# Chastity until marriage



## Caelum (May 27, 2010)

I am not a virgin, but I have strong opinions now about sex before marriage that I didn't have in the past. As a result, I have been chaste and choose to remain chaste until marriage. Although no longer a norm in society, does anyone else choose to to be chaste until after getting married? If so, what are your reasons? Do you find it difficult to find other people with the same values of chastity? What problems do you face in being chaste, and/or what do you do to overcome those problems?


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## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

I have no reason to stay chaste until marriage. My best friend is a virgin and thinks she may end up being a virgin until she's married, but she says she's open to the idea of sex.
I think I know like one girl who thinks she needs to stay virginal until she gets married, and she grew up in an abusive Christian environment.


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## Miriamisfj (Apr 13, 2010)

I am not a virgin, but I think I will have much better defined boundaries in my next relationship. I was young and depressed and in need of something constructive when I first had sex. Had I known that it wouldn't fulfill anything at the time I would have stuck with the more solid boundaries. 

I was raised in a Christian family (But it was a personal choice whether we continued to live that way) and there is some guilt attached to sex outside of marriage. But I think it is more the issue of sex outside of love that predicts my future actions. If there is any niggling doubt that they are not a person I could live the rest of my life with, or if there is a major moral clash in personal beliefs I not sure I want a relationship at a deeper level unless we have had ALL the conversations you need to know some one fully.


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## NotedBook300 (Sep 24, 2011)

The thing about saving sex for marriage is it's not going to be very good sex.

I don't plan on getting married, but on the off-chance that it does, I want the consummation sex to be spectacular, and sex, like everything else, gets better with practice. I've never met anyone (myself included) who said that the sex they had when they lost their virginity was incredible. I'm sure there's exceptions, but as far as I'm aware, the first time is really awkward, and only consistent practice will make it better.

I'm not big into LTRs (as per my temperament), and I try to have sex as often as possible mostly because I like sex, but if I were to ever find myself in an LTR that may blossom into marriage, the consistent (and variety of) practice will keep my sexual technique at/above par for the consummation.


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## quadrivium (Nov 6, 2011)

That was my original plan. I didn't follow through with it. I am not a virgin. I can see from the other side (as someone who is getting married) the benefits of waiting, but I don't regret anything.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Caelum said:


> Although no longer a norm in society, does anyone else choose to to be chaste until after getting married?


I am married now, but was pretty much in the same situation as you while dating. I really wanted someone who was a possible life partner that would allow us to get to know one another without sex being the focus of the relationship. This was a challenge.



Caelum said:


> If so, what are your reasons?


At first I just wanted to finally do what I thought was right. Then I learned that waiting to have sex in a relationship was the smart order to things too. It protected me from a lot of dating predators. It was an amazingly efficient filter for compatible mates. It also saved me the time and heartache of getting involved with people that had no long term potential. It increased the amount of trust we were able to establish in each other. 

Since he was able to resist sleeping with me the "love of his life" he would most likely also be able to resist some random hot chic that later puts the moves on him. By proving his selfcontrol before marriage I knew he would not be a slave to his penis. I knew that he possessed the willpower to make a controlled choice about cheating. 

I also later realized that some people (my husband included) only treasure the things in life that they have to work hard for. Easy women/men are tossed aside because they are easy to replace or pick back up. If a partner has to work and build on his willpower to control sexual urges for a dating period then they feel a sense of accomplishment and pride in themselves and a sense of reward when they are the only ones who finally reached their prize. 

However, the biggest reward to waiting for me was the development of the important aspects of the relationship. Trust was a big one that I've already covered. In a way you are both going through the same challenges of denying yourself together. So it's like your first shared struggle. By having that under your belt you gain confidence in the relationship that will be needed later for hard times. 

It also gives you a chance to really get to know the person. When you are stuck just talking or hanging out instead of fucking and making out you are going to discover who this person is and it will be without the rose-colored glasses of afterglow.

These are the personal benefits I enjoyed from waiting. This will vary some from person to person. I'm sure there are other benefits that some will see that I never appreciated, so keep that in mind as well. These were just the things that I greatly valued.



Caelum said:


> Do you find it difficult to find other people with the same values of chastity?


Was it difficult? Yes. Was it as difficult as I thought it would be? Nope. My husband did not personally share my views on waiting. I just assumed this would be a deal breaker. However, he respected and possibly admired them enough to go with it. So what I'm getting at is even if there aren't that many people who share your views there are still people willing to work with them. This was something I did not expect. 

Also, when the people who won't give up sex are quickly weeded out it makes it extremely easy to find the small minority that's left. It makes finding lots of dates hard, but finding the right dates easy - if that makes sense.



Caelum said:


> What problems do you face in being chaste, and/or what do you do to overcome those problems?


The hardest part for me was having enough willpower to do it. I am a big fan of sex and most things sexual. It is also the primary way I like to show affection and love. So I struggled developing the other meaningful ways to express myself. How did I overcome it? One day at a time. Every time you tell yourself no, it gets easier. Every time you fail, it gets easier to fail. I kept that in mind and tried to focus on the other aspects of the relationship that I was helping to build: trust, love, emotional bonding, knowledge about their beliefs and world views, ect.

**PS no pregnancy scares or STDs was nice too. One less thing to stress when figuring out a relationship.

Also, waiting did not make the sex crap. It was and still is off the charts. Of course it's going to improve every time, but myself and other couples I know that waited don't have the issues of sex dying when the marriage starts for what that's worth.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Caelum said:


> I am not a virgin, but I have strong opinions now about sex before marriage that I didn't have in the past. As a result, I have been chaste and choose to remain chaste until marriage. Although no longer a norm in society, does anyone else choose to to be chaste until after getting married? If so, what are your reasons? Do you find it difficult to find other people with the same values of chastity? What problems do you face in being chaste, and/or what do you do to overcome those problems?


I respect your opinion, but I refuse to remain chaste until marriage. I need to be able to experiment with several women and experience new things in order to find out what I like. Plus, I have to be able to test drive a car before I buy it. When you are marrying someone it's like you have drive that same car forever. Now if I'm gonna drive only one car for the rest of my life, I need to be able to make sure that I like that car more than any other car out there. The only way to do that IMO is to test drive many other cars to get a feel for what I like.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

The Great One said:


> I respect your opinion, but I refuse to remain chaste until marriage. I need to be able to experiment with several women and experience new things in order to find out what I like. Plus, I have to be able to test drive a car before I buy it. When you are marrying someone it's like you have drive that same car forever. Now if I'm gonna drive only one car for the rest of my life, I need to be able to make sure that I like that car more than any other car out there. The only way to do that IMO is to test drive many other cars to get a feel for what I like.


One could always argue that in doing this you develop a desire for all the best parts of all the cars out there. Parts that could never structurally be included in just one car. This could leave you unsatisfied with any car in the end.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

kristle said:


> One could always argue that in doing this you develop a desire for all the best parts of all the cars out there. Parts that could never structurally be included in just one car. This could leave you unsatisfied with any car in the end.


True. But what I would most likely do is to find a car with the vast majority of the parts that I am looking for. I mean, if you don't shop around, then how do you even know what parts you like?

EDIT: ANALOGY BATTLE! God, I love these! These are amazing!


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Being my ex was a virgin before I met her, and upon us having sex for the first time, once she heard from my lips that I had sex with someone previously to ever meeting her, (not lying that I was a virgin or anything prior; she just never asked) then came a guilt streak of fucked up comments that till this day don't sit well with me. Such as I bet you liked fucking her in comparison to me and you just fantasize about it all the time don't you? etc. (This was during us making love once) 

If a girl is a virgin I will dump her right there and then move on to someone who has more experience so they wont place importance on sex as if it's a moral code and dogma to follow that will lead to complete care and wanting from another just because we have sex after saying the words "I do" with a contract to sign by the state.

Virgins or those who waited until marriage to have sex are treating sex with so much importance and sanctity that it becomes a judgmental factor to derive high status from and impose upon others as if they are not only better than everyone else, but that they think ill of those who don't wait or have had sex before.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

The Great One said:


> True. But what I would most likely do is to find a car with the vast majority of the parts that I am looking for. I mean, if you don't shop around, then how do you even know what parts you like?
> 
> EDIT: ANALOGY BATTLE! God, I love these! These are amazing!


You could always just ask the dealer what's in the car. It doesn't take driving it to find out. Also, the biggest thrill isn't the test drive it's when you get to drive it off the lot as your very own.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Being my ex was a virgin before I met her, and upon us having sex for the first time, once she heard from my lips that I had sex with someone previously to ever meeting her, (not lying that I was a virgin or anything prior; she just never asked) then came a guilt streak of fucked up comments that till this day don't sit well with me. Such as I bet you liked fucking her in comparison to me and you just fantasize about it all the time don't you? etc. (This was during us making love once)


From out here, that seems to be less about her being a virgin and more about her being emotionally screwed up somehow.

Judging all other virgins by your ex isn't really fair to the virgins, some of whom might have other motivations to making the choice they've have.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

kristle said:


> Also, when the people who won't give up sex are quickly weeded out it makes it extremely easy to find the small minority that's left. It makes finding lots of dates hard, but finding the right dates easy - if that makes sense.


 This is nice, till for the people I've met, the person actually has a stigma associated with sex that caused them to wait in the first place and ends up not even having it even once a month with a person they just married because they have no form of intimacy to draw from, they just repressed it their whole lives. That right there is hell. 

It is great that you were lucky though.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> From out here, that seems to be less about her being a virgin and more about her being emotionally screwed up somehow.
> 
> Judging all other virgins by your ex isn't really fair to the virgins, some of whom might have other motivations to making the choice they've have.


 I get what you're saying, and it is true that not all virgins are like my ex, I'll just say its shitty to feel that pressure knowing I will take something important away from someone with or without the person being a virgin, such as if the person values sex in the sanctimonious sense rather than the act of doing it and the therapeutic nature of sex which is why I have sex in the first place. It's my preference and outlook. The things I like to work toward are compatibility, moving in together and being completely coherent with each others emotions; not if I can finally stick my dick in a warm place.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

kristle said:


> You could always just ask the dealer what's in the car. It doesn't take driving it to find out. Also, the biggest thrill isn't the test drive it's when you get to drive it off the lot as your very own.


 Hopefully the dealer isn't lying and when driving off the lot, the wheels don't fall off.  Hope is an amazing drug by the way.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> From out here, that seems to be less about her being a virgin and more about her being emotionally screwed up somehow.


 In turn making her want to be a virgin in the first place. I have yet and I know they are out there, to meet one that hasn't had this shitty stigma associated with it.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> This is nice, till for the people I've met, the person actually has a stigma associated with sex that caused them to wait in the first place and ends up not even having it even once a month with a person they just married because they have no form of intimacy to draw from, they just repressed it their whole lives. That right there is hell.
> 
> It is great that you were lucky though.


It's not luck; it's research. Dating is like researching the person you're with. I didn't get lucky. I talked to my husband all the time about what his thoughts on sex were. We may not have been fucking, but there is still sexual tension that can be judged. If that tension isn't there then of course you're not going to have much sex once you start. A lot of aspects of great sex are in the mind. You can talk about what's in the mind and discover if you're on the same page.

I always felt like the problem was individuals assuming things instead of finding them out for sure. You can't assume your partner will want to have tons of sex if you don't talk about it and get an idea of what they think about all things sexual.

If someone has a stigma about sex in general then you will get that message loud and clear when you talk to them about it. For me, my husband knew beforehand that I felt sex wasn't bad, but that sex in a marriage was best. We talked beforehand about what positions we were open to and what types of things turned us on (along with what didn't).

If you can't have these conversations ahead of time I wouldn't expect things to go that great. A partner should be healthy enough in their sexual views to talk about it to someone they are considering as future marriage material. If they can't - it's a good sign you'll be warming your own bed forever more.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Hopefully the dealer isn't lying and when driving off the lot, the wheels don't fall off.  Hope is an amazing drug by the way.


If you can't trust the dealer, you shouldn't be buying from them.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

kristle said:


> It's not luck; it's research. Dating is like researching the person you're with. I didn't get lucky. I talked to my husband all the time about what his thoughts on sex were. We may not have been fucking, but there is still sexual tension that can be judged. If that tension isn't there then of course you're not going to have much sex once you start. A lot of aspects of great sex are in the mind. You can talk about what's in the mind and discover if you're on the same page.


 So true story. One girl I dated we had that tension, a lot of it in fact. I waited just to see how far it could go. Upon her initiating having sex, it was discovered that I was too well endowed for her and she ended up hurting from the sex. We couldn't go on right then and there. Had I married her, oh the shit I would be in. She's a doctor by the way and we are completely compatible in every other sense. I could of seen myself marrying her in fact. Live and learn, couldn't figure that shit out from just "talking" about it.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

kristle said:


> If you can't trust the dealer, you shouldn't be buying from them.


 How can you stop trusting someone unless they give you a reason not to? By then it's usually too late. The lease is signed and you sir are stuck. His references all checked up, he had testimonies from friends and family, he said you had great credit to go ahead. Often you could of not known any better one way or the other.

If that were the case, there wouldn't be as many divorces and breakups as there are.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

kristle said:


> It's not luck; it's research. Dating is like researching the person you're with. I didn't get lucky. I talked to my husband all the time about what his thoughts on sex were. We may not have been fucking, but there is still sexual tension that can be judged. If that tension isn't there then of course you're not going to have much sex once you start. A lot of aspects of great sex are in the mind. You can talk about what's in the mind and discover if you're on the same page.
> 
> I always felt like the problem was individuals assuming things instead of finding them out for sure. You can't assume your partner will want to have tons of sex if you don't talk about it and get an idea of what they think about all things sexual.
> 
> ...


 I wish people didn't lie about abstract thought, I really do.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> So true story. One girl I dated we had that tension, a lot of it in fact. I waited just to see how far it could go. Upon her initiating having sex, it was discovered that I was too well endowed for her and she ended up hurting from the sex. We couldn't go on right then and there. Had I married her, oh the shit I would be in. She's a doctor by the way and we are completely compatible in every other sense. I could of seen myself marrying her in fact. Live and learn, couldn't figure that shit out from just "talking" about it.


You can't talk about the size of your penis beforehand? She couldn't evaluate the size of your pants bulge? I mean as a doctor I would assume she already knows that with time and practice things can stretch to a lovely, happy medium for both of you. It's like doing the splits. You may not be able to right away, but with work it's possible for anyone. For the "love of my life" I would work on it. This is not a deal breaker. Unless, of course, you're looking for quick, short-term, blow your mind sex instead of a long-term investment that you don't mind working for. Then I totally get it.



Thomas D M Thompson said:


> How can you stop trusting someone unless they give you a reason not to? By then it's usually too late. The lease is signed and you sir are stuck. His references all checked up, he had testimonies from friends and family, he said you had great credit to go ahead. Often you could of not known any better one way or the other.


If you end up marrying someone who you can't even trust to be honest about their sexual views then you didn't do your dating homework.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

kristle said:


> You can't talk about the size of your penis beforehand? She couldn't evaluate the size of your pants bulge? I mean as a doctor I would assume she already knows that with time and practice things can stretch to a lovely, happy medium for both of you. It's like doing the splits. You may not be able to right away, but with work it's possible for anyone. For the "love of my life" I would work on it. This is not a deal breaker. Unless, of course, you're looking for quick, short-term, blow your mind sex instead of a long-term investment that you don't mind working for. Then I totally get it.


Yea see in medical school they talk about geometric composition associated with the penis and vagina and what will hurt or not as far as size compatibility goes. From the act of doing it, the pain was a stigma assocaited with having sex with me is what drew a line, I felt bad about hurting her, she didn't feel up to fucking again. I did talk about my size, she could see the size, she could of said we shouldnt go ahead. No one could of figured that out by talking about it and even just looking. What were we supposed to do? Take cat scan images and create geometric models and skin elasticity tests to find out if we could fuck? Really? Love how you used me in regards to the mind-blowing sex, love double standards.... Maybe she was? I don't know?



kristle said:


> If you end up marrying someone who you can't even trust to be honest about their sexual views then you didn't do your dating homework.


 lol, so if they lie, I'm supposed to just know right out even if everyone else says otherwise that it isn't true from them knowing the person? If you read the quote homework was done, in the metaphorical sense.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)




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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> So true story. One girl I dated we had that tension, a lot of it in fact. I waited just to see how far it could go. Upon her initiating having sex, it was discovered that I was too well endowed for her and she ended up hurting from the sex. We couldn't go on right then and there. Had I married her, oh the shit I would be in. She's a doctor by the way and we are completely compatible in every other sense. I could of seen myself marrying her in fact. Live and learn, couldn't figure that shit out from just "talking" about it.


I think that's one benefit of not being entirely chaste -- at least to the degree of being able to talk about sex and such, even if someone isn't going to do it before marriage. There shouldn't be a stigma or naivety about it, it's just part of life. Those kind of things need to be discovered and discussed.

I'm sorry things didn't work out over such a technicality (so to speak), when everything else seemed to be good.



> Yea see in medical school they talk about geometric composition associated with the penis and vagina and what will hurt or not as far as size compatibility goes. From the act of doing it, the pain was a stigma assocaited with having sex with me is what drew a line, I felt bad about hurting her, she didn't feel up to fucking again.


Yeah, what a lousy situation for both of you to find yourself in.

EDIT:


> I did talk about my size, she could see the size, she could of said we shouldnt go ahead. No one could of figured that out by talking about it and even just looking. What were we supposed to do? Take cat scan images and create geometric models and skin elasticity tests to find out if we could fuck?


Yup, it's similar to the idea that dissecting the cat with a scalpel doesn't really tell you much about what a cat actually is. I'm not sure how common the size issues are within a random sampling of couples, but that's definitely one situation where having sex is the best way to know what you're dealing with.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> I think that's one benefit of not being entirely chaste -- at least to the degree of being able to talk about sex and such, even if someone isn't going to do it before marriage. There shouldn't be a stigma or naivety about it, it's just part of life. Those kind of things need to be discovered and discussed.
> 
> I'm sorry things didn't work out over such a technicality (so to speak), when everything else seemed to be good.


 It should be made clear, she knew what size I was, she just didn't know how the parts would fit together. Even further, I have had comments associated with the size all my life. No ego to draw from when it just hurts the person I want to love


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Yea see in medical school they talk about geometric composition associated with the penis and vagina and what will hurt or not as far as size compatibility goes. From the act of doing it, the pain was a stigma assocaited with having sex with me is what drew a line, I felt bad about hurting her, she didn't feel up to fucking again. I did talk about my size, she could see the size, she could of said we shouldnt go ahead. No one could of figured that out by talking about it and even just looking. What were we supposed to do? Take cat scan images and create geometric models and skin elasticity tests to find out if we could fuck? Really? Love how you used me in regards to the mind-blowing sex, love double standards.... Maybe she was? I don't know?


Different positions accommodate for different fits. That's what makes some of them favorites vs. not. I'm sorry to hear that this relationship didn't pan out for you. However, I believe penis size and shape can be worked with and is not a deal breaker if everything else is good. Someone who is willing to put the emotional bond and the friendship bond ahead of the sexual one would have seen this. 

I'm sad for you that she didn't feel this way and work on the psychological association of pain and sex with you. It is possible that if you had more time together you would have worked out some positions that were not painful and built a positive association with sex and you.

My lengthy point here is people like to use the extreme scare tactic that if you don't sleep together you will will be stuck with someone who isn't sexually compatible. In reality, you shouldn't be going into marriage without open discussions of your sexual needs and desires. Even people who have sex before marriage can still get into trouble later if they haven't had open conversations about their sexual expectations. 

As far as physical compatibility goes I firmly believe two willing partners can overcome this. They must be willing to though. You can't have one person who values the relationship enough to work at finding the a perfect position and one who wants to leave if doggy-style isn't dreamy.

I apologize if using your personal example rubs you the wrong way. It's hard to avoid when you used it as a way to prove your point. I think I'll leave it alone now so as not to offend you further.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

kristle said:


> Different positions accommodate for different fits. That's what makes some of them favorites vs. not. I'm sorry to hear that this relationship didn't pan out for you. However, I believe penis size and shape can be worked with and is not a deal breaker if everything else is good. Someone who is willing to put the emotional bond and the friendship bond ahead of the sexual one would have seen this.
> 
> I'm sad for you that she didn't feel this way and work on the psychological association of pain and sex with you. It is possible that if you had more time together you would have worked out some positions that were not painful and built a positive association with sex and you.
> 
> ...


 Well, some more information that might explain better. We tried for about an hour before she called it quits and that goes for every position even one I had never heard/seen before, then again another day, and even after she tried to make things more comfortable with using toys, it just wasn't working. Again, from what has been stated before, you could not have known this any other way than just having sex to find out, I'm not the only one this has happened to. 

It is true however, that even with premarital sex, incompatibility can rear its ugly head but it's very strange what causes that (usually a medical incident that they didn't know about). We talked plenty about sexual compatibility and she really was in all regards of sex. We did try our hardest to make amends but to no avail. Some even have their vagina fused so closely together that it's so tight even a pencil can't fit through the opening and requires extreme measures to happen is what she told me. 

It's a modest belief you have, but it isn't really true for the start of a relationship or a marriage.


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## quadrivium (Nov 6, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> It's a modest belief you have, but it isn't really true for the start of a relationship or a marriage.


I'm just not sure why this belief is so offensive to you. Have you ever been married?


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

corgiflatmate said:


> I'm just not sure why this belief is so offensive to you. Have you ever been married?


 ... I said it was offensive? Engaged yes. I do have an issue with it if it's not imposed upon me, from an earlier post:

Being my ex was a virgin before I met her, and upon us having sex for the first time, once she heard from my lips that I had sex with someone previously to ever meeting her, (not lying that I was a virgin or anything prior; she just never asked) then came a guilt streak of fucked up comments that till this day don't sit well with me. Such as I bet you liked fucking her in comparison to me and you just fantasize about it all the time don't you? etc. (This was during us making love once)


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## quadrivium (Nov 6, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> ... I said it was offensive? Engaged yes. I do have an issue with it if it's not imposed upon me, from an earlier post:
> 
> Being my ex was a virgin before I met her, and upon us having sex for the first time, once she heard from my lips that I had sex with someone previously to ever meeting her, (not lying that I was a virgin or anything prior; she just never asked) then came a guilt streak of fucked up comments that till this day don't sit well with me. Such as I bet you liked fucking her in comparison to me and you just fantasize about it all the time don't you? etc. (This was during us making love once)


Well, that's perfectly fine, and it's your own choice. I can understand not wanting it imposed on you if that's not your belief system. But if it's theirs, therein lies the problem. Who should change in that situation? You, since you have more experience?

Yes I read that post. That's pretty gross. I have to agree with the others here though: she was obviously immature and it was one instance. When people found out I was a virgin, no one would touch me with a ten foot pole. I was so out of the loop regarding sex, I thought that would be a prize. 
Whether you're "chaste" (hate that word btw) or not, open communication is what will give you a successful sexual relationship.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

corgiflatmate said:


> open communication is what will give you a successful sexual relationship.


 As does sexual compatibility. This cannot always be discovered by communication alone.


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## quadrivium (Nov 6, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> As does sexual compatibility. This cannot always be discovered by communication alone.


Yes, but it can give you an idea. Wants and desires etc. You gave an example that you were compatible in every other way except for physically compatible; you were obviously sexually compatible, just couldn't physically express it. My apologies; that's a hell of a problem to have.


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## PurpleProse (Oct 2, 2011)

kudos to you, i think its great that ure sticking to ur guns.


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## suwi27 (Dec 31, 2011)

I'm "clean" till marriage because I don't want to:1-have to compare my wife to any prior sexual experiences 2-Don't want to feel "dirty"(I'm an ENFP!)..I take a broader look at sex before marriage and it's consequences.As an Idealist I can't just jump in bed with a women just to enjoy the moment.Some challenges...Some family members take chastity as a sign of weakness.Thanks to my well cultivated values ,I'm not bowing to the pressure.I don't need to prove a point to anyone in my life.I commend you highly for your knew stance! Don't you let anyone make you feel like you are missing out!


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## GoodOldDreamer (Sep 8, 2011)

I have no qualms about being chaste until marriage. Not that I'm gonna be getting married anytime soon. I haven't been in a romantic relationship in nearly a decade now, lol. But sex isn't a high priority for me in any event. Emotional intimacy is more important to me than physical, though that's nice too.

And while I'm no longer a virgin, I have had experience with previous SOs where a simple look from across the room is more erotic than anything bumping uglies could actually offer, so there's always that to consider. Just because a relationship isn't physically intimate doesn't mean it isn't intimate regardless. ;o)


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

> Being my ex was a virgin before I met her, and upon us having sex for the first time, once she heard from my lips that I had sex with someone previously to ever meeting her, (not lying that I was a virgin or anything prior; she just never asked) then came a guilt streak of fucked up comments that till this day don't sit well with me. Such as I bet you liked fucking her in comparison to me and you just fantasize about it all the time don't you? etc. (This was during us making love once)
> 
> If a girl is a virgin I will dump her right there and then move on to someone who has more experience so they wont place importance on sex as if it's a moral code and dogma to follow that will lead to complete care and wanting from another just because we have sex after saying the words "I do" with a contract to sign by the state.
> 
> Virgins or those who waited until marriage to have sex are treating sex with so much importance and sanctity that it becomes a judgmental factor to derive high status from and impose upon others as if they are not only better than everyone else, but that they think ill of those who don't wait or have had sex before.


I really don't have this problem with virgin women. The problem that I have with them is that most virgin women will fall in love with you after they have sex with you for the first time. I'm not really looking for a committed relationship right now, so this doesn't sit well with me.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

> You could always just ask the dealer what's in the car. It doesn't take driving it to find out. Also, the biggest thrill isn't the test drive it's when you get to drive it off the lot as your very own.


Yeah, or I could just rent a car and have just as much fun.


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## Cerebro (Jul 30, 2011)

I'm a Christian, but not so merely out of tradition, but genuine epiphanies and true faith. And I have learned from my pastor father that the Bible does preach chastity. My dad was not a virgin before he met my mother, but that was also before his faith became incredibly serious. I do not wish to remain pure until marriage out of fear of God or my parents.

I wish to remain pure out of principle, out of romanticism. When I first have sex with a woman, I want it to mean something. I want it to be someone I value enough to share such a profound, physical, spiritual experience with. And I figure if that woman is the one, then why not marry her? I want sex to be meaningful, not just a change to get off.

I am 18, and I have never masturbated, never watched/read porn of any kind. Just never really occurs to me. When I have some free time, my instinct is not to say "Hey, I'm going to go spank one off," rather "I think I'm going to play my bass," or "I'm going to read some personality psychology articles". I am not a very sexual person simply, but I am a romantic person. I only desire sex so much as it is a connection with another human being. And if I'm pretty skeptical, pretty distrusting, so if I trust that person to feel the same way, why not just put a ring on her finger?


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Cerebro said:


> I'm a Christian, but not so merely out of tradition, but genuine epiphanies and true faith. And I have learned from my pastor father that the Bible does preach chastity. My dad was not a virgin before he met my mother, but that was also before his faith became incredibly serious. I do not wish to remain pure until marriage out of fear of God or my parents.
> 
> I wish to remain pure out of principle, out of romanticism. When I first have sex with a woman, I want it to mean something. I want it to be someone I value enough to share such a profound, physical, spiritual experience with. And I figure if that woman is the one, then why not marry her? I want sex to be meaningful, not just a change to get off.
> 
> I am 18, and I have never masturbated, never watched/read porn of any kind. Just never really occurs to me. When I have some free time, my instinct is not to say "Hey, I'm going to go spank one off," rather "I think I'm going to play my bass," or "I'm going to read some personality psychology articles". I am not a very sexual person simply, but I am a romantic person. I only desire sex so much as it is a connection with another human being. And if I'm pretty skeptical, pretty distrusting, so if I trust that person to feel the same way, why not just put a ring on her finger?


WTF? You don't even beat off? How do you even sleep at night?


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

The Great One said:


> Yeah, or I could just rent a car and have just as much fun.


I'll give ya that. As long as you don't mind having your miles limited cuz you're looking for a short ride then renting is ideal. But if it turns into a long haul you've paid more in the end.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

kristle said:


> I'll give ya that. As long as you don't mind having your miles limited cuz you're looking for a short ride then renting is ideal. But if it turns into a long haul you've paid more in the end.


Yeah, but what if your car gets repoed?


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## Apostrophic Catastrophe (Dec 4, 2011)

Chastity is so selfish. Reasons don't matter. Bragging about keeping your body all to yourself is just rude. Golden rule, "do to others" and "sharing is caring". Do everyone a favor and have sex with them. Believe me, all that hocus pocus abstinence and purity talk will be forgotten REAL fast. Nike, "just do it".

No pressure. Just friction.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

The Great One said:


> Yeah, but what if your car gets repoed?


Hum ... you definitely have me out of my element here. I always pay my bills, to ensure repo's not an option. But then again, I enjoy driving and keeping what's mine. :tongue:


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

kristle said:


> Hum ... you definitely have me out of my element here. I always pay my bills, to ensure repo's not an option. But then again, I enjoy driving and keeping what's mine. :tongue:


Yeah but what if you get car-jacked by someone else?


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

The Great One said:


> Yeah but what if you get car-jacked by someone else?


Well that would be a sad day. However, I always lock my doors and keep my valuables out of site.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

kristle said:


> Well that would be a sad day. However, I always lock my doors and keep my valuables out of site.


But it could happen, and then you would be carless (heartbroken).


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

The Great One said:


> But it could happen, and then you would be carless (heartbroken).


Indeed, and if you drive in the wrong neighborhood with the wrong car you can count on it.


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## Cerebro (Jul 30, 2011)

The Great One said:


> WTF? You don't even beat off? How do you even sleep at night?


Honestly, I don't know why I wouldn't. You probably can't imagine not doing it, I can't imagine doing it. It just doesn't occur to me. It's never on my mind. I'm straight, I'm romantic, I love women, but masturbation has never really intrigued me at all. Besides, Leftie and I are saving ourselves for marriage.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Cerebro said:


> Honestly, I don't know why I wouldn't. You probably can't imagine not doing it, I can't imagine doing it. It just doesn't occur to me. It's never on my mind. I'm straight, I'm romantic, I love women, but masturbation has never really intrigued me at all. Besides, Leftie and I are saving ourselves for marriage.


 One hell of a gambler we have here folks, place your bets! Hope prostate cancer doesn't end you quick from keeping your juices inside of your body for too long, all the best.

Also just curious, how would you feel if you know you never had a son or a daughter because you never found the "right person" and will be dying in a few months? Would there be any regrets for being naive?


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

With that being said, masturbation is more of a health concern for me. My grandfather stopped having sex and probably masturbating for about 5 years and ended up with prostate cancer, had no prior problems to that. I do it for my health rather than to feel more "sanctified". Large scale studies show a 1/3rd decreased chance of getting prostate cancer with frequent masturbation 5 times a week, a few small scale studies with no controls to how much sexual activity the patients had or risky behavior are specious, so don't even bat an eye lash at those.

http://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/news/20090127/masturbation-and-prostate-cancer-risk

In this study it is still clear you need to masturbate in moderation, just depends on the frequency.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm

In this it shows the better proof of the large scale population and an actual physiological reason for it being the case. The former has no information at all to go on physiologically.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Look you dont need to hear other people's values on this.

What you need is to change your environment IMMEDIATELY if you plan on being able to avoid relapse and a whole schlew of defense mechanisms like justification.

Cool morals though  Don't be so hard on yourself, feel the love and you'll be alright


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## Apostrophic Catastrophe (Dec 4, 2011)

Very concerned Cerebro isn't masturbating.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Yeah man, just get a prostate check up if you haven't already, seriously need to think logically and pragmatically before you just don't do something that might actually kill you from not doing it.


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## Cerebro (Jul 30, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> One hell of a gambler we have here folks, place your bets! Hope prostate cancer doesn't end you quick from keeping your juices inside of your body for too long, all the best.
> 
> Also just curious, how would you feel if you know you never had a son or a daughter because you never found the "right person" and will be dying in a few months? Would there be any regrets for being naive?


I love how you call me naive, when your argument is juvenile at best. You can't make assumptions off the bat and expect me to answer your question. If I do answer your question, then you conclude that I'm naive. Honestly, I don't bash your beliefs on it, but you're got no right to be offensive just because we differ in beliefs. I was just sharing, not putting forth an argument against anyone. Leave it be. You find it funny, I find it funny. Thought the whole principle behind personality theory was to accept others and their differences.


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## Cerebro (Jul 30, 2011)

Apostrophic Catastrophe said:


> Very concerned Cerebro isn't masturbating.


No need to be concerned. I'll be fine. I am fine. It's just not of interest or concern.



Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Yeah man, just get a prostate check up if you haven't already, seriously need to think logically and pragmatically before you just don't do something that might actually kill you from not doing it.


I don't, actually. That's the whole reason we differ as Rationals and Idealists. You're concerned with logic, utility, pragmatism, I'm concerned with values and potentials. We differ, nothing wrong with that. I'll talk to my doctor, sure. But honestly, it's just never been on my mind. No reason to be concerned, just the way I am. I'll survive.

I do appreciate the concern from both of you, honestly, but it's fine. As long as you're not forcing ideas down my throats, I'll consider it, but it's not that I'm holding back. It's just never been on my mind, is all.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Cerebro said:


> Honestly, I don't know why I wouldn't. You probably can't imagine not doing it, I can't imagine doing it. It just doesn't occur to me. It's never on my mind. I'm straight, I'm romantic, I love women, but masturbation has never really intrigued me at all. Besides, Leftie and I are saving ourselves for marriage.


I'm straight, romantic, and love women too. However, I just have too high of a sex drive not to beat off. I honest to God couldn't even sleep at night if I didn't beat off because my penis would literally keep me up all night. To get a visual metaphor of what it looks like every day, afternoon, and night in my bedroom feast your eyes on Rocky Balboa....


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

This is very subjective and it has no "right" answer IMHO. In the interest of full disclosure, I think we, particularly in the West with our usually Judeo-Christian-based ethics, have a tendency to too readily moralize about sex or vice. Outside of certain relatively broad bounds that are overwhelmingly agreed upon by all people (no sex with kids or others incapable of reliably assessing risk and knowledgeably consenting, such as the mentally incapacitated; no sex through coercion; no sex without disclosure of harmful effects such as STD's or pregnancy (i.e. women entrapping men by getting pregnant); no sex outside of mutually agreed-upon boundaries, e.g. sado-masochism), sex is an amoral act that fulfils a pretty fundamental set of human needs and desires in a way that is most comparable to consuming food.

With that set of assumptions in mind, the criteria that seem the most applicable to deciding whether one should have sex - at all, not just before marriage - has to do with how much you subjectively desire it, how well you're assessing the risk of sex both overall and with a given partner, and how responsible you are in going about managing your sex life. The best analogy I can come up with is alcohol consumption. Both can be recreational and even healthy in moderation, but both can also be addicting and be (attempted to be) used for unhealthy purposes, such as to fill psychological or emotional voids. To be sure, they both often require trial and error to figure out what role they should play in one's life, and they can require some brutal honesty with oneself to make a good assessment. 

Each person has to make and live with their choices in this regard. I don't moralize, but I respect those who are honest with themselves and disciplined about it as defined by their circumstances. If you feel you are bettered by abstaining from sex, good for you for making your own decision about yourself and your situation. I have found that I strongly desire sex and always have, so I have needed to learn to moderate that though I simply can't (well, strongly don't want to) function without sex for an extended period of time. That carries with it some risk, but I accept that. 

Going with my alcohol analogy, however, I have a family history of alcoholism - on both sides of my family - and though not an alcoholic myself I see in myself a great taste for alchol, addictive tendencies in my personality overall, and the ease with which I can fall into easy, habitual use of alcohol which makes me less effective. Except for very rare occasions, I therefore abstain. It's a personal decision and I don't begrudge anyone who drinks, even drinks around me.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Cerebro said:


> I love how you call me naive, when your argument is juvenile at best. You can't make assumptions off the bat and expect me to answer your question. If I do answer your question, then you conclude that I'm naive. Honestly, I don't bash your beliefs on it, but you're got no right to be offensive just because we differ in beliefs. I was just sharing, not putting forth an argument against anyone. Leave it be. You find it funny, I find it funny. Thought the whole principle behind personality theory was to accept others and their differences.


 I said *would* there be any regrets for naivety, not that you are in the present or that you will be in the future; entirely hypothetical. Just if the following scenario happened that you could be considered naive thinking that the one would come along but did not due to unrealistic expectations when your whole intention was being with someone to start a family with, at least this is my understanding of what must be done upon marriage in most religious circles. 

I mean I'm not wanting to have a relationship with you so there is no real reason for me to put my beliefs on to you, just an inquisitive mind is all.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Cerebro said:


> No need to be concerned. I'll be fine. I am fine. It's just not of interest or concern.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 All the best, my grandfather passed away from prostate cancer due to the reason of not relieving himself, that's all we can come up with why he got it. If values are more important than well-being and health, that's fine, Jim Henson refused medical help when he was going to drop dead from bacterial infections due to religious values placed on medical care and blood transfusions.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> With that being said, masturbation is more of a health concern for me. My grandfather stopped having sex and probably masturbating for about 5 years and ended up with prostate cancer, had no prior problems to that. I do it for my health rather than to feel more "sanctified". Large scale studies show a 1/3rd decreased chance of getting prostate cancer with frequent masturbation 5 times a week, a few small scale studies with no controls to how much sexual activity the patients had or risky behavior are specious, so don't even bat an eye lash at those.
> 
> Masturbation and Prostate Cancer Risk
> 
> ...


Regular masturbation reduces cancer by 1/3? I guess that I never need to worry about that then, LMAO!


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## Apostrophic Catastrophe (Dec 4, 2011)

Cerebro said:


> No need to be concerned. I'll be fine. I am fine. It's just not of interest or concern.


If you haven't fapped yet, I'm still concerned. Not fapping can be an indicator of several problems, the least of which not being you don't have a penis, the greatest being you have one, but it serves only your waste elimination.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

I too am not a virgin. However, I feel like just because a person isnt a virigin doesnt mean they should sleep about. Im fine with other people doing it. I too think that society loves to over play this shit. There is a chunk of men and women sleeping around but not the majority. I plan to not "waste" my body by having a lot of casual sex. Personally I find it disgusting and low. I feel like Id lose value as a person if I decided to sleep around. Since I want to get married one day, I want my partner to feel like he got a good deal and doesnt have to worry about there being 20 other men out there that have seen me intimately. I would expect the same from him. My standards for dating have become more selective, though I currently have a bf, so in the future I dont see putting out being easy for me with a new person.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

If he feels anything other than unconditional love for you, then he won't be worth marriage. That's irregardless how many people you slept with or even if you killed anyone prior to meeting him.


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## La Li Lu Le Lo (Aug 15, 2011)

I only ever want to have sex with one person. I don't think that's too much to ask.


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## Cerebro (Jul 30, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> I said *would* there be any regrets for naivety, not that you are in the present or that you will be in the future; entirely hypothetical. Just if the following scenario happened that you could be considered naive thinking that the one would come along but did not due to unrealistic expectations when your whole intention was being with someone to start a family with, at least this is my understanding of what must be done upon marriage in most religious circles.
> 
> I mean I'm not wanting to have a relationship with you so there is no real reason for me to put my beliefs on to you, just an inquisitive mind is all.


I understand. Sorry I lost my cool. This was funny, but also eye-opening. Thank you, honestly.


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

I am a virgin and choose to be one until my wedding night. I see it as a gift for my future husband. I've waited for him out of respect and love for him. I have chosen to only date those who share this opinion. I want my first time to be his too. And I've actually found quite a few men who want to wait. I don't plan to impose these beliefs on others but I see sex as something that brings a husband and wife closer. I also don't want to get pregnant or STDs but those are just natural benefits to my decision.

In short, I see sex as something much more than just a night of fun for two people. I see it as something very special to bond people together and believe that bond should be only with one person.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I only intend to have sex with someone I plan to mate with for life, so I guess this thread applies to me, sort of.

I'm definitely not a virgin, but mostly because I have guessed wrong about the "for life" thing.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

KateMarie999 said:


> I am a virgin and choose to be one until my wedding night. I see it as a gift for my future husband. I've waited for him out of respect and love for him. I have chosen to only date those who share this opinion. I want my first time to be his too. And I've actually found quite a few men who want to wait. I don't plan to impose these beliefs on others but I see sex as something that brings a husband and wife closer. I also don't want to get pregnant or STDs but those are just natural benefits to my decision.
> 
> In short, I see sex as something much more than just a night of fun for two people. I see it as something very special to bond people together and believe that bond should be only with one person.


Why one person? May I ask that you elaborate?


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## Olena (Jan 2, 2011)

What's up with people getting all angry at other people's values and beliefs? That's pretty rude. To each his own. o.o

I'm a virgin, but I am not waiting for 'the one' or for marriage. I have no issues with those who do.

My mind is my sexual organ. If you cannot stimulate my mind, you cannot stimulate my body.

I have a high libido and I can take care of myself sexually just fine. I won't have sex with someone who is not my intellectual equal. My partner has to bring more to the table than just their cock or tongue.

That is my logic.

My sexual interests are also slightly alternative, which can be tricky when it comes to finding someone compatible.:dry:


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> All the best, my grandfather passed away from prostate cancer due to the reason of not relieving himself, that's all we can come up with why he got it. If values are more important than well-being and health, that's fine, Jim Henson refused medical help when he was going to drop dead from bacterial infections due to religious values placed on medical care and blood transfusions.


Exactly, the same thing could be said for scientologists that don't believe in many medical treatments. Just look at that bastard Tom Cruise making his (at that time) wife Katie Holmes go through the hell of what is child birth without medication. Religion is important, but physical health takes a higher priority.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

I thought getting married is when people stop having sex...

(I've always preferred to masturbate anyway. The thought of some guy sweating under/over me is quite off-putting - btw Stephen, I'm not talking about you.)


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Kayness said:


> I thought when people get married is when they stop having sex.


Lol, that is pretty much what I have heard too.


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## sprinkles (Feb 7, 2010)

Chaste until some sort of commitment. Don't like the whole idea of traditional marriage really.

Actually now though I'm chaste indefinitely since I chose monogamy for life with someone and that someone is no longer around and it would probably take something drastic to change my mind from that.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

Kayness said:


> I thought getting married is when people stop having sex...


This has not been my experience. Perhaps if people weren't so busy having sex when they're dating they would have spent more time finding out if that's the kind of person they would want to have sex with for the rest of their life. Thus avoiding this miserable sex drought I keep hearing about.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

kristle said:


> This has not been my experience. Perhaps if people weren't so busy having sex when they're dating they would have spent more time finding out if that's the kind of person they would want to have sex with for the rest of their life. Thus avoiding this miserable sex drought I keep hearing about.


 I wasn't being entirely serious. but ok.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Kayness said:


> I wasn't being entirely serious. but ok.


 Well why didn't you use the typeface Sarcasm?


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Why one person? May I ask that you elaborate?


Well the one person would be my future husband so I would only be having sex with him after he and I are married. I'm a Christian and have all the beliefs that come with it but that's very minor in my decision actually. I've seen the consequences, studied the STDs and believe that it really is better for me to wait. I don't want to end up pregnant and HIV positive just because I didn't want to wait for the right guy. I see it as a gift, like I said, and it's a gift I want to give the man I eventually marry because I respect him and know I will love him enough to make it worth it.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

KateMarie999 said:


> Well the one person would be my future husband so I would only be having sex with him after he and I are married. I'm a Christian and have all the beliefs that come with it but that's very minor in my decision actually. I've seen the consequences, studied the STDs and believe that it really is better for me to wait. I don't want to end up pregnant and HIV positive just because I didn't want to wait for the right guy. I see it as a gift, like I said, and it's a gift I want to give the man I eventually marry because I respect him and know I will love him enough to make it worth it.


 From my experience, it's nothing like that. The STDs can still be received even if you are married. No one is safe.


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> From my experience, it's nothing like that. The STDs can still be received even if you are married. No one is safe.


At least I could have us both tested before the wedding. And as long as we stay monogamous we won't be catching anything new. Or anything, if both of us pass the STD tests.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Paradox1987 said:


> Tbh, most of friends are deists or theists of some variety. They are none of them virgins... I just meant it in the sense that a civil marriage is a scrap of paper in my eyes. I'd get married, why not? But it'd not be for sex, I don't need paper for sex; just my anatomy and a willing partner .


I don't want to get married because it closes my options.


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

The Great One said:


> I don't want to get married because it closes my options.


Open marriage? In a different universe I may have married my last gf, and we ran a very successful and fulfilling open relationship... until she moved country to pursue career dreams that is...


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Paradox1987 said:


> Open marriage? In a different universe I may have married my last gf, and we ran a very successful and fulfilling open relationship... until she moved country to pursue career dreams that is...


Well that sucks. I'm sorry that happened.


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Hormones and their respective levels are permanent?
> Then please do educate if apparently you see my view on marriage as secular, I do listen you know. Yes they use cattle or other dowry, they do it also for pragmatic purposes such as tax breaks. Jewish religions have a different process for divorce as well that sucks more than the USA deal. Do you live in Zimbabwe? If so I apologize for my arrogance. Can you elaborate for what cultures you mean? If the marriage is done both in faith and in legally, that doesn't differentiate anything from the normal processes outcome. Which cultures don't have a word for divorce? They at least have one for separate.
> 
> If they care about an ambiguous number then they really shouldn't be material for marriage and the trials you face there. If that drives them around the bend, oh just they wait. ​


Well my point is that marriage isn't "just" a piece of paper and rings. In Germany, if you are Catholic there is a separate ceremony for the church and one legally. If you're married a Hindu, there's no word or concept for divorce. Separation is a tricky thing because separation can be short-term to resolve issues within a marriage and then there's permanent separation but that does not break the actual marriage. The Hmong have different views of marriage, along with the Khmer. Khmer people will have their own ceremony that takes place outside of legal ceremony but if the two people decide to no longer have a relationship, they are considered separated, not divorced.


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

The Great One said:


> Well that sucks. I'm sorry that happened.


Thanks . I don't blame her though, I'd have done the same in her shoes. I could have moved with her, but my own career dreams kept me squarely where I was. So I guess I'm just as much to "blame" as it were haha.



snapdragons said:


> Well my point is that marriage isn't "just" a piece of paper and rings. In Germany, if you are Catholic there is a separate ceremony for the church and one legally.* If you're married a Hindu, there's no word or concept for divorce.* Separation is a tricky thing because separation can be short-term to resolve issues within a marriage and then there's permanent separation but that does not break the actual marriage. The Hmong have different views of marriage, along with the Khmer. Khmer people will have their own ceremony that takes place outside of legal ceremony but if the two people decide to no longer have a relationship, they are considered separated, not divorced.


Indeed, I was born in an Hindu household, and symbolically, I could never have an Hindu marriage. 

a) I'm a very strong atheist, and not in the Sanatan Dharma sense of "naastik". But rather in the "no thanks" sense.

b) Just in case I'm wrong, I have no desire to symbolically bind myself to someone for 7 lifetimes. I am fallible, can make mistakes and the idea of being irrevocably bound for more than one lifetime makes me shudder somewhat.

Each to their own though...


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

snapdragons said:


> Well my point is that marriage isn't "just" a piece of paper and rings. In Germany, if you are Catholic there is a separate ceremony for the church and one legally. If you're married a Hindu, there's no word or concept for divorce. Separation is a tricky thing because separation can be short-term to resolve issues within a marriage and then there's permanent separation but that does not break the actual marriage. The Hmong have different views of marriage, along with the Khmer. Khmer people will have their own ceremony that takes place outside of legal ceremony but if the two people decide to no longer have a relationship, they are considered separated, not divorced.


Then it's just cattle, or it's just inheritance, or something given in return for a contract, can be just words spoken.


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## kristle (Oct 21, 2010)

The Great One said:


> I've heard that too. I guess I don't like monogamy because I enjoy solving the complicated puzzles of figuring how to make each woman cum. Seriously, I don't want to solve the same puzzles everyday.


Well Snapdragons kinda beat me to it, but I'd also like to point out that it's also a challenge to figure out how to please the same woman over and over again. You can't find only one thing that works and do that forever. You're forced to find a lot of different moves, and on top of that, you have to figure out which one will do it for that particular day's mood. You have to challenge yourself to continue becoming a better lover, because the first big discovery might have a limited amount of uses before it expires. The puzzle is never complete just because you succeeded once.

So basically you're left with solving 100 simple puzzles once or 1 puzzle that continuously gets harder as you go. I'm surprised you wouldn't find 100 easy puzzles unchallenging and boring. Perhaps someday you will.


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Then it's just cattle, or it's just inheritance, or something given in return for a contract, can be just words spoken.


The concept of marrying for "love" is actually incredibly novel, and I don't know if it's any more or less meritorious than the notion of marrying for convenience or mutual gain. But you're right, like most (please do not try and attempt to interpret this word as synonymous with "all") contracts, it's either "quid pro quo" or "follow the [insert currency] sign" to see why people are doing it...


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

> Thanks . I don't blame her though, I'd have done the same in her shoes. I
> could have moved with her, but my own career dreams kept me squarely where I
> was. So I guess I'm just as much to "blame" as it were haha.


That's another reason why I'm not in a serious relationship right now. I'm trying to become a PH. D psychologist I will undoubtedly leave the city I'm in to complete my PH. D/masters. If I get a serious relationship now, I'm setting myself up for a heartbreak. 



> Well Snapdragons kinda beat me to it, but I'd also like to point out that
> it's also a challenge to figure out how to please the same woman over and over
> again. You can't find only one thing that works and do that forever. You're
> forced to find a lot of different moves, and on top of that, you have to figure
> ...


Well, one day maybe I will trade my many puzzles for the endless Soduku puzzle but not now.


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## Palaver (Jan 5, 2010)

Caelum said:


> Do you find it difficult to find other people with the same values of chastity? What problems do you face in being chaste, and/or what do you do to overcome those problems?


Someone who is both chaste AND available is increasingly rare in the western culture. For females, this increases their value as long term partners. For males, its market value is irrelevant though it does contribute to their long term mating strategy. A man who tastes easy casual sex on a regular basis is less likely to find long term commitment appealing. Instant gratification ruins your long term goals. Western culture is all about instant gratification. Giving up sex might help some people finally get serious about other aspects of human relationships--like loyalty, family, purity, etc.

I remain chaste for biological and cultural reasons. I was raised in family oriented and conservative environment. This was not my choice, but it has a profound influence on my attitudes. Though I feel conflicted with the prevailing cultural norms, I accept my influences rather than rebel against them. It has just been easier for me that way because I did try to be different and it was painfully unnatural--I was seriously overcome with nausea.

That said, what other people think may be the least of your problems. Since you're a chaste man, you are expecting that next partner also be chaste. This is not likely to happen in the popular culture, but only within conservative institutions and cultures. For example, if my friend doesn't find a wife in America, he can call up a matchmaking service (his aunts) who can arrange for dates with upstanding women from his tribe. My friend is quite conservative about relationships so I envision him falling back on this option.

So what is my point... Ah, if you're going down the road of chastity as a modern westernized man (for women there are benefits) you are doing this only as a matter of practice in the art of focus and discipline. Don't expect seven virgins to waiting for you at the end of your ordeal (the chaste and perfect partner) or any form of reward or validation from western culture. Do it only for yourself. Let God be your only witness, so to speak.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Palaver said:


> Someone who is both chaste AND available is increasingly rare in the western culture. For females, this increases their value as long term partners. For males, its market value is irrelevant though it does contribute to their long term mating strategy. A man who tastes easy casual sex on a regular basis is less likely to find long term commitment appealing. Instant gratification ruins your long term goals. Western culture is all about instant gratification. Giving up sex might help some people finally get serious about other aspects of human relationships--like loyalty, family, purity, etc.
> 
> I remain chaste for biological and cultural reasons. I was raised in family oriented and conservative environment. This was not my choice, but it has a profound influence on my attitudes. Though I feel conflicted with the prevailing cultural norms, I accept my influences rather than rebel against them. It has just been easier for me that way because I did try to be different and it was painfully unnatural--I was seriously overcome with nausea.
> 
> ...


 If we could just nail down what God really wants from us in the bible... So confusing it makes my head spin. First we should follow mosaic law, then we shouldn't, then we are his greatest creation, he then loves us, then he doesn't.


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

What Palaver said.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

kristle said:


> There is definitely a level of excitement when you sleep with someone for the first time. BUT the sex is not its best until you've been working together for an extended period of time.
> 
> I guess one of the reasons one night stands turn me off is because a stranger wouldn't know your sweet spots, may not even care. Through marriage I've basically gained a 10 year veteran. Specifically trained for my likes, desires and with the experience to execute them correctly. AND the self-interest to do it, knowing he'll receive the same.
> 
> ...


I agree with the first two paragraphs, but not the last two. 

First, sex is definitely both a skill and a team sport. As such, "practice makes perfect". All other things being equal, the more time with your partner, the better the two of you will work together for the reasons stated (if both are motivated of course). We both agree on that it would appear. 

As far as other sexual encounters not being helpful, this is flat wrong in my experience. While it's true that no two womens' bodies are the same, there are certainly aspects of sex that many women like. If you're only with one partner, you may never discover this and, moreover, it may never occur to you to even try. You don't know what you don't know. 

In addition, there's a degree of confidence that happens with experience. Our desire for sexual pleasure already contrasts and conflicts with most typical sexual mores which influence us to be more conservative or even ashamed about such things. This is particularly true with those who are more religious and who, of course, are less likely to have sex before marriage. Sexual experience with partners has taught me that quite often if I confidently try something new, it's a relief to my partner and influences them to open up and ask for more. 

I'm not advocating for sex before marriage. Do what you like and what you can live with. I just happen to think that social mores tend to push us to find reasons why "sex is bad" more than the opposite, and I particularly buck against those who are virgins with a religious bent confusing moralizing for sexual wisdom.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

The Great One said:


> I've heard that too. I guess I don't like monogamy because I enjoy solving the complicated puzzles of figuring how to make each woman cum. Seriously, I don't want to solve the same puzzles everyday.


Actually I highly doubt that you're "solving" those puzzles. You won't get to the kill screen if you're only reaching level 2 each time.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Sexual wisdom, I love that. Seriously good stuff.


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

I'd agree this type of discussion doesn't really have a correct answer. The variables are different for everyones life, we could maybe reach a consensus on a very specific case, but this is to general. Only common thread on this issue is: it depends.


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## Waiting (Jul 10, 2011)

not a virgin either, but ive grown to a point spiritually where this is what i am choosing. its difficult... very very difficult, but after what ive been through all thats ive seen and experience in my short time here, i know it is the right way and truly it would yeild a much MUCH higher ratio of marriages that last with lasting love as well.


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

Available chaste women are rare? Are you kidding me??? I can name a bunch off the top of my head, just women I know personally. It's finding an available chaste man that's practically impossible. If I wanted to have sex before marriage, you can bet I'd be in a relationship. It's easy to find a man who's experienced. I've just now started going out with someone who's also a virgin, has the same beliefs as me. I'm 21. So the chaste available women are out there and we're sick of hormonal men who won't wait.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

> If we could just nail down what God really wants from us in the bible... So confusing it makes my head spin. First we should follow mosaic law, then we shouldn't, then we are his greatest creation, he then loves us, then he doesn't.


I'm a Christian but because the laws of the religion are not set in stone, I have trouble being a strong Christian. I hate that the Bible is so much up to the interpreter because it allows the corrupt to interpret the Bible as they see fit, and to use to manipulate the masses.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

KateMarie999 said:


> Available chaste women are rare? Are you kidding me??? I can name a bunch off the top of my head, just women I know personally. It's finding an available chaste man that's practically impossible. If I wanted to have sex before marriage, you can bet I'd be in a relationship. It's easy to find a man who's experienced. I've just now started going out with someone who's also a virgin, has the same beliefs as me. I'm 21. So the chaste available women are out there and we're sick of hormonal men who won't wait.


 It makes you sick that we perform a basic human function??? What do we do it in front of you guys or something?


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Chipps said:


> 5.5? **Shudders**
> 
> Were all big kids here though, I think we should be able to talk openly about penis size. Especially ones that have been thoroughly measured. Lol!
> 
> Were all mature enough to talk about genitals here. Its not that big of a deal.


I also think that we are all mature enough to talk about penis size here. Yes, the thickness is awesome. I just wish it were longer like our friend here. It's only like 5-5.5 inches long depending on how horny I am. Lmao, because my penis is short and fat, the last girl I had sex with told me, "Sex with you feels like I'm having Danny Devito dipped into my vagina".


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

The Great One said:


> I also think that we are all mature enough to talk about penis size here. Yes, the thickness is awesome. I just wish it were longer like our friend here. It's only like 5-5.5 inches long depending on how horny I am. Lmao, because my penis is short and fat, the last girl I had sex with told me, "Sex with you feels like I'm having* Danny Devito dipped into my vagina*".


LOL.

Girth definitely matters more than length. I could handle 5.5X5.5. Men with too much length can hit and damage the cervix. Thats what makes me shudder. There are women out there that like really really big um..penis, I find that in BBC porn I always wonder where the hell that thing is going. Its disgusting. And scary.


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## DustyDrill (May 20, 2011)

Nope, I get grumpy when I'm horny. No one wants to marry a grouchy asshole.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Chipps said:


> LOL.
> 
> Girth definitely matters more than length. I could handle 5.5X5.5. Men with too much length can hit and damage the cervix. Thats what makes me shudder. There are women out there that like really really big um..penis, I find that in BBC porn I always wonder where the hell that thing is going. Its disgusting. And scary.


Hmm...Where do you live? I could send you some pics if you want. Don't get offended....I'm just offering. Hopefully you could reciprocate?


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

The Great One said:


> Hmm...Where do you live? I could send you some pics if you want. Don't get offended....I'm just offering. Hopefully you could reciprocate?


Lol. Id never do something like that. Dont worry, its hard for me to get offended, though I was searching the internet for a short girthy penis. I cant find pictures of any. Im determined though.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Chipps said:


> Lol. Id never do something like that. Dont worry, its hard for me to get offended, though I was searching the internet for a short girthy penis. I cant find pictures of any. Im determined though.


lol, I can easily shorten your search if you PM me your phone number, you don't even have to send me any pics if you want.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

@The Great One

your inbox is full. I tried to message you back.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Chipps said:


> @The Great One
> 
> your inbox is full. I tried to message you back.


It is cleared out now.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

The Great One said:


> She's right though, you must have to either:
> 
> A: Date really slutty women who have had sex with so many men that that their vaginas look like meat curtains.
> 
> ...


I have gone down till the cows come home (in the sense of seeing an "o" face) and it still is a tight squeeze. I guess my key to a woman'a chastity belt might need a lock smith to make things stick less. I was laughing while I typed that.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> I have gone down till the cows come home (in the sense of seeing an "o" face) and it still is a tight squeeze. I guess my key to a woman'a chastity belt might need a lock smith to make things stick less. I was laughing while I typed that.


Well sir, I'm sure that you have either pleasured or tortured many a woman.


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## Auringonpaiste (Aug 8, 2011)

Remaining chaste until I'm married is something that is very important to me. As someone who is neither a virgin nor feels any sense of devotion any religious dogma, I know this may seem a strange value. I am lucky enough to have gone through some things that have shown me how powerful my sexuality is and what it's REALLY worth.

Yes, I do have a hopelessly romantic view of love, sex, and marriage and I see no reason not to have those views. Some people have the ability to have sex without any (conscious) emotional attachment to their partner, but I am not one of those people. If ever the love of my life finds me (sure, I could always seek him out, but a real man wouldn't sit back and make his woman fight for him, would he?) I would want to feel like I was remarrying him every time we made love. I know that some, well, most of you are rolling your eyes at this sentiment, but if you are it's probably because you don't believe that true, poetic love can exist in the world. I've actually never seen that sort of love, but I still have to believe in it. 

Someday, if ever the relationship presents itself, I want to be felt - not just touched - and I dream of being so close to someone that our souls unite. This doesn't mean I don't want to get crazy and be all kinds of adventurous, I just want to do so in a committed, soulful, honest way.

I understand that I may never find a man in the world with values, morals, and ideals that harmonize beautifully with mine - so that's why I've stopped looking long ago. If he doesn't find me, then it's not the end of the world. The more I learn about myself, the more I fall in love with me, anyway - so my love story can honestly just end here and I would be happy. I'd rather end up happily alone than having sex outside of a truly committed relationship or having sex within a less than healthy marriage.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

Too often people form their views on sex and relationships based on what society around them tells them they should. Someone raised in a religious environment where sex before marriage is frowned upon so that becomes their view has the same level of respect from me for their view as someone who goes the opposite path, which is to say little. People who form their views through independent introspection and figuring out what is correct for them personally are the people who hold views I can respect, even if that view is vastly different to mine.

Personally I don't see sex as sacred, what's more I don't value the institution of marriage so there is zero interest for me to remain sexless. Besides, if feels damn good!

That said seeing as monetary and sexual issues are often cause for divorce I don't think it's the healthiest thing for sexual compatibility to be a theoretical aspect of a relationship before marriage, likewise neither should the concept of how to handle money together.


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## Richard (Aug 16, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> I sometimes wonder if eternal virgins have a genetic inferiority that gave them a predisposition to never procreate so the others will more often down the line for the continuation of the human race


That probably applies more to my case than her own. She isn’t a virgin, she evidentially has the choice of procreating. In accordance with, or despite, her moral and personal values the option is still there and in most cases will still be exercised. I wouldn’t write her case off yet.

As for those of us who have never had the possibility by default after a fair amount of time, I’d be inclined to agree with you that it’s probably time for our lineage to make an exit.


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## Olena (Jan 2, 2011)

REEPER said:


> That probably applies more to my case than her own. She isn’t a virgin, she evidentially has the choice of procreating.


It seems the more people wish to abstain from sex, the less amount of people there will be to fuck. Less choices, less variety.

This is the only reason I can think of as to why anyone would be upset about someone choosing to wait. 

'Oh damn, another person I can't fuck. looks like my options are becoming limited.'

Thomas can't be an ENTP. I believe they are more open-minded and intelligent than that. He can't seem to handle anything out of his own comfort zone.

YEAH. I JUST WENT THE LOW ROUTE OF CLAIMING A MISTYPING.


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## Richard (Aug 16, 2011)

Olena said:


> It seems the more people wish to abstain from sex, the less amount of people there will be to fuck. Less choices, less variety.
> 
> This is the only reason I can think of as to why anyone would be upset about someone choosing to wait.
> 
> ...


Firstly I’d like to formally apologise for that horrific typo, I meant to type evidently.

Some people attempt to correct the reasoning of others in order to reinforce their own superiority as justified by their “correct” perspective, others I think genuinely want to save people from themselves.
Perhaps some just enjoy the intellectual stimulation of a debate regardless of the outcome.
I’m not sure he’s looking at things in the manner that you suggest, but I suppose it’s possible.

I won’t go so far as to try and type Thomas, but I do think this is one of those more subjective topics that are better left alone, akin to arguing whether one’s favourite colour should be red or blue.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Olena said:


> It seems the more people wish to abstain from sex, the less amount of people there will be to fuck. Less choices, less variety.
> 
> This is the only reason I can think of as to why anyone would be upset about someone choosing to wait.
> 
> ...


 It really is just a passing thought, not one meant to be spiteful toward someone's life choices. Lead to one heck of a discussion. I should of probably used eternally without children in place of virgin to make more sense.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I think neither extreme is healthy on its own. All things in moderation. I get that sex can be just fucking, but, no one knows for sure if they will ever meet and marry the one. And yet I can see the need to avoid sex in order to build trust and vet people. Trust is the key to any relationship, and whether a virgin or not, you are sharing your body with another person, and that's something special in its own right.


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## Eliza. Peace to you. (Nov 19, 2011)

QuixoticallyYours said:


> Your poor grammar is really the only thing that got under my skin, sugar. Well that and the fact that you didn't make a lick of sense.....


Patience, dear friend! You must realize that you are a beneficiary of the many rich gifts of a chaste life and that includes wisdom, clarity of thought, and a sharpening of the mind. Others, not so fortunate, and need some slack... 

I notice a real blurring here of chastity/virginity. The OP is about chastity. One can be chaste and not a virgin. One can be a virgin and not chaste. So, two entirely different topics...

Also, there is chastity in marriage. I am certainly not talking about that very unusual exception, either, celibacy in marraige. Chaste marriage partners are all for each other _only_, in thought and deed...

Chaste virginity is a lovely thing, highly valued by God - He chose this for his own mother! It must be mysteriously and powerfully deep! - but its the exception these days. 

But _chastity is for all_, no matter how possibly sordid the past - and no matter how recent that past is. Think of Mary Magdalene, praised by Jesus in comparison to her good and chaste and most-probably virgin sister Martha, and so _very_ soon - months! - could not have been any more than two years! - after her previous extremely sordidly unchaste life, for having "chosen the better part", and for having "surpassed her sister in love"... What praise, from the Author of Love!


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## Eliza. Peace to you. (Nov 19, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Being my ex was a virgin before I met her, and upon us having sex for the first time, once she heard from my lips that I had sex with someone previously to ever meeting her, (not lying that I was a virgin or anything prior; she just never asked) then came a guilt streak of fucked up comments that till this day don't sit well with me. Such as I bet you liked fucking her in comparison to me and you just fantasize about it all the time don't you? etc. (This was during us making love once)
> 
> If a girl is a virgin I will dump her right there and then move on to someone who has more experience so they wont place importance on sex as if it's a moral code and dogma to follow that will lead to complete care and wanting from another just because we have sex after saying the words "I do" with a contract to sign by the state.
> 
> Virgins or those who waited until marriage to have sex are treating sex with so much importance and sanctity that it becomes a judgmental factor to derive high status from and impose upon others as if they are not only better than everyone else, but that they think ill of those who don't wait or have had sex before.


I have not read all of this thread so maybe you explained more, Thomas. I read the first and last pages, not much else. You did not say if you married your ex, or just...

Hard to believe you married and it was not until the honeymoon it came up you had past experience?? That's very strange!

Your ex sounded very insecure, questioning your past. This insecurity could very well come from within herself. But also possibly you did not make her feel secure and loved. Could that be it? Not trying to be mean. But perhaps you just didn't love her enough or deeply enough and she felt it and looked for a reason?

I htink you are generalizing about virgins. I am thinking of my friend who didn't kiss til her wedding. There was no doubt in either of their minds that that part of marraige was going to go well, because they had so much love and desire for each other. And it did go very well, so she says, and they certainly both look happy and fulfilled and connected and so I expect it is so.

Virgins are like any other people group, healthy and not, chaste and not...

My ex-husband was an unhealthy ESFJ and many of his negatives were manifested in a very ESFJ way. Also I know a couple of other very unhealthy ESFJ's connected to my life. It would be easily for me to generalize, based on my experience, that ESFJs were all bad news, just as you are generalizing about virgins or other chaste people. But it would not be fair or accurate...


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## Lev (Jan 11, 2012)

Do I *believe* in it? 

No, then I'd be saying I believed in "holding out for the future" and that's totally against my behavior. I will, however, agree with @Brian1 that moderation is best in all things. 

I've seen the worst of both sides; they wait, get married, doesn't work out, divorce...guess who isn't a virgin. 
Then there's the other side who lays with whoever, whenever, wherever and loses track of themselves and where they've been and is like a walking plague. Watch out.

If it fulfills a cause for someone, so be it, I can respect that. I grew up in a household that demanded this behavior, but I didn't believe in the cause behind it. Still don't.

They always tell me (my parents) if you lay down with somebody, then you'll never see past the sex, and be blinded. I have seen the opposite; if you want it so bad and don't get it, you'll stay around until you do either way. Come hell or high water. For some of us it's a drive that cannot be tamed.


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## Eliza. Peace to you. (Nov 19, 2011)

Cerebro said:


> ...and should be very proud of your integrity. Integrity is something lost much too early these days...


 Oh! Integrity! It makes me swoon!


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## Eliza. Peace to you. (Nov 19, 2011)

First I have to say this: @QuixoticallyYours - LOL, quit being so bashful and reticent! 

...just teasing you!



Cerebro said:


> ...
> My father was a minister for the United Church of Canada (think Canadian Methodists) for 20 years, but now has converted to Catholicism and is continuing his theological studies. I respect any denomination, but don't really consider myself any in particular, at least not yet....


Wow! He gave up his pastorate, his livelihood. I am impressed! Does your father have his story online? I also am a convert to Catholicism. The last thing in the world I ever thought I would be. Don't ever try to seriously disprove the claims of the Catholic Church as I did or you will be _nabbed_... 

I often like to watch Marcus Grodi's Journey Home at 8pm on Monday nights, where he interviews mostly protestant pastors who gave up their beloved faith and entire lifestyle to become Catholic. One of my favorite stories is Alex Jones, a black Pentacostal inner city pastor on fire for the Lord who took his wife and a good portion of his congregation with him when he converted! [oops, he does not favor the word "converted"]...


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## Eliza. Peace to you. (Nov 19, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Do you mean my problem as in she's the problem and I am emotionally investing time better spent elsewhere or that she doesn't have a problem and that I do?


Wiht her disorder, yes, she has a serious problem. If you contributed to it I cannot say. But even if you did, her problem was serious in itself.



> It's not like my genitals fused to hers and I can never have sex with anyone ever again lol Thank God I didn't marry her but still had sexual needs met, and no divorce trial.  I'll just have my cake and eat it too.


Wow. You have introduced a great deal of talk on genitals, for a thread on chastity. Its not really considerate. People practising chastity must practise chastity of thought, too, so this is no postive contribution to that goal.

But concerning that and the conundrum you focused on here on this thread, and aligned with this topic of this thread, here are some thoughts.

If you could find the faith, strength and integrity to discipline yourself to the requirement the God of your faith enjoins on you - chastity - you could save yourself a heap of trouble. Your ex may have brought you cake, but problems, too, including leaving you now wondering if there is something so wrong with you as to make you incompatible with a woman in the future. We are all quite incompatible with some others in some way or another. But that doesn't matter, you just need the _one_ to be compatible with. God can be trusted to find that one for you. So establishing a relationship with Him is really more important than anything else, and one way to start is by doing what He asks. You will find much peace in that! And you cannot out-give him!


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> Oh let me count the ways to quantify any of that... 0.
> 
> I'm Methodist raised, we interpret the bible how we see fit, it's great actually.


It sounds like you're a Rhythm Methodist...


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Chipps said:


> I think @_Palaver_ hit the nail on the head.
> 
> 
> If a person plans on getting married one day and wants a closed monogamous relationship sleeping around is only going to put a huge dent in those dreams. You can't just go from sleeping with a new person every week to one person for the next 30+ years. It makes no sense and I feel like people realize that way too late. Behavior doesn't change overnight. I think we all have pick a road and walk it because one you start its really hard to stop. You can't unfuck 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 people. You also can't control how a potential partner feels about that. Thats another thing people don't think about. Men actually seek out women with lower numbers or that are virgins because the odds of them cheating is lower. But what mans these men think those women kept chaste for them?
> ...


One per week? 52 per year? Seriously? Those are approaching Wilt Chamberlain numbers.

Do you think just a little bit that you've set up a straw man here?

How about something that applies better to me, which is 2-3 per year (unless of course I'm exclusive with someone throughout), and I would figure is well within the "normal" range for people who do have sex before marriage? Is that too much to scale down from?


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Eerie said:


> Ugh, this is groady. Keep the details of your genitalia private, PM's exist for a reason.
> 
> And fyi, women have babies who have heads that are sometimes 14 inches around. They can handle a penis.


Women also say childbirth is painful. When's the last time you got an epidural or a Cesarian to have sex?

As for my genetalia details, my penis is ESFP, enneagram type 3w2 7w8 9w8, sx/so. It's also a Capricorn and likes to dance.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> Women also say childbirth is painful. When's the last time you got an epidural or a Cesarian to have sex?


Number one, a majority of cesareans are completely unnecessary. completely. It's being way overblown. Number two, it's not like what he described was so monstrous that he has to test women out all the time to see if they can handle him. I mean really, who goes into detail more than once about their penis size on a forum.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> One per week? 52 per year? Seriously? Those are approaching Wilt Chamberlain numbers.
> 
> Do you think just a little bit that you've set up a straw man here?
> 
> How about something that applies better to me, which is 2-3 per year (unless of course I'm exclusive with someone throughout), and I would figure is well within the "normal" range for people who do have sex before marriage? Is that too much to scale down from?


Lol, I don't think MOST people ever get close to that. Ive been reading quite a few blogs about people who do however have very high numbers or people who are very accustomed to very short term relationship for "fun" and think that quitting all of that and settling down is that black and white. I don't think it is. Maybe for some, but if I only ever dated for 3 months at a time I would be come accustomed to having someone or something knew every few months. Even if a person went into a realtionship looking for long term and things didnt work out so they moved on, like you said 2-3 a year, Id wonder if that person had the ability to make good decision on the people they are with or if they were just really flaky and moved on quickly. Thats not a person you'd want to marry. 

I definitely don't think people should be virgins especially since the marriage age has been pushed back, but I think that after a certain point you have to get serious and that means changing your behavior. Plus it comes down to values for me. Im atheist, so it has nothing to do with religious beliefs but I cannot/will not have sex with just anyone. I only have sex with people I value because I value my body and I value sex. If someone thinks sex is something that should be done casually its fine with me, but id rather not date them. Not to say that if you've ever had casual sex once or twice I wouldn't date you, but if your views on sex are too different than mine Id rather not date you. 

I think relationships help people to figure out the kind of person they are really looking for if they haven't found it but if you need 20 relationships to figure that out then it makes me question your thought process. Its not really the numbers that count. Its the story behind them. There is always a story and that story thus reflects that person.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

@redmanXNTP

I also think it might have to do with our generational differences. Im 22 and you're erm...older. Lol. I think you mentioned you've been divorced? Well the same things that apply to me definitely don't apply to you. Once you hit a certain age, ive read it probably stop mattering.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Skimming through this thread, I've noticed frequent mentions of self respect and integrity. I'm curious how this is supposed to tie in with celibacy?

I am a devout atheist, and have always had a very difficult time understanding why someone would be so devoted to abstinence before marriage. Granted, I will probably never get married, because I am not religious in any definition of the word, and therefore see the institution as somewhat obsolete. 

Anyways, my question is related to motivation. It seems to me that somebody who associates loss of dignity and self worth with having premarital sex is probably someone who has some deeper psychological issues at play. I'm not trying to promote promiscuity here, but celibacy seems extreme. Is this usually a result of a religious upbringing?

I hope nobody finds any of what I'm trying to say offensive. I simply have never understood this issue, and would like to have some insight into the other side of things.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

QuixoticallyYours said:


> It's "would have" not "would of" for one thing, and I find your diction a bit obnoxious and confusing. (not unlike your person.)
> 
> You are neither terribly intelligent, nor too skilled in the art of trolling. If you were, I might have understood your sarcasm at some point in this conversation, and you might have understood my own.
> 
> ...


Fair enough lol.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Eliza. Peace to you. said:


> If you could find the faith, strength and integrity to discipline yourself to the requirement the God of your faith enjoins on you - chastity - you could save yourself a heap of trouble. *Your ex may have brought you cake, but problems, too, including leaving you now wondering if there is something so wrong with you as to make you incompatible with a woman in the future. We are all quite incompatible with some others in some way or another. *But that doesn't matter, you just need the _one_ to be compatible with. God can be trusted to find that one for you. *So establishing a relationship with Him is really more important than anything else, and one way to start is by doing what He asks. *You will find much peace in that! And you cannot out-give him!


Yep I mean this is the 1st century AD where at 16 I should of been married and producing as many kids as possible so that one might live beyond my ancestors years. If my wife didn't like it too bad, rape would just be par for the course. Of course we don't have condoms during this era or birth control that give us a choice rather than an obligation to remain chaste. All the while "apostles" with psychotic conditions that desperately required medication to quill the voices in their head were out there giving obscene guilt trips for the purpose of law and order in a moral-less civilization that hadn't come about the age of reason.*

I'll do what he asks when he gets real with the times or his followers do. I'll just have sex with a virgin and pay the father 50 shekels and be good to go...

I never had an inferiority complex with myself because of the behaviors of other people who obviously have the problem.*

However I may come across is not my problem but is simply a lack of understanding from the other individual.

His prerogative as written by "eye witnesses" during the lifetime of other eye witnesses is shitty for the 20th century.

I don't entertain such complexes, I wonder how others come to presumptions that what they say or think of me from open ended discussions is considered true.


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## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

> Well then only people with low sex drives can abstain? I disagree.
> When I
> tested as sx/so, as I see you are too, I thought I must have this wrong and did
> several retakes but it kept coming up the same. So I kept reading on the
> ...


Well, it's admirable that you are remaining chaste for God. I too, am also a Christian. However, in my mind, I believe that God would prefer that I go out and have sex now, and then finally marry a woman one day after adventurously experimenting....rather than getting married now just to go out and have sex because it would eventually end up in divorce. That's just my mindset.


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## GoodOldDreamer (Sep 8, 2011)

The Great One said:


> Well, it's admirable that you are remaining chaste for God. I too, am also a Christian. However, in my mind, I believe that God would prefer that I go out and have sex now, and then finally marry a woman one day after adventurously experimenting....rather than getting married now just to go out and have sex because it would eventually end up in divorce. That's just my mindset.


If you get married just to have sex, you shouldn't be getting married in the first place. Regardless of the time, or whether you're religious or not. You know, considering there tends to be two people involved in that equation. :dry:


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## Cerebro (Jul 30, 2011)

The Great One said:


> Well, it's admirable that you are remaining chaste for God. I too, am also a Christian. However, in my mind, I believe that God would prefer that I go out and have sex now, and then finally marry a woman one day after adventurously experimenting....rather than getting married now just to go out and have sex because it would eventually end up in divorce. That's just my mindset.





GoodOldDreamer said:


> If you get married just to have sex, you shouldn't be getting married in the first place. Regardless of the time, or whether you're religious or not. You know, considering there tends to be two people involved in that equation. :dry:


@GoodOldDreamer, you stole the words right out of my mouth.

When we practice chastity until marriage, it's about so much more than that. Marriage should be about more than sex. Relationships should be about more than sex. Hence the choice of chastity until marriage. Getting married just to have sex is a horrible reason to get married. And the idea of chastity is to maintain control of one's... animal instincts, at least that's my reason.


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## Thomas D M Thompson (Sep 14, 2011)

Cerebro said:


> @_GoodOldDreamer_ , you stole the words right out of my mouth.
> 
> When we practice chastity until marriage, it's about so much more than that. Marriage should be about more than sex. Relationships should be about more than sex. Hence the choice of chastity until marriage. Getting married just to have sex is a horrible reason to get married. And the idea of chastity is to maintain control of one's... animal instincts, at least that's my reason.


The problem is, you are placing importance on sex being the one major attribute of the relationship when you proclaim chastity to another individual so it does inadvertently become the most important aspect that is on both people's minds the whole time. Emotional torment ensues and it still just becomes that. If you however leave it aside and just get to know each other while have fun once in a while with each other's body parts, then it doesn't cross your mind as an aspect to be put on a pedestal, rather than just seen as a function of being human.

As you said, it's a horrible reason to get married but getting married is the _*only*_ act you can do in order to have sex, a basic human function mind you, and not be damned to hellfire or guilt tripped by those around you. That's just shitty and doesn't give peace but a whole slew of disgusting pressure. Makes me sick thinking about it and it still does each time I am told from someone I am romantically interested in, "I am saving myself for marriage." Sorry, no thanks.


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## GoodOldDreamer (Sep 8, 2011)

Thomas D M Thompson said:


> The problem is, you are placing importance on sex being the one major attribute of the relationship when you proclaim chastity to another individual so it does inadvertently become the most important aspect that is on both people's minds the whole time. Emotional torment ensues and it still just becomes that. If you however leave it aside and just get to know each other while have fun once in a while with each other's body parts, then it doesn't cross your mind as an aspect to be put on a pedestal, rather than just seen as a function of being human.
> 
> As you said, it's a horrible reason to get married but getting married is the _*only*_ act you can do in order to have sex, a basic human function mind you, and not be damned to hellfire or guilt tripped by those around you. That's just shitty and doesn't give peace but a whole slew of disgusting pressure. Makes me sick thinking about it and it still does each time I am told from someone I am romantically interested in, "I am saving myself for marriage." Sorry, no thanks.


This is also assuming that the people in question put sex on any high priority to be had. :dry: Especially above things like having a relationship, an emotional (and in some cases, spiritual) bond, an intimate connection formed prior to, with and without sex...

But yeah. Anyone who's chaste must clearly have sex on the brain 24/7 and is constantly looking for any loophole they can to get some. Because, you know, they can't possibly WANT to be chaste. They're only forced into it. Tied down to it. It's never of their own will.

You either have a very limited perspective on humanity, good sir, or you are incredibly biased and make no attempt to see beyond it.

Edit/Addition: Just by removing a few words, I can say the exact same thing as the quote above, without including sex whatsoever:

_"If you however leave it aside and just get to know each other, then it doesn't cross your mind as an aspect to be put on a pedestal..."

_Why is it so difficult to understand? You can have a relationship with someone, a deep, romantic, serious relationship, and not have sex involved immediately or hell, at all if both parties are into that. Sex is one part, and in all honesty, a fairly small part.

But then, you clearly aren't interested in relationships so much as getting into another's pants, so, whatever. >_> I'm just putting it out there that someone who's chaste doesn't necessarily have sex as an end goal in a relationship. It's often not that big of a priority, let alone the only one on the list.

Might I also add that sex being a "basic human function" is a lame justification. Vomiting is a basic human function too. Doesn't mean you should hurl when you're bored or restless just because you haven't in awhile, or that you should go infect yourself with a flu because you haven't been sick in years and might be missing out.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Er... just curious. Are you implying that people who are chaste have no desire for sex? That they abstain from it for lack of sexual attraction?

Otherwise it seems to me that they don't _want_ to be abstainent but choose to be for fear of the consequences, religious, social, medical or otherwise.


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## GoodOldDreamer (Sep 8, 2011)

Some people may be chaste due to social pressure, but not all. I was merely including that. Many people who are chaste do so because they value it. They value relationships. They value sex. And yes, some even put sex on a pedestal (which by the way, isn't always a bad thing).

There seems to be this misconception that if you're chaste, you're forced to be. That's not always the case, and I just find it annoying that people have this mentality of "well, I can't rise above my hormones, so obviously no one can."


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

The Catholic Church is supposed to be caste, but there are all these abuse stories. This is because, that they're waging a losing war. The Catholic Church is a religious institution, so they are going to be very involved in praying. When a person prays, they are activating the pineal gland. Now, from a theological point of view the Bible and all regions, focus on dissolving the ego. Your ego is in your pineal gland. And there's some benefit to humbling yourself before God. The problem with that though, call it God's humor, is the pineal gland is part of the endocrine system which controls basic carnal sexual desires. I like it just for the release of DMT, my body's own psychedelic. So, I would say it's imposable to rise above hormones by being chaste, at least from a religious point of view of being chaste.

I think if you aren't introduced to something, I don't drink alcohol except for the occasional one glass of red wine, then it's easier to say no. So if a chaste person isn't introduced to sex at all or as often as the average person engaging in sex with partners, then it's easier to say no to hormones,but I don't think people can rise above them. I do like the idea though of taking what goes into these things relationships and sex seriously by going the chaste route, that's a good point there. 




GoodOldDreamer said:


> Some people may be chaste due to social pressure, but not all. I was merely including that. Many people who are chaste do so because they value it. They value relationships. They value sex. And yes, some even put sex on a pedestal (which by the way, isn't always a bad thing).
> 
> There seems to be this misconception that if you're chaste, you're forced to be. That's not always the case, and I just find it annoying that people have this mentality of "well, I can't rise above my hormones, so obviously no one can."


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