# INTP/INTJ -LII/ILI Need help...



## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

I would be surprised if anyone would really read everything I wrote because It's alot, and I realize you must have some more interesting things to do, but I hope some of those who know more than me about it will take this as a challenge.
(I'm sorry, english is my second language and sometimes I make mistakes)

INTPs, INTJs/ ILI(INTp)s, LII(INTj)s, I would like to know if you relate to any 
of the things I've shared. 

Hello, I'm new and this might seem bold, but I really need the opinions of those who have better knowledge of this. First time I came across a MBTI test was about 1 months and a half ago, and I mostly tested as an INTP. INTJ would be the second type that would fet me somewhat. I am analytical, very intuitive, very strong sense of independence and justice(which are mostly INTP traits), but also sense of duty, very responsible on matters that are important for me and my family, I always put work before playing(while in school I litterally couldnt sleep at night if I didn't do all my homeworks that day, despite the fact that I would go to school at 12:00am and I never slept over 08:30am), and even if I'm usually being very disorganised and my desk or closet are almost always messy, I appreciate order. If I don't do what I think I should do, that makes me feel extremely restless, almost guilty, and although I tend to procrastinate stuff that I need to do, I never do it with things that are important and that need to be taken seriously. When I find myself immersed in something that interests me(like a book, or a movie) I forget of my existence, forget about eating(I'm a tall and very thin girl, 1.75m and 49-50kg) or sleeping(I never liked sleeping, I sleep very little, feel restless and feel like I'm missing things when I'm sleeping, I also have huge permanent eye shadows/bags because of sleep deprivation).

I hate small talk(I have this friend who I believe he's a ESFP and everytime he calls he just tells me what he's done that day, when he woke up, what he ate and stuff and the he asks me the same things and that gets me so boring, well actually I don't have any friends, I was in a relationship with this guy, and after I dumped him we agreed on being friends), I don't like to socialize with people, because most of them don't even understand what I'm trying to say, and I usually don't bother to say or explain much, but I get very passionate over a subject that's interesting to me and I can go on for hours about that. 
I'm a very open minded person, also very objective in almost any matter, most of the times unconventional in my approach of solving a problem/doing something. Although one of the most valuable things for me is freedom, I usually stick to conventional ways/behavior in places like work/school, as long as their rules get along with mines. I always stand by my opinion, even if all the other 100 people in the room disagree, UNLESS they give me arguments to convince me they are right, or that my belief is wrong.

This is funny because I've read INTP's are usually like that, but... I find it annoying when people use words incorrectly, or when they text other peoples not using the correct words or ',' '.' '!' '?' (which is probablly what I'm doing right now, since my english isn't as good as I'd like for it to be). I also hate being interrupted when speaking, I also don't like interrupt others and I find it frustrating if a third person interrupts a conversation, and the person I was talking with never returns to the same subject, or doesn't finish it. Once I've start doing something(like a math exercise, putting my books in order, a drawing) I feel the need to finish it even if in the middle of it I've lost interest in it, on the other hand, I tend to think about doing so many different things, like playing guitar, or learning some new technique of doing something, and as soon as I start doing that for a few days, these activities are left aside because I find other things to do. I have alot of interests, and in many of them I lack any skills, but on the other hand, I tend to be good at anything I want to do, as long as I'm commited. I hate repetitive activities, like taking a test twice(I didn't took my driver licence on my first attempt, and I gave up, because repetitiveness kills my mood/motivation).

I'm extremely crytical, and I sometimes offend people(I only realize this afterwards), but I'm the most crytical of myself. I always set high standards for myself, I like competent and determined people. People who are fearful, coward people, and people who are dependant of other in financial matters disgust me. I usually am a honest person and speak my mind, but many times I lie to people in matters where there's not their business, or when they're nosy about my private life. I don't like lying, but when I do it, I'm usually quite good at it. I don't like lying to people that are important to me, and I also avoid lying to people that I think that might understand me if I'd tell the the truth. Also the 'chameleonic' profile of INTP fits me. I usually use face expressions and behaviours that arent true to my state or internal opinion of the situation, I'm very good at acting. I tend to test people, manipulate them on occasions, induce certain emotions to them. I've been asked quite some times by co-workers if I'm sad/upset at times when I wasn't, probably due to my usual blank face. I don't like over-enthusiastic and loud people, and I find people who are dependent on other's attention(example ESFP) disgraceful, but that might be due to my bad experience with a certain ESFP.

I been called 'robotic' before by a friend from the USA, because somedays I would talk with him, and then he wouldn 't hear from me for days, and when I would come back I would say sorry(without really meaning it, because it would happen again and again... actually I don't believe there were many times in my life when I really meant it when said sorry, usually I don't feel anything when I say it, there've been extremely rare occasions when I really felt guilty). I also am very formal with anyone exept family, and I'm sometimes over-polite and say things like 'have a good day' to anyone in any situation after a conversation without realizing it. The first time I noticed it was funny because I was meeting a certaing surgeon for the first time, we shook hands and introduced 'nice to met you, NAME', and when I left, he shook my hand again, and I just said unconsciously 'nice to met you, NAME'. He looked at me a bit oddly, because he already knew my name and he adressed me using my name during our conversation, and then I realized how stupid that must have been.
Oh God, I wrote alot, you'll probably think I'm crazy, but I want to provide as much information as I can.
NOW, I mostly indentified myself as a INTP and less as an INTJ when I first found out about Myers Briggs(although I'm not sure about it, so I'll say INTP 51%), but then I found out about SOCIONICS, and this really shooke everything, as I don't know if I'm an ILI or a LII, and despite my efforts, I don't seem to make any progress on this. Now this is interesting. I think there might be something wrong either with me, either with Reinin dichotomies. I am farsighted, obstinate, democratic, negativist(ILI and LII common traits), and I'm for sure a declaring, so that would make me an ILI by now. I might be tactical, I think(although I DO PLAN ALOT, and I always consider all the possibilities, my plans don't go extremely far, I think). I also think I might be process oriented, which is ILI again. Don't know about the constructivist/emotivist(although I think I might be a constructivist) or judicious/decisive. 

There's also something strange with the quadras, according to this site An explanation on "childish" and "mature" views in the Socion I seem to identify myself as a Gamma, but on this one Quadra - Wikisocion I identify as an Alpha more. I'm confused because I have no idea which is accurate. 
I'm aware that MBTI and SOCIONICS are extremely different, that's why it would be helpful to suggest both when trying to type all this. Also please don't assme that I'm an LII just because you might think I'm and INTP and vice-versa.

I've been trying to determine this for a month, although I know myself very well, I still don't know which type I am, and I'm afraid I might be biased. I want to be sure about it when I determine something, that's why I needed other opinions. You can ask anything that you think might be helpful in order to betermine my type. I never ask for other people opinion, but I am new to this and I feel I might not be as informed as I should, or that I might be misinformed. The innability to determine this, to solve it-this kills me. So please, help.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

SciLenss said:


> I would be surprised if anyone would really read everything I wrote because It's alot, and I realize you must have some more interesting things to do, but I hope some of those who know more than me about it will take this as a challenge.
> (I'm sorry, english is my second language and sometimes I make mistakes)
> 
> INTPs, INTJs/ ILI(INTp)s, LII(INTj)s, I would like to know if you relate to any
> ...


Nope. Analytical perhaps, could be a thinker trait, intuitive depends on how and what is meant by intuitive here. Independence and justice are traits not typical for any particular type. Anyone can seek to be independent or care for justice, though in an enneagram sense, I'd say these traits together are more likely to stereotypically suggest type 6 and 8. 



> but also sense of duty, very responsible on matters that are important for me and my family, I always put work before playing(while in school I litterally couldnt sleep at night if I didn't do all my homeworks that day, despite the fact that I would go to school at 12:00am and I never slept over 08:30am), and even if I'm usually being very disorganised and my desk or closet are almost always messy, I appreciate order.


None of these things really suggest anything relevant when it comes to cognition, except perhaps being disorganized may indicate irrationality but only vaguely so. 



> If I don't do what I think I should do, that makes me feel extremely restless, almost guilty, and although I tend to procrastinate stuff that I need to do, I never do it with things that are important and that need to be taken seriously.


So you have a fairly strong and present superego. Doesn't say more than that. 



> When I find myself immersed in something that interests me(like a book, or a movie) I forget of my existence, forget about eating(I'm a tall and very thin girl, 1.75m and 49-50kg) or sleeping(I never liked sleeping, I sleep very little, feel restless and feel like I'm missing things when I'm sleeping, I also have huge permanent eye shadows/bags because of sleep deprivation).


Sexual instinct, perhaps. 



> I hate small talk(I have this friend who I believe he's a ESFP and everytime he calls he just tells me what he's done that day, when he woke up, what he ate and stuff and the he asks me the same things and that gets me so boring, well actually I don't have any friends, I was in a relationship with this guy, and after I dumped him we agreed on being friends), I don't like to socialize with people, because most of them don't even understand what I'm trying to say, and I usually don't bother to say or explain much, but I get very passionate over a subject that's interesting to me and I can go on for hours about that.


So more preference for the sexual instinct.



> I'm a very open minded person, also very objective in almost any matter, most of the times unconventional in my approach of solving a problem/doing something. Although one of the most valuable things for me is freedom, I usually stick to conventional ways/behavior in places like work/school, as long as their rules get along with mines. I always stand by my opinion, even if all the other 100 people in the room disagree, UNLESS they give me arguments to convince me they are right, or that my belief is wrong.


Could see an inference for you valuing Fi-Te here, mostly because of how you are aware of standards and procedures and you seem primarily attuned to your own ethical sense of right and wrong. Also, your Te is at least 2D because you are aware of Te norms. I do not however, at this juncture, necessarily see you as a logical type. 



> This is funny because I've read INTP's are usually like that, but... I find it annoying when people use words incorrectly, or when they text other peoples not using the correct words or ',' '.' '!' '?' (which is probablly what I'm doing right now, since my english isn't as good as I'd like for it to be).


Not an INTP trait. Just a generic grammar Nazi trait. 



> I also hate being interrupted when speaking,


Could indicate declarer style, but it depends on why you don't like being interrupted. 



> I also don't like interrupt others and I find it frustrating if a third person interrupts a conversation, and the person I was talking with never returns to the same subject, or doesn't finish it. Once I've start doing something(like a math exercise, putting my books in order, a drawing) I feel the need to finish it even if in the middle of it I've lost interest in it,


This is a very clear preference towards process. It rules out LII that is result. 



> on the other hand, I tend to think about doing so many different things, like playing guitar, or learning some new technique of doing something, and as soon as I start doing that for a few days, these activities are left aside because I find other things to do. I have alot of interests, and in many of them I lack any skills, but on the other hand, I tend to be good at anything I want to do, as long as I'm commited. I hate repetitive activities, like taking a test twice(I didn't took my driver licence on my first attempt, and I gave up, because repetitiveness kills my mood/motivation).


Pretty sure you value Se-Ni at this point, though this paragraph here seems to indicate this even further. Not only do you seem to devalue Si, but you also seem to devalue Ne. That likely puts you in the gamma quadra. 



> I'm extremely crytical, and I sometimes offend people(I only realize this afterwards), but I'm the most crytical of myself.


This doesn't mean anything on its own, really.



> I always set high standards for myself, I like competent and determined people.


Seems like you value people who favor Te. In particular, I wonder if this doesn't seem to indicate some kind of Te seek in that you prefer having competent people around you, but don't necessarily value being competent yourself. 



> People who are fearful, coward people, and people who are dependant of other in financial matters disgust me.


I get the impression that you strongly devalue Ne types here, especially when it's not blocked with Te. 



> I usually am a honest person and speak my mind, but many times I lie to people in matters where there's not their business, or when they're nosy about my private life. I don't like lying, but when I do it, I'm usually quite good at it. I don't like lying to people that are important to me, and I also avoid lying to people that I think that might understand me if I'd tell the the truth


This here is very Fi-based reasoning based on what is right and wrong social behavior and conduct and how to behave to people depending on how close or distant you are. The sophistication seems so-so. I can't say whether I think this is representative of Fi in ego or super-id. 



> Also the 'chameleonic' profile of INTP fits me. I usually use face expressions and behaviours that arent true to my state or internal opinion of the situation, I'm very good at acting.


Fe demonstrative?



> I tend to test people, manipulate them on occasions, induce certain emotions to them.


This is not poor sophistication of ethics.



> I've been asked quite some times by co-workers if I'm sad/upset at times when I wasn't, probably due to my usual blank face. I don't like over-enthusiastic and loud people, and I find people who are dependent on other's attention(example ESFP) disgraceful, but that might be due to my bad experience with a certain ESFP.


Very obvious devaluing of the merry trait here, so it rules out both beta and alpha quadra. (A hint: I don't think you know what an ESFP is lol.)



> I been called 'robotic' before by a friend from the USA, because somedays I would talk with him, and then he wouldn 't hear from me for days, and when I would come back I would say sorry(without really meaning it, because it would happen again and again... actually I don't believe there were many times in my life when I really meant it when said sorry, usually I don't feel anything when I say it, there've been extremely rare occasions when I really felt guilty). I also am very formal with anyone exept family, and I'm sometimes over-polite and say things like 'have a good day' to anyone in any situation after a conversation without realizing it. The first time I noticed it was funny because I was meeting a certaing surgeon for the first time, we shook hands and introduced 'nice to met you, NAME', and when I left, he shook my hand again, and I just said unconsciously 'nice to met you, NAME'. He looked at me a bit oddly, because he already knew my name and he adressed me using my name during our conversation, and then I realized how stupid that must have been.
> Oh God, I wrote alot, you'll probably think I'm crazy, but I want to provide as much information as I can.


This entire paragraph here is mostly Fi blabber, in addition to expressing valuing the serious Reinin trait. 



> NOW, I mostly indentified myself as a INTP and less as an INTJ when I first found out about Myers Briggs(although I'm not sure about it, so I'll say INTP 51%), but then I found out about SOCIONICS, and this really shooke everything, as I don't know if I'm an ILI or a LII, and despite my efforts, I don't seem to make any progress on this. Now this is interesting. I think there might be something wrong either with me, either with Reinin dichotomies. I am farsighted, obstinate, democratic, negativist(ILI and LII common traits), and I'm for sure a declaring, so that would make me an ILI by now. I might be tactical, I think(although I DO PLAN ALOT, and I always consider all the possibilities, my plans don't go extremely far, I think). I also think I might be process oriented, which is ILI again. Don't know about the constructivist/emotivist(although I think I might be a constructivist) or judicious/decisive.
> 
> There's also something strange with the quadras, according to this site An explanation on "childish" and "mature" views in the Socion I seem to identify myself as a Gamma, but on this one Quadra - Wikisocion I identify as an Alpha more. I'm confused because I have no idea which is accurate.
> I'm aware that MBTI and SOCIONICS are extremely different, that's why it would be helpful to suggest both when trying to type all this. Also please don't assme that I'm an LII just because you might think I'm and INTP and vice-versa.
> ...


Skimming through all this because there's not much to really break down here but I do not think you are an INTP, and I do not think you are an ILI or an LII _either_. While I _do_ think gamma quadra is right for you, I think, and I'm perfectly serious about this, that you are an ESFP or an SEE. A young and immature one, but an ESFP. So no shit it doesn't make sense to you because you've been looking at this from the very wrong angle to begin with.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

*The reason I wrote all that stuff is* indeed because I'm confused, due to *my lack of experience with MBTI and Socionics*, and I wanted to provide as much information as I could(I am aware that there might be many things that aren't helpful, like my oppinions on something based on life experiences-my ex was that way, and I didn't like that about him, therefore I dislike people who are that way- 'People who are fearful, coward people, and people who are dependant of other in financial matters disgust me.'). Sectioning my post like that and analyzing it bit by bit might have seemed like a good idea to you, but the result of what you just did is horifying. I believe that incorporating all I shared in one idea would have produced results that are more accurate and closer to the truth. *There's no way I'm an extrovert, absolutely no way.* At any given time, I prefer being alone, and I always avoid people and crowds etc. Also I tend to spend *alot* of time in my head, thinking and I'm constantly unaware of what's happening around me. Also, I'm *definitely not a sensor* and I don't feel like a feeling type either(not sure how they must feel though lol). NONE of the tests I took, NONE of them didn't gave me results like ESF, and I don't indentify with this AT ALL-I read quite a few descriptions. The only types I can identify with are INTP and INTJ, I lean towards INTP, but I'm still unsure about it because I don't seem to be a stereotypical lazy ass, irresponsible INTP.
You're right, I'm young, and I might be childlike in some matters, but I am not more immature than most people. All the 'blabbers' and the '(...)'- I put those there in order to exemplify and help people understand what I meant, I didn't meant to get you stucked in them-which is exactly what just happened.
Oh, also, about my enneagram type, I'm neither a 6 nor 8, but definitely 5w4(with 5w6 25% following).


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Oh, I already forgot: [B_]I'm extremely crytical, and I sometimes offend people(I only realize this afterwards), but I'm the most crytical of myself._
This doesn't mean anything on its own, really.

_I always set high standards for myself, I like competent and determined people._
Seems like you value people who favor Te. In particular, I wonder if this doesn't seem to indicate some kind of Te seek in that you prefer having competent people around you, but don't necessarily value being competent yourself. 
[/B]


I DID say I appreciate competent and determinate people, and I also said, I ALWAYS SET HIGH STANDARDS FOR MYSELF(in competence and determination, of course), which means what? THAT I AM A COMPETENT AND DETERMINED PERSON MYSELF, and there you go, saying that I like people who are competent and determined, and that I don't value being competent myself. HOW DOES that make sense to you? 

Second: I said I'm critical of people, and I tend to speak my mind even if the disagree, even if I make them feel uncomfortable, because I don't care, and I also said I'M THE MOST CRYTICAL ABOUT MYSELF. What does that tell you? The same as above: I appreciate people who are determined, competent, but I AM MOST INTERESTED ABOUT MY OWN COMPETENCE AND DETERMINATION.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

SciLenss said:


> Oh, I already forgot: [B_]I'm extremely crytical, and I sometimes offend people(I only realize this afterwards), but I'm the most crytical of myself._
> This doesn't mean anything on its own, really.
> 
> _I always set high standards for myself, I like competent and determined people._
> ...


lol chill bro. Do you mean cryptic or critical? Also, setting standards doesn't equal to being competent. Someone can have high standards and expectations on oneself but still feel that they cannot live up to them and would thus be happy if someone else does.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

If that brain of yours would serve you well you would understand exactly what I would mean. Apparently it's not the case. I also assure you I am a very competent person, among the most competent persons I've ever known, so no worries about that. And no, I wouldn't be happy just if someone else is competent, actually I don't care of other competence, I only appreciate people who are that way, because I identify with them(as with all the other traits, I usually don't like in people traits I don't have, but traits I DO have).
Your profile says you're an INTJ, but you don't strike me that stereotypical superior intelligence INTJ's are supposed to have. I am not shocked though, exceptions exist. I, myself am very different of the stereotypical INTP(just 60% sure of my INTPness, but still). You seem to lack depthness and fail to see the meaning behind the words which makes it hard to believe you use intuition at all, are you sure you're not a sensor?


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

scilenss said:


> oh, i already forgot: [b_]i'm extremely crytical, and i sometimes offend people(i only realize this afterwards), but i'm the most crytical of myself._
> this doesn't mean anything on its own, really.
> 
> _i always set high standards for myself, i like competent and determined people._
> ...


INTj/LII


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

SciLenss said:


> If that brain of yours would serve you well you would understand exactly what I would mean. Apparently it's not the case. I also assure you I am a very competent person, among the most competent persons I've ever known, so no worries about that. And no, I wouldn't be happy just if someone else is competent, actually I don't care of other competence, I only appreciate people who are that way, because I identify with them(as with all the other traits, I usually don't like in people traits I don't have, but traits I DO have).
> Your profile says you're an INTJ, but you don't strike me that stereotypical superior intelligence INTJ's are supposed to have. I am not shocked though, exceptions exist. I, myself am very different of the stereotypical INTP(just 60% sure of my INTPness, but still). You seem to lack depthness and fail to see the meaning behind the words which makes it hard to believe you use intuition at all, are you sure you're not a sensor?


ah, women nowadays


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Typhon said:


> INTj/LII


 Um... thank you! It would be interesting to know WHY you concluded that? (I fail to understand the difference between ILI and LII mostly because I relate to both and also because of the different descriptions I've read around the internet).


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Typhon said:


> ah, women nowadays


:bored: What's the matter?


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

SciLenss said:


> Um... thank you! It would be interesting to know WHY you concluded that? (I fail to understand the difference between ILI and LII mostly because I relate to both and also because of the different descriptions I've read around the internet).


Because you describe your sense of competence as mostly focused on yourself, gamma NTs I know, myself included are very critical of others methods and take to heart others incompetence. For example, my ILI cousin prefers to do all te reparations around his house because he doesnt trust that hired workers are competent enough. 



SciLenss said:


> :bored: What's the matter?


Idk, I have nothing against Entropic or anything, I just liked the way you wrote that post, lol. I realize it has nothing to do with you being a woman or anything, just felt like engaging you, lol.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

SciLenss said:


> *The reason I wrote all that stuff is* indeed because I'm confused, due to *my lack of experience with MBTI and Socionics*, and I wanted to provide as much information as I could(I am aware that there might be many things that aren't helpful, like my oppinions on something based on life experiences-my ex was that way, and I didn't like that about him, therefore I dislike people who are that way- 'People who are fearful, coward people, and people who are dependant of other in financial matters disgust me.'). Sectioning my post like that and analyzing it bit by bit might have seemed like a good idea to you, but the result of what you just did is horifying. I believe that incorporating all I shared in one idea would have produced results that are more accurate and closer to the truth. *There's no way I'm an extrovert, absolutely no way.*


How do you know, based on what definition and criteria? You say you don't understand the system, that means you should also acknowledge that the system may operate on different notions of what it means to be an extrovert. 



> At any given time, I prefer being alone, and I always avoid people and crowds etc. Also I tend to spend *alot* of time in my head, thinking and I'm constantly unaware of what's happening around me.


None of that indicates cognitive introversion. 



> Also, I'm *definitely not a sensor* and I don't feel like a feeling type either(not sure how they must feel though lol).


You don't even know how the system defines sensorics and ethics, so how would you know? 



> NONE of the tests I took, NONE of them didn't gave me results like ESF,


Exactly, because tests are shit. Extremely unreliable and hinge far too much on self-perception. 



> and I don't indentify with this AT ALL-I read quite a few descriptions.


But did you read up on the system, how that works? 



> The only types I can identify with are INTP and INTJ, I lean towards INTP, but I'm still unsure about it because I don't seem to be a stereotypical lazy ass, irresponsible INTP.
> You're right, I'm young, and I might be childlike in some matters, but I am not more immature than most people. All the 'blabbers' and the '(...)'- I put those there in order to exemplify and help people understand what I meant, I didn't meant to get you stucked in them-which is exactly what just happened.


By blabber I don't mean it in a negative way. Just saying that the subject at hand is about X stuff. 



> Oh, also, about my enneagram type, I'm neither a 6 nor 8, but definitely 5w4(with 5w6 25% following).


I can tell you quite confidently based on how you come across here that you're not a 5. A reactive type though, perhaps.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Typhon said:


> Because you describe your sense of competence as mostly focused on yourself, gamma NTs I know, myself included are very critical of others methods and take to heart others incompetence. For example, my ILI cousin prefers to do all te reparations around his house because he doesnt trust that hired workers are competent enough.


Except the OP pointed out several times how they are critical of themselves and others. That kind of critical-ness in general, and being so upfront about it, hardly points towards alpha values. 



> Idk, I have nothing against Entropic or anything, I just liked the way you wrote that post, lol. I realize it has nothing to do with you being a woman or anything, just felt like engaging you, lol


Yeah, and I'm pretty sure you did because it's delivered in a very typical gamma SF manner imo.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Typhon said:


> Because you describe your sense of competence as mostly focused on yourself, gamma NTs I know, myself included are very critical of others methods and take to heart others incompetence. For example, my ILI cousin prefers to do all te reparations around his house because he doesnt trust that hired workers are competent enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Idk, I have nothing against Entropic or anything, I just liked the way you wrote that post, lol. I realize it has nothing to do with you being a woman or anything, just felt like engaging you, lol.


 I too do that-the thing your cousin does. I never like to work on team, but if I have to and my results depend on the result of the work I always want to do it my way because I don't trust that the others will do it good enough.


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## Typhon (Nov 13, 2012)

Entropic said:


> Except the OP pointed out several times how they are critical of themselves and others. That kind of critical-ness in general, and being so upfront about it, hardly points towards alpha values.


I havent read everything she posted, I focused on a single passage and went with that. But I agree that critical-ness and being upfront about it, hardly seems like aplha quadra values. Give me some time and I will read more, Im just kind of a busy guy is all.





> Yeah, and I'm pretty sure you did because it's delivered in a very typical gamma SF manner imo.


Lol. I can see that.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

SciLenss said:


> If that brain of yours would serve you well you would understand exactly what I would mean. Apparently it's not the case. I also assure you I am a very competent person, among the most competent persons I've ever known, so no worries about that. And no, I wouldn't be happy just if someone else is competent, actually I don't care of other competence, I only appreciate people who are that way, because I identify with them(as with all the other traits, I usually don't like in people traits I don't have, but traits I DO have).


Gee, so you like Te, not that we didn't know that at this point.



> Your profile says you're an INTJ,


Indeed! Very astutely observant of you.



> but you don't strike me that stereotypical superior intelligence INTJ's are supposed to have.


What does it mean to express a stereotype way of superior intelligence? I'm quite confident I have above average IQ, if that counts. 



> I am not shocked though, exceptions exist. I, myself am very different of the stereotypical INTP(just 60% sure of my INTPness, but still).


Yet you insist to type as one. :shocked:



> You seem to lack depthness and fail to see the meaning behind the words which makes it hard to believe you use intuition at all, are you sure you're not a sensor?


What depth and meaning is there that I'm not seeing? Please point it out to me. And I can assure you, I'm also most definitely and unfortunately a Jungian introverted intuitive type, as impractical as that is in real life.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Oh dear, here we go: I don't fully understand the system, and I also don't want to assume that the first result of a test is accurate. I'm skeptical about it. But really now, this system is about PREFERENCE of the cognitive functions. Do you really think I wouldn't know if I'm a sensor or an intuitive? Theese two are the easiest to tell apart. Also, don't you think I should identify myself with description of a type or of the cognitive functions I use(at least to some extent)? There you go again splitting my words into characters and telling me that the 'W' in the 'World' is a 'W' and so on, instead of considering all, incorporating all I said into a single general idea and seeing the MEANING behind it, because that's what you actually do, in a macroscopic way, you tear apart all I said, giving the small parts a meaning by your own, and you're also being quite literal about it. 
Now let's just assume for a moment I will not discard all you've said, and I ask you to 'enlighten' me with your knowledge and experience about the matter. Tell me, how do I know if I'm an introverted or extroverted? What doesn being introverted/extraverted mean to you? How about sensing and intuition? Or thinking and feeling?


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Entropic said:


> Except the OP pointed out several times how they are critical of themselves and others. That kind of critical-ness in general, and being so upfront about it, hardly points towards alpha values.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, and I'm pretty sure you did because it's delivered in a very typical gamma SF manner imo.


 And what would that typical gamma SF manner be?


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## Madman (Aug 7, 2012)

@SciLenss what do _you_ think it means to be extroverted or introverted?


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Madman said:


> @SciLenss what do _you_ think it means to be extroverted or introverted?


 Introverts are focused on their inner world and they're usually more reserved, extroverts however tend to be more 'present' in the reality, more focused on it. Am I wrong? If I am, please tell me WHY.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Some agree with that, some do not. That makes me skeptical, and I find that the second one would be less prone to give accurate results, that's why I suggested we should not assume the first.


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## Wunderkind (Oct 26, 2014)

I recommend answering the 80 questions here
If this is too much work for you, then just read the answers of other people. Maybe you find somebody you can relate to.

By the way - for some reason, many people in the forums type themselves INTJ or INTP although it's one of the rarest personality profiles: https://thephilosophicalboy.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/mbti-distribution-chart/

Maybe it's a fallacy to consider rare being special and precious. There could also be other reasons why the personality type is not so numerous. Maybe this is not a very successful life strategy.

Feel free to type yourself as you like. Any starting point is good. Don't overestimate the starting point.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

That's not it. Before I took my first test I've never read any descriptions of the types, actually I knew NOTHING about MBTI. The result was INTP and I was shocked when I read the description, because I could relate to it 90%. There were things that didn't match in the other descriptions and I took other tests, and read about other personality types. The second I could somewhat relate to was INTJ(probably because I'm responsible and I always do what has to be done, ALWAYS work before play, I cannot relax and do other activities if I know I have unfinished business, unlike the INTP stereotype). I lean towards INTP, but because I cannot relate to all they say about them 100% I have trouble fully accepting that.


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## Madman (Aug 7, 2012)

After reading through this thread, I am fairly certain.... you are not an INTP, or LII.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)




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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

@Entropic



> If that brain of yours would serve you well you would understand exactly what I would mean. Apparently it's not the case. I also assure you I am a very competent person, among the most competent persons I've ever known, so no worries about that. And no, I wouldn't be happy just if someone else is competent, actually I don't care of other competence, I only appreciate people who are that way, because I identify with them(as with all the other traits, I usually don't like in people traits I don't have, but traits I DO have).
> Your profile says you're an INTJ, but you don't strike me that stereotypical superior intelligence INTJ's are supposed to have. I am not shocked though, exceptions exist. I, myself am very different of the stereotypical INTP(just 60% sure of my INTPness, but still). You seem to lack depthness and fail to see the meaning behind the words which makes it hard to believe you use intuition at all, are you sure you're not a sensor?


Why do all the new users hate you so much?


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

:laughing: I don't hate anyone.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Wunderkind said:


> By the way - for some reason, many people in the forums type themselves INTJ or INTP although it's one of the rarest personality profiles: https://thephilosophicalboy.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/mbti-distribution-chart/


How was that data collected?


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

SEI.

And with that, it's time to go to bed. It's way past my bedtime.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

By now I got SEE, LII, IEE, ESI and SEI. At first I thought it's ridiculous but I find it rather funny now, the way everyone sees something different, so many different opinions over the same thing it's interesting. :laughing:


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Noir said:


> @Entropic
> 
> 
> 
> Why do all the new users hate you so much?


Don't know lol.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

SciLenss said:


> By now I got SEE, LII, IEE, ESI and SEI. At first I thought it's ridiculous but I find it rather funny now, the way everyone sees something different, so many different opinions over the same thing it's interesting. :laughing:


Maybe you should learn it and take some time to analyze yourself *honestly*. Don't take descriptions too seriously and don't fall in the trap of wanting to be a certain type to the point that you actually get to behave like that type.


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## Wunderkind (Oct 26, 2014)

@Stampede:
The source is "Essentials of Myers-Briggs Type Indicator Assessment" by Naomi L. Quenk, 1998


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Noir said:


> Maybe you should learn it and take some time to analyze yourself *honestly*. Don't take descriptions too seriously and don't fall in the trap of wanting to be a certain type to the point that you actually get to behave like that type.


I wasn't very attracted to the idea of learning too much about it, I just wanted a result that would verbalize what I can do and what I cannot do/what I'm not good at as I'm not interested in typing other people, but after all what happened lately, I'm seriously considering learning as much as I can about Socionics. I don't believe I want to be a certain type, I'm just trying to learn more about myself, and I'm not trying to behave as a certain type, I'm trying to find out which type I behave like. But that's just what *I* think. 
After being typed so differently by you guys, we shouldn't exclude possibilities like:_ I WANT to be a certain type_ or _I have some personality/mental disorder/s_ LOL


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## Wunderkind (Oct 26, 2014)

Now you're on the right track, SciLenss! :happy: Look, we only perceive you by your posts. Your written thoughts are just a small bit of the whole spectrum that you are as a person. I mean, it's even less than talking to somebody on the phone. So the best person to type you is yourself. And for that, it's really good to learn the Socionics stuff. (It's just a toolset but I assure you, it's a useful one.)

My suspicion why you've got this many results is: you want to be a certain type. This is completely sane, so don't beat yourself up. Look, we could never admire traits in others if those traits were not our soft spots. Just don't push them away because that eats up your self-confidence. By getting to know others, we always get to know ourselves a little bit better, too. So if you want to apply socionics 1. learn the definitions and 2. start with finding out other people's personality types. That's what we all do here.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

'We could never admire traits in others if those traits were not our soft spots.' -I agree, but this is not always the case. Example where that is right: If 2 people aroung me start punching themselves in the face, they could do that until one of them dies, I wouldn't try to stop them, because I don't like to get involved in such things. I would appreciate a person who would try to stop those two though. 
Another one: If I'm in a group, and someone's talking, even if I completely disagree with him/her, I wouldn't say anything, just listen, even if to me it';s obvious he/she's wrong and/or stupid. However, if someone else in the group would disagree with the person speaking and he/she would speak his/her mind and show to the other that he/she's wrong, I would highly appreciate that person, and see him/her as curageous, brave etc., because I don't have the strenght to step into the spotlight because I don't want to draw attention on myself lol.
Example where what you said isn't always accurate: I like to keep my promises and am serious about what I say. That is the reason I like people that are alike, because it might be irritating for me to deal with people that are the exact opposite. 
Or, I don't give up on something even if at first it seems impossible to achieve, because I want to prove to myself that I can do it, and like people who don't give up and keep on fighting to acieve seemingly impossible/very difficult things.


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## Wunderkind (Oct 26, 2014)

Oh, and if you one day find out that you really are a 'Balzac' or 'Robespierre' - this fact will be less important than your ability to deal with people so that all benefit. That's invaluable.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

I'm fixed on the idea that there's high chances I am an ILI or LII because I identify with the descriptions of the tests I've taken, I DO NOT THINK I WANT THAT. But because I'm confused with all this, I think no possibility should be excluded.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

SciLenss said:


> I wasn't very attracted to the idea of learning too much about it, I just wanted a result that would verbalize what I can do and what I cannot do/what I'm not good at as I'm not interested in typing other people, but after all what happened lately, I'm seriously considering learning as much as I can about Socionics. I don't believe I want to be a certain type, I'm just trying to learn more about myself, and I'm not trying to behave as a certain type, I'm trying to find out which type I behave like. But that's just what *I* think.
> After being typed so differently by you guys, we shouldn't exclude possibilities like:_ I WANT to be a certain type_ or _I have some personality/mental disorder/s_ LOL


So you kinda wanted to cheat and get a quick and decisive answer. It doesn't usually work out very well that way, trust me. I know the feeling of getting frustrated with various interpretations that somehow feel wrong. You are the one who should identify your type and we can help. 

First of all, I find that the best way to identify your type is to identify which cognitive functions you most relate to. I don't know much about socionics, but in MBTI INTJs have dom. Ni (introverted intuition) and aux Te(extraverted thinking). 
Look it up here and tell me which fits best: cognitive functions | Funky MBTI Fiction. 

You should start there as socionics is a bit more complicated. So read up about cognitive functions.

Also, you are not going to like this, but I have some doubts about your enneagram as well.



> I wasn't very attracted to the idea of learning too much about it, I just wanted a result that would verbalize what I can do and what I cannot do...


And I simply don't get the overall vibe of you being a 5w4, but don't take it the wrong way.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Double post due to a random error.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

I can see why you're saying I might not be a 5w4, you think a 5 would learn just anything, right? I personally don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't refuse learning some things, even 5s are humans and have their own interests, I suppose if they're not interested in smth they won't be interested to learn about it either. But since you're the second person who tells me this I will consider a possibility that I'm not a 5w4(despite the fact I don't relate as much with any of the other enneagram types).


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

I retract a random shot-in-the-dark I made in another, earlier MBTI thread. You _absolutely scream _Gamma SF. A very immature one.


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## Gentleman (Jun 14, 2014)

Noir said:


> Look it up here and tell me which fits best: cognitive functions | Funky MBTI Fiction.


I never would've identified as an Si dom as it's described here.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Oh man, this is still going on lol

You know (and I'm sure you already do, someone probably already brought it up) but these are all shots in the dark. It's almost irrelevant how much an individual knows about type if all they know about you is snippets of information. And nothing wrong with interpretations, but again, you can't expect much more out of that. Because essentially what people do is read a snippet of information and assume the reasoning behind it is X. Could it be X? Maybe. Or could it be an interpretation different from your intensions? There is automatically a flaw in 'certainty'. You can never know someone to that extend, especially some stranger online. 

The benefit of these things though, is that you do get provided with sources and possible gateways. It's a sort of "i'm stuck! throw something at me" but that's the next step. Picking up from there on your own

and bladiti bladi bah. A+ for useful and mind-blowing information on my part.


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## allspirit (Nov 12, 2014)

Hi. 
My soulmate and best friend was an INTP. I apologize because I noticed at very top YOU wanted advice from and INTP or other types,,,,NOT AN ESFP AS MY SELF..... YET NOWADAYS IM MORE INTROVERTED..... MY SOULMATE WAS In reference to an old friend. HE was THE ONLY MAN YET I HAVE PERSONALY ME that was open enough to take many personality typings and an amazing man. He was an INTP..... I knew him for ten years and was involved for four on the deepest levels. I hope my fellow soul that you do not define yourself by any typing... YOU are a soul and an equal..... WE ALL HAVE the same fears and joys and sadness,....ect yet as individuals we have different ways of handeling things..... and reasons.... TRUE I WISH OUR INNOCENCE AS CHILDREN NEVER DISAPPEARED for they arew direct, open, honest and pure, without inhibition..... I too am very much like that.... Perhaps IT IS THE CALMNESS THAT I LACKED IN MY OLD SOULMATE BEING AN INTP....THAT I SEEKED OUT. hE BALANCED WHAT I LACKED YET WE WERE VERY SIMILAR IN OUR ETHICS AND VIWES AND MORALS..... I FELT THE NEED TO REPLY TO YOU..... ONLY BECAUSE OF WHAT I HAVE TOLD YOU......


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Do you guys think that some audio/video would be better than just posting stuff about myself? If I's do some, what shall I talk about? Are there any questions I could answer about myself that would be relevant in my typing? I thought about talking about functions, extroversion and introversion, rationality/irrationality, and just justify with my own words why and how I relate to each of one. Do you think the information on this site is accurate? Introduction into Socionics Introduction into Socionics


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Stampede said:


> I never would've identified as an Si dom as it's described here.


Hm,weird. Most people, including myself, usually identify with the things written there. Besides, it wasn't meant to be very scientific to begin with, just a way of introducing cognitive functions. 
@SciLenss



> I can see why you're saying I might not be a 5w4, you think a 5 would learn just anything, right? I personally don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't refuse learning some things, even 5s are humans and have their own interests, I suppose if they're not interested in smth they won't be interested to learn about it either. But since you're the second person who tells me this I will consider a possibility that I'm not a 5w4(despite the fact I don't relate as much with any of the other enneagram types).


5's are energized by studying things, it makes them feel good. I agree they won't study *everything*, but they *will* learn about the things that makes them interested. This thread is 10 pages long, meaning you are somewhat interested in this, and yet refuse to learn the system.



> Do you guys think that some audio/video would be better than just posting stuff about myself? If I's do some, what shall I talk about? Are there any questions I could answer about myself that would be relevant in my typing? I thought about talking about functions, extroversion and introversion, rationality/irrationality, and just justify with my own words why and how I relate to each of one. Do you think the information on this site is accurate? Introduction into Socionics Introduction into Socionics


You are very eager to have someone tell you what type you are. I don't know, there is something in your style that doesn't strike me as a 5. You could be a 5, but I have my doubts. 

On a site note, I don't know if you've noticed, but this isn't taking you anywhere. At least ask someone who knows you well, if you refuse to analyze yourself.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

SciLenss said:


> I can see why you're saying I might not be a 5w4, you think a 5 would learn just anything, right? I personally don't think there's anyone out there who doesn't refuse learning some things, even 5s are humans and have their own interests, I suppose if they're not interested in smth they won't be interested to learn about it either. But since you're the second person who tells me this I will consider a possibility that I'm not a 5w4(despite the fact I don't relate as much with any of the other enneagram types).


The thing is though, 5 isn't about learning but 5 is a type whose primary way of dealing with the world is a hoarding mechanism due to their _anxiety/fear_ that they are too small and substantial to actually be able to survive in the world on their own. If there's one thing you've demonstrated well in this thread is that you do not suffer from a fear of being without sufficient resources within yourself to survive.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

I noticed that, reason why I suggested something else. ' At least ask someone who knows you well, if you refuse to analyze yourself.' - I also thought about that, and I'd love that, but the thing is there's noone out here that really knows me(except for my SF/ST ex boyfriend who never understood me actually, he just admired me for being all he never was and what he never even try to be, other than that the words he'd describe me would be determined, harsh, critical etc.). People don't get to know me as a person, all they see is an ambitious student, a determined and successful co-worker etc. People usually say I'm shy, reclusive, and that I don't socialize enough, and that I don't know how to have fun, because my idea of having fun is totally different from theirs.
So you see... there's noone else there that can help me, except for my mom, who thinks this is a time loss, she doen't believe much in theese things, although I tried to get her interest with it.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

SciLenss said:


> I noticed that, reason why I suggested something else. ' At least ask someone who knows you well, if you refuse to analyze yourself.' - I also thought about that, and I'd love that, but the thing is there's noone out here that really knows me(except for my SF/ST ex boyfriend who never understood me actually, he just admired me for being all he never was and what he never even try to be, other than that the words he'd describe me would be determined, harsh, critical etc.). People don't get to know me as a person, all they see is an ambitious student, a determined and successful co-worker etc. People usually say I'm shy, reclusive, and that I don't socialize enough, and that I don't know how to have fun, because my idea of having fun is totally different from theirs.
> So you see... there's noone else there that can help me, except for my mom, who thinks this is a time loss, she doen't believe much in theese things, although I tried to get her interest with it.


You might be a 4w3. Or 3w4.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

Noir said:


> You might be a 4w3. Or 3w4.


'3 – The Motivator – These people strive for achievement and recognition, but can also become inauthentic and overly image-conscious.' -I don't identify with this at all. I don't really strive for recognition at all because I don't care what people think about me. I could say I strive for achievement, but I mostly do it for myself. Although I'm kind of competitive, that's not for recognition, it's for myself, I take competitivity as a challenge to improve myself, and prove to myself that I CAN. The idea of being unable to do something, or uncapable is kind of depressing to me and shutters my inner balance, makes me feel like I'm loosing myself. It's all about myself, not what other people think, not my image, therefore chances that I might be a 3 are very small. 
Now with the 4, I kind of relate to that. 4- 'The Individualist – These people strive to be unique and are deeply emotionally sensitive, but can become depressed and isolated.'- I couldn't say that I strive extremely to be unique, as I find being capable is much more important to me, uniqueness comes second, but I feel that I'm emotionally sensitive, despite the fact most people see me as detached. I'm also extremely prone to isolation, but that's okay with me, it's not affecting me that much(although I believe it's nice to have a few friends I can talk with to a deep level as I tend to seek more profound bonds with people, rather than numerous frienships).


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

> I also thought about that, and I'd love that, but the thing is there's noone out here that really knows me(except for my SF/ST ex boyfriend who never understood me actually, he just admired me for being all he never was and what he never even try to be, other than that the words he'd describe me would be determined, harsh, critical etc.)


I guess you could be an unhealthy 4w3 (way too arrogant). Don't take this the wrong way, but do you even want to be typed? What you really seem to be doing is somehow gathering attention to yourself. You enjoy people reading about you and typing you. It was emphasized several times that this thread is not going to get you anywhere and you still insist on making videos so that others can type you.

I have nothing against you, so don't take it personally.


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

If you would have read my first posts, you would know that I've been wondering about 1 month if I should or not go ahead and seek help. I'm definitely not a person who likes to expose herself. Even when I suggested Entropic a video converstion and asked him to type him I asked that it wouldn't be recorded or posted here for the same reason. And all those stuff you think I'm arrogant about are exactly my ex's words, he used to say(and still does) that he admires me for being independent and determined and that I'm like a model or ideal to him. Those are his words, not mines. Also the part 'admired me for being all he never was and what he never even try to be' comes from what I would tell him everytime he started telling me how he appreciates me for what I am. I always told him: 'if you appreciate so much this, and this and that, why don't you try to be like that at all?'


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

SciLenss said:


> After all theese discussions that made me even more confused than I was before asking for your help guys, I'm considering '' s advice, I wouldn't make a video, but I would like a live conversation(unrecorded, if possible) with some of you(I've seen some threads where you guys did some conversations videos, interesting idea, seeing how different types interact), mainly because I still think that some of you might help me, but also because many of you seem interesting and I believe that would be a nice experience(for me at least lol). Now I know some of you might not consider that time loss, but I'm going to ask for that anyway. Entropic comes to my mind, I understand if he refuses, he might think I'm too stupid to talk with(and I understand why he might think so lol), but it's worth a try anyway(it's crazy how we contradict each other and It would be nice to see if we would also contradict as much as if face to face, or it's just due to my lack of knowledge in Socionics field, also what would be interesting, is to see if my behavior is the way he pictures me and the way I seem to be in here, or different, in other words, see if I'm impacted by the forer effect that he suggested and if I have a distorted image about my behavior/myself, reason why I seem to contradict him about my type). Entropic, would you please accept that and see for yourself if you're right about about all that? Also,no matter what your conclusion regarding my type afterwards, I promise I will accept all you say as true and not question it. Will you please do me the extraordinary favor of accepting that?
> 
> 
> If there are others who thing that can help, you're welcome. Thank you!


woah either you're into being extremely submissive to others or you're being manipulative in an awkward way


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

myst91 said:


> woah either you're into being extremely submissive to others or you're being manipulative in an awkward way


Please just let this thread die already...


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Noir said:


> Please just let this thread die already...


praytell why I should?

If you personally have a problem with the thread, don't read and don't post in it. That simple.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

myst91 said:


> praytell why I should?
> 
> If you personally have a problem with the thread, don't read and don't post in it. That simple.


Don't say I didn't warn ya


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Noir said:


> Don't say I didn't warn ya


Loool don't worry about me


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## SciLenss (Oct 15, 2014)

myst91 said:


> woah either you're into being extremely submissive to others or you're being manipulative in an awkward way





EITHER you cannot understand anything because you're LIMITED up there. (Yes, I'm talking about your brain) 

Thank you very much for your post, but I'm fine, so would you do the world a favor and go hang yourself already? :kitteh:


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

^ aaaaand that is how folk get banned 
lol


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