# Ni usage during conversations



## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

Benja said:


> So maybe it's not useful to look for Ni, or any introverted function, in someone other than yourself.
> 
> Maybe all typing of others should be based on peoples observed extroverted function preferences and their I/E tendencies.
> 
> You can really only guess what is going on in someone's head.


that's what i think... unless you were to ask them of course, lol. 

as soon as i think i have a way of looking at it, i realize that there's still always a variable, and the guesses become thoughts about thoughts that are "proven" indirectly on what amounts to "thoughts about thoughts" (like real-life sudoku). 

but yeah, hearing the person's own personal take and motivations will always be the more sure way to go.. although it can take the fun out of it, and most people will usually, at best, just think you're a little odd for asking.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

LiquidLight said:


> Listen to Ross Jeffries or Malcolm Gladwell. Living picture of Ni-Te.


You mean, the Malcom Gladwell that wrote about "redshirting" in relation to when kids are born and joining sports teams or getting ahead in Kindergarten?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

magi83 said:


> In terms of how Ni interacts with the thinking functions of INTJ/INFJs - would I be correct in suggesting that Te is more pragmatic and will tend to focus on communicating only that information that is required in order to achieve the desired objective whereas Ni/Ti is more likely to seek precision to express exactly what has been perceived through Ni?
> 
> So an INTJ might think "this is how I need to express this idea for Bob to understand and implement it". While their description is also likely to focus on accuracy, they will generally be better at cutting away extraneous detail.
> 
> An INFJ will be more internally focused on how to accurately verbalize the idea. And once they have, Fe will make a judgement as to how the idea is likely to be received.


Nah, this can be anyone. And really, who tells people an idea so that the other person can implement it - I would think the person doing the talking would be the one who would want to implement it. Te and Ti actually do the exact same things, but in different ways (Jung said so). Concern about reception is largely circumstantial as well - I mean, someone who represses feeling enough in themselves might have a tendency to not weigh the potential impact on others of opening their mouth (common inferior Fe thing), but I don't think this would be relevant to type for the most part.


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## openmode (Oct 25, 2012)

My family thinks I'm crazy for my essentially experiencing the same thing.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Benja said:


> I wanted to talk a bit about dominant Ni and it's effect on face to face conversations, any relevant thoughts, articles, and/or descriptions of first hand experiences would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> It seems to me that I have difficulty accessing my preferred Ni in the heat of a conversation and end up tripping all over my words while I'm speaking. It's almost like I can't think at all in extreme situations, with all the sensory information bombarding me. It also seems like I tend to get startled out of a Ni state by people fairly frequently, my dad always bursts into my room while I'm in mid thought, shocks me out of Ni, and spews out some random story. It takes me awhile to catch up with what the hell is going on, let alone respond intelligently.
> 
> ...




I'm wondering if it has more to do with being startled than it does with your Ni dom. Just about anyone can become flustered when they're startled.


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## Benja (Jan 26, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I'm wondering if it has more to do with being startled than it does with your Ni dom. Just about anyone can become flustered when they're startled.


I think there is more to it than that.

"Sensation disturbs intuition's clear, unbiassed, naive awareness with its importunate sensuous stimuli; for these direct the glance upon the physical superficies, hence upon the very things round and beyond which intuition tries to peer. But since intuition, in the extraverted attitude, has a prevailingly objective orientation, it actually comes very near to sensation; indeed, the expectant attitude towards outer objects may, with almost equal probability, avail itself of sensation. Hence, for intuition really to become paramount, sensation must to a large extent be suppressed." - C.G. Jung on Intuition


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Benja said:


> I think there is more to it than that.
> 
> "Sensation disturbs intuition's clear, unbiassed, naive awareness with its importunate sensuous stimuli; for these direct the glance upon the physical superficies, hence upon the very things round and beyond which intuition tries to peer. But since* intuition*, in the* extraverted attitude*, has a prevailingly objective orientation, it actually comes very near to sensation; indeed, the expectant attitude towards outer objects may, with almost equal probability, avail itself of sensation. Hence, for intuition really to become paramount, sensation must to a large extent be suppressed." - C.G. Jung on Intuition


That would seem to me to describe the basis for Ne, not Ni. 

If I understand you correctly, your reasoning goes something like this: 

If you are Ni dom, then, according to the above paragraph, you are effectively "sensory blinded" by being startled, or whenever you feel forced into an interaction before you've had adequate time to process it.

If that's what you mean, then the answer should be found in your auxilliary function. Sorry if you already know this, but, if your dom is introverted, then your aux is extraverted. Your aux always backs up your dom. 

Isabela Briggs-Myers used the analogy between dom and aux as a General and his trusty Aide. In the case of an introvert, the General is in his tent. Visitors who want to see the general have to go through the Aide first. The Aide decides whether the issue is important enough for the General's attention. In the case of an extravert, visitors get into see the General first, and the Aide is there to assist the General in whatever business is at hand. 

Hope that helps.


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## Northwind (Jul 24, 2012)

I can relate to the initial post and I have compared expressing myself to translation (which is my profession, I'm a translator). I always feel I somehow need to translate whatever info my Ni hands me into understandable language. And a lot is lost in translation.

There's an hour long interview with Jung on YouTube in which he actually says that if Ni doms would really say what is actually on their mind in the extact way it is on their mind, people would think they're nuts 

Therefor communicating often feels to me like I'm constantly shifting gears. Manually!

I understand how people prefer to communicate in general. I understand the rules of the game. Just not fond of the game.

*sighs*

Good thread, btw!


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> You mean, the Malcom Gladwell that wrote about "redshirting" in relation to when kids are born and joining sports teams or getting ahead in Kindergarten?


Oh, tell me more about this? Or is the info worth knowing?


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Northwind said:


> I can relate to the initial post and I have compared expressing myself to translation (which is my profession, I'm a translator). I always feel I somehow need to translate whatever info my Ni hands me into understandable language. And a lot is lost in translation.
> 
> There's an hour long interview with Jung on YouTube in which he actually says that if Ni doms would really say what is actually on their mind in the extact way it is on their mind, people would think they're nuts


This could be why Jung didn't come out and say what his real preference was, instead gave a puzzle to figure out 
People thought he was crazy enough as is.

I like to give people a rough draft or outline of Ni by Ti sometimes, Fe translations is boring sometimes. Of course leads me usually of breaking down or dissecting my own words.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

myjazz said:


> This could be why Jung didn't come out and say what his real preference was, instead gave a puzzle to figure out
> People thought he was crazy enough as is.
> 
> I like to give people a rough draft or outline of Ni by Ti sometimes, Fe translations is boring sometimes. Of course leads me usually of breaking down or dissecting my own words.


Think I'm crazy yet?


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

LXPilot said:


> Think I'm crazy yet?


Crazy ?!?!?! you mean that is not normal...of course slight difference with Ti backing it


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> That would seem to me to describe the basis for Ne, not Ni.
> 
> If I understand you correctly, your reasoning goes something like this:
> 
> ...


I understand where you coming from with this, To me to take away being startled in the cause of Ni due to what ever Extroverted function is to be cause. Doesn't really add up to me, Since Ni can and does also subdue to outward perception also. The difference is an Introverted one takes it in "Introvertedlly" or "subjectively" the startling process is do to an indulgence in the introverted function. In this case we are speaking of Ni an Introverted perceiving function, so when and sudden burst especially of an perception one erupts Ni when it is purely being focused on can and will be like a sudden shock or startle. Unlike Ne which is based on perceiving Extroverted would be less likely and maybe not often at all. To be thrown into a startling state since it is already outward to begin with. Would be like with Ni at a haunted house not really focusing or even forgetting that was at an haunted house , Then all of suddenly something jumps out of you scaring the crap out of you. 
Also since for INFJ the extroverted function is Fe and INTJ it is Te, how would this really play in the role in your scenario in the OP topic? Another words how would Fe or Te be the cause of this?


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## nameused (Dec 4, 2012)

I identified an INTJ the other day due to the discussion about inferior Se. I had been perplexed for a while as to whether he was an INTP or INTJ. 

Perhaps you've read this humorous INTP description online before, and I thought it perfectly described the man I'm speaking of: 


*'INTP*: The Egghead
The typical INTP is a logical, abstract thinker whose intellect is ideally suited to understanding pure mathematics, linguistics, formal logic theory, and other pursuits unsuited to making a real living. The INTP can often understand even the most subtle nuances of lattice quantum chromodynamics, but cannot perform more concrete tasks such as dressing himself, operating a motor vehicle, or opening a door. An INTP may be able to tell you how to construct a nuclear reactor from a coconut and two pieces of string, but may be completely incapable of fixing a hole in a boat.'


(I apologize for the weird colors; I copied and pasted but don't know how to change the color)

Anyway, I had noticed the eyebrow thing that people speak of in INTJ's; I just never put it together with inferior Se. I frequently see in this person exaggerated, deliberate use of facial expression.


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## Benja (Jan 26, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> That would seem to me to describe the basis for Ne, not Ni.
> 
> If I understand you correctly, your reasoning goes something like this:
> 
> ...


I see what happened, I forgot that sensation could also mean Si. The quote is from his section on intuition in general though and does apply to Ni, except where he qualifies it with extroverted.

I understand the role of the auxiliary.

I simply 'believe' that there is a difference when startling a person while they are using an introverted function from startling them while they're using an extroverted one and have been searching to see if there was any consensus on this.

This may lie in the fact that by startling an introvert you automatically force them into their non-dominant, outwardly focused functions, functions that they use less and are less comfortable with. 
Startling an extrovert would put them into their outwardly focused dominant and most comfortable function.

Hope that helps.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Ni during conversations is not really going to be that easy to notice - I think it kind of takes form as a symbolic set of assumptions in how it manifests at the purest level - you can tell it's branching off of some kind of haphazardly constructed sensations, although you only get very vague ideas of what these sense-considerations might be through Ni, which tries to


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Benja said:


> I see what happened, I forgot that sensation could also mean Si. The quote is from his section on intuition in general though and does apply to Ni, except where he qualifies it with extroverted.
> 
> I understand the role of the auxiliary.
> 
> ...


Sure, and thanks for clarifying. Yes, being jolted out of your "comfort zone" is probably disconcerting to say the least.

I can relate completely. I have ADHD. What a lot of people do not realize about the condition is that when people like me do find somthing we can focus on, we tend to hyperfocus on it. Any disruption at all can completely shatter that "zone" and my younger self used to get pissed when it happened. I have since learned that interruptions are a normal part of life, and I must learn to handle them (or risk alienating everybody I love and care about).

Now I am thinking about what one could do if one wanted to train themselves to handle this 'jolt' more gracefully.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

myjazz said:


> I understand where you coming from with this, To me to take away being startled in the cause of Ni due to what ever Extroverted function is to be cause. Doesn't really add up to me, Since Ni can and does also subdue to outward perception also. The difference is an Introverted one takes it in "Introvertedlly" or "subjectively" the startling process is do to an indulgence in the introverted function. In this case we are speaking of Ni an Introverted perceiving function, so when and sudden burst especially of an perception one erupts Ni when it is purely being focused on can and will be like a sudden shock or startle. Unlike Ne which is based on perceiving Extroverted would be less likely and maybe not often at all. To be thrown into a startling state since it is already outward to begin with. Would be like with Ni at a haunted house not really focusing or even forgetting that was at an haunted house , Then all of suddenly something jumps out of you scaring the crap out of you.
> Also since for INFJ the extroverted function is Fe and INTJ it is Te, how would this really play in the role in your scenario in the OP topic? Another words how would Fe or Te be the cause of this?


_I do not know if I know enough to explain this one. Let me do some more research and get back to you on it. 
_
I have been thinking about this. I don't think functions are the cause of anything. The cause is external stimuli. One's reaction to that stimuli is the effect. 

Te is not likely to be caught so flat-footed. 

I'm starting to think that Fe might be a more likely consideration, here's why: 
Usually find it hard to know where to start a statement or in what order to present what they have to say. May therefore ramble and repeat themselves, with more detail than a thinker wants or thinks necessary.​http://www.russellrowe.com/Myers-Briggs Typology System.htm


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## Lady Lullaby (Jun 7, 2010)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Ni during conversations is not really going to be that easy to notice - I think it kind of takes form as a symbolic set of assumptions in how it manifests at the purest level - you can tell it's branching off of some kind of haphazardly constructed sensations, although you only get very vague ideas of what these sense-considerations might be through Ni, which tries to


I bet you could notice it in this interaction video with another Ni-user...We discuss enneagram but the path of our conversation is soo meandering, I feel Ni meanders :tongue:


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## Elyasis (Jan 4, 2012)

nameused said:


> (I apologize for the weird colors; I copied and pasted but don't know how to change the color)


Paste as plain text.

Mind, you can't do that with ctrl+v. Have to actually right click.




LXPilot said:


> Think I'm crazy yet?



No. 
Fluorescent>Light>Effulgent>Nature of Good and Evil.


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