# SFJs and Communication Issues with NTs



## Ista (Feb 5, 2012)

From what I have experienced, a number of SJs seem to not explain the why, or communicate very well about problems to NTs.

What is this about? I'd think that keeping people posted about how things are being resolved would be Fe 101, but maybe it's really Fi 101.

I find that the SFJs I've encountered seem to find it nagging that they should need to keep people in the loop.

What do you think?


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

I think I can see where your coming from, My ESFJ buddy doesn’t have patience for explaining things to people she’s in conflict with. But if your in her good books she tells you everything. She enjoys the social aspect of conversation and isn’t into intellectual conversation that most NT tend to like. My ENTP crazy gives her something to bounce off which is why we work so well.


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## great_pudgy_owl (Apr 20, 2015)

I imagine it's because the NT doesn't seem to reciprocate or directly interact. 

I know often my family thinks I'm intentionally ignoring them or don't care, and at work I can be somewhat absent minded. From that perspective, if the person that the SJ perceives doesn't normally care now suddenly wants to know what's going on, it likely comes across as selfish, inconsistent, or even tyrannical...if the curiosity comes across as more of an expectation or demand to be in the loop.

SJs, am I hitting the right keys here?


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## contradictionary (Apr 1, 2018)

When in problem/trouble they are overwhelmed by their own surge of feelings. 

For NT who listen it could only get worse since in normal time (beyond problem/trouble) there are already miscommunications in place.

_Sent sans PC_


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## desire machine (Jan 13, 2015)

Ista said:


> From what I have experienced, a number of SJs seem to not explain the why, or communicate very well about problems to NTs.
> 
> What is this about? I'd think that keeping people posted about how things are being resolved would be Fe 101, but maybe it's really Fi 101.


I think people's communication skills have to do w/ E vs I more than anything else ... so whether they are a good at communicating has to do w/ whether Fe comes first or second in their stack. ESFJs(FeSi) great communicators ... ISFJs(SiFe) not so much. ENFPs (NeFi) great communicators ...INFP (FiNe) not so much.

I think any type can be good at standing up and talking/lecturing in front of others... but being able to tell what other people are thinking, how they're interpretting things in a different way, why they're confused etc. takes extroversion.

I have a friend whose ISFJ and communication is very difficult because I'll say something and he'll interpret it a different way than what I meant/won't understand what I'm saying... and it can be difficult/frustrating and require patience because I'll have to first help him to realize that the way he's interpretting what I said wasn't what I was trying to say, and then search for words and explanations that will allow him to connect w/ what I mean. Extroverts tend to think in terms of possibilities and are always open and searching for possibilities and what other people are thinking etc. whereas introverts tend to get tunnel vision on whatever possibility/interpretation that they have in their own mind. I think the most difficult/frustrating part isn't that the introvert doesn't understand, but rather their confidence that they understand something when they don't and they're misinterpretting what was intended to be communicated.

This sort of thing I don't think comes up all that much, big of an issue with just chatting etc. it's more when you're working on a project together and coordinating tasks that it really comes out.


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## Ista (Feb 5, 2012)

desire machine said:


> I think people's communication skills have to do w/ E vs I more than anything else ... so whether they are a good at communicating has to do w/ whether Fe comes first or second in their stack. ESFJs(FeSi) great communicators ... ISFJs(SiFe) not so much. ENFPs (NeFi) great communicators ...INFP (FiNe) not so much.
> 
> I think any type can be good at standing up and talking/lecturing in front of others... but being able to tell what other people are thinking, how they're interpretting things in a different way, why they're confused etc. takes extroversion.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response. I disagree. I know ESTJs and ENFPs who are appalling communicators.


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## desire machine (Jan 13, 2015)

Ista said:


> Thanks for your response. I disagree. I know ESTJs and ENFPs who are appalling communicators.


who do you think are the best and worst communicators? How would you rank the types?


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## Catandroid (Jul 9, 2018)

Ista said:


> From what I have experienced, a number of SJs seem to not explain the why, or communicate very well about problems to NTs.
> 
> [..]
> I find that the SFJs I've encountered seem to find it nagging that they should need to keep people in the loop.
> ...





Shrodingers drink said:


> [..] My ESFJ buddy doesn’t have patience for explaining things to people she’s in conflict with. But if your in her good books she tells you everything. She enjoys the social aspect of conversation and isn’t into intellectual conversation that most NT tend to like. My ENTP crazy gives her something to bounce off which is why we work so well.



They are SJs so it's best to talk about what they care about and you have to communicate.

Especially, with some, while being grounded.


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## italix (Sep 26, 2015)

desire machine said:


> I think people's communication skills have to do w/ E vs I more than anything else ... so whether they are a good at communicating has to do w/ whether Fe comes first or second in their stack. ESFJs(FeSi) great communicators ... ISFJs(SiFe) not so much. ENFPs (NeFi) great communicators ...INFP (FiNe) not so much.
> 
> I think any type can be good at standing up and talking/lecturing in front of others... but being able to tell what other people are thinking, how they're interpretting things in a different way, why they're confused etc. takes extroversion.
> 
> ...


I read the first paragraph and I disagreed as well, but as I continued I agreed with the theory behind it. I work with 90% SJs. Maybe it's just a dom Pi thing where I've noticed when I ask isfj a question sometimes it's like they don't listen to what I say and turn inward to what they think I'm going to ask. Then I get an answer that doesnt make any sense. This doesn't happen that frequently. I've also had this happen with esfj but it's significantly less.

My answer is purely looking at work situations where people are zoned into their project then I interrupt and they quickly respond. During a conversation for pleasure I'd be reversed where istj is probably better at listening and responding and the esfj is focused on talking in my experience.

Sent from my LM-V350 using Tapatalk


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## desire machine (Jan 13, 2015)

italix said:


> I read the first paragraph and I disagreed as well, but as I continued I agreed with the theory behind it. I work with 90% SJs. Maybe it's just a dom Pi thing where I've noticed when I ask isfj a question sometimes it's like they don't listen to what I say and turn inward to what they think I'm going to ask. Then I get an answer that doesnt make any sense. This doesn't happen that frequently. I've also had this happen with esfj but it's significantly less.
> 
> My answer is purely looking at work situations where people are zoned into their project then I interrupt and they quickly respond. During a conversation for pleasure I'd be reversed where istj is probably better at listening and responding and the esfj is focused on talking in my experience.
> 
> Sent from my LM-V350 using Tapatalk


"I've noticed when I ask isfj a question sometimes it's like they don't listen to what I say and turn inward to what they think I'm going to ask. Then I get an answer that doesnt make any sense. "

That sounds like the type of thing I was talking about w/ my ISFJ friend. I'll say something like "We should plug the computer in that outlet so it doesn't have to reach across the room." And he'll agree... and then plug it in a different outlet as if he wasn't listening or didn't understand. The thing is he is quick to act/express that he understands what I'm trying to communicate and he'll insistent that he understands but then it becomes apparent that he didn't and it can be difficult to get him to when he incorrectly thinks he understood everything perfectly.

Perhaps it wouldn't apply to an ISTJ and it's a matter of the ISFJ not being able to quickly take in T heavy convo. It may also have to do w/ friends unique personality. He's a bit head strong, so it could have a bit to do w/ his own confidence/stubbornness, though to me it does seem like an introverted thing.

It could also have to do w/ my own communication skills. Perhaps I'm not good at communicating to others and the ISFJ feigning understanding is more a matter of how he deals w/ my poor communication skills rather than how he acts in general w/ others.


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## Ista (Feb 5, 2012)

italix said:


> I read the first paragraph and I disagreed as well, but as I continued I agreed with the theory behind it. I work with 90% SJs. Maybe it's just a dom Pi thing where I've noticed *when I ask isfj a question sometimes it's like they don't listen to what I say and turn inward to what they think I'm going to ask. Then I get an answer that doesnt make any sense. *This doesn't happen that frequently. I've also had this happen with esfj but it's significantly less.
> 
> My answer is purely looking at work situations where people are zoned into their project then I interrupt and they quickly respond. During a conversation for pleasure I'd be reversed where istj is probably better at listening and responding and the *esfj is focused on talking in my experience.
> 
> *Sent from my LM-V350 using Tapatalk


This. 100 times this.


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## FueledByEvil (Aug 6, 2015)

Yes. Need t be careful as NT.
Easy to offend the SFJ's.

Any communication I have with SJ, for me only, comes down to 
trying to keep the feel of the conversation at room temperature.

Hard to explain really.


As a dynamic I must be sure to not push so far as to 
topple the emotional response. I need to recognize 
emotional cues. I need to (or best ought to) know the 
social stigma that may be attached to items I speak on.


The ESFJ's in my life (wife/son) have learned to be more 
short with me and have learned to drop pleasantries. They 
know that to push a point with me is to be to that point.
To lay it bare. They understand that I will not read into an
answer such as "thats fine". Even if I can or did. I do not 
like to assume. Especially with feelers.

It is not a one way street. Both types need to recognize.

My ESFJ wife can listen to me speak things now that 
20years ago would have crippled her emotionally. 

I am able to listen to her speak about social normalcies 
and actually hear what she is saying, indeed witness 
through time that she is right about most of that stuff.


It took some time. I dare not say I have SFJ's sorted. But I will 
say that the SFJ's in my life? Yeah, I got a good/great handle on 
it after this much time.


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## Curlijessi (Aug 26, 2019)

Yes! Good information. I agree with most who says they respond totally off topic but I want a good solution of how to speak to them. I have this uneasiness like Im afraid to hurt their feelings but at the same time a building frustration that they dont understand a word I said. Except for my father who I think is ISFJ and he communicates well and understands what I say. Hes the exception, not the rule.


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