# SX Confessions, Rants, Vents, Rages, Purges



## Animal

~Unleash your SX. Let it rip, rant, and rage. Feel free to purge until you attain catharsis.~​


----------



## Galaxies

There's nothing more condescending than people who tell me "I used to be like that/ I used to think like that but I don't anymore" after I express my feelings and thoughts on something that bothers me... because to them, you're too naive and hopeless. You're so cute and innocent, you'll never comprehend human behaviour.

All I then see is red, intense and flashing and I have to get the person out of my site. 

They're too ignorant to grasp that others' think differently. Articulation gets me nowhere. I really hate that people, who can't get their act together, feel the need to give you advice. Are they really that blinded to their own shortcomings? Why would I ask for advice from someone who manipulates people to increase their self-esteem? Or someone who has a giant chip on their shoulder? Or someone who whines all the time?

I can't stand people who are self-absorbed that they miss all social cues. You do realise how brusque I'm being, right? Do I always have to put it bluntly? Can you not see that no one cares? Do you love the sound of your voice _that_ much? How long do I have to listen to your moronic, narrow-minded spiel?

No, it's not about love, it's about human rights, you middle-class halfwit.






Oh, boy, that felt good.


----------



## Snow

> SX Confessions, Rants, Vents, Rages, Purges
> ~Unleash your SX. Let it rip, rant, and rage. Feel free to purge until you attain catharsis.~​


Confession: took me 'til I was almost 30 before I realized how to "control" my urges to mentally/emotionally connect with people.

Hmmm sx/sp rant: SX IS SO MUCH FUN SOMETIMES!!!

sx/sp vent: sx sucks so badly sometimes...

sx/sp rage: I worry too much sometimes! *rages?*

sx/sp purge: I'm so bad at this game...


----------



## g_w

Galaxies said:


> There's nothing more condescending than people who tell me "I used to be like that/ I used to think like that but I don't anymore" after I express my feelings and thoughts on something that bothers me... because to them, you're too naive and hopeless. You're so cute and innocent, you'll never comprehend human behaviour.
> 
> All I then see is red, intense and flashing and I have to get the person out of my site.
> 
> They're too ignorant to grasp that others' think differently. Articulation gets me nowhere. I really hate that people, who can't get their act together, feel the need to give you advice. Are they really that blinded to their own shortcomings? Why would I ask for advice from someone who manipulates people to increase their self-esteem? Or someone who has a giant chip on their shoulder? Or someone who whines all the time?
> 
> I can't stand people who are self-absorbed that they miss all social cues. You do realise how brusque I'm being, right? Do I always have to put it bluntly? Can you not see that no one cares? Do you love the sound of your voice _that_ much? How long do I have to listen to your moronic, narrow-minded spiel?
> 
> No, it's not about love, it's about human rights, you middle-class halfwit.
> 
> Oh, boy, that felt good.


I know how you feel. At least, I used to. :laughing:

Seriously, a follow-up question on that -- if the person says that "they don't think that anymore" -- does it matter if the thing you're discussing, is something that bothers you, which you wish to overcome? (The person responding is trying to suggest *a way out* ?
And they're offering it "in case it helps" and not as "my way is the ONLY way to be" ?)

Also, can you flesh out a bit more on "articulation gets you nowhere?" As an INTJ (not an INFP, sorry!) I find articulating helps a LOT because before I articulate, I have to organize my thoughts -- and doing that either helps resolve the problem, or means that once I *do* tell someone else, they roll their eyes at me because the answer is SO. FREAKING. OBVIOUS. ("Why didn't YOU try that?" they always ask; and I have no socially acceptable answer.)

Also -- as in INTJ -- I'm not so self-absorbed that I miss all social cues: I miss the social cues even when I haven't said anything.
D'oh. :frustrating:

Enough "moronic narrow minded spiel."

Over and out.


----------



## Galaxies

g_w said:


> I know how you feel. At least, I used to. :laughing:
> 
> Seriously, a follow-up question on that -- if the person says that "they don't think that anymore" -- does it matter if the thing you're discussing, is something that bothers you, which you wish to overcome? (The person responding is trying to suggest *a way out* ?
> And they're offering it "in case it helps" and not as "my way is the ONLY way to be" ?)


It's usually something that I want to overcome and their response is always a 'my way is the only way'.




g_w said:


> Also, can you flesh out a bit more on "articulation gets you nowhere?" As an INTJ (not an INFP, sorry!) I find articulating helps a LOT because before I articulate, I have to organize my thoughts -- and doing that either helps resolve the problem, or means that once I *do* tell someone else, they roll their eyes at me because the answer is SO. FREAKING. OBVIOUS. ("Why didn't YOU try that?" they always ask; and I have no socially acceptable answer.)


I can always articulate how I feel when I'm angry but it's a case of Si-Fe vs Fi-Ne where Ne looks for other possibilities and how to fix the problem but Si sees the same solutions.


----------



## Galaxies

Confession: Dear friend, your seedy jokes are lame. Please stop. We make those jokes when we're in our teens, you're 27, it's giving me second-hand embarrassment.


----------



## Dan E

Galaxies said:


> There's nothing more condescending than people who tell me "I used to be like that/ I used to think like that but I don't anymore" after I express my feelings and thoughts on something that bothers me... because to them, you're too naive and hopeless. You're so cute and innocent, you'll never comprehend human behaviour.
> 
> All I then see is red, intense and flashing and I have to get the person out of my site.
> 
> They're too ignorant to grasp that others' think differently. Articulation gets me nowhere. I really hate that people, who can't get their act together, feel the need to give you advice. Are they really that blinded to their own shortcomings? Why would I ask for advice from someone who manipulates people to increase their self-esteem? Or someone who has a giant chip on their shoulder? Or someone who whines all the time?
> 
> I can't stand people who are self-absorbed that they miss all social cues. You do realise how brusque I'm being, right? Do I always have to put it bluntly? Can you not see that no one cares? Do you love the sound of your voice _that_ much? How long do I have to listen to your moronic, narrow-minded spiel?
> 
> No, it's not about love, it's about human rights, you middle-class halfwit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, boy, that felt good.


The worst vice is advice.


----------



## ScarlettHayden

Revenant said:


> Confession: took me 'til I was almost 30 before I realized how to "control" my urges to mentally/emotionally connect with people.


I'm in the process of learning, but it's one hell of a struggle. Being an INTJ as well makes it worse since I naturally want to keep it all in, so it's like there's this _huge_ war going on inside me whenever I talk to someone.


----------



## Sina

took me a while to find this thread. :3

not an sx dom, but i do, often, feel that i desire, want, demand and need more intensity, involvement and passion than most people can provide. i recalled getting to know someone who while great in a lot of ways was just a bit too...lukewarm? lol for me ..and it made me cringe imagining being in a relationship with someone like that. 

i am not looking for anything bordering emotional instability or some shit (my mother was abusive, insane and unstable, no thanks lol), but i do want powerful emotions, meeting me at my intensity or exceeding it, extreme closeness and lack of monotony. i don't like the idea of a relationship falling into routine. i want wild fires, poetry in flesh and blood, rage, serenity, turbulence ending in laughter or heightened intimacy, understanding to the point where you can revel in being so close to your partner that you can't tell where they start and you begin while still retaining your individuality, priorities and more. 

i have always been very in control, rather stoic and self-contained especially where pain is concerned. and yet, i have an overwhelmingly (except for as @_Animal_, would say, those from the same planet...who can either exceed it or match me as i said) passionate personality and a tempestuous side that most people can't handle. all of what i described above is a requirement. after attempting to see how things would pan out if all else was more or less great but the intensity levels were mismatched, in a few cases, i've decided i'd rather be single than do without. it just doesn't-fuckin-work for me. period.


----------



## CaptSwan

:laughing:

Well... I'm throwing my hat on the ring *throws hat*

In less than 1 year; and, @LeoCat won't let me lie, I've found myself madly in love with over 5 or 6 different women; all of them completely opposite from one another, but... I loved them (sometimes 2 at the same time). I can't really help it, I've always had a poor impulse control; and, when someone gets in me, I pursue her madly and intensely. I've seen things rise, peak, crash and burn; all in less than 3 days. Tells a lot about me, huh?


----------



## Blystone

CaptSwan said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Well... I'm throwing my hat on the ring *throws hat*
> 
> In less than 1 year; and, @_LeoCat_ won't let me lie, I've found myself madly in love with over 5 or 6 different women; all of them completely opposite from one another, but... I loved them (sometimes 2 at the same time). I can't really help it, I've always had a poor impulse control; and, when someone gets in me, I pursue her madly and intensely. I've seen things rise, peak, crash and burn; all in less than 3 days. Tells a lot about me, huh?


A. That's not love.

B. You're probably a 7.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> A. That's not love.
> 
> B. You're probably a 7.


hahahahahahaa


----------



## HellCat

Naqsh said:


> took me a while to find this thread. :3
> 
> not an sx dom, but i do, often, feel that i desire, want, demand and need more intensity, involvement and passion than most people can provide. i recalled getting to know someone who while great in a lot of ways was just a bit too...lukewarm? lol for me ..and it made me cringe imagining being in a relationship with someone like that.
> 
> i am not looking for anything bordering emotional instability or some shit (my mother was abusive, insane and unstable, no thanks lol), but i do want powerful emotions, meeting me at my intensity or exceeding it, extreme closeness and lack of monotony. i don't like the idea of a relationship falling into routine. i want wild fires, poetry in flesh and blood, rage, serenity, turbulence ending in laughter or heightened intimacy, understanding to the point where you can revel in being so close to your partner that you can't tell where they start and you begin while still retaining your individuality, priorities and more.
> 
> i have always been very in control, rather stoic and self-contained especially where pain is concerned. and yet, i have an overwhelmingly (except for as @_Animal_, would say, those from the same planet...who can either exceed it or match me as i said) passionate personality and a tempestuous side that most people can't handle. all of what i described above is a requirement. after attempting to see how things would pan out if all else was more or less great but the intensity levels were mismatched, in a few cases, i've decided i'd rather be single than do without. it just doesn't-fuckin-work for me. period.


Brilliantly put love. 

I want to add, respect and wisdom is so important with that intensity. 

I get bored so easily usually with a guy because they want my fiery self without showing respect and using wisdom involving me. I consider those most important thing. Because I can just as easily forget you exist, when you fuck up. I don't do trust unconditionally. It would be foolish to, even for the sake of a passionate encounter.


----------



## Arya

Blystone said:


> A. That's not love.
> 
> B. You're probably a 7.


Meh I've experienced the same and I am no seven.


----------



## Blystone

Arya said:


> Meh I've experienced the same and I am no seven.


OK? You can be sluts and whores all you want, but you can't equate lust with love. Regardless, my reasoning for him being a 7 had more to do with the fact only a 7 would be vain enough to use a quote authored by himself than it did with his experiences with women and "love".


----------



## Arya

Blystone said:


> OK? You can be sluts and whores all you want, but you can't equate lust with love. Regardless, my reasoning for him being a 7 had more to do with the fact only a 7 would be vain enough to use a quote authored by himself than it did with his experiences with women and "love".


that's not true either. I highly enjoy using my own quotes if they're good enough, and I know other sixes who are the same way


----------



## Blystone

Arya said:


> that's not true either. I highly enjoy using my own quotes if they're good enough, and I know other sixes who are the same way


Names?


----------



## Animal

Blystone said:


> OK? You can be sluts and whores all you want,


I'm pretty sure they were referring to crushes & feelings, not having sex with multiple people. Just a hunch.. could be wrong. 

Unless you're referring to emotional whores...?



> but you can't equate lust with love.


True. This is one of my many pet peeves about our over-sexed, emotionally shallow culture.

(Disclaimer: I am not accusing the above posters of being over-sexed or emotionally shallow. Simply commenting on the idea. I know for one that @_Arya_ is very aware of the difference between lust and love, so this would not apply to her, at least.)


I wrote this today on another forum about 'friend zone' complaints. And I think it qualifies as an SX-rant, and also my personal feelings about feelings, and love vs. lust.. etc. So I will copy it here:

__________

My problem with the whole "friend zone" label is that I need to be friends with someone before I want them. I'm heavily demisexual. I might feel inklings of chemistry with someone right away, but that needs to build before I have real desire to be with him. 

No matter how attractive someone is, if he jumps the gun too quickly, I lose interest. I feel cornered and pressured and that is a turn-off. I also don't respond well to expectations. It's one thing to grow into each other, influence each other, change each other over time.. but another for someone to meet me and think I'm pretty and then immediately expect me to respond to him a certain way. My feelings need to evolve naturally. I don't owe someone my sexual attention just because he's drawn to me. If anything, he owes it to himself to put the time it takes to really get to know the woman he wants, and draw her in and show her how special she is.

The whole "fear of friendzone" thing is a symptom of a sick, oversexed culture in my opinion. It's also objectifying people, acting like you "wasted your time" if they decide they just want to be friends. The kind of man I would fall in love with is someone who invests in me and thinks I am worth his time whether things go the way he wants or not. Conversely, I would not deserve a wonderful man unless I was willing to invest some time in him, just to get to know him. If he turned out not wanting me, of course that would hurt, but I could still appreciate the time we spent getting to know each other. 

A friendship is not an "ultimatum." A person is not a "goal." I think it should be pretty obvious whether there is chemistry there or not, and it takes time for two people to really grow to care about each other. If everyone weren't so overly concerned with rushing into bed with each other, this process itself, could be regarded as beautiful.. regardless of where it leads. Beyond that, the friendships that turned to relationships would be more likely to work out well.


Of course I hate rejection. Of course I hate it when I'm mad for a guy and he just sees me as a friend. I've been hurt in this way - badly - and it stung. I'm not taking away from that. But I still saw the time we spent together, as being worth it. Anyone I was truly interested in, was someone who had something to offer me, and our conversations or time spent together helped me to grow into a better person. (Which is why I liked him in the first place!) And in some cases, people I might have been initially drawn to, panned out into true friendship, music or creative partnerships, or other things. Because the mind-chemistry was there, and was real. I would never regard that process of true, deep connection as a "waste of time." Sex isn't everything.​

​


----------



## HellCat

Exactly. For some reason men seem to think if they admire your symmetry you owe them attention sexually. I also scoff when they try telling me they love me the day we met, I don't think so. Worshipping someone for your vision of who they are in that way, is an act of hatred too. Its dehumanizing.


----------



## HellCat

I would say the average woman is no better, with her shallow preoccupation with what cars men drive, and their resources available etc. To even the rant. 

It makes me sad for both genders to be so trapped in their fears.


----------



## Dalton

Blystone said:


> OK? You can be sluts and whores all you want, but you can't equate lust with love. Regardless, my reasoning for him being a 7 had more to do with the fact only a 7 would be vain enough to use a quote authored by himself than it did with his experiences with women and "love".


THIS guy. 

By the way, you're an ENTJ. Only an ENTJ would be this rude. Also, you have a selfie of yourself in a t-shirt with cut-off sleeves. Probz not an INTJ. Juz sayin'.


----------



## HellCat

Dalton said:


> THIS guy.
> 
> By the way, you're an ENTJ. Only an ENTJ would be this rude. Also, you have a selfie of yourself in a t-shirt with cut-off sleeves. Probz not an INTJ. Juz sayin'.


That is hilarious. 

I disagree at the assessment, any type can be blunt, rude and thoughtless. You don't need to be inferior in F to lack basic human decency and common sense. Just immature and solipsistic.


----------



## Blystone

Dalton said:


> THIS guy.
> 
> By the way, you're an ENTJ. Only an ENTJ would be this rude. Also, you have a selfie of yourself in a t-shirt with cut-off sleeves. Probz not an INTJ. Juz sayin'.


I prefer ENTJ anyway, asshat. As for the pic, it's over a year old; from back when I was dating my best friend. 


OT: Are you ready for the FEMA camps? I hear the Army is recruiting if you'd rather be the shepherd and not the sheep:

Internment / Resettlement Specialist (31E) | goarmy.com


----------



## Dalton

LeoCat said:


> Exactly. For some reason men seem to think if they admire your symmetry you owe them attention sexually. I also scoff when they try telling me they love me the day we met, I don't think so. Worshipping someone for your vision of who they are in that way, is an act of hatred too. Its dehumanizing.


My only disagreement is that you say "men" instead of "a lot of men". The rest is wisdom.



LeoCat said:


> That is hilarious.
> 
> I disagree at the assessment, any type can be blunt, rude and thoughtless. You don't need to be inferior in F to lack basic human decency and common sense. Just immature and solipsistic.


So lil' ENTJ me might have a heart after all? :shocked: :blushed:

(It was meant to be a jest at @Blystone's poor rationale, not an actual assessment. Of course, the selfie _does_ make me wonder... :wink


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> That is hilarious.
> 
> I disagree at the assessment, any type can be blunt, rude and thoughtless. You don't need to be inferior in F to lack basic human decency and common sense. Just immature and solipsistic.


You don't even know what solipsism is.


----------



## HellCat

Here is a rant, people are too fucking obsessed with cuddling their number and alphabet score and using it as a crutch. Rather than ever trying to better themselves emotionally and grow in actual awareness. I don't mean the ones in this thread.

It makes me want to rip my fucking hair out. Especially the ones who get attached to a number/alphabet and then lose all other facets of themselves in hopes to live out this sad fantasy of fulfilling a one dimensional poorly written paper version of themselves.

Wheres the blood and guts?

I love Animals thread, she makes people bleed. 


I had to work my entire life on my damn Fi and I conquered it and made it my bitch by learning how to communicate painstakingly practicing daily.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> You don't even know what solipsism is.



Okay. That is the brightest comeback you're capable of, apparently. Well done.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> Okay. That is the brightest comeback you're capable of, apparently. Well done.


Comeback? What are you, 12?


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> Comeback? What are you, 12?


Don't be passive aggressive if you cannot handle criticism of the technique. Being rude to someone is an incredibly solipsistic view.

I don't care to entangle myself in this farther because it is pointless and derailing Animal's thread. Which will end up in you getting punished. Its not wise. 

I suggest you share something about yourself and use the opportunity to grow emotionally and in self awareness, then trying to pick on a woman. Which also shows something quite alarming about yourself


----------



## CaptSwan

Blystone said:


> OK? You can be sluts and whores all you want, but you can't equate lust with love. Regardless, my reasoning for him being a 7 had more to do with the fact only a 7 would be vain enough to use a quote authored by himself than it did with his experiences with women and "love".


What you say is true, it'd be a catastrophical mistake to equate lust with love. But, my statement was clear; I was madly in love with them. I cared (and still do) care about them all, I love the different nuances and particularities in each of them, I have a genuine concern of what happens with their lives. I don't seek women just to have sex with them, that's pathetic. I seek women who can move me, who inspire me; that's the important thing. Sex is just mechanics; but, sharing with them, understanding them, that's something I'd gladly and happily devote a lifetime to.

Regarding the quote; yes, I penned it, I love how it sounds; and, it's by how I try to live by. I'm a Type 6w7, I'm very secure of my type; and, as you can see, I can post and express my argument without having to use words like "whore" or "slut". May this be a lesson for you; a real man can talk and debate without insulting.


----------



## HellCat

Dalton said:


> My only disagreement is that you say "men" instead of "a lot of men". The rest is wisdom.
> 
> 
> So lil' ENTJ me might have a heart after all? :shocked: :blushed:
> 
> (It was meant to be a jest at @_Blystone_'s poor rationale, not an actual assessment. Of course, the selfie _does_ make me wonder... :wink


You are correct. I meant some not all.

Sorry! 


I know. I took the slightest bit of umbrage to the generalization, only playfully though, because I am a Te people often think is a fucking Nf because of my sensitivity to them. It took years of work and many many books on healing, emotions, therapy. Most of that type on perc, especially the females.... work really hard at being one dimensional and showing how bitchy and hateful they are capable of being.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> Don't be passive aggressive if you cannot handle criticism of the technique. Being rude to someone is an incredibly solipsistic view.


Rude, mean, impolite, call me whichever you like. The fact of the matter is Solipsism is an ideological belief in which one believes nothing outside of oneself is real or knowable; and that has absolutely nothing to do with being rude. 



> I don't care to entangle myself in this farther because it is pointless and derailing Animal's thread. Which will end up in you getting punished. Its not wise.


It's not wise to submit one's inalienable rights to another human being. That doesn't stop you from marching your slave ass to the voting booth every four years.



> I suggest you share something about yourself and use the opportunity to grow emotionally and in self awareness, then trying to pick on a woman.


Excellent use of sophistry, you should be a politician. On a serious note, I don't care if you're male, female, or both, I just genuinely dislike you. 




> Which also shows something quite alarming about yourself


----------



## Blystone

@_CaptSwan_

I used to debate people politely, respectfully, logically; but there comes a point when one realizes the vast majority of other people's beliefs are unsubstantiated and, frankly, don't really matter. Nowadays, I work to further my vision for a virtuous society and pay no attention to the contentions of the masses.

ETA - Your type isn't for me to determine and you very well could be a 6. I just wanted some cheap entertainment and your post was an easy target.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> Rude, mean, impolite, call me whichever you like. The fact of the matter is Solipsism is an ideological belief in which one believes nothing outside of oneself is real or knowable; and that has absolutely nothing to do with being rude.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not wise to submit one's inalienable rights to another human being. That doesn't stop you from marching your slave ass to the voting booth every four years.
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent use of sophistry, you should be a politician. On a serious note, I don't care if you're male, female, or both, I just genuinely dislike you.



I would say it has everything to do with being rude, it justifies it. You called people you do not know sluts and whores. Acting like a toddler on a public forum. If that is not believing only in your own existence, I don't know what is. 

Slave ass? charming. 


So, I assume you are owned by the military? Considering you told captswan, Who is not even American to enlist. 

How does that not make you a slave? 

I would love to be in politics. I would be right wing just so they would finally have a sane female representative and some balance to their party.

You dislike someone you don't even know for disagreeing with you and pointing out your theory of mind is terrible? How mature.


----------



## CaptSwan

Blystone said:


> @_CaptSwan_
> 
> I used to debate people politely, respectfully, logically; but there comes a point when one realizes the vast majority of other people's beliefs are unsubstantiated and, frankly, don't really matter. Nowadays, I work to further my vision for a virtuous society and pay no attention to the contentions of the masses.
> 
> ETA - Your type isn't for me to determine and you very well could be a 6. I just wanted some cheap entertainment and your post was an easy target.


Then, seems I have nothing more to discuss with you. No matter how "stubborn" people might seem, a real man never loses his cool, or lashes out at women like that; it shows the quality of "man" you are (not that your selfie wasn't indication enough). If this is your idea of "entertainment", then, I have nothing useful to learn about you; sad that this is the most entertaining thing you can think of doing. I'd say I pity you; but, it'd imply that I care about you as a human being. You can reply this if you want or not, it's irrelevant to me. And, whatever you think of me when you read this, I wish it returns to you multiplied.

BTW: You should start wearing wifebeaters... given your personality, those would suit you perfectly.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> I would say it has everything to do with being rude, it justifies it. You called people you do not know sluts and whores. Acting like a toddler on a public forum. If that is not believing only in your own existence, I don't know what is.


If I was a Solipsist, I wouldn't be capable of communicating with you. After-all, the only logical conclusion of Solipsism is everything external to the self is an illusion created by one's own mind. 




> So, I assume you are owned by the military?


Not a fucking chance, but if I was I'd be 18x with an Airborne + RASP contract.



> Considering you told captswan, Who is not even American to enlist.


I suggested for Dalton to enlist as 31E because he seems like the kind of guy that would be interested in herding sheeple. 



> How does that not make you a slave?


_
"The most powerful tool of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."_ - Steve Biko




> I would love to be in politics. I would be right wing just so they would finally have a sane female representative and some balance to their party.


Any individual that holds the notion they have a right to inflict their beliefs upon other human beings is certainly insane, and more importantly, evil.



> You dislike someone you don't even know for disagreeing with you and pointing out your theory of mind is terrible? How mature.


It's not about disagreeing with me, I'm not that shallow. I just don't like you; you're like a physical manifestation of Lilith/Hecate.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> If I was a Solipsist, I wouldn't be capable of communicating with you. After-all, the only logical conclusion of Solipsism is everything external to the self is an illusion created by one's own mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not a fucking chance, but if I was I'd be 18x with an Airborne + RASP contract.
> 
> 
> 
> I suggested for Dalton to enlist as 31E because he seems like the kind of guy that would be interested in herding sheeple.
> 
> 
> _
> "The most powerful tool of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."_ - Steve Biko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any individual that holds the notion they have a right to inflict their beliefs upon other human beings is certainly insane, and more importantly, evil.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about disagreeing with me, I'm not that shallow. I just don't like you; you're like a physical manifestation of Lilith/Hecate.


Believe it or not. There is actually a cult up in michigan that believes the same thing. They pray for me to die on the weekends. I could get you in touch with them, theres power in numbers after all. My dad runs it. 


So what your saying is, you are terrified of women with intellect and the ability to form a coherent sentence. Who challenge your weird thinking and childish lashing out? Iron sharpens Iron if I remember my endless bible studies correctly. 

Though to be fair I confused Dalton and captswan, because I only skim boring posts. 


You poor man. You clearly need a lot of healing with these issue. I have seen what it does to men who cannot control their anger with women who won't submit to their madness. 

I feel really bad for your future. It will not be pretty. Keep indulging that issue with self control and insane paranoia, there will be bars in it. In the very least.


----------



## Blystone

CaptSwan said:


> Then, seems I have nothing more to discuss with you. No matter how "stubborn" people might seem, a real man never loses his cool, or lashes out at women like that; it shows the quality of "man" you are (not that your selfie wasn't indication enough).


What's with the white knight syndrome? No wonder you can't form a stable relationship with someone of the opposite sex. Listen, I hold women to the same standards as I hold men, just because they have a vagina doesn't mean their actions and beliefs are any less valuable than a male's. Regardless, if you want to be a boot licking little bitch, that's your choice. I'm just really not into Femdom. 



> If this is your idea of "entertainment", then, I have nothing useful to learn about you; sad that this is the most entertaining thing you can think of doing.


I caught some weird middle eastern virus, if I didn't feel like absolute shit I'd be at the beach with my family right now. 



> I'd say I pity you; but, it'd imply that I care about you as a human being.


Why so mean? :crying:

Oh well, the feeling's mutual. 



> You can reply this if you want or not, it's irrelevant to me. And, whatever you think of me when you read this, I wish it returns to you multiplied.


That made no sense. 



> BTW: You should start wearing wifebeaters... given your personality, those would suit you perfectly.


Wifebeaters have a rather negative connotation, one that I prefer to avoid, hence the name(obviously). I'm actually a fairly nice guy in real life.


----------



## HellCat

Jrs01 or whatever, is that you? Wheres your cape? I am disappointed you are not wearing your cape and wizard hat.


Thank you for the compliment. its such a delight having a weird mystic compare me to the goddess Hecate. 

and here I thought you were a wing nut xtian. Its just plain old envy. 

Aw shucks.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> Believe it or not. There is actually a cult up in michigan that believes the same thing. They pray for me to die on the weekends. I could get you in touch with them, theres power in numbers after all. My dad runs it.


What the fuck? I don't want you dead. Disliking someone =/= wishing death upon them. That's fucking crazy. 



> So what your saying is, you are terrified of women with intellect and the ability to form a coherent sentence.


No. I love intelligent women. I love Animal, she's brilliant. You're just not actually intelligent and your syntax is usually all fucked up. 



> Who challenge your weird thinking and childish lashing out? Iron sharpens Iron if I remember my endless bible studies correctly.


What beliefs of mine have you actually challenged and/or refuted? From what I can recall, our interactions have been redundantly rhetorical. 



> Though to be fair I confused Dalton and captswan, because I only skim boring posts.


We both know if you found my posts so boring you wouldn't bother replying to them. 



> You poor man. You clearly need a lot of healing with these issue. I have seen what it does to men who cannot control their anger with women who won't submit to their madness.


 What the actual fuck. Daddy issues no doubt. 



> I feel really bad for your future. It will not be pretty. Keep indulging that issue with self control and insane paranoia, there will be bars in it. In the very least.


I'd sooner die than be locked in a cage at the behest of dumb stupid animals like you.


----------



## Animal

SX Confession:
I used to wonder why people who were already in a relationship were driven to socialize.

I would have thoughts like: Why are they on facebook? Why do they post on forums? Why are they out at the bar talking? Why go to parties?

I could understand socializing with the SO, going hiking, swimming, inviting friends along.. but big social gatherings (apart from business ventures) made no sense to me.

I'm still not sure if it makes sense. I do have a band to promote and friends to keep in touch with, however, so I can understand facebook and the like. But .. bars and parties when you're already in a relationship? Not sure if I'll ever understand. 
(That is not to imply that I would personally seek a relationship at bars or parties - but just that I couldn't imagine what else those people were doing there, when they were apparently..aimless.)


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> No, teasing everyone and name calling makes you a troll.


I think the term asshole is more fitting. I can't tell jokes and I can't troll, it's just the way I am. 



> It is the name calling that makes you subjective and look incredibly Fi.


Well, I'm Ni-Te, so... 



> Also trollish, I don't believe you do it in anger.


It's hard to be angry at people that have no significant influence on my life. 



> I think you do it to throw people off for your entertainment.


I don't do it to throw people off, but I absolutely do it for entertainment. Few things are funnier than egotistical fair weather pussies getting defensive on a public forum. 



> Also you seem like a 7w8 with the playful, harsh trolling and teasing people you do.


My brother is an ESTP 7. We're nothing alike. I'm just a dick to a lot of people online. I've come to the determination if an individual can't be reasoned with, mocking them is the next best thing. 



> If you knew much about the enneagram, surely you realize you are a head type. Eights, aren't so.. involved mentally.


Type 5 would be the only logical choice, and I'm not a 5. 



> What is a luciferian cocksucker, and how does you studying the occult make you all knowing compared to them?


I'm not. They're infinitely more aware and intelligent than I am, but reality isn't complex. Everything breaks down to simple fundamental principles. 



> I think you play this anger with society up


I genuinely hate Statist cocksuckers, their purposeful ignorance allows the enslavement of mankind. 



> to stir people and study their reactions.


I already understand people on a fundamental level. I have no need to study them. 



> That was too crude for my taste. I would think you were capable of not being so trashy, even in a conversation with the Whore of Babylon.


Would Lady Gaga having fluorescent vomit thrown up on her have been more suitable?


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> I think the term asshole is more fitting. I can't tell jokes and I can't troll, it's just the way I am.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I'm Ni-Te, so...
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard to be angry at people that have no significant influence on my life.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't do it to throw people off, but I absolutely do it for entertainment. Few things are funnier than egotistical fair weather pussies getting defensive on a public forum.
> 
> 
> 
> My brother is an ESTP 7. We're nothing alike. I'm just a dick to a lot of people online. I've come to the determination if an individual can't be reasoned with, mocking them is the next best thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Type 5 would be the only logical choice, and I'm not a 5.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not. They're infinitely more aware and intelligent than I am, but reality isn't complex. Everything breaks down to simple fundamental principles.
> 
> 
> 
> I genuinely hate Statist cocksuckers, their purposeful ignorance allows the enslavement of mankind.
> 
> 
> 
> I already understand people on a fundamental level. I have no need to study them.
> 
> 
> 
> Would Lady Gaga having fluorescent vomit thrown up on her have been more suitable?



Now thats just below the belt. @ the lady gaga comment. 

What is a statist? 

Why do you hide what your really like Minotaur? Ashamed of it or just use this place to torment people and blow off steam?

I would rather be called hitler.

Also sevens can be incredibly cerebral. I thought you were proficient in the enneagram? Its a psychological flaw, not a personality description.


----------



## Dalton

Because it's off-topic, I'm putting this all in a spoiler.

* *






Blystone said:


> I prefer ENTJ anyway, asshat. As for the pic, it's over a year old; from back when I was dating my best friend.
> 
> OT: Are you ready for the FEMA camps? I hear the Army is recruiting if you'd rather be the shepherd and not the sheep:
> 
> Internment / Resettlement Specialist (31E) | goarmy.com


You've activated my monster's special ability!!!
* *














What's the point in telling me the age of the pic or the fact that you were dating your best friend? Why do you call me a sheep? Why are you trying to use this as a platform to criticize the military?



Blystone said:


> Comeback? What are you, 12?


:laughing: Do you _not_ realize that "what are you, 12" is a clichéd _comeback_?



Blystone said:


> I suggested for Dalton to enlist as 31E because he seems like the kind of guy that would be interested in herding sheeple.
> _"The most powerful tool of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed."_ - Steve Biko


Then you fail to understand me on a very fundamental level. I'd rather die than order others to be mindless minions, and I'm not exaggerating. Even if it would lead to an otherwise "perfect" world, a perfect world is not full of idiots. I don't pursue "the best I can get". When it comes to things that matter, I refuse to take anything less than perfect.


> I already understand people on a fundamental level. I have no need to study them.


Oops, I guess I'm wrong, you're right. Am I even a 1? Am I like... a 4w6?  Please, I need your help! You understand me better than I do!



Blystone said:


> I'd sooner die than be locked in a cage at the behest of *dumb stupid animals like you*.


And that's how you know it's JSRS01.



MNiS said:


> CaptSwan, I like you as a person but I don't think you should be telling others on the topic of what is "a real man". Especially telling someone to wear wifebeaters because that's what they are is particularly snide and uncalled for.


 @_CaptSwan_ The phrase "real man" is archaic. I'd rather we say "honorable", or other similar adjective, because in my eyes, the only criteria for being a "real man" is a specific biological make-up.



Blystone said:


> Oh, I got it. Hence the "I'm actually a fairly nice guy in real life."
> 
> Here on the internet, we all have the luxury of hiding behind screen names and pseudo-intellectualism. There's no sense in pretending in accountability when there is none. Do feel free to dox me if you dislike me so much.


Along this line of reasoning, it's perfectly fine to murder innocent people, _as long as you aren't held accountable. _I find it disappointing that your view of morality allows you to behave like this.



Blystone said:


> So why waste your time on a cretin like me? Kind of stupid, don't you think?


One of my ways of seeing life: The squeaky wheel gets greased. If that doesn't work, remove it. If it refuses to go away, get the pliers and blowtorch.



Blystone said:


> I genuinely hate Statist cocksuckers, their purposeful ignorance allows the enslavement of mankind.


I don't think you understand the awesomeness. This might change your mind: 







Back to the original topic, then!

*Rant:
*You know what sucks? Airplane food. You know what else sucks? Everything, or at least that's the way things look through the eyes of depression.

I never cared about wealth, my body, or fame, except to fulfill my basic needs or use them as a means to achieve my desires. This upcoming semester, I will begin studying as an official business major. Why the _fuck_ did I choose business? I guess I wanted to choose a career with a "bright future", one that would bring enough income so that I would not have to worry about stupid things like "Will I starve," or "will I be evicted". I never really looked at it as a possible career until this year, when I began thinking of business as a blank slate to build whatever I wish. What _do_ I want to build? I wish I knew.

I have fixated on career paths, just to decide that it was hopeless. I can't succeed in the music industry. It's too competitive and I'm not good enough. I can't succeed in psychology. People drive me crazy, research is boring, and I need at least a Master's degree to do anything.

I guess I look at a career in the same way I look at love, or perhaps _everything_: There is ONE thing out there for me. I need it. I must find it. Yet it seems impossible to find. The variety of possible careers and people to consider seems incomprehensible. There is only one ideal. I have a fear of falsely believing that I've found what I'm seeking. It already happens to me more often than it should. I fear it, but once I start to feel it, I lose control as I enter some insane romantic daze. All or nothing. I wish I could aptly describe how it is when I attempt to restrain myself, or rather how I live every day.

How do _other_ people see the world? I guess that's one of things I want out of love: to meld minds, trade eyes, and become something more. Even when I had my two best friends (and only friends, because I reject non-intimate friendships), I felt like I was missing someone. Of course, it's expected that a heterosexual male would want an attractive female with him, but it's not the feelings that convinced me I'm sexual. It was the reason behind avoiding intimacy, that I could spend abnormal amounts of time focusing on my sexual magnetism, but never approach anybody, because I knew that they would have some flaw which would jeopardize the intimacy.

Eventually, I'm going to have to decide on a career (if not for my entire life, at least five-year blocks), because I need to survive long enough to find whatever it is. I must be financially stable, so that I can actually search. I wonder whether my Sp is stronger, because of all this worrying, but I guess it makes sense that an Sx/So would worry about Sp things when Sp things are about to implode. (i.e. I currently have no money.)

I also wonder whether the sexual instinct might contribute to the ease in which I share my supposed "secrets" and innermost thoughts, with total strangers nonetheless. Maybe I would share my feelings too, if I could only identify them more often.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> Now thats just below the belt. @ the lady gaga comment.


Kesha and Gaga embody the archetypical image of the whore of Babylon. If you dislike it, you should reject the title. There really isn't anything beautiful or admirable about Lilith. 



> What is a statist?



  
*Stat·ism* _n._ The practice or doctrine of giving a centralized government control over economic planning and policy.




Anyone that believes a human being is fit to rule and/or oversee the lives and interactions of other human beings. 



> Why do you hide what your really like Minotaur? Ashamed of it or just use this place to torment people and blow off steam?


Do you think I have some deep dark secrets or something? I don't. What you see is what you get. 



> Also sevens can be incredibly cerebral.


If by cerebral you mean whimsical, scatter brained, and mentally volatile then sure, sevens are certainly incredibly cerebral. 

Like I said, 5 is the only logical choice if we're going to judge me by my behavior and motivations. Everything about 7 is antithetical to who I am. 



> I thought you were proficient in the enneagram?


It has its uses, but it's a terribly flawed system. 




> Its a psychological flaw, not a personality description.


Psychology and personality pretty much fit hand in glove.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> Kesha and Gaga embody the archetypical imagine of the whore of Babylon. If you dislike it, you should reject the title. There really isn't anything beautiful or admirable about Lilith.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Stat·ism* _n._ The practice or doctrine of giving a centralized government control over economic planning and policy.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone that believes a human being is fit to rule and/or oversee the lives and interactions of other human beings.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think I have some deep dark secrets or something? I don't. What you see is what you get.
> 
> 
> 
> If by cerebral you mean whimsical, scatter brained, and mentally volatile then sure, sevens are certainly incredibly cerebral.
> 
> Like I said, 5 is the only logical choice if we're going to judge me by my behavior and motivations. Everything about 7 is antithetical to who I am.
> 
> 
> 
> It has its uses, but it's a terribly flawed system.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Psychology and personality pretty much fit hand in glove.


No. Sevens are not whimsical, 7w6 maybe. 7w8 are hard asses. Tough as nails. You like animal, Ask her about this if you actually want to be educated beyond those faulty stereotypes. 

No. Personality description is nothing like your deepest psychological wounding.

No. I am just curious what you are like when you aren't fighting with people on Perc. Peoples humanity makes me curious.

Also, I am nothing like Lilith or the Whore of babylon. You are going by an immediate prejudice and making assumptions. Everyone does, I cannot name how many times I have been called the aforementioned or a succubus. I make light of it because it is someones subjective opinion and has no bearing on who I really am at my core. Aside from my knowledge of the supernatural. Hecate, yes I agree. I hear that a lot. But as far as being a soulless man eating monster. No. I actually strive to heal people I meet, not break them. I got my reputation because of my frozen heart, not being amoral and an overly seductive disgusting attention whore. I am the antithesis of that actually.

There is also absolutely nothing wrong with women being comfortable with their sexuality.

I just think the ones who shout about it and have no class, are tacky. 

I teach pole and burlesque sometimes. Let me guess, that is offensive too? 

If so, Why? Its an art.


----------



## Blystone

Dalton said:


> You've activated my monster's special ability!!!


You must be some kind of weird nerd thing. Social reject? Drama club? Band camp? ROTC(lol)?



> What's the point in telling me the age of the pic or the fact that you were dating your best friend?


Context. Gotta look good for the ladies. 



> Why do you call me a sheep?


Blindly following your owners plans to form a new world order with a sub 1billion population makes you a sheep. 



> Why are you trying to use this as a platform to criticize the military?


I readily relate to soldiers who genuinely believe what they're doing is just and honorable. Unfortunately, they're suckers and they're fighting for the benefit of obscenely rich and evil men. 

“Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.” - Henry Kissinger


> :laughing: Do you _not_ realize that "what are you, 12" is a clichéd _comeback_?


Yeah, it is. 



> Then you fail to understand me on a very fundamental level. I'd rather die than order others to be mindless minions, and I'm not exaggerating. Even if it would lead to an otherwise "perfect" world, a perfect world is not full of idiots. I don't pursue "the best I can get". When it comes to things that matter, I refuse to take anything less than perfect.


You say this, yet you blissfully perpetuate a system of debt and death against billions of innocent human beings. What do you do to combat the parasites that mercilessly abuse mankind like the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Bushes, Windsors, et al? Nothing. 



> Oops, I guess I'm wrong, you're right. Am I even a 1? Am I like... a 4w6?  Please, I need your help!


I don't care.



> You understand me better than I do!


Highly unlikely.




> And that's how you know it's JSRS01.


Do you think it's a secret or something? Lol.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> No. Sevens are not whimsical, 7w6 maybe. 7w8 are hard asses. Tough as nails. You like animal, Ask her about this if you actually want to be educated beyond those faulty stereotypes.


I reject the unsubstantiated beliefs of both wing theory and Fauvreian tri-type. 7s are hardly tough. A lot of them act tough, like bona-fide bad asses, but they're mostly bark with very little bite. Adam Lambert(7) is not a badass. Chris Costa(11) is most definitely a badass. 



> No. Personality description is nothing like your deepest psychological wounding.


Given your daddy issues, I can see how you would view it that way. 



> No. I am just curious what you are like when you aren't fighting with people on Perc. Peoples humanity makes me curious.


I'm just a regular guy. Nothing too special about me. 




> I teach pole and burlesque sometimes. Let me guess, that is offensive too?


Depends on the context. I wouldn't want my wife doing that kind of shit in front of other men. If your single and doing it for money, that's kind of like pimping yourself out. Degrading? Probably. Offensive? No. But being offended is fucking bullshit anyway.


----------



## MNiS

Hm, now I can see why people don't like you. Anyway, I think you're a blowhard who's trying to hard to be an 8. Might I suggest *2* for you? 6 doesn't seem to be your thing and you pretty much just insulted every 8 on the planet with that stupid Romanesque quote by Kissinger.


----------



## mimesis

Blystone said:


> Kesha and Gaga embody the archetypical imagine of the whore of Babylon. If you dislike it, you should reject the title. There really isn't anything beautiful or admirable about Lilith.


I think Lilith is badass. 













> *Stat·ism* _n._ The practice or doctrine of giving a centralized government control over economic planning and policy.


oh dear. I've been waiting when you start talking about fresh milk. You are so predictable.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> I reject the unsubstantiated beliefs of both wing theory and Fauvreian tri-type. 7s are hardly tough. A lot of them act tough, like bona-fide bad asses, but they're mostly bark with very little bite. Adam Lambert(7) is not a badass. Chris Costa(11) is most definitely a badass.
> 
> 
> 
> Given your daddy issues, I can see how you would view it that way.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just a regular guy. Nothing too special about me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on the context. I wouldn't want my wife doing that kind of shit in front of other men. If your single and doing it for money, that's kind of like pimping yourself out. Degrading? Probably. Offensive? No. But being offended is fucking bullshit anyway.




How can you reject tritype, this is not a science. It is a spirituality. There is no way to substantiate the inner workings of the spirit. Also, men are made up of head, heart and guts so tritype makes a fucking lot of sense, I would say. 

Still, you have the mocking cynicism of a 7. Your typing thread troll work was outstanding. 



I actually don't have daddy issues. I forgive him and wish I could reach him desperately and pull him out of this insane hubris and paranoia, but his mind is gone. Hes king Lear, surrounded by people who worship him for his flattery and refuse to point out his madness. Its very sad. I laugh it at because there is no other response to be had. If you can't laugh at something it owns you.




I teach it to women. 


To empower them, because so many are timid and insecure. I find when they are that way they rely more on being passive aggressive and manipulative. Encouraging them to have boldness and speak up, improves their lives I have been told. If you truly are Te/Ni , you would understood the need for confidence.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> Hm, now I can see why people don't like you. Anyway, I think you're a blowhard who's trying to hard to be an 8. Might I suggest *2* for you? 6 doesn't seem to be your thing and you pretty much just insulted every 8 on the planet with that stupid Romanesque quote by Kissinger.


Competition is a sin, motherfucker.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> Competition is a sin, motherfucker.


I would disagree. I think there's no greater effort than in trust-busting the "old money" who have fallen to corruption. That keeps people honest and there's no reason to preserve structures like that. Heck, I'd even lead the effort. Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't swear at me.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> How can you reject tritype, this is not a science. It is a spirituality. There is no way to substantiate the inner workings of the spirit. Also, men are made up of head, heart and guts so tritype makes a fucking lot of sense, I would say.


No. Human beings are composed of Fire, Air, Earth, Water; just like everything else in the changeable world. Are you not familiar with my work? 
http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...izardry-fact-checking-thread.html#post6861081



> Still, you have the mocking cynicism of a 7. Your typing thread troll work was outstanding.


Seriously? I wasn't fucking trolling and I'm not a 7. 




> If you truly are Te/Ni , you would understood the need for confidence.



I've only been insecure once in my life, so no, I don't understand the _need_ for confidence. Confidence is in my blood, I know what I'm capable and what I'm incapable of. Accurately discerning reality is the greatest gift I have and I do a damn good job at it.


----------



## MNiS

LeoCat said:


> I teach it to women.
> 
> 
> To empower them, because so many are timid and insecure. I find when they are that way they rely more on being passive aggressive and manipulative. Encouraging them to have boldness and speak up, improves their lives I have been told. If you truly are Te/Ni , you would understood the need for confidence.


Fan-freaking-tastic. Instilling more confidence in women only benefits everyone. Especially men.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> I would disagree. I think there's no greater effort than in trust-busting the "old money" who have fallen to corruption. That keeps people honest and there's no reason to preserve structures like that. Heck, I'd even lead the effort. Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't swear at me.


So you dislike the robber-barons and their Big Businesses, but you're down with their coercive control system. Makes total sense; _pure_ logic.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> So you dislike the robber-barons and their Big Businesses, but you're down with their coercive control system. Makes total sense; _pure_ logic.


You know, not all northerners were crooks. Only the ones the southerners termed robber-barons; they were crooks by definition. Similarly not all corporations are corrupt as that really depends on how honest and fair the board of directors are. Plus, I am for sure against coercive control and I believe that people should be honest and direct. Where are you coming up with this stuff about my person?


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> You know, not all northerners were crooks. Only the ones the southerners termed robber-barons; they were crooks by definition. Similarly not all corporations are corrupt as that really depends on how honest and fair the board of directors are. Plus, I am for sure against coercive control and I believe that people should be honest and direct. Where are you coming up with this stuff about my person?


So you're an Anarchist?


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> So you're an Anarchist?


No, I'm not an anarchist either. I've never really put a label on my views on society so I don't think there's a term for it yet. However, I do believe in the vast majority of Socionics with the Enneagram and recognize both as very good ways to organize a society.

Some use the term 'social engineering' but I'd avoid that label as it's a bit off-putting for a lot of people.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> No, I'm not an anarchist either. I've never really put a label on my views on society so I don't think there's a term for it yet. However, I do believe in the vast majority of Socionics with the Enneagram and recognize both as very good ways to organize a society.
> 
> Some use the term 'social engineering' but I'd avoid that label as it's a bit off-putting for a lot of people.


- Claims to be _"for sure against coercive control"_.
- Doesn't reject the state's institutionalized use of coercion and violence. 


The only saving grace of people like you is your beliefs are totally irrelevant because you're incapable of manifesting them in reality.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> - Claims to be _"for sure against coercive control"_.
> - Doesn't reject the state's institutionalized use of coercion and violence.


Non-sequitur to the extreme.



> The only saving grace of people like you is your beliefs are totally irrelevant because you're incapable of manifesting them in reality.


That's what you think.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> Non-sequitur to the extreme.


Call it a non-sequitur all you want, the state is an institutionalization of violence and coercion. The state seeks only to prey upon the weak and the innocent for the benefit of the elite. If you don't outright reject the illegitimacy of state coercion, you are acquiescent to it and willingly comply with a system of debt and death hellbent on enslaving the human race. 





> That's what you think.


Until I'm living under whatever fucked up idea of a socialized paradise you have thought up, I'm going to continue to focus on the real threats to my, and everyone else's, freedom.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> Call it a non-sequitur all you want, the state is an institutionalization of violence and coercion. The state seeks only to prey upon the weak and the innocent for the benefit of the elite. If you don't outright reject the illegitimacy of state coercion, you are acquiescent to it and willingly comply with a system of debt and death hellbent on enslaving the human race.


Well, I'm just saying that the way I see government isn't about institutionalized repression and stepping all over the powerless to make the elites richer. It's more about doing what's fair for everyone. That's why there are some seemingly bizarre regulations but are placed there for a purpose.



Blystone said:


> Until I'm living under whatever fucked up idea of a socialized paradise you have thought up, I'm going to continue to focus on the real threats to my, and everyone else's, freedom.


Nonono. I'm not saying that society is completely homogenous. That would be so bland and boring. I'm saying that some people really like the ideas put forth and want to form communities or even cities with the ideals. That's really all they are, ideals put forth.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> Well, I'm just saying that the way I see government isn't about institutionalized repression and stepping all over the powerless to make the elites richer. It's more about doing what's fair for everyone. That's why there are some seemingly bizarre regulations but are placed there for a purpose.


How is government funded? Through taxation. What happens in the event an individual doesn't pay his or her taxes? Men with guns abduct that individual and lock them in a cage. Can an individual choose to not pay taxes without the loss of his life, liberty, or property? No. 

Succinctly, taxation is theft. Theft is immoral. The state relies on theft for sustenance. The state is immoral.

Where's the fairness? Where's the morality? Where's the virtue? There is none. It's a system by the elite, for the elite. The sooner you accept that fact, the sooner you can free yourself of the mental chains they so dearly want you to cling to. 





> Nonono. I'm not saying that society is completely homogenous. That would be so bland and boring. I'm saying that some people really like the ideas put forth and want to form communities or even cities with the ideals. That's really all they are, ideals put forth.


If everyone accepted the non-aggression principle we could all live harmoniously, in a peaceful society; regardless of economic, religious, or social views. Natural law would serve as the force which governs the actions and conduct of mankind.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> How is government funded? Through taxation. What happens in the event an individual doesn't pay his or her taxes? Men with guns abduct that individual and lock them in a cage. Can an individual choose to not pay taxes without the loss of his life, liberty, or property? No.
> 
> Succinctly, taxation is theft. Theft is immoral. The state relies on theft for sustenance. The state is immoral.


Well if you don't like paying your taxes then you enjoy the services of the government without wanting to pay for them. You're being completely unrealistic.



Blystone said:


> Where's the fairness? Where's the morality? Where's the virtue? There is none. It's a system by the elite, for the elite. The sooner you accept that fact, the sooner you can free yourself of the mental chains they so dearly want you to cling to.


So you don't believe in upward social mobility? I'm guessing you do so I wouldn't vote Republican if I were you then.



Blystone said:


> If everyone accepted the non-aggression principle we could all live harmoniously, in a peaceful society; regardless of economic, religious, or social views. Natural law would serve as the force which governs the actions and conduct of mankind.


Natural law? I'm assuming by Natural Law you mean Natural Law Theory and not the laws of nature. If so, then yes, I would be in complete agreeance with you.


----------



## CaptSwan

Dalton said:


> Because it's off-topic, I'm putting this all in a spoiler.
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You've activated my monster's special ability!!!
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's the point in telling me the age of the pic or the fact that you were dating your best friend? Why do you call me a sheep? Why are you trying to use this as a platform to criticize the military?
> 
> 
> :laughing: Do you _not_ realize that "what are you, 12" is a clichéd _comeback_?
> 
> 
> Then you fail to understand me on a very fundamental level. I'd rather die than order others to be mindless minions, and I'm not exaggerating. Even if it would lead to an otherwise "perfect" world, a perfect world is not full of idiots. I don't pursue "the best I can get". When it comes to things that matter, I refuse to take anything less than perfect.
> 
> Oops, I guess I'm wrong, you're right. Am I even a 1? Am I like... a 4w6?  Please, I need your help! You understand me better than I do!
> 
> 
> And that's how you know it's JSRS01.
> 
> @_CaptSwan_ The phrase "real man" is archaic. I'd rather we say "honorable", or other similar adjective, because in my eyes, the only criteria for being a "real man" is a specific biological make-up.
> 
> 
> Along this line of reasoning, it's perfectly fine to murder innocent people, _as long as you aren't held accountable. _I find it disappointing that your view of morality allows you to behave like this.
> 
> 
> One of my ways of seeing life: The squeaky wheel gets greased. If that doesn't work, remove it. If it refuses to go away, get the pliers and blowtorch.
> 
> 
> I don't think you understand the awesomeness. This might change your mind:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Back to the original topic, then!
> 
> *Rant:
> *You know what sucks? Airplane food. You know what else sucks? Everything, or at least that's the way things look through the eyes of depression.
> 
> I never cared about wealth, my body, or fame, except to fulfill my basic needs or use them as a means to achieve my desires. This upcoming semester, I will begin studying as an official business major. Why the _fuck_ did I choose business? I guess I wanted to choose a career with a "bright future", one that would bring enough income so that I would not have to worry about stupid things like "Will I starve," or "will I be evicted". I never really looked at it as a possible career until this year, when I began thinking of business as a blank slate to build whatever I wish. What _do_ I want to build? I wish I knew.
> 
> I have fixated on career paths, just to decide that it was hopeless. I can't succeed in the music industry. It's too competitive and I'm not good enough. I can't succeed in psychology. People drive me crazy, research is boring, and I need at least a Master's degree to do anything.
> 
> I guess I look at a career in the same way I look at love, or perhaps _everything_: There is ONE thing out there for me. I need it. I must find it. Yet it seems impossible to find. The variety of possible careers and people to consider seems incomprehensible. There is only one ideal. I have a fear of falsely believing that I've found what I'm seeking. It already happens to me more often than it should. I fear it, but once I start to feel it, I lose control as I enter some insane romantic daze. All or nothing. I wish I could aptly describe how it is when I attempt to restrain myself, or rather how I live every day.
> 
> How do _other_ people see the world? I guess that's one of things I want out of love: to meld minds, trade eyes, and become something more. Even when I had my two best friends (and only friends, because I reject non-intimate friendships), I felt like I was missing someone. Of course, it's expected that a heterosexual male would want an attractive female with him, but it's not the feelings that convinced me I'm sexual. It was the reason behind avoiding intimacy, that I could spend abnormal amounts of time focusing on my sexual magnetism, but never approach anybody, because I knew that they would have some flaw which would jeopardize the intimacy.
> 
> Eventually, I'm going to have to decide on a career (if not for my entire life, at least five-year blocks), because I need to survive long enough to find whatever it is. I must be financially stable, so that I can actually search. I wonder whether my Sp is stronger, because of all this worrying, but I guess it makes sense that an Sx/So would worry about Sp things when Sp things are about to implode. (i.e. I currently have no money.)
> 
> I also wonder whether the sexual instinct might contribute to the ease in which I share my supposed "secrets" and innermost thoughts, with total strangers nonetheless. Maybe I would share my feelings too, if I could only identify them more often.


Regarding what you wrote in the spoiler; agreed 100%.

You're not the only one dealing with what you're going through. I face a similar situation as well and, it can be daunting as well. As much as I hate to say this; but, I'm glad I'm not the only one who asks this very same questions.


----------



## HellCat

CaptSwan said:


> Regarding what you wrote in the spoiler; agreed 100%.
> 
> You're not the only one dealing with what you're going through. I face a similar situation as well and, it can be daunting as well. As much as I hate to say this; but, I'm glad I'm not the only one who asks this very same questions.



I think its wisdom to want a career you are passionate over. Instead of one simply guaranteed to make money. Time is never a guarantee, We often forget nothing is guaranteed. 

Me too. Only mine is more of a "When will you fuck up and disrespect me to the point I will never respect you again inevitable feeling I get" Not so much a flaw. More breaking that very fragile trust. 


From Zen pencils.com to illustrate my point on career. 

ZEN PENCILS » 98. ALAN WATTS: What if money was no object?
ZEN PENCILS » 16. STEVE JOBS: Your time is limited


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> Well if you don't like paying your taxes then you enjoy the services of the government without wanting to


No one _chooses_ to pay taxes. Everyone is _forced_ to pay taxes. It's not a choice, it's coercion. 




> pay for them. You're being completely unrealistic.


No._ You're_ being unrealistic. The state doesn't provide any legitimate services that the free market couldn't provide if given the opportunity. I don't want state services, I don't want criminals to steal my money, and I sure as hell don't want to be a subject to a fucking ruler. 





> So you don't believe in upward social mobility? I'm guessing you do so I wouldn't vote Republican if I were you then.


You're not getting it. I refuse to vote. I refuse to submit my inalienable god-given rights to another human being. _No one_ has a right to rule me, or anyone else. Natural law applies equally and indiscriminately to every human being. No human being can grant himself a "right" that other human beings don't also posses. 





> Natural law? I'm assuming by Natural Law you mean Natural Law Theory and not the laws of nature. If so, then yes, I would be in complete agreeance with you.


Natural law, as in the philosophical position that human beings are born with specific, inalienable, rights. Such as the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> No one _chooses_ to pay taxes. Everyone is _forced_ to pay taxes. It's not a choice, it's coercion.


I understand where you're coming from but _come on_. The US Revolution ended over 200 years ago. The Brits lost and there's no need to continue harping on old rhetoric.



Blystone said:


> No._ You're_ being unrealistic. The state doesn't provide any legitimate service that the free market couldn't provide if given the opportunity. I don't want state services, I don't want criminals to steal my money, and I sure as hell don't want to a subject to a fucking ruler.


... you're just being completely ridiculous now. Private fire and police forces have been tried and they both fail spectacularly. The same goes for roads unless you want a toll booth every 100 feet like on the drive to Tj. I don't want a despot to rule over me either so stop accusing me of things I don't even believe in.



Blystone said:


> You're not getting it. I refuse to vote. I refuse to submit my inalienable god-given rights to another human being. _No one_ has a right to rule me, or anyone else. Natural law applies equally and indiscriminately to every human being. No human being can grant himself a "right" that other human beings don't also posses.


Then you're a part of the problem and not the solution. If you don't want to be a part of it and refuse to participate in a Federated democracy then don't. However, don't get angry at me about it as that's not my fault you refuse to vote.



Blystone said:


> Natural law, as in the philosophical position that human beings are born with specific, inalienable, rights. Such as the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.


Uh huh. Any healthy 8 would recognize you for what you are. Drop the anger, you'll live a healthier life.


----------



## Dalton

Blystone said:


> I've only been insecure once in my life...


...and that period of insecurity never ended. :tongue:

At this point, it's really hard to take you seriously. I mean, you're a smart individual. You know that it's pointless to argue/debate with "dumb, stupid animals", yet you're on this forum, doing just that. :laughing:

If you really hate people and want to create your own form of government (or anarchy), I recommend you find some uninhabited area in Alaska and conveniently "fail" to tell anybody you're there. Start up hydroponics so you can keep tree cover, as to not attract attention from government satellites, perhaps set up hydroelectric generators at a river or stream, and live as a hermit. You won't need to deal with teh sheeplez.



Blystone said:


> No._ You're_ being unrealistic. The state doesn't provide any legitimate service that the free market couldn't provide if given the opportunity. I don't want state services, I don't want criminals to steal my money, and I sure as hell don't want to a subject to a fucking ruler.


You can't trust contracted police, because they can be bought out by those with more money and an intent to harm you. The idea of a non-aggression pact is bonkers. :crazy: You need a government, otherwise people who don't have families or hired hands to protect them will be unfairly subjected to theft and other crimes.



> You're not getting it. I refuse to vote. I refuse to submit my inalienable god-given rights to another human being.


You're too concerned with your own pride. This logic is analogous to a captor giving you the option to choose a softer punishment or a more severe, and you refuse to choose either. It's going to hurt you either way, might as well vote for the candidate who hurts less.



> _No one_ has a right to rule me, or anyone else. Natural law applies equally and indiscriminately to every human being. No human being can grant himself a "right" that other human beings don't also posses.


Correct, but if these political issues are so important, why are you sitting here debating with "dumb stupid animals", instead of making your ideal world a reality?



> Natural law, as in the philosophical position that human beings are born with specific, inalienable, rights. Such as the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.


Remember that before the United States existed, the phrase was "life, liberty, & property." If you're going to reference political philosophy by John Locke, you ought to do it right, unless you're intending to give respects to the "Founding Fathers" of the system which you loathe.

Also, your Kissinger quote was incorrect. He only said a portion of the sentence, but you're intelligent enough to know that already, you clever lil' troll. :wink: We dumb stupid animals are incapable of fact-checking, after all.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> I understand where you're coming from but _come on_. The US Revolution ended over 200 years ago. The Brits lost and there's no need to continue harping on old rhetoric.


Taxation is theft. Theft is immoral. If you support taxation, you support theft. If you support theft, you're immoral. 




> ... you're just being completely ridiculous now. Private fire and police forces have been tried and they both fail spectacularly.


A. A simple Google search will show private firefighters occupations to be on the rise.

B. Police don't serve you, nor do they have an obligation to protect you. 



> I don't want a despot to rule over me either so stop accusing me of things I don't even believe in.


They already do. You can deny reality all you want, but you cannot deny the consequences of denying reality. 



> Then you're a part of the problem and not the solution. If you don't want to be a part of it and refuse to participate in a Federated democracy then don't. However, don't get angry at me about it as that's not my fault you refuse to vote.


No, you're the problem. You support and willingly fund a criminal organization so that you may inflict your beliefs upon innocent human beings through the coercive nature of the state. 

PS: The United States of America was founded as a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. Regardless, what you truly support is Fascism. 




> Uh huh. Any healthy 8 would recognize you for what you are, a common thug and nothing more. I won't be responding to any more of your replies now.


- Adheres to the Non-Aggression principle.
- Gets called a thug by a Statist. 

I'm not sure if you're just stupid, or if the cognitive dissonance is so strong that you have no other choice but to run away.


----------



## mimesis

Blystone said:


> Taxation is theft. Theft is immoral. If you support taxation, you support theft. If you support theft, you're immoral. .


Lol! I bet you never had a job in your life.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> I'm not sure if you're just stupid, or if the cognitive dissonance is so strong that you have no other choice but to run away.


I'm not responding except for this part. Listen, you and I don't think anything alike. There is no dissonance and my views that I've espoused are my true beliefs. If you can't accept that then you can kindly leave this conversation and don't let the door hit you on your way out.


----------



## Blystone

[No message]


----------



## Blystone

mimesis said:


> Lol! I bet you never had a job in your life.


How much are you willing to bet and do you have a paypal account?


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> I'm not responding except for this part. Listen, you and I don't think anything alike. There is no dissonance and my views that I've espoused are my true beliefs. If you can't accept that then you can kindly leave this conversation and don't let the door hit you on your way out.


Fuck off. You believe in the subjugation of the human race under the state. You're evil.


----------



## MNiS

@_Blystone_ - Do you day trade for a living and are pissed about having to pay capital gains? Get a real job you parasite!  Anyway, seriously. I happily pay my capital gains tax when I have any to declare as I see it as paying into a system that allows one to profit from brainpower. Otherwise show some respect. You seem like a pretty chill guy otherwise.



Blystone said:


> Fuck off. You believe in the subjugation of the human race under the state. You're evil.


I don't believe in the subjugation of anyone under anything. Sheesh man, why do you have such an allergic reaction to the idea of social conventions and the social contract? You and I live within the bounds of society and all of the implications that come with it.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> @_Blystone_ - Do you day trade for a living and are pissed about having to pay capital gains? Get a real job you leech!  Anyway, seriously. I happily pay my capital gains tax when I have any to declare as I see as paying into a system that allows one to profit from brainpower. Show some respect. You remind me of an annoying someone I interacted with last year who felt entitled to everything and everyone.


You want me to respect you? How about you respect me and every other poor bastard you willfully subject to state tyranny. You're a Statist, so unless that changes, you and I are diametrically opposed, and I am more than pleased in knowing the elite don't like you anymore than I do. 





> I don't believe in the subjugation of anyone under anything. Sheesh man, why do you have such an allergic reaction to the idea of social conventions and the social contract? You and I live within the bounds of society and all of the implications of it.


There is no social contract. A contract is by _definition_ an agreement between two or more consenting parties. I don't consent to your contract.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> You want me to respect you? How about you respect me and every other poor bastard you willfully subject to state tyranny. You're a Statist, so unless that changes, you and I are diametrically opposed, and I am more than pleased in knowing the elite don't like you anymore than I do.


No, I meant show some respect to people in general. Not just me, as we're all pretty intelligent in the Enneagram and Socionics forum. Also, the elites don't hate you or me. In fact you'd be surprised how accepting the upper levels of society really are.



> There is no social contract. A contract is by _definition_ an agreement between two or more consenting parties. I don't consent to your contract.


Okay, well then I guess we'll just to agree to disagree.


----------



## mimesis

Blystone said:


> How much are you willing to bet and do you have paypal account?


Oh yeah, like you are helping worthy students with a genuine desire to be enlightened, right?

Shouldn't have tried that. You thought you could get away with it and impress people. Which was enough telling for me where you are coming from, tough guy.


----------



## Animal

Blystone said:


> PS: The United States of America was founded as a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy.


^ This.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> No, I meant show some respect to people in general. Not just me, as we're all pretty intelligent in the Enneagram and Socionics forum. Also, the elites don't hate you or me. In fact you'd be surprised how accepting the upper levels of society really are.


Holy fuck. You must live in fucking lala land, it's no surprise you love the state. You actually think Bill Gates, Margaret Sanger, Jeff Bezos, Aldous Huxley, JP Morgan, George H.W. Bush, the Rockefeller family, the Rothschild family, et al are going to _accept_ you. You're FUBAR.


----------



## Blystone

mimesis said:


> Oh yeah, like you are helping worthy students with a genuine desire to be enlightened, right?
> 
> Shouldn't have tried that. You thought you could get away with it and impress people. Which was enough telling for me where you are coming from, tough guy.


Are you an INTP 5? You seem like an INTP 5. A _particularly_ annoying INTP 5. 

Now, about the bet, do you have a Paypal account? International wire transfers are a bitch.


----------



## Animal

LeoCat said:


> I actually don't have daddy issues.


I have Daddy issues. My dad is cooler & tougher than most American men. Nobody wants to settle for less than the standards they were raised by. So I expect more out of humanity, and I am always disappointed. That's my daddy issue. 




> I teach it to women.
> 
> 
> To empower them, because so many are timid and insecure. I find when they are that way they rely more on being passive aggressive and manipulative. Encouraging them to have boldness and speak up, improves their lives I have been told.


Some people who have been taught to stay silent.. and who have been raised in hatred and weakness.. can benefit tremendously from an example of a strong woman. <3


----------



## CaptSwan

@MNiS , @Dalton and @mimesis

Please, don't let yourselves be pulled by his game. He'll try to piss you off just for fun; he did it with @LeoCat and me. Don't fall for his game.


----------



## Blystone

CaptSwan said:


> @_MNiS_ , @_Dalton_ and @_mimesis_
> 
> Please, don't let yourselves be pulled by his game. He'll try to piss you off just for fun; he did it with @_LeoCat_ and me. Don't fall for his game.


I don't know if I should feel insulted or flattered that you think I'm that cunning.


----------



## HellCat

The only thing that pissed me off in this entire thread. Is the name he called Dalton. You took it too far and owe him an apology.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> The only thing that pissed me off in this entire thread. Is the name he called Dalton. You took it too far and owe him an apology.


Remember that old adage? Sticks and stones may break your bones but words can never hurt you.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> Remember that old adage? Sticks and stones may break your bones but words can never hurt you.



Now that is horse shit. The most damaging thing to a person is words. Words can damage them decades after something occurs. Not saying it would, but what if you said something that triggered someone who had been bullied that way? 

Emotional triggers are very real. 

This is what I meant by solipsism.


----------



## CaptSwan

Blystone said:


> I don't know if I should feel insulted or flattered that you think I'm that cunning.


I have no interest in talking to you; but, to answer your question, it was the only thing I could think of. I mean, it's impossible that a normal-thinking human being can spew that much nonsense just because he actually believes it. And, by the way; calling the name you called Dalton was taking it too far. It shows the quality of conversation you can think of. Yes, go ahead, yell, call offensive names; the only one making a fool of himself is you.


----------



## mimesis

Blystone said:


> Are you an INTP 5? You seem like an INTP 5. A _particularly_ annoying INTP 5.
> 
> Now, about the bet, do you have a Paypal account? International wire transfers are a bitch.


Yeah I bet I am annoying to you. :tongue:


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> Now that is horse shit. The most damaging thing to a person is words. Words can damage them decades after something occurs. Not saying it would, but what if you said something that triggered someone who had been bullied that way?
> 
> Emotional triggers are very real.
> 
> This is what I meant by solipsism.


I can't be held accountable for someone else's emotional reaction. If someone's going to cry over something a random guy on the internet said, they aren't fit for social interaction in the first place.


----------



## Blystone

mimesis said:


> Yeah I bet I am annoying to you. :tongue:


Hell yeah you are.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> I can't be held accountable for someone else's emotional reaction. If someone's going to cry over something a random guy on the internet said, they aren't fit for social interaction in the first place.



You should always be accountable. It is part of maturation, learning empathy and growing in wisdom. Not everyone is as frozen and apathetic as you. Might benefit you to understand that.


----------



## Blystone

[No message]


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> You should always be accountable. It is part of maturation, learning empathy and growing in wisdom. Not everyone is as frozen and apathetic as you. Might benefit you to understand that.


I have empathy. I just don't empathize with my enemies. I'm no Jesus Christ.


----------



## HellCat

Blystone said:


> I have empathy. I just don't empathize with my enemies. I'm no Jesus Christ.


If people become your enemy just criticizing what you say in a thread, then maybe you aren't fit for social interaction just yet.


----------



## Blystone

LeoCat said:


> If people become your enemy just criticizing what you say in a thread, then maybe you aren't fit for social interaction just yet.


No. Criticism is a necessary tool in regards to claims and accusations. My enemies are the people who support the violation of free will, who support the violation of private property, who support the subjugation of mankind under the state. Like I said before, my beliefs aren't popular, but they are logical. Anyone that claims murder, rape, or theft are moral actions is undoubtedly and provably evil.


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> Holy fuck. You must live in fucking lala land, it's no surprise you love the state. You actually think Bill Gates, Margaret Sanger, Jeff Bezos, Aldous Huxley, JP Morgan, George H.W. Bush, the Rockefeller family, the Rothschild family, et al are going to _accept_ you. You're FUBAR.


Do you think elite families have one giant get together where you're not invited? No, they don't they're just busy running their life and family like anyone else. They just have a name and whatever it is that gave them a name. Plus, I already know I'm accepted so lol @ U. 

I honestly don't know how you can I'm FUBAR'd with a straight face. XD


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> Do you think elite families have one giant get together where you're not invited? No, they're just busy running their life and family like anyone else. They just have a name. Also, I already know I'm accepted so lol @ u. U mad bro?


I actually read their works. They rape and murder children, they openly admit to working against the interests of the United States, and they worship Lucifer. 



> Also, the only thing FUBAR'd here is your desire to destroy American values with your ghetto ideas.


Quite ironic coming from a Fabian socialist.


----------



## HellCat

@Animal you always have the best threads. I bet this thing could get to 300 pages in a week.


----------



## Animal

LeoCat said:


> @_Animal_ you always have the best threads. I bet this thing could get to 300 pages in a week.


There are currently 21 users browsing this thread. (12 members and 9 guests)


Can you believe it? 9 guests? GTFO!


----------



## HellCat

Animal said:


> There are currently 21 users browsing this thread. (12 members and 9 guests)
> 
> 
> Can you believe it? 9 guests? GTFO!


Then they should join and speak up. 

So you can chew on their brains!


----------



## MNiS

Blystone said:


> I actually read their works. They rape and murder children, they openly admit to working against the interests of the United States, and they worship Lucifer.
> 
> Quite ironic coming from a Fabian socialist.


Well I certainly don't worship Lucifer. I don't really believe in the concept of Hell except as a means of scaring some people straight.

So first you thought I was a fascist and now you think I'm a Fabian socialist? I'd say my views are more lassiez-faire egalitarian if you _must_ label me with something. Jesus, you're judgmental.


----------



## hal0hal0

Donovan said:


> i don't see what's so great about being Sx. it's easily an obsession. it gives you strength to do a great deal, but the tasks that it fuels just fuel the initial drive--like a repeating circuit that never ends.


I think it's the "grass is always greener on the other side thing" in the sense that everybody wants what everyone else has (or what they themselves do not have), so in conclusion, we're all miserable and unhappy, and therefore *we are all 4s*.

:tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue::tongue: 

Ok, turning off semi-facetious mode, I think there is some truth to that in the sense that inner dissonance that recognizes the schism between what we ideally wish for and what reality presents with us is a "universal" problem (regardless of enneatype). In part because, there is a sort of duality between ideals/reality as well as ambition/complacency.

Is it better to be dissatisfied with the present or hunger for ideals? What is the difference between being appreciative for what you have vs. complacency? What is the difference between hoping for a better tomorrow vs. being dissatisfied and taking things for granted? I think there is a difference between these things, but they can easily get confused for one another (particularly when viewed from the outside, aka, one person's projections of their standards imposed upon the standards of another... I sometimes think people are all in agreement in concept, it's just that everyone draws their line in a different place in the sand [i.e., we have different limits, which we call "individual differences."].

Argh, life is so confusing! Just as I am confused as to what's happening in this thread (mostly because I'm lazy and just skimmed it; and I also want to play around with my sexy new keyboard).

~~~~~~~~~~~

So my Sx "rant" for the day:

Cherry MX blue switches, dear god, I love the clicky sound you make. You're so obnoxiously loud I love you; it feels like I'm typing on a typewriter. It's like my fingertips are orgasming with each key I press. *drool*. Thank you for being in my life, Cherry Mx blues.


----------



## Dalton

CaptSwan said:


> @_MNiS_ , @_Dalton_ and @_mimesis_
> 
> Please, don't let yourselves be pulled by his game. He'll try to piss you off just for fun; he did it with @_LeoCat_ and me. Don't fall for his game.


I'm not pissed anymore. I'm actually starting to have fun. I wonder if I can get him to eat his own words or walk off with his tail behind his legs.



LeoCat said:


> The only thing that pissed me off in this entire thread. Is the name he called Dalton. You took it too far and owe him an apology.


TBH, I don't care that he apologizes to me (I'm fairly calloused as it is), but it's absolutely incorrect of him to use that kind of language.



Blystone said:


> Remember that old adage? Sticks and stones may break your bones but words can never hurt you.


I'm pretty sure this one hurts: "All those times I said 'I love you'... it was all a lie."
Or perhaps your mother says, "I only birthed you for the tax break."
"The only reason I pretended to love you in the first place is because I felt sorry that nobody else will ever love you."

I can go on and on. Words can hurt. Obviously you're aware of that, you attempt to take advantage of it as often as you can.
"I'm actually a nice guy IRL." Don't flatter yourself, buddy. :laughing:

You love name-calling, and you love to attack people by pushing them into groups. So far we've seen: sheeple, slave, nerd, ***, Lilith, Hecate, daddy issues, sluts, whores, dumb stupid animals, egotistical fair weather pussies, social reject, Drama club, Band camp, ROTC, anarchists, Luciferians, military, 31E, Fascist, Statist, cocksuckers, motherfucker, Fabian socialist... I'm sure I missed some.

If you are attempting to epitomize the _inability to understand and communicate with people_, you are succeeding! Bravo! It is pathetic that you must resort to such derogatory terms, and generalize people in the ways you do. You come here with the intention to speak with people you hate. _You need us._ You need the fix of dominating another person, proving to them that their values and beliefs are incorrect. How does it feel when we turn it around on you? Seriously, I want to know what you _feel_, not just wha you think. I can't put enough of these :laughing: in order to express the hilarity that _I actually took you seriously before.
_
You claimed that you don't need to study people, because you already understand them. You delude yourself. You pride yourself in abilities which you do not have. Because nobody likes you, you have to convince yourself that you're better than everybody else. They're just too _dumb_ to recognize how speshul you are! It's really sad to watch such a potentially brilliant mind go to waste because of his repressed emotional problems. I'd pity you, but I just don't care about you enough to pity. I'm just having fun pointing out all the mistakes you've made by being rude. Nobody can disagree without being called a name. It really shows the immaturity that's behind your internet persona. roud:

C'mon man. That challenge you just gave me??????? You screwed up the A. Haig quote *as well*! He is _rumored_ to have said that, but you're a smart guy. You must have known that I could find that by simply copy-pasting into Google and clicking the first Snopes page I see, finished in 10 seconds maximum. Stop pulling the punches and give me a real challenge, but at least do it with some maturity and human decency. :wink:

I just realized that this is all on topic! We've just been ranting and raging, and now that I have a new attitude about it, it's becoming quite entertaining. :tongue:

Remember, Blystone, when people put _themselves_ up on a pedestal, I'm quite eager to topple them. :ninja:


----------



## HellCat

Dalton said:


> I'm not pissed anymore. I'm actually starting to have fun. I wonder if I can get him to eat his own words or walk off with his tail behind his legs.
> 
> 
> TBH, I don't care that he apologizes to me (I'm fairly calloused as it is), but it's absolutely incorrect of him to use that kind of language.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure this one hurts: "All those times I said 'I love you'... it was all a lie."
> Or perhaps your mother says, "I only birthed you for the tax break."
> "The only reason I pretended to love you in the first place is because I felt sorry that nobody else will ever love you."
> 
> I can go on and on. Words can hurt. Obviously you're aware of that, you attempt to take advantage of it as often as you can.
> "I'm actually a nice guy IRL." Don't flatter yourself, buddy. :laughing:
> 
> You love name-calling, and you love to attack people by pushing them into groups. So far we've seen: sheeple, slave, nerd, ***, Lilith, Hecate, daddy issues, sluts, whores, dumb stupid animals, egotistical fair weather pussies, social reject, Drama club, Band camp, ROTC, anarchists, Luciferians, military, 31E, Fascist, Statist, cocksuckers, motherfucker, Fabian socialist... I'm sure I missed some.
> 
> If you are attempting to epitomize the _inability to understand and communicate with people_, you are succeeding! Bravo! It is pathetic that you must resort to such derogatory terms, and generalize people in the ways you do. You come here with the intention to speak with people you hate. _You need us._ You need the fix of dominating another person, proving to them that their values and beliefs are incorrect. How does it feel when we turn it around on you? Seriously, I want to know what you _feel_, not just wha you think. I can't put enough of these :laughing: in order to express the hilarity that _I actually took you seriously before.
> _
> You claimed that you don't need to study people, because you already understand them. You delude yourself. You pride yourself in abilities which you do not have. Because nobody likes you, you have to convince yourself that you're better than everybody else. They're just too _dumb_ to recognize how speshul you are! It's really sad to watch such a potentially brilliant mind go to waste because of his repressed emotional problems. I'd pity you, but I just don't care about you enough to pity. I'm just having fun pointing out all the mistakes you've made by being rude. Nobody can disagree without being called a name. It really shows the immaturity that's behind your internet persona. roud:
> 
> C'mon man. That challenge you just gave me??????? You screwed up the A. Haig quote *as well*! He is _rumored_ to have said that, but you're a smart guy. You must have known that I could find that by simply copy-pasting into Google and clicking the first Snopes page I see, finished in 10 seconds maximum. Stop pulling the punches and give me a real challenge, but at least do it with some maturity and human decency. :wink:
> 
> I just realized that this is all on topic! We've just been ranting and raging, and now that I have a new attitude about it, it's becoming quite entertaining. :tongue:
> 
> Remember, Blystone, when people put _themselves_ up on a pedestal, I'm quite eager to topple them. :ninja:



You rock. 

Well put.


----------



## an absurd man

I think I might be an sx-dom. Not sure if these are "symptoms", but as far as I know, these are the only times when talking to others doesn't feel like a chore: 1) we are involved in a project that I am deeply invested in or enthusiastic about 2) we're talking about something interesting or about big topics like global issues, current events, philosophy, life, ideas 3) conversation involves some argument or play-fighting, teasing, etc., or builds sexual tension. 

amirite or amiwrong?



hal0hal0 said:


> Cherry MX blue switches, dear god, I love the clicky sound you make. You're so obnoxiously loud I love you; it feels like I'm typing on a typewriter. It's like my fingertips are orgasming with each key I press. *drool*. Thank you for being in my life, Cherry Mx blues.


Fellow Cherry MX blue user here, representin'


----------



## possiBri

Blystone said:


> Remember that old adage? Sticks and stones may break your bones but words can never hurt you.


RANT: I fucking hate it when people call this kind of bullshit. Words don't hurt? Really? I guess you haven't ever been called a name or been talked down to... yeah never. 

RANT 2: I seriously fucking hate it when I come to a thread hoping for interesting insight/conversation/resonance with others, and instead find an asshole who can't just shut the fuck up and let stuff go. 

YES. You have a different opinion. NO. Calling people **** and idiots and statists isn't going to change their mind, just like calling you an asshole won't change _your_ mind. Regardless, I needed to bitch about this because I've spend the last 20 minutes trying to sift through all your bullshit looking for actual posts pertaining to the original thread topic.

Yes, I know it wasn't just one person continuing this on... but really, just give it a fucking rest. Go start your own thread about this bullshit and have it out there... fuck.


----------



## Blystone

MNiS said:


> Well I certainly don't worship Lucifer. I don't really believe in the concept of Hell except as a means of scaring some people straight.
> 
> So first you thought I was a fascist and now you think I'm a Fabian socialist? I'd say my views are more lassiez-faire egalitarian if you _must_ label me with something. Jesus, you're judgmental.


There's little difference between a Socialist, a Fascist and an Egalitarian. So long as you're a Statist, any of the terms are an accurate description of your beliefs.


----------



## Blystone

possiBri said:


> RANT: I fucking hate it when people call this kind of bullshit. Words don't hurt? Really? I guess you haven't ever been called a name or been talked down to... yeah never.


People call me names all the time, it never hurts. If words hurt you, maybe it's because there's a piercing truth to what they're saying. 



> YES. You have a different opinion. NO. Calling people **** and idiots and statists isn't going to change their mind, just like calling you an asshole won't change _your_ mind.


Of course not, but it's fun. 



> Regardless, I needed to bitch about this because I've spend the last 20 minutes trying to sift through all your bullshit looking for actual posts pertaining to the original thread topic.


You needed to bitch because you're a hypocritical self-righteous prick.



> Yes, I know it wasn't just one person continuing this on... but really, just give it a fucking rest. Go start your own thread about this bullshit and have it out there... fuck.


If you really cared about the OP, you wouldn't have posted this comment. Just saying.


----------



## Blystone

Dalton said:


> I'm not pissed anymore. I'm actually starting to have fun. I wonder if I can get him to eat his own words or walk off with his tail behind his legs.


Haha. You're such a weirdo. 



> TBH, I don't care that he apologizes to me (I'm fairly calloused as it is), but it's absolutely incorrect of him to use that kind of language.


I can say whatever I want, to whoever I want.



> I'm pretty sure this one hurts: "All those times I said 'I love you'... it was all a lie."
> Or perhaps your mother says, "I only birthed you for the tax break."
> "The only reason I pretended to love you in the first place is because I felt sorry that nobody else will ever love you."


Lol. I bet it'd take you _at-least_ an hour to come up with 5 more. 



> I can go on and on. Words can hurt. Obviously you're aware of that, you attempt to take advantage of it as often as you can.


I use words to get a point across. If it hurts you, I don't care. 


> "I'm actually a nice guy IRL." Don't flatter yourself, buddy. :laughing:


I've called myself an asshole on multiple occasions. Let's not be fallacious. OK, poptart? 



> You love name-calling, and you love to attack people by pushing them into groups. So far we've seen: sheeple, slave, nerd, ***, Lilith, Hecate, daddy issues, sluts, whores, dumb stupid animals, egotistical fair weather pussies, social reject, Drama club, Band camp, ROTC, anarchists, Luciferians, military, 31E, Fascist, Statist, cocksuckers, motherfucker, Fabian socialist... I'm sure I missed some.


Everyone falls into a category.











> If you are attempting to epitomize the _inability to understand and communicate with people_, you are succeeding! Bravo! It is pathetic that you must resort to such derogatory terms, and generalize people in the ways you do.


Bullshit rhetoric. 



> You come here with the intention to speak with people you hate. _You need us._


Need is a funny word. I only need you inasmuch as I desire to be entertained by you; so long as there's entertainment to be derived from our interactions, I'll continue. 



> You need the fix of dominating another person, proving to them that their values and beliefs are incorrect.


I only dominate predators; specifically those that seek to prey upon the weak and the innocent. 



> How does it feel when we turn it around on you?


Who's_ we_? Just needed an ego boost, did you? 





> Seriously, I want to know what you _feel_, not just wha you think. I can't put enough of these :laughing: in order to express the hilarity that _I actually took you seriously before.
> _


I _feel_ like this cold might finally be in remission. 



> You claimed that you don't need to study people, because you already understand them. You delude yourself. You pride yourself in abilities which you do not have. Because nobody likes you, you have to convince yourself that you're better than everybody else. They're just too _dumb_ to recognize how speshul you are!


You use a lot of adjectives and rhetoric, but never form a proper argument, like the good little sophist you are. But you're right, most people don't like me, and I don't like most people. I'd rather live a life of solitude and isolation than among the hoards of parasitical statists like you. Lucky for me, the elite have plans for exterminating you and the rest of the sheeple, giving me a real opportunity at creating the society I so desperately desire to live in. 



> It's really sad to watch such a potentially brilliant mind go to waste because of his repressed emotional problems.


Lol, shut the fuck up. 



> I'd pity you, but I just don't care about you enough to pity.


If I wanted pity, I'd go to church. 



> I'm just having fun pointing out all the mistakes you've made by being rude.


I find it no surprise that instead of proving my political, moral, and economic beliefs invalid you instead focus the entirety of your arguments against me as a person, which is fine; but my beliefs are bullet proof. If you really wanted to "make me pay", disprove the core tenets of my existence. 



> Nobody can disagree without being called a name. It really shows the immaturity that's behind your internet persona. roud:


I said it once before, if a person is incapable of debate, mockery is the next best thing. You're incapable of debate, mocking you works well. 



> C'mon man. That challenge you just gave me??????? You screwed up the A. Haig quote *as well*! He is _rumored_ to have said that, but you're a smart guy. You must have known that I could find that by simply copy-pasting into Google and clicking the first Snopes page I see, finished in 10 seconds maximum. Stop pulling the punches and give me a real challenge, but at least do it with some maturity and human decency. :wink:


How convenient you ignored Bob Woodward's personal account of the Kissinger quote; what's wrong, can't handle facts? 

Regardless, damn near every quote on the internet is "rumored". Snopes is the Wikipedia of disinformation. Any organization that supports the official story of 9/11 is complicit in the genocide of millions of innocent Iraqis and thousands of U.S. soldiers. 



> Remember, Blystone, when people put _themselves_ up on a pedestal, I'm quite eager to topple them. :ninja:


Well aren't you a badass. There's a name for people like you in the firearms community; gear-queer.


----------



## Distill

@Blystone, you could've just posted a gif of you thumping your chest and windmilling your penis. It would've saved us 8 pages of drivel.


----------



## HellCat

Distill said:


> @_Blystone_, you could've just posted a gif of you thumping your chest and windmilling your penis. It would've saved us 8 pages of drivel.


I can't stop laughing at the imagery. :kitteh:


----------



## Blystone

Distill said:


> @_Blystone_, you could've just posted a gif of you thumping your chest and windmilling your penis. It would've saved us 8 pages of drivel.


You gay, mate?


----------



## Distill

Blystone said:


> You gay, mate?


Yes, you got me, I'm as gay as a window and I'm just so turned on by your primal manliness. It's all I think about. Take me now, loverboy.


----------



## Blystone

Distill said:


> Yes, you got me, I'm as gay as a window and I'm just so turned on by your primal manliness. It's all I think about. Take me now, loverboy.


For the sake of the real men in this thread, let's keep the homoerotic stuff out of here. No, decent, self respecting male would even entertain the disgusting fantasy you thought up. Lui Marco would certainly disapprove of you.


----------



## Distill

Blystone said:


> For the sake of the real men in this thread, let's keep the homoerotic stuff out of here. No, decent, self respecting male would even entertain the disgusting fantasy you thought up. Lui Marco would certainly disapprove of you.


Oh, but the fact that you're a real man is just the biggest turn on for me. I mean, I just can't help myself, I just get enveloped by all sorts of thoughts. Like thinking about the seductive, rhythmic pulsing of your totem...I just have to have it, you know?


----------



## possiBri

Blystone said:


> If you really cared about the OP, you wouldn't have posted this comment. Just saying.


My post was related to the original topic. Just saying.

Oh nvm, I see he's banned now...


----------



## DomNapoleon

Rant: 

I need stimulation. A lot of it. If I don't have the right amount of stimulation I get depressed and numb. I need to experience everything at least once. If I feel closed up or stuck I immediately withdraw. I need to achieve the highest highs. Apparently that bugs a lot of people. And in the last months I realized that music doesn't satisfies me very much. I need something real and passionate in my life. Otherwise I go other way. My sx instinct craves for stimulation, adventure, going outside and experience the world as it is. I don't care for limitations, in fact I've break some of my own limitations in the past months. I need to be completely free and unrestrained. Like a wild animal who is ready to experience his own life.


----------



## Superfluous

LeoCat said:


> @_Superfluous_ you ever see this musical? or this one. I love these songs from them but the entire score is..amazing on both.
> 
> I used to be an actress too, I sing, dance etc. Never modeled like you, my director at sixteen suggested it once *just print and a store show, this was the late 90s when you were allowed to eat and a size six was considered small) and my parents went nuts and banned me from everything. Long story. I thought I was going to die..for about a week. Then I decided fuck em all and I played the lead in Salome. I was kicked out of church.
> 
> The bottom song is from a play featuring Cole porter tunes. There is also a movie of it, Kiss me Kate, from the 50s. I bet you would love seeing bob fosse as a young man.



Oh man, you sing and dance? With acting? Youre the fucking trifecta. I would've done the same damn thing. Salome sounds profoundly intense; the experience surely had to be worth being kicked out of church.

I never watched a Woody Allen film, now that im older, I really really should - but every time I look at him, the word "pedo creep" chants between my ears, louder and louder til I turn it off.. But I love Goldie Hawn, she's an angel. 

I should watch the film! Itll start me on a musical binge though. Your post lead me into watching into a few videos of musical scenes of my fav musicals. Chicago & Cabaret have been my favorite since I was a kid, so this has a similar element to it - I think it's the same director actually. The protagonist is a 7 in a middle of a internal crisis, and the women of his life are tumbling down all at once - and not in a good, sexy way as it sounds. The priority mark is 3:19 if youre feeling impatient lol.


----------



## Superfluous

I dont understand how this fucking world works. How can you sit there, ignoring shit until it goes away or the problem slinks under the rug. What the fuck is this? You dont like that I'm confrontative, how bout you say something about it! Let me see the fire behind your eyes, put me in my place, tell me exactly what in the hell I'm doing that is so wrong, if you don't like what the hell I'm doing! It's something that I can respect, it's called constructive critisism. You know that I care about your feelings and I am not a monster when I don't have to be, but when I'm surely crossed, I will let you know. Something I dont understand, is how I tell you that I'm insulted by you, and you turn around like you have an issue. I tell you I'm sorry, and you can't accept it, then it's your problem from now on; not mine. Trust me, from the looks of it, I can move on quite easier than you.


----------



## Dalton

Superfluous said:


> I dont understand how this fucking world works. How can you sit there, ignoring shit until it goes away or the problem slinks under the rug. What the fuck is this? You dont like that I'm confrontative, how bout you say something about it! Let me see the fire behind your eyes, put me in my place, tell me exactly what in the hell I'm doing that is so wrong, if you don't like what the hell I'm doing! It's something that I can respect, it's called constructive critisism. You know that I care about your feelings and I am not a monster when I don't have to be, but when I'm surely crossed, I will let you know. Something I dont understand, is how I tell you that I'm insulted by you, and you turn around like you have an issue. I tell you I'm sorry, and you can't accept it, then it's your problem from now on; not mine. Trust me, from the looks of it, I can move on quite easier than you.


I can't count the amount of times I've thought the same thing.

I like this post x one-fucking-thousand.


----------



## Ace Face

Superfluous said:


> I dont understand how this fucking world works. How can you sit there, ignoring shit until it goes away or the problem slinks under the rug. What the fuck is this? You dont like that I'm confrontative, how bout you say something about it! Let me see the fire behind your eyes, put me in my place, tell me exactly what in the hell I'm doing that is so wrong, if you don't like what the hell I'm doing! It's something that I can respect, it's called constructive critisism. You know that I care about your feelings and I am not a monster when I don't have to be, but when I'm surely crossed, I will let you know. Something I dont understand, is how I tell you that I'm insulted by you, and you turn around like you have an issue. I tell you I'm sorry, and you can't accept it, then it's your problem from now on; not mine. Trust me, from the looks of it, I can move on quite easier than you.


To be constructive, you spelled criticism wrong. But word up.


----------



## Nobleheart

Superfluous said:


> I dont understand how this fucking world works. How can you sit there, ignoring shit until it goes away or the problem slinks under the rug. What the fuck is this? You dont like that I'm confrontative, how bout you say something about it! Let me see the fire behind your eyes, put me in my place, tell me exactly what in the hell I'm doing that is so wrong, if you don't like what the hell I'm doing! It's something that I can respect, it's called constructive critisism. You know that I care about your feelings and I am not a monster when I don't have to be, but when I'm surely crossed, I will let you know. Something I dont understand, is how I tell you that I'm insulted by you, and you turn around like you have an issue. I tell you I'm sorry, and you can't accept it, then it's your problem from now on; not mine. Trust me, from the looks of it, I can move on quite easier than you.


Can l make this my sig? lol spot on


----------



## HellCat

Superfluous said:


> I dont understand how this fucking world works. How can you sit there, ignoring shit until it goes away or the problem slinks under the rug. What the fuck is this? You dont like that I'm confrontative, how bout you say something about it! Let me see the fire behind your eyes, put me in my place, tell me exactly what in the hell I'm doing that is so wrong, if you don't like what the hell I'm doing! It's something that I can respect, it's called constructive critisism. You know that I care about your feelings and I am not a monster when I don't have to be, but when I'm surely crossed, I will let you know. Something I dont understand, is how I tell you that I'm insulted by you, and you turn around like you have an issue. I tell you I'm sorry, and you can't accept it, then it's your problem from now on; not mine. Trust me, from the looks of it, I can move on quite easier than you.



Its a matter of maturity and learning how to handle confrontation. Most people would rather be "offended" than face up to their flaws and failures. Its very childish and has to do with rejection issues and deep shame and self loathing usually they project onto others as the problem. 

I think. from my observations at least. 


I hope you work something satisfactory out, they must matter a lot.


----------



## HellCat

@Daleks_exterminate


----------



## Nobleheart

This video tells the cyclical story of my life. ^


----------



## Pelopra

Nobleheart said:


> I thought 6's were hardworking? My primary issue with being a 6 is that I'm lazy as balls.


i've seen more than one 6 description describe them as "trouble taking action", "tendency to procrastinate".
definitely in palmer's stuff, but also elsewhere.

honestly i feel like the world of six descriptions can be divided into two separate continents:

descriptions that i identify with, occasionally with great cringing discomfort

descriptions that have so little to do with myself or any other six i know that either the author didn't know what they were talking about or there's this whole separate sub-species of six that none of us sixes seem to know about. the kinds of descriptions where if i read them aloud to friends and then say "...that's supposed to be me", the awkward silence is broken only by sudden peals of incredulous laughter.


----------



## petite libellule

Ahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! I get it now!!! I actually worry for other people when I should just relax, be myself and get friends who are within a decent range of normal! Maybe even normal people won't mind if I'm just my weird self. Who knows! Today at work was fantastic and I'm literally at the office I wanted to work at when I was in school (by happenstance) so. Fuck this internet shit!! Lol!!


----------



## Nobleheart

Pelopra said:


> i've seen more than one 6 description describe them as "trouble taking action", "tendency to procrastinate".
> definitely in palmer's stuff, but also elsewhere.


Seems like indecision is a classic manifestation of skepticism. I would assume that this means a 6 finds following someone else's direction easier than taking their own initiative. "You want me to do this thing for you and you're going to give me that in return? Sure." is much easier than "I need to come up with the correct course of action that doesn't create a problem for myself or others." Doing things for someone else removes a lot of the pressure of having to make a decision that could be wrong.

Sound about right?


----------



## Flatlander

It's okay to loosen up.
It's okay to connect to a new person.
It's okay to ramble at someone about random intellectual things outside your typical scope because you're tired and you need to think about something outside of the same damn stale topics.

An sx 5 can dig itself into the most isolated cave. What you're mentally attached to is your world, and what you're not attached to you're not thinking about. The mind becomes a very small place when you are stuck in a phase when your mental attachments are limited to one or few. It seems it's time to expand again.


----------



## Animal

Dear Jealousy:
You do not have my best interest in mind. Go fuck yourself. I don't have time for your attacks and petty self-hating rhetoric. You almost made me vomit.

MiIIIiIiiIIiiNE


----------



## Golden Rose

Figuring out yourself is pretty damn empowering!!!

It makes me laugh to see people doubt the intensity of a sx-first because it's not something you can force or fake, not even if you wanted to... it's like Ne, you don't choose intensity, it jumps you and whacks you repeatedly in the feels and it's actually super duper amazing. You either go manic or bust! You feel a song pumping through your veins and you can figure out all of the patterns in the artist's emotions, you read a simple post and you feel like spinnin' around and dancin'. Every day?? It's a new adventure, you take plans and toss them out of the window because the heart gets what the heart wants. You feel completely infatuated with everything and everyone, new ideas tickle your brain funny and meeting interesting fun people gives you dat rush. And yes, you can eat the CAKEST CAKE OF ALL CAKES if you want to, what's so funny 'bout that?? :333 Failing??? Who cares, there are millions of new adventures ready for me!! Annoying?? Absolutely!! Something I'd give up?? No never!!


----------



## Pelopra

Nobleheart said:


> Seems like indecision is a classic manifestation of skepticism. I would assume that this means a 6 finds following someone else's direction easier than taking their own initiative. "You want me to do this thing for you and you're going to give me that in return? Sure." is much easier than "I need to come up with the correct course of action that doesn't create a problem for myself or others." Doing things for someone else removes a lot of the pressure of having to make a decision that could be wrong.
> 
> Sound about right?


i can't pinpoint why that doesn't sound right to me... it's not 'clicking' with my internal sense of correctness... so no, not sure that's right, will have to sit on it to think why.


----------



## mimesis

Pelopra said:


> i can't pinpoint why that doesn't sound right to me... it's not 'clicking' with my internal sense of correctness... so no, not sure that's right, will have to sit on it to think why.


I think because the issue (angst) is not primarily about ducking ownership (of action) but finding personal security, to avoid disaster not blame, guilt or shame. 

And in that respect there may not even be that much difference (in angst) between taking ownership of the course of action oneself, or taking ownership in trusting another person to decide course of action (and take ownership).



Anxiety and Hope said:


> ...Our situations are much more complicated in the modern world than they were when humans were struggling to survive in nature though. Most of the existential anxiety we feel in our lives is cued off by the threat of symbolic nothingness, not real nothingness. And since death is not imminent, this anxiety can stick around a lot longer than it really should, since we have the choice to do nothing to change our situations yet we don’t die.
> 
> Many people begin to accept high levels of anxiety as just a given in their lives without realizing their anxiety is broadcasting the most clear message possible that something needs to change. Unconsciously they might be terrified of what enacting this change might entail for their lives, like ending a relationship that has run its course but still provides some important functions, or deciding to look for a career that will provide more meaning but less financial security. So they stay put, doing nothing, and separate their anxiety from the uncertainty in their lives that is the cause of it.
> http://evolutioncounseling.com/anxiety-and-hope/


 @Nobleheart
I don't think scepticism (as a basic attitude or methodology) necessarily leads to indecision, because you don't need to be certain to have faith (or trust). If you need to be certain to have faith, you are not a scepticist.



Quotes said:


> "Scepticism is the beginning of Faith."
> Oscar Wilde
> 
> "Faith means belief in something concerning which doubt is theoretically possible."
> William James


----------



## -Alpha-

Sexual types are exhausting. 

Because of my hobbies, I am completely surrounded by them and often find myself trying to close up conversations with great difficulty. I'm a social type and while I appreciate connecting with other people, I like it to be purposeful and relatively quick with as few wasted words as possible. Often my sx friends will send me long strings of messages that I will never read in a million years.

Very loosely considering the idea of being Sp secondary.


----------



## petite libellule

Epiphany moment. My 1 in my trifix explains my 'standard' and I get scared for people (too much) and when I get scared for people, I go forth with my gut and come off as an ass. Though often my fears might be legitimate .. People are allowed to learn for themselves.

It's like, I can see the game of chess from beginning to end. And I get scared when I know someone will lose doing the strategy they're doing. So I get scared for the person and try to tell them how to play. And I guess I need to just remember, to let them lose. I know this!! Why is it so hard! (Triggers seem to be if I care it's hard or if it's a super sad situation and my Fe picks up on that and I'm sad - I hate being sad)  

ugh .. I also get sad other people seem to slack on so much internal work. I've known people who in a period of 10 years are the same person. How does that happen?! .. :frustrating: Letting go, letting go. Go away one fix you do my fear no favors!


----------



## Nobleheart

-Alpha- said:


> Very loosely considering the idea of being Sp secondary.


You have a lot of id in your tritype (sig). It's possible that is giving you a false sx impression?



ningsta kitty said:


> Epiphany moment.


Yeah, I recently had a big one of those too. I've had this epiphany before, but I'm a 1 sx. 

Therefore, when I tell you that the "should" of 1 can come off as demanding, critical, angry, and as an act of dominance despite on the inside being a noble act of selfless desire to help, refine, and correct... you know, for their own good, because you care, and good people help when they see things that are wrong or could end up being a bad thing for them (or yourself)... I'm saying this from a position of knowing how easy it is to completely miss this mechanism when I'm doing it. Hell, I'm doing it now.

Ni mixes with 1 to cause a whole lot of seeing the outcome that others can't. Fe mixes with 1 to create a whole lot of "should" that wants to prevent those bad outcomes. Sx mixes with 1 to create a whole lot of "jump to action" on a personal level.

It's almost impossible to stop myself before I engage this mechanism because it's so reflexive (4 and 6 fixes make it even more reactive), but the hardest part is not being able to assume it wouldn't be welcomed when it comes flying out. I mean, I've learned over the years to "tone it down" a bit, and sometimes I can even manage a "this might seem critical... are you sure you want me to tell you?" But, you've at least got the core 6 to force you to question it before you toss it out there. 

I jump in there like Wonder Woman, going all Amazon superhero on the problem that is threatening everyone, and then people are pissed off because I beat up the monster (... and caused a few million in property damage... psh, materialistic mortals and their 'stuff').

aka, I feel ya.


----------



## HellCat

The longer it takes something to be resolved. The more my trust for a person dissipates.


----------



## Arya

CaptSwan said:


> @_Naqsh_
> 
> I'll be glad to have you face to face... It'll be an interesting experience, I'll give you that special presentation you requested me; just you, Pablo and me :wink: I remember this one time I was talking on cam to a friend when my brother asked me something; I was talking in English, answered him in Spanish and resumed to English again. I do that with such ease that; it feels natural for me. I'm yet to see what happens in a foreign country if I was to lose control... Something that doesn't happen easy; but, that I'm curious to see what happens then.


Yeah I don't know how you did that, and actually, we should go back to doing Spanish again too. I love Spanish even though I can't seem to speak it without my brain dying.


----------



## CaptSwan

Arya said:


> Yeah I don't know how you did that, and actually, we should go back to doing Spanish again too. I love Spanish even though I can't seem to speak it without my brain dying.


:laughing:

Relax... Your brain won't die. If mine didn't when taking Accounting classes in uni; yours will survive English.


----------



## Nobleheart

Once every few years, after a bad break up, I go through a slut phase. I'm headed into another one. Not looking forward to this. Not looking forward to learning how people smell, and then feeling empty laying next to them afterward. Not looking forward to the overwhelming drive to make it happen anyway.


----------



## CaptSwan

There's nothing more fascinating like, in the cold of the night; facing the pool muck and grime that's inside you and... taking a long dive into it. Facing what you consider the dark; with a "Give me some light!" cry. Seeing evaporate in an instant after a long, heart-felt conversation with a person you trust with your life... A feeling that simply cannot be purchased; not even with MasterCard.


----------



## bri5989

Galaxies said:


> There's nothing more condescending than people who tell me "I used to be like that/ I used to think like that but I don't anymore" after I express my feelings and thoughts on something that bothers me... because to them, you're too naive and hopeless. You're so cute and innocent, you'll never comprehend human behaviour.
> 
> All I then see is red, intense and flashing and I have to get the person out of my site.
> 
> They're too ignorant to grasp that others' think differently. Articulation gets me nowhere. I really hate that people, who can't get their act together, feel the need to give you advice. Are they really that blinded to their own shortcomings? Why would I ask for advice from someone who manipulates people to increase their self-esteem? Or someone who has a giant chip on their shoulder? Or someone who whines all the time?


I think i get what you're saying, sometimes I find myself confiding in other people about my flaws or a problem I'm having, and (while completely oblivious to their own flaws) they simply tell me what I need to do with the utmost confidence, and without being able to relate to me at all.. conclusion: ignorance really is bliss :wink:


----------



## Nobleheart

Dear chick who sorta works with me,

I know you mean well. I know your reflex to jump to advise me is rooted in genuine concern for me, my well being, and your inherent idealism. I get that. I really do.

But, seriously bitch. 

You gotta stop assuming you know what's going on in my life after two sentences. You've got amazing insight, and you're right far more often than not, but you don't doubt yourself nearly often enough, and it's led to you making some serious mistakes with people. You have cold hard logic down pat, but there's a reason you're rubbish when dealing with humans. The fact that you own this, yet can't figure out the problem should be proof enough that relationship advice isn't something you should be offering, let alone insisting.

You gotta stop being so fucking pushy about it like you're the authority on all that is right, correct, and good. Even if you weren't a terse cynical scorched-earth thinker, your approach would still be wrong for me because we have completely different needs and motivations. You have no idea what I need, why I need it, and most importantly how to get it. Everything you would advise me to do would be completely counter to my desired results in the long term.

You're a genius at making your own life work for you. Kudos. You've managed to create a self contained ball of Self Pres neurosis. You're inwardly miserable, and hyper critical of everything you come into contact with. I'm not sure if it's because you're not capable of sustained happiness and assume no one else is, or if you can't think past permanent solutions to immediate problems. 

People aren't disposable. You wonder why you only have one long term friend. Your advice only ever leads to cutting people out of one's life. How's that working out for you? 

But here's the worst part. You can't give me the same exact advice for a year, then chastise me when I finally take it like I'm doing something wrong. You can't advise me to be a bitch to get what I wanted out of a four year relationship, then tell me I'm not a good person for being a bitch to get what I want out of a new relationship. You only ever had any context of the end of my four year relationship. You weren't there when it was good, when we were inseparable, when we slept in each others' arms every night, and yet you felt entirely competent to advise me to be a bitch to get what I wanted or leave and find someone who will.

So, I was a bitch. Nothing changed. I created a little bit of leverage, but ended up losing everything because people don't respond to being pushed with love. Relationships aren't a chess game to force the other person into submission of demands. That just alienates people, erodes bonds, and otherwise creates walls of resentment. Your tactic of being the first one to build the wall doesn't do anything to avoid walls. It just lets you feel like you're in control of something you assume is inevitable, but is actually entirely preventable.

And now that I found someone new, before I can even get more than a few sentences of hyperbole for contrast to the last relationship we were just talking about out, you're judging me again, this time implying that I'm not a good person because you assume I'm implementing the very sorts of tactics you advised me to do with the last relationship? 

Aw hell no.

We're done. You don't know it yet, because you're socially inept. You won't know about it for quite some time, I suspect, again because you're socially inept. But, you're shrewd in a brutal kind of way, so you'll eventually figure out that my big warm presence is lacking depth. Our conversations will be me smiling, nodding, and letting you talk. It will hit you at some point, but because you're such a cold calculating bridge burner, you won't have any idea why.

I used to admire you, and that was my fault. It caused me to be unable to monitor my moral compass while you were insisting it was wrong. 

So done with that.

So done with people who don't understand the need to merge.

So done with people who advise against merging.

So done with people who think merging is the exact opposite of the point to life.

So done with people who feel merging is an alien concept, some kind of punishment, or prison.

So done with people who can't responsibly use other people's kindness.

Go be an island. 

All by yourself. 

Somewhere else.


----------



## HellCat




----------



## HellCat

Me- I am so MAD I want to beat the shit out of a guy. 


(law enforcement brother several inches taller, outweighs by xx quietly sneaks away. Brother in law (longtime guy friend) shrieks like homer simpson while in chat from his fear and ptsd from my beatings.

not abusive, just have a family of muscular fighter types who love to wale on each other. 

My 21 yr old sister and I will throw each other into walls and leave ugly bruises, love to bite each other.


----------



## lucia4

Galaxies said:


> There's nothing more condescending than people who tell me "I used to be like that/ I used to think like that but I don't anymore" after I express my feelings and thoughts on something that bothers me... because to them, you're too naive and hopeless. You're so cute and innocent, you'll never comprehend human behaviour.
> 
> All I then see is red, intense and flashing and I have to get the person out of my site.


This soooo much +111

I've had a certain set of moral standards since I was 18. At the time I was considered naive, stupid, "you can't understand because you're too young", "you'll change your mind when you're older, "you'll see". Blablabla. Well 5 years later I've been and done and seen all those things that were against my moral standards and it has only verified my original opinion.

There is nothing naive about disapproving of other people's immoral behavior. These people try to talk others down and be condescending to try and justify their own behavior to themselves and it's really f#cking annoying. There are a LOT of them, too.

I'm just as wise as I was 5 years ago, but now I have the sad background and experience to back it up.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

I finally had food hot enough. 

I had Indian,
asked for it extra hot.

the guy tried to talk me out of it.
I assured him I could take it.

He looked nervous as I tried it.
My mouth was filled with the burn of heaven.
He was very surprised.

ahhhhhh so good.


----------



## Nobleheart

Last time l had Indian, l ordered mild but got medium by mistake. 

Shot doodoo 5 times in the next 4 hours.

I think flames came out.


----------



## Dalton

@Daleks_exterminate @Nobleheart I'm cool with the spicy food that makes you cry for the flavor, but when you cry because your ANUS is bleeding... That's where I draw the line.


----------



## Max

Arya said:


> Yeah I don't know how you did that, and actually, we should go back to doing Spanish again too. I love Spanish even though I can't seem to speak it without my brain dying.


Me gusta habla en Espanol.
[That's probably not right]


----------



## Laguna

> ~Unleash your SX. Let it rip, rant, and rage. Feel free to purge until you attain catharsis.~​


I need to know.


----------



## Dalton

Laguna said:


> I need to know.


>.> Know what?


----------



## Max

Dalton said:


> >.> Know what?


How cool I am.


----------



## Laguna

Dalton said:


> >.> Know what?


here you gooooo


----------



## Nobleheart

Dalton said:


> @Daleks_exterminate @Nobleheart I'm cool with the spicy food that makes you cry for the flavor, but when you cry because your ANUS is bleeding... That's where I draw the line.


Blood. Fire. My asshole was like the Mother of Dragons that day.










Best part? It was an office outing and we carpooled, so I had to make everyone sit in the company minivan three times on the way home as I nearly committed anal arson in public bathrooms.

"Hey everyone, I have to shit lava again!"

I felt so pretty.


----------



## Animal

Still, they don't know who you are... 
still, never know who you are..







My SX confession: 
I wish for once, someone would know who I am. I wish someone would accept who I am. 
I know I'm too intense for most people. But why do they chase me in the first place? It's like they run after the pretty forest fire and then when they can't control it, they run away? I guess that's instinctual. 

I'm sorry for being a fire. I'm sorry for consuming and destroying. I'm sorry for my hunger. I'm sorry for my rage. I'm sorry for my pain. I'm sorry for my desire and I'm sorry for being too ashamed to talk about it. I'm sorry for feeling rejected.
I'm sorry for existing.


I hope I never see you again. I don't know how I could possibly look you in the face. I was blinded by admiration, ashamed of my desire and incapable of being honest. You don't care whether I live or die.. and you shouldn't. I don't deserve to exist to you. My only hope is that one day, I can forgive myself. That one day, I can show someone who I am without feeling like I would be doing them a favor if I spare them the view. 
Thank you for seeing me.
I'm sorry it took me so long to see you too. I saw so much of you, but I imagined that I meant nothing to you.. and that was my blind spot. I failed to believe you when you told me what I meant to you. That was simply impossible for me to believe, that I could matter to someone like you. You couldn't believe you mattered to me either. You said I was better than you and you were holding me back, that I deserved better, and if I really understood you I wouldn't trick myself into believing I cared about you. I did understand you.. the only thing I couldn't understand is why you would care about me. I convinced myself you didn't, and you convinced yourself I didn't care for you either. We were just the same. I can't believe how much it still bothers me. I don't even want you anymore, even as a friend. But the memory of what I did.. eats me alive. I can't live with myself. I can't live in my own skin knowing that I met my mirror and I saw him entirely except that I failed to recognize that both of us felt insignificant to the other.

For years I've been rejecting all the traits I saw in you.. the traits that I previously always dreamed of finding. I used to love Alex Grey's concept of his wife as his mirror, and I wanted to meet my mirror. 










I found my mirror in you, and then I lost you. For the last decade, I have been repulsed by anyone similar to me.. anyone similar to you. I need to stop feeling that way. I need to listen to my heart and keep it open. I need to trust that I have learned from this and next time I will do better. I need to stop hating myself for this. I don't hate you, and you are no better than me. I wish I could believe you weren't better than me. I know it rationally, but I don't feel it. I need to feel it. I need to let this truth take me over. You are not better than me. If it was so easy to forgive you, I can forgive myself.

I can love again. Fire is inspiration and creation. I need to love myself and accept myself the way I am, the way I accepted and loved you. That would be rational. But somehow it feels right to hate myself for everything that went wrong. Why? If I ever told you this, you would tell me that I did nothing wrong and it was all your fault. You have always felt that way and I'm sure it didn't change. It's really comical.. what we did. Pure comedy gold. I will never be able to mourn this memory without laughing and I will never be able to laugh about it without raging. Thank you for reminding me that there was blood in my veins back when I had lost myself. These memories still help me to remember who I am.
Thank you.


----------



## Dalton

Animal said:


> I wish for once, someone would know who I am. I wish someone would accept who I am.
> I know I'm too intense for most people. But why do they chase me in the first place? It's like they run after the pretty forest fire and then when they can't control it, they run away? I guess that's instinctual.
> 
> I'm sorry for being a fire. I'm sorry for consuming and destroying. I'm sorry for my hunger. I'm sorry for my rage. I'm sorry for my pain. I'm sorry for my desire and I'm sorry for being too ashamed to talk about it. I'm sorry for feeling rejected.
> I'm sorry for existing.
> 
> I hope I never see you again. I don't know how I could possibly look you in the face. I was incapable of doing anything right. You don't care whether I live or die.. and you shouldn't. I don't deserve to exist to you. My only hope is that one day, I can forgive myself. That one day, I can show someone who I am without feeling like I would be doing them a favor if I spare them the view.


I can relate to a bit of this. Wolves are beautiful, undomesticated creatures. Is it the _wolf's_ fault when humans attempt to cage them up as pets without first understanding what and who they are?

I don't know what specific events have caused your feelings at this time, but you can't be happy if you chose deny yourself the right to be who you are. Just because others are afraid of your beauty doesn't make you any less beautiful. It's rare that we can find somebody who truly appreciates us, not just for the initial excitement we bring them, but for who we truly are. I guess that's a hard truth about the world.

There is beauty in rage and desire, even in pain.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you meant to say, but I think I can speak for many members of this forum in saying that this is entirely ridiculous: "I don't deserve to exist to you." Don't start believing this lie. You're an amazing person. You deserve a lot.

P.S. As you added more, I realize that I probably misunderstood you a bit. Anyway, the overall sentiment still stands.


----------



## Dalton

Almost every time I hear people speaking another language, I flip back into the magical thinking that dominated my last few religious months: lust for the ability to "speak in tongues."

I want start talking to those Korean exchange students like I was born there too. I want to stop feeling ashamed for my inability to fluently speak Spanish. I want the confidence and ability to instantly connect with others.

Learning a language is much too hard.


----------



## CaptSwan

Dalton said:


> Almost every time I hear people speaking another language, I flip back into the magical thinking that dominated my last few religious months: lust for the ability to "speak in tongues."
> 
> I want start talking to those Korean exchange students like I was born there too. I want to stop feeling ashamed for my inability to fluently speak Spanish. I want the confidence and ability to instantly connect with others.
> 
> Learning a language is much too hard.


If you truly have the desire to learn it; that's already half the battle. There are plenty of resources where to learn; and, you could just approach those Korean exchange students and bargain them some English in exchange of some Korean. It'll be a quick process if you give it the due amount of time, patience and determination on the matter. If you want it, you can have it.


----------



## The Scorched Earth

Flatlander said:


> What used to give you your spark?


All kinds of things. Things that now no longer interest me that much. Stuff like activism, acting, music, mathematics. My tastes evolve over time.


----------



## Animal

*Message on my ok cupid from a gorgeous, muscular guy:*
Youre beautiful though. Why the heck are you single?

*My response:
*I want something real, powerful, soul-stirring. I'm not unrealistic or shallow. I know that passion is only one aspect of a relationship, and trust and compatibility is more important, etc. But that being said, it's not enough. I want someone who can see my soul naked, not just my body. I want him to bare his soul. Not many people have the interest or the passion to live the way I do. I am usually single, and happily expend my passion on music and writing in the interim. I keep my heart open to anyone who shares my passion and love for life - whether its a friend or a lover. I know there are people out there who can truly feel and who are really alive, and I will not settle for less. That is why I'm single.

And what about you? You are no slacker yourself.


----------



## Dalton

Animal said:


> I want something real, powerful, soul-stirring. I'm not unrealistic or shallow. I know that passion is only one aspect of a relationship, and trust and compatibility is more important, etc. But that being said, it's not enough. I want someone who can see my soul naked, not just my body. I want him to bare his soul. Not many people have the interest or the passion to live the way I do. I am usually single, and happily expend my passion on music and writing in the interim. I keep my heart open to anyone who shares my passion and love for life - whether its a friend or a lover. I know there are people out there who can truly feel and who are really alive, and I will not settle for less. That is why I'm single.


That's sexy.


----------



## Animal

Dalton said:


> That's sexy.


Hehee. I'm glad someone in the world finds it sexy when I'm blatantly honest.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

For the first time in my life,

there's someone I have an opportunity to know- i mean really know- as in being completely bare before some one else in body, mind and soul. I never truly believed in this, because I always craved and longed for it, but never experienced it. I don't fear it. I love the way it burns through me and the way it burns through them. If I to die a million excruciating deaths to be with this person I know I would (and I know they'd try to stop me.  ) ....like that would work. I've never felt as if I could rip my heart out of my chest and exchange it with someone else's for 10 minutes or fully trust someone like this, but I do. I trust them with my beating heart, the injured parts of my spirit, my goals, dreams and ambitions, anything that I am or could ever hope to be. I adore our differences and relish our similarities. I am hopelessly like a moth drawn to a flame addicted.


----------



## HellCat

Pogo LeoCat had copious coffee

~ My brothers quote when seeing me jump up and down when my favorite song came on.

I am really quiet and observant in person. Unless you get me drunk, caffeinated or sugared.


----------



## CaptSwan

Feeling a person's spirit, burning fast and brightly for you is fascinating and addictive. But, taming that fire and taking the time to know that person and share with them more than just words; seeing and hearing them play videogames and how they're super excited about having become vampires in Skyrim, pouring out our darkest secrets and walking each other through those dark paths; that kind of thing is just priceless. It makes the flame in one's soul burn more intensely for that person than it did before. Makes the bonding, waiting and sharing with that person, every second of every moment of it absolutely worth it. :happy:


----------



## Golden Rose

There's nothin' more gorgeous than the feeling of everything falling into place, knowing that every day you're getting closer to the vision you've been waiting for and working toward, you didn't know how or when it'd happen but you knew it would and it is. Everything around you is just so wonderful and you find yourself surprised by how powerful people and their emotions are, especially so the ones you love, in different ways sure, but the one you want the most is worth waiting for. It's not just heartbeats, it's just sleeping passion and attraction and knowing that it could be just right, no matter how much you're internally fighting it (who thought that a 1 fix and a 7 fix could live peacefully together? Haha) and it makes you feel alive and it's confusing because you've got little idea of what's going on inside you, focusing on others comes so much easier. It's nothing and everything at once but it makes you feel like a queen, it makes you want to lose yourself in their mind and to make sure that you'll be able to tend to their deepest needs. I should get myself a pillow though because it's gonna take forever and a day! Love how my 'rants' are so cryptic compared to everyone else's but they make perfect sense to me.

And congratulations to the new sx couple of the thread. :wink:


----------



## Nirel

Probably some SX things, I wonder if there are others here who can relate here.

I find solace in the fact that if it's not going to be amazing, I'd rather have nothing at all.
Driving narrow sharp turns at 140 kph is very relaxing to me.
I feel guilty for not smoking enough(last time was actually a more than 2 weeks ago) like it somehow makes me a boring person.
I feel the same for not doing drugs.
I once came back from work at around 21:00 on the weekend, I decided to reward myself with playing 1 hour of a PC game I just bought. I proceeded in to playing for twenty hours straight without drinking or eating, I woke up the next day and didn't care for it at all, never played it again.
I sometimes feel like a different person than who I was when I woke up this morning.

These are from the top of my head, none of them sound healthy when I read them...

I'm also very much ADHD I wonder if there is any correlation.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

We fell in love alone on a stage, in the reflective age...


----------



## zaczacattack

Nirel said:


> I once came back from work at around 21:00 on the weekend, I decided to reward myself with playing 1 hour of a PC game I just bought. I proceeded in to playing for twenty hours straight without drinking or eating, I woke up the next day and didn't care for it at all, never played it again.


Heh, I did the same thing with a game on steam (Banished). I was so hooked, then I couldn't close my eyes without seeing the game happening on the inside of my eyelids. I even dreamt about it. I played it to death in a matter of days before uninstalling it. Is that sx? Indulging in things excessively?


----------



## Flatlander

zaczacattack said:


> Heh, I did the same thing with a game on steam (Banished). I was so hooked, then I couldn't close my eyes without seeing the game happening on the inside of my eyelids. I even dreamt about it. I played it to death in a matter of days before uninstalling it. Is that sx? Indulging in things excessively?


Can be, yeah. It's certainly sx-like in tendency, especially if for you it represents extreme attraction to a single target.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

When you have to gain composure to skype that person, because you know they're smoulder is going to melt you into putty...


----------



## CaptSwan

Daleks_exterminate said:


> When you have to gain composure to skype that person, because you know they're smoulder is going to melt you into putty...


I know what you mean... That energy rushing and burning you; piercing into your soul and reading you like an open book. Hot, isn't it? :kitteh:


----------



## daleks_exterminate

CaptSwan said:


> I know what you mean... That energy rushing and burning you; piercing into your soul and reading you like an open book. Hot, isn't it? :kitteh:


Scorching. ...._​but I can take it. _


----------



## CaptSwan

Daleks_exterminate said:


> Scorching. ...._​but I can take it. _


Then, you should go to that person and let sparks and fire fly between you 2. I bet he'll love that a lot :wink:


----------



## daleks_exterminate

CaptSwan said:


> Then, you should go to that person and let sparks and fire fly between you 2. I bet he'll love that a lot :wink:


Im not sure... He gets a little freaked out how easily I can read him like a book, sense apparently no one including his family ever fully could... But I could immediately. Weird, wouldn't you say? :kitteh:


----------



## CaptSwan

Daleks_exterminate said:


> Im not sure... He gets a little freaked out how easily I can read him like a book, sense apparently no one including his family ever fully could... But I could immediately. Weird, wouldn't you say? :kitteh:


It is. But, maybe he sensed something special in you; that made him want to give you the chance to know him and, to offer you the same in return :happy: And, I'm sure he loves the way you read him :kitteh:


----------



## daleks_exterminate

CaptSwan said:


> It is. But, maybe he sensed something special in you; that made him want to give you the chance to know him and, to offer you the same in return :happy: And, I'm sure he loves the way you read him :kitteh:


Thank you for your advice & help with him. It's like you know him. :laughing:


----------



## CaptSwan

Daleks_exterminate said:


> Thank you for your advice & help with him. It's like you know him. :laughing:


It's a real pleasure! What can I say? I have a Sixth sense for things like that :laughing:


----------



## daleks_exterminate

CaptSwan said:


> It's a real pleasure! What can I say? I have a Sixth sense for things like that :laughing:


:kitteh:You should be friends. :wink:


----------



## CaptSwan

Daleks_exterminate said:


> :kitteh:You should be friends. :wink:


Make the introductions; I have the feeling I'll love the guy :laughing:


----------



## Dalton

I want to be close to her.
I want to feel her presence,
press my forehead against hers as I express my affection.

I don't truly appreciate her.
I can find fault in almost everything she does.
I know just what to say to break her heart,
and I must resist the urge to tell her.
I attack imperfection wherever it survives.
_
She's_ imperfect,
yet I still want her.


----------



## HellCat

That is so beautiful man I hate to even post under it.


I sincerely hope you make peace with your struggle internally. I understand. Feeling emotion at all almost fucking killed me this year. I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown.


----------



## HellCat

Tonight some twenty yr old girls, thought I was in my early 20s and were talking to me, trying to make plans to "hang" 

When I mentioned my exhusband they bugged out. OMG NO WAY. 

I'm thirty one, girls. 

WOW.

You know you are taking good care of yourself when the young'uns make jokes about you being ageless. I half expected one to call me well preserved. 

Usually I say I am a vampire, that is why. 

Thank you mama, you are a psycho bitch but you have gorgeous wrinkle free skin and a baby face.


----------



## Simplify

I tend to think that Sx is madness. I can sit in front of said passion for two weeks on end and walk around like a mindless zombie, and I'll have never felt better. Most of the time, it does come with a spark to create my next magnum opus, but when it isn't, it's like being said zombie with the biggest smile on my face. I'm very hot and cold about it because of that. But, I can't imagine life without forgetting everything and giving completely into obsession. I just make sure said object of affection isn't another person anymore. That's much too messy...


----------



## Golden Rose

It sounds extremely cheesy but I'm extremely happy, completely and hopelessly happy. There are imperfect things, there always are but I don't see them, I could but I won't and days like these are just what I really need, I'm absorbing everyone's relaxed happiness, it's like I'm feeding on their emotions and that's powerful and beautiful. It sounds silly, it sounds polished and rehearsed just like everything I say but it's true, I'm so outwardly focused that your feelings are my own and sometimes you're just left unfulfilled because you don't want it to end, y'know? I never thought I'd meet people so wonderful and able to reach me so deeply, I hoped so but what can I see I'm the delusional type! But really, friendship, love, connections, everything in between, this is all so precious. Never stop being such amazing, deep, complex, loving, hilarious people, never stop being who you are because you're just amazing to me, to us all.


----------



## CaptSwan

Today, this very day; it's a glorious day. Today, I've been honored by a wonderful, gentle, compassionate woman who; despite being fully aware of my flaws and imperfections, despite the distance and how different we are; has chosen me, your humble narrator, as her partner. I thank God and @LeoCat for making this possible; and, may this be shouted to the 4 winds and all corners of all fictional realms...

@Daleks_exterminate, I LOVE YOU!


----------



## daleks_exterminate

CaptSwan said:


> Today, this very day; it's a glorious day. Today, I've been honored by a wonderful, gentle, compassionate woman who; despite being fully aware of my flaws and imperfections, despite the distance and how different we are; has chosen me, your humble narrator, as her partner. I thank God and @_LeoCat_ for making this possible; and, may this be shouted to the 4 winds and all corners of all fictional realms...
> 
> @_Daleks_exterminate_, I LOVE YOU!


I love you!!!

i wish I could wrap my arms around you and say that to your face. I hate the distance, I hate the need to be patient... But I would wait forever to meet your lips if you asked me. You are so charming, funny, playful, witty, brilliant, determined, and extremely handsome. God.... How am I your girlfriend? :blushed:

Im so fucking happy. :kitteh:


----------



## CaptSwan

Daleks_exterminate said:


> I love you!!!
> 
> i wish I could wrap my arms around you and say that to your face. I hate the distance, I hate the need to be patient... But I would wait forever to meet your lips if you asked me. You are so charming, funny, playful, witty, brilliant, determined, and extremely handsome. God.... How am I your girlfriend? :blushed:
> 
> Im so fucking happy. :kitteh:


I'm so happy myself, too! :kitteh:

Because, we're both oddballs; and, our oddnesses complement each other :happy: Despite the distance; we will be together; I promise you that. And... You have me as boyfriend because you're simply amazing: because, you got me to open up and show myself to you, in a non-perverted way; and, you opened up and showed yourself to me. Thank you... From the bottom of my heart; thank you! :blushed:


----------



## zaczacattack

I'll drop everything and buy a one way plane ride to Pennsylvania the moment I have the necessary funds. I want your finger tips to stroke my chest, like we talked about.


----------



## Golden Rose

The last two pages were all about love, that's so nice! Congratulations Captn and Daleks, he's a great guy and I really wish the best for you two, it's things like these that keep my heart warm! This was such a beautiful confession, sorry if I'm prying though.

/////////////////////////////////////////////


* *




Sometimes I really wish I could do the same y'know? Of course I slap some sense back into my head fast, especially since my own situation doesn't warrant it, but sometimes I wish I could remove this filter and just say it and go for it. I even surprised my best friend, she knows that I'm usually much more unrestrained but the thing is that when I feel like something is so strong and it's got potential to be serious, I just can't help but fight the feeling for a while. It's been a month and as much as I tried talking myself out of it, I just couldn't, I'm too confident about this, too optimistic about the fact that it'll work, perhaps too delusional but the words he said were something I've always wanted to hear. And I'd love to explain why, I'd love to make a proper vent/confession but I just can't... all I know is that I've never felt so healthy in a long while and he doesn't even know how strong of an impact he has on me, how many times I just dreamed of being with him and falling asleep together, how strongly I've been wait for a sign reassuring me that I could go, that this was just right. I usually drown out the negatives, this is the first time I considered the darkest scenario possible in case this was all just an illusion or a trick and... it didn't last long because I know deep down that I can't help but trust him, I can't help but love him, I can't help but want him. He could break me, I don't mind, I could break his heart just as easily but I know I would never do that, I'd never want to do that, if anything I want to protect it and eat up all of the darkness that weighed it down. There are scary sides to this but there always are, I just don't see them because no matter what I know, I KNOW that it's gonna be alright, that I want to make him happy with all of my might. A lot of people take and give without much thought and it's lovely but not what I need, I want him to be honest, I want him to cut deep if needed, I want to work hard at this, I want to give him everything he's always dreamed of. I'm not an anxious person, I always look at the bright side of life and that's why all of this worry I feel about him only makes it all more powerful. Most people can't really read me, he can and it's worth it, it's never been so worth, I want him so much to the point it scares me but that's alright, I love that too.


----------



## Superfluous

1. I dont want to be strangers again.

2. I want to be pen pals with someone. Or I want to have regular phone calls with someone. Someone consistent. Someone I can click with and laugh with. Someone to forget that we're bored or lonely together. I am on the hunt!

3. my face is breaking out after a binge of junk food fest I just relished over the weekend. God's like, "this is what you get, you gluttonous swine" and I'm like, "Ill work on it." but yknow.. Since October rolled around, _Tis the season._


----------



## CaptSwan

Karma said:


> The last two pages were all about love, that's so nice! Congratulations Captn and Daleks, he's a great guy and I really wish the best for you two, it's things like these that keep my heart warm! This was such a beautiful confession, sorry if I'm prying though.
> 
> /////////////////////////////////////////////
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes I really wish I could do the same y'know? Of course I slap some sense back into my head fast, especially since my own situation doesn't warrant it, but sometimes I wish I could remove this filter and just say it and go for it. I even surprised my best friend, she knows that I'm usually much more unrestrained but the thing is that when I feel like something is so strong and it's got potential to be serious, I just can't help but fight the feeling for a while. It's been a month and as much as I tried talking myself out of it, I just couldn't, I'm too confident about this, too optimistic about the fact that it'll work, perhaps too delusional but the words he said were something I've always wanted to hear. And I'd love to explain why, I'd love to make a proper vent/confession but I just can't... all I know is that I've never felt so healthy in a long while and he doesn't even know how strong of an impact he has on me, how many times I just dreamed of being with him and falling asleep together, how strongly I've been wait for a sign reassuring me that I could go, that this was just right. I usually drown out the negatives, this is the first time I considered the darkest scenario possible in case this was all just an illusion or a trick and... it didn't last long because I know deep down that I can't help but trust him, I can't help but love him, I can't help but want him. He could break me, I don't mind, I could break his heart just as easily but I know I would never do that, I'd never want to do that, if anything I want to protect it and eat up all of the darkness that weighed it down. There are scary sides to this but there always are, I just don't see them because no matter what I know, I KNOW that it's gonna be alright, that I want to make him happy with all of my might. A lot of people take and give without much thought and it's lovely but not what I need, I want him to be honest, I want him to cut deep if needed, I want to work hard at this, I want to give him everything he's always dreamed of. I'm not an anxious person, I always look at the bright side of life and that's why all of this worry I feel about him only makes it all more powerful. Most people can't really read me, he can and it's worth it, it's never been so worth, I want him so much to the point it scares me but that's alright, I love that too.


Thank you, Karma! I have to say, I remember when you first joined PerC and, it's been amazing seeing your process of change and self discovery. I have to tell you, I was in a similar place to you regarding Daleks; but, if you really want this guy, if he makes you feel the way he makes you feel and you want what you wrote; then, go for it. Trust me, it's worth it; I'm a Six and, we get worried very easily about the future and second-guess each other a lot; but, when it came to her, it was the first time in my life that it felt right, that I wasn't afraid. I don't doubt that you like that guy and that, he likes you as well; so, don't be afraid and go for it. :happy: In my case, it's the best decision I've made in my entire life :blushed:


----------



## Golden Rose

CaptSwan said:


> Thank you, Karma! I have to say, I remember when you first joined PerC and, it's been amazing seeing your process of change and self discovery. I have to tell you, I was in a similar place to you regarding Daleks; but, if you really want this guy, if he makes you feel the way he makes you feel and you want what you wrote; then, go for it. Trust me, it's worth it; I'm a Six and, we get worried very easily about the future and second-guess each other a lot; but, when it came to her, it was the first time in my life that it felt right, that I wasn't afraid. I don't doubt that you like that guy and that, he likes you as well; so, don't be afraid and go for it. :happy: In my case, it's the best decision I've made in my entire life :blushed:


Under spoiler tag for extreme length, I'm not a wuss! :laughing:


* *




Awww thanks, your words really touched my heart because I've often felt ashamed about my PerC journey and honestly the worst part was that I knew my actual types upon joining but due to many personal reasons I sank into every pool of delusion there ever was, to extreme levels in which I was trying to be someone else or show myself as way more flawed and less polished or picture perfect than I actually was in an attempt to see how deep emotions flew around these parts. Honestly I still get a lot of WTF reactions but I've reached the point in which I'm completely open to explain/discuss it over skype/PMs and embrace this new kind of awareness, for best and for worst. It's something I don't want to discuss here in the open but I wish I did earlier as it could've saved me a lot of heartache but in a way, I'm thankful for the few bumps in the road because self discovery shouldn't be a smooth trail and learning to accept negativity is part of my main core resolutions. I often feel like most of us relatively new users seemingly binging on PerC and often moving with incredible intensity are a bit driven by some kind of "new kid in town" complex, we see how wonderful this place is and what amazing connections and knowledge people have built in this forums throughout the years and we simple want it all, we're hungry for passion. This is especially bad as a FeNi sexual 2 since I honestly live for love and appreciation and channeling and experiencing other people's lives and emotions! It's like going through PerC puberty XD, something most old timers have forgot, except our speed is probably even more dramatic. But this isn't something I really want to discuss in here, I don't really wish being replied to concerning this first paragraph, I'd rather keep it as some kind of stream of consciousness to be able to forget yet be amazed by how deeply an online forum can change the course of your life, how what people call "unreal relationships" are often one of the most powerful, honest and life changing experiences anyone could ever ask for. It's just a clarification and a "welcome back" perhaps! 

Now onto my favorite part! "In my case, it's the best decision I've made in my entire life" I can see the joy and the love oozing out of your words and it's really something beautiful and I'm 100% sure that you both have a wonderful future together ahead of you, I'm so genuinely happy for you both! Thanks for the encouragement and your kind words, perhaps I should really borrow some of that "fear is only in our minds, let's go for it" cp Six attitude because it's such a great way to deal with anything! He knows I like him, i know he likes me, we actually had a conversation about how both of us can be stubbornly waiting for the other to do something while running in circles haha but I honestly wouldn't want it any other way, other times I've been a slave of momentary infatuation that dissolved into nothing when all of the incompatibilities came to life, once I realized it wasn't a need but a quick fix, that we weren't able to appreciate each other on the deep level I'm always looking for. But in this case I can actually foresee a future together, it's been a long time for me, I can't be sure about him but... sometimes you just know! It's actually odd how what he fears the most is what I welcome the most, I'm so used to empty compliments and being taken for granted but he just sees right through me, he's seen the worst and he doesn't care! Any mistakes, misgivings or cracks, he's a fixer not a breaker, he wants to fix them out of genuine feeling and that's one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard; I'm sort of similar from a completely different standpoint as I usually advise, fix emotions, bring out potential, reassure, nag and care too much and honestly it's something that could bring amazing balance. Sometimes I just want to hold him close and kiss his forehead and tell him that he's perfect the way he is, others I want him to pin me against a wall and kiss me and while of course we can't do it's like... it's not even necessary in a way? I feel both comfortable and on edge around him and that's exactly how I want it to be, he does things I need deep down without me asking and right now I feel like a 7th grader doodling hearts everywhere lol. But ain't that how it often works? To care about another person so much it makes _you_ a better person as well. He wants perfection, he needs perfection and I want to give it to him, if we decide to take this to the further level I only want to give him all that he could never have. 

I probably shouldn't have posted all of this (and I'm feeling somehow really creepy/inappropriate) but perhaps a tinge of "YOLO" once in a while can't be so bad, even for the most controlled judgers.
:blushed::blushed:


----------



## Animal

@_Karma_
I mistyped so many times too, and the funny thing is that my gut instinct about my type, 12 years ago, was type 4- and then I went and typed at 5 because someone compared me (an addict at that time, but a lesser addict) to the other 4s in my school who were heroin & coke addicts... and convinced me I "wasn't as bad as them" (which I SOOO wanted to believe).. then I came to PerC 12 years later and typed at 5, 3, and 8.. before finally typing at 4. So I know how you feel <3

@_Daleks_exterminate_ and @_CaptSwan_
aawwawwWwwwwwwwww!!!! :3 
Thank you for those posts.. I really needed to smile right now..


----------



## Golden Rose

@Animal
Thanks for sharing your experience, it really makes me feel better about it all! Honestly, it's extremely easy to get overwhelmed by typology and everyone's different stances on it and sometimes our own lives don't always fall perfectly into place and we look for a quick fix, an easy escape. As image types, we probably have it worse than others as people's opinion influence us plenty, one way or another. But the moment you figure out who you really are, learn how to embrace your flaws and grow out of them and finally receive the closure you were looking for, then you just know that it was all worth it, no matter what.


----------



## CaptSwan

Karma said:


> Under spoiler tag for extreme length, I'm not a wuss! :laughing:
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Awww thanks, your words really touched my heart because I've often felt ashamed about my PerC journey and honestly the worst part was that I knew my actual types upon joining but due to many personal reasons I sank into every pool of delusion there ever was, to extreme levels in which I was trying to be someone else or show myself as way more flawed and less polished or picture perfect than I actually was in an attempt to see how deep emotions flew around these parts. Honestly I still get a lot of WTF reactions but I've reached the point in which I'm completely open to explain/discuss it over skype/PMs and embrace this new kind of awareness, for best and for worst. It's something I don't want to discuss here in the open but I wish I did earlier as it could've saved me a lot of heartache but in a way, I'm thankful for the few bumps in the road because self discovery shouldn't be a smooth trail and learning to accept negativity is part of my main core resolutions. I often feel like most of us relatively new users seemingly binging on PerC and often moving with incredible intensity are a bit driven by some kind of "new kid in town" complex, we see how wonderful this place is and what amazing connections and knowledge people have built in this forums throughout the years and we simple want it all, we're hungry for passion. This is especially bad as a FeNi sexual 2 since I honestly live for love and appreciation and channeling and experiencing other people's lives and emotions! It's like going through PerC puberty XD, something most old timers have forgot, except our speed is probably even more dramatic. But this isn't something I really want to discuss in here, I don't really wish being replied to concerning this first paragraph, I'd rather keep it as some kind of stream of consciousness to be able to forget yet be amazed by how deeply an online forum can change the course of your life, how what people call "unreal relationships" are often one of the most powerful, honest and life changing experiences anyone could ever ask for. It's just a clarification and a "welcome back" perhaps!
> 
> Now onto my favorite part! "In my case, it's the best decision I've made in my entire life" I can see the joy and the love oozing out of your words and it's really something beautiful and I'm 100% sure that you both have a wonderful future together ahead of you, I'm so genuinely happy for you both! Thanks for the encouragement and your kind words, perhaps I should really borrow some of that "fear is only in our minds, let's go for it" cp Six attitude because it's such a great way to deal with anything! He knows I like him, i know he likes me, we actually had a conversation about how both of us can be stubbornly waiting for the other to do something while running in circles haha but I honestly wouldn't want it any other way, other times I've been a slave of momentary infatuation that dissolved into nothing when all of the incompatibilities came to life, once I realized it wasn't a need but a quick fix, that we weren't able to appreciate each other on the deep level I'm always looking for. But in this case I can actually foresee a future together, it's been a long time for me, I can't be sure about him but... sometimes you just know! It's actually odd how what he fears the most is what I welcome the most, I'm so used to empty compliments and being taken for granted but he just sees right through me, he's seen the worst and he doesn't care! Any mistakes, misgivings or cracks, he's a fixer not a breaker, he wants to fix them out of genuine feeling and that's one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard; I'm sort of similar from a completely different standpoint as I usually advise, fix emotions, bring out potential, reassure, nag and care too much and honestly it's something that could bring amazing balance. Sometimes I just want to hold him close and kiss his forehead and tell him that he's perfect the way he is, others I want him to pin me against a wall and kiss me and while of course we can't do it's like... it's not even necessary in a way? I feel both comfortable and on edge around him and that's exactly how I want it to be, he does things I need deep down without me asking and right now I feel like a 7th grader doodling hearts everywhere lol. But ain't that how it often works? To care about another person so much it makes _you_ a better person as well. He wants perfection, he needs perfection and I want to give it to him, if we decide to take this to the further level I only want to give him all that he could never have.
> 
> I probably shouldn't have posted all of this (and I'm feeling somehow really creepy/inappropriate) but perhaps a tinge of "YOLO" once in a while can't be so bad, even for the most controlled judgers.
> :blushed::blushed:


I know exactly what you mean, regarding that first paragraph; I went through like half the Enneagram before I found my type. :laughing:

And, regarding you and that guy; I'm very happy to hear that you guys are going well. My only advise is that, you should go for it; because, sometimes, by taking that jump, you can find the most beautiful gift that is love. I know I don't regret it :blushed:


----------



## Sina

Mmm...tremendous pain, severe distress and eventual overcoming (although there is a long road ahead with the recovery process re: ptsd in particular) has marked all year as I shared earlier, but especially the last two-three months in my life that have been extremely challenging (which is saying a lot given my eventful life lol). through it all, i have made progress that has been very hard earned. however, all of that has culminated in the greatest of gifts i could have possibly received. My closest friends here know what I am talking about. <3 it still feels like a dream. 

people irl..friends here..have seen me happier than i have been in a long time. i have been acquainted so very intimately with the tremendous potency of my own passion and love, with my capacity for loving unconditionally, wholeheartedly and fully even after all had seemingly been lost. it's as though i have regained paradise at the end of a grueling struggle, though i did my best not to be attached to one outcome or another. words will never do it justice, i have felt as empowered as a woman giving birth...a catalyst for creation and potential. to humble oneself in love, to seek not only love's pleasures but also embrace its pain, its cauterizing longing...to bleed willingly and joyfully as gibran has said..to hold nothing back...is the most transformative of experiences. i have always believed in sharing in the lover's pain, their suffering, and this is exactly what i have done, unconditionally. here i am..witness to what most have called as improbable as miracles. i want to thank him (and already have...and many more expressions of love remain) for being so instrumental in teaching me i was capable of such love. i would not be the woman i am today if it weren't for him. a lot of work lies ahead, but no matter what, this is and will have been worth my life, my greatest treasures and universes combined. 

i have been away from here, with a lot going on irl. now, i have this new phase unfolding and a lot of other major changes lined up so my participation here is going to dwindle even further than it has already. i am happy to be in touch with my good friends here..and that won't change. i want to specifically thank, as always, @_KINGoftheAMAZONS_, @_Animal_, @_LeoCat_ and also I must mention @_Swordsman of Mana_ who has been a great and kind listener, who has shared in the beauty and ecstasy of this renewed beginning. 



_____________________________________


@_KINGoftheAMAZONS_
i would never have healed how i did if it weren't for you. the sleeve tattoo in your honour is the barest of ways i can honour you. i call you my bodhisattva, my goddess for a reason. 

your love for me has empowered me without limit through my life's most damning struggles; your infinite kindness and beauty have inspired me to become a better human being. you, more than anyone i know, has been there for me always and even more since the day last year when the floodgates of hell opened in my life, to say the least. from the day i have laid myself bare before you, vulnerable, raw and flayed to the bone, you have been nothing but the most amazingly loving, loyal, committed, consistently kind and breathtakingly inspiring sister, friend and the very love of my life. my love for you is as unconditional as the love i had for my father (whom i loved more than life itself), as the love i have for this man you adore to no end, as the love i had for my late cousin whose memories i carry in my heart and have permanently carved into my skin. you have more than earned every bit of this.

you are my pleasure, my overcoming, my peace and my happiness. you are irreplaceable and indispensable. you are in my blood, my bones, my breath, the sun blazing in my chest as i had once called you. you are indestructible poetry. men will come and go, but we are bonded with blood, steel and pain, sisters in love for as long as we live. i can no more curtail my love for you than i can excise my own heart from my chest, for as long as i live. you know i don't take commitment lightly. i am committed to you and us, and i am eternally grateful for you..beyond words can ever express. 

thanks to you, i have been witness to such unflinching, enduring and invincible love for me, that i don't know what i ever did to deserve a woman like you. your courage is boundless. your gentleness and your power have healed me indescribably. i could write books and erect monuments in your honour, and it would be insufficient. <3 i just love you so much. 

thank you. 


@_Animal_

i love you. i could go on..you know close we are..you and @_LeoCat_...i love you both so much. you two have been there for me every step of the way, with your understanding and wisdom. animal, you have also inspired me to be able to love no matter what...to keep the dream breathing...to as i just said above...bleed willingly and joyfully in love. if there's anyone besides KoA, myself and him, i have seen put this into practice..with such exquisite passion and vulnerability..it is you.  you have always listened, always responded with love for me and him, always understood me...we actually have more in common that most would realize. it's fascinating.  it means the world to me that we connect over love, longing, pain, beauty, art..day after day..like it's the first. i love you. 
LeoCat, you held hope when it lacerated me to do so..your wisdom, compassion and insights ..your friendship has been so invaluable. you have laughed and cried with me; you have infused me with dreams i was too hurt to dream; you have been so instrumental in my healing all year. i can never thank you enough. we really need a good ol' cake and champagne session asap. <3 you . it's been wonderful witnessing so much..its overwhelming but heartwarming. i truly wish that every woman develops the kinds of friendship we have here. it's very rare for me to have female friends, but then i have found these ladies, and we have this immensely powerful bond that defies definition. i love it. thank you for sharing in my tears, losses and triumphs. 

i don't take any of this or any of you for granted. 

p.s. all of us have been prophetic as fuck all this time. i love..love how intuitive and perceptive we are. <3 it's wonderful to function as women who are as in touch with our instincts as we are.


----------



## HellCat

Beautiful Naqsh. I love you Amazons so fucking much. 

I just spent 45 minutes getting a lecture on how to build a prettier flogger by my craftsman bdsm enthusiast brother.

I am surprised the siblings haven't gathered to brainstorm and engineer it yet. Usually that is what happens.

I have a feeling he won't think its pretty enough and take it apart and fix it for me. 

In any other family that would be construed as weird.


----------



## Animal

@_Naqsh @LeoCat
_


----------



## Animal

Confession:
I'm going to write a lot of short posts because I need to get up to 10,000. I simply _cannot accept_ the pink color and the hideous font on my name. :crying:


----------



## HellCat

After a lifetime of dominating. 

I like being told what to do by the right person.


----------



## Golden Rose

Nothing like a prolonged and wonderful intimate conversation can manage to lift and change the course of my entire mood, as ridiculous as it sounds, I can't truly be motivated or passionate or inspired or completely satisfied without any kind of interaction. I love people, I love their stories, I love their thoughts and feelings, I love what we can read between the daily social lies we constantly delude ourselves into and some people are so magnetic, you feel like dropping most of your barriers and mirroring their wonderful and heartfelt honesty. @Animal is an amazing, sweet and interesting woman and she really sparked my creative strike back and I couldn't be any more grateful  that instant connection between sx 2s and 4s is something magical. To the point that everything else pales in comparison (though I can feel the emotion of more mundane conversations too). Honestly, I just love talking to people, my headspace gets cramped if I cannot trade feels.

@LeoCat's post also spoke to me because, while my dominating was probably more subtle and at times masked as accepting and pleasing, it's really hard for me to flip off the dom switch, to let someone else take control, especially since every time I destroyed and rebuilt myself for another person, it was intentionally so, it was my own will to. Let's not even start about what it sexually implies... much more assertive there! But the right person is worth everything, even that kind of effort, taking off your crown for a while and bask into their happiness and fulfillment, especially considering how much I adore the way they willingly make small sacrifices for me, the way he makes me feel completely loved. An occasional little gift, another way not turn into into my mother, although I'm aware I won't but there should never be a chance to learn from our (or other people's) mistakes that we deliberately ignore.

Oh and about that _thing_. THE thing. I'll immediately start working on that, it's been years and i might slip, I might fall, I might crash, it might take forever and the end result will probably still be comfortably unhealthy to the standards of many in a way but I'll be damned if I won't _try_. I promised him, I promised her, I promised her too, back then when we were closer. Perhaps I should make a promise to myself as well. I love PerC, I've never been so much in love with a forum nor carried through after any kind of confusing delusions and borrowed identities I've built myself through, I've never been able to be so honest, so genuinely connected and loved... well I was but not _this way_. Hateful debate posters and uneducated trolls aside, I love everyone, I love typology so much because of how easily it helps me read people even more accurately and finally take care to notice the corners of my soul, to share more about them. I probably borrowed her 4-ish communication style but scratch that, you people are all so cool and genuine. Flaunt that! <3


----------



## Alette

Karma said:


> So do I. :wink::blushed:


Glad your happy!


----------



## Animal

I hate the idea of "randomness."

I cringe when someone says "I'm so random!"

It stirs me to the bone. ITS SO DAMN ANNOYING and disingenuous.

Everything comes from somewhere. There is always an internal flow. There's always a connection from one idea to the next. Someone saying "OMG I'm so random!" ... is hiding something, lying, or running away from their own mind. They are distracting from the fluid train of thought, or not admitting what it actually is. Things dont just come from nowhere. Energy can't be created or destroyed.

I don't mind when things SEEM random, if something SEEMS to come from nowhere - but when I have thoughts that seem random, and someone asks why I thought of that, I know what my train of thought was, no matter how obscure it might be to someone else. I'm not saying that I would necessarily reveal my thought process (I am entitled to privacy after all), but I would not say "Oh I'm so random." That's a lie.

Pink makes me think of my hair dye back in the day which makes me think of the time I was addicted to drugs which makes me think about being undead which makes me think about things I hate most in myself; the darkest hour of my past. It's not_ random_ that I have a reaction to my name being pink. I do love the color, which is why I dyed my hair that color for years. But it represents a very specific side of my soul.

Calling myself ANIMAL isn't random. There are a million reasons. I'm sure I've brought it up all over the site, and tied it into my general philosophy and self-image.

My musical choices aren't random. Chord changes, climaxes and connections happen because of an emotional bridge between one part of the song and the next. I FUCKING HATE SONGS that have sudden random noises that don't connect emotionally in any way, just for the sake of unpredictability or weirdness. How goddam annoying.

FUCK people who refuse to see their center and truly be invested in things, and lose themselves in disconnected minutia. I have no time in my life for this kind of crap. I am hungry for soul, depth, guts and blood. 

Everything I do, every post, every comment, every "thank," every VM and PM.. is of my essence. I don't care how trite it is. It is still part of my essence if it comes through my hands, my eyes, my body, my voice. And there is nothing "random" about it. If something seems to come from nowhere, I try to figure out its roots, its patterns, and follow it back to the center. I gather that most people don't function this way. I see that there is music that jumps around from thing to thing, doesn't flow. I see people having conversations like that. Maybe I am just not following, or maybe I'm too goddam intense for this superficial world. Maybe it's me, not them. But whatever it is, it irks the shit out of me.


----------



## HellCat

Most people refuse to see things as the truth of what is, They would rather project their own "truths" based on how they subjectively see things. 

Which is a clusterfuck, when you are trying to get to the truth in something objectively.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Animal said:


> I hate the idea of "randomness."
> 
> I cringe when someone says "I'm so random!"


I don't tend to care for it much either. Well, I might say I'm being random sometimes, but it's more being self-conscious over bringing something up, and can take effort to explain (and often fitting this definition: "odd and unpredictable in an amusing way"). But I always think there's some sense to the madness, even when I can't quite explain it. =P I'm not sure why some are proud of being random, it's like saying you are pointless. Okay then.


----------



## Animal

Kink said:


> I don't tend to care for it much either. Well, I might say I'm being random sometimes, but it's more being self-conscious over bringing something up, and can take effort to explain (and often fitting this definition: "oddandunpredictableinanamusingway"). But I always think there's some sense to the madness, even when I can't quite explain it. =P I'm not sure why some are proud of being random, it's like saying you are pointless. Okay then.


Exactly!! The thing that annoys me is not so much the act of being random, which even i am guilty of sometimes - but the pride people take in it. Being disconnected and confusing is not something to boast about!


----------



## HellCat

It is so weird to enjoy someone around everyday and look forward to living with them.

I love it. 

I just have always considered it an impossibility.


----------



## CaptSwan

LeoCat said:


> It is so weird to enjoy someone around everyday and look forward to living with them.
> 
> I love it.
> 
> I just have always considered it an impossibility.


At the risk of you going Roman on me and decide to flog me to death; but, that's the most adorable thing I've ever read.


----------



## Superfluous

TODAY IS HALLOW'S EVE. HUZZAH. Im here in NYC and I can feel the spark in the air, it gives me "huh, the hellmouth in Astoria is open" vibe, my bunny senses are tingling *wiggles nose*. Not interested in the demons, but I am interested in the mischief. I'm up late because I've planted four pranks throughout the house for people to come across with in the morning and I have five more planned through out the day/night. MUAHAHA, I FEEL ALIVE.

this guy thought i was after his boyfriend, and had to "put me into place" today. We ended up bonding over the fact that we naturally flirt to talk, but it _doesn't actually mean_ were interested in the confused soul we're talking to. It was so refreshing, to be easily understood like that, though it was started as drama. We're having lunch on Monday, he said he wants to keep me because I don't look at him with a glint in my eye that says "omg, u gay person, u will be the best friend by default" I told him "It's because only have the glint in my eye for pie and leather bound journals" he called me subtly flamboyant and insulted me. I insulted him back and then _we both laughed_. Wow, I think I found the one. 

I need a new obsession, and fast. Something to get myself out of my head, and into the world. I dont remember the last time I ever had to ask for a new obsession, it sort of just hits me in the face like.. someone threw a brick into my face lolol. Very hard and well. Speaking of things that are thrown into peoples faces, [Flashback] in seventh grade, this guy disrespected me in class, and he was like.. a yard away from me. And I fucking _tossed_ - not threw since threw is with force - but tossed a dictionary in his face. And the teacher yelled_ at him_. I look back, and I wish I could laugh, but I just cringe because I was crazy and I felt like I was normal and I dont know why we still remained friends. His mom did try to bat me with her sandal.. I do believe I deserved that. I didnt let her do it obviously, but I deserved the attempt lolol. [/flashback]


----------



## Animal

Now that the font has been changed, I am basking in the pink and purring.

The color pink permeated the darkest and most furious years of my past. Pink is the devilish flame, luring me back to powerful, wild hell. The *Animal*, stripped of humanity. Fearless, shameless and apathetic, with nothing to lose. Free. 

Freedom is hell.


----------



## Golden Rose

Maybe you're fucking right, maybe you're all fucking right but you know what? We're all beautifully rotten. I need more drinks and i k=need more rage, although girls like me never manage to be happy for a long time, they never manage to get more than thrills and it's ok. that's what pushes us to survive, to climb on top of life? Am I wrong? We're all disgusting, all of us. Some of us just don't give up. Am I mistyped? Am I finally getting drunk? I just want the world to collapse yet I love it. Fuck me.


----------



## Superfluous

Halloween 2014 is the happiest day I've ever had in years. At 5am, the morning after Hallows Eve I was reflecting upon the day, and I realized at this moment: I was content. I felt good -- I didnt feel happy, I _was_ happy. Since my 18th birthday & my dad's death following after, my life has been in the shit bowl but I convinced myself otherwise. A lie that was growing old and pathetic with each passing day. But damn, I am happy, I'm so fucking happy. Please God don't let this feeling fade, don't let the universe come swipe the rug from my beneath my feet as it usually does. Let me please remember how content, and lucky I feel tonight. Please let remind how thankful I am every single day, and that any feeling of restlessness or anxiety is all in my mind. Please let me anchor down, and make this happiness my home. I could die. What I felt tonight with my aunt and my cousins made me realize how much I've missed in my lifetime, and how easy it was to downplay the idea of family, just because I never could see how much your own blood could feel like bestfriends. Now that I have that, and I'm explaining, I can't stop crying. I swear I will never let it go.


----------



## HellCat

Midnight I saw a large, grizzled man in a pink bunny costume working at a Walmart I ran to for cleaning supplies.



Moments like this make me love people and the random ways they can surprise.


----------



## CaptSwan

A couple of days ago, I asked my brother; trying to figure out if I'm the people-pleaser I think I am: "You think I do what people tell me to do so they like me?" He looks at me, all stoic and says: "You? No... If you don't want to do something, you just call it boring and don't do it". The next day, he blind-sides me by telling me that, I do care about people; but, that I hide it under a disguise of aloofness and laziness. He took me by surprise... And, I realized that; he's right. I have a confusing stance regarding the world... I care about 6 people in this planet; the rest can all just kiss my meaty ass :laughing:

Thanks to him, to my little brother, my mentor, my conscience (Type 1w9)... I realized what I want: freedom. The freedom to live and do as I please; without any chains and restrains. I realized that, my fear, the fears that pop up in my mind; all manifest themselves in situations where people question me, where I'm not able to follow my gut instinct. That, my rage comes from the fact of not being able to do as I want; to govern myself and conduct my life according to the tune in my head. It irritates me having to follow the social pleasantry of dealing with people I don't care about; a pleasantry I somewhat keep up out of respect of the people who give me a home and so much more, my family.

Even my love, my sweetheart; told me that my heart craves even more independence and freedom than hers (a compliment; given that she's a 7). Thanks to the help of people I've met here; valuable people to whom I owe plenty, I've rediscovered myself. I've felt again the kid who'd tell his parents he wouldn't play in a torn up treehouse at school where a kid had died and play there anyway; because I wanted to (and then lie about having done so :laughing. I want things and events on my terms; I know exactly the kind of people I want around me, and, I hate and despise bland and tasteless personalities. Either you're smooth as silk, cool as air or hot as hell; but, if you want me to be your friend, you better have something unique to contribute, otherwise, piss off.

To people outside those 6 I mention above, I'm a good person; I'm a sympathetic person, a good leader who has his character, temper and who wants things, in the words of Joe Cabbot in "Reservoir Dogs", "My way or the highway!". It's funny when a group of 6 professionals tell you that, the group could not advance if it wasn't for you. I can joke, I can tell dirty jokes; I can be lewd and flirtatious (nowadays only with my love) and use my silver tongue to my advantage. And, you know what? I love it. It's part of who I am; for better or for worse. I have my own code of conduct; which serves me as guide in this world. I have a fondness for power, raw power; there's something magnetic in taming and using that power at your whim and desire. My body nowadays has taught me that, excess can be devastating for me; but, in gaining discipline I've found a biggest source of power, in harnessing that energy. Ironic, huh?

My journey is only beginning; but, I already know that, I'll do anything in my power to avoid my hell... That suburban lifestyle... God, how much I hate and despise that. Wearing khakis, mowing lawns, picket fences... (pukes) Abominable.


----------



## Animal

I feel so peaceful when I'm not obsessed with anyone.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

I got really into this ridiculous teenage girl soap opera called "vampire diaries". I know... Judge me, I'm judging myself. . a good friend of mine likes it too. Today she dropped a bomb on me. 

"You're a lot like Katherine "

She's playful, loves fun, kind of Peter Pan like, doesn't want to grow up, loves mind games, is ruthless, indifferent, will kill who she wants when she wants simply because she wants, when she wants something she gets it, she's highly selfish & impulsive, she's a spitfire, she'll play people to get what she wants, and is highly sexual


so basically close friend said I'm a manipulative scheming bitch. Worse though, I actually like that character. :laughing:


----------



## HellCat

Niece #1 Shes eight and some months. Aunt LeoCat, you hold too much stuff inside. IN your head. THAT COULD KILL YOU

Me (doing weights on home gym, almost dropped them in shock from her outburst) Whaaa? 

#1 I heard what mom and dad said about exuncle.. He is HANS from Frozen. Hes evil. You're Anna. You're a redhead and so nice and you love people! 

Me- Were you eavesdropping again?

Fuck,you kids have a great spy team. You could teach the fbi a thing or two I think. 

#1 Don't get out of this!! I know you are angry and sad he has been so mean. You keep it all in your head! I can tell aunt LeoCat! Hes evil! I hate exuncleE! 

Me- You are a little girl, its not good to hate and worry ok? He has a reason to be angry with me. Because I never loved him, I loved him more like I do your daddy.. like a little brother. 

That doesn't make it right to act like he did but still people who are hurt do stupid shit. Don't worry.. you are getting the house from me. He just wanted to scare me because hes angry. Not hurt you guys. I am happy now that matters more. You are sweet, thank you for telling me how you feel. I love you

#1 If you ever need to talk about it. You can come to me. I know you keep things inside and don't talk to people like I do. 

Me- Thank you honey. If you are going to listen in.. come to me so we can discuss it and don't "hold it in your head for five months. That worrying isn't good for you"

This is the same kid who two and a half years ago, angrily cornered me telling me " I hear you are getting a divorce from exuncle!!! WHY! Is it so you can date douchebags? 

I find its best to always be honest with her to a degree, but its difficult trying to weasel yourself away from an 8 yr old bent on relationship counseling.

Truthfully she is correct. I do hold everything in my head and I don't share but I am being broken of that by someone important to me. She is glad I am happy now <3 but shes secretly worried I will make myself sick because I tend to be stoic and rarely emote- no ranting, no open discussions, no yelling like my siblings and family. 

I am quite reserved. I always have been. 

These kids are always trying to trip me up and find out about my father the cult leader too. Sometimes they will say something like "daddy told me I can ask you about your daddy .. so why don't you talk to him anymore? IS he dead? "

Thats how they found out about my divorce when she was 5, pretending to know details , angrily cornering me and throwing me off balance with her sneak attack. Its a bit like living with the Baudelaire children from Lemony Snicketts. 

I am waiting for the day one of them builds a death ray.


----------



## Golden Rose

I'm not posting because I don't feel it, I'm posting exactly because I'm feeling it hard.
I hate being alone with the war in my mind.


----------



## knife

I wish I could wrap my hands around her and forget the world for long stretches of time at a time. I wish I was there with her.

But I'm not. Not yet. I will be soon, I hope. And in the meantime all I can do is invite her into my life, turn living into spending quality time with her. <3


Kitty Sith Lord


----------



## Donovan

i feel a longing for actual companionship. 

not just sex, and not just being out and doing "fun stuff"/stuff that now gives me a headache--but to be around someone that is an actual friend; someone that you can trust, and that you can be genuine with. 

a person that just feels right. 


but it's hard to even know what that feeling would be. i can imagine it in my head, i can feel peace and i can feel time slow down to normal human level, and i can feel all the positivity of being centered in time with another person--here in my head... but what is it in the moment? 

is it a feeling that can be forced, or manufactured? is that what it is for most people? do we all have a picture of what is "good", already fit to us like the color of our eyes, and then we go about trying to fit that one picture onto multiple people throughout or lives? does our attraction have anything to do with the other person at all, beyond how we see them/ourselves? 

can you just eventually love someone? is it a choice? as if, one way or another, we are all equipped to be compatible in some way, and the people you're attracted to just happened to be showing a facet that was higher up on your priority of "likable characteristics", and so now you fell for them, as opposed to one of the other ~6 billion people on the planet? 

or do we operate on differing wavelengths, coming counter with the lengths of others and meeting opposition, while paralleling others still, and finding chemistry? 

are we just the same bunch of disparate pieces, only mixed in a slightly different combination, and because of this delude ourselves about our own and others' intricacies? is attraction even relevant beyond continuation? 



... or is there something more? something innately spiritual? is there someone out there with a soul, a spirit--an "anything"--that speaks to your _"anything"_? 


are there people that bring life into your view of the world, people that make time seem endless? people that--even if they can't fit your inner amorphous picture of "a mate"--they at least allow you to look upon your life and the world accurately, and still provide a section of it that you would actually want in the end. 


is romance, or the idea of it and love, something we created, like religion? did we have some inner need that didn't exist in reality, or that didn't have a realistic counterpart for our own content, and so we attempted to overlay this feel-good notion onto the world--tried to contain and fit it to our view of how things work? strew this longing and the reward of finding it through all of our myths and literature, and after a while began to believe that it existed anywhere but outside of our own heads? 




... i'd like to believe that there is some amount of sweetness in the world (as dramatic as that sounds coming from a 26 year old male). i'd like to believe that i can find a person that makes everything else just go away--not in terms of responsibility, or in terms of actual reality--but in the way that while you can see everything just as clearly as you did before knowing this person, you're able to realize how it doesn't really matter to begin with.


----------



## Animal

Geek moment

J.K. Rowling writes Harry Potter Halloween tale profiling 'malicious' Dolores Umbridge - Books - TODAY.com

This made me SO HAPPY


----------



## CaptSwan

Animal said:


> Geek moment
> 
> J.K. Rowling writes Harry Potter Halloween tale profiling 'malicious' Dolores Umbridge - Books - TODAY.com
> 
> This made me SO HAPPY


I never would have taken you for a Harry Potter fan. I always pictured you as more, solely fascinated by LOTR and the whole Middle Earth mythos. It's curious indeed :happy:


----------



## Animal

CaptSwan said:


> I never would have taken you for a Harry Potter fan. I always pictured you as more, solely fascinated by LOTR and the whole Middle Earth mythos. It's curious indeed :happy:


I love LOTR, Harry Potter and Star Wars, and at various times have been obsessed with each. I don't watch tv at all, never did, so I never got into Star Trek simply because it was on tv. I have enjoyed the movies I've seen of Star Trek though I have not seen all of them. I love the X men movies and I made one exception to my tv avoidance to watch the Game of Thrones series.

But I'm not a REAL geek with Star Wars because I didn't read the books, which is sad because i love the movies so much. I've read all the Harry Potter and LOTR books, and written papers on LOTR in school. So yeah its fair to say LOTR is the biggest & first influence but the rest are still important too.

Also I'm not a real real geek. I haven't read any biographies of Tolkien or Rowling. I haven't read much additional material except a few online things that I happen to stumble on for HP. I haven't read the Silmarillion or any other Tolkien stuff outside LOTR series & Hobbit. Where music is concerned I am a real geek - I have a handful of favorites throughout my life and I've read their biographies, as many as I could get my hands on, or their own books, and I've watched a billion interviews, and collected all their side material, and probably know their home town, etc. I'm quite obsessive about music. And I can go into deep analysis of when they started applying different types of music theory or how and why their lyrics improved and what the meaning was behind it. Music is where my real geekery is, but I don't like to talk about it much, nor do I like to listen to the music I love most in front of other people. I take walks with headphones even, to get away from whoever I live with throughout my life, or long drives when its too cold. There is certain music I'm willing to blast aloud but most of it is too personal.

As a kid I was obsessed with Les Mis to the point where I read three different translations of the book (that book is HUGE), I started learning French so I could read the original, I memorized the musical in English and some songs in French and German and Norwegian (which I didn't even speak, but I got people to translate it to me), and I wrote a 400ish page book around age 11/12 with a character based on Eponine in the lead, and put together a photo book to go along with this story, and got my friends to pose in photos & dressed up as Eponine to play that role. I also started taking singing lessons at 11 for the sheer purpose of playing Eponine and was auditioning for Les Mis when I lost my voice. I performed "On My Own" in French, German and English at restaurants or bars where I was employed to sing and play. And I was able to play through the whole play on piano (granted I used fake books) and transpose the male songs into my own key so I could sing along (granted I could transpose chord charts while sight-reading, so that is something I could do for any play, but the point is that I bothered singing through all these songs often). THAT is a serious obsession.

My obsession with Phantom of the Opera was only second to Les Mis as a kid. I became more obsessed with LOTR and other non-musical fantasy after I lost my voice, though I did read the LOTR series & Hobbit as a kid and enjoyed it.



Anyway... long rant aside @CaptSwan
What made you think I would be a LOTR person? Just curious :blushed:


----------



## CaptSwan

Animal said:


> I love LOTR, Harry Potter and Star Wars, and at various times have been obsessed with each. I don't watch tv at all, never did, so I never got into Star Trek simply because it was on tv. I have enjoyed the movies I've seen of Star Trek though I have not seen all of them. I love the X men movies and I made one exception to my tv avoidance to watch the Game of Thrones series.
> 
> But I'm not a REAL geek with Star Wars because I didn't read the books, which is sad because i love the movies so much. I've read all the Harry Potter and LOTR books, and written papers on LOTR in school. So yeah its fair to say LOTR is the biggest & first influence but the rest are still important too.
> 
> Also I'm not a real real geek. I haven't read any biographies of Tolkien or Rowling. I haven't read much additional material except a few online things that I happen to stumble on for HP. I haven't read the Silmarillion or any other Tolkien stuff outside LOTR series & Hobbit. Where music is concerned I am a real geek - I have a handful of favorites throughout my life and I've read their biographies, as many as I could get my hands on, or their own books, and I've watched a billion interviews, and collected all their side material, and probably know their home town, etc. I'm quite obsessive about music. And I can go into deep analysis of when they started applying different types of music theory or how and why their lyrics improved and what the meaning was behind it. Music is where my real geekery is, but I don't like to talk about it much, nor do I like to listen to the music I love most in front of other people. I take walks with headphones even, to get away from whoever I live with throughout my life, or long drives when its too cold. There is certain music I'm willing to blast aloud but most of it is too personal.
> 
> As a kid I was obsessed with Les Mis to the point where I read three different translations of the book (that book is HUGE), I started learning French so I could read the original, I memorized the musical in English and some songs in French and German and Norwegian (which I didn't even speak, but I got people to translate it to me), and I wrote a 400ish page book around age 11/12 with a character based on Eponine in the lead, and put together a photo book to go along with this story, and got my friends to pose in photos & dressed up as Eponine to play that role. I also started taking singing lessons at 11 for the sheer purpose of playing Eponine and was auditioning for Les Mis when I lost my voice. I performed "On My Own" in French, German and English at restaurants or bars where I was employed to sing and play. And I was able to play through the whole play on piano (granted I used fake books) and transpose the male songs into my own key so I could sing along (granted I could transpose chord charts while sight-reading, so that is something I could do for any play, but the point is that I bothered singing through all these songs often). THAT is a serious obsession.
> 
> My obsession with Phantom of the Opera was only second to Les Mis as a kid. I became more obsessed with LOTR and other non-musical fantasy after I lost my voice, though I did read the LOTR series & Hobbit as a kid and enjoyed it.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway... long rant aside @_CaptSwan_
> What made you think I would be a LOTR person? Just curious :blushed:


Well, it was actually by hearing your music and seeing your photos on your profile. If you don't mind me saying so, you have a very elvish vibe to you; there's a pic of you with a white dress and crown of flowers that reminds me of Galadriel. I don't call you Arwen simply because I prefer Galadriel (What can I say? I have a crush on Cate Blanchett :blushed and, although I could see you as a GoT fan (Seeing you like a Dayneris Targaryan); I just couldn't see you really resonating or relating to the Harry Potter universe. In my own opinion; that world seems too bland for my personal taste and, I certainly could not see you being a fan of it.

And don't worry, I understand your obsession :happy: When I was a kid, I got obsessed with the tales of Edgar Allan Poe, like The Mask of the Red Death, The Tell-Tale Heart; The Gold Bug, especially. And, most of all, my obsession with movies :laughing: It's why I haven't set foot in a movie theater in like, a decade; because I see movies being remade into grotesque forms. Call me old-fashioned; but, I prefer seeing Claude Reins as the Invisible Man than Kevin Bacon; or seeing King Kong's lusty face when he grabs Fay Wray :laughing:. And, last but not least, the tiny little world I've worked on for the past 7 years; perhaps my biggest creative endeavour... Captain Swan, which is a character I invented in high-school and have worked on all this years.

I enjoy reading your posts; I'm very keen on them and, I certainly enjoy these exchanges :happy: Don't be afraid of long rants; I've got a saying, "a good conversation should be had the same way good sex should be had; for a long time, passionately and with another person" :laughing:


----------



## HellCat

I bruised myself testing the flogger I built today. I basically spent two hours whipping my arms and legs. Testing the physics to engineer it perfectly for the right amount of stinging and thudding. 

Dowels of varying thickness, work nicely for different sensations too. 

I should write up my findings. 

My brother took it from me and braided the handle. Telling me there is a correct way to do "everything" Its very pretty now.

We determined burning the knotted ends and shaping the molten plastic with wet fingers made a nasty nubby little feature. 

I purchased a sharp leather one, however, I wanted to build a small cat O nine tails by myself using rope. I am satisfied with the result. If it causes residual pain it has to be fun.


----------



## Eclipsed

I am a slave to freedom. My life has been perpetuated by the overwhelming desire to run.

I walk in circles around everything in my life that matters like a wary animal; not daring to approach and not daring to look away. I am a limping tiger desperately trying to keep her distance from her prey because she fears that if she moves towards it, she will lose all hope of survival when it pushes back on its hind legs and launches itself away from her. I sit among the trees quietly and wait to die before the promise of salvation because the death of hope is more frightening than death itself.

I am a planet in orbit that desperately wants to collide with the sun but too afraid of the heat and destruction that the force of collision would bring. Eternal fire burns underneath my icy surface, but I fear that if it melts, my core will dissipate and my soul will be lost forever to the void. There is a part of me that seeks to expand, and another that screams out in agony every time it feels a crack in the ice.

I desire the blue of depthless oceans- I want to merge with water and superimpose myself upon a liquid planet, but water is too weak to hold me. It would fly apart into millions of droplets all around me, and then I'd be left alone amongst the countless drops of water accelerating towards me like frozen tears.

I envy the edges of mountains running through rugged terrain, but anything which holds the beauty of verdant forests does not deserve to act as my home, for I would destroy every last organism that lives within if allowed to come too close.

Am I destined only to either destroy or be destroyed? Maybe I should collide with a burning planet and live shrouded in another's flames- but I am also afraid of the ice melting on my surfaces and leaving me without armor. I am afraid of being consumed by a fire that is not my own.

Is anyone strong enough to hold me down without threatening to crush my essence? Without a solid form, am I nothing but a part of the lifeless void?


----------



## Superfluous

I used to roll my eyes of the feeling of loneliness but tonight in bed, I reek of agony, like shit, people were serious describing the emotion before. 

At times like this, i miss Florida. New York isn't kind to lonely hearts and i feel like no one in the city takes anyone seriously enough for that, though they all feel the same emptiness. 

I burned a lot of bridges lately, of toxic relationships and one-sided friendships, they just had to go. So i feel content, what is left with me is realness even if it's a bit too quiet. I'm trying hard to focus on me right now, growth and the right people will come.. but I'm so impatient. And the feeling hits me at night and i can't sleep, and i think of all the times i had someone, anyone, to drag out of their bed to come to mine, just so i wouldn't dread sleep, just so i could feel that comfort, just to hold my hand. but they were all the wrong people & all the wrong things to fill some void and im facing the fact that nothing ever does, until it's special.

I'm not interested in "eh" anymore. I want special, and i want it now.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

He text me last night that he needs me. I'm now considering moving far away to be with him. Our love is not & will never be romantic. He's my oldest, dearest friend. He sounded like he might be in some kind of trouble. I can't let him be in pain alone. I won't. Regardless of what it costs me. I have to go.


----------



## HellCat

When your friends are so amazing you miss them even though its only a two week sabbatical to focus better because you would rather sit there all day talking to them.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

"The sweetest thing in all my life has been the longing — to reach the Mountain, to find the place where all the beauty came from — my country, the place where I ought to have been born. Do you think it all meant nothing, all the longing? The longing for home? For indeed it now feels not like going, but like going back."

-C.S. Lewis, Till we have faces


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Growing up books were my friends. I knew them intimately. I read them and reread them dreaming of adventure, dreaming of love, hoping and praying that something bigger than me existed, that I could explore the very depths of another. To understand, perfectly, human fragility...to stop hating it. I was a loner, not of choice but because no one ever fit. I wanted a perfect fit. My first existential crisis occurred at 7. My parents joked that I read too much. But in the books, I found accounts of peoples lives, passions, ambitions & struggles. I wanted nothing but to know & be known. People around me weren't honest. I saw superficiality everywhere...I wanted to shatter it. I hated small talk and niceties. I wish they were spared from me. In knowing someone I want to see their ambitions, dreams, hopes, desires, rage, questions, internal struggles, vengeance, passion, drive. I don't care if it's unpolished. I want friends that are honest, laid bare and vulnerable just as I am. I want truth to permeate through our beings.


----------



## HellCat




----------



## CaptSwan

LeoCat said:


>


:laughing:

Hell yeah! Love that movie!

I like the second musical act, where Dr. Frank N. Furter walks on stage...






Susan Sarandon and Barry Bostwick's reaction is priceless :laughing:


----------



## HellCat

CaptSwan said:


> :laughing:
> 
> Hell yeah! Love that movie!
> 
> I like the second musical act, where Dr. Frank N. Furter walks on stage...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Susan Sarandon and Barry Bostwick's reaction is priceless :laughing:


My mother used to hold rocky horror parties and my stepfather would wear drag and sing with me. I was columbia and Janet for her gatherings. When I was 12.


----------



## CaptSwan

LeoCat said:


> My mother used to hold rocky horror parties and my stepfather would wear drag and sing with me. I was columbia and Janet for her gatherings. When I was 12.


Amazing... I bet you could really hit those notes! I mean, hitting the notes Janet Weiss' songs require some singing chops.


----------



## HellCat

CaptSwan said:


> Amazing... I bet you could really hit those notes! I mean, hitting the notes Janet Weiss' songs require some singing chops.


Still can, I was earlier when it came on Pandora.


----------



## CaptSwan

LeoCat said:


> Still can, I was earlier when it came on Pandora.


Far out! That's awesome!


----------



## HellCat

Captswan to me "You on three cups of coffee is what Tony Montana is to his mountain of cocaine!"


----------



## CaptSwan

LeoCat said:


> Captswan to me "You on three cups of coffee is what Tony Montana is to his mountain of cocaine!"


Thank Goodness you don't have heavy artillery in your bedroom... Otherwise, you'd have blown up half the house with a grenade launcher screaming "I EAT YOUR FUCKING BULLETS!!!" :laughing:


----------



## Flatlander

I've been thinking about myself and relationships.

One of my favorite quips from Ayn Rand is the following: "Loneliness is a pinnacle." One character picks it out of the drivel of another character as being an important line.

It's a short line, but it always stood out to me as encapsulating a lot in meaning and always resonated with my sense of things. When I am alone, I sit atop a peak - I watch the world move, I understand it from outside. The world has its own bubble and I am not included.

I basically want my life to be this way, I prefer it, except I really want someone else to sit with me. I can't be part of that world others live in, but I need to pick someone from out of it. That's when the pinnacle gets _actually_ lonely, when I realize I may never find someone who wants to live there with me. And every time I thought I'd found someone, things go wrong, because the people I find live halfway down the mountain where they're actually part of the world, or sit atop their own peak. Those who would sit on my peak with me to watch the world, I'm less likely to get into a relationship with, because we end up basically.. friends.

Really close friends, friends I love and cherish. But the tension that tends to create relationships for me is not there.

I feel like my life is a zig zag of people who have come and shared that peak with me for moments or periods of time, then left. The pinnacle is always there, unless I completely lose myself for some reason and my whole order of life gets flipped. 

I'm wondering if I would do well with a relationship with someone who will actually, at least in part, share my pinnacle with me, as a friend. I suppose chasing others at their own peaks or down my mountain might be like chasing a mirage, where I'm going after the right _type_ of person but they're not necessarily at a similar point of view.


----------



## cinnabun

...Hi:ninja:

*spreads newly found sx around and runs away*


----------



## cinnabun

Flatlander said:


> I've been thinking about myself and relationships.
> 
> One of my favorite quips from Ayn Rand is the following: "Loneliness is a pinnacle." One character picks it out of the drivel of another character as being an important line.
> 
> It's a short line, but it always stood out to me as encapsulating a lot in meaning and always resonated with my sense of things. When I am alone, I sit atop a peak - I watch the world move, I understand it from outside. The world has its own bubble and I am not included.
> 
> I basically want my life to be this way, I prefer it, except I really want someone else to sit with me. I can't be part of that world others live in, but I need to pick someone from out of it. That's when the pinnacle gets _actually_ lonely, when I realize I may never find someone who wants to live there with me. And every time I thought I'd found someone, things go wrong, because the people I find live halfway down the mountain where they're actually part of the world, or sit atop their own peak. Those who would sit on my peak with me to watch the world, I'm less likely to get into a relationship with, because we end up basically.. friends.
> 
> Really close friends, friends I love and cherish. But the tension that tends to create relationships for me is not there.
> 
> I feel like my life is a zig zag of people who have come and shared that peak with me for moments or periods of time, then left. The pinnacle is always there, unless I completely lose myself for some reason and my whole order of life gets flipped.
> 
> I'm wondering if I would do well with a relationship with someone who will actually, at least in part, share my pinnacle with me, as a friend. I suppose chasing others at their own peaks or down my mountain might be like chasing a mirage, where I'm going after the right _type_ of person but they're not necessarily at a similar point of view.


This post spoke to me on a spiritual level.

I hope you'll find someone who you can bond with soon. I know that feeling all too well.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

xdollie. said:


> ...Hi:ninja:
> 
> *spreads newly found sx around and runs away*


1. I like you
2. welcome
3. you're genuine, inspiring, sweet, open and honest
4. I'm glad you're here.


----------



## cinnabun

Daleks_exterminate said:


> 1. I like you
> 2. welcome
> 3. you're genuine, inspiring, sweet, open and honest
> 4. I'm glad you're here.


:crying: *many tears of cute fall down thy shining face*

Thank you. I was just telling Mr. Blue about how I like you too:blushed:.


----------



## Roman Empire

Flatlander said:


> I've been thinking about myself and relationships.
> 
> One of my favorite quips from Ayn Rand is the following: "Loneliness is a pinnacle." One character picks it out of the drivel of another character as being an important line.
> 
> It's a short line, but it always stood out to me as encapsulating a lot in meaning and always resonated with my sense of things. When I am alone, I sit atop a peak - I watch the world move, I understand it from outside. The world has its own bubble and I am not included.
> 
> I basically want my life to be this way, I prefer it, except I really want someone else to sit with me. I can't be part of that world others live in, but I need to pick someone from out of it. That's when the pinnacle gets _actually_ lonely, when I realize I may never find someone who wants to live there with me. And every time I thought I'd found someone, things go wrong, because the people I find live halfway down the mountain where they're actually part of the world, or sit atop their own peak. Those who would sit on my peak with me to watch the world, I'm less likely to get into a relationship with, because we end up basically.. friends.
> 
> Really close friends, friends I love and cherish. But the tension that tends to create relationships for me is not there.
> 
> I feel like my life is a zig zag of people who have come and shared that peak with me for moments or periods of time, then left. The pinnacle is always there, unless I completely lose myself for some reason and my whole order of life gets flipped.
> 
> I'm wondering if I would do well with a relationship with someone who will actually, at least in part, share my pinnacle with me, as a friend. I suppose chasing others at their own peaks or down my mountain might be like chasing a mirage, where I'm going after the right _type_ of person but they're not necessarily at a similar point of view.


Reminds me of this song






and especially this

"With the birds I share this lonely view"

I also experience that, at least in my own way.


----------



## cinnabun

When you meet someone you connect with:


----------



## Flatlander

apa said:


> Reminds me of this song
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and especially this
> 
> "With the birds I share this lonely view"
> 
> I also experience that, at least in my own way.



I had forgotten that song. Makes an interesting counterpart to the thought.


----------



## HellCat

This skill of his is too awesome not to share. Because everyone loves Grease right?


----------



## CaptSwan

@Daleks_exterminate

Thank you for the most amazing afternoon I've ever had; it's already a blessing to see you on cam but, when we share our desires, hopes, dreams, requests and quirkiness; it makes it worth it's weight in gold :happy:. And don't worry, I'll give you what you want when you're stressed; I'll make sure we wear protective glasses so it doesn't hit us in the eye when I shoot, OK? :laughing:


----------



## cinnabun

I don't think I come across very sx tbh, because, I keep a lot of my intensity inside. Nobody really sees this except for me...is this weird? I think this is odd, considering I'm an ENFP type 7. I should be showing this off more, right?

Well, at the same time, I have Fi. So, maybe not.

My strong positive emotions are the ones I have no problem showing. I can't help but share them with everyone. I need to tell people how much I love them and smother them with affection and just be with them, really. I just _need_ them, in that moment.

However, arguably, I still only share this to an extent. I don't really say it in the fluffy way I normally would. I can't explain it. Like I would say "ily! *provides reasons why*!" and hug and that's it, but inside I'm clawing to do much more. I want to keep on expressing my feelings, but don't because I don't want to be annoying. I know it's too much, and I don't want to be perceived as clingy or whatever, because that's what i was told when I was growing-up. I have a poor relationship with my ISTJ mother, and she's very distant when it comes to things like that. Anytime, as a child, I tried to express my love and happiness for her, she'd dismiss it, push me away, make me feel it was "inappropriate" or "wrong". I was really hurt and didn't understand why it wasn't accepted, but I learned to keep it all away as I gotten older. With the help of my partner though, I'm learning to open up more, and I have no problems sharing my lovey love emotions ^^. He appreciates them, and he does it too! So I don't feel like it's 'bad'. I feel accepted and happy!

My negative emotions are the ones I keep bottled up, because I feel stupid and weak and guilty. I can't let anyone see this, because if I did, they'd think I was crazy or something.

Like today for example: I was in such a euphoric happy mood. So happy I felt high. My soul was dancing, drunk on love. My heart was singing to me. It felt amazing.

That lasted for a while, it was lovely. However, I then descended into boredom/irritation. Then I became anxious, then I burst into tears for no reason. Then I became happy again, then I started to miss my strong connections with people. I felt lonely, I just longed to have a deep conversation with someone.

I've been doing that a lot this past week, randomly crying. This immense guilt comes from nowhere and I feel a lot of hatred for myself, for the way I've became, for the way I'm allowing this illness beat me. I feel upset and angry that I'm not out living the life I desire, living the life I can see so clearly in my head, that instead of that, I'm hiding away and allowing my emotions crush me to death.

I'm not sure if this is "intense" or whatever, really. To me, this is pretty normal. Even before I was diagnosed with depression, I've been like this. Perhaps not to this extreme, but my moods have always reached a very high points, whether they be happy or sad. It's really weird, because when I recall on the intensity of these moods, I remember the positives rather than the negatives. I can recalll exactly how it felt when I was so happy. Trying to describe the sadness, it's as if it was blocked out. Idek.

This sounds as if I have manic depression or something, I don't xD. This is just me ^^.

*sounds crazy, but fuck it*

Back to the topic of intense. I don't remember ever being called that, you know, but I didn't need to. Whenever I'm out at a social gathering, meeting people for the first time, I'm very happy, bubbly, talkative and kind of in your face. I don't mean to be, it's just my way of saying "HI! TELL ME ALL ABOUT YOU! ARE YOU INTERESTING? I WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT YOUR LIFE. SHARE YOUR STORY WITH ME. TELL ME YOUR DEEPEST DARKEST SECRETS. I WANT TO FEEL YOU!" nobody has ever said I was too much (not that I can remember) but the looks on their faces said it all. They literally look like this: . Not everyone mind you, some people seem very happy with how I am, and welcomed my approach...but really, most people seem a lot more toned down than me. Instantly, I think "Oh crap, I'm overdoing it, aren't I? Omg, am I being too annoying? They totally look unimpressed...well, fuck it, This is how I am. Love it or hate it, assholes" and then continue doing what I'm doing.

I've been visiting the type 7 venting thread lately and pouring my soul into it. I'm beginning to really appreciate these threads more. I actually feel uncomfortably sharing this, but at the same time, I want to. This is what it's for, right? Besides, it's nice to know if other people can relate, which makes you feel less crazy.


----------



## galactic collision

@xdollie. I can relate to a lot of what you're saying. 

I don't think I've ever been called "intense," a word I would generally reserve for people a lot more angry and focused than me (although I actually am pretty focused when it's something that matters), but I have been told to be quiet MANY times in my life. Once, after class, a classmate told me, "You know, sometimes when you start talking, I stop listening." And then went on to tell me about how I sometimes have relevant points and sometimes just go on and on and "waste his time."

I was called annoying a lot when I was younger, but I think I've really managed to dial it back in recent years. Once someone called me scatterbrained, which is one of the last words I would ever use to describe myself. A friend heard it and countered: "versatile? Yes. Energetic? YES. Scatterbrained? Hard no."

Maybe I am a bit scatterbrained right now though, because I didn't come up with a point for this. I just wanted to say that I think I get where you're coming from and agree, with some variation of personal experience hahha


----------



## kaleidoscope

@xdollie.

I completely relate to you! My intensity is in the emotional realm first and foremost. I'm not especially flamboyant, and I like expressing things like my sexuality in more subtle ways, but when it comes to emotions? Oh man, lol. I express my positive emotions in such a spontaneous, impulsive way - it just happens and I don't even have to think about it. Especially my excitement, OMG. I can be extremely bubbly, talk super fast, get all hyped up, especially around someone I'm super comfortable with ^^ My negative emotions are _much _harder to express though. I just hesitate, I fear coming across a certain way, like needy or clingy, and I don't want to burden people with my sensitivity. 

I posted a while back about my emotional intensity:



kaleidoscope said:


> I think my intensity is much more obvious when I'm either really interested in someone, or already close to them. When I'm trying to get to know them, I focus on them much more than I do others, I want to be around them all the time, I'm zeroed in on them. It's a different kind of intensity than the one the people already in my inner circle experience. The latter is more 'universal' and shows in little things. What I react to, the strength of my reactions, how I can get worked up easily (in the good and bad way), in how invested I am once something catches my attention. My emotions show so easily, and I've learned that others see this as a form of intensity, though I can't really understand why.
> 
> Also, if I like something.. *I LIKE IT*. I'm obsessed with it, I gush about it endlessly. For example, after watching an amazing movie, I go home and replay the trailer a billion times. Then I go back to the movies and re-watch it a couple of times. Not exaggerating. And if I dislike something.. it's an intense form of dislike. Middle ground is not so natural for me.. and it's again interpreted as being kind of intense about by preferences and likes/dislikes.


Lately, in my graduate program, I've been told that I have a "bold, strong personality" and that's been interesting for me to explore. My cohort is pretty quiet and introverted for the most part, so me and another person stand out more in our social extroversion. I ended up taking on an outspoken role in discussions and debates, and for me, that's an _amazing _form of intellectual stimulation and intensity. It's like sex for my brains.


----------



## galactic collision

@kaleidoscope That's EXACTLY how I experience it. It's intense in a more emotional way than behavioral, or rather, it's felt more than it's expressed. I become focused (almost to the point of obsession, yikes) on a person I want to get to know better, or on a particular movie, or on a goal, even. I forget that it happens because it's calmed down (I was one of those hero-worshiping kids/teens - always had an obsession - but I haven't had time to get heavily invested in any celebrities or fictional characters since going to college), but every once in a while I get a crush on someone or find a new interesting topic, and my entire world explodes into feelings and colors and lights. I can't even talk about the guy I like right now - let's just say it's embarrassing how much I've journalled about him. Just reading my journal, you would think that all I did was think about this guy. But I can't remember ever having a crush this intense or a connection this strong with anyone. Which isn't to say I've never had one - I just, wow. That's how it feels. Wow.

I fixate on certain words, ideas, things like that. I'm not entirely sure how much of this is sx. But the obsession pattern feels the same with my goals as it feels with, say, a tv show or book series. I liked Doctor Who and wanted to escape into that world and was obsessed with it and learned all I could about Doctor Who and felt like I had a unique relationship with it (even though it was just a show). Also, when I was younger I wanted to be on Broadway and was obsessed with it and learned all I could about it and read up about equity rules and felt like I had a unique relationship with it (even though every 7th grade theatre kid wants to be on Broadway). I've often felt like I've had a special connection with my goals or plans for my future, as if I think, "if I can build some kind of relationship with this idea, it will somehow happen." Of course I know it doesn't work that way, but it really feels like the fixations I get on certain things I like or want or aspire to be are crushes I have on ideas, or even relationships I have with ideas. Again, not sure how much of this is sx and how much of this is me being a complete weirdo. But there you go - that's my brain.


----------



## cinnabun




----------



## cinnabun

@kaleidoscope @justforthespark


You two are beautiful gusts of glittering wind <3.


----------



## Animal

Dalton said:


> Do you interpret this as an "innocent" girl is doing a rendition of a song that _should_ be much grittier?
> 
> That innocence is incapable of really experiencing and expressing more volatile emotions?


No. It had nothing to do with her. It was just that it was a woman singing the song and I am a woman, so I was showing that *I* am singing (rather than having this be sung to me) - although if I did sing it myself, it would be a lot grittier. I also put up the cover for interest because I have posted the original too many times on forum.

I edited the last post, too ^_^


No, innocence is very capable of expressing volatile emotions. In fact that would be part of what innocence_ is _to me.

I don't view her as innocent in the way I was using the word. It was probably a bad choice of cover.


----------



## Dalton

Animal said:


> No. It had nothing to do with her. It was just that it was a woman singing the song and I am a woman, so I was showing that *I* am singing (rather than having this be sung to me) - although if I did sing it myself, it would be a lot grittier. I also put up the cover for interest because I have posted the original too many times on forum.
> 
> I edited the last post, too ^_^
> 
> No, innocence is very capable of expressing volatile emotions. In fact that would be part of what innocence_ is _to me.
> 
> I don't view her as innocent in the way I was using the word. It was probably a bad choice of cover.


Interesting. Well I guess that in my attempt to understand you, I've created a new definition of "innocence". :happy:
Also, I edited my previous post to keep up with your previous post. XD


----------



## Animal

Dalton said:


> Interesting. Well I guess that in my attempt to understand you, I've created a new definition of "innocence". :happy:
> Also, I edited my previous post to keep up with your previous post. XD


Hehe.

I'm not trying to be cryptic. I'm sorry.. I realize that is exactly what I'm doing. It's just I can't do poetic justice to that very good question - it's a very simple question, "What is innocence?" but to answer it would require a state of mind...

I've been writing my novel all day and I've just run out of words..

It's one of the most complex issues for me. I've been writing about innocence- in myself and others... lust and innocence both.. since before I ever studied enneagram. I started writing about innocence when I was very young but it became an obsession when I lost my innocence at 16. I craved the innocence of others, envied and hated them but also fell in love with them for it, wanted to suck their souls dry to have just a taste of it... and destroy it. There were other types of innocence I felt compelled to protect at any cost, even from myself. Innocence has tortured me more than anything else. It has been a major sexual, emotional and spiritual focus for me throughout my life.

I'm not trying to be difficult.
I really should be able to answer that in one sentence.

I wrote about it so much on the 8 forum when I was mistyped. I could not possibly find all the old posts. It is the most beautiful and torturous thing to me, innocence. I crave it, I hate it, I love it, I want it. I envy it and I resent it. I adore it and would give my life for it.


----------



## Animal

@_Dalton_

I found the words for some of it.

Innocence is resilience. Innocence is knowing who you are and holding on to who you are no matter what happens to you. Of course, events and other people will influence who you are and who you become. Innocence is not necessarily "blocking out influence" (though I used to think it was) because it is open-heartedness, and when someone is open-hearted, others can contribute to shaping them. Innocence is knowing what you really are - which includes animal, human and symbol - includes compassion, passion, hunger, and empathy. Innocence is truth, honesty, authenticity, and the will to stay as true to yourself as you possibly can be. This does not mean holding on to an identity or idea of yourself, but rather, being true to what you REALLY are, and having the will and patience and honesty to examine that. 

I am much more innocent now, for instance, than I was when I first lost my voice. I had passion, but lost touch with compassion. I had hunger, but lost empathy. I was an animal and a symbol, but not a human. In that sense, I was resurrected from the undead when I rediscovered my compassion and vulnerability.


More soon.


----------



## Purrfessor

Animal said:


> @_Dalton_
> 
> I found the words for some of it.
> 
> Innocence is resilience. Innocence is knowing who you are and holding on to who you are no matter what happens to you. Of course, events and other people will influence who you are and who you become. Innocence is not necessarily "blocking out influence" (though I used to think it was) because it is open-heartedness, and when someone is open-hearted, others can contribute to shaping them. Innocence is knowing what you really are - which includes animal, human and symbol - includes compassion, passion, hunger, and empathy. Innocence is truth, honesty, authenticity, and the will to stay as true to yourself as you possibly can be. This does not mean holding on to an identity or idea of yourself, but rather, being true to what you REALLY are, and having the will and patience and honesty to examine that.
> 
> I am much more innocent now, for instance, than I was when I first lost my voice. I had passion, but lost touch with compassion. I had hunger, but lost empathy. I was an animal and a symbol, but not a human. In that sense, I was resurrected from the undead when I rediscovered my compassion and vulnerability.
> 
> 
> More soon.


Innocence isn't a trait that is had or not had. It is found, deep within. At any moment it can be found. But it is never not there.

And it's in all of us because we are all victims. It is not uncommon to hide your innocence from yourself, to stay strong. Innocence will consume you if you let it. But for that, you must die. It is the fear of death that blankets innocence.


----------



## Dalton

Animal said:


> I started writing about innocence when I was very young but it became an obsession when I lost my innocence at 16.


I remember a song that I wrote at age 17. It was about this: From the day we're born, we're converted from wonderstruck babies into hateful shadows of what we could be.

A line from the lyrics: "I don't want to be left behind, but I don't to let go of youth." All these physical needs, they sap away our ability to be human. We should share all our love while we still can, because this life will suck it out of us. I hate the lack of love!

I hate myself for hating everything, for making my own happiness impossible, but I can't give it up. Giving up my ideals would be the biggest evil I could ever do: an abandonment of what is true and right.



Animal said:


> Innocence is knowing who you are and holding on to who you are no matter what happens to you.


Putting it in type 4 terms, eh? 

_________
P.S. The subject of that song still affects me greatly, four years later. People say to "do what makes you happy," yet I don't know what makes me happy that could keep me alive. Maybe I have had depression since high school or even earlier? I hate people (parents, counselors, friends, teachers) for never catching that I was depressed, for allowing, even _encouraging_ me to "put on a brave face" and minimize my feelings.


----------



## Superfluous

I have the soul of a poet, with none of the grit nor steel. Soaking up my idiot self-induced pain with a netflix binge.


----------



## Mutant Hive Queen

Oh, man, all this talk of innocence, eh? 

Well, I've got some thoughts on it. I'll sum them up here. 

--Innocence is when you think you can live the way you always dreamed about. I always dreamed about being a hero. Putting life and limb at risk in a glorious conflict that'd ultimately determine the fate of the world. 
--Innocence isn't an all-or-nothing thing, either. You can lose some of without all of it being gone, and indeed, it's bad for you and your goals to hold onto more than a tiny bit of innocence, because having too much of it means you're ignoring reality. And you ignore reality, you ignore all the ways you could fail if you don't protect yourself or you could do evil/harm/nothing in the grand scheme of things while pursuing the goals of your innocent self. 
--All the same, for me personally, I feel like the more innocence I lose, the more _self_ I lose. At least in terms of emotions. With Ti, the more I process and consider, the less I feel. But at the same time, you know?


----------



## HellCat




----------



## galactic collision




----------



## Golden Rose

I regularly need a lot of private and introspecting time detached from reality and simply focusing on my mind and expanding its horizons. Sx is needing no one but that one person or those scarce real bonds to share insights and moments with, after your recharging immersion is complete, the rest of humanity can burn.


----------



## Animal

Sexy..












^ I could have written these lyrics myself. I have songs like this from when I was a teenager.


----------



## Animal

Omg she is my spirit animal...









!!!!!!

This makes me really want to record my third album which is actually my earlier songs with lyrics like these.. Purrrrrrr! I have photos of myself like this too.. omg omg she is my spirit animal :kitteh:



Finally a WOMAN singing something I relate to and see in myself.. it's always men whose lyrics really mirror me..


----------



## Nobleheart

Met someone amazing. Instant connection, the kind that feels like a heartfelt reunion. 

And then they blew it before it could even begin.

FML.

Edit: Actually, no. F Their L. Completely their loss, not mine.


----------



## CaptSwan

Although this isn't exactly Sx; but, there's nothing like having the warm support of those who love you at the dawn of a difficult battle. Channeling them into you seconds before entering the ring; feeling their energy flow through you and calm the clutching in your stomach (one that's been there for the previous 3 days). Then, walking in, fighting and rising triumphant... that's life :happy:


----------



## Mutant Hive Queen

Nobleheart said:


> Met someone amazing. Instant connection, the kind that feels like a heartfelt reunion.
> 
> And then they blew it before it could even begin.
> 
> FML.
> 
> Edit: Actually, no. F Their L. Completely their loss, not mine.



..._so_ curious now...


----------



## sleepingnereid

Animal said:


> ~Unleash your SX. Let it rip, rant, and rage. Feel free to purge until you attain catharsis.~​


whats sx?


----------



## Nobleheart

Privileged said:


> ..._so_ curious now...


I met this dipshit at a party. Seemed like a selfish judgmental prick, but he found his way into one of my conversations, and quickly won me over with a surprising amount of synergy. This quickly felt like some kind of past life reconnection. We cuddled and talked all night about anything and everything, especially all of those strange things I'm into and no one else is (or if they are, they're only into a few, not all of them). I can't remember ever meeting someone and instantly feeling "I missed you so much" in such a profound way. When it was time to leave, we had to peel ourselves apart, and he even had the decency to not kiss me in case things go well, so we could save it for a perfect moment.

And then today, he didn't respect my approach to life and criticized me for it, then made a snarky comment like "doesn't look like we will be able to play well together". 

Rule 1 for Dating Nobleheart: Do not even think about trying to play me. If this is some kind of negging bullshit, we're done.

Rule 2 for Dating Nobleheart: If I even get a faint wiff of the possibility of you ending things, I will end it for you. My defense mechanisms demand I be in control of any situation in which I could be vulnerable. I will dump your ass to avoid the pain of rejection so fast your head will spin.

Rule 3 for Dating Nobleheart: You do what I want or we are done. You meet my needs or we are done. Don't like it? We are done. My needs are simple and my wants are easy to meet. There is a line of people waiting to do what I want and meet my needs. If I picked you, it means something about you stood out from the rest of them. Don't put yourself at the back of the line by proving yourself less valuable to me than them.

Actually, Rule 1 is "connection is everything", and Rule 2 is "Loyalty is everything". I realize these seem to contradict, and move the previous rules down, but I'm quite irritated by letting my guard down so much, letting myself hope that I'd finally found a special someone who would accept me and love me for who I am, but instead ending up flat again.

That sx need for connection is such a pain in the ass.


----------



## HellCat

Someone asked me what it is like to meet the person you know you will end up with indefinitely.

I told them, it feels like going back in time to highschool and finally getting it right. The past ceases to exist, let alone matter in your heart or to hold you back for a moment. 

<3


----------



## CaptSwan

sleepingnereid said:


> whats sx?


It's Sexual, as Instinctual Variant; one of the 3 of the Enneagram. The other 2 being Self-preservation (Sp) and Social (So).


----------



## knife

sleepingnereid said:


> whats sx?


The Sexual instinctual variant. Generally Sx's crave closeness and intensity. I literally feel on fire if I'm getting it, and cold if I'm not.

Sx manifests itself differently for different enneatypes. So you have to understand who you are in the enneagram before you can determine whether your instinctual preference is Sx. (Or take @Swordsman of Mana's nifty little test, that'll probably also help.)


Kitty Sith Lord


----------



## Flatlander

Nobleheart said:


> I met this dipshit at a party. Seemed like a selfish judgmental prick, but he found his way into one of my conversations, and quickly won me over with a surprising amount of synergy. This quickly felt like some kind of past life reconnection. We cuddled and talked all night about anything and everything, especially all of those strange things I'm into and no one else is (or if they are, they're only into a few, not all of them). I can't remember ever meeting someone and instantly feeling "I missed you so much" in such a profound way. When it was time to leave, we had to peel ourselves apart, and he even had the decency to not kiss me in case things go well, so we could save it for a perfect moment.
> 
> And then today, he didn't respect my approach to life and criticized me for it, then made a snarky comment like "doesn't look like we will be able to play well together".
> 
> Rule 1 for Dating Nobleheart: Do not even think about trying to play me. If this is some kind of negging bullshit, we're done.
> 
> Rule 2 for Dating Nobleheart: If I even get a faint wiff of the possibility of you ending things, I will end it for you. My defense mechanisms demand I be in control of any situation in which I could be vulnerable. I will dump your ass to avoid the pain of rejection so fast your head will spin.
> 
> Rule 3 for Dating Nobleheart: You do what I want or we are done. You meet my needs or we are done. Don't like it? We are done. My needs are simple and my wants are easy to meet. There is a line of people waiting to do what I want and meet my needs. If I picked you, it means something about you stood out from the rest of them. Don't put yourself at the back of the line by proving yourself less valuable to me than them.
> 
> Actually, Rule 1 is "connection is everything", and Rule 2 is "Loyalty is everything". I realize these seem to contradict, and move the previous rules down, but I'm quite irritated by letting my guard down so much, letting myself hope that I'd finally found a special someone who would accept me and love me for who I am, but instead ending up flat again.
> 
> That sx need for connection is such a pain in the ass.


That sx need for connection focuses on the other, not the self. You end up with a core that's more about the attractions in your life than about yourself, per se.

Given what you wrote, if it's really hitting on your core neurosis, I'd see you as an sp/sx type, not an sx core. Look at how your sx efforts are supposed to be serving your sp needs - in the end it's about yourself, and how things connect back to you. I'd be thrown off by this in dating and probably wouldn't be attracted to you.


----------



## Nobleheart

Flatlander said:


> I'd be thrown off by this in dating and probably wouldn't be attracted to you.


Thanks for the unsolicited critique of my purposefully exaggerated venting. Good to know we live in a world that is required to accommodate your sensibilities. I apologize profusely for not being the kind of woman you might be attracted to. I'll get right on that, your highness.


----------



## HellCat

@Daleks_exterminate @Karma 

This reminds of what you two ^ would be like in person. 
@Animal @Naqsh <3 because I love you


----------



## HellCat

@Daleks_exterminate @Karma 

This reminds of what you two ^ would be like in person. 
@Animal @Naqsh <3 because I love you


----------



## Golden Rose

LeoCat said:


> @Daleks_exterminate @Karma
> 
> This reminds of what you two ^ would be like in person.


I'm not 1/4 as animated as either of them (monotone much?) but I love Amanda Palmer and I thoroughly enjoyed this.


----------



## Flatlander

Nobleheart said:


> Thanks for the unsolicited critique of my purposefully exaggerated venting. Good to know we live in a world that is required to accommodate your sensibilities. I apologize profusely for not being the kind of woman you might be attracted to. I'll get right on that, your highness.


Because it was completely about my "criticism", a statement of my own preferences for the purpose of examining compatibility, and not at all about my analysis of what your post might imply.

Edit: Nobleheart, I'm really sorry if my remark hurt you. It's actually a trigger for me when someone seems to think the way you do. My worst failed relationship/s have come from my partner having a similar neurosis in their thinking, and it hurt _me_. _Bad_.

I don't hold any illusions of being unneurotic myself, just that my neurosis and theirs did not mix.


----------



## Nobleheart

Flatlander said:


> a statement of my own preferences for the purpose of examining compatibility,


You don't need to be examining compatibility with me. I don't know you. That's creepy and presumptive. Most importantly, you don't know me.



Flatlander said:


> not at all about my analysis of what your post might imply.


When directly replying, it does in fact become your analysis of me, my intentions, needs, and by implication of belittling those things and discrediting my compatibility with anyone. That's a shitty thing to do to anyone who is venting about their rejection and abandonment issues, and the neurosis they use to protect themselves from said issues.



Flatlander said:


> Edit: Nobleheart, I'm really sorry if my remark hurt you.


It did, but it more offended me than anything. You don't have any right to evaluate my compatibility to yourself or anyone else, especially in a way that creates a negative judgement. Thanks for apologizing, though. Seriously. I know I'm being an angry bitch here, but I'm not overlooking this. It bears weight with me. 



Flatlander said:


> It's actually a trigger for me when someone *seems to* think the way you do.


Pretty clearly you were projecting some of your issues onto me if you're using terms like "seems to". I think you triggered yourself, and then fired in my general direction. Again shitty, since I'm dealing with rejection and abandonment issues, as well as my increasing lack of desirability as a single childless woman approaching middle age.



Flatlander said:


> My worst failed relationship/s have come from my partner having a *similar *neurosis in their thinking, and it hurt _me_. _Bad_.


... or what you assumed was similar, which only proves that you saw someone else's vent, projected your own hurts onto it, and lashed out like I'm those people. I'm not. You don't know me. You don't know my back story. You don't know how I got to this point, or anything else about me. 



Flatlander said:


> I don't hold any illusions of being unneurotic myself, just that my neurosis and theirs did not mix.


Then don't word it in a way that makes me the subject. Keep it about you and them, and leave me out of it, unless you're looking for some insight on what might be causing* you *to be repeating the pattern with these people that you're assuming I might have something in common with. If that's the case, then be nicer about it, because in any pattern that repeats, the only valid factors are the repeated variables in all of them. In these instances with these people who hurt you, the only consistent factor is you. Maybe you need to take a look at how you're getting *yourself *hurt and stop blaming other people for your mistakes and emotional failures. 

Okay, sorry if I'm going beast mode. You crossed a serious line with that shit, but you did apologize, so I'll stop blasting you now.

Edit: Sorry I was so mean here. Haven't been this mad at internet comments in a long time.


----------



## Animal

@Karma 
i loled at "enneamess" hahah
been there 

<3

sorry for sparse 
computer broke. On random devices


----------



## Flatlander

Nobleheart said:


> You don't need to be examining compatibility with me. I don't know you. That's creepy and presumptive. Most importantly, you don't know me.


"Creepy" is your call, but "presumptive", I think not. I think my viewpoint holds some validity. 



> When directly replying, it does in fact become your analysis of me, my intentions, needs, and by implication of belittling those things and discrediting my compatibility with anyone. That's a shitty thing to do to anyone who is venting about their rejection and abandonment issues, and the neurosis they use to protect themselves from said issues.


Whoa, I can't possibly discredit your compatibility with _anyone _other than myself. I'm one human being. My implication was basically that you might not be the most compatible with someone who has a core sx neurosis, in particular someone with my specific type makeup and experience. The world doesn't have very many who have my particular type makeup and experience. How the fuck could I possibly speak for the whole world of people who aren't like me?



> It did, but it more offended me than anything. You don't have any right to evaluate my compatibility to yourself or anyone else, especially in a way that creates a negative judgement. Thanks for apologizing, though. Seriously. I know I'm being an angry bitch here, but I'm not overlooking this. It bears weight with me.


Got every right to evaluate what I want to for myself. I maybe should not have expressed it, but that's essentially the fault of me feeling the need to say something on multiple fronts at once.



> Pretty clearly you were projecting some of your issues onto me if you're using terms like "seems to". I think you triggered yourself, and then fired in my general direction.


Your assumptions based on me using the term "seems to" are incorrect. I'm not projecting my issues onto you. I definitely reacted based on my own issues. I noticed you have issues too, and noticed that our issues would not interact well in a relationship. I respond instinctively to this kind of thing, which is why it comes out as "not being attracted".



> Again shitty, since I'm dealing with rejection and abandonment issues, as well as my increasing lack of desirability as a single childless woman approaching middle age.


Different backgrounds can create people with similar neurotic needs. I wasn't thinking about your background. I was thinking about your mentality.

But based on what you're saying here, it makes sense as to why you've responded to me that way. It seems I triggered you in turn, for which I apologize. You're not someone I'd want to be with, but I seriously doubt I'm a person you'd ever want to be with either. I'm not desirable to most anyone in this world for no lack of reasons myself.



> ... or what you assumed was similar,


I did not assume anything. It _is_ similar. I'm not going into details, but I'm pretty sold that your need is similar to what the others' needs were, and they really fucked with my head as well as my heart. I'm sure me being in others' lives has fucked with their heads too, but those with a similar mindset to yours had the upper hand on me. Especially the first.



> which only proves that you saw someone else's vent, projected your own hurts onto it, and lashed out like I'm those people.


It wasn't just a lash out. You're treating it like that was my only purpose in responding.



> I'm not. You don't know me. You don't know my back story. You don't know how I got to this point, or anything else about me.


You hint at who you are every time you write something.



> Then don't word it in a way that makes me the subject. Keep it about you and them, and leave me out of it, unless you're looking for some insight on what might be causing* you *to be repeating the pattern with these people that you're assuming I might have something in common with. If that's the case, then be nicer about it, because in any pattern that repeats, the only valid factors are the repeated variables in all of them. In these instances with these people who hurt you, the only consistent factor is you. Maybe you need to take a look at how you're getting *yourself *hurt and stop blaming other people for your mistakes and emotional failures.


No, the only consistent factor is not me. The second consistent factor is their neuroses, and the third consistent factor is how their neuroses and myself (with my own neuroses) interact. It's a matter of finding the interaction between us that was going wrong, not just the one side or the other (my neurosis or theirs). The whole thing _does not work_, which was basically my point - it's hard to simply _get over_ a neurosis, especially one which has dominated your life to date, or is currently dominating it, so it's better to at least learn to identify and avoid the things that trigger it. 



> Okay, sorry if I'm going beast mode. You crossed a serious line with that shit, but you did apologize, so I'll stop blasting you now.
> 
> Edit: Sorry I was so mean here. Haven't been this mad at internet comments in a long time.


I'm going to stop the cycle and if you write back, I'm not responding. You can have the last word if you really want. I don't see it going anywhere good.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

LeoCat said:


> @_Daleks_exterminate_ @_Karma_
> 
> This reminds of what you two ^ would be like in person.
> @_Animal_ @_Naqsh_ <3 because I love you


im stealing Amanda Palmers husband! Orr there in an open marriage so that wouldn't be necessary but Neil is my fav author


----------



## CaptSwan

She inspired me to do poetry; didn't tell me "do it", but, she basically kickstarted my heart into it... I already posted it on the Art sub-forum; but, what the hell? Obviously, it's been edited to have our usernames; to preserve privacy.

The Fairy

The wind blew on the field,
Grass bending, trees shedding leaves.
I looked up, to the dark sky
Because of something that caught my eye.

A shiny light, a little sun
Came flying through, like a shooting star
A warm feeling, took upon me soon
A sense of peace, like I'd never felt before.

From that shiny glow, I heard a little voice
"What are you, magnificent sight? 
Oh, majestuous creature of light "
I asked in a surprised mode.

"Daleks is my name, silly boy"
Said the little fairy, in a cheerful tone
"And, I've been sent to bring you joy!"
Said the fairy; smiling whole.

"How can this be?" I asked surprised
"I'm perfectly happy, this way I am"
"I need not joy, I feel whole"
"I thank you though, for this wonderful offer"

"Silly boy, silly boy" said the fairy
"You can't hide from me, the secrets of your soul".
"I've been sent to you, from above the Heavens"
"To bring you peace; so you stop repenting..."
"To drop the burdens that your soul is carrying"

"How can this be?" I said aloud
"Why have been sent, such a wonderful present?"
"Your soul is pure" said the fairy
"But the weight of the world lies on your shoulders"

"Grab my hand, little Atlas"
"It's time for you to stop pretending"
"Grab my hand, little Swan"
"Feel the joy, you're so badly craving"

Taken over, by the fairy's words
I stretched my hand, to touch hers
As I did this, a flash of light
The fairy turned into a woman, in the blink of an eye

A beautiful smile, from ear to ear
A marvelous face that melted my fear
I gazed into her eyes, completely dazzled
Just a few words, I managed to whisper

"Daleks, my love" I said weeping
"I feel so much peace, it's an odd feeling"

"Swan, my love" Daleks answered
"I'm here for you; to walk with you
I've seen you for a while, always from afar
And, just now I gathered the courage to act"

"I gave away my immortal life
To be with you, because you my soul ignite"
I stared at her, full in tears
"Daleks, kiss me; and let our souls unite"

In one kiss; a simple kiss
The entire world, stood by and witnessed
The kiss of a mortal and a fairy
A kiss of love, a tale for the ages.


----------



## Golden Rose

Animal said:


> @Karma
> i loled at "enneamess" hahah
> been there
> 
> <3
> 
> sorry for sparse
> computer broke. On random devices


<3

The most fascinating thing about the Enneagram is that you never stop learning, there's always a new waterfall of data ready to fill in the blanks or remove and replace Jenga pieces from the tower you just built. But it doesn't destroy any of your previously gathered information, it just gives you more clarity. And it can be a mess! A giant _enneamess_! 

So far I'm debating four-five types (two of them being extremely likely, the others just potential fixes/rejects). Privately, of course, as I'm still not done cleaning up the blood stains from the last time and you know how much TreeBob cares about his PerC halls!


----------



## Animal

Karma said:


> <3
> 
> The most fascinating thing about the Enneagram is that you never stop learning, there's always a new waterfall of data ready to fill in the blanks or remove and replace Jenga pieces from the tower you just built. But it doesn't destroy any of your previously gathered information, it just gives you more clarity. And it can be a mess! A giant _enneamess_!
> 
> So far I'm debating four-five types (two of them being extremely likely, the others just potential fixes/rejects). Privately, of course, as I'm still not done cleaning up the blood stains from the last time and you know how much TreeBob cares about his PerC halls!


I totally understand  none of my mistypes were a waste of time. I learned more about myself, my loved ones, the world... And for the geeky side of me, more about the enneagram system itself so that now i can speak the language with some brilliant and well studied people .. Oh, and when I am lucky enough to encounter people like that, they always show me how much i still DON'T know.. Which is invigorating. Thats why i love enneagram too, well one of many reasons.. I love the depth of it and how many different layers it can be studied on and applied with . I think the most crucial thing is that i never forgot when to leave it alone and step outside of it. Its so deep and amazing but sometimes i remind myself.. It's just a tool and a theory. That way my ego doesnt get too tied up in learning about types i identify with.


----------



## HellCat

Earlier today. Me- Grandma stop fucking with my router.

Grandma- my big pc is broken! It won't turn on. Or stay on!
Me- It needs to be plugged in. 
Grandma- Watch it will turn off.. I keep turning the router on and off to fix it!


Me- Honestly grandma, I hardly notice what other people think. 
Grandma- We can't all be in love with ourselves like you
Me-- I'm not in love with myself.. okay maybe I am

Grandma! I MEANT IT AS A FUCKING INSULT .. God you amaze me at times.


Twenty minutes later. 

Grandma- COME QUICK! My pc is broken. 
Me- Whats the deal?
Grandma- its installing something see look "Acer" I have 206 gb left out of 285. What is a GB and WHY IS THAT BAR BLUE ITS LOADING OH NO ITS A VIRUS
Me- Its the harddrive telling you it needs more space. You should buy another pc. (She loves to shop and I did not care to hear about how a virus magically appeared when its a standard set up. Computer tech here.) 

When you go to the C: Drive under Hard Disk Drives. It lists your drives. C: D: F: etc. It has been set up that way for the last 20 years. 

Grandma- No ITS A VIRUS! I ran that fucking MALWARE thingyjoby last week and now look. There is a BLUE BAR on my window!! Its loading. MAKE IT STOP LOADING. Oh god. Its going to break my pc, isn't it. Your damned program broke my pc.

She really talks with a lot of exclamation points.

Its okay grandma. If it stays broken, I will help you pick a new laptop. 

She smiles and I run out before I hear more about the evil virus.


----------



## Flatlander

LeoCat said:


> Earlier today. Me- Grandma stop fucking with my router.
> 
> Grandma- my big pc is broken! It won't turn on. Or stay on!
> Me- It needs to be plugged in.
> Grandma- Watch it will turn off.. I keep turning the router on and off to fix it!
> 
> 
> Me- Honestly grandma, I hardly notice what other people think.
> Grandma- We can't all be in love with ourselves like you
> Me-- I'm not in love with myself.. okay maybe I am
> 
> Grandma! I MEANT IT AS A FUCKING INSULT .. God you amaze me at times.
> 
> 
> Twenty minutes later.
> 
> Grandma- COME QUICK! My pc is broken.
> Me- Whats the deal?
> Grandma- its installing something see look "Acer" I have 206 gb left out of 285. What is a GB and WHY IS THAT BAR BLUE ITS LOADING OH NO ITS A VIRUS
> Me- Its the harddrive telling you it needs more space. You should buy another pc. (She loves to shop and I did not care to hear about how a virus magically appeared when its a standard set up. Computer tech here.)
> 
> When you go to the C: Drive under Hard Disk Drives. It lists your drives. C: D: F: etc. It has been set up that way for the last 20 years.
> 
> Grandma- No ITS A VIRUS! I ran that fucking MALWARE thingyjoby last week and now look. There is a BLUE BAR on my window!! Its loading. MAKE IT STOP LOADING. Oh god. Its going to break my pc, isn't it. Your damned program broke my pc.
> 
> She really talks with a lot of exclamation points.
> 
> Its okay grandma. If it stays broken, I will help you pick a new laptop.
> 
> She smiles and I run out before I hear more about the evil virus.


She might be happier without a computer.


----------



## Superfluous

just bought a plane a ticket for a ride that takes off in 2 hours. heading to California with nothing but a backpack. ill see you guys when i see you guys.

@Animal im getting her.


----------



## Animal

Superfluous said:


> just bought a plane a ticket for a ride that takes off in 2 hours. heading to California with nothing but a backpack. ill see you guys when i see you guys.
> 
> @_Animal_ im getting her.


beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!

I would leave you a beautiful gif display for this message, but I'm electronically stunted at the moment. My heart just exploded in a happyfarm though.


----------



## Animal

November seems to be the month of love and passion and reuniting/uniting of soul mates for a few of my friends. This type of energy makes me so happy and gives me hope.  

I know type 4 is supposed to be "angry envy" but actually I don't feel that way because I don't want your damn boyfriends and girlfriends.   I am just so happy for everyone and feel fortunate to be surrounded by so much passion. It inspires me. I have amazing friends. I've met amazing people on perc, genuine true friends. I love you all <3


----------



## nichya

I think sx people should be granted with immortality..or least never aging..I feel like I live on another dimension of space and time compared to people who can just settle for mediocre people and things.


----------



## knife

I am skidding further into depression. I think it's time to admit the truth about myself: I have been depressed almost my entire adult life.

Right now everything just feels so cold and empty and distant. I have no energy, no drive to do anything whatsoever. I'm laying on my bed right now and hungry -- my stomach's growling -- and yet I still have no drive whatsoever for even the most basic task of feeding myself.

There's nothing. Absolutely nothing. Without that fire there's nothing. I yearn for her back in my life because she's the coals and bellows, feeds it hot and able to forge. I close my eyes and I see her ginger hair, green eyes -- and yet I am lost and have no drive or idea how to escape this wilderness. And find her again. She is the antidote.


----------



## Superfluous

I am content in some ways, otherwise borderline depressed in others. I just spent the first half of the month in some weird escapism mode, everything has been a blur. on the bright side, my lashes have gotten really long.


----------



## HellCat

Little sister, I am not a critical person. You are though bitch. So I am saying this

How could you become a stylist and abandon all sense of feminine glamour, beauty and style?


You look like an evil male elf with that haircut and its going to kill me that I can't drink to have an excuse to brutally mock your bitchy ass since you are coming down here for christmas. 


It is so frustrating how fake and cloying your personality is when I know all you want to do is rage like the hulk and knock shit over.

I hate the holidays. Want to be with mine. Cannot til february


----------



## Animal

Sometimes I wonder how jealous I would have to be to physically harm another person.
I doubt it would come to that, but damn can I fantasize.
I want to slaughter every last one of those perfect elves.
I'll never be pretty.

I can appreciate beauty in other women.
In fact, I love it.
I love photographing beautiful women.
I love having beautiful backup singers in my band. I dare them to outshine me.
My friends are beautiful and I am not jealous. I celebrate their triumphs.
But the elves who prance on my territory.
It makes me feel violent.
It makes me want to destroy my territory from the ground up. 
I will scorch it to ashes.
I am a volcano.

I need to be the only one.
I will find a home where I am the prettiest
and I am loved.

Even if I have to leave this planet.
I will find a home.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

I do not understand how the fuck I can fall so hard
so fucking fast. Out of left field
not even see it coming until they ask me what I'm doing.
realize I'm feeling intense things not know what to do with it...
try to convey it calmly (ha) 
of course fall for an intp type 6.. Prob sp... Haha
then, panic when he went 6 on me
and I came off like a pushy, manipulative, crazy person
when in reality it was my 7 getting scared & running away. 
in the aftermath I see how it looked like that...
i see it.

but really I'm just a scared little girl who doesn't know how to be told "wait", whose overly intense & comes on way to strong. Who feels a connection & throws caution to the wind. Whose crying over she barely knows...

maybe he's right and I am manipulative & wanting attention. I hope he's wrong though. I tried disproving him.... I think that honestly had more to do with the fact that I'm terrified he's right. That I'm faulted at heart, in mind and in soul. I liked that he was cautious. I liked it because I'm not. I liked that he wanted to analyze everything until nothing was left. Liked and didn't understand. Liked and couldn't relate. Liked and yet hated the feeling of vulnerability so much I pushed for an answer and sabotaged a chance at anything. 

The WORST part is he would have been such a cool friend. I barely knew him. Why did I want more? 

Why am I always too much and wanting more than I should?


----------



## Flatlander

Zorya Polunochnaya said:


> I do not understand how the fuck I can fall so hard
> so fucking fast. Out of left field
> not even see it coming until they ask me what I'm doing.
> realize I'm feeling intense things not know what to do with it...
> try to convey it calmly (ha)
> of course fall for an intp type 6.. Prob sp... Haha
> then, panic when he went 6 on me
> and came off like a pushy, manipulative, crazy person
> when in reality it was my 7 getting scared & running away.
> in the aftermath I see how it looked like that...
> i see it.


He was probably no more "right" or "wrong" than you are. You just probably weren't right for each other at this particular moment.

Our perceptions create shadows. It's good that you recognize some of the source of your own. It will help you in the future.



> The WORST part is he would have been such a cool friend. I barely knew him. Why did I want more?
> 
> Why am I always too much and wanting more than I should?


Gawd, I feel ya.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Flatlander said:


> He was probably no more "right" or "wrong" than you are. You just probably weren't right for each other at this particular moment.
> 
> Our perceptions create shadows. It's good that you recognize some of the source of your own. It will help you in the future.
> 
> 
> Gawd, I feel ya.


I didn't say he was right or wrong. I said "oh god pain, and what the hell is wrong with me?!" :tongue:

but thank you. The friend thing is super annoying.

i think I no longer get to know people online for anything more than friendship.


----------



## HellCat

I am designing my wedding dress on a mocha slip dress as a liner. I have played with lace and now I am onto sequins, spangles, bead embroidery for the bodice, Thinking of sewing tulle gathered over the a line skirt instead of lace. 

I am an artist but I have never done a dress before. I am looking at it as a fun art project for my high school teacher instead of for my wedding in two months.


----------



## mimesis

@Scelerat you are such a lucky bastard! Congrats to you both.


----------



## cinnabun

It's painful to want something you can't have, but for someone like me, it's worse than death.

I'm in a LDR, and I can usually handle the whole "omg so much distance" thing, but these past couple of weeks have been incredibly difficult. I've wanted him, I've craved him, I've needed him. Not just sexually (although my god I'm so fucking frustrated) but I just want _him_. I want to be with him, to hold him. I just want to lay next to him, knowing he's mine, and honestly, the thought of that brings me so much happiness and joy, more than anything ever could. It's such a strange and surreal feeling. To know I feel complete, and that I've found my other half. I was always really skeptical about the concept of love and soul mates, but at the same time, I wanted to find mine.

Now I finally have:kitteh:<3.

A storm of emotions is brewing in my small body. Extreme happiness, intense love and aggressive affection. It's like...crazy, but it's awesome.


----------



## Animal

xdollie. said:


> It's painful to want something you can't have, but for someone like me, it's worse than death.
> 
> I'm in a LDR, and I can usually handle the whole "omg so much distance" thing, but these past couple of weeks have been incredibly difficult. I've wanted him, I've craved him, I've needed him. Not just sexually (although my god I'm so fucking frustrated) but I just want _him_. I want to be with him, to hold him. I just want to lay next to him, knowing he's mine, and honestly, the thought of that brings me so much happiness and joy, more than anything ever could. It's such a strange and surreal feeling. To know I feel complete, and that I've found my other half. I was always really skeptical about the concept of love and soul mates, but at the same time, I wanted to find mine.
> 
> Now I finally have:kitteh:<3.
> 
> A storm of emotions is brewing in my small body. Extreme happiness, intense love and aggressive affection. It's like...crazy, but it's awesome.


----------



## HellCat

I am an ENTJ. Anyone who knows me and knows the Jungian functions says so but I love Emojis. Used reasonably. Not the squashed yellow head smiley faces ones or the little faces here they are ugly. 

I feel like I should be saying this in an AA meeting.


----------



## Animal

A man can tell me he loves me, but in a way it's irrelevant. Talk is cheap. His actions show me his feelings, regardless of what he says or doesn't say. I love a man who speaks through his actions. Ironically, this is the only type of man who lures praise and loving words out of me. All of a sudden I'm the female Shakespeare incarnate.


----------



## HellCat

Going to pretend to be sick to get out the next two holiday events.

I am too mad with everyone and don't feel like the screaming, ranting and threats that will ensue if I bring up what my niece just blurted.

People, kids tell me everything. They consider me their ally because I am neutral and have only punished them once each in their lives.

I fucking hate social interaction as it is. I refuse to do it with people who do not deserve my time or energy.


----------



## Golden Rose

@Animal is fucking amazing <3

I hate asslicking so this is not it, I just really enjoy our conversations and how real as hell they are and she could untangle anything but just discussing and listening and avoiding to corner me. That's a huge thing for me, being backed up or put on the spot or dissected in a self-assured way, it just doesn't work. I've had so much time to stew and boil, explore and explode and I realize that in the end, no matter how many spins I give to the bottle or tales I climb into, the reality is that I'm a deeply flawed person but at the same time there's a lot about me I enjoy. I've made so many mistakes and screw ups in my life, it's ridiculous but at the same time they're my battle scars and they ain't going anywhere, I can be a huge pain in the ass but then again I'm just me and no one is forced to endure this ass ravaging.

I didn't even think this would go anywhere and it did and it's frankly amazing. Sometimes I just need to jump from wall to wall until I remember which one was had the treasure buried right under but it's life and it works in its own fucked up way, as long as I keep going, I won't allow myself to drown and burst into flames. Which is something technically impossible but let's not underestimate my unhealthy self destructive ninja powers! I don't know, I feel like shit in the right kind of way which actually makes me feel motivated and eager to tear down my mental and physical walls with a massive sledgehammer.

I'll take this typing and this cake and eat it too -it's virtual I can swallow it wall- and if I fail, I fail. I won't learn without scraping your knees a few times and repeating the same mistakes over and over has become a monthly tradition.


----------



## Animal

Sherlock Hotes said:


> @_Animal_ is fucking amazing <3
> 
> I hate asslicking so this is not it, I just really enjoy our conversations and how real as hell they are and she could untangle anything but just discussing and listening and avoiding to corner me. That's a huge thing for me, being backed up or put on the spot or dissected in a self-assured way, it just doesn't work. I've had so much time to stew and boil, explore and explode and I realize that in the end, no matter how many spins I give to the bottle or tales I climb into, the reality is that I'm a deeply flawed person but at the same time there's a lot about me I enjoy. I've made so many mistakes and screw ups in my life, it's ridiculous but at the same time they're my battle scars and they ain't going anywhere, I can be a huge pain in the ass but then again I'm just me and no one is forced to endure this ass ravaging.
> 
> I didn't even think this would go anywhere and it did and it's frankly amazing. Sometimes I just need to jump from wall to wall until I remember which one was had the treasure buried right under but it's life and it works in its own fucked up way, as long as I keep going, I won't allow myself to drown and burst into flames. Which is something technically impossible but let's not underestimate my unhealthy self destructive ninja powers! I don't know, I feel like shit in the right kind of way which actually makes me feel motivated and eager to tear down my mental and physical walls with a massive sledgehammer.
> 
> I'll take this typing and this cake and eat it too -it's virtual I can swallow it wall- and if I fail, I fail. I won't learn without scraping your knees a few times and repeating the same mistakes over and over has become a monthly tradition.


You are amazing too <3 <3 <3 

And no matter how many times either of us makes & breaks an enneamess, I will still be honored to consider you a friend.   We are in this together. 

That said, I think you're very likely correctly typed. I will say more about this when I'm awake.

I enjoy our conversations so much. It's always so real and a stream of passion and intellect and just.. rawness. I know that we can both feel closed around some people.. and I feel like we balance well while still getting each other. It's just so damn easy to talk to you and get right down to what's real.

I've also enjoyed talking to @CaptSwan the last few days. Thank you for being there when I was very down. I won't forget it. It means a lot when someone is there for me , not because we've been friends for a long time but just because they are a good person and have something to give. That goes for you too , @Sherlock Hotes.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

*hugspolsion*


----------



## CaptSwan

Animal said:


> You are amazing too <3 <3 <3
> 
> And no matter how many times either of us makes & breaks an enneamess, I will still be honored to consider you a friend.   We are in this together.
> 
> That said, I think you're very likely correctly typed. I will say more about this when I'm awake.
> 
> I enjoy our conversations so much. It's always so real and a stream of passion and intellect and just.. rawness. I know that we can both feel closed around some people.. and I feel like we balance well while still getting each other. It's just so damn easy to talk to you and get right down to what's real.
> 
> I've also enjoyed talking to @_CaptSwan_ the last few days. Thank you for being there when I was very down. I won't forget it. It means a lot when someone is there for me , not because we've been friends for a long time but just because they are a good person and have something to give. That goes for you too , @_Sherlock Hotes_.
> 
> <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
> 
> *hugspolsion*


It's an absolute honor and pleasure to be there for you in your time of need @_Animal_. Believe me, you're the kind of people I'm thankful for having in my life :happy:. It's funny, I'd been down for a couple of days; but, thanks to the interactions I've had in the past couple of days, I feel I've returned to my usual, charming and dashing idol of millions that I am ; and, as The Thing says... "It's clubberin' time!"

Finally, for all the people who I've found out are in love in the past months; I dedicate to you all this song, it's old but, it's dead on!


----------



## Chesire Tower

@Animal and @Sherlock Hotes; you guize are both uber-amazing! 

<3


----------



## knife

This song speaks to me deeply, intensely:






And right now I find myself thinking of


> I had my back turned
> You didn't realize
> I'm lonely


Is there any emotion that hurts harder than loneliness? If there is I sure as hell haven't found it and I've plumbed the depths of pain...


> Say hello, say hello, say hello
> To the angels, to the angels, to the angels


----------



## HellCat

53 more days until we can get married, I will carry your t shirt around mournfully, like an abandoned kitten.


----------



## Flatlander

There are plenty of negative emotions one can feel towards another. Pity, hatred, disgust, annoyance.

But I think to me, the worst of all is distrust.

I have to be invested in someone to feel it. And if I'm invested in you, it takes something serious for me to turn that way. I don't get invested in a whole lot of people in the first place, so for me to not be able to trust someone I would have considered intimate is a big deal. Because of how I associate with my own mind, an inability to trust and a feeling of inability to read or predict a person are co-morbid, and for me a grasp on the universe is the only thing in life that allows me to feel I have any capability at all. To lack that becomes lethal. 

I don't know how long it takes to repair that kind of break. I don't know if it's even possible. What I do know is that it's a weird realization, that it's far darker to distrust than even to despise. I still don't know what to do with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sina

Flatlander said:


> There are plenty of negative emotions one can feel towards another. Pity, hatred, disgust, annoyance.
> 
> But I think to me, the worst of all is distrust.
> 
> I have to be invested in someone to feel it. And if I'm invested in you, it takes something serious for me to turn that way. I don't get invested in a whole lot of people in the first place, so for me to not be able to trust someone I would have considered intimate is a big deal. Because of how I associate with my own mind, an inability to trust and a feeling of inability to read or predict a person are co-morbid, and for me a grasp on the universe is the only thing in life that allows me to feel I have any capability at all. To lack that becomes lethal.
> 
> I don't know how long it takes to repair that kind of break. I don't know if it's even possible. What I do know is that it's a weird realization, that it's far darker to distrust than even to despise. I still don't know what to do with it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think I agree. With my mother, for instance, because she has always been abusive, there was likely no time for trust to develop. In that case, my hatred trumps all else. But, in general, I function similarly to you. There has to be a deep emotional investment and intimacy, and subsequently a very significant mistake, before I'd even feel distrust as you said. I have felt this once in my entire life, for a partner, and it was for good or even excellent reason. People worry about infidelity etc. That was never even on my mind. It never has been. I just could no longer trust the person to act in his own best interests and the best interests of the relationship. The feeling was dark...distrust made me feel very empty and hollow. It's far easier for me to hate or despise or be angry at another person. Distrust was a baffling ...shocking feeling to me. It left me cold, detached, no longer invested...there was some resentment that soon enough turned to an icy indifference. I didn't know what to do with that feeling, but its' probably one of the strangest things I have ever experienced.


----------



## Dalton

Naqsh said:


> Naah, you made all of those errors.


I like arguing about beliefs. When I argue, I want to end it having learned or taught something. I don't like to argue for its own sake. You're turning this into a game of "uh-huh/nuh-uh". In cases of casual argument (like I intended with this), I don't argue to win. You seem to have winning in mind, and honestly, I don't care.

No hard feelings.


----------



## Sina

Dalton said:


> I like arguing about beliefs. When I argue, I want to end it having learned or taught something. I don't like to argue for its own sake. You're turning this into a game of "uh-huh/nuh-uh". In cases of casual argument (like I intended with this), I don't argue to win. You seem to have winning in mind, and honestly, I don't care.
> 
> No hard feelings.


Oh, I was too busy enjoying a logic game to have an objective like "winning" in mind. Of course, I respect your choice to walk away or engage further. 

Most definitely, no hard feelings. Didn't even occur to me.


----------



## HellCat

I fucking hate when others meddle in relationships that are happy.

I just saw how two people broke up something that was out of this world between two people I hold dearly. I am furious.

Manipulating other people with lies or fear and controlling their circumstances to get your desired result from them is not love. It is pride. 


I leave forever in thirty one days. Yay. Only man I would have ever considered leaving protecting my grandmother to be with forever. 

She understands, she likes him and the rest of my family adore him.


----------



## Animal

LeoCat said:


> I fucking hate when others meddle in relationships that are happy.
> 
> I just saw how two people broke up something that was out of this world between two people I hold dearly. I am furious.
> 
> Manipulating other people with lies or fear and controlling their circumstances to get your desired result from them is not love. It is pride.


rawr wtf


----------



## Flatlander

Naqsh said:


> I think I agree. With my mother, for instance, because she has always been abusive, there was likely no time for trust to develop. In that case, my hatred trumps all else. But, in general, I function similarly to you. There has to be a deep emotional investment and intimacy, and subsequently a very significant mistake, before I'd even feel distrust as you said. I have felt this once in my entire life, for a partner, and it was for good or even excellent reason. People worry about infidelity etc. That was never even on my mind. It never has been. I just could no longer trust the person to act in his own best interests and the best interests of the relationship. The feeling was dark...distrust made me feel very empty and hollow. It's far easier for me to hate or despise or be angry at another person. Distrust was a baffling ...shocking feeling to me. It left me cold, detached, no longer invested...there was some resentment that soon enough turned to an icy indifference. I didn't know what to do with that feeling, but its' probably one of the strangest things I have ever experienced.



I don't think there's anything to _do_ with it, it's just there. In my mind, it settles things.


----------



## cinnabun

I think I expect too much from people. I give them my all, my absolute loyalty, love, trust, admiration, affection..._everything.
_
It's like we take a blood oath. I cut myself open and provide them with a piece of my soul, my heart, and my mind. I give it away happily, because letting people in, creating a strong and happy relationship (be it friendship or more) is exciting and so wonderful. It's chemical...it's intoxicating.

But if I don't get the same back, I feel let down. I feel betrayed, destroyed in a way. Why did I think I could have it all? There aren't enough people like me in the world who will put all of their time and energy into someone. 

Am I selfish? Are my standards set too high?

I just want what I give. 

It's so weird how I go from telling myself how I'm not good enough for anything, to being like "Damn you're a fucking amazing friend. You deserve more, she was out of line. People need to start being like you."


----------



## perpetuallyreticent

So... becoming consumed by your attraction to someone is an sx quality, right? :bored:

Thought process

morning...him

day...him

night...him

Real tired of your shit, sx.


----------



## knife

LeoCat said:


> I fucking hate when others meddle in relationships that are happy.
> 
> I just saw how two people broke up something that was out of this world between two people I hold dearly. I am furious.
> 
> Manipulating other people with lies or fear and controlling their circumstances to get your desired result from them is not love. It is pride..


If you think watching from the sidelines makes you furious, just imagine what it's like when it happens to you...

*teeth gnash*

I. Will. Have. My. Revenge.


----------



## mimesis

Dalton said:


> I like arguing about beliefs. When I argue, I want to end it having learned or taught something. I don't like to argue for its own sake. You're turning this into a game of "uh-huh/nuh-uh". In cases of casual argument (like I intended with this), I don't argue to win. You seem to have winning in mind, and honestly, I don't care.
> 
> No hard feelings.


Also, we are debating quality, not truth. With quality, you can have somewhat paradoxical statements like "less is more", or "kill your darlings", though I wouldn't apply this to the creative process aka pregnancy. It's perhaps not strictly logic, but rational nevertheless, and like Jungian Thinking vs. Feeling.

A nice book to read is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert Pirsig. 



Quality said:


> In Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Pirsig explores the meaning and concept of quality, a term he deems to be undefinable. Pirsig's thesis is that to truly experience quality one must both embrace and apply it as best fits the requirements of the situation. According to Pirsig, such an approach would avoid a great deal of frustration and dissatisfaction common to modern life.
> In the book, the Narrator describes the "Romantic" approach to life of his friend, John Sutherland, who chooses not to learn how to maintain his expensive new motorcycle. John simply hopes for the best with his bike, and when problems do occur he often becomes frustrated, and is forced to rely on professional mechanics to repair it. In contrast, the "classical" Narrator has an older motorcycle which he is usually able to diagnose and repair himself through the use of rational problem solving skills.
> 
> Pirsig examines the modern pursuit of "Pure Truths", claiming it derives from the work of early Greek philosophers who were establishing the concept of truth in opposition to the force of "The Good". He argues that although rational thought may find a truth (or The Truth) it may never be fully and universally applicable to each and every individual's experience. Therefore, what is needed is an approach to viewing life that is more varied and inclusive and has a wider range of application. He makes a case that originally the Greeks did not distinguish between "Quality" and "Truth" – they were one and the same – and that the divorce was, in fact, artificial (though needed at the time) and is now a source of much frustration and unhappiness in the world, particularly overall dissatisfaction with modern life.
> 
> Pirsig aims towards a perception of the world that embraces both sides, the rational and the romantic. This means encompassing "irrational" sources of wisdom and understanding as well asscience reason and technology. In particular, this must include bursts of creativity and intuition that seemingly come from nowhere and are not (in his view) rationally explicable. Pirsig seeks to demonstrate that rationality and Zen-like "being in the moment" can harmoniously coexist. He suggests such a combination of rationality and romanticism can potentially bring a higher quality of life.


If you haven't learned, you haven't lived


----------



## HellCat

"Let the fucking past go you whiny old woman in a 30 yr old mans body"

I did not love you, you are like my brother. Yes I am taking my kitchen supplies. I bought them with my money.

I am not an image person. I do not give a damn if the woman taking up my space to pay at the grocery stores feelings were hurt.

I consider what you and your family call "tact" 

to be passive aggressive, people pleasing, ass kissing and not authentic. A practice lauded by jellyfish spined cunts like yourself who base your worth on the cost of your outfits and how many friends you have. You could not turn me into a stepford wife stop trying to criticize me and train me for the man I am marrying who loves the crazy ass punk hippie I am. Even my yoga pants and motorcycle boots and wild curly auburn hair I will die before I flat iron daily.


Leave me alone or I am going to erupt on you and leave you crying and gossiping even more about me.


----------



## Animal

White Knight said:


> If you think watching from the sidelines makes you furious, just imagine what it's like when it happens to you...
> 
> *teeth gnash*
> 
> I. Will. Have. My. Revenge.


If other humans are able to come between me and someone, then he is not worthy of my love.

I'm not saying he's below me, or even "worse" of a person than me. I'm not claiming that he is below me in any quantifiable way at all. What I am saying is, love is stronger than that. If his love for me is not stronger than whatever idiot came between us, or some gossip and rumors, or other people's prodding.. then his love for me is not as powerful as mine for him. When I love someone, nothing that any third party says can possibly get in the way. Believe me, they have tried. I've had vengeful exes try to break up me and whoever. I've had THEIR vengeful exes do it. I've been subject to gossip, betrayal, slandering, etc. None of it can touch me. The way I see it, anyone who knows me should know what kind of things I would do, and what kind of things I wouldn't do. If they believe a bullshit rumor about me, and that is what drags them away from me, they don't deserve to be in my life.

I can completely abide by questions. For instance if someone loves me and says "I see pictures of you kissing this other guy, what is that about?" I can tell him " Those pictures are 5 years old. Look at my haircut. Look at my eyebrows. See this old picture? I don't even have that shirt anymore." But I understand why he would be upset, and I welcome the questioning.

What I cannot abide by, is people NOT asking me, but just drifting away from me because of stupid shit that ohter people did. If their love is 1/100th as powerful as mine, they would ASK ME FLAT OUT instead of being weak enough to fall for that crap. If I really did the thing I am accused of by a third party, then they can feel free to leave me - but if they love me, they know what kind of things I do and what kind of things I don't do, and they know that I am honest.. so of course I understand if they ask me.. but if they leave me for something I didn't do or because of something someone else said about me... good riddance.


----------



## Dalton

Animal said:


> If other humans are able to come between me and someone, then he is not worthy of my love.


This was my reaction as well, but I just didn't feel like saying it.
It should be noted that others can interfere with your relationships by guilting you into focusing upon things that are supposedly more important.

For example, you have no choice but to leave town if you want to be with your love, but your mother is ill and overemphasizes her needs to keep you from leaving.


----------



## Flatlander

Dalton said:


> It should be noted that others can interfere with your relationships by guilting you into focusing upon things that are supposedly more important.


They can certainly try.


----------



## Animal

Dalton said:


> This was my reaction as well, but I just didn't feel like saying it.
> It should be noted that others can interfere with your relationships by guilting you into focusing upon things that are supposedly more important.
> 
> For example, you have no choice but to leave town if you want to be with your love, but your mother is ill and overemphasizes her needs to keep you from leaving.





Flatlander said:


> They can certainly try.


Guilt trips don't work on me. Attempts are laughable.

That said I would be there for my parents if they were sick. They would NEVER ask me to be, but they have been there for me through my illness. So despite my grievances with my parents, problems we may have, arguments etc, I will be there for them. But real love should be able to survive that. My parents don't do the whole "guilt trip" thing at all. So I am fortunate for that. But anytime in my life that someone did that to try to control my actions it was laughable. It is one thing I'm very immune to.

Playing on my empathy can work wonders though. If someone wants to manipulate me , that's how you do it. get to my heart. But guilt trips..absolutely doesn't work.


----------



## Flatlander

Animal said:


> Guilt trips don't work on me. Attempts are laughable.
> 
> That said I would be there for my parents if they were sick. They would NEVER ask me to be, but they have been there for me through my illness. So despite my grievances with my parents, problems we may have, arguments etc, I will be there for them. But real love should be able to survive that. My parents don't do the whole "guilt trip" thing at all. So I am fortunate for that. But anytime in my life that someone did that to try to control my actions it was laughable. It is one thing I'm very immune to.
> 
> Playing on my empathy can work wonders though. If someone wants to manipulate me , that's how you do it. get to my heart. But guilt trips..absolutely doesn't work.


Guilt trips are about the easiest thing to see through at this point in my life. If you see through something, how can you possibly fall for it.


----------



## Animal

Flatlander said:


> Guilt trips are about the easiest thing to see through at this point in my life. If you see through something, how can you possibly fall for it.


I have guilt about things I did that were against my own ... goals? I feel guilty when I work against myself, basically. But I don't feel guilty for not doing things that other people want me to do. Call me a sociopath but I just don't feel it. I do have high empathy however.


----------



## perpetuallyreticent

I've got a problem.

I tend to jump the gun when I think I've finally found my type, whether in Enneagram, MBTI or just the instinctual variants. So when I thought I was sx-first, I stuck with it. But now I'm not so sure, after reading some descriptions of so/sx and sx/so, if I'm even sx-first. See, I do have a very sx-first outlook and reaction to romantic relationships, but I'm not so sure it's applied anywhere else. 

Does anybody have any helpful links or descriptions that could help me?  I really have no idea if I'm so or sx first. Sx seems so obvious sometimes, but then Soc seems a bit more incorporated in my daily life and how I interact with others. So I'm not sure.


----------



## Golden Rose

Sometimes my sx peacefully fades into the background, it's relaxing and recharging, as much as figuring out and embracing who I am. It's also sad since my endless dreams become nothing but quiet whispers that I can't follow just yet.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Animal said:


> I have guilt about things I did that were against my own ... goals? I feel guilty when I work against myself, basically. *But I don't feel guilty for not doing things that other people want me to do.* Call me a sociopath but I just don't feel it. I do have high empathy however.


That doesn't make you a sociopath; that makes you, self-determining; as you already know, sociopaths lack empathy for other people; sociopath is not the antithesis of doormat. XD


----------



## avidity

I feel like sometimes I blatantly use people to indirectly fulfill my sx needs. Being soc-last there is no smoothness to it. I can pay a person zero attention until a specific use for them arises and suddenly they are my new best friend. Except I'm sure they can see through me since I can't keep up the facade of being interested once I'm all set with them. This is worse when I'm almost but not totally in a relationship. I start seeking people out to "help" me look good to the potential someone. I wish I didn't have to pretend but being my loner self hasn't gotten me anywhere. Perhaps if and once I do get into something more stable I can stop awkwardly and overzealously insinuating myself into peoples' lives, which is totally not me usually.


----------



## HellCat

People need to pull their fucking weight in my house. Promising they will "pay me back" adds absolutely no gain for me. That might take ten y ears and likely will. You motherfuckers not being lazy self absorbed spazzes and would be a little bit thankful and giving, doing my dishes, sweeping, mopping and just being pleasant and not running to me every day with another dysfunction like I am the queen of this property would be enough pay.

I leave in a month forever. Stop harassing me to clean and mediate and grow the fuck up.

I am not your fucking mother. 


PEACE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MONEY.


----------



## HellCat

Determining how to decorate a house when moving in with your partner is an interesting conversation. With Scelerat.. it goes beyond.

Me- Why are we displaying all of our books? 
Him- They look nice that way
Me- how many times a day do you even LOOK at your books? most of the time your head is simply buried in one. 

Him- Raising his eyebrow and cocking his head- At least FIVE. Then I touch myself. 

Me- this is going on perc.


----------



## Jamie.Ether

Sometimes I really want someone to fight with me. 
Not all the time. But, sometimes, yes. 
I've had way too many passive aggressive people in my life.
If I'm out of line, tell me. Get mad at me. Especially if I'm being unfair to you. Tell me. Yell at me.
When my passion is met with this: .... -_- ...
Dear Lawd, you're just poking my demons! :/


----------



## Dalton

Jamie.Ether said:


> Sometimes I really want someone to fight with me.
> Not all the time. But, sometimes, yes.
> I've had way too many passive aggressive people in my life.
> If I'm out of line, tell me. Get mad at me. Especially if I'm being unfair to you. Tell me. Yell at me.
> When my passion is met with this: .... -_- ...
> Dear Lawd, you're just poking my demons! :/


I can relate entirely.
"Challenge me directly or STFU."


----------



## Flatlander

Jamie.Ether said:


> Sometimes I really want someone to fight with me.
> Not all the time. But, sometimes, yes.
> I've had way too many passive aggressive people in my life.
> If I'm out of line, tell me. Get mad at me. Especially if I'm being unfair to you. Tell me. Yell at me.
> When my passion is met with this: .... -_- ...
> Dear Lawd, you're just poking my demons! :/


When someone is passive aggressive to me, it just leaves me less inclined to deal with them in the future. I don't want aggression, but I want directness - actually stating what you're thinking is a must so we can resolve whatever issue actually exists. Passive aggression resolves nothing.


----------



## Animal

Sometimes survival comes at a cost.

If I had to choose between rejection and watching someone slip into the abyss, I would choose rejection every time. Rejection gives me my heart back, once and for all. When someone is walking a path I know will destroy us both, the burden of choice is on me. Generally I like making choices, but it is heartbreaking when deep down, I want more than anything to stay at this person's side and save them, especially when I know this isn't their fault and it is a result of tragedy of trauma. But I am not strong enough. It's like trying to stop a tornado with my hands.

I remember a dream I had years ago. The man I loved was in the passenger seat and I was driving. Our other friend was in the back. The car went under water. The friend in the back opened his door and I opened mine, and he managed to pull me up. I reached down to offer my lover a hand, but his seatbelt was fastened. If I dove down to unfasten it, I would have drowned. All he had to do was unfasten it - it was right in his reach - but he didn't. He just let the water take him. My choice was to go down together, or to let him go down alone. In that fast moment, I chose to go up to the shore.

The friend and I sat on the shore. We were sad and we talked. Could we have done anything differently? What if we had done xyz?

The dream played over and over, and we kept trying different things - but there was nothing we could have done. No matter what we did, the only way to save him was for him to unfasten his own seatbelt.

People have to have the will to save themselves. Love is not enough. In my experience, this is the true meaning of heartbreak.


----------



## HellCat

Book conversation, Part Two:


me- so I am going to have my books at the top I think or the very bottom.
Him- I don't think we should think, "your books" my books" we share everything else. I think they should be organized by topic and alphabetically. 


Apparently I made a face because he started laughing. 

Him- I see, you're having my baby, we're getting married, we share everything but you aren't sure you are ready to commit to blending your books with mine. 

....Are you afraid they will influence your books? That they will become sentient. That I will somehow corrupt your books?

brene browns vulnerability book turns into-- How to use your shame.... to win at marketing! 

Me- laughing too damn hard and realizing I am very eccentric and weird about my books


----------



## Donovan

Animal said:


> Sometimes survival comes at a cost.
> 
> If I had to choose between rejection and watching someone slip into the abyss, I would choose rejection every time. Rejection gives me my heart back, once and for all. When someone is walking a path I know will destroy us both, the burden of choice is on me. Generally I like making choices, but it is heartbreaking when deep down, I want more than anything to stay at this person's side and save them, especially when I know this isn't their fault and it is a result of tragedy of trauma. But I am not strong enough. It's like trying to stop a tornado with my hands.
> 
> I remember a dream I had years ago. The man I loved was in the passenger seat and I was driving. Our other friend was in the back. The car went under water. The friend in the back opened his door and I opened mine, and he managed to pull me up. I reached down to offer my lover a hand, but his seatbelt was fastened. If I dove down to unfasten it, I would have drowned. All he had to do was unfasten it - it was right in his reach - but he didn't. He just let the water take him. My choice was to go down together, or to let him go down alone. In that fast moment, I chose to go up to the shore.
> 
> The friend and I sat on the shore. We were sad and we talked. Could we have done anything differently? What if we had done xyz?
> 
> The dream played over and over, and we kept trying different things - but there was nothing we could have done. No matter what we did, the only way to save him was for him to unfasten his own seatbelt.
> 
> People have to have the will to save themselves. Love is not enough. In my experience, this is the true meaning of heartbreak.


i can relate in a way, though i don't know if mine would be as pure as yours, in the sense of 'love vs need' (or a belief of "need", as the necessity of "needing another" may not actually exist outside of a person's head)... it may sound odd but i find that i have a "saving people"-aspect to my personality, that can corrupt a feeling, make it seem as if it is truly love, when in fact the pull becomes so strong that i question whether the urge is pure emotion, or if it is just some malformed and totally unaware attempt at healing... 

for that matter, i have to wonder what love is to begin with; if such a thing as truly selfless love exists outside of movies and the ideals of books. if we aren't drawn towards another by how our past has shaped us, and if what we call love is just the potential of mutual healing through a very strong bond; a bond strengthened by disparate but nonetheless matching, pains (... and sometimes "joys", if we're lucky). 

there have been situations--with friends, and with those who have been closer--where it just became necessary to draw back and to force myself to see that what i had taken for my world or my reality was in fact something much smaller than what the world offered... sometimes i've been a very slow, almost masochistic learner in the process. 


not much else to say really. not even a real point to posting this, lol. what you said resonated is all.


----------



## Donovan

this is almost the opposite of Sx, or a numbing of it in a way: i got a dog! (i'll explain)


my brother had two, the second a stray that had obviously been abused. he does whatever hard manual labor that he can, as he's physical in his nature and likes the "less polite" atmosphere. the... "oil-area" (as opposed to a rig) he was working at dried up, so he got rid of one of the dogs at a pit-shelter, but the second--the beat-down mixed pit--wouldn't have been taken in as they "weren't in the business of caring for an animal long term", and his mixed status was unpopular in the area, so that's what it would have likely turned into: them having to keep the dog, or having to send it to the city pound. 

so he dropped one off, then brought his daughter and wife south to stay with our grandparents (he plans to sleep in his car because he's always set on doing stuff the hardest way possible [lol], and because it allows him to "eat whatever the hell he wants, without [his] wife saying anything"). the rest of our family in the area is loaded down with animals, strays they've taken in, or animals that they sought out... so they asked my roommate and i if we would help out. 


he--Loki--is a ~1 year old lab/pit-mix [as far as my apartment complex is concerned: he's a lab/boxer-mix ] who's solid black with a white diamond on his chest; all lanky length, with too-big paws and a giant head that is somehow wider than his hips. basically, he's a giant puppy who believes he can fit in your lap... with a fetish for hiding shoes--and even, very oddly enough, arranging them in pairs on the couch (the first place i look to get ready in the mornings). 

he'll hop onto my bed and instinctively come between my laptop and myself, putting first, his head against my chest with his butt still sticking up into the air, and then corkscrewing his way in between. i honestly cannot walk a foot without having to walk around him, nor can i go to the bathroom in privacy without him trying to zoom in there with me. when i want to relax and have a bath with netflix or pandora going, i have to leave the door open so he can come in and curiously--but warily, cause it's the "dreaded bathtub"--peer into its depths... or else the poor thing will sit outside and whine continuously... and if the door's closed while he's inside, he'll sit next to it and sigh audibly lol. 

he gets cotton mouth from what seems to be minor panic attacks (quick heavy breathing for no apparent reason), then drinks half a gallon of water... so he needs to be taken out about 27,000 times a day, or he'll piss what amounts to gallon at a time all across the carpet... he jumps into bed at 5:00 am (when i've most likely been asleep for only a few hours), with his too-small-for-his-head-ears perked up, pawing at my face like he's challenging me to a duel in an "en garde"-fashion, until i take him out into the 30 degree/15-with-a-windchill weather, so he can empty the gallon he's likely just drained in a matter of seconds... 

he's completely unsocialized and misinterprets another older dog's cold, steady and still stare as "oh my god! donovan! look! another dog! oh my god! he wants to play! do you think he wants to play?! oh why am i even asking?! of course he wants to play! i'll just swat him in the face with my big ass paws!--en garde!"...



but honestly, all of that is completely worth it, because when i first brought him home he pulled out of his collar and took off running in a strange-to-his-self-area through the cold rain, freaking out. when i got him into my apartment, he wouldn't even come out of his kennel at first--he just sat there, in something way too small for him, with his ears folded back. i cut off all the lights except for the dimmest.

he'd come out, take five steps warily and wide-eyed, literally searching the corners to and fro, and then dart back into his cage, whining. he'd come out, take ten steps, start whining, and run back. he wouldn't even eat the sandwich meat--which is a fucking delicacy for dogs--but just whined and cowered, and ran and ducked at the slightest sounds... i'll take his puppyish-delight--even with the accompanied shoving of his wet, cold nose into my crotch--over his cowering any day. 


------------------------

and this is kind of the reverse of Sx, to me at least. he is so damn frustrating, and it's like having (although, of course, on a much smaller scale), a child. everything revolves around encouraging his good behavior, and very gently admonishing the "bad"--with the sounds of what he's gotten into, like rustling trash bags and saying "no" in a more serious, less nurturing voice--and attempting to be ever-patient. 

but i think it's working out. he's a stud and a chick magnet for one [], and he's young enough to avoid having his previous abuse set into a more permanent foundation... i think i'll like having a dog; it oddly enough calms me down quite a bit.


----------



## Golden Rose

I'm annoyed and angry at everything. But mostly I'm annoyed and angry at myself for not being able to convey my feelings, for being impossible to understand even by those who matter, for not having enough control, or at least never enough, never reaching my own ideal. Wanting the intensity I can't produce on my own and not allowing myself what I want, getting off all of my angst, sulking and self blaming.

And for posting this which is an infinitesimal shallow stain. I'm not even sx-first what am I doing here?


----------



## Sixty Nein

Animal said:


> ~Unleash your SX. Let it rip, rant, and rage. Feel free to purge until you attain catharsis.~​


There is never catharsis, just an unquenchable thirst.


----------



## Animal

Donovan said:


> i can relate in a way, though i don't know if mine would be as pure as yours, in the sense of 'love vs need' (or a belief of "need", as the necessity of "needing another" may not actually exist outside of a person's head)... it may sound odd but i find that i have a "saving people"-aspect to my personality, that can corrupt a feeling, make it seem as if it is truly love, when in fact the pull becomes so strong that i question whether the urge is pure emotion, or if it is just some malformed and totally unaware attempt at healing...
> 
> for that matter, i have to wonder what love is to begin with; if such a thing as truly selfless love exists outside of movies and the ideals of books. if we aren't drawn towards another by how our past has shaped us, and if what we call love is just the potential of mutual healing through a very strong bond; a bond strengthened by disparate but nonetheless matching, pains (... and sometimes "joys", if we're lucky).
> 
> there have been situations--with friends, and with those who have been closer--where it just became necessary to draw back and to force myself to see that what i had taken for my world or my reality was in fact something much smaller than what the world offered... sometimes i've been a very slow, almost masochistic learner in the process.
> 
> 
> not much else to say really. not even a real point to posting this, lol. what you said resonated is all.


I would agree that in some cases, saving someone serves a selfish need. There is a great example of this: look no further than 2 descriptions. Being that 2 is my disintegration point I am more than aware of the dark side that comes with wanting to help someone. If I help him then I am the most important person in his life.. etc. I have never claimed to be completely selfless. ;P

But there is also the harsh reality that people go through traumas. When I was unhealthy I wanted to save someone who was slave to his own mind and impulses, and that is why my dream told me to leave him behind (and I did!) ... but when a friend or love interest is faced with real trauma, my every instinct is to be supportive and be the 'bigger' person. What good is my strength if I cannot help someone I love who is truly suffering?


----------



## Donovan

Animal said:


> I would agree that in some cases, saving someone serves a selfish need. There is a great example of this: look no further than 2 descriptions. Being that 2 is my disintegration point I am more than aware of the dark side that comes with wanting to help someone. If I help him then I am the most important person in his life.. etc. I have never claimed to be completely selfless. ;P
> 
> But there is also the harsh reality that people go through traumas. When I was unhealthy I wanted to save someone who was slave to his own mind and impulses, and that is why my dream told me to leave him behind (and I did!) ... but when a friend or love interest is faced with real trauma, my every instinct is to be supportive and be the 'bigger' person. What good is my strength if I cannot help someone I love who is truly suffering?
> 
> To frame it another way, I grow from helping people I care about. It teaches me about myself, shows me my strength and my limits, reveals to me the point at which my selflessness ends and my desire to shine begins. It is a learning experience for me. But the bottom line is that sometimes it just feels right. And I don't see the point in ignoring my instincts and questioning if what I feel is "real." My feelings are my reality, and the best thing I can do for myself is to honor them.


oh i'm sorry, i didn't mean to imply that that was the case for you... or even that it was definitely the case for myself, really (thinking a standard to death--the base of what you can then judge another thing off of--can completely throw off any judgement/conclusion that is related _to_ that standard... for myself at least... and i guess that's 6'ness for you, after a fashion, and maybe what leads to their nihilism, second guessing, and a need for a differing perspective: because they have thought themselves into confusion, lol, and even upon finding the right answer, they may not even realize it... as i've come to that same thought before, only to pull back from it entirely, only to come towards it once more, and so on...). 


but i do like your outlook, as it implies there doesn't necessarily need to be a "reasonable reason", as in sense--not that it isn't found in this specific case--but it does not _have_ to be found in every direction while under scrutiny, but instead can be _made_ by just choosing and doing. and also, that the action itself--whether cutting inner ties in order to be there (i take it, by being the "bigger person"), or by doing purely for the sake of support--is in itself not only 'self-sustaining' in that growth is found, but also 'other-sustaining' as well, as one is now more capable of being what is called for from another. 

thank'ya! helps to see one of those "conclusions" from a standard enforced somewhere other than my own head--like, "no! one of those is right, the others only exist to show why the former is true, by contrast of experience had from choosing the wrong ones"; positive enforcement.


----------



## CaptSwan

Well, a lot has happened since I last posted here. Steps 1 and 2 of my dream are already a done deal; it's exciting and terrifying to have your dream so close and yet so far away. Fortunately, given how fast time flies these days; it'll soon be in my hands... My chance to face the music. Also, I found the perfect definition of my identity; based simply on one image... an image that, despite being of an inanimate object; struck me so hard, on so many levels... There's nothing like the process of bringing up your ture identity into the world... Must be how that satisfaction some women have upon giving birth to their children feels like. Giving birth to me; in full Kodachrome and Dolby Stereo :laughing:; one more charming little devil to unleash over here.


----------



## The Scorched Earth

I'm hungry now and should probably get some food soon, but honestly I would rather hook up.


----------



## CaptSwan

There's nothing more invigorating, exciting and just energizing than freedom. Fighting the shackles which you put yourself and just; breaking free from them, releasing yourself and coming to peace regarding many things which you've felt were weights and abominable things that you had to purge out. It's liberating to start accepting yourself and who you are; despite whatever things other people might say about you. :happy: No fears, no shames, no labels. Just be yourself.


----------



## ScientiaOmnisEst

Sx-second:

Nothing makes me feel more alive than my mind plowing through all the possibilities and technicalities of my own idea. It becomes this rapid-fire, effortlessly-flowing rush of thought and I love it. Possible solutions come as quickly as the problems themselves, everything connecting and branching and at the same time coalescing into a great visionary expanse. Holy crap I love that. The idea may not even be good but it doesn't even matter.


----------



## HellCat

Pregnancy hormones are making me so feeling these days. ugh


----------



## Golden Rose

Animal said:


> Apparently he thinks he can replace me. I wish him luck. At least I know he will leave his mark on me for the rest of my life. I know I will carry this scar to the grave. In his innocence, he may not realize what he is in for.


You're a true warrior and this is not something I throw around lightly.

Whatever you choose to do, I hope it'll feed your soul and give you even more strength.


----------



## Animal

Hotaru said:


> You're a true warrior and this is not something I throw around lightly.
> 
> Whatever you choose to do, I hope it'll feed your soul and give you even more strength.


Thank you <3

I want to give him everything, but all I am able to give him is pain and confusion. I am clearly not strong enough...


----------



## Golden Rose

Animal said:


> Thank you <3
> 
> I want to give him everything, but all I am able to give him is pain and confusion. I am clearly not strong enough...


No, that's not true and trust me I know how it feels to constantly think you're unworthy of the person you love. But you have plenty of strength that he refuses to see and if choosing to sharpen your heart is the choice that resonates with you the strongest, who's to say it's not right? 

Only you know how to drain your own blood.

This song reminds me of you right now, not what I'd post but I spend too much time posting personal songs and my own feelings can catch a break (as if). I support your fire, burn it all down.






"All is equal in love and war"
And I'm sorry, but I've got some things to do
And you pretend to read a book
You'll never finish till the day

Take it all in <3


----------



## Flatlander

TruthDismantled said:


> Do you guys ever feel like you just connect with people? Like some people you just hit it off with, and realise how similar you are?


I think that happens for most people from time to time, sx or not.

Though similarity isn't necessarily the biggest basis for why I click with someone.


----------



## TruthDismantled

Flatlander said:


> I think that happens for most people from time to time, sx or not.
> 
> Though similarity isn't necessarily the biggest basis for why I click with someone.


I actually ask because I never seem to get that with anyone. As in I can fall for someone quickly and enjoy swimming in those beginning feelings of excitement, nervousness, etc. but I never really feel a connection with people, like an instant we really match each other. I'm talking male or female here. 

But I relate to Sx in the sense of being competitive, all-or-nothing energy levels, intensity.


----------



## mimesis

Animal said:


> Thank you <3
> 
> I want to give him everything, but all I am able to give him is pain and confusion. I am clearly not strong enough...


You wrote about guys you had declined in the past. I assume they wanted to give you their everything. I also assume you didn't decline them because they were innately unworthy of or incapable of loving. You can't blame them, nor you for dreams shattered, or heartbreak. Maybe they blame you, or perhaps conclude you got to be lesbian for declining such a great offer and maybe even spread the word (lie) to channel their anger (rage) to protect themselves (self-image) from narcissistic injury (shame, humiliation). Or they blame themselves, conclude they are innately unworthy or inadequate, directing anger to themselves (self-loathing) afraid to open their heart ever again. I don't think there is anyone to blame really, and I don't think you blamed the ones who's offer you declined. If anything, the match failed. But the problem with this kind of closure, closest to truth as it may likely be, is that you can't channel anger at a concept (a particular match), or stop your heart from bleeding. And the easier way is when the heart grows cold and transforms attachment to hatred and smoldering resentment.

I'm really sad about the disappointment you have to cope with, because I wish you love and heaven. It pains me to see you direct anger at yourself. Much as I understand why people do, as explained above, I really wish you didn't.


----------



## Flatlander

TruthDismantled said:


> I actually ask because I never seem to get that with anyone. As in I can fall for someone quickly and enjoy swimming in those beginning feelings of excitement, nervousness, etc. but I never really feel a connection with people, like an instant we really match each other. I'm talking male or female here.
> 
> But I relate to Sx in the sense of being competitive, all-or-nothing energy levels, intensity.


Energy levels, intensity and competitiveness are not definitionally sx. Nor, necessarily, is _matching_ people. Matching people sounds like your particular vision for compatibility.

Sx is bent on finding and focusing on individual connections between you and the elements of your environment, as well as the things connected with. That can be with people or other things, such as a hobby or a particular type of movie. Sx doms are often perceived or experienced as intense by others because each thing in their life is a singular focus for them. It's kinda like Smith, the martian from Stranger in a Strange Land - when he went to kiss a girl, he would focus entirely on that experience _and nothing else_, so the girl would find it the most intense thing in the world.


----------



## Animal

Hotaru said:


> No, that's not true and trust me I know how it feels to constantly think you're unworthy of the person you love. But you have plenty of strength that he refuses to see and if choosing to sharpen your heart is the choice that resonates with you the strongest, who's to say it's not right?
> 
> Only you know how to drain your own blood.
> 
> This song reminds me of you right now, not what I'd post but I spend too much time posting personal songs and my own feelings can catch a break (as if). I support your fire, burn it all down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "All is equal in love and war"
> And I'm sorry, but I've got some things to do
> And you pretend to read a book
> You'll never finish till the day
> 
> Take it all in <3





mimesis said:


> You wrote about guys you had declined in the past. I assume they wanted to give you their everything. I also assume you didn't decline them because they were innately unworthy of or incapable of loving. You can't blame them, nor you for dreams shattered, or heartbreak. Maybe they blame you, or perhaps conclude you got to be lesbian for declining such a great offer and maybe even spread the word (lie) to channel their anger (rage) to protect themselves (self-image) from narcissistic injury (shame, humiliation). Or they blame themselves, conclude they are innately unworthy or inadequate, directing anger to themselves (self-loathing) afraid to open their heart ever again. I don't think there is anyone to blame really, and I don't think you blamed the ones who's offer you declined. If anything, the match failed. But the problem with this kind of closure, closest to truth as it may likely be, is that you can't channel anger at a concept (a particular match), or stop your heart from bleeding. And the easier way is when the heart grows cold and transforms attachment to hatred and smoldering resentment.
> 
> I'm really sad about the disappointment you have to cope with, because I wish you love and heaven. It pains me to see you direct anger at yourself. Much as I understand why people do, as explained above, I really wish you didn't.





















*hugs you both*


----------



## Animal

insomnia..


----------



## daleks_exterminate

I am both happy and miserable. I feel pure joy, such synergy, love, devotion, want, desire..... But miserable because I'm holding my breath. I'm waiting for a volcano to erupt on my world of bliss. I'm waiting for my faults to kick my ass. I'm waiting to fuck everything up. I'm terrified that is can't last. I want it to more than I've wanted anything, oxygen, a pulse, I'd trade my soul for it to last.... But it will crush me if it ends


----------



## mimesis

Animal said:


> *hugs you both*


 *hugs you back*

Heh...that black kitty is so glomped.


----------



## mimesis

TruthDismantled said:


> I actually ask because I never seem to get that with anyone. As in I can fall for someone quickly and enjoy swimming in those beginning feelings of excitement, nervousness, etc. but I never really feel a connection with people, like an instant we really match each other. I'm talking male or female here.
> 
> But I relate to Sx in the sense of being competitive, all-or-nothing energy levels, intensity.


Have you ever felt a connection with music for instance?


----------



## TruthDismantled

mimesis said:


> Have you ever felt a connection with music for instance?


Yep I do feel what I'd consider strong connections with a lot of music. I'd play those songs on repeat for absolutely ages, 30 minutes or more in one go sometimes.


----------



## TruthDismantled

Flatlander said:


> Energy levels, intensity and competitiveness are not definitionally sx. Nor, necessarily, is _matching_ people. Matching people sounds like your particular vision for compatibility.
> 
> Sx is bent on finding and focusing on individual connections between you and the elements of your environment, as well as the things connected with. That can be with people or other things, such as a hobby or a particular type of movie. Sx doms are often perceived or experienced as intense by others because each thing in their life is a singular focus for them. It's kinda like Smith, the martian from Stranger in a Strange Land - when he went to kiss a girl, he would focus entirely on that experience _and nothing else_, so the girl would find it the most intense thing in the world.


Well not matching people but being compatible, however that comes about. I don't have a huge vision for compatibility, just not too introverted usually. 

But yeah I get into hobbies Sx style, it becomes my focus. Like snooker for instance, I could play for hours on end and at the expense of bigger priorities. I'd start watching it on the tv, looking to buy new cues, playing everyday, all within the first couple weeks of picking up the sport. Then.....I burn out and it becomes boring.


----------



## CaptSwan

Talking today to a person whom I have very close in my heart and with whom I've made a very intimate, dear and strong spiritual bond; I unearthed a dream of mine... After that, like life was to give me a message; I remembered the value of hope, of holding on to your dreams, to stay true and loyal to yourself regardless of anything and; most importantly, to cast out fear out of my soul. It's all in my hands... For hope to be powerful and unstoppable, it requires willpower to be brought into the real world and to make a difference. 

"The road is my home, tomorrow my destination
Fantasies and delusions the things that make me run
I embrace my fate, with sorrow and joy
I am The Traveler, to wander is my call."


----------



## Animal

I feel better than I have felt in a while.
I am so incredibly blessed to have amazing friends. 
I hate admitting I have needs. I hate leaning on anyone. Yet the outpour of love and support I have received as of late, is overwhelming and ended up giving me hope that might otherwise have been lost.

Wow. Thank you all.
I am so lucky.


----------



## galactic collision

[stays up 2 hours later than intended flirting with a girl from one of my classes over facebook messenger]

I have no regrets.


----------



## HellCat

On my honeymoon with @Scelerat 

We just measured our queen and realized they are calling full size beds "queens" at this establishment before we get to our destination.


He keeps making fun of my obsessive list making.


----------



## mimesis

:happy: congratulations @LeoCat and @Scelerat !
I'm so happy for you both. 










*throws rice*

Now y'all have a wonderful life together!


----------



## mimesis

TruthDismantled said:


> Yep I do feel what I'd consider strong connections with a lot of music. I'd play those songs on repeat for absolutely ages, 30 minutes or more in one go sometimes.


In that sense it's not necessarily 1 on 1, at least not necessarily literally person to person or body to body in same place and time (in this case likely a group, performing 'as one', which doesn't necessarily also include the actual creator of the music), and more a figure of speech of 'otherness' and therefore not so much 'similarity' but more like 'resonance' in vibration and intensity, and not so much unification through objectification but transformation and transcendence of Self, and the boundaries of space and time and ultimately, even if temporarily become one with the universe. 

Well...at least it's a nice way to introduce this trailer of the excellent Nick Cave docu-drama I saw a week ago. :tongue:


----------



## Golden Rose




----------



## HellCat

Looking forward to Operation expose the nasty slut.

I wish the guys would get the rocks out of their boxers and get to work finalizing it FFS.


----------



## knife

Random runaway subway train of thought ...

I mentioned something a little while ago about the Enlightenment distinction between the "beautiful" and the "sublime". The "beautiful": balanced, proportioned, and at a fundamental level, _controlled_; the "sublime": vast, grand, deep, and at a fundamental level, _wild_. Examples Enlightenment thinkers used to illustrate the sublime especially were of storms (Kant's favorite, probably because--much like Cleveland on Lake Erie--Königsberg seems to be in the Baltic Sea's snow belt) and the Alps (which the Englishmen preferred) ...

Beauty is _tamed_. Sublimity is _feral_.

The Romantic movement was the first major art movement to expressly evoke the sublime over the beautiful, though of course there've always been masterpieces that have (Rubens' _Prometheus Bound_ immediately comes to my mind). At a certain level, the Romantics took this aesthetic sublime and used it to differentiate themselves from their Mannerist precursors. There is an _enormous_ difference between the Mannerist music of Mozart--heavily focused on traditional realizations of beauty--and that of the Romantic Beethoven.

It is, interestingly enough, exactly the same as the difference between punk music, which strips down technical prowess in favor of rawer emotional evocation (for whatever purpose at hand), and other branches of rock, which have developed increasing technical complexity. One seeks beauty in harmony; the other wants naught but to be wild.

I'd argue that to be Sx is to have a _feral_ instinct. This is partly why what appeals most to us is evocation of the sublime. We _want_ that rawness and we feel malcontent when something's overly polished.


----------



## Flatlander

knife said:


> Random runaway subway train of thought ...
> 
> I mentioned something a little while ago about the Enlightenment distinction between the "beautiful" and the "sublime". The "beautiful": balanced, proportioned, and at a fundamental level, _controlled_; the "sublime": vast, grand, deep, and at a fundamental level, _wild_. Examples Enlightenment thinkers used to illustrate the sublime especially were of storms (Kant's favorite, probably because--much like Cleveland on Lake Erie--Königsberg seems to be in the Baltic Sea's snow belt) and the Alps (which the Englishmen preferred) ...
> 
> Beauty is _tamed_. Sublimity is _feral_.
> 
> The Romantic movement was the first major art movement to expressly evoke the sublime over the beautiful, though of course there've always been masterpieces that have (Rubens' _Prometheus Bound_ immediately comes to my mind). At a certain level, the Romantics took this aesthetic sublime and used it to differentiate themselves from their Mannerist precursors. There is an _enormous_ difference between the Mannerist music of Mozart--heavily focused on traditional realizations of beauty--and that of the Romantic Beethoven.
> 
> It is, interestingly enough, exactly the same as the difference between punk music, which strips down technical prowess in favor of rawer emotional evocation (for whatever purpose at hand), and other branches of rock, which have developed increasing technical complexity. One seeks beauty in harmony; the other wants naught but to be wild.
> 
> I'd argue that to be Sx is to have a _feral_ instinct. This is partly why what appeals most to us is evocation of the sublime. We _want_ that rawness and we feel malcontent when something's overly polished.


Don't agree precisely, I think that may be your independent expression of the instinct. (Are you a core 4 with Fi perchance? Or at least something with Fi?) But I enjoyed your post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HellCat

I am so upset with how my whore sister in law is treating my grandmother, her kids and my sister and the news of her constant decades long infidelity, because my brother worships her. 
. I am working on building a relationship with my mother. Because I want her in the loop to protect my brother when the time comes he is given the sheaf of evidence the guys have been gathering.

I am wondering if my mother's abuse and narcissism was due to being such a young mother, being stoned most of the time, her mental illness and later, a fear of trying to talk to me. Last night we talked four hours and it was healing.

I am trying to understand my sister in law's viewpoint here but I just cannot fathom being so callous, stirring lies and drama.

Shes had four kids. Whenever she was pregnant she was peaceful. Now that my brother had an operation so she cannot get pregnant. She is back to stirring drama more than ever. 

I need to put the puzzle pieces together on my whiteboard maybe they will come together. There is an end game here but what is it!

Suggesting sabotage, trying to drive wedges between my ailing grandmother, dans bestfriends, dans brother, My dad is stalking my brother a town away now, trying to find his house apparently the last month or so. If you knew your husband was on blood pressure pills for his stress and anxiety, despite being in good shape..why suggest others are "sabotaging him" and stirring up fights with an ailing old lady

I do not think there is room for empathy there. I think shes a bad egg. Willie Wonka style. I hope he sees it before she drives him into a mental institution.

What possible reason could someone have for wanting to kill her husband with stress before he is 30. Unless she is trying to drive him so crazy he has to leave law enforcement for good. 

I have been reading my husbands vast library on psychopaths, narcissists et al, trying to understand her motivation.


----------



## Scelerat

LeoCat said:


> I am so upset with how my whore sister in law is treating my grandmother, her kids and my sister and the news of her constant decades long infidelity, because my brother worships her.
> . I am working on building a relationship with my mother. Because I want her in the loop to protect my brother when the time comes he is given the sheaf of evidence the guys have been gathering.
> 
> I am wondering if my mother's abuse and narcissism was due to being such a young mother, being stoned most of the time, her mental illness and later, a fear of trying to talk to me. Last night we talked four hours and it was healing.
> 
> I am trying to understand my sister in law's viewpoint here but I just cannot fathom being so callous, stirring lies and drama.
> 
> Shes had four kids. Whenever she was pregnant she was peaceful. Now that my brother had an operation so she cannot get pregnant. She is back to stirring drama more than ever.
> 
> I need to put the puzzle pieces together on my whiteboard maybe they will come together. There is an end game here but what is it!
> 
> Suggesting sabotage, trying to drive wedges between my ailing grandmother, dans bestfriends, dans brother, My dad is stalking my brother a town away now, trying to find his house apparently the last month or so. If you knew your husband was on blood pressure pills for his stress and anxiety, despite being in good shape..why suggest others are "sabotaging him" and stirring up fights with an ailing old lady
> 
> I do not think there is room for empathy there. I think shes a bad egg. Willie Wonka style. I hope he sees it before she drives him into a mental institution.
> 
> What possible reason could someone have for wanting to kill her husband with stress before he is 30. Unless she is trying to drive him so crazy he has to leave law enforcement for good.
> 
> I have been reading my husbands vast library on psychopaths, narcissists et al, trying to understand her motivation.


Any subgroup or psychopath, will seek to limit their victim(s) exposure to contrary thinkers and limit their support system. If someone is exposed to one-sided thinking, combined with having no escape, the sub-group or psychopath can wield a much higher degree of power, control and influence over them.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

I'm currently a little weirdly fixated on the Humanist Republic letters to an extreme. (Hi entp obsessiveness and sx focus and fixation) Erasmus was amazing. Instead of an over reliance on patronage like the other humanists, he established a republic of individuals who were passionate, full of zeal for their cause and wouldn't sell out their ideas or believes for the sake of provision or "honors." He cared deeply about the Catholic Church and had no intention of leaving it or separating from it. Instead he saw indulgences and other things that were wrong with the system in place and corruption happening and sought to change the entire system from the inside with a small band of dedicated like minded passionate and artistic people. This movement (Erasmus and the Humanist Republic specifically) deeply influenced (Sir/Saint) Thomas More who refused to sell out his beliefs in the face of King Henry pressuring him for support in his divorce. Thomas More refused and clung deeply to his believes and his faith once again wouldn't leave the church, but sought to cleanse it from within. Henry had him killed but he still didn't back down 

I'm not a catholic. I'm not even a Christian. I am however fascinated by the revolutionaries who stood up to the systems caustic corruption while still being loyal to the same system. There's something really surprising, subtle and interesting about this


----------



## cinnabun

I'm so fucking happy because @Daleks_Exterminate is back to being Daleks. Fuck that username nobody could mention XD.


----------



## knife

Rinnie said:


> I'm so fucking happy because @Daleks_Exterminate is back to being Daleks. Fuck that username nobody could mention XD.


*double take*

Well. So she is.


----------



## HellCat

Me- I need to import a broom from a taller country. They are too tiny here.

Him- Well honey can't you just use the one you flew here?


----------



## Scelerat

Me: You want carrots and peas in a pot pie right, I'll get a can with both.

Leocat makes facial expression that can best be described as a mixture of deep thought and disgust. 

Me: Why are you making your "I'm an aspie and I'm going to be difficult" face? 

I swear to god, I'm married to Sheldon Cooper. In other news, I'm importing scotch brite dish sponges from the U.S


----------



## HellCat

@_Scelerat_

Fresh carrots have a crunch. Canned would be soggy. Acceptable for peas but not for the god of vegetables- carrots mmm I want some. 

Mmm your potpie beats american.

Scotch brite dish sponges are the best on the market! They make it easier to do my job

Wheres my chinese food Amy? or do you role play as Leonard?


----------



## Catallena

I met someone in group therapy today. She had glaring sharp eyes and a scowl on her face, but when she sat down next to me I noticed her hands were shaking. The entire time I couldn't think of anything but her and her shivering hands. I was dying to just reach out and hold them. Of course I didn't, we're still strangers after all, but damn I can't get her out of my head now.


----------



## nichya

Siouxsie said:


> I met someone in group therapy today. She had glaring sharp eyes and a scowl on her face, but when she sat down next to me I noticed her hands were shaking. The entire time I couldn't think of anything but her and her shivering hands. I was dying to just reach out and hold them. Of course I didn't, we're still strangers after all, but damn I can't get her out of my head now.


I wonder if this is an sx thing? Sometimes I do want to touch people as in I am dying to touch their face or hair or something.


----------



## Catallena

nichya said:


> I wonder if this is an sx thing? Sometimes I do want to touch people as in I am dying to touch their face or hair or something.


Maybe? I'm a touchy-feely person especially when it comes to romantic/sexual interests. That's how I show affection, but others can express it in different ways and prefer to have their personal space so I guess it depends..










If someone with long hair sits infront of me in class I usually get a strong urge to start braiding it. :laughing:


----------



## knife

How'd you wind up with the cute post rank @Siouxsie?


----------



## Catallena

knife said:


> How'd you wind up with the cute post rank @Siouxsie?


----------



## Vayne

nvm


----------



## Veggie

Siouxsie said:


> If someone with long hair sits infront of me in class I usually get a strong urge to start braiding it. :laughing:


Lol! I used to work with a bunch of girls when I was doing massage therapy who would come up to me and randomly start braiding my hair. It was cute. Very touchy crowd. I can be moody with that, but I generally like it. Especially when I'm in massage mode.

Sometimes when I see strangers on the street I just want to grab them and start massaging them. If they're either holding a lot of tension, or if they have especially meaty muscles to dig into. (Look at those gastrocnemius muscles on that girl! <stuff like that).

Then I remember a principle when I was in high school who would randomly dole out shoulder massages to students (yes, really) and I reign in it.


----------



## Superfluous

To die, would be an awfully big adventure.


* *




I've had so many people tell me to "Take Care of Myself"... Sigh, and I know.. I have to.. I'm trying.. I think. What does it mean to take care of yourself really? How does one take care of themselves? I am not much of I priority to be motivated to take care of myself. People make it so seamless "oh just take care of yourself" what are these steps IM COMPLACENT OKAY

_I'm a tulip in a cup / I stand no chance of growing up_

I want better for myself but if not, it's cool too... I'm fine and content each way. Since my dad died, I've always lived for my pleasure, to my comfort. My dad was a kid himself, not really the best person to raise someone, so I don't really have the best habits. And I don't necessarily want people to call me adventurous as I travel about in the US like a little nomad or cheer me on, as I turn on music and make everyone dance but then hear whispers that "I'm killing myself." Awkward, much. I've been applying to uni's (well I applied to like... two) I guess "fake it til you make it" doesn't apply to life.

How is it that I can considered the most lively, yet.. most dead. I look at everyone progressing in life, and when I vision my future .. oh man is it grand. So with a heavy heart, I think to myself "To live, would be an awfully big adventure."


----------



## Sina

I loveeee meeting my dad's officer friends from the army. They are aging so gracefully. *fans self* They've seen and adored me as a child, and every time I am invited over to visit the base, it's heartwarming and beautiful. It's like they haven't forgotten my father, and they haven't forgotten me, after all these years. I haven't had much of a family of my own, but meeting these guys and their children with whom I grew up, just makes my day.


----------



## Superfluous

@LeoCat and I got super SX'd last night, I'm getting withdrawals now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Animal

leocat said:


> my in laws are teaching me how to insult my husband in their native tongue.
> 
> 
> Hahahahah


----------



## HellCat

Marriage- Two people living in a building, holding up mirrors demanding the other face what the other truly is.. There is no hiding who you are from someone you love. Love is different than just tolerating a guy until he leaves the house and you can breathe.


----------



## CaptSwan

After seeing some interactions I had today; the things I say, seeing how much fun other people have and how in my mind I go "I'd never stay up so late" or "I'd never do this" and how one person told me they'd never want to understand how I think... I realize just how boring I am. How square, tedious and, honestly quite fucking annoying I'd be for any person who wanted to hang out with me to be my friend. At all times, I'm that annoying party pooper who always wants to take "the safe side" and worries about the risks and costs of any activity, to the point where I extract the fun out of anything and everything. I can be funny, as long as I'm on my turf; anything else gets viciously rejected... I should just stay alone forever and spare everybody from the drag of having to share time with me; poor the woman or group of friends who're foolish enough to want to take me for a "fun night". God, I hate myself sometimes to the point where I want to bash my brains out on a wall...


OK, for this time's song; I leave you a quintessential Black Sabbath


----------



## kaleidoscope

It's almost odd to realize how people can limit themselves and their sexuality by sticking to one rigid definition of themselves, and putting themselves in that box. They miss out on _so much_ when they ignore the more fluid, fluctuating side, and where it can take them. 

So many possibilities. It's exciting for me just to think about how many facets of myself I will be unlocking with time. I will never get tired of exploring :3


----------



## HellCat

.


----------



## Sygma

Felt that amazing "magnet" sensation since oh so long. Working out sure fucking does wonders. Tiger is crawlin back slowly, its in my soul, my energy and I start to feel the claws all over my body again. Didn't feel that good since ... five years ? damn. Cant wait to be that unleashed animal in australia later this year  all the possibilities, beein totally by my own. Cant fucking wait


----------



## Superfluous

When my step-father tries to force plans on me just because it's beneficial to him. He doesn't know I'll be walking into the debataunt ball like this










talking about social awareness topics like FEMINISM 666 AND ANTI-CHILDABUSE ILLUMINATI and things of that DEATH TO SMALL TALK SORTS


----------



## cinnabun

kaleidoscope said:


> It's almost odd to realize how people can limit themselves and their sexuality by sticking to one rigid definition of themselves, and putting themselves in that box. They miss out on _so much_ when they ignore the more fluid, fluctuating side, and where it can take them.
> 
> So many possibilities. It's exciting for me just to think about how many facets of myself I will be unlocking with time. I will never get tired of exploring :3


Sexuality is not as black and white as it seems. Nobody is ever 100% straight or gay, there's always that grey area, but it's left untouched by most people.


----------



## Superfluous

Rinnay said:


> Sexuality is not as black and white as it seems. Nobody is ever 100% straight or gay, there's always that grey area, but it's left untouched by most people.


I agree and prefer the Kinsey scale,tbh. However demisexuality (as it always is), is foggy in that spectrum.


----------



## cinnabun

Superfluous said:


> I agree and prefer the Kinsey scale,tbh. However demisexuality (as it always is), is foggy in that spectrum.


Demisexuality is so misunderstood, it maka me crey...


----------



## Superfluous

Rinnay said:


> Demisexuality is so misunderstood, it maka me crey...


I have the number four, because incidentally, t's easier to fall for women (and therefore engage in sexual acts) than it is men for me. So I suppose, it's borderline correct.


----------



## Animal

Rinnay said:


> Demisexuality is so misunderstood, it maka me crey...


I told someone today- someone who knows me well, and knows I am demisexual, and even identifies as demisexual himself - that dating, in the conventional sense, would be pointless for me because of how I work. I told him that while I can recognize right away if I'm attracted to someone of if there's chemistry, it's irrelevant - if he makes a move too soon it's gross - and that I tend to start having the type of feelings for someone, which would make me want to be intimate - after I've known him for AT LEAST six months and he has become my best friend or at least a very close friend. 

He basically laughed at me and seemed surprised that it would take me so long. So.. yeah. 

For me, six months is an understatement.. if those six months include talking to this person pretty much every day, its possible. If it's less frequent contact, it will take me upwards of a year to have enough feelings for someone that I actually want to touch him.


I have had a crush on someone on perc pretty fast, but that's different because there is no hope of getting physically intimate very quickly. But that being said, while I have had some crushes which might have felt powerful at the time but ended up meaningless - I have never really fallen for someone that fast... so if it develops into "a relationship" very fast, I'm less likely to really grow attached to that person. I really really need time so that I feel attached BEFORE we start being physical or having any kind of 'dating pressure' and expectations.... regardless of how fast I feel attracted to someone in the sense that I want to know him better.

I am pretty much the epitome of demisexual. And I've had experiences in the past where I moved faster and I have learned that it's not for me, much like a gay person might hook up with the opposite gender for a while but ultimately realize it just doesn't do it for them.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

@_Animal_
Hmm... don't really see myself as demisexual (I don't need to _love _someone to find them attractive tbh, but I can be picky so...), but I do find the idea of dating pretty off-putting. It certainly has more appeal to bond with someone platonically first, compared to having to weed through the dating market for someone acceptable, which feels so... cynical? Depersonalized? I can't think of the best word to use, but you might have some idea what I mean anyway.


----------



## kaleidoscope

Animal said:


> For me, six months is an understatement.. if those six months include talking to this person pretty much every day, its possible. If it's less frequent contact, it will take me upwards of a year to have enough feelings for someone that I actually want to touch him.


Is it more that you do not develop sexual or physical attraction until you have enough feelings, or is it a matter of not feeling ready or comfortable with sexual intimacy until a certain amount of time has passed?

For me, unless I feel that intimacy and that emotional/mental connection, I may as well be asexual. I look at a naked man, and I feel nothing. It does nothing to me. That completely changes when it becomes someone I am falling for. 

It's slightly different for women for me, as I believe I am more easily attracted to them physically for some reason... but personality is what *really *does it for me, regardless of gender. 

Sexuality is so fucking complex and I LOVE it.


----------



## Animal

kaleidoscope said:


> For me, unless I feel that intimacy and that emotional/mental connection, I may as well be asexual. I look at a naked man, and I feel nothing. It does nothing to me. That completely changes when it becomes someone I am falling for.


It's exactly this. I have fallen for some people faster than others, but there has never, in my life, been any situation where I was even remotely sexually aroused without experiencing some kind of connection. I don't have to be "in love," but I have to feel connected to that person, like there is a bond or chemistry between us, something special, something real and deep. I will admit that in the past, there have been occasions where I felt this really quickly - but NOT ONCE was I wrong. Any time I felt it quickly, I fell hard for that person and shared something very serious with them for years. In one case the guy went back to his country after spending a week here. We didn't hook up.. since he was going back.. but we wrote emails, many which would have printed out to 20 pages, every day for 2 years. I knew I was attracted to him immediately, but I was not even thinking to "have sex" in less than a week, and neither was he. I remember he fell asleep on my knees the last night, as he barely failed to stay up the whole night with me. 

The man who arguably broke my heart the hardest in my life - we were attracted to each other from afar, watched each other for three months without talking, sitting across from each other on opposite benches outside a local coffee shop.. reading, or he would play guitar... etc. We would "pose" near each other at local bars or on the street.. people thought we were dating before we ever talked! We have the same hair, same "outfit".. it was crazy. Once we finally talked, we felt like we knew each other already and got physical really fast. We couldn't keep away from each other.. and it was beyond intense.. our first time we were at a party.. but we were just so wrapped up in each other and the whole world faded away. Then we both pulled back.. but only to start a cycle of push-pull that lasted 3 years. He told me he loved me after 2 years, and that I was his best friend before that point. But he never committed to me. He was a committed best friend, but he took other lovers very openly and honestly, and he told me ultimately that he could have had something more serious with me but he had no idea that I cared and so he closed off his heart.. and I know exactly what he meant. I was so desperate, and felt so rejected and unworthy and envious of him, that I compensated by trying to assert my independence and act like I cared less than I actually did (since I could never accept that he cared about me at all), and I ended up hurting him with my actions.

I ruined something that could have been beautiful, and caused myself tremendous heartache that I barely survived through, by jumping in too fast. So now, it's more than just needing to feel a bond (which I felt with him faster than anyone and in the end, it was also deeper than most bonds, and for what it's worth he's a 4 with a 7w6 fix so there was really deep understanding and scary similarities) ... but also.. there's an Sp element.. I need to feel more grounded in these feelings now, before I want to jump in.

So that might answer this..



> Is it more that you do not develop sexual or physical attraction until you have enough feelings, or is it a matter of not feeling ready or comfortable with sexual intimacy until a certain amount of time has passed?



Does that make sense?


----------



## HellCat

This line of conversation is interesting to me. I always thought I was demisexual because I had to know someones intellect before they touched me. Usually three months, until I met my husband and I wanted to jump him that day.

I can be attracted to female friends for their intellect and passion (Animals passion, energy, delicate romantic side she admits to having, prom's scary intellect southern belle who will stab you, boss' ferocious wit that should rule an ancient civilization and is out of place here, for example. Not romantically or sexually. more.. I want to drain you of some of your powers. Teach me how to embody that! 

Women are beautiful, works of art but I have always gone for big, hairy guys. Well correction, I would meet a guy and list 20 flaws or more absolutely exaggerating my self as to why it would be a bad idea to pursue me. I don't believe in idolizing someone. I did this with every man I met until my husband. I hated that word my whole life now I love it.


----------



## cinnabun

LeoCat said:


> This line of conversation is interesting to me. I always thought I was demisexual because I had to know someones intellect before they touched me. Usually three months, until I met my husband and I wanted to jump him that day.
> 
> I can be attracted to female friends for their intellect and passion (Animals passion, energy, delicate romantic side she admits to having, prom's scary intellect southern belle who will stab you, boss' ferocious wit that should rule an ancient civilization and is out of place here, for example. Not romantically or sexually. more.. I want to drain you of some of your powers. Teach me how to embody that!
> 
> Women are beautiful, works of art but I have always gone for big, hairy guys. Well correction, I would meet a guy and list 20 flaws or more absolutely exaggerating my self as to why it would be a bad idea to pursue me. I don't believe in idolizing someone. I did this with every man I met until my husband. I hated that word my whole life now I love it.


You sound like a sapiosexual .


----------



## HellCat

Rinnay said:


> You sound like a sapiosexual .



That could explain why any of his nerdy mad rants.. and there are many..daily

excite me beyond words.

His mother even told me when I met her "hes a bit mad.. don't be put off" I responded " I have the same mindset" I just don't share them.


----------



## cinnabun

LeoCat said:


> That could explain why any of his nerdy mad rants.. and there are many..daily
> 
> excite me beyond words.
> 
> His mother even told me when I met her "hes a bit mad.. don't be put off" I responded " I have the same mindset" I just don't share them.


Haha, same xD. I love nerdy guys, I'm totally in love with Spencer Reid from Criminal Minds. When he talks nerdy...omg <3. 

But I love it when Blue starts talking about art and music, because he becomes so passionate and sounds so knowledgable, and while I'm smiling on camera like "mhm, mhm, yes go on" I'm really just wantingnto jump through then screen and devour him <3.


----------



## HellCat

I saw a midwife. Fundal height is 22 weeks. Ultrasound tomorrow finally to make sure its still alive.

She was so sweet when she heard my history of miscarriages and doctors. Such a warmth and empathy.


----------



## knife

Rinnay said:


> Haha, same xD. I love nerdy guys, I'm totally in love with Spencer Reid from Criminal Minds. When he talks nerdy...omg <3.
> 
> But I love it when Blue starts talking about art and music, because he becomes so passionate and sounds so knowledgable, and while I'm smiling on camera like "mhm, mhm, yes go on" I'm really just wantingnto jump through then screen and devour him <3.


Hehe that sounds about right. I know when I start talking about writing @Sheik wants to jump my bones. <3

And me too, when she starts talking about sea life (I learned anchovies are bait fishes last night! ^_^) and surfing and volleyball and ...

I'm nerdy. :blushed: She's nerdy. :blushed: I love it. :blushed:


----------



## Superfluous

My aim is true.


----------



## 172354

Ok so aside from being Sx/So, I also struggle with having inferior Se (a dangerous combination).

Sex is always on my mind and I feel like it's an insatiable craving. I'm currently sexting multiple times a day for oh, I don't know, at least a solid week. And with it on my mind, in kicks the desire to be incredibly impulsive. I bought a plane ticket for _next week_ just to escape and feel the rush and sexual connection with someone else. It was hasty. Am I excited? Oh hell yeah, but my nerves and rational mind are returning saying _what the hell did you do? You couldn't have waited and planned better? Do you want to be a burden on him? You're so selfish and inconsiderate._ 

But I know this is my pattern that I'm having trouble escaping. It's this sudden feeling of complacency, and suffocating fear that I'm trapped in the mundane and I have to do something wild, crazy, and irrational to escape it. Intense sexual fixes, questionable decisions, and finding that rush are always a part of me, along with this impulsive nature. But....this is me. I'm highly sexual and random and love instant deep connections that, despite how impulsive, always provide memorable experiences that I wouldn't trade for the world. 


Does my snap decision scare me? Hell yes, I was literally shaking. 

Would I do it over again? You better believe it, I can't wait to see him. <3



If this is Sx & Se, it sure is one hell of a wild ride.


----------



## cinnabun

@Sheik that sounds very 7...damn. I was almost gonna do the same thing. A while ago I was that depressed I was looking up hotel prices in Italy and had to stop myself from impulsively buying a plane ticket.


----------



## cinnabun

I don't know why, but the ideas of tattoo's are no longer disgusting or stupid to me; instead they're sexy and a form of artistic expression. I think I'm going to get one and see how I feel. It's so weird how I was always against it, then one day I was like *Decided to have one, looks up tattoo ideas*. I probably won't get it because I'm a pussy and I *HATE* needles, but I know that if I decide on something I like that means something to me, I'm going to randomly walk into the first place I see and get it done.

I want something that represents freedom, happiness and peace. I don't want te typical bird shit, althouth that's nice, I want something that will make me stand out because I despise following the crowd.

I might get my rat's pawprints tattoo'd on me somewhere. The last of my boys, Ziggy, is really old, and I can feel him slowly dying. His aura is turning black, and he's not eating and he has trouble breathing. He's been with me for almost 3 years and I feel really upset knowing his time is coming to an end. I love him so much, he's not just a rat, he's my buddy, he's family. I don't want him to leave me, but at the same time I know that every good thing must come to an end.

Ok fuck it, I'm goin to buy an ink set after work and get a copy of his pawprints and I'll get it tattoo'd on my wrist, foot or behind my ear or something. That will really mean something to me, and it will symbolise love and family. I don't care if this sounds weird, it makes me feel good and hopeful, and it'll be a way to cope with the loss of my friend.

If he doesn't start eating soon, I'm going to need to make an appointment at the vet. I pray that he does get better, but by the sound of him, I doubt it.

I really hate how life can hust sneak attack you with painful shit like this.


----------



## HellCat

I'm sorry @Rinnay 

As someone who spends more time talking to animals and plants than I care to people, I get it.

I had to be medicated when I lost my parrot the night of our wedding.

I like to honor them by getting other animals in need when they are gone. I hope you like your tattoos. That is a beautiful choice I wish I had gotten my birds.


----------



## Animal

I am utterly sick of being criticized, neglected and misunderstood, only to be reeled back in with sob stories and wild fantasies and romantic music. It has been an intoxicating ride and an immense challenge and I have grown so much from it, but my rejection fantasies have been exhausted and my self-deprecating urges have been satiated. Your brilliance can no longer outshine your insanity. This is not sexy anymore. It's pathetic. Be real or begone.


----------



## kaleidoscope

@Rinnay

I've been really getting into body art too, although I've always just kinda known I wanted to get a tattoo. I just want something unique and that represents me, so I'm looking for something that feels right. 

I also love piercings, as long as they're subtle and classy. I had a nose piercing done just a few months ago and I adore it!


----------



## 172354

@Rinnay 
I have a 7w6 in my tritype, so that makes sense that I could appear 7ish (we're tritype twinsies, I'm 4w3-7w6-9w8).

And I'm sorry to hear about your rattie. You should definitely get a tattoo if that's what your heart desires (paw prints behind the ear would be adorable!). I was afraid of needles too, but I got my tattoo as a symbol of my loves, my struggles and how I moved on (as well as desiring art on my body). I got it on the back of my neck and it wasn't that bad at all, and I can't wait to get another.


----------



## knife

@rinnie You have a pet rat? That's really cute!

I had a friend a little while back who had a pet rat. Wonder what happened to them. That rat was super-curious and super-adorable. And to think that pet shops sell rats as snake food!

:shocked:

... Then again, rat is probably the best diet for snakes.

:tongue:


----------



## mimesis

Animal said:


> I am utterly sick of being criticized, neglected and misunderstood, only to be reeled back in with sob stories and wild fantasies and romantic music. It has been an intoxicating ride and an immense challenge and I have grown so much from it, but my rejection fantasies have been exhausted and my self-deprecating urges have been satiated. Your brilliance can no longer outshine your insanity. This is not sexy anymore. It's pathetic. Be real or begone.


*reaches out for long transatlantic hug*
And I mean long, in that I won't stop holding you until I feel you are letting it go (and I'm pretty sure you will). 
Which is when I squeeze you even tighter








Also, closer to my heart. 

For lack of words to express.


----------



## cinnabun

knife said:


> @_rin_nie You have a pet rat? That's really cute!
> 
> I had a friend a little while back who had a pet rat. Wonder what happened to them. That rat was super-curious and super-adorable. And to think that pet shops sell rats as snake food!
> 
> :shocked:
> 
> ... Then again, rat is probably the best diet for snakes.
> 
> :tongue:


:dry:


----------



## Animal

You are an expert at groveling. Count yourself lucky for that. If you weren't so good at licking my feet you'd be long gone.

I can't help but wonder what lead you to master these skills in the first place. Who taught you to heel? Who taught you to make yourself vulnerable and praise someone after being yelled at and ripped up, instead of fighting back and making dumb excuses? Some woman must have trained you. Maybe good parenting. Or maybe you are just so damn obnoxious that you had to learn this as a survival skill. Well.. either way.. I have to admit it is endearing. And it is invaluable that you handle my temper as well as you do. Most people get defensive, get angry, make excuses.. you just take a step back and cut out the crap and let me know how much I mean to you. I truly appreciate this. Sometimes I think the bullshit is worth it since we can handle each other's flaws so well. You may be an annoying bitch when you're on your man-period.. but at least the clean-up is cute to watch. Rawr.


----------



## galactic collision

It feels amazing to be focused on one thing for a long time. I forgot I needed to eat, to drink, to do anything except the thing I was doing. It also feels amazing to kind of be running the show. I have lots and lots of people depending on me to call the shots right now and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a bit of a power trip. I don't really love being in power, per se, because I always want people to have their own personal freedom... what I do love is being in charge and in control. For some reason it feels different. But maybe it's not.

Today I didn't feel _powerful_. I felt _essential_. And best of all, I felt like _I actually had my shit together_. More than most other people there. And all my friends kept telling me I looked so professional...and I felt professional. This is what it feels like to do what you love. This is why I'm here.

I had to deal with some shit today, too. Some angry people who refused to back down when I tried to turn them away. One of them manipulated me into letting her in. I knew it was happening while it happened, and the only reason I let it happen was because in that moment I didn't care if I disrupted the show that was going on to let an audience member in (because that show has caused everyone so much trouble that it deserves more disruptions than I could ever give it). One of them tried to manipulate me into letting her in, but instead of appealing to my sympathies she just stared angrily at me and talked about traffic while her kids glared at me from behind her. When I didn't back down (because she was 30 minutes late and I care about that show) she got ruder and ruder until finally she gave up and sat down facing me and gave me the stink eye until the show was over.

Some people really need to clean up their attitudes. I don't want to criticize anyone's parenting, but I do think it's incredibly inappropriate to behave that way in front of your kids. And it was definitely rubbing off on them - they were going out of their way to show me just how angry they were at me. That's really not a great way to be. That's really not a healthy way to deal with disappointment.

Also, I almost got beat up today by an angry man. 

Who am I kidding? I probably would have kicked his ass.


----------



## Superfluous

justforthespark said:


> Also, I almost got beat up today by an angry man.
> 
> Who am I kidding? I probably would have kicked his ass.


YAY, THE TURBULENT TIMES OF NEW YORK CITY. will you be in town in May??


----------



## Golden Rose

I'm often amazed at the bold emotional rawness of some of the confessions here.
They can range from mundane but personally significant thoughts to extremely intimate drops of life.

I read @Animal's heart wrenching slices of emotion and they're always so powerful, as if she was squeezing out every last bit of her feelings and yet it's evident that it's just a small part of an universe inside her. I wish I had that kind of emotional openness sometimes, as much as I can go in depth and let out a lot, there will always be a very withdrawn element that only summarizes entire flows of thoughts and emotions that cannot live long enough if taken outside of me. Which is both a good and a bad thing.

It's much easier for me to let the intensity flow privately, even with just the one I love.
Even then, if I vocalized every single mood and hidden earthquake, I'd update every 20 minutes.
As if most things become mundane and not as heartfelt when they leave my own introspection.
I think it's beautiful how this instinct manifests differently in different types.

It's not even a matter of types, each individual is their own person.
Sometimes even just two simple lines can tell an entire story, one that seeks to be truly understood.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Animal said:


> You may be an annoying bitch when you're on your man-period.. but at least the clean-up is cute to watch. Rawr.


:laughing:


----------



## HellCat

Scelerat: Honey while I appreciate you would go to war for me naked and wielding a toothpick. Sometimes its better to wait for me to develop you better weapons first.


----------



## Donovan

reading what another poster has written--creativity from "negativity":

it shows me that it's really only when i tap into my actual emotional side, do i experience that spark... i try to contact it from different angles, by not wading through my own content, and it's _almost_ like causing it to ignite--that spark starts to grow, and it starts to flicker--but it's still like viewing something you want through glass: cold, a barrier between, and just inciting enough because you can run up out of the dark and press your face to its cage, and stare at it with greed and determination and anger, saying with all but your thoughts "yes... i see you. i'll be there. just let me find another way first"... 

and then it flickers out, as if it was just asking you to break through that glass, and it lost strength and it lost hope, as you walked away... feeling that amount of disgust, with anger bordering on hatred towards oneself, because you're even willing to search for that "other avenue" to begin with, and also because as soon as you search you lose that one goddamn thing you saw flickering weakly in the dark, and you know that all you had to do was shatter that fucking glass and then you'd have it... but you can't, cause you're weak, and because you find lopsided strength in your continued attempt to remain at once both hale and broken... 

some things don't want to be touched. in fact, some things just want to be ripped from it's barren scape and wrapped and ensconced; torn apart based on a warm instinct, with the aggressor-savior not even knowing what they do but just knowing that it feels in the right direction; to be mutilated with love, and all its bits and all its pieces flung across that scape, raining down their own flickering of a sort, creating something new; screaming, crying, laughing... having zero idea where this new fauna is expanding toward, and having that spur on a want to halt and make things as they were before hand--putting it behind glass in familiar spurt of cruelty--but still retaining that openness of heart that overrides and allows your own expansion. 



in any case, i was a bar last night (what's new?). i like this place. the people aren't standoff'ish, pretentious hipsters that are somehow at once both unique, and somehow all still resembling the exact same homeless person in their "one of a kind look"--and a surly homeless man at that; very poor attitudes if you ask me, ... so, they had a little art show at this place, where local people just came and put their stuff where ever they could fit it. 

i introduced myself to one of them: a little watery, bloodshot, blue-eyed man with over-sized clothes and a very large hat. he sat and smiled to everyone; like a good-natured blonde hobbit, he just had a sweet presence. apparently they are part of a non-profit group that tries to bring awareness to the social problems in birmingham/surrounding areas. they meet up once a week to discuss their projects--both personal and societally-related--and try to figure out how they can convince people to let them hang their work in their establishment, all the while speaking about what the money is going to for that event. 

i had planned on talking him up so my friend--who went to school for an art degree in ceramics--could get in good with them and be better known for it. but, i think i might also join, as they take "any kind of artistic expression"--so, even writing. i'm not doing it because i feel anything will actually come of it in the way of a career, but because now i might actually have more of a fire under my ass to even write... i don't know why, but it is something that scares me greatly, something that makes irrationally angry lol... i've always avoided it, but maybe now i'll be in more of an atmosphere to actually capitalize on something i need to be doing, for myself.


----------



## Animal

I can't believe you were so kind to me that it moved me to tears.
I can't believe I made myself vulnerable to you... 
How did you get me to be vulnerable??

Magic tricks. :th_wink:


----------



## Animal

I feel two ways.

One: My past is a wild beast that dug its teeth into the fibers of my soul. You have conquered your challenges and emerged unscathed, true to your inner child. Simply put.. someone like me does not deserve someone like you. I should shut you out before causing either one of us more pain... and I should never look back..but it is my selfish neediness that keeps me here, desperately aching to grasp this elusive magic. Your virtue sheds light on my animalism, exposes all my scars and brings me to my knees. I don't know why you are so kind to me, why you accept me. To me, you are an enigma wrapped in a riddle.. too complicated for the stupid animal. I am too base, too hungry, too wrapped in my own feelings to understand you. Here I am, stewing over what you might feel or think, even knowing that you are probably expanding your beautiful mind, concentrating on things that matter. The thought of what my memories might look like to you.. eats me alive.. even though you have probably never given my past a second thought. I am my own worst enemy.

Two: You have always known I was Animal. You have witnessed my visceral nature and still you have not walked away. Any time I have exposed slivers of my past, you have seen the poetry, the honesty, the child within me. At every turn, you have seen beauty in me where I have seen beast. This inspires my trust, my tears, my hope, my growth, my devotion. If you were to discard me because of my distant past, despite knowing very well who I am today... how virtuous and kind would you be? Why would I want you around? If I pine for someone who rejects my core nature, I am chasing a pedestal, a fantasy. That is not love, friendship, or empathy. If I hide my scars to avoid rejection... there is no "me." My innocence and sweetness are real, but my inner child is animalistic. When I was young, I played with guns, "married" little boys, dominated the playground, climbed trees, swam in lakes, dressed up as a homeless person and wanted to be a cat. So how can I be the child without the animal? It is a fallacy... and the effort would render me shallow and fake. I used to emphasize my darkness and warn people about me. In an effort to defeat the shame I was so ashamed of, I wore my flaws as an identity and called myself shameless. When I figured this out, I was humiliated that my self-image was steeped so deeply in this false ideal of shamelessness and I strove to be more honest about my sensitivity. But is that really honest? Is that really me? Maybe shameless _is_ who I am. Maybe expressing it _is_ being true to myself. If I wear my scars on my sleeve, nobody can find them later and be disappointed. Take me or leave me exactly as I am. That is the beauty of embodying my shame. That is the beauty of owning my inner beast and calling myself *Animal.*


----------



## Animal




----------



## HellCat

baby is kicking me now.. jabbing me right in the ribs. I think it has a shovel. 

I just know I am going to end up having it at home. 

My experience at the doctor went poorly. He was a sixty yr old batshit crazy, who made it clear he hated americans and thought we all stuff ourselves all day long with fast food. Ignoring the midwifes report, he started to pretend to ignore my 22 week pregnant uterus and poke around down at the bikini line for ten seconds. Before I jumped up and told him he was mad and totally unprofessional to disregard the womans report. 

Then I cut him down professionally in front of an entirely female staff, let them know I would prefer to deliver at home than have my child in that senile hateful bastard's hands and wrote some feminists about him. Who agreed, European doctors are often awful to american women. 

My giant bear in a suit husband growled nose to nose at him and the old man was still grinning. Either he was malicious and wanted a reaction or he wants to be thrown out a window so he can retire. Either way, Scelerats way too intelligent to kill someone for being a bigot against American citizens. There are worse things than death.

My mother in law never had an ultrasound and delivered on a train once. She said childbirth is fairly simple. My grandmother in law told me in her day "women had them at home" I am taking my vitamins. I agreed to go see the midwife again at 30 weeks to see how it is progressing. Here in Europe midwives are more like nurses apparently. I really just want a normal life. I keep running into these totally mad people like the gynecologist from hell and the seven american doctors it took to find a watermelon and a tennis ball sized ovarian tumor. I don't want to run into mad people. I want a fucking little black and white photo. My mother is cracking jokes about me giving birth in a manger. Because my baby is the antichrist, according to her exhusband. (my nutty cult leader father


----------



## mimesis

Animal said:


> In an effort to defeat the shame I was so ashamed of, I wore my flaws as an identity and called myself shameless. When I figured this out, I was humiliated that my self-image was steeped so deeply in this false ideal of shamelessness and I strove to be more honest about my sensitivity. But is that really honest? Is that really me? Maybe shameless _is_ who I am. Maybe expressing it _is_ being true to myself. If I wear my scars on my sleeve, nobody can find them later and be disappointed. Take me or leave me exactly as I am. That is the beauty of embodying my shame. That is the beauty of owning my inner beast and calling myself *Animal.*


Haha yes, embrace your inner animal! 

I don't think it's the same though, and what you describe is a process. The first shamelessness is counter-shame reaction-formation. It's comparable with bravado vs courage. It can be hard to distinct them but to confront yourself like you did takes courage, as it's exactly what bravado, or false pride as reaction-formation, seeks to avoid. (even false humility, despite its self-debasement and self-absorption avoids that confrontation, or awareness). It can be an excruciatingly humiliating experience indeed, but humbling in a good way as it opens the path to self-acceptance. Now it's not so much shamelessness as it is genuine humility.



Humility said:


> Humility: A quiet and sincere confidence that comes from a realistic appraisal of your stature that recognizes you are doing well, while recognizing your shortcomings. It is an incentive to continue to learn, improve, and do more. Self esteem is aligned with authentic stature and is judged to be satisfactory and with room for improvement within a humble person. Humility reduces our need for self-justification and allows us to admit to and learn from our mistakes.


----------



## Vaka

I remembered...because of something you wrote in the enneagram mistype thread a lust for destruction I had grown in the past few years. And I realize I'm taking what you wrote completely out of context as I tend to do, I just run away with things, but it's somewhat related to the idea of rising from the ashes

I had grown in the past few years of my life this fascination with destruction. But at the core was never something inherently destructive as I never wanted to watch things burn. I only wanted to see what could be destroyed and take what couldn't and make something new and mine...just mine alone and by extension, me

It manifested at first as something philosophical, intellectual, but then it grew to this lust for destruction of my own self simply so I could rise from the ashes. In retrospect, I was so fucked up. I could bleed, and that's what I'd see and that's what I'd feel. And I remember I had to go to the hospital because I fucked up one of my organs from abusing a substance and all I saw at the time was that I put myself through that and was powerful enough to walk away. Although that was only a related facet. All of it is so emotional I think it's impossible for it to have a clean physical manifestation 

I suppose in the personal sense, I don't feel it so much anymore because I already have been destroyed and all of it was a foreshadowing as to what would come not long after. I sent a message to my friend a week ago simply saying "I will be a phoenix soon", but of course, she didn't reply because I think she's used to my weirdness by now

At this point in time, I'm putting a lot of effort into being happy, which I never really was before. In the past few years I became so lost in myself that none of this would have had a truly earthly kind of relevance because gravity takes me away from earth, not towards it. I suppose what I can take from that is that all the things that have happened within me that have brought me to the point of destruction don't have to be taken as an end, but a means to find something new, to see what can't be destroyed


----------



## galactic collision

i love how coffee makes me feel hyper-focused on whatever i'm working on but also buzzing with energy, thrumming with it, like i could run a marathon but i could also look someone in the eyes and stay completely still for two hours and i could keep finding new things to see that whole time

coffee is the best thing the world has ever done


----------



## Gorgon

Bleh deleted


----------



## Golden Rose

Is it even possible follow your main fix's disintegration lines instead?
I feel like the worst caricature of a 7 right now but I'm no 7 nor 5, sadly.

I snapped back into desperately seeking freedom, numbing myself with vodka and food to purge until I can forget about myself. But it never works and only adds layers and layers of incompetency and inadequacy.

I can never forget myself, that's the problem. I can never forget my weaknesses and my limits, the way I lost any will to even dream, research, learn because I seldom follow any kind of common sense or my own advice. I hate how weak I am, how I'll never gain proper control over my own self.

And I spend my time wondering if I'll ever be able to be true to who I am, to be properly able to translate the spasm of my heart. Wondering why is it so hard for me to express any emotion without feeling the need to run and justify it, downplay it, hide it. Because most of the time, people like me a lot more than I actually like them or I'm able to dedicate my time and efforts to them but when I deeply connect to someone, there's no way I'm not the most invested one. Like an addict seeking her daily fix.

I always feel like I'm too much, I always rebel and break under the pressure that only comes from my head.
I feel whiny, I feel trapped, I wonder why emotions are such a powerful force when they can do so little.

Whenever I hear a compliment, I can't help but deflect it.

Because I'm not strong, not intelligent, not intuitive, not a good 'people' reader; that might have been true at some point or deep inside of me but everything died. I'm just a naive hurt child who tries to escape reality and any unpleasant intrusion to her inner world, most people are vampires, I'd rather live isolated with the one I love and my closest, deepest connections. Because everything is too much and I'm not equipped to handle it, I only care about my own world.

Why would anyone waste any time envying me? My life is terrible.
I could have been so many things, I could have been real, inspired, wise.
But I'm just a depressing cunt who turns everything she touches to a rotten carcass.


----------



## Golden Rose

...And now I'm back into a numbed calm state.
I'd erase my previous rant but I feel like sometimes I need to hang out my most vulnerable thoughts to dry.


----------



## Gorgon

At the moment, I feel like I'm on shaky grounds and the balance can tip either way. There's so many things piling up on me at once, I actually don't know what to feel about that. These couple of weeks I've been experiencing a wide of range emotions and states, all very volatile and abrupt. When faced with these types of situations I tend to react in one of two ways, either aggressively deal with them head on or curl up into a ball, rarely something in between. From here on out, I don't know what's going happen. It all seems very chaotic. Both my internal and external environments are very chaotic. Unfortunately, I don't think I have reached the eye of the storm yet. My only wish is to weather the storm successfully (for a lack of a better word). In the end, I hope there's something to be had from this situation.


----------



## CaptSwan

"Time's ticking, old friend" I tell myself. I feel each day passing, waiting for my departing day and... And, with each that that passes; I see back and look at the tremendous work I've done on myself. However, that wouldn't have been possible without the help of wonderful people who was there for me at different instances; from my beloved sisters (you know who you guys are :laughing helping me figure out that I needed to heal, to many friends who, in different degress, have shown me different parts of my nature, helping me understand my nature; to a very special person who I hold close in my heart, who allowed me to feel for the first time my more savage side; in an uncensored, raw and intense way. This has brought me my freedom, the capacity to operate freely according to my nature and to feel, experience and enjoy every impulse, every thought, every sensation I ever have... To all of you, I say "Thank you". From the bottom of my heart, thank you for freeing me. 

@Thanatesque

I hope you endure and conquer the storm you face ahead of you. I've read your posts and, I can tell that you have the strength to pull through any challenge. Best of luck :happy:


----------



## Gorgon

CaptSwan said:


> "Time's ticking, old friend" I tell myself. I feel each day passing, waiting for my departing day and... And, with each that that passes; I see back and look at the tremendous work I've done on myself. However, that wouldn't have been possible without the help of wonderful people who was there for me at different instances; from my beloved sisters (you know who you guys are :laughing helping me figure out that I needed to heal, to many friends who, in different degress, have shown me different parts of my nature, helping me understand my nature; to a very special person who I hold close in my heart, who allowed me to feel for the first time my more savage side; in an uncensored, raw and intense way. This has brought me my
> freedom, the capacity to operate freely according to my nature and to feel, experience and enjoy every impulse, every thought,
> every sensation I ever have... To all of you, I say "Thank you". From the bottom of my heart, thank you for freeing me.
> 
> @Thanatesque
> 
> I hope you endure and conquer the storm you face ahead of you. I've read your posts and, I can tell that you have
> the strength to pull through any challenge. Best of luck :happy:



Thank you! :hug: It sounds like you had an amazing journey


----------



## CaptSwan

Thanatesque said:


> Thank you! It sounds like you had an amazing journey


Aww! <3 I appreciate the hug!

It's been a couple of years now since I joined PerC but, it's been a fantastic journey that's helped me understand myself a bit better and know fantastic people. I hope you get the same fortune :happy:. 

BTW, I love your profile and sig pics. They're quite interesting.


----------



## Gorgon

Repressed rage is like a cancer that metastasizes over time. When not properly dealt with, it becomes an unsurmountable monster that consumes everything in its path. It forces the soul to turn on itself causing it consume itself from the inside out. Eventually there will be nothing left, and a new target, any target, will be marked. While there may be a legitimate source of one's anger, the rage eventually permeates one's being. The philosophy of _ressentiment_ becomes the prevailing paradigm; justifying one's weakness and externalizing the blame indiscriminately. Putting yourself in a position of weakness while being internally indignate at the violations you've experienced (real or otherwise).


----------



## Animal

I'm so happy right now. I'd forgotten how utterly terrifying it is to be happy. I know it's transient.. and everything will change. I know nothing that matters ever lasts. I know there is still a long, hard road ahead, and this might still be a "moment" rather than an indication of a better future than I hoped. But wow... I am so happy I am almost in tears. And I'm scared. Being sad and angry makes so much more sense. Being appreciative, compassionate, touched, this is okay. But hope.. hope is the heart killer. I am trying so hard not to let these amazing moments mislead me and give me hope. I cannot trust in hope as it is the worst betrayer I have ever known. I just... need to be thankful, and grateful, and gracious, and compassionate.... and leave it at that.. but my stupid heart won't shut up about all the things that could happen if only...


----------



## d e c a d e n t

@Animal
Hope is pretty dumb, indeed.^^;


----------



## Gorgon

@Animal It's best to stay in the present. As far as we know, the future doesn't exist yet. Regardless of what happens, you have the strength to go through it. You seem like a tough lady ^_^. Anyways, I wish you more happiness in the future :happy:


----------



## cinnabun

Ziggy was out to sleep earlier tonight.

I cried in the vet clinic, only a little though. I didn't want to totally lose control, because that's weak and shameful. I kept the majority of it back, because I can't let people see the intensity of my sadness. I knew it was time, he was just so ill. He had lost a good chunk of fur, he couldn't breathe, and he couldn't walk. I knew going there that there was no other alternative other than putting him to sleep. Furthermore, upon talking to the vet, my suspicion he had a brain tumour was confirmed.

I feel numb at the moment. I've over indulged in food, something I always turn to if I'm sad, and I was desperately hoping to distract myself with my mafia game, but that shit is slow as a week in the jail, so that failed miserably. I'm just sitting here, feeling numb and not knowing what to do, while my brain is trying hard to think of ways to distract myself so I don't remember how much pain he was in, how it was my fault he got to this stage, because I don't want to be reminded of it.

I know it was though, I should have taken him to the vet as soon as I noticed he was going off his food, but I latched onto false hope when I saw a tiny improvement with his eating. He was old as hell, and deteriorating quickly. Realistically, how was he going to get better? I should have done it sooner so he didn't suffer as much as he did tonight. He was fitting when I came home from work, and it was just horrible to see. Witnessing someone, or something, you love so dearly in so much distress is awful.

I feel a lot of things, and a lot of thoughts are running through my mind. I'm upset, angry, but numb and weirdly peaceful at the same time...because he's not in pain anymore, and I know it was the best thing to do.

Idk what's wrong with me, but I know for a fact it's going to hit me later, and I'm going to be sobbing and blaming myself, but for now I'm going to fall back into my own little world and stay there for as long as reality will allow me.


----------



## Golden Rose

@RinnayDelRey

I'm genuinely sorry, I can tell you're in a lot of pain and how much you love him.

Sometimes when reality slaps you hard, mentally escaping and holding onto memories is the best course of action. You're incredibly strong, you can handle this although it's ok to have less strong moments. 

It means being human.


----------



## Superfluous

Absolute pettiness, I pity you.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

I was thinking earlier of how I can really like the word "raw"

Figured that random bit of trivia was fitting for this thread


----------



## Chesire Tower

I've been through the worst of it and now, I'm almost kind of numb, but that numbness is much preferable to days without hardly eating a thing, lack of sleep, and the worst of the worst: an excruciating 3 day migraine and red inflamed, itchy swollen eyelids that throbbed like a bitch, everytime, I opened my eyes.

There's a part of me who's still in disbelief that someone I poured my heart and soul out to and trusted as much as I did, could even in my wildest nightmares, do such a thing to me (like *suddenly* and *irrevocably* cut me off and utterly discard me like a used tissue). You think that someone you put your faith in assigns some value to you as a human being and then you find out to your abject horror, that your connection to that person has been a complete lie. I still feel wounded, betrayed and enraged but, I'll be damned if allow any fake two-faced individual destroy my self-esteem. Been there, done that and thanks to some really awesome people, I no longer have to sell my soul - nor should I - for the sake of any friendship/relationship. It's very sobering, yes but the upside is that I now know who my true friends are.


----------



## Gorgon

As a youngster, I was always interested in world building and constructing narratives. As a kid, I would rewrite popular stories in my head, adding or subtracting characters, changing relationship dynamics, add new themes and elements. If Minecraft was around when I was kid, I would've jumped on that. Life is not that much different. As I've gotten older, I've become more cognizant of the fact that there isn't one singular narrative that exists, while sometimes it appears that way. Moreover, narratives are never static. We can add or subtract characters, change the themes, etc. Even looking at a narrative from a different angle can change its whole structure and dynamic.

There's this impulse to build walls and then to tear them down once we start to outgrow them. The walls serve as defense and protection both guarding the interior from the outside and keeping what's inside contained. While life within the walls at first seems comfortable and safe, they soon serve as instruments of our imprisonment. They makes us complacent, rigid, and fearful of what's beyond the walls. Slowly tearing down the walls might be the best option overall, but sometimes blowing up the entire city is the best route, and it is this type of dismantling that I'm most drawn to. I've always been drawn to extremes, while I may not always like them, they do have a way of quickly tearing down our foundations and shake us to our cores. It's in those extremes in which I am able to fully test and uncover my strengths and weaknesses. That's not to say that I don't fear this sort of throttle of the self. I'm a creature of habit and comfort. I like certainty and security. I like having a path laid out in front of me. But of course, life is never this neat. Uncertainty and chaos are givens. Like I mentioned earlier, our interpretations of narratives gives them their unique hue. Uncertainty, in many ways, is a blank page, an open invitation for us to construct the narratives we want. It's an opportunity to start anew. The good thing about it is that this opportunity never ceases to exist (except when we die).

I want to continue to write, revision, destroy, create, and transform.


----------



## Vaka

Thanatesque said:


> As a youngster, I was always interested in world building and constructing narratives. As a kid, I would rewrite popular stories in my head, adding or subtracting characters, changing relationship dynamics, add new themes and elements. If Minecraft was around when I was kid, I would've jumped on that. Life is not that much different. As I've gotten older, I've become more cognizant of the fact that there isn't one singular narrative that exists, while sometimes it appears that way. Moreover, narratives are never static. We can add or subtract characters, change the themes, etc. Even looking at a narrative from a different angle can change its whole structure and dynamic.
> 
> There's this impulse to build walls and then to tear them down once we start to outgrow them. The walls serve as defense and protection both guarding the interior from the outside and keeping what's inside contained. While life within the walls at first seems comfortable and safe, they soon serve as instruments of our imprisonment. They makes us complacent, rigid, and fearful of what's beyond the walls. Slowly tearing down the walls might be the best option overall, but sometimes blowing up the entire city is the best route, and it is this type of dismantling that I'm most drawn to. I've always been drawn to extremes, while I may not always like them, they do have a way of quickly tearing down our foundations and shake us to our cores. It's in those extremes in which I am able to fully test and uncover my strengths and weaknesses. That's not to say that I don't fear this sort of throttle of the self. I'm a creature of habit and comfort. I like certainty and security. I like having a path laid out in front of me. But of course, life is never this neat. Uncertainty and chaos are givens. Like I mentioned earlier, our interpretations of narratives gives them their unique hue. Uncertainty, in many ways, is a blank page, an open invitation for us to construct the narratives we want. It's an opportunity to start anew. The good thing about it is that this opportunity never ceases to exist (except when we die).
> 
> I want to continue to write, revision, destroy, create, and transform.


In fact, I've come to appreciate chaos within myself and in life. Stagnation to me is destructive purely because it's not creative. The dark shit in life forces you to think about yourself and about life, its core, your core, and so I agree with you. It's an opportunity if you let it be one because some things can't be destroyed no matter what happens. And like you said, chaos and uncertainty are nothing you can hide from. You never know where something's gonna take you, you can pretty much guarantee what you expect to happen won't happen. And you can let it be purely destructive, or you can rise from it and learn to love it. Chaos in the self can lead to something more just like chaos in the external leads to opportunities for investigation, and transformation

I like that

If things are always the same or as expected, you can zone out, become an unthinking human being, perhaps even unfeeling, therefore unresponsive


----------



## Eclipsed

I feel disgusted. All of my suspicions about you have been confirmed and I don't think I can stand to look you in the eye anymore. Even though I knew it all along, I still feel repulsed by your behavior.

No, I'm not angry at you because I'm jealous, and I'm not sad because I miss you. I'm _disappointed_ because I wanted you to prove me wrong, and you... didn't. I wish I didn't understand the world, and you, so well.

But really, how can you live, bouncing from girl to girl and giving them your everything in order to make yourself better? How can you never question why you do what you do?

I do not our regret our relationship in the slightest, and I also do not regret leaving you. But I do regret one thing: not telling you that instead of advising _me_ to take the feelings of other people more seriously, to stop trying to manipulate the feelings of others for your own benefit. Your false shows of selflessness, rooted in insecurity and desperation... do not call them acts of love. It's disrespectful. And don't think for one fucking moment that what you're doing doesn't have the potential to be destructive to both you and the people around you. You will never love anyone until you love yourself, and I pity the girl who actually ends up loving you and realizes where your "love" for her really comes from. Not that she will, though, because you play the part perfectly.

I feel deeply sorry for you because I don't think you'll ever step back long enough to understand why you need to be needed so desperately- why you completely fall apart when you don't have anyone to "rescue". The funny thing about that is that you can't save anyone because you're unstable. You have no foundation or self-esteem, and that makes you completely unreliable.

My only wish is for people like you to stop distorting my perception of the world with their fucking stupid beliefs and assumptions about what things _should_ be like. The world does not operate on _shoulds_. I can't help but absorb every perspective that I come into contact with, and it fucking pisses me off. I am reticent because I'm smart, not because I don't value the feelings of others. In fact, it is_ because_ I value their feelings that I never sugarcoat my words or say things I don't mean. I am honest and respectful of the desires of others because I see other people as capable, independent individuals, not broken things that I can fix to make myself feel better.

Who you're with makes no difference to you, and I see that now. You never saw me or tried to see me because you didn't care who I was. I also see that I am not the bad person here. I am not responsible for taking care of your feelings or fixing your insecurities, and I never was. _*I am not responsible.* _I'm tired of thinking that I am. I'm tired of seeing myself as the villain in this story.

Yeah, that means you can't hide from me behind your "good intentions" anymore, you fucking coward. The world is not so simple that if you act like you mean well, it can automatically make you a good person. I don't hate you at all, but I assure you that I won't be there to witness your self-destruction. But I guess you've made it clear that you want nothing to do with me, so it doesn't matter either way.

*TL;DR Unhealthy 2-fixers, you piss me off.*


----------



## ShadowsRunner

I feel like I'll always be poor trailer-trash...(inside)

In some way or another. I'll never have the laurels, or airs, or the sophistication.


----------



## HellCat

I meditate all day long trying to gain peace and all I see is me smashing your big nose and homely face with a brick until there is an improvement. You fucking whore. 

You aren't getting my house under false pretenses to my brother. My kooky exhusband is, I don't like being lied to and I am going to expose your ass at any cost.


----------



## Superfluous

It was my dads third death anniversary on the second, and since.. I have this lingering feeling... It's like I've been reminded of getting the news over and over again.. And I have rationalized the pain, it's a trigger yknow? But I no longer have this deep anxiety that I'm going to Mess up my life because I have no parents to guide me, and I can wake up in the morning and I feel normal.. So I'm doing good so far.. But I think my body knows stress when it sees it, around this time it seems to mock symptoms of pain from my illness and it actually impresses me. The subconscious feeling something is off before you know what is, that body reacts though you feel relatively okay. The power of the human mind... just blows mine xD


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 172354

I'm incredibly selfish lately, thinking nothing but about myself. Giving in to the loneliness. I want to be held, to feel the warmth of another envelop me whole. To feel the gentleness of a kiss and the tickling of fingers across my body. To feel special, to feel wanted, to feel needed. Cuddled, caressed, cared for, complete. Why can't I curb this longing? Why must I feel so insatiable? I don't need this feeling, I crave it, yearn for it. This desire burns, like a fire I can't put out. Combustication awaits.

_Pardon me while I burst into flames. 
I've had enough of the world, and it's people's mindless games 
Pardon me while I burn, and rise above the flame 
Pardon me, pardon me. I'll never be the same. _


----------



## Golden Rose

Had a deep, personal conversation with @LeoCat. It left a mark.

Most people cannot read me, they cannot genuinely move past my walls.
They think they do but they cannot see the layers of untold stories and unexpressed emotions and thoughts. Some genuinely do, naturally, spontaneously. It stirs my insides, it spins my reality.
There's so much I still don't understand about myself, so much I don't know about the world.

I don't really ask for much, I'd be happy in an isolated bubble with the ones I love. 
The passions and compulsions worth living for. Even just on my own if I had enough to go by.
Of course, I'd never want to sever my bond with him nor I ever will if possible. I know it'll never happen.

But I really wish I could find a way to genuinely find my own reality rather than live between perpetual detachment, perpetual avoidance and self-healing/self-destructive cycles. Instead of seeking that perfect understanding, of vacuuming notions while failing to be wise. 

I want to be myself and to live out my own fulfillment. But do I really want the storm to stop?


----------



## cinnabun

I'm just surrounded by fucking idiots.

Literally.

All of these morons are making me lose IQ points rapidly. What even is the point in you? We had one chance and you fuck it up by either not contributing or because you voted for someone who's clearly a dick.

I'm just so done with the bullshit. Ugh. I'm moving away to Antarctica and starting my own revolution.

Peace out.

(This was about the general election, not about anyone in particular, just FYI).


----------



## knife

I've never been a morning person...

Chipper morning people annoy me. I prefer to sleep in till nine, ten, eleven AM. By the time I get going it's usually early afternoon. Only when I'm doing something like going to the Art Museum where you basically have to be there from opening to close to even come close to seeing the whole thing in a day will I put in the effort to be up early.

I have no energy in the morning, and if I don't have any energy you may as well not exist, for as much as I care.

Except when I get horny in the morning. Which happens often. Is that part of the male cycle? I recall hearing somewhere that testosterone levels peak at 4 AM. It's like, when I wake up in the morning, I only have energy to bang and nothing else.

I miss you by my side, though. A mere taste of it and I can't curb the longing. I feel down until you're up. I feel as if you pick me up. And you're three hours ahead of me. Oh why can't you be a morning person? And yet the fact that you're a night owl is sexy when we're together, when we stay up till 3 AM or later. I try to socialize to keep my mind off you ... but the drugs don't work. Not until you're there.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Superfluous said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was my dads third death anniversary on the second, and since.. I have this lingering feeling... It's like I've been reminded of getting the news over and over again.. And I have rationalized the pain, it's a trigger yknow? But I no longer have this deep anxiety that I'm going to Mess up my life because I have no parents to guide me, and I can wake up in the morning and I feel normal.. So I'm doing good so far.. But I think my body knows stress when it sees it, around this time it seems to mock symptoms of pain from my illness and it actually impresses me. The subconscious feeling something is off before you know what is, that body reacts though you feel relatively okay. The power of the human mind... just blows mine xD
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm so sorry that you're dealing with that. I'm an orphan too but at least I was in my 30s when I lost both of them. I can't even imagine how hard it must be for you.


----------



## Animal

I have nothing to wage anymore except my pride - and I plan to hang on to that. I fold. You win. Case closed.. I am no match for this, and you clearly have better options. No matter how hard I try to minimize our bond in the midst of my desperate fury, I cannot stop remembering the moments we shared... the vulnerability, the honesty, the laughter. You have inspired and challenged me in so many ways.. and shared so much with me.. I cannot manage to convince myself this was fabricated ideation. But still, it is time to give up. Real as our bond may be, your future is not mine to claim. My innate qualities do not inspire you and my dreams do not light you up. Hers do. There are men in the world who would find me more alluring than her, as is the case with anyone. We all have qualities that make us who we are, and certain people will be inspired by those qualities, and others will find them mundane. Why waste our lives scrambling for the approval of those who cannot see our magic? Why indulge fantasies about anyone whose eyes cannot perceive our unique glow and thus, interprets us as disposable?

I will not be an emotional crutch for you to lean on while you build yourself up to win the affection of another woman. I regret nothing, but moving forward, those days are over. I cannot claim my heart has moved on or the rage has quelled. I cannot pretend my entire being does not shake like a volcano bubbling to burst every time I think about why she is so much better for you. But what would be even worse would be to waste another minute of my life hoping that I might, one day, matter to you. Hoping that when you overcome certain obstacles, I am a beacon on the other side. Nope.. I was just there to get you through those obstacles. And that is fine.. you did the same for me, so I cannot regret it. I don't know where I would be without you. I don't know how I will untangle you from my center. I want to burn everything down, but there is nothing left to burn aside from my own heart, and without my heart, there is no point surviving. I am strapped, helpless, insufferably angry.. but I still refuse to waste another minute on false hope. Now that I have seen the truth, I can no longer indulge the beautiful lie.

My passionate pride is the only asset I have that brings you to your knees. May it continue to guide me through this loss. I withdrew to spare you from my wrath, but for now, I don't need to hide anymore. My decision is made and there is no going back, even if I am emotionally chasing my tail. The only thing more powerful than my emotions is my will. Thus far, it has proven to be indomitable.


----------



## star tripper

Did I just...

...I just read 116 pages of a thread.


----------



## hal0hal0

I'm done with this forum. It causes me nothing but anxiety. Some good times were had, but it makes me depressed and nobody likes me, it seems. I am nothing but a fraud. I am too superficial. It's never enough, so I'm done. It's never enough. I always have the last word and I HATE having the last word. There must be something wrong with me.

I'm paranoid. My friends hate me, I guess, therefore I have no friends. I don't deserve friends or these "friends" on this forum. Was it an illusion? I'm starting to think so. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. Burn all bridges, burn them and never look back.

I could just suck at reading between the lines (paranoid), but it's done. I'm out. Sorry. I can't read your fucking mind, so when you ignore me, I assume it's hate. Simple, dumb me.

The happier I am supposed to be, the sadder I become. Therefore, I'm getting out. I hate being ignored. I hate it, I hate it, I _*hate *_it.


----------



## Animal

hal0hal0 said:


> I'm done with this forum. It causes me nothing but anxiety. Some good times were had, but it makes me depressed and nobody likes me, it seems. I am nothing but a fraud. I am too superficial. It's never enough, so I'm done. It's never enough. I always have the last word and I HATE having the last word. There must be something wrong with me.
> 
> I'm paranoid. My friends hate me, I guess, therefore I have no friends. I don't deserve friends or these "friends" on this forum. Was it an illusion? I'm starting to think so. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. Burn all bridges, burn them and never look back.
> 
> The happier I am supposed to be, the sadder I become. Therefore, I'm getting out. I hate being ignored. I hate it, I hate it, I _*hate *_it.


:th_sad:


----------



## Animal

star tripper said:


> Did I just...
> 
> ...I just read 116 pages of a thread.


:th_woot:


----------



## HellCat

.


----------



## Chesire Tower

I don't really think I care anymore about anything and least of all, friendships and/or relationships. They're just too damned hard and I lack the patience. I just wasn't made for either one and for mine and everyone else's concern; I should just go and be a hermit because I just have to face facts that I can't ever win. People always have unrealistic expectations of me that I can never live up and mot importantly of all; they either really don't want to down deep really know who I am or can't handle the real me and I'm not interested and couldn't be bother with fakeness. I honestly don't know how some people can deal with that, That's why I've never had any interests in having acquaintances; I've either wanted real friends or nothing at all but it seems that have better chances winning the lottery at this point. I just give up. >_<


ETA: disregard the above, @RinnayDelRey made me see things a lot more clearly. Sometimes, all you really need is for someone else to tell you that there isn't anything wrong with you. I just need to have more faith in myself.


----------



## Arcypher

Sometimes I'm crushed by my sadness, fueled by the desire of wanting more, but even when I try, the results I aim for end up never manifesting. Even primarily as a thinker, I'm still a human, and emotions will catch up to me sooner or later. However, I often have to push them aside to make sure I don't end up fighting a tearing beast that can potentially consume me and keep pressing on. I know there will be successes, failures, short-comings, etc. I know what I want will not always be achieved, but I keep anyone who understands me close. I know they will help me in the long run, and I'll make sure when they need assistance, I'll be there.


----------



## Donovan

hal0hal0 said:


> I'm done with this forum. It causes me nothing but anxiety. Some good times were had, but it makes me depressed and nobody likes me, it seems. I am nothing but a fraud. I am too superficial. It's never enough, so I'm done. It's never enough. I always have the last word and I HATE having the last word. There must be something wrong with me.
> 
> I'm paranoid. My friends hate me, I guess, therefore I have no friends. I don't deserve friends or these "friends" on this forum. Was it an illusion? I'm starting to think so. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. Burn all bridges, burn them and never look back.
> 
> I could just suck at reading between the lines (paranoid), but it's done. I'm out. Sorry. I can't read your fucking mind, so when you ignore me, I assume it's hate. Simple, dumb me.
> 
> The happier I am supposed to be, the sadder I become. Therefore, I'm getting out. I hate being ignored. I hate it, I hate it, I _*hate *_it.


self-defeatist horseshit. 


i don't really know you (or anyone on this site for that matter), but i actually like your posts quite a lot. you have an interesting mind when it isn't trying to kick it's own ass.

cheer up, and just take solace that it's all in your head.


----------



## Scelerat

@LeoCat to me this morning "How are you like Felix Unger AND Oscar Madison?"


----------



## CaptSwan

For the past 3 days I've sat in front of this screen, looking at this writing box; trying to express what I want to say, but I haven't found the words. There's been a torrent of thoughts and feelings, crashing and rocking everything inside me like Poseidon himself moving the oceans so Odysseus fails to reach Ithaca. It's a confusing time for me... many realizations that've shown me the true nature of some people. Feelings I have for other people bubbling. Feeling the flow of time moving me ahead, like a speeding bullet into my new life, my new future.

Sometimes, it feels like nothing in the matters of the heart is understandable to me. And, when my mind and soul starts navigating the dark corners of anger, despair and bitterness; she's there by my side, guiding me and sitting there with me; like Arwen leading Aragorn in his darkest moments... I know we're not together romantically; but, she's special to me. The only woman who's stayed... she's "the woman". I can't help it, she's made such an impression in my life that, the thought of her not being there in my life anymore makes me sad. And hurt. For someone who's easily burned more bridges than the Allies on WWII; she's a bridge I'd never dare to burn.


----------



## HellCat

Scelerat said:


> @_LeoCat_ to me this morning "How are you like Felix Unger AND Oscar Madison?"



Felix- Food has to be varied and often gourmet, luxuries have to be just "so" He makes an amazing martini, I took a sip and then was so sad I was too pregnant to drink six of them. Manners have to be spot on "he eats bacon with a knife and fork."

Oscar- Cluttered, did not notice it. Now makes a huge effort not to be. 


It is nice that the biggest stress in our lives is how to one up each other for fun or battery and cat burglary. Our cat steals chips, my food, his treatboxes and cracks them open while we sleep, or sits on Sceles head all night.


----------



## Superfluous

I feel so happy, I feel so at home... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HellCat

I am all for unexpected, eccentric chemistry but I think if you have to lie to get someone to bed you. Especially if they are half your age. 










Its just disgusting and shows your true maturity level. 

Ewwwww


----------



## DAPHNE XO

I'm getting REAL TIRED of people acting so petty.
OMG.

What the hell is up with all the insecure people desperately seeking validation by misleading and lying to others?
And why do I always attract them like moth to a flame? :laughing:


----------



## Chesire Tower

I've had a rough few weeks but I'm starting to finally see a incandescent light at the end of the tunnel; thanks to my good luck charm - it rarely leads me astray - except when I sometimes fail to heed it's wise and sound advice . . .


* *




but I swear, I'm really working on it. ^_^


----------



## Animal

I am truly lucky to have so much love in my life. I don't deserve it right now.

"Love me when I least deserve it, because that is when I need it most..." ... or so they say.

Yet, I cannot abide by this. When I behave the way I do, I don't deserve to be loved. Yet to be any other way, would be fake. I tried to spare you. I tried to hide. But the moment I reveal a sliver of an entrance, you peek into my soul. You explore the labyrinth boldly and curiously and light up every dark corner. That sunlight reveals every tangled cobweb, every hidden wretched hellish creature that lingers from my past. Your beauty chases them away and leaves me clean and pure. Why do you do it? Don't you have beautiful landscapes to admire? Bright worlds to explore? Why me?

I thought all those times when you earned my forgiveness, you did it because you needed me, because you had no one else. Now I know you have better options.. and I wanted to burst like a volcano and burn everything, everything down to my heart... to release you from any guilt, any responsibility. You deserve so much more than I can give. Yet you crawled down into that hole in the mountain and calmed the lava... and saved everything. _You saved everything_. Why??

As painful and dreadful and confusing as it was, it was easier to be angry, to wall off. Now I am yearning, pining, hopeful. Hope is the cruelest betrayer.. why do you keep thrusting it at me? The harder I resist the deeper you infuse me with it. Why do you insist on stirring my soul? _I am not strong enough. _ Everything was so much better between us when I accepted each moment for what it was and stopped trying. I tried so hard to let go of the dream, to stop pushing myself to a confession or a plan... but I was not ready to accept.. her. If she has your heart, I have to burn everything down. But you... you won't let me burn it down, and you make me wonder if her importance was all in my imagination. If she mattered to you, would you still reach so deep into the darkness to infuse me with this poisonous and sacred hope? Why would anyone do that? 

I don't want to need anyone. I can't. My will needs to be the most powerful force in my life and I can't let anyone have more influence over me than that. Ever.

But you are so brilliant, so honest, so pure. That light is blinding and yet I cannot look away. I used to see so many lights in the distance, but yours is so bright that when I look at the future, you are all I can see. I scope other thoughts, other possibilities... and the sun itself dulls in comparison. My friends told me I was the sun and you were Icarus. I knew ... I knew it was the other way around. I am so sorry. My friends see my strength, but you have seen my desperation, raw and helpless. Yet you are still here. I can't possibly understand why, yet it isn't the first time you have moved me to awe. I am amazed that you have been so strong for me, but it is a burden you don't deserve to bear. I am not made for vulnerability. I need to be stronger.


----------



## cinnabun

I just watched someone attempt to eat 120 chicken nuggets, and it was like porn or something, god damn.

Don't bother judying me, I'm already judging myself. Wtf am I doing with my life!?

I'm so fucking hungry even though I just ate, and now I'm raiding the fridge again. WHY AM I SO GREEDY AND NEED TO OVER-INDULGE?????

Honestly, idk how I'm not the size of a house. I have no self-control. I lack discipline. I go through periods where I'm so strict and work-out and super motivated, but my bad habits creep up, hard and fast. I hate it.

I want everything and I want it now. I want all the chicken nuggets, and I want to sleep for a week, and I want to be a slug with my boyfriend and not do anything because I'll be too fat to bother.

Can reality just fuck off for a week or something?


#cry


----------



## HellCat

RinnayDelRey said:


> I
> I'm so fucking hungry even though I just ate, and now I'm raiding the fridge again. WHY AM I SO GREEDY AND NEED TO OVER-INDULGE?????
> 
> Honestly, idk how I'm not the size of a house. I have no self-control. I lack discipline. I go through periods where I'm so strict and work-out and super motivated, but my bad habits creep up, hard and fast. I hate it.
> 
> I want everything and I want it now. I want all the chicken nuggets, and I want to sleep for a week, and I want to be a slug with my boyfriend and not do anything because I'll be too fat to bother.
> 
> Can reality just fuck off for a week or something?
> 
> 
> #cry



Have you ever had your thyroid checked? sometimes being very slender but eating a lot and not gaining can be a sign of hyperthyroid.


----------



## drmiller100

Animal said:


> I am truly lucky to have so much love in my life. I don't deserve it right now.
> 
> .


Hugs.............


----------



## drmiller100

I've been talking with a friend who is CLEARLY sx. i'm interested in learning more about her to the point it is pretty consuming. Will it last? Will we burn out? Will we piss each other off? 

she lives a long ways away. Been a long time since I was interested in someone a long distance away. Already bought tickets to fly out to meet her in person this summer.

Crazy. Fun.


----------



## Vaka

I used to have so little energy I could barely stand to go on a simple errand as it was too taxing. I sunk more and more into myself and I felt like I couldn't get out because everything besides my world was overwhelming. My time and energy were too precious to me. While I'm still largely the same way, I've a lot more ability to reach outside of myself and I don't know how I've gained that, but I'm glad I did


----------



## Gorgon

Here's an except from one of my journal entries,

"There's this impulse to commit violence onto the environment whether that be physical, psychological, or metaphysical. There's this need to tear down sacred structures and to unmask facades. I want to come into contact with other people's underbellies. Uncover their wounds and boils and let them surface whether they want to or not. Smash their walls and destroy their beloved foundations. To delve into the depths of darkness and decay. To travel down the rabbit hole and never come back. It's like Artaud's Theatre of Cruelty: it's ontological terrorism at its most violent."

Depression tends to color one's outlook towards the pessimistic. I've become more reactive towards any hints of disingenuousness and bullshit in general. I've heard depression makes you see things more realistically. That may or may not be true. However, there have been times where I've been able to see through others' bullshit quite clearly. Now when it comes to my bullshit....I can see through it, detect its logical inconsistencies, and point out its at times lack of correspondence to reality. But many times, it's easier to cling to one's delusions and excuses.


----------



## CaptSwan

It's been a good couple of days. Plenty of good change around me, people reaching a good point in their lives; both in my family and friends... Seeing things unfold in my home in this past couple of days has shown me that; my mission is over. They'll be OK. 
It's time to go. No matter what, there's nothing more I can do. I suppose I'm bound to accept the fact that I'm on my own now. I might feel happy; but, it makes me raise the question "What now?". Now that my assignment is over, I'm free to do anything I want. A lonely journey awaits me... I've got nothing to hold me anywhere; no friends, no love, no material possesions. A traveler is what I was, what I am and what I'll always be; the journey begins but, I greet it with a burning heart, a smile on my face and, with sadness in my spirit. Paradoxical... A smile on my face and sadness in my spirit; the past I leave behind and the future that awaits for me. The sentimental in me mourns for the past that's gone, while it celebrates and joyfully awaits the future to come. I guess, all I can do is close up my coat, put on my hat, grab my walking stick and set my foot ahead of the other; one step at a time.


----------



## Animal

I wonder what it would take to push him away forever. If I could figure it out, I wonder if I would have the courage to do it. I certainly don't have the strength to walk away. If he grows tired of me, this hope will stop haunting me. Then this desperation will fade. My future will be mine again.


----------



## cinnabun

LeoCat said:


> Have you ever had your thyroid checked? sometimes being very slender but eating a lot and not gaining can be a sign of hyperthyroid.



Blue mentioned this to me too, but it was for something else, I can't remember.

Anyway, I don't think I have this problem. I mean, I'm not losing weight or anything, my weight is maintained. I've always had a fast motablism. I probably am putting on weight but I just can't notice it XD.


----------



## Chesire Tower

I've always had a love/hate relationship with my feelings, because as lone as I can remember; I've never been allowed to have any = I mean sure, joy, happiness were always acceptable but anger, fear and most of all sadness, were verboten. I remember sitting in my therapist's office years ago when he affectionately told me how he had comforted his little daughter after she awoke screaming from a nightmare and I had burst into tears since whenever I had had a nightmare my mother would just yell at me to "shut up" and not disturb my father. 

She told me that she couldn't love me since her love was conditional and deserved to have a "husband who would beat [me]". She also chastised my father for praising my artwork (when I was 5) because, God forbid, I might get the delusional idea that I might possibly have any talent. She would also frequently tell me that I was a failure at life and that I would never amount to anything.


----------



## Chesire Tower

*WARNING: graphic and disturbing historical imagery; may trigger some. Facts may or may not have been altered in the interests of privacy of those living or dead*


* *




My grandparents were Holocuaust survivors; She was only 8 years old when she was sent to Auschhwitz - the death camp. She would continually be accosted with the spectacle of observing random innocent people being thrown int the gas chambrs to die. She could hear their screams of agony - always fearfully wondering if she or her two sisters or her mother. Families in the concentration camps were separated by gender; might be next. Her father, my great-grandfather eventually gave up all hope of ever being reunited with the rest of his family and surrendered to the Nazis and he was promptly thrown into the gas chamber with the rest of the corpses.

My grandfather faired a bit better. He was in the labour camps, where people were still existing under wretched and inhumane conditions but only the old and sick were put to death- not the vibrant and healthy like in the death camps. I think that Anne Frank must have been sent to either Auschwitz or the other death camp. Most people don't really know too much about the labour camps but if you've ever read any Dostoyevsky - where he would describe his experiences in the prison camps in Siberia, you would have a pretty accurate idea of what went down there.

Both of them lost numerous friends, relatives and material possessions and many didn't make it 

My parents (aged 40 and 50 when I was born) would tell me at age 5 that unlike my grandparents, I would have never survived such an ordeal because I was both emotionally fragile and ungrateful for what I had.


----------



## drmiller100

Chesire Tower said:


> * I would have never survived such an ordeal because I was both emotionally fragile and ungrateful for what I had.[/SPOILER]
> 
> Thank you for your interesting story. I do appreciate it.
> 
> The trigger for me was the shaming your parents did. I don't like that shit.
> 
> Another word for what you are might be innocent. That is worth preserving. Protecting. Cherishing.
> 
> You don't have to live under your parent's shaming, and I can tell by writing, you are exposing the poison to the light of day where it cannot survive.
> 
> Keep going. You are on teh right path, but it is hard work.


----------



## Chesire Tower

drmiller100 said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chesire Tower said:
> 
> 
> 
> * I would have never survived such an ordeal because I was both emotionally fragile and ungrateful for what I had.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for your interesting story. I do appreciate it.
> 
> The trigger for me was the shaming your parents did. I don't like that shit.
> 
> Another word for what you are might be innocent. That is worth preserving. Protecting. Cherishing.
> 
> You don't have to live under your parent's shaming, and I can tell by writing, you are exposing the poison to the light of day where it cannot survive.
> 
> Keep going. You are on teh right path, but it is hard work.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your kind post. It was mostly my mom who did this. 
* *




If you've ever read the book, I think it's called, "Children of the Holocaust" which tells the stories of not only the children of the survivors but the children of the children of the survivors; an awful lot of abuse took place as a result of it. I've also met some of these people and from what I was told; I got off very easy. Most of them had things far worse then me.

Some of them were regularly beaten with whips and belts and others were locked for days in closets without food or water I can't judge those people for what they went through. I would make anyone crazy, I would think. I can't even imagine what it must have been like. To this day, you can't pay me to see a movie like _Schindlers' List _which was a whitewash of what really happened but still; I'm terrified of having a panic attack in the theater.




The Narcissistic parent and romantic relationships


It's really difficult especially when people who think they know me, who really have no idea what my life's been like; pass hurtful and spurious judgement upon me but I know that for anyone who hasn't walked in my shoes, it can be very difficult to understand.


----------



## Golden Rose

There won't be any more time wasting.
Errors are unavoidable but knowing the specifics of how it happened helps me fix them.

This past year has been a nightmare, I can see it fading now.
Back to the initial track with a different vision for the future and a lot of lessons learned.

I'm growing into myself and seeing the truth which is good. 
No more points to prove, no more existential crises nor destructive chains if avoidable.

Some things might be beyond my grasp but my life still marches on.
Not to say that my love, practical advice and support are going to vanquish, that's all I can give him.
Change is only scary if you allow it to be, it often teaches valuable insights and it solidifies your path.

As for background noise, I'll shrug it off. Her emotional appeals don't work on me.
Nothing worse than a person who decides to be willingly deaf and blind to their own faults.


----------



## drmiller100

Chesire Tower said:


> T
> It's really difficult especially when people who think they know me, who really have no idea what my life's been like; pass hurtful and spurious judgement upon me but I know that for anyone who hasn't walked in my shoes, it can be very difficult to understand.


you are not alone. you will learn to find your center. from there you will figure out who around you is helping, and who is pulling you backwards. 

from there, find the breeze you wish to follow, and sail with your dreams. I have a new very good friend who is starting to find her breeze, and her vector. 

Beautiful to watch...


----------



## Gorgon

@Cheshire Tower

Thank you for being so candid. I'm sorry to hear that your parents used such a tragic situation to shame you. We all have stuff to go through, all of which are very real and should never be minimized. You seem like a great person, so keep doing what you're doing .

As a fellow 5w4, I understand the conflicting relationship you have with your emotions. Similar to your household, positive feelings were always welcomed, but negative feelings especially anger were verboten (I like that word). They were seen as signs of being ungrateful. Moreover, my parents are a high-strung bunch, so I had to be unassuming and not be a burden. Thankfully my parents were not as severe as yours. Nonetheless, that and other life events have resulted in years of repressed rage. I'm not the one to blow up, but I stew and seethe in my anger. I have very visceral reactions to things, though I only show a glimpse of that intensity outwardly. I don't want to lose control and alienate myself even further, but that excess steam has to go somewhere. There are days where I feel like destroying everything in my path. Also, in general, women are not prompted to show their anger and express aggression directly (but I say fuck that). As I've gotten older, that line to 8 has become more salient and has surfaced with a vengeance, on top of being a sx-dom. Sometimes, I feel like I'm more reactive than your typical 5 (unless of course, I'm mistyped).


----------



## Animal

Everything is fine. For once. Nothing is ideal or perfect, but everything is wonderful. We may end up together or we may not. You may love me or you may not. It doesn't matter. I know my mission. 

My mission is to stop worrying about whether you can accept me. I can handle you rejecting me for who I am. What I can't handle is hiding myself from you, only to wonder for the rest of my life how you might have reacted if I showed you more of my humanity.

Some of me is hard for you to understand or accept. I know that. Some of my self-expression may trigger you. That's okay. You are beautiful the way you are. I would change nothing, even if I could. We both trigger each other and we both challenge each other, but beyond that, we both try to understand the other, and look past ourselves to communicate and be compassionate. That alone is worth cherishing.

I have been selling you short by trying to protect your tender sensibilities, or more realistically, trying to protect myself from the inevitable sorrow I would experience if I lost you. I need to stop worrying about reactions that haven't happened yet. I already know that the fantasy of rejection leads to the very behavior that gets me rejected. If I can't internalize that message, all of my self-reflection is nothing more than indulgence. 

You have not rejected me, you have not shamed me, you have not abandoned me. You have reached outside your comfort zone to show me how much I mean to you, especially when I refuse to believe it. In turn, I need to stop expecting you to reject me at every turn. You have earned that trust.

My goal is not to win your heart, to secure a future, to obtain promises. You are not a goal. The goal is me. I need to invest in myself, in accepting and forgiving myself, with my past, with my appetite, with my need, with my jealousy. I don't need to display all of it to you in some attempt to be accepted. It's an internal issue. I need to believe I am inherently good enough for you, and your decisions are outside my control. What is within my control is to believe I am good. As you do. For both our sakes I will try. Regardless whether you choose me as a partner, I will carry that lesson with me. I have learned it before, but your compassion is pushing me to internalize it. 

Thank you for your innocence.


----------



## nichya

Chesire Tower said:


> Thanks so much for your kind post. It was mostly my mom who did this.
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you've ever read the book, I think it's called, "Children of the Holocaust" which tells the stories of not only the children of the survivors but the children of the children of the survivors; an awful lot of abuse took place as a result of it. I've also met some of these people and from what I was told; I got off very easy. Most of them had things far worse then me.
> 
> Some of them were regularly beaten with whips and belts and others were locked for days in closets without food or water I can't judge those people for what they went through. I would make anyone crazy, I would think. I can't even imagine what it must have been like. To this day, you can't pay me to see a movie like _Schindlers' List _which was a whitewash of what really happened but still; I'm terrified of having a panic attack in the theater.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Narcissistic parent and romantic relationships
> 
> 
> It's really difficult especially when people who think they know me, who really have no idea what my life's been like; pass hurtful and spurious judgement upon me but I know that for anyone who hasn't walked in my shoes, it can be very difficult to understand.


well cheers. This is on spot. I think both of my parents are narcissistic. My ESTP mom more than the ESFJ dad. The sensitive, guilt-ridden children shall be me. I am not codependent though, I am independent to a fault as otherwise would be frown upon by my mom. I have learnt not to depend or trust anyone and literally get everything done myself the hard way, I can't even ask for help or even for a ride when my car breaks down in polar vortex days.
I have literally been trying to tell this to my mom but nothing gets to her and she doesn't seem to be occupied by how this screws up my life or even understanding or acknowledging. She seems to be only bothered that I do talk.


----------



## Lunar Light

I feel alive again. Not that I felt dead before, exactly, but I feel the life in my fingertips again. It's so strange, how these revelations come to me. Suddenly the world is a lot brighter. Not necessarily _l__ighter_, just more fine-tuned, sharp, crisp than it was before. In this case, though, I do feel the light. I feel calm, accepting, but at the same time, energized, refreshed. 

Last night, I cried a whole lot. This isn't groundbreaking for me, given that I cry basically every single day, often multiple times a day. I just feel so much, and I always have. But yeah... I didn't cry because my plans have gone to shit again, and my mate and I are sort of falling apart. Suddenly, from one second to the next, it was as if I had transcended these immediate problems. They're big problems, they really are, but in the end I don't live for them. In the context of my whole life ahead of me, these things are small. They're not, in a practical sense, but on a...spiritual level?, that sort of abstract fulfillment, they are. 

As long as I have my friends, my mate, these incredibly beautiful people in my life... what does it all matter? What, really? I don't want to die. I want to be able to sustain myself, and a lot of my abstract goals are in fact tied to these practical processes. But I live for these beautiful moments. Even without these people, crushing as it would be to be without them, I still have the memories. That was how it was last night. I cried over the beauty I perceived in my friend, but she wasn't even there. 

The magic was happening in my mind. Life is magic to me. And life is everywhere. Everywhere... 

I live for this life, and I live to continue to find this life. Which is reassuring, because I know that as long as I live and look for it, life will be there for me.

I stared at some fire today. Heard it sing in its crackles, saw it dance in its movements. And with world history still in my mind from classes this week, I thought of where we came from. Humanity itself. And where fire stands in the development of our species. It made me think of how I evolved individually. Where I came from, before the "fire," which I think of as the biggest turning point in my life, and how I've changed since then, how I continue to change. 

My brain makes these connections subconsciously, without me even noticing. Only now that I reflect do I see how that thought progressed gradually, as that connection was not immediate. The thoughts happened hours apart. It's interesting...nice.

I see myself as a child, always attaching to people, as to me they were my lifeline, my lifeblood. I see how deep rejection made this need for attachment more desperate, unhealthy. I see how I let myself fall into the trap of clinging to all sorts of people, people who didn't even really care about me, people who were manipulative, though not always very maliciously so. And I see how I knew that, how fear lit my gaze. I see that so desperate was my need for people that it didn't really matter that I was taking these risks, leading myself to hurt on the off chance that I might instead gain warmth, understanding, love. I see how I rebelled from time to time, against both them and myself. I see the turmoil gripping both my insides and outsides, figuratively bringing me to my knees. I see how I still rose from what I thought were the ashes of myself. I see how I learned to live for myself, and in that, how I came to understand more and more. Why I live, why I fight. I see how at the time I didn't even really know what I was doing. I see how I was just looking for answers, clinging to a fearful, blind hope. I see how that blind reach outward toward life was worth my time. I see how in the last couple years, I have realized that I never did lose myself. I see how that would be impossible, after connecting the dots in my life. I see how I still long for people, I see how I am still so sensitive, so idealistic, so willing to give trust, so absolutely ridiculous. I see at this point that nothing and no one can take any of this away from me. 

I see myself. I see my friends. I see my mate. I see the people of this world. I see in my mind the great strides I will take toward writing, speaking about life as I know it. I see light...love. I see life.

All these things are beautiful, meaningful, even when they are dark, bleak, seemingly empty, seemingly gone. 

I have fallen in love with life again.

This feeling might be fleeting. Tomorrow, I might will be crying again, but it might be for different reasons. But I'm okay with that. I am happy for this now.


----------



## knife

@Swordsman of Mana suggested to me last night he thinks I'm more a 5 than a 6. He also said to us all that, in his opinion, Sx 5's are the loneliest type.

I kind of agree with him. We're not dissimilar in the way we aggressively pursue partners, the way we're regarded as wolves -- and the way we have a romantic undercurrent.

The Sx 5, he suggests, wants to merge more than any other Sx-dom. To the Sx 5, the greatest show of intimacy is simple: Letting them enter your life. At a certain level, the Sx subverts the 5's own drive towards independence, as the Sx compels him or her to seek comfort and satisfaction and fulfillment in the arms of a partner.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I know that I only feel fulfilled when I'm in this mode of one-on-one conquering, when my girl and me follow the vagaries of my heart. And yet, sometimes I give in as the spirit of conquering -- and being conquered -- rises ... and sometimes I _don't_. And I don't know why I choose who I do.


----------



## Maker of helmets

There is one thing I cannot give myself, that is love from the one that I want 

The weird place of not being able to do anything except to wait in case the one you love chooses, 

but you would not give it away because it is sweeter to be disappointed than to be afraid of ever being in this place

Because then I will have loved, regardless of the outcome. And that is all any of us can do, is love, or not! 

So at least I am in this place, where I can be disappointed, or not, instead of being afraid as I was. And I was!

Somehow it is the safest and most unsafe place to be in the entire universe, yet more safe than it is unsafe.

Unsafe cos open to being disappointed, or not, safe because there is no other choice to make than to love.

And all the rest of the time we are just wandering around till we make the choice to love.

Making the choice to love is inherently making the choice to open oneself to being disappointed, or not.

Hell on earth is that time in my life when I was just wondering around, more afraid than prepared to love.

Heaven on earth is already here, because even if I am going to be disappointed again, at least I am not afraid anymore.

I just hope someday my choice to open myself to being disappointed will be completely honoured, for the last and first time.

And then I will receive the kind of love I was always looking for. 

Then I won't be afraid anymore, at all, because I will have received all the love I was looking for. 

To taste it only half is better than not, and yet feels as though it were worse than not at all.


----------



## galactic collision

I think there's something wrong with me. I must be defective. I'm just always going to be the one who's beautiful on the inside. She's got a great personality. 

People are screaming outside. I can't sleep. I feel wrong. I feel like I don't know myself at all. I live in a city with millions of people and I can't find one person. I want love. At the very least I want a best friend. At the very least of all, I want sex. Why do I lose out every time?

There must be something seriously wrong with me.


----------



## Animal

My friends often make points about what I deserve. "You don't deserve that." "You deserve better." "You deserve someone who gives you his all." Etc.

I realize this comes from a good, loving place. Most of my friends see me as being a strong, independent, honest person, and they think I deserve to get back the love that they have seen: the love and understanding and compassion that I have given THEM.

The problem is, they don't know what i'm like in a romantic scenario. They know from my descriptions, and they know how angry and hurt I am, but they don't know what it's like from the perspective of the person I am obsessing over. They don't know how I compete, how I cower, how I never believe I am good enough or loved and all the attempts at "not overloading him" can just lead to me being empty, plastic and distant. They don't know how withdrawn I really am when I feel vulnerable, and all the ways I try to make up for it. They don't know how much I suck at communicating. My feelings become an elephant in the room that I stare at but refuse to acknowledge aloud.

For this reason, nobody may ever understand why I perceive such strength and beauty in him. Aside from those who have been romantically involved with me in any capacity at any time, nobody can actually understand what he is going through, and how difficult I am. I remember in the past when I was always upset about a love interest, and my ex told me it was "karma" and he couldn't blame him. I completely agreed, too. But none of my friends saw it. My friends just saw "He doesn't deserve you." In other words, he didn't deserve the version of me that they were familiar with.

Compassion is about putting yourself in the other person's shoes. When someone has tremendous power over me, it's easy to feel like he is doing me wrong or not giving me what I want. It's easy to feel helpless and stranded and wronged. But the easy route is dishonest. My momentary feelings may cause me to put up walls to 'defend myself' from this perceived rejection. But in a deeper way, I never fall back on what's easy. I can't help but feel what is genuine, authentic, real. And the whole truth includes both me and him. Before accusing someone of something, I have to account for my own actions as well.

That is the part that may be tough for my friends to conceive, and it's hard to explain. It can be subtle. It is not always easy for me to perceive either, since I can't fully see myself from outside. Of course, there are situations when someone truly doesn't deserve me, and it is always good to hear from a friend that I am good, that I deserve anything at all. I am not faulting anyone for this. It is a wonderful thing. It is easy to get too caught up forgiving someone too rather than facing the prospect of losing them, even when walking away might be better for both parties. But relationships are not about how much I gave him vs. how much he gives me. It is about whether the connection is enriching us both overall, even if some of the ride is difficult to endure. Nothing worthwhile comes easy.

I don't know if I can show my friends how beautiful he is. Those who have been intimate with me may understand, but most people won't. I can't fault them, nor should I try to explain. The truth will reveal itself over time and everyone will decide for themselves what to believe. Some people may never see it, and some may already see it. It doesn't matter. Either way I am thankful to have such amazing friends and excited to finally feel good about this journey with him. I don't know where it's going, and I don't know if it will amount to anything that I can label in a concrete way, but internally, it has already transformed me into a stronger person. I've come so far since last year. He has helped me accept myself and taught me by example what love and loyalty mean. No matter what happens going forward, I will never forget.


----------



## Maker of helmets

Animal said:


> the easy route is dishonest


We take the path of least resistance, sometimes, because we know no other way to be. 

But when we make our path differently, the path of what we know is better, that becomes home in a new way.

I love your writing, by the way. It makes me feel at home and understood all at once.


----------



## Maker of helmets

SX subtype maybe is perceived as weak by my society, because independence is equated with strength.

The yearning for dependence is pathologised, and I fall into the trap of feeling I am weak for needing someone. 

But turn the tables on their head, and I see my society is afraid of dependence, and insecure in its independence.

Afraid of being in the position, again, where it is open to being disappointed, or not. More afraid than it is prepared to risk for love.

So I will not take my lessons from society, in this regard. I will take my lessons from SX subtype. Haha. 

We all need someone! SX subtype just knows that


----------



## Animal

Maker of helmets said:


> We take the path of least resistance, sometimes, because we know no other way to be.
> 
> But when we make our path differently, the path of what we know is better, that becomes home in a new way.
> 
> I love your writing, by the way. It makes me feel at home and understood all at once.


This made my day  Thank you 


I loved your post here too! I noticed it and recognized many of my own sentiments....


----------



## Maker of helmets

@Animal This is already my favourite thread  haha 

I've found my star in the galaxy - this thread! Haha


----------



## drmiller100

Animal said:


> how I never believe I am good enough or loved .




Figure out how to KNOW you are enough. I can't help you. No one can help you with this. 

You have to do the work.

Hugs, and Love,
D


----------



## HellCat

Thanatesque said:


> Also, I admire (and I'll admit, envy) women who have a lot of inner power and strength like @_Animal_, @_Vajra_, and @_LeoCat_. I know I don't you ladies personally (and you sure as hell don't know me, I'm just some random stranger lol), but from your posts, I can tell you guys have immense strength. Moreover, it's strength that doesn't come from being invincible, perfect, or being a bully. It comes from a place of vulnerability, self-awareness, hardship, and from confronting your own monsters. I admire and respect that. I hope someday, I'll be able to fully access that strength and power. It's a long road, but it's worth it.



That is so sweet. Thank you


I share my past because I want someone else to take meaning from it and hopefully heal a bit and not feel alone. I know thats why they do too. Very compassionate and generous women you mentioned there. 

If you ever want to talk. Please feel free.


----------



## HellCat

IF one more person suggests I just work out to lose the pregnancy weight I put on like the first month those damn hormones hit my body I will kill them and feed them to my cat.

I live on protein, vegetables- especially spinach and peppers. I eat better than ANY of you fuckers.

Stop telling me what to do for my body and how to look. I am unable to walk more than a mile without breaking down and crying and I used to do 6 to 9 a day.

I know how to lose the pregnancy weight and I am not going to kill myself and risk pre eclampsia just because you think I need to be a small again.

I was in a medium before. Right now its a large/Xl because my breasts have exploded and I used to be a 36F.. now I am bigger up there I swear each one weighs five pounds. Walking is agony. Standing to do dishes is agony.. vacuuming agony.. everything makes me feel like I ran a marathon. I wear three sports bras to be able to stand up and not crawl around on all fours. 

I am five nine with a strong core and I am still solid muscle.

I also still work out.. within reason. 500 cat/cow 100 pelvic tilts/ 100 bridges

I used to work out three to four hours a day for fun before he knocked me up.

Fuck you all!


----------



## cinnabun

Impatience is my biggest flaw by far.

If I want something, I want it _now_, and I (usually) always get what I want. I've never understood it when people tell me no, just like I've never understood the phrase 'good things come to those who wait'.

I'm so used to fighting it ever step of the way. Fighting with those who tell me I need to wait, who tell me I can't have it right this second, that what I want isn't 'realistic' for the point in time. I always pushed and shoved until my dreams were realised.

I've never let someone weight me down when I'm fighting for what I believe in.

This time though, I can't do that. There's nobody to argue with, nobody to convince, nobody to push or shove. It's not a single person that's getting in my way, it's fate. It's really frustrating, because for the first time I can't just dive head first into the situation, I can't take control of it. I can't work independently to achieve it....and it's incredibly difficult. 

The funny thing is, everything I wanted before was meaningless, what I desire right now is real: it's love.

I'm still going to fight the odds that are against me, though. I'm not going to give up that easily. 

Even during the heaviest of rain storms, my spirit still remains as fiery as ever.


----------



## Thalassa

Last night I dreamed I was sitting with a group of people at an informal dinner party, and I was grossed out they were trying to feed me beef. But in true SX style, I felt bored and lonely despite the company, EMPTY AND SAD actually, so I went looking for my ESFP and he was somehow elusive, I was in this maze of trees and porches and lofts with ladders outdoors, I kept catching glimpses of him, and became jealous that it was possible I couldn't find him because he was with another woman. But when I found him he was sleeping on the couch alone, buried under an absurd and unnatural amount of bedding, just piles of blankets, with only his feet in socks sticking out. When I finally uncovered him, he criticized me coldly for being too open about my feelings about him in front of his family. But the people who I had dinner with werent his family, so it didn't have linear logic to the dream. 

It's a really important dream because it's burned upon my mind hours later, and is strangely ambiguous, like whatever problems exist in our relationship could partly be that he's "hiding" from me emotionally (under all the blankets) because he feels I violated his trust in some way, like I made him feel too exposed, and my inner loneliness suggests that he is really what matters to me, the pain in my dream was so real it was physical, when I was searching for him, and the emptiness I felt with the other people. BUT another interpretation of the dream is that I *think* I need him so bad, but then he hurts me in some way. So do I really need this person in my life. The third possibility is that my unconscious brain sympathized with both myself and him, like unconsciously when I am asleep I am more objective about how he feels and not just about my own side, which is why the dream was so ambiguous. And that my jealousy was mostly my own doing, my own creation, because he was literally "sleeping alone" when I found him.


----------



## Animal

Thanatesque said:


> Also, I admire (and I'll admit, envy) women who have a lot of inner power and strength like @_Animal_, @_Vajra_, and @_LeoCat_. I know I don't you ladies personally (and you sure as hell don't know me, I'm just some random stranger lol), but from your posts, I can tell you guys have immense strength. Moreover, it's strength that doesn't come from being invincible, perfect, or being a bully. It comes from a place of vulnerability, self-awareness, hardship, and from confronting your own monsters. I admire and respect that. I hope someday, I'll be able to fully access that strength and power. It's a long road, but it's worth it.













This post made me smile  


It was a long road for me too. I don't know if you have encountered any posts about my past and trauma-reaction, but there was a time I was broken and completely unable to be vulnerable. I took LSD often because it made me vulnerable; it was the only time my feelings were honest and bare enough to reflect on. Most of my trips were spent alone, ravaging my own mind, doing experiments on myself. I would isolate myself and allow myself nothing but a diary and a pen. Next trip, a keyboard (being recorded). Next trip, watercolors for paint. Next trip, a computer with a word program. I wanted to boil each art form down to its rawest expression and see how my emotions were reflected in that medium at my most vulnerable. 

I also read extensively - Carlos Casteneda, Herman Hesse, Timothy Leary, Carl Jung, and other dream psychology, to try to figure myself out, my subconscious, who I was. I learned to control my dreams but then tried to unlearn it so I could listen to my subconscious. 

After enough acid trips I had nothing left to express in the mediums available to me... the drug still stripped me of defenses, but I had seen anything inside myself that it could possibly show me, and I felt like each trip at that point was making me age as the process became stale. There was nothing more for me to find inside myself. On my last trip in 2005, I was listening to music and writing about my dreams to eventually release a music album (despite losing my singing voice to illness prior to all this). I realized that although I had cut down to tripping once a year at most, still, the art and self-discovery I was doing for the last few trips all hinged around the eventuality of releasing my own album. There were other feelings I could express in other mediums but nothing was satisfying because I had this unfinished need hanging over my head, making all of my other projects feel like "meanwhiling." I promised myself I would not touch LSD again until I could spend the trip listening to my album and giving it an honest reaction in a diary or other medium. 

I released my album in 2011 but I still haven't touched the drug again, or any other in 10 years for that matter.  But that was what I had to do in order to rediscover my own resolve, a sense of purpose beyond surviving, consuming, hunger, raw expression. 

Throughout my trauma-reaction I was still artistically expressive , but that is all I was. An animal and a symbol, not a human. The only place I could be me was in these mirrors of myself, these inner journeys expressed through symbols: photos, stories, songs. That humanity was missing in my life: my very being was a symbol of myself. My hair was dyed pink-red to match my specific brand of lust and hunger and I would dye streaks of blue or green to represent trials I went through with emotions. My outfits were color and material coded to demonstrate what was happening inside me. My jewelry and makeup could be anything from pretty to wild to way too extreme, as long as it was an honest representation of my feelings. But there was no subtlety, no sense of belonging, no sense of communication with another person, a give and take. It was just me embodying my raw passion, anger, hatred, hurt, love, hopelessness, need, desire, pain, longing... in the form of lifestyle, clothing, artistic expression. My body was a canvas and my mind was a tool. My heart is what I was seeking and seeking and seeking, hoping that some expression, some art, some photo, would be the thing to reveal it to me. 

But what exactly was I looking for? I invented a symbol for "the force that drives you" and wrote it on my skin for photoshoots. I was seeking that force, that purpose. I couldn't replace my singing voice and music career with some meaningless "filler." I had to seek within to find out what drove me to sing in the first place and how I could express myself like I used to. Not only did I need to find something I truly care about, but also, I had to fight chronic illness and depend on outlandishly expensive medications to survive. I could no longer pour my soul into some talent or outlet, knowing it could be taken away by the next relapse. It became clear over time that I needed to embody something that could NOT be taken away: my _sense_ of purpose, my _sense_ of passion, my _sense_ of self. My essence. My essence _is_ my voice, and as long as I live, it can still sing. 

I have come a long way. I am sure you can too. What sets apart those who grow from those who don't, is really a choice. That is my opinion anyway. Some of us choose to grow. Some don't. Those who choose to grow, are likely to grow, even if there are roadblocks and periods of hopelessness, faithlessness and apathy along the way. Those who choose to overcome, are likely to overcome.

----


* *





Side note, some things I learned about myself:

- Possessiveness of a lover is not a social construct. It is an instinct. That doesn't mean that every human feels it to the same degree or that everyone has to reckon with it in the same way, but at least for me, it is an instinctual urge that needs to be dealt with one way or other. I cannot reason my way out of it or strip it from myself by stripping away the nonsense that society fed to me or whatever. If you don't believe me, observe your top 5 favorite animals and how they behave in this scenario. 

- Texts say that intimacy releases attachment hormones in women but not men. Due to observations and experience, I conclude that the whole "men don't get attached from sex and women do" IS a social construct. If you don't believe me, observe your top 5 favorite animals and how they behave in this scenario. 

- Through exercises and diligence and reading etc, I can control dreams, I can repeat sequences in dreams to try to do better, I can control myself in dreams (always), I can see people I want to see in my dreams and induce any dream I want if I go about my lifestyle a certain way. But it's much more fulfilling to forget about all of those things and just dream and allow my subconscious to reveal it to me. Control is overrated.

- I can survive on very little food and a lot of exercise but again, control is overrated. This practice is tempting when I see gorgeous thin pictures of myself with perfect muscles, but day to day, it's distracting from what is really important and it hinders vulnerability. When fighting off something like an appetite, I start to feel more like a powerhouse than a human. It makes me feel disconnected from others and enforces the inner idea that I am "separate" from these things that unite everyone else. I have never once believed that anorexia is about being skinny or fat. At least for me, it's about control and will power, the capacity to suffer for a cause. If I have such power over myself, I have power over anyone or anything I want. "Do not compare me to other humans. I don't need you. I don't even need _food_." It can be intoxicating and addictive for this reason. But I have since discovered other outlets for my will power which are equally challenging, yet much more humbling, and which connect me to my humanity as well as other humans. Like writing books, for instance.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Thanatesque said:


> I feel like rambling today.
> 
> @_Sygma_
> That was erotic
> @_bellicose_
> 
> Your post is like holding a mirror to myself. At any one point, I could've written that post word for word. I feel your rage. Feel free to PM me anytime.
> 
> Lately, I've been withdrawing into myself. I mean this isn't anything out of the ordinary, but the need has been more potent. I don't feel the need to extrovert my thoughts and feelings at the moment, only sparingly. This has been a time of studying and learning. Each day should be meant for growth and to gather more wisdom.
> 
> Furthermore, each day I'm trying to reconcile the contradictions within myself. To fully come into my
> own power. To not inhibit or minimize myself, needs, and desires. I am someone that wants to live as fearlessly and passionately possible, but I let issues both big and quotidian inhibit me. I'm bold,
> phobic, atavistic, detached, crazed, and cautious. I run on vicious desire, rage, love, hate, and
> creativity. I want to combine primal instincts with Apollonian aspirations to result in something powerful and revolutionary. I want everything and nothing
> 
> Along the same lines, here's a poem by Swami Vivekananda called "Kali the Mother"
> 
> The stars are blotted out,
> The clouds are covering clouds,
> It is darkness vibrant, sonant.
> 
> In the roaring, whirling wind
> Are the souls of a million lunatics
> Just loose from the prison-house,
> Wrenching trees by the roots,
> Sweeping all from the path.
> 
> The sea has joined the fray,
> And swirls up mountain-waves,
> To reach the pitchy sky.
> The flash of lurid light
> 
> Reveals on every side
> A thousand, thousand shades
> Of Death begrimed and black —
> Scattering plagues and sorrows,
> Dancing mad with joy,
> Come, Mother, come!
> For Terror is Thy name,
> Death is in Thy breath,
> 
> And every shaking step
> Destroys a world for e'er.
> Thou 'Time', the All-Destroyer!
> Come, O Mother, come!
> 
> Who dares misery love,
> And hug the form of Death,
> Dance in Destruction's dance,
> To him the Mother comes.


I find it fascinating to see 5w4 from a Fi perspective because in one sense - also being a 5w4, I do relate to it but function wise; it almost seems somewhat alien to me - which is precisely why I find Fi expressed particularly the way that you and @Animal do; to be extremely enlightening and helpful for me.

Your poem is absolutely breathtaking in all of its evocative imagery. I also write poetry. You should seriously consider publishing this. John Keats, himself - would applaud you. Amazing!


----------



## HellCat

Thanatesque said:


> Also, I admire (and I'll admit, envy) women who have a lot of inner power and strength like @_Animal_, @_Vajra_, and @_LeoCat_. I know I don't you ladies personally (and you sure as hell don't know me, I'm just some random stranger lol), but from your posts, I can tell you guys have immense strength. Moreover, it's strength that doesn't come from being invincible, perfect, or being a bully. It comes from a place of vulnerability, self-awareness, hardship, and from confronting your own monsters. I admire and respect that. I hope someday, I'll be able to fully access that strength and power. It's a long road, but it's worth it.


Going to take a page from the indomitable @_Animal_ and give a precis of my history.



A terribly sensitive, stormy, Wednesday Addams like child with a horrible past of abuse from a party girl mom and creepy car thief stepfather, a wealthy grandma who spoiled me rotten- it literally was feast or famine. A cult leader father and country club snob stepmom who spent my teens trying to convince me that my size six frame was obese because of DD chest. 


My twenties was spent with a dark, crazy ex husband who was more like my brother that my father had bullied me into marrying. I took my power back divorcing him, then remarrying him to fix the credit he fucked up when I was 22. I used that time to support my sister and her kids and buy a great fancy investment house in Fl. 

Thirty I met my husband on here of all places and we got married after 17 months of friendship. 

I got past the aforementioned life by studying inner healing. I studied with a hypnotherapist who taught me how to go inside myself and examine memories, let it go, to gain understanding and empathy, Also many books on healing. My personal favorite is Brene Brown, and Susan forwards Toxic Parents.

I used yoga, pilates, ballroom dance, pole/belly, body building weights, kung fu, boxing, running, music, art, writing, training my ass off to purge my anger and energy. To find inner peace I vowed to be careful of every word I speak over someones spirit and to be mindful of how easy it is to screw someone up mentally/emotionally with a careless bullying sentence. No not perfect sometimes I put a bitch in her place still, most of the time I try to take a step back and use wisdom before I act/speak and examine what I am really feeling. 

I used a feelings wheel to examine the storm inside me. 

It has taken a lot to get past thinking of myself as the little matchstick girl no matter how much money I made. I used to have endless meltdowns with my patient friends about how I was a poisoned lionfish who would KILL my husband with my icy heart and evil ways. 

Other crazy bullshit I internalized over the years.

Having great friends who will examine emotions and lies and help you find the truths in yourself are tantamount. 

So is educating yourself emotionally and finding ways to vent it all, to release it, to find peace. 

This is a great first step.


----------



## Gorgon

Chesire Tower said:


> I find it fascinating to see 5w4 from a Fi perspective because in one sense - also being a 5w4, I do relate to it but function wise; it almost seems somewhat alien to me - which is precisely why I find Fi expressed particularly the way that you and @Animal do; to be extremely enlightening and helpful for me.
> 
> Your poem is absolutely breathtaking in all of its evocative imagery. I also write poetry. You should seriously consider publishing this. John Keats, himself - would applaud you. Amazing!


Are you talking about the "Kali the Mother" by Swami Vivekananda? Nah, that's not mine. I wish I can write with that type of imagery. I do write, mostly stream-of-conscious, essays, and some crappy poems haha. Honestly looking back at some of my stuff, it's a little cringeworthy. Yes, you can tell the Fi is strong with this one lol. I can PM you some of my stuff if you're interested. I also wrote some essays on my on my blog on here. I'm interested to see your poetry.
@Animal and @LeoCat
Thank you for sharing your stories, and being so honest about it as well. Many people can learn and take inspiration from you ladies.


----------



## Golden Rose

Anger is an odd thing for me.

I get irritated quite a lot and yet it doesn't really affect me, I don't feel anything.

I don't understand how am I supposed to feel or even what I'm genuinely feeling, all I see is strings of mistakes and things that are objectively wrong. Not morally wrong, not logically wrong, just a reflection of failure. I seek reasons to be angry, I seek reasons to throw myself out there and seize the moment and escape through anything physical or aggressive but it really does nothing.

Because all I have is a lot of questions and there's clear answers and yet even those aren't satisfying.
I want to understand but I don't and this lack of being in charge of my own life destroys me.

I don't even get indignant on my own terms, I care little about most things.
But I channel it, I charge it, I throw myself into situations just to be able to lay a hit.
If something cannot be fixed, no matter how I try, instead of waiting I just smash it with a hammer.

I could've had it all. I had ambition, intelligence, vision, skills.
But my social and mental ineptitude threw it all away over the years, I can't even blame the abuse.

I'm angry. Yet I don't know why. I'm apathetic too and I hate this inconsistency.
I have no reasons not to be doubted and yet it angers me.
I could have been working on a Ph.D by now or starting to be a medical intern, devouring videos of surgeries. I could have been a productive person, pissing excellence just like someone's signature states.

But nope. Just a pathetic shut in, over focusing on a bullshit personality theory and destroying her body and future. I told him, I didn't care and I really didn't. But I want to flush my life down the drain.

I hate this blunt openness. I use sarcasm. I downplay it.
If asked how I feel, I genuinely don't know. I really don't.

The real work starts now.


----------



## drmiller100

The eyes........................

she shared an incredibly personal, vulnerable, INTENSE thing with me. She took a chance, and she shared it..... With me. 

And her eyes told the story of the truth behind it. Words won't convey my awe; hopefully my actions will.


----------



## Eclipsed

Maker of helmets said:


> @_bellicose_
> 
> raw energy, I see nothing but humanity in your raw energy. more humanity than in the people who bottle you up.
> 
> Are you a writer?
> 
> I feel like the creativity you would write with would be stunning, honestly.
> 
> Writers that get paid to write, some of them never felt that raw energy you experience ever in their lives.
> 
> I would read your writing a million times over theirs. Just saying.


I don't know if I can call myself a writer, but I considered it to be an integral part of my identity for most of my life. I'm unsure about that at the moment, so I can't answer your question.

And yes, it's true that I have energy, but it's too intense and also extremely exhausting because I have to contain it within myself all of the time. I don't think that energy on its own is a good thing, anyway. What matters is how that energy is harnessed, and I have a very long way to go in that department. :laughing:

Thanks, though.
@Thanatesque

:blushed: Aww, it means a lot that you could relate to it in some way. Writing is the only way I can really connect to the world, and if any of my words resonated with you, then I am truly honoured._ Especially_ because I've seen some of your posts floating around the forum and I am absolutely in love with your writing style- I love the control you have over your words. The way I write is much less refined, so I'm a more than little jealous. 

I'll definitely take you up on that offer and PM you. I'd love to talk more.


----------



## Superfluous

9 days


----------



## Gorgon

I'm going to see my (LD) boyfriend again on Sunday! So happy! :kitteh:

Also, with me having more time to myself, I've trying to read 6 books at the same time. All are very interesting and challenging. I hope I can finish all of them. I want to learn about everything! There's so much to know.


----------



## Vaka

I really believe after a week of very slight depression which I put off to PMS that I might be slightly hypomanic lollol

--Or perhaps it's just me


----------



## Golden Rose

Superfluous said:


> 9 days


Way to go, girl!

That close? Wow.
Time flies faster than I usually expect it to.


----------



## drmiller100

I'm majorly crushing on someone from this site. I think she is figuring it out.....


----------



## HellCat

hi

Creature that comes from within who is beating the hell out of my ribs. I promise to feed you a cheeseburger.

 Why can't I just have a normal life and not have encountered an American hating racist fuck of a doctor. 

Now I am going to end up being delivered by my husband I just know it.

I wanted a black and white photo and a birth plan.


----------



## Animal

I am miserable. For so many reasons.


Someone I went to highschool with just died. Probably from heroin. We were friends back then. I even wrote a song about a dream I had about him..when I was 15. He was good to me and brought me food when I was sick and couldn't walk very well. Any time he sees me on the street in the past 10 years, he became passionate and tearful about me losing my voice and told me I was "still an angel." He even played songs for me on guitar.

I recently found out the person who influenced me the most musically - someone I was close with and played music with and loved - injured himself in such a way that he can no longer play his instrument. It's so ironic that the ghost of my voice was resurrected because of his music, which has now joined my voice as a ghost. Why couldn't I lose my hand and he lose his voice? Why does everyone always lose what is most important to them? 

I am stuck in a place I don't want to live for reasons out of my control. I have no friends here anymore. Everyone else is healthy and able to move away, have kids, get jobs, go where they like, marry who they love.

I'm not able to get a cat because of issues with other humans, and I don't know if I have enough money and health to support a dog. Rodents and birds are unsatisfying. But without friends or pets, I'm too alone. 

My closest friends have history between them and I am torn in the aftermath. I can't make them both happy, and I don't know what to do.


Everything feels hopeless.


I am eternally grateful to my friend. He has been the light of my life for a year. He has the most beautiful mind I have encountered and I feel so fortunate for the chance to bask in such a vivid inner landscape. He brings laughter and hope and joy, makes all of my burdens easier to bear, and shows me tremendous compassion when I am volcanic and miserable. I am amazed every day by his ideas, his magic, his thoughtfulness, his honesty, his genuineness, his strength, his will power, his passion... but most of all, his compassion and consistency. I don't know where the future will lead, but I can't even imagine where I would be right now without him. :crying:


----------



## Gorgon

At least one good quality that I have is my inquisitiveness. I'm eternally a child, the fool, the student. There's always an element of newness to the world that I never fail to encounter. The world is fascinating, scary, exciting, and tragic in its burgeoning possibilities, maddening limitations, in it's awe inspiring beauty, its throttling ugliness, and most importantly, its complexity. There's an infinite amount of ways to perceive and experience the world, so why limit yourself to one or a few ways of being. Learning a new concept or doing something new is like being born again. Something is changed along the way. It's like adding to,breaking, and rewiring a web. The network becomes both complex and simplified, but it never stays in one state; it's dynamic. I never want to be stagnant.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Animal said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am miserable. For so many reasons.
> 
> 
> Someone I went to highschool with just died. Probably from heroin. We were friends back then. I even wrote a song about a dream I had about him..when I was 15. He was good to me and brought me food when I was sick and couldn't walk very well. Any time he sees me on the street in the past 10 years, he became passionate and tearful about me losing my voice and told me I was "still an angel." He even played songs for me on guitar.
> 
> I recently found out the person who influenced me the most musically - someone I was close with and played music with and loved - injured himself in such a way that he can no longer play his instrument. It's so ironic that the ghost of my voice was resurrected because of his music, which has now joined my voice as a ghost. Why couldn't I lose my hand and he lose his voice? Why does everyone always lose what is most important to them?
> 
> I am stuck in a place I don't want to live for reasons out of my control. I have no friends here anymore. Everyone else is healthy and able to move away, have kids, get jobs, go where they like, marry who they love.
> 
> I'm not able to get a cat because of issues with other humans, and I don't know if I have enough money and health to support a dog. Rodents and birds are unsatisfying. But without friends or pets, I'm too alone.
> 
> My closest friends have history between them and I am torn in the aftermath. I can't make them both happy, and I don't know what to do.
> 
> 
> Everything feels hopeless.
> 
> 
> I am eternally grateful to my friend. He has been the light of my life for a year. He has the most beautiful mind I have encountered and I feel so fortunate for the chance to bask in such a vivid inner landscape. He brings laughter and hope and joy, makes all of my burdens easier to bear, and shows me tremendous compassion when I am volcanic and miserable. I am amazed every day by his ideas, his magic, his thoughtfulness, his honesty, his genuineness, his strength, his will power, his passion... but most of all, his compassion and consistency. I don't know where the future will lead, but I can't even imagine where I would be right now without him. :crying:[


I am so sorry for your loss. :sad:


----------



## nichya

@mimesis

It feels as if you are talking of sx as an independent element, I was talking about being sp second to sx first. So my emphasis was on the pull. Not every sx first have the same exact nature, you should check sx/sp together it is an entirely different form. 

I do crave intensity, like I said I want to burn bright and fast, I am in a constant longing and desire, and yes many times it is what makes me go out of my comfort zone "for the sake of the 'rush' when the boundaries of 'Self' are -temporarily- transcended" I want to experience everything in an intense form or it will do nothing for me. I always -crave- for something, some form of intensity that I never seem to find. When you feel like you are getting close to what you desire the most sp plays a sabotaging role with doubts, hesitations, an urge to protect yourself, an unwilling force to make us keep our guard, to make us think maybe this is not -it- so when you fall under this and take a step back temporarily you think, this is not what I wanted so I am good I will know when it feels right, this was mediocre at best, I will find that intensity but that doesn't stay, it wears off and you are craving and longing ever more than before and in agony of the chances you have missed or cravings you weren't replied to. In the end it is what you live for, sx/sp is not the same as being sx/soc/sp, not even close but the intensity and how we view things are mutual.

An sp first would never think this way. I replied this to the person for an attempt to explain the pull of sp to a sx, like I said I experience the whole thing more emotionally and what keeps me up at night is to be honest my sx cravings

There is a reason why soc/sx lives for soc first concerns and dreams of being that guy who everyone looks up to, who influences crowds, who is always wanted in groups but they screw it up and they feel uncomfortable in group settings.

You should honestly read each pairing, you will see what I mean


----------



## Gorgon

mimesis said:


> How much volatility, adventure or connection do you think is at least required to be satisfied, for Sx to be less of an obsession?



That's a very good question. There is a strong instinct to cling to the self (as you've mentioned) and to cocoon myself. My lifestyle is similar to a hermit's: isolated, studious, and minimalistic. I love it and hate it. I love not answering to anyone, the space I have, and the freedom of movement. At the same time, it is constricting in a way. When I withdraw for too long, I get restless and obsess about the aforementioned things you've said. When my depression was at its worst, I would act out in self-destructive ways to both cope and to satisfy my sx-cravings. At the time, both instincts were unhealthy (and maybe still are).

I probably should tell you that I had terrible acne and acne scars, so for a very long time I withdrew even more into myself. I abstained from developing romantic relationships and sex because I thought I was too ugly. This whole dynamic created a lot of longing, obsession, hate, and rage.


----------



## drmiller100

Thanatesque said:


> \
> I probably should tell you that I had terrible acne and acne scars, so for a very long time I withdrew even more into myself. I abstained from developing romantic relationships and sex because I thought I was too ugly. This whole dynamic created a lot of longing, obsession, hate, and rage.


yeah, i had that. then i hit college. and BLOSSOMED.


----------



## mimesis

nichya said:


> @mimesis
> 
> It feels as if you are talking of sx as an independent element, I was talking about being sp second to sx first. So my emphasis was on the pull. Not every sx first have the same exact nature, you should check sx/sp together it is an entirely different form.
> 
> I do crave intensity, like I said I want to burn bright and fast, I am in a constant longing and desire, and yes many times it is what makes me go out of my comfort zone "for the sake of the 'rush' when the boundaries of 'Self' are -temporarily- transcended" I want to experience everything in an intense form or it will do nothing for me. I always -crave- for something, some form of intensity that I never seem to find. When you feel like you are getting close to what you desire the most sp plays a sabotaging role with doubts, hesitations, an urge to protect yourself, an unwilling force to make us keep our guard, to make us think maybe this is not -it- so when you fall under this and take a step back temporarily you think, this is not what I wanted so I am good I will know when it feels right, this was mediocre at best, I will find that intensity but that doesn't stay, it wears off and you are craving and longing ever more than before and in agony of the chances you have missed or cravings you weren't replied to. In the end it is what you live for, sx/sp is not the same as being sx/soc/sp, not even close but the intensity and how we view things are mutual.
> 
> An sp first would never think this way. I replied this to the person for an attempt to explain the pull of sp to a sx, like I said I experience the whole thing more emotionally and what keeps me up at night is to be honest my sx cravings
> 
> There is a reason why soc/sx lives for soc first concerns and dreams of being that guy who everyone looks up to, who influences crowds, who is always wanted in groups but they screw it up and they feel uncomfortable in group settings.
> 
> You should honestly read each pairing, you will see what I mean


Yes soc in that case is more persistent when "something's gotta give". And obviously he would feel a rush too when experiencing influencing crowds or desired in groups. Intensity itself doesn't measure strength of instinct, because for someone with a strong disposition to shame, being naked would feel more intense than a shameless person. 

How would schizoid personalities type you think?

"Guntrip described the schizoid's inner world thus: "By the very meaning of the term, the schizoid is described as cut off from the world of outer reality in an emotional sense. All this libidinal desire and striving is directed inward toward internal objects and he lives an intense inner life often revealed in an astonishing wealth and richness of fantasy and imaginative life whenever that becomes accessible to observation. Though mostly his varied fantasy life is carried on in secret, hidden away."
The schizoid person is so cut off from outer reality as to experience it as dangerous. It is a natural human response to turn away from sources of danger and toward sources of safety. The schizoid individual, therefore, is primarily concerned with avoiding danger and ensuring safety"


----------



## nichya

mimesis said:


> Yes soc in that case is more persistent when "something's gotta give". And obviously he would feel a rush too when experiencing influencing crowds or desired in groups. Intensity itself doesn't measure strength of instinct, because for someone with a strong disposition to shame, being naked would feel more intense than a shameless person.
> 
> How would schizoid personalities type you think?
> 
> "Guntrip described the schizoid's inner world thus: "By the very meaning of the term, the schizoid is described as cut off from the world of outer reality in an emotional sense. All this libidinal desire and striving is directed inward toward internal objects and he lives an intense inner life often revealed in an astonishing wealth and richness of fantasy and imaginative life whenever that becomes accessible to observation. Though mostly his varied fantasy life is carried on in secret, hidden away."
> The schizoid person is so cut off from outer reality as to experience it as dangerous. It is a natural human response to turn away from sources of danger and toward sources of safety. The schizoid individual, therefore, is primarily concerned with avoiding danger and ensuring safety"


I see but I think there is the difference, we or -I- personally don't completely shut off, I do seek for it, hope and crave for it to become reality as well, so having this internally is not enough for me and it is not that I have this internally that I shut off and want to live there but I have a vision of what I want and I want it externally and in reality as well but I can not find it or when I do I have hesitations to whether it is -the exact thing I crave for- or if I really want this. It is very very different than what you have described. Imagining -even for an INFP- is not enough, we want it, we seek for it in reality. I don't want to be safe but sp for me is having a conscious that tells me I can not blindly jump in when I am restless and want to jump in. 

It is a battle, sx is more powerful and likely to win but never without a fight, and if sp wins it never is a glory as you don't find what you been looking for

here, check the pairings Socionics - the16types.info - Instinctual Stackings

sx/sp
Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.
*This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. *They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. _*Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. *_Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. _*Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander.*_ May be prone to self-medicating.

Expression: intense, self-absorbed expression
Energy: intense energy expressed calmly, steadily, assertively
Behavior: intense, assertive, troubled and self absorbed
Mindset: "If I can make (us) have an orderly & pleasing lifestyle, I can keep up and escalate all this merging/intensity."

Blind spot: _Likely to neglect their desire to maintain physical saftey, comfort, and an orderly lifestyle for the sake of their primary concern of seeking intense connections and experiences, in average-healthy levels._ (personal note: that is why I said my sx is strong or perhaps I am just unhealthy whatever it is) May not have an awareness of the need to connect in a broader sense with the world, of a sense of security or in groups or of the need to seek it, or even of the need to foster approval, support, and understanding of themselves within groups they are connected with, often causing misunderstandings with allies, supporters, friends, and family members.

Examples of sx/sp: Prince, Carl Jung, Johnny Depp, Ozzy Osbourne, Johnny Cash, Joan Crawford, Princess Di, Marilyn Monroe, Janis Joplin, Frollo from “Hunchback of Notre Dame”


----------



## mimesis

Thanatesque said:


> That's a very good question. There is a strong instinct to cling to the self (as you've mentioned) and to cocoon myself. My lifestyle is similar to a hermit's: isolated, studious, and minimalistic. I love it and hate it. I love not answering to anyone, the space I have, and the freedom of movement. At the same time, it is constricting in a way. When I withdraw for too long, I get restless and obsess about the aforementioned things you've said. When my depression was at its worst, I would act out in self-destructive ways to both cope and to satisfy my sx-cravings. At the time, both instincts were unhealthy (and maybe still are).
> 
> I probably should tell you that I had terrible acne and acne scars, so for a very long time I withdrew even more into myself. I abstained from developing romantic relationships and sex because I thought I was too ugly. This whole dynamic created a lot of longing, obsession, hate, and rage.


I've been plagued with that too, so I can relate to the tendency to withdraw. I've cancelled events because of it. But more often I've thought "fuck that", not wanting to miss out on something and *sacrifice* my sx needs and urges. 

Though experience learned that for some reason people either didn't see it, or weren't bothered by it as much as I'd thought. I think it made a big difference that at some point I accepted the physical body I was given, and given the change in response since, it appearred self-acceptance has a strong (sexual) appeal, which you might call charisma. I would strongly recommend that, even if only because there's not much you can do about it. 

My sx seems pretty much insatiable. Don't think I could answer that question myself, but it was the obvious question after the first one.


----------



## CaptSwan

I can feel it in me... Bubbling in there, burning and craving liberation and destruction; like having the French Revolution inside me. The part of me that sees to the highest parts of Heaven and even manages to get a glimpse at the Father of All; the other part that drags me to the deepest, darkest, most terrifying corners of my soul with the sole purpose of torturing me, like it successfully does in the dead of night; when the laughs, the words, the love and hatred of the world have gone to sleep. I lie there, rolling in my bed; hearing the words of fire and pain that he spews to destroy me... hearing the words of peace and calmness that he says to comfort me. One, as pristine as the swan in my signature; the other one, a savage that destroys anything in its path; myself included. They're both out there, wrecking my soul apart; tearing me to pieces, while I stand there and see that dance of death and life, of peace and war... of love and hatred. They both live inside me and, my present sadness has shown them to me for the very first time, in HD and Dolby sound. Fighting for the fate of my soul, for their grip on my mind... for the ruling of my spirit. With every clash; I can see them merge into one, little by little, they fuse together, along with every bit of me that they tear apart. Splats of each of them rain upon me; cleaning and corrupting me... lifting me to the presences of the ethereal and burning me with their merciless iron. I know I can stop that clash at any second, with the snap of my fingers; but, I don't want to. Uniting with them... Feeling that peace and war in me; it's far too seductive and pleasant... too punishing and torturing to resist it. Does there need to be only one? Is it possible for us to merge into one magnificent and chaotic creature? "Stop fighting and merge with them; let us to be a single entity, a single organism... Not a being of pure light and peace; nor an entity of pure darkness and anger; we crave to be something more..." yells my being, craving that moment of pain and ecstasy; when the fight stops, when we're ready to be one. That day is closer, with each day that passes by; I can feel it in my bones, in my flesh and in my loins. God have mercy on this world when that day comes...


----------



## Gorgon

The more I think of him, the more my desire burns. The distance between us is a painful yet oddly enticing challenge like an attainable yet hard to get prize. When we are together, it's like eating a ripened fruit. Both of our souls collide and our passions clash and ignite. There's no I, there's no him, there's even no we. Just an energized, amorphous field of intensities and affects. I feel so natural around him; there's no pretense or judgment. We just are.
@CaptSwan

Your post reminds me of this pic that my friend sent me:
http://http://res.cloudinary.com/femininefusion/image/upload/v1420392134/light_dark_gjcgfa.jpg

The bottom part got cut off so it would've said, "Life is about creating balance, not suppressing your good, not suppressing your bad, for one cannot exist without the other, embrace them equally."


----------



## Gorgon

Here's one of my archived "poems." This is me when I'm pissed off lol.



"Death Instinct"
She craves the taste of blood
And the intensity of violence
She seeks no penance
And has no regrets
Her death instinct prevails
And she knows what that entails
All she seeks is destruction
And annihilation
She self-forgets
Numbing everything
Except her lust for physical and psychological intensity
Never quite exceeding her capacity
She desires more dangerous pleasures
Ready to go to more severe measures
Enough with the repression
Through with sublimation
She’s ready for full expression
Life and death face each other
Like two sides of a coin
Regardless of which side it lands
The two will conjoin

She lives for nothing but to terrorize
The hapless souls that cross her path
Alluring, but toxic
Those who meet her
Meet the loving hand of eternal torment
Her embrace comes with spikes
Her touch comes with infection
Her kiss comes with disease
She doles out her revenge
Eventually making the world into her image
How will this end?


----------



## CaptSwan

Thanatesque said:


> The more I think of him, the more my desire burns. The distance between us is a painful yet oddly enticing challenge like an attainable yet hard to get prize. When we are together, it's like eating a ripened fruit. Both of our souls collide and our passions clash and ignite. There's no I, there's no him, there's even no we. Just an energized, amorphous field of intensities and affects. I feel so natural around him; there's no pretense or judgment. We just are.
> 
> @_CaptSwan_
> 
> Your post reminds me of this pic that my friend sent me:
> http://http://res.cloudinary.com/femininefusion/image/upload/v1420392134/light_dark_gjcgfa.jpg
> 
> The bottom part got cut off so it would've said, "Life is about creating balance, not suppressing your good, not suppressing your bad, for one cannot exist without the other, embrace them equally."


Thank you for the image and the phrase, I really appreciate them and; I've come to realize that it's what I need to do in order to find my own peace. I hope I can soon announce the birth of that new entity; of that new me.

BTW, I know poems are a private thing; but, I sincerely hope you continue to share them over here; I just read the one you posted and I've got to say I really enjoyed it. You've got a good writing style and; well... I liked your poetry a lot :happy:


----------



## Gorgon

CaptSwan said:


> Thank you for the image and the phrase, I really appreciate them and; I've come to realize that it's what I need to do in order to find my own peace. I hope I can soon announce the birth of that new entity; of that new me.
> 
> BTW, I know poems are a private thing; but, I sincerely hope you continue to share them over here; I just read the one you posted and I've got to say I really enjoyed it. You've got a good writing style and; well... I liked your poetry a lot :happy:


I hope the same for you as well. Part of the road to self-actualization is recognizing and affirming every aspect of your being, which it appears you have, or on the way to doing that. While these facets do exist in ourselves, actually confronting them can be a throttling experience to the point that one's foundations becomes entirely shattered (I would say this depends on the degree to which someone obscures certain aspects of themselves and/or how dissociated they are from themselves). Your sentiments indicate a need to transgress boundaries, to venture into new territory, a reinvention of the self (as you mentioned), and reconceptualizing how you view yourself. It's like a revolution of the self: the old paradigm is outdated, regressive, and constricting. It's time to smash that, and start anew. Now that you've encountered this catalyst, it's now a questioned of how to productively channel that energy.

And thank you for the kind words. :happy: I might share more of my writings in the future.


----------



## Eclipsed

The spark I saw in him grew into a fire today. I was not wrong. I was not blind. I was not _weak_ for believing in him.

I met up with him with the intention of finally purging him from my mind, and I expected nothing. After all, you can't be disappointed if you expect to be disappointed, right? But there wasn't even any need for that. He exceeded all of my expectations. For the first time ever, we had an honest conversation- and it was one of the best conversations I've ever had with anyone in my life.

I don't even care if his affections are entirely mine at this point. I just want him in my life. _This _is the person I thought I could fall in love with. He exists. That is enough for me. I can't say for sure that I won't want to have him to myself at some point, but that's a problem for another day.

I'm happy right now and I intend to soak in every blissful second of it. I felt understood. I felt important. I felt like myself. What more can I really ask for?


----------



## CaptSwan

Thanatesque said:


> I hope the same for you as well. Part of the road to self-actualization is recognizing and affirming every aspect of your being, which it appears you have, or on the way to doing that. While these facets do exist in ourselves, actually confronting them can be a throttling experience to the point that one's foundations becomes entirely shattered (I would say this depends on the degree to which someone obscures certain aspects of themselves and/or how dissociated they are from themselves). Your sentiments indicate a need to transgress boundaries, to venture into new territory, a reinvention of the self (as you mentioned), and reconceptualizing how you view yourself. It's like a revolution of the self: the old paradigm is outdated, regressive, and constricting. It's time to smash that, and start anew. Now that you've encountered this catalyst, it's now a questioned of how to productively channel that energy.
> 
> And thank you for the kind words. :happy: I might share more of my writings in the future.


Thank you very much for the advise; I really appreciate it. And, that's where I'm standing presently, trying to find out how to mold this new entity into the truest, most real expression of myself I can be. Free from my current chains; which are hopefully to be broken really soon :happy:


----------



## drmiller100

CaptSwan said:


> I hope I can soon announce the birth of that new entity; of that new me.



I believe we grow in little bits and pieces, and then something happens (usually not positive) which causes to take a huge step up along the path of growth.

When we take the big step up, it is really uncomfortable and uneasy, and sometimes we take a step back for a bit, collect our balance, and try again. Once we take the step up, we are committed, and soon enough we are at the new level.

There is ALWAYS a next level if we want. Most people plateau out at some point. Some people keep struggling all their lives, wasting life in growth, never happy, never satisfied, never content with what they have reached.


----------



## CaptSwan

drmiller100 said:


> I believe we grow in little bits and pieces, and then something happens (usually not positive) which causes to take a huge step up along the path of growth.
> 
> When we take the big step up, it is really uncomfortable and uneasy, and sometimes we take a step back for a bit, collect our balance, and try again. Once we take the step up, we are committed, and soon enough we are at the new level.
> 
> There is ALWAYS a next level if we want. Most people plateau out at some point. Some people keep struggling all their lives, wasting life in growth, never happy, never satisfied, never content with what they have reached.


Thank you for your words and advice. It's how I feel this entire process has been; and, it's why I feel the most satisfied with the way things have turned out so far. Because, this entire process I started a couple of years ago, has led me to feel prepared for the challenge I have ahead of me now. And, I have yet to see how the new change in my life will affect me; but, I'm very confident it'll be for the best.


----------



## drmiller100

Crushing pretty major on her.

I don't have to turn my intensity down, I don't have to slow down, I don't have to hide parts she can't handle; I can just be me.

And she is plenty strong to push back when I underestimate her. Yes, I'm working on that. 

Seems like forever, seems like yesterday.


----------



## mimesis

GhostShadow said:


> But are you always switching between them, or do they work in tandem with each other?
> 
> (in regards to the theory)
> 
> I imagine, they co-exist within us at all times, leading to strange outward manifestations, that are perhaps hard to always point to.
> 
> Sort of like a magic 8-ball, maybe?


I don't know what you mean with the magic 8-ball, but I think you could say all instincts are innate behavior patterns. There are differences on a genetic level, for instance certain genes identified and linked to serotonine, oxytocin or dopamine receptors in the limbic system, that are involved with behavior patterns which could be attributed to Sp, So or Sx instinct. However, whether or how it plays out may still depend a lot on environmental factors, like social learning. It's said to be one of the reasons why certain animals in captivity may reject their offspring. 

Also, you may find the lines between instincts are more blurred. Serotonin is found in animals to be involved in both perception of food availability as well as social rank (inhibiting fleeing behavior in subordinates but enhancing fight-flight response in dominant or isolated animals). You might call the first response 'withdrawal/resignation' or 'self-effacing' and the latter 'assertive'. Both is inborn behavior, but it might explain the difference between stereotype sp4 and sp7, depending on the underlying disposition of (social) inferiority or superiority, imprinted early in life. I'd prefer that explanation over 'Id-type', as I'm sure sp7s would withdraw too, given circumstance. 

Oxytocin is a hormone that is involved with social recognition, social bonding, in-/out-group behavior, empathy, trust, romantic attraction, sexual arousal /stimulation. Intranasal administration of Oxytocin increases envy and schadenfreude. Research has also shown how attachment style moderates the effect on social behavior and cognition, where only individuals with low avoidance attachment style would display more social affinity and cooperation after administration of Oxytocin, and only participants with high avoidance would faster detect neutral faces or expressions of disgust. Which suggests it's perhaps not so much a 'blindspot' as it is 'tunnel vision', and a biased perception confirming negative expectations/preconception. 

So anyway, there's all kinds of dynamics thinkable, the dynamic between instincts (compromising or in conjunction) or each instinct and passion (hence counter-passion) and the type's cognitive perspective that extends to both wings, while it also may shift in direction of integration and disintegration. In which case I wouldn't say traits are 'adopted' as often is described -which suggests alien or inauthentic behavior or not innate as opposed to core traits- because I think these are inborn as much as the traits that are attributed to core type.


----------



## knife

There is nothing quite like the loneliness you feel when you become close to someone and they just stop being there ... a loneliness like a collapsing dream ... a loneliness when you realize that you are _never_ going to get what you want, what you really want ...






A loneliness that makes you only feel _lonelier_ when you try to socialize ...


----------



## Gorgon

I never want settle. What I mean by that is that I never want to actively and prematurely terminate my journey towards self-improvement. I don't want to ever be complacent, stagnate, helpless regardless of the situation at hand. Paradoxically, through growth, I'm forever a child. Forever making new strides and discoveries. The awe and wonder of a child are probably what keep me going.


----------



## Animal

Every inch of my body screams for you. I am crawling up the walls. This is epic. Animal is hungry.


----------



## HellCat




----------



## Superfluous

Do people know what the fuck to do anymore? Not asking this like a questioning sophomore in college thinking about majors but just looking to around and seeing everyone is full of bullshit on default and I think I'm beginning to actually be a little tired of it - ironic enough because I haven't began to even wade in it. And not in the pompous way but in the kind of exasperated awe where it's like, the world cannot be seriously be roaming of people like this, controlling things like this, manipulating things like this, dumbly stirring things into the brink of utter hollowness, a negative nirvana if you will and I'm just staring at this abyss that is of society and I just can't fucking do it. I can't lunge into these waters, I'm sorry Bradley Nowell but no I am not a _bad fish_ too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chesire Tower

* *




I tried to post this in the SX music thread and eventually, I just gave up. >_<


----------



## Rala

Superfluous said:


> Do people know what the fuck to do anymore? Not asking this like a questioning sophomore in college thinking about majors but just looking to around and seeing everyone is full of bullshit on default and I think I'm beginning to actually be a little tired of it - ironic enough because I haven't began to even wade in it. And not in the pompous way but in the kind of exasperated awe where it's like, the world cannot be seriously be roaming of people like this, controlling things like this, manipulating things like this, dumbly stirring things into the brink of utter hollowness, a negative nirvana if you will and I'm just staring at this abyss that is of society and I just can't fucking do it. I can't lunge into these waters, I'm sorry Bradley Nowell but no I am not a _bad fish_ too.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So I read "Do people know how to fuck anymore?" instead of "Do people know what the fuck to do anymore?" at first. Finished the whole paragraph. Didn't know what to make out of it. Reread the first sentence, and awkwardness set in. XD


----------



## Superfluous

But seriously, _do_ people know how to fuck anymore????????


----------



## Chesire Tower

Oops, wrong thread.

:redface:


----------



## HellCat

Rala said:


> Oh, don't you just love his character? XD For me, this show has it all.


I love a good psychopath in literature but the violence feels senseless and the puzzle is too easy. 

I keep having to turn it off every few episodes because of my anger when an innocent is randomly killed. 

I am trying to find a reason to stick with the series but I have violent urges towards the innocent young crazy bitch and the creepy reporter who bugs her eyes out like shes coked up. I did not realize film could get me so riled and murderous.


----------



## CaptSwan

A new thing is born. Strangely, just like my first birth; this one occured ahead of time. Except this time, I get to choose everything about it. From my name to how I choose to show myself to the world and what I embrace and refuse. Captain Swan; my embodiment for over a decade; whom I chose to be the representation of what I considered to be the purest qualities of myself... is no more. Now, it's time to answer my age-old question... 






Sophistication and rawness, love and lust, peace and war; all intwined into one entity. I'm Savage Swan; and, I'm here to stay.


----------



## cinnabun

Histrionic Personality Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central

Reading this makes a lot of sense.


----------



## CaptSwan

xdollie said:


> Histrionic Personality Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central
> 
> Reading this makes a lot of sense.


I came here to see if I could still edit my post and add something; but, I'll take a time to say that, it's always nice to see people find out stuff and reading information beyond MBTI or Enneagram that can help them understand themselves or those around them. Frankly, it's something you don't see often in this kind of forums. I hope the info you've found helps you get to know yourself a bit further.


----------



## cinnabun

CaptSwan said:


> I came here to see if I could still edit my post and add something; but, I'll take a time to say that, it's always nice to see people find out stuff and reading information beyond MBTI or Enneagram that can help them understand themselves or those around them. Frankly, it's something you don't see often in this kind of forums. I hope the info you've found helps you get to know yourself a bit further.


That wasn't about me, it was about someone I know, unfortunately.

But it does explain a lot about them.


----------



## CaptSwan

xdollie said:


> That wasn't about me, it was about someone I know, unfortunately.
> 
> But it does explain a lot about them.


Oh, I see... Sorry for the mix up  But, at least you now have information that can help you be more understanding of that person and be able to build a bridge of understanding. Usually, people who have to deal with people with mental disorders just lash out at them; acting cruelly and disregarding what those other people might be going through. It's very mature of you to not sink to the levels I've seen people act out with people with mental issues.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Savage Swan said:


> Oh, I see... Sorry for the mix up  But, at least you now have information that can help you be more understanding of that person and be able to build a bridge of understanding. Usually, people who have to deal with people with mental disorders just lash out at them; acting cruelly and disregarding what those other people might be going through. It's very mature of you to not sink to the levels I've seen people act out with people with mental issues.


That is so true. You would think, that on a place like Personality Café; that people would have more compassion for the struggles and issues of their fellow PerCers but I witness it, time and time again; how people keep on projecting their issues on to others and sometimes even make them a collective scapegoat and it really needs to stop. I'm just glad that people in this thread see the error of that kind of thinking and are above falling prey to that.


----------



## Kintsugi

I really need to keep those fiery bonds alive (somehow) and remember the passion I shared with people. *makes note to self*

It's a bit like a really juicy and flavorsome boiled sweet (candy). You keep sucking and sucking, because the flavor is so intense. Yet, when the flavor starts to dull, you are left with this sickly-sweet sugary taste in your mouth that you just wanna spit it out in the bin, and reach for another sweet (candy) in the packet.

I need to learn to pace myself.

Also, that totally sounded like a euphemism for something else. 

I suck (no pun intended) at the whole metaphor shizzle. I should just quit now before it's too late. xD


----------



## Kintsugi

Savage Swan said:


> Oh, I see... Sorry for the mix up  But, at least you now have information that can help you be more understanding of that person and be able to build a bridge of understanding. Usually, people who have to deal with people with mental disorders just lash out at them; acting cruelly and disregarding what those other people might be going through. It's very mature of you to not sink to the levels I've seen people act out with people with mental issues.


While this is true I still think it's important for people to validate themselves and their experiences. My mother most likely has some kind of personality disorder and for years I invalidated myself because I wanted to be that compassionate person. The truth is, I didn't allow myself to feel my pain or, most importantly, I didn't give myself the space to grieve.

It's a complicated issue and a painful process but compassion can only really come after you have found a place where you can comfort yourself and accept your own traumas.


----------



## cinnabun

Savage Swan said:


> Oh, I see... Sorry for the mix up  But, at least you now have information that can help you be more understanding of that person and be able to build a bridge of understanding. Usually, people who have to deal with people with mental disorders just lash out at them; acting cruelly and disregarding what those other people might be going through. It's very mature of you to not sink to the levels I've seen people act out with people with mental issues.


Well, it depends. I'm patient with people for so long. If someone has an issue, and can admit that, yet they don't seek help, I lose respect for them. Also, some people with mental health disorders can be very toxic, and I feel like they can hide behind their health problems as a way to be destructive. I don't have time for that.


----------



## Kintsugi

xdollie said:


> Well, it depends. I'm patient with people for so long. If someone has an issue, and can admit that, yet they don't seek help, I lose respect for them. Also, some people with mental health disorders can be very toxic, and I feel like they can hide behind their health problems as a way to be destructive. I don't have time for that.


You remind me a lot of me.

Honestly, all I can offer right now is that you need to just screw what others say and concentrate on processing your emotions. You probably want validation, I get that, but people are both ignorant and harsh, they can't fully understand or accept your experience, so screw them for even trying (I'm serious).

Take yourself away and concentrate on yourself. Withdraw from the external madness.

I'm probably not making much sense, to be fair, I'm a little intoxicated.

Just know that, your feelings are YOURS. It doesn't matter how dark, retched or destructive they are; they need to be expressed.

They need to be seen/validated. 

They want to know that they exist....that they matter.


----------



## cinnabun

Kintsugi said:


> You remind me a lot of me.
> 
> Honestly, all I can offer right now is that you need to just screw what others say and concentrate on processing your emotions. You probably want validation, I get that, but people are both ignorant and harsh, they can't fully understand or accept your experience, so screw them for even trying (I'm serious).
> 
> Take yourself away and concentrate on yourself. Withdraw from the external madness.
> 
> I'm probably not making much sense, to be fair, I'm a little intoxicated.
> 
> Just know that, your feelings are YOURS. It doesn't matter how dark, retched or destructive they are; they need to be expressed.
> 
> They need to be seen/validated.
> 
> They want to know that they exist....that they matter.


Damn girl, damn. Preach!

I know, you're absolutely right. That's what I'm doing right now. I've dissociated with the bs around me, and now I'm just focusing on me.

You know what they say, if you have people hating on you (especially batshit ones), then your'e doing something right.


----------



## Kintsugi

xdollie said:


> Damn girl, damn. Preach!
> 
> I know, you're absolutely right. That's what I'm doing right now. I've dissociated with the bs around me, and now I'm just focusing on me.
> 
> You know what they say, if you have people hating on you (especially batshit ones), then your'e doing something right.


lol, yeah.

Don't worry, though. It's all good.

Find your own "truth" in the madness. That's all that really matters.

Remember that humans are really fucking complicated. It's actually one of the things that makes our species so interesting; our diversity and ability to transform ourselves. I'll never be bored with humans, lol.

All I can say is, be kind to yourself....you are only human. 

Take care <3


----------



## Eclipsed

I gave up on myself a long time ago.

Without my rapid manic-depressive cycles to keep me motivated, I don't think I have a will to live anymore. The only thing I aspire to do these days is escape from myself because it's too painful to live without external stimulation. I need the noise. I need to block out my thoughts so that I don't completely cease to function.

Any feelings of excitement or elation that I get these days are all pretend. I'm destroying my life, just as I always have, and honestly, I hardly care anymore.

There's nothing I want nowadays except to satisfy my immediate desires and impulses. I've stopped trying to control them altogether because I don't see the point. I don't care what happens to me from here on. I've always been doomed. At least I've started accepting it.


----------



## CaptSwan

Kintsugi said:


> While this is true I still think it's important for people to validate themselves and their experiences. My mother most likely has some kind of personality disorder and for years I invalidated myself because I wanted to be that compassionate person. The truth is, I didn't allow myself to feel my pain or, most importantly, I didn't give myself the space to grieve.
> 
> It's a complicated issue and a painful process but compassion can only really come after you have found a place where you can comfort yourself and accept your own traumas.


Exactly. One can't possibly try to be of help without being in a place solid enough to do so; and that involves comforting yourself, accepting your emotions and traumas. I hope you were able to succeed in dealing with your mom on a level.

@_xdollie_

Yeah, toxicity is a fairly common problem with people who have mental health issues; along with issues like denial, projection and other mechanisms that allow them to perpetuate their fantasies and delusions of grandeur; where they stand on an ivory tower while the rest of them just spew lies, cheat and conspire against them. Unfortunately for me, I've had the "pleasure" of knowing people like that close to home and see them operate. They do stuff like gaining people's sympathy and pit people against each other just to "earn their affection", use emotional manipulation and blackmail to keep people on their side. So, I get what you must be going through; and, I hope you're able to work out that issue with that person.


----------



## Rala

LeoCat said:


> I love a good psychopath in literature but the violence feels senseless and the puzzle is too easy.
> 
> I keep having to turn it off every few episodes because of my anger when an innocent is randomly killed.
> 
> I am trying to find a reason to stick with the series but I have violent urges towards the innocent young crazy bitch and the creepy reporter who bugs her eyes out like shes coked up. I did not realize film could get me so riled and murderous.


I agree, the violence is a little too in your face. The series are too good to stop watching because of that, though.


----------



## Animal

Sometimes the only solution is to bash your head into the wall repeatedly until you either bleed to death or wake the fuck up from this nightmare...


----------



## Dalton

Animal said:


> Sometimes the only solution is to bash your head into the wall repeatedly until you either bleed to death or wake the fuck up from this nightmare...


Smoking crack might be a little safer.
Smoking crack ONCE might be a little safer.

Crack addiction, probably not so much.


Just realized that "crack" could be a pun for what you're doing to your skull.


----------



## Superfluous

*OBI-WAN:* I have failed you, Anakin. I was never able to teach you to think. 

_ANAKIN and OBI-WAN confront each other on the lava river. _

*ANAKIN:* I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over . . . 

*OBI-WAN:* From the Sith!!! Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil. 

*ANAKIN:* From the Jedi point of view! From my point of view, the Jedi are evil. 

*OBI-WAN: Well, then you are lost!* 

*ANAKIN:* This is the end for you, My Master. I wish it were otherwise. 

_ANAKIN jumps and flips onto OBI- WAN's platform. The fighting continues again until OBI-WAN jumps toward the safety of the black sandy edge of the lava river. He yells at Anakin. _

*OBI-WAN:* _It's over, Anakin. *I have the high ground.* _

*ANAKIN:* You underestimate my power! 

*OBI-WAN:* Don't try it. 

_ANAKIN follows, and OBI-WAN cuts his young apprentice at the knees, then cuts off his left arm in the blink of an eye. ANAKIN tumbles down the embankment and rolls to a stop near the edge of the lava. 

ANAKIN struggles to pull himself up the embankment with his mechanical hand. His thin leather glove has been burned off. He keeps sliding down in the black sand. _

*OBI-WAN:* (continuing) . . . You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would, destroy the Sith, not join them. It was you who would bring balance to the Force, not leave it in Darkness. 

_OBI-WAN picks up Anakin's light saber and begins to walk away. He stops and looks back. _

*ANAKIN:* I hate you! 

*OBI-WAN:* You were my brother, Anakin. I _loved_ you. 

_ANAKIN'S clothing blows into the lava river and ignites. Suddenly ANAKIN bursts into flames and starts SCREAMING. 

OBI-WAN looks in horror as ANAKIN becomes engulfed in flames. OBI-WAN can't watch him as he struggles to climb the embankment, covered in flames. _


----------



## drmiller100

I'm crabby today. been mentally kicking a few stupid people. *(it kind of does make me feel a bit better...........)*


----------



## Gorgon

Since I've entered into a new relationship and with the progression of the summer semester, I've had a shift in my psychological paradigm. I'm more optimistic, confident, empathetic, and a lot less angry, resentful, and hateful. I've taken a short academic sabbatical, and this break has given me a new sense of purpose and a newfound energy. This change in events has greatly affected my psychological state, and while that's great, I do fear that I might resort back to my old ways once this honeymoon reaches it's termination. I hope that I'll be able to keep myself resilient. Life consists of external events and internal affects, however it's our internal reactions that give our lives their unique hues. The paradigm that I was operating under only brought me more negativity, pain, and stagnation. Of course, this does not mean I will quell my passion. Rather, it'll be expressed in more productive ways. Recognizing what doesn't work is only part of the battle, finding what actually works is another story.

According to Gurdjieff and Ouspenksy, the self is made up multiple selves or "I's." This multiplicity of I's stem from our interaction with the world. Not all of these selves necessarily belong to u (particularly the negative parts). To believe that the self is an unified whole is a tragic mistake. Such a paradigm leads us to believe that since we're whole, there's no need to discover the uncovered aspects of ourselves. Why work at something that we already have? Moreover, it makes us become attached to the negative parts of ourselves making it harder for us change our ways. The goal is to destroy our personality which obscures our true essence. Once we do this, the self becomes unified, and once that occurs our will becomes more solidified rather than having conflicting wills of the multiple selves.


----------



## CaptSwan

In this post and the following are 2 little pieces I've been working on, at the push and inspiration of someone close to me. Good or bad, I cannot say; all I can hope is that, for a few minutes, your imagination they take away.

This first one is inspired in a photo I saw recently, of a woman who struck my mind and inspired me to write this piece.

Obsidian Eyes

Dark windows, black lights
Shining like beacons, making me blind
Seductive gaze, embracing warmth
Crushing my soul, burning me whole

Floating heart, hangman’s gold
Chain of love, chain of hope
Sign of pleasure, sign of pain
Hating and craving to have its spot.

I swore to myself, in the depth of night
That my heart, no woman would have.
Alas, my crime and fate, same as Icarus was
I flew too close to you; I melted my wings with your light

You snuck up on me, turned me into your slave
Hourglasses come, hourglasses go
You’re all my feverish mind can hold
My fire you own, my death you cause.

I see you smile, I hear you laugh
All my mind can see, when the world’s asleep
How can one woman, make a savage’s heart beat?
How can one goddess, carve a wound so deep?

Dark windows, black lights
Shining like beacons, making me blind
Hating your grip, longing your touch
Hopelessly enslaved to your sight
To those obsidian eyes that make me lose my mind.


----------



## CaptSwan

This second one, is the eternal story of one person torn between 2 lovers... It was inspired by 2 sources. The first one happened while watching the night sky and seeing 3 stars aligned and, how 2 of them in opposite directions shined with intermitent strength, like they were trying to seduce the star in the middle. The second source was my eternal love of archetypes, particularly the figures of the jester and spectre; which hold a strong meaning to me.


The Feud

Once shined a star, up in the sky
Burning brighter than Venus or Mars
Others stars envied her light
They desired to have, the mute star’s might.

Mortals, spirits and luminaries called upon her
Begging for her sight, to shower in her light
Mortals for millennia, her favor have desired
Distant in the sky, she glowed so bright

Unbeknownst to lesser beings, beneath her fire
Her mind and soul, were troubled and conflicted
Under her light, a sad heart to admire
For 2 knights her heart had conquered.

Stella magna in the sky
Burning star, shining desire
Distant star, unreachable longing
Burning and craving, for Europa’s sight

Chaos and order, your heart tear apart
A mortal stares up to the sky and sees
How the jester and the spectre for your love vie
A mortal sees the spectacle your love unleashes

Jester of order, jailer of her heart
Made of tin, made of clockwork
Only materials capable of resisting
The mighty star’s wrath and fire

Phantom of chaos, contender for her love
Follows his whim and desire, a spirit of wind
Listening to your tune, Pied Piper
Magna has found a beat her heart can dance to.

Two warriors fight, for the love of a star
Who amongst them shall win this fight?
Odds I dare not to cast, fellow mortals
For a star’s desire, no force can command.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Be grateful for your real friends; never ever take them for granted and cherish them like the treasures they are.


----------



## Sygma

To all the brothers and sisters who can't attack from the front


----------



## Gorgon

I feel like I'm riding high and I'm just waiting for it to come crashing down. But, that's probably not the best way to approach it. Just like hope (at times, not all the time), paranoid pessimism only leads to more disappointment but in a self-fulfilling prophecy type of way. I've been making progress so to take a step or a couple of steps back is just not on the agenda. I feel more clear-headed and equanimous. Even when things get tough, I hope to keep this level of level-headedness. The things I've learned in the past few months were not just for nothing.


----------



## Animal

I have finally won the lifelong battle against my pride. I have fallen to my proverbial knees and exposed this open wound. I can't help but wonder, now, what is left of me? My pride has always been the one thing stronger than my feelings. It is arguable that this confession required willpower beyond any I have harnessed before. Perhaps I have proven something to myself, that my will is stronger than my shame and my pride. But I wonder, sometimes, what was the point? What is the point of making myself vulnerable if I am not strong enough to let go and move on?


----------



## drmiller100

Animal said:


> I have finally won the lifelong battle against my pride. I have fallen to my proverbial knees and exposed this open wound. I can't help but wonder, now, what is left of me? My pride has always been the one thing stronger than my feelings. It is arguable that this confession required willpower beyond any I have harnessed before. Perhaps I have proven something to myself, that my will is stronger than my shame and my pride. But I wonder, sometimes, what was the point? What is the point of making myself vulnerable if I am not strong enough to let go and move on?


because you are ALIVE, and the feelings are so fucking intense and the love so powerful and even the pain of maybe it not working out is better than the numbness, the emptiness of what it was before without hope. 

Maybe this is not meant to be, but I did my god damnedest, and it wasn't enough right now, but I was honest, and I was vulnerable, and I tried. And I'll work on me some more, and perhaps someday...

And the other person was honest, and was vulnerable, and she did her damnedest as well. And I want her happiness,and I want mine, and maybe that means we are not. 

WE ARE FUCKING ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Chesire Tower

Animal said:


> I have finally won the lifelong battle against my pride. I have fallen to my proverbial knees and exposed this open wound. I can't help but wonder, now, what is left of me? My pride has always been the one thing stronger than my feelings. It is arguable that this confession required willpower beyond any I have harnessed before. Perhaps I have proven something to myself, that my will is stronger than my shame and my pride. But I wonder, sometimes, what was the point? What is the point of making myself vulnerable if I am not strong enough to let go and move on?


I've actually suffered from having the exact *opposite* problem; I've suffered time and time again from not having *enough* pride. I'm so terrified of being like some people I know who allowed their pride to mess up a valuable enduring connection; that I go too far in the opposite direction. I am (or have) been such a firm believer in giving people a second, third, fourth, etc. chance, that I keep getting stepped on an taken advantage of in the process.


----------



## Animal

I lose everything I love. I hurt everyone I love. My passion is fierce and fiery but deadly. Poison, danger, blinding to the eye. It eats me alive from within and burns a deeper hole every moment, every hour, every day. There is nothing left.

My message to those who love me: please do not worry about me. Do not make excuses for me. Just love. Love yourself, love the world. I will not physically damage myself. I cannot _live_ like this, but I will survive. I may regenerate and live once again, but please do not invest too much hope in me. I make no promises. For once in my life I believe there are people who care about me, and so I will take it upon myself to apologize for being this way, because it must be painful to watch. I am sorry. I am driven to push everyone away, to spare you. But it seems that would only hurt you more. I cannot be rescued, I cannot be changed. But I have never been able to resist feeling my pulse and breathing life when I encounter _love_. So please, remember - all you can do for me is love. Love yourself and the world. Whether you care about me or not, your light will inspire me. Distance from me if you must, and nurture your own light. I know you will be there if my soul comes back. Thank you for caring, for breathing, for lighting the way. I am fortunate to have so much love in my life. The light in my heart is dim, and it may fade. But until I am dead, there is always possibility of a better future. There are mornings upon mornings when I may awaken, new and alive. It may be tomorrow, next year, or next decade. I cannot be something I am not, today; but as long as I breathe, nothing is permanent.


----------



## drmiller100

@Animal,

what is left when the kilns have completed is your essence. In that, you will find passion, love, and hope. 

There are people who care, who will be watching and cheering, but you must do the work, and it is worth it.

It is beautiful to watch, it is your pain, your joy, your life, your love.

We care.


----------



## Eclipsed

The problem with growth is that it's so gradual you can't tell if you're moving forward at all.


----------



## Gorgon

My anger and sadness were part of my identity and I made a whole ethos out of it. I filtered my outlook and relationships (or lack of thereof) through these emotions. They were just veils for my envy and insecurity. My anger especially was a defense mechanism. I set myself against the world, and was even willing to be the villain to affirm my identity. It gave me a sense of vicious passion and violent conviction. It also brought me a false sense of strength. I was so focused on revenge, violence, and power. This was who I was and this is how it is. Through self-work and a change in circumstances, my anger and sadness have neutralized, changing my psychological paradigm. I'm less angry and sad, and more positive and confident. I've gained more wisdom and became more effective in navigating the world. The old paradigm I was operating under only brought more negativity and pain and only fueled my anger, sadness, loneliness, and hatred. I was rotting from the inside. While I'm calmer and more levelheaded, sometimes I miss the volatility and the extreme bloodlust (it's still there, just more tempered). But when I look back at my old self, those emotions did nothing for me. I did nothing productive with them, nor was I able to do anything productive.

I'm starting to see what non-attachment feels like. It's odd really. I'm starting to feel more synchronized with life's ebbs and flows, there's less of a need to control or withdraw from my external and internal environment. Ironically, through passivity I feel more in control. My mind and body are on autopilot, but not in a mindless kind of way. There's this intuitive and instinctual understanding of life's undercurrents. It's liberating. I feel like I'm starting over. I can forge a new identity.

The more accepting I am of myself, the more accepting I am of others.


----------



## galactic collision

yesterday I asked my mother what I was like as a child and she told me that I always was and continue to be very intense

she also said that although we get along now, she and I used to fight a lot because I wanted my independence and saw her as controlling

which is very observant of her and scarily correct...wth


----------



## Bathilda

star tripper said:


> An sx-last! Yes! Welcome, my dear!
> 
> How do you feel when an sx-dom probes you?
> 
> (INFP 9w8 so/sp) invites it to an extent because she thinks her boundaries should be pushed (though not completely destroyed), and she admires my open nature and wants to move toward it at her own pace.
> 
> Tangents aside, what are some insights you can provide from interacting with sx-doms?


I'm definitely more like your 9w8 friend. I admire the openness of Sx-doms, and I spend a lot of time in social situations trying to get into a conversation with them so we can talk about fascinating things. There are plenty of things I *want* to talk about, but the pressure of social appropriateness (you can't talk about that here! You'll make them uncomfortable!), sp (must protect boundaries!) and Five (I'm not ready to talk about this! More data!) keep them under wraps. But when someone asks directly, it's like a free pass to finally say what I want. 

Where I do run into trouble with sx-doms is when the desire for 'connection' is either aggressive--"How can you vote for X?! or What happened in your childhood to make you think that?!"--or blatantly self-serving, where they want to pour out their problems and have no real desire to listen to what I say. Once a lady cornered me in the laundry room and told me all about her schizophrenic son and her depression and her meds for two hours...but I think that's more desperation than sx. 

Sometimes I've had problems with sx-doms oversharing or asking me personal questions _in the middle of a professional situation_, or getting super involved in a conversation with me and not noticing that they're leaving another person out, or making others uncomfortable. Aggression is The Worst. My first priority is making sure everyone is having a good time and feels welcome. But, in general, I don't mind it when the full instinct gets turned on me--it's refreshing and intriguing! I guess the only advice I would give is "setting matters." If a server is waiting to take your order, or if I'm clearly exhausted, or if my boss is listening, please stop asking about my relationship problems;-)

I don't know what Brea's like--if it were a bad neighborhood, or if someone we were with were tired or sick or in a bad mood, I'd side with your sp/so friend. Same if, instead of a magic shop, you said, "Do you think that loud nightclub over there is open?" My answer would be "absolutely f*cking not". For a magic shop in an ok neighborhood, though? Yeah, I'd be totally up for an adventure--I'd just be exhausted by midnight (but that's not my variant!. I've slept in plenty of bus stations over the years, and it makes for good stories. 

[Also, sorry to interrupt your confessions thread! Thanks for welcoming me.]


----------



## star tripper

Bathilda said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm definitely more like your 9w8 friend. I admire the openness of Sx-doms, and I spend a lot of time in social situations trying to get into a conversation with them so we can talk about fascinating things. There are plenty of things I *want* to talk about, but the pressure of social appropriateness (you can't talk about that here! You'll make them uncomfortable!), sp (must protect boundaries!) and Five (I'm not ready to talk about this! More data!) keep them under wraps. But when someone asks directly, it's like a free pass to finally say what I want.
> 
> Where I do run into trouble with sx-doms is when the desire for 'connection' is either aggressive--"How can you vote for X?! or What happened in your childhood to make you think that?!"--or blatantly self-serving, where they want to pour out their problems and have no real desire to listen to what I say. Once a lady cornered me in the laundry room and told me all about her schizophrenic son and her depression and her meds for two hours...but I think that's more desperation than sx.
> 
> Sometimes I've had problems with sx-doms oversharing or asking me personal questions _in the middle of a professional situation_, or getting super involved in a conversation with me and not noticing that they're leaving another person out, or making others uncomfortable. Aggression is The Worst. My first priority is making sure everyone is having a good time and feels welcome. But, in general, I don't mind it when the full instinct gets turned on me--it's refreshing and intriguing! I guess the only advice I would give is "setting matters." If a server is waiting to take your order, or if I'm clearly exhausted, or if my boss is listening, please stop asking about my relationship problems;-)
> 
> I don't know what Brea's like--if it were a bad neighborhood, or if someone we were with were tired or sick or in a bad mood, I'd side with your sp/so friend. Same if, instead of a magic shop, you said, "Do you think that loud nightclub over there is open?" My answer would be "absolutely f*cking not". For a magic shop in an ok neighborhood, though? Yeah, I'd be totally up for an adventure--I'd just be exhausted by midnight (but that's not my variant!. I've slept in plenty of bus stations over the years, and it makes for good stories.
> 
> [Also, sorry to interrupt your confessions thread! Thanks for welcoming me.]


I think I get it. So pointers for sx-doms interacting with so/sp:

- Social context is mui importante.
- Ease into it. Don't just go straight into, "Is it because you were abused as a child?"
- Give and take. Don't just drop your life story on people and walk away.

I gotta admit even though I do try to include everyone, if someone has caught my eye, I momentarily forget there are other people in the room. I don't totally forget, but it's like background noise, I guess? You do sound a lot like my 9w8 friend. She's brushed on some of those points before, though I've never connected it to the social instinct the way you have (never occurred to me to look at it directly through a social lens <lightbulb!>).

Well... none of us really actually knew whether or not Pasadena was a bad area. That was the fun of it! In my head. Actually, whether or not it was a bad area hadn't really occurred to me until now. 

[What you said in brackets is so so-dom. I just had to point that out.]


----------



## Bathilda

star tripper said:


> - Ease into it. Don't just go straight into, "Is it because you were abused as a child?"


This made me laugh so hard I spit out my drink. Yup, sums it up! Also I'll be living in Pasadena for a few months next year for work, so it's awesome to know there's a magic shop.



> [What you said in brackets is so so-dom. I just had to point that out.]


Oh good! I go back and forth on my stacking and it's good to get external confirmation


----------



## galactic collision

throughout my entire life~

someone else: i love being held by a man, it makes me feel so safe and secure...
me: lol...........wha_t_

(reading this post back it makes it sound like i don't want to be held by a man.......i do, but have never understood the idea of wanting to feel safe in someone's arms? what the ??? always felt very out of the loop on that one.............also i'd rather be held by a woman than a man, but what_ever_, at this point i'll take what i can get)


----------



## HellCat

I miss climbing, gymnastics, fighting and dance so much from being pregnant. I used to swim five hours a day from early spring until end of winter in Florida, I can live without my underground pool here in Europe. He makes up for it just being him. The decline of my athleticism is driving me mad. I got an aerial yoga hammock and stirrups to hang up as soon as I am able to get back into my workouts. After that. another pole. 

I never realized how dangerous scheming and manipulative I am until someone tells me I cannot have something I want. Comparing myself to my saintly type 1 sister that my brother is trying to turn into a 6w7 like him I can see just how I get my bad reputation. Now if I could just use my ability to get my brother to face his turtle whore wife and see that if someone lies to you. They don't love you. To see there is a difference between someone who mindfucks you a little over intellectual games and someone who just fucks all your old friends and puts you into an emotional turmoil with her toxic ways.

He once told me he admired her because she reminded him of me. But shes pretending to be intelligent, she cannot even fix a computer or use proper english. She is pretending to be a fighter- I have sparred her many times and she only won because I won't hit girls. I only beat up men. I am so tall and toned that it feels like cheating in a fight with the human incarnation of Velma from scooby doo-minus the smarts- dumpy, soft, coke bottle lenses. Who can hit someone who looks like Velma that comes up to your chin. Certainly not me.

Hes created this image of her he stubbornly clings to of her being a dedicated mother- she ignores her kids and forgets to feed them, martial arts, weapons savvy hacker chick when she does not even know how to change the fan in her box. When I told him he could do better he went nuts on me. My brother looks like Leonardo Dicaprio before Leo started wearing a feminine bun and an amish beard *Howard hughes, the departed era). Women stalk him in public trying to get his eye. Staying with someone because they were the breed mare for your kids is a sad excuse of a life. 

Basically a 2w3 xfsp who is pretending to be a submissive 6w7 intx. Its the performance of her lifetime. 

No word from him since I showed him the evidence he could not dismiss. He went so far as to suggest my brother in law would write up months of fake chats on gmail and irc to tear apart his marriage.

My self examination started when my exhusband went nuts on me July 4 and called me a scheming manipulative bitch who the turtle whore said tried to tear apart her marriage. Funnily enough he also tried to accuse me of tearing up his engagement. His exfiancee has come to me for a bit of wisdom on how to deal with his stalking. I did not convince her to dump him though however we warned her precisely a year ago that he was turning into the Joker. Hes been controlling her with suicide threats. I convinced her to block him and if he kills himself, well hes been threatening it 15 years and still has not done me any favors so its unlikely. Poor kid. I thought he reformed but as soon as he got that diamond on her finger. He transformed back into Mr Hyde. Started micromanaging everything she does/says and wore. 

Pretty sure its a matter of time before the madman and velma the turtle get caught in bed by my brother or niece. She fancies herself Harriet the spy so.. who knows who will do the catching. It will be a hilarious clusterfuck.

My pity is gone.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

just for the spark said:


> (reading this post back it makes it sound like i don't want to be held by a man.......i do, but have never understood the idea of wanting to feel safe in someone's arms? what the ??? always felt very out of the loop on that one.............also i'd rather be held by a woman than a man, but what_ever_, at this point i'll take what i can get)


Yeah, I... don't have much experience with romance and intimacy, so can't speak from experience much, but can't say the idea of feeling safe in someone's arms arouses me. It's funny because I am a bit of a wuss (and do like security), but the idea of being safe and secure isn't what draws me to a relationship. Idk if it's similar to your reasons for being weirded out, but


----------



## drmiller100

welcome back leocat


----------



## galactic collision

Distortions said:


> Yeah, I... don't have much experience with romance and intimacy, so can't speak from experience much, but can't say the idea of feeling safe in someone's arms arouses me. It's funny because I am a bit of a wuss (and do like security), but the idea of being safe and secure isn't what draws me to a relationship. Idk if it's similar to your reasons for being weirded out, but


Yeah, exactly. I feel like for me it's in part due to me being SP-last and in part due to me being a Seven. Independence is big for me, so I feel I don't NEED someone else to make me feel secure. And security seems to me like something someone with SP higher in their stacking would want. I definitely appreciate having security, but it's not in my top ten list of words I think of when I think about what I want. 

And in a relationship I am more interested in the passion than the safeness? Why you would ever want to feel safe (as your primary emotion) in a relationship I have no idea. Safety is boring. It's...staying in, knitting and watching old Oprah episodes and then going to bed at 8:00. I don't mind a night in, but God...I'd rather not spend my life chasing someone with whom to play it safe. I want to be with someone who will challenge me. Love is a high, it's a rush, it's not a security blanket. I would rather be out of my comfort zone than in it.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

@_just for the spark_
Haha, I personally do want to feel safe (and don't think I'm sp-last), except it's more... subconscious, I suppose? Like, if the person made me feel too unsafe, I wouldn't be attracted to them in the first place (although I can *then *be attracted to the idea of something... less safe, but that's because I'm safe in the first place). But it manifests more in preferring someone I find mostly "non-threatening" and cute, rather than wanting someone strong and protective. Hm.

So yeah, I would say safeness is important to me, but that's not what makes me go <3~ you know?

Edit: @just for the spark
SO basically, it's not that the safeness arouses me or whatever, but feeling safe (or at least, not feeling unsafe) makes me more receptive and able to get into what does arouse me. That might be the best way to explain it.


----------



## galactic collision

Distortions said:


> @_just for the spark_
> Haha, I personally do want to feel safe (and don't think I'm sp-last), except it's more... subconscious, I suppose? Like, if the person made me feel too unsafe, I wouldn't be attracted to them in the first place (although I can *then *be attracted to the idea of something... less safe, but that's because I'm safe in the first place). But it manifests more in preferring someone I find mostly "non-threatening" and cute, rather than wanting someone strong and protective. Hm.
> 
> So yeah, I would say safeness is important to me, but that's not what makes me go <3~ you know?
> 
> Edit: @just for the spark
> SO basically, it's not that the safeness arouses me or whatever, but feeling safe (or at least, not feeling unsafe) makes me more receptive and able to get into what does arouse me. That might be the best way to explain it.


Of course I'd rather not feel unsafe - I've never been attracted to the "bad boy" or whatever it is that girls are supposed to like lol - but safety isn't a big motivator for me. I mean I'm not interested in dating someone who creeps me out or makes me feel UNsafe, but I don't need someone to be my security blanket. Is what I think I'm trying to say. Non-threatening, sure...but I'm not like, "I love having a man's arms around me... it makes me feel so not-threatened." :crazy:

So I think we're on the same page! I just wrote my last post pre-coffee so I don't think I explained it right.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

just for the spark said:


> So I think we're on the same page! I just wrote my last post pre-coffee so I don't think I explained it right.


Hm yeah. Sounds like it. Still think it was best to clarify that it's not a case of "I don't need anyone's protection" or "YEAH danger, and you know.

Haha, I can still find some "bad boys" attractive... in fiction. >_> In real life, not so much.


----------



## galactic collision

Distortions said:


> Hm yeah. Sounds like it. Still think it was best to clarify that it's not a case of "I don't need anyone's protection" or "YEAH danger, and you know.
> 
> Haha, I can still find some "bad boys" attractive... in fiction. >_> In real life, not so much.


Unrelated but worth mentioning: I love that you have a Next to Normal quote in your signature. I disagree with the quote itself (though I can see its merits) but I love that show. Pretty brilliant, and of course incredibly beautiful and moving.


----------



## Animal

I love how I can ramble about my fucked up past to my partner and he completely understands me and never makes presumptions. I never thought anyone could accept me the way I am, with my past, my ramblings and art about sadness in my past, my longing and whining about it, my worries about not being good enough in some ways, my illness, my pain. He loves all of it. I never thought it was possible for someone to see me for all of what I am in the first place, let alone love it. I love all of him too <3 <3 I feel honored to hear about his problems and strife and blessed to be subject to his inspiring outlook. And I truly believe that anyone who dislikes him needs to have their ass kicked. Because he is such a beautiful person and if you can't appreciate unadulterated fierce, fiery beauty, why do you even exist?


----------



## star tripper

@just for the spark

Do you think they mean emotional safety and security? Perhaps it's the notion that one dons a different face in front of everyone, but with that person, they can leave it in a jar by the door.


----------



## Chesire Tower

I wonder if it is at all realistic to hope that I can ever overcome my SX/SP issues or IOW: my desire for intense connections and be able to handle my extreme fear of engulfment at the same time?

:grey:


----------



## d e c a d e n t

just for the spark said:


> Unrelated but worth mentioning: I love that you have a Next to Normal quote in your signature. I disagree with the quote itself (though I can see its merits) but I love that show. Pretty brilliant, and of course incredibly beautiful and moving.


It is pretty cynical, and I don't think it's _necessarily _true for most, but I do like the quote. And I suppose... I can have a bit of a "fear" of it myself. Also it's funny. =P

Yeah, I like the show a lot. Been listening to the soundtrack quite a few times.

"And the man has forgotten his reasons, but the man still remembers his vow." <That part is so sad though. Of course that's the point, but >_<



star tripper said:


> @_just for the spark_
> 
> Do you think they mean emotional safety and security? Perhaps it's the notion that one dons a different face in front of everyone, but with that person, they can leave it in a jar by the door.


Hm, that's a point. There is something lovely about the idea that you can finally let down your guard/open up to one person. I'd say I'm pretty open myself though, so not something I relate to.


----------



## Animal

It feels trite to say "my boyfriend" or "my partner" when he is my soul mate.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Animal said:


> It feels trite to say "my boyfriend" or "my partner" when he is my soul mate.


To me, "boyfriend" sounds kind of childish, while "partner" is kind of... well, it doesn't sound that intimate I suppose.


----------



## Animal

Distortions said:


> To me, "boyfriend" sounds kind of childish, while "partner" is kind of... well, it doesn't sound that intimate I suppose.


Haha yeah. But if we were married at any point down the line, even "husband" would not cover the intimacy and understanding that comes so automatically to us. What we share is beyond contracts and papers and even commitments. *Creates new word*


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Animal said:


> Haha yeah. But if we were married at any point down the line, even "husband" would not cover the intimacy and understanding that comes so automatically to us. What we share is beyond contracts and papers and even commitments. *Creates new word*


Why not soul mate? >_>

And well, husband is kind of meh as well indeed. But then marriage is more of a... formal thing? Contracts and papers like you said. Not necessarily very "romantic."


----------



## enneathusiast

Animal said:


> I love how I can ramble about my fucked up past to my partner and he completely understands me and never makes presumptions. I never thought anyone could accept me the way I am, with my past, my ramblings and art about sadness in my past, my longing and whining about it, my worries about not being good enough in some ways, my illness, my pain. He loves all of it. I never thought it was possible for someone to see me for all of what I am in the first place, let alone love it. I love all of him too <3 <3 I feel honored to hear about his problems and strife and blessed to be subject to his inspiring outlook.


Ah, when SX finds what it's been looking for (someone to appreciate and share the essence of type with). Good for you. It may still be too new but over time I hope you'll share how this impacts the type 4 energy for you (I'm guessing that it'll begin to soften after looking for expression for so long and finally finding someone to share that with - at least that was what happened for me with my type).


----------



## Animal

enneathusiast said:


> Ah, when SX finds what it's been looking for (someone to appreciate and share the essence of type with). Good for you. It may still be too new but over time I hope you'll share how this impacts the type 4 energy for you (I'm guessing that it'll begin to soften after looking for expression for so long and finally finding someone to share that with - at least that was what happened for me with my type).


Hehe. I have thought about this as well.. I am curious to see it myself! I am so grateful that he knows me and sees me and accepts me as I am.. and that I can post my honest feelings without being policed and misunderstood and causing fights. It is a wonderful feeling to be loved for who I am and not have to worry that this post might be "Too much" or that sentiment might be taken the wrong way. So.. that said, I am confident my true thoughts and emotions will be posted over the course of time. I love posting them here. And I will also be noticing how it impacts my artwork, writing, music.

I used to be afraid the artistic energy would just deplete if I was happy, since my work tends to come from conflict and heartbreak and longing. But at this point I have a whole fantasy series mapped out that will take years to write, and a few music albums written which will take a lot of time and money to record. So if I never write anything new in my life, my work is still cut out for me. I'm sure I'll write new stuff and reflect as I have done this all my life, but I am not worried about losing that muse anymore, since I already have more work ahead of me to finish my projects than a person could possibly do in a lifetime.


----------



## Ace Face

Something, something, something, passion. I am teh sx first.


----------



## fawning

Ace Face said:


> Something, something, something, passion. I am teh sx first.


Your signature says it all.


----------



## enneathusiast

@Animal

I'm guessing he's SX first as well. From how you describe it I'd be surprised if he weren't.

A side effect of an SX-SX relationship for me was that I became much more appreciative and interested in her type. In fact, after a while of sharing what I wanted to for so long, I became content in just sharing in her interests without feeling any overwhelming urge to share my own. Whereas in the past with other relationships, I'd feel like it was all one way (I'd share in my partners interests but they wouldn't reciprocate).

I didn't lose the benefit of my type though. I mostly just lost much of the anger, resentment, impatience, disgust, etc. toward myself and the world for not being able to express it and that feeling of being deficient or unappreciated because of it softened as well.


----------



## johnnyyukon

My dick has made far too many decisions in my life. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## drmiller100

johnnyyukon said:


> My dick has made far too many decisions in my life.


LOL I have no concept of what you speak.


----------



## johnnyyukon

drmiller100 said:


> LOL I have no concept of what you speak.


Is that sarcasm? How is it that one ENTP isn't sure of sarcasm in another ENTP? The sky is falling, man!








(my guess is, you knowwhati'msayin)


----------



## drmiller100

johnnyyukon said:


> Is that sarcasm? How is it that one ENTP isn't sure of sarcasm in another ENTP? The sky is falling, man!
> 
> (my guess is, you knowwhati'msayin)


Smiles...... we're both sure.

Smiles.....


----------



## HellCat

Scelerat- You don't have a morality, you have a shifting and highly situational conscience. Over time "normal" people develop patterns so you can estimate their reactions to a circumstance. You.. have a series of fucking multiple choice questions.

You came across a man with his hands around a womans throat. Do you 
A. Stop him and save her.
B. If she has a bad spirit and deserves it.. help him kill her.
C. Help her kill him. 
D. ? 

The closest philosophical stance I could argue you belong to would be something like amoral deontological ethics. 

Apparently I scare my husband. Because I don't dwell on the morality of actions. Yep, He just called me lawful evil when I said I think I lean towards chaotic neutral.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

drmiller100 said:


> Smiles...... we're both sure.
> 
> Smiles.....



Let at me in on this. Why I outta.....


----------



## nichya

Distortions said:


> Why not soul mate? >_>
> 
> And well, husband is kind of meh as well indeed. But then marriage is more of a... formal thing? Contracts and papers like you said. Not necessarily very "romantic."


well the society convention, hence boyfriend, partner, husband...I did not feel my ex was my boyfriend, although he would refer to me as girlfriend, I think I have used my ex or ex boyfriend more after it ended to refer to his relation to me later on when I talk to another. Never felt right.

Then I met my soulmate, didn't end up with him, but it felt so easy and right.

I don't know where do I go from here, I can't try and see, ever, I can not even consider people telling me they are interested and they consider of me more. I see noone else.
Sigh.


----------



## Animal

nichya said:


> well the society convention, hence boyfriend, partner, husband...I did not feel my ex was my boyfriend, although he would refer to me as girlfriend, I think I have used my ex or ex boyfriend more after it ended to refer to his relation to me later on when I talk to another. Never felt right.
> 
> Then I met my soulmate, didn't end up with him, but it felt so easy and right.
> 
> I don't know where do I go from here, I can't try and see, ever, I can not even consider people telling me they are interested and they consider of me more. I see noone else.
> Sigh.


May I ask why you didn't end up with him?

Sorry if that's intrusive.. feel free to ignore me.

It makes me very sad


----------



## nichya

Animal said:


> May I ask why you didn't end up with him?
> 
> Sorry if that's intrusive.. feel free to ignore me.
> 
> It makes me very sad


Universe, people intervening, miscommunication, him being hot and cold, me being hot and cold sensing something has changed, him thinking he is rejected, me trying to find a sweet spot between caring too much and my pride, jealous other parties, his rushing and his torn in betweenness causing me act fierce then this causing him act out of frustration and to get a reaction. I didn't react.

Well things are different now, he can play his role forever and carry his duties but he is detached and cold, he began to freak out because of his responsibilities, given to him and him agreeing to, but now he is waking up to see that he has been pretending for too long and noone is there while seemingly he has it all, I think he knows it too, as he has told I am different and others just don't feel the same. Well his late moves make me feel bittersweet, perhaps it is the venus retrograde in the past weeks because he didn't have to make public moves, now I am more than ever sure he knows it too but he is too much of a coward. Well it is on him and partially me and the universe that we will never have it.

cryptographic much?


----------



## Animal

nichya said:


> Universe, people intervening, miscommunication, him being hot and cold, me being hot and cold sensing something has changed, him thinking he is rejected, me trying to find a sweet spot between caring too much and my pride, jealous other parties, his rushing and his torn in betweenness causing me act fierce then this causing him act out of frustration and to get a reaction. I didn't react.
> 
> Well things are different now, he can play his role forever and carry his duties but he is detached and cold, he began to freak out because of his responsibilities, given to him and him agreeing to, but now he is waking up to see that he has been pretending for too long and noone is there while seemingly he has it all, I think he knows it too, as he has told I am different and others just don't feel the same. Well his late moves make me feel bittersweet, perhaps it is the venus retrograde in the past weeks because he didn't have to make public moves, now I am more than ever sure he knows it too but he is too much of a coward. Well it is on him and partially me and the universe that we will never have it.
> 
> cryptographic much?


Somehow.. I had a feeling you would say something like that. 

I had a similar situation with my first love. Until about two years ago, I could never get over him. I always knew he loved me but we were both too traumatized at the time. I thought I'd never find anything like that again, and I basically gave up, walled off and turned into a lusty, undead vampire sucking the life from the living by the time I was 18. If I couldn't be with him, the closest I could get to love was lust. I eventually did have real feelings for someone again about a decade later, but I always felt like it wasn't the same, wasn't as real, he dind't love me, I envied him more than I loved him. But at least I could feel again. In the decade since then I have been more human, but still completely without hope that I could ever love anyone the way I loved my first love. Finally I contacted him about two years ago, and we talked everything out and I felt a sense of closure with it. Not that I stopped loving him or cherishing what we had, but I guess now that we grew up and have different lives, it just didn't feel right anymore for us to be together - even if we both tremendously cherish the past. It cleared out my heart... but I still didn't think I could ever love anyone else the way I loved him. Lo and behold I met my current boyfriend, and it is even more amazing. The soul connection was deeper immediately and the communication was better immediately. It remains that way. There is no comparison between him and my first love, really... I mean, my first love is also a beautiful person and I'm not taking that away, and what we had was incredible especially at such a young age.... but what I have with my current "soulmate.." it's just.. so much more. Like we are cut from the same cloth, fallen from the same home planet, risen from the same ashes, despite tremendously different struggles and experiences. We just _get_ each other. We handled tremendous difficulties within the first few weeks, and the communication never faltered. What we have is pure beauty.

When you find something like this, nobody will be hot and cold. Believe me, there is hope. I thought there wasn't. Only two months ago I had no hope at all.

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...rants-vents-rages-purges-84.html#post15059370


----------



## Animal

I finished book 1 of my fantasy series!
Starting book 2 now!

The sexy male hero in book 2 has been my ultimate fantasy man for more than a decade, but my man is much sexier. How can I write the romantic scenes with the same enthusiasm I had before? 

Grr 
You are evil


----------



## Daeva

Animal said:


> I finished book 1 of my fantasy series!
> Starting book 2 now!
> 
> The sexy male hero in book 2 has been my ultimate fantasy man for more than a decade, but my man is much sexier. How can I write the romantic scenes with the same enthusiasm I had before?
> 
> Grr
> You are evil


Or maybe you'll be even more inspired now?!

... Grrr


----------



## Animal

Boogie man said:


> Or maybe you'll be even more inspired now?!
> 
> ... Grrr


Evil.. inspiring me to make my characters_ impossibly_ sexy


----------



## drmiller100

Almost all of my writing is non-fiction......

Just sayin....


----------



## galactic collision

star tripper said:


> @just for the spark
> 
> Do you think they mean emotional safety and security? Perhaps it's the notion that one dons a different face in front of everyone, but with that person, they can leave it in a jar by the door.


I can appreciate that. I crave having a person I can be freely myself with, and feel okay with sharing my feelings without being judged or feeling like the walls are closing in on me or whatever... I guess in that way, I'm interested in having "safety" in a relationship, although even as I say it I'm backing away... it just sounds so boring in theory. I'd like to feel safe from judgment in a relationship, but I don't need to feel like I'm being protected from anything. My demons are internal, they can't be found elsewhere. They're MY demons, and it's a privilege to be the person I share them with. That said, for me it's a privilege to have someone I trust enough to share them with too.

So yeah. If it's that, I get it.


----------



## Animal

ningsta kitty said:


> Sx confession here: reading bits here and once again, type 4's scare the bejesus out of me. With all their heavy emotions and deep violent rages lol, good lord!! I'm intellectually monogonous and could give a rats ass if my SO got his groove on elsewhere so long he had his reasons and I was made aware shortly thereafter (though preferably prior that it was necessary to be open). Emotionally I'm into one person only but it's more of an intellectual feel than some deep emotional feel (I kinda equate both the same as I experience it). Idk - type 4's and type 9's are insane scarey. Like, they're possessive I want to claim your freedom as opposed to a silent pact of a partnership to go through life. I like being able to talk about things like people I've met (including people I'm fond of) and I like to hear about the other persons experience too. I see it more like a team, partnership experience. Like, trust and loyalty with respect of freedom and autonomy. Type 4's and type 9's .. You belong with each other in your melting pots of crazy. Truly one of those made for each other type things because from my perspective you're insane and totally irrational and foolish. (Not condemning saying the word foolish. Just I would never choose partners the same way so it's just foolish in my mind).
> 
> Bottom line: y'all crazy. With your slashing tires and keying cars and 30 something year old temper tantrums claiming each other. You said, he said, we were, I thought. Yikes! Dishes crash in the sink, where were you, I thought you loved me, you smell like bubblegum or where's my left sock or who's bra is this - violent rage. Good lord! This that and the other DRAMA. Like no good drama. Lol! I'm just being imaginative right now. I see every type 4 in some weird high school sucking on each other's face in public or some weird after school special on how Johnny knocked up Kathy and together they learn the importance of waiting. It's just too much.


I think this is a misrepresentation of type 4.

First of all I've always been a great student and a responsible employee who moves up fast in a job, however mundane the job is. My house is clean, and I do the dishes, including other people's dishes. I've managed an apartment full of people where I did most of the cleaning and other dirty work and paperwork. I've never slashed a tire or keyed a car in my life, nor destroyed anyone else's property in any way, and I have no idea what that has to do with being a 4. I've never been "knocked up" and don't use vocabulary like that either, to describe something as beautiful as pregnancy. (That said, I've not been pregnant or had any STDs either). I am monogamous, in every way, but I love hearing about my SO's past, and I would have no problem if he told me details, even sexual details. Just the other day I was telling him I love hearing if he thinks another woman is hot, because it's another way to get to know him.. his taste, what turns him on etc. We check out beautiful people together! I am not jealous over petty things like that. It would be nearly impossible to get a reaction out of me after a breakup. My go-to reaction is "you no longer exist to me." People have followed ME and stalked ME and tried to cause drama, but I nip it in the bud and end the bullshit fast. That has always been the way of things. I have real problems like chronic illness and no time for petty drama. 

Grouping type 9 with melodramatics and craziness ... I have _no clue _where that comes from... it's completely counter to anything I have ever learned, read or experienced with type 9.






> And here I am with my guy I'm digging making small chat, making the poor guy jump hoops so I feel comfortable. Church kisses in public and holding hands is nice. Let's play chess together or converse and talk about our experience of the day while we analyze the events like some episode of I don't even know. I wish I had comparative TV shows. It's just crazy the difference!!
> 
> I think I'm passionate, artistic and deep and authentic too. It's just that the experience is more 'tidy' in a way whereas type 4's are like Charlie Browns pig pen with their emotions all over the place!! It's like out of control! Y'all crazy! And I swear to god if I had to be in close proximity with a type 4 or 9 I would not only feel smothered but I would totally just loose my shit. Like brain aneurism snap crackle pop and die. Something like that.
> 
> And yes this was a vent because I read and think omg! This is why the world scares me!! I'm so serious -_- the world is a scary place and I have every good reason to be afraid. Y'all crazy!!


I had no idea sixes were so tidy. Also, losing your shit just because you're in close proximity wtih someone is a lot more drama than I have ever caused in my life.


----------



## petite libellule

@Animal I was being fictitious and imaginative (which I state). My feeling and experience of 4 is that 4 is an unstable force (submerged in emotions which by definition are not the most stable parts of ourselves.). I'm a fear type and while you could take my confession personal let alone seriously, you shouldn't because it's more that posts here represent rather than are seen as directive. I'm sorry but I find 9's to be suffocating and emotional and 4's to be completely dramatic and unstable. Is this bad? No. Absolutely not. However being who I am it's not my cup of tea. It triggers anxiety. It symbolizes the dark trenches of emotions. The deep needs and insatiable desires of our own psyches. All people have all 9 types w/in themselves. It's not that I don't have the desire to experience my individuality or have deep deep emotions unstable. It's that those parts of myself are disconnected and not my default (not even close) and are therefore feared. Why you would feel anything towards my post is beyond me. Why not roll your eyes and think, psh, type 6's are such babies. Or counter phobic 6's are such babies in denial. I know who I am, how I work and I'm allowed to post here too. If you vent or made confessions on how 6's irritated you or made you angry that wouldn't bother me. Probably because I'm not drowning in a world of my feelings (not that you are) just that I have to consciously place myself in my feelings. It's not my way of being (unlike a 4). Also, I in no way care how fast you move up the latter in your career. The 3 is not a trait that I'm impressed by. If anything, it's pretentiousness is annoying. Moral of the story: it's not all about you. And I see no sign that says otherwise. This thread is called what it is and I do believe my post reflected that intention.


----------



## Animal

ningsta kitty said:


> @_Animal_ I was being fictitious and imaginative (which I state). My feeling and experience of 4 is that 4 is an unstable force (submerged in emotions which by definition are not the most stable parts of ourselves.). I'm a fear type and while you could take my confession personal let alone seriously, you shouldn't because it's more that posts here represent rather than are seen as directive. I'm sorry but I find 9's to be suffocating and emotional and 4's to be completely dramatic and unstable. Is this bad? No. Absolutely not. However being who I am it's not my cup of tea. It triggers anxiety. It symbolizes the dark trenches of emotions. The deep needs and insatiable desires of our own psyches. All people have all 9 types w/in themselves. It's not that I don't have the desire to experience my individuality or have deep deep emotions unstable. It's that those parts of myself are disconnected and not my default (not even close) and are therefore feared. Why you would feel anything towards my post is beyond me. Why not roll your eyes and think, psh, type 6's are such babies. Or counter phobic 6's are such babies in denial. I know who I am, how I work and I'm allowed to post here too. If you vent or made confessions on how 6's irritated you or made you angry that wouldn't bother me. Probably because I'm not drowning in a world of my feelings (not that you are) just that I have to consciously place myself in my feelings. It's not my way of being (unlike a 4). Also, I in no way care how fast you move up the latter in your career. The 3 is not a trait that I'm impressed by. If anything, it's pretentiousness is annoying. Moral of the story: it's not all about you. And I see no sign that says otherwise. This thread is called what it is and I do believe my post reflected that intention.


I never thought it was about me. But it was a misrepresentation of 4, and 9 at that, in my view. And this is an open thread, and it is also my thread - I am the OP. And if I see a complete misrepresentation of any type, whether it's my type or not, I like to point it out. I used myself as an example of a 4 because I am a 4 and that's the type you were posting about. Had you posted misconceptions about another type, I might have said "My 3 friend" or "my 6 friend" or "I know a 7 who.." etc to write an example. I have done this at other points on the thread too.

And yes, you're more than "allowed" to post here. In fact that is up to me to decide since I am the OP - but I am happy if you vent your feelings and fears. So that is okay. But it is also against the forum rules to be typist. So I could technically report your post for that reason, but I prefer to keep my threads open and let people vent their true feelings.


As for the type 3 "impressive" stuff, my intent was not to be impressive. My intent was to point out that you painted 4s as irresponsible people who don't do their dishes and don't get anything done and they are all melodrama, and I was pointing out that it's not only typist but also completely untrue. It might confuse someone else who stumbles on this thread attempting to type themselves and sees this complete and utter misrepresentation of what 4s are like. I prefer to avoid this type of confusion on my threads by clearing it up, for the sake of the community. You may think of this as me "taking it personally," but in fact, you have no idea what I am thinking or what my intentions are.


----------



## petite libellule

Animal said:


> I never thought it was about me. But it was a misrepresentation of 4, and 9 at that, in my view. And this is an open thread, and it is also my thread - I am the OP. And if I see a complete misrepresentation of any type, whether it's my type or not, I like to point it out. I used myself as an example of a 4 because I am a 4 and that's the type you were posting about. Had you posted misconceptions about another type, I might have said "My 3 friend" or "my 6 friend" or "I know a 7 who.." etc to write an example. I have done this at other points on the thread too.
> 
> And yes, you're more than "allowed" to post here. In fact that is up to me to decide since I am the OP - but I am happy if you vent your feelings and fears. So that is okay. But it is also against the forum rules to be typist. So I could technically report your post for that reason, but I prefer to keep my threads open and let people vent their true feelings.
> 
> 
> As for the type 3 "impressive" stuff, my intent was not to be impressive. My intent was to point out that you painted 4s as irresponsible people who don't do their dishes and don't get anything done and they are all melodrama, and I was pointing out that it's not only typist but also completely untrue. It might confuse someone else who stumbles on this thread attempting to type themselves and sees this complete and utter misrepresentation of what 4s are like. I prefer to avoid this type of confusion on my threads by clearing it up, for the sake of the community. You may think of this as me "taking it personally," but in fact, you have no idea what I am thinking or what my intentions are.


*It isn't a misrepresentation. It's my interpretation. I'm not claiming my interpretation represents anything*. But for the sake of diffusing this, I'm sorry you're upset. You win. You're right. From this point forth I will say you're right for no other reason than upsetting you was not my intention or starting a debate. My intention was to purge my thoughts which I did. And I'm not wanting to dig through the garbage so we can discuss the thoughts I threw away in a vent. Make sense? .. So. You are right. You win.


----------



## Animal

ningsta kitty said:


> [bold]it isn't a misrepresentation. It's my interpretation. I'm not claiming my interpretation represents anything.[/bold] But for the sake of diffusing this, I'm sorry you're upset. You win. You're right. From this point forth I will say you're right for no other reason than upsetting you was not my intention or starting a debate. My intention was to purge my thoughts which I did. And I'm not wanting to dig through the garbage so we can discuss the thoughts I threw away in a vent. Make sense? .. So. You are right. You win.


I'm glad that upsetting me was not your intention, but actually, you didn't upset me. I just wanted to clear up the misconception that I read. It's not my intention to upset you either. So if I have done that, I apologize. It's a forum where people debate such things and there are lots of debates on this thread - not only about types, but also about the nature of people's feelings etc. This thread is generally open for challenge. And generally, if people post something on a public forum, others are going to read it and respond at will. If your intent is to post without getting any responses, there are diaries and public blogs.

But if you want to post and not get responses, there are ways to avoid this in the future. For instance, if you don't want anyone to respond, perhaps you could post at the top "Please do not respond, I don't want to debate, I just want to vent." Some people have done this, or asked people not to quote them. But if you do that, it may be a good idea to avoid insulting people, or types in general, because if that happens, people might respond anyway, to defend their concept of a type. Respect generally works best when it's a mutual thing. So if you want people to respect your stated wish not to respond, you could show respect by not insulting them or theirt type. 

Of course I am not trying to tell you what to do, but I am just making suggestions. I'm trying to avoid causing any unnecessary discomfort - yours, or anyone else's. I want you to feel free to post, but I want people to feel free to respond as well. So there is some communication here that might help in the future, to clear up your intent (avoiding debates or responses) and avoid this problem reoccurring. Communication and respect go a long way.


----------



## petite libellule

Animal said:


> I'm glad that upsetting me was not your intention, but actually, you didn't upset me. I just wanted to clear up the misconception that I read. It's not my intention to upset you either. So if I have done that, I apologize. It's a forum where people debate such things and there are lots of debates on this thread - not only about types, but also about the nature of people's feelings etc. This thread is generally open for challenge. And generally, if people post something on a public forum, others are going to read it and respond at will. If your intent is to post without getting any responses, there are diaries and public blogs.
> 
> But if you want to post and not get responses, there are ways to avoid this in the future. For instance, if you don't want anyone to respond, perhaps you could post at the top "Please do not respond, I don't want to debate, I just want to vent." Some people have done this, or asked people not to quote them. But if you do that, it may be a good idea to avoid insulting people, or types in general, because if that happens, people might respond anyway, to defend their concept of a type. Respect generally works best when it's a mutual thing. So if you want people to respect your stated wish not to respond, you could show respect by not insulting them or theirt type.
> 
> Of course I am not trying to tell you what to do, but I am just making suggestions. I'm trying to avoid causing any unnecessary discomfort - yours, or anyone else's. I want you to feel free to post, but I want people to feel free to respond as well. So there is some communication here that might help in the future, to clear up your intent (avoiding debates or responses) and avoid this problem reoccurring. Communication and respect go a long way.


Umm. There isn't a problem. This isn't the debate forum. It's a thread for venting. Which I did.


----------



## Animal

ningsta kitty said:


> Umm. There isn't a problem. This isn't the debate forum. It's a thread for venting. Which I did.


If you post on a public forum, the presumption is that people may respond. If you don't want them to respond, then you have to state it clearly, because it is common sense to assume that if someone posts in public, they are open to responses.

If you post typist remarks, you could be reported.. with good reason. And you are also inviting dissent by insulting people.

--
Please do not post typist remarks on my threads anymore. Next time I will report it.

If you post on my threads and do not wish to receive a response, please state it. But if your post is disrespectful or insulting, I would not blame anyone for disregarding your request.


----------



## petite libellule

Animal said:


> If you post on a public forum, the presumption is that people may respond. If you don't want them to respond, then you have to state it clearly, because it is common sense to assume that if someone posts in public, they are open to responses.
> 
> If you post typist remarks, you could be reported.. with good reason. And you are also inviting dissent by insulting people.
> 
> --
> Please do not post typist remarks on my threads anymore. Next time I will report it.
> 
> If you post on my threads and do not wish to receive a response, please state it. But if your post is disrespectful or insulting, I would not blame anyone for disregarding your request.


Thats your presumption. My presumption is that if someone wanted a debate, they would post in the debate forum. Otherwise if a debate ensued it's because someone challenged another's perspective and they obliged. I'm not obliging you. Thanks for sharing your perspective on my vent. I shared a fair observation based on my perception and vented how these traits scare me. I wrote it humorously and had not meant it to be taken so seriously. Again, I'm sorry you feel so upset. Clearly you are. Wasn't my intention. My intention was to vent. In a vent thread. While created by you, not belonging to you as it's a public forum. Me not wanting to debate is obviously making you angry which ironically, is the very thing that scares me which I vented on.


----------



## Animal

ningsta kitty said:


> Thats your presumption. My presumption is that if someone wanted a debate, they would post in the debate forum. Otherwise if a debate ensued it's because someone challenged another's perspective and they obliged. I'm not obliging you. Thanks for sharing your perspective on my vent. I shared a fair observation based on my perception and vented how these traits scare me. I wrote it humorously and had not meant it to be taken so seriously. Again, I'm sorry you feel so upset. Clearly you are. Wasn't my intention. My intention was to vent. In a vent thread. While created by you, not belonging to you as it's a public forum. Me not wanting to debate is obviously making you angry which ironically, is the very thing that scares me which I vented on.


I am not upset or angry. I am managing my thread and asking you to follow forum rules. Perhaps if you refuse to listen to what I am saying, and instead insist on telling me what my intentions are, I would have been better off not responding and just reporting you for typism. I am done with this conversation - have the last word. I'll mull over whether to report you or not.


----------



## petite libellule

@_Animal_ I'm blocking you. Please do the same. You're way too emotional and it is not why I'm here. I vented on this very issue and don't appreciate being called a typist by making observations you've clearly demonstrated here.

and it's not your thread to manage. It's a public forum. Seriously now.


----------



## Animal

*1. Do Not Make Personal Attacks*
Posts that serve no purpose other than to flame users annihilate the quality of discussion. Do not make personal attacks. You may critique or disdain argument and opinion posted by users, but you may not extend that method to maligning the users themselves. Do not troll or purposefully attempt to disrupt discussion in threads. Do not harass or bully other members, this includes "type-bullying" which is the persistent and unsolicited public questioning of another member's type when they have not expressed an interest.

*12. No Discriminatory Remarks*
Discriminatory remarks are unacceptable. This includes racism, sexism, offensive remarks about (or against) religion* or gender identity, physical attributes (size, height, etc.), and homophobic remarks. I'd like to take this a step further and coin a new term called typism. We will not tolerate broad generalizations and/or individual attacks that are meant to degrade by type. Joking is acceptable but should a member take offense they should ask that line of joking to stop. If it does not cease at that point, corrective actions will be taken.

Definition typism (adj. n.): 

1. A pejorative where a person is denied a service or opportunity based on their personality type. 
2. A form of discrimination and an attempt to explain, validate and excuse their negative behavior. 
3. Assigning negative or insulting stereotypes based on typology with little to no verification.


----------



## petite libellule

Animal said:


> *1. Do Not Make Personal Attacks*
> Posts that serve no purpose other than to flame users annihilate the quality of discussion
> 
> venting thread. There's no purpose aside from said such venting.
> 
> Do not make personal attacks.
> 
> I never made a personal attack. You took it personal. Not my problem.
> 
> 
> You may critique or disdain argument and opinion posted by users, but you may not extend that method to maligning the users themselves.
> 
> Thank you for your unsolicited critiquing of my vent. you may also disdain my opinions. Please however discontinue maligning me myself. My post was not about you.
> 
> Do not troll or purposefully attempt to disrupt discussion in threads.
> 
> I was not contributing towards a discussion. I was venting. In a vent thread.
> 
> Do not harass or bully other members,
> 
> *Please stop bullying me because you didn't like my initial vent.*
> 
> this includes "type-bullying" which is the persistent and unsolicited public questioning of another member's type when they have not expressed an interest.
> 
> I in no way challenged your type.
> 
> *12. No Discriminatory Remarks*
> Discriminatory remarks are unacceptable. This includes racism, sexism, offensive remarks about (or against) religion* or gender identity, physical attributes (size, height, etc.), and homophobic remarks. I'd like to take this a step further and coin a new term called typism. We will not tolerate broad generalizations and/or individual attacks that are meant to degrade by type.
> 
> I did not in no way word my post to degrade or anything else posted here.
> 
> Joking is acceptable but should a member take offense they should ask that line of joking to stop.
> 
> I believe I said my post was written humorously. I also then stopped. You've been trying to goad me into an argument which has been reported.
> 
> If it does not cease at that point, corrective actions will be taken.
> 
> Definition typism (adj. n.):
> 
> 1. A pejorative where a person is denied a service or opportunity based on their personality type.
> 
> Didn't do that.
> 
> 2. A form of discrimination and an attempt to explain, validate and excuse their negative behavior.
> 
> Nope. I pretty much clarified you took it personal which it wasn't meant to be taken that way and in no way,
> shape or form was I discriminating. Rather stated these traits are both exhausting and scary.
> Just scary you have been so invested in my one time vent.
> 
> 3. Assigning negative or insulting stereotypes based on typology with little to no verification.


I do believe you have officially verified, my observations. Thanks. Back to ignoring you now. Please do the same. I'll be reporting your post again. Please stop bullying me because you didn't like what I said and took personal offense to my humorously phrased vent. Thank you.


----------



## Ace Face

Ladies, ladies...












Animal and Chumpzilla, you both make credible points. You are both right. Chumpy, just remember that you can get in trouble for shit that is perceived as typism, and Animal, acknowledge the fact that she was venting humorously in a venting thread and didn't mean to offend or cause harm. Everything is good. No need for tit on tit violence here. The more tits we have in ship-shape condition, the better 

​


----------



## drmiller100

petite libellule said:


> , type 4's scare the bejesus out of me. With all their heavy emotions and deep violent rages lol,
> 
> 
> And yes this was a vent because I read and think omg! This is why the world scares me!! I'm so serious -_- the world is a scary place and I have every good reason to be afraid. Y'all crazy!!


Every type has examples of unhealthy people. I will agree an unhealthy 4 who is fucked up and mad and on some spiritual journey to see me dead gives me pause.

Likewise, a fucked up, insecure 8 can be a seriously manipulative, domineering asshole, and a fucked up 2 can be a manipulative, codependent self centered cry baby.

Etc. 

But there are medium healthy examples of all who are wonderful people, and there are healthy examples of all who I love to listen to and learn from.

I'm enjoying watching Animal having fun, and being happy. In times past she helped me learn the difference between a healthy 4 and an unhealthy 4. She is a pretty patient person, and a great example of a 4 who is authentic and healthy.


----------



## Rala

Ace Face said:


> Ladies, ladies...













Haha.


----------



## petite libellule

drmiller100 said:


> But there are medium healthy examples of all who are wonderful people, and there are healthy examples of all who I love to listen to and learn from.
> 
> I'm enjoying watching Animal having fun, and being happy. In times past she helped me learn the difference between a healthy 4 and an unhealthy 4. She is a pretty patient person, and a great example of a 4 who is authentic and healthy.


I have not had the same experience. I vented. I have every right to disdain qualities of people (that's often found in certain types) and I have every right to confess that those ways are scary. People don't like you what do you do? Do you throw a tantrum? This happens to me ALL THE TIME. I say I don't like a trait. And then some type points the finger and accuses me of typism. Any type can have these traits but it is written in books that these traits are commonly found in certain types and sometimes they're the corner stone of a type. So I'm not allowed to say what's been published?! Wtf. If I had a tantrum because you didn't like me, would that make you like me more? No. Most likely not. If I am not allowed to vent, purge or confess. What good is this thread!!!! I'm not appreciative that in the end. I get the slap on the hand (always) because I say the truth! I vented. She didn't like it. Too bad!!! What did she want from me??? For me to say, 'awwww I'm wrong. You're fantastic'. BS Doc and you know it. Forcing me to pander to someone's ego because it's "their thread" is bs. I tried that game when I first got on here and was called on that immediately. The user crowd here is different. While I remembered why I do come here - I'm harshly reminded why I don't. I'm not going to walk on eggshells so someone can continue feeling special. I DID NOT say all type 4's anything!!! This entire situation was BS. And I am NOT playing that game. And FTR, again, I did not nor have I had anywhere near the same experience as you. But thanks for sharing. I'm sure it had some purpose and positive intention in your mind. 

I'll no longer post in any of her threads and she's on my ignore list. 

I swear, if I get attacked for being defensive about being attacked one more time ...


----------



## star tripper

What strange escalation.

Sequence of events:
[exaggeration of unhealthy type]
[correction of exaggeration]
[EXPLOSION]

It's like premature ejaculation. 

I was gonna post a rant but I can't follow that act.


----------



## Animal

drmiller100 said:


> an unhealthy 4 who is fucked up and mad and on some spiritual journey to see me dead gives me pause.


:laughing:

"spiritual journey" 

:laughing:


haha love it.


----------



## petite libellule

star tripper said:


> What strange escalation.
> 
> Sequence of events:
> [exaggeration of unhealthy type]
> [correction of exaggeration]
> [EXPLOSION]
> 
> It's like premature ejaculation.
> 
> I was gonna post a rant but I can't follow that act.



More like playful exaggeration and it was taken seriously AND personally. 

Irritating to say the least.


----------



## star tripper

petite libellule said:


> More like playful exaggeration and it was taken seriously AND personally.
> 
> Irritating to say the least.


I sincerely didn't see either post as particularly personal. I agree your 4 characterization seemed playful, but I also didn't see her post as butthurt at all so much as dissecting the basis on which the exaggeration was built. So I'm utterly perplexed as to why this escalated so much based on those seemingly calm, low-energy posts.


----------



## petite libellule

mimesis said:


> Be honest. They? Or you mean the 4 who is your best friend, but you like to vent about when/where she doesn't meet up to your expectations?


I said someone who loves their violent rage scares me. I vented. I don't have a type 4 best friend. We stopped being friends over a year ago. I have experience with users here aside from this event that you don't know about so can't remember. But I commend you for showcasing your memory. Oh yeah. You're the guy who debated me when I reacted to a unpopular opinion about disabled kids being put to death (knowing I had one). Wow. You're amazing. Go ahead. Let's rehash it. We've argued many times before. 

Sadly however I asked to be retired. So no. You can't online bully and antagonize me again.


----------



## drmiller100

Ace Face said:


> Your conclusion is your conclusion. If you think this is what's going on, you're highly mistaken, but you have the right to believe as you will.


Smiles...... I believe you and I have a misunderstanding. I don't think there is a conspiracy going on. IF there is, I'm not part of it.

You are absolutely correct I do not understand her. I would help if I could.


----------



## petite libellule

drmiller100 said:


> Smiles...... I believe you and I have a misunderstanding. I don't think there is a conspiracy going on. IF there is, I'm not part of it.
> 
> You are absolutely correct I do not understand her. I would help if I could.



No. You wouldn't help me. You're too busy feeling accepted. if helping me meant people might not like or accept you anymore, you would no such thing. You like being the giant teddy bear softy who protects. I'm not "sweet" and loving enough for you. You need all that emotional manipulative crap to feel special. If someone just was, and chose to like you, that wouldn't be good enough. You need someone to look up to you and suck on that ego to keep you goin. I hardly think you'd ever help me. And I don't think you really want help either. You want pseudo help. This way, you don't ever have to change. (as in real change hurts and you don't let anyone tell you what to do, even though you know, you'll never tell yourself to change if it meant you had to feel vulnerable). You would never help me.


----------



## aurly

Sigh.


----------



## drmiller100

petite libellule said:


> No. You wouldn't help me. .


I think you can be an incredibly loving person. You have been a good friend to me, you have helped me in the past, you have offered good advice. You can also be a big pain in the ass. 

I ask you to please edit your post. I've done and said some things in the heat of the moment I've later thought better of, and I understand what that is like. I'm hoping you feel the same way. 

You are absolutely right I have troubles changing. I don't think I'm unique in this way, but I do believe I am trying, just like I believe you are trying. 

You know how to contact me outside this forum. I Invite you to do that if and when you are ready to talk, or would consider my help or friendship. 

D, JAG


----------



## Ace Face

"THE END"

​


----------



## Daeva

Adjectives that apply to my soulmate...

Beautiful, gorgeous, good-hearted, creative, expressive, dedicated, driven, authentic, intense, fun, playful, sexy, hotter-than-the-sun, imaginative, emotional, intelligent, rare, perceptive, assertive, lively, complex, passionate, sensitive, empathetic, electric, auditory, fiery, generous, lovely, sweet, powerful, real, adventurous, fair, genuine, vivacious, stunning, tough-as-nails-yet-sensitive-and-caring, fantastic, bad-ass, like-a-phoenix, sensual, mature, spicy, exciting, young-at-heart, erotic, bewitching, yummy, intriguing, , assured, regal, sticky(xD), majestic, graceful, @_Animal_-istic, the-one-and-only, stylish, apprehensive, stupendous, colorful, inspiring, helpful, patient, brilliant, alluring, larger-than-life, ravishing, altruistic, opinionated, raw, deep, friendly, dramatic, just-freaking-wonderful, enchanting, breathtaking, sane, soulful, direct, responsible, giving, lustful, smart, intuitive, eloquent, perfect, compassionate, pretty, idealistic, daring, one-of-a-kind, humble, super, original, quirky, eccentric, inspired,.. same species.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Spirit Animal said:


> sticky(xD)


Good to know.


----------



## HermioneG

Spirit Animal said:


> Adjectives that apply to my soulmate...
> 
> Beautiful, gorgeous, good-hearted, creative, expressive, dedicated, driven, authentic, intense, fun, playful, sexy, hotter-than-the-sun, imaginative, emotional, intelligent, rare, perceptive, assertive, lively, complex, passionate, sensitive, empathetic, electric, auditory, fiery, generous, lovely, sweet, powerful, real, adventurous, fair, genuine, vivacious, stunning, tough-as-nails-yet-sensitive-and-caring, fantastic, bad-ass, like-a-phoenix, sensual, mature, spicy, exciting, young-at-heart, erotic, bewitching, yummy, intriguing, , assured, regal, sticky(xD), majestic, graceful, @_Animal_-istic, the-one-and-only, stylish, apprehensive, stupendous, colorful, inspiring, helpful, patient, brilliant, alluring, larger-than-life, ravishing, altruistic, opinionated, raw, deep, friendly, dramatic, just-freaking-wonderful, enchanting, breathtaking, sane, soulful, direct, responsible, giving, lustful, smart, intuitive, eloquent, perfect, compassionate, pretty, idealistic, daring, one-of-a-kind, humble, super, original, quirky, eccentric, inspired,.. same species.


I hit all of those qualities at some point during my monthly hormone cycle. But I'd need to add just a tiny bit of crazy, unpredictable, clumsy, forgetful, and homicidal in there as well..


----------



## Rala

Spirit Animal said:


> Adjectives that apply to my soulmate...
> 
> sane


Just this particular word... Just something about it *tears of joy*

I love watching you guys around being happy and infecting others too.  It's like a breath of cold mountain air, it leaves you breathless... literally.

:love_heart:


----------



## drmiller100

I don't want sane. I don't want batshit crazy. 

something in the middle thank you very much.


----------



## HellCat

Ace Face said:


> "THE END"
> 
> 
> 
> ​












Needs jazz hands.


----------



## HellCat




----------



## star tripper

Ace Face said:


> I'm not going to debate the senseless actions of all the people who, from my perspective, really seem to have antagonized her in this thread. My opinion is my opinion, and *no amount of smooth talk bull shit is going to change it* this time. It is what it is. You can't bull shit a bull shitter. Oh, and the fact that she responded back to you only means she's trying to defend herself from you... who quoted her after the second or third time she asked for people to stop quoting her.
> 
> 
> 
> We're all needy sometimes. But I'm right there with you.


Hey, now you're just being typist against 3s! :tongue:

I do think you misunderstood my intentions, though. I wasn't pointing a finger at her when I said she quoted me first; I was just saying I did not disrespect her request since she initiated the contact. I don't appreciate the way you framed "you... who quoted her after the second or third time she asked for people to stop quoting her" since she replied directly to me and I stopped quoting her as soon as she asked me to. I know this discussion has been put to rest, but I don't think this post was fair to me, so I'm replying anyway.

I know intellectually we're all needy sometimes, but I like to maintain the guise that I'm not, so I'm behaving a bit erratically. I'm either spamming him with text messages or ignoring his text messages like I can't find a healthy medium. This is why I shouldn't be allowed near a phone. My first conversation with him via text entailed me explaining what a Colombian necktie is.


----------



## Ace Face

star tripper said:


> Hey, now you're just being typist against 3s! :tongue:
> 
> I do think you misunderstood my intentions, though. I wasn't pointing a finger at her when I said she quoted me first; I was just saying I did not disrespect her request since she initiated the contact. I don't appreciate the way you framed "you... who quoted her after the second or third time she asked for people to stop quoting her" since she replied directly to me and I stopped quoting her as soon as she asked me to. I know this discussion has been put to rest, but I don't think this post was fair to me, so I'm replying anyway.


Fair enough. Understood.



> I know intellectually we're all needy sometimes, but I like to maintain the guise that I'm not, so I'm behaving a bit erratically. I'm either spamming him with text messages or ignoring his text messages like I can't find a healthy medium. This is why I shouldn't be allowed near a phone. My first conversation with him via text entailed me explaining what a Colombian necktie is.


A "healthy medium"? 

What is this foreign thing you speak of? 

Does. Not. Compute. 


* *






* *




System overload!





* *




System overload!





* *




System overload!





* *


----------



## Ace Face

I think there needs to be a warning displayed at the very beginning of the thread. I can see it now...

*WARNING!* You must be at least this dramatic to post in this thread:










​


----------



## star tripper

Ace Face said:


> Fair enough. Understood.
> 
> 
> 
> A "healthy medium"?
> 
> What is this foreign thing you speak of?
> 
> Does. Not. Compute.
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> System overload!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> System overload!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> System overload!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * *


RIGHT THOUGH? I didn't even realize how erratic I was until my friends and I started talking about our love lives and they were visibly troubled by me. One friend said, "You talk way too much about him. Can't you just... read a book?"

Read.

a.

book.

I clearly can't even focus on a conversation topic and you expect me to be able to read a book? I'm too busy investing my brain power on deciding what I should spam him with or if I should leave the poor guy alone (although I think he's pretty needy too).


----------



## mimesis

Ace Face said:


> I think there needs to be a warning displayed at the very beginning of the thread. I can see it now...
> 
> *WARNING!* You must be at least this dramatic to post in this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


To each his own...


----------



## Animal

Adjectives to describe my soul mate:


Honest, thoughtful, sensitive, authentic, tough, kind, beautiful, gorgeous, sexy, graceful, protective, sensuous, arousing, adorable, strong, passionate, artistic, creative, funny, enchanting, golden, magical, sticky, evil nine (lol), purrring, curious, mischievous, artistic, creative, perceptive, imaginative, alluring, majestic, irresistible, animalistic, so-carnal-it's-spiritual, lionine, glorious, fantastical, independent, unique, kind, good, dreamy, imaginative, intriguing, brilliant, modest, caring, sensual, sexual, colorful, hungry, smiley, expressive, _expressive,_ *expressive*, expressive, emotive, sane, erotic, tasty, intense, dramatic, libidinous, romantic, wild, trustworthy, fascinating, bewitching, delightful, talented, radiant, exquisite, enticing, rhythmic, mysterious, flexible, genuine, attentive, loving, fiery, hot, helpful, bouncy, captivating, adaptable, equitable, honorable, empowered, independent, free, great values, uncorruptable, immune to bullshit, emotive, open-hearted, giggly, growly, flowing, flying, patient, inspiring, insightful, intuitive, self-aware, mindful, attuned, observant, empathetic, confident, generous, lively, luminescent, smiley, huggable, lovable, talented, trusting, dependable, exciting, inviting, appreciative, handy, adventurous, accepting, forgiving, sincere, felinesque, individualistic, autonomous, flowing, unrestrained, freeing, ferocious, lush, vibrant, vivid, spirited, instinctual and powerful and ethereal like a @_Spirit Animal_, natural, ravishing, soulful, real, ravaging, indestructible, understanding, raw, charismatic, musical, willful, earnest, fervent, blazing, tender, rapturous, sentimental, dynamic, ebullient, thirsty, fierce, burning, ravenous, voracious, devoted, from same planet













​


----------



## Mr inappropriate

@Animal that picture is scary (resemblance) ^^


----------



## Bunny

Luke Skywalker said:


> Maybe. I'm not that knowledgeable about the ennea though. She could be typed as 8 superficially because of how aggressive she is but I think that'd be very off. She doesn't look at all like a 9, 1, 2 or 3 either. She woud probably be a 4, it is much more evident when she's with Sarah, and Kira too. And I think that the way she pretends to talk to Paul is also very 4-ish. But I could see 7 for her as well. Sx 7s are a bit like her. Dreamy. I saw Harley Quinn typed as Sx 7 here. Helena's a bit Harley Quinn-ish, don't you think?
> 
> I wouldn't know about Sx 5 though. o.o


Sx 5s often get mistaken for 4s, I can come off very 4ish to people at times.


----------



## Animal

DAPHNE LXIV said:


> <3


<3



> Too busy being useless to do anything else tbh.


Lol.. hadn't thought of that one 

/cue retort from feminists


----------



## FearAndTrembling

I like this:

Call the world if you Please "The vale of Soul-making". Then you will find out the use of the world (I am speaking now in the highest terms for human nature admitting it to be immortal which I will here take for granted for the purpose of showing a thought which has struck me concerning it) I say 'Soul making' Soul as distinguished from an Intelligence- There may be intelligences or sparks of the divinity in millions-but they are not Souls till they acquire identities, till each one is personally itself. I[n]telligences are atoms of perception-they know and they see and they are pure, in short they are God-How then are Souls to be made? How then arc these sparks which are God to have identity given them-so as ever to possess a bliss peculiar to each one's individual existence?

I can scarcely express what I but dimly perceive-and yet I think I perceive it-that you may judge the more clearly I will put it in the most homely form possible-I will call the world a School instituted for the purpose of teaching little children to read-I will call the human heart the horn Book used in that School-and I will call the Child able to -read, the Soul made from that School and its hornbook. Do you not see how necessary a World of Pains and troubles is to school an Intelligence and make it a Soul? A Place where the heart must feel and suffer in a thousand diverse ways! Not merely is the Heart a Hornbook, It is the Minds Bible, it is the Minds expe rience, it is the teat from which the Mind or intelligence sucks its identity. As various as the Lives of Men are-so various become their Souls, and thus does God make individual beings, Souls, Identical Souls of the Sparks of his own essence-This appears to me a faint sketch of a system of Salvation which does not affront our reason and humanity-I am convinced that many difficulties which Christians labour under would vanish before it-there is one which even now Strikes me-the Salvation of Children-In them the Spark or intelligence returns to God without any identity-it having had no time to learn of and be altered by the heart-or seat of the human Passions-It is pretty generally suspected that the cbr_stian scheme has been coppied from the ancient persian and greek Philosophers. Why may they not have made this simple thing even more simple for common apprehension by introducing Mediators and Personages in the same manner as in the he[a]then mythology abstractions are personified-Seriously I think it probable that this System of Soul-making-may have been the Parent of all the more palpable and personal Schemes of Redemption, among the Zoroastrians the Christians and the Hindoos. For as one part of the human species must have their carved Jupiter; so another part must have the palpable and named Mediator and Saviour, their Christ their Oromanes and their Vishnu-If what I have said should not be plain enough, as I fear it may not be, I will but [for put] you in the place where I began in this series of thoughts-I mean, I began by seeing how man was formed by circumstances-and what are circumstances?-but touchstones of his heart-? and what are touchstones? but proovings of his heart? and what are proovings of his heart but fortifiers or alterers of his nature? and what is his altered nature but his Soul?-and what was his Soul before it came into the world and had these provings and alterations and perfectionings?-An intelligence-without Identity-and how is this Identity to be made? Through the medium of the Heart? And how is the heart to become this Medium but in a world of Circumstances? . . .

Your ever affectionate brother,
John Keats._


----------



## Chesire Tower

Part Deux : to my post above. In addition to letting go of my anger, hurt, pain and other useless and potentially self-harmful negative emotions; I have also freed myself from the need to control, manipulate or otherwise emotionally manage others. I felt it necessary to do this before because I couldn't tolerate the pain of disharmony or emotional disconnection. It is beyond gratifying that In can now allow people to be themselves and not feel that my very sense of self will be adversely impacted by this.

This doesn't mean that I no longer care - far from it or that I have 0 interest in any sort of influence or persuasion; I am still human, afterall. What it does mean, is that my sense of self has become so enhanced, so strong, so solid that such things no longer faze me. If time travel to the past, actually existed, I would more than happily smack myself upside the head numerous times for wasing my life and energies - energies that I could have actually devoted to actually *living* my life and trying to make something of it, which I am determined to do. The fascinating and ironic thing is that for the first time in my life; I feel so wonderfully calm and excited - all at the same time.

Not only could I never have done anything like this before, I couldn't even have imagined it to be possible. For me, the only way to shield myself from any kind of relentless and overwhelming emotional pain, was to detach from my emotions, dissicociate, refuse to my eventual and ultimate detriment, accept any extremely painful reality. Suffice it to say, it was hell to be me. Now, I no longer have to live/suffer that way and once you see the reality for what it really is; you can never ever go back. That saying "the truth shall set you free" really is true. Nothing is more gratifying that setting oneself free from neurotic delusion. I think if someone has ever said to me, "Chesire", you no longer have to live this way; I would have thought that were some really mind-bending drugs because it just didn't seem possible.

It would be extremely tempting to criticise and/or pass judgement on anyone who hasn't yet realized what I understand but remembering how pathetically clueless and unaware I used to be; all I can feel is compassion for people who continue to live with the ongoing self-torment that I have finally escaped from. Maybe I just decided to stop merely existing and actually fully live my life with purpose and passion. Conversely, perhaps I just had the building-fall-on-me epiphany that the only person I can/will ever be able to have a snowball's chance to control is myself. 



* *


----------



## Animal

Confession:
I don't like to do that many things. I prefer most of my time to be dedicated to my writing and exercise routine, music, reflection. It means the world to me that I can reflect and write and exercise with @Draconic by my side.  And on the occasions when I do other things, he is the person I'd want to do them with. <3 <3


----------



## Daeva

Animal said:


> Confession:
> I don't like to do that many things. I prefer most of my time to be dedicated to my writing and exercise routine, music, reflection. It means the world to me that I can reflect and write and exercise with @_Draconic_ by my side.  And on the occasions when I do other things, he is the person I'd want to do them with. <3 <3


----------



## Bunny

I need intensity in a relationship, can't do without it. Which isn't exactly "healthy" but oh well...


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Wytch said:


> I need intensity in a relationship, can't do without it. Which isn't exactly "healthy" but oh well...


Well, there might be healthy ways to achieve intensity? (Though unhealthy is probably easier.)


----------



## Ace Face

Distortions said:


> *Well, there might be healthy ways to achieve intensity?*


There definitely are... thank goodness xD


----------



## drmiller100

Wytch said:


> I need intensity in a relationship, can't do without it. Which isn't exactly "healthy" but oh well...


I like intensity, variety, and honesty.

Doable.


----------



## Bunny

@Distortions I agree definitely but can that last throughout a relationship? Yes but it is more rare and I'm not saying that I create intensity just for the sake of it. Far from it.

@drmiller100 it is just tougher to find 

I'm not saying I stay in unhealthy relationships, it was just a confession which this place is for


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Wytch said:


> @_Distortions_ I agree definitely but can that last throughout a relationship? Yes but it is more rare and I'm not saying that I create intensity just for the sake of it. Far from it.


Well, it's something I've also been thinking about kind of. Healthy ways to have an exciting relationship. That's preferably also lasting. Like I said, though, unhealthy probably is easier for that, but I'm too Sp for that lol.


----------



## Animal

Wytch said:


> I need intensity in a relationship, can't do without it. Which isn't exactly "healthy" but oh well...





Distortions said:


> Well, there might be healthy ways to achieve intensity? (Though unhealthy is probably easier.)





Ace Face said:


> There definitely are... thank goodness xD


Intensity is not a perpetual state. 

It's impossible to sustain the level of intensity that Sx people need to fulfill their primary instinctual drive. People who are "always on" are social-first. The energy may not be as bright and explosive, but it is always accessible. With Sx people, it has to wax and wane. Otherwise there is no room for it to become intense enough to be fulfilling. It has to empty out and then replenish itself. Every hunter will rest after conquering and devouring her prey.

I am in a relationship with another Sx dom ( @_Draconic_ ) and we are intense together in moments, and then there are moments like now where both of us lie next to each other and type on separate laptops. I am writing a fantasy series which demands a lot of intense focus, and I love having him in the room with me on his own laptop while I'm doing it (if he so chooses). That means the world to me. What might seem intense about us from an outsider's perspective is that we can spend every single moment together and still manage to introspect, create, write and think separately, then fuse it all together and share our (internal) experiences... and all of our external experiences (outside work) are together. We will be happy as long as we can also introspect and create separately; go into our own mindspace even if we are in the same physical space. 

That is its own type of intensity. But, what I can't handle, is someone who is always on, constantly draining my attention, threatened that I'm working or chatting with a friend on skype. I can't be someone's babysitter; it's why I don't want to have kids. My intensity needs to be natural and in spurts.


----------



## Bunny

Distortions said:


> Well, it's something I've also been thinking about kind of. Healthy ways to have an exciting relationship. That's preferably also lasting. Like I said, though, unhealthy probably is easier for that, but I'm too Sp for that lol.


I feel the same way, it must just come down to chemistry because I think it would be difficult to have to constantly find ways of keeping it up otherwise.
XD Oh, I totally agree with you there it is a lot easier that way.




Animal said:


> Intensity is not a perpetual state.
> 
> It's impossible to sustain the level of intensity that Sx people need to fulfill their primary instinctual drive. People who are "always on" are social-first. The energy may not be as bright and explosive, but it is always accessible. With Sx people, it has to wax and wane. Otherwise there is no room for it to become intense enough to be fulfilling. It has to empty out and then replenish itself. Every hunter will rest after conquering and devouring her prey.
> 
> I am in a relationship with another Sx dom ( @_Draconic_ ) and we are intense together in moments, and then there are moments like now where both of us lie next to each other and type on separate laptops. I am writing a fantasy series which demands a lot of intense focus, and I love having him in the room with me on his own laptop while I'm doing it (if he so chooses). That means the world to me. What might seem intense about us from an outsider's perspective is that we can spend every single moment together and still manage to introspect, create, write and think separately, then fuse it all together and share our (internal) experiences... and all of our external experiences (outside work) are together. We will be happy as long as we can also introspect and create separately; go into our own mindspace even if we are in the same physical space.
> 
> That is its own type of intensity. But, what I can't handle, is someone who is always on, constantly draining my attention, threatened that I'm working or chatting with a friend on skype. I can't be someone's babysitter; it's why I don't want to have kids. My intensity needs to be natural and in spurts.


Thank you for this  that makes a lot of sense to me.
I need my freedom too and like to be alone often so, I certainly wouldn't want someone always tugging at me either.
I like how you put it and I can understand what you mean by "its' own type of intensity" it makes sense.
You two sound great together  that's awesome and I was honestly wondering how a Sx dom couple would work and its' nice to know that it can (and very well at that).

I will keep this all in mind.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

@Animal
Well, I wasn't really thinking about perpetual intensity either, more about how there might be healthy ways to keep the fire from dying completely. Of course, personally I don't think I could deal with constant intensity either. Although "always accessible" sounds appealing in the sense of having a reliable source. =P


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Actually, now I'm wondering if I know anyone who is on all the time. Not like I would be able to observe them, though...


----------



## Runvardh

Body's aching again and the fans in my computer are all that keep me from drowning in oblivion. I suppose it would help if I would stop holding people out at arm's length, but whom can I really trust with this? Besides, it's not like the desperation, deep down, is sexy...


----------



## Animal

Distortions said:


> Actually, now I'm wondering if I know anyone who is on all the time. Not like I would be able to observe them, though...


Soc doms can be like this. They rarely reach the same burst of intensity that SX doms do, but they can be engaged all the time as if there is not enough engagement and interaction in the world.


----------



## Ace Face

Animal said:


> Intensity is not a perpetual state.
> 
> It's impossible to sustain the level of intensity that Sx people need to fulfill their primary instinctual drive. People who are "always on" are social-first. The energy may not be as bright and explosive, but it is always accessible. With Sx people, it has to wax and wane. Otherwise there is no room for it to become intense enough to be fulfilling. It has to empty out and then replenish itself. Every hunter will rest after conquering and devouring her prey.
> 
> I am in a relationship with another Sx dom ( @_Draconic_ ) and we are intense together in moments, and then there are moments like now where both of us lie next to each other and type on separate laptops. I am writing a fantasy series which demands a lot of intense focus, and I love having him in the room with me on his own laptop while I'm doing it (if he so chooses). That means the world to me. What might seem intense about us from an outsider's perspective is that we can spend every single moment together and still manage to introspect, create, write and think separately, then fuse it all together and share our (internal) experiences... and all of our external experiences (outside work) are together. We will be happy as long as we can also introspect and create separately; go into our own mindspace even if we are in the same physical space.
> 
> That is its own type of intensity. But, what I can't handle, is someone who is always on, constantly draining my attention, threatened that I'm working or chatting with a friend on skype. I can't be someone's babysitter; it's why I don't want to have kids. My intensity needs to be natural and in spurts.


As interesting as this rant is, I'm curious as to where this came from and why you felt the need to vocalize it. I've given it a day to see if I could come up with any worthwhile ideas. The best I can figure is that this was just some sort of recent magical revelation for you. To me, it seems like an obvious and simple concept... like a "one can't appreciate the day without the night" kinda shit. Like, why would anyone have thought otherwise though? In any case, please, do share the inspiration behind this lovely bit


----------



## Animal

Ace Face said:


> As interesting as this rant is, I'm curious as to where this came from and why you felt the need to vocalize it. I've given it a day to see if I could come up with any worthwhile ideas. The best I can figure is that this was just some sort of recent magical revelation for you. To me, it seems like an obvious and simple concept... like a "one can't appreciate the day without the night" kinda shit. Like, why would anyone have thought otherwise though? In any case, please, do share the inspiration behind this lovely bit


I've had a few people ask me about similar things regarding Sx and So. Some people seem to think Sx is CONSTANT intensity and "I can't take it!" and others seem to think nobody in the world is as intense as they are (regardless of their stack).

When I wrote this I was simultaneously in a conversation on a facebook group where people were talking about instincts & different kinds of intensity. Someone was saying that nobody should think of SX people as "more intense" because any type can be intense in their own way (I completely agree with this) .. and then @_Draconic_ and I were discussing amongst ourselves, HOW people of different stackings might feel more comfortable with intensity, or interaction, in a relationship.

I've known this about myself (and how my intensity operates) for a very long time, if not forever.. so no, its not a magical revelation. In fact, it has disappointed some exes who were Soc first, and really turned on by my initial intensity especially during "the chase," and then after a month or so, I was focused on my work or other things, and only intense in spurts, and they would feel like I lost interest or they had done something wrong. I've actually ended a handful of short relationships or flings because of this, because once I get "in" with someone and they start demanding more and more of my energy, I just... can't. It's one thing to ask or vocalize their feelings but it's another to be perpetually unsatisfied if I can't maintain constant interaction. It is a repeated theme in my life, and I'm so relieved that someone finally gets it. It's like I thought my choice was someone smothering me vs. someone just not caring at all. For what it's worth, any exception I've encountered has been an Sx dom. (Though I am not declaring there can't be other exceptions of other stackings; simply pointing out that I haven't encountered one.)

So, no magical revelation here, but rather my intention was to share my own experience as an Sx dom and how different types of intensity affect me. Since a few people in the thread, namely the one I quoted, had said they would never find a healthy, but also intense, relationship.. I wanted to mention that I had found it (but specify the manner in which I did).

Basically I was encouraging them by mentioning that their fellow Sx dom is happy in a relationship. Sometimes when I'm single and feeling like what I want just doesn't exist, it's nice to hear that others have found it.. it gives me hope. And I always like to give back to the world what it has given to me. I can't promise it would have that effect on someone else, but that was my intention, to share an honest experience for that reason. But I wanted to explain what I meant by "intensity" because it might not be what people expect. And certainly my experience has been, as obvious as this is *to me* - and apparently to you - a lot of people_ don't_ get it.


----------



## Ace Face

People spew all of this "be yourself" shit constantly. That's great and all, but I'm so sick of seeing people take that shit out of context. 

1. "Being yourself" is not an excuse to act like a fucking moron.
2. To excuse yourself by saying "That's just how I am" is a pathetic attempt to rid yourself of accountability for your actions.
3. I detest people who make sorry ass excuses for themselves... just how deluded are you?


----------



## Bricolage

Animal said:


> Lust is not about sex. It is about conquest.


I'm pretty sure someone's experiencing lust when they masturbate to porn or fantasy…which doesn't involve any direct conquest that I'm aware of.


----------



## Ace Face

Bricolage said:


> I'm pretty sure someone's experiencing lust when they masturbate to porn or fantasy…which doesn't involve any direct conquest that I'm aware of.


I was thinking it, you said it. +2 points.


----------



## Bricolage

Ace Face said:


> I was thinking it, you said it. +2 points.


It's an interesting theory but, alas, facts got in the way. I'm also very hesitant to weave these complex sociopolitical theories into sexuality; people can just get hard/wet for no apparent reason without involving Freud or conquest or some other damned thing.


----------



## Ace Face

Bricolage said:


> It's an interesting theory but, alas, facts got in the way. I'm also very hesitant to weave these complex sociopolitical theories into sexuality; people can just get hard/wet for no apparent reason without involving Freud or conquest or some other damned thing.


Agreed.


----------



## Daeva

Bricolage said:


> I'm pretty sure someone's experiencing lust when they masturbate to porn or fantasy…which doesn't involve any direct conquest that I'm aware of.


How about indirect?


Bricolage said:


> It's an interesting theory but, alas, facts got in the way. I'm also very hesitant to weave these complex sociopolitical theories into sexuality; people can just get hard/wet for no apparent reason without involving Freud or conquest or some other damned thing.


Getting sexually aroused doesn't have to involve lust. And lust doesn't equate sex.

Yet, the need to dominate and conquer involves lust. Try guessing why the vice of type 8 is... lust.


----------



## Bricolage

Ace Face said:


> Agreed.


/thread


----------



## Bricolage

Draconic said:


> Getting sexually aroused doesn't have to involve lust. And lust doesn't equate sex.


That's my point. :wink:


----------



## Daeva

Bricolage said:


> That's my point. :wink:


You're so creative :wink:


----------



## Animal

Bricolage said:


> I'm pretty sure someone's experiencing lust when they masturbate to porn or fantasy…which doesn't involve any direct conquest that I'm aware of.





Ace Face said:


> I was thinking it, you said it. +2 points.





Bricolage said:


> It's an interesting theory but, alas, facts got in the way. I'm also very hesitant to weave these complex sociopolitical theories into sexuality; people can just get hard/wet for no apparent reason without involving Freud or conquest or some other damned thing.


I was thinking more in the 8 context. Should have specified. It was more of a momentary thought/confession, not meant to be a profound or informative lecture. Sure, we could debate the semantics of "is lust simply sexual attraction?" ... but in the sense of enneagram, then it would be silly to attribute this to type 8 as a vice. Because everyone experiences sexual attraction. For 8s, lust is more of a general, pervasive, underlying impulse to conquer and dominate. Sexual attraction can be part of this, and it can also play into how they express sexual attraction, even if their capacity to _love _is beyond that.

Also, as @_Draconic_ mentioned... "How about indirect?"

Is porn not about conquering an object? In porn, both people are objectified; their bodies are laid bare for others to watch and masturbate to. I would hardly say that this is about love, or even something as simple as 'sexual attraction.' Its more about stripping someone of their humanity, lust, objectification, dominance, because that person's humanity has been removed from the equation, and it's all about your pleasure. 

I would not equate that to the type of sexual attraction I experience when I'm in love, for instance, though there may be moments when I am feeling lusty and want to experience 'conquering' him or being 'conquered by him' momentarily. I also want to have sex with him because I want to be close to him, to merge with him, to feel with him, to experience this pleasure as a pair, to give HIM pleasure. That's very different from porn - you are not giving that person any pleasure of their own by watching them fornicate as objects.


----------



## Ace Face

Animal said:


> I was thinking more in the 8 context. Should have specified. It was more of a momentary thought/confession, not meant to be a profound or informative lecture. Sure, we could debate the semantics of "is lust simply sexual attraction?" ... but in the sense of enneagram, then it would be silly to attribute this to type 8 as a vice. Because everyone experiences sexual attraction. For 8s, lust is more of a general, pervasive, underlying impulse to conquer and dominate. Sexual attraction can be part of this, and it can also play into how they express sexual attraction, even if their capacity to _love _is beyond that.


No qualms with this. 



> Also, as @_Draconic_ mentioned... "How about indirect?"
> 
> Is porn not about conquering an object?
> 
> In porn, both people are objectified; their bodies are laid bare for others to watch and masturbate to. I would hardly say that this is about love, or even something as simple as 'sexual attraction.' Its more about stripping someone of their humanity, lust, objectification, dominance, because that person's humanity has been removed from the equation, and it's all about your pleasure.
> 
> I would not equate that to the type of sexual attraction I experience when I'm in love, for instance, though there may be moments when I am feeling lusty and want to experience 'conquering' him orbeing 'conquered by him' momentarily. I also want to have sex with him because I want to be close to him, to merge with him, to feel with him, to experience this pleasure as a pair, to give HIM pleasure. That's very different from porn - you are not giving that person any pleasure of their own by watching them fornicate as objects.


I think any point you made here is irrelevant simply on this basis: For anything to be considered a conquest, there would need to be direct intention. A conquest is a task with a clear directive. If it's indirect, it's not a conquest. Semantics, I know, but a valid point nonetheless.


----------



## Animal

Ace Face said:


> I think any point you made here is irrelevant simply on this basis: For anything to be considered a conquest, there would need to be direct intention. A conquest is a task with a clear directive. If it's indirect, it's not a conquest. Semantics, I know, but a valid point nonetheless.


Yeah.. I can see your point on that.

It's only relevant in the sense of it being a specific type of sexual attraction that is, by nature, objectifying and dehumanizing, and not the same as being sexually attracted to someone you actually care about. I am not implying it's 'wrong' or 'bad' or there is some Freudian problem with it. It's perfectly human to experience that kind of lust, attraction, selfish desire, or whatever you want to call it. Nothing shameful or dirty about it. It becomes, arguably, 'bad' - if those type of desires are expressed in such a way that it harms others.. but that said, all of us harm others, whether intentionally or not, because not everyone wants the same thing at the same time, and being human is..complex. So yeah, I can see why it's important to distinguish between personal indulgence and conquest, and how both could be called 'lust,' if we are considering colloquial lust rather than the enneagram-lust connotation.


----------



## Rala

When my inner child needs protection, I am the Warrior who fights and defends. When the warrior in me is tired and needs love, I am that innocent and loving child who nurtures. I am here now and I will never abandon myself again.


----------



## Golden Rose

Rala said:


> When my inner child needs protection, I am the Warrior who fights and defends. When the warrior in me is tired and needs love, I am that innocent and loving child who nurtures. I am here now and I will never abandon myself again.


I am my own best friend and my own worst enemy.


----------



## drmiller100

Animal said:


> .
> 
> It's only relevant in the sense of it being a specific type of sexual attraction that is, by nature, objectifying and dehumanizing, and not the same as being sexually attracted to someone you actually care about. .


This is certainly a valid viewpoint from an N. YOU wish to be valued for something more than your looks.

Some people WANT to be objectified and lusted after for their looks. Whether they have any kind of relationship with those who lust after them is irrelevant; they like to be lusted after for their looks.


----------



## Animal

drmiller100 said:


> This is certainly a valid viewpoint from an N. YOU wish to be valued for something more than your looks.
> 
> Some people WANT to be objectified and lusted after for their looks. Whether they have any kind of relationship with those who lust after them is irrelevant; they like to be lusted after for their looks.


I was not judging this as bad. I was just calling it what it is. Calling a spade a spade, if you will. I have no problem with anyones sexual preferences, lust etc. Dehumanizing someone in a willing sexual context , or privately in one's own mind (aka porn or personal fantasies) does not offend me. Nor does wishing to be dehumanized. But i'm just saying, that's what it_ is._


----------



## Rala

Wildest Rose said:


> I am my own best friend and my own worst enemy.


Same. And it is true when it comes to people in my life too.


----------



## cinnabun

Tbh, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders. Feels great to be able to breathe again.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

drmiller100 said:


> This is certainly a valid viewpoint from an N. YOU wish to be valued for something more than your looks.


So it wouldn't be a valid viewpoint from an S?


----------



## cinnabun

Ace Face said:


> People spew all of this "be yourself" shit constantly. That's great and all, but I'm so sick of seeing people take that shit out of context.
> 
> 1. "Being yourself" is not an excuse to act like a fucking moron.
> 2. To excuse yourself by saying "That's just how I am" is a pathetic attempt to rid yourself of accountability for your actions.
> 3. I detest people who make sorry ass excuses for themselves... just how deluded are you?


Preeeeeeeeeeeach.

"I know I was a dick, and you're right to be upset, but you always knew this about me...so, you have nobody to blame but yourself."

How about no?


----------



## cinnabun

Well, _that_ was fun :kitteh:.


----------



## Bunny

It's such a conflict in me that I wish so desperately to open-up my feelings to someone but at the same time I feel so stupid doing it because it will most likely end in hurt.
Yet each time I have such hope that it will end happily. I don't know how I do it sometimes.


----------



## Inveniet

I find So types soo annoying.
Sx/So's are actually the worst cause they connect with me and then try to drag me into some group.
Then hilarity ensues as I don't defer to hierarchy in said group and Sx/So is conflicted about
group loyalties and the connection with me.


----------



## mimesis

Bricolage said:


> It's an interesting theory but, alas, facts got in the way. I'm also very hesitant to weave these complex sociopolitical theories into sexuality; people can just get hard/wet for no apparent reason without involving Freud or conquest or some other damned thing.


Just 9 words. Sounds like you were reading a lot more.

Granted, masturbation and self gratification using porn that is so easily accessible on the internet, may have a side effect of alienation from nature. 

Therefore, just to remind you, last time I checked, most other animals don't have the internet 
























http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketsc...ses-and-corkscrew-vaginas-the-sexual-battles/


----------



## Donovan

Ace Face said:


> People spew all of this "be yourself" shit constantly. That's great and all, but I'm so sick of seeing people take that shit out of context.
> 
> 1. "Being yourself" is not an excuse to act like a fucking moron.
> 2. To excuse yourself by saying* "That's just how I am"* is a pathetic attempt to rid yourself of accountability for your actions.
> 3. I detest people who make sorry ass excuses for themselves... just how deluded are you?


this doesn't exactly detract from what you're saying, but it occurred to me a different way when reading what you wrote. 

what if stating your shittier qualities as plain fact, to yourself, and then being real _with_ yourself, helps you see things more clearly? what if it's actually more of a balm, a balanced center to come back to, or even a realization that you're unhappy with yourself? 


what you said sounds more like being complacent, and i understand what you mean (resigning oneself to something 'lower' in order to stop growth and stagnate because it's too hard/painful otherwise, and instead hiding behind some socially created/semi-and-loosely-archetypal image of a person eaten by their own demons--is a waste of that person), but sometimes a person may have to re-open old scars in order to tear up their foundation. 
sometimes i think this means being rough with ourselves, to a degree. to allow things to be shattered before our own eyes, by accepting what we are, or what we have become, and placing judgement _there_. 

sorry, again, it doesn't go against what you've said--this is basically taking the spectators view at an imaginary scene, like one you've described, and seeing where else it could go; what first occurred to me. 
i know that it's helped me quite a bit in even realizing that most of my own anger is truly directed at myself (and just gets misdirected at others, or at things outside of myself). it's also helped me to see other things about myself (that aren't really a part of this topic).


----------



## Ace Face

Donovan said:


> this doesn't exactly detract from what you're saying, but it occurred to me a different way when reading what you wrote.
> 
> what if stating your shittier qualities as plain fact, to yourself, and then being real _with_ yourself, helps you see things more clearly? what if it's actually more of a balm, a balanced center to come back to, or even a realization that you're unhappy with yourself?
> 
> 
> what you said sounds more like being complacent, and i understand what you mean (resigning oneself to something 'lower' in order to stop growth and stagnate because it's too hard/painful otherwise, and instead hiding behind some socially created/semi-and-loosely-archetypal image of a person eaten by their own demons--is a waste of that person), but sometimes a person may have to re-open old scars in order to tear up their foundation.
> sometimes i think this means being rough with ourselves, to a degree. to allow things to be shattered before our own eyes, by accepting what we are, or what we have become, and placing judgement _there_.
> 
> sorry, again, it doesn't go against what you've said--this is basically taking the spectators view at an imaginary scene, like one you've described, and seeing where else it could go; what first occurred to me.
> i know that it's helped me quite a bit in even realizing that most of my own anger is truly directed at myself (and just gets misdirected at others, or at things outside of myself). it's also helped me to see other things about myself (that aren't really a part of this topic).


What you described means you're taking accountability (which aids in growth) so it doesn't really apply in the context in which my post was written.


----------



## Donovan

Ace Face said:


> What you described means you're taking accountability (which aids in growth) so it doesn't really apply in the context in which my post was written.


yes, you're right i guess... again (lol, sorry), i wasn't trying to imply otherwise. i guess i was just writing out a thought, seeing what came from it. 
(still difficult to tell the difference sometimes, whether or not accountability has been taken, or whether crucifying oneself is just another form of self-indulgence like so many other problems that people get into--yet, it can be masked by aligning with "appropriate social etiquette"). 

like being on a spectrum of denying guilt or compassion, or even in denying how one's actions literally hurt the individual, yet they don't realize it (their own pain), until they realize what their pain, or denial of, has turned them into. 

in that sense, maybe it wouldn't even be 'taking accountability', more so than falling back on another ego-structure when the opposite pendulum has failed. (but then again, i guess that is the basis of integration and disintegration, so even while giving in--either for better or worse--is still just a process in the over all scheme of becoming whole?). 


don't feel compelled () to respond to any of that, lol. or do if you please.


----------



## Ace Face

Donovan said:


> yes, you're right i guess... again (lol, sorry), i wasn't trying to imply otherwise. i guess i was just writing out a thought, seeing what came from it.
> (still difficult to tell the difference sometimes, whether or not accountability has been taken, or whether crucifying oneself is just another form of self-indulgence like so many other problems that people get into--yet, it can be masked by aligning with "appropriate social etiquette").


Agreed. There needs to be a balanced mindest. Some people are accountable to the point of feeling guilty over every single thing... like they're not good enough, not measuring up, etc. That's not good... but neither is letting everything slide for whatever bull shit reason. 



> like being on a spectrum of denying guilt or compassion, or even in denying how one's actions literally hurt the individual, yet they don't realize it (their own pain), until they realize what their pain, or denial of, has turned them into.


As long as they realize it and at least try to do something about it (instead of playing victim every time it happens), I can understand this. 



> in that sense, maybe it wouldn't even be 'taking accountability', more so than falling back on another ego-structure when the opposite pendulum has failed. (but then again, i guess that is the basis of integration and disintegration, so even while giving in--either for better or worse--is still just a process in the over all scheme of becoming whole?).


I see what you mean. Very few people, if anybody, is stable and healthy all the time. And I think integration and disintegration can vacillate pretty rapidly. It doesn't always come out in extremes or in a negative lens though. 




> don't feel compelled () to respond to any of that, lol. or do if you please.


No, no! This is good stuff. I wanted to reply ^.^


----------



## Golden Rose

hornet said:


> I find So types soo annoying.
> Sx/So's are actually the worst cause they connect with me and then try to drag me into some group.
> Then hilarity ensues as I don't defer to hierarchy in said group and Sx/So is conflicted about
> group loyalties and the connection with me.


Sx/So are my favorites, actually. They have the tact I don't.
So/Sx on the other hand... they could type as a rake but you can smell it a mile away. 

So/sp and Sp/so are generally inoffensive.
Not my cup of tea but they do their own thing and just live in their alien (to me) world.


----------



## Superfluous

vaccinate your fucking kids


* *




* vaccinate your fucking kids*


----------



## Rala

superfluous said:


> vaccinate your fucking kids
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * vaccinate your fucking kids*


please, do not vaccinate your fucking kids.


----------



## Ace Face

This is the fucking shit I wait for. Just give me a reason, mother fucker. Come on--I dare you. Cross the line. I *so* fucking dare you. It will be one of your biggest regrets, and one of my greatest pleasures.


----------



## fuliajulia

I find debating with people who can't science seriously emotionally distressing...


----------



## cinnabun

You had your chance.

You had plenty.

If you truly love someone, you need to let them go.

I can't comprise my own health and happiness for your selfish needs. I done it for a year, I'm not doing it anymore.

You've gone too far, and you're always going to live to regret this.


----------



## Golden Rose

Not even the time to get home and we're both already online. 
@Animal is adorable, she's exactly the same way as she is in text. Extremely genuine.

Also having a seat mate who was as much of an alcoholic as I am kinda made things easier. Haha.


----------



## Ace Face

This is the first free weekend I've had in about a month. Well, I'm not free the whole weekend. I still work tomorrow, but shit. I'm off for today, and that's what fucking counts. I can get all the things that have been piling up on my to-do list completely knocked out. This is going to be a great fucking day indeed. I'm going to make my rounds today. Long overdue visits with extended family, lunch for the homeless, a brief meeting with my supervisor, a hurr appointment, and a doctor's visit, complete with time to reconfigure my budget, and time to get my car looking nice and sexy.


----------



## Sygma

Distortions said:


> So it wouldn't be a valid viewpoint from an S?


Definitely a valid one aslong you're not an ass




hornet said:


> I find So types soo annoying.
> Sx/So's are actually the worst cause they connect with me and then try to drag me into some group.
> Then hilarity ensues as I don't defer to hierarchy in said group and Sx/So is conflicted about
> group loyalties and the connection with me.


Lol, man so spot on it hurts. Always trying to bring the lone wolf to enjoy something more, and it never work. Then the Sx/So is all sad pandaz. #NFthuglife


----------



## Sygma

edit : .


----------



## Ace Face

I don't really have too many problems with people here on PerC, but in real life... shit. People are stupid as hell, lol. 

I'm usually pretty chill and laid back even when other people get cute and try to insult me. I find their ignorance and the fact that they think I care about what they have to say pretty fucking hilarious. 

Now, when people even look at someone I love the wrong way... God help your soul. Bitchy, pushy, and aggressive doesn't even begin to cover it. I will embarrass a mother fucker in front of God and the world. That's no joke. Don't mess with mine cuz I'll fuck you and yours up in a heartbeat and then go on about my business without so much as a rise in blood pressure. People just don't even know...


----------



## Chesire Tower

I think that @Animal is smart not to own a TV. Perhaps I'd be that much happier, not watching the news, not knowing what is going on in the world and living happily; all blissfully ignorant in my own little bubble. *_le sigh_*


----------



## Gorgon

I need the hurt. I need the pain. The more I love you the more I want you to hurt me. You've open up my vulnerability in ways no one else has ever have. You've touched something in me, something archaic and elemental. You've seen my scars and wounds and dared not to run away. You fool. You see, I have this need to suffer, and if I'm going agonize, I'm going to agonize for you. When you hold me until my skin bruises, I'm reminded of the beast that you really are. Deep down, you're a frothing animal that wants to tear me to pieces. You smell my fear and sense my lust. Ultimately, you love seeing me suffer. It opens up something in you that you've never knew existed. The more vulnerable you get and the more you love me, the more you want to hurt me. You love to see me whimper, cry, and plead. Once I think I've reached a new threshold, you continue to push me. With you, I'll never rest, but that's okay, because I don't need it. So please, push me to my threshold, and let us see what lies behind my mask.


----------



## Eclipsed

The world is said to have begun with a big bang and immediately taken off running in all directions, expansion driven by the immense concentration of mass and raw energy at its center. And one day that world is destined to reverse direction and collapse in on itself, obliterating all that was ever known.

The death of an idealist is just like the death of the universe- a hopelessly beautiful, confusing tragedy.

I am closer to death than birth, beginning to accelerate in the wrong direction and absolutely powerless to stop it. The girl with the rose-tinted glasses is gone. The girl who wanted to make love to the entire world has been replaced with someone who uses every excuse to sleep because she doesn't remember what it feels like to dream anymore.

The fire that used to be my soul has been reduced to a single, low-burning ember, if that. I can't fight anymore. I don't have anything to fight for, really. I think I'm still hoping for someone to come along and save me, but that's foolish because I don't even know what I need saving from. Myself? I'm already gone. There's no one to fight.

It's hard to say specifically what or who I gave the power to unravel me like this. The psychopath I was at the mercy of for just over a year? Or the boy who put his finger over his lips and told me to be compliant? Nah. I'm grasping at straws, which generally happens when people are forced to think their emotions.

I never saw myself as the type to accept defeat, but maybe that was the problem all along. I tried to erase all of my mistakes and what I ended up with was a messy blank page. No trace of me in there anymore, either. Honestly, what the hell have I been placing my faith in all this time, and why? I try to imagine all the ways my life might change for the better, but I can't see the emptiness ever going away.

I don't really know if my writing belongs here anywhere, since I've essentially lost all my passion and motivation to live, but apparently I cannot even do nothing without being unnecessarily intense.


----------



## Ace Face

Thanatesque said:


> I need the hurt. I need the pain. The more I love you the more I want you to hurt me. You've open up my vulnerability in ways no one else has ever have. You've touched something in me, something archaic and elemental. You've seen my scars and wounds and dared not to run away. You fool. You see, I have this need to suffer, and if I'm going agonize, I'm going to agonize for you. When you hold me until my skin bruises, I'm reminded of the beast that you really are. Deep down, you're a frothing animal that wants to tear me to pieces. You smell my fear and sense my lust. Ultimately, you love seeing me suffer. It opens up something in you that you've never knew existed. The more vulnerable you get and the more you love me, the more you want to hurt me. You love to see me whimper, cry, and plead. Once I think I've reached a new threshold, you continue to push me. With you, I'll never rest, but that's okay, because I don't need it. So please, push me to my threshold, and let us see what lies behind my mask.


Baby... no need to air our dirty laundry in front of God and the world. They don't need to know about us... shhhhhhhh.


----------



## Animal

Not in the mood to keep going. Not in the mood to deal with life right now. Fuck Earth. I am not impressed by this prison your species has built for itself. Pissed off at my own species for abandoning me here. My home planet doesn't want me and Earth can't contain me. Somewhere in space there's a black hole that will suck you all in, and only we will remain. Or maybe you are the black hole, and we are the mysterious force that has yet to be defined, which retains its integrity despite this brutal pull. _We will shine_ and you will perish. It is in your nature to crush anything you don't understand - even within yourselves.


----------



## Rala

Being social last sucks.

Maybe I just need to work on this stuff a bit. Maybe I am not a fucking hopeless case. Hello, I am not, I am awesome.


----------



## Golden Rose

*Complete bliss*.
The kind that kidnaps you out of the blue until it takes over every fiber of your being.

What I like about bliss is that it lasts so little yet it has such a powerful effect.
I hate contentment. I hate stagnation. I hate anything comfortable and impersonal.
But bliss devours your heart. It allows you and your own blood to still flow, just a lot warmer.


----------



## infinity paradox

@Eclipsed 



Eclipsed said:


> The world is said to have begun with a big bang and immediately taken off running in all directions, expansion driven by the immense concentration of mass and raw energy at its center. And one day that world is destined to reverse direction and collapse in on itself, obliterating all that was ever known.
> 
> The death of an idealist is just like the death of the universe- a hopelessly beautiful, confusing tragedy.


"Mmmmmm" : The sound I made to myself while reading this. I can close my eyes and see it. Science metaphors in poetic form...



> I am closer to death than birth, beginning to accelerate in the wrong direction and absolutely powerless to stop it. The girl with the rose-tinted glasses is gone. The girl who wanted to make love to the entire world has been replaced with someone who uses every excuse to sleep because she doesn't remember what it feels like to dream anymore.


I feel you. We are all racing forward. Sometimes I have anxiety attacks about this. I also know what it's like to sleep time away and then mourn the fact. I hope for you that you find your dreams again soon.



> I don't really know if my writing belongs here anywhere, since I've essentially lost all my passion and motivation to live, but apparently I cannot even do nothing without being unnecessarily intense.


I enjoyed reading it...Intensity just means you are not living halfway. 

I collect quotes, and this one is not quite elegant, but still one of my absolute favorites: 

*Perhaps there is another kind of writing, I only know this one: In the night, when fear does not let me sleep. 
- Franz Kafka *


----------



## infinity paradox

...


----------



## infinity paradox

*Heart hugging Mind.*

@Animal 



Animal said:


> Not in the mood to keep going. Not in the mood to deal with life right now. Fuck Earth.
> I am not impressed by this prison your species has built for itself. Pissed off at my own species for abandoning me here. My home planet doesn't want me and Earth can't contain me







Actually right now was my first time seeing this video. Anyway, forget love songs. This is my favorite song for singing along to with absolute venom. 




> Somewhere in space there's a black hole that will suck you all in, and only we will remain. Or maybe you are the black hole, and we are the mysterious force that has yet to be defined, which retains its integrity despite this brutal pull. _We will shine_ and you will perish. It is in your nature to crush anything you don't understand - even within yourselves.



_ "...the idea of defining a black hole as the set of events from which it was not possible to escape to a large distance...It means that the boundary of the black hole, the event horizon, is formed by the light rays that just fail to escape from the black hole, hovering forever just on the edge...the paths of these light rays could never approach one another...But if these light rays were swallowed up by the black hole, then they could not have been on the boundary of the black hole. So, the paths of light rays in the event horizon had always to be moving parallel to, or away from, each other...the event horizon, the boundary of the black hole, is like the edge of a shadow- the shadow of impending doom. If you look at the shadow cast by a source at a great distance, such as the sun, you will see that the rays of light in the edge are not approaching each other....the area of the event horizon might stay the same or increase with time, but it could never decrease. .. This non-decreasing property of the event horizon's area placed an important restriction on the possible behavior of black holes." _





 
_ " the boundaries of the black hole according to the two definitions would be the same, and hence so would their areas...the nondecreasing behavior of a black hole's area was very reminiscent of the behavior of a physical quantity called entropy, which measures the degree of disorder of a system. It is a matter of common experience that disorder will tend to increase if things are left to themselves. One can create order out of disorder, but that requires expenditure of effort or energy and so decreased the amount of ordered energy available. A precise statement of this idea is known as the *second law of thermodynamics*. It states that the entropy of an isolated system always increases, and that when two systems are joined together, the entropy of the combined system is greater than the sum of the entropies of the individual systems._





 
Only, we cannot even rely on this completely. ?

_ "...The second law of thermodynamic has a rather different status than that of other laws of science, such as Newton's law of gravity, because it does not hold always, just in the vast majority of cases...many millions of millions to one, ...If one has a black hold around, there seems to be a rather easier way of violating the second law: just throw some matter with a lot of entropy, such as a box of gas, down the black hole. The total entropy of matter outside the black hole would go down....the area of the event horizon increased whenever matter fell into a black hole..a research student at Princeton named Jacob Bekenstein suggested that the area of the event horizon was a measure of the entropy of the black hole...If a black hole has entropy, then it ought also to have a temperature. but a body with a particular temperature must emit radiation at a certain rate..bodies at lower temperatures emit radiation too...This radiation is required in order to prevent violation of the second law. So black holes ought to emit radiation. But, by their very definition, black holes are objects that are not supposed to emit anything..."_ 
Therefore, can the area of the event horizon of a black hole be regarded as entropy? Hawking himself becomes convinced that _"...according to the quantum mechanical uncertainty principle, rotating black holes should create and emit particles....I found, to my surprise and annoyance, that even non-rotating black holes should apparently create and emit particles at a steady rate...what finally convinced me that the emission was real was that the spectrum of the emitted particles was exactly that which would be emitted by a hot body, and that the black hole was emitting particles at exactly the correct rate to prevent violations of the second law...Since then the calculations have been repeated in a number of different forms by other people. They all confirm that a black hole ought to emit particles and radiation as if it were a hot body; the higher the mass, the lower the temperature....

How is it possible that a black hole appears to emit particles when we know that nothing can escape from within its event horizon? The answer, quantum theory tells us, is that the particles do not come from within the black hole, but from the "empty" space just outside the black hole's event horizon! ...what we think of as "empty" space cannot be completely empty because that would mean that all the fields, such as the gravitational and electromagnetic fields, would have to be exactly zero. However, the value of a field and its rate of change with time are like the position and velocity of a particle: the uncertainty principle implies that the more accurately one knows one of these quantities, the less accurately one can know the other. So in empty space the field cannot be fixed at exactly zero, because then it would have both a precise value (zero) and a precise rate of change (also zero)._

.....An infinity paradox!!!!!!!!??!!??   :laughing: :wink: :skellie: 

_There must be a certain minimum amount of uncertainty, or quantum fluctuations, in the value of the field....
there will be similar virtual pairs of matter particles, such as electrons or quarks. In this case, however, one member of the pair will be a particle and the other an antiparticle..one of the partners will have positive energy, and the other partner negative energy...the gravitational field inside a black hole is so strong that even a real particle can have negative energy there." _ 

_All above quotes in italics by *Stephen Hawking,A Brief History of Time,* Chapter 7_

Sorry if I robot-ed out... <3 an analytical and passionate SP/SX 

...Maybe this will smooth things out better...






And the mind hugs the heart...


----------



## Eclipsed

infinity paradox said:


> I feel you. We are all racing forward. Sometimes I have anxiety attacks about this. I also know what it's like to sleep time away and then mourn the fact. I hope for you that you find your dreams again soon.


I hope so too, but I'm not sure there's anything left to find. I would look harder, but there is comfort in uncertainty.



> *Perhaps there is another kind of writing, I only know this one: In the night, when fear does not let me sleep.
> - Franz Kafka *


That's a lovely quote, thank you for sharing it. Also, referring to your other post, you write beautifully.


----------



## Animal

Eclipsed said:


> you write beautifully.


She does.

So do you. 

I saw the comment on your post that "I shouldn't be posting." I sorely disagree. It's up to you of course, but as far as I'm concerned... please never hesitate to post here. It seems other posters are as moved by your honest words as I am.


----------



## drmiller100

Thanatesque said:


> I need the hurt. .


there are many levels to this writing. 

The honesty is beautiful. It stirred the protector in me.


----------



## drmiller100

Animal said:


> _We will shine_ and you will perish. It is in your nature to crush anything you don't understand - even within yourselves.


no matter how dark, no matter how desolate, there will be fire wherever you are. 

You will get it figured out soon enough and be with him again.


----------



## Animal

drmiller100 said:


> no matter how dark, no matter how desolate, there will be fire wherever you are.
> 
> You will get it figured out soon enough and be with him again.


<3 <3 <3


----------



## drmiller100

Eclipsed said:


> Th but apparently I cannot even do nothing without being unnecessarily intense.



Smiles............. And you question you have not seen your passion lately??????


----------



## cinnabun

There's been a lot of bitterness in this thread lately.

Let's just focus on good things, ok?


----------



## Eclipsed

drmiller100 said:


> Smiles............. And you question you have not seen your passion lately??????


Unfortunately, no. I post in the sx thread because there's nowhere else to go :bored:


----------



## Ace Face

Rinnie said:


> There's been a lot of bitterness in this thread lately.
> 
> Let's just focus on good things, ok?


Speaking of this thread... am I like the only one who feels like this thread can make the sx instinct seem super rapey? Is there such a thing as brain soap? My mind has been violated here on so many occasions xD

On a non-rapey note, cake farts. Nuff said. 

P.S. The cake gets raped. 

...and crop-dusted.


----------



## infinity paradox

@Wildest Rose it makes all the rest worth it. And I love the song from your signature, good memories 

@Eclipsed Thank you 
@drmiller100 A very inspiring quote that I relate to on your signature. 
@Ace Face Uhh, your avatar, signature and whole persona are kind of rapey so I'm a bit puzzled... And also you can't help being turned on by what you're turned on by... there is only masking, hiding or lying about it  But the body doesn't know how to lie...

:wink:roud::ball:


----------



## Ace Face

infinity paradox said:


> @_Ace Face_ Uhh, your avatar, signature and whole persona are kind of rapey so I'm a bit puzzled... And also you can't help being turned on by what you're turned on by... there is only masking, hiding or lying about it  But the body doesn't know how to lie...
> 
> :wink:roud::ball:


 Lol, I've been forgetting words in posts. It's supposed to say brain rapey. I never implied it was a bad thing, and if it was, I just wouldn't come to the thread at all. You get brain raped by all these different emotional expressions. It's like a competition to see who can out sx who, lol. "No, my post is more emotional and dramatic." "Lol, nooooo, no, no. My post is clearly more emotional and dramatic, and I feeeeeeel like sooooo much more than everybody else." xD

Don't mind me and my comedic social commentary. It's all in good fun


----------



## Tetsuo Shima

After skimming through a thread about Ni, which I was not able to read deeply at all because I do not _have_ Ni, I finally realized what it is, but now I'm wondering why the fuck it is so overrated.

Warning. I am currently PMSing, and I just spent an hour sitting in a social security meeting next to an annoying ESFJ aunt, so I am really fucking pissed right now.

This whole time, from the way various INTJ friends-turned-rivals of mine have described Ni, I thought it was some kind of cool psychic power. Turns out it's that shitty little function that makes you a good obedient student who listens during class and makes good grades, and I just described every INTJ I have ever met. Fuck Ni. All it does is make you a fucking drone to this society. I would rather be an ISTJ capable of developing a sufficiently advanced Ne than a fucking INTJ with no Ne whatsoever.


----------



## Ace Face

Animal said:


> I am asking you to please take the back and forth gifs elsewhere. Also, not to criticize other posters for being too negative or angry,


I never criticized anybody, and nothing I commented on isn't something I've not done myself. I think the light-hearted comedic commentary does this thread some good. And further more, I reserve the right to express how I feel in a purging thread. 



> No hard feelings, like I said. It was cute. And no, I did not examine the time stamps... I just saw a lot of posts in a row that were of a similar nature, and not the nature the thread has had, thus far, and which was intended in the OP. I don't want posters to feel like their more 'negative' sentiments are unwelcome here either, so long as that negativity isn't directed at another poster in particular and is pertaining only to their own feelings.
> 
> Really, I have no problem with anyone, and I laughed reading those posts. I just want to remind people to stay on topic. Gifs back and forth are not confessions, rants, vents or purges.


What exactly is off topic about it? Everyone purged what was on the inside... playful, flirty energy. Are you requiring that most post be about struggles or...?


----------



## cinnabun

Animal said:


> Also, not to criticize other posters for being too negative or angry


Is this about me?


----------



## Animal

Ace Face said:


> I never criticized anybody, and nothing I commented on isn't something I've not done myself. I think the light-hearted comedic commentary does this thread some good. And further more, I reserve the right to express how I feel in a purging thread.


There were a few posts, a few pages ago, in which it was pointed out that a lot of posts were angry or negative. I want to make it clear to posters that this is okay and welcome in this thread. Some people feel better after purging a bunch of negative emotions. Of course there's nothing wrong with you having feelings about it. But this is my thread, and I do want to make it clear that all purges are welcome here. 

It's one thing to vent your personal feelings. It's another to vent your feelings about the manner in which other people are posting in a thread which is intended for the exact purpose that people are complaining about. Anger, negativity, all of that is welcome. If you hate it in a more general sense, that is definitely YOUR purge and you have every right and I welcome and urge you to continue posting as much of that here as you want. Or any positive sentiments too. But the idea that " + 10 for not being in denial about the anger in this thread" - it might make some posters, who were previously enjoying having a place to purge where they could feel heard , feel more hesitant to continue sharing. And I've really enjoyed using this thread to vent my feelings myself, and I've seen that a few people felt uncomfortable about those comments. So, to rephrase, I'm asking everyone to feel free to make negative commentary or positive commentary about their own life, but not to criticize other posters for doing the same.



> What exactly is off topic about it? Everyone purged what was on the inside... playful, flirty energy. Are you requiring that most post be about struggles or...?


No. But there are some threads on perc that have silly or playful gifs going back and forth for pages and that was not my intention for this thread, so I wanted to make sure the confessions were not overwhelmed by that. "Picture my mood" is a good thread for that. Or you can start any thread you want for any topic.

Again, I am not being a stickler. The occasional post of that nature is beautiful, fine, welcome, funny, and I agree that the energy is helpful. It felt especially unhelpful when immediately following posts in which people's anger or negativity was mentioned. A lot of people are very sensitive and don't have a good place to share their anger and negativity and I want this thread to continue being a place where they feel comfortable doing that, where their negativity about their own feelings aren't under a microscope. Also, keep in mind that pointing out the anger and negativity of others, is a form of negativity in and of itself. So if you look at it that way, I'm asking people to stay positive about other posters, and stay open about their own feelings.


As for the gifs - it's fine. Nothing bad happened yet. I just don't want 100 pages of gifs back and forth here. It's not the appropriate thread for that, so I figured I'd mention it. "Rants, vents, purges, rages.." as stated in the OP, "to obtain catharsis" - is not quite the same as back and forth sexual gifs, though I'm having trouble explaining the difference in words, honestly. Anyway, I am fine with all past actions. I'm just trying to keep some coherence in the nature of the thread, and also, to retain the open atmosphere in which negative/angry vents are welcome.


----------



## Animal

Rinnie said:


> Is this about me?


Partly, yes. Again, no hard feelings at all and I enjoy your posts and welcome you to post here. I just want to remind everyone that negativity and anger (especially about one's own feelings) is welcome here.


----------



## cinnabun

Animal said:


> Partly, yes. Again, no hard feelings at all and I enjoy your posts and welcome you to post here. I just want to remind everyone that negativity and anger (especially about one's own feelings) is welcome here.


Okay. Next time, I'd appreciate it if you could quote or mention me so there's no confusion over who you're talking to.

And just to clarify, I wasn't "criticising" anyone. Had I of done that, I'd of quoted someone specifically and questioned their post. I didn't do that. All I did was express how I felt at the time, which is fair game since that's what this thread is all about.


----------



## Animal

Rinnie said:


> Okay. Next time, I'd appreciate it if you could quote or mention me so there's no confusion over who you're talking to.


I was talking in a general sense to anyone who might have been under the impression that negative rants about one's own feelings weren't welcome here, including other posters who might have wondered if their own negative feelings were welcome or not. But sure, no problem. I will do that.




> And just to clarify, I wasn't "criticising" anyone. Had I of done that, I'd of quoted someone specifically and questioned their post. I didn't do that. All I did was express how I felt at the time, which is fair game since that's what this thread is all about.


Yes, all of that is fair. No problem at all, really. I just wanted to remind everyone of the nature of the thread in case it was in question. And, please keep posting.  Your feelings are as welcome here as anyone's.


----------



## Ace Face

Animal said:


> There were a few posts, a few pages ago, in which it was pointed out that a lot of posts were angry or negative. I want to make it clear to posters that this is okay and welcome in this thread. Some people feel better after purging a bunch of negative emotions. Of course there's nothing wrong with you having feelings about it. But this is my thread, and *I do want to make it clear that all purges are welcome here.*


I'm pretty sure that much has been clear for the last 170 pages, and I'm not arrogant enough to think my measly post would influence everyone else's choices to express themselves to such an exponential degree, lol. 



> It's one thing to vent your personal feelings. It's another to vent your feelings about the manner in which other people are posting in a thread which is intended for the exact purpose that people are complaining about.


A manner in which I myself have posted on this very thread many, many times. I really don't see the problem here, lol. 



> Anger, negativity, all of that is welcome. If you hate it in a more general sense, that is definitely YOUR purge and you have every right and I welcome and urge you to continue posting as much of that here as you want. Or any positive sentiments too. But the idea that " + 10 for not being in denial about the anger in this thread" - it might make some posters, who were previously enjoying having a place to purge where they could feel heard , feel more hesitant to continue sharing.


Giving someone props for not being in denial about her anger is hardly a catalyst for preventing people from expressing themselves. 



> And I've really enjoyed using this thread to vent my feelings myself, and I've seen that a few people felt uncomfortable about those comments.


Do these people not possess the ability to speak for themselves? 



> So, to rephrase, I'm asking everyone to feel free to make negative commentary or positive commentary about their own life, but not to criticize other posters for doing the same.


It's hardly a criticism when the one making the comment has done the exact same thing time and time again. 




> No. But there are some threads on perc that have silly or playful gifs going back and forth for pages and that was not my intention for this thread, so I wanted to make sure the confessions were not overwhelmed by that. "Picture my mood" is a good thread for that. Or you can start any thread you want for any topic.


You started a thread for people to purge. What exactly makes you think you can dictate the way other people choose to express themselves? Why do you care whether or not people have a ten post conversation with each other using cute gifs as you would describe it? It seems relatively harmless. 



> Again, I am not being a stickler. The occasional post of that nature is beautiful, fine, welcome, funny, and I agree that the energy is helpful. It felt especially unhelpful when immediately following posts in which people's anger or negativity was mentioned. A lot of people are very sensitive and don't have a good place to share their anger and negativity and I want this thread to continue being a place where they feel comfortable doing that, where their negativity about their own feelings aren't under a microscope. Also, keep in mind that pointing out the anger and negativity of others, is a form of negativity in and of itself. So if you look at it that way, I'm asking people to stay positive about other posters, and stay open about their own feelings.


I'm not preventing anyone from expressing themselves on your thread. They have a right to express however they feel just as I have a right to express however I feel. If other people are going to let my commentary stop them from posting, I really don't know what to say to them other than... don't give me that much credit, lol. I'm not responsible for other people's actions, or lack thereof. 






> As for the gifs - it's fine. Nothing bad happened yet. I just don't want 100 pages of gifs back and forth here. It's not the appropriate thread for that, so I figured I'd mention it. "Rants, vents, purges, rages.." as stated in the OP, "to obtain catharsis" - is not quite the same as back and forth sexual gifs, though I'm having trouble explaining the difference in words, honestly. Anyway, I am fine with all past actions. I'm just trying to keep some coherence in the nature of the thread, and also, to retain the open atmosphere in which negative/angry vents are welcome.


Okay, so stick to doom and gloom... gotcha! ^.^


----------



## Animal

@Ace Face
I don't want to engage back and forth about this ad nauseum. Just please be respectful of other people's posts and try to stay on topic. That's all.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Tetsuo Shima said:


> This whole time, from the way various INTJ friends-turned-rivals of mine have described Ni, I thought it was some kind of cool psychic power. Turns out it's that shitty little function that makes you a good obedient student who listens during class and makes good grades, and I just described every INTJ I have ever met. Fuck Ni. All it does is make you a fucking drone to this society. I would rather be an ISTJ capable of developing a sufficiently advanced Ne than a fucking INTJ with no Ne whatsoever.


What?

(I mean, it's not a psychic power of course, but I don't see why it would necessarily make someone a drone)


----------



## beth x

*Thread warning:*

Please unleash your Sx rage and keep it on track but not at each other. Thanks.


----------



## Dalton

So I was fucking this girl, and then I stopped. She wasn't intense enough. 
So I was fucking another girl, and stopped. She wasn't intense enough either.

Sx instinct makes life hard, man.


----------



## Metalize

Ah, so this is PerC's secret high school cafeteria.


----------



## Ace Face

Animal said:


> @_Ace Face_
> I don't want to engage back and forth about this ad nauseum. Just please be respectful of other people's posts and try to stay on topic. That's all.


If other people feel disrespected by me, they are free to address me directly for themselves. I have been on topic. You can't be choosy about how people express/purge what's inside of them. If I break any rules, you can alert the moderators.


----------



## mimesis

Ace Face said:


> If other people feel disrespected by me, they are free to address me directly for themselves. I have been on topic. You can't be choosy about how people express/purge what's inside of them. If I break any rules, you can alert the moderators.


I've seen you made comments on the gist of this thread several times before. Not that I am really bothered by it, but I do wonder what underlies this urge to repeat that message, which was already loud and clear the first time?


----------



## Ace Face

mimesis said:


> I've seen you made comments on the gist of this thread several times before. Not that I am really bothered by it, but I do wonder what underlies this urge to repeat that message, which was already loud and clear the first time?


I don't know what message you're speaking of, but I would venture to guess it's because this is a thread for talking about how you feel, and I felt comfortable expressing myself in that way.


----------



## mimesis

Ace Face said:


> I don't know what message you're speaking of, but I would venture to guess it's because this is a thread for talking about how you feel, and I felt comfortable expressing myself in that way.


My impression is more that you put yourself forward as the voice of reason amidst a bunch of dramaqueens. For instance, an earlier funny pic you posted


* *















But maybe that's not just on this thread? It's not offensive to anyone in person, but ridiculing the posters of this thread to say the least.


----------



## Ace Face

mimesis said:


> My impression is more that you put yourself forward as the voice of reason amidst a bunch of dramaqueens. For instance, an earlier funny pic you posted
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But maybe that's not just on this thread? It's not offensive to anyone in person, but ridiculing the posters of this thread to say the least.


Lol, I remember that. I'm sorry, I don't find that offensive. It was comedic commentary, and I thought it lightened up a generally heavy thread. Different people, different perspectives. I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to address me about it though, even if it was posted quite some time ago. Anybody else? ^.^


----------



## mimesis

Ace Face said:


> Lol, I remember that. I'm sorry, I don't find that offensive. It was comedic commentary, and I thought it lightened up a generally heavy thread. Different people, different perspectives. I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to address me about it though, even if it was posted quite some time ago. Anybody else? ^.^


I wasn't offended. And I like you. You can either be defensive about it and claim your rights and all, or you can use it for your own advantage. But that's the last I will say about this, because I don't feel like commenting on comments made on comments or vents or purges.


----------



## Ace Face

mimesis said:


> I wasn't offended. And I like you. You can either be defensive about it and claim your rights and all, or you can use it for your own advantage. But that's the last I will say about this, because I don't feel like commenting on comments made on comments or vents or purges.


I do use it for my own advantage. If you think I don't, then I think you have selective reading  And yeah, I'm speaking up about a situation in which I've been grossly misunderstood. I don't know what else to tell those who have been offended by my posts other than this: If they're too afraid to say something to me directly, they are more than within their right to block me if their feels get hurt or if they just simply find me annoying, lol. Easy fix ^.^


----------



## Flatlander

Tetsuo Shima said:


> After skimming through a thread about Ni, which I was not able to read deeply at all because I do not _have_ Ni, I finally realized what it is, but now I'm wondering why the fuck it is so overrated.
> 
> Warning. I am currently PMSing, and I just spent an hour sitting in a social security meeting next to an annoying ESFJ aunt, so I am really fucking pissed right now.
> 
> This whole time, from the way various INTJ friends-turned-rivals of mine have described Ni, I thought it was some kind of cool psychic power. Turns out it's that shitty little function that makes you a good obedient student who listens during class and makes good grades, and I just described every INTJ I have ever met. Fuck Ni. All it does is make you a fucking drone to this society. I would rather be an ISTJ capable of developing a sufficiently advanced Ne than a fucking INTJ with no Ne whatsoever.


Your "INTJ friends-turned-rivals" are more likely to be Si types. Ni has pretty much nothing to do with paying close attention in school and acting according to precisely what is taken in, but Si might benefit from that cognitively - it benefits most from those direct experiences it takes in which are instinctively deemed most valuable to the person's database, while Ni abstracts directly away from sensory experience and devalues it in the conscious mind. Neither would govern what one likes to achieve, i.e. good grades - if that must be related to psychological type, we are now talking about the realm of enneagram motivations. You may find correlations between enneagram motivations and tendencies in cognitive type, but technically ANY cognitive type can pertain to ANY enneagram motivation and the tendencies that exist are loose at best.

Also, ISTJ people with "sufficiently advanced Ne" aren't likely to exist among a younger generation. That takes significant time to develop in their lives, like it'd probably have to be past middle age or they probably aren't ISTJ types in the first place. I think people usually grow into more regular contact and maturity with their TERTIARY around 30s-40s, and for the ISTJ that'd be Fi.


----------



## drmiller100

Flatlander said:


> Y I think people usually grow into more regular contact and maturity with their TERTIARY around 30s-40s, and for the ISTJ that'd be Fi.


I agree with the rest of your post, but disagree slightly with this one. Many people start developing their tertiary in their early/mid 20's, and this coincides with the "growing up" out of the teens. One example is a LOT of ENTPs find Fe developing early 20's which brings them out of their shell, helps them develop social skills, and differentiates them from INTP's. 

INFJ's start developing Ti about the same time. Etc. 

Non-safe teen years, addictions, developmental issues, or several other issues can postpone this into the timeframe you describe.


----------



## Flatlander

drmiller100 said:


> I agree with the rest of your post, but disagree slightly with this one. Many people start developing their tertiary in their early/mid 20's, and this coincides with the "growing up" out of the teens. One example is a LOT of ENTPs find Fe developing early 20's which brings them out of their shell, helps them develop social skills, and differentiates them from INTP's.
> 
> INFJ's start developing Ti about the same time. Etc.
> 
> Non-safe teen years, addictions, developmental issues, or several other issues can postpone this into the timeframe you describe.


When I say 'developing', I mean in depth. I don't mean it starts poking its head, it starts to do that long before the point I mentioned, but it tends to cause turbulence when it does that before a certain point of maturity. I'm turning 30 and just now starting to be okay with "using" Fi, or having it as a significant force in my life, so at this time it can start to develop itself as a normal, USEFUL point of view. I imagine by the time I hit 40, it'll be a healthy part of my life. But in my 20s it contributed to internal issues and discombobulation when it came up, the more in-depth the worse. And in my teens and below it was submerged at best, which is where I used to like it. My brother tended to lash out with his tertiary in his late 20s, and at 32 still struggles in some ways with honoring it as part of himself, and he's a relatively normal guy. The one thing we most have in common here is high intelligence, so if you want to, perhaps you can claim that's part of it, but I don't think either of our stages in development is abnormal. Besides which this trend seems to repeat itself in a lot of people I have met and dealt with extensively.

It doesn't seem likely to find someone with even a well-developed tertiary in their 20s. Unless they're perfect human beings with no internal problems to resolve.


----------



## drmiller100

Flatlander said:


> When I say 'developing', I mean in depth. I don't mean it starts poking its head, it starts to do that long before the point I mentioned, but it tends to cause turbulence when it does that before a certain point of maturity. I'm turning 30 and just now starting to be okay with "using" (if we can call it that) Fi. I imagine by the time I hit 40, it'll be a healthy part of my life. But in my 20s it contributed to internal issues and discombobulation when it came up, the more in-depth the worse. And in my teens and below it was submerged at best, which is where I used to like it. My brother tended to lash out with his tertiary in his late 20s, and at 32 still struggles with honoring it as part of himself, and he's a relatively normal guy. The one thing we most have in common here is high intelligence, so if you want to, perhaps you can claim that's part of it, but I don't think either of our stages in development is abnormal. Besides which this trend seems to repeat itself in a lot of people I have met and dealt with extensively.
> 
> It doesn't seem likely to find someone with even a well-developed tertiary in their 20s. Unless they're perfect human beings with no internal problems to resolve.


Thank you for spending the time to explain your thoughts on this issue. We do agree. 

My Ne tends to be more focused on the "start of things", and you appear to be more focused on "fully developing". 

FWIW, I'm 48. Fe still fucks with me hard, and I'm far from "mastering" it, or fully developing it. Hell, for that matter my Ti is still getting more effective. 

Thank god my inferior function hasn't snuck up on me yet...... (smiles)


----------



## Ace Face

As with every work place, there always has to be one drama queen making mountains out of mole hills. Oh, and we also have a very fervent southern baptist Bible thumper who constantly uses the Scripture out of context. If I have any pet peeves, that right there is the biggest. We'll see how long she lasts with me around, lol. This is going to be really fun--I can tell.


----------



## Flatlander

drmiller100 said:


> Thank you for spending the time to explain your thoughts on this issue. We do agree.
> 
> My Ne tends to be more focused on the "start of things", and you appear to be more focused on "fully developing".
> 
> FWIW, I'm 48. Fe still fucks with me hard, and I'm far from "mastering" it, or fully developing it. Hell, for that matter my Ti is still getting more effective.
> 
> Thank god my inferior function hasn't snuck up on me yet...... (smiles)


Man do I know that feeling. Fi can still fuck with me too. I just have finally recognized its place in things and I'm more able to own my opinions and judgements as opposed to just my thoughts.


----------



## FakeLefty

drmiller100 said:


> Thank you for spending the time to explain your thoughts on this issue. We do agree.
> 
> My Ne tends to be more focused on the "start of things", and you appear to be more focused on "fully developing".
> 
> FWIW, I'm 48. Fe still fucks with me hard, and I'm far from "mastering" it, or fully developing it. Hell, for that matter my Ti is still getting more effective.
> 
> Thank god my inferior function hasn't snuck up on me yet...... (smiles)


Huh. It's gonna be interesting to see how my Ni will mess with me (unless I'm mistyped). I'm 20, so I'm getting to the point where my tertiary function starts developing.


----------



## Gorgon

The concept of "otherness" has always been fascinating to me, I even devoted a thread to it in the four forum as it is fitting with the ontology of the four. Copied word-for-word from that post (first paragraph):

In phenomenology, otherness or the "Other" is defined as anything other than the self. In sociology, the Other is defined as any group or persons different from the dominant culture. This positionality confers a sense of alienation, disenfranchisement, and abjection. The dominant culture or narrative defines the relation while the Other is defined by the relation.

For de Beauvoir, the Other of man is the female, and for Foucault, the Other of normative society are social deviants (i.e. the mentally ill, prisoners, sexual deviants, and other socio-economically disenfranchised groups). @Donovan's last post poignantly and beautifully illustrates the Other (the shadow self) within oneself. The dominant narrative shapes how the minority narrative(s) is constructed, both in how the dominant culture sees them and how the minority groups see themselves.

Fours take their difference for granted. This is their natural state of being. How they deal with their otherness is the most interesting part. Even in trying to distinguish yourself, you're still tied to the dominant narrative to some degree.


----------



## cinnabun

You know what's awesome? Loving yourself.


More of us women need to start doing that. It's amazing...you feel so enlightened when you start being kinder to yourself.


I mean, if you can't love yourself, how on earth do you expect anyone else to? It's so sad and cringe. Why do some people stoop so low just for a bit of attention? Like...idk...purging on camera just to get a guy to notice you? Talk about embarassing.


Have a bit more self respect, please. I promise its worth it, Felicia.


----------



## Daeva

I'm craving for your touch, your smile, your voice, your scent, your biting my face.

Soon, we'll be whole again..


----------



## Animal

My body is aching for your touch. Every night the weight in my chest grows heavier. I sleep longer, I write with less enthusiasm, I can't eat enough. 

But then I remember what it felt like to go to sleep, to wake up, to exist... before I met you. When hope was nothing more than a concept that was shared by a foreign species that I never belonged to.

I remember what I felt like less than a year ago...

2/17/2015



Animal said:


> I don't believe in love anymore.
> 
> Much like God is a personal experience, I acknowledge that Love is a personal experience.
> If you believe in God, then, God is real to you. And I accept that you may be right.
> Likewise, if you believe in Love, it is real to you.
> 
> Love may exist for others.
> And I don't doubt that your love is true.
> I believe you. I believe it is real because you name it, you embrace it, you own it and you believe it.
> It is simply the most sacred thing on Earth and it remains sacred in my eyes as well.
> 
> But, I do not believe I can be loved.
> I can be admired, seduced, chased, adored... but not loved.
> The moment I love someone back, they can't handle my passion.
> 
> I am like a wildfire. Everyone watches from their windows as it consumes the faraway mountaintops. Their minds are filled with dreams and fears as they stare in awe at the beautiful chaos before them. But if that fire comes too close to their home, they will go to any length to put it out.
> 
> I have suffered a lot in my life. I've had my heart broken beyond belief, twice in the past. I lost my voice, my passion, my everything. I lost my autonomy. But through all my losses, I still believed in love. I still believed that one day, I would find love.
> 
> I cannot believe it anymore. I can be admired, and men can obsess over me and praise me to the skies, and believe me, they do. But the moment I become vulnerable, and I am no longer an exciting chase, they are turned off, gone. I am no longer beautiful in my honest, bare, bleeding form. My vulnerable emotions, my caring, my tears, my will to give and give, to merge, to BECOME this passion that consumes me, to be there for him when he falls, to admire him, to sing his praises... it arouses terror and hatred.
> 
> I know how to play chase-me. I can win that game every time. But I do not know how to share my true, honest, vulnerable heart without scaring men away.
> 
> Please, if you believe in love, do not let my musings implement doubt in your minds. You are not me. You can be loved. I cannot.
> 
> 
> Consider my faith abandoned.



You gave me hope that I thought was lost forever, or perhaps, that I never had to begin with. You saved me from myself, and also awakened me for everything that I truly am.

Consider my hopelessness abandoned. 



* *





And for a 4, that hopelessness is closer to my heart than faith ever was. But you have set me free.


----------



## Animal

Sun Daeva said:


> I'm craving for your touch, your smile, your voice, your scent, your biting my face.
> 
> Soon, we'll be whole again..


It's so beautiful that we just started our posts with almost the same sentence at the same time :,( 

I love you <3 <3 <3


----------



## Golden Rose

I'm grateful for meeting someone with a soul that is intense, passionate and gorgeous inside out. Someone who can understand my darkness and whose darkness I can understand without any need to force the other to change but rather just grow together and flow naturally. We're both flawed ad human and there's something breathtakingly amazing about it. I've been struggling with a lot of issues in my life, I still live in a troubled way and the world never lets me forget about it because there's a certain lack of empathy in people, empathy is something that cannot be faked. But I'm thankful for being in love with a real artist who can appreciate my flaws and see beauty and perfection in them. Someone who sincerely adores all what I've always feared was disgusting in me. Genuine respect is understanding someone to the core, it's understanding yourself deeply and being unafraid of who you are.

Emotional, sensual and passionate communion of minds and souls.
I hope others will find something so powerful as well, anger is a bitter cancer that eats your spirit.


----------



## Daeva

Animal said:


> It's so beautiful that we just started our posts with almost the same sentence at the same time :,(
> 
> I love you <3 <3 <3


_It _is beautiful <3

I love you ❤❤❤


----------



## Animal

Sun Daeva said:


> It is beautiful <3
> 
> I love you ❤❤❤








* *






"Heaven Coming Down"

With nothing to do you'd waste away
Obscure in exile
They've witnessed the times
You've gone astray
Whose fault? now you're thinking...

Theres's nothing to prove
A message from the crowd
To the shore...

And it feels now
Just like heaven's coming down
Your soul shakes free
As its conscience hits the ground

So strange are the ways,
They all have changed
Still life it stays the same
A break from the past
Could make it last
Maybe just a little longer

There's nothing to prove
A message from the crowd
To the shore...

You surrender
Love under will
Rest assured you're adored

And it feels now
Just like heaven's coming down
Your soul shakes free
As its conscience hits the ground
These signs, this fate
Takes a path you didn't choose
Stay Strong, Keep Faith
There is a change that's
Coming through
Hold on my love
Hold on...





We don't need to go back to our home planet.
All we need is to stay true to what we are, together.


I will never forget that I saw your eyes in a dream before we met. And I knew.. in my heart.. I would meet you. I knew, and I could not fight off the instinct. But I did not dare to hope. You had enough hope for both of us, all along.


----------



## Rala

@Animal @Sun Daeva you guys make me cry, but you also creep me out. I mean not you, just the thought and the fear of actually never reaching an inner peace and sense of being complete by myself without "the other half". I don't want to long for someone all of my life, I don't want to NEED. That maybe explains my selfishness. 

Am I even a SX 4...


----------



## Golden Rose

Rala said:


> I don't want to long for someone all of my life, I don't want to NEED. That maybe explains my selfishness.
> 
> Am I even a SX 4...


It's never a choice, it's a strike of lightening out of nowhere.
This is the perfect metaphor since it pierces through any dark sky.

I can understand the feeling, I often reject my integration to 1 because feeling so broken is part of my identity to the point that having my flaws highlighted to me becomes pride rather than shame. Sx/sp. Craving and endurance. Contempt and resilience. Envy for something that doesn't even exist, if not in my head. But then it all clears out and you abandon the muddy disintegration-to-2 road and simply realize that being the way you are isn't a sin, it shouldn't be neither a source of pride nor shame. It's like breathing, it's like walking, it's you. Not many people have the gift (and the curse) of intense self awareness and vulnerability but that's what also creates strength and allows you to read right through people, a deeper understanding. Being an INFP 486 is so fucking weird, isn't it? It's nuts.

But that kind of love, just conquers you.
Maybe you've been longing for it, maybe you've been rejecting it but it completes you and makes you feel whole. Whether you want it or not but you'll want it. Trust me, you'll want it so bad.

@Animal and @Sun Daeva are gorgeous people.
They made me believe in soulmates again, it's crazy to think about how fast and deeply it all bloomed.


----------



## Rala

Wildest Rose said:


> It's never a choice, it's a strike of lightening out of nowhere.
> This is the perfect metaphor since it pierces through any dark sky.
> 
> I can understand the feeling, I often reject my integration to 1 because feeling so broken is part of my identity to the point that having my flaws highlighted to me becomes pride rather than shame. Sx/sp. Craving and endurance. Contempt and resilience. Envy for something that doesn't even exist, if not in my head. But then it all clears out and you abandon the muddy disintegration-to-2 road and simply realize that being the way you are isn't a sin, it shouldn't be neither a source of pride nor shame. It's like breathing, it's like walking, it's you. Not many people have the gift (and the curse) of intense self awareness and vulnerability but that's what also creates strength and allows you to read right through people, a deeper understanding. Being an INFP 486 is so fucking weird, isn't it? It's nuts.
> 
> But that kind of love, just conquers you.
> Maybe you've been longing for it, maybe you've been rejecting it but it completes you and makes you feel whole. Whether you want it or not but you'll want it. Trust me, you'll want it so bad.
> 
> @Animal and @Sun Daeva are gorgeous people.
> They made me believe in soulmates again, it's crazy to think about how fast and deeply it all bloomed.


I know they are! <3

Funny you mention the "strike of lightening" thing. I was talking with someone just a couple of minutes earlier about meaning behind names and mine is "ray of light" (Raluca = ray of light/sunshine), and I was telling them how I am more of a "strike of lightening", the exact words I used. This whole thing only made me more frustrated since everything just reminds me of the gap that exists between who I wanted to be and who I actually am.

Anyway, I DO want it, but I do not WANT to want it. If only I could be the love of my life. I think I could make it to the end of my life without breaking my own heart if I tried hard enough. How can I trust someone outside myself that I have no control over whatsoever NOT to break me?


----------



## Gorgon

*Mad Girl's Love Song by Sylvia Plath*

I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead;
I lift my lids and all is born again.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)

The stars go waltzing out in blue and red,
And arbitrary blackness gallops in:
I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead.

I dreamed that you bewitched me into bed
And sung me moon-struck, kissed me quite insane.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)

God topples from the sky, hell's fires fade:
Exit seraphim and Satan's men:
I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead.

I fancied you'd return the way you said,
But I grow old and I forget your name.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)

I should have loved a thunderbird instead;
At least when spring comes they roar back again.
I shut my eyes and all the world drops dead.
(I think I made you up inside my head.)


----------



## Gorgon

I have a question for @Rala and @Wildest Rose (hopefully this isn't off topic), but how is it like being being a sx-dom triple reactive? I'm just wondering because people with that tritype fascinate me. I feel like I can relate to them, but at the same time their bluntness and forcefulness can be intimidating (yet refreshing).


----------



## Animal

Swordsman of Mana said:


> #1w9Fix


Just to throw this out there: I have yet to encounter a "diplomatic" 1 when they think they're right. I don't know where the hell people are getting that. Martin Luther King Jr. is an 8w9 quite clearly, and he's a lot more diplomatic.. "Fight hate with love," "Don't give them the power to make you hate," etc - much more than any 1w9 or 1 fixer I can think of.. as 1s are very "the end justifies the means" and will plow through anything to be a bringer of justice and rightness. So this whole "diplomatic therefore 1" idea is off base, in general.

Also you type as a 1w9 fixer and I've never seen you behave in this particular way.


I have nothing against debating 1 fix for real reasons, and in fact I have a few ongoing conversations about it, but this type of reasoning about 1 vs 8 is completely divorced from reality.


This post is more 1ish than the thing you quoted.  ...except that you type at 1w9 fix and I never see you answer with this kind of force against other people... you just stubbornly hold your opinion and write a taunt here or there once in a while (like this one), with no substantial case attached, but don't shove your arguments forth in the way I do. So if I'm a 1w9 fixer, by your logic, then by that same logic you'd have to be a 9w1 fixer.. :shocked: 

By any logic, it just doesn't make sense for us to have the same gut fix though we have other things in common. How we handle anger, boundaries and force is not one of them.


----------



## Golden Rose

I want to thank @Rala and @Thanatesque for inquiring more about triple reactives, mostly because the sharp contrast in between our answers made me realize I'm not one. It started as a faint suggestion but @Animal sapiently scrambled my types again. Others close to me, all seem to agree. 

I do too, it makes a lot more sense.
But I'm not her to discuss this at all but rather be thankful for helping us connect the final dots.

I don't think that discussing a type before realizing it's the wrong fit generates any misconceptions.
If anything it creates an organic way to question yourself and whether something fits or doesn't.

-------

Life is being so good to me, in spite of any storms, and on the right path to grow even better.
I love every last drop of it, every forgotten crumb tastes incredible.
It's still hard to let all sink in because of how insane it feels. In a good, permanent way.


----------



## Ace Face

The best thing about work is watching the dynamic between some of these people. Entertainment is an understatement, lol.


----------



## Rala

Wildest Rose said:


> Life is being so good to me, in spite of any storms, and on the right path to grow even better.
> I love every last drop of it, every forgotten crumb tastes incredible.
> It's still hard to let all sink in because of how insane it feels. In a good, permanent way.


I am glad to hear all this! <3

Regarding your new typing, I want to hear all about it, though!


----------



## Golden Rose

Rala said:


> I am glad to hear all this! <3
> 
> Regarding your new typing, I want to hear all about it, though!


I already have it all sorted out but I need to find the right words to put it although I've already started to drop snippets here and there. I'm still not fully 'up for the day' so I want to prepare and write something that's actually good and accurate (I've started to notice all the stereotypical type 5 things I tend to say, that statement included, and it's fucking with my head a little. In a fun way but still...)

But a curious thing I already want to push forward is how you seemed to be heavily focused on the fact that you're a very outwardly aggressive person and never in need of anyone while I vocalized the polar opposite kind of feeling. It was curious and I was already considering a 5 fix rather than a 6 one (already upgraded to 6w5) before @Animal finally asked me how I'd feel about being a core 5 again and showing me how candid I am with my envy, how completely unsmooth I am with image matters and how most of my behavior is fueled by being able to understand both other people and my own feelings to the core. How extremely detached/inexpressive I am yet full of powerful emotion under the surface, dry in my delivery and extremely persistent in my tracks. Greed. Not wanting to lose what I have, always fearing to be unable to match up to people's standards even when I'm secure of my skills.

548 is a very dark tritype. 

If 468 is the most intense and physically commanding, 458 is the most mentally powerful.
No one knows what to expect out of them, observant and storing all reactions (even immediate ones where you can definitely see my 8w7 shine) away for a later use. Learning through errors although errors are unbearable. Identity and knowledge being a source of power and competency.

Lingering melancholy and a feeling of isolation. Linked to INFP rather than thinking types, it gives off a curious effect. I sound both more 4ish and more thinker like at once but it makes a more painful contrast between awareness/detachment. Kurt Cobain was a sx 5w4 INFP, 549 perhaps.

Two odd things.

1. I've always typed as either 4 or 5 or occasionally 7. Now I understand why.
5 disintegrates to 7 in extremely clumsy and devastating ways. Also explaining my adoration for 8s.
(though sx 3w4 and sx5w4 make a better match but I'm biased, don't listen to me ;D)

2. Once I wanted to write a story about a sx/sp 5w4 INFP child as I thought this was the most tragic type.
I ended up realizing I was describing myself just recently. Still feels odd. Still wanting to write it.

Ended up typing more than planned but this thread seems quite lovely at the time being.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

Animal said:


> Just to throw this out there: I have yet to encounter a "diplomatic" 1 when they think they're right. I don't know where the hell people are getting that. Martin Luther King Jr. is an 8w9 quite clearly, and he's a lot more diplomatic.. "Fight hate with love," "Don't give them the power to make you hate," etc - much more than any 1w9 or 1 fixer I can think of.. as 1s are very "the end justifies the means" and will plow through anything to be a bringer of justice and rightness. So this whole "diplomatic therefore 1" idea is off base, in general.
> 
> Also you type as a 1w9 fixer and I've never seen you behave in this particular way.
> 
> 
> I have nothing against debating 1 fix for real reasons, and in fact I have a few ongoing conversations about it, but this type of reasoning about 1 vs 8 is completely divorced from reality.
> 
> 
> This post is more 1ish than the thing you quoted.  ...except that you type at 1w9 fix and I never see you answer with this kind of force against other people... you just stubbornly hold your opinion and write a taunt here or there once in a while (like this one), with no substantial case attached, but don't shove your arguments forth in the way I do. So if I'm a 1w9 fixer, by your logic, then by that same logic you'd have to be a 9w1 fixer.. :shocked:
> 
> By any logic, it just doesn't make sense for us to have the same gut fix though we have other things in common. How we handle anger, boundaries and force is not one of them.


actually, when the person I'm debating is clearly a disrespectful fool who is resorting to petty tactics (I can think of several on this forum), I am usually far faster to dish out punches than you are. when I'm debating someone who is worthy of respect and keeps a level head, then yes, I behave more like you mentioned, especially if the issue is more minor (I'm more interested in making progress when debating friends anyway. 

where we are similar is in our quickness to scold people we believe to be showing disrespect, passive-aggression or just general poor character. 8 fixers do this too, but they are slower on the uptake and tend to present it less moralistically. 8 fixers do not share your patience for thoroughly explaining why someone's behavior is wrong and needs correcting. they typically just say something short and move on.


----------



## Animal

Swordsman of Mana said:


> actually, when the person I'm debating is clearly a disrespectful fool who is resorting to petty tactics (I can think of several on this forum), I am usually far faster to dish out punches than you are. when I'm debating someone who is worthy of respect and keeps a level head, then yes, I behave more like you mentioned, especially if the issue is more minor (I'm more interested in making progress when debating friends anyway.


Yeah.. I agree with all of this. 



> where we are similar is in our quickness to scold people we believe to be showing disrespect, passive-aggression or just general poor character. 8 fixers do this too, but they are slower on the uptake and tend to present it less moralistically. 8 fixers do not share your patience for thoroughly explaining why someone's behavior is wrong and needs correcting. they typically just say something short and move on.


I know what you mean. We can discuss fixes in private... my stance on my fix is a bit more complicated than I want to cover here. I appreciate feedback though.


----------



## Rala

Wildest Rose said:


> I already have it all sorted out but I need to find the right words to put it although I've already started to drop snippets here and there. I'm still not fully 'up for the day' so I want to prepare and write something that's actually good and accurate (I've started to notice all the stereotypical type 5 things I tend to say, that statement included, and it's fucking with my head a little. In a fun way but still...)
> 
> But a curious thing I already want to push forward is how you seemed to be heavily focused on the fact that you're a very outwardly aggressive person and never in need of anyone while I vocalized the polar opposite kind of feeling. It was curious and I was already considering a 5 fix rather than a 6 one (already upgraded to 6w5) before @Animal finally asked me how I'd feel about being a core 5 again and showing me how candid I am with my envy, how completely unsmooth I am with image matters and how most of my behavior is fueled by being able to understand both other people and my own feelings to the core. How extremely detached/inexpressive I am yet full of powerful emotion under the surface, dry in my delivery and extremely persistent in my tracks. Greed. Not wanting to lose what I have, always fearing to be unable to match up to people's standards even when I'm secure of my skills.
> 
> 548 is a very dark tritype.
> 
> If 468 is the most intense and physically commanding, 458 is the most mentally powerful.
> No one knows what to expect out of them, observant and storing all reactions (even immediate ones where you can definitely see my 8w7 shine) away for a later use. Learning through errors although errors are unbearable. Identity and knowledge being a source of power and competency.
> 
> Lingering melancholy and a feeling of isolation. Linked to INFP rather than thinking types, it gives off a curious effect. I sound both more 4ish and more thinker like at once but it makes a more painful contrast between awareness/detachment. Kurt Cobain was a sx 5w4 INFP, 549 perhaps.
> 
> Two odd things.
> 
> 1. I've always typed as either 4 or 5 or occasionally 7. Now I understand why.
> 5 disintegrates to 7 in extremely clumsy and devastating ways. Also explaining my adoration for 8s.
> (though sx 3w4 and sx5w4 make a better match but I'm biased, don't listen to me ;D)
> 
> 2. Once I wanted to write a story about a sx/sp 5w4 INFP child as I thought this was the most tragic type.
> I ended up realizing I was describing myself just recently. Still feels odd. Still wanting to write it.
> 
> Ended up typing more than planned but this thread seems quite lovely at the time being.


I am really curious to read it all when you do. I want to say though, I like and envy the way you always explain things. You give it a lot of thought and put it on paper in an interesting way, different than @Animal too. She always writes these very long posts just like you, but you guys have different styles. Hell, me and her have different styles too, I think. 

I personally mistyped twice. At first, when I barely knew anything about Enneagram and just started getting into it, I thought I was a 4w5. But that was because that was my test result and because I hadn't really read about the wings in depth. And when I heard about tritypes, I thought I was a 478. I was sure of my gut fix, but my head fix gave me fucking headaches and I remember being so frustrated because I was like "who the fuck am I?", then @Animal showed up like a little ball of fairy-like magic that made me go "ahhh".

Anyway, I thought about and wanted to say many more things while in the shower, but now my mind is kind of blank and perhaps it's better this way 'cause I would be derailing this thread a bit.


----------



## Rala

What the hell did I mean by "put it on paper" XD I'll change that to "put it into words". I'm retarded.


----------



## Golden Rose

Rala said:


> I am really curious to read it all when you do. I want to say though, I like and envy the way you always explain things. You give it a lot of thought and put it on paper in an interesting way, different than @Animal too. She always writes these very long posts just like you, but you guys have different styles. Hell, me and her have different styles too, I think.
> 
> I personally mistyped twice. At first, when I barely knew anything about Enneagram and just started getting into it, I thought I was a 4w5. But that was because that was my test result and because I hadn't really read about the wings in depth. And when I heard about tritypes, I thought I was a 478. I was sure of my gut fix, but my head fix gave me fucking headaches and I remember being so frustrated because I was like "who the fuck am I?", then @Animal showed up like a little ball of fairy-like magic that made me go "ahhh".
> 
> Anyway, I thought about and wanted to say many more things while in the shower, but now my mind is kind of blank and perhaps it's better this way 'cause I would be derailing this thread a bit.


My mind is still a bit clogged, mostly because of many stepping stones in my way and sudden revelations/good news which make me feel happy and full but also cause some kind of social/emotional hangover. Over-dissecting my thoughts ad feelings is usually a consequence because I head straight up into my "am I dreaming?" state of mind. I'm obviously not but I need recharging before any kind of action.

Riding manic feelings in a satisfied but exhausted state of mine is never the best.

A lot of things make a frightening amount of sense though. My need to have everything all lined up and understood, the way I deal with decisions (indifferent if it doesn't matter, hesitant at first but then straight to the point once I got all the information I need), my discomfort with getting unnecessarily dragged in the spotlight and misread, my competence being undermined. This is a strong point with me because I'm very guarded with my skills, knowledge and creations, much more so than I am with my flaws, envy and feelings. I'm usually very matter of fact with those while being doubted in my potential, my identity, all that I've learned and built and felt passionate towards is something too painful for me to accept although only if it comes from a genuine source. Growing up I had my own talent and intelligence (this sounds like a humblebrag, I hope it doesn't) dismissed and elevated to a 'freak status' a lot, especially matched with my not-so-brilliant social skills so I've learned to curb it and observe more than I share. Neglect it even. A core 4 (at least sexual) tends to have a lot more pride than I do; they see power under a complete different light and also strength/weaknesses under yet another different light. I'm still very much 4 fixed and threading the line if my wings are correct the way they are but undoubtedly a core 5 after some deep inquisitions and discussing it with the two people who know me the most. Or rather _actually know_ me. 

I got sidetracked but thanks for the compliment about my posts!
I can be brief but I love being a lot more detailed, as a writer it feels nicer and more accurate.
I often worry about not being able to explain things properly and effectively so wow. Thanks. <3

Me and @Animal have a lot of similarities but a lot of differences too.
Now I can see it all.

This typing explains a lot better my interactions with other types. 
Namely 2-8 (same power triad, different focus), 3, 4 and 7. It's interesting, really.
So being back inside the 5w4 box isn't that bad, I was already thinking of this tritype.


----------



## ENIGMA2019

Wytch said:


> I am at my utmost vulnerable with my SO, I love it because I never feel I can be vulnerable otherwise but it puts me in a dangerous position. So, it really is scary for me to do that, to allow someone to hurt me.
> It's kind like I have an open wound while I'm swimming with sharks.


I could not have described it any better! That is a 100% dead on.


----------



## cinnabun

@Wytch You're so cute. I just wanted to say that, and I think you're awesome and relatable xD.


----------



## cinnabun

This weekend was good. I had a lot of fun. I let my hair down and just lived, you know? I feel like...I go through these solid periods where I seem to "clam up" from the rest of the world, and get lost in my own bubble. 

Then the bubble starts to feel suffocating, and I begin to miss the real world, so I burst it and just go out and live. It's great, really great. I want to start doing that more. I'm not saying I'm going to be this super extroverted party girl, that's never been me...and never will be, but it's nice to just...get out there and experience shit.

I don't want to jinx things, but it seems like things are only going to get better. Hopefully I'll still be this positive after my first therapy session this week xD.


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Wildest Rose said:


> Namely 2-8 (same power triad, different focus), 3, 4 and *7*.


Now I'm curious. *u*


----------



## Golden Rose

Luke Skywalker said:


> Now I'm curious. *u*


I've always felt a connection with 7 and understood its darker sides (usually the ones not even a core 7 wants to talk about) because 7 is on my disintegration line which means that I go absolutely bonkers when I'm overwhelmed. In a way I am now too. It comes across as some kind of really manic energy independent from my illnesses and such in which I tend to be very restless and more reactive than usual and where my self image becomes a lot more warped and entitled. I think my eating disorder/addictions/drinking have some small roots in this because a 5's avarice turns to unleashed gluttony and overstimulation in order to fill up my mind when I feel unprepared and unable to find simple solutions. But for a very reserved type, this kind of recklessness becomes very clumsy and quite unhealthy. Because escapism is not my ideal way of dealing with any kind of positive or negative pressure so adding up too much at once only wears me out until the time to unclutter my mind comes again. This is why I tend to sound a lot more reactive than I am, especially through text while I hardly give out any visible reactions. I'm easily worn out by too much excess.

I generally adore 7s though, I like being around 7s in bursts. They can be a lot to handle (but you're INFP).
Sometimes their logic really escapes me or reminds me of my worst but I tend to like them as people.

That includes you, son!


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Wildest Rose said:


> I've always felt a connection with 7 and understood its darker sides (usually the ones not even a core 7 wants to talk about) because 7 is on my disintegration line which means that I go absolutely bonkers when I'm overwhelmed. In a way I am now too. It comes across as some kind of really manic energy independent from my illnesses and such in which I tend to be very restless and more reactive than usual and where my self image becomes a lot more warped and entitled. I think my eating disorder/addictions/drinking have some small roots in this because a 5's avarice turns to unleashed gluttony and overstimulation in order to fill up my mind when I feel unprepared and unable to find simple solutions. But for a very reserved type, this kind of recklessness becomes very clumsy and quite unhealthy. Because escapism is not my ideal way of dealing with any kind of positive or negative pressure so adding up too much at once only wears me out until the time to unclutter my mind comes again. This is why I tend to sound a lot more reactive than I am, especially through text while I hardly give out any visible reactions. I'm easily worn out by too much excess.
> 
> I generally adore 7s though, I like being around 7s in bursts. They can be a lot to handle (but you're INFP).
> Sometimes their logic really escapes me or reminds me of my worst but I tend to like them as people.


Hmm, there's a lot of reading I gotta do. But I can see how it differs from my experience. Particularly in how I'm much more comfortable with my sevenness, apparently, and more aware of it. And frankly kind of angry with it too. Such a slacker. Or it might be just how I'm feeling now.



> That includes you, son!


----------



## Golden Rose

Luke Skywalker said:


> Hmm, there's a lot of reading I gotta do. But I can see how it differs from my experience. Particularly in how I'm much more comfortable with my sevenness, apparently, and more aware of it. And frankly kind of angry with it too. Such a slacker. Or it might be just how I'm feeling now.


Well, I'm a core 5 while you are a core 7 so of course you're comfortable with it. 
This kind of discomfort for you would come by disintegrating to 1 under stress so feeling a lot more guilt and frustration than usual, a lot more anger and self restraint, planning frantically and going on moral rampages. It's quite fascinating.

Good thing is that 5 is in your integration line so technically I'm your health mentor in a way (...you're screwed). But this explains why we get along so smoothly.



Luke Skywalker said:


>












Hope we're not getting off topic.


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Wildest Rose said:


> Well, I'm a core 5 while you are a core 7 so of course you're comfortable with it.
> This kind of discomfort for you would come by disintegrating to 1 under stress so feeling a lot more guilt and frustration than usual, a lot more anger and self restraint, planning frantically and going on moral rampages. It's quite fascinating.
> 
> Good thing is that 5 is in your integration line so technically I'm your health mentor in a way (...you're screwed). But this explains why we get along so smoothly.


Explains our father-daughter relationship, dad.



> Hope we're not getting off topic.


I like it.










Hehe I loved this film.


----------



## Animal

I am not a wife, a mother or a caretaker. I will never cook three elaborate meals a day, every day. I will never scrub and dust every surface in the house twice a week. I will never clean up diapers as a daily activity. I will never choose a life of driving people around, scolding them, spending every scent I have on them. I don't dote. I don't wake up in the middle of the night to do someone's bidding, at the expense of my own sanity. Some people want this life and it makes them happy - and I commend them for finding something that makes them happy, and doing it. This is not meant to shame them, but to acknowledge, that I am just not an ever-loving doter by nature. There are some people who are truly built to love, to dote, to live for others - and some of them keep the world turning, so I am glad they exist. But I was born with a defect that prevents me from joining their ranks. I was born with a terrible hunger to be my own person.

I am comfortable when people in my life to know what they want, know who they are, have a sense of responsibility, have some independence, challenge me, call me on my own bullshit, stand up for themselves, clean up after themselves, dream for themselves. I am honored to share responsibility, to be interdependent with my soulmate, and to dream together. I hate that the concepts of "codependent" or "whipped" are so overused and frowned upon, because it implies that two people, being joined as a cohesive whole and sharing a vision, sharing each other's company, and taking on burdens as a team, is a bad thing. Those are beautiful to me. I would be happy, honored and blessed to share losses, gains, dreams, failures, battles and victories with my partner. 

What I don't want, is to be shoved into a wife role that has nothing to do with who I am. I want to work hard, I want to strive, I want to earn money despite my condition, I want my book to be a movie, I want my songs to be heard, I want blood, sweat and tears of my own. I am sick, and if he is working more, I am honored to take on more housework because we will be a team and that might be the way it works out sometimes, especially because of my illness. But I love that my partner, my soulmate, my twin flame, @_Sun Daeva_ , is on the same page about this. We both understand that these balances must exist for realistic reasons, but he would never expect me to be a textbook wife or mother. He knows he is marrying a tiger, and in my heart I_ truly believe_ that he loves it. I had never thought that possible. A lot of men have loved the idea of me, my wildness, my art, my fire, my claws.. but when it comes down to it, they marry a wife, a mother, a caretaker. They ask me to marry them and growl and whine and complain when I'm not interested, but what they don't realize is that they are asking red to be pink. It won't do.

I won't be shamed into taking on these roles. Friends, family, crowd pressure, rejection, lost love in the past... nothing has ever managed to turn me into something I'm not. I suffered heartache after heartache on behalf of being myself, and I will continue to until my dying day.

This is not about being accepted with flaws in the sense of being "allowed" to hurt my partner. Some people want to be accepted with their anger, cruelty etc.. I am not one. I want to be loved with my free will and self-expression, but I do not want to be with someone who would accept cruelty, neglect, dishonesty, etc. So I appreciate that my soulmate has a backbone and would never tolerate that from anyone, even me. I wouldn't either. I am confident that darker aspects of our personalities can be nurtured and forgiven as part of this cohesive whole, but also, that we both love each other so much that if we find ourselves being cruel, selfish, neglectful, lazy, competitive.... we will weed out those issues ourselves. And if we don't, the other will speak up and be forgiving. Our communication is excellent. 

So, "take me as I am," has a special meaning to me. I hate the "If you can't handle me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best" bullshit. At my worst, I have devoured someone's soul and spit it back out to rot, leaving them devastated for ten years. At my worst, I have driven someone to such shame over his actions that he never showed his face in that town again. Granted, those people deserved it. But it was still my worst because I gave them the time of the day in the first place. But I have also been envious and competitive of someone who deserved better, when I was at my worst. So, my beautiful soulmate would never deserve to endure me at my worst, like that. He deserves _only_ the best. He has seen me vulnerable, crying , sad, honest.. and there is nothing BAD about being vulnerable, so that is not in a 'at my worst' category. But he will never see me being evil, cold, selfish and cruel, because I have paid close attention to myself for a long time, and I know what it takes to strive to be the person he deserves. That person is closer to my true self; my real heart and spirit, not tangled up by envy, lust and alienation. He brings out my honest, naked _heart_.

But my baseline personality will never be the one that is drilled into women in our culture. It is perhaps closer to what people would want out of a man. If I weren't sick, I'd be touring the world doing music, directing, working constantly in a creative field, etc, like I was before I was 16, by choice. If I weren't sick, and I were rich, I might be willing to have kids if my soulmate were to enjoy being the one staying home with them, which of course would be up to him, and both of us to decide. But I knew all my life, that I would never be a typical mother, strapped to the kitchen and the bedroom, never to see the light of day. 

My soulmate loves me the way I am, and now that I know I can be loved this way, efforts to shame me on this count, only make me feel sorry for people. I feel sad that some people believe there is only one way to be, one way to love. That if I don't fit this model, I can't be loved. This idea has hurt me all my life, but I realize now, it is more hurtful to those who fall prey to it. Those who tried to make me feel bad for not fitting that role, are the ones who suffer because they stuffed themselves into that role and felt it was the only way they could be loved. That is the only reason they projected it on me. So, I am beginning to forgive those men and women who have rejected my true nature. I am beginning to forgive the men who begged to marry me only with the intent of turning me into a wife that I could never want to be. I am forgiving the relatives who tell my mother to tame me. And, I am realizing more and more, how amazing my mother is, for telling them that I am my own person, and that she would never want to change my beautiful nature. And my father, for seeing aspects of himself in me, and using those similarities to offer me wisdom about my dreams, instead of trying to mold me into someone who would fulfill his own dreams. And to both of them, for telling me they don't care if I have kids or not, and they don't care what gender or race I want to date, all they care about is the character of that person, and that I am happy with them. I am truly blessed.


----------



## mimesis

@_Animal_

Still, believe it or not, but sx4s can be mothers too (and visit PerC) and be someone significant in that way.


----------



## Animal

mimesis said:


> @_Animal_
> 
> Still, believe it or not, but sx4s can be mothers too (and visit PerC) and be someone significant in that way.


I know. I wasn't talking about being a 4, or being an individual. I was talking about how my individuality is expressed. Two people of the exact same tritype could have a completely different idea of what it means to be alive and what it means to be a slave. Someone else might feel like a slave if publishers were putting their two (or two billion) cents into their writing process for instance.

I know a 4 who is an incredible, jaw-dropping artist, whose big dream in life is to have kids, and she's young and hasn't dated yet, but she writes about big families and draws pictures of them, to pass the time until she can have her own. There is nothing about it that isn't 4- it's HER dream, HER expression, to the point where even her characters do it. In my case, all my fictional characters have been musicians, and since I lost my voice, music has been even more central in their lives. My characters tend to have no family at all or broken families so that they can grow up completely on their own and develop a solid, strong foundation without anyone else's input. Of course, I myself have a strong family and I love them so much, but it never makes it into my novels because my dream is to live without anyone holding me down, and eventually find love. Even the relationships in my book which are 'soul mates' or close, are usually rocky and lead to more individualistic development of both parties. I'm happy my relationship is smoother, and I won't sabotage it just for the sake of creativity or something, but it's arguable that i have done so in the past. 


* *





But also keep in mind I have a very serious chronic illness, and for me, it's hard enough to sleep at night and get up in the morning. I take more than 50 medications a day (though many are vitamins) and I have to constantly go to the doctor. I can suddenly become sick at any time. For me, having kids would be certain death to my creative process, because not only would I have absolutely no time to do it, but also, I'd be sick all the time from attending to their needs. It simply isn't viable for me to have any voice of my own at all and also have kids, in my condition. And that is an understatement. For me, simply SURVIVING with kids would be a feat, considering that even a part time job makes me very sick pretty fast. Sick can mean high fevers, losing hair, unable to sleep, complete brain fog, joint and muscle pain to the point of being immobile, nausea, heart issues... people die from Lyme, which obviously hasn't happened to me yet, but at least once, I barely made it. 

But granted, I never wanted kids even before I got sick, because at that time I was preparing to tour the world or go wherever I had to go to do music, to pursue my career. And if I werent' tied to medications and pills, and too sick to pursue a career that requires a lot of physical presence, I would never be home because I'd be out doing music. Even if I got cured now but didn't get my voice back, I'd be producing and doing other things, trying to get my book made to a movie and wanting to learn to direct, etc. And when I wouldn't be doing that, I'd be writing for up to 15 hours a day (I already do, if I can be awake and not in a total brain fog for that long).




An absolute necessity in a relationship is having someone who can sit in the room with me on a separate laptop and completely ignore me for several hours. I can't be in a relationship with anyone who needs to have my attention the whole time he's there. I need someone else independent. I can spend every minute of every day with @_Sun Daeva_ because we can both go into our own worlds, and then the day can be shared with him and my creative work. I have never encountered a single other person on the planet, who I can write with, while he's in the room. It is an absolute necessity for me that someone can fit this need, or else I'd rather be alone. Because all my life, the minute I let anyone in too close, it's like I'm constantly torn between the driving need to get my creative work done and the need to please someone else, and I grow to resent them, fast. This is ME, I am not speaking for all 4s. Some 4s love being around people, taking care of them. Actually, I will say, I love taking care of him, cooking for him, cleaning up the house so he can move in, etc... so it's not that I'm absent of nurturing instinct... but why I love doing this, is because he takes care of me too, and his idiosynchracies fit mine, which makes me WANT to be around him all the time. Both of us would go nuts with someone bothering us 24/7.. we both need our own head space. It's so beautiful and it makes us just WORK, and everything falls into place. When I start feeling torn by someone's need for attention, I grow to resent things that I feel like I "have to do" and which aren't "me," but when someone understands me as he does, then I start to think of things I could do to make him happy. 

When I say I was born with a hunger to be my own person - it does not mean that someone else can't be individual and expressive with kids. But when you have kids, you are no longer your own person. Your life revolves around them. I am not built that way. I am achingly, to the point of painfully and defectively, autonomous. So you see - it's not that 4s cant have kids, it's that I don't want kids and being a 4 makes it so innate that it's part of my internal hall of mirrors, my self-expression, my self-image, my avenue to be alive instead of just surviving, etc. Because of my innate and powerful drive for absolute autonomy, I thought I was unlovable and would be alone forever. I am truly lucky there's someone else like me on this rock.


----------



## mimesis

@Animal

I understand that. I never particularly desired to have kids either, for different reasons, and it hasn't happened to me since I came to the determination to welcome it, and give my everything, if it did. 

I do think you look at it from just one side of it, when there is obviously more to it than that, and it's not depicted in a very glorious way either, where I can only have admiration and deep respect and don't look at it in terms of slavery but devotion. In that respect I myself may perhaps have been a little too much devoted to myself first and foremost, regardless of soulmates, twin flames, etc.


----------



## Bunny

Rinnie said:


> @Wytch You're so cute. I just wanted to say that, and I think you're awesome and relatable xD.


Pshaw, you flatter me but thank you very much :kitteh:


----------



## Animal

mimesis said:


> @_Animal_
> 
> I understand that. I never particularly desired to have kids either, for different reasons, and it hasn't happened to me since I came to the determination to welcome it, and give my everything, if it did.
> 
> I do think you look at it from just one side of it, when there is obviously more to it than that, and it's not depicted in a very glorious way either, where I can only have admiration and deep respect and don't look at it in terms of slavery but devotion. In that respect I myself may perhaps have been a little too much devoted to myself first and foremost, regardless of soulmates, twin flames, etc.


I wrote a post about this a while ago - I'll post it here. The problem with this stance is that I'm already committed and devoted to my art. And honestly, I feel sorry for people who look at me and see a person who is afraid of commitment. It's the opposite. I'm ALREADY committed, and have been my whole life. It's sad that people can only see commitment, especially in a woman, the way that society defines it. They simply can't see past it. All they can think to do is tell me workarounds, and that someone else had kids and also wrote books, and so forth. They simply cannot see my commitment to art, for what it is.

I'll quote the old post here.
----


_
"A woman is a beast. She is as lovely as she is repulsive. She is one part demon and one part goddess…one part slave, one part muse…one part child & one part mother…these contradictions are what make a woman so intoxicating" - ANDREA MARY MARSHALL
_


Animal said:


> I've seen this quote before actually. While there is truth in it, I am not just any woman, and that is because of my choices. I choose to be a beast, a demon, a goddess, and a muse. I reject being a slave or a mother. While I am "mother" to my novels and music, I rejected the family model for my future when I was a little girl. I saw that my mother was an artist and my father was a rockstar.. but now, now that they had kids, all they could ever be was doctors and parents. They didn't have time to actualize their own visions and explore their own passions because they chose instead to provide a solid foundation for me to pursue mine.
> 
> Some people say they're "stuck" in that model and thats "just the way it is." Their family wants them to have kids, they will be "single forever" if they aren't conforming to certain standards for their man, etc. It's fair to point out, on behalf of their argument, that I grew up with relative financial stability, that my parents paid for my music lessons as long as I practiced and worked hard, that I was supported in being me, and that nobody in my immediate family has put pressure on me to marry or procreate - and when other relatives try, my parents shoo them away and tell them that I will be myself. Of course, they don't need to; I can do this alone, but sometimes people will say "Tell her to look for a husband, she's beautiful!" and my mother's answer will be "I tell her to do exactly what fulfills her."
> 
> As for relationships, I have been mostly single. I've had lots of guys interested in me, I've had multiple marriage proposals - some from beautiful and accomplished men - etc. I've had plenty of chances and even pressure to lay down my dreams and rewrite my future with someone else. Thus far, I have turned them down. In each situation that was presented to me, I felt for whatever reason that a long-term commitment to this person would force me to sacrifice a crucial part of who I am. I need tons of alone time in order to be "mother" to my music and writing. I need someone who loves me with my dreams, with my passions, with my failures. I can be extremely nurturing, protective and supportive in a relationship, and I am completely turned on by the idea of my heart being enslaved by someone. I dream of being dominated mentally, emotionally and physically. But the typical "barefoot in the kitchen" slavery is not me, and will never be me. My friends have, one by one, ended up in that position either unwittingly or by choice, and I look ten years younger than they do, and I'm only 34 so far. Not that looks matter, per se, but it is a sign that I'm still alive. In my 20s everyone was so happy, they were getting married, and I was watching people get hitched and it just wasn't happening to me.. but somehow, as envious as I can be of some things, I was never jealous of that. I'm jealous when I see rockstars actualizing their visions on music videos with big budgets - this is what I was meant to do, and that future was ruthlessly stolen from me. I'm not jealous of friends who marry typical guys and find typical jobs and have typical lives. Of course I have worked plenty of typical or very annoying jobs, and I will continue to do that until I make a living with my art - but I don't want to spend a second longer than I have to, living my life as a slave to social structures or money. I am an animal, human and symbol at once and I will never settle for less.
> 
> It does come at a sacrifice though. I am someone who loves with tremendous depth and vigor, and I have had to make choices that were extremely difficult in order to sustain my dreams. The love of my life asked me to marry him ten years ago, but I would have had to leave my life behind and he had a kid in an area very remote from where my band and other resources are. I got back in touch with him and could do the same now, go and be with him - but I don't. I've had other amazing opportunities, strong connections with people who I dated or adored but I could not stay with them because they wanted to have kids eventually. It is a sacrifice, make no mistake - its not fun and games. I am alone, and I have all this passion and sensuality to give and no one to give it to. Sometimes I just burn and burn for someone, for months, or years, and see him in my dreams and stories but never in the flesh. But I don't complain about being single because I know it's my choice. It doesn't mean that I don't cry, that I don't hurt, that I don't wish with every bone in my body sometimes that I could just give it all up and be with the person I'm yearning for. But I never do.
> 
> People often perceive this as "commitment-phobia" - and that is absolutely inaccurate. I am not afraid of commitment. I am_ already committed_ to my music, art and writing and I have been committed to it unyieldingly_ since I was a little girl_. On that commitment I have never wavered, and I even sang lead on my album after losing my voice and speaking in a whisper. That is the meaning of commitment, and I feel sorry for those who interpret me as a commitment-phobe. They don't know the meaning of a true dream. To them, the only commitment is 'marriage' 'kids' and 'stable job.' They can't even fathom being committed to a _dream_ and to _your true self_.
> 
> I have that same passion and immersion in any 'relationship.' I'm close with my family. I am committed to my friends - my closest friends to this day, I've known since we were 5, 11, 15, and 23, and when someone has been close to me for a while and we have hit rough spots I've gone to tremendous lengths to fix it. I am the same when I'm in a relationship - I make sacrifices, I tune into their every emotion, I adore them and we become part of each other. I can even lose myself and mirror the other person so strongly when I'm in love.. but it's a journey that eventually causes the phoenix to burst so I can rise from the ashes and create art about it. Love and passion are inspiration but they have not provided the stability and longevity that I desire deep down, because I am waiting to find someone like me, who knows who he is and refuses to sacrifice who he is, but his dreams line up neatly enough with mine, that the sacrifices we would have to make would not involve giving up our true passions. That means one of us has to make money... so it's not as simple as it sounds. If there is a man in the world who is as_ committed _to his dreams as I am, and who would want to fight that battle at my side, I would do anything for him. But I believe in my heart of hearts that I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than give up on my vision, and I know this because I am hollow any time I choose to do otherwise for a short period of time.
> 
> So, I guess what I'm saying is, while I agree with the quote in terms of most people, I am immune to the pressure of such expectations, and I carve my own path even in the face of tremendous adversity, so it might not apply to me in the same way it does to others. I insist on having integrity in my sense of self: being who I am, nothing more, and nothing less. And I am willing to make sacrifices for others without losing who I am, but _who I am_ is defined on my terms.


----------



## mimesis

@Animal

Also with regard to illness, a friend of mine who died from cancer, wasn't stopped from getting married (after 17 years) as well as trying to get kids (IVF) even if he might no longer live to see them. She still wished to have his child, and raise it alone or with a stepfather, which was obviously also a consideration for him.

Not saying you "should". Just that it's not something that neccesarily follows.


----------



## mimesis

Animal said:


> I wrote a post about this a while ago - I'll post it here. The problem with this stance is that I'm already committed and devoted to my art. And honestly, I feel sorry for people who look at me and see a person who is afraid of commitment. It's the opposite. I'm ALREADY committed, and have been my whole life. It's sad that people can only see commitment, especially in a woman, the way that society defines it. They simply can't see past it. All they can think to do is tell me workarounds, and that someone else had kids and also wrote books, and so forth. They simply cannot see my commitment to art, for what it is.
> 
> I'll quote the old post here.
> ----
> 
> 
> _
> "A woman is a beast. She is as lovely as she is repulsive. She is one part demon and one part goddess…one part slave, one part muse…one part child & one part mother…these contradictions are what make a woman so intoxicating" - ANDREA MARY MARSHALL
> _


Did I say so?


----------



## Animal

mimesis said:


> @_Animal_
> 
> Also with regard to illness, a friend of mine who died from cancer, wasn't stopped from getting married (after 17 years) as well as trying to get kids (IVF) even if he might no longer live to see them. She still wished to have his child, and raise it alone or with a stepfather, which was obviously also a consideration for him.


Yeah, people tell me all kinds of workarounds: JK Rowling wrote books while being a single mom and a waitress, this sick person did this, that sick person did that, this 4 did it and still created art, etc. _I don't fucking want kids_. I am not looking for a workaround. ;P I sang lead on my album after an illness took my voice away and left me speaking in a whisper. _I sang lead through my fucking whisper._ I will do anything I put my mind to, anything I truly want. _Nothing_ can stop me. _*I don't want kids.*_


----------



## Animal

mimesis said:


> Did I say so?


No, but this implication is there, when you say: it's an act of devotion in itself, other 4s do it, this sick person did it. It's like the assumption is there that I want kids deep down but I just think it's too hard or I fail to see the beauty in devotion. (Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just how I feel reading it.) I don't want it, so I don't need to be told stories about workarounds and how beautiful it is. People tell me this every time I tell them I don't want kids. They tell me, well I understand your reasons, but, this person did it anyway, and that one did it anyway, and it was beautiful. What's wrong with I DON'T WANT THAT... I am already committed to something else, and while I can see the beauty and individuality that can be expressed in someone else's devotion to their kids, I'm already devoted to soemthing else and I prefer to stay focused. What's wrong with that, really? Why does everyone then proceed to tell me about workarounds and how beautiful it is? 

I'm just saying.. I am 35 and I've heard this whole speech any time I've ever brought it up throughout my entire life including in elem school when everyone else played with baby-dolls and I played with kitten-dolls. I really don't want kids. I just don't... I know it's beautiful. I visited my friend since 2nd grade yesterday, and I held her daughter and I took pictures and she was absolutely lovely, though she had a cold, and with my illness, if I catch a cold it will last several months and can end up in me having to change lots of meds, lose lots of hair & time, etc... so now I'm OD'ing on vitamin C, another problem wtih a very sick person being around kids. Anyway, she was charming and lovely, but I still don't want kids. My friend has wanted them all her life and she is a radiologist, so obviously it's not interrupting her dreams, hard work and self-expression. But she and I were talking about this, and she was joking about how I have NEVER wanted kids all my life and I haven't changed, and she always has, and she hasn't changed. It's really that simple.. :,(

And, I know you're just being kind and pointing something out, but understand I have been PRESSURED in this manner from men all my life, and also from other friends, and so it's a bit of a sore spot, like a "NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME!!" type deal. When I tell a man who is interested in me that I don't want kids, and he dates me anyway, then he takes me home and nods along while his parents pressure me to have kids, and this happens over and over and over, and all my girl friends say that I could have kids if only I would try XYZ... I'm sorry, I adore you @_mimesis_ and I know your beautiful heart is in the right place, so it's nothing personal, but hearing this every time I bring up kids throughout my entire life (and often in situations where it actually affects my relationships and my life), I just start to go bonkers.


----------



## Animal

Also @mimesis

I'm sorry if I sound mean - it's not my intention. You're one of my favorite people on this forum. You write really in depth posts about 4s and I really love it , because that forum needs it. Your posts are often brilliant and presenting angles nobody else can touch. On a more personal note, you have always gone out of your way to understand where I'm coming from, to hear my point of view, and even to help others to understand me.

That is why I'm whining. I expect most people to completely not get me. You always have, so I make more of an effort to make a point, and on this point, it's hard to make it without being impassioned. (It would take me a lot more time to edit my passion and rage out of these posts, although it is general and I don't mean to direct it at you personally. So I wouldn't even write them if I didn't feel like you're one of the few who could actually understand where I'm coming from.)

So yeah, no personal attack intended, but those are my raw feelings on the matter. It becomes downright frustrating and hurtful that as a woman, or maybe a human, there is this built in expectation that I ought to want a certain thing, and my not wanting it is based in fear or giving up or failing to think of options, etc. It makes me feel even more isolated and alienated than I already do. It actually causes me to isolate myself for long periods of time and contemplate tattooing a wedding ring with an art symbol to show the world that I'm already taken. Of course now that I have someone who gets me, this has changed. But it has been the thing that caused a lot of misunderstandings, breakups, shaming, misunderstanding, assumptions and hatred and alienation from others. They see it as a weakness, giving in to the illness etc. Even though I'm just explaining realistically that it would be a much bigger sacrifice for me than for a healthy person. But no sacrifice is too great, for something I actually WANT. That's what most people miss about me. And it's not out of fear, it's out of devotion, to something else. If you think about it, my art will touch and reach more children than just mine, if I do it well enough. I mean, just saying.. 

Anyway.. I don't mean to be harsh or difficult. You're great, that's why I bother to argue. Most people, I can accept that they don't understand me. Its harder in your case.


----------



## mimesis

Animal said:


> Yeah, people tell me all kinds of workarounds: JK Rowling wrote books while being a single mom and a waitress, this sick person did this, that sick person did that, this 4 did it and still created art, etc. _I don't fucking want kids_. I am not looking for a workaround. ;P I sang lead on my album after an illness took my voice away and left me speaking in a whisper. _I sang lead through my fucking whisper._ I will do anything I put my mind to, anything I truly want. _Nothing_ can stop me. _*I don't want kids.*_


I didn't say you have to. And as a woman, you decide. 

I did have a fierce discussion with my ex once, where I told her that if it would happen, unintentionally I would welcome it and she said "forget it, it's my body. Case closed". Of course it would be her decision, but apparently my opinion was irrelevant.


----------



## Animal

mimesis said:


> I didn't say you have to. And as a woman, you decide.
> 
> I did have a fierce discussion with my ex once, where I told her that if it would happen, unintentionally I would welcome it and she said "forget it, it's my body. Case closed". Of course it would be her decision, but apparently my opinion was irrelevant.


Yeah.. I hate that too. It has to be up to both parties. I can't stand when women completely stomp on men like that. I always share this decision in depth before even the first kiss, lol. I don't want to step on anyone, so I believe in full disclosure - about my illness, my medical expenses, my inability to work full time, that I can't be too far away from my parents at the moment , that I can't travel much, etc. I also disclose that even if I were healthy suddenly, I am still not someone who WANTS kids, though it might be easier to consider then, but I still might not ever want them. I go out of my way to make this clear, and then men pursue me and attempt to shame me into changing my mind, or point out workarounds or allow their mothers to pressure me or whatever. Of course, that just results in me shutting off and leaving.


----------



## mimesis

Animal said:


> Also @mimesis
> 
> I'm sorry if I sound mean - it's not my intention. You're one of my favorite people on this forum. You write really in depth posts about 4s and I really love it , because that forum needs it. Your posts are often brilliant and presenting angles nobody else can touch. On a more personal note, you have always gone out of your way to understand where I'm coming from, to hear my point of view, and even to help others to understand me.
> 
> That is why I'm whining. I expect most people to completely not get me. You always have, so I make more of an effort to make a point, and on this point, it's hard to make it without being impassioned. (It would take me a lot more time to edit my passion and rage out of these posts, although it is general and I don't mean to direct it at you personally. So I wouldn't even write them if I didn't feel like you're one of the few who could actually understand where I'm coming from.)
> 
> So yeah, no personal attack intended, but those are my raw feelings on the matter. It becomes downright frustrating and hurtful that as a woman, or maybe a human, there is this built in expectation that I ought to want a certain thing, and my not wanting it is based in fear or giving up or failing to think of options, etc. It makes me feel even more isolated and alienated than I already do. It actually causes me to isolate myself for long periods of time and contemplate tattooing a wedding ring with an art symbol to show the world that I'm already taken. Of course now that I have someone who gets me, this has changed. But it has been the thing that caused a lot of misunderstandings, breakups, shaming, misunderstanding, assumptions and hatred and alienation from others. They see it as a weakness, giving in to the illness etc. Even though I'm just explaining realistically that it would be a much bigger sacrifice for me than for a healthy person. But no sacrifice is too great, for something I actually WANT. That's what most people miss about me. And it's not out of fear, it's out of devotion, to something else. If you think about it, my art will touch and reach more children than just mine, if I do it well enough. I mean, just saying..
> 
> Anyway.. I don't mean to be harsh or difficult. You're great, that's why I bother to argue. Most people, I can accept that they don't understand me. Its harder in your case.


I know, and I haven't forgotten this have been issues in the past, and part of why you felt unfit for love, because of these expectations of you as a woman. I don't agree with those expectations (what is normative) and I was also more hopeful of you finding someone that would match your desires and needs. The chance (mathematically) may have been smaller, on the other hand, you just need one after all.


----------



## Animal

mimesis said:


> I know, and I haven't forgotten this have been issues in the past, and part of why you felt unfit for love, because of these expectations of you as a woman. I don't agree with those and I was also more hopeful of you finding someone that would match your desires and needs. The chance (mathematically) may have been smaller, on the other hand, you just need one after all.


You are a great person. I knew you get me 

Sorry. It's a sore spot. I am also losing my shit because I have to be away from @Sun Daeva for another long time. I know other people are better at holding it together.. I won't boast of being a logical, emotionally stable person, lol.  But thanks for being awesome. You didnt pressure me. I guess I'm just reacting to the world in a setting where I do feel I am being seen and heard. With them, I just shut off.


----------



## Golden Rose

Animal said:


> I am also losing my shit because I have to be away from @Sun Daeva for another long time. I know other people are better at holding it together..


...until they can't. PP

This was probably more suitable for the 5 forums but it's such a quiet and lovely place that I don't want to litter it just yet. I tend to need to disconnect and rationalize what I'm feeling or else I'm just going through circles. No matter how much of an INTJish impression a head core might give, I'm extremely fixated on understanding what I'm feeling and figuring out what other people I care about/I'm observing are feeling. 
Mostly my own though, it's already complicated as it is and illness doesn't help.

I'm feeling good, I know that actual happiness is at arm's reach. I know myself and our reality. 
But I've never met anyone more self deprecating, obsessive and fearing being inadequate than I am. 

Objectively.


----------



## cinnabun

Omg. I'm cringing so hard. This dude who I met when I was 18 is all of a sudden trying to hit me up on facebook. Me and my best friend are pissing ourselves. We met him at a night out and he had a girlfriend at the time, but he was clearly into my bestie and it was so awkward, I had to cock-block his horny ass. Then a few months ago he added me on facebook, now he's all like "Hi! You like anime? )) I got netflix hehe" like wtf dude? Why are you trying to netflix and chill me? Why is he all of a sudden making a move like, years later? And why on me? It was my best friend he was into. I'm so confused. Me and my bestie are discussing what went down that night and laughing at how bizarre and random it was (a lot of weird and crazy shit happened). Jesus christ, he is the legit definition of a "fuckboi".

Ah, memories :').


----------



## Daeva

People say it's too fast. People say they don't believe in love on first sight. People think you ought to be cautious. People.. are people.
Fuck people.


_We live our lives how we damn well please. No one gets to interfere with that. One can try, and one will fail. And I'll make damn sure it hurts._


The most important thing in my life is to be me. To express myself in all the colors that shine through me. Yet people are blind.
Except for @Animal ...


People are so stuck in their own darkness, that looking up to try and see and understand the darkness of another is impossible, because they can't handle the light that the other has.
Never mistake your own blindness for another person's light.

My *soulmate *sees me. She's the only one who sees me. And I see her. She's mine, I'm hers.


----------



## FakeLefty

Wildest Rose said:


> ...until they can't. PP
> 
> This was probably more suitable for the 5 forums but it's such a quiet and lovely place that I don't want to litter it just yet. I tend to need to disconnect and rationalize what I'm feeling or else I'm just going through circles. No matter how much of an INTJish impression a head core might give, I'm extremely fixated on understanding what I'm feeling and figuring out what other people I care about/I'm observing are feeling.
> Mostly my own though, it's already complicated as it is and illness doesn't help.
> 
> I'm feeling good, I know that actual happiness is at arm's reach. I know myself and our reality.
> But I've never met anyone more self deprecating, obsessive and fearing being inadequate than I am.
> 
> Objectively.


TIL that the 5 forums is essentially a library.


----------



## FakeLefty

Rinnie said:


> Omg. I'm cringing so hard. This dude who I met when I was 18 is all of a sudden trying to hit me up on facebook. Me and my best friend are pissing ourselves. We met him at a night out and he had a girlfriend at the time, but he was clearly into my bestie and it was so awkward, I had to cock-block his horny ass. Then a few months ago he added me on facebook, now he's all like "Hi! You like anime? )) I got netflix hehe" like wtf dude? Why are you trying to netflix and chill me? Why is he all of a sudden making a move like, years later? And why on me? It was my best friend he was into. I'm so confused. Me and my bestie are discussing what went down that night and laughing at how bizarre and random it was (a lot of weird and crazy shit happened). Jesus christ, he is the legit definition of a "fuckboi".
> 
> Ah, memories :').


Lol I misread what you said at first. I thought some 18 year old was hitting on you. I thought that either that was a ballsy 18 year old or a desperate one (going after someone who's out of their league). xD


----------



## cinnabun

FakeLefty said:


> Lol I misread what you said at first. I thought some 18 year old was hitting on you. I thought that either that was a ballsy 18 year old or a desperate one (going after someone who's out of their league). xD


Ohhh, stop it you. You'll give me a big head:blushed:.


----------



## Dalton

Rinnie said:


> Ohhh, stop it you. You'll give me a big head:blushed:.


I'd like somebody to give me big head. :blushed:


----------



## Rala

infinity paradox said:


> @Rala
> 
> 
> 
> It's not selfish and self-centered to heal yourself and grow into the best person you can be... This is the only way to develop a true bond with someone anyway, after you are both full and complete on your own. In the meantime, make progress and enjoy yourself, hone your skills. I relate a lot to the idea of two people being hungry and then realizing they have nothing to offer, because there is a more internal emptiness in each, and it can never lead to a healthy, lasting relationship in my opinion. I know we were focusing more on a romantic implication but the same can be true for platonic relationships as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I am so glad you realize that you said real love brings you freedom. I agree.
> 
> I also agree about embracing fear. That is a big thing theme for me, as well. I'd like to feel like you don't only get what's thrown at you, but that you can sort of decide that on a micro level, if that makes sense. Choices within limits.
> 
> Also, I wanted to tell you I love the quote in your signature. 486 hmm. And I'm considering whether I'm 638 or 648.


Well, yeah you kind of get to decide too, in a way. By choosing your attitude towards life and your main focus and you know.. little things like these. I think indeed you can be in control of your life at some point, but not when you're basically in a coma...

638 or 648, you sound awesome anyway.


----------



## cinnabun

Crashing at @DAPHNE LXIV's pad. It's awesome . We're going out tonight to get drunk, I'm excited.

Wish @Ace Face could be here with us too <3.


----------



## Rala

Rinnie said:


> Crashing at @DAPHNE LXIV's pad. It's awesome . We're going out tonight to get drunk, I'm excited.
> 
> Wish @Ace Face could be here with us too <3.


How come everyone on this site is meeting up in real life? I AM JEALOUS.

Cool, have fun :tongue:


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> How come everyone on this site is meeting up in real life? I AM JEALOUS.


Come to meeee


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Come to meeee


One day. Can I really? <3


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> One day. Can I really? <3


Yes please


----------



## Bunny

I feel so lost right now and I have no idea what to do.
There's nothing for me to do but wait.
I'm trying my best not to think negatively but this is weighing on me _heavily._
My mind is so fucked up right now.
I don't want to talk to anyone but him but he's not talking.
I'm moving further and further into my little cave and the longer I wait the more closer I get to cutting everything off again.
I don't want to do this.
Maybe it's better this way.
I shouldn't start mourning before I even know what's happening but I'm so used to it.
I have to prepare myself, just in case.


----------



## Gorgon

The blanket of silence is a welcoming respite. It always wasn't like this in the past. In order to be still in silence, you have to be at peace with yourself, with your thoughts. Silence is richly paradoxical; a void filled with noise, the noise being our thoughts. A loud and very present nothingness. I think the reason why a lot of people need external noise is so that they don't have to deal with their own internal noise. For example, it's advised that depressed people socialize and be active. When they're alone they ruminate, eventually imploding under the weight of their own thoughts. When alone in that state, you construct a rich, complex, yet bleack internal model. When you're alone, there's no one to challenge that model. In withdrawing, the depressive tries to fortify the barriers that protects him from the flood. In the end, it's counterproductive in that the deluge eventually swallows him whole while trying to fortify the barriers.

That's not say that being alone is bad. Au contraire, everyone needs to be alone with themselves at some point in their lives. It's one way to really explore who you are. It's good to get away from the influence of others, to get in touch with who you really are. You need to be confronted with your *real* thoughts and emotions. This is momumental to the path towards self-actualization.


----------



## Rala

Thanatesque said:


> The blanket of silence is a welcoming respite. It always wasn't like this in the past. In order to be still in silence, you have to be at peace with yourself, with your thoughts. Silence is richly paradoxical; a void filled with noise, the noise being our thoughts. A loud and very present nothingness. I think the reason why a lot of people need external noise is so that they don't have to deal with their own internal noise. For example, it's advised that depressed people socialize and be active. When they're alone they ruminate, eventually imploding under the weight of their own thoughts. When alone in that state, you construct a rich, complex, yet bleack internal model. When you're alone, there's no one to challenge that model. In withdrawing, the depressive tries to fortify the barriers that protects him from the flood. In the end, it's counterproductive in that the deluge eventually swallows him whole while trying to fortify the barriers.
> 
> That's not say that being alone is bad. Au contraire, everyone needs to be alone with themselves at some point in their lives. It's one way to really explore who you are. It's good to get away from the influence of others, to get in touch with who you really are. You need to be confronted with your *real* thoughts and emotions. This is momumental to the path towards self-actualization.


I love this! (I can't give it a thanks cause I'm on my phone).

I think the way to tell if you're at peace with yourself is by noticing how it feels when you sit with yourself in silence. I will just speak for myself, though. I used to be teriffied of being alone without anything to distract myself with. I lived alone for almost 6 months last year and I used to let the TV on all the time, talk on the phone non stop, eat all the time to numb myself because being left with myself felt like emptiness. Had a lot to confront, a lot of childhood issues and once I did that and came to peace with myself, being alone now feels like stillness. So yeah, running from oneself is counterproductive.


----------



## 6007

My infj needs a slap across the mouth.


----------



## Ace Face

Rinnie said:


> Crashing at @_DAPHNE LXIV_'s pad. It's awesome . We're going out tonight to get drunk, I'm excited.
> 
> Wish @_Ace Face_ could be here with us too <3.


Awe :3 I am with you in spirit! I hope you two are having a blast together <3


----------



## Rala

ripley said:


> My infj needs a slap across the mouth.


Please, be gentle with your INFJ. They are my favorite :blushed:


----------



## AddictiveMuse

I hate all the melodrama, the chaos and the arguments but am so inexplicably drawn to it. Go fucking figure.


----------



## 6007

Rala said:


> Please, be gentle with your INFJ. They are my favorite :blushed:


Ive been gentle. He's been a melodramatic narcissistic asshole. 
The time for gentle is past. He doesn't get to hurt me and then play the victim. 
You're welcome to him if you like. I can pm his number.


----------



## 6007

I'm not sure why it is that I hate telling people the ways they negatively impact my emotions but I do. 
There's just a huge wall of nope there. 
I don't like anyone having the power to make me feel sad or insecure (which doesn't happen often thank god) or angry and when people make me feel these things enough times I start minimizing contact until I cut them off. 
You can't intake even a little poison and be ok. 
I have tried over my life to let people know where my boundaries lie, but it doesn't work out anyway. 
Is it a case of anyone who hurts you is automatically incompatible? Or that I don't handle negative emotions well? Or that I'm a fucking misanthropic bitch? 

All three and more I reckon. 

Im so fucking annoyed. My neck is all stiff with rage. Shoulder muscles are twitching. 

Ive cut so many people from my life recently and now I'm trying to decide if the love of my life is next.
He finally enraged me enough to cast doubt on everything.

i gotta wonder, was I feeling doubt, and did I create this situation so I could experience my doubt in real time? It started with me confiding in him that he helped me to feel insecure and devolved to a point where we are basically broken up. It seems no matter what he said, it was the exact wrong thing. However, it is true that he said a lot of shitty stuff.
I will take a little bit of time and a little bit of distance to get my head together.


----------



## Rala

ripley said:


> Rala said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please, be gentle with your INFJ. They are my favorite
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ive been gentle. He's been a melodramatic narcissistic asshole.
> The time for gentle is past. He doesn't get to hurt me and then play the victim.
> You're welcome to him if you like. I can pm his number.
Click to expand...

Then kick his ass.

Rectification: Healthy INFJs are my favorite.


----------



## Rala

I am seriously starting to think that the worst people one can ever come across are spiritual people. You will find all sorts of people in spiritual communities/groups; there are reasonable people who are believers, but they still have access to their brain, you know, they THINK. And there are these folks that annoy the fuck out of me. They use all these spiritual concepts and what not in order to feed their illusions and they use other people just as delusional and naive as them to validate them. They are basically thanking and encouraging each other to feed them lies and reassure them. This wouldn't piss me off so much if they wouldn't, at the same time, snap at everyone that disagrees with them. "OH! I am sorry you don't love yourself enough and that is why you are so judgemental". You pitiful fucker, I am sorry me being a bit skeptical means I don't love myself. Quite on the contrary, I love myself enough not to let my brain rot by slipping in a little bubble, away from reality where you don't need it anymore. Last time I checked, it was okay to question things. I pity these people. And WTF I am being door slammed by this kind of folks now too. Just... how low can one get. Ffs I am done trying.


----------



## NomadLeviathan

Will someone trade me for Sp/So?

This fire runs wild, no safe place to burn


----------



## Rala

OfTheEarth said:


> Will someone trade me for Sp/So?
> 
> This fire runs wild, no safe place to burn


Keep that rare sx treasure safe and hidden, you


----------



## 6007

I am going to step on his throat.


----------



## NomadLeviathan

Rala said:


> Keep that rare sx treasure safe and hidden, you


Give me a cabin in the snows far removed from forest flames. I'll take my warmth from slow-stoked coals. Tired of revelries left with ash and scorched earth.


----------



## Ace Face

I had a KICK ASS day at work yesterday! It seriously couldn't have gone any better. I ran that shit like a fucking champ. Not bad for a n00b ^.^


----------



## Animal

I have a violent, hateful, even volcanic reaction toward people who not only rely solely on others for their happiness, but also, who express a pretense of love and caring, but completely disregard their loved ones' actual needs the moment it conflicts with their own. When people start pushing me to sacrifice my dreams on the basis that they "need" me - I feel like I could rip their head off and wipe my floor with their hair. Who the fuck do they think they are, to claim to love me and care about me - if they are so eager to squander the pursuits that nourish my soul - for the simple reason that _they need me for themselves_? Why would they be so weak and pitiful to allow their happiness become my responsibility, and how can they be cruel and selfish enough to call that LOVE?

But then, I think: why does this bother me so much? I don't tolerate any type of cruelty, but in general, I expect people to be selfish, and to try to get what they need. Selflessness is rare and I would not necessarily condone being selfless in most situations. To me, it's crucial to express myself, to be true to myself, to chase my own desires and dreams. I know I will only get out of life what I put in. So if I want something, I have to go and grab it. In most situations, I respect people for doing this. But when it comes to the specific act of stifling someone else's dreams, because "I need you" or "I miss you" - this pisses me off. 

I have always been giving and caring to the people I love. I go out of my way to confront problems, resolve conflicts, be there when they're down. But in return, I expect to be respected. I don't need other people to take care of me as much as I need them to give me a lot of space and not to complain about it. It seems like such a simple thing; to only want people to be themselves, to chase their own dreams at my side while I chase mine; to help each other of our own volition rather than out of obligation; to find people who would prefer to stand on their own, the way I do. I love emotional sharing, I love taking on someone's pain, I love crying for their problems - none of this upsets me. What upsets me is simply being asked to be there when I don't want to be, or can't. Once in a while it's understandable, but in a grander scheme, I cannot tolerate people who expect too much of me. I am allergic and immune to their expectations, and impositions on me never end well.

But how I feel about people "needing" me for things they could do themselves, goes well beyond logic. It ignites a deep seated rage, ever since I was tiny. When I was young and traumatized, I slapped men for saying "I need you." I told them to go find something that fulfills them; that it's not up to me to do that. I told them to stop riding on my laurels and imposing their happiness on me; I have my own problems. I got them the fuck out of my way and made sure they would never forget what it felt like when I pushed their supposed "needs" out of my path - so that the offense would not be repeated. 

But why does this bother me so much? I can't simply say "Because they're manipulative." People manipulate each other in all sorts of ways. Even withdrawing from a person who loves you is a form of manipulation. Why did this particular manipulation make me so fucking angry?

I have known for a long time that it's my own issue. I'm not really allergic to being needed, because that's not my problem, it's their problem. The real problem is that I'm allergic to needing people. I don't want to be seen for the obsessive, love-starved child that I really am. I don't want anyone to know that their every little action has the power to make me whole or break me into pieces. I don't want them to know I've stalked all their profiles, looking for answers to the question of why they aren't there. I am terrified of being where I'm not wanted, imposing on anyone, being seen or felt as an obstacle in the way of someone's dreams. Asking for love is utterly shameful, and yet, I don't need love any less than anyone else. 

So why am I so dishonest? Why did the idea of saying "I need you," even in my own mind, feel like a grenade at the center of my soul, waiting to destroy me? Why do I bury this grenade so deep down inside that I can't even find it myself? Why is it so easy for me to view my own feelings as an imposition, unwanted baggage, a shameful secret that I hide from the world?

I can rationalize that self-expression is central to me. That robbing someone else of their own expression and dreams would make me a murderer of souls. That I want to be an inspiration for people. I want to be a symbol of expressing oneself against all odds. It's not enough for people to see me in my self-expression - I want them to see themselves in it. I can rationalize that this is all I want.

It's not a lie that expressing myself, and being true to myself, and wanting others to feel that I am a mirror that helps them be true to themselves rather than an obstacle holding them back, is central to me, and maybe even something I like about myself. But deep down, I know that my volcanic reaction to people who rely on others, stems from my own insecurity. I'm fighting my own vulnerability. I'm fighting the idea of needing anyone else because I don't want to lose myself. I can handle rejection, I can handle betrayal, I can handle loss.. I still have myself. To need someone else, is to lose the integrity of my identity. It is equivalent to losing my voice... except worse, because my singing voice was a vessel through which my soul was expressed, and rooting my dreams in someone else would mean losing my soul. 

But in truth, it's not losing my soul. My soul loves and needs to be loved. What I'm really losing, is _control_. And in that sense, I am no better than those who are rooted so deeply in others that they try to control them. I am guilty of trying to control my own expression of feelings, to the point of distorting their honesty and purity. That might sound like a lesser crime since it affects me and nobody else, except that it's not true: it hurts the people who love me most. And that, in turn, hurts me. Beyond that, if I'm to be completely honest (though it kills me) - I need my love interest to need me above all others. I want to be loved for who I am, not for what I give. If someone needs me, it feels like he doesn't love me. But at the same time, I'll be damned if he loves someone else more than he loves me. And needing someone is part of loving them. So the reality of it is, I _compete_ for this position, because of my own need to be _the best_ in someone's mind. I envy those who can give him something I can't, because I need to be his everything. I am so ashamed of this need of mine, that I fight it with any weapon I have, and destroy my own soul in the process. 

I can begin to forgive people when I understand that they express themselves by giving to others. That this is their art. So for them, losing someone who they "need" is like how it felt for me when I lost my voice. I could never make another person into my own "voice" because I need too strongly to be my own person, and the idea of holding anyone back from being their own person makes me genuinely ill. But there must be some compromise between those people, and me. There must be a way to express my own need for someone to love me and be with me, without completely overlooking their honest self-expression, and without corrupting mine.

I have been trying to learn that compromise for years. Trying to give myself some more space to express my needs outside the context of art. Trying to give myself space to be human. And maybe if I could do that, I would be more forgiving of those who have spent their whole lives focusing on others, and expecting others to do the same in return. I view them as slaves and tyrants, all the while knowing that my autonomy is my own prison, and my need for it is unforgiving. To be a slave is to be robbed of humanity, and I do that to myself.


----------



## Dalton

i'll passive-aggressively say that you can passive-aggressively thank my passive-aggressive posts all day ;3


----------



## Golden Rose

I'm in a complete state of bliss.


----------



## 6007

Under the rage I'm heart broken. 
Again. 
I got divorced and had three bad breakups this year. 

No wonder I'm tired. 

Good lord I love this man but fuck. I don't need to go back for seconds to someone who treats my heart this way. 
I know he loves me, but he doesn't have the right to be careless with my emotions. 

How... Humiliating. I can't fucking believe what happened today. If I had any shame id be too embarrassed to tell people but fuck it. I have no shame. 

I can feel embarrassed for myself but not because of others. 


That is a funny kind of freedom.


----------



## Gorgon

@Animal Wow, thank you for being so honest. I guess the adage "we most hate in others what we most hate in ourselves" is true. Do you feel like since you've worked and struggled for what you got, you get resentful of others who choose not to? Is there even a bit of envy towards others who are able to admit their dependence upon others?

Having people need you stifles who are at your core. It makes you compromise your vision, as well reminding you of your own vulnerability. Vulnerability is an odd thing. You can't fake it like how you can fake virtues. Vulnerability is who we are at our most basic and rawest form. It's our kryptonite. However, there is a strength in expressing vulnerability. I think it makes us more whole and complex human beings. We can really only know ourselves through our relations to others, and expressing vulnerability in the right context is both liberating and enlightening. @Animal I hope you don't take this post in a negative or lecturing way. I'm just babbling lol. I love the passion and sincerity in all your posts especially in your last post.

Speaking of hate, I wish people would stop saying "don't use the word hate, it's a strong word." So is love, yet that word gets passed around like candy. If you hate something or someone, you fucking hate that thing or someone. There's no buts, ifs, or maybes about it. You need strong words to denote strong reactions. It's like these people think that having strong emotions, especially negative ones, is bad. It's not. What's more important are how you rationalize and react to them.


----------



## Gilly

ripley said:


> Good lord I love this man but fuck. I don't need to go back for seconds to someone who treats my heart this way.
> I know he loves me, but he doesn't have the right to be careless with my emotions


I've dealt with this recently. Negative feed back loop. 
Sucks. His defence mechanism is being a douche?

<3. I bet he can be awesome too?

How're you holding up right now?


----------



## 6007

Gilly said:


> I've dealt with this recently. Negative feed back loop.
> Sucks. His defence mechanism is being a douche?
> 
> <3. I bet he can be awesome too?
> 
> How're you holding up right now?


yes yes

it is hitting me hard. Just crying. He's... I don't know. He is someone I love a lot to a point that I don't even understand. There's mental emotional spiritual and physical resonance. But our demons don't play well toghether and we get stuck in ego and we have the same strengths and same weaknesses and his current state of depression, coupled with his slight narcissism and princess ways, makes things hard. I'm no prize either. 

It is a clusterfuck. 

I really love him but today he cast all of it into doubt (again. Something worse happened). I don't know what to do. So I'm not going to do anything. We are both in the wrong. This is like a nightmare.


----------



## Animal

Thanatesque said:


> @_Animal_ I hope you don't take this post in a negative or lecturing way. I'm just babbling lol. I love the passion and sincerity in all your posts especially in your last post.


I love your posts too!

And no, I didn't take it that way at all. I love and agree with every single word of your post. I could have said it myself, and in fact, have said similar things when I'm not "mooding." Really, every component of that post is exactly how I feel about these things.

I have pushed myself to have the strength to be vulnerable for a long time. But if I'm pushing myself into it because I know it's strong, is it really vulnerability? Or is it a struggle for my own self-actualization and betterment?

I told my fiancé @_Sun Daeva_ the three words I thought I would never say: I need you.

I didn't say it because I was pushing myself to be vulnerable. I am already vulnerable with him.. I can't be any other way. I said it because I meant it.. and that is liberating.... and also terrifying.

So, of course, I decided now to announce it in public.


----------



## Gilly

@_ripley_ I'm sorry it's sucking so badly right now. I generally am super anti waiting it out. But if you're dealing with the type I think you are. It's the only thing you can do. 

I don't know what went down (you can pm me if you would like to talk about that privately with someone), but I'm sure many bad things were said on both sides. 

I get the dynamic. I just can't get over mine, and I'm the type who does not struggle boxing people up and never looking back. 

Even while you want to curl in a ball where no one can see you cry, I suspect you also wish you were right next to him. 

I could be wrong though.


----------



## 6007

Gilly said:


> @_ripley_ I'm sorry it's sucking so badly right now. I generally am super anti waiting it out. But if you're dealing with the type I think you are. It's the only thing you can do.
> 
> I don't know what went down (you can pm me if you would like to talk about that privately with someone), but I'm sure many bad things were said on both sides.
> 
> I get the dynamic. I just can't get over mine, and I'm the type who does not struggle boxing people up and never looking back.
> 
> Even while you want to curl in a ball where no one can see you cry, I suspect you also wish you were right next to him.
> 
> I could be wrong though.


Yep. You got it.
what happened? Oh. It was pretty humiliating. But I'll just share it publicly because... Fuck it. I survived my own desire to kill myself so. Fuck. It.

I kind of took for granted we were already a couple. My mistake. We were planning to move in together but details...
After our big fight I just felt like "is this a good connection for me?"
He quite rightly wanted clarity, but was consistent and telling me that he wasn't going to leave, that he wanted me no matter what. He did say, however, that it was up to me. If I wanted to make it official I had to ask because he wasn't going to. 
so I asked, and I guess I wasn't somber enough because he said "I don't know... I think you're just asking because you think blah blah blah..."

um... My emotional uterus just got shot in the face. 
I was silent and got off the phone. 
Then, enraged, I texted him 
I am done. 
This is over. 
Take care. 

Then he said 
wow
really

so I said 
fuck off

like I said. I am no prize. 
But I felt tricked and humiliated. He's been so consistent for months that this... I have never felt more foolish or heartbroken in my life.


----------



## Gilly

@ripley. Ah <3

I know your head space. Take tonight. Cry. But from what you say. This is a keeper. 

If if you two can talk. If he can understand what you felt. It will be ok. 

The he way I feel about commitment (even though I drive everything towards long term from day 1), is like a burn victim. 

I over respond. I feel all the feelings x1000. It's very important, if you can, to put the feelings inside a glass box where you can see them and not feel them. Put the whole event there. Figure it out. 

Right it all down. I think you're afraid, and his hesitation (or seemingly hesitation) hurt you beyond words. 

I dont think hunk that would have been his intention. 

He never ever *means* to hurt you. Right?

im sorry if I'm reading the scenario wrong <3
hope you're feeling a bit better.


----------



## Animal

ripley said:


> He did say, however, that it was up to me. If I wanted to make it official I had to ask because he wasn't going to.
> so I asked, and I guess I wasn't somber enough because he said "I don't know... I think you're just asking because you think blah blah blah..."
> 
> um... My emotional uterus just got shot in the face.
> I was silent and got off the phone.
> Then, enraged, I texted him
> I am done.
> This is over.
> Take care.
> 
> Then he said
> wow
> really
> 
> so I said
> fuck off


I would have done the same. It takes so much nerve to come out and say "let's make it official" - 

It's hard enough to give someone the chance to reject me once. Allowing someone to reject me _twice_???? Only one person has managed, and I made him suffer for 2 years ... he only got a second chance into my heart because of two beautiful years of friendship followed by falling on his knees, crying over me, begging me to believe him when he said he loved me.

I told him "Don't tell me this love shit. If you want to fuck, just ask."
His response
"I was fucking these two models the other night, wishing I was with my best friend instead.. you. You are my best friend. I love you" [tears]

I told him the truth then, since he was so honest.
"There's a dam in my heart, holding back powerful feelings. If you break it, I'll never get over you. So don't fuck around. Just tell me you want to have sex and cut the love stuff out NOW."

But he persisted, crying, begging..

Sigh. He managed to reject me twice.


BUT NEVER EVER AGAIN! *fist in air*


[addendum: I got over him after 7 years and writing 2 music albums to process feelings...  ]


----------



## 6007

Gilly said:


> @_ripley_. Ah <3
> 
> I know your head space. Take tonight. Cry. But from what you say. This is a keeper.
> 
> If if you two can talk. If he can understand what you felt. It will be ok.
> 
> The he way I feel about commitment (even though I drive everything towards long term from day 1), is like a burn victim.
> 
> I over respond. I feel all the feelings x1000. It's very important, if you can, to put the feelings inside a glass box where you can see them and not feel them. Put the whole event there. Figure it out.
> 
> Right it all down. I think you're afraid, and his hesitation (or seemingly hesitation) hurt you beyond words.
> 
> I dont think hunk that would have been his intention.
> 
> He never ever *means* to hurt you. Right?
> 
> im sorry if I'm reading the scenario wrong <3
> hope you're feeling a bit better.


just because someone doesn't mean to hurt me, does that make it ok? Real question, not accusatory. I'm pretty spaced out. 
To say the exact wrong thing out of butthurt or mental retardation?
He told me what he wanted to hear and we agreed not to fight any more. Why say basically NO after saying "this is what I want."
i don't like games. 
I don't speak emotions; I am dramatic as all fuck inside, like any istp, but I don't *understand* his... Responses. 
If he was here, I'd slap him until his lip bled and then hug him. My god am I angry and sad. It's like a rollercoaster in my head.


----------



## 6007

Animal said:


> I would have done the same. It takes so much nerve to come out and say "let's make it official" -
> 
> It's hard enough to give someone the chance to reject me once. Allowing someone to reject me _twice_???? Only one person has managed, and I made him suffer for 2 years ... he only got a second chance into my heart because of two beautiful years of friendship followed by falling on his knees, crying over me, begging me to believe him when he said he loved me.
> 
> I told him "Don't tell me this love shit. If you want to fuck, just ask."
> His response
> "I was fucking these two models the other night, wishing I was with my best friend instead.. you. You are my best friend. I love you" [tears]
> 
> I told him the truth then, since he was so honest.
> "There's a dam in my heart, holding back powerful feelings. If you break it, I'll never get over you. So don't fuck around. Just tell me you want to have sex and cut the love stuff out NOW."
> 
> But he persisted, crying, begging..
> 
> Sigh. He managed to reject me twice.
> 
> 
> BUT NEVER EVER AGAIN! *fist in air*
> 
> 
> [addendum: I got over him after 7 years and writing 2 music albums to process feelings...  ]


Oh
my
fucking
god

...words...

i would... Step on his neck. Raze his village. Poison his crops. Gouge out his eyes. 
And on his final resting place. I would dance.


----------



## 6007

I really appreciate having a safe place to vent these emotions. Im feeling lighter already.


----------



## Gilly

ripley said:


> I really appreciate having a safe place to vent these emotions. Im feeling lighter already.


hmmm. You're istp, what's he?

You did hit the nail on the head. He doesn't mean to hurt you, can that be enough?

You hurt him to, is it okay enough for him?

Do the pros outweigh the cons?


----------



## 6007

Gilly said:


> hmmm. You're istp, what's he?
> 
> You did hit the nail on the head. He doesn't mean to hurt you, can that be enough?
> 
> You hurt him to, is it okay enough for him?
> 
> Do the pros outweigh the cons?


he is an infj. Really down on his luck right now, and it feels like he is trying to see how far he can self destruct. I could be wrong about that. Not sure about his enneatype... I suspect four and six are in the tritype but I may be wrong.
and I am totally with you. I don't think it's ok if I hurt him either. 
We get so trapped in ego it's not even remotely cute.


----------



## Animal

ripley said:


> Oh
> my
> fucking
> god
> 
> ...words...
> 
> i would... Step on his neck. Raze his village. Poison his crops. Gouge out his eyes.
> And on his final resting place. I would dance.


I know. I got my revenge. I ate his damn heart out. 

Not only did I make him suffer with my (act of) indifference for years, but in the end, I handed him my album.

My album was a huge project. I was a professional singer and lost my voice to an illness at age 16. Now I speak in a whisper. I have been writing songs all my life. It was nothing short of absolute trauma.

He is a brilliant, inspiring guitar player who impresses even world-class musicians (This is not a figure of speech - I know some). He moved me with his guitar playing.. I've written "killing me softly" style songs about what it does to my soul. He inspired me through and through and we played music together. I play piano and he plays guitar.

After I moved away (following the second rejection) - I was about 2 hours away by public transportation, so I'd still visit. But I started my own band, singing lead through my whisper, playing my songs. Recording my album was expensive and exceedingly difficult and tiring.. I produced, played, sang, arranged etc.. I was back and forth between musicians, rehearsals, shows, studios, trying to stay thin for stage.. really poured my heart and soul into it. I embodied a male alter-ego who plays guitar, and took pictures of myself next to my male self, and he was always with his guitar. I woke up every day with a burning need to get my music out there, to release my angst, to be better than my ex could ever be... to *win*. I would cry myself to sleep and wake up angry again, full of energy to conquer, over and over. I would not rest until he was defeated.

My ex was going to play on the album but he fucked around with schedules. So I hired my family friend, a world class musician, to play guitar instead. I wrote every solo myself. My ex can play like no other, he can even cover Jeff Beck and make people cry just from his playing.. but he can't write. My guitar solos were on fucking fire.

The album was set up as a conversation between vocals and guitar. Granted, I wrote some songs before, rewrote some and wrote some new ones. But it was a concept album about my journey with my "male alter ego," whose voice was the guitar. I also took pictures of me and "him" and damn I make a sexy man, if I may say so myself.

I handed him the album. He still hadn't done anything with his music beyond playing covers in bars. He shook and had tears in his eyes. Despite my serious chronic illness and losing my voice to a whisper, I did it first. He said.. "I can't believe you did it.. I'm so proud of you.. " his eyes teared. Under his breath.. "I wish I did it too.."

It destroyed him. He inspired me with guitar but I wrote something original - something he could never do. I put my feelings out for the world to see - something he could never do. I embodied what I was looking for in an alter-ego... rendering him irrelevant. My alter-ego was a symbol of all the men in my life, or something inside me, it wasn't based on him alone... he said so himself and he was right. My father is a guitarist after all, and I have always been a musician so I have other guitarist exes. My alter ego could be anyone, but really, he is me. I didn't need my ex any more. I was my own guitarist, my own lover, my own hero. And he was still drunk. Just like I said in my lyrics. The guitar lines were painful and desperate, revealing that I was well fucking aware that he was crying about it, but too cowardly to say it in words.


He was miserable, touched, confused, blown away by that album. He was timid and putty afterwards. But I had another boyfriend who I was living with, who played the guitar parts I wrote on stage with my band, and was much taller than him and gorgeous. I loved watching him suffer.


----------



## Gilly

@Rinnie Had to wait long enough 

lol. Looks awesome. I want to steal it. And your face. 

Maybe a bit too creepy?


----------



## cinnabun

Gilly said:


> @_Rinnie_ Had to wait long enough
> 
> lol. Looks awesome. I want to steal it. And your face.
> 
> Maybe a bit too creepy?












Creep away:wink:.


----------



## Gilly

Rinnie said:


> Creep away:wink:.


Oh baby. I like your style. ./so hawt


----------



## Gorgon

I desire and hate men. I hate that I desire them. I don't know if I want to punch them, humiliate them or fuck them, or maybe all at the same time. They're need to conquer and desire for glory is invigorating, yet destructive. I hate that masculinity is traditionally predicated upon violence and oppression. Yet, I envy their power. I'm tired of being competitive with other women to get the attention of men. We already live in a culture that devalues women and femininity, I should be standing up for other women. I don't need to hate other women. When I was more promiscuous, I used my sexuality to overpower men. I used them like they used me. I weaponized my femininity. I was punishing them (at least in my head). It's a deadly mixture of hate, rage, aggression, desire, and longing boiling over in an overheated cauldron.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Thanatesque said:


> I desire and hate men. I hate that I desire them. I don't know if I want to punch them, humiliate them or fuck them, or maybe all at the same time. They're need to conquer and desire for glory is invigorating, yet destructive. I hate that masculinity is traditionally predicated upon violence and oppression. Yet, I envy their power.


Heh, I was thinking at first of how your post sounded kind of ironic, but then you do end up saying you envy them so guess you're aware of it.


----------



## Gorgon

Distortions said:


> Heh, I was thinking at first of how your post sounded kind of ironic, but then you do end up saying you envy them so guess you're aware of it.


Admittedly, there is a lot of irony and contradictions haha.


----------



## 6007

I am completely overwhelmed with work. 
I am about to do some more but im tired and want to cry. 
I miss my infj and want to have aggressive sex but he's not here and I won't see him for a month and I don't wanna whine. 
After we were fighting I explained I wasn't sure if he was a safe connection for me. He grew concerned and I was self and other aware enough to say "no. I don't want a solution. I am telling you concerns. I am full of poison from fighting. I need you to suck it out."
he said: you need aftercare?
i said: yes please

I felt safer. 

Sigh. I really hate that in order to protect my energy I have to cut people out. I so deeply want warmth and love in my
life. I just want a hug or even a handshake. I just want to go home. 

To my chest... Where my heart is.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Thanatesque said:


> Admittedly, there is a lot of irony and contradictions haha.


Yeah. Well, I guess I can see where you're coming from, sort of. Although it's a bit generalizing but at times I do feel male sexuality seems off-putting, yet it seems more fulfilling, or... Hm, can't think of a good way of explaining it. >_>


----------



## 6007

Solution: sleep in yoga gear, go to yoga early in the morning. 
Yes. Good plan. I will see human faces and that will help me not feel so isolated. 
And yoga is my favorite. 
And moving energy. 

There are zero downsides to this plan.


----------



## NomadLeviathan

This fire has about burned out.


----------



## Donovan

@Animal

more, as another poster would say, books to read: in spoilers, cause you know, otherwise it'd just crash everyone's browser... 


* *




i'm glad you were there Animal. and i really like the ending to that story. it worked out well... good on you for being brave. 


she got left here by her ex-girlfriend, after they had been moving around together from state to state, following her g-friend's job... the other girl said she had to go up north for a bit, and then left her with a lease. 
she was in bad shape, and would go a little overboard in order to feel better. one night she wanted a guy to come back to her and her roommate's place, and i didn't think anything of it because she still seemed cognizant, if a little wild. her roommate was flipping out saying that she didn't know what she was doing. next thing i know he's trying to fight the other guy, he locks her in the car, and she jumps out while it's moving, messing up one of her feet pretty badly (wearing flip-flops at the time). 

i go over there and make everyone calm down, she still seems "all there" (actively showing intent in what she wants, not slurring her words, her eyes aren't unfocused) despite jumping out of a car, so i tell them all to go back to their place. the roommate keeps freaking out and saying that her and i love each other and she's drunk and shouldn't be doing this. she approaches me and asks me if that's true... i eventually leave because it doesn't seem right to intervene... people want what they want, and you have to allow it...

the next day the guy slinks out first thing in the morning. she feels really bad and doesn't talk to anyone for a few days, says she remembers nothing, not even jumping out of a moving vehicle... so that, combined with something she told me once, something that happened to her when she was very young, and my own problems of not being to take care of anyone that was around me while i was young (something that made me close off in my own way), kind of primed the situation. 


i feel like i've given the impression of being something noble. i'm not. 
after hearing what was told to me by the co-worker, i took her aside and told her to watch herself. it freaked her out that the friend even mentioned it, let alone was aiming for it. 
the next day we spend all day drinking. after what had to be, at a conservative estimate: 15-20 shots, not counting how many beers or cocktails, over a 12 hour period without food, we are all pretty far gone. 
i walk back into the bar and see her making out with one of the friends, and i don't know what happened...

looking back on it, when i picture the situation, what comes to mind is what happened when she was younger (something that only i know--not even her parents), the situation of the night she'd rather forget (when "jumped"), and what was said by her friend... 
i went to pull her away and then to deal with the guy... but she flew. 
in my drunken, issue-filled rage i had flung her to the ground without even meaning to. i know that i'm strong for my size, and stronger than people far larger than myself; i always have been. average height and weight, but always excelled at football, power-lifting, track--effortlessly move heavy objects at work and maneuver them quickly around the maze of people on a dime, while our big 6'3 250 pounders have their backs bowed and are weezing and struggling to do the same (even on my diet of alcohol, a pack of cigs and a single meal a day)... and i don't even look it, it always surprises people, and it always caused me to get passed up while first getting started in the field, until they saw me play, and then i was leading the huddles for my defensive teams... 
and i know it was an accident, i know what fucked-up inner reverie caused it, but it doesn't matter. she flew. hit the ground. sprawled out and tensed in fear (it looked primal in a way, or instinctive, but instinctively fearful)...
all i could think was, "wait... what just happened... what just happened... what...?", and then i could feel someone trying to take me out, and i stalled, telling them to "_wait, please!_", and then that's when the fighting began... 

i think she's right to be scared though. who allows themselves to hurt someone they care about? who's that fucked up? i don't even know if it's a good idea for her to be around me if i cannot control myself, if i allow my problems to control me, even while intoxicated to the point that i'm excusing myself from a table at work the next day, to throw up in the bathroom over, and over, and over during the entirety of a shift...? 
i was blacked out but i still hate myself for what happened. i'm torn between wanting to be her friend and i, myself, not wanting to see her again, because i don't even know if that's the right thing to do here... 

and then all the drunk texting trying to make things better, because that was the only time either of would ever broach a problem, when we were on something (or through a medium where we were not face to face--and i have no idea, cause that is not like me, but i was always so scared of "being too much" for her, that i had to recoil from my usual ways)... 

so not only did i physically assault her (accidental or not), and then try to extricate myself from feeling rejected by preemptively rejecting and then blaming her for everything, and telling her to just "fuck off and move on your own", "do your own thing, i'll do mine. don't _fucking_ contact me"--when it was _my fault_--i did this during a period of time when, little did i know, one of her good friends was threatening to kill herself, and then flip-flopped when i heard she was sleeping with someone i work with... which is another story altogether... 

she (this is beginning to seem like a pathetic show made for teenagers, and i'm well past that age; we all are) needed someone to be there for her. i was trying to be that person. my phone fucked up for a while, and i had too much going in my own life (intimate problems) to even realize others might be trying to contact me... 
she already felt dejected and low, so she sought out comfort, but she did so with a guy who's notorious for acting like a "good guy", to then only get girls drunk or just to get into their pants in some way, and then he goes around letting everyone know who it was and how difficult it was for it to have occurred (because he can be an insecure twat sometimes). 
that happened, i overheard him telling everyone person i work with, and was just like, "_ooookayyy_, not my business but her's". i gave her a heads up about it, and she went out of her way to tell me it wasn't true (which i really didn't understand why she would lie)... 
so, i heard it was happening again, with the same pattern where she feels hurt and/or rejected by me, and so puts herself into a situation that has to mimic what occurred earlier in life--only this time it was my doing that put her into a situation where she'd hurt herself... 

but she doesn't know this is why my behavior has seemed so all over the place... i just seem crazy. i think i may be a little crazy... she's scared of me (rightfully so), is hurt by me (rightfully so), and is just at a loss of what to do. i've told her time and time again that if she just doesn't want to see me again, to just let me know, and i'll do that... but nothing.
and i don't even know how to explain my motivations to her, and there's no way it'd work out without me doing so... i really don't know how to handle it, which is weird for me... 
all i really wanted to do was do what we always did: sit on her bed and binge-watch netflix, with nothing but the lamp on, and slowly forming something solid... and smoking a little bit of pot every now and then (haha)... 

again, i love her, i just have no idea how i love her, and for that reason alone i just want to be her friend. but she thinks i'm dangerous, and who knows, maybe she's right. i mean, i've gotten into some pretty bad spots for being someone who's as smart as i am--being held at gunpoint overnight, accidentally giving someone a seizure while fighting (or something--his whole body seized up and it was just an ugly night)/etc, to infinity and beyond *rolls eyes*... 
and i just have so much fucking rage inside of me man. i really don't know what to do with it. i want to check out one of these PTSD-meetups in my area, but i feel like an asshole for even contemplating it. and even then, i'd need to be the one helping them, or to at least feel as if i was, and then it'd be no different than what a part of me is doing with her: it's like i need to be saving _someone_, to feel as if i have worth, to keep myself stable(?). i really just don't know. i don't know how to see it all, which is again, weird for me... 

people that i work with found out about it, but they seem to think it's no big deal. someone joked that they were surprised i didn't kill an entire village (and then asked if they could make out with my neck, so maybe they're just a weirdo), while another just threw up his hands and pretended to plead that i didn't throw him to the ground, like it was a joke...? 
(but they both have crushes on me and don't know/care about my friend really, so i guess i should expect them to make light of the situation)

in any case, i tried asking her roommate what happened that night and he got defensive like i was prying for information (a guy who used to quiz us incessantly on what "we were", and asking if her and i hook up sometimes--it's like, we're obviously not hurting each other so fuck off and get a godamn life you motherfucker)... 
i just wanted to make sure what i was trying to prevent--a repeat of her abuse, and my having to "watch" other's receive abuse of a sort--did not in fact occur in a self-fulfilling prophecy, due to my over-zealous nature... because that thought was killing me, and i've just been torturing myself endlessly with it... but, he probably thinks i'm just crazier for asking, and has probably told her as well. damn, hahaha, oh well.




@infinity paradox 


* *




i don't think he is autistic, though others have mentioned the possibility. the impression i get is that while he grew up rich, his father left at an early age and it was just he and his mother, and she sheltered him far, far too much. 
he seems disconnected in a way, or disassociated from his surroundings; neurotic, and always praised for being a good baptist boy, and if he achieves that then he doesn't have to do much else...
like he's way too much in his head, because he can be there, because it's "safe" and "doesn't hurt" (a learned behavior), and because there will be someone to take care of him, or to do what _he_ needs to do. 
the flapping of his arms seems more like a nervous tick than anything--people will commonly use their gestures or quick phrases such as "behind" (usually screamed) where i work, in order to move quickly past each other. 

the projection is where i deny what i see as his dependency within myself (with very few people, my emotions can destroy me), only his is much more expansive, covering more avenues in life than mine would be. 
also, his niceness seems easy to have when you've got things to fall back on, when (and this isn't fair, as it likely isn't true--of anyone on the planet) you can just _not_ learn anything around you, when you don't have to try, and then you have to hear the same old questions time and time again when the last think you'd ever want to do is speak to another person, when you should be focusing anyhow on providing for yourself and trying to double-time solve whatever issue is currently got a piece of your mind in its clutches... it's like he snaps me out of whatever i'm trying to work on mentally to ask a question that is completely unnecessary and random, but he's just trying to connect and he wasn't raised in such a way as to know his social moors all that well outside of the sphere that has been his life, all his life... so i should cut him a break, i know.
but on the flipside, accepting that i can lessen my own focus or will (which is haphazard at best, as i'm not healthy), in order to let myself and others metaphorically breath into one another, could actually be what is missing in my life--and it's only natural that i will fight against that, as fighting against it has allowed me to get where i am currently (didn't kill myself when i was younger). 

and i have no idea how to be friends with guys really. they can become good acquaintances, but there's always a part of my mind that reserves itself to attack if need be, or to just walk away from them, without feeling anything whatsoever. it's fucked up, but the animosity is like a cold, dark blanket--one that allows me to numb out whatever softer emotion i may have (i really cannot do the same with women, if we become close, platonically or otherwise)...
maybe that's why i also have an aversion to this person (i want to say that i'm always nice to him and always entertain his talks, for the both of us--for very different reasons i imagine, when it comes to each of us--and i always refrain from being a dick to this guy, as that would spiral me into my oblivion that i am in fact a monster, because he is not like other people, let alone your average/common denominator male, or even human). 
and i've had "bromances" before (lol, that word). the door guy that i threw up against the wall was one. i actually really do like _him_ a lot, but the last time i saw him, while walking back into the bar, his eyes just got really wide, and he was like, "... hey!", and just stared at me... wide-eyed... so i leaned over and patted him on the leg, thanked him for doing what was right... 
we are super weird around each other, now, regardless. 

but no, the person you're speaking about, the person i work with, he's oblivious. everyone just gets together and "good-naturedly"... well, demeans him. they all love him in their own way, but if it's time to cut someone, everyone pleads that they send him home early, as they don't want to give their money to him (how he's paid) for their doing a lot of his job... 
i say we keep him because he's rare, and special after a fashion (in a good way), and because we can just work harder to makeup for his ineptitude (what i'm willing to voice and influence is usually different than how i actually feel, if you think there was a contradiction between this post and the last). i actually try to go back over things, and actually explain the why in depth, so he can learn, but it's like trying to teach a child who doesn't understand their responsibility as of yet...

and see, already, looking at things in this fashion is making me feel better. this is what i have to do. just be a better person. see the good in things. i don't know how, but that is the only way i could ever be in the state of mind to not feel so much incredible shame, that i could even look her in the eyes while explaining myself, let alone be clearheaded enough to speak it all without it being a confused jumbled mess that makes no sense. 
i can't figure it out, and _then_ be happy and un-mired. i have to already _be_ happy and un-mired to figure it out--which is not my usual method of attack, but will just have to be something i try in the meantime, lest i keep repeating the same mistakes... basically, it'll cause something new to occur.

amazing song by the way, have always loved it. never saw the video though--but dark and surreal, just the way i like it... and that quote, just wow... seems like a metaphor for my entire life man; truly does... i have always been kind of a beast in certain ways... 

i guess i'll just have to let things clear, for me and her. and then put myself out there, send her an email, as opposed to text, so she's not getting 30 billion in a blackedout drunken stupor... cause that always makes a person seem sane. 




@Gilly


* *




why unhinged?

because, apparently, i had given everyone the wrong impression. i never even meant to say this much, anonymous or not, but i guess it's good that i do.
the only other person i have personally told (as opposed to everyone hearing about it thirdhand--and they can all kiss my ass if they choose to have an opinion [those in real life that is) is my roomie, and she just made it seem worse by looking really sad for me... 
i'm really, once again--and again, weird for me--not sure what to even think... 
so maybe i should just let myself rest. still getting that skype info by the way Gilly.





and by the way *deserving of not being in spoilers* thanks y'all. this has actually, really, helped. i didn't think it would, i was actually just looking to write out all the reasons i hate myself and then have it confirmed... but really, don't hold back. honesty is what i'd like. and it'd be nice to hear something objective, as what i'm currently going with is fucking dark. 

and that makes me think that maybe *sorry, i feel that this post isn't quite long enough yet* i can't possibly address things to a normal person, if i'm trying to find every single way in which i'm defective and broken, and ugly. i have to actually be a good spot in order to discuss things. i just have to learn how to be happy, which is alien, as i've always been under the impression that you first have to "fix" things... but the true approach is a little more counter-intuitive than that, me thinks. 

... roomate's boyfriend just brought over a bottle of jameson, so i'm takin' a shot and high-tailin' it to get a milkshake, maffas, .


----------



## Gilly

@_Donovan_ Venting shit, even to a wall of people that don't feel real to you, can help immensely. I personally, need to feel like someone might hear me, even if they aren't there - I'm the type that will rant in vent when everyone is afk. I need to get it out *somewhere*. The possibility of objective (or subjective) feedback is an insane perk, even when I don't like what I hear - especially when I don't like what I hear. 

If I wanted my opinion, I'd just talk to myself. I like when people give me other angles.. It's what you're getting too.
Also - If one feels retarded later, you never have to deal with any of us again 
<3

@ My phone - 
We got into this relationship semi recently. I understand you want to help. It makes me happy when you correct my fail spelling. But are you having jealousy issues or something? Every time I write to someone, anyone, even making a random forum post. You insist on adding in extra words. It's annoying, and painful, and what's worse is that they rarely make any sense. WTF was "hunk" for? Mo? rwk? to to, so by, or more. These are not required additions to my random rants. 

Please. You're driving me not so slowly insane. 

Have mercy.

./sob

@ My romantic interest I ended things with - 
I love you, I hate that I love you. I hate that you are a puzzle for my brain that I can not solve. Like the perfect level in a video game, it's wrong in all the right ways, and just when you think you've unlocked it. It resets and you just *have* to finish, but all the parts you've just figured out have been randomly reset in a different pattern.

When I met you, I said I loved how simple and basic you were, you were able to be thoughtless. How can anyone be so free of thought so often? I was of course, very wrong. I know now you think, but are afraid of your thoughts. 
There is nothing simple about you. You are much more complex than anyone I have ever met because you refuse to introspect.
You want one thing and you do another.

I love a challenge, I like to win, I like to be wrong, to be proven wrong, I like to see you rage, and I like to see you laugh. I love that you think the world is shit, but are determined to enjoy whatever you can. You set yourself free when I refuse to indulge. 

You hate that I can see inside you, it makes you feel disarmed and weak.

You're a douchebag and you treat me like shit, and if you were any other way, I'd have boxed you up and shelved you a couple weeks after I met you. You make me feel, all the feels, the good, the bad, and the horrible. 

Tonight you raged at me, because I ended it, and then I raged at you for being weak and acting like a sheep. I hurt you, and you wanted to hurt me too. You wanted to make me feel bad, and be wrong, you wanted to justify your rage towards me.
Instead it devolved into sex games, and I narrowly escaped going too far. But maybe devolving at all was too far.

We keep crawling back to each other, we could bring out the best in each other, I see it, it's there. We aren't good for each other. It wasn't written in the stars. We should walk away.


If you're like the sun that blinds me, then I am the black hole that sucks you dry.






All the eye candy.


----------



## infinity paradox

@Thanatesque 


Thanatesque said:


> I desire and hate men. I hate that I desire them. I don't know if I want to punch them, humiliate them or fuck them, or maybe all at the same time. They're need to conquer and desire for glory is invigorating, yet destructive. I hate that masculinity is traditionally predicated upon violence and oppression. Yet, I envy their power. I'm tired of being competitive with other women to get the attention of men. We already live in a culture that devalues women and femininity, I should be standing up for other women. I don't need to hate other women. When I was more promiscuous, I used my sexuality to overpower men. I used them like they used me. I weaponized my femininity. I was punishing them (at least in my head). It's a deadly mixture of hate, rage, aggression, desire, and longing boiling over in an overheated cauldron.


I feel the same difference with this one. I've known for a long time that I desire both men and women. And that I don't relate to structured gender roles. I consider myself a solid humanist and yes, feminist as well (for me meaning we give/have/take equally). I don't hate men, or put them down. I don't want or need power over anyone or anything unless that thing or personal is hurting me or making me suffering. Then I have to exert my control or become dominant, in order to put myself in my rightful place. 

I feel like being a woman in and of itself is empowering. This is more and more evident to me the farther and further I move away from mainstream society, media, and the people that are brainwashed by those things. Yes, I understand that brainwashed is a loaded word but I find it to be fitting. Everyone is too much the same and too much different to fit into these roles that seem to have almost no basis in objective reality. There are biological differences yes, but I find that most often the gender roles have little or even nothing to do with the biology and how we truly think, desire, lust, feel, need and want. 

I stand up for other women and will defend them zealously. The problem with this is that I become hurt and even rageful when the favor is not returned or worse, when the very same women get nasty, competitive in a non-friendly or even aggressively cruel manner, and I've had this happen over and over. For instance when a female you try to help tries to fuck your boyfriend/girlfriend/ fiance/husband. This has happened to me many times, although I noticed it was much worse when I was in relationships with men. This is when I get hateful, and bring out the "alpha" side..which is actually strong in me. The problem is maybe deep down I do feel I am better for realizing what other being don't, and being what other people aren't. I am humble about it however, and refuse to change myself to make others feel "more comfortable." I see that they are threatened and try to attack and destroy it/ me/power they feel I have over them. By doing so, it only gives me more power, and all I need to do is show the person they are trying to fuck/get/impress or let him show it for themselves. They lose in this way, although I'm not sure if I've "won." I simply don't care to play that game. Only dumb people fall for it...

I can see what you mean about weaponizing femininity. I never really felt like that, although I did fuck who I wanted and was always in complete control. I never let anyone tell me that I was a bad person, a "slut" for having sex with who I wanted, when I wanted. In that way, I'd be more like what society considers "male." I had no time, respect or much breath for anyone who tried to tell me anything different. I'd say "guys do it," "your point is..." and things of that nature before walking away, ignoring them or if they triggered me, telling them to fuck off. 

I do somewhat relate to feeling anger bordering on hatred at the beginning of developing strong feelings (usually romantic) for someone. I don't know why I do that, but for a period of time, everything about the person will piss me off. I guess it's some sort of defense mechanism. 

Also, when I deeply desire a man or lust them, I can want it so badly, to possess them, their body...that it sometimes boils over into something I can only describe as wanting to be them. When you are touching someone, kissing them...and you no longer feel space between the skin...I can crave that to an insane degree. Obviously sex is connecting, but it goes beyond that for me...even pulling the person close to sleep next to them, and wanting to be closer, closer, closer. 

...I guess that's sort of what they mean by "merging" even though it has more spiritual and heart aspects. 

Also since I'm queer and gender fluid... I've had body and even penis envy, (mostly when I was with women) but since I mostly sleep with men, it usually is able to coalesce into a healthy? desire to be touched and sexed by the person I am involved with...

When I lust, this seems to be heightened, maybe it's that power struggle inside that you describe... A woman can be the seducer and the one in power, in most ways, but with many men there are times when either one or both desire to feel the "fitting locks" ... I want his hands on me, I want to be his hands on me....I want him to be inside of me, but I want to be inside of him...

When I love someone, this desire can remain but I find it calmed.


----------



## infinity paradox

ripley said:


> He grew concerned and I was self and other aware enough to say "no. I don't want a solution. I am telling you concerns. I am full of poison from fighting. I need you to suck it out."
> he said: you need aftercare?
> i said: yes please
> 
> I felt safer.


 @ripley As someone who always looks for solutions, this can annoy the ever living fuck out of me...I mean... If someone tells me they just need to be heard and need care, I am good at that, too. But why do I often deal with people who can't express their needs and then I'm left to make these kinds of mistakes...Offering solutions when all they wanted was to be comforted? Especially men who refuse to ask for help :angry: 

(by the way reading your posts and respecting your feeling process, this relates)


----------



## Ace Face

There is absolutely no circumstance under which what you've been doing is okay. It's not okay. I understand insecurity and ignorance. Those are convenient excuses, but this... this goes far beyond insecurity and ignorance. I've not come across too many people that are this outwardly and exponentially wicked and soulless. This has very little to do with environment, and everything to do with character. You have no character and you have no integrity. I genuinely pity you. What a miserable life to lead. You've literally done nothing of which you can be proud. I assume this is why you seem so indifferent to the destruction you've caused. It's the closest to being proud you are probably ever going to get. It's the only thing you've "accomplished" in this life. Our friendship is a lost memory. You did this to yourself, and you know it. Deep down inside, you know. That's why you hate yourself.


----------



## 6007

infinity paradox said:


> @_ripley_ As someone who always looks for solutions, this can annoy the ever living fuck out of me...I mean... If someone tells me they just need to be heard and need care, I am good at that, too. But why do I often deal with people who can't express their needs and then I'm left to make these kinds of mistakes...Offering solutions when all they wanted was to be comforted? Especially men who refuse to ask for help :angry:
> 
> (by the way reading your posts and respecting your feeling process, this relates)


i always look for solutions too, but there are truly times I just need to release emotion. 
I have not yet learned to ask someone "do you want solutions or to vent?"
that seems the next step.


----------



## infinity paradox

@Animal, by the way I love your target practice paper talking about love. LOL.

I have a regular bull-eye one I kept that has almost all of my shots in the center, and considering I kinda need glasses, I did pretty well  I wonder how much of that skill I can indulge


----------



## 6007

Apparently I am just hyped up on energy period. Yoga and an orgasm were not enough. I am just amped. 
Maybe a walk will help? I feel way too juiced.


----------



## Gilly

You guys. I think ace face has a bloody knife somewhere. 
If that sentiment was thrown my way, I'd be bleeding hardcore. 
Well done on the wording. 

I feel like whatever it was, I'm posting this ./Toosoon

I know its a rhetorical rant. ./mental hugs
./will help burry the body
./call me


----------



## 6007

Ace Face said:


> There is absolutely no circumstance under which what you've been doing is okay. It's not okay. I understand insecurity and ignorance. Those are convenient excuses, but this... this goes far beyond insecurity and ignorance. I've not come across too many people that are this outwardly and exponentially wicked and soulless. This has very little to do with environment, and everything to do with character. You have no character and you have no integrity. I genuinely pity you. What a miserable life to lead. You've literally done nothing of which you can be proud. I assume this is why you seem so indifferent to the destruction you've caused. It's the closest to being proud you are probably ever going to get. It's the only thing you've "accomplished" in this life. Our friendship is a lost memory. You did this to yourself, and you know it. Deep down inside, you know. That's why you hate yourself.


fuck. 
Sociopath?
glad you're free now, but that cannot have been without a great cost to you emotionally.


----------



## infinity paradox

@Donovan

Substance abuse problems definitely cloud all the situations and put an extra layer of darkness over everything, because people are not making decisions with a clear head. And yeah, all the hooking up with others that she or both? of you are doing doesn't make it easier. I love to drink and etc, In the past I was a bit more wild but my things are much more limited now.

Also, I see the both of you have roommates of opposite sexes. Not to say that is inherently bad but there seems to be a lot of mixed interactions and clusterfuck with the same people in your lives. That adds confusion, hurt and fuckery of all kinds...

It's good that you are trying to work through all of this and I definitely think it's important to become healthy before you fully approach things...yes sometimes the reverse has to happen or you can do both at the same time, but in this case I agree that you need to heal some before confronting her directly. 

_
"amazing song by the way, have always loved it. never saw the video though--but dark and surreal, just the way i like it... and that quote, just wow... seems like a metaphor for my entire life man; truly does... i have always been kind of a beast in certain ways... 
_
Yeah, I am a big fan of TOOL's work. I am seeing some of the videos myself for the first time after listening to them for years. ...The quote, I am so glad you relate to it, I thought you might. I remember it after reading and seeing "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," one of my favorites 

_
"i guess i'll just have to let things clear, for me and her. and then put myself out there, send her an email, as opposed to text, so she's not getting 30 billion in a blackedout drunken stupor... cause that always makes a person seem sane. " _

Definitely. Or even a phone call.. *poke poke* but...not being a huge phone person myself, I can see why you might prefer e-mail. Writing is nice for certain things because there are no interruptions


----------



## infinity paradox

I've been holding it in since yesterday, and I'm definitely less rageful but...

It's amazing to me how some people use their own emotional wreckage and toxicity to get under the skin of someone vulnerable. ... Even worse when it's disguised as "psychic spirituality." Why does your psychic sense not make you realize that you are hurting someone with ridiculous, unfounded nonsense, and fucking their mind up when they are going through something that is hard enough all on it's own?

It's a good thing I'm such a nice, forgiving person, and that I feel bad for those who are weak in any way, in this way it'd be someone mentally and emotionally weaker, because my first instinct when someone I love is threatened is to rip the other person's fucking head off...

oh yeah, it's still there...


----------



## Gilly

infinity paradox said:


> I've been holding it in since yesterday, and I'm definitely less rageful but...
> 
> It's amazing to me how some people use their own emotional wreckage and toxicity to get under the skin of someone vulnerable. ... Even worse when it's disguised as "psychic spirituality." Why does your psychic sense not make you realize that you are hurting someone with ridiculous, unfounded nonsense, and fucking their mind up when they are going through something that is hard enough all on it's own?
> 
> It's a good thing I'm such a nice, forgiving person, and that I feel bad for those who are weak in any way, in this way it'd be someone mentally and emotionally weaker, because my first instinct when someone I love is threatened is to rip the other person's fucking head off...
> 
> oh yeah, it's still there...


I would be inclined to say their 'psychic spirituality' is complete and total bullshit?



Also, ripping people's heads off for harming a loved one. 

* *




Is always cool. 
You can sit by me.


----------



## Ace Face

Gilly said:


> You guys. I think ace face has a bloody knife somewhere.
> If that sentiment was thrown my way, I'd be bleeding hardcore.


Indeed, the truth can be as sharp as a knife. 



> Well done on the wording.


Thanks. I'll be charging $20 if you want one done on your ex 



> I feel like whatever it was, I'm posting this ./Toosoon


Too soon?! No such thing! 



> I know its a rhetorical rant. ./mental hugs
> ./will help burry the body
> ./call me


*hugs* The sad part is that the body's already practically dead. It astounds me that some people would settle for living only half alive. 



ripley said:


> fuck.
> Sociopath?
> glad you're free now, but that cannot have been without a great cost to you emotionally.


Nobody wants to admit that someone they care for is completely out of his/her mind. It's a loss I've been coping with for a while now.


----------



## Ace Face

infinity paradox said:


> I've been holding it in since yesterday, and I'm definitely less rageful but...
> 
> It's amazing to me how some people use their own emotional wreckage and toxicity to get under the skin of someone vulnerable. ... Even worse when it's disguised as "psychic spirituality." Why does your psychic sense not make you realize that you are hurting someone with ridiculous, unfounded nonsense, and fucking their mind up when they are going through something that is hard enough all on it's own?
> 
> It's a good thing I'm such a nice, forgiving person, and that I feel bad for those who are weak in any way, in this way it'd be someone mentally and emotionally weaker, because my first instinct when someone I love is threatened is to rip the other person's fucking head off...
> 
> oh yeah, it's still there...


I jizzed in my pants. Well said.


----------



## Gilly

Ace Face said:


> I jizzed in my pants. Well said.


Screen shot or it didn't happen.

I'd say to go ahead for my ex, but he'd ask why someone was saying a bunch of useless shit.
He's awesome with words like that. 
Steals my heart. 
./swoon. 

* *




Wish that was sarcasm




And!






'Cause you didn't!


----------



## mimesis

@Donovan

I agree with @infinity paradox , in particular with respect to *poke poke* 

I think I read all your posts with regard to this incident but please ignore any remarks in case of any error in my attempt to reconstrue what happened. 

I understand what you are going through feels incredibly humiliating, but I believe you can make it a humbling experience, by sincerely offering an apology. Stop thinking about your feelings of shame and guilt and thoughts about how others see you, and start thinking about the feelings of someone who believed in you, and ever since must have struggled to keep that image from being shattered. 

Think about it, you think she "lost her bestfriend" because he drank a lil too much and threw her on the floor and then the doorman, and then some of her friends? Or, because she never heard of him ever since, despite being in a more "cognizant" state -if I may borrow your words. Not even just to check how she is doing? That is, other than indirectly asking a friend/roommate of hers accidently met in a bar.

First you got wasted, and now you waste your time loathing yourself, telling yourself you're no good, but much worse, you are wasting a friend. Wasting love. Not because you are no good, but because you think you are no good. And fwiw, I think you're wrong here, not a bad person.

But right now this is not even primarily about saving a friendship with someone you say you love. Do you love her, or do you love how she makes you feel? If you love her, then show her love. Show that you care. At least show respect for how she feels. Respect her by ackowledging you crossed "the line between", if not violated it, and apologize. You don't need to explain, just take the shame of this incident. 

I can imagine you dare not look in her eyes, but how humiliating is that compared to when someone, whether a stranger, a friend or a caregiver crosses that line of basic respect? My impression from several posts, also before this incident is that that line is where Mr. McGee turns into the Hulk. What triggered ptsd, if you will. 

Which reminds me, you said last time you saw the doorman, you thanked him for doing the right thing, but did you by any chance came back to what you had done after, you know, like throwing him up the wall and stuff? Or was patting him on the leg your way of apologizing for your behavior? I would seriously consider a different approach with your friend. 
You may loathe yourself, but that's not the same as taking ownership of your action. In that sense, telling yourself you are no good is a cop out to actually avoid feeling shame. To go to her may seem humiliating, but you can also see it as humbling, without losing your dignity and self respect and neither hers. 

It's not a question of either/or, or zero sum, but applying paradoxical thought to create win/win, reconcile opposites (peacekeeper), or just Love. In that sense I believe it's actually better for yourself as well in the long run. Which is reason why I respond to this, because my aim is that you feel better about yourself. 



Erich Fromm said:


> In contrast to symbiotic union, mature love is union under the condition of preserving one’s integrity, one’s individuality. Love is an active power in man, a power which breaks through the walls which separate man from his fellow men, which unites him with others, love makes him overcome the sense of isolation and separateness, yet it permits him to be himself, to retain his integrity. In love the paradox occurs that two beings become one and yet remain two.
> Reflections on the “Art of Loving” | Healing Relationships


----------



## infinity paradox

Gilly said:


> I would be inclined to say their 'psychic spirituality' is complete and total bullshit?
> 
> 
> 
> Also, ripping people's heads off for harming a loved one.
> Is always cool.
> You can sit by me.


 @Gilly hehe, thanx 



Ace Face said:


> I jizzed in my pants. Well said.


 @Ace Face lol, thanx... **blushing**


----------



## infinity paradox

mimesis said:


> @Donovan
> You may loathe yourself, but that's not the same as taking ownership of your action. In that sense, telling yourself you are no good is a cop out to actually avoid feeling shame. To go to her may seem humiliating, but you can also see it as humbling, without losing your dignity and self respect and neither hers.
> 
> It's not a question of either/or, or zero sum, but applying paradoxical thought to create win/win, reconcile opposites (peacekeeper), or just Love. In that sense I believe it's actually better for yourself as well in the long run. Which is reason why I respond to this, because my aim is that you feel better about yourself.
> 
> Quote Originally Posted by Erich Fromm
> In contrast to symbiotic union, mature love is union under the condition of preserving one’s integrity, one’s individuality. Love is an active power in man, a power which breaks through the walls which separate man from his fellow men, which unites him with others, love makes him overcome the sense of isolation and separateness, yet it permits him to be himself, to retain his integrity. In love the paradox occurs that two beings become one and yet remain two.
> Reflections on the “Art of Loving” | Healing Relationships


 @mimesis ... Your post was so eloquently put that I almost feel bad responding, but I did want to if only to express appreciation...And part of a common universal theme that I seem to return upon frequently  I clicked on the link in quote and have read some today; it is _so_ useful for me as well, so _thanks._


----------



## Rala

I am about to go counterphobic on everybody and about everything. Not sure this is the healthiest attitude (probably not, but it is for me now), but I am tired of everyone not minding their own fucking business. These fools need to get out of my life. Every single one of them. It's been a while since I've felt this hurt.


----------



## Ace Face

I like people with a *touch* of crazy--the enthusiastic type of crazy. Let's be honest though, there's a fine line between enthusiastic fun and blatant stupidity. Doing stupid shit that either has no purpose or is destructive really isn't my cup of tea. If you want to go fuck shit up, be my guest, but I've got better things to do with my time. Some people... lol.


----------



## Gorgon

Your paranoia constricts me*
Your delusions cloud my vision
Your hypersensitivity eats away at my heart*
Your insecurity marrs my perception

I am tired, tired of your bullshit. Look at your own fucking actions for a chance. Where there was once love, there is now hate. I'm hurting, and I know you are as well We talk past each other, trying to crush each other's points rather than understand each other. I hate this feeling. I can feel warm tears trickling down my face.*

I'm sorry.


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> I am about to go counterphobic on everybody and about everything. Not sure this is the healthiest attitude (probably not, but it is for me now), but I am tired of everyone not minding their own fucking business. These fools need to get out of my life. Every single one of them. It's been a while since I've felt this hurt.





Thanatesque said:


> Your paranoia constricts me*
> Your delusions cloud my vision
> Your hypersensitivity eats away at my heart*
> Your insecurity marrs my perception
> 
> I am tired, tired of your bullshit. Look at your own fucking actions for a chance. Where there was once love, there is now hate. I'm hurting, and I know you are as well We talk past each other, trying to crush each other's points rather than understand each other. I hate this feeling. I can feel warm tears trickling down my face.*
> 
> I'm sorry.








* *




"Dust To Gold"

I've got no patience for this
Your philosophies twist
And mess my mind up
I've know truth and its face
Its the cruelest embrace
And you think you taste it

This is what you want
This is what you need
This is what you want
Beg for free

You see
I've walked on that floor
And i've walked it before
You could even crawl it 
I've been through the strangest of mazes
Somewhat self induced hazes
I got through
And now back to you

This is what you want
This is what you need
This is what you want
Beg for free

Because you're safe now
While hearts are cold
You just wait until dust turns to gold

I've got no patience for you
Because you've lied and misconstured
You've led us on


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Dust To Gold"
> 
> I've got no patience for this
> Your philosophies twist
> And mess my mind up
> I've know truth and its face
> Its the cruelest embrace
> And you think you taste it
> 
> This is what you want
> This is what you need
> This is what you want
> Beg for free
> 
> You see
> I've walked on that floor
> And i've walked it before
> You could even crawl it
> I've been through the strangest of mazes
> Somewhat self induced hazes
> I got through
> And now back to you
> 
> This is what you want
> This is what you need
> This is what you want
> Beg for free
> 
> Because you're safe now
> While hearts are cold
> You just wait until dust turns to gold
> 
> I've got no patience for you
> Because you've lied and misconstured
> You've led us on


Usually, in such moments, I first listen to really angry music, then after I calm down I listen to such songs. I am done with the angry songs. And how is it that this guy's voice makes his songs sadder than they should sound. It adds a lot to it.


----------



## Animal

Lol @_Rala_ I posted a different song at first then changed my mind and you were on top of that so fast.. dammmnit,

Anyway, fuck people being in others' business. I'm very open about some things, but when people start meddling in my shit, my temper is tangible. I don't really care what they know about me, or what they say behind my back, but when they start trying to get in my way and control my business, shit gets real.


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> Usually, in such moments, I first listen to really angry music, then after I calm down I listen to such songs. I am done with the angry songs. And how is it that this guy's voice makes his songs sadder than they should sound. It adds a lot to it.


Ah, damn, I should have left the other one up then.. here it is <3 







And here's a few more for posterity..


----------



## Animal

@_infinity paradox_







This is an imaginary love letter to you from an imaginary ex. I can just picture someone singing this about you, covering it and staring at you on stage, or belting it out from their bedroom while crying. At least that's what would have happened to me if you had broken my heart.


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Ah, damn, I should have left the other one up then.. here it is <3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's a few more for posterity..


Hehe, but I was fast and already saw it


----------



## Gorgon

@Animal thank you for the song. The lyrics were spot on. I've never heard of that band, now I have a new band to obsess over! I love his voice.

I think my secondary instinct is pretty strong, in all its beauty and monstrosity. Today, my second instinct reared its ugly head. I said some nasty and hurtful comments to my (long-distanced) boyfriend over text today (which I think is worse). I mercilessly snipped his heartstrings, and for that, I feel deep sorrow. I haven't talked to him yet since I don't want speak with him while I don't have all my faculties. Having the power to hurt someone like that is scary. I don't ever want to exercise that type of power over him ever again.


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Lol @_Rala_ I posted a different song at first then changed my mind and you were on top of that so fast.. dammmnit,
> 
> Anyway, fuck people being in others' business. I'm very open about some things, but when people start meddling in my shit, my temper is tangible. I don't really care what they know about me, or what they say behind my back, but when they start trying to get in my way and control my business, shit gets real.


I don't care either. It only hurts and gets me incredibly mad and deeply hurt when it's people that I consider close to me that do it. Then I can't help but blow up and react to it straightforward. Then I am being door-slammed. And that hurts even more. I was thinking I should probably just do that too, but I don't just say "fuck you" and kick people out of my life. Instead, I do say "fuck you" but in a "fuck you, here is how you are a fucking asshole to me" and then it's up to them to decide whether they stay and never do that again or fuck off. I have had so many people shut me out like that out of nowhere that I lost count. I am probably not the easiest person to get along with, but I am the kind of person who respects and accepts someone for the way they fucking are and I expect that in return. That's why I have no fucking friends and I always blamed myself for this, but I'd rather spend my time on social media and complain and connecting with people I resonate with for a few hours than having to deal with all this hypocrisy. And at the end of the day, I am aware these people are not awful. They have insecurities and fears just like me. But I need to feel safe if I am to open my heart to someone and let them in, if I am to be vulnerable and show them my weaknesses and fears without them projecting their own on me and being triggered.


I need a tour around the galaxy.


----------



## Gilly

* *












"I ain't never heard of a man gettin' killed, when he didn't get just what was comin' to him." 

./sigh

This song exemplifies everything I feel when I start getting disappointed with how people act.
All the selfish people. I hate how much people look out for themselves.
Rule - You always cut yourself before you cut someone else.
If you don't, I'm more than happy to make sure you bleed with the rest of us.

Listening to the song again, I'm not sure I could find one that suits a type 6w7 ENFJ more...


----------



## Rala

The sight of your big muscles won't scare me if you do not feel half of the hate I feel in my heart when you hurt someone I love. I WILL destroy you. Or die trying.


----------



## Kurt Wagner

kinky, I love it


----------



## Chesire Tower

It really infuriates me when people are intentionally mean and bully people who are not accustomed to defending themselves. These bullies seem to specifically go after those types of people rather than take on the ones who won't suffer idiots gladly and will fight back.

I am extremely sensitive and understand what it's like to feel abused and humiliated and while my default position is to just avoid those kinds of people; I can't allow it when I see people getting their feelings badly hurt by them; when I can see how clearly the cowards that these people really are and wouldn't recognize logic if they fell over it.

I think maybe it's because due to my late mother's brainwashing - thanks for that mom *rolleyes*; I used to react like that myself until I wised up and it pains when I see people almost getting emotionally destroyed by their abusive bullshit.


----------



## 6007

His friends were telling him he was stupid for getting in a monogamous relationship with someone faraway.
The thing they have no idea about is that for him I am a humongous adventure.
He's never met anyone even a quarter as weird as me, and that's what he likes: creative weird girls. 
Thank fuck too because the wolf howling in bed is pretty odd and I've never done that before. And also apparently speaking some weird jibber jabber as well. apparently he does something to my vocalizations that I don't understand.


----------



## 6007

Every other day it seems I see a post on Facebook talking about how someone I know is Ambiverted, because they read some article on the Internet. 
Im like: technically EVERYONE is Ambiverted. It is NOT a spectrum. It's functions. Everyone has four. Two are extraverted. Two are introvered. That means you are technically using extraverted and introverted functions, it's just that you'll have a fucking preference of one over the other, and that shit is non negotiable. Technically all sensors use intuition, and all intuitives use sensing. So when an intuitive gets all weirded out because a sensor seems to be behaving in intuitive ways, that is fucking why. They use intuition too, just not as a dominant preference. none of the functions are better or worse than the others, we all use all the same fucking ones just in different ways (subjective or objective) and orders of preference. Jesus. Fucking. Christ.

*i notice the people who are like I AM AMBIVERTED tend to use Fe, but my sample size is small, maybe like five people max.

*feeling vs thinking seems to really trip people up as well. I'm like "being a thinker does not mean you don't have feelings... Please read a book. Please. I'll buy it for you."


----------



## 6007

Up until July of this year I was involved with a guy I call El Diablo, an infj 3w4. 
I was basically his ideal woman sexually and he was almost my ideal guy sexually--almost. 
It was going to take a really special guy to get me to give him up. Unfortunately, he himself made me give him up after a really bad weekend together. And that weekend I met the guy I am seeing now. 
They have uncanny similarities. 
Physically, they look very little alike except that they're both short and slender and they have similar body modifications. My infj has a distinct thug vibe that isn't present in Diablo but there are similarities. 
They use a lot of the same language, and most people use very predictable words that are "them." No two people truly sound the same In their word choices. So sometimes when I'm texting with my INF J, it weirds me out to see all of the freaky similar ways of expressing ideas and emotions. Same exact phrasing. Same exact word choices. What the fuck.
Even the nickname "Diablo" suits my INF J perfectly... Better, even. 
It's like I'm dating a 2.0 version of el Diablo. Like, future Diablo. 
Or emotionally available and in love with me Diablo. 
Hm


----------



## Animal

ripley said:


> His friends were telling him he was stupid for getting in a monogamous relationship with someone faraway.
> The thing they have no idea about is that for him I am a humongous adventure.
> He's never met anyone even a quarter as weird as me, and that's what he likes: creative weird girls.
> Thank fuck too because the wolf howling in bed is pretty odd and I've never done that before. And also apparently speaking some weird jibber jabber as well. apparently he does something to my vocalizations that I don't understand.


Any time I've known a guy who hangs with a group of drunk monkeys, they always tell him not to commit. Even when I was playing rock shows and the whole clan of monkeys would come to the show drooling, the minute one had a chance with me or my band mates or other women..every monkey is huffing "don't get tied down, don't get whipped, just bang that fine ass and come have another beer.."

Any time a guy dared to raise that issue with me, I told him he's free to leave and suck his friends' privates instead. That clearly, he's already committed to them.


----------



## Tetsuo Shima

If Siri can't take my Spotify playlist off of shuffle, then you know what? She's a bitch.


----------



## cinnabun

Finding out from your male work bestie that all he and all the other dudes we work with where discussing my level of hotness when I first joined is just: ride::blushed:.

Part of me is like wtf, I feel kind of objectified...but another part of me is weirdly proud cause I passed the test XD.

I'm just trying to figure out who said what:tongue:.


----------



## Golden Rose

Animal said:


> Any time a guy dared to raise that issue with me, I told him he's free to leave and suck his friends' privates instead. That clearly, he's already committed to them.


Hah.

I never personally understood the logic behind people telling a friend not to commit. 
Unless they're in the backseat of the relationship, it doesn't affect them in the slightest.

I can understand having less time to hang out or the impossibility of being 'lads' together but if that's all that ties people together... well then. Maybe I simply don't understand that kind of vision. I like seeing solid romantic commitments, they're a beautiful thing. Speed, choices and any other notions in between are purely subjective anyway. Speaking of which, I'm sure your prediction is right.


----------



## Kurt Wagner

Animal said:


> I told him he's free to leave and suck his friends' privates instead.


Woohoo gay sex \o/


----------



## 6007

Animal said:


> Any time I've known a guy who hangs with a group of drunk monkeys, they always tell him not to commit. Even when I was playing rock shows and the whole clan of monkeys would come to the show drooling, the minute one had a chance with me or my band mates or other women..every monkey is huffing "don't get tied down, don't get whipped, just bang that fine ass and come have another beer.."
> 
> Any time a guy dared to raise that issue with me, I told him he's free to leave and suck his friends' privates instead. That clearly, he's already committed to them.


People are absurd.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Luke Skywalker said:


> Woohoo gay sex \o/


yes


----------



## 6007

It's not that I hate my life, it's just that I'd like to take a match to it, destroy it, and disappear forever. 
When I die I hope I cease to exist in any way at all, forever. 
I don't want to be at all anymore. Or ever again.


----------



## Donovan

@_Gilly_ @_Animal_ @_infinity paradox_ @mimesis 

and to everyone else with a half a day to kill by reading... 
first off, thanks. i really appreciate this, cause i needed to purge and write. and Gilly was right, knowing that writing with the potential for it to be heard is different than just thinking it, or trying to think it that is--writing always puts more structure for the thought, so it can actually be just that: a message to oneself, that is then resorbed and heard in a way that doesn't happen for me otherwise. 

this will seem disjointed. it was eaten at least twice by a faulty internet connection, and i've been writing it and leaving it, and coming back to it... 


* *




actually memsis, as far as whether i loved her or whether i just "loved how she made me feel", i'd have to say that i never really felt all that great. neither of us was brave enough to be upfront, so we just communicated by what was not said, but could be seen in both our actions (... i do love her). 
it's like i could see potential for both of us having this wonderful time traveling, growing; healing even... that's not how reality works though. you don't heal through others. 
every fucked appendage trying to grow its way out of you has to be chopped. you can have the scars and be happy, remnants of what you made reality into for yourself, but you have to reclaim your form and wipe that blood.

i saw her roommate at a bar. he was very drunk, acting very odd. he sat down next to me, kept taking deep breaths like he wanted to say something, and then he'd stop. i got frustrated and asked him what the hell was wrong. he kept shaking his head. 
i got him a glass of water, a second, a third. he stands and begins to walk out and then turns and says where he's going, but not to follow immediately, to wait a some time and then come. i do. 
she's there, we make eye contact but after everything i just look away and go inside... it hurts, but i can't just go up and invade her space when i know, from her lack of contact, that she does not want that. i pass her multiple times, and on my last beer i accidentally, nearly, stumble on her. she looks at me expectantly, but i was... scared i guess, so my face was probably a sneer of sorts, and i walk away with force. 
i over hear her name being called on the intercom again and again; she's always been a magnificent karaoke fiend... ...
i'm drunk and find her number in my log history (deleted her number, for her sake)... tell her she missed her song. the friend texts me, frantic and tells me to stop, that i'm just making things worse and i'm putting him into a bad position. 
i don't know what to say so i say what exactly what i feel: that i love and miss her, and i hope she's doing well... i was crushed, couldn't sleep and when i woke all i could think of was everything, and i did only what i've learned to do: become angry when emotion overwhelms me. 

i had had enough. _so much fucking pain_... i text him and tell him to calm the hell down, that he's being ridiculous... then i text her and say to leave him along, that he's just trying to help and that if she wanted things to be any different all she has to do is actually answer when i ask if she wants to never see me again. that she is, after all, an adult... 
i tossed my phone on the floor and went to work. i came back to quite a few messages, his landing in the middle, saying that he tried to help but it's too far gone. 
her's: "you're the worst thing that's ever happened to me", "i literally hate you now", "i never want to see nor speak to you again", "you'll never understand the level you on which you hurt me", in so many words "leave my roommate out of this, he's fucking sick of it too"

(peace and knowledge)

i wait for a bit, then tell her that i've been using her as a foundation to work through my issues of never being able to defend "all my girls"/important women in my life... that it wasn't fair to her. that all i've done is hurt her again and again, and that it was killing me. i even told her about objectively thinking through the ramifications of suicide--not because i feel a compulsion like when i was younger, but because everything seems so grey now--and not to make her feel badly, but just so she would know that i could be affected by her so deeply, that she was not just some random person in my life, that i loved her so much... 
she basically told me to get help (hahahaha!), that she didn't want me to do that, i told her i couldn't for the same reason i cannot ever give up on anything, because i just cannot ever give up on anything--i just can't, i don't have it in me. said she'd leave a place now if she ever saw me in the future. told her i'd be the one to leave, out of respect for her night. 
told her she's a beautiful person; that i wish we didn't meet for only the solution to my problems and for her to learn to avoid shitty people; that i wish we had and would meet under different circumstances; and that i'd wish her luck but it wasn't necessary, as she was always an impressive person... called her by the name i gave her (Silver Wolfe, hahaha; a long, happily ridiculous story) and told her goodbye. 

i was supposed to go and talk to her girlfriend, who's also gone through some shit, the other day, but i messaged her that out of respect for 'ol Wolfe i'd just stay away from everyone she knows. she understood, said "hang in there babe". i love her for that, in my own way, but i know that with as much as we all get into that it would end up being a bad idea. i might say something she doesn't know, which would only make Wolfe's situation harder than it is. plus, one night after me and my very, very good but lost friend fought, her girlfriend asked if she could do something "weird" and leaned over and kissed me, and i kissed back, and it went on longer than it should have, equipped with light biting of full lower lips... and stopped right before she walked out. (i told her i really needed to speak to her about something, and then told her girlfriend that i was going to let her know so she'd better be the one to speak first, as Silver has had problems with such before... i know that we're all in bad spots, and that her girlfriend and i are both the type to want human touch and connectivity, and all we do when we're together is drink and smoke, so... just a bad idea). 


we could have had a good thing. she told me once after we had tried dating for a month that she only liked women, but i could feel her insecurity and discomfort around me, and she could feel mine as well, and we squabbled and she moved it to friends so we could last (she told me that she just wanted us to be "two hoodrats again, who everyone else was jealous of" [haha... 'hoodrats'])... 
she'd get drunk and tell me that she knew we'd always be friends, and didn't know about anything else, but that maybe we'd be something more one day, that she just doesn't know anything right now, and she hoped that was okay--and i've never seen her smile so before. 
or, again, drunk and upon hearing a chorus where a man speaks of his unsaid love for his longtime friend, she grabbed my arm and said, "one day, this'll be you singing to me" *raised eyebrows in questioning*... hold my hand or find reasons to touch me gently... get jealous when she found out that a girl at work was grabbing on me, and would ask, "oh, was it that bitch 'J'? i fucking hate her", to hear me say that it was someone else, and then for her to kind of stare at the ground and be like, "... oh"...
or play fight so roughly that people we'd hang with would widen their eyes and back themselves into a corner to avoid us, or all the beer we were spitting on each other, standing toe-to-toe, in full view of strangers (hahaha, jesus, we were always such a fun mess together). 

but we never spoke about anything. we tried, but each reached into conscious emptiness when sober, met a wall, and only had feelings as fuel to speak when our minds were oiled enough to allow something resembling a reflection of soul, to edge past and escape our lips... we should have spoken more. we should have tried. as strong as each of us were, we couldn't do that. 
we could have been friends if we could ever get on the same page. and then we could have done what we planned: getting the fuck out of this horrendous state and just learning about ourselves, about life. 
i got her an astrology reading for her birthday once. turns out our natal charts are nearly identical (which would make sense, as she's a month older)... 

... my ex came over. also going through a hard time. lost her job cause her car broke down, didn't eat the day before or the day she came over because she was so broke due to legal matters. might start cocktail-waitressing at a strip-club to make money (not nice, but at least it's the nic_est_ one around, with as many bouncers as their are dancers). couldn't afford her "drug counseling" (caught for distribution, not for having a problem other than making money; legal systems? tsk tsk), so instead was given the option to take 90 AA classes in 90 days, which would be hilarious, as she doesn't have a problem with alcohol, if she didn't feel so guilty about hearing the atrocities in other's life and having to masquerade as if she went through the same thing... 
i had made about three pounds of spaghetti prior, so we just ate and talked about life. probably the only person i've ever been able to speak frankly to about my shame to (a 2, i don't know what it is, but they always lift me up. i fucking love some of them to death). 
while it took me the better part of 30 minutes to describe a paragraph of my feelings, she summed them up succinctly in about seven seconds, and made them make more sense for myself than i ever could (fucking dream-weaving magicians, hahaha). 
she's under the impression that all i have to do is wait, that she's obviously emotionally volatile right now, and that she obviously loves me... but then again, the speaker is a 2, and while some things may sound nice, and while sometimes it's even a good thing to lie to someone, it isn't true. 
feelings may rise and fall and people always (usually) reach their equilibrium again, but scars are scars and no amount of internal balance overlooks "the crazy" in another person; especially if they think you actually are unhinged... 

i've been selfish with her, and i couldn't even see it until now. i wanted what i wanted and it was her, but i couldn't step on her toes and never wanted to, so i tried being her friend--each to be the un-discussed friend in the other's life--and it blew up, and i got hurt and so did she, and when i get hurt i fight tooth and nail as if everyone is my enemy and there is only me to back me up... it's like waking up from a nightmare where you believe your best-friend is a demon of sorts, and you hack and slash, you gnash your teeth with ferocious glee and darkly smile your wrath... but then you wake up and the person you cared so much about is bleeding out her breath, wearing a look of such hurt betrayal that you summon all that darkness and go to town on yourself because there _was_ a demon, a monster, who was responsible, and you want to kill _that one now_ because it hurt that poor girl. it hurt you. it was you... 

so, i'll do the one left to do: i'm going to let her be. even if it hurts her. and if it doesn't, then great, and i mean that, because i can't stand the idea that she's just hurt and too proud to say anything... that thought is agony all its own...





* *




you have to be present, and everything else seems like a fairy tale. a story in everyone's mind that seems true, because, it's a story that is in everyone's mind... and it's only there cause we all yearn for completion and we're all seeking that hero's and heroine's journey that can play out fantastically in the recesses of a person, because those recesses aren't confined by reality, and that's where the journey is had. 
fantasy can still have its hold and its place, but it needs a counterpart, something to be met by what is pouring out. 



i actually had a dream about nine years ago, that i think prefaced this. i've written about it here before: 

meeting a young girl as a young boy, both pale and dark haired. the picture is nothingness, blackness, but in the center are two columns, bridged at the top. 
i'd leave reality as others knew it, and we'd meet on an ornate merry-go-round; filigreed and etched with symbols, made of permanence. heavy and solid, never ordinary, even at a glance. 
the darkness was there, the blackness of something that stretches past, going on and on lazily--because why not? it's never ending and has no destination, no beginning, no time to think of or worry of, and so it just stretched; it strolled contently. 
but the circle had light, gentle and low and dim, dark in its own golden way, and it spread enough of that timelessness aside so that we could meet. so that we could be in each others' presence; so that each of us could feel whole. and we understood one another, deeply, and _we_ were timeless. more so even than that which preceded us; that benignly, but wholly disinterested, darkness. 

i'd live out in "reality" while dreaming, and always waited to come back to see her, nervous that i'd miss a chance meeting. no one else knew she even existed. it hurt her.
she was alone, sleeping, barely even existing herself when the light went out. 
but one day she wasn't there. loss and fear and panic struck, but so did something ferocious; something strong, centering, and only pouring out in order to reclaim. 
i traveled on a wooden ship, large and sturdy. companions were present: someone himself large and seemingly angry, who kept others at bay by his presence alone (but would feed the small animal who made its home in his coat pocket, when others couldn't see), and someone on the guileful side of things. a person who'd rather dance around a fight, and would rather back up laughingly into a corner till his back hits, and then quickly bypass all limitations and barriers in doing what was now necessary. each, now, seem to be opposites of each other: one quick to impose, the other willing to ride the perimeter of conflict; one willing to fight but not willing to hurt, the other calmly against such an action, but practical and cutting in such a way that made him, potentially, far worse than the former. 
others were there, and their presence gave emotion, but they never stepped forward in the same way as these two... 
the bow of the ship was an opera mask wrought in feminine style, half white, half black, and we all traveled under darkly lit grey skies, over chopped-slate water, towards a floating metal cube that hovered in the distance, beneath the waves. 

that's where she was, that's where she was being kept, that's where she was taken to.


 



* *




i'm not sure what exactly what any of that means, but it does align. i was on the ship too, but i was separate from the nameless throng, as well as the two distinctly different men, but they are obviously a part of my personality; tools made to help me through life... 

i tried quitting one of my jobs today. got tired of it, and it's unnecessary in my life. showed up an hour and a half late, ignored all the calls and texts, and really took my time getting there. 
walked into my bosses office and told him this would be the last day i showed up, that i had too much going on (observation, moving, working), and that i needed at least one stable day off a week. he asked if he could keep me in the system, and just to ask whenever i wanted to work... why do people _constantly_ give me chances? i feel like it stops me from growing. look at Silver--she stripped me of them (or, honestly i did that myself), but i feel like there's been a lot of piecing together because of it. 
even my other boss, who's hellacious and will scream "fuck you!" from behind the line--who will have us set up loft-parties for big local companies/radio stations, but keep all information about the menu and food a secret right up until everyone is about to flood in--doesn't fire me for fighting back against him, when he's fired others for apparently less (i actually think he kind of likes it, haha, the weirdo). 
or all the people at work who try to converse with me only to get a grunt in response and my walking away while they're still talking, or to have me bitch them out for standing where they shouldn't while things are hectic ("are you blind or just fucking stupid...? get the _fuck_ out of the way. no one cares about your 'little conversation', you fucking idiot! please, continue to stand here, in everyone's way, because you're soooo important. no, no , no, please, stand right here so none of us can do our fucking jobs. _please_"--it's like they like the fact that i'm an asshole, but only because they can also see me be nice and try to turn around and help them right after blasting them...? i really don't know. i don't know why they like me, or why anyone does, or why i'm constantly given chance after chance... just confused as to what i'm not seeing, but all of this ^ is making me think about that too. i'm not really nice, at all, except to that guy i spoke about earlier in my posts, and to all the people who have a much harder time/job at work than myself... unless they're also assholes like myself, then we're either friends or "frenemies"... lol, that word :]).
a woman at work actually refers to me--_endearingly so_ (imagine that) as "serial killer"--but it's, again, i guess a term of endearment to her...? she also, upon first meeting her, when we were very busy and were discussing a game plan said, "okay cool! lets do that, but after, we should all smell each other's armpits... okay, break!", burst out laughing and then skipped off like a little slightly crazed, forest sprite. 

so, i'm just coasting about right now. letting myself be depressed, which i never actually do. i always just make myself worse by not allowing time for stuff like this--writing it all out and processing it--and it just darkens in the end because of my non-looking.
just listening to "happy in my own sadness"-type of music, like... laugh if you must, mazzy star, billie holiday, amie mann, catpower--you know, all the good emotional stuff. 
going to quit smoking, drinking so much (which i don't actually enjoy, except when this bar i go has this middle-aged woman singing, and these men, who have to be in their 70's, playing the cello and piano to 1930's film noir-esque, prohibition, speak-easy-ish type of music), and just take my off days to settle out my life instead of just trudging through it all. 

looked up PTSD meetup groups in the area, thinking it'd cool and a good idea to go and speak, and to then help others with it all (cause that's how i heal apparently--it lets me know that i am good, which brings my emotions to the surface, which is where i need to heal), but there weren't any, so i'm settling for this very odd (right up my alley) group meditation-thing downtown...
start working out again, as being so out of shape and smoking soooo much has caused my posture to lessen, which doesn't matter aside from the fact that i can feel the edge or a poorly healed rib beginning to poke out from the rest... take time for myself basically, which i haven't actually been doing... 
knock out my observation, take my ACTs (which i've never done--took an equivalent test at the school that offers the degree) for this program... and just try to get better all in all. 
maybe look for a different main job, as the one i have now kind of breeds and feeds into the side of my personality that is already fortified and has already claimed its own spot in my mind, but i don't exactly need it anymore. i can use it later, and most likely will, but i'd like to be at a place that allows me to nice or even gentle, without sacrificing myself in the process. 
maybe even meet some of that 'nameless throng' on the traveling boat, and find out more of myself... 

maybe, when i feel like myself and know that i won't cause any grief for that amazing person, i'll contact her. or send her an email that allows me to put my thoughts and emotions into a perspective we can both understand. at least so she knows that my actions were not indicative of her worth as a person, nor were they a sign of how i feel towards her. and those two things are things that are on my mind the most. 
they can't be, which is the hardest part: in order to help you have to forget, or some other pseudo-spiritual bs.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

I need to work on my damn patience. And to not pressure people to do things for my own pleasure.


----------



## 6007

I have kicked so much ass, I want to James Brown my entire day--jump back and kiss myself.
Sometimes I am so amazing I can't begin to understand HOW it happened.

Other times, I can be a whiny little fuck. But once in a while, I impress myself.

It's all about balance.


----------



## 6007

I miss my clingy little monkey.
I can't wait to see him.


----------



## 6007

While a lot of things have gone wrong this year, overall, I've been extraordinarily blessed--as I've always been.
Life has been kind to me, and I am so glad of it too.


----------



## mimesis

Gilly said:


> Yup. All how it is, no excess.
> 
> 
> Zomg. You're a Dutch one. Go figure.


Um yep. lol

http://stuffdutchpeoplelike.com/2011/05/28/dutch-directness/


----------



## Gilly

@mimesis - You guys got a bad rep from the Belgians, but they're kinda stick in the muds.


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Lately iv been torn at a sorts shit on my mind and he'll i don't even know yknow


----------



## cinnabun

I'm always so tired. Like, no matter how much sleep I get, I'm constantly exhausted. Surely this can't be normal?


----------



## Vermillion

Rinnie said:


> I'm always so tired. Like, no matter how much sleep I get, I'm constantly exhausted. Surely this can't be normal?


Is that a recent phenomenon? Perhaps there's something that's really stressing you out and leaving no time for any sort of mental relaxation?

Meanwhile, I've been having the opposite nightmare... somehow alive and kicking despite losing tons of sleep in the last two weeks. Procrastination and stupid nocturnal roommates ftw!!! This is gonna bite me in the ass soon lol. I can feel it coming.


----------



## 6007

Ace Face said:


> I missed some vital wording my first go-round, and it's way past the point of editing x) Let's try this again. Jealous bitches tend to try to make the people they're jealous of... well, jealous, lol. I don't get it. It's the ultimate projection of insecurity at its worst... or finest... however you choose to look at it
> 
> It sounds to me like Mr. Diablo feels pretty insignificant. "I've got a new bitch... just saying. I don't care about her though. I still care about you so I'm going to ramble on like an idiot in hopes that you'll want me over this new, better-looking guy you have."
> 
> And just think what an ego boost it would be if you ended up being lured back into him with all of this sweet talk, leaving Mr. Super Handsome in the dust. Why, that might make el Diablo feel better about himself for a day or two... that is, until he realizes that he's still really insecure at the end of the day and needs the attention of other people to make him feel better.


im not sure Diablo is aware infj is more handsome, in truth Diablo is a triumph against ugliness... He has a beautiful smile, and lovely golden skin. His hair is utterly fantastic. But... He is also sort of ugly. Jolie laide, ugly pretty. Whereas infj is so good looking that straight men can tell. He's short as fuck, but fine. So fine. Was the leader of a gang of only good looking guys (no shit, and that is the lamest thing I've ever typed and I teased him about it but middle schoolers are retarded). 

I think you bring up interesting points but I don't know what happened. Diablo and I went from being thick as thieves and now I can't read him. He seems more tacky and lame than I realized. One of the last times we spoke he was proud of himself for rejecting the advances of a drunk and insistent woman because he didn't fancy her--she was being really assertive/aggressive too--saying "ordinarily I'd say yes because at least one of us would be having a good time..." But dude when I met him the first few months he seemed really picky and selective. Partially because kinky, partially because raised Catholic and afraid of std. 

I dont want him in my mental space so I've decided to attempt to let it go; it niggles at me because I can't figure it out. I always want answers. I know he's an enneagram 3. Likely 3w4. There's a shellac to him that I only notice in 3, this shiny fake coating that I don't like yet often find attractive initially. But since it doesn't run deep it bores me in the end. he cares about how things look. which is also funny, how he acted so distant towards me in groups... I'm literally the most alpha woman he can find. He literally couldn't do better unless he bagged someone famous. I have a tendency to under exaggerate so as to fall more likely approximate to the exact truth, but I am the best he has and will ever do; I know it. And I suspect he does also.


----------



## 6007

Rinnie said:


> I'm always so tired. Like, no matter how much sleep I get, I'm constantly exhausted. Surely this can't be normal?


I I don't know where you live, but is the area you're living in getting less sunlight due to winter? If so, perhaps a lack of sunlight is part of the problem. As it's also the end of the year there's a lot of energy going on, a lot of stress. Your diet could also be a factor, if you're not getting enough variety in your diet that could run you down 

I was run down before I started walking in the sun daily and also taking ashwaghanda tincture (it's a mix with a few other herbs) and adding much more vegetables to my diet. Slowly it started to help. Like in a week or two but I'm keeping up the habits. Soaking in Epsom salts helps too, if you have a tub.


----------



## 6007

My perc crushes are @mimesis and @Flatlander. 
Sorry not sorry.


----------



## Gorgon

I've always felt demonic ever since I was young. I always related to demons, werewolves, and vampires (not the pretty tortured soul ones, but the grotesque Nosferatu). I feel my emotions intensely, especially my negative ones. Whenever I'm in a negative headspace, I want to consume and destroy everything around me. I've never denied my feelings, the good, bad, and the ugly. Denial only breeds resentment and fear. I love my darkness. There's something empowering about it. Darkness is like a void, a nothingness where chaos reigns. It's unfettered by laws, restriction, and morality. It's passion taken to its logical extreme.

In order to be integrated beings, we must acknowledge the Apollonian and the demonic. They're not in opposition, rather they're in a constant dialectic with each other.


----------



## 6007

Sometimes simply taking a shower is enough to Make me feel like a successful adult


----------



## Jabbytoe69

*Meowwww*

Meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow


----------



## Jabbytoe69

It's balls being constantlyyy tired I'm the exact same


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> I'm always so tired. Like, no matter how much sleep I get, I'm constantly exhausted. Surely this can't be normal?


It sucks not being able to sleep but try getting a routine and hopefully it works


----------



## Rala

So
I gotta be careful not to lose myself between my own thoughts. But wait. If they say one is not their thoughts, then who am I? I will never know while sitting here in my own head, watching all these little fucks arguing and fighting. They're funny. I could just ask them. But can I trust them? I know full well I cannot. Everyone knows better than to trust their own thoughts. They are untrained. Wild. Cruel. Ugh you better fucking behave because I created you, and I will destroy you, bitches.

Funny that above speaking were just my thoughts. We are in control and you can only observe.

XD
No


----------



## Blue Soul

Rala said:


> So
> I gotta be careful not to lose myself between my own thoughts. But wait. If they say one is not their thoughts, then who am I? I will never know while sitting here in my own head, watching all these little fucks arguing and fighting. They're funny. I could just ask them. But can I trust them? I know full well I cannot. Everyone knows better than to trust their own thoughts. They are untrained. Wild. Cruel. Ugh you better fucking behave because I created you, and I will destroy you, bitches.
> 
> Funny that above speaking were just my thoughts. We are in control and you can only observe.
> 
> XD
> No


It's a good thing to be able to laugh at yourself; all of yourselves.


----------



## Rala

Blue Soul said:


> Rala said:
> 
> 
> 
> So
> I gotta be careful not to lose myself between my own thoughts. But wait. If they say one is not their thoughts, then who am I? I will never know while sitting here in my own head, watching all these little fucks arguing and fighting. They're funny. I could just ask them. But can I trust them? I know full well I cannot. Everyone knows better than to trust their own thoughts. They are untrained. Wild. Cruel. Ugh you better fucking behave because I created you, and I will destroy you, bitches.
> 
> Funny that above speaking were just my thoughts. We are in control and you can only observe.
> 
> XD
> No
> 
> 
> 
> It's a good thing to be able to laugh at yourself; all of yourselves.
Click to expand...

Especially when you're bored. I am the real mastermind here. Admit :d


----------



## Blue Soul

Rala said:


> Especially when you're bored. I am the real mastermind here. Admit :d


Mastermindfuck maybe. :>

I'm bored too! Wanna be bored together?


----------



## Rala

Blue Soul said:


> Rala said:
> 
> 
> 
> Especially when you're bored. I am the real mastermind here. Admit :d
> 
> 
> 
> Mastermindfuck maybe. :>
> 
> I'm bored too! Wanna be bored together?
Click to expand...

Always.

But then it would be impossible to be bored together. I know this.


----------



## cinnabun

Night Huntress said:


> Is that a recent phenomenon? Perhaps there's something that's really stressing you out and leaving no time for any sort of mental relaxation?


I've been like this ever since I can remember :/. A few years ago when I was at the hospital, my blood tests revealed I was anaemic. I was prescribed iron tablets to help me, and it did a little, but I was only to take them for so long. I think it's came back again since I don't get enough iron in my diet, but I think there's something more to it as well. Perhaps my anxiety, I'm not sure.



ripley said:


> I I don't know where you live, but is the area you're living in getting less sunlight due to winter?


This just made me lol. I live in Scotland, which is like...basically Antarctica xD.



ripley said:


> As it's also the end of the year there's a lot of energy going on, a lot of stress. Your diet could also be a factor, if you're not getting enough variety in your diet that could run you down


True. I work in a store, and it's hectic right now with all the Christmas shoppers, and it's only going to get worse. Today was probably the worst day so far. Also, since I'm doing a lot of hours, I come home that tired that I don't really have the time or energy to make meals for myself anymore :/. Like...I didn't even think of that as part of a reason, but yeah...you're right. I didn't know about lack of sunlight affecting you though, that's interesting.



ripley said:


> I was run down before I started walking in the sun daily and also taking ashwaghanda tincture (it's a mix with a few other herbs) and adding much more vegetables to my diet. Slowly it started to help. Like in a week or two but I'm keeping up the habits. Soaking in Epsom salts helps too, if you have a tub.


Walking in the sunlight might be hard for me LOL. But I'll for sure try to add in more veg into my diet, and have a look at that herb mixture. Sadly I don't have a tub, but this is all really helpful advice, thank you!



Jabbytoe69 said:


> It sucks not being able to sleep but try getting a routine and hopefully it works


I've actually been falling asleep a lot earlier than I used to, so that's for sure a good thing.

Also your name...lol, wut? XD.

And hi newbie!


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> I've been like this ever since I can remember :/. A few years ago when I was at the hospital, my blood tests revealed I was anaemic. I was prescribed iron tablets to help me, and it did a little, but I was only to take them for so long. I think it's came back again since I don't get enough iron in my diet, but I think there's something more to it as well. Perhaps my anxiety, I'm not sure.
> 
> 
> 
> This just made me lol. I live in Scotland, which is like...basically Antarctica xD.
> 
> 
> 
> True. I work in a store, and it's hectic right now with all the Christmas shoppers, and it's only going to get worse. Today was probably the worst day so far. Also, since I'm doing a lot of hours, I come home that tired that I don't really have the time or energy to make meals for myself anymore :/. Like...I didn't even think of that as part of a reason, but yeah...you're right. I didn't know about lack of sunlight affecting you though, that's interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Walking in the sunlight might be hard for me LOL. But I'll for sure try to add in more veg into my diet, and have a look at that herb mixture. Sadly I don't have a tub, but this is all really helpful advice, thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually been falling asleep a lot earlier than I used to, so that's for sure a good thing.
> 
> Also your name...lol, wut? XD.
> 
> And hi newbie!


Then clearly you are possessed LET SATAN TAKE YOU and my name is a name of God's and kings bow FOOL


----------



## Animal

Eclipsed said:


> @_Animal_ I think that's the most beautiful post I've seen from you thus far, which is saying a lot, because all of them are. You are definitely loved. :hugs:


*huggggs* :,)


----------



## cinnabun

Completed my first therapy session today.

It went well:kitteh:.


----------



## cinnabun

Jabbytoe69 said:


> Well I thank thee I hope you are just as weird or Ima crey


Well, so I've been told XD.


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> Well, so I've been told XD.


Say whaaaaat I'm hella confused haha


----------



## 6007

I know I told him I loved him 
but I'm not sure he really heard me. 

he doesn't trust love, and doesn't want mine. 

How funny; I'm forever loving those who cannot and will not love me in return. But I don't focus on them over those who reciprocate. This is an abundant universe and there's a huge one inside me too. I'm full of love, no matter how I am in human terms, when I'm angry or petty or silly. I can afford to love others; it doesn't deplete me. 

What is challenging for many of us is accepting love, recognizing it and valuing it...
so I don't blame anyone for doubting mine. 
Love can be such a transient emotion and it can taste of obligation. 
No matter how many times I insist mine is free and long lasting, others can't believe in it. it isn't something tangible. It's like belief in God. It's just a feeling. There isn't any proof. 

so many feelings are subject to change and others are capricious. I'm horribly capricious, whimsical, occasionally cruel and perverse. But love as I experience is forever. Sexual passion can change but love as I experience it... Never does. Once I love you, that's that. My soul delights in yours and that won't change. 

I feel so drained. The holidays and the demands of my work are crushing me. 
I want a hug. 
My employee is quitting in the middle of December. 
Everyone wants something from me. 
I just want a hug and a cry.


----------



## cinnabun

Jabbytoe69 said:


> Say whaaaaat I'm hella confused haha


I mean I've been told I'm weird so hopefully that means we should get along .


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> I mean I've been told I'm weird so hopefully that means we should get along .


Awww yis *makes fist * gimme daps


----------



## 6007

I feel like these days are truly grinding me down
and ever since I made it exclusive with infj we talk less. 

I dont need support, but I wish I had some. I know I can rely upon myself but I'm drained and sad and I have been under such persistent stress it's starting to cause me actual despair. 

I just want a hug. 

I tried to talk to infj and I had nothing to say. Last time we tried to talk I had nothing either. 

What is happening to me.


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> I feel like these days are truly grinding me down
> and ever since I made it exclusive with infj we talk less.
> 
> I dont need support, but I wish I had some. I know I can rely upon myself but I'm drained and sad and I have been under such persistent stress it's starting to cause me actual despair.
> 
> I just want a hug.
> 
> I tried to talk to infj and I had nothing to say. Last time we tried to talk I had nothing either.
> 
> What is happening to me.


sometimes when i know there's a need to talk, and yet can't, i just take a day away from it. go hiking, blow off everything that i'm not obligated to do (work, pay bills, etc) and then just hang out by myself. 
basically, whatever it is that allows you to reconnect, try doing that. i'm not saying it will make you happy--you might actually end up feeling worse--but at least it can redirect things back to a course they need to be on.


----------



## infinity paradox

ripley said:


> Every other day it seems I see a post on Facebook talking about how someone I know is Ambiverted, because they read some article on the Internet.
> Im like: technically EVERYONE is Ambiverted. It is NOT a spectrum.
> ... Jesus. Fucking. Christ.
> 
> *i notice the people who are like I AM AMBIVERTED tend to use Fe, but my sample size is small, maybe like five people max.
> 
> *feeling vs thinking seems to really trip people up as well. I'm like "being a thinker does not mean you don't have feelings... Please read a book. Please. I'll buy it for you."


Wellllll, do you not think it's a spectrum considering that some of these tests give you your *percentages* ? Specifically, more true with MBTI because they tell you Ni 62 % Ne 38% and so on, so it's a spectrum of which ones were the strongest, stronger, strong, and less strong in *postion* to the others, and also how much over and under they are e/i . 

Divergence is interesting. It exists. As long as we all know that no system is ever fully correct AND fully complete at the same time (Godel) , you don't really *need* to think about divergence. But I still do... Also think it's okay to describe myself within the system ( 6w5 ) because I'm not threatened, but I know some people are / do / won't label themselves on principle.


----------



## infinity paradox

@ripley Feeling similar things lately. And... It's beautiful that you can love that way. I go about love in a similar fashion. I simply am honest about true, natural connections that I feel. It doesn't mean I am demanding anything or trying to trap that person. 

Recently this issue came up with someone I care for, and the real problem is that the other person traps themselves into thoughts about relationships that make them seem stifling. It has nothing to do with me and how I love, and my ability to love freely. That made me feel a little bit better. It's still frustrating and upsetting but it's something to have confidence in.

I hope you get some hugs in real life.. but if you can't there's always this ...


enguin: :hug: enguin: :hug: 

:hellokitty:

i abhor the winter holidays. :ninja:


----------



## infinity paradox

Rala said:


> Usually, in such moments, I first listen to really angry music, then after I calm down I listen to such songs. I am done with the angry songs. And how is it that this guy's voice makes his songs sadder than they should sound. It adds a lot to it.


 @Rala I agree and I am the same way @Animal good songs  dust to gold, good lyrics. relevant for me too, atm.


----------



## infinity paradox

Animal said:


> @_infinity paradox_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is an imaginary love letter to you from an imaginary ex. I can just picture someone singing this about you, covering it and staring at you on stage, or belting it out from their bedroom while crying. At least that's what would have happened to me if you had broken my heart.


 @Animal I love this song.... I think I am flattered  

But it also feels really, really fucked up at times   <3 

....When and how is talking about philosophy and math in so much detail sometimes.. heartbreaking ? .... Tracing the shapes ... I wonder if I travel the world, will I find another loop as strong as my spiral twin, raised in the garden near mine ... ? 

I have to remind myself that feeling something in it isn't weak, but honest.

...At this time of night I almost want to tell the others in pain to stop looking for merging, don't look for understanding or common ground. Don't try to relate. It's pointless. It just is.... And I don't know if I'm capable of anything else.... It's heaven and hell. I can never unknow it. That is what they mean by madness. 

I think I've failed in both types ....I never felt like I had to try, that if it was "right" it would be right... but maybe that's part of the problem. ....at least he will engage as long as I am not a threat. As long as my mind can make love to his, I might be fine. Harden to the need for physical touch. sigh. Only in dreams, we live forever side by side. 

This is why I don't date. I have to be important to the person/people I love. We have to be best friends. I don't want them to go away. Mostly, they will stay around. My problem isn't the people I love not staying per say, but staying to engage me mentally while I am torn apart inside by the fact that my love is discarded.

I will scoff at people who chase their interests down, or fight over them.... but I am really more pathetic because my work seems to be in having them stay.., stay in limbo, or leave and come back to engage me, I'll be you best friend, mother, student, teacher, lover... They won't love me in the way I need, though. I'm too strong. I'm too weak. I'm too intense, We haven't known each other long but I know too much. Or it's been long and the fantasy has been longer than the reality. I want everything ...

...There's no denying such things, though, when there is magnetic force, when there is instant reaction. When we are thinking the same thing, when I describe your theory in other words you haven't said yet and you say you can't imagine a world where you didn't know my method. The mind folds in to the soul taking over. I am in awe over and over. I prevent myself from encountering you too much. When I do, I fall into every endless fractal...amazed at your (inner) beauty like always...And my heart breaks...


----------



## infinity paradox

http://fractalenlightenment.com/33179/life/finite-and-infinite-lovers-changing-the-game-of-love

I'll just leave this here for now...


----------



## 6007

infinity paradox said:


> Wellllll, do you not think it's a spectrum considering that some of these tests give you your *percentages* ? Specifically, more true with MBTI because they tell you Ni 62 % Ne 38% and so on, so it's a spectrum of which ones were the strongest, stronger, strong, and less strong in *postion* to the others, and also how much over and under they are e/i .
> 
> Divergence is interesting. It exists.  As long as we all know that no system is ever fully correct AND fully complete at the same time (Godel) , you don't really *need* to think about divergence. But I still do... Also think it's okay to describe myself within the system ( 6w5 ) because I'm not threatened, but I know some people are / do / won't label themselves on principle.


I don't believe in a spectrum, I believe in functions.
there will be a percentage people use the given functions, and the tests may reflect a near balance. All this does is serve to indicate which function goes where and which function likely fits best. For example an intj uses feeling but prefers Fi. The intj might show a lot of feeling even, but that doesn't make it just FEELING. That person prefers Fi. 
The percentages would only make sense on a spectrum level if they were simply feeling vs thinking, but there are two types of everything. 
I am exhausted and I just woke up so I might not be articulating correctly but suffice to say no I don't believe in a spectrum. I don't care about percentages. I believe in functions only; those make sense to me. I am an istp. I use Si, but I just don't use it as well as an istj. I use Se. I don't use it as well as an ESTP. i use Ti. I score high in Te because I am a thinker. This does not make me an ENTJ. They find my depth of thinking irritating and I find theirs shallow and lacking. Functions are elegant and they work, percentages and scoring indicate which might be strongest or are likely preferred. 

This is answer is lame but whatever.


----------



## Animal

ripley said:


> I don't believe in a spectrum, I believe in functions.
> there will be a percentage people use the given functions, and the tests may reflect a near balance. All this does is serve to indicate which function goes where and which function likely fits best. For example an intj uses feeling but prefers Fi. The intj might show a lot of feeling even, but that doesn't make it just FEELING. That person prefers Fi.
> The percentages would only make sense on a spectrum level if they were simply feeling vs thinking, but there are two types of everything.
> I am exhausted and I just woke up so I might not be articulating correctly but suffice to say no I don't believe in a spectrum. I don't care about percentages. I believe in functions only; those make sense to me. I am an istp. I use Si, but I just don't use it as well as an istj. I use Se. I don't use it as well as an ESTP. i use Ti. I score high in Te because I am a thinker. This does not make me an ENTJ. They find my depth of thinking irritating and I find theirs shallow and lacking. Functions are elegant and they work, percentages and scoring indicate which might be strongest or are likely preferred.
> 
> This is answer is lame but whatever.


I tend to see it this way too. If you're going to use the system, use it, if not, don't, but the idea of half-using it but creating spectrums and extras doesn't really work for me personally. I won't comment on how others approach it, but to me it defeats the purpose. Maybe, for people who have already studied each system in depth and taken a lot of time to self-type, reflect on it and so forth, at that point, questioning and critiquing the system might be useful..but otherwise, I get a lot more out of accepting the premise and finding myself and others within it, and also acknowledging its limits. Understanding how different two people of the same type can be, really helps - because it helps one to boil that type down to its *truest* nature. If two people can be the same type, yet different in XYZ ways, what is the common denominator? These type of questions are what I would find useful.

All that said, I'll reiterate that it doesn't particularly bother me if people approach the system differently than I do. I'll argue my points, but at the end of the day, enneagram and MBTI are tools for one's own understanding. You get out what you put in, so who am I to decide what someone else will get out or put in. I can only tell them what it has done for me, and my approach, and they can choose on their own if that works for them. I also love to try to figure out if people's approaches to enneagram are type-related in any way.  I have seen some consistencies there.

@infinity paradox and I have had long heated discussions about this topic   and I cherish each one.


----------



## Animal

Lol,
It reminds me of a common conversation between my ENTP father and ISTJ mother.

Setting: both of them watching a sci-fi movie.

ISTJ: That person's shirt changed color in the middle of the scene.

ENTP: :laughing:

ISTJ: ..... it completely changed!! Did you see that?

ENTP: You can accept that green aliens pop out of the sky and transport people to another dimension, but you can't accept a shirt color changing?

ISTJ: The aliens and dimensions are the premise of the movie! I can suspend disbelief, but I can't accept something that is inconsistent and has no explanation in this context. Can't you tell the difference?

ENTP: ..... :exterminate:


----------



## drmiller100

infinity paradox said:


> Finite and Infinite Lovers: Changing the Game of Love – Fractal Enlightenment
> 
> I'll just leave this here for now...


Fuck me. Wow. 

Timing on this is impeccable. 

Where a finite lover seeks power and control over love, an infinite lover releases control and seeks the power within love. Where a finite lover seeks invulnerability through love, an infinite lover seeks vulnerability within love.

Read more at: Finite and Infinite Lovers: Changing the Game of Love – Fractal Enlightenment | FractalEnlightenment.com


it hurts the more I hang on but it is so scary to let go.......


----------



## drmiller100

ripley said:


> I don't believe in a spectrum, I believe in functions.
> 
> I don't care about percentages. I believe in functions only; those make sense to me. I am an istp. I use Si, but I just don't use it as well as an istj. I use Se. I don't use it as well as an ESTP. i use Ti. I score high in Te because I am a thinker. .


I agree.

smart people use more functions effectively. I'm entp and pretty bright. I am really fucking good at Ne and Ti, and those are EASY for me. Along the way I learned to tap into Ni and even a healthy dose of Te when I need. 

Fe is third for me. I am ok at Fe. I am more 2 dimensional than most. Most people develop their tertiary and inferior functions much better than I. 
I can beat most INTP's at INTP games. I can beat most INTJ's at INTJ games. I can beat most ENTJ's at entj games. I suck at S and F stuff.


----------



## Animal

drmiller100 said:


> I agree.
> 
> smart people use more functions effectively. I'm entp and pretty bright. I am really fucking good at Ne and Ti, and those are EASY for me. Along the way I learned to tap into Ni and even a healthy dose of Te when I need.
> 
> Fe is third for me. I am ok at Fe. I am more 2 dimensional than most. Most people develop their tertiary and inferior functions much better than I.
> I can beat most INTP's at INTP games. I can beat most INTJ's at INTJ games. I can beat most ENTJ's at entj games. I suck at S and F stuff.


Hm.

I'm not sure about this, but if I had to type functions and shadow functions in terms of which ones work best for me...

Ne > Fi > Te > Fe > Si > Se > Ni > Ti 

or something.

To communicate clearly in words, I require a INTP or ENTP translator . Or editor.


----------



## Kurt Wagner

ripley said:


> I will never be lonely, because I'm never alone… I am full of me.


I'm using this one in the future. :ninja:


----------



## 6007

Luke Skywalker said:


> I'm using this one in the future. :ninja:


Have at it.


----------



## 6007

Today I did Seva and it was wonderful. 
I helped someone make their dearest dream come true. And it was help I could provide happily.


----------



## Blue Soul

acidicwithpanic said:


> Oh c'mon, I'll take both. You just can't spell any lady parts by music. Sexism bruh.


Idk, that G-clef looks pretty womanly to me.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

Blue Soul said:


> Idk, that G-clef looks pretty womanly to me.


G-spot...


----------



## cinnabun

I just want to eat my body weight in comfor food. Anybody wanna come over and cook for me? Please?


----------



## Ace Face

Rinnie said:


> I just want to eat my body weight in comfor food. Anybody wanna come over and cook for me? Please?


I don't feel like cooking, but I'll partake in the eating part ^.^


----------



## cinnabun

Ace Face said:


> I don't feel like cooking, but I'll partake in the eating part ^.^


Sexy. Pull on your spanks and join me.


----------



## 6007

OMFG I am fucking trying not to DIE from sexual frustration. 
TWO MONTHS NO SEX.
I seriously can't even get undressed or see my own body naked with out getting all aroused.

I was putting on stockings and looking at my legs and like grrrrrrrrrrrr someone needs to handle this body for me.


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> I just want to eat my body weight in comfor food. Anybody wanna come over and cook for me? Please?


I shall cook a CULINARY PALET OF MASTERFUL FOODS....or ofc dominoes and some weed...that ok?


----------



## cinnabun

Jabbytoe69 said:


> I shall cook a CULINARY PALET OF MASTERFUL FOODS....or ofc dominoes and some weed...that ok?


Sounds amazing .


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> Sounds amazing .


Hey 
ok give you your weirdest fastest stonerist night ever babycakes


----------



## cinnabun

Jabbytoe69 said:


> Hey
> ok give you your weirdest fastest stonerist night ever babycakes


Omfg:laughing:. Sounds like a date, inbox me yo info fam :wink:.


----------



## 6007

I am fucking DYING.
I was talking to my infj and hearing his perspective on religion and life made me want to clit fuck his brain.
Am I allowed to say that here?
Anyway, that's the facts.


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> Omfg:laughing:. Sounds like a date, inbox me yo info fam :wink:.


Willdo dawll any chance to get to know you better I'm in


----------



## nichya

ripley said:


> I am fucking DYING.
> I was talking to my infj and hearing his perspective on religion and life made me want to clit fuck his brain.
> Am I allowed to say that here?
> Anyway, that's the facts.


but aren't you gonna share the content though? such a teaser. I get absolutely swoonish when Rust Cohle talks about life


----------



## 6007

nichya said:


> but aren't you gonna share the content though? such a teaser. I get absolutely swoonish when Rust Cohle talks about life


This is vaguely flirtatious, your tone. 
Hmmmmm I do approve.


----------



## Gorgon

@ripley May I borrow the phrase "clit fuck"? It has a certain je ne sais quoi.


----------



## Gorgon

Lately, I've been more pervy than usual. I know I'm an unabashed pervert but it has gotten worse (or better :wink: ). It sucks that my partner lives 7-8 hours away. Also, @ripley's posts certainly don't help matters lol :blushed::frustrating:

THE THIRST IS REAL!!


----------



## Golden Rose

nichya said:


> but aren't you gonna share the content though? such a teaser. I get absolutely swoonish when Rust Cohle talks about life


Definitely a 5 with a strong 8 fix.
I really like that show, still moving through the first season but the second sounds solid enough.


----------



## Ace Face

I'm so focused on my career, on my family, and on being the best version of myself that I could possibly be right now. The rest is a blur--a breeze that blows by today and is forgotten tomorrow. I might check in on friends here and there, but for the most part, I just enjoy being. I'm alive and I'm in control. I've got everything I want and more. My life is on track, my goals are set, my attitude is positive, my expectations are realistic, and my health is good. I've got it fucking made right now, and I could not be more grateful. Life is the shit because I say so ^.^


----------



## Ace Face

Rinnie said:


> It's weird to think this year is almost over. Like, how quickly has 2015 came and gone? I swear, it only feels like last week I turned 22.
> 
> I'm looking forward to what 2016 will bring me, I hope it will be nothing but good things. This year has been a roller-coaster of emotion, and honestly, I'm glad I got off. It was time for me to re-group and think about myself for a change, instead of wasting my time worrying about everything and everyone.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, some great things have happened this year: I was able to love and feel loved, I was able to meet new, wonderful people, and I became closer to people where I didn't even think it was possible, since we're already as close as can be. These specific incidents will now become memories that I'll look back on, happy memories. They'll become special moments that I'll cherish forever.
> 
> It's bitter-sweet. Happy that they all happened, but sad that you're letting it go.
> 
> I look forward to making new memories for myself.
> 
> One thing I set out to do was make 2015 my year, since 2014 was so terrible. I promised myself I'd work on my issues, and start loving myself. Might be almost 12 months late, but I've managed to keep that promise. I'm on the road to recovery, and I'm so proud of myself.
> 
> I'm excited for Christmas to come now, and for new beginnings .


I could not be more proud of you <3 Keep moving forward! Life is what you make it, after all  Live it up!


----------



## infinity paradox

Why do you lift me up higher, only to watch me fall faster and harder? ...hitting the ground like a high-rise-suicide,
the thud splat of flesh and the splash gush of blood...rich kroovy everywhere. 

So soft when confronted with the real parts of this, humbled, and we hurt together because it seems unbearable...

in the shapes and letters this up and down hits cool and leveled off again, each section of interaction cut off from every other, cauterized ... 

I loop back around and don't drop the weight, you may need it, and you've been so grateful. 

Ice-picking. Sharp jabs return. Just forget the beating hearts. And the frozen. Pressing hands to the glass and feeling warmth on the other side. But, it's futile. Only ghosts on the other side. Ghosts and childhood memories. 

Who else could go to these great lengths but me? I've met myself, here, and fell in love. 
I still want to meet you, halfway. Hold you, press the skin of our chests together and hear the hearts beat apart, but feel them all at once. Even in or out of sync, to have each other's warmth, to squeeze you tight. 

...I've had enough dark nights of the soul to last a lifetime.


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> You're just...I'm glad you signed up to here:laughing:.
> 
> If you're lucky you might just get to .


I'm glad I signed up here to 

That a promise?


----------



## 6007

I love how the Internet and other technological advances have made seduction so much more enjoyable. On any given day you meet a person, and you see their face, hear their voice, see the way they work and operate in real time, yet sometimes there isn't a connection. This could be simply because two people don't connect. But what I think is interesting about technology is it allows people to connect bit by bit. 
So if I "meet" someone on fb they can read my words. Then see my pictures. Then receive voice clips. Each tiny thing builds upon the next. It creates an excitement that isn't there face to face and I like that. I know how to leverage it to my advantage. I can read someone through a screen, and I am frequently right. 
While the person I'm interacting with is unique and will be full of wonderful surprises, it startles and intrigues me to play a game in such a strange virtual space. 

when I first heard infj's voice I was surprised by how deep it is. Mmmmmmm. But I initiated voice. I did it on purpose because I had a feeling it would interest him and make him like me more. Calculated intimacy. It was just me testing to see what was there. Worked beautifully too. Much was simply instinct but I had no idea about some other things I did were increasing his attraction to me; not intentional. Yet filed away in my keeper. 

I love fact gathering for later. I definitely never stop collecting information.


----------



## 6007

Jabbytoe69 said:


> I'm glad I signed up here to
> 
> That a promise?


This is fucking adorable. 
Hate to insert myself here but I admit I'm curious: did you meet elsewhere, or did you meet on perc?
I realize it isn't my business so I will fuck off if too nosy. 
This has sort of warmed my heart so I wondered.


----------



## 6007

I had an instant attraction last year to an infp who is determined to be forever alone. 
Part of me wonders if I was attracted to him because emotionally unavailable. But the other part remember how much he physically embodied so many of my ideals. He's incredibly handsome, but not in some boy model way, he's massive and masculine and burly. Sigh. 

What intrigues me about him is the sense I get that he is guarded. When we met, it was obvious I really liked him. What I didn't know, was that he definitely was not looking for a partner. I came to realize later that he is a highly sought after person, and I got the sense that he Shuns women on purpose, and I finally figured out why. He does NOT want a commitment, yet he's the type of guy who only attracts women who want to lock it down. I totally wanted to lock it down the first second I saw Him. He just has boyfriend material written all over him. Hahahaaaa. 

I got the sense recently that he had some hurts and hangups regarding his own sexuality. I didn't mean to but I kind of started filling in a space as a healer. He ended up confiding to me spontaneously that I helped heal a lot of his baggage regarding sex. I confided in return that it was intentional and that I was sorry if that came off as creepy. I can read him through text. I don't know how or why. I know I can't heal him completely, and I don't want to, but I'm hopeful that he will grow enough to be able to have sex with another person, instead of needing everything to be so contained. I sense he'd really like a lover but not all the entanglements and expectations. I pointed him to fetlife; I didn't tell him yet but I think he'd make an excellent secondary partner. 

I am so happy I didn't pursue this guy too hard. Something about our interactions made me hold off, even as things became sexual I sensed he wouldn't ever go for it in person; thankful I'm not obtuse as fuck. 

Ive been watching my enfp friend and I've seen delusional up close. It is not good. I like being not-delusional.


----------



## cinnabun

Jabbytoe69 said:


> I'm glad I signed up here to
> 
> That a promise?


You're a persistent one:laughing:.

Because you're cute, I'll say yes. Don't let me down now...or else .


----------



## Blue Soul

Ace Face said:


> I'm so focused on my career, on my family, and on being the best version of myself that I could possibly be right now. The rest is a blur--a breeze that blows by today and is forgotten tomorrow. I might check in on friends here and there, but for the most part, I just enjoy being. I'm alive and I'm in control. I've got everything I want and more. My life is on track, my goals are set, my attitude is positive, my expectations are realistic, and my health is good. I've got it fucking made right now, and I could not be more grateful. Life is the shit because I say so ^.^


Inspiring speech. I need to go to the gym, it's been a lazy winter. I also want to be the best version of myself. ^^


----------



## Ace Face

Blue Soul said:


> Inspiring speech. I need to go to the gym, it's been a lazy winter. I also want to be the best version of myself. ^^


What sort of things are you working on right now? ^.^


----------



## Blue Soul

Ace Face said:


> What sort of things are you working on right now? ^.^


Getting out of the apartment.


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> You're a persistent one:laughing:.
> 
> Because you're cute, I'll say yes. Don't let me down now...or else .


What can I say there's something about you that's got a hold on me trust me letting you downs the last thing il do


----------



## Jabbytoe69

ripley said:


> This is fucking adorable.
> Hate to insert myself here but I admit I'm curious: did you meet elsewhere, or did you meet on perc?
> I realize it isn't my business so I will fuck off if too nosy.
> This has sort of warmed my heart so I wondered.


I signed up her because I'm quite bad with anger controll and depression andbi herd I could vent on here so yeah but I never expected to find someone as brilliant as her on here on my small isolated island she's like the ship in the distance haha #cheese she's a really good mate in all seriousness


----------



## Vermillion

Tbh so glad I spent extra money on surprising the people I love instead of buying myself more pretty clothes. It's such a joy to see them happy and share in some of their delight. I think it's those moments when you're truly warm and happy with the people you love that you're invincible.


----------



## Gorgon

Blue Soul said:


> Getting out of the apartment.


Admittedly, this is hard. I feel ya.


----------



## 6007

In early October it became obvious I sort of buried El Diablo in my emotional landscape. 
I still can't figure out what happened there. I suspect it's actually simple but my octopus heart makes it seem more complex than it is. 
At one time, he was a bit of baggage I dragged everywhere with me and I didn't care. I fucked him while thinking I was in love with Jareth. I wasn't about to give him up. 

But Jareth was only on the scene because Diablo was like "I don't wanna be monogamous." Me? I am certainly good at keeping shit open but, well I had different intentions for us, when I'm honest. As time passes it's easier for me to see what I'm doing. 

Because things were never truly ironed out with us, because they were vague (he doesn't seem to love confrontation and I need it to know where things stand), I was never able to figure out what the expectations were. Somewhere in June his attention started to falter. I thought he was interested in someone else so I backed off. Then I saw him July, and it went poorly. I thought the other woman would pull his attention, but he kept fucking me when no one was looking and spending all his time with her in public. I was like... Ok this is how it is. Fine. 

So my heart was wide open for infj to walk right in. 

I can't figure out Diablo. He's darker than I realized. I can't even articulate it to myself. 
when I try, it's like... He asked me to go for a moonlit boat ride. Then let in a small hole. The water seeped in and it was warm. But then he added several bricks and sunk us. He sunk it. 

I cant understand why and I know part of it was my doing. i wasn't intentional enough, I just responded to what was in front of me. I reacted to everything he said and took that as my green light to explore any capricious whim I had. 

Last year I wanted to ring in the New Year with him when I mentioned it he kept it vague. So I spent it fucking Squeeze. And Diablo called me on the way there to tell me how much he liked and missed me... But it's like... Fuck this guy. 

He doesn't deserve all of these words. He is emotionally unavailable childish and a game player. I played a part and I don't fault him for these judgments.

bottom line: he liked fucking me. 
That is about it.
i was the woman who represented his every fantasy and he wanted to keep me available no matter who was on the scene without being a real partner or lover. 


Live and learn ripley. 

Some men will love you. Some will love fucking you. Some will love both and neither.


----------



## Superfluous

I haven't gotten once hospitalized or even sick since August, I have gone months without taking a single pain killer and holy shit and I'm so proud of myself because that means I've been treating myself with kindness, and omitting all kinds extremities (like eating a bunch of salt, or not dressing warm enough). I suppose, I guess I just stopped testing my body. Shiiit, if this is what healthy living is.. I don't know much people here but I hope everyone health is stellar too, because damn, I'm feeling pretty good. 

I don't have the usual "I AM DOING GREAT IN LIFE BECAUSE A, B, C" post. Because I realized when I share updates I end up sounding like this:



> I love it when i cook stuff for myself bc like i’ve just cooked pasta and yee bitch look at me providing for myself i could totally make it in this world it’s almost as if i have my life together ...
> 
> i take this back the pasta was shit i’m falling apart


hahah so besides being able to do my responsibilities and not slide for too long, there's nothing to brag about. At the end of the day, I am the usual still a nothing do-er, and I'm quite content with being so. I write all the time. I've sold my camera, donated all my books, and gave away my painting stuff, because I decided to give my all in one thing alone. I thought I would go crazy, but I get to just fill the spaces with people and activities that is much more meaningful. 

2015, was a roller coaster. I fainted a few times. (no seriously Six Flags rollercoasters? I pretty much fainted in all of them lolol.) 21 is the year I grew the most, and learned the most about me. 

1. Bug phobia is something everyone mocks until you can basically save all their asses when you're the one to take mice outside.
2. Denying spirituality or a personal philosophy could be the worst mistake you can make for yourself. (my most powerful chakra is the purple one, not too sure what the hell was I doing putting an eye patch there.) 
3. Don't write yourself off as a grandma with computers just yet, you never know when you need to save your computer yourself, and you actually become fond of coding. 
4. Drinking a gallon a day is much easier than it looks.
5. I can live off 60 dollars of food a month without eating complete shit. (Thanks to the rent I started paying, currently making my "Yay! I'm an adult" badge because apparently, those dont exist.)
6. Homemade Moroccan does in fact tastes better if you eat on the floor but my cookies will always taste like burned dog food. 
7. I look damn amazing in bangs. 
8. Expressing every thought and action in my head is not as crucial as it feels. (and it no longer feels crucial)
9. Standards are subjective and humanity is fickle.
10. You must fall of a skateboard a few times before you know how to really ride it.


----------



## 6007

Counting down the days until I see my infj. 
Omfg how can time move so slowly.
and why do I now day dream about him wearing a frilly dress and tormenting me. 
Dude it gets weird in here. 

And he casually mentioned wearing a collar and I was squirming while trying to act normal.

this guy. Right here. Is the devil.


----------



## cinnabun

Jabbytoe69 said:


> I signed up her because I'm quite bad with anger controll and depression andbi herd I could vent on here so yeah but I never expected to find someone as brilliant as her on here on my small isolated island she's like the ship in the distance haha #cheese she's a really good mate in all seriousness


I just started talking to you and I'm already a "good mate"? Fuck yeah xD. We're gonna be so tight yo.


----------



## Gorgon

Why I ever thought I was sp-first is ridonculus. I'm an eternal child, a precocious child, but a child nonetheless. Seething and perpetually frustrated, there's this potent energy that's ready to explode at any moment. I'm a wanderer, explorer, mage, and malcontent searching for the transcendental and archetypal. Because of my upbringing, my sx-instinct was stifled and looked down upon, and thus repressed. This led to a conflicting relationship with it which spurred a love/hate relationship with it. This conflict is manifested heavily in the expression of my sexuality, something that I constantly think about, conceptualize, and have to frequently come to terms with. Sexuality is not something I just do. It's an ethos, an ideology, an identity. From one of my blog entries: 

Sexuality for me has always been a convoluted subject. On a subjective level, my experience with sexuality has been mired with confusion, exhilaration, rage, and shame. Sexuality is an ideology in and of itself, an ideology with many edges, slippages, and contradictions. Like any ideology, sexuality is constituted through practices, ideas, and relations. We’re all presented with an overriding sexual superstructure that comes with its own set of values. However, when it gets to the personal, daily practice of sexuality, it gets messier. I would say I'm highly influenced by both Antonin Artaud's Theatre of Cruelty and Bataille in regards to my sexuality. Here's a snippet of Artaud's ToC:



> In his writings on the Theatre of Cruelty, Artaud points to definitions of both “theatre” and “cruelty” that are separate from their colloquial meanings. For Artaud, theatre does not merely refer to a staged performance before a passive audience. The theatre is a practice, which “wakes us up. Nerves and heart,” and through which we experience, “immediate violent action,” that “inspires us with the fiery magnetism of its images and acts upon us like a spiritual therapeutics whose touch can never be forgotten.”[4]
> Similarly, cruelty does not refer to an act of emotional or physical violence. According to scholar Nathan Gorelick, “Cruelty is, more profoundly, the unrelenting agitation of a life that has become unnecessary, lazy, or removed from a compelling force. The Theatre of Cruelty gives expression to everything that is ‘crime, love, war, or madness’ in order to ‘unforgettably root within us the ideas of perpetual conflict, a spasm in which life is continually lacerated, in which everything in creation rises up and asserts itself against our appointed rank.’
> 
> Source


I see similarities in both Artaud and Bataille, even though the former focuses on the theatre and the latter focuses on sexuality. The similarities are not surprising since they're both surrealists.

Both the theatre and eroticism is about the purging of subconscious and unconscious energies. It's the dissolution of the self by surrendering oneself to these forces. For Artaud, the theatre should be a space where both the the actors and audience purge these energies. He thought Western theatre was too tame: it was overly focused on the characters' psychological or social conflicts. He wanted the theatre to transcend that. He believed that the subconscious was the root of all conflict.

Likewise, for Bataille, eroticism is about transgressing one's boundaries. Death, violence, and sex throttles the totality of one's being. All three dissolves the subject's boundaries and opens one up to continuity. Continuity allows communication with other dissolved subjects and the universe. It's transcendental to human activity, and is only reached through death (dissolution, annihilation, etc.). One has to be "die" to experience life. It's like achieving a sort of gnosis.

In summary, for me, sexuality is about transformation; the continuation of the cycle of life, death, and rebirth, both on the metaphysical and physical level. It's both creative and destructive. There's no beginning or end, just a perpetual process of becoming. One is always in media res.

Similarly, I use writing as catharsis and dissolution. I wouldn't say I'm exorcising my subconscious, but I'm exorcising demons that are deeply repressed within my psyche. It's a safe and constructive way to release them. Writing is a performance and in the spirit of Artaud, I use writing as a way to awaken elemental and archaic feelings within myself and others, feelings that possibly offend polite society. Like in sex, I want to dissolve the boundary between myself and the audience.

How I see and experience my sx-instinct:


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Hm, I probably would have an easier time if I were better at romanticising.


----------



## Ace Face

Distortions said:


> Hm, I probably would have an easier time if I were better at romanticising.


I actually don't have anything to say about this particular post, but I just now noticed your signature. I know the answer to that question  There is one "sad old folks" bar around here, and the saying is literally that (Insert Name of Bar) is where dreams go to die, lol. It's kinda true though. It's full of depressed middle-aged+ people, and you would literally find more cheer in a graveyard. I swear that place is a disease in and of itself. But yeah, around these parts, everyone knows where dreams go to die, and it's that sad ass bar xD


----------



## 6007

I just had a super captain obvious lightbulb moment, and it might not even be correct. 
I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the INFP uses Fi + Si. 
As such, their self loathing loops over what they deem to be failures of the past make utter sense. Past oriented and moralistic, that type couldn't possibly forgive themselves for failures in their behavior...
ive never read about an Fi Si loop but as introverts are introverted it makes sense their introverted tendencies will link up and spin out at times. Hm. More reading perhaps. And a fact check as well.


----------



## nichya

ripley said:


> I just had a super captain obvious lightbulb moment, and it might not even be correct.
> I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the INFP uses Fi + Si.
> As such, their self loathing loops over what they deem to be failures of the past make utter sense. Past oriented and moralistic, that type couldn't possibly forgive themselves for failures in their behavior...
> ive never read about an Fi Si loop but as introverts are introverted it makes sense their introverted tendencies will link up and spin out at times. Hm. More reading perhaps. And a fact check as well.


Fi Si loop is definitely a thing, such nightmare.


----------



## Gorgon

*for women who are 'difficult' to love. by Warsan Shire*

you are a horse running alone
and he tries to tame you
compares you to an impossible highway
to a burning house
says you are blinding him
that he could never leave you
forget you
want anything but you
you dizzy him, you are unbearable
every woman before or after you
is doused in your name
you fill his mouth
his teeth ache with memory of taste
his body just a long shadow seeking yours
but you are always too intense
frightening in the way you want him
unashamed and sacrificial
he tells you that no man can live up to the one who
lives in your head
and you tried to change didn't you?
closed your mouth more
tried to be softer
prettier
less volatile, less awake
but even when sleeping you could feel
him travelling away from you in his dreams
so what did you want to do love
split his head open?
you can't make homes out of human beings
someone should have already told you that
and if he wants to leave
then let him leave
you are terrifying
and strange and beautiful
something not everyone knows how to love.


----------



## 6007

nichya said:


> Fi Si loop is definitely a thing, such nightmare.


Seems like it would be. It just sort of hit me when talking to an infp female friend of mine, and my infp guy friend (and occasional love interest) seems to go through it often. I hesitated to spring my idea on him or her before thinking it out more. 

I am trying to conceptualize what an Ni-Ti loop is like as well. I get an intuitive sense of it and believe I've seen it a bit with my partner but it isn't totally concrete in my mind yet.


----------



## nichya

ripley said:


> Seems like it would be. It just sort of hit me when talking to an infp female friend of mine, and my infp guy friend (and occasional love interest) seems to go through it often. I hesitated to spring my idea on him or her before thinking it out more.
> 
> I am trying to conceptualize what an Ni-Ti loop is like as well. I get an intuitive sense of it and believe I've seen it a bit with my partner but it isn't totally concrete in my mind yet.


If it has one perk, it is being able to play the events from different angles. It kind of gives you the ability to spread your memories like spiders webs and you can -like the guy in minority report- retrieve every single of them, replay -as is- and notice & understand things you had not at the time. It is vibrant and the feelings is as if it is coded, you feel the memories as well and of course the new findings and the new feelings that come with that. The thing is we have Si preferences and it kind of is how we experience the sensory world - as the objects echo in our inner world or instant access to memories - but we are not good at using Si, we are terrible actually. Sure I do notice little gestures of people I observe and remember what they like but I think we are especially bad at Si in the way that we can't control it so when a FiSi loop happens, it is hell. Constant replaying of events in our mind, should have, could have, sense of unfairness, losing in touch with Ne and future, lack of appetite for what usually makes us happy, new experiences etc.

On a more structured behavioral outlook (there is also NiTi loop): http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> OMFG I am fucking trying not to DIE from sexual frustration.
> TWO MONTHS NO SEX.
> I seriously can't even get undressed or see my own body naked with out getting all aroused.
> 
> I was putting on stockings and looking at my legs and like grrrrrrrrrrrr someone needs to handle this body for me.


Almost a year and a half here. I feel your pain (_seriously_), though I don't express it the same way.

Fucking frustrating.


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> Seems like it would be. It just sort of hit me when talking to an infp female friend of mine, and my infp guy friend (and occasional love interest) seems to go through it often. I hesitated to spring my idea on him or her before thinking it out more.
> 
> I am trying to conceptualize what an Ni-Ti loop is like as well. I get an intuitive sense of it and believe I've seen it a bit with my partner but it isn't totally concrete in my mind yet.


The way I understand this, Ni-Ti is fragmented vision.

Ni pulls things together into a cohesive point of view. It's singular and makes sense to the person's sight. Then Ti takes that and breaks it up with logical deconstruction driven by the person's negativity or whatever they happen to be feeling that's causing the loop. Their mind ends up trying to sustain two conflicting points of view at the same time. To them it probably feels like they're thinking too much.

The way I see loops in general, the tertiary becomes too influential and defining in the psyche to be completely under the guidance or control of the dominant. In this case, that appears to create a rather disharmonious experience, at least as I have seen it occur in a few INFJs I have associated with.


----------



## mimesis

ripley said:


> Seems like it would be. It just sort of hit me when talking to an infp female friend of mine, and my infp guy friend (and occasional love interest) seems to go through it often. I hesitated to spring my idea on him or her before thinking it out more.
> 
> I am trying to conceptualize what an Ni-Ti loop is like as well. I get an intuitive sense of it and believe I've seen it a bit with my partner but it isn't totally concrete in my mind yet.


Here's a list of the 8 Dominant-Tertiary loops (pairs) and their predisposition to dysfunctional personality traits or personality disorder. Mind you, of course depending on the persistence and pervasiveness of the cognitive behavioral loop.

In case of the so called "Inferior grip" or "Shadow type" it would correspond with the opposite attitude, e.g. in case of INFP it would be ESTJ shadow, and a predispositional "dysfunctional spectrum" between Avoidant (introverting Si/Fi) and Borderline (extraverting Ne/Te), and for INFJ/ISTP between Schizoid (introverting Ni/Ti) and Histrionic (extraverting Se/Fe). 

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html


----------



## cinnabun

ripley said:


> OMFG I am fucking trying not to DIE from sexual frustration.
> TWO MONTHS NO SEX.












Try still being a virgin:laughing::crying:.


----------



## 6007

Was looking at pictures I took of my lovely infj last time I saw him. 
Sigh. 
I am really very attracted to him.


----------



## 6007

Rinnie said:


> Try still being a virgin:laughing::crying:.


it gets worse after you have sex. 
it did for me, at any rate.


----------



## 6007

mimesis said:


> Here's a list of the 8 Dominant-Tertiary loops (pairs) and their predisposition to dysfunctional personality traits or personality disorder. Mind you, of course depending on the persistence and pervasiveness of the cognitive behavioral loop.
> 
> In case of the so called "Inferior grip" or "Shadow type" it would correspond with the opposite attitude, e.g. in case of INFP it would be ESTJ shadow, and a predispositional "dysfunctional spectrum" between Avoidant (introverting Si/Fi) and Borderline (extraverting Ne/Te), and for INFJ/ISTP between Schizoid (introverting Ni/Ti) and Histrionic (extraverting Se/Fe).
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/articles/25205-dominant-tertiary-loops-common-personality-disorders.html


no links!
i must figure it out myself and THEN see if I am right!

dont ask why

I DONT KNOW WHY

although these links and descriptors don't look like what I want to piece together but still
MUSTNT POISON THE STEW


----------



## nichya

ripley said:


> no links!
> i must figure it out myself and THEN see if I am right!
> 
> dont ask why
> 
> I DONT KNOW WHY
> 
> although these links and descriptors don't look like what I want to piece together but still
> MUSTNT POISON THE STEW


haha okay, keep us updated with your findings


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> no links!
> i must figure it out myself and THEN see if I am right!
> 
> dont ask why
> 
> I DONT KNOW WHY
> 
> although these links and descriptors don't look like what I want to piece together but still
> MUSTNT POISON THE STEW


this is sort of like myself actually, though... admittedly with less "checking back in" (i really need an outside'ish pull, such as being in class or something, or needing to fix something myself and not wanting to risk breaking it, to feel a need to "fact-check" in a way that isn't just observing reality + slight refinement over time)... 

it's like it becomes easier if i first hear the idea, and then kind of let myself recreate how it'll work, and this kind of pushes me in the right direction of where to look or what questions i need to answer for myself.


----------



## Golden Rose

I really like snow. No, I don't mean cocaine.
Sadly, Michigan decided to have summery weather in December for some unknown reason.

This is going to be the first Christmas I enjoy in a long time.
I don't put much stock in holidays because each day has the potential of being interesting but this one I like. It doesn't help that I tend to appreciate all sorts of wintery things. 

I tend to be hypnotized by decorations with bright lights on them. Sucks for my eyes.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

Do these shoes make me look like a slut? Yeah? Good.


----------



## Animal

Thanatesque said:


> *for women who are 'difficult' to love. by Warsan Shire*
> 
> you are a horse running alone
> and he tries to tame you
> compares you to an impossible highway
> to a burning house
> says you are blinding him
> that he could never leave you
> forget you
> want anything but you
> you dizzy him, you are unbearable
> every woman before or after you
> is doused in your name
> you fill his mouth
> his teeth ache with memory of taste
> his body just a long shadow seeking yours
> but you are always too intense
> frightening in the way you want him
> unashamed and sacrificial
> he tells you that no man can live up to the one who
> lives in your head
> and you tried to change didn't you?
> closed your mouth more
> tried to be softer
> prettier
> less volatile, less awake
> but even when sleeping you could feel
> him travelling away from you in his dreams
> so what did you want to do love
> split his head open?
> you can't make homes out of human beings
> someone should have already told you that
> and if he wants to leave
> then let him leave
> you are terrifying
> and strange and beautiful
> something not everyone knows how to love.


This was the story of my life before I met @_Sun Daeva_. Not only does he know how to love me, but he would likely relate to this poem himself. Perhaps the trick is to find someone made of this same fabric.


----------



## 6007

It would be nice for someone to know my mind space so well that just a few broken sentences would be recognizable as mine. 
I can't imagine anyone taking that kind of time or wanting that. But if anyone could...
i think my obsessive infj might. 
For any two people to truly know one another; it's a gift. 

All too rare and all too often discarded.


----------



## Jabbytoe69

Rinnie said:


> Try still being a virgin:laughing::crying:.


Yo not being a virgin is harder once you get you want a hella lot more you got it easyyy!!!


----------



## Rala

Thanatesque said:


> *for women who are 'difficult' to love. by Warsan Shire*
> 
> you are a horse running alone
> and he tries to tame you
> compares you to an impossible highway
> to a burning house
> says you are blinding him
> that he could never leave you
> forget you
> want anything but you
> you dizzy him, you are unbearable
> every woman before or after you
> is doused in your name
> you fill his mouth
> his teeth ache with memory of taste
> his body just a long shadow seeking yours
> but you are always too intense
> frightening in the way you want him
> unashamed and sacrificial
> he tells you that no man can live up to the one who
> lives in your head
> and you tried to change didn't you?
> closed your mouth more
> tried to be softer
> prettier
> less volatile, less awake
> but even when sleeping you could feel
> him travelling away from you in his dreams
> so what did you want to do love
> split his head open?
> you can't make homes out of human beings
> someone should have already told you that
> and if he wants to leave
> then let him leave
> you are terrifying
> and strange and beautiful
> something not everyone knows how to love.


This made me cry. Literally. I'm not even sorry.


----------



## 6007

My friend recently dumped her partner of a couple years over MMM. Mr Mixed Messages. 
MMM and she have never even kissed and he was upfront about seeing zero future. 

she has been spiraling over MMM. She has been sleeping around which has impacted her work and now she called in late to work because she couldn't get her shit together over feeling awful about MMM all night. 

They barely have a connection. She made most of it up in her head and I warned her about him. But he didn't sleep with her and tried to draw boundaries. she told me last night she doesn't understand why she feels this way after remaining so busy with other people. 

Because you can't bury people under other people. 

I hesitate to ask if maybe part of this is missing her original boyfriend... Who was a rebound from her ex husband of 14 years...


----------



## Donovan

Christmas Rose said:


> I really like snow. No, I don't mean cocaine.
> Sadly, Michigan decided to have summery weather in December for some unknown reason.
> 
> This is going to be the first Christmas I enjoy in a long time.
> I don't put much stock in holidays because each day has the potential of being interesting but this one I like. It doesn't help that I tend to appreciate all sorts of wintery things.
> 
> I tend to be hypnotized by decorations with bright lights on them. Sucks for my eyes.


haha yeah... here (south), where it's normally humid-like-jungle weather--with the one soul-saving exception being winter, where it gets blessedly cold... will be in the 70's all week... whomp-whomp... 

which is slightly odd, as the past two winters it's actually snowed quite a bit. no one was ready for it of course, and everyone acted like an idiot (getting stranded, having to be saved left and right for what amounted to about 4 inches of snow)... 

at least it will be raining all week. the best kind of weather.


----------



## cinnabun

ripley said:


> Because you can't bury people under other people.


----------



## Golden Rose

Donovan said:


> haha yeah... here (south), where it's normally humid-like-jungle weather--with the one soul-saving exception being winter, where it gets blessedly cold... will be in the 70's all week... whomp-whomp...
> 
> which is slightly odd, as the past two winters it's actually snowed quite a bit. no one was ready for it of course, and everyone acted like an idiot (getting stranded, having to be saved left and right for what amounted to about 4 inches of snow)...
> 
> at least it will be raining all week. the best kind of weather.


I like rain too, if we can't have snow at least this makes up for it.
The weather here is extremely bipolar, swinging from 47° to a whopping 60° in a couple days.
Not as bad as in the south but still odd considering I'm way up north. 

Atmospheric ambiance or not, it's definitely going to be a good Christmas. 
Things keep evolving in a solid way under every aspect although my vision always knew. 
Paperwork isn't an issue. My studies/career prospects seem back on the right track too.

I haven't seen much snow in a long time, except for last year when I was in Austria for work.


----------



## Animal

ripley said:


> MMM and she have never even kissed and he was upfront about seeing zero future.


It perplexes me when people stick around after someone asserts that they see no future, or rejects them in any way. It amazes me every time. In some cases it strikes me as honest and heartfelt in a way I could never be. In others, it strikes me as being a doormat.

If someone rejects me in a compassionate fashion, I let him go, without much ado, and deal with my feelings alone. I do not stay in touch at that point. I'm done. I don't try to win people back or influence their decision under the guise of friendship. Either we're together or we're not. Friendship may resume when both parties have moved on.

In some cases, I have seen the problems with our connection too, so I move on easily. In others, when I feel rejected or slighted by someone, I want to hurt him by displaying indifference, showing him that he means even less to me than I meant to him. I inflict suffering by making it very easy to walk away. I won't gratify a rejection with "But I love you." or "Why? Why don't you feel anything?" If he comes after me hoping for attention, I find ways to make him suffer.

I interpret "I see no future," "I'm in love with someone else," ignoring me, avoiding me, etc, as rejection. It is likely I have interpreted rejections where they weren't intended. Yet my response is to make them suffer- every time. If someone rejected me.. then he has to suffer the consequence of my disengagement. In some cases I display my excellence in venues where I know he will see it, so he will feel like shit seeing that I'm amazing and happier without him.

What I can't understand, for the life of me, is how some people can stomach slights over and over, and continue expressing their feelings. I can be endlessly patient when no decision has been made yet, when one or both parties are wrestling with honest issues. And following a rejection, I often have a lot of feelings which I explore privately or artistically. But it is unforgivable to share my vulnerable feelings with someone who has rejected me or sidelined me, no matter what the reasoning is. If someone is curious to know how I feel after he slights me, he can check my music page and dissect the lyrics. He better prepare himself to stomach some soul-cutting insults... or songs about men who were much better than he could ever hope to be.

I am not claiming to be virtuous. There is tremendous virtue in being honest with one's feelings regardless of the cost or the response, and where real love is concerned, I admire that. Some of my deepest regrets result from having too much pride to voice my feelings in situations where I might have been rejected. I would probably still have been rejected, but if I allowed myself to purge out my feelings, I might have saved myself a lot of 'what-ifs' and heartache.


As it stands, only one man on this planet has seen my heart and soul laid bare. The man I am about to marry. I would take any risk for him, and I told him that if he ever leaves me I will beg. He is worth more to me than my pride, my fear, my shame, or my power.


----------



## mimesis

@_Animal_ I just found out my attention span today barely exceeds 140 characters


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Hmm, rejection.

I find that if someone doesn't show much interest in the first place, then I'm unlikely to feel very interested myself. I mean, it can be deliberate too, if I know someone is unavailable I can think "okay, no point falling for this person." I've found that if I'm already attached enough though, I might not be able to deal well at all, even to the point of contemplating how doable kidnapping would be. =P Stockholm syndrome is acceptable for me I guess.


----------



## 6007

I've avoided showcasing my connection with infj on social media because it's private but also because I was trying to prevent an in your face situation with Jareth. 

I dropped him after two breaks and I was fervently praying he'd find someone else. 

Well... It has been brought to my attention he has. 
I was not pleased with my friend for telling me. 
There is a reason I ended up cutting ties with him. And I asked her to never tell me about him again. I don't care to know. 

So yes he found a blonde tacky girl (I saw her picture once before, passably attractive but in a cheap dress, and he probably "loves" her so much because he's really good at phoning it in) who I hope will be more compatible to him. She looks fun and outgoing and I think she looks like a much better match than my dark and introverted ass. 

But I actually tried to be respectful and not throw infj in his nor el Diablo's face. I didn't want to come off in any way as inconsiderate nor flaunt something sacred. So I made a choice to be quiet about it until it felt right. 

I ended up cutting Jareth out when he texted me one day and I dropped my phone as if electrocuted. I don't need that in my life. 

He reminds me of a blend of my ex husband and the guy who raped me in a huge blond package. And he's ugly. Gorgeous smile but too ugly in the face. Ugh. He's the what was I thinking guy I tried to avoid but he wouldn't let go.


----------



## Philathea

I really thought he was the one. And I'm not an idiot; I don't think every boy is the one. This was the first time in my life I really felt like I could connect with someone, and I mean that. I don't even let myself hope..

I didn't think it was possible, but then I felt that with him. I let myself make this one exception, and I let myself believe I could truly be close to him. Such stupid dreams. I wish I hadn't let anything touch me. It really meant something to me.

I always wanted to feel more human, but he didn't make me feel more human. I felt like he was...whatever it is that I am. It felt like I was finally speaking English.. or he was speaking my own language. It just felt so real. I was no longer untranslatable. He could speak it and understand me, or so I thought.. And I felt depressed about it, because I could connect with him-- but he could connect with everyone. 

But now he's gotten too close, and now all the stupid dreams have shattered and shown themselves as what really are.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

Something to lighten the mood:

"A great Being or Power was traveling through the sky, his foot was on a kind of lightning as a wheel is on a rail, it was his pathway. The lightning was made entirely of the spirits of innumerable people close to one another, and I was one of them. He moved in a straight line, and each part of the streak or flash came into its short conscious existence only that he might travel. I seemed to be directly under the foot of God, and I thought he was grinding his own life up out of my pain. Then I saw that what he had been trying with all his might to do was to change his course, to bend the line of lightning to which he was tied, in the direction in which he wanted to go. I felt my flexibility and helplessness, and knew that he would succeed. He bended me, turning his corner by means of my hurt, hurting me more than I had ever been hurt in my life, and at the acutest point of this, as he passed, I said. I understood for a moment things that I have now forgotten, things that no one could remember while retaining sanity. The angle was an obtuse angle, and I remember thinking as I woke that had he made it a right or acute angle, I should have both suffered and ' seen ' still more, and should probably have died."

"He went on and I came to. In that moment the whole of my life passed before me, including each little meaningless piece of distress, and I understood them. This was what it had all meant, this was the piece of work it had all been contributing to do. I did not see God's purpose, I only saw his intentness and his entire relentlessness towards his means. He thought no more of me than a man thinks of hurting a cork when he is ripening wine, or hurting a cartridge when he is firing."


----------



## 6007

Just realized something about sex that is obvious and even though I'm passably intelligent... It escaped my attention until now. 

I have no idea when I am dragging some guy into my sex den what it means to him. 
Sex is so... Odd. It creates actual life. It's like reality if reality were theater. Heightened reality. It's as simple as connecting bodies and as complex as uniting souls and burning off karma or emotional wounds. It is traumatic and it is cathartic and healing. 
And sometimes you won't know what it will be until it happens. 
No matter how sensible or careful you are, you simply cannot predict what someone else is feeling or what they will do, if you haven't observed them closely for years... And each person triggers sides of individuals you can't predict either. 

So when I drag the infj to bed, I'm fucking him, his past, his wounds, his ego, and every single thing that created who he is now. I have no way of knowing what it means to him nor how it will impact him, and that is really weird to ponder.


----------



## Ace Face

Some lady named Emma at United Airlines just pulled a rabbit out of her ass to make me happy. When a customer service agent goes above and beyond for the people he/she is serving, it is only fair to let them know how much you appreciate them by calling the corporate hotline to leave a compliment. I may even send this bitch a gift basket if possible. Emma, wherever you are, I love you and you're the fucking bomb, baby.


----------



## 6007

I've fantasized about hopping on a plane to punch certain people in the face. 
It would be worth the money. 

I don't do it because apparently it's bad form to hit others, but some people I really wanna hit with a bat a couple times.


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> Because you can't bury people under other people.


I might reference genocide as a counterexample.

Anyway...



> I hesitate to ask if maybe part of this is missing her original boyfriend... Who was a rebound from her ex husband of 14 years...


She sounds like a complicated one. But it seems like she is needing to learn the truth you presented, it's a step in her evolution somewhere and she's going through the thought processes necessary to do it.

I would maybe ask her what her end goal is here, if she has something in mind for what she wants in life and romance. Working with her until she formulates that more seriously than "I want xyz characteristics" and more nonspecifically than "I want MMM" might help her to realize what she's looking for and firm her commitment to finding and attaining it.


----------



## drmiller100

FearAndTrembling said:


> Something to lighten the mood:
> 
> "A great Being or Power was traveling through the sky, his foot was on a kind of lightning as a wheel is on a rail, it was his pathway. The lightning was made entirely of the spirits of innumerable people close to one another, and I was one of them. He moved in a straight line, and each part of the streak or flash came into its short conscious existence only that he might travel. I seemed to be directly under the foot of God, and I thought he was grinding his own life up out of my pain. Then I saw that what he had been trying with all his might to do was to change his course, to bend the line of lightning to which he was tied, in the direction in which he wanted to go. I felt my flexibility and helplessness, and knew that he would succeed. He bended me, turning his corner by means of my hurt, hurting me more than I had ever been hurt in my life, and at the acutest point of this, as he passed, I said. I understood for a moment things that I have now forgotten, things that no one could remember while retaining sanity. The angle was an obtuse angle, and I remember thinking as I woke that had he made it a right or acute angle, I should have both suffered and ' seen ' still more, and should probably have died."
> 
> "He went on and I came to. In that moment the whole of my life passed before me, including each little meaningless piece of distress, and I understood them. This was what it had all meant, this was the piece of work it had all been contributing to do. I did not see God's purpose, I only saw his intentness and his entire relentlessness towards his means. He thought no more of me than a man thinks of hurting a cork when he is ripening wine, or hurting a cartridge when he is firing."



That is fucking cool. 

I am god, and I am trying to change my path, and I am fucking everyone else's life up while I do it.

where is it from?
edit: Found it.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

drmiller100 said:


> That is fucking cool.
> 
> I am god, and I am trying to change my path, and I am fucking everyone else's life up while I do it.
> 
> where is it from?
> edit: Found it.


The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James. It documents many religious/mystical experiences. The guy who had that experience was on ether. It was a section on "anaesthetic revelation". This was actually somewhat of a movement that thought those drugs were a gateway to a higher truth. It also struck me as interesting because Philip Dick also wrote some really crazy shit on those drugs too. 

"Often people claim to remember past lives," prolific science fiction author Philip K. Dick once said. "I claim to remember a different, very different, present life."

In 1974, after some dental treatments, he had visions while coming out of the anesthetic that lasted several months. "I experienced an invasion of my mind by a transcendentally rational mind, as if I had been insane all my life and suddenly I had become sane," he said. These visions consisted of laser beams, Jesus, and ancient Rome. They've become famously known as 2-3-74, for the dates he experienced them, and Phil spent much of the rest of his life trying to decipher them, convinced these specific hallucinations out of his whole life held the answers he'd always been seeking.

It is similar to Hegel's philosophy, which James noted. That is similar to how Hegel sees the world. As this world spirit that nobody controls. We are all apart of it and being bent to its mindless will. Which is true metaphorically at least. lol. James also tried these drugs and said Hegel started making sense then.


----------



## 6007

I like that my infj will exchange air while kissing for as long as I want. 
Most people have very specific ideas of what kissing is like or how it should go; I am a much more playful kisser than anyone I've ever met. Squeeze was a close second. Infj is my equal maybe. Hmmmmmmmm. 

Infj and I breathe into and inhale each other until we get high and weird. 

It is amazing


----------



## Golden Rose

Flatlander said:


> I would maybe ask her what her end goal is here, if she has something in mind for what she wants in life and romance. Working with her until she formulates that more seriously than "I want xyz characteristics" and more nonspecifically than "I want MMM" might help her to realize what she's looking for and firm her commitment to finding and attaining it.


Good advice. 

I think that most people need others to help them understand their experiences and be presented with facts. However, it isn't easy to find a way to do so without unintentionally triggering some emotional reaction. Being able to strike that specific balance while allowing the person to explore their own thoughts, needs and fears is something extremely powerful.

I believe that a mixture of directions and free will is the best solution.


----------



## 6007

Flatlander said:


> I might reference genocide as a counterexample.
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> She sounds like a complicated one. But it seems like she is needing to learn the truth you presented, it's a step in her evolution somewhere and she's going through the thought processes necessary to do it.
> 
> I would maybe ask her what her end goal is here, if she has something in mind for what she wants in life and romance. Working with her until she formulates that more seriously than "I want xyz characteristics" and more nonspecifically than "I want MMM" might help her to realize what she's looking for and firm her commitment to finding and attaining it.


She is a weird mixture of self aware and oblivious. 
It makes for some interesting conversations. 
Through her various self delusions and posturing I can see a pattern evolving.


----------



## Rala

I think I fell asleep around 5 AM. I woke up around 7:30 AM feeling frightened, but without knowing why. I remember I woke up feeling the same last night and then I knew: I had a nightmare. It wasn't even a nightmare. Hell, it wasn't even a scary dream, but still I woke up feeling so scared that I had to think about what I dreamed to install all that information in my mind forever and I did not go back to sleep. It was a "slap in the face" kind of dream. I guess I needed that in order to start paying more attention to my dreams. And now that I do, I feel like I was living with my demons at my side all this time, except they live in a different dimension, different reality. I met them last night too, but I'll start with the dream I had just a few hours ago.
I was some place near the entrance of some woods, after I had taken a different path than the one I was supposed to take, the one I was familiar with (just being the usual counter-everything me). There was someone there in the woods (girl or boy, I am not sure) and there was someone else that felt more like a guiding voice even though they were human and standing right beside me outside the woods. This person that was with me then threw something that looked like a red ball in the woods and told the girl/boy to go and grab it and then come out of there. I could see them trying, running after it but the ball was rolling faster and faster deep in the woods. I was watching it all in terror and, at some point, I decided to take a few steps into the woods and then I found myself telling this person "Go, hurry up, you are not alone, I am here with you, don't be scared". But after a few moments, after seeing the person trying in vain, I got out of the woods, afraid to stay there for long OR go any deeper into it even though it was daylight; there was just a dangerous scent in the air about everything. Then I turned around and asked the person beside me "why am I so afraid of the woods?" and they said exactly this: "Because you are afraid of your childhood". I don't think I even realized exactly what they said to me then, but I did when I woke up and it hit me hard. Though I didn't cry yet 'cause I am still in a bit of a shock and I feel numb anyway. Then I remember running very fast, not stopping when faces in my dream looked like they were really angry with me. What the fuck were they angry about, I can't remember. I didn't care. I would have asked, but all I could think about was "get the fuck out of my way, bitch, I am running for my life though no one is actually following me".
I was thinking a few days ago about how I barely remember my dreams and how I can't make sense of them when I know there are important messages in dreams. I was complaining, but I wasn't even trying to pay attention. And here I am now, slapped in the face with a message as clear as daylight. I didn't even have to try to decipher it all and this is what scares me the most. This dream led me to remember the dream I had one night before, but that one was scary as fuck. It started with me thinking I was traveling. I was somewhere in a very weird country, it was a poor and wild one. I grabbed a map to look at the continent I thought I had traveled to, but it looked nothing like the actual map, it was different, I wasn't able to figure out where I was. Then I had a quick thought: I was in a past life or so I felt in the dream. I didn't like anything about it so I started crying. The world and the people there were violent and cruel. There were kids that looked paralyzed with fear, they were beaten and their faces were burned. There were injured people everywhere. I felt unsafe. I remember there was also this person who was burned all over their body, there was no flesh anymore, and a doctor was trying to keep them alive. I recall thinking to myself "why doesn't he just let them die, I wouldn't want to live like that if I were them, I would want people to just let me die." 
If everyone and everything in a dream is an aspect of yourself, even the settings, then that zombie of a man was me as well. Dead inside and scarred for life. In the dream, I wished I could do something to help those kids, but they were all holding their mothers' hand and I was just an outsider. And, plus, I know now that kindness would have probably scared them away, just as it scares me away, as it strange as that sounds. I don't know where to look for myself anymore.


----------



## 6007

Infj has taken to calling me his. ("Mine")

this makes me uncomfortable. 
People don't belong to each other.
while he has exclusive rights to my sexual energy (which already seems a weird fucking thing to me), I belong solely to myself. 

i am not sure how this will pan out down the road but I suppose I'll find out. 

my concern is that I am actually a solo type who can be monogamous but not monogamous like other people. I am my
own primary partner. Anyone else is my
side bitch.


----------



## cinnabun

What is it with your friends and assuming everyone wants a piece of you? Seriously. Dunno who's worse, them or my mum. Nobody can breathe near me without them wanting me, is this like the law of best friends?? xD

Also I look sexy as fuck potato right now. Life is good. I don't even care about the calories, shove it all in mah mouth. I'll care once Nee Year is passed. Need to look good for my birthday.

Life is good. I'm a happy lil potato.


----------



## 6007

I am pretty sure I'm not monogamous. 
I'm going to try it out because I am in love and that is sort of his thing but, all things being honest and what not...
It isn't even that I want to fuck anyone else. 
I just want to be a free agent and not answer to anyone. 
And if I *want* to have someone suck my tongue and feel me up, why shouldn't I do that. 
Cripes. 


Eh maybe this is what it means to be a person anyway. There is always a compromise. Life is never ever perfect. 

I guess it's ok when I think of it like that actually.


----------



## kaleidoscope

Had a dream about him last night. It was so warm and comfortable, so familiar.. it broke my heart. I find myself tearing up whenever I think about the details of it. We were walking in this type of fair place, and my arm was around his, and I could feel his warmth and that feeling of safety I always felt when I was with him. And the physical sensations were so real and vivid, just the size/height difference between us, the feeling of the fabric of his shirt, his voice. And we were just walking, talking and laughing, and just enjoying each other's presence. 

I wish things were that easy.


----------



## 6007

Aquarius is by far my favorite zodiac sign. 
I don't mean to believe in it but fuck. 
Every best friend I've ever had is an Aquarius. 
And while I've always thought Aquarius men were too emotional and moody for me, they suit me a lot better than any others. 

Grrr it is stupid to believe in that crap damn my human brain constructing patterns against my will


----------



## Donovan

kaleidoscope said:


> Had a dream about him last night. It was so warm and comfortable, so familiar.. it broke my heart. I find myself tearing up whenever I think about the details of it. We were walking in this type of fair place, and my arm was around his, and I could feel his warmth and that feeling of safety I always felt when I was with him. And the physical sensations were so real and vivid, just the size/height difference between us, the feeling of the fabric of his shirt, his voice. And we were just walking, talking and laughing, and just enjoying each other's presence.
> 
> I wish things were that easy.


you don't have to answer this, but:


can you explain the difference between the mood you typed out, and the picture you posted? i'm assuming the two go together...?

is that picture "warm"/etc. for you, or, is it just what "he"/"it" is doing in way, with your emotions?


again, personal i know, don't feel compelled.


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> Aquarius is by far my favorite zodiac sign.
> I don't mean to believe in it but fuck.
> Every best friend I've ever had is an Aquarius.
> And while I've always thought Aquarius men were too emotional and moody for me, they suit me a lot better than any others.
> 
> Grrr it is stupid to believe in that crap damn my human brain constructing patterns against my will


are you a leo? or do you know where your moon, your rising, venus or IC are?


----------



## Rala

Donovan said:


> are you a leo? or do you know where your moon, your rising, venus or IC are?


Where are your moon and your venus?


----------



## 6007

Donovan said:


> are you a leo? or do you know where your moon, your rising, venus or IC are?


Aquarius 
virgo rising
cap moon
venus in saggitarius
jupiter in Leo (if memory serves)


----------



## 6007

Met a friend of a friend yesterday. 
She is not a lesbian but some things I mentioned in passing led her to offer me three way sex with her and her lover when he returns. Casually. But still. Offer of sex. In front of another friend. 

I have always had the ability to make people aware of how horny they are.


----------



## Donovan

Rala said:


> Where are your moon and your venus?


my moon is in sagittarius, my venus is in leo. 

your own?


----------



## Rala

Donovan said:


> my moon is in sagittarius, my venus is in leo.
> 
> your own?


FIRE SIGNS :crazy:

My moon and venus are both in aries.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

*attention gets piqued by the astrology talk* 

<_<


----------



## Rala

Distortions said:


> *attention gets piqued by the astrology talk*
> 
> <_<


*doesn't give a fuck*


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Rala said:


> *doesn't give a fuck*


Enough to respond, though.


----------



## Rala

Distortions said:


> Enough to respond, though.


I give a fuck about letting people know I don't actually give a fuck, yes.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Rala said:


> I give a fuck about letting people know I don't actually give a fuck, yes.


Yeah, if you genuinely didn't give a fuck you'd just ignore me. So to be honest I'm confused why you even responded to me in the first place.


----------



## Rala

Distortions said:


> Yeah, if you genuinely didn't give a fuck you'd just ignore me. So to be honest I'm confused why you even responded to me in the first place.


Because I failed to see why you'd think anyone would care about you being annoyed by the astrology talk. It was a short one, anyway.


----------



## drmiller100

ripley said:


> I'm like...
> did you miss the part where I explained I'm not submissive?
> so can you maybe stop trying to Top me? That would be great.


maybe you haven't found the right dom yet????? 

LAUGHING!!!!! Just kidding.........


----------



## 6007

Donovan said:


> this to me has always been a struggle (i say 'always' when in reality i am referencing one "relationship", but it's something i picked up on in a prior 'ship', and is something i could have called before hand; and, can call with hypotheticals as well if something random [in this case, an interesting person] occurs to me or pops into my head within my 'sphere')...
> 
> i wouldn't say that i'm dominant, as i like for that to trade throughout a relationship--of any sort. but, i have been with women who were more assertive, less feeling oriented, and i can tell that they at once do not want to be "dominated" (for lack of a better word), but at the same time... _do?_
> 
> i really can't put my finger on it.
> i can't tell if they "want to" because there's a part of them that they believe must conform based off of biological "role", and that this is a portion of their life where they don't yet have the experience to delineate outer-opinions & views, from what they themselves want/are comfortable with/and just _are_ essentially, in their nature...?
> 
> it can be kind of awkward, because i can pick up on discomfort but cannot pinpoint if it's because they have a hard time viewing themselves in such a role, or because they just dislike it.
> it's like they're a little more masculine than the normal woman (default thinking + extroversion), and have to feel weird by now being more vulnerable, or feel weird by being something they are actually not?
> 
> i realize this is convoluted, but i am quite high and/or drunk at the moment, and just realized how layered this all is. or, how layered it would actually be once applied to people who fit into this category.
> 
> anyhow, this just hit on a vein i've experienced in life.


i enjoyed reading this, although my original post was about a person I've never even slept with because he's a dominant, or self proclaimed one, and I'm a primal Top with switch tendencies. My approach to sex defaults to Top, but when it comes down to it I'm versatile, but not at all a true submissive. I can't contact that mindspace and find it aggravating to be dominated for longer than a little while. It actually annoys me. 

The guy just got too assertive with me in email and I kind of wanted to tear out his throat.


----------



## 6007

drmiller100 said:


> maybe you haven't found the right dom yet?????
> 
> LAUGHING!!!!! Just kidding.........


Ahahahaaaaaaaa! Lol. <3

Sure I have, under my heel after I leashed him and put him on his knees in a frilly dress.


----------



## drmiller100

Once upon a time I was at a bar. There was an acquaintence there, lets call her MH. she is full on bull ****. We were talking.....

me: I hear you are a lesbian.
her: Yup.
me: you don't like cock? 
her: Nope.
me: Maybe you've never found the right one (with a smile.....)
her: rolls her eyes, and shakes her head at me.......

5minutes later, enough time, everyone is drunk....

Her: So you're straight. 
me: Yup.
her: do you like other dicks?
me: nope.
her: Maybe you've never found the right one..... (with a smile....)
me: full on belly laugh which stopped the bar......


----------



## 6007

drmiller100 said:


> maybe you haven't found the right dom yet?????
> 
> LAUGHING!!!!! Just kidding.........


I got entangled with a guy who is a default Dom and it was odd for me letting him Top me. I had to talk to my life coach about it. 
It made me really weirded out with myself. 
Eventually i got bored and annoyed because he wasn't versatile enough for me and while he could let me Top him he didn't like it. 
Likewise I could let him Top me but I didn't like it. 
It was a real eye opening experience for me though. 
I had suspected I had dominant tendencies since I was a teenager when I first became interested in female dominance, but thought maybe it was just an idea or fancy and not really who I was. 
Now I know. Lol. I don't have a submissive bone in my body. I can have aggressive choke out of control
sex but I don't want to ever be put in a subspace. Oh god no.


----------



## drmiller100

ripley said:


> Ithought maybe it was just an idea or fancy and not really who I was.
> Now I know. Lol. I don't have a submissive bone in my body. I can have aggressive choke out of control
> sex but I don't want to ever be put in a subspace. Oh god no.


I can be pretty damn happy with non D/s sex with plenty of variety, and I can be pretty happy with D/s sex, but l can't be a sub....


----------



## 6007

drmiller100 said:


> I can be pretty damn happy with non D/s sex with plenty of variety, and I can be pretty happy with D/s sex, but l can't be a sub....


I like dealing in major energetic shifts but that is one energetic shift I can't make myself. Gives me the willies even imagining it. 
Might consider it with my infj but if he required me to sub out I don't think I can. My brain just goes NOPE contemplating it.


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> I have never seen you but I am positive with that brain you could work this shit out.
> 
> Had a depraved Xmas last year and am taking a breather this year.


I had someone in mind, and I think she's interested in me back, but she's a coworker and I really don't want to risk repercussions over here. It's frustrating.


----------



## Luck

Donovan said:


> ...i have been with women who were more assertive, less feeling oriented, and i can tell that they at once do not want to be "dominated" (for lack of a better word), but at the same time... _do?_
> 
> i really can't put my finger on it.
> i can't tell if they "want to" because there's a part of them that they believe must conform based off of biological "role", and that this is a portion of their life where they don't yet have the experience to delineate outer-opinions & views, from what they themselves want/are comfortable with/and just _are_ essentially, in their nature...?
> 
> it can be kind of awkward, because i can pick up on discomfort but cannot pinpoint if it's because they have a hard time viewing themselves in such a role, or because they just dislike it.
> it's like they're a little more masculine than the normal woman (default thinking + extroversion), and have to feel weird by now being more vulnerable, or feel weird by being something they are actually not?...


Reading this was fascinating to me. I'm an INTJ ('masculine' less feeling type personality) female going through this now in a new r/ship. I was unaware that this is a thing. Or that anyone could pick up on it. For me, it's the feeling vulnerable aspect that's weird. That I'm not 'submissive' in life generally (I'm highly assertive) but am to some extent anyway in this particular r/ship, especially sexually, doesn't bother me. I don't see it as a role society expects of me due to biology either (if anything I feel the opposite pressure, to not be submissive -- other women will look down on me for it. Not that I care).

I'm at a point where I "just am essentially (submissive) in my nature" with him. Although it feels like this nature of mine was only unlocked so to speak bc of who he is as a person (worthy of my trust and respect and is more 'masculine' and 'dominant' than me). I have never had this response with anyone else I've dated before although one ex did call me "sexually submissive" one time and I was shocked to be called that and moreover, after I thought about it more, resented it being sensed. I had not behaved that way with that person. And nor would I ever.

Even now in this ideal r/ship where it's out in the open and it feels right and I knew him as a close friend first for years, I still struggle with feeling vulnerable. I don't know why that is. I can guess bc being out of control is new to me and is inherently vulnerable. Maybe it has more to do with being exposed/open in a deeper way than normal. Whatever the reason I assume it's natural to feel this way and I trust that in time the uncomfortable vulnerable feeling will eventually pass (or I'll change).

I've heard things like INTJ women need unusually masculine men (perhaps that's true for many female rationals). I'm dubious as to how universal this phenomenon is but regardless it's impressive to me that someone picked up on it, especially when it seems as though we try to keep it hidden (apparently most successfully from ourselves). Perhaps it's an age thing, I didn't want to know about this during my willful 20s but am ready to deal with reality at 30.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Rala said:


> I don't give a fuck and I am still going to respond. Indeed, I did care that she assumed I will actually care that she got annoyed by the astrology talk I did. Or else why would she post that? I just didn't understand it, I saw it as pointless. But I don't care that she gets annoyed by it.There's the difference as I had already explained it.


Except I wasn't annoyed (as I already said. I never said that I was annoyed, I said that my interest was piqued, in the sense that is the opposite of annoyed, which I think shouldn't have been too hard a possibility to consider instead of just knee-jerking), and I wasn't even specifically responding to you, so your original reaction to me was just entirely irrational and unnecessary. Clearly it's pointless to try to explain any of this to you, though, as you're clearly too busy violently burrowing your head further and further up your own ass to be capable of understanding anything, so yeah, you have fun with all that "not caring" and ass-burrowing of yours.


----------



## cinnabun

Flatlander said:


> A sexual Christmas sounds amazing. I would like one of those.


If only xD.



Flatlander said:


> I had someone in mind, and I think she's interested in me back, but she's a coworker and I really don't want to risk repercussions over here. It's frustrating.



I know EXACTLY how you feel. I'm going through the same struggles :sad:.


----------



## Gorgon

2015 was one of the most variegated and tumultuous year I have ever experienced. Back in 2014, I thought I was ready for 2015, ready to take the horns by the reigns. At first glance, it was anything but. I had two medical withdrawals from school due to mental illness, a stint in the psychiatric ward, and fired from two jobs for job abandonment. Those events didn't even cover the internal landscape I constructed. It was also the year that I met my current significant other, read a shit ton of books and academic articles, and underwent (and still in the process of) a significant existential movement.

2015 stands out for its transformative significance. I died and resurrected many times, and I will continue to repeat the cycle many times over. 2015 made realize how ungrounded and phenomenologically uncomfortable I was in the world. Due to this position, I have felt tremendous dread and insecurity about living and my place in this world. Suicide was always at the back of my mind as it was a permanent recess from the dread, angst, rage, and emptiness. However, I now recognize that I do have a calling in life, and it is something that I want to passionately fulfill.

This was the year where I also learned to value myself. It took some hard knocks to get there, and I still don't feel entirely secure with myself, but I'm on a better path. My partner was a huge factor in helping me see my value, that I am fine the way I am. Unfortunately, the perfectionist in me always thinks I'm not good enough and not worth loving. I have a long ways to go.

This was the year where I had to come to terms with myself, and to continually do so. A year where I had to look at myself straight in the face and examine what kind of person I wanted to be and who I really was deep down. The disconnect troubles me. However, is the disconnect a function of unrealistic expectations or a deep flaw in my character? Will I ever reach that ideal or is just a pipe dream?

I don't know about 2016 to be honest. I don't what to expect or what to look forward to or dread. I just hope by the time 2016 ends, I won't look back with too many regrets.


----------



## 6007

Flatlander said:


> I had someone in mind, and I think she's interested in me back, but she's a coworker and I really don't want to risk repercussions over here. It's frustrating.


Arg. :/

it is difficult enough for me to find people interesting in the first place... To not be able to act on it... 
That sucks.


----------



## 6007

Everyone: the word "piqued" has two meanings, one of which means "to be annoyed." The other means "to be interested."

does this help? Not sure...

but I AM RIPLEY and I am Here to Help. 


Bwahahahaaaaaa


----------



## 6007

My delicious caramel skinned brown eyed man is going to be in my arms very soon. 
Sigh. 

He is so lovely. 

So so so lovely. 

He is the type of male beauty that other men can't even slight. 

Dead Robot was almost aggressively plain faced. Jareth was sort of ugly. Lovely smile though and very shiny hair. Mr Squeeze was exceptionally lovely, with odd thinning frizzy hair... Practically my twin except the thin hair part... El Diablo was ugly handsome, looked somewhat like Jesse Pinkman from breaking bad mixed with a furby. 

This guy... Hm. He doesn't look like anyone else. 

yet at certain times in his life he resembled an actual stereotype. Like, he cultivated an exact image and became the coolest version of that thing. And he deliberately lets people think he's nothing more than the image to filter everyone else out and test them. 

I barely knew him and he was determined to roll over for me. 

This is so odd to me.

I am pretty sure he's an infj, and if so, they always seem to choose others. And he just chose me. 

I didnt even try.


----------



## Rala

Distortions said:


> Except I wasn't annoyed (as I already said. I never said that I was annoyed, I said that my interest was piqued, in the sense that is the opposite of annoyed, which I think shouldn't have been too hard a possibility to consider instead of just knee-jerking), and I wasn't even specifically responding to you, so your original reaction to me was just entirely irrational and unnecessary. Clearly it's pointless to try to explain any of this to you, though, as you're clearly too busy violently burrowing your head further and further up your own ass to be capable of understanding anything, so yeah, you have fun with all that "not caring" and ass-burrowing of yours.


Oh, what a surprise, the vague girl is being more specific. If you would have actually explained what it was exactly what you meant after you realized I got it wrong, then this wouldn't have gone on and on. But no, you had no fucking intention to solve it, you just sat there being passive aggressive. No, you were not responding to me, hence the passive aggression. It was you who was unclear and I don't fucking understand what @Flatlander thinks I was unclear about. By "piqued" I understood that you were irritated by it. I felt like telling you I didn't give a fuck. How is that irrational and unnecessary? If there's someone people can't accuse me of is not trying to understand and solve things. I always do. That's why I start "conflicts" in the first place.


----------



## 6007

I'm talking to someone on fb for a few weeks now (strictly friends, not romantic) and he isn't very bright.

i am fairly certain my intelligence level is average, yet most people I meet provide little to no challenge for me.
i love when people are interesting but most of the time they are... Uninspired and not clever.
and they have no idea they are being boring. 
Then I take these observations and look at myself and wonder when I'm being boring and insipid, because everything I say about others applies to me, but I actually find my own mind challenging. 

I ask interesting questions (to me) and I hold opposing viewpoints. I don't let media tell me what is right. I think for myself. These are all my values, however, and they are not the truth. Just my opinion. 

I do find myself wondering if people are just bad at articulating or are sort of dumb. 
It IS hard to find words, so I try not to be too harsh.


----------



## 6007

I'm disappointed I didn't get the magazine subscription or car ornament I asked for for Xmas. 
I am not the type who puts up a wish list as a suggestion... That is actually what I fucking want. 
Dead Robot the ISTJ 9 didn't figure that out until I whacked him over the head with the facts. 
It was my idea to wish list, and i would shop directly from his, meanwhile getting nothing on mine.
took two Xmas for me to see the pattern and ask for clarification. 
"I thought that was just a suggestion."
No dude, that is what I want. 

Told the guy everything I wanted point fucking blank and it never once worked for me. 
I said "I want and need compliments" from the beginning of dating. 
In 14 years he never figured it the fuck out. I could repeat that forever, the dude had pudding in his ears and sawdust for a brain.


----------



## SimplyRivers

@ripley

You are confusing me.


----------



## 6007

SimplyRivers said:


> @_ripley_
> 
> You are confusing me.


how?
why?
how may I assist you today?


----------



## SimplyRivers

ripley said:


> how?
> why?
> how may I assist you today?


All your posts seemed random, and I didn't understand.


----------



## Flatlander

Rinnie said:


> If only xD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know EXACTLY how you feel. I'm going through the same struggles :sad:.


I can't decide whether it's better or worse being overseas. I mean damn, I could probably have brought her back to my hotel room. And had a nice night with her. Alone.

Fuck.

I wish I could have encountered her outside of work.


----------



## 6007

SimplyRivers said:


> All your posts seemed random, and I didn't understand.


They are random. That is the point. 
I post here to explore my brain noise. i follow one idea at a time. 

You have found this sufficiently Clarifiying. 

You are most welcome.


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> Everyone: the word "piqued" has two meanings, one of which means "to be annoyed." The other means "to be interested."
> 
> does this help? Not sure...
> 
> but I AM RIPLEY and I am Here to Help.
> 
> 
> Bwahahahaaaaaa


I believe what you're looking for is how the word is used in context. if it's used in a context where it deals with interest, i.e. "piqued my curiosity", it implies one is interested. if it's used in a way that's more personally oriented (Google uses '"she was piqued by his curtness"', note that it immediately goes after the subject 'she'), it implies annoyance.

To me, that means that it implies any subject it goes after is aroused, whether it's one's curiosity or oneself, the arousal being neutral but the implication changing based on the subject or the whole context.

I'm here to help too.


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> Arg. :/
> 
> it is difficult enough for me to find people interesting in the first place... To not be able to act on it...
> That sucks.


It wasn't entirely in a mental way. But I would like to pursue it nonetheless, for once in my life.


----------



## 6007

Flatlander said:


> I believe what you're looking for is how the word is used in context. if it's used in a context where it deals with interest, i.e. "piqued my curiosity", it implies one is interested. if it's used in a way that's more personally oriented (Google uses '"she was piqued by his curtness"', note that it immediately goes after the subject 'she'), it implies annoyance.
> 
> To me, that means that it implies any subject it goes after is aroused, whether it's one's curiosity or oneself, the arousal being neutral but the implication changing based on the subject or the whole context.
> 
> I'm here to help too.


If you reread the interaction it was clear one person was focusing on the annoyed version of the word, and the other was clearly stating she wasn't annoyed. 

I have a very good command of the language, as I'm a native English speaker and a writer. So I can see where things go wrong, and that is why I commented.

edited to add: unless you mean "you" in the general sense to bring clarity to others then yes carry on. I myself was not at all confused, because literate and possessing an at least average intelligence, not emotionally engaged, and a native English speaker.


----------



## 6007

Flatlander said:


> It wasn't entirely in a mental way. But I would like to pursue it nonetheless, for once in my life.


Arg why do things have to be complicated.


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> If you reread the interaction it was clear one person was focusing on the annoyed version of the word, and the other was clearly stating she wasn't annoyed.
> 
> I have a very good command of the language, as I'm a native English speaker and a writer. So I can see where things go wrong, and that is why I commented.


It helps to explain the details sometimes. If you don't, it's clear that it's relevant but it may be left unclear how or leave out things that could help them avoid the same misunderstanding next time.

Honestly I hadn't even thought of the base meaning of piqued, just that the context implied curiosity and not annoyance. American or average English speakers don't usually use it in the latter way.


----------



## 6007

Flatlander said:


> It helps to explain the details sometimes. If you don't, it's clear that it's relevant but it may be left unclear how or leave out things that could help them avoid the same misunderstanding next time.
> 
> Honestly I hadn't even thought of the base meaning of piqued, just that the context implied curiosity and not annoyance. American or average English speakers don't usually use it in the latter way.


It is funny you pointed this out because the piqued word jumped out at me immediately as seeming to indicate annoyance, particularly when followed by the text face thing (something like this <.< if memory serves).

I study language because I have often felt woefully inarticulate so I remember the fusty and old fashioned less common uses of words maybe.


----------



## 6007

Flatlander said:


> I can't decide whether it's better or worse being overseas. I mean damn, I could probably have brought her back to my hotel room. And had a nice night with her. Alone.
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> I wish I could have encountered her outside of work.


Is it possible you could game this situation so there aren't negative repercussions in your work?
people in small communities, such as work, can have personal intimacy and not necessarily have bad results...


----------



## drmiller100

Luck said:


> Reading this was fascinating to me. I'm an INTJ ('masculine' less feeling type personality) female going through this now in a new r/ship. I was unaware that this is a thing. Or that anyone could pick up on it. For me, it's the feeling vulnerable aspect that's weird. That I'm not 'submissive' in life generally (I'm highly assertive) but am to some extent anyway in this particular r/ship, especially sexually, doesn't bother me. .


There is a "thing", albeit pretty rare. "submissive women with dominant personalities". They show up on a forum on another site I'm on. 

Often INTJ or ENTJ, although ENFJ and ENFP also show up. I'm sure there are other types, but those are the most likely to post. 

The idea is in their day to day life they have learned they have the power to run things, and they are comfortable running things. Kid's lives, work teams, bills, all the stuff everyone does. On top of that, they are smart enough and powerful enough they run more than most. Team leaders, project managers, etc they are all capable of. 

There is an internal part of them who wants a strong, powerful man they can trust to submit to . TRUST is a huge deal. It takes a guy with at least as much power as they have, or pretty soon they end up running his life in addition to everything else. 
There is a sense inside they DO want to submit in the bedroom, for defined periods of time. 

Usually this "type" doesn't coalesce until their 40's or 50's. A very few figure it out in their 30's. 

I don't know if this helps.


----------



## drmiller100

ripley said:


> i am fairly certain my intelligence level is average, .


the average iq on this entire site is probably 122, well above average. 
you are not average.


----------



## 6007

drmiller100 said:


> There is a "thing", albeit pretty rare. "submissive women with dominant personalities". They show up on a forum on another site I'm on.
> 
> Often INTJ or ENTJ, although ENFJ and ENFP also show up. I'm sure there are other types, but those are the most likely to post.
> 
> The idea is in their day to day life they have learned they have the power to run things, and they are comfortable running things. Kid's lives, work teams, bills, all the stuff everyone does. On top of that, they are smart enough and powerful enough they run more than most. Team leaders, project managers, etc they are all capable of.
> 
> There is an internal part of them who wants a strong, powerful man they can trust to submit to . TRUST is a huge deal. It takes a guy with at least as much power as they have, or pretty soon they end up running his life in addition to everything else.
> There is a sense inside they DO want to submit in the bedroom, for defined periods of time.
> 
> Usually this "type" doesn't coalesce until their 40's or 50's. A very few figure it out in their 30's.
> 
> I don't know if this helps.


Not a type-driven comment but when I spoke to my life coach he mentioned it was likely cathartic for me to be dragged around the house by my hair and sexually bossed around because of my position in work and life. 
When I look at anyone else I can see how being so controlled or competent can lead to a personality needing a release.

Having been close friends with a female ENTJ I can say she wouldn't like a partner she can run roughshod. She loves strong personalities. ENTJ will trample others, they can't help it. I had to cut ties with Jareth because I have no patience for it at all, I don't want to constantly have to say no. Once is enough. I don't like being tested. 

I know an ENFJ woman who loves to have sub sex with her INTP partner. She is quite a force to be reckoned
with, and I would never peg her as a sub. But she *does* sort of have a vague fuzzy sex cult member vibe. (I think she's got nine and two in her tritype with nine as her primary type.)


----------



## 6007

drmiller100 said:


> the average iq on this entire site is probably 122, well above average.
> you are not average.


Eh just because the site attracts a certain level of intelligence doesn't mean some sneaky fuckers can't wander in, wearing a ridiculous outfit from the local trashcan.


----------



## mimesis

Rala said:


> Oh, what a surprise, the vague girl is being more specific. If you would have actually explained what it was exactly what you meant after you realized I got it wrong, then this wouldn't have gone on and on. But no, you had no fucking intention to solve it, you just sat there being passive aggressive. No, you were not responding to me, hence the passive aggression. It was you who was unclear and I don't fucking understand what <!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention -->
> @<span class="highlight"><i><a href="http://personalitycafe.com/member.php?u=33664" target="_blank">Flatlander</a></i></span>
> <!-- END TEMPLATE: dbtech_usertag_mention --> thinks I was unclear about. By "piqued" I understood that you were irritated by it. I felt like telling you I didn't give a fuck. How is that irrational and unnecessary? If there's someone people can't accuse me of is not trying to understand and solve things. I always do. That's why I start "conflicts" in the first place.


Why would someone need to explain when you already said you weren't bothered? Even after the suggestion was made in response that it seemed likely that you were bothered, you insisted that you weren't bothered.


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> It is funny you pointed this out because the piqued word jumped out at me immediately as seeming to indicate annoyance, particularly when followed by the text face thing (something like this <.< if memory serves).
> 
> I study language because I have often felt woefully inarticulate so I remember the fusty and old fashioned less common uses of words maybe.


The "<.<" she wrote was personally oriented, as if she was peeved at her interest being piqued by something. Seemed obvious to me, not sure why it wasn't to you. Perhaps a difference in how we read language, or people, or even just her. If you are a Ti dom, perhaps the assumptions of low Fe vs. mid Fi.



ripley said:


> Is it possible you could game this situation so there aren't negative repercussions in your work?
> people in small communities, such as work, can have personal intimacy and not necessarily have bad results...


Fe dom and she seems quite social so I'm really not sure. Not the best with people like that. I've thought of just trying it and then, if she accepts, telling her not to tell anyone with some good reasons why, I just don't want that to go bad places.


----------



## 6007

mimesis said:


> Why would someone need to explain when you already said you weren't bothered? Even after the suggestion was made in response that it seemed likely that you were bothered, you insisted that you weren't bothered.


Brendan Sullivan wasn't bothered by Robert Graves either.


----------



## 6007

Flatlander said:


> The "<.<" she wrote was personally oriented, as if she was peeved at her interest being piqued by something. Seemed obvious to me, not sure why it wasn't to you. Perhaps a difference in how we read language, or people, or even just her. If you are a Ti dom, perhaps the assumptions of low Fe vs. mid Fi.
> 
> 
> 
> Fe dom and she seems quite social so I'm really not sure. Not the best with people like that. I've thought of just trying it and then, if she accepts, telling her not to tell anyone with some good reasons why, I just don't want that to go bad places.


Nah my assumption was based entirely on the ensuing miscommunication between them, so it's hard for me to be totally objective. Had I read it as it happened my opinions may have been different. I was more looking at a mess and wondering how it occurred. Not that you are wrong it's just sort of hypothetical on my end. 

hmmm Fe Dom... She might not want everyone to know herself. Many people I've been involved with who use Fe are discreet, mine is inferior but I definitely don't kiss and tell except to completely removed parties. I think this is a call for you and your gut for sure, and if you can communicate your concerns to her and she actually listens to and values them... She could even be a regular lover. Hmmmm


----------



## Flatlander

drmiller100 said:


> the average iq on this entire site is probably 122, well above average.
> you are not average.


Did you get this from people's self-reported average, your own feel about people at this site, or what? I doubt there's real hard data to support your claim, though I'd be open to being shown wrong about that, and I tend to doubt people's self-reporting unless something else suggests it is accurate.


----------



## Flatlander

ripley said:


> Nah my assumption was based entirely on the ensuing miscommunication between them, so it's hard for me to be totally objective. Had I read it as it happened my opinions may have been different. I was more looking at a mess and wondering how it occurred. Not that you are wrong it's just sort of hypothetical on my end.


It played out this way...

Non made an interjection
R whatever misinterpreted the interjection
Non didn't realize R misinterpreted it and just refuted the overt intent of the statement
Argument continued until Non realized the misinterpretation and addressed it

I eventually came in to knock R out logically because the way she addressed things was sort of irritating and not straightforward. I tend to want to address intrinsic self-paradoxes, or toy with them, depending.

Etc.

I don't know. It appears to have occurred because of a contextual misunderstanding. Maybe I'm wrong and I saw it in a way most wouldn't, but I tend to have a good fix on how native English speakers reason about or use language, and considering alternatives just doesn't make sense to me here.



> hmmm Fe Dom... She might not want everyone to know herself. Many people I've been involved with who use Fe are discreet, mine is inferior but I definitely don't kiss and tell except to completely removed parties. I think this is a call for you and your gut for sure, and if you can communicate your concerns to her and she actually listens to and values them... She could even be a regular lover. Hmmmm


Perhaps. I think she is an ESFJ, judging by her manner, capabilities and thought processes, and I don't know about discreet for her, but I will give it a third thought when I'm back in town. I don't know why I want her but I'm pretty deprived and I think she is interested in me, even if she is an ESFJ from a touchy feely culture. The way she behaves toward me, the things she does, just seem to make it obvious.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Animal said:


> There has always been, and will always be hope, as long as you're not dead.
> 
> (Well, it's easy for me to say that.. but harder for me to believe it in my own life....)


Well, my problem is a bit different than yours used to be; while I too struggle with being loved; my main issue is my perception of my own inability to truly love another. I'm not sure if I just simply don't care anymore, enjoy my solitude so much I covet it greedily, or I really can't imagine having those kinds of feelings for anyone, or all of the above. Since I recovered from almost dying in 2009; something kind of died *inside* me and my heart just turned permanently cold. I don't know what it is but ever since then; I have been unable to really open up to anyone in any significant way.


----------



## Chesire Tower

I really don't think too much about astrology. As far as I'm concerned: so long as you don't involuntarily have someone's ascendant moon rising in Uranus; it's all good. ^_^


----------



## Gorgon

ripley said:


> i enjoyed reading this, although my original post was about a person I've never even slept with because he's a dominant, or self proclaimed one, and I'm a primal Top with switch tendencies. My approach to sex defaults to Top, but when it comes down to it I'm versatile, but not at all a true submissive. I can't contact that mindspace and find it aggravating to be dominated for longer than a little while. It actually annoys me.
> 
> The guy just got too assertive with me in email and I kind of wanted to tear out his throat.


Hahaha! I've met those domly doms who think they can make a submissive out of any woman even dominant females/tops. Dom female are just brats who need the right dom, and obviously they're the ones to do the job! It's cute (but annoying). I can't imagine having them as play partners (ugh no).

On that note, I can't imagine myself as a Top. I'm much more suited to the submissive role, both with men and women. However, I don't think I'm a sub proper, but more of a bottom with brat and slight sadmasochistic tendencies. Consensual non-consent, edge play, s/m of the mental and mindfuckery variety are my kinks. I've always been curious about total power exchange relationships, but idk.

Why I'm telling everyone about my kinks? Because lol :crazy:


----------



## Flatlander

Lizzie Boredom said:


> I really don't think too much about astrology. As far as I'm concerned: so long as you don't involuntarily have someone's ascendant moon rising in Uranus; it's all good. ^_^


What if you like it that way? Oh, the kink.


----------



## 6007

Thanatesque said:


> Hahaha! I've met those domly doms who think they can make a submissive out of any woman even dominant females/tops. Dom female are just brats who need the right dom, and obviously they're the ones to do the job! It's cute (but annoying). I can't imagine having them as play partners (ugh no).
> 
> On that note, I can't imagine myself as a Top. I'm much more suited to the submissive role, both with men and women. However, I don't think I'm a sub proper, but more of a bottom with brat and slight sadmasochistic tendencies. Consensual non-consent, edge play, s/m of the mental and mindfuckery variety are my kinks. I've always been curious about total power exchange relationships, but idk.
> 
> Why I'm telling everyone about my kinks? Because lol :crazy:


it is good to figure out your kinks and why not share them? It's interesting. 
I like helping people move energy. 
I find myself very interested in helping someone find catharsis through sex play, and I do this without meaning to. I always fancied having a man on a leash or in a dress or all sorts of funny little games because I like subversion I think... He's still a man no matter what he wears to me, and I like sort of playing with those lines I guess. Most men aren't secure enough to go there, tho they all bottom for me, usually happily. The ENTJ was the tricky one but he was a virgin with dominant energy, couldn't decide if actual dominant or needing control due to inexperience but... All sessions pointed to actual domness. 

I met a Dom in a rope class and he thought I was a brat. I hadn't heard of brat, I was actually annoyed at being tied up and wanted to find a way to get even and possibly light the world on fire. 
I think most people greatly underestimate that under all the feminine imagery I present, I am basically an animal in a dress, and a vicious one at that. Even I didn't know.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Flatlander said:


> What if you like it that way? Oh, the kink.


Well . . . , I think that rising Cancer, Scorpio or Sagittarius rising moon might prove painful or even injurious.


----------



## Luck

drmiller100 said:


> There is a "thing", albeit pretty rare. "submissive women with dominant personalities". They show up on a forum on another site I'm on.
> 
> Often INTJ or ENTJ, although ENFJ and ENFP also show up. I'm sure there are other types, but those are the most likely to post.
> 
> The idea is in their day to day life they have learned they have the power to run things, and they are comfortable running things. Kid's lives, work teams, bills, all the stuff everyone does. On top of that, they are smart enough and powerful enough they run more than most. Team leaders, project managers, etc they are all capable of.
> 
> There is an internal part of them who wants a strong, powerful man they can trust to submit to . TRUST is a huge deal. It takes a guy with at least as much power as they have, or pretty soon they end up running his life in addition to everything else.
> There is a sense inside they DO want to submit in the bedroom, for defined periods of time.
> 
> Usually this "type" doesn't coalesce until their 40's or 50's. A very few figure it out in their 30's.
> 
> I don't know if this helps.


Yes it does help, thank you. It's reassuring to know it's a thing and I'm relatively early to the party. I can run a household while running a business and more, typically to my detriment in a LTR bc I end up doing everything including, as you noted, running his life too which is not what I expected or want. I'm classic INTJ -- I can run the show and I will if there is no one else to do it but I would much prefer someone else competent lead. 

However I don't wish to only submit in the bedroom for defined periods of time. I have this strange thing where everything must be 'real'. So for me to be submissive (for lack of a better word -- I don't like BDSM connotations) he needs to be more powerful in all ways at all times and then I could be potentially deferential to him always, not just sexually (although he'd be smart to stay out of my work life where I am the expert and will remain a 'dominant' person in my field). 

I prefer this full power exchange, well, after getting past the resulting identity crisis. Still working on feelings of vulnerability. Trust is key as you said. I also prefer it this way bc having run things myself I know how frustrating and ineffective it is to have full responsibility without full power. I admire him for wanting to lead our r/ship. I am grateful for the high degree of intimacy and harmony that results from the unity.

Having been on the inside now of this type of r/ship, albeit an easing in slowly version, it's fascinating how it works. It isn't as difficult as I would have expected. Perhaps this says something about my essential nature but it's surprising how pleasant it is to give up control (to someone competent and trustworthy). If there is a choice between doing X and Y together and he chooses X there is no pouting, no second guessing, no recriminations if X unforeseeably turns out lame. I know he factors in what I want/need but I don't think or worry about any of that, I'm just relaxed and happy. All the time. I never would have predicted it worked this way.

The other thing I'm discovering that I never would have predicted is how much I enjoy 'pleasing' and being 'useful' to him. I've never been a pleaser in my life and it sounds so disingenuous but it's a real desire now. I want to be 'good' to/for him. In previous r/ships I'd pick up the slack bc it was the 'right' thing to do (not really but that's how it felt at the time) but I would always judge my slacking partner as undeserving and he would pay elsewhere (it's the couch for you!). I deem this guy I'm now dating as highly deserving I guess. 

I have this pattern of putting this kind of morality into my r/ships. I only recently learned about the enneagram and scored almost as high as a 1 as I did a 5. I'm pretty sure I'm a 5w4 but noticing this wanting to be good/useful instinct in my r/ship I'm wondering if that's the 1 influence coming through (5w4 1w9 3w4 tritype). Can tritypes influence behavior like this or is this instinct in me unrelated? I'm also wondering how being sx might factor into all this too. Any thoughts welcome.


----------



## Donovan

^ 
@Luck

that sounds more 1'ish. if "doing what is 'right'" + having a competency fix that stems from the enneagram (as opposed to having ennea-like symptoms for completely different reasons), then it in itself may win out over 5; and 5 may have come up 'highly' because you are an introvert within the competency triad, which may mimic the latter type. 




> after getting past the resulting identity crisis


this! oh my god, i spoke in circles for 2 whole posts when this sentence was what i was trying to get at. that's the feeling i came across in the other. or almost like reconciling parts that were not used, or were more comfortable 'stowed away'.


----------



## 6007

I let people have their illusions, quite often. 
But sometimes I want to scream
I AM SMARTER THAN YOU. 

I dont because fuck it; I know it and that's enough. 

But I admit sometimes ego wants to have a moment.


----------



## Luck

Donovan said:


> [re identity crisis] ...that's the feeling i came across in the other. or almost like reconciling parts that were not used, or were more comfortable 'stowed away'.


"Stowed away" is exactly how it felt in me. That this soft 'submissive' side of me was there all along, buried and I had to uncover it slowly to not overwhelm myself or completely crush my strong stable sense of who I am (in some ways, the complete opposite). And it really was difficult to uncover it, not just bc facing it was uncomfortable but bc it was buried so deep I genuinely had no idea it was there. 

My first inkling was when I was 27, I had a strange urge to be more 'womanly' even though I didn't understand what that even really meant let alone why I would be feeling it. Eventually I would work out to date a highly dominant man to feel relatively 'womanly'. Next challenge in the ongoing identity crisis was accepting sexual submissiveness as part of my nature. Then the really tough one of accepting being more fully 'submissive' in my personal r/ship, in and out of the bedroom. And even now settling into this r/ship, I see myself doing things and I still feel like: 'huh? who am I?' -- it's almost like this r/ship is teaching me who I am.

I liked your deer in the headlights post btw. The non sexual description of that sexual act amused me to no end. 

And thank you for your musing on my enneagram dilemma.


----------



## Vermillion

drmiller100 said:


> There is a "thing", albeit pretty rare. "submissive women with dominant personalities". They show up on a forum on another site I'm on.
> 
> Often INTJ or ENTJ, although ENFJ and ENFP also show up. I'm sure there are other types, but those are the most likely to post.
> 
> The idea is in their day to day life they have learned they have the power to run things, and they are comfortable running things. Kid's lives, work teams, bills, all the stuff everyone does. On top of that, they are smart enough and powerful enough they run more than most. Team leaders, project managers, etc they are all capable of.
> 
> There is an internal part of them who wants a strong, powerful man they can trust to submit to . TRUST is a huge deal. It takes a guy with at least as much power as they have, or pretty soon they end up running his life in addition to everything else.
> There is a sense inside they DO want to submit in the bedroom, for defined periods of time.
> 
> Usually this "type" doesn't coalesce until their 40's or 50's. A very few figure it out in their 30's.
> 
> I don't know if this helps.


Oh I'm glad this is recognized as a thing. I don't usually talk about this to people, but despite being a responsible and assertive powerhouse of competency in my everyday life, I've really always sought powerful and self-assured people I can truly let myself go with, and unleash all the fluff and doe-eyes around :laughing: I have a strong personality but I cannot stand dating people with weak or receding ones -- I get bored almost instantly. I need someone who will let me have the reins and watch my back, but whose arms I can simply melt in.


----------



## Animal

I was always the artist,
looking inward and reflecting on my feelings
It's not enough anymore.

I need to be with him.

I've never seen this side of me before,
and I don't know whether to call it weak or strong..
I'm not sure if I care to call it anything.

It's not something that can be summed up in a photo, a song, an album, a novel, or a trilogy.
It's beyond anything I can express.
Everything else could be captured. This can't.

I am nothing if not desire surrounded by a hall of mirrors, reflecting on it.
At best I am a vessel through which this reflection is expressed.
It takes more than desire to make me human
and now I'm human and I don't know how to capture it.

Capturing my emotional experience 
helps me to understand it, gain some distance from it.
Equanimity, non-attachment..
it's both beautiful and dangerous.
It makes me powerful, alive and true
gives me a sense of purpose.
But now my destiny is out of my control
when he can make me or break me,
I am not in control.

I surrendered long ago.
He is more than a facet of my self-expression,
a symbol in my hall of mirrors,
a purpose, an inspiration, or a reason to hope.
He is free, alive, and human... and so am I.
Together we're more than the sum of our parts,
just like the myths claim.
And separately, we are more than we were before.

I'm less in control, but more alive.
I feel like I'm breaking under the weight of my humanity..
My feelings are overwhelming and they pour out into the open and I can't stop them.
And he drinks them in with insatiate pleasure
and replenishes me with his own flow of beauty
And I don't know whether to laugh or cry
Or beg the deities I don't believe in 
to give me just one moment of peace
in the midst of this storm of desperation that will consume me
until I can be with him again.

I know now
what love is.
And I vow
No matter how raw this journey becomes
I will never forget.


----------



## Gorgon

I hate oversensitive people and their passive aggressive bullshit. They want you to empathize with them, and then they turn on you by projecting their bullshit onto to you because you refuse to coddle them. They overanalyze your actions by turning simple actions into something more sinister than they should be. They incorrectly attribute certain motivations to innocuous actions. I hope they suffer the consequences of their actions to the fullest extent. That will give them something to cry about. Fuck their stupid feelings. If you cry wolf too many times, eventually no one will take you seriously.

They bring out the sadist in me.


----------



## 6007

In under 24 hours I am going to have a glorious INFJ man in my arms. 
Omg. 
Holy crap. 
Omg. 
Omg. 
Omg. 
Inside it is a riot of emotion
outside aloof disinterested ice queen.


----------



## 6007

El Diablo has now been in touch but not to inform
me he misses fucking me. 
This is an interesting turn of events. 
I don't understand the man. 
But I did really fancy him, before.
it is very much like my INFJ man and I are exactly what I thought I'd be with Diablo. 
It is too strange. 
Not sure how to explain it. 
My infj and el Diablo are strange mirrors of each other. 
Infj is almost like... If you mixed me and Diablo together and made a person.


----------



## drmiller100

Luck said:


> "\
> My first inkling was when I was 27, I had a strange urge to be more 'womanly' even though I didn't understand what that even really meant let alone why I would be feeling it. Eventually I would work out to date a highly dominant man to feel relatively 'womanly'. Next challenge in the ongoing identity crisis was accepting sexual submissiveness as part of my nature. Then the really tough one of accepting being more fully 'submissive' in my personal r/ship, in and out of the bedroom. And even now settling into this r/ship, I see myself doing things and I still feel like: 'huh? who am I?' -- it's almost like this r/ship is teaching me who I am.
> 
> .


perhaps at the age of 27 you are REALLY developing your Fi. My Fe at a similar age came out. 

An open invitation, there is a site fetlife which is out there. if you are curious to learn more, go create a profile and look around. if you want some suggestions for forums PM me here and I can offer suggestions.


----------



## 6007

My use of Fe amuses me quite sincerely. 
There are certain situations in which I swear (unless I'm deluded as fuck) that I use it quite well. There has always been a quality within me to be highly socially graceful and advanced, as well as intensely awkward and socially retarded.
I had to read psychology and etiquette books to understand quite a lot about social expectations, almost as if I was an alien studying a race so I could fit in better. And it's possible I am an alien. 
Being a waitress and in customer service polished and refined me, made me able to anticipate needs instinctively... I'm an amazing host. No overstatement. No detail is overlooked. I was a domestic servant as well, so that did inform my development as well, but my desire to be accurate and to perform well and know what is needed and expected seems to be part of it as well. 
I want to be good at all I do. 
mostly for my own satisfaction but pleasing others can be amusing as well, and rewarding.
it isn't why I do it, but a fun and enjoyable perk for sure. 
Hmmmmmmmm. 
I get to wash my infj's hair and scrub his back. 
I love that he appreciates that, and being served from a tray little things I prepare for him. 
So nice.


----------



## Gorgon

I find people who don the label of sapiosexual (sexual attraction to intelligence) to be pretentious as fuck and full of themselves. I'm not saying intelligence isn't sexy, but I find these people not as smart as they think they are. I don't see them getting hot and bothered over research scientists.


----------



## drmiller100

Thanatesque said:


> I find people who don the label of sapiosexual (sexual attraction to intelligence) to be pretentious as fuck and full of themselves. I'm not saying intelligence isn't sexy, but I find these people not as smart as they think they are. \.



Smiles......

Why yes I are!!!!!!

Grins.....


----------



## Gorgon

drmiller100 said:


> Smiles......
> 
> Why yes I are!!!!!!
> 
> Grins.....


I like you :crazy:


----------



## Dalton

kaleidoscope said:


> "A thousand splendid suns" - Khaled Hosseini.


I read his first novel, The Kite Runner, several years ago. I could say much of what you said for that book as well.


----------



## kaleidoscope

Dalton said:


> I read his first novel, The Kite Runner, several years ago. I could say much of what you said for that book as well.


That one is definitely next on my list to read! If you have any other book suggestions, feel free to send me a VM.


----------



## Rala

Rala said:


> I think I fell asleep around 5 AM. I woke up around 7:30 AM feeling frightened, but without knowing why. I remember I woke up feeling the same last night and then I knew: I had a nightmare. It wasn't even a nightmare. Hell, it wasn't even a scary dream, but still I woke up feeling so scared that I had to think about what I dreamed to install all that information in my mind forever and I did not go back to sleep. It was a "slap in the face" kind of dream. I guess I needed that in order to start paying more attention to my dreams. And now that I do, I feel like I was living with my demons at my side all this time, except they live in a different dimension, different reality. I met them last night too, but I'll start with the dream I had just a few hours ago.
> I was some place near the entrance of some woods, after I had taken a different path than the one I was supposed to take, the one I was familiar with (just being the usual counter-everything me). There was someone there in the woods (girl or boy, I am not sure) and there was someone else that felt more like a guiding voice even though they were human and standing right beside me outside the woods. This person that was with me then threw something that looked like a red ball in the woods and told the girl/boy to go and grab it and then come out of there. I could see them trying, running after it but the ball was rolling faster and faster deep in the woods. I was watching it all in terror and, at some point, I decided to take a few steps into the woods and then I found myself telling this person "Go, hurry up, you are not alone, I am here with you, don't be scared". But after a few moments, after seeing the person trying in vain, I got out of the woods, afraid to stay there for long OR go any deeper into it even though it was daylight; there was just a dangerous scent in the air about everything. Then I turned around and asked the person beside me "why am I so afraid of the woods?" and they said exactly this: "Because you are afraid of your childhood". I don't think I even realized exactly what they said to me then, but I did when I woke up and it hit me hard. Though I didn't cry yet 'cause I am still in a bit of a shock and I feel numb anyway. Then I remember running very fast, not stopping when faces in my dream looked like they were really angry with me. What the fuck were they angry about, I can't remember. I didn't care. I would have asked, but all I could think about was "get the fuck out of my way, bitch, I am running for my life though no one is actually following me".
> I was thinking a few days ago about how I barely remember my dreams and how I can't make sense of them when I know there are important messages in dreams. I was complaining, but I wasn't even trying to pay attention. And here I am now, slapped in the face with a message as clear as daylight. I didn't even have to try to decipher it all and this is what scares me the most. This dream led me to remember the dream I had one night before, but that one was scary as fuck. It started with me thinking I was traveling. I was somewhere in a very weird country, it was a poor and wild one. I grabbed a map to look at the continent I thought I had traveled to, but it looked nothing like the actual map, it was different, I wasn't able to figure out where I was. Then I had a quick thought: I was in a past life or so I felt in the dream. I didn't like anything about it so I started crying. The world and the people there were violent and cruel. There were kids that looked paralyzed with fear, they were beaten and their faces were burned. There were injured people everywhere. I felt unsafe. I remember there was also this person who was burned all over their body, there was no flesh anymore, and a doctor was trying to keep them alive. I recall thinking to myself "why doesn't he just let them die, I wouldn't want to live like that if I were them, I would want people to just let me die."
> If everyone and everything in a dream is an aspect of yourself, even the settings, then that zombie of a man was me as well. Dead inside and scarred for life. In the dream, I wished I could do something to help those kids, but they were all holding their mothers' hand and I was just an outsider. And, plus, I know now that kindness would have probably scared them away, just as it scares me away, as it strange as that sounds. I don't know where to look for myself anymore.


Here, found your theme song


----------



## 6007

It is wrong to kick others in the forehead right?


----------



## 6007

Finding...I'm glad I ended it with Diablo. 
I was when I did anyway, but... Some of his recent communication has made it even more obvious that I am better off with infj. 
It is funny though, having gone through a divorce it is a real thing to understand that all relationships can and usually do end. 
But I am glad I am spending time with a man like him. 
It is hard to articulate but the connection is unusual in an authentic way; I feel at home for the first time. 

I find also a new sense of appreciation for the other men I loved before him, for example I saw Dead Robot's new lady and he looks
very happy with her. I feel happy for him. I feel grateful for all he brought to me, and I feel grateful to infj. 

I certainly don't want to get my heart broken again; nearly dying due to divorce was a bit extreme, and crying for two months straight over Mr Squeeze was certainly humbling and odd... Since I didn't even cry over my own husband that way. 

Hm. 

i don't know what tomorrow brings. I have to learn to live with that and just trust I will always be ok, as I always am, because I am
smart and probably all my dead relatives made a pact with blood to protect me.


----------



## 6007

Feeling more than slightly insecure. 
It has been bubbling up quietly over the last few days. 
I am worried about some money I owe my ex, some business stuff I need to handle, not knowing which direction to take my business, and a vague sense of impending doom. 
It is also triggering a lot of stuff regarding infj because he's the first partner I've had in 15 years, and when I tried to let him know I was feeling anxious it didn't go over well. 
He thinks by my expressing worry I am going to sabotage our relationship. I think by expressing worry I'm letting him know how I think. I feel like...
whenever i am honest it never goes well in any connection. Either my honesty is inherently bad or... I can't communicate or something. I feel like I ruin everything. I went from wanting to feel comforted to feeling worse and... Maybe all the things I fear are going to happen now. 
I don't want to get stuck in an anxiety spiral. I am definitely hormonal as well, period is on the way. But these concerns are not nothing, just amplified. 
Perhaps simply writing them here is better. And telling no one else.


----------



## Gorgon

My moods have been shifting daily. In a day, I can go from pissed to jubilant to anxious to melancholic. The holiday season combined with sudden financial changes have left me feeling somewhat throttled and insecure. I know in the end, it'll be ok as long as I am responsible. It's hard dealing with the external environment when your internal environment is a maelstrom. I feel easily decentered, which is shameful to me because it seems weak. My emotions is like a puppetmaster and I am the puppet pulled by marionette strings.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

When you're sitting in a coffee shop and they start playing The Smiths, you're feeling like the protagonist of an indie film trying to get over an ugly breakup. Yo Michel Gondry, I'm waiting for you to give me a script.


----------



## 6007

Had a dream Dead Robot started posting on Perc and I was not thrilled. 
Like at all. 
I think I dreamt of him because he's emailed me twice. And I saw his new love interest. Who appears to be either a ballet dancer or an anorexic. He looks happy tho and she's pretty. But her arms scare the shit out of me, ropy grandma arms. 

If I put myself in his position, in a relationship of about a year, I can see how having any cords to me feel pointless. It took me longer to get over him. 

During meditation, I saw what may have been an ancestor of mine. She burned off all dead robot's karma and that of his lover and tied them together with silver cord. They will be happy. 

I only hope I will be too. I released him and asked for them to be cleansed and happy, so that's all I can do. 

My ancestor woman, I see her only sometimes. One time she was dancing with someone who looked like mr squeeze and I couldn't tell if it was my imagination or what. But I hadn't willed it. There was something familiar about him always. But he was my shadow. Very little good came from that connection. 

I don't see that woman in my visions often and I want to. Pretty sure she's a priestess. And is a bird.


----------



## drmiller100

Thanatesque said:


> My moods have been shifting daily. In a day, I can go from pissed to jubilant to anxious to melancholic. The holiday season combined with sudden financial changes have left me feeling somewhat throttled and insecure. I know in the end, it'll be ok as long as I am responsible. It's hard dealing with the external environment when your internal environment is a maelstrom. I feel easily decentered, which is shameful to me because it seems weak. My emotions is like a puppetmaster and I am the puppet pulled by marionette strings.


you've been through a LOT in the past 6 months.

if you can, let yourself rest on occasion. Forgive yourself. 

It takes time to change yourself and your reactions, and it takes time to form new habits. 

Friends are there. You have other tools as well.


----------



## sinaasappel

im lurking


----------



## 6007

Omfg my trans friend is looking so fukkin gorgeous. Always thought he was cute even when more feminine but the masculine features are flawless.


----------



## Gorgon

Thank you to all the people who lacked faith in me
You forced me to look within myself for security

Thank you to all the people who thought of me as weak
You forced me to build the strength within myself

Thank you to all the people who denigrated me
You forced me to find love within myself

Your negativity emboldens me. It makes my resolve stronger and my goals clearer. I do this not for you, but to manifest my potential and vison. I will overcome, I will conquer, I will impact. But I will also allow myself to love with all my heart, and give love and compassion to those who call for it. I will not fall prey to your traps, the traps of hate, cynicism, and cruelty. So thank you for making the path clearer for me.


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> I don't see that woman in my visions often and I want to. Pretty sure she's a priestess. And is a bird.


i don't experience it the way you're talking about, but it reminds of 'people' i've met in dreams. 
the young girl to the young-dream-version of myself, and a very old black guy wearing a suit (who gave off this wise, fatherly, everything's warm and sunshiney-feeling--gave me advice i couldn't remember upon waking as well... lol, ah well). 


i guess i shouldn't try to say what it would be, as it would probably seem to be something different for each person, as i imagine every person experiences it/connection-to-self/unconscious/etc. differently. but it is really cool to hear about peoples' connections, how it happens for them, what it's like, how they interpret it. 

anyhow, just wanted to remark on what i think is a difference (among many differences) in an overarching mechanism throughout all people.


----------



## 6007

I am completely love drunk off my infj. 
He is in the other room and didn't do anything special but he's just cute and I love having him around so much.


----------



## Superfluous

Late last year I got fed up with my depression and began to spin physical manifestations, and I'm happy to continue this on for 2016. 


* *




Embracing spirituality like never before is like cracking open a window in the stuffy house that is my earthly shell, and my soul that is inside could literally do a backflip in utter joy. As I'm still learning not to be hard on myself, I see that I have more patience for myself - I couldn't be any more grateful towards the 2 persons with deep understanding and atmosphere of security and trust, that I can communicate openly of my internal strife. Escapism and absorption is a coping mechanism of yesterday, yesteryear even. And I cry to myself that this is now my world, I never have felt such inspiration for my life. 2015, I found me disrespecting myself as I compared myself to idealizations, reflecting smoke and mirrors that surrounded me. I would look at the firey people, living life for they believed "you are what you do," and felt wrong. I would look at the wind like ones, and felt an admiration because they believed "you are the intellect you communicate." I was envious of the grounded persons who got up and built, - they created order, structure, and buildings because no one else did, and also because that's how they saw themselves. I got angry with myself because the manifestations of what I live for, is not tangible - something to grab and sit on. I cannot believe I was angry with myself for that.. I dismissed that I was the empath, the person who helps the spiritually poor and emotionally unhealthy. I dismissed myself as a creator because I was no longer creating. I despised myself, and dismissed myself as an artist, and I turned to people who wouldn't know art even if it took a shit on their head. Yet art, and creating, and healing, is what I'm here for, it's who I am. I love myself now because I create, and know this is my position in the world. I was stumbling in the dark to find my way, for quite a while. I tripped over myself and knocked a couple people over with me. But accepting what I am, my personal religion, was like pulling on a chain connected to a light bulb above my head - and I'm no longer stumbling. With each passing step, my path becomes clearer, smoother, wider - neon signs flashing, pointing to yes yes yes. The less I care about man, the more man accepts my creations, and I feel like an actual member of the wild civilization.


 

So after all that rambling that wasn't necessary, I realize this was the key to what I always planned to do but never did. Knowing I take too much synthetic medications as it is, I've wanted to target mental health the less conventional detour. From now on, I devote myself to natural medicine simply because I don't want to just ward off feelings of illness - I wanted to pamper my mind with organic love. Which is so exciting, because Janurary 2016 is the start of my journey! (This is also a blog post in the making lol.)


* *




I bought myself a light therapy lamp - and holy shit, this littler fucker is reforming a seasoned insomniac. A bright light at 7 am will do the trick not only to adjust my body clock is adjusting to normal times, but help with depression and fatigue. When anxiety creeps in, (or you know bangs me on the head with a frying pan), my unhealthy escapism mechanisms is literally out the window since painting helps melt nerves, pulling your mind out of your overworking thoughts and into imagery right in front of you. What's travel friendly is crayons with a coloring book, where people on the train look at how serene you are and ask to color with you. As an extrovert, that's quite an exciting thing to happen :laughing: I'm jotting down all my concoctions in a big leather book that was seriously calling my name through the interwebz, with other songs and ideas that give me great feels. This book includes random recipes from essential oil mixes to juicing recipes, discovering what works for me for what feelings and what times of the days.




whether you're giving me the eye, or enjoying an obvious ENFP basking in a moment where she feels proud, you should join me - internet stranger.

Pamper Yo' Self 2016
[ ]Sunlight (imporant for the hermits)
[ ]Art - even if it's bad 
[ ]Aromatherapy
[ ]Surge amounts of Nutrients via Juicing
[ ]Gallon of water a day - great for skin & mood.​
To get you started, I'll list a few essential oils for every uninvited mental bug that's clouding your mind:

Sense of self // worthlessness "never good enough's": 
*Cedarwood:* Properties of purification, rebirth, regeneration, regrowth, and bolsters healing. Egyptians & Native Americans used it for separate purposes, but all coexists in the idea of purification, to assist alignment with one's purpose, focus, clarity of intent, consecration of magical tools and sacred spaces, centering, to help letting go of mental and emotional anguish and to gain a sense of inner composition. *Please avoid if pregnant.*

Sense of Security // Neglect "never was given enough" 
*Geranium: * Properties of Assurance, Balance, Soothed, Tranquility, and bolsters health and fertility. This oil resonates with Mother Earth and encompasses feminine energy, Goddess Culture, and regeneration. Geranium Essential Oil should always be used with great respect. Dispels apprehension and negativity, balances inner male and female energies, detachment, flexibility. Essential Oil of Geranium extends its warm hand of comfort to the ‘inner child’ and helps open ones heart and heal the pain of memories.

Sense of wisdom // "never communicated well enough" - desire of intellect"
.....
* *




to be continued tomorrow. just realized it's way too late.


----------



## AddictiveMuse

Randomly thought of this guy last night. Haven't thought of him in forever. He popped up out of the blue again just now. Haven't heard from him in ages. Feeling bad about being the asshole. 

How come every time I think I found what I want I loose all interest? Meh, it was fun while it lasted I guess.


----------



## Kore

AddictiveMuse said:


> Randomly thought of this guy last night. Haven't thought of him in forever. He popped up out of the blue again just now. Haven't heard from him in ages. Feeling bad about being the asshole.
> 
> How come every time I think I found what I want I loose all interest? Meh, it was fun while it lasted I guess.


Because you know there's something missing. When it's right it'll fill you with passion to be with them and you try to put it into words but it's not enough so you write and write and write. Still, it's not enough. It can't be thought out, it has to be lived, felt. It'll be incomprehensible. When you're just thinking "this and this and this is what I want" you know you're not hitting on all that shit that you won't let yourself admit.


----------



## 6007

Feeling disappointed actually. 
I helped a friend get married recently, and it created a minor scandal. 
I told a trusted friend a week or so after the fact, thinking it wouldn't hurt at all, but that person I told must have told her mother in law, who spread gossip, correct and false info, all around. 

I am upset for a few reasons here. 
One is that I told something that wasn't mine, although I was part of it, and it came back to bite me. I don't ordinarily gossip, and I don't value talking idly about other people and now I feel... I am mad at myself. I made a poor choice and I feel guilty. 

Also i am disappointed with this group of people in general. They are part of a community and I am an outsider. I was married to dead robot, who has known these people forever. So I am realizing anything I said about myself is likely common knowledge at this point. My ex father in law probably knows everything. So... I would like to cut ties with all of these people. I employed some of them, and I was hesitant about it... And now I'm just like... Hmmm. I got the "deceit" card in my energy reading today which warns about gossip. Dude. Too on point.


----------



## HellCat

I just held a crying woman free of fifty yrs of anxiety, pain and trauma and I realized my healing work is the most important thing in the world even if I am a hypnotherapist who works so cheap I might as well be waitressing. 

She said why is my head floating? Peace and a quieted mind. I responded.


----------



## Chesire Tower

ripley said:


> What the fuck is wrong with me.


Absolutely nothing! I used to drive myself bonkers whenever things got difficult with others: Blaming and getting down on myself/ditto them, and feeling nihilistic and hopeless about the value of all relationships. I've since realized, to just stop stressing so much about this and kind of more go with the flow - being more in sync with the unniverse, and you know what? My relationships with others has actually improved! Now not to give anyone the wrong idea: I'm neither talking about being some kind of doormat or even being less assertive; what I'm referring to, is to basically not taking other peoples' moods and behahviours too personally. 85% of the time, it's usually way more about them then you anyhow.


----------



## AddictiveMuse

So you message me out of fucking nowhere. An hour later you message me again saying that you know when a girl isn't going to respond and then said bye? How fucking old are you? Last I checked you turn 25 this June. So refresh my memory; how much older than me are you again? Shouldn't you know better? 

So, wait a second and let me get this straight love, you go on some weird hiatus for a few months and then message me out of nowhere saying hey. Then when I am yet to reply little over an hour later _I'm_ the bad guy? The girl with bad taste? The one who's tacky? 

Fuck you dude. Fuck you and your control issues. Not to mention the entire plethora of shit going on there thanks to a rough childhood. Maybe this time I just won't reply. 

Why do I continually go for these people?


----------



## Ace Face

I don't believe in diagnosing yourself or anybody else based on what you read on the internet. Sure, those are things you may want to watch out for, consider, and do some extra checking up on, but don't work yourself up when you don't even have all the facts. Stop drawing false conclusions about your health and everyone else's. The drama is so fucking unnecessary. If something like that does prove to be true, then we can start hashing out our emotions about it, but in the meantime, let's not jump to conclusions because of some bull shit you read on the internet.


----------



## 6007

DISCLAIMER said:


> Absolutely nothing! I used to drive myself bonkers whenever things got difficult with others: Blaming and getting down on myself/ditto them, and feeling nihilistic and hopeless about the value of all relationships. I've since realized, to just stop stressing so much about this and kind of more go with the flow - being more in sync with the unniverse, and you know what? My relationships with others has actually improved! Now not to give anyone the wrong idea: I'm neither talking about being some kind of doormat or even being less assertive; what I'm referring to, is to basically not taking other peoples' moods and behahviours too personally. 85% of the time, it's usually way more about them then you anyhow.


hahahaaa I fucking LOVE the way you describe the emotions you felt in regards to fighting, because spot on for me. 
I feel like almost everything people do is inherently about their own feelings and thoughts, and most things are simply not personal. 
But fighting just sucks! It feels like the WHOLE WORLD is falling apart or something. 

Thank you for sharing your perspective, it's nice to know I'm not the only one.


----------



## 6007

I think my infj has a male form of PMDD. 
once a month he is an utter handful. 
Mercury retrograde does not help. 
We both bicker a lot (twice, typically) during each retrograde period. 

I dont understand what he does to me. 
I wasn't as attuned to pattern finding, at least... Not that I was aware of, with dead robot. 
Dead robot was the one who found patterns and found solutions. 
It is odd to see the ways in which I am assimilating qualities from an old partner in my new life. 
This isn't the first time I've noticed it. 

What is weird is I'm more like me than ever, and the similarities that drove me to dead robot in the first place are there, yet the incompatible parts are not. He was a spendthrift, and I'm a saver. I spend but in moderation. He loved groups and I preferred one to one; I cannot feel close to a person if we have never been alone. But I learned a lot of carpentry stuff by merely being around him. And I picked up new problem solving skills too, and since I was naturally a problem solver too that was good. 

Ugh thank god he's gone.


----------



## 6007

pancakes sound nice. 
No idea why.


----------



## 6007

I feel excited about learning again. 
For a while recently I've felt stagnant and like my wheels are spinning. 
No idea which direction to travel, frittering my energy away on arguments, allowing myself to be confused and drained. 
I feel a shift coming.


----------



## 6007

I wonder if all infj people are moody. 
I've known three well, and they all seemed too... Delicate... For modern living. 
Like, they don't handle the material world well at all. Everything is draining and doing like one task is too fucking much. 
I get it, but then all the moods as well? I'm like, good lord. 
How do you survive.


----------



## 6007

I'm so fucking happy I skipped yoga today because I bought a book by Frank Wilczek instead and spent the morning reading. 
Went for a walk for my fresh air and movement and... Sigh. I'm so excited to learn new things this year. 
Im hoping to take some art classes, as a little fuck you to my mom and ex boyfriend who were critical of my attempts before. 
I might suck ass and I might be scared but I might learn to see the world in a new way and make friends too. Or at least face a competency fear, and that alone is worth the price of admission.


----------



## Superfluous

The pain mechanism differs from a cancer patient to a sickle cell patient. 

The process one will feel in a sickle cell crisis is what is called ischemia - such as ischemia of the heart. the cells shape into sickle, becoming more plump and blocks the blood flow of certain places, such as in a heart attack. In relieving ischemia, there is avoidance of sickling and dehydration in general, but also circulation the blood. Blood transfusions, hydration, and digestion of nutrients that has cleansing properties for your body during ischemia... It is only patience that will bring healing - as the proportion of 'resickulate' count represents how much blood is being blocked, but how much blood is being transferred and thinned. 

The process a cancer patient feels like is impending growth of cells with growing scarcity of area, and therefore what you feel is pressure of organs, that gets worse over time unless there is a process of destruction against growing area, where as you will feel the destruction as cancer begins to heal.


----------



## 6007

My infj is a moody person. 
What is interesting is that I feel like I help him level out. 
I've never been helpful before, usually what I have to offer isn't accepted or valued by anyone. Just useless. 
I mean through a computer screen friends let me help. 
This is the first in person shit I've ever done. 

He's like dating me of 15 years ago. It's odd. 
But what is cool is he has a few strengths I didn't so that's nice. He cooks and cleans, for example, and I didn't. 

I love that tiny girl sized man.


----------



## 6007

Moodiness is really annoying in other people.


----------



## Quang

I started having depressing thoughts tonight. I feel like a hypocrite. I am compensating my fear of rejection by learning new things to feel more worthy of love and create an illusion of having power over the possibility of rejection... While I long for intimacy, I feel that what I love to do (personality analyses) distances people from me. I feel disconnected. Empty.


----------



## infinity paradox

*...*

* Te extraño ,

**Tu silencio está mantandome ... 



*


----------



## infinity paradox

Quang said:


> I started having depressing thoughts tonight. I feel like a hypocrite. I am compensating my fear of rejection by learning new things to feel more worthy of love and create an illusion of having power over the possibility of rejection... While I long for intimacy, I feel that what I love to do (personality analyses) distances people from me. I feel disconnected. Empty.


I think everyone does this to an extent, builds up their skills not just for the thing itself but also to compete and be better, and therefore have more status in the social circle or in society and the side-effect for some or desired effect for others, is that you are more cherished as a friend, desired as a mate, and/or an intimate partner. While in my opinion, it's good to not get involved with too many people too much, there's nothing wrong with helping people with their personality analyses and if you have interest in someone as a friend, or more, trying to investigate and evolve that into something more. At that point, you might want to find a healthy balance between your interest in analyzing others and simply having friends and/or intimates. Or perhaps you just need a break to do something else you enjoy, or spend time looking within yourself...


----------



## 6007

My infj isn't any fun at all when he is depressed.
i have been told I'm still fun and pleasant when I'm depressed.

what am I doing. 
I really don't know. 

We started this experiment of staying together a month to see if we could get along. He's been depressed off and on for two weeks now. 

The guy who insisted he could be happy anywhere isn't happy here. 

The fun part is, it's stirring up some of my self worth issues and unhealed stuff from my marriage. 

Dead Robot used to withdraw from me and infj is doing the same. It's anxiety provoking. I try to see it from his point of view and to set my own feelings aside, but I just barely climbed out of my own depression, for a few short months now, and this is triggering a lot of stuff for me. I am trying to be the bigger person, but I am also human and have limits.


i am just disappointed.
are all people fucked up? Or am I poison?
Why do relationships feel like a waste of time? 

Why do happy people like ESTJ and ENTJ bore and annoy me, and moody as fuck Ni dominants interest me?
I am pretty sure Squeeze was an intj or infj (he was cheery despite his Byronic moments) and el Diablo? Infj. 

Ugh. 

The only other person I was into was this EEYORE fuck infp who is so hard on himself and wheel spinning he isn't worth the effort, although I did get some text sex hahahaaaa. 

Fml


----------



## 6007

I think maybe, I should give up and work on healing myself. 
We are all in healing, and as I change my interior world my external world will follow suit. 
As I grow and heal, I will stop resonating with shitty people. 
Infj isnt shitty but he acts like a total dick when he is upset. 

In my ideal world, I have a partner who is in tune with his emotions and who can handle mine. He's mature and responsible, but emotionally available and playful. 

Really, I don't much like this planet or being alive and I'm just waiting to die. But that doesn't mean I can't have fun while I'm here... Even though each new failure and disappointment is making me pretty sure I will never find what I'm looking for, because it's not here. 

Reciprocal friendships, a family that likes me, a partner who doesn't run away from me, none of these things are in the cards for me. 
I am a loving and nurturing person who receives very little of it in return, except from people far far away. 
I move to be closer to people and it never works out. 
I don't know why I bother.


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> I think maybe, I should give up and work on healing myself.
> We are all in healing, and as I change my interior world my external world will follow suit.
> As I grow and heal, I will stop resonating with shitty people.
> Infj isnt shitty but he acts like a total dick when he is upset.
> 
> In my ideal world, I have a partner who is in tune with his emotions and who can handle mine. He's mature and responsible, but emotionally available and playful.
> 
> Really, I don't much like this planet or being alive and I'm just waiting to die. But that doesn't mean I can't have fun while I'm here... Even though each new failure and disappointment is making me pretty sure I will never find what I'm looking for, because it's not here.
> 
> Reciprocal friendships, a family that likes me, a partner who doesn't run away from me, none of these things are in the cards for me.
> I am a loving and nurturing person who receives very little of it in return, except from people far far away.
> I move to be closer to people and it never works out.
> I don't know why I bother.


perspective man. 


things are actually better than what you're giving them credit for. things not working out, or things just having rocky moments in general, isn't a bad outcome. (i think we're conditioned to think positive feelings come from _singular_ positive results--as in, "what we have our sights on--and so we don't see the objectively positive aspects, and never get that same kind of feed back loop that occurs when something "went right" (because we've already sought for what's in our sights and nothing else is now "right" without it in our clutches... it's like we all want to be unhappy--unhappy or incredibly happy, but existing is some inbetween is unbearable?). 


you have the means to pick up and follow your heart. you've met someone who may not be "the one", but for now you have companionship with a kindred spirit and there's good to be had there regardless of "what's in your sights". you get the chance to feel a bit of pain if things go wrong, only to broaden your search and be a little better for doing so.


----------



## Animal

Quang said:


> I started having depressing thoughts tonight. I feel like a hypocrite. I am compensating my fear of rejection by learning new things to feel more worthy of love and create an illusion of having power over the possibility of rejection... While I long for intimacy, I feel that what I love to do (personality analyses) distances people from me. I feel disconnected. Empty.


I can relate to this sort of..

I don't care about trying new things, nor do I have insecurity about my interest in personality analysis distancing people from me.. but I relate to this in the sense that I felt, for a long time , like I was "building myself up" to be... my best self, my ideal self, my true self... so I'd be 'ready' when I met my soulmate. It's not really about accomplishments or skills or knowing a lot of things for me - it's about being true to my own dreams. For instance I graduated from a great college but it did nothing for my self esteem at all. What made me feel like I really took life by the reigns, was recording my own album, singing through my whisper, working through my emotions in the music etc. The album isn't perfect and I cringe when I listen to it.. because there are so many things in the production that I wish I had done differently now.... but I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that I gave that project my all when I could, and reclaimed my 'lost voice' or even my 'lost innocence' in a way. And that made me feel more confident, that I had 'something to offer' with the right man. Although, it's more about my willpower and my reclaiming of my dreams, than the actual music. It's about who I am, who I became and who I reclaimed in the process.


----------



## 6007

Donovan said:


> perspective man.
> 
> 
> things are actually better than what you're giving them credit for. things not working out, or things just having rocky moments in general, isn't a bad outcome. (i think we're conditioned to think positive feelings come from _singular_ positive results--as in, "what we have our sights on--and so we don't see the objectively positive aspects, and never get that same kind of feed back loop that occurs when something "went right" (because we've already sought for what's in our sights and nothing else is now "right" without it in our clutches... it's like we all want to be unhappy--unhappy or incredibly happy, but existing is some inbetween is unbearable?).
> 
> 
> you have the means to pick up and follow your heart. you've met someone who may not be "the one", but for now you have companionship with a kindred spirit and there's good to be had there regardless of "what's in your sights". you get the chance to feel a bit of pain if things go wrong, only to broaden your search and be a little better for doing so.


You are not here, you do not know what is happening. This is not your experience, it is mine. 
If you don't mind fighting every few days for 2-3 days with no reprieve, good for you. This is the third big fight lasting several days, and I am exhausted. 
I don't mind lows, I just don't want an entire relationship of them.


----------



## 6007

Last night infj was in a mood, which what else is new lately. 
So I remembered he needs time to think. So I let him hang out in the Livingroom alone, even though I really wanted to hang out and have fun with him. 
Turns out that was the wrong thing to do because he thought I was mad at him, when in reality I was trying to be supportive. 
So... Yeah... 
It feels like whenever things go wrong I'm one of those pleading abused people and I hate it. I can't predict what he will do or say and last time he kept punching himself in the face despite it clearly making me uncomfortable. 
Then i got so mad I actually wanted to hit him myself and he told me I should but I was not comfortable with that. 
I don't want to hit someone I love. The idea is repulsive. 
somehow when arguments happen I feel like there's this adversarial vibe and he almost doesn't fight fair. Almost. He stops just short of saying something awful but it feels like the potential is there. Usually he storms out and comes back drunk. That's twice already. 
I am thinking it might happen again tonight. 

I have to buy him a ticket home. He has no money at all. So I guess it's on me to fix this. 

I told him my only intention was to be supportive and give him what he needs but it's like I do and say all the wrong stuff. If I try to be nice it's smothering. If I try to talk it's bulldozing. If I give space I'm mad. 

Ive only been his partner like two months. What the fuck is this noise. And he's said he's jealous and possessive so I get to look forward to that soon I'm sure. 

the whole point of us doing this experiment was to experience each other and try to see if we could be compatible to live together. 
It doesn't look promising.


----------



## Sygma

Rinnie said:


> I either looked like a hot-ass lesbian yesterday, or like I was wearing my boyfriends clothes lol xD, but whatever, I was comfy as shit.
> 
> 
> I smoked weed for the first time in my life yesterday (IKR? How ghey) and it was different from how I thought it would be. I wasn't crazy high, just a little spaced and giggly, but it would wear off quickly. We didn't have joints so we had to use the bong and honestly it fucking killed my throat so I wasn't going doing it a whole bunch, which is maybe another reason I wasn't as high as I'd have liked. Still fun though.
> 
> 
> Since doing that I feel a little more "7" xD lol. I feel like I'm starting to "live" a bit more, you know? It may sound stupid, but I lived a very sheltered life. My upbringing was...smothering, to say the least. I didn't really get a chance to go out and experience shit that most people did in their teenage years. Like, I'm not saying "okay, and next on the list is coke! Then I'm gonna have sex with a male stripper and just lose my motherfucking marbels!" I just mean like...life is starting to seem comfortable to me, and I feel like for the first time in my (almost) 23 years of living I'm free, and I'm able to make my own decisions and go where I want with who I please. It's MY life, not anyone else's. I don't really know how to put it into words, but it's a good feeling. I like it, I hope it sticks around.


I just started to live and I'm 29. I somehow have a feeling that most of 7 are late bloomers in a sense. We re all get seriously "free" pretty late compared to the rest. But when we do its twice as much


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> You are not here, you do not know what is happening. This is not your experience, it is mine.
> If you don't mind fighting every few days for 2-3 days with no reprieve, good for you. This is the third big fight lasting several days, and I am exhausted.
> I don't mind lows, I just don't want an entire relationship of them.


hahahaha fair enough. trying to help, not trying to tell you 'what is what'. do with it what you will, i honestly don't give a fuck.

edit: but, for the record: i'm _right_. take care.


----------



## infinity paradox

ripley said:


> what am I doing.
> I really don't know.
> 
> We started this experiment of staying together a month to see if we could get along. He's been depressed off and on for two weeks now.
> 
> The guy who insisted he could be happy anywhere isn't happy here.
> 
> The fun part is, it's stirring up some of my self worth issues and unhealed stuff from my marriage.


This sucks. I know how it is to be in something new but find the same old triggers, not just sensitive issues but things that are actually spike stabbing into old scar tissue. 



ripley said:


> Dead Robot used to withdraw from me and infj is doing the same. It's anxiety provoking. I try to see it from his point of view and to set my own feelings aside, but I just barely climbed out of my own depression, for a few short months now, and this is triggering a lot of stuff for me. I am trying to be the bigger person, but I am also human and have limits.


Is this the situation you want? Are you sure? If it is...maybe you can try doing something different. Whatever activities you guys are doing together now, it's not working... try some new ones... maybe things that aren't sex so that your other bonds are strengthened. 



ripley said:


> i am just disappointed.
> are all people fucked up? Or am I poison?
> Why do relationships feel like a waste of time?


Yeah. I've been there. Disappointment and feeling like all or most people, at least the ones I choose were fucked up, or maybe there was just something wrong with me, I was making bad choices, et c. Relationships don't really feel like a waste of time when I'm in them, especially not at the beginning. It's a danger sign, especially if you don't feel like you can put in the effort...




ripley said:


> Why do happy people like ESTJ and ENTJ bore and annoy me, and moody as fuck Ni dominants interest me?


I actually often prefer "moody" people too, or perhaps it's just pensive, thoughtful introversion..


----------



## infinity paradox

ripley said:


> I think maybe, I should give up and work on healing myself.
> We are all in healing, and as I change my interior world my external world will follow suit.
> As I grow and heal, I will stop resonating with shitty people.
> Infj isnt shitty but he acts like a total dick when he is upset.
> 
> In my ideal world, I have a partner who is in tune with his emotions and who can handle mine. He's mature and responsible, but emotionally available and playful.
> 
> Really, I don't much like this planet or being alive and I'm just waiting to die. But that doesn't mean I can't have fun while I'm here... Even though each new failure and disappointment is making me pretty sure I will never find what I'm looking for, because it's not here.


I think self-healing is a good idea no matter what the scenario. How will you go about it?

 I can relate to not wanting to live and feeling disconnected or hating everyone and everything... Failure and disappointments are inevitable but that doesn't mean you can't have hope... I don't mean lazy, sit around and do nothing and wish on a star hope that corny life advice coaches might give  Directed hope means you actively work to make something better happen. 



ripley said:


> Reciprocal friendships, a family that likes me, a partner who doesn't run away from me, none of these things are in the cards for me.
> I am a loving and nurturing person who receives very little of it in return, except from people far far away.
> I move to be closer to people and it never works out.
> I don't know why I bother.


I am also loving and nurturing and I have had people run from me, or treat me badly. It sucks when you know you don't deserve that treatment, but don't allow yourself to think that you don't have value as a person or can't be nurtured or loved. Maybe moving closer to or accommodating others isn't working for a reason...You need to take care of yourself first. Maybe be alone. Don't rely on others for pleasure primarily. I know it might be easier said than done. *shrug*


----------



## Quang

After talking with a close friend, I feel much better now! :kitteh:


----------



## 6007

Donovan said:


> hahahaha fair enough. trying to help, not trying to tell you 'what is what'. do with it what you will, i honestly don't give a fuck.
> 
> edit: but, for the record: i'm _right_. take care.


Glad you don't care and that you're right. Good for you and fuck your self very much.


----------



## 6007

I know he was a meth addict for several years and now he smokes weed pretty much daily. 
Since we've been together he hasn't smoked at all. 
I think that's a factor perhaps?
and when he's upset he has to get drunk. 
The worst fight, he came back stumbling drunk (all 130 pounds of him) and was punching himself in the face and just being crazy. 
I know the way he acts isn't normal. I know it's weird. 
I just don't know if it's ok weird or dangerous weird. 
No matter how upset I get, say I start crying or getting triggered, he cannot hug me. If he is upset, only his feelings matter. 
I don't know if this is ok. 
I think I need my life coach because I'm genuinely confused. 
I don't want to end up like my dead aunt. Her spouse enabled her to drink herself to death... But only after much worse things happened first. 
I am and have always been acutely aware that connections can make or break life itself. 
I know I have MDD and I often think of killing myself but I am still smart enough to know I need to make good choices. 
Unfortunately I'm the type who can't give up until it's obvious it will not work no matter what, which a friend kindly pointed out to me yesterday. 

It seems like if I have to spend so much time talking about someone instead of interacting positively with them, that is a red flag.


----------



## 6007

infinity paradox said:


> This sucks. I know how it is to be in something new but find the same old triggers, not just sensitive issues but things that are actually spike stabbing into old scar tissue.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the situation you want? Are you sure? If it is...maybe you can try doing something different. Whatever activities you guys are doing together now, it's not working... try some new ones... maybe things that aren't sex so that your other bonds are strengthened.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah. I've been there. Disappointment and feeling like all or most people, at least the ones I choose were fucked up, or maybe there was just something wrong with me, I was making bad choices, et c. Relationships don't really feel like a waste of time when I'm in them, especially not at the beginning. It's a danger sign, especially if you don't feel like you can put in the effort...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually often prefer "moody" people too, or perhaps it's just pensive, thoughtful introversion..


I definitely don't mind changing I think what's concerning me is I honestly don't know what to do. I am not familiar with his personality type (in the sense that he has been both extremely moody in the last week, and perhaps missing his "medication" as he hasn't smoked weed in a month). Definitely had every intention of bonding in many ways, but his lack of job is getting him down and when he's down he sits on the couch being a dick or drunk for days, climbs out and goes back to it. I don't know him well enough to know how to handle this. He also has a history of major drug use, being abused, and I am seeing all of these things coming out. On occasion I feel like the mother of a surly 16 year old. 

Effort I don't mind, I think I've been scared off at times, but when I look back, the people who scared me off were actually toxic for me. This man helps me grow but it's accompanied with so much pain that I am trying to figure out how to trick my brain into maintaining distance without getting upset. But then I look and I'm like... Um Ripley there are red flags everywhere...

no matter how upset I am I struggle with myself to stay out of ego and not self protect. I report my true emotions even when hard. I admit when I feel insecure or anything and why, accepting full responsibility for my emotions. But this man can't handle that well, he feels like everything is an accusation. It's like if someone isn't hitting him he doesn't know his limits. He acts very much like a child. He's 31.


----------



## 6007

Nine days of fighting and him offering to dump me, and he's finally given me clarity. 
Jesus fucking Christ. 
Ni is not fast. 

I still don't know if we are right for each other in a long term monogamous thing but I can operate when my partner will actually talk to me and not act like an angry teenage girl.


----------



## Ace Face

I watch the people around me... see them profess love, openly display affection, and then watch them fall apart. It's not enough to profess love. It's not enough to give and display affection. I tire of watching others perform this same circus act over and over again. I'm almost convinced that at least half of the world's population has absolutely no clue what it really means to love another person. Furthermore, so many people seem to to be unable to decipher what is real from what is imagined. Take your relationship for what it actually is, and if you don't like it for what it actually is, it's going to profit you nothing to deceive yourself with imagined perfection. I really don't understand what people don't understand about all of this...


----------



## Animal

@ripley
My fiancé is likely an INFJ (in my opinion) and he is more reasonable than I am... and most people who know me in real life would actually consider me very sane. I splat my intense emotions in diaries, perc or artwork , so those who see me on perc might have the impression I'm tortured, insane and unruly. But.. that's just me processing and releasing my emotions in an environment where its harmless. On a day to day basis I can deal with a lot of pressure, stress and a chronic illness pretty smoothly, and solve my own problems, though I do open up to my fiancé because we love to support each other emotionally (this is not something I usually do). My fiancé is the same way I am, he deals with whatever comes. He has lots of emotions and passion but it's nothing like you describe.. he shares them in an open and honest way, but never puts his problems on me, outside the context of honest sharing.

I have dealt with men like that before, though. The insane brilliant tortured ones whose problems bring me down even while they also help me grow and inspire me. It's a tough thing to walk away from, when someone is honestly suffering and not torturing you out of cruel intent. But ultimately, this can't be explained away with type or trauma. Someone eventually has to come to terms with their own problems. I speak from the perspective of a traumatized person.
Just my opinion.

Sometimes two intense/ suffering/ traumatized people are a great match for each other, even if it looks chaotic and awful to the outside world. It fulfills them somehow, either as a transitory union or a marriage. That chemistry is up to each couple to determine.. if it's what they want. Sometimes you grow from things you don't expect. I get that. I see you are processing things from various angles, so my rant probably won't help.. you seem alert to all of this already. I'm not really trying to offer advice as much as share my thoughts on this, and also mention that not all INFJ's are this way. The exes I had who were unmanageable were an ESFP, an ESFJ, and the ESTP was traumatized but more empathetic.


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> Good for you and fuck your self very much.


oh hahahaha, for you ripley...? _anything_. 

i'll get right on that.


----------



## infinity paradox

Through the something lost, something found, something let go and something refound... my mild disappointment cannot dent or even touch the peace and comfort that your kind presence brings me. Your eyes penetrate, your voice soothes. These things I've found out: We both have both, but I've seen that I give you my bravery and you give me your wisdom. Undefined, unrestricted. The thought of discovering, learning and growing with you at parallel helms, finding our fulcrums in ourselves and in one another, fills me with joy. I've never been this honest... 

I fear and delight in it, as a child might. 


~ Amistades que son ciertas, mantienen las puertas abiertas. ~


----------



## Animal

infinity paradox said:


> I've never been this honest...
> 
> I fear and delight in it, as a child might.


I know that feel..


----------



## 6007

Donovan said:


> oh hahahaha, for you ripley...? _anything_.
> 
> i'll get right on that.


use coconut oil. 
Prevent chafing and also feels good.


----------



## 6007

Animal said:


> @_ripley_
> My fiancé is likely an INFJ (in my opinion) and he is more reasonable than I am... and most people who know me in real life would actually consider me very sane. I splat my intense emotions in diaries, perc or artwork , so those who see me on perc might have the impression I'm tortured, insane and unruly. But.. that's just me processing and releasing my emotions in an environment where its harmless. On a day to day basis I can deal with a lot of pressure, stress and a chronic illness pretty smoothly, and solve my own problems, though I do open up to my fiancé because we love to support each other emotionally (this is not something I usually do). My fiancé is the same way I am, he deals with whatever comes. He has lots of emotions and passion but it's nothing like you describe.. he shares them in an open and honest way, but never puts his problems on me, outside the context of honest sharing.
> 
> I have dealt with men like that before, though. The insane brilliant tortured ones whose problems bring me down even while they also help me grow and inspire me. It's a tough thing to walk away from, when someone is honestly suffering and not torturing you out of cruel intent. But ultimately, this can't be explained away with type or trauma. Someone eventually has to come to terms with their own problems. I speak from the perspective of a traumatized person.
> Just my opinion.
> 
> Sometimes two intense/ suffering/ traumatized people are a great match for each other, even if it looks chaotic and awful to the outside world. It fulfills them somehow, either as a transitory union or a marriage. That chemistry is up to each couple to determine.. if it's what they want. Sometimes you grow from things you don't expect. I get that. I see you are processing things from various angles, so my rant probably won't help.. you seem alert to all of this already. I'm not really trying to offer advice as much as share my thoughts on this, and also mention that not all INFJ's are this way. The exes I had who were unmanageable were an ESFP, an ESFJ, and the ESTP was traumatized but more empathetic.


i appreciate your perspective. this is all really new to me. There's a lot I don't know and am trying to process. 
This guy is a spazz and really awesome but when he's upset of unhappy he is a nightmare. I don't mind dealing with real people having real feelings but not being able to clearly communicate or get clarity is challenging for me 
I am willing to grow and change. 

I think on some level I'm actually trying to become an ideal mate. Not a perfect person, but a good mate. When I look at my
life, that seems to be the overarching pattern.


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> use coconut oil.
> Prevent chafing and also feels good.


i would, but my dog would never leave me alone again... he's already too interested in crotch as it is, to risk all that nonsense.


----------



## 6007

Donovan said:


> i would, but my dog would never leave me alone again... he's already too interested in crotch as it is, to risk all that nonsense.


Hahahaaaaaaa. 
This makes me sad for your junk.


----------



## Donovan

ripley said:


> Hahahaaaaaaa.
> This makes me sad for your junk.


lol, don't be... 

he's not the only one interested in all of my wonderful equipment.  (hahahaha) 

my "junk" shall live to see another glorious day (he just likes to poke me in the crotch when i least expect it, with his big ass head and cold wet nose).


----------



## mimesis

ripley said:


> i appreciate your perspective. this is all really new to me. There's a lot I don't know and am trying to process.
> This guy is a spazz and really awesome but when he's upset of unhappy he is a nightmare. I don't mind dealing with real people having real feelings but not being able to clearly communicate or get clarity is challenging for me
> I am willing to grow and change.
> 
> I think on some level I'm actually trying to become an ideal mate. Not a perfect person, but a good mate. When I look at my
> life, that seems to be the overarching pattern.


Perhaps it's your tertiary Fe? Like emotional contagion, and unable to switch off empathizing?

Or do you mean moody, in being a bitch to you?


----------



## 6007

mimesis said:


> Perhaps it's your tertiary Fe? Like emotional contagion, and unable to switch off empathizing?
> 
> Or do you mean moody, in being a bitch to you?


The moodiness is, he's kind of mean and has a lot of shifting moods. So one day he's an utter delight and the next day he is quiet, brooding and surly... And it lasts minimum 2-3 days each time. He finally instructed me to simply not try and help, nor draw him out, because it's draining. He needs all of his mental energy to figure out what he's feeling and needing to do next. But while that's happening he can cycle between being down and still pleasant, to an adversarial little shit. He even agrees he's like a teenage girl who isn't allowed the car. But it isn't who is right or wrong nor bad or good, it's just that I've never experienced this and I'm basically feeling like I was pushed out of a moving car and I'm trying to figure out what to do. My ex had the emotional range and depth of a dead robot. 

And you make an excellent point to consider, thank you truly, this probably does set off my inferior Fe. It was only recently I even became ok with emotions in general, I was ok with my having them finding them absurd and not very important, but I deliberately picked partners with whom I wouldn't have to experience "drama" ie... Big feelings. 

Im a reasonably chill woman. I can vent my covert dramatic side in writing or in telling my feelings, but to people looking at me, I am low on drama. I don't need nor want dramatic highs and lows in my relationships, I want peace and comfort and giggles and a partner with whom life is a dream. The world itself is nightmarish enough, I turn to love for comfort not strife. Life is already bad theater and I'm not trying to be an understudy to a local theater diva.


----------



## 6007

Sudden epiphany.
if my partner is Ni-Ti looping, I can't be trying to take him on a walk and ask hella questions to clarify stuff. 
I need to take him to be around people and encourage him to box or something. 
The things that make me feel better, such as a walk, are just more information that makes him overwhelmed. 

Fucking duh.


----------



## Laguna

I'm Sx dom but Si inferior.
The more I am in my head with intuition or stressed out with all of the places I need to be at - and people I need to be in contact with - the less in tune with my body I become.
When I had a more balanced schedule of taking time for myself to exercise and meditate - I was so much more grounded.
I'm off kilter now.
My Si is so underdeveloped- that it is a scary place for me.
I want to be able to have zen moments. To have a spa day or a sexcapade day and be in the moment and feel the physical pleasures that life brings.
And I do.
But something is off. I am still nervous, anxiety-ridden, anxious and in my head.
I want to learn to fully let go of my mind and live in a current state of the "now" and be in touch with my physical senses.
I need a sensing cleanse - retreat. On a long scale. Like 2 weeks or more to just reconnect with my body.
Bucket list.


----------



## infinity paradox

ripley said:


> But it isn't who is right or wrong nor bad or good, it's just that I've never experienced this and I'm basically feeling like I was pushed out of a moving car and I'm trying to figure out what to do. My ex had the emotional range and depth of a dead robot.


Yeah, I'm no good at dealing with all the emotional "teenage girl" drama. I wasn't even this way when I was an actual teenage girl. 
Many men have found who I am hard to handle in that way as I'm not only stubborn and independent but I also have my "macho" or what my ex-fiance called my "fem-chismo" side, (i'm perfectly aware that one does not encompass the other) which involves a strong pride and a lot of ego that I don't like getting bruised. Besides all of that, I don't flaunt any of this usually unless I'm trying to make a statement as a writer/artist or I want you to be mine, which maybe isn't the right thing to do but I have this weird way of flaunting both highs and lows (highlights and flaws...), sometimes the flaws are highlights too, you know? .... Anyway...besides all this I also can't stand when a guy who is my partner is that moody or whiny... It drives me up the fucking wall... So I give you a lot of credit. I'm not being sarcastic, I mean that... I noticed too, that those type of whiny or moody guys will resent me for the qualities I listed above so even though I'm not trying to "one up" them, they can tend to feel that when out of defensiveness and furthermore, when that happens and they try to inflict something to damage my own ego to make themselves appear stronger or feel better I'm likely to be out with it and tell them how much better I am at being strong, logical, positive, not drowning in my emotions... 

So, I'd not enjoy and maybe not even be capable of handling that moodiness. That being said, emotional and passionate people don't bother me and I love someone who can be emotional, I just need them to not put their negative crap or whining all over me because it triggers my own anxiety and negative paranoid thinking. You were used to a "dead robot," and that's a huge change to going to someone who is not just emotional but apparently, a "moody moose buttons." I have tended to see more allure in evoking feeling from the dead robots because I have an interest in their minds and them as people but I also feel accomplished or special when I can pry up some "layers of machinery," and get to something human underneath.

Basically, you are trying to jump a huge chasm.



ripley said:


> And you make an excellent point to consider, thank you truly, this probably does set off my inferior Fe. It was only recently I even became ok with emotions in general, I was ok with my having them finding them absurd and not very important, but I deliberately picked partners with whom I wouldn't have to experience "drama" ie... Big feelings.


I don't think "big feelings" have to equate with drama, as I've tried to say above, but he seems like one hell of a case study.



ripley said:


> The world itself is nightmarish enough, I turn to love for comfort not strife. Life is already bad theater and I'm not trying to be an understudy to a local theater diva.


That last sentence made me smirk so hard.


----------



## 6007

infinity paradox said:


> Yeah, I'm no good at dealing with all the emotional "teenage girl" drama. I wasn't even this way when I was an actual teenage girl.
> Many men have found who I am hard to handle in that way as I'm not only stubborn and independent but I also have my "macho" or what my ex-fiance called my "fem-chismo" side, (i'm perfectly aware that one does not encompass the other) which involves a strong pride and a lot of ego that I don't like getting bruised. Besides all of that, I don't flaunt any of this usually unless I'm trying to make a statement as a writer/artist or I want you to be mine, which maybe isn't the right thing to do but I have this weird way of flaunting both highs and lows (highlights and flaws...), sometimes the flaws are highlights too, you know? .... Anyway...besides all this I also can't stand when a guy who is my partner is that moody or whiny... It drives me up the fucking wall... So I give you a lot of credit. I'm not being sarcastic, I mean that... I noticed too, that those type of whiny or moody guys will resent me for the qualities I listed above so even though I'm not trying to "one up" them, they can tend to feel that when out of defensiveness and furthermore, when that happens and they try to inflict something to damage my own ego to make themselves appear stronger or feel better I'm likely to be out with it and tell them how much better I am at being strong, logical, positive, not drowning in my emotions...
> 
> So, I'd not enjoy and maybe not even be capable of handling that moodiness. That being said, emotional and passionate people don't bother me and I love someone who can be emotional, I just need them to not put their negative crap or whining all over me because it triggers my own anxiety and negative paranoid thinking. You were used to a "dead robot," and that's a huge change to going to someone who is not just emotional but apparently, a "moody moose buttons." I have tended to see more allure in evoking feeling from the dead robots because I have an interest in their minds and them as people but I also feel accomplished or special when I can pry up some "layers of machinery," and get to something human underneath.
> 
> Basically, you are trying to jump a huge chasm.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think "big feelings" have to equate with drama, as I've tried to say above, but he seems like one hell of a case study.
> 
> 
> 
> That last sentence made me smirk so hard.


i appreciate your perspective so much, while it contrasts a bit with mine, I find it highly relatable. It gives me a lot to think about. 
My infj is an intriguing person, not so much whiny, which I wouldn't be able to stand, but definitely different than me. So my explanation of him is very much colored by my opinions and ideas, even tho I try to be neutral (haha good luck Ripley). 

There is a big difference between passion and drama, I simply lacked the nuance and subtlty to distinguish it. I'm very much out of my depth and I know it. We fought in an alleyway and I was so embarrassed it was like a meta moment... I could see us, him drunk and dramatic and me emotionally retarded and dramatic, fighting like I've only seen meat heads and yuppies fight, so silly and drunk and pointless. I veered between wanting to laugh mockingly at us both (I'm often of two to three minds about everything, the third being my higher self which cannot be bothered with human bs) and crying and wanting to actually die. OH THE DRAMA. 

We are complete fucktards when we fight.


----------



## Vanitas

The pull of wanting to merge is a Siren song that can only ends with the destruction of the ship. If I want to ... make right of it, I must resist.


----------



## 6007

I love taking my herbal drops, they are so helpful. 
I sometimes use kava, a stress manager, or a good mood mix. They are great.


----------



## 6007

Took infj to get interview clothes. 
we found some seriously good pieces. A shirt, a tie, a belt, and shoes. They fit beautifully and he looks wonderful in them. What is great is it only took two shops, because in the first they didn't have the shoes in his size, but in the second they had the shoes in a better color and we found a matching belt too. 
Ah, few things are as satisfying as buying men's clothes. 
I prefer it to shopping for myself. 
Infj isn't a clothes horse but does appreciate things that fit well and looking nice when it is called for. 
I figured a new outfit might give him extra confidence in the job search too, as everything he brought is very casual and his shoes not passable at all. Great for slouching around but not an interview. 
I hope he gets work soon, I don't mind paying for everything exactly but I prefer not to. I can tell he doesn't like it.


----------



## infinity paradox

I've been looking up phrases and proverbs in various languages.
This is one of my favourites...

Amores, dolores y dineros, No pueden estar secretos. 

Love, smoke and cough are hard to hide.


----------



## 6007

Girl at job interview was visibly disappointed when she realized infj was spoken for. Hahahaaa. Poor thing. 
He looked wonderful tho.


----------



## 6007

feeling a little burnt out, but not sure why.
Haven't showered yet today, maybe I need to clean off some funky energy or something.
I read my favorite science magazine, which, good, I need new material.
Watched my favorite tv show in bed with a naked man at my side.
All very good things, but something is missing.

I think I need more alone time, and perhaps nature. And yoga. 

The things that center me, I think.
Plus maybe some time with someone other than INFJ (henceforth, Byron), who is lovely, but everyone needs a break now and then.
I've been centering my life around him on certain days, driving him here and there and stuff, and usually I'm all alone and doing Ripley things. Boundaries are important. Spent an hour alone this morning just reading and chatting with friends so I think it's self-connection I need.

Sigh. 

This coffee is waaaaay too strong... just the way I like it.


----------



## 6007

Maybe a salon day would be good. 
He could do his Byronic things and I could get my hair taken care of and my eyebrows too. Perhaps mani pedi and also a massage. A nice treat for myself for living another year on earth.


----------



## Walden

Sex / foreplay is literally, like, literally constantly on my mind. I almost can't be bothered to interact w/ people unless there's a sexual undertone. It's almost crippling, honestly. 

I have a looooong list of fantasies and daring things to explore / try, and there seems to be a blending between me wanting to share these experiences with others / just blatantly using them for my satisfaction.


----------



## Vanitas

@_ripley_ Maybe re-centering/un-merging yourself is exactly what you need. When I start to not recognize myself due to merging, I panic and could do destructive things. 

Do you journal? I found it to be immensely helpful. To just pour (or vomit) often nameless thoughts into writing no one else would see.


----------



## 6007

Vanitas said:


> @_ripley_ Maybe re-centering/un-merging yourself is exactly what you need. When I start to not recognize myself due to merging, I panic and could do destructive things.
> 
> Do you journal? I found it to be immensely helpful. To just pour (or vomit) often nameless thoughts into writing no one else would see.


Posting on Perc is basically my journal. 
I have to write or I go nuts.


----------



## series0

Walden said:


> Sex / foreplay is literally, like, literally constantly on my mind. I almost can't be bothered to interact w/ people unless there's a sexual undertone. It's almost crippling, honestly.
> 
> I have a looooong list of fantasies and daring things to explore / try, and there seems to be a blending between me wanting to share these experiences with others / just blatantly using them for my satisfaction.


I struggle with the same issue. And friendly people make you want to ramp up to multiple fantasies immediately, but, um, jail.

What to do, what to do? Intensity scares the shit out of people. They only want it in small doses and on their schedule. Well that's not fucking good enough. Are Sxs not people to? Do we not get to require our schedule also of NOW NOW NOW!

Stupid slow unliving idiot non Sxs! No passion, no life, and always the limits limits limits. Fuck em! Oh, wait ... jail.


----------



## series0

Vanitas said:


> @_ripley_ Maybe re-centering/un-merging yourself is exactly what you need. When I start to not recognize myself due to merging, I panic and could do destructive things.
> 
> Do you journal? I found it to be immensely helpful. To just pour (or vomit) often nameless thoughts into writing no one else would see.


The illusion of the self is compelling and that ego fear thing demands to be recognized as separate. When you can integrate and not look back, you are truly at peace. Losing yourself is actually the goal.

Only the fear of the roller coaster prevents us from riding it. But, mama, that's where the fun is ...


----------



## infinity paradox

Because I wanted to be woken up from my Kitaro and lavender aromatherapy induced dream doze to deal with screaming, yelling , bullshit. Why do people insist on hanging on to a place long after the situation is dead. You won't leave me alone in one piece will you? You won't stop until I'm a scabbing, bleeding zombie .... I hope the lies you tell help. I tried to leave you behind months ago, peacefully, in friendship...but deep down...I knew you wouldn't stop until it was a WAR, a broken down blasted shitstorm of turmoil...so my fucking fists are up, there is no playing it both ways. Abiding is the only way to get temporary shelter, and that's generous because you don't even really deserve my friendship. 

Insecure people with no vision of their own always go for sabotage. I wish more of them had suicidal tendencies, instead. You're wasting the air I need.


----------



## Walden

series0 said:


> I struggle with the same issue. And friendly people make you want to ramp up to multiple fantasies immediately, but, um, jail.
> 
> What to do, what to do? Intensity scares the shit out of people. They only want it in small doses and on their schedule. Well that's not fucking good enough. Are Sxs not people to? Do we not get to require our schedule also of NOW NOW NOW!
> 
> Stupid slow unliving idiot non Sxs! No passion, no life, and always the limits limits limits. Fuck em! Oh, wait ... jail.


Honestly, this rings true for me even for non-sex things. Like, I'm always, always scared that I'll be way too much for people and smother them and scare them off. When I see someone I find interesting -- I just like want to consume that person on the spot -- look them in the eye and tell them some really intense shit but I know none of that rolls with most people.


----------



## series0

infinity paradox said:


> Because I wanted to be woken up from my Kitaro and lavender aromatherapy induced dream doze to deal with screaming, yelling , bullshit. Why do people insist on hanging on to a place long after the situation is dead. You won't leave me alone in one piece will you? You won't stop until I'm a scabbing, bleeding zombie .... I hope the lies you tell help. I tried to leave you behind months ago, peacefully, in friendship...but deep down...I knew you wouldn't stop until it was a WAR, a broken down blasted shitstorm of turmoil...so my fucking fists are up, there is no playing it both ways. Abiding is the only way to get temporary shelter, and that's generous because you don't even really deserve my friendship.
> 
> Insecure people with no vision of their own always go for sabotage. I wish more of them had suicidal tendencies, instead. You're wasting the air I need.


Get to a shelter and recollect yourself. Some people equate intensity with destruction only and fail to see the earthshatter moments of beauty and serenity. Adrenaline is not the only path ...


----------



## Vanitas

Walden said:


> Honestly, this rings true for me even for non-sex things. Like, I'm always, always scared that I'll be way too much for people and smother them and scare them off. When I see someone I find interesting -- I just like want to consume that person on the spot -- look them in the eye and tell them some really intense shit but I know none of that rolls with most people.


Find another Sx.


----------



## Quang

@Walden @series0

Can I see a sample of your handwritings (and ideally, signature as well)? It is possible identity if someone has strong libido from their handwriting

Just write in a way that feels most natural for you


----------



## infinity paradox

Watched my eyes go from holding beauty to having the monster in them, tonight. 


The worst part is when I see that, I hate myself more than I hate you. Because I let myself turn into this.


I have to see the potential for good. This will force me to push past the pain and fear into the beyond, where I need to be. Not just hold my peace in fleeting respite, but secure it at the center in glowing rest.

(( I'm exhausted. ))


----------



## infinity paradox

series0 said:


> Get to a shelter and recollect yourself. Some people equate intensity with destruction only and fail to see the earthshatter moments of beauty and serenity. Adrenaline is not the only path ...


 @series0
I agree that intensity can take many forms, and even adrenaline of different types can be good. However, in this situation some calming down was definitely in order. I used the term shelter to mean me giving the other shelter. I am in the process of finalizing a move out from a break up that has already happened and it's utter hell, I feel I offered every alternative and tried to part ways as friends. I have dealt with a lot of things I wish I didn't have to in the past, and mourned this relationship over and over already, so I know I need to be done and over with it, however he had tears and regrets in the end. I basically had to do a "it's too late," explanation about 20 times now, and he fluctuates between being appeasing, docile and worshiping and accusing, verbally abusive, and stalking / controlling. I've gotten everything from "I'm leaving to go fuck x female friend" to "let's start over and get married and go on the honeymoon you always wanted." *eyeroll* I don't think I need to leave my residence right now, even if I could. I feel I must stay put while figuring out long term logistics. For now: locking my door and re-setting my eggshell solace.


----------



## series0

infinity paradox said:


> For now: locking my door and re-setting my eggshell solace.


Good luck, regardless. I think I have been sort of on both sides of that situation. Mostly the side you are on now, if I read you right. Eggshells, despite their reputation, are fairly strong stuff. Work on your beaktooth.


----------



## series0

Vanitas said:


> Find another Sx.


You know I am fairly older now and I have to say, they suck as well. I mean, this world corners you, trains you to be careful. You meet another Sx, and I have to say, especially a woman, and they want fire immediately. But you are trained by the slow dull world of non-Sxs to take it carefully at first ...

Twisting and turning, your feelings are burning, you're breaking the girl ...

<Yawn> WTF! This one wasn't a little soft Faline and you acted the world version of you, as usual, instead of the real you. Now you know, but its Ichigo Ichie, muthafucka! Too bad, so sad. No soup for you!


----------



## 6007

Byron told me he awoke last night and was happy he was sleeping next to me. 
I felt the same thing yesterday morning.
It is nice to awake and find him there. 
Yoga today.

my enfp friend was trying to make a timeline for someone else's grief. I remember when my infp friend did the same for someone else. 
I've had a hard time understanding other people's ideas about intimacy and Grief. 
I feel like they take time.
you don't have instant intimacy. 
Instant connection sure. 
But you can't expect someone to be totally vulnerable right away. A little, yes, because that's part of the excitement of connection. But true intimacy takes time and there isn't a shortcut. 
Same with grief.
you don't get a shortcut. 
And you don't have the right to organize someone else's experience.

what is funny is both the enfp and infp seemed emotionally lightweight to me. Neither had experienced any trauma, not the kind that really touches and changes things, but they get to tell others how to bury their dead. arent you so cute.


----------



## Vanitas

series0 said:


> You know I am fairly older now and I have to say, they suck as well. I mean, this world corners you, trains you to be careful. You meet another Sx, and I have to say, especially a woman, and they want fire immediately. But you are trained by the slow dull world of non-Sxs to take it carefully at first ...
> 
> Twisting and turning, your feelings are burning, you're breaking the girl ...
> 
> <Yawn> WTF! This one wasn't a little soft Faline and you acted the world version of you, as usual, instead of the real you. Now you know, but its Ichigo Ichie, muthafucka! Too bad, so sad. No soup for you!


But atleast both of you suffer together. My new/current SO-- I'm quite certain he's an Sx dom (probably Sx/Sp) and we're taking it slow/way too fast/I don't even know anymore.

He wants to merge/smother/absorb and it's tempting not to resist. But I could tell he's holding back as well, so.


----------



## Laguna

It's probably hormone fueled, but feeling like I'm bursting with sexual energy, affection - like a love bomb. I want to caress and love and please.

:couple_inlove::smileys-sunbathing-:love_heart:


----------



## Laguna

ripley said:


> Byron told me he awoke last night and was happy he was sleeping next to me.
> I felt the same thing yesterday morning.
> It is nice to awake and find him there.
> Yoga today.
> 
> *my enfp friend was trying to make a timeline for someone else's grief. *I remember when my infp friend did the same for someone else.
> I've had a hard time understanding other people's ideas about intimacy and Grief.
> I feel like they take time.
> you don't have instant intimacy.
> Instant connection sure.
> But you can't expect someone to be totally vulnerable right away. A little, yes, because that's part of the excitement of connection. But true intimacy takes time and there isn't a shortcut.
> Same with grief.
> you don't get a shortcut.
> And you don't have the right to organize someone else's experience.
> 
> what is funny is both the enfp and infp seemed emotionally lightweight to me. Neither had experienced any trauma, not the kind that really touches and changes things, but they get to tell others how to bury their dead. arent you so cute.


Yeah that sounds rough.
On one hand, ENFPs are absolutely driven to cheer up our sad friends. To make people see the light in every dark cloud. But I hear you. If you haven't experienced soul crushing grief, you don't know what it is. Also- my worst grief in life was like absolute torture for 1 year. Others have experienced less than me with similar loss. Some more. You don't know till you get there.


----------



## 6007

A different infp friend went through a very traumatic experience and his girlfriend can often be heard saying "it's been four years... Why isn't he over it yet?" 

I dont feel feel like that's a question to ask, but I'm not sure why. There has been growth and change, he hasn't been living in a bubble for three or four years. He has done new stuff. 

Meanwhile she has never been married. Never been in love. Never really done much. 

This is other guy, never married, never had a LTR, tried to tell me after eight months I should get over my separation and divorce. 
I was like... Thank you for you input, hypocrite. You live at home, are 30, and always complaining and doing absolutely nothing but ok, I will totally work on myself because of your amazing insight. 

The only thing I can see as the common denominator is that the sadness and grief of X infringe on the fun of Y so why tries to stop it. 
My infp friend wanted her friend to stop grieving his dead mother already. 
My enfp friend wants her new lover to stop grieving his dead fiancée. 
My ISFP friend wants the infp to stop mourning his 17 year marriage and betrayal. 
all because yes, they wanna see this other person be happy but also other people are less fun when they are sad. 

I lost many friends due to divorce. But if you can't handle me being a mopey whorish mess, we aren't gonna get along when I'm awesome either. Trauma definitely shows who your real friends are.


----------



## series0

Vanitas said:


> But atleast both of you suffer together. My new/current SO-- I'm quite certain he's an Sx dom (probably Sx/Sp) and we're taking it slow/way too fast/I don't even know anymore.
> 
> He wants to merge/smother/absorb and it's tempting not to resist. But I could tell he's holding back as well, so.


Well no, I mean ichigo ichie, as in the woman gives you one shot only and if you don't wow her you do not get the second chance. It's some sort of perfection expectation I've noticed with Sxs ... grrrrr, so, you're lucky.


----------



## Walden

Quang said:


> @Walden @series0
> 
> Can I see a sample of your handwritings (and ideally, signature as well)? It is possible identity if someone has strong libido from their handwriting
> 
> Just write in a way that feels most natural for you


----------



## Quang

Walden said:


> View attachment 472562


This is the LEAST 8ish handwriting I have ever seen so far. There is too much inhibition compared to 8's self-assertion. Your sample suggests a friendly, amiable, cooperative, accommodating, and patient disposition. The sexual drive is nothing outstanding and it seems very 269ish.


----------



## Walden

Quang said:


> This is the LEAST 8ish handwriting I have ever seen so far. There is too much inhibition compared to 8's self-assertion. Your sample suggests a friendly, amiable, cooperative, accommodating, and patient disposition. The sexual drive is nothing outstanding and it seems very 269ish.


Interesting analysis. Put it next to my mom's -- identical. She's clinically verified as an 8. There goes that handwriting theory


----------



## 6007

Smoking cigars in the tub rocks my world


----------



## Little_Bird

Hey, just a annoyed SX Dom here, but, WHY DOES NO ONE AROUND ME WANT A DEEP, MEANINGFUL, MY-FEELINGS-FEEL-NAKED-AROUND-YOU-BUT-I-STILL-FEEL-SAFE-RELATIONSHIP??? Isn't that a life goal everyone should have? Why are so many people afraid of getting into that deep of a relationship, romantic or not?? Someone give me another plausible reason besides "afraid of getting hurt" because I've been broken many times and somehow still manage to evolve back into a unicorn. 

Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace Face

Little_Bird said:


> Hey, just a annoyed SX Dom here, but, WHY DOES NO ONE AROUND ME WANT A DEEP, MEANINGFUL, MY-FEELINGS-FEEL-NAKED-AROUND-YOU-BUT-I-STILL-FEEL-SAFE-RELATIONSHIP??? Isn't that a life goal everyone should have? Why are so many people afraid of getting into that deep of a relationship, romantic or not?? Someone give me another plausible reason besides "afraid of getting hurt" because I've been broken many times and somehow still manage to evolve back into a unicorn.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk


Fear is an interesting emotion. I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling fear at all. In a lot of ways, fear can be a very healthy thing. The thing is though, that some of us choose to face our fears and talk ourselves through them, and some of us choose to run from them. These days, the number of people choosing to face them seems to be rapidly declining. A lot of people really underestimate what they're capable of, and hinder themselves from fulfilling their greater potential by giving in to fear. Not everyone chooses to replace that fear of being hurt with hope--the hope of having a positive, enriching, life-changing experience that you can learn from and grow from. If you think this way, and it seems that you do--congrats, you're one of the rare ones <3


----------



## Little_Bird

Ace Face said:


> Fear is an interesting emotion. I don't think there's anything wrong with feeling fear at all. In a lot of ways, fear can be a very healthy thing. The thing is though, that some of us choose to face our fears and talk ourselves through them, and some of us choose to run from them. These days, the number of people choosing to face them seems to be rapidly declining. A lot of people really underestimate what they're capable of, and hinder themselves from fulfilling their greater potential by giving in to fear. Not everyone chooses to replace that fear of being hurt with hope--the hope of having a positive, enriching, life-changing experience that you can learn from and grow from. If you think this way, and it seems that you do--congrats, you're one of the rare ones <3


That makes me understand a little more, thank you! I guess all I have to do to help the people around me to stop feeling that way is 

1) Let them see that there is no reason to fear when someone has shown to love and care for you. 
2) Pain and hurt are part of life and help us grow. 
3) This.









Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk


----------



## Animal

Walden said:


> clinically verified


???? what?


----------



## Ace Face

Animal said:


> ???? what?


I would assume that he means someone enneagram certified typed her as an 8. I don't think judging his type based on his handwriting is a good idea, and I don't think letting somebody else---enneagram certified or not--type you is a good idea either. I think people should just leave him alone about it. It's his journey... let him have at it.


----------



## Veggie

Ace Face said:


> I would assume that he means someone enneagram certified typed her as an 8. I don't think judging his type based on his handwriting is a good idea, and I don't think letting somebody else---enneagram certified or not--type you is a good idea either. I think people should just leave him alone about it. It's his journey... let him have at it.


I would love to see the people who think that they're enneagram experts _here_ have it out with those who are in some way enneagram "certified" ...out there...lol.

It would maybe make my life a little.

I want a ring. And C-SPAN.


----------



## Kintsugi

I'm just going to vent here....because.

I'm feeling really angry right now but I don't know how to express it. I just got engaged. I'm trying to plan a "quick" wedding (have to be married within 3-4 months because of visa restrictions), and am finding it hard to do so without a strong mother figure in my life. I just wish I had someone I could go to and tell them about how happy I am and for them to hold me close and tell me how proud they are of me, and reassure me that everything will be ok.

It's so fucking hard. Mothering yourself.

Ugh.


----------



## Ace Face

The Perfect Storm said:


> I'm just going to vent here....because.
> 
> I'm feeling really angry right now but I don't know how to express it. I just got engaged. I'm trying to plan a "quick" wedding (have to be married within 3-4 months because of visa restrictions), and am finding it hard to do so without a strong mother figure in my life. I just wish I had someone I could go to and tell them about how happy I am and for them to hold me close and tell me how proud they are of me, and reassure me that everything will be ok.
> 
> It's so fucking hard. Mothering yourself.
> 
> Ugh.


Come to Acey. I know EXACTLY what you're going through. We can give each other some tips on how to plan this shit. There's so much to cover!


----------



## Animal

Ace Face said:


> I would assume that he means someone enneagram certified typed her as an 8. I don't think judging his type based on his handwriting is a good idea, and I don't think letting somebody else---enneagram certified or not--type you is a good idea either. I think people should just leave him alone about it. It's his journey... let him have at it.


I have no problem with anyone "having at" their typing journey. But @_Quang_ offered to do an analysis and @_Walden_ accepted the offer and sent a sample, inviting @_Quang_ to type him. Then he didn't like the response, which is fine - there's no rule that anyone has to agree. But personally, if someone offered to analyze me, I would at least thank them for the attempt, even if I didn't agree with their assessment or challenged the method. Quang offering a suggestion based on handwriting - which Walden provided willingly- is in no way hindering a typing journey, but rather, offering welcome input.



Veggie said:


> I would love to see the people who think that they're enneagram experts _here_ have it out with those who are in some way enneagram "certified" ...out there...lol.


The certified enneagram experts can't even agree on celebrity typings... so it's clear there is no "One Great Authority," here or anywhere else.


----------



## Veggie

Animal said:


> The certified enneagram experts can't even agree on celebrity typings... so it's clear there is no "One Great Authority," here or anywhere else.


I know


----------



## Ace Face

Animal said:


> I have no problem with anyone "having at" their typing journey. But @_Quang_ offered to do an analysis and @_Walden_ accepted the offer and sent a sample, inviting @_Quang_ to type him. Then he didn't like the response, which is fine - there's no rule that anyone has to agree. But personally, if someone offered to analyze me, I would at least thank them for the attempt, even if I didn't agree with their assessment or challenged the method. Quang offering a suggestion based on handwriting - which Walden provided willingly- is in no way hindering a typing journey, but rather, offering welcome input.


I completely agree with you said here, but I don't understand how you responding to "clinically verified" with "???? what?" has anything to do with urging him to be thankful for the fact that Quang took time out of his day to analyze it for him.


----------



## Vanitas

series0 said:


> Well no, I mean ichigo ichie, as in the woman gives you one shot only and if you don't wow her you do not get the second chance. It's some sort of perfection expectation I've noticed with Sxs ... grrrrr, so, you're lucky.


.... In some ways I was impressed by how it came together, I suppose. It felt more like 'fate' than effort, though. A series of coincidences that forced me (us?) to consider the prospect somewhat more seriously. Sxs want to feel drawn maybe, a sense of losing control? It doesn't have to be perfect, just _different_ enough that it.. stands out?

Then the Sp part freaks out and calls mayday.


----------



## Walden

What lol, Y'all need to chill

I was of the impression I was helping someone with data inputs on a topic they're curious about -- something something libido and handwriting. Nowhere did I open an invitation for unsolicited personality typing advice. I already have a thread for that elsewhere on this forum. What's more is I vaguely recall someone on this site quoting some rules at some point about something something unsolicited personality advice -- but that's fine, I really don't care.

I don't owe anyone anything. In fact, I deserve a thank you for taking the time out of my day to sample my handwriting, take a photo, transfer it to my computer, upload it, then post it here -- all to help someone. You've got my sample, you don't want to thank me, that's fine. Let's move on to more important things in our lives. Thanks.


----------



## Walden

Quang said:


> @Walden @series0
> 
> *Can I see a sample of your handwritings (and ideally, signature as well)? It is possible identity if someone has strong libido from their handwriting*
> 
> Just write in a way that feels most natural for you


Here's the source, clear for everyone to see. Hope that clears things up.


----------



## Walden

On a side note, I read a bit into handwriting and personality and looked at my notes from class out of curiosity: 







According to this ... 

Average letter size : well-adjusted and adaptable
Wide spacing between words : enjoy freedom, don't like being overwhelmed or crowded
Wide L loops : I'm relaxed, spontaneous, and self-expression comes easily
Narrow e loops : I tend to be skeptical of others, I tend not to be swayed by the emotions of others.
I dot high over the i : I have a great imagination
T is crossed near the middle with long crosses : I'm confident, feel comfortable in my own skin, am determined, enthusiastic, and can tend to be stubborn / have a hard time letting things go. 
Heavy pressure writing : I'm good with commitment, take things seriously. 
I write slow : means I'm organized, methodical, and self-reliant. 

Seems like a mix of a bunch of random personality traits to me. Source : What does your handwriting say about you? Study finds more than 5,000 personality traits are linked to how we write | Daily Mail Online

And in terms of libido : apparently I've got a medium sex drive and feel fulfilled in my sex-life... 
source : Sex drive and handwriting analysis: Find out a writer's physical energy

Well, there you have it. :wink:


----------



## Veggie

Was pulling up old (ish...) news articles today. Probably not normal to feel as confused as I do when I read them. Instead of just sad, mad, whatever humans are supposed to feel. Or to wonder if I "care" as some kind of...excuse...to be this ineffective human being. Or because I'm this sicko who gets off on the sensationalism.

Or to feel as generally confused over many things which most people would probably feel nostalgic about to some degree as I do. 

I feel like someone just took a shit over my entire life. And I have no right. Because I, like, never saw someone die directly before me in Afghanistan.

Since that's the only way to experience "real" trauma...

I want to write the story about Frodo never leaving the Shire and not being able to go back. How would that one even work? There's a mind fuck for ya...


----------



## infinity paradox

ripley said:


> A different infp friend went through a very traumatic experience and his girlfriend can often be heard saying "it's been four years... Why isn't he over it yet?"
> 
> I dont feel feel like that's a question to ask, but I'm not sure why. There has been growth and change, he hasn't been living in a bubble for three or four years. He has done new stuff.
> 
> Meanwhile she has never been married. Never been in love. Never really done much.
> 
> This is other guy, never married, never had a LTR, tried to tell me after eight months I should get over my separation and divorce.
> I was like... Thank you for you input, hypocrite. You live at home, are 30, and always complaining and doing absolutely nothing but ok, I will totally work on myself because of your amazing insight.
> 
> The only thing I can see as the common denominator is that the sadness and grief of X infringe on the fun of Y so why tries to stop it.
> My infp friend wanted her friend to stop grieving his dead mother already.
> My enfp friend wants her new lover to stop grieving his dead fiancée.
> My ISFP friend wants the infp to stop mourning his 17 year marriage and betrayal.
> all because yes, they wanna see this other person be happy but also other people are less fun when they are sad.
> 
> I lost many friends due to divorce. But if you can't handle me being a mopey whorish mess, we aren't gonna get along when I'm awesome either. Trauma definitely shows who your real friends are.


It's stupid to judge people by their grief process. Sometimes you never get over it. When I love someone, I love them. I don't think deep heartbreak ever really goes away completely, you just find ways to deal with it. People would shake their heads or look at me funny or even say the words "that's crazy," that I was still mourning my first real heartbreak 10 years later. Luckily, I have had some real friends who understand the depths of losing a true connection when everything else in the world feels alien. Thank all the Cosmos for those people and fuck the rest  It's so so true that if they can't take you at your worst, that they don''t deserve you at your best.


----------



## infinity paradox

The Perfect Storm said:


> I'm just going to vent here....because.
> 
> I'm feeling really angry right now but I don't know how to express it. I just got engaged. I'm trying to plan a "quick" wedding (have to be married within 3-4 months because of visa restrictions), and am finding it hard to do so without a strong mother figure in my life. I just wish I had someone I could go to and tell them about how happy I am and for them to hold me close and tell me how proud they are of me, and reassure me that everything will be ok.
> 
> It's so fucking hard. Mothering yourself.
> 
> Ugh.


I know how it feels to have to mother yourself, too. I can only imagine planning a wedding and wishing you had that guiding figure and lacking it. *hug*


----------



## Veggie

infinity paradox said:


> Luckily, I have had some real friends who understand the depths of losing a true connection when everything else in the world feels alien.


Edit: Aliens as true connections. True connections as aliens. Stuff like that.


----------



## series0

Little_Bird said:


> Hey, just a annoyed SX Dom here, but, WHY DOES NO ONE AROUND ME WANT A DEEP, MEANINGFUL, MY-FEELINGS-FEEL-NAKED-AROUND-YOU-BUT-I-STILL-FEEL-SAFE-RELATIONSHIP??? Isn't that a life goal everyone should have? Why are so many people afraid of getting into that deep of a relationship, romantic or not?? Someone give me another plausible reason besides "afraid of getting hurt" because I've been broken many times and somehow still manage to evolve back into a unicorn.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H345 using Tapatalk


I really do sincerely thank you for you relating the ability to re-emerge after pain and circumstance. To me this is the failing of so many people and I have to say, especially women. The getting burned or hurt or emotionally wounded and being simply UNABLE or UNWILLING after years of effort and therapy and soul-searching and ... whatever, to work up even one iota of energy to re-open the flower of light and wonder and passion for life that is required to have any real ... COURAGE.

These days COURAGE is almost absent in the world. It is our culture to shrink or whine in offendedness to everything. There is no defiant flower! I have a stubborn camelia in my yard. It was a great bush at one time but something almost killed it. It is now a scraggle of dead branches and I did eventually trim it back to the trunk. But for a long time and since, that little nub strives with all its might and every year produces an amazing flower. Just 1. But it damn well does it. It re-opens to life, to possibility, to meaning.

Cheers!


----------



## Kintsugi

infinity paradox said:


> I know how it feels to have to mother yourself, too. I can only imagine planning a wedding and wishing you had that guiding figure and lacking it. *hug*


Thanks. :')

I felt for a long time that I could deal with it, like I'm invincible; and then something major like this comes along which painfully reminds me how scary and traumatising it can be to face these hurdles without that supportive and nurturing figure in my life.

All of a sudden I feel like a little lost child again. >_<


----------



## Veggie

series0 said:


> I really do sincerely thank you for you relating the ability to re-emerge after pain and circumstance. To me this is the failing of so many people and I have to say, especially women. The getting burned or hurt or emotionally wounded and being simply UNABLE or UNWILLING after years of effort and therapy and soul-searching and ... whatever, to work up even one iota of energy to re-open the flower of light and wonder and passion for life that is required to have any real ... COURAGE.
> 
> These days COURAGE is almost absent in the world. It is our culture to shrink or whine in offendedness to everything. There is no defiant flower! I have a stubborn camelia in my yard. It was a great bush at one time but something almost killed it. It is now a scraggle of dead branches and I did eventually trim it back to the trunk. But for a long time and since, that little nub strives with all its might and every year produces an amazing flower. Just 1. But it damn well does it. It re-opens to life, to possibility, to meaning.
> 
> Cheers!


Edit: Actually, I don't feel like getting into it.


----------



## Superfluous

"Words have a lot of power. Life and death are in the tongue. I try to always speak life. You know if someone has a good heart or a bad heart by what they say about innocent people."


----------



## Vanitas

@_Little_Bird_ @_series0_ I realized at some point that one can _choose_ not to be jaded -- without being unwise. Around late 20s - early 30s (or even lower), it seemed that plenty women are already burnt by disappointing LTRs, or by prolonged loneliness/feeling of rejection, or by a failed marriage (there must be other reasons, of course). It's probably happening to men as well?

It might be simply because it is _easier_ to be wary, to suspect others are out to hurt you, to not try at all, to-- basically, to burden a new prospect with the sins of those who came before. 

It is, I'll admit, infinitely _harder_ to start over, to keep your eyes open to signs (red flags, tendencies you wouldn't like) without.. expecting their existence to be a certainty, to admit even with all you've been through and everything you've learned, it might still not work. And you'll get hurt. People don't like being vulnerable, it's human nature to avoid (the possibility of) pain. 

Not being jaded is not an easy choice to make, but the option is there.


----------



## karmachameleon

Last night at this party, i talked to the girl in my class' ex bf all night and i think she hates me now, she stared a lot. though she tried to make out with his best friend lol
i kind of enjoyed it


----------



## series0

Vanitas said:


> @_Little_Bird_ @_series0_ I realized at some point that one can _choose_ not to be jaded -- without being unwise. Around late 20s - early 30s (or even lower), it seemed that plenty women are already burnt by disappointing LTRs, or by prolonged loneliness/feeling of rejection, or by a failed marriage (there must be other reasons, of course). It's probably happening to men as well?
> 
> It might be simply because it is _easier_ to be wary, to suspect others are out to hurt you, to not try at all, to-- basically, to burden a new prospect with the sins of those who came before.
> 
> It is, I'll admit, infinitely _harder_ to start over, to keep your eyes open to signs (red flags, tendencies you wouldn't like) without.. expecting their existence to be a certainty, to admit even with all you've been through and everything you've learned, it might still not work. And you'll get hurt. People don't like being vulnerable, it's human nature to avoid (the possibility of) pain.
> 
> Not being jaded is not an easy choice to make, but the option is there.


Well said and i think it's important to realize that life is indeed very short. Wisdom takes a long time to learn and if Kohlberg is to be believed, and I do believe him, most people NEVER get it. So that means we are progressing still VERY slowly towards wisdom as a species. Reopening is wise, and if you follow my leaning, reopening quickly wiser still. There is a concept of fake reopening or being truly unready and that is different. If one has courage and is progressing quickly then there is a natural pace that cannot be overturned or should not be speeded up past that ideally. But most people lack the courage and are slow to try or lazy or content to wallow in negative pools of emotional doom. They also have other patterns that are fail patterns. The quick fix is typical. Not yet open and yet pretending to be, or hiding in someone's private garden. It is not enough. This is the reason for healers and challengers and for courage within oneself. And I see all these elements of wisdom so seldom that I am very thankful when I do.


----------



## Veggie

series0 said:


> Well said and i think it's important to realize that life is indeed very short. Wisdom takes a long time to learn and if Kohlberg is to be believed, and I do believe him, most people NEVER get it. So that means we are progressing still VERY slowly towards wisdom as a species. Reopening is wise, and if you follow my leaning, reopening quickly wiser still. There is a concept of fake reopening or being truly unready and that is different. If one has courage and is progressing quickly then there is a natural pace that cannot be overturned or should not be speeded up past that ideally. But most people lack the courage and are slow to try or lazy or content to wallow in negative pools of emotional doom. They also have other patterns that are fail patterns. The quick fix is typical. Not yet open and yet pretending to be, or hiding in someone's private garden. It is not enough. This is the reason for healers and challengers and for courage within oneself. And I see all these elements of wisdom so seldom that I am very thankful when I do.


And so I'm guessing you place yourself in the courageous category of open non jaded people even though you judge "most" people, and especially women, as being lazy or content to wallow in negative pools of emotional doom?


----------



## heaveninawildflower

infinity paradox said:


> It's stupid to judge people by their grief process. Sometimes you never get over it. When I love someone, I love them. I don't think deep heartbreak ever really goes away completely, you just find ways to deal with it



I agree. I have had others treat me like I should not be grieving anymore, like there is a time limit on grief. Grief is something I have had to learn to live with. The hardest was the loss of two of my children (my daughter was in her teens when she died years ago, and my stepson was in his early 20's when he died just over a year ago).... I still have days when I feel the ache of grief, when my tears need to speak of how much I miss them. Grief does not know time. 

Something I wrote a few years after my daughter died...
View attachment 472954


----------



## Vermillion

There's a new wavering spark that is starting up, and common sense and prudence tells me I have to snuff it out, but I can't. I just can't. Not right now anyway, not even if it swallows me whole and drenches me in misery and desperation.

It feels so awful and so GOOD.


----------



## series0

Veggie said:


> And so I'm guessing you place yourself in the courageous category of open non jaded people even though you judge "most" people, and especially women, as being lazy or content to wallow in negative pools of emotional doom?


Lo, of course. No, the truth is, I've done my fair share of wallowing so I am well acquainted with the failure. I am trying to lend a cautionary tale ...


----------



## Animal

Ace Face said:


> I completely agree with you said here, but I don't understand how you responding to "clinically verified" with "???? what?" has anything to do with urging him to be thankful for the fact that Quang took time out of his day to analyze it for him.


It has to do with my skepticism about saying someone was "clinically verified." Calling something 'clinical' implies that there is a disease, and involvement with a medical field. Enneagram is not about having mental or physical illnesses, so claiming that one's typing was "clinically verified" not only is irrelevant (because five enneagram practitioners might type someone five different ways), but also implies something off base about enneagram; that it's a medical diagnosis. So the statement read to me as bullshit on two counts. Him being rude was a side note that I added later.

Simple Definition of clinical
Popularity: Top 40% of words



: relating to or based on work done with real patients : of or relating to the medical treatment that is given to patients in hospitals, clinics, etc.

: requiring treatment as a medical problem

: of or relating to a place where medical treatment is given : of or relating to a clinic


Full Definition of clinical
1: of, relating to, or conducted in or as if in a clinic: asa : involving direct observation of the patientb : based on or characterized by observable and diagnosable symptoms

2: analytical or coolly dispassionate


----------



## Walden

Animal said:


> It has to do with my skepticism about saying someone was "clinically verified." Calling something 'clinical' implies that there is a disease, and involvement with a medical field. Enneagram is not about having mental or physical illnesses, so claiming that one's typing was "clinically verified" not only is irrelevant (because five enneagram practitioners might type someone five different ways), but also implies something off base about enneagram; that it's a medical diagnosis. So the statement read to me as bullshit on two counts. Him being rude was a side note that I added later.
> 
> Simple Definition of clinical
> Popularity: Top 40% of words
> 
> 
> 
> : relating to or based on work done with real patients : of or relating to the medical treatment that is given to patients in hospitals, clinics, etc.
> 
> : requiring treatment as a medical problem
> 
> : of or relating to a place where medical treatment is given : of or relating to a clinic
> 
> 
> Full Definition of clinical
> 1: of, relating to, or conducted in or as if in a clinic: asa : involving direct observation of the patientb : based on or characterized by observable and diagnosable symptoms
> 
> 2: analytical or coolly dispassionate


Ok seriously? Like, you don't have better things to do than to cling onto specific words and argue over it for days now, pulling out definitions and shit? I mean don't you have more going on in your life? Aren't there more interesting things to talk about? 

Had I used the specific wordage "professionally verified" would you be sitting here doing the same thing? Does it really matter this much to you? Why? 

It's "all good in the hood" with me, I've got no issues -- the other dude doesn't seem to have issues either. Not sure why you're perpetuating this empty argument. Let's move on. Maybe it's an sx thing eh?


----------



## Vanitas

I decided to trust you. 

_For now. _


----------



## Animal

Walden said:


> Ok seriously? Like, you don't have better things to do than to cling onto specific words and argue over it for days now, pulling out definitions and shit? I mean don't you have more going on in your life? Aren't there more interesting things to talk about?
> 
> Had I used the specific wordage "professionally verified" would you be sitting here doing the same thing? Does it really matter this much to you? Why?
> 
> It's "all good in the hood" with me, I've got no issues -- the other dude doesn't seem to have issues either. Not sure why you're perpetuating this empty argument. Let's move on. Maybe it's an sx thing eh?


I was asked a question and I answered it. Happy to move on.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

Damn I wish you'd shut the fuck up.


----------



## Angina Jolie

I kinda actually love that its impossible to explain to others our bond and understanding without receiving judgment. And that most of the people we know would never achieve that bond due to that judgment. Screw them, they know nothing of relevance.


----------



## 6007

Superfluous said:


> "Words have a lot of power. Life and death are in the tongue. I try to always speak life. You know if someone has a good heart or a bad heart by what they say about innocent people."


I don't know you personally but my affectionate side was like 

hey, fuckface, I love what you wrote. 

But since I don't know you well enough yet to call you a fuckface with love, I will just say, I really liked this. 
Like, a lot.


----------



## 6007

It is often challenging for me to tweeze out the exact reasons why I do anything. Very often, it seems like there are at least five different reasons for every choice I make, each as important as the last. I owe my ex-husband a large sum of money, which I just found out about two months ago. I haven't paid him. Partly because i needed to earn the money, partly because I had to verify I owe what is said I owe, partly bexause I absorbed his money fears, and partly because I am enjoying dragging it out. 

As pathetic as it is, passive aggressive foot dragging is enjoyable. I know him well enough to know that money drama really really bothers him. And since he was so cruel and unkind to me when I was having my major depressive disorder or episode, making him suffer is hilarious to me. I realize this is not a good thing, and that is an ugly quality within me, but it is also true and I am what I am.


----------



## Rala

The fear of being abandoned and forsaken is literally killing me. Slowly. I can't sleep and many times I wake up crying at night out of nowhere for hours. "Ghost" emotions and memories flood me and suddenly I feel like I am a scared child again. I know I am a coward because I don't always have the courage it takes to be present with myself when this happens. Exercise, food and imagination are my escape. But lately there's been no energy whatsoever and I've being feeling dead inside. But I've finally let myself sink into all that despair and fear last night and cried for hours. It's hard for me to let this happen and re live everything, because for a moment there, I feel lost and powerless again, broken and beaten down. And *forsaken*. Forsaken is a word I have imprinted deep inside of me. I feel like it is going to follow me my whole life, I'll never fully get rid of this fear. I don't know how to save the forsaken child in me. I want to but she doesn't believe, so how can I? I wish people were more kind to me when I needed it. So I am going to be more kind to myself and people. More understanding and more accepting. I also wish people would have really SEEN me. So I swear one of my biggest desires and goals while on this Earth is to be seen and to see people. Transparency. My heart longs for it.


----------



## cinnabun

<3 <3 <3

Verryyyyyyyyyyyy happy with how things are going:kitteh:.


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> The fear of being abandoned and forsaken is literally killing me. Slowly. I can't sleep and many times I wake up crying at night out of nowhere for hours. "Ghost" emotions and memories flood me and suddenly I feel like I am a scared child. I know I am a coward because I don't always have the courage it takes to be present with myself when this happens. Exercise, food and imagination are my escape. But lately there's been no energy whatsoever and I've being feeling dead inside. But I've finally let myself sink into all that despair and fear last night and cried for hours. It's hard for me to let this happen and re live everything, because for a moment there, I feel lost and powerless again, broken and beaten down. And *forsaken*. Forsaken is a word I have imprinted deep inside of me. I feel like it is going to follow me my whole life, I'll never fully get rid of this fear. I don't know how to save the forsaken child in me. I want to but she doesn't believe, so how can I? I wish people were more kind to me when I needed it. So I am going to be more kind with myself and people. More understanding and more accepting. I also wish people would have really SEEN me. So I swear one of my biggest desires and goals while on this Earth is to be seen and to see people. Transparency. My heart longs for it.


Reading this post, this song just popped into my head..







In my early 20s, I used to splatter paint all over a page and then surround the edges in a jagged manner with a felt-tip pen. It created a strange vibe. One of the paintings I did was those words: *You Don't See Me* - scrawled across the page in multiple colors with edges hanging off, each sub-sub section surrounded by black felt tip pen. Very dramatic. Each painting took several hours so that phrase was obviously important to me. 

*hug*


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Reading this post, this song just popped into my head..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my early 20s, I used to splatter paint all over a page and then surround the edges in a jagged manner with a felt-tip pen. It created a strange vibe. One of the paintings I did was those words: *You Don't See Me* - scrawled across the page in multiple colors with edges hanging off, each sub-sub section surrounded by black felt tip pen. Very dramatic. Each painting took several hours so that phrase was obviously important to me.
> 
> *hug*


Love the song, fits with the way I'm feeling.

Not dramatic at all. Many people have accused me of exaggerating, many people can go fuck themselves. I happen to want to really feel everything. Hell, I happen to not be able to help it. And I also happen to find some things that some people don't focus much on of great importance. Like being *seen*.

*hug*


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> Love the song, fits with the way I'm feeling.
> 
> Not dramatic at all. Many people have accused me of exaggerating, many people can go fuck themselves. I happen to want to really feel everything. Hell, I happen to not being able to help it. And I also happen to find some things that some people don't focus much on of great importance. Like being *seen*.
> 
> *hug*


Me too. I cried so hard for more than an hour in my lover's arms last week because I was so heartbroken that I sucked at communicating and nobody would ever see me as I am because I fail to communicate it.... and what set me off was a series of miscommunications and finally someone I care for deeply who, at that moment, didn't _see_ me, despite my attempt to explain. Being seen as I am, honest and bare, is of central importance to me. But I know it's up to me to make it happen. 

(And this is what I mean when I say my life purpose is to "polish the vessel." To be a vessel through which my soul is expressed.)

When I said 'dramatic' I was describing the quality of the painting - but I did not mean that in a bad way. I agree with you - what some people call 'drama,' I call _life_.


----------



## Vermillion

This fucking longing is going to kill me and I'm already being driven crazy and restless with energy. 

I feel like I have never truly lived and I have no idea how.


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Me too. I cried so hard for more than an hour in my lover's arms last week because I was so heartbroken that I sucked at communicating and nobody would ever see me as I am because I fail to communicate it.... and what set me off was a series of miscommunications and finally someone I care for deeply who, at that moment, didn't _see_ me, despite my attempt to explain. Being seen as I am, honest and bare, is of central importance to me. But I know it's up to me to make it happen.
> 
> (And this is what I mean when I say my life purpose is to "polish the vessel." To be a vessel through which my soul is expressed.)
> 
> When I said 'dramatic' I was describing the quality of the painting - but I did not mean that in a bad way. I agree with you - what some people call 'drama,' I call _life_.


Yeah  I have that issue too. I communicate better through art, anyway. And yeah, there is up to you to make it happen... except for when you meet people that feel like they are mysteriously attuned to your soul eaceful: and it takes less effort then.

Yeah, I get you.


----------



## Ace Face

Rinnie said:


> <3 <3 <3
> 
> Verryyyyyyyyyyyy happy with how things are going:kitteh:.


Do tell <3


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> Yeah  I have that issue too. I communicate better through art, anyway. And yeah, there is up to you to make it happen... except for when you meet people that feel like they are mysteriously attuned to your soul eaceful: and it takes less effort then.
> 
> Yeah, I get you.


Yes  I love those people.

I communicate much better in art too. When I first came to PerC I challenged myself to try to explain myself with just words on a forum... :typingneko: because it's extremely frustrating but I wanted to get better at it, especially because I want to write books. Of course, talking about my own feelings in a direct manner is not the same as telling a story through characters and symbols..but still.. I'd like to hope it has helped. I think in terms of myself, it makes me feel amazing when I can communicate that way, but it feels awful when I write so many words but they never seem to mirror my feeling the way I mean it. Art is so much better for that because it means a specific thing to me and it's okay if it means something else to someone else; in fact, I'd rather people would see themselves in my work and not just see "me." That would be real communication.


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Yes  I love those people.
> 
> I communicate much better in art too. When I first came to PerC I challenged myself to try to explain myself with just words on a forum... :typingneko: because it's extremely frustrating but I wanted to get better at it, especially because I want to write books. Of course, talking about my own feelings in a direct manner is not the same as telling a story through characters and symbols..but still.. I'd like to hope it has helped. I think in terms of myself, it makes me feel amazing when I can communicate that way, but it feels awful when I write so many words but they never seem to mirror my feeling the way I mean it. Art is so much better for that because it means a specific thing to me and it's okay if it means something else to someone else; in fact, I'd rather people would see themselves in my work and not just see "me." That would be real communication.


Yes <3 Well, once people see themselves in your work, they instantly see "you". I used to have this problem as a child because I was very introverted and just too sensitive, so I would just lock myself inside... myself and not communicate anything because (1) I was... scared and just too shy to, and because (2) I simply couldn't most of the times, I found it hard to because I felt misunderstood. And I remember my dad would often be like "why don't you write me a letter?". He would also often ask me "did you write any new story?" because he knew he could get to know how I was feeling through what I was creating. He'd also try to make me open up more and be more "out there" and I hated it because I couldn't. Now I don't seem to have this problem anymore, like... I never hold back from expressing how I feel no matter what, but I do instead have a problem with always feeling like I never succeed to explain it well enough like you said. Words still fail me.

Telling stories, my story and my feelings' stories through characters and symbols is what I love and want to do.  <3


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> Yes <3 Well, once people see themselves in your work, they instantly see "you". I used to have this problem as a child because I was very introverted and just too sensitive, so I would just lock myself inside... myself and not communicate anything because (1) I was... scared and just to shy to, and because (2) I simply couldn't most of the times, I found it hard to because I felt misunderstood. And I remember my dad would often be like "why don't you write me a letter?". He would also often ask me "did you write any new story?" because he knew he could get to know how I was feeling through what I was creating. He'd also try to make me open up more and be more "out there" and I hated it because I couldn't. Now I don't seem to have this problem anymore, like... I never hold back from expressing how I feel no matter what, but I do instead have a problem with always feeling like I never succeed to explain it well enough like you said. Words still fail me.
> 
> Telling stories, my story and my feelings' stories through characters and symbols is what I love and want to do.  <3


Hehehe I relate to this so much...

When I was a child my parents sent me to a child psychologist.. I forgot why.. but I would bring along with me a collection of stuffed kittens, all of which had names. I never liked human baby dolls or barbies, but I collected plush kittens..

So I would take them to the therapist and pull two chairs together to create a stage. Then I would have the kittens walk around the stage and enact scenes, which is how my therapist would figure out my feelings.


I also would habitually say things like, "The cat is mad at you."

It has always been easier for me to have someone or something else personify my feelings. Beginning with cats. Because cats understand me best... :ninja:


Also..



> Well, once people see themselves in your work, they instantly see "you".


So true <3 <3 <3


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Hehehe I relate to this so much...
> 
> When I was a child my parents sent me to a child psychologist.. I forgot why.. but I would bring along with me a collection of stuffed kittens, all of which had names. I never liked human baby dolls or barbies, but I collected plush kittens..
> 
> So I would take them to the therapist and pull two chairs together to create a stage. Then I would have the kittens walk around the stage and enact scenes, which is how my therapist would figure out my feelings.
> 
> 
> I also would habitually say things like, "The cat is mad at you."
> 
> It has always been easier for me to have someone or something else personify my feelings. Beginning with cats. Because cats understand me best... :ninja:
> 
> 
> Also..
> 
> 
> So true <3 <3 <3


AW <3 |The cat is mad at you." Blame Fi haha. I never liked dolls either, I liked my knifes (okay, fine... my brother's knifes) and collection of weird stuff, like notebooks, letters I would steal from home etc. I had a lot of little stuffed cats, bears etc too, though, those I liked.

Yeah, cats <3


----------



## Animal

Also @Rala
Why do you keep posting exact topics that I talked to @Sun Daeva about within the last few days? Like how I never used to talk about my feelings for instance, and then felt like whenever I do, I mess it up..


This is also part of why I have rarely "confessed feelings" .. once I've had too much time with those feelings, I feel like they can't be expressed correctly anymore, so I have to write a book or an album - which is how I've been known to confess feelings.... kind of creepy maybe.. :O


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> AW <3 |The cat is mad at you." Blame Fi haha. I never liked dolls either, I liked my knifes (okay, fine... my brother's knifes) and collection of weird stuff, like notebooks, letters I would steal from home etc. I had a lot of little stuffed cats, bears etc too, though, those I liked.


heheee. My brother has a knife collection too 
I'm more into my own knives though. Although one of them got destroyed on the worst night of my life.. which is too fucked up to post about. The other, someone accidentally took home on a video shoot and I never managed to get it back. Damn. 

He collects small flip-knives with pretty, intricate designs on them. I like the tougher ones that feel good in my hand. I'm going to invest in some kukris soon :,)



> Yeah, cats <3


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Also @Rala
> Why do you keep posting exact topics that I talked to @Sun Daeva about within the last few days? Like how I never used to talk about my feelings for instance, and then felt like whenever I do, I mess it up..
> 
> 
> This is also part of why I have rarely "confessed feelings" .. once I've had too much time with those feelings, I feel like they can't be expressed correctly anymore, so I have to write a book or an album - which is how I've been known to confess feelings.... kind of creepy maybe.. :O


Hehe I don't know, but I like to think you're part of my soul family  It would explain why I relate so much to you.

I know, I do the same. I feel like I've given my feelings so much "thought", that I have obsessed about them so much that I kind of gave my feelings other feelings and etc... enough to write a book about it. Creepy indeed, I can relate haha.


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> heheee. My brother has a knife collection too
> I'm more into my own knives though. Although one of them got destroyed on the worst night of my life.. which is too fucked up to post about. The other, someone accidentally took home on a video shoot and I never managed to get it back. Damn.
> 
> He collects small flip-knives with pretty, intricate designs on them. I like the tougher ones that feel good in my hand. I'm going to invest in some kukris soon :,)


Oooo nice. Badass 6  Daggers will always be my fav, though.

And that video reminds me of someone.


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> Hehe I don't know, but I like to think you're part of my soul family  It would explain why I relate so much to you.


Yes  Just before when you mentioned people who get you without having to say much.. I immediately thought "you are one of those (very rare) people.." but then I got shy. 

...but you are!



> I know, I do the same. I feel like I've given my feelings so much "thought", that I have obsessed about them so much that I kind of gave my feelings other feelings and etc... enough to write a book about it. Creepy indeed, I can relate haha.


Haha. An NT friend of mine told me last year "Your feelings have feelings." hahahaha. It made me laugh so hard because of how true it was... and what it must look like to him..


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Yes  Just before when you mentioned people who get you without having to say much.. I immediately thought "you are one of those (very rare) people.." but then I got shy.
> 
> ...but you are!
> 
> 
> Haha. An NT friend of mine told me last year "Your feelings have feelings." hahahaha. It made me laugh so hard because of how true it was... and what it must look like to him..


Doesn't matter  I felt you were thinking it, haha 

Hahaha.


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> Oooo nice. Badass 6  Daggers will always be my fav, though.


Yes! My two knives were daggers.... but I've been drawn to kukris because of their versatility.. they are amazing in fights, can cut down trees, can be used for hunting and cutting of the animal, etc...


> And that video reminds me of someone.


I have been sitting in boxes all my life. You know, cats aren't crazy at all - it feels REALLY good to sit in a box that is only just barely big enough to fit you. It's a good way to stretch


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> Doesn't matter  I felt you were thinking it, haha
> 
> Hahaha.


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


>


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Yes! My two knives were daggers.... but I've been drawn to kukris because of their versatility.. they are amazing in fights, can cut down trees, can be used for hunting and cutting of the animal, etc...
> 
> I have been sitting in boxes all my life. You know, cats aren't crazy at all - it feels REALLY good to sit in a box that is only just barely big enough to fit you. It's a good way to stretch


I don't have any, though. I do have a few knifes back home in Romania, but that's it. I do plan on collecting some in the future, though. I used to wander around with knifes in my bag when I was little, playing "Totally Spies", haha. I guess I was lucky I grew in the countryside XD

Hehehe, yeah.


----------



## Angina Jolie

@Rala @Animal I really loved your converstion here, but damn you 4s. I didn't even realize my abilities to express my feelings in any form is barely existant before I read how you express them through your art. Damn you, four wing threes! Whenever I recognize that there is something boiling in me, some emotion having developed, no source of expression seems to work. i stand infront kf a blank white page and nothing comes out, while the emotion is still there. Or retellling an old story that still has emotional significance - no outlet can get it out fully the way I experienced it. Words and writing is the closest and possibly the only expression that helps. But also rarely.

My bedroom looks like a murder scene, cuz when I was 17 I was boiling with emotions and fears, also of abandonment, but that fear somehow took the form of excess of energy and deaperation. One day I just took a few buckets of paint: white, yellow and dark orange: and threw them on my walls. Like a night of Pollacks embodiment. That was the only way I can get a strong wmotion out. Enneagram would direct it towards anger expressing itself.... And maybe it is. Cuz there was no message whatsoever. I just felt like creating that screaming "uhh", letting some breath out as my hand does the movement of throwing paint, and seeing how it splashes, destroying the perfection of the walls.


----------



## Kintsugi

I'm beginning to realise how difficult it is for me to just sit still and experience all my emotional states (particularly the more painful kind), without dissociating or running off somewhere else, mentally. >_>

I've recently reached a stage where I am aware of it happening but I have yet to find a way how to successfully manage it. Asking my partner to rub my back helps; I guess at times like that I need to be brought back into my body. Perhaps this is because emotions are a very physical thing....or, at least, that's how I experience them.

I get frustrated sometimes when people ask me how I feel because I just can't put that shit into words. Don't ask me how I feel if you don't want to see me start smashing things up.

Emotional dysregulation sucks. T____T


----------



## Quang

Animal said:


> Yes  I love those people.
> 
> I communicate much better in art too. When I first came to PerC I challenged myself to try to explain myself with just words on a forum... :typingneko: because it's extremely frustrating but I wanted to get better at it, especially because I want to write books. Of course, talking about my own feelings in a direct manner is not the same as telling a story through characters and symbols..but still.. I'd like to hope it has helped. I think in terms of myself, it makes me feel amazing when I can communicate that way, but it feels awful when I write so many words but they never seem to mirror my feeling the way I mean it. Art is so much better for that because it means a specific thing to me and it's okay if it means something else to someone else; in fact, I'd rather people would see themselves in my work and not just see "me." That would be real communication.


What makes you feel misunderstood when communicating with people in real life?

Is it because it is difficult to put your feelings into words or..?


----------



## series0

infinity paradox said:


> I agree that courage is absent in many people in the world, maybe more in the current upcoming generations.
> 
> I have to say I highly disagree that it is the failing of women especially. We can argue all day but I actually see the opposite, and I see more women than men overcoming pain and finding new hope meaning and love in new situations while I see more men cling to the past in an unhealthy manner, form lots of meaningless attachments or have meaningless sex all over the place, while being phobic of true commitment, including fidelity and loyalty, and connection with someone real, strong, and loyal. I'm not saying this is true of all people, but lots of the men in my generation and younger are much more cowardly than the men in the generations before and more cowardly than the women in their own generations when it comes to relationships. That's just what I see as a general observed pattern.


I agree with your assessment of men these days but I think that if you really examine that you will determine that it is my assessment of women that causes it.



Further, it is specifically the sociocultural upheaval that humanity is going through due to the roles of traditional men and women being broken down that is the real source. Frankly, that hits men's traditional roles more solidly and corrosively than it does women's. That is an issue which places no blame on its own. Or you could say that it places blame equally on all participants. You and I may have to agree that we are both slightly biased for our own teams. We smile at each other across the game grid and cheer. But at the end of the day I'd rather get to the eating, drinking, and ... other fun. 

Men and women both are going to have to learn to rebuild the credit that men used to receive back into the system. This has two sides, the doing it side mostly for men and the realizing it and giving credit for it from both sides.


----------



## Kintsugi

Just give me my feelings back.

Fucking parasite.


----------



## 6007

Met a stranger over the weekend who very much reminded me of infp love interest.
He was less fit, as he is not a powerlifter (most of the men in my life are very athletic in some capacity), and he was in the sciences rather than government, but there was something really similar.
What is odd is...
Each time I'd look at him early in the evening, the word
*milquetoast*
would flash across my mind.

However milquetoastian he may or may not be, however, I liked him very much. He mentioned me to our mutual friend today, and I do think it's possible he found me attractive, but I was very upfront about my status and also, not flirtatious. Not on purpose anyway. (I was told recently my eyes read as very flirty.) Had I met him before I met Byron I might be interested, and it would be a fucking disaster. Thank god for Byron.

I don't mesh well with certain types of men, and god help me, I am always attracted to them anyway. I love mousey guys. :/


----------



## Vanitas

I have no intention to make excuses, nor apologies.

_Sorry._


----------



## cinnabun

Being woken up to having breakfast in bed = cute af.

CUTE AY EFF.

You know what else is cute? Having someone kiss your forehead.

Q AYYYYY EFFFF GURLLLL.

I just died.


----------



## 6007

have gained some happiness pounds. Therefore, I shall be pushing away from the caloric beverages and sweets.
doggone it, being happy and in a couple makes us both eat more than when we're apart.
Apart, we both eat like alley dogs.
Scrap here, scrap there.
Together? Fancy foods and nice beers, stupid comfort food like pie. 

NOH


----------



## 6007

That was a damn fine day to put the past to rest. 
Severed last tie with my ex, shortly after finding an old phone from 2013 with all our pictures. 
He looked tired and miserable in them. Or, if not miserable, half alive. 
Poor thing. 
it is for the best we parted. He looks happier now, and god knows he deserves it. 
He mayn't have been the best husband, but he was a good man when we dated. Too helpful by far but, well, just lovely. 
I feel sorry I couldn't have been a better wife but, well, he helped create the dynamic as much as I did. 
He outgrew his last ex too and was relieved when it ended. 
I hope for him that his relationships going forward, whether with this anorexic or someone else, will be healthy and happy. 
I hope mine will be too. 
Thank god I started attracting age appropriate partners. 
Byron is also extremely gorgeous in the face so hell yes for me.


----------



## Shadow Tag

lol don't know if this is even sx, oops

Real talk, I don't think I've ever made it through the lantern scene from Tangled without tearing up. I See the Light is actually the best Disney song ever.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

Eff this class I'm dropping out again so I can be a phone sex operator.


----------



## Animal

Vanitas said:


> I have no intention to make excuses, nor apologies.
> 
> _Sorry._


----------



## Vanitas

@Animal Oh, nothing so dire/anguished. I just ... slightly _misbehaved_ and having absolutely no regrets about it.

Good song though, I'm not familiar with the artist/singer.


----------



## 6007

People are so stupid. 
If you know someone is toxic and bad for you, why go back for seconds. 
I have done that. My god sometimes I'm stupid. 
But it is like aunt boo said,
a toxin is a poison. And it will spread through you until you are SUBDUED. 
fucking truth. 

i haven't yet discovered an exact litmus test (does that phrase apply here? I will research and learn definitively) whereby one knows proof positive a connection is a toxin. I believe I have a rough idea. 

How to tell if your connection is toxic, a post by Ripley J Black

1 you see a text message, email, or phone call from your toxin, and you have an immediate negative visceral reaction, such as: chattering teeth, feeling a current of negative electricity shooting though you, dread, sinking stomach, heart feels sick or sharp or heavy, panicked breathing, or any overwhelming and distinctly negative physical reaction specifically triggered by that person. 


2 your toxin has never honored a single boundary of yours, and invades your space continuously. 

3 your toxin has the entire relationship on their terms. If they want your time, money, attention, resources, regardless of how it impacts you, they are toxic. 

4 your toxin likes you WEAK. Your toxin will keep you off balance at best, or beat down at worst. Example: push pull games, long into a relationship; verbal abuse and put downs; alienating you from friends. 

5 believes all is fair in love. This is more emotional boundaries; will say triggering things when they are upset and blame you. 

Now im famished and bored


----------



## Donovan

i think it's interesting that i only see things about myself from the periphery of my own actions. i don't think i've ever viewed myself as incapable or weakened, or behind in any way--in fact, my sense of self has always been, "okay, so i need to do A, B, and then C. yeah yeah yeah, it'll be difficult but that's not something to think about, i'm just gonna push and push and it'll be done. period"... 

even in times when i have, looking back on it now, been in a state of doubt. but, it wouldn't even be doubt in the normal sense, like you doubt yourself, because you/(i) am too far removed from even viewing myself like that in a conscious way as to identify with the part of my mind that sees itself as 'lacking' in some way. it's like 'lacking' _anything_ just isn't a good excuse, and it's just the birthing seed of consciously taking the route towards failing--why would you ever do that to yourself??? 
i find that i devalue my own self-concern if if comes down to making me less able to meet my own objective. at once self-aware and at once unaware, like it's impossible to even spread all your eggs among your baskets, so sacrifices are made on a level you can't even see. 


i was working last night and it occurred to me that a way in which i am very brittle has to do with intimate matters. friends, doing well, etc. etc. is not what i consider an "intimate matter". exposing myself and making my interests known in a way that isn't on the reciprocating side of things--as opposed to being on the side that is initiating, and puts me out there in a way that has no safety net, is the quickest way for me to withdraw from a situation. 
i can always make people like me. i don't say this like it's some "great thing", instead i view it like being able to type quickly, or run very fast, or being good at math: it's just a skill that you intuitively pick up on or you don't. and i usually have no problem doing this at work, as my money depends on it, but i noticed that if a table is flirting with me i don't really know how to handle it (lol). 

it's the quickest way for me to shoot myself in the foot, because if i feel uncomfortable i just become cold and professional and i can feel it in the air--it's palpable--i might as well have slapped everyone in the face, and it's all so unintentional. even if i am attracted to that other person, i can't help it, i just get super cold, immediately. 
i think it's because it just seems formal and like a play or sorts, or some way for everyone involved to enter into some kind of image-elevating-game, based on the scenario we are currently in (specifically while at work, as my role and the guest's role hinge on one another: cue-following). it doesn't genuine i guess, maybe that's what i'm picking up on...? 


but then there are people who break this little format apart, and things are more organic. they aren't immediately give you "eyes", and trying to hold your stare longer than necessary, they just kind of go their own quiet route about things, and what seems like their own cold version at first is really something that opens into shy sweetness as time goes on. 
these are the people that i can have fun with, if only for an hour or two, and i don't feel at odds since the reason they're giving me a 50% tip is based off how i am acting now, and how i am acting is genuine, because it was spurred from what i picked up on within them, and what i saw i liked very much. 

while writing this it's kind of clear that i haven't really figured anything out--as i initially thought upon sitting down to write this, lol--but have instead stumbled upon something that at first travels in many directions at once (or so it seems), but is definitely something to look into more.


----------



## Laguna

I don't know if you're singing to me. Or to someone else.
I'll assume it's not to me when it's not clear.
I can't play games. I don't have the inner strength for it any longer, unfortunately. Wish I did.


----------



## Vermillion

_"We slid into oblivion, where the light is pale
That which was you and I."_


----------



## Animal

I generally want what's best for people and don't hang onto animosity for long, but still, no matter how much time passes, it gives me a thrill to see karma being served up the ass. People often get what they deserve. Sometimes it even seems like they set it up that way unconsciously.

I have done it. I had a complicated, torturous situation with a man about a decade ago, and my other exes told me, "Karma.." and I knew they were right. It's not that I was so terrible to them, or he was so terrible to me, but he kind of took the place in the relationship that I had been in, in previous relationships, so now I knew how it felt. It gave me the kick in the ass that I needed and in the aftermath I grew tremendously and finally reclaimed the soul in myself that was destroyed in trauma. I resurrected myself from the undead because the animal I had become was mirrored right back at me.

So I don't mean this to be cruel, per se. Although I won't deny that I enjoy watching some people suffer. But really, I believe if they have the will to grow, it's usually good for them to get what they deserve. Of course, some people prefer being stagnant and blaming everyone else. I don't waste an ounce of hope on those people - it is what it is. Either way though, karma is beautiful.


----------



## ENIGMA2019

Animal said:


> Either way though, karma is beautiful.


 I agree a 110%!


----------



## Gorgon

Me on and off meds is like Jekyll and Hyde, and it's disconcerting the stark contrast. There's a dark allure to Hyde. When I'm in Hyde mode, I have greater access to my darker emotions and impulses. It leads to obsession where everything else becomes a mere blur. There's something raw, visceral, untamed, and even surreal about the whole experience. It's intense, unbridled chaos and criminal passions run amok. I find it easier to detach myself from others, thereby making it easier for me to reject mine and other people's humanity. Paradoxically, my shadow is just as human as the light, and painfully so. In other cultures, there were deities/entities to pray to to satisfy and exorcise our darker impulses. Ritual and sacrifice were conduits for extreme psychic energies. Now, the only appropriate outlets for our impulses are via media or exercise. But are they any more effective than ritual? At least rituals directly address these impulses. 

Regardless, my rate of decay accelerated during those times. Decay, dereliction, and death were common themes. To be psychologically at the edge of death is something everyone should experience once, but only once. It tears at the fabric of your being which leads to viewing things differently. It's an emergency alarm of a different sort. It's a call back to life, but a call to return transformed and renewed.

When Jekyll reemerges from shadows, she's brought back to the land of the living. However, there's something uncanny about it. Is it the fact that she can easily return to the realm of the dead? The boundary between the living and the dead is awfully thin. I wonder what happens when they converge. Maybe it's the fact that there is a bifurcation that unsettles her? Or that she has lost a part of herself when she returned to the living? Inspite of these anxieties, the land of the living poses more possibilities and the opportunity for growth. I actually have something to look forward to.

There's something valuable in being on the edges of humanity where one is unfettered my laws, morals, and attachments. Where one becomes acquainted with her own montrosity which is just as human as anything resembling goodness and order. Where she learns that her montrosity hides deep wounds. Where she comes to understand that her deep wounds are not something to be ashamed of. You cannot have the light without the dark, life without death, and growth without decay. Sometimes the darkness leads one to the light, and the light illuminates the darkness so that it no longer becomes the 'dark continent' of the psyche - mysterious, murky, and inhospitable.


----------



## fawning

He's beautiful, kind, intelligent, my type, quiet, gentle, very sexy, peaceful, a good communicator, he isn't tangled up in my friends network, he lets me take the lead, our attraction is mutual, and the dates are so easy

the dates are _easy_

that's all I can work out as to why I feel absolutely nothing when I'm out with him, why I don't think of him when he's gone, why all I think about is my incredibly difficult, confusing ex from almost a year ago. This has been served up to me on a plate, just what I asked for, and I still feel nothing. I just long for the intensity of my ex even with all the fucking passive aggressive abuse. I feel like such an awful fucking person. Like no appetite when there is food right in front of me and I am starving to death?

What makes a person spark, I don't understand.



Because You're Frightened said:


> _You want to hurt
> You want to crave
> You want to praise and curse and blame
> You want to believe just what you like
> Then you want to hurt and crave again._


----------



## Vermillion

fawning said:


> He's beautiful, kind, intelligent, my type, quiet, gentle, very sexy, peaceful, a good communicator, he isn't tangled up in my friends network, he lets me take the lead, our attraction is mutual, and the dates are so easy
> 
> the dates are _easy_
> 
> that's all I can work out as to why I feel absolutely nothing when I'm out with him, why I don't think of him when he's gone, why all I think about is my incredibly difficult, confusing ex from almost a year ago. This has been served up to me on a plate, just what I asked for, and I still feel nothing. I just long for the intensity of my ex even with all the fucking passive aggressive abuse. I feel like such an awful fucking person. Like no appetite when there is food right in front of me and I am starving to death?
> 
> What makes a person spark, I don't understand.


I find a bit of myself in what you expressed. I can never seem to reconcile the desires for deep, volatile intensity and sweet, dependable comfort. It's the difference between tumultuous waves crashing on a shore and a mountain lake in the dawn. Both are exquisite in their own way. 

What helps me the most with these things is just time, patience, and dwelling on the feelings silently. I typically feel compelled to take decisions about these things right away, but decisions like that lead nowhere. Plus, it also has helped me to ask myself to separate longing and nostalgia from actual desire. Sometimes we crave things simply because we're used to them, if that makes sense. It doesn't necessarily mean they have a place in our new lives.

Every person we fall for is beautiful because they make us feel something unique that no one else ever can. What we feel for one person is never an echo of what we felt for someone else. I hope it helps to remember that on your journey... I'm trying to find myself with the same advice, as well. Good luck


----------



## Rala

I am a horrible person.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

I don't realize how crazy my ideas are until I open up my mouth. But I need to own it. Otherwise, I'll just be running around in circles.


----------



## 6007

I thought this before, and I'm sure I've shared it here before too... That I always hated nostalgia and the past and looking back. 
But when I look back at 2015 I don't see anything I regret or hate. 
I had a fair share of heart break and disappointment and I probably caused some too. 
But I see so many good moments, and I've never ever felt that before. 
So when I was with Jareth the ENTJ, yes he wore me ragged and talked me into things I didn't want to do. But then I dumped him. And I got to try things I might not have. 

I was confused over Squeeze and El Diablo and exerted much energy analyzing or reacting to either at any given time, but it ended up helping me as well. I wouldn't trade any of the experiences we shared, no matter how much they hurt later. 

Diablo still occasionally pops up to confuse me and I wonder sometimes if I handled that connection well. 
But he didn't either and maybe that happens with some people.


----------



## Ace Face

Grieving the loss of a loved one is something nobody should put a time frame on. I want to spit in the faces of anybody who would shame someone for how long he processes his grief. Grief is different for everyone, and everyone is allowed to experience it the way they choose for as long as they choose. We all lose loved ones, and anybody who tries to shame people for how they feel or for where they're at in the grieving process seriously needs to be slapped in the face, if not beat to the fucking cold ass ground. I mean, sure, maybe you can try to help them cope and take another step forward. That's support, and grieving souls sometimes need a gentle, loving push. But to just demean a grieving soul by telling them to get over it... I'll knock your damn teeth down your throat, you soulless mother fucking piece of shit.


----------



## 6007

That goober I met who reminded me of infp has been blowing up my friend's phone asking about me. 
Dude knows I have a boyfriend. 
He asked for my phone number. 

Just... No. It's about respect. 
If you don't respect my relationship you can't respect me.


----------



## Philathea

ripley said:


> That goober I met who reminded me of infp has been blowing up my friend's phone asking about me.
> Dude knows I have a boyfriend.
> He asked for my phone number.
> 
> Just... No. It's about respect.
> If you don't respect my relationship you can't respect me.


While I agree with this in theory.. I know that in practice when I find someone I really like, it doesn't matter much to me if they're in a relationship. Of course I keep it platonic and I don't try to get them to cheat or anything, but it does nothing to lessen my interest in the person.


----------



## 6007

Philathea said:


> While I agree with this in theory.. I know that in practice when I find someone I really like, it doesn't matter much to me if they're in a relationship. Of course I keep it platonic and I don't try to get them to cheat or anything, but it does nothing to lessen my interest in the person.


I think he wants to date me though. The attraction isn't innocent or only friendly. 
That adds up to a lot of potential problems I would like to avoid. 
I do appreciate the other POV but for me this makes sense, I think.


----------



## Eclipsed

I am attempting to see things for what they are instead of letting my own biases and insecurities seep in and cloud my judgement. I don't want to be ruled by fear. The truth is important to me, but there comes a point where uncertainty overpowers all else and... is it still worth it then to search for truth? No, truth is the wrong word. I know what is true, but I want to know it exactly. I seek to be _precise_, though I am beginning to think that this is a fool's errand. Is there any real benefit to sacrificing my sanity and everything I love just to avoid being subjective? Objectivity does not come without a cost, of course, but I'm beginning to feel as though I'm being ripped off.

I cannot bear to let myself be willfully ignorant. I run from the truth in the pursuit of it because it is too much for me to handle- but it is impossible for me to simply admit this and move on. I must numb, forget, reject, deny the things I've learned in order to continue functioning properly... and ironically this makes me half the person I should be. I do enough to survive but I've essentially lost what makes me feel alive because _individuality is not objective_. My mind is blank though my heart feels heavy- if I ever stop to think about why, everything comes rushing back and I must flee into mindless refuge once again. It's a vicious cycle. If there were a satisfying way to conclude this investigation, I'd sell my soul to the devil for it, but nothing of the sort exists. I seek answers to questions that cannot be answered with an unbiased mind and in spite of knowing this, search for a definitive answer anyway.

I'm beginning to think that it would be best to just snip this part of me away. It's more trouble than it's proven to be worth. Sacrifices must be made if I'm to rejoin the living once more, or at least that's what I'm guessing. Nothing is ever certain. I identify with chaos but even so I cannot live with so much inside me because I feel torn in so many different directions that I can't even consider myself an individual anymore. I am no one and everyone. Darkness and light. Ice and fire. There is no in between.

If I know that no one can live like this, then why do I keep trying? That's the hardest question to answer. Perhaps it's simply become habit. I insist on living in the past in an attempt to reach the future and I'm not sure if there's any sense in that, but I can't ignore what's happened to me. I need to clear my mind and stop running. I'm trying to try, but I still manage to fall painfully short of such simple expectations on a daily basis. Perhaps I am a lost cause. I'm still undecided.


----------



## Vanitas

As I recognize what someone wants (of me), somehow ... there's a sadness in it. I will comply, of course. I am not against it, and maybe pleasing them is what I've been created to _be_, anyway.

It's more a 3 venting, maybe, but a 3 Sx.


----------



## Vermillion

I know. I've never not been prepared. I'm already familiar with this bottomless feeling. It already hurts so much. It can't really hurt more. 

Even if it does who cares.

...

I hate this. I'm fucking pathetic for even being in pain. I know.

please don't leave me alone.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

*Please don't be straight. Please don't be straight. Please don't be straight. Please don't be straight. Please don't be straight. Please don't be straight. Please don't be straight. Please don't be straight."

"Yeah, well me and my boyfriend...."

NOOOOOOOOO :shocked:


----------



## Rala

Night Huntress said:


> Even if it does who I'm fucking *pathetic* for even being in pain.


Oh, I think you have a typo there, you probably meant *brave*. You're welcome


----------



## Vanitas

What's left of you is (only) smoke, now.

_Dissipating? Lingering?_


----------



## 6007

I was thinking hard about Diablo last night. 
About three hours later he messaged me, even though we hardly talk now. 


Spooky.


----------



## Vermillion

Rala said:


> Oh, I think you have a typo there, you probably meant *brave*. You're welcome


Thank you, it's hard for me to think of this as anything brave, but what you said did make me smile :blushed:


----------



## 6007

One thing I like about not dating Jareth the ENTJ is...
he always seemed stupid to me. 
I know he isn't stupid, he's adept at certain things, but in matters of... Deep thought... He was inadequate. 
If I wanted to learn how to get free airline miles he was a good resource tho. 

He was really into his bible and warped his own brain with persistent bible study for years. 
Which is great but it was stilted. I would often ask him, if he loves God and religion so much, why doesn't he study other religions so he can better and more deeply understand his own and why it is valid. 

But ultimately, his intellectual rigidity and shallowness bored me senseless. 
His dominant sexual tendencies were repellent. His idea of sexy was a rapey throat fuck and basically, I'm sure that has its place but he was only titillated by extremes. 
And frankly, he preferred ass to pussy. 
And he wanted me to give up my career. He didn't say that but he would pester me into taking time off my work and not putting my business first, during a divorce. My future was in jeopardy, and he was trying to marry me and make me have his children. 

He did NOT have my best interests at heart, only his desire to not be the creepy guy at church with no wife. He just wants someone to look right and give him two kids and have the Story. The Picture. 

Repulsive human.


----------



## Donovan

oh ma god, thank you ^


----------



## Donovan

oh ma god, thank you ^
(to ripley's post--i thought my internet was cutting out because nothing was happening, and then i thought of more, so i'll go on...)


i've actually thought before if other people had it right and there was just something wrong with me. like, am just so fucked up that i cannot picture something so simple as--how i intuit it--elementary level 'love'. something where people just go melting at the knees for each other at first glance, and then completely change their life in order to accommodate someone else...? 
i can understand falling in love--i mean, i can understand it on a experiential level, beyond that, who knows (i could go into detail, i just think no one would actually care/gain anything from it). 
how do people do this? i've actually noticed it a lot more from extremes of the financial spectrum. those in the middle--even though making up the middle class and being therefore, average--actually seem to have much more variance in their particular exposure and in the nuances, as far as union is concerned (none of this verified, just what i've picked up on in life). 

hell forget the above. it's my usual unthought out, shoot from the hip type of post (which i'm sure can be interpreted a 1,000 different ways--i find most of my thought towards countering the mis-perception, and in the while create the opposite, and still i'm typing in excess, explaining the explaining that's already come or will come, etc...)



the reason i've even begun typing this out:

i've wondered why, i, the person who was always more of a romantic-type--for lack of a better word, as that sounds just this side of lame... maybe a person who always had, or was born with, the ability to recognize the feeling aspect within myself(?; not just to "feel", but to be cognizant of the experience and in tune with my current state[?])--but, as i've just said, i kind of wall myself off from that very same side. which is odd, as it's at once a driving aspect _of_ myself. 
but i'm very torn apart from that, very same 'aspect'. for a while i would just close up involuntarily if i had an interest in someone. couldn't really help it, just sort of had what would be my normal reaction sapped from me (or at least it felt that way). the closer we would get, the more i would retreat... i think it's because i don't like myself enough to actually want to even reciprocate my natural response to their own(?). and i don't mean that as "oh no, my life is terrible, wahh", but just as something that while quite drunk and a tad bit high after work [a long night, but great, night], i randomly stumbled upon this and it feels true. 

i think it's the reason why i want something very unattached in the relation-ship spectrum, but just really good friends who have fun and go out drinking together/"whatever". close in the sense of having each other's backs, because we _actually_ like, and value the other as a _person_. we could live, work, fight, fuck and die together--or at least that's the sentiment. idealistic and without a doubt problematic, but still... something close has to be available. 
i think a lot happens based upon our foundational view of reality--seemingly off topic, but bear with me--not in the sense that we can completely alter things outside of our affectual scope, but in the sense that we can come more into contact with (of course) our wants in life by actually being open to those particular opportunities. 
obvious facts of life aside (), i think something i can do to actually like myself--or better yet, reunite with myself--is to actually focus on myself. it's actually kind of weird to realize you've just been doing... absolutely nothing, not in the terms of what one is capable of, for the past decade of one's life... 

so, doing the thing i would rather not do is of course the one thing i need to start doing... again, odd, and so incredibly tedious... but the thing is, you end up doing it regardless of what you choose, the only thing is, is that you can begin to do it well as opposed to horribly if you actually... _do_ it. and it's (again) odd to see something so blatant and obvious in such a different format.


----------



## Animal

I am marrying my soulmate tomorrow!


* *





It was the pure Language of the World. It required no explanation, just as the universe needs none as it travels through endless time. What the boy felt at that moment was that he was in the presence of the only woman in his life, and that, with no need for words, she recognized the same thing. He was more certain of it than of anything in the world. He had been told by his parents and grandparents that he must fall in love and really know a person before becoming committed. But maybe people who felt that way had never learned the universal language. Because, when you know that language, it’s easy to understand that someone in the world awaits you, whether it’s in the middle of the desert or in some great city. And when two such people encounter each other, and their eyes meet, the past and future become unimportant. There is only that moment, and the incredible certainty that everything under the sun has been written by one hand only. It is the hand that evokes love, and creates a twin soul for every person in the world. Without such love, one’s dreams would have no meaning.

~ The Alchemist, by Paulo Coehlo ~






:love_heart:
:love_heart::love_heart:
:love_heart::love_heart::love_heart:
:love_heart::love_heart::love_heart::love_heart:
:love_heart::love_heart::love_heart::love_heart::love_heart:
​


----------



## Daeva

Animal said:


> I am marrying my soulmate tomorrow!
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was the pure Language of the World. It required no explanation, just as the universe needs none as it travels through endless time. What the boy felt at that moment was that he was in the presence of the only woman in his life, and that, with no need for words, she recognized the same thing. He was more certain of it than of anything in the world. He had been told by his parents and grandparents that he must fall in love and really know a person before becoming committed. But maybe people who felt that way had never learned the universal language. Because, when you know that language, it’s easy to understand that someone in the world awaits you, whether it’s in the middle of the desert or in some great city. And when two such people encounter each other, and their eyes meet, the past and future become unimportant. There is only that moment, and the incredible certainty that everything under the sun has been written by one hand only. It is the hand that evokes love, and creates a twin soul for every person in the world. Without such love, one’s dreams would have no meaning.
> 
> ~ The Alchemist, by Paulo Coehlo ~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :love_heart:
> :love_heart::love_heart:
> :love_heart::love_heart::love_heart:
> :love_heart::love_heart::love_heart::love_heart:
> :love_heart::love_heart::love_heart::love_heart::love_heart:
> ​


----------



## Vanitas

I'm still unsure how much/how to communicate in a relationship. How much to leave out, what to adjust. What to do with this feeling of uncertainty.

It is very easy to rush this but all of my instincts are telling me not to. It wouldn't be fair. To everyone.


----------



## mimesis

@Animal & @Sun Daeva


* *














I wish you a lifetime of love, joy and wedded bliss







Rock on, forevermore!


----------



## sinaasappel

:ninja:


Sent from Mini-Mangos iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## 6007

Fighting with Byron again. 
I know fighting is natural but I still don't like the way he talks to me when we fight. 
I keep wishing I could simply talk to someone smarter than me about it...
but I don't know anyone smarter than me. 

I really need advice. I don't know what to do.


----------



## Superfluous

Don't get me flowers, just fruit salad please.


----------



## Vanitas

Happiness is a vine.


----------



## 6007

So what I'm realizing with Byron is, he doesn't have empathy. 
At least... Not towards me. 
So now I'm trying to remember any time he has shown compassion towards anyone, feeling with them. And...
i don't think he has empathy.


----------



## Ace Face

Some of the things that people put their energy into really is just baffling to me. I can't help but think that 90% of the shit people bitch about is just child's play. First world problems... so cringe-worthy. Like take a look around, dude... life is NOT that bad. You DO have ENDLESS options for food, drink, shelter, etc. I really don't give a shit that you're stressed out about figuring out which color sheet to buy for your mattress, a mattress that so many fucking people in this world would kill to have and don't have. I'm sorry, I just don't feel sorry for you nor do I empathize. It's a stupid thing to bitch about. Is nobody grateful? I mean, seriously O_O


----------



## Vermillion

These feelings are going to destroy me heeeeeeeeeeellllpppppppppp I'm not supposed to have them :crying:

I have 0 prudence. ZERO. NONE. NIL. Watch this entire venture go up in flames very soon.


----------



## drmiller100

I'm attracted to crazy. A younger lady was hitting on me the other day. I looked her up on the state repository.

How crazy do you have to be to get 15 days in jail (45 days, 30 days withheld) for making harassing phone calls????

I bet she'd be fun............ Until it wasn't. 

Pass.


But I looked at it...........


----------



## Vanitas

Do not ask questions you yourself are not willing to answer.


----------



## Animal

People keep asking us if we feel different now that we're married. But I don't. I feel like we were married before we even met.


----------



## Kore

You're a fucking coward!


----------



## 6007

Pretty sure Byron is an enneagram 6 SX. 
Is enneagram 6 really common or am I a magnet for them?


----------



## Sedem

Last night I had a long dream about being on a mario-esque island with my sister (and a friend?). We planted pink, fluffy poofs of something, and got chased by a crocodile until I finally stabbed it so many times it gave up and died. But seriously, I ran around for ages knifing this thing as it (mostly) chased my sister. The last straw was at the end when a smaller crocodile implied that I should knife it diagonally down into its neck... the theory being that it couldn't flail about anymore, or chomp down on anything, or breathe. What the heck. What a distressing dream. Why did I have to be the one to kill it? 

You'd think, as an sx, I might enjoy intense dreams, but actually I just hate dreams... with an intensity. >.> 
The stupid thing is that now I'm left wondering if that particular knife angle/location is what would work with a real crocodile...
Pretty sure that dumb dream is what ruined my mood for the day. ugh. stupid.


I blame the facebook video with the grandpa trying to get his golf club back from a croc and Deadpool.


----------



## Animal

ripley said:


> Pretty sure Byron is an enneagram 6 SX.
> Is enneagram 6 really common or am I a magnet for them?


Oh.. Sx 6.. I wish you luck.  They are magnetic and alluring as the fires in the depths of hell.


----------



## Baby Spidey

I've been self medicating #woops


----------



## 6007

Animal said:


> Oh.. Sx 6.. I wish you luck.  They are magnetic and alluring as the fires in the depths of hell.


The last fight we had, I was like 

this dude lacks empathy. 


When I explained that to him, that his actions seem narcissistic and unkind, and that if it's the case he will lose me, he returned and hugged me. He said he didn't know what to say, so he would hold me instead. 

I feel like he's slowly starting to make sense to me. 


Gods, are we different.


----------



## drmiller100

Animal said:


> P now that we're married. But I don't.


I did not know! 


*CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## sinaasappel

Who was lonely on Valentine's Day:laughing:


Sent from Mini-Mangos iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## 6007

GIA Diamonds said:


> Who was lonely on Valentine's Day:laughing:
> 
> 
> Sent from Mini-Mangos iPod touch using Tapatalk


i was in a fight with Byron and spent it crying in public and hanging out with my single lady friends.


----------



## sinaasappel

ripley said:


> i was in a fight with Byron and spent it crying in public and hanging out with my single lady friends.


Oh god that's awful....:sad: I'm sorry to hear that :sad:


----------



## Ace Face

I can will anything I want into being. My thoughts, my will, my beliefs... things I've created that have manifested in the world right before my eyes. My thoughts, my will, my beliefs... they built this. What great comfort I have in this knowledge.


----------



## cinnabun

Awkward moment when the sleazy guy from work sleeps with someone else you work with, then brags about it to all the guys. Then you find out, tell the poor girl because she has the right to know, then said sleazy guy gets pissed off with you, throws you daggers all day in work, then goes around claiming "She's just jealous she never got to tap this."

...What he forgets to mention is that a few months ago, when I recently became single, he was mailing me constantly, trying to get me to go up to his house for "a good time." 

Yeah, real jealous. So mad with myself I never took up your offer all those weeks ago because you're_ such _a gentleman :'(

Fucking loser.


----------



## Vermillion

Is it because I am not enough? Or because I'm too much?


----------



## drmiller100

Night Huntress said:


> Is it because I am not enough? Or because I'm too much?


maybe you are just perfectly you.


----------



## Animal

Night Huntress said:


> Is it because I am not enough? Or because I'm too much?


Exactly. I wondered the same thing all my life until I met my husband.


----------



## Vermillion

drmiller100 said:


> maybe you are just perfectly you.


Maybe....
I do wish people liked who I am, though.



Animal said:


> Exactly. I wondered the same thing all my life until I met my husband.


You guys are so happy together. It really warms my heart to see that! Congrats on the wedding <3

I hope, one day, that feeling of constant melancholy goes away for me too.


----------



## 6007

Night Huntress said:


> Is it because I am not enough? Or because I'm too much?


Maybe the other person just isn't enough.


----------



## 6007

I am super in love with Byron. &#55356;&#57145;
The downs stink but the ups are amazing. 
I never thought I could feel this way about anyone.


----------



## 6007

&#55357;&#56622;


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

For someone who claims they don't care about others' opinions, I have a terrible need for their approval and validation.


----------



## Animal

Night Huntress said:


> Maybe....
> I do wish people liked who I am, though.


At least this statement implies that you are... yourself. Many people become something they're not in order to be accepted and then they end up stuck with someone who expects them to be the person they pretended to be and can't see who they are. That has to be worse than being alone....




> You guys are so happy together. It really warms my heart to see that! Congrats on the wedding <3


Thank you  



> I hope, one day, that feeling of constant melancholy goes away for me too.


Less than a year ago I was completely hopeless. I truly did not believe I could come back from that. He "rescued" me in our early emails and I don't say that lightly. I have never allowed anyone to do that, and used to slap men who implied I needed to be rescued. But this was natural. He wasn't rescuing me because of some God complex, white knight complex, or need to change who I am. He rescued me simply by being who he is and seeing who I am. He saw my heart when I could no longer believe in it anymore; yet it was still there, because it just.. is.


And if I've come this far in one year (in fact, we started speaking 4 months after the post I linked below) - I have no doubt it could happen to anyone. You seem like a genuine person with a strong mind and solid sense of who you are. It seems impossible that all hope is lost. But I know that probably sounds like empty words.... all I can really say for certain is that I lost hope and it was restored very easily when I met the right person, despite that I've always been one to rescue myself and not depend on others (or be vulnerable in any way, really).


http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...rants-vents-rages-purges-84.html#post15059370


----------



## Animal

P.S. @_Night Huntress_ 

Wow.. I just clicked on that old post - my "rock bottom hopeless" post - and it was posted exactly a year ago - Feb 17. :hypnotysed:


----------



## Vermillion

Animal said:


> At least this statement implies that you are... yourself. Many people become something they're not in order to be accepted and then they end up stuck with someone who expects them to be the person they pretended to be and can't see who they are. That has to be worse than being alone...
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Less than a year ago I was completely hopeless. I truly did not believe I could come back from that. He "rescued" me in our early emails and I don't say that lightly. I have never allowed anyone to do that, and used to slap men who implied I needed to be rescued. But this was natural. He wasn't rescuing me because of some God complex, white knight complex, or need to change who I am. He rescued me simply by being who he is and seeing who I am.  He saw my heart when I could no longer believe in it anymore; yet it was still there, because it just.. is.
> 
> And if I've come this far in one year (in fact, we started speaking 4 months after the post I linked below) - I have no doubt it could happen to anyone. You seem like a genuine person with a strong mind and solid sense of who you are. It seems impossible that all hope is lost. But I know that probably sounds like empty words.... all I can really say for certain is that I lost hope and it was restored very easily when I met the right person, despite that I've always been one to rescue myself and not depend on others (or be vulnerable in any way, really).


Yeah. I always try to be as true to myself as is possible, and because of that, even though sometimes I hear advice telling me "forget about it" "just let you feelings naturally die out" "it's not such a big deal" and stuff like that, I _need_ to be completely honest with myself and all parties involved. It's a double-edged sword. It means I never really regret or hide my feelings about anything, but it also isn't very prudent and sometimes may scare people away.

When I love anything or anyone I'm very passionate. Hell, even if it isn't "love" and is just a budding connection, I'm committed to seeing it grow and I guess it can seem a bit too intense for people who like to take it slow and easy. So it hurts when people withdraw and it makes me question myself. I wonder if maybe I'm just being stupid by being that passionately involved in everything/everyone I care about. Or if I'm just a weirdo who isn't attractive or interesting enough to be liked by anyone. 

It's not just with potential partners, but friends. I don't know if I scare people away or if I'm not special enough to be liked. (It could also simply be that I don't put myself out there enough, cause I'm a serious introvert.) It just makes me upset because I really enjoy loving people and being loved; it adds so much color to life. I have my life fairly in order all by myself, but it gets really despairingly colorless without enough people to share things with. So it often just feels like I'm walking naked in the dark and cold and I occasionally get to see light and warmth from doors left ajar, but as soon as I get some hope the door shuts in my face and I have to keep walking. 

Still, I enjoy continuing to hope, because it brings richness and meaning to life. So despite having been let down like a million times I can't say I've fully lost hope. Even on the coldest nights, it's a tiny flame. Diminished as hell and often flickering out, but never really completely dying.

I want for that hope to mean something one day. I want to be able to look at my life and actually be content with the love I'm able to give and receive.

Thank you very much for your encouragement :'D



Animal said:


> P.S. @_Night Huntress_
> 
> Wow.. I just clicked on that old post - my "rock bottom hopeless" post - and it was posted exactly a year ago - Feb 17. :hypnotysed:


Lol funny how these things work, right? It's a siiiiign


----------



## drmiller100

Night Huntress said:


> Still, I enjoy continuing to hope, because it brings richness and meaning to life.



there is a quote along the lines of "It is far easier to see the splinter in someone else's eye than the plank in your own." 

The opinion I was going to give you I should apply to myself. 

Thank you.


----------



## FelixFahrenheit

Am I just using my two best friends to feel close to someone, or is that what friendship is... sometimes I over-dramatize what I tell them just to intensify our bond over the situation 
I try to relate to people just for that feeling of relating to them strongly 
Does the fact that it makes me happy and exhilarated mean that I don't really care about anyone really? That my love of that close bonding feeling was my goal or hope from the beginning... If I want it that much, does that make it all just fake and constructed? Sometimes I like to go clubbing with them because I know things happen that we can talk and bond over later. Intense and deep confiding in each other conversation... I love it, but is it even meaningful?


----------



## FelixFahrenheit

Intense connections are so important to me that my former enemy and I know each other more than some of my friends know me


----------



## 6007

Byron is being a cunt nugget again. 
Today he worked out and helped me a bit with my work. He started getting hungry and I suggested a local place. 
He seemed fine with it, so we got ready to go. On the way there he said the food there wouldn't be filling enough, so I asked him 
me: would you like to go there and split something just to take the hunger edge off and then decide a place to go?
him: I guess. If you want to go there, just go there. 
Me: do you want to go to (other local place)
him: yes 
me: ok *driving*
hiim: what do you want
me: I already told you. I want xyz at place
him: let's go there
me: *quietly seething whilst driving* *pulls into parking lot at agreed upon place*

we eat. He seems ok. We had plans to go enjoy a day at ____ and in the car on the way there he started nodding off. 
I asked him if he was tired and would like to go home. 
He said no. I told him

me: ok if when we get there you're quite tired let me know; I've been there before so you won't be cramping my style. I want you to have fun and enjoy. 

We go in. I ask him if he'd like to go into the ____ room and he said
him: I'm not into this kind of stuff, I like _____ stuff, so I have no idea where to start. 
Me: *getting annoyed* ok let's go upstairs and see what you think. 
He starts looking at something that didn't hold my attention so I drifted a bit, thinking he'd join me shortly. After a bit I looked about and couldn't find him. I texted him and apparently he went outside the entire building because I left him. I was IN THE SAME FLOOR the entire fucking time. 

So i headed outside. And he was heading inside. I told him to turn around because we are leaving. And stormed to the car, drove him home in silence. Then told him 
me: if you didn't want to come, you could've saved me the time and energy of taking you there. 
Him: silence
me: *drives home* *gets home* you going inside
him: yes
me: ok bye I'm leaving *drives away*

now I'm aware the dude might be responding to my silent tension, who knows. He might be feeling all sorts of things. I was aware leaving might be the wrong thing. But I was goddamn annoyed at suppressing my wish to eat where I wanted to for someone who had no idea what he wanted instead, and being left after taking us somewhere nice, when I was all dressed up and hoping to have a nice date. We had such a spectacular day yesterday, I honestly thought today was going to be more of the same. 

I am certain I contributed but I don't want to have to walk on eggshells with this fucking man, which is funny because maybe in his mind he has to do that with me. 
Sigh.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

Shower me in a chorus of compliments and verse I don't deserve.


----------



## sinaasappel

acidicwithpanic said:


> Shower me in a chorus of compliments and verse I don't deserve.


I think that is a song.... That I know??? I think


Sent from Mini-Mangos iPod touch using Tapatalk


----------



## peter pettishrooms

As stupid as this sounds I have to rely on humor to make my boring side less evident. I don't think people realize how much I want someone to tell me, "Don't change because you are okay the way you are." :sad:


----------



## Ace Face

acidicwithpanic said:


> As stupid as this sounds I have to rely on humor to make my boring side less evident. I don't think people realize how much I want someone to tell me, "Don't change because you are okay the way you are." :sad:


Don't change. You are fucking awesome as shit just the way you are <3


----------



## peter pettishrooms

Ace Face said:


> Don't change. You are fucking awesome as shit just the way you are <3


----------



## Ace Face

acidicwithpanic said:


>


I love you, too!


----------



## Kintsugi

Animal said:


> People keep asking us if we feel different now that we're married. But I don't. I feel like we were married before we even met.


We are not married yet (probably will happen in late April early May). I know exactly how you feel. <3

Congratulations.


----------



## 6007

Wonder why every infj I know comes across as narcissistic.


----------



## 6007

I wonder sometimes if I'm too insensitive for others.
I think I was bad for the abused mr squeeze and also Byron. 
They remind me of eachother sometimes. Byron reminds me of a mixture of every person I've ever liked. 
It seems like the more I get to know him the more clearly I see how fucked up he is. 
It is like he has an external layer of parchment and a pit of snakes underneath and a repelling charm on top. 
Most people stay away due to repelling charm. 
But then he wanted to get close to me. And I inadvertently poke holes in the parchment.


----------



## 6007

Spent the morning talking to Byron. 
I just blabbed like I always do and it became obvious that when I do what I perceive to be sharing my perspective/explaining why I did stuff or reacted a certain way, he experiences that as blame because I don't mention all the things he did right, I am focusing on how I felt. I was like... I am not blaming you, I'm trying to let you understand where in my processing choices were made. I'm letting you in, dude.
but it was cool he told me that he needs to be given credit for the things he does and that makes sense given what I know about him thus far. So I can try and recalibrate. 
I apologized for my behavior because I knew, even in the moment, that what I was doing was not going to increase his sense of security and trust in our connection/me but goddamnit I was mad and my ego was having a field day with me. I told him I understand that it's hard to believe someone has your back if they stick a knife in it, to which he had nothing to say. Although he did admit some of his actions may have contributed to what transpired. 

Progress, then. 
Which is interesting. 
His approaches and ideas about things are so totally alien to me that I can't help but grow in listening. 
Ive known several abused people in my life and they often seem convoluted to me in their logic, but I think mine is too. So I can accept that. I don't have all the goddamn answers that's for sure. 
I liked that he told me that when people are mad he doesn't defuse the situation because he believes everything will blow over eventually. He doesn't grasp the concept that relationships can be damaged by repeated negative interaction at all. So in this sense we are quite mismatched because just a few negative interactions is enough to make me wanna scram. 

So... We shall see. 
I feel it's more productive to argue these days. I don't love it but it helps 

especially when I stop throwing things or storming away.


----------



## 6007

Couple things. 
Pretty sure one of my teachers knows mr squeeze. I'm also pretty sure he took my picture today. I also think he probably finds me interesting but I am not encouraging that. I could be wrong anyway. 
i was confiding in a friend about my last fight with Byron, at which point said friend basically tried to steal me away verbally. I felt sideswiped and then also crappy bexause this bloke is friends with Byron. And Byron was certain he liked me a little and I didn't think so--as my gut never got a read until just now. Ugh. 
Byron is intriguing. When we get along it is genuinely amazing. I have never felt so close to anyone. Our last argument seemed very productive because he was willing to simply talk instead of stew, and I feel really good about that since I might not have deserved it since I had a major ego explosion. But his viewpoint of things... If we fight he says it doesn't change his love for me. If I throw something--for example, his clothes all over the place--he doesn't view that as terrible. I don't wanna do that again, but I don't get scorched ass for doing it. He may be an actual crazy person who punches himself in the head but... He is very forgiving. 
I don't want to abuse his compassion so I want to actively grow. 

Dead robot never fought with me and I feel like if I threw something or acted crazy he would've left me. It was like my having normal anger was a horrible thing. I don't know... It's a new experience, not being considered defective.


----------



## Animal

My INFJ is currently talking to our INTJ friend. Ni Ni Ni

/purrr


----------



## Animal

Also, this doesn't belong in this thread but what the hell, this is the only thread I ever write in and people know me here. *Does anyone have an impression as to whether I'm an INFP or ENFP?* I promise I won't bite or balk - just curious. No pressure to answer if you don't have a strong gut feeling and/or analysis. Just curious if anyone has impressions. I'm certain that I'm one of those two types, so if you don't agree with that premise I won't be offended but I'm unlikely to consider it too seriously (fair warning)


----------



## Philathea

Animal said:


> Also, this doesn't belong in this thread but what the hell, this is the only thread I ever write in and people know me here. *Does anyone have an impression as to whether I'm an INFP or ENFP?* I promise I won't bite or balk - just curious. No pressure to answer if you don't have a strong gut feeling and/or analysis. Just curious if anyone has impressions. I'm certain that I'm one of those two types, so if you don't agree with that premise I won't be offended but I'm unlikely to consider it too seriously (fair warning)


INFP =) You use your Ne to build from others posts and emphasize your own subjective meaning you place on things. Your posts are very personal and self-referencing (not in a selfish way, in an Fi-way!). The Ne seems to back the Fi, rather than the other way around. But I'm an INFP myself and I relate to a lot of your posts, so I may be projecting =)


----------



## mimesis

Animal said:


> Also, this doesn't belong in this thread but what the hell, this is the only thread I ever write in and people know me here. *Does anyone have an impression as to whether I'm an INFP or ENFP?* I promise I won't bite or balk - just curious. No pressure to answer if you don't have a strong gut feeling and/or analysis. Just curious if anyone has impressions. I'm certain that I'm one of those two types, so if you don't agree with that premise I won't be offended but I'm unlikely to consider it too seriously (fair warning)


I think the differences can become less significant growing older, and Dom-Aux become more in balance, e.g. Fi-dom postponing judgement (prejudice) to entertain alternatives, vs Ne-dom (too openminded or unprejudiced) using Fi for structure and direction (e.g.commitment) entertaining alternatives...sort of. I also read that ENFP may be more inclined to repress anger (judgement), where I remember in the past you have referred to "dropping the Te-bomb" which I think accurately describes the inferior grip of the INFP, or the way Jung describes how unhealthy Fi becomes debased into personal tyranny. 

Now this is not something that I have ever seen you display here, despite your level of testosterone, lol, which would suggest ENFP, but I myself don't have the short fuse that I used to have, and I have the impression that is the same for you, though this hasn't often been topic of discussion, including envy related resentment and sx4 reactivity. Tbh I think INFP but if you think ENFP, I guess you are. Why not settle on xNFP? Heh. Yeah perhaps your thirst for entertaining alternatives would make a case for ENFP? 

You could compare the personal growth pages, which describe the issues these types may deal with when dom has yet to be balanced by aux. 

https://www.personalitypage.com/html/personal.html


----------



## Animal

Philathea said:


> INFP =) You use your Ne to build from others posts and emphasize your own subjective meaning you place on things. Your posts are very personal and self-referencing (not in a selfish way, in an Fi-way!). The Ne seems to back the Fi, rather than the other way around. But I'm an INFP myself and I relate to a lot of your posts, so I may be projecting =)





mimesis said:


> I think the differences can become less significant growing older, and Dom-Aux become more in balance, e.g. Fi-dom postponing judgement (prejudice) to entertain alternatives, vs Ne-dom (too openminded or unprejudiced) using Fi for structure and direction (e.g.commitment) entertaining alternatives...sort of. I also read that ENFP may be more inclined to repress anger (judgement), where I remember in the past you have referred to "dropping the Te-bomb" which I think accurately describes the inferior grip of the INFP, or the way Jung describes how unhealthy Fi becomes debased into personal tyranny.
> 
> Now this is not something that I have ever seen you display here, despite your level of testosterone, lol, which would suggest ENFP, but I myself don't have the short fuse that I used to have, and I have the impression that is the same for you, though this hasn't often been topic of discussion, including envy related resentment and sx4 reactivity. Tbh I think INFP but if you think ENFP, I guess you are. Why not settle on xNFP? Heh. Yeah perhaps your thirst for entertaining alternatives would make a case for ENFP?
> 
> You could compare the personal growth pages, which describe the issues these types may deal with when dom has yet to be balanced by aux.
> 
> https://www.personalitypage.com/html/personal.html


Thanks  It really helps to hear impressions. I have been leaning heavily toward INFP myself as I read more about functions, but I'm also interested in outside impressions .... to see if they line up. Right now I'm typing at INFP, but open to feedback. I typed at ENFP for a long time , but I'm _just not inconsistent in any way_... among other reasons. Out of anyone I know I've had the same taste, same interests, same aesthetic (with minor changes according to emotional phases), same music taste, same taste in people and men, same values, all of which expands and gets more and more developed over the years.... but my Fi is just so set in its ways, which is apparently not normal for Ne-first people. Also I feel like my pattern seeking serves to find possible ways to express my feelings or read people. It's not an end in and of itself the way Fi is. This is hardly the brunt of my thoughts on the matter, but just what comes to mind right now. As for ENFP, the only thing leaning in its favor is that I'm relatively good at dealing with real life matters all on my own, and my face is extremely expressive (though when I feel rejected, which is often, I resort to expressionlessness).

Others: feel free to comment too


----------



## Kintsugi

Animal said:


> Also, this doesn't belong in this thread but what the hell, this is the only thread I ever write in and people know me here. *Does anyone have an impression as to whether I'm an INFP or ENFP?* I promise I won't bite or balk - just curious. No pressure to answer if you don't have a strong gut feeling and/or analysis. Just curious if anyone has impressions. I'm certain that I'm one of those two types, so if you don't agree with that premise I won't be offended but I'm unlikely to consider it too seriously (fair warning)


You always struck me as an irrational/perceiving type (not in the MBTI sense, but Socionics. So between ENFP and INFP I'd go with the former). I'm an ESFP but I'm so socially introverted and quite withdrawn that I have questioned whether or not I am ISFP at times. However, I also fit irrational/perceiving over rational/judging dominant.


----------



## Animal

The Perfect Storm said:


> You always struck me as an irrational/perceiving type (not in the MBTI sense, but Socionics. So between ENFP and INFP I'd go with the former). I'm an ESFP but I'm so socially introverted and quite withdrawn that I have questioned whether or not I am ISFP at times. However, I also fit irrational/perceiving over rational/judging dominant.


Hm.. can you explain what irrational / perceiving is and why it applies to me? (No pressure if it's just a gut hunch.. im just curious )


----------



## Kintsugi

Animal said:


> Hm.. can you explain what irrational / perceiving is and why it applies to me? (No pressure if it's just a gut hunch.. im just curious )


Sure. 

I'll copy and paste the basic definition and distinction between the two (taken from; Rationality and irrationality - Wikisocion - which is one of the more reliable Socionics sources, imo).



> *Rationals*
> 
> (_Also called *shizotymes* in early socionics literature_)
> 
> 
> Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early.
> Are more often rigid and stubborn.
> Do not like to change their decisions.
> Tend to finish what they started.
> Usually have stiff movements.
> Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.
> Low stress tolerance.
> *Irrationals*
> 
> (_Also called *cyclotymes* in early socionics literature_)
> 
> 
> Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous.
> Are more often flexible and tolerant.
> Change their decisions frequently.
> Tend to start new things without finishing them.
> Usually have gentle movements.
> Usually more 'democratic' leadership style.
> High stress tolerance.


For reference, "irrationals" are types with a Pe/Pi (perceiving) function in the dominant position (INTJ,INFJ,ISTJ,ISFJ,ENTP,ESTP,ESFP,ENFP), and "rationals" are those with the Je/Ji lead (INFP,ISFP,ENTJ,ESTJ etc).

The reason I say I think you fall in the "irrational" category is that you come across as a lot more "fluid" and changeable in your judgements, and seem more comfortable when in the position of perceiving (or "absorbing" collecting data, if you like). Judging dominants tend to be more confident in the categorization of data (and can sometimes appear too "rigid" and even "narrow-minded" to some irrational dominants. Of course, they can also find irrational dominants to be a little too "flaky" and unfocused when it comes to their decisions and judgements).

I have noticed your approach to typing others (on the Enneagram forum) seems more like an irrational approach. Of course, it could be something completely different I'm picking up on. The key is really to focus not on your outward behaviour, but how your mind is drawing in and sorting/filtering information (cognition). This is why two types can, outwardly, seem very different (behaviourally). An xNFP will obviously be strong in both Ne and Fi; in this case, it comes down to whether or not you are most confident when you are Ne-ing or Fi-ing. Another interesting way of looking at it might be thinking about what your weaker (subconscious) functions may be. Sometimes these stand out more to us because do not saturate and dominate our perception in the way that the lead function does (which can lead to a case of not seeing what's right in front of your eyes, if that makes sense).

Also, just to add. There are various "subtype" theories that have helped some explain the differences between two identical types. For example, my fiancée is an INTJ (Ni dominant), but he seems to be more Te-heavy than other Ni-dominant types (he has been typed as ENTJ a few times). In socionics, he would possibly fall under the ILI-Te (or INTJ-Te subtype), as he is definitely an Ni (irrational) dominant. Similarly, I think that I am more likely the ESFP-Fi subtype (as opposed to ESFP-Se). Honestly, I got really confused about it all so I went exploring into the dark and scary depths of Socionics theory (which is a bit of a head-fuck), and looked into something called "cognitive styles", and realised that my cognition matched that of the ESFP over ISFP (if you are interested, here is an article on it....be warned, it's really difficult to digest, it's also a translation, so it might not read that coherently; Socionics - the16types.info - Forms of Cognition by Victor Gulenko ).

I am coming from a Socionics perspective here though, so it might be confusing it you were looking for more MBTI-related answers.


----------



## Rala

INFP.

Baddest INFP ever.


----------



## Animal

The Perfect Storm said:


> Sure.


Thank you 
I will try to respond to this in an unbiased way, though admittedly nobody can see the forest through the trees in terms of themselves, but I've received a lot of feedback through the years so that helps too..

I'll bold the ones that apply to me. Commentary in italics

Rationals

(Also called shizotymes in early socionics literature)



Tend to plan ahead, make decisions early. - _this is confusing, not a straight yes or no. I plan the things that are important, but don't care about most things and can take them as they come._
*Are more often rigid and stubborn.*
*Do not like to change their decisions.*
*Tend to finish what they started.*
Usually have stiff movements. - _doubt it_
*Usually more 'authoritarian' leadership style.*
Low stress tolerance. - _excellent stress tolerance in terms of dealing with life. non-existent tolerance in terms of being told what to do or how to live my own life. This is not even something I would tolerate whatsoever, to the point I'd rather be isolated on an island than deal with that crap, but I have a chronic illness and not much choice but to be around family, so that is the only reason this issue even arises. Other people who try that shit learn fast to back off._

Irrationals

(Also called cyclotymes in early socionics literature)



Tend to wait and see, more spontaneous. - _Only because I don't care about most things. I don't like spontaneous plans however. I'm already doing what I'm doing and don't appreciate being pulled away, nor do I adjust to other people's schedules. I'm spontaneous about the things I'm in charge of; I do them when and how I see fit._
Are more often flexible and tolerant. - _I'm very tolerant of people's personal choices, personalities, feelings, etc. Completely intolerant of impositions on my own. Again, outside of family that I can't get away from because of illness, those are non-existant as they get filtered out of my life._
Change their decisions frequently. - _Not any decision that matters. Small things, sure._
Tend to start new things without finishing them. - _No. I'm very hesitant to start anything new as it detracts from things I'm already deeply invested in._
Usually have gentle movements. - _Gentle? hahahha I can hear my whole family laughing at this one_
Usually more 'democratic' leadership style. - _No, I don't believe in equality. Every project must have a visionary. I'm very empathetic and open to hear people's input but I make it crystal clear that if it's my project (music or writing), I have the final say. If it's someone else's project, I respect that they have final say and I invest only in enacting their vision, not in sharing mine. I am usually in the position of leadership because I'm very attached to my own visions and sense of purpose that I've been expanding on and pursuing through my whole life._
High stress tolerance. - _again,_ _excellent stress tolerance in terms of dealing with life. non-existent tolerance in terms of being told what to do or how to live my own life. _



> I'll copy and paste the basic definition and distinction between the two (taken from; Rationality and irrationality - Wikisocion - which is one of the more reliable Socionics sources, imo).
> 
> 
> 
> For reference, "irrationals" are types with a Pe/Pi (perceiving) function in the dominant position (INTJ,INFJ,ISTJ,ISFJ,ENTP,ESTP,ESFP,ENFP), and "rationals" are those with the Je/Ji lead (INFP,ISFP,ENTJ,ESTJ etc).


Thank you again. 



> The reason I say I think you fall in the "irrational" category is that you come across as a lot more "fluid" and changeable in your judgements, and seem more comfortable when in the position of perceiving (or "absorbing" collecting data, if you like). Judging dominants tend to be more confident in the categorization of data (and can sometimes appear too "rigid" and even "narrow-minded" to some irrational dominants. Of course, they can also find irrational dominants to be a little too "flaky" and unfocused when it comes to their decisions and judgements).
> 
> I have noticed your approach to typing others (on the Enneagram forum) seems more like an irrational approach. Of course, it could be something completely different I'm picking up on. The key is really to focus not on your outward behaviour, but how your mind is drawing in and sorting/filtering information (cognition). This is why two types can, outwardly, seem very different (behaviourally). An xNFP will obviously be strong in both Ne and Fi; in this case, it comes down to whether or not you are most confident when you are Ne-ing or Fi-ing. Another interesting way of looking at it might be thinking about what your weaker (subconscious) functions may be. Sometimes these stand out more to us because do not saturate and dominate our perception in the way that the lead function does (which can lead to a case of not seeing what's right in front of your eyes, if that makes sense).
> 
> Also, just to add. There are various "subtype" theories that have helped some explain the differences between two identical types. For example, my fiancée is an INTJ (Ni dominant), but he seems to be more Te-heavy than other Ni-dominant types (he has been typed as ENTJ a few times). In socionics, he would possibly fall under the ILI-Te (or INTJ-Te subtype), as he is definitely an Ni (irrational) dominant. Similarly, I think that I am more likely the ESFP-Fi subtype (as opposed to ESFP-Se). Honestly, I got really confused about it all so I went exploring into the dark and scary depths of Socionics theory (which is a bit of a head-fuck), and looked into something called "cognitive styles", and realised that my cognition matched that of the ESFP over ISFP (if you are interested, here is an article on it....be warned, it's really difficult to digest, it's also a translation, so it might not read that coherently; Socionics - the16types.info - Forms of Cognition by Victor Gulenko ).
> 
> I am coming from a Socionics perspective here though, so it might be confusing it you were looking for more MBTI-related answers.


Yeah I see what you mean  I'm thinking from a socionics/ JCF perspective too, so we're on the same page there. I'll have to think about the rest. My typing process in public is probably not a good indicator of what goes on internally, but it might indicate something of course. I will answer that part soon.


----------



## 6007

Byron often says he is the coolest person he knows. 
Secretly, I've always thought I was the coolest person I knew. When I admitted that to Jareth the ENTJ he found that repulsive. 
It was odd to me that my self congratulatory manner was considered a flaw. 
He is a mega Christian (a Protestant of all things *cringe*) so maybe that's why. But also he seemed like... Well he definitely wanted to be the center of my universe whilst paying lip service to the notion it would go both ways. 

The tiny Byron is so much more attractive. I don't know what it is about him really. I know we are different but I like him. He pushes my buttons and says and does crazy shit sometimes but he forgives me when I do and I seem to do the same. I don't love him the way I loved anyone else. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 6007

Him: I asked you to come here while I was crying. You know who I cry before? No one. Maybe my best friend, but that's it.

Me: and why is that?

Him: you're obviously of some comfort to me...

This keeps turning over in my mind. It was his bday recently and I wonder how he's doing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 6007

Just cried. It was cathartic. 
I have no idea where this is going with Byron. LDR are so difficult. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kintsugi

Last night I got so angry that I wanted to smash things, again.

It's terrifying when that happens, it's like I'm possessed. Luckily, I was able to ask for help and take myself aside to "cool down" before I let the emotion overcome me.

People keep saying, "find a healthy and non-destructive outlet for your anger"...

_*Fine. PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THAT IS BECAUSE I'M RUNNING OUT OF OPTIONS.

*_I like punching things and getting physical when I feel the anger. Sometimes I punch pillows but it's not that satisfying unless someone else is holding them and it feels like I'm smashing someone's face in. 

Damn.


----------



## cinnabun

Nap dates are the best things ever xD.

Not as good as our actual date, because going to my favourite place to eat (which is also his favourite woohoo) and then to the cinema only means one thing: food, food and more food. Btw Deadpool was awesome and anyone considering to go see it who hasn't yet should ^_^.
_
So _giving into my period cravings but idgaf. I'm fat and happy xD.

But yeah naps are awesome.

You know what's not awesome though? Horror movies :/. Finally at age 23 I'm over my scary movie fear, and...they all suck donkey dick o_o, like for real. Was so not impressed, but maybe I just watched awful ones. The purge 2...should never have been born. Wow. Fucking awful. 0/10 would not bang.

Anyone know any decent horror movies?


----------



## Sygma

ripley said:


> So what I'm realizing with Byron is, he doesn't have empathy.
> At least... Not towards me.
> So now I'm trying to remember any time he has shown compassion towards anyone, feeling with them. And...
> i don't think he has empathy.


Run


----------



## 6007

Sygma said:


> Run


Hmmm. 
He doesn't lack empathy in the sense of killing animals for fun. 
He definitely has intense compassion for animals and little kids. 
He mostly takes off when I cry or can't admit and fault in the moment. But later on he does. 

He is complex.


----------



## mimesis

ripley said:


> Hmmm.
> He doesn't lack empathy in the sense of killing animals for fun.
> He definitely has intense compassion for animals and little kids.
> He mostly takes off when I cry or can't admit and fault in the moment. But later on he does.
> 
> He is complex.


It's possible to shut off empathy when it is an "unfair" person. 



Empathy said:


> Using fMRI, neuroscientist Tania Singer
> showed that empathy-related neural responses are significantly lower in males when observing an "unfair" person experiencing pain.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy


Not suggesting that you are, but I mean to serve and protect right? 










It's not that complex. Love is war is complex.


----------



## 6007

mimesis said:


> It's possible to shut off empathy when it is an "unfair" person.
> 
> 
> 
> Not suggesting that you are, but I mean to serve and protect right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that complex. Love is war is complex.


That's possible. 
I think he's more complex than me,
Mostly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 6007

So...
Byron has decided to move here. 
Part of me is really leaping in my heart the other part is like

WHAT AM I DOING

omg omg OMG omg

I brought up my ideal situation last night and he got weirded out and left and I sat home and cried. Then he came back drunk and agreed to my ideal situation. 

The guy is definitely different.


----------



## 6007

I've never exactly been plan oriented but I've also never been too comfortable not knowing where things are headed. 

In the last year and a half, except Jareth, I was involved with guys who "wait and see" and let situations simply unfold. Mr Squeeze was a good example. He just wanted to watch how things would play out. El Diablo had intentions and ideas but also liked to see where things led naturally. The king of all this is Byron. 

He stalked me online for a couple of months before we ever spoke on the phone. I remember sending him voice clips, certain hearing my voice would make him like me *more,* so I'm aware I wanted him to like me. I remember wanting to throw my computer around because he was so cute. And he bought some stuff off me, so I sent him a bunch of extra stuff. So I definitely liked him, but I didn't pursue him. I only pursue men once in a while. Shiny Pants was one. EEYORE the infp was another; I really seem to go after infp guys, otherwise I'm mega beta with men. What I typically do is let a guy know I am interested and then it is on him to hunt me down. I LOVE a decisive man. But until Byron, I sort of wonder if I've ever truly wanted anyone before because I'm pretty nuts (in general and) about him. 

The first time he called me he started saying he wanted to be with me and he didn't care if we had kids or not. The night before I'd told Jareth "all I want is to hear you say you want me more than kids" and then crazy Byron called me out of nowhere and said it to me. 

What kind of man talks about marrying you and having children before he's ever met you? 

A psycho. 

My kind of psycho. 

I was like 

"Oh, so this is it then. This is how it happens. One day you just get a call. How funny. Why am I thinking about Dawson's creek right now? He reminds me of Pacey. I wonder why. Who could say no to Pacey? No one..."

Mind you I never saw Dawson's creek until I was 30 to try and understand the 90s better and I was NOT enamored of Joey and Pacey but brains are funny like that; at least mine are. (Pretty sure Pacey is an enneagram 6.)

I remember telling Jareth "Byron called me on the phone last night... Apparently he likes me, and I think I have feelings for him."

And Jareth saying "ok, why are you telling me this?" And I said "it might impact you, and I never want to lie to you about anything that could impact you." But then didn't hear from Byron for a couple of days (he thought I was ignoring him!) and feeling uncertain. 

So what's clear is I am a giant romantic, which I already knew, and I'm batshit crazy, which I suspected. 

Then I met Byron on vacation and I've NEVER felt that level of unselfconscious affection toward a person ever. 

When I cook, I listen to d'Angelo. Being with Byron felt EXACTLY like baking and listening to d'Angelo. I never once thought about how I was coming across. I was fully in the moment. I liked him and I didn't mind being obvious. I didn't care if it went romantic or sexual, I just wanted him in my life in any way he wanted to be in my life. From the get go, that was just the case. I remember telling my mom that, and then her saying "get a real man. He's a waiter. He's short. He's a drug addict." And me obstinately repeating "I want him in my life. I don't care HOW."

Before he called me on the phone I was praying every single night. For months. Same prayer. I have had to force myself not to say it since he has arrived, that's how deeply entrenched the habit is. I basically prayed for a man whose heart was open to mine and mine to his, one who wouldn't let any obstacle stand in his way, one who never wavered in his devotion to me. Even in our worst fights, he still says "I love you" if I say it first. And he stubbornly says "nothing will stop me from loving you."

I can't explain exactly why it is that he makes simply being alive better. Or why I get plunged into such agonizing darkness when we fight. But what's cool is that the more we quarrel the more I'm burning off karma it feels like. (Or maybe I'm nuts... What am I saying I am TOTALLY nuts but...) he is helping me to see that love doesn't really change because of a fight or discord, which has never been my reality in my life. Last night he left me, knowing I was in a dark mindset, to go have some beer. I simply cried, and felt hope. Because I trust him. I trust he will always go where I lead and I think because of that I can do the same for him. 

And then he came back drunk and basically did what I thought he might and I didn't complain or feel weird at all. He has his process and I have mine. As long as there is respect there I think it's ok. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mimesis

ripley said:


> That's possible.
> I think he's more complex than me,
> Mostly.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol, women can be complex too!

Like they don't want a man to be a doormat and a wussy. That would feel wrong, intuitively I guess. Like unsafe, or not feeling better off with than without him. So, how can a woman find out she is better off, or safe...? 

Of course, it might be different for you because you are dominant. 

Anyway, it's clear that at that moment he isn't protecting the damsel in distress, but protecting himself, perhaps because of insecure attachment and suspicion. 

Naranjo also mentioned "identification with the aggressor". 


* *




Anna Freud posits that Identification with the Aggressor, as a defense, is an intermediate step in the development of the superego. She describes several cases in which children identified not with an aggressor who had subjected them to some unpleasant experience, but with a perceived aggressor who would, in the future, punish them or otherwise treat them cruelly. One little boy would furiously ring the bell of the children's home where he lived. When the housemaid opened the door, he would scold her "loudly for being so slow and not listening for the bell. In the interval between pulling the bell and flying into a rage he experienced anxiety lest he should be reproved for his lack of consideration in ringing so loudly...The aggressiveness which he assumed was turned against the actual person from whom he expected aggression and not against some substitute."

In this way, Anna Freud ties the identification (in identification with the aggressor) with projection of guilt. I am not the aggressor, that other person is. I am the good serial killer, they are the bad serial killers. And thus, Identification with the Aggressor is viewed as a normal, but intermediate step in the development of the superego. "The internalized criticism is not yet immediately transformed into self-criticism." The final step involves the "ego's perception of its own fault."


 

And this can be related to shutting off empathy.


----------



## mimesis

ripley said:


> So...
> Byron has decided to move here.
> Part of me is really leaping in my heart the other part is like
> 
> WHAT AM I DOING
> 
> omg omg OMG omg
> 
> I brought up my ideal situation last night and he got weirded out and left and I sat home and cried. Then he came back drunk and agreed to my ideal situation.
> 
> The guy is definitely different.


:laughing: lol


----------



## 6007

mimesis said:


> Lol, women can be complex too!
> 
> Like they don't want a man to be a doormat and a wussy. That would feel wrong, intuitively I guess. Like unsafe, or not feeling better off with than without him. So, how can a woman find out she is better off, or safe...?
> 
> Of course, it might be different for you because you are dominant.
> 
> Anyway, it's clear that at that moment he isn't protecting the damsel in distress, but protecting himself, perhaps because of insecure attachment and suspicion.
> 
> Naranjo also mentioned "identification with the aggressor".
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anna Freud posits that Identification with the Aggressor, as a defense, is an intermediate step in the development of the superego. She describes several cases in which children identified not with an aggressor who had subjected them to some unpleasant experience, but with a perceived aggressor who would, in the future, punish them or otherwise treat them cruelly. One little boy would furiously ring the bell of the children's home where he lived. When the housemaid opened the door, he would scold her "loudly for being so slow and not listening for the bell. In the interval between pulling the bell and flying into a rage he experienced anxiety lest he should be reproved for his lack of consideration in ringing so loudly...The aggressiveness which he assumed was turned against the actual person from whom he expected aggression and not against some substitute."
> 
> In this way, Anna Freud ties the identification (in identification with the aggressor) with projection of guilt. I am not the aggressor, that other person is. I am the good serial killer, they are the bad serial killers. And thus, Identification with the Aggressor is viewed as a normal, but intermediate step in the development of the superego. "The internalized criticism is not yet immediately transformed into self-criticism." The final step involves the "ego's perception of its own fault."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this can be related to shutting off empathy.


Maybe the more accurate way of explaining it is, his complexities stump ME. But I suppose it's possible I am complex too, I'm just inside me so I don't see myself as too complex. 

And that hilarious quote about the kid reminds me of Byron! He likes to say "babe babe babe... FINE you don't love me!" Or "what what what?" And then when I respond loudly "WHY ARE YOU YELLING?" He is a total brat and I love it even though it is annoying. 

I personally just want a man who is very decided on me, and allows me to be the same in return. I am extremely enduring. Like... It's a bad quality in my case. When I am in, I am in. I need that sort of stability too, so flip flopping doesn't work for my needs at all. 

But then I also want a man who can switch and bottom sometimes. I don't mind a boy wearing a dress or being a princess. As much as it disturbs me, I am a Mommy type. I always have been. I mistakenly thought I was masculine in this, wanting to be a provider and a caretaker but I think Mommy covers it well. And lucky me, Byron LOVES being mommied and then being a complete brat. Like a cat who wants to be pet and then bites you. That's him. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mimesis

ripley said:


> Maybe the more accurate way of explaining it is, his complexities stump ME. But I suppose it's possible I am complex too, I'm just inside me so I don't see myself as too complex.
> 
> And that hilarious quote about the kid reminds me of Byron! He likes to say "babe babe babe... FINE you don't love me!" Or "what what what?" And then when I respond loudly "WHY ARE YOU YELLING?" He is a total brat and I love it even though it is annoying.
> 
> I personally just want a man who is very decided on me, and allows me to be the same in return. I am extremely enduring. Like... It's a bad quality in my case. When I am in, I am in. I need that sort of stability too, so flip flopping doesn't work for my needs at all.
> 
> But then I also want a man who can switch and bottom sometimes. I don't mind a boy wearing a dress or being a princess. As much as it disturbs me, I am a Mommy type. I always have been. I mistakenly thought I was masculine in this, wanting to be a provider and a caretaker but I think Mommy covers it well. And lucky me, Byron LOVES being mommied and then being a complete brat. Like a cat who wants to be pet and then bites you. That's him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When it matches, it seems so simple


----------



## 6007

mimesis said:


> When it matches, it seems so simple


But he hasn't worn a dress yet!
I'm thinking a little blue one. That I can also wear when he's the big bad wolf. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mimesis

ripley said:


> But he hasn't worn a dress yet!
> I'm thinking a little blue one. That I can also wear when he's the big bad wolf.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Tsk tsk...if he wants to be a princess, he *has* to wear a dress. 

Perhaps a sarong, for starters?


----------



## Donovan

mimesis said:


> It's possible to shut off empathy when it is an "unfair" person.
> 
> 
> 
> Not suggesting that you are, but I mean to serve and protect right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not that complex. Love is war is complex.


is that you in the pic Mim? if so... nice scarf.


----------



## Sygma

ripley said:


> So...
> Byron has decided to move here.
> Part of me is really leaping in my heart the other part is like
> 
> WHAT AM I DOING
> 
> omg omg OMG omg
> 
> I brought up my ideal situation last night and he got weirded out and left and I sat home and cried. Then he came back drunk and agreed to my ideal situation.
> 
> The guy is definitely different.


Yeah if he need to be drunk in order to accept your ideals he might very well be


----------



## mimesis

Donovan said:


> is that you in the pic Mim? if so... nice scarf.


:shocked: Impersonating a police officer would be a criminal offence!

Though I agree, it is indeed a nice scarf.


----------



## Laguna

ripley said:


> A like isn't enough for this.
> This is amazing.
> Thank you for posting this.
> 
> 
> Sent from


You're very welcome.
Laguna


----------



## 6007

Potential typos ahead, as I'm using voice to text to get this off my chest. 

I went out last night with Byron, my angelic friend, and our super Beta friend.

My angelic friend has been dating this complete tool bag, who happens to be famous, not super famous, but famous enough to have his own Wikipedia page and people who fan girl him. I've heard a lot about this guy for months, and a lot of stuff I don't like. For example, the time he fucked my friend in the ass without asking first. You don't give someone the surprise gift of anal. So before I met him, I was already not impressed. Bad press and all. 

Then I saw him, and I looked at Byron and asked "would it be rude of me if I asked him if he was half a *********?" Then I started snickering, because I have a pitch black heart and a very very inappropriate sense of humor.

Unfortunately this asshole brought his friend along, who is a very close talker. Invading my space and breathing down my neck. I was not pleased, and as my irritation started to grow, so did my aggression. For some reason, I made an offhand comment about my dick being bigger than most peoples and that I can't stand pussified men. Mr famous has a horrible handshake and touching him pissed me off. He also seems to have poor boundaries and that he was clearly in my way and would not hand me my purse, instead making me Climb In front of him and then he insisted on shaking my hand even though I didn't look interested at all as I was leaving.

Byron didn't like either. He overheard someone outside saying "did you see mr famous? I had no idea he looked like that." Then Byron was like "yeah he fell out of the ugly tree, hit every branch going down, landed on a trampoline, and hit all the branches he missed."

In the car Byron expressed he didn't like how close Mr Famous's friend was to me, nor how Mr Famous wouldn't give me my purse. I said "perhaps he was taught not to touch a woman's purse but... I didn't like it either. He has poor boundaries and little respect for women, it seems."

Thank fucking god Angel didn't go home with him. 

Honestly. She is a ten. He is fucking Smeagol. I don't get it. 


And I wouldn't be so hard on him if he hadn't been a tasteless, crass, former high school nerd turned alpha wannabe who fucks women half his age and strings them along no matter how cruel. 

Fuck. That. Guy. 

I was a total cunt to him, and good. That fake alpha can be ground under my heels, where he belongs. 


Sent from


----------



## 6007

This morning my partner, looking for words to describe me said I was "gangster." I've heard stuff like this before, but it's been a while.

And in true Byron form, everything he says has a way of manifesting. Which I've told him. So what happened was, someone came to my front door, knocked, and turned around so all I could see was the back of their head through my peephole. 

I would never have imagined seeing the back of someone's head to be so anxiety provoking, but I was really nervous. He left, only to return. He knocked again, and again he turned around before I can look out of the peephole. I could see he was wearing sunglasses, and he appeared to take something out of my mailbox. At this point, I was amped up to 10. I texted my neighbor, and I picked up my drill. I opened my door and it turned out he was looking for my neighbor. 

My anxiety quickly turned to aggression. I told him, "look dude when you knock on somebody's door, you need to face the door because almost hit you upside the head with something heavy."

Then I exited the conversation like a fucking lady and went inside. 

But as always, when I get aggro on people, I feel bad afterward. I hate being provoked or allowing myself to lose control like that, and I have no one to blame except myself. 

I'm working on my EQ but it's clear to me I am a fairly aggressive person, which can be good in a fight, but otherwise fucking sucks. 

I'll try and work on it. 


Sent from


----------



## daleks_exterminate

You treat me like im a princess. I'm not used to liking that.


----------



## Animal

daleks_exterminate said:


> You treat me like im a princess. I'm not used to liking that.


Alanis!!!! I love that song <3 I used to listen to it when I was a teenager, but never imagined it would happen to me.


----------



## Kintsugi

I sure know how to throw one hell of a temper-tantrum.

Looking for wedding dresses apparently brings out the "Bridezilla" in me. >_>


----------



## 6007

It's funny how often people will ask me questions and I do not reciprocate with questions. 

I don't ask a lot of questions. I expect people to simply share with me. If I spontaneously say something, that is my cue to permit others to do the same. If they do not, I presume they aren't interested in me and I move on. 

I was talking to Byron and realized I don't have friends. I have fans. 

Is that how everyone experiences friendship? My friends get startstuck over me sometimes. It is odd. And I'm very complimentary of them. If I have a good thought for them I say it all the time. I am a fan of my friends in return. 

But even Byron noticed it. I have a friend who is convinced I am God and another who calls me the eighth wonder of the world. It's really sweet and flattering and cute too. 

I wonder if all friends are like that. 

Painting class. I already want to punch my teacher in the face. She sent us the syllabus last night with our supplies. Effectively making it quite hard to buy them before class; luckily she supplies her own for a fee. The cunt. And in the email, she cc everyone. So now everyone has my email. 

I am going to have to try very hard to not confront her about both of these issues. I might fail. 

That email is my legit personal most used email. GDI. What an incompetent retard. 


Sent from


----------



## 6007

Last night I got high with Byron. 
I usually don't like weed at all because it often gives me a bad trip. 
I smoked the first time I met Byron, it was a weekend. The weed was weak, it made me slightly chatty but otherwise didn't really feel like anything. Then I had an edible a friend made a month or so after that and nothing happened then either. So I decided to try it but only half a dose just in case. 

I am so glad it was only half. I got all the bad shit I prefer to avoid. Brain wobbles. Anxiety. Seeing the world in snapshots. Falling into a reverie about ENTJ. 

In my reverie I saw Jareth the ENTJ and realized if (this was a totally absorbing fantasy and I have a hard time conjuring the intensity now that I'm sober) he is thwarted in life, he will kill me and Byron; at least, if it's the darkest timeline. 

So I saw virgin fetishist controlled military Jareth and his doughy pasty Kevin spacey face. And imagined if he doesn't find a wife for kids he will decide im the root cause. Fly to my house. Like sit in a hotel and film a confession video and fucking come over and kill me because it's all my fault. 

It seemed so possible and absorbing in my imagination. I was lying on Byron and tunneling backwards into my mind cave. In my imagining I remember hearing myself laughing bitterly because I met Jareth at my lowest point, and sunk even lower after seeing him. I was insane. And he was attracted to me. Somehow in my mind I pieced that together. Like attracts like. I was insane; clearly he was too. Clearly he IS because I eventually stopped resonating with him. Then I laughed inwardly because dead robot made it possible for a narcissistic sociopath to get past my filters. 

Shortly after this fantasy I sobered up. At some point I know I thought of el Diablo, unless I dreamt of him. 

Basically, Diablo continues to be sifted through my mental debris. I sense on some level he truly meant more to me than I like to admit. I sensed that when I saw him last. I just got the feeling I tried to bury him. Because I couldn't have him. He just wouldn't let it happen. I did tell him during our falling out that he had been enough for me. Which I'm sure he didn't expect to hear because shit never gets real between us. I was open about stuff but there was a wall he erected and I couldn't get past it. 

I don't talk to him at all anymore and I definitely love Byron more, but to be perfectly honest I believe I loved el Diablo very much and I could have fallen in love with him. But he didn't want that so it never happened. But objectively, he has many qualities to keep me occupied and content for years. I admire his ambition and his mind. He is sexy and I like how he fucks and kisses. He is cute enough and ugly enough to be nice to look at. 

Byron is a much better match. Byron has much less ambition. Byron fits my actual life. Byron has a depth in his heart and spirit, and he is actually handsome and gorgeous. I was in the same place at the same time with Byron and diablo several times and the pull to Byron was irresistible every time. Like... Diablo who? I left him in the dust without meaning to. But the guy never treated me like he loved me, in fact the weekend I met Byron I was having Secret sex with diablo and diablo was treating me with such distance around others it was almost awkward. The day Byron arrived everyone else became pretty much irrelevant. He was my favorite person and that was that. 

But it was an awkward reshuffling. I had to change several connections and I didn't care. He is the game changer guy. But diablo could have been that I think; I think that's what my head is telling me. He could have been. He chose not to. And that shit makes a lot of difference. 

Can't say I've met many game changing men in my life. But I think a few I met could have been if they wanted to. I'm glad they didn't because it would've failed in the end. Beautiful mr squeeze was capricious and cruel in his own ways. Diablo thinks the world is a banquet and he wants to sample everything and everyone. I was surprised he spent time to message me and let me know he missed the sex. Apparently the grass isn't greener in that department. Made me sad though. 

Sigh. 

I think as people we are accidentally shitty to each other often. 


Sent from planet earth, somewhere.


----------



## 6007

I'm becoming aware that being mean to people is hysterical to me but only if they started it. Like if they try to make me feel shitty, or they are mean to my friend, then I would like to see them cry or fall on their own sword of bravado. Oh you thought you had the upper hand. That's cute. 




Sent from


----------



## 6007

I was convinced I was going to stop breathing or swallow my own tongue when I was high. 

I was trying to lay on Byron and breathe and talk myself out of it. But it was legit. 


Sent from my brain


----------



## Veggie

I'm done with my job in about a month. I'm having major issues forcing myself to go in at all though, but that's when I pull out the budget and lists. Luckily I've done a lot of work on anger, because the other day I felt about a minute away from hitting something. But I can control myself. I do the seven rationalization thing too often. The place I'm managing is a lot nicer than other places in the area, but it's image _is_ wrong imo. It's not a spa, clinic or home office. The association is still there. Both books I've been reading have been about the complexities of association on the mind and mood, actually. Both in desire and presentation. But yea, people have told me that hand jobs are definitely being given in these other places. And worse. It's been this whole county council issue.

(This might be inappropriate but it was in my YouTube this morning and it made me feel better, lol):






I paid off everything I needed to pay off, I got experience with the contracting, it forced me to get paperwork and what not back up to date, and I was the first person not to flake on them entirely which hopefully got their journey kick started too. I think they were already in the hole. And I very explicitly said I couldn't definitely commit to a time length. Hopefully we just part ways without issue.

I can't even say that I haven't had anyone ever try anything anymore. Dude definitely exposed himself to me the other day. Like just standing in the room when I walked in. My reaction was "whoa! OK!" in a way that I did actually feel out of control over. Then those feelings snowball and effect other situations... He played stupid through the door like he just didn't understand my instructions and seemed embarrassed, but people lie and pull weird things. Another dude has a condition where I work on the adductors more than I otherwise would. He sent an email from a urologist and sees a Physical Therapist too, very polite, seemed trustworthy, but - it's like...is helping this man to get an erection and then some (I mean it's with pain too, and it's not like on the table, but still) through these means really _that_ different, even if legal? Again, it's all association. I'm pretty desensitized to the body at this point, but I'm starting to feel a shift there too. I don't want to be anymore. Most of my clients are men (as opposed to mostly female at the spa) and it's starting to bother me. At least for this point in my life. Or maybe all the associations are just muddying my view. I'm really happy that it's bothering ME though and not some jealous SO. (Or neighborhood watch group trying to stigmatize something when I don't agree). Not that all dudes would care, but it is something I've thought about. I really don't want to feel controlled. I want my boundaries to be personal.

I read that sx 7's can sort of feel this steady stream of affection towards the world. I think ate my karma there, lol. Simultaneously forming these close friendships with people I'd never met online, and then being so physically close with strangers physically at work. Mental paranoid breakdown. But it's been freeing too. You get choosier and you get smarter with the specificities of risk prevention. Practically. Which I think is less paranoid, really... (then like following some pre-determined rule book of what is and isn't healthy or toxic).


----------



## Veggie

^ "Click the link in the description to donate to **Handjobs for Humanity** and help displaced refugees in need." :laughing:


----------



## Gorgon

I've been on an upward swing lately. I feel happier, healthier, and more alive. I hope to stay on this path for a loooooooong time. I'm ready to go back to school and build connections. I want to end my last year of college strong. I hope I'll be able to get into a Masters' program. My transcript is a clusterfuck. Hopefully, I can compensate with awesome GRE scores and an excellent letter of intent, both of which I am not too worried about. Did you notice that I have used the word 'hope' a lot? A grand wish for sustained optimism it is.


----------



## 6007

I was just thinking how cool and comforting and sweet Byron was when I was high. 

Man. That guy is great. 


Sent from


----------



## peter pettishrooms

Gee, who would've thought that a post-beer-pong picture of me would've caught your attention and ignite some kind of friendship between us. O_O


----------



## 6007

acidicwithpanic said:


> Gee, who would've thought that a post-beer-pong picture of me would've caught your attention and ignite some kind of friendship between us. O_O


I mean, that's all it would take to get my friendship. 


Sent from


----------



## 6007

So I just saw a Meetup for highly sensitive persons and it was like "are you sensitive to light and noise? Do you like art and music?" I was like UM YES. "Take this inventory and see if you might by hsp."

So I did. I checked almost every single box. 

I honestly have no idea if I'm hsp. However, I have a special gift for comforting a meltdown in those with aspbergers. I completely understand their needs. I'm like, someone squeeze that mother fucker tight and lessen all the stimulation. My best friend is bipolar and has aspberger's. She makes complete sense to me. A Binky and a weighted blanket can do wonders for her. 

I can't explain why it makes sense except to say that I always have an umbrella. I hate direct sunlight, it angers me. I don't like a lot of noise, it stresses me out. I'm sensitive to scents. I'm highly attuned to the energy of places and people and I have to immediately leave chaotic environments. 

But honesty... Isn't everyone like that. I know I visibly panic more than others but too much noise makes it hard to hear my thoughts and other people. So it simply
Makes sense. 

Idgaf if i am hsp. People who know me say I come across as extremely well adjusted but I am sort of finely tuned. 


Sent from


----------



## 6007

I feel in the dumps. 
My connection to Byron is great, my friendships are great. 
My work isn't going well. 
It's making me feel insecure. 

Being successful and busy brings out the best in me. It makes me nicer and friendlier
And more generous. I don't live in a scarce world. But sometimes I'm lazy. I feel inspired to hustle when the success is happening. I keep it going. When it falters I feel sad and it knocks the wind out of my sails. 

I am taking proactive steps. And I will take more. I'm trying new things to get more connections. 

But my heart feels a bit down. It's just true. 


let's get weird


----------



## 6007

Beta males get bad press but they are what I look for. 
A good beta man is worth his weight in gold, especially if he has enough alpha to keep himself from being milquetoast. 
My byron is mid alpha mid beta with all the best of both worlds. 
Of course he isn't perfect because he's human and is quite frankly weird when we fight, but I can be a panicking turd so it evens out.


----------



## Kore

Don't you just hate it when you're charging forth after something and you're stopped dead in your tracks? Then this feeling of rage builds up to a level which is seemingly ridiculous for such a small vessel. It feels like you'll burn everything around you if you let it out but if you don't then you'll burn from the inside out.


----------



## 6007

my closest friends are:
entp, bipolar male, 6w7 phobic 
untypable aspbergers female with bipolar, possible Ni dominant, but I thought she was Ti for months (my bad)
enfp cyclothymic female 7w8
infp male, depressive 6w5 phobic
infp female, absolute sweetheart, dimples (I like her more than I even tell her, we aren't as close as we could be.)


----------



## 6007

I see some weird shit when I get into altered states, but sober. 
I was in a hot bath with candles and music and saw my soul or something. 
It had three points at my head, three points at my feet, and three points for each arm. 
it seems there are two helper points that draw from the roots and push forth focused energy. 

Then I realized my infj was sent to me because he is my exact mirror. 
He is the one to teach me to balance the physical and the spiritual and everything else, because he is more structured than I am. He is more active than I am. I love to move about but he has a schedule and I am crap at that; my boundaries are terrible there.


----------



## Laguna




----------



## Neokortex

Donovan said:


> this is odd because i don't know what to do? when i like someone it's always like this. where am i in this picture? it's like i suspend myself in favor of not trampling them... and i have no idea what to do, and i really, really, really do not only dislike that but am not used to it either. the whole thing makes me nervous and i am not able to respond in my usual way when that breath of a feeling enters mind, because i cannot just say fuck it and kick my way into this situation. it has to be more on her terms... it leaves me like a child--or feeling that at least, because usually i don't give a shit if the person likes me or not, i'll just be like, "hey, would you like to have sex after work? i'll make it worth your while little mama, _shoulder nudge_ hahahaha" (or something more brazen to that effect), and if that doesn't work i honestly couldn't care less, nor am i embarrassed, nor do i feel like i let myself down, because i don't really feel anything in that moment.
> it's when i do feel something that i want to move really slow because i know that if i'm not genuine i'll just hurt myself, and possibly that other person.


So you're trying to tone yourself down for a Social subtype? That's a hard thing. Usually when I get to exhaust myself and let out all my surplus energies, I'll get to be more of a feeler (so/sp E4) and then I'll start to attract the social people because I won't be as much intimidating as before. Now that's something of a predicament because those guys are the ones from I'd like to get the reassurance that I'm a worthy person but I also know that if I get intense again and Mr. Hyde will rear its head, I'll turn them off.


----------



## Neokortex

Thanatesque said:


> I've been reduced to a sex-obsessed teenage boy. Ever since I've been exercising more, I've been feeling incredibly insatiable. It sucks that my bf lives 10 hours away  uuuuuugggh the thirst is too real!
> 
> View attachment 495538


Gotta find a suitable fwb! xDDD May as well exercise on and develop your hunting skills with hitting up on some guys. xDD


----------



## 6007

Started reading Beatrice Chestnut's take on four and five. By the time I started reading the five description I wanted to cry. 
I definitely have a connection to four, but the five issues resonate more deeply.
what I find interesting is that I was raised with a codependent enmeshed parent, who couldn't allow me to have a separate identity. I constantly tried to assert my own boundaries and identity, but it wasn't exactly allowed, and I think I personally had bad boundaries. I could respect the boundaries of others, but would minimize my own feelings, my own needs, and stuff it all down because it wasn't ok anyway.
The issues surrounding seeing others as a fucking liability... My god yes. And feeling like being around other people chips away at my sense of self, that I get lost in the energetic demands of others, that there's not enough of me to go around, and I don't want to even be around others that much; I like books and reading and writing, but seeing how utterly transformative the process of owning and naming my feelings was and then... Making actual friends... And finding people aren't always a fucking drain and miss the point. 
Jesus fucking Christ I want to hug Beatrice Chestnut for finding words, even tho God knows I've improved in my own ability to find them.

The highlights in my text suggest I've already come to this conclusion. 
Why must I realize the same things all the time.


----------



## Donovan

Neokortex said:


> So you're trying to tone yourself down for a Social subtype? That's a hard thing. Usually when I get to exhaust myself and let out all my surplus energies, I'll get to be more of a feeler (so/sp E4) and then I'll start to attract the social people because I won't be as much intimidating as before. Now that's something of a predicament because those guys are the ones from I'd like to get the reassurance that I'm a worthy person but I also know that if I get intense again and Mr. Hyde will rear its head, I'll turn them off.


maybe. i think i'm too drunk to fully understand what you're saying at the moment. in any case, i don't care either (not about what you're getting at, just the situation)...


i get the intuition that she's sleeping with someone we work with, so i'm done and out. i no longer care. i guess i was wrong about her and the situation. 


just picking up from the actions and the unnecessary things people around me are saying, that seems to be the case. apparently i didn't "go in" enough to make it happen. if that is in fact the case, then okay, i'm honestly not interested anymore. 
if i like you, and i make it obvious of that fact, i expect some overt sign of such, and not vague "looks" or constantly inquiring about how i'm doing and hanging around me asking questions that don't make sense in terms of the situation itself that we are both in. 

eh. if you seem scared of me, i back off and try to tune in to what you're showing. she's been very much on the edge, and judging by things one of her friends have said, i didn't make it clear that i liked her (lol--i'm very clear with how i feel, i cannot help but be otherwise, whether hatred or annoyance or admiration... it's all there: if i'm hanging out with you, and being nice and sweet and trying to inquire about you in totality, whereas i'm normally curt and more or less angry/callous, and i even go dance with you and spend all nigh by your side, and ignoring all the dumb drunk girls around me, i think i'm making it pretty fucking clear that i like you). i kind of think she's one of these people who need to be "won", which i'm just not interested in. we are both equal. you can do your part, or we can just go back to ignoring each other like i do with most people i'm around. i don't think any of us is worth making some social neon, blinking fucking sign to then make it clear to everyone else that "yes, actually, i really like this person"--i'm more the "hey, we are obviously attracted to each other in some way, lets hang out and _actually_ get to know one another like normal ass human beings"... i'm not going to fucking kneel for anyone. and i don't understand the moors that people land on which make them think that they are worth that. 
i give and i take. i expect the same from anyone else. and if you can't do that, well, it wouldn't have worked to begin with so... fucking eh, right? 


what's weird though--or not actually weird, as every unformed person on the planet does this very thing--she still tries to get my attention, or still makes comments that would be tantamount to jealousy if we were further along than we are, or pays way too much attention to things that shouldn't matter if she's sleeping with someone else, +, if she didn't feel that i didn't do my _"guy's_ part in the scenario of courtship... 
if there's a table of women and they obviously seem to like me, i'll play the part and allow them to like a portion of me that i'm willing to show, in a more undiluted fashion. this works, for both me and the guests... as one table in particular was dining, i noticed (because i observe what interests me) that she (the girl in question) seemed "off", based off how she normally acts. it's almost like her face skip beat while we all flirt with each other and i "wow" them with utter, contrived bullshit. 
as they--this particular table--was walking out, they were talking about how "amazing" i was. i didn't know this, until she came up next to me and said it + "oh my god, they loved you..........", after walking past us all night and trying to make eye contact with me, slowly helping to clear the table as if she was sort of listening... 
i don't know how to describe it, but i can tell when someone is faltering in some way, or trying to glean something from a situation in a "low key" way... which i don't understand. if that was the case, then why get all freaked out every time i try to actually hang out with you? and if it's just friendship you want, oh... my... fucking... god... say that. no need to be so circumspect about the issue. and if not, there's no need to sleep with someone else... cause i got what'cha need right here (lol). 

in any case, i'm done. i'm sorry. i don't deal with rejection very well in an emotional sense. i won't ever show it to the person. we'll always be "cool". but that's not a route i'll ever go down again with said person. i rarely put myself out there, ever, so when i do and it's brushed aside because i didn't make to their standards of what "people are supposed to do", i'm hurt and over it in the sense of wanting to give them any of my focus any longer. so sorry i didn't try to fuck your brains out when you were severely drunk and seemingly innocent. i never force anything when it comes to intimate matters--everything else, i honestly don't give a fuck how someone feels because i know that i'm fair, but i also know that "intimate" things are incredibly subjective and should be dealt with in such a way, so... i try not to take advantage and am actually quite slow. 
that may seem contrary to my earlier post, but then again, everything is perception, and if you are still trying to sleep with me after believing that i'm an "asshole that everyone loves", then you set the precedence for the interaction we have 'intimately' by virtue of you seeking me out after my already having been what is seen as a bad person. you think you know what things are and have already agreed to it all--this, to me, is totally different than trying to be sweet to someone only to then do what is wrong with them in a moment (regardless of what is deemed appropriate via our social standards; re: fucking someone when they aren't themselves, and then that same person continuing to go along with it because they have already entered into the situation "willingly", and now don't want to be viewed as someone who has lost, or as someone who was taken for granted or used; in other words: they always want to be seen as someone who was agreeable, because that person was not a tool for another's amusement). 

so: okay. i'll just make her like everyone else. a person who performs a task along with me. perform it well or get out of the way.


----------



## Donovan

Laguna said:


>


do you love him?


----------



## Laguna

Donovan said:


> do you love him?


Yes.
It serves me no good purpose though.
None.


----------



## 6007

I've come to separate my life in chapters 
before divorce
after divorce 
before rape
after rape
before I moved out
after I moved out. 

My internal sense of self shifted each time, and I feel like... How do I articulate this. 
The last thing, the divorce and the ensuing depression that almost lead to Suicide several times, somehow altered everything. 
I feel internally like my story keeps getting written over? Like...my relationship to myself and my past keeps changing normally with age, and dramatically with trauma. 

While I didn't like being abused by my aunt, or being ridiculed at school by teachers and peers for years, it wasn't traumatic. Yes it annoyed me and made me dislike others, but it wasn't something shocking.

it wasn't shocking being bullied for being a lesbian in HS either. What was traumatic was being abandoned by my friends just before graduation. Something about that, being betrayed by people I trusted and loved, and having to sit next to them in class (my vision actually created spots where I couldn't see my best friend any more, like literally, not being fanciful)... I think/guess part of it was because the bullying seemed like nothing if I had loved ones, but then my best friend started ostracizing me. Like wtf? Right before prom? And part of me I made it worse because I was so upset about it, I decided to never make friends again. I went to college determined to never make a single friend and to become fabulous. I wasn't considered very bright by my peers, despite being much brighter than them all (I didn't get the best grades because I was lazy and classes weren't challenging enough) in specific ways, but to me, I didn't compare my ways and their ways, I felt there was room for everyone. I was a fucking hippie Pollyanna Jesus. I just wanted to be me and them to be them and everyone to be nice. Why was that so hard. 

My guard had been down in those friendships. I had let people in, and was found wanting. I was cast out and ridiculed. It was extremely painful, but when I try to pinpoint why, all I can think was "I thought we were friends." For me friendship meant no cruelty. It meant kindness. It meant tenderness. It meant oneness and relief. It meant acceptance. And one place I could finally be myself. In a world that felt like... It had no real place for me, because I was weird. With friends, you can be your weird self and it's quite alright. You share in weirdness or let it be. Everyone in their sandbox. Just being fucking decent. 

I liked my weirdness, sometimes it was painful to experience. It wasn't comfortable feeling like an alien and being alienated, but i had enough curiosity to note it and accept it as part of my experience and let it be "this is who I am right now," knowing the process of unfoldment was ever present. Because in my life, it's always an unfolding. I spent so much time alone as a child, reading thinking playing teaching myself things, that I could watch myself evolve. I remember noticing how different it felt to be seven from six. I remember feeling a leap forward in consciousness. I remember observing societal trends and rejecting most of them because I thought they were enslaving to women in particular. I was observing from a distance, but when experiences would pull my narrative out of my remove OMG ouch and WHY. Enough of the ouch and I really start searching for WHY. 

Im endlessly curious about what it means to be me; and very curious about how loved ones experience being. Ultimately I don't know if I'm overly attached to myself; it feels internally like not really but also yes definitely. I'm attached to my essence and enjoy the sensation of being-ness, but in human I find myself ridiculous and amusing, but I try not to judge myself too hard because observation shows me none who know more than me in every single matter. We all struggle. We all suffer. We all suck. But we are all beautiful too and kind of perfect. In our flaws. Human was designed to struggle and designed to question and designed to fail. By my design I'm perfect. 

Goddamn I am sad I'm in human only in one sense: I desperately want to be omnipotent. I want to KNOW everything. I am ravenous for knowledge and I want to know for certain how and why things are as they are. I don't want to change anything! I just want TO KNOW and BE ACCURATE.


----------



## 6007

Honestly I need a tattoo that says "accuracy please" because that is my fucking serious repetitive wish. 
I try to figure out 
RIPLEY, why accuracy?
why does that matter. 

Ripley: because nothing is accurate, nothing is certain. Even science can only be accurate in certain conditions. Nothing is known here, nothing is concrete. There is nothing that can hold you in this world. I don't want the world to be right; I have no interest in correctness and morality; I want it to be certain. I want it to be accurate. I want one thing that is always true NO MATTER WHAT... 

Other me: then what?

ripley: then I will KNOW something, anything for sure. 

Other me: and then what? What will they solve?

Ripley: then something will make sense, something will be elegant. 

Other me: so a lack of certainty is inelegant?

ripley: it's messy and chaotic and ugly and it annoys me. 

Mhm

and if something is true it is elegant and beautiful and irrefutable even if it is a hard and difficult truth it will be absolute, I couldn't argue with it, because it is a fact and I would like to crush myself upon a hard truth. It is better than all of this soft malleable maybe that I hate. 

The end


----------



## 6007

But then I suspect I would smash the truth in the face with my fist because I bet... I would want to defy it. Just for trying to push me around. lol. 

I am fucking retarded. Snort. 

I am whining about shit being right and I bet myself anything I would just be angry anyway even if I got my wish. I'd be like BUT WHY RON WHYYYYYYY?! 

Though it is hard to say because I'm guessing based on what I know about little lady ridiculous (my new name for myself in human because that shit is funny as fuck, Little Lady Ludicrous is even better... GDI my brain is fun) so little lady ludicrous wants the absolute truth and then what... She will lament and get angry at it for being a fact that can't be changed. 

I don't like being painted into a corner. I don't like losing control. My stress response? Flight. Sometimes it's fight/fawning, but overall, it is to leave to run to get away to cast out the other. Flight/fight. Fight/flight. That is what I have done. Byron has made all of that visible; years of my bullshit parade rendered in technicolor, there's a truth for you lady put that shit in your pipe and smoke it. 

little lady ludicrous. I like that. It's playful and derisive and self dismissive but I won't use it cruelly because I like me even tho I am full of faggotry.


----------



## 6007

I feel extremely scattered today, like I'm being ejected from my skull. Or there's a lot of noise, but nothing unpleasant! I feel happy but jittery and high, I only had a little caffeine, but it feels like I'm processing so much information that I can't focus, as if perhaps everything is coming together loudly in my skull.

So I will do concrete things, actions that show progress. Work. Cleaning. And fucking trust that because MY BRAIN IS ON FIRE. and someone I don't know well reposted my status discussing relationsips and healing and omg that's the second one in seven days, people are starting to listen to me and it makes me feel out of control and weird. I know I have legitimate views that can help others but I'm not used to people LISTENING


----------



## Neokortex

Donovan said:


> maybe. i think i'm too drunk to fully understand what you're saying at the moment. in any case, i don't care either (not about what you're getting at, just the situation)...


Well, either way, I hope you'll find that significant someone one day who will take your time from writing these long winded ruminations... DD


----------



## 6007

Today I started reading the power of habit because I'm aware my habits fucking suck and I should fix them but being a fucking turd burgler I need to read a fucking book about it but whatever. I will read the book and see if it can help me find an actionable plan to fix my shit. I already feel like the habit I've introduced of reading or audio books, one per week, is adding to my life. I'm making art and learning a priority in an almost structured way and it is helping me fix my life.


----------



## 6007

I have a cold and I felt bad so I ate an edible. 
Now I feel normal. Not high. 
I hope it helps my cold go away. 
I want to get shit done. 

This habit book is lighting my ass on fire.


----------



## 6007

Sexual Fives seek something like the ultimate mystical union—an experience of the divine in human relationship. And this can also happen with the search for good friends or a spiritual teacher. While Social and Self-Preservation Fives are more removed from their emotions, the Sexual Five is intense, romantic, and more emotionally sensitive. This Five suffers more, resembles the Four more, and has more overt desires. This is the countertype among the Fives. It may not be completely obvious from the outside, however—they may seem very much like other Fives until you touch their romantic spot and inspire their romantic feelings.

100% lollercoaster


----------



## Donovan

Laguna said:


> Yes.
> It serves me no good purpose though.
> None.


i'm sorry... i really am. that must hurt.




Neokortex said:


> Well, either way, I hope you'll find that significant someone one day who will take your time from writing these long winded ruminations... DD


ha, i'm not so much concerned with "finding a significant other" as much as i am connecting with and getting to know the people who stand out to me... in any case, she's much too sweet to ever withhold anything from. too cute of a person (sober now--less turbulent, more my own emotional age ).


----------



## 6007

Apparently I'm taking on guru status in my community, and this makes me feel extremely uncomfortable, yet this is exactly what I've attempted to DO. there are tiny ego/pride twitches of wanting to be recognized for knowing something, they are small but they exist in me. However right next to it are a few other emotions: 
1. Don't follow my truth, my job is to point you to your truth
2. What if I'm wrong, please make sure you question everyone even me. 
3. What if I'm wrong and what I say hurts someone, I must make sure I always use disclaimers. 
4. People are listening to me and now I'm annoyed because I'm not responsible for them. Solve your own problems. 
Hahahahahaaaaaa. 
There is also quite a bit of fear, it's sort of generalized but seems to center or find its root in nothing good ever happened to me as a result of attention. 
I was always taller than my peers. And while naturally very quirky (Luna Lovegood comes to mind), I was actually pretty if someone looked closely enough. And I was smart. Or gave off that intellectual vibe that made people over estimate my intelligence before I ever opened my mouth. (Being brunette and tall is an advantage psychologically, and I have leveraged it to my benefit but it took me fucking forever to recognize it.) I was essentially never going to blend in, despite thinking no one should see me. I would get attention and immediately feel intruded upon. The root is childhood. I was constantly ridiculed from a young age and at a few schools. By teachers and by peers. Nothing good came from the level of attention I got, seemingly for no reason. I wasn't ugly, though I was called ugly. I wasn't abnormally anything. I was just there. And I was weird. And I never conformed to avoid attention, I honestly expected everyone to just leave me alone. Socially, I am charming but also, frankly, I am clearly retarded. I continue to "do me" and expect the world to conform to MY standards. And surprisingly... It has. 
in the right context, I actually fit in very well and all the shit that made me weird as a kid, the obsession with old fashioned clothing and movies and books and being fucking into self help books and metaphysics and creative visualization actually works on an adult. It fucking works with the right people. 
As a kid I was called a sage or the wise one. But it is scary as shit having people ask my advice or quote me to others or demand I write a book. Dude I have nothing new to say but people want to listen. It's flattering and terrifying. And I honestly think being famous or celebrated must be the most horrible thing ever because that level of intrusion and influence seems... Like death. 
I liked my business because success grew gradually. My reputation in my community is growing gradually. But being considered special or smart is not something I enjoy. Pretty much at all.


----------



## 6007

I met a friend of angel's. 
He reminds me very much of my infp EEYORE crush, and is probably infp because God knows I never met one I didn't want to fuck. I digress. 
This guy is balding, brunet, stout, and something about his eyes has all that warm limpid magic my EEYORE has. EEYORE has these insanely pillowy porn lips, and when I saw this fake EEYORE last I realized he has thin lips and a snarky sideways smile like Jareth the ENTJ. 
So the first time we met I felt attracted to him against my will. And it was annoying and I felt guilty because I'm in love with the most perfect man for me and crushes simply won't do in my idealized mind set. his date joined us and I reminded myself not to talk to him too much or take up too much space lest she feel I was making moves. 
He ended up raving about me to angel. Like completely star struck. 
I got in a big fight with Byron and went to the bookstore one week after meeting this man, and one week after angel gave me his number at his request. I made a mental note to never ever call. 
During our first meeting I had purchased a toy which got damaged by his date. 
At the bookstore I saw a similar one, which I bought, and thoughtless cunt that I am, I sent him a picture of it. When he responded and asked me out, I immediately felt regret and shame. I was ashamed of being careless with the feelings of another human, and mad at myself for being impulsive. And I felt disloyal to Byron and also malicious. 
I have NEVER gotten vengeance on a partner before but Byron inspires some serious full retard malice at levels I don't recognize and would swear aren't part of my makeup. Digression. 
I saw this man, fake EEYORE again spontaneously last weekend. I got a bit drunk and made fun of his jacket, which I felt terrible about the next day. (It was ugly and sometimes I get annoyed at people for making me like them and I am a childish jerk.)
i said I was very sorry for what I said and that I owed him a drink and I complimented him on his manners and said I had none but that I would endeavor to improve in the future. And also that I tease people I like and I would work on that too. 
He responded with the most outlandish praise that it read as trolling. 
Whatever attraction I felt has been shot right in the face and I'm totally free. 

It is weird how given a long enough timeline you will realize how wrong everyone else is for you. EEYORE, who I truly wanted to date and support and be kind to, never felt up to the task and now that Byron is here I can see how lucky I am. Fake EEYORE... Just goes to show my instincts are often wrong. They really are. Squeeze was the same way. When a dude takes a while to grow on me, I usually am more compatible. But these goddamn infp make me want to jump their shit and fall in love before I stop myself. 

Gdi.


----------



## Neokortex

Donovan said:


> ha, i'm not so much concerned with "finding a significant other" as much as i am connecting with and getting to know the people who stand out to me... in any case, she's much too sweet to ever withhold anything from. too cute of a person (sober now--less turbulent, more my own emotional age ).


So I read a bit more of it. I think I had something similar. That thing when you thought you were past that short phase with a girl and then she keeps coming back. You sorta keep eliciting her interest. Urgh, can only repeat myself: that's a tough thing, probably the best is just to remove yourself from her. Since this is the Sx thread and I also assumed you were an Sx-dom, the way I felt I was able to connect with what you wrote is the hardship of trying to communicate with Sx blindspots, which your girl seems to be from what you wrote. And what I can infer from how you present the whole story is that you're not that much willing to lay your emotions down the table. That's your private sphere. But you're more willing to get closer to someone in a more physical and intellectual way - the directness of which seemingly turns her off. But when you're charming around the other women, the social status you earn with them is something that sparks her interest, as if she expected you to connect with her through the social sphere (keeping it all light and easy, nothing too intimate). So the problem seems to be that the part you're interested in her, her type of emotions, her innocence, is expressed through the social sphere, but your innocence you'd like to share with her is expressed through shrouded piercing wildness.


----------



## Gorgon

Sometimes all I want to do is bathe in the blood in the people I hate. It's easy for me to hate, and I feel no guilt for it. I hate as I love, with an angry fervor. I hate because I'm angry. I hate because I'm envious. I hate because of my principles. I hate because I care. Regardless, it's a call to action, though not usually positive. At my angriest and most hateful, I was sniveling dog ready to maul anything and anyone and I fucking loved it. Enough with propriety, sometimes I revel in the violence. I also love exposing my festering wounds especially if they end up being a reflection of other people's scars and demons. It's like im challenging them to endure my ugliness. Look me straight in the eye, tear me apart, come on and take your fill! I stand here naked forcing you to tear down the layers you've constructed.


----------



## Donovan

Neokortex, you have a very interesting point of view actually--and damn you, , for describing my own self/emotions/situation better than i was doing, hahaha... i'll address your post later, as i don't want to think about all that right now... (liking a person--actually liking a person--is really kind of painful)


so, i'll just speak about what's on my mind currently. passings and the import being on what it tells me if anything. feel free to read, feel free to skip over (everyone). again, this is largely for myself. i don't speak about these things in real life, and writing it gets things going for me, even if it's just spewed nonsense that has a subjective point later on down the road:


(old, too-long-told stories, but the water is almost shaken out of my ears completely)


been working nonstop, gonna save up for the chance that i can't work for four months next year... tired. my manager wouldn't give me a shift tomorrow and no one would trade (lol). he said i was too "grumpy". 
so, i go and get lunch, have some beers on break. meet up with a person i work with... after work, pretty much the same (the day's already wasted, might as enjoy what is left). 

i see that person, that i try to not see. i do my usual. rather not approach it in the way i would another situation that doesn't appeal to me, it'd just make me feel worse, so i pretend to not see her. she comes up and says "hi". there's aggression behind it at this point, a _"hey!"_, with wide, long-staring eyes. i nod and go back to talking to the people that i've been talking to. her and her new girlfriend stand there in the middle of our conversation, so i make a show of leaning right and left to better hear the people speaking. 

they move off and sit a few seats down. people from work walk by, a "straight" (?) girl and a flamboyantly gay guy who are best friends, and if fate were kinder they would have aligned, as they are known as husband and wife at our places of work. i mention how they are cutest gay couple i've ever seen, and this person, the one i've been speaking about turns and beams at me. i know i've given the wrong impression so i yawn and look at the ceiling and then look back at the road--the way you would if you met eyes with a stranger. 

... she looks crestfallen and that hurts, man... it honestly does. i've never really had friends--this hasn't ever bothered me, and i'm not just saying that. being alone is almost exhilarating sometimes, especially when compared to what i could be surrounded with, and especially compared to that contrast of actually meeting people that i vibe with... but it's almost kind of sad to feel the contrast of having a person you considered a really good friend, and then not having it all. 
and it's not even sad for me really. i'm fine. i feel sad for her though. i know that hurts her, and i know that she's more reliant in that way than i am. i know that she needs that sort of connection and that it hurts her... 

she got up and walked away without trying to saying bye for the first time. i think that's best. i still love her. as a person. i hope that she's so very happy. really i just want to hug her, to crush that tiny little body and growl in her ear, shake her around and just make her feel loved; make her feel good...
to feel how good that would make her feel, but for whatever reason, i just can't. or i won't. 
honestly though, at this point i really don't know what would be in anything for any of us. going back to how things were would feel like crawling back. being pushed away (not her fault, i know this, but...) and then saying that it's okay, that i don't care, and just being there: i don't know how to do that. it's like a conversation i had with a girlfriend from years ago, about meeting a wall, about knowing that there is something on the other side but not being able to breach it even though a feverish part of your mind is about to cry and and be elated at the very same time... and instead you just meet that ever-present fucking goddamn piece of shit wall... and you almost want to cry, but if you do then you know you'll be stuck right in front of it. you'll just be waiting in front of something that will never give to you, stuck in some weird uncomfortable spot where nothing looks like it should, where you don't feel like you should... 

so, she left. more people showed up. i spoke to a person that i haven't spoken to in years, and she showed me a picture of us all hanging out one night, in someone's dorm. i looked nice. happy maybe? laying my head on someone's shoulder (most likely drunk), all of us laying on someone's bed... lol, it was so heartwarming. it was sweet, in a very good way. 

i convinced someone to let me give them a ride home so he didn't have to walk (not far, but i mean if i'm going in the same direction why not?). he said that i was his favorite person at work--i was just like, "... awe...", and kept driving hahaha--i don't know what to say or why that freezes me up so much. i do love this person in a way though. naturally a sweet person, but shows iron when he's stressed or others are picking on him. about a decade older too, which just makes his nice disposition seem that much nicer for some reason... 

we all made drunk plans to go, drunkenly, to the zoo tomorrow with random people we met that night. i scanned my memory to see who was off, and that 3 (if anyone remembers, vaguely mentioned at some point) agreed. she's like glue for groups, all over the place and magnetic... i want to see the gorilla that's terrified of humans because it breaks my heart. he's so damn big and powerful and yet as soon as he notices that you can seem him, his eyes widen and he runs and hides... maybe we'll get really drunk and set him free. he'd likely die, but he'd better off i think. he must hate his life... that poor thing. 

but it kind of hit me today, and i guess this is the reason for my post: i've never really had friends. i've had people that i've hung out with, who i've helped, who i've help to protect or bolster emotionally, but they aren't really friends if you don't allow that same back and forth that you give to them. i don't even know how to do that... 
i had to train--scratch that--i forced everyone else to let me train our newest person. this giant red-headed beast of a person who has the personality of a giggling child (lol...). 
i love this guy. he's so happy and i just don't get it. he's innocent too, so very innocent (the way he was brought up, from what i can see--i don't know many people who lived in the country, who weren't allowed to watch tv on the weekdays, who play rugby, and are also infatuated with anime... lol, he's odd, but he's a good one). always quick to take the blame for something that is someone else's fault, always quick to laugh and to try and bring other people up; boyish, but not in a bad way. 

but the picture that other people at work told is what has got me thinking. a girl came up and was like, "aweee... Donovan... i think you just made a friend" and she was beaming. i asked what she meant and she said we looked like to stupid dogs who were like "oh my god, do see _this_? okay cool, but what about _this!_? wow--_that_?" *pant, pant*. 
it's take me a year but i've finally gotten to a spot where i'm given pretty much free reign, where i'm not fucked with, and in combination with being able to finagle a situation later if i need to (which i will). a lot of that has happened by actually being able to be depended on, by doing all the things needed for things to work in a larger way (aside from just me making my money at work), and in the process i'm actually making friends in the way of allowing myself to benefit from said connection. 

this also makes me feel like an idiot... i don't know why, but it does. and that makes me feel like crying, and i don't know why and it doesn't make sense, but... _ugh_, fuck! 
these kind of thoughts are the quickest thing to just make me hateful. it's almost like an orgasm in a way (bear with me). 
when you're on the brink of something and there's pressure of a kind, a sliding between two points, and you're reaction is just to arch and jerk your body or shake your head, to clench your teeth and force your throat out in something guttural... i think it's because i'm trying to get myself to slide in one direction and not the other, but even with that, i have no idea. no one else can say it for me or witness it for me, to let me know what it is... and goddamn it makes me even angrier, the thought of crying and then stopping it. but then it stops and i'm left thinking about what that feeling actually was, even brief seconds before it dissipates. 

it's like constantly turning a corner to see the same picture, to turn around and around and to see nothing different ever... oh my god i want to crush this laptop. it's the only thing that gets me thinking in a such a way, the only conduit to an outlet like this. i honestly wouldn't even get the chance to do and say all of this if i didn't have this very simple thing... good and bad in a way i think.


----------



## 6007

It wasn't terrible talking to unknown people in that other thread but I did find it annoying. 
I did enjoy the suggestion that I am different in different threads because I totally am and I've noticed it before. But it's mostly because in the dustier corners of perc, such as the enneagram five board, I could simply talk to myself and not worry about intrusion. When I first started writing there it was a challenge to me; I was so afraid to be open. So I kept trying and when people didn't put me on the spot or bother me, I got this sense of freedoms to just be myself somewhere. 
My god, it was liberating. 
I was able more and more to show up in my real life because once you start fucking with transparency, it spills all over the place. 
I love the istp board because they are funny and weird and I feel very much at home with their minds... Which is frankly odd and I'm still surprised by that. But they are chatty and have low bandwidth for extreme navel gazing and in a way... I don't want to share there. I can't be as alone and that doesn't feel as free. 
There really is something nice about posting here or the five board because I get to be with people but I don't have to socialize with them. And I can read their thoughts and like them from a nice comfortable distance. 

I wonder what it would be like to be not-me for a while. 
Sometimes I observe my extraveted friends and while it looks like a horrible fate to be an extravert (gods those people love doing things; Byron likes me because I lie around a lot, being manly) I think it would be so fun to experience a different way of being. 

Ive been experimenting with my habits lately; I'm back to using my energy to experiment on myself... My life is sort of an experiment. 
I sometimes wonder if I'm too enmeshed with myself and maybe I need more distance. 
For as long as I can remember I always felt like two people. 
I used to joke I was a twin and to be honest in my secretest heart I was always looking for my twin. I used to take pictures of myself as a twin (that mirror effect) and I always thought that was better than just me. 
My best friends are twins and they adopted me. So I'm a sort of triplet. 
But it's not the same as wanting a real sister. 

I wonder sometimes how my life would have been if I'd have remained in _____. My mom, a teen parent, left my dad because he was controlling and abusive. my mom left him when I was a year old, and got married a year after that. Her first marriage was to someone she loved a lot. But he was jealous of my dad. (Who can say why; dude is ugly and my mom didn't love him.) my mom's marriage disintegrated, and out of pride she didn't fight to keep it going. I think he literally said "I want a divorce" and she said "fine." And that was that. 

She fell deeply in love with someone maybe a year after that. So by this time I'm like Five. They dated for a while and my mom was offered a job as a driver for a company out of state. She was considering taking it. She told her lover. He didn't ask her to stay. So we left. I never saw my dad again, but then again... I hadn't seen him since I was four or so. Maybe three? 

My dad has a big family. I grew up with just my mom. Occasionally her bohemian family members would come stay with us and then leave, so I had zero idea of how to be in a family sense. 

I wonder who I would have been, in that alternate timeline. With cousins and grandmas and aunts and uncles. Knowing people. I liked my childhood. I spent a lot of time alone, doing stupid shit like roller skating for hours or teaching myself to sew for my dolls. And there were books. My collection of books. Jesus Christ do I love books. Input is one of my strengths on strengths finder and I think collections are a thing for that strength. I gave away over a hundred and I have hundreds left. 

Blah blah blah 

time to experiment upon myself some more. I am now officially bored of being in my head and would like to get in the world of my house.


----------



## 6007

Byron sleeping quietly with his back glued to my arm. 
Jesus it's the most heart meltingly gorgeous experience.


----------



## 6007

Ok so. In my stengthsquest, my strengths are
input ideation adaptibility learner and activator

What is freaking me the fuck out in a good way is
EVERYTHING IS COMING TOGETHER.

There is a fucking reason people are turning to me for advice. While I don't have all the answers, I have a talent for pointing people in the right direction and turning an event or an idea until I find a leverage point or something new. Unsticking energy.

Keywords in my personal paradigm include: boundaries. emotional availability. habits. awareness. energy.

These things are incontrovertible human needs; we may not acknowledge them regularly but they are facts and must be understood by all.

what I was considering lately is what we call 'beautiful' is really just energy in balance.


----------



## 6007

Had all these intentions for my day and I accidentally got a contact high because Byron smoked weed with a friend.gdi. 
So now I want to make lists of all the things I want to achieve. 
I rarely ever make lists. 
I sort of determine a goal and head slouchily in that direction. Lists and charts and shit aren't my thing. 
But I recently made a list and it was helpful. 
I think perhaps they are quite important. I mean. Everyone says so. Unless you write some shit down it's just a wish. 
So I need to stop my fuckery and get my shit in hand. My messy house bugs me. 
My lack of structure bugs me. 
I'm super slouchy and mellow, lazy. I go after what I want but I don't really want much. I like, think most goals look like "you doing too much." Like why you need to live so hard bitch chill out. Hahahaaaa and there are people who would hear that and be like 
WUT BITCH
but I am chill. I want to enjoy the quiet still slow times. The spaces between. That's my shit. 
I don't want to be lost in a bunch of noise and movement. I like to wait and choose what I will do. 
but I force myself to balance it by taking classes and moving towards my values. Reading. Church. Painting. Writing. Building connections. Helping my friends with their problems.


----------



## Vermillion

Don't react. Live in the moment. Be positive. For the love of god, shut your mind off.

Don't dare think about how your impatience may have made you lose a once-in-a-lifetime chance. 

sigh.


----------



## 6007

Last night didn't go as I'd planned. Or intended. 
For starters I accidentally got high in the afternoon (second hand smoke) and then later in the evening I felt more introverted yet inclined to plan for the future. 
I had a tiny cry as I was falling asleep because well my entire plan for the last year has been "survive."
my anniversary of divorce is coming up and I am really surprised about my personal growth. I shouldn't be because I'm older at this point but the last truly traumatic experience I had was when I was 20, well just before my 21st bday. 
and divorce trauma really depends on the stories you tell yourself. 
Digression. 
Last year I was drawn to squeeze at a space beyond words; indeed from the deepest part of myself: my silence. 
For much of my life I've felt mute, despite being talkative; well despite being able to talk about things I like. Despite studying dictionaries to learn how to use words properly. Despite all the effort I expended learning how to write, and analyzing my feelings and thoughts. 
But I was hopelessly unaware of my passion for silence. Which paradoxically I also seem to work against. 
I mean if you're quiet you want to make the most of your speech. You want to make it count. 
You want it to fucking pierce flesh. Melt faces. Stop time. 
but maybe unconsciously. 
Digress digress digress
squeeze was wrapped in a deep stillness, a deep silence. He wasn't aware of it until I pointed it out. 
I was drawn to that silence and that stillness, I wanted to sink and drown and disappear into it. 
But what I didn't realize is... It mirrors my own. It mirrors my values. 
I was the woman who wanted to take a vow of silence for a year and everyone thought it was crazy, but the idea sounded so luxurious, elegant, sensual, even seductive. Dead robot was having none. 
Last night as I was crying I realized I should carve silence into my daily rituals. 
Stillness I have. 
True silence I have not. 
This morning I meditated for ten minutes. 
I fancied I was floating in a vast pool of deep greenish water, lit from the bottom? It was glowing like a regular pool but... It wasn't. And it was in a cave but the cave was a skull. I was in the mind of the universe. 
Last time I meditated I saw my own soul as a giant body with 12 points. 
It was sort of like that, except the universe was a giant body and I was floating in its skull. 
Then I had a few new ideas of things I could create. And I woke up again.


----------



## Laguna

You can't take back a sacred part of yourself that you freely gave to someone. What's done cannot be undone. Even if they crushed it in their hands and laugh at you now. Mock you. You can't change the past or how others treat what was sacred to you. You can only learn from it and try to forgive yourself.


----------



## infinity paradox

*yet another random rant.*

Sp/sx ... Control every impulse that may be harmful. Why do I keep tracing my fingers over the ice, hoping for it to crack but with the dread that everything under the surface is dead? Renewal is the dream, realizing that I've only been hibernating. Why is this so triggering? You can't just let everything go and extend warmth right through everything, at least not right away...failure is imminent. If I want to succeed I need to make the right cuts so I can bleed write. dammit, fuck, shit...I can overcome all the passion and scars of the past, soothe them all and spin this projection out...true conquering is done in the real world. I already know I'm different and this time is different but if I want to realize and not just feel I need to smash the boundaries of all these (walled off) "realities." 

The trust issues are real. I can give you the benefit of the doubt and not test you in a way that hurts your feelings or your ego, but at the same time, consistent behavior is needed. Reassurance is nice, but I don't require it constantly and I also realize that it is unreasonable and potentially straining to ask for from another. Consistent behavior, and the *true sight* that we are not limiting our passions, but not taking advantage of anything that comes by, we are simply letting our passions smash together like the two tidal waves they are and have always been, running their natural course, rising and falling again and again as one sea.


----------



## Superfluous

2 sessions of hypnotherapy every week for 5 weeks. I'm one week in my SO as well as I have noticed key differences in me. I could rag on and on about how I'm feeling great but I think we are bored of those posts about now. Which is ironic because there wouldn't be a more appropriate time for my usual over the top post about my changed ways and happiness. But yeah, I'm doing good. I wouldn't have considered me a really unhealthy seven, however if it was 'black or white way of thinking', then yes I was unhealthy. Now I'm calm, assured, my shift of perspective is apparent, and I have an increased awareness of my choice of responses. I'm getting closer to the purer me I used to know as a kid, and here I see my typing has changed. * I wouldn't have thought "I'm unhealthy but eh not _THAT_ unhealthy" could have such an impact on typing but yet here I am, sold. You shouldn't be typing yourself until you're at your most refined state of mind.

*MBTI, not so much enneagram. Hypnotherapist agrees I'm clearly a 7, although my instinctual variants may be different than what I thought originally.


----------



## Animal

Superfluous said:


> Hypnotherapist agrees I'm clearly a 7


I think the deities had a meeting when they imparted enneagram upon humans and said "When Robert Plant grows old and boring, let @Superfluous be born to unleash upon the Earth a shining example of the essence of 7ness; lest it might otherwise be forgotten."


----------



## Superfluous

Animal said:


> I think the deities had a meeting when they imparted enneagram upon humans and said "When Robert Plant grows old and boring, let @Superfluous be born to unleash upon the Earth a shining example of the essence of 7ness; lest it might otherwise be forgotten."


Ay remind me prophet, this is to be written in stone.


----------



## Little_Bird

Big Daddy Kane said:


> Fi is so icky. I have no idea how to deal with it. You have to walk on eggshells because you can't predict if what you're about to say is going to irritate the Fi using individual's Fi. And when that happens, I'm left (metaphorically) holding my dick wondering what the fuck I did wrong. And I just bail. So when I know someone likes to use Fi, I have to be careful around them to avoid upsetting them.
> 
> I don't like that, having to self-censor. I don't like that me expressing myself honestly and genuinely is construed by somebody else as a personal attack against them directly, because it just isn't. You ought to learn to separate the ideas you value from yourself as a person!
> 
> I'm also pretty sure I'm Sx and I'm definitely sure that I use Fe way more than Fi.


That's so strange. Must be unhealthy fi users, because fi can also be used to be very empathetic, and understand other sides of a coin, even if they go against personal principles. It's about crawling into someone's skin and looking through their eyes. Unhealthy fi is very judgemental, self righteous and lazy. 

I wouldn't attack you if you're expressing a view contradictory to mine when it comes to idk, immigration, economy, marriage, etc. I would get offended if you tried to force me to conform to your views. 

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk


----------



## 6007

Apparently my grandmother doesn't approve of my becoming ordained in my particular church. It's not Christian enough. 
She's getting weird in her old age. She used to be more open minded. 
I feel really disappointed.


----------



## Vahyavishdapaya

Little_Bird said:


> That's so strange. Must be unhealthy fi users, because fi can also be used to be very empathetic, and understand other sides of a coin, even if they go against personal principles. It's about crawling into someone's skin and looking through their eyes. Unhealthy fi is very judgemental, self righteous and lazy.
> 
> I wouldn't attack you if you're expressing a view contradictory to mine when it comes to idk, immigration, economy, marriage, etc. I would get offended if you tried to force me to conform to your views.
> 
> Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk


Perhaps it is unhealthy Fi users. I certainly don't mean to offend Fi users! Come to think of it one of my closest friends is probably an ESFP and he's actually really really empathetic and stuff; I get on great with him. I can't figure out what MBTI type he would be because he seems like an Fe user, so he could be an ESFJ, but there's no way he's an Si user, he's way too much of a troublemaker and a rebel, he must be an Se user - therefore that means he must also use Fi.


----------



## 6007

Apparently my very first best friend has a lover she calls "Diablo."


----------



## 6007

I haven't told anyone this. But it feels important. 
Last year I had a couple lovers. 
I loved every single one. 
The exception being the ENTJ who I loved as a friend but his fetish sort of shut down my romantic heart. Alas. 
anyway...
i see a lot of my peers investing energy in men or women who don't love them back. 
I was never truly loved back except by Byron. Part of it was the age difference, as I was older than everyone by varying amounts, and partially because I just wasn't the right one for anyone. There's nothing personal in that. My affection and love was genuine, but I wasn't the right one. Epic fuck maybe, which I'm considering debatable at this time, because now that I've had sex with Byron I'm like... Dude I wasn't half of what I became. But God knows I gave from a place of love and true desire and I was appreciated for it, at least. It wasn't the mind blowing love of a century, which in my heart of hearts I wanted to give. I was open to love with my soul but... That must be returned to be experienced. 
Instead of wasting time on people who didn't reflect my love, I abandoned them the second it was obvious. When it became clear a person wasn't going to return what I was offering, either by word or deed, I forced myself (painfully in some instances) to move on. Squeeze I cried over every single day for two months; Diablo I still haven't totally gotten over. I still want somehow somewhere for us to have been connected. But it doesn't always go the way my greedy heart wants. and when I had Diablo and Byron in the same space (more than once!) I was always like "Diablo who?" Except that one time we danced together, which was lovely. But he just isn't "mine" and I'm not "his" and that shit can't be forced. 
I could have chosen to remain ensnared in the unrequited morass of love for Diablo. I could have chased a wish as I did in my marriage. But I took him at his various words and actions and followed my gut. I miss him. Maybe I will for a long time. I'm just going to allow it. 
But I'm also going to be present for the first truly reciprocated love of my life. The person with whom I can actually breathe. 
It feels significant somehow. 
And really good.


----------



## 6007

I was talking to angel yesterday about how my passion for others is sometimes a reflection of their passion for me. 
Last fall I saw infp eeyore and was pummeled with this cord of energy from him to me. I felt staggered. I wanted to kiss him, and wrap myself around him. Then I felt intensely guilty because my relationship with Byron was like five minutes long. 
I spoke to eeyore about it and he said he'd felt intensely pulled to me, an electricity when we hugged and I can't help but wonder if what I felt was energy he threw at me. 
Because ive felt him at a distance. 
Like from states away. 
Some people I cord to. I can intuit their emotions without speaking. No idea how nor why and most of the time I check my intuitions are right. 
i am attuned to and see energy the way others see people standing in front of them; it's just fucking obvious to me. I'm not psychic, I don't know WHY people look depleted or WHY a room feels tense, I just know when it happens. I can't believe how many other people can't do it. Like, hello, oblivious. Earth to you. 
but this is different and beyond my personal intelligence. My feelings, i.e., bodily sensations, seem to intuitively respond to what others are feeling. And if they want to fuck me, apparently it makes me want sex too. I mean, depending on the person. 
So it makes me wonder... How much of my emotion is mine. How much is actually energetic reciprocity and bodily cues?


----------



## 6007

On some small level, I enjoy negative emotions. 
Its like I amplify them or take a perverse pleasure in experiencing them because pain feels more comfortable and controllable than joy. Joy feels unwieldy, scary, and aggravating. 
When I look backward what becomes obvious isn't that I numbed out emotion as a kid and teen but that I didn't have any. I had regular emotions, I was actually quite joyous at times, enraptured, enthusiastic, passionate, albeit quietly and privately. But I didn't feel all the things others felt. Life just didn't seem like a big deal, just a normal experience. And reading Wayne dyer that young had an impact. I was like "I can use my mind! For everything!"
it took heartbreak to feel. And the heartbreaks kept coming. I couldn't stop the emotions, I just allowed them and after a while they felt better than nothing. 
This divorce thing makes me feel stuff again too. I was in varying stages of numbness from 2007-2014.


----------



## 6007

Instead of facing my shit head on sometimes I numb myself in learning. I spend hours listening to audiobooks. Which in turn inspires me to make connections and plans and makes me more engaged with the world but... I still avoid things by reading exciting things. 
Or I talk to friends all day. 
I don't always avoid myself or my fears but I notice that sometimes I do, and this is how it manifests: talking to people, learning, staring at the ceiling. 

then I get back to work but these things happen. 
Lately I even get stoned and learn more. Or clean. 

Yet... Strangely I feel happier and more effective, but still not utterly healthy yet. I still have patterns that need work. 
I can improve my self responsibility much more. 
I would like that very very much.


----------



## Little_Bird

Big Daddy Kane said:


> Perhaps it is unhealthy Fi users. I certainly don't mean to offend Fi users! Come to think of it one of my closest friends is probably an ESFP and he's actually really really empathetic and stuff; I get on great with him. I can't figure out what MBTI type he would be because he seems like an Fe user, so he could be an ESFJ, but there's no way he's an Si user, he's way too much of a troublemaker and a rebel, he must be an Se user - therefore that means he must also use Fi.


Mah, I wasn't offended! 😄 I was just really taken aback / surprised. I know what unhealthy fi looks like because I've seen it firsthand (ESFJ mom that suffers from depression) plus seeing myself take an ugly turn when I went through extreme stress and depression. What you described practically defined my mom's reaction to things that are nothing to get offended over, and my personal reaction over stupid things that I later on reflected on thinking, WTF is wrong with me? Why did I say that? 

Fi has I think has the form of a gentle creature or a terrifying monster. There is no in between apparently, and if there is, there definitely isn't with a dominant sx user  

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk


----------



## Donovan

i woke this morning to thunder: vibrating walls and slate grey. beautiful in a giddiness-inducing kind of way; to see how powerful nature is, to be in the eye of its throes. 
i put on my shoes and took my dog for a walk. leaves are trying to come in, budding, long-hanging, and being thrown about... what drew me off my path was a vine. it wrapped itself around everything. dripped itself into these pockets of blue leaves, heavy and full and vibrant. a smell no amount of man-made toxic anything could rival. 
i just stood there and stared. even Loki laid himself down, crossed his paws, and waited for us to continue (which is not his modus operandi). something about seeing it seemed "right" or "good". i'm sure i looked crazy, walking away smiling, turning to look back over my shoulder... 



two things, that lead to a point of sorts, a different perspective: 


i ruined my ex's birthday party. held at a bar, and being the person that she is, she literally has twenty people there trying to buy her a shot and get into all the merry-making. i knew i wouldn't know anyone, and i knew me + alcohol + her current boyfriend wouldn't be the best mix, but i went because i also knew that it'd hurt her if i didn't show up... she has this belief that people turn their backs on her, and i don't want to be that person who confirms it. 
i don't respect him, nor--and immediately--anyone else there. he would sleep around on her, and when he found out that she did the same, he went ballistic and attacked her. was throwing her around so hard that he actually tore her bra, choked her as well... but she loves him and they are apparently "doing well", and i care about her feelings so i went. 
she's fairly drunk when i get there and is clamoring for a birthday shot. we both get more and more inebriated and act how we always have: like we are best friends. hugging and laughing, not paying attention to anyone else. pretty soon random people are coming up to investigate, asking how long we've known each other and how we knew one another (i just said we've always been friends, no need to instigate). 
i let her set the tone of our hangout because 1) it's her day, and 2) i don't know, maybe she also acts this way in front of them with other people and it'll be fine (?). once people keep coming and getting inbetween us, and after her boyfriend introduces himself and buys me a shot (thanks guy), she decides that we should go outside. we hangout and people keep pestering us and at this point, to questions like, "why are you acting this way" directed at her, i just start in with "look person, because she fucking wants to and it's her birthday, alright?" and the like... 
all i can think about is how close i am to this guy when he comes to our table to tag along, and how weak of a person he is. so i put my arm around her and pull her to kiss her forehead, and tell her that i love her. she reaches out and holds my hand. once that's situated, i try to make small talk with him. i just want him to eat this situation, and if he doesn't want to i'll put my hands over his mouth until he's forced to swallow it.
she gets dragged away by some of her friends but keeps trying to come back over to me, so i wait and watch. eventually i walk over, and they (hahaha) all kind of crowd around me. i give her a big hug and tell her that i have to leave, and that i think her friends don't like me very much. the guy turns around is like, "finally getting the picture huh?!" (hahahahaha!), i say something i'm not even sure, like, "hey, fuck you babe", and then some girl brushed against my cigarette and calls fowl and i explain to her that burning things are hot and that she shouldn't drink so much, and i'm trying to leave and walk away but my ex is asking me to stay and hangout longer... i just left before it got out of hand. 
i feel bad for her because now she's going to feel guilty, but i also think that guy deserved a dose and a reminder of why he should get his shit together. 


i don't like the empty feeling of things like that though, because it takes me away from the parts of myself that would bring me closer to the people i want in my life. the sweeter people, the genuinely good or selfless--they turn away, or are scared away. 
i've been using the concept of this really timid person that i work with, who have my eye on, in this as well. i can see the effects of how she withdraws, but also in myself by how non-connective i become. nothing is genuine nor tender, and i have to be able to cultivate that even with people that i don't know well, even while out in public (lol.. and have it not come from an ulterior motive, have it not be a face that i put on to make more money), if i'm ever going to be with the people that i want... 
i do think i'm getting better with it though. strangely, after whining about how the concept of friendship is nearly lost on me, and yet, that in some way it pains me simultaneously, i'm getting everyone at work trying to "bro-hug" me, or telling me that i'm their favorite person, or just that they're glad that i'm there for the night when things get packed. or even seeming miffed when i'm boisterous and laughing with the people that i'm training, like they see that disconnect between my interactions with others and the interactions i have with them... 

that's not two things, i'm kind of missing the point of my monologue here, but i feel that it's long enough and a good basis on which to think for the moment.


----------



## Little_Bird

ripley said:


> I was talking to angel yesterday about how my passion for others is sometimes a reflection of their passion for me.
> Last fall I saw infp eeyore and was pummeled with this cord of energy from him to me. I felt staggered. I wanted to kiss him, and wrap myself around him. Then I felt intensely guilty because my relationship with Byron was like five minutes long.
> I spoke to eeyore about it and he said he'd felt intensely pulled to me, an electricity when we hugged and I can't help but wonder if what I felt was energy he threw at me.
> Because ive felt him at a distance.
> Like from states away.
> Some people I cord to. I can intuit their emotions without speaking. No idea how nor why and most of the time I check my intuitions are right.
> i am attuned to and see energy the way others see people standing in front of them; it's just fucking obvious to me. I'm not psychic, I don't know WHY people look depleted or WHY a room feels tense, I just know when it happens. I can't believe how many other people can't do it. Like, hello, oblivious. Earth to you.
> but this is different and beyond my personal intelligence. My feelings, i.e., bodily sensations, seem to intuitively respond to what others are feeling. And if they want to fuck me, apparently it makes me want sex too. I mean, depending on the person.
> So it makes me wonder... How much of my emotion is mine. How much is actually energetic reciprocity and bodily cues?


YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY TIMES I'VE ASKED MYSELF THAT. Those final two sentences. 

Is it the energy I'm projecting? Or am I reacting to that energy? I called it the mirror effect. I can see what the other person is seeing in me basically. That way, I intuit their thoughts and motives, depending on their reactions to my energy. It's weird right?? But super useful because it's enabled me to either draw closer or stay away from harmful individuals. 

About the sexual energy though, that's why I HATED high school so much. There was so much pubescent sexual energy around me, plus the fact that I have a lot of natural sexual energy, plus being invested into what could have been the love of my life (we went separate ways, long painful story) which made *cough*turned on*cough* almost 24/7. I've never been more sexually frustrated in my entire life than in my junior year, and I hope it never happens again because it was hell. I hate being in an area with too much sexual energy, because I really like to be in control of situations, and don't like to sleep around. Fi would never let me sleep at night LOL. People have been known to take advantage of that in me, so if you play the right notes, and pressure me a lot, I will crumble and I will never live with myself because that part of me is only for the being my soul has given itself to. Did I just rant? Haha. 
But yeah, the whole being able to sense people's energy and going by it, I don't even remember a time I didn't do that. It was automatic, even in my earliest memories. My intuition is 99.9% right, and when I don't listen to it, well... Thats when it raises the middle finger at me and everything goes wrong   

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk


----------



## Little_Bird

series0 said:


> I really do sincerely thank you for you relating the ability to re-emerge after pain and circumstance. To me this is the failing of so many people and I have to say, especially women. The getting burned or hurt or emotionally wounded and being simply UNABLE or UNWILLING after years of effort and therapy and soul-searching and ... whatever, to work up even one iota of energy to re-open the flower of light and wonder and passion for life that is required to have any real ... COURAGE.
> 
> These days COURAGE is almost absent in the world. It is our culture to shrink or whine in offendedness to everything. There is no defiant flower! I have a stubborn camelia in my yard. It was a great bush at one time but something almost killed it. It is now a scraggle of dead branches and I did eventually trim it back to the trunk. But for a long time and since, that little nub strives with all its might and every year produces an amazing flower. Just 1. But it damn well does it. It re-opens to life, to possibility, to meaning.
> 
> Cheers!


Thank you so much for this post. Just saw it! Haha, I've been off here for a month because of work, college, work, social life, personal goals, work! 

Thanks a ton, and I hope that camellia in your yard keeps being stubborn! Encouragement like this assures me that people need the phoenix/butterfly/dragon/unicorn me, and that it's worth the fight! I'm almost 100% recovered of the complete BS I had to go through, but as cliche as it sounds, it made me stronger. I feel like a warrior princess


----------



## Eclipsed

I don't have the energy or desire to play games anymore, so if what I am already isn't enough, I will accept that and admit defeat gracefully.

But I'm starting to think it is. And I hope I'm right. Because I'd do anything.


----------



## Lunar Light

I feel my sx instinct so fucking hard right now. I feel like I'm finally fully and completely embracing it, in itself, and _openly_, rather than as just a complement to my social instinct. 

It's so exhilarating. I feel unbelievably alive and raw. 

I do love how I can be cute and sweet and understanding but still so intense and focused. But I held the reins so damn tight, save for those times I seduced people and I started opening up my sexual side... both sexual instinct and simply sexuality. 

I don't blame myself. I largely repressed that side of myself because I was insecure with having an attractive and intense personality because I was shamed for being fat my whole life. I was not comfortable with myself, and I didn't feel like most others could be comfortable with me either, given how I was. It's much easier to both be and be accepted as cute rather than sexy, as a fat person.

It was there, though. So strong, but hidden out of insecurity. When people couldn't see my physical self... with encounters online, with people I ended up obsessing over, I would open up, and I would unleash that fire. 

But I still hid, never really gave details about anything, never owned that side of me completely. Very closed off about attraction and sexuality as a whole. People who knew me in person thought I was not only asexual but aromantic, and it was so upsetting and frustrating. Even people who knew I had relationships knew basically nothing about my passion.

Experiencing sx so deeply again, and finally... finally finally FINALLY, letting go of my control more and more... it makes me realize, I'm so fucking done with being hidden. I want to be able to be me, in every way. I want to burn and burn. 

I feel everything again. I've not only been disengaged from this aspect of myself, but basically ALL of me in the last year or so. I fucking feel again and I'm so thrilled and relieved. 

All this said, I feel like I see more and more now how romanticizing sx is just so... wrong. It's prevalent here, and I see it from people, both sx-dom and not.

Like, damn. Sx is really not beautiful. Not conventionally anyway. Honestly, (IMO) sx is super fucking disgusting. It's obsessive and obnoxious and indulgent and all-consuming and intrusive. It's animalistic and hedonistic. Like, holy shit. Sx is really, really not love. Love can be expressed in such a way and encompass these things, but sx is not love!

Still, more and more, I realize, I FUCKING LOVE THAT. I love how fucking disgusting and primal it is. How perfectly imperfect it is. 

Get ready world. Lunar Light is a new girl


----------



## QueenOfCats

Lunar Light said:


> I feel my sx instinct so fucking hard right now. I feel like I'm finally fully and completely embracing it, in itself, and _openly_, rather than as just a complement to my social instinct.
> 
> It's so exhilarating. I feel unbelievably alive and raw.
> 
> I do love how I can be cute and sweet and understanding but still so intense and focused. But I held the reins so damn tight, save for those times I seduced people and I started opening up my sexual side... both sexual instinct and simply sexuality.
> 
> I don't blame myself. I largely repressed that side of myself because I was insecure with having an attractive and intense personality because I was shamed for being fat my whole life. I was not comfortable with myself, and I didn't feel like most others could be comfortable with me either, given how I was. It's much easier to both be and be accepted as cute rather than sexy, as a fat person.
> 
> It was there, though. So strong, but hidden out of insecurity. When people couldn't see my physical self... with encounters online, with people I ended up obsessing over, I would open up, and I would unleash that fire.
> 
> But I still hid, never really gave details about anything, never owned that side of me completely. Very closed off about attraction and sexuality as a whole. People who knew me in person thought I was not only asexual but aromantic, and it was so upsetting and frustrating. Even people who knew I had relationships knew basically nothing about my passion.
> 
> Experiencing sx so deeply again, and finally... finally finally FINALLY, letting go of my control more and more... it makes me realize, I'm so fucking done with being hidden. I want to be able to be me, in every way. I want to burn and burn.
> 
> I feel everything again. I've not only been disengaged from this aspect of myself, but basically ALL of me in the last year or so. I fucking feel again and I'm so thrilled and relieved.
> 
> All this said, I feel like I see more and more now how romanticizing sx is just so... wrong. It's prevalent here, and I see it from people, both sx-dom and not.
> 
> Like, damn. Sx is really not beautiful. Not conventionally anyway. Honestly, (IMO) sx is super fucking disgusting. It's obsessive and obnoxious and indulgent and all-consuming and intrusive. It's animalistic and hedonistic. Like, holy shit. Sx is really, really not love. Love can be expressed in such a way and encompass these things, but sx is not love!
> 
> Still, more and more, I realize, I FUCKING LOVE THAT. I love how fucking disgusting and primal it is. How perfectly imperfect it is.
> 
> Get ready world. Lunar Light is a new girl


MY BBY :wink:


----------



## Superfluous

I title this post:_ Intimate Distance and the drama of Sx/Sp_

I now realize I can't keep every person at arm's length due to this constant idea that potentially, I could always be someone's victim: I'm no longer the child people toyed with, or even neglected. The last time I was in the hospital (for my chronic illness,) I had my doctor bring in the psychiatrist to introduce an antidepressant that had pain reducing benefits. 10 minutes of discussion and the shrink told me I ought to be a lawyer, "I have to be smart for myself," I retorted. Yes the defenses are quite militant, however, if you were in my shoes the learned helplessness would just absolutely bore you. So the past few days I entertained this aspect in my life and came to a light bulb moment. When people enter my life, or are crossing intimate borders in my territory, I use my powers of over-analyzation for self preservation. Operative word: Over-analyzation. The exam is to determine if they are a prospective threat to my emotional well-being and immense growth of a person. Drama would ensue but I believed these presumptions made me feel safe. But I tell you, if safety is your agenda knowing yourself is trading a gun for a security system. 

I believe in constant evolvement of humans, and adapting. And, I didn't see this before until I sat down and just *thought* about it... but there are 5 things about me that makes me, *me*. Unorthodox, sure, but never unhealthy or selfish. Despite how scattered or Go with the flow I seem to be, there are no changing this bullet list. If anyone attempts to, screw conflict mode and the dramatic episode where the protagonist feels broken and tries to fix herself, this person just isn't for me. Goodbye lol. I would be embarrassed that it took me so long to get this but obviously the lack of acknowledgement represents my backstory more than my intellect.

It's amazing. I used to read people down, read situations up, and have 15 tabs of sociology and psychology blogs open because that's how I felt secure. 1 week of being more conscious of how my mind thinks, and suddenly, life is so simple. I can sense my many wall of defenses lowering, but I could still be a lawyer.


----------



## kaleidoscope

@Lunar Light @QueenOfCats


----------



## QueenOfCats

kaleidoscope said:


> @_Lunar Light_ @_QueenOfCats_


AW OMG ILY!!! :kitteh:


----------



## QueenOfCats

@Lunar Light 

I love you so fucking much - more than me, more than life, more than all the love I have for everything combined, and that's a lot of love. You make me feel like such an animal with you, and it always makes me feel hot and overwhelmed and completely addicted.


----------



## Lunar Light

@QueenOfCats @kaleidoscope

OH MY FUCKING GOD

GONNA KILL YOU BOTH 
YOU GUYS ARE SO EMBARRASSING AHHH i can't even rfdkgdgdflgdjflg :angry: :blushed:

I love y'all a lot though


----------



## series0

Eclipsed said:


> I don't have the energy or desire to play games anymore, so if what I am already isn't enough, I will accept that and admit defeat gracefully.
> 
> But I'm starting to think it is. And I hope I'm right. Because I'd do anything.


My sister, a 7-4-8 and lacking energy? An ENTP and done with games? We are never defeated! If it looks like it, we just create a whole new imaginary world to feel joy in. See if you can trick someone else into smiling, and then, ask yourself, why was it a trick?


----------



## series0

Amazing reading that post by the way. It's rare someone makes me stop and think these days. I tell you, I actually have to shift gears into the real me, a me that is put on the shelf 99% of the time because 99% of the people I meet lack the acumen to stay in gear with me.



Superfluous said:


> ... Drama would ensue but I believed these presumptions made me feel safe. But I tell you, if safety is your agenda knowing yourself is trading a gun for a security system.


I don't quite see this point. It seems like you are hinting at aggression vs defensiveness. I offer a non militant possible adjustment, if you like it. Trade the over-analysis (security system) for walking your ass out the door into exposure as often as you can tolerate the sun on your skin. Your analogy is tied to your thinking of your boundaries as a stationary prison. Passive/active doesn't matter. It's still a defensive system. What happened to your push, not with 'guns' but with hope and dreams and such, even something as simple as desire itself? So you push and that actually has a lot of defensive properties to it. Your forward momentum has a lot of potential. You can veer using the inertia to avoid dangers. But it all required being engaged. Having inertia to bleed off. No target is every so vulnerable as a sitting duck. Trajectory math will not get a rocket to escape velocity. Analyze all you want. Without fuel the launchpad is all you will ever see. 



Superfluous said:


> I believe in constant evolvement of humans, and adapting. And, I didn't see this before until I sat down and just *thought* about it... but there are 5 things about me that makes me, *me*. Unorthodox, sure, but never unhealthy or selfish. Despite how scattered or Go with the flow I seem to be, there are no changing this bullet list.


OK



Superfluous said:


> If anyone attempts to, screw conflict mode and the dramatic episode where the protagonist feels broken and tries to fix herself, this person just isn't for me. Goodbye lol.


Correct me if I am wrong. You are declaring that you will not waste time on self-criticism and emotional drama that is wearing for you, you will just cut short the process and move on. This means that a candidate for ... intimacy ... has come through your security systems and starts making you doubt yourself? I ask because when you said, 'if anyone attempts to, " there is no <do what> unless we refer back a good ways in your post to that context. 

I think I see what you mean. But I wonder. Are the people that challenge us in some uncomfortable way, precisely often the way we do not want to be challenged, not EXACTLY what we do need for 'immense growth of a person'? I think you are also talking about filtering and in that sense, mademoiselle, vous avez raison! Exactement! I mean there is a lot of chum out there, in both senses of the word. Wading through the flotsam and jetsam is tiring and has to be avoiding succinctly, if and when that shortcut is possible. Just be careful because people do throw pearls before swine and that means that out there in the world are many piles of pigshit with pearls in them. The pearl of great price might not be in gear until you reveal more of yourself and wake them up. Then you gear them up and some harmony can ensue. But it requires risk. That is the tradeoff. Prospecting, so much harder amid the sea of humans ...



Superfluous said:


> I would be embarrassed that it took me so long to get this but obviously the lack of acknowledgement represents my backstory more than my intellect.


Oh boy, do I know that feeling. The author of my backstory is a dead ... person/God/thing ... if I can ever find them. I should have been heir to the elven throne, clearly, and or the inventor of the warp drive engine. Don't tell me I didn't put in the time and energy. Lifting seas of lemmings is expensive energy-wise. Ha ha!



Superfluous said:


> It's amazing. I used to read people down, read situations up, and have 15 tabs of sociology and psychology blogs open because that's how I felt secure. 1 week of being more conscious of how my mind thinks, and suddenly, life is so simple. I can sense my many wall of defenses lowering, but I could still be a lawyer.


Objection your honor. Council has batted her eyelashes!


----------



## series0

Little_Bird said:


> Thank you so much for this post. Just saw it! Haha, I've been off here for a month because of work, college, work, social life, personal goals, work!
> 
> Thanks a ton, and I hope that camellia in your yard keeps being stubborn! Encouragement like this assures me that people need the phoenix/butterfly/dragon/unicorn me, and that it's worth the fight! I'm almost 100% recovered of the complete BS I had to go through, but as cliche as it sounds, it made me stronger. I feel like a warrior princess


More ...










Or MORE :










Or ,... you post ....


----------



## 6007

Little_Bird said:


> YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MANY TIMES I'VE ASKED MYSELF THAT. Those final two sentences.
> 
> Is it the energy I'm projecting? Or am I reacting to that energy? I called it the mirror effect. I can see what the other person is seeing in me basically. That way, I intuit their thoughts and motives, depending on their reactions to my energy. It's weird right?? But super useful because it's enabled me to either draw closer or stay away from harmful individuals.
> 
> About the sexual energy though, that's why I HATED high school so much. There was so much pubescent sexual energy around me, plus the fact that I have a lot of natural sexual energy, plus being invested into what could have been the love of my life (we went separate ways, long painful story) which made *cough*turned on*cough* almost 24/7. I've never been more sexually frustrated in my entire life than in my junior year, and I hope it never happens again because it was hell. I hate being in an area with too much sexual energy, because I really like to be in control of situations, and don't like to sleep around. Fi would never let me sleep at night LOL. People have been known to take advantage of that in me, so if you play the right notes, and pressure me a lot, I will crumble and I will never live with myself because that part of me is only for the being my soul has given itself to. Did I just rant? Haha.
> But yeah, the whole being able to sense people's energy and going by it, I don't even remember a time I didn't do that. It was automatic, even in my earliest memories. My intuition is 99.9% right, and when I don't listen to it, well... Thats when it raises the middle finger at me and everything goes wrong
> 
> Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk


How interesting! I call it sensing, not intuition. Because I see it with my eyes and feel it in my body!


----------



## drmiller100

Superfluous said:


> I
> 
> I believe in constant evolvement of humans, and adapting. And, I didn't see this before until I sat down and just *thought* about it... .


Thanks to Series0 for causing me to go find this post......

Most people don't continue to evolve and grow - they plateau out and quit growing.

I can look at a lesson, or concept, like you have, and glean information and the lessons. life goes on, and something happens, and I end up back in life, looking at the lesson, but deeper, more harder, lessons are now revealed. the old stuff is still there, but even more is now obvious, and it is tempting to say "NOW I GET IT!" but if I spend some time, often even more is revealed.

One lesson which took me forever is I can't fix anyone else. I can barely make a difference on me, and working on anyone else is a waste of time and futility.

On another site, my avatar is the quote by Rand to remind me of one of my personal traps: I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
I come back to this lesson. And when I come back to this lesson, I see the beauty in some and how the really cool people don't WANT me to fix them, they want to do the work themselves, but sometimes I can offer advice well received.

My trap.


----------



## 6007

It seems a new life coach pops up every single day. 
Everyone is a coach or an expert in law of attraction. 
I myself am not, but because my input is so strong, I am really fucking good at learning new systems and bridging the distance between the two of them. It remains to be seen what my studies will yield but I'm strongly intuiting that I am coming up with an actual system that can help others, or at least myself, live with greater connection to nature, each other, and the self. 
I am wondering if woo is a higher strength than I tested as well... I seem to believe everyone will succumb to me, given a long enough time line. 
I am irresistible.


----------



## 6007

convinced my best friend and boyfriend to go camping at a potentially haunted campground but I haven't told them. 
I am thinking reality reflects what we believe so I'm going to view it as the eyes of all the benevolent ones all around me.
But just in case I'm bringing some stones and maybe salt.
Because fuck all that.


----------



## Donovan

Neokortex said:


> So I read a bit more of it. I think I had something similar. That thing when you thought you were past that short phase with a girl and then she keeps coming back. You sorta keep eliciting her interest. Urgh, can only repeat myself: that's a tough thing, probably the best is just to remove yourself from her. Since this is the Sx thread and I also assumed you were an Sx-dom, the way I felt I was able to connect with what you wrote is the hardship of trying to communicate with Sx blindspots, which your girl seems to be from what you wrote. And what I can infer from how you present the whole story is that you're not that much willing to lay your emotions down the table. That's your private sphere. But you're more willing to get closer to someone in a more physical and intellectual way - the directness of which seemingly turns her off. But when you're charming around the other women, the social status you earn with them is something that sparks her interest, as if she expected you to connect with her through the social sphere (keeping it all light and easy, nothing too intimate). So the problem seems to be that the part you're interested in her, her type of emotions, her innocence, is expressed through the social sphere, but your innocence you'd like to share with her is expressed through shrouded piercing wildness.


who knows? you may be on to something but i honestly think her mindset is revolving around fear--just in general, of having to exist in a social setting where she doesn't have an anchor that makes her feel comfortable. 
that may seem too detailed of a thought for a person i don't know, but i also know that i'm very intuitive and not often wrong (when i can keep my head and emotions out of the picture). 

her getting obviously and visibly uncomfortable when i approach her in a more direct way, trying to hang out, sitting next to the picture of her ease to flirt and show her interest more overtly (outside of lingering stares and making a point to say bye to me each time before she leaves), just shows an internal disconnect of sorts... she did mention a 'mid-life crisis' (we're all in our middle twenties) that spurred her to just throw everything down and travel the world till she ran out of money... 


eh, there are connections to be made there but it wouldn't be to anyone's benefit. since i scare her in a way i don't fully understand, i'll just treat her in a way that is more mild, more obviously showing a respect towards boundaries that send her running, and leave it alone. fleeting stares and genuine warm smiles are enough for me, if they come from her. 
plus, i can't develop feelings for someone that can only give me the time of day without running, when her best friend and accompanied boyfriend come along for the ride. i mean, the other day i invited her to a party and she visibly looked for escape routes--hahaha, oh my god, this poor, poor, sweet person--and then was like, _"uh--uh, no!"_ and then literally kind of ran. i didn't mean to, but i think i rubbed dirt in that experience by laughing and raising my voice (as the distance between us was growing, right), and was like, "hahahaha--oh my god, did you really just run away... okay, have a good night 'Her Name'?". 

she did invite me to a death-day part of best friend's, old best friend. i was standing close and she turned and was like, "and you should come, it'll be a lot of fun... uh _*looks around left, right, and left again*_, uh, i mean, like, everyone should come. everyone here right now should just come. y'all really should"... 


it's actually kind of sweet. and i will just leave it at that: something that won't happen, but shy affection will still exist. the concept makes my chest hurt, but it also makes me smile. it's kind of cute, or heartwarming in a way...


----------



## 6007

I used to be a mirror and now I am a bridge.


----------



## 6007

I can't get over how sweet Byron is. 
when I'm clearly stressed and annoyed he comes over and hugs me. 
Or he rolls me a joint for later. 

I suspect he is my familiar.


----------



## 6007

I want a new name. 
Ever since my divorce I'm stuck between one of the several names I've had already, and I don't want any of them. 
I can't think of anything meaningful.


----------



## 6007

Did some journeying/energy work on myself last night. 
Apparently I had some healing centered around two family members, and I worked on that. 
Then I saw this being. It touched me on my forehead and I became very very tall and almost hysterically powerful. I calmed myself down and asked it not to touch me again and removed its energy from me. It looked like a slightly human shape but it's face was like a clump of brown hair or brown rope. It didn't have features. 
things continued to be weird as I saw dead robot and his lady friend, or their shapes anyway. She had a cord of energy I drew out from her mouth. This is where shit got even weirder. 
The cord of energy was... Residual energy of mine, which was left on dead robot... And that is why she was drawn to him. 
I am not consciously aware of thinking that any traces of me would draw people to dead robot, but as I consider myself incredibly charismatic when I'm awake, Obvi this could be a projection. I remember also thinking that since so many of my interests are both broad and somewhat deep, I improved his life with a variety of media he otherwise wouldn't have explored. So this could be a projection but then... I had to figure out what to do with the cord. 
I thought, this cannot be destroyed nor should it, so I released it into the universal energy pool. That felt right. 
Then I saw Diablo. I apologized for never being clear in my communication even though he helped design our dynamic himself. An orb of light floated out of his mouth. I absorbed it. 
I took the clump face and submerged her into water. 
She became a person, and then a giddy fairy who was flying around, completely ecstatic.


----------



## 6007

I used to mistype as an infj for years, but having been in intimate contact with several at this point, the idea is fucking laughable. But on some level I can conceive of why I made the mistake. 
It is funny when I try to get Byron out of a funk by going for a walk. That just overwhelms him more. Too much sensory input. 
Differences fascinate.


----------



## Animal

Confession
I am reconsidering my head-fix. I might have a 5 fix. The problem is I refuse to type at 458 tritype in public. It's the biggest n00b mistake. I am not a n00b, but I don't want to be associated with those people. Sigh. Image issues.

[disclaimer: @_ripley_ you probably ARE that tritype, imo, so I don't mean you.]


----------



## Kintsugi

ripley said:


> I used to mistype as an infj for years, but having been in intimate contact with several at this point, the idea is fucking laughable. But on some level I can conceive of why I made the mistake.
> It is funny when I try to get Byron out of a funk by going for a walk. That just overwhelms him more. Too much sensory input.
> Differences fascinate.


Had to comment on this, lol.

I'm an ESFP and my fiancée is an INTJ....I know this dynamic well! I pulled him out for a massive hike the other weekend and he was so completely overwhelmed and out of it by the end, while I was in my element (raring for more).

I used to type as an ENFP for ages but after having lived with an INTJ and spent a lot of time with him and his best-friend (an actual ENFP), I find it pretty amusing now that I mistyped for so long.


----------



## Neokortex

Donovan said:


> who knows? you may be on to something but i honestly think her mindset is revolving around fear--just in general, of having to exist in a social setting where she doesn't have an anchor that makes her feel comfortable.
> that may seem too detailed of a thought for a person i don't know, but i also know that i'm very intuitive and not often wrong (when i can keep my head and emotions out of the picture).
> 
> her getting obviously and visibly uncomfortable when i approach her in a more direct way, trying to hang out, sitting next to the picture of her ease to flirt and show her interest more overtly (outside of lingering stares and making a point to say bye to me each time before she leaves), just shows an internal disconnect of sorts... she did mention a 'mid-life crisis' (we're all in our middle twenties) that spurred her to just throw everything down and travel the world till she ran out of money...
> 
> 
> eh, there are connections to be made there but it wouldn't be to anyone's benefit. since i scare her in a way i don't fully understand, i'll just treat her in a way that is more mild, more obviously showing a respect towards boundaries that send her running, and leave it alone. fleeting stares and genuine warm smiles are enough for me, if they come from her.
> plus, i can't develop feelings for someone that can only give me the time of day without running, when her best friend and accompanied boyfriend come along for the ride. i mean, the other day i invited her to a party and she visibly looked for escape routes--hahaha, oh my god, this poor, poor, sweet person--and then was like, _"uh--uh, no!"_ and then literally kind of ran. i didn't mean to, but i think i rubbed dirt in that experience by laughing and raising my voice (as the distance between us was growing, right), and was like, "hahahaha--oh my god, did you really just run away... okay, have a good night 'Her Name'?".
> 
> she did invite me to a death-day part of best friend's, old best friend. i was standing close and she turned and was like, "and you should come, it'll be a lot of fun... uh _*looks around left, right, and left again*_, uh, i mean, like, everyone should come. everyone here right now should just come. y'all really should"...
> 
> 
> it's actually kind of sweet. and i will just leave it at that: something that won't happen, but shy affection will still exist. the concept makes my chest hurt, but it also makes me smile. it's kind of cute, or heartwarming in a way...


Huh... Yeah, right. Sounds like an IxxP with a low range So/Sx there, since traveling till an empty wallet sounds pretty much like low self-preservation. Do you think that the way she dresses gives off this childish bubbly sexuality? Set against her you seem to be more extroverted with all those party scenes going on, Sx/So by chance?

I particularly like to dance with girls around that fine line between "appropriateness" and overt expressions of sexuality. Just yesterday I had a planned meeting with a geeky ISFJ. Turns out that the only reason why I was able to give a good impression and ask her out after just one random talk in the library is that she has an sp/sx E5 (I could read that off from her when I 1st saw her). But other than that she's a well integrated social subtype. We tried together to figure out her tritype and what I've found is that her E5 is a dominant type, she puts much emphasis on it, that's why she was willing to come out: she needs 1-on-1 conversations to share her non-mainstream sciency interests. That function is supported by a social E2. And her gut type, we couldn't figure out, that's her blind spot it seemed. She wasn't able to elaborate much on wanting to have any physical desires since her helping others kinda represses her selfish needs. But all these smart stuff she heard from me convinced her that I'm a good guy and she said she would be willing to face her darker side with knowing that she would have to face mine. But before we departed I did a test and asked if she considered me a hot guy. Suddenly, the fears started creeping in. I told her I considered her a good looking girl. That's when she said she has to catch her bus and turned away. I was still able to say I was sorry for intimidating her and she replied with annoyance in her voice: "Don't be sorry!" DDD Good guuurl DD


----------



## Neokortex

Lunar Light said:


> I feel my sx instinct so fucking hard right now. I feel like I'm finally fully and completely embracing it, in itself, and _openly_, rather than as just a complement to my social instinct.
> 
> It's so exhilarating. I feel unbelievably alive and raw.
> 
> I do love how I can be cute and sweet and understanding but still so intense and focused. But I held the reins so damn tight, save for those times I seduced people and I started opening up my sexual side... both sexual instinct and simply sexuality.
> 
> I don't blame myself. I largely repressed that side of myself because I was insecure with having an attractive and intense personality because I was shamed for being fat my whole life. I was not comfortable with myself, and I didn't feel like most others could be comfortable with me either, given how I was. It's much easier to both be and be accepted as cute rather than sexy, as a fat person.
> 
> It was there, though. So strong, but hidden out of insecurity. When people couldn't see my physical self... with encounters online, with people I ended up obsessing over, I would open up, and I would unleash that fire.
> 
> But I still hid, never really gave details about anything, never owned that side of me completely. Very closed off about attraction and sexuality as a whole. People who knew me in person thought I was not only asexual but aromantic, and it was so upsetting and frustrating. Even people who knew I had relationships knew basically nothing about my passion.
> 
> Experiencing sx so deeply again, and finally... finally finally FINALLY, letting go of my control more and more... it makes me realize, I'm so fucking done with being hidden. I want to be able to be me, in every way. I want to burn and burn.
> 
> I feel everything again. I've not only been disengaged from this aspect of myself, but basically ALL of me in the last year or so. I fucking feel again and I'm so thrilled and relieved.
> 
> All this said, I feel like I see more and more now how romanticizing sx is just so... wrong. It's prevalent here, and I see it from people, both sx-dom and not.
> 
> Like, damn. Sx is really not beautiful. Not conventionally anyway. Honestly, (IMO) sx is super fucking disgusting. It's obsessive and obnoxious and indulgent and all-consuming and intrusive. It's animalistic and hedonistic. Like, holy shit. Sx is really, really not love. Love can be expressed in such a way and encompass these things, but sx is not love!
> 
> Still, more and more, I realize, I FUCKING LOVE THAT. I love how fucking disgusting and primal it is. How perfectly imperfect it is.
> 
> Get ready world. Lunar Light is a new girl


So... who's your next target?


----------



## Kintsugi

Yesterday we officially set the date for our wedding: 14th May 2016.

There is no way I could give justice to our love story by putting it into words. I really want to, but words always fail me. Then again, I've never been the best at giving things meaning, and turning human experiences into beautiful pieces of art (my other half is much better at that.) It has always amazed me how he can take the seemingly mundane and turn it into something so precious and unique. That's probably one of the things that drew me to him in the first place.

I met him on PerC in 2012 (I actually made an account because after a google search about MBTI I happened to stumble on a thread in which he had posted a comment that immeditely drew me in. The only reason I made that account was so that I could stalk him, lol).

It was a strange and paradoxical time for me because, on the one hand, 2012 was a "pivotal" year, and on the other, it marked the slow and gradual downward spiral of regression that marred my life for the next few years. It was the cataclysmic mix of both good and bad, light and dark, and love and hate...

I say this, yet, there have been many crossroads and many "great moments", but, there was something about this period in my life that was different. 

I believe it was because I found _you.

_The day you asked me to be yours you took me on a hiking trip up into the Blue Mountains (because you know how much I love to climb and explore despite how much it tires you). Everything about that moment was so perfect in such a beautifully imperfect human way. Like how you tried to video the moment you proposed but we had to stop filming because people were staring and I complained that I looked like a sweaty, swollen-nosed, tomato because I was crying so much....which I still maintain was true (despite you telling me that I will always be beautiful to you, lol).

I'm so lucky. Really, I am. And even though the thought of losing you terrifies me I know that if I ever had to face that reality, that I will always be able to find the strength inside of me to go on because of the love that you have shared and shown me. It is, by far, the most precious thing I have ever been given, and you will always be my most precious treasure. <3

Seeing as this was the place where we first met I wanted to leave a little memento here for us to look back on in years to come (the same way we look back at the very first PMs we sent each other and giggle at how awkward and goofy we were). 

Here is the song you played during that beautiful moment, and the necklaces we bought at the airport the first time we had to say goodbye. I'm not a sentimental person in general, but these two things I will always hold close to my heart.

I love you. I am yours and you are mine, forever. <3













[/URL] free photo hosting[/IMG]


----------



## Donovan

Neokortex said:


> Huh... Yeah, right. Sounds like an IxxP with a low range So/Sx there, since traveling till an empty wallet sounds pretty much like low self-preservation. Do you think that the way she dresses gives off this childish bubbly sexuality? Set against her you seem to be more extroverted with all those party scenes going on, Sx/So by chance?
> 
> I particularly like to dance with girls around that fine line between "appropriateness" and overt expressions of sexuality. Just yesterday I had a planned meeting with a geeky ISFJ. Turns out that the only reason why I was able to give a good impression and ask her out after just one random talk in the library is that she has an sp/sx E5 (I could read that off from her when I 1st saw her). But other than that she's a well integrated social subtype. We tried together to figure out her tritype and what I've found is that her E5 is a dominant type, she puts much emphasis on it, that's why she was willing to come out: she needs 1-on-1 conversations to share her non-mainstream sciency interests. That function is supported by a social E2. And her gut type, we couldn't figure out, that's her blind spot it seemed. She wasn't able to elaborate much on wanting to have any physical desires since her helping others kinda represses her selfish needs. But all these smart stuff she heard from me convinced her that I'm a good guy and she said she would be willing to face her darker side with knowing that she would have to face mine. But before we departed I did a test and asked if she considered me a hot guy. Suddenly, the fears started creeping in. I told her I considered her a good looking girl. That's when she said she has to catch her bus and turned away. I was still able to say I was sorry for intimidating her and she replied with annoyance in her voice: "Don't be sorry!" DDD Good guuurl DD



no i wouldn't say she dresses sexily. that's really not here nor there for me (it's all about energy, and the read i get from a person)... 
she actually tries to not draw attention to herself. she just does her job and tries to help other people, never gets mad or shows any sign of duress (unless you put the spotlight on her)... really, she's just cute, and ever so sweet. i can feel my presence makes her uncomfortable, so i tone myself down, because everything she does just makes me smile. 
i think she's the only person i haven't yelled at before, or argued with--workmates, managers, and owner included. that wouldn't be right and i wouldn't like myself after, so even when she kind of messes things up for me i'm just like, "... _*smiles*_ nope, all good. you're good, don't worry about it", because she just doesn't symbolize anything to me that would be an entity that one can be justifiably angry towards. 

really, i just give her space at work, since everything seems to make her kind of run as far as work will allow. but, at the same time, i still try and casually ask her to hang out, if the chance arises to do so in a way that allows her an easy out (i think she's terrified of being awkward, lol). 


about "dancing on the lines of appropriateness": 

most of my actions, unless the situation actually calls me to act, usually come from the reading i get from the other. i don't usually act that way towards women unless they are clearly the sort of person who would enjoy it (or the person who is playfully asking for it). 
i really don't see that going down well with her... 



sorry to hear that you scared her away man, lol. maybe one has to be more subtle with a type 5? because doing that sort of thing kind of puts them on the spot, and makes them aware of, or forces them to look at things, in such a way that normally escapes them... and that puts them into a state of "fear"? 
they'd have to be eased into it. come to think of it, this person is probably a 5 or a 9 (possibly even a 4?)... not that i wish to view things in such a way though.


----------



## 6007

Animal said:


> Confession
> I am reconsidering my head-fix. I might have a 5 fix. The problem is I refuse to type at 458 tritype in public. It's the biggest n00b mistake. I am not a n00b, but I don't want to be associated with those people. Sigh. Image issues.
> 
> [disclaimer: @_ripley_ you probably ARE that tritype, imo, so I don't mean you.]


Wouldn't have taken offense, but appreciate your considerate clarification. 
You know I never knew 458 tritype is a cliched noobie thing. I'm pretty sure I am the tritype. upon first hearing of enneagram I typed as 7w8 tho.


----------



## 6007

There is a huge freedom in relying upon how self involved other people are.
i seem to rely upon this fact quite a lot.
knowing no one cares gives me permission to just be real. 
So if I want to sing my heart out, I know everyone is just talking to each other or will cringe for me but the moment will pass and it will be fine. 
It is hard to articulate to myself really. 
if I can convince myself it will be forgettable or no one will notice I feel more ready to show up. 
But if I really had attention, I shrivel up and feel awkward. 
So it's like... A compulsion to hide in plain sight.


----------



## 6007

I totally lose myself in reading and learning as a way to avoid/relieve stress. 
I am watching myself do this more and more lately. 
The promise of a new book and new system of thought is a wonderful escape. But it is still a self deception. 

I have a lot of room to grow.


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

Can't say I'm an SX-dominant because I have no clue about my stackings.  But I'll just vent on my thoughts here. 

* * * 

Since that typing tempest has blown over, I've been researching the Enneagram nonstop. Reading all the forum posts, typing profiles, excerpts, anything I can get my hands on. You could say it's an obsession. But life is much more interesting when you're obsessed with something, isn't it?
Yet...something's telling me that there's almost no use to it. For furthering my outer knowledge? Yes. But for knowing more about myself? No. 

Maybe the answer's been inside me this whole time. I just need to find it.

...I always thought I flip-flopped between 4w5 or 5w4, but now, it's a race between 3w4 or 4w3. If I go for 3, it makes me feel empowered. I am more confident, motivated, open with myself. Traits I've idealized for so long are in my hands now. However, this alone doesn't eliminate 4. Maybe it's the fact that I considered it my core for so long, that it's like being an Ni-dom. Both are like a second skin for me. I can't just rip both out of my body. 

Besides, if I go along with the crowd and submit to the pressure, I could never forgive myself.


----------



## 6007

I wish I could come to some understanding of why I still think about Diablo. 
It was easier when I was mad at him. But now I just miss him. 
Im not used to missing people. 
I think usually I burn bridges and banish people from my mind. 
Things have changed tho. 
I really cared about people, and it sucks to let things go. 
I haven't always had a choice about it, tho. 
I've learned relationships have to be reciprocal. 
I'm also aware maybe hearing from me would be selfish on my part, and I don't want to injure anyone. My selfish desire to reconnect isn't stronger than my desire to give peace to others and let them be happy, even if it hurts me. 

I know I have to accept my feelings. 
It sucks tho.


----------



## 6007

That is a legitimate difference between me and my peers it seems now that I think about it. 
When I realize that my feelings are unwanted or Not needed and bad for my healing I cut things off. 
I don't cut off the feelings tho. Those I grapple with. 
But... Say Diablo had gotten a girlfriend. I would've still spoken to him platonically if he seemed ok with it or initiated it. But I wouldn't presume a man who moved on with his life needs me blowing up his shit. 
Nor do I very easily maintain contact with people who stop talking. It's like I need connection to initiate. 
Or if a connection starts going bad, I let it go, whilst hating having to do it. 
My friend Angel fucked that asshole that's been messing with her mind yesterday. 
I do not understand it. 
I really don't. 
Like... How can you share your body and time with someone who treats you like that. 
Does not compute.


----------



## 6007

i really think "woo" is in my top five strengths and I was just oblivious to this innate drive I have to connect, remove barriers, be charming, be charmed, foster intensity and closeness, and like, be best friends. Good god it's insane. It's so obvious I utterly overlooked it. Well done, Rips to my Lou my darling.

Books I have
enchantment
the guide to charm
the art of woo
the art of seduction
miss manners guide to excruciatingly correct behavior
emily post's guide to etiquette

When I think of my reasoning to learn these things in the beginning, it was to learn to be more human and pass as normal and to understand social expectations. But then it became utterly addictive, and I didn't think WHY. It's because I want to connect. I want to remove subconscious barriers I might create that keep me finding other people utterly boring and instead find a way to find them interesting and thus amuse myself. Of course people seem tedious if you alienate them in your ignorance. Of course they seem boring if you don't take the time to observe and study them.


----------



## cinnabun

When you work yourself to death but still don't have enough money to survive.

#minimumwageproblemz

#howthefuckamIsupposedtoenjoylifeffs

#Iwanttogooutandactuallyhavefunandgoondateswithmyboyfriendgoddamn

#Idontwanttoskinmyselfjusttobeabletobuysomeoneabirthdaypresent

Seriously...can you fat greedy pigs that we call politicians stop giving yourself pay rises and actually give them to people like me? I'm not earning the living wage, please make that happen. Thank you.


----------



## 6007

Gorgonzola cheese is like sex in my mouth


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

I'm too hard on myself when it comes to my perceived intelligence.

Seriously, I've just heard about this Fantastical Beauty typing and I _cannot_ wrap my head around it. Makes me feel like a complete idiot for not understanding the system on the first try. Maybe I could ask for some second opinions. But self-consciousness rears its ugly head again. 

Ugh, this sucks because I want a new obsession. And I feel that this could prove useful with developing more of my aesthetics.


----------



## Kintsugi

Arrrghhh!

I'm SO conflicted!

Somebody just cut me in half so that each side of me can happily do as they please and stop fighting with each other!


----------



## 6007

Scarlet Eyes said:


> I'm too hard on myself when it comes to my perceived intelligence.
> 
> Seriously, I've just heard about this Fantastical Beauty typing and I _cannot_ wrap my head around it. Makes me feel like a complete idiot for not understanding the system on the first try. Maybe I could ask for some second opinions. But self-consciousness rears its ugly head again.
> 
> Ugh, this sucks because I want a new obsession. And I feel that this could prove useful with developing more of my aesthetics.


If I may insert myself into this situation, I would like to offer a counter-opinion, and I hope it won't be too unwelcome. 
I am sure you're much smarter than you realize, and if you keep going it will all click into place eventually, perhaps even become easy for you, if you just keep going.


----------



## 6007

I'm at a point in my life where I can totally choose who and what I want to be. 
Of course we are all at that point, like every single day, but what I mean is things have lightened and brightened here (unfortunately my hair has too and I don't like being blonde) and I feel like... If I put my will behind anything, I will have success. 
I don't know what I want, and it's tempting to simply read books and hope an idea will trigger something. 
I am just not typically MUST HAVE THAT in my life, and that is... Well it's fine but it's also hard to ACT when you don't WANT.


----------



## Superfluous

series0 said:


> Amazing reading that post by the way. It's rare someone makes me stop and think these days. I tell you, I actually have to shift gears into the real me, a me that is put on the shelf 99% of the time because 99% of the people I meet lack the acumen to stay in gear with me.


Thank you, I really do appreciate it from both you and @drmiller100 - I would like to be at the point where I could shift gears into the real me, but for as I have been ignorant towards my development for a self-destructive agenda, I'm not the real me quite yet. Only in due time. I apologize for the wait, I got shy since this may be the beginnings to exercising my Ti. (Perhaps I've been in a Ne-Fe loop for the past few years.) 



series0 said:


> I don't quite see this point. It seems like you are hinting at aggression vs defensiveness. I offer a non militant possible adjustment, if you like it. Trade the over-analysis (security system) for walking your ass out the door into exposure as often as you can tolerate the sun on your skin. Your analogy is tied to your thinking of your boundaries as a stationary prison. Passive/active doesn't matter. It's still a defensive system. What happened to your push, not with 'guns' but with hope and dreams and such, even something as simple as desire itself? So you push and that actually has a lot of defensive properties to it. Your forward momentum has a lot of potential. You can veer using the inertia to avoid dangers. But it all required being engaged. Having inertia to bleed off. No target is every so vulnerable as a sitting duck. Trajectory math will not get a rocket to escape velocity. Analyze all you want. Without fuel the launchpad is all you will ever see.


In the analogy; keeping everyone away would be the gun, while knowing myself and my personal principals would be a security system - but you're right, living between the two defaults of defense and offense could get pretty tiring. The thoughts of dreams, and hope and desire, I have a many - but it seems I find it difficult to find the energy to fuel the drive in a constructive way. I have off - doing nothing, and on which is correcting myself and my lifestyle, that I tend to do in in such an extreme manner I don't realize it's harmful towards myself. I.e. hating myself so much, so all at once I change my lifestyle and go on autopilot, such as intense diets and running for 3 hours a day. So let's say same lifestyle but shift of focus: having the dreams and desire and finding the energy to propel me forward without needing to mentally shut off... and luckily, my next session with my hypnotherapist will be targeting motivation. I do agree, once I get the ball rolling - I should not let any potential fear, dread, resistance or denial for other things pump the breaks. So the next question I ought to contemplate is what kind of fuel will get this baby churning? 



series0 said:


> Correct me if I am wrong. You are declaring that you will not waste time on self-criticism and emotional drama that is wearing for you, you will just cut short the process and move on. This means that a candidate for ... intimacy ... has come through your security systems and starts making you doubt yourself? I ask because when you said, 'if anyone attempts to, " there is no <do what> unless we refer back a good ways in your post to that context.


Yes, intimacy is usually involved as I give mostly everyone the benefit of the doubt. If I come to learn I respect your thoughts and opinions, then you are most likely kept in my circle. 



series0 said:


> I think I see what you mean. But I wonder. * Are the people that challenge us in some uncomfortable way, precisely often the way we do not want to be challenged, not EXACTLY what we do need for 'immense growth of a person'? * I think you are also talking about filtering and in that sense, mademoiselle, vous avez raison! Exactement! I mean there is a lot of chum out there, in both senses of the word. Wading through the flotsam and jetsam is tiring and has to be avoiding succinctly, if and when that shortcut is possible. Just be careful because people do throw pearls before swine and that means that out there in the world are many piles of pigshit with pearls in them. The pearl of great price might not be in gear until you reveal more of yourself and wake them up. Then you gear them up and some harmony can ensue. But it requires risk. That is the tradeoff. Prospecting, so much harder amid the sea of humans ...


The bolded thought alone, is perhaps the reason why I keep challenging people around. Not only for amusement, but for the sake of individualist progress. My issue is when I realize too late that my adapting is less "refining myself" and "growing into my shoes" but shaping into a mold, that I convinced myself was me. It happens with lack of internal awareness paired with a grand esteem built on the wrong things. Indeed, I found myself as a shitty pearl, once or twice and have felt not betrayed by the pigs but myself, the hand who casted the pearls but youre so right! There is no waking them up until I wake myself up however, and perhaps that means that is where the harmony has been hiding all a lot. Hmm... This makes gambling sound not only as an opportunity, but fun. 




series0 said:


> Oh boy, do I know that feeling. The author of my backstory is a dead ... person/God/thing ... if I can ever find them. I should have been heir to the elven throne, clearly, and or the inventor of the warp drive engine. Don't tell me I didn't put in the time and energy. Lifting seas of lemmings is expensive energy-wise. Ha ha!


Wine may taste bitter, but don't forget to get drunk. We don't possess forever, and I can tell you are rich in character. After such a loss I know these aren't the magic words to soothe - but hm, food for thought. 



series0 said:


> Objection your honor. Council has batted her eyelashes!


haha! :tongue:



drmiller100 said:


> Most people don't continue to evolve and grow - they plateau out and quit growing.
> 
> I can look at a lesson, or concept, like you have, and glean information and the lessons. life goes on, and something happens, and I end up back in life, looking at the lesson, but deeper, more harder, lessons are now revealed. the old stuff is still there, but even more is now obvious, and it is tempting to say "NOW I GET IT!" but if I spend some time, often even more is revealed.


I guess some people do, and that is their tragedies.

And I agree, sometimes it's finding the hidden gems that makes the introspecting, or even ruminating, worth the fight. 



drmiller100 said:


> One lesson which took me forever is I can't fix anyone else. I can barely make a difference on me, and working on anyone else is a waste of time and futility.
> 
> On another site, my avatar is the quote by Rand to remind me of one of my personal traps: I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
> I come back to this lesson. And when I come back to this lesson, I see the beauty in some and how the really cool people don't WANT me to fix them, they want to do the work themselves, but sometimes I can offer advice well received.
> 
> My trap.


I understand the exhaustion from the savior complex, I tend to be a martyr as well, and then I am actually confused when I am given nothing from my sacrifices. I have to ask myself, what did I expect again? I'm glad youre aware of your traps, it's honest really freeing to really know.


----------



## Kintsugi

*STOP THE PRESS...

I JUST KILLED A COCKROACH!

*_(a fucking *COCKROACH!*)

_It tried to get into our apartment from outside but I bravely made a dash for the cupboard in the laundry and found the bug spray and bazooka'd the crap out of it!

This is a HUGE deal for me. I've been struggling with this crippling phobia since I moved abroad and today, for the first time (and without the aid of alcohol or Valium)...I faced my fears!

_(literally, my phobia is so bad that my partner had to cover the image of a cockroach on the bug spray can because whenever I saw it I started screaming >_>)._

*I AM....VICTORIOUS!



*_
........(except now I have to get rid of the body as it's right next to the front door....and I need to go out. ARrrrgggghhhhh.)_


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

Having a gnawing pain in your stomach, but feeling too nauseous to eat anything, is the worst thing I could experience right now.

The period cramps don't help at all. ><''


----------



## 6007

One thing I LOVE is when I see the same customers shopping once a month with me. I LOVE that my products are as addictive as my personality.

I LOVE BEING ADDICTIVE


----------



## sittapygmaea

This may well not belong here, but I'm not sure where to put it, and I want to hide it away from some other forums where I more commonly post, thus....

I've been processing this and come to a recent revelation: I am displeased with my SOs comments about my sexuality. The tie-in is that he is knowledgable about the enneagram, and after commencing a sexual relationship with me, has become convinced that I am SX dominant. He doesn't connect his 'insight' explicitly with my sexual behavior, but implicitly he does. More generally, he clearly finds me unusually, and rather excessively sexual, and he identifies a particular intensity both in that domain and in general, which he associates with SX first. I feel rather insulted by this (not being SX first which is fine and reasonably plausible, but by having it implicitly linked with my sexuality). 

Mostly, I am frustrated by his regular commentary on my sexual behavior, which is making me feel, slowly but surely, self-conscious and ashamed. He doesn't belabor the point or subject it to extensive discussion, but he makes frequent, offhand comments that, to me, have a decidedly derisive subtext (such as "is this the only reason you keep me around?" and "you are completely insatiable, woman" *laugh*). I'm beginning to think this is something he actually dislikes and or finds uncomfortable about me. If so, I find that both distressing and hurtful. It also makes me feel slightly... undesirable, if I'm honest. It would be nice if the instigation and intensity were more equally distributed. 

On the one hand, I'd like to talk to him about this, but on the other, a) I worry that he won't be honest with me, out of some desire to protect my feelings, his access to me, or both and b) The last thing I want is for him to go into self-censoring mode when he's around me. That is anathema to me. I want him to express himself openly and honestly, and it's hard for anyone to do that if you tell them that their offhand comments are upsetting you. That is pretty much tantamount to asking them to self-censor, at least in many people's hearing. We are clearly very sexually compatible in a lot of ways, but perhaps in other ways we are not. I'm not sure what can be done about it, if anything, but it's something I'd like to discuss explicitly and honestly, and not have swept under the rug. 

The irony in all this is that I am demi-sexual and have a long history of being pretty disinterested in sex. It's always been something I felt I could do without, and it's never been a focal point of any past relationship of mine. There is something specific about him and/or this particular relationship that has absolutely unleashed this aspect of me, previously dormant. I'm sure that my sexual intensity is directly flowing from my specifically emotional (and also intellectual) connection with him, which is very strong and pre-dated the sexual interest. We knew each other for a long time before I had any sexual interest in him at all, and even when the 'romantic' stuff began I didn't have strong sexual impulses at all. It is also exclusively for him-- I don't want to have sex with anyone else. 

Now, with him, sex is a way of utterly, completely being with him and connecting *with him* in the present moment. It is both expressive and receptive, loving and demanding, and most of all: open, like a door pushed to maximum aperture by a rush of wind. He has a tendency to be guarded, and in this context all his walls come down. I can read everything he's feeling right off his face; it is ecstatic. 

Sex includes a number of different physical components, obviously, but with him it is absolutely not a primarily physical act for me. I have heard lots of people describe sex this way before (i.e., as mostly emotional), but it was never so for me; I thought that whole story was pretty camoflage draped onto a fundamentally physical act in order for everyone to feel better about it, its purpose and nature. And now that I have access to a different way of being sexual, the person to whom I express this seems to misunderstand my desires, and regard me as something of a sensory hedonist. He has access to this radical singularity and he doesn't even understand it, much less appreciate it. I have often explained that it is not primarily physical, but I honestly don't think he believes me (based on his comments). The situation would be pretty funny, if it wasn't heartbreaking.


----------



## Neokortex

sittapygmaea said:


> The tie-in is that he is knowledgable about the enneagram, and after commencing a sexual relationship with me, has become convinced that I am SX dominant. He doesn't connect his 'insight' explicitly with my sexual behavior, but implicitly he does. More generally, he clearly finds me unusually, and rather excessively sexual, and he identifies a particular intensity both in that domain and in general, which he associates with SX first. I feel rather insulted by this (not being SX first which is fine and reasonably plausible, but by having it implicitly linked with my sexuality).


Could be that you're sx-dom on your emotional side, such as being a core heart type. That could come with a stronger, intimate (1on1 comm) expression of emotions and confessions that tickle his sexual side. And he may be a gut last Sx-dom, so his last of his tritype is his "final strategy" that he holds up the most. Probably he was not allowed to enjoy physical pleasures in his familial home, for him that's the forbidden fruit, something he wants to attain because he haven't had enough of. Maybe that's why his sexist talk is all on display. Maybe he represses his emotions as a survival strategy and just wants to have sex without emotional involvement.
May ask him what he thinks will save the world: emotions, thinking or having the material side in order (i.e. having bodily needs satiated, eating, comfort, sex). And what is he most willing to give up of these... if it's emotions..., than I guess you're out of luck.


----------



## Donovan

sittapygmaea said:


> This may well not belong here, but I'm not sure where to put it, and I want to hide it away from some other forums where I more commonly post, thus....
> 
> I've been processing this and come to a recent revelation: I am displeased with my SOs comments about my sexuality. The tie-in is that he is knowledgable about the enneagram, and after commencing a sexual relationship with me, has become convinced that I am SX dominant. He doesn't connect his 'insight' explicitly with my sexual behavior, but implicitly he does. More generally, he clearly finds me unusually, and rather excessively sexual, and he identifies a particular intensity both in that domain and in general, which he associates with SX first. I feel rather insulted by this (not being SX first which is fine and reasonably plausible, but by having it implicitly linked with my sexuality).
> 
> Mostly, I am frustrated by his regular commentary on my sexual behavior, which is making me feel, slowly but surely, self-conscious and ashamed. He doesn't belabor the point or subject it to extensive discussion, but he makes frequent, offhand comments that, to me, have a decidedly derisive subtext (such as "is this the only reason you keep me around?" and "you are completely insatiable, woman" *laugh*). I'm beginning to think this is something he actually dislikes and or finds uncomfortable about me. If so, I find that both distressing and hurtful. It also makes me feel slightly... undesirable, if I'm honest. It would be nice if the instigation and intensity were more equally distributed.
> 
> On the one hand, I'd like to talk to him about this, but on the other, a) I worry that he won't be honest with me, out of some desire to protect my feelings, his access to me, or both and b) The last thing I want is for him to go into self-censoring mode when he's around me. That is anathema to me. I want him to express himself openly and honestly, and it's hard for anyone to do that if you tell them that their offhand comments are upsetting you. That is pretty much tantamount to asking them to self-censor, at least in many people's hearing. We are clearly very sexually compatible in a lot of ways, but perhaps in other ways we are not. I'm not sure what can be done about it, if anything, but it's something I'd like to discuss explicitly and honestly, and not have swept under the rug.
> 
> The irony in all this is that I am demi-sexual and have a long history of being pretty disinterested in sex. It's always been something I felt I could do without, and it's never been a focal point of any past relationship of mine. There is something specific about him and/or this particular relationship that has absolutely unleashed this aspect of me, previously dormant. I'm sure that my sexual intensity is directly flowing from my specifically emotional (and also intellectual) connection with him, which is very strong and pre-dated the sexual interest. We knew each other for a long time before I had any sexual interest in him at all, and even when the 'romantic' stuff began I didn't have strong sexual impulses at all. It is also exclusively for him-- I don't want to have sex with anyone else.
> 
> Now, with him, sex is a way of utterly, completely being with him and connecting *with him* in the present moment. It is both expressive and receptive, loving and demanding, and most of all: open, like a door pushed to maximum aperture by a rush of wind. He has a tendency to be guarded, and in this context all his walls come down. I can read everything he's feeling right off his face; it is ecstatic.
> 
> Sex includes a number of different physical components, obviously, but with him it is absolutely not a primarily physical act for me. I have heard lots of people describe sex this way before (i.e., as mostly emotional), but it was never so for me; I thought that whole story was pretty camoflage draped onto a fundamentally physical act in order for everyone to feel better about it, its purpose and nature. And now that I have access to a different way of being sexual, the person to whom I express this seems to misunderstand my desires, and regard me as something of a sensory hedonist. He has access to this radical singularity and he doesn't even understand it, much less appreciate it. I have often explained that it is not primarily physical, but I honestly don't think he believes me (based on his comments). The situation would be pretty funny, if it wasn't heartbreaking.



this post was heartwarming, and with recent events i enjoyed reading the depth capable in people--but not necessarily, to be clear, the problems you are encountering (though, one could argue that such problems only exist due to the potential to even feel such things in life; it may be hard, but you are in fact lucky, as nothing comes without a price of sorts, and at least the upside to this particular cost is happiness). 


now, i wish i had some sort of advice to give you aside from the obvious (and maybe not so helpful), but i do not know him, yourself, or the situation either of you are in... 
the only thing that stands out to me is the reluctance that you approach this situation with, and it is completely understandable (i would not want to lose something in my own life that could make feel in such a way)... 
but, and i mean this as gently as possible--and please, completely ignore me if i'm overstepping my bounds and you were just using this forum as a sounding board for yourself--but... _if_ you feel so strongly about this, you have to find a way to speak to him about it. i know that's kind of scary, and that you don't want to ruin the rapport or damage the emotional atmosphere by speaking out, but by not doing so it's already being damaged. 
(i'm in something similar, not nearly as serious and maybe even childlike in comparison--tantamount to finding a way to tell someone how i feel about them, but thinking it would just hurt things, and being so tempted to just find release and intimacy in the other people around me, who, would be... most definitely intimate and "release-full", but not what i would want long-term; and not to mention that my own release for the sake of the moment + close friendship would likely not be the end-game for them that it would be for me, and that it would likely ruin anything with the person who actually makes me into a nicer person...)

feel free to tell me off, and i won't respond. that would be your right... but what you wrote was very sweet, and that actually makes me want to say something, or to help, even if what is stated is beyond "duh-obvious" to begin with. 

take care.


----------



## sittapygmaea

Thanks to both of you ^^ for taking the time to respond. 

@Donovan-- you were far from out of line with your response, which was quite thoughtful and kind. I agree with you that I should speak to him about the situation; probably by starting small, responding directly to something he says in the moment: explaining how it makes me feel without making it into a giant issue. 

I think I was overstating the asymmetry somewhat in my original post while in an angsty frame of mind. There is an undercurrent to some of his 'offhand' comments that especially troubles me, but the dynamic is not as lopsided as I suggested. I actually think he would be surprised to read what I wrote because it wouldn't be consistent with his perception of our interactions. I am definitely intense, in a jump-into-the-deep-end-not-knowing-how-to-swim kind of way, and not everyone works this way, or expresses love by these kinds of actions. He cannot meet me in mirror image behavior, and I know he finds mine overwhelming sometimes. I need to pay more attention the ways he shows love, honestly assessing how those work for me. And, again, I need to talk to him honestly about my own tender spots when he pushes up against them. How to broach these subjects honestly without undue disruption will require some thought.

I wish you the best with your 'similar' situation, by the way. 




Donovan said:


> the only thing that stands out to me is the reluctance that you approach this situation with, and it is completely understandable (i would not want to lose something in my own life that could make feel in such a way)...
> but, and i mean this as gently as possible--and please, completely ignore me if i'm overstepping my bounds and you were just using this forum as a sounding board for yourself--but... _if_ you feel so strongly about this, you have to find a way to speak to him about it. i know that's kind of scary, and that you don't want to ruin the rapport or damage the emotional atmosphere by speaking out, but by not doing so it's already being damaged.


----------



## Donovan

life has gotten inordinately more complicated. things are a logistical nightmare, but not impossible. it's going to take a change within myself to accomplish this .and honestly, the need for that 'change' has already been more and more conscious within me, only now there isn't an option other than to just quit or to give up... and that really doesn't sit well with me. if anything, this fuckup is more steeling than anything. 

but after it all happened i had two very disturbing dreams, back to back. they are subjectively 'disturbing'. i don't know if i can convey them in a way that will resonate with anyone else, but they made me feel more... _awake_, after the fact:


(1)zombies. always zombies, and always my mind trying to tell me something from the dreamscape... only this time i had others with me, and we were all in danger. we all felt that ice-clutch in your center, where on some primal level you know you're basically prey that can, at any moment, be plucked from this life. 
we were all trying to protect one another, but at the same time we all operated with a mentality that made one expendable if they were already as good as dead. don't grimace or feel a pang, just know that your turning away is necessary, not personal, and then run. 

we came from the open maw of warehouse, out of darkness, from its torn and gaping side. barely standing itself, the remnants delivered us all onto a rectangular stretch of concrete. some kind of man-made foundation in the middle of a wooded area. overcast in the way that mornings will be, and wet in the way winter greets us at the beginning of each day. 
we scanned our area, moving to and fro, not wanting to get caught flat-footed. someone took off towards the far right corner, and as soon as they made it off the concrete, that same person was picked off and ripped apart. their blood sent in opposing directions, as we, as a group, ran towards the opposite corner of what was left of the concrete; towards what was left of what was unnatural but safe, and into was natural, but wholly unpredictable known. but it took us from that black void we fled; from that place that spurred us to run into the open teeth of something indescribable. 

the scene changes and now it's not zombies or black shadows that moved us against viciously, but a group of other humans... i have no imaginary backstory on these people, but they meant us harm. even though they could work together as a singular unit without harm unto one another, they saw none of that same camaraderie or humanity in anything that was not them. 
getting away--from what, i don't know--but fleeing was important. so we fled. 
they found us. they step from behind trees that couldn't have hid them, from areas so perfectly placed that their appearance must be one's imagination. wearing hunting and wilderness gear they kill everyone with me. 
things narrow, and now it's just me and 'the other'. he attacks, but a wolf--_my wolf_, i can feel it, like it's a part of me--rushes him. the hunter grabs me/my wolf my the head and neck and begins to violently twist, but now, in that instant, i holding his weapon where none was before: in my hands. 
and i have to kill him before he hurts 'my wolf'. so i place the end of the shotgun to the space between his chest and right shoulder, and i fire. 


i wake up feeling shaken, in the way that only personal, unexplained and cryptic content from the back of one's mind give like sick present. i fall back asleep:


(2)when i was younger, about... i don't know, 3(?), i saw this movie called Tremors. giant, carnivorous, dune-like worm creatures that could burrow through ground at alarming speeds. if you ever saw the slightly and progressively worse sequels, you would have seen their metamorphosis: into something bipedal, much smaller, but hunted in packs. and eventually, into something that could fly. the dream followed these last two sequences somewhat...

the feeling, or intuition, the overall theme is doomsday. the sky's red and everything has that heady glow at sunset, but instead of being an aesthetic vision of sorts, the untimeliness of it all is off-putting--like you can feel from the corner of your eye, or deep in your gut, that the entire planet or foundations of reality as know it, are about to break apart. 
people are frantic and running in all directions, being pounced on left and right by the these eyeless and hunched two-legged things. with no arms they come in packs of three or more, and overwhelm those who are too helpless to survive. everything is chaos: shapes move about, people zigzag and scream and flail--they even attack each other, only to be maimed and dismembered, to be brought to a state no one should be alive to endure, but done so quickly the feat is still achieved and they are still conscious of their fate before they can succumb. 

now it's night, true night. no stars and no moon. i'm on a road i've been on in past dreams. same architecturally devoid, long rectangular structure off to the side, sitting branches of oak, with a flood-light that bathes a rising walkway, leading to the door. 
more people are coming. but they are together and not fearful. they are a small mob approaching. organized with mal intent. 

the scene changes back to a morbidly red sky, only now i'm at the crest of a large valley. a space that would be beautiful if not for that foreboding glow. atop this crest is a large, ornate house, and we are in the open courtyard to it's right. wrapped in wrought-iron fencing, "we"--quotes, because no one is actually there, even though i can feel the presence of other people--stand atop all of this as those creatures swarm below. 
there aren't any people down in the valley, only a roving mess of something that shouldn't exist. 

in the sky, the third metamorphosis, the large winged form of what that herd will become, flies above. like an armless dragon, or a snake equipped with stout hind legs and sturdy, lace-like dragonfly wings, it screeches. the sound is jarring, soul-jarring. the kind of utterance that makes peoples' spirits slip from their bodies, give up, and dissipate in pure void. 

it flies towards me, screeching its madness, and all of a sudden, that presence that i felt materializes into human forms. they are as motionless as i am, waiting to be eaten and to join with something, to become something, that should never exist. 
and then, my own "pet"--first a wolf and me at once, but now this horrific-thing and me at once, an embodiment of me--launches itself. right before they collide, my own creature turns and bites the head of our assailant off. it's head, and it's unnaturally long neck--in unrealistic fashion as if its gullet is some flaw in reality--is consumed in one swipe. 

it then lands next to me. where there should be eyes are only pinched folds of skin, vestigial fused pockets of flesh, and yet still it stares with one side of its head... turning that large, bony, misshapen head to the sky, it cries that unnatural scream and flies out of the roving mass beneath. 


these dreams mean something, i'm just not sure what yet. i've had dreams that are symbolic in nature my whole life, and especially when i'm either going through a change, or going through a life-circumstance that requires a change. it's eerie, and morbid, but even while writing it i can get a feel of how immediate phrasing--done without thinking--can illuminate whatever meaning there is to be had. 
this is an exercise really, but if anyone has any brainstorming to share, feel free.


----------



## 6007

Went out of town with MMM and Byron. 
Mmmm seems pretty depressed. He was recently dumped by someone he liked and I think he's just uncomfortable in his body like he's gained weight or something.
i feel bad; I can't do anything about it. I mean if you eat like shit and you're a fatass there's nothing I can do about it. You cannot outrun your fork. 
I think he's eating his feelings and stuffing them down.


----------



## kaleidoscope

Peel your heart like a pomegranate. 
Offer it to him, palms outwards. 
Say “eat.”

Watch him come away
stained red by you. 
You’re in his teeth.

He’ll kiss you with that mouth.


----------



## Eclipsed

Something scary I'm beginning to realize about depression is that your strengths become the weapons it uses against you. What you love becomes what you hate, and eventually what you fear most. But it never ceases to be one's only hope of salvation.

I often describe myself as a tortured soul, tormented and pulled in every direction by the sheer amount of feelings and thoughts I lock up inside myself. There's been a war in my mind ever since I can remember and I struggle not to let too much spill out into the world on a daily basis. The purpose of the battles I fight changes constantly, and I am beginning to think that war is something I simply cannot live without.

Because who am I if I refuse to care? Apathy seems to come easily to me only because my mental capacity is constantly overloaded, and that means I must pick my fights very carefully. I look like an apathetic bitch to most but I would die for anyone I love. It is rare for me to care for anyone enough to even worry occasionally about how they're doing, but I can't cut people out of my heart if they've already climbed their way in. I've tried and failed many times. It is simply unthinkable at this point. I am tired of trying to restrain my love and affection. It flows freely now and this makes me uncomfortable a lot of the time, but I am starting to like it. It is okay to show love. It was always okay.

I have always worried about somehow hurting other people. I think I am a good person at this point, but the darkness in me cannot ever be destroyed. The best it can do is shrink indefinitely. My soul is fire and my light is what casts the shadows. When I made that connection, I was so sick of pain that I chose to completely blot out the light and descend into utter darkness. Because there's no struggle in pitch blackness. Hopelessness, in a way, is peace. Or as far as I could get to peace, anyway. When there's nothing left to fight for, it becomes much easier to sleep at night.

But I never wanted peace. And I don't want to sleep anymore.

There will always be that single ember burning, keeping me alive and the hope that I may catch fire again someday. The things I love have nearly destroyed me, but I still can't live without them. Above all, I can't be anything other than who I am. I am the worst liar the world has ever seen because I choose to be. Nothing matters more than the truth. So I'm going to be brave, and I'm going to be myself. I told my best friend recently that the point of life and love is not to make sacrifices of ourselves- I maintain this belief. I can coexist and care for other people without having to give myself up.

I have found people and things to live for, and I may not be entirely happy, but I am certainly getting there. The pieces are falling together slowly but it is enough for me that they are falling at all.


----------



## Superfluous

Mini revelation appeared when I was 'under' at hypnotherapy Friday; I cling to my feelings.. dwell and obsess and push them on others. This stems from feeling rejected and invalidated when expressing my emotions and needs.. since I was very very young. The conflict I had was clinging to my feelings, yet not expressing them most purely due to pride. I spent the session pretty much crying and letting go of this pride. It was nice to understand everything.


----------



## Animal

@Eclipsed 
Sx/Sx indeed. And the firestorm inside you is beautiful and alive. I agree that you never have to give yourself up to love. If you do, it isn't love. <3


----------



## SheWolf

Animal said:


> Getting her to join could also be logical... from a certain angle..
> 
> plus he's probably lonely as fuck, and she's hot.


Seems to be a popular shipping but I can't get behind it. There's something kinda... weird about it for some reason. I mean, if I were in Rey's position, I probably would've joined him because... ya.... 

Speaking of Rey, I didn't really like her much. I am usually ALL FOR strong female characters. But Rey was an absolute Mary Sue in my eyes.


----------



## SheWolf

infinity paradox said:


> Actually I agree with Finn being a 6w7
> 
> but Kylo Ren seems like an image type. I want to say unhealthy 4w3.


Mmmm... I don't know. I think he's unhealthy and the 6 disintegration to 3 makes him look like an image type. He's far more obsessed with being a disciple of the Dark Side and looking up to Vader as a higher power to be lead by his own authenticity like a core 4 would.

I could almost see Finn being a 4w3. That whole "You looked at me like no one ever has before" speech seemed something like a heart type would say.


----------



## Animal

infinity paradox said:


> Actually I agree with Finn being a 6w7
> 
> but Kylo Ren seems like an image type. I want to say unhealthy 4w3.





ShieldMaiden said:


> Mmmm... I don't know. I think he's unhealthy and the 6 disintegration to 3 makes him look like an image type. He's far more obsessed with being a disciple of the Dark Side and looking up to Vader as a higher power to be lead by his own authenticity like a core 4 would.
> 
> I could almost see Finn being a 4w3. That whole "You looked at me like no one ever has before" speech seemed something like a heart type would say.


There is absolutely no way Kylo Ren is any kind of 4 core. I am not even convinced his last fix is 4. He's so explosive about his emotions, he seems more 2ish to me than 4ish. I'd go for 612 if it were up to me, but I can think about 614. I could even consider 1 core, very unhealthy 1w2.

However 4 is out of the question. If you want an unhealthy 4 - look at Loki. He is completely fueled by envy, but there's something more cold blooded and withdrawn. I wrote a long post about this in a facebook group months ago.. I'll see if I can find it. If not I'll try to recreate it.


Edit @infinity paradox @ShieldMaiden

I found my posts.

Dec. 22:

 About Kylo Ren, I don't think he's a 4, even though he's emotional and sad. Compare him to type 4 villains Loki and Viscerys Targareyan from GOT. And real well-known 4s - Michael Jackson, Prince, Marilyn Manson, PJ Harvey, Siouxsie Sioux. There's a hardness to all the 4s I listed, even the social 4 Michael Jackson.. some more fluidity when it comes to emotional expression, like it runs through them. Kylo didn't know what to do with his emotions, they took him over all at once. He had sad eyes, but not the underlying hardness of 4s. 4s are emotionally resilient. They can be pathetic in a sad longing, melancholy, nobody loves me, sigh, way.. but the more proactive type of 4 looks like the ones I listed. Kylo is not sitting on the windowsill longing for a better life, nor is he playing people's emotions 4 style, like Loki or Viscerys. His conflict is too black and white, too blatant. Like he FAILS to look into himself and find his origin, his true feelings. Which is the one thing 4s do best, understand their own feelings, even villains.
What tore him apart was a battle between light and dark. That suggests 1, and 1s have a disintegrating line to 4 so they can get sad. His sudden fits of frustration also suggest 1. But it's not quite right because he's a bit too hesitant when it comes to expressing his ideals; not gut enough. I think I need to learn more about his problem with his father... before I can figure out what really underlies this.. but at a first watch, 4 seems like more of a 'stereotype' typing than a solid typing for him.


----------



## SheWolf

Animal said:


> There is absolutely no way Kylo Ren is any kind of 4 core. I am not even convinced his last fix is 4. He's so explosive about his emotions, he seems more 2ish to me than 4ish. I'd go for 612 if it were up to me, but I can think about 614. I could even consider 1 core, very unhealthy 1w2.


6 and 1 are quite strong in him. I'd believe either one to be his core. His heart type is obscure, but I'm pretty convinced he has to have one. 



Animal said:


> However 4 is out of the question. If you want an unhealthy 4 - look at Loki. He is completely fueled by envy, but there's something more cold blooded and withdrawn. I wrote a long post about this in a facebook group months ago.. I'll see if I can find it. If not I'll try to recreate it.



Mmmm... Loki. ♥

I used to think he was 3 back when I had no real idea about Enneagram. But he's certainly a 4. His disintegration to 2 is all over the place. Manipulative, trying to convince others that he only wants to help/love them in order to get love himself... I don't know about his tritype though. In MBTI, I'd say he's an ENFJ.





Animal said:


> About Kylo Ren, I don't think he's a 4, even though he's emotional and sad. Compare him to type 4 villains Loki and Viscerys Targareyan from GOT. And real well-known 4s - Michael Jackson, Prince, Marilyn Manson, PJ Harvey, Siouxsie Sioux. There's a hardness to all the 4s I listed, even the social 4 Michael Jackson.. some more fluidity when it comes to emotional expression, like it runs through them. Kylo didn't know what to do with his emotions, they took him over all at once. He had sad eyes, but not the underlying hardness of 4s. 4s are emotionally resilient. They can be pathetic in a sad longing, melancholy, nobody loves me, sigh, way.. but the more proactive type of 4 looks like the ones I listed. Kylo is not sitting on the windowsill longing for a better life, nor is he playing people's emotions 4 style, like Loki or Viscerys. His conflict is too black and white, too blatant. Like he FAILS to look into himself and find his origin, his true feelings. Which is the one thing 4s do best, understand their own feelings, even villains.
> What tore him apart was a battle between light and dark. That suggests 1, and 1s have a disintegrating line to 4 so they can get sad. His sudden fits of frustration also suggest 1. But it's not quite right because he's a bit too hesitant when it comes to expressing his ideals; not gut enough. I think I need to learn more about his problem with his father... before I can figure out what really underlies this.. but at a first watch, 4 seems like more of a 'stereotype' typing than a solid typing for him.


Definitely agree. I don't see any sort of trace of envy in him, either. Not saying 4's are completely envious assholes, but let's be honest... envy is our fuel in a way. He's broodish, sure, but not in that 4 emotional swimming pool sort of way. He keeps seeking to attack his emotions, to get rid of them, 4's tend to wallow and even heighten their emotional experience.


----------



## Animal

Hm. I'm not sure I see Finn as a 4 either. I wrote that long post right after I saw the movie, and my memory isn't as good now. But I think I saw him as a 2 or a 6. Maybe a 2w1. The sweet variety though. I can't really see 4.... he was so touched that he was loved for who he is, but there was no central struggle with envy and identity. In fact, it would be a growth for him to grapple with his OWN needs and identity a bit, which would constitute growth to 4... so I could see 2w1 for him easily with a line to 4, and maybe a 6 fix.

I could still see 6 as a possibility too though. If I recall correctly he struggled with fear about breaking away from authorities. But that is human. I'd have to watch it again to get a better sense.


----------



## Animal

@_ShieldMaiden_
How do you type Fey in enneagram? I was a bit stumped.
I also agree she's a mary sue, so that's problematic when it comes to typing her.


----------



## SheWolf

Animal said:


> Hm. I'm not sure I see Finn as a 4 either. I wrote that long post right after I saw the movie, and my memory isn't as good now. But I think I saw him as a 2 or a 6. Maybe a 2w1. The sweet variety though. I can't really see 4.... he was so touched that he was loved for who he is, but there was no central struggle with envy and identity. In fact, it would be a growth for him to grapple with his OWN needs and identity a bit, which would constitute growth to 4... so I could see 2w1 for him easily with a line to 4, and maybe a 6 fix.
> 
> I could still see 6 as a possibility too though. If I recall correctly he struggled with fear about breaking away from authorities. But that is human. I'd have to watch it again to get a better sense.


Yeah, I agree. I own the movie, so I just rewatched it. It's kind of funny how he feels the need to "care" for Rey like she's some delicate little flower. His whole fixation on her is very 2-ish. He is very reactive though, making me think he's definitely got 6 in there. I'd say 26x. I don't know about the last one. I'd say he's an ENFP, too.


----------



## Animal

ShieldMaiden said:


> Yeah, I agree. I own the movie, so I just rewatched it. It's kind of funny how he feels the need to "care" for Rey like she's some delicate little flower. His whole fixation on her is very 2-ish. He is very reactive though, making me think he's definitely got 6 in there. I'd say 26x. I don't know about the last one. I'd say he's an ENFP, too.


Yeah, that makes sense to me.
Also I meant Rey not Fey. Lol, Fey is a character in my own book. >.< Or she was until I changed her name


----------



## SheWolf

Animal said:


> @_ShieldMaiden_
> How do you type Fey in enneagram? I was a bit stumped.
> I also agree she's a mary sue, so that's problematic when it comes to typing her.


I really have no idea. Her desires and fears are not really apparent. I wouldn't say she's an image type. Sometimes I get bits of 8 in her. 

Her Sue-ness gets me though. I mean c'mon. I liked her at first, but after she so easily won over Han Solo my first thought was what the hell? I mean he was definitely not so quick to warm up to Luke and Leia, for Christ sake. And her beating Kylo like he was a novice was ridiculous. Kylo is a highly Force-sensitive Skywalker that has had a good amount of training and this random scavenger who happens to be Force sensitive as well mops the floor with him through sheer determination and trusting the Force alone. Nah. Granted, Kylo was injured, and I'm clinging to the fact that if he was at full strength he would have whipped her. I found Finn a much more relatable character, even if he was overzealous and vaguely irritating at times. It seems like the writers were so focused on making Rey an appealing, strong female lead that they forgot to, ya know, flesh out a decent character with flaws, real fears, etc.


----------



## Donovan

it hit me today, while out with my roommate, that i am attracted to my complete opposites. this makes sense, but it's not my point. since they are my complete opposites, they are just as off-center or unbalanced as i am... i suppose everyone is, so even that is not my point.
they are off-balance in the ways i am not, and i am 'off' in ways they flourish in. this showed me that, when i take an 'objective' step back and actually look at things, that i am really not attracted to "them". not truly... i don't mean this in a negative way, but when compared to others they seem like children: naive or unwilling to put forth effort to change something in their life, too "go with the flow" as long as it caters to them, unable or unwilling to think for themselves. as far as theory goes, this should also apply to myself, the unacknowledged aspects of "me", that i cannot see. 
but maybe, what i can take from it, is that those aspects are not necessarily bad--that life can and will continue with meaning and purpose even without all of the mentioned fodder. 
since they excel in areas where they are socially friendly with the intention of preserving their selves, for the sake of making their lives' easier, and since they never see fault in another beyond their immediate moment, and they do not bother with anything that they find too taxing--instead taking everything by the very moment they are within--maybe those are the good aspects...? 


i'm not sure. i'm still at the point where they seem like children. even a lot of our conversations have been like, "what the fuck?", but what made me think of all this is the conversation i just had with another. someone who is driven, made a little weary by life and what she's trying to do, and filled with interesting stories of her job that would make other people cave. 
i felt way too intense with my eyes, but then it hit me: i'm actually not breaking eye contact and i'm fully paying attention to what she's saying--have i really not been doing this before now...? 
she had a sexy mercenary feel to her, which is far better than what i've been going for: sweet, unsure of themselves, delicate, wall-flowerish, no idea what's inside their heads or hearts because they probably don't know themselves... 

only downside: when her and her coworker were leaving, she walked up to me and stood there for a second, so i stood up to give her a hug, and we had that silent "oh" moment where we both just kind of stared at each other because she's a good bit taller than me. i don't care, i would definitely see her, or least meet up with her again... but it was kind of funny, lol.


----------



## 6007

I truly hate humanity and I am not coming back to this world when I die. It is pointless here and I hate people. 
Some are ok. I'm aware I suck too. 
I am aware sometimes I'm part of the fucking problem. Sometimes I'm thoughtless and unintentionally cruel. I hate it. 
Its a losing battle. No matter how much I care I can't be... I don't know. I can't be a competent person. 
Being human seemed to me to be a noble thing. But the more I see of humans the more I detest them. And part of me would laugh if someone would just blow up this planet already.


----------



## infinity paradox

As for Finn, he feels he is himself, regardless of what he was born into, although it is not in an overtly moralistic way. It's about having his own principles and being true to his real self and his identity but he MUST rebel in order to break free from what he was born into. The "you looked at me like no one else has" could be any type and I think 6s really value love especially as a bridge between the rational and the emotional that seems like a war within them all the time, so I don't see that statement or him in general as core 4ish. 

However the following his own principles and being himself no matter what, maybe 64x and a Fi user


----------



## infinity paradox

BTW The reason I can't see Kylo as a 6 is...I don't see any 6 throwing temper tantrums about not getting their own way and hiding behind a mask and creating a whole false identity to live up to evil grandpa's expectations like that. 6s sometimes have RAGE but it's usually about some internal or external war between logic and emotion, or some sacred principle being violated. Kylo doesn't have many principles, he is power-hungry for the sake of power and is blindly following a dogma in which he is a pawn to credit others with power and glory. I definitely see him as an image type. A 6 would calculate revenge but they would not deny themselves to that degree, as in, his relationship with his parents being completely destroyed and him feigning emotions AND using real emotions to purge himself of those parts of himself that are inconvenient for him, ie. his love for his father. He does it so that he can become the more perfect image.. The more perfect villian...He screams image type to me. I don't see the mental processes for him there, nor the principles or values of core 6.


----------



## infinity paradox

Even when Kylo takes off the mask, there is another mask on his bare face under that and he is incapable of accessing the truth. I think 6s see the truth about themselves and others even if they fight against seeing it. Jus sayin'


----------



## infinity paradox

@Animal @ShieldMaiden Kylo isn't envious? I see envy bursting forth from him. He wants to be the one chosen by the force, but he isn't, Rey is... He wants to be as strong and as notorious as his grandfather, Darth Vader but he isn't. He isn't warring internally between light and dark, he has already chosen his side, the side he acknowledges as the strongest and the easiest to gain power through, He is envious and as power-hungry as they come  

I don't really think it's a sexual motivation that is behind his drive to get Rey to join the force, he just wants anyone seen as a perceived threat that he can't eliminate on his side and he has to acknowledge that she is stronger with the force than he is, by far. (Also, as the audience should figure out, they are cousins. They may not know this immediately but Rey should realize it at the end by simple deduction). It's about light and dark for people like Rey and Finn, Kylo only sees the dark empty hole of his soul covered with the new identity he has made for himself.

...BTW in stark contrast, Finn only becomes who he is when he takes off the Stormtrooper uniform, removes the mask and claims his own soul. 64x. Trying to protect Rey and always do the right thing might be 1ish, but perhaps we have not seen enough of him to know. 641 seems possible for him IMO


----------



## SheWolf

infinity paradox said:


> @_Animal_ @_ShieldMaiden_ Kylo isn't envious? I see envy bursting forth from him. He wants to be the one chosen by the force, but he isn't, Rey is... He wants to be as strong and as notorious as his grandfather, Darth Vader but he isn't. He isn't warring internally between light and dark, he has already chosen his side, the side he acknowledges as the strongest and the easiest to gain power through, He is envious and as power-hungry as they come


Like @Animal said... compare him with Loki. Loki voices over and over about his envy of Thor. He's always talking about the unfairness life has given him and he kept this brooding within him for his entire life. Kylo is not jealous of Rey. If anything, he sees that her Force ability is something useful, that he can take her on as an apprentice. I didn't hear him ever voice that he wants to be 'the Chosen One" of the Force nor that Rey is either. Kylo wants to live up to his grandfather's status because he views that as a form of perfection. Enneagram 1's strive for perfection. 



> I don't really think it's a sexual motivation that is behind his drive to get Rey to join the force, he just wants anyone seen as a perceived threat that he can't eliminate on his side and he has to acknowledge that she is stronger with the force than he is, by far. (Also, as the audience should figure out, they are cousins. They may not know this immediately but Rey should realize it at the end by simple deduction). It's about light and dark for people like Rey and Finn, Kylo only sees the dark empty hole of his soul covered with the new identity he has made for himself.


I'm pretty sure the "sexual attraction" thing was a joke. Lol. It's not confirmed that Kylo and Rey are cousins, but it wouldn't surprise me.



> ...BTW in stark contrast, Finn only becomes who he is when he takes off the Stormtrooper uniform, removes the mask and claims his own soul. 64x. Trying to protect Rey and always do the right thing might be 1ish, but perhaps we have not seen enough of him to know. 641 seems possible for him IMO


He wasn't always focused on doing the right thing. What about when he was going to escape from the First Order with the mercenaries versus staying with the Rebellion to fight? There is certainly no 1 in Finn, I don't believe. There's no envious motivation in him, either.


----------



## infinity paradox

@Animal @ShieldMaiden

Also, I agree that Rey is hard to type...

I might guess that she has 2 in her tritype, hoping that someone comes back for her, being consumed by the thought of that and that being her main motivation: She doesn't express much interest in starting her own life with anyone else only thinking of finding those who left her behind/parental love, and clinging to the idea. 

The things she excels at are many: mechanic, pilot, some engineering is involved in there, physical agility ie climbing and stick fighting, bartering (although she doesn't seem THAT successful in that, but it is also illustrative of her environment). She obviously had the skills to fly one of those ships, and the cleverness to be sneaky, and the tits to do so, however she never tried to leave or escape her life of relative servitude/ meaningless existence of scavenging and working hard just to barely have enough to eat/sleeping waking up and doing it all over again. She finally acted when she had some driving force or reason literally come crashing into her life.
Based on her many skills and focusing on the subdued enthusiasm and happy-go-lucky attitude she has about being so naturally good with mechanics, I'd say she might have 7 in tritype with the strong line to 5 there supporting her logic Se type of process. Maybe 8 for gut fix, but it's hard to say. Calm independence; "stop grabbing my hand!"

...
I agree that Kylo uses Fe and Ti, not Fi, and he definitely looks Si to me. On the other hand Rey seems high with Se. In the surroundings all the time, observant and in touch with how her senses touch outward.


----------



## infinity paradox

ShieldMaiden said:


> Like @Animal said... compare him with Loki. Loki voices over and over about his envy of Thor. He's always talking about the unfairness life has given him and he kept this brooding within him for his entire life. Kylo is not jealous of Rey. If anything, he sees that her Force ability is something useful, that he can take her on as an apprentice. I didn't hear him ever voice that he wants to be 'the Chosen One" of the Force nor that Rey is either. Kylo wants to live up to his grandfather's status because he views that as a form of perfection. Enneagram 1's strive for perfection.


Yeah, but it doesn't help to type by comparison. There is no way Kylo is a core 6, he is strong with all the image type fixations. Very unhealthy image type. I don't agree that Kylo isn't envious. I agree that he is likely a low Fe type but I still say he's a 4. At the very least it's in tritype but I see a strong case for him being a core 4. Unless he is some type of twisted 3, because he does spend all his type trying to live up the other people's standards and fit the role there so that he can be successful/power/strong, but he puts all his effort into those things and it is only the image of succeeding as the void of his soul will never be filled. That's SP 3, not 6. I think there might be 8 in there as well.


* *







> I'm pretty sure the "sexual attraction" thing was a joke. Lol. It's not confirmed that Kylo and Rey are cousins, but it wouldn't surprise me.


Kylo Ren is Han Solo and Leia's son, Leia and Luke are brother and sister and Luke is Rey's father. That makes them cousins, and makes Anakin aka Vader their collective grandfather.






> He wasn't always focused on doing the right thing. What about when he was going to escape from the First Order with the mercenaries versus staying with the Rebellion to fight? There is certainly no 1 in Finn, I don't believe. There's no envious motivation in him, either.


I said he MIGHT have 1 in him because he seems to worry about what is right and wrong, whereas other characters more fly by the seat of their pants even though they are more calmly righetous in their principles, like Poe. Doing the right thing for Finn was protecting Rey, not staying and fighting with the Rebellion; I think that might be explained by Fi... I'd have to see more comparison of 1s who are Fe and 1s who are Fi to make up my mind, though. I came to the same conclusion about him being 64x, however. We agree on that


----------



## Animal

infinity paradox said:


> because he does spend all his type trying to live up the other people's standards and fit the role there so that he can be successful/power/strong, but he puts all his effort into those things and it is only the image of succeeding as the void of his soul will never be filled.


This is explicitly not 4. I'm not completely sold on his type but I am certain he's not a 4. To type him at 4 is to feed into a stereotype and completely miss the point of the type.


Fours don't try to live up to other people's standards or even recognize them as genuine.


----------



## Animal

@_infinity paradox_

Fours are disconnected from "origin" which means being one with everyone and everything. They struggle to find their own identity, their own personal origin - but they fail to grasp the "holy idea" that all of us come from the same source.

Trying to live up to the standards of others is not on the menu because they feel inherently disconnected from that. They feel like no matter how hard they might try to get love or acceptance that way, it wouldn't work as well for them as it would for others - so they have to find their own path, their own identity - which would make them lovable or noticeable, at least to someone. Fours may feel rejected and unlovable for being 'who they are' but they feel like being any other way would be losing themselves, and also, would be throwing themselves into a game they don't belong in and can't win anyway.

The four's identity is about finding what they feel is "themselves" and showing it to the world through their image. They can perceive themselves as being flawed at times, superior or inferior. But the worst flaw is to portray something that isn't genuine. Yet deep down , it's apparent that just BEING and not actively "finding and portraying what is authentic about themselves" is actually the only way to be genuine. Yet it seems impossible to give up the search for who they are and their own origin, and it seems disingenuous to portray something other than that to the world (though some fours don't mind keeping a large portion of it to themselves, or playing a role like when they're at work).

I don't see any of this in Kylo Ren. None whatsoever. He has envy. That's human. Just like fear is human. I wouldn't type someone at six because they're afraid. Nor would I type someone at 4 because they're envious.

4s are so aware of their ideal self and the gap between their "flawed self" and "ideal self" that they're striving to embody. They are unlikely to envy anyone unless that person embodies their highly specific "ideal self" better than they do.

2s are more likely to envy others because what they feel deep down is that they're unlovable. So they envy the love that others have. 4s envy is too specific for that and based in their own identity, the gap between their image or embodiment of their ideal self, and the ideal self they would like to become. They don't throw envy around like darts with a blind fold on. Their ideals are highly specific. Many 4s mistype at other types (myself included) because they feel like they envy "things that other people have" or "generic attractiveness" or things like that _less than other people do, _since those things are irrelevent where their own separate identity and its expression is concerned.


----------



## 6007

This fucking guy is trying to steal me away from Byron. 
Like... Why dude. 
Have some respect.

people are attractive to me in direct relation to how available they are. Married people and people with partners are not even worth a second glance to me. Single for a little is ok. Single for a long time is best. 

Sigh. 

Dudes who girlfriend poach are not my thing.


----------



## SheWolf

ripley said:


> This fucking guy is trying to steal me away from Byron.
> Like... Why dude.
> Have some respect.
> 
> people are attractive to me in direct relation to how available they are. Married people and people with partners are not even worth a second glance to me. Single for a little is ok. Single for a long time is best.
> 
> Sigh.
> 
> Dudes who girlfriend poach are not my thing.


I have ZERO respect for people who attempt to flirt with people who are taken. I would NEVER flirt with someone who I knew was taken. It's just flat-out disgusting.


----------



## Kintsugi

ShieldMaiden said:


> I have ZERO respect for people who attempt to flirt with people who are taken. I would NEVER flirt with someone who I knew was taken. It's just flat-out disgusting.


Behold, the beauty and splendour of Gamma Fi! 

I should also post a rant, I guess...

I hate shopping for wedding shoes. FML. T____T


----------



## SheWolf

The Perfect Storm said:


> Behold, the beauty and splendour of Gamma Fi!
> 
> I should also post a rant, I guess...
> 
> I hate shopping for wedding shoes. FML. T____T


You know it. XD I also could rant about cheating. I would never, ever cheat on my significant other. I would always discuss with my partner if I was unhappy. You would not see me trying to screw around with someone behind their back. That's absolutely disrespectful and once again, I also have no respect for anyone else who has done something like that.

Ugh. Shoe shopping. I go maybe once a year. I've literally been wearing the same two pairs of combat boots for almost year now. XD


----------



## sinaasappel

@Animal what do you think my enneatype is?


----------



## Animal

GIA Diamonds said:


> @_Animal_ what do you think my enneatype is?


Hm...
If I recall correctly I saw some photos on the visual typing thread that looked 3ish. I have never actually picked your type apart so I'm not sure but I'm willing to listen if you have a case. What is it that makes you type at 3, and if you have doubts about it what are they?


----------



## sinaasappel

Animal said:


> Hm...
> If I recall correctly I saw some photos on the visual typing thread that looked 3ish. I have never actually picked your type apart so I'm not sure but I'm willing to listen if you have a case. What is it that makes you type at 3, and if you have doubts about it what are they?


I'll get back to this a bit later (if I don't procrastinate) I'm in a bit of a time crunch lol >__< Hahaa


----------



## Animal

ShieldMaiden said:


> You know it. XD I also could rant about cheating. I would never, ever cheat on my significant other. I would always discuss with my partner if I was unhappy. You would not see me trying to screw around with someone behind their back. That's absolutely disrespectful and once again, I also have no respect for anyone else who has done something like that.
> 
> Ugh. Shoe shopping. I go maybe once a year. I've literally been wearing the same two pairs of combat boots for almost year now. XD


Yeah I've never cheated either. I would never tolerate it for a split second. 
Some people say "I would never tolerate X" and what they mean is they would tell the person off, make them "make it up to them"etc. I can understand if someone has kids, why they might try to work it out after cheating, or why they might stick around longer in an effort to make the kids' life better.... because then it's about more than just themselves. But for me, when I say I won't tolerate something (in a friendship or relationship) it means I'm gone. I'm done. No looking back. Cheating is one of them. That is not something to negotiate or discuss. I just shut off. Forever.

I tend to fall for honest men though. (The ones who weren't honest got weeded out long before they had a chance to cheat.) The only time I'm certain I was cheated on, the guy was probably raped. He was so drunk he remembers nothing and the woman basically confessed to me (when I became aggressive with her) that she climbed on him when he could barely move and he called her by MY name because he had no idea what was going on. I ended up breaking up with him with the clause that we could work it out IF AND ONLY IF he quit drinking. He was the love of my life before I met my husband who is my soulmate. It was painful and awful to have to break it off but I can't be with someone who drinks so much that things like that might happen even if that particular thing wasn't his fault. I need to trust someone is alert enough to maintain integrity. I kind of wish I was more proactive with helping him quit though. He was very traumatized and had no one. I tend to err on the side of being too quick to end it when my trust is broken than to work on things. Sometimes I wish I was more willing to work with someone. But I'm just not like that. I'm endlessly patient til my line is crossed. It's very hard for me to see any potential after that. 

Flirting is a whole different thing though. Of course, intentional flirting is obnoxious. But I have an intense personality when I get talking to someone. Many of my friends are men (though i'm VERY CLEAR with them, none of them want me, at this point most of them are married, and all of them know and adore my husband)... and also, I work with men, I make music with men, etc. I can't deal with someone glaring over my shoulder getting jealous that I might have intense discussions about a common interest. Flirting is difficult to measure. I think the line is crossed when I'm with someone and he talks with a woman often but doesn't introduce us or doesn't tell her about me. That's over the line; it's leading her on. But if my husband went out and was friendly to people, I wouldnt be staring over his shoulder nitpicking every interaction. He has a friendly, glowing and intense personality and I would never want to stifle his beautiful and glorious vibe. I trust him to tell me if someone comes on to him, to tell me if he's having any mixed feelings.. basically, bottom line is I trust him. I don't need to monitor his interaction style, and I expect him to smile and glow with people (men and women ) because that's what he does and that's why he's my kitty. :3

For me, an absolute NO in relationships is my interactions being micro-managed, accusations of things I'm not doing etc. If someone can't trust me to be honest about who I'm talking to, introduce him to everyone (I always do this), to be clear about my intentions (I am very honest, TOO honest and never shut up) and to interact at my own rhythm, carry my own charisma but without ill intent, I will get pissed off very fast because 1) I'm very honest so distrusting me makes you stupid 2) I'm extremely empathetic, so asking nicely, like "I'm a bit jealous of your bond with that person because you're both so into something that I know nothing about" will usually result in me including him in every conversation OR stepping back from the other person until he's comfortable... so outright accusing me of shit and not taking responsibility for his own feelings is NOT the way to go, and if someone is respectful to me and takes me as being honest but simply shares his feelings, I'm respectful in return 3) A certain amount of micro managing will rob me of my own personality and will to express myself, which is a huge part of who I am. I'm expressive. If someone can't allow me to be myself, and can't be himself with me, it won't work.

My husband and I are both kitties.. more like tigers. Neither of us would want to tame the other, even if we could. We love to watch each other glow. That's not to say we've never been jealous..we're both insanely possessive lol.. but we trust each other completely AND we own our own feelings. So any time a situation has come up where one was threatened, it's an honest, open conversation; not an accusation, and by the end everything is fine. We respect each other when things hurt the other, even if it's irrational; but we never accuse each other of lying or _bad intentions_. (Like deliberately leading someone on.) When people do that to me I'm done. Dictating how my personality should be, when someone DECIDED to be with me - or projecting their insecurities on me in such a way as to attempt to shape who I am.. will end in breakup real fast.


----------



## Animal

GIA Diamonds said:


> I'll get back to this a bit later (if I don't procrastinate) I'm in a bit of a time crunch lol >__< Hahaa


Cool no rush 

For what it's worth I've never questioned 3 for you so 3 is definitely the vibe I get. But would love to hear your thoughts


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

You know you're a true soul of the Internet when someone throws "major" shade at you. 

Now, to either call them out on their bullshit, or take the high road and ignore them? Hmm, this is tempting. :ninja:


----------



## Animal

To continue my rant from before,
it's amazing how many people will say they want to "be accepted as they are" but then constantly tell others how they should behave, who they should be, how to interact, what to wear, who to talk to, in what tone of voice to talk to them. I am a big fan of_ be the change you wish to see in the world._ If you want respect, treat others with respect. If you want someone to trust you, trust them (if you can't trust them, don't be with them). If you want someone to be honest and vulnerable with you, be honest and vulnerable with them. (Being vulnerable was excessively hard for me but I tried, I worked on it so I could be the kind of person who would deserve the kind of man I want. And when I couldn't be vulnerable, and relationships or crushes went awry, no matter what the guy did in terms of small things... I knew in the big picture, I was the problem, because I didn't have an open heart. My friends would say "you deserve better!" and I would INSIST that I don't because I failed to be vulnerable and to express how I really felt. If I am unable to express my needs, how can I expect anyone to meet them?)

Most people, I've noticed, are quick to pick others apart , but unwilling or unable to look at themselves.


----------



## SheWolf

Animal said:


> To continue my rant from before,
> it's amazing how many people will say they want to "be accepted as they are" but then constantly tell others how they should behave, who they should be, how to interact, what to wear, who to talk to, in what tone of voice to talk to them. I am a big fan of_ be the change you wish to see in the world._ If you want respect, treat others with respect. If you want someone to trust you, trust them (if you can't trust them, don't be with them). If you want someone to be honest and vulnerable with you, be honest and vulnerable with them. (Being vulnerable was excessively hard for me but I tried, I worked on it so I could be the kind of person who would deserve the kind of man I want. And when I couldn't be vulnerable, and relationships or crushes went awry, no matter what the guy did in terms of small things... I knew in the big picture, I was the problem, because I didn't have an open heart. My friends would say "you deserve better!" and I would INSIST that I don't because I failed to be vulnerable and to express how I really felt. If I am unable to express my needs, how can I expect anyone to meet them?)
> 
> Most people, I've noticed, are quick to pick others apart , but unwilling or unable to look at themselves.


PREACH.

Society: be yourself!
Society: No not like that.


----------



## Donovan

ShieldMaiden said:


> Enneagram 1's strive for perfection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He wasn't always focused on doing the right thing. What about when he was going to escape from the First Order with the mercenaries versus staying with the Rebellion to fight? There is certainly no 1 in Finn, I don't believe. There's no envious motivation in him, either.


i think 1's "striving for perfection" and "doing the right thing" are incredibly subjective. unless social--and even still, not always--they won't look towards what others see as "correct or just", they look towards what they believe is right (even if they're very wrong or unhealthy, or their view has become warped... just like any good villain ). 

i haven't seen the movie--i find it interesting to view others perspectives and attach it to my baseline understanding of types--but i wouldn't discount the typing of a one because they may appear to be selfish and dickish, for lack of terms. 
what i can see in those that i work with, one who is a horrendous she-bitch (who i adore by the way lol, even is she is unanimously hated), is that they have an idea on how things should be ran--even when it makes no sense--and they are ready to either lash out at, or reward those who fall on either side of that line. 
when stressed out, as they try to "make things perfect", they can resemble 6's vigilance, but overall it's like they are trying to protect something within themselves, that they are blind to, and this causes them attack that thing within that they have overlaid onto their own environment.


----------



## Donovan

Animal said:


> Most people, I've noticed, are quick to pick others apart , but unwilling or unable to look at themselves.


i think this is especially true... 

i'm still at the point, or have just gotten to the point, of realizing why i'm attracted to people that i am. and then going through the process of, when things go sour, seeing the other side of the coin of those qualities that attracted me... from there--and this at times seems like a misstep, but i'll find out--trying to see how even the other side of those qualities, from the 'negatively viewed coin', are in some way 'good' as well. 

i mean, there's a reason i'm drawn to these people, and there's a reason why they also aggravate me... i think it may be best to try and incorporate some of those qualities--or better yet, not repress them within myself--so i can ease up and enjoy life; actually witness that other perspective. 

long story short: i think i'm using relationships, crushes and the like as a way to see myself more clearly, at the moment. may not be healthy, but it does seem to be natural to me. it also helps to resolve whatever negative tension there is inside towards others (because honestly, while i can be jerk and absolutely love it when i feel that i'm "objectively right", i do not like feeling childish, and holding onto negativity in sphere that is comprised of personal choice, as opposed to incorporating more of "life"--opposing feelings and attitudes that allow you to relax and broaden your internal horizon, maintain a better direction throughout existence--and not doing so makes me feel childish... i really feel like this is the biggest problem i've ever had, and it's 'revelation' has only come about through relationships, so maybe it's not unhealthy, just my method at approaching things--with the added bonus that nothing is ever bright and shiny all the time: you have to swim through dark currents to get to the warm shallows, and be pulled back out yet again, just so those calm waters can actually be appreciated in full).


----------



## Kintsugi

Ugh.

I think I'm doing that thing again where I clearly need help/support but I'm all like, _"NO....BACK OFF. I DON'T NEED *ANYONE. *Stop trying to engulf and control me!"_

Why is it so hard to let people in? 

*sigh*


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> To continue my rant from before,
> it's amazing how many people will say they want to "be accepted as they are" but then constantly tell others how they should behave, who they should be, how to interact, what to wear, who to talk to, in what tone of voice to talk to them. I am a big fan of_ be the change you wish to see in the world._ If you want respect, treat others with respect. If you want someone to trust you, trust them (if you can't trust them, don't be with them). If you want someone to be honest and vulnerable with you, be honest and vulnerable with them. (Being vulnerable was excessively hard for me but I tried, I worked on it so I could be the kind of person who would deserve the kind of man I want. And when I couldn't be vulnerable, and relationships or crushes went awry, no matter what the guy did in terms of small things... I knew in the big picture, I was the problem, because I didn't have an open heart. My friends would say "you deserve better!" and I would INSIST that I don't because I failed to be vulnerable and to express how I really felt. If I am unable to express my needs, how can I expect anyone to meet them?)
> 
> Most people, I've noticed, are quick to pick others apart , but unwilling or unable to look at themselves.


Being vulnerable to someone brings out shame in me. And fear of course. I am ashamed to even let others know they have hurt me or had any effect on me. When it happens, a part of me wants to rage at them and make a big deal out of it, and another part is so damn good at masking it all. The other person has to mean a fucking lot to me in order for me to completely lose myself and show any vulnerability. And, honestly, I hope that never happens because it wouldn´t be pretty. But then again, I like to think I´ve become healthy enough not to let myself be consumed by that kind of anger and thirst of revenge again. But THEN AGAIN, health is not a constant thing to me.


----------



## Rala

Another case though, is when I don´t really give a fuck about the person, but I am bored so I choose to stir things up a bit. In this case, I make it obvious I am 78% joking anyway. :laughing::exterminate:


----------



## SheWolf

There's a woman in my area tha abused her dog. Left him for dead with a choke collar on a bridge. They believe he was shot and he was very thin. The woman wants him back and wants the person who called her in to be prosecuted. While I highly doubt they will be giving the dog back...

If I ever saw this woman, I am not exaggerating, I would beat her to death. Such crime is worthy of much harsher punishment than I'm sure will be given to her. When someone abuses an animal, I believe the exact same actions they did the creature be done to them. Lock them in a cage, starve them, beat them, whatever. It's not harsh, because anyone that believes they have such power of an innocent creature is not human and I don't want to be sharing oxygen with them.


----------



## 6007

Byron has gone to the dark place again, but intends to take down our entire relationship in the process. 
He told me to just go fuck other guys because I pointed out he hasn't helped me have an orgasm in three weeks. 
I didn't mean for him to take it so hard but gods he was like
why is this my fault. You can give yourself an orgasm. 

I was like... Ummmm. You have sex with me for all of three minutes and call it a day. No assistance? It's just bad manners. 
It doesn't mean you're a bad person Jesus. 

Then he called me an arrogant know it all, Because I had a blow up with MMM two weeks ago so that was fair game this time. And I had to atone for my marriage to dead robot bexause that was also somehow relevant. 

So yeah. 

He truly doesn't fight fair. He attacks my interests, strengths and passions. He has to make me small and contemptible just because he wants space or is upset. It isn't fair. 

I guess this experiment isn't going well. 

I really like and love him and enjoy having him around, but it's not safe for me to be myself. And if he hurts me and I cry, he doesn't help, he leaves me alone... Just like dead robot. 

I know we attract situations to heal things we haven't worked out but I don't know if this is ok.


----------



## Animal

Rala said:


> Being vulnerable to someone brings out shame in me. And fear of course. I am ashamed to even let others know they have hurt me or had any effect on me. When it happens, a part of me wants to rage at them and make a big deal out of it, and another part is so damn good at masking it all.


Yes... this is so true of me too. The more I care... the more I am prone to act like I don't care. That is my go-to response to feeling vulnerable: showing that I don't care, that I care less than the other person does. It's dishonest and twisted, I know... but it's my instinct. I wish I was more of the type to scream out "You hurt me, you bastard!" but I just lack the ability to be vulnerable enough to admit anyone hurt me. I do have strong boundaries but they manifest in the sense of finding a time when someone disrespected me (so that it's not about my feelings, it's about basic human decency) or pretending not to care at all, slipping away and making them chase me, or even showing off how much I don't care (walking by with a hot guy friend while wearing a sexy outfit, and barely tossing him a glance; making him wonder if I even realize he exists).

I know it's immature. I've mostly kicked this behavior because of a wake-up call I had with an ex about 10 years ago. You know the one.. he's in most of the songs on my album.

But just because I cut out some of the "i care less than you" games doesn't mean I manage to actually show that I'm hurt. I shut off. The people I was most obsessed with were the most likely to tell me they had no idea I ever cared at all.

Love is a different thing though. I've only loved two men and one is my soulmate .. my @_Sun Daeva_ .  In those cases I was more straight forward about being hurt... especially with my soulmate. In the first case I was 16 but surprisingly more vulnerable than I was with anyone before him or after him, but I still think I let out more "FUCK YOU's" than "You hurt me's" . It's very hard for me to admit I'm hurt.... in general.. and it's surprisingly, almost frighteningly easy with my soulmate. (In fact, it's harder to HIDE when I'm hurt or upset, if not impossible, and it's also nearly impossible to be angry at him, so I end up actually crying or being outwardly hurt.. a miracle!!)

It's not because I've "grown," because the last obsession I had, right before him, I had the same problem, where I couldn't be vulnerable or admit I'm hurt etc. It's all about finding THE connection that I needed in order to be vulnerable, so I really can't take "personal growth" credit on this one.



> The other person has to mean a fucking lot to me in order for me to completely lose myself and show any vulnerability.


Exactly.



> And, honestly, I hope that never happens because it wouldn´t be pretty. But then again, I like to think I´ve become healthy enough not to let myself be consumed by that kind of anger and thirst of revenge again. But THEN AGAIN, health is not a constant thing to me.


Yeah. That's the problem. I can look back through my past and find instances where I was able to show vulnerability, but then I build up taller and thicker walls as a reflex afterwards, so it's like, one step forward, ten steps back...


----------



## Immolate

ripley said:


> Staying awake tonight to watch Byron sleep.
> 
> I am really not allowed to date ever again.
> 
> i tried to break up and he threatened suicide and I had to drive around to find him. He was going to sleep in some bushes.
> 
> Jesus this is so dramatic.
> 
> Ive never experienced anything like it and I don't like it.
> 
> It make me miss dead robot. Having a person who doesn't ever have sex with me is better Than being held hostage by a crazy person.
> 
> Im going to attempt to find his mom on fb and talk to her.


I occasionally peek into this thread and I remember a post where you said he calmed down when you fought back, that he enjoyed some level of anger from you. Someone may have mentioned that it's a way to receive feedback that someone cares, validation, and although that's true, I also think some people purposely look to be hurt and sabotaged, perhaps because they feel they deserve to be punished, or because they don't have much experience with anything else. I only say this because I've experienced that cycle and I've also been with someone who threatened suicide, and I agree with @The Perfect Storm that it's important to set and maintain boundaries. I don't know what else I can offer except I hope things turn out okay and you take care of yourself.


----------



## 6007

lets mosey said:


> I occasionally peek into this thread and I remember a post where you said he calmed down when you fought back, that he enjoyed some level of anger from you. Someone may have mentioned that it's a way to receive feedback that someone cares, validation, and although that's true, I also think some people purposely look to be hurt and sabotaged, perhaps because they feel they deserve to be punished, or because they don't have much experience with anything else. I only say this because I've experienced that cycle and I've also been with someone who threatened suicide, and I agree with @_The Perfect Storm_ that it's important to set and maintain boundaries. I don't know what else I can offer except I hope things turn out okay and you take care of yourself.


Thank you. My self care is so so today. I am eating now but sleep was bad. 

I want to complain. 

I really really really wanted this connection to go differently. 
And for some ungodly reason I don't want to give up. 
I enjoyed being single a lot. But my god, having Byron in my life every day...
and he fit INTO my life so nicely... But then like... I just don't know how to fight like this, he shoved me last night and I was hurt and then he threatened Suicide. He's 32... But sometimes feels ... Much younger. It's hard to say. 

He has so many qualities I love. I don't want to see him leave my life. For whatever reason, he's the first person I feel this level of love but... The hard times feel harder than me. I feel weak and confused. I don't know what to do. 

I definitely wanted things to be sweet and lovely and supportive. But things just... They don't work for me. And I think it's important I learn that. And give up. 

Maybe in giving up I be alone but... At peace. 

Lord I love this man tho. He just... He is perfect. If he would take self responsibility he'd be honestly perfect for me. 
He says men in his family mature at 30. He is pushing it. Just dropped his coding course. He is so self sabotaging it is incredible to witness. Such a lovely man. Such a lovely man. But so so hurt.


----------



## cinnabun

What is it with us and labelling ourselves? Seriously, we're obsessed. We feel the need to define our gender, our sexuality, and whatever else. Why?

Like even just now, I'm browsing through the forums, and all I see are people who are desperate to know their personality type and shit. I'm just like...why? Who cares what you are? Does it really matter at the end of the day?

Like I was obsessed with it for a while too. When I found out about all of this, I was so interested and got really into MBTI and enneagram and would ask people to type me, and what their opinions of me were. I get it, I do, it's new and exciting and interesting.

But like...after I read about it for the 15th time, I settled on a type for myself and just kind of left it and moved on and stopped caring. My type might be wrong, some people try to tell me it is, but meh. I decide who I am, not you, and I already decided what kind of person I was a while ago...and I'm quite content with it. Now I just want to return to my little bubble and get on with my life xD.

Idk, I just think the whole need to define yourself is unnecessary. As long as you know who you are, it's all that matters. Now stop fretting and go out and have a good time lol.


----------



## Rala

Animal said:


> Yes <3 I love that people offer advice when I rant or vent but I also agree, it's really not about that, although I appreciate the gesture. Maybe it's a 4 thing, feeling like I just want to vent out and I don't want to be told "how to make it better" , I just want to be accepted with all of it, or be rejected for it, either works, as long as I'm real.


For me, being able to spill out my thoughts and feelings to anyone and them just listening to me is better than any advice in the world. I often know what to do to make things better but I gotta rant and rage first. Basically feel/live it all first.


----------



## Kintsugi

Rala said:


> For me, being able to spill out my thoughts and feelings to anyone and them just listening to me is better than any advice in the world. I often know what to do to make things better but I gotta rant and rage first. Basically feel/live it all first.


I'm like this as well but I've come to value and appreciate the importance of practical advice (probably because I was in a life/death situation and no amount of venting could help me).

This is why my partner is good for me. I am a tempestuous storm of emotions and he is my rock. Without him, goodness knows where I'd be right now. Life is about balance.

Still, I need to vent, it's a part of me (I've just found different ways of expressing it). People don't always understand, but it's who I am.


----------



## Ace Face

Rinnie said:


> What is it with us and labelling ourselves? Seriously, we're obsessed. We feel the need to define our gender, our sexuality, and whatever else. Why?
> 
> Like even just now, I'm browsing through the forums, and all I see are people who are desperate to know their personality type and shit. I'm just like...why? Who cares what you are? Does it really matter at the end of the day?
> 
> Like I was obsessed with it for a while too. When I found out about all of this, I was so interested and got really into MBTI and enneagram and would ask people to type me, and what their opinions of me were. I get it, I do, it's new and exciting and interesting.
> 
> But like...after I read about it for the 15th time, I settled on a type for myself and just kind of left it and moved on and stopped caring. My type might be wrong, some people try to tell me it is, but meh. I decide who I am, not you, and I already decided what kind of person I was a while ago...and I'm quite content with it. Now I just want to return to my little bubble and get on with my life xD.
> 
> Idk, I just think the whole need to define yourself is unnecessary. As long as you know who you are, it's all that matters. Now stop fretting and go out and have a good time lol.


You sent me on an interesting little thought path here. 

I think our ancestors would be appalled at how cluttered our minds are today. We keep our minds occupied with all sorts of things... the internet, the phone, work, personality theories, music, gossip, wealth, power, etc. These things are neither good nor bad until they become a focus. But why do we focus on them? Is it because we have to, or is it because we want to? Perhaps it's both. Whatever the reason, it seems that people have nearly all but forgotten what it is to be human... what it is to have an identity, a purpose. We all do what we must to get along in the world, but what are we losing in return--strength, will, identity, purpose, motivation, and the ability to prioritize what's important? All of this clutter and bull shit we've filled our lives with has aided us in losing ourselves, and then people wonder why they can't shake the feeling of being lost and out of touch with who they are. And of course, to avoid feeling empty, people end up stuffing the emptiness with all of the unnecessary clutter not realizing that it is what is preventing them from fully realizing themselves in the first place. And the cycle goes on forever until they end up lying on their death beds thinking of how empty they still are inside after all of those years. Pretty bleak picture, right? It doesn't have to be this way. Mindfulness is a skill that can be gained at any time. 

I'm no spiritual healer myself, but I would encourage anyone and everyone to take just one day off from everything, and see what happens. No music, no television, no computer, no speaking, no reading, no driving, no phone, no food, no friends, no family... nothing but you and your thoughts, and water to drink. Pay attention to what you're thinking, how you're thinking, and question why you're thinking it. The things you begin to realize about yourself will astound you. When the mind is free from distraction, and we have no escape from ourselves, shit gets real in a very quick minute. That's where the growth begins, and where the emptiness begins to fade.


----------



## Rala

The Perfect Storm said:


> I'm like this as well but I've come to value and appreciate the importance of practical advice (probably because I was in a life/death situation and no amount of venting could help me).
> 
> This is why my partner is good for me. I am a tempestuous storm of emotions and he is my rock. Without him, goodness knows where I'd be right now. Life is about balance.
> 
> Still, I need to vent, it's a part of me (I've just found different ways of expressing it). People don't always understand, but it's who I am.


What is your partner´s MBTI and enneagram?


----------



## 6007

I'm exhausted


----------



## Baby Spidey

Decided to delete rip me


----------



## drmiller100

Acceptance. 

I wonder what will happen next?


----------



## drmiller100

ripley said:


> S
> 
> i tried to break up and he threatened suicide and I had to drive around to find him. He was going to sleep in some bushes.
> 
> 
> .


there is a hotline for suicide. 
My answer when someoene threatens that is to take them to the hospital and let them deal with it. 

I empathize with you for caring though.


----------



## g_w

ripley said:


> So... Byron did something today that I'm not sure about.
> Last night he worked late. I texted him I am sleepy when can I get you. He responded soon.
> I picked him up. It was affectionate and sweet.
> Brought him home. He wanted to decompress. He smoked weed alone and watched anime for an hour.
> I was in bed hanging out.
> He came to bed. I was happy to be able to cuddle and sleep.
> He was feeling me up so I asked
> do you want sex? I thought we were going to sleep...
> he said
> it's ok we can go to sleep.
> 
> So I went to sleep.
> This morning he was cold and physically distant. Barely talking to me.
> I asked what was up and he said he was upset I didn't have sex with him.
> I was like
> 
> me: I asked you if you wanted sex. You said it was ok.
> him: you couldn't tell?
> me: no. I'm not a mind reader. That is why we have words. You've fallen asleep mid cuddle before so I can never tell with you, if you're truly frisky or just sleepily groping me.
> Him: I'm just not going to say anything (he says this every fight).
> Me: I'm not mad at what you said. I'm glad you told me what is wrong. But I don't like how you're treating me. It's like I have to know what you want Because when I ask you, you don't tell the truth. So it just seems like I have to fuck you whether I want to or not, because if I don't, I get in trouble.
> 
> Like. Fine I get being disappointed. But what I don't get is being cold and withdrawn and then basically punishing me for being sleepy. I waited up, I gave him space, I asked him what he wanted. I don't know what else I could have done.


Hazarding a guess, he was inferring from the time, or the inflection in your voice when you asked, that you really weren't wanting to have sex with him, not right then, not that late. But at the same time, he felt like he wasn't allowed to ask or press for it right then;
it's not so much straight out-and-out miscommunication, as it is each person trying to be generous for what they think the other one wants, but then each person notices what the *other* one is doing, and tries to be noble and relieve them. With the semi-tragic, semi-farcial result, that nobody really gets what they want, but both parties end up feeling vaguely ill-used.

(Shakes head wonderingly.)

Ain't relationships *grand* sometimes?

(They're not always 50-50. Sometimes it happens that *both* partners need to lock themselves in the bathroom with a good book and be left *ALL ALONE* (TM) at the same time...in such cases I recommend one takes the bathroom, and the other goes out for a long cup of coffee -- unless it's midnight, and all the coffee places are closed, in which case scrambled eggs in front of the TV usually work well.)


----------



## 374714

You mean not everyone is willing to connect on some kind of intimate level (energetic, emotional, sensual, spiritual, poetic, etc). . .right away! How weird and confusing!


----------



## 6007

I just can't decide if Byron and I don't communicate well together or what but I am fraying. 
I don't know if it even matters what someone intended if connection to them sickens you. My stomach feels awful. 
I was sharing that my family members have a way of saying things that is unsupportive but takes root in my mind like a seed. 
"Apple doesn't fall far from the tree."
me: what do you mean
him: you have the same power
me: ...
him: you aren't unsupportive but you have the ability to say things in such a way that they do the same thing. 
Me: ...

i left the room and came back 

me: I would like to talk to you about what you said... Did you mean to hurt my feelings?
him: no 
me: you said I was just like my family members after I told you they hurt me
him: well you are you shit on my dreams all the time 
me: earlier you said I was supportive now your saying I shit on your dreams all the time
him: I didn't say all the time 
me: YOU JUST DID... So basically you ARE trying to hurt me. *leaves room* *falls on office floor* I can't get up. I feel wounded as fuck.

like... Is he just saying shit to say it? Is he being helpful? Is he trying to hurt me? All I do know is what he initially said, after confiding in him... It hurt so bad. I had to go for a walk and sit alone and I am still fucked up. I'm already thinking about how I can avoid him for the next two weeks, because I want a break but he lives with me.

what is odd is I told him before this conversation that I'm so excited he's pursuing his dreams of coding and that I want to support that. 

I I am so confused.


----------



## Animal

lets mosey said:


> I occasionally peek into this thread and I remember a post where you said he calmed down when you fought back, that he enjoyed some level of anger from you. Someone may have mentioned that it's a way to receive feedback that someone cares, validation, and although that's true, I also think some people purposely look to be hurt and sabotaged, perhaps because they feel they deserve to be punished, or because they don't have much experience with anything else. I only say this because I've experienced that cycle and I've also been with someone who threatened suicide, and I agree with @_The Perfect Storm_ that it's important to set and maintain boundaries. I don't know what else I can offer except I hope things turn out okay and you take care of yourself.


It was me who said that, and I completely agree with this. To speak for myself I do have strong boundaries. I've been exceedingly (emotionally) unhealthy in my life and also very healthy, and right now I'm somewhere in between. But the one thing that never left me is boundaries. They actually get even stronger when I'm unhealthy, as in, I won't put up with ANYTHING. When I say "I won't put up with" I don't mean I fight and argue about my point. I mean, I slam the door shut and get that person out of my life. Instantly. Sometimes I'm gracious enough to explain why, sometimes not.

First of all just to be clear, I do think it's 100% crucial to have boundaries.
I was explaining that some people feel better from getting a reaction, but that does not mean it's healthy. I also want to mention now that threatening suicide, and the other ways he is acting, are not something I would tolerate.

I've had men threaten suicide and I told one of them "Do you want me to call the cops or your mom?" I called his mom first. Next time he tried to get in touch with me I called the cops and got a restraining order.

Another, I told him "good, if you kill yourself you'll be out of my way" and hung up the phone.

I don't put up with emotional manipulation.

That said, while he himself may be over the top, I do think it's relatively normal to want to get an emotional reaction to know someone cares, at times. (I have two psychiatrists for parents for what it's worth, and they would agree that it's normal too - although, sharing emotions is not the same as fighting, throwing things, making threats, etc.) However, the way @_ripley_ described her behavior toward him, it seems she is constantly checking in to find out how he feels and what's on his mind, so she is showing him plenty of care and it's never enough for him; he wants everything exactly the way he wants it, and he is being impossible.

Just my opinion. And I wanted to clarify that I have never tolerated abuse or emotional manipulation (such as suicide threats) in my own life. But I can understand if someone seems to not care at all, wanting to know that they care. This exists on a healthy scale and on an unhealthy scale. Byron seems to be on the unhealthy scale. And @ripley seems to be showing him she cares anyway, so in his case it's just absurd. 

I was simply trying to explain where he might be coming from, in his twisted mind. And that, even a healthy person might feel better once they get a reaction from someone who they feel (rationally or irrationally) didn't care about them. 



drmiller100 said:


> there is a hotline for suicide.
> My answer when someoene threatens that is to take them to the hospital and let them deal with it.
> 
> I empathize with you for caring though.


Yeah, my response to guys saying they can't live without me etc, is, "Then don't." If I'm breaking up with them it means I don't want to be with them. Any manipulation beyond that point is not worth my time.


----------



## Animal

*Dramatic avatars*.. dun dun dun


----------



## Daeva

Animal said:


> *Dramatic avatars*.. dun dun dun


LOL! :laughing:


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

Animal said:


> *Dramatic avatars*.. dun dun dun


I'm blushing :untroubled:


----------



## drmiller100

Animal said:


> It
> Yeah, my response to guys saying they can't live without me etc, is, "Then don't." If I'm breaking up with them it means I don't want to be with them. Any manipulation beyond that point is not worth my time.


breaking up sucks, and people get hurt, and I try to be patient. I don't really feel their feelings - Animal and I have talked about this before. I just flat don't feel other people's feelings, and my own are not very important in general when i don't want them to be. I can go to funerals to be supportive - costs me nothing emotionally. 

I can help people get into drug treatment. I've fetched people out of abusive places - I really enjoy that, but try not to let my joy show cuz no one else seems very happy at the time.

When someone pulls the old suicide game, I hand them the card for the suicide hotline. When I was younger, I'd say "Need a sheet?" They'd say "For what?" And I'd say "make less of a mess to clean up".


----------



## drmiller100

ripley said:


> I just can't decide if Byron and I don't communicate well together or what but I am fraying.


unsolicited advice. 
Once upon a time I fell in love with an awesome lady. We had communication problems. I'm an 8, and my gift is TRUTH. I want it, and the more I like someone, the more I'll tell them my truth.
She is a 7, and her gift is "kindness". She'd work pretty hard to say things kindly, and if it hurt, sometimes she wouldn't say it. Which pissed me off.

So, I'd hurt her by my brutally honest words. And she'd hurt me by not telling me directly stuff. 

And then we'd even interpret words through our filters. I'd say something complementary, and she thought I was saying it to be nice/kind. So, she underestimated some things i said.
On the other hand, I'd sometimes not catch hints.

It's tough. No doubt about it.


----------



## Neokortex

The Perfect Storm said:


> It doesn't exist, lol.
> 
> Humans are flawed, period.


Then I wish to be able to see a time when women would court to men and they would ask to marry them.


----------



## Doll

QueenOfNight said:


> Its not that quite that easy, and it's not just romantic relationships. It seems like I'm the person people throw to the side all the time.
> 
> Oh trust me, I do. I occupy my time with other pursuits 90% of the time. But after awhile, it starts to creep up on me. Being 4 sx with a lack of intimate relationships is maddening. I will continue to keep going but that's what this thread is for. Ranting, venting, etc.


My biggest and most devastating experience in life is feeling left out. I hate it so much that sometimes I even look for one little tiny sign of it - and the second I do, I withdraw emotionally from the relationship. It makes it hard to keep friends. I have to be the most important person, even if they aren't mine. 

I hate it.


----------



## Kintsugi

Neokortex said:


> Then I wish to be able to see a time when women would court to men and they would ask to marry them.


Why does it matter?

Don't get hung up on details. 

Life is pretty much what you make it.


----------



## Neokortex

Eclipsed said:


> There are so many things I still don't understand about myself. If I'm so "intense", then why do I feel like I don't even exist most of the time? Why do I struggle to feel at all and choose to lose myself in gluttony if I'm really as strong and self-aware as everyone says? (...)
> I find it ridiculous when people say that I, as a type seven, run from my problems or ignore the negative. I don't. The real issue is
> that I choose to ignore nothing, and in turn fall prey to my most primal instincts.
> 
> (...)
> 
> I feel disconnected from my own mind a lot of the time because there is no balance to be found in my thoughts or feelings. The universe corrects itself by cutting off my access to both emotion and rationality. I realize that it's not possible for one person to shoulder the responsibility of one's whole self, but I still keep trying. I can't do anything else, and I don't know if I need to change. I just want control, and in seeking it, end up at the complete mercy of myself.


Feels a lot like (the latter, I mean) what David Brooks self confessed in the intro of his _The Road to Character_ book. When I was reading _The Social Animal_, I started to think he was an ENTP.

Anyways, as an E8 last, what's your gluttony? What do you define as your most primal instincts?

You have a 4w3 in the middle, doesn't that let have some emotions going?

Do you sleep at all? xDD

There's a new ENTP woman posting videos, So Melicios, I wonder whether you guys both share the same 7w6.


----------



## Neokortex

The Perfect Storm said:


> Why does it matter?
> 
> Don't get hung up on details.
> 
> Life is pretty much what you make it.


I guess it does, since i think I'm as much afraid of myself as you are.


----------



## Kintsugi

Neokortex said:


> I guess it does, since i think I'm as much afraid of myself as you are.


Of course, you are human.

It's okay.


----------



## Animal

Neokortex said:


> Then I wish to be able to see a time when women would court to men and they would ask to marry them.


I met my husband @_Sun Daeva_ on perc. We had been spying on each other mostly from afar for about a year. Finally, after a long silence we started talking and emailing. We were talking about how we want to go away, and he dropped the hint "I'd love to explore the world but I have no one to go with.." .... but only after I told him he was good looking (and I put it in the most neutral context possible, haha). We poured each other's hearts out over the course of a few days on email; all our problems, everything wrong with us; really understood each other.

I wrote back something like "Stop teasing me... let's go right now!!" regarding this "dream vacation." Then I told him to get on skype immediately. 

As soon as he got on skype we planned for him to come here. Since neither of us are rich, I told him he should come to my house instead because then he can stay longer, and it's cheaper than a vacation.

A month later he got here, in late July 2015. He told me "I love you" after three days. I almost responded "Let's get married!" But, I realized it's rude because he's close to his mother and she's overseas and I hadn't even met her yet. So I bit my tongue. Keep in mind I am usually the kind of 'shy' that will obsess over a guy for years and write books and albums about him but never tell him, and I could barely respond to @_Sun Daeva_'s posts for the first year and was stiff and shy whenever we spoke, until I felt like I could pounce. But in this case, the only thing that stopped me from saying we should get married was being courteous to his family. 


By the end of the week, however, I couldn't hold it in... I _informed him _that we were getting married and he was staying here for the allotted three months (he had tickets for two weeks, but legally can stay for 3 months) and I was going back to Belgium afterwards to meet his family. He didn't protest. Soon enough he seemed really excited about it and kept making sure I really meant it. 

We got married Valentine's Day this year.



The Perfect Storm said:


> Life is pretty much what you make it.


^ THis.


----------



## Animal

The Perfect Storm said:


> So, I got married.
> 
> I don't know what else to say. :blushed:


How was it?!!


----------



## Kintsugi

Neokortex said:


> Then I wish to be able to see a time when women would court to men and they would ask to marry them.


It doesn't matter. 

Men, women, whatever.

just be who you are.


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


----------



## mimesis

The Perfect Storm said:


> So, I got married.
> 
> I don't know what else to say. :blushed:


Bless you love!






/eurovision


----------



## SheWolf

The Perfect Storm said:


> So, I got married.
> 
> I don't know what else to say.


Congrats dear  hope it went well


----------



## drmiller100

Neokortex said:


> Hey, Mr. Rooster!
> It says you're ENTP. Isn't "Truth" for ENTPs relative? I always end up endlessly debating the truth when I wind up with some ENTP. xD


entp's can argue anything from any position, and switch roles and gears instantly. Ne and Ti are a powerful combination for arguing off the cuff. 

8 is something else. ENTP 8 is a bit rare. And, add to it I'm older than most here.....

Truth is a funny thing. There is your truth, and my truth, and they could both be absolutely valid, yet conflicting. 

If I don't like you, I won't waste my time explaining my truth, nor waste the time to listen to understand your's.


----------



## Neokortex

The Perfect Storm said:


> It doesn't matter.
> Men, women, whatever.
> just be who you are.


I am who I am. I am human. It does matter. Life is pretty much what others make of it for us as well.


----------



## Neokortex

Animal said:


> I met my husband @_Sun Daeva_ on perc. We had been spying on each other mostly from afar for about a year.


DD I just finished watching an episode of X-Files. Spying on each other xDDD. LOL. Did you learn afterwards that he had been too spying on you?



Animal said:


> Finally, after a long silence we started talking and emailing. (...)
> Keep in mind I am usually the kind of 'shy' that will obsess over a guy for years and write books and albums about him but never tell him, and I could barely respond to @_Sun Daeva_'s posts for the first year and was stiff and shy whenever we spoke, until I felt like I could pounce.


Guess I'm either too much Sx (w7) to hang around the forums or I'm too much of an E6 conservative minded to believe in chemistry over digital letters. A guy told me he got his girlfriend over some clan membership in the multiplayer side of Jedi Academy (she'd been on the server with us). It hit me right in the face that all that time I had been trying too hard, going out with all kinds of folks that I didn't quite like. It just sounds so unbelievable that you could be able to be interested in someone over some messages. Probably a for language barrier, but usually I'm not. It's like, people communicate less than half as much information in a message than I do. They seem less alive and some even fake. I'd gone chatting as well but it's just, I dunno, too much youngsters, too much into their 1st world middle class fantasy worlds. And I'm just too goddamn intense trying perfectionisticly to dissect the truth from each one of them.

You mentioned that long silence. Like, without having rapport, reciprocity, how would you know that he's the right one to obsess over? And it begs to be asked: if you couldn't even respond to his posts, then how did the whole conversation start? He broke the ice, didn't he? I read your post about your former... ehm, spark. Now I also remember a vague indication of your age. I'm almost 27. And that bit about your shyness, fantasizing and producing the tribute material to me it sounds like a teenager's infatuation and projections. Don't wanna judge you here, don't get me wrong. Who knows what stuff you had gotten through. My life may be totally different. It's just that, if I were to receive a girl from abroad, even if she was another infp or enfj, I would still not be sure that I would be able to get to know that person in 3 days, let alone through skype and chatting. Isn't this something rather about your Sp blind spot?

Whenever I'm with a girl, I warn her beforehand about my... darker sides... but here's the thing... I know that it has a life of its own. I have buttons that I don't know exist and have half a clue should she find them and start pushing them what would happen.



Animal said:


> Since neither of us are rich, I told him he should come to my house instead because then he can stay longer, and it's cheaper than a vacation.


 Oh yeah, I've just arrived back from the U.S., more than a week ago. I'm not sure about the currency difference, I guess Belgians use Euro, but I think it's the same there as well, rural side = lower prices, so it sounds fairly reasonable to not go broke on the currency difference of the dollar and rather have him stay at your place (hope you had cleaned up! xDD). But then again, not being rich is not equal with being poor. D


----------



## Neokortex

drmiller100 said:


> entp's can argue anything from any position, and switch roles and gears instantly. Ne and Ti are a powerful combination for arguing off the cuff.
> 
> 8 is something else. ENTP 8 is a bit rare. And, add to it I'm older than most here.....
> 
> Truth is a funny thing. There is your truth, and my truth, and they could both be absolutely valid, yet conflicting.
> 
> If I don't like you, I won't waste my time explaining my truth, nor waste the time to listen to understand your's.


But Mr. Rooster!
How does that fall in line with that case you mentioned with a girl? Should I infer the opposite then, that if you liked me then you'd cock-a-DOODLE-DOO!! all your *TRUTH* all over me?


----------



## drmiller100

Neokortex said:


> But Mr. Rooster!
> How does that fall in line with that case you mentioned with a girl? Should I infer the opposite then, that if you liked me then you'd cock-a-DOODLE-DOO!! all your *TRUTH* all over me?


what do you think of my sig? 

Btw, you can hit the "thank" button if you ever find a post of someone else's you find value in.


----------



## Baby Spidey

At the height of my dysfunctional upbringing, there was a point where I broke down screaming at my parents because they were trying to make me clean my room, and I was so against it because my room was the last thing I was able to somewhat control. I was only comforted then by it being messy because I knew I created that mess.


----------



## Eclipsed

_A bridge splits November's sky
I'm in two halves inside
This is the past right here
I choose to leave it here_


----------



## Neokortex

drmiller100 said:


> what do you think of my sig?
> 
> Btw, you can hit the "thank" button if you ever find a post of someone else's you find value in.


I think it's debatable.  So... you evaded answering the question... bc you're not a critic, right?


----------



## 6007

There was a sudden death in my family. 
I found out in the middle of being in a date with Byron and he brought me home. 
For the rest of the day he slept and I worked. He kindly picked up dinner and we enjoyed a nice talk and being cuddled up on the couch. 
Unfortunately he wanted to get frisky I think and since I wasn't into it (he wanted me to take off my sweater or some shit and I was like dude just let me be) so he physically withdrew and gave me short answers and of course didn't hold me at all in our sleep. 
This morning he just said bye and left early, no idea where he went. No hug or kiss or explanation. 
Naturally I had an enormous meltdown and sent him a series of aggressive texts. 

and apparently he attempted to kill a cockroach in my bathtub but he didn't finish the job so he left me a half dead cockroach surprise which was really great to find.


----------



## Animal

I feel so loved :crying:

I have a serious chronic illness and I have mentioned that on forum a million times, and the impact it had on me - trauma, losing my voice etc. But when it comes to symptoms that are ongoing, I rarely mention them. I am like this IRL too. @*Sun Daeva* even mentioned that, although we are married, close, live together, tell each other everything..... I rarely discuss my symptoms, pills etc except in a general sense. I never ask for help or complain about symptoms day to day even if I own the illness as part of my general life experience and personal tragedy (such as talking about it in a general sense online). I don't like boring people with descriptions of my medical needs day to day, with what I need to do by routine in order to take the right pills, with the consequences and side effects of meds, with the choices about them, etc. I'll tell him all about my inner life, but I don't have much desire to talk about that - I handle it myself, and it's my problem, not his; and I like to keep it that way, and for my identity rather than these mundane routines and complaints to be at the forefront of my bonds.

Illness is part of my life struggle and I'm not private about that, but when it comes to actually showing that I'm sick, I'm like a cat; I'd rather be sick in a corner under a bed and not be seen that way. I'll talk about the general gyst in retrospect, and how it affects my inner life, my self-expression, etc; but being a victim or a dependent is not a comfortable position for me.

Today, though, it was unavoidable. And he held me and made food for me and kept asking if I was ok. I felt like I could ask him for things I needed, like water or whatever.. because it was hard for me to get up.. although it's a little embarrassing, but he kept telling me that I shouldn't hesitate to ask..because he knows how I am, and how much I hate asking. He didn't smother me with questions or pity, but he also made himself available. He asked just an hour ago "How are you feeling?" and I told him "I feel loved."

I feel so comfortable co-existing with him. It's the first time I've felt that way. I still have my autonomous character; so I'm still not going to overload him with my daily symptom or medicine list, but I don't feel like I have to bury myself under the bed or try to do everything myself when it's possible but genuinely difficult. I am impressed with how he handles me, but what is most surprising is that somehow he has won my trust to the point where I allow him to handle me. I never thought this amount of openness and willingness to depend on someone and show myself bare was possible. And there is no part of me that thinks that after seeing me this way, he will love me less, or feel annoyed, or find me to be a burden. Which is also hard to believe, because that is usually where my mind goes when things like this happen.

I guess this is what love - and trust - feel like.


----------



## Ace Face

I have made great strides in my spiritual life. I have journeyed deep into my own thoughts, and I've pondered my actions and behaviors. One of the topics I believe would be beneficial for me to explore right now is... you. I don't want to leave any rock, however small it may be, unturned. I have a lot of care, and I put a lot of energy into caring about the things I believe are worth the energy and time. You most certainly are not one of those things I care about... not even in the slightest, most minuscule way. Truth be told, aside from the thought I've chosen to give you now, you very rarely cross my mind, and when you unexpectedly do pop up on occasion, you get swat down so very quickly. When other people bring you up, I can see them looking at me just waiting for some little glimmer of a reaction. They are often disappointed when they find that my face, my mood, and my attitude don't change one bit. I don't become uncomfortable, I don't become angry... I don't become anything. I realize that you are mentioned, but I truly just don't care. You're not worth the energy it takes to care. Contrary to popular belief, I don't hate you. You're not important enough to hate or give much thought to at all. To give you my thoughts would be to give you my energy... my power. You don't deserve my thoughts, energy, or power. The funny thing is that I don't avoid thinking about you. I don't avoid thinking of you at all. You're just literally so unimportant to me that even on the rare occasion you are thought of, I very quickly remember how little you matter, and go on about my day. You're nothing more than an occasional fleeting thought... acknowledged for just a brief moment, and then filed away to be forgotten until something in this world triggers up an obscure memory of you at random. For you, I feel nothing... because you are nothing at all to me. This is the most thought I've given you... probably ever. And it's the most thought you're probably ever going to get. Beyond this, I have nothing for you. And honestly, this wasn't even for you. It was for me. Like I said, I want no stone left unturned on this journey I've begun. Every facet I can think of will be explored for my own personal gain. I'm not sure what I've gained here, but I have certainly told my truth. I suppose that's reward enough.


----------



## peter pettishrooms

I still kind of feel bad that it's taking me forever to graduate. However after much reflection, going against my father's wishes was a wise and logical decision. As much as it would have been nice to earn my degree earlier as he had hoped, I had a lot of growing up and basic life preparations to do before I went back to school after a disappointing drop-out. I have grown to be thankful for all the things and people I have in my life at the moment. Had I made even slightly different decisions in the past, I wouldn't have half of the things that I strongly appreciate.


----------



## Sygma

I can only feel soft with someone I wholeheartedly care about, be it in a friendly way or a closer one. I wish I could display the patience, consideration, care and all of that to total strangers, or to the face of the world at all times.

My Fe began to activate hardcore like, two years ago and it began to make me feel in such an extreme fashion at times, which really isn't something I'm used to. I've always showed the stal-wartness. The rock. All that stuff. So here I am, thinking I'm one of these devils, purposedly putting high standards on everything while faking that it is not the case. Constant mind games. Constant power play. And if you go through, you'll have the angel on your side.

Wouldn't it be easier and more genuine to just be the empath, now that I feel in a much deeper fashion, now that I can be triggered easily ?

Of course not. People need to work for it. People need to climb that wall, and fucking deserve the best I can give to them. The devil will remain, I won't bend in order to fake acceptance.


----------



## Angina Jolie

Can't believe I ever thought I was another instinctual variant. For a 9, I still desire intensity in almost everything (except my coffee), it brings me back to life. 

And I feel frustrated when others are not willing to share that intensity, to open themselves up, to go deep. It has made me feel like there's something wrong with me because most people around me aren't sx. Why am I so needy? Why do I have no boundaries? Constantly feeling more involved and more engaged in relationships than others. 
Maybe it's time to stop feeling like that and consciously take sx qualities as a necessity in the people I get close to? Learn to say no without tolerance to those who aren't willing or just naturally can't be as involved as me.


----------



## Animal

Off topic but, can you guys do me a favor, if you have the time or the inclination? Answer this thread....


*How do you feel about the user Animal? Hate? Love? Frustration? Unload here!
*​


​


----------



## Angina Jolie

I'm out of intimate connections right now (besides friends who have better things to do) and am getting annoyed and moody.


----------



## Neokortex

Donovan said:


> other peoples' feelings are usually more apparent to me than my own. i can still feel my own state, but the reasons as to why those states exist won't be as clear. on the other hand, i'm not sure that 'accommodation' is my top priority for everyone. i have to see you as a "good person"--within my own definition--before i'm willing to accommodate you. there are plenty of people at work that i won't act
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that way with, or just people in general (lack of consideration within context is a big deal to me--those who are considerate, i usually 'accommodate', those who aren't don't get any sort of special treatment until they change and i try to use my own response towards them in order to change how they act; unless they're okay with it, they usually follow suit. not trying to sound like a dick or full of myself, but i usually get the result i'm after).
> 
> and honestly i'm not "harsh" with them. by other peoples' standards maybe, but i honestly feel like other people are just too willing to put up with something that isn't working for themselves or for others. i just kind of stand there dumbfounded that people are just like, "well, that's just how person-X is. what are you going to?"--or--"yeah, but they'll be angry"... lol, okay.
> 
> i think when things are going well i can seem 2'ish, but enneagram is kind of a circle that bleeds into itself. i get the feeling that determination is much more difficult or complicated.... and in relationships i can be very different. i'm usually very sweet, and this confuses people that know me, or i can just feel the "shock" in them, but to me it makes complete sense: i. feel. differently. about. that. particular. person... why would i treat everyone the same??? not everyone is the same, and not everyone is deserving of the same treatment.
> in (back to) work, not all of them are so innocent, even if they think so, but that belief comes down to blindness on their own part. you can't just expect to do nothing, or the bare minimum, stand in my way, give attitude after the fact like, and then play victim when someone gives you a piece of their mind... it's fucking stupid. it isn't even harsh (did i say that or did you?), it's just action and reaction. if someone doesn't like it, they examine how and why they are attracting the aggression of others instead of blaming other people with a wide brush, as if, "he just has a temper" somehow explains away their own behavior... whatever, lol, people are people at the end of the day.
> 
> i don't "turn" into anything. all of it's me, but again, i won't treat everyone the same, and i won't carry my anger over onto a person who doesn't deserve it. so yes, i will act differently towards her, but that is my response towards _her_, not towards some asshole who thinks he or she is just important enough to drag ass and be in the way because they know other people will pick up for their slack and do portions of their job for them.
> 
> in any case, that situation no longer matters. i'm not sure if she's playing some kind of game or just keeping her options open, but i'm not interested in either scenario. she goes out of her way to make sure she says bye to me, or, one night in particular, i was finishing up sidework and was in a bad mood, so i ignored her waiting between me and the back door.
> she stood there for about ten seconds, and i kind of watched her from the corner of my eye, until she shouldered the door open and then let it slam behind her.
> none of that sounds like all that much, but the feeling i get is that from her--if she's not surrounded by her friends and kind of drunk--is that is her way of showing interest. but, on the other hand, if i try to take you out and you always have a reason of why you can't, i'm going to break that piece of myself off. we can still be work-friends, and you'll still be one of the people i work with that i consider gold, but i'm not going to have conscious feelings for you anymore--ya know? i'll get rid of them, because while i may not be that much in tune with the "why's" and "why not's" of how i feel, i know that that particular state is just depressing, and from there, anger-inducing (and not the good kind of anger that fuels you, it's just a dark kind, so i'll nix it).
> 
> i don't know man. not everyone is fully aware, or will any human be capable of seeing anything in more than two directions. reality, and the origins that create our perceptions are limitless, and they are all true. different ways of existing... though, it'd be a bit better if we all thought your way, lol.


Yo! Another late reply. I promised to follow up with a detailed reading of your post. Dude. You have Enneagram 8 issues.
I like the descriptions from here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/the-traditional-enneagram/
It seems to me that you want things to work right in your work place, for people to do their job instead of slacking and then give that haughty attitude. That's an Enneagram 1 thing. I believe you see it right there and it somehow your E1 seems to fuel your E8 but, this Enneagram theory says that the people usually move to E8 from E2. So if I were you, I may wanna check out the difference between 1w2 and 2w1.

How does this relate to the woman issue you had? Not sure if it's still actual, but you gave a hint there that the girls' hesitation, unclarity of her motivation makes you depressed and you wary to not work yourself up over this and let it all out on her. Do you think this girl tries to play on your righteousness side? Giving you traces of not having done something right?

Or: I forgot your story. Could you repeat what makes you think that she is/was into you? Some hints when she was drunk or with friends? Could be that she's a social E7, that means a hidden 7 that masks itself in different ways but what she really wants is you to let loose. Because you invite her out the proper way, then that's your E1 speaking. But if you invite her out while you're joking and not taking life all that seriously, she may probably say yes. However, based off on what I read, you don't seem much to be a person of humor and carnival. Most INFJs aren't, supposing that's your type.


----------



## Neokortex

oh the irony said:


> I'm out of intimate connections right now (besides friends who have better things to do) and am getting annoyed and moody.


Hey! Let's get some sex! xDDD



> Maybe it's time to stop feeling like that and consciously take sx qualities as a necessity in the people I get close to? Learn to say no without tolerance to those who aren't willing or just naturally can't be as involved as me.


Hmmm. If you're a core 9, and not, say, a secondary or tertiary 9, than, if we can believe in the Enneagram theory, you should be looking for 3s (?). Instinct variant is not the only variable, though. My core type is a social variant, now I think it's a 4w3 and because I also have a 6 I can't play down, my w3 that craves the social sphere's validation for my competence, results in a sexual (boosted) 1. So if you don't want to have sex, instead penetrate deeply into emotions, than probably you're core type is not the gut type 9.


----------



## Neokortex

Ace Face said:


> I have made great strides in my spiritual life. I have journeyed deep into my own thoughts, and I've pondered my actions and behaviors. One of the topics I believe would be beneficial for me to explore right now is... you. I don't want to leave any rock, however small it may be, unturned. I have a lot of care, and I put a lot of energy into caring about the things I believe are worth the energy and time. You most certainly are not one of those things I care about... not even in the slightest, most minuscule way. Truth be told, aside from the thought I've chosen to give you now, you very rarely cross my mind, and when you unexpectedly do pop up on occasion, you get swat down so very quickly. When other people bring you up, I can see them looking at me just waiting for some little glimmer of a reaction. They are often disappointed when they find that my face, my mood, and my attitude don't change one bit. I don't become uncomfortable, I don't become angry... I don't become anything. I realize that you are mentioned, but I truly just don't care. You're not worth the energy it takes to care. Contrary to popular belief, I don't hate you. You're not important enough to hate or give much thought to at all. To give you my thoughts would be to give you my energy... my power. You don't deserve my thoughts, energy, or power. The funny thing is that I don't avoid thinking about you. I don't avoid thinking of you at all. You're just literally so unimportant to me that even on the rare occasion you are thought of, I very quickly remember how little you matter, and go on about my day. You're nothing more than an occasional fleeting thought... acknowledged for just a brief moment, and then filed away to be forgotten until something in this world triggers up an obscure memory of you at random. For you, I feel nothing... because you are nothing at all to me. This is the most thought I've given you... probably ever. And it's the most thought you're probably ever going to get. Beyond this, I have nothing for you. And honestly, this wasn't even for you. It was for me. Like I said, I want no stone left unturned on this journey I've begun. Every facet I can think of will be explored for my own personal gain. I'm not sure what I've gained here, but I have certainly told my truth. I suppose that's reward enough.


Oh, I feel flattered xDDDD. Now this is some helluva long text about some person that is supposed to be outside your conscious awareness. No wonder most of this forum looks like monologues masqueraded as dialogs. We're getting farther and farther away from each other in our pretense of becoming closer.


----------



## cinnabun

Can't be fucked with anything or anyone.


----------



## Angina Jolie

Neokortex said:


> Hey! Let's get some sex! xDDD


Staaahhhp :frustrating:



> Hmmm. If you're a core 9, and not, say, a secondary or tertiary 9, than, if we can believe in the Enneagram theory, you should be looking for 3s (?). Instinct variant is not the only variable, though. My core type is a social variant, now I think it's a 4w3 and because I also have a 6 I can't play down, my w3 that craves the social sphere's validation for my competence, results in a sexual (boosted) 1. So if you don't want to have sex, instead penetrate deeply into emotions, than probably you're core type is not the gut type 9.


If we believe in enneagram theory, I should be looking for 3s and my 3s should be looking for 6s and their 6s should be looking for me. Basically an orgy of romance!!! Thanx but nop.

This seems a bit unrelated to my comment actually, but interesting you brought it up anyway.
I am a core 9, 90% sure of that. They say sx 9w8's can seem and feel like 4s and I used to type as 4 before, but as in the tritype that would be my secondary fix, it's basically my next strategy after 9 disappointment begins. Self pity, emphasizing my pain, identifyinf with it. Not the healthy 4 tendencies though.

Of course sex has to be a part of the deal. It's so funny, I was in a relationship with a man that I actually started resenting very early and for the most of the relationship I thought I was asexual. LOL! So not! All it took is someone who accepted me for me and allowed me to just be to realize I'm very sexual.

Interesting about your So instinct emphasizing your w3. Makes sense. I think my Sx also emphasizes the w8 as I can get very competitive and come to life through impulsiveness.

Also, about matching instincts. To be honest, another sx dom may even be too much for me. Their energy would overbear mine I think and I would feel like there's no space for me (as has happened before). Maybe sx aux would be better. But from experience, Sp doms are way too slow or ''normal paced'' when it comes to opening and getting involved, I get frustrated and anxious over them actually being uninterested. So I would guess at least having the dom and aux instincts in common would be a better fit.


----------



## Animal

oh the irony said:


> Staaahhhp :frustrating:
> 
> 
> 
> If we believe in enneagram theory, I should be looking for 3s and my 3s should be looking for 6s and their 6s should be looking for me. Basically an orgy of romance!!! Thanx but nop.
> 
> This seems a bit unrelated to my comment actually, but interesting you brought it up anyway.
> I am a core 9, 90% sure of that. They say sx 9w8's can seem and feel like 4s and I used to type as 4 before, but as in the tritype that would be my secondary fix, it's basically my next strategy after 9 disappointment begins. Self pity, emphasizing my pain, identifyinf with it. Not the healthy 4 tendencies though.
> 
> Of course sex has to be a part of the deal. It's so funny, I was in a relationship with a man that I actually started resenting very early and for the most of the relationship I thought I was asexual. LOL! So not! All it took is someone who accepted me for me and allowed me to just be to realize I'm very sexual.
> 
> Interesting about your So instinct emphasizing your w3. Makes sense. I think my Sx also emphasizes the w8 as I can get very competitive and come to life through impulsiveness.
> 
> Also, about matching instincts. To be honest, another sx dom may even be too much for me. Their energy would overbear mine I think and I would feel like there's no space for me (as has happened before). Maybe sx aux would be better. But from experience, Sp doms are way too slow or ''normal paced'' when it comes to opening and getting involved, I get frustrated and anxious over them actually being uninterested. So I would guess at least having the dom and aux instincts in common would be a better fit.


My father is a 7w8 and my ex is a 7w6. I was sure that the LAST THING IN THE WORLD I wanted would be a 7. I would imagine myself dating a Sx-last triple-comp and it would excite me more than the thought of ever having to deal with a 7 again.

I also swore up and down that Sp was the most attractive instinct to me and my eventual partner would be Sp first.


My husband is not only my soulmate - he is my IDEAL mate. If you look at a list of qualities that I want in a man (which he read on this forum just before we started talking.. ) .... he matches every single one. _Every single one. _ I even had a dream in which I saw him, his eyes, his "feel" .. before we ever met. He is not only perfect for me because I love him but he is literally my ideal in every way.

He is, as it turns out, very likely an Sx 7 , and possibly Sp last.

I don't think you can plan these things. When love strikes, it strikes and your ideal might not be the numbers you imagine he will be.


----------



## Animal

@*oh the irony*
I will add though, that if an Sx4 hates something (like I hated 7s) it's probably because they are very attracted to that type... I only hate the people I love and who I can't have, envy or whose approval I long for.. which was most pronounced around my father and my ex lol... so I guess you could also say I was destined to marry a 7, I was just scared of the power they have over me and how they turn my soul inside out and don't get fooled by my image or my other bullshit.... how they bring out everything real in me and how they're so adorable and fiesty with their moods... sigh. Yeah, I guess this might not be universal. Sx 4 "hate and love' is a theme and it works for me, lol.








Before I married my husband I could not possibly stop talking enough shit about 7s and how much I hate them and would never date them (although I love my father, respect my ex and have 7 friends).. it's like the concept of them made me want to burn like a volcano. 
@*NylonSmiles* you might appreciate this or relate?


----------



## Angina Jolie

Animal said:


> I don't think you can plan these things. When love strikes, it strikes and your ideal might not be the numbers you imagine he will be.


Absolutely, but it's so entertaining to think about it and fantasize through this system. However I hope my idea is proven wrong cuz I too am actually attracted to Sp's. Just from experience with most of them, they haven't been able to provide me the comfort of closeness. 

Out of curiosity, I was gonna actually ask you what your husbands instinct is. I think through trial and error we do learn what might be good for us and what might not. We just don't know where to find it or look for it in the wrong places. So It's awesome that you found your perfect love in an unexpected ''place''.


----------



## Angina Jolie

I have a friend who's had problems with guys for a while. It just never worked out - it ended before it even begun. 
Now she's been in a relationship with a dude who's SO different from her. I know him a little bit from the past and holy guacamole. It's like a tibetan munk falling in love with and marrying the princess ''material'' from Sunset Boulevard or smthn.

It's SO ADORABLE I'M GONNA CRY!


----------



## Animal

oh the irony said:


> Absolutely, but it's so entertaining to think about it and fantasize through this system. However I hope my idea is proven wrong cuz I too am actually attracted to Sp's. Just from experience with most of them, they haven't been able to provide me the comfort of closeness.
> 
> Out of curiosity, I was gonna actually ask you what your husbands instinct is. I think through trial and error we do learn what might be good for us and what might not. We just don't know where to find it or look for it in the wrong places. So It's awesome that you found your perfect love in an unexpected ''place''.


We're not totally sure but it's looking like Sx.

He still has the quality that I love.... that I guess I was attributing to Sp's.... in that he doesn't reveal much about his deeper self to many people but then with me he talks and talks    INFJ trait maybe? It's so adorable and makes me feel like the only woman on earth  ... which is not to say I'd ever be hurt or offended if he opened up to someone else; I love when he connects with my friends etc... or with anyone.. I love anything that makes him happy or lights him up.. but I just have a thing for men who are more reserved emotionally than I am, even if in private they are moodier and more "rawr" than I am. I am not attracted to highly sociable, erratic, spread-too-thin men whatsoever. (Not all Soc doms are like that, but social 7s seem to have that going for them quite often.) I don't like party animals, people who are too entwined with social expectations, big families and tons of get-togethers, constantly having to do things for too many people.. it bores me and makes me close off.. like "you can go do that but i'll just not do it." 

I like enigmatic, mystifying men... whose hearts I alone can unlock. I shouldn't say that in the plural because really I've just always dreamed of it and he fits the dream and the fantasy perfectly, without me having to 'idealize" him or overlook his humanity at all.


----------



## Angina Jolie

Animal said:


> We're not totally sure but it's looking like Sx.
> 
> He still has the quality that I love.... that I guess I was attributing to Sp's.... in that he doesn't reveal much about his deeper self to many people but then with me he talks and talks    INFJ trait maybe? It's so adorable and makes me feel like the only woman on earth  ... which is not to say I'd ever be hurt or offended if he opened up to someone else; I love when he connects with my friends etc... or with anyone.. I love anything that makes him happy or lights him up.. but I just have a thing for men who are more reserved emotionally than I am, even if in private they are moodier and more "rawr" than I am. I am not attracted to highly sociable, erratic, spread-too-thin men whatsoever. (Not all Soc doms are like that, but social 7s seem to have that going for them quite often.) I don't like party animals, people who are too entwined with social expectations, big families and tons of get-togethers, constantly having to do things for too many people.. it bores me and makes me close off.. like "you can go do that but i'll just not do it."
> 
> I like enigmatic, mystifying men... whose hearts I alone can unlock. I shouldn't say that in the plural because really I've just always dreamed of it and he fits the dream and the fantasy perfectly, without me having to 'idealize" him or overlook his humanity at all.












I absolutely relate to what you are attracted to. Sx, INFPness, unrelated personal preference? Don't know.

All in all, he seems absolutely lucky to have you, your love for him just shines through every letter, every word typed. I'm in awe reading it.

Relating to what you said about ''hated 7s only because I secretly admired them adn was attracted to them''. I don't think there's a type of a person I hate. This is the problem - I automatically go to understanding where a person is coming from and in the end, just knowing their story and the ''why's'' for their behavior or character, I cannot hate them.
However, there have tended to be people whom I also suspect to be the same type, who have ticked me nuts. Mostly 6s (not surprising with disintegration). But it's not a stimulating kinda irritation so I would not ascribe it to possible attraction.

I've been with an 8w9 sx before. Crazy shit. Like almost litterally we both went insane. He destroyed my already fragile essence and I destroyed his beliefs in what is and what isn't. But weirdly, we both also brought us to a much higher level of awareness exactly because we both ticked on each other's weak points. He brought my anger out so often that I became far more aware of it and even more comfortable and I even started liking it. Never have I felt more real than when angry at him and those were the few moments when I wanted to never leave his side.

When you have this system to analyze your relationships with people through, it becomes very weird but also very enlightening. In simple words it provides you with guidelines for what information look for, what may mean more than you think in the dynamic. 

I'm still just learning what would be good for me and yes, I only have an idea of what kinda person could give that so in a way it's an exciting exploration.


----------



## Animal

oh the irony said:


> I absolutely relate to what you are attracted to. Sx, INFPness, unrelated personal preference? Don't know.
> 
> All in all, he seems absolutely lucky to have you, your love for him just shines through every letter, every word typed. I'm in awe reading it.
> 
> Relating to what you said about ''hated 7s only because I secretly admired them adn was attracted to them''. I don't think there's a type of a person I hate. This is the problem - I automatically go to understanding where a person is coming from and in the end, just knowing their story and the ''why's'' for their behavior or character, I cannot hate them.
> However, there have tended to be people whom I also suspect to be the same type, who have ticked me nuts. Mostly 6s (not surprising with disintegration). But it's not a stimulating kinda irritation so I would not ascribe it to possible attraction.
> 
> I've been with an 8w9 sx before. Crazy shit. Like almost litterally we both went insane. He destroyed my already fragile essence and I destroyed his beliefs in what is and what isn't. But weirdly, we both also brought us to a much higher level of awareness exactly because we both ticked on each other's weak points. He brought my anger out so often that I became far more aware of it and even more comfortable and I even started liking it. Never have I felt more real than when angry at him and those were the few moments when I wanted to never leave his side.
> 
> When you have this system to analyze your relationships with people through, it becomes very weird but also very enlightening. In simple words it provides you with guidelines for what information look for, what may mean more than you think in the dynamic.
> 
> I'm still just learning what would be good for me and yes, I only have an idea of what kinda person could give that so in a way it's an exciting exploration.


Hehe awww I love this post!!!! The dynamic between you and an 8w9 is so interesting 

I dated a 9, but I would fight AT him while he went off to 9 cloud. He would never allow himself to get angry. So annoying. >:/

I dated an 8w7 too and we would fight, but I could never stay mad at him or hate him the way I could with other men. I understand the suffering of 8s too well, somehow. It's like everyone else is so amazed by them but I can really see what's missing, so I could never idealize them. Maybe because 8 and 4 are opposites... so I can really see how they have closed off a whole internal life that is abundant in me, and I know how much they desperately need someone to remind them to sit still and look inwards. My best friend all my life is an Sx/So 8w9. He is a beautiful person- everyone else is obsessed and impressed by him, but he's like a brother to me, I can really see the holes in him just as he can see the holes in me. We help each other, we love and adore each other's talents and the good things, but there could never be any idolization because we're both just too aware of what we have that the other lacks. Not in a mean way though.. in a loving, wanting to help each other way.

With 7s, it ends up being that *I *am the one lacking. They want stimulation; I want to work on my book. They love being praised; which I do freely with @*Sun Daeva* and I love it so much because it is genuine... and when I'm in love I overflow with delight about the person.. the problem is, I guess you could say with the other 7, while I did love him in some ways, it was more about envy and lust.. I don't know whether I wanted to love him or wanted to be him or wanted to destroy him. All of those sentiments conflict in my diaries and songs from back then. He was a symbol of everything I'd lost, everything I was inside, but could never show to the world as freely as he could; everything I could have been. I couldn't praise him the way I praise my husband because it was too embarrassing; I needed to act like I didn't care about him at all (which is what he eventually came to believe).. because I had to cover up for my stalkerish obsession and feeling like.. I could feel HIM in my bones instead of me; like I saw him in the mirror.. I just couldn't get away from him even when I was alone.

My father and I are sort of alike on the outside and he's always been an impressive overpowering presence in my life. He's so supportive, but he's also so fucking amazing. He is something that nobody could live up to. A famous rockstar who then became a psychiatrist; all after scraping himself out of poverty. He is not a good looking guy but he is magnetic and continues to attract young women at age 70, although he's loyal to my mom, but it's like every waitress has to flirt or give him eyes. He is lacking in the Fi department (ENTP ) and he knows it and he's so open and blatant about it, and admires how I'm so 'in touch with my feelings' and sees them as this mystical magic that implore me to write books and songs that he cannot write. Yet he knows his faults and focuses on his strengths and knows exactly who he is, and owns it... with a balls-out, bold approach that I could never match... not many can. So even though i was the light of his life and the star he could never be and his princess, I also grew up in his shadow. 

I think this issue kind of dragged over to my ex, but not to my husband. With my husband we have such open, beautiful communication. My husband is willing to cry, to mourn, to look inward. He has a huge heart and he can't help but show it. I could never hate or compete with him. What we share is just too innocent.


This is the list of ideal traits - I reposted it in my blog. Curious how much of this you relate to?

My Ideal Partner - Art is the Blood of the Exile


----------



## Daeva

oh the irony said:


> All in all, he seems absolutely lucky to have you, your love for him just shines through every letter, every word typed. I'm in awe reading it.


I am beyond lucky to _have _her, she is truly part of my soul, and I am hers.

I put 'have' in _italics _because it's more than possession from being in a relationship with one another: it's about giving each other the freedom to be our true selves, and running *wild and free *side by side.


----------



## Ace Face

Sometimes, the apple does fall far from the tree.


----------



## Ace Face

My thoughts summed up perfectly out of a chapter of a book: "Power resides where men believe it resides. It's a trick--a shadow on the wall--and a very small man can cast a large shadow."


----------



## daleks_exterminate

I met someone I instantly connected with. Like magical sx fires. And they wanted something intimate claiming they've never had this before. I've had this happen a lot. I think it's because when I have an intense sx connection it's basically falling in love with the entity of someone, but it isn't (mostly or even usually) romantic for me. On the other end it apparently feels like being drawn in and then nothing. I try to be honest/upfront and clear with my intentions. Regardless, people sometimes fall hard for me and this is a very bad thing. If I like someone, I tell them I like them. I am married and happy and just want who I'm with though. 

Have you experienced this? How do you cope with it? I've lost seriously (what I thought were) really great friendships over this happening and them wanting/expecting more and not being able to be friends. It's weirdly more of a problem in the last few months than ever before and like I said, married, so that's a huge problem. I don't think I lead people on. I'm also feeling really used because people want the close connection and intimacy until they finally understand (although I've been saying the entire time) that it is only a friendship. So I'm becoming a little less trusting.


----------



## Ace Face

daleks_exterminate said:


> I met someone I instantly connected with. Like magical sx fires. And they wanted something intamate, claiming they've never had this before. I've had this happen a lot. I think it's because when I have an intense sx connection it's basically falling in love with the entity of someone, but it isn't (mostly or even usually) romantic for me. On the other end it apparently feels like being drawn in and then nothing. I try to be honest/upfront and clear with my intentions. Regardless, people sometimes fall hard for me and this is a very bad thing. If I like someone, I tell them I like them. I am married and happy and just want who I'm with though.
> 
> Have you experienced this? How do you cope with it? I've lost seriously (what I thought were) really great friendships over this happening and them wanting/expecting more and not being able to be friends. It's weirdly more of a problem in the last few months than ever before and like I said, married, so that's a huge problem. I don't think I lead people on. I'm also feeling really used because people want the close connection and intimacy until they finally understand (although I've been saying the entire time) that it is only a friendship. So I'm becoming a little less trusting.


If you truly said that the whole time, then I don't think I'd be crazy to conclude that the other persons involved expressed their affections the whole time as well. Would it not be more merciful to cut them off completely and make it clear that you're not interested than it would be to just simply proclaim you're not interested and maintain close friendships/still have them hold out for hope? To express disinterest and then proceed to stay close sends mixed messages. It is confusing for people. I wish you the best of luck in these endeavors. If you're truly their friends and you truly care for these people, you will do what needs to be done as soon as you can do it. It is the merciful thing, though I realize how hard it is to lose what you consider to be good friends. I've had to do it on several occasions, even with persons who used to be on this forum. I will treasure those friendships, and the parts they played in my life for years to come, but I do not regret the decisions I've made. They've moved on, and they are better for it. I promise you, there are friends worth having who don't have that type of interest in you. I hope you find them.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Ace Face said:


> If you truly said that the whole time, then I don't think I'd be crazy to conclude that the other persons involved expressed their affections the whole time as well. Would it not be more merciful to cut them off completely and make it clear that you're not interested than it would be to just simply proclaim you're not interested and maintain close friendships/still have them hold out for hope? To express disinterest and then proceed to stay close sends mixed messages. It is confusing for people. I wish you the best of luck in these endeavors. If you're truly their friends and you truly care for these people, you will do what needs to be done as soon as you can do it. It is the merciful thing, though I realize how hard it is to lose what you consider to be good friends. I've had to do it on several occasions, even with persons who used to be on this forum. I will treasure those friendships, and the parts they played in my life for years to come, but I do not regret the decisions I've made. They've moved on, and they are better for it. I promise you, there are friends worth having who don't have that type of interest in you. I hope you find them.


i think I don't pick up on it. I'm really bad with subtle hints and cues. They go over my head. I don't mind not being friends if it's hard for someone. It's more really confusing because it seems like it's out of no where. Obviously, it's repetitive and so I realize I'm probably doing something wrong or giving out wrong signals but it isn't conscious or intentional so I don't know how to fix it. 

The biggest issue for me with "cutting someone else off" as a merciful gesture is that I have high regard for personal attonomy. It's one of my few values I guess and so if someone says they want a friendship and can handle it, I would never want to assume that I know them better than they do or i can read them better or whatever or that they're being dishonest. My policy is kind of take friends for what they say and if they're not being honest it's kind of on them. However, I do want to make sure I'm not unintentionally leading someone on at the same time.


----------



## Ace Face

daleks_exterminate said:


> i think I don't pick up on it. I'm really bad with subtle hints and cues. They go over my head. I don't mind not being friends if it's hard for someone. It's more really confusing because it seems like it's out of no where. Obviously, it's repetitive and so I realize I'm probably doing something wrong or giving out wrong signals but it isn't conscious or intentional so I don't know how to fix it.
> 
> The biggest issue for me with "cutting someone else off" as a merciful gesture is that I have high regard for personal attonomy. It's one of my few values I guess and so if someone says they want a friendship and can handle it, I would never want to assume that I know them better than they do or i can read them better or whatever or that they're being dishonest. My policy is kind of take friends for what they say and if they're not being honest it's kind of on them. However, I do want to make sure I'm not unintentionally leading someone on at the same time.


It makes sense. You're not looking for anything, and because of that, might not pick up on the hints and cues that get dropped. I think I'm always looking for those types of things. It's a bit of an obsession. People fascinate me, and I enjoy studying them. I like to read between the lines, listen to the stories people's eyes are sharing, and observe their body language... read the emotions they're not verbally speaking aloud. For this reason, very little gets by me. I'm kinda honed in on that underlying, unspoken connection I share with people... that people share with each other. You are well-intentioned, and I'm sorry you've been put in this position. I suppose the best advice I can give is that which I've taken heed to myself. Learn to observe. If you really listen to what a person is saying with each and every part of his full being, you will see the truth beyond the words his mouth is speaking. If you have any questions or want to speak in more depth, I would be more than happy to oblige.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Ace Face said:


> It makes sense. You're not looking for anything, and because of that, might not pick up on the hints and cues that get dropped. I think I'm always looking for those types of things. It's a bit of an obsession. People fascinate me, and I enjoy studying them. I like to read between the lines, listen to the stories people's eyes are sharing, and observe their body language... read the emotions they're not verbally speaking aloud. For this reason, very little gets by me. I'm kinda honed in on that underlying, unspoken connection I share with people... that people share with each other. You are well-intentioned, and I'm sorry you've been put in this position. I suppose the best advice I can give is that which I've taken heed to myself. Learn to observe. If you really listen to what a person is saying with each and every part of his full being, you will see the truth beyond the words his mouth is speaking. If you have any questions or want to speak in more depth, I would be more than happy to oblige.


thanks. I'll probably take you up on this.


----------



## Animal

@*daleks_exterminate*
I never believe anyone likes me until it's directly in my face, in plain words - and even then I figure they're just bored, they're idealizing me, they'll get over it tomorrow etc. I do take confessions seriously and I'm always up for talking through feelings with friends - and when I was single, I was still very blunt about what I don't want, and where the line is. I've had to hurt people close to me (which hurts me too) but I'd rather be blunt than leave them wondering and hanging and hoping; it's cruel to do that to them. I leave no ambiguity; yet still, I end up with people into me and being hurt by me. 

Since I've been married I talk about him all the time. He's my soulmate.. I can't have a meaningful conversation and leave him out of it. I talk about him on facebook, here, on my other enneagram board. I tell my friends. I put up the wedding pictures on facebook. I wear my wedding ring. When people ask how we met, or anything about us, I tell them the story and they can see the love overflowing. Due to this - I have not had this problem much since we got together. However, since I've been with him, a handful of people who I considered good friends treated me completely differently, including (bisexual) women. That ...hurts. But what can I say? I have the love of my life.. I don't need friends who want me to feel something I don't feel; to be something for them that I can't be. And I especially don't need friends who are passive aggressive or mean to me because I'm happy.


----------



## 6007

Found out today that Byron was molested at age six or seven by an uncle. I've apparently met this uncle, in fact I met this uncle the weekend I met Byron. 

Just... How and why does stuff like this happen. Why in the world would an adult touch a kid on their ... Kid junk?

I was like 

IS HE GAY

and Byron was like I don't think so. 

Ummm. This dude has kids. 

My poor beautiful Byron. Goddamn it.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

In other news, 

Long distance marriage is the worst fucking thing ive ever experienced. I'm so fucking over it. Some how it became worse after marriage, like a cage with no way out but an ocean still separating us. I can't fucking handle this much longer. I know these feelings are kind of bullshit. I know he loves me so much. I love him so much. Even with this there's no one else or nothing else I want more. 

We are on two totally different schedules now. Completely. He works the days I'm off. I work the days he's off. We wake up when the other one sleeps. We only have to do this for like a month at least... But Its excruciating and it's hell. Long distance marriage is awful. Don't do it kids. 

if it was a lot longer I'd probably just off myself at this point and put myself out of the misery. Like a really sick animal.


----------



## Kintsugi

I rediscovered my passion! It's like falling in love again...I'm addicted!

I have done very little but draw these past few weeks. My sketch books are full and I am overflowing with ideas.

I'm so fucking happy! ^_^


----------



## cinnabun

You know what's a good time? Playing super smash bros while high.

You know what's not a good time? Thinking you hear footsteps in the darkness and you, your boyfriend and his friend all freak the fuck out...while high.

I'm like so hyped all the time, I just realised that. Like, I don't know how to relax. I really envy those who are laid back as hell and don't let nothing bother them. They live in the moment, and don't bother about the consequences. I wish I was more like that, lol. Always on edge about something. Sometimes...it's good to have nights like this and just forget about the bad shit and just live a little, you know? Like I feel damn good right now son. I wish life was more like this, and not a stressful "born/live/die" typa shit.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

@The Perfect Storm
Cool, it's always nice to feel inspired.


----------



## Donovan

i think that trying to accept things, as opposed to changing them, can sometimes be a better situation overall. even if the outcome is negative, or not "as great as it could have been" (based upon whatever perspective is held at the time; given context). the result of what could be replaced by the absence of the more used habit, could be the building of a new one, more apt to its given circumstance and less attached to a more previous mode of life. 

not everything has to be a fight (personal). but honestly, going about things in any other way just makes me very uncomfortable. and i don't mean "fighting", as much as my natural instinct is to fight in some way so that i have more of an option in the situation. but it's not like i need that necessarily. having it just to have it is wasted energy. energy that could be something else, if you think about it. 

it seems stupid to be held back by something that is entirely under your own control.


----------



## Ace Face

I'm like beer... cold, but bubbly! An interesting paradox, for sure.


----------



## Superfluous

My anonymous-but-still-a-diary blog I've had for years is is truly cooking now. I'm gaining a following and I absolutely love the attention, but I have no interest in expanding socially. I just want to gab about my events - because it's the only way I can roll out steam, laugh about life, and then fucking forget things. I dont want strange people thinking they know me simply because know personal things about me. What I will do is wait wait wait, then go to publishing, and boom. book deal. 

This time, lovely SX thread, I'm not going to go with the traditional route of explaining what I'm doing in my life and how that's affecting my mood. Stable, routine, equal parts business and pleasure. I'm feeling pretty good, and I hope you are too.


----------



## Little_Bird

F*** it, I'm tired of repressing my sx energy because it makes people uncomfortable and doubt their sexual preference while having them think I wanna bang. It's annoying, tiring, and makes me more socially awkward.

Yes, I am a butterfly-phoenix-dragon creature and if that makes you feel strange, then no one is forcing you to engage with me. I miss feeling the world's current go through my pores. *sighs in happiness*


----------



## Neokortex

Little_Bird said:


> F*** it, I'm tired of repressing my sx energy because it makes people uncomfortable and doubt their sexual preference while having them think I wanna bang. It's annoying, tiring, and makes me more socially awkward.
> 
> Yes, I am a butterfly-phoenix-dragon creature and if that makes you feel strange, then no one is forcing you to engage with me. I miss feeling the world's current go through my pores. *sighs in happiness*


So when exactly do butterfly-phoenix-dragon creatures wanna bang?


----------



## Superfluous

I am_ living _on cutting out the bullshit, and it's working. Life is weirdly simple now. The blessing and the curse was always: I can count all the telling details of a people, and then reflect a certain vibrancy in myself and behaviors when in a social environment. I would do it often so I have made a lot of friends, but technically, was left with some empty friendships. I'm gonna admit to myself that I actually want friends. Yet the only way I can comfortably maintain friendships is.. if they feel real. And so I HAVE to be real. So, let me get real. 

I am obsessed with evolving. if you told me someone was stagnant in their personality, I truly considered that a flaw. I never got that other people don't strive in overcoming. It's not an actual thing people focus on. Wow. I mean, there is _always_ something to overcome. I mean, what channel are you people watching? lol. But yeah, I was so obsessed with transforming, still am, but it wasn't graceful. With others, it was messy. I would throw a person's faults, insecurities, and monsters in their face, because I assumed once they confront it, they would overcome it and it wouldn't control it anymore. I have been the monster in people's life, but only temporarily, because if I knocked you down.. I would expect you to stand up. And if you didn't, then there was the wise compassionate advice to target specific demons. And yes, those people would get up eventually, and realize they have grown themselves in just doing so. But it's often messy because, People... don't work that way. I never thought 'huh, people never had other people demanding these things growing up.' It was a passing thought, but never a thought to spark revelations. (my favorite kind of thoughts obviously.) I was too messy with others, because it reflected on how hard I am on myself. Forceful... forcing isn't natural evolving. I saw it as simple math, if I am disgusted with manipulation in others, I will aim to be honest in my agenda from step 1. If I felt guilt in myself for being selfish, I consciously practiced selflessness. I truly couldn't accept myself less than a quality character that makes a Grade A person, and that meant everything was a test. 

And then I began to ask myself, if I am working so hard, how am I getting nowhere? Process, process, process and the aha! It registered. I was over-fucking-complicating it. I couldn't end the cycle of ... the many things things I go through.. I kept telling myself, it was some deep meaning.. Like, solving the foundation will correct the house. It's a deep wound in my core when I'm pumping the breaks and I can't stop the cycle. It's why I talked so much, I would talk about my lifestyle makeovers like I was a fucking infomercial. I was desperately trying to win control of my life back. Positive thoughts become positive words become positive action? If only I could convert the energy I use talking into fuel! 

Depth, is concept, actually is not my niche. I am deep, but not in that way. Now that I'm living again, I realize I don't have the patience for that stuff unless I'm asking for to get into some weird spiral. But anyways, the more I experience in a day - the more I can take home things to evaluate. When I evaluate, I feel comfortable in where I stand. And then, I can continue to experience. This is my new trick now, not essential oils... not ADHD medications.. Simplicity. Moving forward for the sake of moving forward and not because I have to, and not because I have things to prove. Lately, I'm not off lost in books and articles so I know how to be in control once I do venture out. I am control it's self, I can't describe it. But I feel smart, in control, determined, and beautifully strategic. I'm the asshole who wakes up in the morning, decides eh I have no plans let's see where the day takes me, and I bring home bacon, and I bring home plans, and suddenly I'm building my life. I have experienced so much, visually nothing can get past me, and because of so, I know the answers. Books, articles, and psychology text books really have nothing on me. 

And with that touch of realness.. I do hope to make your acquaintance.


----------



## Rala

HS Advice #1

You need to let your heart bleed. You need to stop running from the emptiness. It is terrifying, this void, not being able to feel your heart, feeling like a stranger to yourself. It scares you not being able to reach your heart, that who you really are. And so you desperately try to fill the emptiness with something. But the more you try, the less you are going to be satisfied. For you are never going to find yourself anywhere else but inside, and have you forgotten that the only way out is through? Let yourself feel empty. Let yourself be honest. If you are empty, then be empty. Own it. For this emptiness is authentic and this way you are getting closer to yourself. It won't last forever, everything is temporary, and the more you despise something, the faster you need to embrace the fuck out of it. Chase it, eat it up, become it. You've come a long way, and you've got what you need for this journey. I promise you are only heading North, as long as you always follow your heart, no matter how negative the emotions are. Follow. Your. Golden.Heart.


----------



## Neokortex

SheWolf said:


> Seriously. Fuck people. Fuck them all.
> 
> I'm so fucking tired of giving my all to them. I try to establish a bond. I try to get something deeper. I long for closeness. But I must be just some piece of shit to everyone I encounter.
> 
> People are selfish. They'll hurt you and only want you around when they need something.
> 
> Eat shit, humanity.


People are boring. They are sooo private. They want to negotiate everything through their peer group. So they don't give themselves fully to some significant other, rather they spread out sharing themselves with their peers leaving you with only one small part to cherish.


----------



## Little_Bird

Neokortex said:


> Sounds like your Sx energy comes from your Heart center. It's like you wanna connect deeply to people on an *emotional* level. Hence you don't like the idea of fwb or nsa type of relationships. I guess you gotta look for very emotional men. I'm an INFP and I struggle with the after-echo of my emotions but usually I put self-pres needs ahead of emotions. I'm more of a thinker, intellectual kind (E6 head type) instead of reverie-obsessed romantic.
> 
> FYI, I also suffer from withholding Sx energies, or more precisely: "penetrative behavior." But for me it's the inverse: I make girls run away. And if I try to subdue it and act like a "take it easy," "talk about the weather first" social subtype, then often it turns out that I wasted time with other social subtypes who will eventually freak out, either way. So yeah, the best it seems to just take it slow first and then if I feel it's not taking me anywhere, then BAMM, let it out to test them. It's enough to just ask something more personal to see whether they can keep up with the conversation.


That's a good idea!! 😄 I think I've tried it before, to wait a little longer before showing that side of me. But then the reactions I would get would normally be (Not vocally) "LOL what? What was that? That was weird, I hope you never do it again" or "Umm.. What? Huh? *stutter* Okay, I... *person short circuits*". Most of the time they just awkwardly nod/stand there/say goodbye and walk away. 

It was only with those two guys that I kinda found what I was looking for, and they didn't run away. Actually, with the last one, the energy was so intense, we could be talking about bagels, IDK, to other people it felt like we were about to make out aggressively  Us talking would make people uncomfortable. Sadly, we wanted different things out of life, and our paths didn't really criss cross, they led in different directions. His family hates me too, so *shrug*. He was an ESTP. The other guy was an INFJ.

I'm an INFP too!! 😄 Well, when I'm around my friends I look more like an ENFP. I've come to the conclusion that I'm ambiverted or something. My tritype is 7w8 4w5 9w1 sx/so. But a lot of people after a while exhaust me, and I feel the need to tend to my personal goals and creativity. But after being alone for more than 24 hours, I feel the need to connect with someone and share with them. I also can feel a little unmotivated to do stuff  

I understand completely, the whole, "talk about the weather first" approach, but it just comes really unnatural to me  I'll try harder! 

That BAMM is hilarious though, what do you usually drop?  First you're talking about eggs, then you wanna discuss the universe and the possibilities entrenched between human capability and egotism that holds us back from achieving it?


----------



## cinnabun

Ace Face said:


> One of the weirdest ones I ever read was basically Game of Thrones meets My Little Pony. The dude literally combined characters from each and made some weird shit happen. Jaime Lannister ended up fucking Cheerilee or some shit, and that's just the example I remember, lol. There's a crowd for everything in fanfic, I suppose xD Happy writing!


OMFG. I'm actually reading fanfiction right now, and I'm going to search for this. It sounds amazing:laughing:. My boyfriend has recently became a GOT fan, I'll make him read it with me too.

#JustCoupleThings


----------



## Neokortex

Little_Bird said:


> That BAMM is hilarious though, what do you usually drop?  First you're talking about eggs, then you wanna discuss the universe and the possibilities entrenched between human capability and egotism that holds us back from achieving it?


No, the universe thing you just wrote is an external topic. I'm always aware of a very fine line which if I cross, then I introduce some creepiness into the discussion. It's between the private sphere and the public persona. Since I'm an Sx/Sp, I penetrate the private sphere of self-preservation, and since my Gut type has that behavior, I tend to ask things about someone's bodily state. I tend to be critical regarding non-cleanliness, since E1 is about withholding bodily needs to have an organized and clean lifestyle. I ask things such as why someone has tattoos, or there was one case when I told a guy out of a sudden that I had been sensing he was an ISTP and since he had been psych major and new about MBTi, it made him feel uncomfortable. Sometimes I also recognize that it's not just what we say it's rather _how_ we say it, we tend to bring this confidential atmosphere, this intimate mode of engaging, we signal with our body language that now it's just about me and you. And we ask for personal experiences, private thoughts, feelings, instead of gossiping about some external topic like what happened with x and y who might belong to our shared group of friends.

Oh, and I don't have problem about asking early on about one's sexuality. It's more like an intellectual thing for me, which others don't get and find me a creep instead. I remember when I was doing choir to find this young little girl, 19-20, energetic and mischievously playful and with an outsider aura, and we all practiced in an auditorium and I come to her and we start talking about how tomboyish she was, and she said she rather hung out with boys, and I don't remember exactly how explicit we got into it, but it became a bit pervert as much as others started noticing with this weirded out gaze. DD Oh yeah, and she was easily excitable. DD


----------



## NylonSmiles

Neokortex said:


> Hey, I've never seen any videos out there with Sx type INFP girls, I'm sure would be interested to see dat "agressive vibrancy" xDDD
> how it all vibrates out and vibrates me inside xDDD


I bet you say that to all the Sx type INFP girls lol


----------



## Bunny

If I'm with someone, they can really move me with just a few words or a simple gesture that no one else would get or see as meaningful.

I'll keep those moments locked in my memory and I never seem to tire of them.

I always seem to find myself surprised when it does happen. 
It's partly what makes them so worthwhile to me, I think.


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

* *





_I have copied you
And made up myself
So crash and splash

I fight
With my obsession
I feel the tension
A need for caution

I would like to show
Cut open my skull
Look into my head

I don't
Know why I'm so harsh
I could be so brash
I'm going to clash

'Cause I feel
I can always show
my everything to you
If this moment was for me
I try to hear
Lend my ear
Voices inside
One link to join it all again

All the things I knew
The world I trusted
Would be the same
If I
Remained inside my
Protective castle
And kept my eyes closed

Words are just a toy
That people play with
It's superficial
I know
The proof is out there
The hidden answer
That someone left there

'Cause I feel
I can always show
my everything to you
If this moment was for me
I try to hear
Lend my ear
Voices inside
One link to join it all

If I can
Go travel back in time
Start it all over again
Follow a calculated path to live but
One day I
Will come across the same
Feeling again and know
that it will carry over

'Cause I feel
I can always show
my everything to you
If this moment was for me
I try to hear
Lend my ear
Voices inside
One link to join it all
So it goes again_




Because sometimes my own words can't express what I feel.


----------



## Neokortex

NylonSmiles said:


> I bet you say that to all the Sx type INFP girls lol


Along the same lines, maybe. There're not too much out there, though. I usually like to tease INFP girls to see if we think the same or are passionate about the same things but most of the time they close off, become private. They don't get the joke. They're not Barbara Steele sucking her finger.


----------



## Angina Jolie

arfrghhhrrr. 

I don't know if this is sx rant or 9s rant, but it makes me so upset when people ignore me or cancel some plans that I was looking forward to. And not even cancel plans - but when I decide that I wanna do something specific, get excited about it, need other people to do it and then they can't or don't want to. armarhgehdooorrrnnn. It's fucked up why does this make me so upset and angry. Well yeah at least I'm not unaware of my anger anymore and it's true.... we are RAGING inside, constantly.

Really... I just want there to be people who I can count on, who also share my passions. Having to almost beg or wait on others is painful for me. Makes me feel alone and unnecessary, like a third wheel everywhere. Fuuuuuuck, I was finally sorta happy and a little thing like this dragged me down again. Ok I'll get back soon probably.

Also I hate that my ex probably hasn't bet a single eyelash about me afterwards. MISS MEEE!!!!!


----------



## NylonSmiles

Neokortex said:


> Along the same lines, maybe. There're not too much out there, though. I usually like to tease INFP girls to see if we think the same or are passionate about the same things but most of the time they close off, become private. They don't get the joke. They're not Barbara Steele sucking her finger.


If you conduct yourself out in the world like you do here, it's not hard to see why. You come off as overly eager and that does tend to push people away or close them off. I don't know many girls Sx type or otherwise who would want to engage with someone like this. In your own words you've talked about creeping people out and sending them running in the other direction. I can sympathize with being "too much" at times, but then I don't act like a dog trying to hump someone's leg. I don't say this to be mean but there seems to be something you're not getting.

But then again I might just be one of those oversensitives' who doesn't "get the joke."


----------



## Neokortex

NylonSmiles said:


> If you conduct yourself out in the world like you do here, it's not hard to see why. You come off as overly eager and that does tend to push people away or close them off. I don't know many girls Sx type or otherwise who would want to engage with someone like this. In your own words you've talked about creeping people out and sending them running in the other direction. I can sympathize with being "too much" at times, but then I don't act like a dog trying to hump someone's leg. I don't say this to be mean but there seems to be something you're not getting.
> 
> But then again I might just be one of those oversensitives' who doesn't "get the joke."


Perhaps not getting the joke has something to do with where you fixate your identity. I haven't met any INFP girls, although there might be some out there, who don't fixate their identity on their emotions. That' s where the repelling effect comes in - that they believe it's below their dignity if someone tries to poke fun out of their carnal reality. With all the respect, though! Yes, I'm eager to have more intimate conversations, but bringing in sexuality is not about being "a dog trying to hump someone's leg;" it's a test for confidentiality first, and having fun, second. They're not getting this because they're hesitant to publicly identify themselves as down-to-earth, carnal, sexual beings.


----------



## NylonSmiles

Neokortex said:


> Perhaps not getting the joke has something to do with where you fixate your identity. I haven't met any INFP girls, although there might be some out there, who don't fixate their identity on their emotions. That' s where the repelling effect comes in - that they believe it's below their dignity if someone tries to poke fun out of their carnal reality. With all the respect, though! Yes, I'm eager to have more intimate conversations, but bringing in sexuality is not about being "a dog trying to hump someone's leg;" it's a test for confidentiality first, and having fun, second. They're not getting this because they're hesitant to publicly identify themselves as down-to-earth, carnal, sexual beings.


As a being who is highly sexual and comfortable with the fact and is known to test boundaries, I'm just saying your approach is not a winning one.

But you go ahead and do you


----------



## Animal

NylonSmiles said:


> If you conduct yourself out in the world like you do here, it's not hard to see why. You come off as overly eager and that does tend to push people away or close them off. I don't know many girls Sx type or otherwise who would want to engage with someone like this. In your own words you've talked about creeping people out and sending them running in the other direction. I can sympathize with being "too much" at times, but then I don't act like a dog trying to hump someone's leg. I don't say this to be mean but there seems to be something you're not getting.
> 
> But then again I might just be one of those oversensitives' who doesn't "get the joke."


I didn't read the post you're responding to, but the theme of your post reminds me of the good old "nice guy" argument. "I'm so nice, why do women friend-zone me?"


First of all if someone is just pretending to be friends with a woman because he wants to get laid, that is not respectable. Second of all, if he isn't HONORED to be friends with someone who considers him a friend, that's not very nice. Third, nobody is entitled to someone's intimacy just because they are nice, and the idea that they would be, is not very nice.

I have been friend-zoned too. (Though not because I'm nice, hahaha.) It hurts. But in the end I respect my friends and their decisions.


----------



## NylonSmiles

Animal said:


> I didn't read the post you're responding to, but the theme of your post reminds me of the good old "nice guy" argument. "I'm so nice, why do women friend-zone me?"
> 
> 
> First of all if someone is just pretending to be friends with a woman because he wants to get laid, that is not respectable. Second of all, if he isn't HONORED to be friends with someone who considers him a friend, that's not very nice. Third, nobody is entitled to someone's intimacy just because they are nice, and the idea that they would be, is not very nice.
> 
> I have been friend-zoned too. (Though not because I'm nice, hahaha.) It hurts. But in the end I respect my friends and their decisions.


 @Animal, if you read his posts you'll see that he conflates a forward crassness and vulgarity, with playfulness and intimacy. I was going to use a different word over "overly eager" but I was trying to be nice.


----------



## Animal

NylonSmiles said:


> @*Animal*, if you read his posts you'll see that he conflates a forward crassness and vulgarity, with playfulness and intimacy. I was going to use a different word over "overly eager" but I was trying to be nice.


Ah I see, so it's not the nice-guy argument.

It's the "Being openly vulgar and crude should get me laid, since according to me, other men who are crude get laid and women fall for jerks" argument? 

:tongue:


----------



## NylonSmiles

You know, it could be? I didn't consider it from that angle. It just sounded to me like he was using his "penetrative" Sx energy as an excuse to "push himself on others" in a sense. It feels like being violated and not in a good way:kitteh:


----------



## Neokortex

NylonSmiles said:


> @Animal, if you read his posts you'll see that he conflates a forward crassness and vulgarity, with playfulness and intimacy. I was going to use a different word over "overly eager" but I was trying to be nice.


Wait a minute. Where do you set the boundaries for vulgarity? As much as I remember I haven't used any vulgarisms. Perhaps I do miss something, maybe if you enlighten me about it by taking the example of my first post to you? Please?


----------



## Neokortex

Animal said:


> I didn't read the post you're responding to, but the theme of your post reminds me of the good old "nice guy" argument. "I'm so nice, why do women friend-zone me?"


Hey, I think I had that too. Why do women friend-zone nice guys anyways? D


----------



## NylonSmiles

Neokortex said:


> Wait a minute. Where do you set the boundaries for vulgarity? As much as I remember I haven't used any vulgarisms. Perhaps I do miss something, maybe if you enlighten me about it by taking the example of my first post to you? Please?


 @Neokortex, you turned a comment from my STEPDAD into something sexual and sullied it. You've also requested "lets get some sex!" to another user here and they tried to be polite about it but they did ask you to stop. I may be presumptuous but I'm sure there's another certain user on here that feels somewhat harassed by you but is also trying to be polite about it. You may genuinely lack this awareness so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. I've also seen that you identify as Sx last so that may be why your attempts to bond or have a more intimate connection come off sloppy and disrespectful. If you could just slow your roll that would be much appreciated!


----------



## Animal

NylonSmiles said:


> @*Neokortex*, you turned a comment from my STEPDAD into something sexual and sullied it. You've also requested "lets get some sex!" to another user here and they tried to be polite about it but they did ask you to stop. I may be presumptuous but I'm sure there's another certain user on here that feels somewhat harassed by you but is also trying to be polite about it. You may genuinely lack this awareness so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. I've also seen that you identify as Sx last so that may be why your attempts to bond or have a more intimate connection come off sloppy and disrespectful. If you could just slow your roll that would be much appreciated!


A lot of Sx-lasts identify as Sx-first because they're horny, but their attempts to connect are black and white, overdone, and more about getting laid or being forceful than making an actual connection.

Not trying to type anyone here. Just food for thought.

Everyone has all three instincts, but when Sx is in the last position it's either completely ignored or people are embarrassed by it and feel helpless with their obsessions, OR it can be especially... crude and clumsy.


----------



## NylonSmiles

Animal said:


> A lot of Sx-lasts identify as Sx-first because they're horny, but their attempts to connect are black and white, overdone, and more about getting laid or being forceful than making an actual connection.
> 
> Not trying to type anyone here. Just food for thought.
> 
> Everyone has all three instincts, but when Sx is in the last position it's either completely ignored or people are embarrassed by it and feel helpless with their obsessions, OR it can be especially... crude and clumsy.


Makes sense:skellie:


----------



## Acrylic

I hate that I don't know any of the shorthand jargon being used here to fully piece together what's being said lol. I can piece it together without it... but knowing what Sx means would still add a lot to it haha.


----------



## Acrylic

NylonSmiles said:


> *AGGRESSIVE VIBRANCY
> 
> *That was the terminology someone used today when trying to find words to express the way my energy comes off.


Such a contrast with the neutral, clinically sterile and precise way you dispatched of someone earlier lol.


----------



## NylonSmiles

Despotic Ocelot said:


> Such a contrast with the neutral, clinically sterile and precise way you dispatched of someone earlier lol.


Is that why you edited out the Wednesday Addams comment, because you thought I might dispatch of you in a similar manner??


----------



## Acrylic

NylonSmiles said:


> Is that why you edited out the Wednesday Addams comment, because you thought I might dispatch of you in a similar manner??


Holy... how did you... are you invoking one of the 'functions' I don't know about yet? The auxiliary stacked intuitive tritype to the 10th power?

Are you... are you reading my mind right now...

https://youtu.be/EfRoLPFyLgc



No but actually haha, I saw in the exchange earlier that the person in your avatar is one Barbara Steele, so that's why I edited it. It was meant to be an observation on the aura you have.. but it's not actually you haha.


----------



## Neokortex

NylonSmiles said:


> @Neokortex, you turned a comment from my STEPDAD into something sexual and sullied it.


 You may genuinely lack this awareness so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. I've also seen that you identify as Sx last so that may be why your attempts to bond or have a more intimate connection come off sloppy and disrespectful. If you could just slow your roll that would be much appreciated![/QUOTE]

Hey, we have different standards on sullying. Now to think about it, if it was really your stepdad who told you that, I think, personally and subjectively, it makes it even more hilarious. Not to offend you in any way, I think it just adds to the humor - according to my sense of humor. I didn't take it seriously, obviously, mainly, because it's hard to miss Barbara Steele having her finger in her mouth and the multitude of connotations for "vibration". Of course I don't mean to involve your stepdad in it in any imaginable way. This was just me putting a spin on it and if you think of it scientifically, it may be worth capturing behavioral samples of all the INFP variations. If you don't volunteer bc you think it objectifies you then sure, no problem.



> You've also requested "lets get some sex!" to another user here and they tried to be polite about it but they did ask you to stop. I may be presumptuous but I'm sure there's another certain user on here that feels somewhat harassed by you but is also trying to be polite about it.


Okay, I read it all back. That line was the starter of the conversation. It didn't create any outrage. Last thing was, I confessed my sexual preferences as an example that a gut type Sx/Sp 1 is aware of them - could've been a bit but much for her - nevertheless, we had been talking about sexuality with her consent.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open for every possibilities. I even admit to "crassness," since I'm from an impoverished and really backwards environment. And having it forwardly is deliberate. Because I know what we have at home is way much worse. I try to subdue it but leave it just a bit trashy for the fun, still, it seems that more refined tastes can take it as deliberate vulgarism. I guess I need someone to teach me how to be refined and still be able to call that sexual tension off... in a gentlemanly and humorous way.


----------



## NylonSmiles

Neokortex said:


> You may genuinely lack this awareness so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. I've also seen that you identify as Sx last so that may be why your attempts to bond or have a more intimate connection come off sloppy and disrespectful. If you could just slow your roll that would be much appreciated!


Hey, we have different standards on sullying. Now to think about it, if it was really your stepdad who told you that, I think, personally and subjectively, it makes it even more hilarious. Not to offend you in any way, I think it just adds to the humor - according to my sense of humor. I didn't take it seriously, obviously, mainly, because it's hard to miss Barbara Steele having her finger in her mouth and the multitude of connotations for "vibration". Of course I don't mean to involve your stepdad in it in any imaginable way. This was just me putting a spin on it and if you think of it scientifically, it may be worth capturing behavioral samples of all the INFP variations. If you don't volunteer bc you think it objectifies you then sure, no problem.



Okay, I read it all back. That line was the starter of the conversation. It didn't create any outrage. Last thing was, I confessed my sexual preferences as an example that a gut type Sx/Sp 1 is aware of them - could've been a bit but much for her - nevertheless, we had been talking about sexuality with her consent.

Don't get me wrong, I'm open for every possibilities. I even admit to "crassness," since I'm from an impoverished and really backwards environment. And having it forwardly is deliberate. Because I know what we have at home is way much worse. I try to subdue it but leave it just a bit trashy for the fun, still, it seems that more refined tastes can take it as deliberate vulgarism. I guess I need someone to teach me how to be refined and still be able to call that sexual tension off... in a gentlemanly and humorous way.[/QUOTE]

​MY COMMENTS DOWN BELOW

@*Neokortex*, not every manifestation of Sx energy is sexual. He's referring to the same type of energy he noticed when I was a little girl and he thought I was going to grow up to be a lawyer lol because of how opinionated I was and how I'd argue my points passionately. I found it amusing and sweet how he was fumbling over his words to try to express that type of energy. This is the same person who referred to someone's intellect as a "bowl of knowledge."

The comment may have not caused any outrage, but this person thanked me when I called you out. Something to think about.

I've seen that you're capable of having civilized insightful discussion, I refer you to the comment you made a couple pages back about peer groups and sharing. That was good stuff!


----------



## 6007

Made some bath salts and had a bath. Cup of tea. Quite nice. 

It is odd to admit but I have a cohesive identity. 
I know I used to feel I was two people: at home me, and public me. I decided to be at home in the world and it has happened. I don't have multiple faces, I have one face. Granted knowing me better means seeing my volcanic, will cut your face off side, but it's not like I hide that. It just doesn't have a chance to be provoked all the time. 

Byron and I have found our groove. 
I think he was super ill at ease and wasn't sure where he stood with me. I have stopped running and being ambiguous and provoking his insecurities. It has been very good. 

I never really understood the movies or books before Byron. I never understood why people fought and were dramatic. I never understood why people would ride into war over a person, or would try to stay together despite insane obstacles. I was like "why would you bother if it's so damn hard?"

i moved to be with dead robot yes, a few times. But it wasn't a huge sacrifice. Had it been greater, I would've done it maybe, but probably because I didn't want to start over? I don't really remember him or us anymore. 

Im slowly ridding my home of his energy. 

Ive always been a messy person; I've been purging my home and tidying so much that I've inspired my friends to join in and fix their homes. Apparently I have a knack for it also, which is not something I anticipated. 

I believe in ridding my home of things I don't love to make space for things I do love. I cleaned out my closet to make space for Byron, so he doesn't have to live out of a suitcase. He's been helping me make this place a home. He's forged friendships, and has had people over; my house has had guests. None of them are my friends; somehow I still haven't had my own friends over except guests, but... The place is a home. It makes me happy he has friendships. I know he thrives in knowing others and holding court in his homes. He used to have people over regularly in his old home; here he respects my need for warning and occasional hiding in another room because I am too drained to host. Gods I'm a great hostess but not when I am introverting. It isn't for me. 

Being in love with an infj 6 is very different than being married to an istj 9. 
Energetically they are nothing alike; absolutely nothing in common. It's almost laughable--fuck it: it's totally laughable. I married my mother and now I'm dating someone who is similar to me, but way more social, without being an exhausting extravert. Talking to him is such a joy. Sharing day to day life is wonderful. Spending time apart is great too. He comes home and regales me with stories. I am able to travel a bit with other friends, and he can amuse himself here and we reconnect later, and cuddle and kiss and be sweet to each other. 

And we learned how to fight! We had a small fight and it resolved in between fifteen and thirty minutes. It was amazing, just like what I thought a fight should be like. We were both hungry and stressed out, and I'm self aware when we fight most of the time and immediately say sorry or explain why I did something and... He takes my word for it now. He knows where I am at, I know where he's at. It is really nice, to simply love. 

So I've been writing a lot more, and got notepads. And, now that my house is coming together... I've joined a gym. Last year was my mental health year. This year is my body and home health. Without meaning to, this year became Root Chakra as Fuck. I feel very much like I want to take good care of and invest in myself. I very much treasure my connection to Byron and spent 6 months easing into it, and getting it settled, and now I want to focus more on me. Regardless of my relationships with others, my own boundaries and health come first; oddly I am approaching it backward as hell but I'm doing it at least. 

intuitively it feels like I've been getting pieces in place one by one. My house, my habits, my health, etc. I'm investing in myself and my future. My business took the back seat the last two years And I am easing back into that role as boss woman. It's taking time. Caring for one issue at a time helps me get my bearings.


----------



## Donovan

Animal said:


> A lot of Sx-lasts identify as Sx-first because they're horny, but their attempts to connect are black and white, overdone, and more about getting laid or being forceful than making an actual connection.
> 
> Not trying to type anyone here. Just food for thought.
> 
> Everyone has all three instincts, but when Sx is in the last position it's either completely ignored or people are embarrassed by it and feel helpless with their obsessions, OR it can be especially... crude and clumsy.


i had something to say to this and now feel like i've lost it (i read the rest of the thread, thinking somehow it might add to the response). 

this is one of those near-dichotomies. in the way of seeing an over display of, say, extroverted thinking, can either be a sign of its dominance or its inferiority; periods and cycles of one's life, etc. 

i'm very black and white in terms of connection. usually, if i feel that the person will be a drain--as bad as it sounds--if i feel like i have to constantly acknowledge them, i'll just have minimal interaction. or if we've fought and they're convinced they're right, or are playing victim instead of owning up to their share, i'll just go about my own business in order to actually have the right sort of energy in order accomplish what i'm doing (most of my idiosyncrasies are work-related, as i don't really ever fight with the people i choose to hang out with--and, i don't always accomplish what was earlier stated; ignoring someone's passive aggressive bs can be difficult). i say this because i'm sure i would be viewed radically differently by those who do not actually know me--maybe more so than other people due to my nature--than in the way that i see myself. i find that my connections to others are very cause and effect related, until the point that our natural "effects" just sort of align in a way that doesn't breed conflict, and those are the people that i seek to spend my time with. 
... so, when that's not going on i'm really willing to be pretty friendly and open with people. but at the end i do default towards zoning out and being in my own sphere when around others, and then being more openly, or emotionally exuberant, around those that i could "align" with. 

it probably also helps that they are people that bring out that enthusiasm within me. that in itself probably plays into the lack of diversity within closer relationships, the lack of hot and cold, the lack of a want or need to reestablish a boundary, because no boundary is ever crossed. this is getting circular, and i'm just a tad drunk. so instead of repeating each paragraph in an attempt to make more sense like it'll just come to me if i go over it, i'll leave it. 


that either/or-dynamic is interesting though. it creeps up in every one of these dissections of a person's 'person'.


edit: 

actually, i do have one more thing to say in regards to this may tie into my own style of interaction. sometimes, and i mean a lot of times, i just really don't have the inclination to interact. i actually have a slight aversion or inner repulsion towards a connection. 
i should say though, this is usually when i'm not really feeling in control of myself or like i'm in control of the things in my environment that i personally need to be on top of. 
at those moments, and these periods can last as long as they need to, i do have a more internally visceral reaction to staunch a connection. i can have it be friendly, but i do not want it. it feels better to forgo it in order to draw into oneself, i guess.


----------



## Neokortex

NylonSmiles said:


> @*Neokortex*, not every manifestation of Sx energy is sexual. He's referring to the same type of energy he noticed when I was a little girl and he thought I was going to grow up to be a lawyer lol because of how opinionated I was and how I'd argue my points passionately. I found it amusing and sweet how he was fumbling over his words to try to express that type of energy. This is the same person who referred to someone's intellect as a "bowl of knowledge."
> 
> I've seen that you're capable of having civilized insightful discussion, I refer you to the comment you made a couple pages back about peer groups and sharing. That was good stuff!


Sure. We're more vibrant, aren't we? It's like we're set in a gear of more consumption, more liveliness... as if we burn more as well? Keeps reminding me of the _Blade Runner_ dialog between the android (humanoid robot, biologically made human, "replicant") and his master. The android says he needs more life, since their lifespan is limited to 4 years by design. And the master says that they can't change that because with their superhuman capabilities they're like a candle that burns brighter but also faster.

"The comment may have not caused any outrage, but this person thanked me when I called you out. Something to think about."

Yea, but she also thanked my last post to her. Then probably not for the TMI part, haha D

Oh, thanks, I'm now really starting to learn these SO types, and the dynamics between them and So blind spots.


----------



## Neokortex

Animal said:


> A lot of Sx-lasts identify as Sx-first because they're horny, but their attempts to connect are black and white, overdone, and more about getting laid or being forceful than making an *actual connection.*
> 
> Not trying to type anyone here. Just food for thought.
> 
> Everyone has all three instincts, but when Sx is in the last position it's either completely ignored or people are embarrassed by it and feel helpless with their obsessions, OR it can be especially... crude and clumsy.


Well culture plays also a big role in it. If that "actual connection" is expected to be on an emotional basis then yes, generally, with social subtypes it will come off as crude and clumsy. That's why I usually go for Sx NT types, since with them it doesn't work that way, you can actually have deep connection through thinking, brain-storming and talking about personal experiences. The deep emotional connection can come later - this is what I liked in some I met.


----------



## 6007

I have very little patience for people once I start feeling taken for granted. 
I don't know why I feel entitled to be appreciated but I do. 
I feel like my presence is a gift, but I feel other people gift me with theirs and I know it's valuable. I do a lot of stuff I don't like so I can spend time with people I do like. Apparently this is also not too common.


----------



## Animal

Neokortex said:


> Well culture plays also a big role in it. If that "actual connection" is expected to be on an emotional basis then yes, generally, with social subtypes it will come off as crude and clumsy. That's why I usually go for Sx NT types, since with them it doesn't work that way, you can actually have deep connection through thinking, brain-storming and talking about personal experiences. The deep emotional connection can come later - this is what I liked in some I met.


Sx isn't about a deep emotional connection - I think it would be impossible for anyone to develop a deep, emotional bond right away. That does happen over time, whether with friends, family or lovers.

But Sx is not about deep emotions - it's about instinct. And energy. And there is a constant scanning for energy connection, putting one's own energy out, locking in energetically. That is the Sx instinct.

Social doms can (characteristically) actually reach something more tender in people immediately because Soc is about warmth and bonding, though soc doms tend to spread that out more, rather than locking in on a singular energetic target the way Sx people do. So socials ca seem "always on, always connecting" but perhaps not with the excessive energetic 'penetrative vigor" of Sx.


Remember that instincts are not values. They are instincts. We learn to balance them but they are the most automatic, animalistic part of us. And with Sx being about targeting, conquering and luring, it is not a warm, "deep emotional" instinct; it's a conquering/submitting instinct; a hunger to connect energetically and consume. It can actually get in the way of real emotional bonding when it's too obsessive.


----------



## Occams Chainsaw

deleted


----------



## 6007

During a brief period of being unsettled with Byron I realized one of my acquaintances was attractive to me. 
I did not persue it or anything, because as long as I'm in a relationship that is not appropriate behavior. But we did have little chats here are and there. Now I'm in a good place with Byron and have learned this other person as a friend, just a friend, and I have discovered he's bisexual. Hahahahahaaaaaa

dude I swear if I'm attracted to anyone they are either bi, or a switch, or a freak like me. It's awesome. My instincts are the absolute bees knees.


----------



## Scarlet Eyes

What a severe creative block I'm going through. I wish I had some ideas but my mind feels so empty, blank, dull and uninspired. Maybe it's best to force the words out. I could write about this song that's moving me close to tears. Or how I've woken up to this strange pain in my hips. Or I could just scribble about this writer's block. But I've already wrote about it. 

Hm, but I guess anything can be captured on paper. I must simply set my mind to the task.


----------



## Little_Bird

Animal said:


> A lot of Sx-lasts identify as Sx-first because they're horny, but their attempts to connect are black and white, overdone, and more about getting laid or being forceful than making an actual connection.
> 
> Not trying to type anyone here. Just food for thought.
> 
> Everyone has all three instincts, but when Sx is in the last position it's either completely ignored or people are embarrassed by it and feel helpless with their obsessions, OR it can be especially... crude and clumsy.


Question, do you believe sx/sx is possible? I've gotten sx/sx/so before. 

And does everyone here believe that sx users equals, "we are more horny than the average human being"?? 

You know when I get weird sexual cravings? When I'm not connecting, or having satisfying profound relationships with people. It feels like an awful gaping hole, need, that's not being filled. Feels absolutely awful. It's the feeling that makes you roll around in bed and scream into a pillow, and reject meaningless sex super hard. (If you find it so strange to reject sex, then I'll enlighten you that not all sex makes you feel good afterwards. When the sweat dries, you're still gonna feel like shit). 

Sx energy is profound, passionate, encompassing, borderless, pleasureable, etc. Regardless of sex, and how you feel it. The point is that you feel it, you need it, and some people that are obviously not sx variants will feel like it's ONLY sexual energy, because they're unfamiliar with it.

I may be a little wrong, and I know that sx energy is an instinct, and to engage, etc. But it's definitely more than just wanting to express yourself through sex, and being horny.


----------



## Animal

Little_Bird said:


> Question, do you believe sx/sx is possible? I've gotten sx/sx/so before.
> 
> And does everyone here believe that sx users equals, "we are more horny than the average human being"??
> 
> You know when I get weird sexual cravings? When I'm not connecting, or having satisfying profound relationships with people. It feels like an awful gaping hole, need, that's not being filled. Feels absolutely awful. It's the feeling that makes you roll around in bed and scream into a pillow, and reject meaningless sex super hard. (If you find it so strange to reject sex, then I'll enlighten you that not all sex makes you feel good afterwards. When the sweat dries, you're still gonna feel like shit).
> 
> Sx energy is profound, passionate, encompassing, borderless, pleasureable, etc. Regardless of sex, and how you feel it. The point is that you feel it, you need it, and some people that are obviously not sx variants will feel like it's ONLY sexual energy, because they're unfamiliar with it.
> 
> I may be a little wrong, and I know that sx energy is an instinct, and to engage, etc. But it's definitely more than just wanting to express yourself through sex, and being horny.


I agree..

It's still an instinct based in sexual and predatory/prey type energy, but the pull of the instinct does not begin and end with sex. Humans are more complex than that, so it manifests in a more nuanced way if it's your first instinct.

As for Sx/Sx/So.. I don't know. You're just Sx/So . 

I've seen this post about instinct ranges.. that might be a thing.. but still you'd have a stack in order.

Socionics - the16types.info - The Three Ranges of Instinctual Stackings


----------



## Bunny

I (almost) always try to follow my instincts even if I know it might end badly.
It's like I feel this pull and it won't let go. I just have to go out there.

I'm aware of the consequences of it but I never seem to care.
If I feel it's important to me or the situation.

They're usually right too and I hate when I ignore it.

I feel like I can overwhelm some people unless they understand where my energy is coming from.

& I mean sure I have a highly sexual appetite but I only let that out on the person I am with.
I do enjoy being the "prey".


----------



## Eclipsed

Goodbye, PerC.


----------



## 6007

Apparently I have successfully rewired the reward centers in my brain. 
When I feel sad... I clean and organize. 
Tonight I got ideas for my office, and I moved some furniture around. 
Byron is at work so I have the evening to myself. He was a clingy monkey today and I was a grouch but I was sure to let him know my mood had nothing to do with him. 
Gods I love that man. 

El Diablo contacted me to let me know he misses me and that he's bored with his girlfriend and also that his work is stressing him out. I felt irritable for about two days after that small exchange.

I find him draining; I find him almost grotesque. 

I know it's not my place to judge but I pity him; he knows he's settling and so does his girlfriend. 

Why would anyone ever?

But some people have different needs and that isn't my business. However when he contacts me it becomes a momentary irritation for me. I would be happy if he would fall in love at some point, but I understand that isn't for everyone. I just suspect something about him, and I want him to be happy. I think he will be a devoted and doting partner, and I think the idea terrifies him. But I also think it will bring him happiness. So... Whatever. 

I asked Byron if he's ever dated someone he saw no future with. He was like

GROSS NO

I suppose Byron is a huge romantic and either a slut or a prude when single, it depends on his mood. But if he dates... He wants to be in love. I get it. I'm the same. 

His soul is so fundamentally familiar to mine. He is new to me somehow but as comfortable as a warm bath or a favorite and long forgotten song. I hope we will spend the rest of our lives together, and every life after this as well.


----------



## Superfluous

:kitteh:


----------



## Donovan

i wish people would follow suit and let things be... i don't someone's inquiry. i don't want to speak about anything personal unless we're having sex or we are close in other ways. you aren't privy to a fucking thing people... fuck off... oh my god. 

do people asking what's wrong ever strike you as an attempt to make themselves feel better? if they actually cared, they'd give you breadth and let you decompress on your own. they'd pull their heads' out of their own asses and back off, realizing that their feelings on your state are not greater in proportion to the state of your own feelings within your own life. 
the fucking entitlement of other people... 

if i wanted you to know something, i'd tell you about it. if i'm ignoring and sending clear messages by not even looking at you, then take a hint. don't get your feelings hurt, you have no right. just walk away, and i will do the same for you in the future. we don't know each other well enough to even begin... 
i'm already filled with rage, the last thing i want to is to cater to your fucking childish emotions that demand my attention. fuck... the... fuck... off. don't ask me questions, just see what there is to see by my non-verbal communication and be... _considerate_, lol... 
your attempt to squeeze something from me in order to rectify whatever problem you encountered by finding yourself among someone that is unhappy only makes me angrier. your lighthearted attempts at humor, while appreciated for what they are, are not permissible past the point where you have _an_ answer. maybe not _the_ answer you were looking for, but it's *an[/I] answer. take and it leave already. 

and never, ever, fucking involve yourself in my personal business. asking a "why" the first time is okay, i cannot fault you for that, but take the answer that you are given. what makes you think you can just keep pinging away, only to get upset after continuous fucking pinging? you're all like a puppy that just won't go away... 
i'd be so much happier to be ignored honestly. if i seek you out, then that is your decision to engage or not, and i will respect it. do the same for me, and if you don't, then accept what you're given as you were never promised something else from the beginning... from any person on this planet... 


oh my god... i want to be left alone by 90% of the worlds population. we can be polite, but really, i do not want your interaction. i do not need your interaction. don't get upset, just look to your own greener pastures. i'm obviously not the person you want to waste your time on; except for the fact that what i'm trying to--be left alone--is the first thing people will want to involve themselves with. 
and it's fucking selfish as hell. 
i'm not feeling well. i don't want your involvement. you're trying to get involved makes me want to fucking scream in your face until you run away. but now i have to deal with your "running away"--which is anything but. more like running to grab reinforcements... ugggggggghhadhfasdh;flasdjfkl;asdjkfl;ajsd'klgvjasd;lkgjnads;lkfj;adlsk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


fuck off already! really.*


----------



## Donovan

even the few family members i have here... i can't be mean to them. i just can't... but when hang out i'm all ready to be "happy" and "cool" for them... and then it begins.
it gets to the point where all i can do sit up straighter and exhale vehemently, raise my eyebrows, smile, and change the subject... y'all wanted to see me, i want to be left the fuck alone, but i'm trying to include you in my life... make it easy please. you don't have to know anything, and you can't/won't help to begin with, so _[/B]why fucking ask!!![/B]_? 
at least they follow suit and drop things... but it only makes me feel worse to be around people who love me, when i can't stand being around people in general. i try to meet things half way, by being courteous and trying to unite in a way that allows things to get done or facilitated, but--combining situations where those are close and those that are just bodies like myself--i'm really not willing to do anything other than the bare minimum as far as interaction goes. we won't have a conversation unless i can forget myself. it happens, but if it doesn't, pay me the same respect i'd pay you.................


my roommate is different. she's amazing with the moods of people. intuitively ignores and drops, or pries when even you didn't know you wanted prying. rage turns to calm. there isn't any pretending or repressing in order to maintain an appearance of functionality, the kind that allows you to have a life. 
just light-heartedness, which is why she has a say in... anything at all related to our home-life. actually, i'll cater myself to her sensibilities. she "get's it", so she deserves it... and she asks for _nothing_ in return. 
she's in debt--badly--and wants to go on this vegan diet (made me watch a few horrific documentaries as well). since i find myself eating her cooking on the regular, and since she can no longer eat the food i buy, in our apartment, we'll just both buy vegan/vegetarian cuisine and groceries. 
plus, when it comes down to it--after looking into it more--physiologically, it makes more sense. the normal functioning of the human body isn't really designed to ingest animal protein. you actively lose bone-mass from doing so. actually (this is the only soap-box info i'll push on you), the only reason dairy is considered such a large base in "recommended" diet, is to counteract the actions of our parathyroid, leaching calcium to counteract the acidity of the breakdown of the large quantities of what we normally eat. without it, dairy isn't necessary to function and be a healthy specimen. (no research needed for that, just piecing together my earlier classes from years ago...). 


other than that, i find people sometimes that i vibe with. they are so few and far between that i just have to try and initiate something. men, women, i don't care: if your presence makes me take my mind off this planet for a second, you are golden in my book. 
and there is a girl. not sure how i feel, which isn't an odd thing for me. i do know that i cannot possibly date anyone right now, and i'd hate to ruin something by trying. she'd get hurt, and i'd burn for it... and we'd just hate each other after everything was said and done. 
i am set on being her friend though... i trained her, which is something i always jump on at work (not having you walk around not knowing what you're doing, and not dealing with you not knowing what you're doing either). turns out she's an infj--yeah, she's heard of it, other than my boss (head boss), she's the only one--not sure what my type is (grandfather is convinced i'm some sort of xntj, but i think i'm just too unhealthy to type). 
she flirts--what seems like flirting--but then draws away. i don't get that, i really don't (do you want something or not?). she then walked around with a pen and paper collecting everyone's number. so i walked past her "accidentally opportunely", and she lowered her head and walked past me... okay. so today i walked up and handed her a note with my number on it, told her that it was so we wouldn't miss each other again at this bar she loves. she said, "it's about time that happened", and then went on to speak to every other guy there. so i dropped it. 
my jumping on it would just be trying something that i can't do. and while i do want to get to know her and spend time with her, i cannot be something sweet in a way that is compromising to myself right now. and i'm too weak to make any sort of move, but everything is crushing at the moment. everything that shouldn't matter, such the opinion of someone i value, is heartbreaking to even broach. anything that does matter, such as legal-status's and hoping my bosses can handle my temper, i have no problem grinning at. 

i can easily be reading into her actions, and we could easily just be friends and then a bittersweet weight is lifted. but at the same time, that'd make sense, as those that are sweet and "good" don't want a lot to do with me. 
the girls that like me are akin to those that blurt, randomly, as if they were planning their thought while shits hitting the fan such conversation is only as helpful as it lifts a person, "are you damaged? cause i'm totally into that" _*hands a menu as i just kind of stare for a second*_... 
the answer is yes, let's talk later. i'm busy now... but i'd rather forgo someone who likes me for all of my worst attributes. this person thinks i'm weird and sweet... that's more important to me. i feel like a child.


----------



## Donovan

so this won't be as drunk-fueled, and not as rage-fueled (the latter devastatingly encourages the other)... and there's more to that, more to come. 


i think my saving grace is "from the heart". i don't have to occlude another's energy in order to maintain control. "control", or peace, or the moving of everything in sequence, can come in other ways. and i will try and remember this. 
i spoke to someone tonight who's conversation only exemplified all of this. a researcher, out of work temporarily and a friend at a local bar... i told him in so many ways--because he said that optimism is irrational for a scientist--that 'optimism' is in fact irrational, until it takes hold and _makes_ your life rational. 
he is a wealth of information, and so went into a quote by jewish journalist named 'something-herchel (hertzel?), who spoke about the same. (gist was the nation-state of a jewish people that came from this belief over time)

"from the heart", is a lack of tapping into a darker self. it's laying yourself bare--not to anyone else, but to _you_. you must given into yourself; your _actual_ self. the person that you really are. 
i had this feeling while young. and i've had it when in my teenage years, when my lack of response or acknowledgement of the world forced my mother to get me on anti-depressants. but that feeling only came because i was so distraught, and chemicals forced it. i didn't find it on my own... 

but today, i felt like i did when i was on... a chemically-forced emotional state. i can count on three fingers in my entire life where this applied. 
it's something you have to force within yourself. you lay yourself bare to 'you', and you are laid bare to others. and you connect in a way that isn't something where you are 'above' or 'in control of' those in your surroundings. 
it's, for a split second, so painful--or what i consider to be pain--that you can almost turn away from it, and yet, if you just keep pushing, even if you have to drop or avert your eyes to do so, others will pick you up. they grab that tenuous cord that they can now see, and they connect it with their own. 
and then, you're just trading back and forth. you aren't dominating, you are giving... and that thought almost makes me want to scream, but that isn't a direction of my own strength--it's a misdirection of what i have. i can be sweet and accommodating. 
even if that movement on that cord that i'm throwing out to another, in that one second--in that split second--of falling to see what will happen makes me want to withdraw it in order to crush it, in order to pull it back and to throw my energy onto whatever is around me... i can instead give of 'me'. 


the person i work with who has autism... it was just him the other day, and he was really trying. i don't want to say, "even if he didn't have autism, it would have been hard", because he's very intelligent. he's working in his own way, but no one else would be doing a significantly better--or even _better_--job. 
he's really into teas. very specific. can't have certain ingredients, because they're bad for him. can't be certain flavors. 
and i don't who's more awkward, me or him, when giving or receiving gifts, but i went out and bought him a bunch of packets to flavor his water. 
of course i got it wrong, and he of course let me know (LOL!), but he was still really happy... he calls me "Mr. Donovan" (or, my first name with that moniker attached... hahahahaha, i'm like, "Baby, don't. You don't have to", but it's so cute to see him be even more courteous. i like him). 


and it's always women. that make me feel this way... they have so much control over my emotional sphere, whether they know it or not (or whether i allow them to know it or not). they are my saving grace, and that's where my heart is. for better or worse--and i mean, "very bad" versus "very good". 
i've never known anything to control me in such a way, and i really have never even known that that's what was happening...
but it also shows me that i can supplement what i get from them from what i already have within myself. just learning that, so... it's just a thought on the horizon. but i can be that sweet... even, as much as i hate this word being applied to me: "cute", in the way of personality and affectation. and it can be genuine within me. 
i didn't think i had that, except on accident, and even then i thought it was others seeing their own internal goodness projected onto me, because when or if i did something 'nice', they would attribute something within their own state to my actions, and see it through their own lens. 
but i think i have it too. and i can harness it, if i can control myself... even if sometimes a morose sort of anger is too great to do anything with other than stonily ignore people that consider me their friend, even if that broiling-ness of inner emotion is palpable and ready to play with my surroundings, i can be better than that. and happier for it too. 
and the people around me are happier for it too. not just happier because i'm not being a raging dick, but because i've actually enriched--even if only slightly--their own lives, through something as idle and ridiculous as silliness... (god forbid). 


but women. they do bring this out in me when i'm low, for now at least (until i don't need them nor it, but that could be the wrong thought to progress with). 
this girl is sweet. insecure in some ways--not in the usual negative connotation that word is associated with--but in a way where she openly speaks about and wears. quiet, but not quiet; just doing her own thing. 
when i'm around her i just can't even be myself. i feel like i shrink and dissolve. like surrendering could ever be something 'good'--for me. but it feels good _to_ surrender. and i can feel myself open... and i don't know what to do other than to throw that cord out and hope that it's caught. 
i don't want to control or "dominate" (*snip* just an urge to take something from a situation, even if it's ugly, or leave yous feeling such after the fact"... dominate doesn't cover it, and makes it sound lame stupid, when really it's just an urge to continuously form something using yourself as the battering-weapon, only to crush yourself in the process... it's like a positive feed-back cycle where nothing is won, but everything is hurt. where nothing is great enough in that moment, so more is sought and reached for, only to make that acquaintance with experience seem smaller, and so again, more is sought--and that 'flash' of transition is similar to how i can feel when throwing 'that cord out'... although, the only similarity is the transition that pushes in one direction or another... 

that negative-transition recedes though with certain people. and i know it from the first few hours of our getting "to know another"... 
i want to _them_ to be in charge. i don't want to decide anything, nor create "what is". i want them to show it to me with themselves. i want to back off enough to feel them change something within me. 
and it's great. it is so great. my mode and orientation shifts... 

so i played it "cool" and inquired. even though i cannot date anyone, i do still want to know if she's "taken", so i can know how best to go about knowing her.
i mentioned that "i hope you [she] gets to hang out with her boyfriend at the beach", as she was talking about taking a male friend there. she just balked, and spoke about how she doesn't have a boyfriend, and that a fuck-boy definitely wouldn't be that to her... hahaha... 
she then took our manager, who's supposedly enamored with me, by his shoulder (while leaning down a bit) and said, "actually, i like guys about his height. with muscles though", and just looked at me. 
i'm smart--_very_ fucking smart--but i'm still an idiot, because her comment hit me as if she made a comment about the weather. i was like, "oh... cool... (?) okay then..."
it didn't hit me until after that she was describing me (possibly?). she is a good bit taller than i am, which i find endearing. or, what i find endearing is how she throws a leg out to make us more equal in height, and leans in to speak. 
i think it's really cute in fact... 

but with people like her, i want them to lead things. i don't want nor let others lead anything in my life, not even other women i'm involved with... but if they can elicit this feeling of surrender from me, then i just have no idea what to do... in any other situation, including intimate areas where i don't exactly feel like this, i have no problem being the one to initiate or take charge (probably why all of my serious relationships have been women who seek me out, and attempt to snag me with all their womanly charms lol). 
but the catch-22 in this situation is that she seems more meek, and yet conversely stronger than most, and, if she's looking at all, due to the aforementioned "insecurity", is looking for me to do more to make it safe, while i'm looking for her to decide what things'll be. (and i don't like that word with her, it doesn't _fit_. can it be insecure if she's willing to lay out in front of everyone without drawing boundaries in hatefulness and anger and rage...? or is it just an acknowledgement of who she is, for better or worse? in other words: wisdom?"). 

i'm just going to go along with my initial thought: "from the heart" (i need to find a better way to phrase that)... 
i just want it to be non-imposing, as she's got a lot going on and it doesn't seem easy. hopefully i'll make it clear that, while i ask for her number, that it doesn't have to be _anything_ in particular. that i just want to know her, and for her to know me, in the end. to convey that i actually feel good around her, and that i don't feel good around most people in general... without that seeming as cruelly weak as it sounds to me in this moment. 
one of those things that thinking will just ruin. just have to "from the heart"-it, and let her be a free-thing, and do damage control after the fact haahahaha.


----------



## NylonSmiles

How am I supposed to follow my heart when it's still with you??


----------



## NylonSmiles

Fuuuuck! 

this song is my life.


----------



## SheWolf

What happens when your soul is too wild for Heaven...

But far too pure for Hell?


----------



## Rala

SheWolf said:


> What happens when your soul is too wild for Heaven...
> 
> But far too pure for Hell?


Fallen angel!


----------



## SheWolf

You dont know how badly I want to wake up as an animal...

I just want to shed my human skin. It doesn't suit me.


----------



## Neokortex

* *






SheWolf said:


> _I'm not for the faint of heart._
> 
> Nothing is a secret with me. I am a complete mess. Sometimes, I don't know what I want and then sometimes what I want can change on a dime or it can stay in place for a life. I'm impulsive, nervous, and my emotions are incredibly intense. I will push you just to see how much you can take, (...)
> 
> * *





Sounds like really high maintenance, lol.


SheWolf said:


> You dont know how badly I want to wake up as an animal...
> 
> I just want to shed my human skin. It doesn't suit me.


Animal? Of what kind?


----------



## Neokortex

Nothing1 said:


> I don't know what an sx rant is, but I won't pass up an opportunity to bitch either.


DDD


> Social dominates should be escorted to their own little island and then drowned (makes no sense and seems mean of me to say such crap). I ENJOY my thoughts and interests and if I _want_ to share them with others, I will, but inquiring of me what I'm doing, thinking, looking at will one day force me to stab someone in the eye. :exterminate: (...) My business isn't everyone's business. I like to compartmentalize my life, so get over it.


Sounds like what an So dom would say if I approached them out of the blue with my over-eager, over-excited inquiries that target with inappropriate questions about their private life.


----------



## SheWolf

Neokortex said:


> Sounds like really high maintenance, lol.
> 
> 
> Animal? Of what kind?


No, not really high maintenance. I actually don't expect that much other than not being fazed by my storminess at times. I don't like being constantly tended to, actually. 

And any kind, just about.


----------



## Animal

SheWolf said:


> You dont know how badly I want to wake up as an animal...
> 
> I just want to shed my human skin. It doesn't suit me.


This reminds me of an old tweet of mine. 

*27 Sep 2013
**What do I want, to have a cat or be a cat? To be what I am, yet not an animalistic human but an absolute animal, an undifferentiated savage.



*I was copying the format from another poem..but it's all my own words. 

Oh and this..


*27 Aug 2013*
*I keep hoping I'll wake up one day and be a tiger.*


.. damn that's almost exactly what you said, lol!

I've felt this way my whole life.


----------



## SheWolf

Animal said:


> This reminds me of an old tweet of mine.
> 
> *27 Sep 2013
> **What do I want, to have a cat or be a cat? To be what I am, yet not an animalistic human but an absolute animal, an undifferentiated savage.
> 
> 
> 
> *I was copying the format from another poem..but it's all my own words.
> 
> Oh and this..
> 
> 
> *27 Aug 2013*
> *I keep hoping I'll wake up one day and be a tiger.*
> 
> 
> .. damn that's almost exactly what you said, lol!
> 
> I've felt this way my whole life.


There are simply too many limitations and expectations associated with being a human. You're expected to fit in with society, work, follow rules....

Animals don't really have this.

I want to wake up as a wolf, or a cat, or even a bird. Just about anything really. No bugs though


----------



## Animal

SheWolf said:


> There are simply too many limitations and expectations associated with being a human. You're expected to fit in with society, work, follow rules....
> 
> Animals don't really have this.
> 
> I want to wake up as a wolf, or a cat, or even a bird. Just about anything really. No bugs though


Animals don't mistake their ideal self for their real self.
Animals don't play heart-games and mind-games.

If I were an animal I would be simple. I would just _be_. And I wouldn't have to diet in order to feel worthy of life. And I wouldn't think twice about killing, fucking or climbing anything I damn well please.


----------



## Bunny

I've had several dreams where I've turned into animals.
I think I'd love to be able to shape-shift into one at will but not permanently.
I don't feel as many limitations as you guys do I guess.
It would be a relief at times to be an animal and just simply be at one with nature. 
But I think that I have many freedoms as a human that I would not otherwise. 

Basically, I prefer the complexities of this body and mind.

As a kid I was actually very into cats (big and small) and I often wondered what it would be like to be one.


----------



## SheWolf

Animal said:


> Animals don't mistake their ideal self for their real self.
> Animals don't play heart-games and mind-games.
> 
> If I were an animal I would be simple. I would just _be_. And I wouldn't have to diet in order to feel worthy of life. And I wouldn't think twice about killing, fucking or climbing anything I damn well please.


Exactly. Animals... they just _are_. They are at one with the world and though it is harsh, it's _simple_.

They're powerful, too. They can run, jump, climb, fight, etc. in ways humans try so hard to imitate. I always found it funny how humans, by scientific definition, are "smarter" than animals.

_Are we really? _We destroy things as soon as we create them and then go on to destroy another thing. Animals don't have to do this. They understand probably more about the world than we do. 

_"The error in man is thinking nature is in our control and not the other way around."_ (Godzilla, 2014)



Wytch said:


> I've had several dreams where I've turned into animals.
> I think I'd love to be able to shape-shift into one at will but not permanently.
> I don't feel as many limitations as you guys do I guess.
> It would be a relief at times to be an animal and just simply be at one with nature.
> But I think that I have many freedoms as a human that I would not otherwise.
> 
> Basically, I prefer the complexities of this body and mind.
> 
> As a kid I was actually very into cats (big and small) and I often wondered what it would be like to be one.


I see little freedom in being human. Our bodies are weak, frail, and at times I believe we lack some sort of knowledge. Or perhaps we aren't lacking it, maybe we've simply forgotten it and suppressed it? At one point, we were more like animals and knew wholeness of soul, mind, and connection to the earth. But we've lost something...

And because we've lost it, we're destroying the world.


----------



## AddictiveMuse

I've discovered I'm very much a cat person 

I love all animals and I do love dogs but cats just get me. They know how to live and they are just so easy. 

I miss my BB










What I love most about animals is they don't judge. When they love you they love you with as much intensity as any human and the best part is they are unfailingly loyal. Even cats. 

We put her down about a two months ago now maybe. She had to have been sick for months and we didn't have a clue. I pegged her avoidance as jealousy as I was spending more time with the other animals. That wasn't it. We finally started getting worried when she didn't change. Then we sent her to the vets they couldn't find anything definitive but they did see this big mass around her stomach/that general area/*insert cat anatomy term that I don't know* 

I had a bad feeling throughout the whole ordeal. The second I started to get worried was the second I knew that she wasn't gonna be alright. 

We asked the vet that if it was anything bad if she could put her down then and there so she didn't have to go through the pain of healing and or trying to win a battle we were certain she just couldn't win. 

I had a dream a week before it all started that I believe was an indication that things were going to happen. In the two instances of death that I have experienced I've had dreams only days before. The first was for my grandmother. This time however in the dream I was given a cancer diagnosis. Of which I had no clue. I remember my dad telling me it had spread and I stood there confused and said "wait what the fuck?! I had CANCER?! YOU DIDNT FUCKING TELL ME? The fuck.." With my grandmother the dream directly involved her. I suppose with the cat I dreamt of myself because we were very much close. I laugh when I say she was my best friend because ultimately she's a cat. She only loves me because I give her food, cuddles and a home. Then I realise she very much loved me. 

I remember trying to lure her out under a bed so I could make her eat the food the vet gave her the night before the op. She didn't move. I got emotional and started crying whilst still lying on the floor trying to lure her. It was only then did she get up and out of the bed. She nudged me and gave me a headbutt and started purring.

It reminded me of when I was still a kid and she'd done the same thing. It moved me so much. It seemed like this grand gesture that said "I love you. It's okay" 

The other night that moment popped up in my mind and I looked up what the head butting thing meant. I always had an idea what it meant. I was right. But I never understood the significance. 

Only the alpha cat does the headbutt. The headbutt thing is basically them saying you're part of their little pack/family. The nudge not only says "I love you" but also "you smell bad. Here you gotta smell more like me". 

I don't think I'll find another cat like that. She was so gentle, playful with a tendency to bite even when she had teeth problems (she ended up getting 9 taken out. She kept her bottom canines. It looked funny as hell). 

I think she knew. The morning off the op she fought hard to stay out of the cage. 

The vet said the pain she would have been experiencing would have been excruciating. She kept up a strong front. She was a trooper. I wish I knew. I wish I could have saved her all of that. 

The most heartbreaking moment I think - which I never witnessed but merely heard about - was a couple days before when the cat was walking down the stairs and she actually fell on the last step. She never fell. I remember also talking to mum one morning and the cat wanted to jump up on the bed. Her back legs had gotten so weak by then that she couldn't make it. I didn't know the extent at the time so I was in shock when she tried to jump up and couldn't make it. Instinctively I threw out my hand and caught her back legs and feet and propped her up. Her claw ended up digging right into my palm and caused a pretty big cut. I didn't care. 

I've come to understand that the display of selflessness above is love. Love is caring for that person or thing regardless of the consequences. You will without a second thought protect your loved one even if it costs you your life or just makes a scratch on your hand. 

I wish it ended up scarring. It's a profound symbol of love and a bond that a human can have with an animal. 

I hate how I'm still hurting over this though. I like to put on a front of strength and being the cool and collected one. The person who's not too invested. I don't think it'll go. Admittedly I have regrets. She had a good life but I regret letting her go through all of that pain without once thinking 'maybe something's up' until it was too late. 

Regardless she's not in pain anymore. The best decision was the one we made and I do not regret it. As much as I want her back. 

Note to self: do not listen to Hopipola by Sigur Ros when writing this kind of depressing shit again.


----------



## SheWolf

It really bothers me that I've never had a real animal dream...

I do remember one dream that I was a white werewolf and I was running with a pack. That was the best dream I've ever had.

I like cats and cats like me for some reason. 

But I have to admit, I'm more of a dog person. I like their loyalty and acceptance. 

I had a half coyote/husky mix that 'adopted' me when I was a little girl. It was very protective of me and tried to pick me up by my shirt like I was a pup. Dogs and I just see the world in a similar way.

Also, my little foofer literally looks up to me like I'm her mama. So much trust and devotion. There are few humans who love me with such purity. 









This buttface loves me, too, just more so on his own terms.


----------



## Animal

My first cat and I had the same expression in every photo. Definitely a 4w3. 





























I learned most of my behavior from him.


----------



## Animal

I posted this in my typing thread so I might as well copy it here..

Me and my 7w6 kitty.


* *


----------



## Bunny

SheWolf said:


> I see little freedom in being human. Our bodies are weak, frail, and at times I believe we lack some sort of knowledge. Or perhaps we aren't lacking it, maybe we've simply forgotten it and suppressed it? At one point, we were more like animals and knew wholeness of soul, mind, and connection to the earth. But we've lost something...
> 
> And because we've lost it, we're destroying the world.


Technically we are still animals but that is beside the point.
Not all animals are as strong though and are actually much weaker than us.

I assume you are speaking of mostly predators in this case.

Maybe I'm too positive of a person, maybe I'm naive but I really do not see humans as "destroying the world".
I'm not saying there aren't many things we could improve on as a species but a lot of people out there are trying to save this world.
We do have the skills and knowledge to help and help our fellow animals.
I certainly wish more could be done but there are always ideas in motion by people who want nothing more than to keep this world going.
We, as humans, do have the power to use our knowledge for just as much "bad" as we do "good".

As an animal my life would be a lot more simpler/easier but I just don't want that.

There are many forms of intelligence and animals obviously have a different kind of it.
They can survive in situations many of us could not.
& Certainly there are some animals that are physically more powerful than us.

Humans have strengths that animals lack and vice versa.

I like the luxuries that come with being human, I mean that in many different ways.
My mind. My body may be "frail" but most of us will live longer than an animal will.
My ability to choose what I want to do in life.
To choose who I want to be with (in love, friends, family etc.).
Just... So many choices we have as humans that animals do not.
Not to mention things like medical care, abudance of food, entertainment, technology, etc.

I wish people didn't think of the world as such a terrible place sometimes.
I have nothing against it I just don't like seeing it.





AddictiveMuse said:


> I've come to understand that the display of selflessness above is love. Love is caring for that person or thing regardless of the consequences. You will without a second thought protect your loved one even if it costs you your life or just makes a scratch on your hand.


I agree with this  

& I'm real sorry about your cat.

* *


----------



## Bunny

@SheWolf I have actually had a dream before about being a werewolf as well.
I was an actual wolf once, it was pretty awesome. 
Also black jaguar in one, a shark and some kind of 'bird of prey' in another. It was so cool to be able to fly.
I may have been a house cat before but I'm forgetting all the details of it.
I _think_ that's it as far as me actually becoming animals in my dreams. That I can remember any way.




@Animal your kitty is adorable ^^


----------



## SheWolf

Wytch said:


> Technically we are still animals but that is beside the point.
> Not all animals are as strong though and are actually much weaker than us.
> 
> I assume you are speaking of mostly predators in this case.
> 
> Maybe I'm too positive of a person, maybe I'm naive but I really do not see humans as "destroying the world".
> I'm not saying there aren't many things we could improve on as a species but a lot of people out there are trying to save this world.
> We do have the skills and knowledge to help and help our fellow animals.
> I certainly wish more could be done but there are always ideas in motion by people who want nothing more than to keep this world going.
> We, as humans, do have the power to use our knowledge for just as much "bad" as we do "good".
> 
> As an animal my life would be a lot more simpler/easier but I just don't want that.
> 
> There are many forms of intelligence and animals obviously have a different kind of it.
> They can survive in situations many of us could not.
> & Certainly there are some animals that are physically more powerful than us.
> 
> Humans have strengths that animals lack and vice versa.
> 
> I like the luxuries that come with being human, I mean that in many different ways.
> My mind. My body may be "frail" but most of us will live longer than an animal will.
> My ability to choose what I want to do in life.
> To choose who I want to be with (in love, friends, family etc.).
> Just... So many choices we have as humans that animals do not.
> Not to mention things like medical care, abudance of food, entertainment, technology, etc.
> 
> I wish people didn't think of the world as such a terrible place sometimes.
> I have nothing against it I just don't like seeing it.


I am very pessimistic against humanity. I always have been.

Sure, we have the knowledge... but do we always use it wisely? No. If we did, there would be no war, no smog polluting our air, etc.

I tend to contemplate these things. At times it seems like for every step forward we take, we step on something else. So is progress really being made? We often think we're helping the world... but, the fact of the matter is, one man's hero is another's villain.

You can see this process in animals some, too. The wolf is no friend of the deer. But it's the circle of life and animals only take what they need. Humans step outside of this.

Even an animal that is "frail" such as a mouse is capable of things we are not. A hummingbird can fly at incredible speeds, being a beauty that is so fleeting and bright we can't help but admire them. Man looked to the birds in the sky and wanted to be just like them.

As for things like medical care and such...

I once heard a saying that basically said that animals do not fear death quite as we do. They are so in tune with the force of life that when it is their time, they go without much worry. They have no concept of time as we do, either. They take things day by day, therefore "living longer" is not as much of a worry. They do not know they are growing old, only that maybe something things about their body don't work like they expect it to. Humans hope to cling to life only because we desire to gain more things. 

But, ah, at the end of the day such musings mean little.


----------



## SheWolf

Wytch said:


> @*SheWolf* I have actually had a dream before about being a werewolf as well.
> I was an actual wolf once, it was pretty awesome.
> Also black jaguar in one, a shark and some kind of 'bird of prey' in another. It was so cool to be able to fly.
> I may have been a house cat before but I'm forgetting all the details of it.
> I _think_ that's it as far as me actually becoming animals in my dreams. That I can remember any way.


Lucky. :sad:

People talk about seeing their spirit animals in dreams. I haven't ever really. My dreams are just nonsense or nightmares. Very irritating.


----------



## Animal

Hmm @*Wytch*
I should probably mention my cat is not with me anymore..

Tragic.. :crying:


I hope he's still alive and thriving. It's a really long story.. he was my life and I raised him from when he was 5 weeks old, though I visited him every day from his birth. He suckled me and thought I was his mom even after 5 years.. but I had to give him away beause of illness and circumstances outside my control. I lost everything - my hair, my voice (my SECOND voice, the whispery one I would sing through, ).. my apartment , my boyfriend , my band, my cat - all in the span of a year.. but losing my cat is the thing that haunts me most..that I still cry over. He did end up in excellent hands and it was what was best to him (the only path that was fair to him).. but I'll never get over it.


----------



## Animal

@AddictiveMuse
Sorry about your cat too. *hugs*


----------



## SheWolf

@AddictiveMuse

I'm so sorry about your kitty...

I still miss my Daisy May. She was diagnosed with lymphoma and when her meds stopped working... it was just time. She went too soon, but she knew how much we all loved her and she didn't have to suffer. RIP, sweet girl. 








@Animal

The year my father died... we lost a lot too. First it was my sister's dog, Pablo. He had a rare immune disease... then her other dog, Vader, was hit by a car. I lost my parakeet of old age. Then Daisy... and then my sister's Pomeranian that she'd had since I was a baby died of old age.

We had to move out of the home that we bought, Mom had her stroke and almost (thank the gods) died. Yeah... it was rough.


----------



## Neokortex

AddictiveMuse said:


> I miss my BB
> 
> * *


Kittyyyyyyyyyy!!!!! :kitteh::laughing::tongue::typingneko::ball::chat02:uffer::fall::hampster::tongues:


----------



## Neokortex

SheWolf said:


> Exactly. Animals... they just are. They are at one with the world and though it is harsh, it's simple.





> Sure, we have the knowledge... but do we always use it wisely? No. If we did, there would be no war, no smog polluting our air, etc.



* *




There're still some nomadic tribes left, who live by gathering only, don't exhaust the soil, don't grow in numbers, don't have wealth disparity gaps, etc.. They live off by woraking merely 3 hours a day, i.e.: collecting food, hunting. Anthropologist Woodburn found that the Hadza children (from Tanzania, Africa) were in good health (Source: R. Robbins - _Cultural Anthro 2_). However, in another topic in my Anthro class, I saw a documentary where a militant tribe was superstitious enough to sacrifice the fingers of their women for the victory. In vegan tribes there's more equality between the sexes, though (for the lack of hunting).





> I tend to contemplate these things. At times it seems like for every step forward we take, we step on something else. So is progress really being made? We often think we're helping the world... but, the fact of the matter is, one man's hero is another's villain.


 DD Yeah, depends on your perspective... where you put your centers as a framework for reference...


> You can see this process in animals some, too. The wolf is no friend of the deer. But it's the circle of life and animals only take what they need. Humans step outside of this.


This reminds me of a literary movement called eco-criticism (that is: criticizing our anthropo-centric bias in our discourses of the world). There was a beautiful short story "Thinking Like a Mountain" by Aldo Leopold (1949) that remarkably captures this divide. 
* *
















> Even an animal that is "frail" such as a mouse is capable of things we are not. A hummingbird can fly at incredible speeds, being a beauty that is so fleeting and bright we can't help but admire them. Man looked to the birds in the sky and wanted to be
> just like them.


Nobody likes to be called a monkey, but it seems like we try to imitate (back-engineer) animals.


----------



## Bunny

SheWolf said:


> I am very pessimistic against humanity. I always have been.
> 
> Sure, we have the knowledge... but do we always use it wisely? No. If we did, there would be no war, no smog polluting our air, etc.
> 
> I tend to contemplate these things. At times it seems like for every step forward we take, we step on something else. So is progress really being made? We often think we're helping the world... but, the fact of the matter is, one man's hero is another's villain.
> 
> You can see this process in animals some, too. The wolf is no friend of the deer. But it's the circle of life and animals only take what they need. Humans step outside of this.
> 
> Even an animal that is "frail" such as a mouse is capable of things we are not. A hummingbird can fly at incredible speeds, being a beauty that is so fleeting and bright we can't help but admire them. Man looked to the birds in the sky and wanted to be just like them.
> 
> As for things like medical care and such...
> 
> I once heard a saying that basically said that animals do not fear death quite as we do. They are so in tune with the force of life that when it is their time, they go without much worry. They have no concept of time as we do, either. They take things day by day, therefore "living longer" is not as much of a worry. They do not know they are growing old, only that maybe something things about their body don't work like they expect it to. Humans hope to cling to life only because we desire to gain more things.
> 
> But, ah, at the end of the day such musings mean little.


This world is far from perfect (I know that) and yes, there are many negatives along with positives that we as a whole have done to this world andto ourselves.

A lot of it is just because we did not know, many people had no idea that what we've done could hurt the world.
Or other humans and animals.
I mean think about back when they thought cigarettes were good for you Lol.

There is always going to be that balance and it's such a difficult thing to measure.

Many people out there are still ignorant and are polluting the world but there are also many people out there trying to heal the world and help it stay alive and healthy. 

We can't go back and fix what we've already done but we can keep on working on sustaining what we have.

You may already be doing it but if you feel that strongly you'd could make a great career out of something that has to do with the environment.

As I've already stated animals have strengths we do not and we have strengths they do not.

I do realise that about animals and death but I honestly can never say for certain they wouldn't want to live a little longer.
Who knows really.
Many humans accept death and old age as well.

Personally, I want to live as long as I can because I like being me and I like this world.
I don't really care how it sounds but I don't want to get old and weak.
Maybe if I was an animal, I'd be content but knowing me.
Even as an animal I may want to live forever Lol.

I do understand what you are saying and I'm not trying to argue against it but this is just how I feel.

I get lost in thought too at times.



> Lucky.
> 
> People talk about seeing their spirit animals in dreams. I haven't ever really. My dreams are just nonsense or nightmares. Very irritating


Ah =/ nightmares are the worst.
I try my best to write down any dreams I have but I still forget parts of them or forget the whole dream if I wake-up and don't write it down right away.
Although some dreams will stay with me.

I've always had very vivd dreams, it's a curse and a blessing.
Because if I do have a nightmare (which is rare thankfully) then it can be really intense.

You may have had dreams of becoming animals before and just could not remember them when you wake-up.
I'm sure you will eventually have one you do remember 





@Animal I'm so sorry to hear all of that  that's just shattering but it is good to know that your kitty has a good home.

* *




A hug for you too.












@SheWolf

* *




Ah, you get a hug too.


----------



## throughtheroses

Apparently I'm an unintentionally sensual and flirtatious person. Excuse me for trying to have deep conversations with people and, at the same time, being naturally lighthearted and sweet. If I'm paying attention to what you're saying and/or joking around, that does not equate to "flirting". And I'm horrible at detecting when other people are flirting with _me,_ because I think they're just being nice or funny or actually caring about what I have to say. 

Also friendship issues. I guess this traces back to my unintentional flirting, but why does it seem like most of my male friends read more into our conversations and such? Again, it's not flirting to want to get to know your friends for who they truly are instead of some surface nonsense. 

And then there are my problems with holding down friends outside my core group from high school. I get so fixated on one person and then they're gone, disappearing into the mist. Part of that might be because I subconsciously pull away, but I can't be fully to blame here. Maybe I'm too intense for what people expect from their friends. Who knows?

And why do I feel sometimes that the more I get to know someone, the more I dislike them? Why do I have these ideals about how I want people to be, and why am I so disappointed when they're not?


----------



## Donovan

i like seeing all this talk of wanting to be an animal. 
when i was young it's what i wanted because i thought people were weak--or how they lived was, how they viewed themselves; they forgot the parts of themselves that was wild and fierce. they forgot that they are in fact a force in their own right. 
now, i want to be an animal because i don't want my mind to exist... 
i'd rather just be instincts "lost" in the woods. 

i was thinking yesterday, while at work and pandering--as that is what my job is to an extent--how nice it would be to actually live in tune with the talents of what my psyche is primed towards: toughing it. being faced with something that most people would either run from, or admit defeat, or attempt to gather help because, once again, they have forgotten that they already have whatever power at their beck and call needed to dig into what is in front of them. 
to let it crumble before their own primal inner selves... 
instead, life is like, "oh yeah, you still get to do all those things, but it's to fight off TAXES! oh my, and to PAY BILLS--ooohhhhh"; death-defying in a way, but not exactly what i had intended for myself... 


all of my animal dreams have either been running from some kind of monster, or teaming up with it to fight for mutual survival, or being malevolently awed by its power and unnerved by its want to protect me, or, some kind of comforting mentor that explains my faults through its own life story. 
someone explained this to me as repressed instincts manifesting in a vision that is worthy of their potency. the more repressed, the more torn into two different ways of life, the more exaggerated each side becomes until they war a bit with each other. 
it would explain the seamless transitions between sweet & compassionate, on towards fury & rage... 

but i've always felt more alive when being out in the wild. seeing others 'cry' over the weather, or how bugs are everywhere, or that their may be snakes in the water, "look out!"--giving into feebleness because a walk seems too long, or that they cannot possibly carry so much. or running towards the protection of what their human sides have come to see as salvation... 
i just wish i could find a job where someone would be like, "hey Donovan, we have a very difficult task for you that no one else wants to do because it seems hard and dangerous. you won't get any help by the way, but we will pay you very well"--i'd be like, "uh, hey current boss of mine? fuck off, i've got to go live for a while". 
someone told me once that my spirit animal would be a wolverine, and i think this was at once a compliment and an insult, as we did not get along. but i revel in each aspect of the comment, . 


p.s. @Animal, 

not much to do with the conversation at hand, but i swear your kid-pictures look exactly like my niece. we could be related going by looks, though i'm darker than you (one of the random ones in each nuclear family that gets the more shadowy features). 


sorry about everyone's animals. my dead aren't even something that i think about; human, or the long-removed kin (pets). i like that others can find some kind of sweetness in remembering. i'm not really the same though. if it just hurts then it just hurts. it's also kind of the reason i'm not getting too close to anything i guess; not just "death", but also just disappointment in general, in all it's various and magnificent forms. 
this little guy's cute, and i'd like to be a good daddy to him, but i also just don't want to or feel some serious compunction to get close either... he is adorable though. take a look.


----------



## Animal

@*Donovan*
My hair is pretty dark now. My skin is indeed pale, though. I also take tons of antibiotics so I have to be obsessive about sunscreen and staying out of scorching sun... but that means my skin is even paler now than it was before.

I have also gained at least 10 pounds since the second set of photos. Those were 2006-2011 and in 2012 I had a major resurgence of illness. Lost my hair, had been singing through my whisper but lost much of that capacity, etc. My hair has fallen out ever since; never recovered.

The first time I got sick was 1996... prior to that I had a Broadway, 100% grades on NYSSMA tests type of voice and enviable long thick hair down to my ass. My voice was reduced to a whisper permanently and most of my hair fell out with illness. It got stringy , thin etc and I had to keep cutting it. Around 2005-2011 it made a comeback, though never quite like it was the first time; but now it's worse than ever. I also managed to sing through my whisper around that time but now it's a lot more difficult if not impossible. I can't get some of the medicine I could get before due to Obamacare mandates forcing things on insurance companies, so that might be part of it.

Due to increased illness issues - I've also been exhausted and not exercising as much. But I'll try to bust through that; I don't need to be skinny like before (in fact I'm appreciating the mild curves I've grown) but I'd like to be muscular again. My hair - I do everything in my power (vitamins, good shampoo less often, all the rest) but the illness and I are at constant war here.


----------



## Donovan

Animal said:


> @*Donovan*
> My hair is pretty dark now. My skin is indeed pale, though. I also take tons of antibiotics so I have to be obsessive about sunscreen and staying out of scorching sun... but that means my skin is even paler now than it was before.
> 
> I have also gained at least 10 pounds since the second set of photos. Those were 2006-2011 and in 2012 I had a major resurgence of illness. Lost my hair, had been singing through my whisper but lost much of that capacity, etc. My hair has fallen out ever since; never recovered.
> 
> The first time I got sick was 1996... prior to that I had a Broadway, 100% grades on NYSSMA tests type of voice and enviable long thick hair down to my ass. My voice was reduced to a whisper permanently and most of my hair fell out with illness. It got stringy , thin etc and I had to keep cutting it. Around 2005-2011 it made a comeback, though never quite like it was the first time; but now it's worse than ever. I also managed to sing through my whisper around that time but now it's a lot more difficult if not impossible. I can't get some of the medicine I could get before due to Obamacare mandates forcing things on insurance companies, so that might be part of it.
> 
> Due to increased illness issues - I've also been exhausted and not exercising as much. But I'll try to bust through that; I don't need to be skinny like before (in fact I'm appreciating the mild curves I've grown) but I'd like to be muscular again. My hair - I do everything in my power (vitamins, good shampoo less often, all the rest) but the illness and I are at constant war here.



i'm sorry sweet one... i know that other peoples' opinions about something that is personal to an individual, are small in comparison to how that person themselves happens to feel. 
it's okay though, if that means anything. 

the other day a woman came in with a completely shaved head. i didn't want to stare, because she's probably used to staring for all the wrong reasons, but i was looking because she was beautiful.


... and we all think that we are ugly. even those that don't admit it, on some level they must be surprised every time a person shows interest, or sees whatever unique beauty that they hide away from others. 
i guess this is one of the few good things about all of us existing next to one another: we get to show those around us that they aren't as low as the way in which they see themselves...? 


nothing you've said though is bad. you've an artist's heart. that counts more than long black tresses.


----------



## Animal

Donovan said:


> i'm sorry sweet one... i know that other peoples' opinions about something that is personal to an individual, are small in comparison to how that person themselves happens to feel.
> it's okay though, if that means anything.
> 
> the other day a woman came in with a completely shaved head. i didn't want to stare, because she's probably used to staring for all the wrong reasons, but i was looking because she was beautiful.
> 
> 
> ... and we all think that we are ugly. even those that don't admit it, on some level they must be surprised every time a person shows interest, or sees whatever unique beauty that they hide away from others.
> i guess this is one of the few good things about all of us existing next to one another: we get to show those around us that they aren't as low as the way in which they see themselves...?
> 
> 
> nothing you've said though is bad. you've an artist's heart. that counts more than long black tresses.


:crying:  :happy:

I wouldn't look good with a shaved head - I don't have cheekbones. But.. I think I can at least keep the top layer of my hair, even if it has to be shorter than I want.

I miss doing photoshoots and video shoots and feeling good about it - but luckily I have a beautiful kitty now to photograph (my husband @Sun Daeva).. and he is part of me so I can still express myself through portraits that are meaningful 


I do still take pictures of myself, but "selfies" because it feels to me like a waste to set up a whole elaborate photoshoot just to be unhappy about my body in the end. I need my body to be an appropriate canvas and subject through which passion and art is expressed... I don't need to be perfect (never did) but I want to feel like the passion itself shines through and my "lack of [hair, muscles, vivacity]" is not getting in the way. 


Thank you though.


----------



## Donovan

Animal said:


> :crying:  :happy:
> 
> I wouldn't look good with a shaved head - I don't have cheekbones. But.. I think I can at least keep the top layer of my hair, even if it has to be shorter than I want.
> 
> I miss doing photoshoots and video shoots and feeling good about it - but luckily I have a beautiful kitty now to photograph (my husband @*Sun Daeva*).. and he is part of me so I can still express myself through portraits that are meaningful
> 
> 
> I do still take pictures of myself, but "selfies" because it feels to me like a waste to set up a whole elaborate photoshoot just to be unhappy about my body in the end. I need my body to be an appropriate canvas and subject through which passion and art is expressed... I don't need to be perfect (never did) but I want to feel like the passion itself shines through and my "lack of [hair, muscles, vivacity]" is not getting in the way.
> 
> 
> Thank you though.



ahhahahaha awe, you and Sun D. are adorable... and you're welcome Animal . 

i know that your perception is 'you' at the end of the day. not everyone is bright and sunny, nor should they be (i mean, how else would all the light-touched people of this world exalt without the contrast of a cooler appeal? would they even know how to cope in the end? lol). 
as long as a person's perception allows them to be happy, then it is a fitting perception... easier said than done at the end of the day, of course, but i think i've got time to get to a spot where you are. 

take care.


----------



## 6007

I want to gnaw on byron's bones but I also don't want him to die. 
Christ almighty the man and his dimples are fucking amazing.


----------



## Laguna

When someone {you care about} treats you like you are dead - it is a shitty feeling.
But if that is what makes them feel better about themselves - then good for them.


----------



## cinnabun

karmachameleon said:


> The horrible thing about being sx/sp and social last. I hate the dating thing and the getting to know someone. I just want to find someone right now and move fast. But I have to get to know people if I want to find a partner. The thought of it drains me. + just broke up with someone a while ago, and the thought of being with someone new actually disgusts me. They can be cool and I can be interested but when I imagine having sex with them it's just nothing compared to my ex. I feel nothing, just turned off. Fuck this sx pickiness.



Things _will _get better, time is an amazing healer. I know this won't help much right now, and it's probably not what you want to hear, but it's true. I've been there too. Once you get through that and just learn to be by yourself for a while, dating becomes much easier . Getting to know someone all over again, learning to love them, understanding their weird little quirks that make them them...it's so much fun. Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## karmachameleon

Rinnie said:


> Things _will _get better, time is an amazing healer. I know this won't help much right now, and it's probably not what you want to hear, but it's true. I've been there too. Once you get through that and just learn to be by yourself for a while, dating becomes much easier . Getting to know someone all over again, learning to love them, understanding their weird little quirks that make them them...it's so much fun. Hope you feel better soon.


Aw thank you, I appreciate that.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

Think this is an sx quote. God created the devil so there could be something that wasn't his. That wasn't just his reflection. 

“He longs—oh, how greatly He longs—to see His creature become fully itself, to stand up in its own reason and its own courage even against Him. But how can He tell it to do this? That would spoil all.
Whatever it did after that would only be one more step taken with Him. This is the one thing of all the things He desires in which He must have no finger. Do you think He is not weary of seeing nothing but Himself in all that He has made? If that contented Him, why should He create at all? To find the Other—the thing whose will is no longer His—that is Maleldil’s desire.”


----------



## 6007

It's interesting being around a man who is an infj. 
i find him relatable because we use all of the same cognitive functions, but since we use them in different order, it makes differences rather obvious. He surprisingly less self aware than I am, in several ways. I don't know if I should attribute this to my being female, or just random preference, or a difference in the cognitive function stacking. 

I definitely see the difference particularly in our extroverted feeling, and extroverted sensing. As I believe I've shared before, when he is stuck in his head and unhappy, going for a walk or doing physical activity makes him feel worse. He needs to be around the noise and distraction of other people, perhaps in a bar or a restaurant, not necessarily even interacting with people, although he is quite charming with everyone he meets. For me, when I am stuck in my head, I want to go for a walk or go lift something heavy or have a physical experience of some sort. sometimes the noise and crowdedness of other people make me feel anxious at those times. Much like he feels if he has to walk while he's feeling like crap.

he doesn't at all like talking about feelings, and while he feels them all, he doesn't always know from whence they came. He knows what he's feeling, not always why. I pretty much always know the feeling and the why, though it took me years of practice to get there. But Ti helps a lot with that. My mind is actually immensely helpful in understanding my emotional life, whereas some people would say that could be a barrier, in me it is a bridge. 

Sidenote: it really fucking annoys me when other thinker types tell me I'm in my head too much. Bitch shut up, I'm just as happy and productive as you are, and my relationships are thriving, so get out my face. And it's only people who haven't been in my presence for years, people who only see me a couple times every couple years. Oh yeah, you're an authority. :rolls eyes:

Fe ... It's good for interacting with others and discovering the self in relation to them. Se is good for understanding concrete experience and directly applying the self to the external world and discovering what is true and what works. But neither of the functions are expressly self-directed; they reveal the self in relation to what is outside the self. Ni seems particularly useless on the face of it for self understanding, yet I've noticed an uncanny ability within infj and intj to understand the entirety of a thing inside and out... But I wouldn't say it is the greatest for conceptualizing the self. Ti can touch the self with the mind so the filter will be skewered by thoughts and ideas, whereas body never lies. So it really does take those extraveted functions to know the self on some level it would seem, and Ti to express that insight and Ni to feel and contextualize it in a wholistic way. 

Dude why the fuck did I go into this khole. 

I really like infjs tho. They are so much less boring than other people. NF types overall just interest me more, with all their crazy variations. I would be immensely bored without them.


----------



## 6007

I had my feelings hurt today and it was like a small internal car crash or perhaps an earthquake. I didn't cry but I wanted to, but the tears didn't come and I don't force things. 

I find myself wondering if this is how people I deem "emotional" feel all the time. I wonder if they just have more ways to get their feelings hurt than I do. Like being covered in raw nerves that get poked at random all the time? I think most of mine died or something so I'm not easily triggered, but it can happen. And I am searching my mind and feelings and I think I know the common thread in every time I've been triggered. Ordinarily when I'm triggered, I tend to rage quit my relationships. I have totally aborted entire friendships for getting triggered once or twice. It just feels that bad. 

I wonder if that's how other people feel all the time? Because they seem to get hurt a lot and enraged and upset like daily. And for me it's not that common at all.


----------



## Faery

I was told today that "not everything is a competition." My response="What? Of course it is."


----------



## 6007

Faery said:


> I was told today that "not everything is a competition." My response="What? Of course it is."


i dont even understand this viewpoint at all, but i find it intriguing. 

it must make life more interesting. 

nothing is a competition to me, except with myself.


----------



## 6007

my life is fucking weird. 
when i think about how it has turned out, looking backwards into time it seems inevitable. 

but if you would have told teenage me about it I would have been like ?


----------



## 6007

also, i was really excited to have byron as a gym buddy but i dont think we are compatible. 

oh well. :/


----------



## Faery

ripley said:


> i dont even understand this viewpoint at all, but i find it intriguing.
> 
> it must make life more interesting.
> 
> nothing is a competition to me, except with myself.


With people close to me, I make bets about things that don't really matter. "If I'm right, I get (insert thing). If you're right, you get (insert thing)." It's a way to drive up tension, or something, I don't know. It's fun. I like challenges, even self-created ones. You're right, part of that competition is vs. myself. I'm not a sore loser, I just like to make things into games.


----------



## Faery

SX-doms, would it drive you crazy if your S/O has a proclaimed best friend of the opposite sex? (For me, yes).


----------



## Animal

Faery said:


> SX-doms, would it drive you crazy if your S/O has a proclaimed best friend of the opposite sex? (For me, yes).


No. I would never date someone who feels that way either. Most of my best friends are male. I'm not going to suddenly ditch people I've had excellent, non-sexual friendships with since age 11 , 15 and 18.. just because someone is insecure. I'm also not going to cut off a friendship with an ex from ten years ago when both of us are totally over each other and just friends, but have been to hell and back together as friends.

My husband has met all my close friends, male and female, and he gets along best with two of the men. I'm very obviously HIS, as my whole facebook is plastered with photos of us together, I write about how much I love him constantly on perc, and I make it no secret that we are married and madly in love. If he would still be insecure just because I had close friends before I met him, that would be kind of ridiculous. I mean.. if I was going to hook up with those friends I would have done it already. And as for my ex, if I wanted him 'in that way' I would have made it work when I had the chance; but I really didn't. So.... yeah, I don't see the point in someone controlling that type of stuff.

I do think it's fucked up when people have 'secret lives' away from their partner, like friends they won't introduce to their partner. My husband also introduces me to the important people in his life (though he's less social than I am)... and if he made new friends, even female friends, they would know about me. It's possible he'll get into the modeling business here, and I'll admit it makes me a bit insecure that I have a chronic illness & problems with my weight & hair falling out... and he would be working with the top most beautiful women. But, I trust him. So whenever I've told him something like that , he tells me how much he loves me and all the reasons he would never be able to replace me, and that their looks might be nice to look at but wouldn't measure up to our connection. When he has expressed insecurity about men in my life, I've told him the same. We both take responsibility for our own feelings and discuss them openly without trying to control each other or ruin each other's friendships.... and we both respect the others' feelings, and work through them patiently... without having to ruin friendships in our lives. I wouldn't have it any other way.


----------



## Faery

@Animal Understandable. Most of my friends are male too, and I didn't mean having opposite sex friends at all. If that bothered me, I'd be a huge hypocrite. I've been in relationships where they have opposite sex friends, ex's, etc, and I'm friends with ex's from years ago as well. I meant having one exclusive best friend dynamic, where that one on one connection is primary above all others, including the romantic relationship. I think there is a noticeable difference between having friends you're close with, and that *one* best friend who takes priority over everyone else. It could be that I prioritize my romantic relationship over friendships. That emotional closeness we have is my number one outlet for expression, and ideally that is returned. From personal experience it doesn't make me comfortable knowing that my s/o is calling another girl on the phone when he's upset, telling her things first, or saying he's sad because of her and/or misses her to me. I trust my gut feelings on that one, and it could be that I'm too demanding, but I want to be the one who is closest to their heart. I find some things going beyond the line of "best friend" and into "emotional/romantic intimacy". What I'm most curious about is where exactly the line is between close friendship and too intimate of territory, and it is all dependent on the individual. I want to be the first person they open up to about things, and who they have the deepest and most emotional closeness with.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Faery said:


> SX-doms, would it drive you crazy if your S/O has a proclaimed best friend of the opposite sex? (For me, yes).


Not Sx-dom, but it might bother me if my SO's best friend is someone other than me regardless of gender.^^;


----------



## Dangerose

Typing as sx-dom but very precariously so I don't think my instincts should be taken into account for this one

I never had a significant other. But I definitely understand your post, @Faery, if it feels like he is going to someone else first...that would bother _me_ [emphasis because I don't necessarily think it is something that should bother someone, it isn't a law of nature imo].

I struggle a little with this kind of thing in general, friendships and everything, I will sometimes feel guilty or jealous on my own account in certain cases, for instance when I was au pairing I sometimes felt uncomfortable, since I was in this role that mimics a sibling/parent relationship yet I wasn't. I felt like I shouldn't have been there in some way, or that I was betraying my brother or future children slightly. Exaggeration but I remember thinking, y'know, "I should be doing this [taking some walk] with my brother, not this other kid" or "I want to go to the zoo with my own children, not borrowed children" haha. I had to talk myself out of thinking that way, remind myself that no, my brother is still going to be my brother even if I play board games with another kid his age.

I also worry about like...having too many friends. Which is not a thing I'm in a position to worry about  But...bonds are different. They're not just different lengths or having different strength levels, they are made of different qualities. So it's not a thing to worry about.

In The Wasteland there's a line which I really like, "Stetson! You who were with me in the ships at Mylae: The corpse you planted last year in your garden, has it begun to sprout? Will it bloom this year?" Which of course the corpse part really sells it but there's something about "Stetson! You who were with me in the ships at Mylae" that really...the Battle of Mylae was in ancient Greece and the speaker of the poem appears to not be in ancient Greece, but I think with friends there can be a feeling of 'you were there for that', a chapter of your life can be linked with someone and they can be the most important person for that, even if it's just a blip in the screen, these connections last and are just different, you can have the Battle of Mylae with Stetson and that's it. 

Not sure if I'm making sense.

Anyways, not sure if I'd be jealous of a significant other having a close female friend. I think it would really depend on...how I felt about it. I mean what the quality of the bond seemed to be. I'm sure I wouldn't be jealous of close male friends, but thinking about female friends does make me uncomfortable just thinking about it.

I used a line in a story once, actually it was between Lancelot and Guinevere, it was..."He'll know," said Guinevere. "The way he loves me . . . look into my eyes, Lancelot. This day will always be there...a lovely spring day without him in it."

I hate that idea, that idea of there being days unreachable to me, unreachable to whoever I'm with. When I marry, I hope it is someone who belongs in all my days, and I belong in all of theirs. Otherwise there is distance. Something unreachable. Honestly, though, there is always going to be something unreachable, between any two people. We inhabit all kinds of universes, every day. The best you can hope for is a clear line going through it. 

But I might still get jealous anyway


----------



## Animal

Faery said:


> @*Animal* Understandable. Most of my friends are male too, and I didn't mean having opposite sex friends at all. If that bothered me, I'd be a huge hypocrite. I've been in relationships where they have opposite sex friends, ex's, etc, and I'm friends with ex's from years ago as well. I meant having one exclusive best friend dynamic, where that one on one connection is primary above all others, including the romantic relationship. I think there is a noticeable difference between having friends you're close with, and that *one* best friend who takes priority over everyone else. It could be that I prioritize my romantic relationship over friendships. That emotional closeness we have is my number one outlet for expression, and ideally that is returned. From personal experience it doesn't make me comfortable knowing that my s/o is calling another girl on the phone when he's upset, telling her things first, or saying he's sad because of her and/or misses her to me. I trust my gut feelings on that one, and it could be that I'm too demanding, but I want to be the one who is closest to their heart. I find some things going beyond the line of "best friend" and into "emotional/romantic intimacy". What I'm most curious about is where exactly the line is between close friendship and too intimate of territory, and it is all dependent on the individual. I want to be the first person they open up to about things, and who they have the deepest and most emotional closeness with.


I see. In that case I completely agree with you. I need to be number one in his life, and he is number one in mine. I wouldnt settle for less.


----------



## 6007

Faery said:


> SX-doms, would it drive you crazy if your S/O has a proclaimed best friend of the opposite sex? (For me, yes).


not really, unless he somehow seemed to prefer her sexually to me or used her to make me insecure? 

my ex dead robot had female friends and it didnt bug me. what the fuck do i care. if a guy wants to cheat he will and if he does, eventually i will find out maybe or ill leave him for some other reason. anyone who isnt my man is replacable.

basically if someone loves me why does anyone else matter?


----------



## 6007

i have had it all wrong. my entire life i actually believed people are supposed to care about each other, but suddenly i realize, all people really care about is themselves. 

if it benefits us to care about others, we will. otherwise, we go around talking loudly about our own feelings and diminish those of others, as if they aren't just as valid (news flash: no matter how stupid you think someone else's feelings are, it is valid to THEM), or having been rejected so much by others who cannot handle feelings, we keep them bottled up and don't trust anyone with them, especially not those who seem to care. 


so basically i have spent my life living a lie. i have genuinely cared for others, not realizing that isn't what we are supposed to do. we are supposed to use others for our own gain and discard them when they are no longer useful. we are supposed to be nice to them when it is convenient, and be cruel when it isn't. 


my fucking bad.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Faery said:


> SX-doms, would it drive you crazy if your S/O has a proclaimed best friend of the opposite sex? (For me, yes).


Woah. I didn't say he could have other friends! This is just terrible. 

Depends what you mean by best frien, based on your description to animal, yes. But my listed running friend is male. We usually day were best friends. I would say but husbands closer to me, and in a lot of ways he is, realistically though the friend has seen me evolve into the person I am, go through all of my awkward phases and has seen some of my darkest moments. (We met in the monkey bars in like third grade) so we've literally spent most of our lives together. I think there's some ways he gets me that I'm not sure if my husband could because of context or whatever, but there's a lot of ways my husband sees me that friend wouldn't have the context for because weve never had a romantic moment or whatever.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

Faery said:


> SX-doms, would it drive you crazy if your S/O has a proclaimed best friend of the opposite sex? (For me, yes).



Depends on the male honestly. Each person is different. 

And it's funny thatsx women in here say a lot of their friends are guys. I had a lot of girl friends. lol. I was the only guy at our lunch table in high school. lol. I sat with the girls a grade above me and we just gossiped and had a blast. So much funner than the men. And I didn't try to hit on any of them. I was oblivious to sex at that age. lol. Kind of regret it.

This site is somewhat of a continuation of that. I don't know the numbers but women have to far outweigh men on this site.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

And that's another thing about this site I said before. It has no testosterone. lol. It could be like a quilting forum. Which is fine but sometimes hard to adjust to. It is like an adrenaline dump. You go from one site where people are being really crude and hating on everything, to here. There is good drama on this forum though. The Enneagram subforum has the most drama. The Socionics subforum is the harshest forum. Its hostility is the only thing keeping it alive. lol.


----------



## kaleidoscope

Because there are some people who touch you as if you are beautiful, and at times that is the most unbearable thing that you can feel. And there are some people who are so much that you can’t look at them without feeling as if every nerve is pushing out of your body to try to touch his synapses, and you can’t tell if your body is betraying your heart or your heart is betraying your skin.

(Please don’t, above all,
plant me in your heart.
I grow too quick.)


----------



## Chesire Tower

ripley said:


> i have had it all wrong. my entire life i actually believed people are supposed to care about each other, but suddenly i realize, all people really care about is themselves.
> 
> if it benefits us to care about others, we will. otherwise, we go around talking loudly about our own feelings and diminish those of others, as if they aren't just as valid (news flash: no matter how stupid you think someone else's feelings are, it is valid to THEM), or having been rejected so much by others who cannot handle feelings, we keep them bottled up and don't trust anyone with them, especially not those who seem to care.
> 
> 
> so basically i have spent my life living a lie. i have genuinely cared for others, not realizing that isn't what we are supposed to do. we are supposed to use others for our own gain and discard them when they are no longer useful. we are supposed to be nice to them when it is convenient, and be cruel when it isn't.
> 
> 
> my fucking bad.


I'm really sorry that you have had so many shitty people in your life. I, of course, have as well but I've also had some amazing individuals come my way. Not all people are just out from themselves but I no longer have the time and energy to waste on those who are narcissistic and self-serving. Ironically, the more importance that I have placed on "self-care" instead of wasting it on emotional vampires who will never reciprocate; the happier and more contented, I am. :hug:


----------



## cinnabun

I feel like shit. I've been having a really shit time lately. I'm losing confidence, and becoming more insecure again. I wonder if it's because I've not told myself nice things in a good while....that's probably it. Otherwise, I have absolutely no idea why I'm becoming more unhappy. I still have great people in my life, me and my boyfriend are doing well....I think I've just been lacking in self care and need to get back into it. I'm not becoming the depressed mess that I was. I've been having a great time mentally since October. It won't go back to how it is, I won't let it. 

Shit sucks lol. Like a month ago I was normal and happy....meh. I need go to shower and put some more fake tan on, that makes me feel sexier xD.


----------



## 6007

Chesire Tower said:


> I'm really sorry that you have had so many shitty people in your life. I, of course, have as well but I've also had some amazing individuals come my way. Not all people are just out from themselves but I no longer have the time and energy to waste on those who are narcissistic and self-serving. Ironically, the more importance that I have placed on "self-care" instead of wasting it on emotional vampires who will never reciprocate; the happier and more contented, I am. :hug:


 it is amazing that we have to be told that self-care is the key to happiness, in reality all people should be raised to honor and respect their own boundaries and put themselves first. It's only from a full pitcher that we can fill anyone else's cups.


I was feeling disgruntled listening to my friend discuss his marriage, and so many selfish people who vent to me about their perspectives and feelings, using others or just being a dick for no apparent reason. on some level, I think I might actually be a little bit retarded or something, because I'm extremely idealistic, and generally kind. Sometimes in my one to one relationship so I can be a confused asshole so I do try to cut other people some slack because I'm not perfect either. i've been really lucky in my primary romantic relationship. It's been very rocky at times, it is even concerned outsiders because they're been moments where it was truly volatile. But my partner heals my heart and causes me to grow in a way that nobody else ever has.I feel really fortunate to have met him. I found my 1% unicorn baby.


----------



## 6007

recently I got in a fight with Byron and his need for space and my need for closeness and resolution were in direct conflict. I'm coming to realize that he and I both need space on a regular basis, and it's possible we create fights with each other just to get the space. I mentioned this in passing to him today, and he agreed that it sounded plausible. I decided to go on a vacation right in the middle of one of our fights, because I felt like it. So I took off for a couple days and visited my mom. It was definitely the right thing to do.

I got much-needed FaceTime with my mom and I got to see an old friend. What I liked about it was that I am beginning to realize that some of my angst in my life was really my own lack of understanding how people operate. Byron has really help me realize that sometimes people who love you are stupid and say mean things and are just obnoxious, and it's not personal, and it's not the end of the world. There have been times when I have burn bridges with people who I might not have needed to. Overall though, I do think that I ended mainly toxic and pointless relationships and I haven't been too over reactive. but there is been times that I found people's behavior pretty disillusioning and Byron has really help me to come to a place of catharsis inside of myself and it is possible that has something to do with my divorce and subsequent suicidal ideation's and general bottoming out behavior. I went to the dark place and I came back, so I guess it is pretty natural that my perspectives on things would change, deepen, and come from a more realistic point of view going forward.

all in all, I'm really happy with not only who I am but how my life turned out, and I'm very grateful I lived to see the last two years of my life. These last two years have been worth my entire life.

I mentioned to my mom that I was never particularly happy person and I never truly valued happiness either, and she said she always wondered if I would ever stop being an eeyore and that made me laugh. I have definitely never been an eeyore, but I can admit that I've never been the most giddily optimistic and bubbly personality you'll ever meet. But then again even my mom changes her perspectives on me every couple months. It doesn't matter, the bottom line is I was never happy, my brain didn't work, I just couldn't feel it no matter what. I think it's possible the antidepressants that I took for a few short months actually healed something with in my brain, either that or I'm a fucking walk in soul, which is just woo woo bullshit and I don't believe in it.

One thing is funny, my mom was looking at me and she said "your eyes don't look the same anymore, the color has changed."

it's funny because I was going to ask her if they look different, because in the last two years I have been getting compliments on how pretty my eyes are, and that has literally never happened in over 30 years of living.

shit is weird


----------



## Neokortex

karmachameleon said:


> The horrible thing about being sx/sp and social last. I hate the dating thing and the getting to know someone. I just want to find someone right now and move fast. But I have to get to know people if I want to find a partner. The thought of it drains me. + just broke up with someone a while ago, and the thought of being with someone new actually disgusts me. They can be cool and I can be interested but when I imagine having sex with them it's just nothing compared to my ex. I feel nothing, just turned off. Fuck this sx pickiness.


Don't blame it on Sx, though. Probably you've got a w5 on your E4. I think, suppose, that if you were more introverted with a w5 then you'd also be a somewhat more focused around creativity, creating artsy stuff, projects and not as much scattered if you had a w7 on your E6. I got dumped by a girl and so far summer's been a dry spell but I also feel that it wasn't all up to me, circumstances didn't bring in the right people. What you wrote sounds like you don't want another person for the sex you had with your ex is unimaginably uncomparable. I think it's rather the opposite that the matching personalities are not around, but there're plenty of sexy guys.

+ to think it even further... I think you girls should have it somewhat easier. Even as an So last, I'm sure a quite girl is more accepted into new groups and approached by guys then a loud, obnoxious guy as I am.


----------



## karmachameleon

Neokortex said:


> Don't blame it on Sx, though. Probably you've got a w5 on your E4. I think, suppose, that if you were more introverted with a w5 then you'd also be a somewhat more focused around creativity, creating artsy stuff, projects and not as much scattered if you had a w7 on your E6. I got dumped by a girl and so far summer's been a dry spell but I also feel that it wasn't all up to me, circumstances didn't bring in the right people. What you wrote sounds like you don't want another person for the sex you had with your ex is unimaginably uncomparable. I think it's rather the opposite that the matching personalities are not around, but there're plenty of sexy guys.
> 
> + to think it even further... I think you girls should have it somewhat easier. Even as an So last, I'm sure a quite girl is more accepted into new groups and approached by guys then a loud, obnoxious guy as I am.


It is sx related, though. I dont want just a "sexy guy". The sex i had with my ex was so amazing because the strong feelings I had/have. And im definitely not loud or obnoxious.


----------



## Neokortex

karmachameleon said:


> It is sx related, though. I dont want just a "sexy guy". The sex i had with my ex was so amazing because the strong feelings I had/have. And im definitely not loud or obnoxious.


You used the combination "Sx pickiness." I hazard you're having problems with penetrating the wrong people? Bc then that wouldn't fall under "pickiness". The ambiguity lies here: "I hate the dating thing and the getting to know someone. I just want to find someone right now and move fast." - getting to know the right person should be enjoyable, even if in a ritualistic way like dating and formal getting to know activities.


----------



## karmachameleon

Neokortex said:


> You used the combination "Sx pickiness." I hazard you're having problems with penetrating the wrong people? Bc then that wouldn't fall under "pickiness". The ambiguity lies here: "I hate the dating thing and the getting to know someone. I just want to find someone right now and move fast." - getting to know the right person should be enjoyable, even if in a ritualistic way like dating and formal getting to know activities.


Sx firsts are particular in chemistry and attraction with other people, more so than the other stackings. 
We dont like moving slow. We want to find someone right now that we have good chemistry with and merge immedietly.


----------



## Neokortex

karmachameleon said:


> Sx firsts are particular in chemistry and attraction with other people, more so than the other stackings.
> We dont like moving slow. We want to find someone right now that we have good chemistry with and merge immedietly.


DDD I agree the most. It was just yesterday when I talked to a girl, blurted out a bunch of personal specifics and in the end I realized she hasn't nearly told me anything about herself. What a rush in. What an idiot I was. I felt disgusted after this encounter with a real witch, sucking out my life force, energy vampire-like, whathaveyou. Urgh. But I've got a w7 telling me there's plenty of fish around; yes, I do want to get it done quick but like being somewhat opportunistic about it, like looking for activity clubs, reader fan clubs, outdoor team sport games clubs, whatnot just adds to the excitement. Fishing is good, mmm, even if nothing serious comes out of it. Yesteryear got myself indulged with the attention of... guess what, an ISTP Enneagram 4. Wow. Phew, man. She had a beatiful symmetrical face and she was like this So/Sx gimme yer attention, please!! Gimme gimme gimme! - kinda fuzzy drama girl. I met her and the others in the improv acting club. I particularly liked her girlfriend so I gave her the attention while getting her all so jealous D and working more for that attention. DD PP

Hey, btw, when it comes to sex, do emotions turn you on rather than physical sensations? Have you ever thought of them as merely illusions of your idealization? There's by default a prerequisite of connectivity to get there of course, a mutual familiarity of each other's emotional worlds, "aura", but in my case, I don't particularly need to be in love to have sex with someone. I think love develops from liking each other.


----------



## Neokortex

kaleidoscope said:


> Because there are some people who touch you as if you are beautiful, and at times that is the most unbearable thing that you can feel. And there are some people who are so much that you can’t look at them without feeling as if every nerve is pushing out of your body to try to touch his synapses, and you can’t tell if your body is betraying your heart or your heart is betraying your skin.
> 
> (Please don’t, above all,
> plant me in your heart.
> I grow too quick.)


Hey, whose boobie is on that picture? xDDD


----------



## 6007

It amazes me how intensely I want to kiss someone when they say or think something I like. 

I was talking to Byron briefly before bed and I thanked him for his perspective on an issue that has been troubling me. He is VERY good with people, and my relationships are often a major pain source for me. Anyone who has read anything Ive written on this forum knows I can be very internally dramatic and fucking derp to the point of too dumb to live at times once my heart is engaged. But his perspective was so comforting, so I hugged him and then I had to kiss him and kiss him until I was dizzy. 

Sometimes I want to kiss him until his lips bruise or he gets faint, and I love that sometimes we just exchange air, breathing each other in. But when he says something smart or useful it is just... arg. I want to devour him.


----------



## karmachameleon

I was thinking the other day that the only way for an sx first to get over someone is by seeing someone new they're attracted to. There's literally no other way. I always *need* to have a romantic interest that i fantisize about and idealize. So if I get out of a relationship while still being attracted to this person he will be the only one I think about until I find someone new to fantisize about. I have after a relationship found someone and we have seen eachother a bit and flirted and that's exciting for the time being, but if it stops before we have developed that bond then I will just go back to thinking about my ex.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

karmachameleon said:


> I was thinking the other day that the only way for an sx first to get over someone is by seeing someone new they're attracted to. There's literally no other way. I always *need* to have a romantic interest that i fantisize about and idealize. So if I get out of a relationship while still being attracted to this person he will be the only one I think about until I find someone new to fantisize about. I have after a relationship found someone and we have seen eachother a bit and flirted and that's exciting for the time being, but if it stops before we have developed that bond then I will just go back to thinking about my ex.


Im not sure if this is specifically an sx first thing...it may be more of a personal thing. The desire for intense connection, sure. To know someone and be known by them intimately, wholely, and intensely, sure. Before i found the love of my life, i desired this intensely. Thinking about having a deep connection like we have. There were other relationships that were mostly fun and amazing people, but it didnt work out for one reason or another. I dont think that i typically thought about them romantically after it fell apart, but more longed for the right connection that wouldnt fall apart. 

In my experience, one of the most painful things is loving someone and knowing their amazing and yet seeing exactly why it wont work and having to end it. That goes against ever fiber of my being and yet, sometimes that needed to happen. 

Id much rather not be in a relationship than settle for less than i desire from one though. I see it more as a quality vs quantity thing. I choose quality everytime. Luckily, i found someone who i could share anything with whose honest, open, understanding, thoughtful and kind. 

He challenges me and pushes me to be a better person. I honestly dont think i could get over him if anything ever happened. Even if it were possible to move on. Hed always have a huge place in my heart and hes already impacting who i will be. I think the difference is that this relationship is my perfect dream, even with all of its imperfections. Its real and tangible and literally everything i ever wanted.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Double post.


----------



## Eclipsed

So, I've officially moved 1000km away from home for university. :shocked:

I feel something akin to sense of release. Not quite freedom, but freedom all the same. A lot of the things I was worried about before I came here don't seem to matter anymore.

For one, I'm not in a rush to make friends now that I've realized most of the people in my building are scum. I'm definitely not interested in making nice with people I don't like, which strangely takes away a lot of the pressure to fit in- because honestly, I'd rather not. Three years ago, I could have said the same thing, but still felt the anxiety. This is nice surprise. I never wanted to deal with any of that bullshit anyway. I'm perfectly happy being by myself.

I haven't experienced any life-changing revelations yet, and that's just fine by me. I feel relaxed in a very strange way, in the sense that I'm satisfied with simply trying to do well in school and spending time with the person I love. Now that I'm here, I'm finding that I simply don't give enough of a shit to pressure myself to pursue art, writing, and whatever else like I did before. I hate to say it but... out of sight, out of mind. It feels good, though. Maybe I'll find my voice here, and maybe I won't. But right now, I really just want to fucking live and deal with the problems as they come.

I have no idea why I'm posting here, and I may have lost my "spark" but that's okay with me. I'd rather not stay in the darkness fumbling around and trying to find it because it's not in the same place it was before regardless. I need to move on. The only way out is through and I'll find out what's waiting at the end of the tunnel for me soon enough.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Sometimes when all is quiet, in existential dread i start to wonder if a place and its inhabitants exist. It's a garden or maybe a city i've read about, a place i've longed for in my soul. The darkest and furthest parts of my soul wonder at an age old question. 

There is a storm around you, youre covered in lightning and thunderings, clothed in light, seated on a sea of glass mingled with fire, seen in and throughout, your hair is white as wool and when you speak, it sounds like waters. There are creatures around you, and incense before you, your eyes burn with flames of fire and you hold seven candle sticks of fire in your hand. 

Such a place must not be real. You must not be. Yet when i picture you, or remember that place, it haunts me.


----------



## kaleidoscope

It's 2AM and I just have this overwhelming urge to just run outside. There's a school right next to where I live, and there are swings. I fucking love swings. I can't help it. I really need to get out of this apartment and just take in the stillness of the night. Just bask in that realization and the beautiful alone-ness of it: everything and everyone around me is asleep. I'm feeling so much right now that my heart is swelling, it feels too big for my chest. I have this unbearable longing inside me, wanting you to join me. Just sit next to me. Don't talk, don't say anything. Don't make me say anything. Just be. Just sit with those emotions, whatever you're feeling, sit with me, as the world slows down and then stops. 










.. Well, fuck it, I'm going outside.


----------



## Neokortex

daleks_exterminate said:


> Im not sure if this is specifically an sx first thing...it may be more of a personal thing. (...)
> 
> Id much rather not be in a relationship than settle for less than i desire from one though. I see it more as a quality vs quantity thing. I choose quality everytime.


Same here.



> He challenges me and pushes me to be a better person. I honestly dont think i could get over him if anything ever happened. Even if it were possible to move on. Hed always have a huge place in my heart and hes already impacting who i will be. I think the difference is that this relationship is my perfect dream, even with all of its imperfections. Its real and tangible and literally everything i ever wanted.


Yeah, that possible learning curve seems to be a prerequisite. But do you also challenge him, keep him to learn or discover more? I'm a bit more doubtful about the "4ever" part, you'll get over him, I think, after you acquaire his knowledge/ability, whatever that you don't have know, the lack of which prevents you from fully seeing him through. It may be just that you need to gain more confidence with whatever you already have in you. I, for once, don't like girls looking up at me in total awe. Without that challenge it's just stale waters.


----------



## Pifanjr

Neokortex said:


> Hmh, hmh, a beautifully written post. I mean the autist finds true love story. I remember watching _Adam_ (2009), aspie story with not the brightest of endings but still, he is shown getting over it and moving on. You kind of answered my question about challenging him and not. It must not have been easy for you two, for all I know about autism. But there's the obverse always to be looked at: will he find you challenging enough, will he grow beyond after a while and decide to part?
> 
> You strongly present the perspective of a recipient in your writing. That you're grateful for him. But when you say that love is a choice, and if we add that "intensity" of Sx-firsts into that... I think love, then, really becomes a two way street. Except when some people don't measure reciprocation as strictly as my E6 does, haha. You gotta be able to give him something (besides sex) that it's worth his time, that it's worth fighting for, for him. Unless it would sound like a pillow princess story DD.


She gives me the opportunity to open up, which I haven't been able to do with anyone else. The space to be myself, while challenging me to step outside of my boundaries. Someone I can talk to about anything without fear of judgment. Someone I can share my life with.

She also challenges me to grow in the areas I'm currently lacking in, like accounting for other people while making plans or doing things, communicating my desires and expressing my thoughts. Things I might have figured out eventually by myself (or maybe not), but with her help I've grown a ton in these areas, with still a lot of room for improvement.


----------



## Dora

ripley said:


> *an acquaintance has herpes, and is afraid to leave partner, who also has herpes. Had to tell this person he is an asshole and *herpes isnt a good enough reason to date*


This is a gem:laughing:


----------



## 6007

Dora said:


> This is a gem:laughing:


I am glad you enjoyed it, I found it pretty amusing as well


----------



## 6007

inabox said:


> @*ripley* you know I used to think there were healthy unhealthy people ... now ... I think people usually just fall into a spectrum. According to socionics ISTP(ISTj in socionics) and ENFPs have what is called a conflict relationship; usually just by being ourselves, we manage to piss each other off.
> 
> I have had issues with my long term ISTj friend over the years over ethical issues; Fe users don't see loyalty or well camaraderie the way Fi users do; basically often if we dislike someone or things they do, we'll avoid them; Fe users will more or less be like, oh well, this person, I can drink with. However, what keeps my friendship with my ISTj friend going is her forgiveness, our mutual efforts to be understanding and kind to each other and reach out to each other; and often, give each other plenty of space. We also like making the other person laugh <3 . She's the person I go to when I need a kick in the ass (I need straight talk from my Se valuing friends, sometimes); if she's being very honest, to the point of ignoring my feelings, I know that she's doing it because she cares; and I'm the one who makes her feel okay about not being 'emotional' in the way that is expected of women in society; I make her remember that she should forgive herself and be compassionate towards herself (ie I give her relationship advice and NF stuff) . <3 It takes balance but sometimes when you find a person worth keeping in your life and they want to hold on to you, you damn well should grab them back  . You may never find that with another ENFP but I reckon that you might have that kind of bond with other people in your life.


thank you for sharing your perspective! this was an awesome read. 

Ok so... I know I use Fe, but I avoid people who impact my energy negatively. As I've definitely admitted a few times if memory serves, inferior Fe is dramatic as shit, albeit in an alone in my house imploding or punch someone in the face way. Certain people make me feel intruded upon to such a degree that I feel like I am covered in fire ants. This anxious and insecure ENFP is one of them. I try VERY hard to guard my energy and be tolerant and accepting, because one of my strengths can be my impartiality. so many people confide in me because I don't take sides, and I don't get emotionally engaged. But there are exceptions, and there are times when I am so stupid when it comes to other people that I don't even recognize who I am. My fighting with Byron at first felt immensely toxic, but ended up being weirdly cathartic. 

I may yet come to that point with this friend. I dont want to keep cutting people out because it's easier than growing, or because I'm too emotionally immature to handle it, or because I'm over inflating the danger on some level. I am ready to grow and cool with being flexible. But the conflict feels uncomfortable for me, and I am totally avoiding her. 

I am not the type of person who wants to take cheap emotional shots at people who have been real with me. I am not the kind of person who will end a friendship by saying a bunch of mean things to somebody. There's enough hurt in the world, and I don't want to contribute to it. I definitely don't like a lot of the things this woman says or does, I believe in her right to live as she sees fit. I don't judge her, or at least I don't resent her for being different. I just don't like some of the stuff she does and I wouldn't do it myself. I don't find it endearing or relatable, I find it malicious and unkind and overwhelmingly self-centered. She admits to people that she is selfish. she totally wants her mom to drop dead already, because she doesn't want to take care of her, and also because she wants more financial resources and her mom's death will make more money available to her. parental issues are fraught with emotion, which I understand. me personally, hearing her say that stuff makes me want to throw up. She's dating a guy who has a dead girlfriend, and she totally competes with this dead girlfriend. It is really awkward. there is nothing about her that I understand on an intuitive inside out level. Part of me appreciates that she challenges my empathy, and another part of me is quite exhausted because I am pushing on my empathy to try to understand her point of view. As she is, she's not enjoyable enough to simply enjoy without dissecting. some people you don't need to understand, you just enjoy them like an act of nature. Other people are quite challenging, not extremely lovable, yet intriguing enough to keep you interested. I find her extremely confusing.

if my motto is live and let live hers is, do it my way or I will fight you and get in your face about it. she is very argumentative, and can't let anyone be different than herself it is fucking crazy.


i relate more to istp in socionics based on description, but descriptions arent always accurate i know.


----------



## 6007

Byron bought several candles and it made me really happy. 
Since he moved in with me, he hasnt moved into the master closet yet, and hasn't really bought any furniture. So the little contributions he makes here and there seem to touch my heart in this quiet and sweet way.
I burn a lot of candles. … I am obsessed with candles.
my home isn't mine in the sense that I own it. But since I've been here, it talks to me. I can't explain how or why, but I know what it needs. this place is prone to a lot of trapped energy. I myself do not like stagnation, and neither does this house. It definitely likes me to declutter, light candles, play music, and open windows. 
I was talking to my INFP Neighbor and mentioned to him that I feel like this house get stagnant energy a lot. I like him because he's woo woo too. He mentioned hearing that these units are cursed, that every couple whoever lives here breaks up. In fact, my landlord moved out because they were starting to divorce almost.

when I moved in I did a lot of prayer, lighting sage, and lighting salt, and Palo Santo. it definitely help me to break up the energy even if only psychologically. I really love going into the living room and seeing Byron with a lit candle playing music and doing his stuff on the computer. I feel like his invitations toward guests to come over and hang out keep the energy fresh in the home as well. Overall when we get along there is a mellow sweetness to our interactions. plus weirdness. which i love


----------



## Laguna

When everyone thinks the accepting, happy go-lucky ENFP will always be that way. Even when you are a bitch once, twice, three times. 

AHHHHH
but 3x is the charm.

And then you are dead to the ENFP. ENFP does not acknowledge your existence in any way shape or form.
NADA.

And then you are all:
:shocked:
and then
:angry:
and then

and then
:sad:
and then
:anyone:
and then
:bi_polo:
And then ENFP is all
:violin:
:rolling:
:stupid:
:words:

:wrecking_ball_viza_
:skunk:
enguin:
:winetime:
:nevreness:
That's how we roll. :rolling::rolling:


----------



## 6007

Laguna said:


> When everyone thinks the accepting, happy go-lucky ENFP will always be that way. Even when you are a bitch once, twice, three times.
> 
> AHHHHH
> but 3x is the charm.
> 
> And then you are dead to the ENFP. ENFP does not acknowledge your existence in any way shape or form.
> NADA.
> 
> And then you are all:
> :shocked:
> and then
> :angry:
> and then
> 
> and then
> :sad:
> and then
> :anyone:
> and then
> :bi_polo:
> And then ENFP is all
> :violin:
> :rolling:
> :stupid:
> :words:
> 
> :wrecking_ball_viza_
> :skunk:
> enguin:
> :winetime:
> :nevreness:
> That's how we roll. :rolling::rolling:


I have literally always rejoiced when enfp goes away.


----------



## 6007

one of my friends has tested as both infj and istp and considers herself an infj. 

I do not give a fuck which she is, but holy shit, I fucking love this girl. 

It is so easy to talk to her, she is no nonsense, just super fucking cool. 

girl crush alert


----------



## Laguna

ripley said:


> I have literally always rejoiced when enfp goes away.


lol! Well of course you have, ISTP.


----------



## 6007

Laguna said:


> lol! Well of course you have, ISTP.


bahahaaaahahaha


i like you


----------



## Laguna

ripley said:


> bahahaaaahahaha
> 
> 
> i like you


 thanks- ENFPs like everyone


----------



## kaleidoscope

Laguna said:


> When everyone thinks the accepting, happy go-lucky ENFP will always be that way. Even when you are a bitch once, twice, three times.
> 
> AHHHHH
> but 3x is the charm.
> 
> And then you are dead to the ENFP. ENFP does not acknowledge your existence in any way shape or form.
> NADA.
> 
> And then you are all:
> :shocked:
> and then
> :angry:
> and then
> 
> and then
> :sad:
> and then
> :anyone:
> and then
> :bi_polo:
> And then ENFP is all
> :violin:
> :rolling:
> :stupid:
> :words:
> 
> :wrecking_ball_viza_
> :skunk:
> enguin:
> :winetime:
> :nevreness:
> That's how we roll. :rolling::rolling:


Hahahaha, this is *perfect*. Totally my process, too. Once I'm done with you, I'm _done_. I'll go play with others while you rage and stomp your feet and desperately demand my attention.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Laguna said:


> When everyone thinks the accepting, happy go-lucky ENFP will always be that way. Even when you are a bitch once, twice, three times.
> 
> AHHHHH
> but 3x is the charm.
> 
> And then you are dead to the ENFP. ENFP does not acknowledge your existence in any way shape or form.
> NADA.
> 
> And then you are all:
> :shocked:
> and then
> :angry:
> and then
> 
> and then
> :sad:
> and then
> :anyone:
> and then
> :bi_polo:
> And then ENFP is all
> :violin:
> :rolling:
> :stupid:
> :words:
> 
> :wrecking_ball_viza_
> :skunk:
> enguin:
> :winetime:
> :nevreness:
> That's how we roll. :rolling::rolling:


I enjoy when they finally go find other shiny things and finally go away.


----------



## Ace Face

daleks_exterminate said:


> I too enjoy when they finally go find other shiny things and finally go away.


Do you really consider yourself shiny though?


* *


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Ace Face said:


> Do you really consider yourself shiny though?
> 
> 
> * *


I prefer to make other people shiny. :wink:
https://shipyourenemiesglitter.com


----------



## Laguna

daleks_exterminate said:


> I enjoy when they finally go find other shiny things and finally go away.


You can't handle that we can keep up with debating you.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

Laguna said:


> You can't handle that we can keep up with debating you.


Can you? I stop listening...


----------



## 6007

Laguna said:


> thanks- Ripley is god


fixed it for you


----------



## Laguna

ripley said:


> fixed it for you


Okay- is faking a quote as if I wrote it even legal on this forum? I'm thinking it breaks forum rules.


----------



## mangodelic psycho

Isnt it interesting to be sx and not have any sort of F in your two first functions. It's a weird combination.


----------



## mangodelic psycho

Laguna said:


> Okay- is faking a quote as if I wrote it even legal on this forum? I'm thinking it breaks forum rules.


 Being ISTP I'm sure @*ripley* has other, _more illegal _stuff to worry about


----------



## inabox

Laguna said:


> When everyone thinks the accepting, happy go-lucky ENFP will always be that way. Even when you are a bitch once, twice, three times.
> 
> AHHHHH
> but 3x is the charm.
> 
> And then you are dead to the ENFP. ENFP does not acknowledge your existence in any way shape or form.
> NADA.
> 
> And then you are all:
> :shocked:
> and then
> :angry:
> and then
> 
> and then
> :sad:
> and then
> :anyone:
> and then
> :bi_polo:
> And then ENFP is all
> :violin:
> :rolling:
> :stupid:
> :words:
> 
> :wrecking_ball_viza_
> :skunk:
> enguin:
> :winetime:
> :nevreness:
> That's how we roll. :rolling::rolling:


We'll also effing party whether or not anyone's crying about being left behind by us; you are that irrelevant, lol ^_^ .


----------



## Laguna

inabox said:


> We'll also effing party whether or not anyone's crying about being left behind by us; you are that irrelevant, lol ^_^ .


well okey dokey smokey


----------



## 6007

psychedelicmango said:


> Being ISTP I'm sure @*ripley* has other, _more illegal _stuff to worry about


buttstuff, mariguanas, and boyish attitude


----------



## 6007

Laguna said:


> Okay- is faking a quote as if I wrote it even legal on this forum? I'm thinking it breaks forum rules.


I mean, it does say I fixed it for you, and nothing I do breaks the rules. I am god. I made all of this.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

psychedelicmango said:


> Isnt it interesting to be sx and not have any sort of F in your two first functions. It's a weird combination.


Its a dichotomy of the head and the heart. Ish. 

I kind of think it just makes us more impulsive.

But do SP entps actually exist? Im not sure if thats possible.


----------



## FearAndTrembling

daleks_exterminate said:


> Its a dichotomy of the head and the heart. Ish.
> 
> I kind of think it just makes us more impulsive.
> 
> But do SP entps actually exist? Im not sure if thats possible.


I don't know. But I was wondering the same thing about ENTP 1. Think about what a 1 is about and then think about what an ENTP is about. lol

It is like a Si dom 7.


----------



## inabox

daleks_exterminate said:


> Its a dichotomy of the head and the heart. Ish.
> 
> I kind of think it just makes us more impulsive.
> 
> But do SP entps actually exist? Im not sure if thats possible.


110%; I've known of sp/sx ENTP in personalityforums. If you're looking for a real life example, see comedian Frankie Boyle.


----------



## inabox

FearAndTrembling said:


> I don't know. But I was wondering the same thing about ENTP 1. Think about what a 1 is about and then think about what an ENTP is about. lol
> 
> It is like a Si dom 7.


Hmm, I could totally see 7sp ESTJs, though.


----------



## angelfish

ripley said:


> fucking derp to the point of too dumb to live


I just really appreciate this phrasing
It made me lol and then feel ready to go to sleep
I don't know either but thanks


----------



## star tripper

I NEED TO BE TALKED OUT OF SOMETHING.

I just had a pretty big breakup like two weeks ago. As soon as it happened, I started a job cashiering at a retail store (part time while I finish school), and I immediately had a crush on my assistant manager. We just had incredible chemistry right off the bat. In. Cred. I. Ble. I sort of started treating him as that crush I get just to get by in life with no expectations of pursuit.

Then we got to talking today. I got him to open up about a massive breakup of his and he mentioned that was the first time he'd talked about her in months because it was so painful (they'd dated for 8 years and he thought he was gonna marry her). Then he asked about me, asked my type (which we just so happened to be each other's type) and my romantic past, cautioning that he could be fired for this conversation. Eventually, he got to asking me 1) if I had a curfew and 2) if I liked beer. He then said I was an "intriguing nut to crack." As time went on, he asked me if I wanted to grab a drink after work "to bitch about our exes." I declined because I have to get up early, and he looked a bit dejected, so I assured him I'd grab a drink next time (I don't think he believed me though). I close with him next week, so I was gonna ask him then to show I meant it when I said I really wanted to grab a drink with him.

I need to be talked out of this though. He could get fired if the manager found out and he needs the job. I have to let it go. Besides, he might just be a rebound. I don't know.

But I don't want to. I haven't had this kind of chemistry with someone in so fucking long.

I'm being selfish and I know it.


----------



## cinnabun

My boyfriend is, in honest to god's truth, one of the best people I've ever known. 

He jokes that he's "okay", and says he's a "a bit of a cunt" at times, but honestly...he's just wonderful.

I'm truly grateful to have someone in my life who cares a lot about me. It's rare to find these days, since the world is full of phonies. I'm learning a lot from him, about real life relationships and what's okay and what's not okay, and what's to be expected and what's considered to be expecting too much. 

He's truly a blessing in disguise, and I'm just glad I met him, and glad he's mine, because I really care about him too .

I would consider myself to be a good girlfriend, not a crazy one who's dragged down by her own demons, but I'm getting better. I'm becoming an even better, happier and more secure person. 

Improving yourself is always a good thing. Why be a 10 when you can be a 20? I had a little blip earlier...and I'm honestly not sure where all that negative emotion came from. One thing is for certain, it wasn't from him. I slipped back into old habbits, but I nipped it in the bud, and I'm back to being confident dollie again. It's a learning curve, you know?

While he certainly helps me with my anxiety and self-esteem...I feel guilty in saying I can't give him any credit for it. Don't get me wrong, he's sweet, complimentary, and never makes me feel bad about myself. He doesn't pull shady tactics that leave me second guessing myself...or anything else that's poisinous. He's the complete opposite, he helps to build me up when I'm feeling low. Actually....he even does it when I am happy and don't require any reassurance. 

However...I feel like, you can't let someone be the creator of your own confidence. That's something that's internal, and must come from you and you alone. I mean...one day you may not have that person anymore, and if they were your personal cheerleader for years, then how are you going to know how to stand on your own two feet? How are you going to be able to cope with the big bad world? 

I know this must sound a tad dramatic, but I've just come to accept the fact that this whole issue I have with self-esteem, my mental health, my whole relationship with myself...it's something I'm going to have for the rest of my life. Like, the struggles I mean. Only because of things I've experienced in the past, I was put down almost constantly as a child, it's no wonder I am the way I am. But, instead of being a victim of my circumstance, I've taken the necessary steps to leading a happy and healthy life. 

I can't stand to see people allow their past experiences to eat them up. I understand that terrible things happen, and they can be life changing...but, as someone who has came from abuse, I feel like it's important to let go and move on, you know? Like...why let that effect you for the rest of your life. Granted, you most likely will have moments where it does get to you, and that's fine...but not all the time. Your happiness is your own responsibility, and idk about anyone else but...I'd rather not be misrable about what's been done to me in the past.

Lolololol this has transformed into a cheesy ramble but...meh, fuck it xD. #JustDollieThoughts


----------



## karmachameleon

I'm sexually frustrated. I have 3 people on my want-to-fuck list and I dont think it'll be possible. They're all with shy people, and I'm also shy as fuck. Yesterday I met two of them and I just can't break that fucking barrier for some reason.


----------



## 6007

i am an istp and an empath. 

no wonder i confused myself for an infj


----------



## 6007

omg and no fucking wonder bad energy demolishes me so hard. inferior Fe and empathy? omg that is hysterical! 

I love it, so absurd.


----------



## angelfish

star tripper said:


> I NEED TO BE TALKED OUT OF SOMETHING.
> 
> I just had a pretty big breakup like two weeks ago. As soon as it happened, I started a job cashiering at a retail store (part time while I finish school), and I immediately had a crush on my assistant manager. We just had incredible chemistry right off the bat. In. Cred. I. Ble. I sort of started treating him as that crush I get just to get by in life with no expectations of pursuit.
> 
> Then we got to talking today. I got him to open up about a massive breakup of his and he mentioned that was the first time he'd talked about her in months because it was so painful (they'd dated for 8 years and he thought he was gonna marry her). Then he asked about me, asked my type (which we just so happened to be each other's type) and my romantic past, cautioning that he could be fired for this conversation. Eventually, he got to asking me 1) if I had a curfew and 2) if I liked beer. He then said I was an "intriguing nut to crack." As time went on, he asked me if I wanted to grab a drink after work "to bitch about our exes." I declined because I have to get up early, and he looked a bit dejected, so I assured him I'd grab a drink next time (I don't think he believed me though). I close with him next week, so I was gonna ask him then to show I meant it when I said I really wanted to grab a drink with him.
> 
> I need to be talked out of this though. He could get fired if the manager found out and he needs the job. I have to let it go. Besides, he might just be a rebound. I don't know.
> 
> But I don't want to. I haven't had this kind of chemistry with someone in so fucking long.
> 
> I'm being selfish and I know it.


Depending on what y'all want it might not be that big of a deal. Not that I want to encourage you down a bad path... but I met my fiance at work when he was a manager (not directly over me except for one odd day, but still)... and I think it's really common for relationships to arise at retail workplaces. I can think of three manager + subordinate pairs that have resulted in successful longterm relationships... I could go into the reasons why I think work is a great place to meet someone but I think you've already got enough "pros" on your list. Anyway, if you guys start to be serious about it you can always ask for a transfer to another department, or just find a similar job/workplace. Just keep it far away from work, keep out of public obviousness (might want to choose a little dive for drinks, or one of your houses) and don't breathe a word of feelings/sexuality around _anyone_ - as it stands, you haven't actually done anything against the rules yet, but rumors are the real enemy. Given the risk involved, it is likely to either quickly fizzle or be really fantastic. Sorry! :angel:



ripley said:


> omg and no fucking wonder bad energy demolishes me so hard. inferior Fe and empathy? omg that is hysterical!


Yeah I think my ISTP little brother - sx/sp - gets that too. He has this assholey exterior shell that he puts up sometimes to protect himself but he gets the deep feels really bad.


----------



## Neokortex

Okay, so I'm gonna put this into 1 message so as to include hubby too D

* *






daleks_exterminate said:


> I'm really high functioning, im not rain man or temple grandin. XD. Autism actually went undiagnosed most of my life, and i was just thought of as an "extremely quirky" girl. I think this was in part to obviously being intellegent (i graduated second in my class without ever actaully trying/ often finished my homework while in school still because it was just easy af, despite going to a private college prep school. I graduated a semester early and thats after they tried slowing me down. This is all with super bad adhd and being restless....
> I gave up a full ride to go to another school for a useless major that seemed more interesting. university was really the first time i ever had to study, but three friends (an intj, an istj and an infp) would regularly be pissed because they would spend time an energy on their work, while id half ass mine right before it was due and make much better grades.
> 
> ..Ive always been able to manage having friends, although im shit at reading facial expressions or basic tact.....





Who told you you were autistic? This all sounds just way too far from its conventional... okay, it appears there's a spectrum of autism... I need more info about where you stand, expand on that last bit about tact and facial expression.

And looking back, there're also a few things I neglected, so I'd also ask for some more clarifications on the quoted parts:

* *






> Hes probably the most "safe" person ive ever choosen to be with. Its easy, but in a nice way. [*What'd'ya mean?*] I need to learn and grow personally and collevtively to stay in a relationship, but this is absolutely one both can happen in [*if you said you can connect with him easily, then how does he get you to learn and grow? What needs you need to meet, what challenges he puts you through?*]. In the past, ive actually idealized fighting more than is realistic - as in two people who dont fit fighting for each other because of their passion. [*Could make this easily understandable?*] Sometimes, i think being an NT SX first is like my head and heart fighting. Its one of the first times that i didnt really push for anything, and happened to fall in love with my actual best friend unintentionally after he fell for me [*low Fi, later u wrote, prevents becoming aware of your feelings, most of the time - how does this correlate with being an Sx, perhaps on the head center?*]. Maybe forever is idealistic. I doubt we will always wake up and want to be together, but sometimes love is a choice and since were now married and im moving half way around the world, i hope we make it work.  [*Ooooh, so you're now moving in with him. How much time have you spent with him IRL? I mean being physically present.*]






* *






> The reason i didnt strongly present a "side of the story for him" is really because i wouldnt presume to speak for him (or any one else...) how could i? Just because i have an opinion about something doesnt mean they do or really even should have the same opinion or value or whatever. I dont really know what im feeling most of the time, much less how someone else does or should feel. XD. I can pick up on other peoples moods (thanks fe) but my fe is still low and i dont really use fi.
> Of course love is a two way street. XD. Do you actually think i woukd havemarried someone that i was infatuated with and thats where it ended? Or that anyone that wasnt completely stupid would do that? I know you dont know me, so its possible you're reading what ive said and interperated it that way, but iim not really sure why you would have read it that way if so...





Yea, I missed that part of being before moving in. I thought you guys were already together. So this is another of these "marriage after long distance online relations" - stories? If yes, then I'm not sure how much you Skyped, but now comes the real thing xDDD.
So I misunderstood the deal, that's why I expected you to be already able to step in _his_ shoes. They write Sx is about merging/penetrating, so when after you'd been one with him, you'll be able to write more about his side. Until then is the idealistic bit...

* *






> Besides, hes an intp that more told me that told me he was in love with me, and i argued why he wasnt so he considered it and backed off and then realized he absolutely was, then told me we were in a relationship, then told me after 7 weeks he was going to marry me. Its one of the first times that i didnt really push for anything, and happened to fall in love with my actual best friend unintentionally after he fell for me.






* *






Pifanjr said:


> She gives me the opportunity to open up, which I haven't been able to do with anyone else. The space to be myself, while challenging me to step outside of my boundaries. Someone I can talk to about anything without fear of judgment. Someone I can share my life with.
> 
> She also challenges me to grow in the areas I'm currently lacking in, *like accounting for other people while making plans or doing things*, communicating my desires and expressing my thoughts. Things I might have figured out eventually by myself (or maybe not), but with her help I've grown a ton in these areas, with still a lot of room for improvement.





You're not an Sx-dom, right? From the number of things you enlisted, it comes off to me as if she were the head of the relationship. DD I think you guys are cute, though, just need some time for the purple haze to wear off. Oh, yeah, and the first world kiddies-thing, that you or she can afford moving across the world, and the new generation thing that you rely on the internet to start serious connections. I mean there must be out there some more NTs, where you are at, with whom you could open up as easily but you weren't trying the old way - the internet is a tricky place, though, it's like you don't have a body you need to protect, so you allow more openness by default, whereas IRL you'd need a gathering place and a couple of drinks to smoothen out. Is that her E6, the section I bolded? Could you clarify?


----------



## daleks_exterminate

@Neokortex ill respond when i have time. im hella busy right now. I just wanted to correct that we already live together. Im moving to the netherlands (where hes from) from america (where im from/ he is currently) with him in one month.


----------



## Neokortex

Rinnie said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My boyfriend is, in honest to god's truth, one of the best people I've ever known.
> 
> He jokes that he's "okay", and says he's a "a bit of a cunt" at times, but honestly...he's just wonderful.
> 
> I'm truly grateful to have someone in my life who cares a lot about me. It's rare to find these days, since the world is full of phonies. I'm learning a lot from him, about real life relationships and what's okay and what's not okay, and what's to be expected and what's considered to be expecting too much.
> 
> He's truly a blessing in disguise, and I'm just glad I met him, and glad he's mine, because I really care about him too .
> 
> I would consider myself to be a good girlfriend, not a crazy one who's dragged down by her own demons, but I'm getting better. I'm becoming an even better, happier and more secure person.
> 
> Improving yourself is always a good thing. Why be a 10 when you can be a 20? I had a little blip earlier...and I'm honestly not sure where all that negative emotion came from. One thing is for certain, it wasn't from him. I slipped back into old habbits, but I nipped it in the bud, and I'm back to being confident dollie again. It's a learning curve, you know?
> 
> While he certainly helps me with my anxiety and self-esteem...I feel guilty in saying I can't give him any credit for it. Don't get me wrong, he's sweet, complimentary, and never makes me feel bad about myself. He doesn't pull shady tactics that leave me second guessing myself...or anything else that's poisinous. He's the complete opposite, he helps to build me up when I'm feeling low. Actually....he even does it when I am happy and don't require any reassurance.
> 
> However...I feel like, you can't let someone be the creator of your own confidence. That's something that's internal, and must come from you and you alone. I mean...one day you may not have that person anymore, and if they were your personal cheerleader for years, then how are you going to know how to stand on your own two feet? How are you going to be able to cope with the big bad world?
> 
> I know this must sound a tad dramatic, but I've just come to accept the fact that this whole issue I have with self-esteem, my mental health, my whole relationship with myself...it's something I'm going to have for the rest of my life. Like, the struggles I mean. Only because of things I've experienced in the past, I was put down almost constantly as a child, it's no wonder I am the way I am. But, instead of being a victim of my circumstance, I've taken the necessary steps to leading a happy and healthy life.
> 
> I can't stand to see people allow their past experiences to eat them up. I understand that terrible things happen, and they can be life changing...but, as someone who has came from abuse, I feel like it's important to let go and move on, you know? Like...why let that effect you for the rest of your life. Granted, you most likely will have moments where it does get to you, and that's fine...but not all the time. Your happiness is your own responsibility, and idk about anyone else but...I'd rather not be misrable about what's been done to me in the past.
> 
> Lolololol this has transformed into a cheesy ramble but...meh, fuck it xD. #JustDollieThoughts


Talk about cheesy ramble... what's with the girls nowadays? Coming up on the interwebs idealizing the ****** out of their current boyfriends. Or posting some after sex picks of all the marks on private places. Like what the hell? It's like all of you would wither and die away if not for your newly found ultra-awesome sugar daddy, who you need to brag bits about now and then, who saved you from your rut and it's all besides the point that people don't usually write tediously long compliments of something that is working fine in their lives, that is, complaints would get that length instead, and besides the other point that the interwebs (such as life) is mostly, covertly a date finder place with single people looking for partners so why write in length about not being in the game? And about how good it feels not being single while still being dangerously spoiled by your guy and turning all complacent and not really pulling yourself up by your bootstraps or making any strides in developing yourself out of your own effort. Like, *OMFG*, somebody now pay attention to these cries because they're full with contradictory signals, perhaps some of these girls want a different boyfriend and that's how they encode their desire. Perhaps feminism didn't really change anything and we're still in the middle ages where women sat patiently on their arse waiting for the knightly rich people to approach them, for them to be the first to initiate conversation courteusly, flatter them, then later marry them and get all the goods from marriage. Or you just go up on Tumblr and look at these girls not even flexing a muscle at menial jobs, the boring student jobs, they rather, undress in front of their camera and sell it off for their rich sugar daddies. And be able then to pay the rent. Not sure what all that feminism was about.... for God, I hope, if I ever put time and energy to get over my own confidence issues, shyness, infpness, build myself up for a competitive society and try to get to know a girl and possibly become her bf (with all that competition around) (and while she's all shy and needs time to properly reciprocate) it *W*ould *N*ot *B*e *I*n *V*ain*!*


----------



## Doll

What do you do when your self-preservation bar runs out?

I've been doing plays for a year straight. I love being on stage. I love everyone looking at me - I love performing, moving people, and being the center of attention. I love seeing how people react and forcing them to react emotionally because of me. It's such a thrilling experience. It's also ADDICTIVE. 

I work full time. 8-5pm. I then go to rehearsal from 6-10. Go home. Rehearsal is almost always every day, including some weekends. Now and again there will be a day off. Doing one play like this is a lot, but for a whole year? It's finally catching up to me. 

I'm sick all of the time. I barely eat. I'm exhausted. I sleep the whole weekend away (or whenever I have some time off), so that when I wake up, I'm literally getting up to go back to work. It's this cycle that I love, but is also exhausting. Rehearsals aren't exactly the fun time for me - although I DO enjoy them, unless I'm just sitting there waiting for my turn, in which case I get antsy. 

ANYWAY to my point. 

I promised my wife I'd take a break. I am literally useless at home. I'm not a great housekeeper in general... (sx/so...<_<), but I'm like a ghost in the house and it isn't fair. 

My fear is that I'm going to miss it. I'll miss it SO much. I'll fill in the type with writing, or something else, but NOTHING beats the thrill of going on stage and having all eyes on you. Nothing. I just hope I can keep my promise. I just... I don't know how I'll refrain if I see a good show/a good role pop up. It will just be so tempting.


----------



## kaleidoscope

RainIsMyColour said:


> Despite being Fe-aux and having overlaps with SO because of it, I feel like a defining point is that I really don't care about or know what my reputation is. Like, my sis came home from a party and, as always, regaled me with her party sagas, usually including sexual escapades. And, also always, she ended it with concerns whether people would expect her to get together with this person and the usual closing statement 'I hope they don't think I'm a sexual deviant'. My first thought and verbal response was 'who cares? If the person you actually like knows what the truth is, why does it matter what anyone else thinks?'
> 
> Hypocritical of me, a bit, since I myself listen and get anxious about other people's opinions about me a lot, but me saying and truly feeling 'who cares?' and her feeling rebuked because of it, has been a red thread throughout our lives so far. I try to be more careful now that I'm aware it hurts her to hear that....but I suspect she may be SO-dom because of this anxiety about her reputation, about climbing the social ladder, networking and in general being the catalyst for many social activities. These are all things I don't see as important at all, despite both of us caring what others think. It's weird. She's Fi and supposedly shouldn't care so much while I'm Fe and really should - but we're both sorta doing the opposite lol. She always jumps right in the middle of it, taking charge or realising who is. I just. Totally stay out of it unless I have to join, taking charge if I have to but generally just skating along and doing my part.
> 
> I don't know, I find these differences fascinating.


I'm an ENFP and SX/SO, and I somewhat relate to both you and your sister, depending on the context. I notice my family members (both my parents are 6s) are extremely conscious about being socially appropriate and proper, and blending in, not behaving in a way that might offend people or make them judgmental. Personally, I'm not really concerned with that, and I often get frustrated when they bring my attention to these little things, like "who cares?". But it comes down to what I value, and being 'appropriate' is not one of those things, I just don't care enough about that. On the other hand, I _do_ care about my status, standing out, having influence and being heard/respected, usually for the ultimate goal of finding those few individuals I can have that electrifying connection with. I'm aware of social dynamics if it sparks my interest, and I'm often an amused observer. I think there can be an incredible amount of variety in how the social instinct manifests itself, depending on core. 



FearAndTrembling said:


> I'm all or nothing too. I start out at full blast. I have no buildup at all. lol. I can't imagine the idea of progressively transforming into liking somebody from a previous state.
> 
> It is just conditioning. Learning to love. It is similar to a guy who comes out as gay later in marriage. He says he still loves his wife, and always will. I believe him. He was conditioned to love her.
> 
> When you act like lovers do, you love somebody. Because that is what lovers do. So, the gay guy and his wife are set up as lovers. They do what lovers do, and this is what causes them to love each other. How can one do what lovers do for a long time, and not love somebody? It is a self fulfilling prophecy.


True, I think you can slowly become more habituated and develop those feelings out of habit, attachment and familiarity. You begin to associate positive emotions with the person, and experiences bring you closer together. You're also enacting a lover type of relationship script, so it's easy to start to develop emotions accordingly.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

FearAndTrembling said:


> It is just conditioning. Learning to love. It is similar to a guy who comes out as gay later in marriage. He says he still loves his wife, and always will. I believe him. He was conditioned to love her.
> 
> When you act like lovers do, you love somebody. Because that is what lovers do. So, the gay guy and his wife are set up as lovers. They do what lovers do, and this is what causes them to love each other. How can one do what lovers do for a long time, and not love somebody? It is a self fulfilling prophecy.


Reminds me I read this thing about how love is a choice, as in that's how marriages last, and I think it was meant in a positive way but it sounded sad to me, like they're sort of forcing themselves out of a sense of duty rather than actual feelings... but it's true, it's not necessarily so much "forcing" it so much as liking each other out of habit, which is also sad in a way, if it's mainly a matter of habit if you want it to go beyond infatuation. I get so depressed thinking about this stuff, but it is what it is... >_>


----------



## FearAndTrembling

Distortions said:


> Reminds me I read this thing about how love is a choice, as in that's how marriages last, and I think it was meant in a positive way but it sounded sad to me, like they're sort of forcing themselves out of a sense of duty rather than actual feelings... but it's true, it's not necessarily so much "forcing" it so much as liking each other out of habit, which is also sad in a way, if it's mainly a matter of habit if you want it to go beyond infatuation. I get so depressed thinking about this stuff, but it is what it is... >_>


And that is why I agree with the previous poster. It has to be big. It can't just be the normal routine. I am a romantic. 

Also, it is hard to afford living on your own. You often need two incomes. You need a partner. And the thing about single women is they shouldn't be single. It is perceived as something that must be remedied. "Why is she single? What is wrong with her?" 

And men too. I mean my buddy's wife pressured him every year about kids and he finally gave in. It is an inevitability.

But they only get what they deserve. Those who play that game lost the love they sought to gain. 

*they only get what they deserve.
The rich relationed hometown queen marries into what she needs.
A guarantee of company and haven for the elderly."
Remember those who win the game lose the love they sought to gain.*


----------



## d e c a d e n t

FearAndTrembling said:


> And that is why I agree with the previous poster. It has to be big. It can't just be the normal routine. I am a romantic.
> 
> Also, it is hard to afford living on your own. You often need two incomes. You need a partner. *And the thing about single women is they shouldn't be single. It is perceived as something that must be remedied. "Why is she single? What is wrong with her?"
> *
> And men too. I mean my buddy's wife pressured him every year about kids and he finally gave in. It is an inevitability.


Lol, I don't have a problem with that, at least. I mean, even if it's perceived that way, I don't have any shame over being single. A relationship needs to be something I want.

As for the other stuff, normal routine sounds like a turn-off, but don't think I necessarily need it to be "big." It's more that I like the idea of it being something meaningful, but that's hard without embellishing or romanticizing things, and then it's delusional. 

But I know sx is pretty all or nothing, lol. So it would be extra turned off the habitual thing on an instinctual level.


----------



## Nephilibata

kaleidoscope said:


> I'm an ENFP and SX/SO, and I somewhat relate to both you and your sister, depending on the context. I notice my family members (both my parents are 6s) are extremely conscious about being socially appropriate and proper, and blending in, not behaving in a way that might offend people or make them judgmental. Personally, I'm not really concerned with that, and I often get frustrated when they bring my attention to these little things, like "who cares?". But it comes down to what I value, and being 'appropriate' is not one of those things, I just don't care enough about that. On the other hand, I _do_ care about my status, standing out, having influence and being heard/respected, usually for the ultimate goal of finding those few individuals I can have that electrifying connection with. I'm aware of social dynamics if it sparks my interest, and I'm often an amused observer. I think there can be an incredible amount of variety in how the social instinct manifests itself, depending on core.


Interesting! And yeah, definitely, I'm just starting to get into E-gram more and this was like digging up that first piece. Exciting!

I guess what I meant to do, was highlight a difference between SO and Fe as they both sound so similar to me. Being SO-last probably made it easier for me to distinguish it between the two of us. You say you are concerned about status, influence, being respected etc. and she's the same way, to the point she even only looks at a very narrow pool of people to become friends with or potential romantic relationships. I don't even think about it for myself or potential relationships (I spare a brief thought for it but not really all that much, I think it's to do with my birth country being veeeery conscious of social circles). I don't want to be invisible, so being respected would be great, but just as a basic appreciation as a person, not necessarily to influence. On the other hand, I DO care about what's appropriate...to a point. I don't like to act in ways that restrict myself in order to please others/fall in line with what is 'the proper way of living'. I did do that for a long time, being a 'model child', but I'm breaking free of it. Living for others or under the radar because that's what looks 'normal' or like 'success' to them, is not what I want to do.
Some SO things I seem to be drawn to either because of Fe or because I do like positive attention, especially when I'm 'showcasing' my strengths and talents. Or because of both.

....I swear I'm not a narcissist...


----------



## Nephilibata

I get infatuated to fast, it's ridiculous. It's like a sudden switch, smacking into me without warning, and they're just on my mind all the time. And then I panic and try to backpedal and suppress...which almost never works anyway. I've started forcing myself NOT to think or talk about them which helps stave it off...until I'm back in the same viccinity as them, that is. I become a total, starry-eyed puppy OTL, always aware of that potential to start crushing

on a totally different topic, I equal parts like thinking about the future but also not. Discussing careers has been such a sore spot for such a long time, because I can't settle on something that makes money without feeling enthusiastic/passionate for it. I really just want to settle on an interest and maintain it to cultivate enough competence for a job I'll like. Queue me changing degrees a second time after managing to drag myself to uni as a mature age student...


----------



## Parade of Sparrows

RainIsMyColour said:


> not really rant as much as a realisation. Rambling ahead.
> 
> despite being Fe-aux and having overlaps with SO because of it, I feel like a defining point is that I really don't care about or know what my reputation is. Like, my sis came home from a party and, as always, regaled me with her party sagas, usually including sexual escapades. And, also always, she ended it with concerns whether people would expect her to get together with this person and the usual closing statement 'I hope they don't think I'm a sexual deviant'. My first thought and verbal response was 'who cares? If the person you actually like knows what the truth is, why does it matter what anyone else thinks?'
> 
> Hypocritical of me, a bit, since I myself listen and get anxious about other people's opinions about me a lot, but me saying and truly feeling 'who cares?' and her feeling rebuked because of it, has been a red thread throughout our lives so far. I try to be more careful now that I'm aware it hurts her to hear that....but I suspect she may be SO-dom because of this anxiety about her reputation, about climbing the social ladder, networking and in general being the catalyst for many social activities. These are all things I don't see as important at all, despite both of us caring what others think. It's weird. She's Fi and supposedly shouldn't care so much while I'm Fe and really should - but we're both sorta doing the opposite lol. She always jumps right in the middle of it, taking charge or realising who is. I just. Totally stay out of it unless I have to join, taking charge if I have to but generally just skating along and doing my part.
> 
> I don't know, I find these differences fascinating.


If she's anything like me, then what your sister may be doing is checking to see how she comes off to see if your impression aligns with the image she is trying to pull off. I don't care what other people think per se. I care if I'm being perceived the way I want. Depending on people's reaction I will adjust accordingly. Hence, the name "performer"


----------



## Nephilibata

talon235 said:


> If she's anything like me, then what your sister may be doing is checking to see how she comes off to see if your impression aligns with the image she is trying to pull off. I don't care what other people think per se. I care if I'm being perceived the way I want. Depending on people's reaction I will adjust accordingly. Hence, the name "performer"


oh! Hm, that could be it...she doesn't particularly like accomodating to anyone's expectations as far as I can tell and frequently complains about having them placed on her....that's just toward family though, I've no idea if she adjusts in her social circle.


----------



## Parade of Sparrows

RainIsMyColour said:


> oh! Hm, that could be it...she doesn't particularly like accomodating to anyone's expectations as far as I can tell and frequently complains about having them placed on her....that's just toward family though, I've no idea if she adjusts in her social circle.


Right, it would not be to accommodate other people. I adjust my behavior to achieve the image I want to put out there. This images changes all the time and it's important to note that it's depends on how I want myself to be perceived whether it I want to be perceived as a good and loyal friend or an upset and wronged sibling.


----------



## Doll

Sometimes I want to _absorb_ every bit of another person. I want to consume them. I want to devour them and lick their delicious qualities off my fingers. I don't want to become them, no, but I want them to_ fill _me. I want to counter what I lack with a fire that will burn bright, and I want it to burn forever. They will be mine and I will be theirs. It becomes an obsession.

Our affair will be like the sea. We will crash on the rocks, and - of course - I will be the one to send us headfirst toward destruction, but not before I flourish in our dark depths and suffer in ways only lovers can.


----------



## itsbobo

The transformation of helping myself through using _another_ to helping another through using _myself_, it is powered by hope, desire, empathy and compassion. The cycle between the healthy and average romantic in me is a fight between my dominant feelings and my alerted intuition. My identity is me, but what if I can use it to help someone? 

At one point I had the need to bring confirmation about who I was and why I was in this situation to one person. It was a mixture of proclaiming my identity (Fi) but also trying to acknowledge facts (Te). Now I have the need to bring confirmation about being there for one person. It is a mixture of love (Fi) but also trying to place them in my progressive path (Te).


----------



## kaleidoscope

Therapy is going somewhere, I think. Today, my therapist pointed out that I tend to either be "200% intensity and emotions", or detaching and intellectualizing things. I'm either shit at boundaries, or I'm too good at them. No middle ground. It's like I can't integrate opposites, can't process anything besides black or white, ON or OFF. A way to deal with trauma, apparently. To reconcile how someone who is supposed to be your safe space can also hurt you, dehumanize you, betray you. I compartmentalize like a motherfucker, too. I'm so good at just putting my feelings in a little drawer and suffocating them whenever I need to. To put something that causes a dissonance with my idea of someone somewhere else, lock it away and swallow the key, so it's not seen and integrated as part of who they are. 

I don't know what to do with this knowledge. I'm disappointed in myself, maybe? I thought I was better than this. It's frustrating to realize you're not dealing with something as well as you thought you were, while at the same time, not _feeling_ like you're not dealing with it. I'm not a mess. I'm perfectly okay, I'm functional.. I'm a genuinely happy, passionate person pursuing her dreams. Until I start looking in those drawers.


----------



## Faery




----------



## Neokortex

Doll said:


> Sometimes I want to _absorb_ every bit of another person. I want to consume them. I want to devour them and lick their delicious qualities off my fingers. I don't want to become them, no, but I want them to_ fill _me. I want to counter what I lack with a fire that will burn bright, and I want it to burn forever. They will be mine and I will be theirs. It becomes an obsession.
> 
> Our affair will be like the sea. We will crash on the rocks, and - of course - I will be the one to send us headfirst toward destruction, but not before I flourish in our dark depths and suffer in ways only lovers can.


OMG :shocked:

:shocked: :shocked:

Sounds like the cannibal stuff they write about Sx 4. I'm not sure as a 4 that I could give myself over... completely... but a part of me will always fill you... xDDDDD


----------



## Eclipsed

Despite years of claiming to be an "artist" and "visionary", I hardly actually create anything anymore. Even that's a lie, because a more appropriate word for "hardly" would be _never._

I justify the nonexistence of anything creative in the past two years by telling myself that suffering from major depression and intermittently fantasizing about self-murder is not conducive to a creative lifestyle since the only solution to such a predicament is obviously to fuck around on the internet for hours.

Also, my (perfectly rational) response to my life falling down and burning around is to initiate spending five years getting a degree in something that, when presented with the possibility of doing it for the rest of my life, further makes me want to commit self-murder. Furthermore, the way I justify this decision is, well, it's lucrative and _mildly _interesting _sometimes_ and you're not doing anything productive with your time anyway.

I'm not even really capable of whining and speculating about where I went wrong for hours anymore because, well, that's what I spent basically my entire life doing and it never really worked out for me. But maybe it actually did, since things so far seem to be much worse than when I constantly raged and complained. At least I cared about something, even if it was just trying to figure out how to express my misery more beautifully than anyone else could. As much as I enjoy the idea of not giving a single fuck, I don't enjoy my current reality, in which I am_ unable_ to give a fuck.

Over the past month, I've really come to terms with the extent of my emotional retardation and complete inability to be vulnerable, _ever. _Also hilarious is my complete apathy in regards to anything school-related. I am now officially skipping over half my classes regularly. And that would actually be fine if I bothered to catch up on missed work, but nope. I no longer have any sense of self-preservation and expect to end up on academic probation eventually.

On impulse, I bought a big stack of white paper from the school bookstore a few days ago. It sits untouched on my desk, but I had good intentions when I bought it. I wanted to start drawing again- because that's a grand priority to have when you're hanging onto life by the mere skin of your teeth. I'm also having these strange, grand delusions about becoming some sort of webcomic artist or blogger- despite not having a great deal of artistic talent or any ability to put myself out there. The only reason I suddenly aspire to do this is only because I've been reading quite a few webcomics lately and basically see myself as a failure at everything else I've ever done, so naturally, I need to find a new thing to fail at.

I think the problem with me and art is that everything requires some degree of vulnerability, and that's essentially all been beaten out of me by this point. Apathy's snuck up to me and sort of kidnapped everything I ever thought I was, and now I have no idea where the fuck to do with myself. I sense that I'm complicating the issue, and I desperately want to avoid seeing my life as some sort of complex melodrama, because it's not. The bad things in my life were just a string of abusive bullies separated by periods of crushing loneliness and growing contempt for literally everyone around me. Also, mild molestation but clearly I've gotten over that since I just completely detach when someone touches me and that means everything is fine!

The thought of anyone I know finding out that I actually feel things does not make me want to shrivel up and die anymore, because I am incapable of divulging this sort of information to anyone. I'm getting quite tired of randomly crying and not knowing why because even I now do not have access to my own emotions. On top of all of this, reading "Hyperbole and a Half" and knowing that the author of that has disappeared somewhere and knowing that her sense of humour is striking similar to that of a dear friend I lost contact with three years ago makes me miss said friend very much. She was my favourite human and she inspired me. I wonder if she's a train-wreck like me. Probably not.

I do not care about the quality of my posts anymore, except I secretly do. Rambling over~ <3


----------



## Laguna




----------



## kaleidoscope

I'm calling this phase of my life 'remodeling'. I'm starting to get rid of all the ambiguous, confusing shit in my life. All the connections where I don't know where I stand with people who have hurt me, wondering whether they even care, what they want from this connection with me.. I don't need that. Why did I even settle for that in the first place? Because I enjoyed the feeling of having a busy social life? After a while, it just became clutter. I'd rather have people who actually want to be in my life, who care about being my friends, who genuinely give a shit. I've always talked about quality vs quantity in this realm, but this summer especially, I went against that completely. 

I'm also getting better at setting good boundaries when it comes to friendships. For the longest time, I couldn't help but explore that "what if" feeling; I _had_ to keep pushing boundaries and trying to see just how close I could get to their center, how deeply I could burrow myself into their life and leave a burning mark. I still feel the urge to blast through all the walls, but I'm learning to temper that hunger, to slow down and just let things evolve, without necessarily tying it back to my self-worth. That one is a work in progress


----------



## 6007

You spot it, you got it
and what you say reflects who _you_ are. 

the end.


----------



## 6007

It is really weird seeing my habits lately. 
After 14 years with Dead Robot I got this idea of myself, one that wasn't very flattering, and I am finding that it wasn't accurate. 
My ego wants nothing more than to never speak his name nor think of him again, but on some level I want to honor what my brain or heart needs to process, regardless of how I judge it, or where I would "rather" be in my healing.

In 14 years we accumulated a lot of stuff. Clutter. Things. It is frightfully easy to amass things when you are not happy, or when you move into ever larger homes. And the stuff of 10 years ago lingers, unless you are keen one keeping things fresh, so there are a number of reasons why couples amass things.

Dead Robot liked money and fine objects, more than experiences. I preferred experiences. Due to my preference, I encouraged lots of travel, and if we invited enough of his friends, he was on board.

I am now living in a home that is about 1000 square feet smaller than the one I shared with him, perhaps even 1500 sq ft smaller. During our separation, he would sneak into the home when he knew I wasn't there (the house was full of cameras) and take things, until I finally changed the locks. Despite his taking stuff, I ended up taking EVERYTHING left when I moved. As such... I have spent the better part of one year decluttering and ridding my life of his energy.

I have now been here for almost a year and a half. In that time, I have gotten rid of several things, and I keep relentlessly hacking away at this task. During my marriage I was not really the "doer" because he was a micromanager. He would stand super close to me and monitor how I performed tasks which he asked me to do, or take over projects I was starting, occasionally taking tools out of my hands and pushing me aside. It was demoralizing and I felt subterranean rage, yet I loved him sincerely, despite the growing resentment.

On my own I have realized I am just as capable and smart as he was, if not more so, because I am clever AND I can draw upon things I learned from him and learned over the course of my life! I am just as capable as everyone else, in fact, and more than a little effective. I cannot believe *I* clean my house every single day, and often cook, and actually live like a real adult! WILLINGLY!

Everything I do in service to myself and my good is such a pleasure, and I know true happiness, for the first time ever. Antidepressants perhaps healed something in my brain, but my habits have rewired parts of my brain as well, and loving someone nice has healed parts of my heart, and learning more about my shadow and ego as well. It has been a remarkable journey, this life, one for which I am immensely grateful, which I NEVER felt before. So it is truly "all good," but it is also unexpected as hell.

I LOVE decluttering.


----------



## HellCat

October 12 2015 my marriage ended abruptly and without warning. I went two weeks with only a few sentences from the other party. October 28 he asked me to wait for him and have an "online marriage until we could be together" November 18 was the last sentence I received. He showed up here a few weeks later, pretending as if life were normal and I never existed in his universe. Ok, fair enough. Rather than admit to the shame and disgrace of the treachery and hell I bounced around the States staying with family I had previously supported and working for them and helping take care of their kids, doing dishes twice a day and even babysitting a drunken mentally ill woman. Ending up in the west by myself this summer after writing off my mansion in florida to ex husband number 1. 

A year later even though ex2refuses to send me my stuff I am the bubbliest, happiest, most joyful and in kick ass shape. I am very close with a man who howls at the moon with me and roars, swims, fights, does gymnastics, talks to nature and animals, loves birds, feeding them, watching bats, meatlovers pizza with garlic oil, gets down on the floor with dogs and cats with me to have a chat, will climb trees and play and secretly loves Disney. I AM SO FUCKING HAPPY I THANK GOD that my hell happened.. He is a 5/6 estj who looks and acts as 
E NxPish as I do when in play mode. Brilliant businessman, builds own land cuts his own wood. I have to gush because making every attempt to keep it platonic but everyday ..

.every day we discover its as if we were made from the same mold and make each other so hyper, happy, crazy and loving to earth and mankind I just spent nine hours working my ass off with him and seven the day before, hundreds of hours the last two months learning trades and solving puzzles. Next step, mysteries!, electrical work, carpet stretching, cleaning, carpentry and more and every time we spend together is the best fucking date of my life. We laugh every five minutes and pick on each other nonstop and both love a Knights Tale passionately. 

Bastard, I hate you for making me feel when I was determined to ice the world over and live in a cabin in montana where I never saw man again. Magic every moment in person is fucking whimsical .. It is like living in a Tim Burton fantasy with you. 

its no secret whats going on since you drunkenly called me pussywhipped and said you think I must think you are perfect. I set that straight and you laughed at my perfectly honest 3valuation til you fell over

pffft Honey I have not even tried to seduce you. I have been trying to be FRIENDS. If I did try you can bet I would have you caged and collared in six hours. I got your joke about roofers being the best in bed, rather than dispute it I should have said, prove it. 

I love that you have no filter just like me, call me your mirror image and crazy woman to your crazy man and are so playful, pure, wild, batshit crazy, honest and you howl at the moon with me. You are magical and show me how easy it should have always been and never has and I hope I do the same. We could both be navi. I see you. I let you see my dharma side today in its naked dance under the stars glory. We sing so beautifully together. You even fought for me to her disapproval wow I am so lucky so happy..I never thought I could be to this extent it feels like highschool.. 

Kisses for the roses, setting up the house for me as a surprise and every beer we've shared even if you think I open cans like a crazy person. Hugging tonight was insanely hot. 

I love your giant arms and ferocious body and when you growled working I fucking melted into a puddle of desire but I will wait..forever. 

I like that for once a man is not trying to conquer me and be a wolf. But is shy and respectful in every possible way except when I have on red lipstick and you make a blowjob joke.

Seriously, if you want one say so.. 

I promised your mother if we got involved when we met and she said she would hurt me if I hurt you, that you would be the most spoiled, healed, stress free man alive because you deserve the kindness. 

holy shit my heart is on fire for once instead of my succubus lust. 

Congrats man You tamed Atalanta. 

we are an open secret but I cannot wait til the day I get to just sit on your lap. I will so kick your ass wrestling hellboy.. and yes I am pussywhipped and I do think you are perfect..for me. 

big difference between idolizing someone and loving their madness, their darkness, their flaws as passionately as your hundreds of brilliant traits. Including that wit.. Mmmm mmmmmmmmm mm '' that intellect, humility, sweet gentle spirit and RAWWWWWWR my alpha male. 

I love you for fighting for me when she disapproved, after less than three months no less. I know you mentioned me hugging the neighbor lady and mocking me because you were green jello to the max. I know you love my punk music even when you groan about it I see your head bobbing like a burly parrot. <3 

Yours for life if we ever get the courage to touch beyond an awkward hug. 

HellCat.


----------



## Animal

@mimesis @HellCat 

One year married and counting to eternity...


----------



## mimesis

@Animal and @Daeva

You are truly a beautiful couple. Nice collage also!

btw I realized I was a day early, scusi.


----------



## drmiller100

Animal said:


> @*mimesis* @*HellCat*
> 
> One year married and counting to eternity...



Congratulations!!!! i'm very happy for you both!!!!!


----------



## Neokortex

Animal said:


> @mimesis @HellCat
> 
> One year married and counting to eternity...


I'd call this the genre/style of happy gothic. D


----------



## HellCat

Love to me as an Aspie, used to be a moonstone carving crawling with vines of flowers, then it was an abusive critical marriage with a good guyfriend I tried hard to treat like a husband. Always making up for his many defects, because I was the stronger one in anything. 

Now it means going through that desert, my own personal Dantes inferno

I get to mother a 22 yr old whose never known one, I know what love is with selected family, some adopted in,

I know true romance, soul mates and best friends and it means beef jerky, beer, toolbelts, crinkled smiling eyes, the movie a knights Tale, banter and one upping each other, laughing so hard you get your hair in mold on your knees cleaning, playful debating, wrestling and building things with our bare hands. 

Not little moments stolen of happiness which was mostly sobbing, hiding in the bathroom from his cold rage and excusing it all. Thank God I somehow got here. It is our promised land Pigboy had to blow up the dramabomb in florida, I had to get my grandmother back, Anastasia needed to find a stable forever home. He even bought her jellybeans and m and ms when he brought me a very unexpected Valentines gift bag.

I fucking love you. I fucking understand LOVE and the definition beyond the black and white scripture on paper because of you.

and our wedding song will one day be " Rainbow connection" Which we will sing together because we both used to be performers and can play piano and guitar respectively.

Thank God for those hellish years so I could end up here with trustworthy, amazing, good hearted people and him.


----------



## daleks_exterminate

I found a phrase with quotes around it that said "peace is the conflict at the core of who you are". I can't find a source anywhere. It's possible I wrote it.... Maybe even while high. I don't know. Its fitting though.


----------



## Gorgon

This thread has been sleepy lately. I should spam it with my shitty poetry hahaha.

I guess slight trigger warning if applicable.


* *




I've always been a creature of greed. Greedy for love. Greedy for sex. Greedy for total possession. Greedy for extremes. Greedy for the sublime. I can never experience transcendence as I can't get outside of my own experience of the world, but I can simulate it through this weird, base spirituality I've inadvertently constructed over the years. At twelve, my fantasies were rough sex and standard sadomasochistic scenarios. At fourteen, these fantasies molded into more nefarious desires: kidnap, rape, sexual slavery, and life or death situations. At twenty, it was about to what limits my partner and I can take each other. Where playing on each of our insecurities, and igniting each others' rage was foreplay. Exposing each others wounds, creating new wounds, and pouring salt on them was our lovers' currency. There seemed to not be enough pain, blood, and chaos. I've always been drawn to fucked up and compromising situations, more dangerously, people who are willing to go along with my little games. Lately, I've been talking to someone who lives a couple of cities away from me. We divulged our fantasies and our past experiences, and I couldn't help but be insanely drawn to his lack of fetters (of course consent and constant communication were emphasized). Even though our interaction has entirely been online, the raw attraction is palpable. I have to control my urge to escalate things into more dangerous territory. Of course, there's always a concern about deceit and safety, I haven't forgotten about those.

Romantic relationships reveal my contradictions into the fore where my attraction to people with strong, dominating personalities is drawn to almost obsessive levels. It's not born out of a need for protection as I am well equipped to fight my own battles, nor is it born out of a desire to submit. It's more like a mixture of admiration and instinctive dread. There's a propensity for me to live vicariously through my past partners who exhibited these traits. Regardless of whether they were healthy or not, there is a strong pull to want to escalate and continually move the goal posts with these type of people. It's something I need to control as they won't (and weren't) always be receptive to my antics (nor is it very healthy). Part of the attraction is that they posses traits I lack and feel some degree of shame of, though I would not consider myself a helpless and ineffectual person.


.


----------



## Dabbling

Thanatesque said:


> This thread has been sleepy lately. I should spam it with my shitty poetry hahaha.
> 
> I guess slight trigger warning if applicable.
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've always been a creature of greed. Greedy for love. Greedy for sex. Greedy for total possession. Greedy for extremes. Greedy for the sublime. I can never experience transcendence as I can't get outside of my own experience of the world, but I can simulate it through this weird, base spirituality I've inadvertently constructed over the years. At twelve, my fantasies were rough sex and standard sadomasochistic scenarios. At fourteen, these fantasies molded into more nefarious desires: kidnap, rape, sexual slavery, and life or death situations. At twenty, it was about to what limits my partner and I can take each other. Where playing on each of our insecurities, and igniting each others' rage was foreplay. Exposing each others wounds, creating new wounds, and pouring salt on them was our lovers' currency. There seemed to not be enough pain, blood, and chaos. I've always been drawn to fucked up and compromising situations, more dangerously, people who are willing to go along with my little games. Lately, I've been talking to someone who lives a couple of cities away from me. We divulged our fantasies and our past experiences, and I couldn't help but be insanely drawn to his lack of fetters (of course consent and constant communication were emphasized). Even though our interaction has entirely been online, the raw attraction is palpable. I have to control my urge to escalate things into more dangerous territory. Of course, there's always a concern about deceit and safety, I haven't forgotten about those.
> 
> Romantic relationships reveal my contradictions into the fore where my attraction to people with strong, dominating personalities is drawn to almost obsessive levels. It's not born out of a need for protection as I am well equipped to fight my own battles, nor is it born out of a desire to submit. It's more like a mixture of admiration and instinctive dread. There's a propensity for me to live vicariously through my past partners who exhibited these traits. Regardless of whether they were healthy or not, there is a strong pull to want to escalate and continually move the goal posts with these type of people. It's something I need to control as they won't (and weren't) always be receptive to my antics (nor is it very healthy). Part of the attraction is that they posses traits I lack and feel some degree of shame of, though I would not consider myself a helpless and ineffectual person.
> 
> 
> .


This is exactly the process which Girard the French anthropologist describes as mimesis...and it always escalates. Have you come across his work? I got to grips with it by reading Deceit Desire and the Novel, but I have to say that's quite a detailed book...by the end of it I had grasped the scale of his ideas.


----------



## Gorgon

Dabbling said:


> This is exactly the process which Girard the French anthropologist describes as mimesis...and it always escalates. Have you come across his work? I got to grips with it by reading Deceit Desire and the Novel, but I have to say that's quite a detailed book...by the end of it I had grasped the scale of his ideas.



I haven't actually


----------



## Neokortex

Thanatesque said:


> At twenty, it was about to what limits my partner and I can take each other. Where playing on each of our insecurities, and igniting each others' rage was foreplay. Exposing each others wounds, creating new wounds, and pouring salt on them was our lovers' currency. There seemed to not be enough pain, blood, and chaos. I've always been drawn to fucked up and compromising situations, more dangerously, people who are willing to go along with my little games.


This part sounds like that you have the "confrontational intimacy" of the Enneagram 8. Having big fights only to love each other again. Through bloodshed and all. I'm yet to meet E8s that are social and do this in their relationship??


----------



## drmiller100

Neokortex said:


> This part sounds like that you have the "confrontational intimacy" of the Enneagram 8. Having big fights only to love each other again. Through bloodshed and all. I'm yet to meet E8s that are social and do this in their relationship??


i'm an sx 8. i won't do big fights with someone i'm dating.


----------



## Gorgon

drmiller100 said:


> i'm an sx 8. i won't do big fights with someone i'm dating.


He doesn't know what he's talking about. @Neokortex, I found your comment slightly irritating for some reason, maybe because it comes across as flippant and clueless.


----------



## Neokortex

drmiller100 said:


> i'm an sx 8. i won't do big fights with someone i'm dating.


Big as in "relatively big."



Thanatesque said:


> He doesn't know what he's talking about. @Neokortex, I found your comment slightly irritating for some reason, maybe because it comes across as flippant and clueless.


I found your comment slightly irritating maybe because it comes across as flippant and clueless.


----------



## drmiller100

Neokortex said:


> Big as in "relatively big."
> 
> 
> 
> I found your comment slightly irritating maybe because it comes across as flippant and clueless.



troll.


----------



## Neokortex

drmiller100 said:


> troll.


aggressor.


----------



## star tripper

We're trying to keep it casual but he makes it so hard. He doesn't understand the concept of casual, and I wish I could properly enjoy that quality but I'm afraid he'll wake up, realize he's in too deep, and pull away.

He's calling me "wife material," suggesting I partially move in, demonstrating instinctively possessive and protective behavior, making me meet his friends and family, weaving me into his life. I love it and I don't want the escalation to cease, but I also can't tell if he's ready for that sort of thing.

Blah.

He's finally seen a side to me I've been trying to hide... and it somehow turned him on. He's in this fog where literally everything I do is great to him, even antagonizing him. I'm constantly overthinking, wondering if something I've done will send him to the hills, and it's all for nothing because he isn't thinking at all. To me, love is a razor's edge; to him, it's a static force. It makes me like-- no, _need_ him more.


----------



## Animal

These sentiments are very 9ish, if your beautiful and heartfelt confessional post must be addressed through the lens of type.



Thanatesque said:


> Romantic relationships reveal my contradictions into the fore *where my attraction to people with strong, dominating personalities is drawn to almost obsessive levels. *It's not born out of a need for protection as I am well equipped to fight my own battles, nor is it born out of a desire to submit. It's more like a mixture of admiration and instinctive dread. *There's a propensity for me to live vicariously through my past partners* who exhibited these traits. Regardless of whether they were healthy or not, there is a strong pull to want to escalate and continually move the goal posts with these type of people. It's something I need to control as they won't (and weren't) always be receptive to my antics (nor is it very healthy). *Part of the attraction is that they posses traits I lack* and feel some degree of shame of, though I would not consider myself a helpless and ineffectual person.


This is actually very 9ish. Everything I highlighted. Being attracted to people who possess traits you lack is human - but living vicariously through someone else's *aggression* is very 9.. and I have seen a strong draw to aggression in others, specifically in Sp 9s, but really in all 9s. I say Sp because of the idea that you admire someone's "POW" and "ROAR." If that makes sense.


----------



## Gorgon

Animal said:


> These sentiments are very 9ish, if your beautiful and heartfelt confessional post must be addressed through the lens of type.
> 
> 
> This is actually very 9ish. Everything I highlighted. Being attracted to people who possess traits you lack is human - but living vicariously through someone else's *aggression* is very 9.. and I have seen a strong draw to aggression in *others, specifically in Sp 9s, but really in all 9s. I say Sp because of the idea that you admire someone's "POW" and "ROAR."* If that makes sense.


Very interesting  I wonder why sp-firsts would be the drawn to that more so than the other two instincts? Also @Dabbling, I just started _Deceit, Desire, and the Novel_. I'll report back


----------



## Animal

Thanatesque said:


> Very interesting  I wonder why sp-firsts would be the drawn to that more so than the other two instincts? Also @*Dabbling*, I just started _Deceit, Desire, and the Novel_. I'll report back


WAR is Sp. It exists because of territory, money, resources - all Sp things. Being strong in war is imperative for survival. Being healthy and strong is imperative in general for survival, life and thriving; again, all Sp. Since Sp is self-preservation, it's exactly about life & death, thriving and surviving, having enough resources to thrive etc. Resources can be strength, money, energy, food, or a variety of things - not all Sp doms are fixated on food or money (as I'm sure you know)..it can be more abstract - strength, toughness, other survival skills that can be depended on. Not all Sp's actualize this; instinct is about where your eye lands. So for 9s, who struggle with seeing their own value, taking up their own space and actualizing their own aggression, combined with Sp which is a surviving & thriving instinct, there's going to be a lot of attention paid to who is strong, who is bad ass, who can "take it," who is a powerhouse, wanting that kind of influence so you can fulfill that fantasy of yourself as an ultimate powerhouse, and so forth.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Animal said:


> WAR is Sp. It exists because of territory, money, resources - all Sp things. Being strong in war is imperative for survival. Being healthy and strong is imperative in general for survival, life and thriving; again, all Sp. Since Sp is self-preservation, it's exactly about life & death, thriving and surviving, having enough resources to thrive etc. Resources can be strength, money, energy, food, or a variety of things - not all Sp doms are fixated on food or money (as I'm sure you know)..it can be more abstract - strength, toughness, other survival skills that can be depended on. Not all Sp's actualize this; instinct is about where your eye lands. So for 9s, who struggle with seeing their own value, taking up their own space and actualizing their own aggression, *combined with Sp which is a surviving & thriving instinct, there's going to be a lot of attention paid to who is strong, who is bad ass, who can "take it," who is a powerhouse, wanting that kind of influence so you can fulfill that fantasy of yourself as an ultimate powerhouse, and so forth.*


Man, that doesn't sound appealing to me, that way of putting it. Well, it also sounds Se-ish.


----------



## Little_Bird

I hate being attracted to people because it's heaven and hell.

I've always been a sensitive individual when it comes to sex and I have a high libido. Simply said, if there's no intense attraction I'm not open to getting to know anybody better. Much less mess around with them. But when I'm attracted that intensely to someone, I feel the exact same thing. A very strange pull.

I've never heard anyone speaking about such a feeling and never read anything about it, so I decided to post something here. You can describe it as a pleasurable pain. Just imagine if something inside your body was pulling at your muscles, like something not pulsating but pulling. The pulling feels painful. But at the same time, it feels incredibly good. What alleviates it is being around that person and feeling close to them. And well.. *cough*

However, it can be insatiable and incredibly frustrating. If I stop thinking about the other person and force my mind on something else, it will chill out a bit. But that's nearly impossible in the first stages of a relationship because I'm almost constantly thinking of them. The closer I am to the object of my attraction, the stronger it gets.

It often starts in my arms or thighs and then travels to cover most of the muscle groups in my body. Most of the time, it stays in one spot. I'm just curious as to what is happening and how. Is there a logical explanation? Is it a SX thing? 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


----------



## drmiller100

Little_Bird said:


> I Is it a SX thing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk



Yes. NRE. That fabulous, oh so fucking horriblly wonderful drive to be with the person, that body ache when you can't be around them, and it has been 3 days. 
Is it worth it? Oh hell yes!!!


----------



## Little_Bird

drmiller100 said:


> Yes. NRE. That fabulous, oh so fucking horriblly wonderful drive to be with the person, that body ache when you can't be around them, and it has been 3 days.
> Is it worth it? Oh hell yes!!!


Haha! I'm glad I'm not alone! It's definitely "fucking horrible" and "wonderful" at the same time. Just thinking about the person that makes me feel that way makes it come back.

It's 100% worth it later!!! Just suffering in between haha

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


----------



## Little_Bird

Anyone else identify with these songs when you're on a rampage? As a 7w8 sx sometimes my common sense/rationality/values take a backseat when I'm in pain or stressed...


----------



## Gorgon

The poem pictured is called “Pursuit” by Sylvia Plath. I can see myself as both the victim and the panther, but in the end it’s the panther I most identify with.

Force me to play by your rules, and I’ll do so. Just don’t be surprised if I play dirty. If put me through the ringer, I won’t complain. Just don’t expect to not push your boundaries. Trap me into a cat and mouse game, and I’ll chase you to the ends of the universe. You give me a mile to take while I know deep down you want me to take an acre, and I’ll take the whole city and then some. Weave me into your web, and I’ll burn it down and pin you into my trap. I’m a patient person, so I don’t mind waiting and calculating, but I will wear your defenses down and strip you bare. You can’t run from me, you can’t hide from me, you can’t keep anything away from me, but I would love for you to try. You see I can play this game for eternity and never get tired of it. It challenges me, it forces me to be better. Try to make me submit, try to force me to grovel on my knees, and we’ll see who comes up on top.

Yeah I definitely do identify with the aggressor romance style in socionics.


----------



## star tripper

"The grinding hypnotic power of this ruined place and these people would never leave me. I visit it in my dreams today, returning over and over, wanting to go back. It was a place where I felt an ultimate security, full license and a horrible unforgettable boundary-less love. It ruined me and it made me. Ruined, in that for the rest of my life I would struggle to create boundaries for myself that would allow me a life of some normalcy in my relationships. It made me in the sense that it would set me off on a lifelong pursuit of a 'singular' place of my own, giving me a raw hunger that drove me, hell-bent, in my music. It was a desperate, lifelong effort to rebuild, on embers of memory and longing, my temple of safety."

-- Bruce Springsteen

I motion we make this an official sx 6 description because holy shit.


----------



## Asd456

star tripper said:


> I motion we make this an official sx 6 description because holy shit.


I'm a Sexual 6 and I don't relate at all. I'm also Sx/Sp. Do you know his stacking?


----------



## star tripper

Asd456 said:


> I'm a Sexual 6 and I don't relate at all. I'm also Sx/Sp. Do you know his stacking?


sx/so fosho

edit: I actually relate a lot to it and I'm not a 6 (Bruce is 6w5 sx/so, I'm 5w6 sx/so), so that instinct might matter.


----------



## Chesire Tower

There is nothing better than being an SX first, when things are going well, and conversely; absolutely nothing worse, when they're not.


----------



## Vermillion

star tripper said:


> "The grinding hypnotic power of this ruined place and these people would never leave me. I visit it in my dreams today, returning over and over, wanting to go back. It was a place where I felt an ultimate security, full license and a horrible unforgettable boundary-less love. It ruined me and it made me. Ruined, in that for the rest of my life I would struggle to create boundaries for myself that would allow me a life of some normalcy in my relationships. It made me in the sense that it would set me off on a lifelong pursuit of a 'singular' place of my own, giving me a raw hunger that drove me, hell-bent, in my music. It was a desperate, lifelong effort to rebuild, on embers of memory and longing, my temple of safety."
> 
> -- Bruce Springsteen
> 
> I motion we make this an official sx 6 description because holy shit.


sx 6 here. 100% agree


----------



## Rose for a Heart

Honestly, fuck being like this. I don't want this. I have gone through hell and gained nothing from it. I just want to feel safe and happy.


----------



## Rose for a Heart

Thought maybe I will try my best to write it all out, no holds barred. 

I could never even face my issues around this, let alone speak about it. But I desperately need something transformational to happen at this point. I can't keep going like this. 

It hurts when people tell me "oh don't do this, it's not attractive." Which scares me so much that unattractive thing comes spilling out of me anyway. There's humanity inside me that won't sit still...all this "ugliness," the shadow whatever you want to call it. I have felt how powerful and desperate it is to come out of me. I have felt it two years ago when I was terrified and chained to my bed, and I had never experienced anything more scary in my life. It was complete terror, and nothing stopping it swallowing me whole. In that I felt the shadow grip me, begging to be expressed in me, _to be seen for who I am completely, and still be loved_. I swallowed it back down, I could not let it come out like that. 

I don't know if I truly think that I am special when it comes to this, but I see them all like girls for things they hated in me. If it's in them, it's very attractive, but if it's in me, it's not. _I cannot help it that all this triggers me_. So when it ruins what we have, and he starts backing away, it only makes it worse. I am sorry I am in pain and it makes you not want to be close to me. I cannot help it. And I cannot disown my pain. Cannot pretend I am not feeling it. 

I really want to believe I am not worthless, but, given how everyone has reacted to me at this point in my life - how could I deny reality? I thought, rather naively, that if I could just process this stuff, just deal with it somehow and come out of it, then I will be ok even though I will never get what I wanted. But then I would still be ok with that and life doesn't have to be a torment. But I was naive to think that the very thing that has driven me deeper and deeper into trauma, _made my wound so much worse_ - that I could seriously process all this crap from the 2 decades of my life. 

Yes, I am hurting, but I don't want to. I have been so desperate to get better I force it upon myself to the point it can traumatize or overwhelm me. 

I can't believe in love, when I know that the "ugliness" - my humanity, my scars, my pain, my fears, my most vulnerable spots - are what make me unlovable and undesirable. I don't consider it ugly really, I can't. It's too genuine and human for me to hate it so much. But I do know it makes me damaged. And mental illness...well, it was never supposed to be painless and nice. It's awful and tormenting.


----------



## Viole

I just wanted to join in on the fun. SX/SP, introverted with a SO blindspot. It seems like a very cruel way to spend life. My tri type seems to be 7/2/9, and I'm undecisive if 7 or 2 is my primary. 

Life can seriously be hell. My activator is men/relationships, but it's so rare for me to be attracted to anyone, especially ones that are local and available. Life seems to glow when there's someone to be interested in, and I spend far far to much time with them on my mind. 

By contrast, if there isn't someone around to activate my SX passion for life, everything is dull, drab, I feel like I have nothing going for me in my life and I struggle to see what the point of my life is. It's the weirdest/cruelest thing to so desperately want connection with poeple, but then be an introverted SO last, so that it's so hard to make initial connections. Only now have I started to understand that the reason why so many things failed in the past was that I'd jump in right away wanting to make instant strong connections, and this is far too intense for most people, that I need to back off, and build it up over possibly months of contact. Gawd that was a hard lesson to learn. If it hadn't been for learning about instincts, I'd still be lost in the fog. I think the enneagram/instincts may be the most valuable things I've learned about this decade. 

Currently I've been absolutely obsessed with someone since August. IT's odd.. there are both signs of interest and of resistance from him, but he's a SO/SP 7 as far as I can tell. Either way.. I've cried so many times over him having accepted that he's not interested, only to see him again and then have some stupid thing make me wonder/get excited. Tonight I was thinking that I wanted him more in my life so badly I was nearly in tears and it just hurt, the thought that after all he won't be interested. I just don't know how I would cope. I"m nearly 40, and I havn't had what I would consider a good, loving, supportive close relationship, ever. As an SX.. just kill me! 

I"m trying to figure out if it's possible to transfer my "activating" quality from potential love interests to accomplishments, such as playing an instrument. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, "directing" or programming what activates you? Mostly I find that listening to some music sometimes, fun movies, and of course the men are what do it for me. I need to transfer it into something active and productive, and not so passive. Thanks all! Now to go search and see if there is an entire thread area dedicated to just instincts, I feel I learn more from it than I do the number type.


----------



## ButIHaveNoFear

I throw myself into a relationship before it's safe _every_ time, even though I shouldn't do it. Me being there, my presence, should make it safe. But then I've made it dangerous for myself because I can't get away if I have to, and neither can he. In fact, it's the beginning of the end. I'm blind to everyone else except that person, and I get swallowed up. I don't realize the person doesn't feel the same for me until much later. Then I need to leave, and I leave a wake of damaged hearts in my path. 

I wish I could hold myself back from certain aspects of the relationship and wait until I know it's right to jump in, but I lose all self control. I throw myself in, and I love it so much, and I can't help my intensity. I think men must underestimate my ability to captivate them, thinking I'm a shy and delicate person. ——I run over them like a steamroller, over their bodies and exposed hearts. They've never known anything like me, and they weren't prepared. Maybe they think they'll be more dominant compared to me, and I probably think they will be too, but I soon have the upper hand. I ruin things for them and myself, repelling the connection I desire most. 

I may have an SX instinct/tendency/variant/personality, but if I want to have a successful intimate relationship, I don't think I can act like it. I must have self control, though it is unnatural for me in this regard. It won't go well for me any other way. Maybe the one for me is someone who can resist me for a time. It would hurt, but maybe that's what it takes. I don't know.


----------



## drmiller100

Rose for a Heart said:


> It hurts when people tell me "oh don't do this, it's not attractive." .



I don't give a shit about "people". I care about a VERY few, select persons. And for them, my uniqueness, my intensity, my strength is what they like. 
Keep being you so the right people can find you.


----------



## Rose for a Heart

drmiller100 said:


> I don't give a shit about "people". I care about a VERY few, select persons. And for them, my uniqueness, my intensity, my strength is what they like.
> Keep being you so the right people can find you.


Those opinions only matter because they are right. I am very sensitive to rejection, and I get triggered over the smallest things. For example, it was clear my last INTJ interest was obsessed with another girl, and he disrespected me, at least that's what it felt like, by bringing her up constantly. I could sense how much he was into her, his obsession and feelings for her, and it triggered me badly. He liked me, sure, but he liked her more. I have been traumatized repeatedly when it comes to this, so the moment I realized he was repeatedly rejecting me, I started getting nightmares, daily. Would wake up with pounding heartbeat, and have bad anxiety and would cry the whole day. This is how I have been my whole life. Basically...traumatized and unable to heal. 

I just want that all to be over. At this point, all I want is peace and no more emotional pain and torment. Even if it means I will never find anyone who really wants me - all of me - even then if I could have peace and no pain in my life I would be very grateful. I can't do this for very long.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Evil and disturbed people will find a way to use your SX against you and manipulate you with it; so be very careful whom you get close to.


----------



## Animal

Chesire Tower said:


> Evil and disturbed people will find a way to use your SX against you and manipulate you with it; so be very careful whom you get close to.


Sorry people are being horrible to you. :sad:
These people just never quit. They are everywhere.


----------



## Chesire Tower

Animal said:


> Sorry people are being horrible to you. :sad:
> These people just never quit. They are everywhere.


Thanks. <3

Let's just say that some people who offered up their friendship to me are now using my attachment to them as a weapon but I've distanced myself but yeah; it doesn't stop it from feeling really shitty to be treated that way.

:heart:


----------



## Dare

Viole said:


> I"m trying to figure out if it's possible to transfer my "activating" quality from potential love interests to accomplishments, such as playing an instrument. Does anyone have any thoughts on this, "directing" or programming what activates you? Mostly I find that listening to some music sometimes, fun movies, and of course the men are what do it for me. I need to transfer it into something active and productive, and not so passive.


I can use SX energy in all kinds of ways and I can reenergize by simply being SX -- by being intense, by thinking SX things, by focusing on that aspect inside me and bringing it to the fore. It's always there in me but it's like a switch that I can turn on to really go into full SX mode. The more 'alive' I feel, the higher my energy is and the easier everything is. That said, it is easier for me to do activities that have an 'edge' -- something with risk, something unknown that I get to toy with, something intensely difficult or something that is ultimately in service of my SX.


----------



## ukulele

Dare said:


> I can use SX energy in all kinds of ways and I can reenergize by simply being SX -- by being intense, by thinking SX things, by focusing on that aspect inside me and bringing it to the fore. It's always there in me but it's like a switch that I can turn on to really go into full SX mode. The more 'alive' I feel, the higher my energy is and the easier everything is. That said, it is easier for me to do activities that have an 'edge' -- something with risk, something unknown that I get to toy with, something intensely difficult or something that is ultimately in service of my SX.


I call it a "spark". I just need to see a "spark" and the full psycho mode is activated, "ahoy adventure" and all of that. 
Like a day and night sometimes. 
@Viole
I see how it is easy to be done when there's an object of affection, you want to do things "for them" so energy is easy to be found, they're your spark but what works for me (4w5) I need something that feels "me", the closer I am to things that "suit" me the more sparks I get, the more energy I get. Also intensity, the more intense the better, in the experience and in the action. I often lose interest when it's not intense enough (for example there's an obstacle and I can't solve it, I can only wait). 
Oh, and action. I'll be less interested if it doesn't seem real. The closer I am to taking actions (or maybe seeing it as something possible/ that will pay off) the more energised I am.
And of course, it must be an empire, nothing small. 

(totally not stalking you, lioness, not at all)


----------



## Dare

ukulele said:


> ... "ahoy adventure" and all of that.


Lol, that's so how it is.



> And of course, it must be an empire, nothing small.


Exactly.



> (totally not stalking you, lioness, not at all)


:heart:


----------



## johnnyyukon

Dare said:


> I can use SX energy in all kinds of ways and I can reenergize by simply being SX -- by being intense, by thinking SX things, by focusing on that aspect inside me and bringing it to the fore. It's always there in me but it's like a switch that I can turn on to really go into full SX mode. The more 'alive' I feel, the higher my energy is and the easier everything is. That said, it is easier for me to do activities that have an 'edge' -- something with risk, something unknown that I get to toy with, something intensely difficult or something that is ultimately in service of my SX.


You act like it's truly a switch, and maybe it is for you. I completely relate to what you're saying, but it's not as easy for me to turn it on. Can you give me a specific example?

I suppose I do do it, I recently went out and impulsively bought a punching bag and stand. Well okay, my old punchingbag had been left in the rain and I had to take all the molded stuffing out, which sucked but was kinda cool too cuz I ended up having to go full out with the respirator and burn all that shit. Haha, back on target…

But yeah I used to do some boxing/MMA but since I stopped it's like I have to hit something, probably why I was pretty into throwing knives before I got the big bag set up.


Now it's high-powered rifles and Western-style pistols like the Colt Peacemaker and some gun spinning, lol. oh god.


The grips are shit, so they're sending me some "Bonded Ivory" ones like Doc Holiday used haha











But yes, do tell your secret. Like I have stuff I should be doing but could probably make it to the gun range if I left soon, but we'll see if I can find my inner switch.

Appropriate username, btw.


----------



## Skeletalz

Not *this* guy is Sx:






This guy is a real artist... Im just grinning like a madman watching him carve that stuff


----------



## goldthysanura

It's weird being a 9 sx (at least that's what I think I am), it's like I'm either engaged or disengaged in things, and there's not much in between. I either feel aloof to people or I want to understand them completely. But I feel ashamed of wanting to connect so badly with people. Like it's improper to want that so much. When I connect with people and I feel that electricity it feels good but almost too good, like we're having sex even if we're just talking. I'm trying to get more comfortable with the feeling of connection...it goes against my passive nature, and against my upbringing, but I know I want to feel alive, and I can only do that by truly connecting. So lately when I talk to people I think to myself: "I'm trying to connect, to really hear them and be honest." and saying what's on my mind rather than just saying what I think people want to hear. of course sometimes the thought of saying what's on my mind is scary because I want things to be peaceful so badly...but I have a choice between predictable peace and aliveness/excitement/mutuality, and I want to choose the latter more often. it'll make my life more memorable.


----------



## Viole

ukulele said:


> I call it a "spark". I just need to see a "spark" and the full psycho mode is activated, "ahoy adventure" and all of that.
> Like a day and night sometimes.
> @Viole
> I see how it is easy to be done when there's an object of affection, you want to do things "for them" so energy is easy to be found, they're your spark but what works for me (4w5) I need something that feels "me", the closer I am to things that "suit" me the more sparks I get, the more energy I get. Also intensity, the more intense the better, in the experience and in the action. I often lose interest when it's not intense enough (for example there's an obstacle and I can't solve it, I can only wait).
> Oh, and action. I'll be less interested if it doesn't seem real. The closer I am to taking actions (or maybe seeing it as something possible/ that will pay off) the more energised I am.
> And of course, it must be an empire, nothing small.
> 
> (totally not stalking you, lioness, not at all)


Ukelele, this is great, thanks, but I'd really love some more concrete examples? Thinking of the last few months, what are some of the things you really enjoyed, really activated you?


----------



## Dare

johnnyyukon said:


> You act like it's truly a switch, and maybe it is for you. I completely relate to what you're saying, but it's not as easy for me to turn it on. Can you give me a specific example?


It's a choice for me. I just decide I want to go to full SX mode and suddenly I feel alive, enthusiastic/excited, elated. It seems like I'm more in my body/part of the sensory world and less 'in my head'. I start thinking in more SX/intense ways. It feels like a sudden shift in energy from flowing inward (I'm often introspective/withdrawn as an e5 introvert) to outward as my focus does the same -- I suddenly want to do stuff and I have the energy and positive 'yes' mind set for it. 

I don't want to make it seem bigger/more enthusiastic than what it is though. If I need to do something dull I still recognize it's dull but I've connected it in my mind to what I want ('this needs to happen for more exciting X to occur' ---> bring forth that excitement). It isn't just a positive mental spin on doing the dull thing though -- it's me enjoying my natural high from 'being' SX/feeling good while I energetically 'defeat' said dull task. In other words, I made the task & myself more intense.


----------



## drmiller100

Dare said:


> It's a choice for me.
> e -- I suddenly want to do stuff and I have the energy and positive 'yes' mind set for it.
> 
> I
> I've connected it in my mind to what I want ('this needs to happe
> while I energetically 'defeat' said dull task. In other words, I made the task & myself more intense.


Smiles. Respectfully, your profile says you identify as a 5. The theory I ascribe to is that a healhty 5, in a really good place, grows towards 8, and starts doing and being 8 like. The things I quoted all have 8ish hints for me.

Smiles.....

I can turn my energy up or down. I can turn the intensity, the fire, the heat down to be a bit more unobtrusive, or I can light up to look BIG. With practice, I can do it consciously, but mostly it is unconscious but noticable when I try.


----------



## ukulele

Viole said:


> Ukelele, this is great, thanks, but I'd really love some more concrete examples? Thinking of the last few months, what are some of the things you really enjoyed, really activated you?


I think it will strongly depend on an individual. Introspection and recognising patterns might help. 

When it comes to me (INTJ, 4w5, sx/sp) I often ignored or killed those sparks due to upbringing (OCD, afraid of everything, controlling ISFJ, sp mother), so I had to "re-learn" to recognise the smallest sparks- if it does make any sense to you.
For me, it's always something that is aesthetically pleasing, creative, artistic, unique (enneagram 4, I assume) I've always been drawn to it but pleasure of it is not enough, I need to turn it into a business/business idea(or hands on experience) , a masterplan (INTJ), and make it an empire (sx). Combine all of those and insanity begins. So I'm actually trying to do it now.

The "everyday" stuff, as @Dare said, the best if there's an "edge" to it. I like travelling for example, sometimes I struggle with motivation to go and pack my backpack but if there's an adventure? a challenge? I'm in. Sadly, it's not always like this so I'll try to find something I can be excited about (finding a particular dish or... I don't know, spending a night at Gellert hill) I explore cities by getting "lost". I also always stay at hostels even though I'm not too sociable introvert(a challenge, a chance for an adventure?). 

Another thing, I can easily engage in "projects" of other people. Not necessarily a love interest. I assume it's (subconsciously) in order to bond, develop connection? So yeah, ask me for a favour and I'll develop sparks, ask me to help you with business and there's a fire.


----------



## johnnyyukon

Dare said:


> It's a choice for me. I just decide I want to go to full SX mode and suddenly I feel alive, enthusiastic/excited, elated. It seems like I'm more in my body/part of the sensory world and less 'in my head'. I start thinking in more SX/intense ways. It feels like a sudden shift in energy from flowing inward (I'm often introspective/withdrawn as an e5 introvert) to outward as my focus does the same -- I suddenly want to do stuff and I have the energy and positive 'yes' mind set for it.
> 
> I don't want to make it seem bigger/more enthusiastic than what it is though. If I need to do something dull I still recognize it's dull but I've connected it in my mind to what I want ('this needs to happen for more exciting X to occur' ---> bring forth that excitement). It isn't just a positive mental spin on doing the dull thing though -- it's me enjoying my natural high from 'being' SX/feeling good while I energetically 'defeat' said dull task. In other words, I made the task & myself more intense.


Oh yeah, ur INTJ, productivity machines. Even if you're producing crazy SX shit.


----------



## Temizzle

What's your experience dating non sx-doms? 

I find the intensity and drive for deeper connection is lacking, and the interaction feels unfulfilling at a fundamental level. The primary orientation is towards something else like playing it safe and trodding along in life with self restraint (SP) or an over-focus on social status and what he / she said to whom and when (SO).


----------



## drmiller100

Temizzle said:


> What's your experience dating non sx-doms?
> 
> I read somewhere Sp's act like Sx when they are looking for a mate. My ex wife was SP, who was WILD and CRAZY until shortly after the wedding. THen she turned into a really crappy accountant.
> 
> I burn out So's. Sp's at my age have no interest in me.


----------



## Temizzle

drmiller100 said:


> Temizzle said:
> 
> 
> 
> What's your experience dating non sx-doms?
> 
> I read somewhere Sp's act like Sx when they are looking for a mate. My ex wife was SP, who was WILD and CRAZY until shortly after the wedding. THen she turned into a really crappy accountant.
> 
> I burn out So's. Sp's at my age have no interest in me.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes burning out SOs. They seem to compartmentalize their relationships, there’s a time for this, a time for
> That, place for this place for that. Everything in small doses. Me? I want everything right now no stops.
> 
> SP and SO both dull lame undatisfying in my experience.
Click to expand...


----------



## BranchMonkey

Temizzle said:


> What's your experience dating non sx-doms?
> 
> I find the intensity and drive for deeper connection is lacking, and the interaction feels unfulfilling at a fundamental level. The primary orientation is towards something else like playing it safe and trodding along in life with self restraint (SP) or an over-focus on social status and what he / she said to whom and when (SO).


The experience I'll share was with an SO, a non-sx dom except actually during sex or participating in sports; those were the only times he allowed himself to let go. He was, or still is (I haven't been in touch with him in over 30 years), an ISTP.

I was his obsession, and it didn't have anything to do with MBTI but rather early childhood neglect and abuse; sad, pathological.

My experience otherwise, with him, outside of sex? I would push him to share, and he'd be like a flat-liner until suddenly, out of seemingly nowhere, no indicator it was coming, he'd walk over, for instance, to a patio door and punch out a few of the panes in rapid, controlled fashion. 

We were a horrid match.

After that relationship ran its course I met my husband. He thought I was too intense, and he wasn't sure we could be together in a romantic/sexual way, but we're still together--coming up in April it'll be 30 years.

The trade-off for us both is he has to deal with my temper--I do not lose it often but boy howdy when I do, I scare myself. And I have to put up with his being too emotional and expressive--to me, even melodramatic. I mean he makes faces when he ties his shoes. 

The other night he came out of the bedroom and said, eyes huge and voice full of emotion, "They're attacking me!"

He meant Beezus and Zanona, our twin girl rats. Pickles was with me on the recliner in the living room.

That was funny because he was acting out what they had been doing to him and he was in a good mood, and so was I. At times like that, his voice, his mobile face, the word choice and hand gestures--the whole routine--makes it work. 

But when it's, say, late at night, and I'm all in, and he gets revved up; or I'm beat and he comes home from work amped up over something Trump did--especially if I can't indicate fast enough, "I don't want to hear this," and he uses his mobile face, emotional voice, hand gestures, word for word what the man said including mimicking his tone, then eh, you know, that's my idea of "too intense."


----------



## mrhcmll

I feel like I often spearhead conversations and relationships as an Sx-dom and people just enjoy the intimacy ride. I've been incredibly close with my best friend before, but lately I've been feeling like the back-and-forth energy that I love is gone or at least dimmed.

I can't help but wonder if he's not "pushing back" or as involved in the friendship as I am.

It sounds horrible, like I'm the only reason I get close to people. Like they just.. "receive" me and try to match me, but it's not really the same level of presence for both parties.

That, or have I grown tired of him? Is it going to be like this with every relationship I have? Hot and then cooler and cooler as soon as I meet other people I want to have a one-on-one talk/relationship with?

I don't know if I'm overthinking this or if this has value. Does anyone else relate?


----------



## visceral

after readhing through a bit of this (and relating) i think ive finally figured out that i'm sx
i thrive on intensity. and when that intensity/bubbling/bulb goes out i literally throw my life out


----------



## luna fleur

How do I stop feeling dread every time I feel like a relationship starts to be more about paying the bills, family problems, career woes and not about being passionate to each other?


----------



## drmiller100

luna fleur said:


> How do I stop feeling dread every time I feel like a relationship starts to be more about paying the bills, family problems, career woes and not about being passionate to each other?


Poly.


----------



## ukulele

I hate it! I hate it! I hate it!

Why people can't take you seriously just because you dare to want more? Why you have to be categorised? I perfectly know what I want and I do know it could be possible. Just f**king dare! How can you be satisfied with dullness? Why am I the boring one, why I am the one who has to start to live just because I don't consider "fun" fun? It's as dull as sitting and doing nothing. It is not intense or "living your life". It's superficial, draining. 

What I'm doing wrong by caring for people? Are you superior because you keep them at arm's length? You tell me I should do the same? Be detached? Where's enjoyment in that?!


----------



## ukulele

Temizzle said:


> What's your experience dating non sx-doms?
> 
> I find the intensity and drive for deeper connection is lacking, and the interaction feels unfulfilling at a fundamental level. The primary orientation is towards something else like playing it safe and trodding along in life with self restraint (SP) or an over-focus on social status and what he / she said to whom and when (SO).


I'm pretty sure by now SO would never ever work for me. SP is love and hate. I achieved deep connection with SP of the same MBTI type and the same enneagram, and I imagine I could be fully satisfied if they let me be (and appreciated) the intense me, if they went for (and enjoyed) adventures with me from time to time but otherwise were more... low key. I don't mind grounding and a lot of space, sometimes I need that. 

A half wild animal who likes its ass to be warm+ a domesticated animal who thinks it's a tiger (a cat). :kitteh:

I know I overwhelm, scare them. They misunderstand my nature, see it as something to be tamed. 
I'm also not sure if it's what they would want and if it was possible/enjoyable for them. Not just my desires. I know how very strong SP could "kill" me, my potential etc. 
If both parties(sx/sp, sp/sx) were balanced enough, both willing to learn from each other rather than be extremes, I'd be willing to try (only given we are VERY similar (xNTJ only... for now) and understand each other in other aspects, mindset of constant improvement must be present too, no settling). 

________________________________________________


Does anyone else just "know" right away after meeting a person if there's a potential for connection/what will you get from it/what kind of relations you can have with them? 
I need little time to know "oh, this one is special", "oh, we won't like each other roud:" and I'm rarely wrong but I've been wondering if it's not simply a self-fulfilling prophecy.


----------



## Neokortex

Rose for a Heart said:


> Are you questioning my type again? I didn't really mind initially, but this thread is where I come to vent privately and I don't want that stuff to be dragged around and analyzed for how much of the type I really am. I can assure you those trigger my SX issues, but I will not be going into more detail.


... and my magic response is this: Sx-dom opens up, instead of closing down... whooshhhh.... DD DD XDD
Man, I gotta try out dating an E4 girl, maybe these esoteric, mystical theories will get me close to the pulse of their current, to predict their whims, to allow to score. XDD


----------



## ukulele

Neokortex said:


> I bet you don't wanna get lost in Budapest, I had someone tell me it's the city of sin. But I'd imagine a "real" Sx/Sp wouldn't turn down such an opportunity of wallowing in the grit, the slime, the puke of the 8th district before reaching ("cathartically") to higher ground. >DDD


I must be a real Sx/Sp then :ninja: 
I got lost at night, during a heavy storm, stayed in a hostel in the 8th district( I think). I left the city with a real butterfly trapped in a tiny jar. 

I haven't seen anything extraordinary though. Just lots of drunk and loud groups of people. Not impressed.


----------



## Neokortex

ukulele said:


> I must be a real Sx/Sp then :ninja:
> I got lost at night, during a heavy storm, stayed in a hostel in the 8th district( I think). I left the city with a real butterfly trapped in a tiny jar.
> 
> I haven't seen anything extraordinary though. Just lots of drunk and loud groups of people. Not impressed.


Your writing style, if it's of any indication, suggests me So/Sx, though. But that's just a premature impression. Sx/Sps don't turn into butterflies. Because butterflies are light, colorful and do not carry the weight, the anguish of the deviant misfit's lonely, dark, grey, drab struggle of surviving or just trying to get ahead through the crowd without the emotional (and physical) support of a collective.


----------



## visceral

throwing myself into things is my specialty

i just need to feel _alive_


----------



## knife

This day is always hard for me. I don't like calling it by its name -- _de_naming things, I am starting to realize, is a way for me to exert some measure over control over something that bothers me. Dumbledore was wrong -- by _not_ naming Voldemort, the wizarding community was exerting control over the remnants of his tyranny. But anyway.

I ache for companionship. The pain, the want, the desire, the raw passion for it is so strong it chews me up inside. I _need_ it. I _need_ it to stop feeling ... feeling hollow inside. And here I am year after year never having it longing for it missing it ... I don't even have anybody to talk to. And this day of all days the emptiness presses. More than ever.


----------



## Donovan

i wouldn't call this "rage or rant" really. i came across a post of mine from something that had been quoted or thanked or whatever, but rereading it was interesting. almost inspiring, as it was something i could completely love or admire in another person, and yet, as i thought that the realization that it was _me_, was kind of surreal. 

it's interesting because, in whatever subjective-nonsensical-way--in culmination with other experiences--i've found that it seems that it is almost a choice to be a certain way. that it takes as much energy to relent in order to change and recreate, than it does to continuously keep at something in order to remain as you are. the significance of this is lost on me... very drunk and high at the moment, after a very long shift, and the point of this entire post is escaping me. if i come across anything that would make this worthwhile, i will let _all_ of you know.


----------



## star tripper

I've been feeling pretty guilty lately. My SO and I are in a "comfortable" place and I'm... not okay with that. There's still so much inside him I need to explore and so much uncharted territory in myself. He's begun repeatedly querying me what's on my mind, questioning every flash of emotion across my face, so I'm sure he, too, wants to dig. However, I keep deflecting. I want to eviscerate him but evidently I'm still keeping a piece of myself back?

I have this real craving. I've been penning horror fiction. I wanna bleed or make someone bleed.


----------



## Animal




----------



## knife

I've been feeling deeply hollow inside lately ... aching, always aching. I miss having a lover. I miss being in love. I _want_ it, I want to come home home to somebody, to talk and think and brainstorm and relax under somebody's touch more than anything. I WANT TO BE EMOTIONALLY FULFILLED GODDAMMIT. And physically, too. Physically is always a nice plus. And yet ... it's come back to the same old struggle, the thing I've never been able to figure out how to express, not in high school, not in college, not now ... the feeling that what I want so bad, more than anything else, _to be in love_, to have somebody to confide in and feel like I can let my guard down with ... It has always felt like my core desire, latent and blatant, is almost insurmountably alien to the outside world ... How can I express my drive, my driver, what I WANT deep down, when it feels like _nobody else_ wants it either? And so I paradoxically become _more_ guarded, less able to talk about what _I_ want, floundering ... again and again ... 

I miss her. More than anything, I miss her. I miss coming home and talking to her or at least seeing the messages she left for me, when our schedules didn't mesh, the hours and hours shooting the breeze, the way her body felt under me ... day after day, I want to hear her voice again. I'd run back to her in a second if she wants me again ...


----------



## drmiller100

I wanted a lady who could understand me, deeply. Who loved me for what and who I really am. Who was kinky as fuck, horny as hell, loved to travel like me, see life, grow, learn explore. Who I could fall in love with. 

Well, we found each other. 

and fell in love. 

For next time, I'm adding "available" to the list of requirements.


----------



## goldthysanura

often I feel like the only way I can connect to the emotions I want to connect to, is by listening to music. Lately as I've been getting awfully depressed, I can't stop listening to this one song. 



 At work I get to play whatever music I want, and I've played this song a few times, but it makes me want to cry, even when I'm at work. I imagine dancing with someone who I'm in love with but shouldn't be with anymore and letting them go...or letting go of my old self, even though the dance with the old pain is kind of beautiful in a way.

Today I had a couple moments of connection with people that were in the flesh, not just connections to songs. First, I was in therapy. I was outlining all the reasons for my depression and thinking about it from different angles, explaining it to my therapist. Only, I was being cerebral, I wasn't really connecting with him--I was almost pretending that he wasn't there, like I was talking to someone who I haven't talked to one hour a week for the past two years of life. but I asked him for advice--what should I do?--and he told me to just exist and notice how I felt in the moment. And then I was honest. I said I felt frustrated. That I was afraid everything I'm working toward will collapse under the weight of my hopelessness. And I asked him what it's been like seeing me over the past two years. He told me that he knows I always deflect compliments, so he would try to frame his compliment in a way that was as un-deflectable as possible. He told me that he sees something beautiful in the way I write music and try to be a better person, and that I'm not the same person I was two years ago, and that I have a kind of "gentle kindness" about me. I told him that I don't think I am really gentle and kind--at least not on the inside. He said I could try being that way to myself, instead of only on the outside, instead of only being kind as a way of defending myself against other people...or that is the consensus we reached together, anyway. It felt amazing to connect to him like this. 

The other moment of connection was when I went out to play pool and drink with two of my coworkers after our shift tonight. I was originally going to just go with one of them because he asked me to, but I had been wanting to befriend a certain other coworker for a while, so I asked her if she wanted to come too. I gritted my death through the depression today, through all the awful thoughts I was having, and then I forced myself to go out with them. Me and the girl coworker I invited out kept clapping like seals when the guy coworker would make points in pool. We played a couple games against some death metal-y pool shark types and I was awful. But I made sure to cheer on the other two. When the bar was closing, I wanted to tell both of my new friends why I think they're great, but I only got the chance to tell the one I invited. And so it seems I now have a new friend! She does Irish dancing and she is a lot of fun to be around, but also seems real and honest from what I pick up so far. I'm usually bad at making friends--I'm awkward as all hell with people unless I really click with them. So this is something great, and unexpected seeing as how I've been feeling so grim this past week.


----------



## Neokortex

goldthysanura said:


> often I feel like the only way I can connect to the emotions I want to connect to, is by listening to music.


 I have problems with that too. Don't know what to blame it on, being a "heart type" of an adaptive "social instinct" or just plainly being a covert narcissist, unable to express his inferiority. I guess 9s are more like... Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen.


> (...) And I asked him what it's been like seeing me over the past two years.


2 years... pfffhh, must've costed a fortune!


> so I asked her if she wanted to come too. I gritted my death through the depression today, through all the awful thoughts I was having, and then I forced myself to go out with them.


 you forced yourself... I feel you there, man... the bane of the introverts... arghhh. "Me and the girl coworker I invited out kept clapping like seals when the guy coworker would make points in pool." Arrggghhhhh again "We played a couple games against some death metal-y pool shark types and I was awful. But I made sure to cheer on the other two." 2x Arrghh, crap! 


> And so it seems I now have a new friend! She does Irish dancing and she is a lot of fun to be around, but also seems real and honest from what I pick up so far. I'm usually bad at making friends--I'm awkward as all hell with people unless I really click with them. So this is something great, and unexpected seeing as how I've been feeling so grim this past week.


 Yea, I had this too, right then when it feels like "Apocalypse Now!" some door opens, it seems, some new woman comes in tantalizing you to believe you still have chances... And then the cycle repeats.


----------



## goldthysanura

Neokortex said:


> I have problems with that too. Don't know what to blame it on, being a "heart type" of an adaptive "social instinct" or just plainly being a covert narcissist, unable to express his inferiority. I guess 9s are more like... Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen.
> 2 years... pfffhh, must've costed a fortune! you forced yourself... I feel you there, man... the bane of the introverts... arghhh. "Me and the girl coworker I invited out kept clapping like seals when the guy coworker would make points in pool." Arrggghhhhh again "We played a couple games against some death metal-y pool shark types and I was awful. But I made sure to cheer on the other two." 2x Arrghh, crap!
> Yea, I had this too, right then when it feels like "Apocalypse Now!" some door opens, it seems, some new woman comes in tantalizing you to believe you still have chances... And then the cycle repeats.


I don't know that reference, but the Wiki entry says that he's a posthuman God, which does sound sorta 9-like.

"Dr. Manhattan, though supremely powerful, suffers from a decreasing ability to relate to normal humans. Perhaps due to his perception of time and realisation of the deterministic universe, he begins to show symptoms of apathy. From his radically altered perspective, almost all human concerns appear pointless and without obvious merit."

A lot of the time, when I talk to people, the conversations I have are pretty mundane. What I want is to transcend that. And it can be hard to find those moments with people that reach beyond the normal barriers we put up, when me and the other person are both being emotionally vulnerable and honest and harmonious. There was a time a couple weeks ago when I was talking to a friend about his life, and he said, "Sam, love is complicated." I know that people say that all the time, but the way he said it, he meant it completely, and it resonated with me. Moments like that are important to me, but I don't get them as often as I want, and that's part of why I look to music for that connection.

I'm gay, so luckily I don't have to worry about impressing women with my pool skills.  Although, in situations like that, I do still feel this sense of competition even if it doesn't matter in the scheme of things, to the extent that I've thought about practicing so that I do better next time. I want to feel more capable in these situations. And maybe...be a little more impressive. haha


----------



## Neokortex

Animal said:


>


Hey, that's really good! Look, there's Slash from Guns'n'Roses! DD D It makes sense, that guy does come across as an assertive 9 (not sure if it's bc of a w8 or a hedonistic 7?) And the 7s! Ha! xDD They really look like gigolos, voluptuary playboys (damn, it triggers me somehow..., methinks of Kiss, and their uuhh,... groupies (yeaah, I know, every band had them, it was really part of the scene, and in a sense, a large part of the American culture as well, sx 7, I mean; although I think Kiss and Aerosmith had it really strong, whereas lot of the bands, even if they lived in it, perhaps weren't as crazy about it to... to be as sleazy about it as was Kiss when invited prostitutes on the stage..., okay, end of rant). But yeah, Led Zeppelin on a porn shooting event, the hell was that about? And not all porn is Sx 7! There are these hippies... okay, end of rant for real, now. xDDD

Oh, and Sx 1s I think are harder to spot. Sx 2 are like demons disguised as angels.Oh, hey look, that's Joan Jett! MAn, I gotta stop looking at this picture, it's making me crazy aaaarrrghhhh


* *




here's something to cool down from the unhealthy Sx (as being detached in my case, from So), be it vanilla if it means reintegration


----------



## Neokortex

goldthysanura said:


> I don't know that reference, but the Wiki entry says that he's a posthuman God, which does sound sorta 9-like.
> 
> "Dr. Manhattan, though supremely powerful, suffers from a decreasing ability to relate to normal humans. Perhaps due to his perception of time and realisation of the deterministic universe, he begins to show symptoms of apathy. From his radically altered perspective, almost all human concerns appear pointless and without obvious merit."
> 
> A lot of the time, when I talk to people, the conversations I have are pretty mundane. What I want is to transcend that. And it can be hard to find those moments with people that reach beyond the normal barriers we put up, when me and the other person are both being emotionally vulnerable and honest and harmonious. There was a time a couple weeks ago when I was talking to a friend about his life, and he said, "Sam, love is complicated." I know that people say that all the time, but the way he said it, he meant it completely, and it resonated with me. Moments like that are important to me, but I don't get them as often as I want, and that's part of why I look to music for that connection.
> 
> I'm gay, so luckily I don't have to worry about impressing women with my pool skills.  Although, in situations like that, I do still feel this sense of competition even if it doesn't matter in the scheme of things, to the extent that I've thought about practicing so that I do better next time. I want to feel more capable in these situations. And maybe...be a little more impressive. haha


So you want emotional intimacy? Perhaps that's what I also need to make healthy relationships but I really find it hard to express my emotions... Because they are so vain, so destructive, so..., not PC. I don't know if this is an INFP thing or not.... but I guess even with me when it comes to emotions, your conversations would still end up being pretty mundane. I'm more cerebral, if intimacy can be many things, then say, I'm as intimate as an asperger can be, very geeky, detail obsessed. But even that doesn't feel right with a lot of people.

To feel competition for a gay when there's a woman around? That's new. So you'd practice pool in advance to impress the guys or the girl?


----------



## goldthysanura

Neokortex said:


> So you want emotional intimacy? Perhaps that's what I also need to make healthy relationships but I really find it hard to express my emotions... Because they are so vain, so destructive, so..., not PC. I don't know if this is an INFP thing or not.... but I guess even with me when it comes to emotions, your conversations would still end up being pretty mundane. I'm more cerebral, if intimacy can be many things, then say, I'm as intimate as an asperger can be, very geeky, detail obsessed. But even that doesn't feel right with a lot of people.
> 
> To feel competition for a gay when there's a woman around? That's new. So you'd practice pool in advance to impress the guys or the girl?


what kinds of vain destructive emotions do you have? I'm so curious now haha
not in order to impress any one person...but after they would make a successful shot, they would both be so happy for each other, and I guess I want that too. to share in that sense of camaraderie and good feeling. maybe that kind of thing means I'm not so-last after all...I'm still trying to figure out this instinct stuff.


----------



## Neokortex

goldthysanura said:


> what kinds of vain destructive emotions do you have? I'm so curious now haha
> not in order to impress any one person...but after they would make a successful shot, they would both be so happy for each other, and I guess I want that too. to share in that sense of camaraderie and good feeling. maybe that kind of thing means I'm not so-last after all...I'm still trying to figure out this instinct stuff.


yea, that sounds pretty So-first. The group dynamic, the group feeling. I'm sooo much a vampire compared to that. I know how it feels like, I get a taste of it here and there but narcissism is still by far the most dominating. I dunno, it's just that I have to be the first, push down others, win the race, win the race, win the race. There's always some race going on. I can't think otherwise. Well, not always but it's this mad dissociation that happens... in one moment I feel happy for the people and group, in the other I'm worried about my future and think of the group as a supply, as a stepping stone for me to crawl over. There particular individuals whom I value, I find it warm, good to be with; yet, at the end of the day it's my money, my future, my survival that matters. I can't get myself to comprehend group survival, doing it all together. It's always this break away, this schizophrenic split, where I no longer feel I can keep up with them, the team-spirit camaraderie thing, I'm never lost in that, when suddenly it's ME again, and the other people become, sort of... objects, alien to me. Or a hindrance, a service that I have to be paying back four for fairness to be sustained, you know, they give me, I give back... Still, it would take long to wait out till my country becomes rich and my country's standards rise as well, I'd rather leave, emigrate, than wait it out. It's selfish but that's what it is.


----------



## Neokortex

Animal said:


>


How about adding uuh, Henry Rollins to E1 Sx/Sp (is that "instinctual" or is he really a "basket case" he used to say?)?
Or Gary Moore to... I dunno some kind of an ESxP with Sx...4 or 7? 
* *




I know a Spanish guy, a "rebel" guitarist xDD a very in-betweener rare type, resembles this Moore fellow, really passionate bohemian but in a strong way, than the purely profit/image seeking "artists."
His favorite is punk, he said and later, after parting ways, in a different city I met a girl who had known him from his days, when we worked together. It turned out they were playing together in bars. This smaller town we worked in didn't have much going, he quit the job and left earlier but came back to visit... met on a little hill/bump outside town and he brought booze and the craziest thing was that girls were showing up, I had been mad for there weren't lot of my aged girls in the town but these were older and it turned out he'd been partying so much, he had so much charisma that these girls didn't bother to come out only so as to meet him.






"Fish" from Marillion, British melodic prog-rock. Some sad Sx/Sp-like guy, mourns the loss of his wife and children in the music videos. Got fired later from the band.

...yeah, adding Mystique to Sx 6 was a nice touch. Strong 6 women are like these coy but counter-phobically reconnaissance/clandestine agent.


----------



## Neokortex

just so beautiful... for our terrible world...


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Neokortex said:


> just so beautiful... for our terrible world...


In what way do you find it related to Sx?


----------



## Llyralen

Okay @Lord Pixel The only thing we learn from this is that INFP males have the highest marital satisfaction rate of any introverted males. Also ESTJ women had the second to highest rate of both partners being satisfied at 77% both satisfied. That's every type rating them, not specifically INFP. They didn't study specific type pairings like that. But those things bode well, I'd say. I found another marital study on The BIG 5. It was saying that high neuroticism was the biggest thing negatively associated with negative satisfaction.

https://www.capt.org/jpt/pdfFiles/Marioles_N_et_al_Vol_36_16_27.pdf


----------



## ukulele

Llyralen said:


> I'm also wondering what other sx doms (like myself) do when they need more intensity and intimacy?


Slowly die inside.
I actually asked, not that long time ago, how to balance it out...

Perhaps the solution is to redirect your intensity onto finding _passion*s*_ (regular hobbies and other people don't really work for me, they're distractions, not a source of my energy) and then one will have less "energy cravings" so the threshold for how much intimacy (time, not quality wise) one needs will lower therefore sp(/sx) will be more willing to meet your needs. I don't know.


----------



## L P

Llyralen said:


> Okay @Lord Pixel The only thing we learn from this is that INFP males have the highest marital satisfaction rate of any introverted males. Also ESTJ women had the second to highest rate of both partners being satisfied at 77% both satisfied. That's every type rating them, not specifically INFP. They didn't study specific type pairings like that. But those things bode well, I'd say. I found another marital study on The BIG 5. It was saying that high neuroticism was the biggest thing negatively associated with negative satisfaction.
> 
> https://www.capt.org/jpt/pdfFiles/Marioles_N_et_al_Vol_36_16_27.pdf


Interesting statistic about INFP males.

But is what I said like an SX thing or no?


----------



## Llyralen

ukulele said:


> Slowly die inside.
> I actually asked, not that long time ago, how to balance it out...
> 
> Perhaps the solution is to redirect your intensity onto finding _passion*s*_ (regular hobbies and other people don't really work for me, they're distractions, not a source of my energy) and then one will have less "energy cravings" so the threshold for how much intimacy (time, not quality wise) one needs will lower therefore sp(/sx) will be more willing to meet your needs. I don't know.


Thanks ukulele. Art-- that's right it has to do with sx too. Thanks!


----------



## L P

Llyralen said:


> I know a married couple whose story went like this: She saw him at a party. She felt like she just knew he could be the man for her. She asked her friends about him. They said he was in a relationship and lived in the city 3 hours away. She went outside with him and said, "I know you are currently in a relationship and I would never want to do anything to mess that up, but if in case it doesn't work out, you know how to contact me."
> 3 months later he contacted her. Said his relationship was over. Said he had been waiting his whole life for a woman to choose him. They seem super sweet and happy.
> 
> Pixel, though.... there's actually a disproportionate amount of INFP ESTJ marriages---like it's one of the most common pairings. I can see why it might seem attractive to INFPs. I don't recommend it to anybody, but who knows. Like I'd be interested to know if the INFPs in these relationships are miserable or what. The ESTJs in my husband's family have a really hard time listening and understanding. I do know some ESTJs who try, though, and the protective parts of them is delicious. I dated one at one point and it wasn't a horrible experience-- but I really wonder long term. It would be nice if there was some data.... maybe there is. There was a study on that. I'll check into it.


Idk, I've scoured the Internet trust me, and have found few good examples among many horror stories. But I can't deny everything I said in that post, it's all just there.

2 things attract me like nothing else, Fi in other people, I can smell it and it is delicious, and folks who like Ne, it's like appreciation for what I am good at and makes me feel like I am on top of the moon.


----------



## Llyralen

Lord Pixel said:


> Idk, I've scoured the Internet trust me, and have found few good examples among many horror stories. But I can't deny everything I said in that post, it's all just there.
> 
> 2 things attract me like nothing else, Fi in other people, I can smell it and it is delicious, and folks who like Ne, it's like appreciation for what I am good at and makes me feel like I am on top of the moon.


I wouldn't dream of discounting anything your Ne feels. I'm sure you're right on that. But I think things change as you date. I'd date for a while on this one, but that's my experiences talking, which I didn't have at your age. But hey, you've obviously done more research than me on this one.

What did you think of the story of the couple I told you? Hmm? Kind of the girl's version of what you want to do. I wonder if there is a guy version I could think of. Could you play dumb about her having a boyfriend? Or did she tell you herself? I don't know... "no regrets" is a real thing imo.


----------



## Llyralen

Lord Pixel said:


> Interesting statistic about INFP males.
> 
> But is what I said like an SX thing or no?


Oh.. .are you wondering if you're sx or not? I don't know, um... sx can see chemistry really easily. However, when single and looking for a partner sp becomes more sx... at least that was true for my husband and I saw something written about it. That sx becomes more so when dating (true) and sp becomes more sx (true). Would you say your main drive is stability,intimacy with 1 person, or doing what is needed for a group?


----------



## L P

Llyralen said:


> I wouldn't dream of discounting anything your Ne feels. I'm sure you're right on that. But I think things change as you date. I'd date for a while on this one, but that's my experiences talking, which I didn't have at your age. But hey, you've obviously done more research than me on this one.
> 
> What did you think of the story of the couple I told you? Hmm? Kind of the girl's version of what you want to do. I wonder if there is a guy version I could think of. Could you play dumb about her having a boyfriend? Or did she tell you herself? I don't know... "no regrets" is a real thing imo.


Oh yea sorry.

That story seemed bold as hell. But I kinda want to do that, it seems worth it. And yea if things didn't work out while dating I'll probably be in for a sobering experience and run lol. And yea she told me about the boyfriend.







Llyralen said:


> Oh.. .are you wondering if you're sx or not? I don't know, um... sx can see chemistry really easily. However, when single and looking for a partner sp becomes more sx... at least that was true for my husband and I saw something written about it. That sx becomes more so when dating (true) and sp becomes more sx (true). Would you say your main drive is stability,intimacy with 1 person, or doing what is needed for a group?


Oh no, I'm So/Sx. But I can never tell what my Sx does. I also read that same article too. I can kiiiiinda confirm it, like when I am looking for someone I am always aware of "I need to get myself together or they won't like me" so I guess that's stability and Sp-like. And a SX girl I dated became more SO aware when looking for someone.


----------



## Llyralen

Lord Pixel said:


> Oh yea sorry.
> 
> That story seemed bold as hell. But I kinda want to do that, it seems worth it. And yea if things didn't work out while dating I'll probably be in for a sobering experience and run lol. And yea she told me about the boyfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no, I'm So/Sx. But I can never tell what my Sx does. I also read that same article too. I can kiiiiinda confirm it, like when I am looking for someone I am always aware of "I need to get myself together or they won't like me" so I guess that's stability and Sp-like. And a SX girl I dated became more SO aware when looking for someone.


Trust your Ne... 
No regrets... but do look for an opportunity to be bold. It will roll around soon enough... Ne shows those to us. As I'm sure you know. 
And yeah... that article seemed right. True for me, anyway. =) 
Keep me posted every once in a while. It's not every day that you feel that strongly around someone. I get it, Pixel. /hugs!


----------



## L P

Llyralen said:


> Trust your Ne...
> No regrets... but do look for an opportunity to be bold. It will roll around soon enough... Ne shows those to us. As I'm sure you know.
> And yeah... that article seemed right. True for me, anyway. =)
> Keep me posted every once in a while. It's not every day that you feel that strongly around someone. I get it, Pixel. /hugs!



Thanks, I feel some sense of inevitablity with that girl so idk.

Also would you say that's an SX like thing? My post?


And I completely missed the part in the beginning of that story that said they were married BTW, wow lol. That's kinda crazy that it happened like that.

And idk why I'm guessing that girl in the story is INTJ.


----------



## Llyralen

Lord Pixel said:


> Thanks, I feel some sense of inevitablity with that girl so idk.
> 
> Also would you say that's an SX like thing? My post?
> 
> 
> And I completely missed the part in the beginning of that story that said they were married BTW, wow lol. That's kinda crazy that it happened like that.


Totally happy too. The part about your story that I see as using SX is the part that you are reading the chemistry between you. The craving for sx is like the craving to get in close, physically and mentally and emotionally, find out every crazy thing about them, go deeper and deeper like as if you were exploring another planet, become completely exposed and vulnerable yourself and them and feel like you are safe. But yeah... I see chemistry... I feel chemistry. It's a strong pull, for me in the mental/emotional realms first and then physical if they fit all of the other criteria. Of course I'm married, so what I want is time talking and talking until 3:00 am, to know everything about him and to have him pull everything out of me and also the physical. It's time spent in absolute decadence. ]

I really don't jive with groups much or care if I'm jiving with them. At parties I always want to talk to people on a one on one which makes it... awkward for them if they aren't sx too. But what I want is that intimacy and closeness and depth. I want to hear everyone's toughest things and their happiest things. I want to be there with them on all of it. Too deep isn't deep enough. However, I'm more so variant than I am sp which is pretty non-existent for me. I really liked your description earlier of so. 

These are my first posts on this board and so I'm kind of relieved to be talking about it and to see what other people have written. I liked what I saw on colliding earlier. One of my best love poems talks a lot about collision. And I agree. Collision is so much more intense than merging.


----------



## L P

Llyralen said:


> Totally happy too. The part about your story that I see as using SX is the part that you are reading the chemistry between you. The craving for sx is like the craving to get in close, physically and mentally and emotionally, find out every crazy thing about them, go deeper and deeper like as if you were exploring another planet, become completely exposed and vulnerable yourself and them and feel like you are safe. But yeah... I see chemistry... I feel chemistry. It's a strong pull, for me in the mental/emotional realms first and then physical if they fit all of the other criteria. Of course I'm married, so what I want is time talking and talking until 3:00 am, to know everything about him and to have him pull everything out of me and also the physical. It's time spent in absolute decadence. ]
> 
> I really don't jive with groups much or care if I'm jiving with them. At parties I always want to talk to people on a one on one which makes it... awkward for them if they aren't sx too. But what I want is that intimacy and closeness and depth. I want to hear everyone's toughest things and their happiest things. I want to be there with them on all of it. Too deep isn't deep enough. However, I'm more so variant than I am sp which is pretty non-existent for me. I really liked your description earlier of so.
> 
> These are my first posts on this board and so I'm kind of relieved to be talking about it and to see what other people have written. I liked what I saw on colliding earlier. One of my best love poems talks a lot about collision. And I agree. Collision is so much more intense than merging.


Ah ok so chemistry would be a Sx thing. Sx sounds really intense lol. The chemistry you see is it always real, is it never just a hunch on your end? Maybe because you are Ne-dom you are more accurate with whether it's real or not. 

The Collision thing still sounded like merging to me, one does not have to fade into the other, the 2 can become one. I have felt the collision before, perhaps the person was SX dom because it literally felt like an air wave lol. Just, I'm not sure if I was projecting or not, but I doubt it, that thing slapped me right in the body, but very very very delicious, like a meal the whole body can taste. But for Sx second like me, can be quite scary lol.

Also was the girl in the story INTJ?


----------



## Llyralen

Lord Pixel said:


> Ah ok so chemistry would be a Sx thing. Sx sounds really intense lol. The chemistry you see is it always real, is it never just a hunch on your end? Maybe because you are Ne-dom you are more accurate with whether it's real or not.
> 
> The Collision thing still sounded like merging to me, one does not have to fade into the other, the 2 can become one. I have felt the collision before, perhaps the person was SX dom because it literally felt like an air wave lol. Just, I'm not sure if I was projecting or not, but I doubt it, that thing slapped me right in the body, but very very very delicious, like a meal the whole body can taste. But for Sx second like me, can be quite scary lol.
> 
> Also was the girl in the story INTJ?


INTJ really sounds right for her now that you say it. I can't think of what else she would be, so there you go. Oh, maybe ENFJ might be another thing she could be. I didn't know her that well. It's true there was Ni there, you spotted it. 

"Very delicious, like a meal the whole body can taste." E.X.A.C.T.L.Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I need that food, crave that food...yep!

Um, in college I sometimes knew 2 people would get married before they even met. I'd say so to my roommates and 6 months later they were engaged. It would have to be a very strong impression for me or else I knew not to say anything. This is one of my super powers, though. I really was in tune with all of this. I often predicted when guys were going to ask my roommates out and my roommates usually wanted to know my thoughts on all of this. However, what I can truly tell you is that I know when guys like me for sure. I remember the following conversation from an ENTP getting real with me. I didn't like him that way. He was a friend, however, who was often around and I liked him as a friend. 

ENTP: For this whole year I've been obsessed with you. I felt like you were just like a hole that I wanted to jump into. 
Me: Nodded. I like you as a friend. 
ENTP: What else do you know? Do all girls know when guys like them? How do you know?
Me: I think most of us do. 
ENTP: Can you tell when I'm checking you out?
Me: Yes. 
ENTP: When?
ME Today.
ENTP Like when?
Me: "Earlier at the park when I was standing by that tree. Before when we were back at the apartment and I was laying down. Here, when I was walking through the door and was in front of you and _now_." Because he was staring at me like he was in a trance.
ENTP: Oh. Hmm.
ME: Now I'm curious, am I right?
ENTP: You're... yeah. 


LOL! His phrase about him thinking of me like a hole he wanted to jump into. It was romantic enough to have stuck in my brain... but kind of bugs me too. I wish he had used different imagery since it was going to get stuck in my brain and I really don't like being compared to a hole, but I like to think of it as a compliment that he thought what I am is a good place to live, basically. 

It's cool to hear your experiences with Sx girls, Pixel! That tends to be what I understand I guess of my intensity. A bit scary. I wonder what my hubby would say about the whole body food--- that is how I experience it! night, bud!


----------



## angelfish

Llyralen said:


> I'm also wondering what other sx doms (like myself) do when they need more intensity and intimacy? My husband is sp/(so or sx, I don't know what his second variant is, I THINK sx, but it's so far behind mine). I know this is why I am still on PerC is because I need that intensity somewhere and I have a busy life and I don't think I can deal with the expectations that a real life friend would place on me on a day to day basis since mostly I am busy with work and my kids. Anyway.... it's about sex, but it's not about the physical act of sex not exactly. *It's about sex meaning intimacy and closeness and time spent and also the talking. Just talking about everything and kissing, etc. I'm not looking to get any of that anywhere else than from my husband, but what if I'm not getting enough? What do you guys do?* Why is this all so far from people who are not sx dom to understand. I mean... I am all about communication.


Yes it's exactly this... thank you so much for wording it as you did... it seems like he and I have "run out" of depth and intensity... and I can't for the life of me understand it... I could talk forever about relationships and family and experiences and feelings - or go have some wild little adventure like driving to the beach and back for 24 hours - or just have sex on the living room floor at 4 pm on a Wednesday and then order takeout and curl up together because it's that funny sweet crazy bonding kind of thing - but my husband isn't into almost any of it, and I want this all with him and I don't want to overwhelm him but I thought it was what makes relationships special and wonderful and the lifeblood of my existence. I do work my ass off at my job - I open up emotionally on here a bit - I have a good friend in the area but my husband doesn't want me to spend 1-on-1 time with him - I do yoga - I guess I need to dive into more hobbies or find a female friend but I really really really just want intimate connection and bidirectional magnetism with this guy that I've pledged my whole life to. My husband says I sound like a teenager and what I want is an immature crush relationship like in my 20s. I know some degree of settling/calming happens with age, but I thought I was always clear that all that fun/intensity/intimacy was what I was after. I thought marriage would just mean having ebbs and flows of that over time, not that going away except for over the few weeks of summer vacation. I'm getting totally drained and I'm going stir-crazy and I don't have a freaking clue what to do. 



Llyralen said:


> The craving for sx is like the craving to get in close, physically and mentally and emotionally, find out every crazy thing about them, go deeper and deeper like as if you were exploring another planet, become completely exposed and vulnerable yourself and them and feel like you are safe. But yeah... I see chemistry... I feel chemistry. It's a strong pull, for me in the mental/emotional realms first and then physical if they fit all of the other criteria. Of course I'm married, so what I want is time talking and talking until 3:00 am, to know everything about him and to have him pull everything out of me and also the physical. It's time spent in absolute decadence. [...] Too deep isn't deep enough.


Sigh...


----------



## Euclid

Llyralen said:


> I'm also wondering what other sx doms (like myself) do when they need more intensity and intimacy? My husband is sp/(so or sx, I don't know what his second variant is, I THINK sx, but it's so far behind mine). I know this is why I am still on PerC is because I need that intensity somewhere and I have a busy life and I don't think I can deal with the expectations that a real life friend would place on me on a day to day basis since mostly I am busy with work and my kids. Anyway.... it's about sex, but it's not about the physical act of sex not exactly. It's about sex meaning intimacy and closeness and time spent and also the talking. Just talking about everything and kissing, etc. I'm not looking to get any of that anywhere else than from my husband, but what if I'm not getting enough? What do you guys do? Why is this all so far from people who are not sx dom to understand. I mean... I am all about communication.


When not in a relationship, it's not that bad, I just pour my love into one of my pet projects instead. When in a relationship, it's a problem though, so I screen any potential candidates by cranking up the intensity early on, to see if it scares them off, or if the chemistry works, because it's going to be pretty much at full intensity from then on until the wheels fall off.


----------



## Neokortex

angelfish said:


> Yes it's exactly this... [...] I could talk forever about relationships and family and experiences and feelings - or go have some wild little adventure like driving to the beach and back for 24 hours - or just have sex on the living room floor at 4 pm on a Wednesday and then order takeout and curl up together because it's that funny sweet crazy bonding kind of thing - but my husband isn't into almost any of it, and I want this all with him and I don't want to overwhelm him [...].


Overwhelm him?? With what? D Frankly, I don't see anything overwhelming, "too intense" about these... what you have enlisted there seem "traditional," vanilla sexual needs.


> I think when we were in the young/chasing phase, I was quite happy, and I (naively) assumed that spark/enthusiasm would return upon marriage, since I thought ISFJ 9w1 sp/soc would be deeply pleased by stability and vows and so on. Instead I find that *marriage is a lot of rejection* and a lot of frustration. On his part he finds me frustrated (he is right, I am, sexually and otherwise!) and hostile. I certainly don't intend to be hostile but I also certainly do have a looooot of pent up sexual/relational energy.


 I mean this does sound like a case of just sexual dissatisfaction, initially, with this as much info. Sure your husband's not seeing anyone else? Why would an So/Sx "marry" an Sp/So and hope that for him the spark/enthusiasm would return _*because*_ of being pleased by stability and vows and so on? Sx has never been about stability (except perhaps in the case of Sp/Sx). It's more about competition/risk - stability is not a turn on, neither is the social institution of marriage. (We are fortunate, though, for having such an institution because there's not much else to stop the crazy Sx people causing havoc than society; e.g. Brontë: _Jane Eyre_) The question is, if you really were an so/sx, how could you have put up with this as little for this as long?


> I have a good friend in the area but my husband doesn't want me to spend 1-on-1 time with him - I do yoga - I guess I need to dive into more hobbies or find a female friend but I really really really just want intimate connection and bidirectional magnetism with this guy that I've pledged my whole life to. [...]
> 
> Sigh...


The 2nd time you're mentioning this friend of yours. Yoga instructor? (GTA5?) Are you, then asking us for permission to have a little hanky-panky with the yoga-teacher?

For more reference about So/Sx, you might wanna check out this lady. So/Sx is not just about 1-on-1 but "what would the others think if they got word of what crazy thing we did together?" It's more about the ripples on the social web, every move, gesture is a public social-political-campaign: they bend the rules so as to gain a social position where it is forgiven and looks cool. They don't break taboos for the sake of it but to gain some higher social status, get more followers and with that in turn PROVIDE FOR THE SP. You working your ass off at your job doesn't sound like "outsourcing sp" / keeping your connections "on the burner" so you could anytime borrow/pull in some dough/favors from some special friend. @Llyralen 's got that energy. Note the nimble playfulness in her sentences. Those wide surprises, giddiness - of course, that's just the front. But in this glaze is where their energy "buzzes" (and it varies w/ diff. subtypes). She's personable by thouing @Lord Pixel, (nicknaming him "Pixel") sending hugs as if they were already friends (maybe they are friends online but...


Llyralen said:


> I'm also wondering what other sx doms (like myself) do when they need more intensity and intimacy? My husband is sp/(so or sx, I don't know what his second variant is, I THINK sx, but it's so far behind mine). I know this is why I am still on PerC is because I need that intensity somewhere


...the reason why I don't make friends here because I don't get that "intensity" on PerC. It's more like a stopgap for my alienation from my hometown and being currently unemployed.)


Llyralen said:


> I really don't jive with groups much or care if I'm jiving with them. At *parties* I always want to talk to *people* on a one on one which makes it... awkward for them if they aren't sx too. But what I want is that intimacy and closeness and depth


 +Note she uses "people," plural and regarding "not jiving with groups" and focusing on 1-on-1 depth, she divides her attention between @Lord Pixel and @ukulele, delivering them both positive, upbeat feedback. Not sure about how "deep" that is or if you could really *talk* "deeply" with people on (loud) parties, other than giving each other deep-deep rubs on the dance floor, but theh POwAh, dat jUiCe is there for sure. So what's jiving with a group if not these? Keeping their finger on the pulse of the social. I initially wanted to reply to some other posts here too but now I have spent, like 1 hour&a half compiling this... all to you... my blessed... my dear... up on the pedestal... @angelfish DDD


----------



## Neokortex

Euclid said:


> When not in a relationship, it's not that bad, I just pour my love into one of my pet projects instead. When in a relationship, it's a problem though, so I screen any potential candidates by cranking up the intensity early on, to see if it scares them off, or if the chemistry works, because it's going to be pretty much at full intensity from then on *until the wheels fall off.*


DDDDDD Now be careful there, mister! Women are fragile human, too much intensity can break them and then they'll cry out #MeToo!
But by now I'm so good at reading the socials I'm not even bothering cranking it up. There was one so/sx girl, though, to whom I confessed I was a psychopath. And that got her so curious that she immediately started mirroring me by saying she was also a psychopath. xDDD XDDDD


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Neokortex said:


> Why would an So/Sx "marry" an Sp/So and hope that for him the spark/enthusiasm would return _*because *_of being pleased by stability and vows and so on? Sx has never been about stability (except perhaps in the case of Sp/Sx). It's more about competition - stability is not a turn on, neither is the social institution of marriage. (We are fortunate, though, for having such an institution because there's not much else to stop the crazy Sx people causing havoc than society.) The question is, if you really were an so/sx, how could you have put up with this as little for this as long?


I dunno, but for example... I can crave a certain type of intensity from someone, but since I'm Self-pres primary my needs for safety comes first. Of course these two needs can be in conflict, since Sx is the opposite of that...^^; but I can see the reasoning in marrying an SpSo to create a safe space where they might let down their walls and be open to more intensity than they otherwise would?


----------



## d e c a d e n t

@*Neokortex* 
Actually I've heard of "outsourcing" the blindspot before, but now I'm curious what would be other examples of outsourcing it? Are there equivalents for the other instincts? Like you can outsource So or Sx?


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Or like, an Sp will also use others for their Sp-needs, so when an Sp-last does it they're less consciously aware of it?


----------



## L P

ukulele said:


> I'd say that if you feel your nervous system activated upon a trigger and that if you have little control over your reaction - that's attachment, not instinct. (To compare, not every anxious-preoccupied person who pushes for more and more closeness is SX)
> It could be helpful to separate those things because your instinct it's not something you should fix, it's your nature but an insecure attachment style? It's a coping mechanism you needed, but not anymore. It fucks you (and others) over, imho.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, not all.roud: You just need someone secure or someone who's willing to work on it (along with you). From what you're saying it seems you get involved with anxious-preoccupied women (it's a common pairing, insecure people attract insecure people, even though the dynamic is exhausting, secure people are often seen as boring, it's true for meh: ) which will react to any sign of (perceived) rejection and perhaps you as dismissive, you're using distancing techniques without realizing it.


Interesting how the video turned out, I did not expect that ending.


----------



## L P

Llyralen said:


> I suppose other people notice that I will spend energy on a few people in a group and not on the others. I usually don't think of myself as important enough for anyone to care about that. Maybe they do. I would think an SO person would feel I was breaking up the group dynamic. For sure I do. I never thought it was any skin off any body's nose. If someone wants to be close to me, they only have to be sincere about it... but that would be on an individual thing. I might not be correct but I think SO variant usually cares about what a group looks like and who is in that group and enjoying the group. I see that, but I really only care that inside of that group I can find someone to grow closer to, because that's the only way I can get comfortable and feel like I'm at ease. Where I think most SOs want to work to feel at ease with a group.
> 
> I really can only speak to the sx perspective. The so variant stuff is just supposing and we'd have to ask so variant people for help with it. @Lord Pixel you helped me learn about so variant the other day when you said you loved how you felt with a group that understood you. That was very helpful for understanding so.
> 
> I haven't been trying to understand the variants, though, I've been trying to express myself and my life as an sx first person among other sx people... which is what I thought this thread was for. But for you @mistakenforstranger I know you are sincerely interested in hearing people's experiences and so am I.


This caught my interest, so I'm gonna go on a tangent here.

This is how I largely experience So


* *





I think Fe might think you are "breaking" up the group dynamic. Not sure if SO is about maintaining a group dynamic as much as it is just aware that it exists, and So-dom is hyper aware. Being SO when I am in a room I know whose who and if I saw you paying more attention to one particular person over another I would just see "they are a clique". I see cliques all over, little groups in the bigger group. When I'm in a group, it really depends on the group, if it's a group of strangers that I don't know and I don't have to be around, I usually don't care to get to know anybody, since I'm an introvert, social anxiety still guides my behavior. But if I am in a group of people that are like minded to me or in a group of people that all share my interest, I do try and spread myself out amongst the group like I'm searching for some identity among them, it's like this picture right here.









My "identity" is found in the contrast of people. This person is more funny, I appear more like "the serious one" and they appear more like "the funny one". Or perhaps everyone is tall , I become "the short one". Like a boy band. My "place" in the group is found in the niche. Being aware of that you can begin to insert parts of your personality into a peg, and essentially choose youre role before it is chosen for you. In work environments it usually works well for me, working around a bunch of serious people there is a gap in the air, a gap that calls for a funny person. It feels good to be the source of laughter in the environment, like some kind of purpose is being fulfilled. Being type 4 and Fi dom augment how this is experienced as well. Being type four, there is a deep sense that something inside you is missing and that makes you not enough. When fulfilling some role to the environment around me it feels like NOTHING is missing anymore! I am all I need to be to fulfill this purpose to the "world" around me, I am enough! On top of that being Fi-dom, I can only fulfill things that are actual parts of my personality, if I am in an environment and I cannot fulfill any role with who I actually am authentically, than I get antisocial and feel not enough and like I don't belong where I'm at. And most of the time I just navigate groups feeling like I don't belong, or don't care enough about the group to "be" something for it. With my own family I was never social at all and they all think I am super antisocial. But folks at my church think I'm some life of the party. And those are the polars I usually operate on. People who know me well have seen both sides and it does make them scratch their head at first. 

Alot of the time it's like my SO is trying to find a sense of importance. Being plagued by questions like "Why am I important? Why am I here? What do I uniquely provide the world with? Why was *I* particularity born? Why do I matter? Why Iw as put on Earth" And I use the group to try and find that shit out. That's probably type 4 with the SO, but that's the drive, and when fulfilling some purpose in an environment I get a taste of that sensation of being one with some greater purpose, importance, reason for being alive or born. I imagine many people who say "I was BORN to do this." They might be expressing some SO in themselves. If we are all tools in a tool box, what is my function?




And this is how I experience So over Sx.

Because SX is second, my SO drive sees this group fulfillment as lacking something, it lacks closeness and substance. Being "on stage" does not get you friends backstage or after the show, everyone whose paid their ticket to see the show goes home with their loved ones, and SO goes home feeling empty. I remember distinctly when my SO was not fulfilling my SX needs. I had a group of co-workers. I saw the niche and spontaneously transformed into "the funny guy", made everyone laugh, most people looked at me and always thought I was up to some funny thing, I felt like I was some local comedian. Girls liked me, it felt great. I had only one "close" friend out of the co-workers. It was a seasonal job and the season was over, all the co-workers were saying goodbye to each other. And man it was like classic problems with So/Sx lol. I some workers were giving heartfelt hugs to each other, goodbyes, long goodbyes, but I got fucking...high fives and some funny hand shakes. Like, after all this time I did not grow close to anybody and it was slapping me in the face, nobody felt like I was close to them. I wanted somebody who cared enough about me to hug me goodbye, and that was what my SO antics was trying to inspire in folks, it was pretty much saying "Look, I matter!", but the people who mattered to each other at the end of the day didn't have to put on a damn show to get people to care about them. I felt empty and like I didn't really make any real friends, and it was weird it was like I was searching for someone to say goodbye to XD. Like I was looking around for someone to say "Hey you wanna get something to eat after this?" to. But I felt like I didn't matter enough to anyone to be able to make the request, like we weren't "friend" friends, we just worked together and I was funny. I didn't walk with anybody to our cars in the parking lot, like some other folks did, I walked by myself to my car feeling like a retired clown. That was a moment where I felt like my SX secretly wanted something and my SO tried to get it but completely missed it.


----------



## Llyralen

Lord Pixel said:


> This caught my interest, so I'm gonna go on a tangent here.
> 
> This is how I largely experience So
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think Fe might think you are "breaking" up the group dynamic. Not sure if SO is about maintaining a group dynamic as much as it is just aware that it exists, and So-dom is hyper aware. Being SO when I am in a room I know whose who and if I saw you paying more attention to one particular person over another I would just see "they are a clique". I see cliques all over, little groups in the bigger group. When I'm in a group, it really depends on the group, if it's a group of strangers that I don't know and I don't have to be around, I usually don't care to get to know anybody, since I'm an introvert, social anxiety still guides my behavior. But if I am in a group of people that are like minded to me or in a group of people that all share my interest, I do try and spread myself out amongst the group like I'm searching for some identity among them, it's like this picture right here.
> 
> View attachment 819697
> 
> 
> My "identity" is found in the contrast of people. This person is more funny, I appear more like "the serious one" and they appear more like "the funny one". Or perhaps everyone is tall , I become "the short one". Like a boy band. My "place" in the group is found in the niche. Being aware of that you can begin to insert parts of your personality into a peg, and essentially choose youre role before it is chosen for you. In work environments it usually works well for me, working around a bunch of serious people there is a gap in the air, a gap that calls for a funny person. It feels good to be the source of laughter in the environment, like some kind of purpose is being fulfilled. Being type 4 and Fi dom augment how this is experienced as well. Being type four, there is a deep sense that something inside you is missing and that makes you not enough. When fulfilling some role to the environment around me it feels like NOTHING is missing anymore! I am all I need to be to fulfill this purpose to the "world" around me, I am enough! On top of that being Fi-dom, I can only fulfill things that are actual parts of my personality, if I am in an environment and I cannot fulfill any role with who I actually am authentically, than I get antisocial and feel not enough and like I don't belong where I'm at. And most of the time I just navigate groups feeling like I don't belong, or don't care enough about the group to "be" something for it. With my own family I was never social at all and they all think I am super antisocial. But folks at my church think I'm some life of the party. And those are the polars I usually operate on. People who know me well have seen both sides and it does make them scratch their head at first.
> 
> Alot of the time it's like my SO is trying to find a sense of importance. Being plagued by questions like "Why am I important? Why am I here? What do I uniquely provide the world with? Why was *I* particularity born? Why do I matter? Why Iw as put on Earth" And I use the group to try and find that shit out. That's probably type 4 with the SO, but that's the drive, and when fulfilling some purpose in an environment I get a taste of that sensation of being one with some greater purpose, importance, reason for being alive or born. I imagine many people who say "I was BORN to do this." They might be expressing some SO in themselves. If we are all tools in a tool box, what is my function?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is how I experience So over Sx.
> 
> Because SX is second, my SO drive sees this group fulfillment as lacking something, it lacks closeness and substance. Being "on stage" does not get you friends backstage or after the show, everyone whose paid their ticket to see the show goes home with their loved ones, and SO goes home feeling empty. I remember distinctly when my SO was not fulfilling my SX needs. I had a group of co-workers. I saw the niche and spontaneously transformed into "the funny guy", made everyone laugh, most people looked at me and always thought I was up to some funny thing, I felt like I was some local comedian. Girls liked me, it felt great. I had only one "close" friend out of the co-workers. It was a seasonal job and the season was over, all the co-workers were saying goodbye to each other. And man it was like classic problems with So/Sx lol. I some workers were giving heartfelt hugs to each other, goodbyes, long goodbyes, but I got fucking...high fives and some funny hand shakes. Like, after all this time I did not grow close to anybody and it was slapping me in the face, nobody felt like I was close to them. I wanted somebody who cared enough about me to hug me goodbye, and that was what my SO antics was trying to inspire in folks, it was pretty much saying "Look, I matter!", but the people who mattered to each other at the end of the day didn't have to put on a damn show to get people to care about them. I felt empty and like I didn't really make any real friends, and it was weird it was like I was searching for someone to say goodbye to XD. Like I was looking around for someone to say "Hey you wanna get something to eat after this?" to. But I felt like I didn't matter enough to anyone to be able to make the request, like we weren't "friend" friends, we just worked together and I was funny. I didn't walk with anybody to our cars in the parking lot, like some other folks did, I walked by myself to my car feeling like a retired clown. That was a moment where I felt like my SX secretly wanted something and my SO tried to get it but completely missed it.


This was awesome! Thank you so much for writing this, Pixel. I think we've all been there... Where in a certain group we notice we wish there had been more bonding that actually other people got. /hugs , btw. You're awesome... and somehow I knew you were funny like my husband is. =_


----------



## Neokortex

An example of a cult leader.
(fist impression: Sx/So 2w1)


----------



## Azranaes

Whenever I ponder SX, this comes to mind as the best analogy






I am , without question, a deep roller.


----------



## Dare

Neokortex said:


> Then why are you sending me a picture of a she-skeleton giving a handjob to a he-skeleton?


I wonder if sx makes you as uncomfortable as your cheapening it for social currency makes me.

Perfect example of sx and soc operating at different depths.


----------



## Neokortex

Dare said:


> I wonder if sx makes you as uncomfortable as your cheapening it for social currency makes me.
> 
> Perfect example of sx and soc operating at different depths.


That's right, the joke (trivialization) was social, not Sx. I tend to do that with heart type Sx or otherwise tertiary heart type people because I devalue emotional reasoning when I sense it is not coming from... depths. As a single "romantic" E4 found it somewhat confusing/uncomfortable receiving a romantic picture from you who, concurrently, indicate to be already in a relationship.


----------



## Dare

@Neokortex That you could imagine this:


Dare said:


> One of the three enneagram instincts is passé now bc everyone's been doing it, eh? You don't look through soc eyes at all... Fyi:
> a) sx =/= sex
> b) While soc types have been known to sometimes do sx things for social currency, their intentions and internal experience is still likely very different
> View attachment 819545


to be some sort of come-on/flirting is, quite frankly, unbelievable.



Neokortex said:


> As a single "romantic" E4 found it somewhat confusing/uncomfortable receiving a romantic picture from you who, concurrently, indicate to be already in a relationship.


The picture was intended to bring home the point I was making. This is a sx thread where sx talk is expected.

Let's just put this down to sx blindness being uncomfortable by sx and vice versa and never speak again.

And people wonder why sx is never discussed in depth around here...


----------



## Neokortex

Azranaes said:


> Thank you!
> As an uptight 1, I do not destress easily.
> That post made me snort beer out of my nose.
> So fuck you for the burning sensation.
> Thank you for the release.


Didn't know the "paragon of virtue"-type drank... booze?


----------



## Azranaes

Dare said:


> @Neokortex That you could imagine this:
> 
> to be some sort of come-on/flirting is, quite frankly, unbelievable.


I don't know, is there a more intimate way to say you'd like to jump somebody's bones than, "I want to hold your decomposing corpse for all eternity?" 
Gives a whole new meaning to getting boned. 
:skeleton:



Neokortex said:


> Didn't know the "paragon of virtue"-type drank... booze?


You're mistaking your concept of virtue as universal. My imperatives aren't categorically Fe based. 



> Addictions
> 
> Excessive use of diets, vitamins, and cleansing techniques (fasts, diet pills, enemas). Under-eating for self-control: in extreme cases anorexia and bulimia. *Alcohol to relieve tension.*


from:
https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/type-1


----------



## Neokortex

Azranaes said:


> Addictions
> 
> Excessive use of diets, vitamins, and cleansing techniques (fasts, diet pills, enemas). Under-eating for self-control: in extreme cases anorexia and bulimia. *Alcohol to relieve tension.*
Click to expand...

WUT???!!



> You're mistaking your concept of virtue as universal. My imperatives *aren't categorically Fe based.*


... is that a... thing?? But Enneagram institute doesn't say that when not done in excess it's healthy!
So you are that Jonah Jameson type, right?

* *














> I don't know, is there a more intimate way to say you'd like to jump somebody's bones than, "I want to hold your decomposing corpse for all eternity?"
> Gives a whole new meaning to getting boned.
> :skeleton:


xDDDDD DDD


----------



## Dare

Azranaes said:


> I don't know, is there a more intimate way to say you'd like to jump somebody's bones than, "I want to hold your decomposing corpse for all eternity?"
> Gives a whole new meaning to getting boned.
> :skeleton:


Do you think it's funny if:
1. A woman can't speak to a man on topic without him assuming some 'hidden' meaning?
2. A soc type can't go deep on topic (is reactive to sx) yet sticks around in a sx thread in a disruptive/destructive way?
3. Uses humor in an attempt to block?
4. After his humor deflection doesn't work, looks into my account to see my relationship status to use this information in an attempt to shame me? (knowing that to a sx dominant this will sting bc it's my soft spot, even if the accusation is completely unfounded)
5. Uses other social manipulation techniques such as claiming to be a 'poor me romantic' (even through he'd just suggested infidelity to someone asking for help in their marriage).

I said I wanted to let this go ('let's never speak again'), so I see your poor taste joke here not only aiding the above, I see it as continuing where he/we had already stopped. Enough.


----------



## Azranaes

Neokortex said:


> WUT???!!
> 
> 
> ... is that a... thing?? But Enneagram institute doesn't say that when not done in excess it's healthy!


According to Beatrice Chestnut, sexual 1s aren't quite as austere with themselves. 
https://www.personalitycafe.com/typ...-sexual-ones-according-beatrice-chestnut.html

I actually have very strict values, they just aren't socially defined. Fi's ideals are subjective (we just... extrovert them onto everybody else :laughing: ). I see eye to eye with common society on very little. 
I can be indulgent with those things that don't breach my ethics. Sex addict, but my standards for who I'll have sex with are nigh prohibitively strict. Lush when drinking to destress, but moderate when drinking for pleasure. etc. 



> xDDDDD DDD


At least somebody appreciates my quirky wit. 




Dare said:


> Do you think it's funny if:
> 1. A woman can't speak to a man on topic without him assuming some 'hidden' meaning?
> 2. A soc type can't go deep on topic (is reactive to sx) yet sticks around in a sx thread in a disruptive/destructive way?
> 3. Uses humor in an attempt to block?
> 4. After his humor deflection doesn't work, looks into my account to see my relationship status to use this information in an attempt to shame me? (knowing that to a sx dominant this will sting bc it's my soft spot, even if the accusation is completely unfounded)
> 5. Uses other social manipulation techniques such as claiming to be a 'poor me romantic' (even through he'd just suggested infidelity to someone asking for help in their marriage).
> 
> I said I wanted to let this go ('let's never speak again'), so I see your poor taste joke here not only aiding the above, I see it as continuing where he/we had already stopped. Enough.


Do you think it's polite or decent to bite the head off a random passerby over unrelated drama between you and somebody else? In what way did I imply I find anything but lame puns funny?
I was replying only to what I replied to and only with what I replied with. Thinking that any of the rest of that applies to me is needless projection and scapegoating. If you don't appreciate my quirk, that's fine (although snapping at me about it wasn't really necessary), but taking out your issues with somebody else on me is just immature. Ironic that when somebody wants to get worked up into a tizzy, attempts at injecting levity by a third party make them angrier, even when the third party is no part of the hostility. That list should be taken to a moderator if you're having issues--there is nothing I can do for you about it. (and for what it's worth, if you just wanted to vent, I'd be much more accommodating and sympathetic if you bent my ear in more polite manner than redirecting it from a completely unrelated joke) 

And while none of your list of misplaced umbrage-justification has anything to do with me... I have wondered about #2, as sx threads seem to be mostly non-sxs criticizing sx doms.


----------



## Dare

Azranaes said:


> Do you think it's polite or decent to bite the head off a *random passerby* over *unrelated drama between you and somebody else?*


You quoted me, quoting what I said directly to the third party and then interjected yourself into the situation by replying to that. You made the exact same joke I had made clear was unwelcome (due to the flirting idea attached to it). You were no "random passerby" and you didn't just insert yourself into the drama, you prolonged/escalated it since the situation had already resolved itself.



> (and for what it's worth, if you just wanted to vent, I'd be much more accommodating and sympathetic if you bent my ear in more polite manner than redirecting it from a *completely unrelated joke*)


It was the same joke, directed at both the same picture and me.



> I have wondered about #2, as sx threads seem to be mostly non-sxs criticizing sx doms.


So it seems.


----------



## Azranaes

Dare said:


> You quoted me, quoting what I said directly to the third party and then interjected yourself into the situation by replying to that. You made the exact same joke I had made clear was unwelcome (due to the flirting idea attached to it). You were no "random passerby" and you didn't just insert yourself into the drama, you prolonged/escalated it since the situation had already resolved itself.
> 
> 
> It was the same joke, directed at both the same picture and me.
> 
> 
> So it seems.


I did not see a single pun or wordplay in Neokortex's joke post, so me poking fun at the fact he could possibly misinterpret the pic as flirtatious with language games was not just repeating the same any more than Stephen Colbert parrots alt-right conservative dogma.
Ironically, he took it jovially while you took offense at supportive satire. 
...
I really don't understand humans. 


And just to be pedantic, I did not insert myself into the drama. At all. I ignored the entire argument, and just made a punchline after-the-fact.
As you said, it was over. I cued the laughtrack afterward. In television, this would have relieved any tension and the show would have just flowed on. One of the characters looking at the audience and going "that's not funny!" turns this into an existential comedy, which I was not prepared for. 

*leaves eagle shaped hole in the fourth wall*


----------



## mistakenforstranger

Dare said:


> I said "authentic intimacy" rather than just 'authenticity'. They are different (real depth vs just real). But, playing along, of course there will be sp and soc types who want authenticity. There will be some soc types who will prefer to not have authenticity though. Some play let's-pretend games for status. Some will be the person who fits into whatever role is needed in the group. And some are even antisocial, to varying degrees (the manipulator vs something far worse). Sx is preoccupied with authenticity bc it's a stepping stone towards intimacy (won't work without it).


I don't deny that Social types can be that way, but I'm still not sure you can say sx is exclusively preoccupied with authenticity. Couldn't a sx enter into a relationship with someone under false pretenses too? I've known for sx-doms to almost need to be in a relationship, because without it they feel lacking in self-worth, which causes them to fall for people who are not right for them, and which they don't always receive the intimacy (not necessarily "authentic intimacy") they desire too. I mean, this is even complicated by a type, like a 3, who is foremost not even concerned with the idea of authenticity (Deceit is their passion), so what does sx being preoccupied with authenticity and/or authentic intimacy then look like in a sx-3? See Jay Gatsby, for an example.



> As you can see from the above quote from Llyralen, this intimacy is a stepping stone to her goal of connection (she described her marriage as 'her life'). It's normal for sx dominants to identify as (the merged) 'us'. A desire for intimacy is only part of the picture, just as intensity is too.


Yes, and I did acknowledge this earlier.



> *I do think there's some element to exposing oneself in order to truly connect/deepen that intimacy when it comes to sx*, but I also can't see other types like say a ESTJ sx-instinct, being like, "I really want my partner to be raw and vulnerable for me." Maybe they would be too, don't know, but I don't think they would use that language when discussing their sexual instinct.





> Yep, for that reason I prefer 'merging' but also, almost everyone bonds. People of all types bond with pets etc. Over the years my sp best friend somehow turned me into a part of his family and there are soc types out there who will give their all for their group (their life even), so you have to remember that merging/'oneness'/intimacy is only one type of meaningful, 'deep', authentic 'bond' possible.


I think bonding is only confusing because there are different types of bonding, but I still think it's silly for some people to claim one-on-one bonding is Social merely by the fact that it's "bonding". It depends on what one is bonding to (group vs one person) and/or how much (i.e. intensity of bond) that distinguishes Social from Sexual, like how @*ewdenore*'s post stated from before, and then it becomes clear that that type of bonding wouldn't be Sx at all:



> That bonding term is ambiguous. I think in Sx descriptions they're thinking of pair bonding in animals, where exactly 2 animals attach to each other and their whole lives organize around just the 2 of them.
> 
> 
> But there's another meaning as in eg "bonds of friendship" or "the familial bond". This is what the term usually makes me think of. It's a whole different thing. Social types love their bonding time.


At the same time, if you saw merely two people bonding, not even as a couple, you also wouldn't really say that's Social. I mean, I've been in conversations with Sexual types, who aren't romantically interested in me, but there is still this level of connection that attempts to be established by them. I think Marc Maron is a sx/so type, and you can see that somewhat here at 1:00:








> With words like merging they are less likely confused but there are still problems: people confuse unhealthy behaviors like enmeshment/codependency with 'merging' and I've seen a soc type claim that sx is nothing bc she merges _frequently_ (said with seemingly no awareness of the oxymoron, lol).


I tend to associate merging more with Enneagram Type 9, where I could easily see a Social 9 "merging" with the group, losing boundaries between self/other in a similar instance. Of course, the 9 is merging for different reasons than the sx-instinct merging with their desired other.



> The problem with this Fi/introvert line of questioning is you meet Fi using introverts who are still sx blind (my ISTJ father is one -- typical for ISTJs). Not all extroverts or high Fe users are soc instinct etc. Love that Ni trying to narrow it down though!


True. ISTJs in general all seem sx-blind. :tongue:



> I enjoy theorizing and trying to understand better but, with the instincts, I always come back to 1) it's very hard to fit billions of people into three neat boxes (so keep the definition fairly wide open) and 2) it's best to keep it simple; if given choice/free time do they tend to focus on self, their 'one' or the group? And what's 'payday' to them: survival/security, intimacy/becoming 'one' or group recognition/fulfillment.


I agree. What happens, though, when someone doesn't have their "one" or a group, and so they only have themselves to focus on? You can never escape yourself. In the final analysis, we're all essentially sp-doms! 

Sorry for bad-timing of this post.


----------



## ewdenore

mistakenforstranger said:


> I mean, this is even complicated by a type, like a 3, who is foremost not even concerned with the idea of authenticity (Deceit is their passion), so what does sx being preoccupied with authenticity and/or authentic intimacy then look like in a sx-3?


This is a good point. Somewhere I was reading about countertypes, where people say 1 of the instincts runs counter to the the general tendencies of each type. For 5 it's Sx. An Sx 5 is kind of a contradiction. There's an intense withdrawing and an intense outward push both there, pulling in different directions. So just in general I think there are situations where a person has strong drives that can work against each other. They probably bounce back and forth between them at different times. For 3 it seems to be Sp.

Some enneagram talk I was listening to said Hollywood is an Sx 3 culture. 1 thing people talk about Sx doing is inspiring attraction. Signaling an offer of intense connection. Combined with the 3 "showing off" tendency, this is a pretty good description of the Hollywood pattern. Appear attractive. Give people interesting experiences with concentrated intensity, things outside their normal everyday life.


----------



## Dare

Azranaes said:


> I did not see a single pun or wordplay in Neokortex's joke post, so me poking fun at the fact he could possibly misinterpret the pic as flirtatious with language games was not just repeating the same any more than Stephen Colbert parrots alt-right conservative dogma.
> Ironically, he took it jovially while you took offense at supportive satire.
> ...
> I really don't understand humans.
> 
> 
> And just to be pedantic, I did not insert myself into the drama. At all. I ignored the entire argument, and just made a punchline after-the-fact.
> As you said, it was over. I cued the laughtrack afterward. In television, this would have relieved any tension and the show would have just flowed on. One of the characters looking at the audience and going "that's not funny!" turns this into an existential comedy, which I was not prepared for.
> 
> *leaves eagle shaped hole in the fourth wall*


My perspective:
Neokortex claims I was making a pass at him with the picture.
You then come in (after the fact) in support of his idea that such a picture says "I want to jump your bones".

I'd apologize for missing the satire but then I'm not really a laugh on cue type, especially when this mini issue is part of a much larger issue (the one you addressed: non sx doms criticizing sx doms) that isn't going to go away with giggles.


----------



## Azranaes

mistakenforstranger said:


> At the same time, if you saw merely two people bonding, not even as a couple, you also wouldn't really say that's Social. I mean, I've been in conversations with Sexual types, who aren't romantically interested in me, but there is still this level of connection that attempts to be established by them. I think Marc Maron is a sx/so type, and you can see that somewhat here at 1:00:


Gonna chime in on this. Hopefully the fact it wasn't aimed at me isn't an issue. (sx/so--I take it that everybody is talking to each other, so personally and publicly)

But I agree with this. Even socially, my "group" consists of people I have a personal bond with. We have a personal, one on one dynamic, and we have a social dynamic consisting of multiple overlapping one on one dynamics. 

A friend once commented that our group would not be a group without me as the glue sealing everybody together, as they would not normally have formed that dynamic with each other. And whenever one of them introduced another friend into the social setting, whether they established this personal connection to me was what determined if they remained part of the group dynamic, regardless if they were part of an extended circle with other members. 
I'm the intersection in the Venn diagram. Got my fingers in all the pies. (and have no interest in eating only the crust) 

On the other hand, So exes were entirely social creatures, and it struck me as superficial. One had a bunch of groups she would group chat with on skype, and they did regular activities together, and yet she disliked it when one of these best friends wanted to talk to her one on one. She saw the social dynamic as strictly social, and disliked forming deeper connections. Likewise, I was the only person in her life who really knew anything about her. Important as her so dynamics were, there was no sx involved. 



> You can never escape yourself. In the final analysis, we're all essentially sp-doms!


I actually take the worst care of myself when I have nobody else to focus on. 
Inspiring and supporting others becomes my raison detritus, and the lack of that meaningful bond makes me feel incomplete. 


Huh. I was going to cite agreement with @ukulele about not even wanting a relationship if there is no deeper intimacy (or something to that effect) but it seems to be gone? 
(Was also going to say, good to see you haven't hermited; I haven't gotten around to making sushi rice yet.  )


----------



## Neokortex

Azranaes said:


> According to Beatrice Chestnut, sexual 1s aren't quite as austere with themselves. [...]
> I actually have very strict values, they just aren't socially defined. [...]
> I can be indulgent with those things that don't breach my ethics. Sex addict, but my standards for who I'll have sex with are nigh prohibitively strict. Lush when drinking to destress, but moderate when drinking for pleasure. etc.





leadintea said:


> They have a need to improve others, *but don't focus on being perfect themselves.*[...]This character feels entitled in the sense of possessing the mentality of a reformer or a zealot-one who knows how to live or do things better and so feels a right to assert their will over others. Like the mentality of a conqueror, *this approach can be rationalized* (and made virtuous through the rhetoric of their adherence to a higher moral code or calling.


Regarding sex, I second being "prohibitively strict:" I don't do hookups and one of the reasons is because I avoid clubs/discos/bars. Most people are So-dom, either way and beyond looks, I'm also very picky about their value system. But wrt alcohol, the way you phrase it "lush/moderate" reminds me of the age old adage we have over here: alcohol, when drank in moderation is a remedy... but when drank in excess... is _medicine_. I wonder if similar to the Chestnut quote, you also use post-hoc justification to explain (away) your actions as adhering to your "off-beat" and "very strict values." This explains a lot


Azranaes said:


> A friend once commented that our group would not be a group without me as the glue sealing everybody together, as they would not normally have formed that dynamic with each other.[...]
> I'm the intersection in the Venn diagram. Got my fingers in all the pies.[...]
> 
> I actually take the worst care of myself when I have nobody else to focus on.


Why didn't you start with this? Or by indicating in your signature or profile? *That YOU ARE AN SX/SO 1! OMYGAAWWWWD, GUYS!!!, we have an SP blind spot, booze guzzling, Zealot Extroverted Leader-type SX/SO here!!! Another Tony Robbins!! Brace yourselves, he's gonna turn the tides here sooner or later!!!!
*
XXDDDDDDD Well, unless he encounters (some more) resistance by some of our very dear, very polite Sx/So ladies... one I'm going to expose as such only a bit later...


----------



## mimesis

mistakenforstranger said:


> I
> I think bonding is only confusing because there are different types of bonding, but I still think it's silly for some people to claim one-on-one bonding is Social merely by the fact that it's "bonding". It depends on what one is bonding to (group vs one person) and/or how much (i.e. intensity of bond) that distinguishes Social from Sexual, like how @*ewdenore*'s post stated from before, and then it becomes clear that that type of bonding wouldn't be Sx at all:


For instance:



instinct wiki said:


> In some cases, imprinting attaches an offspring to its parent, which is a reproductive benefit to offspring survival. If an offspring has attachment to a parent, it is more likely to stay nearby under parental protection. Attached offspring are also more likely to learn from a parental figure when interacting closely.
> (Reproductive benefits are a driving force behind natural selection.)


----------



## angelfish

Lord Pixel said:


> I felt empty and like I didn't really make any real friends, and it was weird it was like I was searching for someone to say goodbye to XD. Like I was looking around for someone to say "Hey you wanna get something to eat after this?" to. But I felt like I didn't matter enough to anyone to be able to make the request, like we weren't "friend" friends, we just worked together and I was funny. I didn't walk with anybody to our cars in the parking lot, like some other folks did, I walked by myself to my car feeling like a retired clown.


Thank you for sharing so much... "a retired clown"... that's funny-sad-poignant... I think I understand that lonely-empty feeling... I get that when going separate ways from a person (or even place actually) I care deeply for... the tearing away hurts... 



mistakenforstranger said:


> I don't deny that Social types can be that way, but I'm still not sure you can say sx is exclusively preoccupied with authenticity. Couldn't a sx enter into a relationship with someone under false pretenses too? I've known for sx-doms to almost need to be in a relationship, because without it they feel lacking in self-worth, which causes them to fall for people who are not right for them, and which they don't always receive the intimacy (not necessarily "authentic intimacy") they desire too. I mean, this is even complicated by a type, like a 3, who is foremost not even concerned with the idea of authenticity (Deceit is their passion), so what does sx being preoccupied with authenticity and/or authentic intimacy then look like in a sx-3? See Jay Gatsby, for an example.


It occurs to me... there is a great line in the novel... 

_He knew that when he kissed this girl, and forever wed his unutterable visions to her perishable breath, his mind would never romp again like the mind of God. So he waited, listening for a moment longer to the tuning fork that had been struck upon a star. Then he kissed her. At his lips’ touch she blossomed for him like a flower and the incarnation was complete._

There's this driving point in the book that Gatsby's fervor for Daisy isn't really just love for Daisy. He binds all his own aspirations and self-worth to it, his obsession with class and self-betterment and his need to be a rising star. He makes Daisy the focal point of his desire but his own velocity is sort of all about him and his becoming. He chose a girl he couldn't have - not just because she was supposedly socially unattainable but because _she_ wasn't willing to leave her life for _him_ - and made his particular vision of her as his mate the center of his universe. No doubt that internally he felt deep desire and affection for Daisy, but he devoted himself to creating the illusion of a reality that never could or would exist. Everything about it was a facade except the intensity of his feeling... I think Gatsby wasn't really a healthy sx 3 at all unfortunately... he was "entranced", so to speak...


----------



## mistakenforstranger

angelfish said:


> Thank you for sharing so much... "a retired clown"... that's funny-sad-poignant... I think I understand that lonely-empty feeling... I get that when going separate ways from a person (or even place actually) I care deeply for... the tearing away hurts...
> 
> 
> 
> It occurs to me... there is a great line in the novel...
> 
> _He knew that when he kissed this girl, and forever wed his unutterable visions to her perishable breath, his mind would never romp again like the mind of God. So he waited, listening for a moment longer to the tuning fork that had been struck upon a star. Then he kissed her. At his lips’ touch she blossomed for him like a flower and the incarnation was complete._
> 
> There's this driving point in the book that Gatsby's fervor for Daisy isn't really just love for Daisy. He binds all his own aspirations and self-worth to it, his obsession with class and self-betterment and his need to be a rising star. He makes Daisy the focal point of his desire but his own velocity is sort of all about him and his becoming. He chose a girl he couldn't have - not just because she was supposedly socially unattainable but because _she_ wasn't willing to leave her life for _him_ - and made his particular vision of her as his mate the center of his universe. No doubt that internally he felt deep desire and affection for Daisy, but he devoted himself to creating the illusion of a reality that never could or would exist. Everything about it was a facade except the intensity of his feeling... I think Gatsby wasn't really a healthy sx 3 at all unfortunately... he was "entranced", so to speak...


Yeah, great quote, and I would also say Daisy’s attitude towards Gatsby is more Social being preoccupied with notions of class/status that Gatsby tries to live up to for her. Tom would also be Social, and Gatsby’s passionate nature stands in opposition to the both of them. I agree, it’s more of an obsessive, even destructive, desire for her (and her alone) that makes it so very sx.


----------



## ukulele

Azranaes said:


> but it seems to be gone?


I'm hermitting(?) after all, at least no one will make sushi out of me.

I need to poke my head out though or I won't sleep. I'm curious @mistakenforstranger, mistaken for stranger by your own friends?


----------



## mistakenforstranger

ukulele said:


> I'm hermitting(?) after all, at least no one will make sushi out of me.
> 
> I need to poke my head out though or I won't sleep. I'm curious @*mistakenforstranger*, mistaken for stranger by your own friends?


Haha, yeah my username is from The National song!


----------



## Neokortex

mistakenforstranger said:


> Haha, yeah my username is from The National song!


And your avatar from _A Single Man_ (2009)?


----------



## Eren Jaegerbomb

Neokortex said:


> The more criticism I read about the millenials and the "new PC," the less I start to believe in instincts theory. It's as if the new ethics of the zeitgeist has started to shape the image of what an "ethical" "INFP" should look like. In your case, @Creator 22 I sense a mismatch between religiosity and 4w5. Initially, I've also thought I was a 4w5. But I was underestimating the sway of these cultural-group-image preferences. I wanted to look like a real artsy person. But then I had to realize, the most I am a 4 is at home, with my abusive parents. Outside, my w3 is "the king." And if the outside culture values art less, then 4w3, despite its self-pitying aspect, will still yield to whatever is considered "valuable," worthy. It just happens that we have this "sensitive," "fragile," "secretly wise" introvert stereotype now that our consumer egoism and woundedness from parental condescension-abuse so much likes to bask in online.
> 
> So when it comes to instincts, what is considered "intense" or downright "harassing" now, such as catcalling, may have been more accepted earlier. Before 2013 I remember women, here in Eastern Europe being a lot more open and I remember being annoyed by the straightforwardness of some. I was the one, then, refusing dates and dreaming of better girlfriends, whereas I am the one now feeling odd for people stigmatizing my unsolicited accosts. There may be nothing wrong with me at all, except for being brainwashed by all these labels.
> 
> Are you sure, then, you're not a 2, instead of a 4? Are you sure that it's not the current state dating culture is in that your problem is, instead of a certain "instinctual variant?" It's quite normal to be craving intimacy in these times of social alienation.


I've always been quite a sexual person, but you do have a point that modern culture makes people more isolated and alienated than ever because of the minimal physical interactions we have now. And personally, I hate political correctness.

And I agree sometimes we prefer to 'look like' something rather than just be.

Because of my conflicting beliefs, I believe in God-.as a spiritual being, but then I'm also starting to think more about the 'new age' definition of God.... anyway. I haven't done anything "immoral" because I am afraid of the consequences, ultimately, and I don't want to be hypocritical.


----------



## ukulele

mistakenforstranger said:


> Haha, yeah my username is from The National song!


Now I can sleep. Each time I see you here I can't help but go "...when you pass them at night
under the silvery, silvery Citibank lights(...) Surprise, surprise, they wouldn't wanna watch tralalala" in my head. 

Anyway, great choice!
-------------------------------------------

Spring is coming! This year Matt will be easy to find! uffer:


----------



## Neokortex

Creator 22 said:


> I've always been quite a sexual person, but you do have a point that modern culture makes people more isolated and alienated than ever because of the minimal physical interactions we have now. And personally, I hate political correctness.
> 
> And I agree sometimes we prefer to 'look like' something rather than just be.
> 
> Because of my conflicting beliefs, I believe in God-.as a spiritual being, but then I'm also starting to think more about the 'new age' definition of God.... anyway. I haven't done anything "immoral" because I am afraid of the consequences, ultimately, and I don't want to be hypocritical.


There ought to be conflict... belief in one God but disbelief in hookups. Do you think your beliefs reinforce a "one relationship at a time with high fidelity" mindset? Does your Ne ever wander away, looking for "alternatives?"

I mean it's possible for a 4 to consider the possibility of an overarching entity "God" or "higher consciousness," even to accept it but that doesn't interfere with its selfish indulgence, does it? The tranquility of my Fi is the highest priority, as an "INFP," so I'm not acting on fantasies but I don't condemn threesomes or whathaveyou, either. So, then, what do you mean by:


> Having SX on the top of the stack as a religious INFP IS S***.


? Does you religiosity hinder you in any way in expressing your sexual side?


----------



## Azranaes

Neokortex said:


> Regarding sex, I second being "prohibitively strict:" I don't do hookups and one of the reasons is because I avoid clubs/discos/bars.


I respect this. I value humanity, and as such differentiate man from beast based on whether one is ruled by instinct or reason. Unearned hedonism is the mark of an animal. Or as Nietzsche said, "Do what you will, but first be such as _can_ will."
What makes me more stereotypical as a 1 is that I'm the Gom Jabbar that differentiates humans from beasts. (Dune reference) As well as the butcher and the cook. :smug:





> They have a need to improve others, but don't focus on being perfect themselves.


Despite what it says, I am very hard on myself, and beat the fuck out of myself over mistakes and imperfections. I'm just prone to nihilistic bouts where, without a good motivator, I kinda crash and burn in the realization Darwinism punishes the righteous, and it's always the cheaters who win. 
Rather than adapting to this, it puts me into a mindset of martyrdom--better to suffer for being true to my ideals than contribute to the rot. 
"It's a dog eat dog world, but I'd rather die a human than live on all fours." 






I can get out of these funks slowly over a recovery period, or snap out of it all at once by somebody else needing my more stable existential mindset. 

(an example was the time I was going through a rough breakup, and a friend was very considerate and consoling, but it served more as distraction than help... until she popped up in a depression one day, talking about suicide, and suddenly I did an on-the-spot 180 into life affirming motivation, finding renewed purpose in my own life by helping her to recognize her own) 



> alcohol, when drank in moderation is a remedy... but when drank in excess... is medicine."


I have to remember this one! 
In truth, when drank for a medicine, it causes more trouble than it relieves, but that's why I only indulge that much when in nihilistic bouts, and have already said, "fuck it." When at rock bottom--dig deeper. 
While I'll go through a case of beer in a matter of days when anxious or depressed, under normal conditions, a bottle of absinthe will last me a month. Also, that indulgence is focused in more productive liquid consumption when focusing on improvement/goals--I imbibe a lot of coffee when writing, and a lot of protein when lifting. 



> Why didn't you start with this? Or by indicating in your signature or profile? That YOU ARE AN SX/SO 1! OMYGAAWWWWD, GUYS!!!, we have an SP blind spot, booze guzzling, Zealot Extroverted Leader-type SX/SO here!!! Another Tony Robbins!! Brace yourselves, he's gonna turn the tides here sooner or later!!!!


lol. Everybody wants to ride the unicorn. I can take anybody to paradise, it just takes a talented whisperer who knows how to groom my coat and polish my horn. 



@ukulele
I don't have much experience preparing sushi, so if you're a puffer fish, odds are neither of us would survive me eating you.  (The INTJ female--A lethal delicacy ) 

But that's what I meant contrasting INFP hermiting. INTJs tend to be more consistent and reliable, so even when withdrawing to recharge it's not usually a full blown random and permanent disappearance like I've come to expect from INFPs. 

but on that note, I'm compelled to express the observation that in over 100 posts, I have had NO drama hanging around the INTJ forum. At all. Excepting a mild misunderstanding with Lily, which was quickly resolved and moved on from, so not even really drama.
Every-fucking-time I dare to post in an SX thread, it results in people arrogantly bossing me around, telling me what I'm permitted to say, or blowing up over trivial misunderstandings. 
Obviously, INTJ forum is a hermitage itself--a communal retreat, or reclusive monastery, for the rational.


----------



## Eren Jaegerbomb

Neokortex said:


> There ought to be conflict... belief in one God but disbelief in hookups. Do you think your beliefs reinforce a "one relationship at a time with high fidelity" mindset? Does your Ne ever wander away, looking for "alternatives?"
> 
> I mean it's possible for a 4 to consider the possibility of an overarching entity "God" or "higher consciousness," even to accept it but that doesn't interfere with its selfish indulgence, does it? The tranquility of my Fi is the highest priority, as an "INFP," so I'm not acting on fantasies but I don't condemn threesomes or whathaveyou, either. So, then, what do you mean by:
> ? Does you religiosity hinder you in any way in expressing your sexual side?


In short yes. But I don't want to abase myself to the level of an animal, going by instinct. Of course there's still other things I do by instinct, but to become more than that is what I want to be.


----------



## Eren Jaegerbomb

Azranaes said:


> I respect this. I value humanity, and as such differentiate man from beast based on whether one is ruled by instinct or reason. Unearned hedonism is the mark of an animal. Or as Nietzsche said, "Do what you will, but first be such as _can_ will."
> What makes me more stereotypical as a 1 is that I'm the Gom Jabbar that differentiates humans from beasts. (Dune reference) As well as the butcher and the cook. :smug:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite what it says, I am very hard on myself, and beat the fuck out of myself over mistakes and imperfections. I'm just prone to nihilistic bouts where, without a good motivator, I kinda crash and burn in the realization Darwinism punishes the righteous, and it's always the cheaters who win.
> Rather than adapting to this, it puts me into a mindset of martyrdom--better to suffer for being true to my ideals than contribute to the rot.
> "It's a dog eat dog world, but I'd rather die a human than live on all fours."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can get out of these funks slowly over a recovery period, or snap out of it all at once by somebody else needing my more stable existential mindset.
> 
> (an example was the time I was going through a rough breakup, and a friend was very considerate and consoling, but it served more as distraction than help... until she popped up in a depression one day, talking about suicide, and suddenly I did an on-the-spot 180 into life affirming motivation, finding renewed purpose in my own life by helping her to recognize her own)
> 
> 
> 
> I have to remember this one!
> In truth, when drank for a medicine, it causes more trouble than it relieves, but that's why I only indulge that much when in nihilistic bouts, and have already said, "fuck it." When at rock bottom--dig deeper.
> While I'll go through a case of beer in a matter of days when anxious or depressed, under normal conditions, a bottle of absinthe will last me a month. Also, that indulgence is focused in more productive liquid consumption when focusing on improvement/goals--I imbibe a lot of coffee when writing, and a lot of protein when lifting.
> 
> 
> 
> lol. Everybody wants to ride the unicorn. I can take anybody to paradise, it just takes a talented whisperer who knows how to groom my coat and polish my horn.
> 
> 
> 
> @ukulele
> I don't have much experience preparing sushi, so if you're a puffer fish, odds are neither of us would survive me eating you.  (The INTJ female--A lethal delicacy )
> 
> But that's what I meant contrasting INFP hermiting. INTJs tend to be more consistent and reliable, so even when withdrawing to recharge it's not usually a full blown random and permanent disappearance like I've come to expect from INFPs.
> 
> but on that note, I'm compelled to express the observation that in over 100 posts, I have had NO drama hanging around the INTJ forum. At all. Excepting a mild misunderstanding with Lily, which was quickly resolved and moved on from, so not even really drama.
> Every-fucking-time I dare to post in an SX thread, it results in people arrogantly bossing me around, telling me what I'm permitted to say, or blowing up over trivial misunderstandings.
> Obviously, INTJ forum is a hermitage itself--a communal retreat, or reclusive monastery, for the rational.


Are you INFJ?


----------



## Azranaes

Creator 22 said:


> Are you INFJ?


NTJ. 
I jump the fence back and forth from the E/I E/I Oh! yards. 
Currently I prefer, by far, to identify as INTJ, as I actually get along with INTJs and understand what and how they think. Most ENTJs I've encounter seem more like ESTJ narcissists than anything I can relate to. A friend justified ENTJ once by saying that 1s have stronger Fi, and that socionics accounts for LIE-Ni, but if I function like an Ni dom with strong Fi... there's a type for that in Myers-Briggs too. INTJ. 

I actually don't relate to INFJs, and I typically get along with them at first, but the Fe and Ti generate schism very fast, and it only takes a single disagreement (which I usually see as completely nonsensical) to break down communication into door-slamming frustration. An INTP friend made a comment a while back that INFJs tend to either hit or miss, and when they hit it's brilliant, but when they miss it's painful to even look at, and they cannot be convinced their thought process is wrong. When I related this to an INTJ friend who is married to an INFJ he laughed and said, "That definitely fits her."


----------



## Eren Jaegerbomb

Azranaes said:


> NTJ.
> I jump the fence back and forth from the E/I E/I Oh! yards.
> Currently I prefer, by far, to identify as INTJ, as I actually get along with INTJs and understand what and how they think. Most ENTJs I've encounter seem more like ESTJ narcissists than anything I can relate to. A friend justified ENTJ once by saying that 1s have stronger Fi, and that socionics accounts for LIE-Ni, but if I function like an Ni dom with strong Fi... there's a type for that in Myers-Briggs too. INTJ.
> 
> I actually don't relate to INFJs, and I typically get along with them at first, but the Fe and Ti generate schism very fast, and it only takes a single disagreement (which I usually see as completely nonsensical) to break down communication into door-slamming frustration. An INTP friend made a comment a while back that INFJs tend to either hit or miss, and when they hit it's brilliant, but when they miss it's painful to even look at, and they cannot be convinced their thought process is wrong. When I related this to an INTJ friend who is married to an INFJ he laughed and said, "That definitely fits her."


I see.

I hate it when INFJs just door-slam and don't want to discuss things in a 'mature' fashion... so frustrating, especially if its important for them to know.


----------



## ukulele

Azranaes said:


> I don't have much experience preparing sushi, so if you're a puffer fish, odds are neither of us would survive me eating you.  (The INTJ female--A lethal delicacy )


Meaning, I'm the best puffer fish sushi one can eat cause it will be their last one uffer: 
Oddly satisfying. 



> But that's what I meant contrasting INFP hermiting. INTJs tend to be more consistent and reliable, so even when withdrawing to recharge it's not usually a full blown random and permanent disappearance like I've come to expect from INFPs.


INFPs hermit? Those I knew(SO instinct) did disappear but rather due to finding a better crowd. That being said... I'm e4. I'm as consistent as my mood is.



> but on that note, I'm compelled to express the observation that in over 100 posts, I have had NO drama hanging around the INTJ forum. At all. Excepting a mild misunderstanding with Lily, which was quickly resolved and moved on from, so not even really drama.
> Every-fucking-time I dare to post in an SX thread, it results in people arrogantly bossing me around, telling me what I'm permitted to say, or blowing up over trivial misunderstandings.
> Obviously, INTJ forum is a hermitage itself--a communal retreat, or reclusive monastery, for the rational.


YOU MUST NOT LOSE OUR HOPE! I have faith in Lily. She's yet to show you your place. h:
If you refer to @Dare, she's a lovely, strong lioness who doesn't fuck around. Neokortex begged for it, you got yourself caught in the crossfire. 
FWIW it's wise to treat lightly when you attempt to make such jokes directed at SX- dom and INTJ female. It's a lethal delicacy, as you said yourself. It will backfire.


----------



## angelfish

mistakenforstranger said:


> Yeah, great quote, and I would also say Daisy’s attitude towards Gatsby is more Social being preoccupied with notions of class/status that Gatsby tries to live up to for her. Tom would also be Social, and Gatsby’s passionate nature stands in opposition to the both of them. I agree, it’s more of an obsessive, even destructive, desire for her (and her alone) that makes it so very sx.


Yes I was thinking about that as well. Probably Daisy so/sx and Tom so/sp... In Daisy we see the little sparks of connection and a bit of yearning/longing with Gatsby but she retreats to the comfort of her carved-out life role as a high-society daughter, wife, mother, socialite. She's a bit fragile, effervescent and delightful at times, and starry-eyed at Gatsby's demonstrations of affection, but with Gatsby gone away during the war, she slipped back into her social world. Tom doesn't seem like he really has sx struggles, seems like maybe so/sp e8 - control issues - having used to be a football star and that being the highest point in his life, being really deeply worried about white people becoming victimized, hitting Myrtle when she doesn't listen to him...



Azranaes said:


> I respect this. I value humanity, and as such differentiate man from beast based on whether one is ruled by instinct or reason. Unearned hedonism is the mark of an animal. Or as Nietzsche said, "Do what you will, but first be such as _can_ will."
> What makes me more stereotypical as a 1 is that I'm the Gom Jabbar that differentiates humans from beasts. (Dune reference) As well as the butcher and the cook. :smug:


Dune reference! Here's a bit of a poem you might appreciate as a thanks for your Dune reference (did you hear, btw, that there is a movie due out next year, I think?). It's from In Memoriam A.H.H. by Tennyson. Long, beautiful poem, if you're not familiar, but in any case, your wording reminded me of this part:

_Contemplate all this work of Time, 
The giant labouring in his youth; 
Nor dream of human love and truth, 
As dying Nature's earth and lime;

But trust that those we call the dead
Are breathers of an ampler day
For ever nobler ends. They say,
The solid earth whereon we tread

In tracts of fluent heat began, 
And grew to seeming-random forms, 
The seeming prey of cyclic storms, 
Till at the last arose the man;

Who throve and branch'd from clime to clime,
The herald of a higher race,
And of himself in higher place,
If so he type this work of time

Within himself, from more to more;
Or, crown'd with attributes of woe
Like glories, move his course, and show
That life is not as idle ore,

But iron dug from central gloom,
And heated hot with burning fears,
And dipt in baths of hissing tears,
And batter'd with the shocks of doom

To shape and use. Arise and fly
The reeling Faun, the sensual feast;
Move upward, working out the beast,
And let the ape and tiger die._

I do feel kind of bad for the apes and tigers who are valuable in and of themselves, but it's metaphorical language and I need to let it go. I could probably use a better dose of e1... I think I'm lacking... me and my animal side are thick as thieves -_-


----------



## Azranaes

Creator 22 said:


> I see.
> 
> I hate it when INFJs just door-slam and don't want to discuss things in a 'mature' fashion... so frustrating, especially if its important for them to know.


To be fair, I'm as likely to be the one cutting short once I realize I'm talking to a wall who doesn't even want to understand me. But when it's just Ti being silly, I can usually just throw my hands up without any harsh words. When I'm being condemned by Fe for not fitting into their behavioral expectations, I tend to react. An example was an INFJ criticizing me for talking to somebody who had been rude to her, saying that I couldn't expect to be her friend when I was friendly to her enemy. My reaction was along the lines of, "WTF? I don't even know you, lady, and you think you can tell me who I'm allowed to talk to? Fuck off." 



ukulele said:


> Meaning, I'm the best puffer fish sushi one can eat cause it will be their last one uffer:
> Oddly satisfying.


I'm now going to associate you more with a praying mantis than a pufferfish. :laughing:
Much like the sushi, I'm sure it's worth it. h:




> YOU MUST NOT LOSE OUR HOPE! I have faith in Lily. She's yet to show you your place.
> If you refer to @Dare , she's a lovely, strong lioness who doesn't fuck around. Neokortex begged for it, you got yourself caught in the crossfire.


Guess I just haven't caught Lily on a bad day yet, haha. Hopefully I can stay under the radar. The 9 wing prefers peace and smooth sailing... but the 1 refuses to back down from a fight. 
And no, I only categorize the Dare stuff with "blowing up over trivial misunderstandings." I have a lot of respect for her knowledge and input, so was genuinely surprised by her reaction. The "arrogantly bossing me around," and "telling me what I'm permitted to say," were others, and I wasn't just referring to the past few days. Misunderstandings are inevitable, and don't bother me so long as they're navigated with some degree of civility (I generally don't mind anything said to me, no matter how harsh, so long as it isn't intended to offend, and expect others to judge me accordingly--taking something unserious seriously is absurd, but sometimes the intent needs to be cleared up, especially when somebody is already emotional and on the lookout for negativity). 
Bullies, on the other hand, I have never tholed, and it especially gets my figurative goat when people use internet anonymity to act out in deliberately rude ways they wouldn't dare in "real life."


----------



## Azranaes

angelfish said:


> Yes I was thinking about that as well. Probably Daisy so/sx and Tom so/sp... In Daisy we see the little sparks of connection and a bit of yearning/longing with Gatsby but she retreats to the comfort of her carved-out life role as a high-society daughter, wife, mother, socialite. She's a bit fragile, effervescent and delightful at times, and starry-eyed at Gatsby's demonstrations of affection, but with Gatsby gone away during the war, she slipped back into her social world. Tom doesn't seem like he really has sx struggles, seems like maybe so/sp e8 - control issues - having used to be a football star and that being the highest point in his life, being really deeply worried about white people becoming victimized, hitting Myrtle when she doesn't listen to him...
> 
> 
> 
> Dune reference! Here's a bit of a poem you might appreciate as a thanks for your Dune reference (did you hear, btw, that there is a movie due out next year, I think?). It's from In Memoriam A.H.H. by Tennyson. Long, beautiful poem, if you're not familiar, but in any case, your wording reminded me of this part:
> 
> _Contemplate all this work of Time,
> The giant labouring in his youth;
> Nor dream of human love and truth,
> As dying Nature's earth and lime;
> 
> But trust that those we call the dead
> Are breathers of an ampler day
> For ever nobler ends. They say,
> The solid earth whereon we tread
> 
> In tracts of fluent heat began,
> And grew to seeming-random forms,
> The seeming prey of cyclic storms,
> Till at the last arose the man;
> 
> Who throve and branch'd from clime to clime,
> The herald of a higher race,
> And of himself in higher place,
> If so he type this work of time
> 
> Within himself, from more to more;
> Or, crown'd with attributes of woe
> Like glories, move his course, and show
> That life is not as idle ore,
> 
> But iron dug from central gloom,
> And heated hot with burning fears,
> And dipt in baths of hissing tears,
> And batter'd with the shocks of doom
> 
> To shape and use. Arise and fly
> The reeling Faun, the sensual feast;
> Move upward, working out the beast,
> And let the ape and tiger die._
> 
> I do feel kind of bad for the apes and tigers who are valuable in and of themselves, but it's metaphorical language and I need to let it go. I could probably use a better dose of e1... I think I'm lacking... me and my animal side are thick as thieves -_-


I like. 
And admittedly I've only read the first Dune as of yet, just this last summer. I plan to continue the series this year, when I'm done with William Gibson. I enjoy the scope, but I'm not the biggest fan of Herbert's style, which I find to be a bit--fitingly!--dry. I was turned onto the series by its inspiration of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, so on some level I was expecting something equivalent to Jordan's masterful style. 

And being in touch with your animal side is important too--as Jordan Peterson says, it's important to incorporate one's shadow. I'm always advising people not to suppress emotions or desires they don't want to face, as that just causes them to grow into something frightful in the dark before they do finally burst free like ravenous beasts down the road. It's a common motif across various myths; the inevitable cause of the apocalypse is cast out and sealed away where it can't do harm, but this very action is what creates the scenario for a self fulfilling prophecy. 
People who don't have animal impulses at all are just the opposite extreme and seem more like automatons than people. Humanity is a balancing act of acknowledging our bestial aspects but controlling whether and when to feed them.


----------



## Neokortex

Creator 22 said:


> In short yes. But I don't want to abase myself to the level of an animal, going by instinct. Of course there's still other things I do by instinct, but to become more than that is what I want to be.


Which question did you answer?


----------



## Dare

ukulele said:


> YOU MUST NOT LOSE OUR HOPE! I have faith in Lily. She's yet to show you your place. h:
> If you refer to @Dare, she's a lovely, strong lioness who doesn't fuck around. Neokortex begged for it, you got yourself caught in the crossfire.
> FWIW it's wise to treat lightly when you attempt to make such jokes directed at SX- dom and INTJ female. It's a lethal delicacy, as you said yourself. It will backfire.


:heart:

Edited bc I'm done talking about this


----------



## Euclid

Creator 22 said:


> Because of my conflicting beliefs, I believe in God-.as a spiritual being, but then I'm also starting to think more about the 'new age' definition of God.... anyway. I haven't done anything "immoral" because I am afraid of the consequences, ultimately, and I don't want to be hypocritical.


I hope for your soul's sake you are not persuaded by new age "spirituality".


----------



## Azranaes

Dare said:


> Don't worry about it. If he's smart he'll eventually connect the dots: Lily (sx blind, probably soc dom) ---> bullies sx dominants --->


Funny thing about that is my disagreement with her was over a joke I made (so many politically incorrect philosophies, yet it's always the sense of humor that offends) that INTJs are supposed to work out alone like the Red Dragon instead of going to a gym to be seen doing it, and she took issue with it as criticism, and defended the social aspects of having a gym community. 




> I saw Mmmm retired right after Lily had a go at her for talking about relationship stuff 'too much' (according to the law of Lily) recently and you were the only one who stood up to her (you're my superhero :heart. The passivity of INTJs never ceases to amaze me (I find this _irrational_).


You've already expressed that you find even touching on a disagreement by tangent makes one equally culpable. By this logic, going around getting involved in everything they disagree with would make them worse by proxy than the actual offenders, strictly by volume of offenses accessorized. Keep in mind the system is such that the aggravators are usually given a pass while those who oppose them get in trouble. 




> ENTJs would never tolerate a trouble-initiating bully in their midst.


I suggest you take a closer look at the ENTJ forum. Almost everybody who posts there without kissing up to a certain person comes under attack and is chased off. Take a look at the post history of most of the one-time constructive posters who have left, and at least 90% retired after coming under attack. 
The bully in question receives _praise_ for her behavior, and it is treated as proof of ENTJ dominance. 



> Sx blind soc doms reacting to sx doms and starting (anti) social stuff is a topic that should be discussed around here (especially since it happens literally right here). I'm not sure the tsunami of online social bullying/conforming can realistically be held back but while I'm still here, I will try to help keep the sx thread sx friendly. Perhaps I should start adding the insults I collect while attempting this to my signature


The problem with social justice warriors is they attack whenever they THINK they see guilt, and are often just creating the conflict themselves by blaming their cause for their hostile behavior against types they perceive as oppressors. Kinda what happened with me. Nietzsche referred to this as slave morality, and it equates to the mentality, "I'm the victim so it's not possible for me to victimize others, I'm the one who is wrongly judged for being different so it's righteous for me to pass judgement on those different from me." 
The conclusion to this philosophy is an inversion of roles, not a balancing of them. Refer to the ending of Animal Farm. 




> He's far more transparent. He isn't as savvy with timing and can't appeal to others in defense the way Lily can by crying "individualism" whenever caught out which appeals to & appeases her fear-feather-ruffling INTJ peers.


You realize what you're saying is that you're the only one who takes him seriously. :tongue:
Sun Tzu recommended knowing your opponent _and_ yourself. Before rallying to battle, perhaps you should ask yourself not why others don't feel so threatened by the things you do, but rather why you feel so threatened by people who think and function differently than you do. 
(if you feel attacked by this, it proves my point. I'm offering a different perspective, not assailing your own. You are free to examine it or not, but if you shuffle it into a "with me or against me" cabinet, it validates my point just as strongly as your umbrage against sx blinds is validated by your conflict with them) 



> In theory, having a 1 sx actively posting here should be a very positive thing. Of course, everyone's an individual.


Sorry I don't meet your standards. 
More sorry you don't realize how much your judgement aligns with exactly what you are criticizing in others. Take this a little bit further, and you'll be criticizing somebody's difference from you as harshly as you complain Lily does. 



> **It would be so nice if we could just talk about/better understand/support sx people here without any of the unnecessary bs**


Start by "being the change you want to see in the world."


----------



## Dare

Azranaes said:


> You've already expressed that you find even touching on a disagreement by tangent makes one equally culpable.


I wouldn't describe your direct/inserting yourself/at my expense/making the offender laugh/supporting negativity behavior as 'touching on' nor did I ever say I hold you "equally culpable". I was prepared to put it down to a misunderstanding between us. The fact that you keep at it though... (now attacking my reply to Ukulele which wasn't addressed to you). 

Note this is the second time you've attempted to use language to distance yourself from your own behavior (this time "touching on/tangent" last time you were using "passerby" etc). I hope you'll question why you do that.

If you think the label SJW should be applied to someone who attempted to defend herself, we have such different perceptions that communication will be futile. 



> The problem with social justice warriors is they attack whenever they THINK they see guilt, and are often just creating the conflict themselves by blaming their cause for their hostile behavior against types they perceive as oppressors. Kinda what happened with me.


If you feel victimized by me saying to you: "enough!" then I truly do feel sorry (for you).



> You realize what you're saying is that you're the only one who takes him seriously. :tongue:


Given you appealed to his humor and further communicated, I doubt that. The thing I take seriously are my personal boundaries.



> Before rallying to battle, perhaps you should ask yourself not why others don't feel so threatened by the things you do, but rather why you feel so threatened by people who think and function differently than you do.


You do realize I'm the one asking for tolerance here, right? Again it's curious that you described this sx thread as a place non sx criticize sx doms but here you are now claiming it's the reverse. Am I supposed to tolerate people who are intolerant? People can do whatever they like but I'm not always going to follow along/be passive (or respect their behavior). It's interesting I need to describe standards setting to a 1. 



> (if you feel attacked by this, it proves my point...


I'm amazed all this is easier for you than a 'sorry, didn't mean to be interpreted that way/get involved/offend' and let it go. At what point can this be considered projection (you feel attacked) and it's actually you who is the "hypersensitive" one? Then again, some people just like to argue. I don't. 



> Sorry I don't meet your standards.


Did I say that? I leave the door open in a positive way for moving forward and you interpret it negatively. 



> Start by "being the change you want to see in the world."


That's what I'm attempting to do, lol. It would be a lot easier for e5 me to simply withdraw and stay away from people. 

Reply if you feel the need but I'm done talking about this here.


----------



## mistakenforstranger

angelfish said:


> Yes I was thinking about that as well. Probably Daisy so/sx and Tom so/sp... In Daisy we see the little sparks of connection and a bit of yearning/longing with Gatsby but she retreats to the comfort of her carved-out life role as a high-society daughter, wife, mother, socialite. She's a bit fragile, effervescent and delightful at times, and starry-eyed at Gatsby's demonstrations of affection, but with Gatsby gone away during the war, she slipped back into her social world. Tom doesn't seem like he really has sx struggles, seems like maybe so/sp e8 - control issues - having used to be a football star and that being the highest point in his life, being really deeply worried about white people becoming victimized, hitting Myrtle when she doesn't listen to him...


That's how I type them too. :encouragement:


----------



## Azranaes

@Dare 
I'm not even going to respond to all the fallacies systematically, as it's clear you read into what I say however suits your worldview. Honestly, I thought you were letting it go after the first polite PM, but I keep coming to this thread to see you going on and on and on about it, forced to further defend what I'm REALLY saying against your bizarre interpretations. (yet when it's done to you it's bullying) The bipolar contrast is extremely jarring. (and if you want to say I was carrying it on; all I did was correct Ukulele that I was NOT referring to you as the drama I was complaining about, and summed up our contention as a simple cleared-up misunderstanding. I must now rescind this error) 

I am just flabbergasted you don't even recognize your own hypocrisies and the ironies inherent to your logic. When you're the one stirring drama you're just "a strong Te user separating wheat from chaff and pussies from cats" but anybody who doesn't walk on eggshells to avoid your zero tolerance everybody-is-out-to-get-SX-doms is abusing you. (by the way, I didn't respond to that part prior, because the bait was too obvious) Throw in this anti-social mentality that only the person you're talking to can reply, and it's wrong for the person you're talking ABOUT to take issue (why not keep such criticism about others to PM then?), and your MO becomes transparent. 
Hell, you're still harping on that a satirical gag aimed at making YOU laugh, in showing camaraderie that the contrary stance was laughably absurd, was an offense to you just because somebody you dislike found it humorous--despite me having explained the contrary multiple times across multiple mediums (which you pretended to understand, yet continue to lash out about after continually reviving the drama). 

You could use this thread as it's intended, and have fellow SXs bond over similarities instead of using it as a soapbox to harp on about how victimized you feel as an SX because nobody understands you, while scapegoating and criticizing other SXs who don't share that sense of martyrdom. You boast of a zero tolerance policy for anybody different from you but bitch about intolerance. Very solipsistic. 
As you yourself said, having an sx 1 here could be a good thing. Instead, look what you insist on making it. 
Ludicrous.


----------



## ukulele

Azranaes said:


> The problem with social justice warriors is they attack whenever they THINK they see guilt, and are often just creating the conflict themselves by blaming their cause for their hostile behavior against types they perceive as oppressors. Kinda what happened with me. Nietzsche referred to this as slave morality, and it equates to the mentality, "I'm the victim so it's not possible for me to victimize others, I'm the one who is wrongly judged for being different so it's righteous for me to pass judgement on those different from me."
> The conclusion to this philosophy is an inversion of roles, not a balancing of them. Refer to the ending of Animal Farm.





> you'll be criticizing somebody's difference from you as harshly as you complain Lily does.


It's not being social justice warrior or her crying buuhuuu poor-me-victim. She was protecting her boundaries (which you perhaps don't see as justified hence your outlook), she stated what is not ok and unwelcome in relation to her. 

In contrast on the INTJ subforum if you don't stay nice and passive on many occasions you'll be informed how you're wrong (about many silly things... I remember mentioning yoga was not approved) because "I say so"(which automatically becomes an excuse). You'll be constantly stepped on rather than informed not to be stepping on (what @Dare was doing).

Another thing is that you might not have enough information and you don't know a context(especially of her last message to me- which goes 2 years back or so) but you think you do and judge based on that. Maybe you know less than you think you do.
If you tell her to take a step back and look at herself, do it yourself. 

--------------------------------------------------

It's unrelated but it somehow reminded me of a situation from a few months back when a guy in a hostel was making "harmless" you-can-sleep-in-my-bed jokes. Later I expressed discomfort to my friend, and to him _I_ was out of line cause it's just "normal flirting". I do not care. It was unwelcome, I did not show in any way it was, the opposite. I'd not touch the guy with a stick, I won't hold it against him but I don't want to be told I should be ok with it and play along.


----------



## Eren Jaegerbomb

Euclid said:


> I hope for your soul's sake you are not persuaded by new age "spirituality".


Like, all the third eye stuff and all that?

Its vril related isn't it?


----------



## Azranaes

ukulele said:


> It's not being social justice warrior or her crying buuhuuu poor-me-victim. She was pretending her boundaries (which you perhaps don't see as justified hence your outlook), she stated what is not ok and unwelcome in relation to her.
> 
> In contrast on the INTJ subforum if you don't stay nice and passive on many occasions you'll be informed how you're wrong (about many silly things... I remember mentioning yoga was not approved) because "I say so"(which automatically becomes an excuse). You'll be constantly stepped on rather than informed not to be stepping on (what @Dare was doing).
> 
> Another thing is that you might not have enough information and you don't know a context but you think you do and judge based on that.


Honestly, I can be pretty sympathetic toward people's plights, as we all have different weakpoints. But I do NOT thole hypocrisy. I was very explicit with my own standards of behavior earlier in this thread (what is not okay and unwelcome to me), and was very clear in trying to clear up the misunderstanding, and apologized privately if my joke caused offense (I did not apologize for making it, but for the interpretation, as the intent had been on her side; she just chose to reverse it)--I was even led to believe I had succeeded in doing so. To me, this was a win. "Good, drama over. I already deal with enough, anyway. We can shake hands and move on." 
But then reading her admission that she could have been less rude, but she's entitled to acting rude because it winnows out the weak... fucking spouting the exact mentality she is getting so wound up over in others! 
The thing is, for me, she wants to be heard and understood, but has made a repeated display and production out of refusing to hear or understand me. As demonstrated by the fact she CONTINUES to put the first post that set her off in an anti-Dare box, and thus judging everything stemming from it accordingly, and completely refuses to reform that mindset no matter what is presented. Terribly narrowminded and judgemental. 
That is what reminds me of SJW psychology. 

And what you're not seeing is that in my perpetual appeals to reason, both public and private, was an attempt at reaching mutual respect that she simply refuses to yield. I already got an infraction because of somebody who was bossing me around telling me what I'm allowed to say--I passed judgement right off and expressed it, harshly. With her, I've held back the growing annoyance and incredulity at her erroneous interpretations of AGREEMENT because they come from somebody different from her instead of conformative, and thus must be contrary regardless of how many explanations are wasted trying to allay her ire. I have wasted a LOT of time and effort in trying to reach equilibrium here, because I was stupid enough to be optimistic it was possible. Instead, she just has preset notions she is taking out on me. 

I mean, look at this:


> Note this is the second time you've attempted to use language to distance yourself from your own behavior (this time "touching on/tangent" last time you were using "passerby" etc). I hope you'll question why you do that.


I used that language because that's ALL it was. She insists on the


> direct/inserting yourself/at my expense/making the offender laugh/supporting negativity behavior


so she can keep on about it, carrying her issue with somebody else onto me, all over a simple quip satirizing the concept that an image was flirting. 
Do you see how ludicrous that is? 
Somebody said that a picture of skeletons was flirting. I highlighted how absurd this was with a satirical comment. And she STILL will not let it go, twisting everything I say into a contrarian stance based entirely on her initial insecure assumption this was somehow an attack against her instead of a show of friendly comraderie. 




> It's unrelated but it somehow reminded me of a situation from a few months back when a guy in a hostel was making "harmless" you-can-sleep-in-my-bed jokes. Later I expressed discomfort to my friend, and to him _I_ was out of line cause it's just "normal flirting". I do not care. It was unwelcome, I did not show in any way it was, the opposite. I'd not touch the guy with a stick and I don't want to be told I should be ok with it and play along.


Probably should have shared this before I made jokes about eating you. :-/ 
Sorry if that trod on your ethics; I'm usually not sure where my own creepy flirting quips fall unless I feel it's being encouraged, but I am typically pretty clear it's not to be taken seriously, at least.  
But on the same token, if the guy had apologized and tried to smooth things over, would you have kept bringing it up over and over again, or bitching about him within ear shot, and then yelling at him for responding to comments made about him, deliberately reversing the situation? Or would you have acknowledged that he tried to make right by you and moved past it?


----------



## ukulele

Azranaes said:


> and was very clear in trying to clear up the misunderstanding, and apologized privately if my joke caused offense (I did not apologize for making it, but for the interpretation, as the intent had been on her side; she just chose to reverse it)--I was even led to believe I had succeeded in doing so. To me, this was a win. "Good, drama over. I already deal with enough, anyway. We can shake hands and move on."
> But then reading her admission that she could have been less rude, but she's entitled to acting rude because it winnows out the weak... fucking spouting the exact mentality she is getting so wound up over in others!





ukulele said:


> *Another thing is that you might not have enough information and you don't know a context(especially of her last message to me- which goes 2 years back or so) but you think you do and judge based on that.* Maybe you know less than you think you do.
> If you tell her to take a step back and look at herself, do it yourself.


See, I did not see what you did see. To me she actually *did* let go ("_Don't worry about it._ If he's smart he'll eventually connect the dots" = in my understanding she doesn't hold it against you, moreover she admits you're capable).
^and what I remember from her post it was the only time she referred to you. She's not passive aggressive to pass on hidden messages. She would be direct if she had more to say.

By this _"But then reading her admission that she could have been less rude, but she's entitled to acting rude because it winnows out the weak..."_ you're referring to this _"separating wheat from chaff and pussies from cats"_? 
You must mind* she was talking to me* in a certain context that you do not know. I do so she could have formulated her thoughts like this.
It's like I'd say *to her* "fucking SP/INTJ pussies", while to an outsider it will look offensive, she'll know what I'm referring to, how much love to that pussy I have and how it is not a value judgment.

Again, I do not see what you're seeing but I've known her and I've been reading her posts for over 2 years now... *by any chance* don't you think you might have misunderstood, assumed too much? 



> Probably should have shared this before I made jokes about eating you. :-/
> Sorry if that trod on your ethics; I'm usually not sure where my own creepy flirting quips fall unless I feel it's being encouraged, but I am typically pretty clear it's not to be taken seriously, at least.


I didn't mind it in that case. 
What I don't like is SX blind people being oblivious(it's a special, repulsive kind of obliviousness) when I'm not receptive at all (I guess in Dare case, she clearly said it's unwelcome) or telling me that I'm wrong to feel uncomfortable.



> But on the same token, if the guy had apologized and tried to smooth things over, would you have kept bringing it up over and over again, or bitching about him within ear shot, and then yelling at him for responding to comments made about him, deliberately reversing the situation? Or would you have acknowledged that he tried to make right by you and moved past it?


She's not doing it. Not in my eyes. I do think you misunderstood that post, thinking she's targeting you perhaps, she was not. You got triggered and YOU brought it up again.


----------



## Azranaes

@ukulele



> "Don't worry about it. If he's smart he'll eventually connect the dots"


You're forgetting, that was concerning Lily, not about her perpetual insistence I was inserting myself into an argument with Neokortex or that my jibe at the pic as flirting was somehow at her expense. Her issue with me was never about Lily, but about my satirical barb concerning that pic. You're mixing up the context of various things. 
Also, that my previous post replying to the one aimed at you, the only part I took as against me was what was about me. The rest I simply addressed for what it was, logically. She chose to overreact, ignore what I was actually saying (yet again) and take it back to her previous issues with me. 

And mind you, before that post,
This
https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43097963.html#post43097963

And this

https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43098109.html#post43098109

both came AFTER leading me to believe it was cleared up and she was over it. (and both of which demonstrate her HORRENDOUS comprehension, as it was even after I had explained my meaning) 

And then the post to you she has backpedaled over by deleting was her REALLY being over it, you think, because she only mentioned me at the beginning and end? 
Then why say this, again, afterward? 




> I wouldn't describe your direct/inserting yourself/at my expense/making the offender laugh/supporting negativity behavior as 'touching on' nor did I ever say I hold you "equally culpable". I was prepared to put it down to a misunderstanding between us. The fact that you keep at it though... (now attacking my reply to Ukulele which wasn't addressed to you).
> 
> Note this is the second time you've attempted to use language to distance yourself from your own behavior (this time "touching on/tangent" last time you were using "passerby" etc). I hope you'll question why you do that.
> 
> If you think the label SJW should be applied to someone who attempted to defend herself, we have such different perceptions that communication will be futile.


I think she's putting her grievances, real and imagined, with so many people into the blender as to not even know what complaint goes where, and you're assuming you can sort them out by taste. But that last post at me proves she's still spitting Azranaes seeds. So maybe she doesn't like that I called her out on her unhealthy approach to perceived differences by comparing to early 20s SJW tendencies, but she did not address the points I raised, at all--she took it BACK to her initial misunderstanding, proving that is STILL where her interpretation of everything I say is mired. 
You need to go back and reread my post without the assumption it was defensive or reactionary as hers are: 
https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43101403.html#post43101403
I simply related AGREEMENT over Lily trends, corrected a completely mistaken assumption about ENTJs, and correlated some of the previous things she'd said to the newest things she said for logical contrast, and gave a psychological contrast for measuring a healthier approach to feeling persecuted. 
The ONLY part that was me acting like the post was about me was the part I replied to personally (about a 1w9 being good for the thread "in theory") 
And she once again freaked out that I have no right to talk to her (on a public fucking forum) unless she addresses me first. 


I get that she's your friend, but you're ignoring a lot of really obvious patterns and recurring themes here. (okay, I admit I tend to assume other people share my knowledge of psychology and human behavior and pattern recognition, but you are clearly intelligent, and can at least acknowledge that repeating what she had claimed to accept as a misunderstanding multiple times, yet again, is an admission she did NOT accept it was a misunderstanding by continuing to push it as her initial incorrect understanding--if she was really over THAT particular issue, she would focus on the NEW things I said, instead of recycling them back into her initial complaint--I get the feeling that if I give a civil intellectual disagreement to something she says three years from now, in the hopes of an intellectual exchange of mutual benefit, she'll blurt out about how I attacked her by making a satirical pun about a skeleton picture three years ago so everything I say is based in that negative mentality of inserting myself as her enemy, or whatever the fuck archetype I'm supposed to be embodying to her psyche) 


And yeah, she could have been talking about a completely different 1w9 sx, but considering the things she's managed to read as me inserting myself into an argument I wasn't even aware of to gang up on her, she should have expected me to likewise read between the lines, especially when the first line of that post, that you quoted, was outright about me, and the last line was presumably about some OTHER 1w9. 

None of it was meant for me, which is why it was written only to you... in private, where nobody else would respond to it (since she obviously hates for people to respond to her). Just like this



> I wouldn't describe your direct/inserting yourself/at my expense/making the offender laugh/supporting negativity behavior as 'touching on' nor did I ever say I hold you "equally culpable". I was prepared to put it down to a misunderstanding between us. The fact that you keep at it though... (now attacking my reply to Ukulele which wasn't addressed to you).
> 
> Note this is the second time you've attempted to use language to distance yourself from your own behavior (this time "touching on/tangent" last time you were using "passerby" etc). I hope you'll question why you do that.


Was letting it go, and had nothing to do with me. 
Again... if she let it go, why is it still being discussed? 
If she disagrees with my opinion of how to go about handling persecution, why not address the topics I presented maturely and rationally, instead of turning it back into something that was supposed to have been resolved? 

Again, in summary, the post aimed at you, mentioning me twice, was not about me--the one she wrote afterward, TO me, rehashing a misunderstanding she had claimed to have gotten past, clearly was.
Elementary, my dear pufferfish.




EDIT:
And while I admit, this may have been a misreading of her tone, (this being the part where I actually demonstrated offense I assume you are talking about) namely on account of her STILL projecting hostile intention on to my posts that are not there, causing me to read the tone, 


> As you yourself said, having an sx 1 here could be a good thing. Instead, look what you insist on making it.
> Ludicrous.


Until she has written out many long posts and PMs trying to pacify me by explaining tirelessly what she was trying to say, while I continue to harp on about what she actually intended, there really isn't any fair cause to judge me, given precedence. If it's just a misunderstanding, she'll try at least as hard as I did to clear it up. Then we can judge if I'm 1/3 as stubborn or guilty of projection if I'm still as caught up on what I took as snide backhanded remark that a 1 SX could have been a good thing in theory as she is over me saying that wanting to hold somebody's decomposing corpse is romantic was in any conceivable universe an attack on her. (once again, at least what I said couldn't be taken seriously by anybody of a _stable_ mind)


----------



## ukulele

it's a misunderstanding... an unnecessary one.


----------



## Dare

Azranaes said:


> This
> https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43097963.html#post43097963
> 
> And this
> 
> https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43098109.html#post43098109
> 
> both came AFTER leading me to believe it was cleared up and she was over it. (and both of which demonstrate her HORRENDOUS comprehension, as it was even after I had explained my meaning)


This is factually incorrect. 

The first post you quoted here was posted at 11.04. After posting I then checked my messages, read yours and replied at 11.12 saying let's just put it down to a misunderstanding. At 12.37 you wrote a post in this thread in reply to my post. The second post you quoted (above) was my reply to that post which was just a succinct 'here WAS my perspective' which was my way of explaining what I saw/how the misunderstanding happened (to me this was a wrapping up/put it in the past thing -- I genuinely believed it was over). As you know we talked about a new topic entirely in PM after that. It seemed over. Great.

So what went wrong? How did this get brought back up?

It was over 24 hours later when you wrote this to Ukulele:
"Every-fucking-time I dare to post in an SX thread, it results in people arrogantly bossing me around, telling me what I'm permitted to say, or blowing up over trivial misunderstandings."
Naturally she questioned whether that was aimed at me. You acknowledged part of it was. 

My response? I write to Ukulele telling her not to worry about it and even put a couple of references in there leading towards the positive. As I said to you before, I was 'leaving the door open' despite you going back on our understanding and agreement to leave it. In other words: you write something negative about me to Ukulele and I say to her don't worry about it/he still could be okay. But when I write something neutral/positive to Ukulele what do you do? You blow up and write me another negative post, only worse this time. Now I'm a ranting intolerant SJW on a soapbox victimizing everyone apparently.

I responded to you and indicated yet again that I want to drop this. I deleted my post to Ukulele and left a note to her saying the same (so she would know not to reply to me about it). But you just keep going... And now you want to have a creative timeline (when time stamps are clear) and basically accuse me of everything you're doing. IT WAS YOU WHO BROUGHT THIS BACK UP. IT WAS YOU WHO FAILED TO KEEP TO OUR AGREEMENT.



> I get the feeling that if I give a civil intellectual disagreement to something she says three years from now, in the hopes of an intellectual exchange of mutual benefit, she'll blurt out about how I attacked her by making a satirical pun about a skeleton picture three years ago so everything I say is based in that negative mentality of inserting myself as her enemy


Getting basic facts about the past wrong wasn't enough eh? You had to imagine future worst case scenario based off your feelz too (I'm getting the distinct impression one of us is neurotic but it isn't who you think). I understand that you can't see that everything you say about me describes what you're doing and you have a negative bent. That's okay. 



> Again... if she let it go, why is it still being discussed?


At this point you just have to laugh. Why indeed. If you ever want to find out, you can PM me.

Lovely @ukulele thank you for having my back, but let it go. He has it set in his mind that I'm an "unstable" SJW type feeling persecuted who lacks perception of reality (he'll double down from here rather then open up). Me the PC victim lacking in IQ & mental health -- he has no idea how funny that is  Also I am kinda rude, sometimes, aren't I? I mean, I try   I'll go back to making sandwiches now <3


----------



## Azranaes

Oh jeezus crust. 

First off, didn't do a bunch of time checking. I just know that reading a PM saying everything's fine and you're over it followed immediately by reading an accusatory post brings back flashbacks of dating a BPD. What order you wrote them really doesn't matter, as it required a serious personality flip either way. 



> It was over 24 hours later when you wrote this to Ukulele:
> "Every-fucking-time I dare to post in an SX thread, it results in people arrogantly bossing me around, telling me what I'm permitted to say, or blowing up over trivial misunderstandings."
> Naturally she questioned whether that was aimed at me. You acknowledged part of it was.


Actually, I CORRECTED her that ONLY part of it COULD be attributed to you, but only mildly and so it was not what I was bitching about.
While I found your overreactions kinda out there, you didn't out right boss me around and try to censor me and then whine to a mod when I stood up to you, like certain others. I actually spoke of you respectfully, though you seemed not to catch it, just as you mistook my initial post as the EXACT opposite of what was intended. (again, how many times do I have to repeat this before you acknowledge it? I acknowledge what you take offense to, but you just fucking refuse to come down from your cloud)




> You blow up and write me another negative post, only worse this time. Now I'm a ranting intolerant SJW on a soapbox victimizing everyone apparently.


Skipping a step again. 
I made a nerdy one replying to the one with a ukulele quote, 

https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43101403.html#post43101403

and that received what I took as a heated reply, as it once again made accusations as to your initial misunderstanding

https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43101947.html#post43101947

That's now... what? The fifth time I've explained it? 

Only AFTER that did I become annoyed with a negative post, as 



> direct/inserting yourself/at my expense/making the offender laugh/supporting negativity behavior


Is far more "factually wrong" than whether your dichotomous PMs were two minutes before or after your posts. Especially after admitting that assumption was a misunderstanding. 

Let me say this more clearly: 
STOP MAKING FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND I WILL STOP REMONSTRATING THEM!!!!
I
AM 
Harsh. I am a mean fucking bastard, and I have explained that in full earlier in this thread to somebody who showed half an interest in understanding instead of projecting. But I will NOT, EVER stand for being told I am thinking or saying something I am not. 
Stop putting words and intentions into my mouth, and I'll stop beating you over the head with what I really think, while you solidify those thoughts the more you earn my judgement by ignoring them. 



> I understand that you can't see that everything you say about me describes what you're doing and you have a negative bent. That's okay.


Yeah. You made a harmless friendly joke, and I projected a fight with somebody else onto it, that I keep bringing up, and injecting into any attempt at a serious discussion on social issues. It's clearly a recurring problem and why there's so much contention between me and all the other INTJs here. 
Wait, no, it's just you. Huh. Can't imagine why you've had issues with other INTJs. Doesn't at all seem like you seek it out.  



Didn't you say you were going to stop? 
You clearly realize I'll keep responding so long as there's shit to correct, and we're just going to be here arguing specifics ad infinitum. 
...over a fucking skeleton pun....
REALLY!


----------



## Neokortex

This is getting ridiculous xDDD

You guys are like some cardboard cut out impossible cartoon figures
it's like you were some rich people who had all the time of the world for some inane first world problem hair splitting

This is just the stupid internet that makes people out there in the real world (us) talk less to each other, it prevents them to develop emotional intelligence and we behave online as we had already been "uploaded to the matrix," as if talking here had any relevance at all... i can't wait for the time when they shut down the internet


----------



## mimesis

Azranaes said:


> Oh jeezus crust.
> 
> First off, didn't do a bunch of time checking. I just know that reading a PM saying everything's fine and you're over it followed immediately by reading an accusatory post brings back flashbacks of dating a BPD. What order you wrote them really doesn't matter, as it required a serious personality flip either way.
> 
> 
> Actually, I CORRECTED her that ONLY part of it COULD be attributed to you, but only mildly and so it was not what I was bitching about.
> While I found your overreactions kinda out there, you didn't out right boss me around and try to censor me and then whine to a mod when I stood up to you, like certain others. I actually spoke of you respectfully, though you seemed not to catch it, just as you mistook my initial post as the EXACT opposite of what was intended. (again, how many times do I have to repeat this before you acknowledge it? I acknowledge what you take offense to, but you just fucking refuse to come down from your cloud)
> 
> 
> 
> Skipping a step again.
> I made a nerdy one replying to the one with a ukulele quote,
> 
> https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43101403.html#post43101403
> 
> and that received what I took as a heated reply, as it once again made accusations as to your initial misunderstanding
> 
> https://www.personalitycafe.com/enn...s-rages-purges-post43101947.html#post43101947
> 
> That's now... what? The fifth time I've explained it?
> 
> Only AFTER that did I become annoyed with a negative post, as
> 
> 
> Is far more "factually wrong" than whether your dichotomous PMs were two minutes before or after your posts. Especially after admitting that assumption was a misunderstanding.
> 
> Let me say this more clearly:
> STOP MAKING FALSE ACCUSATIONS AND I WILL STOP REMONSTRATING THEM!!!!
> I
> AM
> Harsh. I am a mean fucking bastard, and I have explained that in full earlier in this thread to somebody who showed half an interest in understanding instead of projecting. But I will NOT, EVER stand for being told I am thinking or saying something I am not.
> Stop putting words and intentions into my mouth, and I'll stop beating you over the head with what I really think, while you solidify those thoughts the more you earn my judgement by ignoring them.
> 
> 
> Yeah. You made a harmless friendly joke, and I projected a fight with somebody else onto it, that I keep bringing up, and injecting into any attempt at a serious discussion on social issues. It's clearly a recurring problem and why there's so much contention between me and all the other INTJs here.
> Wait, no, it's just you. Huh. Can't imagine why you've had issues with other INTJs. Doesn't at all seem like you seek it out.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't you say you were going to stop?
> You clearly realize I'll keep responding so long as there's shit to correct, and we're just going to be here arguing specifics ad infinitum.
> ...over a fucking skeleton pun....
> REALLY!


Seems to me you are on collision course dude, violating privacy (hence private message), which could be your second infraction in just one week. So, take a deep breathe and let it all go.


----------



## Azranaes

Neokortex said:


> This is getting ridiculous xDDD
> 
> You guys are like some cardboard cut out impossible cartoon figures
> it's like you were some rich people who had all the time of the world for some inane first world problem hair splitting
> 
> This is just the stupid internet that makes people out there in the real world (us) talk less to each other, it prevents them to develop emotional intelligence and we behave online as we had already been "uploaded to the matrix," as if talking here had any relevance at all... i can't wait for the time when they shut down the internet


Getting?
it was ridiculous before I showed up.
If I'd realized how much you'd pissed her off, I wouldn't have made the damn pun. But you left off, so I became the new target. 
Fucking madness. 
Seriously... I just want to stop being accused of things you said because I made a joke based on one of your posts and then replied to you afterward. 

I seriously thought she seemed smart and rational, but the more I try to reason, the crazier it gets. 
lol. it's hardwired into my system to try to appease BPDs. 
Suicide is the only real solution. 




mimesis said:


> Seems to me you are on collision course dude, violating privacy (hence private message), which could be your second infraction in just one week. So, take a deep breathe and let it all go.


I didn't quote anything from private messages, just mentioned there were some. Take a deep breath and don't take privacy policies so seriously that admitting you talked to somebody is against the rules.  
But don't worry, I don't plan to stick around. 
Suicidal solitude was better than reminding me why I was there in the first place.

'Tis funny, though. This place was helping before I was stupid enough to risk braving the wild. Put me right back where I was.


----------



## Dare

Azranaes said:


> First off, didn't do a bunch of time checking.


This in essence is your problem: you don't fact check.



> I just know that reading a PM saying everything's fine and you're over it followed immediately by reading an accusatory post brings back flashbacks of dating a BPD. What order you wrote them really doesn't matter, as it required a serious personality flip either way.


Is it so hard for you to imagine that I read a post of yours, reply accordingly then see you've PMed me a nice 'olive branch' message so I reply back in kind. I'm sure it's difficult having flashbacks of a BPD and hard for you not to conflate me with her. But I'm not her.



> Can't imagine why you've had issues with other INTJs. Doesn't at all seem like you seek it out.


It's only one INTJ I have a problem with (the same one others have the same problem with). I had that problem ~1.5 years ago (no problems since). And back then the few of us INTJs trying to shed light on the issue & obvious consequences had a certain ENTJ 1w9 sx/so standing right beside us, without being asked, just from having seen the problem for himself and was trying his best to enact positive change, as was in his nature to do.


----------



## Euclid

Creator 22 said:


> Like, all the third eye stuff and all that?
> 
> Its vril related isn't it?


The third eye is one of those ideas that are associated with new age. It's a bit hard to define what new age is but it's an amalgamation of various pagan religions, revolving around nature worship, and is I suspect is also the one world religion that the globalists are attempting to establish along with a one world government. BTW I don't want to derail this thread unnecessarily, so you can PM me in case you want to talk about it.


----------



## Neokortex

Damn, I'm still addicted to this forum... what a shame... this is my vodka but I doubt if I knew who all these people were in real life, I would still be hanging around.

Let's then pour some chill and positive vibes in here: Khashoggi's ship....

* *









* *




and a lesson on ethics... 
* *





* *




what DD?
* *





* *








[/video]


----------



## Agent Washintub

*Thread warning time, folks:
Do not drag members into a fray with which they have no part of.

If your presence on this site is predicated on constantly making passive aggressive, side long glances at other members, please, do us a courtesy and address them in PM, or not at all. Or, at the very least, have the balls to tag them and give them the option of at least standing up for themselves. Additionally, such acts of kindness would gladly open the doors for infractions of bullying other members.*


----------



## WickerDeer

Thread re-opened. Lets try this over again.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

:crazy:


----------



## Euclid

Home sweet home.


----------



## AnneM

Euclid said:


> Home sweet home.


I'm going to have to go pull my Beatrice Chestnut book off the shelf in order to be able to visualize an INTP 5 sx. I'm at a loss right now....

Can you describe for me how that works?


----------



## AnneM

Wow. A thread derail/fight from before my time. I had nothin' to do with THIS one!! Praise Jesus.


----------



## Aridela

MeltedSorbet said:


> Thread re-opened. Lets try this over again.


Great, so let me reiterate how much it sucks being an sx first. 

Every relationship I've ever had turns into a bloodbath sooner or later - they just can't take the intensity and I just can't take lukewarm people. Somehow I seem to only attract lukewarm people though (or be attracted to them?). 

Anyways, it'd be great to be able to turn it off once in a while. I'd like to be able to go about life with the calm serenity of an sp first 9. Ah that'd be great (for a little while, then I'd start loathing myself, slowly but surely).


----------



## Euclid

AnneM said:


> I'm going to have to go pull my Beatrice Chestnut book off the shelf in order to be able to visualize an INTP 5 sx. I'm at a loss right now....
> 
> Can you describe for me how that works?


You can read a few of my posts and see how that works.
It may go against the stereotype, but I'm a dead serious INTP that despise half assed lukewarm bullshit. Either you are in or you are out.
https://biblehub.com/matthew/5-37.htm

* *













7:00-15:00


----------



## ENFPurpleKitti

Being Sx first 2w1 seems to be creating some pain in me in some ways. It feels like nobody is as serious about relatiobships (any kind, nonromantic, nonsexual mostly) as I am. I used to be cool with it but I'm starting to have questions now.


----------



## Marvin the Dendroid

Aridela said:


> Anyways, it'd be great to be able to turn it off once in a while. I'd like to be able to go about life with the calm serenity of an sp first 9. Ah that'd be great (for a little while, then I'd start loathing myself, slowly but surely).


We could swap brains for a week. See how it goes.


----------



## Aridela

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> We could swap brains for a week. See how it goes.


I'm afraid such an experiment would be inhumane.

But if you insist.


----------



## Marvin the Dendroid

Aridela said:


> I'm afraid such an experiment would be inhumane.
> 
> But if you insist.


You'd be stoned and I'd get a peek at the world sans fog. Almost feels exciting.


----------



## Aridela

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> You'd be stoned and I'd get a peek at the world sans fog. Almost feels exciting.


Actually, that sounds enticing.


----------



## AnneM

@Aridela @Marvin the Dendroid

Marvin's brain in Aridela's body? And vice versa? 

You're going to need someone to monitor this experiment. 

I nominate: me.


----------



## Aridela

AnneM said:


> @Aridela @Marvin the Dendroid
> 
> Marvin's brain in Aridela's body? And vice versa?
> 
> You're going to need someone to monitor this experiment.
> 
> I nominate: me.


I smell something fishy here.


----------



## AnneM

Aridela said:


> I smell something fishy here.


Forgive me, it's the thought of your bosoms being able to give me tech support. (_delicious shiver_)


----------



## Aridela

AnneM said:


> Forgive me, it's the thought of your bosoms being able to give me tech support. (_delicious shiver_)


They're not even that big, but if it turns you on, who am I to object? 

Do paint me as an interesting character in your latest erotica, though.


----------



## AnneM

Aridela said:


> They're not even that big, but if it turns you on, who am I to object?


GASP! LIAR! 



> In my case it would be uncomfortable (my bosoms are on the large side), but I see nothing wrong with it.


--Aridela


----------



## Aridela

AnneM said:


> GASP! LIAR!
> 
> --Aridela


All things are relative @AnneM


----------



## AnneM

@Aridela


----------



## Marvin the Dendroid

Aridela said:


> Actually, that sounds enticing.


You'll have it easy, just make sure you don't need to work. A comfy couch, a laptop and a solid supply of durian, and off to neverpresentland you go. The only downside is, it's pretty much a timeless space and that week will zip by like a second.

Now I need to come up with something fun to do with SX... Hmm hmm hmmmmm... SX 1 no less. Jump naked from a drone into the Syntagma fountain while shouting "REPENT INFIDELS THE END IS NEAR!!!!!!!!!!!" maybe...


----------



## Aridela

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> You'll have it easy, just make sure you don't need to work. A comfy couch, a laptop and a solid supply of durian, and off to neverpresentland you go. The only downside is, it's pretty much a timeless space and that week will zip by like a second.


Sounds like a dream, where do I sign up. 



> Now I need to come up with something fun to do with SX... Hmm hmm hmmmmm... SX 1 no less. Jump naked from a drone into the Syntagma fountain while shouting "REPENT INFIDELS THE END IS NEAR!!!!!!!!!!!" maybe...


Nah, more like silently judging everyone, whilst simultaneously seeing all sides of the argument, and wanting to be close to everyone and have everyone be nice to each other (in harmony and perpetual bliss), but simultaneously loathing humanity and wanting to see the end of it.


* *




But I have been part of the largest national Communist party in my youth, so close.


----------



## Marvin the Dendroid

Aridela said:


> Sounds like a dream, where do I sign up.















> Nah, more like silently judging everyone, whilst simultaneously seeing all sides of the argument, and wanting to be close to everyone and have everyone be nice to each other (in harmony and perpetual bliss), but simultaneously loathing humanity and wanting to see the end of it.


That sounds surprisingly familiar. Maybe I'll finish them off for you while I'm high on SX and can actually get shit done.


----------



## AnneM

Marvin the Dendroid said:


> Now I need to come up with something fun to do with SX... Hmm hmm hmmmmm... SX 1 no less. Jump naked from a drone into the Syntagma fountain while shouting "REPENT INFIDELS THE END IS NEAR!!!!!!!!!!!" maybe...


THAT'S what you're going to do with your Sx? What a waste. You don't want to come kidnap me? In a flaming Porsche?


----------



## AnneM

@Aridela


> But I have been part of the largest national Communist party in my youth, so close.


:shocked: She's a RED!!!!


----------



## Aridela

AnneM said:


> THAT'S what you're going to do with your Sx? What a waste. You don't want to come kidnap me? In a flaming Porsche?


Who are we kidding here, you'd go willingly.


----------



## AnneM

Aridela said:


> Who are we kidding here, you'd go willingly.


Haven't you been listening to anything I say about myself??!!!! I'm a prisoner of my moral duty!! It WOULD take a kidnapping, because I am thoroughly weighted down by my sense of responsibility. I'm chained to the middle of the earth.


----------



## Aridela

AnneM said:


> Haven't you been listening to anything I say about myself??!!!! I'm a prisoner of my moral duty!! It WOULD take a kidnapping, because I am thoroughly weighted down by my sense of responsibility. I'm chained to the middle of the earth.


The lady doth protest too much, methinks :wink:


----------



## Firelily

This is so cool I’ll have to check in later


----------



## Marvin the Dendroid

AnneM said:


> THAT'S what you're going to do with your Sx? What a waste. You don't want to come kidnap me? In a flaming Porsche?


Apologies, I'm allergic to 'murrica.


----------



## Shrodingers drink

What’s with people dissing co-dependency? Co-dependency is heaven!
Mutual insecurity is the glue of a successful relationship!


----------



## Aridela

Shrodingers drink said:


> What’s with people dissing co-dependency? Co-dependency is heaven!
> Mutual insecurity is the glue of a successful relationship!


Perhaps we want the other to want us, not need us.


----------



## AnneM

Shrodingers drink said:


> What’s with people dissing co-dependency? Co-dependency is heaven!
> Mutual insecurity is the glue of a successful relationship!


YEAH, baby!!!


----------



## Shrodingers drink

Aridela said:


> Perhaps we want the other to want us, not need us.


Isn’t that called the honeymoon period?


----------



## Aridela

Shrodingers drink said:


> Isn’t that called the honeymoon period?


Usually yes, because people tend to project an image of themselves that their SO will find attractive. And that's just not sustainable in the long run. 

I give them hell early on, to separate the wheat from the chaff.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Shrodingers drink said:


> What’s with people dissing co-dependency? Co-dependency is heaven!
> Mutual insecurity is the glue of a successful relationship!


are you being irony


----------



## Euclid

Codependency is a widely misused term, as it originally was used to denote a type of relationship in which one enables the substance abuse of another, but has become to denote all sorts of things that have nothing to do with it including perfectly healthy things.


----------



## AnneM

Aridela said:


> I give them hell early on, to separate the wheat from the chaff.


She gives them hell like Satan, and separates the wheat from the chaff like Jesus. Evaluation: _Integrated._


----------



## Aridela

AnneM said:


> She gives them hell like Satan, and separates the wheat from the chaff like Jesus. Evaluation: _Integrated._


I'm glad we have someone in this forum who can appreciate my Biblical references


----------



## Shrodingers drink

Aridela said:


> Usually yes, because people tend to project an image of themselves that their SO will find attractive. And that's just not sustainable in the long run.
> 
> I give them hell early on, to separate the wheat from the chaff.


I was naturally able to weed out all the gals, by staring into their souls through their eyes, getting them to tell me all their deepest secrets, before having them freak on me and running away. Sounds like I was doing SX right!


----------



## Shrodingers drink

Remnants said:


> are you being irony


No. I'm more a fan of self depreciating humor!


----------



## Firelily

Why the hell do I always end up with men who treat me like *****
if they arent yelling at me they are criticizing me with a smile on their face or cheating or fake liking me because they want something.


----------



## Bellerixx

* *




It's a struggle. people looking at you all the time and you just feel annoyed about it. Because whether you should just let it be that way and then talk to you or tell them that u're uncomfortable


----------



## L P

Is it SX when you have friends and feel close to them but that closeness isn't enough, you crave to be closer with someone in a way closer than you are with friends, because friends aren't filling some hole you have?


----------



## Asd456

L P said:


> Is it SX when you have friends and feel close to them but that closeness isn't enough, you crave to be closer with someone in a way closer than you are with friends, because friends aren't filling some hole you have?


SX feels like I'm always searching for something outside myself to ignite a 'spark' within me. I've spent my whole life chasing after or trying to find someone or something to ignite that spark; when I feel it present within me, that's when I truly feel satisfied, or alive. And when I'm absent of it, life can sometimes feel dull or incomplete, like I am adrift. It's ironic. You can meet someone for the first time and feel closer to this stranger than some people you've known your entire life. And somehow in that one fleeting moment, that connection can make all the difference. Idk if that answers your question.


----------



## Llyralen

L P said:


> Is it SX when you have friends and feel close to them but that closeness isn't enough, you crave to be closer with someone in a way closer than you are with friends, because friends aren't filling some hole you have?


A really close one-on-one friendship can fill it, but a group can’t. Groups really don’t do much for me, even though I’m Sx/So.


----------



## visceral

The desire to be engulfed
But to fear it too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dare

The SP vs SX vs SO approaches at the end of this video makes me smile. 

Then the collision takes my breath away.






There is something about flipping the fear of submersion into a (at least somewhat) delighted resignation (the fall from control is itself a peak experience — what a rush— and then there is come what may —> another wave of intensity crashing over).


----------



## Veggie

I'm pretty sure my bf is an so 5. And I prob shouldn't call him that anymore, bc I think we may really be broken up as of last night.

We've been together about 6 months, and living together for five of them (long story). It's put pressure on things and confused them to say the least. 

We broke up briefly shortly into living together, but decided to give it another shot. The same problems are still rearing their head tho. At the beginning he would see things as "fights" that I barely saw as arguments. Disagreements or debates, sure, but def not fights. Now we really are having arguments and fights by my standards too (still the healthiest I've ever had) and 😔

I'm wondering if there's something fundamentally flawed with this need for honesty and intensity, or if we are just incompatible. But I'd really come around to the idea of dating someone so much different than myself (in that way, at least - we are almost eerily similar in others) but I don't think that he has and... whatcha gonna do. 

He hasn't dated or had as many relationships as me, and I don't think that he values this as much as I do either. We really do get along, like, 98% of the time. We've done several couple trips now (met each other's families too), no drama, we spend every night together falling asleep in each other's arms after what we both agree is amazing sex (never actually been able to really do that). 

I wanna say that I trust him but that I feel dangerous to him, but I'm not sure that's really true. Things usually start to flare up because subconsciously I don't trust someone who just always says and does the "right" thing. (I guess that this is a conscious tendency now if I'm stating it). I probe in an attempt to really try to get to know him and not just his social programming. He hates it lol. Secretly he may feel more dangerous to me. 

Ugh. I'm feeling really extra and loathsome rn. Are the values of instinctual variants somehow more important than the values that we tend to... value as a society more when it comes to relationships? (Thoughts on family, etc). All I know is that I'm pretty sure I've only otherwise been in relationships with other sx types tho, and those crashed and burned a lot harder than this.


----------



## 6007

It gets boring, being so much cooler than everyone else.


----------



## ENIGMA2019

cursive said:


> It gets boring, being so much cooler than everyone else.


----------



## 6007

behind on my work
i know i should just write in a journal, but the idea scares me.
Which means I should do it.
The hand goes directly to the heart.
I already feel more than I can handle.
I know I need to call my mom but I am ashamed to cry in front of her again.
I am so embarrassed.
I had an emotional set back and overwhelm, and for some reason I want to physically hurt myself?
It doesn't make sense.
I never had these problems before, and in many ways I have never been healthier.
So why am I feeling this now?
Because someone I love keeps doing these fucking discards on me, or emotional retreats, which is bringing up oooooold abandonment trauma, and I would rather cease to exist, than be rejected by someone I love so totally.
I have only loved 3 people this much, my mom and dad and this person.
I know the answer is not: stop feeling your feelings.
I have tried, and it won't work.
I want to know why other people are allowed to be: evil, cruel, malicious, violent, abusive, neglectful, and terrible, and people don't leave _them._
No matter how hard I try, no matter how much coursework I do, no matter how patient, transparent, collaborative, and even tempered I am, it is never, ever enough.
The second! I feel or act in any way that shows I am HUMAN too, I am deemed a piece of total trash.
Discarded accordingly.
And don't even get me started on having my past thrown in my face.
But everyone else is real, I am not.
I am not going to hurt myself, I really really REALLY want to, though.
And maybe when I find the courage I can write about that.
Today is not that day.
I am so disappointed.
All of my loved ones are gonna think I am such an idiot.
I keep getting hurt, and they helplessly have to watch.
It makes me feel so ashamed.
I absolutely cannot act on my impulses. I really really want to.
I will order a journal today, I need to just write on paper. It is safer. I can burn it, so it cannot be misinterpreted or so my emotions cannot hurt anyone.
I would rather be dead than hurt others, especially with my feelings.
Feelings just come and go, they aren't supposed to be so toxic, but people respond like it's ... I am just not allowed.
I want to be loved the way other people are loved.


----------



## 6007

have to go to the police station either today or tomorrow because my ex is being a stalker.

i wish i had a local friend to go with me.

i have been scared and weirded out, as if realizing he was actually crazy the last time I was with him was not enough. (i also have stalker trauma from a different stalker that is extremely triggering)

I was in the relationship for almost a year, and was happy to see him when he visited a couple months ago.

it was a shitshow and he was scary. he would have a hair-trigger reaction to stress, would verbally ventilate about wanting to hurt other people, and I could not reconcile that side with the part that made me laugh and who was nice to me.

he was the only boyfriend I ever had who didn’t make me feel relentlessly criticized and not worthy and not good enough.

he mostly only had incredibly nice things to say about me, and I know he meant them.

it felt nice to be appreciated, and not to feel like I was walking on eggshells, near a fire breathing dragon, like Ares the abuser and Byron the rapist.

for once I didn’t feel like someone spent the relationship kicking me, emotionally quartering me.

And nope, he didn’t meet my needs at all.

he never asked how I even was.

I was a free therapist and a friend, and was given the title of girlfriend. And the responsibility of wife.

so i got out of it.

and now he is stalking me.

because

I am too beautiful and nice, other women, according to him, are fatass cumdumpsters with kids who hate men. (lol nice projection) 

i want to vomit remembering how he actually feels about women, and other people.

in the midst of this, I reconnected with someone I love.

Like, really really actually love.

Like, want to marry love.

And I was dealing with ex boyfriend drama and making this person I actually love and want to be with, constantly doubt and fear my investment.

And every discernible and obvious failure on my part to love this wonderful person properly hurt, but I was willing to keep trying.

Over time though, I couldn’t take the persistent feedback that I am not doing a good job at all, it feels like criticism, and I just cannot take it.

and also, the endless work I have to do. 12 hour days, 16 hour days, and I skip sleep to be with this person, and the lack of rest, my stalker ex, and feeling like a failure, has shredded me into pieces.

I am not an anxious attached person, let alone hyper vigilant, but I have become both over the course of this relationship because I care way too much. I care about the foundation, I care about this person, I care probably to a degree that is not healthy or helpful to the relationship. And it’s because I keep feeling as if I am unintentionally triggering him, and then I just feel like an evil, awful person.

I know I am overreacting, but the stress levels and everything else is not helping me.

And in his situation, he can never relax either, so he cannot bring his best self all the time either.

It is a clusterfuck.

So then I had a fucking panic attack, and I was trying to tell him, I needed him to pull me well off the edge, and I was left, emotionally on a cliff, and I panicked.

When he finally told me what was wrong, all I could see with blinding clarity is: nothing you do will ever be good enough, you will walk on eggshells forever, he is going to end up leaving you anyway. R U N

So I did the unthinkable and I fucking ended it.

I just fucking did it.

I could not take the constant feedback that I am not being a successfully loving and safe person, and in fact remind him of the worst person on earth, and I gave up.

I will never be able to take that back. And I made the most beautiful eyes I have ever seen, cry. 

and who knows how many times I have, and I cannot handle it.

so then after I made this epically drastic decision I had to get ready to go to a Christmas party at a group where I am now the leader, I dropped off the present and the food that I brought, I sat down for three minutes and I fucking left.

I got up and left.

I could not control my emotions whatsoever, before the three minutes were up I had already went to the bathroom and cried a minute, came back and sat there and I couldn’t pretend that I was OK.

so I went outside to cry and try to gather myself and after about five minutes this creepy dude who is part of the group decided to come out and sit down and talk with me.

are you fucking kidding me.

so I tell him: I’m under unrelenting stress with my business and I don’t have any physical help for the first time ever and it’s really hard, even though for the most part I’m doing a pretty good job it’s still really demanding, my ex-boyfriend is stalking me, and I just destroyed the relationship with a man I’m in love with an hour ago and I don’t know what to do.

and he’s like: do you have a journal? I really think you need to write all of the stuff down and put it on paper.

I told him it’s really funny that you mention that, I was supposed to get a journal this week but everything keeps going wrong and I haven’t had time.

he said you could probably go to the gas station and just pick up one, but you really need to write this down, you are dealing with way too much.

so I’m looking at him after a while in the darkness and I see that he’s sort of grinding his teeth and me being me, blunt as fuck, I said: are you high right now?

Yes, LSD.

great.

This dude scares me, full stop

And I was just sitting there, couldn’t even fucking get up really, and he’s talking about how he could maybe try to figure out how to help me with my stalket by scaring him and I was like dude no what the fuck.

And just

I leave my house and I either get screamed at by people, or weird people flock to me, I feel so fucking unsafe in this world, so very much as if I have a target on my back or a sign on my face that says: hurt this woman, blame her as the personal avatar of everyone who ever hurt you.

and creepy lsd guy was like

_I know you’re sad but at least you’re beautiful. _

omg.

no.

I went home and went to sleep. Slept 12 hours. dreamt of the man I love. and I cannot move. I just keep crying.

the only common denominator in all of this is me.

I know I am a cheerful pleasant person with good intentions and a lot of love to give. I am willing to surrender and receive a lot too. It isn’t one way Sometimes people give to feel control. I don’t need that.

But I cannot keep feeling like a failure. I try so hard all of the time. I want to be treated as a new person, not a reflection of other people; I am not other people. I am fucking dumber and simpler, and more cheerful and basic. I just want to be loving and be loved. I want to create and share happiness. I want to eat good food (even tho I forget to eat a lot), laugh, see new places, and talk about things that matter. I don’t want to be scrutinized and held under a magnifying glass. I am just trying to make some fucking money and have a peaceful life.

I like my cat. Sometimes she bites me, but she is always simply flexible with me, and she knows I love her. She just knows. I never feel like a failure around her.

so. I have to hit the bookstore and get a journal and go to the cops, and do my work.

I have a client call tomorrow. I have to get my shit together by then.

I am profoundly sad, but I am also numb.

My life is so immensely ridiculous I cannot even laugh. I don’t feel any self pity. I deserve whatever happens to me, or it wouldn’t be happening.

it is my own stupidity that has created all of this, and if I ever become more intelligent, I will see the results in my actual life.

until then, I deserve to suffer.


----------



## mia-me

The sp/sx designation makes perfect sense now, the need to be approached first. Otherwise, the sx doesn't kick in.


----------



## 6007

pretty sure I am a sx/so

The last week has been one of the hardest of my life.

Parts of it were good, I handled myself really well.

Unfortunately two coinciding experiences activated some pretty serious trauma.

I was awash in several emotions: freeze, mutism, and suicidal ideation

Considering ending my own life is scary because I was past it.

But the unrelenting stress of the holiday season and weird behavior from an ex made it come back, as did his newest behavior, crossing state lines to leave things in my property

All day yesterday I was panicking hard

My body would not stop releasing cortisol or adrenaline or something, my heart was racing.

at the same time, I couldn’t figure out how to tell anyone what was going on, and I wanted to kill myself quite seriously.

I was thinking: should I call the hotline

No they will tell you absolutely nothing and besides your entire jaw feels like it is going to fall off

Should I call my mom? No you can’t because she lost her phone and you don’t know what to say anyway because mutism

if you fail in suicide you can’t even go to the hospital because you don’t have insurance, and you don’t have insurance because this shit that this asshole was doing made you freak out while you were filling out the application. And you couldn’t calm down.

and you can’t go to the hospital to be admitted, even though you really should be there, because insurance

and I couldn’t call my therapist because my phone was turned off because I had to turn it off because touching it was giving me more panic

because the day before my ex showed up on my door some other person came up out of nowhere in my life, someone who used to invade every boundary and force herself on me for a year, byron hated her, and she ended up taking the side of J after he raped me, because since his current girlfriend is happy with him he couldn’t possibly be an abuser.

I blocked her in 2020.

Well she came back and wow

she was only in my reality for 48 hours before she tried to take the whole thing over and make it more complicated

as soon as she found out my ex was in my property she was trying to orchestrate other people to come to my house, to help me. Strangers.

oh and it gets better I couldn’t actually comment on anything because I was in Facebook jail and I was in Facebook jail probably because my ex reported my account so I can’t communicate with any of my friends which is part of what leads me to believe I am also a social subtype sx/so because not being able to talk to my friends is actually fucking upsetting because they were giving me emotional support which I very much need at this time

So I am totally isolated

But wait! It gets better!

so I am awash with awful flashbacks all day long, panic attacks, hysteria, crying, and my boyfriend was having an awful two days and more because he’s been going through the stuff with me side-by-side watching what’s going on in addition to his own things, and he was handling stuff and giving me updates.

I was experiencing freeze and being mute and paralysis and terror of my phone and I didn’t know how to tell him, because I absolutely had to turn my phone off, and I think I sent him an email but I don’t know if he actually ever read it because he never responded

so by the time I was calm enough to turn my phone back on I guess he was upset with me and he said some thing that made it seem to me like he was going to stop talking to me which was the last thing I wanted because he’s literally the only person I have right now

so as soon as I thought what he was saying was that he didn’t wanna be with me anymore or that we can’t talk anymore, I started panicking even worse and hysterically crying

and when I told him that what he said was like the last thing I ever needed right now because of my mental state, apparently that was me blaming him for everything, so he dumped me. I really needed him and his support but I Could see he needed his energy and focus more, and I was trying to let him get things together and I was already mute and trying not to die but he couldn’t deal with the change in my energy I guess. which, to be honest, if he was silent even for 24 hours and he came back and said I was having mental health issues I’d be like oh my God how are you how can I help. But holy fuck is he not like me.

And I am so profoundly sad.

on the plus side I blocked that girl, and I’m not going to explain shit. I fucking hate her.

she ended up telling me on Thursday: long-distance relationships don’t seem to really work out well for you because you can’t seem to get a good read on who people are at a distance I was like lol yeah

The next day she said so is your current boyfriend long distance and I said yes and she was like oh Lord

Well, she was right I guess.

I hate her, she is a fucking obsessed creep, Who has tried to force emotional intimacy on me that I did not want, knowing full well I don’t even fucking like her but she thinks she can force herself to be my friend, every boundary I ever try to keep with her she immediately smashed and none of this is any exception.

she was in my life for 48 hours and tried to take over everything, and her energy is so repulsive to me that I’m only now just shaking it off

And all last night I had nightmares about my ex who showed up at my house, he was in my face in my dream, my friend called him to help us because we were stranded somewhere and he was being really fucking annoying but even though he was in my dream and whining and being annoying I actually handled it really well and that was nice and then I woke up and I was broken up with that was the first thing I saw today

My newest ex simply blocked me everywhere. End of relationship.

and it’s funny but I would never do that to someone, when I have ended my relationships I have talked to people about it, I let them know that I was grateful for the relationship but that I could no longer continue it or something similar. (Actually now that I think about it, I did end my relationship abruptly with him one time, after I couldn’t take how many times he had done the same thing to me, but ordinarily that is not in my nature and it’s not some thing that I would do going forward either, but for accuracy, technically I did it once, so I suppose the actual truth is it is something that I would do very very rarely and only under very serious circumstances.)

But to barely make it through yesterday alive and to wake up to being discarded. again. Well, I am going to to everything I can to just make it through today.

And tomorrow.

And the next day.

I would never do this to him. I would never. But he has done it multiple times, just blocked me. I don’t deserve it.

I don’t deserve any of this actually.

now that I really think about it I did not deserve to be raped. I said no three times. I didn’t deserve for someone to cross state lines after I told them no several times and ended the relationship two months ago to leave things at my house and make me spend so much time at the police station. I didn’t deserve to have someone I have not spoken to in a year and a half take control of and try to organize my experience dealing with my ex. I did not deserve to be limited on Facebook so that I couldn’t even communicate with my friends right in the middle of getting emotional support. And I certainly did not deserve to be dumped and ghosted.

Ultimately it is on me to really choose people more carefully. No one gets my phone number or my address until I have known them for a very long time.

and anyone who simply blocks me, does not ever get a second chance. That is final end of story. I’m sick and tired of giving people the benefit of the doubt and having them simply discard me every time I don’t act perfectly. That is not good communication, that is not healthy, and it is not welcome in my life and I will never accept that ever again.

I am an opportunity that only knocks once.

In spite of all of this, I know I’m a good person, I know that I would make someone very happy as a wife. 

more often than not I am actually emotionally stable, it is dealing with other people who do crazy boundary breaking things that causes me to be so upset, it doesn’t originate from me. 

I myself am a calm, loving, supportive person. I can only take responsibility for my half of the equation, and absolutely nobody is going to perform perfectly when they have just been physically harassed by somebody else and emotionally harassed by yet another person who is friends with their rapist.

other people, chaotic people, mean people, they get every free pass. 

I express terror and hurt feelings and I get discarded. 

I don’t deserve it. I really don’t. 

no one performs perfectly under stress, and I can certainly understand that. But the kind of people I want in my life are the people who come closer or at least communicate why the distance is there if there is distance. I let my former boyfriend know to the best of my ability what was going on after he asked, and he still thought ghosting me was a good idea. 

I couldn’t imagine doing that to a person who wanted to end their life, let alone someone I claimed to love. 

but it’s not like I just feel like I want to self harm for no reason, it’s for reasons that cops are involved in, and I did not expect him to be my emotional rescue team, but the second I take a step back to actually take care of my own energy and not try to throw it on him, all of a sudden hell breaks loose?

I am not the cause of these things, but it’s on me to clean them all up. 

I have to choose better people. But as for me?
I am a good person. I deserve much better than all of this. I always have. 

fuck, even “bad” people don’t deserve this tbh. No one does.


----------



## 6007

contacted my therapist, waiting for a response. My high school best friend offered to pay for a couple sessions for me because financially things have been rather unstable in the last two weeks or three weeks. I am so fortunate. 

I asked a friend to help me solve a problem on bookface because I can’t even post for my business and he said yes. I cannot figure out how to add him so it will wait. I was just going to delete my entire page anyway but since it’s been around for a couple years it’s probably better if I don’t and I just find someone else to help me run it. 

It is unfortunate that talking to this chick triggered me so bad, but it will help me heal more so that’s good. 

I was asked by an old friend today 
_How do you have such amazingly bad luck with people?_

I don’t know. 

But I do know who I am. 

My self concept is wife. I am a wife. I am a successful business woman. I am happy and positive. 

And I won’t settle for any fuck shit. Nor tolerate bs from a hag from the midwest or some scrawny idiot from the east coast. 

I am getting baptized this year I decided, and I will pursue my new business venture and put my heart and soul into that. getting the legal name change, including first name. 


I am over all of this. It is time to set fire to as much of that person who only attracts predators and weirdos.

And move on.


----------



## 6007

Oh my God it’s like endless verbal diarrhea but I seriously have to get this off of my chest

So my ex essentially blamed me for his terrible boundaries and that is why he broke up with me. I asked him multiple times to stop watching my stalker because it was very obvious it was hurting his mental health and my other friends were watching instead. I even told him that it seemed like a much better idea to outsource the observation to somebody else who was not as emotionally invested. And yet he would still look every day and make himself sick. 

my best friend from high school actually dropped the ball on it (stalker posted on social media that he was going to see me soon) and my ex didn’t even see what the stalker was doing either, and lo and behold this fucking dude end up on my doorstep. Nobody could’ve predicted this and it’s nobody’s fault _except the stalker._

but I asked my ex multiple times to stop watching this guy, and from the very beginning of our relationship this dude the stalker was a third-party and I never wanted him there in the first place. On top of this, watching my stalker apparently caused my ex to neglect his own work, which whose fault is that? motherfucker is literally stalking _me_, and I’m still doing my work but okay.

Like, It is not my fucking fault you have no boundaries whatsoever, be an adult and take accountability for the fact that you’re codependent as fuck


----------



## daleks_exterminate

6007 said:


> It gets boring, being so much cooler than everyone else.


I feel that.


----------

