# How do your functions manifest themselves in everyday life?



## Tranquility (Dec 16, 2013)

Octavian said:


> I spent some time talking with an INTP friend of mine, and it seems that he has constant internal monologues, as in an internal voice that is arguing, frameworking, and etc. Is it the same for you? I found it interesting that by contrast, I rarely hear any internal talking, except for when I'm reading, or in Te-mode.


Yes, it is.


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## Octavian (Nov 24, 2013)

ephemereality said:


> @Octavian thanks. Never read that article by Lenore. I wish someone had given me Lenore when I was new to all this shit. A lot of the stuff she writes resonates well with me. Would have saved me so much time and trouble.


Lenore is kind of inconsistent, but even Jung is. Her judging function descriptions need some work, but her perceiving ones are done extremely well imo. I like her Ni descriptions more than Jung's.


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## Octavian (Nov 24, 2013)

Blue Flare said:


> Well, INTJs and INFJs have different cognitive styles, as one is DA while the other is VS, so that can explain why you notice such difference.


Do you have a good link for that? I know near nothing of socionics and can't find anything satisfactory.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Octavian said:


> Do you have a good link for that? I know near nothing of socionics and can't find anything satisfactory.


Gulenko Cognitive Styles(wiki) - Wikisocion

Another part you may want to look into is Reinin. I alluded to one dichotomy already being process-result that differs between INFJs and INTJs.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

Octavian said:


> Do you have a good link for that? I know near nothing of socionics and can't find anything satisfactory.


This is the text that I've read : Gulenko Cognitive Styles - Wikisocion I haven't found any other relevant text about that topic, so I would also recommend to check some of the Reinin dichotomies as well, like process/result, so I will leave some links : Process and result - Wikisocion , Positivist and negativist - Wikisocion


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

Octavian said:


> It's fascinating. I'm of the impression that there are undiscovered or yet-to-be created tricks, paradigms, strategies, and etc. that could greatly transform or disrupt the current systematic proceedings (to my own benefit.) So my focus is on that, rather than the typical strategic directives that aim for long term sustainability and clutch survival of market changes.
> 
> I do have a sort of mischievous approach to strategy, which lines up with this description to a degree:
> 
> Articles - Introverted Intuition


That sounds like an excellent approach to me. 

Lenore is my favorite author on Jungian functions, actually. I prefer her descriptions of the functions over most other sources.



> I've always been of the suspicion that Te/Fe creates some sort of difference between INTJ Ni and INFJ Ni. Most say "objective vs. social systems," but that just indicates natural inclination and gravitation. Between myself and significant other (INFJ) there is marked difference between our Ni's. Whether the context be social or objective, we hit upon the same interpretations and conclusions quite consistently.


I've always felt the difference primarily lies in expression. I mean, I'm sure the two types seem very different, but I'm not sure that they differ on the Ni level. If you look at white light filtered through a red lens instead of a blue lens, you'll see red instead of blue light. Te and Fe are the lenses, Ni is the light. You can't see the light directly, because it has to pass through a lens to enter the outside world.

Also, an INFJ's inner world is colored by Ti, while an INTJ's is colored by Fi. This creates further differences. 

In other words, I don't think the Ni itself changes its nature between the two types, it just expresses itself through different media. 



ephemereality said:


> Never read that article by Lenore. I wish someone had given me Lenore when I was new to all this shit. A lot of the stuff she writes resonates well with me. Would have saved me so much time and trouble when I tried to figure out my type in the past.


Yeah, Lenore's work is a major reason I chose to stay with MBTI rather than looking into Socionics further. Her function descriptions and ideas resonated with me more than anything I ever read in a profile of IEI or EII.

My concept of type comes from reading Lenore's function definitions, Beebe's function-archetype roles, and the idea that Ti/Fe, Ni/Se, Fi/Te, and Si/Ne operate as exclusive function-preference pairs. You prefer one pair over the alternatives, regardless of which is dominant. Basically, I don't believe in the idea of an INTP with "strong Fi" or anything like that.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Fi: I basically navigate the world through a lens of whether I Like or Do Not Like things. Haha. But it is not that simple, and it's not conscious. I guess it basically helps me gauge the level of self-preservation I need in any given situation, in order to stay feeling balanced and "okay". So if I'm talking to someone, I'm focused on how I feel about the conversation and the person and the circumstance, and I guard myself (or open up) accordingly. I basically make all kinds of decisions based on whether or not it's going to make me feel good (which doesn't always mean "happy" so much as "in harmony with my values" or "safe within my element"). I think it's also what causes me to shut down from other people so often, because I want to sort out how I'm feeling, and find a way to feel better before I can meaningfully focus on anything else. 

Ne: Uhhhh... maybe this is what causes me to consider all kinds of weird and amusing hypotheticals and examine them at length as if they weren't completely moot, or daydream so wildly like I'm in a jungle with endless paths no matter where I go. I'm great at brainstorming and letting one idea lead to the next, and ending up in a completely different place than I started in because of it. 

Si: I have a really good memory and I definitely rely on past experience when I'm feeling unconfident about a decision or a situation. I'm really rather oblivious to my surroundings in general UNLESS there's a change in something that really matters to me, something sentimental perhaps. I have a damn hard time letting go of things with sentimental value, or breaking personally meaningful traditions (though I don't have many that come to mind off the top of my head, they're there). When Fi and Si go into cahoots, I become ridiculous in that way.

Te: I don't know. I solve problems by verbalizing my thought process as I go along, usually confusing any audience I might have had while I am at it. I go through things one by one in my mind and in my explanations, though often times covering subpoints within a specific point before moving onto the next. Either way, I keep to a certain structure, so as not to lose my frame of reference or thought process. I compartmentalize everything and notice a lot of inconsistencies when it comes to how I was expecting something to be presented or outlined. That's all I can really think of on this.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

EthereaEthos said:


> Ti: I've completely structured my mind. I've isolated and identified multiple complexes using Jungian definitions. I then get into arguments with the various aspects of my mind. :tongue:


It's so weird, despite the fact that multiple tests and questionnaires claimI have strong Ti, I can never fully relate to the whole mental structuring thing so many other INTPs seem to just _do_. I've got the constant internal monologue, the arguments with "various aspects of my mind"...yet it doesn't feel organized or structured to me. Perhaps I'm taking it in the wrong connotation or envisioning the type of "structure" incorrectly?


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## aniareilean (Apr 27, 2014)

I never realized it before... but I realized that Ne is the main fuel for my creativity... in the form of shipping! Lol. I wrote an incoherent ramble about this one time because I had too many feels... LOL.



> Am I the only person who has this happen to me all the time? You become just acquainted with somebody, and then the subject of favorite tv shows/movies/books come up and you’re just like, SUPER excited all, “OMG BLAH BLAH BLAH I GOT MUCH FEELS AND SHIP THIS ENTIRE LIST HERE~” *they’re like wtf . And It’s just like, RLY embarrassing because it’s like, you just revealed how much you are a weirdo you are? And then cue the desire to retract your statement and curl up and die. Because sometimes I get really invested in shipping (and it’s become an almost trained instinct for me at this point) I forget how, for many people, it’s not a normal thing to?
> 
> [….]
> 
> ...


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

athenian200 said:


> Yeah, Lenore's work is a major reason I chose to stay with MBTI rather than looking into Socionics further. Her function descriptions and ideas resonated with me more than anything I ever read in a profile of IEI or EII.


Same, though that also applies to Fi for me. I really related to her description of Fi and that's why I initially mistyped as Fi dom after I explored types beyond the MBTI test. 



> My concept of type comes from reading Lenore's function definitions, Beebe's function-archetype roles, and the idea that Ti/Fe, Ni/Se, Fi/Te, and Si/Ne operate as exclusive function-preference pairs. You prefer one pair over the alternatives, regardless of which is dominant. Basically, I don't believe in the idea of an INTP with "strong Fi" or anything like that.


Agreed on INTP with Fi. I used to think that though, trying to justify my own Fi-ness haha. Funnily I reacted to having Fi even before I got into genuine function theory. It's kind of odd. I also predicted that my ideal type partner is an ExFP, and if you go back to posts I wrote back then, I also wrote about having an INTJ mode LOL. It's mostly uncanny how I predicted things about myself before I actually even could accurately understand these things.


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## Hiemal (Jan 5, 2014)

Ni: Constant Fantasizing, Always seeing the most efficient route to take and ignoring excess information, Getting pissed off at people who don't see the most efficient route to take and don't believe me when I tell them that's the best one, Understanding what something will be like without actually doing it, such as being another person, imagining what skydiving would be like and why I will never do it (thanks inferior Se), paranoia everywhere. Interpreting things entirely idiosyncratically, reliance on visual thinking for understanding. Being able to see the basic foundation of a concept and see how that basic foundation was created and the reasoning behind it. Playing out little timelines for fun, such as "what would result from me punching this person in the face" (This particularly was motivated from Se)

Positive Motto: This is the path/truth/meaning.
Negative Motto: This is all futile, all trends lead to termination. 

Te: Direct, linear reasoning. Step-by-step (sort of). Clear cut. Don't waste time exploring pointless avenues. Base decisions off of objective evidence and truth derived from the environment. Utility > Aesthetic. Ni applied to technical information. Base everything off of probabilities. Analyze all problems objectively, including emotional problems if Fi is off. 

Positive Motto: Get shit done.
Negative Motto: - at all costs.

Fi: Either completely on or completely off. On, and extreme paranoia with Ni-Fi mechanism and dark, hidden emotions arise. Off, stoicism and rationalism prevail. Wants what it can't have, and deeply angered and insidiously melancholic. Highly depressive. Fi is positive when it associates beauty with technical things and idiosyncratic understanding, to value that which has been derived and interpreted. 

Positive Motto: Look at the beauty of it all.
Negative Motto: Look at the evil of it all, it must be purged.

Se: Completely unconscious. Grabs random information passively, memorization is entirely unconscious and making any conscious effort to memorize seems to halt inf. Se's ability to absorb the information like a sponge. Extremely wanted and loved for its self-assertion and dominating nature yet caution is necessary so it won't take things too far. If Fi is on, then unconscious Se proves to be oriented to physical anger and violent self-expression. Puzzled as to things I know and where they came from.

Positive Motto: *insert picture of serene mountain towering into the sky with a tranquil lake in the foreground, forests surrounding both*
Negative Motto: Face reality, idealist. 
Directed Negative Motto: I will break you.


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)

Octavian said:


> Ni: Flights of fantasy basically. When it isn't dealing in pure fantasy it leans into imagery. I have thought in images from the time that I was a child and that continues to this day. When I'm spoken to, or if I come across some sort of abstracted concept, I grasp it via my internal images.
> 
> Earlier today I saw a car getting ready to switch lanes going at least 80mph, the other car seemingly unaware. At that moment I could see the glass shattering, the dasboard caving in, the steering wheel being forcibly jammed inward, all of the associated sounds, all of it vividly so, with myself inside that car. The accident that occurred wasn't nearly as bad, there was just a dent in the two cars but I often experience something to that affect. Something slight acting as a trigger to temporarily place "me" somewhere else, inside of a thing, inside of a person, inside of a concept, outside of myself.
> 
> Where Jung says the introverted intuitive stops at perception and never turns the image into a moral problem, that is extremely accurate.


Do the internal images relate themselves to everything you hear down to even words? I always wondered about that a little bit. I relate to even individual words via images and mine tend to take on a sort of sign language-y tint, though obviously not strictly limited to it most of the time. I had wondered if it was the same for others. Not that this is so vivid as to render one completely incapable of interacting, though I have noticed that if someone is saying many many words that I have to comprehend, I find it difficult to focus on their face. It even lost me a job at one point due to not being able to maintain eye contact... Assuming they're related and I'm not just a fucking aspie.

Anyway...

Ni: I liked Octavians example of a car crash. I always wondered how other people seem to enjoy speeding down highways so much as for me, I imagine the car crash happening, the car rolling over, glass dust peppering the air. Fire. Everything. Basically I play pretend all day. Imagine sort of far off scenarios involving superhuman feats, planes crashing into buildings I'm in, wild spontaneous sexual encounters with strangers of varying genders, being attacked by any passer by. My earliest memory of doing this was when I was very very young and related my name to the image of a steering wheel being turned, assumedly because of some experience I'd had with it, though I couldn't say for certain. I can never be brief on this.

Te: I actually have a pretty friendly attitude towards Te. In my mind, Te helps. He's a good guy lol. When I've already made a decision about something, Te comes and fills the space with logic and sort of ground for me to stand on. I use Te as a sort of echo location for my interactions with the world, though (and this could be unrelated) I find myself backward rationalizing constantly, which could be unhealthy. Te advises me to put my experiences and such outside of myself and compare them to the world.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Ni - Everyday is like Final Destination playing out in my head... almost constantly.

Fe - Deciphering what are people's thinking, feeling and motivation when I observe them up close or far away.

Ti - Questioning the most recent information that I receive and how it ties in with what I know or how it is inconsistent with any other information.

Se - Getting things done... physically making things happen.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

Ne: a constant stream of images, videos, or "realties" that are all interconnected in some fashion, with all the scenarios being played out based on all the differing factors.

Ti: Putting to language the relation of the factors jn the images, explaining to myself thoroughly all the relations going on and why, in a concise comprehensive format. The "whys" usually open up new doors for Ne to explore all the possibilities and so on.


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## Octavian (Nov 24, 2013)

In terms of fine art.



> Abstract: uses a visual language of form, color and line to create a composition which may exist with a degree of independence from visual references in the world. Abstraction indicates a departure from reality [...] This departure from accurate representation can be slight, partial, or complete. Total abstraction bears no trace of any reference to anything recognizable.


If for example, I am reading a book, my initial internal image is of a completely abstracted nature. Unclear, fuzzy, yet in constant motion. (sometimes I am inclined to say "internal film" rather than image.) In alignment with the definition, these abstractions bear no reference to anything recognizable, *visually,* they do serve as symbolic / interpretative references, just references that I cannot fully grasp or fathom into words.





































As I proceed, word by word, sentence by sentence, that abstraction continually evolves. The abstraction itself, in it's earliest form, simply represents a newness and unfamiliarity with whatever is at hand. As I deepen my familiarity, the internal image convulses into something surreal. It's like jamming a pen into the screen of a laptop and watching the ink, ranging every color in the spectrum, swirl and collide into a fantastical image, rather than a meaningless blob:



> Surrealism: The aim was to "resolve the previously contradictory conditions of dream and reality." Artists painted unnerving, illogical scenes with photographic precision, created strange creatures from everyday objects and developed painting techniques that allowed the unconscious to express itself and/or an idea/concept.







































My internal imagery and symbolism is a combination of the above styles in constant flux, eternally blending and feeding into each other. I have always experienced Ni in such a way."



> Do the internal images relate themselves to everything you hear down to even words? I always wondered about that a little bit. I relate to even individual words via images and mine tend to take on a sort of sign language-y tint, though obviously not strictly limited to it most of the time. I had wondered if it was the same for others. Not that this is so vivid as to render one completely incapable of interacting, though I have noticed that if someone is saying many many words that I have to comprehend, I find it difficult to focus on their face.


I don't know. I'd imagine the word would have to be standing alone or differentiated by tone of voice, syntax, or something. There is most often a sort of suspension until I can take something holistically. I'll have to pay more attention.



> Ni: I liked Octavians example of a car crash. I always wondered how other people seem to enjoy speeding down highways so much as for me, I imagine the car crash happening, the car rolling over, glass dust peppering the air. Fire. Everything. Basically I play pretend all day. Imagine sort of far off scenarios involving superhuman feats, planes crashing into buildings I'm in, wild spontaneous sexual encounters with strangers of varying genders, being attacked by any passer by. My earliest memory of doing this was when I was very very young and related my name to the image of a steering wheel being turned, assumedly because of some experience I'd had with it, though I couldn't say for certain. I can never be brief on this.


Most often is pure fantasy for me as well. I've no desire to be rational or logical unless it directly serves, feeds, or actualizes my intuitive inclinations. 



> Te: I actually have a pretty friendly attitude towards Te. In my mind, Te helps. He's a good guy lol. When I've already made a decision about something, Te comes and fills the space with logic and sort of ground for me to stand on. I use Te as a sort of echo location for my interactions with the world, though (and this could be unrelated) I find myself backward rationalizing constantly, which could be unhealthy. Te advises me to put my experiences and such outside of myself and compare them to the world.


I am utterly abusive to my Te. I often demand the impossible of it, forcing it to figure out ways to implement and act upon my Ni. However, I do think that's the reason it's improved so much.


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

I don't like thinking of Ti and Ne as separate. Everything I've studied is about structure and function, from auto mechanics/technology to biology & chemistry, etc. I've always tried to see everything from an aerial view in terms of structure and function. They go hand in hand; one cannot go without the other. I don't think I can emphasize enough how I think in that way.

Si: I'm finding that I have this preoccupation with being "practical" now. I don't think I even had the concept of it in earlier years.

Then I get these flashes of things I've seen, heard, and experienced. This really helps me out with school. While I'm studying, I'll hit a word or topic in my power points that triggers an instant flash right back to the instructor who lectured on it, for instance. Or I could be reading through a psychology textbook and hit a certain topic that sends me back in time when my dad said or did something that hurt me, as another example. I can feel the pain, as if I was reliving the experience almost. 

This function does get really annoying for me though. It makes it almost impossible for me to stay focused on what I'm doing at the moment, if something is really bothering me, like when my son was separated from me for over a year and I had no contact with him whatsoever. I kept getting these flashing pictures of him in my mind that brought with it tremendous heartache. This really sucks when you're trying to jam a bunch of information into your head while sitting through fast paced Medical Microbiology lectures.

Fe: I may sometimes worry too much that I may offend people with what's really on my mind, so I almost never reveal anything I'm thinking. Then there's the fear of revealing what I feel and poor expression of those feelings if I manage to do so. Management of my feelings can be hard as hell. Teasing out what I feel in the first place is just as hard.


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)

Octavian said:


> Post.


In my experience, the times I've experienced Ni the most vividly was when I was filling my head with knowledge. Reading specifically. I am nearly obsessed at this point of getting into that sort of "Zen-like" zone where I disconnect completely from the room and the letters on a book and almost cease to be. To me, Ni takes on a more cartoonish, anime, action movie style in terms of images, though as you said in a previous thread, I have to twist it to even communicate it.

I am unsure of how this sounds, but Ni, to me barely feels like it's part of me. I can identify Te and Fi as my emotions and what I use to accomplish my goals, but I feel as though I work in service of my Ni as opposed to it being a part of me. Even my INTJ forum tag has little to do with the other functions and has more to do with a symbolic identification to it. From the sounds of it, you get something similar. My Ni manifests outwardly as a constant desire to 'play the game', often adopting opinions and such for no reason or just to see if I can leverage logic in my favor. I think of how I can bend, break and manipulate it. Even at my job, I find myself applying knowledge I read from books and such to see what I can do. I see a cute girl "I wonder if I can get her to..." I see a ruleset "I bet I can..." I've even caught myself lying on occasion just to see, though admittedly not often. 

I like how you say you have no desire to be logical unless you need to. Like your emotions and thoughts grew up as you did, but Ni never did. It's a part of you that refuses to grow or change or listen to anybody but itself. I wrote this one post a few weeks ago that said something like 'I never really grew up. I just learned how to play the game."

I love the imagery, and it's a pity you even have to abstract it to communicate the experience to others. I often want to experience Ni the way other people do to see how it shows itself to them, though I'd imagine I'd want desperately to get back to my own.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

Ti: Viewing something a certain way and trying to work out why I have that view. Trying to pick apart what it is about the object/person that led me to the perception. Figuring out the best way to approach fixing something. Weighing up the pros and cons of decisions. Trying to explain things to others through the use of analogies. Picking apart different words and working out why they came to represent the object/event that they do. How the word links to others and what the person was thinking about when inventing the word. Why that word is beneficial in describing what it means. 

For example, why is a telephone called a telephone? Instead of researching why it is actually called a telephone and thinking about whether I can recall ever knowing why, I start afresh and break the word down. Telephone is like telepathy, so telephones can connect to others anywhere as telepathy allows you to go anywhere. Maybe there's a link with phonetics and phonemes as you can only connect to others on the phone via speech. Also phonemes are the distinct units which make up a language. Considering in the olden days the connection would've been worse, the quality of telephones that is, people had to rely on phonemes in order to try and make out what the other person was saying.

LOL, just found out that the first telephone call was made by Alexander Graham Bell, perhaps this is why people sometimes say "I'll give you a bell" to mean a call. At least that's slang in the UK. 

Se: Learning by trial and error. Approaching a strategy game in various ways to see the opponent's response and using a collection of these responses to build up a strategy. Wanting to run before I can walk. Trying to hit triple 20 on a dart board from 10 meters away before I'm good enough to even hit it from 3 meters away within 15 attempts. Challenging myself physically.

Ni: Errrrr.. Imagining dangerous scenarios. What if this car suddenly decided to take a massive swerve in my direction. Then I imagine the tires screeching, notice that there aren't many people around and the lighting is low and suddenly I'm actually considering this as a possibility. Is this Ni? Also trying to work out what someone does for a living, the experiences they've had growing up to get them to where they are by picturing them in those situations. Perhaps Ni is responsible for choosing accurate contexts and Ti tries to work out why I came to the conclusion. 

Fe: Wanting to be liked by everyone, even those people I don't particularly like. Seeing subtle changes in facial expressions and body language to get an understanding for how someone is feeling or what they're thinking. Wanting to stand out but not in a socially undesirable way. Having an internal battle between wanting to fit in and wanting to remain authentic to what I want for myself. Having trouble accepting compliments and feeling awkward when I compliment others. Listening to songs which match what mood I'm in and trying to interpret the lyrics so I can relate to them. Becoming emotional about something and later being embarrassed about it.

I still lack a good understanding of the functions so I may be off the mark here.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I hardly ever think about it consciously, I just go with my Ne and let the chips fall where they may.


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