# Psyche Yoga - an alternative subtype system - potentially stand alone



## redneck15 (Mar 21, 2011)

http://einsteinlvef.tumblr.co m/

So Psyche Yoga basically works like this. You have logic, emotion, volition, and physics. Logic is what it sounds like. Emotion is what it sounds like. Volition is basically selfishness, getting your way. Physics is basically enjoying and immersing yourself in your sensory environment.

Everyone has each of these, ranked 1 to 4. 1 is like a mix of the Base and Ignoring, 2 like a mix of the creative and demonstrative, 3 like a mix of vulnerable and polr, and 4 like role and suggestive. Except that the desire for the suggestive gets taken out. 

So 1 and 4 are result - you just want those things. 1 is your worldview so to speak. 4 you just don't want to think about, it's stupid and annoying. 2 and 3 are process. 2 you use a lot like the creative function, flexible and so on. 3 is something you're insecure about and value.

These categories, unlike Socionics type, are not really cognitive. It's much more straightforward and behavioral. 

Because in theory any Socionics type can have any configuration of letters, FEVL or LEFV or whatever, it can be a subtype system. From what I've observed, some configurations are way more likely than others - however you do see differences. 

I'm VLEF in this system.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Well, Psyche Yoga is a stand-alone thing. It deals purely with people's priorities and personal preferences rather than with cognition, information metabolism and psyche structure.

I was an LVEF according to it, iirc.


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## redneck15 (Mar 21, 2011)

To_august said:


> Well, Psyche Yoga is a stand-alone thing. It deals purely with people's priorities and personal preferences rather than with cognition, information metabolism and psyche structure.
> 
> I was an LVEF according to it, iirc.


Right. I mention it as a possible subtype system because there was some debate over that in World Socionics Society (not sure if you're familiar). Personally I thought it should be stand alone, but for purposes of personal differentiation within a specific type, you might use it instead of a subtype system. Because I've never been convinced of any subtype system being valid in the cognitive realm. Like DCNH seems contrived.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

theon.greyjoy said:


> Right. I mention it as a possible subtype system because there was some debate over that in World Socionics Society (not sure if you're familiar). Personally I thought it should be stand alone, but for purposes of personal differentiation within a specific type, you might use it instead of a subtype system. Because I've never been convinced of any subtype system being valid in the cognitive realm. Like DCNH seems contrived.


Yay! Someone else is interested in this system. 


I'm not sure how much interest there will be on this forum but you're always welcome to PM me to chat. I'm always looking for more people to discuss it with. 

I think I'm most likely LVEF but I keep having doubts about it. Especially about the 1L part because I tend to doubt and question everything. I'm almost never completely sure I'm right. But the type description of LVEF fits me well even if the 1L description isn't the best fit. 

I prefer to see this typology as a stand alone system rather than as a subtype system. There actually isn't as much correlation with socionics as one might think. You can get some quite unexpected combinations. ILI with 1E, LIE with 1F, etc. 

I also like DCNH but I've never felt quite sure of my subtype. I could make a good case for any subtype except for D. I lean most towards H at this moment. It's easier in the two subtype system. 

I've studied psyche-yoga for about 1.5 years now. (why do they call it that anyway?) I first got introduced to it on the WSS group. There's also a Facebook group too that's in English. Maybe you're already on it, I don't know. Here's the link.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

theon.greyjoy said:


> http://einsteinlvef.tumblr.co m/
> 
> So Psyche Yoga basically works like this. You have logic, emotion, volition, and physics. Logic is what it sounds like. Emotion is what it sounds like. Volition is basically selfishness, getting your way. Physics is basically enjoying and immersing yourself in your sensory environment.
> 
> ...


It's a good summary except I might make one minor correction about V. V is more than just selfishness and getting your way. It's about willpower, decision making, goals, even your attitudes towards other people and society. The selfishness and insisting on your way would most likely be 1V and even then 1V isn't always like that. 

The other positions of V will either give in to others desires and/or try to negotiate some compromise. 1V can too but it probably isn't as natural or their preferred approach.

2V for example is quite adaptable and unselfish. They always take others' peoples desires into consideration but they are also good at not forgetting their own.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

I've pasted the function position descriptions from the blog here to make for easier reading and typing yourself. I love the information from the blog- useful site but requires too much scrolling down to find what you need. 


*Physical State - “Body”:* The attitude to all material things; looks, food, ownership, money, reproduction, comfort, physical care and practical skills which are all specific physical actions.

*Logical State - “Mind”:* The attitude to all logical thinking, analysis, knowledge, erudition, as well as opinions, proof, arguments, the search for truth and scientific research for the meaning of life.

*Willpower - “Spirit/Character”:* The attitude to personal energy, willpower, power, decisiveness, confidence, desires, adherence to goals and overcoming obstacles, self-consciousness towards other people and to the world in general. Self-control, responsibility and obligations. 

*Emotional State - “Soul”:* The attitude to emotional reactions, feelings and experiences, as well intuitive premonition, the cultural and artistic side of life. (painting, music, movies - everything where emotions play a leading role).

*First function*
*The Proactive or Dogmatic functions are characterized as result oriented, having excess knowledge of the particular aspect and normally speak in monologues when talking about the aspect. Confidence, hardness, stiffness, caution and independence are key words to describe the attitude the person has towards the aspect of the first function.*

*[1V] First Willpower:* Tendency to proactively take responsibility for their own and others actions. A driven person motivated to lead, carry the heavy load and push projects forward. Very good at overcoming odds, working towards achieving their goals and knowing what they want. Does not take the will and desires of others into account. They excel at leadership, yet they are bad at teamwork, believing that the only way to get a job done well is by doing it yourself. Unable to adequately compromise their own wishes or desires, making them appear rather undiplomatic at times.

*[1E] First Emotion:* Naturally fluctuates between emotional states and spices up everyday life for themselves and others. Done through an active meeting with their world with a real enthusiasm or passion in their own personal endeavors thereby always acting authentic to their own feelings. They will often act unfiltered on their own emotions, not taking into account the positions or emotional effect their behavior has on others. Can have a tendency to overdramatise a situation and not dealing with things in a level-headed way, thereby blowing them out of proportion and escalating conflicts.

*[1L] First Logic:* A know-it-all. Readily and confidently provides clear and unambiguous answers and opinions. They are steady, reliable sources of information and excel at giving closure to otherwise uncertain ideas and thoughts from a solid and strong framework. Dogmatic and inflexible in their opinions. Consider that their own ideas are right by default and those of others are inferior. Has a very hard time admitting to mistakes and can pull up an arrogant and unapproachable facade. Will often dismiss ideas not fitting their own thoughts instantly without giving them the consideration they require.

*[1F] First Physics:* Has a strong idea of their material wants/needs and the state of their physical selves. Combined with a natural sense of ownership and knowing just what they need to enjoy life. Hyper aware of how something makes them feel (physically) and actively take steps to pursue the positive states while avoiding the negative. Overly materialistic and superficial in their approach. Focused on their own pleasure and material needs, which can make them rather greedy and egoistic, and disinclined to share anything. Can also appear lazy and spoiled, by being unwilling to change or make any compromises in their lifestyle.

*Second function*
*The Diplomatic functions are characterized as process oriented, having normative knowledge of the particular aspect and normally speak in dialogues when talking about the aspect. Flexibility, fearlessness, assurance, pity and compromisation are key words to describe the attitude the person has towards the aspect of the second function.*

*[2V] Second Willpower:* Makes sure the wishes and desires of everyone are taken into account and negotiates compromises to avoid anyone being overseen or left behind. Very inclined to work with others to achieve the best possible results for everyone involved and finding the fairest solutions. Ability to take responsibility where needed, without overstepping boundaries. Can start discussions about what to do on every subject, which will slow down the actual decision making process considerably and can lead to nothing being done at all.

*[2E] Second Emotion:* Able to act as the setting requires, and empathically takes into account the feelings of everyone while providing space for others to express themselves and live out their own emotions. Has a very good understanding of the mood and can actively adjust their own feelings to match it or manipulate it to fit others without ever losing control or being emotionally inappropriate. Their love for emotional games and prodding in the emotions of others can lead to hostile reactions, due to overstepping emotional boundaries.

*[2L] Second Logic:* Open minded in the traditional sense of the word and able to freely discuss everything while listening and accepting the opinions and ideas of others, giving them the reflection and thought required. Completely able to tactfully convince the other party of their ideas, while also openly admitting to their own mistakes, thereby enlightening the world. They may endlessly discuss ideas without reaching any kind of constructive conclusion and naturally over complexify an otherwise simple subject.

*[2F] Second Physics:* Able to show others the beauty and pleasures of life, making them enjoy the finer aspects of it. Altruistic people and material caregivers providing actively for the comfort of others, making sure that the other party is never left wanting for anything. They seek to freely share their own resources, while simultaneously always being open to help others. However, they can endlessly improve their material conditions, which in turn leads to nowhere.

*Third function*
*The Insecure functions are characterized as process oriented, having limited knowledge of the particular aspect and normally speak in dialogues when talking about the aspect. Envy, timidity, doubt, flexibility and compromisation are key words to describe the attitude the person has towards the aspect of the third function. *

*[3V] Third Willpower:* Nonconformist tendencies and actively (Though not necessarily directly) questions authority, preventing hasty or rushed decisions that have not been properly thought through. Strong knowledge of what they do not want. Flexible in their goals and desires, and are able to change these. Attentive to power dynamics and status, yet refuse to take responsibility for their own situation, viewing themselves as passive victims of their circumstances. Despite having a certain awareness of their goals, they lack the will to implement them. This makes them very quick to give up and they will quickly change course if the opposition is met. Has a hard time refusing authority, but will often not act in agreement with what they may previously said yes to, making them seem unpredictable.

*[3E] Third Emotion:* Questions emotional displays as well as their appropriateness in given situations. Encourages grounded, level-headed decision making and actively avoids emotional extremes or dramatic escalations. Remaining sceptical pathos and emotional manipulation. Often actively hides or suppresses their emotional states and are worried about others reactions to them. Because of this emotional suppression, they are prone to being trapped in negative emotional states, without actively knowing how to process them. They are afraid of strong emotional expression as they associate that with a loss of control, and can demand such to be kept to a minimum in their environment. The high emotional self-control also causes problems in personal relationships, as they will have trouble “letting go”.

*[3L] Third Logic:* Ability to remain sceptical of most conclusions and question what is otherwise established as facts as well as the status quo of accepted knowledge. Seeing methods of value beyond commonly accepted reason that may fit the real world better. Using them to reach conclusions that illustrate mistakes in the reasoning of others or the commonly accepted. Due to doubts about their own intellectual capabilities, they are afraid to present or discuss their ideas, often living in paranoia of criticism. Are likely to refuse what they are told based on their own opinions about the matter despite all the evidence or reason seemingly pointing against their point of view. Not attentive to the logic of others and may twist or misrepresent arguments or ideas they’ve heard through their own language rather than how they were initially presented.

*[3F] Third Physics:* Avoids burdening others with their needs and desires and likewise avoids spending money or energy unnecessarily on meaningless endeavours. Looks for constant improvement of their physical state while being very attentive to flaws or lacking within the material/physical realm. Can often be a vain perfectionist who is constantly unsatisfied with their own looks and conditions. Can often overlook problems in their own physical conditions due to the wish to not impose this area unto others. May have specific tastes or preferences such as wishing for wealth, but they are unable to put any work into actually fulfilling their desires themselves, making it seem like they need to be pampered. Very prone to jealousy and may feel a sense of ownership over their partner.


*Fourth function*
*The Reactive or Submissive functions are characterized as result oriented, having poor knowledge of the particular aspect and normally speak in monologues when talking about the aspect. Indifference, uncertainty, unreliability, hardness and dependence are key words to describe the attitude the person has towards the aspect of the fourth function.*

*[4V] Fourth Willpower:* Very compliant and reliable. Puts harmony over their own desires which makes them easy to get along with, as they generally will adjust to the wishes of others, creating a positive relation to them while avoiding conflict. Good at giving new experiences and endeavours a chance. Very dependent on others and are often indecisive, making them unable to make their own choices. Somewhat irresponsible and will actively avoid positions of responsibility at all times if possible.

*[4E] Fourth Emotion:* Great ability to deal with and adapt to emotional extremes while remaining grounded and accepting of them, without losing their calm. Arranging their own emotions according to what is being expressed, rather than what they feel themselves which makes them able to easily accept strong personal expressions of others. Indifferent to their own feelings and generally pays no heed or attention to them. May not experience emotions naturally, but confuse those with physical reactions. Can appear very cold, detached or uninvested due to the emotional devaluing.

*[4L] Fourth Logic:* Open to different points of view and explanations, and using the logic of others to understand their own life without necessarily being personally committed to a point of view or model of explanation. Likewise able to cut short a conversation or discussion if clear answers are not being driven from it. Intellectually dependent and can need the guidance of others to figure things out. May present claims without the necessary reason or rationalizations behind them, as they deem these of lesser importance. May base their knowledge on trusted authorities rather than who has the better arguments.

*[4F] Fourth Physics:* Able to figuratively live anywhere under any kind of physical conditions without any complaints. No need for or strong attachments to material pleasures and no strong attachment to their material possessions and they do not require much diversity in sensory pleasure. Easily satisfied, yet only hindered by an inability to take care of themselves. No patience for physical endeavours. No idea about preferences in the physical/material world. Only has habits to go from when making evaluations about material linking, thus being quite conservative or unknowing in their tastes.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Honestly, I can't decide. From these descriptions I'm clearly E first, but both F and V seem to be equally prominent in me T_T

So I'm probably either EVFL or EFVL. I honestly don't relate to being terrible at any of these attitudes but meh... had to pick something.

I also relate to logic in third place, not fourth! Is there a type called E(V+F)L_ ? Cause I'd love that hahaha


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Alright, read the type descriptions. This is confusing. EVFL and VEFL seem to be the top candidates right now. Let's see...


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## Caelestis (Oct 3, 2012)

Going purely by descriptions on the blog, I'd say ELFV and LVFE are probably the closest to me.

Going by the position descriptions posted above, I'd be LFVE.

I noticed that the descriptions on the blog are even more black and white than many other type descriptions. You're creative and intelligent but completely incapable of functioning in the world. You're practical and capable but an uninspired drone. Probably a consequence of incorporating too much cognitive elements into it, which doesn't really work well for it's format.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

theon.greyjoy said:


> Right. I mention it as a possible subtype system because there was some debate over that in World Socionics Society (not sure if you're familiar). Personally I thought it should be stand alone, but for purposes of personal differentiation within a specific type, you might use it instead of a subtype system. Because I've never been convinced of any subtype system being valid in the cognitive realm. Like DCNH seems contrived.


Ok. Then, I guess, we're on the same page. I'm aware of the WSS existence, but I'm not part of the group.

It has to remain a stand-alone thing, so people wouldn't confuse Psychosophy (or, which is the proper name used for it?) Logic with Socionics Te/Ti, since they are not really connected. But, of course, people may use it as a further differentiation of their personality, like Enneagram for example or some other type system.

I don't really care for DCNH. It is probably useful for evaluation of behaviour in group settings, but I'm not much of an active participator in group settings, so it doesn't tell me that much in terms of my personality.


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