# Are INTPs by far the type most likely to be socially inept?



## Cobble (Dec 6, 2016)

morgandollar said:


> Yeah, maybe I am under-estimating how others perceive me. Sometimes I feel like people don't like me, think I'm a weirdo, etc, but maybe I'm more liked than I think I am, and more socially adept than I believe myself to be.


This will sound like a "man hitting on you" flattering cliche line but it doesn't make me less sincere. Please know that I personally really appreciate your presence and intervention in this forum, and that I believe that you're as lovely in real life.


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

It goes something like this:

If you type people as INTP because they are socially inept, then the people you typed as INTP will be socially inept. Then social ineptness becomes an even clearer trait in the subset of people you typed as INTP. Then you spread along this subset of people who represents "INTP" to others, and they also start to type people as INTP due to social ineptness, and maybe you even confirm what you started out with (that INTPs are socially inept), strengthening your opinion that INTPs are, in fact, socially inept. And then those others start out where this paragraph started out with yourself...

This is what happens in Internet typology communities (just think of INTP/social ineptness as an example), and is "fake news" typology.

Instead of creating cycles like the above one by falling into the pitfall of typing people by stereotype and then being complicit in spreading and reinforcing those very same stereotypes, you can instead look at real studies and see how INTPs fared in them. And based on what I've read, there is nothing that singles out INTP as *the* socially inept type, or clearly more socially inept than other introverted types (say, INFJ).

*If you catch yourself thinking that people are INTP due to social ineptness, step back, relax, deprogram yourself from thinking that way, and hopefully your mental connections will re-form in a way that brings them closer to an accurate viewpoint.*


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

Cobble said:


> This will sound like a "man hitting on you" flattering cliche line but it doesn't make me less sincere. Please know that I personally really appreciate your presence and intervention in this forum, and that I believe that you're as lovely in real life.


Thank you! I really appreciate that. I've been working really hard to cultivate kindness in myself lately, I think I grew up being self centered (in part because a lot of people didn't treat me with respect growing up, also in part because of my struggle with OCD, which ironically began due to me having an intense concern for others' well being) but by working hard to become more observant of myself and my surroundings (INTPs struggle with this form of awareness, I think) I think I've become a lot more effectual at making others happy.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

chamelea said:


> I have a wonderful INTP friend and it’s interesting because he shows both sides of being quite smooth with his words, but then fumbling over just saying hi to a pretty lady.
> 
> Definitely can blurt things out that can be considered inappropriate but mainly has done that around closer friends. Otherwise I find it super easy to communicate with him. People usually like him quickly, as he developed a sense of humour from his occasional awkwardness in communication. He doesn’t realize how much people like him till I mention it. Then he gets a quiet pleased look on his face.
> 
> ...


I'm loving this. +1

Yeah, I can be shy around women too, particularly in real life. Online (facebook etc) I can be very flirtatious, even to the point of making myself look like a lovestruck idiot in the past by coming on too strong, but in real life I find it hard to approach women. At least if I feel attraction for them. I'm worried they're going to think I'm coming onto them or something, and I'm just nervous about them judging me negatively in general in a way I'm not about men or women I don't feel attraction towards. But lately I've become a lot more confident, and I'll give women I know compliments on their hair and stuff like that if they got a haircut, you know, just saying nice things. I even do that to dudes and my lesbian friends sometimes just to show I appreciate them, doesn't have to be a woman I'm attracted to.

I've learned to become more self-deprecating too. Not in a pathetic way to employ sympathy, but for example - I'm pretty heavy and sometimes I'll make quips about my weight if it fits the context of the conversation. Like I'll say "you know I like food" or something if we're talking about food. I've learned to take criticism much better. Like I used to flip my shit if people told me I lacked talent in something I was passionate about, or if they criticized me for being rude, but now I consider it a favor. People criticize others most of the time because they want to tell them how they can improve themselves. Sometimes an ego check is a good thing!

I don't usually dress great (though to be fair neither does my ENFP brother and a lot of other guys, and indeed some women) but recently I've made an investment in Nike Golf shirts and I always make a point of brushing my teeth, putting on deodorant etc, whereas in the past sometimes I was too depressed or just straight up unaware of the importance to care. I used to not do a lot of basic stuff and I think since I have done those things I've noticed I've gotten a lot more respect (I'd been unemployed for a while, but since I've been working I've been expected to take care of myself, which has helped a LOT).


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## ArtXie (Jun 5, 2018)

I don’t think INTPs are the most socially inept. If anything, I think (no offense! I love you guys) INTJs are even more socially retarded. I have many INTP friends. Many of them are likeable and some even socially charming. Fe helps them understand certain social norms. One of my best friends is an INTP with aspergers and he’s probably the funniest person I know. He can be awkward, yeah, but he learned and understood how social interactions work so now he can follow through the motions if necessary. The smartest INTP I know is bright but kind of hard to approach, but he’s nice and makes an effort to check in on me. 

INTJs I know on the other hand... if they’re mature, healthy, and developed, they are a fountain of joy for me. But a lot of younger/immature ones tend to have a god complex and come off really weirdly. Especially when they flirt. It’s kinda incel-like, haha.. they think everyone is stupid and that they’re better a lot of the time, unless you prove yourself to them. They make for great conversationalists if you happen to get along or vibe well, but to get to that level is pretty rare most of the time. They have a cold wall and exterior but are true softies on the inside. Fi can be sort of selfish and can lead to feelings of moral superiority. Left in a hands of an unhealthy INTJ and you got yourself a true degenerate


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

* *






ArtXie said:


> I don’t think INTPs are the most socially inept. If anything, I think (no offense! I love you guys) INTJs are even more socially retarded. I have many INTP friends. Many of them are likeable and some even socially charming. Fe helps them understand certain social norms. One of my best friends is an INTP with aspergers and he’s probably the funniest person I know. He can be awkward, yeah, but he learned and understood how social interactions work so now he can follow through the motions if necessary. The smartest INTP I know is bright but kind of hard to approach, but he’s nice and makes an effort to check in on me.
> 
> INTJs I know on the other hand... if they’re mature, healthy, and developed, they are a fountain of joy for me. But a lot of younger/immature ones tend to have a god complex and come off really weirdly. Especially when they flirt. It’s kinda incel-like, haha.. they think everyone is stupid and that they’re better a lot of the time, unless you prove yourself to them. They make for great conversationalists if you happen to get along or vibe well, but to get to that level is pretty rare most of the time. They have a cold wall and exterior but are true softies on the inside. Fi can be sort of selfish and can lead to feelings of moral superiority. Left in a hands of an unhealthy INTJ and you got yourself a true degenerate





Ouch, that "unhealthy INTJ" realm sort of describes a lot of behavior which comes naturally to me.

At least in the sense of dating someone who I feel is really intellectually beneath me seems like a bore, _*tips fedora*_.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

ArtXie said:


> They have a cold wall and exterior but are true softies on the inside.


I think this is true for INTPs too. We're warm on the outside, and kinda cold a bit further down, but I think most INTPs have a warm "core" even further down as well that's often not acknowledged. I might not have the strongest affective empathy and I may not cry at other people's sorrows very often, but I do _care_ and I want people to be happy, and I feel loyalty towards the ones I love.


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## xVladdy (Sep 19, 2018)

Cobble said:


> INTP me *thought* she was socially inept.
> 
> There are clichés about sociability that made me think that. Someone social has to appreciate people's presence. Someone social has to be an extrovert. Someone social must be good at sympathizing. Someone social has to actively talk/interact with people. Basically, my definition of "someone social" was the opposite of the "INTP me wanting to be left alone 99% of the time".
> 
> ...


I am no INTP but I completely empathize with that. And empathy is something I rarely do lol.

Speaking from experience, I am sometimes surprised by people whom I had thought they hated me. Based on these few interactions that I had with them, I was always assuming the worst. And I still am. Assuming the worst about myself _and_ others. It's something I got stuck with from past experiences where only the worst of people had shown to me; and me not letting it down, I showed the worst of me. Doesn't help much that I'm choleric either...
I am surprised how, for instance, yesterday, of all the colleagues, the one who I thought hated me deeply was the first one to wish me all good (it was St. Michael and Gabriel, and one of my names is Michael). Not even my deskmate (he often calls me his best friend) or my actual best friend wished me anything.

I think it's important to regard yourself as apt for social interaction. You're an introvert? Doesn't matter! Go out there confidently and beat the odds! But don't plunge so quickly. Take your time, consider what you're going to say, how you're going to say it, and then do your thing. It's kind of ironic how he, who doesn't talk that much and is anxious when talking to others, advises others what to do to avoid being like him.


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## Senah (Oct 17, 2017)

Hmmm...I feel like with INTPs there is a level of social ineptness but it is hugely affected by nature vs nurture. My feeling is that depending on someone's looks, family, and social environment this can, to a certain degree, mitigate the effects of the trouble that most INTPs have interpreting social cues and emotion. For example, if you grow up fairly good looking in a large, gregarious family and decide that you want to emulate popular people, you would perhaps learn some of the social cues and hygiene habits that would make you more accepted. You would also likely be more able to converse and do well socially. 

That said, there is often I feel still a problem understanding social cues, emotion, and meaning when it comes to relationships (romantic or friendships). How much and well prepared you are by your nature/nurture experience and how confident you are would I feel translate to how well you navigate this challenge in your close relationships. If you can say to a partner, "I am not good at getting mixed or silent signals - I care but you need to bluntly tell me what you are feeling" than this can be good. Otherwise people can say hurtful things or blunt things that can really go over badly, or not notice when someone is upset and it be interpreted as being cold or callous. Sometimes also there needs to be communication that some things are worth making extra effort for so that people are not hurt or your partner isn't embarrassed or work life/personal life made more difficult.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

Senah said:


> Hmmm...I feel like with INTPs there is a level of social ineptness but it is hugely affected by nature vs nurture. My feeling is that depending on someone's looks, family, and social environment this can, to a certain degree, mitigate the effects of the trouble that most INTPs have interpreting social cues and emotion. For example, if you grow up fairly good looking in a large, gregarious family and decide that you want to emulate popular people, you would perhaps learn some of the social cues and hygiene habits that would make you more accepted. You would also likely be more able to converse and do well socially.
> 
> That said, there is often I feel still a problem understanding social cues, emotion, and meaning when it comes to relationships (romantic or friendships). How much and well prepared you are by your nature/nurture experience and how confident you are would I feel translate to how well you navigate this challenge in your close relationships. If you can say to a partner, "I am not good at getting mixed or silent signals - I care but you need to bluntly tell me what you are feeling" than this can be good. Otherwise people can say hurtful things or blunt things that can really go over badly, or not notice when someone is upset and it be interpreted as being cold or callous. Sometimes also there needs to be communication that some things are worth making extra effort for so that people are not hurt or your partner isn't embarrassed or work life/personal life made more difficult.


I think NTs in general tend to have more autistic type traits than other types.


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

morgandollar said:


> I think NTs in general tend to have more autistic type traits than other types.


Es and Js integrate more with society while IPs both:
a) get drained from social interactions (I)
b) are more stubborn when it comes to giving up their individuality for some kind of outer world goals (not J)

I don't think there's evidence to the point floating around that INTPs understand people worse than other types, but rather that their preferences are such that they simply *don't care* about this sort of "integration with society" as they feel they would get more personal negatives than positives from doing so and thus are likely to sort of go their own way, as "lone wolves".


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

I just met my first confirmed INTP on Thanksgiving. I was very excited when he said he was INTP because I enjoy the humor & insight of the ones on here & have been anxious to meet an INTP in real life. Actually I knew him prior & suspected he was an INTP because in the few interactions we'd had, he appeared very shy (Maybe not so much shy as just quiet & taking things in. Could see his wheels turning big time. Also pretty shy though.), extremely intelligent & had a super dry sense of humor. At any rate, I'd had a couple of days of socializing before Thanksgiving & was not in the mood for more. Talking with him was the highlight of my night. I hadn't been that stimulated in a conversation in real life in quite some time. He kept pushing, digging, challenging & saying "I'm going to stop. Gosh I'm such an asshole." which made me laugh because I was in heaven. It wasn't small talk & I was so sick of small talk by that point. He wasn't being an asshole at all. He was definitely testing & challenging, but I enjoy that. Actually I felt bad for him because I could see him trying to restrain himself because he was concerned about hurting my feelings. But I also knew he wanted to just let it rip. I was trying to encourage him & make him feel safe to say what he wanted to say. It was pretty fun just to see how his brain worked. Anyway, I very much enjoyed our discussion & hope to have more. That's all.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> I just met my first confirmed INTP on Thanksgiving. I was very excited when he said he was INTP because I enjoy the humor & insight of the ones on here & have been anxious to meet an INTP in real life. Actually I knew him prior & suspected he was an INTP because in the few interactions we'd had, he appeared very shy (Maybe not so much shy as just quiet & taking things in. Could see his wheels turning big time. Also pretty shy though.), extremely intelligent & had a super dry sense of humor. At any rate, I'd had a couple of days of socializing before Thanksgiving & was not in the mood for more. Talking with him was the highlight of my night. I hadn't been that stimulated in a conversation in real life in quite some time. He kept pushing, digging, challenging & saying "I'm going to stop. Gosh I'm such an asshole." which made me laugh because I was in heaven. It wasn't small talk & I was so sick of small talk by that point. He wasn't being an asshole at all. He was definitely testing & challenging, but I enjoy that. Actually I felt bad for him because I could see him trying to restrain himself because he was concerned about hurting my feelings. But I also knew he wanted to just let it rip. I was trying to encourage him & make him feel safe to say what he wanted to say. It was pretty fun just to see how his brain worked. Anyway, I very much enjoyed our discussion & hope to have more. That's all.


I'm an INTP, and so is my 17 year old sister and we get along amazingly. Few people understand me as well as she does! We have the same thoughts a lot of the time.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

morgandollar said:


> I'm an INTP, and so is my 17 year old sister and we get along amazingly. Few people understand me as well as she does! We have the same thoughts a lot of the time.


That's pretty great to have a sibling that's the same type! I imagine it has to be very comforting knowing someone so close to you (family) gets you. You can be your complete self around them.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I consider them more so apathetic than inept 

Like lacking common sense on deciphering between fine lines.

I just notice they (and ISTP) specifically when adolescent males can say some fucked up things they do not realize are reaching. And I am not politically correct. That is my point is if an ESTP can look at you and just be like really are you fucken serious you just said that, what you said could be really offensive and out of touch. They aren’t ever seeming to try and be offensive but maybe just that they think they are justified in offending others while getting all butt hurt themselves if someone treaded on them the same.

IPs in general can be huge hypocrites about not taking what they dish. 

I have to say one of the most annoying poker games I ever played was with an INTP. He was winning. I swear to like whole heartedly promise I was not competitively invested In this game hard core. It was fun and I liked keeping up with him and an ISTP who was also playing In our last several rounds. I did not consider myself to their level I was having fun keeping up while I could. 

Anyways the INTP was pissing me off not because he was winning because every fucken time he would get me he would be like a 5yr old saying things like haha, and gotchya, and got a weird ass smile of way too much delight for it being preliminary battle rounds and not game finale. It was so fucken obnoxious I wanted to stab his hand with a fork. Like dude isn’t the fucken haha in laying the winning cards down do you actually have to say this shit out loud. He would sit and call out the deficiency in each round and it was fucken ANNOYING, kinda like let people have their ah ha moment and discover on their own. 

INTP would benefit from team sport 
Not talking about any interest in sports
Referring to good sportsmanship conduct and winning with some fucking class and integrity


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

Sensational said:


> I consider them more so apathetic than inept
> 
> Like lacking common sense on deciphering between fine lines.
> 
> ...


I agree. IxTPs can be pretty hypocritical when it comes to sensitivity. I believed and said some pretty offensive things I'm sure when I was younger, and was even a bit of an Internet troll, but I've become a lot more tactful with age, as well as much more accepting of criticism. I don't think it's entirely the male INTPs either - some female INTPs can be rude and self righteous too.



Sensational said:


> I have to say one of the most annoying poker games I ever played was with an INTP. He was winning. I swear to like whole heartedly promise I was not competitively invested In this game hard core. It was fun and I liked keeping up with him and an ISTP who was also playing In our last several rounds. I did not consider myself to their level I was having fun keeping up while I could.
> 
> Anyways the INTP was pissing me off not because he was winning because every fucken time he would get me he would be like a 5yr old saying things like haha, and gotchya, and got a weird ass smile of way too much delight for it being preliminary battle rounds and not game finale. It was so fucken obnoxious I wanted to stab his hand with a fork. Like dude isn’t the fucken haha in laying the winning cards down do you actually have to say this shit out loud. He would sit and call out the deficiency in each round and it was fucken ANNOYING, kinda like let people have their ah ha moment and discover on their own.


That guy just sounds like a dick honestly. I'll often congratulate people if they beat me at a game, and I'm not very competitive.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Ocean Helm said:


> I don't think there's evidence to the point floating around that INTPs understand people worse than other types, but rather that their preferences are such that they simply *don't care* about this sort of "integration with society" as they feel they would get more personal negatives than positives from doing so and thus are likely to sort of go their own way, as "lone wolves".


 That's true for me anyhow. 

The thing about "social ineptitude" is that the phrase isn't meaningful unless you supply a standard, a model of social ability. That means that social ineptitude is relative. If I apply my modelâ€”people who are sloppy with verbal expression and don't even care, those who expect others to read their minds instead of clearly stating what they want, etc.â€”then it would be types other than INTPs who would be socially inept. 

The relativity of social ineptitude makes it a relatively (haha) useless (and potentially misleading) concept in my opinionâ€”what discussion of some group's social ineptitude really is, is a discussion about that group's performance in relation to some implicit set of social rules/expectations while omitting discussion of who is bad at other sets of social rules/expectations and the specifics of why some sets of social rules/expectations receive more focus, are considered more important, etc. 

I agree with others' comments that apparent ineptitude may not be a matter of lacking ability so much as a matter of not giving a damn, and, I'll add, not giving a damn on multiple levels: the first level is not valuing a social rule in the first place such that following the rule never becomes default behavior for the INTP despite that adherence being default behavior for other people. (And the lack of a default behavior can make one seem more inept than lacking a non-default behavior because the latter can simply be performed any old way whereas the former must be performed in such a way that it appears automatic, which is difficult to fake: automatic behavior aka habits take time to cultivate.) 

The second level (which comes after learning the rule and becoming aware that others expect one to adhere to it) is ignoring the rule or underperforming with respect to it because one's own undervaluation of adhering to the rule supersedes the social rewards that come with adherence *or* the "social rewards" aren't desirable (effuse gratitude and excess attention, for example).


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