# No Social Life whatsoever, Feeling Numb



## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

I honestly don't know how it all came down to all, but lately I feel as though I've given up on the one thing I've valued for my whole life: Life.

Now, I've had difficulty expressing my emotions in the past, but I'll try to best clearly state them. In my past, as a minority living in California, I was under the illusion that I actually had a social life. From kindergarten to high school, I met and had a large group of acquaintances. I thought of them as actual 'friends', or people who I could relate to. While I did know a large number of people, I knew that in my heart I was more of an introverted person who could never really 'fit in' with any group of friends I knew. 

High school was when I started to see the illusion I was under. I'll best describe it in 3 words: Ghost, Wanderer, and Twofaced. Despite knowing many acquaintances, I felt as though I lived as a ghost, or rather, while I desired to know about other people and how they were doing, it's as though I never really thought anyone felt my presence. I think the fact that I've always never took a side in matters or was always reserved & unemotional contributed to my acquaintances either unintentionally ignoring me or not knowing I was really there, hence the term 'ghost. 

As for wanderer, that is best explained by taking on a role as a nomad. As stated before, I knew a lot of friends in numerous groups. What I always did was that in order to check up on everybody to see how they're doing, I weaved across different friend groups, always sticking around temporarily in each group and never really settling into one particular group to find that social circle I've longed within my lifetime. It's as though I was in an endless journey to look for that 'one' person or group. Hence, why I moved as a 'nomad'.

Finally comes being two-faced, and I think this one has hit me the hardest. As stated before, I showed my polite, friendly, and kind nature. You could say I was dependent on people: wanting to be with friends, hanging out, having conversations with them, etc. *However*, that's only one side of me. The other side of me, which I never showed to anyone, not even to my family, was my more negative side. There were plenty of times when I felt depressed, lonely, detached from society, disconnected, lost, and many more. What's even worse is that this was ALL inside. I didn't open up to anybody, kept these negative emotions bottled up, believing that in such a society as this, that everyone wanted to see your positive side. It's as though I was always in a conversation with myself: I tried to find the root of what caused such feelings as these, but felt that they were only temporary. What's even crazier is that I've longed to express or at share these feelings I had with _someone_, but that I've been more or less afraid to do.

Now these are such feelings & emotions I've encountered before college came. Only this time, while in college, *everything* was worse. It's like a sudden typhoon that arrived out of the blue. More to be explained in next post.


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## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

First year at college, I felt that I could change for the better, that I'd finally find that social circle I've lived for so far, that I'd finally be rid of the illusion of the social life I'd been under within my past self. 

Fall quarter: I was placed into a suite of 12 suitemates. I took the initiative of introducing myself to both my roommates & suitemates. Everyone seemed pretty cool & interesting, especially since we were a diverse suite filled with people of different ethnicities. Even the house advisors of my suite seemed pretty cool during the move-in day of my college. Living on-campus, I sticked to my dorm most of the quarter, desiring to getting to know my suitemates there and doing most of my work there. I didn't join any fraternities whatsoever though I did join a religious club to getting to know new friends, since I was the only person from my high school who attended the college I'm currently in. However, my feelings of being depressed & lonely started to kick in. Desiring to improve my social life, I stepped out of my dorm and hanging around at libraries, dining halls, and other on-campus areas to hanging out with the new friends I made at the religious club. As an engineer, I knew that social life was a must in maintaining a balance between studies & sleep. However, as a person of a minority, I began to feel as though I didn't 'fit in' with the club I was hanging around. Moreover, I was questioning who exactly I could hang out with, who I could open up & share my life & feelings to. Fall quarter ends with me feeling slightly satisfied with college, but still skeptical of the later quarters to come.

Winter quarter: I thought this one to be the worst. Again, I joined a few more religious clubs, but with me being one of the minorities there, felt that I could not only not 'fit in', but that I thought no one really took an interest in me. While I was put into a small group for the club, I was unsure as to whether this group could the social circle I was looking for. To expedite my search for that social circle, I took the initiative of trying to set up hangouts & meetups with a set number of acquaintances within this new club, but only a few people came around to just chilling & having one-on-one conversations with me. However, I started to notice something different: among the conversations I had with my acquaintances, most have been where I put more input into sharing the past experiences I've had in high school, especially on the discussion of feeling lonely & depressed. Along with that, few, if any, of the remaining conversation I've had were about how both people were doing regarding their lives, which is the sort of conversations (or perhaps smalltalk) I desired to have with friends. During this quarter I was uncertain as to whether I still believed in God, whether I was really in the right group, whether I was happy with my overall experience so far, etc. Unsatisfied with my college experience, my depressed feelings soon affected my academic performance, in which I began to do poorly with 5 rigorous courses as a freshman. In fact, it was this quarter that I considered transferring to a different college. But towards the end of this quarter, I found a church where I was put into the service for college students. Looking at this church, I finally thought "Wait, this could be it! THIS could actually be it!" I'll admit: the first few weeks I wasn't sure how it'd go down, but these guys seemed pretty chill, fun, outgoing, and deep. After each service was hanging around one of the local restaurants where we normally sticked with each other. I think they call these outgoings 'fellowships'. On-campus I even saw plenty of these people too! I thought spring quarter would actually turn out for the better.

Spring quarter: You'd think this quarter would be the best, but no. This was the absolute worst. While I continued to go out to church, I started to notice how it was mostly the other people who conversed with each other, with me left being the quiet one. It looked as though these guys could relate to each other better than I could, and it felt as though with them having similar interests, they set up one-on-one conversations & small hangouts with each other. Not being current with social media and popular culture, I still thought that there was chance that this church group could be the one. I went to all of the events & activities the church group had, but I still saw myself being the kind yet quiet person that I was. 

I think this quarter was where I really tried to be a people pleaser. I attemped to set up hangouts at local beaches & restaurants where anyone in the church group was free to come, but that in the end, no one really came around to hanging out. I guessed the fact that I didn't have a car factored into that, but then I saw myself at the lowest point in my whole life. Despite all my efforts to have conversations with them via Facebook (especially) or face-to-face, initiate hangouts, push myself into cliques that were within the church group, all that lay before me were failures, failures, and failures. So, I did what I thought anyone would deem best, I stopped going to service. Instead, I took long walks across local beaches, dwelling upon my experiences at college. I thought about the scenery that surrounded me. I even explored the downtown area by my college just to wander around and discover new restaurants my friends hadn't known about. And you know how I felt? I felt happy, satisfied, and even glad that I did these solitary activities. I was so arrogant into thinking that with this loner life I have, I wouldn't & will not need anyone to hang around with in order to socialize, find close friends, and ultimately have fun with them. 

What's even worse is that with my classes normally ending around the afternoon, I was left with the rest of the day to do whatever. I didn't have a job, which would've helped kill time. So I had to do the next thing: either wander around the whole campus alone, explore off-campus, be alone in dining halls, or even take long naps in my dorm, which didn't help with my academics. 

It was this point in time in the spring quarter that I felt emotionally numb. In spite of all my efforts to reach out to potential friends, to put myself out there for them, to desire just a speck of a bond/friendship, it all backfired. Whenever I wanted to hang with this person or that person, I always assumed that he/she was either busy, already had their group of friends to hang out with, or didn't want to hang out with me. It's as though I essentially felt isolated, out of the loop with people. I wanted to hang with this or that particular group, but once again, assumed they were already elsewhere. So I just didn't care. I stopped asking around. Didn't see what the point was in continuing to struggle for something that seemed impossible to find. Though I had these thoughts within my mind, the whole "two-faced mask' concept came in again: while showing my positive, caring, gentle nature, I hid these feelings of detachment, loneliness, sadness, anger, confusion. All this led me to begin laying around my bed in my dorm and think "For what purpose do I keep living? Why do I keep living? Who do I live for? Who am I?"

I've even took it upon myself to combat these feelings I've had. I've visited a psychologist to help me with finding out why I'm feeling these emotions within me, how I can ultimately accept myself for who I am, and even read a few self-help books regarding the anxiety & depressed feelings I've had and I've come across a few key points that I've set goals on combating:

My tendency of social awkardness; fear of rejection; fear of public speaking; fear of social situations; PTSD; avoidant behavior; social comparison; worrying about others (I put others before myself), etc.

I apologize for the long posts I've created here. It's like what I stated before, with having no one to really open up or share these experiences I've been holding within my heart. But I am really in such a broken & confused condition that I'm urgently seeking help from anyone here who can provide any advice.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

I know how that feels bro *hugs*

Well, I am not usually comfortable with hugs, but yeah, at this moment, you really need a genuine friend who can really understand you.

You see, I am an extrovert, I usually hang out with the extroverts because its easier for me to fit in. I usually notices introverts like you sitting at the back corner of the classroom all the time, either sleeping or just staring blankly. The problem is how can I approach them? It feels hard to approach any introverts from my perspective.

The problem arise when both extroverts and introverts are unable to approach each other. Its hard because we don't understand each other's way of social very well. I have once tried to approach the introverts, they just go with small talks and then almost immediately spaced out, which makes it really hard for any social sparks. The most important key here I think is the chemistry.

I don't have the best solution to your problem, but there is only two ways:

1) Look for someone who shares common interest with you. This usually creates social sparks because both of you clearly understands the subject and has the common knowledge of it. In my case, I have found an introverted artist, who shares a common interest of creating stories and showing them off to everyone with me. Until today, both of us are possibly the best friend forever.

2) Learn some meditation at the moment while you feel lonely. It helps to stabilize your emotion a little bit. Don't over-think everything, and treat things as simply as possible. Maybe for once after you stop asking yourself the world's question, you might be able to find the answer? Live your life a bit more simple, open your heart a little bit more, and be more accepting.

If you are an introvert, doing these would only do more harm than good to you:

1) Force yourself into any social settings. If it doesn't feels right to you, don't do it. Don't do it for the sake of purely socializing. This can be devastating to your own emotion, and you might experience rejection from everyone around you. Just be who you are and wait patiently.

2) To think that you are the only one in this world. NO, YOU ARE NOT! There are always people who are the same as you are, understands who you are, you just have to keep on searching, and wait. Be more patience, and the time will pay off.

P.S: Or you could get a pet, it might help you to relieve social stress. Or, start drawing your emotion out, so trying to draw a nice drawing might help you to kill your time. Find something you can pour your expression into.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

Most people go through this type of thing at some point in their lives, don't worry too much about it, like all things this too will pass with a little effort. For fear of public speaking I'd join your local Toastmaster's club, best place I know to take someone from shaking in their shoes in front of a handful of people to being a confident speaker in front of a large crowd. Could help with the socialization issue as well.

One thing that helped me was coming to the realization that with people, playing the crowd is usually not the best bet. Trying to talk to everyone at the table will leave you with no one that you really got close to at an event, better to pick a few people and talk to them. Relationships are formed one person at a time, and if you hope to have a relationship with someone, then you need to show that you care.

Click is a good book for describing how to initiate relationships.
ShanePurnell.com | Summary of Click: The Magic of Instant Connections


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## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

I sincerely thank you both for the suggestions you've given me here. To be honest, with all the alone time I've had with myself, I've come to think that I may have over-thought on some instances regarding the issues here that I've encountered.

For one part, regarding for people I didn't know or didn't know as much, (i.e seeing a suitemate/undergraduate in an elevator), I was always the one who not only greeted them first but normally asked how their day was and what they planned to do in the future for 'said' holiday or break. You could say that while trying to improve my social skills that I was in progress of really trying to gain that genuine interest in people.

Actually, regarding the matter of people who share common interests, I think I've stumbled upon a roadblock for that. See, for one thing, I'm under the belief that I may have already found those few friends that have particular interests of mine. And those few friends apparently look to be my suitemates & roommates. Though, like I stated before regarding the roadblock, I sense that they have already bonded further with each other via planned activities, realtalk for long nights, common classes with each other, etc. And I believe that this was all while I was on the search for that social circle outside my dorm. It's difficult to tell whether I may have been blind this whole time into thinking that my suitemates were the actual social circle I've been looking for, but it's honestly difficult to tell if that's true. 

I think another thing that I may have been "out of the loop" is on people's comfort with various mediums of communication. Unfortunately, I think one of the crucial mistakes I've done on the matter of bonding with people is not exchanging phone numbers. I mean, it's...odd. Practically almost *all* of the acquaintances I've gotten to know I try to both maintain contact & initiate conversations via Facebook. There's really only a set number of acquaintances that I exchanged phone numbers with, but I've begun to see a few issues when attempting to socialize via Facebook. It's hard to explain, but it's like, but I feel as though I'm socially "out of the loop". In other words, I'm not up-to-date with all the gossip & conversations people are having via Facebook. I try to gain knowledge on what their interests are, but again, it's difficult deciphering what they know exactly.

And _that_ is exactly where a major issue comes on hand: gossip. I don't talk gossip. It's not that I can't do it, but I just normally don't like talking about other 'said' people. And seeing that the majority of people gossip, with me not talking much on those matters, it all comes back to be being quiet throughout the time, hence not being able to socially interact with people.

After always trying to place blame for my failures upon the people who I've tried to hangout with & bond, my mind has come to quite a few realizations:

"It is not the people who are putting these problems upon you but you yourself." I see that regarding my social skills, I'm not as experienced as my acquaintances might be, but it's *really* difficult trying to discover what exactly am I doing wrong in attempts to bonding with people. I've repeatedly looked at the approaches I've taken to inviting acquaintances and pondered whether they may have sensed those approaches to be, say, "desperate" or "said at the wrong time" in that sort of manner (i.e place an open invite for all to come on the weekend before midterms). I don't think that I give off that aura of desperateness, but I can't know what others think. 

"I've always stated how available I am for others who want to talk and everything." But I think I'm realizing that that too is a possible sign of desperateness. Therefore, I've looked into making myself busy in the future such that people will know that I am busy just as they are.

"I've taken the initiative into attempting to bond with people." I know that I shouldn't expect _everyone_ to being available to hangout. I also know that I may not be the exact person people are looking to be friends with. But honestly, with all the failures I've encountered and the effort I've put, I've begun to realize that maybe I've been trying to hang out with the wrong crowd. If not religious clubs, then perhaps volunteer organizations, or associations related to engineering (it's my major). 

Along with that, patience is another trait that I've vigorously tried to hold on to throughout this year. I think it's the fact that I have high expectations regarding the matter of finding my social circle, y'know? 

I think another key issue that I stumbled upon is how I spread myself too thin my joining various clubs for this year. It's as though in order to find that social circle, I went to events that each club had, thus not devoting quality time to only one of them. This problem I've recognized and attempted to solve by only sticking to the church that I found, but even with that, I still feel as though, given the amount of quality time I put into the church, I still feel as though cliques have already formed beforehand such that everyone has their own friend group to hang out with. 

But seeing that I've come to prefer a small number of friends, I believe you guys are right in that with given time (hopefully), that social circle may even come naturally to me. Along with that, I've set myself to exploring particular interests other people may have as well, along with digging deeper into my own interests, seeing as though I have a hard time prolonging conversations with acquaintances. As for forcing myself into socializing, you are right Nikorasu Chan in that it is best to relax and keep it natural. Meditation sounds calming & relaxing to me, and is another activity I shall pursue soon as well! roud:

I do agree with you on the point regarding the interactions among introverts & extroverts. In fact, it might be odd saying this, but while I have known that my nature seemed to relate that to an introvert, I've considered the possibility that I could be an ambivert as well. For one thing, I think it's the emphasis, or say codependency, I have towards people that throughout the 3 quarters in college I've continually desired to be in a small friend group. 

bluekitdon, I thank you deeply for your suggestions. It's odd though, Toastmaster's Club is something that has sounded oddly familiar! I can't remember who exactly has told me about it in the past, but it one club that I look forward to checking out. Thanks for the book as well. In fact, I'm interested in gaining knowledge on the condition & state of relationships, and how it is for everyone.

The one question I have regarding all of this is this: how do you know when you've found your social circle? I know it's the shared interests you have with your friends, but is it when you've hung out with your social circle for quite a while? Is it that group in which you confide your feelings to? Or perhaps those close friends in which you not only relate to, but that you go through 'said' number of experiences with them (i.e hiking or taking a difficult final)?


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

Infinitii said:


> The one question I have regarding all of this is this: how do you know when you've found your social circle? I know it's the shared interests you have with your friends, but is it when you've hung out with your social circle for quite a while? Is it that group in which you confide your feelings to? Or perhaps those close friends in which you not only relate to, but that you go through 'said' number of experiences with them (i.e hiking or taking a difficult final)?


I probably do this a bit differently than most, but I have specific people that I spend time with on different activities. For example one of my best friends I almost never see unless I have car or other mechanical problems. He's the friend that knows how to fix it, and even when I know how to fix it myself I'll call him over because he enjoys helping out and it gives us time together. I have some friends that I run with, others I play soccer with, and a couple guys from church that I bounce hard personal topics off of. My wife is one of my best friends as well, but she wouldn't want to be out working on the car with me. Maybe there is someone that can do all those things in one, but I have yet to find them.

My suggestion is find people that enjoy doing the things you do, and focus on doing those things that you both enjoy together. Don't worry if they don't enjoy playing your favorite game, just find someone else to do that with you. If they don't care to talk about deep philosophical issues, then don't...find someone else that will and try to figure out something that you do enjoy doing with this person. If you don't have anything in common with someone, then just be polite and leave it at acquaintances, no reason to spend a lot of your time trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

I think you might be INFJ based on your post, so your craving for close relationship should be understandable. INFJ can be ambivert as I recall.

Well good news is, I am also an ambivert, used to look a hell lot like introvert in my high school, I am now a confident extrovert in my college. I can give you a thing or two about how I found my confidence in my social circle.

It might sound surprising, but I don't share any common interest with my college friends. We just simply hang out and that's about it. Each of us are know for different specialties. One guy is known as a big-mouth extremely outgoing extrovert (ESFP), two guy (ISFPs) known as twins (although they are not brothers, they are just together all the time), one guy who is extremely rich and likes to show-off his latest gadgets (ESTP), one extremely calm but intelligent INTJ, and many others who are unique on their own.

The key to how I find myself fit into this social circle is actually to be myself. I am very much like a leader and business-man type of icon within that circle. I may find myself struggling with maths, but I am extremely confident in presentations and leading them. I am constantly teased as a 'business-man', but I think that is fine, because I am very different compared to others, and that is how I am being accepted into this social circle.

We may not share the same interest, but we share our time together, just hanging out and have fun. I didn't bothered to go for deep conversation, and just let myself in the moment.

And I can appear in three states whenever I am in social scene:

1) Introverted, deep thinking. This is usually because I have some interesting topic to think about, like RTS vs TBS games.
2) Extroverted, crazy. This is usually I have some extremely funny jokes to make fun of, and I can act like a total asshole too, just for the lolz.
3) Serious, directed leader. This is usually for presentation or the topic I cared about, like theories, concepts, or to give my serious opinion on something. I am extremely brutal and honest during this time.

However, I still consider my artist friend to be my one and only best friend forever, because we both still shares the same common interest together. And that is how I find myself fit into the social scene.

As for you not keeping yourself updated with gossips on Facebook or getting each other's phone number, I got ya. I don't do these silly things unless it is something important. And you as INFJ, I don't think you need to do that anyway. These things are not for you, they are more common with sensors.

So my best advice here is: Just be yourself.


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## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

I see. Both of you guys are right. I mean, to be honest, looking back at this year, I think this year was really the one in which I tried to be a people pleaser for everyone.
@bluekitdon 

Exactly!! Those are the people who I've been eagerly looking for my whole life! I think one central issue with it all is basically trying to find out what this or that person does. I always find myself stuck just either asking how someone's day was or what that person did for his/her weekend. It's as though I'm afraid of the "how" part of asking people of their interests during conversations. I think that's one of the major reasons I have such trouble with conversations: I don't get anywhere. "You want to get to know this person but you're just simply afraid" is what my mind's saying to me. And I think it's this reason why I've looked up a few sites, especially Succeed Socially.com | A Free Guide On How To Improve Social Skills For Adults, in order to find some "step-by-step" way of conversing with people. I think that is one part of how my mind works: always going by logic in terms of either going step-by-step or making a structured list. And I know that in life, it doesn't work this way, but... I think this is where my perfectionist attitude comes in, in which I want to know a certain of saying this or that in order to progress towards a goal. 

Another thing I believe I've encountered is my tendency to always want to have say, deep/lengthy conversations with people. I know that can't be the case for everyone, but I think it's also my trouble with smalltalk (remember, I'm not current with social media or pop culture) or my unwillingness to gossip that prevents me from going anywhere. And I think it's these problems that I'm always within this cycle of conversing with myself: while getting to know more interests other people have (i.e anime, architecture, music, cooking, food, movies) and knowing who talks what, that's when I get stuck, like, I'm always in the sidelines or observing other people interact/talk with each other. Goodness, I never knew I was this socially inept. :sad:
@Nikorasu Chan

Hmm.. INFJ? Well, I could be. I mean, though I really want to consider myself equal between Ne & Ni, I have to side with Ni, since I'm in state of "What am I doing wrong? Something must be missing that I may have missed upon." I really alternate between Se & Si, since I have a tendency for sentimental gifts and that Se drives me to be outgoing & adventurous (big part of my life to explore). For Ti & Te, though application is always a good thing to have concern over, I essentially do want to know, which I think played a factor into me posting this thread, to just know exactly "what is this" or "why is it that". Fe & Fi is hard to say though, since I really do exhibit Fe in this thread (desperation, perhaps?). While I may not know one's exact feelings at this instance, I really do strive for one's personal identity. Hmm... I thinking looking at the present & the future, I could be a growing Fi, since I 'm essentially desiring this sort of balance within myself & others. As far as I'm concerned, pretty much few or none of my friends know the negative feelings I'm feeling now, though I desire to care for their needs, be it emotional or mental. Plus, I would love to work closely with a few dear people, and I do value negotiating in terms of setting up something for which everyone can be comfortable with. Hmm...you may be right. INFJ huh? It does make sense when I think about it.

I think communication is another area where I'm low in with all this. Like you stated as well, I'm not so updated into Facebook, gossip, or simply having _everyone's_ phone number. It's like I'm in this sort of mindset in which I see those as somewhat a waste of time for me. Not that it's a waste of time for others, but for my case, I just don't see much value in keeping myself up-to-date with the latest trends. That's not to say I won't be completely out of the loop in that matter. However, looking at the vast majority of friends talking about this or that, music especially, it's as though my mind suddenly wants to follow up with them. 

All in all, it's sort of like a race the way I see it: the tortoise and the hare. I'm under this mentality that practically all of my friends is the hare and that I'm the tortoise. So, in reality, for everyone's life, is it truly finding those who are the tortoises as well, or rather, like you said, friends who you spend time with? Cause quality time with friends is essentially what I hold dear at this moment. In fact, it's what I'm desperately seeking in college. It's just... with everyone with each other, I know I'm supposed to be patient and all, but given the limited we humans essentially have (60-90 years on average), the whole "not wanting to waste time" mentality kicks in again. I...I just feel stuck, like I can't stop speculating which friendships are actually what I'm looking for, not superficial ones. I just don't know how to proceed.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

Ghost, Wanderer, Two-faced. These are things I also felt in high school. Yet my experience has been different from yours-- it wasn't a social life I desired (being involved with groups, the community, having people to talk to and network, knowing what's going on, being in the loop, etc., the things you seem to be concerned with, which sound like very Fe-related concerns) but close, meaningful connections with individuals, knowing a person intimately and being known intimately. I don't know your type but I feel that is an important distinction that should be made. From what you have been focusing on in your posts and your efforts, you seem to be striving for those Fe-related things-- but is that what you truly want? You have been very thoughtful and reflective about your efforts and the results, and what they mean to you, so I'm just posing this question as a starting point for your own thinking.

I think in any situation, being true to yourself will bring about what you want. For me personally, it would be exhausting and nearly impossible to maintain effort in involving myself in things for the sake of meeting people (this may not be the case for you!). I would rather focus on myself, and invest myself into things I'm really interested in, and let the people who truly share those things gravitate towards me and come to me not_ because _I needed someone and I was looking for them, but because they wanted to. Very few of the things I like to do involve socializing-- and yet I've been able to form deep bonds with people over them, and forming even yet deeper bonds by enjoying time together and opening up about the lesser known parts of myself. I personally have a very difficult time with the idea of trying to show interest in people that I don't... take interest in. I become friends with this person, or friends with these people because I want to be friends specifically with them, not because I want friends. (This was the problem in high school... I wasn't very interested in others! Now I go to art college and there's more people to relate to, but I never force it.)



Infinitii said:


> The one question I have regarding all of this is this: how do you know when you've found your social circle? I know it's the shared interests you have with your friends, but is it when you've hung out with your social circle for quite a while? Is it that group in which you confide your feelings to? Or perhaps those close friends in which you not only relate to, but that you go through 'said' number of experiences with them (i.e hiking or taking a difficult final)?


As for this question, my end goal was not a social circle, but I have found one in college nonetheless. My feelings about individual relationships and social circles is the same. It's not measured by quantity necessarily as much as quality. Do I feel comfortable with this person/these people? Do I have fun? Am I nervous? Can I be genuinely myself or do I feel like I have to put on an act for them? (Being "true to yourself" does not necessarily mean wearing your heart on your sleeve or showing every thought/feeling that occurs to you. But I can tell when I feel stifled or like I'm not comfortable just being how I am). Sometimes I do check "are WE having fun?" as opposed to only "am I having fun?", but sometimes the former criteria causes anxiety-- anxiety that is often unnecessary because I can only control so much of how other people feel and ultimately it's kinda weird to be responsible for other people to that extent, at least for me. It's a matter of balance in this case.

Some friends I confide in, others I just chill and enjoy time with them. Every friend is a different person and based on trial and error I know with whom to do what. My ENFJ friend will always listen-- I know this because we have confided in each other before and it felt so natural and safe. My INTP friend is nice to be around because we share interests and a sense of humor and can be silly around each other.

My circle (two INFPs, an INTP, an ISTJ, and me, the ISFP) came together much like the Earth became a planet covered in life. There was little within my control-- there was just the right ingredients at the right times, and five people who wanted to be friends with each other. I did my part, and now I'm just 20% of the picture. The circle came together because everyone wanted to put in their 20%. I had no doing in their shares. So I couldn't tell you how to find or make one, it just happens. 

tl;dr this is a very individual perspective and experience, and also an incredibly disorganized and lengthy post written at 3am, but I talked a whole lot about myself in the hopes that there would be at least one thing helpful to you.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

Infinitii said:


> Exactly!! Those are the people who I've been eagerly looking for my whole life! I think one central issue with it all is basically trying to find out what this or that person does. I always find myself stuck just either asking how someone's day was or what that person did for his/her weekend. It's as though I'm afraid of the "how" part of asking people of their interests during conversations.


I often figure out what people like doing simply because I also like doing those things and meet them at some club meeting or something like that. For example, some of the people I run with I met at the local road runners club. We both like to run, so check that off the list. Anything else is just a bonus.

For conversation, here is the general line of conversation I take (read it in some book and adapted it, might have been from the one I mentioned earlier in the thread).

1. Work - ask a few questions about what they do, then offer a few sentences on what I do. Maybe major if they are in college?
2. Hobbies - ask a few questions about what they like to do outside of work, then offer a few sentences on what I do.
3. Hometown/personal life - ask a few questions about where they are from, where they live now, any kids, anything I enjoy doing, then offer a few sentences or a little short story from my life if it fits the situation.

Look for similarities in these responses. Any similarities then you can expand the conversation, hopefully by the end of those three topics you've found something to expand on. Try not to get into debates over differences with people in your first meeting or two, just focus on similarities. Good luck.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

I think you should read this first because I still do not understand the fine distinctions between NP and NJ as of yet, mainly because of the Ni and Ne. But I will take a guess that you might be INFP due to your constant checking with your emotions/values internally (thus dominant).

INFJ vs. INFP | Prelude Character Analysis

I have even switched over to ENTP just yesterday after almost a year sticking with ENTJ. There is still so much to learn about MBTI.

Great thing about MBTI is that they tell you what is your strength and weakness, and also provide you suggestions on how to improve yourself. Take a closer look at MBTI, maybe the change should start with your own weakness first.

From my guess, your dominant function is hard to distinct by yourself, but it can be clearly seen used frequently by yourself from other person's perspective. This could be due to you being very confident with your dominant function to the point you don't realize it is there. While all the way towards the inferior function, is where you will need a lot of energy in order to use it, but you feel comfortable with it and wanting to do more, thus it is easier to see it yourself.

If anything, I am very interested in helping out introverts to become less depressed due to not having any social interactions. It's sad that many keep things to themselves, I could have otherwise helped them out. There is also a case where I accidentally switched my focus to another person, which I think may have hurt some of them (because I see their reaction).

Anyway, yes, life is short, but short stories are always sweeter and memorable than longer ones. Enjoy your life, treat things simply. Best of luck to you 

P.S: GAH, I can't help but wish to be there to hug you close tightly!


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## PurpleApple (Mar 11, 2013)

You sound like me minus the two-faced thing.

I've started going to therapy and I think we're finally getting around to the root of my issues connecting to people. It's been helpful. I suggest it if you can afford it/have good insurance.

I'd also say the livelong feelings you're describing seem to be a pretty universal INFP thing. You sound like an INFP to me. MBTI has to do with functions. You can be introverted and seem very extroverted and outgoing.. you can also be a P and be organized and punctual.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

PurpleApple said:


> I've started going to therapy and I think we're finally getting around to the root of my issues connecting to people. It's been helpful. I suggest it if you can afford it/have good insurance.


Oh, yeah. I second this. I neglected to mention therapy in my own post but I've also had experience with it and I think it can be a great tool for addressing this kind of problem if it's within your means. Someone qualified to listen and give helpful food for thought and perspective, as well as a safe sounding board. (It's only helpful so long as: a) the therapist and you are a good match, if not, find one that is, and b) you use the counseling experience as a tool to help yourself and sustain that effort, aka, keep going, be engaged, talk about how you feel, and take the input you find helpful.)


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## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

@kittenmogu Oh dear, I think you've hit the nail on the head of my misunderstanding of my wants/needs! It's weird the way I think about it. I'm sure much of my Fe-related concerns must derive from comparing myself socially amongst others. It's as though I've been living blindly as to who I am and what I cherish. What's even more ridiculous on my part is how I've set the "quality > quantity" ideal as one of my personal values but that I've unconsciously conflicted against it. I believe you're in the aspect on encountering individual relationships & social circles naturally. Thinking about it, I do feel as though I somehow put some "force" into developing intimate friendships. 

Trust me, your post has been more than helpful into my situation via a different perspective! roud:
@bluekitdon



bluekitdon said:


> I often figure out what people like doing simply because I also like doing those things and meet them at some club meeting or something like that. For example, some of the people I run with I met at the local road runners club. We both like to run, so check that off the list. Anything else is just a bonus.
> 
> For conversation, here is the general line of conversation I take (read it in some book and adapted it, might have been from the one I mentioned earlier in the thread).
> 
> ...


So that's what I've been overlooking in regards to social situations! Similarities & differences. It's not to say I didn't take notice of those, but rather that I've been so focused as to what sets him/her apart from me in terms of hobbies, stance toward different issues, etc. In other words, the "difference" part of it all. 
@Nikorasu Chan



Nikorasu Chan said:


> I think you should read this first because I still do not understand the fine distinctions between NP and NJ as of yet, mainly because of the Ni and Ne. But I will take a guess that you might be INFP due to your constant checking with your emotions/values internally (thus dominant).
> 
> INFJ vs. INFP | Prelude Character Analysis
> 
> ...


Hmm... you could be right. Looking at the article, I do resonate with several of the values for the INFP, though I do value a few of the INFJ's own as well. However, I'm still pretty confused on the whole dominant/auxilary factor into those cognitive functions. You could say that it's difficult for me to decipher what "one" function I ultimately take preference to. (Or rather, that I have to truly understand what each function is and how its used.) It especially goes for the Fe vs Fi conflict. Like, while these desires I currently have are Fe-related, it''s more that I look to _both_ myself & others. (I.e fully develop & maintain my personal identity & help others develop theirs as well.) Same goes for Ne vs Ni as well. If I had a clear & extensive explanation as to how each function is, I'd move one step closer to identifying my type.

Maybe I should look further into what functions are indeed dominant, auxiliary, and inferior such that I achieve greater understanding upon that aspect & even for MBTI as well! Upon the matter of helping other introverts as well, I recognize that as well. In fact, I found it odd, but somehow insightful, how I've recently referred to my past experiences of loneliness & depression into explaining my ever-changing state of minds to others in order to help not only open up but refer (at their own pace) to their experiences as well. I think it's that which is helping me become _vulnerable_ with others, although I have no idea what it means to be truly vulnerable with others (open-minded, empathetic, attentive?).

No lie, I could honestly need a hug given the state that I'm in. Speaking of hugs, I think I've stumbled upon that physical aspect of relationships/friendships with others. I've seen as to how some are comfortable with hugs or pats on the back and how some aren't comfortable. (Plus, I have this odd sensation of giving out too many high-fives with friends. Always thought it was a good thing, but looking at the repetitiveness for it, I'm starting to think otherwise. Haha :laughing:
@PurpleApple

Already have begun on therapy! I must say, it is an experience I misunderstood it to be, since I was certainly skeptical on what it could offer. It does bring a new light into overlooked issues or undiscovered problems I have. Oh my, INFP? Hmm... though I'd like to say that it'd be my type, I know for sure that I'm uncertain as to whether I fully resonate with that type. (I like to consider other aspects of the other types to see what I can identify with as well.)

To be honest, I think I've hit some sort of "sink or swim" deal at this moment. Like, it's either "DO IT" or simply don't. I feel as though, given the extensive amount of time I've put into research on the aspects of life in relation to oneself & others, causes of loneliness & depression, social anxiety and whatnot, I'm in this state of being self-aware but either not doing anything whatsoever about it or not _fully understanding_ what I'm dealing with, especially for emotions, judgments, ways of thinking, etc. 

I don't like the way I'm rambling, but just to be blunt, I feel as though I need a push. Like, I need someone, be it a friend or family member, to intuitively know & understand what exactly I'm dealing with (personality issues, anxiety, etc), how they can see & somehow know it (via body language, my reasoning, or finding meaning within words), and being blunt & strict in telling me what to do. Only problem is, with practically having found no one but myself to do all this (and knowing that it is only I who can control my actions), I'm just not sure whether I'm ready to take the plunge.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

Infinitii said:


> Hmm... you could be right. Looking at the article, I do resonate with several of the values for the INFP, though I do value a few of the INFJ's own as well. However, I'm still pretty confused on the whole dominant/auxilary factor into those cognitive functions. You could say that it's difficult for me to decipher what "one" function I ultimately take preference to. (Or rather, that I have to truly understand what each function is and how its used.) It especially goes for the Fe vs Fi conflict. Like, while these desires I currently have are Fe-related, it''s more that I look to _both_ myself & others. (I.e fully develop & maintain my personal identity & help others develop theirs as well.) Same goes for Ne vs Ni as well. If I had a clear & extensive explanation as to how each function is, I'd move one step closer to identifying my type.


It is a pretty difficult distinction to make at first-- after all, INFJ is Ni-dom and INFP is Fi-dom. While they are different (one is introverted perceiving, one is introverted judging! that's just one example) they also examine what's beneath the surface. I can see how they feel similar.

Anyway!! It seems like you'd be interested in furthering your own investigation in this. If it's okay, I'm now about to unleash a barrage of readings that I find relevant:

Another INFJ vs INFP, but a lot about the functions!
Recognizing the Inferior Function in IFPs - A discussion of inferior Te
Recognizing the Inferior Function in INFJ - A discussion of inferior Se. See which one seems to fit you more!
Long post about Ni vs. Ne (Speaking of Ne, INFPs are the introverted counterpart to ENFPs. You might want to gain some insight into understanding how Ne-doms, aka ENXPs work, to understand Ne.)
Fi vs. Fe Inevitably everyone uses both. But an INFP is Fi-dom, so they are primarily guided by Fi! I'm also a Fi-dom. My Fi presides above Fe. It might sometimes agree with Fe, but it exists as Fi.
The functions illustrated, in Paint! Fun 
Introverted Feeling - a beautiful read.

Hope this is helpful!



> No lie, I could honestly need a hug given the state that I'm in. Speaking of hugs, I think I've stumbled upon that physical aspect of relationships/friendships with others. I've seen as to how some are comfortable with hugs or pats on the back and how some aren't comfortable. (Plus, I have this odd sensation of giving out too many high-fives with friends. Always thought it was a good thing, but looking at the repetitiveness for it, I'm starting to think otherwise. Haha :laughing:











I gotchu bro.


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## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

kittenmogu said:


> It is a pretty difficult distinction to make at first-- after all, INFJ is Ni-dom and INFP is Fi-dom. While they are different (one is introverted perceiving, one is introverted judging! that's just one example) they also examine what's beneath the surface. I can see how they feel similar.
> 
> Anyway!! It seems like you'd be interested in furthering your own investigation in this. If it's okay, I'm now about to unleash a barrage of readings that I find relevant:
> 
> ...


Woah, I'm surprised at the extensive information that has been provided through those articles! Took me many, many hours to absorb all of the information there, since I'm still fairly new to personality typing. Unfortunately, I think it's still very difficult itself to consider whether Ni or Ti of Fi are dominant for me. It's not that I can't identify myself strictly as one type, but rather, I'm somewhat well-rounded (or inclusive) in both the cognitive functions. 

To state what I men, it goes like this: I recognize that not only I but everyone has their own individual sorts of values in which they live by. However, when in a discussion with others, I take a holistic approach by first referring to my personal experiences/beliefs in a non-biased manner (hopefully) and then being open to various perspectives that follow or oppose my perceptions (mix of Fi & Fe?). I do look to personal growth not only for myself but for others as well. I have noticed that in most discussions I tend to try to take nonjudgmental/unbiased viewpoint such that conflicts won't occur; if such conflicts rise, then I normally accept and try to come to compromises (I think this accounts for why people haven't seen much of me expressing emotions). I *really* emphasize calmness within myself, which can cooperate with mindfulness & acceptance. People have told me that I do tend to get wordy when getting into explanations (or sugercoating for that matter) and that it takes me a while to get straightforward (due to digressing at times). Lastly, I *do not* attempt to influence others or have others attempt to influence me. Persuading others is not of my nature.

At this point, I'm starting to think maybe there isn't much of a need to type myself, knowing that in my case, I relate to some descriptions in within each cognitive function. I think it's the fact that I try to take a neutral stance to many matters, or have slight to no preference. 

Virtual hugs! All the time! ^_^


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

my social life is non-existing, but its the way i want it. i use this time to better myself; lose weight, enroll in college, get a job and THEN make positive/successful friends. That's the way most people do it. 

This is the time you create your cocoon and then turn into the social butterfly that you really are.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

Acceptance is something I struggled with most of my life. I sympathize. 

Warning NT talking. 

... off topic, but do you write? You show profound understanding of how people feel. It's sad that with our technology and our push towards a global civilization we've become more isolated and more frightened to reach out to others. Let's talk heritage and immigration. I'm a double immigrant. I was born Polish, moved to France and later to Canada.

Growing up, my parents constantly reminded me of my ethnicity and tried to cultivate a sense of Polish patriotism. My home only accentuated that I was an outsider living in a foreign country in which I never felt I belonged. Chances are your heritage has nothing to do with anything. Most of North America is multi racial. I've had classes, worked jobs and been to outings where I was the noticeable minority. Just in case the intuitive leap didn't kick in, I'm white. I always considered myself and outsider and whatever social anxieties I had were quickly attributed to being foreign. I was always reminded of this fact at home.

Most importantly. *You MUST learn to feel good in your company because you're always going to feel lonely. Even in the company of your closest friends.* I'm emphasizing this in bold because I can't stress how important this is.

Clear your mind of everything except what is important to you. Think about mathematics or science or anything else you're passionate about. I understand engineering is your degree and you would like to graduate and find yourself a cushy job placement. This is important, and at the same time it's superficial because the motivation comes from external sources. Find something the is truly interesting, something that is inspiring to you. Often when I'm alone I like to peruse wikipedia and youtube for random curiosities or read books on whatever subject interests me.

Think activity, not pastime. Be mentally involved. Find something that holds your interest, something that is challenging and not too frustrating and never boring. Being well rounded and naturally curious also makes you a better conversationalist and more capable of relating to other people. Closeness is something that will come with time. Most people come and go.

I had two people online point out recently that I'm an extrovert and I asked a relative who is a therapist. I'm thinking about how draining your social life is. I was never this active. It takes time to warm up to somebody. This is not going to happen when you're in formal settings and when you're running around between groups or being overwhelming. *Slow down.*

Change strategy. I've noticed you're doing much the same things as you were in highschool. The only difference is that you've accelerated the pace. Breathe. Spend a little time with yourself, get to know who you are and what you're passionate about. How else would you know what kinda of people you want in your life.

... edit, have you considered xNTP or xSTP? Could be inferior or tertiary Fe. Just saying.

http://personalitycafe.com/intp-articles/76783-recognizing-inferior-function-intp.html


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## Gossip Goat (Nov 19, 2013)

Lets start a club, I feel this way too in HS it was the worst I spent all of my time around people who I hated up until the last months of senior year where I changed my so called friends who always ditched me & did stuff without me for someone who felt the same way I did, its a shame it happened almost during the end of the year. Then I met my moms friends daughters and niece which were brought up the same way I was and we get along great. But as for college I'm pretty sure I will have no friends because I am quiet, reserved bleh bleh bleh. It gets terribly lonely but I've sort of trained myself not to rely too much on other people for happiness. I made one super great friend online who is now my best friend in the entire world. Something I've learned which is sort of harsh is that people only want to befriend you when you have something to offer and its only when you've truly tasted solitude that you crave someone only for their friendship and companionship. Do things you like to make yourself happy/benefit you/ distract you. I have a theory although it may be my own there will be one person within your social circle (not necessarily people you hang out with more so people you know) who feel exactly like you. Day in and day out in HS i was miserable I felt like you do but then one day somehow I wound up eating lunch with a girl who felt the same way & we bonded over that and kept on being friends & did everything together in school even though we were from different cliques we shared one HUGE thing in common we HaTED our friends because of how they treated us and we had been dealing with this for years but never spoke to each other until that day. It's really hard to find someone you relate to but find someone you share not only interests but values and beliefs with. Seriously do things that make you happy and focus on getting ahead with your own life and when you become successful people will flood to be by your side (although this can cause you to feel worse since they're only interested in you for your fame). 

But seriously biggest piece of advice find people with similar interests/values/beliefs and do things that make you happy also don't put your happiness on other people or hanging out with other people.

also I have a diary & vent my feelings there (and here on the venting forum) it makes me feel better, you write well so you should try it out.

But seriously lets start a club. n_n/


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## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

@Kyandigaru

Indeed! I have always taken a wonder as to how each of us humans have some sort of preference or pace we want to live, especially regarding our social lives! Speaking of paces, that also makes me curious how well people involve themselves through self-discovery/reflection in order to live as social butterflies during college. Because I have this odd feeling that despite knowing what I know about so far about myself (my weaknesses, faults, strengths, etc), something tells me that all this is merely just the beginning, or rather, the beginning of a series of struggles that we humans live through.
@Spastic Origami


Spastic Origami said:


> Acceptance is something I struggled with most of my life. I sympathize.
> 
> Warning NT talking.
> 
> ...


Actually, there's an irony regarding writing in which despite my slight dislike for it, people have told me that I tend to write quite well (more of a math/science person here). Speaking of people's feelings, I actually thought the opposite of that, since as humans, we control the way we exhibit our behavior (or rather, our actions per se) to the world. Plus, as I normally assume, I tend to think that while I _could_ try to understand or know one's feelings, there's a thought in the back of my mind which tells me that I (myself) cannot know exactly what one's feelings are but only oneself. 

Yes, I wholly resonate with your experience. Hmm...I believe you're right. From my childhood to this point in time, I've always noticed that feeling as a noticeable minority in the face of our current diverse society. I wouldn't say that it has troubled me but rather...I was never _fully_ comfortable with who I was. In fact, even both of my parents (my father stressed this) emphasized who I am in terms of the society here in North America. It's like...while I tend to view demographics (or race) as a minor matter in which I intended not to put much thought into it (sort of like an escape from society), my parents stressed that factor for the life that I'll continue to live (sort of like keeping me in reality).

As for interests, I just hope that with the time I have now, I can use it to exploring new ones or delving into past interests that faded a while ago. You know, if I didn't know any better, art/design (painting, drawing, graphic design, etc) were the primary interests I had back in high school, interests that I considered having a major for, until I switched gears into looking towards the future on how practical/interesting mathematics/science should turn out in terms of engineering. Yes, luckily with several new interests I've discovered, I'm starting to believe that it's as you said: the more I know about a certain topic, the more I can talk/relate to it, in terms of knowledge/personal experiences. 

Ultimately, you are also right about me needing to slow down. It's weird though. I thought that I was already slow enough in terms of picking up on interests, being socially involved (socializing), getting into the loop (via social media since I joined Faceebook last year). Desperation must've really setup an illusion that instead of slowing down, I was actually fast forwarding. Hehe :shocked: 

You know, I actually considered ISTP & INTP as well for a while, especially since (being uneducated in MBTI & cognitive functions) I thought I related more to Sensation rather than Intuition at first. Regarding Feeling, some have noted to me how they didn't I could really get angry and perhaps take a more unemotional approach. I find this true to an extent: it's *very* rare that I get infuriated at some (or that I see the pointless aspect of holding that emotion), and that along the lines of being unemotional, I think it's that sense of me never really being ticked off by people, along with me wearing positive masks/personas to conceal my negative behavior. 
@Paris Geller

Exactly! I guess so far, even in high school as well, I've tended to "force" these matters such that I would try to find someone who can truly & fully relate to me. Hmm...Maybe it's time I take a more "easygoing" approach to my experience, or rather, let things go naturally as they're supposed to. I think that's one part I've missed this whole time. Being natural vs. being forceful. And I think with me being forceful, I've long conflicted with one of my core values (not being aggressive or overly influential).

Mmm, journaling. That's actually one activity I'm currently beginning to embark on. It's quite...soothing and reflecting the more I get into it.

Yes, yes, a club should be made! Hehe, with you as the leader of course roud:



All in all, despite what I've come discover so far regarding interpersonal issues and a gradual understanding of my emotions and self, as stated before, I'm not sure if I've actually looked inward enough towards myself. It's like that aspect of wanting to get more knowledge of myself, wanting to know what's in store for me in the future (though no one can really predict that). I know that with the first year of college done and the research I've put into analyzing my interpersonal, social, and mental issues via MBTI, psychology, and books, will there be upcoming circumstances that will reveal parts of myself I don't know now? Do I already know enough of what I know so far? (I have a feeling it's probably a definite "no".)


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

I'm sorry. I meant to say: *You MUST learn to feel good in your "OWN" company because you're always going to feel lonely. Even in the company of your closest friends.* Both statement's are true. I wanted to emphasize the idea of accepting yourself and enjoying your own presence as a perquisite to feeling good in a relationship. Dating, friendship and otherwise. People want things of value. You and I both want to surround ourselves with quality as does everybody else. Well, not really. But if you want quality, the people who can offer you quality will want quality in return. Simply put: I feel it's important to know your own value before you can receive value. Mind you this is not an argument for being a doormat. On the contrary. 



Infinitii said:


> Ultimately, you are also right about me needing to slow down. It's weird though. I thought that I was already slow enough in terms of picking up on interests, being socially involved (socializing), getting into the loop (via social media since I joined Faceebook last year). Desperation must've really setup an illusion that instead of slowing down, I was actually fast forwarding. Hehe :shocked:


You are also correct in your observations. The perception of slowness is explained by the absence of change in your activities. A person working obsessively in small increments and spinning his wheels and moving no faster than someone who works haphazardly and addresses the correct problem with the correct means. The overall progress may be equal but one is spinning his wheels and missing traction while the other is just coasting in neutral. The speedometer measures the spin of the wheels regardless if your stuck in a snow bank and not going anywhere or on a smooth road.



> You know, I actually considered ISTP & INTP as well for a while, especially since (being uneducated in MBTI & cognitive functions) I thought I related more to Sensation rather than Intuition at first. Regarding Feeling, some have noted to me how they didn't I could really get angry and perhaps take a more unemotional approach. I find this true to an extent: it's *very* rare that I get infuriated at some (or that I see the pointless aspect of holding that emotion), and that along the lines of being unemotional, I think it's that sense of me never really being ticked off by people, along with me wearing positive masks/personas to conceal my negative behavior.


Weird, because I have quite the temper. I only hide it exceptionally well.

... also, my experience with churches, political groups or any institution that codifies its values, the acceptance is conditional and dependant on your acceptance of the group's authority. The comradely is defined on the worship of the group's statutes. The cause often replaces human relationships. I don't want to always because there exists a possibility of it being otherwise, however personal experience and the observation of other people has always shown "always" to be the case. Find a group that is open ended, democratic and open to discussion contrasting opinions and values.


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## donkeybals (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi there.

1. How do you let your grades slip if you have nothing else better to do but lie around and take naps?

2. You are making too big of a deal about things.

3. Keep joining clubs and activities like that and be patient with the friendships and when you meet someone dont talk about how sad/depressed you are, you seem nice enough but are scaring people off with that 

4. Find a job

That is all. I apologize for being blunt but if you do all that you will be good.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

donkeybals said:


> Hi there.
> 
> 1. How do you let your grades slip if you have nothing else better to do but lie around and take naps?
> 
> ...


Being blunt is fine. However the content of your posts (especially numbers 1, 2, and 4) implies you are more interested in criticizing/judging the OP instead of helping or giving constructive advice on their individual situation, regardless of your true intention.

I'm replying to this because I'm not interested in seeing OP receive unconstructive criticism about a personal and sensitive matter. If I misread your intentions I apologize but that's what I got from reading your post.


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## donkeybals (Jan 13, 2011)

kittenmogu said:


> Being blunt is fine. However the content of your posts (especially numbers 1, 2, and 4) implies you are more interested in criticizing/judging the OP instead of helping or giving constructive advice on their individual situation, regardless of your true intention.
> 
> I'm replying to this because I'm not interested in seeing OP receive unconstructive criticism about a personal and sensitive matter. If I misread your intentions I apologize but that's what I got from reading your post.


I'm sorry too than, didn't mean anything by it and he doesn't have to listen to me either.


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## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

@Spastic Origami



Spastic Origami said:


> I'm sorry. I meant to say: *You MUST learn to feel good in your "OWN" company because you're always going to feel lonely. Even in the company of your closest friends.* Both statement's are true. I wanted to emphasize the idea of accepting yourself and enjoying your own presence as a perquisite to feeling good in a relationship. Dating, friendship and otherwise. People want things of value. You and I both want to surround ourselves with quality as does everybody else. Well, not really. But if you want quality, the people who can offer you quality will want quality in return. Simply put: I feel it's important to know your own value before you can receive value. Mind you this is not an argument for being a doormat. On the contrary.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmm...You're right. I didn't realize that such a intense internal conflict had been within me this whole time, and that by not accepting what I've encountered (be it intense emotions, changes in my ways of thinking) I haven't been fully being comfortable with myself. Yes, it's clear now: If I can't respect, understand, accept, and love myself for who I am and what I do, how can others do the same? 

Woah, now that's an insightful analogy! Pretty much describes my progress & overall change so far. And I think it's that analogy which perfectly states that I've more on the "thinking" of side of things while being less on the "doing" of things (initiating goals, and especially being _consistency_ on that part). You could say that in a way, I "talk the talk" while not "walk the walk". That's been a recurring issue for me. Guess I clearly just got to ease up on taking big leaps of faith and going slow & steady.

Actually, I'm in luck since I'm currently in a church group that is indeed open-minded and democratic. However, I have this weird feeling that in terms of religion and spirituality, I'm beginning to sway more towards spiritual beliefs. While I have indulged myself to attempt to understand the religious beliefs, I still hold like some sort of unsettling feeling towards them. Like, at the core, I just can't come to really "identify" myself with religion. I mean, I can engage in discussions regarding what individuals believe in, but I won't really classify myself under one. However, I'd say the opposite goes for spiritual beliefs I've begun to explore, since in terms of my character, I feel more "in sync" with the beliefs, along with the fact that they make sense or synchronize with my perspectives/values.
@donkeybals

Trust me, even I'm in shock as I reflect on the person who I was this past year. But in a way, despite the experiences I've lived so far, you could say that this whole experience is a learning process of not only who I am, but what opportunities and changes I need to initiate.

1. Hmm...I'd say that I was putting _way_ too much time into both researching the interpersonal issues I had, along with the misuse of time management, not engaging myself enough in activities/interests, etc. You could say that overall, it was really prioritizing the wrong things coming into college. Or rather, I walked in blind to my first year.

2. Yes! That's what I was even starting to think! Even a couple of my acquaintances have noted how I tend to over-think and over-analyze numerous matters. It's this issue that I have set myself to change as well, by not putting too much time into reflecting on my issues.

3. Yes, that is what I intend to continue to do as well. Hmm...I think that's another illusion I've been under as well: patience. Despite that being one of my core values, it's a wonder that my desperation has strongly opposed that. Wait, talking to others about my experiences I've had. I...I actually thought that I might have been scaring people off with that. I think this adds to why I've seen a downward spiral of available people to talk to. I guess...not everyone can be comfortable right off the bat with me spilling my guts to them. Yes, I think that instead of focusing on the positive aspects of my life, I've been attempting to decipher what underlying issues I've had with my negative experiences by discussing them as the primary topic for conversations with my friends.

4. Indeed, an on-campus job will certainly help into utilizing any leisure time I may have for next year. Plus, it could even help improve any communication problems I've had, or with expressing myself to others, etc.

Oh no no, in fact, it's good that you're being straightforward with me. That's what I'm trying to be as well. With me always trying to be gentle (or digressing or sugercoating) with others on the problems they discuss with me, I've been set on gradually becoming more blunt with my responses and overall going straight to the point/matter. roud:

@kittenmogu

Ahh, it's alright! While I may not exactly know the intent behind donkeybal's critique of my situation, any criticism is better than none! Though I agree with you that I'm sure that for any individual (myself included), one may have more underlying matters that will require more than just exploring organizations and such. I think the degree of the circumstances that one will encounter may vary for each individual, as you said.


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## donkeybals (Jan 13, 2011)

I mean you pretty much sound like a class act to me, its in your head man, just keep doing what your doing and you'll meet someone nice in no time.


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

Infinitii said:


> Hmm...You're right. I didn't realize that such a intense internal conflict had been within me this whole time, and that by not accepting what I've encountered (be it intense emotions, changes in my ways of thinking) I haven't been fully being comfortable with myself. Yes, it's clear now: If I can't respect, understand, accept, and love myself for who I am and what I do, how can others do the same?
> 
> Woah, now that's an insightful analogy! Pretty much describes my progress & overall change so far. And I think it's that analogy which perfectly states that I've more on the "thinking" of side of things while being less on the "doing" of things (initiating goals, and especially being _consistency_ on that part). You could say that in a way, I "talk the talk" while not "walk the walk". That's been a recurring issue for me. Guess I clearly just got to ease up on taking big leaps of faith and going slow & steady.


... you might enjoy reading Kierkegaard. He talks about leaps of faith within a spiritual and religious context but he makes it clear that everything in life commands a certain amount of belief. This is something empiricists/materialists often cringe at considering its pointing out the belief aspect of rational objectivity. Kurt Godel later proved that every mathematical/logical system is incomplete and therefore contains postulates that are taken on faith. Maths, you're trusting something that cannot be proved. You're always welcome to take a chance on something new, something exciting because the problem was not in taking the leaps of faith but jumping into a photocopy of the same situation, using the same techniques and always falling because there was no variance to your jump ... again, been there, done that.

Sometimes slow and steady works. Other times fast. I'm in a position where I could pick up the pace and go quicker. 




> Actually, I'm in luck since I'm currently in a church group that is indeed open-minded and democratic. However, I have this weird feeling that in terms of religion and spirituality, I'm beginning to sway more towards spiritual beliefs. While I have indulged myself to attempt to understand the religious beliefs, I still hold like some sort of unsettling feeling towards them. Like, at the core, I just can't come to really "identify" myself with religion. I mean, I can engage in discussions regarding what individuals believe in, but I won't really classify myself under one. However, I'd say the opposite goes for spiritual beliefs I've begun to explore, since in terms of my character, I feel more "in sync" with the beliefs, along with the fact that they make sense or synchronize with my perspectives/values.


... I don't think I could identify with a religion, or a political movement. There are time's when I would support one because I feel they're taking society in the right direction. In some sense, a careful balance between autonomy and participation. At the end of everything the choice is really yours to make. I've had a flatmate who became a born again Lutheran and couldn't accept that fact that my family was Roman Catholic and that I wouldn't support his mission in Ukraine. I felt his church was exploiting the needs of the people, yet one of my closest friends was this old Dutch guy who was a Calvinist pastor. Old pastor hanging out with a young heathen. And not preaching. Lol.


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## Infinitii (Jul 5, 2014)

[No message]


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## Doc Dangerstein (Mar 8, 2013)

I was a total trainwreck when I was in school. Let's just say I bought into the lies of success and the American dream. I majored in music and pushed for success and perfectionism. Everything was driven by anxiety and the need to go further. I'm still a little disappointed and bitter with how things turned out. So yeah, I had to rediscover myself when I was 34, teaching piano and really think about things for the past two years. Mainly trying to recapture who I was back in high school. Can't say I can really say anything other than I would like to really start over and don't know where. Teaching isn't bad if I could make a business out of it but it's not something I particularly want to do forever. Maybe on the side; I genuinely like the people I teach ... it feels horrible in saying that they're a compromise because they're not but in some ways there's always thinking about the life that could have been. So I don't know. Maybe I could start practicing again and record something but I'm frightened of living that lifestyle again. It's irrational ... I know. But at the same time it's a shame to let everything slip away.


... yeah, self knowledge definitely came after college. All honesty, I'm pretty messed up.


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