# SJ/SP clash



## Thinkist (Sep 8, 2011)

I have deduced the one temperament I fear the most is SJs. Being around SJs or an SJ vibe for most of my life has made me a little paranoid about this world which is mostly filled with SJs (less than half of the population, but still...). Not really a surprise, since SJs and SPs are opposite temperaments. I am especially conspicuous of the ESJs (and to some extent ENTJs), who appear to be the most insistent and persistent of all SJs, to the point of sickening annoyance. Any advice at all to ease the internal pain I feel whenever I come across such an SJ?

I have also posted this in the SJ forum and am seeking advice from SPs here.


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## Cheebye (Mar 9, 2011)

I actually kinda like SJs because they help get things done plus can be cute when you annoy them. It's the NTs which you have to be careful about because they always have some plan brewing.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Ah...I have this problem more with ESTJs than any other SJ...it's the Te domination and structure, and as an ISTP you may feel this more with ESFJs, instead. 

You also don't say how old you are. You may realize you love SJs as you get older, though while you're a teenager/young adult you may feel like they're boxing you in because you're still forming your identity. I had more problems with SJs in my teens and early twenties. 

I actually like ISxJs as romantic partners, and I was in a LTR with an ESFJ. However, I could never, ever, NEVER imagine being in a relationship with an ESTJ, lol.

I would say if you're an ISTP the best way to deal with particular ESxJs who make you feel this way is to simply avoid them and do your own thing. I haven't even spoken to a particular ESTJ from my family in ...like...five years? It's not that I have these problems with EVERY ESTJ though...there are ESTJs I can get along with perfectly fine on a casual basis, as long as it's just friends or acquaintances that are on equal footing, and not someone who is either A) in some position of authority over me OR B) someone I was dating. 

I have little annoyances with SJ boyfriends, like thinking they're overly cautious or conventional sometimes, but it's only minor, and usually I prefer their company and remind myself that the same thing that makes them seem more cautious and conventional than me is also the fact that I love that they are more....er...stable, and they tend to be quite loyal. I'm attracted to their stability and take the minor annoyances as a trade off. Besides, it's NOTHING in comparison to the extreme problems I would feel with some other types, ftr.

SJs and SPs aren't "opposite temperaments" btw, going by Keirsey the opposite of an SP is an NF. And as an ISTP, ENFP is your total Jungian opposite and ENFJ shares your same functions...but backward. 

Good luck. Remember - people are individuals, not all people of one type are the same!


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Cheebye said:


> I actually kinda like SJs because they help get things done plus can be cute when you annoy them. It's the NTs which you have to be careful about because they always have some plan brewing.


Oh, come on. Our plans aren't always nefarious.


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## Zulu (Oct 15, 2011)

I get along really well with ISTJs but ESTJs can really get on my nerves... kinda weird.


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## Thinkist (Sep 8, 2011)

After reading the Personality Page growth pages for both of the ESJs, I figured out what really bothers me about them. Probably what I'm getting at is how to coerce the unhealthy and ocntrolling ESJs into opening up, as well as trying to alleviate my stereotypical images of an SJ.



fourtines said:


> Ah...I have this problem more with ESTJs than any other SJ...it's the Te domination and structure, and as an ISTP you may feel this more with ESFJs, instead.


Being quite balanced in my T/F dimension, I doubt that would be true. Yes, Te-dom can be a pain to deal with, but Fe less so.



fourtines said:


> You also don't say how old you are. You may realize you love SJs as you get older, though while you're a teenager/young adult you may feel like they're boxing you in because you're still forming your identity. I had more problems with SJs in my teens and early twenties.


True, and that may very well be another reason I never really liked SJs, maybe even judgers in general. It's as if they were trying to mess with me, trying to transform me into an STJ instead of the ISTP I was meant to be. However you have a point. Maybe I should start asserting my identity more if people try to change me, after all, only I can change me, and being as young as I am, I am still changing.



fourtines said:


> I actually like ISxJs as romantic partners, and I was in a LTR with an ESFJ. However, I could never, ever, NEVER imagine being in a relationship with an ESTJ, lol.


Me neither. There are some definite reasons I mentioned "especially ESJs." ISJs may be rigid, but at least they wouldn't try to mess with me as much as ESJs would.



fourtines said:


> I would say if you're an ISTP the best way to deal with particular ESxJs who make you feel this way is to simply avoid them and do your own thing. I haven't even spoken to a particular ESTJ from my family in ...like...five years? It's not that I have these problems with EVERY ESTJ though...there are ESTJs I can get along with perfectly fine on a casual basis, as long as it's just friends or acquaintances that are on equal footing, and not someone who is either A) in some position of authority over me OR B) someone I was dating.


True, but sometimes it seems as if I can't always avoid ESJs, especially ones in a position of authority and insistent about it. Maybe I just have to remember that more than half of the population consists of people who are not SJs.



fourtines said:


> SJs and SPs aren't "opposite temperaments" btw, going by Keirsey the opposite of an SP is an NF. And as an ISTP, ENFP is your total Jungian opposite and ENFJ shares your same functions...but backward.


I was going off of what I read in _Please Understand Me_....


BTW, thanks to all the SPs who replied. My thread in the SJ forum is still as blank as I left it. Seems really telling...

EDIT: I now have some valuable insight from an ISFJ and am content.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Thinkist said:


> I was going off of what I read in _Please Understand Me_....
> 
> 
> BTW, thanks to all the SPs who replied. My thread in the SJ forum is still as blank as I left it. Seems really telling...


If you were going by _Please Understand Me _then how could you not know that NF is the opposite of SP in Keirsey temperaments? 

SPs share concrete language with SJs and share a sort of "whatever works" pragmatism with NTs, while NFs and SJs are more cooperative and NFs and NTs are more abstract in language. 

Of course I don't strictly follow Keirsey myself, but I'm sorry you are mistaken on this point even by Keirsey standards.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Thinkist said:


> It's as if they were trying to mess with me, trying to transform me into an STJ instead of the ISTP I was meant to be.


By the way, I do relate to this. I related to it a lot growing up, especially, though I've firmly learned how to dodge it more or less as an adult.


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

I love many SJs, and I also avoid many SJs. It just depends on whether or not I'm able to get along with them. They can be annoying at times, but then again I'm probably more so to them. It's just a matter of understanding and respecting each other, for any type.


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