# How to deal with manipulative sibling + their fall out?



## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Hi there, have an elder ESTP sister, 31. 

I'm graduating from undergrad in a week, and ESTP sister proposed idea that we celebrate in some way to my father. Father brought this up to mother. Mother brought this up to me. I text sister asking if her and her family would want to do anything while we are in Disney World. We will only get one dinner and one lunch with them (wtf? okay.). Sister tells me that "I'm sure we'll still see you" and she describes my behavior as "hustling." and that: "This is Callie (4 y.o niece's) first time at Disney, we'll be busy.". Now, it's fine to be busy at Disney world especially with a child's first time...but one fucking evening? Seriously? Come onnnnn. More excuses than a preacher in a whore house.

Okay.

Tell parents, because I don't want them to do anything special if I'm not going to be with my nieces, was planning on activities that they would enjoy since I love them dearly. Father and mother deeply confused, mother now raging at ESTP sister.

It's just...so back and forth with this bitch. I can never tell what I am going to get. I love my nieces dearly but I am not going to put up with this when I get an adult job and move somewhere else. 

I have an auditory processing disorder + severe depression + ADHD, school was not easy for me. Last year I posted I would be part of the 17 percent of adults with a disability graduating with a degree, and her only comment was: "You do not have a disability."...uh, excuse me? Did you go to school only to fail your courses and have to find some way to study at the last minute all to avoid being kicked out of school? No, you didn't. Did you take the testing at a neuropsychologist that your physician met with to confirm the results? No, you didn't. Are you in my head every day? No, you are not. It's extremely condescending and rude. All in all, she just likes to argue and it seems, to bring me down.

Anyways, whenever something like this happens, my parents let all hell get loose and argue with her, argue with each other, or argue with me, and I'm not about that. I guess I can just drive somewhere else when they're like that? I don't know man. How am I even going to look at my sister and her husband on vacation lol?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm sorry. But congratulations on your graduation! 

Do you think she may have been jealous of your accomplishment, so perhaps she suggested the celebration and then semi or unconsciously sabotaged it, making a big fuss all about her behavior, right before you graduate?

Because that kind of crazy making happens sometimes, though I guess it's best not to assume it. But if you noticed she often does this when you are successful (like sabotage, perhaps unconscious) or during holidays or events that are not about her?

The only thing I really know what to do is to try to keep more distance from people like that, because there's no real making them happy. They just kind of crazymake when you let them and all it does is drain emotional energy.









How to Handle a Crazymaker


Four keys to keep from losing it when they start playing games.




www.psychologytoday.com


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

WickerDeer said:


> I'm sorry. But congratulations on your graduation!
> 
> Do you think she may have been jealous of your accomplishment, so perhaps she suggested the celebration and then semi or unconsciously sabotaged it, making a big fuss all about her behavior, right before you graduate?
> 
> ...


That's the only thing I can think of doing TBH. In general I find myself splitting hairs trying to figure out why she is the way that she is (constantly starting arguments, constantly downplaying an abusive parents behavior, etc.). I was really thinking I could put up with her to see my nieces, but shit ain't worth it.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

deafcrossfitter said:


> That's the only thing I can think of doing TBH. In general I find myself splitting hairs trying to figure out why she is the way that she is (constantly starting arguments, constantly downplaying an abusive parents behavior, etc.). I was really thinking I could put up with her to see my nieces, but shit ain't worth it.



Maybe you should just plan to drive somewhere else and say that you want to enjoy your accomplishments and graduation, and that the conflict is making it difficult to enjoy with them. But just remember self-care in small ways too since it's probably emotionally upsetting and draining. They will all calm down again, but it can take a toll until then, especially if you tend to get overstimulated by noise or arguing (I'm not sure if that is part of your auditory processing disorder or not). Whatever you choose to do, I think you should do what you'll enjoy, because it's your time to celebrate.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

WickerDeer said:


> Maybe you should just plan to drive somewhere else and say that you want to enjoy your accomplishments and graduation, and that the conflict is making it difficult to enjoy with them. But just remember self-care in small ways too since it's probably emotionally upsetting and draining. They will all calm down again, but it can take a toll until then, especially if you tend to get overstimulated by noise or arguing (I'm not sure if that is part of your auditory processing disorder or not).


Oh, we're all not together yet. We'll be stuck in a hotel room in Disney world, the most magical place on earth! But I'm sure I cant grab my autistic sister with me and maybe my nieces. IDK.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

I am so confused by the OP. Excuse me, politely, for not following. So you are graduating, and your sister wanted to celebrate your dad (or was that supposed to be day?). Then I'm thinking somehow you guys had a shared family vacation to Disney World and you wanted to double up on that to celebrate your graduation there, but she doesn't want to do that because after making the trip there, she really just wants to spend her time on giving her kids the full "Disney" experience, and now you're wondering if you should just go off and celebrate on your own...Before I comment, is that correct?


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Nope dad wasn't confused for day. You clearly said, "Father".... Just reread the OP. So she suggested a celebration, you suggested tacking it onto a shared family trip, then she tripped about it. How long was your celebration supposed to take?

I know for one, and no offense to you, congrats dude on your MASSIVE success (SERIOUSLY IMPRESSIVE!!!!) ...But they have things like graduations and graduation parties for this type of thing. If you were wanting to take up a significant time slot, like repurposing the vacation or even taking up an entire half day for the party alone, I could see that as a little....unseemly. It's rare for me to afford to take vacations with my children, and when I do plan them, I 100% don't expect to be weighed down (yet again) by family obligations. So maybe that's where she's coming from.

That said, one of my coolest birthdays was at Knott's Berry Farm. My mom actually told me we were going to a funeral that day, and then gifted me plastic heart shaped sunglasses which I didn't understand while traveling there.  Then we were there and, everyone came out, "SURPRISE! IT's KNOTT'S". "Oh! Yay! So GLAD I didn't go to a funeral lamo! (laugh crying)". Then, that wasn't even it, we had a whole thing with cake that had, as I remember it, a printed image on it (which I had never seen before, 80s dude), but was so special like they personalized it JUST for me, at the brink of that technology. I remember eating the cake. Lol, and the film (which looked like a picture) just dissolved in my mouth which was surprising. Then Snoopy and the gang sang to me, and I received a single patchwork bear that my grandma bought me from a store called Carousel Faire. It smelled of potpourri, like fresh flowers, and I loved that thing to death. But it was so stiff and so dense (and now I wonder if it were allergies), it never became a regular in my room....I think it was finally discarded as something unused. :/

And while the party was cool, I felt like ridiculous scrutiny and pressure to make these people feel as happy as I did at any given moment ( lol habitual introvert, "Tupac's, 'No Eyes On Me," ). This was second. To the rides, to the fun we had that day. If anything, it made it more and more special. People throughout the park would randomly run up to me and yell, "HAPPY BIRTHDAY!" I later realized my uncle had paid them to do so.

The only reason I could think of as to why my uncle would do that. Was either to make it EXTREMELY special. Or, he recognized it was the kids who were more concerned with the park, and the adults who were more concerned with the party. Regardless, he made sure that I felt special the entire day. It was terrifying because I think some of the workers went into Scary Farm mode, but he was always right behind me. Lol.

Anyway, the point is, it's true. Sometimes different parties need different venues.

But ultimately, so fucking bad ass dude. I know an unseen struggle myself. It's incredibly difficult when people downplay your accomplishments and think they are no different than theirs. I've been told a lot, "You know we all go through the same shit, we just handle it...'differently'. And I'm like FUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK YOU! "We are NOT that same, and your backhanded understanding only shows me you've never faced obstacles like this. Even if it seems the same, it could never be. Because you have a whole set of struggles that to me, I cannot comprehend."


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Ms. Aligned said:


> I am so confused by the OP. Excuse me, politely, for not following. So you are graduating, and your sister wanted to celebrate your dad (or was that supposed to be day?). Then I'm thinking somehow you guys had a shared family vacation to Disney World and you wanted to double up on that to celebrate your graduation there, but she doesn't want to do that because after making the trip there, she really just wants to spend her time on giving her kids the full "Disney" experience, and now you're wondering if you should just go off and celebrate on your own...Before I comment, is that correct?


Sorry, typos. I am graduating, she suggested celebrating that. We're going to Disney World because now I have time for a family vacation. This is correct, I am confused by her actions. She was the one that was very adamant about celebrating my graduation, and I wanted to include her and her family.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Ms. Aligned said:


> Nope dad wasn't confused for day. You clearly said, "Father".... Just reread the OP. So she suggested a celebration, you suggested tacking it onto a shared family trip, then she tripped about it. How long was your celebration supposed to take?
> 
> I know for one, and no offense to you, congrats dude on your MASSIVE success (SERIOUSLY IMPRESSIVE!!!!) ...But they have things like graduations and graduation parties for this type of thing. If you were wanting to take up a significant time slot, like repurposing the vacation or even taking up an entire half day for the party alone, I could see that as a little....unseemly. It's rare for me to afford to take vacations with my children, and when I do plan them, I 100% don't expect to be weighed down (yet again) by family obligations. So maybe that's where she's coming from.
> 
> ...


This is possible where she is coming from! But again, I am soooo confused by her actions. She also described my behavior as 'hustling' which came off as kind of derogatory and passive aggressive. That being said, I don't really get to see them whenever we -do- get vacations, or even if they visit...they're running around and sight seeing, which is fine, but again. maybe twice a whole vacation or trip they make to 'see' us. It's also kind of inconsiderate of her, because as harsh as this sounds, she got married when during one of my exam weeks so I had to rearrange things on my end and beg Professor's to go to the wedding, and beg work as well to let me off, it's just...odd to me. It's like no one elses needs exist with her. I completely agree about the backhanded comments, it shows how 'easy' they've had it (in certain ways).

I'm glad your family brought you to that farm, it sounds lovely.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

Family members' idea of what's nice for you can be weird. This got all complicated and tangled up because kids, Disney World, graduation ... too many things going on.

If you want to see your nieces, make a special trip (sometime in the future) for that and nothing else. Or invite them to come and see you. But realize that your sister might still ruin things by planning other things during the visit.

I'm sorry the graduation celebration didn't turn out the way you planned.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

islandlight said:


> Family members' idea of what's nice for you can be weird. This got all complicated and tangled up because kids, Disney World, graduation ... too many things going on.
> 
> If you want to see your nieces, make a special trip (sometime in the future) for that and nothing else. Or invite them to come and see you. But realize that your sister might still ruin things by planning other things during the visit.
> 
> I'm sorry the graduation celebration didn't turn out the way you planned.


Thanks, might have to follow this. Not sure yet.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

deafcrossfitter said:


> This is possible where she is coming from! But again, I am soooo confused by her actions. She also described my behavior as 'hustling' which came off as kind of derogatory and passive aggressive. That being said, I don't really get to see them whenever we -do- get vacations, or even if they visit...they're running around and sight seeing, which is fine, but again. maybe twice a whole vacation or trip they make to 'see' us. It's also kind of inconsiderate of her, because as harsh as this sounds, she got married when during one of my exam weeks so I had to rearrange things on my end and beg Professor's to go to the wedding, and beg work as well to let me off, it's just...odd to me. It's like no one elses needs exist with her. I completely agree about the backhanded comments, it shows how 'easy' they've had it (in certain ways).
> 
> I'm glad your family brought you to that farm, it sounds lovely.


Oh yeah, I know those family members. They're so "important" and busy that it's absolutely fine for you to go out of your way to accommodate them, while they use your presence as a platform for showing how amazingly successful they are in comparison. At the same time, they never do go out of their way for you, because they're simply too busy and important to do so. 

I was actually going to be like, "Yeah that makes sense. Disney World is ridiculously expensive, and I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to pay the price of admission (for an entire fam much less), just to have half the day spent on a party that could have been at any other venue, or even after hours when the kids were asleep in the hotel." But, I digress. 

Is it possible that this accomplishment felt as important to you, as it did for her, on her wedding day? Is it also possible, that her life isn't as cakewalk as it seems, and maybe she expresses NEEDING that vacation time but in all the wrong ways....By focusing on you and the party itself rather than confronting her own limitations?


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Why don't u just go to Disney Land, enjoy the rides and have a good time? Who cares whether ur sister is gonna let u play with her children or not. Like if I went to Disney Land and my sibling didn't wanna hang with me or let her children play with me then I'll entertain myself, I don't see a problem.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> Why don't u just go to Disney Land, enjoy the rides and have a good time? Who cares whether ur sister is gonna let u play with her children or not. Like if I went to Disney Land and my sibling didn't wanna hang with me or let her children play with me then I'll entertain myself, I don't see a problem.


 To be fair, that's like a 6 hour plane ride (nonstop) at least. 

Also, the problem is, he wanted to celebrate his success with the whole fam and this seemed like an opportune time to do so.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Also, I will add. If you've never been to any Disney park ever. I have three favorite rides.

1) Jungle Cruise

Must do first. It sets the whole tone for the entire experience. I can actually recite it, "AND....ladies and gentleman, for the 8th wonder of the world! .....The back side of water....."

I heard they are revamping the ride now to make it more culturally appropriate. Idk what pygmies complained, but they were heard. Lol. Also, I don't know that I actually saw the "savages" as "pygmies" but a coworker told me that. I thought they represented an extinct primate version of today's human on the evolutionary scale. The whole ride is/or was supposed to be primitive.

2) Space Mountain

Idk what songs they playing now but back in my day it was, "Enter Sandman" Or, is that what I just independently played through my head? Funnest roller coaster ever. I was told to NEVER put your hands up on this ride because there are cables there that will slice right through them. Myth or legend, still one of my favorite rides. As a science project, waiting in line one time, we decided to calculate the speed of the trains vs. the line. We settled on 23 seconds.

3) Matterhorn

Come on....it doesn't matter how fucking fun it is, you'll ride it over and over again. Just for a glimpse of that dude.


Other classics include, Thunder Mountain! Small whatever, pirates, and the mansion. Also the submarines (something you HAVE to do once, but then never do again). The baskets (think those have been discontinued though), Tinker bell and the light/firework shows. And some B favorites...Peter Pan. Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, and if your feet hurt, Into the Whale's Mouth. Dumbo is great for the kids. Finally, the castle and wishing well.

Damn, I just realized I haven't been to Disneyland in like 20+ years. Lol


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

This actually doesn’t make me think of MBTI

It makes me thinks of negative traits I consider typical to an eldest child

Actually my eldest daughter sorta acts like your older Sis (and she’s ENFJ). Me being ESTP can’t stand that shit.

My youngest daughter is an INFP.

A few weeks ago my 14 yr old, INFP daughter organized a formal dinner where she cooked all day with my mom and my mom and the INFP daughter served us all. My ENFJ daughter who recently turned 18 actually had a dispute with me the night before over some self created and inflicted drama. I had told her knowing her, “don’t bring this to dinner tomorrow”. Because it wasn’t the appropriate platform.

My eldest daughter could not fricken handle just my bro and stepdad complimenting her younger sister cooking and the work she put into the meal.

So the eldest daughter interrupted the meal which everyone else was having General generic banter that is group oriented and bounces between everyone. My eldest cuts everyone off, not once or just twice, but three times to direct conversation toward herself. And by the third time she succeeded in redirecting the attention of the other family who’d evaded the first two attempts.

How low she had to stoop in the third attempt to force other people’s attention or a reaction was mind boggling to me for a late afternoon dinner. She could not fucken handle any attention off of her. Even her sister getting accolades for a meal she prepared (and her younger sis is a reserved un intrusive quieter person never commanding attention, much like you describe yourself).

So anyways I was actually fucken livid at my ENFJ daughter for grasping for attention that much. She already commands a lot from many people. My eldest is with a different guy than my youngest, my eldest is the only daughter and grandchild on the paternal side of her family and so they’ve over compensated a lot and spoiled her a lot, and fed into a lot of the need she’s had for attention even if it’s negative.

So again she’s been a monster to correspond with because she’s 18. So I’ve taken a large step back. I’m still her mom I text and call to say I love her daily. But even yesterday she hadn’t spoke to me in two days and after yelling at me the last time we spoke sends me some sappy song. I just did not respond. Even me as her mother is tired of her thinking she can act like an emotional tantrum child with everyone picking fights, and then brush it under the rug a day later and act like things don’t happen and then try to act sentimental. While attention whoring.

Back to the story of that day. So I clenched my teeth. I knew not to reprimand my daughter. For one I don’t believe in doing that undermining people’s worst qualities in front of an audience. But also I knew to some degree her behavior was not only about attention, but bait. It’s why everytime I don’t take her bait in group settings she’ll do other things to pick disputes. So I bit my lip. Anyone who knows me, like all the family in the room knows I don’t have to speak to know I’m not even down with this kind of communication. With all people.

Not the grasping for straws for attention. Not after the generic attempts don’t work to divert attention instead bring up her paternal family Business and try to use that to get pity. Not interrupting everyone else. Definitely not stooping to forced trickling tears at a dinner table. Cringe. My daughters behavior since she’s turned 18 is my worst nightmare 🤣.

So I refused to respond, which in itself still made me a target 🤣🤷🏻‍♀️. Can’t fucken win. My mother who usually stays removed even acknowledged this ridiculous shit. She did say she thought I should ignore it too.

Anyways who was a casualty in all of this? The INFP daughter. Who rarely ever wants direct attention on herself in a group setting. Gosh my blood pressure was probably thru the roof while I tried not to do what I felt inside. I was to the point of wanting to shatter a plate against a wall on the inside. Instead I just chugged my wine ignored my daughter turned to my bro and spoke to him. That’s when the eldest daughter started water works. Still did not engage this ridiculous shit. Walked outside to go smoke a cig. Came back and still was talking about herself.

I looked over to my youngest who looked visibly sad that her sister did this to her. Just to be clear when my eldest was under 17 I did intervene as a parent before things would have escalated. But I was refusing to get involved with this under principle.

So my youngest daughter and I went to leave. As soon as we get in the car. She says she is fucken furious at her sis. That’s not even like her. She was seriously hurt and teared up for it. I did validate to her she had every right to be and what her sis did was low and pathetic even for her. My youngest daughter really was hurt because she’s usually an emotional support person for her older sis, and backs her even when no one else will.

This is the message I said to her. Which was why I even went into all that. I think the message pertains to you too.

I told my youngest. It’s become clear to me your sister is the kind of person if she is willing to undermine you her biggest supporter and best friend and close sis, that your sis will always be someone who has to be the bell of a ball. Even if it’s someone else’s celebration. I told my daughter it’s become clear that when she graduates college my eldest will probably come into a room and announce an engagement, pregnancy, and if good things don’t work a break up. I told my daughter her sis is someone who will probably show up to someone’s wedding wearing off white.

So what I said next to my daughter. I said you need to know that the best reaction to your sisters behavior in the moment of stealing attention and robbing other people of their moments. Is that when I’m quiet it’s not because I don’t see. Same with others. Everyone sees. I told her that I refuse to pander and react and even give any negative attention. Im fine calling something out separate. But not during things to the eldest. Because it gives her what she wants attention and also POWER.

Your sis doesn’t have ESTP syndrome. She has eldest child brat attention whore syndrome. She will keep acting like this. My eldest sis acts like your sis and my eldest daughter. It’s basically eldest children who were enabled to be attention whores. Not all do it. But ones who achieve getting negative response after positive attention stealing doesn’t work.

I told my youngest daughter her best defense is a strong offense. And that is just being exactly who she is.

I think your parents need to stop giving your elder sis a reaction. She knows she’s doing that.

I even have a friend in a group of 4 who pulls this shit. We all come up with a game plan and she wants to do the opposite and lead another path, always. I’ve started to be like, this is what we’re doing this is what works best for majority, hopefully you can make it.

I know your nieces are important to you. But I also think that’s her power play. Plan around her. And the nieces if you have to. This is YOUR celebration. Your graduation! Your sis is probably too old to stop operating Green with envy.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Ms. Aligned said:


> To be fair, that's like a 6 hour plane ride (nonstop) at least.
> 
> Also, the problem is, he wanted to celebrate his success with the whole fam and this seemed like an opportune time to do so.


This is precisely it; they missed the point completely. It's the fact that it's hurtful that I wanted to spend some time with them over something accomplished. If they don't want to, fine.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Sensational said:


> This actually doesn’t make me think of MBTI
> 
> It makes me thinks of negative traits I consider typical to an eldest child
> 
> ...


Wonderful advice! I was honestly planning on celebrating with my mom, dad, and twin sister (not the ESTP). I'm probably going to say it like how you phrased it: "This is what we're doing it, hopefully you can make it, if you can't, okay.".


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Sensational said:


> This actually doesn’t make me think of MBTI
> 
> It makes me thinks of negative traits I consider typical to an eldest child
> 
> ...


Also sorry that your daughter ruined your birthday. How do you interact with someone like that as your daughter? 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Hi there, have an elder ESTP sister, 31.
> 
> I'm graduating from undergrad in a week, and ESTP sister proposed idea that we celebrate in some way to my father. Father brought this up to mother. Mother brought this up to me. I text sister asking if her and her family would want to do anything while we are in Disney World. We will only get one dinner and one lunch with them (wtf? okay.). Sister tells me that "I'm sure we'll still see you" and she describes my behavior as "hustling." and that: "This is Callie (4 y.o niece's) first time at Disney, we'll be busy.". Now, it's fine to be busy at Disney world especially with a child's first time...but one fucking evening? Seriously? Come onnnnn. More excuses than a preacher in a whore house.
> 
> ...


Your sister sounds like Grade-A entitled attention whore, who resents it whenever you ask for even a scrap of recognition. Unfortunately, given the family dynamic you've outlined, low contact (or no contact) may be your best option as soon as that is feasible. Family is more than just blood. You can make your own with people who have your back and build you up instead of tearing you down. Find your peeps.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

deafcrossfitter said:


> Also sorry that your daughter ruined your birthday. How do you interact with someone like that as your daughter?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I’m happy to hear for your own sake that you took things into your hands and made your own plan with the rest of your family to celebrate and dropped the ball in her court. It’s your graduation and you worked hard and deserve to celebrate with people who want to celebrate you making a huge accomplishment.

I appreciate that thought. (As far as my eldest daughter). It was not my birthday, it was my youngest daughter and my mother preparing a meal for the family. It was more about my younger daughter cooking an entire Italian meal from scratch for 12 hours with my mom and hosting a meal. And then my eldest came in and directed all attention to herself. (So not about me at all, other than my eldest trying to get a rise out of me during the entire thing).

Anyways she is my daughter (so not my sibling). So my advice to my younger daughter dealing with her older sis, or you dealing with your older sis, is going to be different than how I deal with my eldest daughters idiosyncrasies.

I usually have to mentally prepare ahead. I usually have to set boundaries. I’m big about telling her that I’d be happy to discuss something in private, but continually setting the consistency of a message group platforms for personal stuff about her I will not engage. As far as her trying to divert a group for personal attention. I’m firm with her that if she’d like to or needs to talk in private I’m her mom and will be There for her. I’ve been decent about setting this standard across the board within our home space.

The example I gave was her at grandparents with others involved and her sis as the casualty. So she saw an opening asked for an inch they gave it and she ran a mile. Hence why I just walked off 🤣. I’m an asshole like that. I wasn’t going to take her bait and call out her insensitivity. But I also wasn’t going to sit like my mom like I have shit to prove to my daughter in this way. My mom and her dad have to enable to win favor. I don’t, lucky for me I command more respect. But regardless the message still was my eldest daughter stealing her Sis’ thunder. Similar to you.

So anyways I just accept it’s because my daughter is emotionally immature in this way and it’s an idiosyncrasy. I’m transparent, to her that I will not enable that behavior. She knows that. I had very little to do with this story, it was way more about her taking advantage of her sis. Because her Lil sis is not like me. Her Lil Sis is usually her biggest cheerleader. Me I’m the known callous asshole who will walk off on basically any family or friend acting like this 🤣. So because I don’t engage with anyone it even allows the eldest who does this to know it’s not personal. But for her to do that to her Sis who is really sweet to her (that was sad).

So she knows I’m her mom and so will support her. But she also knows don’t fucken text me your drama. If it’s bad enough call. Don’t table talk it in group settings. Don’t steal thunder at someone else’s shit etc. I’m that way across the board with all people. You’ve gotta be fucken dying for me to validate someone in a happy group setting who needs to drop their sad shit. As I said I walk off. Being a cig smoker really comes in handy lol.

So I ignore in public. In private I comfort or redirect. That doesn’t mean my eldest daughter never gets public accolades/recognition, or attention from me. It means she gets it when it’s her celebration, or when she communicates in what I consider appropriately. Not during someone else’s celebration or thing or whatever.

She texted me like a month ago outta nowhere to vent all her grievances with me as a parent. She also did the same with her dad (separately). Her dad got defensive and name called and then to make up for the whole thing bought her a Mac book pro. So his response was to get butt hurt, name call, and bribe. 🤷🏻‍♀️

To the contrast of what he did I was like… I love you, I’m sure some of your complaints are valid. If you’d like to set aside time to discuss this we can. But I’m not reading all this shit you text me, and I’m not responding to all this in a text. 🤣. I left it two days. Then I called her and said if she wants to be treated like an adult than she can act like one and not to text me like that if she expects me to listen. She apologized. So she’s just testing her waters to see who she can do what with as an adult. With me she realized I’m not going to respond. And with her dad she learned she can trigger him until he snaps and then he’ll get her a ridiculous gift to later make up for it 🤣🤣🤣.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Sensational said:


> This actually doesn’t make me think of MBTI
> 
> It makes me thinks of negative traits I consider typical to an eldest child
> 
> ...


With all due respect because I know you're going through a lot. This is horrible advice and something I'm trying to break my family of. Any time there is a miscommunication or hurt feelings, it's never a discussion. Never understanding from both parties, and never resolved. 

All there is, is a never ending cycle of neglect, pain, and hurting in response. I feel hurt, so I neglegt, then cause pain to the other passive aggressively. It makes me feel better in the moment, and like a badass. I get my 15 min of fam fame, then it's someone eles's turn to take the brunt of it. Usually the one who can't stand it anymore. 

It's a never ending cycle. And, what I've been telling my fam recently is, "Look. We can all do this game for the rest of our lives which makes no one happy because it means someone is always 'out'." OR!!!!! We can all take a step back, and understand...My actions now are going to hurt the people I love the most in this world. That's not something I want right now, even though I (or whoever), is feeling hurt. 

Rather than reacting, we can all take a step back and realize we love each other beyond these petty arguments. Learn to appreciate each other for who we are, and start seeing each other with a new lense. It's not a competition. Fam taking sides only reinforces competition, leads to hurt feelings, and resentment, which only provides the platform for the next argument. 

What you're doing to your eldest daughter by ignoring her, is likened to the "Blank face" experiment in psychology. You're not diffusing anything, you're only making it worse, and drawing your lines in the sand. 

If you WANT to go to war with your fam, that's fine. But, it's not something that will leave happy memories, happy childhood, good growth development, or lead to being a responsible adult. Figure out the disfunction now, and do better. While you still can. 

Much love. - Miss Aligned.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Also, as a fellow Italian, I would love to know what took your fam 12 hours to make. I love sharing food stories. I suppose it's part of our culture.  I'd guess short ribs in gravy. Lol


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Ms. Aligned said:


> With all due respect because I know you're going through a lot. This is horrible advice and something I'm trying to break my family of. Any time there is a miscommunication or hurt feelings, it's never a discussion. Never understanding from both parties, and never resolved.
> 
> All there is, is a never ending cycle of neglect, pain, and hurting in response. I feel hurt, so I neglegt, then cause pain to the other passive aggressively. It makes me feel better in the moment, and like a badass. I get my 15 min of fam fame, then it's someone eles's turn to take the brunt of it. Usually the one who can't stand it anymore.
> 
> ...


I can totally respect you have an entirely different approach.

I think you probably may not have picked up on however that when she was 17 and under I would have and have called out quite a lot.

There are certain times where it’s good to draw a line IMO. Like if I notice a pattern of attention seeking. And after years of addressing to her direct. There’s a point where one does not keep doing the same thing and expect different results. I do truly believe the best medicine right now is absolutely not acknowledging it. I’m forcing her to not have any ammunition or reasons for anyone else responding to have to find new ways to communicate.

I think you may think I was suggesting I’m usually or have always been dismissive and avoidant. No. I am now. I adjust myself to the mood and faze. I’m not holding this against my daughter I know she will evolve. Especially after she realizes more people stop giving her attention for this crap. She knows right from wrong.

I absolutely think I should draw line in the sand and tell her when she wants to not text frustrations, and cry over other peoples celebrations that I’m here if she needs me. I am absolutely going to set a line for how I expect to communicate with her as an adult. I’m not going to have someone pout and scream that they’re 18 and can interrupt everyone else’s party if they want to.

I respect your right to disagree. Though. It’s entirely different perspectives on approach.

I’d say it’s passive aggressive to bring up yourself and cry at someone else’s celebration. Not walk the fuck off so ya don’t chew someone out for trying to push your triggers. I’m actually being responsible by not responding, because whatever I’d say in such instances wouldn’t be pretty. It doesn’t mean I didn’t address this with her. It means I didn’t stop the dinner to give her more attention for it. I called her out later and said I thought it was in poor taste. I left it at that.

There are alotta factors in this family equation playing into the dynamic too. Like my narcissistic mother who has been pandering to my eldest and partying with her. My mom insisted on this dinner dragging my youngest there, who she usually ignores anyways. Only because I called out my mom never tries to do anything nice with my youngest because she is too busy having a midlife crisis and trying to party with my eldest. I am not particularly close to my mother who stages these settings. So no I was not only not going to react to my daughter but slso say anything that could be used to pander and enable my daughter more than my mom already partying with her etc is. I recognize we all have our own shit. I’m just explaining no I absolutely think the best thing I could have done being trapped there only to eat the food the youngest made.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Ms. Aligned said:


> Also, as a fellow Italian, I would love to know what took your fam 12 hours to make. I love sharing food stories. I suppose it's part of our culture.  I'd guess short ribs in gravy. Lol


Meat balls that IMO did not need to take that long but it was my moms dealio not mine.

I usually go there 1-2 times a year for forced dinner for my kids sake 😉.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Sensational said:


> I can totally respect you have an entirely different approach.
> 
> I think you probably may not have picked up on however that when she was 17 and under I would have and have called out quite a lot.
> 
> ...


I see...in my family, I've already come to the conclusion that the only thing we have in this world are each other. I've gone through the pangs of trying to be emotionally mature (for example) but unless you're a rags to riches 1/million story that doesn't really happen. No one "escapes" their environment, and manages to come out the fire completely unscathed. 

I'm asking you (and I have no idea why I would) to consider that you may have all been scathed. And instead of dishing it back, maybe reassess or reconsider whether these petty things really make a difference in your life. It can be empowering, for sure, but it also needs a solution.


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## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Sensational said:


> Meat balls that IMO did not need to take that long but it was my moms dealio not mine.
> 
> I usually go there 1-2 times a year for forced dinner for my kids sake 😉.


Mmmm! Mea-at-balls! My fam makes the best, hands down. Now that is a competition I can get behind, Lol! In my "Sunday gravy" I use a mixture of beef, pork, and I can't remember what else. Lol. Braccioles, have always been my favorite. 

The feast of the 7 fishes is coming up, and only my mom knows how to make that. I have a phobia of fish, so I'm not the best learner. It's only this year, I feel my mother is getting older, the fam has disintegrated. I wont touch fish, but maybe I can make my mom some "lolipop" lamb chops broiled with lemon, garlic, and butter.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Ms. Aligned said:


> I see...in my family, I've already come to the conclusion that the only thing we have in this world are each other. I've gone through the pangs of trying to be emotionally mature (for example) but unless you're a rags to riches 1/million story that doesn't really happen. No one "escapes" their environment, and manages to come out the fire completely unscathed.
> 
> I'm asking you (and I have no idea why I would) to consider that you may have all been scathed. And instead of dishing it back, maybe reassess or reconsider whether these petty things really make a difference in your life. It can be empowering, for sure, but it also needs a solution.


I’m not dishing anything is what I keep saying. I keep my guard up. And I don’t trust them.

My daughter is different. She’s in a faze. I’m not dishing anything to her. I’m trying to stay away from drama.

My mom is currently trying to fuck out on my stepdad of 22 yrs after never holding a job. She is seeing someone behind his back while my stepdad pays for all her plastic surgery. Would you trust this woman? Especially if after leaving you for years to raise your kids barely ever able to even help pick them up from school etc, suddenly came to town and wanted to party with your daughter? I’m not dishing anything. I’m trying not to engage and snap.

My daughter knows damn well I’m not avoiding her and that I’m avoiding the company she keeps (my mom). My daughter and I will be fine after this faze passes.

No I’m not going to be vulnerable or authentic in anyway around my bro, mom, or stepdad. My bro is brainwashed and doesn’t even know what our moms doing. I can’t look my stepdad in the eye because I know too much. And I can’t respect my mother and her new found body and face and the way she’s behaving using my children as pawns. She already went out of her way to put a bug in my kids ear everyone is afraid to take my kids because I’ll get mad. There’s alotta backstory here I’m not going to go further on.

But I am not the retaliation family member in our family (that’s my baby sis who wasn’t even present). I’m the get the fuck outta here family member. I got sucked in because my mom was trying to save face and pretend she is not a vain person by suddenly cooking for the first time with my youngest. So I had to go to support my youngest getting sucked into my moms ego boost.


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## deafcrossfitter (Nov 30, 2019)

Sensational said:


> Meat balls that IMO did not need to take that long but it was my moms dealio not mine.
> 
> I usually go there 1-2 times a year for forced dinner for my kids sake 😉.


I'd love to PM you about a healthy ESTP, you seem like one.


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