# Difference or correlation between enneagram and mbti?! Help!



## Xyra (Dec 19, 2013)

hornet said:


> I agree with this.
> Unless you try it out in real life and really see it evolve for yourself you have learned nothing...
> 
> I think Se/Ni types have this attitude more than Ne/Si types since they are concerned with a different level.
> ...


Hahaha, that the truth!

So as a INTJ type 8, you are like a revolutionary! Have you create all sorts of ideas and strategies to counter the status quo?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Xyra said:


> Agreed.
> 
> That is where I thought it was confusing at first, mashing all of the systems together. Then nothing made sense.
> 
> ...


Can't say strategy is a big part of how I think unless I engage a problem of sorts that needs to be solved. I like to argue and that's where most of my lust goes. It's channeled through typical NT activities arguing theory etc.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

lumostartarus said:


> I'm an INFP 8w9, which makes it extremely hard for me to relate to anything associated with INFP, the relation is in fact nonexistent nowadays. The story is I used to be a stereotypical INFP then grew out of it, thought I have turned into some other type but can not relate to any other type either, so now I'm "Unknown Personality". I read somewhere that you can and will change yourself to adapt to life, but at the end of the day you will eventually return to the type you are "born with", guess that's my case.


INFP 8's are really rare. INFP 9's are relatively very common. 

At its core, an 8 is extroverted. It wants to attack outwards, to consume, to use anger to hide from weak emotions. Anger is a great emotion, powerful, strong, and other emotions get turned to anger in the heat of the moment.

At its core, an INFP is one of the most introverted MBTi types. An INFP is usually the MOST in touch with its feelings. INFP often wants peace, and pushes down its anger and denies its existence. INFP often FEELS other people's emotions, and is comfortable crying as it is a very importation show of emotion.

An 8's core fear is being vulnerable. INFP is usually comfortable being vulnerable to someone they trust.

Statistically there is a huge correlation between enneagram and MBTi. There is anecdotal evidence of examples of every enneagram and MBTi combination however.

ENTJ 8 - very common.
INFP 9 - very common


INFP 8 REALLY REALLY rare.
ENTJ 2 - not very common

etc.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

All mbti/enenagram combinations are possible, but some combinations are a lot more likely than others.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

MBTI and the Enneagram are two completely separate ways of typing people. MBTI is essentially how one perceives and processes information, and in what order, while the Enneagram is what drives or motivates a person.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

He's a Superhero! said:


> MBTI and the Enneagram are two completely separate ways of typing people. MBTI is essentially how one perceives and processes information, and in what order, while the Enneagram is what drives or motivates a person.



Yes, but...... Te and Fe are extroverted action attributes. if you LEAD with one of those in MBTi, you are more likely to be more of an extroverted function in enneagram. 

if you LEAD with Ti or Fi, you are more likely to be an introverted enneagram type. 

Again, significance is demonstrated statistically, but in sample sizes of one nothing if provable!!!!!


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

drmiller100 said:


> Yes, but...... Te and Fe are extroverted action attributes. if you LEAD with one of those in MBTi, you are more likely to be more of an extroverted function in enneagram.
> 
> if you LEAD with Ti or Fi, you are more likely to be an introverted enneagram type.
> 
> Again, significance is demonstrated statistically, but in sample sizes of one nothing if provable!!!!!


Yet all combinations are demonstrated. Some combinations may be more likely, but they can all exist.


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## Zamyatin (Jun 10, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> All mbti/enenagram combinations are possible, but some combinations are a lot more likely than others.


And for certain pairings of MBTI/Enneagram, mistypes are almost certain because one will interfere with the other's stereotypical behavior in a such a way the real type may not be recognizable.

I'd fucking love to meet a type 8 INFJ someday, but even assuming one of those exists somewhere, they're almost certainly mistyped, because literally nothing about type 8 matches what people expect from INFJs.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Zamyatin said:


> I'd fucking love to meet a type 8 INFJ someday, but even assuming one of those exists somewhere, they're almost certainly mistyped, because literally nothing about type 8 matches what people expect from INFJs.



I agree with you. 

Yet INFJ 2's are uber common, and an unhealthy 2 devolves to 8.........


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## lumostartarus (Apr 1, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> INFP 8's are really rare. INFP 9's are relatively very common.
> 
> At its core, an 8 is extroverted. It wants to attack outwards, to consume, to use anger to hide from weak emotions. Anger is a great emotion, powerful, strong, and other emotions get turned to anger in the heat of the moment.
> 
> ...


If I'm not an INFP anymore then I must have no type at all because I can not relate to any of the 16 types right now. I still am sure of the functions though: Te, Fi, Ne, Si in whatever order, follow by Se -> Ti -> Ni -> Fe.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

So, the original question from @_MaggieMay_ was, is there a correlation between MBTI and enneagram types?

The answer to that is probably yes, there is a correlation. There are materials, mostly unscientific, that show trends between certain MBTI types and enneatypes (including one more official study from Enneagram Monthly in 1996 - here and here). There are also charts from PerC and other fora surveys that show frequencies of each enneatype-MBTI combination with clear patterns. 

I don't think, however, these results should be taken very seriously. The reason for that goes back to knowing how people tend to type themselves, in both MBTI and enneagram, which typically involves either reading a bunch of vague online type descriptions and finding a "best fit type," or worse, simply taking an online test and parroting the result. The forum correlation chart is almost completely bogus, because both the chart _and _what you _now_ see under a person's username are snapshots of what people believed they were at a specific point in time, and for many people (including myself!) has changed several times since the survey was taken. Though obviously I can't objectify this hunch, I know there are also people here who remain completely mistyped (MBTI, enneatype, or both), either because they are still developing their knowledge of the theory, or because they are stubborn to one type they misunderstand and/or idealize. In short, the data you'd get for a survey is wobbly at best. 

The way I see this is, absolutely, there are correlations, and there are some fixations that appear to fit better within certain MBTI types. That could be because more INFJ, for example, are types 4 and 9, and the INFJ type descriptions are skewed more towards having 4-ish or 9-ish traits, or the reverse for 4 descriptions and 9 descriptions sounding INFJ-ish. Some descriptions, to add, I believe are overblown - ENTJ 8 prime example. I have met 7 ENTJ in real life, and *all *of them have been either type 1 (3 of the 6), type 3 (all with a 2 wing, not 4), or 6 (all 6w5). Where are all the strategic, Donald Trump-esque, stylized dictators? What about all the ESTP type 8's who think they are ENTJ? Or the ESTJ type 8's (I know a handful) who are quite a far stretch from the 8 descriptions and, actually, more picky about details than I am as a type 1? 


This question gets back to a better way of describing types, and segregating what is fixation structure from what is cognitive mechanism. In the meantime, you really have to learn enneagram and MBTI separately, keeping it open any type in one can be any type in the other.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Figure said:


> S
> The way I see this is, absolutely, there are correlations, .


Have you met many 8's? What mbti were they? 

An ENTJ 1 seems like a very strange critter to me. 

ENTJ has a strong desire for order due to the Te and Se functions. They want things the way they want them, they will learn to control themselves, but they will impose order upon the world around them if they are an 8. 

An ENTJ 1 would be an internal perfectionist. I just don't see how that could work. INTJ 1 would make some sense as an anal retentive picky person who was never satisfied with the order of his desk.


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## Zamyatin (Jun 10, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> Have you met many 8's? What mbti were they?
> 
> An ENTJ 1 seems like a very strange critter to me.
> 
> ...


That's funny, because I'm an INTJ 1, and my desk is not particularly tidy, I'm not anal retentive and my perfectionism is pretty well summarized as the desire to "impose order upon the world around them", which doesn't actually sound like 8 behavior to me at all. You don't seem to have a very good understanding of 1s.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> Have you met many 8's? What mbti were they?


I roomed with one for 3 years in college. We're still pretty good friends, though less so than before. He is an ESTJ 8w9, Self Pres.

Someone I work with fairly closely day to day is an ESTJ 8w7. I also personally know an ISTP 8w9, 2 ESTP 8w9, and actually, I take part of my last post back, I do have _one _additional ENTJ acquaintance who is an 8. 




> An ENTJ 1 seems like a very strange critter to me....An ENTJ 1 would be an internal perfectionist. I just don't see how that could work. INTJ 1 would make some sense as an anal retentive picky person who was never satisfied with the order of his desk.


Not at all. As we discussed before on the 8 vs. 1 thread, the type isn't - I repeat for emphasis, is *NOT* - about being anal retentive and OCD, and a great number of times they do not even have a persona of being picky or anal about their physical surroundings (if anything, I see this trait more in 2w1's, some 5's, and 6w5's along with specifically self pres and/or Sensor 1's). The self pres subtype, which I've never seen in an ENTJ, would be a bit odd; but the Social (which is the I know everything, authoritative, power-hungry 1) and the Sexual (who are justice-centric, see themselves as strong, passionately right) fit very well into the type and probably contribute to stereotypes of ENTJ for those who don't even know the enneagram. 

Adding 1 to ENTJ simply adds to the air of authoritativeness of ENTJ. They can be colossal douchebags, elitist, and pretty much 100% convinced they are always right, arguing back if you disagree. They won't nitpick the color combination of your outfit, but they have a hard time, like all 1's, letting go of what they think when it is supported by data (however subjective). They can also, to be fair, be extremely intelligent, quick-minded (with typical ENTJ rapid circuit-like thinking), and honest friends. Also, all of the 3 or so I know are highly accomplished in their respective fields (law, chemistry professorship, and on Capitol Hill). For more public examples, I also think of Margaret Thatcher, and (pretty sure) Angela Merkel.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Zamyatin said:


> You don't seem to have a very good understanding of 1s.


I agree, and I thank you for taking hte time to give me better examples.

I'll read this a couple fo times, and go read some more. 1's always seemed pretty introverted to me. it seemed to me They can impose their views on the world, but more as a thing to do when their inner world is organized and "happy." 

Again, thank you.


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## MaggieMay (Dec 27, 2014)

I know this is a bit late getting back but thank you everyone for your responses! I have a better idea of what both are and set out to accomplish. I feel better knowing that they don't necessarily backfire or become inaccurate just because the two don't "match" when compared. I appreciate each coming to my aid! Thanks again.


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