# What is sp-last?



## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

I do know this would apply to the so/sx and sx/so stacking. But, I don't think it has to with things like difficulty managing finances, health, etc. that is typically described.

*Anyone so/sx or sx/so care to describe what it is that you find disagreeable, have difficulty dealing with, or tend to avoid?*


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Well, I guess so/sx and sx/so individuals don't find anything disagreeable or difficult and avoid nothing (except this thread). :tongue:


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Self-discipline is my biggest weakness. My sleep schedule as all over the place and I sometimes forget to eat. Don't even get me started on my less than desirable credit history. :tongue:


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Myoho Traveller said:


> Self-discipline is my biggest weakness. My sleep schedule as all over the place and I sometimes forget to eat. Don't even get me started on my less than desirable credit history. :tongue:


I don't think that's exclusive to sp-last though. I know people who are not sp-last who have those problems as well. What I've noticed is that physiological and financial difficulties happen for every instinctual stacking. So, I'm trying to nail down what is uniquely last for so/sx or sx/so that distinguish sp-last from non sp-last.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

I mentioned this in the other thread. My drive for managing finances and health does not come from self preservation but rather is channelled through social 4 shame of "I don't want people to think I'm the kind of failure who can't manage my health and finances." I have very little desire to do these things for the sole sake of doing them. I find them furiously boring. I'm not interested in securing my own future as such, except as it concerns larger goals, like my ability to attract and connect with people I care about and my ability to affect meaningful change in the world around me.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

chimeric said:


> My drive for managing finances and health does not come from self preservation but rather is channelled through social 4 shame of "I don't want people to think I'm the kind of failure who can't manage my health and finances." ...I'm not interested in securing my own future as such, except as it concerns larger goals, like my ability to attract and connect with people I care about and my ability to affect meaningful change in the world around me.


That's why I don't think things like finances and health are indicators of sp. People managing those things are doing that for a variety of reasons (could be sp, sx, or so reasons) - that alone is insufficient to define sp. It's something else. 

I can mostly see how sp plays out in sp-first or second, but I'm not sure how it plays out in sp-last.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

enneathusiast said:


> That's why I don't think things like finances and health are indicators of sp. People managing those things are doing that for a variety of reasons (could be sp, sx, or so reasons) - that alone is insufficient to define sp. It's something else.
> 
> I can mostly see how sp plays out in sp-first or second, but I'm not sure how it plays out in sp-last.


Like I said, it plays out in focusing on sx and so goals primarily, and not much valuing...preserving yourself, except as a means to get those sx and so goals met.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

chimeric said:


> Like I said, it plays out in focusing on sx and so goals primarily, and not much valuing...preserving yourself, except as a means to get those sx and so goals met.


Just as the sexual instinct is not literally about sex, I don't believe the self-preservation is literally about self-preservation. So to say that sp-last is about not valuing self-preservation is like saying sx-last is about not valuing sex.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

enneathusiast said:


> I don't think that's exclusive to sp-last though. I know people who are not sp-last who have those problems as well. What I've noticed is that physiological and financial difficulties happen for every instinctual stacking. So, I'm trying to nail down what is uniquely last for so/sx or sx/so that distinguish sp-last from non sp-last.


Yes, I find that there is a great deal of confusion about this in the concept of the stackings. Based on this, I clearly AM Sp last.

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagram-personality-theory-forum/118168-resource-thread-instinctual-variants-stackings.html



SP last said:


> SP blind spot - lack of solid foundation, lack in comfort and coziness,* lack in attention to health and upkeep, since these people are rarely concerned about sp matters. There is fear is of being an "eternal child" who won’t take care of ones’ self and expectation of failure in dealing with sp instinct.* They tend to look down on sp-domain, express certain cynicism towards it e.g. state that sp-firsts are too fearful and “don’t know how to really live".
> 
> 
> More on SP blind spot
> ...


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

My thoughts in blue.



Myoho Traveller said:


> > * lack in attention to health and upkeep, since these people are rarely concerned about sp matters.
> > *
> 
> 
> ...


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

I'm browsing through the International Personality Item Pool (IPIP) to try and find some things that might be close to what sp-last experiences in regard to the sp instinct.

Ideas I had while looking through the NEO facets:

Not sociable, not friendly, too serious, keeps others at a distance, too closed, too private

Not cooperative, not participating, not a team player (perhaps that "doesn't play well with others checkbox" on the Kindergarten report card)

Boring, dislike of routines, lonely, playing it too safe


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

enneathusiast said:


> My thoughts in blue.


So, basically what you're saying is that you disagree with quote I posted? You're not alone; some people see the instincts being mixed up with cognitive functions.


I'm still pretty sure that I'm SO first but depending on what constitutes the SP definition could make it second or third in my stacking.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

enneathusiast said:


> Just as the sexual instinct is not literally about sex, I don't believe the self-preservation is literally about self-preservation. So to say that sp-last is about not valuing self-preservation is like saying sx-last is about not valuing sex.


I think it is, though, or it wouldn't be called self-preservation. Just that the way preservation of the self manifests depends on the individual, and for some it's about less obvious things than health or finances. That's why it can be hard to say what exactly sp or sp-last is, because it varies from person to person. However I do think saying that self-pres isn't about self-pres is making this harder than it needs to be.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Nonsense said:


> Just that the way preservation of the self manifests depends on the individual, and for some it's about less obvious things than health or finances. That's why it can be hard to say what exactly sp or sp-last is, because it varies from person to person. However I do think saying that self-pres isn't about self-pres is making this harder than it needs to be.


So it sounds like what you're saying is that the self-preservation instinct is different for everyone therefore the best we can do is simply describe it as self-preservation and leave it at that. To call it anything else just complicates understanding it.

Here's the dictionary definition of self-preservation:
_the preservation of oneself from danger or injury, esp as a basic instinct_

If this is the sp definition then I don' see how roughly one-third of people can be considered sp-last (so/sp and sx/so).

What I really think is that just like every other label used with the Enneagram, the self-preservation label has to be clarified and understood beyond the generally accepted definition. It's like saying that if you're a Perfectionist then you must be a type 1, a Helper then you must be a type 2, an Artist then you must be a type 4, etc. If that were true we wouldn't need any Enneagram books, teachers, tests, etc. because everyone would know their type by just reading the label.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

enneathusiast said:


> I'm browsing through the International Personality Item Pool (IPIP) to try and find some things that might be close to what sp-last experiences in regard to the sp instinct.
> 
> Ideas I had while looking through the NEO facets:
> 
> ...


Oh it's not alllll negative. Add "mysterious," "intriguing," and "admirably skilled at things I suck at" to the list.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

chimeric said:


> Oh it's not alllll negative. Add "mysterious," "intriguing," and "admirably skilled at things I suck at" to the list.


Interesting thought. Is someone sp-last going to see sp as alluring in the positive or more distancing in a negative way?

I think others who aren't sp-last may sometimes find the sp "mysterious' or "intriguing", but I wonder if sp-last sees it more as simply "challenging."

Not sure what the last one in your reply meant - just humor or sarcasm I'm guessing.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

enneathusiast said:


> Not sure what the last one in your reply meant - just humor or sarcasm I'm guessing.


Just that sp-firsts are good at the things I'm bad at.

I don't find sps off-putting. I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with an sp/so I reckon (particularly if they were an IxTx), but beyond that, no problems.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

chimeric said:


> Just that sp-firsts are good at the things I'm bad at.


Like what? That's what I was trying to get at in this post - what do sp-lasts have difficulty with?


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## chicklit (Feb 28, 2014)

I have difficulties caring about stuff like health, sports and diets. My knees are kind of twisted and I only have to do like 3 exercises a day to get them even again, but I just can't get myself to care. Other people care more about my health than I do, kind of sad actually. Apart from that I just eat whatever and whenever I feel like, and I drink way too little. I just tend to forget about that.


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## Lunar Light (Jun 6, 2013)

enneathusiast said:


> I'm browsing through the International Personality Item Pool (IPIP) to try and find some things that might be close to what sp-last experiences in regard to the sp instinct.
> 
> Ideas I had while looking through the NEO facets:
> 
> ...


Didn't post on this thread until now despite being sp-last (so/sx) because I didn't think I had anything new to contribute, but perhaps I can be of use now that you have something I can work with.

I feel like I can connect the things you've listed to sp-firsts and seconds, but some of it seems to have a bias for so-lasters, especially the second line of your description. To a certain extent, there still seems to be a bit of a disconnect that clicks with what you've posted, but so/sp and sp/so individuals will probably be less likely to be uncooperative, etc. On another note, I'm not sure what you mean by "dislike of routines" as I get the sense that the sp instinct favors the familiar. Explain please?

But like I said, I think I can mostly relate other than that. In my experience, those that have the sp instinct in their stackings do seem closed off and enjoy a certain amount of space (in every sense of that word), one that I can't really understand. There is also this cautiousness in them that seems to follow the idea of the dictionary definition you posted:



enneathusiast said:


> Here's the dictionary definition of self-preservation:
> _the preservation of oneself from danger or injury, esp as a basic instinct_
> 
> If this is the sp definition then I don' see how roughly one-third of people can be considered sp-last (so/sp and sx/so).


True, this awareness of potential danger/injury doesn't have to be like physical safety and I know the sp instinct is more than simply that - it involves emotional aspects as well. 

For a while, that confused me because I felt like I could relate to that (yet I'm a so/sx). I mean it sort of seems like a "shouldn't everyone?" thing. And I do think everyone self-preserves, just not necessarily in the ways that sp instinct is generally described. For example, I feel like I self-preserve through _a lot _of connection and interaction with others because I feel like that's necessary for my health and happiness.

So what's the difference? I feel like that perhaps it's in the approach. Those that have the sp instinct appear to be acutely aware of how something will affect them, and I'd argue that I do too, but the thing is these potential consequences don't really have an effect on my behavior or actions whereas it does for them. 

Sp seems to be more contained because it doesn't want to hastily and thoughtlessly disturb the sort of "order" they've got going for them. It's not that I'm so ignorant that I don't pay attention to consequences, but that I just don't view things so painstakingly. In my desire to satisfy my so and sx instincts, I am willing to risk the harm and misfortune that may come my way...in fact, I think I'm so occupied by how I will be fulfilled by those instincts that I don't center my sights on how it will necessarily relate back to my sp instinct. Which sounds a bit ridiculous, I think, but is true for me, and I really do see a marked contrast between me and my sp-first and sp-second friends in the way I've mentioned here.

By the way, I don't necessarily view the sp instinct negatively. I just don't think I understand it very well because it doesn't manifest in me in at all the ways it does for others and as such it can easily be a drain/cumbersome. It can be "alluring" or "mysterious" in a sense, as chimeric mentioned, but as a sp-last, I don't think that a sp-dom is preferable for me. The balance of the relationship always seems off because our focuses never truly coincide, I think.


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