# Do You Feel Your MBTI Type Accurately Describes You?



## Lucan1010 (Jul 23, 2018)

Do You Feel Your MBTI Type Accurately Describes You?


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

something between "mostly" and "kinda"

I don't see why a person would even claim to have a type that's the opposite of who she is.


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

I'm an INTJ... mostly and I usually score somewhere around 50-50 on extroversion/introversion and 55-45/60-40 on intuition/sensing.

The general descriptions don't match me. I'm somewhere between INTJ and ENTJ. There are some things which match me more in the INTJ description and others which match me more in the ENTJ description.

Also, a problem I've noticed in the descriptions is exaggeration. For example, INTJs are described as being out of touch with their emotions... I'm less in touch with them than the average person in some respects, but more in touch with them in others. INTJ planning? I do plan better than the average person, but I don't plan everything and I'm not 5 steps ahead of others. INTJ strategy? Again I'm above average, but not absolutely brilliant at this. A classic image is the INTJ chess player... Actually, I don't have the patience to think through every option... I just move, because I grow bored and restless just sitting and looking at a board, and I prefer to just move, even if it's not the best move... I just want it to be over.

Let's take a part of a description for INTJ:

"Architects are defined by their tendency to move through life as though it were a giant chess board, pieces constantly shifting with consideration and intelligence, always assessing new tactics, strategies and contingency plans, constantly outmanoeuvring their peers in order to maintain control of a situation while maximising their freedom to move about. This isn’t meant to suggest that Architects act without conscience, but to many other types, Architects’ distaste for acting on emotion can make it seem that way, and it explains why many fictional villains (and misunderstood heroes) are modelled on this personality type."

Yes, I do think more strategically than the average person, but I'm not doing this: "pieces constantly shifting with consideration and intelligence, always assessing new tactics, strategies and contingency plans, constantly outmanoeuvring their peers in order to maintain control of a situation while maximising their freedom to move about" I'm not constantly assessing anything. I just act according to my intuition. I'm not constantly outmanoeuvring anyone. Sometimes, stuff doesn't go according to my plan. Also, I rarely have a contingency plan. Sometimes I do act on emotion... yes, not most of the time, but enough times to make it a feature of who I am.


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## Kommandant (Jun 27, 2017)

Yes mostly but "unfortunately" i can say this about two types so idk which ones the right one.

Btw why would someone get the complete opposite?


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Not really, kinda at best.

I am not a typical anything.


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## Chompy (May 2, 2015)

I think people can feel the exact opposite due to the stereotypes being so strong within MBTI that they begin to be repulsed by their own type. The 'bias' or whatever you want to call it against sensors would certainly have me feeling like I don't identify as one if I was.


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

50/50. There isn't one accurate describing me into detail. But some come closer than others.


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## danthemanklein (Mar 30, 2018)

In some cases yes, in other cases, not so much, but that’s mainly because not everyone of the same type is going to be the same. Personality is a lot more complex than MBTI. Sure, you’ll have the same thought process, but it’s how you act on it that’s different. For me, I’m my own person just like anybody else. My type is just one part of who I am, plus the many other factors that go into it are important as well.


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## Sven The Returned (Feb 10, 2018)

Strelnikov said:


> I'm an INTJ... mostly and I usually score somewhere around 50-50 on extroversion/introversion and 55-45/60-40 on intuition/sensing.
> 
> The general descriptions don't match me. I'm somewhere between INTJ and ENTJ. There are some things which match me more in the INTJ description and others which match me more in the ENTJ description.
> 
> ...


1.) Part of the problem as I see it is that a lot of the MBTI profile descriptions seem to be written by rather imaginative NFPs. lol Perhaps an STJ's touch would be more sober, clinical and grounded in reality. 

2.) From a cognitive function standpoint, it seems reasonable to surmise that ambiversion alters (levels up/down) the intensity in which the functions manifest. Going by some of the things you've said here, it seems that you have better developed Se than the average INTJ (preferring to move even if it's not the best move) but better developed Fi than the average ENTJ (who is more likely to be out of touch with their emotions). And FWIW, INTJs tend to be more aware of the role their Fi values play in their psyche, but they tend not *to show* any resultant emotion. I'd say that INTJs feel more and show less whereas ENTJs feel less, but show more in that they are more expressive and likely to experience some form of emotional dysregulation (outbursts, aggression, inability to self sooth, more intense negative emotions) due to repressed inferior Fi. 

I'm also an ambiverted NTJ that leans towards extraversion but I'm not very socially extroverted (extremely aloof and selective); my thinking is dominant but extremely close and chummy with my very strong intuition (I can live in my Ni more than I should, at times, and the proximity inspires my Te to be a bit more expository); my Se is strong to the point where I often come off as an Se dominant; and my Fi awareness/engagement is most definitely more developed than the average ENTJ. 



Moreover, I'd never want to be the CEO of a large corporation (who needs that kind of stress?); I don't have more than a cursory interest in finance/investment banking and all that bullshit; I don't snack on Persian kitten-kabobs in between business meetings; and science (especially behavioral) interests me more than business (though I do have the mind for it and recognize its utility)--I was comforted to know that according to the third edition MBTI Manual, ENTJs are over represented among behavioral psychologists. But most of the ENTJ profile descriptions don't mention or even allude to ENTJs possibly heading in that direction.


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

Sven The Returned said:


> 2.) From a cognitive function standpoint, it seems reasonable to surmise that ambiversion alters (levels up/down) the intensity in which the functions manifest. Going by some of the things you've said here, it seems that you have better developed Se than the average INTJ (preferring to move even if it's not the best move) but better developed Fi than the average ENTJ (who is more likely to be out of touch with their emotions). And FWIW, INTJs tend to be more aware of the role their Fi values play in their psyche, but they tend not *to show* any resultant emotion. I'd say that INTJs feel more and show less whereas ENTJs feel less, but show more in that they are more expressive and likely to experience some form of emotional dysregulation (outbursts, aggression, inability to self sooth, more intense negative emotions) due to repressed inferior Fi.
> 
> I'm also an ambiverted NTJ that leans towards extraversion but I'm not very socially extroverted (extremely aloof and selective); my thinking is dominant but extremely close and chummy with my very strong intuition (I can live in my Ni more than I should, at times, and the proximity inspires my Te to be a bit more expository); my Se is strong to the point where I often come off as an Se dominant; and my Fi awareness/engagement is most definitely more developed than the average ENTJ.


Usually when I do tests that measure functions, I get Te and Ni very close... Sometimes I score higher on Te, other times higher on Ni. Se and Fi are also close to each other. Most of the time I'm thinking about stuff, imagining stuff, but I don't have a problem switching to Se when I need to. Actually, I can do that quite well, especially when I play a sport. I have very good reflexes for example. Also, I've never had problems like being so much in my head that I would hit things or stuff like that. I did knew an INTJ once who actually was running into walls and stuff like that... I've never, ever had any such problems. Usually, what happens is I enter a sort of autopilot, I think about my stuff when there is something boring going on around me, like when I'm transiting to work. But if there is anything out of the ordinary going on, I will quickly switch to Se. Come to think of it, I think I can switch to Se easier compared to Fi. Usually I have to really dig deep in my mind to reach feelings.

As for Fi, I do have outbursts of feelings (especially anger at work... I'm an Enneagram 8 so that would explain that). Usually, I don't have a problem expressing what I feel, although in general it sounds more like an analysis of the feelings than an expression of them. Also, most of the time I don't feel anything... It's like a desert in there, with some feeling from time to time.

Regarding social life, you sound similar to me. Usually, people are turned off by me... Apparently, I come off either as too strong or too quiet.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

I don't think it's supposed to unless you're strong in every letter. I think I'm a bit more E and have a weaker S than the descriptions indicate


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## Sven The Returned (Feb 10, 2018)

Strelnikov said:


> Usually when I do tests that measure functions, I get Te and Ni very close... Sometimes I score higher on Te, other times higher on Ni. Se and Fi are also close to each other. Most of the time I'm thinking about stuff, imagining stuff, but I don't have a problem switching to Se when I need to. Actually, I can do that quite well, especially when I play a sport. I have very good reflexes for example. Also, I've never had problems like being so much in my head that I would hit things or stuff like that. I did knew an INTJ once who actually was running into walls and stuff like that... I've never, ever had any such problems. Usually, what happens is I enter a sort of autopilot, I think about my stuff when there is something boring going on around me, like when I'm transiting to work. But if there is anything out of the ordinary going on, I will quickly switch to Se. Come to think of it, I think I can switch to Se easier compared to Fi. Usually I have to really dig deep in my mind to reach feelings.
> 
> As for Fi, I do have outbursts of feelings (especially anger at work... I'm an Enneagram 8 so that would explain that). Usually, I don't have a problem expressing what I feel, although in general it sounds more like an analysis of the feelings than an expression of them. Also, most of the time I don't feel anything... It's like a desert in there, with some feeling from time to time.


I relate to all of this. 

1.) Having easier access to Se than you do Fi is telling.... For the most part, I'm fairly tuned in to what's going on around me, especially in new situations. Just as easily as I'm pulled into my internal world, I'm pulled out of it--in case of emergency, I'm tactile and adaptive without much thought. I'm also pretty good at extrapolating Se data from body language and the immediate surrounding environment. I very much identify with possessing an Se on/off "switch"; Oftentimes, while playing a sport/engaging in some physicality where my attention/full focus isn't 100% required, I'll be lost in space and flighty as hell (usually focused on a more pressing/important/interesting endeavor) but as soon as it's necessary for me to be "plugged in," an effortless sharpness, clarity and presence takes over. I don't think INTJs typically work like that. I'm also an enneagram 8 and I read somewhere that enneagram 8 raises one's "thinking" and "sensing" capabilities, which might explain why an INTJ 8 can look like a more reserved ENTJ. Moreover, an ENTJ 8w9 can sometimes resemble an INTJ. 

2.) Concerning emotions, historically, my spirit animal has been the volcano--dead, dead, dormant for 1000 years and then, seemingly out of nowhere...faint impressions of bodies in ash deposits. And yes, the emotional reactions come more easily than understanding the reason for the reactions--sometimes it takes quite a while for me to know exactly what it is I'm feeling with any sort of nuance. Over the years, with the help of others, I've been able to identify potentially volatile "trigger points" that more readily clue me into why I just decapitated someone, but being able to spot and identify the more subtle emotions in the same moment as they occur, remains ever elusive. Moreover, there is the tendency to rationalize emotions. "This and this happened, and so this sentiment would be the most logical/make the most sense in response to that happening, and so *insert feeling* must be what I must be experiencing. Yeah, yeah, that's it...I think." lol

Do you ever get hit by random bouts of sentimentality? I can withstand witnessing some of life's most horribly gory and inhumane atrocities with a cold, stony stoicism but unexpectedly mist up at one of those long lost family member reunion shows. lol Ridiculous,but, at times, those moments reaffirm that it is indeed blood that powers me and not some advanced hydraulic system. 

And what's your relationship with Fe? According to the 8 functions and Socionics models, for EXTJs, Fe serves as a role function, the mask that one wears to engage the world, a necessary evil vital to our survival within the larger tribe. We don't consciously value it but we get its utility and have a decent handle of it. We generally like to maintain a favorable social environment so long as our Te and Fi are not set off due to misinformation, factual inaccuracies, or having a deeply held value stepped on. INTJs can barely manage, if at all, to wield and manage Fe with any type of facility. It offends their essence more than it does ENTJs. I've often heard that people who meet the friendly, pleasant EXTJ in social situations usually feel that they have been tricked and bamboozled when encountering them in the work environment. lol For me, this rings true. I can easily mimic Fe, when under little to no stress in the most chill environment possible, but in work mode, Te rules the roost. 



Strelnikov said:


> Regarding social life, you sound similar to me. Usually, people are turned off by me... Apparently, I come off either as too strong or too quiet.


lol Yes, I'm also a rather polarizing figure. But define "too strong." 

I'm like an old furnace during the autumn/winter cusp--either cold and shut off or generating way too much heat for such an enclosed space. In social situations, I can fade into walls when I'm not particularly interested in whatever's going on but I'll barrow my way through the crowd when I'm fascinated/intrigued/eager to confront some foolhardy assertion. Te, and especially dominant Te, is not known for starting the party and creating flattering, endearing impressions. We're more likely to completely fuck up the mood because we *just.* *can. not.* let some glaring falsity go uncorrected and unchallenged. And the more push back I receive, the harder the Te hammer will come down. And for me, it's totally fun. lol People often think I'm angry when defending my positions but ENTJ charisma is fiery, passionate, animated and in your face.


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

Sven The Returned said:


> 2.) Concerning emotions, historically, my spirit animal has been the volcano--dead, dead, dormant for 1000 years and then, seemingly out of nowhere...faint impressions of bodies in ash deposits. And yes, the emotional reactions come more easily than understanding the reason for the reactions--sometimes it takes quite a while for me to know exactly what it is I'm feeling with any sort of nuance. Over the years, with the help of others, I've been able to identify potentially volatile "trigger points" that more readily clue me into why I just decapitated someone, but being able to spot and identify the more subtle emotions in the same moment as they occur, remains ever elusive. Moreover, there is the tendency to rationalize emotions. "This and this happened, and so this sentiment would be the most logical/make the most sense in response to that happening, and so *insert feeling* must be what I must be experiencing. Yeah, yeah, that's it...I think." lol
> 
> Do you ever get hit by random bouts of sentimentality? I can withstand witnessing some of life's most horribly gory and inhumane atrocities with a cold, stony stoicism but unexpectedly mist up at one of those long lost family member reunion shows. lol Ridiculous,but, at times, those moments reaffirm that it is indeed blood that powers me and not some advanced hydraulic system.
> 
> ...


I'm also an 8w9. And I'm really close to what you're describing. Usually, when I feel something, I can identify the feeling and what caused it. But there are times when I can get overwhelmed by feeling. The feeling just amplifies in my mind... and it's almost like suffocating in it. I feel that I must step away from the source of the feeling. I also rationalise them afterwards.

I do get sentimental from time to time. Usually, I can watch stuff that would impress me and make me cry even. Now, the things which impress me aren't necessarily the things which impress most people. Usually, I'm impressed by resilience in the face of adversity, by people who fight (even though they might lose) against overwhelming odds, by people who live or give their life for a thing.

Just the other day I read a story of a football (soccer) player, Abdon Porte of Nacional Montevideo in Uruguay, who loved his club and football so much and was deeply affected when he was pulled from the first team. Then one match he had the opportunity to play once more and did so very well. But after the game he went to the stadium and shot himself in the centre of the field. He loved football and his team with all his heart and couldn't stand the idea that he might be pulled again from the team. I was moved to tears by this, by his dedication and by his sacrifice for a football. Now many people would find it strange and would be all like: why did he do it? But I can relate to that... Someone said that he lived for the club and loved it as a patriot loves his flag and as a believer loves his faith. To him, football was everything. And yes, I'm deeply impressed by that. It's a shame since he didn't live to see his nation's greatest achievements: 2 Olympic gold medals and 2 World Cups.

Regarding Fe, I'm not sure what to say... Fe certainly doesn't offend my essence. Usually I prefer Fe users to Fi users. My best friend is an INFJ. But I'm not sure how much I display it... I do have some "let's keep the peace" streaks. Usually, I'm really polite to strangers, especially waiters and people who provide me with a service.

By "too strong", I mean in some cases I will directly say to someone what I think of him/her. For example, I had this INTJ coworker and she introduced herself and was somewhat shy... And she told me she doesn't have people skills... And I directly told her that I like her. Because that's what I felt at the moment and I do like her very much. She told me directly who and how she was. Another coworker told me that I did come off too strong.

Regarding the last part... I had this case when an ISFJ told me and an ENTJ that when we discuss something we look like we're arguing. But in fact we're not arguing. But yes, I also like to push the argument to the max. I've even been told (to my pride and pleasure) that even the bosses are afraid of me. I have no problem arguing my case (somewhat more diplomatically, but just as forcefully) in front of managers, something that people in general at my job are afraid to do.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I think it describes my preferred cognitive functions. It explains how I choose to relate to myself and the world around me under ideal conditions, of course, not all conditions are ideal, and we are prone to changing our tune in relation to others, particularly those who are closest to us, or have some form of authority over us. MBTI describes how I would like to interact, but it does not describing me as a whole human being, nor was it ever intended to do so. 

Human beings on the whole have to have had to learn to be somewhat flexible in order to survive, we are all able to make certain adjustments to how we operate, given the right conditions, and circumstances. MBTI describes _cognitive_ _preference_, not _cognitive flexibility_.


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## Robopop (Jun 15, 2010)

Belzy said:


> I am not a typical anything.


Such a INFP thing to say:laughing:.


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## Sven The Returned (Feb 10, 2018)

Strelnikov said:


> I'm also an 8w9. And I'm really close to what you're describing. Usually, when I feel something, I can identify the feeling and what caused it. But there are times when I can get overwhelmed by feeling. The feeling just amplifies in my mind... and it's almost like suffocating in it. I feel that I must step away from the source of the feeling. I also rationalise them afterwards.
> 
> I do get sentimental from time to time. Usually, I can watch stuff that would impress me and make me cry even. Now, the things which impress me aren't necessarily the things which impress most people. *Usually, I'm impressed by resilience in the face of adversity, by people who fight (even though they might lose) against overwhelming odds, by people who live or give their life for a thing.*
> 
> ...


Again, I relate to all of this. IMO, based on our brief back and forth, you lean more ENTJ than INTJ, especially when weighing the relative strengths of your tertiary and inferior functions; having said that, I hardly fit the "textbook (read: stereotypical)" definition of an ENTJ myself and so perhaps I am an imperfect arbiter. 

A few more cosigns and observations: 

1.) Yes to sometimes being "suffocated" and "overwhelmed" by intense emotionality, once "activated"; that's the emotional dysregulation (typically more pronounced in ENTJs) I referred to earlier in the conversation--in part, it's characterized by experiencing emotional intensity disproportionate to the situation and finding difficulty in adequately self-modulating/self soothing/calming down once "triggered." 

2.) A big *yes* to the bolded portion of your comment. As a byproduct of inferior Fi, ENTJs tend to have a soft spot for the underdog, particularly as it relates to facing/being inhibited by/overcoming some degree and form of "injustice" and "unfairness."

a.] Fi is always evaluating how consistently a purported truth adheres to the precepts upon which it is based; and if great worth and importance have been assigned to this purported truth, incongruities are judged harshly. 

b.] And seeing as how "injustice" and "unfairness" fly in the face of "justice" and "fairness," principles upon which NTJs firmly stand, Fi can become rather trigger happy when patrolling those borders. I think all NTJs possess a fiercely independent, meritocratic spirit, a "will to power," but inferior Fi in ENTJs experience this with greater, primordial imperative and, subsequently, (a subjective perception and interpretation of) "unfair" obstacles and impediments that interfere with attaining that "power" are often met with a visceral reaction, whether that be *fiery* indignation or the shedding of a heartfelt, empathetic tear. 

Moreover, it should be noted that, particularly for ENTJ 8s, _justice_ is less about high minded, abstract principles related to jurisprudence and more about a practical concern with maintaining an "even playing field" and leveling out power imbalances, e.g., squaring up a 2 vs 1 fist fight or going after predatory lenders.

c.] Suffice to say, I don't think your response to the example you gave was weird at all--I _get_ why that's moving; a desire so uncompromising, all encompassing and devastating in its devout purity...it's inspirational and aspirational. Inferior Fi users can struggle with consciously knowing what we _truly_ want and desire because dominant Te serves the tribe, the external environment, the world-at-large; *but*, the magnificent human brain, the first super computer, ever self-correcting and seeking optimal functionality, will do everything in its power to make us "whole" > the unconscious desires of the inferior function achieve actualization via the dominant function. At the end of the day, everything ENTJs accomplish by way of Te is in service of our Fi value system. And that rings very true for me--the more obnoxiously and unapologetically Te I am about a particular project/goal/endeavor, the more _it actually matters_ to me. So, even if unconscious and largely unrealized, we assert, shove and push our way through the world so aggressively, many times to the point of sacrificial martyrdom and/or a reckless self-(dis)regard, because there _is_ something deep down, something significant and all important and meaningful, that drives us to push and strive and persevere and *actualize*. It's all rather poetic, actually, and, unfortunately, sometimes tragically so, as exemplified by the late Mr. Porte. 

d.] A close friend of mine has a kid significantly affected with autism that participated in the Special Olympics a few years ago--she talked me into volunteering at the time and, honestly, it was one of the most exhilarating and uncomfortable moments in my life, namely because never before had I done so much public *weeping*. lol I'm not talking about shedding a single stoic tear, nah, I'm talking full on ugly cry. And, of course, because I'm not used to that, I kept trying to halt and stifle it, which only made me look like I was having violent seizures. lol It was so bad that my friend's kid attempted to console *me *while I was trying and failing to tell him how amazingly I thought he had done. I probably released 20 years of pinned up emotion within the span of a week. *Seriously*. I was just so deeply and profoundly moved by the tenacity, the bravery, the strength, the gratitude and the fucking heart of both the athletes and their loved ones--so many of them had to overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles in order to reach the levels of growth and development necessary to compete. ENTJs respect the notion of struggle (read: fight), in and of itself, and most certainly the struggle towards a worthy outcome rooted in a lofty ideal. 

Another potent trigger for my Fi is witnessing the typically stoic, stiff upper lip, "tough guy" type of person not only reveal their vulnerability, likely by way of some emotional breakdown, but submit to it in that they become transformed in a deep, life altering way. And especially when that vulnerability was prompted by some form of pure, untainted (with cynicism), child-like benevolence and grace. Basicallly any film where some irrepressibly sweet kid slowly melts the heart of a grumpy, jaded curmudgeon is off limits to me. lol

3.) Because Fe is not a naturally occurring strength for EXTJs, at times there can be a tendency to overplay it. And in precisely the type of situations you mentioned--I'm almost hyper vigilant about being discernibly polite and gracious to wait staff and folks providing a service. That must be my way of overcompensating for what I know to be the typically drier, stiffer, more monotone, authoritative and argumentative "truth" that doesn't play so well at parties.

I have a push/pull dynamic with high Fi users. Before I knew about MBTI or Jungian cognitive functions, I just found people possessing that orientation to be...selfish and nigh impossible to read emotionally. Now I know that the more accurate word is self-focused (lol). ENTJs can be good (enough) at picking up behavioral cues, but suck at readily discerning another's emotional state; Fe users do all the heavy lifting for us. 

4.) [email protected] telling people, unsolicited and unauthorized, what you think of them a la declarative statements > "I like you." That is the first potentially type related trait I hadn't before read somewhere else but totally identify with nonetheless. Well done. I do shit like that *all. the. time.* But I never considered that it might be too much. I see it as an honest assessment meant to impart some clarity with residual affirmational value as a cherry on top. However, now that I think about it, my most positive "go to" assessment is much worse than yours > "Hmm...you're very bright." lol As if I had been dubious about the standing prognosis concerning their alleged intelligence/competency but after performing my own in-depth analysis, I was finally ready to diagnose them as "...smart." Yeah, that's another favorite of mine. Geez. lol And yet I wonder why ENTJs live in infamy. SMH.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

I did not determine my type by (descriptive) means; so they do not all fit. (I utilized observation of similar personalities - determining of surrounding figures - compare/contrast). For ex; I was raised by two ENTJ parents, and also have an ENTJ associated I am close with. Was not difficult to find where I "align", or where my genetics stem from.

Thus, it was not difficult to type myself (really early on I determined this from old typology books from the family library). INTJ descriptions are_ generally_ hyperbolic, somewhat boring to read about, and seem like they were written by an mildly autistic middle-aged INTJ man with an engineering Ph.D. No offense. I think I relate to about (2) of the many INTJ descriptions; that are more prone to describe technical basis/functions of the type - rather supply specific attributes of character. The gist I get from specimen(s) writing INTJ descriptions, as an INTJ, they really do not get nor understand the type well - but rather are working off their interpretations of how TJs are perceived. 

That said, MBTI descriptions are not very useful for describing the technical basis of how each cognitive-function operates, which I am more interested in than the "INTJ's love science, hate emotion" jazz. Not one description I have seen (especially Jung's discombobulated version) gives a technical breakdown of what precisely the function is actually doing with data and processes - which I give in this thread here.


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## Jaune (Jul 11, 2013)

I think my MBTI type describes me very well in terms of cognitive functions. I'm convinced about aux Se and tert Ni for myself, and the valued Ti-Fe combination fits me better than Fi-Te, I believe.

ISTP dichotomy descriptions are generally somewhat relatable for me, but there's a lot I don't match up with. I see myself in most of the introvert MBTI descriptions, honestly.


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

Sven The Returned said:


> 2.) A big *yes* to the bolded portion of your comment. As a byproduct of inferior Fi, ENTJs tend to have a soft spot for the underdog, particularly as it relates to facing/being inhibited by/overcoming some degree and form of "injustice" and "unfairness."
> 
> b.] And seeing as how "injustice" and "unfairness" fly in the face of "justice" and "fairness," principles upon which NTJs firmly stand, Fi can become rather trigger happy when patrolling those borders. I think all NTJs possess a fiercely independent, meritocratic spirit, a "will to power," but inferior Fi in ENTJs experience this with greater, primordial imperative and, subsequently, (a subjective perception and interpretation of) "unfair" obstacles and impediments that interfere with attaining that "power" are often met with a visceral reaction, whether that be *fiery* indignation or the shedding of a heartfelt, empathetic tear.
> 
> ...


I do find I click easier with some ENTJs, but I don't really have that overwhelming energy, although some people do feel overwhelmed by me. I have been told by an ISFJ, she thought I was an extrovert. But I spend most of the time by myself. Also, I seem to like to spend more time talking than classic ENTJs. They seem to be less talkative. I remember having a new coworker, a classic ENTJ and after 10 minutes of talking, he was already my brother from another mother 

2) I wouldn't say I have a soft spot for the underdog. at least not always. Usually, when I watch films I usually regard the bad guy as being disadvantaged, even if the good guy is presented as the underdog. I see the good guy as being favoured by the writers and the public... So it depends how you define underdog. A lot of times I see the classic underdog characters as being arrogant and entitled.

b) I do judge people harshly when they break my values. I had a friend who liked sleeping around with lots of women. And I always criticised him for it. It wasn't necessarily the sex itself, but the fact that he lied to them. He would always say... Oh, they know, they feel it... And I would always tell him: unless you explicitly tell them: "I'm fucking other women", you're not honest! It was more about the truth and less about the sex itself. Ok, sleep with 50 women... as long as everyone knows about everyone and is ok with it. Or dump the current girlfriend and move on to another. That's also ok! But don't cheat! My instinct when people do this is to cut relations with them. And after he tried to hit on a friend of mine, something I explicitly forbade him to do and lied to me about her... even tried to gaslight me... I cut all relations with him. And I never looked back! My best friend for over a decade and honestly I have no feelings towards him now... like 0...

c) Yes, I know what you mean. Your story reminds me of going once to an orphanage and I remember this kid told me out of nowhere he loved me. I don't know why, I felt like a very deep cut inside my soul... I've never felt anything like it. I mean, if he told me he hated me, I could cope with that, but honestly I couldn't cope with someone telling me he loves me... He had no reason... I didn't do anything particularly special for him... He just loved me... And that was really overwhelming for me.

d) Heroism always impresses me. But is this an ENTJ or Enneagram 8 thing? Even the worst people, if they fight, they redeem themselves in my eyes. For example, Stalin... there was this moment described in a book... and as evil as he was... This really got to me. When the Germans attacked the USSR... He had a nervous breakdown, he withdrew in fear and despair and simply disappeared from public life. When his people went to talk to him, he initially thought they were there to depose him and arrest him. He had lived in a tube (subway) station for a while after... He was under fantastic pressure. And the Soviets wanted to evacuate Moscow and leave it to the Germans. A part of the government already evacuated and soldiers were loading the train that would evacuate him. And he was there on the platform thinking among the steam from the train and in the cold. And he turned to an officer and asked him: "Do your people have shovels?" And the guy said... "Yeah!"... surprised by the question. And Stalin said to him: "Tell them to dig their own graves. We'll stay and fight!" And I know what kind of man he was... but the fact that he chose to stand and fight despite the pressure, which was absolutely enormous. He was tired, scared, even weak, but he chose to stand and fight... Just make a last stand! That's just wow!!! I mean, my country was fighting on the other side. He ruined my country after we lost. We still bear the scars and struggle to escape the heritage of Communism, but I can't despise or hate such a man.

3) Yes, I also overdo Fe when I use it. Usually, I think that waiters and people in jobs like that deal with enough assholes. I don't want to add to that.

4) I also do it to affirm people I really appreciate. I mean as direct and clear I may seem in my criticism, I want to be the same in my praise. I mean usually I don't criticise to bring people down and I criticise the fact, not the person necessarily. Also, I won't seek to always criticise. If someone who has a record of doing bad things does something good, I will acknowledge the good. I mean sometimes even people I dislike do good things. What's fair is fair!


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## Sven The Returned (Feb 10, 2018)

Strelnikov said:


> I do find I click easier with some ENTJs, but I don't really have that overwhelming energy, although some people do feel overwhelmed by me. I have been told by an ISFJ, she thought I was an extrovert. But I spend most of the time by myself. Also, I seem to like to spend more time talking than classic ENTJs. They seem to be less talkative. I remember having a new coworker, a classic ENTJ and after 10 minutes of talking, he was already my brother from another mother


1.) Remember that introversion (energy directed inwardly) and extroversion (energy directed outwardly) exist on a *spectrum*. Of course, then, an E(85%)NTJ and an E(55%)NTJ will manifest their energy at different degrees and intensities. 

For a long time, I believed myself to be an introvert, and delusionally so, some have remarked. However, considering that throughout my life I have spent an inordinate amount of time around seemingly manic ESXJs (my parents, being the most prominent) and ESXPs, naturally then, I'd see myself as more introverted; moreover, of all the extraverts, ENXXs are the most likely to mistype as introverts. But when I've consulted any IXXX regarding my energy levels, they see me as some sort of gale force wind. My core social "pack" consists of an ENTP, ESTP, ESTJ, and ENFJ--each of them an apex predator in their own right. However, to (reluctantly) borrow from Donald Trump, the ENFJ and I battle for "lowest energy" of the group. lol Though I'm certain objective onlookers would contest that *all of us* are ravenous hyenas fighting over the last word. 

Te-Se vies for dominance and control, and inherent with those drives, is a complex understanding of hierarchy and deference--knowing where we stand in relation to others. Barring misinformation (Te ego), flagrant disrespect (Se 'come at me Bro') and topics I'm particularly interested in/passionate about (Fi value subjectivity), I don't mind deferring to the more dominant energy in the group by passively and reservedly allowing myself to be schooled/entertained/outperformed. Many times have those who initially met me within this context suffered a rather rude awakening when, in another situation, they encountered a far more "presently engaged" me. lol

tl;dr Because "it's all relative" in that much of this shit involves scales and gradients, context matters.

2.) Are you familiar with the instinctual sub-types (self-pres[sp], sexual[sx], social[so]) of the Enneagram? Theoretically, they adhere to unconscious, (body-intelligence based) primal survival drives/imperatives that dictate our needs and how we go about satisfying them, within the confines of our overarching Enneagram type. IMO, juxtaposed with the wings, they can be just as, if not more telling of our interaction styles. And I say cheers to any complimentary system that reconciles and provides greater context for the sometimes dramatic seeming variegation within each of the personality types. 

IME, the ENTJ 8 sp-dominants (so or sx auxiliary) are the terse, bluntly direct, "man of few words," "don't talk about it, be about it," "let's get down to business," immovably self-contained, quietly intense, not so interpersonally warm and cuddly types. They damn sure aren't Chatty Kathys. lol However, I'm an sx-dominant (sp auxiliary) and more palpably "high energy," albeit with an "in your face," laser-focused intensity--and that is what drives me, *first and foremost* > mental/energetic intensity in search of more mental/energetic intensity. 

Generally speaking, I'm the "anti-social" loner who largely keeps to himself as he goes about his business but fills up half the office with his energy; I don't come off as talkative/"social" if there are *a lot of* shallow, inconsequential small talk or topics that don't particularly intrigue me being bandied about. But spark my curiosity (read: Sx need for mental intensity/need to meld with the object of my desire) or engage me with something I have an investment in and I'll passionately and viscerally one-side monologue the hell out of you. lol It's very much like that "hot and cold," off/on, old furnace analogy I provided earlier. Having "grounded" Sp as my auxiliary instinct keeps my "lusty" Sx impulses in line, but the Sx instinct relishes the opportunity to be thorough and "long-winded" about its passions and interests (as evidenced by this long ass paragraph and my generally long ass posts). 



Strelnikov said:


> 2) I wouldn't say I have a soft spot for the underdog. at least not always. Usually, when I watch films I usually regard the bad guy as being disadvantaged, even if the good guy is presented as the underdog. I see the good guy as being favoured by the writers and the public... So it depends how you define underdog. A lot of times I see the classic underdog characters as being arrogant and entitled.


1.) lol Agreed. This is why I said that an NTJ 8's notion of "fairness" and "justice" are *subjective* and primarily concerned with leveling out the playing field. Arguably, the most common fictional villains are hyperbolic depictions of NTJs, or TJs at the very least--Francis Urqhart-Underwood/Michael Corleone/Darth Vader/Tywin Lannister/Thomas Barrow/The Governor from Walking Dead/Hannibal Lector--every last one of whom I have found to be sympathetic and relatable to some extent. lol Being intuitive predisposes us to looking beyond one's external disposition in better gaining a more accurate understanding of their nature and motivations. All of the aforementioned "bad guys" are intelligent, logic oriented, cunning, successful, powerful and have endured some injustice/hardship/terrible trauma that helped shape them and, subsequently, factors (Fi) into their overarching plots, plans and machinations. 

As an avid comic book loving kid, while others were pretending to be Spiderman and Wolverine, I was Magneto--in possession of an *inner power* that gives him *complete control* over an environmental element *strong enough* to bend the world to his *will*, with the noble intention of granting his people *protection* from/*vengeance* towards those seeking to harm and disenfranchise them. How is that not justice? Both of us had been oppressed by Nazis and other authoritarian, fear mongering bigots, though he endured them in Auschwitz and I was raised by them. lol From my vantage point, he was a hero--better yet, an antihero, who I prefer, largely due to their pragmatism. They may utilize questionable means (that still may be completely justifiable), but the Fi heart of their endeavors is sound. 



Strelnikov said:


> b) I do judge people harshly when they break my values. I had a friend who liked sleeping around with lots of women. And I always criticised him for it. It wasn't necessarily the sex itself, but the fact that *he lied to them*. He would always say... Oh, they know, they feel it... And I would always tell him: unless you explicitly tell them: "I'm fucking other women", you're not honest! It was more about the truth and less about the sex itself. Ok, sleep with 50 women... as long as everyone knows about everyone and is ok with it. Or dump the current girlfriend and move on to another. That's also ok! But don't cheat! My instinct when people do this is to cut relations with them. And after he tried to hit on a friend of mine, something I explicitly forbade him to do and lied to me about her... even tried to gaslight me... I cut all relations with him. And I never looked back! My best friend for over a decade and honestly I have no feelings towards him now... like 0...


YES. YES. YES. My EXTP mates and I have had major fights over what makes a lie, a lie. Their Ti+Fe asks "what is the most logical way to manipulate this situation and those involved in order for me to get what I want from it?" And their tertiary Fe usually responds with the "best" possible (for the situation/context) diction (sometimes omitting any word that would serve as a deterrent), syntax, and intonation to achieve its end. They deal with *everyone* in this way and genuinely don't see it as inherently dishonest or problematic. However, I know them well enough to know that their intentions are generally good and so their rationale goes something like this: 1.) I think this is a good thing to do. 2.) I want everyone to do it. 3.) I'm going to spin it in the best possible way to achieve that goal. 4.) Because it's all for the best.

However, I believe in such things as lies of omission and the intent to mislead, most likely bolstered by my 8/inferior Fi based 1.) paranoia and hyper-vigilance against being taken advantage of and 2.) uncompromising demand for utter loyalty and a spirit of transparency from those I allow into my inner sanctum. Whenever EXTPs are presenting me with an opportunity of some sort, though I'm usually concerned with getting the big picture first, I also always ask for *all* of the accompanying data and facts. I don't dare give them licence to determine what is relevant or otherwise because we tend to disagree on that accord. lol 



Strelnikov said:


> d) Heroism always impresses me. But is this an ENTJ or Enneagram 8 thing? Even the worst people, if they fight, they redeem themselves in my eyes. For example, Stalin... there was this moment described in a book... and as evil as he was... This really got to me. When the Germans attacked the USSR... He had a nervous breakdown, he withdrew in fear and despair and simply disappeared from public life. When his people went to talk to him, he initially thought they were there to depose him and arrest him. He had lived in a tube (subway) station for a while after... He was under fantastic pressure. And the Soviets wanted to evacuate Moscow and leave it to the Germans. A part of the government already evacuated and soldiers were loading the train that would evacuate him. And he was there on the platform thinking among the steam from the train and in the cold. And he turned to an officer and asked him: "Do your people have shovels?" And the guy said... "Yeah!"... surprised by the question. And Stalin said to him: *"Tell them to dig their own graves. We'll stay and fight!"* And I know what kind of man he was... but the fact that he chose to stand and fight despite the pressure, which was absolutely enormous. He was tired, scared, even weak, but he chose to stand and fight... Just make a last stand! That's just wow!!! I mean, my country was fighting on the other side. He ruined my country after we lost. We still bear the scars and struggle to escape the heritage of Communism, but I can't despise or hate such a man.


Hell yeah. 

And I'm of the mind that it's possible to hold multiple views about a thing simultaneously. For example, my mother is literally a Nazi sympathizer; I loathe that about her. She's also an accomplished, self-made entrepreneur; I respect that about her. She is the most destructively manipulative person I've ever encountered in my life; I loathe that about her. Her unique skill set has granted her much success. I respect that about her. Seeing as how it's not my fault that the world and its people are complicated, I judge every value on a case by case basis and have no fear in calling a thing a thing and moving on.


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