# How to live with a bossy neatfreak ESTJ?



## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

So my grandma came to live with us a few months ago. I love her and all, but honestly, I can't stand her sometimes. She's ALWAYS cleaning. 

She screams at me whenever she sees my room. Yeah, it's a bit messy, but it's MY room. If you don't like it, then don't look at it. Then when I come back from school, I see my room spotless clean and I can't find anything. My bookshelf completely rearranged in alphabetical order. She says she organized it for me, but I don't want it organized. It was fine the way it was. I can't yell at her because I have to "respect my elders" but she's so controlling.. 

If she's living at the house, everything has to be PERFECT. I can't stand it. It's like I can't be myself in my own house. I tried to talk to her, but she doesn't understand. Then she starts criticizing me and saying how no one will ever want to marry me because I can't clean or cook anything and that I should have been born a boy. Gosh, granny it's not 1946 anymore.. 

How can I live with her?


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## OQHeckshire (Dec 20, 2013)

My step-mother does nothing but watch soap operas. For a decade I have held the opinion that her house looks like it is constantly vomiting on itself. Obviously, she got married. Maybe that doesn't really help?
My wife is an ESTJ, and I have survived her for a decade (I'm INFP). Stay strong  I figure I only have 40 or 50 years left to endure. It's all about patience.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

OQHeckshire said:


> My step-mother does nothing but watch soap operas. For a decade I have held the opinion that her house looks like it is constantly vomiting on itself. Obviously, she got married. Maybe that doesn't really help?
> My wife is an ESTJ, and I have survived her for a decade (I'm INFP). Stay strong  I figure I only have 40 or 50 years left to endure. It's all about patience.


I'm not a complete slob, I'm just not the kind to obsess over a speck of dust and some pencils on the floor.. When I say neatfreak, I mean that she thinks everything has to be in its place at all times. I can't even touch anything with her saying "put that back where it was!" Thanks though. roud:


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## kius (Mar 30, 2013)

What kind of coping methods are you looking for? Do you want to stay amicable or are you willing to be aggressive?

My normal route is the peacemaking one where I suck it up and try to adopt their idea or be understanding. Extremely irrational and unyielding behavior tends to have stress behind it, so I sometimes consider myself making a favor to the person by yielding to their needs. I might also detach and make my "home" somewhere else.

But I have little threshold for hurtfulness coming from anyone, so if it's something _I can't live with_, I automatically start crying, and that's the point when anyone with any humaneness gives up.  But, if I stayed coherent enough, I would make a point that they are hurting me, I don't feel well, I don't feel at home and ask them if this is what they want. I would probably preach about psychology. I would ask them why the hell do they care and furiously shoot down every reason until they give up. I would threaten to get a lock and a key on my door. Basically all guns out.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

I'd say she's too old to change her behavior and it's good that she's doing stuff at her age, so try to be submissive in this one. It's very hard to change the opinion and behavior of elder people especially when it is so strong.
If you try to talk to her about it when you are both calm maybe she could understand that it's your private space and she could at least not mess with your books and stuff.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

kius said:


> What kind of coping methods are you looking for? Do you want to stay amicable or are you willing to be aggressive?
> 
> My normal route is the peacemaking one where I suck it up and try to adopt their idea or be understanding. Extremely irrational and unyielding behavior tends to have stress behind it, so I sometimes consider myself making a favor to the person by yielding to their needs. I might also detach and make my "home" somewhere else.
> 
> But I have little threshold for hurtfulness coming from anyone, so if it's something _I can't live with_, I automatically start crying, and that's the point when anyone with any humaneness gives up.  But, if I stayed coherent enough, I would make a point that they are hurting me, I don't feel well, I don't feel at home and ask them if this is what they want. I would probably preach about psychology. I would ask them why the hell do they care and furiously shoot down every reason until they give up. I would threaten to get a lock and a key on my door. Basically all guns out.


I think I wouldn't be agressive.. She's my own grandmother. And crying doesn't work for her. Nope. I hate arguements, but it's hard to tolerate her sometimes.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> I'd say she's too old to change her behavior and it's good that she's doing stuff at her age, so try to be submissive in this one. It's very hard to change the opinion and behavior of elder people especially when it is so strong.
> If you try to talk to her about it when you are both calm maybe she could understand that it's your private space and she could at least not mess with your books and stuff.


Yeah, I guess I'll start with just the books at least. A 94 year old lady is probably not going to change her ways because of what a 18 year old kid says.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

zazara said:


> Yeah, I guess I'll start with just the books at least. A 94 year old lady is probably not going to change her ways because of what a 18 year old kid says.


94!? You should be happy that your grandma still has a sharp mind and the energy to clean. Mine had dementia for 8 years , I watched her fade to a remnant of what she was and she died looking like a skeleton at 93 (almost a year now).


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> 94!? You should be happy that your grandma still has a sharp mind and the energy to clean. Mine had dementia for 8 years , I watched her fade to a remnant of what she was and she died looking like a skeleton at 93 (almost a year now).


Oh yes, she's a strong lady. :happy: She moves furniture nearly everyday to wash the floor! We get along perfectly fine when she's not cleaning, which is pretty rare.. 

I understand what you felt with your grandma though. My dad's mother has dementia. She's 79 and looks like she's withering away to nothing.. it's so sad. :sad:


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## kius (Mar 30, 2013)

zazara said:


> I think I wouldn't be agressive.. She's my own grandmother. And crying doesn't work for her. Nope. I hate arguements, but it's hard to tolerate her sometimes.


Ah, I see... And I see you posted she's 94? Whoa. I assumed 30 years less. Why is she cleaning so feverishly, do you know? Also, what do the others in your family think about it? Have you asked them for advice?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

kius said:


> Ah, I see... And I see you posted she's 94? Whoa. I assumed 30 years less. Why is she cleaning so feverishly, do you know? Also, what do the others in your family think about it? Have you asked them for advice?


I think it's a way to distract her from her own thoughts. She just keeps herself busy. I mean, she used to be a teacher and had 7 kids. Now everyone wants to take care of her and keeps saying she should settle down. She doesn't take any of it. Maybe it's a way to prove to herself that she's still full of life. Which is awesome, but she's just so stubborn that she shoots down any kind of opposing views. It gets annoying at times..


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

Your grandmother sounds exactly like my late mother and she would even piss off my roommates when she came to visit, by cleaning _our_ apartment.

My advice: considering that's she's 94; I would just suck it up. Who knows how much time she has left and since you get along otherwise; you might one day miss her obsessive cleaning. I do think that getting a lock isn't a bad idea, however. Tell, her it's for personal reasons.


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## kius (Mar 30, 2013)

zazara said:


> I think it's a way to distract her from her own thoughts. She just keeps herself busy. I mean, she used to be a teacher and had 7 kids. Now everyone wants to take care of her and keeps saying she should settle down. She doesn't take any of it. Maybe it's a way to prove to herself that she's still full of life. Which is awesome, but she's just so stubborn that she shoots down any kind of opposing views. It gets annoying at times..


Hm. Well, she's a person like any other and even young children need to feel that they are respected and taken seriously. For an elder this is even more important, because they are actually adults. I have an ISFJ grandma, 86, also a neat-freak and a health-fanatic. I smiled to myself when she complained to me how the old man across the street offered to help her axe the firewood and now she does it in secret because she will have none of that silliness.  Maybe your grandma will ease up on the cleaning and be more reasonable in general if people stop trying to take care of her and, instead, give her meaningful things to do? Maybe she also gains energy from being stubborn because giving up would be the same as admitting defeat, that she is not good for any work and her opinions are not to be respected. Also, extroverts need to be up and about anyway! I think I will be just the same... My plan for when I'm old is to fend off any pitying gazes and "helpful hands" for as long as I can.


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

zazara said:


> I think it's a way to distract her from her own thoughts. She just keeps herself busy. I mean, she used to be a teacher and had 7 kids. Now everyone wants to take care of her and keeps saying she should settle down. She doesn't take any of it. Maybe it's a way to prove to herself that she's still full of life. Which is awesome, but she's just so stubborn that she shoots down any kind of opposing views. It gets annoying at times..


maybe try opening a conversation with her. grandma, thanks for caring so much. I know you must love me and want the best for me. ask her about her life, why she feels the need to do things for you, what her hopes are. talk to her a bit about yourself. tell her how you will respect her and what you need.

is she confirmed ESTJ? this could easily be behavior stereotypical of other personality types


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Sorry I didn't even notice I missed some replies! :bored:



TreasureTower said:


> Your grandmother sounds exactly like my late mother and she would even piss off my roommates when she came to visit, by cleaning _our_ apartment.
> 
> My advice: considering that's she's 94; I would just suck it up. Who knows how much time she has left and since you get along otherwise; you might one day miss her obsessive cleaning. I do think that getting a lock isn't a bad idea, however. Tell, her it's for personal reasons.


Yeah, I guess it's for the best. It's not like I absolutely can't survive with her cleaning everything, it just annoys me like crazy sometimes.. I'm definitely not going to get a lock. She would go ballistic!


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

kius said:


> Hm. Well, she's a person like any other and even young children need to feel that they are respected and taken seriously. For an elder this is even more important, because they are actually adults. I have an ISFJ grandma, 86, also a neat-freak and a health-fanatic. I smiled to myself when she complained to me how the old man across the street offered to help her axe the firewood and now she does it in secret because she will have none of that silliness.  Maybe your grandma will ease up on the cleaning and be more reasonable in general if people stop trying to take care of her and, instead, give her meaningful things to do? Maybe she also gains energy from being stubborn because giving up would be the same as admitting defeat, that she is not good for any work and her opinions are not to be respected. Also, extroverts need to be up and about anyway! I think I will be just the same... My plan for when I'm old is to fend off any pitying gazes and "helpful hands" for as long as I can.


That's a good idea! Maybe I'll ask her to teach me how to knit or something.. Who knows? It could be fun.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Tea Path said:


> maybe try opening a conversation with her. grandma, thanks for caring so much. I know you must love me and want the best for me. ask her about her life, why she feels the need to do things for you, what her hopes are. talk to her a bit about yourself. tell her how you will respect her and what you need.
> 
> is she confirmed ESTJ? this could easily be behavior stereotypical of other personality types


That sounds like a nice way to start out a conversation ~ 

Yeah she took the test and everything. I kind of convinced my whole family to do it. :laughing:


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

zazara said:


> That sounds like a nice way to start out a conversation ~
> 
> Yeah she took the test and everything. I kind of convinced my whole family to do it. :laughing:


good luck !


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Thanks!


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## blit (Dec 17, 2010)

Cleaning (and controlling) may be a coping mechanism to compensate for her detritioning health.


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## sanari (Aug 23, 2011)

zazara said:


> So my grandma came to live with us a few months ago. I love her and all, but honestly, I can't stand her sometimes. She's ALWAYS cleaning.
> 
> She screams at me whenever she sees my room. Yeah, it's a bit messy, but it's MY room. If you don't like it, then don't look at it. Then when I come back from school, I see my room spotless clean and I can't find anything. My bookshelf completely rearranged in alphabetical order. She says she organized it for me, but I don't want it organized. It was fine the way it was. I can't yell at her because I have to "respect my elders" but she's so controlling..
> 
> ...


Poor thing. I can really empathize with you because I've experienced the same thing.

I'd say go to Lowes and buy a indoor lock (approximately aisle 13 ^.~), and swap the lock on your door. Lock your room when you leave for school, and your life will be more peaceful.

edit: just read how a lock is a bad idea. Boo.


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## Damagedfinger (Oct 27, 2013)

You're going to have to become a neat-freak like her, I'm sorry the truth hurts.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Guu said:


> Poor thing. I can really empathize with you because I've experienced the same thing.
> 
> I'd say go to Lowes and buy a indoor lock (approximately aisle 13 ^.~), and swap the lock on your door. Lock your room when you leave for school, and your life will be more peaceful.
> 
> edit: just read how a lock is a bad idea. Boo.


Thanks for trying.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Damagedfinger said:


> You're going to have to become a neat-freak like her, I'm sorry the truth hurts.


Yeah, that's not going to happen.


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## Damagedfinger (Oct 27, 2013)

zazara said:


> Yeah, that's not going to happen.



And she's not going to listen, that's exactly why you're going to have to try your best to ignore her remarks.

I know it's hard but if she can't accept it and you can't become the neat-freak she wants you to be then there is nothing to do.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Damagedfinger said:


> And she's not going to listen, that's exactly why you're going to have to try your best to ignore her remarks.
> 
> I know it's hard but if she can't accept it and you can't become the neat-freak she wants you to be then there is nothing to do.


Well I wouldn't say _nothing_. I was hoping we could meet at a middle ground. I could be a little neater and she could lay off the cleaning a bit. There's always a possibility for a deal. roud:


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## Damagedfinger (Oct 27, 2013)

zazara said:


> Well I wouldn't say _nothing_. I was hoping we could meet at a middle ground. I could be a little neater and she could lay off the cleaning a bit. There's always a possibility for a deal. roud:



It's possible.

I have an ESTJ mother -_- she's also a neat-freak.

I have tried my best with her, I find that saying 'yes' to her commands and being much more neat is good enough.

Try your theory out, it could probably work with your grandmother.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Damagedfinger said:


> It's possible.
> 
> I have an ESTJ mother -_- she's also a neat-freak.
> 
> ...


I feel with you.. 

I guess the best thing to do in that situation is to suck it up. :dry:


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## kudi (Sep 27, 2011)

Yeah, I agree that it's not a good idea to try to get her to change. We don't know where her obsessive cleaning stems from and depending on the reason it'd be out of your control, like if its OCD or something she does to relieve stress. 

I think one strategy is to try to get some compromise w/ her or at the minimum getting an understanding between you two. So, open communication to express your feelings with out coming off as critical on her own behavior. Maybe making a connection with her need for cleanness w/ your need for space. Other then that the only thing you can do is suck it up and do stuff that relieves your stress from that situation.


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## Biracial (Sep 8, 2010)

Sounds like she's trying to be useful. On the other hand, maybe you're one of those people who is really dirty and unkept. Do you have roaches?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Biracial said:


> Sounds like she's trying to be useful. On the other hand, maybe you're one of those people who is really dirty and unkept. Do you have roaches?


No, I would relocate if there were. I'm not dirty; I'm comfortable.


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## anon (Oct 19, 2009)

I lived with an ESTJ for a while - I figured out letting them do what they want and in the course of it put your foot on the ground and directly tell them what you prefer and not prefer in your space, but it must be within the scope of just letting them do what they want around the environment. Only in this way could I convey what I preferred and have it acknowledged. Well there's a reason I don't live with an ESTJ anymore xD


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Well if I were in your shoes I would have quickly went ballistic because of my general disdain for people who are overly controlling, obsessive, etc. and I don't really have a problem arguing against elders. Of course, though, this isn't the smart way of going about things.

Probably the best way is to calmly negotiate or to just be patient. Plus you're going to go to college soon. You'll be escaping her grasp very soon!


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

"Why are you sitting playing on your laptop doing nothing? You didn't fold the laundry! You didn't clean your room! You tell me not to clean so go and clean it yourself. I can't believe how you can waste your time like this. Go eat breakfast or you'll get sick. Did you take your vitamins? Why didn't you like the food I made? Why can't you do anything???" 

I'm dying here. :bored:


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

zazara said:


> "Why are you sitting playing on your laptop doing nothing? You didn't fold the laundry! You didn't clean your room! You tell me not to clean so go and clean it yourself. I can't believe how you can waste your time like this. Go eat breakfast or you'll get sick. Did you take your vitamins? Why didn't you like the food I made? Why can't you do anything???"
> 
> I'm dying here. :bored:


Hang in there! Gosh, I live with an ISTJ dad and when I was living at home I would get into a fight with him REALLY often. If I had any relatives who were ESTJ that were living with me I would have caused the biggest civil war in history right in my living room.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

zazara said:


> So my grandma came to live with us a few months ago. I love her and all, but honestly, I can't stand her sometimes. She's ALWAYS cleaning.
> 
> She screams at me whenever she sees my room. Yeah, it's a bit messy, but it's MY room. If you don't like it, then don't look at it. Then when I come back from school, I see my room spotless clean and I can't find anything. My bookshelf completely rearranged in alphabetical order. She says she organized it for me, but I don't want it organized. It was fine the way it was. I can't yell at her because I have to "respect my elders" but she's so controlling..
> 
> ...


Lock your door. Bar the windows!

If you don't have a lock for your door, then put a chair under the doorknob and climb out the window when you want to leave.

Alternatively: You know how she goes into your room and makes it spotless? 

Go into her room and make it messy. roud: 

Or, you could just keep your room cleaner, if you wanna be boring about it.

I had a landlady like that, living in a room in a house. It was awesome. I'd keep my room relatively neat, but maybe I'd forget to make the bed, or I'd have computer stuff out. I'd close the door and when I came home and went into my room, it was like a magical fairy had come in and made everything perfect.

Sure, I had to hunt around to find my wires, 'cause she thought wires were 'ugly', but hey. She never complained, and I'd thank her, apologize, and try harder to keep it clean. I think she even washed my sheets for me a couple of times. :tongue:

Anywho-- Tell her that if she doesn't like it, she's welcome to clean your room for you, but she's not welcome to yell at you.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> Lock your door. Bar the windows!
> 
> If you don't have a lock for your door, then put a chair under the doorknob and climb out the window when you want to leave.
> 
> ...


Honestly, she complains more than she cleans. 

She would come into my room _while I'm in my room_ and start cleaning and complaining very loudly as she does so. "WHAT IS THIS? WHY IS THAT THERE? UGH. LOOK AT THIS. THERE IS A SOCK ON THE GROUND. OH THE HUMANITY. HOW CAN YOU LIVE LIKE THIS???" 

I can't just kick her out or she'd freak out. I keep telling her that I'll do it but she doesn't accept it. It has to be *right now*. 

Happy thoughts.. Just a few more months..


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

zazara said:


> Honestly, she complains more than she cleans.
> 
> She would come into my room _while I'm in my room_ and start cleaning and complaining very loudly as she does so. "WHAT IS THIS? WHY IS THAT THERE? UGH. LOOK AT THIS. THERE IS A SOCK ON THE GROUND. OH THE HUMANITY. HOW CAN YOU LIVE LIKE THIS???"
> 
> ...


And you don't have a lock? Or at least a net to hang above your door? :3


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> And you don't have a lock? Or at least a net to hang above your door? :3


No, I don't think I could ever do that to her. I feel like I'm too respectful of my elders for my own good..


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

zazara said:


> No, I don't think I could ever do that to her. I feel like I'm too respectful of my elders for my own good..


It's your own fault if you don't lock your door.

There's nothing disrespectful about wanting your privacy. Especially if it's causing you that much stress.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> It's your own fault if you don't lock your door.
> 
> There's nothing disrespectful about wanting your privacy. Especially if it's causing you that much stress.


I don't want to hurt her feelings. She's already upset as it is. :crying:
I mean she's 94.. I think deep down I'm afraid of her dying as an angry old lady who hates her granddaughter. I'd feel guilty for the rest of my life.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

zazara said:


> I don't want to hurt her feelings. She's already upset as it is. :crying:
> I mean she's 94.. I think deep down I'm afraid of her dying as an angry old lady who hates her granddaughter. I'd feel guilty for the rest of my life.


Closing your door isn't going to hurt her feelings. From the sound of things, she's pretty tough.

Just do it, and then when you run into her outside of your room, you'll act kind to her, of course. You'll give her hugs. You'll let her know, without saying it directly, that you closing your door isn't personal.

The only way it would hurt her feelings is if you change your attitude towards her directly.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> Closing your door isn't going to hurt her feelings. From the sound of things, she's pretty tough.
> 
> Just do it, and then when you run into her outside of your room, you'll act kind to her, of course. You'll give her hugs. You'll let her know, without saying it directly, that you closing your door isn't personal.
> 
> The only way it would hurt her feelings is if you change your attitude towards her directly.


Eh.. I'll give it a shot I guess.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

zazara said:


> Eh.. I'll give it a shot I guess.


Good. :wink:

You're 18 years old and you're entitled to your privacy, and your own space. Frankly, it's probably more upsetting to her health to fight with you. If the door's closed? Outta sight, outta mind. roud:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Getting lectured by her the minute I come home from a weekend trip.._ SAVE ME.. _ :crying:


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

zazara said:


> Getting lectured by her the minute I come home from a weekend trip.._ SAVE ME.. _ :crying:


Nothing you can do but smile and nod, unless you have the fire in you to fend her off.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

An INTJ. I really empathize with your plight. Just thank your lucky stars its the grandparent and it's 1, versus two healthy ESTJ parents. Diet coke helps, maybe some alcohol. Lot's of Ben & Jerry's. Lay it down with grandma, that your room is off limits, because it's your room. Also look at it from her side,by cleaning, it's more of an act of love from her part. She doesn't want to see the family devolve into chaos. devolving into chaos would be seeing a cluttery house. What if there are important things to your benefit, that are under stuff? That would break her heart. I'm being serious here. Get into a relationship with an ESTJ guy. Their act of love will be seeing you are safe,healthy and prepared for the worst. This may come across as overbearing.

Good Luck. Blog about this, I'd be curious to see how your relationship and experience progresses?


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

zazara said:


> "Why are you sitting playing on your laptop doing nothing? You didn't fold the laundry! You didn't clean your room! You tell me not to clean so go and clean it yourself. I can't believe how you can waste your time like this. Go eat breakfast or you'll get sick. Did you take your vitamins? Why didn't you like the food I made? Why can't you do anything???"
> 
> I'm dying here. :bored:


Hopefully you're going to college soon? This will come in handy as a breather.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Tell her you could care less about cleaning and are leaving it as is. Personally if someone cleaned everything for me, I'd love it. I'm in the process of doing a deep clean on my apartment because the ENTP in me neglected it the past 3 years I've lived there and I plan to move out at the end of April (so might as well try to get a decent start on things and do them casually). 

I say get a lock on the door or just leave things a mess and let her clean it to her heart's desire.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Brian1 said:


> An INTJ. I really empathize with your plight. Just thank your lucky stars its the grandparent and it's 1, versus two healthy ESTJ parents. Diet coke helps, maybe some alcohol. Lot's of Ben & Jerry's. Lay it down with grandma, that your room is off limits, because it's your room. Also look at it from her side,by cleaning, it's more of an act of love from her part. She doesn't want to see the family devolve into chaos. devolving into chaos would be seeing a cluttery house. What if there are important things to your benefit, that are under stuff? That would break her heart. I'm being serious here. Get into a relationship with an ESTJ guy. Their act of love will be seeing you are safe,healthy and prepared for the worst. This may come across as overbearing.
> 
> Good Luck. Blog about this, I'd be curious to see how your relationship and experience progresses?


Hah, I'm fine with my ISFP guy for now, but a little Ben & Jerry's couldn't hurt. Not exactly feeling the love.

I don't think there's any progress. It's just a matter of tolerance and ignorance. 

5 months to go until college.. time seems to be going slower and slower the more I wait!


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

When my great aunt died, we went to the house up in New Hampshire, and we were sitting around the family room, wondering what to do, and my dad takes the initiative, or someone threw out "we could make a list.",and that's when my dad says "a list", with great excitement, tells his brother he can be in charge of this and his other brother could be in charge of that. Long after that event, my brother was in my apartment, recollecting about, talking about how our uncles must of felt being told by our dad what to do.

My brother would crash at my place a lot, letting out steam about living with our dad,work, and I'd listen.


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## Sovereign (Aug 19, 2011)

Appeal to whatever religious tradition / moral-ethical philosophy she espouses and remind her that her standing around criticizing you all the time violates whatever rule you can pull out of your ass. Therefore she is imperfect, and has no standing to criticize. 

Alternatively, simply ignore her existence when she's criticizing you. Don't acknowledge, don't respond, period. More like training a cat, but people tend to get the point. I agree that she deserves latitude for age, but we don't let centenarians kill people or steal things. Why let them make you totally miserable?


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## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

zazara said:


> So my grandma came to live with us a few months ago. I love her and all, but honestly, I can't stand her sometimes. She's ALWAYS cleaning.


Todays youngsters dont know how to appreciate good hygiene.



zazara said:


> She screams at me whenever she sees my room. Yeah, it's a bit messy, but it's MY room. If you don't like it, then don't look at it. Then when I come back from school, I see my room spotless clean and I can't find anything. My bookshelf completely rearranged in alphabetical order. She says she organized it for me, but I don't want it organized. It was fine the way it was. I can't yell at her because I have to "respect my elders" but she's so controlling..


I want to remind you that she's old. It's not so different than being a toddler and you are not mentally or emotionally "equals". Maybe she's trying to feel "still" stronger, sane and motivated" with all those antics... Or... Maybe she's simply trying distract herself to get over with the fear of death. I think you should think twice before perceiving her like your freshman year college roommate. You shouldn't show her respect, she's not your boss. You should show her compassion, because her brain and body is "failing" after all those years. It's painful, frustrating and there's no way to fix it. All she have is the people around her with their positive attitude. Don't be selfish and be nice to her. She's not going to be around for long. Death is "heavier" than your whatever annoyance. If you have a problem with roles, just see her as a human being who needs your understanding.



zazara said:


> If she's living at the house, everything has to be PERFECT. I can't stand it. It's like I can't be myself in my own house. I tried to talk to her, but she doesn't understand. Then she starts criticizing me and saying how no one will ever want to marry me because I can't clean or cook anything and that I should have been born a boy. Gosh, granny it's not 1946 anymore..


Yeah, right... We have servant robots to clean and cook for us. I bet she also hates the flying cars. Seriously, just learn couple of recipes from her for shit and giggles, while she's still alive.



zazara said:


> How can I live with her?


Keep breathing, getting enough calories and drinking water. Rest will be handled by homeostasis.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Yep. Problem solved everyone. No need to reply anymore thanks! :happy:


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## Sabrah (Aug 6, 2013)

Respect your elders
Clean your room

You can live in a messy house when you're on your own later...

Bye.


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## Sabrah (Aug 6, 2013)

My last post was a bit rude, so I'm surprised you thanked it..

Anyway, I want to add that she doesn't do this just to annoy you or purposely make you feel bad. It is her way of showing that she cares about you. If she didn't care, she wouldn't even try. When she cleans or organizes your room, she sees it as a favor or something nice that she did for you (not as an unpleasant surprise). I get the feeling that she cleans all the time because she wants to do something for the family. It is fairly common for Older people to feel like burdens on the family, and this would be especially true for an XSTJ. Also, she might just want something to do or accomplish.

I am an ISTJ and most of my family are NFPs, so it can be difficult to co-exist with them. My room is completely clean and tidy, yet the rest of the house is pretty much messy. When I move out, my ENTIRE house will be clean. (I can't wait. ) Anyway, I will mentally make note of the fact that if I have a Percieving kid, I will be more lenient on their room (as long as it doesn't inconvenience anyone).


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Sabrah said:


> My last post was a bit rude, so I'm surprised you thanked it..
> 
> Anyway, I want to add that she doesn't do this just to annoy you or purposely make you feel bad. It is her way of showing that she cares about you. If she didn't care, she wouldn't even try. When she cleans or organizes your room, she sees it as a favor or something nice that she did for you (not as an unpleasant surprise). I get the feeling that she cleans all the time because she wants to do something for the family. It is fairly common for Older people to feel like burdens on the family, and this would be especially true for an XSTJ. Also, she might just want something to do or accomplish.
> 
> I am an ISTJ and most of my family are NFPs, so it can be difficult to co-exist with them. My room is completely clean and tidy, yet the rest of the house is pretty much messy. When I move out, my ENTIRE house will be clean. (I can't wait. ) Anyway, I will mentally make note of the fact that if I have a Percieving kid, I will be more lenient on their room (as long as it doesn't inconvenience anyone).


Hah no worries, I'm used to the bluntness. I knew you meant well. :happy:

I completely understand what you mean. I had a good conversation with her about all this, that's why I said the problem was solved. Well, kind of. At least we're on the same terms now. 

The thing that bothered me was that she organized everything to the point where I don't know where anything was anymore if that makes sense. Of course I'd love to have a clean house, but I'd want to do it on my own.. if I can stop being distracted and actually get to doing that someday.. Maybe if I put some loud music on while I try to clean it might, _just might_, be fun! :laughing:

Hm.. I guess that I can see how that might be difficult for you. Most of my family are SJs so we're sort of in opposite situations here. Wish you all the best with your NFP family! :tongue:


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