# ENTJ girl having trouble finding a relationship



## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks! I have tried to post a link to the ENTJ forum but my forum rank is too low, I can't post links...





Sovereign said:


> @OLaLa
> 
> This thread is interesting. If you want more good dialog, I'd suggest putting this in ENTJ. We have a lot of very smart, mature individuals among all the ENTJs and INTJs that lurk our boards. That said, we've already had a number of wise responses from individuals like @MsBossyPants and @n2freedom, so I guess they found you anyway. :happy:
> 
> ...


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

> I'd suggest putting this in ENTJ. We have a lot of very smart, mature individuals among all the ENTJs and INTJs that lurk our boards.


I find this insulting to the dimwitted and immature ENTJs and INTJs lurking our boards. :tongue:


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## Palaver (Jan 5, 2010)

Enough about individuals and personalities--those internal locus of control. I personally don't put much stock in western approaches to understanding social phenomena--needlessly personal and complicated.

What can be said about demographics, location, and culture? There is an unfounded assumption that we're always operating in a fair or common environment.

@OLaLa Have you mapped out the sexual landscape? What is locally in demand and what are you offering? Have your methods been consistent with your goals?


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the inputs. I just wanted to see if there is anything extremely off about me, and I guess I am fine. 

There are probably many reasons to why the dates are not working out: I could be unlucky, I might not have projected a right attitude, I could came across as a bit too bossy, and I could have flirted more etc. All these are saying I am still too young and inexperienced in the serious dating game. 

I will take it easy, and just let it happen. I agree it is not generally a good idea to put on a mask just to attract guys - they can probably detect a 'fakeness' about you. I should probably think less and go with the flow. It is only a few dates with a few guys within a few weeks...it is not a competition.

So, yea. I think I've found the answers I was looking for.


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## Humilis Curator (Feb 26, 2010)

Drop your ego. Be you, not what you think makes you, you.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

Humilis Curator said:


> Drop your ego. Be you, not what you think makes you, you.


Hey, I'm surprised it only took 5 pages for someone to bring the obvious up.

Anyway, I'm outta here before the real shit show starts.


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

^ *clamps chains*
please stay, watch.... ^_^

I like simplified as well, I only disagree with the 5 pages part. Its just a boiled down version of all the things people have been saying in their own way.


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## frenchie (Jul 7, 2011)

I love ENTJ women. 

I know one and while she's hot in her own way, I thoroughly enjoy the subtle flirting her and I do from time to time. If I was single, I would really enjoy the chase of getting such a girl. That challenge makes it all the more attractive in my opinion, especially trying to outwit an ENTJ which is always an epic adventure in word play. 

I wish I knew more.

On an unrelated note, I broke out a thesaurus to flirt with a girl. I don't know if women like it or not, but frankly I don't care. It is almost like being a lawyer but with people's emotions, evoking all sorts of different things just based on word play alone. roud:


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

It sounds a little too blunt, but I agree it is probably the truth. 



Humilis Curator said:


> Drop your ego. Be you, not what you think makes you, you.


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

Good to know! Thanks!



frenchie said:


> I love ENTJ women.
> 
> I know one and while she's hot in her own way, I thoroughly enjoy the subtle flirting her and I do from time to time. If i'd be single, I would really enjoy the chase of getting such a girl. That challenge makes it all the more attractive in my opinion, especially trying to outwit an ENTJ which is an adventure in word play.
> 
> ...


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

OLaLa said:


> I agree it is not generally a good idea to put on a mask just to attract guys - they can probably detect a 'fakeness' about you. I should probably think less and go with the flow. It is only a few dates with a few guys within a few weeks...it is not a competition.


As a fairly mature ISTJ, I fool myself into thinking that I can smell fakeness/bullshit a mile away. 

That said, the immature guys would not detect it so easily - and the mature would likely be put off, as you suggest.


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## Humilis Curator (Feb 26, 2010)

OLaLa said:


> It sounds a little too blunt, but I agree it is probably the truth.


Don't focus on the things that you do so much. Focus on who the person is inside of you. In the end, people fall in love with other people and things about that person, secondly what that person does. While the two are very similar and closely related, there is an important distinction that has large implications. How many people do you know or have heard of that stays in love with someone while they do something that they hate? 

Personal goal for you. Next date, do not talk about things you do in your work/education career unless it is entirely important and asked by your date or directly related to the topic being discussed. Do not bring it up yourself. You may ask them about what they do and their education because to an extent those things do matter of who a person is internally but only to an extent. 

Do you want to be a person defined by who you are INTERNALLY or what you do EXTERNALLY, the internal self should fuel the external self, the external shouldn't dominate/overshadow over the internal. The arms and the legs should be seen as an extension of the heart and mind, as a whole, not the arms legs alone with the rest hidden behind a facade held up by the arms and legs. 

A person will want to date you for the person you are, not the things you do. If a person wants to date you only for what you do and not you, I would rethink the attraction.

I do not mean this with any malice or ill will, it is only with the best of intentions so please, take them as such. If you or anyone wishes me to clarify or to elaborate on any of this I would be happy to. 

Best of luck in your dating endeavors.


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

WELL...have a new date this Friday. He is pretty bold himself...and a little bit older. I acted myself (after receiving the feedbacks from this forum) and he seems to like it (a strong bold woman).


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

Yup. I guess age does play a role in how people perceive things.




Yardiff Bey said:


> As a fairly mature ISTJ, I fool myself into thinking that I can smell fakeness/bullshit a mile away.
> 
> That said, the immature guys would not detect it so easily - and the mature would likely be put off, as you suggest.


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## Kylar (Nov 8, 2011)

OLaLa said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am not sure why, but I seem to have trouble finding a boyfriend.
> 
> ...


Duh!! it's because the men you dated actually weren't good enough for you. Look for someone with a strong drive that is intelligent. But don't make yourself too easy when you find them they want to know you are good enough for them too.


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## Quinlan (Apr 18, 2011)

People are looking for a partner they can relate to on first dates. That said, it sounds like you are treating these dates like they are first interviews by selling yourself and trying to stand out like you are the best candidate with the most potential. Don't get me wrong, these are excellent interview tactics. I just don't think you should use them on a date.

First of all, don't stand out so much (at least not in the way you have been). That might be confusing but let me explain. I think the first date is more like the second or third interview. They already know you've got all the qualifications. Now they just want to know if you are a good fit within the team. You mentioned much of the conversation you focused on your long-term career plans and your master's thesis. 

Is this really the type of information you want him walking away with on a first date? Is he going to be able to relate to you on a personal level based on this type of impression? If you want a partner that will then at least you know what you are looking for. I'd say go on a date with a professor because I'm sure he'll cream his pants as you talk about the intricacies of your master's thesis. Or, you could try being appealing on a more general level so it is relate-able. Talk about being a person with a high level of motivation, being an astute pupil, having a career-driven attitude, or even mention being financially secure is something that is important to you. After you gear your conversations so he can relate to you, you'll secure more dates and you'll be able to reveal more specific details about the different areas of your life.

Lastly, if nothing else I've said applies then at least this should. It isn't a bad thing that people don't want to go on a second date with you and it certainly doesn't mean you not date-able. If none of what I said applies to your situation then you probably just haven't found the right person yet. But, you have to expect the more you refine your type that fewer people will fit it.


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## Miss Scarlet (Jul 26, 2010)

We have the same problems.

We SCARE the crap out of them!


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks this is actually very insightful.



qjshanley said:


> People are looking for a partner they can relate to on first dates. That said, it sounds like you are treating these dates like they are first interviews by selling yourself and trying to stand out like you are the best candidate with the most potential. Don't get me wrong, these are excellent interview tactics. I just don't think you should use them on a date.
> 
> First of all, don't stand out so much (at least not in the way you have been). That might be confusing but let me explain. I think the first date is more like the second or third interview. They already know you've got all the qualifications. Now they just want to know if you are a good fit within the team. You mentioned much of the conversation you focused on your long-term career plans and your master's thesis.
> 
> ...


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

Sort of always thought that is the case, but still couldn't bring myself to believe it is actually the case.

The latest guy I went on a date with specifically told me that ('you are very smart, bold and hot), now I believe it is the real 'problem'. 

Just gotten asked out by a friend (known him for awhile now but he never acted interested). That just confirmed my 'problem' - I might be a little bit intimidating, so it took him a long time to make up his mind. 



ENTJwillruletheworld said:


> We have the same problems.
> 
> We SCARE the crap out of them!


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

MXZCCT said:


> Most men cannot handle smarts and beauty into one package. You intimidate them. They realize how "deep" you are on the inside and they think "holy shit. This gorgeous woman is much more than eye candy." To put it blunty, you out class them and they know it. You seem pretty straight forward as well. So you push them on their heels.
> 
> Don't let that bother you. They can't handle a girl like you.


I've not yet read beyond the first two posts, but why are you equating intelligence and/or academ ic achievement with depth? Her post frankly implies otherwise, what with her fixation upon her "sultry" "curves", willingness to prolong a relationship simply for sex, and frankly also the love of clubbing which, while certainly not wrong doesn't exactly offer much intellectual or spiritual entertainment or growth.


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## MXZCCT (May 29, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> I've not yet read beyond the first two posts, but why are you equating intelligence and/or academ ic achievement with depth? Her post frankly implies otherwise, what with her fixation upon her "sultry" "curves", willingness to prolong a relationship simply for sex, and frankly also the love of clubbing which, while certainly not wrong doesn't exactly offer much intellectual or spiritual entertainment or growth.


Depth as in her knowledge of her career, which she talks about a lot if I remember correctly. Its been a while since I've been on this thread. Its not a fixation as much as an observation. What's wrong with stating how attractive her body is? And I doubt she would be posting this thread about "relationship" if all she wanted was sex. With her good looks, I doubt it would be a problem. She's doing the clubbing thing, I assume, is to get a better feel for socializing to an extent.

I'm responding from memory, so I may be missing a few things.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

redmanXNTP said:


> I've not yet read beyond the first two posts, but why are you equating intelligence and/or academ ic achievement with depth? Her post frankly implies otherwise, what with her fixation upon her "sultry" "curves", willingness to prolong a relationship simply for sex, and frankly also the love of clubbing which, while certainly not wrong doesn't exactly offer much intellectual or spiritual entertainment or growth.


All I'm wondering currently is why you specifically picked his post, because there was whole lot more weird stuff going on this thread until like page 5. You should read it, and be perplexed like I was - I couldn't help but go "what to fuck", fully bamboozled. At some point I even suspected the OP to pull some Jedi mind tricks.

Then I hit the booze, because it was too much to take.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

MXZCCT said:


> Depth as in her knowledge of her career, which she talks about a lot if I remember correctly. Its been a while since I've been on this thread. Its not a fixation as much as an observation. What's wrong with stating how attractive her body is? And I doubt she would be posting this thread about "relationship" if all she wanted was sex. With her good looks, I doubt it would be a problem. She's doing the clubbing thing, I assume, is to get a better feel for socializing to an extent.
> 
> I'm responding from memory, so I may be missing a few things.


I'm happy to read more, and will, but the point was that I was finding so many points of departure in her original post, and frankly disagreed with my read of your post that I quoted, so I just went ahead and replied. I'm not picking on you. 

As for "fixation", it may be too strong of a word but I think you'd agree that her physical appearance was a centerpiece of her thinking as expressed in her original post. That's the point I was making on that.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

Ok, I've read the thread. Here's my thoughts:

@OLaLa, you sound as though the vibe you give off on first dates ranges from "woman on a mission (to marry)" and the-princess-who-deigns-to-mix-with-the-unwashed. If you are giving the impression that you are doing someone a favor by bothering to go out on a date with them, you will drive them away. There's a fine line between "confidence" and "assertiveness" versus arrogance and self-centeredness. A nice thing to remember in any get-to-know-you situation is that your ears are as important as your mouth. Use them to get to know your audience and ask follow up questions about things they tell you about themselves. It's going to soften you up and make you look a lot less arrogant.

ENTJ's are probably, as a group, the highest achievers among the NT's, at least as that tends to be defined professionally and socially. By that I mean that they like to be out front and leading, and they therefore gain the most credit for their efforts and successes. This has pitfalls, however. ENTJ's in my experience also tend to be the most status-conscious and materialistic of the NT's, tend to be (and willing to express) the most impatience with others as a group, and tend to measure the value of others based upon their "usefulness" (e.g. career potential or achievement) rather than in a more nuanced and empathetic way that recognizes talents in areas other than those that the ENTJ might naturally value. For example, an ENTJ dating an "artist type" would be a relatively unusual match in my experience. 

ENTJ's also in my experience tend to place more value in material things that reinforce their social/career status (such as making sure that they buy a nice BMW when they get that promotion, yes to reward themselves, but also as a new badge for their higher status). 

It's not that I'm saying ENTJ's are shallow as a group - they're not. Instead what I'm addressing is the impression that a lot of your natural traits/tendencies will leave upon someone who you are inviting into a much more personal, much less formal relationship than ENTJ's are classically comfortable dealing with. A showdown with an insubordinate employee? Bring it on! A critical presentation to a potential new client? I live for this! Being willing to open up to someone and trust them enough to admit to them that I don't feel like I'm as talented as two other people I'm competing with for something? Eh....

Also, and this is very much related to what I've laid out above, ENTJ's are VERY controlling socially. When I'm reading you saying "confident and assertive" and envisioning you looking controlling, dominating the conversation, pressuring the other person for answers, all while presenting yourself as someone who knows exactly what she wants. 

I would suspect that you could land someone who doesn't mind being controlled by you. I'm also sure that you'd grow extremely bored and frustrated and even angry with such a person long term. Likewise, you probably don't want someone who mirrors you. You need to feel like you're the top dog, and that's fine (you admitted as much and that's good), so you probably can't coexist with another overachieving ENTJ. 

You need to evaluate what's important to you. I think you need to be mentally challenged by a partner. Another NT would do this, although there are smart people of every personality type. 

I also suspect that you could use someone who could counterbalance you and soften you up, someone who empathizes with others better than you do. NF's are good matches for NT's as they often are very good intellectual/theoretical thinkers who can dork out with us on those nerdy things we like to talk about, while at the same time being less judgmental about people, making us recognize that there are other types of intelligence and achievement, and drawing we often stone-hearted NT's out emotionally. 

These are VERY general MBTI thoughts, but they're decent general things to have in your mind to use to check yourself and determine what it is you want. 

I'll finish just by voicing agreement with Duck of Death. Stop looking. Seriously. I have no idea why you think that 23 years of age means "time to marry". Marriage isn't a race - it's far more important to do marriage right than to do it fast. The latter leads to nothing but misery. 

Yes, that's a challenge as a woman who (presumably) wants kids and feels the pressure of your biological clock, but ask yourself whether in 10-15 years you want to be getting divorced with one or more under-10 year old children in the picture, and having to sort out a new personal life while still trying to maintain the professional life you're trying to build for yourself. That scenario is the downside of rushing.


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## MXZCCT (May 29, 2011)

redmanXNTP said:


> I'm happy to read more, and will, but the point was that I was finding so many points of departure in her original post, and frankly disagreed with my read of your post that I quoted, so I just went ahead and replied. I'm not picking on you.
> 
> As for "fixation", it may be too strong of a word but I think you'd agree that her physical appearance was a centerpiece of her thinking as expressed in her original post. That's the point I was making on that.


I didn't think you were "picking" on me. Its just a post. Well, to me I think she was using her physical appearance as a "given" and used it as part of an argument as to why she is having trouble.


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

I like how a 'disagreement' between you and a fellow forum user led you to write this huge reply. They are decent answers, so I am glad. 




redmanXNTP said:


> Ok, I've read the thread. Here's my thoughts:
> 
> @OLaLa, you sound as though the vibe you give off on first dates ranges from "woman on a mission (to marry)" and the-princess-who-deigns-to-mix-with-the-unwashed. If you are giving the impression that you are doing someone a favor by bothering to go out on a date with them, you will drive them away. There's a fine line between "confidence" and "assertiveness" versus arrogance and self-centeredness. A nice thing to remember in any get-to-know-you situation is that your ears are as important as your mouth. Use them to get to know your audience and ask follow up questions about things they tell you about themselves. It's going to soften you up and make you look a lot less arrogant.
> 
> ...


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

OLaLa said:


> I like how a 'disagreement' between you and a fellow forum user led you to write this huge reply. They are decent answers, so I am glad.


One more thought- you undoubtedly "dress for success" in the work/school environment, trying to convey the image of yourself that you want in that context: presentable, competent, professional, charismatic, organized, etc. That's a very ENTJ thing to do, very much fitting with an ENTJ's typical traits of rational leadership of others in a position of prominence in an organization. (YMMV, of course, but I'm playing the odds here.)

Why don't you apply the same ideas to "dress for success" dating? You dress "hot". Don't wonder why men don't see your substance - I don't think you're doing all you can to invite them to and in fact dressing "hot" is a power play, throwing down the gauntlet of beauty and in-your-face "confidence" (read "arrogance"). Could you be more intimidating on a first date if you tried? 

Don't dress down, but dress comfortable in a way that's natural to you, and also presentable of course. Define that as you will.


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## jnader (Jul 26, 2011)

i just read the first post... im also a ENTJ female and i know what you mean when you say the guy isnt good enough for you.... start looking towards older accomplished men... i find that they appreciate our ambition and goals... and we can actually respect them which is a huge deal, at least for me... im 22 dating a 35 INFP.. its interesting so far but it seems to work, and this personality pairing is supposed to be the most ideal and balanced for us... even if this guy doesnt work out i will never date too close to my age again


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## Shampoocat (Aug 11, 2011)

Female ENTJ here and dating for 7 years a wonderful ENTJ boyfriend. We match so perfectly...it is a bliss. I just can be myself, which is just wonderful, because being a petite Asian cute looking little girl, people first think that I am superficial fluffy girl until they get to know better (and then they are shocked!). In my opinions, SPs are a absolute no-go for us ENTJs, because their laid-back, superficial go-with-the-flow, short-term thinking personality is totally contrary to our goal-driven, achieving type. NFs are great for intellectual discussions, but beware of their emotions (they scare the hell out of me!). I am not very familiar with the SJ type, but probably also not so much my cup-of-tea. ENTJ-ENTJ rules! Just wonder if hell breaks out if our children turn out to be S or F...I probably have to hire a S or F nanny to compensate.


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

OLaLa said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am not sure why, but I seem to have trouble finding a boyfriend.
> 
> ...


Perhaps the sex seemed like something they had to actually work for. 

Just another outlook.


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## boblikesoup (Nov 26, 2011)

Relationships are one of those things that come when you least suspect them. My last two girlfriends were at times when I was really happy in life and not expecting to have a gf. It's important to acknowledge that a relationship seems rosy from the other side (and at the beginning), but you will eventually get used to it and life will go on. You need to be fully happy with yourself before somebody else will be. 

Overall, don't feel bad about the dating because the odds are highly stacked against you: most men are looking for primarily submissive types (you are not), and feeler types (which you are not). Many men are intimidated by the beauty-brains combo (which you claim to have), and your standards are very high (which significantly few men will meet). Finally, you are only 23. Personality aside, at best, 1% of men are compatible with you.

Dating is easier for F's too, they simply create emotional connections faster. Because formal dating is so straightforward, my assumption is the guys you dated didn't feel a *click* after 1-2 dates, so assumed it wasn't going to work out. This seems to have already gotten through to you, but don't feel you need to prove yourself to them (and all that implies), it's a matter of compatibility, it's there or it isn't. 

I can take you out some time and give you some better feedback


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## frenchie (Jul 7, 2011)

Ohhla, just relax. You sound like a girl I'd talk to if we met out at the bars. 

Personally, it's going to be easier to find one night stands than long term relationships especially with where you're going. 

Just smile and be cool with yourself. You obviously are, and when you find friends or guys who are like, "yo you're fun" don't be afriad to say, "hey I like you." 

It's alright to feel like you're living in high school again. If you're intimidating then show the soft sided belly that you have by admiting something like egads feelings!


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## Runvardh (May 17, 2011)

Sorry for the late post... OP sounds like someone I'd keep and show to mom.


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## BroNerd (Nov 27, 2010)

I know this is a somewhat older post.
However, I guess the problem could stem from two things.
1.) Some guys don't think they are "good enough" for you.
2.) You may be playing the "I want to seem hard-to-get but am obviously not hard-to-get" game with guys..those kinds of games guys don't like..it makes such a girl seem less attractive and annoying. 
Overall, I don't know, if you acted like how you did in the OP and you showed interest in a second date, I would probably go on that second date.
However, I'm different from a lot of other guys. I would respond to your ambitions positively and talk about my own ambitions.


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the feedback, they are not late at all! 

I have gone out with another guy after the last post, and the new date didn't work out again. This guy was a good friend of one of my good male friend (sorry for the tongue twister), well-educated and a few years older. We hung out in groups a few times: drinking, smoking, talking about politics and cruising around the city late nights etc. He took me out on one date (a live comedy show) and that was the end. It was the end because he stood me up the second date. I was livid.

Maybe some of them just want sex/are intimated/not interested/ego-tripping, whatever the case, it means one thing - a lack of compatibility. There are a few theories as to why this keeps on happening to me, but the best thing I've concluded so far is to stop thinking about it. I appreciate the feedback and I enjoy talking about the possibilities because these things are very complicated and are open to all kinds of postulations. So feel free to continue comment on the thread if it entertains you lol. Realistically, at this point, I am just going to stop thinking about it and hopefully, it will happen when I am not expecting.


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## OLaLa (Oct 27, 2011)

I really like what you said here. I especially like it when you used probability in explaining the odds lol - the numbers, although very rough, give me a very clear understanding of the problem. It is funny too lol!

I'd like to hear more comments if you are willing to give. 



boblikesoup said:


> Relationships are one of those things that come when you least suspect them. My last two girlfriends were at times when I was really happy in life and not expecting to have a gf. It's important to acknowledge that a relationship seems rosy from the other side (and at the beginning), but you will eventually get used to it and life will go on. You need to be fully happy with yourself before somebody else will be.
> 
> Overall, don't feel bad about the dating because the odds are highly stacked against you: most men are looking for primarily submissive types (you are not), and feeler types (which you are not). Many men are intimidated by the beauty-brains combo (which you claim to have), and your standards are very high (which significantly few men will meet). Finally, you are only 23. Personality aside, at best, 1% of men are compatible with you.
> 
> ...


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## changos (Nov 21, 2011)

OLaLa said:


> I am wondering if it is because I came across as too ambitions and too much of a boss lady (by talking about career plans etc). But my physique is very feminine, shouldn't that make everything tolerable/okay?
> 
> Any feedback/comment are appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.


 Hi OLaLa, I can only guess. Got to know several girls who match your description, each one of them was different but had something in common. Dated a few of them, no I don't get scared of this type of woman but I discovered something. Don't take this as Im saying you are one of these cases and yes, this also happens to guys.


Group A? got to know a few who were really ambitious and when they talk about their career they sounded naive more than anything. From my point of view sounded like they had no clue on how to get where they wanted, it might be because they didn't, or maybe couldn't explain their plans as needed. To many guys, including me, when we hear somebody wanting something but little description of how, we get nervous, doesn't sound right. Years later I find that none of them are where they wanted to be, none of them reached their goals except two. One of the two reached high academic levels but she has problems getting a good job (you know, at the level of her achievements and goals). The other one is another story, she is amazing but we guys get the feeling she behaves like a "male friend", nothing bad.

Group B? a few of the ambitious women I got to know described really well their plans, so well that to certain point I had no clue why were they dating or sitting next to me, I mean, there was no time for a relationship, not because they told me so but because I couldn't see anyone fitting on their agenda, in fact the few dates I had (and other friends with similar girls) sounded more like "appointments" instead of dates. Yes, this group reached the places they wanted. And yes, some other guys felt intimidated. In my case I like to work but I try to find balance between work and fun, personal life and relationships, it's not easy for me because I really like my work.

Grou C? this would be a mix of A+B, the thing I got as different is not regarding their plans, but how they talked. I mean, take per example the expression "by talking about career plans". Explaining you plans requires a lot of "I want... then I .... I will.... and then I... because I". Lots of "I" that while not bad, it might sound strange. I guess there is a limit on how much someone can talk this way right at the beginning (or middle) of the relationship. I'm not saying this is wrong, just that it might be so exciting that *we all might* lose track of how much we talk about it, compared to "we, my family, my pet" etc.

I wouldn't ignore the fact that many guys can't stand a woman who is more successfull. These are only wild guesses based on what I remember about some female friends. I would suggest leaving those topics for later because despite being what you want to do, it's not you, is what you do and it doesn't define you in the whole extent of words. I would suggest to talk more (not instead) about fun stuff you do to relax yourself, the opposite of work, and your goals as a human being not regarding work, not involving work. Some guys (just like you girls) talk around many topics trying to measure the social skills and abilities needed on a relationship, kids, pets, etc.


There is one girl I dated who is my long time friend, she sounded too focused on "stuff", material stuff. It took me years to really get that she is not really interested on that but she sounds like that, and all our mutual friends think the same. That's why sometimes I tell people to ask (I do that too) who OTHERS think should date them, why? not asking for advice, it's just a way to get the idea others have about you, right or wrong is useful to get their indirect impressions.

Just my two cents.


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## vt1099ace (Jun 8, 2009)

OLaLa said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am not sure why, but I seem to have trouble finding a boyfriend.
> 
> ...


Do you even know what you your looking for in a guy? 
not just the usual age/height/race/blah, blah, blah stuff...But personality? intelligence? interests? 

If you _really_ want a LTBF time to focus and define your parameters.

imho


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## manbearpig0 (Oct 10, 2011)

sounds like you need an Intj.
lets hook up.


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## MyName (Oct 23, 2009)

Mr. Manbearpig sounds like he is mostly just the last one. The OP should have a nice chat with me instead. :happy:


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## DMack (Aug 16, 2011)

My mom is an ENTJ, my dad was an INTJ/P (Not sure he passed away when I was young and before I became familiar with MBTI). He was about 8 years older than she was. My best friend is a INFP and he is dating a ENTJ right now, both of whom are in their late 30s.

Just from this exposure to ENTJ women I'd say you need to find a man you can respect, which as said before may mean an older man. You'll need to tone down your inner drive to fix or improve him and you'll need to find something that interests you outside of work and school. You'll need a life.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

DMack said:


> My mom is an ENTJ, my dad was an INTJ/P (Not sure he passed away when I was young and before I became familiar with MBTI). He was about 8 years older than she was. My best friend is a INFP and he is dating a ENTJ right now, both of whom are in their late 30s.
> 
> Just from this exposure to ENTJ women I'd say you need to find a man you can respect, which as said before may mean an older man. You'll need to tone down your inner drive to fix or improve him and you'll need to find something that interests you outside of work and school. You'll need a life.


I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I'll probably have to marry a man 5+ years older than me. I've found that older people in general arent put off by my strong willed nature. Though, he'd still have to be an NT. And he'd definitely have to let me be myself, and not try to force change in me. I'm pretty stubborn, though I will "grow", but it happens at my own pace.


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## intjmax (Mar 5, 2012)

It would most likely account for incompatibilities in a relationship, especially when you are seeking for a long term relationship or a marriage. They might have sensed that you were not attracting to them with the characteristics that you possess. There are many reasons as to why they did not respond back to you, such as their long term goals and what they want in a family or in terms of success are different from yours. Other than that, they probably also sense intimidation from you and that's probably what they didn't want in a partner if they're being mentally or intellectually challenged on a frequent basis and it might get tiring eventually. It's simply because it wasn't meant to be.


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## JoeChip (Feb 28, 2012)

Hello Chipps,
I think you're right about the age difference. If you're in your 20's and your dates are in their 20's, this is likely a big part of it. When you hit your 30's and 40's you'll understand <giggle>. By comparison, I don't think most people knew if they were coming or going at that age, and you'll be amazed at how much more together even you'll be in just another 8-10 years of life. I know that I was a big furball/mess at that age by comparison to now... as was just about everyone I've ever known.

The advice to date, relax and have fun is great advice. I'd also try to work you're instinctual variants into the picture. If you're sp/so, you may need to work on portraying a little more sx, which may simply be taking a more fun-loving drive to simply be close to someone.

The good news is that ENTJs, depending on their enneagram type (and you're an 8, so you have it), later in life can be relationship magnets. There is a natural charisma and confidence that is irresistible to mature people. The problem is that you're in an peer age group that doesn't have that level of maturity yet. There are surely a few, but they will be rare, hard to find and likely not friends of your friends. We seek certain kinds of relationship dynamics in buddy-type friends and those can rarely be compatible intimately, so their friends by this same nature are usually not the best choices for us.

You might want to try hanging out in places you likely never would prior. As you're an sp-dom, taking a walk on the wild side would be very, very hard for you but I'd bet you that you'd find a really good match on that side of things.

Good luck!


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## JohnGalt (Nov 5, 2011)

At 23, you are probably more "together" and success-oriented than most people your age. Most guys your age just want someone weak-willed to laugh at their jokes, go along with what they want to do, get drunk and spread her legs. Older guys are one option. Another is just to look within your school/work circles for equally ambitious people. Find someone who can match your awesomeness, challenge each other, and see where it goes.

Chase down that arch-nemesis in your field and make it your goal to get him in bed.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

JoeChip said:


> Hello Chipps,
> I think you're right about the age difference. If you're in your 20's and your dates are in their 20's, this is likely a big part of it. When you hit your 30's and 40's you'll understand <giggle>. By comparison, I don't think most people knew if they were coming or going at that age, and you'll be amazed at how much more together even you'll be in just another 8-10 years of life. I know that I was a big furball/mess at that age by comparison to now... as was just about everyone I've ever known.
> 
> The advice to date, relax and have fun is great advice. I'd also try to work you're instinctual variants into the picture. If you're sp/so, you may need to work on portraying a little more sx, which may simply be taking a more fun-loving drive to simply be close to someone.
> ...



One thing though, I'm demisexual, so playing up the whole sx thing probably wouldn't work out too well. I'm a risk taker and I like to have fun but I avoid risks that don't have any gains. Doing something just to do it isn't in my vocabulary. Why? Because to me, its a waste of my time. Not say my time is all planned away and shit like other TJs but that I wouldn't get wasted and do some crazy shit just to do it. I assume people do these things because they derive pleasure from it? I've tried to live on the wild side before, but it isn't me. Not to say Im a warm blanket but having a couple of drinks and a good conversation trumps a loud party/bar/event any day.

I not an extreme self preservationist, but I do always have my back covered 10 fold. I have to have thing lined up well in advance. I have to have multiple options in case of failure. I have to make sure I take care of me first, because no one else will. I still haven't figured out how to people into my world. Its like a garden, and only I know how to properly tend to it. 

I wish I could play up the Sx. I really do. Just like I wish I was and 8 with a 9 wing instead of a 7. I wish I was Sx dom and I wish I wasn't demisexual. It would make everything a lot easier when it comes to dating. But so would being SF as opposed to NT as a woman. Nature really shit the bed on this one. The fact is that it will be difficult to choose a mate, when I don't experience primary sexual attraction PLUS, I'd need someone who didn't try to control me, had their shit together, has a strong character, is intellectually driven and has a sense of humor. Also Id like to add I'm 2 inches taller than the average american male, so finding all of that and someone who is taller than me, or someone comfortable with dating a taller women seems like I've got a slim slim chance.


Excuse me while I go pick out a few cats to adopt.


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## Shades of Gray (Jan 13, 2012)

manbearpig0 said:


> sounds like you need an Intj.
> lets hook up.


Cheer up, it seems like this guy is pretty into you; he joined the forum just to post this, apparently.


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## JoeChip (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi again Chipps,
Well, I can't agree with you when you say nature shit the bed with you. I think you're being a bit harsh on yourself, don't you think? I'm really sorry this period of time is hard for you, but please believe that things will be VERY different in just a few years!

If I were 20 years younger, it would have taken chains to keep me away from someone like you. Demisexual is what intelligent guys want since women where the initial attraction is purely sexual are dumped in a matter of weeks. Think about it- what kind of respect can someone have for someone else when they jump into bed without any kind of emotional or intellectual connection? It says volumes about the character and standards of the other person. The problem is, lots of young guys are all for this and chase mainly those that lack substance since they just want to get laid. 

When young, some of us might play this game for a while, but it's more destructive and dangerous than it is fun. Besides, after a few weeks, most guys playing this game dump the chic since that whole piece/"what standards could there be here?" is missing. So while you think you're missing out, chances are pretty good you are only missing getting dumped by some pukes and possibly some nasty STDs. 

Trade up a few years and you're going to have more fun than you can handle, but with guys that have a lot more to offer and vice-versa.

I only mentioned playing up the sx thing so you might snare a smarter hotty NOW. Once you have them trapped with your charms, I'm sure you could finagle them long enough to get them to see the real you and then they'd be hopelessly hooked. But I'd bet you'd be the one dumping them as most wouldn't be up to YOUR standards. 

And while I may be hopelessly biased at 6'5", I can say that tall women are incredibly sexy.

You're an ENTJ and your world should be awash with possibilities. In a way this is a good thing since it will be a good exercise for your to start taking advantage of your incredible perception, your 8w7 talents for reading people, and your general NT savvy. I'm just very sorry it hurts for now. I can only say I do really feel for you and I hope things get better soon for you!


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## manbearpig0 (Oct 10, 2011)

Shades of Gray said:


> Cheer up, it seems like this guy is pretty into you; he joined the forum just to post this, apparently.


Haha woah slow down there tiger. I had this account for months, This thread was just the first one i found interesting enough for me to respond to. 
Yours is second =P


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

> Haha woah slow down there tiger. I had this account for months, This thread was just the first one i found interesting enough for me to respond to.
> Yours is second =P


The cat is out the bag now, own it. If you like a tigress, don't get shy on us now ^_^.

Now starting the @OLaLa & @manbearpig0 fan club, accepting new applicants now. I'm cheering for you.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

You didn't give me enough info to say for sure, so I could be wrong, but I am guessing that you might have come on like a job interview of "sold yourself" to degree that impressing the dude with your wonderful assets, looks, sex appeal, smarts, education, over-rode establishing a connection. If he looks nervous, did you smile inwards to yourself and say, "Good, I'm having an effect", and then carry on making him nervous, which will send him signals you lack emotional empathy and he will disconnected from you, or did you touch his hand, make an endearing joke, share something that made yourself a little more vulnerable or tried to comfort him with being gentle/evening the score by maknig yourself seem "more human". You can have all the things on paper, but if a guy is going out of his way to go on blind dates, he normally isn't looking for a fuck, he's looking for a relationship, and there's lots of other smart hot girls... he wants someone he can fall in love with.

Were you emotionally open/charming? To be honset, you sounded like a robot. Hot, check, smart, check, I should be able to get anyone I want! Well, that depends who you went on the date with. Some people just want those "surface criteria" or are only aware of those, but not most looking for a long term fufilling relationship. If you came off to them the way you did on this forum, not very self-aware but _mostly not aware of others_ with not a lot of depth, then they probably weren't interested bceause they didn't feel there was anything more to your "battle plan" approach.

But I am sure there is emotional depth, vulnerability, and other forms of intelligence in there, so you just have to change your writing/speaking style to show them.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

thor odinson said:


> Do Yes it's no secret that men can and do get intimidated by strong women. But it goes both ways, it's not just their ego that gets in the way, they may be also picking up on your end of things to.
> 
> .


 This.
You need to give yourself some substance girl, and also more genuiness. Not only be your real self, but also try to expose yourself. I feel like that's something you don't do very often.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

OLaLa said:


> Thanks for your post.
> 
> *I genuinely want a relationship - I am 23 and I think I should have a serious/long term relationship. I have to confess, it is one of those things I want to check off my list.* I do well in other aspects of life and right now, I think I want to work on my relationships. Not to sound sexist, but I think as a woman, it is important to do well in the relationship department as well. It is an amazing skill to have if you can catch a guy with ease. So, I feel inadequate because I can't seem to get these guys that I laid my eyes on; I feel like I failed my *seduction skills. *
> 
> Of course, I definitely want to experience a warm and loving relationship with a nice man. Who doesn't?


There's nothign wrong with this kind of thinking, it is partly how we all think to SOME degree, well, infps not so much. This is exactly what N2freedom was saying... not, do you want a relationship, but reflect on why?
You just want a reltaionship because that's what people do. That shows a lack of real chemistry.... the guy would show up for the second date if there was something happening under the sruface pulling his heartstrings!!

and the way you reduce these men to targets, to "seduce" instead of "relate to", is the key teller of where you are going wrong. You shouldn't have to seduce. That makes it suond like "if I play the game X way I can get any guy I want". Most people do not think that way when it comes to love. Most people would resent being treated as a tricky puzzle if you wear the right clothes or say the right script they will love you. They wanted their mate to be mroe genuine and love them for who they really are. So show them that side of you intead of worring about these clothes, these jobs, those things are really immaterial to the type of relationship you want. You are looking for a real, intimate relationship, and that kind of connection does not CARE about such shallow things.

Hey why don't you play the experiment-- the next date, try to be vulnerable. As in, share something that makes you look weak, admit to somethng shameful, or your in the moment feelings.

For example, what you've been saying to us, "this dating thing is disheartenign I don't know what I'm doing wrong"

share that with a guy, see what happens.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

Duck_of_Death said:


> *You're too reliant on the superficial aspects of yourself. Self-assured confidence is the greatest natural aphrodisiac for both women and men alike. Naturally confident people don't "sell" themselves to others. You're signaling "loser" behavior, despite your attractiveness and ability to cut a swath in the business world.
> *
> .


I agree. By coming on like you're reading a script of how loev should go, you make it painfully obvious you dno't know how. I think, this will sound paradoxical to you, stop treating them like a job interview (which is how you described it, which is painfully telling, clue, DATING IS NOT A JOB INTERVIEW) and start working on being vulnerable, genuine, yourself, and honest, and charming.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

OLaLa said:


> The first dates we (or I ) most mostly talked about generic stuff, such as what my career plans are/how is my current thesis going.
> 
> We never got to the point where I could tell them about the things I have done, or show them my dare devil side. I don't want to scare them away or feel outcompeted.
> 
> But thanks for the compliment!


Question, why the I?
Did he not talk?
You know that's bad right?

Also sorry for spamming you. I replied then started readng the rest of the thread and uh got quote happy.


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## JollyBard (Feb 19, 2012)

OLaLa said:


> Physically, I am considered to be a very sultry girl (coming from many male friends). [..] I dressed well - not over the top but definitely clothing that showed off my killer curves.


I think we're gonna need some visual aid. You know, to better understand the problem.

My advice is that you're trying to hard. You can't force a relationship, you can't change people, they either like you or not. Just wait until you find the right guy (but don't just sit at home, alone, you gotta meet people).


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

@adverseaffects

yes mom, but what if I'm a kinky man that likes robot women?? 

Being vulnerable and genuine isn't always about the subject or 'the what' your talking about. Its about sharing the why, the personal experience or emotions it makes you feel. So you love your career that is great, talk about what it makes you feel or a personal story about an event at work that impacted you greatly. That is true depth, your emotions and stories are thing people can connect too.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

kudi said:


> @adverseaffects
> 
> yes mom, but what if I'm a kinky man that likes robot women??
> 
> Being vulnerable and genuine isn't always about the subject or 'the what' your talking about. Its about sharing the why, the personal experience or emotions it makes you feel. So you love your career that is great, talk about what it makes you feel or a personal story about an event at work that impacted you greatly. That is true depth, your emotions and stories are thing people can connect too.


Lol "mom"... sorry for being a know it all XD It's the internet, I can force people to listen to me? no, I can't? darn.

Well yeah, if that really gets her going inside her soul, but like her dressing a certain way to win the guy, from what I've heard so far even her career is only a prop to being the type of person "she should be" and talking about it in part what she's interested in, but not for any deep emotional reaosn, and partly because having career, like having a boyfriend, and then talking about them,_ is just what people do._ That's not WRONG at all, she's right adn it'll get her far in life, but well, that's not all you're looking for on a date... I'm not entirely sure what's going wrong, but obviously something is. This could be it.

Guessing the OP is a type 3?


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

JoeChip said:


> Hi again Chipps,
> Well, I can't agree with you when you say nature shit the bed with you. I think you're being a bit harsh on yourself, don't you think? I'm really sorry this period of time is hard for you, but please believe that things will be VERY different in just a few years!
> 
> If I were 20 years younger, it would have taken chains to keep me away from someone like you. Demisexual is what intelligent guys want since women where the initial attraction is purely sexual are dumped in a matter of weeks. Think about it- what kind of respect can someone have for someone else when they jump into bed without any kind of emotional or intellectual connection? It says volumes about the character and standards of the other person. The problem is, lots of young guys are all for this and chase mainly those that lack substance since they just want to get laid.
> ...


I'll actually be going out of the country here soon, so dating might be on the back burner for a few years. Though, I'm only 22 now, so it not like it will kill me or anything. I actually like the freedom of not currently being in a relationship because my last one helped me learn exactly what I did not want in a partner. My last bf as an ISFP and there were red flags from the start (I realized like that later) and it burned out pretty quickly though we stayed together for over a year. He was a good person, but we didn't click mentally. 

I also don't like dating for fun. I have no idea why people do that. Again, it seems to be a waste of time to me. Im very particular about the people I keep around me, so "dating for fun" would mean having to screen a fuck ton of random people, and I don't care to do that. So right now, I'm enjoying being single, and plan to stay that way for a few years. I have some things I want to do and a relationship would get in the way of that. Though, since Ill be 26 when I come back the US, I think its smart to start thinking about what I want for the future now. 

Though I can only base my assumptions about the future on how I've been treated up to this point in my life. I guess Im still waiting for people to grow out of "it". I read a lot of blogs about dating a relationships and it seems that a lot of men never grow out of wanting the bubbly, playful, overtly feminine woman. I can't even call myself strong, independent and opinionated because so many women have absolutely ruined those words. 

Im quite interested to see how I will grow over the next few years, and how people will perceive me. I do hope what you say is true and that men grow out of it, but I still think I am a pretty acquired taste so I might as well go ahead and be myself as to not give people the wrong idea about who I am. Im waiting for that day that my personality and demeanor becomes the cream of the crop. 

Just the whole process of having to find a mate turns me off. I just want someone Im compatible with so we can live a happy life together. I don't want to be wanted by 10, 100, 1000 different men. I don't care about that. I just want one good one. Just one. I've recently decided that I will remain single and only date someone I think I am compatible with. I wont spend on second with someone Im not.

Lol All of that sounds so empty and logical. There would have been passion there if I wasn't typing it. 

Lastly, you're 6'5 which means you're taller than what 99% of men? Im sure its not hard for you to get a woman. Short women LOVE tall men. They pursue them very aggressively or so I have heard. Even a lot of tall guys don't want to date tall women.


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## manbearpig0 (Oct 10, 2011)

kudi said:


> The cat is out the bag now, own it. If you like a tigress, don't get shy on us now ^_^.
> 
> Now starting the @OLaLa & @manbearpig0 fan club, accepting new applicants now. I'm cheering for you.
> 
> Haha idk if she can handle my intjness though =]


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