# Men aren't men any more.



## Gilly (Apr 22, 2012)

The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up. 
Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits. 

Thanks kindly. 

An ENFJ
















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Must we continually hash out gender issues. All people and groups have flaws. Suck it up.


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## bkaylene (Oct 24, 2015)

A lot would rather complain than figure out what's going on, or so I've noticed.


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)




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## Enxu (Dec 14, 2012)

Those who see a need to constantly complain are as damaged as the ones they complain about. End of story.


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## Shadow Tag (Jan 11, 2014)

I just can't stand just how much women have changed since the 1950s! It's almost as if they have personal aspirations and don't live to get us manly men off anymore... What happened? The world was a better place in those times.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

As per stated by Roosh. 

Neomasculinity combines traditional beliefs, masculinity, and animal biology into one ideological system. It aims to aid men living in Westernized nations that lack qualities such as classical virtue, masculinity in males, femininity in females, and objectivity, especially concerning beauty ideals and human behavior. It also serves as an antidote for males who are being programmed to accept Western degeneracy, mindless consumerism, and immoral state authority. The purpose of this article is to list and describe the principal doctrines of neomasculinity.

Table Of Contents
◾Game
◾Traditional sex roles
◾Understanding the true nature of women
◾Patriarchy
◾Sexual marketplace value
◾Self-improvement (weightlifting & fitness | individual responsibility | hard work ethic | lifestyle optimization)
◾Free speech and due process
◾Testosterone
◾Entrepreneurship
◾Red pill truths
◾Male-only spaces
◾Sexual moderation
◾Nuclear family
◾Binary sex model
◾Feminine beauty ideals
◾Natural health and hygiene
◾Male virtue and development
◾Anti-socialism
◾Technological skepticism
◾Deeper meaning and spirituality

Game

Due to changes in mating behavior and pair bonding brought on by technology, shifting demographics, migration to cities from rural towns, universal suffrage, promotion of sexually promiscuous behaviors, and destruction of traditional sex roles, most men do not have the ability or knowledge to successfully reproduce with a modern woman on a comparable attractiveness and socioeconomic level. Their “natural” self will lead to reproductive failure without purposeful intervention that increases their attractiveness in the eyes of women who are actively encouraged to seek out high-value males.

“Game” is a collection of socially-based tactics and reproducible behaviors that increase a man’s sexual attractiveness to women and therefore his access to reproduction. It can range from a trivial aid like an opening line that starts a conversation with a woman in an interesting manner to a physical move that escalates intimacy in the bedroom in a way that is most likely to lead to sex. Its primary goal is to give men a set of tools and beliefs that allow him to more easily enter sexual relationships with the women he desires. In modern Western societies, a man who doesn’t at least subconsciously understand game concepts is unlikely to have sex at all.

Game is ultimately a response to signals that women in any environment are displaying, giving them what they want in sexual partners based on their desires and tastes of the day. These desires are undergoing regular change, meaning that game is a constantly shifting set of outward rules and practices while the inward game beliefs governing those practices remain mostly static, based on known biological truths that stem from animal reproductive science and studies based on female human sexual behavior.

Related: 
• The 3 Principal Types Of Game
• The Death Of Male Authenticity

Traditional sex roles

Humans purportedly diverged from chimpanzees 4-8 million years ago. During that stretch, natural selection has applied different pressures on the men and women of our hunter-gatherer ancestors to increase their likelihood of survival. The most visible difference between the sexes is muscle mass, whereby a modern woman is only 60% as strong as a man, since stronger men were more likely to ensure individual and group survival.

Selection did not stop at the neck, meaning that our brains have accumulated differences in behavior, psychology, and how we respond to various environmental stimuli. For those who don’t believe in evolutionary processes, sex differences would have been bestowed onto humans by some type of creator.

The sum of these differences lead to a strength and weakness profile for each sex that allows them to either excel or be deficient in certain roles compared to the opposite sex. The term “traditional sex roles” is slightly a misnomer—a more accurate term is “human sex roles,” since they have likely existed since the beginning of the human species.

Traits possessed by men in greater percentage than women: dominance, independence, intelligence, rationale, analytical thinking

Traits possessed by women in greater percentage than men: submissiveness, dependence, emotional nature, faster intuition, cooperative sharing

The idea of “gender equality” is a myth that has no scientific basis. Pushing for it is detrimental to both sexes because it minimizes their innate strengths and maximizes their weaknesses, decreasing their overall chances of reproduction, survival, and even happiness, especially in an environment that is constrained with resources.

Forcing men to cooperate, share, and nurture like a woman is as unusual as training a house cat to bark like a dog. In the same way that we have the economical division of labor, where you are trained to perform a narrow set of tasks better than others in order to earn a successful living, traditional sex roles have done the same in splitting the burden of survival and child-rearing between two sexes.

While women don’t “belong” in the home, they do a better job than men at nesting and child raising. While men don’t belong in coal mines or on oil rigs, they do a better job at digging minerals from the earth and raising it above ground. Creating government programs or propaganda that aim to show women can be coal miners and firefighters as good as men is a foolish, politically correct behavior that comes from a false notion (“men and women are equal”) that cannot ever be made true without us evolving into a new species. Westerners, as defined by those living in the Anglosphere and Western Europe, are currently forced to digest all manner of manipulation and dissemination of falsehoods to make equality truthful.

Men and women should have some degree of free will to live a life compatible with their respective societies, but there should not be coordination between the media, government, and academia to program citizens to abandon their innate strengths for imagined ideas of utopia.

Related: 
• Traditional Gender Roles Create Feminine Women
• The Contradiction Of Pursuing Casual Sex While Advocating For Traditional Values
• Traditional Sex Roles Are What Nature Intended

Understanding the true nature of women

By the time most men finish puberty, they will have an impression of women that is mostly fantasy. Modern culture has undertaken huge steps to portray women simultaneously as victims needing male assistance and empowered superheros who are so capable and brave that they don’t even need men at all. It’s not surprising to find that many men have an understanding of women that is not far from what you would find in an old Disney movie, of women who display amazing acts of courage one moment and then needing approval and assistance from dashing princes the next.

Women are reactionary in that they subconsciously assess the environment to determine how to proceed with mate selection. If survival is hard, and her basic food and shelter needs are difficult to attain, she will latch onto a provider man at an early age that aids in her survival. If survival is easy, and she already has her food and shelter needs met, she will then pursue more base hedonistic instincts while leisurely shopping around for the most high status male she can obtain.

If she fails in her search of the latter, she will procure a provider male well past her peak beauty and fertility (after 30 years of age) so that she does not grow old without any life partner at all. (A provider male, or beta male, is a man who eagerly, kindly, and sometimes mindlessly shares his financial resources with a woman of dubious worth in exchange for sexual benefits, companionship, and the chance to reproduce.)

Women are also craftily aware of local legal conditions and how it can be manipulated in their favor. If rape laws tighten against men, more women will use false rape accusations as a weapon to punish men, alleviate feelings of sexual guilt, attract the attention of high-status men, or get out of being caught cheating. If domestic violence laws tighten, women will use that as a weapon to control their husbands. Women are skilled at using the structure and rules of the local environment to fulfill their goals, which is to secure the highest possible value male, gain as much material resources as possible, pursue the female primal need for pleasure and vanity, and compete successfully against other females.

A woman behaving as the model of femininity and kindness in an environment with conditions favoring males will behave quite differently in an environment with conditions favoring females. A woman’s nature is therefore not static, and takes the shape of the container of her environment.

The true nature of men, on the other hand, is in turn reactionary to signals women put out that declare their sexual preferences in males. Women act according to the broader environment to accumulate resources and self-satisfaction while men act according to the best method and strategy to secure female sexual partners. The mating feedback loop that results, involving untold number of variables, can help explain differences in mating strategies of people living in nations that have similar cultural values.

In the past, the best male strategy to reproduce was resource sharing since survival was difficult and in no way guaranteed, but now with survival needs easily met, men are moving into a “clown” strategy of providing entertainment, excitement, and alpha male simulated behavior to women who are quicker to reward this set of tactics with commitment-free sex than with provider male tactics of yesterday.

Related: 
• Men Are Nothing More Than Clowns To The Modern Woman 
• Women In Their Prime Prefer Sex With Damaged Men

Patriarchy

Western society is moving away from a patriarchal-based system where men held sole power and determined the rules governing society. In the past, men like Arthur Schopenhauer and HL Mencken understood the true nature of women and the chaos that would ensue if patriarchal rules were dismantled by allowing women to pursue mating without constraints while allowing them to directly compete with men in the labor market. This has the simultaneous effect of making women less able to fulfill their motherly duties while impoverishing men economically and making them less able or likely to fulfill important provider roles that foster societal stability.

Patriarchy does have its flaws in locking in roles for males and females who are outliers, but it was undoubtedly a superior societal system that catered to the innate abilities of the sexes and provided them with roles that not only furthered their own abilities and interests but civilization as a whole. Men were able to provide through their labor while women were able to nurture and raise children in an imperfect but mostly harmonious family system. It’s likely due to patriarchy that humans did survive various threats to their existence. Patriarchal systems must therefore be regained as the primary organizing structure of modern societies.

Related: 
• The End Game Of Feminism
• 20 Signs That We’re Not Living In A Patriarchy
• This Accidental Experiment Shows The Superiority Of Patriarchy

Sexual marketplace value

The job market in a capitalist country is fluid and free. Employers can hire and fire workers at will and workers can join or leave a company at will. Neither have much in the way of loyalty or dedication to each other, and each party is attempting to extract as much money, labor, knowledge, and experience as possible from the other party.

Some corporations hold more value in the eyes of employees than others, due to their brand name, salary, facilities, and perks. Some workers are eagerly sought out by corporations because of their experience, ability, and reputation. The top corporations can easily retain the best talent while the bottom corporations continually lose their best talent to corporations above them. At the same time, the best workers are promoted and lavished with higher salaries while the worst workers can only retain the lowest paying jobs or have to suffer persistent unemployment.

The modern dating market is now as fluid as the job market. Once traditional sex roles were dismantled and women were allowed to embrace their hypergamous nature of seeking top males, they began shopping for the best “corporation” that they could land, hopping from one man to the next as a way to maximize the value they could receive. At the same time, men at the top could attract the very best females, while men at the bottom struggle to attract even one.

In the days of Christian monogamy, women were culturally shamed and prevented from shopping for men, and encouraged to marry the first good man they bed, one they often met through family or church. This ensured society stability and sexual equality in that most able-bodied men would be able to procure a wife. These women would gain a dedicated provider male instead of being sexually used for short-term sexual pleasure by high-status men until being replaced by a younger beauty.

The breakdown of traditional sex roles and Christian-style egalitarian monogamy with the promotion of fluid dating has begun to revert society into a harem model currently practiced by Arab royalty in countries like Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates, where high status men reap nearly all the highest quality fertile women and maintain concubines on retainer while low status men receive no women and struggle to have their basic survival needs met.

In America today, famous and good-looking men are hotly pursued by beautiful women while the majority of “average” men are forced to undergo strenuous efforts to increase their sexual marketplace value (SMV) to compete, just like how any worker must increase their job market value by educating themselves in university and working in low-paying internships.

With fluid dating, every man must vigorously improve his SMV in order to land sexual relationships, and if he doesn’t, he’s at risk at failing to experience any sexual success. At the same time, women also have an SMV that is tied mainly to their beauty and fertility. Men have to work at increasing their SMV while women are given the bulk of theirs by nature.

Except for natural-born alpha males, a man’s SMV is still rising in his late teens and early 20’s before he has accumulated significant resources, social status, and game, during a time when a woman’s SMV is at her highest, thanks to her being at the peak of her beauty. If a woman is unable to gain commitment of a man during the height of her SMV, it will be a game of musical chairs in her 30’s or even 40’s to find any man who will walk down the aisle with her. A woman who doesn’t lower her standards in her 30’s will undoubtedly fail to find commitment, since there is little she will be able to do to increase her value. A man, however, has many options even into old age for keeping his SMV relatively high, such as increasing his status or wealth.

A healthy and stable society will put limitations upon both men and women to fully maximize their SMV as if they were working in a capitalistic job market. Men would be limited from excessive philandering for extended periods of time and “using up” a woman’s beauty for hedonistic pleasure while women would be limited in using her sexuality and peak beauty to sleep with dozens of men in the hopes that one high-status man will keep her. Sexual experimentation should be self-limiting, but as long as dating is fluid, male participants have no choice but to play the game and work on their SMV to hopefully land some semblance of a normal relationship. The more fluid the dating market is, the less likely that will happen.

Related: 
• How To Be A Great Man
• 8 Things American Women Must Do To Make Themselves More Attractive For Men
• How The Game Changes When You Get Older

Self-improvement

Self-improvement is necessary for a man to transform the raw material of his genetics to maximize his sexual marketplace value, accumulate enough material resources to live comfortably (and protect himself from the actions of an unjust state or hysterical mob), and to gain enough wisdom and experience to live a virtuous life with a mind free of falsehoods and brainwashing. This is an individual journey that better suits a man with an above-average mind that resists the trends and styles of the day to pursue truths and conditions that were no less relevant hundreds of years ago. Four basic components this includes is physical fitness, hard work ethic, individual responsibility, and lifestyle optimization.

Weightlifting and fitness

Body development increases a man’s overall health, instills into him hard work ethic, and increases his confidence, which facilitates attainment of his other goals. At the same time body development is important, it should not be so involved that it begins to take away from development of the mind.

For the average man, the mind exists solely for the pleasures and functions of the body, but for the above-average man, the body exists for the functioning of the mind. Men must be careful not to overcompensate in body development to pursue goals of vanity or narcissism that end up limiting their overall development.

Individual responsibility

Men are not victims. While we have been placed on the Earth during a unique time in humanity that can be institutionally oppressive to men, we’re still allowed enormous ability to affect the fabric of our lives. Even the most repressive regime on the planet today will afford men the opportunity to privately develop themselves, and so no excuse must be made to quit, obsessively gripe, or not even attempt the difficult steps that can improve our stations.

While there are some features of modern Western society that make it harder to achieve our goals, such as finding a loyal wife to raise a family with, there is still room for a disciplined and focused man to win in a climate that wants him to lose. The limitations stopping us exist partly in our minds, as any brief study of history can show that men never had it easy. Blame for our failures in life must be put squarely on our own shoulders to train our minds to focus on what we can control instead of what we cannot.

Hard work ethic

Men are the mules of the human species. Their nature codes for them to work endlessly until they perish, and so a neomasculine man is one who sets a goal for himself and tirelessly labors for its realization. Success may not be a guarantee in his journey, but labor is, and the man who doesn’t labor is not more deserving of the fruits of male life than one who does. While some men have to work less at their goals because of innate talents and abilities they were born with, work is a significant equalizer that allows one born with a lower stock to raise himself up to those men born above him.

Society is now structured to teach men to work for corporations to earn money for products that go right back to corporations. After a man has put in a shift of eight hours in the office, his mind and body is too tired to work for himself, and so this is how the modern format of work inhibits a man in developing his potential. Along his life’s journey, a man must figure out how he can work for himself first, during times his mind is fresh, instead of giving the best parts of himself to a corporation that does little more than satisfy consumer wants that were programmed into him.

Related: 
• We Are All Sisyphus
• Everyone Is Hoping That You’ll Fail

Lifestyle optimization

Every man’s nature is different. Some are morning birds, some are night owls. Some have fast metabolisms, some have slow metabolisms. Some are extroverted, some are introverted. Every man has a responsibility to discover his own nature, his strengths and his flaws, to understand how his mind and body responds to stimuli to better construct a way of living that suits him best and allows him to accomplish goals instead of trying to merely copy someone else’s formula.

Man must find the best diet, sleep, supplements, and workout regime for his body. He must find the best work habits for completing his labor. He must find the social environments to further his friendships or relationships with women. This requires men to be open to trying different things, be vigorous with experimentation, and self-reflect honestly without ego. By the time a man is 35, he should have a custom lifestyle in place that is seamlessly integrated with a program of self-development that aids in his goals instead of hindering them

Related: 
• 6 Life Tips That Will Make You More Productive

Free speech and due process

Free speech is important from the perspective that concerned men or women should be able to speak out once they have identified corruption and degeneracy in their societies. In a well-educated population that is resistant to mob rule and raised on virtue and honorable values, ideas are only likely to be accepted if they are correct or scientifically sound. Otherwise, they are discarded, meaning that theoretically there should be no large danger posed by an incorrect idea within a healthy society.

Without free speech, reading this document right now may not be possible, meaning you might have stayed less aware of the sickness our society is currently facing. For that reason, citizens must be able to speak intelligently and freely as a defense mechanism against the backwards slide to cultural toxicity, of which it’s worth noting that free speech alone was no defense to our current ills. It should be no surprise that men today who have shared views that fall within the realm of neomasculine thought have been subject to censorious mob action.

Equal due process is also important. While men should be treated as the sex that knows more about how to structure society than women, both sexes, along with different races, must be held to the same legal standard.

Western law has currently gone so far to the side of women that men are no longer being treated with equal due process. They are being held to a different standard when it comes to consensual sex in colleges where extra-legal tribunals and punishing them and ruining their livelihoods based on allegations without sound evidence. Additionally, they are being imprisoned if they fail to pay child support, regardless of their employment status.

In spite of the fact that a man’s word is often more credible than a woman’s, since a woman is naturally more skilled at quickly inventing stories and rationalizations based on the feelings and emotions she’s experiencing, both sexes should be charged or prosecuted for crimes based on the legal evidence at hand, without consideration of their sex.

Related: 
• What Is A Social Justice Warrior (SJW)?
• Are You An Enemy Of Liberty?

Testosterone

Testosterone is the biological hormone that is responsible for masculine behavior and characteristics such as muscle development, voice deepening, body hair, aggression, and a host of positive cognitive effects. Men are a unique sex primarily because of this hormone, and any decrease of its concentration in a population of men through environmental pollution or dystopian regulation will decrease masculine behaviors.

Being a man is not a social construct—it’s a primarily biological construct that is heavily dependent on healthy body and brain function that results from appropriate testosterone levels. An unhealthy society will undoubtedly be composed of males with stunted levels of testosterone.

Entrepreneurship

Major sources of employment for men are corporations and medium-sized businesses, but they have become an increasingly unreliable and hostile means for men to earn their daily bread, especially if the work environment includes women.

Men in modern workplaces are forced to submit to the authoritarian whims of the female-dominated Human Resources department, where their statements and behaviors are monitored for anything causing the slightest offense, meaning that men are one politically incorrect statement away from losing out on a promotion or outright getting fired. Even if they behave according to corporate regulations, they are still subject to dubious training programs which treat them as innate harassers of women and minorities. In such an environment, a woman can easily hurt a man’s employment through false allegations.

Even if a man exhibits perfect behavior, a slight downturn in business means he can get fired immediately. The corporation is designed to have no loyalty to a man and his prior service, even if he was an integral part of the company’s prior success.

For the above reasons, it is important for a man to start his own business or firm. He will be able to pick and choose the customers that he wants to serve and not have his livelihood be dependent on a petty manager or disgruntled woman who sets out to destroy him.

Most men begin their path to entrepreneurship by developing a freelancing side business while employed full time, but at some point he will have to make the jump from being dependent on only one company. The world is so hostile to the ideas and behavior of the neomasculine man that he must view corporate employment as a short-term solution until he can develop his own business. Otherwise, he sets himself up for future destitution.

Related: 
• It’s Better To Have Guts Than Brains
• There Are No Rules

Red pill truths

While “red pill” has many definitions, it’s consistently used as a way or means to view the world in an objective, truthful, and factual manner, no matter how inconvenient or painful. It may seem redundant to need a method of seeking truth of the world, since it should be a default technique for all educated persons in a society, but identity politics and special interests deliberately conceal and distort truths to further utopian ideals or to consolidate their own selfish need for power.

For example, today’s left-leaning establishment deliberately conceals differences in sex and race in order to promote an ideal of equality that is meant to severely handicap men. They also downplay a woman’s true nature to deceive the public on the benefits of fluid dating when it is in fact wreaking havoc on monogamy by encouraging women to tickle their most hedonistic urges that breed anarchy and instability into human pair bonding.

The opposite of red pill truth is “blue pill” ignorance, whereby people maintain large blind spots in their thinking or observations to shield themselves from the undeniable facts of human behavior and reality. Some people adhere to blue pill ideas because they have been brainwashed while others do so purposefully to raise their position in the hierarchy of the group they’re a member of.

Related: 
• The 5 Paths To Realizing Truth
• 11 Hard Truths I Learned From Taking The Red Pill

Male-only spaces

The ability to be a man—as according to nature—has diminished in recent years as women invade all spaces that were traditionally male, going so far as to protest to be served in male barber shops (1, 2).

After women are included in male spaces, men have to speak and act with a filter to not offend the sensitive women, removing the masculine banter and jockeying that is an important part of male friendship and development. By having women in all spaces, men are no longer able to nurture their masculine side, and instead sacrifice the strength of their friendships and limit display of their natural identity in order to appease the females that are now present, who relish the male attention they can receive at little cost.

Men and women should be allowed to co-mingle in designated spaces, but other spaces should be exclusively male, forbidding women from participating. At the same time, women are encouraged to have their own female spaces free of men so that they can nurture their feminine qualities.

Related: 
• Why Women And Gays Should Not Be Allowed In Male-Safe Spaces

Sexual moderation

Men have a biological need for sex that must be sated for them to function normally, but if that need is overshot, such as in the case of sleeping with women only for ego gratification, the man begins sacrificing more important needs for fleeting pleasure that will provide no lasting meaning. It is normal for a man to pursue sex because he wants sex, but pursuing sex because he wants to impress others, hit an artificial notch count of women, or alleviate personal insecurities will invariably result in self-harm and lost time.

Game is a tool that allows a man to fulfill his sex and relationship needs, but once game is used outside of those needs, he will succumb to hedonistic urges that are no different than a woman uploading selfies every day on Facebook to receive validation for her appearance. A man must always check his sexual behavior with the needs of his body and spirit to make sure he is not trying to satisfy the bottomless pit of his animalistic hunger.

The sexual activity of women must be even more closely monitored than men. Repeated studies shows that a marriage is more likely to fail based on higher number of sexual partners a woman—but not a man—had before marrying (1, 2, 3, 4), a fact that should be obvious to any man who has experienced the highly impulsive and shallow behavior of easy women. The results of these studies clearly show that a marriage is at high risk of failure if a woman had more than two sexual partners before marrying. (An additional study showed that promiscuous women are more likely to abuse substances, regardless of her age.)

A high level of promiscuity on the part of the woman will also expose her to more sexually transmitted diseases, particularly the common infections of chlamydia and gonorrhea, that may render her sterile and incapable of reproducing. Lastly, the indigestion of birth control in pill form, which offers a frictionless path to promiscuity, impairs their ability to become pregnant up to a year (and possible longer) after they stop taking it, harming their reproductive potential.

Even though traditional marriage is the best path towards societal stability, it is becoming extremely difficult for a man today to find a woman with an acceptable sexual history and proper values that wouldn’t put a possible marriage at great risk of failure. This risk, combined with the fact that the state has marriage laws biased in disproportionate favor towards women, essentially turns husbands into hostages within their own homes, making them have to suffer a woman’s impulsive “no-fault” decision for divorce (80% of them are initiated by women). With the ensuing financial ruin and emotional turmoil that would result, it is no longer an automatic safe bet for men to marry in a Western nation.

Related: 
• Western Men Are Becoming Evolutionary Dead-Ends
• Ego Sex
• Is Your Game Sustainable?

Nuclear family

The most stable family unit that fosters normal development of children is a nuclear family composed of one father and one mother in the same home. Further aid may possibly come from extended family members living either nearby or in the same household.

Single parent households must be avoided because they have shown to significantly harm the development and overall well-being of children. In England, children from single-parent households are nine times likely to engage in crime, and a Department Of Justice study (PDF) found that 70% of incarcerated youth came from single parent homes. A newer study with a sample size of over 16,000 show that children raised by single mothers are 70% more likely to develop Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), which harms their mental development and education while increasing their risk of hospitalization due to injury and respiratory infections. Even more severe, children raised in single parent households are 82% more likely to be raised in poverty than children raised in nuclear family homes.

It is now politically incorrect to question if being raised by a single mother increases the child’s risk for poverty, homelessness, mental illness, physical disease, and substance abuse, even though a multitude of studies clearly point in that direction. Those who have an agenda in pushing single motherhood are ignoring existing data at hand that shows it brings great harm to children and, as a result, society.

Related: 
• Female Empowerment Is Slavery
• How Hypergamy Is Destroying The Nuclear Family

Binary sex model

The binary sex model consists of only two sexes, male and female, which is determined at birth by a person’s genetics. It is the most stable, natural, and biological approach to human classification. Behaviors by genetically born males will lean masculine while behaviors by genetically born females will lean feminine, though variation in human stock can cause marginal overlap. There are also exceptions with hermaphrodites, deformed humans who are born with genitalia from both sexes.

Any attempt to manually seek out a gender or identity outside of the binary sex model is artificial, non-biological, and deviant. Such a practice is not conducive to family formation or sanity on a societal level A society can be definitively labeled ill if it enables its citizens to artificially invent gender identities and pick them at will as if shopping for fruit in a supermarket. Even worse is outright facilitating mentally ill individuals to change their sex, which leads to an increase in suicide and drug use without alleviating the underlying mental disorder.

Academics and corporations are now eagerly promoting and catering to “new” genders such as polysexual, genderqueer, pangender, and skoliosexual. If a child believed it was a snake and started biting others, we would get him professional help, but we are now taking seriously grown adults who go so far to claim they are “two spirit,” which means that they have the spirit of both men and women inside them, or “otherkin,” where they claim to be animals like wolves, badgers, or deer mistakenly born into a human body. Such delusions are being normalized as mentally acceptable human behavior.

The binary sex model has flaws in that it will not perfectly suit those who possess personality and behavioral traits from the opposite sex, meaning that institutions and spaces for homosexuals or transsexuals won’t be constructed, but at the same time it is inappropriate to encourage or enable a person to jump out of their genetically determined sex by opening the door on dozens of different gender identities and orientations that definitively harm the individual.

In a patriarchal society with traditional sex roles, only a tiny minority will have trouble with their assigned sex at birth. They should not be allowed to disrupt the lifestyle and healthy traditions of those who soundly fit into the natural binary model.

Related: 
• The Rise Of Heterophobia
• America Is Becoming A Homosexual Nation

Feminine beauty ideals

Feminine beauty is highly objective and can be reliably measured across different cultures in two principal ways: body measurement and facial symmetry.

Body measurement comprises three numbers in inches that are displayed in the following format: 36-24-36. The first number is the size of the chest around the breasts, the second number is size of the waist right above the navel, and the third is the size of hips around the buttocks.

Scientific studies have shown that a waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7 is linked to high fertility in women. The distribution of fat around bodies produced by such a ratio is biologically linked to an optimal concentration of bodily hormones that would most greatly aid in reproduction. Not coincidentally, such as ratio is found to be most attractive to men from all around the world.

Men therefore subconsciously determine a large part of a woman’s attractiveness based on her ability to successfully reproduce, and this is exemplified by an hourglass figure that a 0.7 waist-to-hip ratio consistently displays. While certain aspects of beauty taste may change over the years, such as hair color or lip fullness, a waist-to-hip ratio of 0.7 leads to the best biological functioning for reproduction, and so will be seen as most attractive by virile men.

The hourglass figure can also come in different shapes, which is why even more voluptuous women can still be seen as highly attractive if their waist-to-hip ratio is still close to the optimum value. But if a woman’s body resembles something more like a milk carton, she is far away from the ideal ratio and should not be dismayed if men find her unattractive.

0.7 waist to hip ratio

0.7 waist to hip ratio

0.7 waist to hip ratio

Facial symmetry is the second component of beauty that can be reliably measured. You may be surprised to know that the left and right sides of your face are quite different. One artist created two full faced figures by doubling a person’s left side or right, leading to images that can look drastically different. Additional studies consistently show that people rate others with symmetrical faces as more attractive and in better health, two traits that humans want to pass on to their offspring.

Even if symmetrical individuals are not actually in better health that those who are asymmetrical, our genetic wiring clearly prefers symmetrical individuals, a fact known since the time of the Ancient Greeks judging by the art they left behind. It is thought that animals who display asymmetry had poor development that exposed them to environmental or genetic stress, lowering their reproductive fitness.

Here is a selection of attractive celebrities with highly symmetrical faces:

sym1 sym2 sym3 sym4

Symmetrically challenged individuals are consistently rated as less beautiful:

Facial asymmetry Facial asymmetry Facial asymmetry 

While female attraction for males can be complex and dependent on many factors that includes a man’s resources, charisma, social status, and appearance, male attraction for females is more narrow and highly correlated to body shape and facial symmetry. Therefore we can easily debunk notions that beauty is a social construct or that women with a waist-to-hip ratio over 1, suggesting advanced obesity and diabetes, can be attractive to a man with a functioning brain and normal vision. The movement of fat acceptance is a particularly damaging notion since obesity shortens human life spans, increases public health expenditures by $190 billion a year in the USA alone, and is one of the most reliable symptoms of mental illness.

From the available data, we must conclude that there are objective patterns in beauty that make some individuals clearly more attractive than others. In America, women who are not beautiful, due to their genetic bad luck or gluttonous lifestyle, are using bogus science and shaming to convince the masses they are indeed beautiful. Such attempts should be immediately discarded as absurd.

Related: 
• The War Against Beauty
• Long Hair In Women Correlates To Beauty, Fertility, And Health
• 6 Reasons Why Fat Women Are Defective

Natural health and hygiene

Modern medicine has made great advances in treating ailments that used to more easily kill our ancestors, especially when it comes to bacterial and viral infections. If you are suffering from illness, your first instinct should be to see a doctor. However, the pharmaceutical industry, along with corporations that sell health products, have a financial incentive to maintain profits by selling expensive medicines or health solutions that must be used over a long period of time without solving the underlying problem.

A man must carefully weigh the costs and benefits of whatever medicine, supplement, and health product he’s using and ask himself if there is a more cheap and effective alternative with less side effects. A classic example is baking soda, which has been found by large numbers of men to be superior to chemical deodorants. Other men swear by non-pharmaceutical solutions that either maintain good health or solve existing body issues. Examples include apple cider vinegar (various ailments), coconut oil (skin), vitamin D (mood), zinc (male sex drive), hydrogen peroxide (bad breath), cranberry extract (UTI), light therapy (sleep), green tea (antioxidant), nasal irrigation (sinus infection), and fish oil (dry eye). Many others can be found on Earth Clinic.

There are serious diseases and problems that only modern medicine can handle, but for minor ailments and hygiene issues, men would be better served by finding more natural remedies that don’t carry an unnecessarily heavy cost.

Male virtue and development

We’re taught that the biological reason we are here is to survive and reproduce, but since both are now easy to accomplish without much of a strain on our energy or resources, we are given extra time to live for reasons beyond the biological. How should men spend that time? What code of morality or principles should guide men in their daily lives? Is there a deeper life meaning that can help us set better goals?

The answers to the questions are difficult, but they must be asked. While most of the world is running downhill to pursue immorality, degeneracy, and base pleasures, the self-actualized man must instead climb upwards along the harder path that makes him a better man today than he was yesterday. He must instill within himself a code that creates right action and right thoughts to separate himself from the hysterical masses, allowing him to operate on an elevated level of consciousness and existence.

Aristotle’s cardinal virtues were prudence, temperance, courage, and justice. Eastern philosophies teach self-control of desire. Stoicism tempers desire and aims for mental fortitude against misfortune. Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry David Thoreau taught self-reliance. It’s important to examine the great men of the past to construct a living code that can aid men in the present, because it’s certain that a consumer lifestyle with authoritarian deference to false prophets fails to lead to male virtue or character advancement. Such progress can only come from deeper thought and self-examination.

Related: 
• 7 Reasons Why American Culture Is The Most Degenerate In The World
• The Lives Of Great Men As Moral Instruction
• An Introduction To Stoicism With The Enchiridion By Epictetus
• How To Reverse America’s Cultural Decline

Anti-socialism

The two biggest problems with socialism as an ideology is that (1) it takes from the strong to give to the weak, and (2) it makes individuals dependent on the government to survive.

Those who apply effort to obtain benefits deriving from their labor, virtue, or fortunate genetics should be able to keep the bulk of its rewards instead of making forceful donations under the barrel of the state’s gun to those with a lower worth ethic or constitution. Beautiful women are—due to nature’s prescription—more deserving of high value men. Men who are born with a higher level of intelligence are more deserving of advanced jobs that pay more. Anyone who is more willing to trade their labor for income is deserving of a higher income.

We must not allow the poor to starve on the streets, but it is counterproductive to encourage those on the bottom to beg for more benefits instead of lifting up their own station to a suitable job position that can provide for their basic survival needs.

The effects of socialism are even more damaging when it comes to gender relations, because women now seek out the government as a substitute provider to help them survive instead of using the feminine gifts given to her by nature to land a husband. With her survival needs met thanks to a government bending over to bail out her impulsive decisions, she can spend up to two decades pursuing excitement in the males she meets without any worry about her future. She is no longer punished for her mistakes.

It’s no surprise that single motherhood in the United States has exploded in the past few decades. Why should a woman find a good man who she must serve and satisfy when she can fornicate with sexy men and have the government send her monthly checks and crates of food at no cost? The perverse incentives that socialist policies create mean that women are encouraged to treat men as battery-operated sex dildos that can satisfy her present desires instead of carefully evaluating men for their long-term worth. This has decimated the institution of marriage and also created future criminals and emotional man-children of the state who did not have the opportunity to develop strong values in a stable nuclear home that included a father.

People in genuine need can be provided with temporary assistance by the state to help them through rough spots in their lives, but it shouldn’t be the job of the government to enable citizens to make poor decisions by providing permanent assistance with no strings attached. Limiting such aid would bring out the more industrious and hard-working side of those on the lower economic scale while encouraging women not to whore around and have bastard children because they wanted to gratify their boredom by seeking out bad boys who are exciting to pursue.

Related: 
• Social Welfare Creates A Society Of Sluts
• Appearance Is Ideology
• The Frenchman Who Took A Stand Against Socialism
• Is Democracy Dying?

Technological skepticism

Technology has brought many benefits to those living in the 21st century. Food is cheaper than in the past (as a percentage of total income expenditure), appliances make maintaining and cleaning the home easier, and electronic devices allow you to instantly access information and media. Very few individuals would like the clock rolled back to a time when we didn’t have such developments, but we must accept that there is a human cost of each step forward made in technological advancement.

Food is cheaper, but now over 50% of Americans are morbidly obese. It’s easier to maintain a home, but now women have left that home to serve a corporate master instead of her husband. The internet has given us information and entertainment that makes reading this very article a simple matter, but it has created electronic junkies with short attention spans who are less able and willing to rationally communicate with their fellow man. The laws of the universe ensure that there is no free lunch.

One obvious example of a heavy technological cost is the smartphone, a handheld computer and communication device that was rapidly adopted by most individuals in the Western world starting in 2007 when the first generation Apple iPhone was released. Heralded by most as an amazing invention that will bring forth informational bliss, it’s clear that the smartphone has damaged gender relations by making women less capable of love and more capable of resistance-free hypergamy, cheating, and attention whoring.

Not a single technologist stopped to think about how the smartphone would affect humans, and so now we are left with the wreckage it has created. While it’s a great tool for business and playing rudimentary games, humanity would suffer only minor effects if they were suddenly banned overnight.

With every technological benefit, there is also a cost, and we must carefully examine such costs before the widespread encouragement and adoption of any shiny new gadget that is forced upon us by corporate marketers or the utopists in Silicon Valley.

Related: 
• Is Digital Technology Destroying The Middle Class?
• Amusing Ourselves To Death 
• Building A Bridge To The 18th Century

Deeper meaning and spirituality

While nihilism may be preferable for some, it does not provide sufficient answers for most men who want to live their one life with deliberate purpose and meaning. Being trapped in a completely random existence while floating on a big rock hurtling through an infinitely growing universe can cause men to lose sight of their own self development of masculinity and virtue. Traditional religious beliefs can fill in these gaps of meaning.

In spite of the faults of organized religion, believers pursue a moral code that has been tested and refined for hundreds of years, giving it far more weight and value than Western consumerism and hedonism, a relatively modern invention. While the scientific conclusions of atheism can provide some answers of our reality, such a purely logical set of beliefs will lack the traditional and heuristic components that aid man with living well today, leaving them with a value system of Swiss cheese that allows skilled profiteers and propagandists to fill the holes. It’s highly likely that atheists would be well-served by incorporating some religious traditions or beliefs to help guide them towards more purposeful and worthwhile life outcomes.


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## Shadow Tag (Jan 11, 2014)

^ Reading (okay, skimming) that made me feel the most uncomfortable I've felt in ages, good god.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

I hate to be a downer, but just because some men choose to say sexist things like "women aren't women any more", there's no need to retaliate with "men aren't men any more". That estranges several portions of the demographic that aren't even guilty of the offense and that sort of hurt is what makes a lot of men (and women) distance themselves from feminist movements.

An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.


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## Gilly (Apr 22, 2012)

@cybersloth81 Please learn to 
* *






Thanks for that wall of text.


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## Gilly (Apr 22, 2012)

Night Huntress said:


> I hate to be a downer, but just because some men choose to say sexist things like "women aren't women any more", there's no need to retaliate with "men aren't men any more". That estranges several portions of the demographic that aren't even guilty of the offense and that sort of hurt is what makes a lot of men (and women) distance themselves from feminist movements.
> 
> An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.


Good cheer my fellow six. I appreciate the argument. And agree. Continue.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> I hate to be a downer, but just because some men choose to say sexist things like "women aren't women any more", there's no need to retaliate with "men aren't men any more". That estranges several portions of the demographic that aren't even guilty of the offense and that sort of hurt is what makes a lot of men (and women) distance themselves from feminist movements.
> 
> An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.


Nothing wrong with a bit of justice.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

When bored from the flu one day I took to imigur for amusement. Instead I was....disappointed.

The comment section for images making fun of women read like this:

Women: Yeah, we do that.

The pictures saying anything less than flatoring about men:

Men: That's not faaaaair! 
And then degraded into an anti-women MRA whine fest.

This is why I believe that the stereotype of the "overly-sensitive" was started to keep people from seeing who the _real_ sensies are.


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## Kvothe Lackless (Dec 30, 2015)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


Is this aimed at my thread?

I did put a disclaimer.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Fumetsu said:


> When bored from the flu one day I took to imigur for amusement. Instead I was....disappointed.
> 
> The comment section for images making fun of women read like this:
> 
> ...


Yes I noticed that in the army.

When I left the latest recruits were whining about stuff not being fair.

When I joined if you sai dsomething wasn't fair you went round the back of the garages and sorted it out.

Or if on tour two people went into the desert and sorted it out.

Now a days, with all the PC and stupid laws, all we can actually do is whine because if we sort it out there are bad consequences.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

Is anyone really this upset that this sort of topic is just becoming more and more relevant with time? That gender dynamics are this borked in this day and age? Personally I am not upset, and find it quite humorous. I come here nearly every morning with my coffee and phenibut and sugar biscuits and just skim through all the signs of social decay. I'm not exactly happy about it but I'm pretty comfy also. Literally just chilling here in a genuine leather chair I bought from some Korean War veteran who played catch with John F. Kennedy and s n u g g l i n g up in this faux fur jacket feeling cozy as fuck here


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## Gilly (Apr 22, 2012)

Kvothe Lackless said:


> Is this aimed at my thread?
> 
> I did put a disclaimer.


Lol. No it is not directed at you. I didn't even read your thread (sorry). 

Just been seeing a lot of threads here, and elsewhere (everywhere) about this sort of thing. 

Ass holes in every group. People just need to live and let live. The topic is inverse to keep balance in the universe. 
If someone could make one for the outlying gender groups. That'd be *awesome*.


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## DemonAbyss10 (Oct 28, 2010)

Night Huntress said:


> I hate to be a downer, but just because some men choose to say sexist things like "women aren't women any more", there's no need to retaliate with "men aren't men any more". That estranges several portions of the demographic that aren't even guilty of the offense and that sort of hurt is what makes a lot of men (and women) distance themselves from feminist movements.
> 
> An eye for an eye will only make the whole world blind.


Pretty much this. I myself have been getting sick of all sides of the argument. Vocal minorities need to be recognized as such (and not as a general stereotype to lump everyone into, not all men are misogynists, not all women are misandrysts, not all conservatives are whackjobs, not all liberals are pussies. Not all cops are bad, not all people of african descent are gangsta thugs. These are just a few examples.), not just in this issue but societal politics in general, and treated as such.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

As per Gustov.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

cybersloth81 said:


> Nothing wrong with a bit of justice.


What is just is not always what is right or productive. 

That said, I know Gilly, and I know she would have meant it in good faith.


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## Endologic (Feb 14, 2015)

Oooh, someone would absolutely _love_ to get dominated by Khal Drogo!
(Game Of Thrones)


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

flummoxed said:


> Except a well rounded pair of breasts..


Its about the face the eyes then the tits.


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## mhysa (Nov 27, 2014)

Plumedoux said:


> I'm tired of women seeing sexism everywhere


well we're tired of experiencing sexism, so...........................................................


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


Yay !!!

Gilly's revenge !!!

Gilly is right however that there have been a lot of whining frat boy threads.

Me, personally, I have no idea what is up with the younger generations -- younger here having the meaning of anyone under 50.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> Its about the face the eyes then the tits.


I would say:

1 - face

2 - ass

3 - teats

4 - hair

5 - no tats

6 - no smoking

7 - no dope


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

95134hks said:


> I would say:
> 
> 1 - face
> 
> ...


1 - In healthy shape and takes pride of appearance

2 - Hair

3 - Face

4 - Eyes

6 - Tits

7- Tats - If loads of small ones - complete turn off. If they are actually impressive - then possible turn on - dependent on location

8 - No Kids

9 - No strong political views

Once physical attributes are met: Sense of humor, common sense, soft nature

Once personality traits are met: Main focus on life is having fun and enjoying it also loyalty

Also important aspect: Its not about her, its not about me, its about the relationship

Not sure what this has to do with men not being men. As this seems a stereotypically male like conversation but all in all if all those are met, Id class them as a keeper and probably put 100% into maintaining a relationship. IE I would take it seriously.


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## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

mhysa said:


> well we're tired of experiencing sexism, so...........................................................


What sexism? You are imagining things you silly feminist! 

* glances at posts above *

Ah, so you are NOT imagining things.... Hmmm, how unexpected - quite shocking. I must reassess - maybe sexism actually does exists? Maybe it's not a myth? Maybe... just maybe... it's so common that no one even reflects over it? Maybe it's so prevalent that it's become acceptable? I'm baffled! Just baffled!


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Swede said:


> What sexism? You are imagining things you silly feminist!
> 
> * glances at posts above *
> 
> Ah, so you are NOT imagining things.... Hmmm, how unexpected - quite shocking. I must reassess - maybe sexism actually does exists? Maybe it's not a myth? Maybe... just maybe... it's so common that no one even reflects over it? Maybe it's so prevalent that it's become acceptable? I'm baffled! Just baffled!


That's got nothing to do with males being superior to females.

Its just statements on what we find attractive.

Im sure you have your own tastes and preferences in partners.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> 1 - In healthy shape and takes pride of appearance
> 
> 2 - Hair
> 
> ...


I don't worry about politics. Odds are we are just going to cancel each other's votes out anyway.

I don't mind kids. Actually kids are a benefit.

A daughter will be needed to take care of her after I am gone anyway.

And a son could be fun and company for me if his father does not get in the way too much.

I could take the kid fishing.

I could take the kid hiking.

We could all go bicycling.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

Swede said:


> What sexism? You are imagining things you silly feminist!
> 
> * glances at posts above *
> 
> Ah, so you are NOT imagining things.... Hmmm, how unexpected - quite shocking. I must reassess - maybe sexism actually does exists? Maybe it's not a myth? Maybe... just maybe... it's so common that no one even reflects over it? Maybe it's so prevalent that it's become acceptable? I'm baffled! Just baffled!


The above are just preliminaries.

They tell me whether or not I would be interested in her beautiful mind.

And tats all over is a warped troubled mind.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

95134hks said:


> I don't worry about politics. Odds are we are just going to cancel each other's votes out anyway.
> 
> I don't mind kids. Actually kids are a benefit.
> 
> ...



I don't want to get back into the topic of kids. As this has been discussed to death before.

But basically if they are not my own, I want to be able to hand them back at the end of the day. 

But as far as son or daughter goes, my one priority would be to teach them self defence or find somewhere/someone that could do so. More so for Daughter. I know we live in a victim card society, but if/when I have kids I would like to think I would do everything in my power to prevent them from becoming victims. And I have no issue with teaching a daughter how to fight dirty, its her survival at end of day.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

95134hks said:


> The above are just preliminaries.
> 
> They tell me whether or not I would be interested in her beautiful mind.
> 
> And tats all over is a warped troubled mind.


Im sure dating would be so much easier if people were up front about what they were looking for. 
Just put it out there, if I see someone I like and they want something different, then cool I know not to waste my time or their time.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> Im sure dating would be so much easier if people were up front about what they were looking for.
> Just put it out there, if I see someone I like and they want something different, then cool I know not to waste my time or their time.


Well most people are looking for at least a meal ticket.

Some predators are looking for retirement income like the lottery.

Some others may just want a night of casual sex.

They all pretend to be sincere to get at what they really want.


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## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

cybersloth81 said:


> That's got nothing to do with males being superior to females.
> 
> Its just statements on what we find attractive.
> 
> Im sure you have your own tastes and preferences in partners.


- I don't feel the need to tell everyone what I prefer - especially in a thread where it's not relevant. 
- I look a little more in depth than just body parts - this is a psychology forum, not a dating site for horny teens/creeps. 
- Listing personality traits after physical traits is basically objectification and likely meant as a passive-aggressive insult to women. Or you are seriously shallow. 
- Of course it's sexist. Bringing in preferences in female body parts in a thread that has nothing to do with it. Kid your self all you want or try to manipulate the truth to suit you, it's still a fact. And it's still a fact that there are very few places women can get away from this kind of crap. And it's still a fact that it's often done as a form of bullying. If you just want to share your preferences with your 'buddies', just set up a PM list and share away, but here it's done to make a point. Or hey, go to the Tits & Ass thread (I bet most of you've already been there though...)

I agree, it has nothing to do with men being superior. Plenty of men on PerC keep proving that point over and over. Pretty funny, but I guess you can't see the irony in that either.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> I don't want to get back into the topic of kids. As this has been discussed to death before.
> 
> But basically if they are not my own, I want to be able to hand them back at the end of the day.
> 
> But as far as son or daughter goes, my one priority would be to teach them self defence or find somewhere/someone that could do so. More so for Daughter. I know we live in a victim card society, but if/when I have kids I would like to think I would do everything in my power to prevent them from becoming victims. And I have no issue with teaching a daughter how to fight dirty, its her survival at end of day.


The best self defense for a female is either a pistol if she can get good with it or else a can of pepper spray because that is the same technology as hair spray.

The best defense for a male is also a pistol (same "if") or else a black belt in something.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

Swede said:


> - I don't feel the need to tell everyone what I prefer - especially in a thread where it's not relevant.
> - I look a little more in depth than just body parts - this is a psychology forum, not a dating site for horny teens/creeps.
> - Listing personality traits after physical traits is basically objectification and likely meant as a passive-aggressive insult to women. Or you are seriously shallow.
> - Of course it's sexist. Bringing in preferences in female body parts in a thread that has nothing to do with it. Kid your self all you want or try to manipulate the truth to suit you, it's still a fact. And it's still a fact that there are very few places women can get away from this kind of crap. And it's still a fact that it's often done as a form of bullying. If you just want to share your preferences with your 'buddies', just set up a PM list and share away, but here it's done to make a point. Or hey, go to the Tits & Ass thread (I bet most of you've already been there though...)
> ...


CYBERS felt the need, indeed, and I was compelled to contradict him slightly.

This is more along the lines of when you are in a bar and a female walks in alone and sits down alone and stays alone.

The male human mind is programmed to consider these factors.

It's primordial.

Cute baby in your photo btw. Congrats.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Swede said:


> - I don't feel the need to tell everyone what I prefer - especially in a thread where it's not relevant.
> - I look a little more in depth than just body parts - this is a psychology forum, not a dating site for horny teens/creeps.
> - Listing personality traits after physical traits is basically objectification and likely meant as a passive-aggressive insult to women. Or you are seriously shallow.
> - Of course it's sexist. Bringing in preferences in female body parts in a thread that has nothing to do with it. Kid your self all you want or try to manipulate the truth to suit you, it's still a fact. And it's still a fact that there are very few places women can get away from this kind of crap. And it's still a fact that it's often done as a form of bullying. If you just want to share your preferences with your 'buddies', just set up a PM list and share away, but here it's done to make a point. Or hey, go to the Tits & Ass thread (I bet most of you've already been there though...)
> ...


When I see someone, I see them first. Then if Im interested I get to know their personality, ie from talking to them.

If you are psychic and can read someones mind before you lay eyes on them. Then cool good for you.

But me I don't have that ability, so I generally do get visual input first.

That's not passive-aggressive, that's the way my fucking brain works. Sorry I have the inferior model.


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

Fredward said:


>


The most basic, yet obnoxiously effective thank-whoring strategy.


----------



## Evolvenda (Aug 10, 2015)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


But...but...complaining absolves me of all guilt and hard work. It's so satisfying! Hmph...:sad:


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

95134hks said:


> CYBERS felt the need, indeed, and I was compelled to contradict him slightly.
> 
> This is more along the lines of when you are in a bar and a female walks in alone and sits down alone and stays alone.
> 
> ...


I was responding to someone who said that tits are what matters. I thought I was doing the right thing by saying there is more to a woman than a set of tits. 

You then posted a longer list. So I wanted to establish that there was more than face eyes tits.

But yes this is more of a bar, nightclub, cocktail lounge thing. Probably also the way online dating works. You see photo's then if interested you read the description.

Generally these places (not the online dating) is where I meet members of the opposite sex.


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## Evolvenda (Aug 10, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

95134hks said:


> The best self defense for a female is either a pistol if she can get good with it or else a can of pepper spray because that is the same technology as hair spray.
> 
> The best defense for a male is also a pistol (same "if") or else a black belt in something.


UK over here so guns are risky as they are generally illegal. Granted shotguns are allowed for hunting but there are strict laws.

Hence the Blackbelt route + non queens rules boxing.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Swede said:


> - I look a little more in depth than just body parts - this is a psychology forum, not a dating site for horny teens/creeps.
> .


A) Im not here for dating/
B) Visual perception is studied under psychology.



> In order to receive information from the environment we are equipped with sense organs e.g. eye, ear, nose. Each sense organ is part of a sensory system which receives sensory inputs and transmits sensory information to the brain.


Visual Perception | Simply Psychology

I still don't see how having preferences in dating is superiority, but yeah what ever. If you cant handle rejection when in the dating world, you keep twisting the truth to how you want it.


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## Emerald Legend (Jul 13, 2010)

Plumedoux said:


> And they are right to complain, I'm tired of the princess behavior of women, I'm tired of women seeing sexism everywhere, I'm tired of women using double standard. Now I'm not a men because I'm complaining, I'm tired of women complaining that men complain about women. And I'm tired to complain, so I stop here !


their reasoning goes like this.

You can complain as a man..thank feminism, please!..it fixes everything.
Oh, you're complaining about not getting sex? Suck it up! I get sex so you should be able to too and easily if you're normal and try_ [_forget that women are the ones who chooses mates for sex. Forget their hypocrit ways of choosing mates ("I wanna nice guy" while getting railed by Chad from a sketchy rock bar on the reg)]


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## mhysa (Nov 27, 2014)

Swede said:


> ... this is a psychology forum, not a dating site for horny teens/creeps.


although you'd never guess such a thing since there are so many predators and horny dudes on here that send female members unwanted advances via PM, visitor messages, etc. goddamn.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

mhysa said:


> although you'd never guess such a thing since there are so many predators and horny dudes on here that send female members unwanted advances via PM, visitor messages, etc. goddamn.


Wash your mouth out with soap !!! Again !!!


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

It's true: women don't know how to appreciate men. If I could turn all men bisexual, and show them the time of their lives, I would.

*snaps*


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> UK over here so guns are risky as they are generally illegal. Granted shotguns are allowed for hunting but there are strict laws.
> 
> Hence the Blackbelt route + non queens rules boxing.


Ok if UK then a knife culture instead. Or you can use a broken beer bottle which is probably even better than a knife because the flared glass acts like a buckler shield too, AND it cuts.

But in European countries like this where you can only get shotguns then criminals can easily saw off the shotgun which makes a destructive device much more lethal than a pistol. But law abiding subjects cannot drag a sawed off shotgun with them everywhere because it is too bulky.

Otherwise bullying would be the only issue in which case a black belt in something is the right answer.


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## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

WamphyriThrall said:


> It's true: women don't know how to appreciate men. If I could turn all men bisexual, and show them the time of their lives, I would.
> 
> *snaps*


Wash your mouth out with soap too !!!


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Emerald Legend said:


> their reasoning goes like this.
> 
> You can complain as a man..thank feminism, please!..it fixes everything.
> Oh, you're complaining about not getting sex? Suck it up! I get sex so you should be able to too and easily if you're normal and try_ [_forget that women are the ones who chooses mates for sex. Forget their hypocrit ways of choosing mates ("I wanna nice guy" while getting railed by Chad from a sketchy rock bar on the reg)]


I hope no one responds before I get my popcorn ready.


----------



## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> A) Im not here for dating/
> B) Visual perception is studied under psychology.
> 
> 
> ...


When you started this you kicked over a hornets' nest huh ?!

Now they are stinging you back !?


----------



## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> I was responding to someone who said that tits are what matters. I thought I was doing the right thing by saying there is more to a woman than a set of tits.
> 
> You then posted a longer list. So I wanted to establish that there was more than face eyes tits.
> 
> ...


Well when first seeing someone in a bar, the face is usually the first thing that grabs your attention -- you were right about that. And I completely agree.


----------



## flummoxed (Jun 29, 2015)

95134hks said:


> Well when first seeing someone in a bar, the face is usually the first thing that grabs your attention -- you were right about that. And I completely agree.


I feel like I notice the curvature of a womans body before her face. That's much more important to being, "sexy" if you ask me. Faces are for, "cute".


----------



## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

flummoxed said:


> I feel like I notice the curvature of a womans body before her face. That's much more important if you ask me.


But you gotta wake up eventually when all the booze wears off and then whether or not you gnaw off your arm to get away will depend on how pretty her face is in the morning.


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

95134hks said:


> When you started this you kicked over a hornets' nest huh ?!
> 
> Now they are stinging you back !?


Comes with the territory.

Just cant be arsed stepping on eggshells.

Anyway Im going to bed now.


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

flummoxed said:


> I feel like I notice the curvature of a womans body before her face. That's much more important to being, "sexy" if you ask me. Faces are for, "cute".


Nah Im a face man, assuming correct hip to waist ratio. 
Its like they say, the eyes are the gateway to the soul or something. For me that is so true. 

If any blind women are reading this, sorry if I hurt your feelings. But it is not aimed at you specifically.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Swede said:


> - I don't feel the need to tell everyone what I prefer - especially in a thread where it's not relevant.
> - I look a little more in depth than just body parts - this is a psychology forum, not a dating site for horny teens/creeps.
> - Listing personality traits after physical traits is basically objectification and likely meant as a passive-aggressive insult to women. Or you are seriously shallow.
> - Of course it's sexist. Bringing in preferences in female body parts in a thread that has nothing to do with it. Kid your self all you want or try to manipulate the truth to suit you, it's still a fact. And it's still a fact that there are very few places women can get away from this kind of crap. And it's still a fact that it's often done as a form of bullying. If you just want to share your preferences with your 'buddies', just set up a PM list and share away, but here it's done to make a point. Or hey, go to the Tits & Ass thread (I bet most of you've already been there though...)
> ...


They obviously are not willing to reflect on or acknowledge how they play a part in perpetuating objectification of women. If anything, they're really just providing us with a fine example of everything that's wrong with some men. And they keep derailing even after your post, showing complete disregard to other people, which is disgustingly typical. If they were on PerC for personal growth reasons, they'd take a look at themselves, at least a little. Oh well. I appreciate you for calling them out on their bullshit, though.


----------



## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

kaleidoscope said:


> They obviously are not willing to reflect on or acknowledge how they play a part in perpetuating objectification of women. If anything, they're really just providing us with a fine example of everything that's wrong with some men. And they keep derailing even after your post, showing complete disregard to other people, which is disgustingly typical. If they were on PerC for personal growth reasons, they'd take a look at themselves, at least a little. Oh well. I appreciate you for calling them out on their bullshit, though.


Thanks, calling out the BS was the purpose of my response (since they were thick enough not to take a joke... * sigh *. Not expecting results really, just letting them know that I and many others know exactly what they are up to.


----------



## 95134hks (Dec 20, 2015)

kaleidoscope said:


> They obviously are not willing to reflect on or acknowledge how they play a part in perpetuating objectification of women. If anything, they're really just providing us with a fine example of everything that's wrong with some men. And they keep derailing even after your post, showing complete disregard to other people, which is disgustingly typical. If they were on PerC for personal growth reasons, they'd take a look at themselves, at least a little. Oh well. I appreciate you for calling them out on their bullshit, though.


Who are "they" ??

You're not supposed to start a paragraph with a pronoun.

Bad grammar.


----------



## Another Lost Cause (Oct 6, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> A) Im not here for dating/
> B) Visual perception is studied under psychology.
> 
> 
> ...


The hypocrisy is that a lot of men claim that women are impossible to please and attract because of their standards, and then all of a sudden, these same men proclaim their own list of standards they expect to see in women before they'd consider a relationship with them. I see men all of the time devaluing women based on frivolous criteria. For instance, why would you automatically reject a woman simply because she has strong political views? Afraid of a woman who thinks and has opinions?


----------



## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Another Lost Cause said:


> The hypocrisy is that a lot of men claim that women are impossible to please and attract because of their standards, and then all of a sudden, these same men proclaim their own list of standards they expect to see in women before they'd consider a relationship with them. I see men all of the time devaluing women based on frivolous criteria. For instance, why would you automatically reject a woman simply because she has strong political views? Afraid of a woman who thinks and has opinions?


I don't see why that would be an issue, unless they were political views opposite one's own. I'm guessing most of these guys are on the traditional/conservative side, and those women with strong political views have strong views on topics like abortion and rape, so it makes them uncomfortable. 

Or they're apolitical, like me, and can't stand someone harping on about party politics in general.


----------



## hohum (Dec 6, 2015)

It feels like society has it in for men nowadays. I think there were some deeply beneficial male qualities that's such a shame we've lost, like being a true gentleman. Even in parenting male qualities are frowned upon. The world will suffer just as badly ignoring men & pandering to women as the reverse


----------



## SevSevens (Aug 5, 2015)

Fredward said:


>


Whenever I read the word "vagina," and "pounding," in the same sentence I get a huge boner.


----------



## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

Metasentient said:


> The most basic, yet obnoxiously effective thank-whoring strategy.


Obnoxious yet effective has always been my motto in life.


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Another Lost Cause said:


> The hypocrisy is that a lot of men claim that women are impossible to please and attract because of their standards, and then all of a sudden, these same men proclaim their own list of standards they expect to see in women before they'd consider a relationship with them. I see men all of the time devaluing women based on frivolous criteria. For instance, why would you automatically reject a woman simply because she has strong political views? Afraid of a woman who thinks and has opinions?


Yeah I agree a lot of men do think so. But for me alone I don't blame the womans "standards" I look at myself. I also do self improvement and I also take the same pride in my appearance and so forth. I stay healthy, I make sure I am well groomed and I work on my social skills. So for me I don't see it as a double standard. Also I fully accept that women can/will/do reject me, its their choice. All I can do is present my best self. A relationship is not a garunteed thing.


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

WamphyriThrall said:


> I don't see why that would be an issue, unless they were political views opposite one's own. I'm guessing most of these guys are on the traditional/conservative side, and those women with strong political views have strong views on topics like abortion and rape, so it makes them uncomfortable.
> 
> Or they're apolitical, like me, and can't stand someone harping on about party politics in general.


Im apolitical. The politics are the politics. I just prefer to get on and enjoy my life rather than focussing on politics.

Also I don't vote, so as Im not going to do anything I don't focus on them. I just find the whole topic boring.
But that's just me.


----------



## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

I find the neomasculinity movement a reasonable yet ultimately fail concept. It is mostly a second swing of the pendulum and as such nowhere near the final answer. 

Destroying expectations for genders is a step in the right direction. 

I am not saying that the wise portions of the neomasculinity argument are not useful. New age promiscuity harms both men and women as does any unwise action. But the weight of judgement on all these matters is, in fact, maturity and wisdom, and ultimately the gender question is neutral to wisdom. The arguments about what nature intended are spurious and so clearly stupid they do not deserve much comment. Nature evidences all sex and gender orientations and identifications so any possible combination is what nature intended, ie there is no intent. To say otherwise due to the happenstance prevalence of gender roles or normative roles is just sheer stupidity.

There are people(men and women and other) out there who will disrespect and leave a 'real man' because even though they want one, society has current disdain for one. WTF is that? There are people out there who have wanted a real woman all their lives and even though god, society, and everyone else wants that for them, supposedly, they choose not to take it when its offered to them every day because some specific aspect of the situation is not exactly right ...

Fate is both kind and unkind. Since we have desires of many sources we often see it as unkind only. In the end that whole death thing seems really unkind, even if its fair. 

If I had been born a Viking, or back when I was born a Viking I raped and pillaged and burned and then got to thinking about it and stopped. In today's world I processed stuff, bought stuff, and sold stuff and then got to thinking about it and stopped. In both times I think the women wanted me to keep going.


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

kaleidoscope said:


> They obviously are not willing to reflect on or acknowledge how they play a part in perpetuating objectification of women. If anything, they're really just providing us with a fine example of everything that's wrong with some men. And they keep derailing even after your post, showing complete disregard to other people, which is disgustingly typical. If they were on PerC for personal growth reasons, they'd take a look at themselves, at least a little. Oh well. I appreciate you for calling them out on their bullshit, though.


Ern no its not BS.

That is how my brain works.

Ive never had another brain in my head so I have been stuck to this one.

Anyway you keep telling yourself you know my own mind better than I do. After all I have only had it for 34 years.

So tell me, what is my favourite colour. personally I would say Blue, but I guess you know better.

Anyway catcha later Mystic Meg


----------



## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

cybersloth81 said:


> Ern no its not BS.
> 
> That is how my brain works.
> 
> ...


Have you heard of "impulse control"? That is something that even fairly young children learn. We don't have to blurt out everything we see, think and feel.

For example, I walk down the street and see a person with a gigantic nose - I take a mental note, but I do not feel the need to tell everyone around me what I just observed, just because "my brain works that way". This is something that parents generally teach their kids at the toddler stage - as soon as kids start to talk.

Chances are that 
a) the person with the big nose is already aware and might even be tired of getting constant reminders (even if the reminders might be wrapped in as something 'positive')
b) people around you noticed the big nose all by themselves
c) it is a pretty irrelevant piece of information
d) it's generally considered pretty rude/immature

Again, feel free to reflect over this post or not - it's up to you.


----------



## Debatelizard (Jan 1, 2016)

What women want 101

Me. It's true. It just is.

So what am I you ask? Well, I will tell you. I am protective but not overbaring. I am confident but not arrogant, except onthis forum, but that's because you like it. You enjoy it with a sense of feeling gitty actually. Why am I telling you this? Because it's true, you want me to, and I can. Now come here and under-the-sheets wrestle me because I'm bored. I won't tickle you. (Fingers crossed)


----------



## flummoxed (Jun 29, 2015)

Swede said:


> Have you heard of "impulse control?


OH PLEASE. You make it sound as though women around here (and everywhere else) aren't being just as objectifying and flirtatious. It sure sounds like it's you hung up on outdated stereotype and not those your mad at.


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Swede said:


> Have you heard of "impulse control"? That is something that even fairly young children learn. We don't have to blurt out everything we see, think and feel.
> 
> For example, I walk down the street and see a person with a gigantic nose - I take a mental note, but I do not feel the need to tell everyone around me what I just observed, just because "my brain works that way". This is something that parents generally teach their kids at the toddler stage - as soon as kids start to talk.
> 
> ...


Theres this thing called the ignore button. Why don't you just ignore if you find me so rude and immature.

Also Im not making fun of anyone. Please point out where I was making fun of someone. If you so wish. I imagine you wont because I wasn't.


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

flummoxed said:


> OH PLEASE. You make it sound as though women around here (and everywhere else) aren't being just as objectifying and flirtatious. It sure sounds like it's you hung up on outdated stereotype and not those your mad at.


I honestly don't get it.

Ive had women tell me they like black guys only, women tell me they like shorter or taller guys, all sorts.

I don't see where the butt hurt comes from.

Its not like Im speaking on behalf of the whole male population. Its just personal views and tastes.

There are many men out there with different tastes.


----------



## Debatelizard (Jan 1, 2016)

If you ever want a reminder of what one feels like, talks like, and smells like, I am here for you. 

I'd much prefer you look me dead in the eye, start at my knee, and smell me up to my face, just before you rip my shirt off of me.


----------



## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


what do these men complain about? o.o


----------



## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

We're lumberjacks.


----------



## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I was skeptical about this, but then I saw this documentary about what Feminism is doing to men.

I felt the need to share it as a warning. 



* *






This is what will happen to you if you read feminist literature--you will no longer be a man:










It's not just a myth. It's a serious threat to everyone.


----------



## Cubi (May 5, 2013)

How can you be a man when talking about what you find attractive in a woman is sexist? ( with the words of a woman making money by whining how everything is sexist , everything is sexist and ____________phobic and problematic) 
Men arent what they used to be, but they are still men.


----------



## bkaylene (Oct 24, 2015)

flummoxed said:


> Except a well rounded pair of breasts..


False. And extremely shallow.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Enxu said:


> Those who see a need to constantly complain are as damaged as the ones they complain about. End of story.


"damaged"? you mean ignorant and defensive? plenty of people who complain all the time aren't "damaged", they're spoiled brats who don't have the reference experience to know what real problems are in the first place. saying they are "damaged" is absolving them of the responsibility develop past having pathetic character.


----------



## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


I cannot stand weakness in both camps. Hardly have to do anything with gender. Stand up or die trying


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

And double post.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

flummoxed said:


> OH PLEASE. You make it sound as though women around here (and everywhere else) aren't being just as objectifying and flirtatious. It sure sounds like it's you hung up on outdated stereotype and not those your mad at.


Oh please. Men are objectified, raped and have toxic gender stereotypes they have to live up to as well. More than willing to have a discussion about this, *if you bring it up as its own topic*. 

But since you're bringing it up as an attempt to override discussions about women, I call bullshit on your argument and your false pretense of actually giving a shit about men being objectified.


----------



## flummoxed (Jun 29, 2015)

kaleidoscope said:


> But since you're bringing it up as an attempt to override discussions about women


The topic of this thread is, "Men aren't men any more". Please tell me how that makes this a discussion about women?


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

flummoxed said:


> The topic of this thread is, "Men aren't men any more". Please tell me how that makes this a discussion about women?


So @Swede wasn't discussing women when you quoted her? Are you denying that you brought up the point about men being objectified just to shut her up?


----------



## Kurt Wagner (Aug 2, 2014)

tenefix said:


> ^ Reading (okay, skimming) that made me feel the most uncomfortable I've felt in ages, good god.


You skimmed all of that? :bored:


----------



## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

I suck it up.

Complaining is for internet forums, which I do on here. I wont do it in real life.

Problem is I believe in equality, so I generally expect other people to suck it up as well.


----------



## Kurt Wagner (Aug 2, 2014)

SevSevens said:


> Whenever I read the word "vagina," and "pounding," in the same sentence I get a huge boner.


It makes me wanna eat burritos.

I never ate a burrito.


----------



## Enxu (Dec 14, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> "damaged"? you mean ignorant and defensive? plenty of people who complain all the time aren't "damaged", they're spoiled brats who don't have the reference experience to know what real problems are in the first place. saying they are "damaged" is absolving them of the responsibility develop past having pathetic character.


Its a problem with definition. When I say damaged, it includes what you mentioned. People who are and remain damaged definitely have no sense of personal responsibility. That is why the only way they can handle their "flaws" is to project them onto others and then react to what they see in others.


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Men are men as long as they have a penis.


----------



## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Aya of Rivia said:


> Men are men as long as they have a penis.


*sighs*

Sarcasm?


----------



## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

WamphyriThrall said:


> *sighs*
> 
> Sarcasm?


Transsexuals will have a penis at a point.


----------



## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.


This is what happens when men start listening to women who aren't blonde and don't have nice breasts... Men should be men again!


----------



## aelona (Apr 29, 2015)

kaleidoscope said:


> Oh please. Men are objectified, raped and have toxic gender stereotypes they have to live up to as well. More than willing to have a discussion about this, *if you bring it up as its own topic*.
> 
> But since you're bringing it up as an attempt to override discussions about women, I call bullshit on your argument and your false pretense of actually giving a shit about men being objectified.


We are. Its just easier to talk about it as a female since there ll always be a nice guy defending you. We re just less vocal about it

Envoyé de mon SM-G920F en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## corpusaurelius (Jan 8, 2016)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...



cos it's not fact that gender roles are subjective.

cos it's also not fact the world revolves around your whims.


----------



## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

We will all become cyborgs eventually. Enjoy your engendered world while it lasts.


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Fleetfoot said:


> We will all become cyborgs eventually. Enjoy your engendered world while it lasts.


Nah the robots will wipe us out. We will be too busy fighting over our genders and ego's to be able to save ourselves.

May the robots have a brighter future than us. I wish them the best of luck. Wont be hard for them, just don't follow the human example.


----------



## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


Maybe it is just you growing up learning that the second experience with sex aint as scary as the first.


----------



## Dissonance (Aug 23, 2012)

What the fuck did you say? Pick the place, yo. No cops, just us.


----------



## LandOfTheSnakes (Sep 7, 2013)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


Incredible! People talking about their problems trying to get laid! How ridiculous!


----------



## infjhere (Mar 8, 2016)

Men need to be men. No coddling, no safe zone rooms to run to and cry in a pillow. No Talk shows. If you have a problem talk to another responsible male who won't lead you in a wrong direction. Be a wise man and not a wise guy.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

cybersloth81 said:


> As per stated by Roosh.
> 
> Neomasculinity combines traditional beliefs, masculinity, and animal biology into one ideological system. It aims to aid men living in Westernized nations that lack qualities such as classical virtue, masculinity in males, femininity in females, and objectivity, especially concerning beauty ideals and human behavior. It also serves as an antidote for males who are being programmed to accept Western degeneracy, mindless consumerism, and immoral state authority. The purpose of this article is to list and describe the principal doctrines blah blah blah JESUS FUCKING CHRIST OH MY GOD THIS IS A SNOOZEFEST.


Wasn't that dude found in his mother's basement or something?

Daryush 'Roosh' Valizadeh at center of international 'pro-rape' storm pictured | Daily Mail Online


----------



## piano (May 21, 2015)

Sara Torailles said:


> Wasn't that dude found in his mother's basement or something?
> 
> Daryush 'Roosh' Valizadeh at center of international 'pro-rape' storm pictured | Daily Mail Online


please trust me when i say you do not want to open that can of worms.


----------



## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

carpe omnia said:


> hahaha everyone's all mad and shit ready to start ww3 men vs women and then there's <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->
> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=303858" target="_blank">Catwalk</a></i></span>
> <!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention --> and <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->
> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=59689" target="_blank">FearAndTrembling</a></i></span>
> <!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention --> in the background having a youtube rap battle


It takes a *Real Man*™ to derail a thread + disregard the pressure / heat of moment (via) flying insult(s) to his Real Manness™.

Here's a_ nice tune;_ ♪ ♫ ♬


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

carpe omnia said:


> please trust me when i say you do not want to open that can of worms.


----------



## piano (May 21, 2015)

Catwalk said:


> It takes a *Real Man*™ to derail a thread + disregard the pressure / heat of moment (via) flying insult(s) to his Real Manness™.
> 
> Here's a_ nice tune;_ ♪ ♫ ♬


sweet. here is a tune that i think is nice.


----------



## mhysa (Nov 27, 2014)

Wellsy said:


> Fold... plastic bags... closed!?
> 
> When you say plastic bag, this comes to mind:
> 
> ...


no i mean like, the bags that hold cereal inside the cardboard boxes they come in and chip bags like these:










that might not even be plastic but that was the word that came to mind.

i understand it's hard to actually close those sometimes and you have to roll them really tightly and then prop them up against something to make it stay if you don't have special clips for them, and it's a pain in the ass, but it's worth it not to have to eat stale chips. mr. mhysa does this, every other man i've ever dated has done this, i don't _understand_.


----------



## AddictiveMuse (Nov 14, 2013)

Mr. Mhysa - that's pretty cute. 

Also I don't really have anything to add to this thread beyond thanking you all for the entertainment.


----------



## piano (May 21, 2015)

Sara Torailles said:


>


there's not a single post on this forum that has made me laugh as hard as this one.


----------



## AddictiveMuse (Nov 14, 2013)

Sara Torailles said:


> Wasn't that dude found in his mother's basement or something?
> 
> Daryush 'Roosh' Valizadeh at center of international 'pro-rape' storm pictured | Daily Mail Online


Roosh is a real man. Real man like woman. Real man touch woman. Woman fight off real man? But _all _women like real man! Real man don't care. Real man don't give a shit. Real man just take what it want. Real man don't care. Real man beat the shit out of it. Real man is a real man and real man don't give a fuck. 





* *




don't be like real man, real man's a dick. Nobody likes real man. Real man is lonely fuck


----------



## piano (May 21, 2015)

AddictiveMuse said:


> Roosh is a real man. Real man like woman. Real man touch woman. Woman fight off real man? But _all _women like real man! Real man don't care. Real man don't give a shit. Real man just take what it want. Real man don't care. Real man beat the shit out of it. Real man is a real man and real man don't give a fuck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah and to make matters worse real man lives in his mother's basement.


----------



## AddictiveMuse (Nov 14, 2013)

carpe omnia said:


> yeah and to make matters worse real man lives in his mother's basement.


hehe real man is slightly ironic. 

Real man says rape woman is fine. 

Real man don't need woman! Real man has right hand! Real man has maaanlinessssss. 

Real man likes sammich. 

Real man wants sammich. 

Real man says he no be real man for second and make woman make him sammich and assert his maaanlinessssss

Real man relies on woman. 

Perhaps he's just super sexually frustrated. Woman no want to fuck real man, thus women = stupid and ignorant, thus their opinion and their consent doesn't matter


----------



## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


wait, so men are a bunch of whiners? that's why they're not men?

well, I'd say that's true, but there's a hell of a lot more than that. skinny jean wearin' pacifist hipsters with high levels of estrogen is what I was thinkin'.


----------



## piano (May 21, 2015)

AddictiveMuse said:


> hehe real man is slightly ironic.
> 
> Real man says rape woman is fine.
> 
> ...


i'm just playin. i think the real problem with his degrading, attention-seeking "troll" philosophies isn't that he himself believed them but that when he threw them out into cyber world, weak and impressionable men clung onto them in the dire hopes of garnering the same level of success with women as he (presumably) does. now i don't know if he holds those beliefs himself but if he does then one day he will cross paths with a wonderful woman who will make him question everything he once thought to be true about women.

nothing tames a man like a woman's embrace.


----------



## Wolf (Mar 20, 2016)

AddictiveMuse said:


> hehe real man is slightly ironic.
> 
> Real man says rape woman is fine.
> 
> ...


What if he uses his left?

Who doesn't like sammich?


----------



## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

mhysa said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ahh, we got an easy fix for that in my household, we have plastic clips to seal bags of chips.
SO just bunch up the top of the bag and *clip*. Used to use rubber bands instead.


----------



## AddictiveMuse (Nov 14, 2013)

carpe omnia said:


> i'm just playin. i think the real problem with his degrading, attention-seeking "troll" philosophies isn't that he himself believed them but that when he threw them out into cyber world, weak and impressionable men clung onto them in the dire hopes of garnering the same level success with women as he (presumably) does. now i don't know if he holds those beliefs himself but if he does then one day he will cross paths with a wonderful woman who will make him question everything he once thought to be true about women.
> 
> nothing tames a man like a woman's embrace.


I shudder at the thought of men out there actually agreeing with what he says. I know that there are people are out there who do think like that but to see actual evidence of it is disheartening. I don't want to read into this Roosh guy, I did so once and I don't feel like going on a tirade today. I don't want this guy to come across a woman one day who changes his life around. Even if he doesn't believe what he's saying he's not deserving of it. Even if he does change. It's cowardly and ignorant of him to have created what he has.

I realise that's pretty harsh of me but he should know better.


----------



## AddictiveMuse (Nov 14, 2013)

A Lone Wolf said:


> What if he uses his left?
> 
> Who doesn't like sammich?


I love a good sammich and I make a good sammich, but that's besides the point. 
Those are all relevant questions and I don't really know how to answer such relevant questions.


----------



## piano (May 21, 2015)

AddictiveMuse said:


> I shudder at the thought of men out there actually agreeing with what he says. I know that there are people are out there who do think like that but to see actual evidence of it is disheartening. I don't want to read into this Roosh guy, I did so once and I don't feel like going on a tirade today. I don't want this guy to come across a woman one day who changes his life around. Even if he doesn't believe what he's saying he's not deserving of it. Even if he does change. It's cowardly and ignorant of him to have created what he has.


yeah i agree but it is the only way to get him to see what he's spent his whole life overlooking.


----------



## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

what is a ''real man''?
are there pseudo/faux men out there?
[checks pants] yup i got's me a outtie , and it's a floppin around
i did try to get in touch with my feminine side once but my dick kept getting in the way:laughing:


----------



## infjhere (Mar 8, 2016)

Kore said:


> Women need to be women. No coddling, no safe zone rooms to run to and cry in a pillow. No Talk shows. If you have a problem talk to another responsible female who won't lead you in a wrong direction. Be a wise woman, not a wise chick? I dunno, it almost worked.
> 
> Adults need to be adults. No coddling, no safe zone rooms to run to and cry in a pillow. No Talk shows. If you have a problem talk to another responsible adult who won't lead you in a wrong direction. Be a wise adult, not a wise ass. This one worked better.
> 
> ...


I am in no way minimizing the struggles we go through. Sometimes life stinks and it isn't fair. However, there are people who have it much worse than we do especially in impoverished countries. Yes, we should forgive others the way we expect to be forgiven. Yes, men go through a lot, but we need to be careful in whom we confide in and not air our dirty laundry. We all get treated unfairly at times, but don't be a cry baby. Suck it up, be a man, and don't whine when you can't have your way all the time.


----------



## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Okay I get it, this is commenting on free speech, and "feminism" yes, okay whatever.

I still think it's okay to have or to express a conflicting opinion, as it's not actually trying to necessarily out right in force it.

Otherwise, you reply to an opinion or view you do not agree with by not actually answering or disagreeing at all? well, isn't that the non-existence or a threat to free-speech as well?

Sorry, but I still see the opposite of it happening in reverse just the same, and just as often. Very traditional old fashioned views, being propagated as the "truth" or the only "right" answer, or else...or else! threat to free speech! *GASP*

Anyway, I think the solution to some degree would merely to respectfully agree to disagree, but, whatever.


----------



## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

I'm really attracted to strong, independent, post-feminist women; but unfortunately, every time I ask one out they tell me they're a "lesbian"

Damn I hate feminism.


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Seems to me you messed up all the embeds.

Plus it was a wall of text I'd expect from an INFP released from a desert island after 10 years and finally making first human contact again.


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Entropic said:


> @_cybersloth81_
> 
> That entire article just reads as being paranoid because of the crisis of masculinity and it seems to be built on an essentialist idea of what masculinity is (suffice to say, it reeks of biologism to support its position). The paranoid tone and how it tries to hype up these issues as some moralistic or otherwise downfall suggests it all.
> 
> I also think it is sexist at its places and to both genders.


Well, yes, if it describes the roles of the sexes, it is going to be concerned with sex.<p>
(shrugs).


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Swede said:


> Yeah, I miss the golden days of the real Gold Diggers. Sadly, the Gold Digger is an out-dying minority in today's femninazied world. Can't buy me love, no moe...
> 
> * goes away to cry in a corner *


Or, to quote Weird Al Yankovic: "Well, if money can't buy happiness, I guess I'll have to rent it."


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

johnnyyukon said:


> ha, yes. she was young and thought she was hot shit. ya gotta bring these bratty bitches, I mean LADIES, down a notch, ya know??
> 
> It is rather curious, how odd women can be, I've been an asshole on purpose and an asshole on accident, once I thought i was sending a text to my boy something like, "Damn, bitch said she was goin to sleep!" but sent it to said "bitch" ha, and she responded with just "come over" and we like totally did it.
> 
> ...


This sounds like it overlaps considerable with some of Roosh V's philosophy.


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> This is all a bunch of nonsense. Did you know that the mating ritual of giraffes involves the male drinking urine from the female to see if she is any good? Much more effective than complaining about how people use proper grammar in text messages.


[Salacious pun deleted in the interests of decorum.]


----------



## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

g_w said:


> This sounds like it overlaps considerable with some of Roosh V's philosophy.


uhh


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Sara Torailles said:


> To be honest, it comes off as:
> 
> "Gender roles are fact because all men are Real Men™ and all women are Real Women™."
> 
> "We must enforce gender roles because men are supposed to be Real Men™ and women are supposed to be Real Women™. Anyone who disagrees is a beta pussy or an entitled Western woman. Feminism is a cancer."


I dont look at it as an ideal. I take his teachings and compare it to what happens in reality and see if there is any correlation.

Its like feminism, thats just an ideal. It claims a lot of things, like unattractive women are attractive, yet I dont see any men attracted to them. Therefore it is just a false ideal not reality. That is just one example. I can provide others.


----------



## Loaf (Mar 27, 2014)

Gilly said:


> @cybersloth81 Please learn to
> * *
> 
> 
> ...



* *






Indeed, it was rather tl:dr lol


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

cybersloth81 said:


> I dont look at it as an ideal. I take his teachings and compare it to what happens in reality and see if there is any correlation.


I mean, the way it sounds to me is like he doesn't really talk to any women on a meaningful level. He just extrapolates based on how he has chased women as sexual objects for his entire life, and not really tried to converse with them or understand why women act in certain ways.



> Its like feminism, thats just an ideal. It claims a lot of things, like unattractive women are attractive, yet I dont see any men attracted to them. Therefore it is just a false ideal not reality. That is just one example. I can provide others.


Look at the browser history of literally any random person, and you'll see a wide variety of shit. It's not a false ideal, darling. People just don't admit that they want so desperately to fuck that overweight girl. They point and make fun of her with one hand and stroke their cocks with the other.


----------



## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Men aren't men anymore?

Maybe it's because we aren't allowed to be men without being told to check our privilege, called sexist for showing the slightest natural vibe of dominance, and told we aren't sensitive enough whilst at the same time told we're too sensitive.

P.S. I don't give a fuck about being a man, same as you shouldn't give a shit about being a lady.

Be yourself. I don't give a shit about how lady like you are.


----------



## avidity (Mar 26, 2014)

I'm intimidated by real men, though.

:/


----------



## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

Sara Torailles said:


> Look at the browser history of literally any random person, and you'll see a wide variety of shit. It's not a false ideal, darling. People just don't admit that they want so desperately to fuck that overweight girl. They point and make fun of her with one hand and stroke their cocks with the other.



hahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHA. 

I would never have sex with an ugly fat chick because they're all a bunch of rude, mean feminists who think they're _too good_ for almost every man.


----------



## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

avidity said:


> I'm intimidated by real men, though.
> 
> :/


Many western women seem to be


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

JTHearts said:


> hahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHA.
> 
> I would never have sex with an ugly fat chick because they're all a bunch of rude, mean feminists who think they're _too good_ for almost every man.


I mean, if men generally wanted to fuck me but didn't want to embarrass themselves by the sight of being seen with me like I've heard a lot of fat women say, then I'd hate them and think I was better than them, too.

So... Tell me what this is really about.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Many western women seem to be


Here we see a wild Western woman in its habitat... Drinking a milkshake from Arby's.

I'm currently imagining her putting that milkshake all over her naked body. I could never see that in real life. What a fucking tease. And she's a whore for putting that milkshake on her body and shaking her tits.

If I buy the milkshake, it should make me the ultimate gentleman and she should be entitled to strip naked for me and have sex with me. I'm SUCH a nice guy! But I bet she'll make me pay for the milkshake and fuck that ALPHA MALE because she is a whore.

Fuck western women. Feminism is a cancer. *A single tear rolls down the misogynist's cheek*


----------



## Crimson Ash (May 16, 2012)

avidity said:


> I'm intimidated by real men, though.
> 
> :/


By your own definition what do you mean by real men?


----------



## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Many western women seem to be


Perhaps you believe yourself to be a real man, hmm? You are incorrect, there are no real men. Genders are socially constructed. They are contrived, just like the presidency.


----------



## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Sara Torailles said:


> I mean, if men generally wanted to fuck me but didn't want to embarrass themselves by the sight of being seen with me like I've heard a lot of fat women say, then I'd hate them and think I was better than them, too.
> 
> So... Tell me what this is really about.


Why would one put their pride in front of their animal instincts?


----------



## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

Sara Torailles said:


> I mean, if men generally wanted to fuck me but didn't want to embarrass themselves by the sight of being seen with me like I've heard a lot of fat women say, then I'd hate them and think I was better than them, too.
> 
> So... Tell me what this is really about.


Well it's about fat ugly chicks thinking they're better than they really are


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Why would one put their pride in front of their animal instincts?


Because they're wimps.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

JTHearts said:


> Well it's about fat ugly chicks thinking they're better than they really are


So... Your problem is with women believing that they deserve dignified treatment even if they're fat? I mean, having sex with someone and then pretending like they don't exist isn't dignified in any way.

I mean, it's sort of like, basic respect?


----------



## avidity (Mar 26, 2014)

Crimson Ash said:


> By your own definition what do you mean by real men?


Mature, hot, sexy, wise, manly men with beards.


----------



## Shade (Oct 11, 2013)

avidity said:


> Mature, hot, sexy, wise, manly men with beards.


I'm a childish, cold, ugly, stupid, feminine man who couldn't grow a beard if my life depended on it.

Just wanted to share...


----------



## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Distry said:


> I'm a childish, cold, ugly, stupid, feminine man who couldn't grow a beard if my life depended on it.
> 
> Just wanted to share...


It's not all bad. Razers are expensive, and I hear that for men who don't like facial hair, upkeep is a real pain.


----------



## Shade (Oct 11, 2013)

Fumetsu said:


> It's not all bad. Razers are expensive, and I hear that for men who don't like facial hair, upkeep is a real pain.


It sure is.


----------



## avidity (Mar 26, 2014)

Distry said:


> I'm a childish, cold, ugly, stupid, feminine man who couldn't grow a beard if my life depended on it.
> 
> Just wanted to share...


I should have said humble, too. That counts for something


----------



## Macrosapien (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm a real man


----------



## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Sara Torailles said:


> Here we see a wild Western woman in its habitat... Drinking a milkshake from Arby's.
> 
> I'm currently imagining her putting that milkshake all over her naked body. I could never see that in real life. What a fucking tease. And she's a whore for putting that milkshake on her body and shaking her tits.
> 
> ...


"Not my monkey, not my circus"


----------



## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

Funny how this thread and the feminism thread are on the same page.

Feminism is what brought about this era of men not being "manly."

However, it also brought about the era of women gaining more power in society.

Unfortunately, societal image, like money, is distributed in relation to itself. Women and men cannot technically be equal while at 100%, nor can you and the person right next to you be equal. Have it be microscopic or on a macro size, there will be a different in at least perception. Men must go down in order for women to go up, and vise versa.

Equality is no different. For both to be at 50/50, that means one group must go from 70 to 50, and one group from 30 to 50. 

While this doesn't technically have to be true, when you incorporate human perception, it is how it works, and it is how ethnic and religious wars have always come about, and always will. #Humans. 

It comes with the territory, especially when concepts are linked together, as in male and female. 

Up to you to say if that's bad or good.


----------



## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


Men aren't men anymore? Maybe because women aren't women anymore? And who's fault is it that women aren't women anymore?


You girls complain that men should show their emotions more, and then when they do,..... you complain they aren't men anymore.


But you´re right, we should go back to the old ways. You girls stay at home to cook and take care of the kids and be completely financially dependent on your husbands....


----------



## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Antipode said:


> Funny how this thread and the feminism thread are on the same page.
> 
> Feminism is what brought about this era of men not being "manly."
> 
> ...


A lot of people say they want equality, but if things were to move in a 50/50 direction, you'd hear a lot of protests on both sides. Part of the equation is cultural, sure - we're dealing with very old and entrenched biases here, but I'd argue biology would also play a part. 

There's a reason males and females are different, so unless we move towards a one sex or sexless society, there's going to be some conflict of interest. I don't care what genitals a person has. I'd love it if gender roles disappeared. Unfortunately, that puts me in the minority. 

Even in countries like Scandinavia, things like stay at home parent show differences in how men and women perceive a mother or a father taking time off work.


----------



## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

WamphyriThrall said:


> A lot of people say they want equality, but if things were to move in a 50/50 direction, you'd hear a lot of protests on both sides. Part of the equation is cultural, sure - we're dealing with very old and entrenched biases here, but I'd argue biology would also play a part.
> 
> There's a reason males and females are different, so unless we move towards a one sex or sexless society, there's going to be some conflict of interest. I don't care what genitals a person has. I'd love it if gender roles disappeared. Unfortunately, that puts me in the minority.
> 
> Even in countries like Scandinavia, things like stay at home parent show differences in how men and women perceive a mother or a father taking time off work.


Well, that's true. That would be the only fix I could think of that would actually work.

If there aren't antipodal concepts in the first place, then one cannot be put down so one can rise in the first place.

Granted, I'm afraid that would never happen.


----------



## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

g_w said:


> Seems to me you messed up all the embeds.
> 
> Plus it was a wall of text I'd expect from an INFP released from a desert island after 10 years and finally making first human contact again.


Are you talking to me...?


----------



## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.


Can you be more specific?


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Meteoric Shadows said:


> Are you talking to me...?


I wasn't. In fact, IIRC, I was trying to reply to the OP.

Blame it on my Mac getting the "pinwheel" in the middle of the reply and having to reboot.


----------



## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

g_w said:


> I wasn't. In fact, IIRC, I was trying to reply to the OP.
> 
> Blame it on my Mac getting the "pinwheel" in the middle of the reply and having to reboot.


Wow, maybe you're not an asshole after all.

This, this may be the start of a beautiful friendship.


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Meteoric Shadows said:


> Wow, maybe you're not an asshole after all.
> 
> This, this may be the start of a beautiful friendship.


(nods)


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

WamphyriThrall said:


> "Not my monkey, not my circus"


A typical feminazi response. Why won't you validate my misogyny?!


----------



## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

Sara Torailles said:


> A typical feminazi response. Why won't you validate my misogyny?!


So what is it you want? You're honestly confusing me, it's like you people are complaining that men aren't "manly" enough, but if a man shows any sensitivity, compassion, or weakness, you people pounce on us. I'm convinced feminists are trying to get every man who doesn't meet their standards to kill themselves.


----------



## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

JTHearts said:


> So what is it you want? You're honestly confusing me, it's like you people are complaining that men aren't "manly" enough, but if a man shows any sensitivity, compassion, or weakness, you people pounce on us. I'm convinced feminists are trying to get every man who doesn't meet their standards to kill themselves.




Feminists have no idea what they want. They claim to want equality, but they have that and yet still complain.


As far as I can tell feminism is a platform from which rich, delusional woman complain about how horrible their upper middle class lives are, and demand that their paranoid delusions be taken seriously.

They'll say things like: "I'm afraid of walking alone at night."
Which basically translates into: "I want my normal human paranoia to be treated as absolute truth."


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Peter said:


> You girls complain that men should show their emotions more, and then when they do,..... you complain they aren't men anymore.


I think the mistake you're making is thinking that when one woman says something, they're speaking for all women.

Figure out what's important to you, and if one woman says it's not good enough, take it as a personal problem with their own perception, and also try and see where that perception came from.

Women are all different. Some are traditionalists and want a very specific kind of man, others are more lax and want men to explore a wider array of behaviors and attitudes.


----------



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Kerik_S said:


> I think the mistake you're making is thinking that when one woman says something, they're speaking for all women.
> 
> Figure out what's important to you, and if one woman says it's not good enough, take it as a personal problem with their own perception, and also try and see where that perception came from.
> 
> Women are all different. Some are traditionalists and want a very specific kind of man, others are more lax and want men to explore a wider array of behaviors and attitudes.


Women have one thing in common when it comes to men. Virtually all women sexually reject weakness. If a guy is weak, not necessarily in the physical sense, then he is sexually less valuable due to how we evolved as a species to value such a trait in males.

@Cheveyo


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

JTHearts said:


> So what is it you want? You're honestly confusing me, it's like you people are complaining that men aren't "manly" enough, but if a man shows any sensitivity, compassion, or weakness, you people pounce on us. I'm convinced feminists are trying to get every man who doesn't meet their standards to kill themselves.


You're on a whole other universe there, buddy.

I don't care whether or not men are manly. Men being emotional, sensitive, compassionate, or weak really doesn't trouble me. My issue was with you thinking fat women should consider themselves inferior.

The only comment I said that could be construed that way is "because they're wimps", and that was addressed to men who were ashamed of being seen with fat girls. I would say the same thing about a woman who was ashamed of being seen with a fat (or financially unwealthy) man.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Kerik_S said:


> I think the mistake you're making is thinking that when one woman says something, they're speaking for all women.
> 
> Figure out what's important to you, and if one woman says it's not good enough, take it as a personal problem with their own perception, and also try and see where that perception came from.
> 
> Women are all different. Some are traditionalists and want a very specific kind of man, others are more lax and want men to explore a wider array of behaviors and attitudes.


Yeah, and the women who want the traditional manly man simply _pretend_ they're speaking for all women. They desire the social prescription, and they've been deluded into thinking it's 100% natural.

I'm more of the philosophy... Do you, the person will come later.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

FreeBeer said:


> Women have one thing in common when it comes to men. Virtually all women sexually reject weakness. If a guy is weak, not necessarily in the physical sense, then he is sexually less valuable due to how we evolved as a species to value such a trait in males.


Evolutionary psychology seems to defy most everything I've seen in people. It seems like learned behavior to me.

What determines "weakness" other than subjective values, anyway?


----------



## orihara (Nov 23, 2014)

i can't believe men are just self hating women


----------



## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

orihara said:


> i can't believe men are just self hating women


You're a generation Z female.


----------



## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

orihara said:


> i can't believe men are just self hating women


....what? No, really what di you mean?


----------



## Maxxie (Nov 29, 2014)

Everyone made feminism too complicated. We are fucking human beings. Boys are boys. Girls are girls. We need both to survive. Fucking respect one another. It's basic fucking child's play. As for any of you meninists, think about this: If it wasn't for women being so mistreated, there wouldn't be such a big backlash (I'm speaking about the hard core feminists who just end up being sexist themselves). And for you anti-men people: If you weren't being so fucking annoying and petty, there'd be a lot more people accepting of the concept of TRUE feminism, which is equality among genders. People always end up taking something great and blowing it out of proportion.


----------



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Kerik_S said:


> Evolutionary psychology seems to defy most everything I've seen in people. It seems like learned behavior to me.
> 
> What determines "weakness" other than subjective values, anyway?


Even strong independent business women like my boss say "That guy was such a pansy, I won't hire him. *insert my name*, what did you notice about him?". My boss never hires a guy who shows lack of integrity, credibility or confidence. It took me a while to figure out that she finds such guys deplorable and unattractive. Virtually all my female colleagues say that they find unconfident men who don't really know what they want unattractive. They might value some guys for being good human beings as friends, but they don't find them attractive sexually.

This is the primary reason white knight feminists are seen as unattractive by the feminists themselves, same goes for the whiny MGTW guys who complain about being "nice guys".

What women love is confident intelligent guys, who know what they want and are not afraid of fighting for said thing. If the guy is fit and attractive to boot as well as tall with a V shaped back, all the better.

From what I have seen, millennial men are a far cry from this. Idk why tho, their fathers should have informed them about this when they hit puberty...


----------



## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Sara Torailles said:


> A typical feminazi response. Why won't you validate my misogyny?!


I just got called a feminzai on Facebook. I'm sure some folks would find that amusing (just a few days before, a friend blocked me after a debate on abortion).


----------



## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Cheveyo said:


> Feminists have no idea what they want. They claim to want equality, but they have that and yet still complain.


Many feminists know what they want and have ideas of how to achieve what they want. Perhaps you see incoherence in trying to boil down a decentralized movement that is diverse enough to hold many contradictory positions and views into a single series of points. That in being exposed to such a diverse range end up confused thinking well what is feminism? In which case it might help to be able to group different positions with different schools of thought within feminist theory and activism so thigns aren't being muddled under a broad label.
Haven't you made past posts been about discrimination against men before?
Just thinking that if we have gender equality then points about discrimination against men may be incoherent.
Though I'm wondering whether you think discrimination in either direction is some form of equality.

https://theconversation.com/explainer-feminism-27981


> _The second argument is this: given society is now equal, women and men are just expressing their natural desires and talents when men become CEOs, thoracic surgeons and politicians and women become childcare workers, nurses or full-time carers. Interestingly this argument is not used to explain male disadvantage. Boys are thought to lose out in schools because of prejudice in the “female-dominated” environment and not because of boys’ lack of interest in learning. Men lose out in divorce battles because of discriminatory legislation and judges, not because of men’s lack of participation in child-rearing. As a result, feminists are accused of crying “victim” where the men’s movement is not._


I don't remember your position on things in detail but thought this might be something interesting to consider in general.

Such a statement exists in a larger context of fear of sexual violence.
Impact of Harassment


> While sexually harassing behaviours are often viewed as being relatively benign, harmless, or even as affectionate or a joke, research suggests that these experiences can have a profoundly negative effect on victims. For example, Macmillan and colleagues (2000) *found that street harassment impacted on participants' perceptions of safety "while walking alone at night, using public transportation, walking alone in a parking garage, and while home alone at night" (p. 319). These negative impacts were significant enough for the authors to suggest that "stranger harassment is a key determinant of perceptions of safety among women" (p. 319)*, although harassment from known perpetrators was not found to have the same impact on perceptions of safety in this instance. For participants in Fairchild and Rudman's (2008) study, experiencing sexual harassment from strangers was "related to fear of rape, and reliably related to perceived risk of rape" (p. 348).


Not sure how you can characterize a "I feel..." sort of statement as delusional, delusional about what? How they feel? You don't make explicit the point that you likely have, which may be denial of harassment in prevalence or severity, which then has one able to belive that feeling unsafe in this hypotehtical is an unwarranted concern which is to be dismissed as delusional.


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

FreeBeer said:


> Even strong independent business women ...


I'd say it's _often_ these women. I've been the most impatient with dudes when I've had stressful jobs. I wouldn't want to hire anyone though, man or woman, who didn't have a strong handshake, etc. I make sure I'm on point with all that, and dating is supposed to be about finding your equal.

It sucks, because women have begun taking on patriarchal roles, but it's much less common for men to get in touch with their inner matriarch. A lot of the "nice" dudes are finding achievement in things that don't translate to real life (well, at least not in a building a future for a family sense) and treating dating like a consumerist affair and a lot of women I know feel like they're doing literally everything while "getting to" compete for it harder or something too, lol. They're playing mentor and mother. Score.

Some of these dudes whine about wanting a relationship, but I suspect that a lot just want to be taken care of in more of a mothered way. Avoid loneliness. Play house. Or they're in search of some unconditional love that they aren't likely able or willing to reciprocate. So it's not about not being attracted to the indecisiveness so much as being unattracted to what it's likely stemming from I think. I've always seen relationships as a sort of entity separate from the individual people involved. Attraction takes different forms. 

_Genuine_ kindness in guys, more of a stereotypical protective "feminine" caring - I don't know any women who are against that  And it goes a long way in overlooking other stuff too. These dudes do tend to breed more jealousy and insecurity though in my experience, so I guess confidence is kinda seen as reassurance. 

I'd actually prefer someone with those qualities than someone with the bank account and ripped bod and what not honestly. I think I have some "masculine" qualities, so it would feel...balancing or something. Complimentary.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Wellsy said:


> Many feminists know what they want and have ideas of how to achieve what they want. Perhaps you see incoherence in trying to boil down a decentralized movement that is diverse enough to hold many contradictory positions and views into a single series of points. That in being exposed to such a diverse range end up confused thinking well what is feminism? In which case it might help to be able to group different positions with different schools of thought within feminist theory and activism so thigns aren't being muddled under a broad label.
> Haven't you made past posts been about discrimination against men before?
> Just thinking that if we have gender equality then points about discrimination against men may be incoherent.
> Though I'm wondering whether you think discrimination in either direction is some form of equality.



There will never be a Utopia. So long as we are capable of feeling or making mistakes, there can never be perfection.
So any attempt to reach Utopia is futile.


What we can reach is an equilibrium. Where both sexes are equally fucked.





> https://theconversation.com/explainer-feminism-27981
> 
> I don't remember your position on things in detail but thought this might be something interesting to consider in general.
> 
> ...


[/quote]


Feelings are delusional when you believe them to be absolute representations of reality. The human mind is the least trustworthy thing on the planet. It invents things all the time, just to make sense of the world around us. Feeling unsafe is irrelevant when the facts tell you differently.

You are less likely to be assaulted now than in any other time in history. And those chances are still dropping. A woman is even LESS likely to be raped by someone as she's walking around. She's more likely to be raped by someone she knows(friend or relative) than by a stranger out on the street. We do not live in the African congo where there are roving bands of men that are basically rape gangs.


What those women feel is a combination of simple human paranoia and fear, magnified by estrogen. It is an evolutionary trait, built into women to protect them against predators out in the wilds. Which is why many M2F trans tend to have an increase in those sorts of feelings when they're taking their hormones. It isn't because they're suddenly in greater danger.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Veggie said:


> I'd say it's _often_ these women. I've been the most impatient with dudes when I've had stressful jobs. I wouldn't want to hire anyone though, man or woman, who didn't have a strong handshake, etc. I make sure I'm on point with all that, and dating is supposed to be about finding your equal.
> 
> It sucks, because women have begun taking on patriarchal roles, but it's much less common for men to get in touch with their inner matriarch. A lot of the "nice" dudes are finding achievement in things that don't translate to real life (well, at least not in a building a future for a family sense) and treating dating like a consumerist affair and a lot of women I know feel like they're doing literally everything while "getting to" compete for it harder or something too, lol. They're playing mentor and mother. Score.
> 
> ...


I was actually somewhat surprised while browsing a radical feminist forum recently, since most of the stereotypical traits your average woman looks for in a man were the same thing the (heterosexual) members there said: wealth, stability, intelligence. That's great, though I'm not sure how many men would be put off by radical feminist beliefs (and keeping them to yourself, while playing another role doesn't seem so radical).

And a lot of people want relationships for the wrong reasons. Some think it will solve all of their problems, not realizing they'll have to pitch in and possibly change, adding a whole new hosts of problems! It's like a vicious, never-ending cycle. I feel like a walking cliche, saying that you'll never be happy with someone else unless you're happy with yourself.


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## piano (May 21, 2015)

real talk for a minute. what the hell is it with women being obsessed with wealth?


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

carpe, yor pussay is too dry to be riding my cock like this


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## piano (May 21, 2015)

my pussy closed up permanently the day i created this mother effin account


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

Veggie said:


> Women have no choice but to carry and have the child of their rapist if they're impregnated and either don't believe in or don't have access to an abortion. Men should have to do this too then by your logic. But they can't. So it is relevant actually. Obviously we're equal but different.


It's WRONG to have an abortion.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Veggie said:


> Women have no choice but to carry and have the child of their rapist if they're impregnated and either don't believe in or don't have access to an abortion. Men should have to do this too then by your logic. But they can't. So it is relevant actually. Obviously we're equal but different.


Again, that's something that the enemy forces would be doing, and I don't know if that's reason to not conscript women. They don't have to actually be on the battlefield to serve.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

JTHearts said:


> It's WRONG to have an abortion.


It's wrong to rape people and force them to be a pregnant prisoner of war. Stop derailing. It's a separate issue.

And aren't you the one who was asking if it was wrong to not tell someone you have herpes before you have sex with them? You don't exactly have the monopoly on morality here.


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## Kalix (Nov 9, 2015)

'fuckin women need to man the fuck up. 

on Tapatalk


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Kalix said:


> 'fuckin women need to man the fuck up.
> 
> on Tapatalk



.....the more ' fucks' you use the stronger you are, obviously.


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## Kalix (Nov 9, 2015)

Fumetsu said:


> .....the more ' fucks' you use the stronger you are, obviously.


'fuckin Refer to 'fuckin my previous 'fuckin post.

Fucks just 'fuckin make me sound 'fuckin angry as a clucken fuck.

(Note, the last post was satirical, this one too, but even I'd get irritated reading this one with nothing to refer it to)

on Tapatalk


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Kerik_S said:


> They don't have to actually be on the battlefield to serve.


I think that's more reasonable.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Real Man®, Real Woman™


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## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

Kerik_S said:


> It's wrong to rape people and force them to be a pregnant prisoner of war. Stop derailing. It's a separate issue.
> 
> And aren't you the one who was asking if it was wrong to not tell someone you have herpes before you have sex with them? You don't exactly have the monopoly on morality here.


Agree 100%


* *




@_JTHearts_ , you do understand that if you infect a woman with herpes you are endangering the health of her future children, right? 
Transfer of herpes from an infected woman to a newborn baby is an extremely serious issue. If you think that abortion is wrong, are you fine with a baby getting a chronic and highly painful disease just because you are selfish?

I have Hepes Simples 2 thanks to an ex who neglected to tell me about the risks of having unprotected sex with him. On the contrary, he was all for me going on the pill. Shows up that he was a narcissistic abuser, but that took a couple of years for me to figure out.

The fact that I have herpes was a source of concern for me when I was expecting my children - two decades later. Luckily, I had a C-section which reduces the chance for transfer. I obviously brought up my concerns with the medical staff well in advance and my doctor mentioned that he just had a case where a newborn got herpes in the eye from the mother during delivery. Just sit down and think on that for a while. Imagine how the baby must feel and how the mother must feel. 

In addition, women are often way worse off than men when it comes to the pure physical pain caused by herpes. That is another thing worth thinking about.

You are not legally obliged to inform a partner about being a herpes carrier (at least not in Sweden, trust me, I personally checked into that...), but morally you are most definitely 100% obligated.


/derail


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Kerik_S said:


> I think the mistake you're making is thinking that when one woman says something, they're speaking for all women.
> 
> Figure out what's important to you, and if one woman says it's not good enough, take it as a personal problem with their own perception, and also try and see where that perception came from.
> 
> Women are all different. Some are traditionalists and want a very specific kind of man, others are more lax and want men to explore a wider array of behaviors and attitudes.


I wasn't totally serious writing that post :smile:


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

JTHearts said:


> hahahahahahAHAHAHAHAHA.
> 
> I would never have sex with an ugly fat chick because they're all a bunch of rude, mean feminists who think they're _too good_ for almost every man.



This is an opinion. I've known a lot of fat women, who are extremely pleasant, and, good warm human beings, filled with love, and, not the pornographic kind you get on the internet, but, LOVE.


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## Tkae (Oct 15, 2009)

How about we not judge large groups of people based on inappropriate and inaccurate stereotypes? 

That'd be cool.


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## Dissonance (Aug 23, 2012)

Tkae said:


> How about we not judge large groups of people based on inappropriate and inaccurate stereotypes?
> 
> That'd be cool.


Yeah but it's not what a man would do.

Maybe we'll figure it out by page 60.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Veggie said:


> Because it's not all nurture and "gender" - which is why my arguments personally tend to be more biological.  And it's kind of scary how far we're veering from this.
> 
> I've been on the unpopular side in some transgender debates before, for instance, because I think that further discarding a biological component to what's associated with gender is the opposite direction we need to be traveling in for women's rights. Testosterone and estrogen play a part in shaping who we are. (Which is why trans men and women often undergo hormone therapy...if it didn't matter and wasn't relevant then why do it?) Increased testosterone makes a person more aggressive (not that it's, like, a requirement for this trait). (I believe in being respectful in regards to addressing the trans community, but I don't agree with arguments that the term trans should be thrown out the window altogether. Being told that I'm ignorant for that just makes me feel like, oh, another person born with a penis telling me what to think and do while unconcerned for my well being. How far we've come. Anyway, that's it's own debate).


Sex and gender identity or your biology has nothing to do with your rights or obligations (minus women's extra rights concerning pregnancy). Why would I care what hormones run through your system, who you are attracted to, whether you have a penis or a vagina and what gender you identify as, what the upbringing was etc. As far as the army or combat is concerned only ones capability counts. The army uses a wide range of personnel, not everyone has to be in combat. Since we all have the same rights, we all have the same obligations. How the army solves these issues as far as toilets and locker rooms go it's the army's business. Its not just women and men who need to serve, gays and transsexuals as well as long as they are fit for duty. A soldier is a soldier.

From a legal perspective, this is the proper attitude.* People are not equal, they do not find themselves in equal circumstances, but they have equal rights and responsibilities.
*


> Unique to people born with vaginas though is the possibility of pregnancy from rape. We're not all on the same page yet, or even close, in regards to abortion as an issue. And there's obviously additional complication there without the same access to proper medical attention.


I'm pro choice all the way. If my wife or my gf decides to terminate a pregnancy imo it is her right, as she is sovereign, however the relationship at that point from my perspective is terminated, because she killed my offspring. The only loophole would be health reasons, either her's or the babies.



> I mean _what_ are we defending that we hold dear? Is it family (community)? Then this gets complicated. Especially if we continue to lose even more of what's associated with femininity in both men and women. That's not a culture I want to risk my life for.


I'll risk my life for my family (my kids>wife>brother>parents), you, my nation and liberty. I won't risk my life for the bullshit the regressive leftists tout, nor for the far right religious crazies, not for any politician, definitely not for any lefty ideal or the corprotocracy and especially not for government or religion.* I as everyone else have things bigger then myself for which I'm willing to die.*

*A man is not an island you know.*



> Believing that you should be given equal opportunities to survive as an individual, especially since it's becoming more often necessity, is very different than believing that you should be required to self sacrifice for a "group" that's increasingly becoming self interested individuals. A lot of women are opting out of even having families now too.


And thus society crumbles. Guess why. We went against nature in rather stupid & illogical ways. Men have no idea how to be men, because they have no fathers to teach them and we have destroyed what it meant to be a proper man. We pushed women into roles and places they dislike being in, so they are miserable and both have become entitled self serving narcissists, who can't get over being a "good person", so we make ridiculous mistakes, such as defending a real rape culture & patriarchy making it's way into western civilization from the middle east, we fail at education and a bunch of other crap, because "gender roles are bad" and " we must not do and say X and Y, lest we offend ppl".

While we are at this, I will post a vid, showing why cultural libertarians like myself :/ are coming for the regressive left and we will wipe the floor with those ppl, we will CRUSH them:


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## Tucken (Dec 13, 2009)

The problem with this thread is that its creator isn't up to standing by her statement. 

"Men aren't men any more." Nothing wrong with this, its probably true.


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## Kalix (Nov 9, 2015)

Tucken said:


> The problem with this thread is that its creator isn't up to standing by her statement.
> 
> "Men aren't men any more." Nothing wrong with this, its probably true.


Hey, don't be dissin my gilly-dog. 

Leave it to someone who created the thread 'Women are not what they once were'. Too bad it didn't last half a day. 

http://personalitycafe.com/showthread.php?t=812922



Gilly said:


> The more places I go the more I notice this. They feel the need to complain about women instead of sucking it up.
> Come on men of the world. Grow a pair of tits.
> 
> Thanks kindly.
> ...


^ ^ ^ 
So much better than

"A woman has no concern being anything but a woman but somehow she thinks now that she's supposed to be a man, or worse yet, she believe there is no such thing as men. "


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

I like this thread.

It's like a broodmother to shitposts.


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

Complaining about the various traits or lack there of of the opposite sex has been common since forever. I'm basing that over abundance of information whether YT, comments section, forums image-boards or other social media just amplifies the complaints. Making people aware of just how prevalent it is. Drop your perceptions of what the opposite sex/gender has to be and look for what you like in people.

EDIT: The female version of this was shut down after three pages, this one is still going on since January. Why? I'm skimming, this thread is cringe, failed humor, failed cringey come ones, sexist and just derailed. Mods shut this down please.


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## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

Are you saying I need to replace my creative hobbies with sports, cars and beer? B..b..but who's gonna take care of my plants?


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Epherion said:


> Complaining about the various traits or lack there of of the opposite sex has been common since forever. I'm basing that over abundance of information whether YT, comments section, forums image-boards or other social media just amplifies the complaints. Making people aware of just how prevalent it is. Drop your perceptions of what the opposite sex/gender has to be and look for what you like in people.
> 
> EDIT: The female version of this was shut down after three pages, this one is still going on since January. Why? I'm skimming, this thread is cringe, failed humor, failed cringey come ones, sexist and just derailed. Mods shut this down please.


Lol.
" I demand that no one be allowed to express anything that I may percieve as criticism!" 

Case. And.Point.


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## orihara (Nov 23, 2014)

Fumetsu said:


> ....what? No, really what di you mean?


joke
jōk/
noun
noun: joke; plural noun: jokes


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