# Abraxas - MBTI Type Questionaire



## nonnaci (Sep 25, 2011)

The theory is that the dom-inf function dynamic creates the prominent tension that typifies one's life. e.g. The dom-Ni creates a specific vision or possibility with such a convincing quality to the ego that it is compelled to actualize it in real life (inf-Se). Like two points on opposing ends of a circle, it cannot bridge the gap unless it develops two auxiliaries along the rim to link the two ends. Utilizing AP's concept of libdo flow and unconscious counterflow, Ni is pulling energy away from the object or equivalently drawing drawing energy from the endopsyche which is connected to the unconscious towards the ego. The Se counterflow is energy directed from the ego layer towards the external world but is largely blocked (made unaware by the ego) by Ni's preoccupation with the downunder. My interpretation is that to relieve this one-sidedness or tension, the auxiliary and tertiary functions are developed to act like artery and vein respectively in this system. 

So in the case of INTJ (and moving away from Jung some more), Te provides the ego with an avenue for Ni expression which is one step away from reaching tangible Se form. Fi indicates to the ego that the tangible Se results are worthwhile and that whatever Ni is doing should continue or be reinforced. Can you confirm or deny in your history that when this cycle is met, fulfillment is reached?


----------



## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

Which of these do you relate more?


_*ISTP/INFJ: Ti/Ni or Ni/Ti--Schizoid Personality Disorder*. These types are socially incompetent for lack of trying, because they see little to no value in significant interaction with others. They live in their own abstract worlds, constantly second-guessing themselves as Ti poses a framework for a problem and Ni shoots it down as too definitionally precise. Without any real external input, these two functions will dream up all sorts of elaborate systems and implications for them, only to repeat their own self-defeating behavior, never bothering to emphasize putting any of its intense ideas into practice. Frequent disregard for rules, laws and other forms of behavioral standards is common, as no function provides any significant sense of external influence. If Se/Fe were doing its job, the user would recognize the value of connecting with others and of paying attention to their needs, preferences, habits and appearances.
_
OR


_*INTP/ISFJ: Ti/Si or Si/Ti--Schizotypal Personality Disorder*. I see this most commonly in INTP dom/tert loops (Ti+Si), resulting in totally giving up on attempting to obtain the social/interpersonal connections that inferior Fe drives them to unconsciously desire. Schizotypal people are seen (and typically see themselves) as having such unusual thoughts and behaviors that widespread social acceptance is nearly impossible. Ti thinks, "I cannot find any logical explanation  for social rituals" and Si reinforces this self-isolating, risk-averse behavior by constantly reminding the user: "Remember how badly this went last time you tried?" If Ne were doing its job, it would remind the user to continue experimenting to find a new approach. In the ISFJ version, Si becomes ultra risk-averse and refuses to try anything new or unfamiliar. If Fe were doing its job, the ISFJ would learn that some risk is necessary in order to uphold obligations to others and avoid living in total solitude. Deep down, these types really do want social connection and ritual (Fe), but have found themselves so poor at it that they simply give up trying.

_Sounds like your extraverted functions are undernourished. Your introverted functions are so great in intensity. I see Ti and a little bit of Ne in here:
_



People need to become educated. They need to study things, even if you do it out of school and just read stuff on the internet. But, what's really important is that you study things like philosophy and logic, and learn how to think WELL. You need to get really good at thinking and maybe even learn how to argue effectively. Study argumentation and logic, and study history, and study politics, and study economics. Economics is another really important one. Learn how the fucking economy works. Jesus christ people, what the fuck is wrong with you. Take life seriously. You think you're some wise man come down from the mountain because you've been to a bunch of dumb parties, smoked a lot of weed, and gotten laid a million times? You're a fucking idiot. Get a degree in something, preferably a masters degree. Become an engineer. Invent a new technology that is going to improve society. Try to cure cancer or something. Run for governor or mayor. DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR LIFE BEFORE IT'S OVER.

Click to expand...

_
Ne is about hidden meaning and finding purpose but that is also an attribute of Ni.
This is Ni. Ni-doms are good at story-telling. In paragraph below, you sound like my dad who is an INTJ.


> _Talking about the things that interest me energize me a lot. I love to teach people the things that I know. When someone is genuinely interested in a topic that I am interested in, I get really energized and I could talk and talk and talk and talk and talk about that stuff and never tire - in fact, there's no way I could sleep if I'm engaged in discussing a topic I really find fascinating. I'd stay up forever. Seriously, I've done this before. I'm not exaggerating, I literally feel no fatigue at all when this happens, although, it is quite rare to find anyone as passionate as I am about the things I am interested in_.


And this paragraph is very Ni. Ni is more dominant in you than Ne.


> _My hunches and gut feelings always send me for a loop. I get them all day, constantly, 24/7. And when I get them, I think about them. I think, think, think, think about them. Non-stop. I do a lot of tail-chasing in this respect. I can spend YEARS on the same topic, and obsess over it all day, everyday, to the exclusion of much else. I will spend lots of money researching a subject that fascinates me, read a whole case of books on it, and try to completely master it before I stop. It's borderline autistic really. Once I become obsessed with something, it occupies my mind at all times, and rarely am I thinking about anything else. The things that trigger my hunches and gut feelings are usually my own behavior. They come from inside me, and are always self-reflective. Everything I perceive externally, outside me, says something about who I am inside, inside of me - and I am fixated on that. I am always seeing implications in how I perceive things, which indicate who I am as a person, and how perception itself operates. I don't just see the world - I see seeing itself. I see how seeing shapes what is seen. I see other ways to see things, and I am always imagining these alternatives to whatever exists. But the key is that I recognize that these alternatives represent different modes of self-being. It is as if to say, to change the self is to change what is not-self. I recognize patterns in the world, but those patterns are not patterns built into reality itself - they are built into me. Into my soul. Into my being. The hunches I get, the implications I chase, they are shadows of my soul, reflections of my true self. I am not trying to find patterns in the world for their own sake - I am the world. The world is me. I see my face reflected in the ripples on the surface of the water, but the ripples distort the image. I can't see who I am clearly. I am always searching..._


With this one below, I could relate to you big time! I quit my job because I'm surrounded with toxic people who follows rule by the book even the most shittest and stupidest and the most senseless of rules. *sighs*_



The thing that drains me the most is having to conform to a set of social protocols that tell me how to behave, and being around people who take those protocols seriously, base their emotions on them, and then take strong offense to me when I don't obey those protocols, and then get in my face about it or treat me with disrespect. They get really sassy and turn into an asshole or a bitch with me, and that really pisses me off. Anger is really draining to me, I can't stand being mad. I really hate hating. I will try really hard to avoid such people, like they are toxic waste polluting my environment. If you are one of these people, I seriously hate you. I can't wait for you to get cancer

Click to expand...

_With that paragraph above you seem very little to no Fe.

This is also Ni and so much introspection:


> M_y hunches and gut feelings always send me for a loop. I get them all day, constantly, 24/7. And when I get them, I think about them. I think, think, think, think about them. Non-stop. I do a lot of tail-chasing in this respect. I can spend YEARS on the same topic, and obsess over it all day, everyday, to the exclusion of much else. I will spend lots of money researching a subject that fascinates me, read a whole case of books on it, and try to completely master it before I stop. It's borderline autistic really. Once I become obsessed with something, it occupies my mind at all times, and rarely am I thinking about anything else. The things that trigger my hunches and gut feelings are usually my own behavior. They come from inside me, and are always self-reflective. Everything I perceive externally, outside me, says something about who I am inside, inside of me - and I am fixated on that. I am always seeing implications in how I perceive things, which indicate who I am as a person, and how perception itself operates. I don't just see the world - I see seeing itself. I see how seeing shapes what is seen. I see other ways to see things, and I am always imagining these alternatives to whatever exists. But the key is that I recognize that these alternatives represent different modes of self-being. It is as if to say, to change the self is to change what is not-self. I recognize patterns in the world, but those patterns are not patterns built into reality itself - they are built into me. Into my soul. Into my being. The hunches I get, the implications I chase, they are shadows of my soul, reflections of my true self. I am not trying to find patterns in the world for their own sake - I am the world. The world is me. I see my face reflected in the ripples on the surface of the water, but the ripples distort the image. I can't see who I am clearly. I am always searching.._.


With your thread I imagine you speaking in husky deep voice with hand actions and kicking feet lol:laughing:
My conclusion is you're INTJ, 'cause when you are researching things, you have a stick-to-ism attitude unlike Ne who will hop from one topic of knowledge to another, and you sounded like an INTJ male I had argument about. I have more question though. Do people seek your friendship? I have an INTP friend and I was surprised that he was an IN because he seem extroverted. But the thing is, INTPs are sought after by their friends. Are you like that?


----------



## Perhaps (Aug 20, 2011)

@_Abraxas_

The thing @_Chance_yRose mentioned about stress patterns, as well as the bit you added about your grandmother puts a lot into perspective. I'd forgotten about the latter. Weirdly, the only function I've never seen represented in your posts is Si, which - theoretically - rules out INTP (and INFP is completely out of the question, but for the reasons you've already identified).

What's confusing me is that I'm not sure which mode of presentation is your "default," for lack of a better term. I get two different impressions from your posts in this thread alone; the OP actually veers into Ne-Ti territory, and there's quite a bit of Fe in there as well, because you feel so pressured to conform, even though you hate it. This is something I often note in younger INTPs in particular; they'll adhere to a system but resent it the whole time, feeling as if they have no personal power to transcend or otherwise exist outside of said system. (INTJs, in my experience, are more apt to carve themselves a niche and stay in it.) This is probably part of why you find the INTP board so off-putting, because this sort of behavior is, at this point in time, glorified to a ridiculous degree.

How confident are you in your introversion? Because, I often wonder if you're not actually a "repressed" ENTP.


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

@Abraxas @ChanceyRose and others

I wrote this awhile back. Forget about loops. They involve all four functions, more in the way @nonnaci describes

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...ractical-conceptual-problems.html#post2698964


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

Action Potential said:


> How confident are you in your introversion? Because, I often wonder if you're not actually a "repressed" ENTP.


Would there be something I could do that would certainly confirm it one way or the other?

I've always thought of myself as being a clear introvert. At work, I'm quiet and don't say much, I just listen, and find most of what I hear uninteresting. Basically the only socializing I do is here on PerC, and with the one or two friends I have outside of these boards that I've known forever. I'm not fixated on trends, society, or even the physical universe - I'm just fixated on a few specific topics in the whole world, one of them being MBTI. I'm constantly stuck in introspection, analyzing my own behavior for flaws and weaknesses, trying to improve myself every second of every day - to the extent that I totally ignore the lives of my co-workers, friends, and even my own family.

One of my friends, a definite extravert, tries to make me feel bad about this in fact. He reminds me that I should talk to my family once in awhile, or talk to my co-workers - that I'll never have friends if I don't make friends. But who cares, I reply. Why do I need lots of friends? I don't get the obsession with it. He's Mr. Social and goes out drinking and partying and such, and talks about how he's going to introduce me to everyone he knows and shit if I ever move out - but, really, there's no way I'd ever move in with him or out there. He'd drop me like a bad habit in no time.

I don't feel a need or a desire to explore this world, or the people in it. I'm just passing through. I'll be dead soon, and I don't care if anyone remembers me. Life is just totally absurd anyway, and death is even more absurd. To me, everything exists as some kind of strange reflection of myself. I struggle with solipsism _a lot_. I honestly entertain the notion that solipsism might be real, even it if can't be proven or makes no sense. A lot of things that make no sense are still true.


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

INTJellectual said:


> Which of these do you relate more?
> 
> 
> _*ISTP/INFJ: Ti/Ni or Ni/Ti--Schizoid Personality Disorder*. These types are socially incompetent for lack of trying, because they see little to no value in significant interaction with others. They live in their own abstract worlds, constantly second-guessing themselves as Ti poses a framework for a problem and Ni shoots it down as too definitionally precise. Without any real external input, these two functions will dream up all sorts of elaborate systems and implications for them, only to repeat their own self-defeating behavior, never bothering to emphasize putting any of its intense ideas into practice. Frequent disregard for rules, laws and other forms of behavioral standards is common, as no function provides any significant sense of external influence. If Se/Fe were doing its job, the user would recognize the value of connecting with others and of paying attention to their needs, preferences, habits and appearances.
> ...


I relate a lot to both paragraphs. It's hard for me to say, but maybe the first one a bit more? I really don't do anything unusual. My behaviors are fairly normal and not the kind that would stand out. Although, I do dress a bit out of the ordinary (I like to wear neo-victorian clothing). I guess I don't understand why anyone would really need social connections and rituals though. That part I don't connect with. I could understand it as maybe having alliances to be able to call in favors and utility things like that, or maybe because you find a person entertaining or something - but to a certain point, and is that really friendship? Just keeping someone around because they entertain you? That seems a bit condescending to me, I wouldn't feel right about that. I would have to genuinely respect the person for who they were, and admire them in some way. If I admired them in some way, then I could see myself wanting to be their friend and doing favors for them once in awhile. But my standards are really high, and most people don't meet them.

Most people don't seek me out. I have about two or three friends, but I guess they do contact me a lot. One of them calls me on the phone everyday, though I never really call him. He worries about me. My other friend is really introverted, so if I don't talk to him he might not talk to me for a long time, but at a certain point he'll start to worry and he'll send me a message like, "Hey are you okay? I haven't heard from you in weeks. Are you mad at me or something?" So I guess my friends do try to reach me, but people who aren't my close friends usually just avoid me or they are neutral towards me.


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

nonnaci said:


> The theory is that the dom-inf function dynamic creates the prominent tension that typifies one's life. e.g. The dom-Ni creates a specific vision or possibility with such a convincing quality to the ego that it is compelled to actualize it in real life (inf-Se). Like two points on opposing ends of a circle, it cannot bridge the gap unless it develops two auxiliaries along the rim to link the two ends. Utilizing AP's concept of libdo flow and unconscious counterflow, Ni is pulling energy away from the object or equivalently drawing drawing energy from the endopsyche which is connected to the unconscious towards the ego. The Se counterflow is energy directed from the ego layer towards the external world but is largely blocked (made unaware by the ego) by Ni's preoccupation with the downunder. My interpretation is that to relieve this one-sidedness or tension, the auxiliary and tertiary functions are developed to act like artery and vein respectively in this system.
> 
> So in the case of INTJ (and moving away from Jung some more), Te provides the ego with an avenue for Ni expression which is one step away from reaching tangible Se form. Fi indicates to the ego that the tangible Se results are worthwhile and that whatever Ni is doing should continue or be reinforced. Can you confirm or deny in your history that when this cycle is met, fulfillment is reached?


Wow.

I actually relate to that post a lot. I can absolutely confirm that motivation is the hardest thing for me - finding a value for my actions is what holds me back. I'm always thinking of my "place" in the big picture, and when I zoom out in my mind, the scope of reality, and how small and insignificant I am, slams me down and I feel almost no motivation to even go on living, like my life is totally worthless, so who gives a fuck really what I do. Sometimes I counter this by trying to be determined to do something really ambitious, but then I recognize that I don't have the strength for that. I'd rather just live an easy relaxing life with minimal Se-responsibility. Shit, I can't even bring myself to style my hair. I just towel it and go.

Which reminds me, I need to shave today, it's been days.


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

I think @_Action Potential_ is actually on to the real deal-breaker here.

After contemplating what she pointed out, and letting my brain mull it around a bit, and reflecting upon my past, even going back to my childhood, I think I may actually be a repressed ENTP.

I think I fall into INTJ behavior when I'm stressed or afraid, or lack confidence in myself. Lacking confidence is something I struggle with deeply, and I believe this may have led me to believe I was an introvert, because I am so passive and "stuck" in my own thoughts. But when I think about the times in my life whenever I was happiest, it was never when I was just left alone by myself. My happiest moments have been times when I received recognition from my friends for something I did that was really impressive to them. I've always longed for encouragement that I never really received as a child, and I tend to seek it from my friends.

I think the reason why my Fi seems to hyperactive is because deep down inside, it doesn't feel natural and I'm struggling with accepting that I actually use Fe, and that I actually do need to feel wanted and admired by other people. I think what happens is that I don't always receive that from other people, and when I don't, I feel rejected and I grow bitter. I then think, "well fuck you then" and get very passive-aggressive, which I believe I have falsely interpreted as Fi. But the truth is, I believe if I really did use Fi, then I would not care so much about other people and what they thought of me.

I believe my enneatype sheds some light on this.

Type 9's disintegrate into 6s, which manifests as choosing the "safe route" and security-seeking behavior through appeals to socially acceptable forms of behavior, or obeying authority and so forth. I think this manifests in me as INTJ-like behavior - being neat and tidy, being on-time and efficient, being clean and systematic, etc. I notice that whenever I am not holding myself back, not afraid of failure or rejection, I become much more assertive and I tend to "show off" or just act really eccentric and silly, trying to get attention by showing confidence and being novel in my styles and statements. That is what one begins to see when a 9 is integrating into becoming more like a 3, which is the healthy path towards growth and becoming part of the world.

I believe the reason why Si does not show up much in my posts is because it is my inferior function.

However, Si still manifests in my personality as a tendency to get "stuck" in comforting, familiar routines and behaviors, doing the same thing over and over, repeating the same things, or studying the same subject, ad naseum. My dominant function, Ne, is always turning up something new, and this off-sets the sterility of doing the same thing over and over, because with every pass, it seems "just new enough" to keep me coming back again and again - but this just cannot be sustained forever. It becomes stressful, my life becomes dull and boring, I begin to feel trapped in my inferior function and want to "break out". I become depressed and anxious, I start looking for a "way out of myself" - so I fantasize about who I could become, who I might truly be, what I could do with my life. That kind of "long-term/deep-field" thinking and visualizing might easily be misunderstood to be Ni-Te, and thus, at those times in my life where I reached a point that I couldn't stand it and just forced myself to commit to a goal, I might act very much like an INTJ - but only in short bursts. I can't sustain it for very long, as pretty soon my dominant function is telling me to explore other avenues, and I realize that my heart was never in the right place to begin with.

I was never given the encouragement to explore and make my own mistakes growing up. I was home-schooled and sheltered, and raised by an xSFJ, and I believe this has had a profoundly negative impact on the development of my functions. It has led to my weaker functions being "forced" upon me before I had time to develop my dominant and auxiliary ones. The side effect of this being that I therefore lack the confidence to use them a lot, I live passively, I don't take risks or explore all the possibilities that I see. I just "stay in Si" - following the easy road, the safe road, the one that I know well.

I show a lot of Ne-Ti, and I wonder if I just focused on exploring my auxiliary function, Ti, I might actually be able to turn all of this around. Maybe it doesn't have to turn out to be a bad thing that I have a strong tertiary and inferior function, due to the influence of my upbringing. If I can just wake up, wake out of the stupor of them, and jump-start my cognitive engine by going straight to Ti, everything might actually work out for me. It might even be much easier for me to develop my auxiliary later in life now, because I'm older and already pretty good at it. I love philosophy, especially logic and argumentation. If I can get really good at that, then I think I'll be set for life. Again, like I said, the influence of my xSFJ grandmother on my Fe and Si functions would actually pay off if I am in fact an ENTP, because this way I'm actually at an advantage - because I am already familiar with social conventions and how to be friendly via Fe, and used to moderately boring routine via weak Si.

I dunno, at least with this interpretation I feel like there's hope. Going back and imagining myself as an INTJ, I just can't come up with a "game plan" that really _feels_ right. I mean, I understand what I said to @_ChanceyRose_, and that makes sense for an INTJ, but when I imagine myself really applying that - I don't know. It seems like that same reasoning is true of both Se and Si inferior functions. I believe ENTPs can also struggle with unhealthy addictions - although, the nature of the addiction is subtly different. With Se, you are addicted to the intensity of the experience - but with Si, you are addicted to the comfort and familiarity of it. You see? But in the end, it amounts to largely the same drawback and the same problem - not engaging the dominant and auxiliary functions fully. And just in that sense, the same advice holds true - I need to choose goals and stick with them. Nothing changes, just, my understanding seems clearer if I look at it as trying to resist the pull of the safe and familiar, and instead engage in things that are both inspirational and logical uses of my free-time.

Also, I'd like to say thank you to @_nonnaci_, @_INTJellectual_, @_nadjasix_, and @_FacelessBeauty_.

Your input was useful, and I'm curious what you think about everything I just said.


----------



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Hmmmm about social conventions and the recognition you seek I have two questions.
When you look for recognition and encouragement is it more of a social thing, academic/intellectual validation thing or a bit of both?
And as far as social conventions go, do you have to train yourself at it more or do you naturally feel inclined to go with them?
I think once you answer these the answer should be pretty clear.


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Hmmmm about social conventions and the recognition you seek I have two questions.
> When you look for recognition and encouragement is it more of a social thing, academic/intellectual validation thing or a bit of both?
> And as far as social conventions go, do you have to train yourself at it more or do you naturally feel inclined to go with them?
> I think once you answer these the answer should be pretty clear.


Social conventions are invisible to me. That is to say, I don't have to give them any thought. I know when I'm doing something that might be considered rude. It's obvious to me. I've always known, "this might offend someone, this might be seen as rude."

I always thought I was using Fi, because my facial expression is rather neutral and inexpressive, and I know that my mannerisms cause other people distress who use Fe. This feels like a burden to me, because I have to go out of my way to act a certain way. However, I usually end up just going with the "safe" route of being socially conventional. I say please and thank you, I do people favors. I compliment them. I smile and laugh at jokes I don't think are funny. I try to be impressive or offer good advice on things I don't really feel interested in. I actually do my best to "be a good person" - even though, privately, I find the whole routine dull and boring, and the advice I really want to give is "just do something new and original, fuck what other people think."

I always say that, "you shouldn't care so much how other people feel about it." But, the truth is, I personally care a great deal with other people feel about what I do. I just want them to feel good about me, good about what it is that I say and do. I want them to admire me for who I choose to be. I want them to accept me and bring me into their circles, and I wouldn't even mind compromising a bit with their standards, if only so much. I have a knack for avoiding making enemies, even if I have very few friends. I'm extremely congenial. The only people who really don't like me are so extremely bitter and unhealthy themselves that it's obvious to anyone with a brain that I'm the victim in such situations, and I usually get told not to worry about those people anyway because they're just assholes.

But I can be quite rude myself sometimes. I don't like having to go out of my way or do things to "fit in" - I just do. It's like protocol, but it gets tiresome. I do it, but I'd rather not have to. Again, I interpreted this as Fi up until now, because I assumed that was Fi hating the Fe social conventions, but maybe I was wrong. I wonder if it's really Fe in the tertiary position, being one of my weaker functions, and so being harder to sustain. I wonder if I was actually Fi, then I would just never even allow myself to break my own values and compromise at all, because it would feel utterly dishonest and immoral to do so.

I just want to add on here, going in another direction, that I always thought I was a Ni-dominant because I have an uncanny knack for being able to "emulate" it in the way I speak, and the way that I think. I share so many of the same opinions, so much of the same insight that you would hear a Ni-dominant speak of. I, too, deeply grasp the root of perception as subjective, and that everything we perceive in reality is more or less a creation and not a discovery - that the greatest lie of all is called "truth" - that the best way to be manipulative is to be realistic - that the greatest illusions of all are called "facts" - this kind of double-speak and thinking comes naturally to me.

But, I wonder how much of it is really implied by reality itself? Ne is oriented via the objective factor - what if what I have done is, in fact, remarkably profound? What if I have put 2-and-2 together just from observing nature, just from observing reality, and come to the conclusion that so much of it is absurd and reflecting some ineffable subjective reality within - not because I use Ni, but because it is _implicit in external reality as well. What if there is truly no difference from which direction you begin, because you ultimately arrive at the same destination, regardless. Whether you stare long into the Abyss, or the Abyss stares back into you - you see a *void*_ _that calls out to be *filled*_.


----------



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Well I don't know what to make of this. It's like the order of your stack is clear (_intuitive dominant for sure_), but the orientation of them is somewhat obscure. Either you've mindfucked yourself into thinking you're INTJ or you've repressed your natural preferences beyond recognition. Or maybe ambiverts actually exist and you're one of the lucky few. Whichever one seems more natural to you is probably your best bet.


----------



## Perhaps (Aug 20, 2011)

@Abraxas, do you notice a change in your posts in this thread? Think in terms of what I mentioned via PM (and, as I said, I'll get to addressing certain points in those once my brain stops oozing out of my ears). There's a definite decrease in stress levels, for one thing, but I'd like your take on it.


----------



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Action Potential said:


> @_Abraxas_, do you notice a change in your posts in this thread? Think in terms of what I mentioned via PM (and, as I said, I'll get to addressing certain points in those once my brain stops oozing out of my ears). There's a definite decrease in stress levels, for one thing, but I'd like your take on it.


I've seen it. He seems more zen.


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

Action Potential said:


> @_Abraxas_, do you notice a change in your posts in this thread? Think in terms of what I mentioned via PM (and, as I said, I'll get to addressing certain points in those once my brain stops oozing out of my ears). There's a definite decrease in stress levels, for one thing, but I'd like your take on it.


I want to say, It feels more "honest." I do not have to dig as deep to come to terms with it.

It is very much like having solved a puzzle that still makes no sense, so you try different "ciphers" to try and decode the result you've gotten, but none of them are exact. However, one amongst them seems to give less gibberish and something more comprehensible.

But let me be a bit more concrete for a moment.

Today, at work, (I'm normally like this but especially today) I tried being more initiating, more engaging, more care-free and talkative. What I did, in fact, was to think about some of my favorite characters in cinema, like Robert Downey Jr. in Sherlock Holmes, Iron Man I and II, and Avengers, and Johnny Depp in just about everything he's ever stared in, especially Pirates of the Caribbean, and then I tried to emulate those characters, as practically as I could. I became aware of certain limits that I have on myself which seem artificial and unnatural. One of them, for example, is being cocky and even narcissistic. I hold that part of me back, but the truth is, _I'm fucking awesome._ I admire myself, but I don't show it because I don't want to offend other people.

All throughout the day today I wanted to be bold. I wanted to be risky and dangerous, and thumb my nose at convention. To all the pretty looking girls that came into the restaurant, I wanted to take their order, while asking them out on a date. I ended up chickening out, but when I imagined myself doing that, I imagined myself doing it the way Tony Stark would, being really laid-back about it and eccentric at the same time, full of energy, like I was full of electricity and just oozed confidence. The truth is, that is who I really want to be, and I think I actually am like that a bit, but I hold back _a lot_. I hold back because I'm afraid I'll get into trouble, or hurt someone's feelings, or whatever. All very atypical of type 9 fears, not wanting to "disrupt the peace" - because we're the peacemaker, you see. We're passive, we hold back, we don't allow ourselves to take risks or be assertive, because we're afraid of fucking everything up.

I felt like I could see clearly, right in front of me, what the barrier was. There was no confusion at all. I knew, this is who I am. This is what I need to do. I need to walk right up and say hello to those pretty girls, and if I look stupid doing it, then go with that - roll with the punches, improvise. If they turn me down flat, just be like, "you sure? Because I think we'd have a great time. What if I just give you my number? Maybe it's weird for me to be making a pass at you at work, right? I get that, it's cool. Oh shit, my boss is coming. Look like a customer again--" - "Hey boss." - "Right this way miss!" And as we're walking to her table, "so, what do you do?" - Don't give up, just keep trying. Be persistent. Chase her a bit. But if it gets to the point where she's not laughing and embarassed, and instead she's getting upset - okay, back off. Oh well. Make a joke, apologize, and back to professionalism.

Those are the kinds of fantasies I have every single day. I imagine myself just walking into the supermarket on my break at lunch and going to the produce section and just walking around, filling a bag with whatever fruit I felt like that day, and then just walking right out of the store without paying - totally casual, like it was just totally normal. Why not? Nothing would happen. It's a busy supermarket. Even if someone was watching, I'm already gone. And they won't remember me. And even if they do - oh well. I'll make up some excuse. The worst that could happen is I can't shop there anymore. Besides, it's just a one time thing. I wouldn't do it everyday. Just once, just to break my own boundaries, just one time and never again, just to prove a point to myself.


----------



## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

Whether you've found your true self or not is irrelevant. These past few posts have been like watching someone walk into the sunshine from the shadows and not only enjoy the warmth but _know_, deep down, that he fucking deserves it. What an awesome and inspiring thing to witness.

Carpe diem, friend.


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

@ChanceyRose

Wow, that's... awesome. :blushed:

Thanks!

I'm actually glad that I get along with a lot of the INTJs here. I mean, considering that our functions imply we're the shadows of each other, it's impressive to me that my style of posting and expression isn't very draining to read. I would've assumed that it might be difficult to stomach for some INTJs.

Then again, I've read a few things that suggest that ENTPs actually make the best romantic partners for INTJs.

Maybe there's some truth to it?

Or, it could just be because I'm an enneagram type 9. It keep me at a low peaceful simmer so I'm not being annoyingly persistent and intentionally inflammatory. I've noticed that the more outgoing and confident ENTPs can be super-trolls a lot of the time, and the whole "LOOK HOW AWESOME I AM" routine starts to get pretty dull rather quickly.


----------



## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

Personally, I'll take an ENTP over an ENFP any day. I like the twinkle-in-the-eye, poking-fun-at-you-just-to-get-a-reaction kind of troll. Maybe it's cuz I grew up with brothers.

Anyway, I've never found your posts to be draining. Long, sometimes, but insightful. Even the ones where you seem to be drowning in self doubt are relatable. In a way, it's like you're comfortable saying what I _wish_ I could say so I find myself thinking 'yeah! what he said!' Must be the difference between the introvert and the extrovert.

I hope you keep coming to the INTJ subforum. I like the spice you bring. :happy:


----------



## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

I'd just like to add, after going back and re-reading this entire thread...

I had a feeling as soon as @_Action Potential_ took interest in this thread that she was going to make a contribution that was going to really open my eyes to something I was missing, and this belief stemmed from the way she reminded me of @_antiant_, another INTJ with the same uncanny insight.

Sure enough, her post triggered a series of realizations that led to me figuring this out for myself.

So now, I'm wondering. Was it a self-fulfilling prophecy, or am I just highly intuitive?

I think it's the same thing, actually. Maybe it's just a case of an intuition so strong, that you already know the answer before you really know that you know it, or precisely what it will be. Maybe intuition is a sort of cognitive bias that actually works out - it's illogical and irrational, and so it bypasses the whole critical thinking process and goes straight to the answer - but without that logical confirmation procedure, you might not ever recognize the validity of it, or be able to explain it even if you did.

I actually get feelings like this a lot, but I'm not assertive, so I tend to "wait and see" and miss the opportunity to act, or I analyze them reductio ad absurdum until I lose the original inspiration in a fog of philosophical introspection.

Also, @ChanceyRose, yeah I'm never leaving the INTJ sub-forum. It's actually my favorite sub-forum, from what I've read in others. INTPs are hyper-sensitive, believe it or not - you don't DARE criticize their rational analysis or offer some alternative perspective, or if you do, you better damn well be nice as fuck about it otherwise they turn into The Hulk with that inferior Fe rage, as you have thusly insulted their dominant function, and thus the center of their ego.

ENTJ forum is barren, because I guess all the ENTJs are off administrating space and time, and signing my paychecks.

The ENTP forum is probably my second favorite abode, but often I get put off by the gregarious attitudes I see there. It's highly competitive, and I get that - I feel it too - but, I'm "not ready" so to speak. I'll need to work up some confidence before I dive into that fray, but I predict that once I do, I'll feel right at home.

Which is ironic, because the INTJ forum is far more competitive, but in a more subtle way. The INTJ forum is more like the society of the Drow as described by R.A. Salvatore, with everyone suspicious of each other, peering behind the veil to see deeply into the motives and opinions of everyone else, trying to see so many moves ahead to be able to "win" in the end-game - which usually manifests as avoidance type behavior, or a highly condescending apathetic attitude. Both of which I admire a lot, and encourage a lot, since so much of the threads that get posted in that forum are borderline insulting, in my opinion.


----------



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

This whole thread makes me question my type even more now, or maybe I'm still in denial or something. 
But I'm glad you figured it out though. You've broken free of your shadow.


----------



## INTJellectual (Oct 22, 2011)

When I saw your type as an ENTP, I thought someone uses your username, lol. But I'm glad you've found your true self, from a terrifying gloomy crow to a wonderfully handsome enlightened man with a dimple


----------

