# Enneagram and violent crime



## Blazkovitz (Mar 16, 2014)

Do you think any types are more likely to turn violent?

I would say 1s, trying to force perfection on others, 6s (believing they are defending themselves) and 8s for the sake of power. The Unabomber's crazy rants about "power process" sound very 8ish to me.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Blazkovitz said:


> Do you think any types are more likely to turn violent?
> I would say 1s, trying to force perfection on others, 6s (believing they are defending themselves) and 8s for the sake of power. The Unabomber's crazy rants about "power process" sound very 8ish to me.


Sexual 6 and Sexual 8 top the list for sure (if you watch any documentary on prisons, you will likely see plenty of these two types lmao!). Sexual 4, Social 8 Self Preservation 8 are probably up there too (though Self Preservation 8s are less likely to get caught, because they are the most careful, 5-ish 8 and are typically better at mitigating risks). Additionally, I could picture a really fucked up Sexual 2, Sexual 4 or Sexual 5 becoming a serial killer or sexual predator (Sexual 4s are drawn to sadism and macabre; 2s and 5s are power seeking, though 2 is typically a bit more dangerous. 5 power seeking in relationships is more similar to PUA culture in general). Social 6s can get pulled into all kinds of fucked up crime if they ally themselves with the wrong crowd (particularly So/Sx, as the secondary Sx gives them more of a violent streak)


as for _non_ violent crime? 
- Sp 7s are prone to be con artists, criminal masterminds etc (think Lord of War or Catch me if You Can)
- Id types in general are prone to all manner of white collar crime


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Blazkovitz said:


> Do you think any types are more likely to turn violent?
> 
> I would say 1s, trying to force perfection on others, 6s (believing they are defending themselves) and 8s for the sake of power. The Unabomber's crazy rants about "power process" sound very 8ish to me.


There's a distinction between violent and violent crime. I believe my brother is ESFP 8w7, and we got into fights all the time. I still kinda hate his guts.  Anyway, he'd do something wrong, I'd correct him, he'd react angrily, and we'd have an immediate escalation to me wanting you knock his skull into a glass table, but never actually doing it, and him sometimes even grabbing something to bludgeon me, or throw at me, like a 3-pound(?) dumbbell that missed me and broke a hole in the wall.

Yeeeeahhhhh, I tend to not have good relationships with 8s.

Anyway, speaking from my perspective as Sx 1, I could imagine a person like myself believing that it's beneficial to hurt certain people (and more likely kill, because pain isn't a very good teacher, and you can't polish shit to make it shiny). This can be in spur-of-the-moment deals with another violent individual, or vigilante-style serial-killer Bruce Wayne scenarios where principles might even break down to the point of allowing more leeway in order to do the "good work" of eliminating what they consider evil. The excuse: "You need to get your hands dirty if you want to clean the mess. The mess won't clean itself."

So for type 1, violent crimes will probably be either serial-killer style or crimes of passion.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Dalton said:


> There's a distinction between violent and violent crime. I believe my brother is ESFP 8w7, and we got into fights all the time. I still kinda hate his guts.  Anyway, he'd do something wrong, I'd correct him, he'd react angrily, and we'd have an immediate escalation to me wanting you knock his skull into a glass table, but never actually doing it, and him sometimes even grabbing something to bludgeon me, or throw at me, like a 3-pound(?) dumbbell that missed me and broke a hole in the wall.
> 
> Yeeeeahhhhh, I tend to not have good relationships with 8s.
> 
> ...


I would have paid good fucking money to see that (I LOVE 8 vs Sx 1 confrontations. most epic shit ever)


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I would have paid good fucking money to see that (I LOVE 8 vs Sx 1 confrontations. most epic shit ever)


:laughing: How often do you get to see that?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Dalton said:


> :laughing: How often do you get to see that?


admittedly, mostly in fiction =(


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> admittedly, mostly in fiction =(



Still. Show us examples! :tongue:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Chained Divinity said:


> Still. Show us examples! :tongue:


the best example I can think of is from Kill Bill

_*Beatrix Kiddo (8w7 Sx/Sp) vs O-Ren Ishii (1w9 Sx/Sp*_







unfortunately, most of the examples I can find videos for are of _Social_ 1 vs 8. for example, this one is pretty epic 

Mirajane "Satan Soul" Strauss (8w7 Sx/Sp) vs Freid (1w9 So/Sx)
(ordinarily, Mirajane is a 2w? Sx/Sp who tries to look Sexual 9, but he demon form is as Sexual 8 as it gets)


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

yangire:>???? sorryu imsobvering up i swaer


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## Blazkovitz (Mar 16, 2014)

Dalton said:


> So for type 1, violent crimes will probably be either serial-killer style or crimes of passion.


I would add, terrorism and politically or religiously motivated murders.

Would "crimes of passion" be explosions of the repressed 1-ish anger?


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Blazkovitz said:


> I would add, terrorism and politically or religiously motivated murders.


I was thinking about that while writing the post, I swear. 



> Would "crimes of passion" be explosions of the repressed 1-ish anger?


Yes. I wouldn't call it 1-_ish_ though. :wink:


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Violent crime is a human issue, owing more to the nature of our world than enneagram type. 

It's easy to peg 6s and 8s to "violent crime", but that then rules out the nuances of personality and how many NON-violent people of those types there actually are. I'd be extremely reluctant to assign "sexual firsts" to violence, as well. If anything, it's related to health level, but most of us don't really reach the lower reaches where it would make a difference. (I'm speaking as someone who's reached low levels of health--it takes quite some doing).

Then you will have to figure in, exactly what is a "violent crime"? In my time, I've seen small children in a fist-fight get suspended from school for "violence", and I've watched as world leaders demolish others' countries without so much as a slap on the wrist. People are forcibly evicted from homes by police supporting big businesses, and individuals blow up buildings. Only some of these people will ever be considered criminals. What constitutes a "violent crime", really? It would be better to ask what type is more likely to endorse man's inhumanity to man.

Basically, until I see a scientifically validated correlation chart between type and violence (no such thing will ever exist, btw)--I will refrain from making assumptions about criminal habits. And that's my bit.


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## CelineDijon (Jul 5, 2016)

What type is likely to have this attitude: ''Well, if a person is worthless and contributing nothing but grief to society, might as well exterminate them because nothing of value will be lost'' ? 

What type was the Punisher? He was a vigilante and seemed to be hellbent on correcting injustices.


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## richard nixon (Sep 14, 2017)

Ones are definitely the most likely to be terrorists, mental patients (1w2), and to start or join racist organizations that advocate violence (Jim Wickstrom and Buford O Furrow were 1w2). I know many, many 8s and they've not been in "trouble with the law" for quite some time, some have never gone to jail.. they're all sx-doms and most of them were good at not getting caught because they were so smart, I don't know what swordsman of mana was talking about when he said sp 8s are the most 5-ish and best at not getting caught; sx 8s are all pretty smart and have a good connection to 5. 

I really think age makes a large difference with 8s; they're probably the type most likely to be juvenile delinquents (but not just violent crime) with 6w7s not far behind but sx 8s are not really all that likely to be in the criminal justice system after their 20s.

8w7 and 6w7 are definitely the most likely to drive drunk. Those with a 7 wing seem to actually be more prone to criminal behavior and addictions than core 7s.

Basically, in a psychiatric ward the ones there to get more drugs/help with an addiction problem will be just about all 8w7 sx and 6w7 sx; the ones there for mania and/or intellectual disability will all be 1w2 so/sp.


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## CelineDijon (Jul 5, 2016)

So it would be a 1 mentality to not feel sympathetic towards certain people you perceive as 'bad' ? Even if the people died? ''Well at least no innocent person died''


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

CelineDijon said:


> So it would be a 1 mentality to not feel sympathetic towards certain people you perceive as 'bad' ? Even if the people died? ''Well at least no innocent person died''


I think so, though technically it could be a justification method for anyone


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## bundleofraindrops (Feb 25, 2018)

ESTP 8w7 or ESTP 6w7 sx probably tops the list.


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## richard nixon (Sep 14, 2017)

I also forgot to mention that social 1w2 is probably the type most likely to rape. Most rapists are said to not be very emotionally expressive but still angry inside and to be rigid so 1w2 fits. 1w2 is also probably underrepresented among white collar people/holders of doctorates and artists so they'd be more likely to be hostile towards women since they don't have much. 

6w7s and 8w7s tend to be feminists so while those types may be overrepresented for violent crime, they're actually underrepresented for rape.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

richard nixon said:


> 1w2 is also probably underrepresented among white collar people/holders of doctorates and artists so they'd be more likely to be hostile towards women since they don't have much.


Really? I would think overrepresented 



> 6w7s and *8w7s tend to be feminists* so while those types may be overrepresented for violent crime, they're actually underrepresented for rape.


Really??
I don't think it's possible to know really what type most rapists are, probably very low on the health levels and not in the same bracket as people who are choosing most of their actions based on values (i,e, even if most 6 and 8s are feminists, or deeply religious, or have very high moral principles, that's not going to affect the low, much smaller bracket of 6 and 8s who are likely to become rapists)

Not sure if I should write it and it's just speculative, but I would think 8s were overrepresented in rapists, the type has lust as its vice, desire to dominate others, as well as not typically sensitive, tending to act rather than think or feel in any given moment. . . at the same time 8s drive to protect the innocent and sense of honour, high self-worth would draw them away from this crime

And I'd probably think of 6 too, but it's easy to see reasons this could happen for any of the Enneagram types, at a very low level, and as I said I don't really think it's possible (or worthwhile) to know


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## CelineDijon (Jul 5, 2016)

Wow this thread really went to shit. A lot of ridiculous things being said.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

CelineDijon said:


> What type is likely to have this attitude: ''Well, if a person is worthless and contributing nothing but grief to society, might as well exterminate them because nothing of value will be lost'' ?
> 
> What type was the Punisher? He was a vigilante and seemed to be hellbent on correcting injustices.


PSYCHOPATH
any unhealthy type is capable of violence


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## CelineDijon (Jul 5, 2016)

People say that but I don't necessarily agree. I think there must be some type more likely to do this. Just can't find out a way to do a study on it, obviously.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

CelineDijon said:


> Wow this thread really went to shit. A lot of ridiculous things being said.


Yeah, the original question isn't even the most interesting, either... More interesting and less ridiculous would've been, imo, "what type of crime is each type likely to commit?" Because while "violent crime" is rampant, some people have different ideas on what exactly is violent (such as limiting it only to assault or murder), and other types of crime can be much more damaging overall. Emotional/verbal abuse, (identity) theft, neglect, lack of explicit consent, all sorts of things that aren't necessarily "violent" but generally have lifelong consequences.

Then again, that kind of question - same as this one - could easily (always) lead to typism and forgetting that certain types are just as human (that is, capable of damaging _and _capable of compassion) as others...


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

I would say Type. 1,2,3 and 4 maybe more prone to violence but everyone in certain situations could be prone to violence of course


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## richard nixon (Sep 14, 2017)

2w1 is the type most likely to rape. Sorry.


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