# Gender, Myers-Briggs, and the Odd Man/Woman Out



## entpreter (Aug 5, 2009)

I thought about including this in the ENTP or Rational forums only, but I think the issue encompasses all Myers-Briggs types, and so I want to hear from all of you. 

As a female ENTP, I often find myself going against the grain. Some find my female "T" attractive (platonically and romantically) , some find it intimidating or weird. For those of you who have a type that stereotypically or disproportionately belongs to the opposite sex, please explain others’ reactions to you or your own experiences. I'm not really asking if you like your type or not, I'm just asking about your observations. 

Now's your chance to gripe!


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## Blueguardian (Aug 22, 2009)

For the longest time people would exclaim that I am gay or question my interest in girls. I have been told to "Be a Man" amongst other lines along that nature. 
While I have no direct evidence to prove it... even now: I feel that most men don't accept me as a real guy, and women don't accept me as a real man. I am an enigma in the terms of the general population, I guess. A social outcast. On the bright side, there is almost no peer pressure, there are no peers!


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Although INTP is very "stereotypical male", it's very rare even amongst males, so although it is a "masculine" type, I'm in a tiny minority due to it. I don't mind having such a rare type and I quite like it, although I would like to be more outgoing.


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## entpreter (Aug 5, 2009)

Blueguardian said:


> For the longest time people would exclaim that I am gay or question my interest in girls. I have been told to "Be a Man" amongst other lines along that nature.
> While I have no direct evidence to prove it... even now: I feel that most men don't accept me as a real guy, and women don't accept me as a real man. I am an enigma in the terms of the general population, I guess. A social outcast. On the bright side, there is almost no peer pressure, there are no peers!


Interesting, that "be a man" part. No one officially told me that I should talk more like a girl, but I took classes in college on language and gender and began to realize how un-feminine I spoke and wrote. Most of the time the difference doesn't bother me, but it seems the class taught that women tend to use more filler words, such as, "just" or "sort of..." Words used to lighten messages' tone. I usually don't use a lot of fillers, but I noticed that people, especially women, tended to think I was rude or too bossy when I talked or wrote so I started adding fillers. Now I find myself altering the way I talk/write depending on the person. 

of course not all women use a lot of fillers and men certainly use them, but the ratio is off.


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## Kevinaswell (May 6, 2009)

Well....

I don't REALLY apply...technically....but I got some input that is for sure relevant. 

I'm INTP and like boys.

Gay people = flamboyant queeny ass fuckers (generally speaking obviously, nobody get on my nuts cuz I'll win cuz holy crap do I have a lot to say about the gays). 

Gay people have no idea what to do with me at all >.< Just...oblivious. It's like they can't even fathom someone who is gay that thinks. 

The SECOND their "witty" *** lines don't work with me, and they get an annoyed cold response, they just get this look on their face like "wtf are you."

I went to this gay club the other week, and this flamer called me a "unabomber".

I just stared unblinking. He could have been a 15 year old girl the way he put himself together >.< I just had zero patience for that kind of retarded, especially since I was wasted. 

Other than that, it makes finding one that works with me very, very hard >.< I've only had feelings that I'd consider genuine for two boys on the whole planet--an ISFP and an INFP. I'm stuck on the ISFP insanely hard. 

Friends are pretty easy, though. Guys like me loads cuz they can get attached to me on a deeper level because I can think well, and women get attached to me because, well, I like boys and ladies like those 

At least, that's what the small percentage of people I find acceptable think when they get to know me....

But I feel like they appreciate me a bit more and give me loads more credit, because in the pretend land of "who's gay friend is better?!" contest, I fucking dominate.


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## Verdant Hollow (Aug 25, 2009)

Yeah, just as Sky said. Being that everyone in my immediate family is an ISF, and I really don't know any ENTPs, being odd as a person, apart from my gender, was different enough.

I've never met an ENTP woman, but if you're anything like the ENTP guys I know people must have looked at you quizzically quite a few times.


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## entpreter (Aug 5, 2009)

Kevinaswell said:


> Well....
> 
> I don't REALLY apply...technically....but I got some input that is for sure relevant.
> 
> ...


Wow, so it's reverse stereotyping for you! Gay men expect you to be more feminine and you sound like you expect them to be more masculine. :happy:


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## Kysinor (Mar 19, 2009)

*My behavior can be really off-the-wall. The thing for me is that I just behave in ways that I can't always help. I don't purposefully try to freak people out. 

If I act more feminine, I act more feminine. If I act more masculine, I act more masculine. I don't let myself be bothered with the dichotomy. Having feeler preference, I suppose I act somewhat "feminine" depending on your definitions. I don't possess a consistent singular mode of a behavior either. 

Reactions from others generally aren't that nice. I possess a subconscious ability to both intimidate and confuse people. I laugh at myself how I happen to behave; like; "What the hell were I thinking?". I'm afraid that I don't comprehend the word "appropriate behavior". Even if I did, I figured out it would be boring.* 

(yes, I colored the text)


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## ImbecilicSage (Apr 29, 2009)

Obviously I belong to a type that's more correlated with feminine than masculine definition, but I don't think I get too much criticism regarding how "manly" I am. In high school I was often concerned with how masculine I came off, as I didn't play any "real" sports, (all I did play was tennis, which might have been worse than playing no sports at all) I was involved in debate club, and the school's book club, as well as the literary magazine, though only one person ever even suggested they thought I might be gay, and even then it wasn't due to abrasion, just that they really weren't sure (it was a girl who I'd consider a distant friend, and she was more likely E_FJ so it's not like she'd be prone to cruel judgment). Another ESFP girl (I don't know if I'd call her a friend or something else nowadays, but at the time I guess she was the former) actually explicitly told me I don't come off very feminine, so I don't know. 

I AM somewhat bothered by my physiology, as my hands and forearms are disproportionate from my body, though no one has actually commented on this directly to me... I don't know if anyone actually notices, though more often I like to conceal my forearms if I'm out in public as I think they make me look vulnerable, which I don't want.

Another interesting point is though I consider myself to have well developed moral and honorable standards, my explicit criticism of things is usually sterile and analytic, making me seem more like a general nerdy guy to others rather than a "pansy, overly emotional, girly man". Whether or not my nerdiness makes me seem less like a tough guy I don't know, but I'm not that concerned about that aspect of things. So yeah, I don't know if other people see me as feminine, although sometimes I can worry myself, to actually deal with the topic directly :laughing:.


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## Scruffy (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm surrounded by NF's. 

It's hard because my sarcastic and compulsive lying (for amusement) generally fall short on them. 

I don't actually know many other SP's, I mostly know SJ's. 

I tend to fit in most places, but I can come on as too strong or fake sometimes I suppose.


I like variety though, ESTP's piss me off.


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## Kokos (Dec 28, 2008)

Well i can do both pretty well. I'm very good at masculine philosophy over a glass of beer, i have some lacking over football and cars, but it's usually not a problem. And i can talk very well to girls too, they are often pretty amazed by how i can understand them so well, but i don't know if it is a good thing or not.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I can fit into "typical female culture" just fine, I've developed the skills to do that and enjoy the interactions on some level... but I usually still feel some level of detachment from the whole thing. 

I really like children but I don't fawn over them like many women seem to; and if one gets hurt or picked on, my tendency instead of coddling them is more to toughen them up or empower them in some way to resolve their own issues, if that is appropriate. I can be sentimental in some contexts but generally prefer a rational analysis of things. I hate teddy bear t-shirts and Precious Moments and foo-foo stuff, even though in my own way I'm very feminine (just more elegant, I suppose, rather than gushy female). 

I usually fit in much better with scrappy women, or professional women-- women with backbone -- not the women in the typical church settings I was immersed in for years where there's a particular sort of femininity espoused.

It's kind of hard to describe. When I'm with guys, it's pretty clear I'm "feminine" in comparison but I still find men easier to deal with on some levels. A female identity, definitely, for me; but as far as how I "fit in," I sort of feel like I'm between both binary gender groupings in how I relate, or that I fit into either category sufficiently enough to enjoy myself but sometimes still feel apart from things.


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## totefee (Aug 6, 2009)

I often feel like the "odd woman out." I'm an INTP, who is bordering INTJ. I go with INTP because I think that I am slightly more INTp than INTj, although I do have INTj tendencies. 

1. I look like a girl, obviously. I wear girl clothes. I have long hair at the moment, but I am thinking about getting hair cut next week ( only to get my hair medium-length, but not too short ). However, I never wear make up and I seldom wear jewelry. I don't really care about that stuff. I brush my hair. I straighten my hair once every few months, or when I feel like doing the work. I normally do the bare essentials... wearing deodorant, showering, brushing my hair ( which ends up getting messy somehow ), and brushing my teeth. I wear decent clothing, but I am not a slave to fashion. 

2. I'm a Thinker, not a Feeler, so that's a big difference. We Thinkers feel, but for me, personally, I just don't like crying. Most of the time, my state of mind is pretty clear and indifferent. My mom tells me I'm an "asshole" because there is this girl who just got her baby taken away. The girl does drugs, drinks too much, prostitutes, doesn't work, and other "bad" things. My mom feels bad for her, but I don't. I told my mom, "I am glad that baby is being taken away. The authorities are doing the right thing." My mom tells me I'm mean, but I don't care. I don't think I am being mean. I am just being honest and it's the right thing to take the baby away from that girl. She's fucked up. ( THe girl was a childhood friend, but we are obviously not freinds anymore ). 

3. Like Jenny above me said, I don't fawn over babies. I don't have anything against babies or children. I'm indifferent to most of them. I'll be polite, but it's a polite indifference. The only child I really care about is my cousin, who is one and a half. When I saw my cousin two weeks ago, I surprised no one that I was paying more attention to the cat than the baby. 

4. My other, older cousin who is my age got mad at me a month ago because she was upset and I didn't comfort her. I didn't even know she was upset. That is another thing that is unfeminine of me. I am not the comforting kind. I have to force myself to comfort people. It's hard for me. 

5. I get told to "smile" a lot by people, both men and women, but mostly men. Honestly, I don't smile because I don't have a reason to. I am not angry or sad or anything when I don't smile. More like indiffernet. What am I supposed to do? Walk around like an idiot with a big smile on my face? I don't generally show emotions, nor do I get enthused easily. When I am happy, I try my best not to smile or show enthusiasm. It's my first instinct. 

In a lot of my pictures, I'm smiling, but I generally don't walk around with a smile on my face. I think I come off as cheerful in my pictures, but I mostly walk around with an expressionless face. My sister tells me I look angry when I walk around, but I think she mistakes ( like a lot of people ) that someone who isn't smiling *must *be angry.


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## ape (Aug 11, 2009)

You gender odders are the little round circles

Providing balance.

Ballast for the ships


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## Ben (Aug 23, 2009)

Put me in a group of males, I'll be somewhat feminine. Put me in a group of girls and I might as well be packing some in my pants. So it all depends on my mood and the environment you put me in.

I'm definitely not gushy like some females (however I will hug the life out of my cousins), and very seldom do I wear makeup/wear jewelery. And, being underage, I live with my mom, who dresses well and always wears makeup. I'm very socially awkward compared to her (or anybody else, for that matter), and incredibly indifferent to the point of coming across as "emo" or a lesbian. And that's what people in my class describe me as, if they ever take the time to care.:dry:


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## entpreter (Aug 5, 2009)

Ben said:


> Put me in a group of males, I'll be somewhat feminine. Put me in a group of girls and I might as well be packing some in my pants. So it all depends on my mood and the environment you put me in.
> 
> I'm definitely not gushy like some females (however I will hug the life out of my cousins), and very seldom do I wear makeup/wear jewelery. And, being underage, I live with my mom, who dresses well and always wears makeup. I'm very socially awkward compared to her (or anybody else, for that matter), and incredibly indifferent to the point of coming across as "emo" or a lesbian. And that's what people in my class describe me as, if they ever take the time to care.:dry:


Ben, your comments about feeling somewhat feminine around males and people's reactions to your indifference are interesting. my indifference to a lot of "feminine" things/discussions makes other women feel strange around me sometimes. Maybe that's why I tend to hang out with more guys or get along with them well and quickly--they make me feel more feminine.


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## Lucretius (Sep 10, 2009)

I'd say I usually relate better to females. I interact with them a lot easier too.
This has definitely made me feel a bit like a social outcast at times. For awhile I tried really hard to _change_ my personality to be more "manly" (in other words, more egotistical, belligerent, and tactless) but I got sick of it pretty quickly. I am more comfortable with myself nowadays.


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## entpreter (Aug 5, 2009)

totefee said:


> 4. My other, older cousin who is my age got mad at me a month ago because she was upset and I didn't comfort her. I didn't even know she was upset. That is another thing that is unfeminine of me. I am not the comforting kind. I have to force myself to comfort people. It's hard for me.


totefee, I am uncomfortable with comforting people too! It's such strange thing and I have to remind myself that I would probably want to be comforted too in certain situations even if I wouldn't admit it. so I make myself, but it's in my own way, a more pragmatic way and less touchy feely. the older I get the better I am at this, but I still need the other person to TELL me when they need comforting or else it might go right over my head.


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## NewSoul (Mar 27, 2009)

Well. My type is very common, but I don't really fit in that well. Whether or not I am a feeler, I definitely do not act like one. I've always been more of a tomboy. My best friends when I was little were boys. I just can't relate to most girls my age. I don't like people greeting me with a hug, I'm don't really care about clothes, and I don't really care about guys either. So yeah, even common types don't fit in sometimes. :laughing:

I have difficulty with comforting people also. I know this girl who is really nice, but she's hyper-sensitive and cries a lot. But she also has a pretty hard time. She isn't as fortunate as a lot of people I know, including myself. I wish I could comfort her, but I just don't know how. It's like, I can't hug her because I don't know how I'd go about doing that. Hugging is not my thing (unless it's with family of course.)


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

I'm strongly T and people seem to think that I'm gay. I'm not, but I don't have many traditionally masculine interests. I'm not really feminine either.


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## Kastor (Aug 28, 2009)

You'd think I'd be girlier, being INFP and the femme stereotype that goes with it, but that's really not the case with me at all. If anything I feel more like a guy, or at least have more guyish mannerisms.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

totefee said:


> I often feel like the "odd woman out." I'm an INTP, who is bordering INTJ. I go with INTP because I think that I am slightly more INTp than INTj, although I do have INTj tendencies.
> 
> 1. I look like a girl, obviously. I wear girl clothes. I have long hair at the moment, but I am thinking about getting hair cut next week ( only to get my hair medium-length, but not too short ). However, I never wear make up and I seldom wear jewelry. I don't really care about that stuff. I brush my hair. I straighten my hair once every few months, or when I feel like doing the work. I normally do the bare essentials... wearing deodorant, showering, brushing my hair ( which ends up getting messy somehow ), and brushing my teeth. I wear decent clothing, but I am not a slave to fashion.


Yeah, I have long hair and actually some very feminine clothes and like jewelry if it's not in my way... but it's about my own self-expression and my own convenience, not what is popular. if I don't like it, I don't wear it. I try not to make waves, but I basically rationalize through the situation and determine what will suit me to wear while minimizing conflict (unless I decide I don't care).



> 2. I'm a Thinker, not a Feeler, so that's a big difference. We Thinkers feel, but for me, personally, I just don't like crying. Most of the time, my state of mind is pretty clear and indifferent. My mom tells me I'm an "asshole" because there is this girl who just got her baby taken away. The girl does drugs, drinks too much, prostitutes, doesn't work, and other "bad" things. My mom feels bad for her, but I don't. I told my mom, "I am glad that baby is being taken away. The authorities are doing the right thing." My mom tells me I'm mean, but I don't care. I don't think I am being mean. I am just being honest and it's the right thing to take the baby away from that girl. She's fucked up. ( THe girl was a childhood friend, but we are obviously not freinds anymore ).


Totally agree. I can empathize with the fucked-up mom -- it sucks to lose your baby -- but at the same time she's not doing her job, and so the child needs to be taken care of.

And actually, even if that sounds like a T thing, it can also be an Fe thing. I think your mother's view of F is more sentimentalism than mature Fe, which would look out not just for the mom but for the baby and be able to align with your thoughts on the matter.

(of course, how the line is delivered might come across as mean I suppose, but the idea is NOT mean, it's actually very compassionate... the baby needs cared for, the mom is obviously needing space to get her life together!)



> 3. Like Jenny above me said, I don't fawn over babies. I don't have anything against babies or children. I'm indifferent to most of them. I'll be polite, but it's a polite indifference. The only child I really care about is my cousin, who is one and a half. When I saw my cousin two weeks ago, I surprised no one that I was paying more attention to the cat than the baby.


hee. I like cats.

Easier to deal with than babies. 



> 4. My other, older cousin who is my age got mad at me a month ago because she was upset and I didn't comfort her. I didn't even know she was upset. That is another thing that is unfeminine of me. I am not the comforting kind. I have to force myself to comfort people. It's hard for me.


I had to work at it. I actually am half-decent at it now, but took me years to acquire some skill and perception of expectation. Sometimes I just dont have the energy, honestly; and also, sometimes I think they got themselves into their own mess, and my comforting them is coddling them... so I just can't do it deeply and still maintain my integrity. If they want "compassionate but tough love," then they can come to me; if they want to be swaddled and coddled, they'll have to go elsewhere.

Ah, the perils of being a "T" woman. Sigh. 



> 5. I get told to "smile" a lot by people, both men and women, but mostly men. Honestly, I don't smile because I don't have a reason to. I am not angry or sad or anything when I don't smile. More like indiffernet. What am I supposed to do? Walk around like an idiot with a big smile on my face? I don't generally show emotions, nor do I get enthused easily. When I am happy, I try my best not to smile or show enthusiasm. It's my first instinct.


ROFL.

I actually practiced in front of a mirror for a whole month, to learn how to smile. Honest. 

Now I do it naturally, it's not forced. But it's a weird feeling at first, I admit.. and makes it easier for people to engage. That's why I did it, I wanted to be able to express warmth if I felt it for someone, and I wanted to leave people cues that I was open to being engaged by them, rather than feeling I was indifferent. (Because I do like people, I just process them through a T and not an F sense.)



> I think she mistakes ( like a lot of people ) that someone who isn't smiling *must *be angry.


yes, that's her issue... it's immature people sense, not all the external cues represent the inner intent.


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

*Unabomber*



Kevinaswell said:


> Well....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*I-type*

_"The solipsists"_

*INTP*-"the unabomber"
With the strong sense of values and identity, this type leads to a greater truth by quiet example.

Not my description.


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## entperson (Sep 14, 2009)

entpreter said:


> I thought about including this in the ENTP or Rational forums only, but I think the issue encompasses all Myers-Briggs types, and so I want to hear from all of you.
> 
> As a female ENTP, I often find myself going against the grain. Some find my female "T" attractive (platonically and romantically) , some find it intimidating or weird. For those of you who have a type that stereotypically or disproportionately belongs to the opposite sex, please explain others’ reactions to you or your own experiences. I'm not really asking if you like your type or not, I'm just asking about your observations.
> 
> Now's your chance to gripe!


As a fellow female ENTP I know exactly where you're coming from. I think a lot of female NT's have this same problem. I suppose it's because I don't give a damn what rehab that Olsen twin is in this week, or watch the Hills, or care about fashion. I've also been told I walk like a man, however it is that men walk. People that are close to me understand that I do have a great deal of femininity, but it is in my value and morals, rather than my outward appearance. I think overall we are seen as tomboyish simply because we are naturally rebellious and non conformists.


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## Fanille (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't have any specific statistics to back this up, but I think the idea that females are mostly Feelers and males are mostly Thinkers is more of a social construct than it is reality. Males are generally taught to be tough while females are generally taught to be warm and gentle.

I personally know quite a few Thinking females, and they strike me more as "bitchy" rather than "masculine" (not that I think all Thinking females are bitches, but I feel like that's a better term since most of these women would otherwise look pretty feminine to me).

I have had a tendency to mistype ExxP females as Feelers rather than Thinkers, though -- with Perceiving types it usually is harder to tell whether they're Thinkers or Feelers.

One strange thing I've noticed on my end though is that, being an S, I'm more clothes-conscious than many INxx males that I know. Some of my friends have made fun of me for actually spending money on clothes and shoes, even though said clothes and shoes are athletic stuff like UnderArmour or Nike. Compared to ESxxs (male or female) I don't buy clothes as often, but it is interesting to note that there are some people who would consider me "girly" for doing something like this.


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## Sidewinder (May 22, 2009)

ISFP sure ain't the traditional masculine role, but I think most of us are actually pretty balanced. The secondary Se gives us a few rough edges to wrap around our sensitive interiors. :laughing: All SPs are at least a little tough and assertive when they need to be. Being good at physical skills also helps earn some "guy points".

But I'm also a calm, gentle person. In work or in the public eye, I tend to be a little more quiet and reserved, which is more traditional for guys and somewhat ISTP-like. With people I know well, my behavior's warmer and my free spirited, laid back style comes out a little more. I don't feel bad about it at all. :happy:


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## totefee (Aug 6, 2009)

Jennywocky said:


> Yeah, I have long hair and actually some very feminine clothes and like jewelry if it's not in my way... but it's about my own self-expression and my own convenience, not what is popular. if I don't like it, I don't wear it. I try not to make waves, but I basically rationalize through the situation and determine what will suit me to wear while minimizing conflict (unless I decide I don't care).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Definitely true.

I remember we were talking about the "fucked up" mom. I remember when I was little and my mom would talk about how ladies would get their babies taken away for doing drugs. ( This was when I was a kid ). I remember telling my mom, "They should get their kids taken away!" I don't have much compassion for people who are irresponsible and pop out babies and then they complain about being poor. 

I'm retarded when it comes to dating and social things, though. I am sure many male and female INTx's can agree upon that. Whenever I guy would take interest in me, my first instinct is that I ignore him because I fear relationships and getting really close to someone. I don't think it would be THAT bad to live alone, though. At least you don't have a husband or wife to control you or nag you. Then you can do what you want and with extra money since you don't have children, you can do what you want. 

As for me, I am not a relationship oriented person ( T value ). I value the few friends I have and I am loyal to them and completely reliable. I'm also reliable with my sister, whom I am very close to. I do care, but it's only to people close to me. I prefer not to coddle or show too much affection, but I'd rather take someone out to eat when they are feeling bad.


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## totefee (Aug 6, 2009)

mortabunt said:


> I'm strongly T and people seem to think that I'm gay. I'm not, but I don't have many traditionally masculine interests. I'm not really feminine either.


I knew a guy guy who I suspect was strongly T. But, anyway, I think people only think that way about you is because you're not dating anyone. A lot of quiet guys get that. Our society is fucked up that if you're not dating someone of the opposite sex or not very social, then you *must *be gay. I doubt it has anything to do with your T. I've met some extremely masculine Feeling men. 

You don't have to have many traditionally masculine interests. You don't have to like sports just because you're a guy. Not everyone is good at sports or even likes them. Other masculine activities are drinking too much and racing cars. 

I'm a girl, obviously, but I don't have many masculine interests, either, NOR do I have many feminine interests. A lot of the things I like are activities enjoyed by both men and women.


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## pianopraze (Jun 29, 2009)

I'm the guy most women say they want before they run of with the jerks that treat them horrid.

Tall dark & handsome mixed with brooding artistic romantic... what's not to love?

Other than living with myself...

And running off with the beautiful women who treat ME horrid...


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## entpreter (Aug 5, 2009)

pianopraze said:


> I'm the guy most women say they want before they run of with the jerks that treat them horrid.
> 
> Tall dark & handsome mixed with brooding artistic romantic... what's not to love?
> 
> ...


deep down, we're all sadomasochists, piano. :shocked:


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## Psilo (Apr 29, 2009)

I've always had a hard time with gender roles. Whether that's a cause or an effect, I'm also fairly gender blind. When I'm with a group of girls I stand out as the tomboyish one which is only the case due to comparison. With the guys, I stand out as obviously the female of the group. I wouldn't mind, except that it always changes the way I'm treated. Guys tip toe around me like they are afraid to break me and with girls I have a hard time finding a topic to relate to them. 

With that said, superficially I have an easier time with the guys, and on a deeper level the girls. 

This entire post is very generally speaking, of course.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

What totefee said is highly accurate. I don't get dates, but I'm strongly heterosexual. Although I seem to give off a weak exterior, most people don't know about my inner grit. I've only once ever been incapacitate by pain. I suppress injuries and wounds that would make most people collapse. I've taken pain beyond what my peers can comprehend.


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## VenusMisty (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm ESxP and generally tend to initimidate males (as possible romantic partners) unless they are very comfortable with gender identity or tend to question it. With dudes, I can often come off as one of the guys...they are attracted sexually, but my masculine side is incredibly well developed. After I saw Queer as Folk, I wanted to be Brian Kinney...if that tells you anything. I tend to initiate most things with partners, am very straight-forward, and as a P, don't understand the 'relationship management' issues that are typically thought to be the XX domain. I would say that it isn't just T...SP, especially ESP can be very offputting to some. My speech can be like that of a truck driver, and I tend to swear a lot but I also have a wide vocabulary and can at times be quite lyrical. I think my gender identity is pretty balanced, though physically I look pretty feminine...except for the look in my eyes and the broad-shoulders and built lats and delts that don't even require me to work out. The thing is, I'm also an only child a nd I think sometimes female only children subconsciously try to make up for the fact that they weren't males. When I would learn about a tool, I had to learn myself--my dad wouldn't teach me. He'd yell at me for wasting his time...but today, I caught him trying to explain how power tools work to our golden retriever, so I'm guessing he's just crazy.  Gender can be totally useless at times. I like being female only when it doesn't get in the way of how I want to live my life. But being pretty good friends with some MTF transwomen, I've come to appreciate it more. I sometimes envy them for the things they had access to having been raised as boys, and in a way identify with them, because I question being categorized by gender in most areas of life, and am very appearance conscious and love the hair/makeup routines. This sounds like a stereotype, but is the truth, at least among my compatriots. I've actually seen males who thought they were completely gay be attacted to me and get very confused about it. Plus, my last boyfriend had hair down to his ass, and passed as a woman completely when he lived with me for a week in my all-female dorm. I enjoyed subverting the system there. Who's business is it anyway what the contents of your pants are but your own...and those you directly involve?


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## eyeless_aughra (Oct 21, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> I can fit into "typical female culture" just fine, I've developed the skills to do that and enjoy the interactions on some level... but I usually still feel some level of detachment from the whole thing. I really like children but I don't fawn over them like many women seem to; and if one gets hurt or picked on, my tendency instead of coddling them is more to toughen them up or empower them in some way to resolve their own issues, if that is appropriate. I can be sentimental in some contexts but generally prefer a rational analysis of things. I hate teddy bear t-shirts and Precious Moments and foo-foo stuff, even though in my own way I'm very feminine (just more elegant, I suppose, rather than gushy female). I usually fit in much better with scrappy women, or professional women-- women with backbone -- not the women in the typical church settings I was immersed in for years where there's a particular sort of femininity espoused.It's kind of hard to describe. When I'm with guys, it's pretty clear I'm "feminine" in comparison but I still find men easier to deal with on some levels. A female identity, definitely, for me; but as far as how I "fit in," I sort of feel like I'm between both binary gender groupings in how I relate, or that I fit into either category sufficiently enough to enjoy myself but sometimes still feel apart from things.


I'm also an INTP women and feel exactly the same way. When I was younger I tried really hard to be more like an F, like most of the girls I knew. And in some aspects I succeeded. But for the most part I was always different. It was like a breathe of fresh air the first time I met women who were more like me.


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## YoungBlood41 (Feb 12, 2014)

I'm a female ISTJ and have always had a hard time fitting in with my female peers, or even any "feeling" type. I've always been attracted to more masculine roles, especially when I was younger, in play time or make believe I'd always play the Ken Doll, or the male role. I often have communication problems with feeling types, as I don't really know how to comfort or validate feelings. The femininity I do possess was a learned behavior that I picked up from some female friends, and although I definitely do enjoy wearing dresses, styling my hair, and putting on make up, they certainly aren't natural behaviors for me. It's neat, it's like I get to explore aspects of both genders. I can be masculine around my guy peers, and practice being feminine around my female peers. I'm definitely an isolated person though, as I don't feel I truly fit in 100% with either gender, which makes it very hard to get close to people.


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## Glory (Sep 28, 2013)

some guys have told me that I stick to a single topic much more strongly than females typically do... I honestly don't know what it is or what it actually means (Ni? Ti?). I'd like to think I stay the course with whatever is on my mind, but I've never really quite noticed this (or anything for that matter) being something atypical of one gender or the other since I don't really 'connect' with either one. Basically I'm a little on the 'genderqueer' side and have no clue if a specific type relates with that.


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## skyrimorchestra (Jul 23, 2014)

Yep. This is a thing. I'm one of those people who doesn't talk much but when they do it's like fucking retarded shit like, _doesn't this headset wire clip thingy look like Alien? *Nom nom nom nom.* Look it's eating!_ while I'm on a call.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

Yeah, I generally get along with guys, but with women isn't too easy as most of the time I feel alienated when I'm talking with them, and this is rather bad IRL. My few female friends are Te or Fi types, at least that's what I've noticed, therefore I get along with them easily, specially as we also share interests.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

ESTP women make up about 2-4% of the population. I never felt unfeminine. I was always into clothes and hair and make-up. I just also happen to like sports and engines and guns. I was always too feminine to be one of the guys. 

I'm a mother and generally don't fit in well with other mothers. I don't want to do crafts with them. I don't want to do a bake sale. They don't think I dress appropriately, which is dumb because I've toned it down since I had kids. I always felt very feminine and thought I got along with other women until motherhood. It seems women I get along with don't have kids. My closest friends don't have kids so they can't empathize with parenthood. But I can't relate to most mothers. Too many like to gossip and nitpick. I can only listen to how precious the piglets at the petting zoo were for so long before I ponder whether they sell the piglets to a slaughterhouse when they run out of space. 

I tended to see differences dating. Sure I flirt but when I was actually interested I made my intentions perfectly clear. I didn't play games. I want this. The guy I'm interested in wants this. What are we waiting for? I never struggled with pulling off sexy. I've been unaffected by people who tried to shame me. I'm comfortable with my body and I've always been very conscientious of who I've taken to bed. I'm unapologetic about my sex life and a people demand more modesty than I have available. I think they should mind their own business. My family are happy. That's what matters.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

As an INTP male I tend to fit in well with my close friends who are mostly SP's. My friends seem to be very interested in the concept of acquiring the oppurtunity to have sex with a girl. I can play along with that but I don't match them at all there. They would want sex for the pleasure and fun of it (I presume most people do.) But I'm more conservative in that area and expect a consequence from that namely having a child. Otherwise if I wanted to have sex for pleasure I'd buy it from a prostitute. I would never put forth a tremendous effort into getting a partner, just to have sex and realize it was fun. In terms of gender roles, I'm not even masculine, I'm a robot with masculine programming.


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## FourLeafCloafer (Aug 5, 2014)

People who know me know that I am not 'girlish', as for example I dislike dresses and skirts, don't like big cutouts and generally don't care that much about what I look like, as long as I'm clean, warm, and my clothes aren't too old or damaged. I don't wear make-up either.

I enjoy 'boyish' activities like mountain biking, hiking and camping, and I've been known to fulfill some traditionally 'male' roles in groups (during a forest walk at night, it was _me_ comforting the _guys_) But then I pick up my knitting or bake a cake and I see them thinking 'well, it's a girl after all.'


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## Rice (Apr 27, 2014)

I never had any issues. I was pretty feminine as a kid, although if you had asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up I would've listed off a bunch of rather masculine-sounding jobs. During my adolescence and teens I dressed in more masculine clothing, but still the only issues I ever had was from some family members being afraid that I was a lesbian (and to be fair, they weren't entirely wrong so I'll give them that). Most of my friends throughout my life were female, and I never had any issues getting along with them. I had no problems getting along with guys either, but I just didn't talk to them as much. I've had several guys tell me they were afraid to talk to me because they found me intimidating though, so that's probably why. 

Now I'm still not particularly feminine, but I still don't have any issues with it. At least no one's ever said anything to my face. People are more surprised to find out that my favorite color is light pink and that I collect Sanrio stuff than that I don't wear make up or that I haven't worn a dress since my age only had one digit.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

ESTJ female. I've never felt odd because gender stuff isn't something I pay attention to. I might notice it every once in awhile (like "hey, I'm the only chick in this app development workshop"), but it doesn't go past the observation stage. I don't take it to mean anything about me or anyone else. I dunno...I have more interesting things to think about than gender expectations.


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## GundamChao (Jun 17, 2014)

Common reaction to me, as a male ENFP: "Aww, he's so cute!"

(Not that I mind)


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## TwinAnthos (Aug 11, 2014)

entpreter said:


> I thought about including this in the ENTP or Rational forums only, but I think the issue encompasses all Myers-Briggs types, and so I want to hear from all of you.
> 
> As a female ENTP, I often find myself going against the grain. Some find my female "T" attractive (platonically and romantically) , some find it intimidating or weird. For those of you who have a type that stereotypically or disproportionately belongs to the opposite sex, please explain others’ reactions to you or your own experiences. I'm not really asking if you like your type or not, I'm just asking about your observations.
> 
> Now's your chance to gripe!



ISTP... Female xD Haha. Funny. I have no experiences with the opposite sex scaring all with my ISTP master stare of doom. In my defense, 15 year old hormonical guys (that really aren't that hot anyways) aren't worthy my time. The ones in books and movies are good though. _They _don't bother me . Now why can't my classmates do the same?


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

Did anyone else realize how old this forum is? 




Girls are always supposed to be taken as feelers. I've been dismissed as an ESFJ just because I was a female. "There's no way a girl can be an INTP! You're probably just an ESFJ."


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## TwinAnthos (Aug 11, 2014)

inevitabilis said:


> Did anyone else realize how old this forum is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope. I only saw the most recent posts figuring it was still active and ok to write in.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

TwinAnthos said:


> Nope. I only saw the most recent posts figuring it was still active and ok to write in.




I got surprised looking at the first few posts. 2009! That's 5 years ago. Just think about it. Whoa.


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## TwinAnthos (Aug 11, 2014)

inevitabilis said:


> I got surprised looking at the first few posts. 2009! That's 5 years ago. Just think about it. Whoa.


I looked at it when you said "Did anyone else realize how old this forum is?"
Strange how time passes by so quickly.


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## Kyro (May 26, 2014)

TwinAnthos said:


> I looked at it when you said "Did anyone else realize how old this forum is?"
> Strange how time passes by so quickly.




Time is crazy. Who dismissed it was right? Who dismissed that at this time it will be these set of numbers? Why did we agree that time exists? To make sense of it? 5 years already! People were on this forum 5 years ago. We're keeping the tradition, baby. Tradition is cool.


I just realized that was all Ne mumbo-jumbo.


Excuse me.


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## TwinAnthos (Aug 11, 2014)

inevitabilis said:


> Time is crazy. Who dismissed it was right? Who dismissed that at this time it will be these set of numbers? Why did we agree that time exists? To make sense of it? 5 years already! People were on this forum 5 years ago. We're keeping the tradition, baby. Tradition is cool.
> 
> 
> I just realized that was all Ne mumbo-jumbo.
> ...


mumbo jumbo sound accurate. Haha :kitteh:

You're excused. :happy:


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## kimpossible119 (May 15, 2014)

I'm an intj, a rare type, especially in women. My thoughts, actions, topics of conversation, interests, etc. are typically more masculine. I feel that people are just intimidated (and maybe more than a little intrigued?) because I don't act like the stereotypical female. I don't think they know what to think or how to approach me, and they are often caught off guard by my abrupt and straightforward method of communicating.


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