# Someone please explain Beta quadra to me!



## Anonymous Disaster (Mar 15, 2016)

As far as I understand Beta is all about power, social structure and hierarchy within the society. Members of that quadra try to get on the highest position possible and to climb the social leather they use their feelings to influence the atmosphere and the goal orientation of the group. They can also use power in a physical sense and prove their position as the strong ones in the society.
They disvalue individuality because they see a little potential in personal growth and rather seek the growth within the group or a community they belong to. 
They can be strategic in building their plans and goals and value clear logical structures. They disvalue people unable to understand the system and reject them as the outcasts of their elite club.

Am I right? Or is beta about something else? Explain this to me please! I am mainly interested in beta NFs.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

Beta is a teenager trying to prove they are mature.


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## Revolver Ocelot (Feb 25, 2015)

It's the MMA cafefighting UFC quadra.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

Anonymous Disaster said:


> As far as I understand Beta is all about power, social structure and hierarchy within the society. Members of that quadra try to get on the highest position possible and to climb the social leather they use their feelings to influence the atmosphere and the goal orientation of the group. They can also use power in a physical sense and prove their position as the strong ones in the society.
> They disvalue individuality because they see a little potential in personal growth and rather seek the growth within the group or a community they belong to.
> They can be strategic in building their plans and goals and value clear logical structures. They disvalue people unable to understand the system and reject them as the outcasts of their elite club.
> 
> Am I right? Or is beta about something else? Explain this to me please! I am mainly interested in beta NFs.


That whole description is mistaking Beta Quadra for social instinct (so) of the enneagram. 
The social instinct is described as:

*"Social Instinct (so):* This subtype is focused on their interactions with other people and with the sense of value or esteem they derive from their participation in collective activities. These include work, family, hobbies, clubs—basically any arena in which Social types can interact with others for some shared purpose. ... Within that social instinct, however, are many other implicit imperatives, and primary among them is the understanding of "place" within a hierarchical social structure."

You can see how much that overlaps with your description. But not all Betas value the social instinct. 1/3rd of Beta quadra (every 3rd Beta you'll meet) has this instinct as their last one and doesn't give a dime about social awareness, instead preferring an individual mode of expression. In short, the above doesn't define Beta.


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## Jeremy8419 (Mar 2, 2015)

Pack instincts.


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

First of all its a merry quadra. After that Id like to look on those spins. The SLE have a Se- which is focusing on the basics of Se, always be aware of food and sleep and health needs I believe. The LSI got the Ti+ which is constantly constructing an ever developing Ti structure of everything. Fe- somewhat want to have a solid brand of what is good expression and safe expressions of emotion and therefor the EIE is somewhat focusing on a consensus in Fe. The Ni+ in IEI is creating new perspectivs and angles on what is going on in this reality.

Put it into one person and you got some easy going semi crazy somewhat seeking sleep and food in the most basic form and have a solid expression of safe emotion and continually develop theories and thinking structures.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Kinda what the Cap'n said, me hearties.


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## Anonymous Disaster (Mar 15, 2016)

Captain Mclain said:


> First of all its a merry quadra. After that Id like to look on those spins. The SLE have a Se- which is focusing on the basics of Se, always be aware of food and sleep and health needs I believe. The LSI got the Ti+ which is constantly constructing an ever developing Ti structure of everything. Fe- somewhat want to have a solid brand of what is good expression and safe expressions of emotion and therefor the EIE is somewhat focusing on a consensus in Fe. The Ni+ in IEI is creating new perspectivs and angles on what is going on in this reality.
> 
> Put it into one person and you got some easy going semi crazy somewhat seeking sleep and food in the most basic form and have a solid expression of safe emotion and continually develop theories and thinking structures.


Sleep, food and health is not Se. Se in socionics is about power and control over your external enviroment. What you described is Si and it is not a part of this quadra.


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Anonymous Disaster said:


> Sleep, food and health is not Se. Se in socionics is about power and control over your external enviroment. What you described is Si and it is not a part of this quadra.


No. Se in Beta is I guess being in contol of these category of needs. Si is something different.


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## Anonymous Disaster (Mar 15, 2016)

Captain Mclain said:


> No. Se in Beta is I guess being in contol of these category of needs. Si is something different.


Introduction to Se

Extroverted sensing is an extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Se, F, volitional sensing, or black sensing. Se includes the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required. Types that value Se are much more comfortable with direct behavior aimed at making an immediate impact. This may at times be perceived as abrasive, particularly by types who do not value Se. There is usually a competitive edge to this style of group interaction, resulting in a more intense atmosphere than that of introverted sensing (Si)-valuing quadras. They appreciate contemplating possibilities only if they feel like they stand to gain something from it, or it has a perceived potential impact on "the real world". Unlike Si, which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.

- See more at: Socionics Information Elements: Se


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Anonymous Disaster said:


> Introduction to Se
> 
> Extroverted sensing is an extroverted, irrational, and static information element. It is also called Se, F, volitional sensing, or black sensing. Se includes the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required. Types that value Se are much more comfortable with direct behavior aimed at making an immediate impact. This may at times be perceived as abrasive, particularly by types who do not value Se. There is usually a competitive edge to this style of group interaction, resulting in a more intense atmosphere than that of introverted sensing (Si)-valuing quadras. They appreciate contemplating possibilities only if they feel like they stand to gain something from it, or it has a perceived potential impact on "the real world". Unlike Si, which is about one's subjective sensory experience (how intense or enjoyable it is), Se is about achieving an object of desire. It gives one the ability to influence, bend, and push situations and people in order to achieve such an object, rather than to enjoy the situation one is in.
> 
> - See more at: Socionics Information Elements: Se


why thank you to the introduction.

Ok I should expand myself. Black and white sensing is a bit different. Whithin each of these there is a negative or positive spin depending on which quadra we are talking about. Pretty much people believe it to be simply the expression the the element when blocked up with these other valued element in these quadra. The beta quadra have a negative spin in the black sensing. It means somewhat it narrow it down to the essential (the positive spin is a adding character to it). Im by no means any expert on white sensing, I find the concept a bit boring.


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## Anonymous Disaster (Mar 15, 2016)

Captain Mclain said:


> why thank you to the introduction.
> 
> Ok I should expand myself. Black and white sensing is a bit different. Whithin each of these there is a negative or positive spin depending on which quadra we are talking about. Pretty much people believe it to be simply the expression the the element when blocked up with these other valued element in these quadra. The beta quadra have a negative spin in the black sensing. It means somewhat it narrow it down to the essential (the positive spin is a adding character to it). Im by no means any expert on white sensing, I find the concept a bit boring.


Ti blocked with Se

Beta quadra types prefer situations where the power structure and hierarchy is clearly defined according to consistent rules where ambiguities are minimized.
Beta quadra types are more confident analysing realistic characteristics of situations, people, and objects, rather than alternative and could-it-be scenarios.
Beta quadra types are inclined to attribute to a new acquaintance traits that they have previously observed in other individuals belonging to the same group as they see the new acquaintance as belonging to (Aristocracy).
Beta quadra types are inclined to look for general rules explaining people, politics, mechanisms and trends, rules that once defined can be applied generally, rather than go about things in a case-by-case way.
Beta quadra types are energized by competitive situations where analytical tactics are emphasized.
- See more at: Socionics Quadras: Beta


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

Anonymous Disaster said:


> Ti blocked with Se
> 
> Beta quadra types prefer situations where the power structure and hierarchy is clearly defined according to consistent rules where ambiguities are minimized.
> Beta quadra types are more confident analysing realistic characteristics of situations, people, and objects, rather than alternative and could-it-be scenarios.
> ...


Cool! Keep reading on that site and noone have to reply more in this thread.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

cyamitide said:


> That whole description is mistaking Beta Quadra for social instinct (so) of the enneagram.
> The social instinct is described as:
> 
> *"Social Instinct (so):* This subtype is focused on their interactions with other people and with the sense of value or esteem they derive from their participation in collective activities. These include work, family, hobbies, clubs—basically any arena in which Social types can interact with others for some shared purpose. ... Within that social instinct, however, are many other implicit imperatives, and primary among them is the understanding of "place" within a hierarchical social structure."
> ...


Yeah as soc-last I'm not fully group focused. I do care about social status tho'. So how do we separate the soc instinct from these IEs.




Captain Mclain said:


> Put it into one person and you got some easy going semi crazy somewhat seeking sleep and food in the most basic form and have a solid expression of safe emotion and continually develop theories and thinking structures.


No, this literally sounds like Alpha quadra. +Si basic necessities of sleep and food in the "most basic form", solid safe expression of Alpha Fe emotionality while developing theoretical structures by Ti+Ne.


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

myst91 said:


> No, this literally sounds like Alpha quadra. +Si basic necessities of sleep and food in the "most basic form", solid safe expression of Alpha Fe emotionality while developing theoretical structures by Ti+Ne.


Alpha is narrowing down Thinking but is expanding in Ne. It is also expainding in Fe. Giving it that goofy characteristics. 

Si is some about that overall sensation a brunch of stuff is giving you as an individual. I think a Si lead would be a lot more focus on how it sensate for them to be sleepy and hungry and mixing those sensations to make something unique. It is very different from Se that is just, if hungry then eat. If sleepy then sleep.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Captain Mclain said:


> Alpha is narrowing down Thinking but is expanding in Ne. It is also expainding in Fe. Giving it that goofy characteristics.
> 
> Si is some about that overall sensation a brunch of stuff is giving you as an individual. I think a Si lead would be a lot more focus on how it sensate for them to be sleepy and hungry and mixing those sensations to make something unique. It is very different from Se that is just, if hungry then eat. If sleepy then sleep.


Still, Beta Se isn't really just about what you wrote about. Beta Fe isn't about the solid safe expression, Beta Ti isn't just theoretical structures.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Ah, I'd say the Beta quadra is uhm, like all other quadras, a mixture of all the valued elements. 

The first thing that comes to mind when speaking about Beta is of course power, a very important theme here! Social structure, hierachy, influence and to top it all: a leader. Usually the SLE that somehow managed not to get killed (...not literally) in the proccess, or the EIE who spoke his way to the top.

However, there are some aspects that most people overlook. For example, the Beta quadra seeks unity too. A group. It relies on collective effor towards a goal; of course, a particular who somehow reached the top would have the most merit, but in this quadra we all know that the key to success (at a larger scale) lies on teamwork. When everyone gathers and does what they're best at, we can assure victory! 

Also, insight. Lots of insight. Not in a Delta fashion, all about personal growth. I'd say... a wild strand of philosophy. Perhaps too wild, but still! The Beta NF view on life is "fulfill your dreams" (can't say for sure with Beta STs, sorry), maybe. Fascination for history and mythology too, but that may be just me. 

A need for a purpose and an objective, too. Always an objective needed. What'd be the point in life without one? What'd be the struggle? Ne+Si quadras seem to believe that an everlasting peace will lead to happiness, but ehh, not really. Always aim higher, no matter what!

Hm, good parties too. Like, really good parties! Oh, and team sports. Lots of team sports.

Thinking of the collective before the individual. The sacrifice of one could save two; and no life is worth more than the other.

No man left behind, as well.

Think of the quadra divided in four main "roles" in an RPG (heh): the Tank (strongest party, takes most of the damage, initiates combat) is the SLE, the Assasin (precise attacks, waits for the right moment to strike, sneaky sneaky) is the LSI, the Monk (stays back, healing and usually organizing the party) is the IEI and the Mage (active side, remains in the middle and is usally the best AoE damage imput) is the EIE.

That's why we're the Besta quadra! We know how to get shit done - and have fun doing it!


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## Captain Mclain (Feb 22, 2014)

myst91 said:


> Still, Beta Se isn't really just about what you wrote about. Beta Fe isn't about the solid safe expression, Beta Ti isn't just theoretical structures.


Fe is still Fe in ESE and EIE. The information is the same, dealing with the same stuff. But if differ some and that is what the spins is about. What it is going for is simply the difference in how Fe express itself between two of the quadra who both value it. In beta it does seem to have a character of which the Fe is more of a narrow down thing but in alpha it is a expanding thing. When Fe narrow it down it is a very singular expression of Fe. EIE got Fe- but Ni+ and Ne-. That is the theory, I reserve to write the descriptions.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

Captain Mclain said:


> Fe is still Fe in ESE and EIE. The information is the same, dealing with the same stuff. But if differ some and that is what the spins is about. What it is going for is simply the difference in how Fe express itself between two of the quadra who both value it. In beta it does seem to have a character of which the Fe is more of a narrow down thing but in alpha it is a expanding thing. When Fe narrow it down it is a very singular expression of Fe. EIE got Fe- but Ni+ and Ne-. That is the theory, I reserve to write the descriptions.


Beta used to have +Fe until the theory changed. I'm not sure I care that much about +/- let alone deducing anything from this concept. I'll stay with observations instead.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Graveyard said:


> Think of the quadra divided in four main "roles" in an RPG (heh): the Tank (strongest party, takes most of the damage, initiates combat) is the SLE, the Assasin (precise attacks, waits for the right moment to strike, sneaky sneaky) is the LSI, the Monk (stays back, healing and usually organizing the party) is the IEI and the Mage (active side, remains in the middle and is usally the best AoE damage imput) is the EIE.
> 
> That's why we're the Besta quadra! We know how to get shit done - and have fun doing it!


Hah. By that logic I must be EIE, because I always play the mage. Although, I play the mage as the teleporter or flyer or otherwise find a way to be outside the fighting zone and blast from safety, while protecting allies and/or moving them to safety...OR I play the heavily armored mystical tank that is incredibly hard/impossible to deal damage to that uses magic to protect/heal while the party kills the enemy with the overwhelming force they can muster when they aren't the ones being attacked 

I rather like your RPG metaphor, though. roud:


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Fenix Wulfheart said:


> Hah. By that logic I must be EIE, because I always play the mage. Although, I play the mage as the teleporter or flyer or otherwise find a way to be outside the fighting zone and blast from safety, while protecting allies and/or moving them to safety...OR I play the heavily armored mystical tank that is incredibly hard/impossible to deal damage to that uses magic to protect/heal while the party kills the enemy with the overwhelming force they can muster when they aren't the ones being attacked
> 
> I rather like your RPG metaphor, though. roud:


Hahah, I like mages too! Mostly mages with buffs and debuffs tho, but heavy DPS/AoE damage is delicious. My main focus is always the support role, however. I like to play as Sona/Janna/Soraka in League of Legends, because I don't feel confident enough to jump in to battle, so I help others. 

(And I'd LOVE playing Mercy in Overwatch)

The tank is also good, but not what I usually play.

And thank you!


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Graveyard said:


> Hahah, I like mages too! Mostly mages with buffs and debuffs tho, but heavy DPS/AoE damage is delicious. My main focus is always the support role, however. I like to play as Sona/Janna/Soraka in League of Legends, because I don't feel confident enough to jump in to battle, so I help others.
> 
> (And I'd LOVE playing Mercy in Overwatch)
> 
> ...


Oh, I don't play much LoL. Let me see, who did I play a bunch...what was his name...Atrox? He is like this blood warrior that paid for his abilities in life points but got tons of lifesteal. I liked him for ganking, and played jungle. Which people thought was weird XD. Oh, and EZREAL. I ADORE Ezreal because magic-based attack speed. With him, you can easily build lifesteal and aura - regenerate allies to play the inexhaustible font of eldtritch healing and damage. I also played a bit of Lee Sin and Annie.

OH< and Riven. She was the last one I got before I stopped playing.

Soraka sounds familiar, what is she specialized in? Which one is she?

I didn't have many champs though. :/

You are very welcome


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Fenix Wulfheart said:


> Oh, I don't play much LoL. Let me see, who did I play a bunch...what was his name...Atrox? He is like this blood warrior that paid for his abilities in life points but got tons of lifesteal. I liked him for ganking, and played jungle. Which people thought was weird XD. Oh, and EZREAL. I ADORE Ezreal because magic-based attack speed. With him, you can easily build lifesteal and aura - regenerate allies to play the inexhaustible font of eldtritch healing and damage. I also played a bit of Lee Sin and Annie.
> 
> Soraka sounds familiar, what is she specialized in? Which one is she?
> 
> ...


Aatrox, yes! He is a tank indeed, and uses health instead of mana, correct. He's really strong and usually used for top lane rather than the jungle, but still useful! Ezreal is a good ADC and has nice skills. He was, oddly enough, designed to be a mage, but because he had a good ADC potential he circles around that nowadays. He doesn't heal anymore, though.

Soraka is the de facto healer of LoL. She's a support, and has two heals - even her passive ability is to run towards injured allies. She's the unicorn that shoots bananas out of her wand. 

I don't play anymore, but it was sure fun.

<3


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

Graveyard said:


> Aatrox, yes! He is a tank indeed, and uses health instead of mana, correct. He's really strong and usually used for top lane rather than the jungle, but still useful! Ezreal is a good ADC and has nice skills. He was, oddly enough, designed to be a mage, but because he had a good ADC potential he circles around that nowadays. He doesn't heal anymore, though.
> 
> Soraka is the de facto healer of LoL. She's a support, and has two heals - even her passive ability is to run towards injured allies. She's the unicorn that shoots bananas out of her wand.
> 
> ...


Unicorn...that shoots bananas...out of her...wand...

K, seems legit. XD

Oh, I don't remember if Ezreal had a heal ability, but I used some item for late game build that heals all allies within a radius of you. Useful for pushing with a support backup and the jungler showing up for a tower takedown. With lifesteal and insane attack speed, it was working really well. I'm sure he is quite different now though.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Fenix Wulfheart said:


> Unicorn...that shoots bananas...out of her...wand...
> 
> K, seems legit. XD
> 
> Oh, I don't remember if Ezreal had a heal ability, but I used some item for late game build that heals all allies within a radius of you. Useful for pushing with a support backup and the jungler showing up for a tower takedown. With lifesteal and insane attack speed, it was working really well. I'm sure he is quite different now though.


Soraka is a starchild. She has purple skin, goat-like legs and a horn in the middle of her forehead. Her wand shoots quarter moons that look like bananas. The jokes has gone so far, Riot Games actually made a Soraka Banana skin! 






Oh he hasn't changed much. He doesn't heal now, but other than that, he's the same blondie. The metagame is very different tho, so don't expect to pull the same plays you used to if you ever play again. :B


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Ahh people talking about League! Can I join in?

I like playing ADC the best because I just love the concept of dps in general. Consistent physical damage, excellent scaling and overall impact, so much positioning and instinct involved. ADCs also feel so clean, precise, and reliable. 

I also just tend to like physical damage over magic damage cause it often feels more real and less gimmicky. Also doesn't expend mana, which I just fucking detest as a resource lol because I'm so bad at managing it. There's a reason I spam Vayne, Tristana, Sivir and the like, as opposed to Lucian, Jhin or Graves, who are bursty caster ADCs. 

I do play mages and supports occasionally though. I don't think I could play tanks/frontlines and hardcore assassins. They're really not my playstyle.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> Ahh people talking about League! Can I join in?
> 
> I like playing ADC the best because I just love the concept of dps in general. Consistent physical damage, excellent scaling and overall impact, so much positioning and instinct involved. ADCs also feel so clean, precise, and reliable.
> 
> ...


Funny; I never have problems managing mana. ...except in Diablo. That's one painful game.

But I don't like physical damage; I'm not used to auto attacking and I'd rather burst the hell out of someone in, say, two skills, than sustain damage per second - knowing tanks will just laugh it off. Unless you're Vayne. But bursty damage is easy to calculate, and you aren't exposed to the imminent death other roles endure!

In fact, the reason I loved Jhin so much (other than his concept), was that he felt as a mage rather than an ADC. <3


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Graveyard said:


> Funny; I never have problems managing mana. ...except in Diablo. That's one painful game.
> 
> But I don't like physical damage; I'm not used to auto attacking and I'd rather burst the hell out of someone in, say, two skills, than sustain damage per second - knowing tanks will just laugh it off. Unless you're Vayne. But bursty damage is easy to calculate, and you aren't exposed to the imminent death other roles endure!
> 
> In fact, the reason I loved Jhin so much (other than his concept), was that he felt as a mage rather than an ADC. <3


It's interesting how you see the burst caster's role lol. I actually find deleting people like that pretty difficult, because I can't tell when to go in and unload my full combo and when to stay back. It's part of why playing mid lane feels clunky to me. I pull the adc tactic of farming, poking down and pushing them into tower, but after that I don't know what to do. Then the enemy mid laner flashes forward, does their whole shtick and I'm basically done for even though mechanically speaking the lane was pretty even/in my favor. Simply because timing and damage calculation are tough for me (at this point). 

Honestly Vayne was basically a video game character written FOR me or something. She is basically an extension of my hand and I say that even though I barely get time to play League.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> It's interesting how you see the burst caster's role lol. I actually find deleting people like that pretty difficult, because I can't tell when to go in and unload my full combo and when to stay back. It's part of why playing mid lane feels clunky to me. I pull the adc tactic of farming, poking down and pushing them into tower, but after that I don't know what to do. Then the enemy mid laner flashes forward, does their whole shtick and I'm basically done for even though mechanically speaking the lane was pretty even/in my favor. Simply because timing and damage calculation are tough for me (at this point).
> 
> Honestly Vayne was basically a video game character written FOR me or something. She is basically an extension of my hand and I say that even though I barely get time to play League.


Well, for me it's rather instinctive. I guess that's where the Ni comes to play? Heh, dunno! But knowing how and when to delete someone is easy. Just requires a little observation. I don't look at the map as much as I should, so yeah, I'm still prone to being deleted myself. 

I've tried being an ADC, but I'm so focused on the long term goal that I end up lacking the farming. Also, as an ADC, once you get your core item you're expected to rock the bottom lane if you're not too behind. Then roam a little with your support; or not, if you're that good.

I feel Zyra was my godsent. The whole "let the plants do it for me" is... the best. I will never find a better fit for me in LoL. <3


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Graveyard said:


> Well, for me it's rather instinctive. I guess that's where the Ni comes to play? Heh, dunno! But knowing how and when to delete someone is easy. Just requires a little observation. I don't look at the map as much as I should, so yeah, I'm still prone to being deleted myself.
> 
> I've tried being an ADC, but I'm so focused on the long term goal that I end up lacking the farming. Also, as an ADC, once you get your core item you're expected to rock the bottom lane if you're not too behind. Then roam a little with your support; or not, if you're that good.
> 
> I feel Zyra was my godsent. The whole "let the plants do it for me" is... the best. I will never find a better fit for me in LoL. <3


I'm not brilliant at farming myself, lol. I think my greatest strength as an ADC is my decision-making, involvement, and positioning. With my favorite ADCs (Vayne, Sivir, MF) I can basically win any lane. Actually, Tristana is one of my favorites too, but I'm not that good at winning lane with her. /sad

Did you hear about Zyra's update? She's gonna be a real beast soon. I think you will enjoy her even more.


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## Lord Fenix Wulfheart (Aug 18, 2015)

I started playing again. I have been jungling Aatrox. It works surprisingly well.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> I'm not brilliant at farming myself, lol. I think my greatest strength as an ADC is my decision-making, involvement, and positioning. With my favorite ADCs (Vayne, Sivir, MF) I can basically win any lane. Actually, Tristana is one of my favorites too, but I'm not that good at winning lane with her. /sad
> 
> Did you hear about Zyra's update? She's gonna be a real beast soon. I think you will enjoy her even more.


Sounds like the kind of ADC I'd like to support. But I like it when I play with an MF rather than Vayne. MF feels much more... powerful. Also Ashe.

Zyra's gonna be a BEAST yo! Early access to sheed is the best that could have happened to her. The updated Q is eh, a bit pesky, but the new plants growth range is lovely, lovely. <3


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Fenix Wulfheart said:


> I started playing again. I have been jungling Aatrox. It works surprisingly well.


Yay! Welcome back!


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Graveyard said:


> Sounds like the kind of ADC I'd like to support.


Aww :blushed:



> But I like it when I play with an MF rather than Vayne. MF feels much more... powerful. Also Ashe.


Yes, in terms of power Vayne is basically shit tier right now XD But I can't help it, I just love playing her no matter what the meta says. MF is great. Gosh, the feel when you hit her 150%-extra-damage-Q.



> Zyra's gonna be a BEAST yo! Early access to sheed is the best that could have happened to her. The updated Q is eh, a bit pesky, but the new plants growth range is lovely, lovely. <3


I'm really excited for her. She always had a great concept and I hope this will flesh it out for real. (Never mind that I barely know how to play her.) Why is the Q pesky?


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> Aww :blushed:


We should give it a try. 



> Yes, in terms of power Vayne is basically shit tier right now XD But I can't help it, I just love playing her no matter what the meta says. MF is great. Gosh, the feel when you hit her 150%-extra-damage-Q.


Is it the personality, or do you just like to hop around the map with her Q? 

Though I get you, I love playing outdated champions, such as Janna. She's ageless, I know, but the meta does not like her very much. 



> I'm really excited for her. She always had a great concept and I hope this will flesh it out for real. (Never mind that I barely know how to play her.) Why is the Q pesky?


Her playstyle is very territorial and dominant, actually. You pressure other players with your plants, who do amazing poke damage, and your strong CC. With TONS of damage!

Well, the old Q was easier to land and calculate. The new one is exactly like Malzahar's Q and uhm... I've never been fond of it.


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## cyamitide (Jul 8, 2010)

so Beta is the quadra of Aatrox?

*takes notes*

:tongue:


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Graveyard said:


> We should give it a try.


YES! <3

(I'm just gold 5 though please don't judge lol)



> Is it the personality, or do you just like to hop around the map with her Q?
> 
> Though I get you, I love playing outdated champions, such as Janna. She's ageless, I know, but the meta does not like her very much.


It's both. She's righteous, principled, and no-nonsense. Honestly I've been playing her for a couple of years now but "Let us hunt those who have fallen to darkness" never fails to excite me like, hell yeah, we're gonna _wreck everyone's shit now! _But her mechanics also feel very easy and intuitive for me. 

Janna never falls out of style~ I'm sure she will be back as a tier 1 support soon enough. Riot is experimenting with a lot of stuff atm.



> Her playstyle is very territorial and dominant, actually. You pressure other players with your plants, who do amazing poke damage, and your strong CC. With TONS of damage!
> 
> Well, the old Q was easier to land and calculate. The new one is exactly like Malzahar's Q and uhm... I've never been fond of it.


That's true. But I always felt like just two plants at a time... ehh, just was not enough for her. The rework's really gonna let her go wild ^^

Yeah, Malza's Q never felt smart to me. It has a weirdly constructed hitbox and the cast time is so funny. Can't deny the damage is ridiculous though lolz.



cyamitide said:


> so Beta is the quadra of Aatrox?
> 
> *takes notes*
> 
> :tongue:


I love his quotes!

_"I am as timeless as war."

_^ I want to engrave that one into my fucking soul.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> YES! <3
> 
> (I'm just gold 5 though please don't judge lol)


Hah, you're funny! I'm not even level 30! 



Night Huntress said:


> It's both. She's righteous, principled, and no-nonsense. Honestly I've been playing her for a couple of years now but "Let us hunt those who have fallen to darkness" never fails to excite me like, hell yeah, we're gonna _wreck everyone's shit now! _But her mechanics also feel very easy and intuitive for me.
> 
> Janna never falls out of style~ I'm sure she will be back as a tier 1 support soon enough. Riot is experimenting with a lot of stuff atm.


I always thought Vayne was an ESI, actually. And her quotes really give that impression. 

Her playstyle was never exciting for me though. It feels all over the place and too hard to execute, at least for such a passive player as me. *Hides Zyra under the bush* Why do they? I thought she was very hard to master.

Yeah, it'd be nice for her to jump back into the meta, but I don't want Riot to touch her. That'd alter the almost pristine kit of Janna. :C



Night Huntress said:


> That's true. But I always felt like just two plants at a time... ehh, just was not enough for her. The rework's really gonna let her go wild ^^
> 
> Yeah, Malza's Q never felt smart to me. It has a weirdly constructed hitbox and the cast time is so funny. Can't deny the damage is ridiculous though lolz.


It's not limited to two plants at a time. Well, it wasn't before either! She had a cooldown, but she could have up to four plants at maximum CDR and I believe six seeds. But now she doesn't need full CDR to do that! 

The hitbox was never good. Doesn't feel intuitive, is rather small and the delay doesn't help the cause. 
I want the old Q. :CCCC


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Graveyard said:


> Hah, you're funny! I'm not even level 30!


lol really? You seem to have great game knowledge though, you could easily pass for someone much higher in rank!



> I always thought Vayne was an ESI, actually. And her quotes really give that impression.
> 
> Her playstyle was never exciting for me though. It feels all over the place and too hard to execute, at least for such a passive player as me. *Hides Zyra under the bush* Why do they? I thought she was very hard to master.


Yeah, she took a lot of time for me to pick up and I still am getting better every day. I kinda like champs with a high skill cap cause I feel more satisfied learning them ;P 

I guess she would feel "all over the place" for someone used to control mages. She's very dynamic and situationally dependent and if you make one positioning mistake you're deleted from the teamfight. It's exhilarating! 

Did you ever notice why my PerC name is what it is? PPP

I wish I was good at control mages though! They have so much power over entire zones of the lane and just so much presence overall. They can really force an entire team out of a fight just by standing back and doing their thing.



> Yeah, it'd be nice for her to jump back into the meta, but I don't want Riot to touch her. That'd alter the almost pristine kit of Janna. :C


True, some supports are just so beautiful in their original design that they should basically never be changed. Case in point, Thresh and Janna. I seriously believe Thresh is the most thematically solid, intriguing, and well-executed champion Riot has made. He's reliable, his kit is fairly straightforward and yet has several levels of mechanical demand.



> It's not limited to two plants at a time. Well, it wasn't before either! She had a cooldown, but she could have up to four plants at maximum CDR and I believe six seeds. But now she doesn't need full CDR to do that!


_Really?_ Holy hell, I never knew that. She's a lot more powerful than I thought, then..



> The hitbox was never good. Doesn't feel intuitive, is rather small and the delay doesn't help the cause.
> I want the old Q. :CCCC


yeah, delayed skillshots just make me sad, honestly. Half a second means everything.


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## Graveyard (Oct 23, 2015)

Night Huntress said:


> lol really? You seem to have great game knowledge though, you could easily pass for someone much higher in rank!


Heh, so I've been told. I usually soak up lots of information about games and the competitive meta, but I rarely ever execute it. I'm currently level 17 only because my computer is absolute shite and I can't play anymore. A new one is on the line, though.

But my friends tell me I'm a good player despite my level. Not too high rank, sadly. 



Night Huntress said:


> Yeah, she took a lot of time for me to pick up and I still am getting better every day. I kinda like champs with a high skill cap cause I feel more satisfied learning them ;P
> 
> I guess she would feel "all over the place" for someone used to control mages. She's very dynamic and situationally dependent and if you make one positioning mistake you're deleted from the teamfight. It's exhilarating!
> 
> Did you ever notice why my PerC name is what it is? PPP


Me too! And oddly enough, I perfom better with complex champions on the first try than I do with simple ones. Like Viktor, who I totally adore (<3). But I can't play Lux. Too easy, too simple; baffles me! I need something exciting! 

I can see that, and I don't even play her. I just can't picture the effectiveness of Vayne unless a good player shows me. And even then, I'm surprised they don't smash the keyboard and hope for the best!

Like it wasn't obvious, hah!



Night Huntress said:


> I wish I was good at control mages though! They have so much power over entire zones of the lane and just so much presence overall. They can really force an entire team out of a fight just by standing back and doing their thing.


That's what I love about 'em! Zyra and Viktor the most. They have such a strong presence without actually doing much themselves; Zyra pressuring with plants and Viktor with his laser. But I think ADCs deserve a special mention; they're capable of destroying an entire team if played correctly.



Night Huntress said:


> True, some supports are just so beautiful in their original design that they should basically never be changed. Case in point, Thresh and Janna. I seriously believe Thresh is the most thematically solid, intriguing, and well-executed champion Riot has made. He's reliable, his kit is fairly straightforward and yet has several levels of mechanical demand.


Thresh is simply perfect. All around. I mean, the Meta sure does fuck him over from time to time, but he's a solid pick in most cases. He can do so much with his well designed kit, it's amazing. I bet most of the stuff he's capable of wasn't planned! And regarding his theme, yes. He's one of these champions with such a solid personality, you feel actually threatened sometimes.



Night Huntress said:


> _Really?_ Holy hell, I never knew that. She's a lot more powerful than I thought, then..


Yeah, I was surprised at first too. Strong CC, AoE ulti, and mini-turrets at will (now even from level 1) = scary.



Night Huntress said:


> yeah, delayed skillshots just make me sad, honestly. Half a second means everything.


I hate delayed abilities overall. They're so easily avoided.


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