# How To Counsel A Friend



## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

I'm posting this because I've noticed (to my frustration) that while counselling others comes naturally to me, most of my friends don't have a clue how to do it. I also understand that different individuals will have different preferences, but still, there has to be _some_ common guidelines. I'm no psychology expert, but I'll humbly offer a few:

1) *Invite them to talk / Ask questions*. If you see a friend is upset and you think they might want to talk, ask them what's up. Unless they tell you they don't want to talk about it, be persistent and show them you actually care and want to hear them out. Might seem like common sense, but i have a bunch of friends that expect you to just come out and spew your troubles without prompting. Not everyone does that. I'm sure most "I" types and probably most men need to be prompted in order to feel comfortable to speak. You do this by asking questions and then shutting up and listening to the response without digressing into your own anecdote.

2) *Listen!* When you finally do get your friend to talk, then don't speak, just listen and take in what they say. The only words that should come out of your mouth are a) questions for clarification, or to keep them on track, or b) words of encouragement (if necessary). It never ceases to amaze me how few people are good listeners, yet this is one of the most important interpersonal skills. Good listening isn't only about paying attention, it also involves making the environment conducive to a good conversation - make sure the other person is comfortable. Find a spot with maximum privacy and minimal distractions (car rides are an awesome place to talk).

3) *Don't offer (unsolicited) advice*. Once you have heard them out and you begin dialogue, resist the urge to offer advice. I personally struggle with this, because I love giving advice (thus this post). I'm sure I'm not alone. Don't do it. Unless your friend specifically asks you for your advice, don't offer it unsolicited. What to do instead is ask questions to help them find their own solution. This works, advice doesn't (but it can often annoy them).

4) *It's about them, not you*. Remember who the conversation is about. If you understand that your role is to counsel, then keep the conversation about the friend in need, not you, unless they specifically ask if such and such ever happened to you, type-a-thing. Most people I know just can't resist flipping the conversation to themselves. Some narcissoid types will get so wrapped up in their own stories they fail to realize that they haven't been listening and they _actually think they helped_! I'm not kidding.

5) *Encourage action*. Thinking is important, but you can't think your way out of (or into) anything. If you want to improve your life or your circumstances, you must act. I don't think anyone would argue with this. You have to encourage people to take action and do something. Ask "What are gonna do about it?" Help them find a path to action. Please note that I didn't say "solution" - solving the problem may not be immediately possible, but positive action always helps, even if the person is depressed or grieving. Some people can become addicted to bitching. Don't enable this. Don't be someone's crutch. At a certain point, the price of your attention needs to be measured in action.

6) *Be respectful*. This should, and probably does, go without saying. What his means is: don't judge ("OMG! I wouldn't have done that!"), don't evaluate ("You know what your problem is..."), don't interrupt. Be honest (except when doing so would hurt someone unnecessarily). You don't have to blow sunshine up someone's ass in order to be respectful. Tell the truth with _tact_. Do the "right" thing (whatever that means to you).


Please add your own tips - I'm also to curious to find out what other people's experience with this situation is.


----------



## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

As far as number 4. How do you guage how people are in need etc.. without seeming like you are doing number 3?

Thanks for posting this.


----------



## pukainthewall (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for this.


----------



## Siggy (May 25, 2009)

_5) *Encourage action*. Thinking is important, but you can't think your way out of (or into) anything. If you want to improve your life or your circumstances, you must act. I don't think anyone would argue with this. You have to encourage people to take action and do something. Ask "What are gonna do about it?" 

_ I am going to dispute this point. Some people can "think" their way out of problems. There are times people just need a sounding board. By listening to themselves talk and having some one to listen they can find a solution.

Also know your limits and know when to suggest professional help. While lay counseling is good, there are instances where things are best left to the professionals


----------



## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

Souled In said:


> As far as number 4. How do you guage how people are in need etc.. without seeming like you are doing number 3?


You don't have to gauge anything, just let them talk and be heard. I think when people have things on their mind, they primarily need to get it off their chest. If they want advice, they'll ask for it. In the meantime, just ask questions and show interest until they've had enough (or until _you've_ had enough).


----------



## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

Dear Sigmund said:


> _5) *Encourage action*. Thinking is important, but you can't think your way out of (or into) anything. If you want to improve your life or your circumstances, you must act. I don't think anyone would argue with this. You have to encourage people to take action and do something. Ask "What are gonna do about it?"
> 
> _ I am going to dispute this point. Some people can "think" their way out of problems. There are times people just need a sounding board. By listening to themselves talk and having some one to listen they can find a solution.
> 
> Also know your limits and know when to suggest professional help. While lay counseling is good, there are instances where things are best left to the professionals


Of course. No doubt that anyone can think of a solution, but to implement it requires action. Having merely found a solution is not enough - most people know what they need to do already (which is partly why they don't want unsolicited advice). I agree that often times they just need a sounding board.

As far as professional help, I was talking about being supportive of your friends when they need to talk. Obviously, no one who is not professionally trained should try to analyse someone, but there are a lot of times people just need a good friend, not a shrink.


----------



## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

Its hard when both people feel they are in need lol. Kind of funny though I guess


----------



## carson (Jan 21, 2011)

I would like to know how to counsel my enemies.


----------



## JXS (Mar 4, 2011)

napoleon227 said:


> 3) *Don't offer (unsolicited) advice*. Once you have heard them out and you begin dialogue, resist the urge to offer advice. I personally struggle with this, because I love giving advice (thus this post). I'm sure I'm not alone. Don't do it. Unless your friend specifically asks you for your advice, don't offer it unsolicited. What to do instead is ask questions to help them find their own solution. This works, advice doesn't (but it can often annoy them).


Are you sure this applies to counseling NTs? In my experience, the purpose of talking about emotions is usually to determine a course of action.


----------



## Introvertigo (Dec 27, 2010)

Some types do need to clarify what they think and how they feel about an issue, as those are two separate things. Some people are more aware of their feelings, others need help to identify/experience them.


----------



## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

napoleon227 said:


> I'm posting this because I've noticed (to my frustration) that while counselling others comes naturally to me, most of my friends don't have a clue how to do it. I also understand that different individuals will have different preferences, but still, there has to be _some_ common guidelines. I'm no psychology expert, but I'll humbly offer a few:
> 
> 1) *Invite them to talk / Ask questions*. If you see a friend is upset and you think they might want to talk, ask them what's up. Unless they tell you they don't want to talk about it, be persistent and show them you actually care and want to hear them out. Might seem like common sense, but i have a bunch of friends that expect you to just come out and spew your troubles without prompting. Not everyone does that. I'm sure most "I" types and probably most men need to be prompted in order to feel comfortable to speak. You do this by asking questions and then shutting up and listening to the response without digressing into your own anecdote.
> 
> ...


 *Don't tell them how they feel or should feel. * Validate them on how they are feeling. Experience it with them if you can. Without empathy, they can close up right away. You are not "above them" are you going through it with them. 

When they do want advice, I will often phrase it as "What works for me is...".


----------



## Vaan (Dec 19, 2010)

JXS said:


> Are you sure this applies to counseling NTs? In my experience, the purpose of talking about emotions is usually to determine a course of action.


with NT's the idea is to get them to figure out their own possible solutions, you can help and guide it but they have to come up with the ideas themselves, it works better that way

you guys forgot the "give up and call an INFJ" step , im just kidding, this process is quite good and quite elaborate, good job to the OP ^^


----------



## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

EDIT:
Lol. Nevermind. I actually just read the posts in order and I fumbled big time Vaan. Sorry.

Everyone, proceed....



Vaan said:


> with NT's the idea is to get them to figure out their own possible solutions, you can help and guide it but they have to come up with the ideas themselves, it works better that way


 This is what I do with everyone. 



> you guys forgot the "give up and call an INFJ" step , im just kidding, this process is quite good and quite elaborate, good job to the OP ^^


 I'm glad you're just kidding. Because we both know an NT should "give up and call an ENFP". :crazy:


----------



## Vaan (Dec 19, 2010)

I used the specific term so it would seem to be a specific answer, i get all the people i counsel to answer their own problems, im not Dr Phil and i won't hold their hand all the way through life and spoon feed them advice, it just dosent work that way, and yes this applies to all types

EDIT: deleted quote, kept text there so people who read this dont pop ??'s


----------



## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Vaan said:


> I used the specific term so it would seem to be a specific answer, i get all the people i counsel to answer their own problems, im not Dr Phil and i won't hold their hand all the way through life and spoon feed them advice, it just dosent work that way, and yes this applies to all types


Shush, baby. I wrote that before I figured out who wrote what. I'm sorry. I was talking out of my ass. I made an edit. See?


----------



## Vaan (Dec 19, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Shush, baby. I wrote that before I figured out who wrote what. I'm sorry. I was talking out of my ass. I made an edit. See?


lol its ok, i know that its frustrating when people use the generalisations of types


----------



## gunfetish (Apr 6, 2011)

Great thread - I surely needed this!


----------



## Pelle (Jan 13, 2011)

Nice list. Especially 3 makes a lot of sense, but I usually don't do that. 

However, consider this situation:

I have been on the receiving end of the counsel recently and am very good at coming up with solutions that just don't work. It usually gets others off my back though, even if I do want to talk to them. A good friend of mine recently became aware of my situation and tried to counsel me. He is quite blunt though and didn't listen to point 3 and didn't accept "no" or "I don't know if I want that" as an answer. It got me quite pissed, but I think it did help. I'm too used to getting my way, especially since I don't ask for it often, but this actually got me into action. 

So I'm wondering, if there is something like tough love, how would you apply it with the earlier guidelines in mind and if not, do you think a skilled person would have been able to help me while still using all your points? It's probably a bit hard to answer without knowing the specifics of my case, but I won't go into that here.


----------



## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

napoleon227 said:


> I'm posting this because I've noticed (to my frustration) that while counselling others comes naturally to me, most of my friends don't have a clue how to do it. I also understand that different individuals will have different preferences, but still, there has to be _some_ common guidelines. I'm no psychology expert, but I'll humbly offer a few:


This is a great thread idea. Thank you for doing this.



napoleon227 said:


> 1) *Invite them to talk / Ask questions*. If you see a friend is upset and you think they might want to talk, ask them what's up. Unless they tell you they don't want to talk about it, be persistent and show them you actually care and want to hear them out. Might seem like common sense, but i have a bunch of friends that expect you to just come out and spew your troubles without prompting. Not everyone does that. I'm sure most "I" types and probably most men need to be prompted in order to feel comfortable to speak. You do this by asking questions and then shutting up and listening to the response without digressing into your own anecdote.


I agree with all of this except for the last sentence, but I will get to that later.



napoleon227 said:


> 2) *Listen!* When you finally do get your friend to talk, then don't speak, just listen and take in what they say. The only words that should come out of your mouth are a) questions for clarification, or to keep them on track, or b) words of encouragement (if necessary). It never ceases to amaze me how few people are good listeners, yet this is one of the most important interpersonal skills. Good listening isn't only about paying attention, it also involves making the environment conducive to a good conversation - make sure the other person is comfortable. Find a spot with maximum privacy and minimal distractions (car rides are an awesome place to talk).


I agree that clarification and encouragement are both extremely important, and that privacy and a lack of distractions can make things easier.



napoleon227 said:


> 3) *Don't offer (unsolicited) advice*. Once you have heard them out and you begin dialogue, resist the urge to offer advice. I personally struggle with this, because I love giving advice (thus this post). I'm sure I'm not alone. Don't do it. Unless your friend specifically asks you for your advice, don't offer it unsolicited. What to do instead is ask questions to help them find their own solution. This works, advice doesn't (but it can often annoy them).


This is probably the most important thing, and is the most common mistake people make when trying to comfort me. When I am upset, all advice sounds like criticism and accusations, no matter what it is. It all gets translated into invalidation. I wish more people understood this.



napoleon227 said:


> 4) *It's about them, not you*. Remember who the conversation is about. If you understand that your role is to counsel, then keep the conversation about the friend in need, not you, unless they specifically ask if such and such ever happened to you, type-a-thing. Most people I know just can't resist flipping the conversation to themselves. Some narcissoid types will get so wrapped up in their own stories they fail to realize that they haven't been listening and they _actually think they helped_! I'm not kidding.


Here is where I disagree. Empathy is very valuable, and in order to feel like I am understood, I need the other person to prove that s/he can relate to how I am feeling, even if it is just a little bit. Because of this need, I am probably one of those "narcissoid types" you mention. I do always try to show that I have felt something at some point that would make the person feel less alone. I tend to assume others need the same things I do, unless I have a reason to believe otherwise. 



napoleon227 said:


> 5) *Encourage action*. Thinking is important, but you can't think your way out of (or into) anything. If you want to improve your life or your circumstances, you must act. I don't think anyone would argue with this. You have to encourage people to take action and do something. Ask "What are gonna do about it?" Help them find a path to action. Please note that I didn't say "solution" - solving the problem may not be immediately possible, but positive action always helps, even if the person is depressed or grieving. Some people can become addicted to bitching. Don't enable this. Don't be someone's crutch. At a certain point, the price of your attention needs to be measured in action.


Here is the other place where I disagree. Sometimes the whole point is to take care of someone's feelings by being nurturing and supportive. The people who seem to be "addicted to bitching" simply have a different long-term coping strategy that is interpersonal instead of intrapersonal. This does not make us inferior or mean that our method is invalid, and there is no reason not to continue listening as often as necessary, without the expectation that the person is then indebted to you in such a way that he or she should feel compelled to behave according to your wishes. While empowering a person to seek out positive life-changes is often a good thing, one must be very careful about how one goes about it, and there should never be any pressure or ultimatums. It shouldn't be assumed that this is the goal for everyone.



napoleon227 said:


> 6) *Be respectful*. This should, and probably does, go without saying. What his means is: don't judge ("OMG! I wouldn't have done that!"), don't evaluate ("You know what your problem is..."), don't interrupt. Be honest (except when doing so would hurt someone unnecessarily). You don't have to blow sunshine up someone's ass in order to be respectful. Tell the truth with _tact_. Do the "right" thing (whatever that means to you).


...as long as the "right thing" doesn't mean something completely harmful. :laughing:

I would like to add a couple of things that may fall under some of the categories already mentioned, but which are specific mistakes people have made with me in the past, or that I have made with other people.


*Don't use the counseling session as an opportunity to subtly manipulate the person* into conforming to your personal ideal by imposing your values on the person. I have made this mistake many times, and I have also had this done to me. It is not helpful. People can always see through it, and naturally they will feel invalidated by it. 
 *False empowerment causes more harm than good*. One of the worst things a person can do for me when I am upset is to tell me that I can choose to feel whatever I want, or that thinking positive thoughts will attract positive situations, or that my negative attitude about the situation is the only thing keeping me down. The person intends for me to feel stronger because of it, like I can turn things around at will, but Instead, it is only a harmful accusation that I must defend myself against, a form of covert victim-blaming that makes me feel horribly misunderstood, and is not helpful. 
 *DO NOT RUSH THE PERSON* into getting over it, no matter how long s/he has been complaining about the same thing, because the added guilt over not healing quickly enough, and the fear of being abandoned for seeming like a burden, will only add to the suffering and will make it take longer. On a related note, *do not recommend that the person move on, stop dwelling on it* or change his or her focus, because using distraction as a long-term solution is not feasible or beneficial for many people, and the failure to adequately process the feelings will only cause them to lurk under the surface as a constant hidden threat. Also, recommending it makes you seem like you don't care.
*Tough love is not real love*. Usually it is an excuse for insensitive, or even abusive behavior. Do not attempt to give someone a harsh wake-up call, snap them out of their self-pity, desensitize them, shame them for whining, or otherwise force them to be stronger than they are, because even if it works on some people some of the time, it is EXTREMELY damaging to the rest of us, and can cause lifelong psychological trauma to certain especially sensitive individuals, leading to suicide in the most extreme cases. The same negative encouragement that, when internalized, sparks some non-sensitive people into action, causing them to say "You're right, I am being weak, and I don't have to be," will inevitably cripple those who do not function that way, who are already struggling under emotionally toxic conditions, who cannot just will themselves to stop feeling whatever is troubling them. If they internalize the same message, it will send them into an implosive annihilative spiral that causes them to habitually feel even more pain and shame every time they are suffering, to punish themselves for not being able to stop feeling that pain. By doing this, you are attacking their defense against ever overcoming it, and it will overwhelm and destroy them in the same way that AIDS destroys the immune system, making it so the person eventually dies of something that would usually be a minor inconvenience.


----------



## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for your considered replies...



Pelle said:


> Nice list. Especially 3 makes a lot of sense, but I usually don't do that.
> 
> However, consider this situation:
> 
> ...


I posted general guidelines and obviously everyone's situation will be different. But if it were me, I would have done it differently, by asking questions rather than telling my friend what to do. Being asked tough questions is also tough love - it is not necessary to tell someone - here, do this! Do I break this rule myself? Yes! But by keeping it in mind, I am more aware of what I'm saying and try to stay focused on helping my friend find their own path.




snail said:


> This is a great thread idea. Thank you for doing this.
> 
> I agree with all of this except for the last sentence, but I will get to that later.
> 
> ...


By "narcissiod types" I was referring to the counsellors, not the ones being counselled. Friends in need can be as narcissistic as they like, but when counselling someone else, I believe you should stay focused on the person you're supposed to be helping to feel better. Still, you make a good point about empathy and I agree that it is important to show empathy, and that telling stories to show that you understand how the other person feels is important, but these empathetic anecdotes should be kept short. My complaint was that when I go to my friends "to talk" - they don't focus on what I'm saying, they just get carried off in their own stories _and never come back_! At that point, it is not empathy but lack of self-control, in my opinion. You might also note that professional counsellors tell anecdotes infrequently and keep them short (so the balance of them talking to you talking is something like 10-25% them, 75-90% you).



> Here is the other place where I disagree. Sometimes the whole point is to take care of someone's feelings by being nurturing and supportive. The people who seem to be "addicted to bitching" simply have a different long-term coping strategy that is interpersonal instead of intrapersonal. This does not make us inferior or mean that our method is invalid, and there is no reason not to continue listening as often as necessary, without the expectation that the person is then indebted to you in such a way that he or she should feel compelled to behave according to your wishes. While empowering a person to seek out positive life-changes is often a good thing, one must be very careful about how one goes about it, and there should never be any pressure or ultimatums. It shouldn't be assumed that this is the goal for everyone.


OK, point taken, but I still don't completely agree with this. I am a friend, not a professionally counselor. I don't get paid to listen to someone's troubles for hours and hours on end, week after week. So yeah, I get that some people take longer to heal or get over their issues, but I don't think it is the role of a friend to help them through all of that. People also have to live their own lives. For chronic cases, as you describe, I would recommend that my friend seek professional counselling and help them get it, but I would limit the amount of time I spent on that. Also, with regards to ultimatums, perhaps you misunderstood. I'm saying that my time is valuable to me and while I am willing to spend a significant amount of it helping my friends, the price of that sacrifice on my part is that I see progress. That is not an ultimatum It is my conditions for helping you. If you don't like those terms then you should probably not talk to me about your issues. If you want to just talk about the same problems over and over without committing to doing something about it, then you absolutely have that right, and you should absolutely pay for it, not make your friend pay for it. Is that fair?




> I would like to add a couple of things that may fall under some of the categories already mentioned, but which are specific mistakes people have made with me in the past, or that I have made with other people.
> 
> 
> *Don't use the counseling session as an opportunity to subtly manipulate the person* into conforming to your personal ideal by imposing your values on the person. I have made this mistake many times, and I have also had this done to me. It is not helpful. People can always see through it, and naturally they will feel invalidated by it.
> ...


OK, I understand your points, but once again we are drifting out of the realm of friends helping friends and into the realm of professional treatment, which is not what I intended with my post. I am no authority on professional therapy and in cases such as you describe where you are having a lot of difficulty, I think it is somewhat unfair to expect friends to do what a professional should do without any quid pro quo. I strongly disagree that tough love is just "an excuse for insensitivity" - although with some people it certainly can be. But that is not the general rule. I have a friend who has some fairly deep issues that canot be made better with a few conversations over coffee. Instead of giving her 'tough love", I just avoid talking to her completely. Is that better? Maybe not for her, but it is for me. I have a right to limit the amount of toxic crap I take in from other people's lives. Maybe not just a right, but _an obligation_.

On that note I think it should be said that friendship is based on quid pro quo. All healthy relationships involve giving as well as taking and must be _mutually beneficial_. Please consider that continually taking from others without giving back can also be considered abusive, and it certainly isn't right.


----------

