# Weird Question for Intuitives.



## Friday (Jun 1, 2012)

NovaStar said:


> I have an ENTJ professor that I like a lot, but he seems consistent in trying to set me up for failure. Has that made me a better person? Actually no, since all it did was make me lose respect for him and be forced to drop out of his class. Having said that, I wouldn't mind taking another class with him teaching, but he needs to understand that I can't fit all of his expectations, and if he treats me like the perfect student he wants me to be, I'll fail. This is why I don't put expectations to people myself; in so doing, I avoid this one issue, but I'm confronted with the problem of people believing that I don't believe in them. For a select few, I do, but since I have no real expectations, I'm always open to the possibility they could end up proving me wrong.


I dont believe in sabotaging someone's efforts and careful consideration must be taken when "letting" someone fail, or "setting them up to fail" by their own means. I was quite disgusted when I heard about a friend who is a bio-chem major who had her case study (or w/e its called) sabotaged by an assailant adjusting the temperature on the dingus/dinglehopper.

I also dont let people know i've let them fail. My friends know I do this to people, but they never know when ive done it to them. They can always suspect me, but ultimately, it helps them. I could care less whether they "respect" me or not. If they know they're being manipulated or influenced by me it taints the whole "program" causing an unnatural response. For this method of "teaching" to work, they have to rely on their first natural response, which I have taken into consideration when I designed the scenario.

I know this sounds very manipulative and possibly evil, but its not nearly as bad as it sounds. I'd never let someone get seriously injured (except ego) or engage in events which could cause lifelong effects, with the exception of unwanted pregnancy. I mean, im not going to kick in someones door, or topple their tent, if they're having irresponsible sex. That does sound like a cool Youtube video idea... however.



NovaStar said:


> I always thought that if I couldn't get through to someone by being as direct as I usually am, I would next fall on discussing what I see as issues with them. Should that fail and they not want to discuss anything, I would ask them to take a page out of other peoples' experiences. If that doesn't work either, I would ask that they wait and let me make the same mistake I was pointing out that their flaws would lead them to; maybe it would ruin my life, but it could potentially be of help to them. If all of that fails, then that other person will make the mistake I gave them four chances to avoid making, and I move on with my life. If I honestly made the same mistake earlier as an example, however, I'm going to have my own issues to take care of before I can help another... maybe that's why I avoid using myself as an example unless it's for a person I strongly care about.


Too much effort for me. I dont like direct involvement so much. Id rather just let it burn, and watch heads roll by the time I get that deep in the mix. When I use myself as an example, it's usually not of a physical nature. I love to display my internal strength, values, and discipline. As a person of small stature (im 5'7, 145 lbs.) I didnt start with a powerful build to begin with.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

Friday said:


> I could care less whether they "respect" me or not.
> 
> I mean, im not going to kick in someones door, or topple their tent, if they're having irresponsible sex. That does sound like a cool Youtube video idea... however.
> 
> Too much effort for me. I dont like direct involvement so much. Id rather just let it burn, and watch heads roll by the time I get that deep in the mix.


I guess that's my issue. Be it because of my Extroversion or my soc/sx stacking, I actually do want people to respect me. Eventually, I'm just going to have to get over the fact that very few (if any) people will actually respect me or what I have to say, because our <sarcasm>wonderful</sarcasm> society is teaching people that they are an island unto themselves, yet needing of a good f-buddy when they're not off partying somewhere.

And for the Youtube idea... DO IT! DO IT NAO!!! :laughing:

I've only found one person I think is worth the effort, but if even she fails, I might as well start taking up that mindset about people. Then I'll just sit back and watch life like a drama film, not emotionally involving myself with any of the characters so I can watch as they burn. Hell, I'd probably get a good laugh out of it too. But for now, I still want to hold out some hope; I haven't tried every trick in the book just yet! Never know when I might actually succeed, so might as well keep trying until I hit a massive stumbling block. Then I'll work on breaking it into tiny pebbles which I would then use to throw at the idiots that failed to listen to me. After I run out, then I'd continue as normal and continue with my efforts.

I should take pit stops occasionally though. I'll probably run out of steam because of all this effort I put into other people.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

Oh, really! Because that's exceedingly rare from my (and Stephen's) experience interacting with Ne users (in this case mostly Ne doms). Usually they just *think* they know what we're thinking and think that *THAT* is the truth and they react to us based on what they *think* we said (which most of time is waaaaaaaaay off mark)....but there's no talking to them because their Ne has already taken them to faraway places. It's usually the ones who are the most confident that they can 'grasp'/'intuit' our minds that are the most wrong, because it will never occur to them that there is a gap between what they perceive the other person is communicating and what the other person *really* is communicating, so they will not bother to ask for clarification before they respond. Often in error but never in doubt.

And of course that other person just feels devalued, misunderstood and not listened to. This may be what is happening here. People maybe giving you hurtful comments because they're hurt and sick of all the presumptions.

Of course I'm not saying that all or even most Ne users are like this, but when I see statements like, "I'm tuned in with what they're thinking"...well, all sorts of red flags go off in my head.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

Kayness said:


> And of course that other person just feels devalued, misunderstood and not listened to. This may be what is happening here. People maybe giving you hurtful comments because they're hurt and sick of all the presumptions.


Of course, when I have asked for clarification from some people, they tend to not clarify anything at all. Usually, I end up seeing them contradict themselves, which is always a little red flag to me that they're hiding something. And although I accept it, the only alternative I have of helping someone is by working off of my educated guesses. If they're honestly sick of all the presumptions, they have to be clear with me. Instead, the people I've dealt with will get ticked at me for making assumptions, yet they will either tell me nothing or they'll skirt around the issue, sometimes lying through their teeth to get me quiet.

I'll stop working off my assumptions the moment I meet someone who will be very straightforward and honest with me. Since that hasn't happened yet, I guess I'm stuck relying on my Ne in the meantime.

Although, I will admit that I 'feel' like I have someone who I can trust, but what I've observed as contradictions in her statements makes me question those feelings. I'll be fine waiting for her to open up and trust me, but in the meantime, there seems to be unresolved issues that could be resolved should they be discussed with me; I know most people don't want an objective, analytical person making observations, but that still seems better than comforting lies. If there was a way to make the truth comfortable, I would need an NF to tell me how to word it, otherwise I come off as very brash, admittedly.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

Kayness said:


> Oh, really! Because that's exceedingly rare from my (and Stephen's) experience interacting with Ne users (in this case mostly Ne doms). Usually they just *think* they know what we're thinking and think that *THAT* is the truth and they react to us based on what they *think* we said (which most of time this has absolutely nothing to do with what is actually said)....but there's no talking to them because their Ne has already taken them to faraway places. It's usually the ones who are the most confident that they can 'grasp'/'intuit' our minds that are the most wrong, because it will never occur to them that what they perceive the other person is communicating and what the other person *really* is communicating may not correspond to each other, so they will not bother to ask for clarification before they respond.
> 
> And of course that other person just feels devalued, misunderstood and not listened to. This may be what is happening here. People maybe giving you hurtful comments because they're hurt and sick of all the presumptions and not being actually HEARD.


Yes, this is why I observe for a while. I generally ask questions here and there at first, like "wait, I thought you said he stole money from you...was it a misunderstanding then?" or something like that, as an example. Of course, unless it's blatant, then no questions necessary. 

I've certainly jumped to conclusions, but I immediately know when I was wrong because the person usually responds by clarifying, and I always apologize for anything on my end...However, I know I nailed them dead on when they become defensive, take passive aggressive digs, use ad hominems, gaslight, rewrite history, further BS, etc....and even then, I still apologize for anything that might be on my end.

Eta: It's probably a good thing some Ne doms voice their conclusions, because I've noticed some Ni doms will come to a conclusion in their head, but never vocalize it to the person to be sure...they just assume it's correct and write the person off.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Kayness said:


> Oh, really! Because that's exceedingly rare from my (and Stephen's) experience interacting with Ne users (in this case mostly Ne doms). Usually they just *think* they know what we're thinking and think that *THAT* is the truth and they react to us based on what they *think* we said (which most of time is waaaaaaaaay off mark)....but there's no talking to them because their Ne has already taken them to faraway places. It's usually the ones who are the most confident that they can 'grasp'/'intuit' our minds that are the most wrong, because it will never occur to them that there is a gap between what they perceive the other person is communicating and what the other person *really* is communicating, so they will not bother to ask for clarification before they respond. Often in error but never in doubt.
> 
> And of course that other person just feels devalued, misunderstood and not listened to. This may be what is happening here. People maybe giving you hurtful comments because they're hurt and sick of all the presumptions.
> 
> Of course I'm not saying that all or even most Ne users are like this, but when I see statements like, "I'm tuned in with what they're thinking"...well, all sorts of red flags go off in my head.


The reason that Ne users might make assumptions about your thinking is because of the way you are communicating. Rather than being straightforward with them to keep their thoughts rooted in one specific area, their Ne takes the subliminal cues you might be giving them and formulating so many possibilities for what you could be thinking.

And they don't really intend to hurt people, but Feeling dominant types, especially Fi dominants, have a tendency to respond to criticism or commentary on their personal goals, values, et cetera in a negative way. They're very individualistic and don't like to be told what to do, how to feel or think, and who to be.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Kayness said:


> Oh, really! Because that's exceedingly rare from my (and Stephen's) experience interacting with Ne users (in this case mostly Ne doms). Usually they just *think* they know what we're thinking and think that *THAT* is the truth and they react to us based on what they *think* we said (which most of time is waaaaaaaaay off mark)....but there's no talking to them because their Ne has already taken them to faraway places. It's usually the ones who are the most confident that they can 'grasp'/'intuit' our minds that are the most wrong, because it will never occur to them that there is a gap between what they perceive the other person is communicating and what the other person *really* is communicating, so they will not bother to ask for clarification before they respond. Often in error but never in doubt.
> 
> And of course that other person just feels devalued, misunderstood and not listened to. This may be what is happening here. People maybe giving you hurtful comments because they're hurt and sick of all the presumptions.
> 
> Of course I'm not saying that all or even most Ne users are like this, but when I see statements like, "I'm tuned in with what they're thinking"...well, all sorts of red flags go off in my head.



Well yes I could easily see why you would think that, but it's why I followed the statement with "and they tell me so" 

I don't consider it some kind of psychic ability, it's intuition but I don't consider that to be superior to sensing and I also wish the term "dumbing down" hadn't been used in this thread for that reason but oh well lol.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

NovaStar said:


> Not to beat up on Sensing-doms, but this has been a commonality in my experiences with them. I mean, everyone I've known (even the intuitives) tend to say/want one thing, but actually end up with the other (either on purpose or inadvertently due to faulty methods of searching). I still tend to press matters though, even when they don't like it. ISTJs especially hate my assertive way of approaching them, so I've learned to tone it down; however, I'm not entirely convinced anyone can deal with their problems completely on their own. You could, but it would require making mistakes, and some mistakes you just can't make without it changing you forever (how many people still carry around guilt because of a mistake?).
> 
> For those that don't listen to me and just go out and make the same mistakes as everyone else (no matter how unique they believe they are), I chalk them up to my massive group of 'average human beings' and move on. You thought xNTJs had high expectations? Well, I honestly can say that I don't have any expectations for people - just hope and an understanding that certain ones in particular can overcome the average elements of their beings. I don't believe everyone can be more than what they are, but I do believe that anyone can convince themselves (and therefore be capable of that capability) - the question is, how many people will honestly do that? Then I look at the statistics and I think 'so few that I would have better luck growing scales all over my body'.
> 
> However, I don't give up on people that haven't made a big mistake yet. Remember, other people can see faults that we can't see in ourselves. But it's up to them if they actually learn from me (and others) or not. But as soon as they make a mistake, I'll catch them when they fall, tell them to try again, then move on with my own life. Yeah, I would lose some trust in them, but at least if they admit their mistake(s), I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But I work on a two-strike system; "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, what the hell is wrong with me?" :laughing:


This actually is me when I was younger.

I definitely had a very open mind and was accepting, even curious about problems that other people had.

Now it's like I truly and honestly do not want to be involved with anyone who has too many problems and I don't want people to think that I'm a person who will "get them".

It's difficult because that's not naturally who I am but when I can use this facade until I know someone better I seem to weed out the people who think their eccentricities will be appreciated by me.

I've attracted so many special snowflake types, people who pride themselves on being different and unique and usually end being highly annoying, headcases, or both.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

MortimerVonKraus said:


> I've attracted so many special snowflake types, people who pride themselves on being different and unique and usually end being highly annoying, headcases, or both.


Ever since 6th grade, this has been the case with me. Let's see... an ISFP that let people walk all over him and tried to get my help with a real-world love interest, an ISTJ trekkie that I helped build models with because he wouldn't do them on his own, an ENTP-turned-ESTP that loved pointing out the flaws in others without analyzing himself (I learned from that, but I was always trying to be the peace-keeper), another ISFP that purposefully distanced himself from the rest of the class and tried to get my help with a love interest, and an ISFJ/ISFP that fell for me even though she knew next to nothing about me and I knew she had these masochistic tendencies.

I attract these types of people the most until I push them away with my assertions. Then they claim that the only reason I'm pointing out their flaws is because I'm covering up my own. That would be true if I hadn't learned from my past, but I did; now I analyze what flaws I do notice and try to overcome them. They don't want to accept the fact that someone can actually learn and move on with their lives because they themselves can't. I grew out of that mindset, and they certainly can too.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

MortimerVonKraus said:


> Do you ever "turn off" your intuition when interacting with certain people?
> 
> Maybe even other intuitives who have bad intentions?
> 
> ...


I think you're misunderstanding the root of the problem- people are drawn to you because they sense empathy(which is just intuition on your side). Understanding what people are thinking and where they are coming from is empathy. Now, if you would rather not hear their emotional problems, just tell them that you are ill-equipped for this kind of thing- there's no use in discussing the matter. It's not a matter of Sensing vs. iNtuition, it's more of a Thinking vs. Feeling thing. And of course, you are within your rights as a thinker(human being) to tell them to pack their baggage and leave it at home when they are around you.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

tangosthenes said:


> I think you're misunderstanding the root of the problem- people are drawn to you because they sense empathy(which is just intuition on your side). Understanding what people are thinking and where they are coming from is empathy. Now, if you would rather not hear their emotional problems, just tell them that you are ill-equipped for this kind of thing- there's no use in discussing the matter. It's not a matter of Sensing vs. iNtuition, it's more of a Thinking vs. Feeling thing. And of course, you are within your rights as a thinker(human being) to tell them to pack their baggage and leave it at home when they are around you.


This is where I get confused with empathy V intuition, aside from the random connections V linear thinking pattern.

That definition of intuitive is easy to understand.

With NTs I feel like we're conflicted. A lot of my understanding of people comes from observing their behavior and watching them repeat the same patterns, I get to point where I can predict their behavior even when they can't (or just don't want to)

So it's just analytical, but a part of me really is tuned in with what they're thinking, and I don't want to connect with them. 

It's sensing very random things about other people and having them later be like "WTF?". It's not like I can be aligned with their thoughts and feelings all the time and I sincerely don't want to be so I don't know if that's really empathy but I can figure almost anyone out.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

MortimerVonKraus said:


> This is where I get confused with empathy V intuition, aside from the random connections V linear thinking pattern.
> 
> That definition of intuitive is easy to understand.
> 
> ...


Well, I know exactly what you mean. 

The question of whether it is truly empathetic is if you find yourself compiling these observations and reactions into an emotion(as opposed to pulling these from a purely informational and intuition-activated store of knowledge)- does X action from this person indicate X emotion, or not, and is this something that I can see in myself or not? And trying to find a good set of rules for each emotion so you are able to predict, and even understand how your emotions are similar to the other person's, so you can then learn what to look out for in yourself...

Even if it's purely detached and analytical, you still understand to a degree, which is all that is required of empathy. If it comes from the void, without need or want, it is intuition.

Now, you can have these observations and this understanding, but you have to decide whether you want to keep learning through interacting with and observing people, or if you just don't care.

But, since people are incapable of knowing this difference because it is being sorted and processed only in your mind, and probably expressed after being strained to get all of the word pulp out, they think it's empathy. You know that it is not. Explain the misunderstanding to them(I'm not the Mother Teresa you think I am).


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

> With NTs I feel like we're conflicted. A lot of my understanding of people comes from observing their behavior and watching them repeat the same patterns, I get to point where I can predict their behavior even when they can't (or just don't want to)


This actually, believe it or not, is more sensation because your observation or notion is built around something you physically perceive (in this case their behavior, or body language or some other tangible cue). True intuition does not work like this, but rather leads to assumptions or notions without having the physical evidence to back it up. That is why, for instance, jung says that intuition and sensation are at odds with one another, one preferring to focus on the physical aspects of the world, paying attention to things right in front of them and appealing to that, where the other ignores those things that are in front of them, in favor of some instinct or notion or indescribable impression that may not have any real supporting facts or evidence. This is why when you read MBTI descriptions of Se/Si types they say that these types can be overly concerned with actual facts.

It's why Sensation types have a tendency to scoff at people who trust gut-feelings or think that people who make assertions without concrete evidence are making things up, believing in nonsense or just talking out of their asses. True intuitives on the other hand, never quite taking the real world for what it is, never really trust what meets the eye. To them there is always something else underlying behind the scenes to be uncovered. You might hear someone using their intuition say "something strange is going on here," but not actually have any real evidence to back that claim up, its just like a sixth sense. In contrast, the Sensation type might say "this doesn't look right." Now obviously in vernacular these phrases are often interchanged, but the basic idea is that when the Sensation type engages their intuition it is always the slave of something they have physically perceived first -- because I see x it must mean y. Now Sensation types can be quite clairvoyant and insightful, and maybe even rival their intuitive cousins (an ESTP may, in a moment seem very much like an INFJ) but the problem arises when the Sensation type begins to appeal to intuitions without recognizing the limitations of their physical perceptions. Just because you have physically perceived something doesn't mean that is all there is and that your conclusions will always be right (in fact that's why the Sensation type has intuition, to tell them that things may not be what they appear - they just have a tendency not to heed it or to downplay it) but it takes a leap of faith for the Sensation type to stop paying attention to the physical cues of the moment and just trust their non-physical 'instincts' or 'insights' or whatever you want to call it. 

That's why I say its easier for a person who prefers Sensation to Intuition to sort of ignore their intuition (many Se-doms go half a life before even recognizing intuition even exists and even then have a hard time dealing with it) because they're more used to looking at things physically anyway. So whatever 'wisdom' they appear to have from the outer world, they may secretly themselves be wary of or not trust, and when pushed too far they may begin to try and shut that aspect of themselves down outwardly (in much the same way an INTP who got overloaded with Feeling issues might initially retreat back to their Thinking safe haven). What often ends up happening though is exactly the opposite and the person sort of becomes overwhelmed by these notions and may lapse into conspiracy theorizing or predicting the worst possible outcomes, or a flood of negative possibilities about something. 

An ENP or INJ on the other hand would actually retreat into their intuition as a face-saving measure under such circumstances really shutting out the input from what's right in front of them and almost live completely in a sort of metaphysical perspective. With types who don't prefer either Intuition or Sensation (like IPs) its really a toss up and probably depends on the nature of the individual and the moment.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

LiquidLight said:


> This actually, believe it or not, is more sensation because your observation or notion is built around something you physically perceive (in this case their behavior, or body language or some other tangible cue). True intuition does not work like this, but rather leads to assumptions or notions without having the physical evidence to back it up. That is why, for instance, jung says that intuition and sensation are at odds with one another, one preferring to focus on the physical aspects of the world, paying attention to things right in front of them and appealing to that, where the other ignores those things that are in front of them, in favor of some instinct or notion or indescribable impression that may not have any real supporting facts or evidence. This is why when you read MBTI descriptions of Se/Si types they say that these types can be overly concerned with actual facts.
> 
> It's why Sensation types have a tendency to scoff at people who trust gut-feelings or think that people who make assertions without concrete evidence are making things up, believing in nonsense or just talking out of their asses. True intuitives on the other hand, never quite taking the real world for what it is, never really trust what meets the eye. To them there is always something else underlying behind the scenes to be uncovered. You might hear someone using their intuition say "something strange is going on here," but not actually have any real evidence to back that claim up, its just like a sixth sense. In contrast, the Sensation type might say "this doesn't look right." Now obviously in vernacular these phrases are often interchanged, but the basic idea is that when the Sensation type engages their intuition it is always the slave of something they have physically perceived first -- because I see x it must mean y. Now Sensation types can be quite clairvoyant and insightful, and maybe even rival their intuitive cousins (an ESTP may, in a moment seem very much like an INFJ) but the problem arises when the Sensation type begins to appeal to intuitions without recognizing the limitations of their physical perceptions. Just because you have physically perceived something doesn't mean that is all there is and that your conclusions will always be right (in fact that's why the Sensation type has intuition, to tell them that things may not be what they appear - they just have a tendency not to heed it or to downplay it) but it takes a leap of faith for the Sensation type to stop paying attention to the physical cues of the moment and just trust their non-physical 'instincts' or 'insights' or whatever you want to call it.
> 
> ...


I've always flipped flopped between feeling really connected with people in the moment and feeling like i'm watching life as a TV show.

It's hard to explain, when I'm observing people I'm not "with" them but I start to feel connected to the essence of a person or a lot of people, or even a place or time period.

I'm always "somewhere else" but sometimes even when I'm detached that way I feel connected. It's like a cold,detached analysis of people but almost like living as them and understanding why they do the things they do. But I just don't feel anything for them in this mode. I enjoy gaining an understanding of people this way, but it's more like learning experience. 

In the mode where I actually do feel something for them I still view them from this standpoint but want to be involved in what they think/feel, etc. They feel more "real". There's always some kind of wall before that or something that makes me believe people don't have "real" thoughts/feelings, etc, and that they're all just acting as the characters I think of them as. When the connection is formed the wall fades but as soon as they do something wrong they start to feel like they aren't real people to me again.

I think that's actual empathy and thinking/feeling battling it out. I have to feel some kind of empathy for people before they're like real people and not fictional characters to me.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

LiquidLight said:


> This actually, believe it or not, is more sensation because your observation or notion is built around something you physically perceive (in this case their behavior, or body language or some other tangible cue). True intuition does not work like this, but rather leads to assumptions or notions without having the physical evidence to back it up.


I think we're getting too extreme here.

Intuition can't intuit without past data -- it would have no context for _anything_.

I mean, that's like trying to say that intuition can work without words (audial/visual data) or pictures (visual data); it can't; the only language it has is based on a sensory priming of the individual with basic building blocks of language, at which after a certain point it can use that language and that experience to anticipate outcomes and perceive connections that aren't necessarily obvious or explicit to people looking at just the clearly perceived data. The more experience and knowledge I have, the more intuitive leaps I find myself able to make; if you don't even see (or can guess at) landing spots on the other side, how are you supposed to leap across the chasm?

It all seems moot, also, in the sense "who really cares what it's based on from a Jungian theory POV?" The point is that he doesn't like to deal with other people's baggage as much as he has to, whether it's based on sensing or intuition or feeling or thinking, and he can just say, "Hey, right now I don't want to deal with this, I'm sorry; can you take it elsewhere right now?" And i do agree the other people are just noting his empathy, not his intuition, most likely ... at least as the point that is relevant to them.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Jennywocky said:


> I think we're getting too extreme here.
> 
> Intuition can't intuit without past data -- it would have no context for _anything_.
> 
> ...


I know what he means but when a person's intuition isn't at all based in anything they sense it's either extreme intuition or something close a delusion.

So I agree with you there but at the same time intuition can be activated( at least mine)with limited exposure or something you actually observe for a short time period.

I've had the intuitive leaps and they have usually been correct but I do need the sensory input in the first place for any of this intuition to exist.

And also I'ma girl lol


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## Friday (Jun 1, 2012)

I'm going to say that the most basic form of intuitive construct our mind has access to are referred to as hallucinations and dreams.

I dont know why I posted that. It somehow seems like it belongs here.


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## LotusBlossom (Apr 2, 2011)

FacelessBeauty said:


> And they don't really intend to hurt people, but Feeling dominant types, especially Fi dominants, have a tendency to respond to criticism or commentary on their personal goals, values, et cetera in a negative way. They're very individualistic and don't like to be told what to do, how to feel or think, and who to be.


WOW yes! These are the ways my Fi blinds me.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

@Kayness I have an INFP sister so yeah. It's kind of hard for me to get through to her sometimes, so I've learned to back off a bit and let her realize things on her own. I think that other types have a hard time understanding that.


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## Enfpleasantly (Mar 5, 2012)

I observe behavior, or take past data into consideration. However, it is when I have gone against my intuition and went by what was in front of me that I become overwhelmed and stressed. I never feel confident in decisions like that, and in attempt to ease the uncertainty, I have to say things to myself in favor of Si, like "this was the right decision because if you were being taken advantage of, she would've avoided eye contact" or something like that. However, it never eases until I change the decision, and once I do, a feeling of relief follows. Basically, we all have preferences, and sometimes we try out other methods, which usually feels very unnatural. 

I can't feel confident in taking anything by what is presented to me alone, but I do take it into consideration.

I don't like attempting to type people here; I dabbled in it a bit, but I "see" too many underlying aspects to people that if I go by exactly what I think, I might not have any solid evidence to show them why I saw what I did. So I decided to try and type people based solely on what they present here (like in a questionnaire) and I would end up with results that were totally off from what I naturally think. So...that's a good way to know if you prefer Intution or Sensing, IMO at least


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## Scruffy (Aug 17, 2009)

No, I'm unable to perform temporary mental lobotomies at will.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Friday said:


> I'm going to say that the most basic form of intuitive construct our mind has access to are referred to as hallucinations and dreams.
> 
> I dont know why I posted that. It somehow seems like it belongs here.


I would argue the opposite- that kind of thing is pretty complex intuition, if that's even what it is. Basic intuition would be the immediate products of instincts and your brain's hardware, things that are extremely difficult to even properly express because your(universal you) castle of language has been built over it; hallucinations and dreams would take a while to develop I would imagine.

EDIT: Jumped to conclusions, nevermind.


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

I'm rather new to MBTI but I've become very close with my Ne over the course of my life so I pretty much know how it works. 

Intuition is a strange beast. It takes limited amount of "sensory input" and then extrapolates. I see that your facial expression indicating that you are faking a smile (most Intuitives can easily detect fake smiles. it's not a science, but a lot of it is in the eyes), which my intuition confirms for me by rapidly drawing connections between the myriad of signals I'm getting from you. So yes, Intuition generally disregards concrete evidence in favor of relationship-building and connection-forming. But it is only able to perform these functions because of basic sensory input.

Intuitives get hunches/feelings/etc because of the minute details we can pick up. If I walk into a room and I get a bad vibe because my Intuition is screaming "THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG HERE, ALERT ALERT," its probably because I'm noticing little details that betray people's true intentions. For example, I walk into my INFP friend's room and she's trying to act like its just business as usual (and for most of our friends, it probably works), but I notice the nonverbal cues. Fleeting eye contact, a smile that screams "i'm not happy," small head and hand motions, etc. When I ask her if she's ok, i don't actually listen to what she says (unless she actually admits something is wrong, obviously). Most of my conversations are just my attempts to get a reaction I can work with and extrapolate further from. 

This might not apply to all Intuitives, but as an ENTP dominated by Ne, that is how intuition works for me.

Asking me (or any ENTP/Intuitive-dominant) to "shut off" our Intuition is like trying to fly blind. Equivalent to asking a Sensor to think further ahead or not be so engrossed by the present moment. It just doesn't make sense.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

gingertonic said:


> I'm rather new to MBTI but I've become very close with my Ne over the course of my life so I pretty much know how it works.
> 
> Intuition is a strange beast. It takes limited amount of "sensory input" and then extrapolates. I see that your facial expression indicating that you are faking a smile (most Intuitives can easily detect fake smiles. it's not a science, but a lot of it is in the eyes), which my intuition confirms for me by rapidly drawing connections between the myriad of signals I'm getting from you. So yes, Intuition generally disregards concrete evidence in favor of relationship-building and connection-forming. But it is only able to perform these functions because of basic sensory input.
> 
> ...


This is the feeling I get in Whole Foods.

O.O something ain't right in that place.

But yes, I agree. It's not like I reject sensory input from people or "reality" but I will trust those cues that are contrary to what they're actually saying when I see/hear/sense them.

edit: I didn't read to the end of the post the first time.

l did use the quotation marks for a reason but I think what I was describing anyway is some kind of empathy-intuition mix, more of a T/F issue.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

gingertonic said:


> I see that your facial expression indicating that you are faking a smile (most Intuitives can easily detect fake smiles. it's not a science, but a lot of it is in the eyes), which my intuition confirms for me by rapidly drawing connections between the myriad of signals I'm getting from you.
> 
> If I walk into a room and I get a bad vibe because my Intuition is screaming "THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG HERE, ALERT ALERT," its probably because I'm noticing little details that betray people's true intentions. For example, I walk into my INFP friend's room and she's trying to act like its just business as usual (and for most of our friends, it probably works), but I notice the nonverbal cues.


Agreed 100%. Now, my ISFP friends were usually more than open to me, but for my ISTJ friends, I've had to be a bit more crafty. I noticed how they acted and extrapolated on that information. Usually, they would get ticked at me because I'm trying to convince them that I know something is wrong, but they refuse to admit it. After that, I won't push the matter but let it sit and propagate in them until they're finally about to explode. When they do, I'm usually there to act as a scratching post for their emotions, since I've almost always been controlled enough to not 'fight fire with fire'. I'm one of the more cool-headed NTs I know because my hot-headedness only comes out in the conversations I have with myself. It's like my extremely objective self fights a war every day with my extremely subjective self, but I never drag others into these battles.

Then again, I admit when I'm wrong at determining something. Although I can be a scary judge of character from the get-go, I don't trust myself to be over 90% right until I've spent a lot of time with someone. Then I inadvertently test them while enjoying their company; from those tests, I determine where their strengths and weaknesses lie in terms of learned skills, natural abilities, and personality quirks. Contradictions in speech indicate a lack of trust in me or an inability to structure thoughts well (Ni, although when done by dominant Te's, I question the honesty in their statements); quickly falling back on tired arguments (like "I'm different!" or "I can't learn from anyone else!") or trying to take things I say out of context shows that I'm right about something, but the other person is trying not to believe it; saying one thing and doing another is indicative of either a manipulative person, or someone who is confused about who they are (or they've convinced themselves that one of the faces they put on is the real face while the other is just a mask).

But I honestly just analyze most people out of curiosity. There's only a few people I've ever analyzed because I care about them, so I take it a step further and try to empathize with them as well.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

NovaStar said:


> Agreed 100%. Now, my ISFP friends were usually more than open to me, but for my ISTJ friends, I've had to be a bit more crafty. I noticed how they acted and extrapolated on that information. Usually, they would get ticked at me because I'm trying to convince them that I know something is wrong, but they refuse to admit it. After that, I won't push the matter but let it sit and propagate in them until they're finally about to explode. When they do, I'm usually there to act as a scratching post for their emotions, since I've almost always been controlled enough to not 'fight fire with fire'. I'm one of the more cool-headed NTs I know because my hot-headedness only comes out in the conversations I have with myself. It's like my extremely objective self fights a war every day with my extremely subjective self, but I never drag others into these battles.
> 
> Then again, I admit when I'm wrong at determining something. Although I can be a scary judge of character from the get-go, I don't trust myself to be over 90% right until I've spent a lot of time with someone. Then I inadvertently test them while enjoying their company; from those tests, I determine where their strengths and weaknesses lie in terms of learned skills, natural abilities, and personality quirks. Contradictions in speech indicate a lack of trust in me or an inability to structure thoughts well (Ni, although when done by dominant Te's, I question the honesty in their statements); quickly falling back on tired arguments (like "I'm different!" or "I can't learn from anyone else!") or trying to take things I say out of context shows that I'm right about something, but the other person is trying not to believe it; saying one thing and doing another is indicative of either a manipulative person, or someone who is confused about who they are (or they've convinced themselves that one of the faces they put on is the real face while the other is just a mask).
> 
> But I honestly just analyze most people out of curiosity. There's only a few people I've ever analyzed because I care about them, so I take it a step further and try to empathize with them as well.


l really know what you mean about these types.

I'm at a point in life where I'm predicting things with them really far ahead of time but I never say anything.

I'll watch someone while being "friends" with them for about a year just to observe patterns like this or a lack thereof, if everything is consistent to me and there are no tortured soul "l can't be saved" episodes they are a "real person" in my mind, lol.


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## Lucky AcidStar (Apr 23, 2012)

Thought a bit on this, and it turns out that if I were to try to ignore or "shut down" Ti, I would be using Ti in another form to do just that.
If I tried to ignore or shut down intuition... that would just be Ti rejecting it's proposals as unrealistic, I can't really shut it down as I don't control it. Kinda like how I can't turn my heart off. It'd be painful, stupid, and would involve surgery.


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## doublerainbows (Feb 9, 2011)

MortimerVonKraus said:


> Do you ever "turn off" your intuition when interacting with certain people?


i cannot. although i have tried and will continue to do so in an effort to better connect with others.

in fact, i was just sucked into 2 hours discussing interior design with two sensors. every minute detail was analyzed on various inanimate objects in the room (where they were purchased, how much they cost, what options existed at time of purchase, the reason they were chosen over other options, doubts they had about the purchase). i can't hide my thoughts or emotions very well, and in my boredom and eventual frustration i'm afraid i eventually looked like i wanted to cane an old lady.

note: i used to work in design but i approached it from a standpoint of "form"...how to best implement certain guiding principles (based on scientific or aesthetic concepts that were utilized to maximize impact while causing the observer/user to ask meaningful questions). i analyzed and fretted over details that they perhaps understood much more straighforwardly. or something. i likely will never know.

(i can imagine the look on these very nice ladies' faces, were i to have asked them to make abstract what was patently concrete to them. horror, probably.)

for me: take away the physical world, and my inner world comes into clearer focus. but my intuition is my torch in that world and without it i am deaf dumb and utterly blind. 

exceptions: sex and dancing - why is that?? and btw, there is plenty of debate out there as to whether ENFPs are actually *truly* present for the former!


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

doublerainbows said:


> i cannot. although i have tried and will continue to do so in an effort to better connect with others.
> 
> in fact, i was just sucked into 2 hours discussing interior design with two sensors. every minute detail was analyzed on various inanimate objects in the room (where they were purchased, how much they cost, what options existed at time of purchase, the reason they were chosen over other options, doubts they had about the purchase). i can't hide my thoughts or emotions very well, and in my boredom and eventual frustration i'm afraid i eventually looked like i wanted to cane an old lady.


This behavior sounds like it was also Thinking. Analysis can't take place with detail alone, it must involve mental motion.


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## doublerainbows (Feb 9, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> This behavior sounds like it was also Thinking. Analysis can't take place with detail alone, it must involve mental motion.


thank you for pointing that out. so why (i wonder) did those details *bother* me so much? not the details, just their exhaustive exploration in ways that did not signify or lead to exploration of their deeper meaning...


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

doublerainbows said:


> thank you for pointing that out. so why (i wonder) did those details *bother* me so much? not the details, just their exhaustive exploration in ways that did not signify or lead to exploration of their deeper meaning...


I get that too, unless there's a logical point to why they're doing it. I would probably have asked why the exploration of details.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Since I'm able to fairly easily spot games people are playing in real life, I get tired of having to interact with people who are heavily into games and who think I don't see. All the pretense is tiring and feels dishonest. I don't feel I have the right to point out to people the games they're playing, if it's not in their immediate consciousness and they haven't asked for that information, so I solve it by withdrawing and not interacting as much with people who get too heavily into this. My intuition isn't turned off, but my interest is. I wish I had more empathy but I feel overwhelmed at times, not with problems but with people who don't want to see the problems.


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## William I am (May 20, 2011)

To answer the original quote:

No - not really. I can change my actions (not saying "the right thing", etc.) but can't turn off my intuition. My intuition is like my sense of balance.


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## AstralSoldier (Jun 18, 2012)

MortimerVonKraus said:


> Do you ever "turn off" your intuition when interacting with certain people?


No. I cannot. It's a subconscious/reflexive process...think of it like a bridge that is INFINITELY connected between the conscious and subconscious minds; the subconscious sends the conscious metaphors, symbols, and all other types of imagery the conscious mind needs to help to construct a general 'feel/understanding' for the situation, person, place, or thing we're experiencing. I get impressions that are pretty reliable. 



> Maybe even other intuitives who have bad intentions?


Surely they do. Not all intuitives are good, I don't even think I'm good all the time...more mischevious than anything, like if we get into an argument, and my 'halo' snaps, then I'll hide the remote....my dad HATES this...he gets this intestine turning, heart burn inducing look on his face!! Vengeance at times feels too good to be free lol....mwhahahaha!! :ninja:



> I've found some people can really sense that I'm tuned in with what they're thinking and will use that to manipulate me or try to make especially hurtful comments.


Hmmm? so you're saying that your conscious of the intuitive wavelength? I mean, you use it as a dominant cognitive function? MVK? Well I've heard of Inutitives using their intuition at times to manipulate others, and make really nasty comments, but you actually KNOW about it? Well, that being said you COULD give them a dose of their own 'black pudding'. So how THEY like it.



> I also find that some people just assume I'm the person who is going to tell them what they should do about their problems, and I actually do understand them completely but it doesn't mean I'm "available" to deal with their problems, YKWIM?


lol harsh...but true; you start counseling, some days, you'll never leave the office...in situations like these, the best thing to do is help counsel people to discover their natural insight into situations, people, places, and things, so that they don't have to use you like a pocket counselor. lol



> I'm finding myself actually turning off my intuition by default as I'm getting older, because not only have l grown up around a lot of unstable types who take advantage of it, I became someone who attracted brand new unstable people because they could sense the intuition. I started to feel like people thought they had a right to burden me with their problems because they knew I understood them(and would tell me so.)


Yea, I heard that that happens when we get older; our mastered cognitive functions become more supportive, auxiliary even. When I'm in guru mode, I leave people with advice that carries the message within the message I give them; for example my brother asked me about him being stuck between two girls he liked, and didn't know which one to choose; I decided that I would hold him accountable for taking control of his own romantic life, and told him "The answer is in your heart, don't look for it, because you might loose it to greed" in other words, he already 'KNEW' who he liked/wanted to be with, but refused to release the prospect of having two girls around him; he was about to screw himself out of the girl he loved just to have two...hey, a bird in the hand as they say...lol



> So I'm sort of "playing" a sensor in a lot of situations now, sometimes I will even over do it to turn off people who l sense might br drawn to me and aren't people I like. Pretend I don't understand what they're talking about or say things that I know will offend them but act like I don't know that (not saying this is all sensors, this is me overdoing and becoming an extreme sensor in an attempt to turn these types off.)


Congrats if you learned how to change one of your dominant cognitive functions MVK! you'll have to show me the trick be hind that seriously, because I'm getting the 'squirts' of it too, but chances are, if you've been an intuitive, you're gonna stay an intuitive and you're fine just as you are; you don't have to change your type just because other people don't want to learn how to stand on their own two feet, and live their own lives and make their own desciions; you're allowing people to hold you responsible for things you can't change for them...start helping them see their strength and they may leave you alone more than you think; it's a gift and a curse you know? MVK...as are most things. Only real way to make it better is to realize YOU can accept people treating you like this or, you can tell them you need time off from counseling...make people 'own their own success' rather than holding your responsible for finding their answers for them.



> I turn it on for people I actually want to be close to. So far I'm finding life to be much easier, I have a clear headspace that I can devote to the people I actually care about and the drama queens/soul suckers seem to have moved on.


I just learned not to let people take me to that head space. I give what I can to people and no more; You've got to have something for yourself in place, besides I wouldn't know how to act like a sensor, and even if I did, why would I want to act that way? I'm an INFJ, this is who I'm made to be; you don't see senors changing who they are. You gotta learn proper boundaries, or your intuition might just get the better of you by driving you nuts filling your head with impressions of things, the meaning of EVERY LITTLE WORD said by another person.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Sarah said:


> Since I'm able to fairly easily spot games people are playing in real life, I get tired of having to interact with people who are heavily into games and who think I don't see. All the pretense is tiring and feels dishonest. I don't feel I have the right to point out to people the games they're playing, if it's not in their immediate consciousness and they haven't asked for that information, so I solve it by withdrawing and not interacting as much with people who get too heavily into this. My intuition isn't turned off, but my interest is. I wish I had more empathy but I feel overwhelmed at times, not with problems but with people who don't want to see the problems.


This is l mean, too. What l really cannot stand about some people is that they seem to think you have some kind of responsibility for their emotions, if they know you understand them. Especially when most people don't understand them well, they zero right it on you.

l might have more empathy than l realize because l feel way too much of what other people fee; but l haven't always had the sympathy to go along with it. l don't want to be involved with their emotions at all, funnily enough after long periods of pretending like l can't read them it's actually starting to become reality. 

Some kind of barrier immediately goes up around people that l truly dislike now and it's like l can only interpret what they say very literally.

Mostly this is an issue with my family but the older l get the less interested l am any kind of BS, to the extent that l appear like an entirely different and possibly stupid person around the ones l don't want to be bothered with.

But it feels like a privilege in a weird way, or at least a vacation.


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