# Interaction between NFs and SJs



## nathdep (May 5, 2012)

I was working today with my best friend and my mom while we were cleaning some stuff out of my church. I consider my friend to be an ESTJ and my mom an ISFJ. I am an INFJ and I think this caused us some problems. I read that SJs tend to be diligent and hardworking whereas NFs tend to be less concerned of day-to-day living and more toward the future. It was interesting that my friend and my mom were extremely interested with the job at hand while I wasn't. We were pretty much organizing boxes of craft supplies by taking the supplies out of a big box and putting them into smaller boxes. I grew frustrated as I thought there was no use in moving the craft supplies from one box to another. However, my friend and mom grew increasingly frustrated with me because of my lack of interest and they could not understand why I wouldn't take part in trying to "organize" the supplies. My friend and mom have also caused me a hard time as I have a hard time getting motivated to do household chores such as mowing the lawn, picking up, etc. In my mind, I view these chores as useless because the grass will just grow back in a few days and the house will inevitably grow messier over time. I am very interested with abstract things such as foreign language, music, and personality typology (who would've guessed?:tongue and these hobbies confuse my friend as he cannot figure out why somebody would interest themselves with what he calls "useless" things (Although he is interested in music; we just have totally different tastes). Sometimes it's hard because my mom and my friend can "gang up" on me because of how similar their beliefs are.


So, do you concur with this? Have you experienced something like this too?


Thanks for your responses!


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## amy.keiko (Jun 14, 2012)

i've definitely experienced something similar. my dad is an SJ and he questions what i'm doing a LOT and i always feel belittled, heh. however, if i have to do chores i always make a list. that helps me get stuff done. i used to be so against helping around the house because i didn't want to do it. now i view it as a way to make my mom happy and to help her out.


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## Pointless Activist (May 22, 2012)

My dad, mom, and my two sisters are ALL SJ's. My whole family is, in fact. We don't get a long very well, because I don't understand their need to know every little detail about what I consider the mundane things in life, and they don't understand my ideals, my lack of interest in the day to day, the fact that I don't like plans or schedules, and my introversion(just me wanting to be alone in general. My whole family is a bunch of extroverts as well). I have no idea how I came out of this family. I don't hate SJ's, it's just that we are pretty much opposites and their way of life doesn't work well for me. It's not their fault though. I just think it is an inability to communicate to each other. Wow. I ramble.


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## GoodOldDreamer (Sep 8, 2011)

How do I interact with SJs? I agree to disagree, and try to leave it at that. Well, the STJs. I'm not sure if I've known an SFJ as of yet. That could be interesting. Hmm.

Anyway, I'd love to get along with SJs, but they have a tendency to not get along me, so... I generally just try to leave them be so they won't get worked up over anything. *shrug* I keep getting the vibe from them that "If you don't see things (as well as do things) my way, then hit the highway". So... yeah. Oh well.

SPs, on the other hand, I haven't had much issue with. I get along really well with the SFPs.


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## fresh (Jul 3, 2011)

My mom, my best friend, my aunt, and my grandfather are SJ's (ESFJ, ISFJ, ISFJ, and ISTJ). I think largely due to my mom, I don't mind doing stereotyped "SJ" activities sometimes like cleaning or organizing things, although when I was younger, it was definitely a pain in the ass. Luckily she understands that I do these things on my own, in my own way now. I think I feel the most tension with them when they don't understand my choices or opinions, in particular with my ISTJ grandpa. He is always lecturing me about life and what I should be doing, and then complains that "I'm not my own person". How can I be my own person if he keeps telling me what to do? Generally the tension seems to stem from what I should do or should be like (you know, "you need more friends, you need a job"), but luckily, I think we all are slowly understanding each other and starting to accept our differences. And I'm learning not to let their judgements bother me too much anymore, and take it as their way of trying to help me.

The other things I've noticed with my best friend and grandpa in particular is that I can't give them "hints", being straight forward is the only way to go, which isn't necessarily a bad thing--it has it's advantages.

When I've been in a situation like yours @nathdep, I try to focus on enjoying the persons company and having an opportunity to talk to them about stuff. So it sometimes can be fun, even if the activity is mundane or seemingly pointless, haha.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

GoodOldDreamer said:


> How do I interact with SJs? I agree to disagree, and try to leave it at that. Well, the STJs. I'm not sure if I've known an SFJ as of yet. That could be interesting. Hmm.
> 
> Anyway, I'd love to get along with SJs, but they have a tendency to not get along me, so... I generally just try to leave them be so they won't get worked up over anything. *shrug* I keep getting the vibe from them that "If you don't see things (as well as do things) my way, then hit the highway". So... yeah. Oh well.
> 
> SPs, on the other hand, I haven't had much issue with. I get along really well with the SFPs.


*hugs* You seem cool to me. Oops, oh wait, I'm an ESFP this week. Never mind. :tongue:


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## GoodOldDreamer (Sep 8, 2011)

Stephen said:


> *hugs* You seem cool to me. Oops, oh wait, I'm an ESFP this week. Never mind. :tongue:


*hugs right back!* (We could use a hug emoticon, btw.) It's all good, bud. Kayness makes you loveable and relate-able no matter your type. :wink: It's hard to argue with cute, yo.


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

nathdep said:


> So, do you concur with this? Have you experienced something like this too?


Hell no. While I certainly am a Si dominant, in temperament I am far more like an NT and identify with them in almost every way save confidence.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Meh, I don't know what to think. My parents are both xSTJ's (and no, not because they're strict :tongue and we don't get along well. Like @_GoodOldDreamer_ said, it's mostly a "My way is the right way, no discussion" kind of philosophy. They're very rigid, inflexible, set in their ways.

My ex was an ISTJ though and we never had any major problems except maybe the lack of communication/emotional expression on his part.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

We get along well, to tell you the truth. 

Which leads me to the question I always must ask to such threads as these: how do you know you've typed the person right? Did you type by behavior (never a good plan)? Did you talk to the person about MBTI and Jung and go in-depth? Typing yourself, the person you know best, is already hard. So how can you be so confident you've typed somebody else right? This is just a general warning. It is extremely easy to see our family members, especially parents, as stereotypical SJs. Even though the whole J/P thing doesn't at all get into cognitive functions and is quite shallow, lots of people type their parents as Js because adults of course are going to be more organized and plan more. [I am quoting from another post of mine here.] It's not every day we get into "deep" conversation with our parents and often it seems as though they are caught up in work and superficial things. 

We are _very _biased. 

I could say a lot more. But the point stands: the way we type other people is usually wrong. 

I've got an ESFJ mother. I've actually talked to her about personality theory. I've talked with her about cognitive functions and MBTI and the Enneagram. She's really interested in it. She also likes philosophy and various other things that most Intuitives would call "deep" or "abstract. What does this "deep" conversation have to do with Intuitives, anyway? Why is it solely an Intuitive thing? 

I haven't really had those experiences for the most part, at least not with my family members. Three of which are SJs, almost confirmed.


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## DarwinsBastard (Apr 27, 2012)

one of my best friends is an ISFJ, he's loyal, generous, and generally an awesome guy, we're pretty different people but we get along really well.


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## liza_200 (Nov 13, 2010)

Hmm. Si/Fe clashes with me. Specially Fe/Si. Due to their extrovert nature, they talk more, and most of their conversations are about gossips. Too much norms and rules to follow? Asking me what I 'should' do and 'should not' do even when it's irrelevant? Not my cup of tea. And Fe doms/aux and even sometimes teritiary/last users can be unreceptive if someone doesn't act in their norms (which they've exposed). It's still acceptable from Fe intuitives and people with Fe tertiary or if they've it as last function. Though I like the fact that they at least have some sense of justice and dignity, and also responsibility.


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## locofoco (Apr 5, 2011)

I really depends on the person. I had two ESFJ friends in high school. One was very unhealthy and the other was a saint. I got along well with them unless we had a clash of ethics and direction in life. My mother is an ISTJ. She told me that when she was younger, she was the kind that did what she was told, no questions asked, very much the stereotype, but becoming a mother centered her somehow. We do collide since she tries to be a bit dominating, since she does have that "no questions, no dissent, only my way" mentality if she gets emotional or feels like disorder is occurring. I noticed that she is a bit more overbearing than other mothers, but we've had calm discussions over it (or at least, I stayed calm. lol).

I don't think I'd like to marry an SJ, but they are still very valuable as friends and family members. But still, they are individuals. My two ESFJ friends had very different maturity levels. No one is going to get along with everyone.


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## ibage (May 5, 2012)

My mother is an ISFJ and she and I get along great for the most part. We fight from time to time over how to handle certain things but overall, we get along fine. 

A friend of mine from work I believe is an ISTJ and that's a different story. We share the same political beliefs but we tend to agree to disagree more often than not. I also find him to be critical... VERY critical. He's a great guy and would do almost anything he could for you. However, "The Man" usually comes first.


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## CooCooCaCha (Apr 22, 2012)

"Anyway, I'd love to get along with SJs, but they have a tendency to not get along me, so... I generally just try to leave them be so they won't get worked up over anything. *shrug* I keep getting the vibe from them that "If you don't see things (as well as do things) my way, then hit the highway". So... yeah. Oh well.

SPs, on the other hand, I haven't had much issue with. I get along really well with the SFPs."


Oh that's really interesting. On paper, from just reading descriptions alone when I first got into MBTI, I decided that I would really dislike ESTJs most of all, and ISTJs right after them. Imagine my surprise when I found out one my closest friends (who is one of the few people I feel completely comfortable opening up to) is an ESTJ! I can see how less mature ESTJs and ENFJs would butt heads over practically everything, but we are both extremely open minded, and interested in trying to understand each other's points of view. Deep mutual respect and understanding, even if we have very different perspectives. My grandfather was an ISTJ, and another one of my very good friends is also an ISTJ. While in many ways we're polar opposites, it manifests more as fascination and appreciative amusement with the other, rather than as a clash. Their earthy practicality, quiet way, frankness and strength... I admire immensely, and frankly envy, even if it goes counter to many of my own instincts and personal values. But then, I like to think we're all pretty well developed. 

This particular ESTJ (I've met some of her engineer friends who I believe must also be STJs, and they were really callus, arrogant, narrow minded and generally insufferable...needless to say we clashed) and these particular ISTJs are an example to me of how every type has it's best, most well developed members, and how all types at these levels can benefit from each other's insights, even if they are quite different from each other. It's the less mature, poorly developed members of the different type-groups who cause all the conflict!

My mother is an ISFJ, and while she and I don't see eye to eye on matters of life-structure/ traditions/ etc. and she doesn't really appreciate my abstract big picture serious thinking (she even see's my dark-ish sense of humor as negative, rather than as, well, what I consider to be joyful). Still we share the same values in terms of general daily living--planning, appropriate behavior, reasonable reactions, similar aesthetic values, similar taste in music and some creature comforts (I eat very well with her). 

Meanwhile, SPs and I clash with to no end. Perhaps I don't meet very many well adjusted SPs. I can think of a couple of people who I love dearly and really enjoy the company of, but I do find that their quirks and negative traits, however minimal, really bother me. Even more than a more powerfully negative trait in another type (NF or NT for example, ahem) generally would. 

I think it's interesting because your enneagram type is 9w1. The 9 means you value equality and peace and harmony above all else, and I could see why a live in the moment "whatever man" SP wouldn't bother you as much as a discriminating order oriented STJ. I'm a 4w3. The 4 means I value individuality, and the w3 means I like quality and high standards. So it makes sense that SPs would irritate me, while I appreciate the SJs sense of law and order.


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

I've certainly experienced being ganged up on with my mom and various friends or other people I know who are not as P or as F or whatever the difference happens to be at the time. I definitely share your view on what's interesting vs. useless, while my mom and ISTJ would be the opposite just as you've described.


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