# Why is femininity oppressed in America?



## CmdrShep234 (Nov 22, 2014)

Women shouldn't be pressured to cut and dye their hair to become rich and powerful!

https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/a12215496/eileen-carey-dyed-hair-brown-taken-more-seriously-work/

Would women would be much happier if men didn't exist or were nothing more than mere sex toys?

With today's inequality it is much harder to be girly!

Without men there would be no war!

No capitalism!*

And no one to oppress femininity! 

Society would be much better if femininity was as powerful as masculinity!


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

Are you retarded?


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## integra (Nov 7, 2019)

it's not though.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Well, I laughed at least. 

But:


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## Abbaladon Arc V (Jan 16, 2018)

CmdrShep234 said:


> Women shouldn't be pressured to cut and dye their hair to become rich and powerful!
> 
> https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/a12215496/eileen-carey-dyed-hair-brown-taken-more-seriously-work/
> 
> ...


For once i'm not okay with some people her


i'm okay with you to be serious


I'm absolutely not Girly and i'm not gay but i think Femininity girls is not a problem but Femininity Men are opressed thats for real. 

i'm not into it but thats right.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

I'm actually kind of conflicted about this. She shouldn't have to dye her hair to be taken more seriously, but at the same time there are more seriously discriminatory things that go on in the business and working world. Well, at least her small sacrifice wasn't in vain and she's successful now. :laughing:

I guess I'm a bit jaded as I know a woman who had to agree to not have kids in order to advance her career, and to me, that seems orders of magnitude worse than dyeing your hair to manage how you're perceived.

The blonde fetishization thing. Definitely true for some guys and in some circles.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Have you seen how programmers dress? If a male programmer rolled in wearing a button up shirt and nice slacks he'd probably not be taken seriously either. 

The professional IT look seems to be pretending you're binge watching battle star galactica in between anything else with 4 day old Cheetos attached to you... of course dressing feminine wouldn't fit, unless the female is blind.


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## earth2mondo (Nov 9, 2019)

Lmao, it's masculinity that's repressed bud


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

There's some women who are girly at heart but grew up in liberal cultures where they were taught to be as men and there are women who are more ambitious at heart and grew up in traditionalist cultures where women are taught their roles.

The liberal culture dominates much of mainstream culture so it can appear that the pendulum is left-dominant and appearances is often all that's required for reality to be distorted until it becomes the new truth.


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## HIX (Aug 20, 2018)

The national animal is so butch that we're compensating

fat bison


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## Miss Sophia 124 (Oct 1, 2019)

Well, america is rather ESTP
https://personality-database.com/profile/50641/usa-countries-mbti-personality-type


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## Alice Alipheese (Aug 16, 2019)

Murica is ESTP? that explains so much....


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## Sybow (Feb 1, 2016)

Either this is satire or you got some f'd up ideas in your head x]


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

Alice Alipheese said:


> Murica is ESTP? that explains so much....


Of what?


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## Miss Sophia 124 (Oct 1, 2019)

Convex said:


> Of what?


Donald Trump ESTP is hated because Americans are being exposed to the world of what America really is. The rest of the world now understands... ESTP usa

Seems relevant to add that to this discussion post, after 2016 election and 2020 Elizabeth Warren 

Sent from my SM-J337T using Tapatalk


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

saintsophia124 said:


> Donald Trump ESTP is hated because Americans are being exposed to the world of what America really is. The rest of the world now understands... ESTP usa
> 
> Seems relevant to add that to this discussion post, after 2016 election and 2020 Elizabeth Warren
> 
> Sent from my SM-J337T using Tapatalk


You're in your own lil world aren't you


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## Blazkovitz (Mar 16, 2014)

CmdrShep234 said:


> Women shouldn't be pressured to cut and dye their hair to become rich and powerful!
> 
> https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/a12215496/eileen-carey-dyed-hair-brown-taken-more-seriously-work/
> 
> ...


It's not femininity that is oppressed but innocence and child-like qualities. It's not about gender but life stage. In Western society 14-year-olds are already pressured into looking like young adults and 40-year-olds are pressured to still look like young adults.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Convex said:


> You're in your own lil world aren't you


Aren't you? Pretty much whole world sees it as joke (because Trump, gun culture, big ass trucks, racism, pollution, school shootings, obesity, consumerism, lies). Trump is epitome of that, he's fat, obnoxious, racist, dumb. And nation elected someone like him.


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

The red spirit said:


> Aren't you? Pretty much whole world sees it as joke (because Trump, gun culture, big ass trucks, racism, pollution, school shootings, obesity, consumerism, lies). Trump is epitome of that, he's fat, obnoxious, racist, dumb. And nation elected someone like him.


What does this have to do with me, and what makes you think I like any of those things? Except the guns and trucks, who doesn't like those


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Convex said:


> What does this have to do with me?


Didn't you say "You're in your own lil world aren't you?"?



Convex said:


> and what makes you think I like any of those things?


It doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's about being aware of that and from what you say it's obvious that you aren't aware.



Convex said:


> Except the guns and trucks, who doesn't like those


Trump? Racism? Pollution? School shootings? Obesity? Consumerism? Lies?

With exceptions to consumerism, nobody likes any of those.


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

The red spirit said:


> Didn't you say "You're in your own lil world aren't you?"?
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if you like it or not, it's about being aware of that and from what you say it's obvious that you aren't aware.
> ...


Listen kid, I said what I said because she's not all there

I get you're on my dick, but at least read properly before assuming shit and trying to find fault in what I say with your dumbass interpretations


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

Ironic that Carey's company is called Glassbreakers! 

There are some components of gender issues here, but I also am not sure it is solely a gender concern in this one instance. Some other articles have explained that in this specific situation, the advice to dye her hair brown was given to her because there are more recognizable successful brunette CEOs, so investors considering funding her startup would be more likely to associate her with that pattern and therefore place trust in her. She mentioned the impact of it making her look older, as well. She appears to be a fairly petite, young-looking person generally, so that in addition to being blonde and female would negatively impact her initial impression of "powerful", which is typically linked with traits including being taller, older, etc. She also does not come across in video, at least to me, as very assertive, even though she does come across as serious.

That being said, I think it has been made fairly clear through data including demographic reports and individual explanations that the tech industry is largely male-dominated and that women have trouble being seen as competitive peers in that environment. There are additionally some highly concerning situations in leadership with women still being explicitly referred to as sexual opportunities (Dov Charney, for example). There is also social science research that one psychologist interviewed in accordance with this story mentioned, suggesting that women are less likely to be considered for management positions across the board when they have more feminine indicators such as makeup, jewelry, etc. At least personally I think there is a balance to strike between choosing what will help you personally be taken more seriously but also making assertive choices that help change your environment, because the hurdle will never be overcome if the answer is always just adapting. One woman on a talk show that covered this story gave the excellent advice for women to practice speaking up at least once per day, which helps develop positioning in input and leadership without having anything to do with alteration of appearance at all.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

Convex said:


> Listen kid, I said what I said because she's not all there


You literaly said that to show that someone else is narrow-minded. While in fact you did a big mistake interpreting it yourself.



Convex said:


> I get you're on my dick, but at least read properly before assuming shit and trying to find fault in what I say with your dumbass interpretations


And aren't you on everyone's dick in perC? At this point you are the biggest troll here and you are getting infractions like there's no tommorow.


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## Convex (Jan 5, 2015)

The red spirit said:


> You literaly said that to show that someone else is narrow-minded. While in fact you did a big mistake interpreting it yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> And aren't you on everyone's dick in perC? At this point you are the biggest troll here and you are getting infractions like there's no tommorow.


Why are you trying to tell me the meaning and intent of something I said? The fact you're counting my infractions and start quoting it to random people like a passive aggressive bitch says enough about you


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

CmdrShep234 said:


> Women shouldn't be pressured to cut and dye their hair to become rich and powerful!
> 
> https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/reports/a12215496/eileen-carey-dyed-hair-brown-taken-more-seriously-work/
> 
> ...


If the feminine were as powerful as the masculine there would be war and everything else you mentioned


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## Panorama (Jul 19, 2017)

America - Porn, lol wtf - USA is hyper-sexualized,


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

This thread belongs in some Incel/MGTOW/Red Pill trash heap of a forum. 

PerC deserves so much better. Wish there was a way to stop the anal leakage from those parts of the internet on PerC.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

CmdrShep234 said:


> Women shouldn't be pressured to cut and dye their hair to become rich and powerful!
> 
> https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/rep...ey-dyed-hair-brown-taken-more-seriously-work/
> 
> ...


Matriarchal societies develop no technological sophistication, nor large scale long-distance trade.
So say goodbye to your iPhone (and, for that matter, Pumpkin Spice Latte).

OTOH, most men *want* to be sex toys...if the woman is attractive enough.
The women tend to get jaded and bitter over time, as they prefer bonding.
Many only find that out once they are 40 and unmarried, and the boy toys have moved on to younger versions of themselves, Karen. 

You have evidently conflated femininity with feminism (designed to give unattractive women greater social power, and to allow the rest of the women access to the hot men...for a span).


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

SilentScream said:


> This thread belongs in some Incel/MGTOW/Red Pill trash heap of a forum.
> 
> PerC deserves so much better. Wish there was a way to stop the anal leakage from those parts of the internet on PerC.


:laughing::laughing:


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

saintsophia124 said:


> Donald Trump ESTP is hated because Americans are being exposed to the world of what America really is. The rest of the world now understands... ESTP usa
> 
> Seems relevant to add that to this discussion post, after 2016 election and 2020 Elizabeth Warren
> 
> Sent from my SM-J337T using Tapatalk



Re: your post. Donald Trump is loved. Look at the attendance at his rallies, and compare to the empty seats at Biden and Warren rallies. The reason the rest of the world hates him, is he is forcing them to take their hands out of the US taxpayers' wallet.
And renegotiating trade deals so the US no longer gets ripped off.

Warren engaged in fraudulent cultural appropriation to land a six-figure teaching post at Harvard.
(She had been a corporate lawyer, working at a cushy $675/hr.)

She also flipped houses in Oklahoma City...like buying a house from an elderly woman for $30,000 and selling it for $145,000 five months later.

Re: your tagline. Hydrogen fluoride is worse.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

That's a great question.

All succesful women nowadays go for the tough look. https://www.google.com/search?q=cap...ie_lAhVjtIsKHV3TDPYQ_AUIESgB&biw=1920&bih=902

Instead of staying feminine. That makes me think you won't cut it if you don't ditch your original choices.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

SilentScream said:


> This thread belongs in some Incel/MGTOW/Red Pill trash heap of a forum.
> 
> PerC deserves so much better. Wish there was a way to stop the anal leakage from those parts of the internet on PerC.


And, the voice of open-mindedness is heard from again.

Free speech is designed for speech found to be offensive. That includes butthurt and badfeelz.

Incidentally, you do understand that Incel / MGTOW / Red Pill are all mutually exclusive by definition?

Incel == "can't get laid to save their life"
MGTOW == got shafted in divorce or saw it happen to someone close to them, wrote off women
Red Pill == actually looking at women's behaviour instead of what they say. 

The only thing they have in common is that they keep the men involved from primarily being used to meet women's 
every whim. Possible exception for the Incels who think that being a "nice boy" like they've been told all their lives,
will get the most attractive women interested in them. They often get very upset that it doesn't actually work like that...

A subset of Red Pill is PUAs who reverse-engineer women's selection and arousal mechanisms for short-term 
sexual escapades with a series of women while deliberately avoiding emotional / social commitment.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> Aren't you? Pretty much whole world sees it as joke (because Trump, gun culture, big ass trucks, racism, pollution, school shootings, obesity, consumerism, lies). Trump is epitome of that, he's fat, obnoxious, racist, dumb. And nation elected someone like him.


You do know that India and China both have carbon footprints which dwarf that of the US, right?
And that "gun culture" is even more ensconced into the Constitution (2nd Amendment, verbatim) than is abortion ("penumbra" magically discovered by a left-wing activist judge almost 200 years later)?
Big ass trucks hold more lumber and construction equipment than a Toyota Pious.
Racism -- Ask Ms. Jeong (late of the New York Times) all about that.
Pollution -- Richard Nixon established the EPA. Yeah, the Watergate guy.
School shootings -- usually (you can look it up) on psychiatric drugs in addition to smoking pot.
Obesity -- Blame Ancel Keys at the University of Minnesota for cherry-picking data on dietary fat; and high-fructose corn syrup as a sweetener.
Consumerism -- Generally agreed; do you include Pumpkin Spice Lattes and iPhones in that, though?
Lies -- talk to little Adam Schiff and his merry band of butthurts, like the Ukranian ambassador who said that being tweeted about by the President was like what the people at Benghazi went through (they were killed, by the way).

A lot of Trump's apparent bulk is bulletproof vests under his clothes.
He's obnoxious, but that's fine. He's finally telling the MSM what they deserve to hear. ("Fake News!")
(And he made his bones as a real estate developer in New York, not a place for the faint-hearted; and
his signature phrase on the hit TV show The Apprentice was "You're FIRED!" What did you expect,
Milquetoast Romney?)
Dumb ? Nope. IQ > 150. That's over 3 standard deviations over the mean.

(stifles yawn.)


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

g_w said:


> You do know that India and China both have carbon footprints which dwarf that of the US, right?


Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that, but USA is still at the top of pollution.



g_w said:


> Big ass trucks hold more lumber and construction equipment than a Toyota Pious.


Tell me about its mileage, speed, maneuverability and how often you go to IKEA



g_w said:


> Pollution -- Richard Nixon established the EPA. Yeah, the Watergate guy.


Didn't Trump dismantle EPA? 




g_w said:


> Obesity -- Blame Ancel Keys at the University of Minnesota for cherry-picking data on dietary fat; and high-fructose corn syrup as a sweetener.


Why not blame massive portions of food and people's eating culture? Somehow no other country has so many obese people. I think USA was the leading country at that, but I would need to check facts.



g_w said:


> Consumerism -- Generally agreed; do you include Pumpkin Spice Lattes and iPhones in that, though?


Mostly culture of "oh my X is so old I had it for 2 years". 



g_w said:


> Lies -- talk to little Adam Schiff and his merry band of butthurts, like the Ukranian ambassador who said that being tweeted about by the President was like what the people at Benghazi went through (they were killed, by the way).


I was talking about how corporations and USA's politicians are pathological liars, but ok.



g_w said:


> A lot of Trump's apparent bulk is bulletproof vests under his clothes.


Then why no other president was so fat. Obama? Bushes? Clinton? Reagan? Carter?



g_w said:


> He's obnoxious, but that's fine. He's finally telling the MSM what they deserve to hear. ("Fake News!")
> (And he made his bones as a real estate developer in New York, not a place for the faint-hearted; and
> his signature phrase on the hit TV show The Apprentice was "You're FIRED!" What did you expect,
> Milquetoast Romney?)
> Dumb ? Nope. IQ > 150. That's over 3 standard deviations over the mean.


I get it, he deserves a nice place at WWE, but he isn't suited to be a president with all his characteristics. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm very sorry if this post was offensive, but I just wanted to share a rather common perspective of how people outside of US see US. Most of the time it's from media, who are well known to talk trash about everything as long as it attracts audience. It's definitely not a factual USA. USA is wonderful at some things (computer tech, sports), awful at others. That applies to every country. I just wanted to say some distinct qualities of USA, that appear in local media (foreign media if you are from USA). Media is often really dumb and I think it does more harm than good. Over years it has portrayed some countries very differently than they actually are, example Japan (land of anime, otakus, weird shit, high tech, samurais are so cool, language is so impossibru).


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## Crowbo (Jul 9, 2017)

Here we go again with this shit


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

saintsophia124 said:


> Well, america is rather ESTP
> https://personality-database.com/profile/50641/usa-countries-mbti-personality-type


Lol, I was thinking about doing this for months.

Even the choices I agree with. I mean The Netherlands is truly ENTP, and USA is 100% ESTP.
(I would put France ENFP instead of INFP (home of the Enlightenment), but overall it's great.


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## Albatross (Jan 18, 2019)

Well, women did ask for equality... Without specifying that they wanted the access to job to be equal or and not to have to share men masculine qualities to get it... 
I don't mean it's womens fault but by asking that men see us like men some of them took it literally and due to a certain amount of protest against the so called construct femininity, women are mostly equal and considered like that. But on the other hand the notion of femininity is now deprived of values in a job environment and a Heels and dress girls is thought to be dumber thant a jean tee-shirt one just like a reserved and delicate one compare to an upfront and rough one. 

As for you asking if you would not be better with a human sex doll for boyfriend and quoting a cosmo article, magazine that created that motto with the "fiercely independant cosmo girl" that wanted that type of equality, it's such an exemple of a "be careful what you wish for" type of backfire.

But of course it is despicable, but don't blame it on men, really, for once it's a 70's women mistake more than anything else.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

g_w said:


> You do know that India and China both have carbon footprints which dwarf that of the US, right?
> And that "gun culture" is even more ensconced into the Constitution (2nd Amendment, verbatim) than is abortion ("penumbra" magically discovered by a left-wing activist judge almost 200 years later)?
> Big ass trucks hold more lumber and construction equipment than a Toyota Pious.
> Racism -- Ask Ms. Jeong (late of the New York Times) all about that.
> ...


What's kind of funny about your response is that you seem to be writing all of this shit ironically on why people from other first world countries see Americans as some stereotypical joke stuck in the past.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

The red spirit said:


> Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that, but USA is still at the top of pollution.


Nope. Most of the plastic in the oceans comes from Asia. And in China, the city of Harbin managed to have a 250,000 GALLON spill of benzene.
...oh, Jim Jubak of MSN Money once cited the statistic that 250,000 people a year die of pollution in China. 
I've spoken with Americans who worked in Beijing who talked about how they could only work a couple of weeks at a time or worsen their lung conditions.




The red spirit said:


> Tell me about its mileage, speed, maneuverability and how often you go to IKEA


I don't drive one myself. I drive a manual transmission sedan which gets 40-44 mpg. But I'm not in the farming or construction business.

Counter-snark 4-wheel drive Hummer to go to Starbucks.




The red spirit said:


> Didn't Trump dismantle EPA?


Unfortunately, not yet. Some of their regulations are ridiculous, like one limiting arsenic-treated wood (IIRC) which was estimated to cost 1 TRILLION dollars per life saved.





The red spirit said:


> Why not blame massive portions of food and people's eating culture? Somehow no other country has so many obese people. I think USA was the leading country at that, but I would need to check facts.


The United States government has long encouraged vast overproduction of food. China and Russia should be grateful.
But Ancel Keys goes to the food pyramid and the "fat-free" (but loaded with sugar) craze.
Non-politicized science has and is revolutionizing the field of cardiovascular health: about 30 years too late for most Americans.




The red spirit said:


> Mostly culture of "oh my X is so old I had it for 2 years".


Rank consumerism.




The red spirit said:


> I was talking about how corporations and *USA's politicians* are pathological liars, but ok.


 Liddle Adam Schiff *is* a politician. So is Joe Biden.

https://pics.me.me/lets-review-this-resume-thrown-out-of-the-military-for-63507968.png




The red spirit said:


> Then why no other president was so fat. Obama? Bushes? Clinton? Reagan? Carter?


Obama did cocaine by his own admission ("...maybe a little blow when _ could afford it.")
As for the others, they are thinner. Might be age related or lack of exercise.
But he is apparently in excellent overall health despite that.




The red spirit said:



I get it, he deserves a nice place at WWE, but he isn't suited to be a president with all his characteristics.

Click to expand...

I think he's an excellent President: he is delivering much of what his party has been giving empty promises to do, for a generation.
Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman, when asked when the stock market would recover following President Trump's election, said, a first-pass answer is never. 
Whoops. I think the Dow just hit an all-time record yesterday.
People openly talked about Trump being unstable enough to start a nuclear war. I haven't heard any air-raid sirens lately.
He passed the largest tax cut in US history, renegotiated or pulled out of bad treaties or trade deals, and is beginning finally to crack down on illegal immigration into the country. Just today a US Border Patrol agent shot a *RUSSIAN* sneaking in from Mexico.
Not to mention appointing a slew of non-(left wing activist) judges.

And did I mention making the US energy-independent? We don't *have* to get entangled in Middle East wars anymore.

And he's just getting started, having to overcome massive opposition from the Swamp-dwellers within his own party. (Ex-speaker of the House Paul Ryno, I'm looking at you. And the late John McCain.)




The red spirit said:



Don't get me wrong, I'm very sorry if this post was offensive, but I just wanted to share a rather common perspective of how people outside of US see US. Most of the time it's from media, who are well known to talk trash about everything as long as it attracts audience. It's definitely not a factual USA. USA is wonderful at some things (computer tech, sports), awful at others. That applies to every country. I just wanted to say some distinct qualities of USA, that appear in local media (foreign media if you are from USA). Media is often really dumb and I think it does more harm than good. Over years it has portrayed some countries very differently than they actually are, example Japan (land of anime, otakus, weird shit, high tech, samurais are so cool, language is so impossibru).

Click to expand...

If you get your idea of the US from Hollywood, for example, you'd think that every city of over 200 people have daily running gun battles.
But others, particularly Europeans, tend to vastly underestimate the sheer *size* of the US. One story I saw on another site, was of an American in California, who got a call from friends just flown in from Europe to Florida. It was 10 AM; did he think they could make it to L.A. by 4 PM? (headdesk)

The below is just one state -- Texas -- superimposed over Europe.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/germany.png

Have a good night!_


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

g_w said:


> Nope. Most of the plastic in the oceans comes from Asia. And in China, the city of Harbin managed to have a 250,000 GALLON spill of benzene.
> ...oh, Jim Jubak of MSN Money once cited the statistic that 250,000 people a year die of pollution in China.
> I've spoken with Americans who worked in Beijing who talked about how they could only work a couple of weeks at a time or worsen their lung conditions.


Look at this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint



g_w said:


> I don't drive one myself. I drive a manual transmission sedan which gets 40-44 mpg. But I'm not in the farming or construction business.


People in Europe more often say liters per 100 kilometers, buk ok. That's around 5.4 - 5.8. My dad's Peugeot 406 2.0 HDi gets around 7-8 l/100km. Also sedan and manual (never saw these cars with auto).




g_w said:


> Unfortunately, not yet. Some of their regulations are ridiculous, like one limiting arsenic-treated wood (IIRC) which was estimated to cost 1 TRILLION dollars per life saved.


You may hate me, but I think it's worth it. Human lives matter more than some wood. BTW can you enlighten me why wood is treated that way?




g_w said:


> The United States government has long encouraged vast overproduction of food. China and Russia should be grateful.


Why Russia? They didn't have real famine in centuries. Latest famines were completely political and even then Russia wasn't making food itself, at least not most of it.



g_w said:


> But Ancel Keys goes to the food pyramid and the "fat-free" (but loaded with sugar) craze.
> Non-politicized science has and is revolutionizing the field of cardiovascular health: about 30 years too late for most Americans.


Do you guys even have science, that isn't touched by politics? Everywhere I read something about US education, I hear that it's all political or even better that lecturer is complete poloitical nutjob.



g_w said:


> Obama did cocaine by his own admission ("...maybe a little blow when _ could afford it.")
> As for the others, they are thinner. Might be age related or lack of exercise.
> But he is apparently in excellent overall health despite that._


_
You sure about that? He looks like a fucking simpson. His skin is really orange.




g_w said:



I think he's an excellent President: he is delivering much of what his party has been giving empty promises to do, for a generation.
Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman, when asked when the stock market would recover following President Trump's election, said, a first-pass answer is never. 
Whoops. I think the Dow just hit an all-time record yesterday.
People openly talked about Trump being unstable enough to start a nuclear war. I haven't heard any air-raid sirens lately.
He passed the largest tax cut in US history, renegotiated or pulled out of bad treaties or trade deals, and is beginning finally to crack down on illegal immigration into the country.  Just today a US Border Patrol agent shot a *RUSSIAN* sneaking in from Mexico.
Not to mention appointing a slew of non-(left wing activist) judges.

Click to expand...

You may say that, but some others believe that Trump has capacity to anger people, that he shouldn't






at around 21 minute, it's about Trump



g_w said:



If you get your idea of the US from Hollywood, for example, you'd think that every city of over 200 people have daily running gun battles.
But others, particularly Europeans, tend to vastly underestimate the sheer *size* of the US. One story I saw on another site, was of an American in California, who got a call from friends just flown in from Europe to Florida. It was 10 AM; did he think they could make it to L.A. by 4 PM? (headdesk)

Click to expand...

It's barely possible to go from Kaunas to Klaipėda in 4 hours via highway (obviously if you are speeding and going at 140-150 kmh). It takes about one hour to go 70 km, if you aren't on highway and you drive 20 kmh over limit and be aggressive in cities. It looks to me that such Europeans have barely ever driven out of their hometown. Pretty much same story in Spain, it takes around 1 hour to drive 70 km out of Barcelona.




g_w said:



The below is just one state -- Texas -- superimposed over Europe.

https://www.texasmonthly.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/germany.png

Have a good night!

Click to expand...

Not exactly surprising, I know from Geography that different map projections distort sizes a lot._


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Albatross said:


> Well, women did ask for equality... Without specifying that they wanted the access to job to be equal or and not to have to share men masculine qualities to get it...
> I don't mean it's womens fault but by asking that men see us like men some of them took it literally and due to a certain amount of protest against the so called construct femininity, women are mostly equal and considered like that. But on the other hand the notion of femininity is now deprived of values in a job environment and a Heels and dress girls is thought to be dumber thant a jean tee-shirt one just like a reserved and delicate one compare to an upfront and rough one.
> 
> As for you asking if you would not be better with a human sex doll for boyfriend and quoting a cosmo article, magazine that created that motto with the "fiercely independant cosmo girl" that wanted that type of equality, it's such an exemple of a "be careful what you wish for" type of backfire.
> ...


Now I'll be the feminist here. If you have to repress a part of yourself in order to get a job that's not equality.
A man has to make sacrifices too but they would never be encouraged to dress like a woman or some shit to get a job.
That's unneccessary and it's actually a sign why the United States is not working.


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## Albatross (Jan 18, 2019)

jetser said:


> Now I'll be the feminist here. If you have to repress a part of yourself in order to get a job that's not equality.
> A man has to make sacrifices too but they would never be encouraged to dress like a woman or some shit to get a job.
> That's unneccessary and it's actually a sign why the United States is not working.


Well I never said it was equality, I said on the contrary that due to how women asked for it, I mean equality, (as in _we are equa_l in the sense of "similar" to men) it's no wonder how things like that happen today. 
We all (or in majority) grew up - and not only the US, France and europe too - learning how non different we were from men and all the thirty something or twenty something guys (and even girls) were taught that women were equal to men (but no one ever specified the in which way equal : Equal as in similar, or equal as in of same value and dignity... )
And so women entered the workplace having to pretend to be a man, and it is still here today, because faminists and the so called "partriarchy" alike are seen femininity as a non professional thing. 
It is not due to inner sexism or I don't know, it is a mistake from 70s feminists, but yes it is not equality and it isn't fair, but what would you expect from years of bashing a girly woman that prefer pink, kindness, and is more reserved and as a certain way with people that would be called maternal as in she takes care of other and help them. 
As I speak at least in France (who took that in the US) a woman like that is not worth anything both on the femisists activists side and the workplace, because she is not masculine enough, because feminists in the 70s decided to embodied a second hand masculinity (most people like the original to the copy) and decided to undervalue most feminine side of themselves. In today's society where everything is about appearances, no wonder why cutting your hair and dressing sloppy might be a thing to succeed better...
I repeat it is not fair but it is not mens responsalbility so it ain't any patriarchy that decided that, it is the 2nd wave feminism in the US...


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Albatross said:


> Well I never said it was equality, I said on the contrary that due to how women asked for it, I mean equality, (as in _we are equa_l in the sense of "similar" to men) it's no wonder how things like that happen today.
> We all (or in majority) grew up - and not only the US, France and europe too - learning how non different we were from men and all the thirty something or twenty something guys (and even girls) were taught that women were equal to men (but no one ever specified the in which way equal : Equal as in similar, or equal as in of same value and dignity... )
> And so women entered the workplace having to pretend to be a man, and it is still here today, because faminists and the so called "partriarchy" alike are seen femininity as a non professional thing.
> It is not due to inner sexism or I don't know, it is a mistake from 70s feminists, but yes it is not equality and it isn't fair, but what would you expect from years of bashing a girly woman that prefer pink, kindness, and is more reserved and as a certain way with people that would be called maternal as in she takes care of other and help them.
> ...


Then we agree on this.
Yes it's not fair, equality should mean that you don't have to change yourself in order to be taken seriously.

Interesting however, how feminism means a different thing in the US and in Central Europe. We in CE would never think of a girl who works during pregnancy as a feminist symbol, for example. A lot of things that the US presents to us (through movies and such) as feminism is actually commonplace in Europe, like working in pregnancy or having children at a late age.

The tough and assertive woman image which the US is so fond at is not very popular though. People think it's weird if you're a woman and you want to be like a man. There are clear distinctions between sexes. If you want to cross that line you have to have a solid reason. Like being a successful sportsperson or something.
I'm not saying it's better but it's different.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

CmdrShep234 said:


> Women shouldn't be pressured to cut and dye their hair to become rich and powerful!
> 
> https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/rep...ey-dyed-hair-brown-taken-more-seriously-work/


And taller men tend to have an advantage with getting into positions of power. At least you can change your hair color, unlike your height. 

My point is everyone has expectations placed upon them. 



CmdrShep234 said:


> Would women would be much happier if men didn't exist or were nothing more than mere sex toys?


I would say no for heterosexual women at least. 

If there was any real truth to your latter statement, women would be exclusively marrying young studs and not older wealthier men. 



CmdrShep234 said:


> With today's inequality it is much harder to be girly!


There's nothing stopping women from being girly. It's simply a matter of reality that your actions may carry consequences. For instance, if you party and drink excessively throughout college, you probably won't graduate at the top of your class. It's not that society is anti-fun and anti-alcohol, but you simply have a limitation of time and resources to pursue your priorities. Nobody lives forever and we only have 24 hours each day to get stuff done. 

If you want to be rich and powerful, you'll likely have to work very hard and be very professional. In the business world, people simply won't take you seriously if you act girly. There's nothing misogynistic about this as nobody in the business world will take seriously a guy who acts immature or is covered in tattoos. 



CmdrShep234 said:


> Without men there would be no war!


I guess catfights are just a figment of a man's sexual fantasy? Or female politicians have never been pro-war? 

During WW1, you literally had women shaming men who refused to go fight and die in the trenches! 



CmdrShep234 said:


> No capitalism!*


Ironic as it, capitalism allows people more options then say under a controlled economy. In tightly controlled societies, people have little to no freedom to choose how to run their professional/personal lives. 



CmdrShep234 said:


> And no one to oppress femininity!


Femininity isn't oppressed, at least not in western societies. 



CmdrShep234 said:


> Society would be much better if femininity was as powerful as masculinity!


If femininity was (in your context) as powerful as masculinity, femininity would cease to exist as it would be a carbon copy of masculinity.


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## Djairouks (Aug 26, 2019)

jetser said:


> Then we agree on this.
> Yes it's not fair, equality should mean that you don't have to change yourself in order to be taken seriously.
> 
> Interesting however, how feminism means a different thing in the US and in Central Europe. We in CE would never think of a girl who works during pregnancy as a feminist symbol, for example. A lot of things that the US presents to us (through movies and such) as feminism is actually commonplace in Europe, like working in pregnancy or having children at a late age.
> ...


Of course if you work hard and effectively as a woman and your boss doesn't acknowledge this on the sole matter of your gender, this constitutes discrimination, but the issue, is :
1° can you asses what other workers do or don't, that you are better, you don't live their lives do you.
2° that you do not have biases clouding your views of other people, or how things should be done.
To illustrate this, I have a close female friend in a DNA test lab, being mobbed by all women who gossip and diss her every day, since the boss presented results from her study that opened a new market and she got a raise... all of the women complained she earned more than they did, but instead of acknowledging their work isn't as good, they just put her down and she lost 5Kg because of the stress...while all men in the lab are nice and on her side no one asking for more money...

Because I can give many examples with friends of mine, guys working as nurses, ambulance medic, florist, small children daycare and tell you how discriminated they are for not being women or doing it wrong by women, treated as Subpar men because they do a female biased work, but nobody gives a damn, because it's not as fashionable to point out, women can be just as discriminative against men in the workplace, it is never a one way street as much as medias like to show.

That being said unless you are your own boss of your own self made company, everyone be it male or female will have to adjust and make concessions when doing any work in any company. Many times I saw things asked to men in the companies I worked in, that they might not really like but they basically shut up and made concessions, or quit, but now when the same thing was asked to some women it is somehow assumed that this only applies to women and that there is a basic sexist agenda.
The looks things in this article apply just as much to men, men with beautiful faces have it easier but are not seen as smart as more average men, being younger also plays, that's how my first company hired young people they pushed until burnout, then replaced them by other young people, older people would likely not fall for this, so it plays for both genders. 
You need to be dressed a certain way to be taken seriously, I encountered this in my early career, if I wore just jeans and a shirt at the office most would just not really notice me, some say hello. If I would wear a suit then people would notice me and not only say hello, but Hello Mr service tech, the looks commanded respect and seriousness, also long hair for men were not good nobody at the administration council had long hair, while women with long hair were prefered, so in a way both are discriminatory but not really you're there to work you do what you're told, so you either shut up and do like the company does, or you quit.

Work is work, neither gender should come into play, meaning that if you do an office work I don't see what being a nurturing woman or a macho man has any impact on the actual work to be done, you just do it. That's what in many women's minds got conflated with I need to be "masculine" to compete in the office... no you just need to work, you really think all men are very competitive and like they behave at work in other parts of life, that's totally wrong masculinity is not about work.

So your thinking is backwards, equality means that a job be it done by a man or a woman, has exactly the same requisites and functions and that the pay and things this job gives you, are the same ! you as a worker if you want to be effective will do what is needed also regardless of gender, if not, you might be deemed lesser or not effective, but again this happens to both gender in many different jobs.
To me nowadays people are prone to jump on the sexist excuse, because it's human who wants to admit to themselves, their work sucks and that the reason they don't get promoted is others work more, like my friend in the DNA lab... nobody really.

Humans are by definition biased and imperfect men and women both in different ways, let's stop pretending on is better than the other or more oppressed, this race for one sided equality is getting ridiculous!


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

daleks_exterminate said:


> Have you seen how programmers dress? If a male programmer rolled in wearing a button up shirt and nice slacks he'd probably not be taken seriously either.
> 
> The professional IT look seems to be pretending you're binge watching battle star galactica in between anything else with 4 day old Cheetos attached to you... of course dressing feminine wouldn't fit, unless the female is blind.







Oh look at that. I know my peeps 😂


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Djairouks said:


> Of course if you work hard and effectively as a woman and your boss doesn't acknowledge this on the sole matter of your gender, this constitutes discrimination, but the issue, is :
> 1° can you asses what other workers do or don't, that you are better, you don't live their lives do you.
> 2° that you do not have biases clouding your views of other people, or how things should be done.
> To illustrate this, I have a close female friend in a DNA test lab, being mobbed by all women who gossip and diss her every day, since the boss presented results from her study that opened a new market and she got a raise... all of the women complained she earned more than they did, but instead of acknowledging their work isn't as good, they just put her down and she lost 5Kg because of the stress...while all men in the lab are nice and on her side no one asking for more money...
> ...


I never said discrimination against men is okay.
But usually if I start to tirade about that I'm labeled as an incel.

Men recieve plenty of backlash but it's usually not work related. But like in childcare, social situations and dating. (start writing to a woman and you'll see)


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

flamesabers said:


> In the business world, people simply won't take you seriously if you act girly. There's nothing misogynistic about this


I think it is. The point is that you don't have to change yourself to look "professional". If acting girly (I don't know what that means but I guess it's dressing nicely, having a high pitch, and changing your mind constantly?) is not professional but being assertive and tough is, then you handed a huge benefit to men at the start.



> Femininity isn't oppressed, at least not in western societies.


Yes it is. You said it: femininity is not viewed as professional. The western world is all about business. If you want to make it big you have to ditch your femininity.
Thus: it is oppressed.


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## Miss Sophia 124 (Oct 1, 2019)

In USA, The native Americans came here first. So, that kind of feminity still remains. 

I dunno but money is a poison container. Lloyd demause thinks that Democrats prefer money to "bully', Republicans prefer... Basically living in the country rural areas doing whatever is acceptable. It's complicated. 

Lol once you identify the oppression, now what?

Lol you didn't come close. Karma. In America you take advantage of others suffering to make money and analyze oppression. ESTP

Now Trump becomes president makes it obvious now to Iran, Syria, 3rd world country factory workers etc 

SHTF


Sent from my Z559DL using Tapatalk


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## Djairouks (Aug 26, 2019)

jetser said:


> flamesabers said:
> 
> 
> > In the business world, people simply won't take you seriously if you act girly. There's nothing misogynistic about this
> ...


Seems to me you have a bias towards this unilateral oppression, it's not only women who are oppressed in this case, because in the office you have to be professional, doesn't matter what your genitalia is and there is girlyness typically assigned to women or immaturity more assigned to men, but you're actually kind of sexist here pretending only women can have behaviors that are seen as unprofessional, that's kind of ironic.
Both are deemed unprofessional and repressed in an office environment, like many other behaviors nor limited to one specific gender, the point is many men are also pushed to not be themselves, you're at work to make the company function and prosper, they don't care about your personality it doesn't matter if you're man or woman, as long as you are productive.

So the minute you are asked to adapt to rules or spaces, you are defacto oppressed !? So when you go to church and have to stay silent and wear a certain type of clothes, it is oppression then, anyone telling the church they are oppressing people !?
It's not femininity that's oppressed, the only people I see doing this honestly are hardcore feminists, who want women to always compete with men, behaving like what they think men do, which isn't really being masculine either, it's a cliché.
It's just that to be efficient in any work, there are rules that apply to both men or women, if you don't like it change your work, because the companies care very little for your feelings and needs, from any side of the gender.
But your assessment is flawed, structural function of all our world's infrastructures, employ billions of people that absolutely do not work in an office environment, so it isn't all about the business really, it's just that the business makes better headlines than hand workers.

Notice as well that those oppression examples are always higher position, office work where people want the be managers or higher rank !? Also no one argues for example, for women to become lumberjacks or construction workers that the oppression there is so bad, it doesn't happen because it doesn't apply to this narrative of systemic female oppression, in the jobs where anyway work is very hard physically and the earnings are not so high, as if somehow it isn't advancing female cause to do "lower" professions... hypocrisy anyone ?


Want to be a CEO, fine but you'll need to work more hours than any employees, have highest results and always compete with everyone. Reality is a majority of men do not want to do this either, some crazy ones do and that's fine if they really want it. That's where I just see women being more reasonable and wanting to enjoy life more (baby maybe too), so they are less enclined to be in such competition and that's fine too, but pretending this would solely be a product of systemic oppression put too many women in victim mode and guys as perpetrators of the oppression, which is pushing our society towards chaos more and more.

Look at my female friend story that I told, she just wants to work and not care about stories and gossip, which is seen as very professional by her boss, then all her female co-workers act like victims being less paid than her, while not putting the actual work behind. That's because of this oppression rethoric enabling this, it's freaking toxic and doesn't help anybody, it has nothing to do with being girly or not, I wish people would snap out of this crap. Now her boss (male) is affraid to really take a stand, because of the company reputation, with all the gossip and females discontent (company is female dominated like 75/25), risking to be labelled sexist or as you propose oppressing the women, so basically all the women can continue to mob my friend nothing happens, she's now preparing to go to court and quit the company because of that... great mentality really, that's the dark side of telling a certain group they are systemically oppressed, then some will feel entitled to better treatment and whatever stands in the way will be attacked in reaction, also some people of such group will get advantages or promotions based not on performance, but pushed by a certain fear of misrepresenting said group it's bad, I don't understand women that actually defend such things !


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## Lonewaer (Jul 14, 2014)

Femininity is not really oppressed in the US, no. It isn't in Western countries in general, for that matter. If the topic is "at work", which it isn't given the title of the thread, then neither. Workplace functions with power hierarchies and professionalism rather than sex or gender. You can be girly and still act professional. In many countries it is illegal to discriminate based on gender, so any inequality that people find are not related to it, full stop. Something that a lot of people seem to forget in general in the workplace… it's a pyramid. Not everyone can climb the ranks to the top, and certainly not everyone is nor will be competent enough to be at the top. That includes both genders, including the women who complain about glass ceilings and the men who are miners or lumberjacks.

And socially, it's all about meeting people halfway in order to get along, so both genders have to do it too. If anything nowadays some people seem to want to reverse the roles, so maybe in that sense, but that also means that masculinity is oppressed equally, so neither is more oppressed than the other.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

jetser said:


> Yes it is. You said it: femininity is not viewed as professional. The western world is all about business. If you want to make it big you have to ditch your femininity.
> Thus: it is oppressed.


I think there's a big difference between being girly and being feminine, just as there's a difference between being macho and being masculine. Maybe it's different in your part of the world, but where I live it's typical for businesswomen to wear make-up, jewelry and feminine attire such as a skirt and high heels. It's not like women are expected (or even encouraged) to dress and look like their male counterparts. 

What's unprofessional is when grown women try to look and act like they're teenagers at high school. This isn't anything unique against women, the same rule applies with grown men trying to regress to a masculine high school stereotype.


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## NoFear3 (Dec 15, 2019)

Bc femininity is a sex appeal, which leads to kids, which leads to 'suprapopulation' which is a scratch on the agenda.


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## NoFear3 (Dec 15, 2019)

Whod you rather sack? Someone feminine and cool - or a girl that want to become a lad, strap on or the real deal changed included.


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

g_w said:


> Nobel Prize winner Paul Krugman, when asked when the stock market would recover following President Trump's election, said, a first-pass answer is never. Whoops. I think the Dow just hit an all-time record yesterday.


Krugman, lol, he also said (in 1998): "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's." I'm not sure if getting a Nobel is still a compliment (who am I kidding, I still want one 


* *




That aside, and since we've talked about the market before, I would be cautious about the Trump/stock-market-melt-up connection. The opinion held by long-view macro pros I trust is more sober re this partying like it's (pre) 1929 -- they're suspicious this is only the _appearance_ of an economic boom (real growth). The concern is it's actually asset inflation (aka a bubble) by means of 'money printing'/artificially low interest rates/debt. 

Trump seems to have influence over the Fed --> good for him/his reelection chances ("you should be thanking me for the stock market!"), maybe not so good in other ways (the Cantillon effect & size of correction to come -- not that other politicians wouldn't be worse and not that we potentially haven't already passed the point of "inflate or die"). Just know that there are perma-Bulls like myself who are suddenly starting to diversify *like never before* for systemic risk (not that I expect anything negative to occur in the shorter term, fingers crossed 

Fwiw I completely agree with everything you said about free speech, diet etc. Wishing you & your family joy & prosperity over these holidays and in 2020 





Back on topic, I'll leave a poem I found recently (by E. Ethelbert Miller):

_The Ear is an Organ Made for Love

It was the language that left us first.
The Great Migration of words. When people
spoke they punched each other in the mouth.
There was no vocabulary for love. *Women
became masculine* and could no longer give
birth to warmth or a simple caress with their
lips. Tongues were overweight from profanity
and the taste of nastiness. It settled over cities
like fog smothering everything in sight. My
ears begged for camouflage and the chance
to go to war. Everywhere was the decay of
how we sound. Someone said it reminded
them of the time Sonny Rollins disappeared.
People spread stories of how the air would
never be the same or forgive. It was the end
of civilization and nowhere could one hear
the first notes of A Love Supreme. It was as
if John Coltrane had never been born._


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Dare said:


> Krugman, lol, he also said (in 1998): "By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's." I'm not sure if getting a Nobel is still a compliment (who am I kidding, I still want one
> 
> 
> * *
> ...


Nice poem. Agreed about (too many) women becoming masculine; cf JRR Tolkien's description of the pitiless song of the Barrow-wights, "the cold cursing the warmth for which it hungered." Also, you owe it to yourself, to go on YouTube and listen to some John Coltrane. And then (guitarist) Larry Carlton, who listened to a lot of Coltrane in his formative years.






All the best to you & yours in the coming years.
Stay safe from Coronavirus!


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

flamesabers said:


> I think there's a big difference between being girly and being feminine, just as there's a difference between being macho and being masculine. Maybe it's different in your part of the world, but where I live it's typical for businesswomen to wear make-up, jewelry and feminine attire such as a skirt and high heels. It's not like women are expected (or even encouraged) to dress and look like their male counterparts.
> 
> What's unprofessional is when grown women try to look and act like they're teenagers at high school. This isn't anything unique against women, the same rule applies with grown men trying to regress to a masculine high school stereotype.


Yet machoism is all over business world.

Better yet, Trump is president with his uber macho mentality.

_In my part of the world_ it is expected for women to keep their feminine traits and they can make it big.
I mean no one will complain about a woman who is "too feminine". People are usually just accustomed to whoever's in charge.
Granted, that's rarely a woman.


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## septic tank (Jul 21, 2013)

i smothered femininity with my massive tits

it was accidental


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## SgtPepper (Nov 22, 2016)

earth2mondo said:


> Lmao, it's masculinity that's repressed bud


the girls get more masculine, the guys more feminine. 


we're all just trying to balance things out. :laughing:


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

septic tank said:


> i smothered femininity with my massive tits
> 
> it was accidental


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