# N vs. S.



## Slicknick9283 (Mar 27, 2010)

As an ENFP or a general F, I've found it grating to be around "S" types too long. ESPECIALLY "ST" types. I'm sure what anopther feeler would think, but I'm wondering about you guys. I know how hard it is for me to think objectively and take everything at face value, it feels unnatural. DOes anyone else agree, or have difficulty with the S types?


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

yes-- but for different reasons. I can't really let go and be myself around them, they won't understand me. I have to act like an S to fit in. But that gets boring after awhile. I do have some really good S friends, so it isn't true in all cases, but just in general.


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## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

I can't help but feel people are making more of a difference between S and N types than there really is. To be quite honest it because of things like this that lump categories of people that have made me abandon the whole MBTI system. I am not saying it is wrong to look to identify what it is about the people you get along with and the ones you do not, but for me personally I think it is the whole N vs S "feud" that has ruined this whole experience for me. It seems that the majority of N's give themselves much more credit then they genuinely deserve. 

But what would I know as I am still unsure what my own type would be. 1/2 the people I talk to think I am sensing the other half think I am intuiting. Most the tests are split the same way. 


Sorry if this is not the type of reply you are looking for, it just is hard to ignore these threads when I see them so often.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

It's not that I am using the MBTI to label people and arbitrarily create divides. But there have always been large numbers of people that I just don't get along with very well. I want to be more social than I am, but it's hard to find people I click with. The N/S divide seems to provide an explanation for that, since S's outnumber N's 3-1.

Even still, it doesn't guarantee that I get along with all N's or don't get along with all S's


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## NotSoRighteousRob (Jan 1, 2010)

I always blamed not getting along with people on the fact that most of them are idiots. That seems to be a more reliable tool of measuring someone than an S vs N preference. I mean, lets face it, this earth is populated with people that are just ignorant, and tend to be rather proud of how much they think they know. 

But I could be wrong.. It's possible that most the ignorant people are S types, so maybe we are both right in this aspect. I don't know about that though.


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## BerkshireHunt (Mar 26, 2010)

I've got more ESFP friends than any other type. They're fun and don't ruin thenight with an opinionated tirade the way another ENTP might - good balance between me and them.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

BerkshireHunt said:


> I've got more ESFP friends than any other type. They're fun and don't ruin thenight with an opinionated tirade the way another ENTP might - good balance between me and them.


Yeah, ESFP are one of the S types I seem to get along best with. That and ISFJ, for some reason!


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## Slicknick9283 (Mar 27, 2010)

OK I think I hit a nerve somewhere along the way, or I was misinterpereted!

I DON'T hate anyone for their type preferences, but what I'm saying is that it's hard for me to relate to them, because I feel that I live in a very abstract world sometimes.

Interesting views all the same. I should repost on the NF side and see the difference.

By the way, stop taking this stuff personally guys. I dont see anything wrong with any method of discovery and asking a simple opinion. I'm not looking to alienate myself but rather to understand the world around me better.

so put that in your pipe and smoke it.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

Would you like me to move this to the Myers Briggs forum, so you may receive comments from both NTs and NFs (and any SFs and STs lurking around who want to chime in).

I can definitely say that I'm more energized by Ns than I am with Ss, especially with strangers. I'd say there's more of an understanding between fellow Ns than Ss, as well as a deeper intellectual stimulation, at least in some areas.

Of course, though, I'm going to comment on the whole 'N v. S' part. I may have received the better end of the stick, but the 'debate' and what seems to be general N bias on such typology forums has actually given a newfound appreciation for the Ss I know in real life, especially the SJs. I've seen a lot of insults either way, but it's given me a new perspective on the fact that, even though I differ from them, the Ss around me (the ones who care for me, at least) have really made an effort to understand me. My ISFJ best friend has made leaps and bounds in the area of trying to accept me - she's even tried to compromise herself, which isn't a good thing, but it's helped her to understand me and to understand her better as well. My mother, an ESFJ, and my father, an ESTJ, have been pushed by how much I've challenged what they've thought or fought with them, which is something I'm not entirely proud of, but in the end, I appreciate how much they've tried to accept and understand me, as well as let me be honest with who I am.

I may be more interested off of the bat with Ns, but I wouldn't hold them as superior in any way in my relationships over Ss. Beyond the types, they're only people.


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## wealldie (Jan 24, 2010)

Superiority or bias? I don't think it has anything to do with superiority over S-types. There are certain personality types -- MBTI or not -- that I can spend a lot of time with, and certain ones that I can't spend much time with at all. As *Grey* says, there are many S types who are willing to come around and better understand N ways of managing things, and it definitely makes it easier to get along with them. Unfortunately, I find it difficult to come around and see the S ways of doing things, and that's what makes it difficult for me to have a lot of dealings with that type. But just because I can't come around doesn't mean I believe they are any worse of a personality, just that they have their place that isn't really the same as my own. There are always exceptions, and there are always variations in all people's behaviours, and it can't really be narrowed down to type. I, however, can say that the absolute most horrible relationships that I've had in my life have been with S-types (but these are direct interactions, and not some general concept of "S"-ness). If there wasn't some kind of bond of family or bond of proximity, I would never have chosen to have had much to do with them. And later on in my life, it's become much calmer and pleasant with less interactions of a similarity. I don't think I'm worse off for having had these interactions, and I can attribute more knowledge, understanding and awareness... even from personalities I come away disliking. 

On the other hand, I have a general sense of superiority to most people I have direct interaction with, and it's one of my biggest social failings... because it really bothers a lot of people. But it's not S N T F P or J related... it's just because I like a challenge, and I intimidate most people away from even the first step in challenging me. But when it happens, whatever the type, it is bliss. ENTP or ENTJ, and perhaps ENFP in a more unusual way, usually end up being the best challenge.

Edit: I also want to add that I have a good ESTP friend that I have kept for 10 years (a rarity). He can be very creative and abstract and is also a real go-getter. And the best part about him is that he doesn't take my mocking of him, nor any of the confrontational comments that I say, too seriously; and he is very adaptable. I do have issues with his personality that are best dealt with by simply avoiding more time than necessary together... but the interactions we have together are very good.


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## Apollo Celestio (Mar 10, 2010)

There is difficulty, unless you're both there for a specific purpose outside of hanging out. Though with N's they're much more likely to dislike you for petty reasons and tend to be pretentious.


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## Slicknick9283 (Mar 27, 2010)

Grey said:


> Would you like me to move this to the Myers Briggs forum, so you may receive comments from both NTs and NFs (and any SFs and STs lurking around who want to chime in).


That would be cool actually 

Thanks for the insight Grey. I've found the same to be true. 

I think us "N" types have a natural tendancy to feel a little more alienated. It's one of the reasons I love this forum, because theres a sense of validation when hearing people who understand where you are coming from.


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

unleashthehounds said:


> Yeah, ESFP are one of the S types I seem to get along best with. That and ISFJ, for some reason!


Oh, that's funny, my best friend is an ESFP!


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

The only Sensors I tend to have problems with are ESTJs and ISTJs. Te, Si, and I simply do not mix very well.


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## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

RighteousRob said:


> I can't help but feel people are making more of a difference between S and N types than there really is. To be quite honest it because of things like this that lump categories of people that have made me abandon the whole MBTI system. I am not saying it is wrong to look to identify what it is about the people you get along with and the ones you do not, but for me personally I think it is the whole N vs S "feud" that has ruined this whole experience for me. It seems that the majority of N's give themselves much more credit then they genuinely deserve.
> 
> But what would I know as I am still unsure what my own type would be. 1/2 the people I talk to think I am sensing the other half think I am intuiting. Most the tests are split the same way.
> 
> ...


I see where your coming from. While this post didn't bother me much, just seeing a ton of threads of this nature does.
In other posts (and in other communities), I notice N-elitism or other forms of elitism and I don't like it. We all have unique strengths and weaknesses and we all have something to learn from each other. No matter how different we are, there's usually something to bond over. 

I notice a lot of Ns say they feel misunderstood, I can relate to that too but being misunderstood isn't really exclusive to intuitive. 
I don't believe INFJs are the rarest types or that Ns are relatively rare. And if that's true, I really don't care. I don't know where these statics come from but i know a lot of people wear them like a badge and are proud to be 'rare'.

I also disagree with some of the literature that says Ns and Ss are unsuitable matches for each other. I just see these kinds of things as limitations, and just another wall that keeps us apart. I really think it depends on the individuals, personal preferences and how they handle the conflicts. 

I love the Jungian concept of the shadow and think that can make sense of a lot of misunderstandings: Dr. Carl Gustav Jung's Concept of the Shadow

Sorry I went off on a bit of a tangent but I just wanted to say something about this topic as well.


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## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

It's not necessarily N-elitism, as you put it, but for me, it is just an explanation for what I've known, or felt, my entire life. I don't think I'm better than any S types but I know I've had a hard time getting along with, understanding, or being understood by, certain people, and now that I understand MBTI , I've come to realize most of those people are S types. If anything, I feel I've been the victim of S type elitism, although it really isn't since most of these people don't even know what MBTI is, but they do know that there are more of them than of people like me. I can totally understand why Ns want to wear it like a badge of honour. It is a much healthier response than feeling like a mutant. What's wrong with being proud of who you are?


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## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

napoleon227 said:


> It's not necessarily N-elitism, as you put it, but for me, it is just an explanation for what I've known, or felt, my entire life. I don't think I'm better than any S types but I know I've had a hard time getting along with, understanding, or being understood by, certain people, and now that I understand MBTI , I've come to realize most of those people are S types. If anything, I feel I've been the victim of S type elitism, although it really isn't since most of these people don't even know what MBTI is, but they do know that there are more of them than of people like me. I can totally understand why Ns want to wear it like a badge of honour. It is a much healthier response than feeling like a mutant. What's wrong with being proud of who you are?


I guess I've had a number of conflicts with both S and N types, and many cases of bonding for both as well. I understand where you're coming from in a way. I was an outcast (and was bullied) in my early school years and probably a great deal of that had to do with my type and being the minority in that case. And I hated the isolation and saw myself as weird. I'll have to admit that reading about my MBTI type helped me feel good about myself and recognize that I have value too.
I believe that everyone is a minority or an outcast for some reason or another some time in their lives and I don't think it's something unique to Ns, though it does happen to us. I don't think bullying or elitism is acceptable in any form. My vision is that we can all connect and bond more and value each other for who we are and what we have to share and teach each other. I'd like for understanding to always be the goal.This goes for all types.

When I discovered MBTI I saw it mainly a tool to understand and improve interpersonal dynamics (as well as understand how I fit into the big picture). I want to use my understanding to build bridges and tear down walls.


Sorry if I sounded a little high-handed or whatever in my last post. I don't think you are an elitist but I know there are some people who think NTs or Ns are brighter than those who are not, or people who are attracted to the idea of being an INFP/INFJ because they want to be seen as rare, or those who think they are more valuable than a less rare type.

I agree that it's good to like who you are and recognize your value but I also think it's good to recognize the value in others even if they are more common. I think it's good to be both proud of how you are and appreciative of the differences around you.

I don't see being an N as either positive or negative. It just is. I know I have something valuable to contribute to the world around me and l also know that I have a lot to learn from the world of people around me too.


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## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

silverlined said:


> Sorry if I sounded a little high-handed or whatever in my last post. I don't think you are an elitist but I know there are some people who think NTs or Ns are brighter than those who are not, or people who are attracted to the idea of being an INFP/INFJ because they want to be seen as rare, or those who think they are more valuable than a less rare type.
> 
> I agree that it's good to like who you are and recognize your value but I also think it's good to recognize the value in others even if they are more common. I think it's good to be both proud of how you are and appreciative of the differences around you.
> 
> I don't see being an N as either positive or negative. It just is. I know I have something valuable to contribute to the world around me and l also know that I have a lot to learn from the world of people around me too.


I don't think you sounded high-handed at all - it's just a friendly discussion. : )

I understand your point and I agree with you. I think that for some people, rejection by one group means they'll embrace the group that accepts them and react by finding ways to feel superior to the group that rejected them. It's an emotional thing, not a rational one. I would say that it's human nature, except that I don't want to get into a debate with any philosophers about how there's no such thing as human nature, LOL. Hopefully you will know what I mean. :happy: 

Your last sentence says it all, I think that is the right attitude to have, or at least the one I strive for.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

The difference is about 5 letters. Think about it.


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## Slicknick9283 (Mar 27, 2010)

Here's the thing. I dont have any kind of elitism. Its just very difficult to understand a sensor on a very deep level for me. My world is very abstract and subjective. I tend to see things differently from a lot of poeple. I have a lot of S friends, its just hard to understand them or find common gorund sometimes


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