# INFJ, ISTJ or INTJ? Help me please



## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

I actually looked at it more closely and came to the conclusion that I am an INFP. A little bit more loud one and I can also be practical If I want to (i suppose this is because my parents seem to be SJs), but deeply inside I am an INFP  Also what is interesting, the preferable careers (yes, I know I shouldn't believe them, as this is only suggestion, but it suggests something) is like the list of things I ever considered doing with my life. 

Thank you all very, very much. You clarified everything and actually helped me understand the functions (which I previously ignored. I feel so stupid now ). And now I see why am I similar to my ISTJ friend, but still different (for her fullfiling duties comes much more natural, even If I also can do it). 

Thanks again!


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

Murky Muse said:


> *Thinking about it more, I define "my way" as "the best way I currently know how to do something" while stone100674 seems to define it as "the way I've always done something".


Close, it isn't the way I have always done something, but rather what I can prove works. A theoretical concept that "might" save time, in my mind can cause a loss of time in that you have to fix something when it goes wrong, and I see no value in that. Si gives me confidence in the tried and true while inferior Ne assures me that the untested is likely to fail.


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## stone100674 (Jun 22, 2012)

juliastark said:


> So I've been reading a lot about functions today, I did some kind of a test which doesn't describe your MBTI type but just functions (which someone recommended on this sire) and it said that my functions are: Te Si Ni Fi (it is not in order. I scored Ni very high). So I started digging (as Te Si Ni Fi is impossible to be) and I discovered that use Ne (which was also high on the test) and not Ni.
> 
> So I ended up with Ne Te Si Fi. So I am able to narrow down to two types: INFP and ISTJ. And this is the moment in which I have hard time deciding.
> 
> ...


I noticed in your questionnaire you mentioned your father recently passed away, first you have my condolences. Second, how would you feel about telling me how you reacted to that? If you don't want to I fully understand and apologize for asking and if you don't want to put it in an open forum you can PM me.


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## amatsuki (Apr 17, 2012)

@Acerbusvenator has called me here, so here I have been called.

You sound a lot like me. I pride myself in logical thinking and organization (Layton games and sorting magic cards into the right colours) but am not so good with math. I only assume leadership if no one else does, because though I can, If someone else does and I try at the same time, I'm usually the one overlooked anyway. I'm aware of others and their feelings (to a fault) but I can also be very standoffish when I don't feel like 'people time'. I plan things really well (though I hate to) but the follow up might not turn out so perfect because of my adapting attitude ("we'll have this great plan but we wont necessarily follow it unless we have to"). People who only use you for results annoy me too. I don't usually let them see unless I'm friends with them. If they're not my friend, I tell them they should hurry and make their own notes. I'm also sensitive, like keeping options open, etc etc.

You mention that you're in a difficult family situation (to which I hope all is resolved in a good way for everyone) and I find that personally, emotionally stressing situations like that bring out my logical and rational side more, and I slide into a more INTJ sort of mode. Remember that different situations will push your preferences for certain functions harder, and so if you're taking tests now, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up with a result in something more T. I definitely think you're Fi, as well.



juliastark said:


> Hmm... It's interesting.This description of stressing out really suits me perfectly.
> However, I don't think I could possibly be P. ISFP doesn't suit me. I am a huge planner, I live in the future or past or alternative world (almost never in the present, and isn't that characterisitc for an ISFP?). I am stressing out a lot (aren't ISFPs more carefree?). Additionally, I And I'm not sure if I am that artistic. I mean I like arts, and I love writing however there are more things I like more (like psychology ) And I also found this description, which doesn't suit me: ISFPs live in the world of sensation possibilities. They are keenly in tune with the way things look, taste, sound, feel and smell.


Type descriptions are incredibly general. It could be like 'They are kind' but then, anyone can be kind. We're kind at different times and we show our kindness in different ways. Don't take them so seriously. I plan huge too. I planned a group trip for myself and my friends. House, food costs, etc etc. I have been told many times that I need to focus on the present. I stress out a lot, especially when deadlines get closer (My most recent deadline was yesterday, so I'm pretty chillax now ) and I'm pretty shit at art, tbh. I like psychology too, and I enjoy reading about it despite not liking reading in general. I think you can be a P, so don't be so quick to cut it just yet. I can't relate to any of the ISFP threads when i'm under stress either. 

You mentioned earlier that you can read other people's emotions. It's like picking up small cues in their speech and hints in their body language. It's not a skill that I think many people have, since a most people hide emotions out of social etiquette. If you think you can read other people's emotions well, You might be pretty strong with Se. NFs are also good at this, but I wouldn't be able to tell you why, because I don't read enough or jump through their topics often enough. So maybe I'm completely wrong :'D

ISFPs have a really bad general description in that it could apply to any person with a gentle demeanour, but I assure you that we're not all art buddhas or something. I'm neither patient nor forgiving (sadly). Subjectivity and objectivity both have a place in the world, and so I wouldn't say I prefer one or the other, but use them as tools - the right one for the right situation. Don't read into stereotypes so much, and maybe take a look at this. 

I don't know what you are, but definitely Fi.


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## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

Thank you,* @amatsuki*!  I guess that it could be possible that I am very close to Se and very close to Ni, and that is why I can find many similarities between me and ISFPs. However, I think that Ne is really important in my personality. I've read that it is responsible for all those "what if's" and I am a person, who can generally create 1000 of those in a second  However this part of Se traits seems to describe me:

_"We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context. __An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention."_

But I still feel like Si describes me much much more. Maybe I'm just really close to both? Or maybe, my dad was Se or my mum, and that is why I have also Se tendencies?



I lately noticed some contrasts in my personality and I feel like discussing them. 

I don't know what it means and if it may be helpful in describing my functions, but I feel like my nature is very practical - I don't waste money quickly, I can calculate which option will be most comfortable/quick/reasonable. For example I could easily compare and calculate subjects, which will be best for me to study in high school to get me more options for applying to universities etc. 
I can also sometimes very objectively look at others people's problems and, as we noticed before, I have this
"INTJ mode on" and I look at my problems with the same attitude.

However, then I feel like I'm not acting practical at all  I waste the whole day in front of the computer, I don't even follow my list of things to do (and then I freak out), I want to study psychology (which is perceived in my country as a bad course, because there are so many psychologists. If I were truly practical I would study languages, like Chinese). 
Also, when it comes to love and relationships I feel like I have this IDEA of love and that is why everyone that likes me is "not good enough" and those who I like are usually those mean, flirting, but intelligent jerks, who kind of remind me of ENTJs (and saying that I don't want to offend ENTJs  They can be very cool!)... And those kind of people don't like people like me (because I am more like: _"better stay at home and scroll tumblr for the whole day", "party - nah, boring", "omg I just want to talk about the meaning of life and death, why are you cutting this conversation already", "let's have philosophical conversation in the middle of the night"_). And of course, I am aware of the fact that my scenario is almost always the same - a normal guy seems to like me, but I ignore him, because I am in love with some guy I barely know, but who I am just attracted to. And I know, that love is probably not the subject, which can be discussed in terms of like "practical decisions" and "impractical decisions", but I can see how some of my friends don't expect fireworks and disney-like relationship - they can just slowly fell in love with the person, don't think to much about everything and seize the moment and the fact that they are adored.

What is interesiting - I want someone to love me, but when I discover that someone actually is interested in me, I tend to freak out and I want them to change their mind and I feel somehow... guilty? Weird, I know. 

But what's more about contrasts, I feel like I am idealistic and very non idealistic at the same time. So I deeply want beautiful love, but on the other hand I sometimes have skeptical thoughts like: _"there is no love, just biology_" (INTJ mode again?). Or, I somehow don't expect much from the future (_"come on, I can't achieve a lot. Let's be serious"_) but for the past 3 years I've been dreaming about Cambridge University (which is the best university in Europe) and lately, when I finally noticed that it's not very likely that I will get in, I was really crushed and I felt like my life makes no sense anymore (now it is better, but it was really hard for me to let go). So actually, my reason says me "_do not expect much from the future"_, but my heart dreams about perfect job, which I am completely passionate about. 

Also, I usually have this goal in my life (like before - Cambridge University) and I plan a lot, but I never have the determination to actually achieve something. There are people, who can work hard for their success for like 10 years. I have short bursts of huge motivation, but then I burn out easily and I feel like I actually do nothing, and I start thinking, how it doesn't make sense and what if I will work hard and then I won't achieve my goal anyway and how crushed I will be then. So I have those idealistic dreams in my head but I usually have no strenght to actually achieve them. 

Other contrasts: even if I usually don't like to take responsibilities and I'm not the boss (so I am not the school president, I don't want to officialy take care of events like charity organisations etc), it very often turns out that actually my voice is really important and I influence a lot of decisions. Also, when we are doing some kind of a project, I am not usually "the boss" as written on the paper, but I am the one who has most ideas and gives directions etc. It is probably because I can plan everything so logically and I can see the bigger picture, which others tend to skip (and they only focus on the result, completely ignoring the process and rational point of view. For example: we were having some kind of a school event and me and my class of 20 people were doing decorations and planning things, it somehow turned out that I am the coordinator, even If I didn't want to. I just had the most ideas and I was able to plan, what everyone is supposed to do, to get the work done quickly and to get the best result. But I don't like being the boss, it stresses me out. I like to work alone and be my own boss. But unfortunately, I don't know how, someone usually decides that I will be the responsible one, or I somehow have many ideas and start deciding for others, what they are supposed to do... Or maybe it is different. Maybe I am the one that cares? It sounds a little bit like ISTJ to me, but on the other hand my ISTJ friend isn't that good of a boss, because she is to shy. But when it comes to everyday life, she is much more focused on duties. 

Also I know, that I naturally tend to think that my idea is best. However, I don't stick to it. My second instinct, which appears very quickly, is to say "_but we don't have to do it my way. Your idea is also good. However, this aspect of your idea makes no sense, let's change it. But, you know what, do what you want_". 

The other aspect of my personality is that when me and my friends are doing something, even for fun (like for example filming a parody), I tend to get very serious. I like to focus on things and do them good and I get nervous when others fool around and don't take it that seriously (ISTJ mode again?). That is why I usually want to do things alone, because then I can easily dig into them and I am not interrupted. In the group there is often chaos and people tend to be very playful and I lately noticed, that it annoys me. When I like some kind of idea I have this huge burst of energy to make it real and I feel really passionate about it. I am really motivated to work and do it the best way I can (but only when I like the idea of doing it).
I feel like I am the only one in my environment who gets so excited about ideas, for example: when I discovered my INFP nature I couldn't sleep because I was genuinely happy (but not a little bit happy, it was this real excitement. I also have the same feeling after writing fan fiction. My friends have this feeling after going to a party. When I go to a party, I want to leave in the middle). 

Oh my. This message is soo long  I hope that anyone will be able to read it all. But I just noticed that there are so many contrasts in me and I think that they are most confusing aspects of my personality.


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## Shazzette (May 26, 2012)

The simplest way is to stop reading about all the different types and to actually take a test. Make even take two or three different tests and see if the same results come up, or if one naturally feels like a better fit.

You might find that you test as a different type completely to what you think.


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## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

Well, many people on the forum say that tests are actually valid, because they are based on stereotypes. I find it much easier to read the whole description of Si, Se etc and decide which one suits me best than answer on questions like: "Would you rather be called practical or idealistic", because it all depends. 

Most tests describe me as an INTJ, which, I discovered, is not true.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Shazzette said:


> The simplest way is to stop reading about all the different types and to actually take a test. Make even take two or three different tests and see if the same results come up, or if one naturally feels like a better fit.
> 
> You might find that you test as a different type completely to what you think.


Tests don't help, they do more damage than help if you trust them.
I did one just a few days ago to entertain someone and it told me that I was an ISTP, lol (anyone who knows me even partially would die of laughter).

Cognitive function tests are even worse since they make people confused about the functions.


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## Shazzette (May 26, 2012)

juliastark said:


> Well, many people on the forum say that tests are actually valid, because they are based on stereotypes. I find it much easier to read the whole description of Si, Se etc and decide which one suits me best than answer on questions like: "Would you rather be called practical or idealistic", because it all depends.
> 
> Most tests describe me as an INTJ, which, I discovered, is not true.


You know what I think? You're afraid to make a decision.


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## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

Shazzette said:


> You know what I think? You're afraid to make a decision.


Well, I don't think it's about the fear of making the decision. It's more about noticing the complicity of one's personality and trying to understand it best.


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## Shazzette (May 26, 2012)

juliastark said:


> Well, I don't think it's about the fear of making the decision. It's more about noticing the complicity of one's personality and trying to understand it best.


If you say so. Sigh ...


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Shazzette said:


> If you say so. Sigh ...


If you can't deal with people being uncertain, then I feel I must question the wisdom of you being in this section of the forum.


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## Shazzette (May 26, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> If you can't deal with people being uncertain, then I feel I must question the wisdom of you being in this section of the forum.


So basically you're saying this section isn't for people who want to make a decision, but rather a place where they can avoid doing so? And what you'd like me to do is stop commenting on this thread and leave?

If you had not felt the need made such a ridiculous remark, I would have left this thread well alone and made no further comments as I am intelligent enough to see for myself that any advice I have to offer is unwanted and of no practical use here. 

Or to put it another way: My advice was immediately dismissed as wrong and unhelpful without any kind of consideration. That hurt my feelings.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Shazzette said:


> So basically you're saying this section isn't for people who want to make a decision, but rather a place where they can avoid doing so? And what you'd like me to do is stop commenting on this thread and leave?


Juliastark will decide when she feels certain.
What I specifically meant was that this is the section that people come to when they are uncertain and not everyone is gullible enough to swallow whatever people try to feed them. 

Yes, reading the type profiles is a waste of time, but so is taking tests.
I am sorry if you felt offended by that, but it is common knowledge to everyone who has been around for a while that tests are shitty and the only way to really understand MBTI and to find your type is to read up on the functions (the latter can also be done here with the help of others).
This part of the forum is specifically made to help uncertain people to shorten the trip to finding their type so they can get back to trying to understand their strengths and weakness.

Most people don't go here if they believe that taking free online tests based on stereotypes would be the solution. They go here because they know that tests are bad or because tests are the reason that they are confused in the first place.


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## Shazzette (May 26, 2012)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Juliastark will decide when she feels certain.
> What I specifically meant was that this is the section that people come to when they are uncertain and not everyone is gullible enough to swallow whatever people try to feed them.
> 
> Yes, reading the type profiles is a waste of time, but so is taking tests.
> ...


Well, that post certainly told me everything I need to know. 

Didn't change my opinion on anything, but it certainly taught me a thing or two ...


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## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

Hi!  Sorry, it's me being curious again.

So I think I am certain of my Ne-Si functions, however I still wonder, why some of you were sure that I cannot be a Fe user? I'm asking, because I started reading about ISFJs and I find many connections between them and me.
I am stil uncertain about INFP, because as I said before I am a planner, organizer, hardworker, and they seem much more carefree...

Edit: Actually I have a problem with P, because I feel like I am a J... When I read that Ps "play before work" or "are very flexible" it doesn't seem right...
But actually the same is with S. I feel like I am N. My intuition is important. 
Hahah why do INFJs have functions which don't suit me. It would be much easier ;D


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## Trinidad (Apr 16, 2010)

juliastark said:


> Hi!  Sorry, it's me being curious again.
> 
> So I think I am certain of my Ne-Si functions, however I still wonder, why some of you were sure that I cannot be a Fe user? I'm asking, because I started reading about ISFJs and I find many connections between them and me.
> I am stil uncertain about INFP, because as I said before I am a planner, organizer, hardworker, and they seem much more carefree...
> ...


Hi, I read the first page a while ago and stumbled upon your topic again today.

Funnily enough I got a very ISFJ vibe from the start and watched you roam through INTJ, ISTJ, ISFP, INFP... Seeing as ISFJ is a type most people don't find as interesting as the iNtuitives, I waited for you to arrive here yourself 

I know several ISFJ's in real life, the way you descibe yourself is very similar to them. I can't pinpoint exactly _why _I believe you to be ISFJ, it's a hunch (sensors have intuition too, you know).


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## soppixo (Jun 29, 2011)

juliastark said:


> Hi!  Sorry, it's me being curious again.
> 
> So I think I am certain of my Ne-Si functions, however I still wonder, why some of you were sure that I cannot be a Fe user? I'm asking, because I started reading about ISFJs and I find many connections between them and me.
> I am stil uncertain about INFP, because as I said before I am a planner, organizer, hardworker, and they seem much more carefree...
> ...


You shouldn't read stereotypes. And try not to focus on P/J. That last letter merely indicates which function you prefer to extrovert. For example a xSTJ extroverts their judging function, Te. While a xSTP extroverts their perceiving function, Se. I/E merely determines if that extroverted function is the Dominant (E) or the Auxiliary (I). 

Questions of discipline, procrastination, aka outward behavior is heavily affected by the environment and culture a person lives in. MBTI merely tells you how you make decisions and collect information, not how you would behave if you were this type or that type. This is why I'd always advise you to refrain from using typology websites as your only source and to look further into forum threads where people describe how they utilize and manifest their functions.

I do not think you're a FJ / TP because I keep seeing Fi and not Fe. But I'm typing you from text, and there is only so much information I can glean. You would be a better judge of your own functions if you have a good understanding of what Fi or Fe is, and how you recognize it in yourself.

*Basically:*

Fe:
Defines personal values from outside environment. Emotional stability dependent on outer harmony.

Fi:
Defines outside environment through personal values. Emotional stability dependent on inner harmony.


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## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

Trinidad said:


> Hi, I read the first page a while ago and stumbled upon your topic again today.
> 
> Funnily enough I got a very ISFJ vibe from the start and watched you roam through INTJ, ISTJ, ISFP, INFP... Seeing as ISFJ is a type most people don't find as interesting as the iNtuitives, I waited for you to arrive here yourself
> 
> I know several ISFJ's in real life, the way you descibe yourself is very similar to them. I can't pinpoint exactly _why _I believe you to be ISFJ, it's a hunch (sensors have intuition too, you know).


Hahaha interesting  

But I'm still not sure... I mean they have Fe and Ti, which I am not certain about. They seem to be veeery connected to senses. And also don't suit me perfectly. I mean, they seem to feel very good in a community and I am a huge individualist (yes, I know many people in my age say things like that, but the thing is that, I really am. I do not listen to music that most people hate, I hate parties, I don't like going to school, even If I'm not bullied or anything, I even didn't go to school trip, despite the fact that all my best friends did). 
Also I would like to have a more free job... I mean it is really hard to explain, but when I am in an environment that requires doing tasks etc - I will. But I don't like that, I don't like school pressure (even If I'm one of the bests). 

When I read descriptions INFJ seems like the best fit, but the functions... not really (what a paradox.)

Maybe I should just forget about it and stick to IxFx  The more I read, the more unsure I am.


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## soppixo (Jun 29, 2011)

To use your own experience as an example:


> Also people who don't care about school or stuff like that usually annoy me, because they are chilled and cool and then, two days before exams, they start begging me for my notes. I can help others with studying and I do so, but only if those people care about it too, and not ignore everything and go to a party, because then they will take advantage of someone who was actually working hard and making notes.


Fe:
This isn't so good, but I can see that they're in distress. Even though I don't agree with what they're doing, because I want to make them happy I will help them. Even though it goes against my belief of working hard, I do not want to see my friends sad and unhappy.

Fi:
This isn't so good, I can see they're in distress but they brought it upon themselves. I believe in playing hard but also in working hard, if they aren't going to bother then I don't see why I should. Even if we are friends, they should be responsible for themselves.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Maybe the link in my signature can help you or maybe this: http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...out-what-type-i-am-infp-infj-enfp-enfj.html#4

:happy:


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## Trinidad (Apr 16, 2010)

juliastark said:


> Hahaha interesting
> 
> But I'm still not sure... I mean they have Fe and Ti, which I am not certain about. They seem to be veeery connected to senses. And also don't suit me perfectly. I mean, they seem to feel very good in a community and I am a huge individualist (yes, I know many people in my age say things like that, but the thing is that, I really am. I do not listen to music that most people hate, I hate parties, I don't like going to school, even If I'm not bullied or anything, I even didn't go to school trip, despite the fact that all my best friends did).
> Also I would like to have a more free job... I mean it is really hard to explain, but when I am in an environment that requires doing tasks etc - I will. But I don't like that, I don't like school pressure (even If I'm one of the bests).
> ...


Oh, I didn't mean to make you even more confused! 

Here are some great descriptions on all functions and also an article on Fe/Ti vs Fi/Te specifically. Hope this helps.


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## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

soppixo said:


> You shouldn't read stereotypes. And try not to focus on P/J. That last letter merely indicates which function you prefer to extrovert. For example a xSTJ extroverts their judging function, Te. While a xSTP extroverts their perceiving function, Se. I/E merely determines if that extroverted function is the Dominant (E) or the Auxiliary (I).
> 
> Questions of discipline, procrastination, aka outward behavior is heavily affected by the environment and culture a person lives in. MBTI merely tells you how you make decisions and collect information, not how you would behave if you were this type or that type. This is why I'd always advise you to refrain from using typology websites as your only source and to look further into forum threads where people describe how they utilize and manifest their functions.
> 
> ...


From this definition I think that you are right. I am a Fi. When my family/friends feel good it doesn't neccesarily mean that I will. It can be summer, everyone is happy. I'm on the camp with best friend and I can still be unhappy, because I am depressed inside.


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## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

soppixo said:


> To use your own experience as an example:
> 
> 
> Fe:
> ...



Ok... This one is tricky. I sometimes give my notes, but it depends. If it is my really close friend and they can tell me truthfully, that they didn't have time to do that because they <insert important thing to do>, then I will help them. 
However, usually I also give other people, but not because I want to, but because I am too scared to say no. I can be really angry, because I know that they were partying, but I am not assertive enough to say "you know... actually I worked on this for 5 hours, so no". I mean I sometimes lie and say that I don't have notes, but I will never confront them. 
Or sometimes I give people notes because... I do. Maybe I find excuses for them?

Maybe I am Fe after all. Maybe my thoughts are skeptical, but my acting is compassionate? (does that make any sense at all?)

Do you know, where can I check how ISFJ acts during stress?

And could you maybe also give me example how in the same situation would act a Te user and a Ti user? 

Thanks!


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## soppixo (Jun 29, 2011)

juliastark said:


> Ok... This one is tricky. I sometimes give my notes, but it depends. If it is my really close friend and they can tell me truthfully, that they didn't have time to do that because they <insert important thing to do>, then I will help them.
> However, usually I also give other people, but not because I want to, but because I am too scared to say no. I can be really angry, because I know that they were partying, but I am not assertive enough to say "you know... actually I worked on this for 5 hours, so no". I mean I sometimes lie and say that I don't have notes, but I will never confront them.
> Or sometimes I give people notes because... I do. Maybe I find excuses for them?
> 
> ...


The question you should ask yourself at this point is: "Do I help because I want to help? Or do I feel I need to help?" Fi is the former, Fe the latter. To recognize your functions you can't settle for "maybe it's this, maybe it's that" answers, but digging deep under the layers of your decision making process and pinpointing the core principles you revolve around.

I'm not sure if I posted the link already, but I'll grab the ISFJ section from the Dom-Tert stress descrip:


> *INTP/ISFJ: Ti/Si or Si/Ti--Schizotypal Personality Disorder. *I see this most commonly in INTP dom/tert loops (Ti+Si), resulting in totally giving up on attempting to obtain the social/interpersonal connections that inferior Fe drives them to unconsciously desire. Schizotypal people are seen (and typically see themselves) as having such unusual thoughts and behaviors that widespread social acceptance is nearly impossible. Ti thinks, "I cannot find any logical explanation for social rituals" and Si reinforces this self-isolating, risk-averse behavior by constantly reminding the user: "Remember how badly this went last time you tried?" If Ne were doing its job, it would remind the user to continue experimenting to find a new approach. In the ISFJ version, Si becomes ultra risk-averse and refuses to try anything new or unfamiliar. If Fe were doing its job, the ISFJ would learn that some risk is necessary in order to uphold obligations to others and avoid living in total solitude. Deep down, these types really do want social connection and ritual (Fe), but have found themselves so poor at it that they simply give up trying.


Alright, Te and Ti. I'll try for Te. It's probably the function I'm the worst at picking out. Plus this example tests F more than T.



> _Also people who don't care about school or stuff like that usually annoy me, because they are chilled and cool and then, two days before exams, they start begging me for my notes. I can help others with studying and I do so, but only if those people care about it too, and not ignore everything and go to a party, because then they will take advantage of someone who was actually working hard and making notes._


Ti:
Well I saw this coming. Partying hard is fine and all but did you really expect something different? You could have just done the work that you were supposed to do, before partying in peace and now look at the mess you're in. I'm not sure if I want to help you, I mean I don't want to create the impression that you can rely on me for your future messes. I guess I better not help, if I don't want more trouble on my plate. I have enough trouble keeping my own stuff in order let alone your's.

Te:
Well judging from how you've behaved, I did expect something like this to happen. I could help you with my notes, but we aren't doing a group project, and how well you do does not concern me. I have no use for helping you, rather I think that by helping you I would only create more problems for myself in the long run- but if you admit your mistakes and swear never to do this again I'll reconsider. As a warning, if you aren't going to follow my advice, then you aren't going to receive my help.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

juliastark said:


> Ok... This one is tricky. I sometimes give my notes, but it depends. If it is my really close friend and they can tell me truthfully, that they didn't have time to do that because they <insert important thing to do>, then I will help them.
> However, usually I also give other people, but not because I want to, but because I am too scared to say no. I can be really angry, because I know that they were partying, but I am not assertive enough to say "you know... actually I worked on this for 5 hours, so no". I mean I sometimes lie and say that I don't have notes, but I will never confront them.
> Or sometimes I give people notes because... I do. Maybe I find excuses for them?
> 
> ...


Her example isn't too connected to the functions and there can be many reasons to reach either answer.

Fi is about following an inner and hard to verbalize sense of what is right, what is good and what is agreeable etc. nor does it want to extravert them (to for example "justify the values"). This also leads to the side effect that since Fi users don't prefer to extravert their values; things have a tendency to very fast become a lecture of what is right rather than an objective discussion since it is uncomfortable and weird for them.

Think of it like you are in a completely new setting and you have absolutely no idea how to act, so you tend to overdo certain things while hoping that no one will notice that you are new to the whole thing.

Fe however; is like Fi with the difference that Fe has no issues in verbalizing values and extraverting them is done in a healthy and non-argumentative way.

Fe is with values quite much like Te is with logic.

This is a slice from Naomi Quenk's book that might help out a bit as well:


> _*Is Feeling Extraverted or Introverted?*_
> George, an ENFJ (dominant Extraverted Feeling), hired Ellen, an INFP (dominant Introverted Feeling), to edit his book manuscript. Ellen was gratified to learn that the edited manuscript had been accepted for publication by a prestigious university press. This news confirmed her feeling that she had done a good job. She was embarrassed, however, when George, who had already paid her for her work, took her out to dinner and presented her with an expensive gift toshow his appreciation. Rather than increasing her confidence in her work, this seemingly excessive display of gratitude made Ellen distrust George’s judgment of her. His unbounded enthusiasm seemed to indicate to her a lack of discrimination.
> This is a good example of how Introverted Feeling types focus on inner harmony and being at peace within themselves, whereas Extraverted Feeling types devote their energy to maintaining harmony in the outer world. George was merely sharing his delight in his success with someone he felt had contributed greatly to it. He would have been puzzled and shocked had he known about Ellen’s reaction, which she did not reveal to him.


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## soppixo (Jun 29, 2011)

As a further question, imagine yourself faced with someone you really hate/dislike. Can you develop a positive emotional connection to them, or do you find it impossible to?

For me it was my ESFP stepmom/my dad's long time mistress. Even though I had lots of reasons to hate her, my inferior Fe allowed me to make an emotional connection with her and I actually ended up sympathizing with her even though I could not empathize with her. While my ISTJ brother remained emotionally distant and physically disconnected from her, he kept to himself and rarely opened up to her despite her repeated attempts to interact with him.



Acerbusvenator said:


> Her example isn't too connected to the functions and there can be many reasons to reach either answer.
> 
> Fi is about following an inner and hard to verbalize sense of what is right, what is good and what is agreeable etc. nor does it want to extravert them (to for example "justify the values"). This also leads to the side effect that since Fi users don't prefer to extravert their values; things have a tendency to very fast become a lecture of what is right rather than an objective discussion since it is uncomfortable and weird for them.
> 
> ...


Except Fe isn't always expressed healthily. Fe has the tendency to either go too light or too heavy with the "harmonizing" of values.

Plus Fe can be flexible about morality and inner principles just as long as their outer environment stabilizes. Like my example up ^ there about my stepmom. I hate the idea of infidelity, I despise the other women who chose to break up marriages. But just because I hold that moral stance, does not prevent me from seeing my father's mistress as a fallible, weak and very human person in her own right. And liking her / disliking her as that person despite all the moralistic reasons I could rain down upon her head. Plus it'd make my dad really sad if I made life hard for her, so rather than being righteous and justified, I'd rather be harmonious and kind.

Fe just wants to make the people important to them happy so they can feel happy. When the people around them are sad or angry, they mirror that emotion and become distressed as well. I've seen this in my ISFJ mom, I've seen this in myself. So I think I've got this right at least.

I can't speak so much for Fi, because I'm still trying to understand it properly myself. But from what I understand, Fi considers the happiness of others independent from their own. If they're happy or sad, it all comes from within. They define their own happiness, not because of others, but because they feel at peace with themselves.

I'd agree with that last part. But it isn't going to be much help to someone who can't even tell which T or F they're using.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

soppixo said:


> Except Fe isn't always expressed healthily. Fe has the tendency to either go too light or too heavy with the "harmonizing" of values. And...I'm not about- "Fe is about what is the right thing to do", because the "right thing to do" is highly subjective and dependent on personal values- which coincidentally Fi also endorses.
> 
> Plus Fe can be flexible about morality and inner principles just as long as their outer environment stabilizes. Like my example up ^ there about my stepmom. I hate the idea of infidelity, I despise the other women who chose to break up marriages. But just because I hold that moral stance, does not prevent me from seeing my father's mistress as a fallible, weak and very human person in her own right. And liking her / disliking her as that person despite all the moralistic reasons I could rain down upon her head. Plus it'd make my dad really sad if I made life hard for her, so rather than being righteous and justified, I'd rather be harmonious and kind.
> 
> ...


Talking a bit with perspective from your inferior Fe?

Anyways, Fe is generally about following an externally set framework of values, whereas Fi follow their own set of values.

It could be considered to be 2 levels to all functions tho. A practical level and an intellectual level.
On the intellectual level, Fi users follow their own sense of values, independently from external sources, whereas Fe users prefer to follow externally set/widely accepted values (if that so happens to be their group of friends or society).

On the more practical level, Fe users are focused on the external harmony, making everyone feel at ease. Whereas Fi users are focused on the internal harmony, making themselves feel at ease.

I don't think our definitions are too far away from each other's, it was however the case that you gave that I wanted to point out having a risk to get contaminated results based on multiple reasons that could lead to the same decision.

EDIT: I only discussed you in the first row. After that I just gave my explanation.


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## soppixo (Jun 29, 2011)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Talking a bit with perspective from your inferior Fe?
> 
> Anyways, Fe is generally about following an externally set framework of values, whereas Fi follow their own set of values.
> 
> ...


Yep, it gets messy at times. :bored:

Yep. I can see the possible implications now that I've reread my examples. I was hoping that my explanations would help enlighten her more on the likely manifestations of each function and help enable her to pick one decisively over the other. But I guess it is just that hard to give a proper real life example because it'd always be contaminated somehow by some other function. Since Fi is always with Te and Ti always with Fe. So you'd always have a balance of reasoning and values no matter the T or F in their 4 letter type.

Edit: Like I said, it gets messy lol. I jumped the gun there at certain parts, its hard to see what I'm responding to in the little boxes  I usually realize I'm off-topic after I post and get to reread what I wrote.

But basically I wanted to further clarify the definition of what Fe is, since you mainly elaborated on Fi before adding at the end that Fe is simply Fi but extroverted. Or that Fe is like Te except with values vs logic. Which doesn't really explain what Fe is really.


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## amatsuki (Apr 17, 2012)

Man, @soppixo those last two situations with Te and Fi was like exactly what was running through my head for most of highschool, hahaha.


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## juliastark (Apr 27, 2013)

Thanks for all your replies  Sorry for answering with a little bit of delay, but I am currently on holidays.

Well, I could see me being a Fe/Ti user, however I still don't feel me being an ISFJ. When I looked at ISFJ forum they just feel... different? (_Edit:_I think the problem is that ISFJs are focused on "helping others". I read about it not only on websites, which I know I can't fully trust, but also people on ISFJ forum often point out that they want to "make people happy". And I care about people but...not that much? My goal number one is not to care about someone - having children or even a flower scares me. And I know that MBTI is not about goals, but it still feels kinda weird being on their forum  But maybe it's just the first impression...). 

Anyway, I will still think about it. Or maybe I'll try stop thinking about it and then come back to it, because now I feel like I can't even distinguish between what I _want _to be and what I actually _am_.

But thanks a lot for explaining!


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