# Is It Homophobic Not To Date Bisexual People?



## Belladonne (Mar 22, 2014)

So two of my friends were arguing for hours last night over whether or not it's homophobic (if you're straight) not to date somebody bisexual. (I.e. if you're a girl, you wouldn't date a bisexual guy, and vice versa).

Do you think that it's homophobic? I'm on the fence about this, never having fancied a guy who happened to be bi myself. On one hand, if you wouldn't date them because it's founded in homophobic beliefs like "people who are attracted to the same sex are dirty," then obviously that's bad. On the other, is not dating someone purely because they're bisexual, but not inherently founded in homophobic beliefs (if such a thing is possible) inherently bad?

Thoughts? :tongue:


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

I wish the option was just "no", because never is too strong. I chose no, but some may choose no because they do hate gay/lesbian people. I don't hate them at all.


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## Belladonne (Mar 22, 2014)

MelanieM said:


> I wish the option was just "no", because never is too strong. I chose no, but some may choose no because they do hate gay/lesbian people. I don't hate them at all.


I guess your answer might be "it depends?" (So no unless it's because you hate gay/lesbian people)


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

It's biphobic >.>


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

I chose depends on the reasons. If you don't date someone simply because they are bisexual I wouldn't find that "tolerant". I don't like the word "homophobic" it's created in the image of a pyschological phobia but it's just a prejudice. If someone had a real phobia to homosexuals they wouldn't be the aggressors, like saying I have a phobia against spiders, that means I'm afraid that is not the same as prejudice. But I imagine someone would reason that prejudice is fear but phobias usually result in anxiety and avoidance. Real life "homophobes" or at least what they are called are just prejudiced. Unless "homophobe" is someone who gets touched by a homosexual and cowers in fear but I'm not sure if that itself is prejudice but is a misunderstanding like any other phobia.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

LovesThinking said:


> I guess your answer might be "it depends?" (So no unless it's because you hate gay/lesbian people)


No, I probably wouldn't date a bisexual man or marry one. My answer is "no, but it's not because I'm a homophobe". It's my personal preference.


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## Belladonne (Mar 22, 2014)

Ace Face said:


> It's biphobic >.>


Pretty sure bi people can face homophobia too:

The Bisexual Index | What is Biphobia?

>.>


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## Belladonne (Mar 22, 2014)

MelanieM said:


> No, I probably wouldn't date a bisexual man or marry one. My answer is "no, but it's not because I'm a homophobe". It's my personal preference.


Then your answer would fall under "it depends". So, if it's personal preference (as in your case) it's not homophobic, but if it's because someone hates gay/lesbians then it is.


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## Belladonne (Mar 22, 2014)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I chose depends on the reasons. If you don't date someone simply because they are bisexual I wouldn't find that "tolerant". I don't like the word "homophobic" it's created in the image of a pyschological phobia but it's just a prejudice. If someone had a real phobia to homosexuals they wouldn't be the aggressors, like saying I have a phobia against spiders, that means I'm afraid that is not the same as prejudice. But I imagine someone would reason that prejudice is fear but phobias usually result in anxiety and avoidance. Real life "homophobes" or at least what they are called are just prejudiced. Unless "homophobe" is someone who gets touched by a homosexual and cowers in fear but I'm not sure if that itself is prejudice but is a misunderstanding like any other phobia.


Yeah, the word "phobia" is used regarding words like "arachnophobia" or "acrophobia" which are very different kinds of things from homophobia - things like those don't usually take the form of hate.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

LovesThinking said:


> Pretty sure bi people can face homophobia too:
> 
> The Bisexual Index | What is Biphobia?
> 
> >.>


It might be a combination of ****/heterophobia, but it is neither one nor the other. Biphobia is its own thing and deserves its own title just as bisexual deserves it's own title. Bisexual is completely different from being straight and completely different from being homosexual. It fits neither category, sooo it's the same concept >.> Biphobia is not homophobia. Not dating bisexual people would be technically classified as BIPHOBIA. BI-BI now


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## Grainy (Jul 2, 2013)

What would be a non-homophobic reason to refuse to date a bisexual person? I'm curious.

EDIT: And yes, I acknowledge that homophobic might not be the best word. My question still stands, why is it relevant whether the person is straight, gay, bi, pan or something else as long as they're in love with you?


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

::Regrets stepping into this land mind::

What if one is accepting and nonjudgmental of their homosexual, bisexual friends but isn't attracted to them romantically? Am I homophobic/biphobic? Just because I don't want to date someone based on their sexual preference, do I hate them? Am I prejudiced? I don't think so, but if that's the label thrust upon me that's okay, people will think whatever.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

LovesThinking said:


> Pretty sure bi people can face homophobia too:
> 
> The Bisexual Index | What is Biphobia?
> 
> >.>


Exactly your right!

This quote from that link resonates I have heard this several times from straight & gay people...... 


> "you're either straight, gay or lying"


I answered depends on the reason.

That said I usually tell someone I am interested in pretty quickly I am bi, because it is a deal breaker for some people (and I am ok with that -to each their own-). So I can't say I personally "hatted" on when someone who is either straight or gay does not want to date me because I am bi.* I don't want anyone who does not want me.*

So does it bug me as a bi person, no. I am really not into victimizing myself.

But is the topic real, & relevant, yes. 

I think maybe a reason a lot of people don't hear bi people complain about it as much is because I think a lot of bi people in general are either ambivalent or indifferent in general in many areas of life in terms of definitions, politics, lobbying etc etc.


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## Squirrel (Jun 14, 2014)

No, it's not homophobic. People these days just throw that word around not even really knowing what homophobic really means; just like "racism."


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Grainy said:


> What would be a non-homophobic reason to refuse to date a bisexual person? I'm curious.
> 
> EDIT: And yes, I acknowledge that homophobic might not be the best word. My question still stands, why is it relevant whether the person is straight, gay, bi, pan or something else as long as they're in love with you?


I honestly can't think of any reason to rule out all bi people that isn't at least implicitly homophobic or biphobic. Bi people don't look any different from straight or gay people. I mean, there are plenty of reasons with regards to not dating based on race, sex, or gender identity that aren't racist, sexist, or transphobic simply because they look different and it may not be someone's cup of tea. But bi men really aren't that much different from straight men except they like other men as well.

The most rational reason I can think of is that they could discover later in life that they're gay and leave you, but even that's based on a long-held stereotype about bi men really being gay men in denial. And generally, there are signs if that's going to happen.

I mean, personally, I'd be more predisposed to date someone if they were bi, because they'd be more likely to understand my experience. But the only sexual orientation that's a dealbreaker for me is straight men and gay women, for obvious reasons.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Based on the number of reasons that straight women often won't date bi men, ''homophobic'' isn't the first word comes to mind. They are generally otherwise not, even supportive of gay rights.

Jealousy and insecurity seem to be more specific driving factors, or the perception that the man isn't 'manly' enough which can tie in with homophobia but more specifically relates to not feeling adequately female in relation to him.

As for straight men dating bi women-l hardly see the same reactions.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Grainy said:


> What would be a non-homophobic reason to refuse to date a bisexual person? I'm curious.


Maybe they're unattractive or stupid.

Maybe they're too far apart in age.

Maybe they have different morals or religious views.

edit:



Lady O.W. Bro said:


> or the perception that the man isn't 'manly' enough which can tie in with homophobia but more specifically relates to not feeling adequately female in relation to him.


This was the first thing that came to my mind, too. Some women view bisexual men as less masculine - and maybe they aren't attracted to the idea of a man that isn't 100% masculine (does such a man exist?)



Lady O.W. Bro said:


> As for straight men dating bi women-l hardly see the same reactions.


It's okay if women are masculine, but it's not okay if men are feminine.



Madonna said:


> Girls can wear jeans
> And cut their hair short
> Wear shirts and boots
> 'Cause it's OK to be a boy
> ...


Such anti-feminine hatred in Western society.


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## Theology (Apr 2, 2014)

Yes it is 100%


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

Hmmmm I did not vote because I think there is probably some **** or bi phobia, but I can't think of every possible reason, so I don't feel mental confident saying "always" (I usually prefer to always save some room for doubt). Now, I get the feeling that your friend may not be obvious about being bi or ****-phobic, but your friend does seem to feel uncomfortable with the idea of dating someone who fits their sex preference solely because they think the same sex is attractive as well. To me, that sounds like a judgment against bi-sexuals. Maybe she feels "uneasy" about it or maybe she feels that she can't let a bit man alone with anyone (okay, there is that whole, silly "straight men and straight woman can't be friends" thing and the semi-related "men wanna bang anything that moves" thing, so I guess it could be immaturity or sexism instead of bi/****-phobia), so it sound pretty likely that there may be some unconscious or internized fear of bisexuals.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

so I'm a dude.

I start dating a lady who says she's bi on the second date. 

eventually I find myself in bed with two women. 

does this make me a homophobe?

one of the bi ladies thinks two guys kissing is disgusting and she doesn't want to see it.

is this homophobic? 

I don't like watching two guys kissing, but I can turn and walk away. does this make me a homophobe?


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## aeralin (Jul 11, 2014)

Sellok said:


> How is being bisexual relevant to whether you would date someone or not? Maybe I have a strange reaction or something, but straight people are just as capable of lying or cheating, that association with bisexual people doesn't seem to be particularly founded.


It isn't relevant at all. If they are dating you, they have their own reasons. However, I know many women who identify as bisexual. Those that are lesbians, are really hesitant to the point of "I will not date you" or "I think we should break up" after learning it, if you weren't completely honest from the get-go. Males seem more open, to the point I think it might even be a fetish, with their openness to have open-relationships with them (as long as it's a girl). Bi-sexual stereotypes are rarely positive. In fact I can't think of one.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Diligent Procrastinator said:


> I made a very valid point since my first post. People have preferences. Some may be due to prejudice, others may be be due to fear, religion, ignorance, statistics (such as cheating probabilities, or std's like you said, or whatever other statistic they worry about) or whatever other reason they have. That's my point of view and it doesn't really matter if the reason someone will not date a bisexual is due to prejudice or not. They will not date you, so what does the reason matter? Move on. And like you said, it's no skin off your nose.... So... again... Why does the reason matter? There is no reason at all that could justify someone not dating any bisexuals that isn't based on prejudice. Any reason at all that you may have to not date any x type of person is automatically based on some type of prejudice.
> 
> Also, opinions cannot be invalid, and that is my final answer.


Opinions cannot be invalid, but arguments can if they do not address the point at hand.

I care because I was asked the question, and it's my obligation to provide an answer to the best of my ability. And if you believe that the reasons to rule out any group of people in terms of dating are based in prejudice, and that biphobia is prejudice against bisexual people, then it would follow that you believe that people who rule out bisexual people are doing so for biphobic reasons.


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

My friends who are straight and are dating bisexual partners all have the exact same issue:

Trust.

They have a harder time trusting a bisexual, because now they are attracted to two genders instead of just one. Now when their boyfriend is going out to "hang with the guy," they wonder.

---

I know more females dating bisexual men than I do know males dating bisexual woman--so my observation is more skewed, but it seems that the bisexual men are more likely to cheat with other men, because well... they are men, and are sexual beings, so it's much easier. Whereas bisexual woman are more for the relationship, so they don't cheat as much--this based on people in their 20s, when sex is a bigger thing for most men than is for most woman.

I don't have any personal opinion on the matter; that's just from my limited observation.

As for OTHER people, I don't see what's so bad about not wanting to date someone because of their sexual orientation.... We don't date people because of their hair color--their face--their weight--their personality--their religion--their political stances--their moral stances--their income--their views on children--their views on marriage--where they live--where they don't want to live--their tastes--their hygiene--their intelligence--their height--their teeth--their family background--their expressiveness--their extroversion--their introversion--their race--etc. What would make sexual orientation any more or less of a reasonable turn on/off? Everything a person does is a turn off, a turn off, or neutral, and it is all different for everyone. 

How come when someone says, "I like a blonde/brunette/red head/etc," no one flips out and says, "You're phobic against X hair color!" Because it sounds so silly.

It's a common study that children raised in a house of one race will often be attracted to that race growing up, and not attracted to most any other race. That is a very common occurrence. Does that make that person racist? No. They just have their OWN turn on and turn offs. Stop trying to standardized everything. 

If someone is attacking a homosexual because they are homosexual--then they are homophobic.
If someone is attacking a race because they are a race--then they are racist.

"Preferring" someone and "hating" someone are two entirely different things. 

I feel like people automatically put up their, "OMG, so homophobic" responses to anything that might have to do with orientation, because it is this generation's hot button topic. Who cares. Just date who you are attracted to. If we were all attracted to the exact same thing, there'd be quite an issue.


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## aeralin (Jul 11, 2014)

Sometimes I wish people would just admit their prejudice, and not downgrade it down to preference. It's the incorrect definition of the term and really immature. Preference and prejudice are not synonymous.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

aeralin said:


> Sometimes I wish people would just admit their prejudice, and not downgrade it down to preference. It's the incorrect definition of the term and really immature. Preference and prejudice are not synonymous.


Yeah.

Preference: Due to my upbringing I am more likely to date East Asians, because of a shared culture. I will tend to actively seek out those people. Note the positive connotation.

Prejudice: I won't consider dating a black person, because their race has somehow provided me with enough "information" (read: preconceived ideas about this person, likely from stereotyping and portrayals that result from mainstream society) about them that I know I wouldn't want to date them. Note the negative connotation.

Clearly not the same thing. Preferences are typically also not chosen, while prejudices can be re-evaluated and corrected with education and experience. One can also exist without the other. They are not two sides of the same coin. They do not have to be.

When you try to disguise prejudice as preference ultimately you're just plain using the wrong term and are not facing what you're really doing.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

If a person can't start their juices, by looking at a person of the same sex, why should they be marked for life as against bisexuals? There's actually articles written on straight people with homosexual thoughts, that doesn't make them automatically attracted to their own sex/gender, it just means that they may have thoughts, and they will go on dating what they always have. I don't understand why that should be looked down upon? It's like facebook. Facebook wants and promotes the idea that you should be friends with everyone on facebook, no matter how removed. But I don't know the 15 year old, who is a child of a friend I used to know, that was also friends with friends I have on facebook, and that this child also has these facebook friends too. I have good reasons for not taking up that facebook suggestion. And people have good reasons for not dating their own sex/ gender. Why should we condemn their decision?


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

aeralin said:


> Sometimes I wish people would just admit their prejudice, and not downgrade it down to preference. It's the incorrect definition of the term and really immature. Preference and prejudice are not synonymous.


How would you know if they were telling the truth or not?

Or how would it benefit you if you knew the truth of their thoughts?


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Brian1 said:


> If a person can't start their juices, by looking at a person of the same sex, why should they be marked for life as against bisexuals? There's actually articles written on straight people with homosexual thoughts, that doesn't make them automatically attracted to their own sex/gender, it just means that they may have thoughts, and they will go on dating what they always have. I don't understand why that should be looked down upon? It's like facebook. Facebook wants and promotes the idea that you should be friends with everyone on facebook, no matter how removed. But I don't know the 15 year old, who is a child of a friend I used to know, that was also friends with friends I have on facebook, and that this child also has these facebook friends too. I have good reasons for not taking up that facebook suggestion. And people have good reasons for not dating their own sex/ gender. Why should we condemn their decision?


This isn't talking about that.

The premise only applies if they fit your orientation. For example, a gay guy or a straight woman doesn't want to date bisexual men, or a straight guy or gay woman doesn't want to date bisexual women. Essentially, their sexual orientation is a dealbreaker, not their actual sex.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

Yes I meant that, sexual orientation, I don't think I had it my head. Trying to sort out all these terms and what they mean is confusing.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Torai said:


> Opinions cannot be invalid, but arguments can if they do not address the point at hand.
> 
> I care because I was asked the question, and it's my obligation to provide an answer to the best of my ability. And if you believe that the reasons to rule out any group of people in terms of dating are based in prejudice, and that biphobia is prejudice against bisexual people, then it would follow that you believe that people who rule out bisexual people are doing so for biphobic reasons.





> Some may be due to prejudice, others may be be due to fear, religion, ignorance, statistics (such as cheating probabilities, or std's like you said, or whatever other statistic they worry about) or whatever other reason they have.


it doesn't follow I think "biphobia" is the only reason.

Being prejudiced doesn't imply it is about their sexuality. They can be prejudiced against bisexuals for many reasons other than their sexual orientation.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

LovesThinking said:


> So two of my friends were arguing for hours last night over whether or not it's homophobic (if you're straight) not to date somebody bisexual. (I.e. if you're a girl, you wouldn't date a bisexual guy, and vice versa).
> 
> Do you think that it's homophobic? I'm on the fence about this, never having fancied a guy who happened to be bi myself. On one hand, if you wouldn't date them because it's founded in homophobic beliefs like "people who are attracted to the same sex are dirty," then obviously that's bad. On the other, is not dating someone purely because they're bisexual, but not inherently founded in homophobic beliefs (if such a thing is possible) inherently bad?
> 
> Thoughts? :tongue:


I don't see it as homophobic at all. It seems perfectly natural for straight people to feel better about dating people who have the same basic sexual orientation as themselves.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Torai said:


> But you still have a bigger pool, and thus higher standards. Keep in mind, this is dating. Not an established relationship.
> 
> Generally, when you don't really know someone, it's natural to shop around. Even if you didn't like 10 people of each sex, you would like 5 people, and you would still have those standards. If your date is insecure, they probably look at themselves as the bottom of the rung. Add that to the fact that they have to compete potentially with all the men of the world as well as the women, and it can be really daunting.
> 
> ...


Unless word gets around, then people avoid you like the plague.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Unless word gets around, then people avoid you like the plague.


But it still doesn't change the fact that, overall, the pool of people you could find potentially attractive is wider due to the desire not being confined to one sex or gender.

Sure, you don't like 20 people, but you still have that perceived competition. If you're an insecure girl (or guy, or anything else), you've probably got a huge scarcity mentality, and are of the mindset that you're competing for your man with 2-3 billion women in the world. If one of them sees what a great catch he is, and he sees your deficiencies, perceived or real, and she seems perfect, there's the fear that he'll leave you for one of those 2-3 billion women. Double that, and that's 4-6 billion people, far worse than the 2-3 billion. Especially if he has male friends that he hangs around a lot.


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## dartz (Jul 15, 2014)

if it's a choice, then yep having preferences is being homophobic...


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Ehh, I prefer to not deal in absolutes so I selected the third option.

But I mean, you have the right to date or not date whoever the hell you choose. 
Maybe you have homophobic *parents *and you don't want to open that can of worms. Maybe you never *met *a bisexual person. Maybe you would just prefer to date a straight/gay person the way some guys would prefer to date a redhead. Who knows.

This poll is very open-ended and very rigid in different aspects.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Diligent Procrastinator said:


> it doesn't follow I think "biphobia" is the only reason.
> 
> Being prejudiced doesn't imply it is about their sexuality. They can be prejudiced against bisexuals for many reasons other than their sexual orientation.


So, symbolic prejudice. Instead of attacking the people, attack their perceived values. There is literally no common aspect of bisexual people that applies to all of them, except their sexual orientation.

If you're uniquely prejudiced against ALL bisexual people, no matter how the individual bi person conducts themselves, I consider that biphobic. No matter how the prejudiced person tries to justify it.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Torai said:


> So, symbolic prejudice. Instead of attacking the people, attack their perceived values. There is literally no common aspect of bisexual people that applies to all of them, except their sexual orientation.
> 
> If you're uniquely prejudiced against ALL bisexual people, no matter how the individual bi person conducts themselves, I consider that biphobic. No matter how the prejudiced person tries to justify it.


Okie dokie then. There's really nothing left to say. Basically, anybody who chooses not to date someone for a valid reason is prejudiced. You win. Good night, kind sir.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Diligent Procrastinator said:


> Okie dokie then. There's really nothing left to say. Basically, anybody who chooses not to date someone for a valid reason is prejudiced. You win. Good night, kind sir.


You never _made_ a valid reason that would rule out bisexuality, based on these two factors. Is there anything common to all bisexual people except sexual orientation? Or can the sexual orientation in and of itself be incompatible with someone? That's all I'm asking.

If I avoided dating black people not because of the way they look and that simply not being my cup of tea, but because of the way I perceive most of them act, that would be racist.

I mean, if they looked different, acted different, or even shat at different times, I would concede your point. One person gave me a valid argument, not based on any real sort of prejudice, and that was based on insecurity and competition. And I saw it as a valid reason not to date someone bisexual. But the one thing that differentiates bisexuals is something that doesn't even affect the current relationship.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Okay. I found a few more valid reasons. 

The bisexual person would likely leave the person of the same sex for someone of the opposite sex. Now, this is less the idea of "bisexuals will leave the person because of individual morality", but more because there's more pressure for people to date someone of the opposite sex, and a lot of bisexual people will generally shift towards straight dating mechanics because it's more convenient on some levels. Not really prejudiced against the person themselves, but how they would react based on society.

The monosexual will not really understand the bi or pan person, and there would be a narrative divide. Gay people have it worse in some ways than bisexual people, and vice versa. Straight people often have a hard time understanding the points of view of both groups, and the divide can harm a relationship.

The reason I didn't accept the religion or statistics argument is that both don't exclude prejudice. Religion and dogma is often used to excuse prejudice. Same with statistics. They can even be manufactured in the case of reparative therapy success rates. Ignorance is often the root of prejudice, and fear as well.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

No it's not homophobic. It's homophobic to not be someone's friend or nice neighbor because they are bi, but when it comes to dating you could have concerns about them actually having a slight preference for the gender that you don't happen to be so they may drop you when finding a partner of the slightly preferred gender (in my experience, most people who are bisexual slightly prefer one or the other for long term partnerships) ...you could be worried about HIV being transmitted from a bisexual man, because HIV is still less likely to be spread from heterosexual partnerships, and even less by lesbians than two men together...you could also find a slight or not-so-slight bent towards gender ambiguity a huge sexual turn off...you could also be avoiding a specific person who labels themselves bisexual as an excuse to be insanely promiscuous and go to orgies every weekend (yes those people are a negative stereotype, but I have met them, they do exist).


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Fern said:


> Ehh, I prefer to not deal in absolutes so I selected the third option.
> 
> But I mean, you have the right to date or not date whoever the hell you choose.
> Maybe you have homophobic *parents *and you don't want to open that can of worms. Maybe you never *met *a bisexual person. Maybe you would just prefer to date a straight/gay person the way some guys would prefer to date a redhead. Who knows.
> ...


Yes thanks for pointing out that you would rather just date a GAY person and not just a straight person, because there are gays who won't get seriously involved or even date bisexuals, and can we call them homophobic, no usually they are protecting themselves emotionally from a person who they suspect may leave them to go straight.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

aeralin said:


> It isn't relevant at all. If they are dating you, they have their own reasons. However, I know many women who identify as bisexual. Those that are lesbians, are really hesitant to the point of "I will not date you" or "I think we should break up" after learning it, if you weren't completely honest from the get-go. Males seem more open, to the point I think it might even be a fetish, with their openness to have open-relationships with them (as long as it's a girl). Bi-sexual stereotypes are rarely positive. In fact I can't think of one.


Some men imagine they like bisexual or lesbian women because they fantasize about having more than woman at the time and their girlfriend or wife being cool with it. However, I remember a man in particular who got quite jealous of his bisexual gf's dalliances, even during threesomes HE could become possessive. She was batshit crazy though and one of the aforementioned "insanely promiscuous/orgies" people and probably had some kind of severe personality disorder, but still.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

fourtines said:


> No it's not homophobic. It's homophobic to not be someone's friend or nice neighbor because they are bi, but when it comes to dating you could have concerns about them actually having a slight preference for the gender that you don't happen to be so they may drop you when finding a partner of the slightly preferred gender (in my experience, most people who are bisexual slightly prefer one or the other for long term partnerships) ...you could be worried about HIV being transmitted from a bisexual man, because HIV is still less likely to be spread from heterosexual partnerships, and even less by lesbians than two men together...you could also find a slight or not-so-slight bent towards gender ambiguity a huge sexual turn off...you could also be avoiding a specific person who labels themselves bisexual as an excuse to be insanely promiscuous and go to orgies every weekend (yes those people are a negative stereotype, but I have met them, they do exist).


Thanks for condoning harmful stereotypes. You might as well avoid dating black men, since they make up a majority of the prison population.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Thanks for condoning harmful stereotypes. You might as well avoid dating black men, since they make up a majority of the prison population.


I said specific individuals who use the term bisexual to excuse xyz behavior, and again, I have known those people personally. When I lived in Raleigh back when I was about 18-20, I had quite a lot of gay and bisexual friends and dabbled in bicurious behavior, and one of my oldest and dearest friends is a beautiful pansexual T lady and I would never use harmful stereotypes to color all bisexuals, but those people do fucking exist, my god, clubs and parties are crawling with them, jesus. That's why some gays... especially lesbians, break up with or avoid "bisexual" women.

I think it's just fine to someone to try to figure out what a potential partner means by "bisexual" because it really can be thrown around so stupidly by the most vexing people for the worst reasons. I'm from the trendy bisexual girl sub-generation and spent my teens in a place where there was a huge "scene."


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

fourtines said:


> I said specific individuals who use the term bisexual to excuse xyz behavior, and again, I have known those people personally. When I lived in Raleigh back when I was about 18-20, I had quite a lot of gay and bisexual friends and dabbled in bicurious behavior, and one of my oldest and dearest friends is a beautiful pansexual T lady and I would never use harmful stereotypes to color all bisexuals, but those people do fucking exist, my god, clubs and parties are crawling with them, jesus. That's why some gays... especially lesbians, break up with or avoid "bisexual" women.
> 
> I think it's just fine to someone to try to figure out what a potential partner means by "bisexual" because it really can be thrown around so stupidly by the most vexing people for the worst reasons. I'm from the trendy bisexual girl sub-generation and spent my teens in a place where there was a huge "scene."


Now it's trendy to be pansexual! Part of why I try to avoid that label. I'm not averse to trans people, but God I hate tumblr...


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

drmiller100 said:


> so I'm a dude.
> 
> I start dating a lady who says she's bi on the second date.
> 
> ...


I actually like watching two attractive men kiss, like ...I can get emotionally (though not really sexually) captivated by romances like Brideshead Revisited (I wanted him to end up with Sebastian, ofc) and I also loved the darkly romantic Kill All Your Darlings based on a speculative historical tale involving Allan Ginsberg and Lucien Carr...I can still empathize or identify with some same sex couples in fiction, based upon the intensity of the couple itself, like wanting Charles to end up with Sebastian instead of Julia. 

I don't especially like to watch gay porn or anything though. 

I also don't like that you assume you eventually end up in bed with two women. There are people who are REALLY bisexual, and not for your entertainment, and have their relationships with men and women separately, based upon the individual and time in their life. 

Your date was probably bicurious.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Torai said:


> Now it's trendy to be pansexual! Part of why I try to avoid that label. I'm not averse to trans people, but God I hate tumblr...


My friend is not trendy. She is one of the most authentic people I have ever known. She is unique, creative and extremely brave. I can see why people would automatically roll their eyes at seeing the term, though, I get the bias, trust me, it's not based in nothing.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

fourtines said:


> I said specific individuals who use the term bisexual to excuse xyz behavior, and again, I have known those people personally. When I lived in Raleigh back when I was about 18-20, I had quite a lot of gay and bisexual friends and dabbled in bicurious behavior, and one of my oldest and dearest friends is a beautiful pansexual T lady and I would never use harmful stereotypes to color all bisexuals, but those people do fucking exist, my god, clubs and parties are crawling with them, jesus. That's why some gays... especially lesbians, break up with or avoid "bisexual" women.
> 
> I think it's just fine to someone to try to figure out what a potential partner means by "bisexual" because it really can be thrown around so stupidly by the most vexing people for the worst reasons. I'm from the trendy bisexual girl sub-generation and spent my teens in a place where there was a huge "scene."


There's a difference between someone using the label to excuse their behavior, and someone who self-identifies as bisexual being associated with a vocal minority who ruins the reputation for everyone. I've heard of so-called bisexual trend girls, but also plenty who eventually came out as lesbian, and these views do them a huge disservice. Either way, I don't feel I should be responsible for the actions of others, and have grown tired of explaining how bisexual doesn't mean 50/50 attraction, that I "need" multiple partners, or it only applies to men and women. 

And I try to take people at their word. It's not my role to police other people, something that happens far too much, both within and outside of the queer community. I've met bisexuals who came off as closeted gays, others who seemed the "curious" sort, and others who went against all stereotypes. We have enough enemies, and the last thing we need is to tear one another down and give more ammunition to the bigots.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Thanks for condoning harmful stereotypes. You might as well avoid dating black men, since they make up a majority of the prison population.


The whole "leaving for a straight relationship" has some merit, though. I would say I'm about a 50/50 split in the sexual attraction part. I cannot remember a time where I hadn't fantasized about both men and women excessively. I had a strong sex drive ever since I hit the 4th grade (and it did not help that the group of friends I was around were mostly really attractive, outgoing, and kind girls). As far as sexual orientation, the only turn off for me with regards to sexual orientation is straight men and gay women, for obvious reasons.

The romantic attraction part of me was very repressed for a long time, though. I remember being pretty bombarded with heteronormativity at a very young age, even though my family was LGBT supportive. The first sex book I read flat out said that both premarital sex and homosexuality were wrong, and that I could masturbate as long as I didn't lust, whatever that meant.

I think the biggest way I tried to hide it was by adopting sexist views towards men. Things like men aren't emotionally sensitive enough to hold a stable relationship, men only care about sex, men are too harsh and dominating, a man will emotionally abuse you, to justify my fear towards dating a man.

There's still this strong pull against men, because well, I live in the American South. If I so much as hold hands with a guy, I would be the center of attention to both bigoted conservatives and patronizing tumblr-addicted liberals who will congratulate me on my "braveness".

However, I could pretty much make out with a woman in public, and there would be no one telling me that I'm "flaunting my heterosexuality". People will see us and think, "What a cute couple", and be on their merry way. And that's really it. I can't really say that dating a woman wouldn't be more convenient.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Torai said:


> The whole "leaving for a straight relationship" has some merit, though. I would say I'm about a 50/50 split in the sexual attraction part. I cannot remember a time where I hadn't fantasized about both men and women excessively. I had a strong sex drive ever since I hit the 4th grade (and it did not help that the group of friends I was around were mostly really attractive, outgoing, and kind girls). As far as sexual orientation, the only turn off for me with regards to sexual orientation is straight men and gay women, for obvious reasons.
> 
> The romantic attraction part of me was very repressed for a long time, though. I remember being pretty bombarded with heteronormativity at a very young age, even though my family was LGBT supportive. The first sex book I read flat out said that both premarital sex and homosexuality were wrong, and that I could masturbate as long as I didn't lust, whatever that meant.
> 
> ...


I'd say my earliest sexual fantasies, interests, and experiences were strictly with women, and it wasn't until later that the *emotional* and *relationship* aspect with men started to appear. I guess you could describe it as pansexual, since I'm generally attracted to androgyny, and my relationships with women were more like lesbian relationships, but I usually tell people I'm bisexual, since it's the easiest to explain, and sometimes think queer could work, as well. 

Coming out to my exes, there was definitely a stage of readjustment, but the relationships (if you could call six month flings such) were already pretty much over by then, and would have ended one way or another. What frustrated me the most was how many people tried to convince me I was wrong, and when that didn't work, tried to highlight the "dangers" of that "lifestyle", bringing up suicide statistics, HIV rates, etc. as if heterosexuals don't have their own issues to deal with. 

Anyway, one advantage male bisexuals and homosexuals have is visibility and credibility: society doesn't tell them they simply need a vagina, that they haven't found the right woman yet, or that every man is "fluid" and therefore should be subjected to unwanted advances from the opposite sex. It comes with it's own problems, people feeling more threatened by it, and thus more violence, stigma, and vitriol from opponents in general. That's one reason why I think the community is so outspoken and proud when it comes to these things.

And yeah, being told my relationships with guys was just "messing around" was also hurtful and jeering, as if guys are only about sex, with no depth or purpose to their actions, only to be guided by primitive urges. People aren't willing to understand how two different people might have their own ideas of what a relationship should look like, or how to connect on a deeper level with someone else. I'm willing to educate them, but they also have to be willing to listen and challenge their own views.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

WamphyriThrall said:


> There's a difference between someone using the label to excuse their behavior, and someone who self-identifies as bisexual being associated with a vocal minority who ruins the reputation for everyone. I've heard of so-called bisexual trend girls, but also plenty who eventually came out as lesbian, and these views do them a huge disservice. Either way, I don't feel I should be responsible for the actions of others, and have grown tired of explaining how bisexual doesn't mean 50/50 attraction, that I "need" multiple partners, or it only applies to men and women.
> 
> And I try to take people at their word. It's not my role to police other people, something that happens far too much, both within and outside of the queer community. I've met bisexuals who came off as closeted gays, others who seemed the "curious" sort, and others who went against all stereotypes. We have enough enemies, and the last thing we need is to tear one another down and give more ammunition to the bigots.


While I appreciate your point, your attention to my detail is UTTERLY MISGUIDED, because I don't disagree with you as a whole, and as I clarified, they exist and that stereotype should never be unfairly applied to all bisexuals, but those people do exist, and it's perfectly fine to have something called BOUNDARIES with potential romantic partners. Sexual partners access the most intimate parts of yourself, physically, and often later psychologically and emotionally, and yeah, it's perfectly fine to "police" lovers if that suits you. Don't hate on your neighbor or co-worker, but yes you are allowed to use personal judgment with who touches your genitals and may have your heart.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Some men imagine they like bisexual or lesbian women because they fantasize about having more than woman at the time and their girlfriend or wife being cool with it. However, I remember a man in particular who got quite jealous of his bisexual gf's dalliances, even during threesomes HE could become possessive. She was batshit crazy though and one of the aforementioned "insanely promiscuous/orgies" people and probably had some kind of severe personality disorder, but still.


Yeah, it goes both ways.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

fourtines said:


> While I appreciate your point, your attention to my detail is UTTERLY MISGUIDED, because I don't disagree with you as a whole, and as I clarified, they exist and that stereotype should never be unfairly applied to all bisexuals, but those people do exist, and it's perfectly fine to have something called BOUNDARIES with potential romantic partners. Sexual partners access the most intimate parts of yourself, physically, and often later psychologically and emotionally, and yeah, it's perfectly fine to "police" lovers if that suits you. Don't hate on your neighbor or co-worker, but yes you are allowed to use personal judgment with who touches your genitals and may have your heart.


Go back and read your original post, about relationship preference, HIV transmission, and gender ambiguity. It's pretty outrageous.

There was no sign that you disagreed with those views, so I take it you more-or-less agree with them. 

It's hilarious how defensive some people get when called out on their BS.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Fern said:


> Yeah, it goes both ways.


Tee-hee. Goes both ways. :tongue:


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

It might be, if it's not homophobic it's just dumb.
Well homophobia is dumb as well.
So they're just dumb in any case


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Torai said:


> Tee-hee. Goes both ways. :tongue:


Like my sexual preferences!!!! Bahaha >:] I am the subtle joke queen


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Torai said:


> Now it's trendy to be pansexual! Part of why I try to avoid that label. I'm not averse to trans people, but God I hate tumblr...


What? What's wrong with being pansexual?


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Moya said:


> What? What's wrong with being pansexual?


I have nothing against pansexual people, but I hate how the tumblr community made the whole thing pretty much the equivalent of a gold star to someone's profile.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

From my understanding, homophobia is an aversion to homosexuality.

Not dating bisexual people doesn't necessarily mean that someone has an aversion to homosexuality.

So no.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Torai said:


> I have nothing against pansexual people, but I hate how the tumblr community made the whole thing pretty much the equivalent of a gold star to someone's profile.


Tumblr is a scapegoat for every undesirable social theory. I don't think people, generally speaking, say they're pansexual when they're not.

I do agree that pansexual-identified people can be incredibly annoying, though - especially when they go off preaching about how bisexuality is transphobic and pansexuals love people "for who they are, not what's between their legs!"


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## lemonfries (Jul 13, 2014)

Well I know this guy who is a complete homophobe and he's saying a girl that's bi....the only thing is, he doesn't know she's bi:') so that'll be interesting when that topic comes around the table


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vijaya (May 2, 2012)

People can say "it depends", but really, what other motivations are there for actively choosing _not _to date bisexual men other than a prejudice? When it comes to it, people (of age) can date and not date whoever they want (consensually etc etc), but to be unattracted to someone solely on the basis of their own sexuality would seem to me like there is an underlying prejudice toward bisexual people to some degree. I think it comes down to many women finding the idea of male, same-sex sexual activity as in some way 'immasculine' or effeminate, and thus find this attribute unattractive. In picturing their prospective male partner as at some point in the past (or in their own fantasies) engaging in male-male sex; the woman might find this undermining the said male's masculinity and therefore negating any possibility of a relationship. As if her male lover is being 'feminised' by bisexuality. 

This is a topic on which I comment (albeit maybe not impartially) as I, being a bisexual male, was dumped by my then girl friend when I came out as bi, purely for the reason of my bisexuality seeming 'unmanly' and in her words "disgusting". She had no problem with gay men, no problem with what other people did with other people in their own bedrooms, but when it come to the person she was in a relationship with, me, she was disgusted. She left me claiming I was secretly gay and using her as a cover for my closeted homosexuality. Actually I was in love with her in every way, but I had just found men and women attractive since the age of 12.

My 2 pence


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

vijaya said:


> People can say "it depends", but really, what other motivations are there for actively choosing _not _to date bisexual men other than a prejudice? When it comes to it, people (of age) can date and not date whoever they want (consensually etc etc), but to be unattracted to someone solely on the basis of their own sexuality would seem to me like there is an underlying prejudice toward bisexual people to some degree. I think it comes down to many women finding the idea of male, same-sex sexual activity as in some way 'immasculine' or effeminate, and thus find this attribute unattractive. In picturing their prospective male partner as at some point in the past (or in their own fantasies) engaging in male-male sex; the woman might find this undermining the said male's masculinity and therefore negating any possibility of a relationship. As if her male lover is being 'feminised' by bisexuality.
> 
> This is a topic on which I comment (albeit maybe not impartially) as I, being a bisexual male, was dumped by my then girl friend when I came out as bi, purely for the reason of my bisexuality seeming 'unmanly' and in her words "disgusting". She had no problem with gay men, no problem with what other people did with other people in their own bedrooms, but when it come to the person she was in a relationship with, me, she was disgusted. She left me claiming I was secretly gay and using her as a cover for my closeted homosexuality. Actually I was in love with her in every way, but I had just found men and women attractive since the age of 12.
> 
> My 2 pence


Well, generally, bisexual people have a preferred sex or gender, so if that's not your sex or gender, it could lead to a lot of insecurities. It's kind of like if you had a partner who really liked Korean pop stars and had a strong preference in general for Korean people, and you were very distinctly not Asian. 

I think your ex in that situation was probably being straight and insecure. As blunt as this sounds, most straight people just don't see the point in coming out for bi people. They may see it for gay people, but for bi people it's harder. I think she might have felt jealous and threatened because you admitted you liked other men. She may think you were either slowly distancing yourself from her to leave her or trying to cheat on her by coming out to her. It would be weird that she would call it gross if she's pro-gay marriage and stuff, but I don't know her, so I can't pass much judgment.

And for gay people, you're with people who have two different experiences with regards to homosexuality. A gay person has a much better reason to be insecure, because a lot of lesbian, gay, bi, pan, or queer people tend to have the thought, "Things would be so much easier if I was straight". And here's a person who could essentially be in a straight relationship and pass as straight. And being in a straight relationship, you get no homophobia directed at you for holding hands with your partner on the street. In a way, straightness is a temptation for bisexual people closer to the center and the straight end, because it's essentially a golden ticket away from a lot of forms of homophobic harassment.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Torai said:


> Well, generally, bisexual people have a preferred sex or gender, so if that's not your sex or gender, it could lead to a lot of insecurities. It's kind of like if you had a partner who really liked Korean pop stars and had a strong preference in general for Korean people, and you were very distinctly not Asian.
> 
> I think your ex in that situation was probably being straight and insecure. As blunt as this sounds, most straight people just don't see the point in coming out for bi people. They may see it for gay people, but for bi people it's harder. I think she might have felt jealous and threatened because you admitted you liked other men. She may think you were either slowly distancing yourself from her to leave her or trying to cheat on her by coming out to her. It would be weird that she would call it gross if she's pro-gay marriage and stuff, but I don't know her, so I can't pass much judgment.
> 
> And for gay people, you're with people who have two different experiences with regards to homosexuality. A gay person has a much better reason to be insecure, because a lot of lesbian, gay, bi, pan, or queer people tend to have the thought, "Things would be so much easier if I was straight". And here's a person who could essentially be in a straight relationship and pass as straight. And being in a straight relationship, you get no homophobia directed at you for holding hands with your partner on the street. In a way, straightness is a temptation for bisexual people closer to the center and the straight end, because it's essentially a golden ticket away from a lot of forms of homophobic harassment.


I don't like when people constantly feel the need to point out that bisexuals prefer one sex to the other, since 1) it's not always true, not for all bisexuals, and 2) it just seems like another spin on the whole tired "you're really gay or straight", "pick a side, already", "it's immature" arguments from monosexuals. If someone preferred the sex I wasn't, but chose to be in a relationship with me anyway, I'd feel privileged, since there was supposedly something about me that proved to be the exception. It would only be a problem if they were obviously not into me at all, and instead had their eyes (and possibly other parts) on someone else, but that's not a matter of being bisexual, and _has more to do with a lack of fidelity. _

And I'm not too sure most non-heterosexuals constantly dwell on how life would be easier if they were straight. If anything, most of us learn that our experiences as a minority group has shaped us into who we are, and wouldn't have it any other way. At least most of us that have moved past the whole self-loathing stage. I'll say it again: for males, bisexuality is really associated with homosexuality, either directly or indirectly. For females, it's the thought that they can "change" and are doing it for attention, issues with men, or boredom. 

The problem is insecurity, like others have already pointed out. By the way, no one has the right to tell someone whether or not they're bisexual, straight, gay, etc. besides the person labeling themselves. I've gotten on so many people's cases simply because they couldn't associate with someone who went by another name.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

No it's not "homophobic", and frankly, who cares if it was. It IS incredibly judgmental & intolerant to label people "homophobic" because they would choose not to date someone who has desires they find distasteful. There is no reason for anyone to HAVE to tolerate a sexual preference in a partner, as if our personal & intimate choices must be PC and not about our individual tastes. People have every right to choose a partner who aligns with their needs & moral compass, whether or not this is considered "fair". What complete idiocy to suggest this is in anyway prejudice.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

OrangeAppled said:


> No it's not "homophobic", and frankly, who cares if it was. It IS incredibly judgmental & intolerant to label people "homophobic" because they would choose not to date someone who has desires they find distasteful. There is no reason for anyone to HAVE to tolerate a sexual preference in a partner, as if our personal & intimate choices must be PC and not about our individual tastes. People have every right to choose a partner who aligns with their needs & moral compass, whether or not this is considered "fair". What complete idiocy to suggest this is in anyway prejudice.


So the intolerance is on the side of those discriminating, and not those being discriminated against?
What world do _you _live in?


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## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Exactly your right!
> 
> This quote from that link resonates I have heard this several times from straight & gay people......


My understanding is that it is more likely for a female to be bisexual, than it is for a male to be bisexual. Because biological/instinctual mate selection criteria are different, the male one more short-term and visually focused on the ability of the female to breed children, whereas the female needs to judge if the male is capable of supporting her in her period of vulnerability. The latter is a lot more flexible and seems to give rise to a more flexible sexuality.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

WamphyriThrall said:


> I don't like when people constantly feel the need to point out that bisexuals prefer one sex to the other, since 1) it's not always true, not for all bisexuals, and 2) it just seems like another spin on the whole tired "you're really gay or straight", "pick a side, already", "it's immature" arguments from monosexuals. If someone preferred the sex I wasn't, but chose to be in a relationship with me anyway, I'd feel privileged, since there was supposedly something about me that proved to be the exception. It would only be a problem if they were obviously not into me at all, and instead had their eyes (and possibly other parts) on someone else, but that's not a matter of being bisexual, and _has more to do with a lack of fidelity. _


Well, I mentioned that because generally, if you're not the sex that the bisexual in question prefers, then you have to try twice as hard to be considered just as good. There's that inequality in investment that won't go away until the later stages of the relationship, and some people don't want to deal with that.



> And I'm not too sure most non-heterosexuals constantly dwell on how life would be easier if they were straight. If anything, most of us learn that our experiences as a minority group has shaped us into who we are, and wouldn't have it any other way. At least most of us that have moved past the whole self-loathing stage. I'll say it again: for males, bisexuality is really associated with homosexuality, either directly or indirectly. For females, it's the thought that they can "change" and are doing it for attention, issues with men, or boredom.


It isn't a matter of dwelling on it or self-hating. It's a matter of, "Hey, dating someone of the opposite sex won't make me the center of attention to homophobes." If someone had the choice to not experience harassment, all things being equal, I think most people would choose not to be harassed. And that's honestly a fair insecurity with dating bisexual people.

Homophobia made a lot of people in the gay community hide their sexuality to the point that some of them adopted casual sex as a way to have fulfilling sex without being discovered. Because they wanted to keep it secret, and it's much harder to keep secret a relationship of 2 years or so than a few short flings. It's why you see the stereotype that gay people can't commit.

So, why is it so ludicrous that a bi person would hide their sexuality by preferring to date someone of the opposite sex?



> The problem is insecurity, like others have already pointed out. By the way, no one has the right to tell someone whether or not they're bisexual, straight, gay, etc. besides the person labeling themselves. I've gotten on so many people's cases simply because they couldn't associate with someone who went by another name.


I didn't deny that, but it's a complex issue. I even used the word "insecurity" in my post. Each kind of relationship has its own set of baggage, and sometimes the cons outweigh the pros. I could say that dating a bisexual person is the same as dating a straight person or a gay person, but we know that's not true. Not because of any innate differences, but because homophobia shapes a lot of behaviors. You can't honestly say that straight, gay, bi, and pan people are the same without denying that homophobia, biphobia, and panphobia exist.

There are plenty of bi people who won't date straight people, gay people, or all monosexuals. Why? Because both types of monosexuals will possibly fly off the handle and freak out if they understand you're bi. It's probably a tiny bit less with gay people, since gay people tend to know what the whole coming out process means, but it happens. Should we consider that heterophobic or homophobic?


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> No it's not "homophobic", and frankly, who cares if it was. It IS incredibly judgmental & intolerant to label people "homophobic" because they would choose not to date someone who has desires they find distasteful. There is no reason for anyone to HAVE to tolerate a sexual preference in a partner, as if our personal & intimate choices must be PC and not about our individual tastes. People have every right to choose a partner who aligns with their needs & moral compass, whether or not this is considered "fair". What complete idiocy to suggest this is in anyway prejudice.


A person can think not dating someone just because they are bisexual is homophobic while also thinking that people have the right to choose their own partners you know. The inverse of "your reasons for not dating this person are homophobic" is not "therefore you must date them!!!"


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## Eckis (Feb 7, 2013)

OrangeAppled said:


> No it's not "homophobic", and frankly, who cares if it was. It IS incredibly judgmental & intolerant to label people "homophobic" because they would choose not to date someone who has desires they find distasteful. There is no reason for anyone to HAVE to tolerate a sexual preference in a partner, as if our personal & intimate choices must be PC and not about our individual tastes. People have every right to choose a partner who aligns with their needs & moral compass, whether or not this is considered "fair". What complete idiocy to suggest this is in anyway prejudice.


I couldn't have said it better! People have every right to look for a partner who aligns with their values. It is crazy to say "you won't date me so you're discriminating against me."


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

For some reason, some people think that bisexuality = polygamy. You just have to talk with them and explain. They're usually curious, which helps. Though that may be because I don't tell people about my sexuality unless they ask, and somebody who would be curious and honest enough to ask about that would be curious enough to listen if they don't fully understand. 

To answer the question, it's not necessarily homophobic or biphobic, it's just a matter of people not understanding it.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

HumanBeing said:


> My understanding is that it is more likely for a female to be bisexual, than it is for a male to be bisexual. Because biological/instinctual mate selection criteria are different, the male one more short-term and visually focused on the ability of the female to breed children, whereas the female needs to judge if the male is capable of supporting her in her period of vulnerability. The latter is a lot more flexible and seems to give rise to a more flexible sexuality.


A part of the issue is how society views male and female bisexuals. For the longest time, people doubted if women even desired or enjoyed sex, and even now, there's not too much research on female sexuality. There's an idea that "every woman is bisexual", supported by studies that monitor reactions to various pornographic images, which is problematic since you're really taking two things, arousal and attraction, and pairing them together. It might be a better idea to study women's sexuality through other means, since what holds true for men might not always hold true for women. 

But yeah, I definitely think male sexuality is a lot less stratified than people are willing to believe. It comes as no great surprise that men themselves are their greatest enemies in this respect, since they're the ones who are responsible for a lot of the discrimination, hostility, and popular opinions regarding this topic. No surprises there, since sexuality heavily ties into things like masculinity, power, and respect. Men aren't offered as much leeway as women when it comes to showing "weakness".

When you have so many people not only unwilling to consider a possibility, but actually going out of their way to disprove that something exists, it becomes pretty obvious that the cards are stacked.


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## ENTrePreneur (Aug 7, 2013)

I just want to see the poll results...

why can't I see the poll results without voting?


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## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

WamphyriThrall said:


> A part of the issue is how society views male and female bisexuals. For the longest time, people doubted if women even desired or enjoyed sex, and even now, there's not too much research on female sexuality. There's an idea that "every woman is bisexual", supported by studies that monitor reactions to various pornographic images, which is problematic since you're really taking two things, arousal and attraction, and pairing them together. It might be a better idea to study women's sexuality through other means, since what holds true for men might not always hold true for women.


Even for men arousal != attraction. I know that from experience, because women can arouse me occasionally, but never have been really attracted to one. I suspect I am hetero-demisexual, but to be honest I can't be sure.



WamphyriThrall said:


> But yeah, I definitely think male sexuality is a lot less stratified than people are willing to believe. It comes as no great surprise that men themselves are their greatest enemies in this respect, since they're the ones who are responsible for a lot of the discrimination, hostility, and popular opinions regarding this topic. No surprises there, since sexuality heavily ties into things like masculinity, power, and respect. Men aren't offered as much leeway as women when it comes to showing "weakness".
> 
> When you have so many people not only unwilling to consider a possibility, but actually going out of their way to disprove that something exists, it becomes pretty obvious that the cards are stacked.


A lot of people seem to be insecure about their sexuality and the sexuality of others. Stereotypical sexuality for men is especially crappy, to the point that I've outright rejected it. In relationship matters (if it ever gets to that point for me) I could not possible play the role of stereotypical man, it's too forceful and emotionally crippled. I find the "women" perspective (assuming it comes from a reasonably balanced women) much more useful as inspiration.


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## purposive (Jun 4, 2013)

No, just like it's not racist to find certain races attractive.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I voted that it is, indeed, homophobic to refuse to date bisexual people just for being bisexual. It is also racist to refuse to date certain races. It seems pretty obvious and clear, and not even slightly ambiguous. I'm not really sure how there is even a debate.


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## stev (Jul 31, 2014)

I find it depressing how many people voted no or it depends.. I want to ask those people what their reasons are. Most of what I see here is ''it's a personal preference'', I don't understand that, can someone elaborate? And the thought that your bisexual partner has a 'preferred gender' that they might leave you for is absurd.

I also want to add that it is racist to have a preference for a certain race. If someone wants to date koreans becaus they like kpop, that's fetisizing of an entire race.


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## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

snail said:


> I voted that it is, indeed, homophobic to refuse to date bisexual people just for being bisexual. It is also racist to refuse to date certain races. It seems pretty obvious and clear, and not even slightly ambiguous. I'm not really sure how there is even a debate.


I think the difficulty lies in the question if it is acceptable to be homophobic or not, in many cases it is not, in this case it's like saying you don't want to date people with blond hair. People may choose to only label unacceptable cases as homophobic.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

I don't see how it could be determine that someone has a "morbid fear", distressed reaction, and anxiety disorder against homosexuals merely based on the fact that they don't want to date someone who practices being bi- sexual.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

stev said:


> I find it depressing how many people voted no or it depends.. I want to ask those people what their reasons are. Most of what I see here is ''it's a personal preference'', I don't understand that, can someone elaborate? And the thought that your bisexual partner has a 'preferred gender' that they might leave you for is absurd.
> 
> I also want to add that it is racist to have a preference for a certain race. If someone wants to date koreans becaus they like kpop, that's fetisizing of an entire race.


I did not vote because I don't like absolutes and because the "it depends" seems so neutral (I would prefer "probably" or "very probably"), but if you look at my earlier post, I did find a couple other reasons, such as sexism (men want to f*** whatever moves stereotype, so extending that to a bisexual man or bisexual any gender person with a penis that person would be insecure no matter who their partner was friends with) or immaturity ("straight men can't be friends with straight women" thing, there for bisexual partner would want to sex up everyone once they got to know them). I suppose you could say those are both biphobic, but that distrust comes from a distrust of an entire sex or distrust of people who may have some potential, however small, of being attracted to each other. So it is biphobia, but it is a biproduct of something that has them judging all people (but bisexuals would be judged the harshest/most extreme).


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Kathy Kane said:


> I don't see how it could be determine that someone has a "morbid fear", distressed reaction, and anxiety disorder against homosexuals merely based on the fact that they don't want to date someone who practices being bi- sexual.


Tell me, when did you make the choice to be straight? Because I can remember multiple times I tried to make the choice, but couldn't. I remember having fleeting thoughts that cutting my balls off was a viable solution.

People like you are lucky, and a lot of people who are gay or bi, especially as teenagers, would give a lot to be in your shoes.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

stev said:


> I find it depressing how many people voted no or it depends.. I want to ask those people what their reasons are. Most of what I see here is ''it's a personal preference'', I don't understand that, can someone elaborate? And the thought that your bisexual partner has a 'preferred gender' that they might leave you for is absurd.
> 
> I also want to add that it is racist to have a preference for a certain race. If someone wants to date koreans becaus they like kpop, that's fetisizing of an entire race.


Because it does depend. Like @Mr Meepers I don't like to deal in subjective absolutes. There is no way to say that it is _always _homophobia, especially since it could very well be biphobia and that's a different thing entirely.

And I disagree that having a preference for a certain race is fetishization. Having a preference can very well just be aesthetic. For example, if you're very attracted to green eyes, it would be likely that you would have a preference for white people because they're the most likely to have green eyes. If you like Afro-textured hair, of course you're going to go for black people. However, if you correlate personality traits you like with a certain race (i.e. "I want to date an Asian girl because they're submissive and demure!") that is absolutely racist and fetishizing.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Kathy Kane said:


> I don't see how it could be determine that someone has a "morbid fear", distressed reaction, and anxiety disorder against homosexuals merely based on the fact that they don't want to date someone who practices being bi- sexual.


Who "practices" being "bi- sexual"?
Bisexuality is just as valid as homosexuality (read: it's _one word_). And it's not a practice, it's an inherent attraction.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

stev said:


> I find it depressing how many people voted no or it depends.. I want to ask those people what their reasons are. Most of what I see here is ''it's a personal preference'', I don't understand that, can someone elaborate? And the thought that your bisexual partner has a 'preferred gender' that they might leave you for is absurd.
> 
> I also want to add that it is racist to have a preference for a certain race. If someone wants to date koreans becaus they like kpop, that's fetisizing of an entire race.


One may not date a bisexual person because of the social stigma depending on location & circumstance, but at the same time one may have no bias towards or against bisexuals at all. If the social condition wouldn't exist the same person would date the bisexual.

In this case it is not homophobia, its peer pressure from a homophobic society. It doesn't make one a homophone  just spineless. If dating a bisexual would carry the death sentence, then it would make the other person: smart....etc.
*
It depends on the exact reasons why*

I voted the third option and I dated a bisexual woman for years in college. She likes looking at woman's bums  and saying stuff like "I'd tap that" etc :3 I found it cute, she is one of the very few awesome ppl I know.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Moya said:


> Who "practices" being "bi- sexual"?
> Bisexuality is just as valid as homosexuality (read: it's _one word_). And it's not a practice, it's an inherent attraction.


Dammit. I thought I could get skill levels like in Skyrim.

"You have sucked yet another dick. 

Homosexuality increased to 44!"


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

Torai said:


> Tell me, when did you make the choice to be straight? Because I can remember multiple times I tried to make the choice, but couldn't. I remember having fleeting thoughts that cutting my balls off was a viable solution.
> 
> People like you are lucky, and a lot of people who are gay or bi, especially as teenagers, would give a lot to be in your shoes.


What does any of that have to do with what I said?


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

Moya said:


> Who "practices" being "bi- sexual"?


Everyone who claims to be bi-sexual. Anyone can be attracted to other humans regardless of gender. It is only in practice that people choose to differ in their sexuality. 


> And it's not a practice, it's an inherent attraction.


There is zero evidence to support such a claim. Heterosexuality is the inherent characteristic of humans. Everything else is not inherent. Those not inherent stem from issues with physical, emotional, chemical, environmental, or other factors.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Kathy Kane said:


> What does any of that have to do with what I said?


You implied it was a choice, an action you can take. The word practice implies that it is an action you actively take. Yeah, screwing someone is a choice, I'll give you that one.

But the feelings, those were never a choice. Most of my male friends have told me that they're straight as an arrow. Not even the slightest bit bicurious. And, no, I didn't ask them that to have sex with them. I asked them that because I wanted to compare and contrast someone else's experience with my own. I've had to rationalize the feelings I've had for male friends away at a very young age. Trust me, I have very good impulse control, and it isn't just about sex. I felt exactly the way a girl I liked would make me feel, but only it was a guy.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Torai said:


> You implied it was a choice, an action you can take. The word practice implies that it is an action you actively take. Yeah, screwing someone is a choice, I'll give you that one.
> 
> But the feelings, those were never a choice. Most of my male friends have told me that they're straight as an arrow. Not even the slightest bit bicurious. And, no, I didn't ask them that to have sex with them. I asked them that because I wanted to compare and contrast someone else's experience with my own. I've had to rationalize the feelings I've had for male friends away at a very young age. Trust me, I have very good impulse control, and it isn't just about sex. I felt exactly the way a girl I liked would make me feel, but only it was a guy.


I respect power. 

It takes power to figure that out about yourself, and it takes power to be honest, and it takes power to be open about it.

Good for you.

I like dating bisexual women. I am pretty open about that, and because I am open about it, ladies who are closet bi sometimes approach me.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Kathy Kane said:


> Everyone who claims to be bi-sexual. Anyone can be attracted to other humans regardless of gender. It is only in practice that people choose to differ in their sexuality.


Elaborate, please, because it seems like you're saying everyone is bisexual, but people still choose to be bisexual.



> There is zero evidence to support such a claim. Heterosexuality is the inherent characteristic of humans. Everything else is not inherent. Those not inherent stem from issues with physical, emotional, chemical, environmental, or other factors.


And you have zero evidence to support your claim that they stem from issues, but frankly, I think it's irrelevant either way. Who the fuck cares if it stems from "issues" if it doesn't actually cause any issues in a person's life? Homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, etc. - none of those are harmful, the only problems they cause are potentially social/familial.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

Torai said:


> You implied it was a choice, an action you can take.


All I saw was a pity party. Everyone has struggles, sacrifices, and suffering. Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows just because we don't choose a different sexuality. 

Bi-sexuality is an action and choice. The term implies sexual interaction, which is always a choice (except in rape, as I'm sure someone will point out if I don't.) An attraction is uncontrollable, what we do with that attraction is definitely conscious and a choice. 



> But the feelings, those were never a choice.


Everyone has feelings and they don't determine how we will live our lives. If everyone acted on anger and killed other people then life would be chaotic. People who have a hard time controlling their anger go to anger management. I don't see why it would be any different for someone who desires to act on their every sexual feeling as well. 



> Most of my male friends have told me that they're straight as an arrow. Not even the slightest bit bicurious. And, no, I didn't ask them that to have sex with them. I asked them that because I wanted to compare and contrast someone else's experience with my own. I've had to rationalize the feelings I've had for male friends away at a very young age. Trust me, I have very good impulse control, and it isn't just about sex. I felt exactly the way a girl I liked would make me feel, but only it was a guy.


I seriously doubt heterosexual men have never seen the beauty in other men. What they mean is they have chosen to never act out on their every feeling, as though it would be healthy to do so. Taking an attraction to the level of sexual interaction is a choice we make, it has nothing to do with being unable to choose the natural human sexuality. If it is then there is something wrong physically, emotionally, chemically, etc.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Kathy Kane said:


> All I saw was a pity party. Everyone has struggles, sacrifices, and suffering. Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows just because we don't choose a different sexuality.
> 
> Bi-sexuality is an action and choice. The term implies sexual interaction, which is always a choice (except in rape, as I'm sure someone will point out if I don't.) An attraction is uncontrollable, what we do with that attraction is definitely conscious and a choice.
> 
> ...


Wrong. You keep saying that word.

I don't think it means what you think it means.

Literally, what is wrong about having sex with someone of the same sex? Not "What is unsafe?", not "Who disapproves of it?", not whether it's "normal". What is a moral transgression that applies to homosexuality, that does not take one specific interpretation of a religious text into the picture? Not only a religious text, but a religious text that can be used to justify slavery, oppression of women, the stoning of adulterers, the forced marriage of a man to his brother's widow, and other things.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

Moya said:


> Elaborate, please, because it seems like you're saying everyone is bisexual, but people still choose to be bisexual.


Everyone is heterosexual by nature. Finding humans of the same gender beautiful and/or attractive has nothing to do with being a different sexuality. It is only in the action that people choose something other than heterosexuality, which is the natural characteristic of humans. 



> And you have zero evidence to support your claim that they stem from issues, but frankly, I think it's irrelevant either way. Who the fuck cares if it stems from "issues" if it doesn't actually cause any issues in a person's life? Homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality, etc. - none of those are harmful, the only problems they cause are potentially social/familial.


There have been many studies done that show evidence of issues, as the cause of choosing different sexuality. There is zero evidence that it is inherent. If it were then procreation would happen regardless between humans. 

What someone chooses to do with their life is their problem. All I did was remark on the question from the OP, which had nothing to do with where you took the conversation.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Kathy Kane said:


> Everyone is heterosexual by nature.





Kathy Kane said:


> There have been many studies done that show evidence of issues, as the cause of choosing different sexuality. There is zero evidence that it is inherent.


Oh, word?


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Kathy Kane said:


> Everyone is heterosexual by nature. Finding humans of the same gender beautiful and/or attractive has nothing to do with being a different sexuality. It is only in the action that people choose something other than heterosexuality, which is the natural characteristic of humans.


Anyone can find another person aesthetically appealing -- as you said, beautiful and/or attractive. You're right, that has nothing to do with your sexual orientation. Wanting to fuck people of your same gender, _that _has something to do with your sexual orientation. I'm sure you don't feel sexual attraction to everyone you think is good-looking, but unless you're on the asexual spectrum you're likely familiar with what it feels like to be _attracted to_ someone, correct?

There's a lot of inconsistency in your argument. _Glaring _inconsistencies. One of them is that you claim that everyone is heterosexual and you choose to be something else -- another is that you claim that homosexuality/bisexuality are a result of issues "physically, emotionally, chemically". That would imply that having a minority sexuality would not necessarily be choice, but a result of unfortunate circumstances. Please, choose an argument and stick with it.



> There have been many studies done that show evidence of issues, as the cause of choosing different sexuality. There is zero evidence that it is inherent. If it were then procreation would happen regardless between humans.
> 
> What someone chooses to do with their life is their problem. All I did was remark on the question from the OP, which had nothing to do with where you took the conversation.


Can you provide some of these studies?

I was under the impression that humans had evolved past the point of acting purely on instinct and the drive to survive and procreate. Funny that.


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## Kathy Kane (Dec 3, 2013)

Torai said:


> Wrong. You keep saying that word.
> 
> I don't think it means what you think it means.


Of course I do. Though, I may not be going off some new definition that placates people who go against nature. 



> Literally, what is wrong about having sex with someone of the same sex? Not "What is unsafe?", not "Who disapproves of it?", not whether it's "normal". What is a moral transgression that applies to homosexuality, that does not take one specific interpretation of a religious text into the picture? Not only a religious text, but a religious text that can be used to justify slavery, oppression of women, the stoning of adulterers, the forced marriage of a man to his brother's widow, and other things.


It has to do with a healthy society. When something unnatural is accepted by society it has a negative impact on our attitude as a whole. Such accepting attitudes have always been a factor in the destruction of society. It also breaks down the importance of procreation, which is necessary to sustain life. It would be the same as society encouraging sterilization (which is also happening), such a state would limit society and all the positive results of diversity among intelligence, innovation, action, etc. Another thing it does is degrade the male and female interactions and connections. Having society segregated into genders that also include sexuality interaction would make our society deconstruct the healthy aspects and destroy our ability to function properly. 

On a personal level there are always problems that arise when sex is involved in a relationship. Sex is one of the top three reasons for divorce for a reason. If a person wants to take on the problems involved with having sex with their same gender, then that is their own decision. I don't presume to think I could have a say in what someone chooses for themselves. Though, as I said there are consequences to the actions.


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## slothpop (Mar 19, 2014)

There is a difference between not dating a certain type of person and refusing to date a certain type of person. If you refuse to date someone who you would otherwise have no qualms with purely on the basis of their sexuality, then I guess that could be considered homophobic. And while I would probably recommend that someone change their perspective on sexuality if this were the case, in the end, you shouldn't feel that you have to date people to whom you are not attracted.


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## spylass (Jan 25, 2014)

Kathy Kane said:


> Everyone is heterosexual by nature. Finding humans of the same gender beautiful and/or attractive has nothing to do with being a different sexuality. It is only in the action that people choose something other than heterosexuality, which is the natural characteristic of humans.
> 
> There have been many studies done that show evidence of issues, as the cause of choosing different sexuality. There is zero evidence that it is inherent. If it were then procreation would happen regardless between humans.
> 
> What someone chooses to do with their life is their problem. All I did was remark on the question from the OP, which had nothing to do with where you took the conversation.


Modern science is actually pretty much entirely is in favor of the belief that being gay is not a choice, but a result of biology. 

Gay brains are inherently different from straight brains. _
"Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men" _
What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME
_
"In homosexuals, brain activity most closely matched that of heterosexuals of the other sex."_
Gay Men, Straight Women Have Similar Brains

Women's sexuality is more flexible than that of men. Women can often be aroused by other women, even when they identify as straight, and even if they themselves are not aware of their arousal. 
Study Suggests Difference Between Female And Male Sexuality -- ScienceDaily

Another finding in the biological basis for homosexuality 
Biological basis for homosexuality. The fraternal birth order explanation could be bad news for gay people.

The likelihood of being gay increases by about 33 percent with each additional older brother. The theory behind this is that with every son that a woman has, during pregnancy her body produces antigens to fight the foreign male hormones. With every son, the antigen is stronger, and quickly attacks the male hormones, which ends up altering the brain chemistry of the son to more similar to that of a female. 

And for all the people who argue that homosexuality isn't natural, and only occurs in humans- that's notion is outdated and disproven. 

Many animals in the wild exhibit homosexual behavior (most mammals and birds have instances of homosexuality). Most wouldn't argue that animals make this "choice". Elephants, penguins, black swans, rabbits, giraffes, rams, and many more animals have homosexual members of their species. 

Yale Scientific Magazine – Do Animals Exhibit Homosexuality?

List of animals who commonly display homosexual behavior 
List of animals displaying homosexual behavior - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 
*
Homosexuality/Bisexuality/any kind of not hetero-normative sexuality is just part of the neuro-variation that you find in humans. 

So when you say "everyone is heterosexual by nature" you're flat out wrong. Please don't try to use the word "studies" to make it seem like science is on your side. It isn't. 
*
You think there is "zero evidence" because you haven't done any research onto this topic, clearly.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Kathy Kane said:


> It has to do with a healthy society. When something unnatural is accepted by society it has a negative impact on our attitude as a whole. Such accepting attitudes have always been a factor in the destruction of society. It also breaks down the importance of procreation, which is necessary to sustain life. It would be the same as society encouraging sterilization (which is also happening), such a state would limit society and all the positive results of diversity among intelligence, innovation, action, etc. Another thing it does is degrade the male and female interactions and connections. Having society segregated into genders that also include sexuality interaction would make our society deconstruct the healthy aspects and destroy our ability to function properly.
> 
> On a personal level there are always problems that arise when sex is involved in a relationship. Sex is one of the top three reasons for divorce for a reason. If a person wants to take on the problems involved with having sex with their same gender, then that is their own decision. I don't presume to think I could have a say in what someone chooses for themselves. Though, as I said there are consequences to the actions.


In the psychological community, there has been extensive research on the issue. In fact, homosexuality used to be considered a mental illness, until the 70's when psychologists finally said that under the definition of mental illness, that they couldn't ethically say that homosexuality was an illness. It didn't objectively fit the definition.

There is a diversity of interactions between male and female. Not all interactions of value are sexual, and I think it's slightly objectifying to say that.

Many gay couples desire to have children, and there has been tons of literature in psychology that says that they make just as fit parents as straight couples do. 

Humans are a species which invests lots of importance in individual offspring. Other species, like fish, tend to ditch their kids. In fact, humans have the longest amount of care they give to their offspring of all species.

Raw procreation has never been good. We have always had limits on procreation in some form, whether it has been abstinence before marriage, forced marriages in case of pregnancy... Birth control as a concept is nothing new. 

What is important is that humans have a long time to raise their offspring, the resources necessary to do so, and the desire to do so. If you're a kid, it's going to hurt a hell of a lot more if you're unwanted, even if your parents are straight. Nearly any psychologist would say that with a kid who's unwanted by their straight parents, and a kid who is wanted by their gay parents, the latter is almost always more preferable. And this is an important question to breach in terms of gay parenthood and adoption.

Natural is a very subjective word. We've used the natural argument with regards to sex before, and that was when we tried to keep interracial marriages from happening. You know, you could use the higher AIDS rates of minorities as a justification for this.

But with regards to natural, humans aren't the only species that has gay sex. In fact, nearly every mammal species has done it in some form or another. Now, this isn't a justification. It's a fact. Many species also use rape as a method of mating. In fact, male otters have been known to rape baby seals to death.

However, it makes the point that natural does not mean good. This is a terrible argument both conservatives and ecofeminists alike tend to make. In fact, most of the stuff you do is unnatural. We eat processed food, use cars, and we type our posts on the computer right now.

With regards to natural as counterintuitive, many rules of the universe are counterintuitive. We think of touching as a system of joining, but at the atomic level, it's a system of repulsion. We receive the magnetic impulses from electron clouds that push us away from the object.

But the crumbling of society is not a moral issue. In fact, if society justifies the driving to suicide of many people, including gay teens, maybe it should crumble.


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## Stasis (May 6, 2014)

I have no problem stating that I prefer my partner to be heterosexual and it's extremely unlikely that I would ever date a bisexual person, but why do I have to be labeled phobic?


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

drmiller100 said:


> A bit of bigotry in this generalization.
> 
> Tea party is NOT republican, just like most call communism different than democrat.


Well, to be honest, Tea Party's Republican, at least the way US politics represents them. To say that isn't true is like saying the Westboro Baptist Church isn't Christian, or that Andrea Dworkin isn't a feminist because she's a misandrist. It's a No True Scotsman.


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## emmamadden (Jul 7, 2013)

As a bi person myself, I would prefer if people didn't discriminate. I think "well there'd be too much competition" is a stupid excuse. Not sure if this applies to most bi people, but I typically seek for one gender at a time. Wanted to date a man, so I'm currently dating a man. It's going great, but for whatever reason this doesn't work out in the end, I've decided that I'll want to exclusively seek women since my last relationships have been with guys. By the way, these people didn't care at all about the fact that I'm bi. They weren't worried about any competition or anything. It's not that hard to date a bi person.


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

Well yeah. Biphobic anyway. If someone's sole reason, their ONLY reason, for not dating a bisexual person is that they're bisexual I fail to see how it's not due to some prejudice on their part. Maybe not the actively hostile kind but definitely the passive/ambient kind.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

It's due to the reason. If it's because of being freaked out by the idea of being with someone not heterosexual it's homophobic, but if it's due to being worried they'll change half way or something and leave you then it's being insecure.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Not necessarily. I mean, bisexuality/pansexuality means different things to different people. One person's bisexuality isn't another's. For example, if someone's preference isn't of your gender, then you might have to deal with insecurity based on that. Not necessarily that they'll leave you, but that they're settling.


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

Torai said:


> For example, if someone's preference isn't of your gender, then you might have to deal with insecurity based on that. Not necessarily that they'll leave you, but that they're settling.





tine said:


> but if it's due to being worried they'll change half way or something and leave you then it's being insecure.


In both of these cases the problem is insecurity right? Like it would be present regardless of the other person's sexual orientation? So why even mention it? Unless the insecurity is increased BECAUSE of the person's sexual orientation in which case its kiiiiiiiinda prejudicial again.


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## Zero11 (Feb 7, 2010)

Doesn´t matter because these liberal low-lifes consider everything that goes against their view as a immediate threat and therefore call you Homophobic.


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## Sir Cat Mittenbuns (Apr 1, 2014)

Like a lot of people here, I think it depends on the reason. Being bisexual myself, I've noticed two different reactions:

The first is inherently biphobic/homophobic. A lot of my (heterosexual) friends said they would never date a bisexual, or at least someone who has dated someone of the same sex in the past, merely because the thought of their partner having kissed someone of the same gender seemed repulsive to them.

The other is, like a lot of people mentioned, a sign of insecurity. I've been with a guy for more than a year now, and I decided I would be honest about my sexuality very early on. I could have easily not said a thing and he never would have noticed, but I felt it would be fair for him to know (and also, I wouldn't have wanted to date someone who was homophobic anyway). He didn't seem to mind at first, but after a month or two, the knowledge that I was bisexual started making him doubt: he was worried I would dump him for another woman and was thus unsure if he should invest himself fully into the relationship or not. It haunted him. We almost broke up around that time, but things settled when he started trusting my feelings more. He teases me about it from time to time, but everything's good now.

Being bisexual or pansexual doesn't mean that the world is your playground. It just means that whatever's between the other person's legs doesn't matter to you. In fact, I find that although I find a lot of people beautiful, I'm attracted to very, very few people (far less than many of my heterosexual friends, in fact). Bi/pansexuals aren't necessarily more likely to cheat either, contrary to what a lot of people seem to think. 

However, unlike what many people said previously, I don't think personal preference has anything to do with refusing to date bisexuals. You could be attracted to someone who just keeps quiet about their (bi)sexuality, but the fact you don't know about it doesn't make them any less bisexual. Would you stop being attracted to them once they told you? If so, then I believe that is a form of homophobia/biphobia.

...To sum it up, if you're unsure about dating a bisexual person, just ask yourself what your reason is. If it's the second reason, my advice to you would be to trust your partner more, and to be more self-confident. If your reason is the first one, then you're being homophobic.


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

Sir Cat Mittenbuns said:


> Like a lot of people here, I think it depends on the reason. Being bisexual myself, I've noticed two different reactions:
> 
> The first is inherently biphobic/homophobic. A lot of my (heterosexual) friends said they would never date a bisexual, or at least someone who has dated someone of the same sex in the past, merely because the thought of their partner having kissed someone of the same gender seemed repulsive to them.


Is that any kind of phobic though? You can't help your inherent reactions to something right? I know a guy who will get up and leave the room if he sees two men holding hands or (god forbid) making out but he will fight vociferously for their right to do so. I'd say such a disinclination/disgust is chalked up to nature, something inherent, or close to it rather than prejudice which is usually faulty cognition. I mean I can easily see the one leading to another ("I find two guys kissing disgusting so I want it banned everywhere") but that isn't necessarily always the course.


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## Sir Cat Mittenbuns (Apr 1, 2014)

Fredward said:


> Is that any kind of phobic though? You can't help your inherent reactions to something right? I know a guy who will get up and leave the room if he sees two men holding hands or (god forbid) making out but he will fight vociferously for their right to do so. I'd say such a disinclination/disgust is chalked up to nature, something inherent, or close to it rather than prejudice which is usually faulty cognition. I mean I can easily see the one leading to another ("I find two guys kissing disgusting so I want it banned everywhere") but that isn't necessarily always the course.


Perhaps my choice of word wasn't the best, but I understand your point. Actually, I've had this kind of talk with a colleague recently. She thought of herself as not being homophobic, although the sight of two women or men "acting like lovers" disgusted her. To be honest, I still think that this kind of attitude is homophobic in a way, even though the person might agree that homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else. I mean, homophobia encompasses both negative feelings and attitudes towards homosexuality, right? So I would say that although your acquaintance and my colleague harbour no negative feelings towards homosexuals/bisexuals/pansexuals (etc.), the fact they still act (or react) negatively to them makes them mildly homophobic. (In my opinion, of course.)


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

Sir Cat Mittenbuns said:


> Perhaps my choice of word wasn't the best, but I understand your point. Actually, I've had this kind of talk with a colleague recently. She thought of herself as not being homophobic, although the sight of two women or men "acting like lovers" disgusted her. To be honest, I still think that this kind of attitude is homophobic in a way, even though the person might agree that homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else. I mean, homophobia encompasses both negative feelings and attitudes towards homosexuality, right? So I would say that although your acquaintance and my colleague harbour no negative feelings towards homosexuals/bisexuals/pansexuals (etc.), the fact they still act (or react) negatively to them makes them mildly homophobic. (In my opinion, of course.)


Yeah I can see where you're coming from. I guess I just have this feeling|thought|behavior divide, while being cognizant of how they influence each other ofc. People can feel whatever they want to and I often see behaviour as just ex-post facto actualization, so usually my problem is with people's reasoning. And the primary problem there is that people often seem to be unable to divorce their reasoning from 1) how they feel and 2) how they/society has 'always' behaved. Nor do they seem to realize how the three are interconnected and then attribute a specific thought (like homophobia) or behaviour or feeling to some autonomous-it-just-is-this-way-ness and... ~blink~ What were we talking about again?

But yes I can see why you'd consider the disgust factor as a form of homophobia, for me though it's not the important part.


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Fredward said:


> In both of these cases the problem is insecurity right? Like it would be present regardless of the other person's sexual orientation? So why even mention it? Unless the insecurity is increased BECAUSE of the person's sexual orientation in which case its kiiiiiiiinda prejudicial again.


No, ones insecurity BECAUSE of the sexual orientation, the other is insecurity BECAUSE of worrying they'll go off with someone else easier than someone straight i.e. more options available.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Fredward said:


> In both of these cases the problem is insecurity right? Like it would be present regardless of the other person's sexual orientation? So why even mention it? Unless the insecurity is increased BECAUSE of the person's sexual orientation in which case its kiiiiiiiinda prejudicial again.


But say someone had a preference for blondes, and they date you, a brown haired person anyway, while not really hiding that they like blondes more. They look at magazines with blondes, their tumblr/Facebook wall is filled with them. You wouldn't really be prejudiced against them because they like blondes, but don't really want to be in a relationship because you worry they would like blondes more than you.

So, for example, if you're a guy dating a bisexual woman who prefers women, that same fear would permeate but not necessarily be out of a view of bisexual people as inferior but it would be due to that person's orientation.


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

tine said:


> No, ones insecurity BECAUSE of the sexual orientation, the other is insecurity BECAUSE of worrying they'll go off with someone else easier than someone straight i.e. more options available.


But. Look if I was on a diet right? And someone placed chocolate _and _candy in front of me the temptation might be more VARIED but it is not necessarily more tempting. And that also ignores the fact that I then had to consciously choose to take one and cheat on my diet. It's not really about me liking candy and chocolate it's about whether or not I'm the kind of person who'd cheat on my diet.

Now you might have an anxious dietician constantly obsessing over the idea of their customer's cheating on their diets but that person would be worried about the act of cheating, not whether they cheated with chocolate or candy. 

Fear of cheating shouldn't be tied to sexuality because the problem isn't a wider field to choose from, it's the behaviour. Assuming that a wider selection automatically means more temptation is prejudice or presumption or maybe projection but it's not a reasonable thing to think. 



Torai said:


> But say someone had a preference for blondes, and they date you, a brown haired person anyway, while not really hiding that they like blondes more. They look at magazines with blondes, their tumblr/Facebook wall is filled with them. You wouldn't really be prejudiced against them because they like blondes, but don't really want to be in a relationship because you worry they would like blondes more than you.
> 
> So, for example, if you're a guy dating a bisexual woman who prefers women, that same fear would permeate but not necessarily be out of a view of bisexual people as inferior but it would be due to that person's orientation.


But, like your own example points out, this isn't a behaviour confined to bisexuality. Preferences exist everywhere. Now presumably if that person is with you DESPITE overtly preferring the other gender there's something special about you and the insecurity shouldn't exist. But yeah, I'd chalk this one more up to insecurity than prejudice. But insecurity tied more to a fear of abandonment than it is to sexuality, presumably someone like this would feel insecure even if both partners were het and one made clear they preferred gingers over blondes or whatever.


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## Blickwinkel (May 15, 2012)

In my experience, men are much more likely to date a bisexual woman than for a woman to date a bisexual man. Is this something that anyone else has noticed, or is it just me?


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Blickwinkel said:


> In my experience, men are much more likely to date a bisexual woman than for a woman to date a bisexual man. Is this something that anyone else has noticed, or is it just me?


I don't know, but it seems there is a lot of stigma on both sides.

What's so hard to understand about bisexuality? - AfterEllen.com



> “We don’t exist (last time I checked, I wasn’t an apparition), we’re incapable of monogamy; if we’re in a monogamous relationship we’re missing something; we’re really just gay or really just straight; we’re attracted to everyone/have no type; we have uncontrollable sexual appetites and want to fuck everyone…”


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

tine said:


> No, ones insecurity BECAUSE of the sexual orientation, the other is insecurity BECAUSE of worrying they'll go off with someone else easier than someone straight i.e. more options available.


I could argue that the second is rooted in prejudice as well. What I mean is that said person assumes that people who are bisexual are less faithful to their partners than someone who is straight. I suppose one could say that they are worried because they would have "more opportunity" (heterosexuals of the opposite sex and **** hi and pan sexuals of the same sex), but people who are deemed attractive by society would also have more opportunity (people would be more likely to hit on them) as well as people who are attracted to lots of people of the same sex, so, it would seem to me that if the later was the reason, then said person should also not date anyone who is considered very attractive. That all being said, I don't mind usually chalking the latter up to immaturity, because that is probably what that usually is, but they are making the claim that people who are bisexual are less faithful/less likely to be faithful (so biphobia caused by immaturity?)


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Funny, I was just thinking of this thread the other night before someone bumped it...



Blickwinkel said:


> In my experience, men are much more likely to date a bisexual woman than for a woman to date a bisexual man. Is this something that anyone else has noticed, or is it just me?


Women in general seem less likely to date bisexuals. Having slept with a man seems a bigger threat to lesbians than a queer man who has a history with women, even. You're not only dealing with sexuality, but gender, so the idea that a woman might not be "enough" for their partner factors in to the equation, as well. 

I think part of it comes from the idea that "real" sex can only be performed with a man, and by extension, a penis. When women sleep with other women, it's considered a phase, experimentation, or for straight male pleasure; it's invalid. This is one reason lesbians and bisexual women struggle so much with visibility, and with "proving" their orientation, even to one another, since so many women are "allowed" to experiment, admire one another, etc. without question. There are plenty of folk who believe bisexuality is more common in women, and even scientific articles that argue no straight or gay women exist. This seems to mirror the argument that so many people held for years about women being asexual. 

Opposite problem with men, who are only seen as being 100% one or the other. The sexual one drop rule applies here: any man who admits or is caught crossing that invisible line is forever "tainted". There's no curiosity, questioning, or experimenting, and there is no grey areas. The assumption is that the man in question, once on that path, will undoubtedly end up gay. There's little talk of self-identified gay men discovering their attraction towards women; if anything, it would be met with doubt and scorn, and acts involving women seem to be put in the background. Again, the idea is that attractions and behaviors involving men are somehow more valid. 

Don't take this the wrong way, though. Plenty of straight guys will become insecure once they find out that their girlfriend's bisexuality isn't just a catchy term. In fact, if it turns out she's full lesbian, and less interested in the relationship than before, he might react the same way as he would with someone of the same sex who is gay. I think a lot of guys think bisexual and gay women simply need to be "cured", and that they don't know what they're missing, but once they realize it's not going to happen, they react with shock and anger.


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## Emtropy (Feb 3, 2013)

Biphobic? I think the assumption that they'll leave their partner because they're easy/uncommitted is a little unfair, and perhaps rooted in ignorance/prejudice.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Fredward said:


> But, like your own example points out, this isn't a behaviour confined to bisexuality. Preferences exist everywhere. Now presumably if that person is with you DESPITE overtly preferring the other gender there's something special about you and the insecurity shouldn't exist. But yeah, I'd chalk this one more up to insecurity than prejudice. But insecurity tied more to a fear of abandonment than it is to sexuality, presumably someone like this would feel insecure even if both partners were het and one made clear they preferred gingers over blondes or whatever.


People have relationships of convenience all the time to people they aren't really attracted to. So, if your partner is inconsistent with attention or affection, enough to drive some insecurity in the relationship, the line gets blurred.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> How much of a higher risk? Any man who has sex is at a higher risk of contracting an STI or STD. Do you refuse to have sex with men who aren't virgins or who have had more than a certain amount of sexual partners?


The rates of all STIs are significantly higher in MSM populations where I live. It's a known public health issue that my health department tracks.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

koalaroo said:


> Can you rephrase what you wrote, as the phrasing has me kind of confused.
> 
> For what it's worth, any time I have a new sexual partner, we go through a very thorough vetting of their sexual history and my sexual history. If a man has in the recent past had sexual contact with another man, I will forgo sexual activity with him. I view it as an unnecessary health risk. There are other behaviors I view as unnecessary health risks in staunchly heterosexual men, but the topic here is bisexual men.


So you think that as soon as someone had sex with a man they are at a greater risk? Even if the heterosexual men had like 300 different sex partners in the last 2 years?


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Morfinyon said:


> So you think that as soon as someone had sex with a man they are at a greater risk? Even if the heterosexual men had like 300 different sex partners in the last 2 years?


For men who have sex with men, the rates of STIs are incredibly high in the U.S. Since the topic is bisexual men, I didn't talk about my criterion for heterosexual men. However, someone who had significant numbers of partners in the previous year would automatically get a "NO GO" from me.


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## TheProphetLaLa (Aug 18, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> The rates of all STIs are significantly higher in MSM populations where I live. It's a known public health issue that my health department tracks.


Ok. But do you understand what I'm saying here.

Lets say a man has had sex with 10 female partners. Would he be more or less at risk of contracting an STI than a bisexual man who had only had sex with 1 male?


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

TheProphetLaLa said:


> Ok. But do you understand what I'm saying here.
> 
> Lets say a man has had sex with 10 female partners. Would he be more or less at risk of contracting an STI than a bisexual man who had only had sex with 1 male?


Since the topic is bisexual men, I haven't (again) spoken about my criterion for heterosexual men. Men in both the categories you listed would be high risk, and therefore I would not sleep with either.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

Not wanting to date someone who is bisexual because of being afraid that they'll cheat on you with the different sex is like refusing to date someone who is attracted to both women with lightly and dark colored hair.

I really, honestly, do not see why it matters if someone's bisexual.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

I'm going to say something that people are going to hate, but here's something for people to investigate.

HIV infections among black women are on the rise. Rates of HIV in straight black men are comparatively low compared to rates of HIV in straight black women and rates of HIV in black men who have sex with men. What's the driving source of the high rate in black women? Black MSM who are on the down low or are not honest with their female partners about how much of a risk they are to have sex with.


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## Apolo (Aug 15, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> I'm going to say something that people are going to hate, but here's something for people to investigate.
> 
> HIV infections among black women are on the rise. Rates of HIV in straight black men are comparatively low compared to rates of HIV in straight black women and rates of HIV in black men who have sex with men. What's the driving source of the high rate in black women? Black MSM who are on the down low or are not honest with their female partners about how much of a risk they are to have sex with.


Which is why I think you are incredibly intelligent for being so diligent with determining whom you are having sex with, and for wanting to vette them thoroughly. I don't see why people are pushing back on you for stating simple facts, and very sound logic, especially as it pertains to your health.


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

I wanna change my vote now. Rational pragmatism doesn't seem homophobic.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Apolo said:


> Which is why I think you are incredibly intelligent for being so dilligent with whom you are having sex with, and for wanting to vette them thoroughly. I don't see why people are pushing back on you for stating simple facts, and very sound logic, especially as it pertains to your health.


Thanks. I think my precautions are sensible. The topic was whether not dating bisexuals is homophobic or not; I don't think it is when it pertains to health risks. To be honest, if I was a guy, I don't think I'd have a problem dating and sleeping with a bisexual woman who has in the past had sexual relations with other women. However, as a woman, I do have a problem with dating and sleeping with a bisexual man who has in the past (particularly recent past) had sexual relations with other men. Of course, as my example with the black community demonstrates, I can't always be sure that my partner is honest or not on the down low.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

ummmmm why not just get tested, make them get tested, and use condoms no matter what?


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

the401 said:


> is it homophobic for straight men to not date gays?
> 
> go figure


Every straight guy should be fucked in their butt by a gay man at least once in their life, and comments like these only reinforce that opinion.


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## mhysa (Nov 27, 2014)

as stated in the OP, if the refusal to date bisexual people is founded in ****/biphobic beliefs, then yes. if you just don't want to date someone and they happen to be bisexual, then no.

some might say it's "just my preference" not to date bisexuals, but the only thing all bisexual people have in common is the fact that they're bisexual. doesn't look too good for those people with "preferences" imo.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

koalaroo said:


> I'm going to say something that people are going to hate, but here's something for people to investigate.
> 
> HIV infections among black women are on the rise. Rates of HIV in straight black men are comparatively low compared to rates of HIV in straight black women and rates of HIV in black men who have sex with men. What's the driving source of the high rate in black women? Black MSM who are on the down low or are not honest with their female partners about how much of a risk they are to have sex with.


I hadn't read your posts when I first posted in this thread, so that's unrelated. I'm not one to quickly call people racist/homophobe, etc (I mean, either if they are or not, I find it an unnuanced and unproductive way to engange an argument. And secondly, there's no point in worrying about individual cases of racism/homphobia or other forms of bigotry). And I don't necessarily think you are, so that's not what I'm trying to point out but...

I don't believe black guys on the downlow are entirely analogous with openly bisexual men. That dl culture is a bit of a microcosm. Black men on the down low are usually(!!) practicing this lifestyle because they're gay men within a culture that is far less accepting of homosexuality than white culture is. So they date women to keep face and fuck other men because that's where their actual preference lies.

They cheat for different reasons; to get the sexual pleasure they think they "should" get from their heterosexual relationship. Whereas an openly heterosexual man doesn't necessarily need to both play the skinflute and pet the kitten. They're just fine with doing either.

Are there accurate statistics of the rate of cheating bisexual men vs heterosexual men? And if they specifically cheat with other men while in a heterosexual relationship?


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## heroindisguise (May 6, 2014)

I voted for "it depends on the exact reasons why". 

I don't think it is reasonable to lump every person who has no preference for dating bisexuals as having biphobia. People are entitled to their own opinions and preferences, and that may include not wanting to date a bi. It doesn't immediately qualify them as holding some sort of prejudice towards said person. Some people may choose to do so for religious reasons, others may find that sexual attractiveness diminishes with the idea of it and none of them may actually shun the person. Hypothetically, If I choose to date strictly heterosexual men, but have dear friends that are homosexual and bisexual (in which I don't bother myself with what they choose to do and treat them as individuals), does that really make me a phobic of some sort? 

It's almost implying that religious individuals who choose to date other individuals with the same beliefs are prejudiced against all other individuals who don't hold the same beliefs. If the person I am dating happen to hold a separate belief should I force him to change his beliefs to accommodate mine? Similarly, if someone has a strong preference for dating heterosexuals (and with legitimate reasons at that) should they be forced to change their preferences to accommodate yours? 

To immediately correlate declining to date bisexuals with biphobia is too black and white of a view, and unfairly demonises the other party for a differing opinion they hold.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Derange At 170 said:


> I hadn't read your posts when I first posted in this thread, so that's unrelated. I'm not one to quickly call people racist/homophobe, etc (I mean, either if they are or not, I find it an unnuanced and unproductive way to engange an argument. And secondly, there's no point in worrying about individual cases of racism/homphobia or other forms of bigotry). And I don't necessarily think you are, so that's not what I'm trying to point out but...
> 
> I don't believe black guys on the downlow are entirely analogous with openly bisexual men. That dl culture is a bit of a microcosm. Black men on the down low are usually(!!) practicing this lifestyle because they're gay men within a culture that is far less accepting of homosexuality than white culture is. So they date women to keep face and fuck other men because that's where their actual preference lies.
> 
> ...


That's a partially fair assessment of the situation in the black gay/bi community. However, I have never said anything about thinking that a bisexual partner would cheat on me. I think men of all sexual preferences probably have the same likelihood of cheating. At any rate, my point still illustrates the risk of having sex with men who have sex with men -- whether you're a straight woman or a gay man or a bi man. You're more likely to pick up something from such a high risk encounter than you are encounters with men who are straight, whether or not promiscuity is involved. The rates of STD/STI in MSM communities around the globe are unconscionably high to the point of being a public health nightmare.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

koalaroo said:


> You're more likely to pick up something from such a high risk encounter than you are encounters with men who are straight.


again, why not just get tested, get him tested, and use condoms?


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## mhysa (Nov 27, 2014)

heroindisguise said:


> I voted for "it depends on the exact reasons why".
> 
> I don't think it is reasonable to lump every person who has no preference for dating bisexuals as having biphobia. People are entitled to their own opinions and preferences, and that may include not wanting to date a bi. It doesn't immediately qualify them as holding some sort of prejudice towards said person. Some people may choose to do so for religious reasons, others may find that sexual attractiveness diminishes with the idea of it and none of them may actually shun the person. Hypothetically, If I choose to date strictly heterosexual men, but have dear friends that are homosexual and bisexual (in which I don't bother myself with what they choose to do and treat them as individuals), does that really make me a phobic of some sort?
> 
> ...


but biphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism etc isn't always based in intentionally malicious behavior. no one should have to change their preferences, i don't think anyone is obligated to go out of their way to date someone they wouldn't usually go for. not having a preference for dating bisexual people isn't bad - having a preference specifically not to might be.

i just find it suspect when people dismiss all bisexual people from their dating life just because of some quality they deem all bisexuals to have. if that quality is bisexuality itself, then yes, i find that to be biphobic. refusing to date a person based on their bisexuality - if that's not biphobic, then i'm not sure what is :/


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> again, why not just get tested, get him tested, and use condoms?


Like I already said, for certain viral infections (HPV or herpes), condoms are next to useless in preventing their transmission. There is currently no approved HPV test for men, for what it's worth. Herpes antibody tests are also not 100% accurate.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

koalaroo said:


> Like I already said, for certain viral infections (HPV or herpes), condoms are next to useless in preventing their transmission. There is currently no approved HPV test for men, for what it's worth. Herpes antibody tests are also not 100% accurate.


sure, and most sexually active adults over the age of 25 have both, and there are not any huge negatives for having either assuming you have the HPV vaccine.

I'm not buying you are actually being "safer" by refraining from having sex with bisexual men. 

Do you have statistics showing bisexual men are more likely to be HPV or herpes carriers than straight men?


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