# Hello, New Here, have a problem



## textbooker (Jan 21, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I don't know if I am posting this in the right place or not. If I have, I do apologize. 

I and my wife have a problem. I am an ENTJ and my wife is an ISTJ. We have an 18 year old daughter who is an ENFJ. 

Here is the problem. My daughter started college back in August of 2012 at age 18. All her life she has been almost the perfect child, but this year, that has changed. I know it is a rough time of life for her. She graduated from high school with honors and got several scholarships to college, a full ride. She started out pre-med but that was a bit ambitious for her. She has switched to a math major. She is an adult at 18 but she is giving her mother and I all kinds of attitude about rules, which we really only ask her to tell us where she will be going and when to expect her home and to do a few chores, once a week kinds of things, nothing major. 

She has basically refused to do anything and treats us as if we are dirt. My wife and I sacrificed to send her to private school, we get her a car, provide her with everything she could ever need or realistically want. She has actually flew off the handle when my wife asked her some questions, not intrusive or nosy, about what she was up to and she completely flew off the handle and she says she hates living in our house and wants to leave so badly but cannot because she doesn't have the money. She said if she actually went away to college in another city and lived in the dorms, she could do what she wanted and we would never know. As it is, she will go out on weekends and not come in until 3 am or stay out all night. 

She really hurt my wife and quite frankly, that pissed me off royally. What I want to know, is what is the best way to get through to her and her personality type, ENFJ, so she will really think about what she has done and how she hurt her mother. 

I am thinking about confronting her and just verbally lite into her and tell her she REALLY hurt her mother and she must really hate her and her mother does not deserve that, and neither do I. Then go on to say how we have sacrificed much for her, the school, the car, even to the point of giving up some meals for so she could have what she needed. I would even accuse her of just using us and not loving us, throwing her mother away like a rag doll and let her know she has been a self centered little shrew. 

She is stubborn at some things and she has a short temper, but she is a very feeling person. My first thought is to just lay into her when she comes in and refuse to even let her talk to her mother until she has had time to reall to think about what she has done and then threaten to take away her car, her cell phone and take her down to the local military recruiting center and tell her she can enlist if she really feels that way about us and then never come back. At this point, my thought are that would be a bluff, but as I see it, we really need to heavily impress on her that she really hurt her mother. What say you all?


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## esq (Jun 7, 2012)

ENFJ math major? Is that working out for her? Maybe there is even some other calling she would more appreciate. Anyway she expresses to you a desire for space, personal responsibilty, adulthood, etc. It's for you to decide how to ease her into making decisions for herself. She will find her freedom one way or another and you perhaps wish to keep pleasant relations. Probably she would not be displeased if you found a good job for her. Also I assume that the ENFJ is not inclined towards physical labor/chores. Maybe introduce her to a boyfriend who will clean things for her. Basically you can help by giving her the stuff she needs to live her own life away from you. That seems to be what she is asking for, a release from parently bonds. As for the rest, I do not prefer to yell at people so I could not give much advice on how to verbally abuse her, etc.

However I am her conflictor and perhaps my advice will only manage to insult her, etc. Omg.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

*blink* I find myself wondering whether this post is serious. You sound pretty frustrated, so maybe that's why you're suggesting these kinds of tactics; but good god, please don't actually do them.

I'm not a parent, and I haven't seen both sides of the story, so there isn't a ton I can say here. Most of it would just be speculation based on underlying issues that I perceive in your post. That said: if you have a problem, spell it out to her. Tell her you if you're feeling under appreciated. Tell her if you're feeling hurt by her behavior. _However,_ do not throw around empty threats to scare her or use emotionally manipulative bullshit in order to make her "feel sorry". If you aren't prepared to follow through with a threat, don't make it; if she calls your bluff, you're left standing there looking like a fool.

Finally, this is the Socionics subforum, not the MBTI subforum. We're happy to answer questions or give advice here, but with the notation you're using (typically MBTI), it's difficult to tell which one you're looking for. Good luck figuring things out either way.


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## textbooker (Jan 21, 2013)

Hello,

This is for real. This has been building since early last school semester. The problem is that she has been giving attitude at the smallest little request. We give her plenty of space. What really burned me was when she flew off the handle, not the only time, but this time, it was as if she just gave her the attitude of ...."Who are YOU to tell me what I can do?!...YOU are nothing!"...my wife was crying all weekend and our daughter came off as a bitchy little shrew. I just had it. My wife was crying all weekend and felt heart broken, NOT an easy thing for an ISTJ. There was the definite air of uncaring by our daughter. The thing is we actually sacrificed to make sure she had the top schools in the area and tutors and had all the fun she wanted. She has a pet guinea pig and we have to get on her to take care of him. It genuinely hurts to see that attitude. THAT is why I am ready to lay into her. 

As for the math major...OH YES that suits her well. She clepped out of several math classes and started with Calc 1 last semester and got an A and she is in Calc 2 (as a freshman) and so far getting mostly A's in it. She LOVES math. She is a theater minor. Her high math teacher was a retired engineer and taught math exceptionally well.


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## esq (Jun 7, 2012)

So why is she complaining? Why is she unhappy? What do you think it is?

I understand that you wish she were not so hostile, but is there no motivation for her behavior?


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

well..............

welcome to teenagers. 

the great news is she isn't pregnant. 
the good news is she hasn't been arrested to your knowledge.

The normal news is she is an 18 year old. Choose your battle very very carefully. 

If it were me, I'd choose thiings which are not negotiable. Not negotiable is treating her mother with respect, and C's or better grades and clean UA's.

What is your traction? Turning off cell phones is popular, not payng for gas, no food. 

My expertise: raised 3 teens with an ex GF, have 2 of my own. 

My next advice, they are not really human from 18 to about 23. At about 23 they start turning back into human. 

None of this has anything to do with MBTI or socionics. Just another teenager story.


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## Intricate Mystic (Apr 3, 2010)

Going to college is about more than getting a degree. It's also about becoming independent from your parents...learning to live on your own, making your own decisions (including what to major in, what career to pursue), and maybe even deciding if you want to adjust your personality a bit. That is the _culture_ your daughter is in now. She's trying to fit in with the expectations of her peers and society at large about what it means to be a college student. I'm sure it must be quite frustrating for her to see classmates living on campus while she has to live at home. If so, that wouldn't mean she doesn't love you or your wife- it's just her trying to follow along with social norms for college students. She's getting the message that she should be independent from her peers and college faculty but you and your wife are still treating her like a high school student who lives at home and has chores to do. That said, there's no excuse for her to be rude to her mom and unappreciative of the sacrifices you and your wife have made for her. If you and your wife could have a calm, objective discussion with her, perhaps you all could find a compromise in which your daughter behaves more respectfully and kindly to you and her mom yet at the same time feels that you are letting her be more independent. When children grow up and are successfully independent as adults, it means you have done your job well. Of course, that's a goal of middle to upper class American culture....the goals for children in other countries and cultures may involve young adults remaining very connected to their families throughout their lives.


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## Sol_ (Jan 8, 2013)

textbooker said:


> I want to know, is what is the best way to get through to her and her personality type, ENFJ, so she will really think about what she has done and how she hurt her mother.


She's adult, - not a child, you should not demand from her more than from your friend, you should reduce control of her life. Maybe it would be usefull to give her freedom she wants, - to give her money so she could rent a room somewhere and live separately.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

textbooker said:


> Hello,
> 
> This is for real. This has been building since early last school semester. The problem is that she has been giving attitude at the smallest little request. We give her plenty of space. What really burned me was when she flew off the handle, not the only time, but this time, it was as if she just gave her the attitude of ...."Who are YOU to tell me what I can do?!...YOU are nothing!"...my wife was crying all weekend and our daughter came off as a bitchy little shrew. I just had it. My wife was crying all weekend and felt heart broken, NOT an easy thing for an ISTJ. There was the definite air of uncaring by our daughter. The thing is we actually sacrificed to make sure she had the top schools in the area and tutors and had all the fun she wanted. She has a pet guinea pig and we have to get on her to take care of him. It genuinely hurts to see that attitude. THAT is why I am ready to lay into her.
> 
> As for the math major...OH YES that suits her well. She clepped out of several math classes and started with Calc 1 last semester and got an A and she is in Calc 2 (as a freshman) and so far getting mostly A's in it. She LOVES math. She is a theater minor. Her high math teacher was a retired engineer and taught math exceptionally well.


A cousin of mine went through the same period. Around 15 years of age she turned from a sweet, caring girl into a total viper, started flipping out at the smallest requests from her parents, threw scenes yelling at them how much she hates them and how much she loves her friends instead, blackmailing them with taking her own life, as well as using drugs and not returning home some nights. She got over this phase once she went to college.

I think there were a variety of possible influences that have contributed to this. (What you're describing seems like a common phase for teenagers. But don't despair, some research has shown that teens who rebel do better later in life than those who don't, provided they don't end up doing something stupid like getting pregnant.)

She is the only child, and so her parents have invested heavily into her, both emotionally and materially. This also made them controlling of her and threatened her sense of self. Her acting out was a way to compensate for her parent's clinginess, and balance out their interaction. Do you find yourself in a similar situation? Is she your only child? You may be trying to tie her into your family while at this age she is interesting in breaking loose and becoming her own person.

Another thing that contributed to my cousin getting her way through emotional manipulation of her parents is lack of consistent parenting on their part. Her mother could not set and enforce inviolable set of rules. She would yell at her one day, and the next day ask for forgiveness, then yell at her again the next week for the same thing. This kind of parenting sets poor boundaries where the child feels like everything and anything is allowed.

In terms of socionics the SiTe and FeNi types are in conflict relations, so it's possible that your wife and daughter are grating on each other through no particular fault of their own. It's a poor combination of types where both people have a lot of trouble understanding one another, and even become suspicious about each other's motives. Types in conflict relations feel annoyance, nervousness, tension being around one another, these feelings build up and spill into open conflict.


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