# Am I a disciplined INFP or a lost ISTJ?



## ArmchairCommie (Dec 27, 2015)

Hello people of Personality Cafe! Ever since I discovered the MBTI system four months ago I've had trouble typing myself. At first, when I only took those online tests I would consistently get INTJ or ISTJ and I was confident that I was an INTJ as I've been a stereotypical nerd all my life. However once I got into looking at the cognitive functions I realized how I definitely use Ne and Si, not Ni and Se, because my thoughts are very scatterbrained and I live a very bland and conservative lifestyle physically. 

Then I thought of myself as an INTP, seeing as it was the other introverted type in the NT group and I had to be a NT because I am so smart right? Wrong. 

More recently I've learned the true meaning of Fi, and how it is not necessarily all about being selfish, just possessing a strict moral code which you hold yourself and others up to. So then I typed myself as an INFP, which makes so much sense as both INTJs and ISTJs also have the Fi-Te axis in them, just flipped the other way around.

However, just today I've been thinking about how those initial typings as ISTJ may have indeed been correct. I am a very logical and disciplined person and whenever I am hanging out with my friends I often think about how childish it is for us all to be laughing over completely useless things. My best friend, who might be an ESTP, always says that I am too boring and should do more "fun" stuff like sports. Also while INFPs are supposed to be creative and everything I seem to have no artistic talent whatsoever. I tried playing percussion for 4 years until I realized that I couldn't even keep a simple beat. I used to draw ships and forts all the time when I was a little kid, but now all I can seem to draw are stick figures and blobs. I like to think of myself as a good writer yet English is one of my worst subjects in school. I just seem to possess none of the creativity of an INFP.

And yet, at the same time, I also doubt that I am an ISTJ. All the descriptions I've read for ISTJs talk about how they are people who know their place in society and are able to do the same thing over and over again, as they have Si as their dominant function. Yet I am nowhere near as organized as ISTJs are supposed to be, I am horrible at organizing things even though I myself am unsettled whenever I see other people's disorganization. I also feel far too emotional for an ISTJ, I am a very sensitive person and I feel like I crack under pressure far too easily. While I do like order and peace and rules, sometimes I just feel like the procedures are too inefficient and aren't worthwhile so I completely disregard them. Also ISTJs are supposed to be one of the most common of types and perhaps this may be pretentious of me to say, but I feel like too much of a social outcast to be "normal." But maybe that is just attributed to the brutish nature of high school? Also I sometimes wonder if all these feelings of my social isolation are just a fantasy contrived by my angst filled teenage brain. Yet at the same time, it could be that all my strong affinity towards the rules is just the result of going a rigorous school and having an ISTJ father who always tells me that I just need to work hard at my studies to succeed in life.

So, after going through thinking of myself as an ISTJ, INTJ, INTP, and INFP I think that I have narrowed it down to either the first or the last. (Though if you have a very valid reason for me being another type then by all means, telling me what else you think I could be.) If I am an ISTJ that likely means that the identity crisis I am currently going through is just a temporary adolescent phase. If I am an INFP that likely means that it is in fact the first step of a self-awakening as I am start to find out my "niche" in society. So do you think I am a disciplined/non-creative INFP or a lost/eccentric ISTJ?


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## KillinIt (Jul 27, 2015)

Firstly, I think INFP and secondly I'd say don't focus on the descriptions of why each type 'should' be


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

If I showed you a picture of a bird what would you say to describe it?

In math class, in order to understand the problem do you need the general concept or example?

Are you 1. or 2. here (using Robert2928's example):

1. “Wow that girl hugged me so she must like me…wait isn’t this what happened on (insert tv show here)? Oh she doesn’t like me afterall”

2. What has personally happened. “Wow that girl hugged me so she must like me…then again (insert other girl name here) hugged me and she didn’t like me so maybe I’m wrong”


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

ArmchairCommie said:


> Hello people of Personality Cafe! Ever since I discovered the MBTI system four months ago I've had trouble typing myself. At first, when I only took those online tests I would consistently get INTJ or ISTJ and I was confident that I was an INTJ as I've been a stereotypical nerd all my life. However once I got into looking at the cognitive functions I realized how I definitely use Ne and Si, not Ni and Se, because my thoughts are very scatterbrained and I live a very bland and conservative lifestyle physically.
> 
> Then I thought of myself as an INTP, seeing as it was the other introverted type in the NT group and I had to be a NT because I am so smart right? Wrong.
> 
> ...


In this you come across primarily as a Thinker. Moral code or not. Do you spend more mental effort ruminating on nuance of feeling, or do you spend more time thinking logically? Which comes more naturally to the conscious mind. 

Consider that many moral philosophers are, in fact, Thinkers. What they think about is not as important as the fact that they Think about it primarily.. rather than ruminate on the feeling-tones and value impressions themselves, without the strength of logic.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

@ArmchairCommie You seem like a Thinker from this post. You talk about your feelings very little and focus on what's logical based on given information. As for the stereotypes, they're just that. Not all INFPs are artists and not all ISTJ organise ever single minute of their time. What matters is if the functions fit.


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## ArmchairCommie (Dec 27, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> If I showed you a picture of a bird what would you say to describe it?
> 
> In math class, in order to understand the problem do you need the general concept or example?
> 
> ...


I would probably use the details of the bird to describe exactly what I see, that way you can get the full information about it clearly and simply.
It depends, sometimes I am able to understand a topic just by hearing about and then having it click, but most of the time I find myself simply copying the procedures that were given in examples from the book.
I'm probably #1 here, after all I realize that I am still a teenager so I know nothing in comparison to the rest of society.



Prada said:


> @ArmchairCommie You seem like a Thinker from this post. You talk about your feelings very little and focus on what's logical based on given information. As for the stereotypes, they're just that. Not all INFPs are artists and not all ISTJ organise ever single minute of their time. What matters is if the functions fit.


Yes, indeed, I recognize that fact and as such I have narrowed down my search to a MBTI type with the following functions:
Te, Fi, Ne, Si
The only possible combinations for those four functions are INFP, ISTJ, ENFP, and ESTJ. Seeing as I am very introverted and am simply exhausted by hanging around too many people for too long I am certainly not an extrovert. As such, I have only got INFP and ISTJ left as options.



Psychopomp said:


> In this you come across primarily as a Thinker. Moral code or not. Do you spend more mental effort ruminating on nuance of feeling, or do you spend more time thinking logically? Which comes more naturally to the conscious mind.
> 
> Consider that many moral philosophers are, in fact, Thinkers. What they think about is not as important as the fact that they Think about it primarily.. rather than ruminate on the feeling-tones and value impressions themselves, without the strength of logic.


To be honest, I don't understand what you mean by "the nuances of feeling?" Sometimes I feel like I can't even "feel" emotions, I just register them in a very logical way. For example, whenever I am angry at something I am just like "Wow, this makes me so angry" or when I am sad I am like "Wow, I am sad." I don't really understand the root origin of the feelings, though I can sometimes guess them, and while I am physically making a fist or crying my eyes out on the inside I just feel like, "Ugh, why do I have to feel all these emotions? Why must emotions play such a large role in my life?" In fact, the fact that I understand emotions so poorly is the reason that I thought I was an INTP before, but INTPs have Ti as their dominant function and while Ti is all about innovating a new way to think about things I am a very by the books kind of scientist.

You know, probably I am an ISTJ after all. I guess the thing that was preventing me from realizing this fact was the stereotypes about ISTJs being "mindless drones" or something. I am after all clearly more of a logical person than a feeler as I dislike doing something based purely on my "guts" and trust in logic far more. In fact, even though everyone is always saying how you should "trust your instincts" or "do what you think is right" whenever I follow either pieces of evidence I always screw up and just fall flat on my face. I remember just this Tuesday I was thinking to myself "You know, everyone always says how I am so boring and always follow the same old routine. Maybe I should start breaking my old routines by just walking along down a different hallway to class." And of course, then I realized that this hallway just goes right around and past my classroom, making me travel twice the distance and almost be late for class." Perhaps my intuition just isn't that good? Yeah, I think that my Ne function is actually the weakest of the four. Even though my head is always racing with ideas and new plans and philosophies, whenever I try to actually implement these ideas into the real world they always fall flat. I just seem to lack any originality whatsoever, I mean even my most creative of ideas are really nothing more than saying "Hm, I wonder what would happen if I put a toaster and the bag of loafs together, to create an automatic toaster!" And then I realize that I can't get the toast to fit into the slots the right way.

Well, that was very interesting indeed. Apparently I am an ISTJ, despite the fact that my parents always like to say that I am so innovative and smart and stuff. They are probably just being typical parents, saying typical empty statements of encouragement like that. It does make sense that I am an Si-dom as I just hate it when things change and I hate it when people disregard the rules, even if it is for the better. For whatever reason one of the people I dislike most in the world are hipsters, I do not understand why it is cool to hate on something just because the majority of people like it. I really don't like those who think of themselves as "special snowflakes" but maybe I am simply being too intolerant. My apologies. In my high school, I am one of the few people who even bother to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, despite the fact that I am a communist and hate the capitalist government that America has. Paradoxically I am a very avid patriot, yet also a vocal revolutionary. Perhaps that is normal though, maybe it is better to have contradictory viewpoints than to be an ideological purist, promoting dogma for dogma's sake. Also, since Si is all about reminiscing about the past, and seeing how I love History so much that might be another point that leans towards me being an Si-dom.

Though who knows, maybe I have once again found the wrong type and before I know it I'll have convinced myself that I am an extrovert! Lol. But for now at least, being an ISTJ seems like the true model of my brain, as I favor tradition over innovation and prefer logic to using subjective and nonsensical feelings. Maybe one of these days I will stop having so many ludicrous dreams and fantasies about me being a brilliant genius who will do something super awesome and start drilling down on my work. After all, hard work beats everything except luck, and even luck is very fickle and can often leave you out in the cold right when you feel like you are just about to shine. 

I apologize if this rant has been too depressing and/or demotivating. I would also like to say thank you KillinIt, Kitty23, Psychopomp, and Prada for replying to my thread and helping me (hopefully) figure out my actual type, not just the ones that everyone wants me to be.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I think you're reading into stereotypes too much. And also focusing on behavior too much instead of thought process. I am an ISTJ and I am not a mindless drone. Think of Luna Lovegood vs Hermione Granger from the Harry Potter series. Luna Love good is either INFP or INTP. Luna is a daydreamer who has a floaty vibe to her, just like my real life INFP friend. Hermione Granger is either ESTJ or ISTJ. She is grounded and fact oriented, just like I am. Who do you better relate to? Also NF's are idealists and SJ's are realists. So ask yourself just how idealistic you are?
Is geometry or algebra easier for you? and why? 

Have you seen this site?

Have you ever explained cognitive functions? If... - Confessions of a Myers Briggs-aholic

And you're welcome


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

@ArmchairCommie You're welcome. Don't focus so much on stereotypes when looking into MBTI. Hopefully, you managed to find your true type.


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## ArmchairCommie (Dec 27, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I think you're reading into stereotypes too much. And also focusing on behavior too much instead of thought process. I am an ISTJ and I am not a mindless drone. Think of Luna Lovegood vs Hermione Granger from the Harry Potter series. Luna Love good is either INFP or INTP. Luna is a daydreamer who has a floaty vibe to her, just like my real life INFP friend. Hermione Granger is either ESTJ or ISTJ. She is grounded and fact oriented, just like I am. Who do you better relate to? Also NF's are idealists and SJ's are realists. So ask yourself just how idealistic you are?
> Is geometry or algebra easier for you? and why?
> 
> Have you seen this site?
> ...


Yeah, I'm pretty sure I am an ISTJ now. The only reason I thought I could be an INFP before is because I was a bit depressed and whining to my mother about the fact that I am such an introvert, but whenever I am in school or in public I act like a total robot. Also, something that is really weird about me is that I actually like bland food and I also like doing monotonous work. When I was out shoveling snow today it actually made me feel pumped up, despite the fact that my arms where aching and everything. Also I have a weird habit of holding doors open for people, I just derive some sort of strange pride from being a door holder for everyone. I think these are all characteristics of Si. Also, I know that I use Te as all my friends at school call me things like "a robot", "intellectual", "logical", and "boring." If I used Ti, it would mean that I couldn't extrovert thinking, which is my defining characteristic.

All my life I wanted a scientist. I thought anything related to science was "cool" and anything related to sports was "uncivilized." When I typed myself as an INTJ, I thought that it was a perfect fit, after all INTJs are called the Scientists by some. Then when I mistyped myself as an INTP I thought it was a perfect fit as INTP is Einstein's type, and Einstein is one of my idols. Then when I mistyped myself as an INFP I thought it was a perfect fit as INFPs have Te as an inferior function and I thought that I was just feeling a drive towards logic despite the fact that I am subpar at organization. However, ISTJ is definitely my type as I think that I must have just been stuck in a Si-Fi loop, skipping over my auxiliary function and shying away from people because I was scared that they might hurt me.

Here is what I believe to have been the cause of my Si-Fi loop. From 8th grade to 10th grade I had this crazy rebel who was my best friend. He was edgy beyond all belief, being a brony, an avid Star Trekkie, and even wearing high heels to school on occasion because they "felt cool." He definitely had a lot of Fi in him, might have even been an INFP though he was much more brutish and mean in my opinion to have been a feeler. It is most likely that he was just a very extroverted INTJ. He certainly more creative and outlandish than I could ever hope to be, so I stuck to him. However, at the end of 10th grade for some reason he stopped hanging out with me and my longtime best friend (probable ESTP, he is an avid hockey fan) and when my ESTP friend convinced me to confront him about it my "best friend" said, "You guys are too boring and no fun. I'm don't care about you at all." Then he went back to watching more old episodes of Star Trek and I never spoke to him again. And of course, after 10th grade he moved out of town his hometown where he has (in his exact words) "a whole gang of friends, dozens of them." 

I think this event just made me afraid that no one truly cared about me, and that all my friends could at any second just abandon me and leave me alone forever. So I decided that mortal relationships weren't worth the effort, and that I was much better off just ignoring everything else and focusing on my work. Ironically, this actually produced some pretty good results, as during my junior year I got nearly got straight As. Yet that isolation was unsustainable, so around October of last year I had a minor mental breakdown and started getting into really sappy emo stuff and stopped caring about school and science and everything. 

But now I think I am better and am learning to interact with people somewhat again, being a 2nd semester senior should hopefully give me enough time to de-stress and have some fun with my friends. Also sorry if this is too much personal information or anything, or too ranty or anything, I just want to make sure you understood my situation fully. Lol, then again, maybe I could be an INTJ as I always like to think of myself as idealistic and abstract, though that is only like a 7% probability, I am now 90% confident that I am an ISTJ, just like my father and grandfather. But anyway, thank you so much for being so helpful to me and letting me see that I am in fact an ISTJ, as justified by my cognitive stack:

1st - Si: I am clearly a Si dominant as I love the same old, same old, I hate change and also have a surprisingly good memory. If I lived in a perfect world of pure laziness, all I would do is relive my past events and feel super nostalgic all the time.
2nd - Te: I definitely have Te as my auxiliary as whenever anyone wants to describe me, the word that most often comes to mind is robotic. I also love science and I love to show off my knowledge to others, I feel a great amount of pride from the fact that I am smarter than most of my peers academically.
3rd - Fi: I most definitely introvert my feelings as I can't recall any time that I have ever shown real emotion to any one of my friends. I also feel really awkward when others extrovert their emotions, I feel like they should just keep private stuff to themselves. Plus I have a very strict moral adherence to certain beliefs, such as Technocratic Communism, despite the fact that others say it is too unrealistic and wouldn't work IRL.
4th - Ne: I don't know how I feel about it being in last place, but I definitely do use it somewhat regularly as I am very scatterbrained at times, thinking up about dozens of possible scenarios that make absolutely no sense. Though I do feel like it is less often used than my Si as I do not like forging my own path, that would be too much work, and I would rather prefer to go the route most traveled, following the crowd when I am too lost.

Once again, my apologies for this post being so long, I tend to ramble on far too often as I just feel like everyone should know what is needed to be known. And if all the knowledge contained within this post is false (a very slight, yet present probability) then one may always disregard it.

EDIT: Hm, now I am thinking that the probability of me being an INTJ is closer to 30% or 40%, because of the fact that I spend so much of my time in my own little world inside my head. I hear that ISTJ are much more grounded than that, so I once again have my doubts about my type... Sorry that this confusion has gone on for so long, I guess I still know nothing about the MBTI system, relatively speaking that is.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Ok so let me help you see the difference between the functions. 

*Also, Ni and Si are really similar.* They both have an abstract quality to them. They are both introverted perceiving functions. Both are connected to memory and experience. They both create archetypes. Ni- conceptual archetypes. Si- physical archetypes. Both have hard time dealing with things they haven’t dealt with before. Both have an attitude about taking short cuts “Oh, I’ve seen this before. This is the answer. " They don’t need to think through the specific details to know what’s going to happen, since they’ve already seen it before. Both look to the past to help them figure out new situations. But Si is concrete. Ni is conceptual. 

Biggest difference: *Si is about concrete experiences. Ni is about conceptual experinces.

*(from Robert2928's example)

*conceptual experience-* 1.“Wow that girl hugged me so she must like me…wait isn’t this what happened on (insert tv show here)? Oh she doesn’t like me afterall”

*concrete experience*- 2. What has personally happened. “Wow that girl hugged me so she must like me…then again (insert other girl name here) hugged me and she didn’t like me so maybe I’m wrong”

In math class, to understand the problem, do you need the *general idea-conceptual thinking *or *examples-concrete thinking*?

*Also, Ni and Te are linear.
Ti and Ne are non-linear. 
*

Dominant sensors also tend to be linear thinkers. But remember the difference between Ni and Si is Ni is about conceptual experience and Si is about concrete experience. So Ni wants the general idea, not a whole lot of detail, just the general impression. Si wants the details and the specifics. For example my INFJ friend is better at geometry-conceptual math and I, an ISTJ, am better at algebra- concrete math. Me and her are both linear thinkers. She has dominant Ni-linear. But since I am a dominant sensor and use auxiliary Te, I am a concrete thinker and think more linear than she does. 

So a Si-Te user is going to be even more linear than a Si-Ti user and a
Ni-Te user is going to be more linear than a Ni-Ti user. 

Here is how I use my Si taken from me and Robert2928's conversation: 

“Dominant Introverted Sensing (Si)
Directing energy inwardly and storing the facts and details of both external reality and internal thoughts and experiences.

Current Sensory Experience: What is currently happening in reality.
*Trigger*: Reality prompts you to access your internal sensory catalog
Cataloged sensory experience: What has happened prior and thoughts and experiences are tied to that

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.
“I see a yellow bird *that reminds me of* my own bird. I have three birds but this birds body stature *reminds me of* my cockatiel; bossy, confident, grumpy, loving, etc. Looking at the yellow bird *swells up my love* for my cockatiel.”

You are saying “This bird feels like my bird” but “This bird has physical characteristics similar to (insert former sensory experience here)” I’d argue you are perceiving information in real time (aka the bird) and comparing it to internalized data (aka your bird).” A Se user would say “It’s a yellow bird.” Se users “just see what is in front of them. A Si user will likely compare what they currently see with an internal catalog or similar sensory experiences.” 

Now to the next one which upon further inspection could be a combination of Introverted Sensing (Si) and Introverted Feeling (Fi) 

“When I first got the mug I noticed it felt smooth, cold, silver, it’s made out of metal... My cup *symbolizes* my faith in helping others. The black and white flowers painted on the cup *represent* blooming into a fresh new start. The black lowercase words “be the change” *symbolize* that anyone can help make a positive change in someone’s life. The images of the birds on mug *represent* people rising out of their struggles. The different angles of the birds *symbolize* different strategies of breaking free from poverty. The different outlines of the birds (clean in lines, definable feathers) *represent* the difficulty of the poverty. The visibility of the bird’s heads, beaks, tails, and certain wings *represent* how visible a person’s struggles can be.”

Now the dude who said Ne was closer than the first guy in that you COULD be placing possibilities on an object however your wording is not that of “what if” or “what could be” it is a statement of “what is.” (to you) You’ve internalized this cup’s physical details (perceiving function) and what it means to you (judging function). That’s what I think anyway.”


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

@ArmchairCommie The difference between Si and Ni is quite big. While they're both internal, Si focuses on the known (past experience, memories) while Ni focuses on future. Si is more comfortable repeating the same thing over and over again and following what they already know. Ni doesn't care about that, Ni aims for a future goal that it wants to achieve (sees specific steps what needs to be done). My INTJ friend once told me that whenever she decides to build a career in any field, she sees all the steps she needs to do to make herself successful in 2 years and most of it involves her doing new things. Si on the other hand would prefer to follow already walked path and do the things they already know worked either in the past.

Si is more down to earth while Ni is more abstract. Si is about details while Ni is about the big picture. Ni gets hunches that they cannot explain, Si judges the future steps mainly based on visible criteria. To give an example in public situation, Ni would intuitively know what others feel when they talk while Si would deduce it based on their movement or expression.

In other words, Si focuses on the concrete and proven. Ni is all about impressions and the ideal goal/path.

Which of those sounds more like you?


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## ArmchairCommie (Dec 27, 2015)

@Kitty23 and @Prada

Okay, I'm convinced now that I am an ISTJ. I love looking at little random details and little random facts with the big picture coming in latter. Also I am definitely more focused on the past (Si) then the future (Ni) as I always look towards my past experience whenever I am wondering what to do. I like repetition very much as it is so much easier to do than trying to forge my own path and likely failing at it. I would like to think that my thinking is non-linear, but considering that I can't access the inner workings of someone else's mind I have no clue whether or not that is a fact or just pure fiction. Most likely I just thought I was intuitive because of the fact that I know so much about some subjects, such as math, that to some people it would seem like I am drawing grandiose conclusions out of nowhere. But really I always try to support my thinking based on a logical progression of facts and I have no special ability that lets me just magically say whether or not something is right. Once again, thank you very much for helping me realize my type, knowing that I am an ISTJ is a very comforting fact to me now that I don't need to worry so much about what in the world I am doing in life.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I use Si, but I still think about the future a lot and love planning for the future. I am very goal oriented which comes from my strong Te. So I personally think ISTJ's come off more future oriented than ISFJ's. And like you I like to be smart lol. So My vote for you is ISTJ. If you have any more questions just let know


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