# Heavy depression & NT's



## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

I've had existential crisises for as long as I can literally remember. I broke down at 7 because the universe was vast and huge and we were nothing. Life had no meaning except living and reproducing then dying. We die and feed the soil and plants and that's pretty much it. 

I wonder (and think) that ntps may be prone to chronic and deep depression. Perhaps this is an odd judgment and certainly doesn't imply that to be an NT one must be depressed. however, it seems to go hand and hand with overthinking everything. I'm not sure. 

My parents have asked me why I was depressed at times (although I'm depressed chronically and it's not a feeling or reaction, it's more a state of existence....probably tied with severe nihilism. I'm not honestly sure. I can experience "happiness" sure, but like I said, the depression isn't actually "sadness" it's severe apathy. I don't think my medication was helping. I've taken it for years. Lately (the last year or so) I've experienced stronger symptoms. 

My doctor/therapist recently asked me how I was doing. It took me forever to answer. I seriously had to think about it....I'm really not sure if I'm actually depressed, or just an extreme nihilist. That's how I answered. He laughed for awhile and apparently finds my humor funny at least. 


Has anyone else experienced this? What are your thoughts? 

Thanks.


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## Laze (Feb 19, 2015)

Three cheers for nihilism! Though despite acknowledging that nothing has any actual value or meaning I'm still not going to do fuck all for the rest of my life. I have a human brain which deterministically forces me to enjoy and be interested by certain things, due to that I may as well use this existence I've been given to check some of them out.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Laze said:


> Three cheers for nihilism! Though despite acknowledging that nothing has any actual value or meaning I'm still not going to do fuck all for the rest of my life. I have a human brain which deterministically forces me to enjoy and be interested by certain things, due to that I may as well use this existence I've been given to check some of them out.


That's a better way to live, sure. I still experience interests, happiness, ect. Human emotions aren't exactly what I'm referring to. As a state of being though, do you experience depression?


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## Laze (Feb 19, 2015)

Daleks_Exterminate said:


> That's a better way to live, sure. I still experience interests, happiness, ect. Human emotions aren't exactly what I'm referring to. As a state of being though, do you experience depression?


I do experience depression, but not disorderly. I get depressed by things that logically and socially should make me depressed, and I'm fine with that. Though in your case it seems like it's neurological, which could be directly linked to your nihilistic thought process as you say yourself. If you genuinely see no point in doing anything then that may have become a subconscious truth to you, in turn subconsciously causing your brain to maintain a state of chemical depression. 

Why would your brain do that? I'd say that because socially that's how you understand depression is supposed to work. Your brain is merely fulfilling it's purpose: life is shit and there's no point in anything therefore depression should be felt. Your brain is simply facilitating a social behaviour you've been taught.

Well that turned into a ramble. You probably have conversations like this with your therapist haha.


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Daleks_Exterminate said:


> Has anyone else experienced this? What are your thoughts?


Clinical depression generally entails a fragile sense of self - "I have failed more often than others", "I am not worthy of love", "Why doesn't anyone love me?" and so forth. Is this the case for you?

I am not formally depressed because I have a robust and positive self-image. However I do experience plenty of existential "depression" - the profound pointlessness of existence in a universe where you're far, far less than nothing.

I believe the answer lies in this quote:

"Wisdom is knowing I am nothing. Love is knowing I am everything. Between the two, my life flows."
- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj


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## Schema B (Aug 9, 2015)

Depression on and off for years. I fight my way out every time. I think NTPs see the possibilities (many cataclysmic) and struggle to work solutions, which surely could prolong the matter. And the NTJs look for the best solution that will serve its purpose the longest. (Then have to cycle back through.)

I get it, though. That NT mind is both vast and fragile. The more you know, the more depressed you'll be... There's nothing wrong with your prolonged state of crisis though. As in, it's normal and more honest than gallivanting through life ignoring existential questions.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

dekkr372 said:


> Clinical depression generally entails a fragile sense of self - "I have failed more often than others", "I am not worthy of love", "Why doesn't anyone love me?" and so forth. Is this the case for you?
> 
> I am not formally depressed because I have a robust and positive self-image. However I do experience plenty of existential "depression" - the profound pointlessness of existence in a universe where you're far, far less than nothing.
> 
> ...



Im not usually very in tune with my feelings honestly. I'm not sure if it's worthlessness because of that? Maybe. I am a lot harder on myself than other people / punish myself etc. that could be tied to it. I'm not honestly sure. I think it's much more tied to pointlessness though/ the meaninglessness of everything.

interesting quote


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## Marvin the Dendroid (Sep 10, 2015)

Daleks_Exterminate said:


> Im not usually very in tune with my feelings honestly. I'm not sure if it's worthlessness because of that? Maybe. I am a lot harder on myself than other people / punish myself etc. that could be tied to it. I'm not honestly sure. I think it's much more tied to pointlessness though/ the meaninglessness of everything.
> 
> interesting quote


What the quote points out is a fundamental truth about human consciousness: feeling tiny in the vastness of the universe is only one half of the truth we are capable of perceiving. The other half is an experience of perfect interconnectedness, or _interbeing_, where there is no single you but only one, all-pervading universal consciousness. As a sceptic, I obviously doubt there actually exists a single universal consciousness, but the _subjective experience_ of it is just as real as the subjective experience of being less than nothing. Both are states of consciousness your brain is capable of experiencing - and with only one of them, you're missing half of the truth. 

This lack of feeling connected is commonly found in every form of depression, whether the sufferer is aware of it or not. Experiencing that profound, all-pervading interconnectedness can be a tremendously healing experience - although as all other mental phenomena, it is impermanent. Repeated exposure to short bursts of it can be tremendously helpful.


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## Leaf on the Wind (Dec 26, 2013)

There are many and varied causes to depression-but some of these include biological reasons (chemical imbalance) and there's even research into a genetic basis (which actually does apply to me; at one point, I found out there was potentially a genetic basis to my depression).

I suffered from depression most of my life, but I wasn't formally diagnosed until a few years ago. I'm not sure if it's cognitive (again, a case could be made that I acquired it through genetics), but I do know that cognitive reasons probably make the problem worse.

Here's my theory (and this is based on the INTP function order): being an intuitive thinker results in attempting to rationalize the depression. Here's me: I'm feeling bad and I think there must be a reason for it. I know intellectually that it could be a chemical imbalance, either triggered from some event that seems too small to trigger this, or in some cases just triggering at random. But it doesn't matter; it still goes forward. Ti isn't any help because it's fixated on some reason why I should feel bad-even if it's stupid. Ne ends up just picking up everything that supports that reason why I should feel bad and adding to it. Si doesn't help either, because it's too busy remembering every crappy thing that's ever happened and tossing that into the fire. You can tell me it's irrational, you can tell me it's an episode, you can tell me it will pass. It doesn't matter; when I'm going through an episode, getting out of bed is a struggle, leaving the house a battle and living is a full-on war that I'm losing.


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## marybluesky (Apr 23, 2012)

Daleks_Exterminate said:


> I wonder (and think) that ntps may be prone to chronic and deep depression. Perhaps this is an odd judgment and certainly doesn't imply that to be an NT one must be depressed. however, it seems to go hand and hand with overthinking everything. I'm not sure.


I agree. I see myself as someone prone to depression, due to over-analyzing & being sensitive inside despite cool manners. Sometimes I should find something to distract myself from caring to much about dark side of every thing. I was like this as long as I remember. I asked questions others even didn`t thought of, most of them remained without answer.


Daleks_Exterminate said:


> although I'm depressed chronically and it's not a feeling or reaction, it's more a state of existence....probably tied with severe nihilism. I'm not honestly sure. I can experience "happiness" sure, but like I said, the depression isn't actually "sadness" it's severe apathy.


I totally understand what you say. In periods of my life I have struggled not to (totally) fall into this state, the existential condition where I had no physical symptoms of depression but I sensed severely the hollowness of life, as if there was nowhere to reach in the world. I agree, it is more of a viewpoint than an illness: medications may have a provisional healing affect but at the end of the day can`t make a meaning for life.


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## MCK (Jun 19, 2015)

Daleks_Exterminate said:


> Im not usually very in tune with my feelings honestly. I'm not sure if it's worthlessness because of that? Maybe. I am a lot harder on myself than other people / punish myself etc. that could be tied to it. I'm not honestly sure. I think it's much more tied to pointlessness though/ the meaninglessness of everything.


I have a different view on depression.

I was poisoned. My glands where affected. I bounced in and out of depression daily. 

Anything that lasts longer than a little while is chemical.

Your thoughts can effect your body chemistry, but if you don't bounce out of it there is probably an imbalance.

These days, its not unusual at all. We are all a little poisoned.

As an NT you probably have a unique talent in being able to observe your depression from an external point of view (without the emotion). Its a usefull skill to be able to figure out whether your depression is rational or not.
I haven't found an F who could do this.

Low motivation, not enjoying anything, just not feeling much is often traced to low histamine.

Poor mood, emotionally flat without having much drive can be related to your Catecholamines.

The experience of bouncing in and out of a depressed state is so distinct and vastly different, I feel sorry for people who beat themselves up about 'not being more positive'


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## mangodelic psycho (Jan 12, 2015)

Heh. I was obsessed with the meaning of life and death when I was a kid.

These days I don't feel the need to find any particular meaning in life, or in doing anything. It is what it is. I think about all kinds of stuff, but I don't consume myself with these kinds of thoughts, certainly I'm not a nihilist. I was a nihilist when I was clinically depressed though, so this leads us to what @Leaf on the Wind said. NTs are more prone to rationalize their depression. In other words, depression might be the cause, not the effect of nihilism.


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## peter pettishrooms (Apr 20, 2015)

My depression in its earlier stages was more despondent and suicidal. I lived on the top floor of my building and had thoughts of jumping to my death because the stresses from school were getting to me. Fast forward a year later and my depression became more apathetic and I involuntarily suffered from severe nihilism. I saw no point in doing time-consuming things anymore and opted out of my responsibilities replacing them with drugs and alcohol. As you can imagine my Se was out of control. I was sick of feeling numb all the time that I was desperate to feel something even if it meant experiencing extreme sadness in the form of self-loathing and crying spells. Drugs helped me feel human. And that's what I wanted.


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## ENTPness (Apr 18, 2015)

Fucking nihilists, man.


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## RubiksCubix (Oct 29, 2014)

My friend for ten years was an ENTP, and he would tell me to "bring a knife to school" and crap like that. We were both bullied, and his depression was probably the primary motivating factor for me to fight with the bully. Whenever we were made fun of, I told him that they were "jealous of our friendship". And funnily enough, he believed it up through junior high, when he repeated it to me.

He has always seemed happiest when he is doing something he loves; he has a great sense of humor, is a great team leader in video games, and loves good discussions, especially ones that complain about stupid things and stupid people. I can imagine him happiest in an important and exciting scientific pursuit where he can interact with other team members in a meaningful way.

He would always tell me he was meaningless, and I would always tell him he wasn't. I admit that it mostly came from my religious convictions, but I still have always wanted to help him.

He has become more and more callous to some of our former friends, but whenever he sees me in High School, his grimace melts away to a smile as his Fe-Si begins to remind him of the experiences we had together. This is often what he talks to me about, when he still does.


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## Neuromancer (Jul 27, 2014)

Yeah. Around spring this year, the existential depression hit me like a sledgehammer. I've always been a bit resentful, not so much at the emptiness of the universe itself but more at the fact that I was born a sentient creature that must experience existence and then die. Like, it didn't matter if I understood everything there was to be understood or if I knew too little in my brief time in this world, because neither outcomes would have any meaning either way. I remember as a kid I rejected the idea of heaven because it seemed so boring to live forever, yet the prospect of disappearing seemed equally painful and terrifying. During that time, I stared at ceilings for hours, neglected to study for finals and life-impacting standardized tests because they didn't matter anymore, and basically read tons of Hemingway and Camus and felt terrible and misunderstood. What's worst is that you can't really confide in anyone because most people would just perceive you as pretentious and seeking intellectual validation. 
I've found the best solution includes doing something productive and worthwhile and something you enjoy. I poured myself over scientific research over the summer for 10 hours a day, five days a week, and spent the rest of the time restudying my physics textbook (there's always a bit more insight gained every time you read these kinds of things again). I think that forces you to focus more on there here and now and on your own life in this world. Cleaning your goddamn room also helps immensely. Once you feel like a worthwhile contributor to the world, the feeling generally ebbs a bit and makes living/dying bearable. 

Hope you feel better. If all fails, just seek out someone else who is feeling similarly (if not in real life, try online) and scream together into the hollow void of a night sky. Never tried it but it seems like it'll help.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

This is way too much fucking information and overly personal. So I'm sorry, However, it's getting worse and I don't know what to do or who to talk to. If you've dealt with depression & suicidal thoughts how did you handle it? 

Or suicide prevention reaources? Or anything like that. 
I'm trying to care, but honestly I really don't.


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## Miss Anne Thrope (May 2, 2015)

What country do you live in? Most have a lot of resources and a few have online contact so you don't have to do face to face or over the phone at first. Google these resources like crisis phonelines for your country if you prefer to not give that information and to find out on your own.

I don't know what to tell you as to how I have hung on for so long. There are some things I really don't feel like sharing for a ton of people to read since a few I know also know about this account but I have been really stupid and giving in to mental health issues lately. I have been weaker than usual. PM if you feel like talking more personally.


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## Miss Anne Thrope (May 2, 2015)

PS. My first memories/planning & trying to follow through with suicide was in grade four. I know the mental health issues started earlier but I can't remember exactly when. I have a lot of things blocked out.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Daleks_Exterminate said:


> This is way too much fucking information and overly personal. So I'm sorry, However, it's getting worse and I don't know what to do or who to talk to. If you've dealt with depression & suicidal thoughts how did you handle it?
> 
> Or suicide prevention reaources? Or anything like that.
> I'm trying to care, but honestly I really don't.


Why not caring is fun, you have to engage yourself in other humans because prolonged isolation will make things the same way they always were


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## DudeGuy (Aug 5, 2013)

There's the suicide prevention hotline; 1 (800) 273-8255.


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## Exquisitor (Sep 15, 2015)

Daleks_Exterminate said:


> This is way too much fucking information and overly personal. So I'm sorry, However, it's getting worse and I don't know what to do or who to talk to. If you've dealt with depression & suicidal thoughts how did you handle it?
> 
> Or suicide prevention reaources? Or anything like that.
> I'm trying to care, but honestly I really don't.


I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're doing okay. I know depression is a very trapping feeling, it makes it hard to imagine that anything ever gets better. It's important to remember that the way you feel (or don't feel) is the result of biochemical imbalances in your system, which makes it seem that the world is fundamentally wrong and painful, when it is more likely the case that something is distorting your perception to focus on the negative; therefore it is possible (and probable) that you'll feel a lot better in the future, even if you can't imagine it right now.

If you know, factually, that your feelings are probably lying to you about reality, it might give you some strength with which to go through the frustrating process of finding support (I recommend calling a hotline, finding out your local therapy options, and asking a good doctor about medication possibilities, at least in the short term, if you're experiencing really debilitating moods). I really hope this doesn't sound trite or condescending. Just don't let yourself do anything you can't take back, because later on you can and probably will have a clearer and better perspective. Recovering from depression is a whole hell of a lot more possible than it ever feels at the time.


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## starscream430 (Jan 14, 2014)

I don't really get drowned in depression per say, but I do have periodic periods of disappointment in regards to situations concerning myself. This might be due to the fact that I'm still relatively immature as an INTJ (college-age), but I hold myself to a high standard in regards to academia. 

When something doesn't go completely with my plans (almost all the time), I get really irritable concerning my situation. I know it's illogical (nothing is perfect), but I hold myself at a high standard in regards to academic / intellectual work...especially such work will eventually lead to a good job (hopefully).


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## peter pettishrooms (Apr 20, 2015)

Current sufferer although it's mild these days after spending three years trying to find the right treatment. In its earlier phases, I was suicidal. I came up with plans to kill myself because I was having a hard time adapting to my new life at uni. Fast forward two years later and I gradually became more apathetic. It was nihilism at its finest. Stopped caring about school, took a long unneeded hiatus from performing music, and did a good amount of drugs in order to feel something.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

I used to suffer from depression for majority of my life. Actually, I can surely say I was mostly out of it just for the past year. I still get some episodes when the depression fully returns, it can either be triggered or happens completely randomly and then I spend the whole day crying uncontrollably. Which is difficult for me for more reason than one because I hate losing control of myself. Although, recently, I've been trying to give it full wheel because if it needs to get out of the system then fighting it would do more harm than good.



Daleks_Exterminate said:


> This is way too much fucking information and overly personal. So I'm sorry, However, it's getting worse and I don't know what to do or who to talk to. If you've dealt with depression & suicidal thoughts how did you handle it?
> 
> Or suicide prevention reaources? Or anything like that.
> I'm trying to care, but honestly I really don't.


First of all, you need a clear goal. Getting rid of depression won't cut it. Imagine yourself happy, getting a job you want (or you might want based on your interests). I know it's difficult but if you want to get better you need to work for it. Don't worry, I know you can do it! You have it in you to beat the depression, just don't give up. Don't let it win!


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Prada said:


> First of all, you need a clear goal. Getting rid of depression won't cut it. Imagine yourself happy, getting a job you want (or you might want based on your interests). I know it's difficult but if you want to get better you need to work for it. Don't worry, I know you can do it! You have it in you to beat the depression, just don't give up. Don't let it win!


Just a question to this direction of thought and then i'll mostly ramble to myself.

Would you say finding small manageable goals is helpful? 

Just thinking that for some in therapy they're so down that they can barely get themselves out of bed, so for a few weeks, the main goal for the client is something like taking their dog for a walk once a week or every few days.
Also thinking that people have a unfortunate tendency to smash their own motivation when they epicure the grand scale of achieving something and are demotivated. Where it's better cognitively breaking things up into smaller goals and focus on getting those few steps and putting effort into that rather than trying to nail the destination.

Also thinking that some might resonate with a description Stephen Fry gives of depression being a futureless future, in this there's nothing to look forward to, there's no point in living because one can't imagine what to live one's life for, it's an abyss. 
So perhaps in that frame of mind, one looks for grand solutions as it's a wide space to fill and forgets the basics of maintaining one's physical well being as an important function of one's mental health.


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## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

Wellsy said:


> Just a question to this direction of thought and then i'll mostly ramble to myself.
> 
> Would you say finding small manageable goals is helpful?


Definitely. My point is that people with depression shouldn't strive *not* to have something. Human brain has trouble understanding that as it more commonly works with things that exist. So, imagining not having depression will, in turn, make the brain think about depression. While imagining getting out of bed or walking your dog, for example, will make the brain work with that. In order words, you need to replace the thing you don't want to do with something else. Yes, this works for feelings as well but takes some time. 

Of course, someone else might find something different more useful but this is something that helped me greatly and it was a huge eyeopener when I first read about it (I focused mostly on books because my experience with therapy was awful and more damaging than helpful).


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Thanks for all of the responses. 

Its weird. Sometimes I "feel" perfectly fine and sometimes I don't know why I'm still on the planet. I don't actually *want* to die, but sometimes I really don't want to live. 

The hotline is helpful, and I've tried therapy and medicine (the medicine made it worse XD) but...... I don't know how to actually change my mind or make it to where I'm never dealing with this. 



I found this this thread which kind of summarizes how I feel Do you think depression in Aspergers is different from NT? | Wrong Planet Autism Community Forum

im wondering if it's linked to being an aspie. Normal people seem to deal with it when things go bad. Mine pops up any time. I can be healthy, active, happy, in love. 


It's like a weird lingering curse.


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## Clyme (Jul 17, 2014)

Daleks_Exterminate said:


> Has anyone else experienced this? What are your thoughts?


Oh yes, I've suffered from extreme depression, had a huge problem with overthinking things, and suffered from one too many existential crises. I would be inclined to say that overthinking things and having existential crises goes with the territory of being NT for sure. We're in our heads far too much.

There's a lyric from one of my favorite music artists, Sadistik, that seems to capture this dilemma quite well: "I fall asleep to my existential woes and the questions with the answers that'll never get exposed." Too much thinking.


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## Miss Prince (Mar 23, 2013)

Highly. Mostly because of me trying to be stoic and repressing my emotions


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## Urban Erudite (Nov 6, 2012)

I'd tell me: "Stop being so nervous, stop trying to impress anyone, at this age you're probably still pretty dumb. And while you're at it read more books. "


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