# Types on pricing and negotiating.



## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

95134hks said:


> "How fresh" would be a good question.
> 
> "How much?" would be next.
> 
> ...


I don't think they can take much off a euro haha. We'd probably end up in rounding territory. I've no problem handing out a euro it's no problem, but I would ask if they were fresh. They say flowers are hard to sell because they go off in a couple days. Quite similar to fruit. Yeah, if you ever come to Ireland don't go to Temple Bar. Well, you can but it's expensive. It's a great place, but expensive.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Doktorin Zylinder said:


> Cheaper elsewhere isn't about negotiating; it's about shopping around.
> 
> Negotiating is about getting what you want. I don't build relationships, engage in friendly banter, or get to know someone through negotiating. I'm extremely hard in negotiations. They are a means to an end and a short means at that.


So if you were selling something for 50 and I said "30, that's all I'll spend." what would you say.


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## Doktorin Zylinder (May 10, 2015)

spidershane said:


> So if you were selling something for 50 and I said "30, that's all I'll spend." what would you say.


I'd say fifty. 

I make custom jewelry and broker diamonds and gemstones. It's my price and it's set according to a formula. I charge what the formula says in order cover costs and make a profit. It's my price or the client can go elsewhere. I don't charge exuberant amounts because I can. If you come to me, you agree to my pricing structure and that's it. The market also keeps a lot of things in check. 

The same goes for my consulting whether it's economics or engineering. It's what I charge or you don't get my services. It's as simple as that. I don't negotiate on such things.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Doktorin Zylinder said:


> I'd say fifty.
> 
> I make custom jewelry and broker diamonds and gemstones. It's my price and it's set according to a formula. I charge what the formula says in order cover costs and make a profit. It's my price or the client can go elsewhere. I don't charge exuberant amounts because I can. If you come to me, you agree to my pricing structure and that's it. The market also keeps a lot of things in check.
> 
> The same goes for my consulting whether it's economics or engineering. It's what I charge or you don't get my services. It's as simple as that. I don't negotiate on such things.


That's brilliant. Thanks for that :smile-new: I was going to say with the 30 I had, have my arm stretched out, uncover another 10 under the 30 and say, in a high pitched voice, "40?".


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## Jehneefur (Jun 18, 2013)

I'm all about my research- I need to know everything before I decide to buy something. I love to compare and contrast.. it's part of my shopping process and it is just something I enjoy 

However- my negotiation skills... are not the best, to say the least.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

jehneefur said:


> I'm all about my research- I need to know everything before I decide to buy something. I love to compare and contrast.. it's part of my shopping process and it is just something I enjoy
> 
> However- my negotiation skills... are not the best, to say the least.


I did that after the negotiating lol. You're right with the research, it's much better to do it first, and it gives you an edge. There's also a hint of fun getting the product, comparing the prices, and realising you just ripped someone off. I'm interested to see how the tables will turn when I'm the guy dealing with the person that's trying to negotiate. If I get a lot of negotiators coming in I'd have to bump up the prices. I also understand people that take things at face value and I'd lower them accordingly. Of course, I'm dreaming here. 

As I said I'm not on the receiving end. Starting out with my own products I'd probably do my best to sell at a set price, and highlight how great the product is. Then I'd change it up and raise the prices, highlight the product, and do some negotiating for lets say a month. Just to see what happens  if I can.


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

spidershane said:


> How are your negotiation skills. Are you one to cave early, stand your ground, find a means to an alternative, dive straight in, are you strategic, do you research first, are you aggressive, flirtatious, have emotional appeal, do you lie, are you cunning?


When I'm buying or selling? I'm scarcely in this situation as a buyer. When I am, it's been over things relatively petty so I have, to a large degree, allowed the seller to set the price (unless it seems grossly unfair). I will usually, however, shop around, and I typically always have a price in mind that I'm comfortable with. Generally speaking, I don't worry too much if I don't buy what I want. If it's too high, it's too high. I stand by that.

Now, as for selling, it really depends on the type of customer. I used to work as a portrait photographer and I used to sell really expensive portrait bundles and framed products. Some customers are all about crunching numbers and getting the most out of their deal. For those people, I focus on emphasizing savings and the like. Other customers are more sentimental, and for those people, I go the emotional route. As I said, it's tailored to the individual customer. Generally though, selling to customers falls down to very similar sales techniques and they're only modified somewhat depending on the customer's personality and preferences. With all that said though, I do attempt to be ethical when selling. If I think something is unfair on them, I won't try to gouge them for their money. I'm always very honest and forthright when selling. My company once wanted me to lie to customers to get them to buy products they thought were free, but I firmly stood by my decision not to on the basis of ethics. Anyway, that's how I sell, and I sell in a way that I think is ethical.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I do not price. 

I manage tho and negotiate regular with staff and residents at an assisted living. Eh I would say I almost use everything listed depending on the situation at hand. But probably most frequently I find a means to an alternative. I guess I seem to be skilled at diverting and redirection from contention. In work environments tho I can get more strategic, not hardcore with everything perfectly charted. But I can get systematic, I like finding production routes and mediating/diverting. Lol I will resort to pouty lip if I know it will make a resident laugh and tell me in good humor to fuck off (hey old people have foul mouths).


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

SensationalCinnamon said:


> I do not price.
> 
> I manage tho and negotiate regular with staff and residents at an assisted living. Eh I would say I almost use everything listed depending on the situation at hand. But probably most frequently I find a means to an alternative. I guess I seem to be skilled at diverting and redirection from contention. In work environments tho I can get more strategic, not hardcore with everything perfectly charted. But I can get systematic, I like finding production routes and mediating/diverting. Lol I will resort to pouty lip if I know it will make a resident laugh and tell me in good humor to fuck off (hey old people have foul mouths).


I can be the same with diverting and redirection. It only seems to come out in high stress situations when I can tell someone is uncomfortable or anxious. It just comes out naturally and it's hard to explain. I have a habit of seeing the best in people, and what I'll find myself doing is occasionally twist someone's words to show them how I actually see them, even though they're low in self esteem, e.g someone will say they'll never get a girlfriend and they're too ugly, and I'll say don't be so modest instead of self detrimental. It's like a distraction flip flop lol. Keeps things positive.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

spidershane said:


> I can be the same with diverting and redirection. It only seems to come out in high stress situations when I can tell someone is uncomfortable or anxious. It just comes out naturally and it's hard to explain. I have a habit of seeing the best in people, and what I'll find myself doing is occasionally twist someone's words to show them how I actually see them, even though they're low in self esteem, e.g someone will say they'll never get a girlfriend and they're too ugly, and I'll say don't be so modest instead of self detrimental. It's like a distraction flip flop lol. Keeps things positive.


Exactly :happy:


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## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

If I don't think something is worth the price, I don't buy it. 

I'm not about negotiating. This isn't Thailand. 

The only time I move from my stance of no negotiation is when the product is damaged. In that case, I'll bargain with them on the price. I did this recently with a dress; the only fault with it was that the tag (the sewn in tag on the back of the neck) was coming undone. This dress was $120, so I wasn't going to pay that price for something that was not "perfect". I ended up getting 10% off. They were keen to sell the dress because it was the smallest size they stock and they struggle to move that size.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

katemess said:


> If I don't think something is worth the price, I don't buy it.
> 
> I'm not about negotiating. This isn't Thailand.
> 
> The only time I move from my stance of no negotiation is when the product is damaged. In that case, I'll bargain with them on the price. I did this recently with a dress; the only fault with it was that the tag (the sewn in tag on the back of the neck) was coming undone. This dress was $120, so I wasn't going to pay that price for something that was not "perfect". I ended up getting 10% off. They were keen to sell the dress because it was the smallest size they stock and they struggle to move that size.


Hmm. I had something similar like that happen. I was looking for a jacket. I found one, and noticed the inside of it was ripped at the arm sleeve, right where the armpit was. I brought it over to the guy in the shop and said "Hey, you know this is ripped here" and he said "do you want a discount?" I said "No, I just thought I'd tell you".

The brand is very important to me. I don't like the brand I wear to be seen, but I do see it's value. I suppose I wanted the store that sold the jacket to be a better brand than they were presenting. Come to think of it, since then I haven't shopped there.


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## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

spidershane said:


> Hmm. I had something similar like that happen. I was looking for a jacket. I found one, and noticed the inside of it was ripped at the arm sleeve, right where the armpit was. I brought it over to the guy in the shop and said "Hey, you know this is ripped here" and he said "do you want a discount?" I said "No, I just thought I'd tell you".
> 
> The brand is very important to me. I don't like the brand I wear to be seen, but I do see it's value. I suppose I wanted the store that sold the jacket to be a better brand than they were presenting. Come to think of it, since then I haven't shopped there.


I understand that. I just have problems resisting temptation. :tongue-new:


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

I'm INFJ.

I'm not really much for haggling, I will pay the requested price. I also don't care much for expensive things, unless you're getting value for money - and even if so, I will always look for a cheaper alternative which can do the same thing, or even better, than a more expensive thing. Price is no guarantor for quality. As far as spending goes, I'm a car nut, so lets start with the easiest thing, the whole car in itself: JDM vehicles might, to some uncivilised people, be uglier than European cars (they're not, they look fucking amazing to anybody who has a sense of taste), might lack their prestige, might lack their luxurious interiors and so on - but who gives a shit about that, when you can get a 20 year old GT-R for sub-$30,000 that can blow away a 2016 Porsche 911 Turbo costing almost $200,000; or a 20 year old Honda for sub-$10,000 which will eviscerate a $60,000 Mustang? Only fools pay over-the-odds for shit, when you can get gold for a fraction of the cost.






[video=dailymotion;x64oyl]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x64oyl_nissan-skyline-gt-r-vs-porsche-911_auto[/video]


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Big Daddy Kane said:


> I'm INFJ.
> 
> I'm not really much for haggling, I will pay the requested price. I also don't care much for expensive things, unless you're getting value for money - and even if so, I will always look for a cheaper alternative which can do the same thing, or even better, than a more expensive thing. Price is no guarantor for quality. As far as spending goes, I'm a car nut, so lets start with the easiest thing, the whole car in itself: JDM vehicles might, to some uncivilised people, be uglier than European cars (they're not, they look fucking amazing to anybody who has a sense of taste), might lack their prestige, might lack their luxurious interiors and so on - but who gives a shit about that, when you can get a 20 year old GT-R for sub-$30,000 that can blow away a 2016 Porsche 911 Turbo costing almost $200,000; or a 20 year old Honda for sub-$10,000 which will eviscerate a $60,000 Mustang? Only fools pay over-the-odds for shit, when you can get gold for a fraction of the cost.
> 
> ...


mmm. I tend to go by the phrase "you buy a BMW and drive it fast because you want people to know it's fast. You buy a Lamborghini and drive it slow because you know it's fast".


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

spidershane said:


> mmm. I tend to go by the phrase "you buy a BMW and drive it fast because you want people to know it's fast. You buy a Lamborghini and drive it slow because you know it's fast".


Hey, Lamborghini is a whole different thing! They only make supercars, and they don't even mass produce their supercars, so you can't compare them with normal manufacturers like Nissan or Honda, since they make all sorts of vehicles and also mass produce their supercars. Even so, there are GT-Rs extant which can outrun Lamborghinis and Ferraris, once again, available for purchase for a fraction of the price. 










Additionally you don't have to spend $6,000 every three months to do simple things like getting the oil changed, as you would if you had a Ferrari. $24,000 a year, just to change the oil and the plugs! Within two to three years, somebody owning a lower powered stock Japanese supercar would have saved enough to pay for the necessary aftermarket modifications which would see them get power gains to exceed what the Ferrari's capable of.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Big Daddy Kane said:


> Hey, Lamborghini is a whole different thing! They only make supercars, and they don't even mass produce their supercars, so you can't compare them with normal manufacturers like Nissan or Honda, since they make all sorts of vehicles and also mass produce their supercars. Even so, there are GT-Rs extant which can outrun Lamborghinis and Ferraris, once again, available for purchase for a fraction of the price.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know I'm not having a go or anything. I just saw an opportunity to put in a meaningful phrase about life haha. 
Indeed your totally right and I wouldn't disagree. 

This is my favourite: Pagani Huayra









because when I was a kid playing need for speed underground 2, my favourite car was the Mazda Mx-5 all souped up









and I'm terrified of wasps.


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## Vahyavishdapaya (Sep 2, 2014)

spidershane said:


> I know I'm not having a go or anything. I just saw an opportunity to put in a meaningful phrase about life haha.
> Indeed your totally right and I wouldn't disagree.
> 
> This is my favourite: Pagani Huayra
> ...


I didn't think you were having a go  I just saw an opportunity to post a cool picture of how to maintain a Ferrari. It's an awesome design actually, if you've got the money to throw away on the insane labour costs involved to actually get it out two or three times a year. But once it's out you can fix everything so easily.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Big Daddy Kane said:


> I didn't think you were having a go  I just saw an opportunity to post a cool picture of how to maintain a Ferrari. It's an awesome design actually, if you've got the money to throw away on the insane labour costs involved to actually get it out two or three times a year. But once it's out you can fix everything so easily.


What I always wondered and it kind of bothers me, is that I never see an advertisement on T.V for a lambourghini...I mean it's not going to make people jealous, if anything it would make me pumped to get one...I'd also feel privileged seeing the advertisement considering the luxury of the car and what it's known for. Imagining what to have in the add with the car would be awesome.

It could be skoda's add times 10.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

Reddit CEO Ellen Pao Bans Salary Negotiations To Equalize Pay For Men, Women « CBS San Francisco

This is too bad for women, that companies have legal pressure now - to dumb down the process - plus get away with paying everybody less.

Women who don't know how to negotiate should learn - if that is what is done in their industry.

Your boss has other concerns to keep "the store" running - other than to babysit you and figure out what YOU need for YOUR life. If this bothers you you have a problem with managing your own emotions.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

If we are really talking about fine art - one way to up your negotiating leverage is for somebody "important" to own your work. - Even if you had to give it away. Similar to this is where you have things displayed somewhere because of being in a contest or something.

If you don't over-do this you can't keep on offering freebies but this is just a fact of life - most people believe whatever they believe other people believe. Exposure helps you know who might be willing to buy your work, and who . . . . might give you a clue about what people are willing to pay.

It's not up to a gallery owner to force customer love. It's up to a gallery owner to find artists (whose work) they think have a fair shot at being loved. But a marketer of art can of course use all kinds of tactics to frame price or product, by comparison to other products.

Publicity for the artist (as a person) may be a whole other branch of marketing, maybe that is what you are talking about? Publicity in the sense of how people may feel about the artist is something that could be used in negotiation but it isn't what negotiation IS.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

gritglossandrainbows said:


> I dont want you to feel like I'm ganging up on you on your own thread. But I want to explain pricing for lower end art work in galleries. I hope you'll see how clinical it is.
> 
> *How pricing works for most artists: depends on the artists' history*
> 
> ...


You're not don't worry . I know hardly anything about it. I just have my opinions on paintings, people, and how I perceive what I'm looking at. It's not shit, it's solid stuff. I quite like paintings and the history behind them. I also like looking at the paintings of famous composers. Especially when the artist shows his interpretation of what the musician was thinking, while imagining the story that was told through the music.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Old Intern said:


> If we are really talking about fine art - one way to up your negotiating leverage is for somebody "important" to own your work. - Even if you had to give it away. Similar to this is where you have things displayed somewhere because of being in a contest or something.
> 
> If you don't over-do this you can't keep on offering freebies but this is just a fact of life - most people believe whatever they believe other people believe. Exposure helps you know who might be willing to buy your work, and who . . . . might give you a clue about what people are willing to pay.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of publicity. Like hosting an event for the artist. That's where I would start.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

spidershane said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of publicity. Like hosting an event for the artist. That's where I would start.


So is this in response to the art dealer story, or does this go to your intent of the OP.?

If the question is negotiation - the fact is - whoever cares least wins. As long as you have options, you can hold out for a better deal, simple as that. You find options with research and test markets and whatever creative ways you can think of to find options for yourself.

*But if the question is really marketing*, I think ENTP's have one advantage but stronger Fe has advantages too.

The thing about *Fi for marketing*, is that the internet has enhanced what Fi can do. Fi's basis in biology or common ground of human nature means that there is some link with the subconcious where the Fi is marketing to shared values between themselves and the client. When you can reach the whole world you can make the appeal to people who want what you want.

Funny thing about the ENTP as the middle man, is that Fe (of the entp) will see what is in the Fi person (observing them) and match up people who want that thing of the Fi artist - sometimes.

I think the founder of Starbucks is an ENFP, and Starbucks has used a master-marketing approach. What he said in one of his books was that he hired people (corp level) based on the sense of shared values with them, or the sense that they "got" or bought into what mattered to him, and understood his vision.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Old Intern said:


> So is this in response to the art dealer story, or does this go to your intent of the OP.?
> 
> If the question is negotiation - the fact is - whoever cares least wins. As long as you have options, you can hold out for a better deal, simple as that. You find options with research and test markets and whatever creative ways you can think of to find options for yourself.
> 
> ...


The art dealer story. I got side tracked. 

Cares about what...the result of the negotiation? I agree that if you have options you can hold out for a better deal. 

What marketing question? Yes I think Fe does have it's advantages. 

Hmm, I see. 

I like that about Starbucks. I'm going to check that out.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

spidershane said:


> The art dealer story. I got side tracked.
> 
> Cares about what...the result of the negotiation? I agree that if you have options you can hold out for a better deal.
> 
> ...


The book (Starbucks) was called *Onward*. Of course you might want to keep in mind that he had a marketing company helping him write the book. It made an impression on me that ENFP jumped off the page, but that was my take on it.

I'm still not sure if your OP is actually intended to explore negotiation or salesmanship, or marketing because they are all different things (but interrelated). I would imagine that Strong Fe would be great for selling real estate for example, but then the negotiating part would probably have to be handled with a formula - or guidelines provided from someone else, like a publication or agency manager.

You don't get a good deal because people like you, that is the opposite of negotiation - it's called begging. However, of course most human interaction of any kind involves establishing some level of trust.


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## Santa Gloss (Feb 23, 2015)

spidershane said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking along the lines of publicity. Like hosting an event for the artist. That's where I would start.


That's called having a solo show. That's where your new collection is displayed and sold to whatever extent possible. Someone can do this even if they're not associated with a gallery. Anyway, good luck with your thing


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

Old Intern said:


> The book (Starbucks) was called *Onward*. Of course you might want to keep in mind that he had a marketing company helping him write the book. It made an impression on me that ENFP jumped off the page, but that was my take on it.
> 
> I'm still not sure if your OP is actually intended to explore negotiation or salesmanship, or marketing because they are all different things. I would imagine that Strong Fe would be great for selling real estate for example, but then the negotiating part would probably have to be handled with a formula - or guidelines provided from someone else, like a publication or agency manager.


I want to see how and if people like negotiating. For people to share their experiences if they choose. The most basic example I gave was walking into a store, and getting something for a lower price. It's up to you to interpret the question in any way you want. I know they are all different things. 

I know what your saying about a formula, I think. Like what's involved with the company you're running or the company you work for. I've yet to reach that level. I'm open to learn whatever I can.


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## Old Intern (Nov 20, 2012)

spidershane said:


> I want to see how and if people like negotiating. For people to share their experiences if they choose. The most basic example I gave was walking into a store, and getting something for a lower price. It's up to you to interpret the question in any way you want. I know they are all different things.
> 
> I know what your saying about a formula, I think. Like what's involved with the company you're running or the company you work for. I've yet to reach that level. I'm open to learn whatever I can.


Well, I've pretty much stated my experience or input from my experience. If anything, I could have improved things in my small biz with having a wider awareness of indirect competitor pricing. My negotiating was not a formula, or not exactly and I liked that. My bullet points were not a formula. If somebody gave you data about the bullet points - that would be a formula. My bullet points, seriously - a definition of what negotiation IS.

It is surprising how many people think a negotiation is about how much you talk or how clever you are about talking. I'm thinking of a guy who worked for me (contract off and on). He talked about how he couldn't sell a certain thing he made. He just insisted on talking long and hard to people he was comfortable about talking to; waste of time. He seemed to have no concept of why people would care or not care about what he offered. This is why I say research and math is the whole thing.

Research and math being the whole thing still doesn't make it a formula. You have to have guidelines about the big picture, but then you still, in some cases, negotiate a specific contract customized to a situation. This is why I said a real estate person can use a formula because there are going to be certain issues or terms that will always come up. An Fe dom is going to be alert to what people want and what is on the market and terms can be figured out somewhat ahead. If you were an artist being commissioned for a painting you might not be able to go with any standards based on common practices for example.


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