# Amway: A living social horror?



## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

Recently, I have opened a Game Development Club. Everything was going happy and fine until one of the members, I will call him Ben (possibly ISTP or ESTP), came to me and asked "Hey dude, are you seeking for success?"

Needless to say, I was curious with what business plan he has... he walked me through these simple motivation lines (simple because I have known that when I was 13), and then asked me are you willing to take up this opportunity? I won't agree 100%, so I said I will see what the plan was.

He then brought his friend along, only then I know they are Amway distributor. They keep on trying to convince me while I was putting up my Cynical Mode. I felt like the whole thing is like a brainwash process. I don't want to be convinced by these people, they sound evil (even if they are genuinely good). I also don't see myself becoming an Amway distributor because I hate to convince humans (because I never have to if they have the interest in me).

My father's friend was a distributor for Cosway. I asked for his advice and he supported me for not joining. Because being a distributor may ruin your or your relationship's life. I have decided not to join, but the situation got worst, Ben calls me today and told me not to make a decision until you went to one of their seminars. My heart has been feeling terrible whole day long, trying to plan what should I do to "run away".

Now I know what it feels like to be a distributor (without having to be one). It will certainly make some people around you feel uncomfortable being with you. I have seen both negative comments and positive comments in the online forum, but I felt like I would not trust those 'positive' comments. 

Also, I don't HAVE to be a distributor to be a "Winner" (wiener >.>) or to become rich. Those two are not my values, and my values are far more complex than that shit. I don't have to be a winner, nor a rich man in order to be happy. My values has always been "design" and "product", more like an actual product company. I don't share the same common interest as Amway does. I am happy when my product looks perfect and nice with many good comments surrounding it.

My answer has always been a NO, my gut tells me "if something doesn't feels right, don't do it". I don't have to be successful so early, I just need some time to gather power. However, as the situation progress, and I have been trying to hold off this big decision for a long time, I think it is time to end it once and for all. It has been a month since his first encounter with me, and I have been analyzing the whole situation since. The problem now is, HOW?

I know when someone is in deep stress (not really stress, but more like bad feeling) can hardly think for himself, so I will need some advice from the people in this forum, thank you very much 

P.S: I was cynical because everything they said sounds like a propaganda, thus explains why everything they said sounds so 'simple' to me.


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Good on you! Except, I'm kind of confused as to what a "distributor" is in this case.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> Good on you! Except, I'm kind of confused as to what a "distributor" is in this case.


It's an over-glorified term for salesman, except you can have your armies of brainwashed troops working hard for your fat ass. 

Kind of like building your own business empire in another person's empire, except you don't own that empire entirely, you just play around with it. You convince one people to join Amway, he is under you, and you can start seeing commission if he successfully made some sales. The more people you convince, the bigger your empire is, the bigger your empire is, the more money you get. Looks easy right? Not for me, it won't be always that simple, and there is always risk to simple things. Everything has pros and cons.... so if something sounds too good to be right, it probably is.

I suggest reading this one: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/commen39.htm (Look for the fourth comment)


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> It's an over-glorified term for salesman, except you can have your armies of brainwashed troops working hard for your fat ass.
> 
> Kind of like building your own business empire in another person's empire, except you don't own that empire entirely, you just play around with it. You convince one people to join Amway, he is under you, and you can start seeing commission if he successfully made some sales. The more people you convince, the bigger your empire is, the bigger your empire is, the more money you get. Looks easy right? Not for me, it won't be always that simple, and there is always risk to simple things. Everything has pros and cons.... so if something sounds too good to be right, it probably is.
> 
> I suggest reading this one: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/commen39.htm (Look for the fourth comment)


Oh my god. 
Dude. This should be moved to Current Events, even though the story was circa 1996 (oh hey wow my birth year). If these dudes came up to you in 2014 it's still going on.


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

The creepiest thing is the "negative" products and all that... If you aren't pro-Amway you're a "negative" person.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

I felt like Amway is one of the most evilest corporation I have ever seen. Everything they say is trying to brainwash you or something. If anything, there is simply too much evidence of the level of evilness in Amway.

Some links:
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/culthelp.htm
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/index.htm


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> Oh my god.
> Dude. This should be moved to Current Events, even though the story was circa 1996 (oh hey wow my birth year). If these dudes came up to you in 2014 it's still going on.


Dude, I was born in 1996 too, guess we are in the same age 

Worst, the guy convincing me are the same age as we are too.


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> I felt like Amway is one of the most evilest corporation I have ever seen. Everything they say is trying to brainwash you or something. If anything, there is simply too much evidence of the level of evilness in Amway.
> 
> Some links:
> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/culthelp.htm
> https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/index.htm


Went to the "links" section of the site; half of them didn't work. I wonder why?


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> Went to the "links" section of the site; half of them didn't work. I wonder why?


Old website I guess... but I think you can just Google it up, this information doesn't just comes from this site.


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> Old website I guess... but I think you can just Google it up, this information doesn't just comes from this site.


Yeah... I was initially confused because when I googled Amway it just seemed like a Bed, Bath, and Beyond clone.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

You know, I am a Buddhist, and we emphasize on seeking the truth of everything. We once said, the three greatest poison that any humans will ever take is Greed, Ignorance, and Anger.

Greed for money, success, and fame, and would do anything to get it, no matter it costs your life or not.
Ignorant of the truth, and only trust the lies, looking only at one side of a thing, but not the other.
Anger because of pain, rejection and things not going your way.

If one person can dominate these three poisons in their personality, they will become one of the greatest person alive, no matter what MBTI types you are.


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> You know, I am a Buddhist, and we emphasize on seeking the truth of everything. We once said, the three greatest poison that any humans will ever take is Greed, Ignorance, and Anger.
> 
> Greed for money, success, and fame, and would do anything to get it, no matter it costs your life or not.
> Ignorant of the truth, and only trust the lies, looking only at one side of a thing, but not the other.
> ...


Maybe Amway just has a huge problem with Buddism then. So much so, that they feel the need to contradict everything they stand for and more!
This is seriously making me nauseous. It's a real-life cult.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> Maybe Amway just has a huge problem with Buddism then. So much so, that they feel the need to contradict everything they stand for and more!
> This is seriously making me nauseous. It's a real-life cult.


Dude, Amway is international... so it could be at your doorstep at any time...


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> Dude, Amway is international... so it could be at your doorstep at any time...


Lol, I'll come to the door in all of my Tae Kwon Do hear and kindly insist that I am fiercely anti-Amway. 
Thank you for enlightening me on this subject ^^


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> Lol, I'll come to the door in all of my Tae Kwon Do hear and kindly insist that I am fiercely anti-Amway.
> Thank you for enlightening me on this subject ^^


And wearing an armor stating: "I'm immune to bullshits" should work too ^^


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> And wearing an armor stating: "I'm immune to bullshits" should work too ^^


I can imagine exactly how this situation will play out: Amway shows up at my door, I go to answer it, my mom's like "no it's fine I got it", I cling to her legs and beg her to not open the door bECAUSE IT'S AMWAY, OH MOM THEY'LL TAKE YOU TOO DON'T SUCCUMB TO THEIR LIES


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> I can imagine exactly how this situation will play out: Amway shows up at my door, I go to answer it, my mom's like "no it's fine I got it", I cling to her legs and beg her to not open the door bECAUSE IT'S AMWAY, OH MOM THEY'LL TAKE YOU TOO DON'T SUCCUMB TO THEIR LIES


AMWAY, AMWAY'S EVERYWHERE! HIDE YO KIDS AND WAIF!







<-- Actual depiction of Amway distributors


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> AMWAY, AMWAY'S EVERYWHERE! HIDE YO KIDS AND WAIF!
> 
> View attachment 151666
> <-- Actual depiction of Amway distributors


Seriously though, is this happening as frequently as in the past? A lot of stuff seems like it's from the 90-00's.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> Seriously though, is this happening as frequently as in the past? A lot of stuff seems like it's from the 90-00's.


It is, I still remember the fuss about it when I was 7 years old. My father's friend were caught in this system, and ultimately regretted it years later.

P.S: And that is why my father unfriended him until one day he said that he has quited Cosway (same as Amway).


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> It is, I still remember the fuss about it when I was 7 years old. My father's friend were caught in this system, and ultimately regretted it years later.
> 
> P.S: And that is why my father unfriended him until one day he said that he has quited Cosway (same as Amway).


The question is, how did I not hear about this beforehand?


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> The question is, how did I not hear about this beforehand?


They're pretty rare, and like a disease, we don't know when they strikes.

I think they have started a new plan of attacking college students, because you know, college tuition is expensive, and student needs money to pay for their tuition, so these dumb-dumb college students would easily believe them and start on their journey to become a Diamond distributor (the highest level of distributorship).


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> They're pretty rare, and like a disease, we don't know when they strikes.
> 
> I think they have started a new plan of attacking college students, because you know, college tuition is expensive, and student needs money to pay for their tuition, so these dumb-dumb college students would easily believe them and start on their journey to become a Diamond distributor (the highest level of distributorship).


*Just Say NO To Amway*


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> *Just Say NO To Amway*


I will have a hard time to reject him... He is so intimidating (STP is more intimidating than ENTJ?), I really wanted to punch him, but then he acts friendly again (WTF?).

Anyway, I will say NO to everything, but I still have a bad feeling that I need to tell the world >.>


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## Siggy (May 25, 2009)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> It's an over-glorified term for salesman, except you can have your armies of brainwashed troops working hard for your fat ass.
> 
> Kind of like building your own business empire in another person's empire, except you don't own that empire entirely, you just play around with it. You convince one people to join Amway, he is under you, and you can start seeing commission if he successfully made some sales. The more people you convince, the bigger your empire is, the bigger your empire is, the more money you get. Looks easy right? Not for me, it won't be always that simple, and there is always risk to simple things. Everything has pros and cons.... so if something sounds too good to be right, it probably is.
> 
> I suggest reading this one: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/commen39.htm (Look for the fourth comment)




I thought this reply was pretty epic


"Frist of all I want to say that I think you post all of the negitive E-mails and leave all the positives out. Secound I want to say that all of the products that Amway sell are serperior to anything I have used in the market place, and 3rd who gives you the right to STEEL peoples dreames. Amyway backs all of there products thats a lot more than I can say for there competitors.
*[I SWEAR I don't make this stuff up.]*


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## The Chameleon (May 23, 2014)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> I will have a hard time to reject him... He is so intimidating (STP is more intimidating than ENTJ?), I really wanted to punch him, but then he acts friendly again (WTF?).
> 
> Anyway, I will say NO to everything, but I still have a bad feeling that I need to tell the world >.>


You have to tell other people, this is fucked up and I don't think other people will stand for it either. 
ESTP (from the ones I know irl) are usually only intimidating because of their ego and overall strong personality, which you can totally counter by not egging him on. Saying no is probably the best thing to do


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

Dear Sigmund said:


> I thought this reply was pretty epic
> 
> 
> "Frist of all I want to say that I think you post all of the negitive E-mails and leave all the positives out. Secound I want to say that all of the products that Amway sell are serperior to anything I have used in the market place, and 3rd who gives you the right to STEEL peoples dreames. Amyway backs all of there products thats a lot more than I can say for there competitors.
> *[I SWEAR I don't make this stuff up.]*


Yeah, I do realize there are pros and cons to Amway, but one thing I would say about the balance between the pros and cons is that, it is simply a mediocre business model that I will never put my hands in. That's because the amount of cons are as equal as the pros. And even so, all the pros are just from 'their perspective'. No business will ever say they are not the best product in the industry/market, they will be very biased about their data so they can sell.

However, as much as I admit their products are 'superior' to other brands, I would never see myself in such business.
1) I am not a natural salesman, I am a natural visionary leader. Leave salesman to other people!
2) It will waste my time learning how to convince people to buy a product, I rather to be in the process of making the product itself.
3) I am just not so keen with everyday life products, they bores me, and I just use whatever I need.

Here's one of their product demonstration on Youtube:





I think Amway should start to do actual product selling instead of wasting time recruiting people and making others feel uneasy around with their distributors. And if the whole idea of removing middle-men and save cost on the products, then they have definitely added a thousand more middle-men in between them now.

P.S: Oh btw, just take a look at the bunch of crap comments below that video.


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## Siggy (May 25, 2009)

@Nikorasu Chan


Look at the spelling errors and the syntax of the person who replied. It indicates that the person who wrote it wasn't too bright, thus falling for Amways brainwashing.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

Dear Sigmund said:


> Look at the spelling errors and the syntax of the person who replied. It indicates that the person who wrote it wasn't too bright, thus falling for Amways brainwashing.


I guess the end of humanity isn't because of meteor hitting the earth or the tsunami, but rather, greed are the one who will eventually kill us all. Just look at these, it's already happening!


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

I've had the Amway talk before.
Told about the business plan. How 'he knew' I'd be the right person for it. What he *allegedly* gave up to be a distributor. Who his mentors are (the upline) and how much happier he is now.

Get sent 'the package'
Insistence that it was more important to watch D & M Whelans' story / motivational video than product reviews.
They were evening running a seminar (A place to reinforce the brainwashing and tempt the prospectives).
Of course I brought along one of my friends, then took the piss out of it for the whole evening with him.


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## Nikorasu Chan (Sep 13, 2013)

Thomas60 said:


> I've had the Amway talk before.
> Told about the business plan. How 'he knew' I'd be the right person for it. What he *allegedly* gave up to be a distributor. Who his mentors are (the upline) and how much happier he is now.
> 
> Get sent 'the package'
> ...


Yeah, mine goes pretty much the same. He said that I was 'talented' and 'like a diamond in the mud'. Of course, all these words are just to convince me and build confidence in myself, but really, that's just for narcissistic peoples. Everyone ARE talented, it just need some polishing and some nice packaging ^^

Well, I held a meeting with him today and told him that I am not going to join Amway. I can see the frustration in his eyes when he tries to tell me how 'naive' I am and how I am wasting my talents. Nevertheless, I walked away and told him that time will prove that I am right. Well, we are still friend, but he seems like he is frustrated and done with me. It's frightening how Amway can ruin our friendship.


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## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Amway and other pyramid schemes are cults, except instead of convincing you that you'll get eternal salvation if you listen to them, they convince you you'll become rich.

My ex-roommate got involved with a pyramid scheme last year...he and a bunch of other people who worked for the company threw this barbecue and invited tons of people to it (including me and my fiance), under the pretense that it was just a normal summer barbecue. Later on in the night when people started trying to leave since it was late, they kept telling them to "just stay a few more minutes, because we're going to show you a cool video on this projector screen." It turned out to be an hour-long presentation for the pyramid scheme business. It was so awkward LOL. They even had plants in the audience to give the answers they wanted to hear when they did that whole "questioning the audience" thing.

Some people were mad because they felt tricked, but the scary part is that some people actually were convinced by the presentation! My fiance and I never really trusted him after that and it definitely lowered our estimation of him. You have to be pretty fucked up or brainwashed to invite people to a social event under the pretense that you actually want them to hang out and have a good time, when it's really a front for trying to get them involved in your shady business dealings.

Anyway, said roommate was all interested in this pyramid scheme for about a month, then it quietly seemed to go away and he never mentioned it again. So there is hope!


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

Nikorasu Chan said:


> Yeah, mine goes pretty much the same. He said that I was 'talented' and 'like a diamond in the mud'. Of course, all these words are just to convince me and build confidence in myself, but really, that's just for narcissistic peoples. Everyone ARE talented, it just need some polishing and some nice packaging ^^
> 
> Well, I held a meeting with him today and told him that I am not going to join Amway. I can see the frustration in his eyes when he tries to tell me how 'naive' I am and how I am wasting my talents. Nevertheless, I walked away and told him that time will prove that I am right. Well, we are still friend, but he seems like he is frustrated and done with me. It's frightening how Amway can ruin our friendship.


My perspective is that, at its core, it is built upon the efforts of people who earn less than minimum wage, what is the average wage?, changing the pay structure and seeling the dream only encourages peoppe to work for less than they are worth in the hopes of earning more than they worth...basically wannabe extortionists, that, more often than not, are suckers. The suckers make it successful for the ruthless few.

I consider myself competent and empowered enough to make it work, but morally I could not work for them, I also have better opportunities and current goals of intellectual fulfilment v(not money, so my rejectipn wasnt as painful on his part)


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Amway is fine. If you're not interested, tell the guy no thanks and move on. His life and yours will be better without the conflict.


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## EyesOpen (Apr 3, 2013)

The Chameleon said:


> Seriously though, is this happening as frequently as in the past? A lot of stuff seems like it's from the 90-00's.


I hadn't heard about it at all until last week, and I am 29! Lol but friends of mine, a young couple, just mentioned last week that they are joining it or doing it or however you phrase that. He explained it was selling various products such as all natural energy drinks or something. My only thought was "ugh, another friend hounding me to buy shit is in my future".. like all my friends who tried to do Mary Kay or Pure Romance lol 
Well, hopefully they don't get too crazy into it...sounds like you could potentially spend quite a bit of money without much return. :-/


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## Mone (May 22, 2017)

Lots of people misinterpret what Amway really is. Speaking from my experience, nobody forces you to join, nobody forces you to sell anything... You may ignore it, you may just buy the products that you like, you may start creating your own group of buyers and "businessmen"... The creepiest part though are their so called seminars. They are act too possitively which is unpleasant fact itself and great concetration of these people is way creepier.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

the original Ponzi scheme
this has been around since the 80's
run, this dead horse has been beaten to pure dust

p.t. barnum once said ''a sucker is born every minute'' to which I add '' yup and many of them join amway''


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

@Mone

You do know this thread was written in 2014, meaning that you should not be bringing it up, right? It would be profoundly pointless, considering the fact that this thread is most likely long forgotten by the OP, and your advice may not even apply to the OP anymore.

You should probably look at the date before deciding to post next time, especially on the advice column.


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## Thomas60 (Aug 7, 2011)

I'll defend @Mone 's right to necropost this thread. While OP posted thread as 'exit strategy' advice, he also posted his Amway experience, so I argue it's a relevant public interest thread to keep alive and share experiences on, whether or not OPs need for advice has expired.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

The Chameleon said:


> Good on you! Except, I'm kind of confused as to what a "distributor" is in this case.


Amway is pyramid scheme like Herbalife or...gym memberships.


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

Thomas60 said:


> I'll defend @*Mone* 's right to necropost this thread. While OP posted the thread as 'exit strategy' advice, he also posted his Amway experience, so I argue it's a relevant public interest thread to keep alive and share experiences on, whether or not OPs need for advice has expired.


The whole entire point f the forum is mainly to give *advice*, hence the name. In my opinion, it would make no sense to keep a thread alive, simply to share experiences when that technically is not the point of the forum. The point is to give advice(specifically to the OP, which is the case for most threads made here), so it would make no sense to bring up a thread written 4 years ago.

If it was relevant to public interest, then you have expected that 

A. This thread would have gone on for longer,

B. That someone would multiple people would have already made threads similar to this one during sometime this year, and 

C. That this thread would be blowing up right now, like other new threads of public interest have, such as the INTP feminism thread for example.


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