# feminist porn? No that dosent mean girl on girl. Bit of a rant hehe



## abitsilly (Mar 4, 2010)

What do women do when they feel horney and they havn't got a man around?
Are there any good porn sites on the net where the women arn't tossed around like peices of meat or objectified?

God please my queendom for a good porn, no barbie sluts or oap men, and theres way too much fake tan.
What do you think of porn today, is it living up to your expectations?
Maybe women are getting thinner and bigger breasts because of the standard today, porn telling men to choose this kind of woman and reject the ones with smaller tits and bigger bodys (god forbid we should have hips!)
Is the picture of a forty year old man with grey hair and a 20 year old the norm for you? It certainly isn't for me. Do you see extremely fat men with young skinny women? No, well thats music videos for you.
While men still have control of media are we going to see the men get older and the women get younger? Are we going to see obese men with stick thin models?
Aren't we objectified already?
It makes me a bit miffed to think we have had to claw up from the times of religion where women were devil sluts, to now where we have jobs and rights. It makes me angry to think that when i get older i will be ignored and undervalued because i'm not youthful and a sexual object. I mean what am i worth if i can't look pretty for a man(sarcasm.)
Women are made to feel valueless and ugly because it makes mens lives a lot easier when a woman has low self esteem. And yes I have gone off from original point.
I'm not saying that life is harder for women than it is for men, but don't you find this all a little bit unfair? Women need to take control of the media and actually put good looking men on the t.v instead of the ugly old ones. And less beautiful makeup'd 20 year old women.
Show women out there in every country that they do have value as a human being. Being different dosen't make you ugly and that whatever happens you'll still be loved.:happy:

I wish for once I could actually walk down the street without being looked at like a peice of meat commented on like a prize cow or chatted up by the most masogynistic men possible.


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

You are aware that there is feminist porn right? It's usually made by women and it's actually pretty awesome. Also a bunch of amateur home made porn shows normal girls and it's a lot less stereotypical. You just have to search better lol.

Also, you're taking the porn stereotypes a bit personal. High production quality porn has that stereotypical blonde big boobs stereotype, but when you got to amateur you have the full gamut of body types and girls. Most guys don't like the stereotypical blonde anyway. Additionally, if you begin to find the amateur girl getting thrown around to get to be too much they have home made, alt, and feminist porn that show the other spectrum of girls. The internet is filled with awesome stuff.


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## Monte (Feb 17, 2010)

Yeah, I think you need to look harder because I find it easy to get away from all that.


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## Drewbie (Apr 28, 2010)

Google 'I Feel Myself'. It's a good place to start. :wink:


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## antiant (Jul 4, 2010)

http://personalitycafe.com/venting/


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## Mandarr (Feb 5, 2011)

Didn't we just talk about this?


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## Nitou (Feb 3, 2010)

Suicide Girls. Soft-porn and girls only, but they're lovely.


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## Peripheral (Jan 8, 2011)

Life isn't fair, porn isn't real.

Besides, there's a lot less "misogynist" stuff out there, you just need to look.


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

Cruciferae said:


> Google 'I Feel Myself'. It's a good place to start. :wink:


I wanted to type this earlier, but I wasnt sure if this was allowed and all that. 

their videos are fucking awesome, just saying.


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## Calvaire (Nov 14, 2009)

I can't stand the female made porn it's all romantic story lines and not enough sex
Personally I'm fine with Porn today,although I mostly watch more BDSM orientated porn.....


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## Drewbie (Apr 28, 2010)

Calvaire said:


> I can't stand the female made porn it's all romantic story lines and not enough sex
> Personally I'm fine with Porn today,although I mostly watch more BDSM orientated porn.....


You are SO not watching the same female made porn as I am. I'm sorry. :frustrating:




Mr.Xl Vii said:


> I wanted to type this earlier, but I wasnt sure if this was allowed and all that.
> 
> their videos are fucking awesome, just saying.


I figured posting a link would be a no-no, but I don't see anything wrong with a suggestion. I could be wrong but I prefer to act first and apologize later if I mess up.


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

I forgot the other site that's really good. It is literally feminist porn. Its women pleasuring other women or a woman pleasuring herself. I totally forgot the name of it, sorry. If I find it, I'll let you know.


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## z5500x4 (Dec 7, 2010)

I heard of this one called, For the girls.


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## Mandarr (Feb 5, 2011)

I've seen some fucked up things in my day but this takes the cake.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

I've edited out that link, and would advise others not to post links to pornography, even if it is in the sex and relationships forum. Minors can still see this part of the forum.


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## timeless (Mar 20, 2010)

I don't think there can be such a thing as "feminist porn."


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

skycloud86 said:


> I've edited out that link, and would advise others not to post links to pornography, even if it is in the sex and relationships forum. Minors can still see this part of the forum.



Ahem, if it makes you feel any better... Beautiful Agony (for those who are interested!!) is not really a porn site. There are no genitals on that site. Did you see any?

So I will say it again, if you are interested in something beautiful and less pornographic/abusive, beautiful agony is a cool thing to search for.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

It's still an erotic and adult website.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

If you have problems with mainstream porn just stop watching it and look for amateur. Home videos and shit. No need to go off on a rant about society when it sounds to me like you've been watching your fair share of it anyway.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

Find "The Doll Underground". It's alt porn but the females are in charge and it's very different than any barbie porn like you mentioned.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

How is mainstream porn not feminist? SHE chooses to do a MAN she wants and she ENJOYS it and makes him fulfill her DESIRES.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> How is mainstream porn not feminist? SHE chooses to do a MAN she wants and she ENJOYS it and makes him fulfill her DESIRES.


It's not feminist enough unless he's DECAPITATED! D:< RAAAAAGE :crazy:


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

hziegel said:


> It's not feminist enough unless he's DECAPITATED! D:< RAAAAAGE :crazy:


I got just the thing










And just to ensure that heads roll no matter what...


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## Sali (Feb 9, 2011)

I find usually women prefer erotic literature.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> How is mainstream porn not feminist? SHE chooses to do a MAN she wants and she ENJOYS it and makes him fulfill her DESIRES.


Those are all rather arguable conclusions about the pornographic actress...


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## Sali (Feb 9, 2011)

Shahada said:


> Those are all rather arguable conclusions about the pornographic actress...


I don't really see how porn is anymore degrading to women than it is to men.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Sali said:


> I don't really see how porn is anymore degrading to women than it is to men.


Well I'd argue otherwise but that doesn't really have anything to do with what I was saying. I was just saying it's kind of silly to assume that every woman in the pornography industry loves her job and is doing her job because she made a decision to do something she loves, rather than out of economic necessity or convenience. Without even going into the relationship between pornography and human trafficking, this is still a rather big assumption. Why do people think every pornographic actress loves her job? Because it's sex and sex is "fun?" I love to cook, but I sure as hell hated the jobs I had where I cooked in restaurants. There's a big difference between sex you have for fun on your own time with someone you're presumably interested in (the idea that women in mainstream pornography choose who they want to perform with I'm pretty sure isn't correct, or at least, they don't choose who they perform with in the same way a person outside the industry would "choose" a sexual partner) and having sex for money in terms of enjoyment, fulfillment, "empowerment," etc.


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## Mandarr (Feb 5, 2011)

Shahada said:


> Well I'd argue otherwise but that doesn't really have anything to do with what I was saying. I was just saying it's kind of silly to assume that every woman in the pornography industry loves her job and is doing her job because she made a decision to do something she loves, rather than out of economic necessity or convenience. Without even going into the relationship between pornography and human trafficking, this is still a rather big assumption. Why do people think every pornographic actress loves her job? Because it's sex and sex is "fun?" I love to cook, but I sure as hell hated the jobs I had where I cooked in restaurants. There's a big difference between sex you have for fun on your own time with someone you're presumably interested in (the idea that women in mainstream pornography choose who they want to perform with I'm pretty sure isn't correct, or at least, they don't choose who they perform with in the same way a person outside the industry would "choose" a sexual partner) and having sex for money in terms of enjoyment, fulfillment, "empowerment," etc.


Most people don't like their jobs. I really don't see your point here.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Mandarr said:


> Most people don't like their jobs. I really don't see your point here.


I was responding to a post that implicitly claimed pornographic actresses do like their jobs.


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## timeless (Mar 20, 2010)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> How is mainstream porn not feminist? SHE chooses to do a MAN she wants and she ENJOYS it and makes him fulfill her DESIRES.


Even if all this is true (which I don't agree with), pornography is not perceived that way by it's audience. Pornography is inherently degrading to women, and this has been shown time and time again through studies. One study, off the top of my head, showed that men who were exposed to pornography were more lenient on a defendant in a simulated rape trial. Even watching non-violent pornography made the individual less sympathetic toward the victim, and thus more accepting of rape. This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the psychological effects of pornography; it encourages men to look at women more as objects than people. Link: Report of the Surgeon General's Workshop on Pornography and Public Health: Background Papers: 'Effects of Prolonged Consumption of Pornography' (August 4, 1986) (click the PDF button to read the whole study, the OCR version sucks.)


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Mainstream pornography is an acting career. It's not like they pick up some poor wench off the streets and offer her money for whoring herself out. There is a huge amount of competition in the field, and it's actually not that easy to be in the mainstream films - it's the equivalent of starring in a major Blockbuster except they get paid five times as much. I'm not saying they necessarily love the job requirements, but it's obviously something these people made a serious effort to get into.

Now, if you made the same argument about home films, I could see more of a point.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

hziegel said:


> Mainstream pornography is an acting career. It's not like they pick up some poor wench off the streets and offer her money for whoring herself out. There is a huge amount of competition in the field, and it's actually not that easy to be in the mainstream films - it's the equivalent of starring in a major Blockbuster except they get paid five times as much. I'm not saying they necessarily love the job requirements, but it's obviously something these people made a serious effort to get into.
> 
> Now, if you made the same argument about home films, I could see more of a point.


There's lots of pornography outside of the big production companies, in fact I'm pretty sure that makes up the majority of the worldwide pornography market. And a lot of those women are literally picked up off the street (I've known this to happen personally), and the vast majority are not paid very well. Women like Jenna Jameson who make millions are a very small minority among women in the pornography industry.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Shahada said:


> There's lots of pornography outside of the big production companies, in fact I'm pretty sure that makes up the majority of the worldwide pornography market. And a lot of those women are literally picked up off the street (I've known this to happen personally), and the vast majority are not paid very well. Women like Jenna Jameson who make millions are a very small minority among women in the pornography industry.


I know. I was confused at your post though, because I thought that we were talking about mainstream, and you implied that most of the women don't like their jobs.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Well I guess that depends on what you consider mainstream. The internet has greatly enhanced the ability of pornography producers to distribute their product and I think at this point, with the internet being omnipresent for about a decade and a half and pornography making up a huge portion of web searches/online real estate, it doesn't make much sense to limit mainstream pornography to the big slick production houses (not that everyone who works for them is making tons of money either).


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## Sali (Feb 9, 2011)

How is porn not degrading to men? It basically features men as disembodied giant phalluses.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Sali said:


> How is porn not degrading to men? It basically features men as disembodied giant phalluses.


Sorry if I find this argument a bit insincere, because the people who make it almost always are porn defenders and deny porn is generally degrading to women :tongue: I mean seriously, I can respect the position that pornography degrades men as well (though I think it's hard to argue its degrading to men to the same degree it is to women, in my opinion), but 99% of the time when someone makes this argument they're just responding to people saying porn is degrading to women and not really thinking out their position very well.

BTW, in regards to the main topic which I haven't really commented on: "feminist porn" is kind of tricky because of the semantics involved. Pornography almost by definition is exploitative, has no artistic or social value, etc. So I don't know if you can have "feminist porn" because it seems if you produce erotic material free of exploitation, degradation, etc. then it's almost by definition not pornography anymore and would be more appropriately categorized as "erotica" or something. So really to me it's just a question of semantics. I'll say that, in theory, it certainly seems like it's possible to make erotic material free of the exploitative power dynamics in pornography, it just seems like it'd be very difficult because it's so ingrained in the culture.


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## Sali (Feb 9, 2011)

Shahada said:


> Sorry if I find this argument a bit insincere, because the people who make it almost always are porn defenders and deny porn is generally degrading to women :tongue: I mean seriously, I can respect the position that pornography degrades men as well (though I think it's hard to argue its degrading to men to the same degree it is to women, in my opinion), but 99% of the time when someone makes this argument they're just responding to people saying porn is degrading to women and not really thinking out their position very well.
> 
> BTW, in regards to the main topic which I haven't really commented on: "feminist porn" is kind of tricky because of the semantics involved. Pornography almost by definition is exploitative, has no artistic or social value, etc. So I don't know if you can have "feminist porn" because it seems if you produce erotic material free of exploitation, degradation, etc. then it's almost by definition not pornography anymore and would be more appropriately categorized as "erotica" or something. So really to me it's just a question of semantics. I'll say that, in theory, it certainly seems like it's possible to make erotic material free of the exploitative power dynamics in pornography, it just seems like it'd be very difficult because it's so ingrained in the culture.


How is porn that features a dominatrix and a submissive man more degrading to women than it is to men?

I also don't see how porn in general with certain exceptions in the more extreme domination type genres could possibly be anymore degrading to women than it is to men, I mean most porn I've seen is just two people having sex. I also disagree with the notion that porn can't have artistic value for the same reason I disagree with the notion that are has to have no practical function which is a common thread among the art community.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

I'd answer your question, but first let's think about why you're asking it. Do you actually think femdom porn is degrading to men, and mainstream porn is degrading to men too, or are you just kind of flailing and looking to poke holes in my argument? Do you actually think these things are degrading to men and have moral objections to that, or is this just "Oh yeah? What about porn where men get whipped and hurt a lot by women?" I'm not sure you're willing to entertain the possibility that porn can be degrading to anyone, like I said in my last post these points seem more like a way to discredit minute particulars of my argument rather than the main ideas I'm presenting.

If you're being sincere I'd ask you to think about whether most femdom porn caters to male or female fantasies and go from there.


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## Sali (Feb 9, 2011)

I think femdom IS extremely degrading to men, I don't think most mainstream porn in which it is just two people having consensual sex is degrading to either gender with certain exceptions such as things like slapping or choking but I haven't really seen that kind of thing featured in mainstream commercial pizza boy type porn.

I'm not trying to poke holes in your argument I just think our society has an extremely unhealthy view in regards to women and sexuality in general, why is it assumed that men are the only people on the planet that care about sex. That obviously isn't true, our reasons for having sex may be different but women are just as, if not more so attracted to the prospect of sex as men are.

In regards to your question about whose fantasies femdom porn caters to it's probably submissive males, however that doesn't mean the man in the movie is a submissive male and it's defiantly degrading to that man. It's also not a sound argument because porn in general caters to men because men and women aren't attracted to sex for the same reasons, why do you think women like the concept of "romance" is popular among women? "romance" is the female version of sexual stimulation.


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Sali said:


> I think femdom IS extremely degrading to men, I don't think most mainstream porn in which it is just two people having consensual sex is degrading to either gender with certain exceptions such as things like slapping or choking but I haven't really seen that kind of thing featured in mainstream commercial pizza boy type porn.


If you honestly think niche femdom porn is more degrading to men than mainstream, typical porn is to women then I guess I just have a much different value system than you. They're both produced (for the most part) by and for men and cater to male fantasies and both reduce the woman to basically a vehicle of pleasure for the man, it's just in one the woman pleasures the man by dressing up in latex and beating him and in another the woman takes on a more submissive role*. This honestly seems more like an aversion you have to this particular kink than some kind of actual moral objection to the way men are treated in this type of pornography. 

*I'm speaking generally here, I'm willing to acknowledge when you get into niche fetishes a lot of the gender and power dynamics in mainstream porn can get fuzzier, but I think this description is applicable to most of the fetish porn produced by the big pornography production companies.


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## Laney (Feb 20, 2012)

CallSignOWL said:


> heh, ive been there enough to notice the lesbian trend. But that's what annoys me, it didnt use to. Now I have to flip through a page or two to find a new hetero vid


On other sites, 'instructional' videos are pretty female friendly too. Better music too.


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## Nomenclature (Aug 9, 2009)

laney said:


> @Nomenclature So basically realistic, mutually pleasurable sex.


Yeah, it's just that professionally done porn is unrealistic _because_ it's a show where the emphasis isn't on mutual pleasure... not to mention men who direct porn don't necessarily know what women want. 

Oh, oh. A name to look up: James Deen. Oh my jeez.


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## CallSignOWL (Jan 11, 2010)

laney said:


> On other sites, 'instructional' videos are pretty female friendly too. Better music too.


Im wary of traveling to unfamiliar sites because I dont know if they'll fuck up my computer or not


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## Hokahey (Oct 8, 2010)

Nomenclature said:


> not to mention men who direct porn don't necessarily know what women want.


Well there is so much porn out there. In reality I don't think any director could really "know" what the whole audience wants (men/women/gender neutral). 

"Realistic" and "believable" are two separate things.


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## Nomenclature (Aug 9, 2009)

Hokahey said:


> Well there is so much porn out there. In reality I don't think any director could really "know" what the whole audience wants (men/women/gender neutral).
> 
> "Realistic" and "believable" are two separate things.


Nah, I never claimed mind-reading.  I'm just talking about how men in (mainstream and heterosexual) porn are cast on penis size and muscle tone as the biggest factors, because that's what many of the directors just _assume_ that women want most. We're more or less agreeing that the audience's wants vary.

This guy comes along,










and the question is raised of why there aren't more guys like him in mainstream porn, when women clearly want them there.


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## MonogamyIsNice (Mar 21, 2012)

You know you're objectifying yourself with masturbation, right? And with make-up, if I'm really feeling like an instigator, though this is not to assume that you do apply it! You seem confused about what sex is. You want it but you think its a reason to get indignant. Being an object and using someone as an object is hot as fuck. It's sex, not an uplifting conversation about womens rights. I think you're trying to mix the two. What's worse is that you seem to have no respect for the feminists who find a complete embrace of sexuality as the raw act that it is as a part of feminism. You have more of the prudish, uptight angle about it on this one. I've seen plenty of feminists give a good screeching to chicks that pump out the kind of stuff you have here =x


Wiki page for Feminist Views on Pornography


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## Hokahey (Oct 8, 2010)

MonogamyIsLame said:


> You know you're objectifying yourself with masturbation, right?


How is anyone objectifying oneself with masturbation?


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## MonogamyIsNice (Mar 21, 2012)

Hokahey said:


> How is anyone objectifying oneself with masturbation?


Masturbation is the use of self for sexual pleasure. Sex is the use of another. These are acts of use, where the body is the object being used, for the purpose of sexual gratification. How is anyone not objectifying themselves with masturbation, if they're objectifying others by using them for the same thing?


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

I actually wrote a research paper on feminist sex work in 2006 so I'm pulling some of what I'm saying from that. I have mixed feelings on the matter. I dont think it's realistic to want or think that porn will disappear and I dont think it's realistic to think all feminists or all women have an issue with it. I for one, don't get much out of erotica but love dirty, sexy, feminist porn. 

Karen Ciclitira conducted a study in 2004 interviewing women, many of whom considered themselves feminist, to explore women's experiences and views of pornography. Many of the women interviewed cited Andrea Dworkin's earlier work as having a more powerful effect on their opinions than the pornography itself. Dworkin maintains that sexual desire is an expression of irrational and unconscious wishes that we can have no control over. *Some women explained how they felt Dworkin and other anti-porn activists simplified the complexities of the debate, citing their own changing positions of pornography as evidence of these complications.* Others reported how the anti-porn views made them question their identification as feminists. Nine of thirty-four women noted their conflicts between these views and their enjoyment of pornography and sometimes their enjoyment of sex. *Some women discussed how they still enjoyed porn despite disagreeing with it politically. Discouraged by the lack of alternatives to mainstream porn and the nature of what is available, some women still view what is only accessible. *

Anti-porn feminism is not as common as it was fifteen or twenty years ago; more and more people who identify as feminist are seeing this debate is not one or two-sided, but pornography and sex work activism and anti-activism affects different women in a variety of ways. What Dworkin and Mackinnon did do was bring to light the issue of female sexuality, although not directly. Critiques of their work have brought attention to the fact that most mainstream pornography is male oriented *with little or no interest in how women are represented and if women may be taking part in the viewing. *In light of female sexuality becoming more visible, some feminists realize that maybe objectification is not inherently bad, but that most people objectify their partners in intimate relationships at least some of the time. As Betty Rollin said, "Scratch most feminists and underneath there is a woman who longs to be a sex object. The difference is that is not all she longs to be." 

Rather then trying to abolish porn and sex work, feminists seem to be realizing that taking power and control of the industry is going to be the first step to change. I can see this happening now with organizations like COYOTE. There are also web logs, journals, and communities popping up all over the internet in support of sex workers. The Sex Workers Art Show is currently making the rounds in the US offering insight and commentary about the lives of strippers, prostitutes, dommes, film stars, phone sex operators, internet models, etc. This is clearly an area that many people want to explore. 

Personally, I find theorists like Dworkin and McKinnon to be outdated and I think they also have a poor understanding of how complex the issue of sex work and porn is. There's an interesting documentary that I own called "Feminist Pornography" - it does a decent job of going into what is feminist porn and also talks about the Toronto Feminist Pornography Awards (I love Good For Her and hit it up every time I'm in Toronto). I know someone else already posted their criteria, but it says more or less what I believe:



> 1) A woman had a hand in the production, writing, direction, etc. of the work.
> 2) It depicts genuine female pleasure
> 3) It expands the boundaries of sexual representation on film and challenges stereotypes that are often found in mainstream porn.
> And of course, it has to be hot!
> Overall, Feminist Porn Award winners tend to show movies that consider a female viewer from start to finish. This means that you are more likely to see active desire and consent, real orgasms, and women taking control of their own fantasies (even when that fantasy is to hand over that control).


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

Hokahey said:


> MonogamyIsLame said:
> 
> 
> > You know you're objectifying yourself with masturbation, right?
> ...


Immanuel Kant contended that masturbation was immoral because one uses one's self as a means rather than as an end.



> As one’s love of life is intended by nature for the preservation of his person, so is his sexual love intended for the preservation of his kind, i.e., each is a natural end. ... Now, the question arises whether the use of one’s sexual capacity, as far as the person himself who uses it is concerned, stands under a restrictive law of duty; or whether, not having the end of reproduction in view, he be authorized to devote the use of his sexual attributes to mere brute pleasure and not thereby be acting contrary to a duty to himself. ...
> 
> A lust is called unnatural when a man is stimulated not by an actual object but by imagining it, thus creating it himself unpurposively. For his fancy engenders a desire contrary to an end of nature and indeed contrary to an end more important even than that of the love of life, since it aims only at preserving the individual, while sexual love aims at the preservation of the whole species.
> 
> ...


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## MonogamyIsNice (Mar 21, 2012)

Master Mind said:


> Immanuel Kant contended that masturbation was immoral because one uses one's self as a means rather than as an end.


It's cool to hear him weighing in, and I thank you for the information on his person and beliefs here, but I think it's an obviously undeveloped perspective / product of his time and surroundings. Despite the wall of text that many a philosopher is adept at stringing together, there is no objective logic, just a windy justification of ones own sexual immaturity. Arbitrary standards for what man is intended for, based on what is, in his opinion, natural, remind me of many a codependent thinkers 'logic' for why things like homosexuality are morally wrong. Now that's "revolting", Kant.


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## Master Mind (Aug 15, 2011)

MonogamyIsLame said:


> It's cool to hear him weighing in, and I thank you for the information on his person and beliefs here, but I think it's an obviously undeveloped perspective / product of his time and surroundings. Despite the wall of text that many a philosopher is adept at stringing together, there is no objective logic, just a windy justification of ones own sexual immaturity. Arbitrary standards for what man is intended for, based on what is, in his opinion, natural, remind me of many a codependent thinkers 'logic' for why things like homosexuality are morally wrong. Now that's "revolting", Kant.


You didn't say this, but I just want to make it clear that I by no means agree with Kant on the supposed "immorality" of masturbation, I was just presenting a prominent philosopher's argument against it, and how it related to self-objectification.

As far as homosexuality, I've noticed that many arguments against it have been rooted in "natural law," and what is "natural," yet the fact that it _can_ be observed in nature makes the whole premise that it is "unnatural" flawed.


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## abitsilly (Mar 4, 2010)

I thank you all for your posts to this topic, some of which I dissagree with. I am not a feminist that stands in front of porn stores and stops people from going in as is a sterotype of feminists. I wish to convey a gap between expectations from men and women, as there seems to be greatly in music videos and porn. 
I am not a cono sur in these things but I use my eyes and my brain, and for me there is a discrepancy in porn which is the very centre of what teens expect sex to be like in the future and now, and not just porn (movies) also pictures in the media that are air brushed and stories about these women give a very unrealistic version of women. 
And for the teenage girls the expectations for them? how they should act and treat themselves. Xx


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## strangestdude (Dec 8, 2011)

ooooooooooooooooooooooooo


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

Look for non-gay porn involving submissive men. Porn that actually gives attention to the woman's pleasure for a change.


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## SenhorFrio (Apr 29, 2010)

one of the porn site i go to has a "female friendly" section, haven't really checked it out yet.


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

SenhorFrio said:


> one of the porn site i go to has a "female friendly" section, haven't really checked it out yet.


..as opposed to the rest of the site being what?? 'Female hostile'..??

Definitely says something about the nature of most porn...yipes.


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## Talfdm (Sep 6, 2013)

dagnytaggart said:


> Look for non-gay porn involving submissive men. Porn that actually gives attention to the woman's pleasure for a change.


Adding on to this:

If you don't mind hentai (the mangas and doujinshi. I can't stand the videos), fakku has a pretty good "femdom" section, many even bordering hardcore BDSM :blushed:. I can recommend a few of my favourites if you're interested :tongue:

Personally, I believe they're better than "real" porn. The storyline is always better and it's not as generic and well, fake (though I think many may find this statement ironic xD) - I'm sure there are those who understand what I mean.

P.S. To any immature kid who has a thing to say ----> Stop wasting your time. I'm not so insecure to give a crap about what _you _think about_ my_​ porn preference. 


*EDIT:* Ah, just realised I necroposted. Found this thread via recommendations located near the bottom of the page and didn't pay any attention to the dates. Apologises.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

dagnytaggart said:


> ..as opposed to the rest of the site being what?? 'Female hostile'..??
> 
> Definitely says something about the nature of most porn...yipes.


Haha, yup. Sure does. 

I hate porn. In my mind and personal opinion it is soooo far removed from anything sexual and real. Heated 'almost sex' scenes in movies filled with sexual tension are way more sexual to me than porn. Porn to me is just kind of graphic and... gross. It's a bit silly and makes me really uncomfortable. 

But yeah, personal opinion. Hope you found something more to your liking! It's a male dominated industry for sure, but I'm sure more 'female oriented' porn is out there.


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