# Narrowing it Down: INTP vs. INFJ



## Valdyr (May 25, 2010)

EDIT: First, I'd like to thank those who take the time to read this.

I've been trying to narrow down my type for a while. I've advertised being every type of NT at least once since I started using PercC, with INTP being the most common. I've studied the cognitive functions, but while I can almost effortlessly apply them to others, I have trouble applying such a rigid system to myself, at least with any ease. I prefer to intuit things about myself.

The big problem is that I've never felt really "at home" with any of the NT types, though I can get very close (especially with INTs). On top of that, I think I had a mis-perception of "feeling" as "emotional," even if I knew that it wasn't supposed to be the case, coupled with an expectation that others had of me to be the cliche NT intellectual.

Before I started taking the idea of being an NF seriously, I was mostly agonizing with the decision between INTP and INTJ. Why? I identified with the Ti of the INTP, and the Ni of the INTJ, but not so much the Ne of the INTP or the Te of the INTJ. 

The realization that suddenly made INFJ stand out, though it had already had a sort of "pull" (hard to describe), came when I was thinking about my emotional climate back when I first got into MBTI. "Ni-Ti loop, suppressed Fe" shed light on some of the nuances of my psyche, like a flash of lightning illuminates the details of murky storm clouds.

Though I can't exactly explain why, the Ni-Ti loop "fits" how I was through my adolescence, when I first got into MBTI. I was suffering from severe anxiety and depression because of, among other things, my sexuality, and the pressures of a highly competitive, anti-personal, meritocratic school system. This led me into a period of misanthropy - I hated and pushed away other people, who I saw as creating and perpetuating a world full of injustice, of which I was one of the victims - and paranoia about others' motives - parents, school officials etc. who were really just trying to help, I perceived as harboring malicious intent. I may not be an expert on functions, but I think this probably suppressed my Fe, or at least sent me into a perspective where Fe's associated feelings and values were bad things. 

Now that I've made my case and shared my story, maybe some of the forum members here could help me. I'd like to potentially figure this out before I hit post 1000. :crazy:


----------



## Silent Chameleon (Mar 29, 2011)

INFP maybe? That'd be my guess, but you don't really give enough to go on.


----------



## Valdyr (May 25, 2010)

Silent Chameleon said:


> INFP maybe? That'd be my guess, but you don't really give enough to go on.


Thanks for the reply. 

I'm not sure I was clear about what kind of help I'm asking for. I wasn't trying to provide a portrait of all relevant factors, then sitting back and waiting for analysis. I was more so asking if there was any validity to my thinking here, and possibly I could be asked some questions that could both help the person asking get the information they would like, and help guide me. Something along those lines.

As for the INFP thing, as much as I can see someone could see that, I really don't identify with either Ne or Fi.

Again, it's my fault I wasn't clear. :tongue:


----------



## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

You sound a lot like me, I too have a very weak Fe even though I'm INFJ. The tertiary loop does sound plausible, that far I can tell you. What about ISTP, do you relate with them? They have Ti first, then tertiary Ni, for a while I thought I was ISTP but I disregarded fairly quickly when I realized how much I sucked at Se.

What about the Ni and Ti do you relate to? Some people get kind of confused with the Ne and Ni terminology.


----------



## goodgracesbadinfluence (Feb 28, 2011)

Of course there is validity to your thinking. But I am still learning about the cognitive functions and how they apply... at least to non-INTP types. I know a good deal about INTP functions. 

Just because you don't particularly identify with Ne does NOT mean you are NOT INTP. It doesn't mean it does of course, because Ne is not our dominant function in the first place.... Ti is. And I'm sure by now you know we use all eight functions and such. It's just a matter of which we are more comfortable using. 

So I guess it's more or less figuring out which function you are more comfortable with and fit that into the logical parameters about what you already know about your type. Like you clearly know you're introverted, and I think it would also help to figure out if you're J or P. When you've done that, the cognitive function thing becomes easier.


----------



## Valdyr (May 25, 2010)

Again, thanks to all who are helping. Let's see how much I can get to:



> You sound a lot like me, I too have a very weak Fe even though I'm INFJ. The tertiary loop does sound plausible, that far I can tell you.


The tertiary loop, combined with being hostile to my own auxiliary (which would be the limiting influence), is the core of my feelings about this. Also, I don't have a weak Fe _anymore_, I think I intentionally denied my own Fe back when I got into MBTI, which distorted things. It's quite strong now. If I'm an INTP, I have an unusually strong Fe.



> What about ISTP, do you relate with them? They have Ti first, then tertiary Ni, for a while I thought I was ISTP but I disregarded fairly quickly when I realized how much I sucked at Se.


Only vaguely. I'm also lousy with my S functions, though they're there. S descriptions do not fit me at all. And in the loop I experience, if that's what it is, its definitely Ni "feeding" into Ti, not the other way around. If that makes any sense at all - I'm not sure how to word it. And I don't feel like an S. Summary: I'm sure I'm not an S. 



> What about the Ni and Ti do you relate to? Some people get kind of confused with the Ne and Ni terminology.


Ni has can be described in many ways, and has been described in many ways, but none of these descriptions seem to truly "get" Ni at its core. However, the common threads underlying the various ways I can describe Ni convey the general point. I've heard "convergent thinking," "ABC....Z," "just knowing," etc. It's difficult to put into words, but these resonate with me. For instance, if I'm confronted with a philosophical/moral question (one of my favorite kinds!) I will simply let everything "mull," and oftentimes, though it may take a while given the nature of the questions, an answer will bubble to the surface, clear as day. I can be very confident in this idea - it just "feels" right compared to the others. If that's not Ni, then I'm sorry for my ignorance. 



> Just because you don't particularly identify with Ne does NOT mean you are NOT INTP. It doesn't mean it does of course, because Ne is not our dominant function in the first place.... Ti is. And I'm sure by now you know we use all eight functions and such. It's just a matter of which we are more comfortable using.


This is why I still take the possibility of being INTP seriously - I could have underdeveloped my Ne. But if my understanding is right, then I would have had a Ti-Si thing going on. I've read about that and it does _not_ fit. 

I'm not saying you're wrong though, just elaborating. :happy:



> So I guess it's more or less figuring out which function you are more comfortable with and fit that into the logical parameters about what you already know about your type. Like you clearly know you're introverted, and I think it would also help to figure out if you're J or P. When you've done that, the cognitive function thing becomes easier.


I don't think it's possible to figure out J and P without functions, though I can see where you're coming from on figuring out some of the dichotomies before turning to functions. Like I know I'm IN regardless of specifics.


----------



## Alaya (Nov 11, 2009)

That what you described does sound like Ni, but frankly, there's something in your tone from that last post that tells me you're an INTP. Of course, this is meaningless considering that I can't really tell you why I'm thinking this.

Have you visited the INFJ forum and see how you feel there?


----------



## Valdyr (May 25, 2010)

Iconoclastic Visionary said:


> That what you described does sound like Ni, but frankly, there's something in your tone from that last post that tells me you're an INTP. Of course, this is meaningless considering that I can't really tell you why I'm thinking this.


I can see it too. It could be the pedantic writing style 



> Have you visited the INFJ forum and see how you feel there?


I started earlier this evening. I'll try more in-depth tomorrow when I'm less tired, but so far I feel quite comfortable.


----------



## vel (May 17, 2010)

I believe that Ti might yield same effect as Ni, a sort of a feeling when everything falls into place within a particular structure of thoughts or ideas. Ti though is a judging logical function which is quite different from Ni which is a perceiving function. Ti is structuring, splintering, it seeks precision in verbal and written expression, it seeks definitional accuracy. Ni to the contrary is convergent, unifying, it seeks similarities and will readily intermingle definitions if given a chance. Ni dominant's thought process is thus more chaotic and unstructured than a Ti dominant's thought process.

Here is Ti vs Ni discussion posted by Psychosmurf when he was deciding whether he might be an INFJ: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/35823-ti-vs-ni.html


----------



## Valdyr (May 25, 2010)

These descriptions of yours:



vel said:


> Ni to the contrary is convergent, unifying, it seeks similarities and will readily intermingle definitions if given a chance. Ni dominant's thought process is thus more chaotic and unstructured than a Ti dominant's thought process.





> Ni gives me "aha!" moments, intuitive realizations, but doesn't explain how something works. I've read that it is associated with blind belief, believing something is just true without understand how it can be true or how it works, with reaching conclusion without knowing the steps the followed there and I can say this sounds very much true.





> Ni inspects things that have already happened in past, seeing trends and patterns of the past, and then it flips these patterns and trends into the future. So it looks like a future oriented function but in reality it is very much past oriented, but just mirrors past into future. I also think Ni as if subtracts meaning from environment. It is very good at spotting things it deems meaningless.


As well as this image:










Made me sure I'm a heavy Ni user. You really nailed what my thought process feels like, though I'm not surprised given how much you seem to know about the subject.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

Valdyr said:


> Though I can't exactly explain why, the Ni-Ti loop "fits" how I was through my adolescence, when I first got into MBTI. I was suffering from severe anxiety and depression because of, among other things, my sexuality, and the pressures of a highly competitive, anti-personal, meritocratic school system.


An INFJ in a dom-tert loop depression would fit this exact description. Of course they'd identify with Ni, the dominant, and Ti, the tertiary! You're probably a little more community-oriented now, involved with the people around you. You're INFJ.

Congratulations. I have an INFJ friend that I know I can hang around without feeling like a babysitter, and being ready to sleep in for thirteen hours afterward, which is not something I can say of the rest of my friends.


----------



## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

vel said:


> I believe that Ti might yield same effect as Ni, a sort of a feeling when everything falls into place within a particular structure of thoughts or ideas. Ti though is a judging logical function which is quite different from Ni which is a perceiving function. Ti is structuring, splintering, it seeks precision in verbal and written expression, it seeks definitional accuracy. Ni to the contrary is convergent, unifying, it seeks similarities and will readily intermingle definitions if given a chance. *Ni dominant's thought process is thus more chaotic and unstructured than a Ti dominant's thought process.*
> 
> Here is Ti vs Ni discussion posted by Psychosmurf when he was deciding whether he might be an INFJ: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/35823-ti-vs-ni.html


My thought process is structured? :tongue: Well, comparatively, I suppose I have no references, really. So since I haven't thought this through from this perspective, I really have no place talking about it until my logic has asserted its position.

Yes, I have "that makes sense" moments.


----------



## Valdyr (May 25, 2010)

I've thought about it some more, and I think INFJ fits the best. Thank you all for the help!


----------



## phantom_cat (Jan 1, 2011)

Ni is like this... you're looking at something and thinking "I should move this, don't know why", then a few minutes later something goes wrong, and you're thinking "now what?", walk away for a bit to collect thoughts, go back to fix it, and "aha! that's why it wasn't working. moving the object would've prevented this." this I think is Ni-Se at work.


----------



## vel (May 17, 2010)

myexplodingcat said:


> My thought process is structured? :tongue: Well, comparatively, I suppose I have no references, really. So since I haven't thought this through from this perspective, I really have no place talking about it until my logic has asserted its position.
> 
> Yes, I have "that makes sense" moments.


Seems like INTPs and INFPs have many precisely formulated opinions on whatever subjects that interest them and they usually have more diverse interests. I can't formulate such opinions because there is always this perspectivism that kicks in that says "well may be if you consider this other point of view" and after a few dozen of these maybes I go arrggh! and drop it. Neither do I have as diverse range of interest because Ni needs to tie everything together. If something cannot be related, then I can't work up an interest in it and feel like it doesn't really concern me. Ne users seem to be able to just pick up different hobbies and create some context around them.


----------

