# Lesson #1: Do not be friendly.



## MyName (Oct 23, 2009)

star tripper said:


> I've constantly heard the cliche that women love assholes but literally all the assholes I know are single.\


I'm not in agreeance with the OP, but if women never dated assholes there wouldn't be so much complaining from women about how the men they date are acting like assholes. 

Funnily/sadly one girl I knew who was especially vocal about the "women actually _never_ date assholes" thing dated a guy for a long time who put her on a diet and told her she was fat (she wasn't at all by the way) and what to eat and not eat right in front of people. Sounds like an asshole to me.

When people react against stuff like the OP by saying that women never date jerks/jerks are always single they're implying that women have perfect moral barometers and never misjudge anyone. It also helps create the attitudes seen in the OP by implying that if you don't have a girlfriend it's because of a personal failing you have or that there aren't lots of perfectly great men who haven't had good luck in love.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Sub_Atomic said:


> Don't be too friendly, don't be an asshole.


Yeah, be chill, fun; I've always been drawn the most to people who genuinely enjoy their own company; after all, if you don't value your company; who else will?


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

MyName said:


> I'm not in agreeance with the OP, but if women never dated assholes there wouldn't be so much complaining from women about how the men they date are acting like assholes.
> 
> Funnily/sadly one girl I knew who was especially vocal about the "women actually _never_ date assholes" thing dated a guy for a long time who put her on a diet and told her she was fat (she wasn't at all by the way) and what to eat and not eat right in front of people. Sounds like an asshole to me.
> 
> When people react against stuff like the OP by saying that women never date jerks/jerks are always single they're implying that women have perfect moral barometers and never misjudge anyone. It also helps create the attitudes seen in the OP by implying that if you don't have a girlfriend it's because of a personal failing you have or that there aren't lots of perfectly great men who haven't had good luck in love.



I didn't mean to imply it doesn't happen (and even later mentioned that nice guys going after unhealthy girls parallels unhealthy girls going after bad boys). People just don't qualify the cliche. They say "girls want bad boys" as though that's the general trend of attraction for women.

There's always a qualifier when it comes to an unhealthy individual. Women who like older men are presumed to have "daddy issues." Their taste is not considered the general trend of attraction for women.

Being into jerks is a common abnormality, not a norm. The OP (and other nice guys) presumes otherwise and that makes me think they gravitate toward these women or their own insecurities are distorting reality.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

Perhap(s) you simply dried up her pussy — (and it does not lie within _something deep_); my natural vaginal lubricant dried up around pages (1-3). You have also managed to dry up quite a few pussie(s) here + offline localities; now we must examine that.

Why are you drying up multiple pussies .. (?) I consider post (Post #1), something a "azzhole" (Nice guy + asshole are not mutually exclusive) would assert and I would say in spite of being an "azzhole" it has still managed to dried up vagina(s). Clearly, "azzhole" is not the way — unless you are looking for floozies; to which, does not require assholism — just a sufficiently low IQ. If can still not nail a floozy down at *Trader Hoes*™ (these are pseudo-mistresses do not serve them); then we must _examine _that, as well.

Here is my female humanoid opinion as to why (Post #1) has dried up sufficient amount(s) of vaginal lubricant — perhaps because it feel(s) like I could crush your hope(s) (&) dreams; (&) send you into a frenzy of self-hate; you allow too much control without consent (&) I can sense your strong desire to submit to the female.

However; you serve without consent — you must request submission before consent; as all "nice guys". The failure is serving the mistress without her approval — if you wish to submit; that is fine — however, you must learn the rope(s).

Do not submit / serve to the mistress before her approval; only then can she reward you. No acknowledgment of your servitude; you receive no reward. You have done no work. Your second mistake is "improving yourself" for multiple (possible) mistresses; (&) not your one woman. Find + learn your mistress (&) then impress her; instead — not multiple mistresses. Some mistresses relish in pig-sluts, brats, sissy boys; pets, regular men or 'alpha' males. Your mistress could also be (5) differential varieties. Mistresses are not interested in high-functioning "disloyal mistress hoppers", how can you serve your mistress loyally if you desire to serve many .. (?) 

MGTOW's have low-functioning genetic material (e.g., narcissism / psychological malfunction(s) / physical defects) — I would not request you "tap-out" just yet (as you seem to have good enough working gene(s))™ physically. However, if you continue to deplete your psychological health your gene(s) will weaken (&) then you will be forced to quit (MGTOW'ism / Red pillian) or be expelled from the gene pool + kicked out of the game completely. If you are not expelled; you will only be eligible to reproduce with low-functioning female-humanoid(s) with terrible genes, as well. (e.g., floozys). It seem(s) you have been sent to the _principle's office _with a *warning*. Due to the female(s) genetic fitness + mating control - a male expelled from the game is terminated completely; or sent to the dungeon. Get it together.

The "game" is for hard player(s); not forfeits. Build up your armor, sonny (&) protect your genes. It's going to get worse. ((Do not make me come back here; sonny)). 



MyName said:


> I'm not in agreeance with the OP, but if women never dated assholes there wouldn't be so much complaining from women about how the men they date are acting like assholes.
> 
> Funnily/sadly one girl I knew who was especially vocal about the "women actually _never_ date assholes" thing dated a guy for a long time who put her on a diet and told her she was fat (she wasn't at all by the way) and what to eat and not eat right in front of people. Sounds like an asshole to me.
> 
> When people react against stuff like the OP by saying that women never date jerks/jerks are always single they're implying that women have perfect moral barometers and never misjudge anyone. It also helps create the attitudes seen in the OP by implying that if you don't have a girlfriend it's because of a personal failing you have or that there aren't lots of perfectly great men who haven't had good luck in love.


I take it you have not found your mistress yet; hang in there, Name.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

on the one hand i can see what you're getting at, but i still think it's half the picture. 

others have said that she doesn't speak for all people, but at the same time, what you're hinting is a large swath of the pie. that is how a lot of people function, regardless of their age: it's playing into the idea of 'raised value'. if you make yourself available, you have just lowered your value... in some people's, or in a majority of peoples' eyes. 

but even if you try this with a girl who isn't "the type that is referenced in this thread", you may still run into the same problem. 
learn to keep distance between yourself and others in a way that facilitates the ends to your own means. all this really means is drawing up boundaries--the invisible currents around us, so to speak, that cause and influence how we are viewed by other people. 

just go about your day, go to work, be involved in so much as it concerns you completing your objectives... and don't really give more than that (should be natural, as you're an INTJ, to be all general and typist here). 
this allows you to create a general rapport with those around you, without you reaching over yourself to make something happen, so that you _can_ pepper here and there something that is flirtatious without going out of your way to grab someone's attention. 
at this point, you'll already have an avenue to act that isn't geared towards achieving the "like factor" with other people, as you have already solidified your place among them. now, when you do attempt to drop a line, you are doing it on more even grounds that is typically found in the out-dated male-to-female interaction. 
you have gained just a little bit of power here. 

even if you seem aloof and they give up on you, you still have more of a chance with that person than you would by being "really nice" and trying to make yourself as apparent and available as possible. 
this doesn't mean you have to be an asshole, or that there is anything wrong with you being a nice person--it's just that it takes people time to value those traits in a mate. when they're young, it isn't the "niceness" that attracted them, that's just what kept them in the end. 

just do things in a way that will work most positively for you. that means keeping your nice side, but not just "giving it out" at the same time. people can work for your generosity of spirit. sounds "bad", but truly, they are doing the same thing. 

, food for thought.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Setrleua said:


> Why was I even speaking to her? Ummm.... Yeah, I suppose you get girls by ignoring them and never speaking to them, right? Sorry for the sarcasm, but I don't really know what this means... why give them attention? Because you want to get to know them? Isn't that dating? Hahaha. Or maybe you are right... don't get to know them, just try to fuck them. Man, I do everything wrong.
> 
> I liked her more for who she is. I started liking her more after we started talking. Then I made the mistake of being friendly.
> 
> ...


I don't ignore them I'm just indifferent. And it shows through my vibe. Then when they qualify themselves and try to prove themselves to me so that they can feel validated by me, they get the beauty is common speech and then if they say something about themselves that I like I compliment them on it. But I'm not gonna compliment a woman or show any interest until I know she is interested in me.

If your reading PUA material, look at mystery method A3 section, male to female interest.


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## TheJ (Aug 3, 2015)

Tsubaki said:


> It might seem stereotypical, but one of the guys that I consider very self-confident said that he would spend his free days "in the bathtub with a glass of whiskey and a good cigar, just relaxing and enjoying the time."


Ok I know that wasn't the point of your reply, but who the fuck smokes cigars in the bath tub. It's all damp. That's no place for a cigar.


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## FePa (Feb 13, 2014)

well...

I am friendzoned a LOT because I am too friendly... friend-ish... friendingly acting...
a.k.a. I don't act like I am interested in the person and I don't stimulate any advances so I look just like a friend

maybe that's what she meant ?


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

This remind(s) me .. "Nice Guys" are only bitter when turned down by 9/10 and 10/10's. I know this; since I am a 10. 

Making Nice Guys Bitter internet Troll(s) Since 1990'.


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## Cotillion (Mar 26, 2013)

the "asshole" thing is just a meme.

the only rule in dating is: be attractive, don't be unattractive.

inb4 OP is under 6ft.


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## Tsubaki (Apr 14, 2015)

TheJ said:


> Ok I know that wasn't the point of your reply, but who the fuck smokes cigars in the bath tub. It's all damp. That's no place for a cigar.


I was actually also wondering how he would do it. I mean, I can definitely see the appeal to it, but for me personally, the chance that it might fall into the bathtub even is a little too high. Usually, I read in the bathtub, but even there, I just take books that are a little older and where it wouldn't be that horrible if I accidently got them wet.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Cotillion said:


> the "asshole" thing is just a meme.
> 
> the only rule in dating is: be attractive, don't be unattractive.
> 
> inb4 OP is under 6ft.


I am 6'3.

For comparision, my friend standing next to me in this photo is 6'1.










However, I agree to some extent. I am working on my looks, as I do think it's the main thing. But personality seems to matter to some extent to. Women have so many options. They can pick and choose from a variety of attractive men. Looks is a necessary but not sufficient condition for attraction.


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## TheJ (Aug 3, 2015)

Tsubaki said:


> I was actually also wondering how he would do it. I mean, I can definitely see the appeal to it, but for me personally, the chance that it might fall into the bathtub even is a little too high. Usually, I read in the bathtub, but even there, I just take books that are a little older and where it wouldn't be that horrible if I accidently got them wet.


I think it's important to learn to relax. To just "be" without need for any means to keep you entertained. Just sit back in the warm water and meditate.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Donovan said:


> on the one hand i can see what you're getting at, but i still think it's half the picture.
> 
> others have said that she doesn't speak for all people, but at the same time, what you're hinting is a large swath of the pie. that is how a lot of people function, regardless of their age: it's playing into the idea of 'raised value'. if you make yourself available, you have just lowered your value... in some people's, or in a majority of peoples' eyes.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much. This makes sense. Perhaps the truth is a bit more nuanced. I do think I'm too nice, friendly, etc, though. I'm not dangerous or exciting. I do need a ton of calibration. It is probably not simply being a complete asshole. I can see that. I will look into. Though, I think I need to err on the side of being not very friendly at all, because I'm naturally on hyper friendly. This is my main lesson. Also, I do think it's important not to be real. Not to be open. And not to speak to her like she's just a normal person. In the sense that, you don't want to engage in real conversation with her, because then you become an asexual object in her mind, not a sexual being. You have to be light, held back and reserved, nothing but flirtatious the entire time. This is part of not being 'friendly'.

However, simply not talking to girls never got me anywhere either. I can be in my own world, happily, I've been there. But then you're just a nerd loser who never talks to girls. Girls do not come to guys. Passive dating strategies work for girls and model looking men. If I don't make an effort to talk to girls and be more attractive to them, I'll continue simply being a kissless loser. Not only will I meet practically no new women, when I meet a girl, I will not even register on her radar as a human male. For this reason, I still think I need to be pro-active about getting a girl.

Yes, I am self confident in myself _in life_. I'm pretty self confident with random people. I don't have much trouble speaking to people. I don't care that much what random people think of me. (If I cared about what people thought of me would I be making posts and threads like this one, bearing my every inadequacy with women? lol.) There is very strong compartmentalization between life and women though. Women are completely different. I don't know what to say to them, or how to be, to be attractive. Being myself *DOES NOT WORK.* I'm accepting this and deciding to change myself. I am learning!


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Catwalk said:


> This remind(s) me .. "Nice Guys" are only bitter when turned down by 9/10 and 10/10's. I know this; since I am a 10.
> 
> Making Nice Guys Bitter internet Troll(s) Since 1990'.


I was more interested in her because she was a cool person. She was a 6, in my eyes, and definitely not my ideal type. Pretty enough though, given her personality.

You think I can even talk to a 10? Not a chance. This is a problem that I'm working on via two main vectors: i) improving my looks via diet and exercise, and ii) improving my vibe or personality via Game.

Also, I'm not bitter. I'm _amazed _by what I'm learning. Even in this thread, we have people giving me the same ideas that have gotten me no where. Absolutely, I know I am not good enough, but in the face of this, rather than doing what nearly everyone here has suggested: DO NOTHING and pray, I am *changing myself*. I'm taking the lessons. I'm trying, failing, and learning. This is why I called it a_ lesson_. 

I'm not trolling either. Expressing a genuine thought that some people get upset about is not trolling. Words have specific meanings.

Finally, you seem very pleased with yourself about your status as a 10, but being a hot girl is not an accomplishment. And it is temporary.


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

So you were only nice to get pussies. You know the difference between the badass asshole and the nice asshole? Women can hope the badass will be genuinely nice in private, but they can only fear the fake nice will be more violent and abusive.

Work as hard as you want, it won't give you the right to buy what is not for sale.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

IDontThinkSo said:


> So you were only nice to get pussies. You know the difference between the badass asshole and the nice asshole? Women can hope the badass will be genuinely nice in private, but they can only fear the fake nice will be more violent and abusive.
> 
> Work as hard as you want, it won't give you the right to buy what is not for sale.


I knew someone was gonna say "being nice to get pussy" haha. Oh god how messed up this accusation is. You are making my point for me.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

IDontThinkSo said:


> Work as hard as you want, it won't give you the right to buy what is not for sale.


Obviously they _are_ selling. The very girl who rejected me takes home random men from clubs for one nighters. She very much is selling. If the price is right.


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

The nice asshole is also very delusional.


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## SgtPepper (Nov 22, 2016)

Setrleua said:


> Today I learned a valuable lesson about attracting women. I had long suspected that being friendly was death to attraction, and today I have confirmed it, live in the field.
> 
> I asked a girl I had been talking to, "I'm curious. Am I in the friendzone?"
> 
> ...


lol, a bit oversimplified, don't you think? 

I'm a guy and i'm also turned off by a high degree of friendliness when it feels disingenuous


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## MyName (Oct 23, 2009)

Setrleua said:


> lol I knew someone would construe it as me being mean to her. Am I supposed to think every girl I'm interested in is a perfect 10 in looks???


Well personally I always think that girls are beautiful if I have feelings for them but that's just me.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Like mentioned its just about not being immediately emotionally available. It does not actually mean you should be literally mean. As mentioned its about being at least somewhat a challenge. That does not mean being a prick. Big difference in being a prick vs being too emotionally available. Try amd find that grey area. Its not so much about playing games. As maybe holding out some vulnerability amd accessibility. Its not that you should ignore the chick but whatever you do don't be too attentive where it can come off as needy or clingy. Its ok to wait and even slightly delay a response. I guess its a tricky line between showing interest but not being too available. You can still woo a girl with a special thought or surprise or listening too but do not use that crap as a selling point. Women do not like feel leveraged into affections thru acts of kindness. The kindness should be sparingly and without expectations or resentment. Mixed with living your own life. Ie you do not have to pick up right away you can wait. You do not need to call too much. Again there is a line you need to show some interest and actual evidence you hear anything they ever say. Find that boundary between preserving your life and not prioritizing someone in a way which builds resentment but enough to show interest.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Setrleua said:


> It was obvious that my intention was sexual. She sent me flirtatious snaps. I sent her them back. But then I also spoke to her as if she was a human. I was open. I was friendly. She told me some things about her past. I told her some about mine. I was nice. Interested in her as a person. I was real. This was my mistake.


It's not "being real" that is the problem:
it is that there are not two tracks, but three.
The dreaded Friendzone.
Mr. Right.
Mr. Right _Now _(for those women not saving themselves for marriage, or for those women who intend to play the field before settling down).

The signals and behaviour which work to escalate you in one track, don't work for another.
AND...if a woman is in a mode to exclude one of those tracks, then usually, acting in a way appropriate for that track, will get you friendzoned or ejected.

Also, in any relationship, it works best if emotional attraction, and physical escalation, and the level of commitment, all proceed at roughly the same rate: if any one gets seriously ahead of, or behind the others, usually the relationship runs onto the rocks, or one or both partners develops baggage.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Memory of Talon said:


> We will all be waiting for your next failed attempt at negging women thread opcorn:


I'm not hating on women. I'm sharing my experiences as I learn what works and what doesn't.


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## Parade of Sparrows (Mar 16, 2010)

Setrleua said:


> I'm not hating on women. I'm sharing my experiences as I learn what works and what doesn't.


Right and I'm saying that your next thread will be on how being an asshole did not work. tsubaki probably gave you the best input out of all the post if you are looking for real advice at all.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

EndsOfTheEarth said:


> Of course assuming that she wasn't just reaching for the easiest way out of a difficult conversation by simply agreeing with your assumption. Much eaiser to say that than to say...I'm not into you because.....amd then have an awkward conversation about it. Its really easy and highly effective to go around confirming your own biases. People can see them easily and since you're already convinced of the validity of your own assumptions its just eaiser for the other person when put on the spot to just agree with you as a way of escaping what they are perceiving as a potentially hostile situation.
> 
> I agree though that you are on your way to becoming an arsehole. Arseholes are genally convinced of something and hold onto their conviction regardless of evidence to the contrary. If thats where you want to be then yeah you're on your way. Here's a little truth about life that few people will admit to.
> 
> People will blatantly lie to your face, all day, every day according to what they think will be easiest on them. No-one and I mean no-one, not even your closest friends nor your enemies will ever have the guts to tell you the truth anout what they think of you or why you are not succeeding in a part of life you want to be succeeding in. To do so will rupture their own view of themselves as decent people because only real arseholes tell it like it is. Everyone you meet will spare your feelings in preference to telling you the truth. The only way to find out the truth is to be willing to look at yourself objectively and face truths you don't want to face.


I beg to differ on the underlined. INTJs *also* tell it like it is: and then everyone thinks we're assholes. :laughing: :exterminate:


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

Setrleua said:


>


Ah! The turbulent bit explains a lot. It creates a certain level of internal instability where going to the extremes is likely. I'm turbulent and it's a shit fight to keep myself on any kind of sane development path.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

EndsOfTheEarth said:


> Here's some fun facts about life. Ready?
> 
> - Just because we are attracted to a certain type of person doesn't mean we are destined to be with them. Its a sad reaity that mostly people do not end up with the exact type of person they are attracted to. For want of a better way of putting it, most people are attracted to people who are unlikely to be attracted to them. I've informally interviewed many people of my gender and of the opposite gender who are now in happy relationships over a period of about 8yrs. Just about none of them ended up with someone who was their 'type'. There are lots of cute anecdotes as to why, but at the end of the day people end up with the person most likely to date them and there is almost always a differential between that and what they imagine they want in a partner. None the less people find happiness without a partner of their 'type' anyway.
> 
> ...


Roosh is now realizing that the player lifestyle leads to nihilism: it *appears* to work fine in the short term, for those who think that success in life = a greater than average share of sex.

But there are several caveats buried deep within the PUA writings:

1) even the most successful PUAs only convert 2%-3% of their initial conversations with women into sex.
2) most of the women the PUAs have sex with, are 5s and 6s out of 10 -- a shade to the prettier side of average.
The good looking girls for some reason don't get attracted to players as much.
3) The PUAs like to talk of women hitting "the wall" -- age and physiology make them less attractive for hookups and such, and they have to settle down. But this happens to men, too, only about 12-15 years later than the women. For example, you don't see many 50-year-old men hitting the singles bars and such, and getting laid consistently.
4) The lifestyle leads to one of disillusionment, as they follow scripts at first, and then get more flexible, as it is the tone, body language, and emotional *key* of the response that attracts the women: but when they get accomplished at it, they end up losing respect for the women, and with that, they lose the emotional affirmation from sex with them. The PUA / hookup lifestyle, will render men, as well as women, less able to handle the commitment and responsibility of marriage, since sex, the glue that bonds in marriage, has lost much of its significance.
Finally there is the trail of baggage (both for the player and his play-ees); risk of sexually transmitted diseases; risk of sexual assault charges, paternity suits, and all the rest.

The better way to handle it -- paradoxically, also recommended by Roosh later on, as well as others -- is to work on developing your value as a man : your confidence (lift weights, learn a martial art, take up a hobby, learn a language or two, read great literature, and/or travel for extended stays where you need to learn the foreign language to get along, rather than hanging with the tourists.
This confidence will show up, without having to fake it, and will make you more attractive to women.

As far as meeting / dating women, the main thing of value that can really be learned from the PUA sites is
a) the need for confidence and "outcome independence"
b) how to interpret the subtle communication of tone, body english, and facial expressions which women use when they *are* interested


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

Setrleua said:


> I'm not hating on women. I'm sharing my experiences as I learn what works and what doesn't.


Look, I don't agree with the character-slaughter some are taking you through here for falling into the "nice guy complains he can't get laid in exchange for niceness" box, we are all humans, unreciprocated affection is frustrating to everyone, and have lapses in judgement or jumping the gun when placed in an emotional corner can sometimes be part of the deal.

That's said... You are jumping the gun, and this is a lapse of judgment. You would be right to conclude that being friendly alone doesn't win any hearts, but think about it, would it win yours? If a woman that otherwise didn't turn you on and you didn't really click with was just friendly and really kind to you, would that make you want her? Would it make you want to be with her? I bet that it wouldn't, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't want a woman that does turn you on and you do click with to be friendly and kind to you. 
As for this girl, there are some guys out there who will only date girls who act dumb, or only think highly sexually reserved women are real relationship material, or any other example of that sort of thing, imagine if a girl got rejected by one of those guys and then decided "Talking about interesting topics with guys doesn't work" or "openly flirting with a guy doesn't work", and she'd probably be right about the guy who rejected her, would she be right to assume any of that about you?


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Catwalk said:


> This remind(s) me .. "Nice Guys" are only bitter when turned down by 9/10 and 10/10's. I know this; since I am a 10.
> 
> Making Nice Guys Bitter internet Troll(s) Since 1990'.


You know, it also depends on how gracefully she turns him down: tastefully with respect, or Nuclear Rejection in public;
and, it depends on whether she was giving him mixed signals or toying with him.

Yes, there are losers who can't tell the difference, whether by inexperience or wishful thinking: but some gals play games too.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Setrleua said:


> Yes. It was a bit tongue in cheek. I say asshole, but I guess I mean more like douchebag player.
> 
> I found an amazing site for aspiring douchebags.
> 
> ...


Have you noted part of his regimen included the use of anabolic steroids to aid in bulking up?


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

@g_w, So nothings changed since I was last there then? Lol. That's why I suggested to go there, you need to see what the extremes of that style of thinking brings you if you're going to claim it's the holy grail. In any case the only useful parts of PUA material is equally applicable to men and women. 

- Put your best foot forward, self esteem, seeing value in yourself, don't fret about the rejections
- Don't act needy and clingy or thirsty
- learn to read social cues

But desperate guys want to find the magic bullet and will believe just about any level of bullshit, because its more entertaining to believe that you are merely missing the secret code to getting sex than it is to believe that dating and getting sex (from people you want it from) is hard in general. No matter who you are.


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## Nyanpichu (Jun 5, 2014)

this is an interesting thread :3


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Nyanpichu said:


> this is an interesting thread :3












Somehow I think this will not be the last.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

g_w said:


> You know, it also depends on how gracefully she turns him down: tastefully with respect, or Nuclear Rejection in public;
> and, it depends on whether she was giving him mixed signals or toying with him.
> 
> Yes, there are losers who can't tell the difference, whether by inexperience or wishful thinking: but some gals play games too.


I know. _No one_ know(s) more about women than _a woman_ that date(s) them. The only solution is to* toughin' up* the armor, sonny. That post was meant to be humorous; however.


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## Majority (Oct 3, 2016)

Reality Check said:


> Like no girl has ever heard that before.
> 
> How about walk up, give em the finger and ask em what makes em so f**king special that every guy wants to talk to them.
> 
> PS: Only do this on genuine 10's.


Yeah why not. Keep it simple and sincere.


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## Cotillion (Mar 26, 2013)

time for a thread recap


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## FePa (Feb 13, 2014)

Setrleua said:


> I love that shirt haha. A girl at a party once said to me once, 'excuse me, that shirt makes me happy!' I was so glad because that's how I see it too. It make me happy. It's a happy shirt to my mind because it's colourful and lively.  It was one of the shirts I bought in my quest to better my style too. Style Gods why have you forsaken meeee, *shakes fist at sky*


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*sorry*

ok, if it makes you happy, keep it


*just saying...*

oh, and another side note: I absolutelly hate short sleeve button-shirts too


----------



## FePa (Feb 13, 2014)

g_w said:


> Have you noted part of his regimen included the use of anabolic steroids to aid in bulking up?


oh, not only THAT !

I spent some [precious] minutes reading his techniques of pumpings his "deal" 
including BEFORE - AFTER And, Oh My Eyes !, DURING the exercises ...

he's such a douche !! aff






















*hey pretty kitten, miss you ! :-*


----------



## FePa (Feb 13, 2014)

g_w said:


> It's not "being real" that is the problem:
> it is that there are not two tracks, but three.
> The dreaded Friendzone.
> Mr. Right.
> ...


agree
and I add:

Not all single ladys (insert image of me dancing as Beyonce) WANT anything, not matter how nice/cute/whatever the guys that is hitting on her is... sometimes we just want to have friends


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

FePa said:


> EXACTLY !!
> 
> and even if we would like to date someone eventually ... in that exact moment you just don't ...
> as if the question "so, you're single/divorce/widower/forever alone/virgin ?" = "can I hit on you ?"
> ...


Ive had that before. Asked someone out, got the "No I'm not ready for dating". Hich OK cool enough.

But then suddenly 6 months later, her mind just changed. She asked me out. I was like "No sorry, I asked you out 6 months ago". Then she was the one who got butt hurt.

Found it funny, as its fine for her to reject but guys rejecting her is nota cceotable.

On another note, I was the same guy I was 6 months ago at that point, so really couldn't be arsed playing her stupid head games.

Then found out that the guy she did end up with used to beat her, she probably tried her weird mind games on him and it didn't work out. 

The guy was put in prison though, as no matter how weird of a freak she was, it probably didn't need to goto that.


----------



## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

FePa said:


> :monkey:
> 
> oh, I see... then it IS butt hurt after all
> 
> ...


That she wants to fuck guys who aren't friendly? I'm not butthurt. I'm taking the lesson.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Reality Check said:


> I have started noticing that the different coaches or guru's in the world of PUA are defo better suited to certain personality types.
> I know David D created C&F, but Ive never really looked much further into David D although I do know his immortal line "Attraction s not a choice". But from what I can gather he was a student of RJ, then he took Speed Seduction and repackaged it.
> 
> But Mystery is definitely more Extroverted People
> ...


Mystery is an INFJ.
He likes to use his Ni and Fe to analyze the social situation then he goes overboard with the Ti.
The ended up a lot in an Ni/Ti loop disillusioned and damaged.
He does cater to extroversion, but only cause the know very well to use his Fe.

RSD is INTJ Tyler's work.
He just decontructed everything and built a durable innovative system that would stand up to any challenge.
The sense of realism is there, but as an enneagram type 5 he really flirts with deep dark thinking a lot.
But he manages to free himself with surrounding himself with strong positive people and to let out his inner 8 so to speak.

Hypnotica is an ISFP I think.
He has some depth, but is more concerned with SP stuff.
So he can't be bothered to create such a comprehensive system like Tyler.

RJ is an interesting case.
I'm not sure what he is.
Havn't bothered to go into his material enough.

Regardless I feel that the whole pickup community is pretty superfluent.
It doesn't really help you all that much past a certain point.

Wanna get laid for the first time?
Might just help you do that.
Wanna get tons of one night stands?
Sure go right ahead.

Wanna figure out what your life is all about?
Some of it might give you some hints, but like anything, take it with a grain of salt.

Tying your identity up to pickup is a surefire way to mess up your head longterm.
Might seem okay when you are getting all that initial action.
But like everything in life, initial rewards fade.
Then what?

How To Take The Next Step (#41) – Jaret Grossman – Mentor for the Elite

I think the videogame analogy is a good one here.
You can of course keep adding challenges.
But if you take the path of a player then you need to keep adding difficulties for it to be enjoyable.
In the end you will probably end up like Tyler like a reflective chill due on Hawaii.
Or a broken messed up wreck who never figured out what drove him to begin with.

I'd say the messed up wreck is far more likely for most people.
Just because psychology is a pretty potent force.
As Jung said...
The inner world is just as dangerous as the outer world.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Can you all pick a party line???

Either 

a) Being nice makes me a loser because it doesn't work

OR

b) Being a dick doesn't work so I should be nice.

It can't be both at the same time. You can't be roasting me for both at the same time. It makes no sense. Pick one. Please.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Setrleua said:


> Can you all pick a party line???
> 
> Either
> 
> ...


Calibrate accordingly.
Look up 60yearsofchallenge on the old alt.seduction archives.

In regards to looks



> If you want to be considered “good looking” in woman’s eyes, you have to have the confidence to not care that you are ugly. Confidence is sexy. And a big part of being confident is realizing you are not good looking, but you don’t give a fuck. Women will definitely pick up on this attitude.
> 
> The only way to be confident is to actually have male model looks or admit that you are ugly. So if you aren’t a male model, then you are ugly. Say it. I am ugly. Like most guys you are probably average looking. But you can’t be average looking and still be worrying about looks. That is a formula for disaster.
> 
> ...


And as for calibration



> Reds, Yellows, Greens by 60yearsofchallenge
> 
> Dropping that REAL Seduction Knowledge from one of the Greats!
> 
> ...


----------



## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Strontphite said:


> Tying your identity up to pickup is a surefire way to mess up your head longterm.
> Might seem okay when you are getting all that initial action.
> But like everything in life, initial rewards fade.
> Then what?
> ...


Nothing is as low as you can get. Nothing can lessen my chances at this point.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

@Reality Check

I... am ugly. I am... ugly. I AM UGLY. I AM UGLY!!! hahaha. YESSSSS. I AM LIGHTSPEED UGLY.


----------



## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Tsubaki said:


> ...you sound so bitter. The main advice I can give you is to relax and be self-confident.
> 
> I am really not thinking that being "friendly" is the problem you have. It's that you put too much focus on the girl, doing everything to please her which actually has the opposite effect for you, because it shows that you do not value yourself enough and define yourself through the ability to get a woman. A guy who only tries to suck up to a woman just shows that he has nothing interesting about himself.
> 
> ...


That's quite ... interesting. Thanks


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Strontphite said:


> Mystery is an INFJ.
> He likes to use his Ni and Fe to analyze the social situation then he goes overboard with the Ti.
> The ended up a lot in an Ni/Ti loop disillusioned and damaged.
> He does cater to extroversion, but only cause the know very well to use his Fe.


Yeah I have him on FB, every so often he still has a crash. And when he crashes, he crashes.



> RSD is INTJ Tyler's work.
> He just decontructed everything and built a durable innovative system that would stand up to any challenge.
> The sense of realism is there, but as an enneagram type 5 he really flirts with deep dark thinking a lot.
> But he manages to free himself with surrounding himself with strong positive people and to let out his inner 8 so to speak.


Ive never really gotten much out of RSD. Sure I find some of their stuff motivational but nothing of any actual practical use. One of my mates is a fanboy and has all their courses and says they are different. But I'm not prepared to spend money based on what I have seen and heard.



> Hypnotica is an ISFP I think.
> He has some depth, but is more concerned with SP stuff.
> So he can't be bothered to create such a comprehensive system like Tyler.


Ive found his stuff the most useful. Even general lifestyle stuff, not specifically seduction related stuff.



> RJ is an interesting case.
> I'm not sure what he is.
> Havn't bothered to go into his material enough.


Ive only dabbled with his inner game stuff mostly, it has been a game changer so far. He covers pre sarging and after sarging, and how to actually learn from experiences. It seems like a missing piece of the puzzle at times. Ive ran a few of his patterns successfully Synaesthesia I'm not sure if it is a forbidden pattern or not, but damn its powerful.



> Regardless I feel that the whole pickup community is pretty superfluent.
> It doesn't really help you all that much past a certain point.
> 
> Wanna get laid for the first time?
> ...


True, but like Mystery Said "The Venusian Arts are to improve your life, not define it". or words to those effect. 



> How To Take The Next Step (#41) – Jaret Grossman – Mentor for the Elite
> 
> I think the videogame analogy is a good one here.
> You can of course keep adding challenges.
> ...


Ive seen a few people crash and become a wreck, its quite spectacular at times. But on the other hand Ive seen some awesome things. Its a mixed bag.


----------



## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

@Reality Check


Setrleua said:


> If you want to be considered “good looking” in woman’s eyes, you have to have the confidence to not care that you are ugly. Confidence is sexy. And a big part of being confident is realizing you are not good looking, but you don’t give a fuck. Women will definitely pick up on this attitude.
> 
> The only way to be confident is to actually have male model looks or admit that you are ugly. So if you aren’t a male model, then you are ugly. Say it. I am ugly. Like most guys you are probably average looking. But you can’t be average looking and still be worrying about looks. That is a formula for disaster.
> 
> ...


Holy shit man you are a gold mine.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

I don't think anyone is actually roasting 'you', it's more the dichotomy of the mindsets you are flipping between. What people are really picking apart here is the Nice Guy concept as a failure concept and also Player/PUA concept as also being a failure concept as well. Sure guys like to perpetuate the myth of Jedi mind tricks being real because you know....star wars....Lol! But at some point we all have to grow up beyond that and realise relationship and yes even negotiating for sex are complex subjects. Some people are more naturally apt to succeed in this way and others aren't. Same as some people naturally get maths while others need coaching and sometimes even then they don't really get past a functional understanding of it. 

It's just your extremist and black and white thinking attitudes on display here that people are commenting on. Look at the title of your own thread. You take one rejection in which someone reached for the easiest way to get you off their back and suddenly you're extrapolating that all women despise friendliness and you need to cut that shit out right now to get sex. Okay.....


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

EndsOfTheEarth said:


> I don't think anyone is actually roasting 'you', it's more the dichotomy of the mindsets you are flipping between. What people are really picking apart here is the Nice Guy concept as a failure concept and also Player/PUA concept as also being a failure concept as well. Sure guys like to perpetuate the myth of Jedi mind tricks being real because you know....star wars....Lol! But at some point we all have to grow up beyond that and realise relationship and yes even negotiating for sex are complex subjects. Some people are more naturally apt to succeed in this way and others aren't. Same as some people naturally get maths while others need coaching and sometimes even then they don't really get past a functional understanding of it.
> 
> It's just your extremist and black and white thinking attitudes on display here that people are commenting on. Look at the title of your own thread. You take one rejection in which someone reached for the easiest way to get you off their back and suddenly you're extrapolating that all women despise friendliness and you need to cut that shit out right now to get sex. Okay.....


Fair enough. I see what you are saying. Perhaps I'm going to an extreme. I don't know. I will continue to learn about PUA and to improve my looks with the gym though. I need to do _something_. And I see why it appears I'm flipping out over one incident. Though it was really the cumulation of a lot of experiences, reading, friends. Etc. Was sort of a final straw.

I spoke to my friends about it and they all agreed basically.

One said to me, "Yeah you can't be nice to them, or they think you're weird."


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

@Reality Check

Honestly though, all this Game stuff is about to be irrelevant because you're turning me gay. I think I'm in love.

D... do... do you wanna make out, bro?


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Setrleua said:


> @Reality Check
> 
> Honestly though, all this Game stuff is about to be irrelevant because you're turning me gay. I think I'm in love.
> 
> D... do... do you wanna make out, bro?


I'm flattered you think that way, but your really not my type.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

Setrleua said:


> Fair enough. I see what you are saying. Perhaps I'm going to an extreme. I don't know. I will continue to learn about PUA and to improve my looks with the gym though. I need to do _something_. And I see why it appears I'm flipping out over one incident. Though it was really the cumulation of a lot of experiences, reading, friends. Etc. Was sort of a final straw.
> 
> I spoke to my friends about it and they all agreed basically.
> 
> One said to me, "Yeah you can't be nice to them, or they think you're weird."


Doing something is good, congrats on that. But you've got to know a forum is always going to have a field day with this kind of stuff. I've been rejected heaps too and it's frustrating. We all find our own ways to come to terms with it and to work around it. I hope you find an answer somewhere that works for you. Nothing works for everyone, all the time.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Reality Check said:


> I'm flattered you think that way, but your really not my type.


Hahahaha. Not sure if double reverse bluff or if you took me seriously.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Setrleua said:


> Nothing is as low as you can get. Nothing can lessen my chances at this point.


Well I really hadn't expected to get into a dialoge with you.
But since you address me, I might as well give you my 2 cents.

Well I see that you have this dichotomy thing going on with nice/dick.
Sure in mainstream society that is a very potent opposite that do on the surface hold some validity.
Girls want the bad boy to bed them and if you want to bed girls at a bar that is what you do.
Do not let anyone tell you otherwise.

However in the grand scheme of your life, do realize that not every person you encounter will follow that rule of thumb.
It is mostly for the bar scene.
Or if you really take it far like some pickup artists have done, they can impose that frame anywhere.
However from your posts you don't strike me as strong enough to take that frame to it's fullest.
If you can get laid some and feel you need it, *go for it*.
But do realize, that it isn't the be all, end all of life.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Reality Check said:


> Yeah I have him on FB, every so often he still has a crash. And when he crashes, he crashes.


Ah so he still can't figure out himself.
Sad really.



> Ive never really gotten much out of RSD. Sure I find some of their stuff motivational but nothing of any actual practical use. One of my mates is a fanboy and has all their courses and says they are different. But I'm not prepared to spend money based on what I have seen and heard.


Yeah, they have different coaches and they have different approaches.
ISTJ, ENFP, ISFP, INFJ, ESFP, ENFJ etc
I think Tyler capitalized on their differences and made it into a selling point rather than having one truth.
I took a bootcamp with Alex ENFP, don't regret it, he taught me a lot.
Self amusement as a concept is very powerful.
Why are you in the bar? To have fun!
If you are not having fun, you might as well leave.
You are not there to entertain anyone else, but yourself.
Girls will like you because you like yourself, not because you have some tricks up your sleeve.
They might sleep wit you if you follow some procedure like mystery.
But then you get massive last minute resistance as they really sense that something is off and have second thoughts.
It is hard to keep an act up all the way from club to bed.
If you do stuff your your own enjoyment it won't be fake and hence won't feel fake either.
I stopped going to bars and such cause I didn't feel it was much fun.
If I did I would have let the pickup scene define me, jumped trough hoops I didn't feel like to get laid.



> Ive found his stuff the most useful. Even general lifestyle stuff, not specifically seduction related stuff.


He has some powerful stuff no doubt.

I


> ve only dabbled with his inner game stuff mostly, it has been a game changer so far. He covers pre sarging and after sarging, and how to actually learn from experiences. It seems like a missing piece of the puzzle at times. Ive ran a few of his patterns successfully Synaesthesia I'm not sure if it is a forbidden pattern or not, but damn its powerful.


To be honest he bored me and I felt after listening to one of his videos that I hadn't learned a thing.
It was like...
Huh?
What was it you where trying to teach me again?
I guess there was something about stories that let her project her innermost desires or something on.
Might be an ENFJ, would explain why I struggle with it as an INTJ.




> True, but like Mystery Said "The Venusian Arts are to improve your life, not define it". or words to those effect.


How ironic that such words came from that wreck... xD



> Ive seen a few people crash and become a wreck, its quite spectacular at times. But on the other hand Ive seen some awesome things. Its a mixed bag.


It always is in any part of life.


----------



## Blue Ribbon (Sep 4, 2016)

Lol this guy. 

He keeps pursuing the kind of girl who isn't into him. Then he gets mad when they reject him and decides to be an ass all the while there probably are girls who do find him attractive but he's not into him. 

Now he's going to be a douchebag player and then even the girls who are into him will no longer be into him and then he realises that women are the problem and we'll get to see one of 'those' threads some time in the future. 

And then we can collectively shake our heads and think 'yep - saw that coming'


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Strontphite said:


> Ah so he still can't figure out himself.
> Sad really.
> .


Last year he ran a load of bootcamps in Amsterdam, then after they had finished he somehow got stranded there. I'm not sure how as he should of been loaded.

From what I can tell, he is only really happy when he is teaching.

Do feel for the guy with the situation with his kids though.



> Yeah, they have different coaches and they have different approaches.
> ISTJ, ENFP, ISFP, INFJ, ESFP, ENFJ etc
> I think Tyler capitalized on their differences and made it into a selling point rather than having one truth.
> I took a bootcamp with Alex ENFP, don't regret it, he taught me a lot.
> ...


When I first started learning this stuff, I experienced the exact same thing. I was doing the routines but it felt fake. I didn't feel attractive and I didn't feel worthy of any woman unless she was fat and ugly. That was when I discovered Hypnotica (took me a while to find out who Rasputin from "The Game" was). Then after listening to some of his hypnosis audio's every night, everything just changed. I felt attractive and women were genuinely attracted to me.

As for self amusement, again one of Hypnotica's Masters Circle audio's seemed to nail that on the head for me. When I had listened to that for a week and next went out, I was enjoying myself no matter what. 

I just prefer Hypnotica's method of installing beliefs and mindsets via hypnosis. I'm quite susceptible to it and I don't analyse what is being said. So works a charm for me. Although his sleep programming stuff does lead to me having pretty messed up sexual dreams where I rehearse stuff he teaches in Modern Day Sexual Man (Stacking Orgasms, tantra based stuff). 



> To be honest he bored me and I felt after listening to one of his videos that I hadn't learned a thing.
> It was like...
> Huh?
> What was it you where trying to teach me again?
> ...


Ive noticed that the more introverted RSD fan types, really don't buy into this story telling stuff. Ive always told stories as my way of communicating so guess that's why MM and RJ appeal to me.



> How ironic that such words came from that wreck... xD
> .


Sometimes I think he needs to follow some of his own teachings.


As for my own journey, I have hit a few major nails on the head that are more to do with Lifestyle and personal peace and acceptance, so 2017 is gonna be interesting. No more blowing my wages within 2 weeks and then being too skint to go on dates or feeling unworthy as not having any money. After 34 years of existence, I have finally over the last 3 months slowly learnt to manage my money. Hoo-fooking-rah. It gets annoying having to turn girls down due to being skint from bad money management. Or getting loads of texts saying "Why were you not out on fri/sat" again due to bad spending habits. Like I say 2017 is gonna be special.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

@Reality Check

Oh man. I am willing to put in the effort. It's basically all I have on my mind. lol


----------



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Setrleua said:


> I'm sure I could probably get an ugly girlfriend pretty easily. I've matched some pretty horrific girls on tinder. I'm sure I could meet up with them and date them. But what would be the point? I wouldn't enjoy it whatsoever. I'd probably feel grossed out. I've thought about it, but I'd rather be single.
> 
> If all else fails, there's always getting rich, I guess. If I put the considerable intelligence at my disposal to the task, I'm sure I could make some decent money.


Same here, I could get with an ugly bird right now, but then I would spend the rest of my life knowing that I quit/gave up and just settled. There are 2 that wont leave me alone, I wont even sleep with them, self respect and don't want them getting the wrong idea.

If the worst came to the worst, I would rather just get rich and have an attractive gold-digger. At least then I could pretend to believe her lies. But I prefer to spend my free time working on myself, going out building my social skills and(slowly) social circle and getting into shape. After all Life is just a work in progress.


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## Asura (Apr 2, 2016)

I was originally "friend zoned" by my girlfriend. We fooled around for sometime and one day I suggested we try a relationship and she turned me down for someone she had known a long time. I wasn't upset because I don't get attached easily but I took one look at the guy and thought "oh no". He was going to treat her like garbage. And he did. 

Extremely long story short I kept being her friend but I started focusing on me. I lost 80 pounds, started studying more and more into psychology and MBTI and generally just tried to become the person I wanted to be in my mind. Eventually she realized how bad this guy was for her(Took her 8 months >.>) and broke up with him. I never suggested she break up with him one time after the 50+ times she came to me for comfort. If we were going to be together it was going to be because she wanted to be with me.

A few months later she asked me out. Now we live together.

The lesson I'm trying to teach here is don't worry so much about finding someone else, worry more about finding yourself and the right person will come to you when the time is right.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Asura said:


> I was originally "friend zoned" by my girlfriend. We fooled around for sometime and one day I suggested we try a relationship and she turned me down for someone she had known a long time. I wasn't upset because I don't get attached easily but I took one look at the guy and thought "oh no". He was going to treat her like garbage. And he did.
> 
> Extremely long story short I kept being her friend but I started focusing on me. I lost 80 pounds, started studying more and more into psychology and MBTI and generally just tried to become the person I wanted to be in my mind. Eventually she realized how bad this guy was for her and broke up with him. I never suggested she break up with him one time after the 50+ times she came to me for comfort. If we were going to be together it was going to be because she wanted to be with me.
> 
> ...


Where as I agree with you totally, on doing stuff for ones self.

I do think there has to be a catalyst or a reason.

I got into working on myself when I was super needy and clingy. But f I had never gone through that patch I would just of stayed how I was. I'm thankful I thought so lowly of myself at one point, because without that catalyst and hitting rock bottom I would never have wanted to change.

The path to success often starts with low self esteem.


----------



## Allosy (Jul 28, 2016)

I don't think there is anything wrong with being friendly, isn't a female partner a girlf_friend_, anyway?

But, i guess if she meant when you're being overly-sympathetic she suspects you have ulterior reasons for doing that, instead she'd prefer you'd let the conversation roll out naturally.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

FePa said:


> There you go,
> together with the penis enhancement techinques of that other site, THAT will give you any girl you want
> 
> HAHAHA
> ...


As usual, the comic strip xkcd has both sides of the controversy pretty much nailed.


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Reality Check said:


> Ive had that before. Asked someone out, got the "No I'm not ready for dating". Hich OK cool enough.
> 
> But then suddenly 6 months later, her mind just changed. She asked me out. I was like "No sorry, I asked you out 6 months ago". Then she was the one who got butt hurt.
> 
> ...


Re: the bolded. Is that obscure latin, or did your spellcheck just have a bout of dyslexic aphasia?


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Setrleua said:


> Can you all pick a party line???
> 
> Either
> 
> ...


You have a ways to go before you understand women:


----------



## Parade of Sparrows (Mar 16, 2010)

Setrleua said:


> Can you all pick a party line???
> 
> Either
> 
> ...


Hmm and here I thought INTJs were somehow immune to logical fallacies. I guess I was wrong. Such a simplistic world view to believe that only one of these must be true. Or perhaps just a troll. 

Owell. I'll be awaiting your success story.

I think there have been enough replies here for you to actually work with. Confidence seems to win out more than being nice or being a jerk. Not focusing so much on the girl and having your own life and goals. Be happy with yourself. Be happy in general.


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Blue Ribbon said:


> Lol this guy.
> 
> He keeps pursuing the kind of girl who isn't into him. Then he gets mad when they reject him and decides to be an ass all the while there probably are girls who do find him attractive but he's not into him.
> 
> ...


So why laugh at him? Why not help him to actually land women? That way, there will be either one less douchebag or one less whiny geek who "just doesn't get it" always hitting on women and ruining the atmosphere.

And by "land" I would mean "date" not just "bang". Once a guy feels like he has a chance to date women more or less regularly, he gets much less anxious about it.


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Ugly people get attracted to people too. Except ugly people should stay at the bottom. Survival of the fittest.


I can't tell you how simultaneously relieved and disappointed I am, that you chose to spell fittest with an "i" instead of an "a"...:shocked::laughing::exterminate:


----------



## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

FePa said:


> oh, not only THAT !
> 
> I spent some [precious] minutes reading his techniques of pumpings his "deal"
> including BEFORE - AFTER And, Oh My Eyes !, DURING the exercises ...
> ...


*NOW* you've gone and done it. I've spent the last hour or so surfing his site reading about weight loss and supplements...


----------



## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Memory of Talon said:


> Hmm and here I thought INTJs were somehow immune to logical fallacies. I guess I was wrong. Such a simplistic world view to believe that only one of these must be true. Or perhaps just a troll.
> 
> Owell. I'll be awaiting your success story.
> 
> I think there have been enough replies here for you to actually work with. Confidence seems to win out more than being nice or being a jerk. Not focusing so much on the girl and having your own life and goals. Be happy with yourself. Be happy in general.


They are mutually exclusive if applied to the general population. 

A and NOT A cannot both be true. Law of excluded middle.

If you mean, being mean works on _some _girls, being nice works on _some _girls, yeah that is not mutually exclusive, but that's not what people are saying to me, nor the proposition I'm refering to.


----------



## NewBeginning (Oct 8, 2016)

In your personal example, there is already too much talking. 

"Am I in the friend zone?"

Do you really have to ask.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

Setrleua said:


> Today I learned a valuable lesson about attracting women. I had long suspected that being friendly was death to attraction, and today I have confirmed it, live in the field.
> 
> I asked a girl I had been talking to, "I'm curious. Am I in the friendzone?"
> 
> ...


What do you mean by "too friendly"?


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

NewBeginning said:


> In your personal example, there is already too much talking.
> 
> "Am I in the friend zone?"
> 
> Do you really have to ask.


Yes. I really am oblivious. But I've been reading a lot in the past few days. I want to get it. I have to get it.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

I'm curious which side isn't being objective here. The people saying "well you know, not all women are like that" or the ones saying "as a general rule, you can't be their friend".


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## Thelonious91 (May 24, 2016)

You have to remember attraction is still ruled by primal instincts. Friendliness, niceness etc mean nothing in the mating game until something about you arouses a type of desire that bypasses the scrutiny of the mind. Girl sees guy A immediate attraction based on looks then thinks all the other stuff; is he interesting? a player? could he like me? etc. Girl sees guy B immediate attraction some sort of celebrity, talented then thinks of all the other stuff. Girl sees guy C no immediate attraction, the guy is average or below average looking and no obvious status or talent so, with no instinctive attraction he's just another guy might become a "friend" at best. I don't like the nice asshole/bad boy dichotomy it's childish after a certain age, the reality is more nuanced. I think the best bet for an INTJ is to develop oneself and embrace the fact you are trying to become a more attractive man, there is nothing wrong with this. Maybe direct your attention towards women who are very different to you in personality and interest, go places you don't usually go, I find unfamiliarity is good for sexual tension.

If you are not having the experiences you want, act now, don't listen to anyone who says your 26, still young, loads of time etc. Your a grown man certain things need to be figured out quickly or it just gets more awkward to deal with as you get older. Also ignore the "be yourself" type advice, it's just a very shortsighted way of looking thing. To have new better experiences with women, your going to have to do things you never done and acquire and/or develop new qualities. I would say get in shape, either share a talent or develop one to share, think about ways you can getter better financially. If you become acquainted with someone you are attracted to don't wait until your comfortable with them to show them you are attracted, lead with attraction and embrace the tension and awkwardness but be playful about it. Good luck.


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## thebunny (Feb 13, 2016)

Funny- being friendly for me means for most guys that I like them. Maybe I should just not be friendly lol.


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## JayShambles (Aug 9, 2016)

Sylarv said:


> Today I learned a valuable lesson about attracting women. I had long suspected that being friendly was death to attraction, and today I have confirmed it, live in the field.
> 
> I asked a girl I had been talking to, "I'm curious. Am I in the friendzone?"
> 
> ...


I don't think that genuinely being friendly is the issue here. I believe you nailed it when you suggested being "too" friendly.

For instance, it's obviously common to not feel comfortable within the first stages of interaction so the authenticity of your friendliness would appear a lot more shy and reserved, and because the main focus is usually in trying to impress the female it's easy to lose sight of how 'friendly' you're actually appearing. Most men would appear to be kissing the asses of the females they're attracted to when really they're just having a hard time trying to find comfort within acting 'genuinely' friendly. 

If you're able to find the confidence & composure during the first stages of interacting with whom you're attracted to it won't matter so much on whether you're being friendly or not when your confidence is appealing enough.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

Akelei said:


> I gotta ask, do you still believe what you said in your first post, even after all the replies you've got?
> 
> 
> Because if you do, it's easy to say you are completely biased. You've already made up your mind... not based in facts but based on assumptions - your personal biases. That's why you ignore when people in this thread say facts, facts like what Tsubaki said in the first page and what a lot of other people who commented here have said as well.


Not really. I have shifted my view on it significantly. I've done a lot of reading. Most of the advice given here is of little use, but it made me consider there is more nuance to it than simply 'be an asshole'.

I have gone down the PUA seduction community rabbit hole, and chuckled a lot along the way. Being nice alone is bad. It's asexual. But it doesn't mean you should be an _asshole_.


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## Sylarz (Sep 4, 2014)

AwkwardShorty said:


> General question here: why the actual living fuck would anyone want to be with someone they have to act like an asshole around just to keep getting penis in vagina on a regular basis? Doesn't it feel kinda bad knowing that although you are now getting laid, you are also being an asshole, everyone can tell you are an asshole, you yourself admits to being an asshole, and even your sexual partner thinks you are an asshole, but they're just too fucked up to want something better for themselves?
> 
> Whatever happened to making each other be better? You know, a healthy relationship?
> 
> ...


Sex is really good. The best thing, really. And if that were the only reality we lived in, I'd accept it. Idealism doesn't get results.


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

@Sylarv Lesson #2: Be an asshole. Right? :wink:

Anyways, old thread, but the focus wouldn't be "do not be friendly" but rather "don't do the most/don't be too forward/don't exaggerate/don't be too obvious."


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

mytinyheart said:


> @Sylarv Lesson #2: Be an asshole. Right? :wink:




To be honest i think lesson #2: Find someone into you.


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## NewBeginning (Oct 8, 2016)

Sylarz said:


> Yes. I really am oblivious. But I've been reading a lot in the past few days. I want to get it. I have to get it.


That's how it's done.


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## Cthulhu And Coffee (Mar 8, 2012)

Lol. I can't speak for other women, but I do not like "assholes." 

I like being spoken to without an obvious ulterior motive, whether because I otherwise feel like someone's trying way too hard to seem "nice," or because they're trying to seem tougher than they are. The key, in my opinion, is to listen and respond. Speak to someone like you're legitimately trying to learn something about them -- because they never stop being a person, even if you're just trying to hook up with them -- and let things happen.


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## stormgirl (May 21, 2013)

Many if not most people of both genders have low self-esteem.

People with low self-esteem are not likely to stand up for themselves.

Therefore, people with low self-esteem routinely find people who treat them poorly, because they feel that’s all they deserve.

So while men often ask why do women prefer assholes, I could just as easily ask why do so many men seem to prefer women who treat them like crap, are full of drama, etc.

If you are self-loathing, you’re only ever going to attract the worst people!


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

Playing the game is overrated. Just do you. Be yourself. Everything will fall into place then.


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