# Ni/Se vs. Ne/Si - How to Recognize the Dynamic?



## MrShatter

What are some traits that Ni/Se users posses? What about Ne/Si users? What is an easy way to tell them apart? 

From what I can tell, it's pretty easy to spot an Fi/Te user from a Ti/Fe user. 

Ti users being silent for a moment then explaining a concept - usually incoherently. 
Te users frowning when someone is explaining something that doesn't make sense.
Fi users being silent for a moment then explaining their moral standpoint on the subject.
Fe users looking a little confused when someone's morales seem selfish.

Fi/Te - Consistently ethical action
Ti/Fe - Logically considerate action

I think I have the judging functions down, (That is just a _brief_ overview, as an example.)

Now, how do we notice Ne, Si, Ni, Se,

Or more specifically Ne/Si, Ni/Se
Any ideas?


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## TAHTGUY

Ne/Si - generate genius idea, but after a while realize that something like that already has been thought thousand times? 

just a random thought, don't know if it's correct or not


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## B-Con

Ne drinks up information, looks for patterns, and focuses on possible new solutions.

Si recalls specific information, acts on experience, and relies on tested solutions.

Just determine which one is the primary one. The primary one is usually the strongest by far.


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## MrShatter

I know what they _do_. I'm more concerned with what they look like to an observer.


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## B-Con

MrShatter said:


> I know what they _do_. I'm more concerned with what they look like to an observer.


Ne is going to look like someone who likes to find new information and likes to speculate on what may happen. They don't dwell too much on the past. They're open to new solutions to old problems and they try many of them, often comparing and contrasting them. When they talk it's usually about ideas. They have more ideas than they follow-through on. An EN_P can talk your ear off about all their neat ideas. They're more likely to be concerned with how things "should" be and try to change reality to fit it. Hobbies will probably be more idea or concept oriented (unlikely to be a mechanic). 

Si is going to talk more about experiences and first-hand lessons learned. They will approach a new solution somewhat skeptically and try to talk you into the old solution, likely re-iterating the successes it has had in the past. They will focus more on refining existing ideas than starting from scratch. They are less likely to make the same mistake twice. They will try to compare new ideas against old experiences they've had, and they'll probably enjoy activities that feed them specific information or sensory input. They're more likely to be concerned with dealing with current reality, or "how things are", rather than trying to change things to be the way they should be. Hobbies will probably involved specific details (more likely to be a mechanic).


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## psynite

Ni - Is, in short, about perspectives, it perceives by looking at a situation from different views. Usually by trying to zoom out for a global view of an idea. It is subjective (therefore introverted) because it perceives from singular perspectives of the person, and is intuitive because often the person connects different ideas without any apparent logic, method, or steps in between the jumps between the ideas. To identify who is Ni dominant, you have to be aware of the ideas that they talk about and how they do it. Best way to do it is to get into a topic that they enjoy, and watch how they go about explaining it. If they haven't had to explain it very often, there can be a ton of jumping back and forth between the big picture and smaller details that they have to fill in when they see the dumb founded look in your eyes. Ni is very big picture, so it will start with main ideas and fill in details as necessary.

Se- In Ni dominants, Se makes its appearance (or lack thereof) in how the person sees themselves. I read (and have personally experienced) that an inferior Se makes it hard for the Ni dominant to objectively define themselves, so if the person wonders how they are perceived then it could point to Ni-Se (Who am I? Existential crisis anyone?). This is in part because Ni is always shifting perspectives with Ni, and moving oneself into a new perspective comes with the price that you have to cover up what you just were, and that is sort of the relation that Ni has over Se. Inferior Se can also appear in reckless behaviour or tendencies, but I'm not sure about why that is.

here is a good article that goes into Ni-Se a little more http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18320


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## zynthaxx

MrShatter said:


> I know what they _do_. I'm more concerned with what they look like to an observer.


@B-Con gave you the Ne-Si approach.

The Se-Ni approach is to require hands-on experience to really grasp something. An INTP (Ne-Si) can tell me the concepts and I'll understand what happens superficially - probably well enough to teach somebody else the theory of how it works (using my Ni and Ti to connect the dots), but to really understand it, I need to have held it in my hands and given it a good poking around.
As B-Con tangentially said, Se-Ni will be focused on the current situation: "This is the problem that needs to be solved right now" is an ISTP in action. 

An unhealthy ISTP might become so engrossed with what needs to be solved right now that he forgets to think about the bigger picture and just jumps from one acute situation to another without a goal. 
Ne-Si on the other hand might become so concerned with what could eventually become problems that an unhealthy INTP might stop doing anything other than thinking, since "whatever he does will only end in catastrophe anyway".


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## Moss Icon

This will be interesting for me to follow as it directly relates to myself (INFP) and one of my closest friends (INFJ.) We seemed so similar at first but sometimes I feel like we're complete opposites. Having studied more and more about the MBTI and cognitive functions it seems both are true; we have the same traits but oppositely expressed. Fi-Ne-Si-Te VS Ni-Fe-Ti-Se

Rather than talk theory I'm just gonna share some of my observations about how the two of us seem to express our Ne/Si (me) and Ni/Se (him.) My Ne manifests in me kinda being "in tune" with the surrounding world rather than seeing it. It's like I "feel" the external ('feel' not in the emotional sense but in the Jedi sense of the word.) My Si on the other hand (which is pretty strong in me, despite being my Tertiary) gives me a near photographic memory and I remember smells, sights, feelings from a given time, what someone said and how it relates to things, with vivid accuracy. He, on the other hand employs Ni meaning he seems a lot more concerned with his own ideas about things, how he processes what happens internally. His Se means, for an Introverted Intuitive, he quite enjoys action; running around, jumping off walls, he's always pulling cartwheels or some shit like that. 

I guess I come off as kinda out-of-step with reality at times due to my processing the external via intuition and kinda self-absorbed as I often am consumed by memories, associated feelings and the like due to my Si. He, on the other hand, is more gregarious and has more of an extrovert air to him but can also come off as self-absorbed as he only takes seriously what his intuition tells him to. He is happy to be with larger groups of people but I am not. But when we're in smaller groups he is happy to be silent and almost withdraw, just watching people, whereas I find that aloof and prefer to connect. I remember things with vivid detail; events, moments, songs, feelings, what has been said or done, etc. He doesn't. He's more interested in possibilities and tends to ignore experience. I am more likely to be internally practical and rely on experience and how things come together. 

Just some examples. It's a tricky one to pinpoint.


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## Istbkleta

MrShatter said:


> I know what they _do_. I'm more concerned with what they look like to an observer.


Are you looking for a concrete external emanation of this internal process?

I believe there was a similar discussion on the ENTP forum.

My personal opinion is that there are a lot of other factors tainting the results. It's not a straight A->B relation. To account for those outside factors in a non-controlled environment seems impossible to me at this moment. I believe your efforts to be futile (if I am understanding what you want correctly).

Pls feel free to disagree in writing. I will value your opinion, even if I don't agree with it.


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## MrShatter

Istbkleta said:


> Are you looking for a concrete external emanation of this internal process?
> 
> I believe there was a similar discussion on the ENTP forum.
> 
> My personal opinion is that there are a lot of other factors tainting the results. It's not a straight A->B relation. To account for those outside factors in a non-controlled environment seems impossible to me at this moment. I believe your efforts to be futile (if I am understanding what you want correctly).
> 
> Pls feel free to disagree in writing. I will value your opinion, even if I don't agree with it.


:tongue: I'm getting what I want, don't worry.


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## Istbkleta

MrShatter said:


> :tongue: I'm getting what I want, don't worry.





Istbkleta said:


> Pls feel free to disagree in writing. I will value your opinion, even if I don't agree with it.


I have no doubt and not much concern for what you are getting.

I also want something and your response is not getting me anything. Please?


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## MrShatter

Istbkleta said:


> I have no doubt and not much concern for what you are getting.
> 
> I also want something and your response is not getting me anything. Please?


I'm looking for almost a behavioral example of the functions - what they would look like to an observer.


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## Dental Floss Tycoon

B-Con said:


> An EN_P can talk your ear off about all their neat ideas.


They can do it. And they will. They will.

*ENTPs' victim*

Yes, I suffer from the good-listener syndrome and extraverted people abuse of this.


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## wiseyoungsoul

Se is eXperience, you cannot extrovert sense.
Ni is iNtuition.
Ne is actually Perception, there is no such thing as Ne, you cannot extrovert intuition.
Si is Sense.

sorry for not really answering the question, but it helps to know the above.


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## MrShatter

wiseyoungsoul said:


> Se is eXperience, you cannot extrovert sense.
> Ni is iNtuition.
> Ne is actually Perception, there is no such thing as Ne, you cannot extrovert intuition.
> Si is Sense.
> 
> sorry for not really answering the question, but it helps to know the above.


Have we said you can? All cognitive functions are in internal processing blah blah blah. Extraverted intuition requires external stimuli. Extraverted sensing requires external stimuli. That's why they are called extraverted, not because they exist in the external world.


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## wiseyoungsoul

MrShatter said:


> Have we said you can? All cognitive functions are in internal processing blah blah blah. Extraverted intuition requires external stimuli. Extraverted sensing requires external stimuli. That's why they are called extraverted, not because they exist in the external world.


What do you mean "have we said you can?" I'm not saying that ex. functions "exist in the external world." I know very well that an extraverted function draws information/ stimuli from the external and then assimilates it internally. 
I was just stating my disagreement with the naming of certain functions. Ni is intuition and Ne is actually perception imo. If you look up the definitions of intuition and perception w/ Ni & Ne in mind you'll see what I'm talking about, like Ni involves the the unconscious psychic data that comes from within, while "Ne" is the perception of data from the external world. Ne looks at subliminal perceptions of the object and what feelings, thoughts, etc the object brings.


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## MrShatter

oh ok. Gotcha.


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## Fenrir317

It's great to have both Ne and Ni but I'll save that discussion for another thread as to not provoke it here :tongue: 

I think an Ni user or dom would appear from another's perspective as often during conversation peering at whoever they are talking to as if to try to read them, in some cases this may manifest as the Ni user's eyes squinting or narrowing to focus on the speaker. Often case when interacting with Ni doms you may have to gaurd yourself mentally against their intrusions (they often may not even notice that they are trying to pry), I have gotten used to this and as an Ne user it is often posible to trick the Ni of the other individual (like in the case of my INFJ friend I've known for quite a while) in many different ways which I will not go into as it would reveal my secrets. Anyway Ni may seem to just know things about you if are not prepared (Ne does this to but the Ni user in most cases will be more confident in his inference unless the Ne user is strong with their Ne and feeling integration for jdugement).


Ne might appear to possess a great deal of mental energy and have a myriad of solid ideas to begin with and would probably enjoy discussion of ideas. When a topic between the Ne user and another is going on when Ne picks up on a new idea it will seem to click in his/her mind and they may even get excited and boost the energy of the conversation (so much so that it may be hard to follow them) and they will continue to add on to this new idea of theirs untill it seems perfect or until they find a better idea to roll with. They may appear to have ideas that go over everyone's head or possibly, depending on the crowd, they could also tend to enjoy discussion and debate of ideas and in some cases even like to press their new ideas on others once those ideas are reinforced by the person's own feelings and logic. 

When Ne and Ni doms interact a lot of the time in my experience what happens is when one person presents an idea of theirs the other will aproach the concept from a whole new angle and both of the individual's intuition and other functions will fire up until the idea is transformed into a perfect version of itself improved from the original. This is often what happens with my discussions with my INTJ girlfriend and also with one of my INTJ friends (I like NTs).


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