# Something doesen't add up...hmm



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

....hmm I identify as ESI or ISFj...however my surroundings tend to just fall apart, I'm messy as fuck, HIGHLY disorganized...also tend to forget to eat, drink, sleep because I always find something better to do/watch/read/experience. :/ also procrastinate a lot and work in bursts...mostly last minute everything. I'm led by my level of interest. If I'm very interested in someting/someone...I can concentrate for days in trying to figure it out..almost obsessively in an over the top forsake everything else kind of way. If I lack interest, I'll just procrastinate it into oblivion...because I just don't feel like doing anything related to the task/person/object whatever.

:/ something isn't right because ESI is supposed to be the complete opposite. It isn't supposed to be led by whims, moods and passing levels of interest as I am.

...also really what is this about tradition and self discipline in ESI???...:S I can't really relate at all.

In every other aspect I relate.


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## Zero11 (Feb 7, 2010)

Sure that you are not 6w5? I am the exact same :wink:


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

Rim said:


> ....hmm I identify as ESI or ISFj...however my surroundings tend to just fall apart, I'm messy as fuck, HIGHLY disorganized...also tend to forget to eat, drink, sleep because I always find something better to do/watch/read/experience. :/ also procrastinate a lot and work in bursts...mostly last minute everything. I'm led by my level of interest. If I'm very interested in someting/someone...I can concentrate for days in trying to figure it out..almost obsessively in an over the top forsake everything else kind of way. If I lack interest, I'll just procrastinate it into oblivion...because I just don't feel like doing anything related to the task/person/object whatever.
> 
> :/ something isn't right because ESI is supposed to be the complete opposite. It isn't supposed to be led by whims, moods and passing levels of interest as I am.
> 
> ...


The last minute finisher is something synonymous with "Static" types (JiPe) as opposed to "Dynamic"(PiJe) types who find it easier to start projects though not finish them. I was surprised that it was in line with my MBTI:INTJ type indicator result too, "Pi" perspective can easily provide focus thus allowing an easy start. Yet as the project goes along I can become more demotivated as the "Pi" focus deviates alignment with "Je" thus causing demotivation due to realizing the flaws in the original focus.


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

Rim said:


> ....hmm I identify as ESI or ISFj...however my surroundings tend to just fall apart, I'm messy as fuck, HIGHLY disorganized...also tend to forget to eat, drink, sleep because I always find something better to do/watch/read/experience. :/ also procrastinate a lot and work in bursts...mostly last minute everything. I'm led by my level of interest. If I'm very interested in someting/someone...I can concentrate for days in trying to figure it out..almost obsessively in an over the top forsake everything else kind of way. If I lack interest, I'll just procrastinate it into oblivion...because I just don't feel like doing anything related to the task/person/object whatever.
> 
> :/ something isn't right because ESI is supposed to be the complete opposite. It isn't supposed to be led by whims, moods and passing levels of interest as I am.
> 
> ...


These are common behavioral caricatures that are not particularly important in comparison to the applicability of quadra values.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Zero11 said:


> Sure that you are not 6w5? I am the exact same :wink:


 not sure. I relate more to the 6w5 descriptions but people on the forum are convinced I'm 6w7...so I went with that. We are both 6-4-1, maybe that has something to do with it.



Boolean11 said:


> The last minute finisher is something synonymous with "Static" types (JiPe) as opposed to "Dynamic"(PiJe) types who find it easier to start projects though not finish them. I was surprised that it was in line with my MBTI:INTJ type indicator result too, "Pi" perspective can easily provide focus thus allowing an easy start. Yet as the project goes along I can become more demotivated as the "Pi" focus stops alignment with "Je" thus causing demotivation due to realizing the flaws in the original focus.


^^ ah yeah...its always easy to start something but finishing is a real problem. I tend start out with a lot of enthusiasm and end up not finishing a LOT of things. Lots of reasons for this from lack of motivation, to getting bored to finding something more interesting, being lazy etc.

I have this bell curve thing going on with stuff. I start out with enthusiasm, it then peaks and I get really good at whatever I'm doing...then I get bored, lose momentum and performance levels drop and I can't be bothered with it anymore...then I just move onto the next thing. Doing the same thing over and over is horrifyingly boring imo.

 jack of all trades, master of none is kind of how I work, thou I do seem to have a natural interest for machines, psychology and languages...so I enjoy learning that no matter what. Over time it adds up so my level of knowledge and experience in these fields can be quite vast..and diverse. Still the level of interest fluctuates even with this and it all leads to a very scattered "bursty" approach to things and people.


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

Rim said:


> not sure. I relate more to the 6w5 descriptions but people on the forum are convinced I'm 6w7...so I went with that. We are both 6-4-1, maybe that has something to do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So for you demotivation is the result of your "Ji" focus being unable to find the "Pe" that keeps things interesting isn't it? You know I now realise that introverted functions are the gift and the curse when trying to do stuff. On the plus side, they provide focus easily, a goal, yet at the same time that when that goal/focus doesn't bare fruit it feels disorientating.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

aestrivex said:


> These are common behavioral caricatures that are not particularly important in comparison to the applicability of quadra values.


Which would be?



Boolean11 said:


> So for you demotivation is the result of your "Ji" focus being unable to find the "Pe" that keeps things interesting isn't it? You know I now realise that introverted functions are the gift and the curse when trying to do stuff. On the plus side, they provide focus easily a goal, yet at the same time that when that goal/focus doesn't bare fruit it feels disorientating.


Hmm, I think you are right. This means introverted rational and extroverted irrational preference...hmm


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

Rim said:


> Which would be?


I don't understand what you are asking.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

aestrivex said:


> I don't understand what you are asking.


Not to speak for him, but I'm personally confused as to why you brought up quadras when he was addressing a specific type and made no mention of his quadra.


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> Not to speak for him, but I'm personally confused as to why you brought up quadras when he was addressing a specific type and made no mention of his quadra.


Because I think quadras are important, indeed perhaps more important than types which I sometimes view as specific sub-orientations within broader quadra orientations.


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## Airy (Feb 7, 2011)

Well, as for the 6w7 part, I'm 7w6 and I thought you were ranting about me =O (how rude of you! ). The 5 wing would make you feel more overwhelmed and wanting to conserve energy. You're expending it like it's the last night of your life. Might I ask if you're also sx first or second for your stackings? Wrong sub forum I know, but it's already being talked about haha.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Rim said:


> ...also procrastinate a lot and work in bursts... mostly last minute everything.


Irrationals typically work in bursts like you describe. Have you looked into closely related types like SEI or IEI?



> I'm led by my level of interest. If I'm very interested in someting/someone...I can concentrate for days in trying to figure it out..almost obsessively in an over the top forsake everything else kind of way. If I lack interest, I'll just procrastinate it into oblivion...because I just don't feel like doing anything related to the task/person/object whatever.


this may be instincts working here. i read on this page that sx people are lead by their likes and dislikes



> :/ something isn't right because ESI is supposed to be the complete opposite. It isn't supposed to be led by whims, moods and passing levels of interest as I am.


can also be strong introversion. which ESI subtype do you relate to, Fi or Se?


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

aestrivex said:


> I don't understand what you are asking.


o.o link plz. If you are talking about the 4 quadra descriptions...I relate a lot to Delta>Alpha>Beta>Gamma....thou idk exactly if I'm supposed to behave like that or I'm suposed to have those values or enjoy it in groups around me? (I don't really like groups enough to be able to tell )



Airy said:


> Well, as for the 6w7 part, I'm 7w6 and I thought you were ranting about me =O (how rude of you! ). The 5 wing would make you feel more overwhelmed and wanting to conserve energy. You're expending it like it's the last night of your life. Might I ask if you're also sx first or second for your stackings? Wrong sub forum I know, but it's already being talked about haha.


I'm a core 6 with a 4 and 1 heart and gut fix. I don't really know about what my subtype is all I know it ain't SP/SO or SO/SP...best guess so far was SO/SX...mostly for the reasons mentioned in the first post. Idk where my Sx is or what I should be looking for to discern it's place. I put SO first cus I used to have social anxiety or whatever is left of it....but really I don't like socializing for the sake of it and mostly just ignore that (tend to fall behind on the news, no inclination towards networking or keeping tabs on people either)



cyamitide said:


> Irrationals typically work in bursts like you describe. Have you looked into closely related types like SEI or IEI?
> 
> 
> this may be instincts working here. i read on this page that sx people are lead by their likes and dislikes
> ...


1. unsure, I'll read more into those 2 again.

2. Thx, unsure about my enneagram instinctual subtype. Read above.

3. I relater to how Fi is described...fully and completely...it is me.



> *ESIs are primarily attuned to the world of their own inner emotional states and emotional reactions to others. They may commonly be introspective and constantly in a state of trying to sort out the way they really feel. ESIs value their own sense of fidelity and life stability, and they may always try to treat others with fairness and decency. However, they often tend to be highly reliant on their attitudes towards others in directing their path through life, which can sometimes lead them down circuitous and complicated pathways and interfere with their moral rectitude.
> 
> For ESIs, connections with others mark a predominant and over-arching life focus. Though close contacts for ESIs often tend to be sparse, when ESIs find a degree of mutual respect towards others, they can be deeply empathetic, compassionate, and loyal. They may emphasize close connections and mutual understanding with others above all other things.
> 
> ...


<.< minus that last bit about traditional conservative outlook...thou if I take it as sticking to what i value and know to work well for me...then yeah that last bit is true as well.


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

Rim said:


> o.o link plz.


you want a link to what?


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## Airy (Feb 7, 2011)

You don't need to keep tabs om people or enjoy groups to be sx. Sx is about having and maintaining an intense connection with anything. Can be from learning about socionics to playing a game to talking to someone you find interesting. If it's first you're more likely to neglect other needs just to maintain the intense connection. You don't seem to care much about resources like paying bills on time which make me think sp is 2nd or last.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Airy said:


> You don't need to keep tabs om people or enjoy groups to be sx. Sx is about having and maintaining an intense connection with anything. Can be from learning about socionics to playing a game to talking to someone you find interesting. If it's first you're more likely to neglect other needs just to maintain the intense connection. You don't seem to care much about resources like paying bills on time which make me think sp is 2nd or last.


I am more likely to neglect personal health, maintenence, cleaning, money time and all that as well as other people in favor of expereincing something interesting, someone interesting, doing something interesting (this does not include drugs and that kind of crap, I'm into being lucid while gaining new knowlage and would like the use of my body to continue in doing so).

I like books, videos, taking things apart, beauty in nature, discovering someone's personality, their likes, dislikes, crazy ways they see the world..something profound PP etc. 

For example watching this sends shivers down my spine... breathtaking what it is:


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## Airy (Feb 7, 2011)

You do sound like an sx first. I'm sx first and going to bed on time is a constant struggle even during holidays. Heck, I woke up at 12pm and now it's 7:35am *oh sh!t not again!*. I think being a 7w6 really doesn't help =\. Late assignments, library fees, making up as many excuses as possible to not go gym cuz you rather find something to distract yourself. Worse yet, when you have unmet needs and have just come off a session of interest but instead of tending to a grumbling, in pain stomach, a headache and the need to go to the loo, you spend awhile looking for the next thing/s to catch your eye. Yup, I'm bad like that .

Ohh I really like that video too. Thanks for sharing. I disagree with the last part though. That we're participants of the activities and events of things going on around you just by being alive'. The video highlights the point we're all part of the universe and the universe is part of us as we originated from the stars. So dead or alive, those atoms are still in the universe and still part of 'the events going on and around us'.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Airy said:


> You don't need to keep tabs om people or enjoy groups to be sx. Sx is about having and maintaining an intense connection with anything. Can be from learning about socionics to playing a game to talking to someone you find interesting. If it's first you're more likely to neglect other needs just to maintain the intense connection. You don't seem to care much about resources like paying bills on time which make me think sp is 2nd or last.


Well, I don't care to pay bills on time either (I'm often late) and I'm sp first for example. I don't think paying pills on time has necessarily anything to do with sp. sp is more how you relate to your own self-preservation. Eating good food can for example to me almost be as good as good sex, hypothetically speaking. especially when I'm hungry.

I mean to clarify, other examples I'm bad at are taking showers regularly, clean my apartment, other kind of household chores, go shopping. I'll easily get stuck in a project that interests me for hours and I neglect my own physical health as a result, but it is hard to express how much I prize sleep, food and physical comfort. 

You can be an sp dom and starve yourself, but you realize how much you enjoy food whenever you eat someting good and you're hungry and you realize how much you enjoy sleep whenever you wake up in your bed and you realize you need to get up. I could spend my lfie eating, sleeping and doing things I enjoy doing. 

It has less to do with anxiety to maintain these things as it has to do with a satisfaction of fulfilling your physical needs and comfort after neglect.


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## Airy (Feb 7, 2011)

Depends which instinct serves the other. For me, I care about sp things and ignore more of the soc instinct. I care about my preservation a fair bit. Being healthy, living long, sleep, comfort and money are all very important that I think of often but despite enjoying those things like a nice, tasty and nutritious meal when bothered, they also feel like a real chore because they force me away from intense connections which I'd rather stay entwined in. I'd rather starve than eat now. And when I do eat, it's not as nutritious a meal as it could have been because I'm eating as efficiently as possible so I can get back to being absorbed. The same goes for money; it's important and I like to know I'll do enough to secure myself a comfortable enough future _so_ I can spend as much time as possible on connections. Sp serves sx for me even though I freak out about health and such as when I stay up and starve or get headaches I know I'm sabotaging my own self-preservation (and try to make up by eating healthier meals and popping vitamins). But it's a conscious choice I make because my priority isn't sp first.

Edit: I do also really love the sensation of waking up knowing you can sleep in all day long and suddenly sleep becomes highly cherished instead of something that I have to do and gets me off what I want to do. The same with a nice, nutritious and tasty meal when not already preoccupied, the meal and sensation itself feels like an intense connection but only so long as I don't already have something more interesting to distract me with.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

LeaT said:


> Well, I don't care to pay bills on time either (I'm often late) and I'm sp first for example. I don't think paying pills on time has necessarily anything to do with sp. sp is more how you relate to your own self-preservation. Eating good food can for example to me almost be as good as good sex, hypothetically speaking. especially when I'm hungry.
> 
> I mean to clarify, other examples I'm bad at are taking showers regularly, clean my apartment, other kind of household chores, go shopping. I'll easily get stuck in a project that interests me for hours and I neglect my own physical health as a result, but it is hard to express how much I prize sleep, food and physical comfort.
> 
> ...


o.o hmm yeah, I think you are right...I read this the other day by chance and all of it suddenly became clear as day: 

*bold:* I relate



> *SP blind spot* - lack of solid foundation, lack in comfort and coziness, lack in attention to health, maintenance, and personal safety. *Such individuals often have a hard time focusing on issues such as financial security or the commitment to the development of practical skills. There is fear is of being an "eternal child" who won’t take care of one-self and expectation of failure in dealing with self-preservation matters.* At the same time these people tend to look down on SP-domain and may express cynicism towards it e.g. call it "fearful" and "fussy", state that SP people "don’t know how to really live". When the instinct for self-preservation is last in the instinctual stacking, the individual will often be* somewhat ungrounded or seemingly "immature."* *The more extraverted SP-last individuals often find it difficult to develop a degree of “inwardness.”*
> 
> *SX blind spot *- subvert the fiery energy, tame the fire, don’t honor your passions,* procrastinate and postpone if you need to*, avoid anything stimulating. Inertia. When the sexual instinct is least developed, the personality can lack a certain charisma and momentum. These people may fear of being a boring, bland person, without passions, be afraid of having 'no juice', and feel flattered that someone wants to spend time with them. Their personal relationships can suffer from a lack of attention or attention that is too scattered.
> *
> SO blind spot* -* finds it hard to concern self with another’s agenda, dismissive. When the social instinct is least developed, the individual is going to find it difficult to see why it is important to form social connections or to cultivate multiple relationships. This, in turn, can lead to a certain amount of social isolation.* *As we all must find a niche in the larger whole, those whose social instinct is least developed, can find it difficult to negotiate the needs of the social realm which make this possible. **They may feel that connecting socially will cost them something and consider interactions to be draining. They may find interdependence difficult and dependence on others barely tolerable, and thus attempt to attain a type of independence and self-sufficiency which is not possible for human beings. This “false independence” can lead to unnecessary suffering and impoverishment of experience. They would rather act as a lone force, lone wolves, I'm-on-my-own attitude, feeling that they don't need others and others don't need them. Fear of being emotionally crippled, being unable to connect with many people, self-conscious of being socially ungracious. It’s hard to take in the gifts and generosity of others. Projected fear - if I ignore others, they will ignore me. There’s an expectation of humiliation. A desire not to impose self on people in fear of not being wanted or being klutzy.*


My brother pretty much just came out and asked how the fuck I failed to see how much of a social last I am....it was where my jaw dropped...cus yeah I don't have social anxiety anymore, I think I'm kind of awesome and my confidence has been restored.....so why do I always feel like a fish out of water in social situations? Why do I ignore other people's attempts at befriending me? :|...why do I neglect this area of my life so much? It dawned on me that its tue...I'm So last.

Based on what another Sp first told me here, my Sp side isn't very strong either. Considering that I am addicted to intensity, especially emotional intensity (which is why I love relationship drama and PAIN, melancholy and other things most people would consider bad)...imo I'm 6w7-4-1 sx/sp - so blind spot. Which makes sense as to why I'm soo good at one to one interaction and why that always impresses people...while I suck at socializing.  also makes sense as to why I get along well/like other Sx firsts on PerC and offline.

Am I the only one that would welcome world wide revolution and chaos just so the boring mundane days would change for once? ^^;....

*ANYWAY BACK ON TOPIC! <_< how do i figure out my socionics type?*


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## echidna1000 (Apr 20, 2009)

Read up on ILI. I think you should give that a go, especially looking at Introverted Ethics in the Mobilising form.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Jack Oliver Aaron said:


> Read up on ILI. I think you should give that a go, especially looking at Introverted Ethics in the Mobilising form.


...oh GOD the wikisocion ILI description is basically explaining my skepticism/self doubt/skepticism endless loop behaviour on PerC.....its what I do here...word for word....this is soo crazy.

<.< but yeah...that is about it, deeper down its a completely different world that I don't really see in myself.


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## echidna1000 (Apr 20, 2009)

Rim said:


> ...oh GOD the wikisocion ILI description is basically explaining my skepticism/self doubt/skepticism endless loop behaviour on PerC.....its what I do here...word for word....this is soo crazy.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Jack Oliver Aaron said:


>


Hm, I don't know, the rest of it doesn't feel right. I really don't like this T-F split that is happening in the descriptions. I mean who really is this far removed from either aspect? You are either a romantic poet writing about the stars or a reclusive scholar and scientist endlessly pondering the mysteries of the universe in his very own man cave *insert funny voice*.

o.o I'll just continue figuring this out for myself...in the MBTI I'm certain about being IXXP so far which is a huge leap from the doubt infested gutter I lay in a few months ago.


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## echidna1000 (Apr 20, 2009)

Rim said:


> Hm, I don't know, the rest of it doesn't feel right. I really don't like this T-F split that is happening in the descriptions. I mean who really is this far removed from either aspect? You are either a romantic poet writing about the stars or a reclusive scholar and scientist endlessly pondering the mysteries of the universe in his very own man cave *insert funny voice*.
> 
> o.o I'll just continue figuring this out for myself...in the MBTI I'm certain about being IXXP so far which is a huge leap from the doubt infested gutter I lay in a few months ago.


Well, doubt is a very IxI thing. Don't get me wrong, I do think Wikisocion (and Sociotype) paints an overly harsh view of ILIs. Here's another profile you may find more palatable: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/84-Balzac-Male-Portrait-INTp-by-Beskova


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

Jack Oliver Aaron said:


> Well, doubt is a very IxI thing. Don't get me wrong, I do think Wikisocion (and Sociotype) paints an overly harsh view of ILIs. Here's another profile you may find more palatable: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/84-Balzac-Male-Portrait-INTp-by-Beskova


Doubt is also a very E6 thing and not confined only to Ni-bases.


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

Kanerou said:


> Brock specifically mentioned that I was looking for someone to fight for me.


Yes, okay; I interpret my summary as identical the spirit of what he was saying.



> I had to really think about this. My gut reaction was "no, that's not what I'm looking for". I need to know I'm competent. I need to know I'm strong.
> [...]
> I severely doubt my own capacity to change things. My experience is pretty much that people are hideously irrational (especially when it comes to handling something calmly) and that my desires mean nothing to others if mine conflict with theirs. At some point, I seem to have locked myself inside a box of apathy; it's easier to stop caring than to be forever disappointed. My situation has changed, but my mindset hasn't, not in that area.


the primary element to what you are saying is "moral coruage", which is of thematic importance to both EII and ESIs. it seems to me that the way of thinking about moral courage that you are describing is primarily confrontational/challenging -- the assurance that you can "stand against whatever comes at you" (as opposed to something like "being wise and/or responsible enough to make the right decision").

the apathy you are describing, also, seems like the quality of retreating from bad sources, rather than moving towards and focusing on the potential benefits of good ones.



> The champion who serves and protects his lady, as it were? I'd forgotten about that. It's a bit curious, though; given the interaction of Ni and Se, I would have expected the Se-ego to be the one who fights for the Ni-ego. Why is that reversed in this pairing, or is there more of a mutual "we have each other's back"?


there is a mutual "we have each other's back" but it is reversed because it is a description of the LIE's mindset and not the ESI's one -- and because the LIE is the extrovert who takes the "first response." keep in mind that LIEs' "use" of Se is usually spontaneous.



> Overly-formal how?


overly formal, lacking in knowledge or ability to relate to others emotionally, the recurring voice of "why doesn't this person like me? how do i make them like me?"


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

aestrivex said:


> the primary element to what you are saying is "moral coruage", which is of thematic importance to both EII and ESIs.


I am fighting for "what should be". It is "right" for people to act a certain way. It is also "right" for me to be happy, and it is "right" for me to feel safe and secure. In that sense, I think I understand what you mean by moral courage - acting to ensure that what is right according to one's worldview occurs. It just feels a little strange to think of it from that angle; my concept of "moral" and "immoral" is more narrow.



> it seems to me that the way of thinking about moral courage that you are describing is primarily confrontational/challenging -- the assurance that you can "stand against whatever comes at you" (as opposed to something like "being wise and/or responsible enough to make the right decision").


I would put a slightly different emphasis on it, but yes. Of course, the worldview behind this "the world is bad and out to get me" is still something developed out of upbringing. On the other hand, I can see how my solutions to that problem ("find someone to fight for me" ----> "find someone to support me while I fight") still follow your line of reasoning.



> the apathy you are describing, also, seems like the quality of retreating from bad sources, rather than moving towards and focusing on the potential benefits of good ones.


Fair enough.



> there is a mutual "we have each other's back" but it is reversed because it is a description of the LIE's mindset and not the ESI's one -- and because the LIE is the extrovert who takes the "first response." keep in mind that LIEs' "use" of Se is usually spontaneous.


I think I get it.



> overly formal, lacking in knowledge or ability to relate to others emotionally, the recurring voice of "why doesn't this person like me? how do i make them like me?"


OK.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

Jack Oliver Aaron said:


> Now I'm not sure where to put Introverted Sensing for you. It could be Super-Id or it could be Id, I wouldn't know.


Yeah. I notice Si-related matters from time to time, but certainly not to the degree than a Si-ego would. For example, it took me years to notice that my ability to focus on non-interesting things crumbles when I need to eat. After being diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia, it took me a while to discover that sugar cravings indicate my blood sugar is about to drop. I still sometimes forget to pack snacks for when I go places, and if I do, I forget I have them. I have noticed that I feel better in knit pants than in jeans, but I usually don't think to change into my knit pants when I get home. I have a tendency to ignore my physical needs if I'm doing something more interesting; I don't like taking the time to do "boring" stuff. And this is why I am where I am in life. (-.- )

I definitely get a lot of enjoyment out of taste, texture, smell, etc. I had a sandwich yesterday with chewy herbed bread. It was awesome, though the ingredients inside could have tasted better; sitting here, I can think up substitutions that would really work well. However, I don't enjoy cooking. I want good food but don't want to spend a lot of time making it. I don't bake, don't often cook stuff in the oven, and gravitate toward "throw in the microwave" meals when I have the money to buy them. Unfortunately, those appear to contribute to my weight gain, as evidenced by the fact that I stopped gaining weight when I stopped being able to buy them, so I have to really cut back. It's been exacerbated by the hypoglycemia; when my blood sugar drops, I don't want to wait 30-40 minutes before enjoying my food. I will have to make myself make food, though; I’m going to try handling my own food money again this semester, which means budgeting and not overspending on convenience food.

I'll nag others to take better care of themselves, but I don't actively do it for them. I'll help someone out if they are sick. Otherwise, their legs/arms aren't broken. I welcome other people helping me out - offering solutions for my problems (which I may or may not follow), doing the things I cannot or don't want to do. I just have a certain part after which such help becomes annoying. I don't need my car door opened for me; I feel stupid sitting there, waiting for someone to walk around and open it when I am perfectly capable of doing so myself. I'm cool with others opening the door for me, especially if I need help, but I don't know that I'd make a habit of waiting for someone to open it. Same with someone pulling my chair out so I can sit. People helping me off a stage... nah. I can get down myself.

I say that I’m lazy, and I really am, but only to a point. I’ve gotten to the point where I’m more willing to take the elevator in the English building, but I spent much of last semester taking the stairs. In fact, my default response in many school buildings is to take the stairs if I’m not going that far up. It’s not a commitment to be healthy or exercise, I think, just a natural habit; when I actually think about it, it tends to be something like “Taking the stairs is faster”. I have a similar experience with taking the bus. There are times when I’m just like, “Screw it, I’ll take the bus as far as I can and save myself some walking”. Even in that situation, though, I’m factoring time in to some degree. I could just sit in that bus until it runs by my stop, but that’s an extra 10-15 minutes, and my apartment is about a 10-minute walk from the Student Union (where I usually catch the bus at school). When I choose not to take the bus at all, it’s because I can get home faster by walking. (Then there are the times when the bus overtakes me while I’m walking because I figured I could get there faster. That pisses me off.)

Finally, there is the situation I mentioned here. I still see how that could be interpreted as Si. 

I realize that the types I’m looking at both have capability in Si (it’s weak for EII, but not as weak as the PoLR or Suggestive), so I don’t know how helpful the post will be as a whole.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

@aestrivex @Jack Oliver Aaron

Apologies for the triple post. I'm moving my type discussion here, in an attempt to keep the discussion out of other threads. Rim doesn't seem to mind the derail in this thread, but others are bringing it into additional threads, and that annoys me. Should you have any additional comments, please take them there.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

@Rim, Socionics Types: IEE-ENFp

(i don't know much about socionics--just started reading about it at work since i have nothing to do)

you sound a lot like an IEE, which also sounds a lot like Jung's extroverted intuitive. 

for whatever it's worth.


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## itsme45 (Jun 8, 2012)

aestrivex said:


> overly formal, lacking in knowledge or ability to relate to others emotionally, the recurring voice of "why doesn't this person like me? how do i make them like me?"


I'm curious - how does Fe superid differ from this approach?


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

itsme45 said:


> I'm curious - how does Fe superid differ from this approach?


Fe superid -- more correctly Fe suggestive for the same comparison -- has the focus directed not on the relations between people as Fi suggestives do, but on the atmosphere of the mood.

In particular it is described of Fe estimatives that they are oriented towards being well-liked in group settings -- but this is not exactly correct; really it is that they are oriented towards having an impact on the mood and making people feel comfortable and/or having a positive effect on the current mood -- being "liked" is a poorly worded proxy to this idea.

The reaction of Fi suggestive/Te dominants, however, is more directly "why doesn't this person like me" -- they are very insecure about figuring out what other people are feeling inside.


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## itsme45 (Jun 8, 2012)

aestrivex said:


> Fe superid -- more correctly Fe suggestive for the same comparison -- has the focus directed not on the relations between people as Fi suggestives do, but on the atmosphere of the mood.
> 
> In particular it is described of Fe estimatives that they are oriented towards being well-liked in group settings -- but this is not exactly correct; really it is that they are oriented towards having an impact on the mood and making people feel comfortable and/or having a positive effect on the current mood -- being "liked" is a poorly worded proxy to this idea.
> 
> The reaction of Fi suggestive/Te dominants, however, is more directly "why doesn't this person like me" -- they are very insecure about figuring out what other people are feeling inside.


Thanks for the clear explanation. How would mobilizing function differ from suggestive here (both Fi and Fe)?


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

itsme45 said:


> Thanks for the clear explanation. How would mobilizing function differ from suggestive here (both Fi and Fe)?


in my interpretation the mobilizing function is more consciously processed, less insecure, and easier to develop than the suggestive function. still, it is unconscious and a point of growth that not all people are greatly aware of. however, when it is developed it is also more easily "stubborn" -- unwavering in the assessments that it makes. so for instance, Fi estimatives can tend to be fully unwavering in their moral principles or conviction that such-and-such person is contemptible, or have difficult being willing to consider new information when they have figured out the emotions that other people are feeling (from an interior locus). Fe estimatives can be unwavering with respect to the exterior emotional space and their place in it -- continuously being cheerful and gregarious and trying to get people to liven up even if everyone is pissed off at them, or having difficulty considering new information when they have figured out the hidden messages that underly a situation, and so on.

see also
Model A - WSWiki
User:Aestrivex/essays/the pathetic hidden agenda - WSWiki


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

By the way, if Kanerou is not an EII than I am not either which is funny considering that we don't share MBTI and enneagram types. When it comes to socionics though, I cannot agree more with her, she usually tends to take things out of my mouth. Also, I'm also a bit more abrasive and assertive than what EIIs are typically described as but I know for a fact that Se is my PoLR because I really, really dislike when Se is used against me or someone else. As I wrote in my type me threads, I'm a pacifist and I do not believe in violence. I read somewhere that an EII cringes at the use of violence in fiction even which is strange since I'm a big, big fan of violent fiction may it be films or video games.

But then if you look at how I behave IRL I have incredible issues asserting myself and I consider it to be one of my absolute definite weaknesses. Also, I would most certainly not cause as much drama as your sister would. As for the question about children, I wouldn't be in charge either as I find myself utterly useless at trying to mobilize people like that, ESPECIALLY children. Anyway, the possibility of even bringing up punishment in that scenario made me cringe a little but of course, it depends. If I saw it as a necessary requirement I would but I would be terrible at carrying it out. I just often have this feeling that people don't seem to take me seriously in those kind of situations for some reason.

And this is probably not helping Rim necessarily but if he wants I can pour more about my soul or lack thereof if he wants a comparison of how I think as an EII, but I identify as an Ne subtype rather than Fi subtype. While I recognize the rigid judgementalism of what Kanerou wrote, I think my Ne is expressed more strongly. I'm more able to see possibilities and just be overall whimsical (with people I trust, of course). That's why I mentioned Fox Mulder earlier in this thread because I think his character is a good example of an EII Ne subtype. Especially note how he constantly teases Scully and how she teases him back. I think that teasing is in general a pretty strong delta dynamic between two people who enjoy each other's company that many perhaps seem obnoxious to other people.

I have a delta friend and while I am not sure what type her boyfriend is, but he in particular seems to constantly tease her to the point where you just roll your eyes. There's also an ESTj who is friends with these two people and the teasin can become pretty ridiculous in that area as well. It's just one of those examples where you are unsure whether you should laugh or roll your eyes, although it's usually a combination of the two in the end as an outside observer. I don't personally mind though, it's the kind of group dynamic I prefer in the end, but I suppose it might help to study how you are around other people and what kind of people you prefer to be around with. 

I for example clearly prefer serious over merry types. An example of the differences can be seen in the video between Kanerou and Lady Lullaby where Kanerou is clearly serious and Lady Lullaby clearly merry. Look at how Lady Lullaby always seem to laugh, smile and such in order to maintain a positive atmosphere and how Kanerou just kind of... doesn't care lol. She goes on with her rambles that are most definitely typical of delta monologues as well and I do the same thing, haha.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

LeaT said:


> When it comes to socionics though, I cannot agree more with her, she usually tends to take things out of my mouth.


Do you mean the theory or personal motivations?



> Also, I'm also a bit more abrasive and assertive than what EIIs are typically described as but I know for a fact that Se is my PoLR because I really, really dislike when Se is used against me or someone else.


I hesitate to link a preference for or against violence with Se valuing/nonvaluing. It is one means of asserting yourself, sure, and it can be effective in certain situations, but there are so many other ways to do so as well. I see Se more as a willingness to exert your will on others or against others (or things). Concerning the use of Se against others... I actually have a very strong aversion to being ordered around, to the point where I am hypersensitive to it. I can actually become quite rebellious in a show that I do what I please and that they have no power over me. I used to think this was Se-PoLR, but perhaps not.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kanerou said:


> Do you mean the theory or personal motivations?


That we seem to think very alike function wise




> I hesitate to link a preference for or against violence with Se valuing/nonvaluing. It is one means of asserting yourself, sure, and it can be effective in certain situations, but there are so many other ways to do so as well. I see Se more as a willingness to exert your will on others or against others (or things). Concerning the use of Se against others... I actually have a very strong aversion to being ordered around, to the point where I am hypersensitive to it. I can actually become quite rebellious in a show that I do what I please and that they have no power over me. I used to think this was Se-PoLR, but perhaps not.


I am also terrible at asserting myself when I desire to and I'm also hypersensitive to situations that to others are probably seen as a natural use of force. On phone atm so I explain later


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

LeaT said:


> That we seem to think very alike function wise


yes but can you actually offer any concrete observations of how you and kanerou are similar? so far you have only stated some terminology like you usually do, and then quoted a post and said "yeah this is like what i do." for my part i think you are nothing alike -- kanerou does not typically rely on terminology nor relate to descriptions sloppily, instead, she carefully evaluates all of the material on socionics she reads and hesitates for some time before applying it to herself.

can you explain what i am missing in terms of concrete observation, or are you continuing to breathe hot air?


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

aestrivex said:


> kanerou does not typically rely on terminology nor relate to descriptions sloppily, instead, she carefully evaluates all of the material on socionics she reads and hesitates for some time before applying it to herself.


I think I did rely more on terminology in the beginning. However, by the time of my type thread on the WS (about 8 months into exploring Socionics,) I had realized I was rather unskilled at doing it correctly, so I stopped.


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