# Personality type and culture...



## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

lilpixieofterror said:


> See, the problem with this would be it would all depend on what part of the country you are in.


I know that there are differences between states, but the problem would be mostly to find a good university on a state where I won't have problems with the people. Which states do you consider that are less strict? I've at least read something like that about California, but it would be interesting to know about other states as well.


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## lilpixieofterror (Oct 24, 2013)

Blue Flare said:


> I know that there are differences between states, but the problem would be mostly to find a good university on a state where I won't have problems with the people. Which states do you consider that are less strict? I've at least read something like that about California, but it would be interesting to know about other states as well.


I'm from Southern California and it is a good deal less religious then you'll find in Georgia. Much of the Pacific coast, isn't as religious either. In general, in the US, the southeast and midwest are the more religious areas while the North East and pacific coast are not.


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## Ballast (Jun 17, 2013)

monemi said:


> But the US is so INCREDIBLY religious. I drive around the US and you HAVE A TON OF CHURCHES. Holy shitballs! America has a lot of churches. I can't talk without setting off Christians in the US. And the reactions you get from them. Your elected officials have to prove that they're Christians. The US is incredibly conservative. I get the sense that media is SP, the culture is SJ.


True, I can't deny that. Nor the fact that we are oddly conservative in ways that Europe is not.

Of course, I live in California, the SP capital of the nation. It's possible I'm considering our LA/Hollywood influence more than the middle Bible belt where I would probably be shot if I went outside.

But I'm sort of thinking more of our global influence. People all over the world know us for our music, our fast food, our soda and candy and junk, our violent and sexed up entertainment. People look at America and think McDonald's, Coke, live fast and die young, blah blah blah. (Of course, if you wanted to argue that the very institution of capitalism is SJ, well, also true.)
Then again, maybe they just look at us and think, holy shit,_ all those churches!_ :laughing:


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Disneyland Paris is Europe's top tourist destination - France - RFI
> 
> That's another thing, American culture is so dominant that it is actually censored in many countries. There is a quota on it. I think even Canada has some kind of limit to how much American music can be played on stations. Like an affirmative action for the host culture.
> 
> It isn't just fast food. Even things like ipods and that kind of thing. There will be lines a mile long in countries across the world when a new Apple product comes out.


There are good things in American culture. But you're giving really bad examples of exported American culture. 

BTW, British culture expanded all over the globe for a couple of centuries. I'd hardly call that a display of superiority.


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## lilpixieofterror (Oct 24, 2013)

Ballast said:


> True, I can't deny that. Nor the fact that we are oddly conservative in ways that Europe is not.
> 
> Of course, I live in California, the SP capital of the nation. It's possible I'm considering our LA/Hollywood influence more than the middle Bible belt where I would probably be shot if I went outside.
> 
> ...


Spain had quite a few church's too and even had an entire week dedicated to a religious observance. Ever been to the Holy Week in Seville? It is a pretty huge religious celebration that brings lots of people, from all over Europe. So I do admit, I do find it a little odd that people talk about how religious the US is because there is a lot of church's in parts of the country, while many nations have entire weeks dedicated to a religious celebration.


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## lilpixieofterror (Oct 24, 2013)

monemi said:


> There are good things in American culture. But you're giving really bad examples of exported American culture.
> 
> BTW, British culture expanded all over the globe for a couple of centuries. I'd hardly call that a display of superiority.


Yeah really... I don't know why somebody has to wait in line, for hours, to get some stupid piece of metal that will be out of date in 6 months.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Ballast said:


> True, I can't deny that. Nor the fact that we are oddly conservative in ways that Europe is not.
> 
> Of course, I live in California, the SP capital of the nation. It's possible I'm considering our LA/Hollywood influence more than the middle Bible belt where I would probably be shot if I went outside.
> 
> ...


It's a weird contrast. I see American mainstream media that is very SP. I see scary American version news pumping out of the US. But when I've been in Massachusetts and NY state and down the eastern seaboard, I was exposed to heavy doses of Christianity. When I was in Louisiana and Texas, that was a whole lot of conservative and Christianity. The only place I didn't get loaded up on Christianity was when I was in San Francisco. I remember towns and villages with more pubs than churches growing up. It wasn't until I saw the US that I noticed that. Why did I notice that? Because the US has more churches than pubs. 

The attitudes from the average American I've met in person through husband's family and through work, doesn't strike me as SP at all. Half husband's family are American and they got their knickers in a twist when we didn't... what was it called? It's not a baptism. They wanted me to take the kids to church as babies and promise to raise them Christian in front of a congregation. I had American business acquaintances give me lectures on this stuff. So, so weird! There's been some really weird conversations at times, that I've played along with as best I could. 'I'll get right on that. Sounds important.'


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> There are good things in American culture. But you're giving really bad examples of exported American culture.
> 
> BTW, British culture expanded all over the globe for a couple of centuries. I'd hardly call that a display of superiority.


That was kind of the point. That even our lowest culture is a bestseller worldwide. 

British culture expanded by force. People embraced America of their own free will.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

lilpixieofterror said:


> Spain had quite a few church's too and even had an entire week dedicated to a religious observance. Ever been to the Holy Week in Seville? It is a pretty huge religious celebration that brings lots of people, from all over Europe. So I do admit, I do find it a little odd that people talk about how religious the US is because there is a lot of church's in parts of the country, while many nations have entire weeks dedicated to a religious celebration.


But if I tell someone in Spain I'm an Atheist, they didn't look at me like I was about to grow horns. The US has churches that have been built in the last ten years, the last 20 years, the last 50 years. The churches in Spain have been there for a very long time. Their attendance is much lower than the US. We're not talking ancient and century old churches everywhere in the US. We're talking new churches. Everywhere. That doesn't catch your attention at all? 

Religions Main article: Religion in Spain
Roman Catholicism is the largest religion in the country by far. According to a July 2009 study by the Spanish Center of Sociological Research about 70% of Spaniards self-identify as Catholics, 10% other faith, and about 20% identify with no religion. Most Spaniards do not participate regularly in religious services. This same study shows that of the Spaniards who identify themselves as religious, 58% hardly ever or never go to church, 17% go to church some times a year, 9% some time per month and 15% every Sunday or multiple times per week.[SUP][12][/SUP] But according to a December 2006 study, 48% of the population declared a belief in a supreme being, while 41% described themselves as atheist or agnostic.[SUP][13]


[/SUP]


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## Ballast (Jun 17, 2013)

monemi said:


> It's a weird contrast. I see American mainstream media that is very SP. I see scary American version news pumping out of the US. But when I've been in Massachusetts and NY state and down the eastern seaboard, I was exposed to heavy doses of Christianity. When I was in Louisiana and Texas, that was a whole lot of conservative and Christianity. The only place I didn't get loaded up on Christianity was when I was in San Francisco. I remember towns and villages with more pubs than churches growing up. It wasn't until I saw the US that I noticed that. Why did I notice that? Because the US has more churches than pubs.
> 
> The attitudes from the average American I've met in person through husband's family and through work, doesn't strike me as SP at all. Half husband's family are American and they got their knickers in a twist when we didn't... what was it called? It's not a baptism. They wanted me to take the kids to church as babies and promise to raise them Christian in front of a congregation. I had American business acquaintances give me lectures on this stuff. So, so weird! There's been some really weird conversations at times, that I've played along with as best I could. 'I'll get right on that. Sounds important.'


Hmm...I guess it really is a YMMV situation.

I've lived in the west my whole life and admittedly, the places where I grew up were very liberal and not as religious. My family wasn't religious either. I'll vouch for the fact that a lot of the US is pretty sternly Christian and there are ways that bias shows up in everyday life--not the least of which, as you mention, is evidenced in the fact that presidential candidates have to have some form of religious cred. Our last republican candidate got a lot of shit just for being _Mormon,_ because that was too much of a deviation. And republicans have become basically synonymous with Christianity. 

I'm lucky to not know very many people at all who are as you describe, but I don't deny they exist.


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## lilpixieofterror (Oct 24, 2013)

monemi said:


> But if I tell someone in Spain I'm an Atheist, they didn't look at me like I was about to grow horns. The US has churches that have been built in the last ten years, the last 20 years, the last 50 years. The churches in Spain have been there for a very long time. Their attendance is much lower than the US. We're not talking ancient and century old churches everywhere in the US. We're talking new churches. Everywhere. That doesn't catch your attention at all?


It would all depend on what part of the US you are in. I grew up in one of the lesser religious areas of the US, Southern Cali, so my experience with those things isn't all that big. We didn't have a whole lot of church's everywhere. The second thing you have to remember is the US vs European way of building and doing things. I've noticed Europeans have a tendency to just repair/remodel old buildings while the US has a tendency to just tear down old buildings or build new ones on top of the old ones. Third, this would again depend upon the area of Europe you are in. Eastern Europe had over 50 years of a communist rule, in which thousands of church's were destroyed and many of them have been rebuilt over the past 20 or so years. I know Germany also had quite a few of theirs rebuilt that were destroyed during WWII (think of the Dresden Frauenkirche, in Dresden Germany, it was destroyed during WWII and was just rebuilt and reopened in the mid 2000's). While it is true that the Western part of Europe, some have said the Eastern part of Europe is going though more of a religious revival; while the west is turning more agnostic/atheist. Finally, the US is a huge nation that has a very diverse culture. Can you drive across Canada and not run into different cultures and views? I doubt it and the same is true in the US. New York, Georgia, and California are pretty diverse as far as attitudes and cultures go. 



> Religions
> 
> Main article: Religion in Spain
> Roman Catholicism is the largest religion in the country by far. According to a July 2009 study by the Spanish Center of Sociological Research about 70% of Spaniards self-identify as Catholics, 10% other faith, and about 20% identify with no religion. Most Spaniards do not participate regularly in religious services. This same study shows that of the Spaniards who identify themselves as religious, 58% hardly ever or never go to church, 17% go to church some times a year, 9% some time per month and 15% every Sunday or multiple times per week.[SUP][12][/SUP] But according to a December 2006 study, 48% of the population declared a belief in a supreme being, while 41% described themselves as atheist or agnostic.[SUP][13]
> ...


You wouldn't know that, if you went to one of these things. It is a pretty big deal around there. Granted, it could just be engrained into the culture too, but I just find it interesting about the different attitudes of European atheist/agnostics vs North American ones.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

lilpixieofterror said:


> It would all depend on what part of the US you are in. I grew up in one of the lesser religious areas of the US, Southern Cali, so my experience with those things isn't all that big. We didn't have a whole lot of church's everywhere. The second thing you have to remember is the US vs European way of building and doing things. I've noticed Europeans have a tendency to just repair/remodel old buildings while the US has a tendency to just tear down old buildings or build new ones on top of the old ones. Third, this would again depend upon the area of Europe you are in. Eastern Europe had over 50 years of a communist rule, in which thousands of church's were destroyed and many of them have been rebuilt over the past 20 or so years. I know Germany also had quite a few of theirs rebuilt that were destroyed during WWII (think of the Dresden Frauenkirche, in Dresden Germany, it was destroyed during WWII and was just rebuilt and reopened in the mid 2000's). While it is true that the Western part of Europe, some have said the Eastern part of Europe is going though more of a religious revival; while the west is turning more agnostic/atheist. Finally, the US is a huge nation that has a very diverse culture. Can you drive across Canada and not run into different cultures and views? I doubt it and the same is true in the US. New York, Georgia, and California are pretty diverse as far as attitudes and cultures go.
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't know that, if you went to one of these things. It is a pretty big deal around there. Granted, it could just be engrained into the culture too, but I just find it interesting about the different attitudes of European atheist/agnostics vs North American ones.


We are referring to the the US as a Nation in this thread though right? Statistically, most Americans are Christians and attend Christian churches proportionally more than most countries. That your leader needs to prove themselves Christians to be elected, says that most of your country values Christianity highly enough to demand that their leader shares their beliefs. Even if you have areas of the US that are more atheist, doesn't change that most of the US has a Christian SJ bent to it.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> That was kind of the point. That even our lowest culture is a bestseller worldwide.
> 
> British culture expanded by force. *People embraced America of their own free will*.


That's debateable. I imagine it would look that way from your perspective.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> We are referring to the the US as a Nation in this thread though right? Statistically, most Americans are Christians and attend Christian churches proportionally more than most countries. That your leader needs to prove themselves Christians to be elected, says that most of your country values Christianity highly enough to demand that their leader shares their beliefs. Even if you have areas of the US that are more atheist, doesn't change that most of the US has a Christian SJ bent to it.


Well when's the last time that Britain didn't have a Christian PM or Queen/King? In fact, the UK has a state religion and monarchy. Your head of state has to be Anglican actually. Your flag is a bunch of crosses on top of each other, your anthem is God Save the Queen etc etc That would never happen in the US. That kind of religious favoritism or government endorsement of religion.

Every soldier and politician in your land has to swear an oath to a monarchy. Even in Canada.


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## lilpixieofterror (Oct 24, 2013)

monemi said:


> We are referring to the the US as a Nation in this thread though right?


True, but the key you have to remember is that the different parts of the US have quite a bit different histories and backgrounds. I think of it as how big the religion section is at the book store. In California, it was pretty small, but in the Midwest, it is far far bigger. That does tell me how different areas of the US, view religion. I remember my first visit out east and thinking, "Gosh, there is a lot of church's here" and I'm from the US myself. Just goes to show that the US is way more diverse, then some might think it is.



> Statistically, most Americans are Christians and attend Christian churches proportionally more than most countries. That your leader needs to prove themselves Christians to be elected, says that most of your country values Christianity highly enough to demand that their leader shares their beliefs. Even if you have areas of the US that are more atheist, doesn't change that most of the US has a Christian SJ bent to it.


Yes and no, but again, the US is a diverse culture with many different groups, with different backgrounds, mixing together. I would grant that there is more of a Christian influence here then you'll find in Canada or Western Europe, but it is hardly fair to judge the US based upon pieces of it.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Well when's the last time that Britain didn't have a Christian PM or Queen/King? In fact, the UK has a state religion and monarchy. Your head of state has to be Anglican actually. Your flag is a bunch of crosses on top of each other, your anthem is God Save the Queen etc etc That would never happen in the US. That kind of religious favoritism or government endorsement of religion.
> 
> Every soldier and politician in your land has to swear an oath to a monarchy. Even in Canada.


The UK has a political Christian political tradition. Atheist PM's: Clement Attlee. James Callagan. The current deputy Prime Minister is an atheist. I haven't seen British political candidates emphasize their "Christianness" to voters. Neither do Canadian. In fact, Canadian politicians don't actually tell you their faith. When the current Prime Minister announced he was a Christian, it annoyed half the country because that shouldn't be relevant to running for PM. 

Oh no! Keeping with tradition swearing oaths to the monarchy. This really bothers you huh?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> The UK has a political Christian political tradition. Clement Attlee. James Callagan. The current deputy Prime Minister is an atheist. I haven't seen British political candidates emphasize their "Christianness" to voters. Neither do Canadian. In fact, Canadian politicians don't actually tell you their faith. When the current Prime Minister announced he was a Christian, it annoyed half the country because that shouldn't be relevant to running for PM.
> 
> Oh no! Keeping with tradition swearing oaths to the monarchy. This really bothers you huh?


Why is monarchy a tradition one would want to preserve?


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

lilpixieofterror said:


> True, but the key you have to remember is that the different parts of the US have quite a bit different histories and backgrounds. I think of it as how big the religion section is at the book store. In California, it was pretty small, but in the Midwest, it is far far bigger. That does tell me how different areas of the US, view religion. I remember my first visit out east and thinking, "Gosh, there is a lot of church's here" and I'm from the US myself. Just goes to show that the US is way more diverse, then some might think it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and no, but again, the US is a diverse culture with many different groups, with different backgrounds, mixing together. I would grant that there is more of a Christian influence here then you'll find in Canada or Western Europe, but it is hardly fair to judge the US based upon pieces of it.


And the same isn't true for Canada? Or the UK? Or Australia? They vary from area to area and don't have the exact same histories. Canada and Australia (Or most European countries if you ask me.) aren't easily rounded up as a whole. We're generalizing. If we can't generalize you, you can't generalize us.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> And the same isn't true for Canada? Or the UK? Or Australia? They vary from area to area and don't have the exact same histories. Canada and Australia (Or most European countries if you ask me.) aren't easily rounded up as a whole. We're generalizing. If we can't generalize you, you can't generalize us.


They are more easily rounded up because they are less diverse. Canada is like 90% white for example. The most religious groups in the US are actually black and hispanic, which make up about 1/3 of our population. If 1/3 of Britain was black and hispanic, the BNP would have taken power long ago. j/k ....kinda but it amazes me that *********** parties can actually get seats in Europe, when there is essentially no minorities to there in the first place.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Why is monarchy a tradition one would want to preserve?


Someone as veto that isn't elected. If they abuse it, we'll take their head. But when politicians are fucking around, there is someone that isn't worried about keeping their job that has the power to step in and make them play nice.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> They are more easily rounded up because they are less diverse. Canada is like 90% white for example. The most religious groups in the US are actually black and hispanic, which make up about 1/3 of our population. If 1/3 of Britain was black and hispanic, the BNP would have taken power long ago. j/k ....kinda but it amazes me that *********** parties can actually get seats in Europe, when there is essentially no minorities to there in the first place.


Oh, so diversity is only about ethnicity? What about Quebec? They speak French. What about Nunuvut? They speak Inuit. 




When I go up north in Ontario, half the towns are French. What about Canadians having more surviving aboriginals per capita than the US? 

It's a good night for digging graves.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Also, tell NI, Wales, Cornwall and Scotland that they're just like the English. That they're the same people. Wear headgear.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> Also, tell NI, Wales, Cornwall and Scotland that they're just like the English. That they're the same people. Wear headgear.


yeah, and there are guys in the south of the US who are still mad about the Civil War and call me Yankee. Call them a Yankee and see what happens. come on. I probably have 5 different european ethnicities in me, but over here, I'm just white. That's it.


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## lilpixieofterror (Oct 24, 2013)

monemi said:


> And the same isn't true for Canada? Or the UK? Or Australia? They vary from area to area and don't have the exact same histories. Canada and Australia (Or most European countries if you ask me.) aren't easily rounded up as a whole. We're generalizing. If we can't generalize you, you can't generalize us.


I'm pretty sure I did give examples of how different Europe can be, but in any case. The key differences between the US and Europe is our size and population. I could drive for days and still be in the US, but the majority of European countries can be crossed in a few hours. This is the key to remember, the US is a collection of many different cultures that blended together into one nation over a period of centuries. We have former British, Dutch, Spanish, and French colonies and the history they bring with them, we have natives, we have pretty much every mixture there is too, so there's areas of the US that have a pretty heavy religious influence and others that do not. We even have areas where French, is actually somewhat of a common language too. You can't judge the US, based upon parts of it anymore then you could judge Europe, based upon the attitudes of the UK. The major difference is we are combined into one nation, while the Europe isn't.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> yeah, and there are guys in the south of the US who are still mad about the Civil War and call me Yankee. Call them a Yankee and see what happens. come on. I probably have 5 different european ethnicities in me, but over here, I'm just white. That's it.


And because it doesn't matter in the US, the British Isles are supposed to be over it? Wales and Scotland debate separating from the UK. Quebec debates separating from Canada. The differences are distinct enough that they insist that they are their own people. Scotland already has their own parliament and currency. 

FAT, you're incredibly ill-informed about countries outside of the US. You are perpetuating the dumb American stereotype. Are you sure you want to keep doing this?


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## lilpixieofterror (Oct 24, 2013)

monemi said:


> And because it doesn't matter in the US, the British Isles are supposed to be over it? Wales and Scotland debate separating from the UK. Quebec debates separating from Canada. The differences are distinct enough that they insist that they are their own people. Scotland already has their own parliament and currency.


You'll find a lot of that here too. Southern Cali has said it wants to separate from Northern Cali, for years. Down in the south today, there still is some who talk about succeeding from the US. Every country has its bickering with one another.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> And because it doesn't matter in the US, the British Isles are supposed to be over it? Wales and Scotland debate separating from the UK. Quebec debates separating from Canada. The differences are distinct enough that they insist that they are their own people. Scotland already has their own parliament and currency.
> 
> FAT, you're incredibly ill-informed about countries outside of the US. You are perpetuating the dumb American stereotype. Are you sure you want to keep doing this?


I think I showed quite a bit of knowledge. How many Canadians or Americans know that all their public officials must swear an oath to a Queen or the history of the flags, or their racial makeup, etc etc.? I have not said anything factually wrong, you just see it as perceptually wrong. No reason to get rustled. I'm not.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

lilpixieofterror said:


> I'm pretty sure I did give examples of how different Europe can be, but in any case. The key differences between the US and Europe is our size and population. I could drive for days and still be in the US, but the majority of European countries can be crossed in a few hours. This is the key to remember, the US is a collection of many different cultures that blended together into one nation over a period of centuries. We have former British, Dutch, Spanish, and French colonies and the history they bring with them, we have natives, we have pretty much every mixture there is too, so there's areas of the US that have a pretty heavy religious influence and others that do not. We even have areas where French, is actually somewhat of a common language too. You can't judge the US, based upon parts of it anymore then you could judge Europe, based upon the attitudes of the UK. The major difference is we are combined into one nation, while the Europe isn't.


This is just more bullshit American exceptionalism. I live in Canada. We have more land mass than you. We're spread over wide spaces. You have the same diversity as other countries have. You just don't want to admit it. Russia is diverse. Australia is diverse. China is diverse. Everywhere has diversity with varied backgrounds ethnically, linguistically and geographically. But you're pushing the American arrogance that you're unique from all other countries and we just don't understand. We ken you just fine. You've just spent a lifetime listening to American propaganda saying you're the land of freedom and blah blah blah. You've heard it so much, that you can't even consider other perspectives.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

lilpixieofterror said:


> You'll find a lot of that here too. Southern Cali has said it wants to separate from Northern Cali, for years. Down in the south today, there still is some who talk about succeeding from the US. Every country has its bickering with one another.


How far has this talk gotten? Quebec voting in 1997 came down to the wire. The fight for independence for Northern Ireland has been going on for generations. Anyone scarified their lives to leave separate states in California?


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I think I showed quite a bit of knowledge. How many Canadians or Americans know that all their public officials must swear an oath to a Queen or the history of the flags, or their racial makeup, etc etc.? I have not said anything factually wrong, you just see it as perceptually wrong. No reason to get rustled. I'm not.


I'm not ruffled. And most Canadians and Brits know that their public officials swear and oath to the Queen and know the history of their flags and their racial make-up. This isn't high brow information. This isn't proving a lot of knowledge.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> I'm not ruffled. And most Canadians and Brits know that their public officials swear and oath to the Queen and know the history of their flags and their racial make-up. This isn't high brow information. This isn't proving a lot of knowledge.


I really don't think they do. I would bet they don't. I would bet a lot they don't. I would love to quiz the British general public about civics in history. If I were to tell the average Canadian that Canada was around 90% white for example, they would dispute that fact. They always do. They think they live in like one of them most diverse countries in the world, and pride themselves on it. 

Most people don't know shit, even about where they live.. This isn't the 18th century where only rich people have access to libraries, I am very capable of knowing more about Britain, than Britons, without ever stepping foot in the place. If I asked the average New Yorker what the population of New York State was, they wouldn't even come within a few million. They would have no idea. You could know more about NY than the average New Yorker in 10 minutes on Wikipedia.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

but yes, I am aware Britain has sectarianism and a delicate balance of regional politics unlike anything in the US. Bono actually made some interesting comments about Europe should be more like the US to unify.


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## occasus (Oct 21, 2013)

Australia probably values ESFP's the most. Tall poppy syndrome is a major problem.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I really don't think they do. I would bet they don't. I would bet a lot they don't. I would love to quiz the British general public about civics in history. If I were to tell the average Canadian that Canada was around 90% white for example, they would dispute that fact. They always do. They think they live in like one of them most diverse countries in the world, and pride themselves on it.
> 
> Most people don't know shit, even about where they live.. This isn't the 18th century where only rich people have access to libraries, I am very capable of knowing more about Britain, than Britons, without ever stepping foot in the place. If I asked the average New Yorker what the population of New York State was, they wouldn't even come within a few million. They would have no idea. You could know more about NY than the average New Yorker in 10 minutes on Wikipedia.


Didn't say you couldn't know obscure information, but this isn't rare information. But you're talking about stuff covered in British State schools and Canadian Public schools. Much like you would learn about civic politics as a kid, Brits and Canadians learn as kids. I'd understand if you were referring to something obscure, but you're referring to an oath every immigrant and soldier has sworn. I swore it when I got my Canadian citizenship. Soldiers refer to it on remembrance day. This isn't a secret. 

The bulk of immigrants live in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. Canadians living in the corridor between Montreal and Toronto probably would be surprised that 90% of the country is white. Their area is more mixed than that. Other areas are so white, they'd be surprised that the stats aren't closer to what they see. 

My Dad's family don't give a shit about politics but gently teased my Dad about serving her Majesty when he was a soldier. You'd have to be dense to miss the fact that our soldiers and politicians serve a monarch. It's mind boggling that you'd think this was a little known fact. Half my Dad's family dropped out of school but this would go on the list of basic knowledge the public knows. Soldiers and politicians serve the Queen. It's obvious. 



FearAndTrembling said:


> but yes, I am aware Britain has sectarianism and a delicate balance of regional politics unlike anything in the US. Bono actually made some interesting comments about Europe should be more like the US to unify.


And you've lost the thread of this discussion. Most of the US is Christian. If we're going to generalize about countries, we go with the majority of the country. The majority of Canada speaks English. Despite the fact that large areas of Canada speak French, we can generalize that Canada speaks English. The majority of the US is Christian. Despite that fact that large areas of the US are atheists, we can generalize that the US is Christian. The UK is introverted. Despite the fact that large areas like London have chavs and football hooligans, we can generalize that the UK is introverted. 

Every country has geography and population and history that makes it unique and distinct and they don't all share the same history. The US loves to conclude that global rules don't apply to them because they have different history from everyone else. It's still bullshit. Every country has unique and distinct peoples and histories within each country. Otherwise the world would be a much more peaceful place.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

monemi said:


> And you've lost the thread of this discussion. Most of the US is Christian. If we're going to generalize about countries, we go with the majority of the country. The majority of Canada speaks English. Despite the fact that large areas of Canada speak French, we can generalize that Canada speaks English. The majority of the US is Christian. Despite that fact that large areas of the US are atheists, we can generalize that the US is Christian. The UK is introverted. Despite the fact that large areas like London have chavs and football hooligans, we can generalize that the UK is introverted.
> 
> Every country has geography and population and history that makes it unique and distinct and they don't all share the same history. The US loves to conclude that global rules don't apply to them because they have different history from everyone else. It's still bullshit. Every country has unique and distinct peoples and histories within each country. Otherwise the world would be a much more peaceful place.


Yeah, I laughed at that snowflake syndrome that they're showing. If you want more examples of differences, then there are also notorious ones in South American countries. Brazil and Argentina aren't small countries, so they naturally will diverge on the cultural aspect between their regions. Even Bolivia that isn't that big has real problems between the Aymara population and the folks that live near the bolivian jungle, which have lots of money thanks to their oil and gas industries.

I live in Chile, and anyone that would travel around this country will also notice a strong contrast between the northern, center and southern cities, as this place has around 4000 km of length from north to south. The northern cities are more similar to peruvian ones, while the extreme south is more like Argentina, and the climates vary a lot as well, from deserts to glacial places. Even if the religion doesn't vary too much, the language has differences, plus other cultural differences as well.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> Didn't say you couldn't know obscure information, but this isn't rare information. But you're talking about stuff covered in British State schools and Canadian Public schools. Much like you would learn about civic politics as a kid, Brits and Canadians learn as kids. I'd understand if you were referring to something obscure, but you're referring to an oath every immigrant and soldier has sworn. I swore it when I got my Canadian citizenship. Soldiers refer to it on remembrance day. This isn't a secret.
> 
> The bulk of immigrants live in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. Canadians living in the corridor between Montreal and Toronto probably would be surprised that 90% of the country is white. Their area is more mixed than that. Other areas are so white, they'd be surprised that the stats aren't closer to what they see.
> 
> ...


You think this stuff isn't covered in American schools? I've been learning about NY history my entire life in schools. We learned about the Indian tribes that settled NY for example, but how many adult New Yorkers do you think retain that knowledge, and could answer that question now? Less than 5%. We learn state capitals, we learn presidents, we learn history. We don't remember it. I don't think you realize how pedestrian most people are. Kids know that stuff because they have to. Once they don't have to learn it anymore, it goes away, because they have no interest in knowledge. I know a bunch of guys who probably knew more about the world when they were 10, than they do now. What is the world's' population for example? You and I have a good idea off the top of our head, and it isn't a very impressive fact, but go around your neighborhood, and I would bet my car that 90% of your neighbors wouldn't even come within 50%. Seriously, start asking people these kind of questions. Experiment. I don't have to. I have done it enough.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> You think this stuff isn't covered in American schools? I've been learning about NY history my entire life in schools. We learned about the Indian tribes that settled NY for example, but how many adult New Yorkers do you think retain that knowledge, and could answer that question now? Less than 5%. We learn state capitals, we learn presidents, we learn history. We don't remember it. I don't think you realize how pedestrian most people are. Kids know that stuff because they have to. Once they don't have to learn it anymore, it goes away, because they have no interest in knowledge. I know a bunch of guys who probably knew more about the world when they were 10, than they do now. What is the world's' population for example? You and I have a good idea off the top of our head, and it isn't a very impressive fact, but go around your neighborhood, and I would bet my car that 90% of your neighbors wouldn't even come within 50%. Seriously, start asking people these kind of questions. Experiment. I don't have to. I have done it enough.


Alright, I just texted 5 friends. 4 answered. 3/4 of these Canadians knew that politicians swear an oath to the Queen. No answer from the 5th. 3/4 said there were 6 billion people and one said 7 billion. 

I'm curious. How do you know for sure what the average person around you knows about these things? Do conversations flow in that direction naturally for you?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

monemi said:


> Alright, I just texted 5 friends. 4 answered. 3/4 of these Canadians knew that politicians swear an oath to the Queen. No answer from the 5th. 3/4 said there were 6 billion people and one said 7 billion.
> 
> I'm curious. How do you know for sure what the average person around you knows about these things? Do conversations flow in that direction naturally for you?


How did you frame the question? Did you ask them, "Who do they swear an oath to?" or, "Do they swear an oath to the queen?" Small sample size too. I could probably text a couple friends who would know it too, but go around the mall or something and ask. 

Yes, I hate small talk and so my conversations generally steer towards substantive issues, which shows you other people's ignorance. The common man is totally uninformed, even highly educated professionals. They see knowledge as a means to an end, and don't value it beyond that. I remember a poll not too long ago where a significant percentage of Americans didn't even know what year 911 happened. You think these people know what years WW2 took place? or anything else?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

That's why I like the internet. It allows us to sift through people. You think I could just walk up on the street and find a girl as intelligent as you? Or a male as intelligent? That would take a lot of sifting. It is difficult to even find intelligent people to talk to irl. I mean, sure they are out there, but they are among a sea of fools. 

This forum in general has a higher iq than the average population too.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> How did you frame the question? Did you ask them, "Who do they swear an oath to?" or, "Do they swear an oath to the queen?" Small sample size too. I could probably text a couple friends who would know it too, but go around the mall or something and ask.
> 
> Yes, I hate small talk and so my conversations generally steer towards substantive issues, which shows you other people's ignorance. The common man is totally uninformed, even highly educated professionals. They see knowledge as a means to an end, and don't value it beyond that. I remember a poll not too long ago where a significant percentage of Americans didn't even know what year 911 happened. You think these people know what years WW2 took place? or anything else?


I asked who politicians swear an oath to when they take office. The one that got it wrong said the people of Canada. Which isn't entirely wrong IMO. The Queen is a representative of the people. 



FearAndTrembling said:


> That's why I like the internet. It allows us to sift through people. You think I could just walk up on the street and find a girl as intelligent as you? Or a male as intelligent? That would take a lot of sifting. It is difficult to even find intelligent people to talk to irl. I mean, sure they are out there, but they are among a sea of fools.
> 
> This forum in general has a higher iq than the average population too.


I'm not a fan of small talk, but I use it to steer conversations to more entertaining subject matter. I want to have fun and I want people to share it with. Small talk is a tool to find an opening for common ground with people. If I work hard enough, I can find common ground with just about anyone. Everyone has something they're knowledgeable about and I gain something worth learning about from. Obviously, their information requires verification, but it's worth it. 

I've learned things from a zoologist that has a kid in my sons kindergarten class while waiting for them since September. She's passionate and knowledgeable and interesting to listen to. It's obvious she doesn't know the first thing about make-up application, but I'll give her a pass. She's clearly specialized in her area of interest. There isn't a lot she has to say that I'm interested in hearing about outside of zoology. It took me using small talk each day for quite a few days, before I found a subject that she had something interesting to talk to. 

There are rarely people in the general population that are so vacuous that they have nothing to say that is worth listening to.


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