# Socio IEI and MBTI INFJ differences / Socio ILE and MBTI ENTP differences[???]



## Azazel (May 27, 2016)

Don't know if it goes there. But, anyways(If don't, SORRY).

I think the title speaks itself. I'm pretty confused. I've read some descriptions and, those doesn't seem to go far from MBTI, so, I guess is better to know what are the difference between those.

Thanks for your help.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Welll...for starters, there is the mental/vital dichotomy. MBTI INFJ is Ni-Fe-Ti-Se. Socionics IEI, however is more complicated.

Mental functions are 1234. These are conscious, and vary with social experience. Learning and changing within these is thus easier, can be communicated to you socially.
Vital functions are 5678. These are unconscious, varying only with personal experience. Learning and changing these can be more difficult as a result, for better or for worse.

Strong functions are 1278. These functions are capable and show through when talking to the person. This is also what is apparent about a person on the surface that makes it possible to type by dichotomy in MBTI, in my opinion.
Weak functions are 3456. These functions are less capable, and are apparent weaknesses you can see when you get to know the person.

Valued functions are the same four functions the type "has" in MBTI, and are functions 1256.
Devalued functions are the four functions the type lacks in MBTI, and are functions 3478.

So what does this all mean?

We can divide the functions up into blocks of 2.

*Ego functions* are Strong, Mental, and Valued. They are the bread and butter of the type. These are the first two functions, and their use is effortless almost. For IEI this would be Ni and Fe, for ILE this would be Ne and Ti.
*Super-Ego functions* are Weak, Mental, and Unvalued. They are thus the weaknesses of the type, and are painful for them because they are Mental. The type is aware of their deficiency in these functions, often seeking to self protect against harm or criticism in these areas.
*Super-Id functions* are Weak, Vital, and Valued. They are the unconscious desire of the type, what the type lacks but wishes they had. Because of this, those who have these functions in Ego are naturally attractive to the type. The type also tends to overestimate their abilities with Super-Id functions, particularly for the Hidden Agenda function. I think that is function number 5, but I may be misremembering, in which case it would be 6.
*Id functions* are Strong, Vital, and Unvalued. They are the unconsciously powerful portions of the psyche, sort of like unconscious assumptions about the world. They show through and strongly affect worldview, but their use is hidden and suppressed in favor of the use of Egoic and Super-id functions.

The core difference, then. I'll show in ILE.

MBTI ENTP is Ne-Ti-Fe-Si.
Socionics ILE is
Ego: Ne Ti
Super-Ego: Se Fi
Super-Id: Fe Si
Id: Te Ni

OK, this will be heavily simplified. Here we have a type with powerful and directed conscious use of Ne and Ti that easily adapts and learns according to social experience. We have painful Se and Fi, with Fi being the weaker of the two, and so ILE struggles to develop and maintain positive relations despite consciously being aware of a lack of skill at doing so. We have a powerful drive to embody Fe and to seek help with Si, with help appreciated on both counts but particularly Si. And we have powerful but unconscious use of Te and Ni, with Te being particularly apparent and just as powerful as Ne (but because it is unconscious it lacks some flexibility that the ILE's Ne would have)

The Base function is the strongest Mental function. Ne for ILE. We refer to its capability as Four dimensional or 4D, meaning it varies according to input by social experience, social norms, situational elements, and temporal elements. It can understand and handle Ne type information in every sphere.
The Creative function is the second strongest Mental function. It varies much like Base, but does not vary on the sphere of temporal information. It is more situational, and is Creatively applied (haha). This level of ability is called 3 dimensional.
The Role function is seen as a personal weakness in need of improvement but ultimately boring. It is 2 dimensional, as it lacks variance on situation. This function tends to be apparent in that it references norms a lot but doesn't have flexibility or imagination on its own, usually.
The Vulnerable or PoLR function is the 1 Dimensional Mental function. More on that below.
The Demonstrative function is the strongest Vital function. It is as capable as the Base function except that it varies on Individual Experience and not Social. My own interpretation of what that means is that it tends to be more set in its ways, more hardheaded. You can't tell someone something about how to use their Demonstrative and expect them to readily change. Its the unconscious and resistant portion of the psyche. It, too, is 4 dimensional, with experience being personal rather than social for it and all Vital functions.
The Ignoring function is the opposite of the Base function in the introvert or extrovert attitude. Therefore Ne doms would have Ni Ignoring. This function varies on 3 dimensions (lacking temporal variance), which leads to a kind of short sightedness and boredom with this function. The Ignoring is not engaged for long because it is seen as boring or even superfluous to the experience of the world with the Base function. For ILE, this means they tend to ignore or overlook Ni information in favor of Ne elements.
The Hidden Agenda is the Vital 2 dimensional function. More on that below.
The...Suggestive? (I think that's the name; its more often referred to as Dual Seeking) function is the Vital 1 dimensional function. It varies only on personal experience, and so lacks ability to adapt to social norms even when frequently corrected. It takes a lot of hard work to develop the dual seeking function, and that is why help on the use of this function is often appreciated. It also plays a role in intertype relations and the seeking of a mate.

The placement of Fe in this stack is important, as it is the Hidden Agenda. The HA is a function the type strongly wishes to embody, and seeks to develop. HA influence tends to lead to self mistypes. I was no different. For Fe, this tends to lead to a strong desire to "Be loved", and thus ILE seeks to curry the favor or affection or love or whatever (through whatever means the ILE has learned works by Individual experience and Norms of society) of people. Fe, being situational, means this takes a more in the moment kind of approach rather than a systematic approach. And good times were had by all.

The placement of Fi in this stack is important, as that is the Point of Least Resistance. The weakest part of the psyche. A description of what Fi PoLR looks like I took from a post by @To_august:

"ILE and SLE (Fi PoLR) feel very uncomfortable in a situation that forces them:
- To openly express their attitude to other people or to something in general at all;
- To describe their relationships, to give an ethical evaluation concerning events;
- To be diplomatic, indulgent, good-natured and sympathetic;
- To say honestly what they really think and feel."

So, to sum up ILE. Base Ne, Creative Ti, Role Se, PoLR Fi are all conscious and used (or avoided) on purpose. All of this is consciously processed. Hidden Agenda Fe, Dual Seeking Si, Ignoring Ni, Demonstrative Te all happens unconsciously. The Fe and Si may become conscious over time according to some, due to a process called "Dualization" that is essentially healthy personal development.

IEI extrapolation here. Same logic, different functions. Base Ni, Creative Fe, Role Si, PoLR Te, Hidden Agenda Ti, Dual Seeking Se, Ignoring Ne, Demonstrative Fi.

Note that the whole INFP or INFJ debate takes a different tack here because of this. MBTI INFJ is NiFeTiSe, MBTI INFP is FiNeSiTe. But in Socionics, INFJ uses Si and Te consciously and INFP uses Ti and Se consciously. The two reverse the mental/vital dichotomies. For this reason, sometimes when you are one type in MBTI dichotomy testing, you may not be the same type in Socionics. It has different rules.

Finally, do note that the Socionics Information Elements have different definitions in Socionics than in MBTI. For example, MBTI asserts that Ni is always unconscious. Socionics does not; Ni is conscious for IEI but same strength while unconscious for EII. So the people you check up on may fit a different type better in Socionics than they do in MBTI.


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## Azazel (May 27, 2016)

Pretty useful. Thanks, I think for now I must look for differences between both functions(MBTI/Socio), but for the rest I have it much more clear now.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Sve said:


> Don't know if it goes there. But, anyways(If don't, SORRY).
> 
> I think the title speaks itself. I'm pretty confused. I've read some descriptions and, those doesn't seem to go far from MBTI, so, I guess is better to know what are the difference between those.
> 
> Thanks for your help.


The group of people whose best fit type is IEI, is identical to the group of people whose best fit type is INFJ (mbti).

However, the descriptions of the models and functions/IM elements differ in Socionics and MBTI. You either choose one theory or you cherry-pick the best parts from both theories.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

IEI:

Ni Fe
Te Si
------
Ti Se
Ne Fi









ILE:

Ne Ti
Fi Se
------
Fe Si
Ni Te


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## Engelsstaub (Apr 8, 2016)

MBTI uses no functions in typing, only dichotomies. At least this is what I understand from what @reckful has written in his multiple posts.

Function stacks are different, separate from official MBTI, and the definitions of functions in socionics seem to differ too.

Socionics is based on functions and types people differently. Also what I have read is that socionics introtim is a different term from introvert. Same of course about extroverts.

At least this is what I concluded from reading about socionics, model A (and a bit G), while typing myself.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Engelsstaub said:


> MBTI uses no functions in typing, only dichotomies. At least this is what I understand from what @*reckful* has written in his multiple posts.
> 
> Function stacks are different, separate from official MBTI, and the definitions of functions in socionics seem to differ too.
> 
> ...


If we are strictly referring to the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator then Reckful is right. (But he is wrong about the importance of a model... we need one, no doubt).


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