# Here we go again! IXXJ? Still have no idea about my type. Help me.



## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> I meant any type with Fi.
> IFP, EFP, ITJ, ETJ.


Yeah... It is hard to determine which one - I have no idea. 
ISFP, INFP or ISTJ. I can only say that I feel like I am a little more on the traditional and conservative side.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> I am driving myself crazy trying to be organized. I enjoy the process of organizing.
> I am a planner: I like to plan my day/week/month. I would plan out my entire life if I could.
> I make lists of things I like (music, activities, etc.) and I like to have things decided.
> I can't help myself! People notice how well put together I always look.
> ...


With the exception of the underlined sentence, these are all statements from the ISTJ handbook. Discerning individual functions from your questionnaire answers is difficult because your writing tends to be very precise and to the point. You write like me: you seem to avoid using too many words as though they will confuse the clarity of your statement.
There are some female ISTJs who would agree with the underlined statement.

I think you should start a thread in ISTJ land asking what they think and make sure the above statements by you are included in it.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

stone100674 said:


> With the exception of the underlined sentence, these are all statements from the ISTJ handbook. Discerning individual functions from your questionnaire answers is difficult because your writing tends to be very precise and to the point. You write like me: you seem to avoid using too many words as though they will confuse the clarity of your statement.
> There are some female ISTJs who would agree with the underlined statement.
> 
> I think you should start a thread in ISTJ land asking what they think and make sure the above statements by you are included in it.


Yes, I think that I am going to do it. Thank you so much! 
I think that I am still a little confused, because I see myself as a person who is influenced by group values and adhere to social rules. In general, I am concerned with the atmosphere and want to have harmony between people around me. In a way that to feel good myself I have to be sure that other people are comforted and satisfied. 
I also know that there are a lot of people who don't like me, because I often get involved in other people's business.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

reckless summer nights said:


> Does this mean that I am an ISTJ?


A T type ...I would say definitely no, your F side is clearly apparent. Logically speaking ISFJ does seem to be the best fit.
I would suggest not to spend to much time in this Thread you made for a lot of people, no one in particular, have the basic idea of Cognitive functions and how they work and apply to ourselves.
I might suggest hanging out in ISFJ section some and not to rely on what the "set in stone" traits is suppose to be. When it comes down to it it is about the cognitive functions not what each type is suppose to be working as or great in. The concept of these traits is based on how one thinks thus following how one must act this is just a way to get an average or stereotypical view a grasp you can say. In the end it comes down to your Cognitive functions for instance you to me and probably for most people your F side is no doubt there overruling and checking off T type. Yes I think that you show Introverted Thinking but this does not mean that I think that you are a T type. Just like me I am an F type with Introverted Thinking, which also leads to what makes the types different. You cant just say "this" function is this way and that's it, how does the Cognitive function before this affect "this" function. This is why I mentioned Si is not my field of expertise I am not fully aware on how Si fully works and supports the other functions. I was kinda hoping someone would jump in that was more aware of this for you and for me, I would also liked to have a better understanding of this. I normally don't tell someone something unless I am certain which is why I am making sure I say I think or not 100% sure instead of saying oh you are "so and so" as I said I do so far lean towards an ISFJ 
Either which type you really are good luck and don't forget to use your critical thinking if you have to go back and look over the functions , skip the traits.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> Yes, I think that I am going to do it. Thank you so much!
> I think that I am still a little confused, because I see myself as a person who is influenced by group values and adhere to social rules. In general, I am concerned with the atmosphere and want to have harmony between people around me. In a way that to feel good myself I have to be sure that other people are comforted and satisfied.
> I also know that there are a lot of people who don't like me, because I often get involved in other people's business.


I will tell you the impression I get: you strike me as a young ISTJ. Of course I am old, so young should be taken as a relative term. LOL :happy:


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

myjazz said:


> A T type ...I would say definitely no, your F side is clearly apparent. Logically speaking ISFJ does seem to be the best fit.
> I would suggest not to spend to much time in this Thread you made for a lot of people, no one in particular, have the basic idea of Cognitive functions and how they work and apply to ourselves.
> I might suggest hanging out in ISFJ section some and not to rely on what the "set in stone" traits is suppose to be. When it comes down to it it is about the cognitive functions not what each type is suppose to be working as or great in. The concept of these traits is based on how one thinks thus following how one must act this is just a way to get an average or stereotypical view a grasp you can say. In the end it comes down to your Cognitive functions for instance you to me and probably for most people your F side is no doubt there overruling and checking off T type. Yes I think that you show Introverted Thinking but this does not mean that I think that you are a T type. Just like me I am an F type with Introverted Thinking, which also leads to what makes the types different. You cant just say "this" function is this way and that's it, how does the Cognitive function before this affect "this" function. This is why I mentioned Si is not my field of expertise I am not fully aware on how Si fully works and supports the other functions. I was kinda hoping someone would jump in that was more aware of this for you and for me, I would also liked to have a better understanding of this. I normally don't tell someone something unless I am certain which is why I am making sure I say I think or not 100% sure instead of saying oh you are "so and so" as I said I do so far lean towards an ISFJ
> Either which type you really are good luck and don't forget to use your critical thinking if you have to go back and look over the functions , skip the traits.


I intially thought ISFJ was likely until it became apparent she uses Fi not Fe as the two below quotes show.


reckless summer nights said:


> I focus on making other people feel comfortable. I have a good psychological insight into others. There are situations when I try to help a person and give an advice, and they tell me “You are describing exactly the way I feel. How did you know that?” I never know how to answer, because I just get a feeling – it is difficult to explain. I am a good listener – I remember the details people tell me and put them in a little box in my head and try to organize feelings of that person and force them to do the right thing.





stone100674 said:


> From the Berens/Nardi description of Fi:
> "There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life's situations."
> 
> "they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words."
> ...


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

stone100674 said:


> I will tell yo the impression I get: you strike me as a young ISTJ. Of course I am old, so young should beb taken as a relative term. LOL :happy:


18 years old. 
Everything you say is very relatable. I would already decide on ISTJ if I was sure in myself being a Thinker. 
There is something that tells me that I am a little more on a Feeling side and it's not only about my ENTP best friend who calls me irrational and illogical. 
Maybe I am just underestimating myself...


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> 18 years old.
> Everything you say is very relatable. I would already decide on ISTJ if I was sure in myself being a Thinker.
> There is something that tells me that I am a little more on a Feeling side and it's not only about my ENTP best friend who calls me irrational and illogical.
> Maybe I am just underestimating myself...


 I think you are underestimating yourself. First and foremost you seem to be discounting learned behaviors among other things. Second, it is a myth that ISTJs aren't feeling: we are very emotional and loving when we feel safe. We at times become very irrational when frustrated or confused as a result of our inferior function. In our youth our inferior function can be difficult to come to terms with.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

stone100674 said:


> I intially thought ISFJ was likely until it became apparent she uses Fi not Fe as the two below quotes show.


the SF temperament - Attention to the tangible realities based on current and past experiences with a focus on the people and the values involved. A sensitive-and-caring approach.
_"I focus on making other people feel comfortable. I have a good psychological insight into others. There are situations when I try to help a person and give an advice, and they tell me “You are describing exactly the way I feel. How did you know that?” I never know how to answer, because I just get a feeling – it is difficult to explain. I am a good listener – I remember the details people tell me and put them in a little box in my head and try to organize feelings of that person and force them to do the right thing."_

_By this scenario "focusing on making other people feel comfortable" is Fe not Fi._
_
It seems you are basing this on "gut reactions" description if that is true then all Intuits is in fact Fi users not N types _
_From the Berens/Nardi description of Fi:_
_"There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life's situations."_

_"they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words."_

_"It is like having an internal sense of the "essence" of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones"

Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes
_Fe - Extroverted Feeling
The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure. The €œsocial graces,€� such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling. Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling. Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others. We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves. This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them. Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs. We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along.
Fi - Introverted Feeling
It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words. As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in. There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in lifes situations. We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, Sometimes, some things just have to be said.� On the other hand, most of the time this process works â€œin privateâ€� and is expressed through actions. It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good. It is like having an internal sense of the � of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

"It is not like I help other people to feel better. *Because I always put other people first.*
I can do something I don't want to do if I know that it will make the person I care about feel good."
Another Fe example

By saying that Summers is an T type then how can you explain how evident it is that she is a F type?


(excuse my not fully quoting I am surprised I am even able to quote once atm I havn't been able to quote for awhile now)


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

myjazz said:


> A T type ...I would say definitely no, your F side is clearly apparent. Logically speaking ISFJ does seem to be the best fit.
> I would suggest not to spend to much time in this Thread you made for a lot of people, no one in particular, have the basic idea of Cognitive functions and how they work and apply to ourselves.
> I might suggest hanging out in ISFJ section some and not to rely on what the "set in stone" traits is suppose to be. When it comes down to it it is about the cognitive functions not what each type is suppose to be working as or great in. The concept of these traits is based on how one thinks thus following how one must act this is just a way to get an average or stereotypical view a grasp you can say. In the end it comes down to your Cognitive functions for instance you to me and probably for most people your F side is no doubt there overruling and checking off T type. Yes I think that you show Introverted Thinking but this does not mean that I think that you are a T type. Just like me I am an F type with Introverted Thinking, which also leads to what makes the types different. You cant just say "this" function is this way and that's it, how does the Cognitive function before this affect "this" function. This is why I mentioned Si is not my field of expertise I am not fully aware on how Si fully works and supports the other functions. I was kinda hoping someone would jump in that was more aware of this for you and for me, I would also liked to have a better understanding of this. I normally don't tell someone something unless I am certain which is why I am making sure I say I think or not 100% sure instead of saying oh you are "so and so" as I said I do so far lean towards an ISFJ
> Either which type you really are good luck and don't forget to use your critical thinking if you have to go back and look over the functions , skip the traits.


Thank you! 
only started to learn about MBTI, I thought I was an ISFJ.  I started to read things on ISFJ forum and felt like I could relate to 95% of the things people were talking about. 
Then I started to think that I am ENFJ (which I related a little more than ISFJ), because of my test results, but then I decided I was an ESFP. :tongue: Blah blah blah...

The thing is the more I read about types and their functions the less I am sure what my type actually is.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

myjazz said:


> "It is not like I help other people to feel better. *Because I always put other people first.*
> I can do something I don't want to do if I know that it will make the person I care about feel good."
> Another Fe example
> 
> By saying that Summers is an T type then how can you explain how evident it is that she is a F type?


Because I do not feel that that the statement in bold does prove that Fe is evident. I have a tendency to put others first, so much so that I worked in extremely unsafe conditions for a decade because of the satisfaction that I derived from it and helping the people I dealt with. Many ISTJs have a very difficult time saying no, and not helping other people. The defining factor is not simply putting others first, it is why you do it.


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## Nickel (Apr 7, 2010)

reckless summer nights said:


> The thing is the more I read about types and their functions the less I am sure what my type actually is.


That often seems to happen.

I would suggest two things. One, to spend some time on the different forums (ISTJ, INFP, ISFJ, etc) and see which types you relate to the most. And two, (this is what worked for me,) is to spend some time away from the MBTI. This may seem counterintuitive, but sometimes when you delve too deeply into something, the lines become blurred and it becomes impossible to see where you fit in. After a couple weeks of just observing your own behavior, try to type yourself based on what you've seen. Make sure that you're typing yourself at your best, not at your worst. 

Remember that only _you_ can type yourself. Everyone here just does their best based on what they've observed. I hope that helps.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Nickel said:


> That often seems to happen.
> 
> I would suggest two things. One, to spend some time on the different forums (ISTJ, INFP, ISFJ, etc) and see which types you relate to the most. And two, (this is what worked for me,) is to spend some time away from the MBTI. This may seem counterintuitive, but sometimes when you delve too deeply into something, the lines become blurred and it becomes impossible to see where you fit in. After a couple weeks of just observing your own behavior, try to type yourself based on what you've seen. Make sure that you're typing yourself at your best, not at your worst.
> 
> Remember that only _you_ can type yourself. Everyone here just does their best based on what they've observed. I hope that helps.


You are SO right!  Thank you. 
And I've done the second thing 7 months ago - I was in harmony with myself and didn't visit MBTI forums and sites. This was the time I was 100% positive about being an ENFJ.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

stone100674 said:


> Because I do not feel that that the statement in bold does prove that Fe is evident. I have a tendency to put others first, so much so that I worked in extremely unsafe conditions for a decade because of the satisfaction that I derived from it and helping the people I dealt with. Many ISTJs have a very difficult time saying no, and not helping other people. The defining factor is not simply putting others first, it is why you do it.


Tendency or always? I can have the tendency sometimes to not put other people first does that mean I am Fi or Fe? Actually the whole part of what she said comes of Fe not just the bold part that part was to show ALWAYS not just when convenient just like in the example you used about Fi the same person who described Fe as I added to my other post.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

myjazz said:


> Tendency or always? I can have the tendency sometimes to not put other people first does that mean I am Fi or Fe? Actually the whole part of what she said comes of Fe not just the bold part that part was to show ALWAYS not just when convenient just like in the example you used about Fi the same person who described Fe as I added to my other post.


When I was young it was always: almost to the point of co dependence. The effect of negative Ne can be a strange thing: at times it gives me the sense that if I don't fix something, nobody will. It is from that effect that we can derive an overwhelming sense of responsibility. However I am older and have learned that I can't be responsible for everything and I only really learned that a short time ago.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

@reckless summer nights I would recommend to do what I did.
I dived so deep into MBTI that I was confused by all the information so my solution was to rip all I knew of MBTI off the wall and start from scratch with the basics without the mistakes you make from the start.

Read these
My MBTI Personality Type - MBTI Basics
My MBTI Personality Type - Understanding MBTI Type Dynamics

and then just tell us which you agree with the most and we can maybe go from there.
After all, those definitions are the official definitions so they can't be wrong. :wink:


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> @reckless summer nights I would recommend to do what I did.
> I dived so deep into MBTI that I was confused by all the information so my solution was to rip all I knew of MBTI off the wall and start from scratch with the basics without the mistakes you make from the start.
> 
> Read these
> ...


Thank you.  

Basically I decided to went through descriptions of 16 types. Since they are extremely brief, I can at least relate to anything in half of these descriptions.

"Take pleasure in making everything orderly and organized – their work, their home, their life. Value traditions and loyalty." - ISTJ

"Loyal, considerate, notice and remember specifics about people who are important to them, concerned with how others feel." - ISFJ

"Want to understand what motivates people and are insightful about others." - INFJ

"They want to act energetically to solve the problem. Enjoy material comforts and style. Learn best through doing." - ESTP

"Make connections between events and information very quickly, and confidently proceed based on the patterns they see." - ENFP

"Notice what others need in their day-by-day lives and try to provide it." - ESFJ

"Warm, empathetic, responsive, and responsible. Highly attuned to the emotions, needs, and motivations of others. Find potential in everyone, want to help others fulfill their potential." - ENFJ

I've read "The Eight Function-Attitudes" and have to say that I am a little confused, because I can relate myself to Introverted Sensing, Introverted Intuition, Extraverted Feeling and Introverted Thinking.

If I had to choose my type looking at four letters, I would stick with two options: ISFJ and INFJ.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

reckless summer nights said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Basically I decided to went through descriptions of 16 types. Since they are extremely brief, I can at least relate to anything in half of these descriptions.
> 
> ...


Well then, read through these 
http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/76894-recognizing-inferior-function-infj.html
http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-forum-nurturers/78129-recognizing-inferior-function-isfj.html
I find these a lot more accurate since the functions are how you think and when you think of how you think you've already become subjective about it.
These tell you accurately how different types act normally and under stress etc.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

reckless summer nights said:


> Thank you.
> If I had to choose my type looking at four letters, I would stick with two options: ISFJ and INFJ.


You do have a border line INFJ feel to you which furthers any evidence of a logical conclusion to me towards ISFJ, as if I can come to an logical conclusion >.< 
Don't let this add any more confusion I am not saying you are INFJ


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Well then, read through these
> http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/76894-recognizing-inferior-function-infj.html
> http://personalitycafe.com/isfj-forum-nurturers/78129-recognizing-inferior-function-isfj.html
> I find these a lot more accurate since the functions are how you think and when you think of how you think you've already become subjective about it.
> These tell you accurately how different types act normally and under stress etc.


 I am not sure if I could call myself an INFJ since they tend to be complicated, mysterious creatures with good imagination. I've noticed that a lot of people mistype themselves as iNtuitive types and I wouldn't want to be one of those. Although I can imagine myself being an ENFJ since their dominant function is Fe.  

In the first description I can relate to these statements:

"INFJs are especially sensitive to unexpressed anger and conflict, whose presence is usually denied by others."

"They are highly energized when they are able to use their creativity and independence of thought and action to achieve important goals.They enjoy variety in the projects they work on and prefer complex problems to simple ones."

"They may be seen as overly critical and hard to please."

"For Introverted Intuitive types, relaxing their dominant and auxiliary functions may occur through such sensual pleasures as eating, exercising, and gardening. One INTJ especially enjoys and appreciates sunshine in spring, autumn, and winter. Another likes to “go somewhere beautiful—mountains, ocean, water.” INFJs often mention the pleasant luxury of taking an afternoon nap. Other Introverted Intuitive types describe craving very hot curries, or escaping by becoming totally absorbed in a mystery or adventure novel."

"Introverted Intuitive types take up hobbies that require careful attention to details and memory for facts, such as photography, woodworking, furniture refinishing, or cooking."

"Introverted Intuitive types mention going for walks or drives and noticing interesting details, such as the shapes of houses, the designs on garage doors, the arrangements of trees and flower beds in parks."

"They describe being provoked by such things as crowds; people overload; noisy, busy environments; feeling that their personal space is being invaded; and frequent interruptions. When faced with such provocations, they retreat inside themselves and become intolerant of intrusions by others.They either express irritation at people’s questions or do not respond at all to attempts to communicate with them."

"INFJs hold very high standards of excellence for themselves and others, so issues of competence at work are quite important."

"As dominant Introverted Intuition loses its position of primacy, INTJs and INFJs start to lose their characteristic wide-ranging, global perspective. Their field of operation narrows considerably, and their range of acknowledged possibilities becomes limited and idiosyncratic. They may make more factual mistakes and become careless with spelling and grammar. “I am unable to cope with simple decisions and problems,” said an INTJ woman. “I’m frustrated by the physical world—I lose things, drop them, hate them. I don’t know what to wear or what to eat. I’m impatient with people and can’t read or concentrate.”"

"An INFJ said, “I alphabetize my compact discs; or suddenly it’s time to do that thing I thought about doing two months ago. I drop everything and do it; or I fixate on smells and sounds.”“I organize or clean. I feel pressured and can’t think clearly,” reported another INFJ."

From the second description:

"Introverted Sensing types are careful and orderly in their attention to facts and details."

"Both ISTJs and ISFJs are uncomfortable moving beyond sensory experience until they have thoroughly absorbed and understood it.They want to review and assimilate the facts and events of a movie or book before discussing its meaning with others."

"They see themselves and are seen by others as worriers.They are ready to notice and comment on negative possibilities even in everyday, nonstressful situations."

"Poetry, music, and art may provide a way for Introverted Sensing types to engage their “other side.”Their choice of artists and styles within the arts may tend toward the expressive and dramatic, and they often prefer romantic musicians and artists."

"Introverted Sensing types to intractable anger and stubborn immovability. One ISFJ said,“If I’m watching the devastating effects of an ongoing crisis and someone says to me,‘Don’t worry, everything is going to be fine,’ I come unglued. I steamroll over the person and mow them down!”"

"An ISTJ reported that her usual calm demeanor is replaced by cold fury and biting sarcasm when someone tries to contradict the evidence of her senses:“I’m seeing and smelling the ash from this guy’s cigar and smelling the smoke on his breath and he’s telling me he doesn’t smoke cigars!”"

"Too much interacting with people can also be stressful for ISTJs and ISFJs, especially if a great deal of talking occurs.They are likely to view too much talking and too many meetings as wasting time they could be devoting to accomplishing things."

"Introverted Sensing types’ characteristic task orientation and calm attention to responsibilities begin to disappear as they move further into the grip. “I feel like I’m in a fog of sand and can’t absorb details around me,” said an ISTJ."

"“I start imagining a lot of terrible things that could happen,” said an ISTJ.“If I tell anybody what I’m thinking, the usual response is,‘you worry too much,’ or ‘don’t think about that.’ I appear emotional, not my usual controlled self. I am not being realistic, which I always pride myself on being, but borderline ridiculous,” she concluded."


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

reckless summer nights said:


> @_myjazz_ what do you think the two most possible types in my case?


I am sorry I am really unable to say I believe your are this or that, by doing so would would be going against myself. Which is what is good about debates this allows another person to take that logic apart and dissect it, as I mentioned I did kinda want someone to come along to do so. 
Whatever type you really are taking test after test to quiz's back to test and an inadequate feedback is not at all going to help you. Just going to confuse you to the point of screaming your head off or giving up and or a false understanding of functions.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

myjazz said:


> I am sorry I am really unable to say I believe your are this or that, by doing so would would be going against myself. Which is what is good about debates this allows another person to take that logic apart and dissect it, as I mentioned I did kinda want someone to come along to do so.
> Whatever type you really are taking test after test to quiz's back to test and an inadequate feedback is not at all going to help you. Just going to confuse you to the point of screaming your head off or giving up and or a false understanding of functions.


You are actually right.  Thank you.
I think I am going to get MBTI out of my mind, take some time and make one last test. The result will be my type and I will accept it without questioning it. Haha.  Kind of...


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> Here's my result:
> 
> Type 1 - 30
> Type 2 - 26
> ...


Well you are what you feel that are: when it comes down to it nobody knows you like you.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

reckless summer nights said:


> I am wondering if an INFP could be as structured and organized as I am?


I can't answer that because I don't really know how structured you are: what I can say is that I have I have never met an INFP that was as structured or as punctual as me. Although I guess it could be learned, but I suspect it would not be as consistent.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Congratulations @myjazz, you successfully made someone give up on MBTI/take a break from MBTI -.-'

The problem I see is that I'm not getting a decisive answer when asking a question or even much of a response that can help me pin a type down.
It's basically
- "What do you think about this?"
- "It could be correct"
- "But what do you think about it?"
- "There's things I agree with and things I don't"
- "Such as?"
- *brings out contradicting things* "but I also agree with all these"

No offense, but that doesn't really help the typing.

It's like this one


> I am wondering if an INFP could be as structured and organized as I am?


Well, can you explain in what ways you are structured? All this tells me is that you are most likely guided by an introverted perceiving function like Si or Ni.
I would say Ni since you keep dodging questions and answering them indirectly or just partially.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Well, can you explain in what ways you are structured? All this tells me is that you are most likely guided by an introverted perceiving function like Si or Ni.
> I would say Ni since you keep dodging questions and answering them indirectly or just partially.


I don't really get Ni from that myself, I partially answer a lot of things simply based on the fact that I sometimes have trouble finding the correct words to express why and I don't use Ni at all.
Consider these statements she made:


reckless summer nights said:


> I am driving myself crazy trying to be organized. I enjoy the process of organizing.
> I am a planner: I like to plan my day/week/month. I would plan out my entire life if I could.
> I make lists of things I like (music, activities, etc.) and I like to have things decided.
> I think and work better when everything is organized, neat and clean. I like to know where my things are.
> ...


I get more Si and Te (Te loves to organize things)


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

stone100674 said:


> I don't really get Ni from that myself, I partially answer a lot of things simply based on the fact that I sometimes have trouble finding the correct words to express why and I don't use Ni at all.
> Consider these statements she made:
> 
> I get more Si and Te (Te loves to organize things)


Definitely a lot of Te. But we haven't discussed the other type that is in the middle.
We were quite certain she used Fi and Pi and Te. That also means she might be INTJ.
Female IXTJs can look a lot like they are XiFe in general.

Also, I think that if you made statements about yourself people would think you were ESFJ and if I did the same thing they would keep bugging me by calling me ESFJ as well, lol.

I would like her to describe her negatives.

Like for me.
I get annoyed and anxious when I'm forced to take in more than I want from my environment.
I get mean when I have little energy or when the atmosphere is hostile.
I can't stop thinking of consequences.
I got a bit of a martyr complex (for better or worse I guess).

So something like that.
What I basically said in those few where that I had a weak Se and strong Ni. An introverted is my dominant and a marty complex is something INFJs are usually accused for (guessing that is the NiFe combination).


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Definitely a lot of Te. But we haven't discussed the other type that is in the middle.
> We were quite certain she used Fi and Pi and Te. That also means she might be INTJ.
> Female IXTJs can look a lot like they are XiFe in general.
> 
> ...


I get annoyed when my logic and structure are questioned.
I get angry when people push me to do things that I don't see any point in and this includes if I went to a place and didn't like it and somebody says well what if you changed this one thing and try it again. Well no: I don't like that place.
When highly stressed I have trouble thinking of positive solutions and can't really picture any positive outcomes.
I hate it when people move my things mostly because it screws with my order: they never put things back in the proper place.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Congratulations @_myjazz_, you successfully made someone give up on MBTI/take a break from MBTI -.-'
> 
> No offense, but that doesn't really help the typing.
> 
> .


You say that like it is a bad thing, I wouldn't say give up but a break from oohh am I this or am I that - since I am organized I must be this but this doesn't fit me and so on and so on. Yes I would say a break after all she did mention 1 more test >.<


As far as what a lot of what the responses or questions not helping you to type Summer. Reminds me of what my Sifu would always tell me " never fight your opponent's fight"


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

stone100674 said:


> I get annoyed when my logic and structure are questioned.
> I get angry when people push me to do things that I don't see any point in and this includes if I went to a place and didn't like it and somebody says well what if you changed this one thing and try it again. Well no: I don't like that place.
> When highly stressed I have trouble thinking of positive solutions and can't really picture any positive outcomes.
> I hate it when people move my things mostly because it screws with my order: they never put things back in the proper place.


hehe, you can see how the Pi dominance makes some overlapping reasoning. :tongue:


> I get annoyed when my logic and structure are questioned.





> I get angry when people push me to do things that I don't see any point in and this includes if I went to a place and didn't like it and somebody says well what if you changed this one thing and try it again.





> I hate it when people move my things mostly because it screws with my order: they never put things back in the proper place.


Can definitely agree with those xD
The "When highly stressed I have trouble thinking of positive solutions and can't really picture any positive outcomes." thing is where the largest difference is (since that's the inferior function) and in how we emphasize "negatives".
Mine were focused around people and your around structure. :crazy:

So if ignoring that I know you're ISTJ I'd guess you are ISTJ after reading that :tongue:

Still waiting for @reckless summer nights's response tho roud:


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

myjazz said:


> Reminds me of what my Sifu would always tell me " never fight your opponent's fight"


It's a good thing we're not in a battle then.
Maybe you see her as your opponent, but I don't. Nor do I see you as my opponent.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

stone100674 said:


> I don't really get Ni from that myself, I partially answer a lot of things simply based on the fact that I sometimes have trouble finding the correct words to express why and I don't use Ni at all.


This is largely due to using Introverted Perceiving as primary function where as we both are, while at same time can be an Intuitive process.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Acerbusvenator said:


> It's a good thing we're not in a battle then.
> Maybe you see her as your opponent, but I don't. Nor do I see you as my opponent.


An Opponent can be 



Someone who competes against or fights another in a contest, game, or argument.
A person who disagrees with or resists a proposal or practice

we can keep going and define argument or what is disagreeing. But my point is the same logic applies as to what my Sifu said, which is half of the actual quote. If someone is confused or doesn't know , don't dwell in that confusion in the process, if able clear the confusion before going on. For instance not everyone who has any form of gut feelings or intuition doesn't automatically make someone an N type in cognitive functioning. The concept of Introvert is we are focused inward. where does intuition come from? If you add Introvert perceiving Ni or Si this can add onto an intuitive side or gut feeling. This is one of the reasons INFJ may seem more or on the N side or extremely N ...we got this double dose...


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

...............................whats up with that outline box


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

> "never fight your opponent's fight"





> A person who disagrees with or resists a proposal or practice


There's something that deeply pisses me off by that...
Someone else gave an equal comment "I can not teach you, but one day you'll see that I'm right" or something like that. It assumes that you got a better understanding than someone else and that they will agree with you once they "grow up".
It pisses me off because it naturally assumes that you posses "a higher level of understanding" than someone else.

Such arrogance...


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Acerbusvenator said:


> There's something that deeply pisses me off by that...
> Someone else gave an equal comment "I can not teach you, but one day you'll see that I'm right" or something like that. It assumes that you got a better understanding than someone else and that they will agree with you once they "grow up".
> It pisses me off because it naturally assumes that you posses "a higher level of understanding" than someone else.
> 
> Such arrogance...


huh?


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Well, can you explain in what ways you are structured?


I am a structured person, because I look for order and meaning in my every day life. It helps me to keep myself stable - I like knowing how my day is going to be and enjoy following a consistent routine. I was always interested in proportion and perfection. I see perfectionism as thinking that you should do something perfect, certainly important, to change the world for the better.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Definitely a lot of Te. But we haven't discussed the other type that is in the middle.
> We were quite certain she used Fi and Pi and Te. That also means she might be INTJ.
> Female IXTJs can look a lot like they are XiFe in general.
> 
> ...


- I am indecisive and easily influenced. I always can see all sides of a situation and all possible solutions, but I also want to make everyone else happy and balanced with my decision. That makes it extremely hard to choose one solution.
- I tend to be very manipulative and know how to get my way in various situations.
- Being a talkative person I will often fail to think before I speak and this can cause problems in relationships with people.
- I am frequently taken advantage of because of my giving nature.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

reckless summer nights said:


> - I am indecisive and easily influenced. I always can see all sides of a situation and all possible solutions, but I also want to make everyone else happy and balanced with my decision. That makes it extremely hard to choose one solution.
> - I tend to be very manipulative and know how to get my way in various situations.
> - Being a talkative person I will often fail to think before I speak and this can cause problems in relationships with people.
> - I am frequently taken advantage of because of my giving nature.


Both of the above statements seem very IFP-ish.
Fi and Te 
I'd say INFP out of the fact of what you said here:


> - I am indecisive and easily influenced. I always can see all sides of a situation and all possible solutions, but I also want to make everyone else happy and balanced with my decision. That makes it extremely hard to choose one solution.


Sounds like intuition - Ne especially.
Se, Si, and Ni are more... decisive.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Sounds like intuition - Ne especially.
> Se, Si, and Ni are more... decisive.


Yes.  But once I set my mind on something, I hold onto my decision. On the other hand, the first statement relates to emotional situations. When it comes to working on something I am actually decisive.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

reckless summer nights said:


> I am not confused/scared/offended by "fights" in this thread and I hope that you are either.
> I am sorry that it took so long for me to come up with such a short response. However...
> I relate to Ni descriptions you all posted. Very informative. Thank you!
> I can't claim I am good at predicting future, but I always imagine situations that can happen and ask myself "what if... ?". I don't have thousands of wonderful, whimsical ideas in my head: I am completely comfortable with complexity, at the same time I like to go from many possibilities towards one conclusion/focusing on one idea. I will pick an idea or possibility that feels right for me and think through it on my own.
> ...


Well that sounds close enough of an explanation :laughing:
Truth is that it's the Ne people who got a lot of random ideas in their heads.
One of the problems tho with introverted intuition and introverted sensing is that they are both subjective and can be quite much alike. That's why I personally like to go by inferior functions when finding out what dominant function a person has.
Truth is that you didn't really seem to identify much with inferior Ne and I kept thinking that you kept dodging questions in... well, the same way I do :laughing: and at the point I realized that I was quite intrigued.
I would say that it's really likely that you are a Ni dom based on all the information gathered. roud:


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## Tru7h (Oct 16, 2012)

My Lord. Sorry to sound insensitive, but if you can't figure it out after 160 posts, there is WAY too much speculation going on here. Listen to and evaluate the true facts. Then, go from there.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Tru7h said:


> My Lord. Sorry to sound insensitive, but if you can't figure it out after 160 posts, there is WAY too much speculation going on here. Listen to and evaluate the true facts. Then, go from there.


Could you expand on that?


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## Tru7h (Oct 16, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Could you expand on that?


Yeah: know what is true of yourself and be convicted of who you really are. Accept the truth. If all you do is speculate on how you could be one function as versus to the other, then you are never going to get anywhere.

I do really state it simply when I say that after 160 posts, you should have figured your type out by now.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Tru7h said:


> Yeah: know what is true of yourself and be convicted of who you really are. Accept the truth. If all you do is speculate on how you could be one function as versus to the other, then you are never going to get anywhere.
> 
> I do really state it simply when I say that after 160 posts, you should have figured your type out by now.


Yep, by now she should have the tools she needs to find her type. We can't really do more than repeat information and make guesses. 
The last part of the road is always up to the person being typed - after all, it's their life we are analyzing and they know the best what is significant to who hey are and what isn't.

After all, that was why I spent about 15 pages fighting LeaT in my own thread because she tried to tell me what was significant to me and what defined me instead of leaving that part up to me.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

reckless summer nights said:


> I am not confused/scared/offended by "fights" in this thread and I hope that you are either.
> I am sorry that it took so long for me to come up with such a short response. However...
> I relate to Ni descriptions you all posted. Very informative. Thank you!
> I can't claim I am good at predicting future, but I always imagine situations that can happen and ask myself "what if... ?". I don't have thousands of wonderful, whimsical ideas in my head: I am completely comfortable with complexity, at the same time I like to go from many possibilities towards one conclusion/focusing on one idea. I will pick an idea or possibility that feels right for me and think through it on my own.
> ...


No needs to apologize, especially when it is us who is acting foolishly ---hopefully comes down to order out of chaos.
(you are probably aware of this but a quick reference)
The thing with Intuition and Sensing is everyone has them both as Acer pointed out. It is the usage of Intuition vs Sensing as to which one we would be more associated with, Then onto if they are Introverted or Extraverted. 
I will take myself for an example by using the story of the Nurse from previous post by Acer.

We was given a story of a nurse and was told that (gona use she) she had opposing Intuition and Sensing fighting for attention.
Now just like test that use pictures I am going to attempt to use the story of this nurse and my reaction on it by cognitive reasoning. 

At first this started out vague to me but understood as to what the writer was getting at. Then to states as to accepting imaginary situations as actually occurred made me wonder what this book was really about.
Then the story began of the Nurse right of the bat olmost I began to imagine a real Nurse that was in some form of a college laboratory with test tubes and smoke coming out of beakers and all, before I got to much into this mind wandering. I put my focus back on the nurse as the smoke cleared away. Now she was more in an uptight scenario measuring things in detail. As she gets praise for taking care of the patients now she shifted into a caring nurse and thought that's nice.
Then the darkness came down on this Nurse. Not paying attention to the child she was taken care of, well suppose to be taking care of that is. I started to dislike this nurse, I mean a child really why did the writer have to use a child and pediatric field for this story. As this nurse began to continue her lack of attention I started to feel sorry for this nurse for how in depth this inattentiveness. Then she had to leave or quit her career due to her lack of attention not to mention the pediatric unit had lost a potently good nurse. By the time I was done reading this story I was really concerned for this nurse and wanted to help her or for her to get the help she needed. Partly pissed at the doctor's and whoever else who should of had at least simple knowledge of this nurse having problems. Did they not care? or just ignored it? ....I can go on and on with this but I think this will be suffice enough.

At first I started to use my Thinking side to read and understand the writers idea of opposing functions. Which shifted to my Intuition side due to the how vague this was for that function. 
I used my iNtuition making this story real while my_ Ni_ olmost got away from me I snapped it back some before this turned into some mad scientist lab...or mad nurse's lab. As I continued to read with my Ni still making a movie out of this brief story, my _Fe _latched on (which is already evident by contrast of focusing on the nurse) even more when the nurse starts in on the nurse aspect of taking care of people. My _Fe_ started to turn on this nurse due to her not paying attention to her patient in this case a child. Then my _Fe_ (with Ni and Ti's help) calmed down when I started to see why this nurse was neglecting the patient. (Ni-Ti pairing is a whole different subject to get into at the moment) As I perceived the information taking place my _Ti_ started to analyze this new data. Thanks to my _Ni-T_i combo I was able to come to a sustainable conclusion that made sense with the data or info I had from the nurse, Allowing my _Fe_ to be at ease. My Fe still wasn't completely happy by the end of this story. mostly due to the fact that Ni-Fe lived out this nurses life in my head, thankfully to having balanced functions not allowing this false scenario to be in fact reality. Which is common for INFJ's to take peoples life's or problems as there own depends on strength of functions, and balance of functions to snap back from this. 

Well honestly I am tired of talking about myself and think I made in some way clear....
I know I have not went in 100% detail of functioning in this but merely an example and the main parts pointed out.
If you wish to discuss this or ask questions feel free to ask


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Well that sounds close enough of an explanation :laughing:
> Truth is that it's the Ne people who got a lot of random ideas in their heads.
> One of the problems tho with introverted intuition and introverted sensing is that they are both subjective and can be quite much alike. That's why I personally like to go by inferior functions when finding out what dominant function a person has.
> Truth is that you didn't really seem to identify much with inferior Ne and I kept thinking that you kept dodging questions in... well, the same way I do :laughing: and at the point I realized that I was quite intrigued.
> I would say that it's really likely that you are a Ni dom based on all the information gathered. roud:





myjazz said:


> No needs to apologize, especially when it is us who is acting foolishly ---hopefully comes down to order out of chaos.
> (you are probably aware of this but a quick reference)
> The thing with Intuition and Sensing is everyone has them both as Acer pointed out. It is the usage of Intuition vs Sensing as to which one we would be more associated with, Then onto if they are Introverted or Extraverted.
> I will take myself for an example by using the story of the Nurse from previous post by Acer.
> ...


I feel like I have to go with ENFJ, because I can imagine Ni as my auxiliary function and Fe as my dominant.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Ah, I see what is going on


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

myjazz said:


> Ah, I see what is going on


What do you think is going on?


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

reckless summer nights said:


> What do you think is going on?


OMG never ask an INFJ that question !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


seriously though if you are happy with ENFJ and makes your life better than ENFJ!!!!! 

I am kinda intrigued with seeing you around the forums, You seem to be a nice and friendly person...and oh boy does this forum need more of that at times.


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

myjazz said:


> OMG never ask an INFJ that question !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> seriously though if you are happy with ENFJ and makes your life better than ENFJ!!!!!
> ...


Okay... 
It's not like that!  I've seen INFJ forum and I feel like I am far more Extraverted than all of them. 
I am not "happy" with being this type or that type - I am happy with being myself.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

reckless summer nights said:


> Okay...
> It's not like that!  I've seen INFJ forum and I feel like I am far more Extraverted than all of them.
> I am not "happy" with being this type or that type - I am happy with being myself.


I am happy with being myself.
^ my point  ...old habit of explaining what I meant hehe


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

myjazz said:


> I am happy with being myself.
> ^ my point  ...old habit of explaining what I meant hehe


I am going to think if I am an INFJ or an ENFJ. Promise. Thank you.


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