# Weight Loss Reality Shows - Do they Help?



## Bluity (Nov 12, 2012)

Shows like Biggest Loser, Extreme Makeover Weight Loss Edition, Supersized Versus Superskinny, etc.

Have any of these shows motivated you to lose weight? Or do they put you off of exercising all together? What's your opinion of them?


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Supersized vs Superskinny has helped me a bit, given me motivation. I think it's very good to look at the difference, shows you that it works if you try. There was also another show I don't remember its name, where they were assigned a personal trainer and in 3-4 months time they lost a tremendous amount of weight. It was extreme but it still shows you that it's possible. I actually think these shows are a good type of reality shows because they can have a good, healthy impact on viewers.


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## OutOfThisWorld (Nov 4, 2013)

I like the shows. They are quite nice at showing people who are focused on dropping the weight and reclaiming their lives. It is great to see shows that are currently addressing the staggering issue of obesity in America and that people should really start watching their health. Though, I don't like how The Biggest Loser and Extreme Weight Loss are portraying that it's okay to lose that much amount of weight in such a short period of time. 

Personally, I don't feel particularly motivated whenever I watch it because I don't have much to lose (just need about 20 lbs more before my goal weight) and that I can't really relate due to the fact that my body type is not as extreme as those in the shows.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

They came later, when they should have been the first (and maybe only) kind of reality television.


lf l were going to watch a reality show about anything, it would be weight loss. 

As a series, not sure many viewers stick with it. l was initially impressed with the idea but it's not something l did/do watch regularly.

As far as 'working' l'm just a hobbyist, l suppose as l had no weight to lose. l did find them inspiring


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## Robert J Gough (Dec 29, 2013)

I used to love watching BL (both the US and the Aussie versions). Lived for them, actually. I'm not the oversized type, but some of the 'contestants' were / have been pretty inspirational. Was a good thing to keep in mind when I was at the gym, and seeing some of the bigger ones there.

Now, after watching the recent finale of the US season, I'm thinking it's now a 'game show' where contestants will do whatever they need / have to do to win (much like Survivor) and no longer a 'community service'.

The looks of shock on Bob's and Jillian's faces... sure a similar look was on mine, too.

The trainers themselves were actually the reason I watched. They gave me the inspiration to go down the path I am... and slowly getting closer to bringing BL to NZ. Just without the cameras, without the cash prize at the end, etc.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Supersize vs superskinny is a great one. I like to watch it with some workout music in the bg too, while I do some HIIT, and every time I see a beige food (bread, battered and fried thing, sweets, noodles) its a cue to pick up the pace.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Bluity said:


> Shows like Biggest Loser, Extreme Makeover Weight Loss Edition, Supersized Versus Superskinny, etc.
> 
> Have any of these shows motivated you to lose weight? Or do they put you off of exercising all together? What's your opinion of them?


Neither. I am so disgusted by the typical fat-shaming that I refuse to even watch them. The times when I have tried, I got so angry that I couldn't continue.

I prefer a "Health at Every Size" approach that focuses on a healthy lifestyle rather than obsessing over weight. That is the most scientifically sound method, and it gets away from all of the body hatred. I'm probably always going to be fat because of my medical conditions, but that doesn't mean I should give up on eating well and being active. A weight-focused person who had my body would end up quitting in frustration. She would say, "I guess nothing I am doing works, so why bother?" That would be a disaster. When being skinny isn't the goal, it is much easier to maintain a healthy lifestyle.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

snail said:


> Neither. I am so disgusted by the typical fat-shaming that I refuse to even watch them. The times when I have tried, I got so angry that I couldn't continue.
> 
> I prefer a "Health at Every Size" approach that focuses on a healthy lifestyle rather than obsessing over weight. That is the most scientifically sound method, and it gets away from all of the body hatred. I'm probably always going to be fat because of my medical conditions, but that doesn't mean I should give up on eating well and being active. A weight-focused person who had my body would end up giving up. She would say, "I guess nothing I am doing works, so why bother?" That would be a disaster.


I have to give supersize vs superskinny credit; I have never seen one of them say anything insulting to the obese or the anorexic guests on the show. They are supportive of health, not promoting an image. The obese people on the show take in more than 3000 calories a day typically and are headed for a health crisis, and the anorexics I have seen eat a few hundred to 1200 cals a day, and are also headed for serious health issues. Its not like one of those shows where its average to slightly overweight people trying to look like fitness models. I think what they do psychologically helps too - the anorexics see just how little they eat, and the obese see how much, and both reconsider and start to take on more healthy portions, for health.

TBL recently was very upsetting, in contrast, with the scary weight loss of the 'winner' of the show. The doctor she saw when she was officially given the winning title said she was at a good weight at 150, she then on her own after the show, got down to something like 108(?) and looked emaciated, which is never a good goal for a person who wants to "be more healthy" thus proving it wasn't about health, but about ego.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Promethea said:


> I have to give supersize vs superskinny credit; I have never seen one of them say anything insulting to the obese or the anorexic guests on the show. They are supportive of health, not promoting an image. The obese people on the show take in more than 3000 calories a day typically and are headed for a health crisis, and the anorexics I have seen eat a few hundred to 1200 cals a day, and are also headed for serious health issues. Its not like one of those shows where its average to slightly overweight people trying to look like fitness models. I think what they do psychologically helps too - the anorexics see just how little they eat, and the obese see how much, and both reconsider and start to take on more healthy portions, for health.
> 
> TBL recently was very upsetting, in contrast, with the scary weight loss of the 'winner' of the show. The doctor she saw when she was officially given the winning title said she was at a good weight at 150, she then on her own after the show, got down to something like 108(?) and looked emaciated, which is never a good goal for a person who wants to "be more healthy" thus proving it wasn't about health, but about ego.


I haven't seen the Supersize vs Superskinny one. To be honest, the title is off-putting because it seems to be about size rather than health, but if the actual goals of the show are health-related, perhaps I am just being too harsh. I have no experience with that particular program. Perhaps they are actually trying to help people live better lives.

I've seen bits and pieces of The Biggest Loser and it seemed to consist of "trainers" emotionally abusing fat people to shame them into exercising harder, which I can't imagine any self-respecting person putting up with for more than three seconds, even for a cash prize. I despise everything that show stands for, and the recent scandal only proves that they care more about size than about health. I refuse to watch it because I fear I would break the television in a violent rage while trying to empathize with the contestants who are being treated poorly.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

When the cameras start rolling it is no longer 'reality', but a gameshow on TV.

I don't watch those shows as I don't like the concept, so I'm choosing not to comment any further.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

snail said:


> I haven't seen the Supersize vs Superskinny one. To be honest, the title is off-putting because it seems to be about size rather than health, but if the actual goals of the show are health-related, perhaps I am just being too harsh. I have no experience with that particular program. Perhaps they are actually trying to help people live better lives.
> 
> I've seen bits and pieces of The Biggest Loser and it seemed to consist of "trainers" emotionally abusing fat people to shame them into exercising harder, which I can't imagine any self-respecting person putting up with for more than three seconds, even for a cash prize. I despise everything that show stands for, and the recent scandal only proves that they care more about size than about health. I refuse to watch it because I fear I would break the television in a violent rage while trying to empathize with the contestants who are being treated poorly.



I think you're going to like this one, even from the beginning it addresses obsession about size.


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## Devin87 (May 15, 2011)

BL is a horrible show. They push people to lose weight at an extremely dangerous and unhealthy rate using dangerous means and people watching that show get it in their heads that a 20-30 pound weight loss in a week is expected. They shame the people (usually the women) who lose only 5-10 pounds in a week. It's sick.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Red Panda said:


> I think you're going to like this one, even from the beginning it addresses obsession about size.


*kitchen envy* ~4 mins in.. that girls family has the coolest kitchen ever. a grill and a brick oven right in the kitchen, oh my. 

anyway, more on point - i think this show is good at addressing health, instead of vanity, as its addressing the thin standard as an unhealthy epidemic as well. models and ballerinas are forced to be technically underweight, or they will lose their career, -dream- in some cases, which is sick. here this girl eats only enough for a 4 year old, yet plenty would celebrate her body type as more healthy than that of people who are even average size (because even average size is considered chubby now). this show shows just how little people that size eat. undereating by that much, the body starts to take protein from your organs - then you're screwed.

i think the 'ban big bum' thing in this ep is insulting and stupid though. its degradation. i haven't seen anything like it in the other eps though, and the main guy on the show is always very respectful.


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## Devrim (Jan 26, 2013)

They give you HORRIBLY inaccurate and unhealthy ideas as to how fast you can loose weight,
Loosing weight and keeping it off is not a few month process,
It is a lifestyle,
And people are not shown that in these shows,
They just promote extreme and dangerous methods of loosing weight.

They don't even come back and show you how they have picked weight up again over the year.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Red Panda said:


> I think you're going to like this one, even from the beginning it addresses obsession about size.


Nope. I hate it. "Ban big bums?!" Really? I'd rather see people accepting their bodies and taking care of themselves because they want to be healthy rather than because they are ashamed of having fat asses or being yelled at by an obnoxious body-shaming old lady who goes around groping strangers.

That show is still very much about weight and appearance, even though it pretends not to be.

It is entertainment at the expense of people who have body image issues and eating disorders. It perpetuates annoying stereotypes about weight and food, and those stereotypes are the same ones that hurt people like me who are not accurately represented. They are the same beliefs that cause eating disorders in the first place and lead to body-hatred. Shows like this are a big part of the very problem that they pretend to be solving.

Because of the constant association between food and weight, I have been berated for how I look by people who pretended it was about health. I have been falsely accused of scarfing down huge quantities of fried meats and candy by people who think all fat people live that way, even though I am a health-conscious vegan with an active lifestyle. I avoid sweets and refined carbs, and I don't overeat. When I read anything online about fat people, there is this constant underlying assumption that we all bring it upon ourselves by making stupid lifestyle decisions, so we deserve to be punished and shamed for our bad choices. Likewise, I have had skinny friends who ate a lot more than I did who were criticized for "starving themselves" because of such false assumptions, and it was just as unfair. 

As long as shows like this keep reinforcing that idea, the haters will use it as an excuse to be bullies and to say that they are hurting us for our own good. They need to stop trying to control other people's bodies. Even those who really do eat too little or too much should not be criticized for it. There are usually reasons, and such people are often already emotionally damaged. Do the haters really think that adding to the damage will help, or that emotional wounds can be healed just by changing how much food people eat? That is the sort of thing I worry about when I see such things. 

I got about twelve minutes into it before I was just so offended and angry that I had to stop.


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## SeñorTaco (Jun 5, 2013)

I haven't watched Supersized vs Superskinny all that much but it was okay because they offered healthier advice as opposed to The Biggest Loser. 

Here's the thing about TBL: It teaches people how to lose weight regardless of what the cost is. Apparently the contestants have been dehydrated in order to have good weigh in results. This is apparently one of the many issues with TBL. 

The Biggest Loser Review - Professionals Give Their View on the Reality Show


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

snail said:


> Nope. I hate it. "Ban big bums?!" Really? I'd rather see people accepting their bodies and taking care of themselves because they want to be healthy rather than because they are ashamed of having fat asses or being yelled at by an obnoxious body-shaming old lady who goes around groping strangers.
> 
> That show is still very much about weight and appearance, even though it pretends not to be.
> 
> ...



I think you are taking this way too personally. You're looking it from a personal PoV instead of a societal, and you make many assumptions without having watched it. 
Yes there are people like you, and me (I have Hashimoto's) who have health issues that cause them weight gain, but for the majority of society, obesity is based on lifestyle and big portions. Besides, there's no point in making a show with overweight people (and skinny) if their cause of obesity is a health issue, this is something that could be mentioned in a single episode (maybe it is I haven't watched them all). This show tries to increase awareness on portion sizes and lifestyle choices, which are the no 1 cause of weight gain in otherwise healthy people.
I think that's where the "ban big bums" targets, it's just using a bit silly and catchy (it's still a tv show after all) way of addressing the public health issue that obesity is. Besides, the lady in season 1 that tries various fad or extreme diets is sarcastically addressing this obsession for thin image and shame for body image in general.

I also disagree that the show is entertainment at the expense of people who have issues since they use only arguments about health, and help them change like they want. In later seasons, they even go to USA in obesity clinics and show the health issues of morbidly obese people, like hindered wound healing and other problems which are very scary and I think showing them can make a difference in the audience. 

I think you are wrongly correlating this show to how bullies and shamers will use it. They are bullies, they'll find an excuse to cause harm to others even if they use the most good intended show/article/anything, it's irrelevant to the show itself and its value objectively. 

As I said above, you're trying too much to judge it without really watching it, you're biased and I understand that, but I really think this show is not like you describe it.


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## Robert J Gough (Dec 29, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> I think you are taking this way too personally. You're looking it from a personal PoV instead of a societal, and you make many assumptions without having watched it.
> Yes there are people like you, and me (I have Hashimoto's) who have health issues that cause them weight gain, but for the majority of society, obesity is based on lifestyle and big portions. Besides, there's no point in making a show with overweight people (and skinny) if their cause of obesity is a health issue, this is something that could be mentioned in a single episode (maybe it is I haven't watched them all). This show tries to increase awareness on portion sizes and lifestyle choices, which are the no 1 cause of weight gain in otherwise healthy people.
> I think that's where the "ban big bums" targets, it's just using a bit silly and catchy (it's still a tv show after all) way of addressing the public health issue that obesity is. Besides, the lady in season 1 that tries various fad or extreme diets is sarcastically addressing this obsession for thin image and shame for body image in general.
> 
> ...


I'm not a plus-size myself, I have no real health / food issues (aside from an addiction to caffeine that is slowly being dealt with), but I agree completely. I was about to type a similar response, then I read this.

Well said.


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## OldManRivers (Mar 22, 2012)

Bluity said:


> Shows like Biggest Loser, Extreme Makeover Weight Loss Edition, Supersized Versus Superskinny, etc.
> 
> Have any of these shows motivated you to lose weight? Or do they put you off of exercising all together? What's your opinion of them?


It surely helps the winners. $$$$$$


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## Devin87 (May 15, 2011)

OldManRivers said:


> It surely helps the winners. $$$$$$


Not sure I'd call trading money for health and mental well-being "helping".


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

snail said:


> I prefer a "Health at Every Size" approach that focuses on a healthy lifestyle rather than obsessing over weight. That is the most scientifically sound method, and it gets away from all of the body hatred.


You do realize there is a scientifically accepted weight range in what is considered healthy? "Healthy at any size" is a myth. If you are a certain amount overweight, you will suffer health affects. If if it's not something internal like heart disease or diabetes, you joints aren't designed to carry a bunch of extra weight around and it'll prematurely wear them out. Saying you can be healthy at any weight is equivalent of saying you can be a healthy drunk by consuming more than the recommended daily range of alcohol. It would be like saying you can drink a 12 pack a day as long as you eat some broccoli and jog a mile a day. It might work for some statistical outliers, but for the vast majority of people, that's not the case.

I think The Biggest Loser is a good thing. It has spurred competitions to get everyday people to lose weight. At work right now, there is a Biggest Loser competition. I am actually participating in it since I need to lose some weight. I personally have never watched the show or pretty much any of the reality shows out there (I rarely watch TV), but this show has obviously permeated into real life and I am impacted by it in a healthy way since I am currently losing weight by participating in an amateur version of the competition.


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## OldManRivers (Mar 22, 2012)

Devin87 said:


> Not sure I'd call trading money for health and mental well-being "helping".


Agreed -we had a winner in Mississippi who was taking his act on the road - "helping others, " but in reality TV even more so than newspapers yesterday's news is no news - and he flopped. Reality TV is about as real as grief from hired mourners. Emotion draws a crowd. Ratings mean money.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

PowerShell said:


> You do realize there is a scientifically accepted weight range in what is considered healthy? "Healthy at any size" is a myth. If you are a certain amount overweight, you will suffer health affects. If if it's not something internal like heart disease or diabetes, you joints aren't designed to carry a bunch of extra weight around and it'll prematurely wear them out. Saying you can be healthy at any weight is equivalent of saying you can be a healthy drunk by consuming more than the recommended daily range of alcohol. It would be like saying you can drink a 12 pack a day as long as you eat some broccoli and jog a mile a day. It might work for some statistical outliers, but for the vast majority of people, that's not the case.
> 
> I think The Biggest Loser is a good thing. It has spurred competitions to get everyday people to lose weight. At work right now, there is a Biggest Loser competition. I am actually participating in it since I need to lose some weight. I personally have never watched the show or pretty much any of the reality shows out there (I rarely watch TV), but this show has obviously permeated into real life and I am impacted by it in a healthy way since I am currently losing weight by participating in an amateur version of the competition.


People always seem to overemphasize one end of the spectrum but never the other. Do -you- realize, that its less healthy to be underweight, than even slightly overweight? Medical professionals will agree that being slightly over your healthy bmi range is safer than being -under- your healthy bmi range.

And this recent winner of TBL has even floored average laymen who don't understand this, with her obviously underweight, emaciated body. When she was 150 lbs at her final consult with the doctor appointed by tbl, she was considered healthy BY A DOCTOR. After this, she got down to 100 and some change on her own, no doubt in an unhealthy way, as I have seen documentaries on how this is done. Look for the one on youtube where the british model tries to get down to a size 0 as an example. 

When you're coming from a fat phobic perspective that "fit" = skinny as hell, you aren't talking health, just fat phobia. 

And I am inclined to agree with snail, because I know there are people who are extremely physically fit, and not skinny. One of the most fit guys I know was constantly picked on by my ex for being "a fatass" though the guy ran marathons. 

So whatever.


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Reality shows never help with anything. The producers are simply there for the money and the participants and viewers have a mediocre level of intelligence. One of the primary causes of the dumbing down of society is such degenerate entertainment.

"Hey, I'm overweight, let's sit on my fat-ass and watch a show about fat people, that will surely help." Said no one intelligent ever.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tauke said:


> Reality shows never help with anything. The producers are simply there for the money and the participants and viewers have a mediocre level of intelligence. One of the primary causes of the dumbing down of society is such degenerate entertainment.
> 
> "Hey, I'm overweight, let's sit on my fat-ass and watch a show about fat people, that will surely help." Said no one intelligent ever.


Or maybe they'll watch it and decide to do something about it. Why so black and white? As if there isn't enough time in the day to do both.


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> Or maybe they'll watch it and decide to do something about it. Why so black and white? As if there isn't enough time in the day to do both.


If you need to get your motivation from a reality tv show instead of for the good of your health and the collective good of society then perhaps you should consider removing yourself from this world.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tauke said:


> If you need to get your motivation from a reality tv show instead of for the good of your health and the collective good of society then perhaps you should consider removing yourself from this world.


Some reality shows, like Supersize vs Superskinny are about health. Many people are just oblivious to the health problems caused by obesity and shows like this one can help. 

Also why so offensive? Trolling much?


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## Bluity (Nov 12, 2012)

Food for thought:

UAlberta researchers find depiction of workouts in extreme weight-loss TV fuels negative attitudes about exercise. 'The Biggest Loser' a big turnoff - News & Events - University of Alberta



> "The depictions of exercise on shows like The Biggest Loser are really negative," said lead author Tanya Berry, Canada Research Chair in Physical Activity Promotion. "People are screaming and crying and throwing up, and if you're not a regular exerciser you might think this is what exercise is -- that it's this horrible experience where you have to push yourself to the extremes and the limits, which is completely wrong."
> ...
> 
> Berry said the results debunk the belief held by some researchers and many in the popular media that shows like The Biggest Loser can be motivational and get people off the couch. In fact, the negative portrayals of exercise are counterproductive to public health campaigns.


What I find interesting about these weight loss shows is how insidiously, and almost maliciously, family members enable their loved ones to eat. Stocking the cupboards with only healthy food seems easy, but when the contestant is trying to eat salad when the whole family is gouging on burgers and fries, or when a spouse tries feed someone philly cheesesteak right after gastric bypass surgery, you can understand how hard it is for some people to lose weight.


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> Some reality shows, like Supersize vs Superskinny are about health. Many people are just oblivious to the health problems caused by obesity and shows like this one can help.
> 
> Also why so offensive? Trolling much?


Yes of course, someone doesn't agree with you; must be trolling!


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tauke said:


> Yes of course, someone doesn't agree with you; must be trolling!


I was referring to your offensiveness, you're the one who dodged my answer now. Whatever.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Tauke said:


> If you need to get your motivation from a reality tv show instead of for the good of your health and the collective good of society then perhaps you should consider removing yourself from this world.


It would seem that some high school educated "intellectuals" have no way of proving how much more intelligent they are than everyone else, without damning easy targets in popular culture, like reality tv and lady gaga for example. 

After a philosophy 101 course at the local community college, it might evolve into randomly pointing out logical fallacies, and arguing over what Nietzsche _really_ meant.

I get it, I get it - but toning down the aggressiveness of the faux conviction bit might make it appear more smooth in delivery. Actual intellectuals just have better things to care about than whether or not people should be watching the biggest loser.


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> I was referring to your offensiveness, you're the one who dodged my answer now. Whatever.


I wasn't being offensive; I was merely expressing my opinion. And for that you accused me of being a troll.



Promethea said:


> It would seem that some high school educated "intellectuals" have no way of proving how much more intelligent they are than everyone else, without damning easy targets in popular culture, like reality tv and lady gaga for example.
> 
> After a philosophy 101 course at the local community college, it might evolve into randomly pointing out logical fallacies, and arguing over what Nietzsche _really_ meant.
> 
> I get it, I get it - but toning down the aggressiveness of the faux conviction bit might make it appear more smooth in delivery. Actual intellectuals just have better things to care about than whether or not people should be watching the biggest loser.



You did a nice job of insuring yourself from what is coming now, but I'm going to have to say it: Nice argumenta ad hominem. Also some nice assumptions. Very classy.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tauke said:


> I wasn't being offensive; I was merely expressing my opinion. And for that you accused me of being a troll.


Telling someone they should consider removing themselves from the world because they don't appeal to your worldview sure was not intended to offend.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Tauke said:


> I wasn't being offensive; I was merely expressing my opinion. And for that you accused me of being a troll.
> 
> You did a nice job of insuring yourself from what is coming now, but I'm going to have to say it: Nice argumenta ad hominem. Also some nice assumptions.


"Ppl who get motivation from reality tv shud die!!1" 

Yeah, because *that* was such an intelligent position in a debate, worthy of a genuine, well thought out response. 

Internet "intjs" these days. *smh*


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> Telling someone they should consider removing themselves from the world because they don't appeal to your worldview sure was not intended to offend.


I never said that they should remove themselves from the world because they don't appeal to my worldview. And this might be a surprise to you, but different cultures have different interpretations of what's offensive. So no I wasn't being offensive.



Promethea said:


> "Ppl who get motivation from reality tv shud die!!1"
> 
> Yeah, because *that* was such an intelligent position in a debate, worthy of a genuine, well thought out response.
> 
> Internet "intjs" these days. *smh*



Mmm, your straw man arguments taste sweet. Anyway, for you I'll change my MBTI to ESFP.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tauke said:


> I never said that they should remove themselves from the world because they don't appeal to my worldview. And this might be a surprise to you, but different cultures have different interpretations of what's offensive. So no I wasn't being offensive.


Your worldview is that if people need motivation from a tv show they better die already. That's what you said, and that's a worldview. 
But please tell me in which culture this wouldn't be intended to offend.


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> Your worldview is that if people need motivation from a tv show they better die already. That's what you said, and that's a worldview.


Nope, I never said that. Try again.



Red Panda said:


> But please tell me in which culture this wouldn't be intended to offend.


Dutch culture is one of them.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Tauke said:


> I never said that they should remove themselves from the world because they don't appeal to my worldview. And this might be a surprise to you, but
> 
> *different cultures have different interpretations of what's offensive*.
> 
> *So no I wasn't being offensive*.


Fallacy of the converse. Rofl.


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Promethea said:


> Fallacy of the converse. Rofl.


I was going to rephrase that but I assumed you'd understand it. My apologies. Allow me to rephrase: I did not _intend_ to be offensive.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tauke said:


> Nope, I never said that. Try again.


Maybe you should consider more what you said and its significance. 
For example, instead of accepting that any kind of motivation is better than none, you deny the good and say it's better if they kill themselves. Which is a worldview.


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> Maybe you should consider more what you said and its significance.
> For example, instead of accepting that any kind of motivation is better than none, you deny the good and say it's better if they kill themselves. Which is a worldview.


This is what I said:



> If you need to get your motivation from a reality tv show instead of for the good of your health and the collective good of society then perhaps you should consider removing yourself from this world.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

which is the same as I say...


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> which is the same as I say...


Nope, you imply that I said that _any_ person who gets his motivation from a reality tv show should remove himself from this world. The important context here is '_instead of for the good of your health and the collective good of society_'.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tauke said:


> Nope, you imply that I said that _any_ person who gets his motivation from a reality tv show should remove himself from this world. The important context here is '_instead of for the good of your health and the collective good of society_'.



No I don't imply anything other than what you say. Think about it better. You believe that if someone does not have enough motivation (so they need it from tv shows) to change their lives simply to be healthier should just die. There's no middle option in your worldview. I'm not going to comment any more for that as this is going off-topic.

As I said earlier, most people are completely ignorant of health problems, or even where their organs are, plus it's very common psychologically for people to feel invincible. Jane Ogden in "Psychology of Health" describes these and very nicely. Shows that are focused on health, like the one I mentioned before may have a very positive impact on motivating people to change. So no, it's not black and white as you claim.


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> No I don't imply anything other than what you say. Think about it better. You believe that if someone does not have enough motivation (so they need it from tv shows) to change their lives simply to be healthier should just die. There's no middle option in your worldview. I'm not going to comment any more for that as this is going off-topic.
> 
> As I said earlier, most people are completely ignorant of health problems, or even where their organs are, plus it's very common psychologically for people to feel invincible. Jane Ogden in "Psychology of Health" describes these and very nicely. Shows that are focused on health, like the one I mentioned before may have a very positive impact on motivating people to change. So no, it's not black and white as you claim.


I never claimed it to be black and white. I merely expressed my opinion that if you are not motivated for the greater good of society nor for your own health but only by a tv show then you obviously don't care about society suffering from your problem.
Society cannot use such people, and if you do not care about your own health either on top of that then you might as well remove yourself from this world.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Tauke said:


> I never claimed it to be black and white. I merely expressed my opinion that if you are not motivated for the greater good of society nor for your own health but only by a tv show then you obviously don't care about society suffering from your problem.
> Society cannot use such people, and if you do not care about your own health either on top of that then you might as well remove yourself from this world.


Except it's much, much more complex than that. You can't have society practically creating addictions for people then ask them to deny what you've been giving them and change themselves. Fast food, convenience, sugar everywhere, caloric bombs etc and removing opportunities for exercise. Intensive agriculture and farming for grains and meat, etc, etc. Those are powerful forces that took decades to build and it's society. 

Your opinion screams to me that you haven't really taken the time to read about obesity, not as a physiological condition but psychological and from a public health perspective. 

Besides, if they use a tv show to become aware of health issues why does it matter that it was a tv show and not something else? Does it really matter where anyone will get their motivation from?


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## Tauke (Feb 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> Except it's much, much more complex than that. You can't have society practically creating addictions for people then ask them to deny what you've been giving them and change themselves. Fast food, convenience, sugar everywhere, caloric bombs etc and removing opportunities for exercise. Intensive agriculture and farming for grains and meat, etc, etc. Those are powerful forces that took decades to build and it's society.
> 
> Your opinion screams to me that you haven't really taken the time to read about obesity, not as a physiological condition but psychological and from a public health perspective.
> 
> Besides, if they use a tv show to become aware of health issues why does it matter that it was a tv show and not something else? Does it really matter where anyone will get their motivation from?


Of course, personal problems are almost always also societal problems. Fast food and other degeneracy should be heavily taxed and strictly regulated, in case of my home country nothing needs to be changed about the infrastructure since we have an all-encompassing cycle lane system so that is already free exercise. However in countries like the US the infrastructure is based around cars and not bicycles or pedestrians, that doesn't help with the obesity of course.


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## Devin87 (May 15, 2011)

How about instead of taxing and regulating (live free or die) we actually start teaching people HOW to be healthy. Stop telling people to cut fat and eat lots of "heart healthy whole grains" and maybe they'll have a fighting chance. Many fat people have tried dieting, but the traditional low fat/high carb diet doesn't work. All it does is turn our body's chemistry against us to the point you seize up, start holding on to every ounce of fat at the expense of muscle and good tissue, and starve on the cellular level without losing a pound until finally you can't take it anymore and give your body what it wants.

Start giving good diet advice as a society and we can start expecting it to actually work. Keep giving the same failing advice we've been giving since the obesity epidemic started and we'll keep failing.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Promethea said:


> People always seem to overemphasize one end of the spectrum but never the other. Do -you- realize, that its less healthy to be underweight, than even slightly overweight? Medical professionals will agree that being slightly over your healthy bmi range is safer than being -under- your healthy bmi range.


Like I stated before, there is a healthy range. Typically that range has a 40 pound difference between the low and high. Depending on the circumstances, such as if the person lifts a lot of weights or are naturally skinny, their weight may deviate this range a bit but typically a healthy person's weight should be extremely far from either of the ranges.




> And I am inclined to agree with snail, because I know there are people who are extremely physically fit, and not skinny. One of the most fit guys I know was constantly picked on by my ex for being "a fatass" though the guy ran marathons.


And there are *some* people who are bigger and are more physically fit than most people. The thing is the vast majority of big people aren't in that great of physical shape. I'm also not talking about people who are a little chubby. I'm referring to people who are massively overweight and are now in the ranks of obesity.


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## Cher Zee (Feb 15, 2012)

Oh gosh, I caught some episodes of a show called My 600lb Life and they made me very sad.

Basically, it highlights one person as they lose weight - through surgery. But it's sad to see how many of those people got that way. Heck, one even showed a woman eating fast food on her WAY to get the surgery. You just know those people are looking for a quick fix and will gain it all back. 

I wish there was something that would show a healthy weight loss. There was one called Discovery Health Challenge. It was a long time ago but I still remember some of the eating tips etc. And people lost weight gradually, were shown how to shop, how to exercise properly, what to avoid and were taught things that actually helped them. Of course that makes for no drama, so instead we get crap like The Biggest Loser. 

Sigh.


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## Bluity (Nov 12, 2012)

Cher_to_the_Z said:


> Oh gosh, I caught some episodes of a show called My 600lb Life and they made me very sad.
> 
> Basically, it highlights one person as they lose weight - through surgery. But it's sad to see how many of those people got that way. Heck, one even showed a woman eating fast food on her WAY to get the surgery. You just know those people are looking for a quick fix and will gain it all back.


600lb Life highlights how important a support system is, or lack thereof. So many family members eat fatty foods in front of their loved ones. The person losing weight is surrounded by temptation and no one tries to accommodate them.

It's interesting to see how weight loss patients rationalize their setbacks. They snack all day and wonder why they gained weight. Or they claim it's water weight, or muscle. Or they lower their standards. I can this psychological blindspot in myself.



> I wish there was something that would show a healthy weight loss. There was one called Discovery Health Challenge. It was a long time ago but I still remember some of the eating tips etc. And people lost weight gradually, were shown how to shop, how to exercise properly, what to avoid and were taught things that actually helped them. Of course that makes for no drama, so instead we get crap like The Biggest Loser.


At this point there are no fitness tips that one has not seen before. Eat whole foods, lose the sugary drinks, eat lean meats, walk daily, exercise... news segments and public awareness campaigns harp the same generic themes. Unless someone's been living under a rock these shows aren't teaching them anything new. Thus, we see the extreme. Morbidly obese. Dangerous exercise methods. Screaming trainers. No one wants to watch a woman lose a measly 30 pounds, she has to be over 500 and bedbound before she gets a show.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

I don't like reality show regardless of the subject, but I have watched some Dr Oz and have integrated some of his advise on weightloss like eating barely any calories after 3pm and drinking carob (hot coco) to clean arteries and using cinnamon when eating carbs to help level out the blood glucose. I've lost 40 lbs by having my biggest meals of the day around lunch time or sometimes breakfast depending on how much time I have that day.

I don't like the fat-shaming. One show I did like watching which wasn't a reality show was called Huge and it was about fat camp. It is a good show. Becca SOooo reminded me of me when I was that age, but she is more social.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Oh wait! There was another show called something... wait I'll rememeber it. Ruby?! Did you see it? It is about a woman who was 500 + lbs living in Savannah. I actually liked that show a lot. I think she might be an ESFP. She seems like a very nice person; the type of person I'd want to meet and have a chat with.


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## Cher Zee (Feb 15, 2012)

> 600lb Life highlights how important a support system is, or lack thereof. So many family members eat fatty foods in front of their loved ones. The person losing weight is surrounded by temptation and no one tries to accommodate them.
> .


That's what I noticed about that 600lb show too! There were always enablers - family members who gave the person exactly what they wanted. Oftentimes the doctor would be frustrated because the patient wasn't losing weight and it was assumed the family was sneaking food into the hospital. 

Weird co-dependent relationships on that show for sure. 



> Oh wait! There was another show called something... wait I'll rememeber it. Ruby?! Did you see it? It is about a woman who was 500 + lbs living in Savannah. I actually liked that show a lot. I think she might be an ESFP. She seems like a very nice person; the type of person I'd want to meet and have a chat with.


I remember that lady. She was pretty and oh so Southern. Don't know what ever happened to her or if the show is still on. I remember she couldn't remember anything under the age of 13. Interesting how abuse seems to play a big part in severely obese people.


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## Curiously (Nov 7, 2011)

They haven't given me impetus to lose weight as I haven't had a major weight problem to begin with, but they serve as a cautionary reminder of how it's possible for an individual, including me, to pack on the pounds by neglecting the importance of good diet and exercise. I don't think there's a huge gulf between morbidly obese people and me because I have used food to comfort myself and I've dealt with an eating disorder before. So if anything, I tend to relate any kind of weight problem/issue as a manifestation of something deeper, emotionally and psychologically. I don't tune into those shows though. I've probably only tuned into 15-20 minutes of TBL once and briefly tried to watch that BBC show.


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## Bluity (Nov 12, 2012)

Cher_to_the_Z said:


> That's what I noticed about that 600lb show too! There were always enablers - family members who gave the person exactly what they wanted. Oftentimes the doctor would be frustrated because the patient wasn't losing weight and it was assumed the family was sneaking food into the hospital.
> 
> Weird co-dependent relationships on that show for sure.


Not just 600lb life. On Extreme Makeover Weight Loss edition, family members get into hissy fits when they're not allowed to keep candy and cookies in the cupboards because the person wants only to be surrounded by healthy foods. It comes off very entitled. "I don't care if this is a life and death situation for you. I want to eat when I want where I want, your health be dammed."

Also - and this is something I've seen in real life - a person can eat clean for a day or so before friends and family claim they're starving themselves and "need" a treat. They, sometimes literally, try to stuff chocolate or a snack to the person's lips. They act as if the person will die unless they eat a burger. Food is a symptom for a larger problem that affects the whole family.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Bluity said:


> At this point there are no fitness tips that one has not seen before. Eat whole foods, lose the sugary drinks, eat lean meats, walk daily, exercise... news segments and public awareness campaigns harp the same generic themes. Unless someone's been living under a rock these shows aren't teaching them anything new. Thus, we see the extreme. Morbidly obese. Dangerous exercise methods. Screaming trainers. No one wants to watch a woman lose a measly 30 pounds, she has to be over 500 and bedbound before she gets a show.


So a reality that isn't at all realistic for most people? :wink:


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