# How Enneagram relates to D&D Moral Alignment with Orwell Temperament



## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Moral Alignment is a used in the Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) game to describe personality for characters. Interestingly, it intersects with Enneagram and Orwell Temperament.

*Moral Alignment Information Chart*


*Honorable**Practical**Independent**Humane*Honorable and HumanePractical and HumaneIndependent and Humane*Realistic*Honorable and RealisticPractical and RealisticIndependent and Realistic*Determined*Honorable and DeterminedPractical and DeterminedIndependent and Determined
Source of chart: "Real" Alignments?

Enneagram is Angel Number as they manifest in physical form.

*Angel Number Information Chart*


Angel Number 1-9Short DescriptionAsk-Angels.com Quoted Description1Have faith in yourselfStay positive. Think about and focus upon what you want, not on what you dislike, fear, or what you are worried about... Your thoughts create!2Better days are aheadAll is well. Stay optimistic that a positive outcome is aligning and you will draw it towards you. Keep the faith.3You are spiritually supportedThe ascended masters are with you, helping you and guiding you from the realms of spirit. Become aware of their love and presence4Angels are with you, ask for angelic guidance if you need itAngels are with you! Keep asking for help and knowing you have access to angelic guidance healing, and assistance in this very moment.5Positive changes are comingChange is in the air! Call upon you angels for help manifesting positive new changes in your life.6Release fear and worriesFind a balance between the material and spiritual. Worrying about money is counter productive. Call on Heaven to help you release fear.7You are on the right trackLucky 7! You’re on track and aligned with luck and Divine magic, look for open doors and new opportunities opening up for you now.8You have infinite abundance and prosperity to accomplish your goalsInfinite abundance and prosperity are available to you in all areas, especially to help you accomplish your purpose.9You have everything you need to accomplish your souls purposeYou have everything you need to accomplish your souls purpose and to step into completing your lightwork… It’s time to get started and to take action.
Personality portraits about each Enneagram number:





Explore the 9 Enneagram type descriptions


Introduction to the nine Enneagram types of Personality, motivations, fixations, core fears, virtues and vices




integrative9.com





For Enneagram, and how it relates to Moral Alignment:
(1, 4, 7) ties to Humane or "Good" in Moral Alignment
(3, 6, 9) ties to Realistic or "Neutral" in Moral Alignment
(2, 5, 8) ties to Determined or "Evil" in Moral Alignment

Here is a quick summary of Orwell Temperament, which describes how people handle data or information:

*Conformists *adhere to mainstream views. They take-in information that help confirm their perspectives about family and society. They are likely to reject alternative views or information that do not conform to their visions.

*Enablers *will listen to and consider alternative views, though will also find ways to refute them. If no refutations are available, they will kindly listen and not speak. They only accept information that will help them in their endeavors.

*Strategists *will listen to alternative views and question the reasons behind them. They will consider the information from different angles, and bend the rules if doing so can bring benefits.

*Pioneers *look for new information and different perspectives in the area of their interests, and like to share them with others. They are interested in new ways of doing, and trying out something new. They sometimes question mainstream accounts or news channels, and do things their own way or find the truth for themselves.

For Orwellian Temperament, and how it relates to Moral Alignment Temperament:
Conformist ties to Honorable or "Lawful" in Moral Alignment
Enabler ties to Practical or "Neutral True" in Moral Alignment
Strategist and Pioneer tie to Independent or "Chaotic" in Moral Alignment

Enneagram Chart for reference:

View attachment 874442


*Honorable (Conformist)**Practical (Enabler)**Independent (Strategist and Pioneer)**Humane (Enneagram Types 1, 4, 7)*Honorable and Humane

Conformist and Enneagram (1, 4, 7)Practical and Humane

Enabler and Enneagram (1, 4, 7)Independent and Humane

Strategist, Pioneer, and Enneagram (1, 4, 7)*Realistic (Enneagram Types 3, 6, 9)*Honorable and Realistic

Conformist and Enneagram (3, 6, 9)Practical and Realistic

Enabler and Enneagram (3, 6, 9)Independent and Realistic

Strategist, Pioneer, and Enneagram (3, 6, 9)*Determined (Enneagram Types 2, 5, 8)*Honorable and Determined

Conformist and Enneagram (2, 5, 8)Practical and Determined

Enabler and Enneagram (2, 5, 8)Independent and Determined

Strategist, Pioneer, and Enneagram (2, 5, 8)


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> Moral Alignment is a used in the Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) game to describe personality for characters. Interestingly, it intersects with Enneagram and Orwell Temperament.
> 
> For Enneagram, and how it relates to Moral Alignment:
> (1, 4, 7) ties to Humane or "Good" in Moral Alignment
> ...


*Enneagram 1, 9 *= Freud's Superego (Lawfulness/Conscientousness)

*Enneagram 2* = Empathy/People pleasing behaviour (Tendency for Good)

*Enneagram 3, 4, 5, 6* = Freud's Ego (Neutrality/Self Interest)

*Enneagram 7, 8 =* Freud's Id (Chaoticism/Impulsiveness)


It is hard to assign good and evil to enneagram types. I think it is best to assume people as *neutral* on good-evil spectrum, with inclination towards good and evil depending on the circumstance/context and upbringing. 

*Evil =* Hurting beings physically or mentally with the intent to cause anguish (sadism). Or taking resources from others without reciprocating in proportion (opportunism), knowingly leaving them worse off after the interaction.

Types with low empathy (enneagram 2) might be more prone to sadism/opportunism (evil) and would not register (notice) any pain/distress when inflicting anguish on others.

Depending on the upbringing and enneagram strengths of a given individual, he/she might have tendency towards being Lawful Neutral, True Neutral, Chaotic Neutral with tendency towards evil and/or good.


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> *Enneagram 1, 9 *= Freud's Superego (Lawfulness/Conscientousness)
> 
> *Enneagram 2* = Empathy/People pleasing behaviour (Tendency for Good)
> 
> ...


Evil is not defined as being sadistic and wishing harm to others. It's defined as being Determined, or making sure that you get what you want, even at the expense of other people. 

On the other hand, Good is defined as people who want everyone to benefit through their actions, while Neutral is that the people look out for themselves, though also care about other people.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> Evil is not defined as being sadistic and wishing harm to others. It's defined as being Determined, or making sure that you get what you want, even at the expense of other people.
> 
> On the other hand, Good is defined as people who want everyone to benefit through their actions, while Neutral is that the people look out for themselves, though also care about other people.


_"It's defined as being Determined, or making sure that you get what you want, even at the expense of other people."_

I think that is more like *neutrality *so long as your focus is *not* on expending people in the process but reaching your goal. People may benefit or suffer in the process while you achieve your goal, which is to benefit yourself rather than benefitting or harming others, and you do not enjoy either of it.

Evil is more like expending people for the sake of it, and enjoying it. In this case the goal itself is to create *suffering, misfortune, and wrongdoing. (See **Malice**)

Alignment-wise, good *people usually focus benefitting others at the expense of themselves, the focus is more on others than the self.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Sparky said:


> Moral Alignment is a used in the Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) game to describe personality for characters. Interestingly, it intersects with Enneagram and Orwell Temperament.
> 
> *Moral Alignment Information Chart*
> 
> ...


I've always considered myself Chaotic-Good because, while I do have a tendency towards being spirited, mischievous, and curious, there are just some lines I will not cross.

I will not bully people, I will not be deliberately cruel to people, I will not force people to do something against their will. I will not actively participate in the depriving of the liberties of others.

I consider "evil" to be the active indifference, or willful participation in the suffering of others. I will not be party to this. Nor will I rejoice in the perpetuation of ignorance.

I believe in these boundaries because I have been victimized, and I would not want others to inflict them upon me. I will stand up for myself if and when required. I will not be bullied into compromising my principles.

I will defend myself, and if sufficiently provoked, I am capable of hurting someone, maybe even killing them, but I would only do so if I felt mortally threatened, or someone I cared about was.

I have a fully developed moral code and I strive every day to live by it. When I fail, I do my best to make redress.


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> _"It's defined as being Determined, or making sure that you get what you want, even at the expense of other people."_
> 
> I think that is more like *neutrality *so long as your focus is *not* on expending people in the process but reaching your goal. People may benefit or suffer in the process while you achieve your goal, which is to benefit yourself rather than benefitting or harming others, and you do not enjoy either of it.
> 
> ...


In terms of personality, the D&D Moral Alignment also defines Evil as Determined, meaning the person is determined to get what he wants. Good is when benefit for everyone is considered, not necessarily at the expense of self, because in that case, it would be called "stupidity".


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Sparky said:


> In terms of personality, the D&D Moral Alignment also defines Evil as Determined, meaning the person is determined to get what he wants. Good is when benefit for everyone is considered, not necessarily at the expense of self, because in that case, it would be called "stupidity".


If I eat a strawberry when alone, that action might benefit only me, at least primarily. Is that stupid then?


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Also I disagree with your enneageam descriptions; I don't think type 2 and 5 should be considered evil. How did you get to this conclusion?


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Electra said:


> If I eat a strawberry when alone, that action might benefit only me, at least primarily. Is that stupid then?


Eating a strawberry does not come at your expense, so it's not stupid. 

If someone gives you one dollar, and you give him ten dollars in return, so that it benefits him at your expense, then that would be "stupidity".



Electra said:


> Also I disagree with your enneageam descriptions; I don't think type 2 and 5 should be considered evil. How did you get to this conclusion?


Type 2 and Type 5 are termed as Determined. It's only "Evil" in the D&D Moral Alignment terminology.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Sparky said:


> Eating a strawberry does not come at your expense, so it's not stupid.
> 
> If someone gives you one dollar, and you give him ten dollars in return, so that it benefits him at your expense, then that would be "stupidity".
> 
> ...


Hmm...I can agree with your strawberry conclution but I don't agree with the Dungeons and Dragon classification, whoever made it.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

Electra said:


> If I eat a strawberry when alone, that action might benefit only me, at least primarily. Is that stupid then?


reminds me of some of the buddhist debates on the morality of eating meat.. 

they would argue that shrimp is less moral than beef because the various parts of a cow can be used to feed several families, has greater widespread usage for multiple needs. although, shrimp is used in a variety of products.. it's not something everyone can easily do to make utilitarian. 

the arguments towards a strawberry, tho, would likely fit more within acceptability because although you may choose to eat one.. there is usually more than one to be harvested and they can be grown to feed more than just yourself. but even just feeding yourself strawberries, it's a sustainable practice that doesn't take away from another.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

Electra said:


> evil








The Alignment System - Neutral Evil


The most comprehensive description of the Dungeons and Dragons alignment system available online.



easydamus.com






* *






Neutral evil is the philosophy that the self is best advanced by using whatever means necessary. It is a philosophy of egoistic consequentialism. This philosophy holds that people should behave egoistically and embrace any social order that allows them to gain the most power. Neutral evil can also be associated with act egoism, personal ethical egoism, and social darwinism.

Neutral evil philosophers generally maintain that there is metaphysical balance in the multiverse and thus may support doctrines of soft determinism, pragmatism, conventionalism, and/or instrumentalism. They may believe in free will or choice. They could also embrace skepticism or suspend judgment on philosophical issues. They tend to be moral relativists, holding that values differ from society to society, from person to person; that they are conditioned by the peculiarities of the society in which they arise; that they are not universally applicable at all times or in all places; and that they are correct or incorrect, desirable or undesirable only relative to whether or not they conform to a common norm or to common acceptance.

The ideal government for this alignment is any social order in which radical egoism is rewarded and altruism is punished. Neutral evil beings will try to secure the most power for themselves and will use the power of the state to accomplish this or the act against the state, if more power can be gained in this manner. Retributive justice is favored by neutral evil beings.


*Lawful evil* is the philosophy that the self is best advanced through the apparatus of the state. It is a philosophy of egoistic collectivism. This philosophy holds that people should behave egoistically and that the state exists to elevate the worthy to positions of power. Lawful evil can also be associated with rule egoism, universal ethical egoism, and social darwinism.

Lawful evil philosophers generally maintain that there is metaphysical order in the multiverse and thus may support doctrines of hard determinism, predeterminism, fatalism, predestination, and/or necessitarianism. They may believe in fate or destiny. They tend to be moral objectivists, holding that values exist in the external world independently of and external to our comprehension of them; that they can be found and known; and that they must be used as principles for human judgments and conduct.

The ideal government for this alignment is an authoritarian state with codified laws supporting a social order in which radical egoism is rewarded and altruism is punished. Lawful evil beings want the power of the state to be used for the benefit of the self. Retributive justice is used to punish those who threaten the social order.

*Chaotic evil* is the philosophy that the self is best advanced through the freedom to act independently. It is a philosophy of egoistic individualism. This philosophy holds that people should behave egoistically and that society exists for the sake of its individual members. Chaotic evil can also be associated with egoistic hedonism, individual ethical egoism, and social darwinism. Political and ethical nihilism also feature heavily in chaotic evil thought.

Chaotic evil philosophers generally maintain that there is metaphysical chaos in the multiverse and thus may support doctrines of indeterminism, casualism, tychism, and/or accidentalism. They may believe that fortune or chance determine all outcomes. They tend to be moral subjectivists, holding that values are expressions of emotions, attitudes, reactions, feelings, thoughts, wishes, and desires, and have no independent objective or external reality or reference in the real world.

The ideal government for this alignment is an minimalist state or anarchy supporting a social order in which radical egoism is rewarded and altruism is punished. Chaotic evil beings believe that the best way to advance themselves is by securing the most freedom to act as possible. Retributive justice is used to punish those who act against the chaotic evil.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Rift said:


> reminds me of some of the buddhist debates on the morality of eating meat..
> 
> they would argue that shrimp is less moral than beef because the various parts of a cow can be used to feed several families, has greater widespread usage for multiple needs. although, shrimp is used in a variety of products.. it's not something everyone can easily do to make utilitarian.
> 
> the arguments towards a strawberry, tho, would likely fit more within acceptability because although you may choose to eat one.. there is usually more than one to be harvested and they can be grown to feed more than just yourself. but even just feeding yourself strawberries, it's a sustainable practice that doesn't take away from another.


And lest not forget; the strawberry might secondarily benefit the family and societal contacts of the eater; it nourishes the body and sustain health of the eater. However; if the strawberry fell into evil hands...muahahahaha 😈


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Rift said:


> The Alignment System - Neutral Evil
> 
> 
> The most comprehensive description of the Dungeons and Dragons alignment system available online.
> ...


I have taken that twice.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

Electra said:


> However; if the strawberry fell into evil hands...muahahahaha 😈


attack of the killer strawberries?


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> In terms of personality, the D&D Moral Alignment also defines Evil as Determined, meaning the person is determined to get what he wants. Good is when benefit for everyone is considered, not necessarily at the expense of self, because in that case, it would be called "stupidity".


Evil is not about determination. It is about the means you choose to employ to achieve your ends.

Good is providing benefit to others at your expense. "_Behavior is normally described as __*altruistic *__when it is motivated by a desire to benefit someone other than oneself for that person’s sake_. _The term is used as the contrary of “self-interested” or “selfish” or “egoistic”—words applied to behavior that is motivated solely by the desire to benefit oneself. “Malicious” designates an even greater contrast: it applies to behavior that expresses a desire to harm others simply for the sake of harming them._"


* *


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> Evil is not about determination. It is about the means you choose to employ to achieve your ends.
> 
> Good is providing benefit to others at your expense. "_Behavior is normally described as __*altruistic *__when it is motivated by a desire to benefit someone other than oneself for that person’s sake_. _The term is used as the contrary of “self-interested” or “selfish” or “egoistic”—words applied to behavior that is motivated solely by the desire to benefit oneself. “Malicious” designates an even greater contrast: it applies to behavior that expresses a desire to harm others simply for the sake of harming them._"
> 
> ...


You are thinking in terms of predatory-prey relationship, in which a cat is evil from the perspective of a mouse. 

This is from a personality perspective, in which being determined, is considered "evil" in respect to being neutral or good.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> You are thinking in terms of predatory-prey relationship, in which a cat is evil from the perspective of a mouse.
> 
> This is from a personality perspective, in which being determined, is considered "evil" in respect to being neutral or good.


No, predatory behaviour is neutral, so long as the goal is to find nourishment. 

However, if an animal were to torture or kill prey for entertainment rather than nourishment, that would be evil.

An animal killing its own kind for territory or food is neutral (otherwise it will die itself).

An animal killing its own kind for fun is evil, killing its own kind for nourishment is cannibalism.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

I took the test again. I was really in doubt about a question so I took the questionare twice.
I am not sure what how that alligns with the above however...


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> No, predatory behaviour is neutral, so long as the goal is to find nourishment.
> 
> However, if an animal were to torture or kill prey for entertainment rather than nourishment, that would be evil.
> 
> ...


Animals will often overkill, or kill more than one can eat, when the opportunity arises, like a fox in a chicken cage. This is not "evil" as it's the fox's nature to hunt.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> Animals will often overkill, or kill more than one can eat, when the opportunity arises, like a fox in a chicken cage. This is not "evil" as it's the fox's nature to hunt.


It is enjoying the harming/killing and harming/killing for enjoyment that is evil.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Several ways you can look at this.

If we go by these definitions:

Lawful & Chaotic:
Chaotic ⟶ Independent
Neutral ⟶ Practical
Lawful ⟶ Honorable

Then I would say;
Independent could be seen as: 459 (Withdrawn)
Practical could be seen as: 378 (Assertive)
Lawful could be seen as: 126 (Compliant)

Good & Evil:
Good ⟶ Humane
Neutral ⟶ Realistic
Evil ⟶ Determined

Then I would say;
Humane could be seen as: 279 (Positive Outlook)
Realistic could be seen as: 468 (Reactive)
Determined could be seen as: 135 (Competency)

Though, there seems to be a problem where pieces aren't adding up 100%.

Perhaps this instead:

Independent could be seen as: 459 (Withdrawn)
Practical could be seen as: 135 (Competency)
Lawful could be seen as: 126 (Compliant)

Humane could be seen as: 279 (Positive Outlook)
Realistic could be seen as: 468 (Reactive)
Determined could be seen as: 378 (Assertive) 

Again, not perfect.

Another variation:

Independent could be seen as: 459
Practical could be seen as: 135
Lawful could be seen as: 126

Humane could be seen as: 279
Realistic could be seen as: 368
Determined could be seen as: 378

Hmm...

Maybe we should at it from a different angle.

The site also gives these definitions:

Lawful Good - Conformity/Tradition and Benevolence
Neutral Good - Benevolence and Universalism
Chaotic Good - Universalism and Self-Direction
Chaotic Neutral - Self-Direction and Stimulation
Chaotic Evil - Hedonism
Neutral Evil - Achievement and Power
Lawful Evil - Power and Security
Lawful Neutral - Security and Conformity/Tradition


* *




*Self-Direction* - Independent thought and action; choosing, creating, exploring. Associated single values are: freedom, creativity, independence, choosing one's own goals, being curious, having self-respect.

*Stimulation* - Excitement, novelty, and challenge in life. Associate single values are: having an exciting and varied life, being daring.

*Hedonism* - Pleasure and sensuous gratification for oneself. Associated single values are: experiencing pleasure and enjoying life.

*Achievement* - Personal success through demonstrating competence according to social standards. Associated single values are: being ambitious, influential, capable, successful, intelligence, and having self-respect.

*Power* - Social status and prestige, control or dominance over people and resources. Associate single values are: having social power, wealth, and authority, preserving one's own public image, and having social recognition.

*Security* - Safety, harmony, and stability of society, of relationships, and of self. Associate single values are: ensuring national security, reciprocation of favors, ensuring family security, having a sense of belonging, preserving the social order, being healthy and clean.

*Conformity* - Restraint of actions, inclinations, and impulses likely to upset or harm others and violate social expectations or norms. Associated single values are: being obedient, having self-discipline, being polite, honoring parents and elders.

*Tradition* - Respect, commitment, and acceptance of the customs and ideas that traditional culture or religion provide the self. Associated single values are: respecting tradition, being devout, accepting one's own portion in life, being humble, and taking life in moderation.

*Benevolence* - Preserving and enhancing the welfare of those with whom one is in frequent personal contact (the "in-group"). Associated single values are: being helpful, responsible, forgiving, honest loyal, and having mature love for others and true friendships.

*Universalism* - Understanding, appreciation, tolerance, and protection for the welfare of all people and for nature. Associated single values are: advancing equality, being one with nature, having wisdom, filling the world with beauty, advancing social justice, being broad-minded, protecting the environment, and see the world at peace.




Conformity/Tradition: 1+6
Benevolence: 2+9
Universalism: 4+9
Self-Direction: 4+5
Stimulation: 7+8
Hedonism: 2+7
Achievement: 3+5
Power: 3+8
Security: 1+6

Type 1: Security and Conformity/Tradition ⟶ Lawful Neutral
Type 2: Benevolence and Hedonism ⟶ Chaotic Evil and Lawful Good and Neutral Good and True Neutral
Type 3: Achievement and Power ⟶ Neutral Evil
Type 4: Universalism and Self-Direction ⟶ Chaotic Good
Type 5: Self-Direction and Achievement ⟶ Chaotic Neutral and Neutral Evil and Chaotic Good and True Neutral
Type 6: Security and Conformity/Tradition ⟶ Lawful Neutral
Type 7: Stimulation and Hedonism ⟶ Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Evil
Type 8: Stimulation and Power ⟶ Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil and Chaotic Neutral and True Neutral
Type 9: Benevolence and Universalism ⟶ Neutral Good

Translating this the other way:

Lawful Good: Type 2
Lawful Neutral: Type 1, Type 6
Lawful Evil: Type 8
Neutral Good: Type 2, Type 9
True Neutral: Any, however; Type 2, Type 5, Type 8
Neutral Evil: Type 3, Type 5, Type 8
Chaotic Good: Type 4, Type 5
Chaotic Neutral: Type 5, Type 7, Type 8
Chaotic Evil: Type 2, Type 7

Conclusion: Fun experiment, but not that useful in appliance.


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> It is enjoying the harming/killing and harming/killing for enjoyment that is evil.


The fox is enjoying itself by killing chickens, so it's evil to the chicken. That's from a predator-prey relationship.

In the personality perspective, determined is "evil" compared to "neutral", when you look out for yourself and others, and "good", when you consider the benefit of everyone.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Eset said:


> Several ways you can look at this.
> 
> If we go by these definitions:
> 
> ...


My head is hurting. You should make a TLDR version for us.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> The fox is enjoying itself by killing chickens, so it's evil to the chicken. That's from a predator-prey relationship.
> 
> In the personality perspective, determined is "evil" compared to "neutral", when you look out for yourself and others, and "good", when you consider the benefit of everyone.


How do you know it is enjoying the killing?


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> How do you know it is enjoying the killing?


The same way a dog enjoys itself when chewing up its favorite dog toy.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> The same way a dog enjoys itself when chewing up its favorite dog toy.


The article says it is due to reflex, caching instinct.

Why do foxes kill all the chickens in a hen-house? | Merseyside BioBank

Consider "evil" like deliberately picking on someone to bully, condescend, ostracize, beat, kill them just for fun and self-empowerment.


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> The article says it is due to reflex, caching instinct.
> 
> Why do foxes kill all the chickens in a hen-house? | Merseyside BioBank
> 
> Consider "evil" like deliberately picking on someone to bully, condescend, ostracize, beat, kill them just for fun and self-empowerment.


Evil is typed as "Determined", when you compare it to Neutral or Good


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> Evil is typed as "Determined", when you compare it to Neutral or Good


"Determined" IMO is a misnomer. I understand what the author is saying, but to me it feels like he is whitewashing the evil concept or failing to grasp the essence of it. 

The nomenclature is important in terms of identifying which enneagram type to associate with which attitude.

For evil attitude, I would rather define it as *malicious* (imagine it like what *malicious software* does to your PC). *Inhumane* would do too. You do not call malicious software as "determined" software.


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> "Determined" IMO is a misnomer. I understand what the author is saying, but to me it feels like he is whitewashing the evil concept or failing to grasp the essence of it.
> 
> The nomenclature is important in terms of identifying which enneagram type to associate with which attitude.
> 
> ...


People who are "Evil" are determined to get what they want, even if doing so harms others, so the term fits compared to the other two, Humane (for Good) and Practical (for Neutral).


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sparky said:


> People who are "Evil" are determined to get what they want, even if doing so harms others, so the term fits compared to the other two, Humane (for Good) and Practical (for Neutral).


You don't need to be evil to be determined.


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## ezekielchambers1 (Sep 4, 2021)

Yeah I do think enneagram relates to moral alignment ( I will be using the 5x5 model in my theory.) but I only think that the “law” part of alignment relates to enneagram. So for lawful: 9, 1 and 2 enneagram types because these types are very strict on the rules and definitely hate disorder. For the social alignment I would say 6 and 8 because they can be destructive at times but still have a preference to order. And for the neutral alignment we have 3 because this type couldn’t care less, they only care about other people and if that means breaking the rules they don’t care. For rebel we got 4 and 5 because these types break the normal and are labelled “weird” but they love this and so they break the rules but would never think of crossing the line. And then we got the chaotic 7… these guys break the rules at every opportunity this doesn’t mean they are inherently bad they just have a free spirit. P:S This is obviously not 100% accurate just a rough guess on where they may fall. P:S:S this is just my opinion so don’t take anything personally.


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## Sparky (Mar 15, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> You don't need to be evil to be determined.


There are misguided people, and people who are more focused on the self instead of how others feel, so "evil" can be defined in terms of how it hinders soul development, like through kidnapping, harming through drug or substance abuse, torture, murder, or suicide.

Moral Alignment defines Determined as "Evil" in a fun manner, which is not to be taken seriously. It basically says these people "know what they want and how to get it", which is not necessarily a bad thing.


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