# Are Si leading types prone to hypochondria?



## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Si, described as "a strong ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others, to understand how these states are reached, and to recreate and avoid these physical states".

Am I misunderstanding what Si is? I frequently post in Anxiety Zone under the name of "NeurosisOsmosis", and I thought that this might be uncharacteristic of an Si leading type:
Let me google that for you


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## FePa (Feb 13, 2014)

When I'm overstressed, like now, and in Ne-Te loop, with dysfunctional Fi, Si kick in and I get all kind of physical issues...
And chewing the past, over and over again


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm not sure what Socionics has to say about this, but here is Jung's view:

From the Ne description about the affects of the inferior (Si):




Jung said:


> His conscious attitude towards both sensation and object is one of ruthless superiority. Not that he means to be ruthless or superior--he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees and rides roughshod over it, just as the sensation type has no eyes for its soul. *But sooner or later the object takes revenge in the form of compulsive hypocondriacal ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation.*




From the Ni description about the affects of the inferior (Se):




Jung said:


> But if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude, there should be a complete subordination to inner perceptions, the unconscious goes over to the opposition, giving rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence on the object directly contradicts the conscious attitude. *The form of neurosis is a compulsion neurosis with hypochondrical symptoms, hypersensitivity of the sense organs, and compulsive ties to particular persons or objects.*


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Stampede said:


> Si, described as "a strong ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others, to understand how these states are reached, and to recreate and avoid these physical states".
> 
> Am I misunderstanding what Si is? I frequently post in Anxiety Zone under the name of "NeurosisOsmosis", and I thought that this might be uncharacteristic of an Si leading type:
> Let me google that for you


Types that have lower Si are prone to.
I completely despise that over-physical bent in Socionics Si descriptions.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

@To_august Prone to what, hypochondria?

From what I'm understanding you guys are relating hypochondria to weak Si, which is strange considering that I'm supposed to have strong Si. My internal physical states are a source of anxiety, not comfort. Why does my leading function have to be so complicated? Everyone and their mother has a different idea about what it is.


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

Ne> Si although other types can also have it...


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## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

I'd say they are prone to wimpiness, but not hypochondria.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Stampede said:


> @_To_august_ Prone to what, hypochondria?
> 
> From what I'm understanding you guys are relating hypochondria to weak Si, which is strange considering that I'm supposed to have strong Si. My internal physical states are a source of anxiety, not comfort. Why does my leading function have to be so complicated? Everyone and their mother has a different idea about what it is.


Yes, lower sensing can be prone to hypochondria.

Higher Si isn't about physical states at all, at least not for me and not to my understanding. Physical states are the source for both comfort and anxiety, depending on the objective physical situation I'm in. If I'm sick or something hurts - it obviously feels bad, otherwise I don't track this stuff. I don't have special awareness of these states and don't get why I even have to pay attention to such trivialities.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Stampede said:


> @_To_august_ Prone to what, hypochondria?
> 
> From what I'm understanding you guys are relating hypochondria to weak Si, which is strange considering that I'm supposed to have strong Si. My internal physical states are a source of anxiety, not comfort. Why does my leading function have to be so complicated? Everyone and their mother has a different idea about what it is.


This is a psychological issue. I have sensory issues, and it may be type related. But I used to be a hypochondriac. Not everyone is a hypochondriac for the same reason. I am scared of death. I think about it a lot. It's a mindstate. It is a belief. This is what CBT does. It makes you change your beliefs. Beliefs are what gives sensations and thoughts power. I think it is a control issue for me. I cannot control my body at a physiological level. I know how it works. My body. And it often does the wrong things. It's like a car, one small part moves, and the whole thing stops working. If you had one car to last a lifetime, wouldn't every small thing that goes wrong, make you worry? I actually do this with my car too. lol. Any changing in smoothness of the ride, and I notice, and get annoyed. 

Anyway, the bodies gives us weird sensations all the time. My stomach is a little full right now. When I was a hypochondriac, any change in perception, was a threat. Small amount of nausea. Why is that? Every sensation means something. I will drive a fear through the smallest crack. BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT. It is preconceived, and I impose it on everything. I am looking for it, and I will find it. 

My throat gets tight from anxiety in the past. I get more scared. Now that sensation has no power over me. My throat gets tight, it is nothing. It will pass. Because I believe it will pass. CBT is about changing beliefs. Because they are what give things power. Bruce Lee said, "Life is simply what our feelings do to us." That is mindfulness basically. 

I was telling somebody that some forms of anxiety are an internal form of projection. We say things about others, that are about ourselves. It has to be channeled somewhere. This is why anxiety is a great mimic. It takes mind states, which are ignored, but there is still conflict, and redirects them to organs. You don't want to think about it, your heart and lungs will. It is fight or flight. It has to be manifested, and solved. It will always find a way to manifest itself somehow. Push it down, it will pop up somewhere else. Like Jung said, what you resist, persists. That is why it persists.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

To_august said:


> Yes, lower sensing can be prone to hypochondria.
> 
> Higher Si isn't about physical states at all, at least not for me and not to my understanding. Physical states are the source for both comfort and anxiety, depending on the objective physical situation I'm in. If I'm sick or something hurts - it obviously feels bad, otherwise I don't track this stuff. I don't have special awareness of these states and don't get why I even have to pay attention to such trivialities.


Okay, so you're basically telling me that both leading Si and weak Si types can be hypochondriacs, so I can't determine my type through this. What would be the simplest method for confirming whether I'm an Si leading type or not?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Stampede said:


> Okay, so you're basically telling me that both leading Si and weak Si types can be hypochondriacs, so I can't determine my type through this. What would be the simplest method for confirming whether I'm an Si leading type or not?


Not at all. That is a health issue that should be evaluated by a professional. Don't try to reduce it to type. It is unique to each person, and may throw you off from solving it.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Stampede said:


> Si, described as "a strong ability to recognize internal physical states in themselves and others, to understand how these states are reached, and to recreate and avoid these physical states".
> 
> Am I misunderstanding what Si is? I frequently post in Anxiety Zone under the name of "NeurosisOsmosis", and I thought that this might be uncharacteristic of an Si leading type:
> Let me google that for you


It's not that you are misunderstanding Si -- it's that it has been significantly mischaracterized in socionics with Si descriptions being heavily infused with the traits of Enneagram's self-preservation instinct (SP). Si actually doesn't have anything to do with recognizing physical states or hypochondria. My EIE friend who is also into socionics has been trying to explain his hypochondria with having Si PoLR, while you're attributing it to type who have strong Si. Clearly something doesn't add up here 

I've discussed this subject before with Si-leads where they have told me that no, they don't take the best care of their health, they have episodes of insomnia, they have days when they are so involved with something that they forget to eat/drink, they don't always recognize that they are sick or go to the doctor. Exactly same things described by intuitive types attributing it to weak Si. In other words, Si has very little to do with recognizing one's bodily state.

It is best understood as a mental probability process where Ne is the function of making guestimates, hypothetizations and generalizations and Si is the function that feeds actual concrete data points and past experiences into it. Types who have strong Ne are all about making their way forward by guesses and hypothetizations with little feedback coming from their past experiences. This is why they may sound a bit torn from reality, more interested discursive, ideological and ideational discussions than in actual action and implementation. Types with strong Si are mostly about concretics: specific actions, words, terminology, people, but they usually struggle to generalize and interconnect them.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

cyamitide said:


> It is best understood as a mental probability process where Ne is like a function of making guestimates and generalizations, while Si is like the function that feeds actual concrete data points and experiences into it.


Mental probability process to determine what? Can you give me an example?


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Stampede said:


> Mental probability process to determine what? Can you give me an example?


To determine potential vs. actuality.

In the IEE-SLI duality description it states that the IEE "... has a tendency to exaggerate and make even minor qualities seem like major potential and remarkable prospects." This is the workings of having lead Ne. In this way types with strong Ne have a way of inspiring people by boosting everything with possible potential, but often this entails overblowing the potential (Ne) as compared to the real flow of reality (Si). It aso creates a kind of probability field around the Ne person that makes them feel uncertain of what is actually what, and they end up chasing dreams that could never be turned into reality.

Subtypes have much say here. The above is less true for Ti-ILEs, Fi-EIIs, Fi-EIIs, Ti-LIIs. The later two types Fi-EII and Ti-LII have stronger Si hidden agendas and a much more preoccupied with concretizing things to the point of getting mistaken for types with strong sensing. Ti-ILEs and Fi-IEEs usually have stronger suggestive Si to compensate for their lead function such that it doesn't lead them too much into delusions. Their life's problems commonly stem from their weakened hidden agenda function and overuse of creative.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

You know, a lot of what you described on the other forum can be caused by physical tension. Which in turn can be caused by stress; I would still see a general practitioner just to make sure that it's nothing that requires medical attention. Now; stress does affect your breathing, your blood pressure which in turn affects muscular tension and can cause headaches, feelings of numbness on your face, scalp or neck.

Prolonged stress can affect your body and therefore affect your health. Stress could be anything from clutching your muscles in anticipation, anxiety, repressed emotions. Especially anger. Now I am more familiar with MBTI than I am with socionics. So, catastrophizing is very much a trait of inferior Ne. And that is what I see you doing on the other forum. Take a hot bath, have a massage and relax a little bit. Both physically and mentally. At the same time, have a check up and don't write everything off as type. 

I have a tremendous imagination when it comes to sensual matters. If I'm reading a medical text I often experience the sensation of the symptoms without having the actual symptom, same thing when I read descriptions of more pleasant things. Yet I know they are products of the imagination. I have some hypochondria stories of my own where I forgot about a minor injury and I did something to aggravate the injury. I would think it was something more serious because it ceased to be in my consciousness. The physical sensation came back full force to remind me: dude, don't do that, and I would remember I hurt yourself being stupid again.

Usually that's just short lived because I'm lost in la-la land and rarely think about my physical state. I get a laugh out of it and move on. I would say I'm more lucid than anything else. Hypochondria is more of an over active imagination for me, and you know ... the same goes for empathy. I just imagine myself as the other person and there it is. However, there's never the loss of the self: it's still my personal reaction on how I imagine what the other person is feeling or thinking.

edit: off topic-ish question about the subtypes. What happens to Si when you're IEE-2Ne? And what about the hidden agenda: "to know" is something I strongly identify with.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Spastic Origami said:


> You know, a lot of what you described on the other forum can be caused by physical tension. Which in turn can be caused by stress; I would still see a general practitioner just to make sure that it's nothing that requires medical attention. Now; stress does affect your breathing, your blood pressure which in turn affects muscular tension and can cause headaches, feelings of numbness on your face, scalp or neck.
> 
> Prolonged stress can affect your body and therefore affect your health. Stress could be anything from clutching you muscles in anticipation, anxiety, repressed emotions. Especially anger. Now I am more familiar with MBTI than I am with socionics. So, catastrophizing is very much a trait of inferior Ne. And that is what I see you doing on the other forum. Take a hot bath, have a massage and relax a little bit. Both physically and mentally. At the same time, have a check up and don't write everything off as type.


Yeah, I've been under a heavy amount of stress for about a decade, and that isn't likely to change soon.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

Stampede said:


> Yeah, I've been under a heavy amount of stress for about a decade, and that isn't likely to change soon.


... but there are things you can do to take the edge off. Healthy things too. But to answer your question from the other forum I had similar things happen when I was dating my last girlfriend and uncertain about the nature of my friendships. I took the necessary steps by cutting all the toxic people out of my life but it did wear me out mentally and physically. It's been about six months and I still have days when I feel worn out and without any self esteem and I don't always feel like getting out of bed. I can promise you one thing. None of the physical sensations you described cause brain damage in themselves but they may lead to medical conditions that do after prolonged wear and tear. Stupid thing, but watch your jaw and neck tension. Very often when a person is perpetually angry and frustrated they will clutch their jaw, tense up in the front side of their neck and their trapezius muscles in their upper back or furrow their eyebrows and keep their forehead in a locked state. Now each and every single one of these tensions could be responsible for the tingling sensations on your face, scalp and neck. They can also cause headaches behind your eyes and at the back of your neck where the spinal column is attached to your skull or a pulsating sensation in your temples accompanied by ringing in your ears.

... now, is there anything you can do to unwind a little bit. There are certain herbal teas that have a calming effect: lemon grass (melisa), chamomile (rumianek) and valerian extract (krople walerianowe) come to mind. I'm not exactly certain of the English names so I have included the Polish that I am certain of in brackets. Even wasting the evening aware watching ridiculous videos, stand up comedy or doing a marathon of South Park is good therapy. Inferior Si is strangely comical. It's more about fixating on something very trivial and specific, losing track of everything else and making mountains out of molehills. I don't know about the other IEEs but I'm one hell of an attention whore and I like it. If I'm going down, you're getting a show.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Spastic Origami said:


> ... but there are things you can do to take the edge off. Healthy things too. But to answer your question from the other forum I had similar things happen when I was dating my last girlfriend and uncertain about the nature of my friendships. I took the necessary steps by cutting all the toxic people out of my life but it did wear me out mentally and physically. It's been about six months and I still have days when I feel worn out and without any self esteem and I don't always feel like getting out of bed. I can promise you one thing. None of the physical sensations you described cause brain damage in themselves but they may lead to medical conditions that do after prolonged wear and tear. Stupid thing, but watch your jaw and neck tension. Very often when a person is perpetually angry and frustrated they will clutch their jaw, tense up in the front side of their neck and their trapezius muscles in their upper back or furrow their eyebrows and keep their forehead in a locked state. Now each and every single one of these tensions could be responsible for the tingling sensations on your face, scalp and neck. They can also cause headaches behind your eyes and at the back of your neck where the spinal column is attached to your skull or a pulsating sensation in your temples accompanied by ringing in your ears.
> 
> ... now, is there anything you can do to unwind a little bit. There are certain herbal teas that have a calming effect: lemon grass (melisa), chamomile (rumianek) and valerian extract (krople walerianowe) come to mind. I'm not exactly certain of the English names so I have included the Polish that I am certain of in brackets. Even wasting the evening aware watching ridiculous videos, stand up comedy or doing a marathon of South Park is good therapy. Inferior Si is strangely comical. It's more about fixating on something very trivial and specific, losing track of everything else and making mountains out of molehills. I don't know about the other IEEs but I'm one hell of an attention whore and I like it. If I'm going down, you're getting a show.


I don't want to transform the thread into Stampede's Therapy Session, but that's basically the core of my problem; I'm bonded to toxic people in my life, and there's no way for me to break those bonds because I lack value. I'm a high school dropout, and I'm nearly twenty-one years old without having ever been employed. I could go into more detail but yeah. Recently I have been suffering from tinnitus, perhaps this is the cause.

I'll look into those teas. I've been on the paleo diet for the past few months. I spend most of my time in my room on the internet dicking around. I used to exercise frequently, but I'm unable to go outside now (toxic people).


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

Stampede said:


> I don't want to transform the thread into Stampede's Therapy Session, but that's basically the core of my problem; I'm bonded to toxic people in my life, and there's no way for me to break those bonds because I lack value. I'm a high school dropout, and I'm nearly twenty-one years old without having ever been employed. I could go into more detail but yeah. Recently I have been suffering from tinnitus, perhaps this is the cause.
> 
> I'll look into those teas. I've been on the paleo diet for the past few months. I spend most of my time in my room on the internet dicking around. I used to exercise frequently, but I'm unable to go outside now (toxic people).


Ok, cool. I'm of the opinion that too much therapy creates problems. We've answered you're questions regarding anatomy, talked about some ideas on taking the edge off. You've clearly articulated what's bothering you and I leave you to take action when you feel you are ready. Only thing to add is that toxic people have this thing about them that they will continue to strip you of all self esteem. I know of cases where people have conditioned their depression, anxieties or traumas by over analysing everything and learning to think of their past as a grave misfortune. I refuse to play that game. All I can hope for is that I've answered some of your questions and that you feel a little bit better.

... and to bring the thread back on track. Some thoughts, or at least some questions I'm asking myself:

What happens to your relationship with Si when you're IxE-Ne or IxE-2Ne? Contrariwise, what happens to relationship with Ne is your you're SxI-Si or SxI-2Si? Furthermore, is there a grip of the inferior equivalent in socionics as Naomi Queck described in MBTI? And lastly, since hypochondria is a propriety of inferior Si and catastrophizing of inferior Ne in MBTI, should we be importing these ideas here?


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Spastic Origami said:


> ... and to bring the thread back on track. Some thoughts, or at least some questions I'm asking myself:
> 
> What happens to your relationship with Si when you're IxE-Ne or IxE-2Ne? Contrariwise, what happens to relationship with Ne is your you're SxI-Si or SxI-2Si? Furthermore, is there a grip of the inferior equivalent in socionics as Naomi Queck described in MBTI? And lastly, since hypochondria is a propriety of inferior Si and catastrophizing of inferior Ne in MBTI, should we be importing these ideas here?


I think more or less it can be interpreted from the point of view of dimensionality. Dual-seeking function is 1D, hence can manifest itself in primitive, negative ways. It has trouble seeing past one's experience and acts clumsily even within this single dimension. For instance, my DS is Ne, and nevertheless I like to receive ideas from external world (not only "like" but in fact "need" to receive them, 'cause if environment doesn't provide me with ideas it starts feeling like I'm chewing the old gum over and over again), most of the time I don't really know what to do with them. Under stress it can cause truly paranoid states.

In Socionics the most problem-plagued function is one's PoLR, which is one-dimensional as well as DS. I guess both 1D functions are the source of the most problems for a given type.


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## lightwing (Feb 17, 2013)

Stampede said:


> I don't want to transform the thread into Stampede's Therapy Session, but that's basically the core of my problem; I'm bonded to toxic people in my life, and there's no way for me to break those bonds because I lack value.


If I might be so bold as to suggest that this is a good thing? Not necessarily just for you, but for others as well. Suffice it to say that I might be going through similar things to you and I appreciate what you've shared and brought out so far. I often wonder if I should seek counselling, but how to afford the visits is a concern for me. Beyond that, being the kind of person I am, it's hard to "admit defeat."


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Stampede said:


> I don't want to transform the thread into Stampede's Therapy Session, but that's basically the core of my problem; I'm bonded to toxic people in my life, and there's no way for me to break those bonds because I lack value. I'm a high school dropout, and I'm nearly twenty-one years old without having ever been employed. I could go into more detail but yeah. Recently I have been suffering from tinnitus, perhaps this is the cause.
> 
> I'll look into those teas. I've been on the paleo diet for the past few months. I spend most of my time in my room on the internet dicking around. I used to exercise frequently, but I'm unable to go outside now (toxic people).


It's normal, man. Calm down. 21? Nothing matters at that age. I would kill to be 21 again, with no job. I was more of a fuck up. Your life has not even started. You decide your own value. Tons of guys I know avoided working around that age. And are very successful now.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Spastic Origami said:


> You know, a lot of what you described on the other forum can be caused by physical tension. Which in turn can be caused by stress; I would still see a general practitioner just to make sure that it's nothing that requires medical attention. Now; stress does affect your breathing, your blood pressure which in turn affects muscular tension and can cause headaches, feelings of numbness on your face, scalp or neck.
> 
> Prolonged stress can affect your body and therefore affect your health. Stress could be anything from clutching your muscles in anticipation, anxiety, repressed emotions. Especially anger. Now I am more familiar with MBTI than I am with socionics. So, catastrophizing is very much a trait of inferior Ne. And that is what I see you doing on the other forum. Take a hot bath, have a massage and relax a little bit. Both physically and mentally. At the same time, have a check up and don't write everything off as type.
> 
> ...


Precisely. It's like being in a war zone. It has long term effects on the body, being under stress that much. People think that just because the situation isn't actually a war zone, that it doesn't matter. But it does. The body doesn't know the difference. Because our minds make shit up. I know enough about health, to make myself worry about anything. I can make a fear out of nothing. It is a challenge to me. I will find it. Not anymore. But I used to.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

I am starting to think this is like what Freud said about dreams, after reading Spastic Origami's post. It all makes sense. Overactive imagination, or dreaming. But dreams are symptoms too. Cuz Freud wants to know where dream content comes from. This one guy had a ridiculous dream about frogs. Where did this content come from? Why is it there? The guy was like 60. What happened was, he was sitting in a doctor's office when he was a little boy, and there was this weird painting of frogs on the wall. He later found this out later. So one glance from 50 years ago, put that thought in his head. Your brain remembers it all somehow, even if you don't. You will dream about it 50 years later, and even fragment it to pieces you can never put together. It mixes so much. 

So when we read all this information, and other stories and symptoms. Our brain remembers that stuff, and uses it. Tries to make it fit at later times. Though it is other people's content. That was one of Jung's themes, "Why do you play with the thoughts that you do?" There is a reason. It's not random. Your body connects them that way for a reason.


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## napkineater (Mar 26, 2013)

I think it's more a tert Si thing, because INxPs haven't quite got the handle of it, but at the same time it's apart of their cognition enough that it would affect them for more than inferior Si types. For example with INFPs:



> I have seen INFPs who, once they begin to develop Si, start to pay very close attention to possible contaminants which could taint the purity of their physical bodies in the environment around them. They'll become extra careful to check food to make sure it hasn't gone bad, has the right nutritional content, etc. Some of them either insist on seeing a doctor more often than necessary, or become distrustful of doctors in general and avoid the experience, if they've had some negative past experience with doctors or medication (as, unfortunately, a fair number of INFPs have.) When applied positively though, it gives them a grounding into something real, something they can hold on to that they know will always be there for them because it always has been--this can be instrumental in leading the INFP into the spiritually aware and comfortable state she desires.
> 
> Development of tertiary Si helps the INFP connect her physical health and the needs of her body to the emotional and spiritual health upon which Fi is so heavily focused. As INFPs learn to pay more attention to Si, they will learn what conditions and surroundings are likely to lead them to better physical health, and recognize the enormous effect this will have on their emotional and spiritual health. As Si improves, they will appear to take a page from ISJs in their refusal to work under conditions that "don't feel right" in that they aren't conducive to promoting the calm, relaxed, and emotionally aware state under which their creative juices can flow most freely.


And INTPs: 



> The most essential purpose of Si is to provide a sense of comfort in familiarity, in the idea that our internal maps of undifferentiated information work best when we're able to sustain them with a consistent flow of concrete sensory data, and that we should be wary of people, places, and situations that the map has not yet charted. For INTPs under the influence of tertiary Si, this can generate a certain degree of cynicism and potentially even irrational distrust of situations they've experienced before and associated a negative connotation with. INTPs may develop curious suspicions about the adverse effects of their surroundings on their physical health; they may select insignificant sensory details to use as scapegoats for their inability to produce consistent work. ("I'd be churning out fantastic material here if only these morons could get me some half decent coffee!")





PaladinX said:


> I'm not sure what Socionics has to say about this, but here is Jung's view:
> 
> From the Ne description about the affects of the inferior (Si):
> 
> ...


Dude, I didn't know Jung used to be a poster here.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

napkineater said:


> I think it's more a tert Si thing.


I have toyed around with the idea of being EII in the past. I'm pretty sure I'm a Te ego though.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

lightwing said:


> If I might be so bold as to suggest that this is a good thing? Not necessarily just for you, but for others as well. Suffice it to say that I might be going through similar things to you and I appreciate what you've shared and brought out so far. I often wonder if I should seek counselling, but how to afford the visits is a concern for me. Beyond that, being the kind of person I am, it's hard to "admit defeat."


You aren't admitting defeat. You are seeking reinforcements, to beat an enemy. I beat a ton of enemies, mainly because I had reinforcements. The US has the most powerful military ever. They are still locked down in military alliances with nearly the entire Western world, and want to be. The enemies of your enemies, that sort of thing. It is hard to open up, I know.


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## napkineater (Mar 26, 2013)

Stampede said:


> I have toyed around with the idea of being EII in the past. I'm pretty sure I'm a Te ego though.


Oh shit, didn't realise this was socionics. My bad!


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

To_august said:


> I think more or less it can be interpreted from the point of view of dimensionality. Dual-seeking function is 1D, hence can manifest itself in primitive, negative ways. It has trouble seeing past one's experience and acts clumsily even within this single dimension. For instance, my DS is Ne, and nevertheless I like to receive ideas from external world (not only "like" but in fact "need" to receive them, 'cause if environment doesn't provide me with ideas it starts feeling like I'm chewing the old gum over and over again), most of the time I don't really know what to do with them. Under stress it can cause truly paranoid states.


I don't ever recall feeling paranoid in my life. If I haven't read about it in fiction, seen it in film and other people I would have no clue to what you're talking about. I had a friend once who told me I think too much, and when I'm just tossing possibilities out in the open she thought I was paranoid. I felt confused only to tell her that I haven't thought about it enough because I'm saying a million things at once and haven't made up my mind as to what the case may be. So I'm starting to think that you and I mean two different things when we think of hypochondria. 

My body exists in a state beyond consciousness. I feel physical sensations except they're always forgotten and ignored. So when something comes into the centre of consciousness it's impact is overwhelming. The sensation is grossly exaggerated at first followed by a morose fascination and a slight obsession to mind the origin of the sensation and the organ in question. I remember a time when I would practice piano extensively and hold a lot of tension in my back and shoulders. I also wiped out and pulled a muscle in my back cycling home from university and completely forgot about the pain. The morning after I reach for something banal, it could be a cup of tea perhaps, aggravate everything and think I'm having a heart attack until I calm myself down. Meanwhile I could also be contemplating the scrapes on my arms and trying to remember where they came from.

... sometimes I do feel stuck in life when I'm depressed or there's nothing that captivates my interest or when I'm stressed and feeling burned out in life be it work or relationships. If I stay in, it only festers and there's always a compulsion to stay in and mope. I must get out of the house and talk to somebody so that I don't continue to dwell on my misery and feel like nothing is ever going to change. So yeah, ADHD me says, the external world is a must in order to maintain hope, or generate ideas. However when the external reality stinks as it sometimes does, we might have a little bit of a problem. 



> In Socionics the most problem-plagued function is one's PoLR, which is one-dimensional as well as DS. I guess both 1D functions are the source of the most problems for a given type.


... so, I'm not always inspired to have my posts make sense. I'm sometimes dissuaded from replying when I know I would have to present a structured argument. I much rather sit around and tell stories like I am right now and think back to my English classes where we were beat with the five paragraph essay. Who cares what you write about so long as that it follows a certain structure, uses the correct font and system of annotations and kisses academic ass. What's funny is that I used to identify as a thinker because of all the maths classes I took, and that I can spin language around so I could screw with people's heads, but I would go as far a feigning a mental breakdown because I had to write a structured paper. Organization is something traumatizing indeed.

Si, I really need physical details pointed out to me. Only time I don't is when reality is truly fantastical.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Spastic Origami said:


> I don't ever recall feeling paranoid in my life. If I haven't read about it in fiction, seen it in film and other people I would have no clue to what you're talking about. I had a friend once who told me I think too much, and when I'm just tossing possibilities out in the open she thought I was paranoid. I felt confused only to tell her that I haven't thought about it enough because I'm saying a million things at once and haven't made up my mind as to what the case may be. So I'm starting to think that you and I mean two different things when we think of hypochondria.
> 
> My body exists in a state beyond consciousness. I feel physical sensations except they're always forgotten and ignored. So when something comes into the centre of consciousness it's impact is overwhelming. The sensation is grossly exaggerated at first followed by a morose fascination and a slight obsession to mind the origin of the sensation and the organ in question. I remember a time when I would practice piano extensively and hold a lot of tension in my back and shoulders. I also wiped out and pulled a muscle in my back cycling home from university and completely forgot about the pain. The morning after I reach for something banal, it could be a cup of tea perhaps, aggravate everything and think I'm having a heart attack until I calm myself down. Meanwhile I could also be contemplating the scrapes on my arms and trying to remember where they came from.
> 
> ...


I was putting together a theory, which probably already exists, that Fe-Ti are better at seeing other perspectives than Fi-Te. That is why we are more speculative. We sort other people's stuff basically. Like Kant. All he does, is say, this is this, that is that. He separates other people's ideas basically. He sees both sides, and puts them where they should be. Jung and Spinoza were the same. Jung was the ultimate guy at this. That is why, after all this stuff he wrote, he still really has no philosophy. Because he was just explaining other people's stuff, with his own spin. Like, "Somebody created alchemy, here is what I think it means. And why guys like Newton are wrong." Jung is always cleaning up after others. I was saying this about Freeman Dyson too, who I think is Fe-Ti. He just unifies things. Three guys came up with a brilliant theory, that was different, but equal. Which one is right? How does this make sense? Dyson knew. He always proves people wrong. He shows they are all equal, those 3 win a Nobel, and science advances greatly. Dyson moves on to solve other things. Dyson is the ultimate sorter. He always compares different kinds of scientists. He knows both types have equal value. And Richard Feynman and Einstein have different styles than him, but need each other. Which was what Jung was always saying too. Dyson already uses personality theory, and I learned a lot from him. Because he knew some big guys, and was involved in big things. Fe-Ti, expands their thinking to a larger context. Which many think can get useless, and possibly dangerous. So both sides need each other.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Spastic Origami said:


> I don't ever recall feeling paranoid in my life. If I haven't read about it in fiction, seen it in film and other people I would have no clue to what you're talking about. I had a friend once who told me I think too much, and when I'm just tossing possibilities out in the open she thought I was paranoid. I felt confused only to tell her that I haven't thought about it enough because I'm saying a million things at once and haven't made up my mind as to what the case may be. So I'm starting to think that you and I mean two different things when we think of hypochondria.


I think you misunderstood me (or maybe I'm misunderstanding you in a sense that you referred to me in this part, lol), but in my post I wasn't talking about hypochondria or Si at all. Instead I meant my own low/inferior/dual-seeking Ne, which can cause paranoid states. Of course higher Ne wouldn't suffer from them, because it works differently once in a dominant position.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Just got banned from that forum because they thought I had to be trolling. I'm losing my fucking mind, I know that I have brain damage from inhaling whatever it is that's in the air. I'll have a much more difficult time in life now, since my IQ has been reduced by selfish people forcing me to inhale these horrible chemicals in the air. I'm still inhaling them even now, screwing my brain even further. I cannot escape these mind killing chemicals. A pitiful life approaches, death approaches.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

@Stampede. 

I'm terribly sorry that you're suffering. I have read your posts on the other forum and we talked about my experience with tension, anxiety and what I know of human anatomy and medicine so that you can cope with your emotions. Do what it takes to calm yourself. Mindfulness and deep focused breathing works wonders. Please see a doctor a have a medical. If it's anxiety and hypochondria you'll know sooner and feel a lot better. If it's physical you can get the treatment you need. Constant stress can lead to physical conditions meaning that medicine of the mind must be accompanied with medicine of the body. Maybe it's time to look beyond type.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

@Spastic Origami I wish I could see a doctor man, but I'm broke with no health insurance, and my vassalizers have no interest in letting me see one. By the time I am able to see a doctor my brain will be permanently damaged by the chemicals that I'm inhaling in this building. I could leave tomorrow but then I would be homeless, and I'd probably be exposed to even more hazards.

My ability to acquire resources will soon be significantly lessened. I must prepare myself for the fact that I will most likely be alone forever, as I will never be able acquire a significant amount of resources with my soon to be low IQ since I will then be unable meet the academic prerequisites for employment. 

I appreciate your concern.


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Stampede said:


> Are Si leading types prone to hypochondria?


No, they are the *least* prone to hypochondria.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Tellus said:


> No, they are the *least* prone to hypochondria.


So am I not an Si leading type, or am I an exception to the rule?


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## Tellus (Dec 30, 2012)

Stampede said:


> So am I not an Si leading type, or am I an exception to the rule?


You are not an exception to the rule.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Tellus said:


> You are not an exception to the rule.


Then what type do you think I am? If Si leading types are the least prone to hypochondria, then me being an Si leading type and a hypochondriac would be an exception to the rule.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

I'd agree. I think hypochondria would be most prevalent among the Ne-ego _and_ Ni-ego types.

The Ne-egos because their Si is of low order and prone to suggestibility about their health state. Ni-egos because Si is either the role or PoLR and thus can be a point of obsession or even paranoia about one's health.


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