# MBTI Duality?



## Slimblue (Jan 22, 2013)

Duality: yin and yang, "bringing the best out of each other" 
Can the Socionics Theory of Duality be supported with MBTI despite the obvious function preferences between partners?
Matches made in heaven or recipes for disaster?



ENTJ-ISFP
ENTP-ISFJ
ESTJ-INFP
ESTP-INFJ
ENFJ-ISTP
ENFP-ISTJ
ESFJ-INTP
ESFP-INTJ


1.) If these types can coexist, what are some possible barriers that must be overcome?

2.) What are the potential pitfalls of being in such a relationship?


----------



## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

I don't understand why extroverts and introverts are supposed be soul mates. One's going to want to go out all the time, and the other's going to want to chill at home.


----------



## Sol_ (Jan 8, 2013)

Slimblue said:


> Can the Socionics Theory of Duality be supported with MBTI


MBT and Socionics have compatible preferences and hence same types designated with these preferences. So if someone have gotten ENTP and ISFP types by MBTI - they are same duals as in Socionics. The problem - it's rather common when types were identified incorrectly, especially it may to be so when used wrong and controverting to Jung functional model of introverted types in MBT. Happily the main part of MBT practice is focused on preferences, so this mistake in model is minimized.
Note about preferences in Socionics and MBT. They have absolutely same in essence S/N, T/F, J/P preferences descriptions. E/I as it is given at Jung and MBT is _also used in Socionics_, but besides Jungian, Socionics have 2nd additional Augustinavichute's interpretation for E/I wich practically influencing only on -verted functions descriptions (Te, Ti, Se, etc.) - for preference E/I itself as main (and only in 99% cases) interpretation is used Jungian, like in MBT. De facto socionists do not think Augustinavichute's interpretation of E/I as controverting to Jung, but only as expansion of it, they use Jung's understanding of -verted functions parallelly.



> 1.) If these types can coexist, what are some possible barriers that must be overcome?


Do not try to be other than you are, - dual likes you native. Other barriers are outside of typology.



> 2.) What are the potential pitfalls of being in such a relationship?


It's needed to remember that types is only one of factors influencing on relations. The benefit of duality - it's best types match for friendship. But will you become real friends or not is on your hands and situation.


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Uggh, there are so many problems with socionics, it makes me want to throw something. Peoples' understanding of the theory destabilizes what we understand of MBTI, because it brings to light the various ways of typing oneself that are rarely discussed when only one of the two theories is at stake. Specifically, some people use the functions, others don't - so it's hard to say that socionics can reliably "convert," since there isn't one way of treating MBTI to being with, and MBTI is where most people begin. 

Interestingly, I use socionics theory within MBTI _all _the time and feel quite comfortable about doing so. I don't see where Beebe's model is really all that different from Model A, beyond switching the order of things a bit. Whether the functions and IEs are "the same" is a huge debate, and there is significant disagreement - but I will say that if you really believe the functions are anything beyond "just a model," then you also have to base your observations on what happens around you, not what the description says. In other words, it's not the type description that matters, it's the cognitive processes of those around you, which vaguely fit into the category of an "IE." If such processes exist, then it doesn't matter how they are described. 

I'm a classic ILI, much more than an INTJ, and have always been pretty unflappable until a healthy, confident ESFP comes along. I have a pretty big ***** in the armor for them. Something about being "attracted" to someone seems really awkward for me to describe on a public forum, but this 7w8 So/Sx ESFP I know somehow knows exactly how to press the right buttons, and at the right time. It's kind of amazing, since I don't easily become infatuated with girls until I know/trust them at a deep psychological level. Not so with my duals. And I think I kind of do the same thing, by doing absolutely nothing at all out of character.


----------



## Slimblue (Jan 22, 2013)

LXPilot said:


> It's kind of amazing, since I don't easily become infatuated with girls until I know/trust them at a deep psychological level. Not so with my duals. And I think I kind of do the same thing, by doing absolutely nothing at all out of character.


Interesting, I'm an INTP who is an LII in socionics and I must admit that extroverted feeling types really grab hold of my attention which also is not easy for me to express. IMO the reason behind this is having Fe is an inferior function in MBTI, and Fe as the suggestive or "dual seeking" function in socionics. Perhaps this phenomenon is more common with inexperienced individuals who actively seek out partners with qualities that they do not see in themselves.


----------



## Slimblue (Jan 22, 2013)

LXPilot said:


> Something about being "attracted" to someone seems really awkward for me to describe on a public forum, but this 7w8 So/Sx ESFP I know somehow knows exactly how to press the right buttons, and at the right time. It's kind of amazing, since I don't easily become infatuated with girls until I know/trust them at a deep psychological level. Not so with my duals. And I think I kind of do the same thing, by doing absolutely nothing at all out of character.


Interesting, I'm an INTP who is an LII in socionics and I must admit that extroverted feeling types really grab hold of my attention which also is not easy for me to express. IMO the reason behind this is having Fe is an inferior function in MBTI, and Fe as the suggestive or "dual seeking" function in socionics. Perhaps this phenomenon is more common with inexperienced individuals who actively seek out partners with qualities that they do not see in themselves.


----------



## SublimeSerendipity (Dec 30, 2010)

It really can't because not every MBTI ENFP is going to type as a socionics ENFp, and so on and so forth. It's even more complicated with introverts. 

My ISTJ boyfriend and I are socionics duals - I'm an IEE (ENFp) and he's an SLI (ISTp) but not every MBTI couple of ENFP and ISTJ are going to be duals. We really are yin and yang. And yes we are very different and there is a lot of compromises to be made (mostly due to social activity on our E/I differences), but at the end of the day we just work. We make each other better...we are better because of the other.

I think it depends on how knowledgable you are on cognitive functions and how well you can see and understand and relate to the functions themselves (Ne, Fi, Se, Ti, etc...), rather than dichotomies or archetypes. 

Most people only have a very superficial understanding of MBTI, and only understand the 4-letter types. For those people using socionics theory in MBTI is a disaster. They can't see how someone who share no letters (especially on the N/S dichotomy, which is usually the most divisive) can relate to one another, not realizing that they actually share all the same functions and that they support the other's weakest function.


----------



## Owl_Raven (Jan 19, 2013)

In my experience, there is a very large issue with speaking a common language in relationship pairings you listed. A true N will speak an abstract language while the S is speaking a concrete language. Eventually, the intuitive begins to feel alone because the sensing thinker does not want to delve into the topics that most interest he/she. (philosophy, spirituality, other dimensions, the God question etc.) I am an ENFJ (but have many crossovers as an ENTP oddly enough) my ex husband was an ISTP and there was truly almost nothing we had in common. In certain ways it did work well because absolutely everything he excelled at, I did not and vice versa. But on a deeper level it is difficult for a N to truly feel understood and able to share their deepest thoughts in an S world. While that is easier to deal with on a shallow level with friends and acquaintances, it can leave partners in a relationship unable to communicate properly. 

Other than the N/S issue, I do not think the other MBTI specifics matter nearly as much. Have you ever read "Please Understand Me II" by Keirsey? He explains this concept very well in this book. It is actually remarkable how many NFs-NTs marry each other in second marriages after marrying an SJ or SP the first time around.


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Slimblue said:


> Interesting, I'm an INTP who is an LII in socionics and I must admit that extroverted feeling types really grab hold of my attention which also is not easy for me to express. IMO the reason behind this is having Fe is an inferior function in MBTI, and Fe as the suggestive or "dual seeking" function in socionics. Perhaps this phenomenon is more common with inexperienced individuals who actively seek out partners with qualities that they do not see in themselves.


Yeah, I agree. 

One of the big problems, in my view, with socionics + MBTI is that people don't buy into duality. I think a significant number of these instances are caused by lack of a exposure to duals (or, lack of "dualization"). Your inferior/dual-seeking function can be seen in a negative light if you lack positive exposure to it, because you tend to project it in times of stress. I've had ES_P and ISFP friends all through childhood, so it's not as foreign - but, say, for an LII or LSI who spends their life on the internet away from people, perhaps the DS function wouldn't be perceived as positively in excess. 



Sidenote: there are also a lot of people who are mistyped in MBTI but not in socionics, who side with MBTI because they began with it and take it more seriously. There's basically no way to "prove" to them they're wrong - this is particularly bad if you get someone who's mistyped as their quasi-id (say, an EII and INFJ), whose dual is your _conflictor_. Heh, no wonder they don't believe in duality!


----------



## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Can't speak for everyone, but INFPs don't work for me. They're a lot of opposite, but not in a good way.


----------

