# INTJ or ENTP?



## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Hi!

I already did this "what's your type" questionaire, but i'm still not so sure about my type.
You suggested that i may be an INTJ, and i would love to be one, but i still have some doubts.

Here are some facts about me:
1. I'm a female, born in 1997.
2. My enneagram type is most likely 4w5.
3. My functions in order from the strongest to the weekest: Ni>Ne/Ti>Fi>(very close)Te>Se>Fe>Si.
4. I may resemble an extravert, especially from the point of view of the introvert. This is because i act like i am extraverted- force myself to speak up, talk to people, be confident etc. I do it on purpose, because life of the extraverts seem to be easier. But my true nature is introversion, not extreme, but still- i avoid loud and attention-seeking people and feel overwhelmed by them. I also have trouble with revealing very personal details from my life, and when it comes to meeting new people- i don't take the first step, unless i have to (or i force myself to do that). _INTJ?_
5. On the other hand, as a child i used to be very vivid, loud, brave and cheerful. And i can't stand a huge amount of time without seeing my close friends- i need to do it quite often. And... i don't think that my vibe is so cold. _ENTP?_
6. I prefer to use Ni over Ne- sometimes my knowledge comes from nowhere, letting me predict something; i usually can understand the things that weren't said; i can see a bunch of possibilities, but i prefer to stick to just one of them. My decision-making process involves both thinking and feeling- that's why my intuition must be my first function instead of Ti or Fi. And i usually use T over F, and it seems like it is more Te-Fi or Ti-Fi (wtf) than Ti-Fe. _INTJ?_
*7. I seem to be a perceiver- i am messy, disorganized, sometimes irresponsible, procrastinator, chaotic. *_ENTP?_
8. But I also like to, for example, segregate my clothes by colors and types, arrange my pinterest account and folders in my computer. When the project is important to me, i try to do it the best i can. When i pack myself, i use a list (in the card or in my head). When it comes to decision-making, i usually think about pros and cons. _INTJ?_
9. I hate to speak in public, i'm getting nervous, tend to construct very chaotic sentences. The same happens when it comes to the debates- i prefer to write than to speak. _INTJ?_
10. According to my friends, i'm a little bit bossy, know-it-all and mrs always right. :laughing: 

Especially n[SUP]o[/SUP] 7 makes me wonder. If i were more organized, i would be pretty sure i'm an INTJ.
So, what do you think? Shy ENTP with veeery undeveloped Fe and Si or INTJ with undeveloped Te which screws up everything?
You can ask some questions, if you think it's needed.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Have you ever considered types like ISFP, INFP and INFJ? I don't know why you would limit yourself to either INTJ or ENTP, Feeler types can be rational and cool-headed too.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> Have you ever considered types like ISFP, INFP and INFJ? I don't know why you would limit yourself to either INTJ or ENTP, Feeler types can be rational and cool-headed too.


Yup, i considered them and rejected as an option due to a low Fe (that makes for me being an INFJ improbable) and decision making process that is not limited only to Fi (because you mentioned Fi-doms, like INFP and ISFP), but combines T and F, with a dominance of T. And since my sensory functions are so weakly developed, and i'm pretty sure i'm an intuitive type, so it lefts two possible options for me: INTJ or ENTP.

(What's more, for a weak or two i was thinking that i am an INFP- but then it stroke me how being an Fi-dom doesn't apply to the way i make decisions, and that my sensitivity is rather hidden deep inside. I also considered ENFP, but i know some, and the way they think is just so different from my way of thinking- i'm not idealist, nor incurable optimist. I know not all xNFPs are like that, but still, there's a great contrast between us)

Did i strike you as a feeler?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Do this and let us know how it goes:

https://youtopiaproject.com/youtopia-16-assessment/


Fwiw I always get Butterfly (ISFP) ..and Shark (ISTP) if I go the "tough" version of myself.

Seems pretty accurate. I agree with ISFP a lot for me.

You might find it feels accurate for you too, lol.
I don't know how it works.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Turi said:


> Do this and let us know how it goes:
> 
> https://youtopiaproject.com/youtopia-16-assessment/


Firstly i got Owl (INTP), and then Chimpanzee (ENTP). Well... I'm more confident around people than a stereotypical INTP, but i hate speak in public (always get stressed-out) for a stereotypical ENTP :laughing:


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Yenna said:


> Firstly i got Owl (INTP), and then Chimpanzee (ENTP). Well... I'm more confident around people than a stereotypical INTP, but i hate speak in public (always get stressed-out) for a stereotypical ENTP :laughing:



You know, INTP makes sense. Especially given your #6 answer - you can see loads of possibilities (Ne) but prefer to stick with one (Ti). 

Hey, have you done this one?
Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes


If that gives you INTP as well, I'd be tempted to roll with that!
It does make sense, especially if you start feeling your Fe develop over the next 10 or so years.

INTPs don't have to be super introvert Marvel geeks. They can totally be normal, caring, easy to get along with people who are more than capable of making plans and sticking to them (though it might not come naturally).


Just randomly, when you feel like you can foresee implications, or the way things will unfold - is this usually positive, or negative?
Also, when you see numerous possiblities available - the ones you suggest you'd rather focus on the one - are these possibilties usually positive or negative?


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## Stawker (Nov 30, 2016)

Yenna said:


> Especially n[SUP]o[/SUP] 7 makes me wonder. If i were more organized, i would be pretty sure i'm an INTJ.


First of all, sexy avatar. Secondly, do you prefer to be organized or do you prefer to be scattered? The question is about preferences, and preferences do not necessarily entail skill. Most NTs suck at analysis even though they prefer analyzing. It's that sort of thing here.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Turi said:


> You know, INTP makes sense. Especially given your #6 answer - you can see loads of possibilities (Ne) but prefer to stick with one (Ti).
> 
> Hey, have you done this one?
> Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes
> ...


Hard to say, depends on the situation. I intent to focus on positive possibilities and use them, but also have tendency to overthink the negative ones. I know, it probably didn't clarify anything.

INTP was one of my very first results, but i wasn't so sure about it, because while deciding about pretty anything, i consider both logic and my values, (values are tempered by logic). And INTPs seem to use only the subjective logic (well i know not only, because we're all humans, not robots, but still)
I did this test several times, but i repeated it just now and here is a result:

Cognitive Process	
extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************** (22.4)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ****************** (18.2)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ******************************************* (43.6)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ******************************************* (43.7)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************************* (31.5)
good use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ******************* (19.4)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************** (26.5)
average use

By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTP
If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTP, or INTJ

But shit, it shows that my Ni and Ne are much stronger than my Ti, and my Te is just behind it.

I know i seem to have reservations about any type, but it's because i have many doubts, and i don't want to be mistyped.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Stawker said:


> First of all, sexy avatar. Secondly, do you prefer to be organized or do you prefer to be scattered? The question is about preferences, and preferences do not necessarily entail skill.


Thanks. Yennefer from the Witcher is sexy, indeed 
It's easier for me to function when i'm organized; however, being scattered comes more naturally to me.


> Most NTs suck at analysis even though they prefer analyzing. It's that sort of thing here.


Really? Always thought that N-users are excellent at analysis, due to their ability to see hidden meanings, intentions, possibilities etc.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@Yenna INTP is a great fit, perfect match. Both Ne and Te are usually strong in INTPs, they're just unconscious functions, and will usually appear when under stress - they're both very strong but generally not in a good way, i.e you overthinking the negative possibilities.


Low Fe makes perfect sense - it'll develop over time, it's supposed to be that low atm, in like 10 years you'll start to wonder if you're actually a feeler because your Fe will develop so much.
But, not yet. 

Also FWIW intentionally forcing yourself to be more "extravert" when in social situations, because you've obviously had a think and decided it's the best way to succeed in life is a super logical thing to do and makes perfect sense as something an INTP would do, IMO.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Turi said:


> @Yenna INTP is a great fit, perfect match. Both Ne and Te are usually strong in INTPs, they're just unconscious functions, and will usually appear when under stress - they're both very strong but generally not in a good way, i.e you overthinking the negative possibilities.
> 
> 
> Low Fe makes perfect sense - it'll develop over time, it's supposed to be that low atm, in like 10 years you'll start to wonder if you're actually a feeler because your Fe will develop so much.
> ...


Well, it makes sense.
What about Ni and not-so-low Fi? Can those functions have influence on INTP?


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@Yenna of course they can, every type has all of the functions.

In an INTP Ni would again be strong, actually read this:

leontsao.com/2016/06/08/6th-function-of-introverts-visual-reading/

Scroll down to the INTP bit.
See if that resonates with you.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Turi said:


> @Yenna of course they can, every type has all of the functions.
> 
> In an INTP Ni would again be strong, actually read this:
> 
> ...


I know, i meant quite visible (for me) or significant influence.

I guess that it resonates somehow with me- but the same happens with the description of Ti in the IxTJs. 
So, in that moment i am INTx, and i will have to consider, whether its, like you say, INTP (it's hard to believe for me, because it was my very first typing, and i excluded it due to the more complex decision-making process- yup, i know i'm repeating myself xD) or whether i'm a messy INTJ.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

FWIW, I think INTPs are the most likely to wind up taking tests a billion times and wondering wtf they are because in their head, they're intrigued by all of this personality type stuff for whatever reason, yet at the same time they think it's a crock of shit and isn't accurate enough.

Then they want to keep pushing and make it fit because they enjoy it.
So they take like a hundred tests and can never settle on anything.


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## Stawker (Nov 30, 2016)

Yenna said:


> It's easier for me to function when i'm organized; however, being scattered comes more naturally to me.





Yenna said:


> I know i seem to have reservations about any type, but it's because i have many doubts, and i don't want to be mistyped.


Most likely INTP, with an ounce of common sense which INTPs usually lack. As for Ni, well, I myself am Ni-aux and I have no idea how I use it. I'm surprised you even know that you can use Ni. That function is elusive as hell.



> Really? Always thought that N-users are excellent at analysis, due to their ability to see hidden meanings, intentions, possibilities etc.


Yup. Not all NTs are 130 IQ folks after all. And even those who are aren't rigorous enough to be good at analyzing any non-elementary subject.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Yenna said:


> Yup, i considered them and rejected as an option due to a low Fe (that makes for me being an INFJ improbable) and decision making process that is not limited only to Fi (because you mentioned Fi-doms, like INFP and ISFP), but combines T and F, with a dominance of T. And since my sensory functions are so weakly developed, and i'm pretty sure i'm an intuitive type, so it lefts two possible options for me: INTJ or ENTP.


I see, but I think these are not the only two possible options. Maybe INTP and ENTJ could fit you too.



> Did i strike you as a feeler?


Not particularly, I was just asking because you seemed resolute on either INTJ or ENTP without considering any other option, but I see that's not exactly the case.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Stawker said:


> Most likely INTP, with an ounce of common sense which INTPs usually lack. As for Ni, well, I myself am Ni-aux and I have no idea how I use it. I'm surprised you even know that you can use Ni. That function is elusive as hell.


Yup, intuitive functions are hard to explain, but i'll try to describe them as i understand them:
*Ne* is like a domino- one idea leads to another, this leads to another- an endless course. Or, even better- like Lernaean Hydra- when you cut one head of this monster, there will grow 2 or 3 more in the place of the amputed one. So, when you cut those 2 or 3 heads, there will be 4 or 9 after a few seconds, and so on. You can juggle ideas without necessarily focusing on the specific one.

*Ni* is more like a singular lightning during a storm full of thunderclaps. You are aware of many possibilities, but only one of them strikes you as a significant and correct one. You can predict future based on the impression you get from the situation, you can read people's true intentions- and not by observing their behaviour; the knowledge comes not from focusing on external data (Se?), nor considering each possible outcomes (Ne?) but from the vibe, the impression that you get- and you somehow know it's true. _(That's when my T protests "But Yenna, how can you be so sure about that? Without any evidence?")_
Of course, it's not like you are a fairy or something- this happens only from time to time, and you don't really control it. But still you use it as a guide while making judgements.

_(Or, maybe, my understanding of the functions is completely wrong- this is also possible.)_



Mr. Castelo said:


> I see, but I think these are not the only two possible options. Maybe INTP and ENTJ could fit you too.
> 
> I was just asking because you seemed resolute on either INTJ or ENTP without considering any other option, but I see that's not exactly the case.


I understand. I endeavour to type myself for some time, that's why i already excluded some options.


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## Stawker (Nov 30, 2016)

Yenna said:


> Yup, intuitive functions are hard to explain, but i'll try to describe them as i understand them:
> *Ne* is like a domino- one idea leads to another, this leads to another- an endless course. Or, even better- like Lernaean Hydra- when you cut one head of this monster, there will grow 2 or 3 more in the place of the amputed one. So, when you cut those 2 or 3 heads, there will be 4 or 9 after a few seconds, and so on. You can juggle ideas without necessarily focusing on the specific one.
> 
> *Ni* is more like a singular lightning during a storm full of thunderclaps. You are aware of many possibilities, but only one of them strikes you as a significant and correct one. You can predict future based on the impression you get from the situation, you can read people's true intentions- and not by observing their behaviour; the knowledge comes not from focusing on external data (Se?), nor considering each possible outcomes (Ne?) but from the vibe, the impression that you get- and you somehow know it's true. _(That's when my T protests "But Yenna, how can you be so sure about that? Without any evidence?")_
> ...


Your understanding is contingent on the explanations you've read and honestly, all the explanations I've read are as helpful as nothing at all. The only thing I really know is the difference between Ni and Ne, which may or may not help. The ideas of Ni don't exist independent of a framework/worldview. If an Ni-user has an idea, you better expect this idea to tie in with the rest of his worldview at some level; keep pushing an Ni user to explain his worldview and at some level he may just reach the entire history or the future of the universe . The ideas of Ne user, on the other hand, can exist entirely independent of any sort of framework. They are more like random shots of ideas in which ideas are yet to be integrated and tested. Ni first assimilates and then generates, Ne first generates and then assimilates. Which is why Ni gives conclusions before debating usually (until ofc gets Te/Se refuting evidence -- lots of things can happen) and Ne reaches conclusions after debating (hence their popularity as devil's advocates, despite the fact that they suck at debating; and we cannot even call these 'conclusions').

To be sure, the evidence for ideas of Ni and Ne depends entirely upon the user's knowledge base and general intelligence. If you come up with a hunch and can't explain it, it means you suck at explaining or are bullshitting or simply realized that perhaps the hunch isn't as accurate as you thought it was some seconds ago. It doesn't make you an intuitive, really. But then again, Barnum effect is real here so gotta tread carefully. You should better take it from the Te/Ti axis; that's much more easily diagnosed and if you got Te, then you most definitely have Ni and vice-versa.


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

Te is not so much about being organized than decision-making and, higher in the stack, it's about wanting stuff and people to be in order around you, that's why ENTJs usually end up in a "boss position". That "order" though is entirely subjective to each individual so Te to some extent can be messy. Si would be the one being organized I think. 

I also noted that Ti can seem similar to Ni because both are about pattern recognition, the difference being that Ni is a lot more unconscious, which is more obvious in ENFJs, they usually can't explain well their reasoning and intuitions even when they're right. 

Fe-Ni (ENFJ) is about empathy (Fe) using possible outcomes (Ni) to reach a conclusion that will help people now (Se). 
Ni-Fe (INFJ) is about possible outcomes (Ni) being narrowed down by empathy (Fe) and supported by logic "repeated observations" (Ti).

Ni left on its own can very rarely make a decision though because Ni itself is neither supported by rationality or feeling, while Ti in some situations can make a decision by itself, no matter how insensitive that decision/conclusion will be. Ti is also similar to Fi in the sense that it can create a subjective world if not careful, Fi focusing on emotions and values and Ti focusing on rationality. And I'm guessing your "hunches" are usually people related? Because that would make sense for Ti to see its understanding of people as hunches.

Ni-Te (INTJ) would be possible outcomes (Ni) being narrowed down by their application to the real world (Te) and being supported by inner values "what's right vs what's wrong" (Fi).
Te-Ni (ENTJ) would be organizing the real world (Te) supported by possible ways to achieve the goal (Ni) and what will give the most results now (Se).
ENTJs are usually colder leaders than INTJs because they want RESULTS _now_.
Ne-Ti (ENTP) would be new ideas (Ne) being narrowed down by logic “is it logical, is it possible?" (Ti) and supported by a desire to help others (Fe).
If Fe is developed enough ENTPs can make entertainers for example.
Ti-Ne (INTP) would be rationality "what's logical vs what's not logical" (Ti) toned down by new ideas (Ne) and supported by some sort of personal organization/routines (Si).

Basically all this to say that INTP sounds right to me, because:



> 8. But I also like to, for example, segregate my clothes by colors and types, arrange my pinterest account and folders in my computer. When the project is important to me, i try to do it the best i can. When i pack myself, i use a list (in the card or in my head). *(Si in 3th)* When it comes to decision-making, i usually think about pros and cons *(That's Ti not Te)*.


Ti can have a hard time coming to a conclusion if every possibilities have enough pros to it.

Anyway, I'll shut up now.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

@vhaydenlv I would like to clear some things up about your definitions because this might help @Yenna type herself. I think you might disagree with me, and I'm open to a debate as long as it doesn't derail the thread.



vhaydenlv said:


> Te is not so much about being organized than decision-making and, higher in the stack, it's about wanting stuff and people to be in order around you, that's why ENTJs usually end up in a "boss position". That "order" though is entirely subjective to each individual so Te to some extent can be messy. Si would be the one being organized I think.


Sorry if I misunderstood something, but I find it to be a bit contradicting that you said that Te is not about being organized and then right after said that Te is about wanting stuff and people to be in _order_ around you... That is organizing, Te is about structure and order in the external world. But I agree with you that Te-users can be messy, especially if their Te is not high enough in their functional stack. Te users organize stuff for the sake of efficiency, so they only care about organizing stuff that personally matters to them (which links to Fi).



> I also noted that Ti can seem similar to Ni because both are about pattern recognition, the difference being that Ni is a lot more unconscious, which is more obvious in ENFJs, they usually can't explain well their reasoning and intuitions even when they're right.


Ti doesn't recognize patterns, it isn't a perceiving function. Ti is more like Fi, an internal framework of logic, but based on subjective reason, not values. It might recognize incongruences in logic, which might seem like pattern recognition, but it's not the same thing.



> 8. But I also like to, for example, segregate my clothes by colors and types, arrange my pinterest account and folders in my computer. When the project is important to me, i try to do it the best i can. When i pack myself, i use a list (in the card or in my head). *(Si in 3th)* When it comes to decision-making, i usually think about pros and cons *(That's Ti not Te)*.


How is using a list Si? Si is just about sensory impressions, making lists is more like Te because it's organizing one's thoughts in an external way. Also, I think that evaluating pros and cons can be both Ti and Te, it's the most basic form of logic.

I think overall I agree with the rest of what you said.


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

Turi said:


> Do this and let us know how it goes:
> 
> https://youtopiaproject.com/youtopia-16-assessment/
> 
> ...


That was tremendous fun, and...
Nooo!
I'm a Chimp *picks and eats a flea*

Anyway, hey Yenna.
My brother is INTx (no-one not even both of us together know which one that is, since tests show either-or for him) I'm really starting to think that some of us are actually ambiguously two simultaneous types, or at least flip between two.

Hope you find what fits you best anyway, be it one type or more


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@Xen23 - Chimp - that's ENTP right? Nailed it, haha. How?
Also, since you quoted me, I want to clear up for pretty much just myself, that I actually get ISTP (Shark) when I'm being legit on that youtopia test.
I don't know why I was bullshitting myself into being more compassionate etc than I really am, when I answer honestly and truthfully, I get ISTP without fail, I just re-did the test for the lulz and realised I was picking 'compassion' over other words that are more true to me for whatever reason.
Felt the need to clear it up. Don't know why. 

Can't even avoid it without deliberately picking words that don't resonate with me as much as others.

It's funny because the very first page has like.. competitive.. sharp.. brash.. likes sports.. action.. I mean I'm always gonna get xSTP if those options are available.

._.



Random thing that just popped in my head - why do some tests have stupid questions like.. 'what do you value more, emotions or logic?' - wouldn't anyone in their right mind pick logic?
Why is that a thing? Anyone who picks 'emotions' is full of it. Surely. 

How can someone value 'emotions' over.. making sense? ..eh.


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

Turi said:


> How can someone value 'emotions' over.. making sense? ..eh.


Not anyone with any sense...
But then again...
I watched my BFF fill out a questionnaire...
She's INFP.
You know what _you'd _put in there, right...
Then you watch someone else do it and you're querying their 'logic'.

It takes all sorts.

We fall out over plenty, she's vegan and into Wicca. I don't understand that. At all.
I want science and medicine to advance, she's hung up over testing on rats or something :x

Apart from that, we've been friends since school, so we know what subjects not to discuss


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

Xen23 said:


> That was tremendous fun, and...
> Nooo!
> I'm a Chimp *picks and eats a flea*
> 
> ...


 I seem INxJ, flipping between extroverted thinking and feeling. I can access both, but never at the same time. Sigh.

This is a category system after all, and of course people are a bit more fluid.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Squirt said:


> I seem INxJ, flipping between extroverted thinking and feeling. I can access both, but never at the same time. Sigh.
> 
> This is a category system after all, and of course people are a bit more fluid.


But you have to prefer one over another, right? Try thinking about the one you use the most, or the one that feels more natural to you.


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Turi said:


> Random thing that just popped in my head - why do some tests have stupid questions like.. 'what do you value more, emotions or logic?' - wouldn't anyone in their right mind pick logic?
> Why is that a thing? Anyone who picks 'emotions' is full of it. Surely.
> 
> How can someone value 'emotions' over.. making sense? ..eh.


Believe me, there are a lot of people that would pick emotions over logic any day, sometimes they don't even try to make sense.


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> Believe me, there are a lot of people that would pick emotions over logic any day, sometimes they don't even try to make sense.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> Believe me, there are a lot of people that would pick emotions over logic any day, sometimes they don't even try to make sense.



See this is where I know I definitely lean more towards Ti than any other function.. I simply can't imagine actually making a decision without thinking about it, even if it's a shitty decision based off my feelings, thought goes into it, every time, logical thought, that may or may not be thrown out the window.

When a test asks something like.. "is it better to be emotional or logical?" I feel like.. I need to see the people who click "emotional". I'd absolutely love to ask someone.. why are you picking that answer? How are you picking it?
What exactly is running through your brain, right now, as you decide it's better to be emotional than logical?
Do you understand what logical means? Maybe you should google it, and have a read, because no one in their right mind would pick emotional given the choice between those two.

That question is verbatim from a couple of tests I've taken, and is rephrased in a load of others.
It's ridiculous.

IMO, the online tests should really re-word things to have it be less.. stupid.

Something like "do you tend to act on decisions by considering the pros and cons of a situation, or by ultimately following your gut instinct?"

That's not perfect, but something along those lines is more geared towards getting true answers.


There's one in 16personalities that irks me too - it asks if you like to dress up, or go to role-play social activities (that's not verbatim) - I feel like an incredibly small percentage of people would truthfully pick "agree" to that question, even though it's obviously supposed to be an introversion/extroversion question.

I understand some people are into that but some of the most extroverted people I know would pick a massive DISAGREE on that one, things like that, bad questions, are going to seriously skew the results.

That's one that some people might actually pick the big circle disagree on, when they've been clicking sorta little circles for the rest of the test on. Could singlehandedly give them the wrong results with a question like that.


Sorry for totally de-railing the thread, maybe I should make a new one exposing terrible questions in MBTI tests - but when the tests say "party" - that word on it's own, will have people who ARE extroverts pick the introverted option, skewing the results.
Not everyone likes a party.
My wife is an extrovert extraordinaire, and a "party" is the last place she wants to be.

Sorta similar for me - I love socialising with my friends. Love having a drink at the pub.
I'll gladly go out, with friends, have a good time, meet new people, at a jam session or an open mic night - this is normal, social stuff for me, which I enjoy.

The tests for some reason use the word "party" which for me puts an imagine in mind of random people at someones house who I barely even know, everybody drinking.. etc.. I get it, it's meant to be about how much you love socialising, but the word itself throws me off. I can't pick the "meet new people at a party" option because I wouldn't go to the damn party.

I'd pick the "meet new people at social gatherings (that you're actually interested in)" option though.
I don't know how to rephrase those questions to be more realistic.
I just feel like they're wrong.

IMO there's wayyyyyy less introverts than we seem to think.
Throw the supposed introverts (myself included) into a place full of like minded people, where it's related to something that interests them, and you'll find they'll be extraverted as hell, meet new people, talk about things they like, etc.. 
But, they'll pick the introvert options in tests because of shitty words like "party".


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## Mr Castelo (May 28, 2017)

Turi said:


> See this is where I know I definitely lean more towards Ti than any other function.. I simply can't imagine actually making a decision without thinking about it, even if it's a shitty decision based off my feelings, thought goes into it, every time, logical thought, that may or may not be thrown out the window.
> 
> When a test asks something like.. "is it better to be emotional or logical?" I feel like.. I need to see the people who click "emotional". I'd absolutely love to ask someone.. why are you picking that answer? How are you picking it?
> What exactly is running through your brain, right now, as you decide it's better to be emotional than logical?
> ...


I believe that the word "emotional" doesn't seem to have a bad meaning to those people, for example, they might think that someone who is emotional is more kind, gentle, energetic and "deep", they migh also see logical people as being cold and emotionless, etc. I think that there isn't a inherently bad meaning to either of those words, but I do agree that those tests have things worded in a very simplistic/dumb way.



> There's one in 16personalities that irks me too - it asks if you like to dress up, or go to role-play social activities (that's not verbatim) - I feel like an incredibly small percentage of people would truthfully pick "agree" to that question, even though it's obviously supposed to be an introversion/extroversion question.
> 
> I understand some people are into that but some of the most extroverted people I know would pick a massive DISAGREE on that one, things like that, bad questions, are going to seriously skew the results.
> 
> That's one that some people might actually pick the big circle disagree on, when they've been clicking sorta little circles for the rest of the test on. Could singlehandedly give them the wrong results with a question like that.


Yeah, I hate that question too. Also, I remember of one being about politics... What does politics even have to do with MBTI? Sure, you might believe that more SJ types are Conservatives or something, but you can't generalize people like that.



> Sorry for totally de-railing the thread, maybe I should make a new one exposing terrible questions in MBTI tests - but when the tests say "party" - that word on it's own, will have people who ARE extroverts pick the introverted option, skewing the results.
> Not everyone likes a party.


I think that you should create this thread, it would be interesting, to say the least. Also, yeah, we're really derailing this thread.



> My wife is an extrovert extraordinaire, and a "party" is the last place she wants to be.
> 
> Sorta similar for me - I love socialising with my friends. Love having a drink at the pub.
> I'll gladly go out, with friends, have a good time, meet new people, at a jam session or an open mic night - this is normal, social stuff for me, which I enjoy.
> ...


Your Ti is showing a lot here, haha. "I just feel like they're wrong".



> IMO there's wayyyyyy less introverts than we seem to think.
> Throw the supposed introverts (myself included) into a place full of like minded people, where it's related to something that interests them, and you'll find they'll be extraverted as hell, meet new people, talk about things they like, etc..
> But, they'll pick the introvert options in tests because of shitty words like "party".


I wish I could know how many introverts there really are out there. I do think that the internet is full of them, but in real life there seems to be way less of them. But we have to take into account that some introverts force themselves to act like extroverts in public because that's a trait valued in our society, so there isn't much of an objective way to measure this, we can only guess.


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> Sorry if I misunderstood something, but I find it to be a bit contradicting that you said that Te is not about being organized and then right after said that Te is about wanting stuff and people to be in _order_ around you... That is organizing, Te is about structure and order in the external world. But I agree with you that Te-users can be messy, especially if their Te is not high enough in their functional stack. Te users organize stuff for the sake of efficiency, so they only care about organizing stuff that personally matters to them (which links to Fi).


I know it sounds contradictory, I've noticed it while writing it but I was tired and didn't know how to correct it. Te and Si are both about organization in a way, but Te is about efficiency (like you said) and organizing the outside world while Si is about pre-existing systems, routines and personal organisation so Si tend to be cleaner than Te who might only care about specific sets of goals, house work not being one of them (and that's what I meant by Te is not organisation per se, I meant "clean" as in their house, i might be wrong though.)



Mr. Castelo said:


> Ti doesn't recognize patterns, it isn't a perceiving function. Ti is more like Fi, an internal framework of logic, but based on subjective reason, not values. It might recognize incongruences in logic, which might seem like pattern recognition, but it's not the same thing.


I didn't say it was exactly same thing. I actually said that Ti is very similar to Fi in the way that it creates a subjective inner world. I'm not sure I agree or disagree about what you said on pattern recognition though.



Mr. Castelo said:


> How is using a list Si? Si is just about sensory impressions, making lists is more like Te because it's organizing one's thoughts in an external way. Also, I think that evaluating pros and cons can be both Ti and Te, it's the most basic form of logic.


You might be right about the list thing, I was using Si-Te (ISTJ) as a reference in my mind so what I saw as a Si thing could be a Te thing. About the pros and cons thing, it sounded Ti because of the way it was phrased but now I'm not so sure anymore. It depends if it was meant "efficiency-wise" or "logic-wise".


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

Turi said:


> Random thing that just popped in my head - why do some tests have stupid questions like.. 'what do you value more, emotions or logic?' - wouldn't anyone in their right mind pick logic?
> Why is that a thing? Anyone who picks 'emotions' is full of it. Surely.
> How can someone value 'emotions' over.. making sense? ..eh.


Since you asked, I pick emotions because I read that question as valuing diplomacy and empathy over being rational at all cost. It doesn't mean that I don't value logic, I actually value logic very much, but I tend to choose people's emotions over the "harsh truth" because I'm uncomfortable with hurting people's feelings. If that's what they need they can always find someone else that's gonna be comfortable with giving them harsh rationality. Why should it be my job to argue with them over how wrong they are when I can try to make them think for themselves and refer them to someone else?

Plus, it doesn't mean that what I see as logical will be for someone else, that's why I usually ask questions to enlighten contradictions but I'll never be the one drawing conclusions. I will always try to be as rational as possible but I'll never not consider someone's emotions, that's why I choose emotions which sounds very logic to me in its own way.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Stawker said:


> Your understanding is contingent on the explanations you've read and honestly, all the explanations I've read are as helpful as nothing at all. The only thing I really know is the difference between Ni and Ne, which may or may not help. The ideas of Ni don't exist independent of a framework/worldview. If an Ni-user has an idea, you better expect this idea to tie in with the rest of his worldview at some level; keep pushing an Ni user to explain his worldview and at some level he may just reach the entire history or the future of the universe . The ideas of Ne user, on the other hand, can exist entirely independent of any sort of framework. They are more like random shots of ideas in which ideas are yet to be integrated and tested. Ni first assimilates and then generates, Ne first generates and then assimilates. Which is why Ni gives conclusions before debating usually (until ofc gets Te/Se refuting evidence -- lots of things can happen) and Ne reaches conclusions after debating (hence their popularity as devil's advocates, despite the fact that they suck at debating; and we cannot even call these 'conclusions').
> 
> To be sure, the evidence for ideas of Ni and Ne depends entirely upon the user's knowledge base and general intelligence. If you come up with a hunch and can't explain it, it means you suck at explaining or are bullshitting or simply realized that perhaps the hunch isn't as accurate as you thought it was some seconds ago. It doesn't make you an intuitive, really. But then again, Barnum effect is real here so gotta tread carefully. You should better take it from the Te/Ti axis; that's much more easily diagnosed and if you got Te, then you most definitely have Ni and vice-versa.


Thanks for the tips. Lol, i know that just "having hunches" doesn't make anyone an intuitive. However, i have a question about that:


> the evidence for ideas of Ni and Ne depends entirely upon the user's knowledge base and general intelligence. If you come up with a hunch and can't explain it, it means you suck at explaining or are bullshitting or simply realized that perhaps the hunch isn't as accurate as you thought it was some seconds ago.


This seems to contradict with a statement from the most popular descriptions, that one of the skills of Ni-users is:
"having insights that seem to come out of thin air and learning to rely on them"
So, that would suggest that Ni (separated from other functions) isn't really about deduction nor evidences. Especially if, according to *vhaydenlv*, as a function is quite unconsciuos. Am i right?

Or, did i misunderstand you, or the description?



vhaydenlv said:


> Te is not so much about being organized than decision-making and, higher in the stack, it's about wanting stuff and people to be in order around you, that's why ENTJs usually end up in a "boss position". That "order" though is entirely subjective to each individual so Te to some extent can be messy. Si would be the one being organized I think.


So my Si sucks.



> I also noted that Ti can seem similar to Ni because both are about pattern recognition, the difference being that Ni is a lot more unconscious, which is more obvious in ENFJs, they usually can't explain well their reasoning and intuitions even when they're right.


I usually can find an explanation for my reasoning, but i'm not very satisfied by it, because i know that some indicators can lead to many other conclusions, not neccesarily to the one that i consider correct.



> Ni left on its own can very rarely make a decision though because Ni itself is neither supported by rationality or feeling, while Ti in some situations can make a decision by itself, no matter how insensitive that decision/conclusion will be. Ti is also similar to Fi in the sense that it can create a subjective world if not careful, Fi focusing on emotions and values and Ti focusing on rationality. And I'm guessing your "hunches" are usually people related? Because that would make sense for Ti to see its understanding of people as hunches.


Indeed, they are. 



> Ni-Te (INTJ) would be possible outcomes (Ni) being narrowed down by their application to the real world (Te) and being supported by inner values "what's right vs what's wrong" (Fi).


From your descriptions, this one seems accurate.


> Ti can have a hard time coming to a conclusion if every possibilities have enough pros to it.


...but this seems accurate too.

Anyway, thanks for the explanations.



Xen23 said:


> That was tremendous fun, and...
> Nooo!
> I'm a Chimp *picks and eats a flea*
> 
> ...


Hey Xen!
Yup, this seems to be a problem, since INTJ and INTP share zero common functions. Maybe this is connected with a usage of shadow functions? But i don't really know the topic that well to speculate.
Thanks, hope your brother will find his type too!



Mr. Castelo said:


> Sorry if I misunderstood something, but I find it to be a bit contradicting that you said that Te is not about being organized and then right after said that Te is about wanting stuff and people to be in _order_ around you... That is organizing, Te is about structure and order in the external world. But I agree with you that Te-users can be messy, especially if their Te is not high enough in their functional stack. Te users *organize stuff for the sake of efficiency, so they only care about organizing stuff that personally matters to them (which links to Fi).*


This!


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

Yenna said:


> From your descriptions, [INTJ] seems accurate.
> ...but [Ti] seems accurate too.


I was reading what @Mr. Castelo had to say and in fact what I was describing as Ti could very well be Te in this case. "Pros and cons" isn't very descriptive. What are you pros and cons usually about? The application you can make of something, or it's inner logic?

And you agreeing to this is a pretty good indicator that you're INTJ.


> Te users organize stuff for the sake of efficiency, so they only care about organizing stuff that personally matters to them (which links to Fi).


It can also be easier to go by 4th functions. 
INTP's 4th function is Fe: So how is your empathy? Do you relate to people's emotions well or not?
INTJ's 4th function is Se: Some of them will describe the outside world processed by our five senses as overwhelming at times. Do loud noises bother you/make you anxious? Do you like large crowds? If not, why?

Also having a high Ti doesn't mean you're not INTJ.
My Fi is almost as high as my Fe yet I don't relate to INFP all that much.
You have to go with what is your "natural inclination".

This test might be helpful: Cognitive Function Test


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

Yenna said:


> Hey Xen!
> Yup, this seems to be a problem, since INTJ and INTP share zero common functions. Maybe this is connected with a usage of shadow functions? But i don't really know the topic that well to speculate.
> Thanks, hope your brother will find his type too!


From reading your posts, the ponderous, no-frills but incisive manner in which you write at least, suggests INTx.
Please TiC that MBTI, like any system, isn't perfect.

And with functions, my example is I use Ne>Ti>Si>Fi o.o when my MBTI type suggests Ne>Ti>Fe>Si  
It's sometimes best fit. 

Try this test here. It gives a nice break-down of your predicted order of functions: 

Jungian Cognitive Functions Test

Brother likes structure and organization as well as original spontaneous thought (he's a software engineer). He keeps a tidy computer and work environment but his room is a tip xD 
His Te/Ti/Ne/Ni are pretty close in % and doubtless he is INTx (he's super-introverted and a stereotype geek, but with a drive to be the top of the food-chain at work ). Te/Ti are too close to call. However, he seems to score more on Ne than Ni, so INTP seems logically a more likely fit. He studied AI for his masters so that's both Te/Ti (both types of thinking are silly high for him like 90% or so, and marginally dominant). 
-However, he thinks descriptions of both INTP and INTJ fit him. Knowing him, I'd agree. 
He is _very _NT dominant and an introvert.


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## Stawker (Nov 30, 2016)

Yenna said:


> This seems to contradict with a statement from the most popular descriptions, that one of the skills of Ni-users is:
> "having insights that seem to come out of thin air and learning to rely on them"
> So, that would suggest that Ni (separated from other functions) isn't really about deduction nor evidences. Especially if, according to *vhaydenlv*, as a function is quite unconsciuos. Am i right?
> 
> Or, did i misunderstand you, or the description?


Ex nihilo nihil fit. If you have an insight, you can in fact explain it given sufficient reasoning capacities. Otherwise Ni would be no more than witchcraft. My insights do seem to come out of 'thin air' but almost always I can explain exactly what made me suddenly see them. I can always diagnose that one vital piece of information that I was missing, or was neglecting so far. 

Good luck with the typing.


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

vhaydenlv said:


> I was reading what @Mr. Castelo had to say and in fact what I was describing as Ti could very well be Te in this case. "Pros and cons" isn't very descriptive. What are you pros and cons usually about? The application you can make of something, or it's inner logic?


My pro's are about what's reasonable, what can bring more benefits (or less harm), what i consider right. So, more like pragmatism- but it depends on the situation.


> It can also be easier to go by 4th functions.
> INTP's 4th function is Fe: So how is your empathy? Do you relate to people's emotions well or not?
> INTJ's 4th function is Se: Some of them will describe the outside world processed by our five senses as overwhelming at times. Do loud noises bother you/make you anxious? Do you like large crowds? If not, why?


According to my mother (IxFP), which is super-sensitive, i lack empathy. I'm not a people-pleaser, nor altruist; however, i can relate to people's emotions, but only if the given situation isn't personal (like a fight or something), so i can be objective; or if they feel what i feel/ felt (yup, i'm more Fi than Fe).
I find most of noises really disturbing, not only the loud ones. Large crowds make me feel claustrophobic- for example, when i'm in the club, and sometimes feel that other bodies colides with mine, i get annoyed and try to subtly use my elbows _(as a dance move, of course)_ to make people stop bumping into me. Sounds bad, i know, but it helps- they don't realize that i push them away with my elbows on purpose, but they dance in their space, i dance in mine, everyone's happy.


> This test might be helpful: Cognitive Function Test


I took this test few times before, but i repeated it now and here is a result:
Ne-49%
Ni-87%
Se-32%
Si-16%
Te-50%
Ti-56%
Fe-24%
Fi-50%

I have no idea why i scored so low in Ne- it usually was on a stronger position than both types of thinking.



Xen23 said:


> From reading your posts, the ponderous, no-frills but incisive manner in which you write at least, suggests INTx.
> Please TiC that MBTI, like any system, isn't perfect.
> 
> And with functions, my example is I use Ne>Ti>Si>Fi o.o when my MBTI type suggests Ne>Ti>Fe>Si
> ...


From what you said i would say INTJ; INTP rather aren't that competitive (or it's another shitty stereotype). 
That's funny, i'm not a typical INTx geek, and my interests are oftenly equated with NF types (art, literature, languages, psychology, philosophy).

BTW The way i write may be influenced by the fact that english isn't my first language XD

Oh, yet another test that i took some time ago, but i can do it again. Results:

Te (Extroverted Thinking) (55%) 
your valuation of / adherence to logic of external systems / hierarchies / methods

Ti (Introverted Thinking) (60%) 
your valuation of / adherence to your own internally devised logic/rational

Ne (Extroverted Intuition) (75%) 
your valuation of / tendency towards free association and creating with external stimuli

Ni (Introverted Intuition) (90%) 
your valuation of / tendency towards internal/original free association and creativity

Se (Extroverted Sensing) (25%) 
your valuation of / tendency to fully experience the world unfiltered, in the moment

Si (Introverted Sensing) (35%) 
your valuation of / focus on internal sensations and reliving past moments

Fe (Extroverted Feeling) (35%) 
your valuation of / adherence to external morals, ethics, traditions, customs, groups

Fi (Introverted Feeling) (55%) 
your valuation of / adherence to the sanctity of your own feelings / ideals / sentiment


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

Yenna said:


> My pro's are about what's reasonable, what can bring more benefits (or less harm), what i consider right. So, more like pragmatism- but it depends on the situation.
> 
> According to my mother (IxFP), which is super-sensitive, i lack empathy. I'm not a people-pleaser, nor altruist; however, i can relate to people's emotions, but only if the given situation isn't personal (like a fight or something), so i can be objective; or if they feel what i feel/ felt (yup, i'm more Fi than Fe).
> I find most of noises really disturbing, not only the loud ones. Large crowds make me feel claustrophobic- for example, when i'm in the club, and sometimes feel that other bodies colides with mine, i get annoyed and try to subtly use my elbows _(as a dance move, of course)_ to make people stop bumping into me. Sounds bad, i know, but it helps- they don't realize that i push them away with my elbows on purpose, but they dance in their space, i dance in mine, everyone's happy.
> ...



Looks like INTJ as 'best fit' TBF. That's a silly high Ni compared to your other functions. You say Ne has been higher on prior tests?

-Fe Ti Te seem close to call.

Fi as dominant function:

INTJ or INFJ

*Remember it's 'best fit', there's no Ni>Ti>Fi>Se type 
-Just like there's no such a thing as Ne>Ti>Si>Fi as a type for me (I'd say I'm definitely an ENTP, but with a few INTP characteristics thrown in)

However INTJ is Ni>Te>Fi>Se. That's most likely you, since the order and everything else apart from Ti fits very well.
Also Te/Ti is a close call for you anyway.

Since Fe is so low, doubt you're INFJ. You say you're less of a feeler anyway.

After reading your previous posts in conjunction with test results, I'd put money on you being *INTJ.*


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Stawker said:


> Ex nihilo nihil fit. If you have an insight, you can in fact explain it given sufficient reasoning capacities. Otherwise Ni would be no more than witchcraft. My insights do seem to come out of 'thin air' but almost always I can explain exactly what made me suddenly see them. I can always diagnose that one vital piece of information that I was missing, or was neglecting so far.
> 
> Good luck with the typing.


I can come up with many explanations- as i said before, i'm not a fairy  but i usually don't see those explanations as evidences, because some of my observations/ analysis could lead to other, more or less probable conclusions.
Thanks.



Xen23 said:


> Looks like INTJ as 'best fit' TBF. That's a silly high Ni compared to your other functions. You say Ne has been higher on prior tests?
> 
> -Fe Ti Te seem close to call.
> 
> ...


Yup. Ne was not so low in comparison to Ni, from what i remember. 
This makes me wonder, if my answers aren't influenced by my knowledge about functions (because those tests let you conclude which question is related with which function). 
I took your test too (my previous post), and results are similar.


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

Yenna said:


> Yup. Ne was not so low in comparison to Ni, from what i remember.
> This makes me wonder, if my answers aren't influenced by my knowledge about functions (because those tests let you conclude which question is related with which function).
> I took your test too (my previous post), and results are similar.


Also if you're wondering if you're ENTP, like I read in some other thread of yours (don't know you, haven't seen loads of other test samples of yours LOL), I'm one, but I have a very strong Ne/Ti (both range between 80-100%) so I might be more of a stereotype than a dilute variety...
It's highly likely that whatever you are (the evidence suggests INTJ), because of ambiguous results and perhaps traits in your own behaviour that you've noticed, it's a dilute form so might not fit a stereotype as well.


*
ENTP is like: *









and










also










and










this too










 I'll do an INTJ cartoon list too, an image speaks 1000 words after all


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

INTJ cartoon

INTJ is like:










and










They're interested in techno Darwinism and perhaps programming it:










Enjoy doing this more than meeting people:


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Xen23 said:


> INTJ cartoon
> 
> INTJ is like:
> 
> ...


Thanks Xen, you're great 
As a child, i was 100% tiger from Winnie the Pooh. Now i'm somewhere between the first ENTP gif and the last one from INTJ gifs- but it depends on what people we are talking about.


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

Yenna said:


> Thanks Xen, you're great
> As a child, i was 100% tiger from Winnie the Pooh. Now i'm somewhere between the first ENTP gif and the last one from INTJ gifs- but it depends on what people we are talking about.


ENTP and INTJ are quite...
Let me rephrase that...
_Radically _different:

Are you experimental, bubbly, and a bit hyper with a streak of 'naughtiness', or calm, studious and rational with a streak of 'I want to win!' 
Do you get bored easily or can you 'go the distance'?
Do you prefer outdoor or indoors?

It's harder to type my bro since INTP and INTJ are behaviourally similar (both nerdy and introverted).

The difference between ENTP and INTJ isn't so subtle. Introvert and Extrovert personalities are polar opposites in some ways.

You must have met or know eccentric people who just start talking to you about the escape velocity required to leave the orbit of Betelgeuse or something for no reason. That's ENTP. Literally the mad professor.
Dark side of ENTP is pretty much trolling and playing mind games  (+we're always suspicious of others)

INTJ don't bother people like that. My last BF was one, and he's actually literally an architect xD with a hobby of theoretical aeronautics. He's startlingly intelligent, focussed and very career minded, but shy and withdrawn.
Dark side of INTJ is they can be arrogant and judgemental.

Both these types are pretty rare in the wild (although forums tend to over-represent I and NT types for fairly obvious reasons).
Both types are also jack-of-all-trades people inasmuch as we have 74986787098 hobbies and are always multitasking 

Like I said, you might be a dilute version.
You have the evidence now, you have the facts, you know yourself.
Be honest with yourself about who you really are and not how you want others to perceive you. 

_Polonius: This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man. (-Hamlet, William Shakespeare)_

Here, you might like to read up unless you already did:

https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

@Yenna


> My pro's are about what's reasonable, what can bring more benefits (or less harm), what i consider right. So, more like pragmatism- but it depends on the situation.


That's very Te. Te is efficiency.

First test in order:
*Ni-87%*
_Ti-56%_
*Te-50%
Fi-50%*
_Ne-49%_
*Se-32%*
Fe-24%
Si-16%

So first group would be *INTJ*, second one would be _INTP_ but Fe and Si are reversed.

Second test in order:
*Ni (90%) *
Ne (75%)
Ti (60%)
*Te (55%)
Fi (55%)*
Si (35%)
Fe (35%)
*Se (25%)*

First group is still *INTJ*, second group is ENTP but Si and Fe are reversed. 
It explains why you hesitate between those three types but I'm still going with INTJ because your gut answers aren't typical INTP or ENTP answers. Plus the percentages you get for ENTP or INTP's 3rd and 4th functions (Fe and Si) would make a very unhealthy version of both of those types. 
You also describe well a low Se here:



> I find most of noises really disturbing, not only the loud ones. Large crowds make me feel claustrophobic- for example, when i'm in the club, and sometimes feel that other bodies collides with mine, i get annoyed and try to subtly use my elbows to make people stop bumping into me. Sounds bad, i know, but it helps- they don't realize that i push them away with my elbows on purpose, but they dance in their space, i dance in mine, everyone's happy.





> According to my mother (IxFP), which is super-sensitive, i lack empathy. I'm not a people-pleaser, nor altruist; however, i can relate to people's emotions, but only if the given situation isn't personal (like a fight or something), so i can be objective; or if they feel what i feel/felt.


Previous quote plus this one suggest Fi in 3th more than Fe in 4th.
Added with a high Te, it sounds like INTJ to me.
Plus your interest in art, literature, languages, psychology and philosophy would make sense, because that's more a Ni type of interest. INTPs and ENTPs need something that'll stimulate their Ne more than that, that's why they're usually into programming, engineering (or entertainment for ENTPs.)


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

Mr. Castelo said:


> But you have to prefer one over another, right? Try thinking about the one you use the most, or the one that feels more natural to you.


No, not really. For instance, I saw a book title in the science writing section of a bookstore called "The Rational Optimist" where the author was making an argument that the Internet and automated cars and bioengineering etc. are going to bring about a Star Trek utopia, and he was in absolute bliss at the realization. I wanted to vandalize the title to read "The Technology Evangelist". Am I a feeler because I recognize and respond to his personal biases first, evaluating his message as duplicitous between the lines, or am I a Thinker because I devalued his book due to the emphasis on emotional appeals? It is confusing.

Sorry to take this offtopic, carry on.


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## vhaydenlv (May 3, 2017)

Squirt said:


> Am I a feeler because I recognize and respond to his personal biases first, evaluating his message as duplicitous between the lines, or am I a Thinker because I devalued his book due to the emphasis on emotional appeals? It is confusing.


I think it's both a T response because you're not reacting to his emotions per se, you're reacting to his "personal biases" so potential errors in his logic caused by emotions.

But do you think you might be a Feeler?


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Xen23 said:


> ENTP and INTJ are quite...
> Let me rephrase that...
> _Radically _different:
> 
> Are you *experimental,* bubbly, and *a bit hyper *with *a streak of 'naughtiness'*, or calm, studious and *rational* with a streak of *'I want to win!*'


Red ones- 100% me.
Bolded ones- sometimes me.



> Do you get bored easily or can you 'go the distance'?


Depends. I get bored easily, but if we talk about something that fascinates me, is important to me, or can bring me benefits- i'll go the distance.


> Do you prefer outdoor or indoors?


Indoors.



> It's harder to type my bro since INTP and INTJ are behaviourally similar (both nerdy and introverted).
> 
> The difference between ENTP and INTJ isn't so subtle. Introvert and Extrovert personalities are polar opposites in some ways.
> 
> ...


I can randomly talk about my theories only to the people i feel comfortable with.
Trolling- i don't do that often, only from time to time.


> INTJ don't bother people like that. My last BF was one, and he's actually literally an architect xD with a hobby of theoretical aeronautics. He's startlingly intelligent, focussed and very career minded, but shy and withdrawn.
> Dark side of INTJ is they can be arrogant and judgemental.


I'm rather career minded. I definitely can be arrogant and judgemental at my worse.



> Both these types are pretty rare in the wild (although forums tend to over-represent I and NT types for fairly obvious reasons).
> Both types are also jack-of-all-trades people inasmuch as we have 74986787098 hobbies and are always multitasking
> 
> Like I said, you might be a dilute version.
> ...


Thank you for all the tips!


vhaydenlv said:


> @Yenna
> That's very Te. Te is efficiency.
> 
> First test in order:
> ...


Thanks for the acute explanation!


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

@Yenna

Ne likes to daisy chain and link different ideas and create *ideas out of ideas*..

_For example: it would jump from feather to chicken to crossing the street to jokes to comedians to Jerry Seinfeld to soup to Nazis to Schindler’s List… and spread forever outwards_

*the ENTP is gonna be natural at this kinda thinking.*

Ni likes to create multiple interpretations out of one idea and look at *one idea from different angles*.

_For example: A feather grows out of birds so Ni might recall a chicken. Or the physical features of the feather might bring to mind a particular type of bird that holds some meaning from past experience. A feather can also bring up a disparate memory about being tickled in the tummy or… placing a feather in one’s cap/hat or… tickling a person’s nose to cause them to sneeze or… using it as a quill to write or… its significance to Native Americans, etc. A feather can also recall past images like in the movie Forrest Gump where a feather features prominently in the beginning and end of the movie; metaphorically, a feather can symbolize freedom or the ability to escape from current/difficult circumstances. _

*the INTJ is gonna be natural at this kinda thinking.*


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

spaceynyc said:


> @Yenna
> 
> Ne likes to daisy chain and link different ideas and create *ideas out of ideas*..
> 
> ...


I can do both, but i would accede to nr 2. Looking at one idea from different angles- this is what i usually do.


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## Xen23 (May 18, 2017)

@Yenna Just a trivial update: saw my brother last night, confirm he's INTJ  So you'd be in good company if you go for that option (he's super-smart, super focussed and perhaps my favorite person)


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## Yenna (May 27, 2017)

Xen23 said:


> @Yenna Just a trivial update: saw my brother last night, confirm he's INTJ  So you'd be in good company if you go for that option (he's super-smart, super focussed and perhaps my favorite person)


Cool! I'm happy that he found his type _(And i'm glad that i was right about it :> )_ Yeah, i'm probably in the same group- but i need time to think and do my research to be 100% sure.


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