# Which language and country should I consider?



## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Sorry if the title doesn't seem clear, because there's a character limit and I don't know how to phrase it.

I kind of want to start learning a language because I want to leave the UK sometime after I've left university. Unfortunately, each time I've tried learning a language, I've just given up. I feel like that this could be from a lack of motivation (either the language seems too easy or too hard for me) and/or a lack of resources. I feel like I don't know if I'm fluent in that part of the language if I find it too easy, although I might actually just be forgetting it out of a lack of practice. I think I could benefit most from being taught the language myself by a teacher, but I'd have to pay for it, and the free Spanish beginner's course I've been offered in my school, well, let's say I don't remember much of it, but those lessons had the benefit of not having the same degree of pressure compared to my mandatory subjects (none of which were, and are related to languages) i.e. no compulsory homework.

After thinking about this, I've decided on these options. I've particularly decided to ask on which language I should start to learn because I feel like that this is one of the more pressing requirements for me in terms of citizenship and that the paperwork seems a bit easier. I've also read online, however, that it'll be difficult to get a job in a country that's not seeking foreign labour because all the ones that are easy to get for foreigners will all be taken up by immigrants who have lived in the country before me and students, both of whom understand everyday life of that country better than I would, and I'd like to find out how to overcome that. 

This may be based on an earlier thread, and I've decided to make this because I aimed to continue the discussion from then. So here are my options:

*Norway: *good politics and good standard and quality of life. However, the fact it's not part of the EU (the UK still is, but we have a referendum on it at June) means these people face issues such as rotting fruit in grocery stores and lower standards for everything, and people there are very conformist according to this blog I read.
*
Denmark:* warmest part of Scandinavia, slightly harder language and slightly less friendly politics (i.e. the ruling party right now)

*Sweden:* prefer the language compared to Danish and Norwegian, but like Norway, is cold. Like the UK and Germany, maintains diplomatic links with North Korea, which I shouldn't care about, but their concentration camps make me wish for death on the DPRK.

*Germany:* good quality of living (even the residential areas of Berlin are really clean), GEMA and other forms of censorship which extends beyond content sympathetic of the Nazi party

*Austria:* issues with censorship (not sure if GEMA is an issue there), language not my preference (as with Germany); however, biggest issues there may be finding it hard to get a job as someone who hasn't integrated and probably not having various online services available to me.

*Finland:* hard language, but cheaper to live in than Scandinavia. Under the impression they have a lower immigrant population than Scandinavia as well, so I won't be able to integrate to their way of life as quickly.

*Iceland:* few means of getting there, and applying for a work permit as a British citizen is hard.

*Poland:* less secular than Britain and Scandinavia, hard language, xenophobia, being able to live off food in communal farms

*Italy:* same as Poland except warmer; worse politics than Britain, easy and/or aesthetically pleasing language, probably a lower cost of living? In the middle of a crippling recession.

*Switzerland:* like Austria, except not in EU and having mandatory conscription

*Japan:* cool but hard language, all the media that's accessible only in that country available to me when I move there, high conformity, salaryman lifestyle i.e. no breaks

*Canada:* need a Green Card to live there, shorter mandatory paid leave compared to Europe, cold, requires air travel and somewhat complicated process to acquire a permit or something, may need to know French

*New Zealand:* too far and issues with online service availability


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## Introvertia (Feb 6, 2016)

If you plan on moving to Finland / living in Finland, the fact is you must learn the language.
There are very few jobs available in Finland for people who can't speak the language fluently. 

There's the immigration / refugee "crisis" going on in here currently. Unfortunately, it's not an ideal situation for foreigners in general, at least not yet. I have foreign friends who struggle with finding a job, although they're highly educated otherwise, but they're not fluent in Finnish.

One rare exception being an American friend who can't speak the language but got a job in the university (mostly dealing with numbers, research, statistics).


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Slav countries are not recommended.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Introvertia said:


> If you plan on moving to Finland / living in Finland, the fact is you must learn the language.
> There are very few jobs available in Finland for people who can't speak the language fluently.


I guess language fluency is pretty much a given for living in Europe. However, I feel like that there may be other obstacles, such as specific documentation for Iceland and Canada, and general job availability and integration even if you are fluent in a language.


> One rare exception being an American friend who can't speak the language but got a job in the university (mostly dealing with numbers, research, statistics).


For your American friend, I think this is because in university, a good command of English is typically required. I feel a bit ashamed I can only speak English, as this is a rather (true) stereotype applied to British citizens, for whom their knowledge of other languages suck and language education is quite irregular.


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## Sunn (Mar 12, 2014)

East Coast Canada stays above a cozy 20 F/1 C most of the year because of the mountain ranges. It's also very close to Washington which is also the same Geographically if the Cold weather is really an issue for ya. 

You don't really need to know french btw, it'll help you acclimate but it's not mandatory. If you really want somewhere comf. to be I'd choose Canada but I'm completely biased as an American probably. 

:happy:



Aya the Abysswalker said:


> Slav countries are not recommended.


Completely this' There's a reason why they're called Slavs. It's not a good reason either.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Sunn said:


> East Coast Canada stays above a cozy 20 F/1 C most of the year because of the mountain ranges. It's also very close to Washington which is also the same Geographically if the Cold weather is really an issue for ya.
> 
> You don't really need to know french btw, it'll help you acclimate but it's not mandatory. If you really want somewhere comf. to be I'd choose Canada but I'm completely biased as an American probably.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I've heard that Québec doesn't like universal healthcare very much. The cold weather is an issue for me because the UK is the coldest place I've been in. The temperature never goes below -5 degrees Celcius. The Philippines, on the other hand, always reaches the thirties, but never gets as hot as the Middle East unless global warming gets its way.

Still, I hope there's more sun there than in the UK. I can live with the rain, but the fact that it's always cloudy there is part of the reason why that country's such a depressing place to live in.


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## Sunn (Mar 12, 2014)

SJWDefener said:


> Unfortunately


Crap, I'm sorry! I sounded like a total fool by saying East. I meant West Coast.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Sunn said:


> Crap, I'm sorry! I sounded like a total fool by saying East. I meant West Coast.


I'd move to the West Coast (US, not sure about Canada which is just Vancouver AKA north Seattle) if it were 10 years ago. Yes, there's a ton of cultural diversity there, but there's always this mainstream culture that pervades it all, in terms of the music and fashion, and I don't really like the music and fashion of the 2010s. Plus, I'll have to put up with crappier things for a higher price (e.g. celebs' tops) due to the culture and the weaker currency even though I'm near an expensive city.


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## Shade (Oct 11, 2013)

I voted Canada solely based on the fact that that's where I would go... 

Anyway, as A swede, let me adress some of the things you said.

Language: I've actually heard that Swedish is a pretty hard language to master, though I can't quite see why that is. Swedish and Norwegian is pretty similar, learning one fluently will make you pretty decent in the other. I can sort of understand a few words here and there in Danish as well, though that language is seriously messed up...

Weather: Sure, it can get quite cold. The worst I've experienced is somewhere around -30 degrees Celsius. However, given that most of our bigger cities (Stockholm (capital), Malmö, Göteborg) is in the lower half of Sweden, the place where you'd most likely end up would be considerably milder during the winter. I grew up in Stockholm and a normal January, which is the coldest month, the temperature would be somewhere between -10 to -15. -20 and below would be considered colder than usual and warmer than -8 would be mild. The summers get quite hot though, I don't think there's much difference between the UK and Sweden in that respect. The warm weather only lasts for a shorter period of time here.

North Korea: Don't know much about our connections there, but Sweden likes to pride itself on being a "neutral" country, who hasn't been in an armed conflict in over 200 years and sort things out via diplomacy. Meanwhile we were quite friendly with the Nazis and had soldiers in Afghanistan (keeping peace with a rifle in the hand...). So I'm guessing it's some sort of "engaging in dialogue" and not a sign of support for the regime.

So yeah... If your considering going here, you may wanna get it done before our next election in 2018. Our very own racist party keeps on gathering steam, and our government just barely managed to stay in power without giving in to some of their demands the last time around. I doubt foreign students, especially from the UK is their first, or even 100th, priority, but you never know how things turn out.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Distry said:


> I voted Canada solely based on the fact that that's where I would go...
> 
> Anyway, as A swede, let me adress some of the things you said.
> 
> ...


I'd consider Sweden to be "good" for not being taken over by the Nazis, but I'm beginning to find any cooperation with the DPRK to be unaceptable.

Might have to just consider Norway out of Scandinavia. People are saying that they're still sane despite the refugee crisis. I plan to move after uni, so it might be a bit harder for me to integrate to wherever I'll go, but a bit more easier in places like Canada and New Zealand which have a higher percentage of immigrants.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Sunn said:


> Completely this' There's a reason why they're called Slavs. It's not a good reason either.


Nothing against them, I'm dating one, I've been in a Slavic country, but they're not too welcoming of non-whites and Germanic people. Non-whites because they never had many of them and most of them remain in the big cities, especially capitals, where multiculturalism is stronger.
Germanics is because WWII and Germany decided it was a good idea to #killallslavs.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Aya the Abysswalker said:


> Nothing against them, I'm dating one, I've been in a Slavic country, but they're not too welcoming of non-whites and Germanic people. Non-whites because they never had many of them and most of them remain in the big cities, especially capitals, where multiculturalism is stronger.
> Germanics is because WWII and Germany decided it was a good idea to #killallslavs.


I have a feeling that Slavs are becoming fascists as well.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

SJWDefener said:


> I have a feeling that Slavs are becoming fascists as well.


The Slavs have never been very open people, they like to live in their corner of Europe and not to be bothered by anyone. That's not exactly fascist, it's bitterness. The Slavs have been very massacred in recent History (either by Russia or by Germany).

Fascism and fascist has become a meaningless word to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you and/or are bullies. Like George Orwell said in 1944:


> The word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless... Almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'.


But regardless, a lot of Europe is become actually Fascists as a response to the wave of refugees, this is especially true in poorer countries where people can barely survive or keep a job (such as Greece, Poland or Portugal) and are forced to give refugees jobs and houses that one of the people who were born and raised there can only dream of. The problem is that and that's why people become hostile of people who come from the outside nowadays.


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## Goya (Nov 26, 2015)

I feel a bit lost, do you want to move for some months/years/forever? Also, what qualifications do you have? Those are quite important to answer your question.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

So you don't like cold weather? Yeah?

Seems like most of your choices are nowhere near tropical (maybe I'm missing your preference).


First, any language is difficult without actually living in a country that speaks it. I studied German for like 2 years in University but when I studied there, I could barely ask someone where the fucking Bahnhof was. But I learned very quickly once there.

I chose New Zealand cuz I have a few friends that went there for a year and it seems like a pretty laid back country with happy people that love the outdoors.

But if asia is something you're considering, why not some place with very low cost of living but very high standards plus high pay. Japan is expensive. Taiwan, for example is crazy cheap (not to mention subtropical) but modern. I taught english there and made 3 times more than the local, certified teachers.

Anyway...good luck


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Goya said:


> I feel a bit lost, do you want to move for some months/years/forever? Also, what qualifications do you have? Those are quite important to answer your question.


I'm looking to get a degree in games technology, but I'm not in university yet, so apart from programming jobs, I don't think I'll be very well set up if I'm looking to do anything other than those, unless I'm willing to accept any other job with lower pay or something like that. I'm looking to move 5 years after university when I've saved up enough for the move and gained enough career experience.

I'm looking to live in the foreign country for the rest of my life, only visiting the UK occasionally.


johnnyyukon said:


> So you don't like cold weather? Yeah?
> 
> Seems like most of your choices are nowhere near tropical (maybe I'm missing your preference).
> 
> ...


Taiwan sounds interesting especially because of the foreign language and culture, but I've heard that unless you're only there for business or to teach English, it's hard to make a living there; I think a video by Rachel and Jun covered this on how it's like to live in Japan, IDK. Plus, I'm worried about living in or near China, as China doesn't recognise Taiwan's sovereignty and the UN follows suit.

New Zealand is just really remote, that's my big complaint about it. Plus, as it's surrounded by a body of water and is near the South Pole, I assume it'll have the same weather as the UK. Like my sister said, cold weather isn't worth it unless there's snow :tongue:, but I shouldn't make that my no. 1 priority. I think it may then again have to do with the fact that NZ accent resembles the current British accent. Since America gained independence long before the British started building their empire, they still speak how the British did 300 years ago.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Oh, I might want to add a couple more countries, just not sure if I can update the poll accordingly:

*Netherlands:* the only issue with this is that if global warming gets really bad, this country will cease to exist :sad:. Unlike most of the previous countries I mentioned, I've been here before (as well as in Germany), and it seems like a great place to live in. The only other issue is just being able to integrate and acquire citizenship, like with Austria also.

*Taiwan:* I've been talking about this with one of the other people in the thread. Interesting culture and language, but its links with China and lack of recognised sovereignty may pose an issue. Also, as with many other countries which are ethnically homogeneous, it's hard to make money there unless you're living there for business or to teach English.

*Brazil:* I'll have big problems here, obviously. The crime, poverty, poor quality of life, mandatory conscription and it housing most of the world's Catholics may be enough to throw me off of living there, but it's got a nice rainforest rural environment, which I much prefer over the admittedly bland European countryside, and tons of sun especially if I choose to live near the coasts.

Austria right now will be hard for me to live in because of the refugee crisis. Even if it's over, finding a job will be even more difficult as available places would have been taken by said migrants and their children.


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## Goya (Nov 26, 2015)

Why would you want to leave the UK? I mean, I wouldn't like to move there because I like my own country (the weather, people, way of living...), but it seems like a good country to live in. 

Moving to a country, especially if you plan to do it permanently, is a big decision. The whole post seemed to me to be a bit all over the place, you're probably still too young to figure out out now what you want for the future. You really need to go through what you look for in that future country (better weather? cheaper life?...), the language barrier and working permits. And every detail that might be life changing. For example, it's crazy difficult to get a visa to live in Japan permanently, unless you find the love of your life and get married. If you get a divorce, even if you have kids, you'll be kicked out of the country. If you have kids, at the age of 20 they'll have to choose what nationality they want to keep, as Japan doesn't allow double nationalities.


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## Riven (Jan 17, 2015)

Goya said:


> Why would you want to leave the UK? I mean, I wouldn't like to move there because I like my own country (the weather, people, way of living...), but it seems like a good country to live in.
> 
> Moving to a country, especially if you plan to do it permanently, is a big decision. The whole post seemed to me to be a bit all over the place, you're probably still too young to figure out out now what you want for the future. You really need to go through what you look for in that future country (better weather? cheaper life?...), the language barrier and working permits. And every detail that might be life changing. For example, it's crazy difficult to get a visa to live in Japan permanently, unless you find the love of your life and get married. If you get a divorce, even if you have kids, you'll be kicked out of the country. If you have kids, at the age of 20 they'll have to choose what nationality they want to keep, as Japan doesn't allow double nationalities.


The Netherlands also doesn't recognise dual nationality, and I'm wondering about the logistics of getting that processed, i.e. when and how to revoke my British nationality on acquiring Dutch nationality.

Yes, I might be a bit young to think about which country I want to move to, but I have to say, I never really liked living in Britain. I liked how chilled any North Americans who live(d) here are compared to the British residents (many sound pissed off, especially when I come across families with their children), and when I visited the US for a while, quite a lot of the time was spent watching TV because I found British TV boring (not sure when I started watching Doctor Who, but it was during the last half of the 2000s and I loved it). In fact, I decided to get a somewhat American accent simply because I thought it sounded cooler. 

Later on, quite recently, I've begun to hate how this country is run, not just because of tuition fees (which doesn't exist in the rest of Europe and may be close to becoming like the American system, which is why so many of its people are struggling financially), but also because the UK ranks poorly versus Scandinavia and Canada in terms of, say, the quality and standard of life and how happy its citizens are. I also feel ashamed to be funding (parents' tax money, though) an organisation (GCHQ) involved in one of the world's biggest surveillance programs. I want to move early because I don't want to die here and knowing I spent most of my life in this country; I've already spent most of my childhood and my teen years away from the Philippines, but that's another story.

That's something new I've learned about Japan. There is Google, but people are rather selective on what information they look up. Even though moving to Japan means I can get all the music and movies I want from there (because Japan dares not take risks by going international bar a few companies, namely the big tech ones) and the culture in terms of what they put out in the media seem so much better than what the West are doing for their mainstream culture, but everyday life in Japan seems a bit dull, actually. There's this salaryman lifestyle, where guys spend more time at work (usually at some office job for some company) and with co-workers than their family, and barely take any days off and barely get enough sleep; the only other alternative is hikikomori, i.e. becoming a recluse and being financially dependent on parents and/or meagre government benefits.


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## katemess (Oct 21, 2015)

SJWDefener said:


> Sorry if the title doesn't seem clear, because there's a character limit and I don't know how to phrase it.
> 
> I kind of want to start learning a language because I want to leave the UK sometime after I've left university. Unfortunately, each time I've tried learning a language, I've just given up. I feel like that this could be from a lack of motivation (either the language seems too easy or too hard for me) and/or a lack of resources. I feel like I don't know if I'm fluent in that part of the language if I find it too easy, although I might actually just be forgetting it out of a lack of practice. I think I could benefit most from being taught the language myself by a teacher, but I'd have to pay for it, and the free Spanish beginner's course I've been offered in my school, well, let's say I don't remember much of it, but those lessons had the benefit of not having the same degree of pressure compared to my mandatory subjects (none of which were, and are related to languages) i.e. no compulsory homework.
> 
> ...


Rule out Norway and Sweden unless you want to be living in almost total darkness for over a month of the year. 

I would recommend New Zealand or Australia (not on your list), but I might be biased being Australian. They're both beautiful countries; Australia is not quite as isolated as New Zealand; their economies are both relatively good; the weather in Australia is lovely; there is a lot to do in New Zealand (particularly if you like winter/extreme sports); and you wouldn't have to learn a second language. 

If I had to move anywhere else in the world, I would move to the UK, so maybe we should just do a swap? :tongue:


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