# ENTP is the real opposite of ISFP



## uncertain (May 26, 2012)

When it comes to opposite type, there are two general opinions I find on this forum. A is opposite four-letter code, such as ISFP-ENTJ. B is seeing it in terms of functions, which is ISFP-INTP:

ISFP　　Fi-Se-Ni-Te-Fe-Si-Ne-Ti
INTP　　Ti-Ne-Si-Fe-Te-Ni-Se-Fi

But in both theories the two opposing types have something in common. ISFP and ENTJ share functions, while ISFP and INTP share two letters which are IP, and I think IPs in real life can have lots of similar traits.

So I came up with a third one the other day for whatever reason: ISFP and ENTP. It considers things more from the function viewpoint:
ISFP　　Fi-Se-Ni-Te-Fe-Si-Ne-Ti
ENTP　 Ne-Ti-Fe-Si-Ni-Te-Fi-Se

Not only do the two types not share any function, but their functions are fundamentally more different. One is judgement lead, another one perception lead. One is introverted, another one extroverted. With ISFP and INTP it's Fi-Se and Ti-Ne. Both are Introverted judging - extraverted perceiving.

Then when you look at it from the four-letter code, the two types share only the P.

This can be applied to other pairings. Sure the two types can still have things in common but at least my pairing is more different then the other two.

What do you think?


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## goamare (Feb 27, 2014)

This may sound banal to you, but I'd say ENTJ is furthest apart from ISFP.

I guess you would say "they share the same functions though." Well my answer is they don't, really.

From what I read, the definition of the inferior function (for example) was not "what you HAVE," but rather closer to "what is repressed, what you LACK."

Therefore they don't "SHARE" the same functions.


My advise is - forget the functions, just focus on the dichotomies.


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

@reckful has addressed this in quite a lot of detail.

Essentially their is no real world evidence that supports what you have proposed, nor nothing that says functions must be in that order.


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## reptilian (Aug 5, 2014)

I think Ne-Ti vs Fi-Se is more aware of each others "incorrect way" of looking on life. It sees the other system as inefficient or undervalued, sort of like there is something wrong with the person and its pretty obvious that is not how someone should think or live.

While Ni-Te vs Fi-Se is more about looking into each others flaws. They can understand each other well but can see on how they should be corrected since the functions are on the opposite specter only working as a counterbalance.

The information exchange is not well received in my opinion either way. How we decrypt information each other is trying to present as a judgment will always be seen incorrect or misunderstood usually just enforcing its own process of making judgments.


Edit: There is a deep evolutionary background as to why people have different manipulation tactics. If we include the primitive sexual impulses of sensory pleasure the Pe-Fi would be the most successful in tact when in emotional interaction as pure logic is badly defined in a primitive state (within the human evolution chain history). While each function has its own inner problem solving skills mechanism it also has inner drives. These inner drives also balance at which strength the extrovert-introvert relations people face when trying to understand each other. People also trigger mirror neurons, if they are better at emotional manipulation (Fi) the recipient of will be more likely to obtain the manipulation, and if its feeling or thinking system is out of balance or the manipulator is at a higher state of power and knowledge, self confidence included, the person being manipulated successfully will in turn become introverted and in use of the the manipulators control/(close)conscious functions.

U see, each pairing has its weaknesses, the ENTP can also tactfully gain the trust of ISFP but each subject approaches different in facing a problem. There is always a possibility of an ENTP and ISFP perfect couple but will need to try and use unconscious functions in order to understand what each feels or thinks. By average in statistic I would say people are not grown up enough to understand how its own ego works, humans thinks they have superiority in managing its inner world and wants to enforce it by force, so the interactions shouldn't go smooth. Each can part in its own sorrow or guilt.

Ne,Ti logic is not easy to follow as it wants to be constructed by pure intuitive logic via connections of deeper knowledge on a matter. Se,Fi wants to know the world through deeply experienced whole, it trusts what he believes is true from sensory data.
In order to develop ones functions it must not include Perceptions gained through other than naturally included function mechanisms. And the introverted judging system (Ji) has to see the world through its own vision. There are ways one can use both by being in cognitive dissonance not knowing what one truly thinks or feels. Although this may be good to have in some situations... what the brain truly wants to develop is its Ego function and not Superego - which is forced upon society. Unless there is a switch in a human during its early functions development time, evolving into a new type as genes can allow that in certain cases.

Conclusion: 2 strong and healthy enneagram type x or y ENTP and ISFP can go perfect together by each being in its own inner world and not wanting to have conflict. That though does not prevent conflict from happening in real wold practice, e.g. each type will see each other as either pushy or neglecting... etc
They will experience deep misunderstandings since their functions are incorrectly deciphered since other ones are repressed due to egos needs.


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## Tucken (Dec 13, 2009)

I dont think ENTJ is my opposite. More like its my shadow, that I like to bring out. Thus I am ISFP-ENTJ. The real opposite is all the leftist intellectuals, meaning intellectual in the sense of talking about concepts, living by mind, and being jealous and miserable all the time. The socialists, communists, revolutionaries, false anarchists, feminists and many more


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## Revolver Ocelot (Feb 25, 2015)

uncertain said:


> When it comes to opposite type, there are two general opinions I find on this forum. A is opposite four-letter code, such as ISFP-ENTJ. B is seeing it in terms of functions, which is ISFP-INTP:
> 
> ISFP　　Fi-Se-Ni-Te-Fe-Si-Ne-Ti
> INTP　　Ti-Ne-Si-Fe-Te-Ni-Se-Fi
> ...


Yes, this is well known already. In Socionics it's called conflicting relations. You can read more about it here:

Socionics - the16types.info - Conflict Relations
Conflicting relations between psychological ("personality") types

The opposite four letter codes (for example, ISFP and ENTJ) is a duality rather than conflicting relations. Duality is supposedly a good thing.

To convert the Socionics types to MBTI, for the introvert types switch the P to a J or vice versa. The extrovert types remain the same.


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)

hmmm. Maybe? Seems a little too abstract to me still though, Opposite insinuates we're alike but do thinks completely different. You're theory insinuates we're not even alike at all. Weird.


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## The Dude (May 20, 2010)

uncertain said:


> When it comes to opposite type, there are two general opinions I find on this forum. A is opposite four-letter code, such as ISFP-ENTJ. B is seeing it in terms of functions, which is ISFP-INTP:
> 
> ISFP　　Fi-Se-Ni-Te-Fe-Si-Ne-Ti
> INTP　　Ti-Ne-Si-Fe-Te-Ni-Se-Fi
> ...


To be completely honest, this makes zero sense. The opposite of an ISFP is ESFJ according to type dynamics, which is a whole other story.


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## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

goamare said:


> This may sound banal to you, but I'd say ENTJ is furthest apart from ISFP.
> 
> I guess you would say "they share the same functions though." Well my answer is they don't, really.
> 
> ...


Also @_reckful_ .

How to forget the functions? I feel like they've...clouded my judgement. Not to mention that I find them to be highly confining. Besides, I'll have to something besides, but do focus on that one, by all means.

Also, you say "what is REPRESSED, what you LACK". Repressed != Lack of something. On the contrary indeed! When you repress something, it still exists. NITPICKING YAY!


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Ixim said:


> Also @_reckful_ .
> 
> How to forget the functions?


A year ago there was a thread that asked, "What type is most different from INFP?" — and the OP noted that "To the uninformed it might seem like ESTJ," but then reminded everybody that INFPs and ESTJs actually have _the same four functions_.

And I know nobody likes to click on links, so I've considerately pasted my reply in the spoiler. :tongue:


* *




Functions, schmunctions. The notion that INFPs and ESTJs have the same functions (albeit in reverse order) is inconsistent with both Jung and Myers (as further explained here) and has no respectable body of evidence behind it.

There are decades of MBTI data pools establishing the validity of the dichotomies by demonstrating statistically significant (and sometimes very dramatic) correlations between the dichotomies (and various dichotomy combinations) and lots of personality manifestations (internal and behavioral both).

And here's the main point, for purposes of this thread: Virtually every time the correlations put people with one or more MBTI preferences at one end of the relevant spectrum, you know who's at the other end? The people with the opposite preference or preferences.

As one close-to-home but dramatic example, the spoiler has June 2013 membership stats for PerC.


* *




INFP	3723 — 21%
INFJ	2580 — 15%
INTP	2228 — 13%
INTJ	1876 — 11%
ENFP	1352 — 8%
ENTP	1112 — 6%
ENFJ	514 — 3%
ISTP	527 — 3%
ISFP	506 — 3%
ISTJ	437 — 2%
ENTJ	401 — 2%
ISFJ	314 — 2%
ESTP	159 — 1%
ESFJ	102 — 1%
ESFP	117 — 1%
ESTJ	97 — 1%



Who's at the top? The INs. And they're 60% of the PerC population, even though they're only around 12% of the general population (according to the official MBTI folks).

And who's at the bottom? The ESs — just as you should expect (since they're the dichotomous opposites of the INs). And they're only 4% of the PerC population (vs. 34% of the general population).

And if you analyze those same stats from a functions perspective? Well, the INs are obviously a dramatically tidy foursome from a dichotomy-centric perspective, but they supposedly have three different dominant functions (Ni, Ti and Fi). Good luck coming up with any _function-based_ set of influences on personality-forum membership that seems to account for much of the variation in those PerC stats.

But so what, you might say. Maybe personality-forum membership just happens to be one of those things that's dichotomy-related but not particularly function-related.

To which I'd reply: OK, but... if INFPs and ESTJs are both "Fi/Te" types and "Si/Ne" types, and if being an Fi/Te type or Si/Ne type corresponds to some significant real-world stuff, then there should be at least _some_ data pools where Fi/Te vs. Fe/Ti (and/or Si/Ne vs. Se/Ni) turn out to be the main influential factors, and the ESTJs and INFPs are together on one side of the spectrum and the INFJs and ESTPs are together on the other side.

And the thing is ... are y'all listening? (*drum roll*) ... there really _aren't any_ data pools like that.

And that's because the Harold Grant function model (where INFP=Fi-Ne-Si-Te) is bogus — as is _any_ model that would lead you to predict that, if you take Person A and flip _two_ of their MBTI preferences, the result will be someone who's _more like Person A_ (in some significant MBTI-related respects) than if you'd only flipped _one_ of those two preferences.

And again, that lack of data pools wouldn't have surprised either Jung or Myers, because that weird double-flip expectation isn't really consistent with either of their type models.

So, in conclusion...

*Q:* What type is most different from INFP?

*A:* ESTJ.


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## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

reckful said:


> A year ago there was a thread that asked, "What type is most different from INFP?" — and the OP noted that "To the uninformed it might seem like ESTJ," but then reminded everybody that INFPs and ESTJs actually have _the same four functions_.
> 
> And I know nobody likes to click on links, so I've considerately pasted my reply in the spoiler. :tongue:
> 
> ...


You certainly did your part. Now I only have to find someone who will tell me the method(not reason) on how to forget these vile things. Maybe it'll be useful in some other endeavour in the future, who knows?

And then there is the part where I am supposed to bypass the subjectivity bias and FINALLY find my type(perhaps I should look to the past for that, hm)-even if that means INTJ lol! This part'll be the hardest I feel.

But hey! At least I've got a roadmap :wink: .


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

Ixim said:


> You certainly did your part. Now I only have to find someone who will tell me the method(not reason) on how to forget these vile things. Maybe it'll be useful in some other endeavour in the future, who knows?
> 
> And then there is the part where I am supposed to bypass the subjectivity bias and FINALLY find my type(perhaps I should look to the past for that, hm)-even if that means INTJ lol! This part'll be the hardest I feel.
> 
> But hey! At least I've got a roadmap :wink: .


Well one method for forgetting would be to drink yourself to oblivion. Not necessarily a permanent form of forgetting but will do the job for a short period of time. The more permanent way would be to take a hammer to the head. No guarantee you'll forget those vile things or something else more essential, but definitely more permanent.



Unfortunately I don't think looking to the past will help and will only be full of bias. We humans are very bad at remembering exactly how events happened, often our own world view colours the memory and our brains often can change the memory itself (notice how someone telling a good story over time changes becoming more exaggerated? Or someone may borrow something and over time believe that thing was always theirs? Even looking at two people in an argument, call them out on their mistakes and they may deny that they ever made the mistake. I'm not talking about these things being done on purpose, I'm talking about genuine mistakes where the person believes these things because they 'remember' in such great detail).


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## Jippa Jonken (Jul 20, 2015)

goamare said:


> This may sound banal to you, but I'd say ENTJ is furthest apart from ISFP.
> 
> I guess you would say "they share the same functions though." Well my answer is they don't, really.
> 
> ...


Mostly agreed. I wouldn't say forget the functions though. Without them, jungian typology is at best a poor Big 5 substitute. Rather, we must think of the "shadow functions" as increasingly integrated functions (like aux/tert are less dramatically opposed than dom/inf), being less and less differentiated with the inverse duality of dom/inf being basically one single function. In the ISFP, for example, this would mean Ti/Fe is the most balanced and integrated, and the same goes for ENTJ. These people have no conflict between Ti and Fe, meaning those functions are not differentiated. The private and public sphere are harmonized. Si and Ne are also very well balanced, but not quite as balanced. ISFP and ENTJ remain opposite despite having the same "fulcrum". Or maybe typology doesn't have real opposites at all.

Fi-Se-Ne-Ti/Fe-Si-Ni-Te for ISFP and backwards for ENTJ. 

Me as an ENTP i lean heavily toward the controversial and novel (Ne) and have little patience with traditions and routine (Si) but in terms of abstract (Ni) versus concrete (Se), there is no value conflict and i hardly even distinguish them. I effortlessly joint them just like IxFP or ExTJ effortlessly joints the private and the public interest. Perhaps the integration of the dom/inf inverse duality is the real strength of each type. Ni-doms balance Ne&Si, this is something i noticed before coming up with this analysis. Fe-doms and Ti-doms balance authenticity (Fi) and getting shit done (Te) seems intuitively true aswell... Maybe this is just in my head lol.

The problem is sussing out how the inverse of aux/tert are aligned. It's rather arbitrary. For example, in the row for ISFP above, maybe Ne and Si should switch place. My gut tells me ISFP has Ne first, but in analytical terms it's arbitrary. Either it is two Pe functions in a row or two S functions in a row. It could be solved by postulating a minor conflict that is "in resonance" and "delocalized" so that these two functions aren't fully integrated but don't have a fixed priority either. Sort of like a stabilizing electron cloud of human consciousness. That's appealing.

Just an idea i played around with.


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## misfortuneteller (Apr 4, 2015)

I find it odd how Fe/Ti users nearly always get on but Te/Fi have a love/hate relationship. Like for ex: a Fi dom may envy a Te dom but they would feel like a sell out if they ever became like them and Te doms often look down on Fi doms cause we are whiney and don't have much direction. Te doms are like that kid in class that loves to the answer the question ''what do you want to be when you're older?'' and I hated that question.


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