# Can SJ's be creative?



## Typologist

I have been wondering about this. None of the SJ's that I know seem to have anything of a drive for creative expression. Are there exceptions out there? Anyone of you really into painting/singing/dancing/neo-impressionistic figure skating/whatever?


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## pizzapie

I like painting...I wouldn't say I'm good at it, but I enjoy it. I have trouble coming up with ideas, so I usually pick an object and the whole things just evolves around that. I think SJs would have a good sense of knowing when artwork of any form is missing something and also know when it's done and not to overwork it.

My mother (ESFJ) loves interior design and is quite good at it too. My sister is also an ESFJ and she likes drawing, but she gets bored with it pretty quick.

I think SJs are the most creative in practical creativity...us SJs don't like mumbo-jumbo senseless stuff


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## BooksandButterflies

*My ISTJ aunt is one of the most creative people I know.*:happy:


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## niss

Yes, SJ's are creative.


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## SharkT00th

SJ's cannot be creative in any way shape or form. Rationals Cannot love another in any way shape or form. SP's cannot plan for their future is any way shape or form. Idealists cannot actually come to face rational facts in any way shape or form. This ought to sum up the truth of our reality, now go back and organize the library.


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## Nightshade

Yes, we can be creative, as an ISFJ... I am very imaginative and write stories. In fact, it's one of my passions. roud:


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## Typologist

pizzapie said:


> I like painting...I wouldn't say I'm good at it, but I enjoy it. I have trouble coming up with ideas, so I usually pick an object and the whole things just evolves around that. I think SJs would have a good sense of knowing when artwork of any form is missing something and also know when it's done and not to overwork it.
> 
> My mother (ESFJ) loves interior design and is quite good at it too. My sister is also an ESFJ and she likes drawing, but she gets bored with it pretty quick.
> 
> I think SJs are the most creative in practical creativity...us SJs don't like mumbo-jumbo senseless stuff


I'm pleasantly surprised. Is that your own work in your profile pic? I like it.


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## Typologist

niss said:


> Yes, SJ's are creative.


I'd love to believe you, but you'd be more helpful if you could provide examples.


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## Typologist

SharkT00th said:


> SJ's cannot be creative in any way shape or form. Rationals Cannot love another in any way shape or form. SP's cannot plan for their future is any way shape or form. Idealists cannot actually come to face rational facts in any way shape or form. This ought to sum up the truth of our reality, now go back and organize the library.


I think that's slightly exaggerated. And my library is already perfectly organized, thank you. By the way, I was asking SJ's..! You don't look like an SJ to me! :tongue:


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## SharkT00th

Typologist said:


> I think that's slightly exaggerated. And my library is already perfectly organized, thank you. By the way, I was asking SJ's..! You don't look like an SJ to me! :tongue:


I am if we are counting Demon Functions.


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## Typologist

Nightshade said:


> Yes, we can be creative, as an ISFJ... I am very imaginative and write stories. In fact, it's one of my passions. roud:


That's cool. :happy: Do you think your imagination has something to do with strongly developed Ne maybe?


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## Typologist

SharkT00th said:


> I am if we are counting Demon Functions.


Oh those silly INTJ's with their clever comebacks...  :tongue:


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## pizzapie

Typologist said:


> I'm pleasantly surprised. Is that your own work in your profile pic? I like it.


I wish  no, I found it as a reference photo a looooong time ago and still really liked it so I made it my picture.


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## Nightshade

Typologist said:


> That's cool. :happy: Do you think your imagination has something to do with strongly developed Ne maybe?


I believe so. I don't think it's as developed as I would like, since when I work on bigger projects I experience a lot of self-doubt and I'm very self-critical, but I get little satisfaction from smaller projects, probably because a lack of a challenge. My imagination from comes from my Ne, but my love for people, specifically their lives/histories/experiences, is my Si. The combination of the two is what motivates my creativity.


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## niss

Typologist said:


> I'd love to believe you, but you'd be more helpful if you could provide examples.


Is that really necessary? I realize that you are new here, but stop and put on your thinking cap. @SharkT00th may have been a bit over the top, but he told you the truth.


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## Pyrocide

I like to play/make music and draw.


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## KateMarie999

My ISTJ dad loves writing stories and is quite good at it. He's written a lot of stories and I've read a few of them, they're pretty good. I could see them being published. It's a passion of his. He also enjoys acting if given the opportunity (though he doesn't actively seek it out).

I also have an ESTJ friend who tells outlandish stories to anyone who will listen and loves to make up skits and perform them. I think his tertiary Ne is extremely high. I worked with him at a summer camp for years and we were a very popular skit team, almost more popular than the go-karts, which was the real victory because everyone likes go-karts. Lately, he's repressed his Ne and has become extremely exhausting to talk to (because the guy NEVER shuts up) but he's got a strong passion and respect for the arts.


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## Starlequin

I like being creative, but I have a hard time appreciating what I do. I get too hung up on whether or not it's worthwhile or quality. I recently destroyed a journal that contained my poetry from the last 10 years or so. It's difficult for me to accept or believe compliments or appreciation for what I create from other people. 

I'm trying to learn to embrace the concept of being creative because its one of the processes that can help me feel free and happy. Elevating the experience of creativity over the perceived "goodness" of what the results may be. I think this will help me be more at peace within myself.


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## Resta Um

Are SJs creative people in a broader sense? Not at all. They're not creative selves, they don't approach most things creatively, they even don't appreciate creativity and often repress it in themselves and others. 


Si is the worst perceiving function for artistry and any name-recalling will confirm that.

The thing is that Si can get pretty good at things like writing and singing and playing instruments and painting and so on, but the process is always a) see some people that are recognized as good at it b) copycat them. The best case scenario is that they try to copycat a large number of artists to create some [unintended] fusion.


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## Pyrocide

> The best case scenario is that they try to copycat a large number of artists to create some [unintended] fusion.


Perhaps so. I'll often make up pretty cool sounding pieces in my head, but usually basing it on whatever I was just listening to.

I wish I could take those songs and turn them into reality!

I think though that creativity is somewhat independent from Type; like IQ, it would correlate with N but only correlate.


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## Starlequin

Resta Um said:


> The best case scenario is that they try to copycat a large number of artists to create some [unintended] fusion.


That's interesting because I actually enjoy collage art which is basically just assembling and arranging media that's already been created. Which is more what I consider being crafty than actual artwork.


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## EmileeArsenic

ISFJ and decently creative, I guess. 

I also learned porcelain working and china painting from my grandmother, but things always sold before I got pictures of them.

I don't consider what I do 'art' or anything, but, yeah, I can create when I want to.

In the spoiler are some of my projects, works in progress at the beginning, finished pieces come later

* *












A little charm made for my phone.








Knitting project adapted from a couple other projects for different needlecrafts








work in progress on a painting








work in progress on a little figurine I'm painting








work in progress on some hair sticks I'm carving


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## Starlequin

EmileeArsenic said:


> View attachment 56327
> 
> work in progress on a little figurine I'm painting
> 
> [/SPOILER]


The dragon figurine is amazing. If I tried to paint a figurine it would be disastrous.


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## EmileeArsenic

Starlequin said:


> The dragon figurine is amazing. If I tried to paint a figurine it would be disastrous.


It's actually surprisingly fun. He was originally this matte blue, but I thought he'd be cooler in "dragonfly" colours, so I'm working on making it so, and eventually his armor will be silver with a green stone  

Glad you like it


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## Holgrave

No. If it's not in the stereotypes then no, SJs cannot be creative.


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## Resta Um

Regarding what the thread autor calls "creative expression", SJs can very much do it. I easily recall persons I met: two ESTJ that like to paint, one ESFJ that likes to paint, another ESFJ that likes to write short stories, one ISTJ that liked to act theatrically, and so on...

But Si plays safe, and all the painters I recalled are art teachers in schools [and very authoritarians and creatively inhibitive at that], and the ESFJ writer works in the scripted [not by her] mass media, and the ISTJ works in business counseling, and so on...


In a strict sense of artistic creativity where artistic creativity is saying something new or saying something that is not new in a new way, SJs are not creative. They're crafters, they mimicry art as they mimicry pretty much everything else. And they can be quite good at that.


On a complementary note, Ne and Si are probably the most polarized and polarizing functions of MBTI.


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## Resta Um

To be honest I've met some SJs that are professional musicians. They tend to have formal musical education and fashion electric guitar virtuosity.


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## EmileeArsenic

Starlequin said:


> I like being creative, but I have a hard time appreciating what I do. I get too hung up on whether or not it's worthwhile or quality. I recently destroyed a journal that contained my poetry from the last 10 years or so. It's difficult for me to accept or believe compliments or appreciation for what I create from other people.
> 
> I'm trying to learn to embrace the concept of being creative because its one of the processes that can help me feel free and happy. Elevating the experience of creativity over the perceived "goodness" of what the results may be. I think this will help me be more at peace within myself.


I did the same thing! I destroyed probably two portfolios worth of drawings, sketches and paintings when I was 17, and have never been able to really take compliments on them seriously or believe them. I always have difficulty accepting praise on my work because I see all of its flaws and all the places where it deviates from my original concept instead of the things I executed correctly.

-----

Creativity is a strange thing. A certain dancer may not be able to dance un-choreographed, but I dare anyone to look at Alessandra Ferri's portrayal of Giselle, which is intensely choreographed, every movement is practiced and regimented until I'm sure she could've danced it in her sleep, but her execution of the dance is incredibly and uniquely her, and say she wasn't creative and a true artist in her own way. 

Bouguereau used live models, children and women. His work is highly realistic, almost leaning, considering what else was going on in the world of art at the time, towards photorealism. Picot, whom he studied under, had a similar style, but simply because of their rigidness and unwillingness to just kind of say "Meh, it looks close enough, it matters more that my feelings are expressed than that it's correct," you can't look at either of their work and say they're not creative. When you look into everything that goes into the production of a piece like theirs, they're obviously genius. The techniques and manipulations of life and the world around them, to get their desired result, they're clearly creative, even though the product of their creativity looks like a manipulated copy-cat of a literal scene.

I could go on, but I'll shut up for fear of boring anyone with my blathering about technique vs raw vision and 'expression'. 

I think my point has been made, and I'll tl; dr it like this: Just because the end result looks like a copy-cat of reality, and the image doesn't look like a distorted, customised reality doesn't mean the process to achieve that work isn't creative. Because of this, who's to say who is and isn't creative? Because we all have different things that come easily to us, what might click into place for me effortlessly might be just this side of a devine revelation to the person next to me, but the same thing can be said about something they are better at than I am. Creativity is relative, and difficult to measure. Being literal is not equal to being uncreative.


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## Typologist

niss said:


> *Yes, SJ's are creative.*





SharkT00th said:


> *SJ's cannot be creative in any way shape or form.* Rationals Cannot love another in any way shape or form. SP's cannot plan for their future is any way shape or form. Idealists cannot actually come to face rational facts in any way shape or form. This ought to sum up the truth of our reality, now go back and organize the library.





niss said:


> Is that really necessary? I realize that you are new here, but stop and put on your thinking cap. @*SharkT00th may have been a bit over the top, but he told you the truth.*


Contradiction. I don't get it, but that must be because I'm just a newbie. Never mind that I've been studying type for years before joining this site. I just wanted to know what people had to say about themselves. Well, anyhow, I've seen lots of examples of SJ creativity here and I'm very thankful for that. I had this bleak image of SJ's having no artistic talent whatsoever but here I am presented with examples to the contrary, to my delight.


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## tanstaafl28

That depends upon how you define "creative." Are SJ's likely to be "artsy-fartsy" sort of creative? I would think not, as this would probably seem too messy and wasteful to them. Are they capable of creating beauty? Absolutely. 

I think what the SJ's creative style expresses their love of order, symmetry, and balance. With them, form follows function; the abstract must give way to substance. Whatever art they might choose to create would be bursting with a purposeful passion that execentuates the moment.


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## Devalight

I was good at painting and drawing when I was younger. I dropped it because after I completed my bachelor's degree in fine art I realized it was not enjoyable and was just like work. I became more and more perfectionist and I was dissatisfied with everything I did, although I made the dean's list one year with my grades. I always made As or Bs in art. 

I did not think I would ever be able to turn it to a practical use to make a living, and I was so shy at the time I could barely speak with anyone, certainly not a career counselor. I remember standing outside the door of my faculty advisors office and I could not open the door, much less go in to speak to him.

Part of me had this idea that I was able to do something really great with art. I never wanted to be a teacher. If I was going to do it, I was going to be an ARTIST. I had no idea how to do marketing or sell anything. My head was in the clouds for sure.


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## Resta Um

EmileeArsenic said:


> I did the same thing! I destroyed probably two portfolios worth of drawings, sketches and paintings when I was 17, and have never been able to really take compliments on them seriously or believe them. I always have difficulty accepting praise on my work because I see all of its flaws and all the places where it deviates from my original concept instead of the things I executed correctly.
> 
> -----
> 
> Creativity is a strange thing. A certain dancer may not be able to dance un-choreographed, but I dare anyone to look at Alessandra Ferri's portrayal of Giselle, which is intensely choreographed, every movement is practiced and regimented until I'm sure she could've danced it in her sleep, but her execution of the dance is incredibly and uniquely her, and say she wasn't creative and a true artist in her own way.
> 
> Bouguereau used live models, children and women. His work is highly realistic, almost leaning, considering what else was going on in the world of art at the time, towards photorealism. Picot, whom he studied under, had a similar style, but simply because of their rigidness and unwillingness to just kind of say "Meh, it looks close enough, it matters more that my feelings are expressed than that it's correct," you can't look at either of their work and say they're not creative. When you look into everything that goes into the production of a piece like theirs, they're obviously genius. The techniques and manipulations of life and the world around them, to get their desired result, they're clearly creative, even though the product of their creativity looks like a manipulated copy-cat of a literal scene.
> 
> I could go on, but I'll shut up for fear of boring anyone with my blathering about technique vs raw vision and 'expression'.
> 
> I think my point has been made, and I'll tl; dr it like this: Just because the end result looks like a copy-cat of reality, and the image doesn't look like a distorted, customised reality doesn't mean the process to achieve that work isn't creative. Because of this, who's to say who is and isn't creative? Because we all have different things that come easily to us, what might click into place for me effortlessly might be just this side of a devine revelation to the person next to me, but the same thing can be said about something they are better at than I am. Creativity is relative, and difficult to measure. Being literal is not equal to being uncreative.



Ok. Even if you do prove to some degree that all the names you mentioned are SJs, you're confusing concepts: saying one can't be artistically creative [again, in a strict sense] isn't the same of saying one is not capable of arstistic prowess.




Typologist said:


> Contradiction. I don't get it, but that must be because I'm just a newbie. Never mind that I've been studying type for years before joining this site. I just wanted to know what people had to say about themselves. Well, anyhow, I've seen lots of examples of SJ creativity here and I'm very thankful for that. I had this bleak image of SJ's having no artistic talent whatsoever but here I am presented with examples to the contrary, to my delight.



Isn't it funny when SJs express that common thought among them of how new in almost any sense is inherently a bad thing? That speaks volume to the overall lack of creativity in them.


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## niss

Typologist said:


> *Contradiction*. I don't get it, but that must be because I'm just a newbie. Never mind that I've been studying type for years before joining this site. I just wanted to know what people had to say about themselves. Well, anyhow, I've seen lots of examples of SJ creativity here and I'm very thankful for that. I had this bleak image of SJ's having no artistic talent whatsoever but here I am presented with examples to the contrary, to my delight.


Reading @SharkT00th's post in context, it is obviously sarcasm.


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## niss

Resta Um said:


> Isn't it funny when SJs express that common thought among them of how new in almost any sense is inherently a bad thing? That speaks volume to the overall lack of creativity in them.


Miscommunication. In the context used, "new" does not equal "bad", but relates to inexperience in dealing with some of the concepts and ideas being expressed in this thread. And, in dealing with the people participating in this thread. Which has nothing to do with being creative.


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## niss

tanstaafl28 said:


> That depends upon how you define "creative." Are SJ's likely to be "artsy-fartsy" sort of creative? I would think not, as this would probably seem too messy and wasteful to them. Are they capable of creating beauty? Absolutely.
> 
> I think what the SJ's creative style expresses their love of order, symmetry, and balance. With them, form follows function; the abstract must give way to substance. Whatever art they might choose to create would be bursting with a purposeful passion that accentuates the moment.


This is close and a good explanation. SJs can be, but are less likely to be "artsy" in the sense of creatively developing new types of art. SJs are "artsy" in the creatively developing an existing art form into a masterpiece.

(e.g. we aren't likely to invent a style of poetry, but we are likely to take the understood concept to a more intense level.)


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## Resta Um

niss said:


> Miscommunication. In the context used, "new" does not equal "bad", but relates to inexperience in dealing with some of the concepts and ideas being expressed in this thread. And, in dealing with the people participating in this thread. Which has nothing to do with being creative.



According to dictionary.reference.com:

*in·her·ent [in-heer-uh nt, -her-]*
adjective
1.existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute: _an inherent distrust of strangers_.


In the context used, "new" has an inherently negative conotation.

If anyone, you're the one having trouble grasping "concepts and ideas being expressed in this thread": the connection between aversion to new and lack of creativity is quite latent.


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## Grau the Great

SharkT00th said:


> SJ's cannot be creative in any way shape or form. Rationals Cannot love another in any way shape or form. SP's cannot plan for their future is any way shape or form. Idealists cannot actually come to face rational facts in any way shape or form. This ought to sum up the truth of our reality, now go back and organize the library.


I agree entirely. There's not an iota of creativity or independent thought within any of us. We're all just part of the system, the endless, identical cogs which keep the machine grinding onwards inexorably. We are the Borg, and we will assimilate you.

I even had to get this information from Wikipedia, due to the fact that I've never come up with a unique thought in my entire life. I give money to Jimmy Wales because he's likely an intuitive full of creative impulses, and also because his dashing face stares at me while I'm trying to research something awkward, so I just want him to go away.


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## niss

Resta Um said:


> According to dictionary.reference.com:
> 
> *in·her·ent [in-heer-uh nt, -her-]*
> adjective
> 1.existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute: _an inherent distrust of strangers_.
> 
> 
> In the context used, "new" has an inherently negative conotation.
> 
> If anyone, you're the one having trouble grasping "concepts and ideas being expressed in this thread": the connection between aversion to new and lack of creativity is quite latent.


I hate it when I have to spell out the obvious to someone.

Since I was the person using the term "new" which triggered the responses, I think I might have a fair grasp on the intended context and usage of the word as expressed in my post. What I posted was:



> Is that really necessary? I realize that you are new here, but stop and put on your thinking cap. SharkT00th may have been a bit over the top, but he told you the truth.


To which Typologist responded:



> Contradiction. I don't get it, but that must be because I'm just a newbie. Never mind that I've been studying type for years before joining this site. I just wanted to know what people had to say about themselves. Well, anyhow, I've seen lots of examples of SJ creativity here and I'm very thankful for that. I had this bleak image of SJ's having no artistic talent whatsoever but here I am presented with examples to the contrary, to my delight.


To which you responded:



> Isn't it funny when SJs express that common thought among them of how new in almost any sense is inherently a bad thing? That speaks volume to the overall lack of creativity in them.


To which I responded:



> Miscommunication. In the context used, "new" does not equal "bad", but relates to inexperience in dealing with some of the concepts and ideas being expressed in this thread. And, in dealing with the people participating in this thread. Which has nothing to do with being creative.


In the context I used the word, it means recently arrived and implies inexperience with the concepts being discussed. There is nothing implying a lack (or abundance) of creativity on the part of anyone. If the word were used in a different context, such as the rejection of anything unfamiliar, then what you've described would be relevant. But that is not the case in this particular situation.

To equate inexperience or ignorance with "bad" would be a terrible thing, since all of us are ignorant in many areas. None of my comments were intended to be denigrating to the OP (or anyone else), but were meant to encourage thinking for one's self about the question being asked.

Before attempting to make condescending personal attacks, do try to keep up. It causes the conversation to drag so, when everything has to be explained and reiterated multiple times.


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## jeffbobs

Typologist said:


> Contradiction. I don't get it, but that must be because I'm just a newbie. Never mind that I've been studying type for years before joining this site. I just wanted to know what people had to say about themselves. Well, anyhow, I've seen lots of examples of SJ creativity here and I'm very thankful for that. I had this bleak image of SJ's having no artistic talent whatsoever but here I am presented with examples to the contrary, to my delight.


You have been studying type for years. But didn't know if SJ's could be creative? 

Do you need help in knowing if INTP's can eat sweetcorn or anything?


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## Resta Um

niss said:


> Since I was the person using the term "new" which triggered the responses, I think I might have a fair grasp on the intended context and usage of the word as expressed in my post.



Oh, so you just reduced things to the intended context? The previous statements were about the whole context, not limitated to what was intended. Please, no more argumentative swindling.




niss said:


> To equate inexperience or ignorance with "bad" would be a terrible thing, since all of us are ignorant in many areas.



That "since all of us are ignorant in many areas" justification is just poor logic. In a discussion, ignorance is a bad thing, a deficiency.


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## niss

Resta Um said:


> Oh, so you just reduced things to the intended context? The previous statements were about the whole context, not limitated to what was intended. Please, no more argumentative swindling.


Really? So you are arguing that the definition used for every word in this thread must be the definition that works for every post in the thread? Why stop there? Shouldn't we broaden the scope to include the entire forum? Context, in this case, should come from the post in which the word was found. The questions are rhetorical.



> That "since all of us are ignorant in many areas" justification is just poor logic. In a discussion ignorance is a bad thing, a deficiency.


Take off your filters. There is no justification there, just a simple observation. Discussions help everyone by looking for answers un-thought of or not experienced, as yet. Which is ignorance.

Now to be willfully ignorant ... that is a very different thing.


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## Resta Um

niss said:


> Really? So you are arguing that the definition used for every word in this thread must be the definition that works for every post in the thread? Why stop there? Shouldn't we broaden the scope to include the entire forum? Context, in this case, should come from the post in which the word was found. The questions are rhetorical.


*in-tend-ed*
[in-ten-did] 
adjective
1.purposed; designed; intentional: _an intended snub.


_Narrow is the circle of your ideas, mister.




niss said:


> Take off your filters. There is no justification there, just a simple observation.



And you're back with more argumentative swindling. I suggest you search the word "justification" in the dictionary. 

What are you trying to say? That in the sentence "to equate inexperience or ignorance with "bad" would be a terrible thing, since all of us are ignorant in many areas" what comes after the comma isn't there to justify what comes before the comma but in fact is nothing but a punctuation mistake?




niss said:


> Discussions help everyone by looking for answers un-thought of or not experienced, as yet. Which is ignorance.



That's the worst definition of ignorance I've ever read.


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## scorpion

Totally. Me ex bestie is an ISFJ and she is very creative. She's an artist, and a dang good one.


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## OrdinarinessIsAFWTD

How bout this: "Can SJs be inventive?"

If not, no shame in that.


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## niss

Resta Um said:


> *in-tend-ed*
> [in-ten-did]
> adjective
> 1.purposed; designed; intentional: _an intended snub.
> 
> 
> _Narrow is the circle of your ideas, mister.
> 
> And you're back with more argumentative swindling. I suggest you search the word "justification" in the dictionary.
> 
> What are you trying to say? That in the sentence "to equate inexperience or ignorance with "bad" would be a terrible thing, since all of us are ignorant in many areas" what comes after the comma isn't there to justify what comes before the comma but in fact is nothing but a punctuation mistake?
> 
> That's the worst definition of ignorance I've ever read.


I dunno. Did you intend a snub? I certainly didn't. My ideas are plenty ok, but your idea of my ideas ... that's conjecture on your part.

Thank you. I do know the definition of justification, as well as all of the other words that you've seen fit to define in this thread.

I said it rather plainly. The portion you quoted and referenced is a simple observation in that all of us do have gaps in knowledge, which is ignorance. Surely you aren't arguing that it is false. I think that what is troubling you is what you view as a logical inconsistency. Not that it is logically inconsistent, but that it crosses your definition of ignorance. Break out that dictionary that you are so fond of quoting and look up "ignorance." Doing so will substantiate my explanation in this thread, of why equating "ignorance" with "bad" is a terrible mistake. 

After you've looked up "ignorance," perhaps you'll understand what I was meaning.


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## Typologist

Guys, guys, come on, no fighting in my thread. We've got private messages for that.



jeffbobs said:


> *You have been studying type for years. But didn't know if SJ's could be creative? *
> 
> Do you need help in knowing if INTP's can eat sweetcorn or anything?


Well, a thread like this is just part of my ''study''. And I've become a little wiser because of it. And if you can teach me something about INTP's, then I'm all ears. :wink:

By the way, there's a reason I'm asking the _*SJ's*_ a question in the _*SJ*_ forum. Let them speak for themselves.


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## Resta Um

Then suddenly you realize that you're trying to play chess with a pigeon.


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## SublimeSerendipity

@Resta Um is just trolling. You respond to him all he will do is copy/paste more definitions for us.


Now who is the creative one now???


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## Resta Um

BuckeyeENFP said:


> @_Resta Um_ is just trolling. You respond to him all he will do is copy/paste more definitions for us.
> 
> 
> Now who is the creative one now???



Are you trolling me by accusing me of trolling?


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## jeffbobs

Typologist said:


> Guys, guys, come on, no fighting in my thread. We've got private messages for that.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, a thread like this is just part of my ''study''. And I've become a little wiser because of it. And if you can teach me something about INTP's, then I'm all ears. :wink:
> 
> By the way, there's a reason I'm asking the _*SJ's*_ a question in the _*SJ*_ forum. Let them speak for themselves.


Same here i have a "study" going on at the moment. "Can INTP's have DNA?" 

By the way, i have in no way prevented anyone from expressing their opinion on this thread to do so would be stupid. All i have done is ask you a question, Which would actually be an aid to the disscussion.

I would teach you about INTP's but i don't think you would listen. You failed to answer the question, while trying to exclude me from the discussion because you didn't like what you saw.


----------



## Adversary

Not sure why you would ask this. Everyone is capable of being creative. Perhaps if you were a bit more specific? Like asking if SJ's tend to be less artsy or something along those lines.


----------



## SharkT00th

I hope everyone understands that my earlier post was sarcasm and poking fun at perceived misconceptions. 

SJ's can make some of the best creative decisions and here is why. SJ's are detail oriented and can notice if details match or not, most of all they have great memory. This means that if a project calls for a practical solution, and SJ will know what has worked in the past and is able to adjust accordingly, now I don't know what you're definition of creativity is but I'm sure that can be considered a creative solution on it's own. Warren Buffet is an SJ and he sure has some of the most unique way of investing. The secret to life of-course is not creativity, but using you're best functions to the peak of their ability. 

SJs to me, it seems, make the best investors since they actually remember details, while an INTP per say can be too theoretical and miss how the market is operating.


----------



## Typologist

SharkT00th said:


> I hope everyone understands that my earlier post was sarcasm and poking fun at perceived misconceptions.
> 
> SJ's can make some of the best creative decisions and here is why. SJ's are detail oriented and can notice if details match or not, most of all they have great memory. This means that if a project calls for a practical solution, and SJ will know what has worked in the past and is able to adjust accordingly, now I don't know what you're definition of creativity is but I'm sure that can be considered a creative solution on it's own. Warren Buffet is an SJ and he sure has some of the most unique way of investing. The secret to life of-course is not creativity, but using you're best functions to the peak of their ability.
> 
> SJs to me, it seems, make the best investors since they actually remember details, while an INTP per say can be too theoretical and miss how the market is operating.


Thank you. I mean it sincerely. You have given a reply that is genuinely informative. That's what I like to see.


----------



## nessarific

I would say that I am quite creative..
I love to paint/draw .. my favourite is typography. I've drawn tattoos for a few friends actually.
I also sing and play guitar/write my own music.. I have a few things uploaded at the moment.
I've also spent a considerate amount of time on writing.. poetry and speeches. Loved it! English and drama were my favourite classes in school.

I used to think I was an ENFJ/INFJ for the longest time, especially because of the creativity aspect.. but after educating myself thoroughly on the actual cognitive functions, I realized that I am most definitely Si dominant.


----------



## EmileeArsenic

Resta Um said:


> Ok. Even if you do prove to some degree that all the names you mentioned are SJs, you're confusing concepts: saying one can't be artistically creative [again, in a strict sense] isn't the same of saying one is not capable of arstistic prowess.


I never even insinuated that any of the people I mentioned were xSxJs. I was demonstrating that creativity isn't always easy to spot, and that even if the finished piece looks like a copycat (which has in this thread been loosely labelled uncreative) doesn't mean the person who created it isn't creative in a way that isn't obvious to the eye.


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## Resta Um

EmileeArsenic said:


> I never even insinuated that any of the people I mentioned were xSxJs.



My bad. It seemed to me that you implied that.


----------



## moondog

Typology should in no way limit any individual's ability in any action. There are many practical and refined qualities of the SJ types that would likely give them not only the initiative to complete an artistic project but the ability to see all aspects they considered for the task carried out. Having many SJ friends I envy their natural tendencies with these matters. 

By the time I finally pick up my instrument - only after spending weeks of emotional self loathing due to an inability to express a romanticized feeling - my SJ pal has likely already learned several songs on his.


----------



## hela

All of the SJs I know are creative. One of them is excellent with watercolors, another does costumery, a third is into maths. Fourth is into creative writing, fifth into interior design.


----------



## Plaxico

I've played an instrument for 5 years, drawn cartoons, and written rhymes and recordings.


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## Empty

No. SJs are made out of rocks and have no sentience. Obviously. I thought everyone knew this?


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## toffee

I have an ISTJ friend who is excellent at dance choreography.


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## Tula13

Can be creative? Sure, but we tend not to be. 

SJs can be excellent musicians because we study hard, practice a lot, understand the fundamental concepts and really work at it. But in terms of writing music and creating, that's better left to the intuitives.


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## Starlequin

toffee said:


> I have an ISTJ friend who is excellent at dance choreography.


I love dancing. When I listen to music I'm usually choreographing in my mind.


----------



## Mange

IMO creativity has little to do with type. To say that SPs are the creative ones is typist, there are plenty of them who have never picked up an artistic tool in their life.


----------



## Alaya

My mom is an SFJ and she's extremely creative. Still, she prefers the concrete and the real. She dislikes anything philosophical and prefers talking about what's practical. However, if you want someone to look at something for you from a different perspective that you haven't imagine, she's the lady to call.


----------



## Mammon

Yes. Dreams for one. If creativity is N related, dreams are full of N. Dreams are like an N party out of control.


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## Choice

You kidding me? Haven't ya'll seen Stephen the ISTJ (retired) ? He made individualized poems for people in the bans section & had plenty o' good humour.


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## Raichan

Any type can be creative.


----------



## illow

Of course they can, every type has the ability to use their right mind like dat...the extent varies.

I'm an ISTJ, and I'm a creative dancer, you should see some of my work, its ridiculously entertaining.


----------



## Iridescent

Of course they can. I know an ISFJ who's amazing at still life drawing and an ESTJ who's a really good fantasy novelist.


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## Typologist

illow said:


> Of course they can, every type has the ability to use their right mind like dat...the extent varies.
> 
> I'm an ISTJ, and I'm a creative dancer, you should see some of my work, its ridiculously entertaining.


Are you on youtube? I'd like to see. :happy:


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## illow

Im not lol....but its fun, the choreography is decoded in to meaning.....like i got a range of 180....which is divided quarterly, and then i have left n right....with a left, left being True and a right, right being True, and the rest false.....and using gestures n tap dancing u can create a statement, or receive one, then validate it........hope i explained it properly, but that's pretty much the basics.


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## outofplace

Speaking for myself as an ISTJ, arts and crafts were never my forte nor having an "eye" to decorate the home. I love music but I cannot create it. I love the performing arts but I am unable to perform or create my own style. On the other hand, I can make up children's stories off the top of my head through story-telling. But I don't think I have the patience to sit and write them down. Once I'm done with the story-telling, I forget how it goes a few hours later.


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## countrygirl90

Typologist said:


> I have been wondering about this. None of the SJ's that I know seem to have anything of a drive for creative expression. Are there exceptions out there? Anyone of you really into painting/singing/dancing/neo-impressionistic figure skating/whatever?


 I,m one of SJ's and I,m very fond of singing ,craft making ,dancing and painting too sometimes .I also like cooking which I find very enjoyable and creative activity .So don,t worry there are creative people too in SJ types.


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## fihe

I sometimes can be creative, although I am less so than I used to be before I graduated from college and life corrupted me.


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## soppixo

To me creativity can be distilled as hard work coupled with an open mind, and copious research- any type is capable of creativity just as long as there is effort and willingness put forth.

But to be fun, lets use an analogy. Lets say that the process of creativity is crossing over a fast moving river, it is deceptively shallow at parts and dangerously deep in others.

SJ's navigate slowly but surely. Every step they take is solid, rooted in the foundation and thus they're unlikely to be carried away with the flow. Think of an ox crossing the river, they'd get there eventually at their own pace and discretion. Shallow or deep, they rarely vary off course and while their speed suffers, the work they produce is inevitably polished. They do get faster with each crossing, but have a tendency of becoming lazy and turning into "one-trick ponies". But at least they make it to the finish more often than naught haha.

SP's aren't as surefooted as SJ's, they often find themselves swept away by the current of inspiration and flounder when they tread unexpectedly deep waters. They have the potential to reach the finish faster and with more to show than SJ's but that is if they manage to reach the other side in the first place. They are a lot more easily influenced and are a lot more receptive to the ebb and sway of the water instead of the headstrong (my way or no way) that SJ's tend to favor.

NJ's I would compare to frogs. They have the capability to traverse both land and water easily, take aim and make a calculated leap towards their destination. Shallow or deep, the waters do not scare them- with their strong legs they can direct themselves through the swirling vortexes of inspiration effectively reaching their destination in record time. This also mean that they find it hard to retrace their steps since their creative process tends to the reactive rather than progressive. Though what is the point of going along the same old path seriously?

NP's are the ultimate when it comes to being in the river however they also find it the hardest to make it to the finish. They're like fishes! Swimming in the sea of inspiration is the only way they can live and breath, and making it to the finish is often a race against time, to finish something without suffocating to death midway. They can do acrobatic twists and feats of physical impossibilities under the water, no depth would ever daunt them but you could wait forever for them to emerge from wherever it is the current has taken them to.

:tongue: These are my half-awake musings, feel free to mutilate it as you please.


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## Finn_the_Human

No. SJ's suck the heart and soul out of creativity. I know a ISTJ artist, he is technically brilliant, but all his paintings are the same, same browns and greens, almost photo realistic mountains and trees, and he makes pots as well, all green and brown glaze, almost factory perfect, soulless and uninspired. My ISFJ mother tried to write poems once, she actually thought she was good at it because because they rhymed. Her poems were about concrete things like a dog or the beach or a stone and stuff, there was no insight or abstraction, no emotion, they were just freaking hilarious ( says this ENFP)
The ladies who go to WI creative writing workshops do a lot of this.


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## soppixo

I think you're generalizing too much, while I would tentatively agree that the SJ's systematic thinking and habit of mastering skills to the point that they smother flexibility can affect their range of creativity, this does not mean that the SJ is completely unable to cultivate their N to the point where they can't flex it when needed.

Besides I have seen N-types, most especially NF's who basically vomit a mess of "creativity" onto a project but can't for the life of them straighten it out into something remotely presentable. Creativity doesn't just consist of inspiration, you're forgetting hard work too.


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## Finn_the_Human

But the mess of creativity is inspired, and other Intuitives understand it.... Job done.


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## soppixo

I would be tempted to agree if the world consisted of only Intuitives hahaha, but I'm sure even then there'd be some new system to divide everyone into even smaller boxes.

But either way, it doesn't change the fact that hard work and inspiration have to come together for true creativity to gain form. Just as Sensors can't replicate it just with hard work, the same goes for Intuitives- having the idea is the easy part, the hard part for them is bringing it to life.


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## stringsandlimbs19

I play guitar and bass. I write songs, write fictitious pieces, etc. . . All of which I am passionate about


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## KaiserinRose

Yes, SJs can be creative.

For example, I'm creative and have a vivid imagination. I play the piano and write fiction.


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## Jem11899

I regret to inform you, that all SJs are boring people who don't like to think for themselves and lack the ability to create. 
Just like how you're probably planning on ruling the world soon. 

I write poems. I love to draw. I like to cook. I even written a song before. Amazing, I know. I break all the stereotypes, I know. 

I am super creative when I have to lie on the spot. That counts too, right?


----------



## NineTypesOfLight

No, never. Every one of us lack skills in that department.

Yes, we can be creative, just like any other human being.


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## azdahak

Considering the last four posts were essentially identical, I'm being to think the OP may be on to something. :laughing:


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## Daniel_James_Maher

No.

Duh, of course we can.


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## alittleflower

Yes, I think we can be. Maybe not as innovative as other types, but we have a strong aesthetic sense which can come out in creative expression. I wouldn't try to live off my creative abilities, but I do like to have a creative outlet in my life. I play piano, do some crafting off and on, sing, write....
I appreciate creativity and innovation in others as well...but for me, creativity is more of a life-enrichment kind of thing rather than the impulse to create for creation's sake...know what I mean? I like to create in order to bring beauty to the world. Others may want to create to stir up, to get people to think, change.....for me it is more aesthetic. Some people may think this kind of creativity is too pedestrian, or boring...whatever...it makes people happy ^_^


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## Coffeelover

Of course but it also depends on how you define "creativity." Coming up with new recipes, landscaping, home decorating, sewing original designs, hairstyling, makeup artistry - they are all creative but may not fit the artsy-fartsy mold. But of course, some SJs are artsy-fartsy. But most SJs I know are creative, but their end creation tends to serve a useful purpose. But that's still creative.


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## kaycie51782

I have played the piano and the saxophone (sticking to classical music over jazz.) I sew, knit, bake, cook, and all sorts of other things. I don't feel the personality type has anything to do with a presence or lack of creativity. I like the things I do because there are specific rules to follow and understood consequences when I toss them aside and fly by the seat of my pants.

I'd never just start cutting fabric without first measuring (more than once) to be sure I was doing it right. I follow knitting patterns verbatim. And so on and so forth. I have been able to draft my own patterns, but it's all still following previously agreed upon conditions and understandings.


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## Black_Sphinx

Lately, I have started to gather knowledge in the area of fashion design and styling, probably, going to delve more into designing with some books soon. Until now I was rather successful in that matter, I can see what people lack in their attires or how to combine clothes.


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## Light_92

_Hmmm ...

Actually, why not? 
My mother is an ISFJ and she makes awesome paintings. In that sense, they're far better than any INxx ... especially Se inferior types. 
Sadly, her mind is sometimes a bit too "mainstream", it looks like she can't get ride of prejudges or stereotypes sometimes, and this isn't good for "creativity" as I intend it. _


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## Shale

I think I'm the most creative of most people that I know, my friends would say the same. I'm an artist: I draw with graphite, paint with acrylic and watercolor. I've had to be a leader for various children's groups, and provide crafts for them etc.


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## 63511

This post got me _incredibly_ interested _incredibly_ quickly because for some reason it just was a sort of light-bulb moment. I think we can be creative, sure, but I think we're really limited in some ways by our standards and ideals.

An example-- I absolutely love writing. I adore it and I find writing fiction and developing characters (possibly due to my love for psychology) to be therapeutic and thrilling. I love posting my work online and getting feedback, etc. I do, however, get easily frustrated by writer's block. This thread is showing me that my writer's block is really my SJ saying "well, you don't have an idea so don't write." In the same way my SJ dictates my plots. When I write fanfiction it's always some sort of romance plot I've read or seen or it's inspired by a song and so the "this _should _happen" and "this _should_ be that way" portions of my SJ are extremely prevalent. Exactly the same in my 'original' fiction pieces in which I notice a dystopian piece strangely resembles The Hunger Games with some conformity a la A Wrinkle in Time. And I notice my middle grade fantasy novel is a gender bent Harry Potter. It's like I can really create things (and do it well) when I have an idea of how it _should_ be and something to compare it to. Blast, I hate to admit it but I even would aim for word counts comparative to other works I valued as similar. I think my SJ makes my writing less creative, honestly, because I'm stuck in the whole 'should be' aspect.

It's the same with my art, if it's anime or something (which I haven't drawn in years, sadly, dunno why) I'm trying to recreate the exact artist. And I love to draw Marvel or Disney characters but that's not being particularly creative because I know the set pattern and way to do it and, again, I've got a reference for how it 'should' be. 

So I might be writing in circles since I'm still formulating this idea in my head but it makes a lot of sense to me? Feedback?


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## Tea Path

bookworm95 said:


> This post got me _incredibly_ interested _incredibly_ quickly because for some reason it just was a sort of light-bulb moment. I think we can be creative, sure, but I think we're really limited in some ways by our standards and ideals.
> 
> An example-- I absolutely love writing. I adore it and I find writing fiction and developing characters (possibly due to my love for psychology) to be therapeutic and thrilling. I love posting my work online and getting feedback, etc. I do, however, get easily frustrated by writer's block. This thread is showing me that my writer's block is really my SJ saying "well, you don't have an idea so don't write." In the same way my SJ dictates my plots. When I write fanfiction it's always some sort of romance plot I've read or seen or it's inspired by a song and so the "this _should _happen" and "this _should_ be that way" portions of my SJ are extremely prevalent. Exactly the same in my 'original' fiction pieces in which I notice a dystopian piece strangely resembles The Hunger Games with some conformity a la A Wrinkle in Time. And I notice my middle grade fantasy novel is a gender bent Harry Potter. It's like I can really create things (and do it well) when I have an idea of how it _should_ be and something to compare it to. Blast, I hate to admit it but I even would aim for word counts comparative to other works I valued as similar. I think my SJ makes my writing less creative, honestly, because I'm stuck in the whole 'should be' aspect.
> 
> It's the same with my art, if it's anime or something (which I haven't drawn in years, sadly, dunno why) I'm trying to recreate the exact artist. And I love to draw Marvel or Disney characters but that's not being particularly creative because I know the set pattern and way to do it and, again, I've got a reference for how it 'should' be.
> 
> So I might be writing in circles since I'm still formulating this idea in my head but it makes a lot of sense to me? Feedback?


have a trusted friend that can give you good feedback.or a writing group. this helped my isfj aunt with her poetry. she went on to win awards.


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## 63511

Tea Path said:


> have a trusted friend that can give you good feedback.or a writing group. this helped my isfj aunt with her poetry. she went on to win awards.


I'd be very interested! This has been a constant problem for me!!


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## Tea Path

bookworm95 said:


> I'd be very interested! This has been a constant problem for me!!


see if you can start with a local community college or university teacher to give you advice where to start. It should be fun


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## d e c a d e n t

bookworm95 said:


> So I might be writing in circles since I'm still formulating this idea in my head but it makes a lot of sense to me? Feedback?


Try some alcohol? No, I'm just kidding.

Well, I don't find that I have to recreate things when I write or draw, necessarily, but I do at times think that I'm not as creative as I should be. Ideas can be so hard.

Have you ever tried NaNoWriMo? Trying to write 50k words in a month makes me worry less about quality (or how it "should" be) and more about just thinking of random stuff to write. 99% of the things I write are crap, but I do get some more ideas out of it.

I also take a lot of inspiration from other stories, however when I get inspired by something it's often because I want to make it even better, so I change things to suit my preferences more. :tongue: When it comes to art I often take bits and pieces from art styles that I like, so I don't think my drawings look 100% like other stuff even though you can probably see some influence from Disney, for example. But then, I think it would be hard for any type to come up with something completely original, since so much has already been done. And I agree that anyone can be creative. It's part of being human.

My biggest problem is that I get discouraged easily, because nothing seems good enough.


----------



## PandaBear

Of course! I have an ESFJ friend who writes stories from time to time. Every time I read one of her stories, they would be eccentric and imaginative  (This is coming from a person who reads books...a lot.)


----------



## Love

SJs can be very creative. My dad painted his bike frame a different color every couple of days for several days, I thought he couldn't make up his mind. The last layer he coated it with was with black. After the black layer he took sand paper and started rubbing away the paint in several spots making it look like colorful tie dye spots. After he was done he finished it with a clear glossy coat, it was nice  Another SJ I know rocks the guitar very well, very musically talented and creative.


----------



## Pinion

I'm all about sensations, sentiment, and atmosphere in writing.


----------



## XZ9

The thread question asked if SJ's can be creative. The meaning of creativity is to come up with an original idea or use of imagination. Anyone has the use of immigration or use you wouldn't have pass art class or past the simplest imagination experiment which is building blocks as a child.


----------



## ScarlettHayden

Definitely. My mother is more creative than me due to her Ne..

She makes her own websites but she's forever changing the layout and imagery and everything related to it.. there's too many possibilities for her and she's constantly redoing it looking for the perfect one..

Personally I find it an annoyance that she can't stick to one design but as far as creativity goes she definitely has it.

Probably not the usual ISFJ trait.. she's developing her inferior function though right now at almost fifty years of age.


----------



## General Lee Awesome

absolutely they can be creative. artistic? idk lol. i cant draw to save my life xD


----------



## The_Wanderer

Hey, it's a hidden agenda for ESxJ's to appear creative and/or unique.


----------



## Aert

Sure sure. Remember warren buffet? He created lots of moneys


----------



## Dangerose

I think I'm pretty creative. I don't know if I'm good at being creative, but I do...create.
I have a few books on Kindle and I'm working on a new project (which I'm thinking will probably be good enough to get 'really' published (knock on wood)...) I also write fan fiction (just for myself, just for fun)
I play several musical instruments and I write songs as a hobby.
And I make terrible attempts at painting. 
My mother's an ISFJ and she doesn't give off a very creative vibe but she does lovely watercolour paintings. And I think my dad's an ESFJ, he's very talented at humour writing (but he doesn't do it much)
Maybe it's a topic for a whole new thread, but the actual creative process of SJ's might be interesting)


----------



## Cathrine

Drew my bosses as superheroes because just taking a picture was too boring


----------



## witchy_fingers

I think everyone enjoys being creative in one form or another. It might be more difficult for some people to find an outlet where they feel they have potential. I would love to design short films, but I don't have a lot of ideas for them. In my opinion, "artistic" is not the same as "creative". I love learning choreography and music pieces on the keyboard, but I would never dream of having the ability to come up with my own. Maybe this is related to a lack of experience or the fact that these activities are more like hobbies than means of self-expression. On the other hand, I always thought that I could be a good Dungeon Master for Dungeons & Dragons. I need guidelines for my creativity. Things like interior design and decorating appeal to me.


----------



## OhDarling

I took a drawing class once and I was just sooo bad at it. I'd say that I'm far from a creative persorn. In fact, I don't think ESTJ are a very creative type.


----------



## Simpson17866

According to CelebrityTypes:

ISTJ: Natalie Portman
ESTJ: Tom Clancy
ISFJ: Marcus Aurelius
ESFJ: Elton John


----------



## Adena

I'm very creative, yet a Si dom


----------



## Zee Bee

Great_Thinker said:


> The thread question asked if SJ's can be creative. The meaning of creativity is to come up with an original idea or use of imagination. Anyone has the use of immigration or use you wouldn't have pass art class or past the simplest imagination experiment which is building blocks as a child.


If creative means doing nice capable things with wood or metal, okey

If it means theorizing creatively; it depends
1) If they are ridgid, so they stubbornly reject new ideas, no
2) If they distrust their weak iNtuition, so even their own creative ideas are rejected, so No.


----------



## JTHearts

Zee Bee said:


> If creative means doing nice capable things with wood or metal, okey
> 
> If it means theorizing creatively; it depends
> 1) If they are ridgid, so they stubbornly reject new ideas, no
> 2) If they distrust their weak iNtuition, so even their own creative ideas are rejected, so No.


I disagree.


----------



## Zee Bee

john.thomas said:


> I disagree.


Since you did not state any reasoning
I also have the right of disagreeing with your disagreement without any reason sir.


----------



## Word Dispenser

Of course. Most writers are SJs. And that includes fantasy. They have the stick-to-it-iveness that gets ideas and creative shite done. Same with art, music, etc. If they have an interest in it, they generally master it.


----------



## Zee Bee

noz said:


> SJs can be very creative, look at Bill Cosby.


True, but "The Cos" is a creative ENTP
Try to keep better company, or at least keep the women of your family away from him


----------



## 68097

Word Dispenser said:


> Of course. Most writers are SJs. And that includes fantasy. They have the stick-to-it-iveness that gets ideas and creative shite done. Same with art, music, etc. If they have an interest in it, they generally master it.


This is me. I've written at least one book a year for over a decade (usually more like two or three -- recently, a lot of fantasy). I work as a magazine editor / layout designer. My hobbies include hoop dancing, making music videos, writing fan fiction, doing a bi-monthly art, literature, and entertainment magazine, blogging, Cosplaying, and interior design. 

So ... yes, Si-doms can be creative.


----------



## Word Dispenser

angelcat said:


> This is me. I've written at least one book a year for over a decade (usually more like two or three -- recently, a lot of fantasy). I work as a magazine editor / layout designer. My hobbies include hoop dancing, making music videos, writing fan fiction, doing a bi-monthly art, literature, and entertainment magazine, blogging, Cosplaying, and interior design.
> 
> So ... yes, Si-doms can be creative.


You're awesome, lady.

Also, your name is like.. Two awesome things put together to make holistic awesomeness. :kitteh:

Also, congratulations on your success at being awesome. And I hope somehow it transfers into me, who is kind of... Underachieving, at the moment. :laughing:


----------



## pastabomber

ISFJ here who really likes drawing and doodles in class a lot.


----------



## MsJoyceLee

From my experience of being me, I'm not creative AT ALL.


----------



## Word Dispenser

MsJoyceLee said:


> From my experience of being me, I'm not creative AT ALL.


And that's okay. 

Although, I'm sure you don't give yourself enough credit. I'm sure you create in some way-- Have some ideas.

But, ultimately, we're all different. 

There will be some creative ESTJs with that interest and inclination, and other more practical, applicable ESTJs with _that _interest and inclination. :wink:


----------



## Runemarks

Of course they can be. Anyone can!
I have a close *STJ friend who loves any kind of art and loves to discuss about it. Practically speaking, she's not an artist herself, though. But she's a deep, intelligent person who uses her countless ideas to organize things and make them work better.
I also had a brilliant *STJ classmate who could solve any problem in the most efficient way through original solutions.
My *SFJ father is good at playing guitar and he's also composed a few songs. He's also tried to write a few things. He's a great storyteller, even though he's better at it when he's speaking - he uses interesting details to build vivid images.
My ESFJ close friend has tried writing one or two stories too, but she doesn't enjoy it that much. However she expresses her creativity through romance.
My mother's got a 105 years old ESTJ aunt who invents unbelievable lies about practically everything. I guess you need a lot of creativity in order to do that... XD The best thing is, she could make anyone believe the most unlikely things.


----------



## Sangmu

ISFJs are pretty creative. My mom is one.

She's a good fiction writer and a natural artist. 

She never pursued either due to lacking confidence.


----------



## 68097

Runemarks said:


> My mother's got a 105 years old ESTJ aunt who invents unbelievable lies about practically everything. I guess you need a lot of creativity in order to do that... XD The best thing is, she could make anyone believe the most unlikely things.


This cracked me up. You have no idea.


----------



## Runemarks

angelcat said:


> This cracked me up. You have no idea.


It usually goes like this.
_Me: *Steps in* ...did you break that glass?
Her: Who? What?
Me: There's a broken glass on the floor. Did it slip out of your hands?
Her: *Looks at the glass* No.
Me: I'm not gonna get mad, don't worry.
Her: Are you insane? I did nothing. It was the dog.
Me: Mom's taken her out for a walk.
Her: No.
Me: Yes.
Her: That dog is a demon. It always causes trouble. Yesterday it stole your brother's money.
Me: What the... my brother has no money *laughs*.
Her: No! It stole his money while he was doing his homework. I swear. I saw it with my eyes.
Me: Also, my brother never does his homework.
Her: Your dog stole his money.
Me: Why? How? Did she want to buy a meat cake?
Her: Yes! Exactly.
Me: ...
Her: I told you, it's your dog's fault.
Me: It's-
Her: Your. Dog's. Fault.
Me: I-
Her: I swear.
Me: Whatever. Okay.
_


----------



## 68097

My dad knew a guy like that once -- he could CATCH him doing something, and he'd still lie about it. The thought just ... boggles my mind. I'd never have the nerve to lie about everything. HAH.


----------



## General Lee Awesome

My ISTJ friend is very creative with his lego sets.


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## shameless

My ISTJ mom was into dancing. She is pretty good at dancing and rhythm. 

She also smoked pot most of my life. 

They are not all bureaucrats or something. 

She has all the function use and happens to still fit much of the plan and accounting stereotype. 

But she was able to be relaxed and dance (it just had to be in an arranged time slot for fun lol). But she still is so weird. Like with animals or rides if she plans a day at the fair you have to stay the entire gate open to shut day so you get your moneys worth and then a year of seriousness turns into a 12 year old girl (its weird). She's almost more eccentric then the rest of us in the family who routinely self express. 

So yes I know they do let loose and can be creative or out of a bureaucrat stereotype in some aspects. 

Its a bit funny how perfect everything has to be for whatever fun thing is taking place but I find this quirky detail about her rather endearing in some regard. Lol she still will call me like once a year and force me to watch a who done it with her, and go off a check list of perfect lighting, sound, and popcorn, etc, the movie does not start til you have gone potty even if your 30. 

Dont joke with the woman tho. You can joke about outside things but don't ever poke at her.

My ENXP stepdad likes to poke fun at her, but lets be honest she is the glue. So as much as she is an easy target for exhibiting someone that could lighten up, she also is some major glue. And I guess I like that my mom is a rock. I respect that.


----------



## 68097

I've probably mentioned this before -- but an ISTJ I know designed the Godiva Chocolate Room for Oprah. So yeah, not creative at all. She loved doing it too, selecting chocolates to represent different designs on the floors and ceiling, furniture, etc. She actually works for a design company in Hollywood that half the time winds up designing the interiors for the Oscars / Golden Globes. Very, very good at what she does. Hard worker. Creative. Excellent with deadlines.


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## aendern

I find this SJ creative






She makes healthy use of Ne in this video. I think it contributes greatly to her success.

I'm not sure about an Ne inferior, though. I'll keep my eyes peeled.



Word Dispenser said:


> Of course. Most writers are SJs. And that includes fantasy. They have the stick-to-it-iveness that gets ideas and creative shite done. Same with art, music, etc. *If they have an interest in it, they generally master it.*


I've noticed this as well.

Whenever I think of Si vs Se, I can't help but think of _The Tortoise and the Hare_. It's like impossible for me to ignore.

The Hare, Mr. Se, grasps things really quickly but also burns out and gets bored really quickly.. moving on to something else. Never making great progress in anything.

The Tortoise grasps on much more slowly but stays with it and eventually goes way beyond what the Hare could have ever hoped to do. And beats the Hare's ass.

It's a pretty typist book. Se is painted as the villain and Si as the underdog that we're supposed to root for.


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## Word Dispenser

emberfly said:


> I find this SJ creative
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She makes healthy use of Ne in this video. I think it contributes greatly to her success.
> 
> I'm not sure about an Ne inferior, though. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
> 
> 
> 
> I've noticed this as well.
> 
> Whenever I think of Si vs Se, I can't help but think of _The Tortoise and the Hare_. It's like impossible for me to ignore.
> 
> The Hare, Mr. Se, grasps things really quickly but also burns out and gets bored really quickly.. moving on to something else. Never making great progress in anything.
> 
> The Tortoise grasps on much more slowly but stays with it and eventually goes way beyond what the Hare could have ever hoped to do. And beats the Hare's ass.
> 
> It's a pretty typist book. Se is painted as the villain and Si as the underdog that we're supposed to root for.


Well, I wouldn't say it's typist, since it's describing character traits.

The hare is rushing, and not thinking. The hare is making fun of the tortoise quite a lot in the beginning, laughing at him because, in order to win a race, you've got to be fast, and the hare is quite obviously fast, while the tortoise is not.

Then, when it comes time for the race, the hare actually ends up being lazy and going off to do something else, maybe even forgetting about the race, while the tortoise continues plodding slowly towards the finish line.

Basically, I think the moral of the story is to not to be boastful, and that as long as you're moving forward, you're making progress. It doesn't matter what speed it takes you, because everyone has an individual preference for speed.

It obviously doesn't always work like that in the real world, but it's a solid lesson about discipline for kids.


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## aendern

Word Dispenser said:


> Well, I wouldn't say it's typist, since it's describing character traits.
> 
> The hare is rushing, and not thinking. The hare is making fun of the tortoise quite a lot in the beginning, laughing at him because, in order to win a race, you've got to be fast, and the hare is quite obviously fast, while the tortoise is not.
> 
> Then, when it comes time for the race, the hare actually ends up being lazy and going off to do something else, maybe even forgetting about the race, while the tortoise continues plodding slowly towards the finish line.
> 
> Basically, I think the moral of the story is to keep your eyes on the finish line, not to be boastful, and that as long as you're moving forward, you're making progress.


You're right the hare is totally an ESTP.


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## Word Dispenser

emberfly said:


> You're right the hare is totally an ESTP.


Lol, I think you missed the point. :laughing:


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## aendern

Word Dispenser said:


> Lol, I think you missed the point. :laughing:


I can't tell if the joke went over your head of if you got it 

ps good job on derailing this thread


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## Word Dispenser

emberfly said:


> I can't tell if the joke went over your head of if you got it
> 
> ps good job on derailing this thread


Of course I got it.

P.S: That's just what I do. :kitteh:


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## aendern

Cinnamon83 said:


> My ISTJ mom was into dancing. She is pretty good at dancing and rhythm.
> 
> She also smoked pot most of my life.
> 
> They are not all bureaucrats or something.


Wow she really isn't typical! Usually you see strong Si preferrers being teetotallers with all kinds of substances.



> Dont joke with the woman tho. You can joke about outside things but don't ever poke at her.


She takes jokes and light sarcasm seriously? Or what did you mean here?


----------



## shameless

emberfly said:


> Wow she really isn't typical! Usually you see strong Si preferrers being teetotallers with all kinds of substances.
> 
> 
> She takes jokes and light sarcasm seriously? Or what did you mean here?


I know its seems really weird. But I know she's ISTJ with her functions use. I totally think the weed use thing was more about environmental factors then her. The way she grew up it was not a huge deal. She quit smoking weed like 5 years ago and now its more apparent then ever that she is ISTJ. I bet when I was a kid people would have thought from the outside looking in she was ISTP because thats how she wanted to be perceived in some ways. But I know the woman is ISTJ based on all her pros & cons. Despite being a stoner she was never that typical stoner persona. You could barely ever tell she was stoned (well probably tolerance) but I think also because she was so OCD. I wish I could explain her better, because I am sure it sounds like I am typing her wrong but I bet my ENTP step dad would type her as the same (in fact I might ask him, what he would type her, lol). I think the only reason she does not resemble say Queen Elizabeth outward at first is because she grew up in the ghetto and environmental factors played a huge role in her appearance. Honestly if I told her to take the test I think she would test herself as INTJ. I was stumped between the two, but ISTJ wins after I looked closer at the functions. 

She herself is very sarcastic about general stuff. She likes to dish but she does not like to receive personal jokes. She is fine with jokes in general. To be fair to her what she usually gets pissed about is all the rest of us Fe users poking fun at her subjective values/rules/systems (so I mean I kinda get it when considering that) I lay off her but the rest of the Fe family does not. But her jokes to us are equally below the belt to be fair, as far as Fe/Fi trespassing.


----------



## Mair

My father is an ISTJ and he writes songs in his free time. He doesn't show them to anyone but I have found them. 
ISTJs can really be sensitive souls deep down :tongue:


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## aendern

Cinnamon83 said:


> I know its seems really weird. But I know she's ISTJ with her functions use. I totally think the weed use thing was more about environmental factors then her. The way she grew up it was not a huge deal. She quit smoking weed like 5 years ago and now its more apparent then ever that she is ISTJ. I bet when I was a kid people would have thought from the outside looking in she was ISTP because thats how she wanted to be perceived in some ways. But I know the woman is ISTJ based on all her pros & cons. Despite being a stoner she was never that typical stoner persona. You could barely ever tell she was stoned (well probably tolerance) but I think also because she was so OCD. *I wish I could explain her better, because I am sure it sounds like I am typing her wrong*


No, I was merely making an observation.


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## ESFPlover

For sure SJ's can be creative. I'm pretty creative, I love painting, I have done 10 canvas, I make a lot of jewelry, love to be inspired. I also do flower arrangements every now and them for a design company. What makes you think SJ's are not creative? What do you think the most creative personality type would be?


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## northernlady

Creativity is so much more that what can be performed or displayed in a gallery. There is creative problem solving in business all the time a lot of which is done by the SJ accountant, business types. I have to creativity everyday to figure out how individuals commit fraud and hide assets. I also dance, play piano, garden all which display abundant creativity. And no I am not imitating or copying anyone when I am doing that either!


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## Coburn

northernlady said:


> Creativity is so much more that what can be performed or displayed in a gallery. There is creative problem solving in business all the time a lot of which is done by the SJ accountant, business types. I have to creativity everyday to figure out how individuals commit fraud and hide assets. I also dance, play piano, garden all which display abundant creativity. And no I am not imitating or copying anyone when I am doing that either!


Are you an accountant who focuses on fraud investigation?


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## Luna Lovegood

What? WHAT? Dom/aux Si for some is absolutely_ incredible_ and not at all the ingenuity-stifling function for metaphorical robots it is commonly perceived to be!


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## ENTPreneur

Derailed... I think it all boils down to the initial statements in this thread as to WHAT you mean by "creativity". I think we all can agree to that creativity (as in thinking INNOVATIVE new thoughts or concepts) is influenced by Ne or Ni... And the inspiration can come from Se or or other perceiving function.... Or later via Fi/Si etc.

Since ALL types have Ne and Ni but in different amount, ALL types can come up with INNOVATIVE thought. The likelihood that it happens probably vary, though. 

If we instead talk about aesthetics , that is another matter. There I think some SJs actually can have the upper hand (considering also the fact that their types and thus general consensus of "design" are most common). NTs for instance, normally are rationality- and efficiency-chasers... Some may choose to not care too much about the aesthetic side of things... And perhaps if they do it is more clean, scandinavian/utilitarian in nature...

I think a lot of NTs would prefer to do the Jobs/Einstein thing and just have several identical wardrobes in our closets...


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## niss

emberfly said:


> Wow she really isn't typical! Usually you see strong Si preferrers being teetotallers with all kinds of substances.
> 
> 
> She takes jokes and light sarcasm seriously? Or what did you mean here?


Damn. Just damn.


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## AddictiveMuse

No. No they are not. If you have SJ in your totally not ambiguous type code, you can never, ever, ever possibly be creative.
Put down your paint brushes SJs there's someone in the world you need to control and complain to about your hatred of change.

Hopefully you are aware that I am kidding

Just because they are an SJ does not mean they cannot be creative or create something. Same goes for every type stereotype type.


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## Cesspool

People in general are not creative, regardless of type. True creativity is a gift that can only come through both natural inclination and thousands of hours of polishing, regardless of temperament. 

Painting pretty pictures, writing a decent story, or playing an instrument is not enough to be given the title of "creative". Creativity implies true innovation, not just self expression.

So. yes, SJ's can be creative, but like any other type, it's very very rare.


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## Sophi

It's funny actually, most of the SJ's I know are creative. My two ESFJ friends both loved drawing. One prefers comic book style drawing, while the other prefers realistic. I myself like photography, drawing, crocheting, and writing-although I don't get as much satisfaction from it as an ISFP (I knew an ISFP once, and she could literally do art for hours. I would get bored and want to do something else.) 

My mom is an ESFJ, she played piano as a young adult, and took some art classes. Now she mostly expresses herself with dishes. I have never seen someone so obsessed with pretty dishes. My best friend, her mom is also an ESFJ, and she loves making cards. She takes classes on it though. She prefers following a pattern, so I don't know if you would consider that "artsy." My ISTJ dad paints on a daily basis, but he's much more into realistic stuff. My Grandmother is probably an IST/FJ, and she loves sewing. She makes quilts, and when I was younger she would make me dresses. My Papaw used to paint and carve before he went blind. My older brother used to draw, though he doesn't anymore. So yeah, I know a lot of SJ's that are into various forms of art. 

Is it imitation? Well truthfully, I believe all art is an imitation of something. Even the most abstract art is derived from somewhere. To me, art is taking something in the real world, and showing it in a way others might not. For instance, taking a picture at an angle that others haven't seen before. Also, there is a quote (not sure from who) that says until you've drawn something,you've never actually seen it. When you draw a familiar object-a flower, a tree, etc. you suddenly discover its uniqueness. 

They say that there are no sharp angles in nature, but I've seen some trees with branches that twist at 90 degree angles, who seem determined to tangle their branches in an attempt to reach the sun. I found a mutated flower the other day with three flowers shooting out of one stem. Even grass can be interesting if you look closely enough, did you know spiders always go in one direction? As they weave they create one section, then they walk all the way round the web, check the section they just worked on, and create a new section. They never change direction but keep going around and around as they add on new sections. 

So yeah, my point is, SJs can be creative, just like any other type. Because when you actually start examining nature, you will see that even recreating something you already see has its own art form.


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## Can Wang

Of course！
Although I'm not creative，my friend is creative.She is good at painting and writing.She is an ISFJ.


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## Finny

I've always struggled with being creative and coming up with things on my own. Although, when given a general idea I can easily add onto as well as think of new possibilities for such idea.


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## noles1995

I used to be very creative. My father went to school for graphic design. I used to draw, paint, make pottery, do film photography etc. I still am somewhat creative (I still make cards for birthdays/holidays, decorating rooms, etc.) I feel like it's the perfectionist as well as the need for structure in me that suppresses the creative side. I have trouble with being creative because I feel like my work will be dumb or not good enough.


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## Satan Claus

I know an SJ that's an amazing painter! Anyone can be anything, your type doesn't really limit you. Some ESFJ's have a potent Ne and it shows in their fashion.


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## smilephantomhive

I use weird comparisons to come up with interesting ideas. Like one thing will remind me of another thing, and I will turn it into a story. Idk that sounds like Si creativity to me.


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## 68097

smilephantomhive said:


> I use weird comparisons to come up with interesting ideas. Like one thing will remind me of another thing, and I will turn it into a story. Idk that sounds like Si creativity to me.


With Ne. You have both and they work as a team.


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## smilephantomhive

angelcat said:


> With Ne. You have both and they work as a team.


Yes, a lot of people seem to forget that functions don't work alone.


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## PJay

I don't think I'm creative. Not a bit. I LOVE Music and I like to sing and play the guitar and I'd love to improve on those and learn new instruments; but I play and sing what's already written. I couldn't write a song or create a melody.

I love Art in general. I like drawing and painting but I don't have those urges to draw, for instance. I rarely doodle on the corners of the pages in class. Thou, I gotta say, not being able to pass what's in my head to the paper it's quite discouraging (I know that's fixed with practice but... asgdvajsv >.<). However, I do have a few drawings and doodles and I've posted at least half of them on my fb page. This is my last doodle. Also, because of a girl I met, I have a few recordings of myself singing in my phone. XD

But this is me. I do think you can find creative people in any personality type.


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## moonlightwave

ISTJ here. Been writing poetry for a couple months on instagram as a stress reliever. Nothing great but I will say, when I do put my mind to it (and with the help of a thesaurus), I can describe feelings quite well/creatively . Never tried until recently.

I'm good at drawing too but never pursued that route. Only still life's and photos/portraits and I would need a decent amount of time. I can't draw from my imagination, at all.


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## SystemEater

Typologist said:


> I have been wondering about this. None of the SJ's that I know seem to have anything of a drive for creative expression. Are there exceptions out there? Anyone of you really into painting/singing/dancing/neo-impressionistic figure skating/whatever?


Can smug idiots with terrible questions be shot in the face? Well, guess not now that I think of it.


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## terenaukas

Of course they can be creative - those machine gun bunkers lining the D day landing beaches were probably SJ creations.


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## frogs

Of course, every type can be creative. Are N's more likely to be the typically "creative" type? Definitely. But remember that each letter is a preference. Not a special code that puts everyone who has a certain type/temperament in one box.


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## Kitty23

Yes. I like painting, drawing, photography, I'm good with music, creative writing is a huge passion/talent of mine. I am currently working on an alien science fiction novel. I even graduated from an art high school.


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## sudo

The SJs I personally know are just uncomfortable with the unknown, can't think outside of the box, and rank low in openness to experience. They tend to gravitate toward convention and the familiar.

That said, they can be actors, musicians, artists, and painters just like the NFs and SPs. Any "type" can be creative or artistic.


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## Candy Apple

I used to love art till I got to high school and art projects always had a time limit on them so I pretty much stopped art related things besides making gifts for people. Anyway I think SJs are creative in their own way, even if in implementing rules and regulations. Knowing how to do it so that people will actually follow when a lot of people hate rules? That's has to count for something. Even being a teacher for some kind of institution takes a lot of creativity. I think a lot of things become "creative" when a lot of people have to be involved in some way - even if just to get along.


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## peter pettishrooms

Yes, I've met a lot of engineers, a good number of them being ISTJ's. They often have hobbies in the arts and play an instrument.


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## iAmAGod

no


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## RedGanon

Of course we can be creative, I like making landscape pictures with pastel crayons and to draw portraits of people with pencils. 
Also drawing pics of animals and anime characters (but I can't do that so well without a picture as reference).

When working with pastel crayons I use my intuition to guide my hands and let my emotions flow into the picture. It's strange that I often make the same picture (a sunset over the ocean) over and over again using different colours (like an red ocean for example).


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## CrispNightAndTwilight

I enjoy being creative. I flourished in poetry and occasionally enjoyed literary symbolism during my high school English classes. I still look forward to some aspects of my English class this semester in college. That being said, it is true that I do prefer things that are more conventional and familiar in my life. That doesn't mean I can't have some sort of balance between these two domains though!


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## versace

pizzapie said:


> I like painting...I wouldn't say I'm good at it, but I enjoy it. I have trouble coming up with ideas, so I usually pick an object and the whole things just evolves around that. I think SJs would have a good sense of knowing when artwork of any form is missing something and also know when it's done and not to overwork it.
> 
> My mother (ESFJ) loves interior design and is quite good at it too. My sister is also an ESFJ and she likes drawing, but she gets bored with it pretty quick.
> 
> I think SJs are the most creative in practical creativity...us SJs don't like mumbo-jumbo senseless stuff


I would imagine SJ's are typically skilled at art since they pick up on the smallest details. Us intuitives just paint whatever we imagine usually so it can sometimes end up looking like a bunch of nonsense :laughing:


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## Ms ISTJ

I found a book that I was given when I was younger. It had a lot of blanks for you to fill in, and there were blanks for "How would you describe yourself to someone new?". *The very first adjective with which I described myself was "creative."* Even back then, I loved creative writing! Furthermore, thanks to my mother--also an ISTJ--my sisters (ISTJ and ESFJ) and I got lots of experience in the arts. We've done theatre, dance, piano...Both my sisters play guitar, one (the ISFJ) paints...We've been described as "Renaissance women" for all of our different artistic pursuits.

It makes me sad now to think that people think ISTJs and creativity are mutually exclusive...even though I can understand what prompted this. _Stereotypes, cough cough._ 

But seriously, I think a lot of it might come down to how developed an ISTJ's inferior function is. 

Even though Si is _definitely_ by dominant function--I eat, sleep, and breathe Si--and I show every symptom of inferior-Ne, I've always been in touch with my Ne, even from a very young age. Before I could pick up a pencil, I would make up stories. When I was about two/three, I could entertain myself for hours by making up stories with my nanny (an ESFJ). No toys needed, just imagination!

Would I still describe myself as creative? Yes! Would I say I have a "creative personality"? NOPE! In high school, I went to a (very intense) creative writing summer camp, and I definitely felt that I was "different" from a lot of the personalities there. But I still loved the ability to do nothing but create and write and make up stories all week--and collaborate with other creative minds.


----------



## capgunMatt

As an ISTJ and a musician (15 years in the career) I think so, but...

I'm a drummer, and enjoy execution of music through my drums. As for creativity, I push myself to explore this side (and at times have been very productive in this way). I have even written songs, and sang them live, have them recorded on albums etc. I'm no singer-songwriter (think Bob Dylan, or Ed Sheeran), but when I do get inspired to put something down it is usually very much a case of exploring how ideas fit into systems. For example I listen to lots of music and analyse it for what it is doing, once I see something and find a pattern that works, I try it. I can then come up with new ideas within that framework. I am not one to try to explore really out there ideas for the sake of it, and I generally don't have time for art or people that talk nonsense like I play what I feel... "I'm channelling the colour purple".... That's fine I guess, but it isn't me and anyone that does that I will still hold accountable to the results.

As a ISTJ drummer, I've always sucked at soloing... being creative in the moment on the spot. I actually think drum solos are mostly stupid. I prefer groove based music not avantgarde explorations for the sake of trying to find something possible. As far as I see it, what attracts me to music is already out there, and I am just trying to identify it clearly and execute it with precision.

I am creative, but really I am actually just really driven to understand things and put them together into a frame work that I can comprehend. For example, I wrote a drum book, because I felt the need to categorise and 'systamatise' drumming exercises in a comprehensive and systematic way. I practise drums in a routine way, and feel like I am wasting time if I don't achieve a clear goal in a practise session. 

I like to write essays/fiction (and this goes for writing lyrics too) but when I do it is usually the execution of some technique or style that I have observed put into practise. For example, even though it might seem that I am engaged in a creative type of work, usually at the base of it is the application of a detailed rule that has been sensed/observed from other works and then applied to good use.


----------



## INFJenNiFer

Of course they can be! My ESTJ father is an arranger. He wouldn't be one if he's not creative :wink:


----------



## Carpe Vinum

Absolutely. My wife is an ESFJ, and she's very artistic. She paints and decorates our home beautifully. I express my creativity in other ways. I enjoy cooking/grilling and tend to be playful with my dishes. I love music, and I'm self-taught on the guitar. I'm also a teacher and try to be creative with my lessons.


----------



## Librarylady

Hey, I know this thread is two months old, but I wanted to reply anyway.

Definitely, though depends on what you mean by creative. I'm an ISTJ writer that gets really obsessed/in-depth with her own character creation. At the same time though, I've mostly developed characters based on my own experiences with things or studying the facts of how X thing is supposed to work. This is more typical for a sensing type. So we can be into artsy subjects while still maintaining our personality.


----------



## mcnn4

I'm an ESFJ and I am very good at drawing and a pretty good writer as well!

But I notice that a lot of the things I write and draw are of things that I've already seen. So maybe I'm good at the execution but when it comes to actually drawing how I'm feeling, it is a little challenging. 

I am very into poetry reading and writing though.


----------



## aus2020

Refer to the poems in my blog.


----------



## Siriusly McGonagall

depends who you ask some think I am great at it some think I am okay. I think the SJs likes my work the most.

Yes, I write fanfictions and stories. I realized the novel wasn't my thing but I am pretty good at short stories and Prose. I use to run a writing critique group. It was meant for original short pieces. I suppose you could have submitted a novel I think one lady actually did. There may have been more now I think of it. I have been part of fanfiction.net for years. I have also been part of it's sister site fictionpress.com for years as well.


----------



## Taileile

Of course they can.


----------



## Siriusly McGonagall

here's some more thoughts I was going to say more but didn't? This occurred to me just now, but I think me as a ESTJ want to be creative but isn't as some people, but as said above I do write and such. The SFJs I know seem a bit more artistic then the STJs I know but it doesn't mean that STJs don't want to be or have no drive for it.

My father ESFJ is known to draw great pictures and do a stunning job on paint. He is good at some aspects of design.


----------



## shazam

yeah, here's a pen, draw somethin9.


----------



## Lunescope

I think anyone can be creative in their own way, and I personally love creating artwork, pieces of writing, listening to music and trying to make my own, things that have always resonated with me. Most of all my joy comes from those things actually, as it helps me express myself instead of hiding everything away.


----------

