# SPs and Conflict with the Education System



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

I'm curious if any SPs have thoughts on the education system. I live in America, TN to be exact. My mom is a teacher at the local alternative school and every semester, the guidance counselor does the MBTI test for her class. She told me, the other day, that the majority of her students are Ps which makes her wonder how difficult it is for Ps to function in regular school. Although some would be NPs, I would predict the majority of those Ps are probably SPs, which STPs being the most likely to go to alternative schools. This is simply because Ti does not want to be bossed around and Se makes rebellion manifest more physically. As an Ne dom, my form of rebellion was more subtle, as I'd be more coy in showing dissatisfaction with authority. In HS, the boys had to tuck in their t-shirt. I didn't mind as it was meaningless to me, but my STP classmates were the most likely to defiantly walk around with theirs untucked. Of course, this does not send kids to alternative school, but I would estimate that SPs were more willing to push the buttons of school administrators.

From my experience, school was tailored to SJ types, considering they make up 40-45% of the population. NJs and NPs can often find their niche as well. The system, at least in my region, seems to be stacked against SPs, which make up 30-35% of the population. Many of the SPs I went to school with were intelligent, yet the tasks and homework were repetition based, which is more Si friendly. At least in HS, there were classes for vocational interests like auto shop, home eco, metals, etc. Of course, plenty of SPs went to college as well. Although stereotypical, I would estimate most SPs are kinesthetic learners. This means that learning is accomplished from doing. 

Any SPs have thoughts on how the education system helps or hurts young SPs?


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

I am a tactile/aural learner, which means that I learn by doing and that music really helps.
I remember schoolwork as being really tedious.
I spent a lot of time staring longingly out the window.
I was happiest when we went outside.
Away from the classroom.
Away from the loudspeaker and that painful feedback and the sharp as knives voices.
I also have auditory and sensory processing disorders.
Outside is good.
Nature walks to explore the woods.
Walking down the street to explore social interactions.
Figuring out distances to explore numbers.
Watching the clouds.
Going to the river, the park, anywhere.
And when inside...
art, music, dance.
The gym is OK...
but... oh... those whistles...
And, when we have to memorize stuff...
turn it into a song.
I would sing it over and over...
like the alphabet song.


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

Here is another idea.
A few years ago, I heard a story about a great teacher.
This teacher said that the students would travel the world in a year without ever leaving the school.
At the beginning of the year, they got ready for their journey and figured out everything that they would need to take with them for a round the world trip.
They traveled from country to country.
They learned about the history of the country, the customs, the games, every day life. They tasted the food. 
Then they went on to a different country.
I'm not sure of how many countries they visited in a year.
I know that they visited Greece.
They had the Olympics, outside.
They told the stories.
They played the games.
They competed.
They enjoyed themselves so much that they didn't realize that they were learning history, writing, reading, math, science, spelling, etc.
At the end of the school year, they arrived home.
They were happy.


----------



## tobias_catalyst (Jan 14, 2016)

I recently graduated high school and I am currently a college freshman majoring in mechanical engineering. I live in TN too. I do have a problem the education system. I'd say that some of it was my fault, but most of it is the systems. I always defied the uniform rules and wore things out of dress code. This stuff always had me in the office and since my school used corporal punishment, i got paddled a lot. As far as learning and classroom settings, I blame the system. I was put in the special kids group for a while. It's not that I don't learn, they just fail to make it engaging. They are quick to label us with add and stuff. They may deem us unintelligent but I still graduated in the top 25 percent of my class cause i passed all the projects and exams. So i do say the system fail to engage us and if I day so myself, they know this and don't care. I also think that there is sexism against the male students. I don't know about the schools in your area of TN, but they have it out for us. They didn't answer our questions, made us all shit in the back. Call me crazy, but most of the teachers are female and they purposely fail us. The teachers and the female students they let grade the assignments would mark all of my answers wrong, but when I compare my assignments with the female students, we'll have the same answers but all of mine would be wrong and theirs right. I would try to inform the higher ups but they were no help at all.

I'm in college now and I say it's a lot better now. I don't think being able to wear what I want has anything to do with it, but my grades improved a lot and I'm on dean's list. There's no sex bias so the expectations for both sexes are the same. I can see how what I learn will be applied to real life. College is a lot better than high school.


----------



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

@tobias_catalyst I'm from Nashville area and graduated from MTSU. You're doing Mechanical Engineering. Are you at TTU?


----------



## tobias_catalyst (Jan 14, 2016)

Drunk Parrot said:


> @tobias_catalyst I'm from Nashville area and graduated from MTSU. You're doing Mechanical Engineering. Are you at TTU?


I'm attending University of Memphis


----------



## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

I bought a book about personality type and education. The vast majority of kids (90%) who go to alternative high school programs are SPs. SPs are underrepresented in the ranks of teachers, whereas SJs are overrepresented.

Looking at my data, they surveyed 804 elementary teachers. The ratio of representation compared to MBTI population numbers as a whole:

ISFP: 0.20 (so only 1/5 of the expected amount of teachers are ISFP)
ISTP: 0.32
ESFP: 0.67
ESTP: 0.20


----------



## Parrot (Feb 22, 2015)

bigstupidgrin said:


> I bought a book about personality type and education. The vast majority of kids (90%) who go to alternative high school programs are SPs. SPs are underrepresented in the ranks of teachers, whereas SJs are overrepresented.


My ISFJ mom is teaching a bunch of SPs ha. I talked to her today and she was saying she had a problem with this kid in her 4th block. He's argumentative and pushes her buttons. My initial thought was an ESTP that wants her to meet him on equal levels. Alternative schools, however, seemed to be designed to turn SPs into SJs, which of course doesn't happen. I suggested for her to engage him, especially considering the class is sociology. She doesn't have time because she also has to teach World History at the same time. Thus, she or another teacher will probably right him up, at some point, he'll get expelled, and a smart ESTP will be shit out of luck.

I'm going to go out on a limb, but I picture an xSTP male when I think of someone who dropped out of school and went into drug crime. School tries to force them into being SJs, while at least on the streets they can use their Se and Ti. The issue isn't learning personal accountability. Especially since that personal accountability was really just STJ administators lecturing STPs. I can't blame the former as it's not like they know about personality types. They probably just use DISC which is useless. 

I like what @walking tourist had to say. So many people make a living doing typical Se activities. People grow up to be dancers but in school they were trained to be accountants. My ISFP brother is a volleyball coach and runs a satelite branch for a traveling club team. He's also a server but we eventually turn volleyball into a career. The best thing he could learn in school was basic clerical administration. There were many other more useful subjects that he could have learned.


----------



## aquaswim (Jan 18, 2016)

I myself was homeschooled for K-12. I really enjoyed that as it was much easier for me to get a focus on courses I liked. Also, it made me get stuff done. I wanted to go play outside, then I better finish my English lesson. 

For college, I got an undergrad in Biology and I am currently working on my masters in Math. It's mainly because I didn't know what I wanted to do for a career. I was getting so tired of trying to plan out my career. I finally decided to just get my degree and apply for jobs. 

I think SP's may have a harder time adapting to strict education systems. I just approach it more from a go with the flow standpoint. I can force myself to follow silly rules for a time and just say whatever. I do have my stubborn moments though.


----------

