# Fi = passive-aggressive?



## SuperSoaker (Aug 19, 2013)

Could you be Fe and passive-aggressive?

I've noticed passive-aggressiveness in INTJ, INFP and ESFP girls and it made me think there's a pattern between Fi and passive-aggressive, which makes sense to me from my understanding of Fi...

What's your thoughts and experiences?


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

I don't see why not. Why do you link Fi with being passive-aggressive in your understanding?


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## SuperSoaker (Aug 19, 2013)

From my understanding, which could be wrong...

Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.

Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

SuperSoaker said:


> From my understanding, which could be wrong...
> 
> Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.
> 
> Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.


Fi doesn't sound too healthy to me. I hate it when this happens! If only I can switch it for another function!


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## sjack (Mar 18, 2013)

I don't think passive-aggressiveness is really linked to Fi or Fe. It has really more to do with indirectly opposing someone, and in my experience, most J, especially TJs, have no problem telling you that they have a problem with you in your face. 

I think passive-aggressiveness can be linked mainly to IXXPs, since their extroverted judging function (either Te or Fe) is at the bottom of their 4 main cognitive functions, and therefore usually tend to be the least confident in making direct confrontations. That's not to say that other types don't exhibit this type of behaviour as well.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Powerhouse said:


> Fi doesn't sound too healthy to me. I hate it when this happens! If only I can switch it for another function!


I don't think switching functions would make a person more healthy, though. That's not really how they work.


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Nonsense said:


> I don't think switching functions would make a person more healthy, though. That's not really how they work.


Well, what will someone with healthy Fi be like? Supersoaker's description seems to confirm emotional expressiveness problems quite well, though.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

SuperSoaker said:


> From my understanding, which could be wrong...
> 
> Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.
> 
> Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.


Sounds like immature Fi-user to me, not Fi in itself. And why is Fi considered to be harder to express? I don't understand this general idea.


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## Pau7 (Jun 20, 2013)

I think it has something to do with it. I have a really difficult time telling people how I feel if something's wrong, so I usually act on those feelings rather than talk about them.

For example, two of my friends got mad at me for something that wasn't my fault, and I didn't want to talk about it with them or work out the other problems in our relationship (that I've been feeling for a year or two now), so I decided to avoid them until they start talking to me again. Then I kind of adjust myself to the moment and continue as if I hadn't been ignoring them and I realize that they care about me (which is a manifestation of Se, I think).

I can bottle up all my feelings until a point where it's unhealthy and I avoid the person. I rarely, if ever, tell someone how I feel about them or what problems I see in the relationship because I think the other person probably won't get it. So it comes out passive-aggressively.

Obviously that's unhealthy and something I need to work on.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

This seems more of a maturity issue, people are indirect about different things for different reasons. I have seen high degrees of passive aggressiveness from both Fi/Fe and T preferences in whichever order. Te being generally straight forward but when they become unhealthy, they can make pretty snide remarks. On second thoughts, it could be a sign of an inferior function popping out or if the function is in a higher preference, it is likely that function is unhealthy or crudely operating. Again though, not sure if this specific to one function in particular or more of a universal behaviour.


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## SuperSoaker (Aug 19, 2013)

Hmmm, I think that I thought of Fe to have a built in 'safety' against passive-aggressiveness, but I guess we all have egos which we like to defend and if we can't do it overt it will be covert. Probably linked to being immature or feeling weak.

Sorry if I did hurt some Fi-feelings.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

SuperSoaker said:


> Hmmm, I think that I thought of Fe to have a built in 'safety' against passive-aggressiveness, but I guess we all have egos which we like to defend and if we can't do it overt it will be covert. Probably linked to being immature or feeling weak.
> 
> Sorry if I did hurt some Fi-feelings.


You didn't :happy:. You just didn't take into consideration the wider perspective about the issue, it's okay to speculate but there there isn't always going to be a simple answer when thinking about all the variables, learnt behaviours, enneagram types etc.


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

Kanerou said:


> Sounds like immature Fi-user to me, not Fi in itself. And why is Fi considered to be harder to express? I don't understand this general idea.


It depends on the source(s) of your information on the subject. For example, here's a few interweb-based descriptions:
Introverted Feeling - (Fe) - "On the other hand, most of the time this process works "in private" and is expressed through actions."
Introverted Feeling (Fi) vs. Ti, Ni, & Fe - Personality Junkie (a decent source) - "They may express themselves through action (Se), hints or suggestions (Ne), or matter-of-fact statements (Te)."; "Unless they are using their Se or Ne auxiliary, IFPs can seem cold, aloof, and uninviting."
http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-temperament-forum-dreamers/3065-introverted-feeling.html - "Here the activities of feeling are hidden, and from the outside there is, as a rule, little to tell us that we are dealing with a person of feeling-type."; "In ordinary life their mask conceals what they really are."; "The consequence is that they are nearly always misunderstood, and they tend more or less to resign themselves to this situation."

Of the two female INFPs (we took several tests together) I still keep in contact with, both fit these definitions relatively well. It may also be worth noting that both Fi and Ti can be inwardly 'judging' (such as chastising yourself for some sort of inconsistency in behavior), and both functions are often correlated with the feeling of being misunderstood. It was mainly both of these reasons that I quickly befriended the Fi-users I know. The INFPs were a little more likely to 'beat around the bush' for a while, but at the end of the day, they'd make it clear to me what they were thinking - and they can be rather convincing (read: dangerous) when even slightly annoyed.

As for ISFPs... I think my first kiss came from one. It was a traumatic experience for my Ti. Needless to say, I later used it as an excuse to bring breath-freshening gum to school - for both of us.


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## Ballast (Jun 17, 2013)

SuperSoaker said:


> Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.


I've seen Fe (F*J*) used in some controlling ways. If you were going to be domineered by an unhealthy, controlling person who felt they should have a say in what you do, what you eat, who you marry, who you're friends with, and so on because _they've done so much for you don't be an ungrateful little brat _I would think Fe_._ I'm not sure it's the same thing as merely passive-aggressive, but of the two, I think Fe could do the heavier damage.



SuperSoaker said:


> Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.


This is incredibly true for unhealthy Fi users in my experience. I mean _really_ unhealthy, the kind of unhealthy that has nothing to do with MBTI but is necessarily expressed through the dominate function. 

At the core of it, they genuinely hate conflict and care about the people they love. But they get wounded _so easily_ (personality disorder type stuff here) and then blame the person who made them feel bad, even if the reason they got upset was because the person was bringing up a legitimate issue. Like this:

Person: Why are there socks all over the floor?

Unhealthy Fi: Because they're mine and I haven't cleaned them up yet, I'm _SORRY_ they're bothering you!

Person: Wha...it's not that big of a deal, I just wondered why there's so much clutter around!

Unhealthy Fi: *sob* *sulk*

You can't do _anything_ when that happens. You're a bad guy no matter what you do, and the only way to win is to never upset that person, ever. 

But I myself (tertiary Fi) can be passive-aggressive at times. I have to agree that most of the people I can think of Fi-wise (including Te/Fi types) have passive-aggressive moments, usually when it's about emotions or feelings rather than usual T stuff in the case of T types. 

My thoughts in general is that if you know how to work systems, you know how to manipulate them. If you know how to work people, it follows that the unhealthy version of that trait is to manipulate them.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

Fi is the same process as Ti, only placing importance on value content instead of logical content. Just as Ti isn't satisfied with external facts if they don't make sense to the individual, Fi isn't satisfied with external values if they don't weigh up for the individual.


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## SuperSoaker (Aug 19, 2013)

> My thoughts in general is that if you know how to work systems, you know how to manipulate them. If you know how to work people, it follows that the unhealthy version of that trait is to manipulate them.


This is really interesting. Would you say that being passive-aggressive would hurt someone with Fi more than someone with Fe?


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

SuperSoaker said:


> This is really interesting. Would you say that being passive-aggressive would hurt someone with Fi more than someone with Fe?


Not purely because of their functions. Sometimes yes, other times no. Same goes for any type.


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## SuperSoaker (Aug 19, 2013)

Neverontime said:


> Fi is the same process as Ti, only placing importance on value content instead of logical content. Just as Ti isn't satisfied with external facts if they don't make sense to the individual, Fi isn't satisfied with external values if they don't weigh up for the individual.


Yes, but it's still where you process your feelings? When I'm in Ti+Se, I don't feel at all... it just flows


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## SuperSoaker (Aug 19, 2013)

Neverontime said:


> Not purely because of their functions. Sometimes yes, other times no. Same goes for any type.


Well, to say the least I don't like people who are passive aggressive towards me. I did suspect that it has to do with Se+Fe.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

SuperSoaker said:


> Yes, but it's still where you process your feelings? When I'm in Ti+Se, I don't feel at all... it just flows


Feelings are experienced at different levels of intensity. At their most intense they may cause physical symptoms of illness. In the middle they can be distinguished and labeled as sadness, jealousy, anger, etc. The feeling involved in Fi/Fe judgement process are very subtle and don't affect a F dom any more than Thinking affects a T dom. It's just like another form of thinking. 

Personal emotions are separate. I believe that F types are more sensitive than T types to feelings/emotions so that they're able to make judgements by the subtle tones/moods that Thinkers don't readily notice. Often, by the time T types are affected by feelings, it seems they've reached a level of intensity high enough to influence them in an irrational way. Which is why I believe, that many thinking types struggle to conceive Feeling as a rational process.


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

SuperSoaker said:


> Well, to say the least I don't like people who are passive aggressive towards me. I did suspect that it has to do with Se+Fe.


Maybe this helps explain the individual function. I found it enlightening.
Jungian Functions at a Glance | CelebrityTypes.com 

*Fe**vs.**Fi*Soothingvs.ChampioningAppropriatevs.SincereWorld-then-egovs.Ego-then-worldNormsvs.IdealsHarmonicvs.Certifying*Dominant in: *ENFJ, ESFJ*
Auxiliary in:* INFJ, ISFJvs.*Dominant in:* INFP, ISFP, *
Auxiliary in:* ENFP, ESFP

So external Fe, is maybe to observe the world, then take that into the individual's heart.
Whereas Fi, is what lies inside our heart, we then try to take it to the world. 
e.g. Mother Theresa felt such deep love, she then made it a mission in her life to serve love to others. 

I always thought that Fi, is just describes internal emotions. It can be a positive emotion (joyfulness), or a negative emotion (jealousy). 

I think the passive aggressive is more describes people as "do not harm others unless they have harmed you". So if someone is passive aggressive towards you, it could be your external action towards them is unjustified in some internal values of theirs. 

A good classic example I can think of is this in a typical social interaction: 

A guy : "Heeeeey, waaaasup girrrrls" 
(Ok, imagine this was done a little bit loud, and to some girls who the guy does not know. He is a "happy" expressive person. Upon seeing these girls, he cannot hold in his excitement.) :happy: 


The girls: "Moron!" 
(So, the girls' internal value could be such that, they do not appreciate someone to loudly express or acknowledge them socially, because in their mind, loudness means arguing, or that there will be a fight soon.  They may also conclude from their internal values that, the guy is acting too familiar with them, even though he has not been introduced to them. Wrongly assumed association or friendship. So their internal conclusion could be such that, this guy is trying to fight them and that he assumes that the girls will fight, even without being asked. So their response is to fight and reject, and push him away.) 


The guy is trying to be friendly because he is seeing in his immediate worldview that there are other people there, and he wants to be friendly, and that will make him feel good inside, but then the girls is not feeling good inside, and that the world is also showing someone who doesn't make them feel good either.


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## I Kant (Jan 19, 2013)

SuperSoaker said:


> From my understanding, which could be wrong...
> 
> Fe wants everyone to be their friend and value harmony in the group in some way and can adjust themselves in order to achieve that unless some other function overrides. It's easier for Fe to be expressed outwards.
> 
> Fi wants everyone else to make them feel good and hate when someone makes them feel bad. And if someone makes them feel bad they will link that feeling to that person. It's harder for Fi to be expressed outwards, which makes me think it's easier to be passive aggressive because then you can direct that anger without expressing emotions directly.


Hmm. 

I've met Fe users who expect everyone to be their friend and support them no matter how much they burn and fry the people around them out of conviction of their aptitude of having a handle on people. Even in the face of the opinion of everyone who knows them and has to live with them.

I've met Fi users who are motivated by principles rather than simply being directed by emotions.

But I've met a lot of people who differ from that too.


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## phantom_ecstasy (Jul 24, 2012)

IME isfjs are the most passive aggressive type. The few that I've known are very fond of making snide comments. As an infp, I'm usually just very passive, until I blow up and get aggressive. Being passive aggressive makes me feel uneasy and frivolous.


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## senlar (Jan 8, 2012)

I see FP and TJ Fis being passive aggressive in a fun/jousting manner.

I see Fes particularly TPs as being generally easy going and then blowing up on some issue, going from generally passive to aggressive.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

I would say Fi doms are more passive unless you trip a value, then they become rather agressive or sometimes assertive. I have never noticed an Fi user be passive-aggressive.


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

yeah, I don't think anyone would ever call me passive. even with my Fi. but, I am aggressive. you know where you stand with me.

course, my Fi is teeny.


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

@_SuperSoaker_

The thing is commonly Fe is associated with achieving harmony because harmony-seekers may use Fe-perspective to achieve, but Fe needn't (OK in the purest definition) really imply that you try for harmony. 

This is the biggest issue with typing based on trends -- the trends are often compatible with the cognitive perspective but not necessitated by it or directly induced by it.


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## incandesce (Aug 24, 2013)

Passive-aggressiveness is usually an indication that the person has issues expressing displeasure (or, often, emotional needs in a general sense) in a direct way. It's possible some types may be more prone to this behavior than others, but I doubt that's something that can be correlated with any specific function.


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## phoenixpinion (Dec 27, 2012)

SuperSoaker said:


> Could you be Fe and passive-aggressive?
> 
> I've noticed passive-aggressiveness in INTJ, INFP and ESFP girls and it made me think there's a pattern between Fi and passive-aggressive, which makes sense to me from my understanding of Fi...
> 
> What's your thoughts and experiences?


Only because they can read your feelings. They see you have none so they try to shoo you away. J/k...


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## Teybo (Sep 25, 2012)

If you buy into cognitive functions as a thing, you would think that people with Fe tend toward passive aggressive behavior because the whole idea of extraverted feeling is that the value of something is determined externally. It's hard to communicate passive aggressiveness when the whole process occurs internally as it is said to do with Fi types.

But I think functions are a bunch of hooey, so what do I know, eh?


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## DJeter (May 24, 2011)

Fi isn't passive aggressive. People are passive aggressive. Fi users might harbor resentment but not want to share it with you because it's personal to them, and so come across as passive aggressive. But Fe users might do the same thing, harbor resentment, though they would more likely do so because they want to maintain the illusion of a civil environment: "I didn't say anything!" might be said by the passive aggressive Fe user, capitalizing on not flouting the r​ules of discourse they have in their head, yet all observers around can see they have indeed built up a dam of anger.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

How nice an observation.
Sadly you are quite mistaken.
You my dear friend don't understand what you are talking about.
It isn't your fault.
You where mislead by the MBTI crowd.
But don't despair, if you read some Jung and do a halfassed effort,
I'm sure you will see the the error of your ways. :tongue:


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## elixare (Aug 26, 2010)

I find that passive-aggressiveness correlates with feeling and introversion in general (possibly the perceiving preference as well but not as much as feeling/introversion)

Thinkers tend to be more blunt than feelers in general hence less likely to be passive aggressive...and extroverts are less likely to be passive aggressive for obvious reasons....

I do overall find that Fi doms (IXFPs) tend to be the most passive aggressive (especially since many of them are E9)...nonetheless plenty of IXFJs also display passive aggressive tendencies and they're Fe based.....


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

SuperSoaker said:


> Could you be Fe and passive-aggressive?
> I've noticed passive-aggressiveness in INTJ, INFP and ESFP girls and it made me think there's a pattern between Fi and passive-aggressive, which makes sense to me from my understanding of Fi...
> What's your thoughts and experiences?


Fi: no.
Fe: definitely

in general, this is probably more correlated with Enneagram (9, 2 and p6 specifically)


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

The only reason Fi users would be any more likely to be passive aggressive is that they haven't figured out a way to respond to when they don't like something in their background (Fe mingles with the outer world more freely so it's less "clueless" a perspective on how to actively engage the objective source of dislike whilst the Fi user's outer demeanor is not necessarily reflective of their response to the feelings, but in uncontrolled instances, such as especially with a non-dominant position, may come out haphazardly), so it may be their only resort to sort of chuck some remark or another out.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> Fi: no.
> Fe: definitely
> 
> in general, this is probably more correlated with Enneagram (9, 2 and p6 specifically)


Yes, passive-aggressive behaviour is notoriously linked to phobic 6 and others SOM mentioned. It's fueled by fear/cowardice. So yeah, id agree this topic belongs more to the enneagram.


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