# Dating troubled partners...



## CountZero (Sep 28, 2012)

I most often find myself in relationships with 'troubled' women. This very frequently involves some kind of traumatic past, mental illness, or both. Given my past, that could be considered appropriate. Yet someone with a more normal background doesn't seem particularly appealing either. There doesn't seem to be much shared experience, as well as a different outlook on life, and an expectation that life is fair when it quite frequently is not. 

These kinds of relationships are often difficult, yet also sometimes very rewarding. Even so I wonder if these choices are making life way more difficult than need be. At the same time, I have sincere doubts that I would be very appealing to someone with a 'normal' past, outlook and goals.

Am I fool for falling for such women? Making my life more difficult than it should be? Is it simply a case of 'birds of a feather flock together'? Should I at least try to make myself appealing to a broader class of people, or should I just stay in my lane?


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

CountZero said:


> Am I fool for falling for such women? Making my life more difficult than it should be? Is it simply a case of 'birds of a feather flock together'? Should I at least try to make myself appealing to a broader class of people, or should I just stay in my lane?


Not a fool, but you should probably think more about why these women appeal to you. You could be making your life more difficult than it should be. What is this lane you're talking about? You have a choice in who to be with, don't sell yourself short just because you're insecure or have similar experiences of your own. It really depends on the individual. If they're fully aware of their "troubles" and want to deal with them, make things work for them to live the best life possible, then that's not an issue or hindrance to getting involved with them. You can provide comfort and support. But if they're not invested in themselves, and you or they are mistakenly taking the relationship as some kind of a fix to problems, then don't do it, life is difficult enough.


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## CountZero (Sep 28, 2012)

It's not just insecurity, or a lack of social graces. It's also about mutual understanding. Someone who has had a reasonably normal life isn't going to understand, or be very forgiving, of the quirks and neuroses that come with a difficult past. Likely they won't comprehend those sorts of difficulties, or be dismissive or outright cruel. Someone who has had some personal experience in that realm is likely to more tolerant and forgiving of these things than someone who hasn't experienced them. But at the same time, such people also have their own share of burdens that can make being or living with them difficult.

So which is better? Comprehension and possible empathy, along with the attendant landmines, or being with someone who doesn't entirely get you and can be unsympathetic?


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

The troubled ones might seem safer, but there are no guarantees either way. If you have a multitude of people to choose from, then any one of them can be good relationship material regardless of how "normal" or "troubled" they are. No point in limiting yourself with only one particular segment.


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## SirCanSir (Mar 21, 2018)

CountZero said:


> I most often find myself in relationships with 'troubled' women. This very frequently involves some kind of traumatic past, mental illness, or both. Given my past, that could be considered appropriate. Yet someone with a more normal background doesn't seem particularly appealing either. There doesn't seem to be much shared experience, as well as a different outlook on life, and an expectation that life is fair when it quite frequently is not.
> 
> These kinds of relationships are often difficult, yet also sometimes very rewarding. Even so I wonder if these choices are making life way more difficult than need be. At the same time, I have sincere doubts that I would be very appealing to someone with a 'normal' past, outlook and goals.
> 
> Am I fool for falling for such women? Making my life more difficult than it should be? Is it simply a case of 'birds of a feather flock together'? Should I at least try to make myself appealing to a broader class of people, or should I just stay in my lane?


Im uncertain about how to reply to you since all this is too relatable. It just took me too long to realize that my own past was partly the cause. I had some serious awareness issues because of mental blocks until recently. Prior to that i used to summarize it as... seeking authenticity, progressive women who stand out and dont go with the flow/dont care as much for social acceptance, passion, emotional depth, companionship to work towards self improvement and a strong connection. But i guess if you dont relate to someone in some way or atleast if you dont value the same things you wont be much interested. So it may feel rewarding because of that.

That said im unsure personally about what to do regarding that. I dont think its healthy to minimize the dating pool just to find "troubled women". Ideally id rather find someone healthy who has moved on from those issues and are more stable/aware about what they want in life. I wonder if i could have that intimacy with someone coming from an entirely normal and more social background though.
Maybe im just used to this type of women and i dont really need it as much as i think.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

You might need therapy. I spent a long time dealing with trash women with pretty faces because that was essentially what I thought of myself and hence the way I treated myself.

Are you properly taking care of yourself? How much time and resources do you dedicate to your hygiene and fitness? If it's less than 1 hour a day, you have a problem.

What's your appearance like? How much time and resources do you dedicate to looking and smelling like a boss? If it's less than 15 minutes a day, you likely have a problem.

What is your home like? How much time and resources do you dedicate to keeping your space clean and comfortable? If you're not putting in twice the effort a woman would put in, you have a problem. Us guys are nasty. We don't have the same sense of smell or eye for detail that women do.

The more I improved in the aforementioned areas, the more I forgave myself and the more I began to enjoy the company of good women. I honestly never imagined there would be a day where I could live without crazy bitches in my life, and yet here I am happier than ever, and not one crazy bitch in sight.


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## CountZero (Sep 28, 2012)

@ENFPathetic I'm pretty sure you're offering sincere advice, so please don't take offense at what I'm about to say. I've always considered "looking and smelling like a boss" to be rather shallow and meaningless. Do I want someone to love me for my fashion sense, or the quality of my character and mind? That said, I'm starting to understand that ignoring your appearance can actually be _insulting_ to others - "You mean I'm not good enough to bother putting on a decent shirt for?" But at some level I still recoil at trying to look like Justin Timberlake, and I've always approached clothing as camouflage rather than a bold statement of personality.

The other issue for me is energy level. When I get home from work, I'm exhausted. When I wake up in the morning, I'm groggy, confused and disoriented. Neither is conducive to a gym regimen, or extended personal grooming sessions. That said, even a bit of investment would definitely "up my game."

Sorry if this reply was rambling. I'm indulging in stream-of-consciousness to explore the notion of improving my disheveled, plain appearance. And thanks for the heartfelt advice; I'm sure it's worked well for you, though I have to evaluate whether I could even pull it off.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

CountZero said:


> @ENFPathetic I'm pretty sure you're offering sincere advice, so please don't take offense at what I'm about to say. I've always considered "looking and smelling like a boss" to be rather shallow and meaningless. Do I want someone to love me for my fashion sense, or the quality of my character and mind? That said, I'm starting to understand that ignoring your appearance can actually be _insulting_ to others - "You mean I'm not good enough to bother putting on a decent shirt for?" But at some level I still recoil at trying to look like Justin Timberlake, and I've always approached clothing as camouflage rather than a bold statement of personality.


I don't see any disrespect in what you've expressed. No problems here.

I can relate to that sentiment. For the longest time I didn't really care about my image or reputation because it felt shallow and I didn't want to bend to the common will. Even as I got older and the benefits made more and more sense, I resisted out of stubbornness. However, it's not about looking and smelling good so people can talk about how fine you are or how good you smell. It's about how showing yourself that love and care. How people treat you as a result is more of a bonus than anything. Think about the difference you feel after getting a nice haircut. Forget about what anyone else has to say on it. Doesn't it just feel good? There aren't a million ways to show your body some love, and wearing something that looks good and smells nice is one of those ways.



CountZero said:


> The other issue for me is energy level. When I get home from work, I'm exhausted. When I wake up in the morning, I'm groggy, confused and disoriented. Neither is conducive to a gym regimen, or extended personal grooming sessions. That said, even a bit of investment would definitely "up my game."


I know it sounds backwards, but hitting the gym actually gives you more energy. Having said that, I get the whole having low energy thing comes with low motivation. You can do a little and build from there. You can start out with a 5 minute shower every morning and a brisk walk in the evening.



CountZero said:


> Sorry if this reply was rambling. I'm indulging in stream-of-consciousness to explore the notion of improving my disheveled, plain appearance. And thanks for the heartfelt advice; I'm sure it's worked well for you, though I have to evaluate whether I could even pull it off.


As a ENFP, I have a tendency to ramble myself. Not a problem.

You can definitely pull it off. It's not complicated. The trick is to stop thinking and put one foot in front of the other. Try it. It's not easy at first, but once you get rolling, it can be pretty liberating.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

CountZero said:


> I most often find myself in relationships with 'troubled' women. This very frequently involves some kind of traumatic past, mental illness, or both. Given my past, that could be considered appropriate. Yet someone with a more normal background doesn't seem particularly appealing either. There doesn't seem to be much shared experience, as well as a different outlook on life, and an expectation that life is fair when it quite frequently is not.
> 
> These kinds of relationships are often difficult, yet also sometimes very rewarding. Even so I wonder if these choices are making life way more difficult than need be. At the same time, I have sincere doubts that I would be very appealing to someone with a 'normal' past, outlook and goals.
> 
> Am I fool for falling for such women? Making my life more difficult than it should be? Is it simply a case of 'birds of a feather flock together'? Should I at least try to make myself appealing to a broader class of people, or should I just stay in my lane?


You may just have a desire to be seen as a "savior/rescuer/knight-in-shining-armor" type to these women, plus, there's the _stereotype._ 


* *




_Stereotype_: Crazy women are thought to be hypersexual (nymphomaniacs even).


 









Men are drawn to borderline personality traits in physically attractive women, study finds


Those with borderline personality disorder have problems regulating emotional impulses and often experience rocky relationships. But new research suggests ...



www.psypost.org













When it comes to mental health, like attracts like


A study published in JAMA Psychiatry this week sheds light on the influence of psychiatric disorders on relationships and mating.




theconversation.com













The Men Who Fetishize Mentally Ill Women


What do you do when you find yourself trapped with a partner who thinks your illness is the hottest thing about you?




www.vice.com













Why We Are Attracted to Deviant Personalities


New research finds that heterosexual people with pathological personalities have better success finding mates




www.scientificamerican.com


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## CountZero (Sep 28, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> You may just have a desire to be seen as a "savior/rescuer/knight-in-shining-armor" type to these women


There is *definitely *some of this, and not so much of the other. I wrote something a while back about kindness and compassion, though it also applies to helping others in a more concrete sense. It's entirely possible I carry this too far, at least when it comes to these sorts of women.

Warning, long read ahead...



> Let’s face it, we live in a crapsack world. Though isolated pockets of contentment exist, the universe is a hostile, callous and indifferent place. Too often we are swept up by forces we have no control over, leading to a miasma of helplessness. The young and powerless are disproportionately affected by such events, exploited, ignored and even reviled. After suffering devastating loss and at the hands of a cruel and uncaring world, how does one regain a sense of agency in the face of such crushing power? In a word, kindness.
> 
> Compassion restores a sense of being able to affect the world on several levels. Firstly, it is an act of subversion in the face of a world that wants and expects us to play by its rules and exploit others. It also reassures us that we don’t have to accept the status quo, and we can defy the unspoken expectation of ruthlessness. While many people give lip service to kindness and service, hypocrisy abounds. By showing others that it is possible and self-affirming to practice true kindness, you make it easier for them to do likewise.
> 
> ...


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

CountZero said:


> There is *definitely *some of this, and not so much of the other. I wrote something a while back about kindness and compassion, though it also applies to helping others in a more concrete sense. It's entirely possible I carry this too far, at least when it comes to these sorts of women.
> 
> Warning, long read ahead...


I consider some of your original post relatable. I call them projects now.(I did not realize when I was younger) I will try to help these people but, not on a romantic level. It can turn into an emotional vampire situation if you are not careful. On the other hand... ones that have gone/grown through the experiences and do not make others responsible for it are date worthy imo

No one is perfectly balanced but, it does help when you can have a relatable relationship. Everyone has had their own struggles and some just think everything is a struggle. Having the struggles and standing on your own without bitterness is a plus.

A good core person is what your objective should be. All the rest is just layers.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

Perhaps look into your own troubled past and the women you're attracted to, to see if there are commonalities in situations. A possibility is that there's something you need to fix in your own past, that makes you want to reinvent similar dynamics so you can correct it. Are these troubled women similar to a person or people you had problems with, during your own traumatic past? Typology might help to identify this by typing the person/people you had problems with and the troubled women you're attracted to.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

When I was a teenager, I had this thing too. But I think it was because I liked maturity and ... there was a better chance you would find it in someone "troubled". At least that's how it was for me. I don't know exactly.

To me most often there were girls with divorced parents (who no longer got along well with them and they represented the child who was caught in a conflict in which she wants to get along well with both parents but that was a struggle because she had to choose one instead of the other). 
My parents didn't divorce. 

Or maybe it was a little "savior complex", who knows. The truth is that I liked to offer advice, support and to know that I was useful. But I didn't want to save anyone from anything.


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## cynfalyn (Jan 24, 2021)

CountZero said:


> I most often find myself in relationships with 'troubled' women. This very frequently involves some kind of traumatic past, mental illness, or both. Given my past, that could be considered appropriate. Yet someone with a more normal background doesn't seem particularly appealing either. There doesn't seem to be much shared experience, as well as a different outlook on life, and an expectation that life is fair when it quite frequently is not.
> 
> These kinds of relationships are often difficult, yet also sometimes very rewarding. Even so I wonder if these choices are making life way more difficult than need be. At the same time, I have sincere doubts that I would be very appealing to someone with a 'normal' past, outlook and goals.
> 
> Am I fool for falling for such women? Making my life more difficult than it should be? Is it simply a case of 'birds of a feather flock together'? Should I at least try to make myself appealing to a broader class of people, or should I just stay in my lane?


Sadly, we are the "healer" type and people who are messed up in the head are drawn to us. One thing, you can't fix someone else. I actually sensed that I needed to break up with a sick guy before we got married. I did break up with him, which would have been one the smartest things I ever did...but alas, he used my empathy to drag me back in. Don't ever connect with somone because you feel sorry for them. You will pay and pay for that. I think he was a psychopath, and I was married to him for many many years before I understood that. Good luck from a fellow INFP


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

I could have written the original post. I had to spend a day thinking about it.

I don't think I want to rescue anyone. In my case I think it's more about opportunity and (as mentioned above) relatability. My pool of availables comprises mostly poor people, who have fallen on hard times for a variety of reasons. Most normal people will judge me harshly, or decide that I don't fit into their lifestyle.

Another reason is that people with an interesting past or outlook can be, well, more interesting.

Anyway, many people with seemingly normal, successful lives can turn out to be something else once you get to know them: sneaky, dishonorable, stupid, or whatever. They are troubled (in my opinion), but their resources or personality allow them to put up a good front. 

It is possible to meet a relatively sane and open-minded person, but it's rare.


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## CountZero (Sep 28, 2012)

@islandlight Though I went off on a tangent about kindness and helping others, relatability is one of the major attractions of that sort of person. Someone who's had a troubled life will be both easier to relate to, and will usually have an easier time relating to me, than a person who's had an untroubled life.


islandlight said:


> Anyway, many people with seemingly normal, successful lives can turn out to be something else once you get to know them: sneaky, dishonorable, stupid, or whatever. They are troubled (in my opinion), but their resources or personality allow them to put up a good front.


As an introvert, I don't usually get to know many people deep enough to get past their mask. But I have friends who have known wealthy people, and it sounds like they frequently use their 'resources', as you put it, to hide various sorts of dark, unsavory behaviors. Despite preferring ladies who have had troubled pasts, I will not let anyone into my life who is outright cruel.


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

as a very young adult, i clearly remember taking the 'adversity builds character' idea at literal face value. i was also extraordinarily young. even on my own account, i hadn't yet had the opportunity to understand that the usefulness of having a 'strong' character is limited in much of non-frontline life anyway. most of non-frontline life doesn't _require_ huge amounts of psychological muscle.

in other words, i used my own response to the events of my own life as a yardstick, and i honestly had no idea that adversity can stunt a person's character and warp their perceptions, just as easily as it can build their character and give them more depth. so i did have certain assumptions in place. i won't say i went looking for people with unusual backgrounds, but i do know i had no built-in wariness about someone else who had one.

eta for disclosure: thinking back, i also now recall that i was very lonely. it wasn't really about active stigma. my adversities were more the kind that seem sort of romantic and attentionworthy, at first glance [especially in the more innocent 1980's]. but as experienced they were not romantic; they were just facts. and there just wasn't anyone else in my age group who had similar facts. 

i think that was a factor. but i'm kind of a crappy yardstick for other people because emigration and culture shock puts such a huge faultline through so many of my experiences. you can't look at anything i say about my own life without factoring for that disconnect.


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

CountZero said:


> Someone who's had a troubled life will be both easier to relate to, and will usually have an easier time relating to me, than a person who's had an untroubled life.


I find that it's difficult to really, fully, relate to or understand anybody's experiences on a significant and deep level. Even with all the empathy in the world it's still only guesswork and using your imagination, nobody can ever know what others have been through and how it has really affected them 100%. Explaining it to them has its limitations because words are limited. Even with similar experiences, people are still very different. With people it's not always about two negatives making a positive. There can be points of connection that bring and keep people together very happily, but there can just as easily be major differences within their experiences that clash and still make relationships with them harder than it needs to be, especially with any unresolved issues.

Relationships are difficult for everybody. Isn't it still about meeting and connecting with somebody, getting to know them, finding similarities, accepting differences, building on that and making things work? It's obvious that not everybody is the right match for you, no matter how your life has been. I guess I'm here to advocate looking outside of your "lane" and keeping your options open because you'll never know how the next seemingly untroubled person will make your life wonderful in ways you've never dreamed of.


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## taixfai (Mar 30, 2020)

CountZero said:


> It's not just insecurity, or a lack of social graces. It's also about mutual understanding. Someone who has had a reasonably normal life isn't going to understand, or be very forgiving, of the quirks and neuroses that come with a difficult past. Likely they won't comprehend those sorts of difficulties, or be dismissive or outright cruel. Someone who has had some personal experience in that realm is likely to more tolerant and forgiving of these things than someone who hasn't experienced them. But at the same time, such people also have their own share of burdens that can make being or living with them difficult.
> 
> So which is better? Comprehension and possible empathy, along with the attendant landmines, or being with someone who doesn't entirely get you and can be unsympathetic?


I hope you don't mind me replying to this after three days. xD; But while it might seem like to get involved with people who understand your struggle, it doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be good for you or put in as much as you might. Maybe you'll connect having been in similar places, but will you connect interest wise? Personality wise? Can you ascertain these people are going to treat you well or not wind up neglecting you being too caught up in their own wounds?

I get what you mean about people not really understanding. But...I don't know, other people might not be able to empathize but they can still _sympathize_. They can give you love and support back. Other hurt people... in my experience... even if you love them, it doesn't mean they are going to love you back or treat you well. I think, because other people are so wrapped up in their own hurt, they can't really do that even if they _want_ to. (...Or maybe they _are_ just selfish and don't care. They want an ear or a rescuer and nothing more.) So maybe they do get it, maybe they do try, but it's toxic. And that's not really good for you or them. Or fair. 

Like others have said here, I think you should reevaluate why you like these kind of women. Is it really about having common ground or are you attracted to emotional unavailability in partners? Do you really want to help people for the sake of helping them, or do you like the way how it makes you feel? Do you only feel loved when you rescue...etc. I also think it wouldn't hurt any more to broaden your horizons.


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## pwowq (Aug 7, 2016)

CountZero said:


> So which is better? Comprehension and possible empathy, along with the attendant landmines, or being with someone who doesn't entirely get you and can be unsympathetic?


The latter would become boring and tedious.
Normal and average are merely statistical numbers and it's very uncommon. 
99% of humanity comes with trouble.


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

WickerDeer said:


> I know ancient Greek has a other words and concepts for love. Like eros, philia, agape (I forgot most of them).
> But in English we might say like "I love pickles" and it's not the same as when you love your friends or whatever (hopefully lol). I think you are an EU citizen--do you speak a different language than English also, and is there a translation for "love" or other words to describe it--do you use it the same way as English? I just read some languages haven't got a direct translation for it either--like Navajo, which has a way to say "I have a lot of regard for you?" or something, but not a word for love.
> 
> 
> ...


I'm fluent in 3 languages. 
I'd say all of them use love in a similar manner, though there are words that nuance towards a specific inclination. 

Such as the German "_Begierde_" -- which'd indicate a love of a more sexual attraction kind.
Or _"Zuneigung, Herzlichkeit"_ which suggests a more gentle fondness/caring kind of romantic love.
_"Zuwendung"_ tends to signify a non-romantic affection, or caring for someone a lot. Though it's sometimes used for romantic love, too.

But honestly, the majority of people today probably don't really care about the nuances like that. 
And essentially use it synonymous.


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