# INTJ type two depression



## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

Ni-Fi looping. Unhealthy type one, extremely unhealthy type two. Needy, lonely depression that I don't know what to do with, how to express or elaborate upon, and don't know how to begin fixing.

I've stopped posting in my regular places for a couple of days now to try and sort things out internally, but haven't been able to make any improvement.

Sorry, just needed to get this off my chest somewhere.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

(Accidental double post)


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

jeb713 said:


> Ni-Fi looping. Unhealthy type one, extremely unhealthy type two. Needy, lonely depression that I don't know what to do with, how to express or elaborate upon, and don't know how to begin fixing.
> 
> I've stopped posting in my regular places for a couple of days now to try and sort things out internally, but haven't been able to make any improvement.
> 
> Sorry, just needed to get this off my chest somewhere.


What's on your mind exactly?


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## Lemxn (Aug 17, 2013)

If you want to tell us more about your situation, I would be glad to read you and give my advice. I have experience in depressed INTJs and their loops.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

For what it's worth, I've read some of your posts in the INTJ forum and I enjoyed them. They seem thoughtful, insightful, and interesting. I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling depressed. 

I think that Fi/Te might have some weird relationship with self-judgment...which might interact with a type one "feeling tarnished" or a type two identity issue. But...I don't really know. Either way, I still want to express that your posts have brightened my evenings at times, and I hope that getting it off your chest will help.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

Bugs said:


> What's on your mind exactly?





Lemxn said:


> If you want to tell us more about your situation, I would be glad to read you and give my advice. I have experience in depressed INTJs and their loops.


I wouldn't even know where to begin. I'm looping about everything. Family, friends, relationships, work, money, future, grad school, the weather, myself, the VA, PerC. I'm just kind of at a loss. I'll start with the most pressing issue, I suppose.

I spend so much time trying to do my best for others. People have always felt like they could open up to me and share all their secrets and thoughts and frustrations. I don't know why, but they do. I ask them questions and try to figure them out as a person - their motivations, feelings, desires. I help them with problems if they have them and provide genuine support. I don't ask for anything in return, because I don't think I should have to. Sometimes after a while people will say, "you're such a mystery," or they'll wonder, "How were you able to figure me out?" Well, I was interested in something other than myself and I listened and put in effort. People don't seem to do this for me in any form of relationship that I've had. I don't think I've ever felt strongly connected to another person aside from whatever closeness I could achieve by being able to help someone. If someone actually does take an interest in me, its usually short lasting and they move on or it seems like they're only asking to be polite on the surface. I was neglected and emotionally abused growing up - its something that I had to talk to a therapist about for a while, and when they finally convinced me that I needed to approach my parents about this, it ended up making everything worse. I told them that I'd never felt loved and that I had joined the military because I was afraid to ask for help, and that the things they've said and done to me have hurt and impacted me negatively. They told me that it was my fault (one of their go-to responses to me), and that I need to get over it because I'm not the only one who has problems. The conflict comes from a place of wanting some sort of connection with people, but I am just kind of scared and apprehensive not only because I'm an introvert and don't want to put myself out there but because of all my past experiences with people and growing up. Friends will consistently do things that just make me feel like I never mattered to them at all. A couple times I've had people who I had known for a couple years and considered one of my better friends just up and move to another state without telling me. I'd find out months later when I would ask someone else where my friend disappeared to because I hadn't been able to get in contact with them. One of my friends came over to my house last year to see if they could take my dog to a party with our mutual friends and didn't even ask if I wanted to join >.> Relationships make even less sense to me. It doesn't seem to matter if I've broken up with them or they with me, but my exes still make lots of effort to stay a part of my life, have me solve their problems, and will try to get me to still carry on a sexual relationship with them. One of my exes is flying out to visit me next week (I just moved several states away about 9 months ago) and I don't really know what she is thinking. Lately the dating pool just confuses me beyond belief. I'm tired of being rejected for being a great guy. What is that? This is literally what the last five or so people have done. I've heard, "you're perfect for me and I don't know what I'd do without you in my life, but I've come to the realization that I'm not ready for a relationship (even though they approached me for one) and might never be. Perhaps I'll get cats." 

Sorry for rambling, my thoughts are so disorganized right now. I just wanted to pick the topic that was bothering me the most (people) and give a couple examples to paint a small picture of what was going on.


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## Lemxn (Aug 17, 2013)

Sometimes being lost is the rightthingto do to find the right path at the end.


You as an INTJ will find very much difficult to connect with someone so deeply, it could take you years. From my experience and for the INTJs I know. You don't need nothing in return because you already believe you are in your own, so lonely because nobody tried to get you, never. You helping people is the most common situation for you, and you took that role in your life since now...because now you started to wonder and think "Hey, I don't want to die alone". Relationship can't never last forever, sometimes when we think that we find the "truly" friend, they sudenly dissapear like if they never excited, like an illution.

Again, you as an INTJ...trying that you family be supportive or understand what you feel...just forget it...it is already difficult to people in general to understand the nature of INTJs. INTJs and family were never a good match.



> I've heard, "you're perfect for me and I don't know what I'd do without you in my life, but I've come to the realization that I'm not ready for a relationship (even though they approached me for one) and might never be. Perhaps I'll get cats."


This is of course, bullshit that people say to not be honest. Women in general have a big problem on having duchbags and leaving the good guys only to have them as friends or just to fuck. 


You need to start accepting what you have, and what do you not have, what do you want and what do you NOT want, if you are going to be the good guy be it for yourself and process that. Oh, and accept that you are different too.

Be lost because it is what you need to be right now, you need to feel confuse until you will see everything so much clear.


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## Alethea (Apr 20, 2014)

@jeb713. "I don't ask for anything in return because I don't think I should have to". 
Would you be comfortable with people trying to understand you? Or is that scary on some level?

On some level, do you think you take interest in others because that is safer than being open and vulnerable? 

I ask because (I also dealt with emotional abuse as a child) and tho closeness is wanted on a deep level, it can also be scary thus putting up defense mechanisms we may or may not be aware of. Maybe this is not true in your case....

What would being truly connected to someone look and feel like to you? 

When someone is interested in you, how far have you been willing to let them in?

*hugs. I'm sorry you were dealing with this. I put these questions here but if you are not comfortable responding here.... Understood. 
I would be happy to listen if want to pm me, or will send happy thoughts your way if you decide to keep it to yourself. 



Know thyself


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

At least @jeb713 recognizes this looping depression. My best friend is an INTJ and he gets this way at times. It's a bitch to snap him out of it.


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## Alethea (Apr 20, 2014)

@jeb317. 

My parents said something similar to me. I finally made peace with that issue after I told them the things that I was hurt by, then (and this is the important part) I began to protect and take care of myself in regards to them. It took self awareness, putting up boundaries, and creating new ways of dealing with them to break old patterns. It was not easy, but I gained a sense of empowerment, and learned to not have expectations of emotional fulfillment from them. Our relationship is much better now bc of it... This may be something you have already tried or are working towards. I have found it to be beneficial 


Know thyself


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

If it's at all possible, I recommend removing yourself both physically and mentally from where you currently are. If you can, take a trip somewhere else, even if it's just to a cafe which is quite far from where you live. If you remove yourself, you can see the situation more clearly most of the time. It also helps to cut out toxic influences, including people. When I was suffering from depression and a friend, who was a toxic influence, got into a huge argument with my sister which led to her being cut out, it felt like a breath of fresh air - I didn't have to deal with her any more.

With depression, the most important thing - and I can't stress this enough - is your health, both physical and mental. Make all the sacrifices for it you have to. Treat yourself as if you were caring for a child. Make sure you sleep enough, eat right, do activities you enjoy, and so on. Take everything at your own pace and don't let anyone else tell you what you have to do. You don't have to do anything if you don't want to.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

laurie17 said:


> If it's at all possible, I recommend removing yourself both physically and mentally from where you currently are. If you can, take a trip somewhere else, even if it's just to a cafe which is quite far from where you live. If you remove yourself, you can see the situation more clearly most of the time. It also helps to cut out toxic influences, including people. When I was suffering from depression and a friend, who was a toxic influence, got into a huge argument with my sister which led to her being cut out, it felt like a breath of fresh air - I didn't have to deal with her any more.
> 
> With depression, the most important thing - and I can't stress this enough - is your health, both physical and mental. Make all the sacrifices for it you have to. Treat yourself as if you were caring for a child. Make sure you sleep enough, eat right, do activities you enjoy, and so on. Take everything at your own pace and don't let anyone else tell you what you have to do. You don't have to do anything if you don't want to.


I moved 1600 miles away and don't know anyone where I'm currently at, so I think I've got the distance/separation thing down. Thanks for the advice, I think proper sleep and better foods will help a lot. I ended up joining a local choir after I moved and the people there are really positive and upbeat. I don't do the 'mingling' thing very well, but their energy is good enough for now.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

jeb713 said:


> I moved 1600 miles away and don't know anyone where I'm currently at, so I think I've got the distance/separation thing down. Thanks for the advice, I think proper sleep and better foods will help a lot. I ended up joining a local choir after I moved and the people there are really positive and upbeat. I don't do the 'mingling' thing very well, but their energy is good enough for now.


Well, my sister also found exercise helped her (I didn't, but that's because it takes over an hour of extreme aerobics for me to get any kind of endorphins). So you could try an exercise routine?


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

laurie17 said:


> Well, my sister also found exercise helped her (I didn't, but that's because it takes over an hour of extreme aerobics for me to get any kind of endorphins). So you could try an exercise routine?


Yeah kind of. I work 13.5 hour shifts at work, 54 hours/week, so I'm a bit exhausted and don't really have the time for it during my work week because I'm also in grad school, but its certainly something worth checking out on my days off. When I had the time I used to do jujitsu. The physical nature of it really helped get some stress out - maybe thats something your sister could consider as well?


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

jeb713 said:


> Yeah kind of. I work 13.5 hour shifts at work, 54 hours/week, so I'm a bit exhausted and don't really have the time for it during my work week because I'm also in grad school, but its certainly something worth checking out on my days off. When I had the time I used to do jujitsu. The physical nature of it really helped get some stress out - maybe thats something your sister could consider as well?


Maybe even just some morning stretches before you get started for the day? Although, overdoing it is a bad idea. I think martial arts are great as they also require a high level of focus and dedication which can help (if you feel like you're working towards something, it distracts you). On that note - of having something to work towards - you could start a project of some kind. Creative therapy can be very helpful. I started writing short stories when I was depressed because it got all the negativity out onto paper and I only got something which actually wasn't a bad end result. Now I rely on writing almost every day to keep my mood even (I once didn't have time to write for a week or so and got very stressed out).

Haha, she already does a weight lifting routine almost every morning, plus working standing up all day in a cafe. She said she'd like to do Aikido when she had time/money though.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

laurie17 said:


> Maybe even just some morning stretches before you get started for the day? Although, overdoing it is a bad idea. I think martial arts are great as they also require a high level of focus and dedication which can help (if you feel like you're working towards something, it distracts you). On that note - of having something to work towards - you could start a project of some kind. Creative therapy can be very helpful. I started writing short stories when I was depressed because it got all the negativity out onto paper and I only got something which actually wasn't a bad end result. Now I rely on writing almost every day to keep my mood even (I once didn't have time to write for a week or so and got very stressed out).
> 
> Haha, she already does a weight lifting routine almost every morning, plus working standing up all day in a cafe. She said she'd like to do Aikido when she had time/money though.


Ahh... creativity is a good one too. I just decided to start modding Mafia games here on PerC. I haven't spent too much time developing my games yet, but I can see what you mean about it being a sort of therapy with creating something. I used to write but not anymore. Somehow I feel like my vocabulary has decreased over the years instead of the opposite, and its kind of irritating  I will try to work this creative idea into a daily thing. Although adding that in addition to exercise is going to be a bit of a strain on my favorite deadly sin: sloth. This is a lot to think about and prioritize. I appreciate the ideas, thank you.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

jeb713 said:


> Ahh... creativity is a good one too. I just decided to start modding Mafia games here on PerC. I haven't spent too much time developing my games yet, but I can see what you mean about it being a sort of therapy with creating something. I used to write but not anymore. Somehow I feel like my vocabulary has decreased over the years instead of the opposite, and its kind of irritating  I will try to work this creative idea into a daily thing. Although adding that in addition to exercise is going to be a bit of a strain on my favorite deadly sin: sloth. This is a lot to think about and prioritize. I appreciate the ideas, thank you.


Yeah, sloth is a pain. It's hard, but you can try setting a schedule up so you have a time when you have to do certain things. But then, you have to enforce it and make sure you only have one or two days off a week, unless you're ill or very stressed. Giving yourself time to dwell is about the worst thing you can do for depression. Maybe try and get an idea of something you want to make within a month, so you have a deadline to work to?


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

laurie17 said:


> Yeah, sloth is a pain. It's hard, but you can try setting a schedule up so you have a time when you have to do certain things. But then, you have to enforce it and make sure you only have one or two days off a week, unless you're ill or very stressed. Giving yourself time to dwell is about the worst thing you can do for depression. Maybe try and get an idea of something you want to make within a month, so you have a deadline to work to?


Hmmm. I'll see what I can do. When my next class starts up I will have no time for any extra pursuits during my work week, but possibly on my days off depending on the workload from school.


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## Alethea (Apr 20, 2014)

.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Hi @jeb713 !!! *HUGGGSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS*

I'm so sorry you had to go through that with your parents. They were really callous in the way they treated you when you opened up to them so honestly with your feelings. "Get over it because you're not the only one with problems?" That's really, really cruel and harsh, especially when you're a hurt son who's just trying to reach out to them. I really wish I could go back in time and hug you and listen because you must have felt so alone then.

HOWEVER, YOU SHOULD FEEL PROUD. I feel proud of you. Why? Number one, you went to a therapist. Number two, you stuck with your therapist for a long time to try and work out your problems. Number three, you accepted your therapist's advice to try and work things out with your parents. Number four, you actually did it. You really did it! Way to go, man! A lot of people don't get past step number one. Or even, if they're forced to go, they make up some story, and don't take it seriously. The fact that you listened and really tried to make things work should be one of your inner source of strength. 

We can't control how others react to our actions but we can control our own actions and how we feel about ourselves. That's basically the core of Fi-dom for me. I actually feel like... you're stifling your Fi a little. Because if it were me, I would be so proud of myself at managing the courage to do all those things, especially since I'm an introvert that loves her bed. 

So, your parents reacted negatively. That's their issue to deal with. That's their problem. Fi-dom, me comes first. I know I did the right thing by going to the therapist and trying. If they don't want to see the effort I made, no water off my back because, obviously, they caused heavy problems for you growing up. Why should I continue listening to people who don't give two shits about me? Or letting their words affect me?

Yes, I care about the world, but in order to heal the world, I have to heal myself first. I'm VERY VERY proud of what you did, really! I know I would have been trembling in my shoes to confront my parents about such a issue, and the fact that you didn't back down, but forged on ahead honestly is admirable. I think you have more strength than you realise. Someone just has to hold a mirror up for you.



jeb713 said:


> I spend so much time trying to do my best for others.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...


All these stood out to me as you not truly loving yourself or appreciating how strong you really are. If it were me, the first thing I would do is to sit down, (or lie in bed, as is my usual method, but maybe INTJs need to sit and write?) , and I'll think, or feel. Or use both! 

What do I value in myself?
What do I value in a friend?
How should a friend act? And you can think of yourself here, how would you act to a friend? A TRUE friend? It can be a figment of your imagination. Imaginary friend, a pet dog, a small child. How would you act to the most helpless creature on earth that trusts you? What would you think? Do? Feel?
How should a friend not act?
If one of my friends came to me, telling me that their friend treated them in such and such a horrible manner, what advice would I give them?
Why can't I give advice to myself like I give to my friends?
And since you're an INTJ: What guidelines would I set my friends to make sure they're not treated badly?

I feel like you accept too much and reject too little. You're actually a great, strong guy inside, but you need to love yourself first before you can love your friends, your future spouse, and the whole world. This is me, Fi. I'll be nice to you as a default, but if you shit on me, I won't care, think, feel or have anything to do with you anymore. Because I know and feel every single person is valuable to the world, and that includes me too. I can't control how you react to me being nice to you, but I can control how I view myself and my actions, and if you shit on that, your loss. It took me a long time to get to this understanding though, so please take time to love yourself and don't rush the process! It's all about you, man!

Love yourself, love the world. Yes, in that order.


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## Pinion (Jul 31, 2013)

When I was a nicer person and didn't have the temperament of a badger with a hangover, I'd often attract similar friends. In my eagerness to help others, I would overlook things I shouldn't have overlooked or give too much. Sometimes people would latch on even if I was being reasonable, because I was a source of something, whether it was validation, attention, or encouragement. 

I didn't assert myself very strongly or cut off people who didn't respect me. There was always an excuse. "Yes, they only want to talk to me when they have a problem, but they're really struggling right now and need a friend." or "Yes, they say creepy shit about knowing that my post was secretly for them or only they can understand me after I tell them to back off, but they're lonely."

Now I have a keen nose for it and am harsh in my judgments, always maintaining a certain level of distance so that I don't look like a savior, but there are plenty of people who find a balance.

The worst part was that my giving was also unmoderated at times, because I was trying to be a good friend or save those in trouble and didn't have much of an opinion about when enough was enough. Instead of having reserves for myself, I wound up sucked dry, kicked around, lied to, and manipulated. People would do anything to avoid having their supply cut off, and I found out just how vicious people who supposedly love you can be. There was little left to cast a wide enough net to find people who could understand me.

I don't know if this is your specific problem, but it seems to be a common one with people not always realizing what's going on.

Sometimes people change, too, and there's nothing that can be done about that.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

jeb713 said:


> I spend so much time trying to do my best for others. People have always felt like they could open up to me and share all their secrets and thoughts and frustrations. I don't know why, but they do. I ask them questions and try to figure them out as a person - their motivations, feelings, desires. I help them with problems if they have them and provide genuine support. I don't ask for anything in return, because I don't think I should have to. Sometimes after a while people will say, "you're such a mystery," or they'll wonder, "How were you able to figure me out?" Well, I was interested in something other than myself and I listened and put in effort. People don't seem to do this for me in any form of relationship that I've had. I don't think I've ever felt strongly connected to another person aside from whatever closeness I could achieve by being able to help someone.


I relate to this a lot. I think I'm also INTJ 2. I've never been close to your level of depression, but I have had some bouts of it in the past.

I would suggest thinking about your own needs and what *you* personally want. It's hard for us to do this, but I think it's a key to stop feeling unfulfilled in the end no matter what we do for others. 2s integrate to 4s, which is the most self-expressing type you could say.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

Desire said:


> I relate to this a lot. I think I'm also INTJ 2. I've never been close to your level of depression, but I have had some bouts of it in the past.
> 
> I would suggest thinking about your own needs and what *you* personally want. It's hard for us to do this, but I think it's a key to stop feeling unfulfilled in the end no matter what we do for others. 2s integrate to 4s, which is the most self-expressing type you could say.


How do you rationalize to yourself and others the combination of INTJ and type two?

After some advice I've gotten here and some introspection, it's pretty clear that you're right... I need to do some Fi building. How to go about doing that, I'm not sure. Perhaps just more introspection about what I truly value and want, even though that's a bit uncomfortable.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

jeb713 said:


> How do you rationalize to yourself and others the combination of INTJ and type two?
> 
> After some advice I've gotten here and some introspection, it's pretty clear that you're right... I need to do some Fi building. How to go about doing that, I'm not sure. Perhaps just more introspection about what I truly value and want, even though that's a bit uncomfortable.


Yea, it is uncomfortable for sure. I still haven't gotten full hang of it yet.

It's a pretty peculiar combination, probably why I ignored type 2 for so long as a possibility. If you think about it, the more ''helper'' descriptions actually concern more xSFJ traits combined with type 2 logic. The cognition of an INTJ is very different from an xSFJ, so it makes sense that very little INTJs would understand themselves as being a type 2. More put off by it than anything.

I find myself using my intuition to figure out people and helping them express themselves. Having weaker Feeling however might cause these issues we have with connecting in a more deeper level ? Something we long for I believe. There often appears to be an emotional ''gap'' that we have trouble jumping across.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

Desire said:


> Yea, it is uncomfortable for sure. I still haven't gotten full hang of it yet.
> 
> It's a pretty peculiar combination, probably why I ignored type 2 for so long as a possibility. If you think about it, the more ''helper'' descriptions actually concern more xSFJ traits combined with type 2 logic. The cognition of an INTJ is very different from an xSFJ, so it makes sense that very little INTJs would understand themselves as being a type 2. More put off by it than anything.
> 
> I find myself using my intuition to figure out people and helping them express themselves. Having weaker Feeling however might cause these issues we have with connecting in a more deeper level ? Something we long for I believe. There often appears to be an emotional ''gap'' that we have trouble jumping across.


Peculiar indeed, but it does make a certain amount of sense. If we are driven by efficiency and the desire to problem solve, then it shouldn't be so weird for us to want to solve problems for others and help them by making their lives better and more efficient. 

So, in romantic relationships for example, are you saying that you think there is a giant gap that you're having trouble jumping across in terms of feeling connected to the other person? Like... you have a strong notion that the other side of the gap contains this level of connection beyond what you've experienced previously, and you are strongly driven to get there and crushed when the other party doesn't seem to have the same drive for it?


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

jeb713 said:


> Like... you have a strong notion that the other side of the gap contains this level of connection beyond what you've experienced previously, and you are strongly driven to get there and crushed when the other party doesn't seem to have the same drive for it?


Actually, it tends to be the opposite. I will not be able to reciprocate fully other than in a more ''distant'' way like you said here:



> _I don't think I've ever felt strongly connected to another person aside from whatever closeness I could achieve by being able to help someone._


I've been in situations where the other person seems very ''attached'' to me, but I do not feel the same attachment at the same level. Those are times where I get the impression I should distance myself, because I do not feel I can satisfy them at that level.

I've never been in the opposite situation, so I can't say for sure.

I also should add I think I might be triple-rejection triad (2-8-5) and possibly Sp, which could play an amplified role at having issues surpassing this distance.


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

Desire said:


> Actually, it tends to be the opposite. I will not be able to reciprocate fully other than in a more ''distant'' way like you said here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's exactly what I was meaning. There seems to be this superlative dichotomy in either direction for me, at least. That gap in the middle is where I would imagine is the healthiest place to be?


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

Desire said:


> I also should add I think I might be triple-rejection triad (2-8-5) and possibly Sp, which could play an amplified role at having issues surpassing this distance.


Being SP would probably explain why you haven't experienced the same kind of depression, no?


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

jeb713 said:


> Being SP would probably explain why you haven't experienced the same kind of depression, no?


I believe that's a fair statement, I think a Sx 2 like yourself would find more problems relating to those more specific issues. They might place more importance in the state of the connection (how much does X like me? what does X actually think of me?) to the point where it might become almost all-encompassing in your life?



> There seems to be this superlative dichotomy in either direction for me, at least. That gap in the middle is where I would imagine is the healthiest place to be?


I guess some form of moderation is probably preferred, yea. In which direction do you usually feel you're in more? Constant tug and pull perhaps?


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## jeb (Jan 6, 2014)

Desire said:


> I believe that's a fair statement, I think a Sx 2 like yourself would find more problems relating to those more specific issues. They might place more importance in the state of the connection (how much does X like me? what does X actually think of me?) to the point where it might become almost all-encompassing in your life?


Exactly. And to use a Mafia term, I WIFOM myself into oblivion about it. Its like having a burning question that you can't google and there is no reference for finding an answer so it drives you crazy thinking about all of the possibilities.



> I guess some form of moderation is probably preferred, yea. In which direction do you usually feel you're in more? Constant tug and pull perhaps?


Generally people are always in the spot you described as having yourself, unless they have breeched some internal layer and then I feel trapped trying to find the other side of the gap. If that makes sense >.>

How do you find moderation and be okay with it internally? It gets a bit ridiculous, because I can rationalize how moderation would work in my head, but I don't _feel_ rational about it regardless.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

jeb713 said:


> How do you find moderation and be okay with it internally? It gets a bit ridiculous, because I can rationalize how moderation would work in my head, but I don't _feel_ rational about it regardless.


Yea, I can have issues with that for sure. I can sometimes over-exert myself to please others.

Although, from what I read, you have much bigger issues with it. Perhaps you must learn to cut ties better with people that you feel aren't reciprocating your feelings adequately. 

Have you ever been in a situation where you do feel fulfilled? If yes, than you already know what you're seeking and should focus on that feeling.
If not, then perhaps you are investing too much time in something that will become a major source of stress for you in the long run (like now it seems). Often, investing even _more_ time/energy in order to ''fix'' those relationships is probably not worth it. If it demands so much from you in the first place, in return for little (i.e them clearly not making an effort), it probably means you're not being treated like you deserve.


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