# So am I an ISFP or ISTP?



## Vamenti (Apr 6, 2011)

Okay so this is my first post here :laughing: I’ve been reading this forum for quite a while now, and it seems the more I read, the more confused I become about my type. I used to test as INFP all the time, but I’ve always felt that this just didn’t really fit me. 

The last couple of weeks I’ve started to realize that I’m actually much more a S than an N, because I’m very aware of my surroundings. For example, when I’m in the canteen of my uni, I notice everything that’s going on. When someone comes in I automatically look this person in the eye, which can be quite annoying when it’s someone I sort of know. Also, sometimes it can be really useful to act as if you haven’t seen someone, but I really have to fake this, because I’m always very aware of where everyone is. There are more examples, but I am just quite confident about this one J so that would make me an ISFP.

When I first read the ISFP threads, I was so sure that I had finally found my type. I’m very reserved, I constantly gather information to then shift it through my value system, I like theories, but when they have no real application to real life I just don’t see the point in them etc. etc. Basically these points from PersonalityPage are very much me: 

_“ISFPs are extremely perceptive and aware of others. They constantly gather specific information about people, and seek to discover what it means. They are usually penetratingly accurate in their perceptions of others.”_

_“ISFPs are warm and sympathetic. They genuinely care about people, and are strongly service-oriented in their desire to please. They have an unusually deep well of caring for those who are close to them, and are likely to show their love through actions, rather than words.”_ I care very deeply for persons that are close to me, even though some don’t even know/realize they are close to me. This is because I find it really hard to show that I care for someone, I would never really say that to anyone. I sometimes write it down on a birthday card for my best friends, but then I still express it in a very awkward , confusing way as if I don’t take it too seriously. I indeed much rather show it through actions; when one of my friends asks me something to do for them/go somewhere I’ll definitely do it, no matter the situation I’m in. 



_“ISFPs have no desire to lead or control others, just as they have no desire to be led or controlled by others. They need space and time alone to evaluate the circumstances of their life against their value system, and are likely to respect other people's needs for the same.”_

_ “The ISFP is likely to not give themselves enough credit for the things which they do extremely well. Their strong value systems can lead them to be intensely perfectionist, and cause them to judge themselves with unnecessary harshness. “_

However, something I’ve been struggling with is this: “(…) and are uncomfortable with the idea of making decisions based strictly on logic.” I am definitely not a strictly logical person, but I do feel that I base much of my thoughts on the thought: “does this make sense or not?”. When learning something new, I always try to look for the logic in the problems, and I also very much enjoy logic puzzles etc. I looked up the “You know you’re a thinker when…-thread” and I found that I could identify with most things that were being said. I spend a lot of time thinking about my feelings and stuff, but mostly from a very analytical perspective. What could have caused this behaviour, why do I feel this way. I constantly try to come up with theories so that my behaviour makes sense to me. “Oh now I see.. I did this, because in the past I had trouble with this and this.. So it makes sense now that I still feel like this and that”. In a way it all has to make sense to me. However, when I try to express myself on the other hand, I say things in an extremely illogical manner. When teachers put me on the spot in class, I come up with the vaguest blur of sentences that make no sense at all. I first have to think about problems a long time, and only after 10 minutes or so I will come up with a sort of logical answer. 

Mmh but now I am checking out the Feeling thread, I also identify with a lot that’s being said there. I take things very personal, I can’t handle criticism at all, and I often assume I’m just a bother to others. I also identify with these things: _“ __You know you're a feeler (or sensor or both?) when you know there's trouble/tension in the room and you physically feel it so much your arm hairs (and other) rise and muscles everywhere (and I mean everywhere) get quite tense.”

“You know you are acting irrational and your brain keeps telling you to get over it, but you don't listen to it.”

“You know you're a feeler when seeing other people upset makes you feel uncomfortable.”_
‘_You can't act like something isn't wrong if there is something that's bothering you_.

“_You often think about a hypothetical situation where someone wrongs some of your loved ones and it makes you very angry and sad.”

_When I think of it, I think I identify more with the Feelers, but then again, I also feel that most Feelers take it a bit to the extreme and then I often think “Nevermind, can’t be damned about this at all”. And in general I feel that there are times when I don’t identify with the ‘peacefulness’ of the iSFP at all. There are times that i’m very cold and quite manipulative. I read up on the ISTP section, and I felt most at home there to be honest. I really identify with thing such as that I can be very lazy, unless I suddenly throw myself at something new, and I go for it 100%. I do this especially with sports, i’m also extremely competitive. I’m not sure if it’s true for all ISTP females, but i’m quite a tomboy. I like to play videogames, I hate very stereotypical girly settings, such as shopping, preparing for a party with make-up and all etc. However, I have to admit that this has slightly changed over the years (i’m 19 now), now i’m also concerned about guys etc. Furthermore, what also makes me think i’m more close to an ISTP is that when my best friend talks to me about her feelings for example, I truly truly care for her, but often times I find myself thinking how it all doesn’t make sense, and I just can’t be bothered with it. Of course I will never express this, but this is very much me. I can also be really mean to my sister, without even intending to be. Also, some people have told me that they when they first met me, they thought I would be very arrogant. 
Okay and the last thing i’ll add (because I have the feeling that this has become a very illogical story by now, and I don’t even want to bother you all with this ;p) isthat I don’t identify with the ISTP is because just like ISFP I focus very much on ‘the look’ of things. I can’t stand bad combinations and I pay a lot of attention to the way I dress. It’s not that I look very stylized (I don’t, because I want things to be comfortable most of all and I just can’t be bothered with the effort to wear proper make up and style my hair etc. ) but my clothes do have to match. Also, I am very much aware of furniture, paintings etc. They all have to hang in the right place etc. 

Sooo. In short, I have no clue whether i’m an ISTP or ISFP. It almost seems that in a way i’m both? But how can I find out what’s really me? It’s been bothering me for quite a while now ;p Hope this makes any sense! I'd really like to hear some of your thoughts


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## Mass.Hysteria (Feb 18, 2011)

I think the best discription for you would be:

ISXP

you have characterisitcs of both of them. 

Like me, i am an ISFP. 
But i hate it when my family gets emotional like it makes me feel angry but if its my friends then i try to help them though no one listens to me. When i hear of people's problems its sometimes a joke to me and i usually feel bad but yeaah...

I wish i was a full ISTP though.


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## Sketchy Cadet (Jan 8, 2011)

This article shows that your rational and irrational functions are two fold.

Check out the "Se-Ni" one.

Personalitypages is a great resource, but let's see if we can break it down: 
(first off- admirably it was tough to take in the sheer amount of information presented without breaking. I'm sorry if I ask anything redundantly..)

*T vs F*


> I take things very personal, I can&#8217t handle criticism at all, and I often assume I&#8217m just a bother to others.


Good place to start. Could you elaborate on this specific part?

Could you elaborate specifically on your logic? This is meant to be a generalized question.

*S vs N*
Are you a risk vs rewards" kind of person, or someone who goes and experiences new things and interprets them? If neither of these fit you, explain what you are then and why.

*J vs P*
By your descriptions, you seem like an irrational extroverted type to me. That simply means "P" opposed to "J", something you have previously determined.

Start with those and we'll go from there.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

A lot of people mistake T functions in MBTI for ability to think logically. They don't represent that. T and F essentially represent to which values you give precedence. Ti/Te types value truth and justice respectively and Fi/Fe types value sympathy and empathy. Now you can say "well all of these sound good and I value all of them" but in some situations you'd have to pick. Would you enforce justice or be merciful (sympathetic)? Would you rather tell the truth or be emotionally supportive (empathetic)? Notice that this has nothing to do with ability to think logically, or follow through with your thoughts, or be able to answer a question on the spot, or your IQ even. 

There are some articles linked in my signature about T vs F as well as Ti vs Fi that I recommend that you read through to understand their differences better.


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## Sketchy Cadet (Jan 8, 2011)

Rest assured-- I don't judge personalities based on abilities. I like to start with a _general context_ and delve in from there. Assuming T *or* F in of which itself (having the implication that you can only have one and not the other) would obviously be downright foolish; and yes, I heavily agree about the subject's personal "tenancies" in order to correctly judge a personality. I'm sorry about this misunderstanding of the intended implications-- perhaps I should first recover my sleeping patterns in order to write more concisely and approach it more objectively.



> Before I explain why, would you elaborate on this specific part?


There, in my esoteric sleep-talk, I was asking for elaboration. Since the OP hasn't posted yet, there is possibility of approaching this key area in a different, possibly different light. I once again apologize for publicly displaying conjecture immediately, that was quite foolish; after all, we're trying to find out more pertinent information without "contamination"... 



> Could you elaborate specifically on your logic? This is meant to be a generalized question.


The poster asked us to discern between ISFP or ISTP. I would like to see how the poster approaches this "logic" merely as an icebreaker of sorts, subject to further explination in later posts. I would then continue to ask questions in an attempt to slowly break them up to usable material, and then present some prevalent ideas. 

I'm sorry if my generalized approach offended you in any way. I respect your experience in this subject-matter, and I am not personally _trying_ to present myself as an expert or superior in understanding in any way whatsoever. You know what they say, "practice makes perfect," and this phrase truly paints my overall intention. In fact, out of indirect apprenticeship, I would appreciate seeing how others approach this, other than the ones who generally say "you sound more T than F"... I'd rather have them elaborate on _why_ and try to find deeper understanding on, coincidentally, _why_ they happen to have the personality marking that they would be suggested to have; as we both know, it goes into cognative functions, and there are multiple presented applications to cognative functions as well. Perhaps my current experimental algorithm is too flawed to continue, I will re-form it and attempt implementation at a later time.
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@Vamenti: Feel free to contine on elaborating, despite this digression. As you can see, there are diffrent accents to the approach on resolving the "What Type am I" charge-- the strongest one being your own. I wish you well on your newfound joruney of self-discovery.


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## Vamenti (Apr 6, 2011)

Thanks for all of your replies!


vel said:


> (...) Would you enforce justice or be merciful (sympathetic)? Would you rather tell the truth or be emotionally supportive (empathetic)?


Mh indeed hadn't thought of the difference between T and F in that way. I do find it very hard to answer such questions though. I'd _like _to think of myself as being more focussed on justice rather than merciness - there are definitely cases in which i'd find the truth more important that emotional support - however the same goes for the reverse. I'll have to look deeper into this, and I will take a look at your links (though I can only see them when I have 10 posts  )


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## SyndiCat (Oct 2, 2010)

ISFP - disorganized, timid, prone to discouragement, socially uncomfortable, does not like leadership, suggestible, not self confident, not aggressive, lower energy, fearful, anxious, easily distracted, prone to discontentment, guarded, not confrontational, prone to longing for a stabilizing relationship, can be overwhelmed by unpleasant feelings, easily disturbed, fears drawing attention to self, prone to confusion, private, second guesses self, prone to quitting, underachiever, fears rejection in relationships, emotionally moody, prone to sadness, dislikes change, indecisive, modest, doubting, prone to laziness

ISTP - hidden, private, has trouble describing feelings, not very affectionate, loner tendencies, lower energy, can be insensitive to the misfortunes of others, disorganized, messy, fears drawing attention to self, not comfortable in unfamiliar situations, avoidant, rather unemotional, does not like attention, more interested in intellectual pursuits than relationships or family, hermetic, not complimentary, dislikes leadership, more submissive then domineering


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## Vamenti (Apr 6, 2011)

And @ The CmdrOfficer, thanks for your reply as well  Althought it might be a generalized approach, I do like the idea of discussing and elaborating on my thoughts, so i'll try to give an answer to your questions:

"I take things very personal, I can’t handle criticism at all, and I often assume I’m just a bother to others". As for this, I wrote this because these are quite essential to my personality I think. Especially when interacting with authorities (such as coachs, trainers; people who I have to take advice from) I become very stubborn, and won't take anything from them at all. Even when someone says something as minor and positive as "Hey, you're not doing this correct, you should rather stand like this" this stubborness will come out (which they also immediately notice, some will behave very apologetic towards me afterwards (which makes me ashamed of my irrational behaviour)). However, I do take advice from people i'm interested in, and who are not "above me". Last week I went to a design workshop and I happily took in the advice the guys gave me on my drawings. 

The 'feeling like i'm a bother to others' is also quite essential. I think this stems from high school, where I was _very _afraid of being seen as boring. I thought everyone thought of me as the quiet, boring girl that incidentally hung out with some cool girls. The girls I hang out with were more outgoing, had good contacts with boys, went to parties etc. So when I joined them I always felt that other people really liked them, but tht I was the annoying "attachment" in a way. This has resulted in strong feeling whne interacting with people for the first time that they won't like me. That's when I become very quiet, and nervous almost - I won't be the relaxed person I usually am. Luckily i've got a great group of people around me now, who have made me feel really confident, so this thought of being a bother is gradually declining, though I think it will always be a part of me - especially in groups.

Then an answer to your question whether I could elaborate on my logic.. This is a hard one, because I have never really given this quality much thought. I will try to explain it though. What I meant is that most of the information that comes in, has to make sense to me. I analyze situations, how people behave, if something's broke, what's the best thing to do to it. I've never been in an emergency or anything, but I imagine myself being the person that will remain calm, because I would just analyze what would be best to do. Also, when in situations that feelings should rule, I often let my brain take over control by analyzing what I can do, and then manipulate the situation in a way. Mh I don't know how exactly pinpoint why I feel I am drawn towards logic and the rational, but - ironically - I just _feel _that I am. Blah it greatly annoys me that I can't epxlain this in a logical way, but anyway. While typing this I still think that I indeed might be more of a feeler than a thinker, just because I feel I am so illogical myself many of the times. 

Then "Are you a risk vs rewards" kind of person, or someone who goes and experiences new things and interprets them? If neither of these fit you, explain what you are then and why." 

I think I have a tendency towards the latter. I don't really think about the risk or reward of something, i'd rather just jump into something and then find out along the way in what way it benefits or disadvantages me. I think I prefer to first experience new things, before judging them as disadvantageous.

And as for J vs P, i'm indeed quite sure that i'm a P.

Hope these answers will help  and thanks again for your reply


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## TurquoiseSunset (Aug 12, 2010)

Check out this link too...

(Btw, I didn't read your post)


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## Sketchy Cadet (Jan 8, 2011)

That is quite astounding, actually. 

Well, thinking is merely the act of ideation and subsequent correlation (which is Jung's basic definition). There are quite a few different types of thinking that exist. 

But what healthy human uses only thinking in of which itself?

Feelings also exist, but they are hard to describe. Good word choice, they are _illogical_ in nature. As thinking is logical, feeling is illogical; a dichotomy of the rational functions. All we can understand about feelings (in the context of the F notation) is that they have to do with inner values. You use both, but you might be _typed_ as more of one than the other.

However, when it comes to the objective background or the subjective (inner) context, are you _rational_ or _sensational_? This might be in the realistic context, or one that deals with rather "abstract images" of sorts. 

From your post, I would classify that you contain: Se Ni (more so Se), With a xSxP notation. The article that Vel offers with "Ti vs Fi" should really help you from here. Once that's read, please, once again, elaborate.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

For me, the ISTP-or-ISFP decision came after recognizing the difference in their cognitive functions: 
Ti Se Ni Fe (ISTP) vs 
Fi Se Ni Te (ISFP)

The difference between ISFP and ISTP is the Ti-Fe vs Fi-Te part, which was more tricky for me too. What became helpful, and maybe it will help you out too, is this page: (Google "The MBTI 201 - Cognitive Functions") 

For me, if Fe or Te is my inferior function and that's where my stress and misunderstandings comes from, then I can see pretty easily that Fe is definitely my inferior and not Te -- doing cognitive functions tests, I always score high on Te and Fi and Fe are low. By chance, have you done a cognitive functions test before?


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## Vamenti (Apr 6, 2011)

thunder said:


> For me, the ISTP-or-ISFP decision came after recognizing the difference in their cognitive functions:
> Ti Se Ni Fe (ISTP) vs
> Fi Se Ni Te (ISFP)
> 
> ...


Thanks for your answer  I've only recently started looking into the cognitive functions, but I just checked out the Google Page that you suggested and it's indeed very helpful - so thanks for that!

I've also just done a Cognitive Functions test, and surprisingly these were the results:

extraverted Sensing (Se) ******************************** (32.2)
good useintroverted Sensing (Si) *********************** (23.1)
limited useextraverted Intuiting (Ne) *********************************** (35.9)
good useintroverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************************** (34.9)
good useextraverted Thinking (Te) ************************ (24.9)
average useintroverted Thinking (Ti) ***************************** (29)
average useextraverted Feeling (Fe) ************************* (25.1)
average useintroverted Feeling (Fi) ********************************** (34.1)
good use
That would make me an INFP...and that's what I usually test as, but I just really don't see myself as an N. 

Anyway, overall I get the feeling that I am an F, even though I feel that Fe is my inferior function as well.. And as for Te, the MBTI 201 describes it as: 
-following someone else’s thought process
-explaining through logic and fact
-empirical thought
-organizing
-planning

Planning and organizing are definitely not my strong points, but I do have the feeling that I can follow someone else's thought process quite well, and that even though I leave people more confused after I explain something to them, to me my ideas are very logical and factual. But perhaps that's just one of my personality traits that I feel i'm always right ;p

I'll have to think some more about these results, but again; thanks a lot


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

infp??????????????


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## Vamenti (Apr 6, 2011)

walking tourist said:


> infp??????????????


That's what the test results said  sort of surprised me as well (even though i'm used to test as INFP)


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## caramel_choctop (Sep 20, 2010)

Vamenti said:


> However, something I’ve been struggling with is this: “(…) and are uncomfortable with the idea of making decisions based strictly on logic.” I am definitely not a strictly logical person, but I do feel that I base much of my thoughts on the thought: “does this make sense or not?”. When learning something new, I always try to look for the logic in the problems, and I also very much enjoy logic puzzles etc. I looked up the “You know you’re a thinker when…-thread” and I found that I could identify with most things that were being said.


*shrug* Enjoying logic puzzles and such, and basing your decisions on logic, doesn’t mean you can’t be a Feeler. And I’m pretty sure a lot of people decide on “does it make sense or not?” – they just have different definitions of ‘sense’ sometimes.  
First of all, try looking at the cognitive functions (Fi vs. Ti). See which one you relate to _most_ - you might use both pretty much equally, but which one comes more naturally? 



Vamenti said:


> [/I]When I think of it, I think I identify more with the Feelers, but then again, I also feel that most Feelers take it a bit to the extreme and then I often think “Nevermind, can’t be damned about this at all”. And in general I feel that there are times when I don’t identify with the ‘peacefulness’ of the ISFP at all. There are times that i’m very cold and quite manipulative.


Ditto. All these “I love and adore people, I’m caring” sort of stereotypes are why I doubted I was an F at first. The “manipulative” bit I’m not sure of – I am selfish, but not manipulative – but I can certainly be cold.



Vamenti said:


> often times I find myself thinking how it all doesn’t make sense, and I just can’t be bothered with it.


That could be either Fi or Ti – “It just doesn’t make sense, and I can’t be bothered with it”. It depends on what I have to deal with, how much I care about the person etc.



Vamenti said:


> I can’t stand bad combinations and I pay a lot of attention to the way I dress. It’s not that I look very stylized (I don’t, because I want things to be comfortable most of all and I just can’t be bothered with the effort to wear proper make up and style my hair etc. ) but my clothes do have to match. Also, I am very much aware of furniture, paintings etc. They all have to hang in the right place etc.


All that is Se talking. ISFP and ISTP both have Se as their auxiliary. 

I’m leaning towards Fi for the very subjective reason that you don't give me T vibes. But you certainly use T a fair bit (I suspect Ti). More importantly, that part at the beginning about values is very Fi.


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