# Comparing 4 + 8 Archetypes (458, 468 and 478)



## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

This post will compare the multiple differences between 458, 468 and 478 tritypes.

The 3 tritypes concerned with having FOUR and EIGHT fixes (458, 468 and 478) display those behavioral and psychological patterns : 

• Envy and Lust merge into a very intense and individualistic personality that prioritizes self-actualization and expression more than anything else. People with this combination remain true to themselves and combat anything trying to deter them from keeping their identity in check;

• Double reactive stance; the need to express and validate their emotional realness of a situation is enhanced;

• Protective, emotional and intense energy;

• Somewhat masculine energy, but a little on the lone wolf side;

• The melancholic, self-searching FOUR is a odds with the weakness-denying, strong willed EIGHT;

• There's a great dichotomy between the FOUR need for validating emotions and the EIGHT stance of repressing vulnerabilities in favor of a strong façade;

• Most likely combination to be true to themselves and leave off the social masks;


*Differences Between Archetypes :*


*Emotional Life*

• 458s are very emotionally guarded and don't easily share their inner life with anybody. They feel things deeply and for a long time; They love to examine and analyze what they are feeling;

• 468s are the most reactive tritype of all and cannot stand seeing and feeling that someting's off or fake about any situations; They are very volatile and can swing from peace into reaction very quickly;

• 478s are a little less concerned with feelings things deeply and prefer using their emotional side for their creative endeavors. They love to express what they feel in a novel, unprecedented ways;


*Intellectual Processes*

• 458s gain intellectual and emotional security by understanding what makes people tick and how people behavior affect each other in a deeper way; Once they settle on a definitive way of looking at things (theories, personal experience, etc.), they become adamant about it and it's very difficult to change their mind;

• 468s look for inconsistencies in their environment and in people, trying to call out anything that seems inauthentic of congruent with overall narrative. They are hyperreactive and argumentative in order to invalidate the person's opinion;

• 478s see through what's missing in order to open new paths of learning for themselves and others. They can be quite adamant about going a certain way and are confident and positive whil doing it. They can litterally see multiple possibilities to combine and create something new in their environment;


*Security*

• 458s find security through gaining more insight through their intellectual researches. They try to understand how things work by creating thorough analyses and thus gain confidence by defending their point;

• 468s find security through finding out the truth about any situation, especially murky ones. They like to be the one reporting inconsistencies and being praised for their audacity;

• 478s find security through concretizing their vision and dreams and by making things happen in a new and original way. They are true non-conformists who strive to be free from going the conventional way;


*Potential Problems*

• 458s may run the risk of being too closed minded and argumentative about what they know to be the truth. Since they look at things very thorougly, they can use their knowledge as a weapon, attacking any differing minds with it. Also, this tritype isn't the best communicator in the sense that they can be curt and a bit rude about information that they perceive as superficial or incomplete. The also tend to keep their language peppered with complicated and/or posh terms that might confuse people. They may need to be more open-minded and understand that people don't understand things the same way as they do and often are satisfied with more simple answers.

• 468s are so reactive that they might not realize that they need to stop and analyze the situation more before jumping to conclusions. They can call off a situation prematurely and can get into hot water because of it. Additionally, they can be a little to aggressive and threatening when trying to denounce a situation or prove their point and can dissuade people from believing in them. It can be really hard for the archetype to refrain their emotional side even when discussing about everyday subject and because of that, they may not realize that they are being reactive and emotional about something;

• 478s are the least cooperative of all 27 tritypes because they need to see and experience everything their own way. The may seek freedom in every situation and might feel easily trapped when conforming to a certain way of operating things. They also tend to overly believe in their capacity to change a situation and not take into consideration other's input, which might cause them to be percieved as arrogant and opinionated. Finally, the tend to follow what's inspire them only, leaving out uninteresting stuff that can be useful for later;


*Patterns & Structure*

• 458s are triple independent thinker. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that want to come up with an idiosyncratic view or answer to look up information and learn about their environment and themselves. This means that they can be very selective about accepting information from an outside source, especially if they are knowledgable in said subject. When combining this tritype with the self-preservation instinct, this gives off a pretty introverted and solitary character. This combination is probably the most independent one of all, especially when leading with FIVE or EIGHT. They are very focused on survival and can be very wise about subject such as existentialism or life and death in general. Sexual subtypes are more passionate as always but with this archetype, the accent is on sharing intimacy with one romantic parter. They can give everything and even sacrifice themselves for their partner in exchange for eternal faithfulness. Social subtypes are somewhat at odds with this tritype. They like to be seen as a the wise and ressourceful person of the group and can even be the silent leader orchestrating everything in the background. They might not always feel up to the task though, even if they can hide it well.

• 468s are triple reactive and intense tritype. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that need to track down inconsistencies and false pretences in order to feel secure and in control of their environment. They use their intuition and emotional intelligence in order to sniff out the truth behind events and people and can protect others whil doing so. When combined with the self-preservation subtype, this tritype is very focused on protecting their close friends and family and maintaining material security. They are less emotionally reactive than the other two subtypes. Sexual subtypes are the most intense and reactive combination of all. They want to address troublesome situations readily and are extremely persistent, not easily deterred when proved otherwise. They are fiercely protective of their loved ones and can be very possessive and jealous. The social subtype is more militant and socially engaged. They can fight for their rights and tend to be uncompromising when doing so. They also protect vulnerable or marginalized people and want are often feel deeply involved with personal causes;

• 478s are triple creative and innovative. This means that this archetype has all the three enneatypes in each center of intelligence that want to forge their own path in life and making their dreams a reality. They are often called trail-blazers because they like to go off the beaten path in order to create their own reality. They are very independent and use their intuition to help other people see things differently, often by letting them see all the possibilities that can unfold from one decision. The self-preservation subtype is less flamboyant and more practical than the other two subtypes.They want to maintain their independence and enjoy life to the fullest while creating. While they have access to their emotions, they tend to disregard them if they take too much negative space in their lives. Sexual variants are the most magical and intense and want to make things happen quickly with panache. Like all sexual subtypes, then tend to be deeply involved in their intimate relationships and may want to search for the ideal partner. The can also fall in love with their ideas and aren't always grounded. The social subtype is more protective and feel they're on a mission to help people understand the world differently. They like to communicate their enthousiasm but can be a little less idependent than the sexual and self-preservation variants. 


*Possible Mistypes*

• Social 478s, especially leading with SEVEN can feel like 468s because they are less keen on indulging on their sin of gluttony than the other subtypes;

• Sexual FOURS with 458 may look like a 468 or even 478 because the look flamboyant and less removed from their environment than the other subtypes;

• Social FIVES with 458 tritype can confuse their archetype with the 468 or 478 because they are more outgoing and group-conscious;

• Self-preservation EIGHTS, especially with a NINE wing with a 468 tritype can easily look like 458 because they are more boundary setters than with a SEVEN wing;


*MBTI*

• 458s' most common MBTI types are : INTJ (548), ENTJ (854), INFJ (458) and sometimes INFP (458) and INTP (548). This tritype is rarely associated with sensing types (only ISTP could be a possibility). This archetype is mostly found within NTJs;

• 468s' most common MBTI types are : ENFP (648), INFP (468), INFJ (468) and sometimes INTJ (648). It is uncommon to see sensing types with this tritype and when they do identify with it, they are mostly Sps;

• 478s' most common MBTI types are : ENFP (748), INFP (478), ENTP (784) and sometimes INTP (748) or ENFJ (874). This is mostly an NF or perceiving preference tritype, as not many sensing or judging types are found to be this tritype;


*Miscellaneous Differences*

• 458s are more into their own little world and need more quiet time than 468s and 478s;

• 458s are much less impulsive than 468s, who will jump into action (or reaction) most of the time;

• 478s show off their creative spirit for everyone to see (even if self-preservation); 458s prefer to keep it private;

• 468s takes things too seriously sometimes and can get a bit of a drama queen while 478s are more distant and focused on creating;

• 458s fear sudden changes in their environment, while 478s often creates them organically;

• 478s' main goal is to actualize their full potential in creative endeavors, 458s' main objective is to understand deeply some area of knowledge and defend it, 468s' main goal is to seek out the truth in all situation in order to maintain authenticity and security;

• 468s are the true rebels that fight against the machine while 478 only defend themselves when someone or something is antagonisitc toward their innovative visions;

• 458s are more naturally removed from the outside world than 468s and 478s;

• 478s are usually very positive and happy. This isn't the case for 468s and 458s;

• 468s can go to greath lengths to advocate for change and is very persistent in its action. Both 458s and 478s don't have the same interest or energy to pursue the truth.


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## chakulaab (Mar 3, 2021)

I'm an 8w9 sp/sx ISTP, can you help me?Which am I more likely to be? I feel like I'm either 846 or 854. I still can't really figure which one. I don't really have 6 traits but these explanations fits me while I feel like a 5 often but not sure if it's my second type or just the disintegration.


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

chakulaab said:


> I'm an 8w9 sp/sx ISTP, can you help me?Which am I more likely to be? I feel like I'm either 846 or 854. I still can't really figure which one. I don't really have 6 traits but these explanations fits me while I feel like a 5 often but not sure if it's my second type or just the disintegration.


Keep in mind that we all have more than one tritype, so it's completely normal to hover between fixes. In fact most people have around 4 to 6 tritypes that they circle around depending on the situation. The main tritype is still in charge though, and you keep relying on it upon meeting new problems and situations.

The main difference between 864 and 854 is their level of emotional expressiveness when confronted with external data that they feel is off-putting or falsified. Truth-Tellers (864) are immediate in their reactivity and want to challenge authority by taking off any sense of falsehood that they deem illegitimate. Their minds are like lighting : they see things unfolding far in advance compared to most tritypes and want to call off what they consider potentially harmful or dangerous to those who are close to them. They are often anti-authoritarian and are wary of forces of oppression. Because of this, they can be so alarming and aggressive in their attempt to warn people that they can become exhausting or controlling to others.

854 are darker and less assertive than 864. They are more comfortable when behind-the-scenes and is the only EIGHT that can seem truly introverted at times. This tritype hides its emotionality behind an quietly arrogant streak and like to know what makes people tick and weak. They are exceptionally good at creating mental frameworks of what they've learned and making connections between notions. They are often street-smart rather than book-smart, but they do enjoy reading a lot. This is also the most stubborn and unwavering tritype when it comes to opinions, as they will only accept new information if said source is competent and deely-researched enough for them. 

Overall, the key to understand which tritype fits best is to see which enneatype in one center is more present consistently throughout our life : is your desire to retreat into your mind and be unaffected by your environment (FIVE) stronger than your need to feel safe and certain of any situation you're in atm (SIX) ? Do you seek validation from others and are secretly doubtful of yourself (SIX) more than you want to amass personal knowledge and feel safe by knowing a lot (FIVE)?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I find most of the 458 information relatable, however, I am most assuredly a *5*w6-*8*w7-*4*w5 So/Sx ENTP.


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## OswaldS (Dec 7, 2020)

The descriptions are heavily skewed towards 4, I don't think 864 would be so concerned about "truth". For example, Chairman Mao is a typical 864, he had a traumatic childhood, was frequently beaten by his father. From these traumatic experiences Mao learned to be independent and value strength. During the Great Leap Forward, Mao ignored truth because he didn't want to look weak and vulnerable. 

468 "truth" teller, I use quotation mark around truth because unhealthy or average 468 are often very stubborn about their perception of "truth", which sounds more like bigotry and dogmatism to me.
684 hot head, probably the most impulsive tritype, king of counter-phobic 6, almost hilariously denying and challenging his deep fears.
864 self-righteous power freak, examples are Chairman Mao and Adolf Hitler.

I think the most difficult type is sx/so 684 ExFP, sx is impulsive, 684 is impulsive, ExFP is again impulsive. The sp blindspot means this type gets emotional quickly and becomes unconcerned with their and others' personal welfare and security. I think intense, irrational, impulsive emotions are inherently evil and should be avoided at all costs. It's ok to have emotions, but they should be reined in.


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## blossomier (Jul 24, 2020)

Great thread! I'm still new to enneagram and archetypes, but I find the things you've posted about 458 very relatable. Thanks for the clear explanation on these three archetypes.


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## SpaceDud (Mar 25, 2021)

I'm an ENFP 4w3 sp/sx. Is it possible that I'm a 478 or even 487 instead of 748? Definitely much more introverted and I don't relate that much to the 7, although I do see it sometimes. I'm definitely good at using Ne but I don't value it as a function. I wouldn't put the 7 infront of my tritype, I just wonder if that contradicts the system in some way. Very, very Insightful article though!


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

SpaceDud said:


> I'm an ENFP 4w3 sp/sx. Is it possible that I'm a 478 or even 487 instead of 748? Definitely much more introverted and I don't relate that much to the 7, although I do see it sometimes. I'm definitely good at using Ne but I don't value it as a function. I wouldn't put the 7 infront of my tritype, I just wonder if that contradicts the system in some way. Very, very Insightful article though!


Yeah 468s are plentiful as ENFPs, so I wouldn't be surprised. Take note that it's totally normal to hesitate between one or two tritypes and it may a likely indication that you have multiple secondary tritypes (like everyone else in fact). People have a minimum of two tritypes and a max of 7 depending on the wings on each center. For example, if someone is 874 with 8w7 7w8 and 4w5, they only have two tritypes : the main one (874) and a secondary one (854). If someone is 864 with 8w9 6w7 and 4w5, then they have : 864, 874, 964, 974 and 954 (5 tritypes)!


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## jcmoore65 (Mar 7, 2016)

8w9 sp/sx 845 INFJ here. I'm surprised by the degree to which you've seemingly nailed all the descriptions for 845 here, @Karkino. Truly well done.


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

jcmoore65 said:


> 8w9 sp/sx 845 INFJ here. I'm surprised by the degree to which you've seemingly nailed all the descriptions for 845 here, @Karkino. Truly well done.


 Thank you so much! It means a lot to me


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## Gentle Powerhouse (Jun 10, 2021)

Hey! This is amazing and one of the best comparisons and descriptions I've read on tritypes! Great job!
Question/comment: I am trying to figure out if I am 854 or 874 and relate to those descriptions almost equally. I am more introverted and self pres 8. I believe my wings are more balance and am wondering if it's because of the influence of the 7 wing and/or 5's line to 7's or 8's line to 5. There are so many layers and I cant pull it apart.


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## Karkino (May 25, 2017)

Gentle Powerhouse said:


> Hey! This is amazing and one of the best comparisons and descriptions I've read on tritypes! Great job!
> Question/comment: I am trying to figure out if I am 854 or 874 and relate to those descriptions almost equally. I am more introverted and self pres 8. I believe my wings are more balance and am wondering if it's because of the influence of the 7 wing and/or 5's line to 7's or 8's line to 5. There are so many layers and I cant pull it apart.


The trick differencing 854 and 874 is their overall energy level and the way they handle anxiety. 854's 8/5 line is amplified so they really rely on moving against and away from people when they want to something. They think strategically whenever they have to make a move into the world and are more energy-conscious, so they want to preserve their energy level. In contrast, 874's 7 wing is amplified, so they are really seeking novelty and stimulation into their environment and are more confident in their ability to get what they want. They are also more impulsive and are extremely quick-minded or mercurial.

Another way to look at it is that 854 are more somber and darker in their thought-process, meaning that they focus on finding what is hidden from appearances and often taboo to divulge. 874 is focused on current or future possibilities have a more positive outlook on any situation. They are also focused on the magical and uncanny while 854 are driven by unearthing the dire truths of life.


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