# Depths of Ni



## Freeflowingthoughts (Jun 23, 2015)

I've recently descended back into the depths of my Ni. I now realise why I left. It is so fucking painful, especially when you mix in that Fi-. In a weird way, it makes me super cold, and dark, and that kind of scares me. It's interesting that Ni+ is described as a flow of time, and harmonious, and it is to a certain extent, but the nature of positivity means its direction is focused inward, and not 'seen' in the outerworld. Focusing inward is fucking scary and I'm reminded when I was younger, of having a singular, perfect thought in a crowded room. 

The combination of 4D Ni+ and Fi-, scares the living crap out of me. It was a home from which I had once escaped. Does this sound familiar to anyone?


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## Freeflowingthoughts (Jun 23, 2015)

Scale
+ sign - locality, the "big plan", concretization, detalization within the sphere of the function

Direction
+ sign - the orientation into the sphere of the responsibility of the function 

Scale
− sign - globality, "the general plan," universality of the function;

This translates to painting a broad brush into how people 'should be acting'. Having ridiculously high expectations, but ridiculously flawless logic with manners and empathy.

Direction

− sign - the orientation outside of the sphere of responsibility of the function (influence, "pressure" exerted on other "localities");

So this translates to observing Fi in the outerworld. If you're skeptical that an introverted function can be completely based in the outer world, the definition of Fi is "Internal static of _fields_".

Distance

− sign - "far" psychological distance.

A certain coldness, a certain objectivity, lack of prioritising or favouritism. Holding everyone to the same standard.


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

No and INFJ don't have Fi they have Fe


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Surreal Snake said:


> No and INFJ don't have Fi they have Fe


do you even Socionics?


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

Captain Mclain said:


> do you even Socionics?


Oh I just noticed we are in socionics my bad


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Surreal Snake said:


> Oh I just noticed we are in socionics my bad


please say. In Socionics the other 4 "function" is also used but unvalued but some of them is as strong as your strongest. And all the "functions" have a described purpose.


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## Freeflowingthoughts (Jun 23, 2015)

Surreal Snake said:


> No and INFJ don't have Fi they have Fe


This is Socionics.

Socionics - the16types.info - Dimensionality of Functions by Irina Eglit
Socionics - the16types.info - Signs of Functions (+/-)


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

Captain Mclain said:


> please say. In Socionics the other 4 "function" is also used but unvalued but some of them is as strong as your strongest. And all the "functions" have a described purpose.




Yeah I know thanks..I'm an IEI myself


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Ni is magic


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

so... Ni+ will branch a whole lot of scenarios and Fi- will focus on core relations? That what I come up with. Also the strength of IEI would be Fe, the triangle of Ni, Fi and Fe with Ni at the startingpoint right


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Freeflowingthoughts said:


> I've recently descended back into the depths of my Ni. I now realise why I left. It is so fucking painful, especially when you mix in that Fi-. In a weird way, it makes me super cold, and dark, and that kind of scares me. It's interesting that Ni+ is described as a flow of time, and harmonious, and it is to a certain extent, but the nature of positivity means its direction is focused inward, and not 'seen' in the outerworld. Focusing inward is fucking scary and I'm reminded when I was younger, of having a singular, perfect thought in a crowded room.
> 
> The combination of 4D Ni+ and Fi-, scares the living crap out of me. It was a home from which I had once escaped. Does this sound familiar to anyone?


Sounds familiar. Its a level of distance that is easy to achieve. All it takes is to focus on the belief that there is one "right" way to do things, that everyone should adhere to the way that you have seen.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

When a person believes they have seen all that the world is, that they understand the truth behind all things...and they are also cold and distant, merciless and alien...that is when a person can become a monster. Remember to keep a handle on who you are and what you represent if you fall into this pattern.

I went and pulled these for reference, since they are part of the main point and this sorta expands the data in the second post.

+ Ni - future, change in the situation over time, prediction, premonition, gradual development, evolution, gradual ascent, the dynamics of change, the flow of time, imagination, harmonious description, subtle step-by-step changes, convergence, confluence;
− Fi - poor relations, hatred, animosity, antipathy, repulsion, indifference in relations, alienation, unsociability, remote psychological distance, wickedness, mercilessness;
+ Fe - positive emotions, joy, merriment, emotional elation, excitement, a smile, laughter, enthusiasm, optimism, good mood, the experience of happiness;


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## Freeflowingthoughts (Jun 23, 2015)

Fenix Wulfheart said:


> When a person believes they have seen all that the world is, that they understand the truth behind all things...and they are also cold and distant, merciless and alien...that is when a person can become a monster. Remember to keep a handle on who you are and what you represent if you fall into this pattern.
> 
> I went and pulled these for reference, since they are part of the main point and this sorta expands the data in the second post.
> 
> ...


The funny thing is Fenix, I think we require Fi- in order to succeed. It's written that IEI tends to be very uncomfortable living an idealistic life, and yet, that's all we dream about. Think of Ghandi choosing to wander around in bare feet, making his own clothes. He was a wise man. We require a certain unfinishedness in the outside world, in order to achieve harmony within ourselves. Think Nelson Mandella, Ghandi, most successful IEIs, and their catalyst was the negative ethics of the outer world. The apartheid, English rule. In a weird way, and alternate take, I feel we're supposed to hold on to our inner vision of perfection, (Ni+) and use Fi- to sort out the right people from the wrong, so we can achieve it


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Freeflowingthoughts said:


> The funny thing is Fenix, I think we require Fi- in order to succeed. It's written that IEI tends to be very uncomfortable living an idealistic life, and yet, that's all we dream about. Think of Ghandi choosing to wander around in bare feet, making his own clothes. He was a wise man. We require a certain unfinishedness in the outside world, in order to achieve harmony within ourselves. Think Nelson Mandella, Ghandi, most successful IEIs, and their catalyst was the negative ethics of the outer world. The apartheid, English rule. In a weird way, and alternate take, I feel we're supposed to hold on to our inner vision of perfection, (Ni+) and use Fi- to sort out the right people from the wrong, so we can achieve it


That makes a lot of sense. Its also why we are very much inclined to see life as the journey, despite having a grand destination in mind. The ideal is wonderful, but it isn't real. And so we must do what we can to try to achieve it, and in so doing get some small piece of that golden dream.

This reminds me of something I said on utopia, to someone else. We were discussing the concept of an anarchic commune society where everyone always helps one another. Very Delta utopia, IMO.

"People don't do this, not as a whole society. It plays out over and over again in every society we build. The natural evolution of our society is to grow into stratified groups that stand against one another, not hold each other up. Even Switzerland isn't unified, no matter what they may want us to believe. It doesn't really happen. It's sad, really. People have an us vs them mentality, you know? My people first. That's how we are. We have altruism, yes, but when it comes down to it, I will help my family to live before that stranger from another tribe that might be dangerous. So will most people. And when you can do both, keep yourself safe and the strangers. You might do it. You might save that stranger, but that doesn't change the way people think. We have goodness, but we also have darkness, and only when people have NOTHING but goodwill for their fellow man could such a society thrive organically

It might thrive in a setting of misdirection, lies and misinformation by a central body, like a computer. But even then...I don't think it is likely. People will fight, people will struggle to achieve. It is in our nature. Its in ALL of nature, really. How many trees exist that have honestly never murdered a blade of grass or a shrub to conquer the sunlight available?

I believe that a TRUE utopia accounts for all of humanity's instincts. Which would mean the need to fight, to conquer, to rise above enemies and to rise above our own kind, all of these things are needed in a utopia.

Mostly, though, my idea of a utopia is not a peaceful place, but rather a place where there is a true understanding of one another. Right down to the needs of some for that struggle, and the needs of others for achieving more than their fellow men, and for others to have all their friends and family around them and taken care of and successful and happy. Its a world where anything is possible, and everyone can achieve not just what is possible but what they truly desire.

Some people take their sense of self esteem from what they accomplish, you know? When your accomplishment is your esteem, then it follows that the relative accomplishment of accomplishing more than another person indirectly affirms the accomplishment. Which is why some people always strive to have the best of everything, and people pay attention to who owns what, and what your belongings say about you. These are basic drives of people, stronger in some than in others, but many people's idea of a utopia is equality. Equality is the exact opposite of utopia for people who need to be better. The struggle is, thus, in itself, part of a true utopia. At least in my view. Similarly, some people detest the struggle. A utopia isn't EQUAL. It can't be and be everyone's utopia. So if we can't have an equal utopia...can we still have an IDEAL one?"


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Fenix Wulfheart said:


> When a person believes they have seen all that the world is, that they understand the truth behind all things...and they are also cold and distant, merciless and alien...that is when a person can become a monster. Remember to keep a handle on who you are and what you represent if you fall into this pattern.
> 
> I went and pulled these for reference, since they are part of the main point and this sorta expands the data in the second post.
> 
> ...


if we look at this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socionics fi is:


> Fi is responsible for understanding the quality, nature, and proper maintenance of personal relations; makes moral judgments; and aspires to humanism and kindness. Fi has a strong understanding of the social hierarchy and how people feel about each other, their attitudes of like or dislike, enthrallment or disgust, repulsion or attraction, enmity or friendship.


it is not so much about negative or positive emotions so much as persona relations, quality, social hierarchy, repulsion or attraction. I think your Fi+ is more some Fe spin actually. ;p

edit; nvm it actually was a Fe spin.


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Freeflowingthoughts said:


> The funny thing is Fenix, I think we require Fi- in order to succeed. It's written that IEI tends to be very uncomfortable living an idealistic life, and yet, that's all we dream about. Think of Ghandi choosing to wander around in bare feet, making his own clothes. He was a wise man. We require a certain unfinishedness in the outside world, in order to achieve harmony within ourselves. Think Nelson Mandella, Ghandi, most successful IEIs, and their catalyst was the negative ethics of the outer world. The apartheid, English rule. In a weird way, and alternate take, I feel we're supposed to hold on to our inner vision of perfection, (Ni+) and use Fi- to sort out the right people from the wrong, so we can achieve it


About Ghandi wandering on bare feet. There is a Swedish EIE that said somewhere that "It is good to have sandpaper in the shoes so that you know that you live. Such HA Se.


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