# Philosophical discussion about love for NF's



## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

Alright, we're all intuitives here and feelers - so we all enjoy discussions such as this. I have recently run into a philosophical thought process recently over expectations about love, which I think would be interesting to see amongst those of a similar personality type that think in the same way.

So, here's the scenario... last night I was watching "The Notebook" on the Oxygen channel wondering and how a guy, Nicholas Sparks, can write and come up with such amazing stories. I thought of all the other books I've read of his and their movies and began thinking to myself "These books and movies just give me unrealistic expectations about love... but yet - why does it have to be unrealistic?"

Clearly in the books and movies the couple always deals with struggles. In the Notebook, Noah and Allie break up when younger because her parents think he is "trash". They later run into each other while Allie is engaged to another man so they have to deal with that struggle. In Nights in Rodanthe, Adrienne is going through a divorce and Paul is trying to cope with the guilt and frustrations of a patient of his dying while in surgery and the patient's family is suing him. Then later they can't be together because of their kids. In The Rescue, Taylor is unable to fully open his heart to Denise because he is dealing with the guilt of causing his father's death. Etc. etc.

None of the relationships are perfect. Yet, it seems that the struggles they do deal with can be so intense and drastic and if it happened in real life it would be likely that the couple would break up. I guess there are some that don't... but it seems to be so few. You hardly ever see any marriages or loves in general that seem to last to that extent as it is written. In fact, with myself and with friends I have seen that a lot of times when in a conflict/argument with a guy it seems the guy gets shook up and starts really questioning the relationship. To me, that little petty conflict is minor compared to the ones written in these books and they're already doubting!

So... why is it unrealistic?? Have people just settled into having their relationships be only a fragment of what it could be? Do we simply forget how love is a base and we need to maintain loving characteristics? Or - is it just unrealistic to seek?


If someone could shed some light on my thought process that'd be great!! I need some sort of validation to know if I'm on to something or if I'm just way out in left field.


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## Mind Marauder (Nov 12, 2009)

Two words: Emotional immaturity. I think that most people don't have that to the degree that feelers have because we've had to deal with it every day of our lives. People who have never had to deal with their emotions on a constant, day-to-day level, when faced with sudden emotional problems, don't know how to handle them and fall apart. I think that, while we are more sensitive, we also can handle our emotions more... gracefully. Also we strive for harmonious relationship, and we seek to minimize conflict which isn't always a bad thing. Whereas most people would let the conflict rage to the proportions of a firestorm, NF's usually try to quell the flames early on. Or at least that's what I try to do.


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## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

Mind Marauder said:


> Two words: Emotional immaturity. I think that most people don't have that to the degree that feelers have because we've had to deal with it every day of our lives. People who have never had to deal with their emotions on a constant, day-to-day level, when faced with sudden emotional problems, don't know how to handle them and fall apart. I think that, while we are more sensitive, we also can handle our emotions more... gracefully. Also we strive for harmonious relationship, and we seek to minimize conflict which isn't always a bad thing. Whereas most people would let the conflict rage to the proportions of a firestorm, NF's usually try to quell the flames early on. Or at least that's what I try to do.


Good point - it makes sense. I never thought of that.


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## angularvelocity (Jun 15, 2009)

I think a lot of relationships are formed based on very superficial criteria. I believe it leads to choosing wrong people for wrong reasons... and that stems from what MindM said.. emotional immaturity.

I don't think it is unrealistic to search for the love you speak of, you just have to search very hard, and most importantly... be patient.


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## Phoenix400 (Sep 19, 2009)

Well, the novelists have to romanticize a bit. I'm sure relationships like in the stories exist somewhere, but they're few enough and far between that people consider them unrealistic. Its part of what makes people buy the books.

My thoughts are that it can't be narrowed to just one reason. What I see are a bunch of little things coming together.

1.) Emotional Maturity - mentioned before. Good post. 

2.) "Love" has been devalued - We're bombarded with it from all sides these days. Sex sells. People say "I love you" after having only known each other a week. That's still in the lust phase. The word "love" doesn't have the same strength it used to.

3.) Fewer hardships - I've been saying for a while now, the age of personal responsibility has come to an end. People milk the welfare system, people get sued over the smallest things (coffee anyone?), everything can be blamed on somebody else and the behavior is encouraged these days. We've haven't been raising people to fight for something better. It makes people see all their partner's faults without acknowledging their own...or how they might be aggravating the situation.

4.) Communication - Three things that end a marriage: infidelity, financial hardship, and lack of communication. Its hard to resolve an issue when people aren't willing to sit down, discuss, and try to find solutions. 

5.) Love solves everything - Negative Ghostrider. Relationships are hard work. You ARE going to fight. You ARE going to have problems. People think "I'm in love" before looking at whether or not they're truly compatible or have the qualities that can make each other happy. They don't even think about whether the other person's quirks or faults are something they can live with. They jump in because "love will see them through" without looking at the bigger picture.

My parents are actually my grandparents. They adopted me when I was 10 days old and raised 3 kids before me. They were married 51 years when my dad passed this year. They grew up in tough times and had to stick together through thick and thin to survive. I was the 1st kid to get clothes that weren't homemade. He worked lots of overtime and odd shifts at the job he retired from. She sometimes worked as the school nurse, or made and sold homemade jewelry. They moved to Cleveland for a few years right out of highschool, because back then you didn't go to college, you moved up north to get real work experience and get off the farm. 

If they hadn't stuck it out they wouldn't have made it. They bickered like crazy, but never abused one another(they took that out on us kids). Definitely not perfect, but they loved each other dearly and made it work. My mom was scared after he passed because she said she'd never gone to bed without him there...in 51 years. And I can't remember a single night in the 20 years I grew up in that house that he wasn't there.

Love means something. Marriage means something. The greatest generation has passed. For as many advances and as much equality as we've gained over the years, we've lost something important.


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## Blue Butterfly (Sep 19, 2009)

I certainly hope that kind of love exist. Otherwise I will be alone for the rest of my life. That is the kind of love that I hold out for and will never accept another kind of love.


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## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

Phoenix400 said:


> Well, the novelists have to romanticize a bit. I'm sure relationships like in the stories exist somewhere, but they're few enough and far between that people consider them unrealistic. Its part of what makes people buy the books.
> 
> My thoughts are that it can't be narrowed to just one reason. What I see are a bunch of little things coming together.
> 
> ...


Agreed. There are certainly a lot of things in this generation that are lacking from past generations.


By the way, thanks so much guys for your input!! :blushed: I've been contemplating this but then seemed to run into a "block" and the only friend of mine that really gave me any feedback on my thoughts was an ESFJ - and, though I know she meant well, S types are just so concrete they miss the point I'm trying to make and don't see where my thoughts are going.


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## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

Hurting said:


> I certainly hope that kind of love exist. Otherwise I will be alone for the rest of my life. That is the kind of love that I hold out for and will never accept another kind of love.


Yeah - I'm right there with you.:blushed: Guess we can only dream for now.


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## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

Oh.. and here's some more food for thought.....

I'm not positive if any of you have seen this or experienced this but.... isn't it ironic that people are scared of getting divorced so then they "put up walls" but then in doing so, they don't communicate as effectively as they should and just end up damaging their own relationships... when really if they weren't so scared to begin with they would be better off??


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## Blue Butterfly (Sep 19, 2009)

thegirlcandance said:


> Oh.. and here's some more food for thought.....
> 
> I'm not positive if any of you have seen this or experienced this but.... isn't it ironic that people are scared of getting divorced so then they "put up walls" but then in doing so, they don't communicate as effectively as they should and just end up damaging their own relationships... when really if they weren't so scared to begin with they would be better off??


 
I put up those walls even in the getting to know a person even before I date them. I am terrified of the thought of getting involved with someone that could be abusive in the least little bit. I had rather be alone than be with an abuser.


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## Phoenix400 (Sep 19, 2009)

thegirlcandance said:


> Oh.. and here's some more food for thought.....
> 
> I'm not positive if any of you have seen this or experienced this but.... isn't it ironic that people are scared of getting divorced so then they "put up walls" but then in doing so, they don't communicate as effectively as they should and just end up damaging their own relationships... when really if they weren't so scared to begin with they would be better off??


That's a good indication of insecurities that a person needs to address within themselves. Both sides bring their own problems into a relationship. If you've got problems that are going to screw up a relationship, best try to work on those BEFORE getting in too deep.

OR

Self-fulfilling prophesy. They got more than they bargained for, want a divorce, but are scared to initiate. They put up the walls to alienate their partner and hope they'll get fed up and the divorce can be that person's fault.



Hurting said:


> I put up those walls even in the getting to know a person even before I date them. I am terrified of the thought of getting involved with someone that could be abusive in the least little bit. I had rather be alone than be with an abuser.


That's just being cautious, unless you're taking it to some kind of extreme. It takes time to get to know someone and see if you can trust each other. It'd be crazy to share everything about yourself right off the bat. Courtesy should always be given, Trust and Respect have to be earned.

Though I am willing to give someone the benefit of the doubt on the trust aspect...up to a point. Screw me over and its on you.


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## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

Phoenix400 said:


> That's a good indication of insecurities that a person needs to address within themselves. Both sides bring their own problems into a relationship. If you've got problems that are going to screw up a relationship, best try to work on those BEFORE getting in too deep.
> 
> OR
> 
> ...


Yeah - I've thought that the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy has a lot to do with it... a person has to believe in themselves in order to succeed, and if not, they will fail. However, I will admit that what others expect of a person influences there success as well (from an educational standpoint referred to as teacher expectancy theory). If someone keeps telling you that you're ugly, for example, you have to have a pretty strong self-worth in order to not be effected by that.

Ha, okay I'm already steering this off-topic, so back to the main discussion about expectations about love. lol


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

I guess most people in the developed Western world, are empowered enough to be of the belief, that if they are not happy in a situation, they can always move on and do something else. 

It's reflected in employment statistics. Most people will have several careers, because if we find out the job's not what we are looking for, we can just get some new skills and work somewhere else. Even for the pure fact that we dont like an employer, is reason enough for change.

I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.. 

But loyalty, commitment and real love (not that I profess to be the dictator of what that is) have all taken the backseat to different values in modern relationships. People definately have to look after themselves, but it is also our responsibiity to surround ourselves with people who value the same things in a relationship. 

I think mainstream media is getting better at portraying real people and real relationships, warts and all. Maybe the intense relationships in movies are unrealistic. But I would say, it's more the situations that are idealistic. The 'lovers' in a lot of this kind of romantic fiction are overrepresented by people who value love over everything. And so they are prepared to do anything. Maybe we wont find ourselves in a situation of forbidden love, like Romeo and Juliet, but we may find our Romeo. The relationship just wont be in the same dramatic context as a war between two families.
Now Romeo here, is not some perfect man prepared to drop everything at your feet. Romeo is a flawed individual just as us, who may or may not be similar to us in terms of dreams and desires. He just values love. Shakespear gave Romeo the penultimate opportunities to show his love. Maybe everyday relationships dont go through that. But there things always testing the strength of a relationship. I think it's ridiculous the things some people turn into 'tests' though. Whatever, they can live whatever life they want to lead. 

Romantic fiction usually thus portrays the idea that conflict and hardship breed stronger relationships. I dont believe there to be untruth in that (depending on the situation). People sometimes give up too easily when they love for the sake of gain.


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## Phoenix400 (Sep 19, 2009)

thegirlcandance said:


> Yeah - I've thought that the Self-Fulfilling Prophecy has a lot to do with it... a person has to believe in themselves in order to succeed, and if not, they will fail. However, I will admit that what others expect of a person influences there success as well (from an educational standpoint referred to as teacher expectancy theory). If someone keeps telling you that you're ugly, for example, you have to have a pretty strong self-worth in order to not be effected by that.
> 
> Ha, okay I'm already steering this off-topic, so back to the main discussion about expectations about love. lol


Well, I've seen a few abusive relationships in my time. A lot of people have low self-esteem from people beating them down. Its important to recognize that fact. I suffer from it myself.

It goes back to compatibility. I'm going to use myself as an example here. I have low self-esteem. I'm a lot better than I used to be, but I'm not going to find a woman who constantly bags on me, who will cause me to regress. I look for a woman who's supportive. Someone who's open-minded and will tell me when I've screwed up, but won't attack me for it and will admit if I've pointed out that they did something to aggravate the situation.

At the same time, I have to be careful about letting my self-esteem and some depression get the better of me. If there's no real reason behind it, I don't want to drag my partner down with it. I can also be a bit calloused and cold sometimes. I want a partner I can trust to tell me when I'm doing that instead of just taking it. I usually don't realize I'm doing it, but if I get called out on it I'll review my actions, figure out why I'm doing it, and do my damnedest to make sure I don't let that get the best of me again.

I'm not completely healthy (from a developmental standpoint), but I'm not a basket case either. I'm fine with someone who needs help themselves, but they've got to be willing to work on it, the same as I need to work on myself. 

Its also important to realize its not just what you say, but how you say it. You can get the same point across to someone without being confrontational. That's something I see a lot of people having a problem with these days. Can't count the number of fights I've seen, just because of the wrong wording.

Self-awareness is a big thing. Knowing your faults, what will help them or make them worse. Knowing your strengths and how you can use them to help yourself and others. A relationship should be about mutual support and lifting each other up to something better. In my mind anyway. A lot of people are afraid of admitting their faults, or don't want to look deeply enough at themselves to even recognize they have them.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

^ excellent post


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I have a lot of fears about relationships. I'm afraid I will commit to someone only to find that he is not able to provide emotional security or is unwilling to do so. Worse, I am afraid of being with someone who will decrease what little contentment I have, who will hurt me without taking responsibility for how he affects me. I am afraid of committing to someone for whom I feel neutrality instead of the usual fear, only to find my soulmate who deeply fulfills me, and that I would have to reject what is secretly my greatest selfish desire in order to remain true to my values. I don't want to be dissatisfied, nor do I want to be dissatisfying to someone else.


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## Ungweliante (Feb 26, 2009)

Hurting said:


> I certainly hope that kind of love exist. Otherwise I will be alone for the rest of my life. That is the kind of love that I hold out for and will never accept another kind of love.


Octopus will love you. Submit.


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## Phoenix400 (Sep 19, 2009)

snail said:


> I have a lot of fears about relationships. I'm afraid I will commit to someone only to find that he is not able to provide emotional security or is unwilling to do so. Worse, I am afraid of being with someone who will decrease what little contentment I have, who will hurt me without taking responsibility for how he affects me. I am afraid of committing to someone for whom I feel neutrality instead of the usual fear, only to find my soulmate who deeply fulfills me, and that I would have to reject what is secretly my greatest selfish desire in order to remain true to my values.


One thing I've been trying to do is evaluating not just what I'm looking for in a relationship, but also the positive and negative aspects of those traits. Do they act goofy because they love life or are they doing it because they are immature? Do they have anger management issues or are they just passionate? Are the actions they take driven by concern or control issues? People can do the exact same things for completely different reasons. Paying attention and figuring out the motivations behind their actions can give you a better idea of exactly what you're dealing with.

Make a chart. pro's and con's.

Trait: Open-minded
Pros: Willing to listen. Able to see other perspectives. Understanding
Cons: May make excuses for inappropriate actions. May not stand up for what THEY believe.


It always comes back to balance. Being cautious enough to look for warning signs, but not so fearful that you let past experiences define new relations. 



> I don't want to be dissatisfied, nor do I want to be dissatisfying to someone else.


May a suggest a new way of thinking on that? 

I want to be happy. I want to make the person I care for happy. What makes me happy? What makes them happy? Can we provide those things for each other? 
The power of positive thinking...coming from this cynical optimist:wink:


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## Moon Pix (Sep 19, 2009)

I think that generally in western society we get most things just the way we want them. The problem is that they tend to relatively trivial and superficial things. Smoking or Non-smoking? Cappucino or latte? Big Mac with fries or onion rings? Some people get used to this and when they are dealing with something far more important they believe they should have the same level of control over it and freak out when they don't get their own way for once. Its the Happy Meal syndrome.

On top of this, I think that people bring far too much personal expectation with them going into relationships. Most people are pretty damaged by the time they reach college or work. Even the suppossed popular kids who apparently have everything are acquiring a certain way of looking at the world which may be unrealistic. They bring this expectation of how things will be into a relationship and then and only then does their own way of looking at the world actually come into contact with reality. It fails but they arent big enough to admit that they had it wrong all along and so they repeat the same thing over and over.

In summing up Id agree aqnd say that most of it is due to emotional immaturity that comes about by because of choices that allow us to control our enviroment to a certain degree. When you're used to control, albeit superficial control, what happens when you get into a situation where you can't really control whats going on?


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## Akrasiel (Oct 25, 2009)

Because most relationships begin with looks and /can/ develop into more, they either lack base substance or have too much of the wrong kind.


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## Zally (Nov 29, 2009)

Thank you for this very interesting thread.

We have very high divorce rates in Finland. I guess it was something like 50% of marriages end up in divorce. I think it's quite the same in the US and other western cultures. I know, getting divorce is much more acceptable now than it was a few decades ago and sometimes it's just the best thing to do for everyone involved. But how is it possible that two people who have been dating for several years and have probably been living together almost the same time finally decide to get married and then file the divorce papers just after a few months of marital life? Was it that they thought getting married would solve their relationship problems itself so they didn't have to talk about it? Or were their expectations about marriage very different and both of them just assumed the other one is thinking the same way? Did they think marriage would change everything?


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

thegirlcandance said:


> Alright, we're all intuitives here and feelers - so we all enjoy discussions such as this. I have recently run into a philosophical thought process recently over expectations about love, which I think would be interesting to see amongst those of a similar personality type that think in the same way.
> 
> So, here's the scenario... last night I was watching "The Notebook" on the Oxygen channel wondering and how a guy, Nicholas Sparks, can write and come up with such amazing stories. I thought of all the other books I've read of his and their movies and began thinking to myself "These books and movies just give me unrealistic expectations about love... but yet - why does it have to be unrealistic?"
> 
> ...


I like you. It's a mysterious question you pose. It is often disregarded and made into non sense....I believe mostly because no ones wants to know if the answer is negative. But that's not the point....

I DO think it is because people have settled into a fragment of what things could be. Yes yes it is idealistic......people.......idealism is not bad. 

With an ideal in our mind...we can make the world around us a better place. If the ideal does not exist in our world right now....THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN'T EXIST....I mean at least it doesn't mean we can't make the world a better place than it is. Why loose hope? Yes I think relationships can be a lot better than what they are today. 

By the way, WHAT relationships? Divorce rate is going up and people are now relying on friends with benefits more and more according to researches. Why? Because we think that is reality. So many people get stuck into what is that they don't realize the possibility of something better. 

That being said....is there a such thing a perfect? God no. No I don't think there is an amazing perfect world in the objective reality. But we know what it looks like subjectively as NFs ...and I'm sure other types do too....we must use this vision...this insight...this ideal....and utilize it to the best of our ability in the REAL world around us. 

Stay true to your vision. Don't be let down when you find out that the world around you doesn't match the potential you see in your mind. But do the best you can to bring your inner world out into reality.....it needs it.


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## Alchemical Romance (Nov 26, 2009)

The best position I can hold on this I found in a book. Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley. For those of you that do not know
the book I'll describe it for you.

The plot takes place in 25th century London. It is a world where industrialization has taken it's toll on population. Children are
bred into factories. Mother and Father are called obscene words, and love is no longer permitted because it is a society built
around egotistical pleasure. One of the mottos of the new world is "work, earn, buy" therefore a very consumenristic society
that looks very much like our own.

In antithesis to the "new world" there is a "savage" reservation of people that don't accept the new order. John the savage is one of them and he's the typical NF talking about love and ideals of freedom. The book is nice because we see how "the new world" is in antithesis with the world of John the savage.

John travells to the New World because he impresses the new world citizens with his knowledge of old literature and stories but he is laughed at and considered a savager for believing in love, that is considered to be bad. Lenina, a very hot girl wants to be "cool" and have sex with the "savager" so she can brag to her friends, however John refuses because it is not love.

The idea of the book is that society seems to progress only technologically and regress emotionally. Those that are different are considered by the new order as savagers. But the point is that they exist, they will always be there fighting for their ideal, no matter how the world changes, like a kind of NF SWAT brigade, always challenging, always loving....and that reality
is real only as much as you believe it's real.

If you think love does not exist, then it doesn't and you will consider everybody who thinks different irealistic, but also if you believe, it's also real and we can find people that agree. We make reality and no one else.

For my part, I WILL ALWAYS BE PROUD FOR BEING A "SAVAGER":tongue:


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## Mandarin (Nov 22, 2009)

Alchemical Romance said:


> The best position I can hold on this I found in a book. Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley. For those of you that do not know
> the book I'll describe it for you.
> 
> The plot takes place in 25th century London. It is a world where industrialization has taken it's toll on population. Children are
> ...


This was one of the choices to read in school, but I didn't chose it...now I want to go back and read it. Thanks for the description!
It is a little disheartening when society seems to devalue that intangible idealistic nature that comes so naturally to me. In situations like job searching, it's downright frustrating and depressing. For the most part though, I try to remain optimistic. As with anything, you get what you put in. Sticking to my "savage" ideals has even had a positive impact on those around me. 
As for idealistic love...other people have posted comments that said what I think, only much more eloquently.


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## angularvelocity (Jun 15, 2009)

Does anyone think the population size makes a difference?

I was thinking about a biography I was reading. In Vienna in 1790 the population size of the city was about 200,000. And Vienna was the piano capitol of the world so that is considered large for the time. Right now, the population size of the city is 1,700,000, nearly 9 times the people. Would it be a fair to assume that the possibly of meeting someone back then was harder, therefore when found, the person was treasured more? But now that the population is greater, the odds of encountering someone is significantly higher therefore we may meet someone better more frequently? 

I also think that the stimuli we need today to keep ourselves entertained is much greater(by far) than what was needed back then. Because we also need new stimuli we consistently look for it. A new partner might satisfy that desire, whereas previously it was not an urge. Random thoughts.. and no way am I saying that is an excuse for divorces.. I'm an advocate of working in relationships.


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## Alchemical Romance (Nov 26, 2009)

avalanche183 said:


> Does anyone think the population size makes a difference?
> 
> I was thinking about a biography I was reading. In Vienna in 1790 the population size of the city was about 200,000. And Vienna was the piano capitol of the world so that is considered large for the time. Right now, the population size of the city is 1,700,000, nearly 9 times the people. Would it be a fair to assume that the possibly of meeting someone back then was harder, therefore when found, the person was treasured more? But now that the population is greater, the odds of encountering someone is significantly higher therefore we may meet someone better more frequently?
> 
> I also think that the stimuli we need today to keep ourselves entertained is much greater(by far) than what was needed back then. Because we also need new stimuli we consistently look for it. A new partner might satisfy that desire, whereas previously it was not an urge. Random thoughts.. and no way am I saying that is an excuse for divorces.. I'm an advocate of working in relationships.


There is a flaw to that argument...assuming relationships worked better then. Just because there were lower divorce rates doesn't mean people were happier. But yes we might assume that people have become too busy to care in our days, however i cannot bring forward numbers to support that


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## Blue Heart (Aug 15, 2009)

snail said:


> I am afraid of committing to someone for whom I feel neutrality instead of the usual fear, only to find my soulmate who deeply fulfills me, and that I would have to reject what is secretly my greatest selfish desire in order to remain true to my values.


And that is a very real possibility. But does finding your soul mate mean giving up either relationship? A soul mate doesn't have to be a bed mate. Is it possible to have a soul mate friendship, and still have a solid marriage with your spouse? Isn't it an unrealistic expectation to expect both in the same person? I mean, it would be nice, really nice, but with the small percentage of people who are even interested in being a soul mate (which according to the Myres-Briggs book is only NF's) , coupled with the inability or unwillingness of some people to handle a life time commitment, can you expect to find a soul mate/marriage partner? Just questions....


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## Everyday Ghoul (Aug 4, 2009)

It seems to me, that most love stories are written about people who have an NF like idealism about love. Then again, in general, whenever I've spoken to people about love, most of them do have an NF sort of idealism in their beliefs in it, so what exactly makes it not happen? Idealism is a great and wonderful thing, but it is attainable between two people who don't share the same expectations in a mate, the same ideals about love? I recently moved and haven't hooked my old computer up yet, but I had downloaded an E-book titled something like Love Stories, I can't recall the exact title now, but the book is about how we all have an individual love story that we're out to fulfill, and relationships succeed when we finally find someone living out the same or a very similar story. The theory is, that accounts for why you may see two people that seem to make the perfect couple, yet they end up divorced. Then, you might encounter two people, constantly at each others throats, who don't seem happy, at all, yet stay together forever. I really, really wanted to read that book! >.< I actually recognize, to some degree, that I do sort of go out and look to fulfill this sort of fantasy like love story. When I meet a girl, I instantly begin, almost subconsciously, seeking out traits in them that embody the symbolism of my soul mate. I've actually mentioned it to each and every girl I've ever fallen for, by calling them my "dark angel". :blushed: lol 

Within my own life, one problem seems to be that none of them were seeking the way I envision myself as a soul mate to someone. Another seems to be the qualities I'm seeking in a soul mate. My love story is sort of a dark fantasy. I have this great need and compulsion to help others, which is why I'd like to ultimately be a psychologist, but anyway, my embodiment of a soul mate is a sort of "broken" person that I can save. This has actually landed me in a lot of relationships with women who were excessively broken people, who literally needed an excessive amount of therapy to be "saved". lol I've dated pathological liars, kleptomaniacs, cutters, junkies, chronically depressed women, all of which had failed attempted suicide, at least once their lives. I may need to change my love story up a bit, and the qualities I seek out in a soul mate. :frustrating:


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## Moon Pix (Sep 19, 2009)

Big bad wolf said:


> have this great need and compulsion to help others, which is why I'd like to ultimately be a psychologist, but anyway, my embodiment of a soul mate is a sort of "broken" person that I can save. This has actually landed me in a lot of relationships with women who were excessively broken people, who literally needed an excessive amount of therapy to be "saved". lol I've dated pathological liars, kleptomaniacs, cutters, junkies, chronically depressed women, all of which had failed attempted suicide, at least once their lives. I may need to change my love story up a bit, and the qualities I seek out in a soul mate. :frustrating:


I don't want to come across as being judgemental (I don't know you so I can't judge you and have no right to) but the fact that you are looking for somebody to do a redemption job on really doesnt sound healthy at all.

Its sounds like you view the other person as simply a project to be worked on, a commodity to provide you with a sense of fulfillment that you are lacking in the rest of your life. It would probably be best for everyone including yourself if you pursue your desired goal and become some kind of counsellor or psychiatrist. In a role like that you sound like you could do a lot of good for humanity.

I genuinely think that the reason most relationships fail is because people are often not able to let go of the various forms of damage that they have accumulated over the course of their lives. This damage isnt just what you might call 'negative' damage (lack of trust, neediness etc) but also 'positive damage' (excessive idealism, relating too deeply to the partner etc.). 'Positive' damage can quite often come across as simply being romantic and could actually be considered desirable but I believe that in the long run it can be just as harmful to a relationship as the more obvious relationship issues such as not trusting your partner because you caught your last one fucking your best friend.

'Positive' damage often stems from selfishness. The phrase "Without you I'm nothing" says it all. If you read that at put the emphasis on the word "you" it comes across as a romantic sentiment. If you read that and put the emphasis on the "I'm" it comes across as being completely selfish and a statement of complete dependecy and a pretty pathetic thing to say. Personally I view as the latter.


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## Everyday Ghoul (Aug 4, 2009)

Moon Pix said:


> I don't want to come across as being judgemental (I don't know you so I can't judge you and have no right to) but the fact that you are looking for somebody to do a redemption job on really doesnt sound healthy at all.
> 
> Its sounds like you view the other person as simply a project to be worked on, a commodity to provide you with a sense of fulfillment that you are lacking in the rest of your life. It would probably be best for everyone including yourself if you pursue your desired goal and become some kind of counsellor or psychiatrist. In a role like that you sound like you could do a lot of good for humanity.
> 
> ...and the rest.


Ouch. lol It's not that I don't need to hear it, I certainly do, it's just that seeing the truth put so...thoroughly, kind of hurts. lol However, I don't think I can argue anything you said, even if I wanted to. Positive damage, negative damage, I do have it all. I am looking for a therapist for myself, but I'm worried I'll go into it too consumed with my own biased knowledge of what I think is wrong with me, and won't want to accept their opinion if their diagnosis differs from mine. I've read countless stuff on psychological disorders and the DSM itself. Hooray for the power of the internet! lol However, the truth may also be a good explanation as to why I can't find a functioning, healthy relationship.


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## MilkyWay132 (Jul 15, 2010)

thegirlcandance said:


> Alright, we're all intuitives here and feelers - so we all enjoy discussions such as this. I have recently run into a philosophical thought process recently over expectations about love, which I think would be interesting to see amongst those of a similar personality type that think in the same way.
> 
> So, here's the scenario... last night I was watching "The Notebook" on the Oxygen channel wondering and how a guy, Nicholas Sparks, can write and come up with such amazing stories. I thought of all the other books I've read of his and their movies and began thinking to myself "These books and movies just give me unrealistic expectations about love... but yet - why does it have to be unrealistic?"
> 
> ...


Now that I think about it, that makes sense. I think people only say it's unrealistic because most people in real life aren't willing to deal with hardships like the characters in books and movies. If people stopped saying that was unrealistic, they could tap into a relationship's potential and make it work out more often.


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