Fi users keep it real. I don't trust Fe because I need to know what's REALLY going on in your head and heart. I don't want you going to Burger King with me, if I know deep down you want McDs. Just keep it real, and go get a Big Mac!

Fi users might be the types to get a divorce whether kids are involved or not while Fe users will stay in a failing marriage full of arguments, cheating, & physical abuse for the sake of the kids or money..

I just appreciate Fi's ability to cut to the chase instead of throwing up smoke screens I guess!


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

starryeyedx said:


> Only if it turns out that way, naturally. I might apologize for offending, which is never my intention...but changing your tune because of society is for weak-minded folk... And while Fe is selfless, I think it's phony. You might think something is wrong but because you're pressured by society, you're going with the crowd? That's too weak & inauthentic.




Calling someone's _natural preference_ for feeling, "weak and inauthentic," is not cool.

I have noticed Fe-Fi clash pretty badly but invalidating the very fact that they feel a certain way is such a harmful thing to say to someone.


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## VoodooDolls (Jul 30, 2013)

guys, this is all plain bullshit jung didn't said that Fe types search actively for being popular, they just reshape their emotions to what is required in each situation, Fi builds a moral system and they check what's true for them thus deciding how to act upon circunstances.
Let's say extroverted functions are more superficial, take and throw while introverted functions keep building themselves through lifetime. Thus Fe is not about having a lot of friends and Fi about having little.
As much as some stereotypical Fe guys want to be kings of their football matches and shit, stereotypical Fi guys want to belong in these small urban tribes and shit like that. Just an example to illustrate what i mean.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@MeTheParrot

She was talking about popularity as the prevailing opinion or attitude towards something.


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## VoodooDolls (Jul 30, 2013)

Azalea said:


> @*MeTheParrot*
> 
> She was talking about popularity as the prevailing opinion or attitude towards something.


hey, what's up? ;D

well tbh i only read the title and popularity and random words as always  but anyway when are u up for another video session?


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

@MeTheParrot

Probably not anytime soon, because I don't have anything new to say.


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## bruh (Oct 27, 2015)

DuCiel said:


> Okay, so one of the big headlines of Fi is authenticity and striving to 'be yourself' as much as possible. Fi always wants to be genuine, from what I gather. I'd be interested to know how that manifests in Fi types who care about reputation and being popular, etc.
> 
> Insecurity and wanting to be liked are traits that don't have anything to do with personality and could happen to anyone and does happen to most teenagers. Just because Fi's want to be authentic doesn't mean they're completely immune to social pressures. So my curiosity is how do those types balance that, particularly when teenagers?
> 
> I'd love examples from the high school experience of Fi types, both in being themselves and in worrying.


I never thought about fitting in like the way you describe. I was more concerned about appearing different all thanks to my enneagram fixation. Even if I did so, Fitting in with a genre of people, then being able to show uniqueness was my concern. I thought of myself as different in all cases.
I had strong opinions as well. If something didn't fit me, I was quick to know what I wanted.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

DuCiel said:


> Okay, so one of the big headlines of Fi is authenticity and striving to 'be yourself' as much as possible. Fi always wants to be genuine, from what I gather. I'd be interested to know how that manifests in Fi types who care about reputation and being popular, etc.
> 
> Insecurity and wanting to be liked are traits that don't have anything to do with personality and could happen to anyone and does happen to most teenagers. Just because Fi's want to be authentic doesn't mean they're completely immune to social pressures. So my curiosity is how do those types balance that, particularly when teenagers?
> 
> I'd love examples from the high school experience of Fi types, both in being themselves and in worrying.


I wasn't good at exerting social pressure. Mostly experienced various tones of disappointed, disgusted and sickened when I was in my first high school which was private and full of failures.
In second high school, I was pretty isolated in the first class because I was still very traumatized after the last two classes of primary school and first high school.
I had difficulties getting into people and felt very lonely. 
I only found cool friends when I got into metal and met a lot of cool people who were friendly - it was when I was repeating a year in the second high school.
I always had hard time when people I talked to would invite other people to create a crowd and suddenly made the whole thing completely unenjoyable to me. Shifting from an enjoyable conversation to boring goofing around.

Well, I could say I obtained company by getting in a subculture that emphasised good looks, intelligence and sensitivity.
Though I still found it disappointing due to drugs and stuff like that.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

In high school I was generally well liked and popular - i have variety of different interests and can often find something relatable to every situation . I must admit that when thrown in a situation where I can't relate I'll feel extremely uncomfortable and can easily drift off to be on my own . I guess I'm lucky - my awkwardness or how I stand out as weird or different tend to attract /amuse people / so I didn't suffer much of social pressure. I do have a problem with isolating self when I feel like I can't relate to anyone though or if a conversation was to confuse me - but never to a point that create insecurity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

I haven't to date met an Intuitive Fi user who cares about popularity. That said, I also know that Intuitive Fi users find themselves in the spotlight without having to earn it, or strive for it, or want/need it.

Fi in sensors is very different, I do believe that sensors who use Fi enjoy popularity. ESFP for example, their Se is what makes them want to be front and center. ESFP are least like XNFP. Because they are Introverts ISFP are much more like NFP than ESFP. I don't think Fi cares at all about popularity and will become snarky and cranky with those who force us to be in any group that is considered popular..

The only form of popularity is from your true to your Individual taste and style. I personally didn't think I had much of either as I don't generally pay any attention to it. That said, I have often been told I have great taste in things and my personal style is very cool and trendy. The more I try to be more myself, the more people tend to want to copy me. I could tell you a very funny story right now about something related to this that happened as early as this weekend, the concept of people wanting to mimic me is sooo funny, but I will keep that lil tid bit to myself today.

End of the day Fi is very authentic and won't back down to please anyone who is fake. Fi wants to remain hidden as much as socially possible, Fi gets upset or frustrated when people force or pressure us into the spotlight. The only way one can become popular is to stay relevant, or be front and center. Both of these things go against Fi and Te for that matter. Social acceptance is mostly fake, I mean lets be real here. 9/10 time people are warm and friendly because this is socially acceptable, not because they are feeling the vibe. The difference between Fi and Fe is Fi won't wear that social mask to please, where Fe will wear it out and need a new one by the end of the day, ha !


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> End of the day Fi is very authentic and won't back down to please anyone who is fake. Fi wants to remain hidden as much as socially possible, Fi gets upset or frustrated when people force or pressure us into the spotlight. The only way one can become popular is to stay relevant, or be front and center. Both of these things go against Fi and Te for that matter. Social acceptance is mostly fake, I mean lets be real here. 9/10 time people are warm and friendly because this is socially acceptable, not because they are feeling the vibe. The difference between Fi and Fe is Fi won't wear that social mask to please, where Fe will wear it out and need a new one by the end of the day, ha !


Have you ever thought of the possibility that what you consider "fake" might be authentic for someone else, and visa versa?

Perspective, that's all.


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## Whatexists (Jul 26, 2015)

starryeyedx said:


> Arguments might be started because society expects the world to think, act, and feel as they do.. The majority wants to go to McDonalds but I want Burger King..either way someone will get their way, right? So I'm heading to Burger King...and we can discuss our adventures later. It doesn't have to be discord just because Fi users keep it real. I don't trust Fe because I need to know what's REALLY going on in your head and heart. I don't want you going to Burger King with me, if I know deep down you want McDs. Just keep it real, and go get a Big Mac!
> 
> Fi users might be the types to get a divorce whether kids are involved or not while Fe users will stay in a failing marriage full of arguments, cheating, & physical abuse for the sake of the kids or money..
> 
> I just appreciate Fi's ability to cut to the chase instead of throwing up smoke screens I guess!


I think you're understanding of Fe is deeply flawed and that that flaw is the result of placing values that, while applicable to you, are not applicable to other people onto them. I think you need to be far more understanding of other people and their points of view and the validity of approaching things in other ways. I think that you're posts were deeply offensive to Fe types in a really not cool way. I'd really prefer if you didn't associate your assholery with my dominate function, although I recognize that that opinion is common among some less understanding Fi-types. 

And, for whatever it's worth, as an Fi-dom, if there were kids involved I'd do whatever I possibly could to take care of the kids no matter how much personal sacrifice I had have to make, no matter how much abuse I had to suffer and regardless of the nature of that abuse, because the kids welfare is _always_ more important, and I, personally, think that doing something to make yourself happy at the expense of your kids welfare is a horrifically immoral and despicable thing to do. (of course, if you're spouse is abusive towards you than it probably isn't in the kids best interest to keep them around that person, but that wasn't a part of your line of reasoning so you don't get credit for it.)


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> End of the day Fi is very authentic and won't back down to please anyone who is fake. Fi wants to remain hidden as much as socially possible, Fi gets upset or frustrated when people force or pressure us into the spotlight. The only way one can become popular is to stay relevant, or be front and center. Both of these things go against Fi and Te for that matter. Social acceptance is mostly fake, I mean lets be real here. 9/10 time people are warm and friendly because this is socially acceptable, not because they are feeling the vibe. The difference between Fi and Fe is Fi won't wear that social mask to please, where Fe will wear it out and need a new one by the end of the day, ha !


I highly doubt that people are warm and friendly bc it's socially acceptable regardless being an Fi or fe user . Also anyone would be annoyed if forced into unwanted spotlight . I'm an Fi user and I'm quite social - and being well liked by others for my authenticity makes me happy - don't see how hiding away from being social or enjoy being within the spotlight make anyone more or less authentic 
Also highly doubt fe users are wearing social mask to please - from experience of interacting with many fe users / they're naturally friendly and value social harmony 



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## Monroe (May 13, 2016)

I think Fi users just intrinsically fear being unauthentic, unreal. It is something they struggle with. One time an INFP told me they liked my hat and I said 'yeah I think it makes me look artistic'. They got real tough about it and said 'a hat doesn't make you artistic, etc'. I was speaking lightly, but I gathered that they constantly scan to see if something isn't authentic and especially symbols of it. 

But really, I think it is that they fear being against themselves. I may do something that I wish I hadn't, etc., but I don't fear not being myself? Unreal? What I did was a part of myself, no matter if it was social pressure or something legitimately wrong. But I think Fi users just fear that self-split. I have my own issues with identity as a Fe user but it's not my first fear.


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

DuCiel said:


> Okay, so one of the big headlines of Fi is authenticity and striving to 'be yourself' as much as possible. Fi always wants to be genuine, from what I gather. I'd be interested to know how that manifests in Fi types who care about reputation and being popular, etc.
> 
> Insecurity and wanting to be liked are traits that don't have anything to do with personality and could happen to anyone and does happen to most teenagers. Just because Fi's want to be authentic doesn't mean they're completely immune to social pressures. So my curiosity is how do those types balance that, particularly when teenagers?
> 
> I'd love examples from the high school experience of Fi types, both in being themselves and in worrying.


Fi user here.

I care about reputation and being popular. I think reputation and being popular is human need, "Love/Belonging" on the pyramid of needs, you need it regardless of Fi/Fe.

Insecurity and wanting to be liked will influence your personality.
True, Fi is no more imune to social pressure than Fe is, they both care about reputation and being popular.

- I support for both Fi and Fe users to solve the problem with their insecuirty and need to meet everyone's expectations to be liked if it's unhealthy for you.
- Just be yourself, yes Fe users too, follow your own path, be nice, you can be yourself and be liked at the same time by the right people, and if someone comes with you then you've got a friend.
- If someone needs to you impress them to like you as friend then you've found the wrong friend. For they do not like you, they only like the advantage you bring, the impression that you need to impress them with. When that is gone they are gone for they don't care about you.
- Take the initative with people if you want for nothing bad can happen. You want to talk to them - fine talk to them. They say no - fine it's a no. They say yes - cool it's a yes. Going for psychological tricks just proves you need them conditioning to be your friend, and a conditioning friendship is not a true friendship but a business friendship. Also, not all people are judgmental bastards, only few of them are, most people are just as insecure as the guy next door, a good word should work.
- If it's for social fear mark that everyone has insecurities and everyone is probably thinking the same things as you.
Not sure how much this sense made, talks like this.. don't really have the specific words for them which sucks. I blame Shakespeare for not inventing more words.

-----

Fi and Fe as I see it, it's not about human mechanics _(insecuity, social expectations, need for approval, belonging, popularity, reputation, people)_, it's about the goal: Be yourself _(have your own values that you feel deep inside your heart they are right, they make you feel good in a noble way not in an overindlugence way, and represent you)_ - Fi or be like others - Fe.

From now on I will refer to: Be liked, be accepted, be popular, be respected etc as "belonging" to make the message short.

Fi wants to belong, and so does Fe. Everybody wants to belong, it's human need. The question is: how do you want to belong ?

Fi wants to belong for who he is. What makes sense to them as values are their values.
-> I have my X values and I need to belong with them who have the Y values, so the Fi user will kinda have a hard decision here - my values or their values. You can still work togehter with diffrent values, divesity is good, depeninding on what the values are, for example: I don't think it will work with someone who values being an asshole. I choose to follow my own values while being respectful and it worked great.

Fe user's on the other hand, the perceived values are their values _(not necessary people's opinions, but perceived values)_.
-> If enough people deem football important -> then football is important. And not from a "raw mechanical" point of view where you consider that football is important to those people to further benefit you in the way you deal with them. But simply Fe takes the value of football as sees it as an objecively good value. Fi doesn't.

So yeah, long story short. Fi users do experience all those kinds of things you mentioned, nobody likes being alone, people and the social nature of life is important, it's just that they will always have to find the balance between belonging and staying true to their values, because they don't adopt values but rather make them themselves through observation. Generally I think Fi users will try to find people with values they respect to fit in with so that both belonging and their values will be "marked". As I mentioned, for be be yourself but be respectful works great.

They might try to make themselves liked by people whose values they don't respect just for that need of belonging. But ultimately even if they succed I think they can't take it.

- Value for Fi is not something "objective" that if most people like "Z" I automatically like Z too because fashon.
Such thing is meaningless for a Fi user.
- They just find their own passions _(things that they are passinate about, are important to them)_ and views of the world, and think everyone else have thier own passions, thus there comes different values of different people that coexist with each other.
- Occasionally a group of 2 or more people will have similar values, which is great for communication, yet similar value will not mean exactly all values 100% which is also great.
- For according to Fi users, different values are great for improvement, humanity cannot evolve without different values, if we'd all be the same then eventually the world will be stuck in a rut for there will be nobody to come up with original thought.
- According to Fi differences are both necessary for evolution and beautiful for it makes us who we are. Fe users might be ok with any enviroment as long as they observe the values and adapt to them. But for Fi users, if they see an enviroment with a value that they would might perceive as evil, even if it's dominant and makes sense to a lot more people, they will probably blend in just on the suface while following their own values.
- According to Fe having the same values is necessary for armony for differences of values will often bring conflict. They are both right in different circumstances.

Sorry for typos.



Monroe said:


> I think Fi users just intrinsically fear being unauthentic, unreal. It is something they struggle with. One time an INFP told me they liked my hat and I said 'yeah I think it makes me look artistic'. They got real tough about it and said 'a hat doesn't make you artistic, etc'. I was speaking lightly, but I gathered that they constantly scan to see if something isn't authentic and especially symbols of it.
> 
> But really, I think it is that they fear being against themselves. I may do something that I wish I hadn't, etc., but I don't fear not being myself? Unreal? What I did was a part of myself, no matter if it was social pressure or something legitimately wrong. But I think Fi users just fear that self-split. I have my own issues with identity as a Fe user but it's not my first fear.


Umm... I don't fear being myself...

rather, I dislike doing things out of myself.

By myself I mean my values. Every Fi users will have a different definition for it but ultimately they will have the same meaning - what is important to the subject.

I think the reason you perceived Fi as "being afraid of not being yourself" is.. Fe!

More exactly perceiving his situation through your won lens.
- For you it may not be a problem if you're pushed to do something you don't like out of social pressure, you might actually part like it due to the social validation of the social pressure element.
- For a Fi user it's not like that. If a Fi user is pushed to do something out of social pressure he won't like it, period. To the Fi user the social validation means very little when you do something to don't like. 
- Because as mentioned they don't just take the enviroment and adopt values in there, but rather they observe the values in the enviroment and then they filter those values through their already existant values thus make new personal values for the given subject/or situation. Whether these values are in alignment to the enviroment it matter little to them, all that matters is that the values are important to them. So they will always have that unfulfiled value there in the case of doing something they don't like just for the crowd. They kind of need to "justify" their values to themselves not to follow the values they observed in the enviroment.
- I may have made Fi users sound like aliens, yes they make new values, but sometimes these values may be in alignment with the enviroment, sometimes it may be not, that doesn't mean they are evil in either case. There are evil Fi users with evil values, but then again, there are evil Fe users with evil values too.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Sun Daeva said:


> Have you ever thought of the possibility that what you consider "fake" might be authentic for someone else, and visa versa?
> 
> Perspective, that's all.


I don't have to think about it, all I have to do is ask those who work in customer service, now customer service stretches out to hundreds of jobs. It is part of their job duty to be nice, to be friendly to smile and act like happy little chaps every minute of everyday. So yeah, they aren't feeling it 9/10 times, they are paid to feel it , forced to be all happy when they are being fake, totally totally fake.( are you grasping that I confirmed this ) So don't say it as if I haven't a clue what I'm talking about. Fe is all about happy happy happy chappy, I see through them though, I know when they would rather be telling people to go fuck themselves. Take your happy chappy smile and get lost.


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## Monroe (May 13, 2016)

@Dezir 

Oh no, I didn't mean you fear being yourself. You fear not being yourself--but we got on that track later. And no, because I'm a Ti-dom. I don't like being controlled, under very many circumstances? If I see it happening, I start to backtrack away from it because it's a 'I won't let you control me' thing. The combo of Fe-Ti has it's own balance. It can lock you down on things because Ti fights control a lot. 

But agree, social validation doesn't mean much to a Fi user as they do have to live with their own values being violated after the fact. I am with you there. 

But one point I may add is that everyone is going to have a hard time to convince a Fe user their entirely for a social group feeling. It's because ironically, if you are talking to a Western based Fe user, they see group-think as 'bad' inherently because of --Western values of Individualism. Of course, it varies as with culture, to both Fi and Fe users, as throughout the word. But I can't ever agree I go with social validation entirely because I have an idea that social validation is a problem in itself. Which is a Fe thing. 

Yeah, also the Ti kickback. The only thing is I could say that it takes me a while to find the value. I have to dig, dig, dig. And I'm cautious because I don't like to make mistakes on things I do, not really. I want to make sure it is 'right' and I'm not lost in the forest for the trees things of people. I think a Fi-user may have more things they think about because they are building the invidiual value system. They may be quicker to find it, spot it, use it. 

But the only let's say, fictional characters that are identified as Fi, are the ones asking questions of 'am I a bad person' and wrestling with it. They are more ..........trying to navigate is what I meant, maybe a better word for it.


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> I don't have to think about it, all I have to do is ask those who work in customer service, now customer service stretches out to hundreds of jobs. It is part of their job duty to be nice, to be friendly to smile and act like happy little chaps every minute of everyday. So yeah, they aren't feeling it 9/10 times, they are paid to feel it , forced to be all happy when they are being fake, totally totally fake.( are you grasping that I confirmed this ) So don't say it as if I haven't a clue what I'm talking about. Fe is all about happy happy happy chappy, I see through them though, I know when they would rather be telling people to go fuck themselves. Take your happy chappy smile and get lost.


lol

Fe =/= customer service


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## TheGoddessLuna (Jun 12, 2016)

Try not to be a conformist.

I did and it took forever to find out who I was again. In fact, I didn't really do anything. My friend did all the work somehow..


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

I don't "strive" to be myself. There is no striving. I am always myself - how could I not be myself? Everything I do is me. It is not like an alien invades my body and makes me do stuff (makes mental note to use that as an excuse in the future).

If anything, I'd have to strive to NOT be myself, which what some social pressures occasionally feel like - a push for me to be something else - something, er, "fake".

However, I mostly resent social pressures when there is judgment over stuff that has no real moral value, IMO. It is just pushing conformity for its own sake or it is a really narrow interpretation which assumes negative things. 

It goes beyond me, then. I feel this as threat for all of humanity. It's like I blow the situation into some dystopian future where we all have bowl haircuts and wear grey jumpsuits and follow the same schedule to produce bricks for the ant queen's palace.

It feels like if I don't dig in my heels or speak up, then people will get trampled. Not just me - but everyone, because I know I am almost never the sole dissenter. I can often pick up on people's internal states, noting the discrepancy between what they choose to display and "how they really feel". This means I can get a sense when I am not the only one feeling something that goes against the tide, or at the very least, I tend to broach a topic carefully to test the water and see if I am indeed not alone in the feeling.

Don't take this to mean I am constantly battling people around me, looking for ways to question the status quo or that I don't have a basic human need to be liked and have connections with others. Connections with others is hugely important to me. I think like most INFPs, I am very grumpy when without any significant, genuine human connections.

However, relationships feel hollow and meaningless if they are not founded on a degree of understanding and acceptance of who someone truly is. If someone likes me for a facade, of what value is that?

This doesn't mean I don't grow, change, adapt, compromise, etc. I am generally a pretty easy-going person who will adjust so long as a deeper value is not violated. A lot of what will ruffle my feathers is hard to pinpoint. It is often more of an undercurrent in a social atmosphere than anything explicit. The unspoken rules and expectations are hardest for me, first because I can be oblivious to them (since they often are not moral issues, and so they don't register to me as something that must be abided by), and second because they often hold no real value to me, merely being a preference some people agreed on to make a standard for everyone.

I guess the bottom line is distinguishing between preferences and things that have true moral value. Social pressures which push preferences as moral values are essentially saying some people's preferences are more important than others. It is not just about guarding my own identity then, but the principle of everyone having their own identity. The way I assert this is just continuing to be me, which is very easy and requires no "striving".


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

*Notice: this thread has been closed for Moderator review. 

Thanks for your cooperation.*


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