# Si vs Se observancy



## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

My mom is probably a Si-user. She sounds a lot like @_fourtines_ ESFJ friend about that water on the floor thing. She doesn't cry though.

I notice a difference between Si and Se users when we go to a restaurant. My mom would always order something she has had before, not necessarily in the same restaurant. More than 90% of the time she would order Caesar salad if she wants a salad, no matter where we eat. 100% of the time she explains, "it is a safe choice." It seems to me that she reads the menu just to find out if the place serves the dish or not. She actually says a few times, "Oh there is no Ceasar salad here," and looks kind of disappointed.

I am much more inclined to try something new, although there are food I avoid. My Se doesn't discriminate the choices on the menu. They look the same as each other to me. I usually pay more attention to the choice with a photo because it tells me more about the food. My mom doesn't really do that. She usually skips the photos or doesn't trust them at all.

I always pick the dish that has a better photo of it. An ugly photo can totally turn me off. I guess it's my Fi stepping in.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

uncertain said:


> My mom is probably a Si-user. She sounds a lot like @_fourtines_ ESFJ friend about that water on the floor thing. She doesn't cry though.
> 
> I notice a difference between Si and Se users when we go to a restaurant. My mom would always order something she has had before, not necessarily in the same restaurant. More than 90% of the time she would order Caesar salad if she wants a salad, no matter where we eat. 100% of the time she explains, "it is a safe choice." It seems to me that she reads the menu just to find out if the place serves the dish or not. She actually says a few times, "Oh there is no Ceasar salad here," and looks kind of disappointed.
> 
> ...


Yes my ESFJ ex bf is like that. In many regards he does not sound like "stereotypical SJ" on the surface, he listens to punk music and likes horror movies and if someone were to stereotype him upon meeting him, they might think he was an ESFP. NO WAI BROSKINI.

Like your mom, he only wants to eat things like caesar salads (no joke on this one) or lasagna, when in an Italian restaurant, even if there are twenty interesting things on the menu. I've talked about him doing this before, having very cautious taste in food, almost to the point of it seeming ridiculous.

He also keeps his horror collection _alphabetized _and could give you a long winded, categorical monologue about each director and his style.

He also says things like "the little white towels are for wiping down the sink, not wiping down your body." Oh yes, excuse me, I had no idea that little white towels only were supposed be for the things maids use them for in hotels, and I'm an idiot if I decide it's ok to use face cloths for bathing. :dry:

I'm actually more of a foodie, and love to try new things, though of course I have my limits, I have a lot more curiosity about food, or instinctively know if ingredients I enjoy will taste fine if combined in new or different ways.

Yeah.


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## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

fourtines said:


> He also says things like "the little white towels are for wiping down the sink, not wiping down your body." Oh yes, excuse me, I had no idea that little white towels only were supposed be for the things maids use them for in hotels, and I'm an idiot if I decide it's ok to use face cloths for bathing. :dry:
> 
> I'm actually more of a foodie, and love to try new things, though of course I have my limits, I have a lot more curiosity about food, or instinctively know if ingredients I enjoy will taste fine if combined in new or different ways.
> 
> Yeah.


Yes my mom has one towel for wiping hand, one for the body, and one for the face in the bathroom.
I have that instinct, too. I don't know why. I always do a good job at picking food in a restaurant within a happy price. Sometimes when I don't want to think too much I just go by photo or whatever.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

earthgirl said:


> How I understand it, Si takes in information and compares/relates it to memories, past experiences, information that already is there.
> 
> I'm (probably) a Si dom and how I see Si in myself is my thoughts might go like... Alright, I see a squirrel, I remember that my mom and I used to feed squirrels when I was a kid and how bravely they approached humans. I wonder how tame this one is.
> 
> ...


That's basically dead on.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

uncertain said:


> Yes my mom has one towel for wiping hand, one for the body, and one for the face in the bathroom.
> I have that instinct, too. I don't know why. I always do a good job at picking food in a restaurant within a happy price. Sometimes when I don't want to think too much I just go by photo or whatever.


Another thing I remembered about my ex is that (and this is very important) he had a list...a list he'd had since he was like...7 years old. And I met him while he was in his early-to-mid twenties, I would say ...24? ...and he said, I've had this list since I was a little boy and I have collected nearly every film on it.

It was a black and white mail-order list for classic or imported horror from Fangoria magazine in the 1980s. 

Such an SJ trait, to be a collector, I think, and to have that kind of admirable tenacity to hang on to a hobby in that sort of life-long way and delve into it so deeply.

Si= depth over breadth

There's also something eccentric about it, which is why Jung pointed out that the Si dom could seem like either an artist or an unassuming madman, or in less intelligent cases, just some kind of nit-picky boring doormat.

My ESFJ ex was one of the smartest ESFJs I've ever met (which is why in some regards he doesn't seem like the degraded ESFJ stereotype of some mindless conformist whose principle talent in life is nagging or mothering/nurturing others...though he did that too!); his grandfather was a genius ...like literally a genius...and though I know genius doesn't run in families, I think he inherited some kind of intelligence from his mother's side of the family. I remember noting that his forehead was shaped just like his maternal grandfather's.

P.S. I am turned off by ugly pictures of food too. I hate those tacky menus where the food looks like it was all filmed under florescent lights.


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## Texero F (Feb 20, 2013)

Good example I heard

An Istj and Estp both lived in small homes all their lives. The Istj may become uncomfortable with moving into a mansion because smaller homes/spaces is what the Istj is use to/always known (Si). The Estp would just view moving into a mansion as having more room/space to do stuff (Se). Subjective sensing what a person has always known/use to could be used to describe (Si). Objective sensing what is actually there could be used to describe (Se).


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

The thing that I find most amusing, is that all of the function examples are exemplified in such a uniform manner, to specific peoples and characters. Rather than just getting to the simplistic essence of what something actually is. That is why function attitudes are so poorly defined.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

uncertain said:


> My mom is probably a Si-user. She sounds a lot like @_fourtines_ ESFJ friend about that water on the floor thing. She doesn't cry though.
> 
> I notice a difference between Si and Se users when we go to a restaurant. My mom would always order something she has had before, not necessarily in the same restaurant. More than 90% of the time she would order Caesar salad if she wants a salad, no matter where we eat. 100% of the time she explains, "it is a safe choice." It seems to me that she reads the menu just to find out if the place serves the dish or not. She actually says a few times, "Oh there is no Ceasar salad here," and looks kind of disappointed.
> 
> ...


I like trying new things and usually go for something I haven't had before. I'm an Si user but its in the tertiary position. I also use photos of food alot as a guide. I'll often order something that looks good in the picture. There have been a few times where I've been disappointed because what I actually got didn't look as good as pictured.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

uwuntu said:


> I've seen people regard S's as more observant than N's. In what different ways are Si users and Se users observant?


More observant would be a misnomer. Sensory dom/aux gather more sensory information, and are more in tune with what something is with no hidden context. Si users will notice and remember sensory details based on what they are reminded of from their past, Se users notice and remember sensory details almost indiscriminately, based on what is collected from the 5 senses, and cares not if it is immediately useful information or not. N types also gather sensory info, but only what seems to be most pertinent/interesting to the situation, and ignore the rest.

So observant really is a subjective word, depending on how you want to define it's meaning it could be either S or N or dependent on the situation.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

Kanerou said:


> How does this Si connection differ from Ne connection? Is it the orientation of past vs future, or something else?


I think that the answers you've gotten have been close, but subtly off. Ne and Si are a tandem pair, meaning they are always working together. Whether you are S or N type determines which side of the tandem you favor towards. Favoring Ne is to prefer to think in terms of best possible outcomes, whether it be in terms of interpersonal relationships (paired with Fi) or impersonal matters (paired with Ti). It relatively ignores past experiences that might lead to being more wary, unless the past experience is extremely intensely negative. It is a function of being excited about all the good that could be possible. Those who favor Si are quite the opposite, preferring to think in terms of past experience and especially what didn't work. Si is an inherently negatively oriented function, which makes Si users very good at avoiding problems that might arise. It relatively avoids new experiences, unless the new experience has an intensely positive outlook and feels completely safe. It is a function of being wary of all the bad that could be possible.

The reason why Ne doms jump from thing to thing so much is once the possibility has been realized and related, the essence that brings energy to it is gone, so therefore there is a need to jump to something new immediately to revitalize that high. The reason why Si doms stick with the same old, and tend to avoid novelty, is because sticking to what is known has the least change of resulting in a possible negative outcome. So an Si dom might be content in a less than stellar situation, simply because they can expect that it can't get worse and will stay equally bad, rather than risking a possibility that could result very negatively. And likewise, an Ne dominant might be disconnect with an extremely favorable situation, simply because it does not have the intensity of positive juices flowing from it, being something that is already known. Fortunately most people grow to be more or less balanced to a palpable level, and can assert some sort of objective logic to their often skewed perceptions to avoid the extremes.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

To continue this line of thought of Ne/Si when compared to Ni/Se, I offer this way of thinking about it (note these are my own thoughts and not from a book, so of course feel free to disagree and offer up an alternative, just as you should when reading anything, even from a book from the "experts"):

Ni/Se is the tandem that is convergent in its idea perception, while divergent in its sense perception. This tandem will hone in with Ni on the structural idea that seems the most promising for a future outcome, given what is presently there. Those who favor Ni will be better at envisioning one singular future outcome, but will often not pay attention to much of the sensory details of the situation. Those who favor Se will have a massive storehouse of all sorts of sensory details, but will be often misguided in their formulation of a structural framework that uses the sensory details to envision a future outcome.

Ne/Si on the other hand, is divergent in its idea perception, while convergent in its sense perception. Those who use this tandem will hone in on the particular details of the environment which have the greatest impact on the psyche, those that give the strongest sensory impressions, while thinking divergently about as many possibilities as can be seen (positive or negative depending on what is favored).


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