# Lets see what happens if I do one of these. }:-D



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm pretty confident in my type, but I want to do this to explore myself a bit more. 



> 0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.


No work. No medication. It's long since I've been this stable though.
Working on several projects like, taking drivers licence, getting in shape, dating, 
looking for more interesting job than the last.
Basically getting my life on some sort of track.
Almost 30, male and single.




> 1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.












Here is one nasty bugger! :-o
Wouldn't want that guy anywhere near me...
Okay so I get a white flower with a monster. Who cares about flowers anyway.
They are nice when you have them dotting the landscape I guess.
A closeup doesn't do it for me though. Not my kind of flower either.
And the "thing" how huge is that guy anyway?
I would guess that the diameter of the flower is maybe 3 cm, 
I think I've seen similar flowers in ditches. I think you could roughly fit 3 of those onto a flower maybe.
So maybe a centimeter big. Gee to be stung by that guy would probably hurt.
Why should I get something like this as my picture? I wanted a landscape I could admire or something. 



> 2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?


Okay I imagine going to Bergen. 
How did that happen? Shit...
Great we are in the mountains and have a breakdown.
How can I use this situation as a gift? Hmmm....
Well I can't imagine me being dragged to Bergen for some concert, unless there is a *hot girl involved
in the same car that I like.* And it should be pretty much ON if I decided to go.
This looks like a golden opportunity to get to know each other so much better. ;-)



> 3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?


Drive back later from Bergen? Yeah whatever...
I would assume he was full of crap, I would love to go if SHE was going too.
Otherwise I would have to know who else was coming to the afterparty.
No way I'm going unless there are single girls there, or some other perk.
A macho, who can down the most booze party, is not for me.
I would probably find some place to stay for the night, if the party seemed not worth it.



> 4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?


Inward: Ignorant fool!

Outward: It depends really on my mood. In most cases 
I couldn't give a damn what he thinks about the world.
If it was a good buddy with a very unhelpful belief I would tell him that I disagreed.
Try to help him see the world in a better light.
If I was in the mood I might ridicule the person for being dumb.
Meanspirited or playful depending who was being dumb.
Otherwise who need the drama of I'm right you are wrong anyway?



> 5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?


Adapt to what I saw happening I guess. If something I didn't believe possible happens.
Well then I'm obviously in the wrong about that and need to change to reflect what has happened.
I might go into denial for a while if it was a deeply held belief.
Like if stones started to speak to me or something equally impossible.



> 6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?


Be truthful, you only hurt yourself if you lie.

I try to be of value to everyone I meet. In some form.
It makes me feel better about myself.

I do what I want, when I want!

Peace of mind.

I can't think of any big save the world values though. XD



> 7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?


a) Most distingushes me? 
I'm silent and serious, and suddenly for no reason apparant to others I'm happy and glad.
Deepthinking one second, silly and stupid the next.

b) What to change?
Probably the fact that I hesitate too much. Procratinate or whatever you want to call it.



> 8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?


I take those signals very serious if they come at me from nowhere, 
if I know they are from social conditioning they will be ridiculed and burned on the altar
of expanding the comfort zone.
Othervise if they are a warning, I will heed them carefully and try to use my time advantage to
get on top of whatever situation triggered it before the situation gets on top of me.

If I ignore it I will likely pay a heavy price just as I always do when I don't listen to that part of myself.



> 9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?


Taking walks, thinking and talking about what is important to me.
Doing martial arts, chatting with people who are on the same wave-lenght.



> 10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?


I repress my opinion cause I don't like all the anger I get in my face when I share it with most people.
However I never agree to stuff I don't want to do. If I get pushed into giving an answer I won't sugar coat it
if it messes with my freedom.

I don't know if I repress anything internally, how would I know if I did? XD


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Written like a true Se user. You seem like a very funny and free-spirited ISFP. XD


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

I read the description of the picture. It was so full of Se and Fi that I found it cute, for some reason. I didn't really read the rest properly, but rest assured you're an ISFP


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Written like a true Se user. You seem like a very funny and free-spirited ISFP. XD





Amaterasu said:


> I read the description of the picture. It was so full of Se and Fi that I found it cute, for some reason. I didn't really read the rest properly, but rest assured you're an ISFP


Yeah I know... I'm ISFP, but I was bored of typing others. :-/
It was fun to do, but very anticlimatic to have people going.
Yes you are ISFP!!!!
I was kinda hoping someone would claim I was ISTP/ESFP or something.
Then we could have a little debate and stuff. XD


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

hornet said:


> Yeah I know... I'm ISFP, but I was bored of typing others. :-/
> It was fun to do, but very anticlimatic to have people going.
> Yes you are ISFP!!!!
> I was kinda hoping someone would claim I was ISTP/ESFP or something.
> Then we could have a little debate and stuff. XD


Okay, you're ESFP. (It's actually possible if your Fi didn't come off as higher than your Se according to your questionnaire. The picture description is Se overload though xD) Debate with me.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

hornet said:


> Yeah I know... I'm ISFP, but I was bored of typing others. :-/
> It was fun to do, but very anticlimatic to have people going.
> Yes you are ISFP!!!!
> I was kinda hoping someone would claim I was ISTP/ESFP or something.
> Then we could have a little debate and stuff. XD


I did this too! And everyone was like "textbook INTJ."
I wanted to see if someone would say otherwise. But nooooooo.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> I did this too! And everyone was like "textbook INTJ."
> I wanted to see if someone would say otherwise. But nooooooo.


Can you link me to the thread, please?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Amaterasu said:


> Okay, you're ESFP. (It's actually possible if your Fi didn't come off as higher than your Se according to your questionnaire. The picture description is Se overload though xD) Debate with me.


What no way! ;-p
I don't only live for pleasure, jumping in anybodys pants.
I'm not some piece of meat on display you know!

I have _*feelings*_!!! ^_^ 
Fi and stuff first...
When you feel it then you can enjoy it.
Not enjoy it and feel it afterwards, cause then it is too late...


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Amaterasu said:


> Can you link me to the thread, please?


http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/104933-im-curious.html

There you go.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

hornet said:


> What no way! ;-p
> I don't only live for pleasure, jumping in anybodys pants.
> I'm not some piece of meat on display you know!
> 
> ...


Hey, now. ESFPs aren't the people who like to scream YOLO (god how I hate that, YOLO, it's so stupid) at every corner. I know one who reacts emotionally first and then uses her Se.

How about enjoying and feeling together? (Idk how that works anyway)


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Amaterasu said:


> Hey, now. ESFPs aren't the people who like to scream YOLO (god how I hate that, YOLO, it's so stupid) at every corner. I know one who reacts emotionally first and then uses her Se.
> 
> How about enjoying and feeling together? (Idk how that works anyway)


I know I'm just messing with the stereotypes.
Seen these?


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

hornet said:


> I know I'm just messing with the stereotypes.
> Seen these?


Yeah 

The second half of the ESFP video is not very smart. The first half was good though.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

hornet said:


> I'm pretty confident in my type, but I want to do this to explore myself a bit more.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok, I am not sure why you even think you're an Fi dom based on this, because I see SeTi all over. I'll bold the Ti parts, and underline the Se parts, and bold AND underline the SeTi parts. Ni I italicize. 




> _Okay I imagine going to Bergen. _
> How did that happen? Shit...
> Great we are in the mountains and have a breakdown.
> _*How can I use this situation as a gift? Hmmm....*_
> ...


Same thing as above. I see more Ni here. It's not so long so it's hard to say exactly what functions you use here.



> *Drive back later from Bergen? Yeah whatever...*
> I would assume he was full of crap, I would love to go if SHE was going too.
> Otherwise I would have to know who else was coming to the afterparty.
> No way I'm going unless there are single girls there, or some other perk.
> ...


And same. Oh, dash of Fe here  You're sold on your imaginary girl, huh? Sounds so Fe to me. You do things based on what someone else wants, *not* what you want. That's as opposite to Fi as you can get. Se is obvious. Sensation seeking here. More single girls! 



> *Inward: Ignorant fool!*
> *
> Outward: It depends really on my mood. In most cases
> I couldn't give a damn what he thinks about the world.*
> ...


Such a give away. Ignorant fool?  Only thinkers react that way to what they perceive to be stupidity. Very unhelpful disbelief? Sounds like you're doing him a service XD Seems Fe to me, not Te. You want to help, connect, change. And then Ti with ridicule. Yep. I can do that when in the mood and I feel I have no patience for babysitting. SeTi logic at the end. No interest in theory or seeing different perspectives. The world just is.


> Adapt to what I saw happening I guess. If something I didn't believe possible happens.
> Well then I'm obviously in the wrong about that and need to change to reflect what has happened.
> I might go into denial for a while if it was a deeply held belief.
> Like if stones started to speak to me or something equally impossible.


I see Ni through SeTi here. Weak Ni nevertheless. I am thinking you're an Se dom at this point. Ni is very weak.


> Be truthful, you only hurt yourself if you lie.
> 
> I try to be of value to everyone I meet. In some form.
> It makes me feel better about myself.
> ...


Wouldn't that speak against Fi dom?  I think while Fi doms might not always be fully aware of their values since they are in constant reconfiguration, the values they know they have they are fiercly protective of. I know it's like that with my Fi values at least. And I have yet to see a single ounce of Fi from you desiring uniqueness, originality, interest in the arts and/or crafts or something else that would indicate Fi. Instead I see a very here and now action-oriented person with a lot of Se energy. Do what you want whenever you want? Seems to imply Se dom, not Ti or Fi dom. Compare to the ENTPs and their Ne energy. They must have a constant outlet for it.


> a) Most distingushes me?
> I'm silent and serious, and suddenly for no reason apparant to others I'm happy and glad.
> Deepthinking one second, silly and stupid the next.
> 
> ...


Doesn't point towards anything in particular. You seem well-balanced but I still think Ni is really your true Achilles heel. It seems very weak and it shines through in your writing as well. It doesn't flow well at all. You also seem to completely lack the stronger need for theory, theorization and abstract thinking you see in ISTPs, especially the well-developed ones.


> I take those signals very serious if they come at me from nowhere,
> if I know they are from social conditioning they will be ridiculed and burned on the altar
> of expanding the comfort zone.
> Othervise if they are a warning, I will heed them carefully and try to use my time advantage to
> ...


Seems to be NiFe you're talking about. Socialization? You seem to think quite carefully about them and not entirely trust your gut feelings. You consider them but you don't really find them to be that important. They must be analyzed because they appear to be dangerous because you don't know what caused them or why.


> Taking walks, thinking and talking about what is important to me.
> Doing martial arts, chatting with people who are on the same wave-lenght.
> 
> 
> ...


Still showing absolutely zero interest in anything artistic that is so typical for Fi users because Fi is the most easily expressed in the arts. Art is abstract so it's an ideal outlet to express Fi through it. And you do like to talk to people, seems to point towards tertiary Fe. And you gain energy being in the here and now, present. To experience things. Se dom. 

Seems like tertiary Fe if you say that you actually repress your feelings because you can be rather blunt. You're aware of social norms and values for most of the part but you don't like to cause conflict. Totally Fe. And you're not very in touch with yourself. You don't know what's actually going on inside of your head. You're not predominantly a thinker or a feeler. So yes, totally Se dom. And I say ESTP at this point. 

Damn, that makes so much sense that ISFP. I always thought there was this weird dissonance between your avatar, username and the way you actually come across with ISFP. You just lacked the ISFP sensitivity for one. hornet is totally something I can imagine an ESTP pick up though. It sounds kinda artistic but it has a certain harshness to it like it often does when ESTPs try to come off as feelers.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

That is a very interesting way of putting it.
Se-dom? That is stretching it I think... :-/
I need my alone time!!! I'm positive I'm an introvert regardless of what cognitive function order
is possible. Being out and about don't charge me. Se don't charge me it is using the dominant judging function
while I walk around that charge me. Se drains me if I do it too long. I've done enough experiments on myself
to be very sure of the aux Se Ni Tert axis. Not to mention the paranoia I get if Ni don't get the facts straight and I go
dom tert loop.

Now as for the dominant function. It seems to me that I wrestle far more with ethical dilemmas than logical problems.
The answers in this thread might be severely messed up from me watching advice from all types of people and having
the habit of affirming traits I would wish I had. XD

My don't care attitude is very Fi based I believe cause even though I'm not as "sensitive" as the others ISFPs
believe that is because ISFPs are the most suppressed type out there. All I'm doing is liberating my Fi and dearing
to speak up about what I want because the knowledge of type shields me from the reactions I used to fear from
Te, Fe and Ti users. I feel that your comments are in part stereotypical images of what the types are like.
And that you don't take into consideration that I'm using this stuff with other self-help motivational stuff
to step outside of boundaries and do stuff that seems way out of the bounds of normalcy.
I think one of the people I tried to emulate might be ESTP. XD
So I guess I should take a new questionaire and actually be honest in every aspect as he prescribed cause
I might have overdone it in this test.

I can't relate to having Fe as an inferior and certainly not as a tert. I relate much more to Te and kinda know
Te-doms are right and I should really do the planned approach.
I've had way too many unity moments I hated. I don't want unity.
I want to be me! To make my choices on my premises.
I've exited a super conservative religion, I've done all sorts of stuff to get away from any hint of unity.
I get that I've not communicated it well enough.
I get that you believe my Fi is Ti, as I'm writing this I'm sitting on the floor.
I've had several instances today where I've denied joining in on all sorts of unity moments.
Cause I wanted to do my thing and I knew that all they wanted to do was pull me into some Fe/Si binge
and torture me with inane boring, unstimulated conversation about food, who has disease and other similar topics.

Right now I'm learning to read tarot cards. Hardly an ESTP activity. I've never been really though in social situations.
Never managed to interpret any Fe signals on any level, never been with the in group.
I've been socially awkward and misunderstood my whole life. Right now I'm reorienting myself with JCF as a tool
to maneuver the social fabrics of other people around me. I get Fe now trough a categorical Te and abstract Ni approach.
My categories are a bit shallow due to Te being inferior, but I can't relate to Ti or Fe.

So I think I'll stick with ISFP as it is the only thing that makes sense.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

If @hornet could be anything other than ISFP, it would have to be ISTP. The tertiary Ni is undeniable.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

FacelessBeauty said:


> If @_hornet_ could be anything other than ISFP, it would have to be ISTP. The tertiary Ni is undeniable.


I'm open to being ISTP, if I've misunderstood the whole Fi/Ti divide.
In don't think I have though.
Too me it seems that the barrier of text and the limited view I can give you into my life
can make it appear that I'm an Ti user.

But oh well I'll tell some tales from my life and we will see.

When I was in kindergarden I refused to eat fish. When they tried to force feed me I choked on purpose to not have to.
I would crawl under my moms car and laugh at her when she couldn't get at me.
I did whatever I damn well pleased and I had not a care in the world for any social situation.
All I wanted was candy, fun and excitement, I could play very well in my own and would go into my own
play trance almost making the people in my kindergarden think I had hearing problems.
I liked being in Se mode, but whenever I was confronted I would back out of Se mode and into Fi mode and try to leave.
A very persistent pattern in my life. I'm actually very creative, but since my life have been so messed up I've
havn't really had the opportunity fo develop any art. I remember I was very enarmoured with martial art being an
ART. I have my own fighting system that I've developed that have borrowed from this and that.
I'm quite proud of that accomplishment.

I'm a taoist and like to read pretty deep stuff like books on cabbalah and other related subjects.
I resonated with the INTJs Ni when I was with them believing I was their type.
However as I founld out I was in a loop an SUCCESSFULLY extracted myself from the loop by using Se and Te
derived principles that was solely from the theory of how the loops worked and having my paranoia evaporate.
A very serious situation that almost made me almost kill a person, and alienated half of the people I knew.

Whenever someone tells me to do something I feel resistance and I have to ask myself if it is worth it.
I generally take some passive aggressive revenge later, if I can't extract myself in the moment.
Right now I'm on a lets find out how to rethink my life trough the JCF perspective.
What don't I have to put up with anymore with the knowledge of how the functions apply.
It is really interesting and giving to be able to stop situations that have bugged me since childhood
with this understanding. Yes I have a very hands-on approach with this. That is why I can't believe
that I'm typed wrong. Cause in Se mode (reality) things are working out with the assumption of me having
these functions. If I didn't reality would surely hit me over the head to teach me a lesson.
But that hasn't manifested.

Hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
And it kinda makes it obvious that typing people on a forum is very hard and that we can never know that
the info is accurate enough or that we interpret it out of context.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

hornet said:


> That is a very interesting way of putting it.
> Se-dom? That is stretching it I think... :-/
> I need my alone time!!! I'm positive I'm an introvert regardless of what cognitive function order
> is possible. Being out and about don't charge me. Se don't charge me it is using the dominant judging function
> ...


I want to emphasize that I merely suggested that based on this one test and I don't think the test provides with enough data XD Of course you know yourself better. I am never suggesting otherwise. I'd rather have you do a new test because I know this one is old. 



FacelessBeauty said:


> If @_hornet_ could be anything other than ISFP, it would have to be ISTP. The tertiary Ni is undeniable.


What makes you say tert?  I still think the Ni could be stronger though, even for tertiary. It seems weak regardless.



hornet said:


> I'm open to being ISTP, if I've misunderstood the whole Fi/Ti divide.
> In don't think I have though.
> Too me it seems that the barrier of text and the limited view I can give you into my life
> can make it appear that I'm an Ti user.
> ...


Yes, because what you wrote here doesn't necessarily say anything when it comes to T/F  What I saw in your OP was T though, undeniably so. There was at least to me not a single piece of Fi to be seen. Whether this is because you hide Fi or something else I don't know, but the Fi was not there at all.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

@LeaT
Yeah I get that you only suggested.
This is just what my reaction to the suggestion is. 

You could watch this one, it kinda long, but at least you get to see me live. XD






And there is another one here each of the pieces is shorter so maybe more managable.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

@LeaT the reason I agree with tert is because @hornet seems to be more of an introverted perceiving dominant to begin with. When making posts it is heavily reflected in the way that he strongly feels or thinks about something. Very subjective if you ask me. Also hornet goes a little too into what could be to be dominant Se. Ni is a lot more subtle in the Se dominant than the Se aux because the Se is so heavily focused on what is there.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FacelessBeauty said:


> @_LeaT_ the reason I agree with tert is because @_hornet_ seems to be more of an introverted perceiving dominant to begin with. When making posts it is heavily reflected in the way that he strongly feels or thinks about something. Very subjective if you ask me. Also hornet goes a little too into what could be to be dominant Se. Ni is a lot more subtle in the Se dominant than the Se aux because the Se is so heavily focused on what is there.


True. Good points.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

hornet said:


> I'm like WOW!!!
> I understand something here!


That thread made a lot of things click for me too. 


> Then I go to the thread and I'm like.... *You got that from that one?*
> Makes no sense...
> Maybe it is in the presentation I dunno.


No a friend found that in her reading somewhere, or maybe she worked it out herself.



> Having a working model of what the transitions and their three natured growth and diminishment is nice.
> 
> Still I don't know, but I'm having a hard time linking these concepts to Se-mode so to speak.
> Like what kind of disintegration/integration are we talking about, is it different for each type?
> ...


To me enneagram just made sense because I've always been aware of people having motivations. I knew that people have underlying core fears (beyond the inferiority complexes) and that they act in certain ways to work around those fears. Like a 3 wanting a strong image, or a 7 constantly jumping from idea to idea, or an 8 trying to be in a position of power to achieve the best for him/herself and others. It's not solid in terms of structured reasoning, but it's solid in terms of different kinds of fears/motivations people have. 

It does get really complicated though... it's like there are three different types of transformations constantly happening. You can be integrating or disintegrating, moving up or down the 9 levels of health, or calling into play your different wings and your tritypes to round out a picture. Usually integration is used to get out of 9ish ruts, whereas disintegration just deepens them. The 9 levels of health can be drawn like a sunburst or a cone... to be at the top level is very similar for all the types, but as you go down every type has a different "failure mode" so to speak. You can move up and down as you face difficulties, learn, and grow. The different wings and subtypes I tend to see coming out more spontaneously... I can't consciously tell my w1 to kick in, or that I should use my 2w1 side here, but I know that some of my thoughts are caused by those fears/motivations more than my dominant 9 side. 




> I think your Te saves you from that, however I cold see how the organic touch are being lost.
> If the Te data lacks any connection to reality you probably could fall into that trap.
> I often lose track of Te data and every time I feel like everyone on this forum is out to get me
> cause I had some run in with a couple of users I need to step back and examine the number of members and realize
> how improbable it is that all 40000 have decided to conspire to get me.... XD


The organic touch? I wish I had that, every time I've tried to grow plants they've all died.  
To be serious, that's a fascinating way of putting things, and now it feels like I have a hole in me because I'm not in touch with that side of things at all.

Well, here's one member who won't be conspiring against you... I rather like talking to you.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

hornet said:


> @_listentothemountains_
> To save everyone some time:
> From this thread...
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/110585-im-woman-my-word-5.html
> ...


Thanks Hornet. 
@LeaT Your way of understanding the organization of JCF is certainly a valid interpretation, but it's not one that I've looked into very much yet. Basically what you've done is placed the dominant and inferior functions at the complete opposite end of the scale and filled in the middle with what people normally consider the "shadow functions." The middle ones would still be less differentiated, but they wouldn't carry as much negative feeling when used as is implied from Beebe's shadow function model. And, since you are still looking at the same dom, aux, tert and inf function characteristics it should make typing people come out with the same results. 


Ok so on FacelessBeauty's thread there was another discussion about Ti vs Fi. I'd like to add some thoughts to that. 

What is Ti really? You've already covered it LeaT... it's the breakdown of ideas or things into basic components, categorization, and complex analysis of the "true - false" connections between statements. It's always connected with Fe in the sense that Ti allows for personal subjective logic and Fe is impersonal values that are agreed upon as true. I think some of what you think of as Fi is really Fe... you said "Instead I view norms, values and traditions as social facts of life. I have a very impersonal and abstract attitude towards them." And then you have opinions on top of that... which is fascinating. I'll come back to this after I describe Fi. 

Fi is a reasoning process on the basis of individually held values which are normally based on an idea of the universality or the similarity of the experience of being a human. To put it simply, it's the golden rule: "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself." It's the process of understanding what is right for everyone on the basis of accepting each person as an individual and to give them the same rights and freedoms as you would want for yourself. Fi derives an understanding of what the right values are to hold from the individual's experiences and feelings. Fi doms are constantly reevaluating a situation to provide that respect for the other person at the same time as they are evaluating their own inner values and what they want for themselves and their own opinions on a matter. Fi as a reasoning process also breaks things down into smaller pieces which are then evaluated as morally correct or not and also builds a framework of values to follow or use in daily life. Fi works in tandem with Te, basically thinking about "what feels right for me or the individuals, and what is logical/makes the most sense for everyone." 

So I'm pretty sure Fi isn't opinions. It is personal values, but opinions can come from any of the cognitive functions.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

listentothemountains said:


> To me enneagram just made sense because I've always been aware of people having motivations. I knew that people have underlying core fears (beyond the inferiority complexes) and that they act in certain ways to work around those fears. Like a 3 wanting a strong image, or a 7 constantly jumping from idea to idea, or an 8 trying to be in a position of power to achieve the best for him/herself and others. It's not solid in terms of structured reasoning, but it's solid in terms of different kinds of fears/motivations people have.


Okay. 
Basic area of coverage motivation.
Motivation driven by 3 core fears. Fear, shame and anger, and they can manifest nine 9 ways.

Id/Aggressive is 3,7,8
Superego/Dependent is 1,2,6
Ego/Withdrawn is 4,5,9

I didn't make that connection so I didn't understand the essence at what @_timeless_ was getting at in this thread.
http://personalitycafe.com/articles/47315-freudian-theory-enneagram.html

I understood that it linked the types up to psychology, but didn't grasp the essential nature of the thing.
It seemed to be placed at random in relation to all the other principles in the enneagram.

So we have a ego needs id to grow, id needs superego to grow, superego needs ego to grow.
Ego gets messed up by superego, id gets messed up by ego, superego gets messed up by id.

So as a 9 I should be careful of the influence of 1, 2 and *6* and be inspired by the influence of 8, 7 and *3*.



> It does get really complicated though...


yeah it was probably not smart of me to ask both basic and advanced questions at once.



> The organic touch? I wish I had that, every time I've tried to grow plants they've all died.
> To be serious, that's a fascinating way of putting things, and now it feels like I have a hole in me because I'm not in touch with that side of things at all.


Well you can grow your Se, from my perspective what I've noticed is that whenever i grow my tertriary Ni the
more the imbalances created by getting more and better "patterndetection" demands that I improve my Te to keep
things realistic.
So for you I would guess that the same principle would hold, the more you dive into working on your Fi the more
life will demand that your Se keeps up to keep things realistic. The more Fi the more Se is needed and will feel
more natural to your situation *instead of trying to force Se without it being needed as a balancing force.*



> Well, here's one member who won't be conspiring against you... I rather like talking to you.


Heh maybe we should do a vid-chat in the type interatction thread just to top it of. 



listentothemountains said:


> Thanks Hornet.
> @_LeaT_ Your way of understanding the organization of JCF is certainly a valid interpretation, but it's not one that I've looked into very much yet. Basically what you've done is placed the dominant and inferior functions at the complete opposite end of the scale and filled in the middle with what people normally consider the "shadow functions." The middle ones would still be less differentiated, but they wouldn't carry as much negative feeling when used as is implied from Beebe's shadow function model. And, since you are still looking at the same dom, aux, tert and inf function characteristics it should make typing people come out with the same results.
> 
> 
> ...


Ah! I was right, but couldn't really spell it out in an organized way!
Now I understand the divide so much better. I wasn't aware that Ti has a tendency to mistake opinion for personal values.
My ISTP dad is very opinionated, but he is incapable of having any values off his own.
He has to share them with others, he can't buy something without showing it off and getting feedback from others that
he made a good valuable choice. So when I go "well it seems to do what it is intended to do" he goes nuts.
He wants a stamp of approval or a dismissal, not a functional analysis, but I don't care about the new 3d tv as
I dont watch tv anyway, why should i be trilled over something that has no use for me?
Like wow!!! *your 1 month of salary* was well spent cause now the picture has more depth *if we put on the glasses*. XD


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

hornet said:


> Well you can grow your Se, from my perspective what I've noticed is that whenever i grow my tertriary Ni the
> more the imbalances created by getting more and better "patterndetection" demands that I improve my Te to keep
> things realistic.
> So for you I would guess that the same principle would hold, the more you dive into working on your Fi the more
> ...


Thank you so much for this! I'm feeling way out of touch with reality and I have a ton of Fi at the moment. Ni-Te works as a pair of me too to keep things real.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

listentothemountains said:


> Thank you so much for this! I'm feeling way out of touch with reality and I have a ton of Fi at the moment. Ni-Te works as a pair of me too to keep things real.


To keep things real in Se mode you have to go and experience what is the issue in question directly, hands-on.
You have a conflict over some property?
Go and inspect the property in person. Don't just look at the numbers on the sheet.
Walk around on the property to see infield what is the issue and *how things are actually laid out* not only how the
facts claim that things are laid out. What you will often find is that there is sometimes a bit of a disparity between
Te facts and Se reality. It may not be huge and in many cases it doesn't matter. 
However in small systems* especially systems that involve your personal values Fi*. The lay of the land *is all that matters*
and* the Te is often irrelevant* or at least play a less important part than you normaly would expect.

The fact that you are married on paper is meaningless if your spouse has moved in with the parents.
The house is just as empty in Se mode, regardless of what seems to be the facts from a more detaced perspective.


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

hornet said:


> Okay.
> Basic area of coverage motivation.
> Motivation driven by 3 core fears. Fear, shame and anger, and they can manifest nine 9 ways.
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the link! That gave everything a really nice grounding for me.



> yeah it was probably not smart of me to ask both basic and advanced questions at once.


No that's ok. I like asking both basic and advanced questions at the same time. Sometimes the answer to a simple question can lead to a whole new avenue of understanding, and sometimes it takes an advanced question to understand something simple. 



> Heh maybe we should do a vid-chat in the type interatction thread just to top it of.


That would be cool, especially with comparing how the same functions are used differently by us. And we could talk about enneagram too. 



> Ah! I was right, but couldn't really spell it out in an organized way!
> Now I understand the divide so much better. I wasn't aware that Ti has a tendency to mistake opinion for personal values.
> My ISTP dad is very opinionated, but he is incapable of having any values off his own.
> He has to share them with others, he can't buy something without showing it off and getting feedback from others that
> ...


Sounds like you understand


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