# INFP vs INTP: A lovers quarrel



## abigaleblues (Apr 11, 2012)

INFP vs INTP: A lovers quarrel


I'm an INFP and my long term partner is an INTP. While we typically get along very well and share many interests, we aren't the best at conflict. He's Ti dominant and I'm Fi dominant, so you can see where our importance lies. However, my weak spot being Te and his being Fe, we are both demanding things from each other that are rather difficult. I tell him to "care more!" and he tells me to calm down and THINK.


As you could imagine, it gets a bit frustrating.


So my question is: How do we get on the same page? Anybody have any good advice? Videos? Personal experience? (doesn't have to be the same type as us, of course, but perhaps another comparative couple). I have read about comparative relations, which we supposedly are, but the description makes us sound doomed! 


I'm hoping that there is such a thing as compromise in the MBTI world, otherwise we might just drive each other crazy.


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

The solution seems simple enough, try to see things in his perspective and hopefully hell do the same. See how things work, and I'd u feel this is really a problem, maybe you should find someone else


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm no love doctor, but this one seems pretty simple: talk.

Talk to him about what situations you need him to just listen or provide support/affirmation and ask him in what situations where he'd prefer if you were to think/come up with a solution together. Vocalize each others needs. That is assuming both want to make the other happy. It won't work out perfectly 100% of the time and you may have to remind each other if they forgot what the other is needing in that situation, but it should work enough times that it is not to big of an issue. 

That help? No?


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## abigaleblues (Apr 11, 2012)

kudi said:


> I'm no love doctor, but this one seems pretty simple: talk.
> 
> Talk to him about what situations you need him to just listen or provide support/affirmation and ask him in what situations where he'd prefer if you were to think/come up with a solution together. Vocalize each others needs. That is assuming both want to make the other happy. It won't work out perfectly 100% of the time and you may have to remind each other if they forgot what the other is needing in that situation, but it should work enough times that it is not to big of an issue.
> 
> That help? No?


Yeah that helps. Lately the communication has felt very one-sided. Like I'm doing all the talking.


I'm a mixed bag of emotions. When I feel like there is a problem, I want to discuss it. Just when I feel like we are getting to the crux of the issue, he will often say something flippant like "we're good now, yeah?" which is basically code for "can we please stop talking about this now?"


I just worry that I'm wasting my time on a relationship that will never go anywhere. I validate his thoughts constantly. I taught myself how to like politics, science-fiction, religion, all of the subjects he is greatly interested in. He's a thinker, can't blame him lol. But after all these years he's still pretty inflexible about discussing emotions. I just wish there was some way I could get him to empathize. 


But yes, I suppose just talking is the only method that has been slightly effective so far. I keep thinking that I will find the perfect phrase and a light bulb will go off in his head. No luck so far.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

abigaleblues said:


> I tell him to "care more!" and he tells me to calm down and THINK.


OH MY GOD. THIS. My INFP is always like, "That's your problem! You don't care!" Heh. Anyway. 

I'm a female INTP with a male INFP so the gender differences will be there, but here are a few things I suggest you keep in mind: 

If you're sure he's an INTP, I'm not sure him asking if you're good is actually a hidden code. He might legitimately be asking. We don't really do "secret codes" or whatever. 

You don't have to like what he likes. You can appreciate what he likes... but if you're not into his interests, don't fake it. That will make him lose respect for you and it will actually be harder to keep a relationship working. Like... I have all kinds of weird interests that my INFP doesn't share. That's okay. Focus on your common interests, not the ones you two don't share. 

_Why_ do you want him to discuss emotions? Are you trying to accomplish something? If there's no point to the discussion, he probably will be unresponsive because there's no REASON. When dealing with an INTP, _any_ INTP, _always_ try to explain your actions logically. That's usually a good way to get us to cooperate. 

There's not going to be a magic phrase that's going to get him to magically understand. And he probably feels the same way about you. I also suggest trying to keep in mind you likely have different goals when you're discussing things. An example, when my INFP and I argue about something, he wants to win the argument. I want to solve the problem. It took us three years to realise that. I don't use Fi, so sometimes Fi doms will come up with things I never even thought of and it's the same with him and Ti. He understands Ti less than I do Fi, because I research this stuff and he doesn't. 

You could try researching dominant Ti and inferior Fe, and also trying to connect with him through Ne. 

Hopefully I helped some. Being an INTP, I kind of see where he's coming from too so feel free to talk to me about any of this.


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## abigaleblues (Apr 11, 2012)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> OH MY GOD. THIS. My INFP is always like, "That's your problem! You don't care!" Heh. Anyway.
> 
> I'm a female INTP with a male INFP so the gender differences will be there, but here are a few things I suggest you keep in mind:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. I definitely think that we both utilize Ne and can have long, meaningful (at least to us) conversations for hours. I've never met anyone whom I can talk to so openly and honestly, plus we have loads in common. I don't feel like I've ever feigned liking things that interest him, but this is sort of slippery slope for me, since I love to learn new things. I think that since both of us are relatively well-developed in our functions (he also likes to study MBTI, and we talk about it often) that we can see where we are coming from, but it doesn't make it any easier.


Perhaps with me being female INFP, the only thing I have tried to do is make him a touch more considerate with feelings. I actually used to verbalize the words "care more!" when we first started dating. I've learned that he actually cares quite a great deal, just doesn't really express it like I do. I definitely don't say that anymore. I know he cares.


Like I've mentioned before, perhaps when I'm feeling a strong need to commiserate I should just find one of my NF friends. I do think it is interesting that you too are in an INFP/INTP relationship, but with the genders reversed. Do you think it gives you more of balance in a way? Just curious. Thanks again for the feedback.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

abigaleblues said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I definitely think that we both utilize Ne and can have long, meaningful (at least to us) conversations for hours. I've never met anyone whom I can talk to so openly and honestly, plus we have loads in common. I don't feel like I've ever feigned liking things that interest him, but this is sort of slippery slope for me, since I love to learn new things. I think that since both of us are relatively well-developed in our functions (he also likes to study MBTI, and we talk about it often) that we can see where we are coming from, but it doesn't make it any easier.
> 
> 
> Perhaps with me being female INFP, the only thing I have tried to do is make him a touch more considerate with feelings. I actually used to verbalize the words "care more!" when we first started dating. I've learned that he actually cares quite a great deal, just doesn't really express it like I do. I definitely don't say that anymore. I know he cares.
> ...


It's really important for you to learn the way your INTP shows he cares. We don't show it in a typical way; that's been a problem in my relationship too. 

If you feel the need to commiserate, I'd say it might be easier on you emotionally to seek out a fellow NF. Sometimes my INFP gets really upset about the state of the world, for instance, and he just goes on and on and I get where he's coming from and agree with him, but I don't feel it so deeply. We don't really discuss his day-to-day feelings (or mine either) so I don't know what to advise you about on that subject. But yeah, if you're looking for an emotional discussion or emotional intimacy or something like that, don't go to an INTP. If you want a solution, go to an INTP. If you just want _him _to listen, tell him that at first. Be like, "Hey, I have something that I really want to talk about but I just need a listening ear, if you could try to do that for me." It's HARD for us not to default to giving a solution, and it's probably doubly hard on him being a man. 

The gender reversal probably does give us more balance, but I'm not very conventionally feminine to begin with. He's somewhat conventionally masculine. I'm not one to default to gender when it comes to issues, but it is a factor you have to notice. 

Sorry this is so long! I really like giving INTP/INFP relationship advice!


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## princessJAY (May 25, 2011)

abigaleblues said:


> I'm a mixed bag of emotions. When I feel like there is a problem, *I want to discuss it. *Just when I feel like we are getting to the crux of the issue, *he will often say something flippant *like "we're good now, yeah?" which is basically code for "can we please stop talking about this now?"
> 
> I just worry that I'm wasting my time on a relationship that will never go anywhere. *I validate his thoughts constantly*. I taught myself how to like politics, science-fiction, religion, all of the subjects he is greatly interested in. He's a thinker, can't blame him lol. But after all these years *he's still pretty inflexible about discussing emotions*. I just wish there was some way I could get him to empathize.


People are much more than their cognitive functions. The ability to compromise has _nothing_ to do with cognitive styles, but our mental /emotional maturity, willingness to be open-minded, understanding, and effort. So long as you both care and are willing to communicate, you already have 80% of what makes relationships work.

The bolded parts, though, point out the biggest differences between Fi and Ti: 

Well-developed Ti needs no validation. It is an internal system of observations /conclusions /principles and _feels _impersonal even to its user. Your efforts, while great for fun conversations, probably didn't register as an attempt to convey your _love _to him_._ Therefore, you may feel like there is an imbalance of effort where he sees none. This may be a miscommunication worth discussing.

Further, Ti-users tend not to talk about feelings because, to be honest, ours are pretty simple (not the same as shallow). There just isn't enough nuance to discuss or analyze in detail. I have very well-developed Fe, but even my best efforts sound flippant compared to Fi-users, whose emotional expression can awe me with its depth & sincerity. Talking about everyone's feelings at length makes me impatient, probably equivalent to how you might feel if you just want to say "This is one delicious sandwich!" but he wants have a whole intense debate about the various chemical components and how they impact a variety of human senses.

Ti love is expressed as mental /intellectual interest. When I like someone, everything about them becomes potential topics for research. I now know lots about psychological attachment theories and macro-economies of Mexico (he was Mexican and I was intrigued by how growing up in that environment might have shaped his personality). Super-dry and definitely not the warm fuzzies, right? But the urge to research was triggered by feelings, and also because he was constantly in my thoughts. So if you ever notice that he has lots of seemingly-impersonal information related to something about you, your background, culture, whatever, please take it as the best expression of his love.

But you have legitimate needs too, and it's not fair for him to ask you to calm down and think (them's the fightin words) if you are upset. He needs to respect that you are a different person, with a different but equally valid way of seeing the world, and you should definitely bring this point up when you are both relaxed and stress-free.


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## nrcoggin (Mar 18, 2012)

I as an INTP I think it is important for him to understand where you are coming from. If he isn't familiar with MBTI have him study your traits and he may have a new respect for NF's. I would also recomend if things start getting heated maybe take a minute to collect your thoughts or write them down and come back to the topic later. Good luck.


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## Rakshasa (May 26, 2012)

You should do more research on INTPs outside of a relationship. It seems, at face value, that it would be as easy for him to learn to use more feeling as it was for you to use more thinking. However, apart from that you must also take into account conditioning. I'm sure that you've been told for much of your life to calm down and think, yes? You never felt like you should just stop thinking altogether. There is nothing cruel or insidious about thinking, is there? The same cannot be said for feeling. INTPs, especially in their youth, have made it a habit to struggle against their feelings. It's something that has corrupted their goals, and altered their perceptions. INTPs have also been told to calm down and think, usually by their own hand as well. Anything that corrupts logic is seen as an enemy, in our larval state. We struggle against it. So in this sense you've had much more practice thinking, then he has feeling. 
Talking is a good way to do this. You can't really tell him to feel more, you will have to work with him in order to develop this function in a more healthy manner, than the all too common cycle of repression and explosion. Talk. Ask him to try and develope his feelings, don't tell him to feel. It's not that simple. Let him know that he is only seeing one side of an issue, he is looking at it subjectively, and missing out on important data. At least, data that is important to you, and your happiness. Be careful, however that you don't push him. He will resent your for it. If you're not willing to do this, then maybe the relationship isn't that important to you. If he's not willing, then you know if you're wasting your time or not. Make sure to give him time to warm up to the idea, though.
You can't confine somebody to their MBTI, though. You'll never meet the person.


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## abigaleblues (Apr 11, 2012)

princessJAY said:


> People are much more than their cognitive functions. The ability to compromise has _nothing_ to do with cognitive styles, but our mental /emotional maturity, willingness to be open-minded, understanding, and effort. So long as you both care and are willing to communicate, you already have 80% of what makes relationships work.
> 
> The bolded parts, though, point out the biggest differences between Fi and Ti:
> 
> ...


I appreciate the thoughtful answer. And of course people are more than their functions. I think that in a way, learning about cognitive functions and this theory in particular, that it is very helpful, practical information. But everyone is their own person. Like you say, if Ti users have simple feelings, then I would say my boyfriend is different in that way. His feelings seem really deep and rich to me. If you asked him, his initial reaction may be to say they are simple too, but I know him better than anyone else, and his feelings are very real and important to me. Maybe I'm just biased because he is so deep and complex in so many ways. I can't imagine anything simple about his feelings.


I understand not needing a thought validated. Maybe I worded that wrong. I think what I was going for was simply that I really listen to him. I might not be as interested in his topics of interest (particularly science-fiction, just not really my thing) but I do listen to him. His thoughts are very important to me.


But in the end, I do think that communication is key. Hell, I have a degree in it, I should at least be able to be somewhat effective! When I break it down, I just think that his listening skills could improve when it comes to my feelings. I was in quite a state when I wrote the initial thread, and my apologies for coming off a bit dramatic.


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## abigaleblues (Apr 11, 2012)

Sometimes, as my signature would suggest, I hate that my boyfriend and I have to use language to communicate. I wish we could just converge minds to create this sort of super feeling and thinking sensation, just to be on the same page. A meeting of the minds if you will.


And I totally understand how feelings are the enemy of logic. I get that too. Sometimes I want to roll my Fi into a ball and throw it in the trash so I can just get some work done! And it's strange, since when I'm at work, I'm like a machine. I don't think about my personal life. The only thing that matters is efficiency. I work with a lot of data though, and I need to use my Ti a lot. I'll admit, it can be draining.


And perhaps it's the same draining experience he gets when he uses he feelings. But I use Ti for a living, so I know he *can* do it. 


We've been talking about it a lot lately, though. So no worries, I'm not complaining endlessly to a forum without mentioning any of it to him.


But I really appreciate all the input. It makes me feel better about the situation.


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## princessJAY (May 25, 2011)

abigaleblues said:


> I appreciate the thoughtful answer. And of course people are more than their functions. I think that in a way, learning about cognitive functions and this theory in particular, that it is very helpful, practical information. But everyone is their own person. Like you say, if Ti users have simple feelings, then I would say my boyfriend is different in that way. *His feelings seem really deep and rich to me*. *If you asked him, his initial reaction may be to say they are simple too, *but I know him better than anyone else, and his feelings are very real and important to me. Maybe I'm just biased because he is so deep and complex in so many ways. I can't imagine anything simple about his feelings.
> 
> But in the end, I do think that communication is key. Hell, I have a degree in it, I should at least be able to be somewhat effective! When I break it down, I just think that *his listening skills could improve *when it comes to my feelings. I was in quite a state when I wrote the initial thread, and my apologies for coming off a bit dramatic.





> And I totally understand how feelings are the enemy of logic. I get that too. Sometimes I want to roll my Fi into a ball and throw it in the trash so I can just get some work done! And it's strange, since when I'm at work, *I'm like a machine*. I don't think about my personal life. *The only thing that matters is efficiency*. I work with a lot of data though, and I need to use my Ti a lot. I'll admit, *it can be draining*.


Ah, I see where you're coming from. But once more, it strikes me as the difference of perspective between Ti- and Fi-user 

In my original post, I didn't mean to put any labels on the nature of his feelings, nor your understanding of him as a person. What I meant to convey was how Ti-users _think_ about feelings, whether ours or other people's. That's all cognitive function theory is meant to do, after all. Where an Fi-user is very attuned to feelings -- nuances, complexity, richness -- and uses that to make rational decisions, Ti actively suppresses our ability to do so precisely because that would interfere with its effectiveness.

I don't believe feelings are the enemy of logic, and Ti isn't even that logical  (Logic being a Te construct). So, please don't dismiss the most beautiful part of who you are, but do recognize that it is almost diametrically opposite to Ti (I know you understand this, but sometimes people don't realize the _extent_). I'd like also to point out that as INFP, the way you describe you are at work sounds more like Te. Even though it is your inferior function, you'd still have access and can use it, even though it takes a lot of energy. Te feels very different from Ti as well.

I'm spending a lot of time pointing out Ti/Fi differences because it seems to me that you're really saying, _why can't he communicate and feel the way I do, when I know he has feelings_? Very probably he can't, and of course you know this too, and I agree that the disconnect can feel very frustrating. However, as you say, he can _certainly_ work on improving his listening skills and not accuse you of being overly emotional while you refrain from implying he doesn't care. Communication is key  even tho I personally find the idea of merged mind & souls rather beautiful..


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## abigaleblues (Apr 11, 2012)

princessJAY said:


> Ah, I see where you're coming from. But once more, it strikes me as the difference of perspective between Ti- and Fi-user
> 
> In my original post, I didn't mean to put any labels on the nature of his feelings, nor your understanding of him as a person. What I meant to convey was how Ti-users _think_ about feelings, whether ours or other people's. That's all cognitive function theory is meant to do, after all. Where an Fi-user is very attuned to feelings -- nuances, complexity, richness -- and uses that to make rational decisions, Ti actively suppresses our ability to do so precisely because that would interfere with its effectiveness.
> 
> ...


That makes sense. 


And you are right, after reviewing the two functions separately it does seem like I am using Te instead of Ti while at work, considering that efficiency is the key. It makes me sad (feelings, ha!) to think that I don't fully understand Ti. (Perhaps we are getting to the crux of why my boyfriend doesn't fully understand Fi, even though we both study and are interested in cognitive function). We really are just worlds apart in our dominant function. Thank goodness we share Ne.


I think that what you have just explained has helped me understand our differences more than any response I've received (and I've received some pretty good ones. And I've also cluttered the forum with my INFP/INTP problems, so sorry!) But in any case, my goal is understanding, and you have helped me with exactly that. I appreciate your patience.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

I'm a female INFP who has been in a long term relationship with a male INTP, and we have had our share of tension when it comes to the discussing feelings issue.

Some of this may be particular to my relationship, or us as individuals, but I will share some experiences and tips in hopes that some if it will be relateable/helpful:

Number one thing it took me time to really grasp - he is sensitive, too. It's not something most INTPs are labeled as, but it seems that INTPs are very sensitive to how they come off - they want to be seen as competent, interesting, and decent people. They truly care to be kind and generous to the people they like. The last one is magnified greatly when the INTP finds someone special that they really care for. I think INTPs want to feel like they are supportive partners who bring something beneficial to the other person. However, they lack the INFPs fine-tuned emotion detection ray, so they as a rule won't know you are unhappy unless you tell them directly. It's hard to believe that such a perceptive, intelligent person has a blind spot, but yes, we all are oblivious to something.

In my case, I was not able to detect this depth of caring in him too clearly at first, and he would end up feeling dejected and frustrated when I would get upset and lament about how it seemed he didn't give a shit. To him, it was a given that he cared because he spent time with me. When I thought about it, he did spend more time with me than many other people -- an INTP generally is not the sort of person to hang out or even go to a family gathering if they see no personal reason to do it. Their presence in your life itself is a sign that they like you, and their manner of expressing affection is likely to be less "intimate" than yours as an INFP. My INTP is wonderful at bringing food for us too cook together, or at fixing something with my computer -- doing little tasks to improve the smoothness of my life. It may not be a fairytale romance style, but it's thoughtful, caring and kind. I realized that I didn't always appreciate how thoughtful he was toward me because I was always thinking about more emotional types of romantic expression. Don't assume that he is not demonstrating his care for you; you may just not see it for what it is.

I thought he was ignoring how I felt when really he was just oblivious, or frustrated that he didn't understand what I was experiencing, and he thought I was just being dramatic when really I was reacting to disturbances he was not seeing. Communication (without charged emotion, accusation or assumptions) is key in any relationship, and especially in situations like this. He didn't realize that I needed reassurance until I explicitly stated it. When I explained that I did, he was willing to be more affectionate toward me. It's a lot less complicated than I made it out to be - present problem, offer solution - the INTP will likely agree to do it. A lot of this would have been more quickly sorted if we had learned to communicate better with each other earlier on -- I think the INFP tendency is to suggest or imply things, but the INTP style is to state things plainly and directly, and that is the best way to get what you need out of an INTP -- tell them plainly what you feel and what you want from them. Don't expect a mind reader and then feel bad when he doesn't pick up on something, just tell him straight up what's going on. 

Also, allow him time to think about how he feels - in my case, I'd get annoyed and think it was a cop out when he said he wasn't sure how he felt about something, but as time went on it became clear that this was the honest truth. INTPs don't operate from a feeling center, so while they typically have something to say about their_ opinion _on something, it's not as easy for them to articulate _how they feel _about something. Be patient with him. If you make him feel pressured, he will close up. I think INTPs sense the emotional awareness and intensity in their INFP partners and feel a bit overwhelmed or even incompetent by comparison. Make sure not to point out that he seems emotionally retarded, it might just reinforce his self-doubt and make it harder for him to open up. INadequacy is the bane of an INTPs existence, so instead of expressing disappointment in him, try to frame it as a desire to be closer with him out of your affection for him -- after all, that is what makes you frustrated , right? Wanting to get along and spend time with him?

INFPs seem to be rather skilled at learning others' individual preferences and needs, so I think the biggest hurdle will be having patience with the INTPs emotional development, and also being able to assert your feelings before they turn ugly - being assertive is not a hallmark INFP trait, but if you say what's on your mind before it becomes a vexation, it will be easier on everyone.


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## princessJAY (May 25, 2011)

abigaleblues said:


> That makes sense.
> 
> 
> And you are right, after reviewing the two functions separately it does seem like I am using Te instead of Ti while at work, considering that efficiency is the key. It makes me sad (feelings, ha!) to think that I don't fully understand Ti. (Perhaps we are getting to the crux of why my boyfriend doesn't fully understand Fi, even though we both study and are interested in cognitive function). *We really are just worlds apart in our dominant function. Thank goodness we share Ne*.
> ...


I'm glad it helped. I think it's good to know how far apart we are, because then we can really appreciate our every effort and increment toward meeting at the center. Good luck!


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## abigaleblues (Apr 11, 2012)

soya said:


> I'm a female INFP who has been in a long term relationship with a male INTP, and we have had our share of tension when it comes to the discussing feelings issue.
> 
> Some of this may be particular to my relationship, or us as individuals, but I will share some experiences and tips in hopes that some if it will be relateable/helpful:
> 
> ...


Whoa. You were just inside my head big time!


Thanks for responding. For some reason I imagined that there would be a lot of female INFPs coupled with male INTPs. I'm not sure why. I guess that despite our differences, I can see how the two types would gravitate towards each other, especially with the given genders. Anyway. I highlighted the bits that really resonated with me. 


This makes me feel a lot less lonely about my situation. And it's good advice. I'm going to try to explain my needs better and just remember to speak up more frequently.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

soya said:


> I'm a female INFP who has been in a long term relationship with a male INTP, and we have had our share of tension when it comes to the discussing feelings issue.
> 
> Some of this may be particular to my relationship, or us as individuals, but I will share some experiences and tips in hopes that some if it will be relateable/helpful:
> 
> ...


I'm an INTP, although I am female, but you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with how we are. Especially with the bolded parts. We do care very deeply for those we love, and we show that by spending time with that person and listening to what they have to say. If we didn't care, we wouldn't even bother. 

We're incredibly oblivious to others' feelings, and since we don't typically intuitively know how people are feeling, it makes us awkward. We know we're oblivious, if that makes sense. We know we don't get it. But we also think you know we don't get it either. Although I've recently discovered, both from my INFP and from your post, that you think it's a cop-out. Which I'd imagine is one of the biggest issues between INTP/INFP couples. We also don't respond well to extreme emotion, as you said. Emotionally-charged discussions don't get us anywhere, because we're reacting to the emotion that makes us uncomfortable and have trouble deciphering the logic, which is what we're after.

I get a lot of where you're coming from and I'm glad to see an INFP/INTP relationship where at least one of the parties has figured stuff out. It's really hard, even after over three years.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

abigaleblues said:


> Whoa. You were just inside my head big time!
> 
> 
> Thanks for responding. For some reason I imagined that there would be a lot of female INFPs coupled with male INTPs. I'm not sure why. I guess that despite our differences, I can see how the two types would gravitate towards each other, especially with the given genders. Anyway. I highlighted the bits that really resonated with me.
> ...


I do think INFP/INTP is a fairly common pairing. I often wonder how that happens since neither type is typically good at initiating contact, and both could be labeled as shy or passive personalities...

I have never been so interested in a person as I have this INTP. It's hard to put into words, but there is definitely something special about the places where we connect and the places where we differ. I have jokingly said that I hate him for being so impossible to hate.

You are definitely not alone, and I'm glad if my post has helped. I'm sure you'll be able to work things out.

Yep, that is definitely my number one bit of advice to the INFP in the pairing - to speak up and not feel bad for being human and having needs to assert. I think it's easy for our type to focus more on the other person, and doing that too much can lead to feeling frustrated that we are not having our needs met as much we are trying to meet the others' needs - but like I said, (luckily) the INTP is often very happy to do something to help make you feel good. They are naturally improvement-oriented people, and I think they're happy to be given pointers since emotions are not a natural strong suit. It's rare to find people who actually want explicit requests and who will then fulfill them, but the INTP seems to fit that bill. Plus, they will accept your hugs. And pretend to be annoyed. But they'll love it.



goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> I'm an INTP, although I am female, but you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with how we are. Especially with the bolded parts. We do care very deeply for those we love, and we show that by spending time with that person and listening to what they have to say. If we didn't care, we wouldn't even bother.
> 
> We're incredibly oblivious to others' feelings, and since we don't typically intuitively know how people are feeling, it makes us awkward. We know we're oblivious, if that makes sense. We know we don't get it. But we also think you know we don't get it either. Although I've recently discovered, both from my INFP and from your post, that you think it's a cop-out. Which I'd imagine is one of the biggest issues between INTP/INFP couples. We also don't respond well to extreme emotion, as you said. Emotionally-charged discussions don't get us anywhere, because we're reacting to the emotion that makes us uncomfortable and have trouble deciphering the logic, which is what we're after.
> 
> I get a lot of where you're coming from and I'm glad to see an INFP/INTP relationship where at least one of the parties has figured stuff out. It's really hard, even after over three years.


I am happy that I seem to have gleaned an understanding of INTPs as a whole from my experience with my INTP (well, and some reading, of course). I don't know many other INTPs IRL and certainly don't know any others as well as him, so it's nice to read your comments.

Yeah, I think it must be a common INTP/INFP misunderstanding -- the INTP assumes the INFPalready_ knows _they're emotionally distant (both from themselves and others), thus becoming confused when the INFP appears upset that the INTP has apparently missed something... and the INFP assumes the INTP will be perceptive to their feelings and thus assumes the INTP is just avoiding them consciously if they fail to show any reaction toward what the INFP considers obvious emotion. It can be a source of frustration, hurt feelings, and anger, but only if one or both parties fail to communicate. 

By the way, in case anyone was curious, the INTP in question and I are still together and we have grown a lot - most of these problems I posted about have been worked out, so it is possible. At this point it's mostly bickering about what kind of pizza to make or what movie to watch, and for that I am grateful (heh). It's actually really fun to banter and bicker playfully, is that something you other INTP/INFP couples do too? 

goodgracesbadinfluence, sorry you're only hearing from the terribly long-winded INFP perspective - but I doubt the INTP would care to post about this topic, haha.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

soya said:


> I am happy that I seem to have gleaned an understanding of INTPs as a whole from my experience with my INTP (well, and some reading, of course). I don't know many other INTPs IRL and certainly don't know any others as well as him, so it's nice to read your comments.
> 
> Yeah, I think it must be a common INTP/INFP misunderstanding -- the INTP assumes the INFPalready_ knows _they're emotionally distant (both from themselves and others), thus becoming confused when the INFP appears upset that the INTP has apparently missed something... and the INFP assumes the INTP will be perceptive to their feelings and thus assumes the INTP is just avoiding them consciously if they fail to show any reaction toward what the INFP considers obvious emotion. It can be a source of frustration, hurt feelings, and anger, but only if one or both parties fail to communicate.
> 
> ...


You might be surprised how many INTPs actually do care about this topic. It's really common over on our forum. Someone (usually female) comes to us asking what to do about some aloof INTP male in our lives. We even have a relationships thread stickied over there, because we used to get individual threads once or twice a week. I guess we're that bad XD 

I think it's really obvious I'm emotionally distant, and I imagine other INTPs think so as well. And yes, I like to bicker and banter playfully with my INFP, and with all my close friends really. I don't know any other INTP/INFP couples irl... it'd be interesting to see! My situation is also slightly different than the norm, because the typical genders are reversed, but there's generally not a huge difference in how male and female INTPs feel so at least that part is closely related. 

One of the things I really like about dating an INFP is he won't let us stay pissed at each other for too long. If we have a big fight, it's usually resolved quickly. I picked that up from him, I guess, because I was never like that before. Me, I'm just content to avoid him for a while then act like nothing happened, but like we don't ever go to bed pissed at the other, for instance. It's nice.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

HEY! I'm INTP and my girlfriend is INFP. We've both had to make some compromises in order to make it work, but the first thing you should do is talk about it with your partner. My partner and I talked about it when we noticed the problem. Mainly, I only ask for her to try to be specific and not jump from topic to topic without some sort of indication, as this confuses me and if it's during an argument could make me more bothered. For her, I've had to be more "sensitive", although she did not request this. We obviously disagree on many things, but we've managed to meet halfway. Her by being more specific and orderly in her conversations with me, and me by recognizing that, sometimes, I honestly do come off as a dick even if I'm not trying to be, and by considering her feelings before I talk. I've learned to continue being honest, but to sugar-coat things that would otherwise be hurtful. That's all I have to say, I guess...


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> I think it's really obvious I'm emotionally distant, and I imagine other INTPs think so as well. And yes, I like to bicker and banter playfully with my INFP, and with all my close friends really. I don't know any other INTP/INFP couples irl... it'd be interesting to see! My situation is also slightly different than the norm, because the typical genders are reversed, but there's generally not a huge difference in how male and female INTPs feel so at least that part is closely related.
> 
> One of the things I really like about dating an INFP is he won't let us stay pissed at each other for too long. If we have a big fight, it's usually resolved quickly. I picked that up from him, I guess, because I was never like that before. Me, I'm just content to avoid him for a while then act like nothing happened, but like we don't ever go to bed pissed at the other, for instance. It's nice.


I think Fi doms (IxFPs) tend to default at assuming other people see the world the way we do -- if we think about it we know that isn't so, but we unconsciously tend to assume that... so it's hard for us to understand how very different other types can be regarding the feeling nature. It's probably equally as confusing when an INTP realises that INFPs lack the continuum of information, the natural finesse for puzzling out hypothetical scenarios - in short (maybe especially because we share Ne supporting and teritiary Si), both types are surprised to see the apparent lack of their first function (Ti or Fi, respectively) in the other. On the surface we share many things in common, but it's that Ti-Fe vs. Fi-Te divide that begins to show how different we are, too.

I don't think INTPs or INFPs show huge differences in males and females. If anything, socialization might cause male INFPs to become more closed to showing their feelings as readily, but from the posts I've seen by INFP guys around the forums here, we are not too different in general. 

Ha, I'm almost always the first one to apologise in any argument...I've noticed that, too, INTPs just kind of shut down and avoid shit rather than try to smooth things over. It's kind of endearing...


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

soya said:


> I think Fi doms (IxFPs) tend to default at assuming other people see the world the way we do -- if we think about it we know that isn't so, but we unconsciously tend to assume that... so it's hard for us to understand how very different other types can be regarding the feeling nature. It's probably equally as confusing when an INTP realises that INFPs lack the continuum of information, the natural finesse for puzzling out hypothetical scenarios - in short (maybe especially because we share Ne supporting and teritiary Si), both types are surprised to see the apparent lack of their first function (Ti or Fi, respectively) in the other. On the surface we share many things in common, but it's that Ti-Fe vs. Fi-Te divide that begins to show how different we are, too.
> 
> I don't think INTPs or INFPs show huge differences in males and females. If anything, socialization might cause male INFPs to become more closed to showing their feelings as readily, but from the posts I've seen by INFP guys around the forums here, we are not too different in general.
> 
> Ha, I'm almost always the first one to apologise in any argument...I've noticed that, too, INTPs just kind of shut down and avoid shit rather than try to smooth things over. It's kind of endearing...


I don't know any ISFPs... not confirmed anyway. But I do agree my INFP has trouble accepting people's opposing views of the world. I would also think he'd be super used to it by now, seeing as his close friends growing up have been NTs!! His two best friends from school are ENTP and INTx, and then there's me, INTP. But I guess that's not the case. And like, there are issues he's incredibly passionate about. Police brutality is one of them, and he's also a 6w5, so he's super wary of authority. And I just don't share his passion. I'm sure you understand what passion I mean, but sometimes his passion is so overwhelming it actually makes me care less about the issue. Which has to be frustrating to him.

And the Ti-dom/Fi-dom differences are really a major factor. Ti and Fi process very differently, and add that to inferior Fe and Te, and you get a mess. We are 21 and 19, so our tertiary functions are just starting to balance out, so we've really only connected through Ne. I think Ne is the only reason we got along in the first place. And like, when I first met him, he actually annoyed the crap out of me. XD

My INFP is a bit more closed off with feelings than a female INFP, but more open than most males. I'm definitely the emotionally distant one in this relationship. I don't really DO apologies well... neither does he; it's an area we've had to work on. We're a lot alike in really strange ways.


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## abigaleblues (Apr 11, 2012)

I feel like I'm learning more from this thread than any other I've posted. I wanted to apologize for also posting this similar issue with my INTP in the INTP community (if any of you had noticed). I'm still getting used to the format, and I promise my posts will be less redundant in the future. Like @goodgracesbadinfluence mentioned, several of the INTPs seemed to be quite interested in what I had to say regarding this problem, though. I am glad that the desire to better understand each other is there.


And it's so true what @soya said, being Fi dominant, my life has been a continual series of surprises, like wait, you don't feel that?! Haha. But I'm learning. I don't think that we live in a culture that values Fi as much as Te or Fe, so it has been a real struggle. Learning about MBTI has helped me realize that this difference isn't an attack on my character, and it makes the criticism a lot less personal. 


I was thinking more about why INFPs and INTPs may be drawn to each other. We are both shy and sort of awkward, but I think my intense desire to learn more about things I don't understand is what draws me to someone like an INTP and the ISTP, both of which I have dated and definitely misunderstood. (The ISTP and I were a match made in hell, but I actually learned a lot from him). When I first met my INTP, I was drawn to him like a magnet. In the dating world, I prefer being pursued, never the one who pursues. But not with him. I knew that he was worth the chase a long time ago. It took us several months to finally get it together, lots of back and forth (probably our shyness) but eventually we got to where we are.


And despite how ominous my initial post may have been, I do feel better after this discussion. I have been talking to my INTP more, and he seems to be responding well. We've been together for four years, and I just now feel like we are getting somewhere with this specific issue. I was worried that some people were under the impression that I was simply whining to the forum without discussing the issues with him, but that is not the case. I appreciate all of the feedback and look forward to more INFP/INTP discussions!


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

abigaleblues said:


> I feel like I'm learning more from this thread than any other I've posted. I wanted to apologize for also posting this similar issue with my INTP in the INTP community (if any of you had noticed). I'm still getting used to the format, and I promise my posts will be less redundant in the future. Like @_goodgracesbadinfluence_ mentioned, several of the INTPs seemed to be quite interested in what I had to say regarding this problem, though. I am glad that the desire to better understand each other is there.
> 
> 
> And it's so true what @_soya_ said, being Fi dominant, my life has been a continual series of surprises, like wait, you don't feel that?! Haha. But I'm learning. I don't think that we live in a culture that values Fi as much as Te or Fe, so it has been a real struggle. Learning about MBTI has helped me realize that this difference isn't an attack on my character, and it makes the criticism a lot less personal.
> ...


Haha, I was sadly a very naive kid, I remember feeling confused as to why I was labeled a "goody two-shoes" - I think being an Fi-dom child makes you appear like a fairy or an ass-kisser to other types. Little did they know, I bow to no one! *evil laughter*

Damn those mysterious Ti-doms. They seem to be impossibly interesting to me, too. ISTPs will likely get on my nerves more easily than INTPs. To me they're very stubborn, though I love the way they always want to be proactive. On the other hand, my Se sucks, and ISTPs seem to think I am crazy (I don't think they can follow the Ne ramblings too well). Funny stuff. 

The INTP will essentially want the INFP to be the one to assert interpersonal concerns. If we do that, we are pretty set for things to be a lot better. Being an e9, I resented feeling that I "had to be the assertive one" at first, because it's not my typical role...but the benefits make it easier and definitely worthwhile. Plus, going outside one's comfort zone helps us develop new skills. I try to look at it that way when I am intimidated by something unfamiliar. Learn something new, that can't be a bad thing.

Oh, I didn't think you were just complaining without doing anything, the tone of your posts was more along the lines of "here is an issue I want to deal with, can anyone give me some advice on how to do it?"

I think this thread is starting to become the INTP/INFP relationship support group. Maybe we should have coffee and cookies next time.


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

abigaleblues said:


> I was thinking more about why INFPs and INTPs may be drawn to each other. We are both shy and sort of awkward, but I think my intense desire to learn more about things I don't understand is what draws me to someone like an INTP and the ISTP, both of which I have dated and definitely misunderstood. (The ISTP and I were a match made in hell, but I actually learned a lot from him). When I first met my INTP, I was drawn to him like a magnet. In the dating world, I prefer being pursued, never the one who pursues. But not with him. I knew that he was worth the chase a long time ago. It took us several months to finally get it together, lots of back and forth (probably our shyness) but eventually we got to where we are.
> 
> And despite how ominous my initial post may have been, I do feel better after this discussion. I have been talking to my INTP more, and he seems to be responding well. We've been together for four years, and I just now feel like we are getting somewhere with this specific issue. I was worried that some people were under the impression that I was simply whining to the forum without discussing the issues with him, but that is not the case. I appreciate all of the feedback and look forward to more INFP/INTP discussions!


It's actually funny, because my INFP dated an ISTP and they were terrible for each other. He learned a lot from her as well. 

I've been with my INFP for 3 years... well, involved with... we're not "officially" together currently but we don't act any different. And communication is still an issue sometimes with us too. I think for an INFP/INTP couple to work, they really need to work out the communication. That's usually what I see when an INFP/INTP relationship goes down the drain.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

goodgracesbadinfluence said:


> And like, there are issues he's incredibly passionate about. Police brutality is one of them, and he's also a 6w5, so he's super wary of authority. And I just don't share his passion. I'm sure you understand what passion I mean, but sometimes his passion is so overwhelming it actually makes me care less about the issue. Which has to be frustrating to him.


Oh man, scathing truth there. 

I have some odd topics that I'm passionate about (color theory, for example) that my poor INTP is bored to tears with. And I know my enthusiasm for something he cares little for to begin with makes it even worse... I think it just makes him feel like it's the most bizarre and tedious shit ever, and he wonders if I'll ever shut up about it. Then I add to my image of insanity by finding his annoyance amusing. I'll say something like "I think I'll keep talking about this topic, I can tell you find it _enthralling_!" 

Haha. At least he asks me to help him when he's clothes shopping or looking for a new household item, he has come to not even question my color sense - which for an INTP is a big deal (not questioning, that is). So my weird interests sometimes come with some benefits. I think that's why he tries to put up with it. That, and he knows I try my best to find interest in things he likes - even stuff I know almost nothing about. It's kind of cool to learn new stuff from each other, especially stuff you wouldn't look into on your own.


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## TWN (Feb 16, 2012)

abigaleblues said:


> INFP vs INTP: A lovers quarrel
> 
> 
> I'm an INFP and my long term partner is an INTP. While we typically get along very well and share many interests, we aren't the best at conflict. He's Ti dominant and I'm Fi dominant, so you can see where our importance lies. However, my weak spot being Te and his being Fe, we are both demanding things from each other that are rather difficult. I tell him to "care more!" and he tells me to calm down and THINK.
> ...


*
His thinking is care. Know that, understand that, praise that. Throw out everything else.*

Sometimes it's hard to appreciate an INTP, and I find it sad because we care so much about loved ones. It's just in our heads, and lost in our words.

I've been the INTP that gave, and gave, and gave, and ended up with "But you dont CARE" thrown at me. 


*I do care; you have to learn to accept MY care.*


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## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

soya said:


> Oh man, scathing truth there.
> 
> I have some odd topics that I'm passionate about (color theory, for example) that my poor INTP is bored to tears with. And I know my enthusiasm for something he cares little for to begin with makes it even worse... I think it just makes him feel like it's the most bizarre and tedious shit ever, and he wonders if I'll ever shut up about it. Then I add to my image of insanity by finding his annoyance amusing. I'll say something like "I think I'll keep talking about this topic, I can tell you find it _enthralling_!"
> 
> Haha. At least he asks me to help him when he's clothes shopping or looking for a new household item, he has come to not even question my color sense - which for an INTP is a big deal (not questioning, that is). So my weird interests sometimes come with some benefits. I think that's why he tries to put up with it. That, and he knows I try my best to find interest in things he likes - even stuff I know almost nothing about. It's kind of cool to learn new stuff from each other, especially stuff you wouldn't look into on your own.


I too have odd topics that interest me that my INFP doesn't care for, haha. 

I don't think anything my INFP has to say is bizarre or tedious. I just don't care enough about it to have a conversation about it. I can't contribute to the conversation. Except, like you said, by asking questions. But sometimes some of the things he talks about just randomly pop up when I'm distracted or having a bad day and I can't put forth the energy to ask questions. 

As much as I don't like to admit it, I have learned a lot from my INFP and even found a few new interests because of him.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

TWN said:


> *
> His thinking is care. Know that, understand that, praise that. Throw out everything else.*
> 
> Sometimes it's hard to appreciate an INTP, and I find it sad because we care so much about loved ones. It's just in our heads, and lost in our words.
> ...


Remember that we cannot _accept_ what we don't first_ understand_. 

Often the issue isn't a rejection of your brand of care, it's a complete lack of _awareness _concerning it. Just as we seem foreign in our ways to you, so you seem to us. Your silence does not often offer explanation. 

If it seems the INFP doesn't acknowledge your care it is probably because they do not _see_ it, they don't understand how it operates because it's not the same as their own. They need to be taught to see it, just as you need to learn to understand their approach.

We will most likely accept and even cherish your ways once you make them known to us. 

In fact, as I stated before, it is more than likely that the INFP would like nothing more than to understand you better, to know you more.


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