# This is why you suck



## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Inguz said:


> I'm fucking annoyed by the attitude the ennegram forum has, people don't want to grow, it's more or less used as an identity. Since being a type 6 is like being HIV positive I can say one thing — the 6 forum is in my opinion probably the most focused on discussing type-related insecurities from a very personal perspective, as in actually wanting to grow. As such it continues the cycle when people walk in to the 6 forum and get hit by it, there's no glorification of the insecurities as can be seen in the 4 forum, as an example.


_Whut_, being a type 6 is like being HIV positive..? What's the matter with people, as far as I know, most people IRL actually appreciate 6s very much  And why wouldn't they, I thought 6s at their best are the most committed and brave friends and warm-hearted thinkers, just to name few things. 

Honestly, I wonder whether this attitude towards 6s stems from perhaps originally very few people who openly complained about the traits of 6s because they projected their flaws and couldn't admit _they themselves were 6s. _And, after that, many others have copied their thinking patterns. If this has been the case, I'm sad for people having such narrow-minded and unoriginal thinking.




> This also means that if you are a 4, having a 5 wing doesn't make you smart. Sorry, that's not how it works.


If people like that exist, I'll bet they are not 4w5s really.




> It's not a cool identity no matter how you see it, it's the first step to becoming aware of what an awful person you are. Glorifying any type is just like saying that cancer is more cool than aids. It's an exposure of your fixation and insecurities. Wallowing in your fixation, your insecurities that make up the type means that you are making zero progress, not transcending yourself. If you want to make a cool t-shirt and boast, go right ahead, but know that you are falling victim to your ego, limiting your own free will because you are giving in to the Mr. Hyde inside of you.
> 
> _Enlightenment is not found in the light, but illuminating in the darkness._
> — C.G. Jung


Thanks, Inguz, for your post. It was very refreshing, unique and inspirational. I love how you and your whole post reflect the fact that 6s indeed are truth tellers and make others to see what's rotten.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Ps. If that's truly how at least some people here see 6s, I'm not staying unknown anymore.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Inguz said:


> It's not a cool identity no matter how you see it, it's the first step to becoming aware of what an awful person you are. Glorifying any type is just like saying that cancer is more cool than aids. It's an exposure of your fixation and insecurities. Wallowing in your fixation, your insecurities that make up the type means that you are making zero progress, not transcending yourself. If you want to make a cool t-shirt and boast, go right ahead, but know that you are falling victim to your ego, limiting your own free will because you are giving in to the Mr. Hyde inside of you.


While I agree with the messages behind this thread (and with the frustration), I'm not sure the people you want to read this will. The loners will still type as 4/5, the "badasses" will still be 8s, the extroverts will still be 7...

Though, saying it with tea and cookies in a nice voice certainly doesn't help much, either. And not much will, I think. How do you _make _someone grow? Typically, doesn't it start by waiting until they hit rock bottom, thus realizing how crappy everything is and want to fix it? Trying to help someone who doesn't want help is like talking to a wall. And unfortunately most people are like this, content with things as they are. 

Perhaps it's partly a fault of the manner in which we "introduce" the Enneagram. PerC is an MBTI forum (overall) and, to put it bluntly, MBTI is a cakewalk of happiness and sunshine in comparison. Enneagram is, as you said, not. (And the MBTI / Keirsey sections have much, if not more, of the same problem of typism / non-growth.) So I think a part of it is that people come to the E-forums expecting the same thing, that the E will give them an excuse to act as they are. But then they get shocked at the learning involved and/or stubbornly remain ignorant and perpetuate everything that is wrong... Learning is _hard_, after all.

Perhaps the ignorant actually don't have the proper resources? Perhaps a "newcomer's guide" is called for? I doubt this will solve the problem as a whole, but thinking about it, there's not really a good place for newbies to go to... And heading off the problem where it begins tends to help a bit.

---



zallla said:


> Ps. If that's truly how at least some people here see 6s, I'm not staying unknown anymore.


Nah, only 6w7 phobics are "horrible" nowadays. (Around PerC, not around other forums.)

So, uh... Welcome to the club, I guess.
And obviously that's partly a joke.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

zallla said:


> _Whut_, being a type 6 is like being HIV positive..? What's the matter with people, as far as I know, most people IRL actually appreciate 6s very much  And why wouldn't they, I thought 6s at their best are the most committed and brave friends and warm-hearted thinkers, just to name few things.
> 
> Honestly, I wonder whether this attitude towards 6s stems from perhaps originally very few people who openly complained about the traits of 6s because they projected their flaws and couldn't admit _they themselves were 6s. _And, after that, many others have copied their thinking patterns. If this has been the case, I'm sad for people having such narrow-minded and unoriginal thinking.


I agree with the statement that IRL a lot of people sincerely like people of the type 6. However I think that the insecurities of type 6 shouldn't be hid away either. I'll take myself as an example. I'm a 6w7 and despite how hard it was to admit it to myself, I do feel genuinely self-confident when I'm with people that really accepts me. In my case the counterphobia took the expression of being in denial of that insecurity, that I feel more confident when I have others support and rationalized it in the way of _I don't need you_, and made it true to myself by creating conflict. When others started disliking me I had a reason to dislike them, and feel that I didn't want their support in the first place. Coming to terms with what I've been in deep denial of, I can see myself for who I really am more and more... It's a very fascinating experience to see just how much of the core fears described in enneagram literature really is there, beneath the smokescreen of my counterpassion. I admit it, I feel lonely and scared, I just didn't want to see it. The more I learn the more I'm amazed at how correct it is, and this is exactly the kind of stuff that I'd like to see more discussions of. It's not about identity, it's not about inflating the ego, it's just coming to terms with who you really are in order to move forward. The idealization and superficial labels are counter-productive, they serve no real purpose aside from distracting from the self growth that I want to see. If people in general can be more open about how they work and discuss their fixation more in depth then that is an infinitely better environment for newbies to get in to.

I went off a bit ranting and it's not necessarily directed at you.



zallla said:


> Thanks, Inguz, for your post. It was very refreshing, unique and inspirational. I love how you and your whole post reflect the fact that 6s indeed are truth tellers and make others to see what's rotten.


Feels good to hear. :happy:


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

The way this forum has played out in retrospect to the present day has become quite different. Back over 6+ months ago when no-one would or were ashamed to type as 6 and as a few members worked hard to eradicate 6 stereotypes, exaggerations etc and just put the type in a more natural light, there definitely seems to be a change and one that is kind of balancing precariously on a rope because for longer term forum members, the days are pretty much over for 6 advocating, everything has been pretty much said which only leaves one thing left and that is to talk about the downside of being a 6 because afterall, its not all pretty however, it would be biased to say that 6 qualities that can be bad, do not possess any inherent good in them, so 6 qualities like any types qualities are a double edged sword, both good and bad. Lets take security for example, whats wrong with seeking security, what are others types perception of security? It is both a hindrance and a positive influence. Why do we view things in terms of black and white without seeing the full spectrum? 
We are still going to have to keep nipping this extreme thinking in the bud for as long as newbies enter this space and yet keep in line with the ever changing intention of the forum which pulls in 2 directions. 
Ill say as people know and others have done, i've been trying to pull the 6 perception in a more positive direction, now I realise that this isn't quite accurate in a sense however, its not me trying to make type 6 sound like candyfloss and glitter nor trying to demonise a type when it may not apply to everyone of that type and so the only way as I think @Inguz was getting at was portraying the type in the most natural, unbiased light which is gonna remain difficult whilst there are still superficial aspects and projections floating around unsuspecting parts of this forum, especially outside the enneagram forum, I have seen, yes! Nowhere is safe :laughing:
So where do we go from here? Well we can continue to use this newish template or lens for viewing the type and teaching others how to view the types in the way they were meant to be learnt. Of course, everyone has their own lens/filter for understanding things but to veer too far away from that, kinda loses the essence and thus understanding.



Paradigm said:


> Nah, only 6w7 phobics are "horrible" nowadays. (Around PerC, not around other forums.)
> 
> So, uh... Welcome to the club, I guess.
> And obviously that's partly a joke.


Your kiddin, I love you phobic 6's, you is so underrated. If anything, I would have thought CP's would have more of an enemy base :laughing:


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@mushr00m

And this is why you are MOTM: not only are you diplomatic, rational, silly, but you manage to explain things so everyone can get something useful out of it.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

tanstaafl28 said:


> @_mushr00m_
> 
> And this is why you are MOTM: not only are you diplomatic, rational, silly, but you manage to explain things so everyone can get something useful out of it.


:blushed:Aww, thankyou so very much. I appreciate that *salute*
You are a charming fellow indeed :tongue:


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## Octavarium (Nov 27, 2012)

@Inguz, I agree that the enneagram should not be used as a cool identity, and we shouldn't sugarcoat the flaws and insecurities of the types. However, saying that people's fixations are analogous to cancer and aids is no way to promote psychological health. Glorifying certain types, or acting like your type makes you a cool badass, can do a great deal of harm, but telling people that they are a hideously flawed human being because of their fixation, or beating yourself up for being your type is no better, even if all the types get the same treatment.


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## Pucca (Jun 13, 2012)

Octavarium said:


> @_Inguz_, I agree that the enneagram should not be used as a cool identity, and we shouldn't sugarcoat the flaws and insecurities of the types. However, *saying that people's fixations are analogous to cancer and aids is no way to promote psychological health.* Glorifying certain types, or acting like your type makes you a cool badass, can do a great deal of harm, but* telling people that they are a hideously flawed human being because of their fixation, or beating yourself up for being your type is no better*, even if all the types get the same treatment.


This is exactly how I felt reading the OP. I read a lot of self-hate in it and some of that hate directed outwards. :sad:



Inguz said:


> Coming to terms with what I've been in deep denial of, I can see myself for who I really am more and more... It's a very fascinating experience to see just how much of the core fears described in enneagram literature really is there, beneath the smokescreen of my counterpassion. I admit it, I feel lonely and scared, I just didn't want to see it. *The more I learn the more I'm amazed at how correct it is*, and this is exactly the kind of stuff that I'd like to see more discussions of.* It's not about identity, it's not about inflating the ego, it's just coming to terms with who you really are in order to move forward. *The idealization and superficial labels are counter-productive, they serve no real purpose aside from distracting from the self growth that I want to see. If people in general can be more open about how they work and discuss their fixation more in depth then that is an infinitely better environment for newbies to get in to.


This makes sense and is motivating. It encourages the type of growth the enneagram was intended for. 
Thank you for sharing your personal and inspirational example. :kitteh:


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## Phantomhive (May 21, 2012)

@Paradigm said it way better than I could have. Good job.


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## RoSoDude (Apr 3, 2012)

Am I missing something here? I wasn't really aware that the board had problems with 6 hate. Perhaps I joined after this was no longer the norm, or I just didn't notice it when I did.

Now, it seems that people are generally pretty accepting of other types. Maybe I just ignore the threads that run counter to this, but I think generally the information going around is more positive than negative. Moreover, it seems as though you're having some trouble accepting the positive qualities of your own self, given your likening of type to disease or infection. You're correct that type supremacy is a dumb idea, but I also think it is perhaps unhealthy to use something like the Enneagram in such a disparaging way, to self and to others. You're right that it's about growth, but it's not about growth away from what you are, because what you are is "_awful_" or something, but rather growth in a direction that leads you to greater understanding of yourself and triumph over shortcomings.

I get you're frustrated, probably with more than just what you say you see on this forum. I would think, then, that the "boastfulness" you refer to may actually just be people seeing the positive aspects in themselves that they didn't realize before, which I think is the _healthy manifestation of the insights type can give us_. It may seem arrogant if such is your notion on stagnation, but try not to be so hard on others -- it may make you see yourself in a more positive light as well.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Inguz said:


> I'm fucking annoyed by the attitude the ennegram forum has, people don't want to grow, it's more or less used as an identity. Since being a type 6 is like being HIV positive I can say one thing — the 6 forum is in my opinion probably the most focused on discussing type-related insecurities from a very personal perspective, as in actually wanting to grow. As such it continues the cycle when people walk in to the 6 forum and get hit by it, there's no glorification of the insecurities as can be seen in the 4 forum, as an example.
> 
> Touching on the subject of anger, ALL reactive types can have truly explosive anger which commonly is associated with type 8. Here's a quote from Naranjo's _Character and Neurosis_ about distinguishing type 4 from 7:
> 
> ...


Well now that I've gotten my hands on *an actual Enneagram book* that people always talk about.
I might find a way to understand this stuff and stop doing those very things.
Thank @Inguz such material is sorely needed on my end.


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## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks for the link to the book...it was interesting and said some things I don't see a lot (specifically the connection of type 7 to Ni, which obviously was of interest to me...although 'compulsively gentle' seems like a bit of an odd thing to describe 7s as, especially 7w8..I'd like to know where that came from).

More on topic: Yeah, Enneagram is more about your flaws than MBTI is and you're actually supposed to work on those even if you don't want to...the 7 forum is unfortunately not all that active though so I don't usually discuss my actual struggles and instead run around to other areas of the forum shouting about which fictional characters and songs remind me of which types. But hey that's fun too.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

I don't think I can add anything else to what's already been said. I've commented on this issue in a like manner many times in the past. I agree, type 6 has gotten a bum rap, and most of that does not come from this particular message board (which has many members who have been indispensable in undoing the misperceptions that have reigned in the past). I can't say much more on that matter than I already have.


My remaining question would be this:


_*Where have types 4 and 5 been glorified?*_


I've never actually understood this. I understand type 8 glorification--they're portrayed as conquering heroes in RH. But types 4 and 5??? I've never seen anything I've actually liked about them. These were the two types I was stuck between for years because they remind me of things about myself I do not like. 


I felt like type 5 was the socially-incompetent alien who could come out of her shell and who'd habitually get beat up on the playground for being a nerd, and type 4 was the self-pitying, whining, unlovable, melodramatic loser who couldn't get over herself (read: my childhood and adolescence). Not trying to de-glorify these types, but being influenced by both, I don't get who'd want it--yes, these types do suck. Like all the others.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

RoSoDude said:


> Am I missing something here? I wasn't really aware that the board had problems with 6 hate. Perhaps I joined after this was no longer the norm, or I just didn't notice it when I did.


Yeah, you_ are_ actually missing something.

It's not so much on this message board, at least not anymore. I wasn't around for this, but apparently folks would have a million reasons why they couldn't be a 6 "back in the day". Most of those were ill-informed reasons, like "I don't have a peer group" and "I'm not a sheeple" and "I have my shit together too much"...and stuff. (Maybe @Boss can fill in the details more--like I said, this is only an impression I've drawn). People misunderstood the type and picked up on superficial qualities they had read about on websites written by equally misinformed people.

And yes, there is a _lot_ of misinformation floating around on the internet regarding type 6. You never hear insulting misinformation about how 4s are obnoxious complainers who lie around and do nothing, or how 9s just arrogantly shut everyone else out of their little bubble...but you hear plenty of remarks like, _In cp 6s, even if they pretend to be tough and strong you just see the insecurity and fear in their eyes... _and _Until now, I've been very forgiving of 6s' reactivity, thinking it had something to do with low self-esteem.

_Kind of stupid, right? But there's TONS and TONS of this stuff, on one message board in particular. This sort of thinking really has dominated over the last decade, and not only is it insulting, it's inaccurate. Before coming to PerC, I didn't even know this. And I'm willing to be I'm not the only person who's had this experience.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@holyrockthrower

Just link him to your 6 hate thread. 

And yeah, around summer last year when you were around, we were listening to people bark about shit like "i am not a 6 because i like myself" / "i am not a 6 because i am not afraid of leaving the house at night"/ "i am not a 6 because i don't have anxiety/ insert dumbass reason. Whether or not they were a 6 (usually people saying this were mistyped 6s) is irrelevant. There used to be a pretty strong anti-6 bias on this forum. It took me (and some others) well about a year to address negative stereotyping of superego ego types, not just 6s. It caused a shit load of drama and butthurt in its wake, which you witnessed, and it was well worth it. Entertainment is good. Things are far better now. 

And, I am glad you started your thread because until a self-typed 6 addressed it directly, anyone else addressing these stereotypes, was mostly seen a self-glorifying tool aiming to win a popularity context among the 6s. As you know, these stereotypes led to a lot of mistreatment of typees, especially on typing threads, and just an all around negative attitude towards the type; it wasn't the best environment for people (younger people i mean) who typed as 6s or people who were considering the type for themselves. My tolerance for bullshit and lack of objectivity is rather low. Here we are. Things crop up every now and then, but there have been some very pertinent changes. 

I like to see this place sensible and discussions productive. Much of the zomg6hate crap is behind is now.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Boss said:


> And yeah, around summer last year when you were around, we were listening to people bark about shit like "i am not a 6 because i like myself" / "i am not a 6 because i am not afraid of leaving the house at night"/ "i am not a 6 because i don't have anxiety/ insert dumbass reason. Whether or not they were a 6 (usually people saying this were mistyped 6s) is irrelevant. There used to be a pretty strong anti-6 bias on this forum. It took me (and some others) well about a year to address negative stereotyping of superego ego types, not just 6s. It caused a shit load of drama and butthurt in its wake, which you witnessed, and it was well worth it. Entertainment is good. Things are far better now.


Wow. That was this past summer? I know I heard people talking about 6 hate, and I saw at least one drama with an unfortunate mistypee, but I must have been like totally impervious. Most of my perceptions of 6-hate actually come from other websites. *rethinks social-last*

Oh, here's the link:
*​*http://personalitycafe.com/type-6-forum-loyalist/114097-sixes-weakest-type-other-lies.html


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Personally, I've always wanted to know why. I dont get it. I dont get why so many people (and so many of those people mistyped 6s) hate it so much. I would love to hear it from someone who, despite being a 6 themselves, hate the type so much. Because thats something I've seen all over the fucking place and I think that is more of a problem.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

holyrockthrower said:


> _*Where have types 4 and 5 been glorified?*_
> 
> 
> I've never actually understood this. I understand type 8 glorification--they're portrayed as conquering heroes in RH. But types 4 and 5??? I've never seen anything I've actually liked about them. These were the two types I was stuck between for years because they remind me of things about myself I do not like.
> ...


I think perhaps we need a thread with serious discussion about these three types, not just 8, but 4, 5 and 8. And done so a bit more constructively than this thread. I can second what you write and I do not see what is desirable at all about those two types for that very reason. I don't like that I can be a whiney ass, I don't like that I can spend my entire day inside the apartment staring at my computer screen because it's easier than dealing with actual life. 

The problem I think part comes from that to some... being seen as say, introverted, or whiney or whatever, or gloomy (I've used this description a lot for 4w5) is that some people still see it as some kind of glorification. I personally don't see the positive aspect of being gloomy but perhaps to some it is attractive. 

Anyway, I also think it's important and not do the opposite as well and go too far with the deconstructioning as to create stereotypes either. I am for example noticing a tendency among people in this subforum where 5s are depicted as boring and uninteresting because they are withdrawn as a type, and thus unsociable. 

The thing is, this isn't true. A 5 can be very sociable and even though descriptions might say that a 5 will just sit in a corner and endlessly observe, especially the sp dom type, as Maybe pointed out to me today and I realize this is true for myself as well, that 5 still has a connection to 7 and 8, both assertive types. An actual 5, especially when average to healthy, is not going to sit in a corner and speak in a mechanical tone to people when asked about life. I was watching Bones today and I could see how some people imagine 5s being like Temperance Brennan who only spews out facts upon facts and has no interpersonal skills but that's not a real life 5. Yes, I can be very keen on spewing facts (as I am doing now) and correcting people and their perceptions (which has before made people think of me as arrogant) and while I think I got poor interpersonal skills compared to other people, I'm not an Aspie even though I thought I was. 

As for a more general point, I also wish to make a distinction between disliking people because they exhibit traits that is common for their type and disliking the type itself. I do have a difficulty with some CP 6s. Something that they do just rubs me the wrong way. It does however not mean that I think every 6 is going to be like that or I hate 6s as a whole as people. I am after all friends with some 6s. 

I think perhaps also when we write on a forum we have a tendency to make sweeping statements about type without clarifying that it is actually not necessarily the type we dislike but the person of that type, because that person in particular exhibits negative traits that can be explained by the type but it is that negative trait we ultimately dislike, and thus the person exhibiting them, rather than the type itself. 

As for the general 6 hate, I have to say I'm surprised but I haven't been around for that long to have noticed it, really. I guess I can kind of see what makes you 6s upset about that general attitude because that's just stupid.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I think perhaps we need a thread with serious discussion about these three types, not just 8, but 4, 5 and 8. And done so a bit more constructively than this thread. I can second what you write and I do not see what is desirable at all about those two types for that very reason. I don't like that I can be a whiney ass, I don't like that I can spend my entire day inside the apartment staring at my computer screen because it's easier than dealing with actual life.
> 
> The problem I think part comes from that to some... being seen as say, introverted, or whiney or whatever, or gloomy (I've used this description a lot for 4w5) is that some people still see it as some kind of glorification. I personally don't see the positive aspect of being gloomy but perhaps to some it is attractive.


By all means...start that thread!!


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Experiences differ?
> 
> I and did mention the 4s as an example of a type who might wear it on their sleeve, part because I think the type descriptions are so emphasized on 4s being emotionally neurotic.


Lol the point that I was trying to make was that wearing your issues on your sleeve isn't really exclusive to certain type over others. It's not just reserved to 4s or 6s.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Lol the point that I was trying to make was that wearing your issues on your sleeve isn't really exclusive to certain type over others. It's not just reserved to 4s or 6s.


1 - I have issues, but I'm working on them.

2 - I have issues - I know you do, too.

3 - I have issues, and when I sort them out I'm going to be awesome.

4 - I have issues, and they're troubling.

5 - I have issues, and it will take some time to solve them...

6 - I have issues, and they are among many things that need to be addressed.

7 - I have issues, but they're not too terrible.

8 - I have issues, they'll be conquered.

9 - I have issues, but doesn't everyone?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Lol the point that I was trying to make was that wearing your issues on your sleeve isn't really exclusive to certain type over others. It's not just reserved to 4s or 6s.


And I didn't say it was.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> And I didn't say it was.





LeaT said:


> Experiences differ?
> 
> *I and did mention the 4s as an example of a type who might wear it on their sleeve, part because I think the type descriptions are so emphasized on 4s being emotionally neurotic*.


You sure, bro? Your diction says otherwise. :3 
/lawyered


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> You sure, bro? Your diction says otherwise. :3
> /lawyered


You just had to -.- I was bringing it up as a counter-examples to 6s to express I didn't think it was unique to 6s by any means -.-


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> And I didn't say it was.





LeaT said:


> You just had to -.- I was bringing it up as a counter-examples to 6s to express I didn't think it was unique to 6s by any means -.-


Awwwww don't be mad. :3
I needed clarification~


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Awwwww don't be mad. :3
> I needed clarification~


I'm not, you're just fucking hopeless XD


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I'm not, you're just fucking hopeless XD


The sentiment is returned. :wink:


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> The sentiment is returned. :wink:


I wouldn't expect anything less, no.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

is this a common thing - ESFP vs INTP?


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

fourtines said:


> A 4 could make a scene and probably be gleeful in their solitary outcast position, while when 6 has rallied up the troops or simply stood alone on their soap box and pointed out the emperor has no clothes, when the guy with the hook and cane comes to yank the 6 off the stage, the 6 still needs group approval, and will go out seeking a posse. I actually got accused on another web site of having a posse that I maneuvered around the site to help me bully others. I was aghast, because the last time I checked, all my posse ever did was told me shit that people say behind my back in my absence.
> 
> So of course as a 6 it feels good to hear that you belong somewhere, to some group, because you really hate to not belong, even though your life's duty is to be divisive and probably make some people hate you.
> 
> ...


I love, love, love your posts, Fourtines! And, you just listed all the reasons I love type 6. This is what made me originally think it was like the ideal type...and also why I thought I couldn't be one. I WISH I could rally troops, or affect people, or do glamorous stuff on a soap-box. 

~You are my hero.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

holyrockthrower said:


> I love, love, love your posts, Fourtines! And, you just listed all the reasons I love type 6. This is what made me originally think it was like the ideal type...and also why I thought I couldn't be one. I WISH I could rally troops, or affect people, or do glamorous stuff on a soap-box.
> 
> ~You are my hero.


Haha wow thanks a bunch. You made my night! :kitteh:


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

soya said:


> is this a common thing - ESFP vs INTP?


I don't think so. I think it's a common thing in EII - XXX gamma. Whenever she can truthfully settle on her type because I still doubt SEE XD


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

soya said:


> is this a common thing - ESFP vs INTP?





LeaT said:


> I don't think so. I think it's a common thing in EII - XXX gamma. Whenever she can truthfully settle on her type because I still doubt SEE XD


Well if you haven't noticed I'm pretty much settled on my type at this point, whether you accept viewing me that way or not.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Well if you haven't noticed I'm pretty much settled on my type at this point, whether you accept viewing me that way or not.


And I still see you coming up with things that would point against your type, ergo


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## Rachael (Sep 29, 2012)

Inguz said:


> Since being a type 6 is like being HIV positive


OMG. That is literally the funniest thing I have ever read on here! Very assute analogy. I find this very enlightening. Thank you.


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

I haven't seen the anti-6 talk in action, just heard about it from other members (although it doesn't surprise me because it's brought up often). I personally don't understand it, because I love 6s. Maybe I'm just biased? Two people in my family are 6s, and my best friend is a 6, and I find I usually get along very well with 6s in general.

Either way, I guess what I'm saying is: if you 6s had a fan club, I'd join!


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Yep, @RoSoDude, I came to the forum just as the Six hate had reached a climax, I think, and a bunch of members were trying hard to beat down the stereotypes. I remember seeing the Six hate begin to die down. It started dying down about the time the Sensor-hate started dying down (and thank goodness for that). Here are two things I still think need to be addressed on these forums: 

1) Looking at the "surface level" to understand the types. 

and 

2) Not focusing on growth. 

When you look at each type's surface, some types will look better than others. The surface looks more desirable, more pretty. More likable. 

It is so easy to mistype as Five, Four, and Eight because I think it is hardest to see why their motivations are "bad", really -- or it's hard to understand what they are really motivated by and how that plays out in the first place. 

Their personas, their surfaces, look "cool". The intellectual, the artist, and the tough guy. On the surface, you see Fives who hoard knowledge, Fours who feel different, and Eights who are driven by anger. If you look no deeper, then these types look "good". I mean, what is so bad about those traits, really? In comparison to other types who don't really have a "cool" persona, like Twos who help to be helped, likes Sixes who are easily recognized as being driven by _fear _(and nobody seems to know what that really means anyways -- they see the word 'fear' and think, gosh, all types are driven by some fear. I guess this one has to be paranoid), and like Ones who are quite honestly just seen as the conservative perfectionist sorts, driven by this inner critic or something. 

Hardly ever do people look deeper at what truly motivates the types. Dig deeper, and eventually you find how the ego-defenses really play out, and that's when it hurts. But when we only look surface level, slowly we start to form biases. Seven, Nine, and Three are "acceptable" types. Eight, Five, and Four are "cool". I note that types One, Two, and Six are probably most prone to be "disliked" right off the bat, and what's curious about this is that they are superego types. I think they are probably some of the hardest types to understand when you just get into the Enneagram. 

And I also note that a lot of this bias is cultural. "Avarice" and "envy" look a lot more desirable than "fear". At least where I live, it's more acceptable to be seen as selfish or greedy or something than to be a Two which is seen as "fake" and "desperate". "Trying too hard". 

Apparently, some vices are better than others. But it takes actually really looking past the surface to see exactly why each type is no better or worse than any other. Why if we let ourselves be constantly swayed by our ego defenses, we'd all be awful in our own little ways. And even on the "surface" it wouldn't look pretty, not one bit. There'd be no happy image. 

And this gross misunderstanding of type leads to another topic I don't think is addressed enough on these forums. 

Yes, growth. I do notice that on the Six forum, there's more conversations about how to conquer our insecurities, our doubts. Basically, our vice. Maybe because Six was never glorified, so we just want to move past those ugly ego defenses quickly. It's easy to see "fear" as ugly. But sometimes I noticed on, for example, the Four forum, the conversations don't seem to be bent towards the direction of growth (this isn't just the Four forum, guys, it's everywhere). It seems sometimes to be more "commiserating" in the problems being a Four (or Fill In the Blank) creates (like, for example, feeling disconnected to people, feeling kind of like you've got to 'come down' to them) -- but you don't often see a thread of how to conquer these feelings (once again -- this is not just the Four forum). There's always a way to conquer it. The problems of each Enneagram type are _not _insurmountable, and it quite honestly saddens me to see people find their type and then let it limit them_. _Make it insurmountable and nothing will change. You'll just get caught in a vicious cycle.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

I don't hate sixes. They are in fact among my favorite people to talk to. I feel like they can help me and I can help them. It's nice. 

Just wanted to state that since it seems a lot of sixes feel that others don't appreciate them.

Typism is lame.

(I guess one could say my positive comment is still typism, but I'm referring to people I know in real life - the sixes I know are interesting. I guess it's not good to generalize. whatever.)


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Tincan said:


> A lot of people give ESFJs on this forum shit, but they thrive in real life just as other types. I can't quite find a point to my post or think of a way to end this..


Where is this going on and why haven't I read it? Typism is not tolerated by the mods and admins, so I'm guessing you are misinterpreting something else as "giving ESFJ's shit..."


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