# How to tell the difference between a sexual 8 and a 4?



## narfae (Feb 19, 2015)

drmiller100 said:


> I think of 1's as being self depriving, and wanting to "earn" their successes through self immolation. Perhaps when emotionally wounded you feel that self deprivation?
> For anger, you lean towards 8 as a 7. I don't think you use anger as power or energy as a true 8. Also, no shortage of anger in an unhealthy 1, which is what a 7 devolves to.........
> 
> if only you spent much time researching and learning and focusing on some subject (integrating towards 5) when you are happy and your basic needs are met......
> ...


I definitely use anger as power and energy, if that's relevant? Heheh. This is an interesting thread. ^.^


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

The 8 description is cool. I'm going to pick nits. Stalker is not an Sx 8 IMO. If someone rejects us, it still goes back to vulnerability, and the rejection thereof. Stalker behavior is the victim having power and control over the stalker. 

I'm not jealous by most standards.

The rest is spot on. Note how the desire for someone strong enough to relax with conflicts with pliant.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

drmiller100 said:


> I don't know what that means??????????????


Haha . Guess!


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

narfae said:


> I don't care whether I am unique or not, actually. It's just not something I think about. I am true to myself, which can make me seem eccentric and therefore unique; but really, if everyone was true to themselves, their eccentricity and uniqueness would become obvious also. Humans are a bunch of weirdos, right? Haha.


"If everyone would behave like me, this wouldnt be a problem!" heheheeee. Very 8ish  (Or 7w8. My 7w8 father might say something like that too.)



> I do feel other's pain and emotions... but, I didn't give a crap until recently. Like. I was semi-aware of the affect I had on people, but I didn't really give it any thought or care? It took me a while to realize that I was kind of a jerk (to elaborate, a jerk meaning, cruel mockery, belittling, etc.) and to try to temper myself a bit, which, come to think of it, is my way of showing people I love them. Being gentler.


This sounds not core 4.... not that 4s cant be jerks because we absolutely can.. but I can't imagine a 4 saying it took them a while to realize..etc.. its hard to explain..but it's a lot less "Self absorbed" about who you are than a 4 might be... 4s are like an internal hall of mirrors, always looking around inside themselves.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

narfae said:


> I don't care whether I am unique or not, actually. It's just not something I think about. I.


said no enneagram 4 EVER. FWIW, 8's don't tend to worry about this, but neither do 7's. 




narfae said:


> I do feel other's pain and emotions... but, I didn't give a crap until recently. Like. I was semi-aware of the affect I had on people, but I didn't really give it any thought or care? It took me a while to realize that I was kind a jerk (to elaborate, a jerk meaning, cruel mockery, belittling, etc.) and to try to temper myself a bit, which, come to think of it, is my way of showing people I love them. Being gentler.


People have feelings, emotions. Let's say someone is in heartache due to someone close to them dying. Do you FEEL their pain? Do you internalize their pain and feel it as their own?

I do not. Ever. I can sort of empathize, I suppose. But I don't feel their feelings. 

Picking on Animal, she FEELS other people's pain as her own. She internalizes it. She can also share her emotions to others, if they are not deaf to it like me. She SCREAMS her emotions and feelings and shares them to the world. That, to me, is a powerful NF 4. 

Most people are somewhere in the middle. 

How old are you?


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

drmiller100 said:


> Picking on Animal, she FEELS other people's pain as her own. She internalizes it.


Not totally true. I mean it's true in the moment but I also am very self-absorbed. When I'm speaking to someone in that moment I feel their pain as my own like a mirror.... but then the minute I walk away I'm back to my own world... they don't "get under my skin" - because this emotional compassion is my natural state. Nothing actually gets under my skin. The only person whose pain bothers me when he's not right in front of me is the person I'm in love with. Then I will spend time mulling over how angry I am at people who are horrible to him or how to make him feel better, analysing his reactions to my past attempts, crying because of his hardships etc. Occasionally there's a big enough event in someone else's life, a friend or a family member, that I will think about it or feel sad on my spare time..but rarely. However that doesn't mean my compassion is fake. If I seem upset in the moment I am, truly. At that moment, it really does hit me. And I will go out of my way to try to help or listen.


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## narfae (Feb 19, 2015)

drmiller100 said:


> said no enneagram 4 EVER. FWIW, 8's don't tend to worry about this, but neither do 7's.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I... don't, really. o.o It depends, though. Sometimes I can be so apathetic. Like, shit happens... this isn't going to shock or move me, type deal. At the same time... I am not a heartless creature, and I can even be very compassionate and internalize others' feelings. Depends on the person, the situation, etc., really. When I was a child, I was called insensitive a lot.... So... no set answer for this one. Though I may not start crying or what have you when someone is hurt, I am more likely than most to go out of my way/take action to help them? 

I am 21.


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## narfae (Feb 19, 2015)

Also, I am way more compassionate toward animals than humans... like... in war movies or what have you, I don't bat an eye to people dying, but if it's a horse... I will be angry. Hahahahaha. Not sure that that is relevant at all, but when it comes to empathy and what have you... most of it is reserved for animals and I kind of have to make myself empathize with humans sometimes. Like, animals are innocent, humans bring a lot of things on themselves with wars and such.


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## narfae (Feb 19, 2015)

drmiller100 said:


> The 8 description is cool. I'm going to pick nits. Stalker is not an Sx 8 IMO. If someone rejects us, it still goes back to vulnerability, and the rejection thereof. Stalker behavior is the victim having power and control over the stalker.
> 
> I'm not jealous by most standards.
> 
> The rest is spot on. Note how the desire for someone strong enough to relax with conflicts with pliant.


I agree! I like the sx 8 one. I relate to it more than the 4 one for sure. The, giving a thoughtful gift and pretending it's not a big deal is so me.... It makes me uncomfortable when they talk about how sweet it is and stuff, I'm just like, 'no, I just, uh, oh God.' I remember once in grade school, a kid needed 10 cents for a snack, so I gave it to them, and when they thanked me I was so disgruntled that I told them off. Crazy....


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> I think of 1's as being self depriving, and wanting to "earn" their successes through self immolation. Perhaps when emotionally wounded you feel that self deprivation?


my sense of deprivation is not a self-inflicted deprivation (that's Social 7, non-Sx 4 and sometimes 1), but a more 5-ish feeling of deprivation. "I don't have enough enough resources to survive and be comfortable and happy". I live frugally because I'm not too financially well off at the moment, but it's not out of any sense of abstinence or "trying to 



> For anger, you lean towards 8 as a 7. I don't think you use anger as power or energy as a true 8. Also, no shortage of anger in an unhealthy 1, which is what a 7 devolves to.........


I relate both to 1-ish and 8-ish anger pretty strongly, but more 1 (though most of it is directed outward as opposed to inward lol). the connection points to 7 are really the main thing that makes me think it's a likely typing



> if only you spent much time researching and learning and focusing on some subject (integrating towards 5) when you are happy and your basic needs are met......
> (smiles)................


passive-aggression eh?


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> m
> 
> 
> passive-aggression eh?



no no no . My apologies.

I was alluding to your desire to understand enneagram and mbti and ..... and ... You research well. You can do it well. I was alluding to your obvious to me connection to 5.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> no no no . My apologies.
> 
> I was alluding to your desire to understand enneagram and mbti and ..... and ... You research well. You can do it well. I was alluding to your obvious to me connection to 5.


oh, ok. :tongue:


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

narfae said:


> Also, I am way more compassionate toward animals than humans... like... in war movies or what have you, I don't bat an eye to people dying, but if it's a horse... I will be angry. Hahahahaha. Not sure that that is relevant at all, but when it comes to empathy and what have you... most of it is reserved for animals and I kind of have to make myself empathize with humans sometimes. Like, animals are innocent, humans bring a lot of things on themselves with wars and such.


I agree tenfold. The same happens to me. If I see animals or children suffering in a video or movie I will be angry or crying.. but other humans.. well most of them bring it on themselves. Which doesn't mean I cant be compassionate etc, but.. it's not the same inner volcano that happens when an animal or child is being hurt by an adult who doesn't need to be hurting them. >.< 

Do you watch Game of Thrones?


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## narfae (Feb 19, 2015)

Animal said:


> I agree tenfold. The same happens to me. If I see animals or children suffering in a video or movie I will be angry or crying.. but other humans.. well most of them bring it on themselves. Which doesn't mean I cant be compassionate etc, but.. it's not the same inner volcano that happens when an animal or child is being hurt by an adult who doesn't need to be hurting them. >.<
> 
> Do you watch Game of Thrones?


I do!  Not been crazy impressed with the last few episodes... but overall, it is epic.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Animal said:


> Not totally true. I mean it's true in the moment but I also am very self-absorbed. When I'm speaking to someone in that moment I feel their pain as my own like a mirror.... but then the minute I walk away I'm back to my own world...


yes, but you CAN feel other's pain. I cannot. I've infp's tell me I'm an emotionless wasteland as I dont' feel other people's feelings, and I know it. 
LOTS of NT's don't feel other's emotinos. This is a fundamental disconnect between NT's and NF's. NF's assume everyone can feel other people's emotions. NT's have no idea this can happen.

Part of being an Fi/N person is your core granite self where you feel other people's emotions, but you never lose YOU. Some very empathetic Fe/N users have troubles maintaining themselves.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

narfae said:


> I... don't, really. o.o It depends, though. Sometimes I can be so apathetic. Like, shit happens... this isn't going to shock or move me, type deal. At the same time... I am not a heartless creature, and I can even be very compassionate and internalize others' feelings. Depends on the person, the situation, etc., really. When I was a child, I was called insensitive a lot.... So... no set answer for this one. Though I may not start crying or what have you when someone is hurt, I am more likely than most to go out of my way/take action to help them?
> 
> I am 21.


waht do you want to do in life? Why?


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## avidity (Mar 26, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> the Sexual 4w3 is probably going to a somewhat more extroverted character, more theatrical and more of an elitist diva. the best way I can describe Sexual 4w5 would be "emo witch" (I realize this sounds very stereotypical lol), and they have a more dark, withdrawn energy which can be visibly more malicious.





nichya said:


> Could this be what a 4w5 looks to a 7? After all, we are pretty much everything you guys try to push deep down or is the lack of my Disney references failing me?


Funny. I think this is why I rub 7s and 7-wingers the wrong way constantly. It's as if my demeanor as a whole were some sort of affront to them personally. My lack of response to them or unexcitability gets interpreted as malintent. I guess bringing the mood down means I'm trying to bring them down? In reality, I'm stuck in self-consciousness most of the time and trying to get myself through a social situation without spazzing out or falling apart. And, typically if I'm in an environment that 7s thrive in, I'm struggling to retain the ability to hear my own thoughts. Nothing malicious about it, just self-preservational.


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## narfae (Feb 19, 2015)

drmiller100 said:


> waht do you want to do in life? Why?


Let's see... to have a home in the forest, learn to fight with a variety of weapons (axe, sword and bow), become super physically fit/strong again (once I am healthy enough to), travel, try lots of new foods, rehabilitate animals... those are the things foremost in my mind.  How about you? Haha.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

narfae said:


> Let's see... to have a home in the forest, learn to fight with a variety of weapons (axe, sword and bow), become super physically fit/strong again (once I am healthy enough to), travel, try lots of new foods, rehabilitate animals... those are the things foremost in my mind.  How about you? Haha.


I will finish building devices which will eliminate thousands of deaths a year due to dissentary, provide clean drinking water solutions for third world countries, and change the fuel people drive to work with every day.
I will have fun destroying assholes who beat women and kids, continue helping victims of domestic violence move to safer places, continue teaching people to feed themselves, and find more happiness and peace in my love life. 

Why? I do like the idea of cherishing the innocent and protecting them. I'm an entp, and like inventing useful stuff. 

FWIW, your post sounded to me like a 7/8. The variety, the fun, the cerebral part of understanding you. the thing which is puzzling is you SHOULD be disintegrated a bit due to current life isues, and I don't see many 1 traits.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

drmiller100 said:


> yes, but you CAN feel other's pain. I cannot.


Correction: I can't help BUT feel compassion. Although the degree of that depends on my mood and how self absorbed I am about my own things at that time.



> I've infp's tell me I'm an emotionless wasteland as I dont' feel other people's feelings, and I know it.
> LOTS of NT's don't feel other's emotinos. This is a fundamental disconnect between NT's and NF's. NF's assume everyone can feel other people's emotions. NT's have no idea this can happen.


Yeah. I've discussed this at length with an ENTP. It's a fundamental difference. My father is also a ENTP btw and we talk about all this stuff as well 



> Part of being an Fi/N person is your core granite self where you feel other people's emotions, but you never lose YOU.


I just have an incredibly strong grasp on my sense of self that proved nearly impossible to obliterate. Luckily I am someone who needs to hit rock bottom so I got to learn that I do have a limit. 



> Some very empathetic Fe/N users have troubles maintaining themselves.


Yeah. Or finding themselves in the first place :/


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