# A brief rant about NTs



## marr55 (Dec 24, 2013)

Please don't misunderstand, I generally like and get along really well with NTs, but I am so freaking tired of the emotionless robot act. It's so incredibly irritating. I know tons of NTs in person, and I know their personal lives, their dreams, the relationships. You guys have feelings. Your feelings directly effect the choices that you make every day. It's scaring me how much I want CAPS LOCK you all to death (and I'm trying really hard not curse). JUST STOP. Don't act like you don't get offended when someone insults you, makes fun of you, calls you logic BS, etc. I know it's not true. I would assume most people, especially NFs, know that it's true either. No human make choices based entirely on logic. Most people are in touch with their feelings. They may not know how to handle their emotions, or know what they mean, or why they feel them, BUT THEY ARE STILL THERE. Complete apathy is sign of SEVERE mental illness. Advertising that you don't have feelings does not make you seem smarter. It makes you a either a liar, or very very sick. Both of those TAKE AWAY from credibility not add too it. Even the petty insults I see thrown around, particularly with INTPs and INTJs (and often towards each other) come mostly from frustration, which is, YOU GUESSED IT, AN EMOTIONAL RESPONSE! What the hell is wrong with you people?
-sighs- rant over.
Thank you for reading. I just really needed to put this out there. Talk about whatever.


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## Damagedfinger (Oct 27, 2013)

Oh no problem, I had fun reading it.


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

How offended we will be determined by how emotionally close our relationship are with that person. If you're a random person on the internet spewing insults on us, we honestly don't care. If you are someone close, even a little insult is enough to upset us greatly. So we tend to retaliate to the latter than the former.


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## marr55 (Dec 24, 2013)

Yes XD thank you guys. I am aware how it works. I was just frustrated. Hence the title "rant."


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## Damagedfinger (Oct 27, 2013)

marr55 said:


> Yes XD thank you guys. I am aware how it works. I was just frustrated. Hence the title "rant."


So how does it work ?

I need to know myself.


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## marr55 (Dec 24, 2013)

Damagedfinger said:


> So how does it work ?
> 
> I need to know myself.


I was referring to the part about not placing much stock in the opinions of people who have yet to prove themselves to the NT in question. I am aware of that part. Unless you think that's inaccurate?


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## Damagedfinger (Oct 27, 2013)

marr55 said:


> I was referring to the part about not placing much stock in the opinions of people who have yet to prove themselves to the NT in question. I am aware of that part. Unless you think that's inaccurate?


Explain...if you would like to have a nice conversation with a NT.


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## marr55 (Dec 24, 2013)

Damagedfinger said:


> Explain...if you would like to have a nice conversation with a NT.


I was a bit too vague to really discuss that XD It would be a different process for different types, but my experience with ENTxs is limited, so I'll ignore them for the sake of the explanation. As Powerhouse stated (although I think this was more to do with emotional responses), it depends on how close the relationship with a person is before you decide how much weight to put in their opinions. As I currently understand it INTJs will judge a person's worse along with a person's character. Not really explaining that well, but for example my INTJ friend would judge a specific behavior very differently for two different people. I.E. If she were reading an essay/report by someone she has repeatedly disagreed with in the past she would likely be much more critical and skeptical of their work as opposed to someone whose judgement she trusts well. I guess it functions as a short cut for getting what she considers to be valid information. 

The process for an INTJ would be:
-Absorb Information
-Check Reliability of External Source(s) of the Information
-Assess Validity

I imagine for INTPs it would be:
-Absorb Information
-Check Information's Consistency with Internal systems 
-Assess Validity

I might be way off, but this is what I understand so far. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to both logical and emotional issues. Like say someone called and INTJ a/an [insert profanity here], if they didn't value the persons opinion and considered it an unreliable source they would probably discard the information and it would have little effect on them. If an INTP were called that they would check to see if it was inline with their internal logic and probably discard the statement unless it fits in with what they already believe.
Basically meaning that until someone has proven his/herself to be a reliable source of information through past expirence an INTJ will likely ignore their opinions. (Don't ask me how they determine who is reliable and who is not because I haven't thought about it). Where as an INTP would check with their own systems, which may also include they opinions of people the trust, ultimately achieving the same result. 

Te and Ti basically.


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## iemanja (Feb 5, 2012)

You need to get closer to NTs. When you're really close friends with them, they may not explicitly say if they're feeling hurt or sad, but they'll show it or have a moment. Those moments are beautiful in my opinion, because you see their humanity, and you see something so occasional 

I personally get annoyed when people get offended too much anyway. 
However ENTPs and INTJs show their emotions more easily, which I actually prefer.


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## marr55 (Dec 24, 2013)

iemanja said:


> You need to get closer to NTs. When you're really close friends with them, they may not explicitly say if they're feeling hurt or sad, but they'll show it or have a moment. Those moments are beautiful in my opinion, because you see their humanity, and you see something so occasional
> 
> I personally get annoyed when people get offended too much anyway.
> However ENTPs and INTJs show their emotions more easily, which I actually prefer.


I just meant that on this forum and other MBTI/Jungian forums NTs tend to embrace the stereotype that they don't have feelings at all. Actually I see this is other types too. I see a lot of discrimination based on MBTI. I mean I blame a lot of this on trolls and immature people who think they have to be their idea of the quintessential version of their type. MBTI is far from perfect, most people don't fit *perfectly* into a type description.


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## The Proof (Aug 5, 2009)

being a real NT and trying to do the feeling thing is like using the wrong hand to write


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## saturnne (Sep 8, 2009)

You're right that everyone has emotions. But at least for me, I don't feel the need to bother others with mine. I'm not saying people who share their emotions bother me, either.


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## iemanja (Feb 5, 2012)

marr55 said:


> I just meant that on this forum and other MBTI/Jungian forums NTs tend to embrace the stereotype that they don't have feelings at all. Actually I see this is other types too. I see a lot of discrimination based on MBTI. I mean I blame a lot of this on trolls and immature people who think they have to be their idea of the quintessential version of their type. MBTI is far from perfect, most people don't fit *perfectly* into a type description.


ohhh I see. I guess being online makes it easier to be a jerk maybe? Idk


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)

It's not so much not having emotions. Some things just aren't worth letting get under your skin.

Why should I care if some punk over the internet thinks about me or my opinions?


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## imagica (Jan 5, 2014)

What I've learned about NTs, since I have a handful in my life (specifically INTPs) is that if you want them to be emotionally open with you, you have to make it safe for them and be patient. If you force them to do so and are emotional about it, they can either shut down and be avoidant or say what they think you want to hear (basically another way of avoiding). That can end up blowing up in your face later on and it can make them feel pretty bad about lying about it. Thus, they're less likely to trust you later on to be honest.

If you want them to feel safe you must:
- make sure its ok to have the conversation. If they need space, give them that space to analyze how they're feeling. You could say "Hey, would you be willing to talk about x later?" 
- when you do talk come at them calmly and rationally, vs with tears, anger, and insults
- be understanding. Empathize with why they behave the way they do. "I understand that you're stressed right now..."
- be specific. You can't expect them to know what you need. That's just not the language they speak. As NFs we have the innate ability to notice how someone is acting and interpret how they're feeling. "I noticed how x behaved after y happened. That probably upsets x and I should do my best not to do y again." NTs just don't get that.
- so calmly, rationally, and explicitly state how you're feeling. Leave overt criticism out of it. "When you do x, it makes me feel y because z."
- I actually found it immensely helpful to write down all of my angry/emotional thoughts, then translate them into calm, rational, and specific statements. Maybe leave out a few things that are really unimportant and are just a result of being upset, such as bringing up past, settled conflicts. 

This may not be the case for every individual NT, other factors come into play including how close you are to them and how healthy they are. If its an INTX, chances are you need to really know them much better for them to be more open with you. This has worked for me in the past. But if you do this, and they open up, it's a 98% chance that whatever they said is from the heart. It may not always be what you want to hear, but you have to accept that. If you find yourself getting angry, give yourself space to avoid blowing up emotionally and creating tensions and removing trust, this can result in them being less likely to want to engage in these discussions in the future.

As far as what else not to do, anytime I've done any of the following its resulted in the NT exploding in anger, losing trust, avoiding me for days, etc.
- calling them names or criticizing them for "not getting it" or being too distant.
- disrespecting a need for space and forcing emotional conversations on the spot
- emotional blackmail. "If you really cared, then you'd...", threatening abandonment, etc. I've done this before to an INTP. I threatened to end the relationship if he didn't open up emotionally and give me the attention I needed. We didn't talk for days and from what I heard he was very depressed afterwards and dwelled on the incident, but my plan backfired and he did nothing to remedy the situation. Just don't do it. Seriously.
- come at them in tears or yelling or any overt emotional display. It scares them.
- be irrational. Think about what you want and if its a reasonable expectation. Stick to it.
- be vague, send mixed signals, or do something like give the silent treatment and expect them to understand why
- devalue their cognitive processes

I hope this provided some insight. It's no experts opinion, obviously, but its worked for me!


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## randomshoes (Dec 11, 2013)

I agree, people on this forum heavily play up the idea that they are robots, and it's annoying. It's like they're all pretending they have Aspergers except they think that's a good thing and it's it great how above it all they are. (This is hilarious to me because I know an ENFJ who actually has Aspergers). Being thinking doesn't mean you don't have emotions or have no capability to read the emotions of others, it means you aren't connected to your emotions or particularly in control of them. 

I do think the fact that they aren't easily hurt or offended by a lot of things that might hurt us is genuine, although obviously things DO hurt them. Also, this is particularly an INTJ & INTP thing, and they're just really private people. They're both introverts, and neither are comfortable with sharing emotion, INTP because of their inferior feeling and INTJ because Fi is very private, particularly in an introvert. None of that means it's reasonable for them to claim they have no emotions, however. I think it often comes from a fear of being seen as weak.


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## MindArtisan (Jan 8, 2014)

Revenge is a dish best served cold, dear.


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## MindArtisan (Jan 8, 2014)

The post by imagica is just brilliant! Exactly right. I just would like to add that many NTs when offended, don't grow hot with anger but grow cold which may lead to far more dangerous retaliation, not necessarily on the spot.


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

marr55 said:


> Talk about whatever.


i enjoyed this. and yeah, i agree with you that the i-feel-nothing-hur-hur pose is transparent to a degree that becomes irritating because it burdens one with sheer embarrassment for the poseur. big credibility killer, sure. 

but sometimes i think nt's just do it in a global manner where less abstract people do exactly the same thing, only in a more piecemeal case-by-case way. they'll deny having _specific_ emotions instead of pretending they have none at all - and also for the sake of preserving some kind of pose or self-image intact. that can annoy me as well. 

guess i'm just irritable.


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## FrozenOak (Jan 21, 2014)

Not every needs to express emotion. Some people just choose to be more reserved, especially depending on the circumstances. There's an appropriate time to express things like that.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Elvish Lives said:


> And you read into this statement that I think emotionality is the only


it's not really reading in when that's the clear meaning of the statement.
it's not like you said "moving away from the part of him I find easier to relate to" or even "moving away from a facet of his humanity".

eh, whatever. this is a silly semantics argument anyway. 

like you said, there's no reason for me to stop you from your NT prejudice if that really is what works for you in relationships. the NT gals will find folks who like them for what they are, everyone will live happily ever after, the end.


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## IncoherentBabbler (Oct 21, 2013)

I'd say the problem isn't the robotic sharade so much as people taking it too seriously. If you know it isn't legit, why are you getting all huffy? Don't take yourself, or your archtype, so seriously.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

IncoherentBabbler said:


> I'd say the problem isn't the robotic sharade so much as people taking it too seriously. If you know it isn't legit, why are you getting all huffy? Don't take yourself, or your archtype, so seriously.


not sure if this was addressed to me or to the thread in general?


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

Pelopra said:


> it's not really reading in when that's the clear meaning of the statement.
> it's not like you said "moving away from the part of him I find easier to relate to" or even "moving away from a facet of his humanity".
> 
> eh, whatever. this is a silly semantics argument anyway.
> ...


Yes, and you'll think what you want regardless what I say.


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## IncoherentBabbler (Oct 21, 2013)

Pelopra said:


> not sure if this was addressed to me or to the thread in general?


Sorry, I was responding to the OP. I thought I had quoted it in my post but apparently not.


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## yentipeee (Jun 19, 2013)

I can’t speak for all NTs, personally I have *Fe*elings, I’m just not ruled by them.

Think of hatred, bitterness, lynch-mobs and crimes of passion, all arising from emotions out of control.

“If you can keep your head when all about you
are losing theirs and blaming it on you . . .”


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## Elvish Lives (Nov 29, 2013)

IncoherentBabbler said:


> I'd say the problem isn't the robotic sharade so much as people taking it too seriously. If you know it isn't legit, why are you getting all huffy? Don't take yourself, or your archtype, so seriously.


You're getting a little huffy yourself.


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## TuesdaysChild (Jan 11, 2014)

Pelopra said:


> And yes, those are feelings-- but they're in response to you attacking my poor, innocent brain, not my poor, innocent heart.


This made me *actually* laugh out loud :laughing:

Cheers on that!


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## aHumanRenaisance (Nov 20, 2013)

I find T>F types downright adorable. Especially the women, because I know what's going on inside, and the way they so diligently repress all signs of emotion (except seriousness) is so darn cute and funny as h*ll lol

Makes me try harder to open them up, just a little. Not asking for miracles here, but just a wee bit little :kitteh:


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## stentorious_paroxysm (Apr 25, 2012)

I watched a retard and an old man engage in fisticuffs in a bowling alley last night. 

I am an NT.

I have feelings.

I laughed.


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## aHumanRenaisance (Nov 20, 2013)

/\ Now, Now, that's not right /\


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## Euclid (Mar 20, 2014)

The emotionless robot act is not an act. We do have emotions, just don't put them on display unnecessarily. The old dictum holds, to never show your enemy your weakness.


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## WillyT (Jul 22, 2013)

I certainly have emotions. I just choose to whom and where I display them.


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## Belladonne (Mar 22, 2014)

AlliG said:


> Meh, the whole world can't be ruled by emotion like NFs. It just can't. I even find too much emotion in others unbearable at times. I even confess to electing to leave the INFP Facebook group (after only three days) because 12,000+ members = too much emotion in my news feed. Everybody jumping on every little thing as if the world is just one dog pile away from Utopia. Nah, the world needs NTs just the way they are.


I came to this thread with my pitchfork out.

I confess, I am disappoint


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## TuesdaysChild (Jan 11, 2014)

Belladonne said:


> I came to this thread with my pitchfork out.
> 
> I confess, I am disappoint


Awwww shucks 

I've learned that the world needs balance. And rather than that balance being found within the individual, we are meant to balance *each other* out, but that takes understanding and acknowledging the need for the strengths in others. If the perfect balance was found solely within ourselves, then we would have little need for connection. Personally, I rely on and value the input of NTs, and I suspect or at least hope the feeling is mutual. We teach each other and we learn from each other. It's a beautiful thing


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## Belladonne (Mar 22, 2014)

AlliG said:


> Awwww shucks
> 
> I've learned that the world needs balance. And rather than that balance being found within the individual, we are meant to balance *each other* out, but that takes understanding and acknowledging the need for the strengths in others. If the perfect balance was found solely within ourselves, then we would have little need for connection. Personally, I rely on and value the input of NTs, and I suspect or at least hope the feeling is mutual. We teach each other and we learn from each other. It's a beautiful thing


What a beautifully written post, thank you ^_^

Yes, I do quite like NFs lol. My ideal guy to date would actually be an NF, and most of my female friends are them too  And I don't think it's possible to be all things, so you are right we do need connection. I used to have a "chameleon" personality and try to be everything, but it's just not possible.


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## stentorious_paroxysm (Apr 25, 2012)

Why does anyone do anything?


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## CodeGuru (May 25, 2012)

Well, we certainly do have emotions. That's definitely true.
As an INTJ, allow me to explain my reasoning as to why I choose what I do in regards to them. I will speak honestly and logically to explain it as objectively as I can.
I do not like exposing them. "Spilling my guts" just doesn't go right with me because it makes me too vulnerable. I know that if and when it does happen, I am certainly not thinking clearly and am not "myself". But in addition to the vulnerability, emotions are unreliable. They are volatile and inconsistent and are easy to manipulate. I often also find these same emotions get in the way of rational thought. Sometimes, voicing them out loud sounds like complete lunacy. I do not want to be a lunatic. I refuse to be a lunatic, and I will take any and all measures to change myself so that I will avoid that pit that can perpetuate unnecessary suffering simply because my feelings do not agree with the truth of reality. 
Putting all of these together, I perceive exposed emotions (be it myself or others) as a sign of weakness. A sign of an undeveloped person who cannot easily control themselves and think things through enough to be outwardly rationally sane. Likewise, exposing emotions myself would also be very embarrassing. Make no mistake though, we do have our frustrations. Many things bother us, but we do our best not to expose those emotions and keep them locked in, and instead acting on rationality where those emotions should go. Now, rationality dictates my emotions, rather than the other way around. I love rationality. Rationality is a tool that allows us to understand and discover and manipulate our surroundings. Things that do not make sense frustrate me. People who's emotions get in the way of their better thinking frustrate me even more, because it can be avoided if they "listened". I have had many bad experiences with people who's emotions dictated their thought. Those people believed me to be heartless, and I perceived them to be fools. Perhaps both are true.


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## anon1234 (May 15, 2013)

I agree. I am an INTJ (most likely) and I think the robot act is a bit childish. I think most of the NTs that disregard emotions are probably still young. The thinking side of the NT develops earlier than the feeling side. I find it amusing when people say things like emotions are irrelevant. Emotions exist! Either you acknowledge and consciously use your feeling side, or you can let it unconsciously manifest in most likely destructive ways. I think there are also a lot of very compassionate NTs as well. I think some just have to get over themselves a bit and acknowledge the value in every human being.


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## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

It seems I've had issues with NT's and ST's probably meaning more conflict with T vs. F. I think my F is too high many times and I become too emotional about things internally. I won't display it so an NT or ST may think things are okay. But if I feel you wronged me seriously and I cared about you then I'm going to try and screw you over. I'm terrible like that. I don't know if that's an INFJ thing or not, no idea. 

I've managed well enough with NT's I think because things tend to stay surface level. I've found it easier to identify people who may be easier for me to talk to as an INFJ and I try to hang around those people. People who don't fit that, especially those who appear to rarely have feelings on anything, I try to stay way from them.


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