# What do Sensors talk about with each other?



## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Strelnikov said:


> They talk about stuff. They can talk about their day, they can talk about people, like friends and relatives, some small talk, sports, but they can also talk from time to time about politics, some history. It's not that they don't talk about deeper stuff, it's just that they don't talk about those things as often as intuitives. Also, they don't dig as deep as intuitives into a topic like intuitives. I grew up in a family where everyone was an S-type and this is what I've noticed from my interactions with them... Actually, I think even going up to my grandparents (those I've met)... all S-types and all introverts.
> 
> Now, I'm an intuitive. And I don't really talk about random abstract ideas... I never ever ask myself: what is the purpose of life? Or I don't think about humanity as a whole... I rarely do that. Fact is I take a subject much like those discussed by S types and transform it into a philosophical discussion.
> 
> ...


Eh. Going by your standards, you would not type me as an ESTP if you didn't actually see my ESTP label on my forehead in a real life setting. Even as early as 1999 (when I was 18) I was talking about sports team franchise management (was a huge fan of the Raptors back then) with other people on the internet. 

Before that, I was a walking encyclopedia of Cricket facts, stats, figures, history. I knew not just the mechanics of the sport, but the racial stereotypes that played a huge role in how certain teams from South Asia were not taken seriously by the Brits and the Aussies who had their own little white man's club of sports. I was also an active cricketer so on the field pretty much daily. 

To think that all the people I talked to about the over-arching aspects of sports management and societal implications were all intuitive types and not different types who just happened to be interested in sports is kind of an over-simplified methodology with respect to conversion to typology. 

So again, are we really applying theory, or biases? Or biased interpretation of theory in order to have this conversation in the first place .. which is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of through expressed annoyance at misapplication of certain stereotypes - especially the one around depth of conversation.


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## Neige Noire (Nov 28, 2017)

Pretty much what intuitives are talking about. I don't think there is that much of a difference. I think it depends more on the individual, rather than the type itself.


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

The Immigrant said:


> Eh. Going by your standards, you would not type me as an ESTP if you didn't actually see my ESTP label on my forehead in a real life setting. Even as early as 1999 (when I was 18) I was talking about sports team franchise management (was a huge fan of the Raptors back then) with other people on the internet.
> 
> Before that, I was a walking encyclopedia of Cricket facts, stats, figures, history. I knew not just the mechanics of the sport, but the racial stereotypes that played a huge role in how certain teams from South Asia were not taken seriously by the Brits and the Aussies who had their own little white man's club of sports.
> 
> ...


I don't care all that much about the stats, figures and stuff like that or even about franchise management... Hmmm... I'll never understand the logic of the franchise system... I won't get into cricket either (I don't know much about that sport), but it's not about knowing, it's about where you're heading... For example you might talk about the racial stereotypes... say 33% of the time, I would talk about it 66% of the time. It's not that you wouldn't understand what I might be talking about, but past a certain point, you would grow bored or want to change the subject, while I would be frustrated since I might want to dig into the subject for hours. The ESTPs I know are interested in deeper discussions (so are ESFPs), but they grow disinterested while I'm just warming up.

For example, as I said I don't know stats, I don't care about stats. I don't care about the exact numbers. I care about what they say mostly. An S-type might want to hear something like: 10% did X 3 years ago, 15% did X 2 years ago, 24% did X 1 year ago, 41% did X this year... My attention won't be directed at the numbers themselves, what I will get from that is: the trend is upward at an accelerated rate and by next year most people will do X. I don't care about the exact numbers, but about the conclusions I can draw based on them and where things are going.

Another example, my brother ESTJ, we both like military history, but his knowledge... or should I say his focus is more oriented towards who did what, when and where. We both watch historical documentaries. He watches more documentaries about military technology, he cares more about details of how guns work for example. I would watch more documentaries telling a story of historical evolution through time, about strategy or (and this is unique to me compared to him, he doesn't really display an interest about these aspects) about what history says about human nature. At the same time, he (unique to him) knows about specific ships or units, stuff I don't really care about. He's more about the stats, I'm more about what the stats say.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

arts, sports, politics, philosophy, economics, religion, relationships, feelings, psychology, science, technology, family, friends, trends, TV, movies, music, history, education, health, world news, celebrities, literature, sociology...


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Stevester said:


> arts, sports, politics, philosophy, economics, religion, relationships, feelings, psychology, science, technology, family, friends, trends, TV, movies, music, history, education, health, world news, celebrities, literature, sociology...


This thread went about exactly as I expected it to go. We can sit here and tell them everything about ourselves but they will revert back to their circle jerk about their really deep thoughts.

It's a waste of time, effort and energy. I think PerC is a waste of time and energy.


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Dscross said:


> One of my oldest friends is an ESTP. We do have conversations about very heavy topics. We were talking about the impact of social media on the society the other day and how it has changed the world and people's brains. But I don't feel connected to him in the same way I do with my initutive friends for some reason. I can't get past...something... with them to take the realtionship to the next level. It's difficult to explain. I mean, it could just be my specific friends.


I am capable of deeper discussions, but I don't bond with people through conversations alone. Actions speak louder than words. One of my fondest memories and was a deep, bonding experience with my father was when he sat down with me on the deck drinking his favorite scotch discussing a disagreement we had had. He had said before at different times that he loved, or tried to offer words of reassurance and acceptance but they're just words. If his favorite thing to drink were milkshakes, it would have had the same value for me. It was the timing and his choice of actions that held meaning for me that I doubt that he really understood at the time. Later on, I've given it more thought and read into why it held so much significance for me. It represented something for me. It held meaning and I felt like I could connect and bond with him. 

I don't think you're going to connect with a Se-doms on a deeper level if you're always relying on having deep conversations. I don't know if I'm explaining this right, but a conversation, no matter how complex or interesting in itself isn't going to carry the same emotional investment and meaning. It has also gone the other way. I've experienced someone saying something but I've watched their actions and timing and I knew in the pit of my stomach that I wanted nothing to do with them. It can be difficult to put words. 

Bonding and connections happen in real time. Not when you've had time to assess the situation and thought it out or in the through having a long, interesting conversation. I'm not great with Si-doms, but my observation with them came when I proved reliable. When they knew they could count on me to come through for them. Words aren't enough.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

Strelnikov said:


> An S-type would focus in the discussion on what transfers a team should do, who should play on which side, what substitutions the coach should do. An N-type (me) would discuss the situation of the club, the actions of the federation, the competitive system (I hate the current system in my country, it sucks) and even the history of the sport and the trends (like how come there are only a handful of countries winning international competitions? What's so special about them?)


I explain that sports are a tool of the elite to subvert rebellion.

I'm a dishwasher. I went into work today for a couple of hours to help clean up. I explained to my coworker that I like to talk about understanding obstacles to world peace, and that I'm not used to talking about sports or celebrities like he does (I also see celebrities as tools of the elite). I then brought up Rowdy Roddy Piper and asked him if he'd seen "They Live". He said he hadn't, but he told me about Ronda Rousey. He showed me a video on his phone and said he was watching the match tonight. The 2 cooks then started talking about wrestling. Fortunately, I used to work in the KB Toys chain and know a little about pro wrestling from that experience. The other dishwasher then confessed to me a psychological issue he deals with. I learned that I have to give more.


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

The Immigrant said:


> I think PerC is a waste of time and energy.


I gain a lot of insight here.


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Strelnikov said:


> I don't care all that much about the stats, figures and stuff like that or even about franchise management... Hmmm... I'll never understand the logic of the franchise system... I won't get into cricket either (I don't know much about that sport), but it's not about knowing, it's about where you're heading... For example you might talk about the racial stereotypes... say 33% of the time, I would talk about it 66% of the time. It's not that you wouldn't understand what I might be talking about, but past a certain point, you would grow bored or want to change the subject, while I would be frustrated since I might want to dig into the subject for hours. The ESTPs I know are interested in deeper discussions (so are ESFPs), but they grow disinterested while I'm just warming up.
> 
> For example, as I said I don't know stats, I don't care about stats. I don't care about the exact numbers. I care about what they say mostly. An S-type might want to hear something like: 10% did X 3 years ago, 15% did X 2 years ago, 24% did X 1 year ago, 41% did X this year... My attention won't be directed at the numbers themselves, what I will get from that is: the trend is upward at an accelerated rate and by next year most people will do X. I don't care about the exact numbers, but about the conclusions I can draw based on them and where things are going.
> 
> Another example, my brother ESTJ, we both like military history, but his knowledge... or should I say his focus is more oriented towards who did what, when and where. We both watch historical documentaries. He watches more documentaries about military technology, he cares more about details of how guns work for example. I would watch more documentaries telling a story of historical evolution through time, about strategy or (and this is unique to me compared to him, he doesn't really display an interest about these aspects) about what history says about human nature. At the same time, he (unique to him) knows about specific ships or units, stuff I don't really care about. He's more about the stats, I'm more about what the stats say.


Right... I'm more interested in social history. 

If you get me into a conversation about something I know a lot about. Like ballet, it's unlikely you'd get bored before me or have analyzed the psychology and physicality of the elite athletes and choreographers. Or the impacts they've had on dance. If you want to have a deeper conversation, instead of focusing on topics that you know a lot about, you could try learning more about what they know about. Not a sure winner because stupid people are stupid people and they might not know much of anything about anything. But it should work with a lot of people. Someone with a passing interest in something, will only know a lot about the parts of it that interests them.


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

The Immigrant said:


> This thread went about exactly as I expected it to go. We can sit here and tell them everything about ourselves but they will revert back to their circle jerk about their really deep thoughts.
> 
> It's a waste of time, effort and energy. I think PerC is a waste of time and energy.


I didn't actually mean to imply that. What I meant in the initial post was that what I consider deep, I believe might be different to what a sensor considers deep and I wanted to understand the difference. I was not trying to imply sensors were shallow or anything like that. 

From my knowledge and practice of meditation and my drug taking in my much younger days I'd actyually hazard a guess that many sensors may actually be deeper than Intutives in a lot of ways because they are more naturally connected to the environment or inside their own bodies.

But since I am not naturally attuned to this, I wanted a better way to connect with them in a deep way in conversational terms, which is where a lot of Ns draw meaning rather than from nature.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Sensors don't have some preferred topic on the whole.

If you are looking to connect with someone, focus on him/her as an individual. Who that person is, what they like or don't like, hobbies they pursued and ones they abandoned, previous jobs they've held or what they think about almost anything. People like to talk about themselves, and it's a good way to build a closer relationship with someone. 

There's really no magic answer except to work at your conversation skills and find out how to make the other person's experience with you a positive or fulfilling one.


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

Coburnator said:


> Sensors don't have some preferred topic on the whole.
> 
> If you are looking to connect with someone, focus on him/her as an individual. Who that person is, what they like or don't like, hobbies they pursued and ones they abandoned, previous jobs they've held or what they think about almost anything. People like to talk about themselves, and it's a good way to build a closer relationship with someone.
> 
> There's really no magic answer except to work at your conversation skills and find out how to make the other person's experience with you a positive or fulfilling one.


I already do that. My relationships with people are generally very good. I just don't feel anywhere near as deeply connected to sensors as I do with inutitives and I want to get the bottom of why. I am naturally curious about what makes people tick. My type is, in fact, known for that.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Dscross said:


> I already do that. My relationships with people are generally very good. I just don't feel anywhere near as deeply connected to sensors as I do with inutitives and I want to get the bottom of why. I am naturally curious about what makes people tick. My type is, in fact, known for that.


I suppose I don't have any insight to offer, then. Best of luck to you.


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

The Immigrant said:


> This thread went about exactly as I expected it to go. We can sit here and tell them everything about ourselves but they will revert back to their circle jerk about their really deep thoughts.
> 
> It's a waste of time, effort and energy. I think PerC is a waste of time and energy.


Who said deeper is better? I just think we just approach the same things from different angles and with different aims. No one way is better and each way has its own advantages and disadvantages.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

We like to talk about food. And do taste tests. That is, when we're not talking about going over Niagara Falls in a barrel or sky diving from the moon, lol.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

The Immigrant said:


> This thread went about exactly as I expected it to go. We can sit here and tell them everything about ourselves but they will revert back to their circle jerk about their really deep thoughts.
> 
> It's a waste of time, effort and energy. I think PerC is a waste of time and energy.


This forum is not too bad most of the time. 

The ''Guess The Type''forum where people type celebrities and characters is whole other story though. It's the MBTI equivalent of trying to discuss the art of music with hysterical 14 year old Backstreet Boys fans.


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

Stevester said:


> This forum is not too bad most of the time.
> 
> The ''Guess The Type''forum where people type celebrities and characters is whole other story though. It's the MBTI equivalent of trying to discuss the art of music with hysterical 14 year old Back Street Boys fans.


"Taylor Swift is INFJ"
"Deadpool is INFJ"
"The Backstreet Boys are all INFJ"


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Strelnikov said:


> *Who said deeper is better?* I just think we just approach the same things from different angles and with different aims. No one way is better and each way has its own advantages and disadvantages.


Everyone seeks depth and meaning in their life. You are (unintentionally) denying a person's humanity when you imply or as is the case of the OP, say that a group lacks depth. It is one of the few things that separates man from beast. Which is sort of funny, because when people say this, it belies a lack of compassion and insight into the minds of others when they can't see a problem with saying or implying such. 

I would agree that not everyone finds depth or meaning in the same place. Communing with nature can be a deep experience or a waste of time, depending on the person. Sex can be a cherished bonding experience or it can bought by the highest bidder and become a discarded memory soon after. Understanding a new philosophical idea can be a meaningful experience to one person and merely food for thought for another. The disrespect for other ways to find depth and meaning in other peoples lives is glossed over so rudely on a daily basis in MBTI is gross. And yet, it happens again and again. I'm not sure what can be done about it. Putting up advisories and declarations of equality doesn't change anything. I've looked them over already and obviously, it goes in one ear and straight out the other.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Strelnikov said:


> Who said deeper is better? I just think we just approach the same things from different angles and with different aims. No one way is better and each way has its own advantages and disadvantages.


Except that when I told you that we don't, you literally applied magic math to come up with figures and had to make assumptions to prove a point that you otherwise could not just to create one out of thin air - which is why I don't really care about your opinion at this point.



Stevester said:


> This forum is not too bad most of the time.


It's pretty bad. The fact that people who have all the capability in the world to actively conduct research don't is annoying. And no, I don't consider continuing to try to reassert the original assumptions irrespective of evidence presented as effective learning.


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

The Immigrant said:


> Except that when I told you that we don't, you literally applied magic math to come up with figures and had to make assumptions to prove a point that you otherwise could not just to create one out of thin air - which is why I don't really care about your opinion at this point.


It's not magic math, it's what I've personally noticed in my interactions with S-types. I grew up in a family of S-types, I know a lot of S-types and that's what I noticed. It's what people N-types who know nothing about MBTI and have never even heard of it told me about S-types. It is what it is... I'm sorry it's not what you were hoping for. But that is what I saw in real-life.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

The Immigrant said:


> It's likely or possible that the introverted sensing types don't say much on PerC because they may feel that their opinions are already invalidated through a certain amount of circle jerking that happens between intuitive types on typology forums and on PerC.


Well I was typed as ISFJ (Si-dom) and didn't actually feel reluctant to share any type related things, especially about Si. I have tried to explain to people in the past that it was more sophisticated than simply remembering facts and details, comparing the past with present.

I couldn't dismantle anyone's idea of SJs being traditionalists though. I got so much debate and disagreement about it that i gave up on talking about it because those people will always view it the way they want to.



> Given how tests go and how descriptions are written, it is incredibly easy to mistype as an intuitive type. It's harder to mistype as a sensor and you have to go very deep into theory in order to achieve what is your real process.


Yet Sensing types are more common by far. Most people on PerC type as iNtuitive, but the results that were gathered for statistics said otherwise. INFJ and INTJ were supposed to be the "rarest types" but they nothing of the sort on perC.



> I get typed frequently as an iNtuitive type or a Thinking type, and it's because that is the side of me that comes out the most when I talk to people online. Outside of a few close friends, most people would not consider me a Sensing type. My friends before my accident would never type me as high intuition at all. Also, in my daily life, I'm myself aware of how much I suppress the process of introverted iNtuition when I make decisions.
> 
> How much you tend to remain rooted to your preferences is what essentially results in more "carnal/raw/unfiltered" behavior, which is what creates behavioral stereotypes which create the typing dilemmas because it's essentially circular reasoning.


I get that. People here have insisted i'm INFJ, but most things people irl say about me point towards Sensing. It's really not reliable to type people behind screens. 

No idea where stereotypes come from but I believe they are caused by people misunderstand the theory and taking things too far. A personality type doesn't define you to the extent of your cognition, thought processes, interests, values, opinions, etc.


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## JennyJukes (Jun 29, 2012)

TeamPB said:


> Sex, sport, alcohol, drugs, of course.


I'm offended.

You forgot rock and roll?!?! Duh.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

JennyJukes said:


> I'm offended.
> 
> You forgot rock and roll?!?! Duh.


And what about chocolate? That's an endlessly fascinating source of conversation.


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## ThaddeusDC (Oct 10, 2018)

most people talk frivolities, so banal, bores me. Superficial talking, to talk the truth I believe the act of talking is like encrypted. Two or more people trying to really get the gist, but everything is always misunderstood. It is like I am talking in Greek and the other in German, pure gibberish. Except when I exercise my neurotic tendency to induce people to talk about what I read, about what I think that I know, besides that, I mostly shut up, because of the pointlessness of conversation.

Example: Yesterday i went to a house of a gorgeous baby. The uttermost topic in my mind was how gorgeous were her legs. And we engaged into chating. To sum up, we talked an entirely hour about nothing-to-do things, medicine, music, future aspirations etc. In my perverted mind the goal was her beautiful legs. And then the question aroused: Did she notice that I admire her legs? above all that non-sense talking and faking all the time just to have a look between her legs (she was wearing a skirt)?


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

Wisteria said:


> WYet Sensing types are more common by far. Most people on PerC type as iNtuitive, but the results that were gathered for statistics said otherwise. INFJ and INTJ were supposed to be the "rarest types" but they nothing of the sort on perC.
> 
> I get that. People here have insisted i'm INFJ, but most things people irl say about me point towards Sensing. It's really not reliable to type people behind screens.


I think it's more than most people in life are sensors but a lot (not all - before everyone starts biting my head off) that gravitate towards Jungian psychology and cognitive functions (as opposed to the MBTI test itself) are intuitives. That's why there is an imbalance within the community, not necessarily because they are mistyping. I'm not saying that some aren't though.


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

Roslyn said:


> Everyone seeks depth and meaning in their life. You are (unintentionally) denying a person's humanity when you imply or as is the case of the OP, say that a group lacks depth. It is one of the few things that separates man from beast. Which is sort of funny, because when people say this, it belies a lack of compassion and insight into the minds of others when they can't see a problem with saying or implying such.
> 
> I would agree that not everyone finds depth or meaning in the same place. Communing with nature can be a deep experience or a waste of time, depending on the person. Sex can be a cherished bonding experience or it can bought by the highest bidder and become a discarded memory soon after. Understanding a new philosophical idea can be a meaningful experience to one person and merely food for thought for another. The disrespect for other ways to find depth and meaning in other peoples lives is glossed over so rudely on a daily basis in MBTI is gross. And yet, it happens again and again. I'm not sure what can be done about it. Putting up advisories and declarations of equality doesn't change anything. I've looked them over already and obviously, it goes in one ear and straight out the other.


I never said that sensors lacked depth. I was trying to find out how sensors formed deep connections via conversation because I want to form deep connections with them too and I feel like there is communicastion barrier which stops real bonding like I can with Ns. I think I communicated it badly so everyone got defensive - I think a lot of people have been reading things into what I said which i didn't say.

As I've said further down, I actually think sensors are deeper than intutives in a lot of ways because of their connection to their bodies and the environment. I wish I could do that more easily. It's probably easier for sensors to feel a spiritual connections for that reason. I envy that!


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Dscross said:


> I think it's more than most people in life in sensors but a lot (not all - before everyone starts biting my heas off) that gravitate towards Jungian psychology and cognitive functions (as opposed to the MBTI test itself) are intuvtives. That's why there is an imbalance within the community, not necessarily because they are mistyping. I'm not saying that some aren't though.


Well yes that is what i was suggesting. This community =/= everyone.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

I think it's true that Sensors tend to engage less in mental masturbation, but it's not because they're too stupid to understand it, and it's not like they never do.

I think Intuitives tend to think more in terms of platonic forms while sensors tend to think more in terms of the more tangible. But both are capable of thinking both ways, since everyone has both a sensing and an intuitive function.


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## takemeoutyo (Oct 24, 2018)

anything involving the 5 senses. we're all missing the part of the brain allowing abstract thought, we're all like infants. i like to talk about the food i eat, how good the wind feels, what my feet smell like, the sound my cat makes when she coughs up stuff, and how good i am at looking at things. i also work a job requiring no thinking at all. so thats pretty much how i talk to other people


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Dscross said:


> I never said that sensors lacked depth. I was trying to find out how sensors formed deep connections via conversation because I want to form deep connections with them too and I feel like there is communicastion barrier which stops real bonding like I can with Ns. I think I communicated it badly so everyone got defensive - I think a lot of people have been reading things into what I said which i didn't say.
> 
> As I've said further down, I actually think sensors are deeper than intutives in a lot of ways because of their connection to their bodies and the environment. I wish I could do that more easily. It's probably easier for sensors to feel a spiritual connections for that reason. I envy that!


If some guy that I worked with, were asking probing questions, who I haven't warmed up to yet, he would have a difficult time finding a topic to engage me with. Not for because of our genders, but because I wouldn't really know him. Of course, there are people who aren't capable of a deeper conversation and no amount of time scratching that surface is going to get you anywhere. But you can find that a lot sooner when you do things with people that give you a chance to learn about them. Watch their reaction in a different environment to new stimuli. 

It's why you go do different things on each date. See how your date reacts to going to a movie (do they talk through the movie, do they understand the funny parts? what are their quirks? I'm watching my date more closely than I'm watching the movie) and we can talk about the movie afterwards over ice cream. Go bowling and see if they're a sore loser or polite (or at least funny) when winning. Just how grossed out do they get about the unhygienic aspects of the whole thing? (how often do they clean those finger holes in the bowling balls? how is an aerosol can supposed to clean shoes?) I'd like to see how they react to a traffic jam or a packed crowd or some other stressful situation, do they have grace under fire or do they get rude and angsty? I don't particularly like those situations either, but I don't like being around people who lose their shit too easily. It's not an accident that I'm taking them through these places. I'm showing them something about myself and getting a chance to see something important about them. 'Who are you? How do you handle life?' It's the experiences that I have with people that I get to come to understand them. I can find out if I like them and how trustworthy they are. 

Maybe it doesn't sound important to these 'deep' thinkers, but there are underlying messages in all of this. I don't know if I can find the words to explain it exactly. But each of these choices are telling me volumes about these guys, that hours of them telling me their incredible ideas wouldn't tell me. Like if they respect me? When they're stressed out, are they going to raise their voice at me? My ENFJ mother says I read too much into peoples actions, but I think she's wrong. I think peoples choices/actions tell me the most important things I need to know about them. I want to see evidence of trustworthiness before I seriously engage in opening up to them on any level. All of these intuitives looking to have deep conversations with people they only know from one place/situation, it's like they're rushing to third base with people who don't have enough report with yet.


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

Roslyn said:


> If some guy that I worked with, were asking probing questions, who I haven't warmed up to yet, he would have a difficult time finding a topic to engage me with. Not for because of our genders, but because I wouldn't really know him. Of course, there are people who aren't capable of a deeper conversation and no amount of time scratching that surface is going to get you anywhere. But you can find that a lot sooner when you do things with people that give you a chance to learn about them. Watch their reaction in a different environment to new stimuli.
> 
> It's why you go do different things on each date. See how your date reacts to going to a movie (do they talk through the movie, do they understand the funny parts? what are their quirks? I'm watching my date more closely than I'm watching the movie) and we can talk about the movie afterwards over ice cream. Go bowling and see if they're a sore loser or polite (or at least funny) when winning. Just how grossed out do they get about the unhygienic aspects of the whole thing? (how often do they clean those finger holes in the bowling balls? how is an aerosol can supposed to clean shoes?) I'd like to see how they react to a traffic jam or a packed crowd or some other stressful situation, do they have grace under fire or do they get rude and angsty? I don't particularly like those situations either, but I don't like being around people who lose their shit too easily. It's not an accident that I'm taking them through these places. I'm showing them something about myself and getting a chance to see something important about them. 'Who are you? How do you handle life?' It's the experiences that I have with people that I get to come to understand them. I can find out if I like them and how trustworthy they are.
> 
> Maybe it doesn't sound important to these 'deep' thinkers, but there are underlying messages in all of this. I don't know if I can find the words to explain it exactly. But each of these choices are telling me volumes about these guys, that hours of them telling me their incredible ideas wouldn't tell me. Like if they respect me? When they're stressed out, are they going to raise their voice at me? My ENFJ mother says I read too much into peoples actions, but I think she's wrong. I think peoples choices/actions tell me the most important things I need to know about them. I want to see evidence of trustworthiness before I seriously engage in opening up to them on any level. All of these intuitives looking to have deep conversations with people they only know from one place/situation, it's like they're rushing to third base with people who don't have enough report with yet.



See this is the kind of insight I have been looking for from this thread all along. Thank you. I found that really interesting. 

I can do those things, obviously, but it doesn't come very naturally to an N. Some of the times when I've felt the most alive was when I managed to overcome my brain's default and have a heightened awareness of my surroundings. Usually after extended periods of meditation (which I think is more important for high Ne users than anyone to ground us - i have Se demon).


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## Zaitzev (Nov 26, 2017)

From my experience, they talk about every single thing they do for the whole day or another.

EDIT (I missed the whole point lol) :
1. If you want to make friend with them, just small talk. Speak all the things going around you and them. And you guys going to be good. 

2. Be more patient when listening to them. Their topics might be somewhat boring but its not to them, so respect them regardless. I know this sounds shallow but there are few times when I caught myself not listening but giving a good response, so they end up liking me and talk more. 

3. Show more interest, encourage yourself the desire to know the small detail and things from their topic.

4. Reduce 'intuitive' topic unless they are ready for it. They can't digest our topic and we are pretty much like an alien to them.

5. Be honest and stay true to yourself. I've countless sensor friends and I always remind them of our uniqueness. It make it easier for us to accept and respect each other social need.

6. They have their own deep thoughts. Yes it might not be abstract, but it's just as deep as intuitive topic. For example a sensor I know have deep thoughts about history and the current controversial issue. Another sensor I know like to have deep discussion about human communication. They have their thing and we have ours. Encourage them to talk more and you'll find out.


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Dscross said:


> See this is the kind of insight I have been looking for from this thread all along. Thank you. I found that really interesting.
> 
> I can do those things, obviously, but it doesn't come very naturally to an N. Some of the times when I've felt the most alive was when I managed to overcome my brain's default and have a heightened awareness of my surroundings. Usually after extended periods of meditation (which I think is more important for high Ne users than anyone to ground us - i have Se demon).



I remember volunteering as a camp councilor at a summer camp years ago. In the staff room, there was a white girl that kept engaging a black woman in discussions on race. Not every day but often. People started murmuring that the girl was obsessed with race. If they had been paying attention, they would have seen that the girl brought up several topics each day. She was mostly ignored. It was only when issues of race came up, that the black woman was engaging her. Bored and lonely, the girl went with the only topic someone was willing to engage her on. What the girl was catching onto was that the woman engaging defensively and this was only working to isolate the girl further as people misinterpreted her intentions. Nothing came of it, but I found the interactions interesting. It wasn't about what they said, it was about what they didn't say and how things were interpreted. At the time, I couldn't put words to what I had observed and I wasn't matured enough to speak up and tell them where this was going wrong. Just that the two of them were endearing mostly because of the way they talked past each other. 

People do that a lot. They interrupt and talk over each other and past year each other and misunderstand each other. 

There is a smorgasbord of undercurrents in most conversations. 
Person 1 - "I have been trying to get this promotion at work. With this (insert latest event) I think I have a good chance-" (Seeking acceptance and reassurance from the person they are speaking to, that they are headed in the right direction.)
Person 2 - interrupting "That's good, I'm still trying to finish writing that book I was working on but I've run into-"(Has their own need for acceptance and their own insecurities.)
Person 1 - interrupted because needs have gone unfulfilled "Yeah you mentioned that. Hopefully you'll finish after I get my promotion." 

How do they problem solve? How loyal are they? What are their insecurities? How intelligent are they both emotionally and logically speaking? Are they adaptable? If you're not present in the moment, there's a lot of relevant information you are missing in these inane interactions that you could use to either make friends or use to your advantage in some way. Watch people and really listen (it's not all about listening with your ears). Even if they're talking about a celebrity, they are telling you something about their fears and insecurities. There is a constant flow of data pouring over us when we're talking to people. As boring as small talk is, most people are interesting. It is the thoughts they give words to that aren't.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Roslyn said:


> If some guy that I worked with, were asking probing questions, who I haven't warmed up to yet, he would have a difficult time finding a topic to engage me with. Not for because of our genders, but because I wouldn't really know him. Of course, there are people who aren't capable of a deeper conversation and no amount of time scratching that surface is going to get you anywhere. But you can find that a lot sooner when you do things with people that give you a chance to learn about them. Watch their reaction in a different environment to new stimuli.
> 
> It's why you go do different things on each date. See how your date reacts to going to a movie (do they talk through the movie, do they understand the funny parts? what are their quirks? I'm watching my date more closely than I'm watching the movie) and we can talk about the movie afterwards over ice cream. Go bowling and see if they're a sore loser or polite (or at least funny) when winning. Just how grossed out do they get about the unhygienic aspects of the whole thing? (how often do they clean those finger holes in the bowling balls? how is an aerosol can supposed to clean shoes?) I'd like to see how they react to a traffic jam or a packed crowd or some other stressful situation, do they have grace under fire or do they get rude and angsty? I don't particularly like those situations either, but I don't like being around people who lose their shit too easily. It's not an accident that I'm taking them through these places. I'm showing them something about myself and getting a chance to see something important about them. 'Who are you? How do you handle life?' It's the experiences that I have with people that I get to come to understand them. I can find out if I like them and how trustworthy they are.
> 
> Maybe it doesn't sound important to these 'deep' thinkers, but there are underlying messages in all of this. I don't know if I can find the words to explain it exactly. But each of these choices are telling me volumes about these guys, that hours of them telling me their incredible ideas wouldn't tell me. Like if they respect me? When they're stressed out, are they going to raise their voice at me? My ENFJ mother says I read too much into peoples actions, but I think she's wrong. I think peoples choices/actions tell me the most important things I need to know about them. I want to see evidence of trustworthiness before I seriously engage in opening up to them on any level. All of these intuitives looking to have deep conversations with people they only know from one place/situation, it's like they're rushing to third base with people who don't have enough report with yet.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Zaitzev said:


> From my experience, they talk about every single thing they do for the whole day or another.
> 
> EDIT (I missed the whole point lol) :
> 1. If you want to make friend with them, just small talk. Speak all the things going around you and them. And you guys going to be good.
> ...


Dude, sorry but, you need to research ENFJ's better.


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

Roslyn said:


> How do they problem solve? How loyal are they? What are their insecurities? How intelligent are they both emotionally and logically speaking? Are they adaptable? If you're not present in the moment, there's a lot of relevant information you are missing in these inane interactions that you could use to either make friends or use to your advantage in some way. Watch people and really listen (it's not all about listening with your ears). Even if they're talking about a celebrity, they are telling you something about their fears and insecurities. There is a constant flow of data pouring over us when we're talking to people. As boring as small talk is, most people are interesting. It is the thoughts they give words to that aren't.


I agree up to a point with what you are saying, as I said, but I don't think it's fair to call the conversations we have 'inane'. They may seem inane to you, but ideas mean A LOT to us. This is another place I was going with this thread. I think the fact that sensors 'can' have heavy conversations about really abstract stuff makes them think they are getting the same thing out of them in 'excitement' terms and for as longer periods. I'm not sure they are.

The trouble is you have Se hero, and while everything you just say here may come more naturally to you, it doesn't to us. For example,I have Se demon - my 8th function. And Si is my inferior, so bodily awareness is also hard for me. I have to REALLY WORK to be in the present moment. It takes HOURS, MONTHS, YEARS of practice. I am lucky enough to be able to do it a little bit because I've read a lot about it and praticed for years.

However, as an N, I also don't think that spiritual connection to the present moment (and direct observation of people) is the only place you can draw meaning and make bonding breakthroughs with people.

I do agree that being present to the moment with people is wonderful and can be a spiritual awakening for many, and even bring people closer. But, for a lot of Ns, we do get closer to others in the realm of ideas. I mean, if I'm talking with another N all night about ideas, I literally feel alive - in a different way to my environmentally aware self, but it certainly doesn't feel 'inane' to me, even though we've been talking about abstract stuff all night. It makes my feel complete when I'm with an NJ sometimes - like a meeting of minds.

Also, I can't speak for other N types, but as an ENFP, I combine observation of people with asking them questions about what makes them tick to find out more about them and make them feel like I'm interested without them having to guess. I don't think it's necessarily the worst way to go about it.


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## soop (Aug 6, 2016)

Dscross said:


> I wasn't trying to be condesceding, and I don't think I have a monopoly of what I consider to be 'deep conversations / relationships'. I just want to form deeper relationships with sensors through conversation without them losing interest with what I like to talk about. They'll listen to me, but many often don't engage as much as I'd like. Not all of them, obviously. That make sense?


This ain't it, chief. If you want to form deeper relationships with people treat them like the individuals they are. How do you know the people who don't share your interests are sensors? Do you ask everyone you meet to take an mbti test first, or do you just jump to conclusions about them upon meeting them?


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

soop said:


> This ain't it, chief. If you want to form deeper relationships with people treat them like the individuals they are. How do you know the people who don't share your interests are sensors? Do you ask everyone you meet to take an mbti test first, or do you just jump to conclusions about them upon meeting them?


Read some of my posts further down for answers to this. And yes I do that already. I was speaking in generalisations to get some people's opinions for a better life road map, obviously. That's all this entire forum is and all the MBTI and most of psychology is - generalisations. Everyone psycho-analyses others to an extent, whether they are aware of it or not.


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## letsrunlikecrazy (Sep 21, 2015)

I don't think I've ever felt deeply connected with someone just by talking. And I don't know if I've ever connected the way you talk about. There were a few instances where I came away from a conversation feeling very fond of someone I didn't think too highly of before. But as Roslyn pointed out the conversation topics themselves weren't too important, it was the small details of the interaction and what I observed of their behavior that made the difference. 



Dscross said:


> Also, I can't speak for other N types, but as an ENFP, I combine observation of people with asking them questions about what makes them tick to find out more about them and make them feel like I'm interested without them having to guess. I don't think it's necessarily the worst way to go about it.


To be honest, these types of questions make me uncomfortable. I don't know what makes me tick. I think different things make me tick differently in different situations. But if I say that, it's kind of like saying nothing at all. I could try and pull out a more general answer like "I'm mostly driven by X" but it won't feel 100% true, more like a hypothesis. I don't always want to tell other people these hypotheses about myself because they might be wrong or I might change my mind later, and some people latch onto these ideas with too much conviction.


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## soop (Aug 6, 2016)

Dscross said:


> Read some of my posts further down for answers to this. And yes I do that already. I was speaking in generalisations to get some people's opinions for a better life road map, obviously. That's all this entire forum is and all the MBTI and most of psychology is - generalisations. Everyone psycho-analyses others to an extent, whether they are aware of it or not.


Based on you generalizations in this thread it would really surprise me if you do. So how do you know the people you fail to connect with are sensors.


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## Northern Lights (Mar 25, 2016)

@Roslyn: Wisdom. A pleasure to read.



letsrunlikecrazy said:


> I don't think I've ever felt deeply connected with someone just by talking. And I don't know if I've ever connected the way you talk about.


And all of what she said.

@Dscross: Would it be terrible if the bottomline in all this was that "connecting" and "deep", as descriptions for inter-personal relations, were merely mental constructs of the Fi kind?


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

FWIW, I've never met anyone with whom I can identify. If I do, we're going to be busy.


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## LonelySpaceEmperor (Jan 4, 2018)

Strelnikov said:


> Another example, my brother ESTJ, we both like military history, but his knowledge... or should I say his focus is more oriented towards who did what, when and where. We both watch historical documentaries. He watches more documentaries about military technology, he cares more about details of how guns work for example. I would watch more documentaries telling a story of historical evolution through time, about strategy or (and this is unique to me compared to him, he doesn't really display an interest about these aspects) about what history says about human nature. At the same time, he (unique to him) knows about specific ships or units, stuff I don't really care about. He's more about the stats, I'm more about what the stats say.


Exactly the same with me, and my sensor friend. The part of history we share interest in is World War 2; while I am mostly interested in the strategies, politics , and especially the ideologies (Eugenics, Nordicism, Anthropology, Lebensraum, and all that Occult stuff that was going on) , my friend seems to be immensely interested in objects, especially the tanks, and aircrafts.


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## havingadventures (Jul 16, 2017)

The Immigrant said:


> Sorry, your iNtuitive ramblings don't make sense to the likes of me. I'm a Sensor remember. We're not capable of big think like you lot. I don't care about you appearing condescending. That doesn't bother me. Condescending self-proclaimed iNtuitives on PerC are literally a dime a dozen.
> 
> Why not use your magical intuition to answer your own questions for you? Why do you need the concreteness of experiential wisdom from sensing types to indulge you?


If, indeed, your natural objective is to have a chosen (or preferred) experience with life that is practical and rational, I fail to note how you are accomplishing this within your rebuttal quoted above. If you are above the trait of condescension, then a tone adjustment in your delivery would be a practical suggestion. 

If, however, you are using your rebuttal as a nod to Mbti in the effort to create a paradigm (pattern or example) of how intuitives and sensors are greatly different people and how we should stay within our groups and refuse to try understanding the other (despite the fact that we all have a little bit of every quality within us) - then that is a mistaken theory.

Through many studies, research, and practical knowledge passed down throughout history, it is evident that we are all able to call upon different facets of our personalities should the situation arise. We only “lean” more towards one quality or another. Our minds, human experiences, and desires are more alike to each other than different. 

Humans are interesting creatures, with brains that modern day science has only scratched the surface of. Which is an intriguing area of research. What we are capable of should not be boxed into a personality profile. You are more than your personality profile, as I’m sure you’ve proven to yourself and others throughout your life. 

I would encourage you to open your mind in a rational and measurable way to other ways of thought, as well as to maintain a curiosity of the various human mindsets that get all humans through the same day, but in different ways (same goal, various paths, often similar objectives). The complex systems these actions require is truly intriguing, especially where you note that each personality passes over certain similar thought processes. This will add to and enrich your, no doubt, very large internal file of interesting facts and complex systems. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

havingadventures said:


> If, indeed, your natural objective is to have a chosen (or preferred) experience with life that is practical and rational, I fail to note how you are accomplishing this within your rebuttal quoted above. If you are above the trait of condescension, then a tone adjustment in your delivery would be a practical suggestion.
> 
> If, however, you are using your rebuttal as a nod to Mbti in the effort to create a paradigm (pattern or example) of how intuitives and sensors are greatly different people and how we should stay within our groups and refuse to try understanding the other (despite the fact that we all have a little bit of every quality within us) - then that is a mistaken theory.
> 
> ...


Actually, I'll just sit back and call you a try hard and amuse myself.


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## The Conundrum (Aug 23, 2017)

The obvious and common sense, probably.


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## havingadventures (Jul 16, 2017)

The Immigrant said:


> Actually, I'll just sit back and call you a try hard and amuse myself.


I’m disappointed. I was excited to have an intelligent conversation with you. Seems like you’re stuck in the good ol “make fun of people to feel cool about yourself” phase. Don’t worry, it passes. On a positive note, thanks for thinking I try hard (that’s a compliment in today’s fast paced, competitive, wonderfully challenging world we all live in - in which I’m happy and proud to say, yes, I try hard in) Fantastic! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Dscross said:


> I agree up to a point with what you are saying, as I said, but I don't think it's fair to call the conversations we have 'inane'. They may seem inane to you, but ideas mean A LOT to us. This is another place I was going with this thread. I think the fact that sensors 'can' have heavy conversations about really abstract stuff makes them think they are getting the same thing out of them in 'excitement' terms and for as longer periods. I'm not sure they are.
> 
> The trouble is you have Se hero, and while everything you just say here may come more naturally to you, it doesn't to us. For example,I have Se demon - my 8th function. And Si is my inferior, so bodily awareness is also hard for me. I have to REALLY WORK to be in the present moment. It takes HOURS, MONTHS, YEARS of practice. I am lucky enough to be able to do it a little bit because I've read a lot about it and praticed for years.
> 
> ...


I was calling small talk inane. 

It's not that more abstract/meaningful conversations are boring. A lot of the time, they can be interesting. But they take effort and require greater investment on my part and means being more open. I suspect that because people who aren't living in the now have experience average life as bland, they're more willing to risk opening up and engaging in deeper conversation sooner with people. But a lot of us don't have that need because we are engaging our lives meaningfully. 

You say you observe and ask questions. I push buttons and try to see them in different situations. I suppose it is sort of like asking probing questions. I give reticent people a chance to make a good impression.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

havingadventures said:


> I’m disappointed. I was excited to have an intelligent conversation with you. Seems like you’re stuck in the good ol “make fun of people to feel cool about yourself” phase. Don’t worry, it passes. On a positive note, thanks for thinking I try hard (that’s a compliment in today’s fast paced, competitive, wonderfully challenging world we all live in - in which I’m happy and proud to say, yes, I try hard in) Fantastic!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Anyone with a decent vocabulary could write what you wrote. I didn't find it having anything worth addressing so I didn't. It's boring pseudointellectualism that is a dime a dozen on the internet.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

The Immigrant said:


> Anyone with a decent vocabulary could write what you wrote. I didn't find it having anything worth addressing so I didn't. It's boring pseudointellectualism that is a dime a dozen on the internet.


I love the way they also have the ...slap your hand with a ruler approach in a glossy form. h:

AG you bad boy! Get it together!


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

Politics, ideology, stuff, mood, health, work, family, problems, solutions... mostly we laugh at the expense of each other. Thicc skin is a must. It's fun when somone is offended, it is hilarious when someone starts crying.

This is with my "Sensor" colleagues and co-workers.


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## G.13 (Feb 12, 2018)

The Immigrant said:


> Actually, I'll just sit back and call you a try hard and amuse myself.


Damned INFJ now...


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## Mick Travis (Aug 18, 2016)

pwowq said:


> Politics, ideology, stuff, mood, health, work, family, problems, solutions... mostly we laugh at the expense of each other. Thicc skin is a must. It's fun when somone is offended, it is hilarious when someone starts crying.
> 
> This is with my "Sensor" colleagues and co-workers.


This is why I'm quitting my job in a breakfast kitchen. The boss encourages infantile behavior, so he'll blend in. My best guess is that he's an ESTJ.


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

Roslyn said:


> I suspect that because people who aren't living in the now have experience average life as bland, they're more willing to risk opening up and engaging in deeper conversation sooner with people. But a lot of us don't have that need because we are engaging our lives meaningfully.


I understand what you are saying here, but I would argue that most humans are stuck in their heads, not just initutives. I'd guess that ESFPs have it the easist in terms of making spiritual (present to the moment) breakthroughs (because of Se hero combined with Fi parent) closely followed by the other SP types, but, in my experience of them, SJ types are just as likely as NFs and NTs types to be stuck in their own heads.

I'd also argue that, for anyone with their Si or Se as their child or inferior, it actually feels more revolutionary when we manage to become present so it feel like more of an 'awakening' to them. I've pondered theories about the beginnings of relgions based on this.

I'm not sure you should have worded that bit 'we are engaging in our lives meaningfully', though when you only have your point of view of what meaning is. We are all just making our own meanings out of life, whether spiritual or not. You don't have a monopoly on meaning. But then, who I am to judge your communication after making a thread which clearly annoyed everyone - lol


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

Northern Lights said:


> @
> 
> [MENTION=472297]Dscross: Would it be terrible if the bottomline in all this was that "connecting" and "deep", as descriptions for inter-personal relations, were merely mental constructs of the Fi kind?


I've been thinking about this after someone else said something similar and you could be correct actually. This has actually given me some insight into my Fi parent. Because it's not my hero function I can sometimes forget that my Fi side yerns for that stuff so it's very possible. I'm glad I made this thread just to discover that bit of information

I'd appreciate some more insight on it actually and what it means to make Fi connections. But whether that's my Fi wanting it or not... it doesn't stop me wanting it. It doesn't really give me a road map of how to get more of it.

I mean, you say it's a 'construct' of Fi, that's implying that it's a false feeling. But I have attained the feeling with certain types before (not just romantically) so I know the 'deepness' I seek is not unattainable.


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Dscross said:


> I understand what you are saying here, but I would argue that most humans are stuck in their heads, not just initutives. I'd guess that ESFPs have it the easist in terms of making spiritual (present to the moment) breakthroughs (because of Se hero combined with Fi parent) closely followed by the other SP types, but, in my experience of them, SJ types are just as likely as NFs and NTs types to be stuck in their own heads.
> 
> I'd also argue that, for anyone with their Si or Se as their child or inferior, it actually feels more revolutionary when we manage to become present so it feel like more of an 'awakening' to them. I've pondered theories about the beginnings of relgions based on this.
> 
> I'm not sure you should have worded that bit 'we are engaging in our lives meaningfully', though when you only have your point of view of what meaning is. We are all just making our own meanings out of life, whether spiritual or not. You don't have a monopoly on meaning. But then, who I am to judge your communication after making a thread which clearly annoyed everyone - lol


idk, you might be right. It's this weird thing people add in movies and tv where something life changing happens and suddenly that start doing simple stuff they weren't doing before. A cliche I suppose. Like they get a divorce and go to some very foreign country, do regular stuff that I already I do where I live now, and act like it was enlightening. And for some reason, as the audience I'm supposed to feel like something special happened. It looked like someone had their head up their ass and they spent a lot of money on travel. And travel is great and it's something I want to do. The point is to learn about other people, not do stuff you could be doing at home. 

I don't think of myself as spiritual. It's spirituality, of course, there's nothing to concrete to experience. Belief systems are interesting, but aren't engaging. Nothing has struck me as something that I need more of in my life. There are things I need more of in my life. Like sex. I need a ship that does this: 



 But like, I get the sense that some day, maybe soon or maybe a long time from now, I'm going to die and that will be it. Just like road kill, it's not going to have deeper meaning of value in a great beyond. Our meaning and value is right here and we'll be remembered and valued for what we do right here. I can't be sure, but I think people are scared and the reality might be just a little too harsh for some people. So they have to believe in something more. But I think if they could accept the truth, or at least my truth, it might free them up. They wouldn't worry so much things that don't matter and get on with the business of living. 

Sorry, I didn't mean that other types aren't having meaningful lives. I meant experiencing meaning lives through living in the present. I'm sure they can have meaningful lives in different ways and go about it in different ways.


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

Roslyn said:


> idk, you might be right. It's this weird thing people add in movies and tv where something life changing happens and suddenly that start doing simple stuff they weren't doing before. A cliche I suppose. Like they get a divorce and go to some very foreign country, do regular stuff that I already I do where I live now, and act like it was enlightening. And for some reason, as the audience I'm supposed to feel like something special happened. It looked like someone had their head up their ass and they spent a lot of money on travel. And travel is great and it's something I want to do. The point is to learn about other people, not do stuff you could be doing at home.
> 
> I don't think of myself as spiritual. It's spirituality, of course, there's nothing to concrete to experience. Belief systems are interesting, but aren't engaging. Nothing has struck me as something that I need more of in my life. There are things I need more of in my life. Like sex. I need a ship that does this:
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you here. Just to be clear, I wasn't linking spirituality with anything otherworldly or religious / afterlife-based. I'm an atheist. To me, spirtuality is just an inner journey you take to try and attain peace in your mind - and I think meditation and trying to bring yourself into the present moment is a part of that. And maybe feeling one with the world if you are really good at it. That's all I meant. I know the word has connotations, but there really isn't a more appropriate word for it unfortunately.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Dscross said:


> I don't disagree with you here. Just to be clear, I wasn't linking spirituality with anything otherworldly or religious / afterlife-based. I'm an atheist. To me, spirtuality is just an inner journey you take to try and attain peace in your mind - and I think meditation and trying to bring yourself into the present moment is a part of that. And maybe feeling one with the world if you are really good at it. That's all I meant. I know the word has connotations, but there really isn't a more appropriate word for it unfortunately.


You may be right...these sensors just do not get our depths. Like they have a clue or something. We are the elite for heavens sake.


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## Dscross (Jul 7, 2017)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> You may be right...these sensors just do not get our depths. Like they have a clue or something. We are the elite for heavens sake.


...I'm not sure if this is saracastic but I had whole coversation with Roslyn about this where I said I thought in many ways SP types are often deeper because of how Se allows them to experience the present moment more easily. It wasn't intended as disrespectful. I was just clarifying my position because spirituality is often taken the wrong way by most people.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Dscross said:


> ...I'm not sure if this is saracastic but I had whole coversation with Roslyn about this where I said I thought in many ways SP types are often deeper because of how Se allows them to experience the present moment more easily. It wasn't intended as disrespectful. I was just clarifying my position because spirituality is often taken the wrong way by most people.


No, screw the sensors! You are wasting your time. THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND US!


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> No, screw the sensors! You are wasting your time. THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND US!


Wait.. weren't you typed ESTP before? :laughing:


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> Wait.. weren't you typed ESTP before? :laughing:


Why are you trying to take me back to that dreadful time in my life. You are just a mean bully!


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> Why are you trying to take me back to that dreadful time in my life. You are just a mean bully!


You mean back to two weeks ago? :tongue:

Traitor! :laughing:


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> You mean back to two weeks ago? :tongue:
> 
> Traitor! :laughing:


You are nothing but, a bully. I expect no less than that from a sensor. *sighs* Do not bully me! It was today for your information. Get your facts right Mister.


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> You are nothing but, a bully. I expect no less than that from a sensor. *sighs* Do not bully me! It was today for your information. Get your facts right Mister.


I'm not that active anymore that I watch every day. 

Also, watching your type everyday would be slightly stalker-ish :tongue:


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> I'm not that active anymore that I watch every day.
> 
> Also, watching your type everyday would be slightly stalker-ish :tongue:


*sniffles* It has changed so many times I understand. I like being stalked and stalking. Have you not read about my type?


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> *sniffles* It has changed so many times I understand. I like being stalked and stalking. Have you not read about my type?


I have read about your type.. for about 5 minutes.

But hey, if you want to, I can stalk you (from a save distance) :tongue:


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> I have read about your type.. for about 5 minutes.
> 
> But hey, if you want to, I can stalk you (from a save distance) :tongue:


Just be nice, you sensors have a tendency of being mean and bullying


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> Just be nice, you sensors have a tendency of being mean and bullying


Nahhhh you just tend to look between the lines and see anything as bullying :tongue:

Just kiddin'

You know I wouldn't bully you roud:


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> Nahhhh you just tend to look between the lines and see anything as bullying :tongue:
> 
> Just kiddin'
> 
> You know I wouldn't bully you roud:


What is your type? I may want to marry you and have kids?


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> What is your type? I may want to marry you and have kids?


Still stuck on ISTP, I think it comes the closest to me.

However, I don't want kids and mariage looks like a waste of money to me :tongue:

We can have a party though!


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> Still stuck on ISTP, I think it comes the closest to me.
> 
> However, I don't want kids and mariage looks like a waste of money to me :tongue:
> 
> We can have a party though!


WHAT!!! You are rejecting my eggs! You must be a sensor


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> WHAT!!! You are rejecting my eggs! You must be a sensor


I'm rejecting kids, has nothing to do with your eggs dummy :tongue:


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> I'm rejecting kids, has nothing to do with your eggs dummy :tongue:


Now you call me names because I have eggs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

They talk about cucumbers in tiny holes


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> Now you call me names because I have eggs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I like eggs. I eat them pretty often


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> I like eggs. I eat them pretty often


OMG you eat kids! What kind of animal are you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> OMG you eat kids! What kind of animal are you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think its called a human, not sure though!


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## Northern Lights (Mar 25, 2016)

Dscross said:


> I'd appreciate some more insight on it actually and what it means to make Fi connections. But whether that's my Fi wanting it or not... it doesn't stop me wanting it. It doesn't really give me a road map of how to get more of it.
> 
> I mean, you say it's a 'construct' of Fi, that's implying that it's a false feeling. But I have attained the feeling with certain types before (not just romantically) so I know the 'deepness' I seek is not unattainable.


Not precisely. It's true in the sense that you feel it, by virtue of your personal makeup. The question is just whether it would be true for anyone else (probably) or everyone else (probably not).

Perhaps a contrasting view will be helpful for insight: Closeness, for me, is in shared moments, because that is where life happens. Like @letsrunlikecrazy said, I cannot imagine (quite literally) finding a "deep connection" in talking. Bonding isn't happening through talking, but through action, cf. also @Roslyn. At best, talking is entirely superfluous in fact; a "connection" would be more like working as a perfect team, without the need to talk.

So far my tally there is exactly one. Years since. But I'm not actively seeking a "deep connection" in any particular way, so that might be why. I'm quite fine without it.


All of which is to say: Your "deep connection" in talking will be hit-and-miss, and there's nothing you can really do about it. And truthfully, I doubt it has much to do with Sensors or Intuitives (those are ~50% of all people each, it's statistically unlikely by sheer numbers), and a lot with individual characters that either match or complement yours, or don't.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> No, screw the sensors! You are wasting your time. THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND US!


You're absolutely right. OMG, I'm married to a Sensor and she just does not GET me. It's upsetting on so many levels. I just you know have these really high level thoughts that sometimes don't make much sense to me and I really have no idea how to really get them out to her. 

I just want her to you know, understand without any effort on my part. If only I could relate to her. You know maybe come down to her level ... but I really can't. If I'm the universe, she's just a rock and how can someone that exists in the metaphysical realm between reality and the supernatural ever relate? 

She's also so busy doing things, living life to the fullest. Like the whole world is crafted and geared towards her personality so much that it is like I am oppressed because she has it so easy. She does all these sensory things like eat, and sleep too ... while sometimes I run into walls because I don't even realize they're there. :'(


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

When being "humorous" at work it seems with "sensors" it's more _'in your fucking face'_-personal kind of fun. With "intuitives" its more conceptual fun, mind bending, personal.. which I find dishonest as it's just covert _'in your fucking face'_. 

Yeah, at my workplace we talk shit at each other a lot... openly jokingly happily.

I as a sensor have no issue pinpointing when an intuitive makes smart covert fun out of me. The counter is to throw it back loud and harsh making it open fun of them. Sometimes they're not ready for it, another way of saying "they get offended".

Most are adults and have that *thicc *skin. It's all fun&games... until a NE-dom in fun-mode shows up... The roasts get mental. xD


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

The Immigrant said:


> You're absolutely right. OMG, I'm married to a Sensor and she just does not GET me. It's upsetting on so many levels. I just you know have these really high level thoughts that sometimes don't make much sense to me and I really have no idea how to really get them out to her.
> 
> I just want her to you know, understand without any effort on my part. If only I could relate to her. You know maybe come down to her level ... but I really can't. If I'm the universe, she's just a rock and how can someone that exists in the metaphysical realm between reality and the supernatural ever relate?
> 
> She's also so busy doing things, living life to the fullest. Like the whole world is crafted and geared towards her personality so much that it is like I am oppressed because she has it so easy. She does all these sensory things like eat, and sleep too ... while sometimes I run into walls because I don't even realize they're there. :'(


It sounds like their is abuse going on in your home. I am sorry if she is emotionally and mentally stunted. I understand that all too well! I am glad to see a fellow NJ understands my trials and tribulations as well, dealing with this kind of behavior. 

We should obviously, go to the forums that can supply us with the intellectual needs we have unmet with these types.

Which ones do you suggest? I think I may go to the ENFP sections alas, that is a perceiving type. *whispers I have heard they are slow as well, if you get my meaning* wink* wink* 

P.S. If your wife is beating you, I have a hotline number you can call- 1.888. STP. BEAT oopppss...Just change the STP to STJ. They have one for every S type.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

ENIGMA 4.0 said:


> It sounds like their is abuse going on in your home. I am sorry if she is emotionally and mentally stunted. I understand that all too well! I am glad to see a fellow NFJ understands my trials and tribulations as well, dealing with this kind of behavior.
> 
> We should obviously, go to the forums that can supply us with the intellectual needs we have unmet with these types.
> 
> ...


:hugs::hugs::hugs:

Awww. Thank you so much for the emotional support. You just really GET me. 

I will talk to other people of her type because since I'm so mistreated by one member of that type, they must all be like this and maybe I can gain insight into their type by repeatedly asking them about how to help me :'(


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

The Immigrant said:


> :hugs::hugs::hugs:
> 
> Awww. Thank you so much for the emotional support. You just really GET me.
> 
> I will talk to other people of her type because since I'm so mistreated by one member of that type, they must all be like this and maybe I can gain insight into their type by repeatedly asking them about how to help me :'(


:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:
Uhhh, if you really want to waste your time like that. I mean what could you learn by going there! We all know, they only help themselves. 

Good luck in your endeavors and keep me posted. If I do not hear back from you within 48 hours, I will assume your wife found this thread. I will call the cops to come to your door, I just hope it will not be too late : *(

Be careful, and Godspeed!


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## odinaka808 (Jan 6, 2022)

SilentScream said:


> Sorry, your iNtuitive ramblings don't make sense to the likes of me. I'm a Sensor remember. We're not capable of big think like you lot. I don't care about you appearing condescending. That doesn't bother me. Condescending self-proclaimed iNtuitives on PerC are literally a dime a dozen.
> 
> Why not use your magical intuition to answer your own questions for you? Why do you need the concreteness of experiential wisdom from sensing types to indulge you?


He is just trying to understand you guys point of view.... No need to react


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

My impression is sensors talk about concrete, specific things. I am not a sensor because I'm after general truths. It's like a+a=2a rather than 3+3=6 or 7+7=14.

I like to discuss things with intuitives. Intuitives seem open and branch out anywhere. Then, once open, there is the fun of heading toward closure. 

If I want to take my mind out of the clouds to do something practical, talking to a sensor is the thing. Also people networking? I'd go to a sensor. A sensor is right there and that is their interest. They may not like me as I don't want to be fixed. I feel trapped. On the other hand they may like me if they are stuck with a problem and searching for a solution.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Roslyn said:


> I was calling small talk inane.
> 
> *You say you observe and ask questions. I push buttons and try to see them in different situations.* I suppose it is sort of like asking probing questions. I give reticent people a chance to make a good impression.


I do both 🤭 It applies to your previous post about observing that I agreed with as well...... Usually, my preferred method.

So many fake people.... I will do this except push them all at once if~ I think someone is full of it.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Sybow said:


> Wait.. weren't you typed ESTP before? 😆


What do you think I am?


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Dscross said:


> ...I'm not sure if this is saracastic but I had whole coversation with Roslyn about this where I said I thought in many ways SP types are often deeper because of how Se allows them to experience the present moment more easily. It wasn't intended as disrespectful. I was just clarifying my position because spirituality is often taken the wrong way by most people.











🤭


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> What do you think I am?


That's somehow different from asking, "What do I think of me?" I'm working on it.



ENIGMA2019 said:


> So many fake people....


Are actors and actresses "fake" people?


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

BigApplePi said:


> That's somehow different from asking, "What do I think of me?" I'm working on it.
> 
> 
> Are actors and actresses "fake" people?


It is very different. Pray tell? _grins_ You can do both if~ you like. I am actually~ genuinely - curious about your opinion. 

That is their livelihood to play a part. That is different than what I am referring to. On a screen... acting. Separate imo from the person. _shrugs_ Unless, that is their objective across the board. I am sure some mix where one begins and ends just like~ everyday fake people (not their job).


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> It is very different. Pray tell? _grins_ You can do both if~ you like. I am actually~ genuinely - curious about your opinion.


"On a scale of one to ten, ten being curiosity to die for, how curious are you?" he pondered cynically. My opinion? So far I've narrowed it down to an enigma between Dec 2018 and Jan 2020.



ENIGMA2019 said:


> That is their [actors] livelihood to play a part.


I've read sometimes it is more than only earning a living. Some actors love to play a role because they don't have much of an ego they can call their own. It's compensation. Sad or just the way it is?


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## MsMojiMoe (Apr 7, 2021)

They talk about what their doing/projects, building, making, relationships/practical stuff. where their going or coming from and like the rest of us (N) they talk about their ills/complains

lol, I have no idea but that’s my guess


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

BigApplePi said:


> "On a scale of one to ten, ten being curiosity to die for, how curious are you?" he pondered cynically. My opinion? So far I've narrowed it down to an enigma between Dec 2018 and Jan 2020.


 17.2536985252233114522145214 -ponders- Why that time frame? Give me a prior and now current?


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