# Using physical characteristics to type someone



## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Lately when I have been browsing some enneagram forums, I have noticed that people are being typed by their outward physical characteristics e.g facial structure, tone of voice, body language, style of clothing etc. The guys who run Enneagram Explorations use this type of system a lot based on extensive research, correlations with outward image and E type. I personally am very sceptical of this kind of typing as the be all end all but I do believe aswell there is an element of truth to it. Do you believe this method to be accurate?


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## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

mushr00m said:


> Lately when I have been browsing some enneagram forums, I have noticed that people are being typed by their outward physical characteristics e.g facial structure, tone of voice, body language, style of clothing etc. The guys who run Enneagram Explorations use this type of system a lot based on extensive research, correlations with outward image and E type. I personally am very sceptical of this kind of typing as the be all end all but I do believe aswell there is an element of truth to it. Do you believe this method to be accurate?


I am very skeptical of that. I would think it's *possible* clothing style could have some enneagram correlation (but not to the point you can accurately type by just a person's style), but no correlation between any of the other things you mentioned.


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## Bumblyjack (Nov 18, 2011)

mushr00m said:


> Lately when I have been browsing some enneagram forums, I have noticed that people are being typed by their outward physical characteristics e.g facial structure, tone of voice, body language, style of clothing etc. The guys who run Enneagram Explorations use this type of system a lot based on extensive research, correlations with outward image and E type. I personally am very sceptical of this kind of typing as the be all end all but I do believe aswell there is an element of truth to it. Do you believe this method to be accurate?


Hmm, you're looking for manifestations of underlying motivations. I think it would be easier to tell based on what they say and do than physical characteristics. Also asking them specific questions helps. When I'm trying to determine someone's type, I usually try to put their behavior into several different enneagram type contexts and see which one(s) seem to fit and which don't. Spotting the instinct variants is much easier for me, especially a dominant sx instinct.

Now, spotting MBTI types is much easier. Cognitive functions have clearer external physical manifestations, but not things like face shape or body type. The best indicator is a person's eyes. The eyes behave differently with the different types of information processing associated with the cognitive functions. There are also some type-related mannerisms, though eyes are the most consistent thing to read. If you're interested, take a look at this post and the included video.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Hahaha, I asked the Fauvres (on the Enneagram Explorations facebook page) about this. I said I was skeptical but curious. David typed me as a Six based on that alone and said that our language is also indicative of type. Oh, and didn't point me to any research. Hah.

(Will elaborate later when less busy).


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## sleepyhead (Nov 14, 2011)

I don't know if I would 100% rely on this in any circumstance, but I do think sometimes clothing and physical characteristics such as stance, mood, physicality when they enter a room (many 8's I know "take up a lot of space" when they enter a room, for example). I find certain 4's easy to type based on physical appearance simply because they have such a similar look and habits to someone i know. 

I would always need to actually converse with someone for a while before I would ever take a solid guess on their type. And I stress the world "guess".


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Photo-typing is the dumbest shit imaginable. Any credibility I saw in the Fauvre's works has diminished greatly since I realized that they type people based on their physical features. It's preposterous, utterly and completely illogical. Oh yeah, look at so and so's 'arched' eye brows. That's a type 6 right there (and who cares the woman spent a pretty penny on getting the eyebrows shaped just so). Give me a fuckin break. As for body language, it can provide some clues, but in no way is it an objective and accurate indicator of type by itself (and in combination with 'facial features' and 'vibes'). Anyone who thinks otherwise is incredibly presumptuous, largely ignorant and misguided. 

Here's something the Fauvre's posted on their fb page:
http://pinterest.com/enneagram/enneagram-type-5/

Body type, brow bones, strong foreheads as indicators of type? :laughinglease.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

I was wondering if someone else would bring this up.

I am of two minds about it myself. First, I will say that after giving it some thought, I think there's definitely something to it. I think body language and mannerisms are important, and who knows--maybe certain features to correlate to certain personality characteristics, even E-type. I really don't have the information to know that, but I'd like to keep an open mind.

That said, my first instinct, at least in the case of the Fauvres' work, was that this crossed some sort of line. Judging E-type, and hence personality, by physical appearance alone seems to me to be a slippery slope. It could easily cross over into the territory of experiments run in the late 1800s and early 1900s--like judging which race was "more evolved" by counting the number of beans that would fill the skull, or finding a "criminal type" by superimposing the images of all the prisoners on top of each other. That was my first instinct.

Also worth noting that, according to my untrained eye, I look for all the world like a 5 according to the Fauvres' images. I do claim a strong connection to 5, but everyone seems to agree that it's not my core type. So, like I said, maybe there is a correlation between certain features and certain personality traits, but facial features are not and should not become the be-all end-all of who and what you are. 

I'll also say this about the Fauvres' work: They've been doing it a long time, and have interviewed thousands upon thousands of people. It's entirely possible in my mind that they truly have developed a real intuition as to what type someone is just by observing for even a few seconds. I don't know how readily that can be transmitted, though...surely a few hard-and-fast rules for the public are not likely to make us all instant E-typers.

I'd actually be willing to explore this in more depth, but unfortunately they charge more than I will ever be able to afford on my third world salary. I'd be interested to hear from someone who has attended any of the Fauvres' workshops.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

The whole thing is the farthest thing from 'scientifically validated' as they like to claim. In fact, the phototyping crap (which is an important part of their typing process, btw) is very similar to Chinese face reading. And, connecting generic descriptors with physical features (and broader, unfounded, cultural stereotypes [deep gaze=intelligence=type 5]) in order to arrive at something as complex and nuanced as type is patently ridiculous. As I was saying,Fauvres claim that 8s have stocky frames etc and confident 'animalistic' gazes. I get the confident, 'animalistic' part from the typical Enneagram description. The rest is just a commonly held association between a masculine body structure and a stereotypically "masculine" type. The 6s have doubting eyes (right, 'doubting' from 6 descriptions..eyes from well..eyes). It's something a 15 year old could easily come up with after browsing a few descriptions online. Only because they've interviewed a thousand people doesn't mean that the correlations they've unearthed would even stand the test of plain ol' common sense (let alone 'scientific testing'). So, @holyrockthrower, don't feel for a second that you're missing out because you can't afford a session yet. A close friend from Perc had a meeting with Katherine, and it seems like they'll get more out of reading Maitri and Naranjo than they did..with the Fauvres. FWIW, Katherine couldn't tell what type my friend was, and asked for a pic. Hmm. Colour me unimpressed. 

I always recommend reading earlier Enneagram authors.  I could PM you some book suggestions. Getting Naranjo's Character and Neurosis is, not only cheaper, but more helpful than a meeting with the Fauvres'.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

There may be something to getting a vague impression of someone's enneatype based on appearance. But I think you're more likely to see mbti characteristics and do generalized deductions based on that info- which may sometimes be right, but often wrong.

(eg, the actress in twilight Fauvres type as a four due to her eyes, but I watched a couple interviews of her and based on what she talked about she seemed pretty six-ish to me.)


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Alright, I'm back with the details! Here is the conversation:

Me:


> How deeply have you studied the correlation between facial features and type? I'm quite skeptical of this, but I'm curious about your findings.





> Also, what type/tritype do I look like? =P


David:


> Type was original determined by Ichazo from facial features. We have studied it and integrated other research, like Paul Eckmans, etc, for over 20 years. As to your type, I would like to see more pictures and larger. You language use is pure 6 so I am going to take the bait and suggest you are a 6 or have 6 in your Tritype. //David


Me:
_*Shows 3 pictures of myself*_


> Any ideas? Not enough data?


David:


> We generally charge to do this. Beyond the comments I made early, you would need to book a coaching session or attend a training where we do this with each person by putting their photos up on a screen. As I said, your language use is type 6 and your raised eyebrows and smile are also 6 traits, so if you are not a 6, you likely have it in your Tritype //David





> You look like a 6...and few other types will actually write out "I'm quite skeptical of this, but I'm curious". We all look like and use language like our Type. //David


The reason I even brought it up in the first place is because they started posting pictures of *Barbie dolls* and typing them! I think I literally "WTF"ed out loud.

Also, I would _love_ to see someone MBTI me based on behaviour. Hahahaha.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

@Spades, one thing- in all honesty, I never use the word skeptical but I do say curious often. I can see a link between language and type. This isn't to say that anyone who uses the word skeptical is automatically a six, but maybe the whole chain of conversation would be an indication. How would I phrase it to David? Hmm. 

”It seems odd to me you could type a Barbie, let alone people, based on facial characteristics. I would think you'd have to dig a little deeper into someone's psyche to fully grasp their enneatype. Could you explain to me how this works? I'm curious....”

I wonder what David would get out of that...


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

brainheart said:


> @_Spades_ , one thing- in all honesty, I never use the word skeptical but I do say curious often. I can see a link between language and type. This isn't to say that anyone who uses the word skeptical is automatically a six, but maybe the whole chain of conversation would be an indication. How would I phrase it to David? Hmm.
> 
> ”It seems odd to me you could type a Barbie, let alone people, based on facial characteristics. I would think you'd have to dig a little deeper into someone's psyche to fully grasp their enneatype. Could you explain to me how this works? I'm curious....”
> 
> I wonder what David would get out of that...


I'm curious too! Heh XD Let's see if he types you as a Six too =P. I'm of the strong opinion that language is *nurture* and not nature (though I don't have linguistics background to back this up..). I don't think I used the word "skeptical" before going into a science program at university. I think after 5 years, my entire vocabulary has changed because of my program actually. Furthermore, I'm not a person of language, I wasn't even able to think in words until university.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

Spades said:


> I'm curious too! Heh XD Let's see if he types you as a Six too =P. I'm of the *strong* opinion that language is *nurture* and not nature (though I don't have linguistics background to back this up..). I don't think I used the word "skeptical" before going into a science program at university. I think after 5 years, my entire vocabulary has changed because of my program actually. Furthermore, I'm not a person of language, I wasn't even able to think in words until university.


I would think language is a bit of both. I'm more of an image thinker as well, so when I use words I don't feel like they express my inner impressions all that well. Also, I was raised in a very verbally proper family (and I read a lot) so I feel like my words give me way more of an intellectual/ formal aura than who I am. For those reasons (among others), snap judgments on people seem very prone to error.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Spades said:


> The reason I even brought it up in the first place is because they started posting pictures of *Barbie dolls* and typing them! I think I literally "WTF"ed out loud.
> 
> Also, I would _love_ to see someone MBTI me based on behaviour. Hahahaha.


Yeah, I saw that too. How rediculous. I thought it was some kind of piss-take. Yeah, they charge but then don't actually tell you what they think your type is, they say like to guide people into choosing their type. Thats what they say they do. But they swear by this typing method. This phototyping does little justice to the system. Its like cold reading. 
@_Boss_ 
Naranjo's Character and Neurosis. I've heard some really good stuff about this book. Defo on my wish list!


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## Bumblyjack (Nov 18, 2011)

Spades said:


> Also, I would _love_ to see someone MBTI me based on behaviour. Hahahaha.


On behavior? No way. Too many things are behind behavior, your entire personality influences that. However, based on watching you talk someone might be able to get a pretty good idea of your MBTI type. Not within 95% confidence or anything but if they know what they're doing they can probably properly identify at least one or two of your conscious cognitive functions. That narrows it down a bit.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

@Boss I'm not in any danger of being misled into something dumb. All I'm saying is, I want to explore it for myself before giving my own personal verdict. I already told you how I _feel _about it--the same as everyone else on this thread. I personally resist thinking anything is that cut-and-paste, especially since people have so many layers of complexity. But I'd like to hear the Fauvres' out and why they think they've got this new way of assessing type, how they came to these conclusions, what the "fail rate" is, if it's really as simplistic as they're presenting it on Facebook, etc. I'm very curious, although it will probably never happen, and that's not big a deal to me. 

I started off reading Riso and Hudson's publications, and some stuff by Helen Palmer. Maybe a couple of others. If I ever see a copy of Naranjo in my corner of the world, I'll be sure to pick it up.

@Spades I think you are right that language is nurture, not nature. I know for a fact that I pick up general speech patterns from other people--catchphrases, sayings, certain expressions, etc. I've always thought in words, and I promise you, my thoughts have their own pattern, not an e-type pattern.

Maybe types do use similar words and language to describe themselves--that wouldn't surprise me. How else would we see ourselves in the descriptions? Maybe even in longer transmissions of thought--how else would we know what types others could be if they didn't communicate? But I doubt types use "buzzwords" in daily speech all the time. I find it annoying on some other message boards (which shall remain nameless) how people are always (re)typed according to what they write in their posts, and so I've learned to make a special point not to use any "buzzwords". But it's retarded that I would even feel that way, and I don't really support the idea that we're all speaking 9 versions of our native tongue.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@holyrockthrower 
I am not trying to suggest that you're in danger of falling into something dumb. I know full well that you can think for yourself, and reach your own conclusions. What I am saying is that I find the Fauvres' methods frivolous and useless, and more importantly, you're not missing on anything worth your time if you haven't been able to book a session with them. 

@Spades, I've had that talk with David. Same answers, though I didn't send him pictures. He thought my 'language' was 8ish. The whole thing is annoying because I have seen completely 'untrained' folk online who haven't read anything worthwhile Enneagram related do the exact same thing. Oh..your "writing style" is very 2-ish, and your eyes have this 2-ish warmth + you give off this 'vibe'. Give me a damn break. Why would anyone waste time and money on a 'session', when you can get similar 'help' on a random personality forum by creating a thread and posting a picture (free of cost). 

Overall, language is a very important point. A humanities/social science vs. a pharmaceutical science education, for example, would have a major impact on how you speak. I remember I was at this conference, and an Existential Psychology professor corrected a Bio med student on his use of the word "mentally retarded". A lot of social science students were flabbergasted. To be honest, before I underwent empathy training and other forms of training related to interpersonal interactions as a part of my education and work/volunteer experience, I used a lot of terms that were not very 'socially acceptable'/ sensitive. And, ffs, an education is meant to teach you to be skeptical, a science education even moreso. 

I have seen people type others as a 6 because of the number of times the word 'anxiety' was used in their post or a 3 because of 
'success'. When so-called "Enneagram Coaches" start to type people via buzzword 'analysis', you know it's a load of bullshit. And he has the nerve to say that he conducts such 'analyses' for a fee. lofl. right. I think I should drop my J.D./MBA plans, and become a professional Enneagram 'typer' instead, since all you need is a picture and 'writing style' to arrive at someone's 'type'. I'll charge half the Fauvres' fee, and snatch all their clients. :wink:


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Boss said:


> @holyrockthrower What I am saying is that I find the Fauvres' methods frivolous and useless, and more importantly, you're not missing on anything worth your time if you haven't been able to book a session with them.


Lol, I know. But I'll be the judge of that!!




> Overall, language is a very important point. A humanities/social science vs. a pharmaceutical science education, for example, would have a major impact on how you speak. I remember I was at this conference, and an Existential Psychology professor corrected a Bio med student on his use of the word "mentally retarded". A lot of social science students were flabbergasted. To be honest, before I underwent empathy training and other forms of training related to interpersonal interactions as a part of my education and work/volunteer experience, I used a lot of terms that were not very 'socially acceptable'/ sensitive. And, ffs, an education is meant to teach you to be skeptical, a science education even moreso.


Thanks for making the point I didn't work into my last post. My entire (humanities-oriented) education has taught me to use language like "I doubt this..." and "I can't support that...", "I'm skeptical of...", "I suspect...", "We cannot be certain..." etc. Six-sounding language perhaps, but acquired wholly through listening to others who use that language in an academic setting. I acquired a lot of what might be considered "seven-speak" from administering games to small children in China for 6 months.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

holyrockthrower said:


> But I'll be the judge of that!!


Ha!Now, you're going all counter phobic on my ass :laughing: :wink: 





holyrockthrower said:


> Thanks for making the point I didn't work into my last post. My entire (humanities-oriented) education has taught me to use language like "I doubt this..." and "I can't support that...", "I'm skeptical of...", "I suspect...", "We cannot be certain..." etc. Six-sounding language perhaps, but acquired wholly through listening to others who use that language in an academic setting. I acquired a lot of what might be considered "seven-speak" from administering games to small children in China for 6 months.


Excellent point. In academia, you're trained to think critically and a healthy skepticism is very much a part of that. In my first year, I'd write sentences like "That's not true/It's obvious so and so is mistaken." lol. A prof. promptly corrected me and emphasized that I had better express myself in the manner of "I doubt the veracity of so and so's claims...". It's conventional academic writing. It's bound to affect your verbal expressions, especially in professional settings. As much as I'd love to say, "That's bullshit", it just so happens that...it's more effective to say something like "I am skeptical of that ...".

I wonder what staying in Asia for the past few months has done to my linguistic expression. As you may know, in a collectivist society, it's common to refer to random people as brother/sister. It's very interesting because I went out to buy some sweets, and I, unintentionally, referred to the guy at the counter, as 'brother'. I hadn't done that in a while. I guess..this community-oriented language use is rather 2-ish or social 6. I wish David and Katherine (lofl I was about to type Fauvrine damn, I need sleep) were observing my word choice. I'd love to hear what they think.


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## Vexilla Regis (May 4, 2011)

I am trying in earnest to learn the MBTI, and have to say, phototyping is garbage. Someone typed me totally wrong, just because of the direction of my eyes in that particular photo. 

Using our language to type us doesn't seem very intelligent to me. I believe our language is a direct reflection of our intelligence and how well read we are, but, in all honesty, how does this relate to our personality. Other than a few odds and ends, for example: Some of us do as we should and some of us do as we wish.

Therefore, if a said person uses the word, "should" they are "this" or "that" type.

And, me for example: Two people who have known me well for a very long time have typed me as ENTP. I haven't given this any serious consideration, because I am short and in need of a trip to Weight Watchers. The stereotypical ENTP, according to another website is tall and thin.


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