# Hard time forgiving parents?



## Maye (Feb 15, 2015)

The somewhat more philosophical side of my answer.

Forgiveness isn't forgetting. Forgiveness may help you to forget, but its really about not dwelling on your anger so much or not hating people. Its not something that is _easy_ to do. But in another sense it is the easiest thing. 

I think its a confusing topic, and it is not completely clear to me either. Like, why is it necessarily better to try to forgive the family we have, instead of just distancing ourselves from them... I'll be honest, my family isn't anything like what you are describing. But I do still thing that it is best to try to forgive.

For one thing, the context in which we grow up becomes a part of our unique struggles in life. So its very relevant to forgive the people who are hurting you.

The second reason is love, it seems. Not like, you have to have an emotionally close bond or anything. That seems like a lot to expect given your situation and their lack of care for you. But I think love is where people value one another and relate with one another, even despite all the inconvenience. 

It is worth it to forgive and love. Other people with whom we've been close can be the best ones to love (for our own sake as much as theirs). Still, sometimes their lack of care for us makes it so the best way we can do that is by not being there all the time. So I'm not recommending you stay with them, necessarily. I think its better to be away usually. 

Some practical advice...

Some of my realizations was that it was okay to be angry at my parents. I stopped allowing myself to have anything but disdain for certain comments. I reject the demeaning way something was said, even if it is true about me. If you want to forgive them, maybe some practice is forgiving yourself, and that means not beating yourself up the way others do. 

People do not deserve to be forgiven. Forgiveness is in that way illogical, But in another way beautiful, because its choosing the life that no one actually deserves. Choosing the life for yourself and others. Choosing to love even though it hurts. Its against selfishness, and for love. 

I can only imagine how much less incentive you feel to forgive in your situation, so my advice probably skims over it a bit. Hopefully it helps, but if not, I just wish you the best with this.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

"
*Suffering from an accumulation of grief. *
Adult children of alcoholics are frequently depressed. Losses experienced during their childhood were often never grieved for because the alcoholic family doesn’t tolerate intense uncomfortable feelings."


Ha ha, I this is probably more what my problem is...


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

okay this is another reason why I detest my family. None of them will believe that I have a health issue.


I have some kind of a health issue and have not been able to get or find adequate or proper treatment?? when did human rights just get thrown out of the bus here? it's ridiculous? This is just another reason why I have to move all the way to the most progressive part of the country. 

Just to have any proper medical help. I just don't get how people can deny all science, ration and reason and be so prejudiced as this? it's completely ridiculous. oh, I'm just going to ignore all discernible evidence and think whatever ignorant opinion I want *votes Donald Trump* (He says it like it is)

Wasn't George Bush practically the same as Trump? he was hardly any different and was like some giant giggling buffoon who only half-tried to carry on in any dignified way.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Meteoric Shadows said:


> *I am only staying with my one family member for a short while, until I can move to a better part of the country* for my self that is the most progressive since again, society hates the lower classes and I was stuck in a dead-end because I was continually dealing with an untold amount of prejudice.
> 
> Before I left I had a nightmare I was covered in blood. But I had no wounds, blood was just pouring out from every pour of my body and I was covered in it. The blood would just not stop.
> 
> ...


I think you are very strong, because you seem to know how much prejudice you've been dealing with but still managed to set limits for how long you will stay with that same prejudice in the future. That is also very decisive, and directive of you. 

I however, disagree, that you need to move to another part of the country to get away from your family. There are support systems outside you that you could go tell, about the abuse* that you are suffering from (both emotional, psychological & physical abuse). They could help you get most of this sorted. 

Most of what you described about your mother, is criminal (assault, I believe). You could call the police about this if you wanted, but since it's your family, it's best to seek support from social services. They will do something for moving out and finding some form of accommodation. People don't just leave you to fend for your own, although, considering how strong you are, you could most definitely do that. 

I wish I had done this when I was your age, but my family necessarily abandoned me and my sister without much support at all. After years of abuse and neglect. I should have contacted social services earlier, because the psychological toll it takes on you later .. when you don't seek support earlier, can become too much to handle emotionally. The truth is, you don't need to just move out, you need justice as well. This is justice for the wrong that has been committed against you, in comparison to others in your society. 

There is no _shame _in having foster parents (there are others who have them, and they love each other and build each other up very well). Likewise, there is also no impossibility in living by yourself at age 17 or 18, like I said, _I did this. _ . It is possible, and when you move out, you develop independence and can live without suffering or pain. 

But above all else, like I always say to people in trouble here, be true to yourself. Even if you cannot be true to others, be true to yourself. What do you want? What do you think? 

Plus, there are no authorities.. Your mother and father are not authorities, and so aren't anyone else. Your parents were kids once too, who had the same experiences growing up from a young age, were confused for some time, and had to have someone support them through their lives, just like you. They were adolescents who had someone criticizing their every move, and at other times, they tried to care for them, just like you did. So they are no bigger than you, and are just confused kids.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

xraydav said:


> I think you are very strong, because you seem to know how much prejudice you've been dealing with but still managed to set limits for how long you will stay with that same prejudice in the future. That is also very decisive, and directive of you.
> 
> I however, disagree, that you need to move to another part of the country to get away from your family. There are support systems outside you that you could go tell, about the abuse* that you are suffering from (both emotional, psychological & physical abuse). They could help you get most of this sorted.
> 
> ...


Omg, I am not a teenager. 


It's actually becoming a quite a common phenomenon for young people to continually back in with their parents or live with them for a period longer then the age 18 to even age 40 now, but this is mostly due to the fact that the wealth of the world is being concentrated into the hands of a select few while poverty levels still rise across the rest of the world for regular people alike.


I am in my 20s, I left when I was fairly young and I have always been very independent and even hard working (I am a 4w3) but at the same time it has not gotten me anywhere. The amount of intolerance I had experienced where I was living prior was absolutely astounding an beyond comprehension. It has left me in a state of utter disbelief and outrage. I cannot begin to explain the amount of discrimination, and general hate mongering that existed in this place and this is supposed to be freaking Canada here. I tried my hardest, and then I tried again, but I simply could not find a single friend, a decent job, or let alone a place to live. Everywhere I turned there was somebody who was looking to find or have a problem with for reasons that I had not personally done to them. It's completely outrageous. 


Add this this, I have some kind of an actual physical disorder and again due to reasons stated above, have faced nothing but discrimination, judgement and prejudice and hate mongering. I finally came to the conclusion that it's not me, and that places like this are designed to make you fail. It's been so hard to get medical treatment and plus they expect you to wait on such long lists for proper treatment that I will probably have to go to the U.S. and pay for proper medical service my self instead of wasting anymore years of my life or having an undiagnosed health problem that puts me into shitty precarious positions like that where I'm vulnerable and people want to proverbially murder me. 

I experienced police brutality there and many other things, you name it. Just screw all that crap.


You know what else I did out of curiosity? I wrote and posted an "human rights" related topic on different web forums and sites (like reddit) and the once that was Canada specific, you know what the majority said? they don't matter at all, people deserve to simply suffer and die. (more or less along those lines)


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

@*xraydav* 


I appreciate the concern and the support though. I just don't agree with your opinions or whatever. 

It fucking sucks. I have serious sleep apnea or something and it's ruined my entire life. It leaves me with horrendous brain-fog almost every day as well and there's nothing I can do on my own. I was never treated when I was younger because my parents were idiots, and the medical community simply labeled me and again hardly anyone would have anything to do with me. I have been virtually disowned by most people I know or at least labeled as a loser my entire life and treated like a lesser human being.

my life is a train-wreck and I only wish that everyone could see how hard I've tried and how much I care, and yet I have nothing to show for my life. It's just been disappointment forever. There's not even any proper support groups hardly. It's ridiculous. This is obviously on a larger scale, how hate filled the country has become and not only that, but improperly channeling all their resentment and anger into the vulnerable and needy by unseen forces such as the media re-directing it and various other sources. I still can't believe no one in my family will believe me. No one believes me. 

"our feeelings don't matter" lol.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

@Meteoric Shadows 

That's okay but I never said you were a teenager, I know that you are in your 20s. Hence, why I was saying you were so strong, having been a 20 year old and managing despite not having much support from your parents. 

You may not know this, but there may be a reason why others respond the way they do to you. and try to teach you to be 'stronger', even when you are strong already. 



> and there's nothing I can do on my own. I was never treated when I was younger because my parents were idiots, and the medical community simply labeled me and again hardly anyone would have anything to do with me. I have been virtually disowned by most people I know or at least labeled as a loser my entire life and treated like a lesser human being.


It's called being a resilient person. Once you can take so much in your life, that's how you know how to give back to others with it. This is because you've practiced and strengthened yourself like a limb. 



> This is obviously on a larger scale, how hate filled the country has become and not only that, but improperly channeling all their resentment and anger into the vulnerable and needy by unseen forces such as the media re-directing it and various other sources. I still can't believe no one in my family will believe me. No one believes me.


Yeah but by being this person who no one believes, that makes you somewhat unique in comparison to others. You have your own views and your own feelings, and that sense of self is not something others can take. Like that, you have a strong sense of self, as we can see from your accurate attitude and perception toward hatred in your country.



> Add this this, I have some kind of an actual physical disorder and again due to reasons stated above, have faced nothing but discrimination, judgement and prejudice and hate mongering. I finally came to the conclusion that it's not me, and that places like this are designed to make you fail. It's been so hard to get medical treatment and plus they expect you to wait on such long lists for proper treatment that I will probably have to go to the U.S. and pay for proper medical service my self instead of wasting anymore years of my life or having an undiagnosed health problem that puts me into shitty precarious positions like that where I'm vulnerable and people want to proverbially murder me.


That sounds shit buddy. Honestly, that sounds so shit. Like, unbelievably shit. I hate when they make you wait for so long for treatment, because that stuff is a basic need. However, it can be similar where I come from, because of dumb policies set up by dumb politicians. We have no bearing on it.

As a psychology student I feel like I have some form of obligation to transfer some information to you if you want. Which can help with dealing with the psychological toll of any illness. It's a bit like psychoanalysis, and CBT, but you need to be open to the change. It allows for better self-awareness, and individual authenticity. But you have to consent to it, it's a series of questions. Do you want to go through it (might need to do it through PM).


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

xraydav said:


> @*Meteoric Shadows*
> 
> That's okay but I never said you were a teenager, I know that you are in your 20s. Hence, why I was saying you were so strong, having been a 20 year old and managing despite not having much support from your parents.
> 
> ...



I guess....




Did I mention I had some kind of weird PTSD too? I think because I grew up in such a low socio-economic environment, where practically everyone was dysfunctional and only ever talked about "what they did" where any form of thought or curiosity was stifled. I almost can't handle living or being here, it's all just too painful. I think about what it was like when I was younger and how trapped I felt. I lived in an imaginary world, and I couldn't relate to anyone around me and surely if I did try to escape reality all the time I would have probably just turned to drugs and petty vandalism like everyone else. I almost did anyway. 

It's really hard being around me family member sometimes, especially when they still try to act like everything is fine and it's all my fault, or call me names.

I was almost like a mute for years, what are you supposed to talk to people about? 

Even now I have relatively lived my life in isolation. It's kind of hard when you don't have hardly any money to do anything "fun" or to just shop, indulge and buy things, so then you relate to people through school. Well, it's kind of hard to relate to people your age when you're failing at school, and it's kind to concentrate in it when you constantly think that there's not going to be a roof over your head, or you're not eating properly, or everyone thinks you're weird and you have no one to go to who can ever share your thoughts with because they are not capable of understanding anything that is not very simple and rudimentary.


I mean I was re-playing Grand theft auto sand andreas and it takes place in the ghetto and I realized that it was eerily close to how everyone was (sans violent crime) where I grew up. I was so close at one point when I was younger to harmlessly doing meth and stuff because I did not know any better. I guess almost in a way, like my dad literally dying, I feel like I have to grieve over the fact that proverbially my mother sort of has already died to me, or at least for now in some way or another.


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## Roman Empire (Oct 22, 2014)




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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

I don't meant to complain so much, I am very embarrassed. 


It's just that I feel marginalized very much from society and I am dealing with a lot of painful emotions right now that are kind of overwhelming me. This is all very embarrassing to detail in such a way publicly.


I um, think that despite my ego, and whatever intellectual concept and ideas I have of myself as a mature person, (not much) my emotions say otherwise and I am finding them really difficult to deal with. I think that in general, I've somehow been able to go about avoiding things for a while, but it's like everything has come full circle and I seem to be experiencing an overwhelming amount of memories as well as different things here, intellectually and in as well I am finding I am having to re-think everything that I have come to know. 

I mean that's the thing, I've sort of just been surviving forever, dealing with the grind and now I have all this space to myself and it's overwhelming.


One important aspect I think many people and myself forget is that we are emotional beings and I keep struggling with these things. I don't think it's a victim mentality though for example, when I see old things for example, and it makes me remember when I was growing up and how visceral the memories are causes me really deep anguish for some reason. I cannot really explain why. I was smoking cigarettes, and even binge eating a bit and trying to numb myself compulsively, because I find it strangely difficult to deal with things.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

apa said:


>


omg, you did not need to make a video for me


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## Roman Empire (Oct 22, 2014)

Meteoric Shadows said:


> omg, you did not need to make a video for me


I know. But I like to experiment, and try something different.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

apa said:


> I know. But I like to experiment, and try something different.


Nice signature


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## Roman Empire (Oct 22, 2014)

Sensational said:


> Nice signature


Haha. It is because your thread reminded me of a Danish song which about fucking away the pain. So it made me quite goofy, and I thought it could be funny having it as signature, and use it as wisdom, and I know you're a Se-dom, so it would only be a matter of time before you noticed


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I think you have validity in your feelings. 

I had a similar experience a few years back. Sort of like being hit with things I had left behind in my youth. Just alot which came to surface. It sounds like a big part of your deal is facing things which are now resurfacing. 

I would love to tell you there is just a cure. But I do not think the process works like that. And that is what it is a process, and stages. You have to find a fine line between absorbing some of your grief and pain so you can work thru it. But in the same regard be sure not to get lost in purgatory (thats what I am going to call in the sense of explaining this-did not necessarily mean in the relgious sense in itself). 

I think you have to suffer thru this miserable stage your at and let it all hit you and be angry. Its okay to be angry. That is apart of working it out. As I said just do not get lost in purgatory. 

I am not going to get all whimsical and tell you, you have to forgive in a poetic way where you just majestically are not angry about anything anymore. Its more about getting angry and really giving yourself validity in being angry and going thru that process. But then yeah accepting that they obviously are very flawed humans. After you work thru and accept some of your anger. Really examining cause and effect more so from a sociological view point. Its not so much to excuse them. But provide reason. With reason there is usually some understanding. With some understanding there is peace. Its not so much you have to excuse anything but draw from a better understanding here. Use their weaknesses to grow and understand. Often abusive adults were sometimes abused children. And so understanding some of what makes people fundamentally the way they are can help in providing understanding. Its not about magical unicorn forgiveness. Its about seeing cause and effect. In order to make a better system one must evlauate the flaws in the system that existed. But not get stuck in obsessing about the flaws and everything which went wrong or is wrong but rather figuring out the solution for a better system with the insight you get.


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## Maye (Feb 15, 2015)

Another thing I kind of want to add is that for me there's always this sort of fear that I can't forgive, or that it doesn't make sense to try and forgive. 

But I think people want to be happy, and that's what you want, too. And you see that forgiving will make you happier and more fulfilled than anything, so if you can do it, its worth it to. Its the best possible thing you could do, so why _not_ go for it, if you're ready. 

I think it shows some character on your part that you have a desire to forgive them, at least that's what part of you wants.


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

Meteoric Shadows said:


> I was also thinking, I was re-playing Final Fantasy 12 and I realized that the reason everyone hated the main character Vaan is because society generally despises the lower classes. The main character was orphaned from war an his homeland was taken back economically as well and was forced to work meaningful jobs and was regarded as a street urchin despite having the same dreams, goals and ambitions as everyone else.


I don't really hate Vaan myself. He's just not very graceful, though he does have a lot of speed, and he can actually steal things in the plot of the game (his stats are not too bad too, I use him a lot actually in game). As I grow up, I can see his blunders all too well. Plus, I idolize Larsi too much, and well, Balthier, is one sly stone. It's impossible not to be charmed by that bloke. I probably should be more forgiving of Vaan in certain ways. 

Vaan is really kind of cool in a way. He wants and desires to become a sky pirate more than anything... It's an admirable thing, it's just that he doesn't have the chops to do it...until later in the game(he does things that get him the opportunity), he does have more understanding and he does become less naive.

Interesting though, hmmm...spoilers for those who haven't played FFXII
* *




Balthier and Larsi both come from strong families who are highly privileged in certain ways...this could be an Lit Analysis paper...


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Meteoric Shadows said:


> I guess....
> 
> *Did I mention I had some kind of weird PTSD too?* I think because I grew up in such a low socio-economic environment, where practically everyone was dysfunctional and only ever talked about "what they did" where any form of thought or curiosity was stifled. I almost can't handle living or being here, it's all just too painful. I think about what it was like when I was younger and how trapped I felt. I lived in an imaginary world, and I couldn't relate to anyone around me and surely if I did try to escape reality all the time I would have probably just turned to drugs and petty vandalism like everyone else. I almost did anyway.
> 
> ...


I find authenticity is important, and that you are being very authentic with yourself: now, what would you do that you have this 'weird PTSD' thing? What are your plans? I think it will be best, to seek out treatment from a professional (psychologist/psychiatrist), or even a doctor who can refer you or advise you about options. (There has to be other opportunities right?) 

The following is a CBT/psychoanalytic like method, which can help clarify some of the issues you are experiencing and may provide insight into any existing conditions or psychological issues. 

Anyway, I can step you through something, if you want to answer the questions here on in a PM to me, that is your choice; I don't like for individuals to post their answers here, as I believe it may be a bit unethical to put someone's issues out in the open (especially in terms of something as sensitive as abuse), so I strongly recommend you reply to these questions in PM to me. So it's more private. 

1) What is an event (recent or not) that brought up tension or any emotion? (It can be "insignificant", just one that comes to mind - nothing is accidental - and give me details of the situation and be honest -details are like, what happened? to whom? who were they? etc)

2) What emotion did you feel as a result of that? (i.e. anger, also go into detail.)

3) What happened in your thoughts as a result? (this would be like 'i started to try to fix things in my head... etc' - again, be honest, and go into as a much detail as possible)

4) What were the consequences of the event? (i.e. withdrawn behaviors, depression, anxiety, yelled, etc)

5) What did you think you could have done differently if you were to do it again? What did you think you ought to have done? (i.e. I could have been more 'supportive', could have had more structure, etc)


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## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

*You were young. Young people are mostly lazy losers or simply confused at best. It was your parents responsibility to help you about dealing with growing up and they failed for sure. The thing is, facing that you were also somewhat naturally "imperfect", with or without them, as who you were is a good start. You weren't a perfect victim. They just failed to support you when you are extremely needy as somebody who knows nothing at all, obviously after failing to support themselves.

*They are human beings. Being a parent can't suddenly give them magical powers. No matter how special they were from your standpoint, you have to accept that your experiences with them are reflecting human nature beyond personal meanings. Shitty people threat everybody poorly. They are not capable of recognizing and approaching their children differently. After all, they would be already decent individuals in general, if they could do that... At least.

*You don't have love anybody as you don't have to forgive anything. What you have to dissect is the exhausting weight of being right. You already know what happened and why it was wrong. Nothing can change that and you don't have to prove anything to them or others. Right now, you are trying to prove something ridiculous to yourself and it's useless. Just have a diplomatic distance between your past and today. The very essence of hatred is quite similar to the nature of love. We only hate and love the things we care enough to think and feel about them. Calories are expensive, time is priceless and you supposed to have some other "current" things to think and feel. You are unhealthy if you want to "correct them" beyond being disagree. You probably tried to reach them many times as an effort to make them question themselves and it didn't work. Be careful when knocking your skull into the forehead of thickheaded people. You will most likely end up with a thicker head as the result. Then, who's going to reach you when you need a third opinion to question yours?

*Finally, here comes the bitter taste of truth: You have to respect them, including their bullshit, even worse while knowing they are the people who hurt you in past if you will live with them once again. That's how life works when you are an adult. It doesn't matter if they are family, friends, a random stranger, etc. So, that decision should be the last/survival one in your list. After you absolutely tried anything and everything else.


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## tryingtodobetter (Apr 19, 2016)

I can relate to this in a way. Especially the mother being sexist part.

I had to want to forgive them, not really for them, but for myself. I didnt want to walk around with that pain. I had to really dig deep within myself to forgive them. My folks have always made me feel like something is wrong with me and i grew up believing that i needed to be fixed, i hated myself in every way I still struggle with this.

The rationale I used to forgive them is basically convincing myself that they were trying to do their best. I had to sympathize with them and understand their struggles and say to myself its because they don't know any better. Thinking about what may have caused x,y,z to happen gave me a little relief. Im really sorry youre experiencing this.


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