# Is your "vibe" congruent with your type and tritype?



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Enneagram types - core types, wing, tritypes - tend to be associated with a certain "vibe." Sometimes, this immediate vibe is congruent with the type or tritype. But then there are cases when someone "feels" like a certain type, but the motives don't pan out to that same type.

Has this happened to anyone? 
Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?
Are you still uncertain of your type, wings, and fixes for reasons like this?
Do you think "vibe" typing has any merit? If so, how much or how little?


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I will start:

*Has this happened to anyone? *
I am one to figure things out for myself, though of course with enneagram, sometimes we can't see the forest through the trees, and it's worth hearing how others perceive us, in case we are missing something. I find it fascinating that people who know me have always told me I'm an 8, even when I was mistyped... but people who don't know me seem to think I'm a 7 right off the cuff, get to know me a little and say I'm 847, and once they know me well, think I'm an 845 and I should stop considering 7 even for a fix. I don't know why - perhaps because I'm an ENFP? 

*Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?*
Yes. I had a lot of trouble accepting my core, and it was confusing that people kept suggesting 7w6 or 3w4 when I was having a hard time emotionally and coming to terms with myself via enneagram. I even mistyped at 3 because it was easier than accepting my core. But, I knew deep down what I was , all along... at least as far as core.... I just didn't want to accept it. Once I was ready, I just had to shut out the rest of the world, read all the sources and face myself.

*Are you still uncertain of your type, wings, and fixes for reasons like this?*
I'm sure of my core & heart fix, and I can see how my motives and thinking suggest 5 for a fix, but I'm gonna feel connected to 5 regardless because 8 has a line to 5. So I still find myself wondering "Do I have a 7 fix?" simply because of that vibe.

*Do you think "vibe" typing has any merit? If so, how much or how little?*
Probably. I don't know to what extent.


----------



## Dyidia (May 28, 2010)

In the past I've come across as very "heady," back when I was trying to orient myself towards some semblance of meaning, though for me this basically made me look like a 6w5/5w6. Back then, unfortunately, I put a lot of stock in a select few others' opinions about me, one in particular who said I "vibed" a head-fix. Fairly telling though that about a half year letter both of us felt that we were sort of "past the Enneagram," not really feeling like it meant much of anything. This was also someone who only knew me via PMs and forum posts, though I'm really reserved and people who knew me at this time would say things like I'm "hyperanalytical."

I wouldn't have found my actual type if I hadn't returned later to post about the Enneagram for my own amusement. At this point I had mellowed out, coming more to a feeling of peace and quite frankly doing little in the line of using my head. I just happened to write a distinction between 5s and 9s, and suddenly realized I really just didn't fit the 5. Now that I'm more relaxed though, people seem to get a vibe of all my fixes (9, 5, 4) but depending on what I'm doing, the order can be somewhat confused. When I really put myself out there, I get the feedback of "emo" or "melancholy," and if I really try to get my point across, I get the feedback that I'm "cerebral" or "insightful," but most people who know me think I'm really chill. I get "cool" "nice" and "sweet" pretty regularly, but all those are pretty generic and anyone might say that without thinking.

I don't really put much emphasis on other people's vibe, particularly when they talk about vibing a given _type_, just because that usually implies stereotyping. First impression. I mean, yeah, I'm _cerebral_ and _insightful_. But I'm not a 5.


----------



## SharkT00th (Sep 5, 2012)

Dying Acedia said:


> I don't really put much emphasis on other people's vibe, particularly when they talk about vibing a given _type_, just because that usually implies stereotyping. First impression. I mean, yeah, I'm _cerebral_ and _insightful_. But I'm not a 5.


THIS! 
Alot of the time people seem to think I'm easy going or intense. I don't understand how I could be both at the same time, I believe that Vibes are really subjective and are more of an indication between the two individuals who are vibing.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

These are two friends of mine I met for the first time in the very same class - who later on shared their first impressions of me:

Friend A: I thought you were very bubbly, outgoing, *happy*, carefree. 

Friend B: I felt you had a dark side to you, you came off as very deep and contemplative.

I don't know how this is even possible. But anyway, my point is, you'll come off a different way depending on the person. I even had someone suggest ENTJ for me, which is hilarious because you'll never meet someone more Feeler-y than I am. My feels are all over the place. Granted, I was very closed off with this person cause they didn't vibe well with me. 

It really depends on the company I'm with. I'm a whole bunch of things at the same time, all rolled into one. I can be extremely bubbly and 7ish if I'm really happy, I can be very melancholic and feeler-y when I'm with someone who I feel will allow me to express that side of me, I can be very no-nonsense and cutting when someone irritates me. So no, I don't think typing according to vibe is THAT legit. At best, if there's something you consistently observe in someone, then I'd say it can be really indicative of type if it can be traced back to motivations. 

.. I just realized how kaleidoscopic my entire post was :blushed:

*PS:* I do think though, that some things _do _manifest themselves in behavior/vibe. IMO, the detachment of type 5 is unmistakable. Same goes for the polished feel of type 3, or the calm/easy going aura of the 9. They're hardly reliable as a typing basis, but they're definitely interesting to notice.


----------



## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

SharkT00th said:


> Alot of the time people seem to think I'm easy going or intense.


same here. both at the same time. i've written the 'easy-going part' off under the 7 wing influence.


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Maybe said:


> Enneagram types - core types, wing, tritypes - tend to be associated with a certain "vibe." Sometimes, this immediate vibe is congruent with the type or tritype. But then there are cases when someone "feels" like a certain type, but the motives don't pan out to that same type.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone?
> Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?
> ...


I usually type people according to "vibes" and usually have no difficulty doing so. I think it's a fine way to type someone using the Enneagram, although much harder for MBTI.

I originally thought I was a 4w5 until a bunch of people on PerC convinced me I was actually a 6w5. But NF Sixes often resemble Fours so I don't think that was an uncommon mistake to make. After I accepted I was a Six, I had little problem figuring out my tritype (I had a bit of a problem with deciding what my gut fix was though).

There are some people I know though, where tritype makes a HUGE difference in making sense of their type. For example, I have a friend who's 5w6>2w3>9w1 and I'm pretty sure she's a Feeler (I'm leaning towards INFJ or ENFJ) which you definitely wouldn't expect a 5 to be. But it makes sense because of the 2. She definitely doesn't have the detached, logical, sometimes cold Fiveishness, but judging by core motivations her #1 motivation in life is knowledge.

Another non-personal example would be the character of Megan Draper on Mad Men. I originally thought she was a 4w3 based on "vibe", however going by core motivations she's actually a 7w6, with a 7w6>4w3>9w? tritype.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

What is your experience with vibes online vs in person?

(addressed to everyone )


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> I usually type people according to "vibes" and usually have no difficulty doing so. I think it's a fine way to type someone using the Enneagram, although much harder for MBTI.
> 
> I originally thought I was a 4w5 until a bunch of people on PerC convinced me I was actually a 6w5. But NF Sixes often resemble Fours so I don't think that was an uncommon mistake to make. After I accepted I was a Six, I had little problem figuring out my tritype (I had a bit of a problem with deciding what my gut fix was though).
> 
> ...


Do you think vibe typing is possible online or just in person / video / personal interaction?


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Maybe said:


> Do you think vibe typing is possible online or just in person / video / personal interaction?


I think it's definitely possible if you talk to the person really often (like if you're friends). For example since I'm away at college and most of my friends live in my home city, there are people who I met during my college years who I've only hung out with a couple of times in real life, but I know them really well from talking online (or on the phone). I am usually able to type them pretty easily.


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

I imagine it would be tricky to judge a vibe online because people often seem to have trouble judging the tone of forum posts since they have to rely only on text. Even if they use a lot of smilies, it's easy enough to use :laughing: when you really feel like :angry:

But I'm not sure how good I am at reading someone's vibe even in real life.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> I think it's definitely possible if you talk to the person really often (like if you're friends). For example since I'm away at college and most of my friends live in my home city, there are people who I met during my college years who I've only hung out with a couple of times in real life, but I know them really well from talking online (or on the phone). I am usually able to type them pretty easily.


That makes sense. I am not sure if I would consider "vibe typing" the same thing - this sounds more like intuitive typing of people you actually know ? 

For me there is a clear, clear difference in how people seem to perceive me enneagram wise on PerC or upon superficially meeting, vs. Skype or actual friendship. I also think this might be a result of stereotyping, though? For instance you mentioned your friend who is a 5 - people usually tell someone they're "mistyped " at 5 on PerC if they argue with passion or they discuss emotions whatsoever. Similarly I am not really a "tough guy bully" or some people who are 7s might not be ditzy and distractable. But then once you talk to someone in real time you can see how their mind works and what makes then tick; and at that point I'm not sure I would call it "vibe typing" - does that make sense ?


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Nonsense said:


> I imagine it would be tricky to judge a vibe online because people often seem to have trouble judging the tone of forum posts since they have to rely only on text. Even if they use a lot of smilies, it's easy enough to use :laughing: when you really feel like :angry:
> 
> But I'm not sure how good I am at reading someone's vibe even in real life.


I have yet to vibe type someone accurately aside from my father. My fathers type is impossible to miss- he practically has a TyPe SeVeN tattoo on his forehead with an ENTP sign on both cheeks. I second guessed myself at one point and typed him at 3, but that was partially due to personal issues I was having with enneagram at the time and misleading source material.


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Maybe said:


> I have yet to vibe type someone accurately aside from my father. My fathers type is impossible to miss- he practically has a TyPe SeVeN tattoo on his forehead with an ENTP sign on both cheeks. I second guessed myself at one point and typed him at 3, but that was partially due to personal issues I was having with enneagram at the time and misleading source material.


Ugh, I'm not even 100% sure what to type my mother as. Typing people is hard. :bored: (Which is a shame because I now want to know everyone's type, of course.)


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Nonsense said:


> Ugh, I'm not even 100% sure what to type my mother as. Typing people is hard. :bored: (Which is a shame because I now want to know everyone's type, of course.)


I think the fact that you realize it's hard means that you're putting a lot of thought into it and doing it "right." Of course there are many right ways to do things and no system is fool proof... But I've learned that when I get into a new hobby or interest, at first I think "oh I can do this !!" And then I learn enough that I suddenly realize how much I *don't* know. This is probably true of enneagram as a system- that it takes a lot of investment to be competent enough to "vibe type" or type at All with accuracy - but I think there is also a learning curve to each individual psyche as well.

So what I am saying is I think you're smart to recognize that it's hard this early in the game .


----------



## Chaerephon (Apr 28, 2013)

When I talk to people that know enneagrams, they are surprised when I mention I'm a 4, or specifically a 4w5. They look at me and say, "Hmm, you don't seem like the typical individualist." I usually respond along the lines of "Well have you every met anyone quite like me?" I don't mean this as some bullshit line because obviously everyone is a least slightly different, but anyone who knows me even semi-well would agree that I'm pretty atypical.


----------



## Disfigurine (Jan 1, 2011)

I think my vibes is partially why I'm struggling with typing myself. I think vibes carry a lot of importance.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

NameUser said:


> When I talk to people that know enneagrams, they are surprised when I mention I'm a 4, or specifically a 4w5. They look at me and say, "Hmm, you don't seem like the typical individualist." I usually respond along the lines of "Well have you every met anyone quite like me?" I don't mean this as some bullshit line because obviously everyone is a least slightly different, but anyone who knows me even semi-well would agree that I'm pretty atypical.


Lmao!! That is a great response. Lol, next time someone says to me "you don't seem like a typical Challenger" I will say "Then I challenge you to an enneagram duel- surrender now or I.Will.Win. And you will be cut in half."


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

NameUser said:


> They look at me and say, "Hmm, you don't seem like the typical individualist."


Hah, that sounds like a compliment. :laughing:


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Maybe said:


> That makes sense. I am not sure if I would consider "vibe typing" the same thing - this sounds more like intuitive typing of people you actually know ?
> 
> For me there is a clear, clear difference in how people seem to perceive me enneagram wise on PerC or upon superficially meeting, vs. Skype or actual friendship. I also think this might be a result of stereotyping, though? For instance you mentioned your friend who is a 5 - people usually tell someone they're "mistyped " at 5 on PerC if they argue with passion or they discuss emotions whatsoever. Similarly I am not really a "tough guy bully" or some people who are 7s might not be ditzy and distractable. But then once you talk to someone in real time you can see how their mind works and what makes then tick; and at that point I'm not sure I would call it "vibe typing" - does that make sense ?


Yeah PerC does SO much stereotyping. Like the whole "assume that Intuitives are some kind of rare unicorn and try to type everyone as a Sensor and say they just "want to be special" if they self-type as an Intuitive." But I was talking about more in the sense of having an online friend who you talk to one-on-one over a period of time, not like posting on a forum. I find it difficult to type people based on their forum posts.

idk, for me if I can't "feel" someone's main type right away, then I think in terms of tritype. And usually if I can't figure out their main type immediately, they turn out to have two fixes that are kind of "at odds" with each other (like 5/2 or 7/4). I almost never have a problem Enneagram typing people I know with that system. I mean obviously there has to be some baseline of getting to know someone before you can do that.

But in terms of "vibe typing" I think we may be talking about two different things. My definition of "vibe typing" is kind of feeling out what someone's type is without really thinking of the logical explanation behind it. Like being like "this guy seems like an 8 to me" rather than "hmmm, what are his core motivations?" I am very good at doing this with Enneagram but very bad at doing it with MBTI.


----------



## Chaerephon (Apr 28, 2013)

Maybe said:


> Lmao!! That is a great response. Lol, next time someone says to me "you don't seem like a typical Challenger" I will say "Then I challenge you to an enneagram duel- dont be messin wit me, yo"


Lmao. "I challenge you to type me otherwise!"



Nonsense said:


> Hah, that sounds like a compliment. :laughing:


Hmm, I had never thought of it like that. :tongue:


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Maybe said:


> Enneagram types - core types, wing, tritypes - tend to be associated with a certain "vibe." Sometimes, this immediate vibe is congruent with the type or tritype. But then there are cases when someone "feels" like a certain type, but the motives don't pan out to that same type.
> Has this happened to anyone?


yes. I often look more 3w4, 8w7, 9w8 or 1w9 than I do 7w6 (I seldom look like a head type)
though my vibe fits my tritype nicely (confident, aristocratic, idealistic etc)



> Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?


yes!



> Are you still uncertain of your type, wings, and fixes for reasons like this?


in general, no, though I have my doubts periodically (probably related to wing 6 more than anything)



> Do you think "vibe" typing has any merit? If so, how much or how little?


yes, as an indicator, but it needs to be accompanied by other factors and observed over a period of time.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Disfigurine said:


> I think my vibes is partially why I'm struggling with typing myself. I think vibes carry a lot of importance.


Why do you think its important?

also what is the struggle ? People tell you that you're a type you don't feel you are?


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

NameUser said:


> Lmao. "I challenge you to type me otherwise!"


Lol, you're better at this than I am. You sure you're not a "really unique 8?"  

In all seriousness this is how I do respond if I find myself interested in talking to the person and soon enough they're like "damn the 8ness spills out of you," lol. If I don't want to talk to them privately and they keep bothering me on perc To the point where i cant igmore them anymore, I challenge their enneagram knowledge and expose their ignorant asses until they stfu.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)




----------



## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

Maybe said:


> What is your experience with vibes online vs in person?
> 
> (addressed to everyone )


i get zero vibe from people online, or through other written correspondence. it is completely lacking. for me, that vibe is a physical thing i feel in my body. i can't get that in the absence of body language. and accordingly, i understand nothing of what the person might really be like, if all we've ever had is written communication alone.


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

Probably not. Actually I dunno. Is it? *shrug*

I don't put much stock on "vibes". I've been told I give out a 7 vibe before, but lol. My vibe changes every two seconds. I'm way too moody.


----------



## Disfigurine (Jan 1, 2011)

Maybe said:


> Why do you think its important?
> 
> also what is the struggle ? People tell you that you're a type you don't feel you are?


Vibes is how I read people and situations, I get a lot off of that, so that's the only real reason I place any importance on vibes etc. I realize it isn't very 'tangible' and that can be difficult to explain.

No, I just have a lot of conflict with typology  I don't know what my type is. I had a set type in mind for a long while, but it's not feeling right anymore. My vibes are very specific, and I don't feel like I necessarily 'fit in' with others of my supposed type. Be it enneagram, mbti, or even astrology. D:


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> Yeah PerC does SO much stereotyping. Like the whole "assume that Intuitives are some kind of rare unicorn and try to type everyone as a Sensor and say they just "want to be special" if they self-type as an Intuitive." But I was talking about more in the sense of having an online friend who you talk to one-on-one over a period of time, not like posting on a forum. I find it difficult to type people based on their forum posts.
> 
> idk, for me if I can't "feel" someone's main type right away, then I think in terms of tritype. And usually if I can't figure out their main type immediately, they turn out to have two fixes that are kind of "at odds" with each other (like 5/2 or 7/4). I almost never have a problem Enneagram typing people I know with that system. I mean obviously there has to be some baseline of getting to know someone before you can do that.
> 
> But in terms of "vibe typing" I think we may be talking about two different things. My definition of "vibe typing" is kind of feeling out what someone's type is without really thinking of the logical explanation behind it. Like being like "this guy seems like an 8 to me" rather than "hmmm, what are his core motivations?" I am very good at doing this with Enneagram but very bad at doing it with MBTI.


lmao about the unicorns. This was the problem I ran into with my 8 typing as well. For me it was really hard to accept and I kept on logicking my way out of it. But to the people on Perc an 8 is some kind of mystical untouchable super hero who is the pinnacle of badassery, and being that I have flaws, I use my brain, or I am sensitive, kind, or sentimental, I can't possibly be that cool. <rolls eyes>

As for the rest I'm kind of in the same camp. In general I don't really "think out the logic of things" but rather absorb & percolate. So I might meet someone because they want help with enneagram, but then I forget about enneagram altogether and get to know them as a person, and one day it just clicks. I've been better at this lately cuz I'm doing it more and also reading a variety of sources - 3 Naranjo books, Maitri, Palmer, R&H, anything I can find online ... So that doesn't hurt either ;p


----------



## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

Disfigurine said:


> *Vibes is how I read people and situations, I get a lot off of that, so that's the only real reason I place any importance on vibes etc.* I realize it isn't very 'tangible' and that can be difficult to explain.


yes, i do that too. interestingly, however, for me, the vibe is fully 'tangible'. it's a physical thing. words and speech, on the other hand, are the ones that are not tangible, and can be extremely misleading.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Disfigurine said:


> Vibes is how I read people and situations, I get a lot off of that, so that's the only real reason I place any importance on vibes etc. I realize it isn't very 'tangible' and that can be difficult to explain.
> 
> No, I just have a lot of conflict with typology  I don't know what my type is. I had a set type in mind for a long while, but it's not feeling right anymore. My vibes are very specific, and I don't feel like I necessarily 'fit in' with others of my supposed type. Be it enneagram, mbti, or even astrology. D:


but isn't a 4w5 *supposed* to feel like an alien of sorts? 

I also place importance in vibes- and I think the ways I read them are really hard to put into words, even though it definitely happens.


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

Maybe said:


> lmao about the unicorns.


I am a special rare unicorn kthnx.



> But to the people on Perc an 8 is some kind of mystical untouchable super hero who is the pinnacle of badassery, and being that I have flaws, I use my brain, or I am sensitive, kind, or sentimental, I can't possibly be that cool. <rolls eyes>


I never thought any of this about 8s, actually. I've met some pretty uncool 8s in my lifetime. I think if I ever romanticized any of the types, it was 5. I thought I was a 4w5 for a time. I even entertained type 5 as a _core_ for about .093 seconds.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Doll said:


> I never thought any of this about 8s, actually. I've met some pretty uncool 8s in my lifetime. I think if I ever romanticized any of the types, it was 5. I thought I was a 4w5 for a time, actually. I even entertained type 5 for about .093 seconds.


Dammit, Doll. Don't disturb the process of exposure of the ignorant asses process. 

..That sounded kinda kinky.


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Dammit, Doll. Don't disturb the process of exposure of the ignorant asses process.
> 
> ..That sounded kinda kinky.


*disturbs and kinks up*

The alliteration turned me on.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> yes. I often look more 3w4, 8w7, 9w8 or 1w9 than I do 7w6 (I seldom look like a head type)
> though my vibe fits my tritype nicely (confident, aristocratic, idealistic etc)


3w4 and 8w7 makes sense but you, 9w8??! Wow. Lol. 

I usually find I can place someone immediately under the "core id" or "core super ego" or "core withdrawn" category, but then it can take a while to get a sense of which one it actually is. 

And yes I agree that your vibe fits your tritype. I think even without stereotypes my vibe is still 847 more than 845 but the actual 7 thinking just isn't there and I can't make sense of this discrepancy. Gosh darn Fauvres *throws hands in air*


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Maybe said:


> lmao about the unicorns. This was the problem I ran into with my 8 typing as well. For me it was really hard to accept and I kept on logicking my way out of it. But to the people on Perc an 8 is some kind of mystical untouchable super hero who is the pinnacle of badassery, and being that I have flaws, I use my brain, or I am sensitive, kind, or sentimental, I can't possibly be that cool. <rolls eyes>


wow, people must really not know any Eights then. First of all Eights integrate to Two so OF COURSE it's possible for Eights to be kind and sentimental. And don't even get me started on sensitive. My brother is an Eight and he's the most sensitive (to criticism) person I know other than my mom...who is a 5w4 INTJ. In fact just last night my 8w7 ESTP friend spent like 3 hours angsting to me about his ex girlfriend and how he never thinks he'll find someone to fall in love with again. Most emotions are pretty universal, unless you're a psychopath.

Stereotypes. They help nobody.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Doll said:


> I am a special rare unicorn kthnx.
> 
> 
> 
> I never thought any of this about 8s, actually. I've met some pretty uncool 8s in my lifetime. I think if I ever romanticized any of the types, it was 5. I thought I was a 4w5 for a time. I even entertained type 5 as a _core_ for about .093 seconds.





kaleidoscope said:


> Dammit, Doll. Don't disturb the process of exposure of the ignorant asses process.
> 
> ..That sounded kinda kinky.





Doll said:


> *disturbs and kinks up*
> 
> The alliteration turned me on.


This just made me think of Marilyn Manson and how hot it is that he exposes that gorgeous ass ....

okay back to business - lol, I'm not referring to people on a type me or mistype hunt thread but rather, people who follow others around the enneagram forums who are obviously mistyped themselves and have no idea what they're talking about. 

I think the only types I have managed to romanticize are 1 and 4, oddly enough.


----------



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Maybe said:


> I think the only types I have managed to romanticize are 1 and 4, oddly enough.


4, really? How come?

Off topic: I've kinda always had a thing for gut types. Groundedness is just so yummy for some reason.


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Maybe said:


> okay back to business - lol, I'm not referring to people on a type me or mistype hunt thread but rather, people who follow others around the enneagram forums who are obviously mistyped themselves and have no idea what they're talking about.


People actually do that? Ok that doesn't surprise me too much.


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

Maybe said:


> This just made me think of Marilyn Manson and how hot it is that he exposes that gorgeous ass ....


Ewww do not want.


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> 4, really? How come?
> 
> Off topic: I've kinda always had a thing for gut types. Groundedness is just so yummy for some reason.




iawtc. 

Except 9s... no offense to 9s...

Guise, I'm curious. What's my vibe?


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> wow, people must really not know any Eights then. First of all Eights integrate to Two so OF COURSE it's possible for Eights to be kind and sentimental. And don't even get me started on sensitive. My brother is an Eight and he's the most sensitive (to criticism) person I know other than my mom...who is a 5w4 INTJ. In fact just last night my 8w7 ESTP friend spent like 3 hours angsting to me about his ex girlfriend and how he never thinks he'll find someone to fall in love with again. Most emotions are pretty universal, unless you're a psychopath.
> 
> Stereotypes. They help nobody.


8s: rejection type. Integrates to 2 (rejection type) and disintegrates to 5 (rejection type!) .....
wait.... but 8s are too *cool* to care....... 8s have gravitas and don't care what anyone thinks at all... I have had my heart broken, and i cared a lot.. must be a heart type..

Where did that stereotype come from anyway - is that even a logical jump?


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Maybe said:


> 3w4 and 8w7 makes sense but you, 9w8??! Wow. Lol.


motivations: no
outward demeanor: sometimes. I'm pretty chill (often to my detriment)
weaknesses: sometimes. I have a tendency to be extremely lazy and narcotize myself to avoid discomfort. 



> I usually find I can place someone immediately under the "core id" or "core super ego" or "core withdrawn" category, but then it can take a while to get a sense of which one it actually is.


same (Id, Superego and Ego is, in my opinion a far more significant triad system than head/heart/gut)



> And yes I agree that your vibe fits your tritype. I think even without stereotypes my vibe is still 847 more than 845 but the actual 7 thinking just isn't there and I can't make sense of this discrepancy. Gosh darn Fauvres *throws hands in air*


sorry, I still see you as a 874 XD


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Doll said:


> iawtc.
> 
> Except 9s... no offense to 9s...
> 
> ...


your vibe Is 4 and a half. With some 9 and 7 flavor. I would say that regardless of your current typing. Before I read all the books I've read lately I still would have guessed 4 but maybe not the others.


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Maybe said:


> 8s: rejection type. Integrates to 2 (rejection type) and disintegrates to 5 (rejection type!) .....
> wait.... but 8s are too *cool* to care....... 8s have gravitas and don't care what anyone thinks at all... I have had my heart broken, and i cared a lot.. must be a heart type..
> 
> Where did that stereotype come from anyway - is that even a logical jump?


I think the stereotype came from what many Eights WANT people to think about them. I've noticed that the "go-getter" types (Eights, Threes, and Sevens) often like to pretend that they don't have any real emotions. However, I've also noticed that this makes them even more disastrously emo when those defenses fail. (Does this also count as stereotyping?)


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> 4, really? How come?
> 
> Off topic: I've kinda always had a thing for gut types. Groundedness is just so yummy for some reason.



when I first encountered enneagram I was disintegrated and feeling kind of emotionally detached and if only I could be a 4, I would have so many emotions and I would actually care about people... (Irrational, I know, but I was very disintegrated , and also I only read R&H which described 4 as an artist and romantic which were parts of myself I felt I had lost :/ I mean I still had the art but in my diary I wrote that I couldn't tell my "groin" from my heart which should give an idea why I would idealize a heart type )


----------



## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

Maybe said:


> your vibe Is 4 and a half. With some 9 and 7 flavor. I would say that regardless of your current typing. Before I read all the books I've read lately I still would have guessed 4 but maybe not the others.


WUT. I am so insulted I am not 4 and 3/4. Scandalous!


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

As for idealizing types, I think I idealize every type, for different reasons. If I could choose to be any type I think I would be a 729 or 279 ENFJ.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

thismustbetheplace said:


> I think the stereotype came from what many Eights WANT people to think about them. I've noticed that the "go-getter" types (Eights, Threes, and Sevens) often like to pretend that they don't have any real emotions. However, I've also noticed that this makes them even more disastrously emo when those defenses fail. (Does this also count as stereotyping?)


guilty! :laughing: 
in the case of 7s, it's not so much that we want other people to think it, we're just masterfully good at avoiding thinking about it ourselves. coming to terms with my own sexual repression threw me into an emo state for several months. I've heard 7's depression described as "operatic" before, and I think that describes it nicely.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> I think the stereotype came from what many Eights WANT people to think about them. I've noticed that the "go-getter" types (Eights, Threes, and Sevens) often like to pretend that they don't have any real emotions. However, I've also noticed that this makes them even more disastrously emo when those defenses fail. (Does this also count as stereotyping?)





Swordsman of Mana said:


> guilty! :laughing:
> in the case of 7s, it's not so much that we want other people to think it, we're just masterfully good at avoiding thinking about it ourselves. coming to terms with my own sexual repression threw me into an emo state for several months. I've heard 7's depression described as "operatic" before, and I think that describes it nicely.


Damn! I was gonna write "guilty!" But you beat me to the punch. Damn the iPhone!


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> sorry, I still see you as a 874 XD


Haha don't be sorry - it is neither insulting nor unreasonable.


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> guilty! :laughing:
> in the case of 7s, it's not so much that we want other people to think it, we're just masterfully good at avoiding thinking about it ourselves. coming to terms with my own sexual repression threw me into an emo state for several months. I've heard 7's depression described as "operatic" before, and I think that describes it nicely.


Yeah I was kind of thinking of Roger Sterling from Mad Men while thinking about the "emo Seven." I don't know if you've ever watched Mad Men, but basically after he loses all relevance at his company and in his love life, he spends like 2 seasons moping around the office like a sad dramatic clown.

I think Threes and Eights have something of the drama too when they're being emo, in my experience anyway. But it's different for them. Definitely MBTI type influences their brand of dramatics too.

Does anyone else feel like the directions of integration/disintegration aren't entirely correct? I'm a Six and I definitely don't have disintegration to Three at all. I think I disintegrate more to Four. I do integrate to Nine though.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> Yeah I was kind of thinking of Roger Sterling from Mad Men while thinking about the "emo Seven." I don't know if you've ever watched Mad Men, but basically after he loses all relevance at his company and in his love life, he spends like 2 seasons moping around the office like a sad dramatic clown.
> 
> I think Threes and Eights have something of the drama too when they're being emo, in my experience anyway. But it's different for them. Definitely MBTI type influences their brand of dramatics too.
> 
> Does anyone else feel like the directions of integration/disintegration aren't entirely correct? I'm a Six and I definitely don't have disintegration to Three at all. I think I disintegrate more to Four. I do integrate to Nine though.


Can you describe the disintegration?


----------



## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Doll said:


> iawtc.
> 
> Except 9s... no offense to 9s...
> 
> ...


You vibe as 4-9w1. I don't really see as much direct 7ishness in you, though I get that it's there.

Curiosity's sake: What's my vibe? I don't really know, so it's hard to answer this thread.


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Maybe said:


> Can you describe the disintegration?


Well I can basically quote it directly from the Enneagram website:

*Level 7:* When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.
*Level 8:* Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.
*Level 9:* Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.

Another thing I do when I'm upset about my life is envy others. Like for example when I was upset about not having a boyfriend I would envy everyone who had a romantic partner and think of their lives as being idealized. Now that I'm worried about getting a job I am hugely envious of anyone who has stable employment, up to and including my own boyfriend. I've heard that Fours have a lot of envy.

I also become very fearful of things like death and failure. But I also tend to do that when things are going well (ie. "everything seems too easy, this MUST be a trap!")

Unhealthy Threes, meanwhile, lie, decieve, and manipulate. Definitely not me at all.

Oh and another thing I do is try to avoid responsibility. Like severe procrastination, being so afraid to do things like exams or job searches that it actually hurts me more in the long run than if I had just faced it. Currently doing that at this moment, actually.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Maybe said:


> Haha don't be sorry - it is neither insulting nor unreasonable.


8 with a 5 fix is more sinister, like a predator biding it's time in the grass. the 5 fix brings a fixation on planning and advancement of goals via strategy. 
8 with a 7 fix is more lust for life. the 7 fix brings added enthusiasm, ambition and a more fiery, charismatic personality


854 is more
















874 is more













854: The Witch, The Serial Killer

847: The Angry Diva, The 

PS: yes, I type largely by vibe :wink:


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

@Swordsman of Mana

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...e-haz-brain-fix-847-vs-845-a.html#post3702135

Lol. That 847 realllllly fits o.0


----------



## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

Maybe said:


> Do you think vibe typing is possible online or just in person / video / personal interaction?


Vibe-typing online works for me, to an extent. It's usually easy to interact with someone online and figure out their MBTI, but it's a lot easier to pick up vibes in person/video/personal interaction. Picking up a person's core Etype online is usually easy, but anything beyond that is difficult for me to pick up...


The vibe.. it's a mixture of everything together. I think personal interaction for a period of time is the best way to pick up all of the subtitles of someone's enneagram. 

As far as 7 goes... I'm not sure, it's possible it's your last fix, but I think everything about your personality is a lot stronger than your last fix so it's hard to tell! It could be just from you being an 8w7. :/

Up for skyping? :kitteh:


----------



## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

1. Thank you Maybe you always raise questions or say something that benefits me and teaches me. 
2. Catalyst rawr ..you are too damned cute. Make my 7 side happy. 
3. Swordsman of mana- you just helped my pick mine too. grazi.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

> Has this happened to anyone?


Definitely. I know I come across as more 8, to some even 1 than my own type. 
I am not entirely opposed to the possibility that I may be a 7w8. 


> Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?


If the person commenting on my type is someone I consider 1. knowledgeable in the theory 2. either close to me/making an active attempt to get to know me closer, asking the right questions etc., I will pay attention to what they have to say. It doesn't cause any "confusion"; it just gives me something to chew on. 
I like such discussions, and I don't mind if I am thought of as mistyped as long as the conversation is productive. 


> Are you still uncertain of your type, wings, and fixes for reasons like this?


My gut fix is going to be a bit of a mystery, leaning more 8 than 1. It doesn't bother me. My heart and head fix have been zeroed in on for years now.


> Do you think "vibe" typing has any merit? If so, how much or how little?


See, vibe typing by itself has no merit, unless one is typing celebs or whatever for fun, and then, not much in the name of merit enters the equation fmp. 

One reason why I co-created the Enneagram questionnaire was that people were often simply typed by 'vibes', and that was a grossly ineffective method of typing by itself. There's definitely something to be said of intuition/instinct in typing someone, and I have, myself, correctly typed several people by following my intuition, but this has always been supplemented by a solid knowledge base in Enneagram theory as well as careful observation of the individual/by playing close attention to what someone is sharing with me about an individual (like parent, SO, sibling or what have you) in case of second hand typings. @_Maybe_ and I have had those discussions, and intuitively, I've pointed her in the right direction at times, since we ended up with the same conclusion. 

So, "vibe typing" per se has no merit. But, intuition combined with close observation AND solid Enneagram base has merit. "Vibe" typing can be the breeding ground for stereotyping, because minus E-knowledge and observation, that's all it really is. So, when someone just says so and so seems like Type X and either provides poor reasoning/stereotyped explanations/personal assumptions grounded in past conflicts as opposed to objective observations, they're obviously bullshitting you. That's the problem with "vibe typing". Most people who over-rely on it are spewing nonsense. 

You just have to evaluate whether their "vibe" aspect is supplemented by strong theoretical grounding, solid reasoning and good observation skills. If not, discredit the idiocy.


----------



## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Maybe, interesting thread! I really enjoyed reading your posts. Here's my input:

*EDIT:* note, I find it hard to verbalize vibes, I only end up using adjectives.




Maybe said:


> Enneagram types - core types, wing, tritypes - tend to be associated with a certain "vibe." Sometimes, this immediate vibe is congruent with the type or tritype. But then there are cases when someone "feels" like a certain type, but the motives don't pan out to that same type.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone?
> Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?
> ...


Hmm, yes to all of those.

I have got an impression of someone based on behavior including both non-verbal and verbal cues and then become confused when the self-typing of that particular person has been different from that. It always leaves me in this huge curiosity to know what's really the truth.

The same has happened to me, people rarely think I'm 621, not even 6, I just don't come across that way.

I've heard many things I cannot explain so that those would make sense and a coherent picture. Very upbeat, dramatic, not very conscientious, just plainly weird, even embarrassing, socially ignorant, too selfish and jaunty, too controlling and overconfident wiseguy not seeming to consider _I_ might be wrong and just too sure I know best, placing myself above others without really taking others' feelings into consideration or being able to say things nicely. 

Does that sound like what I think of myself? Does that even sound like 621? Nope, not all of that at least. Upbeat, intense, unorthodox I recognize and that's the vibe my friends pick too. But too self-assertive and blunt, that's something I'm either not or not aware of, I don't know why people get that kind of vibes. I know I like to share what I know but I didn't think people would observe it to be blunt.

Well, most of those were coming from my SO, some are things he never dared to say before and things that surprised me a bit recently, I just started to laugh after hearing those, it was a confusing situation, he got me really perplexed for once xD Frankly I don't know what to think of all that. It's too huge contrast to ignore or laugh off completely, maybe there's a little point somewhere there, I've heard something not that extreme but similar anyway from my family, but still, I cannot believe I come across totally like _that_, not in the way when it's a bad thing. I'd be curious to know what kind of vibe I give to other people, this does confuse me a bit. Maybe even more because of CFs than Enneagram.





Maybe said:


> What is your experience with vibes online vs in person?
> 
> (addressed to everyone )


I have little experience, there's only one person I've actually met in person and even that wasn't after online chatting but after seeing a video. Of course I picked more when meeting in person but the video was not controversial to this.

I have been chatting with some people online, people I have not met in person, and I do think you can make some kind of valuations of their typings. Certain types and vibes just don't match. I want to pay more attention to what's underneath than to the behavior but I won't ignore the vibes I get, that would be ignoring valuable information and that's just plainly stupid.




Maybe said:


> I have yet to vibe type someone accurately aside from my father. My fathers type is impossible to miss- he practically has a TyPe SeVeN tattoo on his forehead with an ENTP sign on both cheeks. I second guessed myself at one point and typed him at 3, but that was partially due to personal issues I was having with enneagram at the time and misleading source material.


Heh, I think that when you're living with someone you are so close that you get to see the most of or the whole personality. You miss getting the first impression where you first pick the most obvious things. 

I still struggle typing people very close to me because I always ignore certain issues. My mum for example, she's just incredibly obvious sp/so 6 but I didn't see that by myself. My SO typed her that and after he explained what he saw I saw the 6 in her too. We still disagree about my dad's type, what he thinks himself is what my SO thinks and what I used to think, that he's 9, but nowadays I've started to think it more in depth and just don't understand how a non-5 could be _that_ secretive and non-sharing, the man is a closed book in many ways, he's a happy loner and while my dad, I know pretty much nothing personal about him. The things I know are things I've read or heard elsewhere. I type him sp/sx 529, INTP. He's even somewhat eccentric and intellectually curious, I always got along with him better than my mum. 

I also struggled typing my brothers, at first I typed them 8w7 and 9w8, then thought the first one was cp 6 and the other one phobic 6 -- nowadays I'm sure I was right at first. They both give the kind of vibes I'd assume 8s and 9s to give and they both relate to those types. The other comes across charismatic, intense and controlling, sometimes also protective or intimidating and incredibly selfish. The other more collected, intellectual and stubborn but sometimes also very sweet and kind. 

My SO is the one person I know the best but also the one I have struggled with the most. First impression based on the kind of person he was when we met would be type 1 but he's also very self-critical, pessimistic, questioning and anxious and annoyingly fond of security and knowing everything in advance. He types himself 6w7 but he also said once he wouldn't want to be seen as type 1, that he would like to think he was seen as someone more positive, good with people and fun. He can be that but often he's a lot more serious than that. He's sp/so and sp/so 1s could seem very 6ish too so I could see him type 1. I used to type him ISTJ because he does not like changes and does pay so much weight on details and knowing in advance etc. but he's actually INTJ, I totally suck at noticing Ni xD, I realized that when I realized he's S-inferior. He's a planner but his approach is so different from mine, I come up with random things I could do now or some day, he plans our whole future and how it's going to go, how happenings follow each other. 




Maybe said:


> I think the fact that you realize it's hard means that you're putting a lot of thought into it and doing it "right." Of course there are many right ways to do things and no system is fool proof... But I've learned that when I get into a new hobby or interest, at first I think "oh I can do this !!" And then I learn enough that I suddenly realize how much I *don't* know. This is probably true of enneagram as a system- that it takes a lot of investment to be competent enough to "vibe type" or type at All with accuracy - but I think there is also a learning curve to each individual psyche as well.
> 
> So what I am saying is I think you're smart to recognize that it's hard this early in the game .


Yeah. The more you know, the more you become aware of things you DON'T know xD I hate it how university has made me realize I'm such an ignorant person in many, many fields xD


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I always vibe type people when I type others one way or another. Looking for the concrete just isn't my thing when typing people. I try to look for deeper meanings and hidden motivations and this can be easily discerned in people's posts if you just know where to look. It's not so much whether someone seems say, "ceberal", as much it is about whether someone seems say, "narcissist". Any type can for instance seem cerebral for various reasons, but only one type will be narcissist and that is type 7.

As for myself, apparently people think I either vibe as a 4w5, CP6w5 (although I have yet to hear proper reasoning for that) and 1-fixed. I wonder if the reason people have such issues properly "vibing" my type is because I'm an 8-fixed sx 5. I assume we're not that common as a whole. People seem to have the idea of 5s being sp and 9-fixed.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> Yeah I was kind of thinking of Roger Sterling from Mad Men while thinking about the "emo Seven." I don't know if you've ever watched Mad Men, but basically after he loses all relevance at his company and in his love life, he spends like 2 seasons moping around the office like a sad dramatic clown.
> 
> I think Threes and Eights have something of the drama too when they're being emo, in my experience anyway. But it's different for them. Definitely MBTI type influences their brand of dramatics too.
> 
> Does anyone else feel like the directions of integration/disintegration aren't entirely correct? I'm a Six and I definitely don't have disintegration to Three at all. *I think I disintegrate more to Four.* I do integrate to Nine though.


Did you ever consider core 1? It's also a superego type, competency driven and sp 1s can seem like 6s in that they also seek security and they both integrate towards positive outlook types.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Flatliner said:


> Curiosity's sake: What's my vibe? I don't really know, so it's hard to answer this thread.


When I first came to PerC, you were the only 5 I encountered immediately on the 5 forum who seemed *incredibly* 5ish. I think my first email to you was: Hmm, maybe I'm not really a 5?? =p
I know you better now and I still think you're the 5est 5. 
@LeaT is also very 5ish but not in the stereotypical way. @Flatliner - you are more of a prototype, probably because of your 9 fix and ironically the 2 fix as well - as you pointed out, people would think it opposes 5 but neither type is willing to 'have needs' so it actually ends up making you more 5ish. @LeaT has more 4 and 8 fire & reactivity which makes her less textbook but at the end of the day she's equally 5ish, and I've come to associate type 5 with that type of passion for knowledge and 'getting it right' and getting to the bottom of things, which both of you have in spades. This is part of why I find it so funny that people think 5s are boring or aren't passionate. You don't have to be an emotional drama queen to be passionate.



thismustbetheplace said:


> Well I can basically quote it directly from the Enneagram website:
> 
> *Level 7:* When dreams fail, become self-inhibiting and angry at self, depressed and alienated from self and others, blocked and emotionally paralyzed. Ashamed of self, fatigued and unable to function.
> *Level 8:* Tormented by delusional self-contempt, self-reproaches, self-hatred, and morbid thoughts: everything is a source of torment. Blaming others, they drive away anyone who tries to help them.
> *Level 9:* Despairing, feel hopeless and become self-destructive, possibly abusing alcohol or drugs to escape. In the extreme: emotional breakdown or suicide is likely. Generally corresponds to the Avoidant, Depressive, and Narcissistic personality disorders.



I saw @LeaT asked you if you're sure you're a 6 and not 1, so I won't ask the question again (we obviously know that 1 disintegrates to 4 ) - and this description DOES sound like the 1s that I know when they disintegrate. but!! You seem pretty knowledgable about enneagram so if you are *sure* you're a 6, there is still some chance this could be accurate as I will demonstrate below.

btw, have you read Naranjo Character & Neurosis?



> Another thing I do when I'm upset about my life is envy others. Like for example when I was upset about not having a boyfriend I would envy everyone who had a romantic partner and think of their lives as being idealized. Now that I'm worried about getting a job I am hugely envious of anyone who has stable employment, up to and including my own boyfriend. I've heard that Fours have a lot of envy.


3s have envy, too. Specifically pertaining to not having the same assets as other people. When you say someone else has a better job, better boyfriend.... this is actually exactly how a 3 would envy. A 3 would build up what they think is the image they want to embody and achieve, and if they see that someone else has these assets they can be very envious. My friend is a classic, textbook prototype 3 and she is definitely typed correctly - when I talk to her, 3 practically seeps from her very veins, and this has been said by anyone who knows enneagram and knows her. She also experiences these exact feelings when someone specifically achieves something she is after or has a better achievement.

She and I were talking about power, and she was saying she's jealous of someone who has more power than her- a hotter boyfriend, a better job, etc. For me, as an 8, I am not jealous of people who have more or better than me. What upsets me is if someone has power *oveR* me. For instance, I can't stand it if I'm not the one on the lease; and I don't even like sharing a lease. As long as my name is on the lease and I am in charge of the apartment where I live, and nobody can tell me what to do, I'll be very compassionate with my roommates. But the minute that someone else has that power I'm very uncomfortable. However, if I had a best friend that had more money and a better apartment or even owned a whole building, I would not be jealous.. I'd be thrilled for her... unless of course, she was MY landlord; and then I would resent that she has power over *me*. See the difference? But that envy of someone else's achievement or betterment IS very type 3.



> I also become very fearful of things like death and failure. But I also tend to do that when things are going well (ie. "everything seems too easy, this MUST be a trap!")


Fear of failure? That's exactly type 3.



> Unhealthy Threes, meanwhile, lie, decieve, and manipulate. Definitely not me at all.


Yeah but that's just textbook stuff. Unhealthy 5s become schizophrenic and out of touch with reality, and I was WILDLY unhealthy and I had to take copious amounts of mind - altering substances to even come close to losing touch with reality, much as I wished I could. =p



> Oh and another thing I do is try to avoid responsibility. Like severe procrastination, being so afraid to do things like exams or job searches that it actually hurts me more in the long run than if I had just faced it. Currently doing that at this moment, actually.


Hmmm.. this might just be most people when they're unhealthy but I'm not sure.



cata.lyst.rawr said:


> As far as 7 goes... I'm not sure, it's possible it's your last fix, but I think everything about your personality is a lot stronger than your last fix so it's hard to tell! It could be just from you being an 8w7. :/


It's funny because I have seen enough 5 in myself to even mistype at 5 core, but now I am questioning if it's even a fix! =p Silly me.

However, I think the 'whole picture' 847 fits my personality better than the 'whole picture' vibe 845. That being said, when I break down my motives I DO gain power by withdrawing. But could that be more of my 4 fix and the fact that 8 disintegrates to 5? It's a bit convoluted. I typed out a bunch of stuff in that thread that points to 7 but I didn't type out the 5 stuff which there is also an abundance of. I'll do that soon.



> Up for skyping? :kitteh:


I'd love to =) Message me your skype & I will send mine. =D



LeoCat said:


> 1. Thank you Maybe you always raise questions or say something that benefits me and teaches me.


Aww! Glad. Your post actually made me think, on @cata.lyst.rawr's thread about 8s and their different MBTI types. I saw that you wrote that you were nice to someone, and then he was taken aback when you put your foot down and didn't take his shit? Because you're an ENFP 8? I have the *exact* same experience - I just haven't gotten around to answering that thread yet. In fact part of the reason I didn't is because your post was exactly the same thing I would say, so it would be a bit redundant... =p but I will, soon. 



> 2. Catalyst rawr ..you are too damned cute. Make my 7 side happy.


^ That she is 



> 3. Swordsman of mana- you just helped my pick mine too. grazi.


Wait - does this mean we're both ENFP 8s with the same tritype, if I end up being 7 fixed? Even if I settle on 5 fix - that's a lot of stuff to have in common :O



Boss said:


> Definitely. I know I come across as more 8, to some even 1 than my own type.
> I am not entirely opposed to the possibility that I may be a 7w8.


^ I have considered this type for you too. When it comes to your typing, there's just so much id that sometimes it's hard to pull those ids apart & figure out which one is the core. I have this problem with a close friend who is triple-superego as well. And then you have people like @Dying Acedia who are triple withdrawn and probably it would have taken me a long time to figure out which one was the core, if he didn't figure it out so damn well for himself. =p



> If the person commenting on my type is someone I consider 1. knowledgeable in the theory 2. either close to me/making an active attempt to get to know me closer, asking the right questions etc., I will pay attention to what they have to say. It doesn't cause any "confusion"; it just gives me something to chew on.


^ That is a very logical/good approach. =D



> One reason why I co-created the Enneagram questionnaire was that people were often simply typed by 'vibes', and that was a grossly ineffective method of typing by itself. There's definitely something to be said of intuition/instinct in typing someone, and I have, myself, correctly typed several people by following my intuition, but this has always been supplemented by a solid knowledge base in Enneagram theory as well as careful observation of the individual/by playing close attention to what someone is sharing with me about an individual (like parent, SO, sibling or what have you) in case of second hand typings. @_Maybe_ and I have had those discussions, and intuitively, I've pointed her in the right direction at times, since we ended up with the same conclusion.


Yes you can be *really* good at that, eerily so. When you have a strong vibe about someone it can end up being right very often. That being said I think you were smart to co-create the questionnaire because as you mention, there needs to be more than just intuition and vibe.



LeaT said:


> I always vibe type people when I type others one way or another. Looking for the concrete just isn't my thing when typing people. I try to look for deeper meanings and hidden motivations and this can be easily discerned in people's posts if you just know where to look. It's not so much whether someone seems say, "ceberal", as much it is about whether someone seems say, "narcissist". Any type can for instance seem cerebral for various reasons, but only one type will be narcissist and that is type 7.


"Looking for deeper meanings" - you also do this very naturally being a Fi lead and a 5.



> As for myself, apparently people think I either vibe as a 4w5, CP6w5 (although I have yet to hear proper reasoning for that) and 1-fixed. I wonder if the reason people have such issues properly "vibing" my type is because I'm an 8-fixed sx 5. I assume we're not that common as a whole. People seem to have the idea of 5s being sp and 9-fixed.


Your "vibe" to me was more 8 than 1, but I kept an open mind as I got to know you. In the end it became beyond clear that my initial reaction was correct and you were 8 fixed. As for the other vibe, there was a time when I thought you could be a 4w5... 6, for you, never crossed my mind. Also, I think the only reason I thought 4 was a possibility over 5 is because I had not read my proper sources yet. Knowing what I know now, you are *nothing* like a masochist core. So I think if I met you now, I'd type you at 5 right away but I would probably be aware that there's some intense stuff going on with your tritype (for example, 5w4-4w5 overlap and also the 5 line to 8 overlap.)


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I decided to reply separately to this one because there was so much content =D



zallla said:


> Maybe, interesting thread! I really enjoyed reading your posts. Here's my input:
> 
> *EDIT:* note, I find it hard to verbalize vibes, I only end up using adjectives.



Aw thank you =D Glad you enjoyed it!

I have the same problem with verbalizing vibes. I have a lot of trouble putting a lot of things into words. Even with the novel I'm writing, the vibes & characters are clear, and I write out good action & conversation but then I get caught up on descriptions and can't figure out how to convey what I'm trying to. It really should have been written in screen form, but I'm so stubborn about wanting it to be a book before a movie. =(



> Hmm, yes to all of those.
> 
> I have got an impression of someone based on behavior including both non-verbal and verbal cues and then become confused when the self-typing of that particular person has been different from that. It always leaves me in this huge curiosity to know what's really the truth.


Speaking of vibe-typing, this sounded so 6ish (the underlined) 



> The same has happened to me, people rarely think I'm 621, not even 6, I just don't come across that way.
> 
> I've heard many things I cannot explain so that those would make sense and a coherent picture. Very upbeat, dramatic, not very conscientious, just plainly weird, even embarrassing, socially ignorant, too selfish and jaunty, too controlling and overconfident wiseguy not seeming to consider _I_ might be wrong and just too sure I know best, placing myself above others without really taking others' feelings into consideration or being able to say things nicely.
> 
> ...


I will look at more of your posts and let you know if I notice a vibe.  So far, I've gotten mostly a 6ish vibe. That being said, you know that I don't think vibes are everything; though they are certainly *something* - especially if a lot of different people seem to get a similar vibe, so that it's about 'you' rather than about 'them' necessarily.



> I have little experience, there's only one person I've actually met in person and even that wasn't after online chatting but after seeing a video. Of course I picked more when meeting in person but the video was not controversial to this.
> 
> I have been chatting with some people online, people I have not met in person, and I do think you can make some kind of valuations of their typings. Certain types and vibes just don't match. I want to pay more attention to what's underneath than to the behavior but I won't ignore the vibes I get, that would be ignoring valuable information and that's just plainly stupid.


Agreed.

What's funny is, I can get all sorts of different vibes from someone (good example of this is @Boss - I have changed my mind on her type about 9 times even though it just keeps going from one id type to the next, lol) .... but usually, once it "clicks" what their type is, I can't help but see it *everywhere.* It's like all of a sudden, every word, every post, every gesture; bleeds that type. It's like "HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS BEFORE OMG"



> Heh, I think that when you're living with someone you are so close that you get to see the most of or the whole personality. You miss getting the first impression where you first pick the most obvious things.


This is true, but I didn't 'pick up' my mother's personality or my brother's, even though I *still* live with my brother. I haven't lived with my parents in.. hmmm 13 years? .. but my father seriously has TyPe SeVeN tattoos on every limb, lol. As soon as he meets someone, within minutes, he basically says in so many words, "Hi, I'm ALWAYS planning, but I don't like looking inwards - I have an extremely high IQ, you'll never meet anyone smarter than me - oh, did I tell you that I'm narcissistic? But what's wrong with being a narcissist? All I want to do is have fun and I LOVE eating and self-indulging. I am going to charm your pants off now." =p To his credit, for a person who "doesnt like looking inward," he CERTAINLY knows himself well. 



> I still struggle typing people very close to me because I always ignore certain issues. My mum for example, she's just incredibly obvious sp/so 6 but I didn't see that by myself. My SO typed her that and after he explained what he saw I saw the 6 in her too. We still disagree about my dad's type, what he thinks himself is what my SO thinks and what I used to think, that he's 9, but nowadays I've started to think it more in depth and just don't understand how a non-5 could be _that_ secretive and non-sharing, the man is a closed book in many ways, he's a happy loner and while my dad, I know pretty much nothing personal about him. The things I know are things I've read or heard elsewhere. I type him sp/sx 529, INTP. He's even somewhat eccentric and intellectually curious, I always got along with him better than my mum.


Ah interesting. Is your SO very into enneagram?
Also what is it like having a father who is a 529 INTP?



> I also struggled typing my brothers, at first I typed them 8w7 and 9w8, then thought the first one was cp 6 and the other one phobic 6 -- nowadays I'm sure I was right at first. They both give the kind of vibes I'd assume 8s and 9s to give and they both relate to those types. The other comes across charismatic, intense and controlling, sometimes also protective or intimidating and incredibly selfish. The other more collected, intellectual and stubborn but sometimes also very sweet and kind.


Are they older than you?
My brother is a phobic 6 and I am an 8, so your family dynamic is pretty interesting to me. =D I would love to hear more about this!
Also what is your father's type?



> My SO is the one person I know the best but also the one I have struggled with the most. First impression based on the kind of person he was when we met would be type 1 but he's also very self-critical, pessimistic, questioning and anxious and annoyingly fond of security and knowing everything in advance. He types himself 6w7 but he also said once he wouldn't want to be seen as type 1, that he would like to think he was seen as someone more positive, good with people and fun. He can be that but often he's a lot more serious than that. He's sp/so and sp/so 1s could seem very 6ish too so I could see him type 1. I used to type him ISTJ because he does not like changes and does pay so much weight on details and knowing in advance etc. but he's actually INTJ, I totally suck at noticing Ni xD, I realized that when I realized he's S-inferior. He's a planner but his approach is so different from mine, I come up with random things I could do now or some day, he plans our whole future and how it's going to go, how happenings follow each other.


So you think he's a 1, I'm gathering?
It reminds me of how I didn't want to type at 8 because I didn't want to think of myself as vengeful or sadistic. =(
At the end of the day, none of the neuroses are worse than another; but it's hard to see that. Because my own set of neuroses seems like the worst, cruelest, most disgusting one. But then in someone else's eyes, theirs is worse, because they know what that feels like from within, and all of its bad potentials.

Have you and your SO read Naranjo, Maitri etc? Where does he get his info for his self-assessment?
Also, I don't think 1s aren't fun. My mother is probably the sweetest woman I've met to date =p and most people think she's pretty sweet, although she IS an obsessive perfectionist to the bone. She is so friendly and smiles a lot.... and kind and welcoming.. but she's pretty stern about having things done the way they should be; however, nobody would know this except for her immediate family. She is an amazing mother, and does not force us to "buy" certain values or religion or any of those other stereotypes. She's accepting of who I am (even though I am NOT easy and most parents probably wouldn't accept me the way I am... sorry if that sounds overtly 4ish, because it is!) ... She supported my dreams in becoming a musician because I loved it, and she allowed me to be open with her about my sexual concerns even though she warned me of the pitfalls etc. She is absolutely fun, loves skating and art and all sorts of fun activities. She's not the textbook boring 1 that people think. She's beyond fun and sweet and enjoyable, but she IS DEFINITELY a 1; even self-typed that way. So, you can tell your SO I said that, if it comes up. 



> Yeah. The more you know, the more you become aware of things you DON'T know xD I hate it how university has made me realize I'm such an ignorant person in many, many fields xD


Haha, yeah... I think I'm lucky to have at least realized this concept at a young age in music, because I started studying music young and this became clear to me - but, I still fall into the same trap of thinking I know more than I do, until I reach that point of "holy shit, there really is so much I don't know" - and that s part of why I am re-considering 7 fix; because I think 5s and 5 fixers would be more likely to feel like they don't know enough from day 1. I do have a lot of 5ish behaviors too - like my main strategy for gaining power IS through withdrawing..... but , when it comes to knowledge I usually have to go through the process of being humbled after I have already impulsively marched in with my vision and agenda.... *blush*


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Flatliner is one the most obvious 5 typings I have seen.


----------



## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

zallla said:


> The same has happened to me, people rarely think I'm 621, not even 6, I just don't come across that way.
> 
> I've heard many things I cannot explain so that those would make sense and a coherent picture. Very upbeat, dramatic, not very conscientious, just plainly weird, even embarrassing, socially ignorant, too selfish and jaunty, too controlling and overconfident wiseguy not seeming to consider _I_ might be wrong and just too sure I know best, placing myself above others without really taking others' feelings into consideration or being able to say things nicely.
> 
> Does that sound like what I think of myself? Does that even sound like 621? Nope, not all of that at least. Upbeat, intense, unorthodox I recognize and that's the vibe my friends pick too. But too self-assertive and blunt, that's something I'm either not or not aware of, I don't know why people get that kind of vibes. I know I like to share what I know but I didn't think people would observe it to be blunt.


Damn, now that I think about it, I'm REALLY interested in talking to a 6 and getting to know them more! 6s can be the hardest type for me to pin down sometimes. I dated an ISTJ CP 6 for nine months but I didn't know about enneagram back then so I never got to closely compare. One of my good friends is another CP 6. But from reading your posts it doesn't sound like you're all the rebelliousness that I've typed out 6s to be. Hmmm :3 We shall skype this weekend!






LeaT said:


> I always vibe type people when I type others one way or another. Looking for the concrete just isn't my thing when typing people. I try to look for deeper meanings and hidden motivations and this can be easily discerned in people's posts if you just know where to look. It's not so much whether someone seems say, "ceberal", as much it is about whether someone seems say, "narcissist". Any type can for instance seem cerebral for various reasons, but only one type will be narcissist and that is type 7.


I think most 5s and 8s I've talked with on here can seem pretty similar in the sense that they're both usually very controlled in their writing, cynical, and not extremely expressive, like me for example. You don't have 20 cat faces scattered throughout your text lol. But telling the difference is easier when you start talking to them more.. usually I can pick up subtle hints from both that say either "I'm an 8", or "I'm a 5". With 8s you just get that... intense gut type feeling. With 5s it's more of a cerebral, detached intelligence type feeling. 

Then again, I have to pay attention that their MBTI type and other enneagram fixes could influence them too o.o Ugh typing is so much easier in person, it's easier to pick up subtleties and 'vibes'. I can always pick out 2s in someone's enneagram, those are easy to spot. 4s can be easy to pick up of course..

NARCISSISM. I'm coming to terms lately with this... I think I'm much more narcissistic than I'm ready to admit. I can see how it's a 7 thing though. It's interesting that we can come off as the narcissists... but it's true :/ Seeing this from other 7s... so true lol. I think we all like to think we're really interesting and fun and people are interested in us. I noticed at my unhealthiest levels I would get offended when people didn't think I was interesting or pay attention to me. 

Thank god I'm healthier now 





Swordsman of Mana said:


>




This song is amazing in every way <3





Swordsman of Mana said:


> 874 is more



She's such a bad ass <3





LeoCat said:


> 1. Thank you Maybe you always raise questions or say something that benefits me and teaches me.
> 2. Catalyst rawr ..you are too damned cute. Make my 7 side happy.
> 3. Swordsman of mana- you just helped my pick mine too. grazi.


Thaaaaaank you aaw :kitteh: We should skype sometime :3 I'm getting all up in this skyping business. Or even google hangouts. People love 8s, they're kind of a hot topic lol. I'm sure recording a type interaction vid would be fun 

What’s your tritype?





Maybe said:


> It's funny because I have seen enough 5 in myself to even mistype at 5 core, but now I am questioning if it's even a fix! =p Silly me.


Maybe, the *last* thing I would have typed your core etype at was a five since I've been reading your posts!!! Too expressive and passionate and ... not saying that 5s can't be  Just not the normal vibe I pick up from a 5. At all. Not sure if it would be your last fix though  

Being a 7, I do sense some 7 in you somewhere, whether that's your 8w7 or a 7 fix. But 8s and 7s have a lot of passion for life and experiences... so it could appear similar in that sense. 



Maybe said:


> However, I think the 'whole picture' 847 fits my personality better than the 'whole picture' vibe 845. That being said, when I break down my motives I DO gain power by withdrawing. But could that be more of my 4 fix and the fact that 8 disintegrates to 5? It's a bit convoluted. I typed out a bunch of stuff in that thread that points to 7 but I didn't type out the 5 stuff which there is also an abundance of. I'll do that soon.


LET ME TELL YOU, since my tritype is 749, how I think my 7 and my 4 interact :kitteh:

7 of course is first and foremost. We all know about core 7s so I won't elaborate too much lol. But it gives me the excitement and upbeat optimism and zest for life and new experiences. (Notice how I can never pick just one adjective to describe something? I want ALL the adjectives!!  ) Gives me my almost boundless energy. 

Then the 4 comes in. When I was average and unhealthy, I could identify with the shame of four. I had a *LOT* of guilt in my past. When I was insecure I could relate to the envy of 4. When I was sensitive and concerned with what others thought of me, I could relate to the withdrawing, and justifying it by telling myself that I'm unique and special and that no one understands me, like a 4. I can identify with the melancholy of 4. 7s want to escape bad emotions, right? Well I wanted to dwell with them. I wanted think and over-analyze and be with them, even they they made me so utterly miserable. I wanted to stew in my raw emotions. 

When I'm healthy though, my 4 makes me creative and unique, but not in a withdrawn way.. in a very self-accepting way  I don't get envious. I don't get offended when others don't show appreciation for my strangeness, and I don't withdraw. I have little shame controlling me now. No guilt of my past holding me back... I've confronted it all. The reason I'm not a core 4 is because the drive to be different and unique isn't my MAIN drive... my happiness isn't based on how unique I am lol.. It's just kind of an effortless awesome side effect  BUT I'm not as creative as a 4. I'm actually not artistic at all, in music or art or dance... I'm not disciplined enough to work on and become skilled in things like art or music. (That's my 7 talking). My creativity comes out in other aspects of my life tho, like in my relationships and in my self-expression with clothing and rave-gear and makeup. 

I think even though your 4 is your second fix too, the 8 gives you the discipline to really get skilled in areas of creativity, like your writing 




Maybe said:


> I'd love to =) Message me your skype & I will send mine. =D


OKAY 





Maybe said:


> ^ That she is


:kitteh:



*STEREOTYPICAL VIBES I PICK UP FROM WRITING*
1 - ??
2 - Super nice and understanding and willing to help ^_^ kind of a selfless feeling, with a bit of haughtiness haha
3 - ??
4 - The suffering artist. A raging sea of emotions that they're familiar with and love (and hate). Passionate, expressive, deep. 
5 - Cerebral, detached, aloof, intelligent. Analyzing. 
6 - ??
7 - Optimistic, fun, interesting, happy-go-lucky, energetic, enthusiastic, crazy, narcissistic..
8 - Intense, straight-forward, controlled, intelligent, fearless.
9 - Very understanding and peaceful vibe. 

Can you help me out with the other ones? :kitteh:


----------



## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

Oh wait those were 6, right? xD Here are 7s:

*Level 7:* Desperate to quell their anxieties, can be impulsive and infantile: do not know when to stop. Addictions and excess take their toll: debauched, depraved, dissipated escapists, offensive and abusive. 
*Level 8:* In flight from self, acting out impulses rather than dealing with anxiety or frustrations: go out of control, into erratic mood swings, and compulsive actions (manias). 
*Level 9:* Finally, their energy and health is completely spent: become claustrophobic and panic-stricken. Often give up on themselves and life: deep depression and despair, self-destructive overdoses, impulsive suicide. Generally corresponds to the Bipolar disorder and Histrionic personality disorder. 


This more aligns with what I was talking about 

YUUUUUUUUP. I've been to the lowest of the low before. And you could Definitely call me narcissistic and bipolar at that time. Manic. Everything at these levels I could relate to at my lowest point... It's actually really scary and crazy, and I was afraid I was actually starting to show signs of being bipolar. Imagine all of that 7 energy twisted in upon itself into something so dark and volatile and uncontrollable...

*Level 7: *When my reality was shattered, I partied. I abused. I tried to escape. I ran. All of my ridiculous out of control behavior seemed justifiable to me. I didn't know when to stop... I acted on all of my impulses, no control. If I wanted something, it didn't matter if I hurt someone else to get it. I would ditch friends to go to another party. Whatever seemed more interesting and fun at the time, even though I couldn't find joy or happiness in anything... I risked so much. I denied I was unhappy. Denied I was a bad, selfish friend. I was literally CRAZY. Like literally crazy. Manic. It gets worse...

*Level 8: *Super out of reality and tormented at this point. Just a freakin ball of misery... Reality is hidden behind all the crazy thoughts I focus on and over analyze over and over and dwell with and can't let go... Drove myself crazy. Hated myself. Morbid thoughts... started thinking about death for the first time in my life. I BLAMED OTHERS. I blamed myself but I blamed others more. "It's their fault they did this to me, it's their fault I'm so out of control right now because I'm weak and they should have been more understanding. How could they do this to me? I can't control myself. How do they expect me to act when they did this to me??" I tried to rationalize the hell out of things.. It's my normal tactic to try and find the positivity in things and get better, but I couldn't. I never asked for help, I always denied. Didn't want to affect people with my stupid problems or show them how miserable I was.. How could I not be that happy 7 they always knew?

Yeah... NOT FNCKING PRETTY. Ugh. Very very sad and pathetic...

*Level 9:* Oh my god. I never want to return to this place again. The darkest time of my life. In complete despair. Endangered my life with how I drove and rode my bike. I just didn't care. Nothing mattered anymore. I actually didn't abuse alcohol or drugs at this point... I was so low that I couldn't even find joy in escaping. I had no energy to try and lift myself out. I had completely given up. 

Luckily I was pulled out of it by caring people <3 If it wasn't for others showing even a little bit of support, I would never be where I am today. <3 <3 <3


Yeah so that's the unhealthy walk down the path of 7... dunno if that will help you because I can't really identify with my last type (9) when I'm unhealthy... it's too distant for me to tap into, at least I haven't really analyzed it yet. Maybe it's the not wanting to rock the boat even at my unhealthiest... no actually sometimes I did rock the boat because of my gluttonous 7 behavior which was REALLY out of control at that time... I felt bad about rocking the boat, at least


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

_*Level 4:* Self-sufficiency, financial independence, and having enough resources are important concerns: become enterprising, pragmatic, "rugged individualists," wheeler-dealers. Risk-taking, hardworking, denying own emotional needs.
_
Yeah, this is probably my default state, except for "wheeler-dealers" which I don't relate to.
*
Level 5:*_ Begin to dominate their environment, including others: want to feel that others are behind them, supporting their efforts. Swaggering, boastful, forceful, and expansive: the "boss" whose word is law. Proud, egocentric, want to impose their will and vision on everything, not seeing others as equals or treating them with respect.
_
Sigh, I don't know about boastful and forceful & "my word is law," although I was like that with regard to my apartment and band if I felt like someone would undermine me. I didn't need to impose my will on anyone but certainly there was no space for me to incorporate anyone else's will. As for treating others with respect, I usually do treat people with respect by default, but I have been accused when I'm unhealthy of being detached, not caring about others' feelings, being a heartbreaker, ruthless etc. Although I don't do any of this on purpose, I'm just too selfish to try to control anyone else consciously.
*
Level 6:*_ Become highly combative and intimidating to get their way: confrontational, belligerent, creating adversarial relationships. Everything a test of wills, and they will not back down. Use threats and reprisals to get obedience from others, to keep others off balance and insecure. However, unjust treatment makes others fear and resent them, possibly also band together against them._

- Threats and reprisals to get obedience - no, I never did this. This is not the way I operate.
- Creating adversarial relationships - yes, I even had an SO who, we openly hated each other and beat the crap out of each other in bed down to scratches, bleeding, violence etc. Our whole relationship was a game and a test of wills- and by the way, he even declared that I won. I treated him this way but I withdrew from most of my other relationships & friendships, so I don't think that may people suffered tremendously from my unhealth at that time. I also sought out new competitors after we broke up. But I don't think I looked for weak people I could take advantage of - contrarily, I looked for worthy competitors & adversaries who were inspiring & kept me on my toes.

​*Unhealthy Levels*
_*Level 7:* Defying any attempt to control them, become completely ruthless, dictatorial, "might makes right." The criminal and outlaw, renegade, and con-artist. Hard-hearted, immoral and potentially violent._

Outlaw- kind of, but I won't go into details. Ruthless, a little, when it came to my sexual lust. Dictatorial? Not so much. Violent? Not really, outside the bedroom. I'm not that violent and this made it hard for me to figure out my type.
*
Level 8:*_ Develop delusional ideas about their power, invincibility, and ability to prevail: megalomania, feeling omnipotent, invulnerable. Recklessly over-extending self._

Guilty.
*
Level 9:*_ If they get in danger, they may brutally destroy everything that has not conformed to their will rather than surrender to anyone else. Vengeful, barbaric, murderous. Sociopathic tendencies. Generally corresponds to the Antisocial Personality Disorder._

Nope. I did research sociopathy and wrote a lot of songs about it and kept asking people "Am I a sociopath?" because I felt so cold-hearted at the time, but I don't think I acted this way.



***************

That's my reaction to 8, though it might be different for other 8s. I'm not sure if these health levels should be taken too literally.​


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Haha, I wish I could get my friend into the Enneagram because I really don't know what to type her. Granted I only talk to her online. Maybe if we do some skype calls I'll have an easier time figuring it out. If I had to guess I would say 7 first because she seems pretty hyper, but I wouldn't call her narcissistic or selfish... Granted, we are good friends so I don't generally focus on her faults (besides the fact that she doesn't pay enough attention to me :mellow: :tongue.

For myself, I don't know how I vibe. Online I often worry that my writing is awkward since English isn't my first language, soo I try to sound casual and natural most of the time.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Nonsense said:


> Haha, I wish I could get my friend into the Enneagram because I really don't know what to type her. Granted I only talk to her online. Maybe if we do some skype calls I'll have an easier time figuring it out. If I had to guess I would say 7 first because she seems pretty hyper, but I wouldn't call her narcissistic or selfish... Granted, we are good friends so I don't generally focus on her faults (besides the fact that she doesn't pay enough attention to me :mellow: :tongue.
> 
> For myself, I don't know how I vibe. Online I often worry that my writing is awkward since English isn't my first language, soo I try to sound casual and natural most of the time.


What's your first language?

Not all 7s are hyper. Actually @cata.lyst.rawr seems to have more energy than some of the other 7s I know irl. My doctor is a 7 and he is a ball of energy like the energizer bunny, haha. But then my father is a core 7 (7w8, at that) and his mind is always 'on' and he has strong presence, but he's not exactly a hyper, chipper ball of energy, and he spends a ton of time by himself. My other friend is a 7 and so laid back and often serious & detached that for a long time I had him mistyped at 5.


----------



## Devrim (Jan 26, 2013)

People say I have a energetic yet calmed vibe 

So I guess it could be very ENFJ like?


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

@*Maybe*
I understand they aren't necessarily hyper, but it was the best word I could think of, honestly. She isn't as energetic as Catalyst either, as far as I can tell, but when I can't figure out someone's core, it's tempting to look at stereotypes to get a general idea.

And my first language is Norwegian. Pretty similar to English, but still.


----------



## misturalovesyou (Jul 21, 2012)

I don't know, I think vibe typing can be pretty consistent, especially in real physical life. On the internet I think it's useless because people can say what they want and edit it to their choosing. Of course, people in real life can do the same, but for me it's often easy to tell when someone's hiding something. I can pick up personality types within a 5 minute conversation (excuse my narcissism for the moment), but it might have to do with my INFJ-ness. 

My 'vibe' is more consistent with a 4 or a 5, definitely. Sometimes 7, if I'm hyper. Especially if you just meet me or the street or pick up a snippet of conversation. But I know I'm an 8, and I really dislike anybody telling me what type I am or what I'm not based merely on a vibe. I can do it to others, but I don't appreciate it done to me. But after time, most people can pick up my antagonistic nature, especially if we see each other every day. I like to start and end fights, stir people up, push others around to get what I want, etc. So I think that vibe can be a reliable way of typing if you're perceptive enough and consistently see and know of someone else. But I don't think most people are perceptive enough.


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

LeaT said:


> Did you ever consider core 1? It's also a superego type, competency driven and sp 1s can seem like 6s in that they also seek security and they both integrate towards positive outlook types.


I'm 100% positive I'm a 6w5, and definitely not a One. First of all, all of the Ones I know (including people I'm friends with) tend to really piss me off at least some of the time because of how restrained and uptight they can be. So I'm pretty sure I wouldn't feel that way about them if I was a One myself.

I do get upset about being "defective" but for me it's more like, being seen as defective in the eyes of others, rather than being defective internally. Like peoples' opinions about me shape what I actually believe is true about me. I think that's way more of a 6 thing than a 1 thing. Plus I'm really not a perfectionist at all. I just want things to be good enough so that others won't think I'm incompetent. I feel like Ones are a very internally driven type and I'm pretty lazy and only get driven to do things by external things (like fear of punishment). I do have a need to be "beyond criticism," but it's not like the central core of my existence and I could definitely see that coming from a 6 place of phobic/counterphobic dichotomy rather than a 1 place of needing to be perfect.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> I do get upset about being "defective" but for me it's more like, being seen as defective in the eyes of others, rather than being defective internally. Like peoples' opinions about me shape what I actually believe is true about me. I think that's way more of a 6 thing than a 1 thing.


6 ====> 3. (Meaning, that is your line to 3)
3s are in essence 'the marketing orientation' meaning that as long as others 'buy what they're selling' as far as their image, they feel validated. So being seen as 'defective' in the eyes of others is exactly what a 3 would not want, although the definition of 'defective' would vary from one person to the next, and the choice of the word 'defective' sounds more like a line from a super-ego type than anything. I do think based on the thread here and even your description of disintegration to 4, you are correctly typed (because I actually see it as more 3ish as a disintegration) .. but...

That being said,



> all of the Ones I know (including people I'm friends with) tend to really piss me off at least some of the time because of how restrained and uptight they can be. So I'm pretty sure I wouldn't feel that way about them if I was a One myself.


^ I can hate in others what I hate in myself =/

So I don't think you're wrong about your type but just pointing out that this *could* happen.


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Maybe said:


> I saw @_LeaT_ asked you if you're sure you're a 6 and not 1, so I won't ask the question again (we obviously know that 1 disintegrates to 4 ) - and this description DOES sound like the 1s that I know when they disintegrate. but!! You seem pretty knowledgable about enneagram so if you are *sure* you're a 6, there is still some chance this could be accurate as I will demonstrate below.
> 
> btw, have you read Naranjo Character & Neurosis?
> 
> ...


Thanks for explaining this! This makes so much sense  I never thought of my envy and fear of failure as being Type 3-ish because they were coming from a place of "being afraid I'm not going to be able to survive, or being really stressed out and envying other people because life seems so easy for them" rather than "wanting to be better than everyone else and get acknowledgement." But I guess that's just the difference in core motivations.

So how would you say Type 3 envy differs from Type 4 envy? I never really got the connection between Type 4 and envy anyway. What other types have envy besides 3, 4, and 6?

Actually my boyfriend is a counterphobic 6w5 (his tritype is 6w5>9w8> ???) and he has the fear/anger of someone having power over him thing that you described. But he also has lots of envy when it comes to people who he perceives as being more successful in their careers than him, and it motivates him to work really hard.


----------



## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Maybe said:


> I can hate in others what I hate in myself =/
> 
> So I don't think you're wrong about your type but just pointing out that this *could* happen.


Well this isn't a "hate because I can identify with it" thing. It's a "hate because I can't identify with it" thing.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

thismustbetheplace said:


> Thanks for explaining this! This makes so much sense  I never thought of my envy and fear of failure as being Type 3-ish because they were coming from a place of "being afraid I'm not going to be able to survive, or being really stressed out and envying other people because life seems so easy for them" rather than "wanting to be better than everyone else and get acknowledgement." But I guess that's just the difference in core motivations.


Yeah, makes sense.



> So how would you say Type 3 envy differs from Type 4 envy? I never really got the connection between Type 4 and envy anyway. What other types have envy besides 3, 4, and 6?


Well the types are right next to each other... but 3's core 'sin' is vanity & deceit (depending on the source). So I would say 3's envy is more vanity based - they want to win and be the best, and also project that image of a winner or the best worker or whatever image it may be. If someone else has achieved the image or the recognition or success that they desired to project themselves, the 3 might be jealous. The other person is 'ahead' or has it for real while she is still striving. And the 3 would think she'd be worthwhile if she had that achievement, or could think of herself that way "for real." The achievement could even be a boyfriend, looking a certain way, or being popular; it doesn't have to be a job or a CEO or a slick business dealer like the stereotypes describe. A spoiled 3 could be selling the image of a washed out hippy, to try to be cool, and seeing that someone else is a real hippy and is actually poor, she might feel jealous. =p (Just sayin) But the 3 will usually be motivated to compete, to be better, because she sees that someone else has done it and SHE can do it - because she's adaptable and can embody any image she wishes to project. (vanity, deceit.) The 3 is an attachment type because their self-image is based on what others see in them, but at the same time, it's also an id type which gives it a forceful go-getting edge... they won't just sit and mope that they aren't what they want to be... instead, they'll BECOME it and hope everyone else believes it; and if everyone else does, then they feel validated.

Meanwhile a 4's envy is more about something that the 4 feels she inherently lacks. It's not usually as much of an achievement or an external thing like a better job, but rather a quality... like the other person is beautiful and I am ugly, or the other person has the capacity to be happy and I do not; therefore that other person is worthy of being loved, whereas I am not. The 4 is very in touch with 'who she is' and not wanting to have to strive or pretend to be something else; just wanting to be loved for who they are, but feeling like nobody will accept them for who they are, and they're a frustration type because of the frustration that this is just who she is and there's nothing she can do about it, except 'faking' which would be abhorrent and inauthentic. So the 4 would be jealous because someone else might be more accepted or loved for their own qualities that the 4 feels she lacks.




> Actually my boyfriend is a counterphobic 6w5 (his tritype is 6w5>9w8> ???) and he has the fear/anger of someone having power over him thing that you described. But he also has lots of envy when it comes to people who he perceives as being more successful in their careers than him, and it motivates him to work really hard.


Yeah that makes sense, that's why sometimes CP-6's mistype at 8 and vice versa... neither wants to be controlled.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

@_thismustbetheplace_


> I do get upset about being "defective" but for me it's more like, being seen as defective in the eyes of others, rather than being defective internally. Like peoples' opinions about me shape what I actually believe is true about me. I think that's way more of a 6 thing than a 1 thing.


Being seen as defective in the eyes of others is 3ish because it's dependent on being seen in the eyes of others; that others might see you're 'defective' is your fear.

For a 4, it would be, 'well everyone can clearly see that I'm defective - but who will accept me the way I am?' The fear is that nobody will.


----------



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

I usually get vibe typed a bit. And since a lot of those vibes were fairly inconsistent, I did have trouble settling on a type in the past. 

I generally tend to be more skeptical of vibe typing not only due to what I mentioned above, but also because often times I've seen people who like to say that someone who claims to be certain types as "mistypes" just because they feel more at odds with them or they don't trip off "the type x radar" or something to that effect. Vibes can be quite helpful sometimes, but they are generally more reflective of personal biases than anything else. Enneagram is more about the motives and drives rather than how someone comes off to you. The way one person vibes to you might be completely different from how that person vibes to someone else.


----------



## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Maybe said:


> Enneagram types - core types, wing, tritypes - tend to be associated with a certain "vibe." Sometimes, this immediate vibe is congruent with the type or tritype. But then there are cases when someone "feels" like a certain type, but the motives don't pan out to that same type.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone?
> Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?
> Are you still uncertain of your type, wings, and fixes for reasons like this?


Skipping these questions because the answers to them from my point of view are obvious. What I want to address is the bottom:



> Do you think "vibe" typing has any merit? If so, how much or how little?


It depends entirely on _how_ you vibe. What priorities you give to elements of type decide how your 'vibing' will be informed, and how pertinent it is likely to be on what level. In order to really type someone meaningfully I find I have to be able to psychoanalyze them - to read through to the hidden intent behind what I see. I use the dynamics of how I see the person's mind working as a secondary attribute to help confirm my typing. I will use my method to type two people who look quite different on the surface as 7s, and you can reconstruct my typings by considering the basic system of type 7, and how it could manifest differently in psyches with different content and priorities on other levels. Much of the extra data goes into figuring out the rest of the type (trifix, variant, MBTI). Typing by traits, visual cues, comparison to type profiles, comparison to other 7s (especially superficial), and so on just doesn't make as much native sense to me because it doesn't teach me anything meaningful or really get at what a type, or individual, _is_.

When I vibe a type from a person, it's just using the same elements I prioritize in a shorthand fashion. This isn't a secondary process for me - it's coming straight from the dominant function I always worked with over my life, so I can't always explain it perfectly but it gives me a place I find reliable to come from in further analysis and thinking. As they say in MBTI-speak, I tend to "trust my hunches", which really aren't hunches at all.


----------



## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

The other problem with vibe typing is that each person experiences someone vibe differently or vibing is a subjective experience, if your'e an intuitive or a sensor, there might be differences in how you perceive someone's vibe considering vibe is an abstract concept. Just to throw that out there. And my vibe changes aswell, its fluid. These possibly lead to mistypes. There's nothing I know of that says there is a link between core motivations and vibe. What @_Pavane_ and @Flatliner said.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

For those of you who have been following this thread, I just wanted to let you know that my whole point for starting the thread was because I seem to give off 7 vibes, and specifically 847 vibes which seem fairly consistent in life or on forum - and as it turns out, I've thought about it a lot and I am a 847. (The confusion with 5 head-fix comes from having a line to 5, and also, having spent enough time disintegrated to be in touch with myself at my worst. It also doesn't help that 8s are generally self-preservational, so that can end up making me feel more SPish or 5ish without deeper analysis.) 

My initial "vibe" seems to strike people more core 7, still, but I have yet to get to know someone who still thinks I'm a core 7 once they know me. So, all that being said, there might be *something* to vibes, but as many people have mentioned, it also depends on the subjective experience and understanding of the person who is relaying the vibe, etc; and also, people's tritype and core and MBTI may manifest in different ways which are specific to each person. I agree with the above posts on principle, but I just wanted to relay my personal experience, considering that was part of why I started this thread.


----------



## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

Maybe said:


> Enneagram types - core types, wing, tritypes - tend to be associated with a certain "vibe." Sometimes, this immediate vibe is congruent with the type or tritype. But then there are cases when someone "feels" like a certain type, but the motives don't pan out to that same type.
> 
> Has this happened to anyone?


This depends a lot in who I am interacting with. 

a) Among strangers/people I don't have a strong connection with: I give a triple withdrawn vibe. Most people would probably type me as 5w4/4w5-9w1. The reason it's because I don't seem very engaging or interacting, and I rarely speak - I can enter and leave in a room without saying a word and without even being noticed. I came across as incredibly mysterious for most people, and the majority of people will never understand this. 

b) Family: my entire family types me as 4w3-6w5-8w9/1w9. 
c) Friends: unfortunately, the people who get to know my anxiety would type me as 6 :crying: Even knowing that my vibe is nothing like the stereotypical 6w7, at times I turn myself into certain people in order to search for support. On the other hand, the closest ones think I am a 2 fix lol

d) Online: I came across as 4w3/7w6. 




> Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?


A bit. The stereotypical 6w7 (and So/Sx in particular) seems so socially engaging, skilled, bubbly and apt - and I am nothing like this. Overall, I give a 5w? and 4w3 vibe - and that really messed things up when I was trying to find my E-type. 




> Are you still uncertain of your type, wings, and fixes for reasons like this?


Yes. However, sometimes I doubt if I am a 4w3 core - because of the strong influence that 4 has within myself. 




> Do you think "vibe" typing has any merit? If so, how much or how little?


It has some. But honestly I wouldn't rely only on it. For several reasons:

1. Imagine someone has an anxiety disturb - that person will look like a stereotypical 6, when it doesn't have to be one necessarily. 

2. The vibe someone gives usually depends a lot on who that person is interacting with. On the other hand different people will perceive the same person differently. 

3. Complex types - like 6 and 9 - may give the vibe of other E-types...


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

I "vibe" as a 5 or 6w5 due to my entire lack of social skills. A few PerC members have guessed 5 before anything else.

My friends are odd. Everyone seems to have a different view of me. The more emotional would probably put me at 5, the more "logical" maybe at 7, and the urban (I'm a bit anti-urban-behavior) at 1. Most of my family would probably put me at 5, but my mom might see the 6w7. I've never introduced the Enneagram to anyone, so this is all a guess.

While I don't think "vibe typing" is generally the way to go, I do understand not being able to vocalize why one thinks something. "Vibe typing" is often used in the more wannabe-hardcore crowd, when they say "Watch this youtube vid of this celebrity to get a feeling for the type." That, to me, is absolutely useless: it doesn't give me any information on anything. However, I can moderately understand when a fellow forum-member says, "I don't know, you seem 1ish," though I won't take it as seriously as a lengthy explanation. (I mean, I can be vague myself.)

I do think that being around people of certain types gives one a "feeling" for that type, though that's more out of repeated physical exposure than educated guessing, and it can still backfire relatively often.


----------



## leafling (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm not sure how I "vibe" to others really. I would love to know. :x

And it might be a good starting point, but it shouldn't be relied upon to be accurate.


----------



## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Hi @_Maybe_

I want to weigh in here because it’s somewhat relevant to my experience.

*1. Has this happened to anyone? 
*Yeah, this has happened to me, mostly since I took a leave of absence. A number of people came forward to tell me what they really thought of me when I came out as a 4w5. Apparently, I “vibe” as a 6w7 with a 9w8-fix, which I guess is why everyone on PerC keeps typing me this way. 


* *




Please try to imagine how this sounds to an 8-fixed 4w5. If I may romanticize myself and spew stereotypes, I’m a quintessential rugged, angry outsider with a grudge against the world. No joke. Making friends doesn’t come naturally to me; I’m isolated; I legitimately don’t need people and they don’t need me. I do things on my own and I’ve never been another way. Doubt and indecision are NOT my problem areas in life, nor do I have a propensity to avoid problems.

Thus, getting vibe-typed as 6w7/9w8 basically de-validates my entire life. The worst part about this is, I actually tried to make myself believe it. Like a true 4, I assumed I was stupid and silly and I abused myself for being too self unaware to see it. Part of me revolted against this; the other part of me said, Just fucking admit it, loser. Then I spun falsehoods trying to make myself believe it.

Thank God I saw the light.



*2. Has this lead to confusion in figuring out your type?
*Yeah, it has. Mostly on PerC. When I came here I understood that there were many who knew more about the enneagram than me. I had (read: _thought_ I had) certain inconsistencies with type 4; I identified with 4, 5, and 8 the most, so I assumed that made me a 6 (truly warped logic, I know). I deferred to public judgement. And it led to me habitually castigating and brainwashing myself. And God, it’s so embarrassing for me to admit that…but it’s true.


* *




That said, off PerC, I doubt anyone would be able to “vibe-type” me. I’ve been called everything from charming to criminally insane; friendly to unfriendly; simple to inscrutable; I run the gamut from being the isolated wall-flower to being the commanding bitch. I’m stoic; I’m a drama queen; I’m a reliable employee; I’m socially awkward; I’m negative; I’m uplifting; I’m an irresponsible marauder. Whatever. Everyone I’ve ever spoken to has a different impression of me. 

I now understand why this is.



*3. Are you still uncertain of your type, wings, and fixes for reasons like this?
*Once I cut away all the type 6 bullshit, it all became remarkably clear to me.


* *




But yes, working under the assumption I was a 6 basically forced me to have a 1-fix to explain all my moralizing, frustration, and perfectionism. It also forced me to allow a substantial 7-wing to explain why my vibe wasn’t “detached” enough (on PerC, lol, not IRL). Distorted my thinking process and personal growth. I’m sorry I let that happen.



*4. Do you think "vibe" typing has any merit? If so, how much or how little?
*Yes and No. I do have the propensity to vibe-type others IRL (meaning I subconsciously draw deductions about how they seem to me based on their behavior and stated thoughts--not that I think, "That insanely energetic person is a 7!"). I find that my feelings often pan out. I don’t spend that much time considering it and tend to trust my initial assessments. I am sometimes wrong, but I trust my intuitions enough to report on others in my life for scientific PerC purposes.

That said, mine is officially the only assessment I trust anymore. If someone tries to tell me I “vibe like a head type”, I just smile. I know the depths I’ve descended to, and they don’t resemble 6w7. Sorry.

That’s what leads me to “No”--I’m a) not going to rely on someone else’s impressions and b) you can’t really vibe-type people on the internet. I’ve learned through painful experience that pixels on a screen are a remarkably BAD way to feel someone out. People have taken me wrong; I’ve taken others wrong. So I don’t claim to vibe type people online--I might form an opinion about their type, but ultimately what that person says is the final word. There’s a million and one reasons why someone might appear differently online or mis-report, and I’m far too ingrown to go around re-typing everyone based on their possibly poorly-conveyed digital thoughts. End of story.

So thoser my thoughts, Maybe. Hope it helps you.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

@_holyrockthrower_

That is a great post. Thank you for weighing in. I share many of your sentiments and experiences with the forum. I also took public opinion to heart to a degree - not leading me towards a certain type as much as, leading me away from 8. When I finally did begin to see myself and type at 8, I tried to discuss my thoughts about this possible typing, but feedback like "you're a Cp-6" or "you're a 7" or "you seem like a 3" was not helping me to come to terms with myself. I'm not blaming anyone because I know that *most* people who had comments about my type were genuinely trying to help me find my type. But ultimately, the only way I could face myself via my enneagram typing was to leave the forum for a while, read the sources, and sort it out myself. 

Also - congratulations on finding your type. =) I wish I had read Naranjo & Maitri before commenting on your typing thread, so that at least one opinion might have been accurate. I know you're not listening to opinions about your core anymore, but for whatever its worth, I think that knowing what I know now, I probably would have typed you at 4, too.


----------



## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Maybe said:


> @_holyrockthrower_
> 
> That is a great post. Thank you for weighing in. I share many of your sentiments and experiences with the forum. I also took public opinion to heart to a degree - not leading me towards a certain type as much as, leading me away from 8. When I finally did begin to see myself and type at 8, I tried to discuss my thoughts about this possible typing, but feedback like "you're a Cp-6" or "you're a 7" or "you seem like a 3" was not helping me to come to terms with myself. I'm not blaming anyone because I know that *most* people who had comments about my type were genuinely trying to help me find my type. But ultimately, the only way I could face myself via my enneagram typing was to leave the forum for a while, read the sources, and sort it out myself.
> 
> Also - congratulations on finding your type. =) I wish I had read Naranjo & Maitri before commenting on your typing thread, so that at least one opinion might have been accurate. I know you're not listening to opinions about your core anymore, but for whatever its worth, I think that knowing what I know now, I probably would have typed you at 4, too.


Aw shucks. Thanks. Hey, I'll listen to someone's ideas, but if they're just gonna tell me I'm a deluded 6, I'd rather not hear it. Thanks for saying that. What I'm taken aback by in my earlier thread is how everyone seemed to label me as 6w7 despite the fact that I very clearly showed extreme frustration issues, longing, and a swing between gratefulness and ungratefulness. it's as though being feisty and disliking oneself at the same time is indicative of 6 alone. There was a lot there that could have belonged to many types.

The only other person who picked up on this was an 8 as well who told me he thought I was a core 8 with a 4w5 fix. So, the important thing is to be educated and take everything with a grain of salt.


----------

