# I am convinced I will hate life until I can retire.



## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm gonna be blunt; I hate working. I know most people feel this way and would prefer to be lazy and sit around the house rather than work but I believe this goes deeper and is causing me depression. I'm not lazy, I want to travel and do fun things, not sit on the couch, so that's not the reason I hate work. I am 43 and have had 9 jobs in my life and have never felt like it was something I could do forever. Most of my jobs I stayed at for only a few months. I have tried all the jobs I can get and I just can't seem to find something that makes life bearable. Every time between jobs I get excited for the next one, thinking it will finally be the one that I can tolerate enough to keep. But a few days after being at a job, the inevitable sets in and I get depressed. 

I have tried working in 3 different factories, a fast food place, 2 hotels, a teenage shelter, restaurant, and a retail store. I am an INFJ, Enneagram type 5w4, so i'm introverted and have anxiety when it comes to talking on the phone, dealing with customers, that sort of thing. I am on my 3rd try with factory work right now which i've only been at for 3 days and already I am wanting to quit. Yes factory work is great for introverts but the problem is it's soul-sucking, cold, industrial, unhealthy, monotonous, and there is always so much overtime. Right now at this job I have to work 10 hours M-F plus 11-5 on Saturdays. So I just came from retail where I didn't make enough money and was stressed out dealing with phones and customers, but I had enough time off to have a life and get things done...and now I will have enough money but no time to do anything. My one day off will be used to do grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning, yard work, etc. and i'll never see my family or friends unless I quit (they live too far away to just stop over, it would be an hour round trip to go there). But if I quit, I will be stuck again doing minimum wage probably dealing with customers again.

On top of my life sucking because of work, I haven't had a boyfriend in 15 years, and I have a Circadian Rhythm disorder that prevents me from sleeping at night so the only time I can sleep is early morning into early afternoon. So that limits what jobs I can get, too. And I don't see how I am ever going to be able to find a boyfriend now or have any kind of a social life. I'm going to work the rest of my life away and die alone. I know it seems like i'm being overdramatic but I have been dealing with all of these issues most of my life and they clearly aren't going to go away anytime soon.

I don't know what kind of advice anyone could even give me, I'm just venting I guess. Can anyone else relate?


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

I guess that given a choice, many people would prefer total freedom to do whatever they want whether that means contributing to the society or not. Problem is humanity haven't come up with a perfect system yet, and if i weren't for working people we wouldn't have many comodities in life. Certainly regressing to cave men ways isn't desireable; and then we would all still be working for our lives as we need to hunt, defend our homes and keep ourselves warm.

When we are not too compatible with the environment we live in, what we can do is to figure out alternatives that makes the best out of what we currently have. There are actually people who, like you, are not happy with the current usual options. What some did was to dedicate themselves in exploring alternate ways and putting effort in pursuing them. For example, there are people who found a way to make money by traveling around the world while writing about it. There are also digital nomads taking all sorts of digital related jobs so that they can make money and travel at the same time. Then there are freelancers so that they can work with their own schedule. Their path is of course not all roses and they will have to learn how to get clients, find jobs and manage their lives, but then nothing in life is really all roses unless you win lotery. But at least they worked hard to find an alternate way.
And then there are also people who become enterpreneurs by finding a market opening and aiming for it. This is also not easy, many businesses requires full dedication, more than a full-time job, at least at the beginning. Many people thinks of how great and rich founders are but they are not seeing the amount of effort and risk they have to deal with.

Also, you mentioned that you feel anxiety when dealing with people. While we can try to find alternate ways that are more comfortable, sometimes we also have to work things out to adapt to this world. I also have some social anxiety but I couldn't let it get in the way and need to as a responsible adult. It took time and still takes to improve things, but in the end I've got better at it. Being an introvert I still prefer solitary tasks, but there is a difference between this and unhealthy anxiety that needs to be addressed and improved.


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## JayDubs (Sep 1, 2009)

Earth Goddess said:


> On top of my life sucking because of work, I haven't had a boyfriend in 15 years, and I have a Circadian Rhythm disorder that prevents me from sleeping at night so the only time I can sleep is early morning into early afternoon. So that limits what jobs I can get, too. And I don't see how I am ever going to be able to find a boyfriend now or have any kind of a social life. I'm going to work the rest of my life away and die alone. I know it seems like i'm being overdramatic but I have been dealing with all of these issues most of my life and they clearly aren't going to go away anytime soon.
> 
> I don't know what kind of advice anyone could even give me, I'm just venting I guess. Can anyone else relate?


If you haven't had a boyfriend in 15 years (and you're looking for one), I don't think it has anything to do with how much you've had to work. If it's important to you, you should elaborate on that either here or in the Sex and Relationships forum.


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## Serak (Jul 26, 2012)

Sounds like you've got a lot going on here, @Earth Goddess.

If I might: Shotgunning here in the advice board may not be the best approach. Perhaps you need to lay out these core challenges you've identified and talk one-on-one with a third party to get some unattached, clear insight? The closer you are to something the harder it is to see it, after all, and there's no one closer to you than you.

Whether it's someone you know locally or on PerC, striking up a one-on-one to get another perspective may be exactly what you need.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

1) Pray to God to solve the problem. From my perspective, God doesn't want a woman to do all this, especially at the cost of having a husband. A lady at my church had this problem of working 2 jobs and she couldn't take it anymore, so she took it up with God. God got her a job taking care of her father for pay.

2) If you wont do that, I suggest a major course divergence in life. Practically speaking, if you're not religious, then there's no point to what you're doing. Do whatever you want and ignore protocols such as what society expects from you. Now, there can be consequences to this, homeless ect. but I think with enough fore-planning it's not an unreasonable change. Really depends on what else is doable.

And look at it this way, if you got enough social security already secured, it's not as though you're going to miss out on retirement. It will increase if you work more, but how much? I'd calculate that and see if it's worth all the effort considering you'll be trying to begin life at 65.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

@Earth Goddess, 

I'm sorry that you have a lot you're dealing with right now. 

I had a thought for a different field for you to try - caregiving. A lot of it is one-on-one, and many people who need it aren't normal socializers. I have worked with three different young adults with intellectual disabilities, none of whom was able to converse normally, so there was not really any social pressure there. Mostly I would spend my time with them doing little activities like taking walks outdoors, helping them do puzzles, or small exercises for working on their motor control. It wasn't always the most engaging, but it was bearable, it gave me some time to reflect, and I did feel good about helping another person. Typically agencies provide and pay for your training, which is not usually extensive, just CPR and some minor health-related tasks, which can be interesting. You could also choose whether you were comfortable with "personal care" (helping with using the bathroom) or not. At least at the agency I worked for the hours were mostly mid-afternoon into night, which would suit your sleeping schedule. You could also pick up and drop as many hours as you wanted, so you could basically create your own schedule. My agency floods my inbox with open shifts so I know at least in my area there is demand. And it paid reasonably - not incredibly, but more than retail, anyway. It was always enough to live on and to help put me through school. At one point I worked 2 12-hour shifts and one 6-hour shift and that was enough to qualify me for benefits, as well.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

AriesLilith said:


> I guess that given a choice, many people would prefer total freedom to do whatever they want whether that means contributing to the society or not. Problem is humanity haven't come up with a perfect system yet, and if i weren't for working people we wouldn't have many comodities in life. Certainly regressing to cave men ways isn't desireable; and then we would all still be working for our lives as we need to hunt, defend our homes and keep ourselves warm.
> 
> When we are not too compatible with the environment we live in, what we can do is to figure out alternatives that makes the best out of what we currently have. There are actually people who, like you, are not happy with the current usual options. What some did was to dedicate themselves in exploring alternate ways and putting effort in pursuing them. For example, there are people who found a way to make money by traveling around the world while writing about it. There are also digital nomads taking all sorts of digital related jobs so that they can make money and travel at the same time. Then there are freelancers so that they can work with their own schedule. Their path is of course not all roses and they will have to learn how to get clients, find jobs and manage their lives, but then nothing in life is really all roses unless you win lotery. But at least they worked hard to find an alternate way.
> And then there are also people who become enterpreneurs by finding a market opening and aiming for it. This is also not easy, many businesses requires full dedication, more than a full-time job, at least at the beginning. Many people thinks of how great and rich founders are but they are not seeing the amount of effort and risk they have to deal with.
> ...


I've been trying this for years now, apparently i don't have what it takes to be an entrepreneur because everything I get interested in, I lose interest in and all the computer technical marketing business stuff is way over my head. I got C's and D's in school and most people that meet me think i'm kinda ditzy (I agree but I don't care, I accept myself at this age) so yeah having a business of my own isn't going to happen. I'm the kind of person who would rather pay the fine for not having health insurance than go through the process of getting it. I am not very responsible. Well I pay my bills and show up to work on time and have never commited a crime, it isn't those things, it's things that aren't 100% necessary. I'm a 'bare minimum' kind of girl, why put in more effort than necessary. I know I sound like a teenager but it's more like I value the simple things in life, watching the sunset, visiting new places, taking pictures of nature, not petty things that have to do with rules, regulations, laws, business, money, power, prestige, ugh! I am into peace, love and nature, and just want to exist, just BE. I don't want to climb ladders of success, attend business meetings, commute to work and punch in & out and commute back home to try to enjoy the precious little time left before having to go to bed to get up and do it all over again day in and day out until I realized i've worked my life away.

I think that was a bit of a tangent, lol Sorry. In a nutshell, I am not cut out for running a business or anything like that, tried and realized I can't do it.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

JayDubs said:


> If you haven't had a boyfriend in 15 years (and you're looking for one), I don't think it has anything to do with how much you've had to work. If it's important to you, you should elaborate on that either here or in the Sex and Relationships forum.


Well everyone knows in order to find someone you gotta get out there, and if I stay at this job forever I am looking at only going to the grocery store on my 1 day off, forever, that's the only place I'll be able to go anymore. I am not blaming work on why I'm single, I'm just saying now I for sure won't get a boyfriend if the only places I can ever go are work and the store. None of the guys at my new job are my type, there isn't even a single one I think is halfway attractive. So unless someone gets hired on that I like, I will probably be single til I die.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Serak said:


> Sounds like you've got a lot going on here, @_Earth Goddess_.
> 
> If I might: Shotgunning here in the advice board may not be the best approach. Perhaps you need to lay out these core challenges you've identified and talk one-on-one with a third party to get some unattached, clear insight? The closer you are to something the harder it is to see it, after all, and there's no one closer to you than you.
> 
> Whether it's someone you know locally or on PerC, striking up a one-on-one to get another perspective may be exactly what you need.


Well that's why I came to this forum, lol I also talk to my best friend about it but she just says suck it up, that's the way life is, nobody likes to work and you have to work if you want a place to live and food to eat. I just think that is bullcrap, but it's how the system is set up so we're forced to obey.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Razare said:


> 1) Pray to God to solve the problem. From my perspective, God doesn't want a woman to do all this, especially at the cost of having a husband. A lady at my church had this problem of working 2 jobs and she couldn't take it anymore, so she took it up with God. God got her a job taking care of her father for pay.
> 
> 2) If you wont do that, I suggest a major course divergence in life. Practically speaking, if you're not religious, then there's no point to what you're doing. Do whatever you want and ignore protocols such as what society expects from you. Now, there can be consequences to this, homeless ect. but I think with enough fore-planning it's not an unreasonable change. Really depends on what else is doable.
> 
> And look at it this way, if you got enough social security already secured, it's not as though you're going to miss out on retirement. It will increase if you work more, but how much? I'd calculate that and see if it's worth all the effort considering you'll be trying to begin life at 65.


I'm not religious at all, never had my prayers answered even when I was.

As my retirement money stands now, I think I will get $500 a month when I retire. Thats not even enough for half of a one bedroom apartment, lol Imagine how much they will be in 20 more years. That $500 will probably be my monthly utility bill by that time.

I would actually love to be homeless, minus the part where I wouldn't be able to have stuff, lol I love to cook and eat healthy and you really can't do that if you don't have a kitchen and money to buy healthy food. I love to take pictures and if you're homeless you don't even have a plug in to charge your camera batteries or a computer to share your pictures with people. The other reason I won't be homeless is because my parents are too smothering. In order to stop them from smothering me and buying me things and helping me is to be independent and the only way to do that is have a job so you can support yourself by yourself and live on your own. If I quit my job and tried to live free like I want to, they wouldn't let me, they'd force me to live with them and they'd make me eat their food and they'd give me money and I am an adult not a child, I refuse to live like that again. Worst times of my life, when I had to live at home as an adult.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> I've been trying this for years now, apparently i don't have what it takes to be an entrepreneur because everything I get interested in, I lose interest in and all the computer technical marketing business stuff is way over my head. I got C's and D's in school and most people that meet me think i'm kinda ditzy (I agree but I don't care, I accept myself at this age) so yeah having a business of my own isn't going to happen. I'm the kind of person who would rather pay the fine for not having health insurance than go through the process of getting it. I am not very responsible. Well I pay my bills and show up to work on time and have never commited a crime, it isn't those things, it's things that aren't 100% necessary. I'm a 'bare minimum' kind of girl, why put in more effort than necessary. I know I sound like a teenager but it's more like I value the simple things in life, watching the sunset, visiting new places, taking pictures of nature, not petty things that have to do with rules, regulations, laws, business, money, power, prestige, ugh! I am into peace, love and nature, and just want to exist, just BE. I don't want to climb ladders of success, attend business meetings, commute to work and punch in & out and commute back home to try to enjoy the precious little time left before having to go to bed to get up and do it all over again day in and day out until I realized i've worked my life away.
> 
> I think that was a bit of a tangent, lol Sorry. In a nutshell, I am not cut out for running a business or anything like that, tried and realized I can't do it.


I relate to this myself a lot (except I'm not known to be ditzy... Just moody). I haven't worked in years because of depression. I actually went to college at 16, skipping some of high school, tried to be an engineer but realized I didn't want to so dropped out from depression. At 18 went back to high school to finish up for my degree but still to this day I never even got my diploma because I'm like you and really don't want to call and get it or whatever. Would rather just deal with people thinking I never graduated than going through the system to prove it. 

I dream of traveling (the same you must dream of retirement) but I know I have to accumulate some worth before I can. Right now I'm writing books because it makes me happy to create things. I feel like an artist but I lack the encouragement to pursue my heart. 

I think you need to find in your heart something to be passionate about, and don't lose sight of it. Make it work and forget about the rules. I'm doing the same with my books and saying "fuck the system" as I create my masterpieces using the joy inside my heart as fuel.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

angelfish said:


> @_Earth Goddess_,
> 
> I'm sorry that you have a lot you're dealing with right now.
> 
> I had a thought for a different field for you to try - caregiving. A lot of it is one-on-one, and many people who need it aren't normal socializers. I have worked with three different young adults with intellectual disabilities, none of whom was able to converse normally, so there was not really any social pressure there. Mostly I would spend my time with them doing little activities like taking walks outdoors, helping them do puzzles, or small exercises for working on their motor control. It wasn't always the most engaging, but it was bearable, it gave me some time to reflect, and I did feel good about helping another person. Typically agencies provide and pay for your training, which is not usually extensive, just CPR and some minor health-related tasks, which can be interesting. You could also choose whether you were comfortable with "personal care" (helping with using the bathroom) or not. At least at the agency I worked for the hours were mostly mid-afternoon into night, which would suit your sleeping schedule. You could also pick up and drop as many hours as you wanted, so you could basically create your own schedule. My agency floods my inbox with open shifts so I know at least in my area there is demand. And it paid reasonably - not incredibly, but more than retail, anyway. It was always enough to live on and to help put me through school. At one point I worked 2 12-hour shifts and one 6-hour shift and that was enough to qualify me for benefits, as well.


Thanks for trying to help...actually caregiving is the last thing I wanna do. I don't have kids so i'm not the mothering type. I don't like taking care of people. Even non-medical stuff. I guess that makes me sound selfish but I'm just not cut out for that kind of thing.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Stelliferous said:


> I relate to this myself a lot (except I'm not known to be ditzy... Just moody). I haven't worked in years because of depression. I actually went to college at 16, skipping some of high school, tried to be an engineer but realized I didn't want to so dropped out from depression. At 18 went back to high school to finish up for my degree but still to this day I never even got my diploma because I'm like you and really don't want to call and get it or whatever. Would rather just deal with people thinking I never graduated than going through the system to prove it.
> 
> I dream of traveling (the same you must dream of retirement) but I know I have to accumulate some worth before I can. Right now I'm writing books because it makes me happy to create things. I feel like an artist but I lack the encouragement to pursue my heart.
> 
> I think you need to find in your heart something to be passionate about, and don't lose sight of it. Make it work and forget about the rules. I'm doing the same with my books and saying "fuck the system" as I create my masterpieces using the joy inside my heart as fuel.


That's awesome! I like to write too, unfortunately I lose interest before I get done with anything, lol I am passionate about a lot of things but I don't want to do anything 8 hours a day 40 hours a week for the rest of my life, even if it was my favorite thing in the world, which right now is photography but I still like that I am not forced to do it and if I want I can stop doing it and pursue gardening for a month or two, or soapmaking or whatever else I feel like that week, lol. I want to live in the now, in the present moment, I want to do whatever I feel like in that moment, not be forced to do anything that doesn't vibe with me. You might find yourself in the same mindset i'm in, where you pretty much have to pick a job just to survive and if you're lucky you'll have enough free time to enjoy your hobbies, if you aren't knocked on your butt from depression from the realization that no matter how much you enjoy your free time, there's still work in the way to screw things up.


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## Serak (Jul 26, 2012)

Earth Goddess said:


> Well that's why I came to this forum, lol I also talk to my best friend about it but she just says suck it up, that's the way life is, nobody likes to work and you have to work if you want a place to live and food to eat. I just think that is bullcrap, but it's how the system is set up so we're forced to obey.


It is bullcrap, but maybe not for the reasons you think.

I love to work. I love the work I do, I love feeling accomplished when I get something done and see the difference it makes. I love learning, achieving that which I thought I couldn't, and then going after even more. I work full-time and run a small business. I wake up excited every day because of the work I do.

If I can, you can too. There's nothing special about me at all. There's nothing about me that makes me better than you.

You'd be surprised at how you can monetize your existence and your passions! Look at your skill set. You might think it's either only worth low-paying positions or no pay at all. And then consider this: I make side money off of a niche, anime-themed writing community. All because I like writing, I like sharing and building stories with others. I turned that into income. If I tried harder I could turn that into a lot of income.

You can too.

Examine what you're passionate about, what excites you. I'm sure it exists. When you find it? Throw away your preconceptions about whether it can or cannot earn you a living.

Use passion to become excellent. Excellence begets people who are happy to pay you for what you do.

If you're unemployed and feel like you have no prospects? Then you've got nothing to lose, professionally.

Whatever it is, go for it. Seriously. Dare to do. Fail a _million_ times.

You only need to succeed once.

Pick a third party you can trust to be neutral, maybe someone in this thread, and send them a PM. Right now. Get talking. Worst case scenario is the conversation doesn't break your status quo and nothing changes. No loss to you.

But maybe it will. It sounds like you want, and need, a change. Try to make it happen.

You might like the result!


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> That's awesome! I like to write too, unfortunately I lose interest before I get done with anything, lol I am passionate about a lot of things but I don't want to do anything 8 hours a day 40 hours a week for the rest of my life, even if it was my favorite thing in the world, which right now is photography but I still like that I am not forced to do it and if I want I can stop doing it and pursue gardening for a month or two, or soapmaking or whatever else I feel like that week, lol. I want to live in the now, in the present moment, I want to do whatever I feel like in that moment, not be forced to do anything that doesn't vibe with me. You might find yourself in the same mindset i'm in, where you pretty much have to pick a job just to survive and if you're lucky you'll have enough free time to enjoy your hobbies, if you aren't knocked on your butt from depression from the realization that no matter how much you enjoy your free time, there's still work in the way to screw things up.


Maybe you can make a blog online where you challenge yourself each week to pick up something new to learn, writing down the process and sharing it online. Perhaps people will follow it and with a larger following you can begin to ask for donations to continue running it. It could be an "Adventures of.." Type deal. I would think people would be interested in such a thing and when people are interested money is made. These days millions of "gamers" watch a few pro gamers stream their gaming at a regular basis. Yes, people watch people play games instead of playing themselves... It's frightening. But they make SO much money from donations that it's absurd. If I had better tech I would stream myself because of my skill. 

With the onslaught of the internet, you can make a lot of money by doing pretty normal things while others sit at home and live through you! You are a 43 year old female so you can cater to a specific audience... Like your friends who say "well that's life" then go home and use their imagination to get off through someone else's life. You can be a symbol for living for those precious moments in life instead of being a secret gem. Personally I think there will be an audience for you.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Serak said:


> It is bullcrap, but maybe not for the reasons you think.
> 
> I love to work. I love the work I do, I love feeling accomplished when I get something done and see the difference it makes. I love learning, achieving that which I thought I couldn't, and then going after even more. I work full-time and run a small business. I wake up excited every day because of the work I do.


You are lucky. In all my jobs, I was never once excited to wake up and go to work, even with the jobs that didn't make me hate life.



> If I can, you can too. There's nothing special about me at all. There's nothing about me that makes me better than you.


Not better, but different. Some people have motivation and drive, some are super laid back and carefree. Some are good at running a business and some aren't. You obviously have something I don't, not saying it's better, just more suited for different things.



> You'd be surprised at how you can monetize your existence and your passions! Look at your skill set. You might think it's either only worth low-paying positions or no pay at all. And then consider this: I make side money off of a niche, anime-themed writing community. All because I like writing, I like sharing and building stories with others. I turned that into income. If I tried harder I could turn that into a lot of income.


But in order to make it work, you still need to focus on it for a long time. That is where I am not cut out for any one job or any one thing, because I don't want to pick anything. I just want to do what I want whenever I want for as long as I want. I'll use photography as my example. I love it, but that doesn't mean I want to or have the patience and focus to build a career out of it. I just want to go out and take pictures, put them online, and be done, that's all I want to do. I don't want to run a business or update a website on a regular basis (been there, tried that, failed every time...or should I say realized I'm not cut out for that).

Another thing is there isn't enough time anyway, my free time is so limited now because of work, I can't even see my family and friends anymore.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Stelliferous said:


> Maybe you can make a blog online where you challenge yourself each week to pick up something new to learn, writing down the process and sharing it online. Perhaps people will follow it and with a larger following you can begin to ask for donations to continue running it. It could be an "Adventures of.." Type deal. I would think people would be interested in such a thing and when people are interested money is made. These days millions of "gamers" watch a few pro gamers stream their gaming at a regular basis. Yes, people watch people play games instead of playing themselves... It's frightening. But they make SO much money from donations that it's absurd. If I had better tech I would stream myself because of my skill.
> 
> With the onslaught of the internet, you can make a lot of money by doing pretty normal things while others sit at home and live through you! You are a 43 year old female so you can cater to a specific audience... Like your friends who say "well that's life" then go home and use their imagination to get off through someone else's life. You can be a symbol for living for those precious moments in life instead of being a secret gem. Personally I think there will be an audience for you.


I have tried blogs, in fact right now I have 3 or 4 of them that I lost interest in. That's my whole point, the things I like to do, are never a permanent thing. I've had a few websites and a few blogs. I might keep posting for a few days in a row but after that I find something new I want to do and just thinking about the blog makes me feel pressured and uninterested. I wish I could find something like you're describing that I could do once or and twice and make money from it, lol But ongoing things that require time and focus, ain't gonna happen. Especially now that I have very limited free time.


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## sweetraglansweater (Jul 31, 2015)

what is preventing you from actually living?

do you really need the money?

go to a warm climate and live under a bridge and mooch from a food bank. bum some pot and go to sleep on a grassy bank somewhere. panhandle. have sex with a hippie. 

you don't need to work.

nobody is going to make you happy except you.


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## Serak (Jul 26, 2012)

Earth Goddess said:


> You are lucky. In all my jobs, I was never once excited to wake up and go to work, even with the jobs that didn't make me hate life.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You have a bigger problem here and everything I'm about to say is going to sound really mean.

No one, least of all you, can help you when you won't help yourself.

You're right that any productivity comes from consistent effort, if not consistency in the particular activity. Whatever you do, even if it's a bunch of different things, you must continue to do _something_, to make _something_.

If you are truly unable and unwilling to do something(s) consistently, then I will give you the answer it feels like you're fishing for: You're fucked, there is no solution to your problem.

For instance, I could offer a solution: Have another entity do the background work for your blog, all you have to provide is the activity and content. But then you'll turn around and say "but I don't want to have to provide the activity and content". Or maybe you'll say "I don't want to have to pursue and make such a business relationship".

So I'll offer you this alternative instead.

Given your current statements and information provided you will never be able to provide for yourself independently and any attempts to do so will result in poverty and misery because doing anything consistently makes you miserable. Until your mindset changes, this is reality. Your only option for improving your lifestyle, then, is having someone else do it for you.

I don't want to sound rude, really, but this is the only remaining recourse given the situation you've described. Find someone to take care of you. All of your energy should go into that. Every last drop. Any energy directed elsewhere is energy wasted on tasks that will never pay off for you. Never in a million years.

Of course, I fully expect you to turn around and say that is, too, an impossible path for you to follow. For one reason or another. You don't have the time, right? And you couldn't possibly learn how to get more out of your time. That's also impossible.

Honestly, I wish I had better news and could be more positive. Your response kind of shut that down, which is a bit of bummer because I try to spread as much optimism and positivity as possible.

I'll close by saying that you are the master of your own life. You speak as if you're a slave to your whims and your weaknesses and your tendencies. You are not. I am different than you because I made myself this way. If there are traits in me that you want, or traits in anyone around you, you can learn to be like them too. You are what you make yourself. You are equipped to change, grow, and evolve; just like the rest of us.

Right now it doesn't seem like you want to, or are thoroughly convinced that you cannot, and that's a shame. You seem like a pretty cool person otherwise!


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

@Earth Goddess, it seems that you are looking for a perfect path/job and you are not able to focus/specialize and put consistent, deeper effort on anything you came up with. Thing is, perfect conditions is almost impossible, if not impossible. The reality is as it is, with its available opportunities, but they don't bend and adapt to us 100%. We have to find out which available opportunities that we fit the most, and then adapt to it.

For example, if you find out something you can enjoy 70% of it (like taking photographs, having your own schedule as a freelancer, work whenever you want/need, build a portfolio online), and 30% of it you don't like (needing to dedicate to develop technical/artistic skills, deal with finding clients), then it's still good. Probably much better than your current situation too where you feel very miserable.

And @Serak pointed out something important. You are not looking for solutions, you always just present problems whenever someone presents a possible solution. That is a negative mindset and if you are willing to work on it, focus on figuring out solutions even if they are not 100% perfect then you might find out new alternatives.

Life is about figuring out alternatives. Adapting and meeting life in the half way instead of finding the perfect condition right away. The best things always requires effort. The bloggers and writers that made it and became freelancers who work on their schedule while traveling dedicated a lot and don't always enjoy every task they have to do. Many were fed up in 40 hours a week 9 to 5 in an office, so they put effort to change that and make it happen. They might have been afraid to change too. It's a risk after all. But in the end, we all are the ones that have to ask ourselves - do we want something better or not? Life is not going to cater us, we have to chase what we want ourselves.

By the way, I've read once somewhere that some people actually live without money in small communities. Perhaps you can check that out. They seem to live by trading stuffs with each other. For example, one builds furnitures, other hunts, other plants stuffs...


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

@Earth Goddess:

I suspect the underlying issue of everything isn't really about the job itself, but there could be a deeper issue beneath everything. 
I believe that the reason you are unable to feel passionate about your job as well as your lack of motivation/drive is probably because there is an underlying medical issue, such as depression or adhd. 

I advise you to visit a psychologist and see what they say. I happened to feel the same way as you about jobs too, I hate working and no matter what jobs I worked I felt the same feeling, I hate every job I worked in. 
And yes, I have depression and anxiety, and I believe it's my depression and anxiety that is the root cause behind why I disliked every jobs I worked in. The working world has always been a harsh place for me. I'm unable to learn things quickly, I'm unable to focus, I get panic attacks frequently at work. And because of my depression and anxiety, I'm unable to perform at work like the way a "normal" person could, and as a result, my colleagues often end up disliking me for my "incompetency".

So instead of focusing on how much you dislike your jobs, I think you should focus more on how to resolve those medical issues first. 
Once you get those medical issues sorted out, you might end up feeling a different way about those jobs.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

Earth Goddess said:


> Thanks for trying to help...actually caregiving is the last thing I wanna do. I don't have kids so i'm not the mothering type. I don't like taking care of people. Even non-medical stuff. I guess that makes me sound selfish but I'm just not cut out for that kind of thing.


No problem - wasn't my cup of tea either. Good luck finding something. I assume you understand that nothing is really going to be entirely to your liking. Work is going to suck to some extent regardless of what you do - though not working is going to suck to some extent as well. I think that's just life, hedonic treadmill and all. All you can do is try to choose something that optimizes all the different aspects of it for the best combination possible.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

Earth Goddess said:


> As my retirement money stands now, I think I will get $500 a month when I retire. Thats not even enough for half of a one bedroom apartment, lol Imagine how much they will be in 20 more years. That $500 will probably be my monthly utility bill by that time.


I would research low-income apartments for the elderly.

My grandmother lived in an elderly apartment for like 15 years or more. It was like a normal apartment, except only retired people were allowed to live in the building. And they would adjust rent for your income. TBH if I got old and had no where to live I'd go live in one of those. Every day they had optional meetups with food, in the building and it was a lot of fun for me as a small child.

Usually this sort of housing is backed by a government / city subsidy.



> I would actually love to be homeless, minus the part where I wouldn't be able to have stuff, lol I love to cook and eat healthy and you really can't do that if you don't have a kitchen and money to buy healthy food. I love to take pictures and if you're homeless you don't even have a plug in to charge your camera batteries or a computer to share your pictures with people. The other reason I won't be homeless is because my parents are too smothering. In order to stop them from smothering me and buying me things and helping me is to be independent and the only way to do that is have a job so you can support yourself by yourself and live on your own. If I quit my job and tried to live free like I want to, they wouldn't let me, they'd force me to live with them and they'd make me eat their food and they'd give me money and I am an adult not a child, I refuse to live like that again. Worst times of my life, when I had to live at home as an adult.


Yeah... that would suck. I was just thinking there might be a way to do a major change without being homeless. A creative solution maybe.

Some ideas:

1) Live-in maid ... only people you got to deal with is the family. If it is a rich family, you're going to be living in a nice house.

2) Reduce expenditures by living with a bunch of roommates (maybe that's too crazy for you?) I'm 31 and doing it, though lol


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Earth Goddess said:


> I've been trying this for years now, apparently i don't have what it takes to be an entrepreneur because everything I get interested in, I lose interest in


Most entrepreneurs are like this  But we still persist. If you have tried it and failed, maybe it just wasn't the right business. You just have to stick with it long enough until it is big enough to be able to hand off the day to day duties to someone else. 

I know you said you don't like web keep up, but blogging is always a fantastic option for a writer. If you can write well enough, it may compensate for writing blogs that are scattered in time. 

Going back to school is always an option, no matter what your age is. You can get a trained or professional career of some sort where you make whatever hours you want. And in the meantime you'll meet people who will let you travel with them and have adventures and such


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

sweetraglansweater said:


> what is preventing you from actually living?
> 
> do you really need the money?
> 
> ...


That sounds great for a few days or a week, but other things are really important to me like being able to cook my own healthy organic food. I also have a sleep disorder which prevents me from sleeping at night so the only time I can sleep is during the day and I need to sleep in a dark room with a comfy bed otherwise I don't sleep at all. I can't even sleep riding in a car even if i'm exhausted. I also value the people in my life and want to be able to see them on a regular basis, so moving south would only work if I had a lot of money and could fly home every month or two.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Serak said:


> You have a bigger problem here and everything I'm about to say is going to sound really mean.
> 
> No one, least of all you, can help you when you won't help yourself.
> 
> ...


Well, thanks for saying i'm a cool person otherwise, lol I guess I should be happy about that positive bit.

I don't know how to say this without sounding like i'm doing exactly what you said I would do, lol but i'll try; I'm too independent to marry someone just to have someone to support me, and I've been trying to find a partner for so long that I'm convinced it just isn't in the cards for me. I don't want to settle for someone who only wants sex, and I also can't force myself to fall in love with someone. So until the right guy comes along, I won't be with someone just for the sake of having someone. And as for changing myself, there is nothing wrong with my beliefs and values, it's just that it's hard to fit a square peg into a round hole, and the world is made of round holes that we're all expected to fit into. Changing, to me, is the equivalent of getting a lobotomy of the soul.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

AriesLilith said:


> @_Earth Goddess_, it seems that you are looking for a perfect path/job and you are not able to focus/specialize and put consistent, deeper effort on anything you came up with. Thing is, perfect conditions is almost impossible, if not impossible. The reality is as it is, with its available opportunities, but they don't bend and adapt to us 100%. We have to find out which available opportunities that we fit the most, and then adapt to it.
> 
> For example, if you find out something you can enjoy 70% of it (like taking photographs, having your own schedule as a freelancer, work whenever you want/need, build a portfolio online), and 30% of it you don't like (needing to dedicate to develop technical/artistic skills, deal with finding clients), then it's still good. Probably much better than your current situation too where you feel very miserable.
> 
> ...


I know people who have 100% perfect jobs for them, so I know it's possible. However, I know I have a long list of must haves which narrow them down too much (can't work mornings, can't deal with customers, need a minimum of $10 an hour, need ample time off to pursue my multiple hobbies, needs to be in my area so i'm still near my loved ones...unless I can make enough money to fly home on a regular basis, lol).



> By the way, I've read once somewhere that some people actually live without money in small communities. Perhaps you can check that out. They seem to live by trading stuffs with each other. For example, one builds furnitures, other hunts, other plants stuffs...


I have checked those out years ago, they're more rare than you'd think. There is a directory that has them all listed but there was nothing near me, well one was but you have to pay $10,000 to join it. Kinda defeats the purpose of not needing money, lol


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Schizoid said:


> @_Earth Goddess_:
> 
> I suspect the underlying issue of everything isn't really about the job itself, but there could be a deeper issue beneath everything.
> I believe that the reason you are unable to feel passionate about your job as well as your lack of motivation/drive is probably because there is an underlying medical issue, such as depression or adhd.
> ...


I actually did see a therapist a few times, this was back when I was depressed because I had to live with my mom (for an independent introvert like me, that was torture!) I also told her about my sleep disorder and that was limiting me a lot with things I wanted to do. I have seen a sleep doctor for that and there is no cure, the only thing that works is to keep a nighttime schedule which I try to do as much as I can. But now i'm living on my own again so i'm not depressed anymore since I changed my living situation. But anyway, the therapist's advice was to focus more on getting a job (even though I was already checking 3 job sites twice a day). What a waste of money that was. I also got assistance through the state to find jobs for people with disabilities (which DSPS actually is) and their "help" was showing me a "special" job site which was one I had already been checking for years! Professionals are so overrated, everything they told me to do I was already doing and it wasn't helping.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

angelfish said:


> No problem - wasn't my cup of tea either. Good luck finding something. I assume you understand that nothing is really going to be entirely to your liking. Work is going to suck to some extent regardless of what you do - though not working is going to suck to some extent as well. I think that's just life, hedonic treadmill and all. All you can do is try to choose something that optimizes all the different aspects of it for the best combination possible.


I think being a perfectionist doesn't help, lol I find that I just can't enjoy life if I am dreading things on a regular basis. The only time i'm truly happy is between jobs when my future is wide open and there isn't some impending suffering coming all the time. I was on cloud 9 last week before I started this job, now I feel like i'm in a prison again. I just don't know how anyone can truly be happy feeling like this. Most people don't question it because it's been ingrained in us to accept blindly. But I question anything that doesn't jive with my soul. When you look down on Earth and see the beautiful water and trees and think 'wow what a beautiful place to explore and enjoy', well not when you're slaving away 75% of your life doing something you don't want to do just so you can afford to live on that beautiful planet that was given to us for FREE, but they had to invent money and needing a job to get money, ugh! lol Sorry I went off on a tangent there, I just can't help how I feel. My soul is crying out to jump off this merry go round that is the rat race so I can truly be free and happy.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Razare said:


> I would research low-income apartments for the elderly.
> 
> My grandmother lived in an elderly apartment for like 15 years or more. It was like a normal apartment, except only retired people were allowed to live in the building. And they would adjust rent for your income. TBH if I got old and had no where to live I'd go live in one of those. Every day they had optional meetups with food, in the building and it was a lot of fun for me as a small child.
> 
> Usually this sort of housing is backed by a government / city subsidy.


I am hoping when I retire to be able to live in an RV park in Florida, lol I want to be done with winters forever, and by then my parents will be gone and I will pay for my brother, nephews and friends to come visit me, lol



> Some ideas:
> 
> 1) Live-in maid ... only people you got to deal with is the family. If it is a rich family, you're going to be living in a nice house.


I am actually receiving the Caretaker Gazette, a publication that lists housesitting and petsitting jobs. So far the only thing close to me has been apartments looking for caretaker couples, so the man does the maintenance and the woman does the office work and cleaning. I would totally do that but, i'm single.



> 2) Reduce expenditures by living with a bunch of roommates (maybe that's too crazy for you?) I'm 31 and doing it, though lol


I did this a few times, I lived with my ex boyfriend and then I lived with a friend. I would do it again if I could find someone who is ok with my schedule but most people dont like that I come and go during the night and do my cooking & exercising at night, etc. I also can't sleep living in a place with people up during the day which 99% of people are. This damn sleep disorder is usually the main issue all my other issues come back to. I even lost one job due to it. But no use worrying about that, that's something I can't change.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

ElectricSparkle said:


> Most entrepreneurs are like this  But we still persist. If you have tried it and failed, maybe it just wasn't the right business. You just have to stick with it long enough until it is big enough to be able to hand off the day to day duties to someone else.
> 
> I know you said you don't like web keep up, but blogging is always a fantastic option for a writer. If you can write well enough, it may compensate for writing blogs that are scattered in time.


I still have my blogs, but after losing interest I can't bring myself to even think of anything to write anymore. I also have greatly diminished free time now, starting Monday. Unless I quit this job, too, lol



> Going back to school is always an option, no matter what your age is. You can get a trained or professional career of some sort where you make whatever hours you want. And in the meantime you'll meet people who will let you travel with them and have adventures and such


I can't tell you how many months I spent researching school. I have about 20 areas of interest I would love to go to school for, but picking just one has proved impossible because then I can't do the other 19, lol I am also against racking up debt, one of my biggest values is living frugally. I have taken some online classes though (since I can't do them in person due to my sleep disorder), I took a class on natural health, 2 classes on photography, and a class on herbalism. But they were all cheap, one was even free. I get really excited about finding free information, so I love libraries, buying cheap books on Amazon, and finding cheap or free classes online. Unfortunately, you can't claim that as knowledge (no degree) so it's only useful in your personal life for hobbies and stuff.


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## sweetraglansweater (Jul 31, 2015)

Earth Goddess said:


> That sounds great for a few days or a week, but other things are really important to me like being able to cook my own healthy organic food. I also have a sleep disorder which prevents me from sleeping at night so the only time I can sleep is during the day and I need to sleep in a dark room with a comfy bed otherwise I don't sleep at all. I can't even sleep riding in a car even if i'm exhausted. I also value the people in my life and want to be able to see them on a regular basis, so moving south would only work if I had a lot of money and could fly home every month or two.


cooking your organic food and sleeping in your current enviorment are not fixing your sleep issues. 

It would be better if you took of three months of your life and went to a warm climate country and did 0 work and got your health back than if you kept slaving away as you are now. You are trying to use small creature comforts to bail out a sinking ship. Ain't going to happen.

I say this because I know. After working my butt off for a long time I started to have bad sleep problems. Nothing fixed it. It turned out I had adrenal fatigue/insufficiency, which sounds similar to what you are experiencing. Look it up: its' real and terrible and the consequences if not dealt with can be fatal. Many Americans get it because we are overworked and miserable.

I took my doc's advice, sold my shit and took a year off of life. I backpacked about 5-10 miles a day. Believe me, you CAN sleep when your body does real, healthy activity. I was very weak so I took my time walking, often resting as I needed to. Within a month I was noticeably better. By three I was sleeping mostly normally and had regained a lot of stamina, though I would still have cortisol crashes. Moreover I was happy and I found my purpose to life again and I also discovered what I wanted to do for work. I got to date some great people and meet a guy who taught me about meditation. Life gave me everything I needed because I had faith and hope that there was something good if I would just seek it out.

You can't mediate between 'stuff' and your health. At some point your body's inability to sleep is going to catch up with you and start to exact its revenge. Nobody is saying you have to stay away from your family permanently. Taking a year to step back from life is a great thing and you don't need bonkers of money for it. 

You'll find a solution to this totally fixable problem when you're ready to make the necessary decisions to have better health, whatever they may be. You have the answers inside of you. Maybe a vac-ay isn't YOUR answer but there is AN answer. You just need to stop whining and reclaim your power and buck up to the responsibility of the shitty situation you've allowed yourself to get inured to. When you acknowledge your responsibility and take the power back only then can you get angry and forgive yourself and move forward onto bigger and better things.

You admitted you had this problem: that's the first step. You're going to do great, chica. Just learn the lesson quickly.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Oh man that sounds awesome. I know I would definitely benefit from something like that.

I've read where business men lose themselves amongst thier business and all of thier shit They spend some time out in the woods " just existing" they say it changes everything and they can't / don't want to go back to thier former lives. I think everyone should try this once.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

@Earth Goddess,

I started to write a bunch of stuff that I thought could be helpful, but I went back and reread your OP and you yourself said that you're just venting. So yeah, I can relate to an extent. Sometimes I feel frustrated by the idea of working for such a huge percentage of my life. But then I've been reading stories of refugee life lately and I'm more aware of how much I take for granted a steady job, a secure home, and the safety of my family. I don't think it's true that most people haven't thought about escaping the "rat race", and it's a little condescending to believe that most people live half-conscious, blind lives. I think that most people have just decided that they can probably create a reasonably happy life that includes working ~40 hours a week. They get some happiness at work and some happiness outside of work. 

At least for me personally I feel like my own struggle is not that I have to work - I usually like working well enough and I get bored without it. But I have a lot of feelings of responsibility and need-to-measure up that are weighing heavy on me. It seems like the work I enjoy isn't the work that is particularly lucrative or respected. I worry a lot about not having a stable life and about letting my parents and partner down. I guess we all have our demons. 

I do hope you can reorient in a way that makes you happier. Besides the very very few people lucky enough to be born into families with vast wealth (which apparently has its own somewhat surprising problems - I've been reading about that recently), we all have to put in a little legwork to have the money to travel and do exciting activities outside of work. Maybe you could work part-time in the back of an organic grocery store, or as a cook at a hippie restaurant, or anything that can integrate a tiny bit of what makes you happy into work.


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## yentipeee (Jun 19, 2013)

I bet Jesus was like you, he didn’t want to be a full time woodworker. He liked to make occasional speeches, the odd miracle, bashing the moneychangers and leading a pure life. Though I’m sure, for Jesus retirement in an RV park on the coast of Galilee was out of the question.:tongue:


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

@_Earth Goddess_

I myself can't imagine working in a factory. Why do you think this is the right path for you? Noone works in a factory unless they have no other alternative. 

What degrees/qualifications do you have? It sounds like you never went to college, based on the choice of jobs you list having had. This isn't any kind of reproach towards you. I myself, after graduating high school ignored my parents' advice and skipped college, but right now I regret it, even though I'm now working on my two year degree(I'm 32). 

I haven't had a romantic or sexual partner in years either, partly because I've been isolated from society for so long. 

I realized it was a mistake not to go to college or get a degree because the only jobs you can get, nowadays are tough, stressful, physically demanding jobs. And usually the intellectual and cultural level of people who you meet at such jobs is low as they aeren't themselves very educated(though there are exceptions). 

You may not have been lucky in not finding a boyfriend, as I may not have been lucky in finding a girlfriend either. But both of us have something to our advantage is that we don't have kids and that allows me to go back to school. 

Yeah, its tough, because I have a hard time working most jobs I've tried since I react badly to stress and most student jobs are stressful, so I hesitate in working right now.

I have had the same problem as you, never liking my work, workplaces, or colleagues and yeah I find the work related world needlessly harsh(I relate to what you say). I can only offer my best advice, and try to help.

Also, I hope that what I write hasn't been brought up before, sorry if it has, I just skimmed over most of the thread, lol. Best of luck to you.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Earth Goddess said:


> I'm gonna be blunt; I hate working. I know most people feel this way and would prefer to be lazy and sit around the house rather than work but I believe this goes deeper and is causing me depression. I'm not lazy, I want to travel and do fun things, not sit on the couch, so that's not the reason I hate work. I am 43 and have had 9 jobs in my life and have never felt like it was something I could do forever. Most of my jobs I stayed at for only a few months. I have tried all the jobs I can get and I just can't seem to find something that makes life bearable. Every time between jobs I get excited for the next one, thinking it will finally be the one that I can tolerate enough to keep. But a few days after being at a job, the inevitable sets in and I get depressed.
> 
> I have tried working in 3 different factories, a fast food place, 2 hotels, a teenage shelter, restaurant, and a retail store. I am an INFJ, Enneagram type 5w4, so i'm introverted and have anxiety when it comes to talking on the phone, dealing with customers, that sort of thing. I am on my 3rd try with factory work right now which i've only been at for 3 days and already I am wanting to quit. Yes factory work is great for introverts but the problem is it's soul-sucking, cold, industrial, unhealthy, monotonous, and there is always so much overtime. Right now at this job I have to work 10 hours M-F plus 11-5 on Saturdays. So I just came from retail where I didn't make enough money and was stressed out dealing with phones and customers, but I had enough time off to have a life and get things done...and now I will have enough money but no time to do anything. My one day off will be used to do grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning, yard work, etc. and i'll never see my family or friends unless I quit (they live too far away to just stop over, it would be an hour round trip to go there). But if I quit, I will be stuck again doing minimum wage probably dealing with customers again.
> 
> ...







<.< we are all certain of one thing. We are marked for death, it is inevitable, so the question is what will you do in the time you have left?

I'm in a similar situation and the above is the answer I found. Ima continue to work till next year february, then quit ans start my own thing in a area of work I enjoy doing. IF I manage, then good, if not, then off tot he next thing. ^^ gonna have sex while I can have sex.

There is no point in doing unpleasant robotic, unfulfilling things period. You have to find a way out and I'm guessing that process will be interesting.


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## homeoftheheart (Oct 1, 2015)

Venting aside. I believe your depression and anxiety are inhibiting your ability to think clearly about what steps to take in life next. I recommend addressing these issues first. Talk to other people in your life that are positive and can snap you out of your negative thinking pattern. 

I also don't think the job you are is a good fit, it may be away from people but it sounds physically demanding and mentally exhausting. And if you already feel this strongly, leave now. I don't know much about sleeping disorders but I believe my brother has this issue as well, and the lack of sleep at weird times definitely contributes to feelings of depression from what I've witnessed. 

Exercise increases energy and motivation, spend time in nature, reflect, and develop a course of action for a new job.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

sweetraglansweater said:


> cooking your organic food and sleeping in your current enviorment are not fixing your sleep issues.
> 
> It would be better if you took of three months of your life and went to a warm climate country and did 0 work and got your health back than if you kept slaving away as you are now. You are trying to use small creature comforts to bail out a sinking ship. Ain't going to happen.
> 
> ...


You must have missed my post where I explained my sleep disorder. It isn't from being overworked and miserable, it's called Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder. I've had it since I was like 5 years old. It's where my body's circadian rhythm is delayed from a normal one, instead of getting tired when the sun goes down and waking up when the sun is up, I don't get tired until some people are even getting up for the day, then I can't wake up and function normally unless it's afternoon or later. It gets worse as you get older too, so where as a kid I would sleep from 10 or 11 until 7 or 8, now I generally sleep from 5 or 6 am until noon or 1pm or even later, depending on if I have to get up for a job or not. For many years I worked overnights and then I would sleep from 9 am until 5 or 6 pm. This doesn't affect my quality of sleep at all, I still sleep wonderfully for the entire time, it's just that I need to be sleeping when my body is ready to, not when the clock or the sun says it's time to sleep. So that is the reason I can't have a job working the day shift, or can't go to college which is mostly day classes. It wasn't so drastic when I was a kid, but I still wouldn't get out of bed until my parents literally carried me out and dressed me. Then I would sleep on the bus, and get bad grades in school because I wasn't able to finish sleeping. One job I had forced me to work at 7 am for 2 weeks, and I wasn't even a week in and I was in the hospital with sleep deprivation. I was only getting 1 or 2 hours a night and I couldn't even drive so someone had to take me to the hospital. They finally realized it was serious then, and then I saw a sleep doctor who officially diagnosed it and gave me a note for my boss to put me back on nights.

Anyway, that may have been long winded, lol But I thought i'd explain it better since this has nothing to do with me being unhappy working or anything else. It makes a lot of things impossible though, I can't even go camping because I get woken up by the sun and everyone in the campground after i've only been asleep an hour or two, if at all. Staying in hotels is also really hard because check out time is 11 or noon so I would only get a few hours of sleep then too. Kinda ruins my vacations, I love to travel and would love nothing more than to travel on a regular basis but then I am pretty much going to be sleep deprived the whole time.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Fumetsu said:


> Oh man that sounds awesome. I know I would definitely benefit from something like that.
> 
> I've read where business men lose themselves amongst thier business and all of thier shit They spend some time out in the woods " just existing" they say it changes everything and they can't / don't want to go back to thier former lives. I think everyone should try this once.


Yeah, that would be cool to be able to do that. I read Walden and was so jealous he was able to do that. The way society is set up it just makes it so hard, nowadays they keep track of you so much, you can't just go rogue. Like it's a law to have health insurance now which means you have to either have a job that provides it or you need to pay for it every month, and if you don't you get fined when you do your taxes, and you have to have an address too, you can't just say "I live outside", lol


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

angelfish said:


> I don't think it's true that most people haven't thought about escaping the "rat race", and it's a little condescending to believe that most people live half-conscious, blind lives. I think that most people have just decided that they can probably create a reasonably happy life that includes working ~40 hours a week. They get some happiness at work and some happiness outside of work.


I don't remember saying most people are half conscious and blind, maybe something I said was similar, I am sure most people think about this at least once, especially if they have a job they hate or struggling with finding work like I do. I just mean that the way society is set up, it forces us to live like this whether we like it or not so if you rebel against this norm, people look down on you like you're dragging down the rest of humanity or something and they tell you to suck it up, everyone else does. That just bothers me. Someone who feels the same as me once told me that they only act that way because they don't want you to drop out of the rat race, they want everyone to suffer along with them. Maybe, but either way, it sucks dealing with people when I tell them I feel this way.



> At least for me personally I feel like my own struggle is not that I have to work - I usually like working well enough and I get bored without it. But I have a lot of feelings of responsibility and need-to-measure up that are weighing heavy on me. It seems like the work I enjoy isn't the work that is particularly lucrative or respected. I worry a lot about not having a stable life and about letting my parents and partner down. I guess we all have our demons.


I have some of this too, like I always think when my parents are gone, I will quit working entirely and really do what I want, because then I won't have anyone to explain myself to. I already have a strained relationship with my dad because he thinks i'm too independent so he would probably keel over from stress worrying about me if I lived my life travelling around the world all the time. He hates when I just leave town, lol



> Maybe you could work part-time in the back of an organic grocery store, or as a cook at a hippie restaurant, or anything that can integrate a tiny bit of what makes you happy into work.


Those sound like good ideas! I actually almost applied to a health food store but the reason I didn't was because they needed someone who could work mornings and I can't because of my sleep disorder. But the other reason was because I can't afford to live on my own unless i'm making a full time wage at over $10 an hour. I have noticed all the appealing jobs are only part time which sucks because I would LOVE to do them but then i'm pretty much stuck living at home with my mom and that is my worst nightmare.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Take the morning job.

It'll motivate you to do something about your sleeping issues. I know it seems impossible but a lot of people have health problems that they just have find a way around. 

I know that probably sounds dismissive but it's unfortunately the way it is. The world will not accommodate you. If you really, really want something you have to find a way to make it work for you.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Typhon said:


> @_Earth Goddess_
> 
> I myself can't imagine working in a factory. Why do you think this is the right path for you? Noone works in a factory unless they have no other alternative.


Well it all started when I was out of high school, I was 18 and working at McDonalds. I was fine with that, because I lived at home and didn't have to pay rent and liked only working a few hours a night and I never had to deal with customers there (I got kicked off the register cuz I sucked so bad at it, lol) but my dad didn't want me to work at Mcdonalds forever, and he was a big wig at the local factory that employed a thousand people. So he arranged for me to have an interview, but of course since he was friends with the lady who did the hiring, it was barely an interview at all, in fact my dad was in there with us and we just sat around and talked about random stuff, lol So I worked there from age 19 until they laid off in 2009 when the recession hit. That job was AWESOME though, every job was super easy and most of them were actually fun. It wasn't like factories like you see on tv where people are in protective suits and masks and they're all dirty and sweaty. One of the jobs I had there was sitting at a table with 3 other people and folders would come down on a belt with a piece of tape with glue on it and we would simply glue it down. It was like sitting hanging out with friends. I made some of the best friends of my life there. I guess i'm realizing now that I was happy back then even though at the time I felt like I would rather be doing something else, but it was so easy and paid $14 an hour and all my friends were there as well as half the city I lived in. People would even drive from an hour away to work there. After I got laid off, I struggled for the next 6 years bouncing from one job to another, and I realized pretty much all there is is customer service. That is why I'm back in a factory again now. It is so nice knowing I don't have to answer a phone, help a customer, check out a long line of crabby people, all I have to do is stand in my corner and do my thing by myself. I actually was trained in on a different position tonight which I like, so as long as I can do that position i'll be happy, lol The position I had last week I was told was the worst one in the place, so nobody would like it. 



> What degrees/qualifications do you have? It sounds like you never went to college, based on the choice of jobs you list having had. This isn't any kind of reproach towards you. I myself, after graduating high school ignored my parents' advice and skipped college, but right now I regret it, even though I'm now working on my two year degree(I'm 32).


I've never been to college, no. During high school they were all like 'what do you want to do now' and my answer was always "Sleep in til noon, hang out with my friends, go to concerts and listen to music" lol Then my dad got me the factory job which back then was like finding the holy grail of jobs in my town, so I was just happy I could work the evening shift, make good money, talk to my friends/coworkers all day, and never thought about college. But now my reasons for not going are mostly because of my sleep disorder and also I am against having debt. I have heard too many people say they regretted college because of that, and they lost interest in their major, which I know I would do too because I lose interest in everything, even things I love. I just like to rotate between all my hobbies, I don't like to do just one every day all the time.



> I haven't had a romantic or sexual partner in years either, partly because I've been isolated from society for so long.


Yep, I can relate! Well I am a part of society but the number of people I meet is still so small, I pretty much only meet new coworkers and most of them I don't like. Since i'm an introvert, most people think i'm stuck up. But I am just not talkative unless someone talks to me and we have things in common or at least we mesh well as far as our personalities. I don't like loud obnoxious people, and I don't like men who use women for sex which seems to be most of what's out there. Now it's been 15 years since i've even had sex and i'm sure that turns men off too, they want someone experienced and wild in bed. Oh well, I'd rather be alone than be with someone who is wrong for me.



> I realized it was a mistake not to go to college or get a degree because the only jobs you can get, nowadays are tough, stressful, physically demanding jobs. And usually the intellectual and cultural level of people who you meet at such jobs is low as they aeren't themselves very educated(though there are exceptions).


Well the stressful physically demanding part isn't always true, all 3 of my factory jobs were so easy a 7 year old could do them. But you're right about the kind of people that work in factories, and yeah there are exceptions. Most of them their lives consist of working, sleeping, eating, watching tv, and gossiping. They don't have hobbies or a mind of their own or maturity to talk about subjects rather than people. That is why I love the internet, I can always find like minded people on here, lol



> You may not have been lucky in not finding a boyfriend, as I may not have been lucky in finding a girlfriend either. But both of us have something to our advantage is that we don't have kids and that allows me to go back to school.


Hallelujah! lol Having a kid would ruin my life. In fact that is a huge reason why I don't have sex much because I don't trust birth control and I REALLY don't want kids, ever. It's getting to be too late now for me anyway, since I'm 43, lol Having this sleep disorder would totally not work with kids, either, since I am pretty much out of commission all morning. And I don't have the mental energy for kids, being an introvert I need quiet more than most people. Even being with my nephews for a few hours drains me.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

FreeBeer said:


> <.< we are all certain of one thing. We are marked for death, it is inevitable, so the question is what will you do in the time you have left?
> 
> I'm in a similar situation and the above is the answer I found. Ima continue to work till next year february, then quit ans start my own thing in a area of work I enjoy doing. IF I manage, then good, if not, then off tot he next thing. ^^ gonna have sex while I can have sex.
> 
> There is no point in doing unpleasant robotic, unfulfilling things period. You have to find a way out and I'm guessing that process will be interesting.


I love Alan Watts!  Yeah I know in the grand scheme of things spending the majority of your life doing unpleastant robotic unfullfilling things is bad, but until I can figure out a way to life the lifestyle I want without doing this, it'll have to do. It's certainly better than customer service which caused me so much stress I would get sweaty, dry mouth, stomach aches, headaches, etc.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

homeoftheheart said:


> I also don't think the job you are is a good fit, it may be away from people but it sounds physically demanding and mentally exhausting. And if you already feel this strongly, leave now.


It's not physically or mentally demanding, really. Well the position I was doing last week was crappy because I was spending so much time with a giant water hose spraying stuff so I got wet and the hose is heavy so my wrist hurt, but trust me I would rather do that than customer service again. Tonight though, well this whole week, I will be doing a different job which is awesome. In fact my night flew by, 10 hours felt like 5 or 6. Every time I looked at the clock it was time for the next break already. I am a lot happier knowing I can do this position along with the other one, at least there is a bright side to my job now.



> I don't know much about sleeping disorders but I believe my brother has this issue as well, and the lack of sleep at weird times definitely contributes to feelings of depression from what I've witnessed.


Yeah along with this disorder comes depression for most people who have it, but it's only because of how hard it is to get through life, since society is set up to start with the sun and end when the sun goes down. Also a lot of people don't understand it so they give us a hard time saying we're just lazy. There are actually groups on Facebook for this and I am a member of 2 of them. Your brother might have it, have him check out this site; DSPS Q&A - Circadian Sleep Disorders Network



> Exercise increases energy and motivation, spend time in nature, reflect, and develop a course of action for a new job.


It is so hard to exercise after 10 hours of standing on your feet, lol I usually am too busy cooking, cleaning, and getting errands done for the next day. In fact I should be going to bed soon but I am catching up in here. Spending time in nature is pretty much impossible for me now, my only free time is in the middle of the night but i'm busy. I have Sundays off but those are the only days I can go grocery shopping and see family and friends. I guess I will keep trying to find a good paying job that doesn't involve so many hours, but in the meantime I'll save up as much money as I can, maybe something will change next year.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Fumetsu said:


> Take the morning job.
> 
> It'll motivate you to do something about your sleeping issues. I know it seems impossible but a lot of people have health problems that they just have find a way around.
> 
> I know that probably sounds dismissive but it's unfortunately the way it is. The world will not accommodate you. If you really, really want something you have to find a way to make it work for you.


You must have missed my post where I said working mornings for barely a week had me in the hospital. I physically cannot work mornings. This disorder doesn't go away, that is why my doctor told my boss I need to be working nights.


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)

if you're wise you'll take my advice. be poor and lower class and just do low paying odd jobs every once and a while. fuck having a family, fuck having a career, and fuck going to college. It's all just a sham.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Kytaari said:


> if you're wise you'll take my advice. be poor and lower class and just do low paying odd jobs every once and a while. fuck having a family, fuck having a career, and fuck going to college. It's all just a sham.


lol I've already said fuck having all those things...however I can't be independent doing low paying odd jobs though. I am living in the cheapest trailer park I have found in my entire state, and I STILL need a full time job paying at least $10 an hour just to make all my bills.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Well, the broken down version of it simply sound like wrongly placed priorities.

Work in and of itself does not necessarily deprive you of any of the things you seem to currently be missing in/expecting of life. Yes, it's 8 hrs/day I, too, would much rather spent differently but outside of that? Nope, it's not exactly hindering me.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Erbse said:


> Well, the broken down version of it simply sound like wrongly placed priorities.
> 
> Work in and of itself does not necessarily deprive you of any of the things you seem to currently be missing in/expecting of life. Yes, it's 8 hrs/day I, too, would much rather spent differently but outside of that? Nope, it's not exactly hindering me.


Actually it's 10 hours a day and I only get one day off a week. But unlike people who have normal circadian rhythms, I can't spend my free time doing things. My day is spent sleeping, then right away rushing to work as soon as I get up. When I get off work, nothing is open, everyone is sleeping, it's time to wind down for the night. So my life really is work and sleep for 6 days then run errands on the 7th day. lol I sound like the bible...only on the 7th day I can't rest, lol


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Earth Goddess said:


> Actually it's 10 hours a day and I only get one day off a week. But unlike people who have normal circadian rhythms, I can't spend my free time doing things. My day is spent sleeping, then right away rushing to work as soon as I get up. When I get off work, nothing is open, everyone is sleeping, it's time to wind down for the night. So my life really is work and sleep for 6 days then run errands on the 7th day. lol I sound like the bible...only on the 7th day I can't rest, lol


Just like anyone in the tech industry who works at least ten hours a day.


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## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> I'm not religious at all, never had my prayers answered even when I was.


I think you should try to interpret good coincidences as his blessings... After all, that's how religion works.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Fumetsu said:


> Just like anyone in the tech industry who works at least ten hours a day.


Well, fortunately enough I'm in Europe where there's only 40 hours a week and I typically leave my work space the instant the click says 8 hours. That said, 8 hours is about the maximum I'd personally put up with, too.



> Wer von seinem Tag nicht zwei Drittel für sich selbst hat, ist ein Sklave - Nietzsche


"He who doesn't have two-thirds of his day to himself, is a slave"

Funnily enough he figured that out 150 years ago.

I realize that the mentality is different in the US, different however does not necessarily mean 'better' by any means. My condolences, if anything.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Earth Goddess


> I don't know what kind of advice anyone could even give me, I'm just venting I guess. *Can anyone else relate?*


yes! I hate working, have the circadian rhythm of a vampire and have chronically low energy. I would much rather sit around drinking tea, being entertained and having sex all day than actually working, and stringent external demands drain the shit out of me.

I don't want to be like one of those old, dismissive conservatives who says "go back to school!", especially since "I haven't had a boyfriend in 15 years" implies you have a fair amount of work experience and aren't exactly at the beginning of your career, but have you considered it? Naturally, there are a number of life circumstances which might prevent this, but as an INFJ 5w4, you're likely a pretty intellectual type, so, imo, it's an option worth looking into if you haven't already.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Erbse said:


> Well, fortunately enough I'm in Europe where there's only 40 hours a week and I typically leave my work space the instant the click says 8 hours. That said, 8 hours is about the maximum I'd personally put up with, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The fuck is you're deal? 
I wasn't attacking you, I wasn't even addressing you. 

I certainly don't think it's " better" and I don't even work at a tech company. I just know people who do.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Fumetsu said:


> The fuck is you're deal?
> I wasn't attacking you, I wasn't even addressing you.
> 
> I certainly don't think it's " better" and I don't even work at a tech company. I just know people who do.


The question about 'my deal' is one you should ask yourself.

Obviously you haven't attacked me. Neither have I attacked you however, so what exactly 'is my (fucking) deal'? Or rather, what's yours?

I'm confused.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

@Earth Goddess: 

By the way, I found something interesting earlier, I think you might find this below idea interesting too:

How to Plan a Sabbatical-Style Career Break

Maybe you can do the same thing like what was written in the article. Work for a few years, and then take a sabbatical style career break for half a year and travel around the world, and then go back to work again for the next few years, and then take a break and travel again. Haha, this is what I'm planning to do. This is the only way for me to feel motivated at work. I think you should try out this method too. :kitteh:


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

yet another intj said:


> I think you should try to interpret good coincidences as his blessings... After all, that's how religion works.


I'm not religious at all (I'm Wiccan/Pantheist if you can't tell by my username, lol). It isn't that I don't feel gratitude for my blessings, and I do recognize them, but i'm only talking about work here, the fact that 99% of people wouldn't work if they didn't have to but the WHY we have to is what I'm getting at here. It's a giant trap we're born into and most people complain about it but we've all been forced to accept it and deal with it which is why there is so much depression and anxiety. If you can't make your bills, can't be home enough to see your kids, can't afford food, whatever, those are the things that cause people to steal, commit crimes, see therapists, kill themselves, etc.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Erbse said:


> Well, fortunately enough I'm in Europe where there's only 40 hours a week and I typically leave my work space the instant the click says 8 hours. That said, 8 hours is about the maximum I'd personally put up with, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah the US should have that rule too. Actually there's a country that only works like 20 or 30 hours a week, I forget which one it was. and I love that quote, that is so true...right now my fraction is even lower than that. It's ok for a little bit but not the whole 50 years of your adult life.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_Earth Goddess_
> 
> yes! I hate working, have the circadian rhythm of a vampire and have chronically low energy. I would much rather sit around drinking tea, being entertained and having sex all day than actually working, and stringent external demands drain the shit out of me.


I'm so glad someone said this, lol YES YES YES.



> I don't want to be like one of those old, dismissive conservatives who says "go back to school!", especially since "I haven't had a boyfriend in 15 years" implies you have a fair amount of work experience and aren't exactly at the beginning of your career, but have you considered it? Naturally, there are a number of life circumstances which might prevent this, but as an INFJ 5w4, you're likely a pretty intellectual type, so, imo, it's an option worth looking into if you haven't already.


I've already explained why I haven't gone back to school, but if you don't have time to read all the posts, I'll put it in a nutshell; I'm against going into debt and I also can't find a college that has only night classes and I also can't narrow it down to just one or two things, ideally I would love to go to school for like 20 different things.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Schizoid said:


> @_Earth Goddess_:
> 
> By the way, I found something interesting earlier, I think you might find this below idea interesting too:
> 
> ...


I'll have to read this after work (gotta run as soon as I post this) but the reason I haven't done anything like that is because I constantly need money, I get depressed when I have to live with my mom. I'm 43 and very independent and need my alone time, so if I am not constantly earning a big enough paycheck to afford my own place, that's when life isn't even worth it to me anymore.


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## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> It isn't that I don't feel gratitude for my blessings, and I do recognize them, but i'm only talking about work here, the fact that 99% of people wouldn't work if they didn't have to but the WHY we have to is what I'm getting at here.


That sounds reasonable only if they are young and never had a job. The thing is, subconsciousness is quite awkward about our subtle relationship with routines. Needless to say that struggles are not an exception. Reductio ad absurdum prevails and the retirement blues is the last thing you can relate with if you are still working. Ironically, it's also the most common phenomenon among the liberated members of working class.

Especially the people who served in military are the ones who "genuinely" slapped with that ridiculous situation when they finally reach the comfort of civilian life: "_We landed in El Paso, Texas and said hello to America. We put on normal clothes, Laced something other than combat boots and PT shoes, and Hopped in vehicles that weren’t MIne Resistant. Something felt missing and couldn’t explain what it was. Unlocking the door to our barracks room felt unreal. Eating jack in the box couldn’t compare to taco Tuesday on FOB Arian. The shopping mall didnt give you the same excitement as the PX on FOB Sharana. The comforts of America no longer made us feel normal.This wasn’t where we belonged. We became home sick for the place we never thought we would call home._" Andy Mez

Nothing is simply a job. It's an experience and you are sacrificing a part of yourself while sharing a very specific frustration with your colleagues. Eventually, your job will fill the emptiness inside you, the one that you created with your sacrifice. Once again, I'm not sure if any one of those things made sense by any means because there's no way to explain and make you understand how and why you were enjoying whatever suffering unknowingly, if you are still suffering from it anyway.



Earth Goddess said:


> It's a giant trap we're born into and most people complain about it but we've all been forced to accept it and deal with it which is why there is so much depression and anxiety. If you can't make your bills, can't be home enough to see your kids, can't afford food, whatever, those are the things that cause people to steal, commit crimes, see therapists, kill themselves, etc.


Nothing is free in nature... Ironically, the one you are experiencing right now as a torment is the mildest, the most humane form of survival.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

No that isn't true.

I haven't worked in six years. It's depressing as hell. I actually don't have any reason to get out of bed in the morning. I have no purpose, no goal to achieve and no way to socialize.

It was fun for a month or so but then I just didn't know what to do with myself. I'm sure most people would feel the same.


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## Tucken (Dec 13, 2009)

it has come to my attention that people hate themselves. 

if you know how to hate yourself, that's cool, then you know the practise to feel anything else of your choosing.

not that feeling things is gonna solve all of life's problems, or what would I know I never took it to its very end. but if you're so inclined there are these cool videos and techniques that could help anyone rid themselves of being trapped in misery because really there is no need to be trapped

for instance mr robbins
technique X "Try with simple experiments. For seven days try one simple experiment: feel your blood, your bones, your flesh, your body, filled with sadness...."

what else are you busy up to, hating yourself?


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

That sleep disorder sounds like a disability-level thing. It's so cruel and degenerate that vulnerable people are forced to work long hours in unhealthy conditions. What kind of society are we living in?


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

yet another intj said:


> Nothing is free in nature... Ironically, the one you are experiencing right now as a torment is the mildest, the most humane form of survival.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time#Hunter-gatherer


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

Earth Goddess said:


> Well it all started when I was out of high school, I was 18 and working at McDonalds. I was fine with that, because I lived at home and didn't have to pay rent and liked only working a few hours a night and I never had to deal with customers there (I got kicked off the register cuz I sucked so bad at it, lol) but my dad didn't want me to work at Mcdonalds forever, and he was a big wig at the local factory that employed a thousand people. So he arranged for me to have an interview, but of course since he was friends with the lady who did the hiring, it was barely an interview at all, in fact my dad was in there with us and we just sat around and talked about random stuff, lol So I worked there from age 19 until they laid off in 2009 when the recession hit. That job was AWESOME though, every job was super easy and most of them were actually fun. It wasn't like factories like you see on tv where people are in protective suits and masks and they're all dirty and sweaty. One of the jobs I had there was sitting at a table with 3 other people and folders would come down on a belt with a piece of tape with glue on it and we would simply glue it down. It was like sitting hanging out with friends. I made some of the best friends of my life there. I guess i'm realizing now that I was happy back then even though at the time I felt like I would rather be doing something else, but it was so easy and paid $14 an hour and all my friends were there as well as half the city I lived in. People would even drive from an hour away to work there. After I got laid off, I struggled for the next 6 years bouncing from one job to another, and I realized pretty much all there is is customer service. That is why I'm back in a factory again now. It is so nice knowing I don't have to answer a phone, help a customer, check out a long line of crabby people, all I have to do is stand in my corner and do my thing by myself. I actually was trained in on a different position tonight which I like, so as long as I can do that position i'll be happy, lol The position I had last week I was told was the worst one in the place, so nobody would like it.


I see, well, I wasn't trying to pass judgement on what you do. I respect it, I just thought you were the one who wasn't happy there. Thing is, if your dad got you the job, couldn't you have "climbed through the ranks", I mean, increase your position in the hierarchy of the factory? Easier said than done, I know, and I don't know if your dad still works there or not, or if anyone could help you accomplish that now.



> I've never been to college, no. During high school they were all like 'what do you want to do now' and my answer was always "Sleep in til noon, hang out with my friends, go to concerts and listen to music" lol Then my dad got me the factory job which back then was like finding the holy grail of jobs in my town, so I was just happy I could work the evening shift, make good money, talk to my friends/coworkers all day, and never thought about college. But now my reasons for not going are mostly because of my sleep disorder and also I am against having debt. I have heard too many people say they regretted college because of that, and they lost interest in their major, which I know I would do too because I lose interest in everything, even things I love. I just like to rotate between all my hobbies, I don't like to do just one every day all the time.


I'm like that too, losing interest in the things I love, then after awhile those interests come back, lol. Thats partly why its hard for me to follow through with my studies, but I also feel that its normal to have periods where you feel less interested or passionate about what you do, but you gotta do it anyways. If you like what you do 70 percent of the time, and dislike it 30 percent of the time, I think thats quiet the payoff. I understand about the price of higher education in the U.S.A(I'm from Europe so its alot more affordable), but there are options. Is there a community college where you live? Do you really need to get a major? Already a two, three, or four year degree could open alot of doors. Just some things to think about. I hear you about the sleep disorder, I don't know what you could do about that.

It also sounds like back in the day, during your first job at the factory, everything was "in place", and that now you are trying to recreate that? Like trying to go back to the past situation? I know, I'm playing the shrink here, but think about it, alot has probably changed since the first time you worked there!My point is, its not worth clinging to a past situation because that doesn't work - you can only move forward, to the "right" situation for you in the furture.







> Yep, I can relate! Well I am a part of society but the number of people I meet is still so small, I pretty much only meet new coworkers and most of them I don't like. Since i'm an introvert, most people think i'm stuck up. But I am just not talkative unless someone talks to me and we have things in common or at least we mesh well as far as our personalities. I don't like loud obnoxious people, and I don't like men who use women for sex which seems to be most of what's out there. Now it's been 15 years since i've even had sex and i'm sure that turns men off too, they want someone experienced and wild in bed. Oh well, I'd rather be alone than be with someone who is wrong for me.


I'm sure there is someone right for you out there. I'm sure you aeren't stuck up. I'm kind of an "introvert" myself (at least by behavioral standards, which seems to be what you're talking about), I find that taking initiative does help, even if I still try to pactice good psychological distance and not invade people too much, haha. Now, I don't know what could work for you, or how you will find that right person, but I hope you find him. But I get where you're coming from - I too have been single for so long its like " well, I can wait for the right person, its not like a few months without sex will change anything if I haven't had it in years", lol. But at the same time, I am actively looking, but its not easy because my circle is small too. So I get where you're coming from, I think.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

yet another intj said:


> Nothing is free in nature...


Actually, everything is. Do you see animals paying to live here? So why should we have to.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Fumetsu said:


> No that isn't true.
> 
> I haven't worked in six years. It's depressing as hell. I actually don't have any reason to get out of bed in the morning. I have no purpose, no goal to achieve and no way to socialize.
> 
> It was fun for a month or so but then I just didn't know what to do with myself. I'm sure most people would feel the same.


Then I would say you just need to get some hobbies, lol After I got laid off from my job of 18 years, I couldn't get anything else for 9 months but that 9 months was the best time of my life! I had time to explore my hobbies, educate myself for almost free (online and through books), I was able to spend more time with family and friends, I was able to exercise and sleep and go places anytime I wanted, it was heaven. If somebody needs a job in order to feel fullfilled in life, I'd say they're the one with the problem. Humans should be free to explore, create, enjoy, relax!


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Tucken said:


> it has come to my attention that people hate themselves.
> 
> if you know how to hate yourself, that's cool, then you know the practise to feel anything else of your choosing.
> 
> ...


Oh my...I don't want to even think about that "meditation"! How horrible, lol I don't want my thoughts to be about sadness and death and all that, I want to think happy thoughts as much as physically possible.

Not sure how to answer that part about hating yourself, it doesn't apply to me.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Earth Goddess said:


> Then I would say you just need to get some hobbies, lol After I got laid off from my job of 18 years, I couldn't get anything else for 9 months but that 9 months was the best time of my life! I had time to explore my hobbies, educate myself for almost free (online and through books), I was able to spend more time with family and friends, I was able to exercise and sleep and go places anytime I wanted, it was heaven. If somebody needs a job in order to feel fullfilled in life, I'd say they're the one with the problem. Humans should be free to explore, create, enjoy, relax!


I have many hobbies. They were fun for a while but they just don't cut it.


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## Tucken (Dec 13, 2009)

Earth Goddess said:


> Oh my...I don't want to even think about that "meditation"! How horrible, lol I don't want my thoughts to be about sadness and death and all that, I want to think happy thoughts as much as physically possible.
> 
> Not sure how to answer that part about hating yourself, it doesn't apply to me.


thats fortunate. there was another member, though. 

sadness is rich and deep, be a little sad, for the sake of scientific investigation  its a good way to overcome trapped-in-sadness, after all


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> That sleep disorder sounds like a disability-level thing. It's so cruel and degenerate that vulnerable people are forced to work long hours in unhealthy conditions. What kind of society are we living in?


It is considered a disability under the American Disability Act, but nobody I know that has it has been successful with actually getting disability benefits. Probably because it is possible to work, we just can't work mornings. It's just harder to find work, but not impossible. Out of the 9 or 10 jobs i've had in my life, only one involved getting up too early, so I'd say I've been pretty lucky, or resourceful, in finding jobs. I would feel like a deadbeat if I actually got supported by the state for having this disorder. It's one thing to believe all humans shouldn't have to work but it's another to actually get free money so I don't have to work.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_time#Hunter-gatherer


Ahhh...to live in those days again!  It would be better in almost every way, although I think I would miss the internet, lol It's the only way I can find like minded people.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Earth Goddess said:


> It is considered a disability under the American Disability Act, but nobody I know that has it has been successful with actually getting disability benefits. Probably because it is possible to work, we just can't work mornings. It's just harder to find work, but not impossible. Out of the 9 or 10 jobs i've had in my life, only one involved getting up too early, so I'd say I've been pretty lucky, or resourceful, in finding jobs. I would feel like a deadbeat if I actually got supported by the state for having this disorder. It's one thing to believe all humans shouldn't have to work but it's another to actually get free money so I don't have to work.


Yes, it is totally free, if you think your rights, privacy, confidence, sanity or freedom are worthless


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Typhon said:


> I see, well, I wasn't trying to pass judgement on what you do. I respect it, I just thought you were the one who wasn't happy there.


I was happy enough there, I guess...I didn't spring out of bed and look forward to my work day but the job wasn't stressful and I got paid good. I still longed for more free time to enjoy my hobbies, but that happens with any job. Sometimes I thought 'why am I working in a factory when i could be getting paid to be a photographer?' But I never had time to practice photography, in fact it wasn't until last year that I finally had enough money to buy a decent camera and had the time to really learn about it. Now I realize earning money from it is a long steady road, and I don't have the time to build a career now, nor do I have enough time to focus on just that. I also like a lot of other things so I have to do those too, so now that I'm working so much, I've pretty much packed away my camera knowing I might as well get used to not being able to enjoy it much anymore.



> Thing is, if your dad got you the job, couldn't you have "climbed through the ranks", I mean, increase your position in the hierarchy of the factory? Easier said than done, I know, and I don't know if your dad still works there or not, or if anyone could help you accomplish that now.


I am not interested in climbing corporate ladders, AT ALL. I am not a people person, even being a team leader is too much for me. I just want to do my own thing, not be in charge of anyone, not have too much responsibility. That factory has since closed, that is why they laid off because they were slowly reaching a point where they were just going to close down. 





> I'm like that too, losing interest in the things I love, then after awhile those interests come back, lol. Thats partly why its hard for me to follow through with my studies, but I also feel that its normal to have periods where you feel less interested or passionate about what you do, but you gotta do it anyways.


Yeah...I think losing interest may be a harsh way to put it though, maybe I should have said I was ready for a break so I could delve into something else. I have a list a mile long of hobbies I am interested in and I kinda bounce back and forth between them depending on which one I feel like at the time. For example in the summer I'm more into photography, in the winter I'm more into reading books and taking free online classes. Sometimes I like to do crafts. Sometimes I get obsessed with a subject and spend a week or a month just researching as much as I can about it. 



> Is there a community college where you live? Do you really need to get a major? Already a two, three, or four year degree could open alot of doors. Just some things to think about.


Community college isn't cheap either. There are a lot of them near me, but none are under $20,000 a year. I might as well go to a state university if i'm paying that much, lol That is why I like to scout for free education online, I have found a lot of free classes. Sure you don't get a degree but I'm all about getting things free or really cheap. Information should never come with a cost.



> It also sounds like back in the day, during your first job at the factory, everything was "in place", and that now you are trying to recreate that? Like trying to go back to the past situation? I know, I'm playing the shrink here, but think about it, alot has probably changed since the first time you worked there!My point is, its not worth clinging to a past situation because that doesn't work - you can only move forward, to the "right" situation for you in the furture.


lol Yeah kinda...my reasons are different though. Like then, I got the job because my dad didn't want me working at McDonalds forever, but now, I got this job because I want to earn as much money as I can while living as cheaply as I can so I can save more. Then someday possibly I might be able to squeak by working part time while living off what I saved. That's pretty much what I have been doing this whole year, actually. I earned about $2100 a month for almost 3 years at a job where I lived for free, also got all my food for free. So I was able to save up enough to pay off my credit card once and for all, I paid off my car, I bought a mobile home, and I still have $5000 left right now. I would have had $8000 but I had a $3000 car repair bill. That just killed me because I did have a warranty which should have paid for it, but they never asked for it and I thought when I picked my car up, they would do it then, but apparently they wouldn't accept it because the warranty place needed to know about the repairs BEFORE they were done, not after. Which is bullshit. Another stupid rule of life which is created just to screw people over.



> I'm sure there is someone right for you out there. I'm sure you aeren't stuck up. I'm kind of an "introvert" myself (at least by behavioral standards, which seems to be what you're talking about), I find that taking initiative does help, even if I still try to pactice good psychological distance and not invade people too much, haha. Now, I don't know what could work for you, or how you will find that right person, but I hope you find him. But I get where you're coming from - I too have been single for so long its like " well, I can wait for the right person, its not like a few months without sex will change anything if I haven't had it in years", lol. But at the same time, I am actively looking, but its not easy because my circle is small too. So I get where you're coming from, I think.


Yeah and as you get older, your circle gets even smaller. I have one real life friend who I actually do things with, and he's gay. So the only people I am ever with are him and his boyfriend. I had 2 single female friends but one got married and now won't even talk to me for some reason, and the other works 3 jobs and has even less free time than I do.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Apply for a FAFSA for community college It's pretty easy to qualify if you're low income.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

Earth Goddess said:


> Then I would say you just need to get some hobbies, lol After I got laid off from my job of 18 years, I couldn't get anything else for 9 months but that 9 months was the best time of my life! I had time to explore my hobbies, educate myself for almost free (online and through books), I was able to spend more time with family and friends, I was able to exercise and sleep and go places anytime I wanted, it was heaven. If somebody needs a job in order to feel fullfilled in life, I'd say they're the one with the problem. Humans should be free to explore, create, enjoy, relax!


I think that prosperity and short workhours and very low unemployment should be a result of the vast technological progress that occurred.
Instead of it, people are forced by sadistic maniacs to work long hours for peanuts and constantly terrorized with perspective of unemployment.



Earth Goddess said:


> It is considered a disability under the American Disability Act, but nobody I know that has it has been successful with actually getting disability benefits. Probably because it is possible to work, we just can't work mornings. It's just harder to find work, but not impossible. Out of the 9 or 10 jobs i've had in my life, only one involved getting up too early, so I'd say I've been pretty lucky, or resourceful, in finding jobs. I would feel like a deadbeat if I actually got supported by the state for having this disorder. It's one thing to believe all humans shouldn't have to work but it's another to actually get free money so I don't have to work.


You get a much lesser opportunities than people who work at day, though. It creates an even greater imbalance of power between you and employers than usual (and the usual is already unacceptable).

Personally, I wouldn't have qualms about accepting disability benefits, but then I have lost my health because of abuse by the society, so I'd see it as a form of damages (alas, I can't get any, so they are still liable to be object of my terrifying vengeance if the worst happens). Maybe people who have health problems for other reason see it differently.



Fumetsu said:


> Yes, it is totally free, if you think your rights, privacy, confidence, sanity or freedom are worthless


It depends where one lives. Here, disability pension requires a doctor commission check every few-several years. Didn't hear about any harassment of disabled people.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

It depends on many things. There are multiple kinds of disability.

And yes, I see it differently.

As much as my grandmother screams at me " You're entitled to more" that isn't true. I am entitled to nothing, the world does not owe me or anyone else.

My disabilities are not my fault but I am still just great fun to have what I do.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

Fumetsu said:


> I am entitled to nothing, the world does not owe me or anyone else.


Of course it doesn't. Everyone who is vulnerable should die on streets or be exploited and abused because no one is owed anything!

You're no longer needed? Goodbye, go and starve!
Someone else can work cheaper? Oh well, we don't have to pay you decent money!
We abused you until you can't work as reliably as others? Well, it's your responsibility! Have a nice homelessness and starvation!

You all make me sick. You're a band of savage animals fighting each other for survival, not real humans.

Why do I even bother talking to people? It's basically all so disgusting that it makes me sick for hours or for days. I probably should stop reading what other people write at all.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Of course it doesn't. Everyone who is vulnerable should die on streets or be exploited and abused because no one is owed anything!
> 
> You're no longer needed? Goodbye, go and starve!
> Someone else can work cheaper? Oh well, we don't have to pay you decent money!
> ...


Wow. That was unnessecery. 

When did ai say anyone should die? I believe that a government, or anyone who is capable _should_help those who need it, ideally.

But the world is not ideal and it isn't fair. If you live your life thinking the world owes you then you will be very disappointed. Without said entitlement I am content to live with what I have.

That is all I meant.

So calm the fuck down huh?


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## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> Do you see animals paying to live here?


Yes... Mostly paying with their lives.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> Actually, everything is. Do you see animals paying to live here? So why should we have to.


I guess that he meant that animals has to work too, as in hunting, gathering food and other chores.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Of course it doesn't. Everyone who is vulnerable should die on streets or be exploited and abused because no one is owed anything!
> 
> You're no longer needed? Goodbye, go and starve!
> Someone else can work cheaper? Oh well, we don't have to pay you decent money!
> ...


I guess that she didn't mean that weak or vulnerable people should die, but rather that help from other people is an act of goodness and compassion but we are not entitled to it?

For example, I grew up with the philosophy that while I can help people, it's not their responsibility nor they are obliged to take care of me. I don't think that I'm insensitive as I help and feel compassionate for people in need, but I don't responsibilize others but myself for my life. (not sure if I'm explaining it well)

But ideally would be great if more people care to work for a society where we can eventually take care of everyone. Working for long hours is crazy, we end up not having enough time for ourselves, while with technology and automatization more people are unemployed and we could divide the workload instead of companies reducing cost by cutting many employees while forcing a few ones to work a lot.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

well you are very convincing. i am totally convinced that you hate life until you retired. well hopefully you retire soon


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> I'm gonna be blunt; I hate working. I know most people feel this way and would prefer to be lazy and sit around the house rather than work but I believe this goes deeper_* and is causing me depression*_.


Why just believe it is causing you depression? Why don't you get a diagnosis, and hence, treatment? It is not a difficult process, in that sense. Hey, I am much younger than you are, and i accepted the diagnosis ages ago, but i got better afterward, but not just by complaining that i may be depressed or getting into depression but by taking steps to improve my situation. 



> I'm not lazy, I want to travel and do fun things, not sit on the couch, so that's not the reason I hate work. I am 43 and have had 9 jobs in my life and have never felt like it was something I could do forever. Most of my jobs I stayed at for only a few months. I have tried all the jobs I can get and I just can't seem to find something that makes life bearable.


If you find the jobs you are looking at unbearable, maybe it is best to take a break, and reconsider whether your career path is correct in the first place. Maybe it is also good to consider whether some educational opportunities are there, to figure out another career path. I've seen many people around 40 years old, who are trying their hand at degrees or diplomas, it is not uncommon. 



> Every time between jobs I get excited for the next one, thinking it will finally be the one that I can tolerate enough to keep. But a few days after being at a job, the inevitable sets in and I get depressed.
> I have tried working in 3 different factories, a fast food place, 2 hotels, a teenage shelter, restaurant, and a retail store. I am an INFJ, Enneagram type 5w4, so i'm introverted and have anxiety when it comes to talking on the phone, dealing with customers, that sort of thing. I am on my 3rd try with factory work right now which i've only been at for 3 days and already I am wanting to quit.


Probably because it's not a job, but THE particular job, that you are working in that is causing the depressed mood. Don't let yourself off easy on that point, presence* is improvement, and if you are at least talking on a phone, it means that you are good at talking on a phone. There is a thing called avoidance, if you were truly bad at taking calls, you would not be taking them at all. Having anxiety while talking on the phone may be part of the depression - you are anxious because you don't think having a low mood will get you through this experience - therapy can help, both of these things. (here are some free worksheets that were given to me during therapy, you can do them now, they may help: Centre for Clinical Interventions (CCI) - Psychotherapy, Research, Training)



> Yes factory work is great for introverts but the problem is it's soul-sucking, cold, industrial, unhealthy, monotonous, and there is always so much overtime. Right now at this job I have to work 10 hours M-F plus 11-5 on Saturdays. So I just came from retail where I didn't make enough money and was stressed out dealing with phones and customers, but I had enough time off to have a life and get things done...and now I will have enough money but no time to do anything. My one day off will be used to do grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning, yard work, etc. and i'll never see my family or friends unless I quit (they live too far away to just stop over, it would be an hour round trip to go there). But if I quit, I will be stuck again doing minimum wage probably dealing with customers again.


Sure factory work is 'good for introverts', but for introverted intuitors or introverted feelers, factory work is the worst possible thing you could do, next to accounting/banking or some other daily repetition work. If it is making you miserable, do something, a job, that does not make you miserable.

You clearly do not like either of the jobs, so I would try considering other options, maybe even career wise, and education wise (getting qualifications for other better jobs closer to family). Also, you just said 'i will have money but no time to do anything with it' - if you don't have any time or anything to do with the job you are working, especially with your family, there is little point in working that job. I would choose minimum wage, because then I could at least, in my mind, 'live', either and at least, with my family. Especially, if the other option ,is clinical depression and the feeling of 'not living'. 

Take time to weigh the pros and cons, of all* the possible decisions you could make from here. 



> On top of my life sucking because of work, I haven't had a boyfriend in 15 years, and I have a Circadian Rhythm disorder that prevents me from sleeping at night so the only time I can sleep is early morning into early afternoon. So that limits what jobs I can get, too. And I don't see how I am ever going to be able to find a boyfriend now or have any kind of a social life. I'm going to work the rest of my life away and die alone. I know it seems like i'm being overdramatic but I have been dealing with all of these issues most of my life and they clearly aren't going to go away anytime soon. I don't know what kind of advice anyone could even give me, I'm just venting I guess. Can anyone else relate?


A circadian rhythm disorder, like any other disorder, is a problem, not an excuse. we don't encounter problems and stop activities due to them, we figure out a way around them, and try to find solutions. Suffering from some disorders myself, I know this is true. I also know people who can be made accommodations based on mental illness or any illness, do you know any avenues for this? Did you ask anyone about this? Where I'm from, we have these things protected under law. 

Suffering from a disorder, and feeling bad/upset in a job away from people who can support you like your family, of course you would not have a 'social life' or boyfriend, there is a level of emotional stability that is requisite for these things. You need to make sure you are doing well enough in other areas, to have the motivation to go out there, and make more connections, and meet potential love interests. You need to also change your mentality - eventually, these problems will go away. You know that, the problems you have now are completely different from those you had 10 years ago.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

I'm not gonna quote cuz fuck iPads but, I totally agree with the above. Especially when you say that a disorder _is_ a problem but, in my own words, problems are to be solved. It's not easy but we all have to do it.

And, I have to brutally honest but after dismissing my own issues with being jobless for 6 years as " my problem" is not only well, dissmissive, but incredibly judge mental because you, know " walk a mile" combined with the condescending attitude of refusing to " money for free" and then ignoring every suggestion including mine about applying for FAFSA, I have run out of sympathy and patience for this person.

Yes, I may be on disability - after trying my best to work- I _tried_ I keep trying to do what I can. My SO works ten hours a day. I'd much rather be able to help financially rather than contribute nothing because I'm too proud to accept help.
I am proud of the fact I have ways around or to at least cope with all of my road blocks and have not let them make me into a miserable personally.

This attitude reminds of someone I know in real life: he fell on hard times, losing his job and his home within a month. It was shit luck but he could prevented all of it. He didn't. He won't do anything. He is happy in his misery, I think anyone who keeps making up reasons not to fix thier lives is just going to be unhappy....and drag everyone else with them.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

I think you might have undiagnosed Adult ADD. :kitteh: It may help you to talk to someone about your problems with keeping a stable job, and even find treatments that work for you.

Alternatively-- I can recommend the one work that I waited to feel bored/upset about, but didn't. Working at the library. :kitteh:


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## bender477 (Aug 23, 2010)

Earth Goddess said:


> I know it seems like i'm being overdramatic


no way dude it sounds like things are really not going well for you right now. no way that is "being dramatic".

I haven't yet looked at how other people have responded, but my guess is the problem is the kind of jobs you are doing; I think that infjs can get away with this somewhat because we have marginally good people skills, but you have to find something which can satisfy the N eventually.

what I cannot stand about the kind of jobs which you describe is the abominable work environment. people seem to just accept being treated like crap like it's the natural state of things. this got me really into labor rights and political organizing and stuff, which is work I quite like which isn't completley stultifying. and I can put it on my resume too, the nonpolitical stuff anyhow, it makes me look like an asset to my community.

in conclusion, infjs are weird and inquisitive & therefore question things & won't be happy in a normal job.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Fumetsu said:


> Apply for a FAFSA for community college It's pretty easy to qualify if you're low income.


I did that, but it still only covers a small percentage. And even if it was all paid for free, I still can't find a school with all night classes. And even if there was one, I wouldn't be able to just quit my job, I still need money to live. College is fine for young kids out of high school because they still live with their parents, but you can't work full time and go to college full time especially if it all has to be done at night.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

arzazar szubrasznikarazar said:


> of course it doesn't. Everyone who is vulnerable should die on streets or be exploited and abused because no one is owed anything!
> 
> You're no longer needed? Goodbye, go and starve!
> Someone else can work cheaper? Oh well, we don't have to pay you decent money!
> ...


yes yes yes!!!


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Fumetsu said:


> Wow. That was unnessecery.
> 
> When did ai say anyone should die? I believe that a government, or anyone who is capable _should_help those who need it, ideally.
> 
> ...


Thinking that the government should help people out DOES mean that you think the world owes them something. So which is it, lol

I believe everyone is entitled and is owed something. The beautiful thing that is life was not meant to be suffered through. All living things have free air, food, water, and our bodies heal themselves, there is a force keeping us alive and it's on our side, so if we were put on Earth I believe it's to enjoy living here, and everyone has that birthright, and everyone is owed a beautiful happy life just for being born.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

yet another intj said:


> Yes... Mostly paying with their lives.


I meant with money. You don't see them having to sacrifice the majority of their time on Earth to get little pieces of paper so they can eat that night and have a place to sleep. Humans are evolved to the point that we shouldn't have an animal mentality, or at least we should be...if we were all right now thrust into a world where we had to hunt for food, unfortunately it would probably play out horribly with people killing each other to steal their food, but in the world I believe we were meant to live in, we would all grow food and share it and there would be no need to act like animals.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

AriesLilith said:


> I guess that he meant that animals has to work too, as in hunting, gathering food and other chores.


Yeah, and like I said, that is what we should go back to. It's the natural way to live.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

AverOblivious said:


> Why just believe it is causing you depression? Why don't you get a diagnosis, and hence, treatment? It is not a difficult process, in that sense. Hey, I am much younger than you are, and i accepted the diagnosis ages ago, but i got better afterward, but not just by complaining that i may be depressed or getting into depression but by taking steps to improve my situation.


You must have missed a lot of my posts, I have been to doctors and therapists, my depression was only situational (when I was living with my mom). I'm not depressed right now, I am just in a world that doesn't run the way I believe it should be run. I actually think people who can be happy in a world like this are messed up, lol What is that quote, I am paraphrasing but basically it says if going to work all day to pay for a house you dont have time to live in is insanity and only those who understand that are sane...I wish i could find it but I don't know who said it.



> If you find the jobs you are looking at unbearable, maybe it is best to take a break, and reconsider whether your career path is correct in the first place. Maybe it is also good to consider whether some educational opportunities are there, to figure out another career path. I've seen many people around 40 years old, who are trying their hand at degrees or diplomas, it is not uncommon.


I've done all that...you'll have to read all my posts.



> Probably because it's not a job, but THE particular job, that you are working in that is causing the depressed mood. Don't let yourself off easy on that point, presence* is improvement, and if you are at least talking on a phone, it means that you are good at talking on a phone. There is a thing called avoidance, if you were truly bad at taking calls, you would not be taking them at all. Having anxiety while talking on the phone may be part of the depression - you are anxious because you don't think having a low mood will get you through this experience - therapy can help, both of these things. (here are some free worksheets that were given to me during therapy, you can do them now, they may help: Centre for Clinical Interventions (CCI) - Psychotherapy, Research, Training)


Phone phobia is a real thing, it doesn't come from depression, I've had this since I was about 10 years old. It's very common with introverts. I quit those jobs where I had to talk on the phone, now i'm doing a job where I don't have to do that and it's great. But that isn't my point. My entire point of all of this is that humans shouldn't have to work. It is the root issue causing my secondary issues. Sure I can keep this current job forever and it's not stressful which is great but beyond that, it's still no way to go through life.



> Sure factory work is 'good for introverts', but for introverted intuitors or introverted feelers, factory work is the worst possible thing you could do, next to accounting/banking or some other daily repetition work. If it is making you miserable, do something, a job, that does not make you miserable.


Well one thing I really want to do is be a gardener or work in a garden/nursery store but there are no horticulture classes at night and all those jobs are in the daytime anyway, which I can't do due to DSPS.



> Also, you just said 'i will have money but no time to do anything with it' - if you don't have any time or anything to do with the job you are working, especially with your family, there is little point in working that job. I would choose minimum wage, because then I could at least, in my mind, 'live', either and at least, with my family. Especially, if the other option ,is clinical depression and the feeling of 'not living'.


One simple answer; I can't afford to live off minimum wage. Well, and all the minimum wage jobs are customer service, that's why I had to quit those jobs and go back to a factory. 



> A circadian rhythm disorder, like any other disorder, is a problem, not an excuse. we don't encounter problems and stop activities due to them, we figure out a way around them, and try to find solutions. Suffering from some disorders myself, I know this is true. I also know people who can be made accommodations based on mental illness or any illness, do you know any avenues for this? Did you ask anyone about this? Where I'm from, we have these things protected under law.


Yes, I went to the state to see what could be done and they had me fill out a bunch of paperwork and I had 2 appointments with different people working for the state and nothing happened out of all that, I didn't qualify for anything else. They only gave me a website to find work from but I already had been going on that website for years so in the end it was a completely pointless ordeal.



> You need to also change your mentality - eventually, these problems will go away. You know that, the problems you have now are completely different from those you had 10 years ago.


lol No, they're the same problems. I won't be able to retire for another 25 years AT LEAST, so that's when my problems will go away.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Fumetsu said:


> I'm not gonna quote cuz fuck iPads but, I totally agree with the above. Especially when you say that a disorder _is_ a problem but, in my own words, problems are to be solved. It's not easy but we all have to do it.


Some problems are more easily solved than others. Having an incurable disorder that keeps you out of commission for the majority of the productive time of the day for society is something I can't control or change. That is why I am doing what I can and that means working any job at night that I can get. But like I have said more than once, the way the world is ran is the core problem, not me. I am far from the only one who feels this way, but the way the world is ran is part of the problem why it can't be fixed. So it is the problem and it is preventing the problem from being fixed.



> And, I have to brutally honest but after dismissing my own issues with being jobless for 6 years as " my problem" is not only well, dissmissive, but incredibly judge mental because you, know " walk a mile" combined with the condescending attitude of refusing to " money for free" and then ignoring every suggestion including mine about applying for FAFSA, I have run out of sympathy and patience for this person.


I have already explained this, I did fill out the FAFSA. It doesn't cover all your expenses. And that is only a third of the reason why I haven't gone to college. I am not dismissing suggestions, I have already looked into them years ago and obviously if they would have solved my problem, I would have gladly done them.



> I am proud of the fact I have ways around or to at least cope with all of my road blocks and have not let them make me into a miserable personally.


Nobody that knows me would say I'm miserable, I just needed to vent. It's not like i'm moping around everywhere I go whining about being depressed...I am not depressed, I am not whining, I am venting and trying to find others who understand and feel the same. I guess I should stick to forums that focus on my beliefs, this one is too general.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> I think you might have undiagnosed Adult ADD. :kitteh: It may help you to talk to someone about your problems with keeping a stable job, and even find treatments that work for you.


I don't have problems keeping a stable job, I chose to quit those jobs because they were stressful for me. I worked at one job for 18 years, and one of my jobs fired me after 3 years but I would have stayed there forever.


> Alternatively-- I can recommend the one work that I waited to feel bored/upset about, but didn't. Working at the library. :kitteh:


Oh trust me, that would be the perfect job! Well, other than the fact that they close at 8pm. But I have applied at the public library in 3 cities near me, plus every Barnes & Noble within a 60-mile radius. I knew a guy who used to work at one and he said they're really hard to get into. 

The perfect job for me doesn't exist, but it would be a place open all night long that would sell books, art, framed photography (mine, lol), plants, herbs, flowers, anything that would help educate, inspire and help people live a natural life.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

bender477 said:


> no way dude it sounds like things are really not going well for you right now. no way that is "being dramatic".
> 
> I haven't yet looked at how other people have responded, but my guess is the problem is the kind of jobs you are doing; I think that infjs can get away with this somewhat because we have marginally good people skills, but you have to find something which can satisfy the N eventually.
> 
> ...


I can think of a few jobs I would be happy in, for the most part, but with my DSPS and frugal values, I can't get them. People keep saying all I have to do is go to college and I could get a good job I liked, but as much as I hate working, I equally hate being in debt. There really is a lot more to the college thing than I have time to explain, but I think it's a joke anyway, just like politics, just like religion, just like mainstream society. It's too deep of a subject to go into here.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Earth Goddess said:


> The perfect job for me doesn't exist, but it would be a place open all night long that would sell books, art, framed photography (mine, lol), plants, herbs, flowers, anything that would help educate, inspire and help people live a natural life.


Sounds like you should start your own business! Make sure to put your shop next to a place that _is _open all night, like a Gas station. And bright pretty neon colours and other creative things to ensure people know that it's open!


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

I finally found a few quotes/articles, I see this kind of stuff all the time on Facebook but wouldn't you know when i'm trying to find it to show someone, it seems elusive, lol;

Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for – in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.
Ellen Goodman




> Someone on quora asked me: why do people hate their jobs? I answered:





> Note, not everyone hates their jobs. There are some “entre-ployees” out there that love their jobs. But for the other 98% of the population:
> – Jobs are modern-day slavery. We are paid just enough to live and not more. You are punished if you ask for more.
> – We are often verbally abused on the job and we take it because we think it’s normal that people would yell at us.
> – The government gets up to 50% of your paycheck and then 10-20% of that goes to kill people on other parts of the planet, including our own children.
> ...


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

AverOblivious said:


> But what you are asking is that human civilization goes 'backward in progress', because you subjectively are having trouble in the system we are all living in.


lol I would never even try to change the entire world to go backwards just for me (and the minority who think like me). I am not expecting it to change for me. I am just stating my opinion about why I can't be 100% happy in a world like this.



> I would disagree in many ways, whether hunter-gatherers had peaceful practices, does not mean they are 'peaceful as a whole' - they were violent against anything outside their own groups, and even took 'trophies' of their slaughtered victims. There was also no legal system, so it's almost incomparable to how we approach life now.


I'm not saying everything about it was perfect, and obviously I would want to keep the legal system (although for the most part that is a joke too) but we still need something along those lines. I am not saying we need to get rid of EVERYTHING we have now, just certain parts.



> Well, then I guess there is no problem here. Just find another way of living, which is not the same way other people live.


I'm trying, lol Every time I find another way of living, like I said, doing it would cause a problem equal to the problem of not living that life. You know how they say people only change to a new situation if it is better than the current situation. Why change when I am still going to have a problem with the new thing. What I need is a solution that solves my problems, not creates more.



> I think the bolded 'if i knew' stuff, is some form of affective forecasting error, 'if i knew' or your knowledge now, isn't enough to determine whether or not a future experience will be negative or positive, you need to do those things and find out for yourself.


I disagree, I think you can research something enough to know what is required for it. There are facts that can't be changed, and it's possible to know the facts before actually experiencing it firsthand. I also talk to a lot of people that do the things I want to do and they tell me there's no way I can do them, either because of one thing or another.



> Anyway, basically what I am saying here, is that cognitive biases come from anxiety. So, maybe, if you can reduce the anxiety, you can make a better outlook for your life and not feel like 'humans should not have to work' or have this negative view of 'human work' or whatever. Also, someone saying 'humans should not have to work' also kinda means, 'I shouldn't have to work' - because you're also human heh. So, that is also a negative outlook that may come from similar issues. You just don't seem to be fully aware of that.


Of course I'm aware that I shouldn't have to work, lol But I'm not just saying ME, I'm saying nobody should have to. And you see it as a negative thing but I don't. I don't feel anxiety over this, anxiety is what I feel when I'm dealing with customers or the phone, not when I think about my views of how I think the world should be. I haven't felt any anxiety since I got this new job 2 weeks ago. 



> other than that, all those options you listed are somewhat 'magical', there is a 'wanting' component to all of them. when i stated list out options, it doesn't necessarily mean, you should list out all the options that you want to do, but are more realistic options which you could take to feel better about your situation (because that is paramount). For example, farming, buying an RV or whatever 'travelling the country' initiative is so not the 'realistic options' that you need to be thinking about right now. Of course you would be unsatisfied if all your alternative options, are really 'missed opportunities'.


They seem magical to most people, I'm sure, but there are people that do them. So they are realistic. I hate when people say things like "be realistic!" that's pretty much like saying "Stop dreaming and suffer with the rest of us".



> You will always make excuses for why you can't do something. But it is relatively better than working at a factory, especially, for someone not only of your personality type, but of your outlook on that type of work.


I am ok with working in a factory though. It fits me. My hours are at night, my pay is amazing, there is no stress, that's all I need in a job. I know it sounds contradictory that I say this after also saying I don't want to work, but factory work is the only kind of job that I can get that fits the bill for me. In other words, if I HAVE to work, I'm fine with it being in a factory. I would prefer not to, but it's still the lesser of the other evils out there.



> The question is, if you haven't done these things or jobs, how would you know that they are so bad? Maybe even forestry or agriculture, is good, if you could be the person who minimizes damage to the environment, rather than the person who is doing the cutting. At least you could be around things you are interested in, if you were doing forestry, and not feel so ‘gloom and doom’ about it.


Most jobs like that require schooling of some kind. But even so, those types of jobs are beyond what I want to do. I mean they are too...I can't think of the word, important? Professional? Involving? I like jobs where I can just be by myself and do my own thing and put in mimimal effort and then leave. I don't want a career, I don't want my life to revolve around work any more than it has to.



> Then don’t do customer service.


lol I'm not, that's why I'm at a factory.



> like the other person said, those things don’t help. Draw up more options, which are realistic and helpful for you. If these people aren’t helping you, keep trying with others who will. If this job is making you feel ‘dread’, keep trying for a job that doesn’t.


I don't dread going into work NOW, so I will keep this one. I only dread customer service jobs. That is why I said factory jobs are good for me, they fit my criteria for a job, if I must have one.



> I’m going to be honest here, you sound very depressed. A lot of people come on here complaining about low mood, going ‘I think I am getting into depression or something’, but from what you are saying you sound like you are actually depressed. Like you don’t know what is happening with your life, and you are also not content with your life, and see no positives in your life. Depression is when we see few avenues for support, and there is also a component, that people who are actually depressed ‘don’t know they are’ or can’t accept it. I remember when I had my first major depressive episode, I was talking in this exact same manner.
> I think you should get help.


I know i'm not depressed because I have been depressed before and I don't feel that way now. I don't think about suicide anymore, I don't cry anymore, I have my motivation back, I care again about what kind of foods I eat, I can handle being around people again, I can exercise again,etc.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Watchtower said:


> So, out of all the 20 possible degrees you'd like to get, horticulture is the one you'd actually want to get? That's great.


Well I mentioned that one only because the other things I want to do aren't jobs that have college classes or degrees. Like photography, I have already taken online classes for that so the rest is just practicing, I just don't have much time for it anymore since I work so much. I am also interested in weather and stormchasing but I have issues with that too, mainly I suck at math which you need to be really good at to study weather (I knew someone who went to school for it and he said the same thing), and I don't want to be a weather person on tv, I really just want to chase storms, lol That isn't even a job, it's a hobby. I'm also interested in books but like I said in another post, bookstores and libraries only hire people with the right resume, like you need a degree and/or you used to be a teacher or something like that. I still try though but have never once even gotten a call from any of the libraries or bookstores I've applied at. I'm also interested in spirituality but of course that isn't a career, the people that work in that field have special gifts that they can get paid for. I don't have any gifts or talents in that area, I just like to read about it and watch videos about it. But I have never seen actual jobs in that field. I'm also interested in cooking, but I tried that and realized I just like to cook for myself, I don't like serving customers, cooking in a restaurant, dealing with rushes, making things how they tell me to, it takes all the fun out of it. I just like to cook in my kitchen, experiment with new recipes, etc. I have a lot of interests that I like to read about and learn about but for one reason or another I'm just not interested in doing a job in those fields. Like I am interested in self sustainability, but there aren't that many jobs in that field. There was a college a few hours from me that has a class in it and I seriously considered going for that, but it's a really expensive school, more so than most. And the classes were during the daytime, of course, lol You can't build and test solar panels at night!



> Horticulture -- Undergraduate Degrees Online -- Online & Distance Degrees | Oregon State Ecampus | OSU Degrees Online - here, the problem for you is most probably the cost. That's 50K+ for the whole degree.


Wow, I have never seen an online class for that before!! That is spendy though.



> Here's a certificate - https://distance.ncsu.edu/programs/university-undergraduate-certificate-in-general-horticulture - it's like 8K, but can be done in 4 years.


Wow that one I would actually consider, since it's cheaper...but it is just a certificate, those are pretty worthless. I have a certificate in natural health & healing, it doesn't mean crap. You can't get a job based on that. I also noticed that class requires that you have a 3.0 grade point average in high school, mine was a lot lower than that, lol I got C's and D's in high school because I was too tired from having to get up early that I couldn't learn correctly. 



> These courses are free - List of Free Online Horticulture Courses and Training Programs


I have never seen that one before...I have 2 other free classes that I've been in the process of taking but of course with moving and bouncing around to different jobs I haven't been able to get back to them. I'll probably do that vegetable and herb one! Thanks for those links!




> Do you actually know that you can't get a job in that field, or is it just a guess? You said that you'd like to grow herbs and plants and take care of them in a place that sells them. Are you 100% sure that none of that can be done late afternoon or at night at least to some degree?


Late afternoon yeah but that isn't enough time to earn enough money. I have never seen a place like that stay open past 8pm, 9 at the very latest, which means I would have to start at noon which means i would have to get up at 10. That's just too early for me, I usually do ok if I have to get up around 1, maybe noon, but 10 is just too early. I did apply at both of the ones near me though, but haven't heard back from them. I think because on my applications I said I can't work mornings and I'm sure that is why they haven't called me. I know they don't pay that well either, so I guess it's a good thing. I can't survive off less than $10 an hour even full time.



> Is it an actual diagnosed phobia, or is it self-diagnosed? How bad do the symptoms get?


I don't even know who would diagnose that...I've been to a therapist and the vocational rehabilitation specialist/counselor whatever she was, I mean I don't know why someone would need to get told they have something when it's been an issue their whole life, it's pretty obvious. It isn't like a physical ailment that I am confused about so I have to go to the doctor to find out what it is...I KNOW what this is, lol The earliest memory I have of this was when I was about 10, and something just happened while I was talking to my friend on the phone where I suddenly couldn't bring myself to talk. This was my best friend, yet I was just frozen. I just held the phone listening to her wondering out loud where I was but I just couldn't talk. As I grew older, I just hated talking on the phone, when I was supposed to call places to make appointments or whatever, I would just go there and do it in person instead. When people would call me, the sound of the phone ringing would just set my nerves off. I just got really uncomfortable and didn't answer the phone. To this day, I tell people just to text me instead. Anyway when I got a job having to deal with the phone is when I realized how bad it was. I froze and couldn't answer it, then I got in trouble. I answered it the next time but my heart was racing and I was sweaty and my throat got all dry. Having to make phone calls is equally as bad. One night I sat there trying to make myself do it for an hour and I finally was able to do it but thank God they didn't answer so it was ok. At the hotel job I had recently, oh my God, it was the worst...I would get stomach aches before even going into work, then i'd have a headache when I was done. I would have dry mouth the entire time, no appetite, sweaty palms, racing heart, etc. That was the only job I had where I almost walked out every day, but I was the only one running the place so I had to stay. I only lasted a month and a half there. That's when I got the job at Target because I was ready to take anything I could get to get out of the hotel, but then I had to talk on the phone at Target too, lol So I quit there as soon as I got this factory job. Now finally I can relax!


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> I disagree, I think you can research something enough to know what is required for it. There are facts that can't be changed, and it's possible to know the facts before actually experiencing it firsthand. I also talk to a lot of people that do the things I want to do and they tell me there's no way I can do them, either because of one thing or another.


That's not what I was saying. Affective forecasting is a cognitive bias, and cognitive biases are indicators of mental health problems especially anxiety. You were committing some of those, and therefore, I was suggesting you have some level of anxiety, even if you deny it on the surface because you've 'had it before'. Also that whole argument is unreasonable, having anxiety or depression at one point in your life, doesn't mean you won't have problems with it again. People come in and out of these things all the time - even some psych professionals i've talked to about the issue of OCD, they themselves fell into this thing called a 'relapse' where all the OCD symptoms kick in again and they have the same old problems to deal with again. 



> Of course I'm aware that I shouldn't have to work, lol But I'm not just saying ME, I'm saying nobody should have to. And you see it as a negative thing but I don't. I don't feel anxiety over this, anxiety is what I feel when I'm dealing with customers or the phone, not when I think about my views of how I think the world should be. I haven't felt any anxiety since I got this new job 2 weeks ago.


Well, okay. Then what really is the problem? if you don't see it as a negative thing, you should just keep living life the way you always have. It doesn't make sense from your first post, where you talked about issues regarding anxiety, and also, not being satisfied with working (and 'hating' working), and now stating, that you do not see it as a negative thing. 



> They seem magical to most people, I'm sure, but there are people that do them. So they are realistic. I hate when people say things like "be realistic!" that's pretty much like saying "Stop dreaming and suffer with the rest of us".


Don't add evidence that was not there. I don't think I ever said 'be realistic!'. 




> I am ok with working in a factory though. It fits me. My hours are at night, my pay is amazing, there is no stress, that's all I need in a job. I know it sounds contradictory that I say this after also saying I don't want to work, but factory work is the only kind of job that I can get that fits the bill for me. In other words, if I HAVE to work, I'm fine with it being in a factory. I would prefer not to, but it's still the lesser of the other evils out there.


Again, I don't see how this matches up with the first post, when you stated you hated working, and now you are stating that there is no stress in your job. 



> Most jobs like that require schooling of some kind. But even so, those types of jobs are beyond what I want to do. I mean they are too...I can't think of the word, important? Professional? Involving? I like jobs where I can just be by myself and do my own thing and put in mimimal effort and then leave. I don't want a career, I don't want my life to revolve around work any more than it has to.


You want a job that can satisfy your reclusive nature, rather than your skills or talents. I think they have a word for this, it's called learned helplessness. You've conditioned yourself or been conditioned by experiences, to phobic reactions around the world you live in, and now, that you settle for less, it feels safer. That is not a helpful thing, it is a comfortable thing. Not all comforts are helpful for a person. 



> I don't dread going into work NOW, so I will keep this one. I only dread customer service jobs. That is why I said factory jobs are good for me, they fit my criteria for a job, if I must have one.


Well, again, that's okay. It's your choice to do it, but you associated some pretty depressive symptoms with your current job and life situation surrounding your job, in the first post, and that has to mean something for you. You did in fact, write the first post, after all. 




> I know i'm not depressed because I have been depressed before and I don't feel that way now. I don't think about suicide anymore, I don't cry anymore, I have my motivation back, I care again about what kind of foods I eat, I can handle being around people again, I can exercise again,etc.


Depression is not something that you can emotionally 'get over', just like much other physical illnesses, you need to have mechanisms to fight it when it does come up. Also, there are levels of depression - there is a more severe one you described - suicidal ideation, etc while there is a more anxiety/depression which can still affect the way you govern your life - something which comes up like a cognitive processing problem and affects how you think about life and your present circumstances.


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

Earth Goddess said:


> I have that book, lol My gym trainer actually recommended it to me a year ago. It isn't that I can't find anything I want to do, it's mostly that what I want to do involves having to be up in the mornings, either for college or a job in that field.
> 
> I have tried EFT but never noticed a difference from it. I think I have a permanent nocebo effect problem, things that should work for me never do. I can't count how many things I have tried, how many self help books, how many meditations, affirmations, law of attraction tips, reiki, energy healings, psychic readings, you name it, I've tried it. That leads me to believe even more that I really don't have any problems other than my sleep disorder and my hatred for the post-Industrial Revolution world we live in.


If you haven't done the book, why not do it? You won't be worse off and you may find it useful. 
The link below is a series about jobs for people who don't sleep at night. Maybe something there will be helpful. Also, you mentioned a lot self-help, but what about God help? I didn't see prayer on your list. Putting your faith in Jesus Christ could change everything. Plus, reading the bible is soothing and helps give another perspective. 

Change Your Career, Not Your Sleep Habits - Salary.com


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

AverOblivious said:


> That's not what I was saying. Affective forecasting is a cognitive bias, and cognitive biases are indicators of mental health problems especially anxiety. You were committing some of those, and therefore, I was suggesting you have some level of anxiety, even if you deny it on the surface because you've 'had it before'. Also that whole argument is unreasonable, having anxiety or depression at one point in your life, doesn't mean you won't have problems with it again. People come in and out of these things all the time - even some psych professionals i've talked to about the issue of OCD, they themselves fell into this thing called a 'relapse' where all the OCD symptoms kick in again and they have the same old problems to deal with again.


My depression was situational, not chemical. I don't needs meds to make mine go away, I need my situation to changed. NeedED I should say, since that is in the past now. The only thing I was depressed about was the fact that I was living with my mom. You take away the cause, and there is no longer an effect.



> Well, okay. Then what really is the problem? if you don't see it as a negative thing, you should just keep living life the way you always have. It doesn't make sense from your first post, where you talked about issues regarding anxiety, and also, not being satisfied with working (and 'hating' working), and now stating, that you do not see it as a negative thing.


I thought you were saying my thoughts/beliefs about working was a negative thing, and I was saying I don't believe it is. Anxiety isn't a word to describe how I feel about working, I just have a philosophy that I am against working.



> Don't add evidence that was not there. I don't think I ever said 'be realistic!'.


Well what else does "realistic options" mean then? lol Those are the words you used.



> Again, I don't see how this matches up with the first post, when you stated you hated working, and now you are stating that there is no stress in your job.


I don't have stress in my job but I still hate working. Like I've said, this job is the lesser of all the evils (other jobs) out there. If I must do it, I will, but I still hate working. I can tolerate my job now that it doesn't involve stress. But I am also saying that it's still no way to live. Sure if I stay there I will be stress free until the day I die, but I'm not going to have a life working all the time, I'm not going to be able to do all the things I wanna do, the way social security is going, people my age won't be able to retire until we're in our 80's! 



> You want a job that can satisfy your reclusive nature, rather than your skills or talents. I think they have a word for this, it's called learned helplessness. You've conditioned yourself or been conditioned by experiences, to phobic reactions around the world you live in, and now, that you settle for less, it feels safer. That is not a helpful thing, it is a comfortable thing. Not all comforts are helpful for a person.


There are millions of introverts who have reclusive jobs, why is that a bad thing? My skills and talents ARE in factory work, I'm very good at it. I have failed in all the other lines of work I did, factory work is the only thing I can do well. The things I am good at other than factory work are non-job things, like I am good at finding scenes in nature to take pictures of (i'm working on getting paid to be a photographer but 99% of the photographers out there tell you that you still need a full time job because photography doesn't pay enough).



> Well, again, that's okay. It's your choice to do it, but you associated some pretty depressive symptoms with your current job and life situation surrounding your job, in the first post, and that has to mean something for you. You did in fact, write the first post, after all.


When I wrote that original post, I had only been at my job for a few days and reality set in and I was feeling extra trapped that night, and also the position I was doing the first week I didn't like at all, last week and this week I am on a different position that I like a lot better. So I don't feel quite as bad about my job as I did the first week. So I guess you could say the job is more tolerable for me now and that might be reflecting in my recent posts. I still don't want to work though, and of course given a choice I would rather not have to do it, lol I was thinking while I was at work tonight how I'm sure even if I had a job in gardening or working in a plant nursery, I still wouldn't want to work. It would be better than factory work, but I still no matter what would prefer not to work, period. It's the concept behind it, for the most part. We are wage slaves, and I would still feel trapped even doing work I love, because if I wasn't there I could be out taking pictures or going on a road trip or curling up with a book or enjoying a new restaurant with some friends. Jobs take away our freedom. Sure they give you money but you have no time. Everyone on their deathbeds say they wish they would have worked less, that they wished they would have had more time to do the things they loved. Well, folks, this isn't going to change as long as we are all slaves to the dollar.



> Depression is not something that you can emotionally 'get over', just like much other physical illnesses, you need to have mechanisms to fight it when it does come up. Also, there are levels of depression - there is a more severe one you described - suicidal ideation, etc while there is a more anxiety/depression which can still affect the way you govern your life - something which comes up like a cognitive processing problem and affects how you think about life and your present circumstances.


There are 2 kinds of depression, situational and chemical imbalance. Situational is where the situation you are in is making you depressed, your environment is bad for you, etc. The other is where something in your brain is off and no matter what you do, you will be depressed, even if you have a perfect life. I had situational depression because when living with my mom for those 5 years that was the only time I ever got depressed. I may hate working but at least I don't feel like killing myself is the only way to make that feeling go away. When I was living with my mom I truly felt like I was never going to get out of there again, and every day I was so irritated and stressed out and tired (I can't sleep in a house where people are up during the day when i'm sleeping) that I truly thought I'm either going to have to run away and just be homeless or end it. I would never do that, so instead I just hopped in my car and drove around all the time, I'd go to bookstores and read until they closed then I'd drive around for hours afterwards until I knew my mom was in bed then I would go home so I could at least have peace and quiet and feel like I was living on my own again.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Lilsnowy said:


> If you haven't done the book, why not do it? You won't be worse off and you may find it useful.
> The link below is a series about jobs for people who don't sleep at night. Maybe something there will be helpful.


Oh i'm sorry I didn't clarify that enough, I DID read the book, I did do the exercises. I just meant that even after that, I didn't learn anything I didn't already know. I know what I would like to do, but can't due to my disorder. But like I said in other posts, even if I was doing a job like that, based on my interests, it would still be a JOB, and nothing changes that. I'd still be away from home for most of the day, most days of the week most years of my life. 



> Also, you mentioned a lot self-help, but what about God help? I didn't see prayer on your list. Putting your faith in Jesus Christ could change everything. Plus, reading the bible is soothing and helps give another perspective.


I'm not religious at all. Without going too deep into that subject, I'll just say one's religious beliefs have nothing to do with their happiness. If it did, there would be no successful happy atheists, lol



> Change Your Career, Not Your Sleep Habits - Salary.com


Wow that was a really good article about this disorder! I always like reading about others so I don't feel so alone and different. In a perfect world I could freelance like her, but you can't do factory work from home, lol I have actually tried to get multiple streams of income going using the internet (websites, blogs, selling my photography, affiliate marketing, etc.) but that stuff is hard even for the people who are good at it, which I am not. It all still feels like work to me when i am forced to do it. And I am not smart when it comes to business type things like that, that's why when someone mentioned I start my own business, I said I would need someone to do it for me and I would just work for them, lol Or be the partner without actually doing any of that business type stuff.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> My depression was situational, not chemical.


Exactly. SO, what do you think you need to do, if this situation is causing you depression? You need to change your situation again. 



> I don't needs meds to make mine go away, I need my situation to changed. NeedED I should say, since that is in the past now. The only thing I was depressed about was the fact that I was living with my mom. You take away the cause, and there is no longer an effect.


When you were in that situation, did you know you were depressed? Or was it only afterward you realized you were depressed? 



> _*I thought you were saying my thoughts/beliefs about working was a negative thing*_, and I was saying I don't believe it is. Anxiety isn't a word to describe how I feel about working, I just have a philosophy that I am against working.


No, that is what you are hearing, in your depressed mind. The thing with depression, is that so far, as you hear what you hear to support your own preconceived notions of the world, you will continue to adopt other people's perspectives toward those perceptions. The fault is not with you, but with 'the stars' and in this case, it's this peculiar thing called clinical depression. I know this, because I have gone through clinical depression myself, and this is how it manifests in my head. 



> Well what else does "realistic options" mean then? lol Those are the words you used.


First write out what your problem is (i.e. work is unsatisfactory, etc) --> write out what all the possible options you have to solve this problem ---> list out the pros and cons of each of these 'possible options'. By writing out the pros and cons of each of the options, it will be clearer which ones are more 'realistic' than the others. 



> I don't have stress in my job but I still hate working. Like I've said, this job is the lesser of all the evils (other jobs) out there. If I must do it, I will, but I still hate working. I can tolerate my job now that it doesn't involve stress. But I am also saying that it's still no way to live. Sure if I stay there I will be stress free until the day I die, but I'm not going to have a life working all the time, I'm not going to be able to do all the things I wanna do, the way social security is going, people my age won't be able to retire until we're in our 80's!


 I don't know anyone who 'hates working' but has 'no stress' over their job. That is highly unlikely. What is more likely is, you are just not acknowledging the stress that you are facing, and that is probably making things even more problematic for yourself. 



> There are millions of introverts who have reclusive jobs, why is that a bad thing? My skills and talents ARE in factory work, I'm very good at it. I have failed in all the other lines of work I did, factory work is the only thing I can do well. The things I am good at other than factory work are non-job things, like I am good at finding scenes in nature to take pictures of (i'm working on getting paid to be a photographer but 99% of the photographers out there tell you that you still need a full time job because photography doesn't pay enough).


Being reclusive is not a "bad" thing. Again, this is your preconceived mental schema, filtering out what it wants to hear from what I am saying. This again, is common in depressive thinking. It's called black/white thinking - not everything is divided into terms of 'good' or 'bad', there are grey areas. There are grey areas, in your job, there are grey areas in, your approach to working and there are grey areas, in how you think about what I am saying. 



> When I wrote that original post, I had only been at my job for a few days and reality set in and I was feeling extra trapped that night, and also the position I was doing the first week I didn't like at all, last week and this week I am on a different position that I like a lot better. *So I don't feel quite as bad about my job as I did the first week*. So I guess you could say the job is more tolerable for me now and that might be reflecting in my recent posts. I still don't want to work though, and of course given a choice I would rather not have to do it, lol 2) _*I was thinking *_while I was at work tonight how I'm sure even if I had a job in gardening or working in a plant nursery,_* I still wouldn't want to work*_. It would be better than factory work, but I still no matter what would prefer not to work, period. It's the concept behind it, for the most part. We are wage slaves, *and I would still feel trapped even doing work I love, because if I wasn't there I could be out taking pictures* or going on a road trip or curling up with a book or enjoying a new restaurant with some friends. Jobs take away our freedom. Sure they give you money but you have no time. Everyone on their deathbeds say they wish they would have worked less, that they wished they would have had more time to do the things they loved. Well, folks, this isn't going to change as long as we are all slaves to the dollar.


You said, that depression is 'situational' before, and now you are accepting that merely because your position changed now, that your job is 'better' for you. What if you fall into a 'bad position' again? What are you going to do then?

The part where you state you were "thinking" is again, affective forecasting. You can't merely just 'mentally prepare' for events, you need to experience them for yourself to judge their inherent worth. For example, 'feeling trapped' is just a preconceived notion regarding what you think your possibilities for a job are, in the future. _What you do know_ is that you are associating working or work, with 'feeling trapped' at this very moment, so the certainty you have now is that you will continually associate work with negative beliefs, but if you changed your job, your situation may change (but your negative beliefs will keep you away from trying anything new). 



> There are 2 kinds of depression, situational and chemical imbalance. Situational is where the situation you are in is making you depressed, your environment is bad for you, etc. The other is where something in your brain is off and no matter what you do, you will be depressed, even if you have a perfect life. I had situational depression because when living with my mom for those 5 years that was the only time I ever got depressed. I may hate working but at least I don't feel like killing myself is the only way to make that feeling go away. When I was living with my mom I truly felt like I was never going to get out of there again, and every day I was so irritated and stressed out and tired (I can't sleep in a house where people are up during the day when i'm sleeping) that I truly thought I'm either going to have to run away and just be homeless or end it. I would never do that, so instead I just hopped in my car and drove around all the time, I'd go to bookstores and read until they closed then I'd drive around for hours afterwards until I knew my mom was in bed then I would go home so I could at least have peace and quiet and feel like I was living on my own again.


Those aren't ' 2 kinds of depression'. There are different levels for the types or aggregates of symptoms one person can have.
The chemical imbalance thing is a stereotype, and based on the dopamine hypothesis which posits that there is a link between depression and 'dopamine' levels in the brain. While, this same hypothesis applies to almost every other mental illness, including schizophrenia. There are changes in structural brain, and depression is biological, but relying on this information, indicates to me that you are using any excuse, to justify your current position of not wanting to go see a therapist or psychologist or social worker of sorts. Or take any measures to overcome these interpersonal difficulties. 

In this case, I would just have to say 'acceptance is everything'. Whether you accept that a problem occurs (depression), is when you are able to take steps to take care of yourself and hence, minimize or eradicate the problem.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

AverOblivious said:


> Exactly. SO, what do you think you need to do, if this situation is causing you depression? You need to change your situation again.


But i'm not depressed right now, lol My feelings are just part of my philosophy. You wouldn't tell someone who believes in a Buddhist lifestyle that they are depressed if they want to go live in a Buddhist temple but they can't, lol



> When you were in that situation, did you know you were depressed? Or was it only afterward you realized you were depressed?


I knew it because it was all I thought about, how unhappy I was. I was constantly trying to escape my reality, constantly irritated, crying myself to sleep, thinking the only way out is to run away or kill myself, I was constantly avoiding people, even my nephews who would come over all the time. I would hear them in the livingroom with my mom and I would just stay in bed all day until they left, sometimes until 6 or 7pm. I just had no mental or physical energy to deal with people.



> The fault is not with you, but with 'the stars' and in this case, it's this peculiar thing called clinical depression. I know this, because I have gone through clinical depression myself, and this is how it manifests in my head.


It makes no sense to think I have clinical (chemical) depression though. I was only depressed when I had to live with my mom. If I had clinical depression, why wasn't I depressed before I lost my apartment only a few weeks before that? Why wasn't I depressed after I bought my own place? Why don't I think about suicide anymore? How am I able to enjoy being alive at all? Don't go by the title of this thread or the negativity of my first post, I admit it was a little extreme. I shouldn't have said I'm going to hate life until I retire. I was having a bad week my first week on my new job but I actually don't have a problem with it now, I'm doing something different. I still wish I didn't have to work, but I am not hating life like my post made it seem. Shit just a week ago I spent an entire evening climbing a small mountain and took 200 pictures and it was one of the best days of my life, lol



> First write out what your problem is (i.e. work is unsatisfactory, etc) --> write out what all the possible options you have to solve this problem ---> list out the pros and cons of each of these 'possible options'. By writing out the pros and cons of each of the options, it will be clearer which ones are more 'realistic' than the others.


That's pretty much what this thread has become, lol I have also done this in the past many times. I keep coming back to the same core problems, my sleep disorder and the way the world works. I can't change either. I am not going to choose an option that is going to cause more problems. And I don't like the word 'realistic' so I'm not going to make decisions based on what is realistic or not, only by what fits in with my criteria for what I want. But so far nothing does.



> I don't know anyone who 'hates working' but has 'no stress' over their job. That is highly unlikely. What is more likely is, you are just not acknowledging the stress that you are facing, and that is probably making things even more problematic for yourself.


Maybe we have different ideas of what stress is. To me, stress is an uncomfortable fear that causes bodily symptoms. My job is not uncomfortable at all, in fact I feel very comfortable there because it's pretty much the same kind of job I had for 18 years. I feel no fear there, I know I don't have to answer phones or deal with the public, although I'm not sure if that is even fear, I know it's a social anxiety issue but instead of fear I would say it's more uncomfortableness. But either way, I don't feel either of those negative feelings at my job. I hate the act of working in that I am kept away from home all day every day, but what I'm doing isn't stressful. Like I said, I could be working in a library or a garden store and still hate the fact that I have no freedom while I'm there. I have no freedom even when I'm home after work, because I still have to go back the next day! I can't even go on a road trip and drive across the country if I wanted to. I am trapped all because of work, regardless of how much I may love or hate it.



> You said, that depression is 'situational' before, and now you are accepting that merely because your position changed now, that your job is 'better' for you. What if you fall into a 'bad position' again? What are you going to do then?


But I wasn't depressed that week either, I am still living in my own place. That is the only thing that has ever caused me depression. I wasn't even depressed when I had those 2 stressful customer service jobs. I got depressed living at my moms house because I thought I was never going to get out of there. I was nearing my 40's, craving independence and my own space, and I couldn't have it. I was depressed because I saw my future as me growing old, living with my mom, having her (and my dad who lives down the street) breathing down my neck, not giving me an inch of space. It's my biggest nightmare and it came true for a few years. Any job I have to do pales in comparison to living with my mother.



> The part where you state you were "thinking" is again, affective forecasting. You can't merely just 'mentally prepare' for events, you need to experience them for yourself to judge their inherent worth. For example, 'feeling trapped' is just a preconceived notion regarding what you think your possibilities for a job are, in the future. _What you do know_ is that you are associating working or work, with 'feeling trapped' at this very moment, so the certainty you have now is that you will continually associate work with negative beliefs, but if you changed your job, your situation may change (but your negative beliefs will keep you away from trying anything new).


I might be missing your point here, but are you basically saying I only feel negatively about work because of my job? It's not that, because I have had this belief/philosophy for years, ever since I started my spiritual awakening, since I started waking up to hidden knowledge about life, the truth about the world, etc. Each job I have gives me varying levels of dissatisfaction, but it's always still there simmering in the background no matter what. I've had 9 jobs in the last decade and it doesn't matter how much I can tolerate them. A few I would have stayed at for the rest of my life, but it didn't change the fact that I would still not do it if I didn't have to.



> Those aren't ' 2 kinds of depression'. There are different levels for the types or aggregates of symptoms one person can have.


I have to get to bed soon so I don't have time to show you the research but google '2 kinds of depression', the first 2 results that show up both say there is situational and chemical. I thought this was common knowledge since I even knew this most of my life already.



> The chemical imbalance thing is a stereotype, and based on the dopamine hypothesis which posits that there is a link between depression and 'dopamine' levels in the brain. While, this same hypothesis applies to almost every other mental illness, including schizophrenia. There are changes in structural brain, and depression is biological, but relying on this information, indicates to me that you are using any excuse, to justify your current position of not wanting to go see a therapist or psychologist or social worker of sorts. Or take any measures to overcome these interpersonal difficulties.


I did go see a therapist, maybe you missed that part. But she knew it was only situational so her advice was to do whatever I could to get out of my mom's house.



> In this case, I would just have to say 'acceptance is everything'. Whether you accept that a problem occurs (depression), is when you are able to take steps to take care of yourself and hence, minimize or eradicate the problem.


This entire post was all about depression which isn't even my problem! I am done defending myself regarding this subject, I know I'm not depressed, and I'm going to continue this discussion with people in the spiritual forums where they all agreed with my post because they have the same philosophy that I do.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Earth Goddess said:


> But i'm not depressed right now, lol My feelings are just part of my philosophy. You wouldn't tell someone who believes in a Buddhist lifestyle that they are depressed if they want to go live in a Buddhist temple but they can't, lol
> 
> I knew it because it was all I thought about, how unhappy I was. I was constantly trying to escape my reality, constantly irritated, crying myself to sleep, thinking the only way out is to run away or kill myself, I was constantly avoiding people, even my nephews who would come over all the time. I would hear them in the livingroom with my mom and I would just stay in bed all day until they left, sometimes until 6 or 7pm. I just had no mental or physical energy to deal with people.
> 
> ...


I'm not even sure if any of this stuff is relevant anymore. From what I am reading, you are continually only 'filtering what you want to hear'. And you did it multiple times in this post and the last. I'm not 100% certain why you did this, but I think it relates back to the problems I stated before, which are indicators of depression. (even if you do not have or think you have clinical depression) 

If anything, there are more than '2 kinds of depression' (trust me I googled it, you are again using it as an excuse - i.e. there is psychotic depression or manic depression, these all come under the same category). 
Depression varies by symptoms, and can be more persistent/daily or severe, (which was what I was referring to before). https://www.beyondblue.org.au/the-facts/depression/types-of-depression


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Earth Goddess said:


> Exactly. Not only was it not worth my time, I didn't sleep much because there were 2 separate appointments and of course they schedule things for the daytime so both of those days I only got a few hours of sleep. It sucks I suffered for 2 days for nothing. lol That's almost worse to me than them not helping me, lol


You've really got to deal with this sleeping thing, As was already stated, it _is_ a problem but you're treating it like a much bigger issue than it is.
All of the men in my family have worked nights; mostly for red-eye flights at the airport. My uncle is a dock worker. He has to drive over an hour to be at before six am. 
My Dad worked graveyard shift at a grocery store and slept during the day. He does not have the same disorder you do, so this was completely out of normal for him. He made it work. You have to make it work. 
I absolutley cannot fall asleep before at least one am and I have to get up at three am to take medication that makes me sick,so I usually can't go back to sleep until around six am but I need to be up by nine. And yes, I too had to get up at seven or so to meet my job counselor at stupid hours of the morning. She knew about my odd sleep cycle she didn't care. No one does. 
You keep saying " I can't." But you can a lot of people of have to fuck up thier entire schedule to keep pace with everyone else for whom this schedule doesn't work.

It's really hard and it sucks even harder but it is not impossible.


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## Earth Goddess (Aug 7, 2013)

Fumetsu said:


> You've really got to deal with this sleeping thing, As was already stated, it _is_ a problem but you're treating it like a much bigger issue than it is.
> All of the men in my family have worked nights; mostly for red-eye flights at the airport. My uncle is a dock worker. He has to drive over an hour to be at before six am.
> My Dad worked graveyard shift at a grocery store and slept during the day. He does not have the same disorder you do, so this was completely out of normal for him. He made it work. You have to make it work.
> I absolutley cannot fall asleep before at least one am and I have to get up at three am to take medication that makes me sick,so I usually can't go back to sleep until around six am but I need to be up by nine. And yes, I too had to get up at seven or so to meet my job counselor at stupid hours of the morning. She knew about my odd sleep cycle she didn't care. No one does.
> ...


I say "I can't" because I really can't. This disorder is incurable and gets worse as people get older. No matter what I do, I will be sleep deprived even after one day of getting up before noon. I ended up in the hospital after 5 days of being forced to start work at 7 am. Humans need 7-9 hours of sleep a night or it affects their health immediately, and we don't get it unless we can sleep when our bodies need to. This is not something we can change. Anyway, I could talk til i'm blue in the face about how this disorder affects my life (I'd say dictates is more accurate), but it's pointless when talking to someone who doesn't understand it.


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