# Argumentative



## Elika (Feb 19, 2012)

Am I argumentative? Someone help me find out. My Dad claims I am. I try to describe my feelings. (I am a very complex person, overly complex to him) He makes some statement/assumption that isn't true. Then he starts elaborating on something that makes no sense what so ever (he has such a big mouth, I have to wait forever before he finishes what he MUST say for some reason, which is complete nonsense!) I try to interrupt him so I can correct him about how I feel. (the topic is about me!) I have to raise my voice because he is stubborn to stop talking even if he's unknowingly making me feel insulted because what he says just isn't true! And he wants to force what I am suppose to do on me! But his idea is so STUPID. (he didn't understand my feelings at all!) W switch him onto the right path the conversation has already ready to end badly with him saying never mind. You are so argumentative. Nobody knows me better than me. Of course if he starts imposing his false views on me, I'm going to react. I'm not going to just shut up. This causes me serious problems because my Dad just doesn't know me at all. Or at least as much as he should. We are family! Our relationship need to be perfect. I can't tell him about how I struggle this way. I have this urge to avoid him whenever he's around because he's going to start talking to me and I don't like it. I'm pretty sure it's his fault. My Mom and Brother feel the same way. He hates complication and who wouldn't wish everything could just stay simple but work out. Something just have to get complicated before they get fixed. No big deal. He's happier with everything being wrong and this occurring all the time. How am I the one being argumentative? If he made a wrong judgement about me when I'm clearly under so much stress in life shouldn't he apologize and back down? I find him so ignorant and rude when he walks off with me being the one feeling bad (he doesn't seem to care about how much I want us to understand each other. I care way more than him) and he's muttering about how big of a problem this is (as if it's my fault), and it is a problem! It really is! And I want to fix it. Is it my fault? I want to cry now. He'd rather leave this issue alone for the rest of the time I live under his roof than let the whole thing get too complicated. He says I'm forceful! He's the one downplaying my feelings and arguing back about MYSELF? what kind of a person is this? I have the lowest voice in the world (he accused me of yelling). My voice was irritated (as anyone's would) but quiet!


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## qingdom (Apr 5, 2011)

Slow down. Breathe. Insert paragraph breaks. and breathe again.


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## Elika (Feb 19, 2012)

qingdom said:


> Slow down. Breathe. Insert paragraph breaks. and breathe again.


I'm jealous of those really nice looking dads in front of my school. They are not only gentle and overly tender with their daughter (which I don't care about), they understand, they can put themselves in their daughters shoes in a way my Dad will never will be able to. Should I give up and just not talk to him? He can have me with him and get to know me. He can't just grab me and kiss me like his little girl and expect me to be that cute little girl that is simple and smiley and doesn't talk and agrees with everything he says. Like a puppet. He's gross. Just like with my Mom, he doesn't like simple women he says, they are stupid. But the one's who are smart happen to be sharp my mom. We don't shut up. .... OHHHH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN, I just feel like he doesn't deserve someone who isn't stupid. He can't have it both ways, that's cheating. Get a non-airhead and try to shove them to the floor! Who does he think he is? A GOD? He's a short ugly, short term memory guy who couldn't pass the medical exam!!! And he married a woman 13 year younger than him and he can't accommodate anything for me and my bro. Like my friends. Crying.....


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## Elika (Feb 19, 2012)

Well I'm not smart but......

Anyways.

Maybe I should try to understand that it's very hard for him to deal with complicated things. It's too much for his mind to handle, me and my Mom both feel that way. For him it's 100x larger, it's so hard for him he's rather let it go on all wrong because that's easier for him than staying on topic. But he could be modest and admit that he doesn't like this because he's...... He thinks he's the smartest person in the world.


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## theorycraft (Feb 27, 2012)

LilyAskar said:


> blah blah blah We are family! Our relationship need to be perfect. blah blah blah


LilyAskar, have you considered the fact that your dad may be an asshole? I think if you change the way you view your father you would feel better. Families are not perfect, they are far from it. I would go as to say that family members tend to become too comfortable around one another and lose sight of the boundaries and respect that is expected from them. Have you tried addressing this to your dad? If he responds in a dismissive way, then you may need assistance from the rest of your family. Btw you sound super INFJ in your post.


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## Strider95 (Jan 19, 2012)

How old are you?

Calm down, take a deep breath and realize that life is not perfect for anyone. He is not who you want him to be, but at the same time you are not who HE wants to be ...

Understand that you don't really have to blow your mind over such things ... it's a simple matter of conflicting opinions. This is how life is, it will almost never turn out the way you expect it to.

Few people if any have perfect relationships with their parents. So calm down, it's normal to have conflicts, that's how we grow.

And you gotta see things also from his PoV. He dislikes complexity, and you are complex. He maybe tries to understand you, and in doing so may oversimplify you. He maybe is also afraid of not being able to understand you and thus making hasty decions in his confusion ...

In short, don't lose your peace of mind over it.


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## Elika (Feb 19, 2012)

theorycraft said:


> LilyAskar, have you considered the fact that your dad may be an asshole? I think if you change the way you view your father you would feel better. Families are not perfect, they are far from it. I would go as to say that family members tend to become too comfortable around one another and lose sight of the boundaries and respect that is expected from them. Have you tried addressing this to your dad? If he responds in a dismissive way, then you may need assistance from the rest of your family. Btw you sound super INFJ in your post.


My Dad isn't... He has such a good heart but he's so rough with me sometimes. At least for my standards. I'm quite easily hurt, depending on what issue it's about. If it's about my intelligence well, I'll die. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. He has no boundaries. Don't you see that what I'm struggling with is that it's already so hard for me to try and yet I still have the will to do so and I get dismissed and insulted. (in my opinion, not his.) There is nobody to help me. I have a Mother who already tells him, he doesn't change for long. And a brother with Asperger syndrome. He even slaps me on the butt when I'm passing and I don't feel disturbed (no way it's sexual, believe me, I know) but super annoyed and I try to tell him and he laughs. (only because he doesn't get it) I have a serious expressions but he thinks he's confused me in a cute feminine way. As if I'm some air-head girl. It doesn't matter what expressions I make, he still thinks he "got me". Proves how stupid he is. I hate and love him. Makes it worse.

......Yeah, my personality keeps flipping back and forth but I think it's like that for everyone. Everyone changes once in a while. I'm not sure about my personality type but I never thought INFJ. Depending on the person people see me as INTJ, INTP, or INFP. I think this topic may make me seem an INFJ.... I mood swing back and forth. Maybe my personality has not fully developed yet because I'm not an adult so it swing back and forth? I really don't know. I'm definitely very intellectual though..... I'm not organized enough in anyway to be a J.... Or at least I think. INTP descriptions tend to match me perfect though..... Like pretty much picture perfect... Don't you think if I was a feeler I'd feel more sorry for my Dad and back off? I admit I don't leave things alone enough, but what I say is true. I can't stand it if it's unsettled. But F's tend to be more...avoid-ant of conflict? Unless I think I'm at risk or feeling very socially phobic at the time I usually go straight into the conflict one on one.


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## Elika (Feb 19, 2012)

Strider95 said:


> How old are you?
> 
> Calm down, take a deep breath and realize that life is not perfect for anyone. He is not who you want him to be, but at the same time you are not who HE wants to be ...
> 
> ...


I'm 16 if you meant literally. Yes I mentioned that I may just be too much for him. But don't you see? These are my values. He is suppose to back down, it's very rude not to do so! We are talking about me! Isn't it considered rude to be called SIMPLE? He should have some modesty if he can't GET STUFF. And my Mom too! She's worth more than him in society!


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## 172harmonic (Jan 19, 2012)

You seem really stressed. (I think I deserve the pointless statement award... What's that? There is no pointless statement award?) Back on track though what was the exact situation that triggered this rant?


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## Elika (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm not going to tell you because you will think it's stupid. It was something small that reminded me about a lot of things. It was a big argument over something small because today I decided that I'm not going to allow myself to bundle up my feelings and feel bad. I have to make him get me and let things out. I have to express myself instead of suffer like last year. It was a build up. If I tell you what started this one you will think it's my fault. I needed to clear everything so I didn't give him an edge this time.


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## Vaan (Dec 19, 2010)

There are two things here.

Firstly I believe that you may be a HSP (Highly Sensitive Person) which could explain the extreme emotional outbursts. Secondly I believe that if you draw issue with his nonchalant nature then adress it. Perhaps write him a letter and ask him to read it and walk away, or some other indirect method so that you can get the message fully to him without being overshadowed or succumbing to frustration


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## 172harmonic (Jan 19, 2012)

LilyAskar said:


> I'm not going to tell you because you will think it's stupid. It was something small that reminded me about a lot of things. It was a big argument over something small because today I decided that I'm not going to allow myself to bundle up my feelings and feel bad. I have to make him get me and let things out. I have to express myself instead of suffer like last year. It was a build up. If I tell you what started this one you will think it's my fault. I needed to clear everything so I didn't give him an edge this time.


 I understand this from what I've read it seems INTP's are the most prone to anger or frustration brought forth by multitudes of built up events rather than just one key big thing.


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## Strider95 (Jan 19, 2012)

LilyAskar said:


> I'm 16 if you meant literally. Yes I mentioned that I may just be too much for him. But don't you see? These are my values. He is suppose to back down, it's very rude not to do so! We are talking about me! Isn't it considered rude to be called SIMPLE? He should have some modesty if he can't GET STUFF. And my Mom too! She's worth more than him in society!


Hmm... it must be hard for you. Maybe you should try having a 'heart to heart' with your mother when he's not around?

EDIT : Yes, I meant your age literally, I'm not one to insult people by comparing their mental age with adolescents or whatever.


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## QuietStorm (Mar 17, 2012)

So... your question was..... "are you argumentative?"
That's more than just 'will you defend your points and opinions' ... it's 'will you go out of your way to create a situation that will require an argument or will split people into groups and sides?'

As far as I'm concerned, you don't seem to be argumentative, just frustrated. I would recommend not giving in to this kind of situation. If you don't like what is being said, tune it out to the best of your abilities. Not every argument or point is worth being argued over. If it's something you have to do that you don't like, do it if it isn't against your principles, and if it is, don't do it. That's how I've had to deal with my parents and relatives. My mom and her brother are like that. They argue for sport and their opinions are NOT in line with mine, but I can't get on their case about everything, and I can't refuse to do everything they tell me to. It's pointless and a waste of effort.


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## nadjasix (Jun 14, 2011)

This thread is weird and disturbing.


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## Mark Novbett (Apr 3, 2012)

@LilyAskar: Are you a teenager? "School" reference. I confess, I skimmed most things here. But reading your OP, my suggestion would be, ask him what type he is.

It will all make sense.

We all seem argumentative, specially pre 21-25. Afterwards, from my own experience, I have learned to pick my debates. It's not an argument, it's a debate.


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## Elika (Feb 19, 2012)

Mark Novbett said:


> @LilyAskar: Are you a teenager? "School" reference. I confess, I skimmed most things here. But reading your OP, my suggestion would be, ask him what type he is.
> 
> It will all make sense.
> 
> We all seem argumentative, specially pre 21-25. Afterwards, from my own experience, I have learned to pick my debates. It's not an argument, it's a debate.


Yeah, it's really not. He feels that it's an argument rather than a debate because he's stupid. I'm believe he is an ESTJ... Definetely an ES at least.


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## Elika (Feb 19, 2012)

Yes I'm 16.


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## Deathbagel (Feb 18, 2012)

To be honest, I didn't actually read the text here, but to answer the thread title's implied question, yes I'm fairly argumentative. I'm not aggressive or angry about it, but I just like arguing, and I often debate fiercely with my parents even when I do agree with them (which isn't very often anyways). It's annoying when they think I'm attacking them personally when I'm really just bored.


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## BUtheBabyUnicorn (Oct 4, 2011)

LilyAskar said:


> Am I argumentative? Someone help me find out. My Dad claims I am. I try to describe my feelings. (I am a very complex person, overly complex to him) He makes some statement/assumption that isn't true. Then he starts elaborating on something that makes no sense what so ever (he has such a big mouth, I have to wait forever before he finishes what he MUST say for some reason, which is complete nonsense!) I try to interrupt him so I can correct him about how I feel. (the topic is about me!) I have to raise my voice because he is stubborn to stop talking even if he's unknowingly making me feel insulted because what he says just isn't true! And he wants to force what I am suppose to do on me! But his idea is so STUPID. (he didn't understand my feelings at all!) W switch him onto the right path the conversation has already ready to end badly with him saying never mind. You are so argumentative. Nobody knows me better than me. Of course if he starts imposing his false views on me, I'm going to react. I'm not going to just shut up. This causes me serious problems because my Dad just doesn't know me at all. Or at least as much as he should. We are family! Our relationship need to be perfect. I can't tell him about how I struggle this way. I have this urge to avoid him whenever he's around because he's going to start talking to me and I don't like it. I'm pretty sure it's his fault. My Mom and Brother feel the same way. He hates complication and who wouldn't wish everything could just stay simple but work out. Something just have to get complicated before they get fixed. No big deal. He's happier with everything being wrong and this occurring all the time. How am I the one being argumentative? If he made a wrong judgement about me when I'm clearly under so much stress in life shouldn't he apologize and back down? I find him so ignorant and rude when he walks off with me being the one feeling bad (he doesn't seem to care about how much I want us to understand each other. I care way more than him) and he's muttering about how big of a problem this is (as if it's my fault), and it is a problem! It really is! And I want to fix it. Is it my fault? I want to cry now. He'd rather leave this issue alone for the rest of the time I live under his roof than let the whole thing get too complicated. He says I'm forceful! He's the one downplaying my feelings and arguing back about MYSELF? what kind of a person is this? I have the lowest voice in the world (he accused me of yelling). My voice was irritated (as anyone's would) but quiet!


You're a teenager. Your dad is the father of a teenage girl who he probably doesn't understand at all. If you were like him, had his values, and was in his shoes, then what would you do? He might be stressed by trying to comprehend you.
You're also a teenage girl. Teenagers tend to go head-to-head with their parents.
And families are definitely not perfect. You seem more idealistic than you appear to be argumentative.

And I don't know if I'm argumentative or not. I honestly care so little about most things that I just don't bother with arguing. Then again, I guess that would classify me as not argumentative.


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