# SJ's Help me understand what the purpose of marriage and love is.



## fulgoreakuma (Sep 1, 2014)

I have always planned on getting married from a young age. Its pretty important to me, so much so that I will be saving myself for that person only, whoever she may be. However my view of what marriage should be, is very different than what everyone is telling me. Please reserve judgements till you've fully read my post 

Marriage to me is like a partnership to achieve a happier lifestyle, where both people's are better off with eachother than without. Its almost like a business deal. Each person will be providing something different to the role. The husband will be providing income and security as his main function, as well as freedom to the wife from the life of work. She gets to have control over the household and what she does with her time and her portion of the husbands earnings (which will be mutually agreed upon by both people's), as long as she fills her role. She is to provide Children to the husband and help raise them, as well as keep the house within acceptable cleanliness. A reverse role can be done, but only if both people's agree. However, I believe the wife naturally suited to the household manager because of the fact that it is harder to work when pregnant and breast feeding children (which is healthier for developing the childrens immune system), and husband better suited to the role of provider because of his greater physical and arguably mental hardiness. Activities such as Rest and Relaxation and Sexual activities and their frequency will be determined within the marriage period, but a general statement of what will be expected must be determined pre wedding ceremony.

If I could present this as a contract to the girls I know, I would. it just seems so much more efficient than dating them for 3-5 years!
But I am not a complete idiot. They all know im a little weird, but every single one of them would would likely hate it and wouldn't give it a second thought, same as probably every other woman in the world.

My close friends and family members mostly tell me that you have to love a person. Love to me is the recognition of value, or more specifically in this case, the recognition of value for spending your lives together as life partners, stronger together than without, becoming a single unit.

Thats wrong apperently, and they all say I won't know what love is till I "experience it for myself". I thought I did, and the above is what my feelings were describing to me. tbh I feel a little insecure about the subject, and I feel lost 

I am asking you SJ's because you tend to think the least like INTJ's because of our lack of Si and Fe. So maybe there is something that is clear to you, but invisible to me. possibly something crucial that I am missing 

So the question is, What is marriage to you? What does love mean?


----------



## sprinkle (Feb 10, 2017)

I agree that marriage is a partnership to achieve a happier lifestyle, where both people are better off with each other than without. However, I don't see marriage or relationship as a business deal. I don't see myself employing my spouse either. I don't treat people like employees and measure them based on how much they can satisfy the job description. Yeah, I can see people bailing out of a marriage contract like that.


----------



## a peach (May 21, 2015)

This made me giggle a bit—you sound exactly like my boyfriend's ENTJ father, as he put in his own words: "hired" his wife. Personally, I don't think this sounds weird at all; in fact, this is very similar to how I feel about marriage. I also feel it's a waste of time to date when the other party isn't interested in marriage, and when starting to date someone, that is my goal. (Which is what leads me to having always been very picky with dating from when I was younger; I was just looking for someone whom I could really see myself living with forever.)

Marriage to me is two people being able to overcome any differences and difficulties with one another, and together be able to take care of and uplift each other. I find marriage to be a responsibility and a commitment, to yourself and your family. And with all those reasons you've mentioned, they should find a way to coexist and help make one another's lives easier and provide for the home in their own ways.

To me, love means being able to see myself being with someone forever, being happy. It's looking forward to making new memories with that person. To take care of them and nurture them when they're sick, in pain or when they feel the blues. It's wanting them in my world, not feeling intruded by them. Being comfortable to be myself with them, never feeling embarrassed or ashamed of myself. Feeling accepted and loved back.


----------



## Librarylady (Mar 11, 2017)

Marriage to me is a life-long commitment, dedicated to making your bond stronger with the the added role of responsibility.

I tend to follow the tradition in regards to wanting a serious relationship, someone to love, and wanting the responsibility of caring for my spouse. But I do not want an old-fashioned marriage and I do not like such strict gender roles being involved that were listed. Opinions will vary a bit on that. I just know that for me; Marriage means love, commitment, and responsibility. I am at least traditional in the extent that I value having that bond and forming a stable life with the person.

Love is hard to describe. Being an ISTJ; I'm also a thinker type, so I don't really express emotions so overtly. I tend to approach relationships more practically, and show I care through actions. Your description of having a loving relationship seems pretty accurate to how I usually feel- spending life together as life partners, stronger together than without. I think if you love someone, you'll know it deep down. I feel like the person completes me and that my life has meaning with them there.


----------



## lookslikeiwin (May 6, 2014)

I'm not an SJ but I got bored of the NT forum. I actually feel similarly regarding marriage. I mean, there has to be some flexibility. I've discovered that the man really has to chip in when his wife is pregnant and breastfeeding, and sometimes the wife is going to have to get a part time job or something. I actually had to stop breastfeeding because I was having mental breakdowns from the lack of sleep lol. I didn't want to do meds if I could help it. But I do think generally speaking, it's a good trade-off. 

Also, my husband is supportive and puts me before ANYONE else, including children. I think that's really important. Everyone always puts kids first, but no. Kids will benefit from mom and dad putting each other first. But anyway, I am getting off topic.

I wouldn't present this as a contract - that seems too rigid and would be a terrifying undertaking - but my husband and I were discussing things like this within the first two months that we began dating, so we actually were married about 18 months after that with everything in mind. The things that you're going to have trouble with are largely due to the rigidity and coldness of this presentation. Breastfeeding was literally the most difficult thing I have ever done in my life and I don't know if I can do it again. It required a lot of emotional support from my husband (who is an ENTJ btw) and the house is NOT clean when you're doing that. Nor will there be food cooked unless of course, you don't expect your wife to need to sleep or rest. The baby has to eat every 2 hours throughout most of the day for a month, and sometimes even all night if you're unlucky (thankfully mine would sleep a few hours at a time during the morning). It doesn't really improve much until after 3 months. Moreover, your wife will have flaws and you have flaws, and you guys will have to deal with that. Depression, ADHD, anxiety, etc are all potential factors to your situation.

So basically, you absolutely have to be prepared for unexpected things to happen, and you're both there for emotional support as much as creating an efficient family unit. In fact, your family unit will NOT be efficient if you do not take emotional needs into account. And of course, surprise financial situations, in which case she might need to get a job at some point and you might have to start taking over some of the household care. It is beneficial to have separate, defined roles, imo, but you can't restrict them too much. Also, if something happened to one of you, the one left behind needs to be able to work, do bills, clean house and cook, so having at least a little experience everywhere is good.


----------



## Jeffrei (Aug 23, 2016)

I'm not an ISTJ so if you are looking for strictly ISTJ responses feel free to just skip over mine.

Marage is not a business deal. If you look at it that way you are going to be miserable because the other person won't always live up to their end of the contract. In fact, if you approach marriage with the attitude, "what's in it for me" you are actually missing the whole point to begin with.

A marage is where you look out for the other person, and put their needs over yours. They also do the same for you. The result is both of you endlessly making each other happy, looking out for each other, and always having someone who knows you well enough to make your day (or night (just saying)). However, none of it works if you don't put the other person first, and keep them first. They will know if you are putting yourself first and (unless you found a really good one) they will do the same. But like they say, "Anything worth having is worth working for." (People do say that, right?)

Although, I personally don't see the benifits of marriage yet. I am told that is because I haven't found "the one yet." I have to admit though, the idea of a bff that always has your back doesn't sound that bad.


----------



## Shale (Jan 17, 2012)

Librarylady said:


> Marriage to me is a life-long commitment, dedicated to making your bond stronger with the the added role of responsibility.
> 
> I tend to follow the tradition in regards to wanting a serious relationship, someone to love, and wanting the responsibility of caring for my spouse. But I do not want an old-fashioned marriage and I do not like such strict gender roles being involved that were listed. Opinions will vary a bit on that. I just know that for me; Marriage means love, commitment, and responsibility. I am at least traditional in the extent that I value having that bond and forming a stable life with the person.
> 
> Love is hard to describe. Being an ISTJ; I'm also a thinker type, so I don't really express emotions so overtly. I tend to approach relationships more practically, and show I care through actions. Your description of having a loving relationship seems pretty accurate to how I usually feel- spending life together as life partners, stronger together than without. I think if you love someone, you'll know it deep down. I feel like the person completes me and that my life has meaning with them there.


I think this post accurately describes my ISTJ husband. We've been married 18 years. 

We've had a pretty easy marriage for the most part. I think our only issue arose out of the feeling of being connected or not. I think it's safe to say this happens often with marriage in general. As with "marriage" ... you agree to work through it, to stay committed to each other. 

We speak a different language at times. We've grown to recognize when we are just not on the same wave length. In this example, you will never find someone "perfect" ... but to find someone that can respect you for you. All feelings and thoughts are valid.


----------



## WindChime (Jun 28, 2016)

fulgoreakuma said:


> I have always planned on getting married from a young age. Its pretty important to me, so much so that I will be saving myself for that person only, whoever she may be. However my view of what marriage should be, is very different than what everyone is telling me. Please reserve judgements till you've fully read my post
> 
> Marriage to me is like a partnership to achieve a happier lifestyle, where both people's are better off with eachother than without. Its almost like a business deal. Each person will be providing something different to the role. The husband will be providing income and security as his main function, as well as freedom to the wife from the life of work. She gets to have control over the household and what she does with her time and her portion of the husbands earnings (which will be mutually agreed upon by both people's), as long as she fills her role. She is to provide Children to the husband and help raise them, as well as keep the house within acceptable cleanliness. A reverse role can be done, but only if both people's agree. However, I believe the wife naturally suited to the household manager because of the fact that it is harder to work when pregnant and breast feeding children (which is healthier for developing the childrens immune system), and husband better suited to the role of provider because of his greater physical and arguably mental hardiness. Activities such as Rest and Relaxation and Sexual activities and their frequency will be determined within the marriage period, but a general statement of what will be expected must be determined pre wedding ceremony.
> 
> ...


This was rather amusing to read. 

It's actually not uncommon to have a 'contract' marriage like that in today's world. If you look into Asian countries, that form of marriage still exists. Everything is very business-like, down to the gender roles (i.e. Arranged marriages). 

I think your approach to marriage is rather clinical and focused primarily on the mundane things that need to be done such as earning a living, keeping area clean, procreate and raise children, etc. Your spouse is an individual with hopes, dreams, regrets, and so on. To be reduced into a housemaid/nanny role is quite tragic. 

But I would like to ask why would you want to get married in the first place? Everything is so by the book, with the i's and t's crossed that you might be better off hiring people to do the daily things that you need instead. Life is rather unpredictable, so what happens if the spouse or yourself cannot meet the 'contract terms' anymore? Do you consider the terms breached and the contract is voided? 

In a sense, marriage is like a contract. People who sign up for it knows what is up. But your approach is simply methodical. The person you are marrying in question wants to know they are being valued for who they are and not chosen because of how good their cleaning/cooking skills are. 

From a SJ standpoint, marriage is when you found someone who you can stand to wake up next to every day. Someone who you want the best for and vice versa. Someone who can support you through the good times and the bad times. Someone who brings colors into the otherwise grey world of your life. Marriage is a life-long commitment to one another, where memories are created, arguments are to be had, burdens are tackled, and joy to be shared. 

If worst comes worst, you can always do mail-order brides. They fit into the 'contract' marriage that you are looking for. You provide financial security and they fall into the housekeeper role. All business. Nothing else.


----------



## artofbalance (May 19, 2016)

lol. this is why i can't date intjs, ya'll take the feelings out of love + marriage completely. it's way too practical. i need the fuzzy feels + head over heels in love and feeling like i'm valued as a partner. i don't fit typical gender roles anyway (i'm a serial entrepreneur so my hubs would have to respect that i'm not gonna be cleaning the house-- that's what housekeepers are for right?).

i think your form of marriage is pretty typical of some cultures (arranged marriages + asian cultures especially), and i think you'll be able to find what you're looking for. but this view is just too methodical for my personal preference.


----------

