# NF: Not knowing what to talk about....



## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

know what I am talking about?


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Ok higher, lets talk about it.

:wink:


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## roxtehproxy (Sep 9, 2009)

Happens all the time...


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## Zygomorphic (Nov 19, 2009)

Now why would you want to talk about that?


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

NatalieAnne said:


> Ok higher, lets talk about it.
> 
> :wink:





Zygomorphic said:


> Now why would you want to talk about that?


I love this thread of jokes . 

Well....people often come up to me out of curiosity and try to become friends and what not. So I am flattered and all....but I don't know what to talk about.....and I don't want to give up my sense of self to become something I am not in order to please them....so we just end up standing there awkwardly until eventually they loose interest all together. I dunno...what do you think? Am I doing something wrong by not saying anything? Sometimes I feel blank headed or even unable to concentrate on subject matter.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

thehigher said:


> I love this thread of jokes .
> 
> Well....people often come up to me out of curiosity and try to become friends and what not. So I am flattered and all....but I don't know what to talk about.....and I don't want to give up my sense of self to become something I am not in order to please them....so we just end up standing there awkwardly until eventually they loose interest all together. I dunno...what do you think? Am I doing something wrong by not saying anything? Sometimes I feel blank headed or even unable to concentrate on subject matter.





I was actually talking about this with a good nf friend the other day. I experience it myself to a slight degree, and I more or less understand where it comes from in my own experience.
You have a good understanding of cognitive functions, can you see any correlation between specific functions and this 'phenomena'?

You talk about not wanting to please the other person, and not losing your sense of self. That's a good start. How does your 'self' behave when you interact with others?

I don't think there is anything technically wrong about not saying anything. I reckon it's a fairly common thing. The only problem is when it starts really impacting on interactions and how it may be interpreted by others (i.e. the losing interest)


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

NatalieAnne said:


> I was actually talking about this with a good nf friend the other day. I experience it myself to a slight degree, and I more or less understand where it comes from in my own experience.
> You have a good understanding of cognitive functions, can you see any correlation between specific functions and this 'phenomena'?
> 
> You talk about not wanting to please the other person, and not losing your sense of self. That's a good start. How does your 'self' behave when you interact with others?
> ...


Well ...I mean it seems as if I should be fine talking....I mean look at enfps....they are basically talkative infp's. But still....they are enthusiastic...and the enthusiasm is actually a HUGE part of the conversation.....not so much WHAT you talk about ....but HOW you talk about it. 

Being me....is being more mellow...introverted...not much enthusiasm or energy going on...and so I suppose that can kill it. But again...I always question what exactly I am. 

I dunno really. Kinda confusing myself. 

What are your experiences with it?


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## Deja Vu (Dec 26, 2009)

I think you are right about ENFP being talkative INFP. 

At least I hope you are. That would settle my own demons on the subject of _what_ I am...

Anyway. As an ENFP (tentatively :tongue I would suggest not focusing on the *how, *or *what, *but the why. Use those feelings, that intuition, and go at it - ask questions, satisfy your curiosity - and dig in on the person, or ask questions. Curiosity is something all people can agree on, and questions pull out of people more subjects - while at the same time showing your interest in the other person in a specific something.

Now, as an example, lets point at this girl name Natalie. Every few days I go to PEETs Cofeehouse. She is a girl that works there - cute. I wanted to work there too. Charm is the word of the game - and I used it. First thing I noticed was her ear rings - gauges. After presenting myself for a possible interview, I complimented her on them. Then went on a small talk about how was it getting them, why - and just showing how curious and interested I was.

Since then she has taken a bit of a liking to me. Even though I didn't get the job she cared if I did. She also cares about what I write when I bring my lap top in there. Basically asked me out on a date (in a very passive, round-about way) and we are cool. All because of my curiosity. INFP and ENFP aren't too different when it comes to those curios sensors. We see things, they boggle our minds, and we wonder. 

Wonder a loud in these conversations and you will always have something to talk about. Don't worry if it sounds like a dumb questions, or a spacey comment - It's intriguing. Awkward silence is fun, but never better than awkward words. I mean, they must have noticed something *cool* about you to come up to you.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Idris, Natalie's are always cool chicks :tongue:



thehigher said:


> Well ...I mean it seems as if I should be fine talking....I mean look at enfps....they are basically talkative infp's. But still....they are enthusiastic...and the enthusiasm is actually a HUGE part of the conversation.....not so much WHAT you talk about ....but HOW you talk about it.
> 
> Being me....is being more mellow...introverted...not much enthusiasm or energy going on...and so I suppose that can kill it. But again...I always question what exactly I am.
> 
> ...


I think if you do some more probing you can find out what all this confusion is about.

I find how mbti correlates with interaction styles to be really interesting... it's why I come here, for the most part. I find how people communicate to be really fascinating.. anyway... 

In my experience... 

Infp's supposedly desire to integrate with others. I identify with that very much so. 
I'll be in a conversation, and my intuition will run wild. I am constantly reading into everything. I do it naturally and partly because, I compulsively interpret things and also, I hate to admit it, but I am very much a people pleaser and always desire to meet every other person's needs. So sometimes I let the silence and breaks in conversation come up, because in those moments I am not -thinking- about anything- I'm sheerly focussed on intuiting everything that's going on and how that person is reacting. We could be talking about.. something I loved right, but i'm too busy reading and responding to their emotional cues rather than what they are actually saying. the conversation will land back in my court, and i'll think 'fuck, yeah that's right, I exist!' and not have anything to say. It doesn't help being an enneagram 9. I know who I am (which is many different people haha), but I self efface. I lose myself in others, so I can certainly see where you were coming from before. The self effacing is a combination of a defense mechanism, and something that's naturally a part of who I am. 

The infp's interaction style according to Berens (pressuming there is truth in the theory), is meant to be the 'behind the scenes' style. It seeks, asks questions.. clarifies, defines.. it wants to encourage merging/unity foremost and approaches coming to ones own thoughts during the topic secondly. Also our stress point is that we shut down and freeze. I can certainly relate to that.

Each of Berens 4 interation style types that correlate with mbti, supposedly influence others, define relationships, and have different a different focus when interacting. 
I can get hyped up about things, like right now i've typed far too much already (that's the 'how') and often talk excitedly- the how, I believe is important too, because it engages people in the conversation. It is a way of verbally connecting. But that 'intensity' is more in the league of other interaction styles that you see with I dunno, the 'get things going' (enthusiastic and involving) style i.e. the entp's and enfp's. I'm usually pretty mellow as well, apart from... certain occassions.. cough.. it's just our stylez  therein lies the beauty of conversation. 

The other types who share the 'behind the scenes' style are isfp's, intp's and isfj's. All introverts.. 

I tend to get on well with enthusiastic types (enfps, entps) because although they have a completely different interaction style, we are similar in that we seek and want to draw things out. I also get on well with 'chart the court' types like infjs.. very naturally. 

I don't even know where I'm going with this. It's 3am here :\


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## babblingbrook (Aug 10, 2009)

Talking about myself doesn't bring anything new to to the table, at least not for me. Hearing and getting lost in other peoples stories is much more interesting and inspirational. So most of the time I ask someone else about something I am curious about and then exchange my experiences and opinion on the topic. When I'm with other people I tend to focus on them, not myself. I'm already having conversations with myself in my mind when I'm alone.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

NatalieAnne said:


> Idris, Natalie's are always cool chicks :tongue:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That was pretty helpful. I think part of the problem may be my past relationships. I've been kind of conditioned to act a certain way....kind of stiff.....distant.....and purely interested in ... knowledge. So perhaps I need to chill out and go back to the good ol days.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

babblingbrook said:


> Talking about myself doesn't bring anything new to to the table, at least not for me. Hearing and getting lost in other peoples stories is much more interesting and inspirational. So most of the time I ask someone else about something I am curious about and then exchange my experiences and opinion on the topic. When I'm with other people I tend to focus on them, not myself. I'm already having conversations with myself in my mind when I'm alone.


Yup, there's the seeking and drawing forth out of the _other_ person, in action right there. I find talking about myself, difficult too.



thehigher said:


> That was pretty helpful. I think part of the problem may be my past relationships. I've been kind of conditioned to act a certain way....kind of stiff.....distant.....and purely interested in ... knowledge. So perhaps I need to chill out and go back to the good ol days.


Glad to help. Yeah, interaction styles usually stay with someone for life, but are responsive... so past relationships can play a role in how it is shaped in the future.. 

You mentioned enfp's before. We are similar in a few ways and differ in how we define relationships. They reach out, and we reach in. And the big thing is, we are focussed on controlling the outcome, just like 'in charge' types (enfj, estj, estp, entj) whereas the doers and chart the course style (enfps, infjs) are focussed on how the conversation moves to an outcome. 

See there..^ it's control of interaction vs movement of interaction. Focus on movement = expressive and focus on control = outcome focussed. 

This is how I've seen it be described

"BtS types sometimes control the information flow in order to reach the desired outcome. I have a strong interest in getting to a particular place, regardless of how we get there. I may often be that person that makes you anxious, the one who seems quiet and isn't tossing around ideas. But this is because I already have in mind what is best and my main interest is in getting us to that place. I may have a problem "checking out" of the process until I feel a place where I can step in and get us to where I think we should go.
So an example: I say to my family "we should go out to dinner" because it's Sunday night and I'm bored and there's money and we always have a good time when we go out. If they start tossing about ideas as to where we go, I typically say nothing at all. If someone wants me to "get involved" or share my opinion, I often feel like my mind is blank because I don't _have _an opinion beyond "let's go to dinner". I'll mainly step in if there is some conflict. In fact, I admit that I often feel that the more ideas are tossed about, the more likely there is to be conflict, and conflict gets in the way of reaching the goal. 

So when I talk about integrating viewpoints, that's the way to get to the end as far as I'm concerned. It's a way I would prefer over just telling everybody what we should do (like an in-charge type might do). For me, integration is about the END"

Can you relate to that at all? and yeah, relaxing is a good way to go :laughing:

I think the 'behind the scenes' style of communicating is awesome, but yeah... it does have it's downers. I guess being around expressive types can really help.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

This problem plagues my life. "Tongue-tied and tied to the tongue" :crazy:



idris said:


> I think you are right about ENFP being talkative INFP.
> 
> At least I hope you are. That would settle my own demons on the subject of _what_ I am...
> 
> ...


The curiosity and observational commentary works for me when:

1) I am not intimidated by someone. My mind goes blank otherwise....talking to a cute guy often makes my mind paralyzed....

2) I don't feel like I am prying. Sometimes I have the unfounded feeling that curiosity will be intrusive, but it's not rooted in reality. I have a sense of embarrassment that confuses even me :crazy:

I pretty much just have to get over the weird feeling of embarrassment and the involuntary freeze-ups. I suppose those stem from insecurity, but it's also my detachment from being "in the moment" and used to being in my own head.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

NatalieAnne said:


> Yup, there's the seeking and drawing forth out of the _other_ person, in action right there. I find talking about myself, difficult too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea exactly. I actually just got back from dinner with my family and that's exactly what happened. You're good. 

And yea I have noticed a lot of differences between The ExxPs/IxxJs or perceiving functions as their first function vs. ExxJs and IxxPs having a judging function as their first function. 

My enfp friend and I were working together over the summer (we were both making burgers). He was like.... making me really nervous as he ran frantically made half assed burgers and told me what to do. I was was standing back and being quiet but still pulling the estj thing to make sure things were under control and I was planning how to handle the situation. I told him to calm down and then work at one station at a time. He got offended and blah blah blah

but the point is...the different ways we handled a stressful situation. He would tell me..."dude you gotta be productive". I was thinking "dude you gotta calm down and figure out the most efficient way to handle this stressful situation" 

so yea. Neither one is correct obviously but this could play into conversation and all that also. Like you said...I want to establish an outcome first. The outcome I want is connection....but ....really it gets tiring waiting around waiting for the outcome to pop up. I gotta...be productive lol. I gotta get out there and be anxious and just make the connections (Ne). But yea...I dunno why I am paraphrasing what you just said.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

OrangeAppled said:


> This problem plagues my life. "Tongue-tied and tied to the tongue" :crazy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yep. me too. except I don't have problems talking to cute guys xD


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## Deja Vu (Dec 26, 2009)

OrangeAppled said:


> This problem plagues my life. "Tongue-tied and tied to the tongue" :crazy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm always in my head too. Swirling around things - and when I see something it just makes my mind go rollercoaster status. But when I talk, the rollercoaster moves a lot slower. So I try to relax and ask a question. 

People drop clues in their answers. Like I was talking to this older lady at the Retirement Home after stumbling onto a piano in the lunch room area. Sat down, played some keys, and she said "Well you play more notes than I do." 

And the clue is that she plays music. I asked her something to the affect about how artistic she was. Come to find out she used to be a teacher at University of Kentucky who painted. Now at her old age she can't remember how to paint. It's sad, but I thought it best to try and encourage her back into trying it. Plan to get her a small canvas so she can get back into it.

Anyway, point is - that a simple question can open someone up a bit. A word or two can turn into another question, a compliment, and the ball just starts rolling. From there, just sit back, relax, watch the person talk about themselves. I think most people at a certain point in the conversation go on auto-pilot. There is no thinking involved anymore in the middle of a *real *conversation.

But I've definitely been in those _awkward_ conversation with pretty girls where I just can't do anything but think. Then I start forcing what I'm saying and I look like a total idiot. Its happened. But the key is to relax. If you relax, breathe, keep that heart rate tempered - everything will flow so easy, naturall and it'll be fun.


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## Rustang (Dec 31, 2009)

If you want to talk to them , just ask them 20 questions?!

I'm an "I" but I love to talk. I'm not a zestful story teller, but am usually just asking away.

Don't feel forced to do something you don't want to; ie. making them and you comfortable, but if want to get to know them, asking questions is really easy.


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## FiNe SiTe (Dec 11, 2009)

thehigher said:


> Well....people often come up to me out of curiosity and try to become friends and what not. So I am flattered and all....but I don't know what to talk about.....and I don't want to give up my sense of self to become something I am not in order to please them....so we just end up standing there awkwardly until eventually they loose interest all together. I dunno...what do you think? Am I doing something wrong by not saying anything? Sometimes I feel blank headed or even unable to concentrate on subject matter.


 

I get what your saying about blank headedness *BUT*

Man..*DON'T *do that :crazy: my INFP friend does it all the time, i call to talk too him either because im bored or just wanna talk to him, and theres always an awkward silence.

When i talk to him i feel like im an ENFP because im the only one being enthusiastic.

But i keep trying, because when i finally typed him as a INFP i went YES! someone who might understand me. Or is that a bad thing to keep trying? :crazy:
Anything i should do to bring out a decent conversation? :wink:


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## dumtacemus (Dec 2, 2009)

FiNe SiTe said:


> Anything i should do to bring out a decent conversation? :wink:


Don't let him know that the awkard silence bothers you. If I feel that the other person doesn't mind the silence, I'm less inclined to actually be silent (out of awkwardness, at least). It's kind of ironic.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Rustang said:


> If you want to talk to them , just ask them 20 questions?!
> 
> I'm an "I" but I love to talk. I'm not a zestful story teller, but am usually just asking away.
> 
> Don't feel forced to do something you don't want to; ie. making them and you comfortable, but if want to get to know them, asking questions is really easy.


Sometimes that's the problem.. because generally infps seek to 'draw out' and are very focussed on other people (i.e. ask too many questions). Well it can be a problem for me anyway :wink:


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