# Something that I Don't Understand about SPs and Stability



## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

A while ago I had a good conversation with @fourtines (an ISFP) about different goals and motivations in life, and one big point we discussed was how SJs (especially an ISJ like me) and SPs often have very different ways to be successful in life and feel like they're achieving their goals.

As obvious as it may seem, the main point centered around the typical J vs. P divide. As an ISJ, I can only feel happy and at ease if I have a sense of security. I crave consistency, and I always strive to know that no matter how much time passes, everything with be all right. This not only applies to things like health and emotional relationships, but most importantly the basic desire to be financially secure. It just makes me feel at peace knowing that all of my physical needs (as well as some general comforts) will be met.


Now, before learning about the MBTI, I assumed that everyone had this general desire...to know they'll have a job and be financially ok.


However, I've learned that SPs are much better than I am at adapting to a variety of situations. I've learned that in general, they're fine with taking things day by day, and they don't worry so much about always having everything taken care of already. In fact, they probably find that quite boring, and would prefer the excitement of not knowing how things will turn out.

(Like usual, I'm just speaking generally here...I know there's a lot of variation between the four SP types on this, and I know it varies from person to person).


So I've learned that not everyone has the same desire/need for security that I do.



But what I still don't understand is the difference between a happy/successful SP and an unhappy/unsuccessful SP when it comes to financial stability. Is there a line somewhere between these two areas? What's the difference between an SP who is ok with not knowing how things will turn out and who likes the challenge/adventure of needing to adapt to a new situation and one who is worried about never being financially independent? (assuming there are SPs who worry about this). 


What is it that would make an SP unhappy when it comes to this area? What determines the difference between a carefree, happy lifestyle and one where there is worry about the future?



I guess this just another area where I'm trying to figure out how similar an SP would be to me, and how different they would be from me.

(And I do totally understand that different SPs are going to answer this in different ways, and that one doesn't speak for all. In fact, I think it will be interesting to hear how different SPs will answer a question like this in different ways). 


I'm very curious to hear any input any SP can give.


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## seeg (Jan 7, 2010)

I used to not care about my future. I just assumed that everything would work out fine.

However, as I've got older I've started to worry more about security and whether I will have a good paying job, have money when I'm old etc. I think part of that concern comes from mistakes I may have made in my past (that I didn't realise the ramifications of at the time) and how they will affect my future.

So I guess what makes me unhappy is the thought that my past may have damaged my future financial stability.
Things that make me happy are the thought that I can adapt to what comes my way and make the most of it anyway. Also knowing that life can take a whole load of different turns gives me hope that things can change for the better (and equally for the worse I guess, but I don't think about that aspect!)


I guess I am ok not knowing how things will turn out providing I have an underlying level of confidence in my current situation.


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## MilkyWay132 (Jul 15, 2010)

*nevermind this message


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## Sayonara (May 11, 2012)

It's really hard to explain lol. I guess lack of financial stability doesn't really scare me much, because the tide can easily turn on you just like -that- For example, I used to have a pretty good credit rating for example, but became a victim of ID theft and now its in shambles. It's like, well damn. So I work hard to build good credit and it can be gone in the blink of an eye just like that? 

That wasn't the only thing either. Anytime I've actually tried to make an investment with money, whether it's to take some new classes or what not for better chances at a good job, it just seems like when I make the effort to work hard and to plan (which really isn't my forte), things never go right. So I've just adapted to the fact that my future will never be secure and appreciate what I have in this moment, which is an awful lot.

I know it sounds extremely cliche, but that's really how I feel.


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## chrisu (Mar 6, 2012)

i had debts and was worried to lose my job/get sick/ ... until i finally paid them off. debts tie you down. you just can't afford to earn less than you did when you agreed on the terms.

but now... i don't mind moving if there's no job here, i'm not too proud to do something i'm overeducated for, i don't mind another change of field, i am able to live a happy life even with minimum wage, i don't have any expensive dreams i want to fulfill and i have no debts to pay off.
*shrugs* why worry?


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## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

chrisu said:


> but now... i don't mind moving if there's no job here, i'm not too proud to do something i'm overeducated for, i don't mind another change of field


Yeah, I think that's a big part of the reason why SPs are so good at not worrying about the future...because they have so many things that they feel comfortable doing, so it opens up more of their options.

For example, I have dominant Si as an ISFJ, and I can't imagine myself being happy living in another place. This isn't true for all ISJs, and certainly not true for all SJs (I have an ESTJ friend who's lived in all kinds of different places and he says he gets bored living in one city for more than 3 years). But for me, I'm so attached to so many things around where I live that I can't picture myself being as happy in another place.

Most people I talk to find this very boring. When they "settle down" in one place, it's usually because they *have* to...due to being able to find a job, financing a home, raising a family, etc. 

So it's interesting to see how the two ways of life each have their own advantages depending on the situation. For someone whose options to move are limited, it's more advantageous to be someone like me. But for someone whose options involve making a lot of changes, it's more advantageous to be an SP.


So that's a piece of the puzzle that I hadn't thought about...it gives some good insight. A lot of times an SP won't worry not only because they are generally more adaptable and focus on the present, but also because they generally have more options in life because they don't make as many attachments. 




chrisu said:


> , i am able to live a happy life even with minimum wage, i don't have any expensive dreams i want to fulfill and i have no debts to pay off.
> *shrugs* why worry?



I think that's another very huge piece to this, because I think a large number of people would not be happy living off of minimum wage (though I could be wrong). That's a great thing, because it also greatly increases your options. I don't know if there's a strong connection between this and being an SP (since different people have different aspirations), but I think it's a good mentality because it really helps to make the most of life.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

It isn't about not having having security for me.
I like security.
Having lots of money saved is great.
It is how you go about it and what standards you have set for yourself.
I know that I don't have as many safety nets as many J's have.
My life is a mess from the outside, but it works for me as long as I don't buy into others standards.
If I do that I've lost. Cause then I will be struggling to live up to someone elses idea of what is important.
Only I can know what is important in my life. 
Cause in the end the only person that I have to account to for living the way I did is myself.
Nobody else really care how I live. They may say so in the moment as an attempt to manipulate me,
but in the final analys only me and my standards matter.

I have no problem setting up safety nets if I belive that they will benifit me more than detract from my life.
Lots of things can be safety nets.
Knowledge, money, social connections, jobs, location and assets.

Some J type could probably order the different types of safety nets into types and chart out how they connect and stuff like that.
I have a more pragmatic approach. I look at a safety net and ask how much energy do I have to expend to set it up?
Does it require upkeep? Does it benefit me more than it detracts from my life?
I do this on a gut level most times. I can sit down and analyze to a degree, but I generally trust my gut level feeling
in issues like these.

From my perspective I can see the benefits of living like a J having multiple nets set up and lots of slack to deal with problems.
I just couldn't live like that. That way of living would stress me out.

Now that doen't mean I wouldn't stive for saftey nets just that my way of choosing what nets to put up vary quite a lot from
the J way. I also think that positivity and negativity affect how you view stuf like this too.


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## chrisu (Mar 6, 2012)

teddy564339 said:


> But for me, I'm so attached to so many things around where I live that I can't picture myself being as happy in another place.


aye.. my partner is like that and we crash on the topic regularely 



teddy564339 said:


> I don't know if there's a strong connection between this and being an SP (since different people have different aspirations)


*nods* i rather connect that to my childhood than to my type - the best childhood memories are holidays in a trailer. luxory is a chocolate-filled croissant.


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

I honestly don't worry about these things at all. Why worry about tomorrow when you can live today? 
I just figure everything will work out for the best and if it doesn't oh well, I'll deal with it then.
My ISFJ friend has forced herself into a career in law that she hates and would always be so close to failing university every semester because she didn't care about and/or understand the material. She wanted to be a visual art student but she knew that it wouldn't give her the stable income that she needed. As for me, I refuse to live my life that way. While I'm here, I'm going to enjoy it. You only live once. My friend and I really don't see eye to eye in that regard. I tell her to chill out and she tells me that I don't worry enough. I definitely see what you're saying, SP's and SJ's seem to have a very different way of thinking.


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## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

paper lilies said:


> I honestly don't worry about these things at all. Why worry about tomorrow when you can live today?
> I just figure everything will work out for the best and if it doesn't oh well, I'll deal with it then.
> My ISFJ friend has forced herself into a career in law that she hates and would always be so close to failing university every semester because she didn't care about and/or understand the material. She wanted to be a visual art student but she knew that it wouldn't give her the stable income that she needed. As for me, I refuse to live my life that way. While I'm here, I'm going to enjoy it. You only live once. My friend and I really don't see eye to eye in that regard. I tell her to chill out and she tells me that I don't worry enough. I definitely see what you're saying, SP's and SJ's seem to have a very different way of thinking.



Yeah, ISFJs do often have issues with over-worrying. I think this is down to inferior Ne, which leads us to imagine worst case scenarios. It does help us a lot to not over-plan or over-worry about everything, and we should learn to take life one day at a time, and to make the most out of our lives. 

That being said, I don't think we would be happy never planning anything out, either. As I've mentioned, we just don't have the natural adaptive abilities that SPs do...this is the downside to having Si instead of Se.


I can't speak of how it goes from the SP perspective, but I would imagine there is a certain balance that is true for SPs as well. I think just about everyone would agree that is it not beneficial in the long term to do everything that someone wants to do in the moment and make no plans for the future, because eventually a person might put themselves in a situation where they can't get out of. For example, in the long term it's best for one to be aware of one's health. If someone smokes, or if someone continuously eats unhealthily with no regard to the long term effects, then they are likely to one day reach a point where the consequences can put them in a very unfortunate health situation that they can't get out of. They may at that point feel regret for not controlling their urges, and there would be no way for them to get back the missed time or to fix their mistakes.



To me, for all people it's really about finding a balance. One should make the most of every day of their life, but should also not live with no regards to the future. It may not be a perfect 50-50 balance for every person...a J may be happier planning more and a P may be happier being more spontaneous...but I think there's value to both.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

@teddy564339


> To me, for all people it's really about finding a balance. One should make the most of every day of their life, but should also not live with no regards to the future. It may not be a perfect 50-50 balance for every person...a J may be happier planning more and a P may be happier being more spontaneous...but I think there's value to both.


I think J's and P's can learn from each other.
It is easy to go to far in either direction.
I learned a lot of helpful things about planning and being consistent from writing on the INTJ forum.
However I still have a very P approach to life compared to most J's.

I'm investing energy on education at the moment. It seem very frivolus to me the whole diploma thing.
Why do I need that piece of paper?
It is in a way a safety net. 
When you have it, doors open that wouldn't have if you just learned it on your own.
It is hard for me to accept though that I need to force myself trough that process to get that net.


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## ParfaitMan (Mar 26, 2012)

Se is pure skill. My Ti makes me cool-headed and my Se makes me just about competent enough to do anything I desire. I strongly believe that I could maneuver my way through any sticky situation. I'm self-reliant.


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## emperor_domi (May 2, 2012)

I worry about not being financially secure because of my upbringing and I want to be able to do what I damn well please, and so that I don't have to work or deal with people for the rest of my life.


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## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

@teddy564339 Personally my sense of safety/security would come from not having to stress. Financial security could be one way to get it, but personally I feel like it would be counterproductive as I don't want to put myself through the stress involved in getting there, and the stress of keeping it that way. Main point I guess is that I personally am looking for emotional security, not material security. I'd rather have a hole in my pocket but with gold in my heart, than having a hole for a heart with gold in my pocket.


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## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

Inguz said:


> @_teddy564339_ Personally my sense of safety/security would come from not having to stress. Financial security could be one way to get it, but personally I feel like it would be counterproductive as I don't want to put myself through the stress involved in getting there, and the stress of keeping it that way. Main point I guess is that I personally am looking for emotional security, not material security. I'd rather have a hole in my pocket but with gold in my heart, than having a hole for a heart with gold in my pocket.



I think that's interesting because it might be very related to the difference between Si and Fi.


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## Marac (Mar 26, 2012)

ParfaitMan said:


> Se is pure skill. My Ti makes me cool-headed and my Se makes me just about competent enough to do anything I desire. I strongly believe that I could maneuver my way through any sticky situation. I'm self-reliant.


Aye!

In many occasions I have dealt with things as they've come up and improvised and actually outperformed those who have planned a lot in advance.

So, I'm certain that things will work out in the future, because I am very adaptable. 

I also think it is important to enjoy what you are doing right NOW. Ultimately, the future is uncertain and at some point we all end up dead. Better to make the most out of every moment.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

well, we should just get ourselves an SJ and have them take care of us..problem solved!
j/k 

I definitely care a lot about security and stability, but the thing is that if I don't see any imminent threat to that, I won't think about it or I won't think about contingencies, I would just...well, go with the flow and enjoy life.


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## teddy564339 (Jun 23, 2010)

ParfaitMan said:


> Se is pure skill. My Ti makes me cool-headed and my Se makes me just about competent enough to do anything I desire. I strongly believe that I could maneuver my way through any sticky situation. I'm self-reliant.





emperor_domi said:


> I worry about not being financially secure because of my upbringing and I want to be able to do what I damn well please, and so that I don't have to work or deal with people for the rest of my life.





Inguz said:


> @_teddy564339_ Personally my sense of safety/security would come from not having to stress. Financial security could be one way to get it, but personally I feel like it would be counterproductive as I don't want to put myself through the stress involved in getting there, and the stress of keeping it that way. Main point I guess is that I personally am looking for emotional security, not material security. I'd rather have a hole in my pocket but with gold in my heart, than having a hole for a heart with gold in my pocket.





Marac said:


> Aye!
> 
> In many occasions I have dealt with things as they've come up and improvised and actually outperformed those who have planned a lot in advance.
> 
> ...





Kayness said:


> well, we should just get ourselves an SJ and have them take care of us..problem solved!
> j/k
> 
> I definitely care a lot about security and stability, but the thing is that if I don't see any imminent threat to that, I won't think about it or I won't think about contingencies, I would just...well, go with the flow and enjoy life.




So I think all of these posts confirm the idea that Se lives in the moment and is therefore very adaptable. This also means that SPs in general don't have as much need for security, at least not in the physical sense.


But I'm still having trouble finding the answer to my OP: what is the difference between an SP who's happy with their situation in life and one who is not? I still don't know if I've gotten a strong understanding of the answer to this question.



What I am starting to think, though, is that the state of an SP fluctuates much more than that of an SJ. 

For example, an SJ may reach a point in their lives that they're happy, and they may feel that way for a long time...it kind of stabilizes. But then, something might happen to threaten this, and the SJ then drops down to a state where they don't feel as good, and this may stay stable for a while. It may take them longer to work their way out of the situation and adapt to it, but when they do, they keep it that way.


What I'm starting to think is that for SPs, they may bounce back and forth between these kinds of emotional states much more frequently. They may feel good for a small bit, and then have something change to where they crash down, but then they may quickly go back up again.



I know this is hard to analyze because there are so many facets to how one feels emotionally. But I guess I'm just trying to figure out how this works in an SP compared to myself as an ISJ. Even though SPs are stereotypically carefree, I have a hard time believing that any one type is "happier" than any other, even though happiness means different things to different types.


But I also think there is a difference in how happy one person of one type may vary from another person of the same type. I have a good feel for the kinds of things that generally stress out and bother ISFJs, and what they(we) can do to help improve in those situations. 

But I don't get quite how it works with SPs. 


So if any of you have any further insight into my thoughts here or this question, I'd be interested.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

teddy564339 said:


> what is the difference between an SP who's happy with their situation in life and one who is not?.


If I get a lot of space (free of lots of constrictions..like..i have to do this..i have to do that. etc...well, most of these comes from demands imposed by people) and freedom to do what I enjoy (which in this case is art) and I can see that I have a potential to achieve something bigger and be more successful in my career, like, knowing that I have the ability to do so, but I just have to earn it by working hard, be focused and build up my network...then I'm happy with my situation in life.


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## Marac (Mar 26, 2012)

teddy564339 said:


> But I'm still having trouble finding the answer to my OP: what is the difference between an SP who's happy with their situation in life and one who is not? I still don't know if I've gotten a strong understanding of the answer to this question.
> 
> 
> What I'm starting to think is that for SPs, they may bounce back and forth between these kinds of emotional states much more frequently. They may feel good for a small bit, and then have something change to where they crash down, but then they may quickly go back up again.
> ...


I can only speak for myself, but for me what determines whether or not I am happy is if I enjoy what I am doing in my present situation and if I feel my life is moving in the direction that I want.

Some examples:
A few months ago I quit what I was studying (mechanical engineering), because I really didn't enjoy the kind of work we were doing (mainly calculus and mechanics) and that made me feel like my life was on the wrong track (which made me very unhappy).

Right now I am retaking some subjects from high school in order to improve my grades, so that I can get into architecture. I don't enjoy the work I am doing, but the fact that I am moving towards a life, which I am certain that I will enjoy a lot, makes me happy. 

I also become happy when I get involved in something that takes my mind off the future (particularly if the future is not looking so bright). So, when I was studying engineering, I partied often and whenever I did that I felt very blissful. Same thing when I am playing video games or involved in something creative like visual art.


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