# Anyone else tired of this BDSM bullshit?



## LittleOrange (Feb 11, 2012)

It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


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## xisnotx (Mar 20, 2014)

Wait...I thought sex was a myth. Like Santa Claus, or the holocaust. You mean it happens in real life?

hmmm....

Maybe the reason I don't get sex is because I make holocaust jokes...I'm such a mess..

Edit;
Anyway...bad jokes aside..on the one hand, I don't do...umm...that type of sex, it's not for me. I kind of agree with you..but the way in which sex is treated in the modern world, in the West at least, is something I don't agree with often anyway. So, I'm not surprised that I don't agree.

On the other hand, I've put $2million towards the film's ultimate success on hsx. I bought low around the end of December and I'm about to sell high when the movie premiers. So, at least I'm making money off all y'all's sexual deviancy. Now, if I could only do that with the real thing...that'd be great..


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## Stendhal (May 31, 2014)

xisnotx said:


> Wait...I thought sex was a myth. Like Santa Claus, or the holocaust. You mean it happens in real life?
> 
> hmmm....
> 
> ...


I'm so glad I'm not the only one of this forum who understands the art of a good holocaust joke.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?



I totally get your drift and feel the same. 

The novelty is gagging. 

I don't mind the BDSM arena and all that but the over novelty and projecting so people can try and raise their freak odometer is just lame lame lame lame. 

Fuck I like to be choked at times but I don't need to go around yelling it at the world, "look at me I am a freak, see how freaky I like things" blah


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## Slagasauras (Jun 26, 2013)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


1) Fifty Shades of Grey is not BDSM. It's abuse.
2) I do not think BDSM twists the 'idea of sex'.
3) Biologically speaking, sex is just to reproduce.
4) Where exactly are you getting your definition of BDSM from? 
I'm woefully ignorant with BDSM since I've never been a part of it, but apparently fifty shades of grey has really ticked off the community who participates in it.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

I confess myself confused about where the "it's everywhere" statement is coming from. 

I am willing to bet that historically, it's nothing new and has been around in various forms for centuries. "It's everwhere" sounds like what a fundamentalist Christian would say in response to a bunch of gay people coming out of the closet.

I understand that people have different ideas of what sex is. What I don't understand is being bothered by what somebody else does in the bedroom. Can someone explain that to me?


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## LittleOrange (Feb 11, 2012)

BDSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well....BDSM is abuse to me.

It just seems like a trend nowadays in society (not everywhere, but still) to be loud, stupid and violent.

Also, there are so many people that just blindly follow anything media presents them. So, 50 Shades of Grey was on television,and now all the girls are "crazy" about it (no, they are not, they are just zombies who blindly follow trends)....I read now in the magazines "Lingerie inspired by 50 Shades of grey" etc etc....it´s like a plague.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

LostFavor said:


> I confess myself confused about where the "it's everywhere" statement is coming from.
> 
> I am willing to bet that historically, it's nothing new and has been around in various forms for centuries. "It's everwhere" sounds like what a fundamentalist Christian would say in response to a bunch of gay people coming out of the closet.
> 
> I understand that people have different ideas of what sex is. What I don't understand is being bothered by what somebody else does in the bedroom. Can someone explain that to me?


You can't see that it is a novelty and extreme trend at all right now (regardless that of course its been around for centuries). I don't think she is so much complaining what people do with themselves as more so the over glamorization and fad novelty with the 'freak' radar. 

I myself can't speak for her tho.

I just must say that I can say I have no problem with what others do. But its a bit annoying to have this silly trend blowing up pop culture. Regardless of what people do in their bedroom which is their business.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

LittleOrange said:


> BDSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Well....BDSM is abuse to me.
> 
> ...


Well, you've got it wrong.
BDSM is between consenting adults who trust each other, it's nothing like abuse. I haven't read 50 shades, but I've read people criticizing it and afaik it's about an abusive relationship with some BDSM elements. And how is BDSM stupid or loud? I suppose 50 shades may have made BDSM seem trendy, but people have been engaging in such sexual arrangements since forever.


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## Slagasauras (Jun 26, 2013)

LittleOrange said:


> BDSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Well....BDSM is abuse to me.
> 
> ...


And how do you define abuse? The legal definition of abuse as: "_Everything that is contrary to good order established by usage. Departure from reasonable use; immoderate or improper use. Physical or mentalmaltreatment. Misuse. Deception."
source : abuse legal definition of abuse

_Well if it truly is girls who are blindly following the media and buying paraphenalia related to fifty shades of grey, wouldn't they just be fans of fifty shades of grey?

I haven't read anything that says the author has even engaged in BDSM. I believe that authors need to observe/participate in things they aren't experienced in when writing things like that. I'm really hoping someone who's in the BDSM community or knows more about these kind of things comments on it.


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## Euclid (Mar 20, 2014)

It's totally twisted for sure. How is it that sadism is something that is never acceptable except in the bedroom? Doublethink.


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## Gossip Goat (Nov 19, 2013)

Nope, I don't pay attention to it. Perhaps the over-glamorization is annoying. But I can't say people are blindly following it since I'm not other people and that would be a hefty generalization (and if I did say it I would have to apply it to other things that have been blown up, all in accord to my perspective) and I can understand that sex for me may be gentle and loving but it doesn't have to be that way for other people.

That's just the consumer market, when something works/is popular everyone starts milking it to get their share of the profit.


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## LittleOrange (Feb 11, 2012)

I didn´t say BDSM was loud and stupid. I said it was generally a trend in society to be loud, stupid and violent. And BDSM is for sure violent, I don´t think you can disagree with that.

Ok.

Sex is ultimately supposed to be about love? (I know it´s not always, but ultimately it is.) How is beating someone with whips love? How is controlling or dominating over someone a sign of love and respect? How is being someone´s slave love or a sign of self respect and dignity? I mean, evan if it´s consenting it has nothing to do with love or respect. But it has a lot to do with this trend in the society to be aggressive, so sex is not about love anymore, it´s about dominance and power. Which is twisted.


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## Wonszu (Sep 25, 2013)

LittleOrange said:


> I didn´t say BDSM was loud and stupid. I said it was generally a trend in society to be loud, stupid and violent. And BDSM is for sure violent, I don´t think you can disagree with that.
> 
> Ok.
> 
> Sex is ultimately supposed to be about love? (I know it´s not always, but ultimately it is.) How is beating someone with whips love? How is controlling or dominating over someone a sign of love and respect? How is being someone´s slave love or a sign of self respect and dignity? I mean, evan if it´s consenting it has nothing to do with love or respect. But it has a lot to do with this trend in the society to be aggressive.


I'm not really knowledged about this topic but whole "being dominated" thing isn't one sided from what I know. It's not only for dominant person to dominate and feels good about it, it's also about the partner who feels good to be dominated. The trust comes from the fact that the dominant person is suppose to be sure not to cross the red line where the pain is not overly painful (it's suppose to be exciting pain) and be sure to not hurt dominated one for life. Dominated person on the other hand has to trust the partner that he/she will make sure that he/she will feel pleasure and not being afraid that somewhere along the line he/she will get killed.

There are different kinds of excitement that people feel and they likes different things. I still cannot understand balloon or foot fetishes - but this is something that people like and we can't do anything about it. 

In other words - as long as the dominated party is okey of being dominated and trusts the partner who is dominant - it's not an abuse. The abuse would start when the dominated partner would feel that things are getting out of hand, doesn't feel comfortable and doesn't like what is going on - then it is what we call an abuse. Dominant person crossed the line and doesn't stop - that's an abuse. Does that perpetually not caring for feelings of another person - that's an abuse.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Cinnamon83 said:


> You can't see that it is a novelty and extreme trend at all right now (regardless that of course its been around for centuries). I don't think she is so much complaining what people do with themselves as more so the over glamorization and fad novelty with the 'freak' radar.
> 
> I myself can't speak for her tho.
> 
> I just must say that I can say I have no problem with what others do. But its a bit annoying to have this silly trend blowing up pop culture. Regardless of what people do in their bedroom which is their business.


See, I can understand the frustration if it's becoming like the whole hipster thing or something.

But I'm not seeing where. I mean, like someone said in this thread, the BDSM community is apparently against 50 Shades because it distorts what BDSM is. 

If there is a trend of turning BDSM into some kind of freak novelty, then there is a silver lining: Those who understand the first thing about it can correct the people who think it's something else.

Speaking of...



LittleOrange said:


> Sex is ultimately supposed to be about love? (I know it´s not always, but ultimately it is.) How is beating someone with whips love? How is controlling or dominating over someone a sign of love and respect? How is being someone´s slave love or a sign of self respect and dignity? I mean, evan if it´s consenting it has nothing to do with love or respect. But it has a lot to do with this trend in the society to be aggressive.


I am not a part of the BDSM community, so don't take this as if I am some kind of speaker for them, but...

What's important here is that the act is between two consenting adults. In the case of a relationship, it's between two consenting adults who love and respect each other. Some people find the fantasy of being dominated - or of controlling another - to be pleasurable. Bringing pleasure to your partner, therefore, through that fantasy - why would that not be an act of love?

Keep in mind that healthy BDSM is not a twisted relationship of master and slave with no mutual respect or dignity. It is two people acting out a _fantasy_ and then resuming reality when it is over - nothing more. 

If a group of children play hockey, are we to say that they can't be bonding and enjoying themselves simply because the game involves physically and mentally dominating the opposition? Or how about "cops and robbers"? "Cowboys and indians"? 

Much like in any _fantasy_ - such as sports - healthy BDSM has rules that are set down before the game begins and they are supposed to be followed carefully throughout.

It's not supposed to be akin to one person beating another randomly in an alleyway. Shaky consent is not mutual exploration of a fantasy - it's law-breaking and amoral. But if consent is mutual, well... not all BDSM borders on the danger level, but some of it does.

And some people love extreme sports and doing daredevil stunts. Do I think it's dangerous for people to do daredevil stunts? Sure. But as long as they're consenting to it, who am I to tell them otherwise? Not all of us enjoy life in the same way - I'm sure you understand that. I've never understood the obsession with riding rollercoasters; the thrill is not worth it to me and I can get my thrills elsewhere.

But a lot of people love love love them, or theme parks would hardly be a thing. Some people are just wired differently than others. And not all "risks" are the same for everybody. What looks risky to one person might come naturally to another.


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

Some people have difference preferences than you when it comes to sex, what a surprise :shocked:
BDSM is not abuse because one of the lovers WILLINGLY submits. 
You have your own opinions about what sex and love are, clearly some people disagree with you .


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

@Wonszu and @LostFavor covered it well. I'm not part of the community either, I've just read enough out of curiosity. Also, sometimes I do enjoy a bit of pain - nerve signals get mixed up and pain becomes pleasure. A lot of people engage in mild BDSM acts without even knowing what it is, I suppose the most common is a woman being dominated by a man, letting him control her body, pin her down, etc and tying, blindfolding and spanking are also very common. But these are kinda vanilla.

Sex is different things to different people. For some, it's about love, for others it's more about pleasure and entertainment and love is not required. An example of this is professional BDSM, where you pay (usually a dominatrix) to engage in BDSM activities (not necessarily sex).


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

A lot of trust goes into BDSM because of the nature of it, I would argue those who are serious about BDSM are a lot better at respecting their partners boundaries and making sure they have consent than the general population who don't push to understand control of themselves, especially in regards to when they have power over another. 
The trust involved can be a degree of intimacy for a lot of couples as it requires a lot to make ones self so vulnerable to another.

Some people need to be careful of whom they pick to be their dommes as some are without respect for boundaries and lack of control of themselves and thus they make for dangerous candidates to be vulnerable with.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)




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## Cevian (Aug 27, 2012)

Like other posters said, _50 Shades_ is abusive and is not representative of BDSM practice. There's no planning and the male lead bases his actions on his own desires even if the protagonist objects and yada yada.

The actual practice involves informed consent and elaborate planning and making sure contingencies are accounted for.

I think your problem with it comes in because you have a universal idea of "what love is" and "what love isn't." Many people associate love with sex. Many people see sex as purely physical. Likewise, many people like BDSM for its intimacy and necessary trust, while others just enjoy the sensation. Also, not all BDSM involves sex.

If you don't like it, that's perfectly cool, but not everyone can fit the same ideals of love.

Grain of salt because I don't practice myself.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

Blessed Frozen Cells said:


> Equating sex and love is dangerous.


Go on... you've got my attention...


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

Yoohoo Larry said:


> Love is just a bunch of chemical reactions.


Yes, but so? Does that make it any less real or meaningful? I've never really understood why people say this like it's a bad thing.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

@devoid 
i'm curious, how much did you pay for the pro?


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## Everett (Feb 8, 2015)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


I don't think sex is "supposed" to be anything. I'm not into it myself but I don't think I'm tired of it most likely because it's not my thing. Why does it bother you? Should everyone have sex how you like it?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?














but yeah, some guys have asked me to slap them, pound the hell out of them or treat them like a child that needed to be punished. I'm like "uh...nooo. If we are going to have sex, I'm going to treat you like a prince, period!"


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## Slagasauras (Jun 26, 2013)

Fredward said:


> Yes, but so? Does that make it any less real or meaningful? I've never really understood why people say this like it's a bad thing.


Calm down there, little guy, it's a joke xD.


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## cannamella (Mar 25, 2014)

To be honest, I was simply curious when 50shades was out and decided to read erotica for the first time. Several months since then I read erotica once in a while but then got bored. It's all the same, like when I got bored reading fantasy when I was in high school and romance last year.


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Wow this thread is long so I'm just gonna answer OP: I never get tired of BDSM!


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

Yoohoo Larry said:


> Calm down there, little guy, it's a joke xD.


But love IS just a bunch of chemical reactions. Also I wasn't worked up.


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## Slagasauras (Jun 26, 2013)

Fredward said:


> But love IS just a bunch of chemical reactions. Also I wasn't worked up.


Cheeky...


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## Shahada (Apr 26, 2010)

Red Panda said:


> aggh that guy :blushed:


The idea of a "male dominant" as a kinky thing has always been weird/funny to me. "Yeah, I'm sort of kinky, I'm a man who likes to sexually dominate women. I also like boobs."


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Shahada said:


> The idea of a "male dominant" as a kinky thing has always been weird/funny to me. "Yeah, I'm sort of kinky, I'm a man who likes to sexually dominate women. I also like boobs."


I suppose it's the method that differs between "normal" men and these dominants. And I think most men who are not BDSM types may like mild domination but only during/involving sex, while the lifestyle doms like to do it even if there's no real sex involved, it's just as exciting or even more.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Red Panda said:


> @devoid
> i'm curious, how much did you pay for the pro?


By being a hot young thing.  He found me at a kink event and was rather infatuated. But we ended up going on a couple dates and I really didn't get along with him.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

devoid said:


> By being a hot young thing.  He found me at a kink event and was rather infatuated. But we ended up going on a couple dates and I really didn't get along with him.


awesome
now I need tickets to LA and a place to stay xDD


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

50 Shades might be the greatest non-issue to raise the most public/internet rage ever. People; we survived Twilight. This too shall pass. It's very easy to research BDSM if you think you might be into it. It shouldn't be too hard to notice that 50 shades isn't popular for its accurate portrayal. If you think every relationship in every movie/other piece of art needs to be a healthy, empowering one, you can avoid the movie and hundreds of other movies, some of them classics. If you are angry about something you don't agree with becoming a trend; I don't know what to tell you. It's going to happen often. 

I'll just grab more popcorn and sit back. It's nice to argue about something other than "isms" for a while.


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## LittleOrange (Feb 11, 2012)

I´m wondering....some mentioned here that some people have natural urges to inflict pain and enjoy inflicting pain. Isn´t it a definition of psychopathy? Not having empathy and enjoying inflicting pain? I wonder how many people who practice that have been been diagnosed with personality disorders....


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

LittleOrange said:


> I´m wondering....some mentioned here that some people have natural urges to inflict pain and enjoy inflicting pain. Isn´t it a definition of psychopathy? Not having empathy and enjoying inflicting pain? I wonder how many people who practice that have been been diagnosed with personality disorders....


It's hugely different inflicting pain on someone who wants it and to someone who doesn't. I suggest you watch the video posted previously.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

I've not read fifty shades of grey, nor seen the movie, nor do I even know if its out in theatres yet. Why are we even talking about it?

Some points:



Shahada said:


> The idea of a "male dominant" as a kinky thing has always been weird/funny to me. "Yeah, I'm sort of kinky, I'm a man who likes to sexually dominate women. I also like boobs."


That doesnt sound like a male dominant at all, much more like an immature teenager/college boy.



Red Panda said:


> I suppose it's the method that differs between "normal" men and these dominants. And I think most men who are not BDSM types may like mild domination but only during/involving sex, while the lifestyle doms like to do it even if there's no real sex involved, it's just as exciting or even more.
> 
> and damn, now I wish I was in LA so I could book a session with Master Eragon, he seems awesome.


I dont see a reason as to why "normal" men would enjoy dominating a woman during sex except that they're trying to reinact a badly done male fantasy from a porn film. I dont see anything "normal" about wanting to reinact what you see in pornography, being a dominant, however, male or female, is fine.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

LittleOrange said:


> I´m wondering....some mentioned here that some people have natural urges to inflict pain and enjoy inflicting pain. Isn´t it a definition of psychopathy? Not having empathy and enjoying inflicting pain? I wonder how many people who practice that have been been diagnosed with personality disorders....



You're ignoring the lack of empathy part. You can enjoy inflicting pain in specific contexts and still have empathy. 

For instance, have you ever squished a bug? Unfair example, but still. Played a violent videogame competitively, known people that did...?


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

I have nothing against BDSM. I dont know the context regarding fifty shades, since I dont know the scene in question, but from what I understand it gives a gross misrepresntation of BDSM, and the BDSM community is upset about it(understandeably). 

This is the problem with mass media and those who pay attention to it; worthwile things will be recuperated from worthwile sources by the mass media, only to be repackaged as something "new" "exciting", which the masses will interpret only in a superficial way, causing the original thing in question(in this case, BDSM) to be misunderstood, causing confusion, controversy, and idiocy.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Typhon said:


> I've not read fifty shades of grey, nor seen the movie, nor do I even know if its out in theatres yet. Why are we even talking about it?
> 
> 
> I dont see a reason as to why "normal" men would enjoy dominating a woman during sex except that they're trying to reinact a badly done male fantasy from a porn film. I dont see anything "normal" about wanting to reinact what you see in pornography, being a dominant, however, male or female, is fine.


I mostly talk about things like pinning the woman to the wall or a bit of controlling her body during sex, deciding positions etc, which could be very common in non-BDSM-y-dominant males. I think a lot of that is depicted in media like movies and such were the man is "oh so masculine" and initiates sex by pushing the woman to a wall and then throwing her on the bed and stuff.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Typhon said:


> I have nothing against BDSM. I dont know the context regarding fifty shades, since I dont know the scene in question, but from what I understand it gives a gross misrepresntation of BDSM, and the BDSM community is upset about it(understandeably).
> 
> This is the problem with mass media and those who pay attention to it; worthwile things will be recuperated from worthwile sources by the mass media, only to be repackaged as something "new" "exciting", which the masses will interpret only in a superficial way, causing the original thing in question(in this case, BDSM) to be misunderstood, causing confusion, controversy, and idiocy.


I haven't read the book either, only criticisms. As far as I've read, it's not that it depicts BDSM acts inaccurately, but rather goes beyond consensual into abuse territory, which of course is not what BDSM is. For example, I read that in one scene, Ana says the safeword, which means the dom has to dial back, and Gray doesn't, which means it's not consensual anymore.

Here's another funny and educational video by BuzzFeed xD


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> I mostly talk about things like pinning the woman to the wall or a bit of controlling her body during sex, deciding positions etc, which could be very common in non-BDSM-y-dominant males. I think a lot of that is depicted in media like movies and such were the man is "oh so masculine" and initiates sex by pushing the woman to a wall and then throwing her on the bed and stuff.


What distinction do you make between "non bdsm-y dominant males" and people who practice bdsm? Because if you tell me it the fact the latter wear leather, and the former do not, I would tell you your sexual nature is not determined by the clothes you wear. Yes, leather can be a fetish and is used in that context in the bdsm scene, but its just one fetish out of many.

What I think, however, regarding men who enjoy dominating women during sex but are not involved in the bdsm scene: either you are dominant and need to look into it further(you might enjoy it) or its not something you enjoy but just something you do to appear more manly in society's eyes, but since noone is usually watching you during sex, why care about it unless you're a porn star?


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Typhon said:


> What distinction do you make between "non bdsm-y dominant males" and people who practice bdsm? Because if you tell me it the fact the latter wear leather, and the former do not, I would tell you your sexual nature is not determined by the clothes you wear. Yes, leather can be a fetish and is used in that context in the bdsm scene, but its just one fetish out of many.
> 
> What I think, however, regarding men who enjoy dominating women during sex but are not involved in the bdsm scene: either you are dominant and need to look into it further(you might enjoy it) or its not something you enjoy but just something you do to appear more manly in society's eyes, but since noone is usually watching you during sex, why care about it unless you're a porn star?


I don't know how to explain where the line is drawn (and it's probably not a straight answer). I can only think from my own experiences. My ex for example who was not into anything kinky had a very hard time of being Dominant. He felt it was insulting to me or he didn't enjoy causing even little pain. He wasn't sub either so there was no confusion due to that. He exerted a sort of dominance that seemed to come more from him being male rather than being kinky. I don't know if that makes sense, it's hard to explain.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Personally I'm tired of people trying to tell others what sex should be like. It's not your business.


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## Scarab (Jun 14, 2014)

LittleOrange said:


> And BDSM is for sure violent, [...]



* *




The following statements does not necessarily reflect my own preferences.




One could have a dom & sub relationship that doesn't even include any violence (unless you think consensual penetration is an act of violence); then again, one could have such a relationship, but without sex involved. 

Anywho, to each their own, right? Some might enjoy submitting because it requires a hefty amount of trust -- I assume with my mighty deduction skillz -- and they get turned on by that.


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

LittleOrange said:


> Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


Sex is supposed to involve a pee pee, or a veejay, or a poopchute, or any number of these three involved with other things, such as fingers, toes, whips, chains, gear sticks and potentially even priests... but that wouldn't be _good sex_​ would it?


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> I don't know how to explain where the line is drawn (and it's probably not a straight answer). I can only think from my own experiences. My ex for example who was not into anything kinky had a very hard time of being Dominant. He felt it was insulting to me or he didn't enjoy causing even little pain. He wasn't sub either so there was no confusion due to that. He exerted a sort of dominance that seemed to come more from him being male rather than being kinky. I don't know if that makes sense, it's hard to explain.


Yeah, I dont really get what you're trying to say, lol. But no worries.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Typhon said:


> Yeah, I dont really get what you're trying to say, lol. But no worries.


Aw damn, sorry xD
Maybe this will be better: maybe it's sort of conditioned/socially influenced dominance, where you learn that you, as a man, are supposed to be the one who controls the situation during sex, so you do those little things to exert that dominance.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> Aw damn, sorry xD
> Maybe this will be better: maybe it's sort of conditioned/socially influenced dominance, where you learn that you, as a man, are supposed to be the one who controls the situation during sex, so you do those little things to exert that dominance.


Ok, that makes sense. I guess I'm not the type of guy who tries to be like "one of the boys", so the behavior is slightly foreign to me, but its clear what you meant.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Sex is just overplayed that's all.


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## Blessed Frozen Cells (Apr 3, 2013)

Typhon said:


> Yeah, I don't really get what you're trying to say, lol. But no worries.


I get what she means. My partner is sub but without realizing it he often shows his dominance that does not come from his kinky side but rather from his masculinity. This also debunks another misconception that male subs aren't masculine.

He's sub so he doesn't want to dominate but some things he says and do can be interpreted from my POV as dominance.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Blessed Frozen Cells said:


> I get what she means. My partner is sub but without realizing it he often shows his dominance that does not come from his kinky side but rather from his masculinity. This also debunks another misconception that male subs aren't masculine.
> 
> He's sub so he doesn't want to dominate but some things he says and do can be interpreted from my POV as dominance.



I am attracted to STRONG women who are dominant in their day to day lives.

Some like to be sub in the bedroom, some do not. Some like to give up control and power in the bedroom, some do not.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

Sex is supposed to be two things: fun and consensual. There's no need to project your personal preferences of the act onto the rest of society.

I definitely like SM, but in a strictly physical sense. I'm not into domating someone or being dominated, but I enjoy agression coming from both sides. Not into whips and toys, though, since to me they detract from the physical and spontaneous aspect of it. It's less personal to me and too calculated.

This has been an upward trends since long before the book or the movie, though. The book plays into the trend, it didn't start it. Women proudly professing how "submissive" they are in the sack and how they like to be "taken over" has been going on for a long time. If that's how most women like it, fine. But it seems to have turned into a trend and that being sub is a requirement that women have to live up to, which I'm not a fan of. And personally, like I mentioned before. I don't like submissive types, in real life OR in the sack. I find this whole sub/dom thing a false dichotomy.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Derange At 170 said:


> Sex is supposed to be two things: fun and consensual. There's no need to project your personal preferences of the act onto the rest of society.
> 
> I definitely like SM, but in a strictly physical sense. I'm not into domating someone or being dominated, but I enjoy agression coming from both sides. Not into whips and toys, though, since to me they detract from the physical and spontaneous aspect of it. It's less personal to me and too calculated.
> 
> This has been an upward trends since long before the book or the movie, though. The book plays into the trend, it didn't start it. Women proudly professing how "submissive" they are in the sack and how they like to be "taken over" has been going on for a long time. If that's how most women like it, fine. But it seems to have turned into a trend and that being sub is a requirement that women have to live up to, which I'm not a fan of. And personally, like I mentioned before. I don't like submissive types, in real life OR in the sack. *I find this whole sub/dom thing a false dichotomy.*


Some people are more strictly sub or Doms, but there are also "Switches" that enjoy both roles. I wouldn't say it's a dichotomy, more of a spectrum. For example you could have a switch that is into heavy submission but enjoys mild domination, but another one could prefer it in the opposite way.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> I wouldn't say it's a dichotomy, more of a spectrum.


Hence, why I think that it's a false dichotomy, since most people talk about it like you're either a sub or a dom. Or like you necessarily have to be on that spectrum. I'm neither sub nor dom and I my partners to be the same way. But there definitely people that _are_ on that spectrum, I'm not denying that. And yeah, whatever floats their boat.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Derange At 170 said:


> There's no need to project your personal preferences of the act onto the rest of society.
> 
> I find this whole sub/dom thing a false dichotomy.


Do you see the dichotomy in these two statements?

What is your logic process to resolve this in your mind?


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## George Jetson (Feb 14, 2015)

My take on this?

This is pathetic. The movie looks pathetic (Never watched it, never will). The book sounds pathetic (Never read it, never will). 

I honestly do not know why people are giving this too much attention. Waste of time....


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

drmiller100 said:


> Do you see the dichotomy in these two statements?
> 
> What is your logic process to resolve this in your mind?


I'm not projecting anything on anyone. I've stated my preferences, but I've also stated that for anyone to say that you can be only sub or dom is false.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Derange At 170 said:


> Hence, why I think that it's a false dichotomy, since most people talk about it like you're either a sub or a dom. Or like you necessarily have to be on that spectrum. I'm neither sub nor dom and I like my partners to be the same way. But there definitely people that _are_ on that spectrum, I'm not denying that. And yeah, whatever floats their boat.


I suppose if you are in the S/M part of BDSM it could be possible you have no preference or don't want Dom/sub roles, however I think there's always a little power exchange during sexual play, but I suppose it's not as evident or even important, as in people who identify with Dom/sub/Switch roles.


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## pixiepearl4 (Jan 16, 2015)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?



Well, everyone has their kinks.

Some people wanna be gentle and sweet. Some like it rough ^^

As long as it's consensual, I say have fun 😜


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## Morpheus83 (Oct 17, 2008)

Maybe the following article is a good warning for noobs who're starting to dabble in BDSM :tongue:

BBC News - Fifty Shades of Grey 999 call spike expected by London Fire Brigade


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

Now I know why I was really spanked as a child....


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

From what I understand about Fifty Shades of Gray (because I decline to touch it with a fifty foot pole), the male character sounds like a sociopath or a narcissist, so it's one of those sicko "it rubs the lotion into its skin" things turned into a romance, which is actually not BDSM, it's the idea of role playing serial killer/victim or something, or potentially glamororizing abuse...like BDSM communities actually warn subs and switches about encountering someone like the 50 Shades Man, as a responsible dom/me is loving and responsible.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

B3LIAL said:


> I have to disagree OP.
> 
> If you just called 50 shades of grey bullshit then fine, but some people are born with sadistic and/or masochistic urges and fantasies that they can't control, and it's much healthier to explore them with other consenting adults in dungeons or in weird porn then it is to try and repress it and let it hurt them or others.
> 
> ...


The problem with the guy in 50 Shades is that he's not authentically dominant but actually out of control. The dominant partner is supposed to be in control. Some one who doesn't respect boundaries or safe words isn't actually dominant, they are a weak person acting out rage.


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## B3LIAL (Dec 21, 2013)

Thalassa said:


> The problem with the guy in 50 Shades is that he's not authentically dominant but actually out of control. The dominant partner is supposed to be in control. Some one who doesn't respect boundaries or safe words isn't actually dominant, they are a weak person acting out rage.


Which is why we should be criticizing 50 shades, not BDSM. I was responding to the OP who was talking about "BDSM bullshit".

BDSM can be a controlled, but very sexy things for those who enjoy it.

50 shades = Retarded story for retards.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

bigstupidgrin said:


> 50 Shades might be the greatest non-issue to raise the most public/internet rage ever. People; we survived Twilight. This too shall pass. It's very easy to research BDSM if you think you might be into it. It shouldn't be too hard to notice that 50 shades isn't popular for its accurate portrayal. If you think every relationship in every movie/other piece of art needs to be a healthy, empowering one, you can avoid the movie and hundreds of other movies, some of them classics. If you are angry about something you don't agree with becoming a trend; I don't know what to tell you. It's going to happen often.
> 
> I'll just grab more popcorn and sit back. It's nice to argue about something other than "isms" for a while.


You have a very good point. Just like people blaming Eminem or MM for their child's behavior, or criticizing Lana del Rey for setting a bad example for young girls, people cannot blame 50 Shades of Gray resulting in 50 Shades of Domestic Violence irl. However recently I took a psychopath test for fun on line, and they actually found a correlation between psychopathic traits and a marked preference for rap music. Does this mean people mimic what they hear in rap music, or just that more people with low empathy are likely to prefer rap music in the first place. ...like not saying rap music causes anti social behavior, but that antisocial individuals are just more likely to prefer violent or misogynistic lyrics over more harmonious music?

Oscar Wilde and Lana del Rey are both happy to tell you that life imitates art...however people have free will, as well as a responsibility to protect and educate their children, so that artists are still allowed free expression of their ideas and experience. I firmly believe that the reason serial killers have diminished is not just because of increased technology, but because of less repression. Repression to a degree is a human necessity for civilization, but taken to Victorian extremes, and the creepy, pseudo happy world of 1950s popular culture, it just results in different kinds of baffling violent crime.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Derange At 170 said:


> I'm not projecting anything on anyone. I've stated my preferences, but I've also stated that for anyone to say that you can be only sub or dom is false.


I'd like to repeat back what I think you said in my own words.

Your point is some are saying you must be either dom. or sub. There is no other third choice, and you object to that. 

Is that your point? If so, I TOTALLY did not see that in your earlier posts, and I did not read anyone suggesting such a thing.

My take is a very few, small percentage, like sub or dom or identify with one of those. The VAST majority are "other", which some call vanilla. 

If I still don't understand your position, I am curious to learn more. Thank you.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


Speak for yourself.

BDSM to me IS LOVE.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

drmiller100 said:


> I'd like to repeat back what I think you said in my own words.
> 
> Your point is some are saying you must be either dom. or sub. There is no other third choice, and you object to that.
> 
> ...


I suppose we have different reference points, because male = "dom", female = "sub" is pretty much the mainstream view on sexuality, from what I've seen. And it has been for a long time, it's only recently that people actively refer to it as such and that women openly celebrate it. In that sense, I think the dynamic _is_ vanilla sex. Or it can be when it stays within the confines of what is considered "normal heterosexual behavior". What we call "BDSM" is really just on that spectrum of sexual behavior.

Looking at sex as neither "sub" or "dom", implicitly or explicitly, I think falls outside of the mainstrea sub/dom spectrum.


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

Thalassa said:


> From what I understand about Fifty Shades of Gray (because I decline to touch it with a fifty foot pole), the male character sounds like a sociopath or a narcissist, so it's one of those sicko "it rubs the lotion into its skin" things turned into a romance, which is actually not BDSM, it's the idea of role playing serial killer/victim or something, or potentially glamororizing abuse...like BDSM communities actually warn subs and switches about encountering someone like the 50 Shades Man, as a responsible dom/me is loving and responsible.
> 
> Responsible dom is responsible, not a big self centered two year old with a hard on.


Yeah. I haven't read the book or watched the movie. But from what I know about the male lead, I consider him a rather weak person. His _need_ to be in total control and him setting his eyes on a very insecure woman doesn't speak of a character who has his shit together. There's doms who enjoy being doms, then there's guys like him who feel they're inferior to the women they sleep with and need to create a fantasy where they aren't. But yeah, haven't watched/read anything so I might be wrong.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Derange At 170 said:


> I suppose we have different reference points, because male = "dom", female = "sub" is pretty much the mainstream view on sexuality, from what I've seen. And it has been for a long time, it's only recently that people actively refer to it as such and that women openly celebrate it. In that sense, I think the dynamic _is_ vanilla sex. Or it can be when it stays within the confines of what is considered "normal heterosexual behavior". What we call "BDSM" is really just on that spectrum of sexual behavior.
> 
> Looking at sex as neither "sub" or "dom", implicitly or explicitly, I think falls outside of the mainstrea sub/dom spectrum.


There is a LOT more to it than you know. Your assumptions and conclusions are pretty naive. 

I invite you to research. If you are curious, I'd be happy to answer questions if you have any.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

drmiller100 said:


> There is a LOT more to it than you know. Your assumptions and conclusions are pretty naive.
> 
> I invite you to research. If you are curious, I'd be happy to answer questions if you have any.



That's what I get from his posts too. The Dom/sub relationship in people who practice BDSM is different than the normal, vanilla "dom/sub" male/female relationship. Of course, you then have elements such as bondage, discipline, and S/M and of course you have women who like to be Doms and men who like to be subs. 
The power dynamic of a "vanilla" relationship many times has the man being a dom but also feeling superior in a way to the woman. This is not true in BDSM relationships. Also many times in vanilla relationships the power play is not conscious or willful exactly, it's not an agreement between people to play with that and have fun and sex, it's more of a struggle of who will impose their will.
Someone with more experience will be able to explain it better, perhaps.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Red Panda said:


> That's what I get from his posts too. The Dom/sub relationship in people who practice BDSM is different than the normal, vanilla "dom/sub" male/female relationship. Of course, you then have elements such as bondage, discipline, and S/M and of course you have women who like to be Doms and men who like to be subs.
> The power dynamic of a "vanilla" relationship many times has the man being a dom but also feeling superior in a way to the woman. This is not true in BDSM relationships. Also many times in vanilla relationships the power play is not conscious or willful exactly, it's not an agreement between people to play with that and have fun and sex, it's more of a struggle of who will impose their will.
> Someone with more experience will be able to explain it better, perhaps.


with dom/sub, neither is 'better' than the other. both are the best for each of them, like any healthy relationship. 

there are power issues in dom/sub, just like any relationship. in dom/sub it is more readily apparent, and addressed earlier in a committed relationship, but even then it takes a while to figure things out.

female Dommes report no shortage of submissive men available.


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## birdsintrees (Aug 20, 2012)

I haven't read through the entire thread. Nor have I read or watched 50 shades, listened to a bit of it as an audio book. One can only hear/read the word 'deliciuosly' so many times before vomiting is induced.

From what I've read and the articles about the story; the only thing that really concerns me about this hype is that a controlling and unhealthy relationship is being marketed as BDSM. Justifying stalking behaviour as a BDSM relationship is really very wrong. 

BDSM is a complex spectrum of sexual desires which has power dynamics and power exchanges at the core of it. There is nothing unhealthy about two (or more) consenting adults enjoying a relationship that falls within the BDSM spectrum.

Just because you give someone a safe word doesn't mean you're a dom. Just because you enjoy to be tied up, doesn't mean that you're a sub. 

So really, the only thing I'm tired of is something being marketed as BDSM when it's not even close to it.


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## Blessed Frozen Cells (Apr 3, 2013)

Switches have the most fun


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## Sadist (May 23, 2013)

Nah cause I was into it years before this 50 shades of grey shit.

and this...



Zoof said:


> *From what I've read and the articles about the story; the only thing that really concerns me about this hype is that a controlling and unhealthy relationship is being marketed as BDSM. Justifying stalking behaviour as a BDSM relationship is really very wrong*.......
> So really, the only thing I'm tired of is something being marketed as BDSM when it's not even close to it.




Literally took the words out of my mouth


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

When it comes to sex, EVERYONE wants to be cool. Like one thing I fucking hate is how full of themselves some people act because they enjoy X. Being someone thats into "kink" makes you so much cooler than the rest of us. The bar just keeps getting higher and higher and everyone is basically trying to one up each other. Also, most people are followers and bandwagoners. They want to be included in the newest trends and want to feel like they are up to date. That's another big reason why BDSM is getting big. And lastly the world has been slowly but surely slipping every so deeply into a pit of political correctness. Any and everything that was considered "fringe" is being overly promoted. Like BDSM was something that only a small amount of people were ever into, but not they are trying to sell it to the masses as something you're either into or you're a square. 

Don't worry. Hold your ground. This too will pass.

Trends change like you change underwear and pretty soon people will be off to the next thing.


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## lunagattina (Nov 7, 2014)

some sort of domination in sex can be nice for some people. 
Not agression. Are you kidding? real domination is NEVER about agression. NEVER.
Yes I know that it is the way that stupid book shows it, but it is all false. The BDSM described in 50 shades of gray is NOT BDSM. It is a problematic relationship between two people with a serious mental illness.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Lunagattina said:


> some sort of domination in sex can be nice for some people.
> Not agression. Are you kidding? real domination is NEVER about agression. NEVER.
> Yes I know that it is the way that stupid book shows it, but it is all false. The BDSM described in 50 shades of gray is NOT BDSM. It is a problematic relationship between two people with a serious mental illness.



This.

Truth.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

conscius said:


> WhateverLolaWants, you sound like you know your psychoanalytic stuff, any chance you studied psych in college?
> 
> \.


There is little chance of it. Any counselor would never make attributes such as her, and would understand the DSM in much greater detail.


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

Honestly, I don't think 50 Shades made that stuff trendy, it just rode the waves. The fact it's a "thing" makes it seem less appealing to me personally (that's usually how I am with trends.) But I don't know if it's as prevalent as it's made out to be. 



Red Panda said:


> Also, sometimes I do enjoy a bit of pain - nerve signals get mixed up and pain becomes pleasure. A lot of people engage in mild BDSM acts without even knowing what it is


I've said before that the most universal and socially acceptable form of masochism is eating spicy food. 

Why Do Humans Love Spicy Self-Torture?


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

ninjahitsawall said:


> Honestly, I don't think 50 Shades made that stuff trendy, it just rode the waves. The fact it's a "thing" makes it seem less appealing to me personally (that's usually how I am with trends.) But I don't know if it's as prevalent as it's made out to be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't offer good evidence towards this, but according to the TV show Good Eats, eating spicy food was an act of mate-attracting bravado. Sriracha ftw. 

As for BDSM, another thing to consider is that often people who are controlling in real life (CEO/management types) need to let that go; being a sub is a good place for that. Also being a dom is an incredible responsibility; quite a lot of nurturing sensibilities are required to do it right. 

As much as I think 50 shades' effect on society is overrated; it doesn't hurt to look BDSM up. Might be for you, might not. No biggie.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

WhateverLolaWants said:


> If you'd like to read about psychoanalytic theories on sadism and masochism in human sexuality or attachment trauma carried into adult romantic relationships and come to your own judgements on the subject, do so.
> 
> Your perception that I have an us/them mentality is an assumption. I also enjoy BDSM. I also indicated that almost all couples practice some form of it so I'd be amazed if I came across anyone over twenty-three who though it "alternative". Especially in such a sex saturated culture.
> 
> ...


I don't know if we differ at that, I don't have an opinion yet. Which are the extreme forms of BDSM? I can see your point though.
I think many relationships and people carry remnants of their childhood and relationship with parents and family, regardless of if they are BDSM or vanilla. For example, my parents always avoided displaying affection in front of us, perhaps they were embarrassed to and it made me feel awkward as well, but I could hear them sometimes have sex and I remember thinking that they are ashamed of it since they don't show affection in public. And that probably made me feel shame for my sexuality as well, but I can't blame them because they probably thought it was better to hide it.
My current therapist is a psychologist who specializes in the dynamics of family relationships and she has given me new perspective on some things for sure. But I think it's a big leap to say that all BDSM relationships are based on such dynamics.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

conscius said:


> Red Panda, thank you for sharing that confession, takes courage. It seems to me now that you arrived at that conclusion about liking BDSM through analysis and gaining clarity and I think personally that's all I hope anybody does (to gain self awareness and make sure they're not going into it for the wrong reasons, like to relive abuse and engage in unsafe practices) and to make sure they and their partners are safe and respectful of each other's wishes when they engage in BDSM (especially if it's more extreme kind). Thank you.


I did therapy for years for social anxiety and low self-esteem and while I improved significantly I was still missing a piece of the puzzle. Many happy coincidences (new therapist, this topic, the video etc) together and I reached understanding. If it was a year ago I might have brushed it off again, but now I was ready to receive the truth and accept it. It's not like I didn't know I was kinky, but I hadn't realised the extent or even embraced it, I did it with shame. It's like I had my sexuality locked in a boxed and I was just taking a peek sometimes, closing it in hurry again afterwards. I only wonder how many people are like that, regardless of BDSM or vanilla, because my society is still quite repressed sexually, especially those with parents at 60 years old+ like me.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

ninjahitsawall said:


> Honestly, I don't think 50 Shades made that stuff trendy, it just rode the waves. The fact it's a "thing" makes it seem less appealing to me personally (that's usually how I am with trends.) But I don't know if it's as prevalent as it's made out to be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My only hope is that 50 shades will help people experiment and discover themselves, even if it's a bad book. Even if it is the catalyst for making BDSM a topic for discussion much more openly than before, and videos like buzzfeed's to allow people to learn. 

When I eat spicy foods I definitely get into masochist mode xD but probably most people don't think of it like that, even if it's the truth.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

The general idea seems hot. I stumbled upon this person's erotic hypnosis on youtube. You can do all sorts of stuff on youtube. I've gone into psychedelic ego probing limitless areas of my mind, thanks to the endless supply of trip reports by people who have consumed mushrooms, LSD, MDMA. Youtube is an interesting place. Anyway, as might be expected, the person who posted the erotic hypnosis is a self employed mistress, and, dominatrix. And, I'll admit its fun. It's fun to be aroused by someone else. At the same time, BSDM and Femdom porn, it really does look like the submissive at times, is in pain, that I'm not sure I would want for myself. I don't mind being spanked. Clothes pin hangers attached to my penis, I'm going to hurt the person who tries that on me. I don't care if I'm going to get arrested, no one touches my guys that way. And its from that point, I can see where the OP is turned off by that sort of thing.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

No, but I'm definitely tired of all the whiners.


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## Sangmu (Feb 18, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> \. You don't get to say how I am wired. You don't get to say why I do what I do. You don't know me, you don't get to try to shame me.


I'm not going to tango with comments that rely solely on relativism and histrionism as arguments.


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## Sangmu (Feb 18, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> There is little chance of it. Any counselor would never make attributes such as her, and would understand the DSM in much greater detail.


The DSM is concerned with defining the vague and highly subjective term "mental disorders". I am well aware of it, it's current uses and the history of its compilation. 

Not what I am referring to.

I hope one day you are able or willing to read my posts in a calmer state and a more open mind. As I said, talking about the psychology motivations behind things is not equating it with _psychological_ _problems_.


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## dweeb (Feb 18, 2015)

how can you be tired of something you don't have to expose yourself to? if you are tired of it, you can choose not to partake in discussions or activities related to it. it is seriously that easy

but unrelated to you and your rant, people are blowing this 50 shades thing out of proportion. it raked in more dough than the harry potter series... in fact, isn't the author one of the highest earning authors of all time?

do you know who gave her all that money, people of the world? we did! and now it seems everyone and their mother (literally, because kinky suburban moms are/were the target audience) are against it. first people were excited about it, now they are woefully against it. is it really because of the film? or do people just lack the ability to think for themselves?


i avoid things i don't like and that's usually enough for me. everything i know about the 50 shades trilogy i came across purely by accident and, just as quickly as i came across it, i dismissed it and moved on. i don't really think there is a need to be angry over something so easily avoidable. sure, i acknowledge it from time to time (this thread, for example) but mostly just to tell people that it is not worth making a big deal out of.

some people are into BDSM and that is totally okay. it's better for these repressed desires to come forth in the bedroom than in public in more violent, detrimental ways. sex does not have to be loving and sweet and gentle and slow. sex can be dangerous and fast and ravenous and rich in unusual fetishes (and, in some cases, still loving). vanilla doesn't do it for everyone and as long as all parties involved have consented to it then i don't see a problem.

i think a big reason repressed desires exist in the first place is because of society's serial condemning of anything sexual. to be more particular, female sexuality. insecurities and shortcomings also play a pivotal role in the fetishes people develop as they get older.


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## lovachic (Nov 15, 2014)

Slagathor said:


> 1) Fifty Shades of Grey is not BDSM. It's abuse.
> 2) I do not think BDSM twists the 'idea of sex'.
> 3) Biologically speaking, sex is just to reproduce.
> 4) Where exactly are you getting your definition of BDSM from?
> I'm woefully ignorant with BDSM since I've never been a part of it, but apparently fifty shades of grey has really ticked off the community who participates in it.


I agree with you completely. Also, I think that sex is completely subjective, and if you think that sex should be gentle, sensual, and playful, then that's just your opinion. Fifty shades of grey is abuse but BDSM doesn't have to be. All parties involved in it can enjoy it if that's what they're into. But, then again, my closest experience with BDSM was through a Sterek fanfiction (in which both parties involved enjoyed it and there was no sexual assault or abuse involved).


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

WhateverLolaWants said:


> I'm not going to tango with comments that rely solely on relativism and histrionism as arguments.


if both of us do it, it makes for a boring conversation doesn't it.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

New review, from a porn star. She hates the movie:

An Ex-Porn Star Blasts ‘Fifty Shades of Grey’: ‘A One-Dimensional Peek at Kink’ - The Daily Beast


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

I think BDSM is a symptom of a societal issue, to be honest. I don't believe it is "healthy", for lack of a better word, no matter who is consenting. Not that I am claiming everyone who engages in BDSM is mentally ill, far from it, but I do think they have some underlying issues that are being expressed through the desire for power play in the form of BDSM. BDSM is very psychological. 

So yeah, to me, it's existence is a negative thing overall. Insofar as it is demonstrative of a deeper problem in society. It may not be actually harmful to the individual, but it's presence in culture is indicative of some kind of imbalance.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

Red Panda said:


> I did therapy for years for social anxiety and low self-esteem and while I improved significantly I was still missing a piece of the puzzle. Many happy coincidences (new therapist, this topic, the video etc) together and I reached understanding. If it was a year ago I might have brushed it off again, but now I was ready to receive the truth and accept it. It's not like I didn't know I was kinky, but I hadn't realised the extent or even embraced it, I did it with shame. It's like I had my sexuality locked in a boxed and I was just taking a peek sometimes, closing it in hurry again afterwards. I only wonder how many people are like that, regardless of BDSM or vanilla, because my society is still quite repressed sexually, especially those with parents at 60 years old+ like me.


Oh I think there are a large number of people in that situation. Sometimes it can be homosexuality, gender issues, or more "deviant" sexual interests, but whether you live in a family or culture or religion that sees some of those aspects as very shameful or taboo, the very things that are ignored or pushed out the mind, can be very things behind much stress and anxiety that comes out in other ways.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

BlackDog said:


> I think BDSM is a symptom of a societal issue, to be honest. I don't believe it is "healthy", for lack of a better word, no matter who is consenting. Not that I am claiming everyone who engages in BDSM is mentally ill, far from it, but I do think they have some underlying issues that are being expressed through the desire for power play in the form of BDSM. BDSM is very psychological.
> 
> So yeah, to me, it's existence is a negative thing overall. Insofar as it is demonstrative of a deeper problem in society. It may not be actually harmful to the individual, but it's presence in culture is indicative of some kind of imbalance.


That's an interesting view, seeing it more of a socio-pathology than psychopathology, as an issue in society that necessitates individualized reaction either to counter the societal malady or perhaps to express it. Or perhaps I read you wrong.

But if my reading is correct, should we not expect there to be more BDSM stuff in troublesome societies, than US (unless you're not talking about freedom and rights and democracy, in which US is better than many countries, but some other issues).


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

conscius said:


> That's an interesting view, seeing it more of a socio-pathology than psychopathology, as an issue in society that necessitates individualized reaction either to counter the societal malady or perhaps to express it. Or perhaps I read you wrong.
> 
> But if my reading is correct, should we not expect there to be more BDSM stuff in troublesome societies, than US (unless you're not talking about freedom and rights and democracy, in which US is better than many countries, but some other issues).


You read me correctly for the most part. I think its a social/cultural imbalance that inevitably breeds imbalance in the individual, as a product of such a society. So the individual may experience an imbalance, it is because there exists an imbalance in the culture _first_. And yes, individuals make up society, so it is difficult to decide which comes first, but I think a gradual progression towards a cultural imbalance is possible if the culture/society begins to value some traits over others, as a collective. 

I don't think freedom, rights, and democracy really have anything to do with it. That sort of assumes in the first place that democracy is empowering and desirable. I see this rooted more in social aspects, rather than political. In how we relate to one another, and the complexities of our interpersonal relationships. A power imbalance at this level, culturally, would presumably result in unbalanced individuals who seek to restore balance through power play. At least in my opinion.


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## LittleOrange (Feb 11, 2012)

The guy I´m dating now has told me that he has once been in a BDSM club and he was explaining to me how some men who are, for example, very powerful and in a very responsible positions (like managers of big coorporations) like to engage in BDSM activities, particularly as subs, because they feel guilty for their power and want to be punished to release that guilt. That´s weird. Why don´t they just give up on their position if they feel so guilty?


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

LittleOrange said:


> The guy I´m dating now has told me that he has once been in a BDSM club and he was explaining to me how some men who are, for example, very powerful and in a very responsible positions (like managers of big coorporations) like to engage in BDSM activities, particularly as subs, because they feel guilty for their power and want to be punished to release that guilt. That´s weird. Why don´t they just give up on their position if they feel so guilty?


I think it might have a lot to do with how much we value masculinity in our culture, and devalue femininity. Someone who is powerful, competitive, ambitious, confident, logical, unemotional, etc. is very good for capitalist culture. That sort of thinking maximizes profits, and someone who embodies these characteristics may be well rewarded for them. Someone who develops or accentuates their masculine side and neglects their feminine side will be unbalanced. Since the extreme (stereotypical) form of femininity, at least psychologically, is submission, it makes sense that someone who is severely lacking in one vital aspect of their being would seek to mediate that imbalance through something like BDSM.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

BlackDog said:


> I don't think freedom, rights, and democracy really have anything to do with it. That sort of assumes in the first place that democracy is empowering and desirable. I see this rooted more in social aspects, rather than political. In how we relate to one another, and the complexities of our interpersonal relationships. A power imbalance at this level, culturally, would presumably result in unbalanced individuals who seek to restore balance through power play. At least in my opinion.


But anything specific? In other words, how do you think people should relate. If it's not about politics, and only the social aspects, what specifically is wrong?

Unfortunately sex related issues are terribly difficult to study, in US but especially in other countries (aside from Europe). It would be great if we had BDSM stats and could compare countries or regions or whatever. So if your view was that, say, the more patriarchal societies are more likely to have BDSM practices, and we could verify that by data, that would be great. 

Intuitively I don't think that's true though. I don't see BDSM as a societal problem. 

I'm talking about BDSM (blindfold, tying someone up, spanking, etc, not more extreme versions - like choking someone to near death - where physical and psychological trauma are a real concern) between empowered loving couples who respect each other and engage in it to gain more pleasure and widen their sexual horizons, as others engage in other practices with toys and so forth. I'm not talking about sexual abuse re-experienced or relabeled BDSM. BDSM is not a therapy for childhood sex abuse. That can retraumatize someone.

In my view, BDSM is more talked about in US and European countries because of the freedoms and rights that we do have. It's more out in the open (relatively speaking). Given that self-pleasure is not seen as something shameful or taboo (again, relatively speaking), people engage in games and activities solely for purpose of increasing pleasure, to "spice up" their sex life. In certain countries, it's even shameful to admit you have a "sex life." Sex is for procreation, women are not supposed to enjoy sex, and both men and women are shamed for thinking anything else. 

In those societies, control of sex and pleasure through shame is a way of controlling people. In more democratic and free countries, not to mention individualistic, those kinds of controls are no longer necessary. These countries are not "better" than other ones. They've just found other ways of controlling people and keeping order. One way is by allowing people to enjoy life and be who they are, at least in privacy of their homes. It is assumed that then people are more likely to be productive members of society. 

So if through analysis and personal experiences, you've come to realize you're gay, then you can be gay. Trans, you can be trans. Interest in fetishes, toys, BDSM, to get pleasure, then you can. If you're free to do or be, the thinking goes, you're more likely to be a better citizen.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

conscius said:


> But anything specific? In other words, how do you think people should relate. If it's not about politics, and only the social aspects, what specifically is wrong?
> 
> Unfortunately sex related issues are terribly difficult to study, in US but especially in other countries (aside from Europe). It would be great if we had BDSM stats and could compare countries or regions or whatever. So if your view was that, say, the more patriarchal societies are more likely to have BDSM practices, and we could verify that by data, that would be great.
> 
> ...


I certainly can't tell you I know any of this for certain, it's just the way I see it. BDSM, even sex in general, is very psychological. I do not believe it is a coincidence that so many powerful men are drawn to BDSM, seeking sexual domination. It's folk wisdom that someone who is submissive in life is more likely to be dominant in the bedroom, and vice versa. The bedroom is a stage where our repressed desires play themselves out. I am not saying BDSM is "bad", in that its something that should be outlawed or one should be ashamed of it. I am saying it's bad in the sense that it would ideally not be required at all. 

I think our culture, in the west, is extremely unbalanced. It's possible that patriarchal societies are to blame, but that would be difficult to prove because there do not exist any truly matriarchal societies that I am aware of, in modern times. There are a handful that are close, but the vast majority are patriarchal. A matriarchal society that praised and promoted feminine attributes and devalued masculine attributes would be unbalanced as well. It's not like the patriarchy is inherently any worse than a matriarchy. I am just saying that in our culture, we have decided that stereotypically masculine traits are good, and most feminine traits are bad and undesirable. This creates imbalance in the individual, and affects the power dynamics in interpersonal relationships. 

So, someone who embodies masculinity - think a man in power, wealthy, logical, ambitious - may be neglecting to develop his feminine side. If the extreme, albeit somewhat stereotypical, form of femininity is submission, then it is not a stretch to think that a man who is lacking in feminine energy would want to embody this role. He would want to be dominated. It goes the same the other way, as well. Most sex, and most of our relationships in general, have a less exaggerated form of power play than BDSM. It's not like those who like BDSM are the only ones who are affected by this imbalance, but I do think that BDSM is a more extreme _expression_​ of this desire for balance and harmony.


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## conscius (Apr 20, 2010)

BlackDog, very interesting, I came at it from a different angle but I think I see your approach now and how you see it. It's almost related to Jungian or some Eastern religious and cultural views of being whole, of balance and harmony of female and male attributes. I know very little about Jung or concept of balancing masculine and feminine sides, but I like to explore that angle when time permits....


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

BlackDog said:


> I think BDSM is a symptom of a societal issue, to be honest. I don't believe it is "healthy", for lack of a better word, no matter who is consenting. Not that I am claiming everyone who engages in BDSM is mentally ill, far from it, but I do think they have some underlying issues that are being expressed through the desire for power play in the form of BDSM. BDSM is very psychological.
> 
> So yeah, to me, it's existence is a negative thing overall. Insofar as it is demonstrative of a deeper problem in society. It may not be actually harmful to the individual, but it's presence in culture is indicative of some kind of imbalance.


I understand how this can be the case for men who are in powerful positions that perhaps extend the real human capabilities and add tremendous stress that cannot otherwise be released. But for example I can't see why it would be the case with me, that I've expressed such kind of kinkiness from the age of 7. I don't think it's much different from homosexuality in that regard, it's something you like to do from a very young age, (i'm bi as well) that comes naturally and innocently to you (before it's tainted by prejudice and shame from the rest of society). 
I've watched a few small documentaries on youtube, where they interview dominatrixes and for example they say some clients have wanted to have their penises cut off and stuff. That's obviously not healthy and for sure you can find people who have serious psychological issues.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Gentle sex is boring and doesn't get me off, but 20 minutes of rough sex gets me off two to three times. I hate gentle lovemaking. That said, rough sex is not the same as BDSM. I'm not into BDSM, but I'm most assuredly not into gentle sex.


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## Lesuhlee (Feb 14, 2015)

koalaroo said:


> gentle sex is boring and doesn't get me off, but 20 minutes of rough sex gets me off two to three times. I hate gentle lovemaking. That said, rough sex is not the same as bdsm. I'm not into bdsm, but i'm most assuredly not into gentle sex.


ditto


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

I don't see gentle sex as particularly "passionate", which is why I enjoy rough sex (not BDSM) more. It feels more visceral and passionate, and the only times I've really had orgasms from sex are when my partner was rough and going hard. The combination of pleasure and pain keeps me centered in the moment, focused on my body and my partner's body and our mutual pleasure, whereas gentler sex has my mind wandering. Gentle sex? Wake me up when you're done so I can go clean up. But, again, enjoying pain with your pleasure is not the same as participating in BDSM.


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## Lesuhlee (Feb 14, 2015)

I don't orgsasm with mediocre sex. 

However the best sex of my life: a week long Vaca with a chick I was dating who was a fellow ENTJ. We had copious sex, all over. Wherever. Halftime during football in the living room. Every night. Every morning when we woke up. Great, intense sex.

However, the best sex of my life ever was not that rough it was the element of spontaneity + power. Power fueled spontaneity.

She was driving me to the airport to catch my flight back home half a nation away; I had to be at work first thing the next morning. She had to be at work the next morning as well. 

She dials her secretary through her car, and orders her helicopter detail for her for tomorrow, and while she's managing her chopper logistics, reaches over with one hand and covers my mouth to signal me to keep quiet. She then reaches said Hand up my dress and motions for me to let my seat back.

You can assume what unfolded next...
#FiftyShadesofRainbowLesbianSex


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## Skund (Mar 1, 2011)

It's about, trust, caring, intense feelings, pleasure. 
Normally you don't play with someone you don' trust. You have to respect the limits and its consensual

When you don't know anything about BDSM don't judge the people.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> I understand how this can be the case for men who are in powerful positions that perhaps extend the real human capabilities and add tremendous stress that cannot otherwise be released. But for example I can't see why it would be the case with me, that I've expressed such kind of kinkiness from the age of 7. I don't think it's much different from homosexuality in that regard, it's something you like to do from a very young age, (i'm bi as well) that comes naturally and innocently to you (before it's tainted by prejudice and shame from the rest of society).
> I've watched a few small documentaries on youtube, where they interview dominatrixes and for example they say some clients have wanted to have their penises cut off and stuff. That's obviously not healthy and for sure you can find people who have serious psychological issues.


I don't know what you mean by 'kinkiness' in this context, so I can't really comment on that specifically. I don't think that BDSM is something that is inherent in you, I think it is something that expresses itself as a result of environmental and developmental factors.


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## Sygma (Dec 19, 2014)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


Yeah the first lady that told me that she liked the whip and kinky shit and havin her own wet pants in her mouth to be turned on to the maximum freaked the shit out of me. THEN AGAIN IM INNOCENT.

Which is slightly funny for a frenchie I know :>


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

BlackDog said:


> I don't know what you mean by 'kinkiness' in this context, so I can't really comment on that specifically. I don't think that BDSM is something that is inherent in you, I think it is something that expresses itself as a result of environmental and developmental factors.



It's hard to describe I guess. I was very into tying people when I was little, I loved how the rope/whateverIused looked on my friend's skin and how she was mine to do as I please (which wasn't that much back then xD). I don't know if it's entirely nurture, but I don't disagree necessarily. I did have a father who liked to control everything in his life, but I also always felt I clashed with him, like trying to challenge him many times. It was more a male thing than D/s though, and I hated gender roles since I was little.


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

um... 50 Shades technically isn't BDSM but


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## Lady Isla (Feb 20, 2015)

Hollywood up to its usual tricks. To start with I'm sick of hearing about this movie based on a book by the woman who invented sparkly vampires. I have no idea who the male lead is and the female lead is a poor man's Zooey Deschanel who got the part because of whose daughter she is.

As for the content in the movie, from what I've read about it displays what I would definitely consider a toxic relationship. I think there is a big difference between adding some spice to the bedroom and having an entire relationship based on one person being a slave to the other. I can't imagine any version of that where both people are emotionally healthy.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


Like anything else that has been waiting in the wings, that hidden part of humanity longs for overt expression. And like any other consumer of various aspects of the human experience you simultaneously CAN choose to avoid it AND MUST now do so to escape it because of its being out and in the open. 

This is the price of allowing all of human experience and desire and dreams, etc. to be out in the open. You will be exposed to it. Some folks will see it and immediately say within themselves, YES, that is what I have always wanted. Other people want that also! I must be (fairly) normal. Others see it and want to unsee it or are tired of its display. 

The issue becomes are you willing to suffer having to make and follow through with your choice for personal censorship in order for others to swim in the waters they do enjoy? It is not a simple question to answer. If you exclude certain otherwise neutral viewpoints (meaning they are not purely anti-wise) then you run the risk of having your preferred ones excluded when others come into power. For that reason I think exposure and de-secreting almost all things is the way to go.

Although, in the case of a lot of the BDSM put out there I agree with you entirely. Why?

Because indulging in mock sadistic and masochistic play is one thing, but, the majority of these portrayals do not present the activity in that context, but rather in its debilitating context as a way to satisfy their inner demons. That is not wise.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Lady Isla said:


> As for the content in the movie, from what I've read about it displays what I would definitely consider .


an opinion without experience or facts. at what point does opinion turn to drivel?

Yawn.


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## Lady Isla (Feb 20, 2015)

drmiller100 said:


> an opinion without experience or facts. at what point does opinion turn to drivel?
> 
> Yawn.


Awesome sauce, my first ignore. Let's break out the champagne.


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## IIIIII (Oct 2, 2013)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


I'm not a pro, but it is really not as bad as you think it is, and I really think that you could work the gentle sex in to your play or your scene if thats your fantasy and what turns you on. BDSM does not have to be all about blood and guts or being a pain pig as someone I used to associate with called it. There is a sensual side to BDSM and kink culture, which is the problem with things like 50 Shades being that it takes one aspect of it that is bad, and makes it look like it is the be all and end all way that BDSM is. I assure you that it does not all ways go down this way. You should take a look at some of things like Shibari as an example, the knot tying is very intricate and foreplay wise is kinda awesome, I know a lot of women complain about lack of foreplay, however could you imagine your S/O paying that much attention to your wants and needs prior to the main event?

50 Shades is about making a Hollywood director money, IMHO it has nothing to do with real kink, my recommendation, hang out with some people that are into the Scene and get a look at how it really works. It used to be a turn off for me , because of all the things that I saw on TV and in the movies. Quite an eyeopener, when you experience it first hand, it was the complete opposite.

Also if i'm correct (kinksters feel free to comment) a lot of the things that are done in the movie and the book constitute a breech of protocol, and would get you tore a new one in a club or on the scene period.


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## IIIIII (Oct 2, 2013)

IIIIII said:


> I'm not a pro, but it is really not as bad as you think it is, and I really think that you could work the gentle sex in to your play or your scene if thats your fantasy and what turns you on. BDSM does not have to be all about blood and guts or being a pain pig as someone I used to associate with called it. There is a sensual side to BDSM and kink culture, which is the problem with things like 50 Shades being that it takes one aspect of it that is bad, and makes it look like it is the be all and end all way that BDSM is. I assure you that it does not all ways go down this way. You should take a look at some of things like Shibari as an example, the knot tying is very intricate and foreplay wise is kinda awesome, I know a lot of women complain about lack of foreplay, however could you imagine your S/O paying that much attention to your wants and needs prior to the main event?
> 
> 50 Shades is about making a Hollywood director money, IMHO it has nothing to do with real kink, my recommendation, hang out with some people that are into the Scene and get a look at how it really works. It used to be a turn off for me , because of all the things that I saw on TV and in the movies. Quite an eyeopener, when you experience it first hand, it was the complete opposite.
> 
> Also if i'm correct (kinksters feel free to comment) a lot of the things that are done in the movie and the book constitute a breech of protocol, and would get you tore a new one in a club or on the scene period.



Oh and it's really all about what the Sub wants, even though the Top may be the one performing the act, the Bottom or Submissive is still in control, a good Top understands their Bottoms wants, needs, and safety. IMHO this is job one for a Top!


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

LittleOrange said:


> It all started with 50 shades of grey and now it´s everyhere!! Does anyone else thinks it completely twists the idea of sex?? Sex is supposed to be a gentle, sensual, playful act, where you share love, pleasure and fun, and with this it turns into domination, pain, aggression?? WTF?


Who made that up? I completely disagree with that. Sex is not about play or fun. It is very much on order of animalistic desire nothing else.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> I suspect that domination/sadism is somehow tied to having 8 or 7 in tritype.


I don't believe in tri type, but I do believe most Dom's are 8's. I'd believe 7's are also highly represented, and probably 6's.


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## Fredward (Sep 21, 2013)

I think part of the reason everyone is so tired of BDSM is because they literally got the entire idea of what is should and does entail from 50 Shades. It's like watching Grey's Anatomy and feeling like you now have an informed opinion about what being a doctor would be like.


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## ficsci (May 4, 2011)

I thought 50 Shades of Grey is BDSM for n00bs anyway

The BDSM community right now must be feeling what INFPs felt when emo became a huge thing


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