# A Sociopath vs a Psycho



## floatingpoint (Dec 30, 2015)

Occams Chainsaw said:


> Incorrect (kinda) - a distinction is made. Sociopathy, according to the DSM V, is a defunct term for Antisocial Personality Disorder, like you note, and under "Alternative DSM-5 Model for Personality Disorders", there is a provision made within ASPD for 'with psychopathic features', described as characterised by "a lack of anxiety or fear and by a bold interpersonal style that may mask maladaptive behaviors (e.g., fraudulence)". Low levels of withdrawal and high levels of attention-seeking combined with low anxiety are associated with "social potency" and "stress immunity" in psychopathy.


Great explanation, more in depth than my actual class! Thanks


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## Occams Chainsaw (Jan 7, 2015)

floatingpoint said:


> Great explanation, more in depth than my actual class! Thanks


Mhmm. Like I said, there is a cluster of threads hanging about somewhere by Drunk Parrot whom I mentioned in the post previous to your last one (being quoted). In his created threads, Part III in particular has some discussion you might find interesting if this is a subject you're into. Mostly just hobbyists-- if you can call psychopathy a hobby, that is :laughing:


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

MisterPerfect said:


> Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated.


GAD is a comorbidity of some with ASPD, but not all of them.




MisterPerfect said:


> They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage.


Only some. 



MisterPerfect said:


> They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long.


Some sociopaths are doctors, lawyers, professors, and leaders of state. 




MisterPerfect said:


> Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules.


All attachments are superficial for them. 



MisterPerfect said:


> In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed.


Many sociopaths are very adept at utilizing the mask of sanity, to blend in with people that are normal.



MisterPerfect said:


> Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.


Many sociopaths get away with their crimes. There are tons of cold cases of serial killings and rapes. Note: Not all sociopaths are serial killers or rapists.



MisterPerfect said:


> Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities.


Sociopath and psychopath are interchangeable terms. There are subtypes of sociopathy, but these are unrecognized in the DSM-V.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Caged Within said:


> GAD is a comorbidity of some with ASPD, but not all of them.
> 
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> ...


Yes, why I said the exact meaning of Sociopath vs Psychopath confuses a lot of people. Originally though the distiction was Sociopath based on enviorment vs Psychopath which was based on genetic factors. I know they are used interchangably. For this however I was using the distiction.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Occams Chainsaw said:


> @MisterPerfect
> 
> @Drunk Parrot has a couple of thoughts on psychopathy and a thread hosting a wealth of ideas, debate, discussion, etc. If you're interested, I think AsPD, NPD and others are mentioned, along with psychopathy as a separate (academic) construct (since it isn't officially a 'disorder').


That has nothing to do with Batman though. I wouldnt want to hijack his thread. This thread is auctually about the batman characters.


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

MisterPerfect said:


> Yes, why I said the exact meaning of Sociopath vs Psychopath confuses a lot of people. Originally though the distiction was Sociopath based on enviorment vs Psychopath which was based on genetic factors. I know they are used interchangably. For this however I was using the distiction.


There is no point in pointing out a distinction, when the terms are interchangeable. Also, ASPD has a moderate concordance rate in relation to it, pointing to some of it being genetic.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Caged Within said:


> There is no point in pointing out a distinction, when the terms are interchangeable. Also, ASPD has a moderate concordance rate in relation to it, pointing to some of it being genetic.


Yes there is. If you dont get it you dont have to participate.


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

MisterPerfect said:


> Yes there is. If you dont get it you dont have to participate.


The terms are interchangeable, and there is no purely genetic or environmental cause for ASPD.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Caged Within said:


> The terms are interchangeable, and there is no purely genetic or environmental cause for ASPD.


Again if you dont like it that was the entire piont, so get off the thread if you dont want to participate.


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

MisterPerfect said:


> Again if you dont like it that was the entire piont, so get off the thread if you dont want to participate.


If you wish to misuse terms, then ok.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Caged Within said:


> If you wish to misuse terms, then ok.


I already explained I was going by the distiction and already mentioned that they have been used interchangably.


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## Occams Chainsaw (Jan 7, 2015)

Caged Within said:


> The terms are interchangeable. There are subtypes of sociopathy, but these are unrecognized in the DSM-V.


Do you then disagree with my argument against this earlier in the thread, quoting DSM: 5, and if so on what basis? 



Occams Chainsaw said:


> Incorrect (kinda) - a distinction is made. Sociopathy, according to the DSM V, is a defunct term for Antisocial Personality Disorder, like you note, and under "Alternative DSM-5 Model for Personality Disorders", there is a provision made within ASPD for 'with psychopathic features', described as characterised by "a lack of anxiety or fear and by a bold interpersonal style that may mask maladaptive behaviors (e.g., fraudulence)". Low levels of withdrawal and high levels of attention-seeking combined with low anxiety are associated with "social potency" and "stress immunity" in psychopathy.


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

Occams Chainsaw said:


> Do you then disagree with my argument against this earlier in the thread, quoting DSM: 5, and if so on what basis?


Can you cite the DSM-V directly?


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## Occams Chainsaw (Jan 7, 2015)

Caged Within said:


> Can you cite the DSM-V directly?


This seems unfair. I clearly used quotations and you just rambled off without anything of the sort.
Very well; I'll get around to it.

But note: The numbering convention was changed to 5 earlier. I accidentally used a V (roman) instead of 5 (arabic) because before edition 5 that was the convention. This was my only mistake.


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## Psychophant (Nov 29, 2013)

It's my understanding that the distinction is mostly made by those personally interested in antisocial traits and the genetic/neurological causes for them (so researchers..). If that's the case, then I'm not sure it's all that useful to cite textbook terminology, especially considering that most diagnostic materials are primarily concerned with behavioral patterns and the most concerning pathological features of the disorders overlap heavily.

Also, anyone who claims that sociopathy is a result of _only_ environmental forces is certainly mistaken, though I'm familiar with the epigenetic theories circulating in the other thread.


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## Occams Chainsaw (Jan 7, 2015)

@Caged Within



DSM-5 said:


> Specify if:
> With psychopathic features.
> Specifiers. A distinct variant often termed psychopathy (or "primary" psychopathy) is marked by a lack of anxiety or fear and by a bold inteφersonal style that may mask mal adaptive behaviors (e.g., fraudulence). This psychopathic variant is characterized by low levels of anxiousness (Negative Affectivity domain) and withdrawal (Detachment do main) and high levels of attention seeking (Antagonism domain). High attention seeking and low withdrawal capture the social potency (assertive/dominant) component of psy chopathy, whereas low anxiousness captures the stress immunity (emotional stability/re silience) component.
> In addition to psychopathic features, trait and personality functioning specifiers may be used to record other personality features that may be present in antisocial personality dis order but are not required for the diagnosis. For example, traits of Negative Affectivity (e.g., anxiousness), are not diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder (see Criterion B) but can be specified when appropriate. Furthermore, although moderate or greater impair ment in personality functioning is required for the diagnosis of antisocial personality disor der (Criterion A), the level of personality functioning can also be specified.


I lifted the pdf from google docs and searched when it was downloaded by my computer for the word 'psychopathic'. Since the provision within AsPD is for psychopathy, clearly there is a distinction being made and elaborated on here.



Psychophantic said:


> It's my understanding that the distinction is mostly made by those personally interested in antisocial traits and the genetic/neurological causes for them (so researchers..). If that's the case, then I'm not sure it's all that useful to cite textbook terminology, especially considering that most diagnostic materials are primarily concerned with behavioral patterns and the most concerning pathological features of the disorders overlap heavily.
> 
> Also, anyone who claims that sociopathy is a result of _only_ environmental forces is certainly mistaken, though I'm familiar with the epigenetic theories circulating in the other thread.


Well even in this newest, official diagnostic manual, where they are mostly concerned with only behavioural patterns, I just established that they do make a distinction as early as 3 years ago. They demonstrate a behaviour difference in 'psychopathy'.


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

Occams Chainsaw said:


> @*Caged Within*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your quote didn't show it to my liking, so I looked it up myself. You're right. There is a difference, but very subtle.


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## Occams Chainsaw (Jan 7, 2015)

Caged Within said:


> Your quote didn't show it to my liking, so I looked it up myself. You're right. There is a difference, but very subtle.


It's a nod to the academics that are (seemingly rightly) adamant that psychopathy become it's own construct, rather than a synonym for an antisocial personality. It'll be interesting to see how this will in the future relate to NPD and other disorders too.


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## Caged Within (Aug 9, 2013)

Occams Chainsaw said:


> It's a nod to the academics that are (seemingly rightly) adamant that psychopathy become it's own construct, rather than a synonym for an antisocial personality. It'll be interesting to see how this will in the future relate to NPD and other disorders too.


Was never taught the distinction. It seems quite pointless. Both are caused by the same things, both are linked to a huge list of comorbidities, and there is no established treatment for either.


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## Occams Chainsaw (Jan 7, 2015)

Caged Within said:


> Was never taught the distinction. It seems quite pointless.


Affective and behavioural distinctions have different uses, right? Certainly lack of affect doesn't imply antisocial orientation with certainty. Also, environmental causes (poverty, one) can heavily influence the prominence of antisocial behaviours without there being a lack of conscience or fear. Perhaps those without psychopathic tendencies, though difficult to treat, are going to be considered for a different course of treatment than those with lack of affective empathy, fear, etc., for whom traditional means have been detrimental in the past. At the moment AsPD is lumped into 'psychopath; can't treat', more-or-less, and this seems facile given the other reasons it could occur. So long as the disorder implies only a pervasive antisocial tendency, it seems important to ask why in order to diagnose and manage effectively.


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