# Fe smiles vs. Fi smiles



## chwoey (Mar 29, 2012)

Do you guys think there is a validity to the idea of Fe smiles looking clearly different from Fi smiles?

I'm not sure how I feel about it, is it possible to determine fe/ti or te/fi based simply on a smile?

Here is Dakota Fanning, an apparent ISFP (Fi-dom)









Here is Oprah, an apparent ENFJ (Fe-dom)









What do you guys think?


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## Elyasis (Jan 4, 2012)

I think we would need a larger sample size than two.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

There are lots of things you can deduce from body language. I don't think Fe/Ti or Te/Fi is one of them.


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## chwoey (Mar 29, 2012)

Elyasis said:


> I think we would need a larger sample size than two.


Those were two examples, I have read lots (especially from those cognitivetype people) that says it is easily determined based on a smile.

I'm trying to figure out if I believe it. If it makes any sense.


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## MisterDeborah (Apr 4, 2013)

Eh.... no. I have to admit, I'm kind of a stiff about this one. Smiles have gotta be mostly split between genetics and something learned from parents and friends growing up. Personally, I don't totally believe in the cognitive function theory, but, something like, 98% of people here do, so I'm not gonna kick against the pricks too much Although there's an awesome link in my sig cough cough. Cognitive functions are, well, cognitive, right? So they're going to show in our communication (or lack thereof). Yeah, smiling is definitely a kind of communication, but (at least in my mind, it would seem that) just because people have similar smiles does not mean they think remotely similarly. I don't think the subconscious works _that_ hard on making sure your smile identifies with what direction of feeling you express.




But... really, though... cognitive functions... I think they just lead to more confusion than conclusion, areas like this being a good example of that.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

I would see that more examples would be necessary, because you only showed the smiles of the dominants. This of course doesn't mean that I even think Fe/Fi smiles are really that different (just extroversion and introversion I would assume).

That being said my facial expressions tend to fairly clearly reflect my internal states. Outside of maybe melancholy.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Fi is from within, Fe is a reflection of how the other person is smiling at the Fe user, Fi smiles probably last longer than Fe smiles and are probably more wider, so my guess is Fi smiles are wider and last longer and more relaxed, Fe smiles are more short bursts of smiles... ??


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## Devrim (Jan 26, 2013)

Both Dakota and Oprah are said to be ENFJ,
Oprah is a definite though!

I wouldn't say there's much of a difference,
Smiles have nothing to say about personality xD


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

chwoey said:


> Do you guys think there is a validity to the idea of Fe smiles looking clearly different from Fi smiles?
> 
> I'm not sure how I feel about it, is it possible to determine fe/ti or te/fi based simply on a smile?
> 
> ...


You are looking at the end product, which will often be inconclusive.

What actually happens with Fi smiles, is the person will actually have to comprehend and respond internally before making a smile. Because of this, Fi smilers are slower to smile (but not always a lot longer, might just be a fraction of a second), more genuine in their smiles (usually, obviously some smiles can still be staged, but Fi has a concern for genuine in general unless the person has a particular motive), and an Fi smile will almost always have a bit of a "snear" look to it at first, for just a second. After the snear, it might grow to a full blown smile, or it might stay a snear, or it might just depart altogether into a deadpan face again, depending on how the person reacted with the Fi.

Fe on the other hand, since it is externally motivated and judged, does not require the internal thought process and thus a person with Fe, especially Fe dominant, will naturally evoke a full blown smile almost instantly, even at times when the smile isn't justified (this is especially true for tert/inferior - they aren't always so great at knowing when to and not to smile). But the key here is an Fe smile, or really any facial gesture, will be quickly brought to fruition relative to Fi gestures, as Fe is trying to respond to the stimulus and not trying to reflect on how it makes them feel internally.

Granted, as the theory goes, everyone is technically capable of using all types of cognition but....that is what can be seen with some consistency when you notice those with Fi in the top 4, vs. Fe in the top 4.


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## rawrmosher (Apr 22, 2013)

Everyone is capable of fake and real smiles... if anything I think an Fe type would be more likely to fake smile more often to try and put people at ease. If you aren't sure which is which, look at the eyes. They brow muscles only wrinkle during a real smile because it's pretty hard to get them to move on demand. 

But I'm pretty sure you can't tell if someone is Fe or Fi just by looking at thier smile. From my experience though, Fi users(including myself ) seem to have deeper/ more emotional eyes in a way. Just an observation.


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm not really sure whether I believe the whole smile difference or not as well. As others have said it seems there are a lot of other factors. 

I think it might be interesting to look at people's smiles when alone vs. when interacting. 

personally, though I'm not sure this has to do with anything, I will find my smiles feel like they quickly become 'fixed' and sort of droop, and my face will get sore when smiling while conversing with people - even if I'm genuinely happy. I feel that this is related to having to put a little extra effort into reflecting other people's smiles and making an outwards display. While I do sometimes get a huge smile on my face when I'm all by myself, I also think I tend to enjoy the emotions a little more internally without necessarily smiling every time I'm happy (in fact sometimes I can appear to be scowling when I am actually quite happy or content). Also when focused on interacting with others I feel like I get input-overload and can't just focus on the happy thought/feeling, even when it is the conversation or person in front of me causing the happiness - I know that may sound wierd, but honnestly, I think I may sometimes feel more strongly when I am thinking about someone while by myself than when I am looking them in the face, because then I'm distracted by picking up cues from them and trying to gage what they're feeling and thinking, and I'm distracted by being more aware of how I might look to them. 

I do certainly experience contageous smiles, and I do naturally reflect other people's expressions without specifically thinking about it, even if I feel like it does seem to take more energy.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I think it's sometimes applicable, sometimes not applicable. I got an obvious Fi smile, Flatlander does not. There are probably other reasons why people smile the way they do beyond cognitive functions. I think the way people smile can be a cue to whether they favor Fi or Fe though, but I wouldn't use it as a fool proof method. I think the "stares" are actually a more accurate when it comes to VI typing. Se stare just never goes wrong.


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## chwoey (Mar 29, 2012)

Kamishi said:


> I think it's sometimes applicable, sometimes not applicable. I got an obvious Fi smile, Flatlander does not. There are probably other reasons why people smile the way they do beyond cognitive functions. I think the way people smile can be a cue to whether they favor Fi or Fe though, but I wouldn't use it as a fool proof method. I think the "stares" are actually a more accurate when it comes to VI typing. Se stare just never goes wrong.


Please, can you show me or explain what a Se stare is/looks like?

I still have a very hard time believing that I am a Se-dominant, or even a Fi user.. So perhaps seeing a Se-stare and applying it to myself might provide some clarity.


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## chwoey (Mar 29, 2012)

Mzansi said:


> Both Dakota and Oprah are said to be ENFJ,
> Oprah is a definite though!
> 
> I wouldn't say there's much of a difference,
> Smiles have nothing to say about personality xD


Aah, I just put Dakota as ISFP because CognitiveTypes used her in their FiSe video, and they're the ones I've mostly heard of typing based on how someone's smile looks.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Se-ESFp
http://gallery.socionix.com/Gamma/Se-ISFj/

Bob Dylan is perhaps a very good example of the FiSe look. 

You might also be interested to know that the person in your avatar also has an Se stare.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

Well I think everyone expresses with their smile, but some people have animated eye and other facial expressions as well.


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## deep_intuit (Jun 9, 2013)

Fe has a politician's smile and Fi has a more genuine smile.


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## Vexed (Jan 28, 2012)

There's a topic discussing this in another forum but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link it.


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## Madeleine44 (Mar 26, 2013)

I've heard a lot about figuring out one's cognitive function's through their use of body language however I'm a bit skeptical over it. I don't think you can deduce a persons type just by looking at them


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## SystemEater (Aug 5, 2012)

Fi smiles are curious, enigmatic, personal. They seem to be smiling at something unseen. Fe smiles are broad, warm and intense. They seem to be GIVING you the smile, as opposed to HAVING something to smile about.


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