# Tired of my brother and fathers racist/homophobic/sexist bullshit...



## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

So, this past year, I have started calling out my father and/or brother when they say particularly XXXist things. I don't get angry, I don't get emotional, I just calmly point out how saying things such as X, Y and Z is problematic.

Each time I'm met with a cavalcade of idiotic statements: "you love blacks then, do you?" or being called a "not XXX" as though that's derogatory. 

I'm actually fucking tired of it, but at the same time, I'm not going to give into this kind of behavior. I'm just really, really frustrated at how I'm being put between a rock and a hard place here: I keep up like this, I'm just starting fruitless arguments, but if I give in, I have to keep putting up with hearing moronic and ignorant things. 

So, what do you guys think? Right now, my new action plan is simply to get up and leave the room when this happens; if it's something which would cause me to interject, I'm going to just remove myself from the situation altogether. 

Hopefully, my more pavlovian approach to reinforcing what is and isn't acceptable to say around me will work. It's a shame I've had to completely circumvent any approach which employs reason, but stupid begets stupid I suppose. 

If anyone has any better suggestions, feel free to share them here. I'm open to any and all ideas.


----------



## sink (May 21, 2014)

I had the same issue with my grandparents. Same racist and homophobic remarks. At first I would get into arguments with them, trying to reason with them and explain it to them logically. When that failed to work we just straight up started fighting about it. After a while if the subject came up I would just get up and leave. And now it's been years since I started doing that, you would not believe the effect it had. Not only do they now know to not throw around discriminatory remarks around me, their attitude toward the whole subject changed and they are more accepting of it.

Though I can not guarantee for this to happen in your case, I think you're on the right path to just physically leave the room if that sort of thing happens a lot. At least it will spare you the emotional distress and save a lot of time arguing over it. Close-minded people are hard to reason with.


----------



## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

You can't change people, so don't even try. I've also had the same problem with my father. (Sensing a trend, maybe?) People are taught this who then teach it to younger generations - it's a vicious circle. The only thing you can really do is not add fuel to the fire, and teach your children against thinking like this. Hopefully this kind of thinking will fade out with new generations but in the mean time, try not to get too angry over it. Ignorance clearly is bliss.


----------



## skyrimorchestra (Jul 23, 2014)

The problem with trying to reason people through stuff like this is that it's not based in reason at all. It's like arguing with the wall about why it's painted blue. You will never get a decent, logically satisfying answer out of people like this, because it's simply not academic. It's base, and it's social cues, and fitting in, and _crawly things in the night are strange don't poke them BRB building fire for my enormous cave which is mine *no one else's*_. and I find that the ones who do sound 'pseudo-scientific' (as in, people on like Reddit who claim there are _scientifically valid_ reasons for racism) were already racist to begin with and just found an 'excuse' to justify it written directly by other wingnut racists.


----------



## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

Loving this thread - I have the same problem with my mother. Ignorant, pointlessly ___ist remarks, which she always defends by saying "I can say whatever I want in my own house/car" and "It's not as thought I'd ever say it to their faces". Never mind that doesn't change a damn thing about how you're wrong, or at the very least misinformed. I've pretty much given up on trying to argue back, unless I happen to feel like being told "Oh, so you love [group] now?" or, if referring to some disadvantaged group or minority "You must want to be just like them." It's just not worth the effort. I don't have the option of walking out, unlessI want to be followed and lectured, but it seems to be working for you. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all, and reasoning with close-minded people is one of those times.


----------



## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

People rarely change in any capacity in my experiences. Maybe its time to move out.


----------



## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

How are they around non-family? Or even in front of the groups they make these remarks about?

My experience with this type is that they usually can it or go so far as to try to accommodate people they speak this way about privately. 

l don't think they should have the luxury of being perceived as decent people during those times, while simultaneously making me the person who has to deal with what l do perceive as hateful rhetoric (my own family really thinks it's light-hearted, fortunately only my dad's side is inclined toward this BS, even slightly) so at times l've disrupted that charade a bit.

You don't have to repeat exactly what they say in front of company, but perhaps relay it in some way that makes it clear that you aren't comfortable being treated as the person who is overreacting by being offended when they clearly know what they're saying is offensive enough not to be said in front of the general public.

Once they have been sufficiently _embarrassed_, is what l find changes behavior rather than letting them feel like they're doing something 'naughty' (which they really just enjoy anyway).


----------



## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Lady O.W. Bro said:


> You don't have to repeat exactly what they say in front of company, but perhaps relay it in some way that makes it clear that you *aren't comfortable being treated as the person who is overreacting by being offended* when they clearly know what they're saying is offensive enough not to be said in front of the general public.


And that bangs the nail on the head of why I'm bothered. A common tactic bullies use is to demonize the opposition for speaking out or taking offense. That is precisely what happened last night. 

I'm being bullied for simply standing up against something I feel is wrong. 

Still, thanks for all the replies everyone, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who has to deal with this shit. Not that I'm at all surprised how often people turn into racist bigots when there is no consequence for doing so :dry: I think people are absolutely right to point out that these are things which wouldn't be said to the face of the people they are about. It's cowardly when you stop and think about it. 

I did start out my tactic last night - we were watching rise of the planet of the apes and I braced myself for the imminent comparisons between the monkeys and black people. In the interests of not being "reactionary", I set myself a limit of three instances before getting up and leaving. 

Yeah, they breached it within the first half an hour of the film :/ Still, after leaving, my dad came after me and I explained to him that, while I couldn't stop him from saying those kinds of things, that didn't mean I had to hear them. And it worked - sort of. 

I'm going to modify my tactic slightly - when in a discussion where XXXist things are being flung about, I'm simply going to ask if that's the nature of the conversation we are having. If no, then they can cut that shit right out, if yes, I excuse myself calmly. 

I am no longer going to put up with hearing the same remarks over, and over, and over, and over again. Thanks again for all the replies.


----------



## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Falling Leaves said:


> And that bangs the nail on the head of why I'm bothered. A common tactic bullies use is to demonize the opposition for speaking out or taking offense. That is precisely what happened last night.
> 
> I'm being bullied for simply standing up against something I feel is wrong.
> 
> ...


Exactly, l hadn't used the word ''bullied'' but l have felt bullied by that behavior.

Odd in that they seem to want to target a single person to gauge their emotional reaction, thus making things more personal but can't seem to bond with said individual in a normal way.

l think there's an underlying codependent vibe to it, perhaps your dad and brothers feel like they don't know how to communicate with you or that you may not have much in common-still no excuse to try to harbor some false emotionalism in your interactions that way.


----------



## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Lady O.W. Bro said:


> Exactly, l hadn't used the word ''bullied'' but l have felt bullied by that behavior.
> 
> Odd in that they seem to want to target a single person to gauge their emotional reaction, thus making things more personal but can't seem to bond with said individual in a normal way.
> 
> l think there's an underlying codependent vibe to it, perhaps your dad and brothers feel like they don't know how to communicate with you or that you may not have much in common-still no excuse to try to harbor some false emotionalism in your interactions that way.


That's the single problem with the whole getting up and walking away thing - they misconstrue it as an emotional reaction, hence they sort of dismiss what I'm actually doing (i.e. setting clear boundaries as to what is and isn't acceptable to say around me). That's the whole underlying problem really: I challenge them and they dismiss me, simply because they don't want to actually consider the problems in what they are saying. It's far easier for them to portray me as this big nasty warrior of justice who is swooping in to take their fun comments away -to redefine things such as 'not racist' as inherently bad - rather than self-evaluate themselves and admit how they might be wrong.

_[...and wow, I just realized how what they are doing is so similar to anti-SJWs on teh internetz]_

What you have to understand is that my father and brother are remarkably emotionally unintelligent people. If I express annoyance at my dad indirectly, he sincerely and honestly wouldn't understand why I am upset - I literally have to spell it out for him to get it. I am an extremely unemotional person, yet I am still capable of abstracting and putting myself in someone else's shoes. Unlike me, both of them are completely incapable of doing that. 

So yeah, there is no making an emotional argument with them - I can only really come at them with cold, hard logic. Hopefully, giving _them_ the firm choice between saying racist things and having me in the conversation should nip that tendency in the bud; at the very least, it puts the responsibility for my leaving the room on them, not on me for getting up in 'reaction' to something they are saying.

Other than that though, I actually get on really well with both of them and we have no real issues.


----------



## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

ScientiaOmnemEst said:


> Loving this thread - I have the same problem with my mother. Ignorant, pointlessly ___ist remarks, which she always defends by saying "I can say whatever I want in my own house/car" and "It's not as thought I'd ever say it to their faces". Never mind that doesn't change a damn thing about how you're wrong, or at the very least misinformed. I've pretty much given up on trying to argue back, unless I happen to feel like being told "Oh, so you love [group] now?" or, if referring to some disadvantaged group or minority "You must want to be just like them." It's just not worth the effort. I don't have the option of walking out, unlessI want to be followed and lectured, but it seems to be working for you. Sometimes the best thing to say is nothing at all, and reasoning with close-minded people is one of those times.


I think the perfect response is just really deadpan sarcasm.

"Yes. You've figured me out. The reason I think *insert group* should be treated like human beings is because I'm hungry for their delicious bodies. I plan to gain their trust and infiltrate their bases by passing off as one of them, then proceed to feast on their delicious flesh."


----------



## Thepandasarecoming (Aug 25, 2014)

Just ignore it you can't change their view points as much as they can't change yours, there will always be people with different opinions than you , so your going to have to learn to tolerate it.


----------



## Hardway (Aug 14, 2014)

Falling Leaves said:


> And that bangs the nail on the head of why I'm bothered. A common tactic bullies use is to demonize the opposition for speaking out or taking offense. That is precisely what happened last night.
> 
> I'm being bullied for simply standing up against something I feel is wrong.
> 
> ...


This... is smart. Very smart. 

I approve this message.


----------



## noz (Dec 7, 2009)

Call me cold, but I am one for totally cutting out bigoted and/or very hurtful people out of one's life, even family. FallingLeaves - you're far too intelligent and enlightened to be sitting around all day trying to explain this stuff to anyone, even if it's your father. If it won't make you homeless or anything, I say write him a nice long letter explaining your views, and keep walking out on him as Karin suggests. I totally disagree you have to tolerate this thing, disown him as your father if need be, and move on.

BTW, on a more personal note, how does someone as empathetic and sensitive as yourself come from a family like yours anyway? Talk about falling far from the tree, on that one.....


----------



## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

@Falling Leaves

Have you considered completely distancing from them once you live on your own?


----------



## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

@noz @HumanBeing It just grates on my nerves, but I can live with it. It's certainly not something worth disowning two members of my family for; to be honest, I found a video of a young man being disowned by this very southern right-wing parents today. Yeah, as crappy and annoying as my family can be, they also could be far, far, far, far, far, far worse. Far worse. 

Hoo-boy. Fuck racism, fuck homophobia, and fuck sexism.


----------



## Nordom (Oct 12, 2011)

I was in the waiting room at the doctors this week, and there was this old lady - maybe late 80's and no more than 90 lbs, being assisted by her daughter to her seat. She looked like if she slipped she'd break in half. I was thinking how much it would suck to be that brittle at that age.

Then she started reading People and I saw her shaking her head and say,
''There are so many goddamned _colored_ people on tv now!''
There were like 15 people sitting around her. 
Her daughter didn't even look up as she was watching a youtube video on her iphone with the volume allll the way up, maybe on purpose. 
But I heard her whisper ''You're getting worse than dad.''
It's just so shocking to still hear that. Especially in a liberal state.


----------



## Leaf on the Wind (Dec 26, 2013)

I had a similar experience with my mom's boyfriend-with all of his causal racist and sexist (though oddly enough, not homophobic, except for lesbians for a very stupid reason) comments-I've questioned why my mom stuck with him several times. (I should also point out that I'm half Filipino and that the Filipino part came from my mom-which should make the racist comments seem that much worse. Though most of his racist comments were directed at Arabs and Hispanics). At first, I challenged him, but quickly realized he was too ignorant and set in his ways to change. My mom tried pushing him away from that, but he never seemed to budge (although the fact that she agreed wholehearted with me and said nothing to preserve some sense of civility really annoyed me). It eventually got to the point where I just ignored him-though one comment pissed me off enough that I had to leave the room. But this is a different situation: I only had to deal with him twice a week and I didn't get along with him for a whole load of other reasons. I was civil when I had to be, but didn't go out of my way.

Still, at one point, I stopped not because I was backing down, but because there was no use in yelling at a brick wall. It angered me, but there wasn't any point to fighting.



Falling Leaves said:


> I'm going to modify my tactic slightly - when in a discussion where XXXist things are being flung about, I'm simply going to ask if that's the nature of the conversation we are having. If no, then they can cut that shit right out, if yes, I excuse myself calmly.


I think you've already found the best course of action.


----------



## ForestPaix (Aug 30, 2014)

D: that doesn't sound very nice.
My half brother is VERY sexist, he thinks that girls should be in the kitchen, cooking for their man, wearing long skirts and head coverings (he's super religious) His attitude really annoys me, often I've gotten into verbal fights with him, but he's the sorta guy who WON'T LISTEN to me just because I am a girl. He's always looking down on me. It's kinda pointless to argue with someone who doesn't listen to you, so my advice is, do ignore them. Leave the room. Wait for someone outside of the family to be shocked at their attitudes, and perhaps it'll shake them up a bit.


----------



## stiletto (Oct 26, 2013)

OP, I think you're handling it all perfectly and with grace to the best of your ability.

No need to disown or combat all the time (pick and choose your battles). You don't need to argue but taking a strong and silent stand is a good way to call them out on their crap without having to give into it.


----------



## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Just ignore it. No point in causing more friction than necessary. I'm guessing some of the comments are just to get a ride out of you so you show it doesn't matter, I'm sure things will subside.


----------



## 66393 (Oct 17, 2013)

From what you described, they seem too entrenched in their frivolous and archaic beliefs to be swayed by argument. 

In the book Siddhartha, the main character, Siddhartha wants to become an ascetic and join the Samanas; this is a group who rejects the material world and spends their time meditating in the wilderness in hopes of finding enlightenment. His dad forbids he goes. Instead of arguing, Siddhartha stands stationary in one spot and won't move until his father assents, even if it kills him. The next morning the father see's that Siddhartha is still standing in the same spot and gives up, letting him go. This is a Buddhist philosophy - instead of Siddhartha attacking his father in argument, he sacrificed himself. I don't know if this will be of any help, but it was a powerful scene for me. I wanted to share it with you after seeing this thread. I hope it gives you ideas, but I'm not suggesting you take it to such extremes. Good luck, this is not something you should have to put up with. 

“Politeness… is a demanding discipline; to convince others without recourse to the tricks of the demagogue or bully requires a high level of intelligence, especially when the audience is learned and intelligent. Courtesy elevates thought to the highest level, especially when the subject is contentious.”

·_Stone’s Fall, Iain Pears.



_


----------



## Biracial (Sep 8, 2010)

Record it and put it on YouTube.


----------

