# NFs are saps.



## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

vinndi said:


> Being overly attached to something or someone in an emotional manner? Placing too much weight on the emotional state of others? Being too concerned for whether or not someone is offended? Breaking down easily at the thought of injustice? Unable to stand potentially hurting someone?
> 
> These are extremes when it comes to emotions, but I guess that is what I mean by a sap, someone is emotionally involved in the human condition on an extreme level.
> 
> I tried to indicate what I mean by a sap in a few of my other posts, but maybe I wasn't as clear as I imagined.


That sounds more like a case of emotional dysfunction rather than this or that temperament, tbh...


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

vinndi said:


> Well, then. That sounds like a fairly offensive title, but I honestly don't mean to offend. Just hear what I have to say, alright?
> 
> I am an INFJ/P. (Yes, I am actually pretty borderline between J and P. It's weird, but that is just how it works out for me.) I have read various descriptions of both types and lurked around the forums for both as well (along with the forums involving my extroverted counterparts). Almost everywhere I look, people tend to go on about how "empathetic" we are and about our natural "compassion" for the world.
> 
> ...


Eh?

Yes I have empathy, compassion, sincerity, stuff like that but I have a sense of justice. I'm not going to cry over people who deserve the shit coming to them. 

Other than that, I have a semi vengeful side :tongue: If someone wanted to screw me over, I'd want to place a stick up his/her ass (metaphorically speaking) :crazy:


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Mmm...sap. Sap makes good maple syrup. So what's wrong with being sappy? :tongue:

Anyway, I do kinda fit your definition of sappy sometimes, but that's mainly because my self-esteem sucks. However, I'm not averse to people getting their just desserts. But even then, depending on the circumstances, I might still feel kinda sorry for the person. For instance, there was this one guy who picked on me throughout my school years. Some time after I started college, he got into a car accident. Thankfully, he lived. As much of a jerk as he was, he didn't deserve to go through that.


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## scarygirl (Aug 12, 2010)

vinndi said:


> Well, then. That sounds like a fairly offensive title, but I honestly don't mean to offend. Just hear what I have to say, alright?
> 
> I am an INFJ/P. (Yes, I am actually pretty borderline between J and P. It's weird, but that is just how it works out for me.) I have read various descriptions of both types and lurked around the forums for both as well (along with the forums involving my extroverted counterparts). Almost everywhere I look, people tend to go on about how "empathetic" we are and about our natural "compassion" for the world.
> 
> ...


We're lovely saps. If being a sap means being emotional, I'm up for being a sap. But don't confuse "being a sap", or "being emotional", with being someone...I don't know.
i don't see myself as a sap neither at times. I can sound very tough, and all that.
Just be yourself.
Maybe this MBTI thing means nothing after it all.


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## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

scarygirl said:


> We're lovely saps. If being a sap means being emotional, I'm up for being a sap. But don't confuse "being a sap", or "being emotional", with being someone...I don't know.
> i don't see myself as a sap neither at times. I can sound very tough, and all that.
> Just be yourself.
> Maybe this MBTI thing means nothing after it all.


Well, I would say there is difference between being a sap, being emotional, and being neurotic (extremely emotional).

Neurotic people are unstable.
Emotional people are all over the place with their feelings, but still stable in the sense they can function in their daily lives.
Saps are people who are... dare I say gushy with their emotions? 

I will admit it's a hard line to draw. Probably some of the people who posted on this thread might consider me sappy if they met me simply because I can be highly sensitive at times, but I guess being a sap to be is gushing over some sort of negative aspect of the human condition to a point of absolute needlessness.
Make sense?

Also, a sap would be the kind of person who could never hurt a fly, literally speaking of course. That's just... too much for me?


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

vinndi said:


> Also, a sap would be the kind of person who could never hurt a fly, literally speaking of course. That's just... too much for me?


Well, in that case, I'm not a sap after all. *swats fly*


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## Blue Heart (Aug 15, 2009)

vinndi said:


> Most INFJs actually quote the following in terms of forgiveness, grudges, revenge, etc: we forgive but we do not forget. Their point is that INFJs are actually highly forgiving people. They rarely if ever hold a grudge, but we nevertheless will remember what the action in questioned is..


Yep. I want to forgive, I don't like the feeling of holding onto a grudge and I am really not into revenge, but I don't forget. I can't forget. Perhaps it is because I/we are so sensitive, but I have to protect myself.


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## EternalBlackDragon (Feb 10, 2010)

vinndi said:


> Being overly attached to something or someone in an emotional manner? Placing too much weight on the emotional state of others? Being too concerned for whether or not someone is offended? Breaking down easily at the thought of injustice? Unable to stand potentially hurting someone?
> 
> These are extremes when it comes to emotions, but I guess that is what I mean by a sap, someone is emotionally involved in the human condition on an extreme level.
> 
> I tried to indicate what I mean by a sap in a few of my other posts, but maybe I wasn't as clear as I imagined.



You could call me a sap, but if I get angry it's a completely different story. I will help a person out if I see they need help but I am not overly involved in random people's lives. In terms of my friends I can always be there for them if they need to vent, advice, or just someone to talk to, and from what you say it seems that a "sap" is me in relation to my friends since they are practically family to me(mind you I am only there if I can be and I don't over extend myself to help them, they just have a higher priority). I mean I can't personally stand injustice but it doesn't constantly nag at me when there are other things I have to do. In terms of hurting someone I don't like to since we are all just trying to live our own lives (a struggle in itself I would sometimes say) I will not hurt someone for petty things but if they wear down my patience and actually anger me I can't say I won't try to not hurt them in any response I may have to them. I don't like to hold grudges since I have the policies of the INFJ's here (forgive but not completely forget).


As for hurting a fly, I would not fit a "sap" here since I have killed many a fly in my day. 

~EBD


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## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

EternalBlackDragon said:


> You could call me a sap, but if I get angry it's a completely different story. I will help a person out if I see they need help but I am not overly involved in random people's lives. In terms of my friends I can always be there for them if they need to vent, advice, or just someone to talk to, and from what you say it seems that a "sap" is me in relation to my friends since they are practically family to me(mind you I am only there if I can be and I don't over extend myself to help them, they just have a higher priority). I mean I can't personally stand injustice but it doesn't constantly nag at me when there are other things I have to do. In terms of hurting someone I don't like to since we are all just trying to live our own lives (a struggle in itself I would sometimes say) I will not hurt someone for petty things but if they wear down my patience and actually anger me I can't say I won't try to not hurt them in any response I may have to them. I don't like to hold grudges since I have the policies of the INFJ's here (forgive but not completely forget).
> 
> 
> As for hurting a fly, I would not fit a "sap" here since I have killed many a fly in my day.
> ...


I would also go to the end of the world for my friends. I mean... if that is what you are getting at because that is how I read part of your post. But, I think you missed the bit of about taking emotional attachments, etc to the *extreme*. Maybe some people are just overplaying this in the online community, but I see a lot of NFs who act like everyone else means the world to them. I am not against humanity or anything, but I am overly concerned with others lives. I help people out when I can, but I wouldn't go completely out of my way and I would never forget about my own needs as well.

Maybe I was rash when saying "Nfs are saps", but I really just wanted to see what others thought of NFs. I asked people to evaluate common NF behavior for themselves, but I should have known most people would want to defend their "sappy" actions. Though based upon what others have said, I would certainly be a sap myself. But based upon what I believe, I would be a moderate, low-grade sap.


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

vinndi said:


> Also, a sap would be the kind of person who could never hurt a fly, literally speaking of course. That's just... too much for me?


Well I would never hurt a fly, in fact I make it a point to save bugs who are drowning in my pool, the one exception I make is mosquitoes when they are attempting to drink my blood! But i feel guilty about swatting them :crazy:. I wouldn't describe myself as a sap though, I can be fairly reserved when it comes to displaying emotions.


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## kindaconfused (Apr 30, 2010)

vinndi said:


> I am an INFJ/P. (Yes, I am actually pretty borderline between J and P. It's weird, but that is just how it works out for me.) .


My wife is exactly the same way. So I know you already!


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## kindaconfused (Apr 30, 2010)

I am a huge sap. I feel the need to save every single art project my son creates in his school. I feel guilty throwing some away. 
This also goes for greeting cards. 
I would rent a storage unit if I had to.


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## Syrus Magistus (Nov 19, 2010)

Yeah, I guess it comes with the territory. Better to feel too much than nothing at all. Take my word for it.


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## vvv. (Oct 8, 2010)

o__o I'm not a sap. 
I can be sweet (on rare occasions) and emotional/passionate (on not so rare occasions), but never what I'd call sappy. 
Cards/flowers I could care less about, unless somehow the giver was able to employ the giving in a not-so-cliche fashion.
At work and with friends, I'm the last person to cry. In fact, I think I am the only girl who has not cried on account of my boss.
Movies _can_ get to me, but not those overly mushy types. More like Blood Diamond or... that last fight in Avatar the Last Airbender where Zuko is fighting his sister, Azula. cool: yeaaaaa)
That being said, I was a pretty sensitive child. I just have an indomitable will at times, and I've hardened up.


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## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

vvv. said:


> o__o I'm not a sap.
> I can be sweet (on rare occasions) and emotional/passionate (on not so rare occasions), but never what I'd call sappy.
> Cards/flowers I could care less about, unless somehow the giver was able to employ the giving in a not-so-cliche fashion.
> At work and with friends, I'm the last person to cry. In fact, I think I am the only girl who has not cried on account of my boss.
> ...


That actually sounds a bit like myself.


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## Seeker (Aug 12, 2010)

I think "sap" is a negative way of characterizing good traits. "Sap" to me means blind sentimentalism. "Kindness without honesty is sentimentalism." Seeing the true goodness in others is a great trait. And seeing the potential in others is also a great trait. Yes, we must be careful that we are taking an honest look. But if we do, then those who might call us "sappy" are being narrow-minded.


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## Memphisto (Jan 27, 2010)

I can be sappy at times....especially when I'm trying to express to somebody how/why I appreciate them or something they did.

But I am also a firm believe in what goes around comes around...and when somebody is an asshole and gets what they deserve I sit back and smirk....it feels good to see people who treat others badly get a taste of their own medicine.


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## GraphicallyAlex (Jul 23, 2010)

vinndi said:


> Oh, trust me. I am indeed questioning my type. Today, I went from labeling myself as INFJ to INFP to 'Unknown Personality'.
> 
> I think I definitely have a developed T function, whether it is more prevalent towards Ti or Te I have not made that distinction yet. I know for certain though that my F function dominates most of my thinking with a preference towards Fi (which would make me more INFP). So, yeah. I know I am NF. I could never be fully rational, and my thought process is too abstract to even be considered S.
> 
> But, I must laugh when you deem me 'healthy and balanced', but I only call those words into question when thinking about my neurotic tendencies. I am positive I could not be clinically diagnosed as a neurotic, but I definitely have some emotional instability (which I guess is more engineered towards myself and those very close to me).


you sure you're not INTJ? 
They have introverted feeling as a function...
All I know is that there is no way you are INFJ...
unless if you are an unhealthy one.


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## GraphicallyAlex (Jul 23, 2010)

well the OP did say that thoughts are welcome...

I believe that we most likely are saps, however we aren't stupid...
You can only take advantage of us for so long...
We only share our sappiness with those that can be trusted! XD


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## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

Alextllz said:


> you sure you're not INTJ?
> They have introverted feeling as a function...
> All I know is that there is no way you are INFJ...
> unless if you are an unhealthy one.


I am quite positive of this, and the simplest way I can explain it is by saying I am not an objective thinker. Though, I should tell you this thread is fairly old. I have found out new things about myself, MBTI, and cognitive functions since posting this thread. But despite all that I have learned, I am still on the fence with whether I am an INFJ or INFP (whose dominant function is introverted feeling... not that I know where that comment of yours come from). 
But, hey. Could explain to me why you don't think I am an INFJ? I am genuinely curious. I am rather confused about what my type is outside the two types that I have narrowed myself down to. Before you conclude anything however, you should know I do consider myself a fairly unhealthy individual. This is for the most part in regards to my unstable emotions and high anxiety levels, but maybe I am unhealthy for other reasons as well. 




Alextllz said:


> well the OP did say that thoughts are welcome...
> 
> I believe that we most likely are saps, however we aren't stupid...
> You can only take advantage of us for so long...
> We only share our sappiness with those that can be trusted! XD


Thoughts are welcomed. I appreciate different viewpoints and opinions. I am very open-minded. I just have the tendency to say certain things in order to get a discussion going for the sake of a discussion. Dump your thoughts on me. I will readily thank you for it. Don't confuse my dry writing style for cold personality. I am much warmer than that. This is just what the internet does to me. 

I don't think "saps" are necessarily stupid but rather unrealistic at times... though I am a highly sensitive individual myself. I cry during certain movies and over little conflicts in my life. It's not exactly ideal, but I don't consider myself a sap because I might simply think I am realistic.... eh but maybe I am in denial like previously mentioned. 




Seeker said:


> I think "sap" is a negative way of characterizing good traits. "Sap" to me means blind sentimentalism. "Kindness without honesty is sentimentalism." Seeing the true goodness in others is a great trait. And seeing the potential in others is also a great trait. Yes, we must be careful that we are taking an honest look. But if we do, then those who might call us "sappy" are being narrow-minded.


I think that is why I chose the word. I wanted people to challenge me in defense of the negative connotation, but I do think I agree with your definition of sap. Seeing the true goodness is a great trait, and it is probably a trait I possess as well. I tend to be accepting of others (of course up to the point they start acting immoral or whatever), but I guess I don't believe in forgiving to a point of being unrealistic. In other words, blindly forgiving.

But, I think most people failed to realize is that all I wanted to know is how YOU see yourself and other NFs. Based upon this thread, there are some people who would own up to any sappy title while others are more tough-nailed than that. So if anything, I would consider calling an NF a stereotype, and while stereotypes are usually based on fact they are never completely accurate.


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## GraphicallyAlex (Jul 23, 2010)

vinndi said:


> I am quite positive of this, and the simplest way I can explain it is by saying I am not an objective thinker. Though, I should tell you this thread is fairly old. I have found out new things about myself, MBTI, and cognitive functions since posting this thread. But despite all that I have learned, I am still on the fence with whether I am an INFJ or INFP (whose dominant function is introverted feeling... not that I know where that comment of yours come from).
> But, hey. Could explain to me why you don't think I am an INFJ? I am genuinely curious. I am rather confused about what my type is outside the two types that I have narrowed myself down to. Before you conclude anything however, you should know I do consider myself a fairly unhealthy individual. This is for the most part in regards to my unstable emotions and high anxiety levels, but maybe I am unhealthy for other reasons as well.
> 
> 
> ...


When you a unhealthy INXJ... It becomes even harder to figure it out. I think you are INTJ because they have introverted feeling as a tetieriary (i have no idea how to spell it or even if thats the word...) function. but lets get the psychoanalysis started!
are you more seen as "selfish" or "Critical"?
and do you care more about what other people think or what other people feel? 
(I realize that if you are an unhealthy inxj you supossedly wont care either way but you should know i think...?) 

I think I am realistic im just not sensible at all... 
And crying during movies and other "sappy" things is cheesy but highly entertaining...


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## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

Alextllz said:


> When you a unhealthy INXJ... It becomes even harder to figure it out. I think you are INTJ because they have introverted feeling as a tetieriary (i have no idea how to spell it or even if thats the word...) function. but lets get the psychoanalysis started!
> are you more seen as "selfish" or "Critical"?
> and do you care more about what other people think or what other people feel?
> (I realize that if you are an unhealthy inxj you supossedly wont care either way but you should know i think...?)
> ...


I am guessing you don't think I could possibly be INFP then? You seemed focused on seeing if I am INTJ versus INFJ, and as I said INFP has Fi as their dominant function, so if I displaying that I might just be INFP. 
And, errh... I don't actually think I am much more unhealthy than the average person, so maybe you shouldn't try to factor that in. But, here I go....
I am most definitely seen as more critical than selfish. I care equally about what people think and feel, or at least in a casual setting when I am not thinking about MBTI, cognitive functions, or other things related to psychology, I don't actually differentiate between the two. But I guess, I value people know the 'right' thing as much as value them feeling good. 


Aren't realistic and sensible about the same thing?


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## vvv. (Oct 8, 2010)

vinndi said:


> That actually sounds a bit like myself.


If it makes you feel better, I often feel like I border close to INFJ myself.
However, I identity a lot more with the with the dominant and auxiliary functions of the INFP (Fi and Ne) than the INFJ.


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## eunoia (Nov 19, 2010)

I am sappy in some ways and not in others. I am very nostalgic. Very sentimental. I cry during movies. I easily cry about some things in general when I'm in that certain mood, worked up about something, all alone, deep in thought. I do care about offending people, mostly because I don't like being misunderstood (usually I don't mean to offend). I don't like disappointing people or myself. I am extremely sensitive to how the public VIEWS ME and am very concerned about the feelings of people I CARE about. Note how I phrased that sentence; I care for different reasons depending on how well I know them. I am also very forgiving in general and try to place myself in other people's shoes, which I find to be reasonable, though others might be more harsh.

However, if I barely know someone, I feel bad to say, I don't care too much about their misfortunes. I act like I care and I understand that it sucks, but I'm not all that broken up about it. I really have to put a lot of energy to care--visualizing and imagining that in my own life--but it's really too much effort that I just fake it. I don't care about their mom, or what they are doing for Christmas. I'm not big on caring about that sort of chit chat--I don't share those things with other people because I figure "why would they care?" I do LOVE to solve problems though, if they have problems. I get more interested if they need advice rather than support. 

Once I get to know them better and consider them a friend, I begin to care more if something bad happened, or I am more interested in their daily life. Initially though..not too affected! It's like I need good character development in order to be affected. In terms of social injustices, I'm not torn up about it. I take interest--but more of an intellectual, "this is not how it should be," interest. I am more likely to feel pissed than cry or something. 

I guess I am almost more emotionally susceptible to a situation if it is more dramatized. For example, I feel more affected by something if I saw visuals of people with dramatic music than just hearing about it. That's probably true with a lot of people, though, and that's why media is so dramatic.

I also can be vengeful. I never think physical harm on someone, but if someone has been an emotionally horrible person to me or my friends, I am pissed and secretly (or not so secretly, depending on the degree of horribleness) wish some sort of emotional catastophe to occur. I would never do something horrible myself though because it just doesn't seem morally correct to me. I also am not very outward with any of my sappiness. I, as well, can be sarcastic, and my humor is often not politically correct. If I offend someone I feel bad though, because, again, I don't like being misunderstood and I hate that they took what I said as ill-intentioned. I also feel irritated because I wish people would be less sensitive. Cognitive dissonance right there!

I don't know, in general, I'm a very balanced person, so I don't get all worked up about things unless it's personal or involving someone close to me.

Anyway, I'm definitely more sappy than my friends (mostly NT's), but every now and then when I read other INFJ posts I feel like a horrible person! Other than not being as 'sappy' as some INFJ's, I 100% feel INFJ in every other way.


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## goastfarmer (Oct 20, 2010)

eunoia said:


> I don't know, in general, I'm a very balanced person, so I don't get all worked up about things unless it's personal or involving someone close to me.


Ah. Now that sounds like me. I guess I am a sap in denial.


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## eunoia (Nov 19, 2010)

vinndi said:


> Ah. Now that sounds like me. I guess I am a sap in denial.


Come be an INFJ


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