# Women make men feel intimidated and insecure? Advice from men on this!



## Zerosum (Jul 17, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> And if that works, maybe they can form a conglomerate!


lol there is actually secret societies made up of the idea.. Some say they are an offset of the masons!


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

No one makes you feel insecure, although I do think the emotional and behavioral pressures that comes with dating can add or take away from a person's self-esteem.

Embrace your femininity. I prefer women to girls, and definitely to she-men. Intelligence, maturity, an open-mind, and shared values are also appreciated. It's not worth pursuing someone if you're not ready, or if they're clearly not your type.


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

I don't think that it is your responsibility to make men feel less intimidated. If they have insecurities, then that's their problem and their responsibility to overcome, don't let it stop you from being yourself.


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## caffeine_buff (Feb 20, 2011)

oh this thread reminds me so much of that feminist truism that "women have become the men they want to marry". 

my sister and i have talked about this so much before...  the degree of courage it takes to deal personally with anyone is quite proportionate to the degree to which they are being themselves (ie free of social conditioning and social expectation, including gender ones). 

IMO when a woman steps out of the social norms, it takes more courage for her to do than for a man, simply because she has MUCH more to lose, more people ready to attack her for daring to do so. so yes, seeing a woman who can be herself can be intimidating for some people because she has managed to do maybe what they aspire to do but have come nowhere near doing.

i dont think the solution is preemptive ego stroking. 

being different is unfortunately romanticised like pretty much any other gender stereotype -driven aspect. as always, XKCD says it pithily: 









the truth is that if you dare step away from the herd, you _are_ that much more alone. if you're being 'different' to be accepted, you ain't being different. if you're being different to be yourself, that need to live your truth tends to be more powerful than the need to fit in and be accepted. 

granted, it _can_ be hard to keep being cut off because you're being yourself, but in my experience, you're there for you no matter what and are therefore worth being true to. anyone else who offers you such a limiting conditional love (be this person or i wont love you) is just not worth sacrificing your truth for. someone who truly loves you should be able to accept you for who you are, otherwise they're just more in love with the notion of the image they have of you.

(to clarify, the word 'love' above applies to romantic and platonic love.)


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## Runvardh (May 17, 2011)

I only worry about her being scared of me and whether or not she has pepper spray - otherwise I'm the intimidating one.


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## TheCrucible (Jul 23, 2011)

Very intelligent people intimidate me, no matter which sex you are. This is because I consider myself to be some sort of intellectual..but for women in particular? If the female has traits akin to a Drill Sargeant, or a tough coach, then I simply turn around and walk away, no need to feel afraid!


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## kagemitsu (May 15, 2011)

It appears I have failed at irony, so I'll try and give a well thought reply about the matter.
_
Foreword: for the sake of this argument, I'll refer to heterosexual males and females. Homosexuals, asexuals or others might not agree with what is written below._

We, the human race, are intimidated by everything that holds more power than we do. But what is power? Sociology puts it like this:



> *Power* is a measurement of an entity's ability to control its environment, including the behavior of other entities.


We are intimidated by a thug with a knife in a dark alley because in that moment he has the power to hurt us; we are intimidated by a teacher testing us because he has the power to make us pass or not; we are intimidated by authority because it has the power to directly influence our lives; we are intimidated by someone smarter than us because we're afraid we can't keep his/her pace and it will hurt our self esteem.








​
Now, how does it translate to the dating and relationships world? We are intimidated by someone we consider attractive because _in that moment_ he or she has the power to decide about our emotional life. We're in a limbo between acceptance and rejection and all our values are at stake. The uncertainity about the outcome and the chance of getting emotionally hurt is what makes approaching or communicating with such person extremely hard.

How do we react to this? There's several stages:

_Flee_: is the total avoidance of the situation we're afraid of to preserve our emotional state. For the sake of this thread, a man or woman who feels intimidated by someone they deem attractive might avoid the situation altogether to preserve the current emotional state and avoid getting hurt, with all the consequences it brings.
_
Confrontation_: in an attempt to not show the internal discomfort of intimidation, we try to "fake" it and pretend we're on par with the person of interest, often behaving in a way totally different than our natural self. (See the example of a poster above, who's got a friend who fakes big words in her presence). The problem is that, more often than not, people can see you're faking it.

_Acceptance_: you know your limits, you know where you stand, you're not afraid of being in presence of such person and you don't feel forced to be on par with him/her because you're sure of yourself enough to not care about such things. This is the healthier state, in theory.

That being said, we are intimidated by someone we find attractive because they've got something we want and they've got the power to give or deny it. It's true for men and women alike, because I'm sure there's lots of women in here who have felt intimidated by a guy they found attractive at some point in their lives. 

A mere matter of statistics and slight gender differences makes it look like men are more intimidated by women, because while a single man will gladly date anything he finds attractive (be it for her looks or her smarts, possibly both), a woman tends to be more selective and emotional when it comes to choosing a partner, even if she's single.

So if you feel you're intimidating men, what can you do about it? I'd say be more approachable. If you feel someone is in the Flee or Confrontation stage, you should try to put the subject of interest at ease. If you love using big words, talk simpler. If you're too pretty, go easier with clothes and with the make up. If you're shy/reserved and tend to scare people off, be friendlier and smile more. If you're successful, don't mock people for not being at your level. If you're not successful, don't envy and talk on their behind, but appreciate and get inspired.

That's my view in a nutshell, I hope I made myself clear. :wink:


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Lumen Animae said:


> _Promethea_ I started this tread to get advice from men on this matter and you making fun of their answers isn’t going to help. So please don’t call them “immature, hypocritical and a misogynist.” And don’t mock their life experience as something they have gotten from television. I’m looking for their HONEST answers, no matter if you like them or not.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m glad you don’t have a problem with men believing that you are a scary evil bitch, but I do have problem with them assuming that I might be one without even getting to know me. I don’t ever want a guy to feel insecure and second-guess himself in my company. I don’t believe that all men have some kind of super ego and super confidence and that doesn’t make them ”weak of mind, and weak of character.” And you saying this brings up a lot of stereotypes about how a REAL man should be, well guess what, they are all REAL, even those who don’t act the way you want.


While you may retain your right to ask for advice to ask men how you may appear more submissive, accepting, and welcoming, I would suggest that you keep in mind that someone who says "women are evil and unpredictable" is being a misogynist.

You also made some weird comment like you're glad you're not gay.

I think you may hate other women, and have internalized some kind of misogyny. 

I'm honestly kind of worried what sort of man you'll end up with if you see men who call all women "evil" as victims, to which you should be a more accommodating door mat.


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## Lumen Animae (Jan 31, 2012)

fourtines said:


> While you may retain your right to ask for advice to ask men how you may appear more submissive, accepting, and welcoming, I would suggest that you keep in mind that someone who says "women are evil and unpredictable" is being a misogynist.
> 
> You also made some weird comment like you're glad you're not gay.
> 
> ...


I don't hate other women. I just got the irony of his post and answered in the same way. I’m sorry if that gave you the impression that I somehow were against gay people (I’m not) not my intention at all. I don’t see men as victims, I’m just trying to understand something from their point of view, out of respect for them and for myself, I don’t see that as being a door mat, but that’s your opinion and you have a right to have it and I’m entitled to have mine, so lets agree to disagree and leave it at that.


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## Sheppard (Jul 4, 2011)

I suppose reciprocity is worth a shot. It's worked for me sometimes, in the past, dealing with women who were intimidated. If I wanted them to open up, I did so first. Basically, I'm really not all that, see, so you don't have to be either, and I'm cool with that. And that's true. In the end though, not only can you not jump over someone else's shadow for them, but everyone has a right to their own guard, and that's something to be respected. You can knock on the door, but whether or not it opens is not, and should not be in anyone's hand but their own.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> And if that works, maybe they can form a conglomerate!


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## DarkyNWO (Mar 21, 2011)

@Jennywocky


Women should not hold themselves back what-so-ever. Take a peek at history and see where that led them sadly.
And no, it's not your problem if a guy bruises his ego being with you. Frankly, I think it's time that most men grow up. Men is not that superior to women as they might think that they are, and when their ego gets bruised they run home crying "evil bitches" and what have you. 

With that being said.

Not all males are unemotional macho-men with washboard abs and skyhigh confidence. It's socially acceptable for women to be shy, not so much for males. The word 'wuss' comes into mind. For every girl that is held back in her career there is a man who can't take the pressure of constantly being expected to succeed in everything he does. For every woman that gets low self esteem from not looking like Angelina Jolee there is a man who is depressed cause he can't act like Brad Pit. The discussion goes both-ways. 

Women expect guys to walk up and talk with them if they are seen as attractive. Men expect the women they walk up and talk with to be dumber and less successful than they are.

So before every girl goes "We'll I'm just too much for him" and before every guy go "Well they're just fucking bitches" imagen yourself in the other ones shoes before you judge. 

@adizzy

Courting explained by a dicitonary: To try to gain the love or affections of, especially to seek to marry.
Flirting explained by a dictionary: To make playfully romantic or sexual overtures.

See the difference? Courting generates affection, flirting creates attraction. You won't get into a girls pants with affection, and neither will you marry her with attraction. This suject goes deep, but I won't go into it on an open forum unless there is actually interest in the topic.


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## Cover3 (Feb 2, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> How do you intimidate women? I mean, how do you know the women are intimidated, and what do you think you have done that leaves us intimidated?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess that's pretty darn accurate, no matter how 'player' or psychopathic you are, the dynamics of the game of love depend on the approval of the woman, and usually not the other way around, so the burden of persuasion lies with men, I used to be shy around pretty females, now I'm not so much, I just still get puzzled at how some of these people give you the cold shoulder when you just try to speak to them, their attitude seem to imply ''I'm not even interested to have any verbal exchange with you'', several years back I guess you could say I was 'intimidated' by that attitude, as I grew a bit older I found that the feeling was actually far closer to disgust than anything else.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

It's the men's fault really.

Stand your ground, be self-confident and nothing will intimidate you.

Well, this still doesn't mean that any given man in question would like you any more/less than they in reality do, regardless of their apparent confidence level.


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## Duck_of_Death (Jan 21, 2011)

Lumen Animae said:


> A tread on here made me realize that us girls apparently can be viewed as intimidating by men. So what can we do to appear more inviting and welcoming towards you guys? (and not in a sexual way). I’m not talking about being approachable as in get hit on more often (not really a problem for most of us) but more as in not making men uncomfortable and insecure in our presence. Any advice? Thoughts? Would appreciate it!


Don't associate with pussies.


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## bengalcat (Dec 8, 2010)

fourtines said:


> While you may retain your right to ask for advice to ask men how you may appear more submissive, accepting, and welcoming


Why are these all necessarily lumped together? Can't one be accepting and welcoming, and interested in the welfare of the other party, without needing to be "submissive"?

I get that it's a trickier situation for people who don't feel like smiling is the real them or who don't feel like themselves when they try to accommodate someone, certainly if it feels just so wrong to be doing it then don't do it if you don't want to. But I'm finding it strange how people make out like if you care about the welfare of people (strangers or otherwise) you're interacting with, then you must be selling out or something. 

Weird too, this whole "oh you just should be yourself and don't worry and be authentic". Yeah, I agree in a basic sense, but the self is also something the changes with time and learning. It's not exactly like "all I am is a square, that's static and fixed, if I ever try anything else it's a huge betrayal and lie of my squareness." This is a person who's interested in adding a little angle in the corner of her square. Although she did say "women and men", she has made it clear what her motivation in asking the question was (that she is concerned that she is not really representing how open and accepting she is and that she might be unduly making guys feel uncomfortable) and I don't really see that she is dictating to all women how they should be with men?


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## bengalcat (Dec 8, 2010)

The level of disgust that some people are expressing here for those who have or show any insecurity or self-doubt.... it's really eye-opening. 

For me the problem comes in where the insecure person then starts using those feelings to blame women or to try to milk sympathy all day long. But just to see or know of someone who lacks faith in themselves, why should that arouse such ire and disgust?


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

jbking said:


> My suggestion would be to consider what kind of reactions are you giving for cases where a man shares something with you.
> 
> To come at this from another angle, how well do you study a guy's love languages or social style so that what you do or say is in alignment with what he may value highly? Just to give a short break down on those 2 big ideas in that question given alphabetically:
> 
> ...


I'm pretty sure I end up dating men who are "direct" types, although they DO show emotional range (not necessarily Promoting either, although one ex would fall under that). They have to make stuff happen though, which means they pursue and would rather suffer rejection than just sit back & wait.

----

Oh yeah, I find this discussed even less, but as a woman, _I_ am intimidated by _attractive men_. I fear rejection & vulnerability also. I worry I am not good enough in some way to have my attraction reciprocated. I assume someone that attractive would not find me attractive, etc. 

It's just convenient for me as a woman that men are more expected to pursue, but it still affects my dating experience. Women DO pursue, even if indirectly through blatantly obvious signs of interest, but I have trouble doing this for a variety of reasons ranging from shyness to obliviousness.


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

Haha, that's me!



Arcaeus said:


> The only type of women that would "intimidate" me would probably be women that are *too* outgoing and energetic. I don't think I could handle a girl who wants to always be out and about mingling with people or enjoying social activities outside of the home. Or who like to party every weekend. Or drink. Or club. Or whatever.
> 
> I enjoy going out with my girlfriend, but there is a limit my introversion can take, and I'm just too much of a homebody to do it with any great consistency: it just wears me out. That's why I tend to seek out introverted people in general.


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

All guys want from women is to feel *manly*. A man loves a woman who can make him feel manly, who can make him feel like he is *needed on a personal level*. The need means a confident, proper and real attachment - a need for something good that the man possesses. A woman who is intimidating is someone who makes the man feel like he is not needed and necessary. Whether or not she is too strong, too pretty, too intelligent etc. are not the real issue. You could be the hottest chick who is also incredibly smart and rich, but if you find a way to make a man feel like he is STILL needed, you won't be intimidating to him. 

A man simply needs to be needed (This is not the same as being used or abused). e.g. a guy would love to spend his money on a girl if he feels like she NEEDS that help, and it is HIS idea to help her out. The bottom line is, make the guy feel like you need him, and make him feel like it is HIS choice to offer you the need. 

Guys need approvals from women. That's why they work out, they make money, they try to be nice etc. Girls, or vajayjays (lol) are the major motivator in the game. 



Lumen Animae said:


> A tread on here made me realize that us girls apparently can be viewed as intimidating by men. So what can we do to appear more inviting and welcoming towards you guys? (and not in a sexual way). I’m not talking about being approachable as in get hit on more often (not really a problem for most of us) but more as in not making men uncomfortable and insecure in our presence. Any advice? Thoughts? Would appreciate it!


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

@Jwing24
only if you think attraction is weak. It's pretty normal to be nervous around someone you like.


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## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

Well, there's nervous, and there's oh god I am so anxious I need to leave. I am the latter, which I don't think is very normal.


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## dann (Feb 11, 2012)

If a man is intimidated and insecure around you, he probably isn't worth your time. In fact, YOU probably won't give him your time because you won't be attracted to him.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

Well I think, and I don't know if this is what you're asking, but it's possible that well it's hard talking to a woman initially, and not making it seem like we're trying to hit on them. That pressure alone might be intimidation. 



Lumen Animae said:


> A tread on here made me realize that us girls apparently can be viewed as intimidating by men. So what can we do to appear more inviting and welcoming towards you guys? (and not in a sexual way). I’m not talking about being approachable as in get hit on more often (not really a problem for most of us) but more as in not making men uncomfortable and insecure in our presence. Any advice? Thoughts? Would appreciate it!


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

pretty simple really. 

just give off an air of being unintelligent and uninformed, ask for our help with things you can easily do yourself, and stroke our egos at each available moment=success at keeping your man.


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## Debatelizard (Jan 1, 2016)

Be honest. If you are "intimidated by women", #1 you will not be honest with her. This means she can not and should not trust you. Men have some bizarre misconception that you can buy women's love. What actually happens is you come off as a B.S. artist, a manipulator, and dishonest. But...but...but...I bought her 550 roses. Okay. What do you think she thinks? Here's what she subconsciously thinks: he must "want something from this." Don't be a creep. Women respect men who are just that: MEN. Why do you think more abrasive men are more successful with women? It's not because "women love jerks." It's because estrogen is attracted to testosterone. That is simply nature. Women want a man, and not a boy. Boys might get little girls, but they do not get women.


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

Lumen Animae said:


> A tread on here made me realize that us girls apparently can be viewed as intimidating by men. So what can we do to appear more inviting and welcoming towards you guys? (and not in a sexual way). I’m not talking about being approachable as in get hit on more often (not really a problem for most of us) but more as in not making men uncomfortable and insecure in our presence. Any advice? Thoughts? Would appreciate it!


The only reason why a person would be intimidated by anyone is because they're shy, don't know you well, or you're simply over energetic in their eyes. It has nothing to do with being a woman I'm sure unless the man just doesn't have much experience with women in the first place.


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## cozmicjack (Aug 29, 2016)

infp so girls r scary


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

You pretty much have to mirror people to get them to feel invited. Come down to their level.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

King of Cups said:


> You pretty much have to mirror people to get them to feel invited. Come down to their level.


Why would you do that when after doing it for a certain amount of time you'd get sick of it? Are you agreeing with the title?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

You can send the men in question for therapy.
If their ego is so fragile, nothing in your power short of full submission and prostration will do.


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## septic tank (Jul 21, 2013)

This thread was originally posted 5 years ago and it still looks like a thread someone would make today.

We have made so much progress with gender relations since 2012 wOw


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

fartface said:


> Why would you do that when after doing it for a certain amount of time you'd get sick of it? Are you agreeing with the title?


After a certain amount of time, it is hard to be intimidating/intimidated. So this only applies to early encounters. And anyone can be intimidating.


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## knife (Jul 10, 2013)

Nabbit said:


> This thread was originally posted 5 years ago and it still looks like a thread someone would make today.
> 
> We have made so much progress with gender relations since 2012 wOw


Or maybe the simple truth of the matter is that adolescents are idiots?


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## Cherry (May 28, 2017)

Lumen Animae said:


> A tread on here made me realize that us girls apparently can be viewed as intimidating by men. So what can we do to appear more inviting and welcoming towards you guys? (and not in a sexual way). I’m not talking about being approachable as in get hit on more often (not really a problem for most of us) but more as in not making men uncomfortable and insecure in our presence. Any advice? Thoughts? Would appreciate it!


I think if they feel that way and you're not even doing anything intentionally wrong (e.g. being bitchy, giving them the sass face) then there's no reason you oughtta change anything, really, it's _their_ problem if _they're_ insecure and uncomfortable, that's something THEY need to work on. This world should not adapt to fit the needs of insecurities, the insecurities are the root problem and need to be solved.


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## Acrylic (Dec 14, 2015)

Lumen Animae said:


> So what can we do to appear more inviting and welcoming towards you guys? (and not in a sexual way)





Lumen Animae said:


> I’m not talking about being approachable as in get hit on more often (not really a problem for most of us)


See... there it is. There's why lol.

Look how indifferent, how utterly insouciant you are in matters of courting. You're "not talking about being hit on, not really a problem anyway"... which shows once again the total lack of need or want of women to be hit on, coupled with the double helix of the man's DNA which encodes within him a need to hit on a species that could not be more disinterested in their meager offerings and burnt sacrifices.

How can something _not_ be intimidating with this dynamic going on? It's like a line of jesters each waiting for their turn to approach the throne...


(jester approaches, begins juggling)
(loud yawn) "This one bores me" (claps hands) "Off with his head"
(next jester meekly asks permission to approach the throne)
(in distracted voice) "Permission granted"
(jester approaches, begins doing mime)
(rolls eyes) "This one vexes me greatly. To the gallows with him"
(next jester meekly asks permission to approach the throne)
(belatedly looks up from phone) "What is it with you people? Can't you see I'm busy? And yet you still besiege me with your piddling existences" 
"We can't help it!!"
I mean, hell, one mother on here refers to her daughter's jesters as 'admirers'...



Sensational said:


> Ask if you can facetime her (that is how my daughter and her guy admirers communicate).


Now we're not even allowed to lay eyes upon the face in the throne!! We must ask for 'time with the face' or 'facetime'... at least in the old days you could just look directly at her before getting sent to the gallows!!

So evolution has set up this weird thing where one species could care LESS about having people hitting on them, and the other species does the hitting on, thus making them completely disposable, but nonetheless they are compelled to do it anyway... 

Kind of like if flowers were to say "If I get one more bee delivering pollen to me, I might lose it. Leaving a sign on my doorstep that says "no more pollen please, got _plenty_ to last me the next decade, thanks!", but the bee is like "C-Can't help it!! Genes are making me!! M-Must! Deliver! Moar! Pollen!"


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## SgtPepper (Nov 22, 2016)

never really been intimidated. i just avoid girls who look bitchy, high-maintenance, self-centered


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## martinkunev (Mar 23, 2017)

There are women who expect any man to do things for them. This can be a desire to be entertained, to be complimented, etc.
The possibility of being perceived as dull or boring and consequently being ignored can be intimidating.


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

As a generality, it's the fear of rejection.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Nabbit said:


> This thread was originally posted 5 years ago and it still looks like a thread someone would make today.
> 
> We have made so much progress with gender relations since 2012 wOw


Yeah we have, now is the time of female action.
Wonder woman and the like.
Go out and do whatever you like, the stage is yours.
Only your own complexes and hangups are stopping you.
Luckily for me I'm a male Ni dom.
All the action oriented females are looking for a guy like me that they can dominate physically, 
while I tie them down structurally.
Once they are done raping me in the butt with a huge dildo, 
they have also signed away their soul via contract.
A fair deal I would say!


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## septic tank (Jul 21, 2013)

Typology Jesus said:


> Yeah we have, now is the time of female action.
> Wonder woman and the like.
> Go out and do whatever you like, the stage is yours.


If right now is what you think the standard should be for gender relations, then you've set the bar pretty low, considering we don't go a day on perC without one gender getting angry at the other for X reason. But your post smells of sarcasm. 

Also my Ni dom boyfriend has my soul without any pegging or contracts. So I think you can do better.

]


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## RyuukoGo (Apr 6, 2015)

The more intimidated and or insecure I feel about woman.. the more I am drawn to her because it forces me to change and not be in a "safe space" after all life is about growing?

If you are meeting males that are intimidated by you it may not be you that needs to change..maybe they do ?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Nabbit said:


> If right now is what you think the standard should be for gender relations, then you've set the bar pretty low, considering we don't go a day on perC without one gender getting angry at the other for X reason. *But your post smells of sarcasm.
> *
> Also my Ni dom boyfriend has my soul without any pegging or contracts. So I think you can do better.


Bolded says a lot.
My sarcasm comes down to the impossibility of agreement.
Given the reality of type we can't really agree on anything.
Hence, no matter what the ideal of the spirit of our time is,
some type left out in the cold will either refer back to the "good old days",
or point to some imagined utopian future with rivers of milk and honey.


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## septic tank (Jul 21, 2013)

Typology Jesus said:


> Bolded says a lot.
> My sarcasm comes down to the impossibility of agreement.
> Given the reality of type we can't really agree on anything.
> Hence, no matter what the ideal of the spirit of our time is,
> ...


Impossibility of agreement on what, are you talking about you and I not agreeing or men and women not agreeing?

You're right though, the absolute ideal that all men and women will get along with each other in whatever way is never going to happen. There will always be idealists wanting some improvement on the gender relations between men and women, whether it be through a return to traditionalist gender norms, gender norms with social equality in mind, or something completely different. What they all have in common is that their vision of what gender norms should be for everyone is never going to happen.

For me personally, this doesn't matter. I've concluded that it doesn't matter if all women and men followed my ideal of gender norms as long as I can adequately get along with people within my realm of existence. I'm not going to meet every man in the globe, not even in my town, so I don't need to worry about what all men do or how to act around all men. I only need to figure out how to be sociable with the men I actually want or need to interact with. So anything having to do with "all men" doesn't matter to me, including how they should act ideally.

My first post in this thread was just irritation that there's so many threads on perC about what to do around men, what to do around women, how women act, how men and women should act, etc. It gets old, especially since I've developed a philosophy behind all of this that works for me and the people in my life. 

I need a break from PerC, probably.

Nice Lelouch avatar.


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## tryingtodobetter (Apr 19, 2016)

Sundae said:


> never really been intimidated. i just avoid girls who look bitchy, high-maintenance, self-centered


 Id really like to see you expand on women who appear bitchy. What are your personal warning signs?


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## tryingtodobetter (Apr 19, 2016)

Reading through OPs initial response on the first page, i can relate. I'm extremely academically driven and i've heard similar things from my guy friends that i'm intimidating and that i talk well etc... it's really not fair.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

tryingtodobetter said:


> Reading through OPs initial response on the first page, i can relate. I'm extremely academically driven and i've heard similar things from my guy friends that i'm intimidating and that i talk well etc... it's really not fair.


_Speak_ well.

I don't know whether or not guys find me intimidating. I don't really care. I just..do what I do and if anyone has a problem with it, they tend not to speak up.*shrug* whatever.


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## tryingtodobetter (Apr 19, 2016)

Fumetsu said:


> _Speak_ well.
> 
> I don't know whether or not guys find me intimidating. I don't really care. I just..do what I do and if anyone has a problem with it, they tend not to speak up.*shrug* whatever.


If i'm referring to my guy friends and we're having a conversation then i'm talking to them. So i talk well. Talking requires a counterpart. My guy friends are my counterpart. There's no difference except speak is formal. & If thats your attitude about it, cheers!


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

Hmm, I think what Despotic Ocelot said is a major reason in the context of dating/courting. But if the OP is just asking about "friends" (as in, not friends who are secretly harboring feelings for you), then it could be an entirely different reason. There are many reasons to be intimidated by a person and if the dynamic is more platonic then it's possible your gender is not even relevant to why. For example, I've had people get intimidated by my (perceived) intelligence and it's often women, not men. It doesn't make much sense for a man to be intimidated by a woman's "indifference" in regards to courtship, if he is not trying to "court" her...does it? 

The only reason I could think of being intimidated outside of the courtship/feels scenario is women who are like caricatures who conform to all the negative stereotypes. The reason this is intimidating to me is because these are also the people who seem to lack self-awareness so they don't even realize how they are behaving, tend to have that "emotional vampire" thing going on, are draining to be around but difficult to get away from without some kind of backlash. 

At the very least these people attract a lot of drama in their lives and then I have to actively try to avoid it/them if I don't want to be a part of it. 

There are men who do the same thing, as far as conforming to all the worst stereotypes, it's just that the result of that manifests differently; I find it easier to just avoid these people. They are the types who act like "bros".


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## PiT (May 6, 2017)

tryingtodobetter said:


> If i'm referring to my guy friends and we're having a conversation then i'm talking to them. So i talk well. Talking requires a counterpart. My guy friends are my counterpart. There's no difference expect speak is formal. & If thats your attitude about it, cheers!


If the problem is that you speak too formally for their tastes, it sounds like the problem is with them and not with you.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Nabbit said:


> You're right though,


I know.



> Nice Lelouch avatar.


I was not aware of the characters name, 
just found him trying search strings on google images until I found one I liked.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Be overwhelmingly average or crappy to make up for your physical beauty


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## Chime (Apr 20, 2017)

If you're interested in a guy and think he's cute say so.

Plenty of times I've met girls who I found incredibly attractive that I was very intimidated by and then later found out they thought I was attractive too, but they just never mentioned it. So, while talking to them I make sure not to mention I find them attractive physically because I've learned that when I do say this girls get upset and angry [which just sounds rather silly and stupid if you ask me] and instantly assume I'm just trying to get in their pants. 

One girl I met years ago talked for a few hours and started talking about sex with my older brother and guys she thinks are hot and what she's into in a guy... but she never once mentioned that she had any interest in me. The conversation carries on with her mentioning guys we know and saying what she thinks is hot about them. I just assumed she wasn't at all into me and was too intimidated to see if she wanted to hang out or something. 

Years later we're talking and she says she felt bummed out that I never tried to be more than friends with her and that she had a crush on me and thought I was really interesting and deep and found it attractive. But, when we had talked that day I had no idea, cause she just kept talking about all these other guys. 


Another things that's intimidating is when a girl keeps talking about how hot or attractive other guys are in front of you and flirts with them but never flirts with you. This personally will make me not bother. Cause why bother talking to someone who's flirty with everyone else but not me? This also makes me feel shitty and unattractive when someone is so openly flirty with everyone buy me. I kinda just don't spend too much time around girls like this.


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

Chime said:


> Another things that's intimidating is when a girl keeps talking about how hot or attractive other guys are in front of you and flirts with them but never flirts with you. This personally will make me not bother. Cause why bother talking to someone who's flirty with everyone else but not me? This also makes me feel shitty and unattractive when someone is so openly flirty with everyone buy me. I kinda just don't spend too much time around girls like this.


I suspect a lot of girls just do that, because there was a girl who liked me who did that, and she had already established that she liked me, but still did it (and I didn't like her back).. which just made me suspicious that she was trying to make me jealous or something so I'd pursue her. lol. But I also think maybe she had no actual intention and was just talking with no filter. haha


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## Chime (Apr 20, 2017)

ninjahitsawall said:


> I suspect a lot of girls just do that, because there was a girl who liked me who did that, and she had already established that she liked me, but still did it (and I didn't like her back).. which just made me suspicious that she was trying to make me jealous or something so I'd pursue her. lol. But I also think maybe she had no actual intention and was just talking with no filter. haha


There was a girl who flirted with everyone around us but me and often said how hot she thought all these other guys were. I kinda just stopped hanging out with her cause of it. 

Ran into her a few months after I'd stopped hanging out with her and she confessed to having a crush on me and not knowing hot to ask me out. Then she asked me out... kinda just said no cause I don't care to spend my time with someone who's going to flirt with everyone near me and never with me.


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## Lunatics (Jun 20, 2015)

Red Magician said:


> Yeah we have, now is the time of female action.
> Wonder woman and the like.
> Go out and do whatever you like, the stage is yours.
> Only your own complexes and hangups are stopping you.
> ...


This is ridiculous. I love it!! xDD

Sorry, I just got linked to this topic and got into reading the last few pages. Oh, and I don't think your avatar character is Code Geass's Lelouch. :3 Just a handsome anime guy maybe.

***

*ON TOPIC:*

Yo, what's up everybody. 

(As some guy here expressed his aversion to this type of girl in appearance...)Here's me, the girl with the naturally bitchy face who rarely gets hit on in person during daylight. I found that guys need a couple of drinks before they muster up the courage to approach me and then when they do I get shy. I love it though, if they do and especially if I actually like the guy too. That rarely happens though. Anyway, it's still flattering if it happens.

I have hit on guys myself before. Haha, I simply told them I find them cute as the place didn't allow for a proper conversation. This is what also got me a boyfriend once too. The weird thing is though as soon as I am the one to make the first move that subconsciously makes me feel less excited about the guy as if they lose their appeal, I don't know why ugh. Therefore, it ruins things as the guys I've approached so far always seemed insecure and I don't like being the dominant one (at least not all the time or when it comes to the initial stages of courting). Also I've rarely met people who match my wit and vibe so a successful flirtatious convo happens. Certainly, it's mega attractive if it does haha.

Another annoying thing I've noticed is that the type of guys in character and looks I tend to find appealing usually go for average looking girls which puzzles me because although I may look like an ice queen when not paying attention, I'm not unobtainable. However, I refuse to go out of my way to be unnaturally giggly, or easy or try to change my looks so I seem average only so that I can grab a guy's attention. *sigh* I'm just hoping eventually the right guy will see past my facade and actually approach me because he's genuinely interested in getting to know me regardless of my looks.


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## Acrylic (Dec 14, 2015)

.


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## Wolf (Mar 20, 2016)

Red Magician said:


> Yeah we have, now is the time of female action.
> Wonder woman and the like.
> Go out and do whatever you like, the stage is yours.
> Only your own complexes and hangups are stopping you.
> ...


What an excellent compromise.


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

Lunatics said:


> This is ridiculous. I love it!! xDD
> 
> Sorry, I just got linked to this topic and got into reading the last few pages. Oh, and I don't think your avatar character is Code Geass's Lelouch. :3 Just a handsome anime guy maybe.
> 
> ...


This got me thinking.... that there is a common 'male default' if you will, to assume a girl isn't interested unless otherwise indicated, and/or it is the guy's "job" to encourage interest (which simultaneously explains intimidation, cluelessness, and assuming interest where there is none :shocked. "Bitchface" therefore maintains the default because the safest assumption is"not interested". On the opposite end of the spectrum...those girls are also maintaining the default, by coming off more approachable than they intend, so guys are all "yup she wants it" (even tho she probably doesn't lol). Notice that paradoxically, there's a passivity to this "default" (i.e. relying on "mind-reading" women's behavior to determine course of action, rather than trying to get a more direct confirmation, or at least initiate an approach to some degree). Which is maybe why it's less appealing to you? It's sort of one-sided if one person always has to express interest and the other is just responding to it. I think most people want to see interest in a potential partner and not just indicating their own all the time (disregarding the whole "thrill of the chase" thing).


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## Lunatics (Jun 20, 2015)

Despotic Ocelot said:


> ...


Found the majority of this hilarious, some insulting, but most of all I was left like...












Despotic Ocelot said:


> * *


OMG!!!:rolling: Such a shame the guy is no longer amongst the living either. :/ Death has us all, dammit.



> There are theories on this... many think it is because bitchfaces and vampires share a recent common ancestor...


I fuckin' love vampires! Vampires forever.:yeah:



> When a human male imbibes of alcohol prior to meeting his eyes with those of a bitchface, this will accomplish two things...
> 
> 
> It disables the gene at the base of the gut (the one responsible for 'sinking stomach')
> ...


Or most likely 'bitchface'/any other girl will think you're not taking her seriously and only want to sleep with her.:biggrin:



> Despite what you may hear a bitchface claim should you find yourself in the presence of one... a bitchface _is_ made of the mineral in the spoiler below, so unless you've had the recommended allotment of alcohol half an hour prior to encounter... approach _at your own risk_.
> 
> 
> * *


HAHahaha... Or maybe try here:












> The bitchface will never, ever, _ever_, change or lessen it's appearance to come down to the level of an average human.


Yeah, I was born with the features, won't go to plastic surgery for ya, lol.




ninjahitsawall said:


> This got me thinking.... that there is a common 'male default' if you will, to assume a girl isn't interested unless otherwise indicated, and/or it is the guy's "job" to encourage interest (which simultaneously explains intimidation, cluelessness, and assuming interest where there is none :shocked. "Bitchface" therefore maintains the default because the safest assumption is"not interested". On the opposite end of the spectrum...those girls are also maintaining the default, by coming off more approachable than they intend, so guys are all "yup she wants it" (even tho she probably doesn't lol). Notice that paradoxically, there's a passivity to this "default" (i.e. relying on "mind-reading" women's behavior to determine course of action, rather than trying to get a more direct confirmation, or at least initiate an approach to some degree). Which is maybe why it's less appealing to you? It's sort of one-sided if one person always has to express interest and the other is just responding to it. I think most people want to see interest in a potential partner and not just indicating their own all the time (disregarding the whole "thrill of the chase" thing).


Yeah, mind reading is effin' bollocks! It's time people evolve and eradicate that belief and learn how to be emotionally brave and honest instead. Gender roles are confusing as F, very true. Therefore, it will be best if simply anyone no matter the gender just speaks up if they see someone they like. No more mind games. The sooner you find out she/he is not into you, the sooner you can move on and find your person. Another puzzling thing... When guys say they've been friend zoned. Excuse me that does not exist. It comes down to the fear of rejection as someone else here already mentioned. They befriend the girl, harbour that one-sided thing for her, then expect when they finally confess to be reciprocated and if they do not, they blame it on the friend zone. Eh... Or indeed when the girl first approaches the guy and he ends up thinking she's easy. Guess a girl can approach a guy first without seeming as that but it requires certain subtlety which is not taught at school or uni haha. And then going back to 'bitchface' - it's remarkable, more like disturbing, how much people rely on physical appearance to assume if someone is nice/safe/approachable,etc. I have encountered plenty of boys and girls in my life who are gorgeous, angel-looking, charismatic on the surface and thus, super desirable. And then when I actually got to know them they turned out to be mean, horrible people. Pretty much this.
* *













 Therefore, what annoys me here is how guys who say they avoid bitchy looking girls know for sure they are bitchy, bad people only because their faces look fierce, grumpy or unimpressed.

I had a discussion with a girl friend recently. We were out at a music festival and she complained there are no hot guys around, that no one is approaching us. I said to her it's probably because rarely anyone talks to anyone these days. But then she told me about that other girl friend of hers who gets approached all the time whenever she's out. I asked her what her friend's secret is then. Lemme tell you, that girl apparently smiles at guys when they check her out (okay, that one is cool) and to assist with that she wears dresses with an under-boob cut-out (okay, that one I refuse to replicate). Well, I'm not surprised she gets checked out and 'courted' easily by guys then. Otherwise, I cannot imagine myself in practice constantly fishing for guys' gazes to accidentally fall on me so that I can smile at them with the expectation they'll then approach me.  To me that means having my life consumed by the idea of capturing a male's attention rather than enjoying myself in the moment. 

Oh, and here's another funny story. My ISTP gal friend asks this guy one day what the time is because her phone died. The guy flips out: apologizes saying he has a girlfriend and then runs. A couple of months after a guy approaches me on the street and asks me what the time is. I check my phone, respond and keep walking to wherever I was headed. Did I miss something??:anyone:

End story:


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