# RPG's and NT's



## Aya the Abysswalker

Tezcatlipoca said:


> I think the reason is because of the statistical nature of the mechanics. Also many rpgs are turn based which allows for thinking about one's decision between actions.


You're talking about JRPGs. Many Western RPGs are not turned based (Witcher, The Elder Scrolls, Risen) and are even first person (Dishonored, Deus Ex). Western RPGs are more based on the actual exprience of role playing in it's more tradicional tabletop sense (the game is your gamemaster and you adapt your role playing to it), than JRPGs that are turn based (like Final Fantasy or Chrono Trigger/Cross) and you watch the main characters do stuff while you just read about it.


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## Emerson

RPGs and Sports games.


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## Cephalonimbus

INFP here, but i'm sure you won't mind me posting anyway ^_^

I do like RPGs, but mainly the Western-style, open world games where you as the player basically create your own story and where you can make decisions that have real consequences.

IMO, games aren't a very good medium for telling a story in a linear format, but that's what a lot of games try to do nowadays. They try to go for this "cinematic experience" and that often doesn't do the story justice. Even if the story is fantastic in its own right, the interactivity can really get in the way and diminish the emotional involvement because it takes pacing out of the equation... and pacing is pretty important in storytelling. Of course you can solve this by making a game that's linear as hell with a bunch of cutscenes and quick-time events, but then you might as well just make a movie.

However, what games are a perfect medium for, are open world games that have a lot of lore underneath to explore underneath the main story line. Lore that's well thought out, has internal consistency even if it wouldn't make sense IRL, that you can explore at your own pace and is at times tied to gameplay activities or themain story line.

Morrowind is a good example. The surface narrative is pretty simple and IMO not terribly exciting, but the fact that there's not much of a sense of urgency is probably a good thing. Unlike Oblivion, where the gates of hell have literally opened, in Morrowind the dramatic arc is slow and gradual, which makes you feel that it wouldn't be completely retarded if you took some time doing other stuff. That's good, because there's so much to explore. It all takes place in a large world full of fascinating things that in some cases are related to the main crisis, but in many more cases exist completely independently of it. Its people are proud but also very xenophobic and stuck in tradition, there's all sorts of political and religious turmoil, there's a rich history of ancient ancestors and a race of dwarves who mysteriously disappeared, there are ruins to explore in which you can find artifacts of these ancient people and learn more about what happened, there are various clans of vampires, werewolves and necromancers, its relation to the empire is comlex, there are Gods you can interact with, various factions you can join or help out, and the game does a pretty good good job of letting you choose what you want to do with all of this.
Most of these things have nothing to do with the main story line, but they make the game so much more interesting and offer a perfect enviroment to roleplay in. Better yet, your actions have consequences: join a certain faction or get a bad reputation in general, and others may not want to talk to you anymore. Kill the wrong person, and the world is doomed forever. Become a vampire or werewolf, and you'll become super powerful but life becomes very very difficult.


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## Shahada

Cephalonimbus said:


> IMO, games aren't a very good medium for telling a story in a linear format, but that's what a lot of games try to do nowadays. They try to go for this "cinematic experience" and that often doesn't do the story justice. Even if the story is fantastic in its own right, the interactivity can really get in the way and diminish the emotional involvement because it takes pacing out of the equation... and pacing is pretty important in storytelling. Of course you can solve this by making a game that's linear as hell with a bunch of cutscenes and quick-time events, but then you might as well just make a movie.


Good post, I strongly agree with this and your other points. Games offer a lot of opportunities to tell interesting stories but more and more these days games, including RPG's, try to tell stories by emulating film through cutscenes that reduce the player to a passive bystander rather than an active participant in the story. Morrowind is an excellent example of a game that takes advantage of the unique opportunities the medium offers. Morrowind puts you into the middle of a world and a story and lets the player discover it and piece it together themselves, making their own story. The dramatic arc of the plot and characterization is completely and totally different from one playthrough to another, depending on how you played it and how you interacted with the world and the characters. Unfortunately this is becoming less common these days--comparing the world of Morrowind, full of magic and secrets waiting to be discovered, and the empty theme park villages and copy and pasted on-rails dungeons of Skyrim, is like night and day. At best nowadays you'll get Bioware style "choice" (kill a kitten or help the old lady cross the road, btw the same thing happens in the end no matter what you choose). Probably the most recent RPG that I think did a good job of telling a story as a game rather than a movie or TV series was Fallout New Vegas, which was a lot less like the binary choice theme park of Fallout 3 and much more similar to the original games in the series, where the quests have diverse and varied sets of solutions and the way the player chooses to do things and interact with characters has a profound effect on the game world and story.


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## Cephalonimbus

Shahada said:


> Good post, I strongly agree with this and your other points. Games offer a lot of opportunities to tell interesting stories but more and more these days games, including RPG's, try to tell stories by emulating film through cutscenes that reduce the player to a passive bystander rather than an active participant in the story. Morrowind is an excellent example of a game that takes advantage of the unique opportunities the medium offers. Morrowind puts you into the middle of a world and a story and lets the player discover it and piece it together themselves, making their own story. The dramatic arc of the plot and characterization is completely and totally different from one playthrough to another, depending on how you played it and how you interacted with the world and the characters. Unfortunately this is becoming less common these days--comparing the world of Morrowind, full of magic and secrets waiting to be discovered, and the empty theme park villages and copy and pasted on-rails dungeons of Skyrim, is like night and day. At best nowadays you'll get Bioware style "choice" (kill a kitten or help the old lady cross the road, btw the same thing happens in the end no matter what you choose). Probably the most recent RPG that I think did a good job of telling a story as a game rather than a movie or TV series was Fallout New Vegas, which was a lot less like the binary choice theme park of Fallout 3 and much more similar to the original games in the series, where the quests have diverse and varied sets of solutions and the way the player chooses to do things and interact with characters has a profound effect on the game world and story.


 It's like you read my mind... i was actually considering using Fallout New Vegas as an example instead of Morrowind.

Are you familiar with MrBtongue'syoutube channel? It's one of the best gaming channels out there IMO. He has excellent analyses of the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games, and much more.


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## Grehoy

Do NTs or STs play healer classes?


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## Shahada

No but I might check it out now, I'm a huge nerd for RPG talk. Probably because there aren't a lot of good ones coming out these days :\ I'm really hyped for Pillars of Eternity!


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## Aya the Abysswalker

Grehoy said:


> Do NTs or STs play healer classes?


It depends really. NF here and I like to play with long ranged classes like Mages or the Outlander from Torchlight II.


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## Tad Cooper

大好きですよ！！


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## koalaroo

Grehoy said:


> Do NTs or STs play healer classes?


ENTJ who exclusively plays healer classes in MMORPGs.


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## Thomas60

koalaroo said:


> ENTJ who exclusively plays healer classes in MMORPGs.


I love the leverage it brings. It's an automatic 'in' for team building.


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## koalaroo

Thomas60 said:


> I love the leverage it brings. It's an automatic 'in' for team building.


Yep, I wanted two things in my first MMORPG: usefulness to a party, and the ease of getting into a party. Healer fit that bill, and I've been playing one ever since. I do dabble in tanking from time to time, though.


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## noz

yeah i notice the trend, also in MMOs too. The best guilds in Everquest seemed to be largely NT, and my most favorite guild I was in seemed to have damn near every dysfunctional, unhealthy, angry NT on the entire server. Jesus Effin Christ, we had sooooo much fun, and everyone hated us, haha

And while I didn't play WoW that much, I'm 99.9% convinced that NTs perpetrated/planned this wonderful, infamous event in MMO history: 




NTs are assholes, man. LETS START A GUILD OMG


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## nuut

Grehoy said:


> Do NTs or STs play healer classes?


Not exactly, I prefer support types but they are not always healers.


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## Rice

A lot of the NTs I know like RPGs. I'm an ISTP and I love RPGs as well, specifically JRPGs. I've never been able to get into western RPGs or MMOs. JRPGs and Asian MMOs seem brighter and are just more visually appealing to me. I'm not big on MMOs though. I like being able to create my character and exploring the different areas, but if I can't beat things up with a giant axe then it's not worth playing. Once I make it to level 30-35, I usually get bored and quit playing though.


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## Chaerephon

Yes, I love RPGs. I never played any MMORPGs, but I played a lot of console games. I think Elder Scrolls Online will be my first when it releases and I get a PS4. I've always been oddly drawn to JRPGs for some reason.


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## ghostshade

Love rpgs but as others have said the modern rpgs is less stellar when it comes to gameplay then the old ones. 

I for one prefer planescape torment over skyrim even if skyrim becomes playable after you tweaked it with +25 mods:wink:

Sadly i have not found a group to play tabletop rpgs with for years:sad: While computer rpgs are good nothing beats a good DM and the amazing stories you can create while gaming in a tabletop rpg.


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## Tezcatlipoca

You can play classic tabletop rpgs over the net on a site called roll20


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## Toru Okada

Tezcatlipoca said:


> You can play classic tabletop rpgs over the net on a site called roll20


Olde school PnP GM/player here. If you GM you get to play around with your creativity a lot, so I do that 95% of the time. Today I'm writing up a Dark Sun campaign using the RuneQuest rules (normally you'd play Dark Sun with AD&D or 4e but after I bought RQ I couldn't go back to D&D). 
@_Doll_ @_ghostshade_ @Tezcatlipoca Do you guys prefer table-top RPGs to video games? There's something to be said about the social part of sitting around a table exploring a world together with imagination and minimal props, and having rules gives everything a backbone.


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## Tezcatlipoca

Yes, that is true. Also I like that it is unpredictable because of the input of others (at least to an extent). The dark sun setting is awesome. I think paizo has adapted it for pathfinder as well. Personally I find 3.5 makes spell casters too overpowered whereas 4e is too scripted and doesn't allow for as much customization. I tried a preview of 5e and it seemed cool. I have never dmed, but perhaps I should give it a go on roll20 to see things from the other side of the table


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