# Hannibal Lecter is NOT a Psychopath



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

look at his behavior as a child. at an early age he is very protective of his younger sister and clearly cares for her. he is a sociopath, not a psychopath.


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## bellisaurius (Jan 18, 2012)

Interesting point. It's actually brought up in red dragon, when dr chilton calls him a "pure sociopath", although it also states that he doesn't fit any psychological profile. 

That said, had I not researched, I would have thought psycopath too, but would have to explain why he liked clariceunless it was some weird whim.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

bellisaurius said:


> Interesting point. It's actually brought up in red dragon, when dr chilton calls him a "pure sociopath", although it also states that he doesn't fit any psychological profile.
> 
> That said, had I not researched, I would have thought psycopath too, but would have to explain why he liked clariceunless it was some weird whim.


the first 10 minutes of Hannibal Rising are enough to completely disprove him being a true psychopath. when you consider the next part of the movie when he is at the orphanage, his first murder is understandable as well (I might have killed that bastard too lol)


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

He can't be a sociopath, he is to intelligent and knows how to control himself.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Obsidean said:


> He can't be a sociopath, he is to intelligent and knows how to control himself.


sociopaths can be intelligent and control themselves. it's psychopaths who are unable to control themselves. are you saying he was neither?


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> sociopaths can be intelligent and control themselves. it's psychopaths who are unable to control themselves. are you saying he was neither?


You have it around the wrong way man. Psychopaths are the manipulative smart ones and sociopaths are the ones who cannot control themselves.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Obsidean said:


> You have it around the wrong way man. Psychopaths are the manipulative smart ones and sociopaths are the ones who cannot control themselves.


actually I think there are varieties of both. Hannibal can't be a psychopath though. he cared for his family when he was younger. psychopathy is completely genetic and psychopaths are incapable for caring for someone at any point in their lives


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> actually I think there are varieties of both. Hannibal can't be a psychopath though. he cared for his family when he was younger. psychopathy is completely genetic and psychopaths are incapable for caring for someone at any point in their lives


You could argue that because of what he went through as a young child (eating his own little sister) could have severely messed his neural-chemistry up and thus, turning him into a psychopath. Also, he could have had a genetic predisposition for psychopathy but it did not activate until he went through such a traumatic event. I'm going choose the latter explanation.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Obsidean said:


> You could argue that because of what he went through as a young child (eating his own little sister) could have severely messed his neural-chemistry up and thus, turning him into a psychopath. Also, he could have had a genetic predisposition for psychopathy but it did not activate until he went through such a traumatic event. I'm going choose the latter explanation.


psychopathy is more than a disposition, it is directly correlated with genetics. you are born a psychopath or you are not. someone who suffers psychological trauma and develops psychopathic tendencies is a sociopath


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## Obsidean (Mar 24, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> psychopathy is more than a disposition, it is directly correlated with genetics. you are born a psychopath or you are not. someone who suffers psychological trauma and develops psychopathic tendencies is a sociopath


It is still my belief that he cannot be a sociopath, however, your theory on sociopaths cannot be disputed.


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## jeffbobs (Jan 27, 2012)

I would say principled sociopath, he has reasons for the things he does, Almost like someone has broken his own rules he has set in place in his mind, So principled sociopath....


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

@Obsidean and @Swordsman of Mana

I admit that I have not done much research on the subtle differences between a psychopath and a sociopath, might you cite some referenes please?


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Obsidean said:


> You could argue that because of what he went through as a young child (eating his own little sister) could have severely messed his neural-chemistry up and thus, turning him into a psychopath. Also, he could have had a genetic predisposition for psychopathy but it did not activate until he went through such a traumatic event. I'm going choose the latter explanation.


I think I've discounted later movies from the official pantheon, since it seemed to become a muddled mess psychologically.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

L_Lawliet said:


> @Obsidean and @Swordsman of Mana
> 
> I admit that I have not done much research on the subtle differences between a psychopath and a sociopath, might you cite some referenes please?


the difference is black and white. 
- psychopathy is 100% genetic
- sociopahty is not 100% genetic but may/may not be a genetic predisposition


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> the difference is black and white.
> - psychopathy is 100% genetic
> - sociopahty is not 100% genetic but may/may not be a genetic predisposition


-.- that's not really what I meant....

I could tell you that the reason is red and blue, not to be mean or anything but I would prefer a few different sources to back up your claim. The more people that say the same thing the more cause there is to look into what they are saying (not to say that they are right as the masses have been wrong before). 

As I said, it's not that I don't trust you but it's that....well... I just don't trust anybody really.


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## Near Lawliet (Apr 21, 2011)

I may have to side with Obsidian on this one. Also @L_Lawliet, here is a link that may help you with the subtle differences. 

What is the Difference Between a Psychopath and a Sociopath?


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## MissyMaroon (Feb 24, 2010)

I don't know what the hell he is, but I don't think he's either.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

I swear, I'm becoming the forum's de facto expert on psychopaths since I have to constantly clear up all the myths here. :laughing:

For the record, the term that was originally coined was psychopath. Then sociopath came to replace it, but was the exact same thing, just a different word. Then Antisocial Personality Disorder came to replace that. To many in the psychological community, all three are the exact same thing and can be used interchangeably. To others, psychopathy and sociopathy are two distinct subsets of APD. The difference being that psychopaths are born, sociopaths are made. The reality of the situation is, you could talk to 100 therapists and get 100 different definitions for these terms. APD is in the DSM, but sociopath and psychopath are not. They are more theoretical constructs at this time. Most of the things generally accepted about them are being challenged constantly. For example, it has long been believed that psychopaths have no empathy at all. Research from neuroscience shows that the only people that truly and completely lack empathy are people that had certain parts of their brain damaged. Additionally, most of what is "known" about them are Hollywood created myths. Not all are geniuses, they range in intelligence just as much as anybody else. They come from all backgrounds, they have loads of different belief systems, etc.


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## Christina Breann (May 8, 2011)

Obsidean said:


> You have it around the wrong way man. Psychopaths are the manipulative smart ones and sociopaths are the ones who cannot control themselves.



I have a thread about sociopaths and narcissists, where we had some research pulled on "http://personalitycafe.com/general-psychology/85866-what-constitutes-sociopath.html "



> 1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM -- the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example. >
> 2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH -- a grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.
> 3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.
> 4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.
> ...


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> look at his behavior as a child. at an early age he is very protective of his younger sister and clearly cares for her. he is a sociopath, not a psychopath.


It's a movie, so it doesn't matter. The movie was meant to be enjoyed and not analyzed.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

josue0098 said:


> It's a movie, so it doesn't matter. The movie was meant to be enjoyed and not analyzed.


movies _are_ meant to be analyzed, just like every other form of mentally stimulating entertainment. of course, no one is forcing you to, but is is a legitimate use. it was one of the first things we talked about in a theater course I took in college. theater is meant to be discussed and encourage intellectually stimulating conversation and analyzation falls under that category (though to be precise, movies are not considered theater because they are not live performances, but I think the same principle holds true)
of course, one does have to bear in mind that fiction, even fiction very similar to reality, is still fiction. if this was your point, consider it made. 
PS: not trying to bring type into this, but the fact that this argument is coming from a Ti dom 5w6 (about as analyzing a temperament as you can get) is humorously ironic


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> movies _are_ meant to be analyzed, just like every other form of mentally stimulating entertainment. of course, no one is forcing you to, but is is a legitimate use. it was one of the first things we talked about in a theater course I took in college. theater is meant to be discussed and encourage intellectually stimulating conversation and analyzation falls under that category (though to be precise, movies are not considered theater because they are not live performances, but I think the same principle holds true)
> of course, one does have to bear in mind that fiction, even fiction very similar to reality, is still fiction. if this was your point, consider it made.
> PS: not trying to bring type into this, but the fact that this argument is coming from a Ti dom 5w6 (about as analyzing a temperament as you can get) is humorously ironic


Hm. Well, I see movies as my brain resting time...

Also.. My Ti is very underdeveloped... :S I put 5w6, but I had originally put 5w4... I'm not really sure on which one fits me best. Anyways... Yeah. I forgot what I was gonna say.


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## danimal245 (Jun 25, 2013)

In the books, it clearly states that he defies both psychopathy and sociopathy and can only be considered to be a monster. His intelligence and traumatic childhood experience combined and created a soulless monster. Personally, based on some of the scenes and passages from the book, I think he fits the mold for "genius sociopath" He has no conscience but can fake any emotion when he needs to. He can charm and manipulate as easy as someone ties there shoe. He controls every conversation he has with people, executes extremely elaborate and long machinations to kill people or set them up. He blood pressure stayed at 84 beats per minute while he attacked a nurse and bit her nose off (That's definitely a trait of psychopathology) As for psychopaths, some do feel emotions of protecting loved ones and can feel empathy without really "feeling" any of the pain.. He just understands the mind, and can basically psychoanalyze someone after a single chat where it would take others weeks of sessions. Always thinking, planning, and considering contingencies. But, beneath the surface, he is a savage, cannibalistic, sadistic monster with extreme cunning and intelligence. I'd rank him a 38 on the PCL-R


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## angeleyes (Feb 20, 2013)

Malignant Narcissist (?)
He's also a fictional character, which can muddy up the water somewhat.


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## dvnj22 (Apr 24, 2013)

Psychopaths have been able to show genuine love and compassion to their families.


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## danimal245 (Jun 25, 2013)

Wow... first of all.. I am impressed that you just threw out "malignant narcissist" and many aspects of Hannibal's personality fit. But, I see American Psycho of more of the narcissistic psycho since he's obsessive and paranoid, and arrogant where Hannibal is confident. Hannibal seems to always stay calm and under control and could easily pass a polygraph or manipulate the police since he wouldn't show any signs of anxiety or fear. Nice disorder to bring up though; they do seem very similar, but I see the malignant narcissist being more confrontational and quick to get violent instead of using cunning and deception to do what they as "necessary" Both types definitely would deny having a psychological "disorder" and use therapy to improve their manipulative skills and practice their lying and other behaviors.. I need to read back up on Malignant Narcissist... haven't heard that in so long...


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## danimal245 (Jun 25, 2013)

True, but if it came down to their survival, their true colors would show.. Psychopaths are born without a conscience, sociopaths have their conscience molded by traumatic or childhood influences, but when it comes to family, I guess I do have to agree with you; just look at the Borgia family... haha.. Cesare was ruthlessly protective of his family, but also one of the darkest sociopaths of the Renaissance, he had to be pretty badass though to become the subject matter of Machiavelli's The Prince... chapter seven of The Prince has some of Cesare's most "masterful deceptions" as described by Machiavelli... impressive brilliance, but brutal savagery and absolutely no remorse, but he did love his family.


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## danimal245 (Jun 25, 2013)

So with the PCL-R, does the patient answer the questions, or does the psychologist analyze the patient over a period of several sessions and answer the question for him? A psychopath WILL lie on just about any test, and try to get into the doctors head, OR the psychologist will answer the questions subjectively to satisfy his own diagnosis.... like that shit sheriff Donny Youngblood in Bakersfield who defended 8 of his officers that killed a man on camera that was already cooperating with police by beating him for over 10 minutes; pretty viral on the web right now.. but the sheriff is ALSO the coroner, and guess what the coroner report said... Natural causes... FBI is involved now... But I digress.... just curious about how the PCL-R is administered


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

I completely agree that Hannibal Lecter is a sociopath. All evidence points to this, especially the superficial charm and manipulation he has mastered. Anyone watch the tv show Hannibal? I love it...but I also love Red Dragon and Silence of the Lambs.


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

I work in Psych. A Sociopath is some one who does not feel as deeply as a normal people do. They do indeed feel, however, not as deeply nor do they feel the high and lows that we feel. Psychopaths are crazy Sociopaths. Sociopaths are around us every where. They are Judges, Criminal Defense Attorneys, Surgeons, and Administrators. Anywhere they need to not feel as much to be able to do their jobs. You meet these people every single day. They are either very successful or total losers. Hannibal is NOT a Psychopath, he is a Sociopath. If you want to learn more, read The Sociopath Next Door.


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## Watch Key Phone (Mar 29, 2013)

~There is no difference between psychopaths and sociopaths~

~They are both outdated words and no longer medical diagnoses~


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## killerB (Jan 14, 2010)

Watch Key Phone said:


> ~There is no difference between psychopaths and sociopaths~
> 
> ~They are both outdated words and no longer medical diagnoses~


You are partially correct. The new term is Anti-Social Personality Disorder. There IS a difference however, that being something to do with the formation of personality and heredity. Sometimes the Psych docs will refer to the older terms however, for ease of understanding or use.(more layman friendly I guess). Also, the terms have just pretty recently changed, in the new DSM so the new Psych students are being taught the Anti-Social term.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/112693/psychopathy-versus-sociopathy.pdf

A little pdf file that is very interesting.


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## OldManRivers (Mar 22, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> look at his behavior as a child. at an early age he is very protective of his younger sister and clearly cares for her. he is a sociopath, not a psychopath.
> 
> 
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## Sunn (Mar 12, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> look at his behavior as a child. at an early age he is very protective of his younger sister and clearly cares for her. he is a sociopath, not a psychopath.


They both represent Antisocial behaviors but while one is a learned condition, the other is not. Look again at the term sociopath -- It has the word Socio. Socio entails partnership or relation to others around you which imply's outside learning because of social relations, implying reasoning skills which points toward LEARNED behavior because of life complications with the culture around said individual.

YES he may have been a sociopath but psychopaths are in the same boat as far as debate go's because the end result is the same. They both represent Antisocial behaviors like said before but while Socio is more towards learning Psycho is more of a mental flaw or a disregard for social mores, norms and laws based on society for the well being of others as a whole. 

They both willing break all of these rules because of some rational they create inside of their head; learned or not. 

It's almost like comparing Snow peas to Snap peas just because of how they function while they're still in the same family.

I hope this all made sense and that I didn't stray too far off topic.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

Hannibal Lecture is a fictional character and like most fictional characters he is dramatized and exaggerated to fit the needs of the story. The observer is on a need to know basis only. For example: We have no idea if Lecture likes to read while he shits.. Just saying..
He is certainly a "caricature" of a sociopath..


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