# The Organic Life



## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

Welcome to Life





*If you had a chance at immortality, would you take it? What would you do with a second chance at life?*


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Tiers 2 and 3 scare the bejeezus out of me. No one, and I mean _no one_, is going to alter my mind against my will. I consider that a fate worse than death. I would no longer be myself...I'd just be an advertising robot. 

...And if people forgot copyrighted works, there would be a lot less to talk about.


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## DarkWarrior (Sep 21, 2011)

Immortality no, longer time on this earth sure. Though seriously the finite nature of our existence is what makes it precious.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Oh, and another thing that occurred to me: That thing in the beginning where your mental state is "adjusted" to "calm you down." ...What if that was intended to convey that you could be forced to make the choice _not_ to destroy your simulated mind if you don't agree with the ToS? Brr.

If turns out that it is possible to simulate a person's mind, I do not want it to turn out like this. Ever.


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## Ntuitive (Jan 6, 2012)

all the terms of conditions lol.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

The thing is, to simulate a similarly complex world requires magnitudes of order more 'computation' (ultimately resources) than the Earth itself.

So is this a glorified game? A moribund world? A playground for the rich?


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

Snow Leopard said:


> So is this a glorified game? A moribund world? A playground for the rich?


Essentially, yes. These rich technocrats think they can bypass evolution. That's the scariest part...


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Enki said:


> Essentially, yes. These rich technocrats think they can bypass evolution. That's the scariest part...


LOL.

*pulls plug* :wink:


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> Tiers 2 and 3 scare the bejeezus out of me. No one, and I mean _no one_, is going to alter my mind against my will. I consider that a fate worse than death. I would no longer be myself...I'd just be an advertising robot.
> 
> ...And if people forgot copyrighted works, there would be a lot less to talk about.


That's encouraging to hear, but aren't hordes of people already advertising zombies? Many are walking billboards, parroting memes, movie quotes, mental short-cuts, and acting against deeply-rooted nature. This is satire, so it reflects a current trend, but in another, however unlikely form. How much control do you really have?


Angelic Gardevoir said:


> Oh, and another thing that occurred to me: That thing in the beginning where your mental state is "adjusted" to "calm you down." ...What if that was intended to convey that you could be forced to make the choice _not_ to destroy your simulated mind if you don't agree with the ToS? Brr.
> 
> If turns out that it is possible to simulate a person's mind, I do not want it to turn out like this. Ever.


I never thought of that! Very scary... so you don't have the choice to die; just a ghost. Interesting.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Enki said:


> That's encouraging to hear, but aren't hordes of people already advertising zombies? Many are walking billboards, parroting memes, movie quotes, mental short-cuts, and acting against deeply-rooted nature. This is satire, so it reflects a current trend, but in another, however unlikely form. How much control do you really have?


That's a good point...yet direct manipulation of the mind is infinitely more terrifying. The way it is now, advertising has to at least work through one's mental processes. You can assert at least some control. 



> I never thought of that! Very scary... so you don't have the choice to die; just a ghost. Interesting.


Well, I'm not sure if that was intentional. Yet if it was...O_O


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## Bote (Jun 16, 2010)

Pretty fucked up scenario. 'Welcome to life' :dry:


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## Peripheral (Jan 8, 2011)

I want no parts of that deal.


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## CoopV (Nov 6, 2011)

Um yea I think I'd just kill myself before being forced into one of those programs.


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## KingFrog (Feb 15, 2012)

Does anyone else think that it doesn't matter because of the Mind-body problem of consciousness?

Why would copying all of your brain make your consciousness follow?
What if they copied you while you were still alive? Surely you would not have a split-screen of life.

And if they copied you into the computer while you were alive, then you died, why would you think your consciousness would even transfer? Is there anyway to even prove your consciousness would transfer?

This brings up the transporter problem in star-trek. If the transporter discombobulates you then recombobulates the exact copy of you somewhere else, is that really you? If the machine glitched and recombobulated 2 versions of yourself, would you be one of those? would you be both? or would you be neither? 

The recombobulated people would act exactly the same way you would, because they are atomically exact copies. No one would be able to tell the difference. Consciousness may not even be real. Or maybe is not a physical phenomenon. However this is going more into the realms of philosophy than science.


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## Enkidu (Apr 19, 2010)

KingFrog said:


> Does anyone else think that it doesn't matter because of the Mind-body problem of consciousness?
> 
> And if they copied you into the computer while you were alive, then you died, why would you think your consciousness would even transfer? Is there anyway to even prove your consciousness would transfer?
> 
> ...


Yes, that's a huge part of it, I think. That's the basic premise of Plutarch's _Ship of Theseus_; how often can something be replicated and recombined before it loses its original essence. In this case, can a synthetic shell hold (or keep captive) a human soul or consciousness. It's the same dilemma explored in Shelley's _Frankenstein_. Many would argue (and I would agree) that humans are materialists, and our consciousness is wholly *organic*. Everything we experience in life through our 5-6 senses is receptive: we only think and perceive because we see and feel. 



KingFrog said:


> Why would copying all of your brain make your consciousness follow?
> What if they copied you while you were still alive? Surely you would not have a split-screen of life.


That there is the greatest fear in this mess; and I wonder if it's a happy accident for some. I get the sense that options 2 & 3 don't offer the luxury of a full transference of your consciousness or personality. Besides what the narration in the video stated, the assumption is that puppets don't need a will or self-knowledge; that's inconvenient, in a legal sense. I'm not even sure if you can copy a person completely to begin with. What do you mean by a "split-screen of life"?


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## 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 (Nov 22, 2009)

The good thing is that people inside of the program would not be able to make any money outside of the program... so after your bank (and your family's if they were willing to pay) went empty the company should at least delete you.

The better thing is that if they can load a brain into a computer, there would be little stopping it from going the other direction, so if you are rich enough you may be able to get a new body and avoid this program entirely.

The worst thing, is that that means they would be also able to advertise and limit brain functions of those outside of the program. It would of course be harder to legalize, but no one would be willing admit that they did it to them or press charges once they did it.

I think the best thing would be for a program like this to be funded by the government, which would bypass corporate greed.


KingFrog said:


> Why would copying all of your brain make your consciousness follow?


You don't have to bring up something unnatural or go into the realms of science fiction to explore this idea. Our neurons are constantly making new connections, disabling old ones, dying off, and multiplying (slowly, but current science says neurons do undergo cellular division). We are not the same person from one instance to another. Furthermore, (if certain physics theories are correct) the universe is constantly branching off into new branches, each creating new versions of you. Consciousness or the illusion of consciousnesses persists in these situations, so it should persist in other situations as well, as long as their is a memory connection to give a sense of continuation.



> What if they copied you while you were still alive? Surely you would not have a split-screen of life.


Your consciousness would split just as it does when the universe splits. You would observe from all points, but they would not be connected, just as two people can observe from different points, but they are no longer connected. The past would be the same for the consciousness, but it would diverge from this point.


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## ibage (May 5, 2012)

I'm curious about what lies beyond life. I have no issues turning this down for death. Hell, if this were forced on me, I'd consider this one of the rare occasions where suicide would become an option for me.


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