# Quitting masturbation as a man... the side effects



## Cheveyo

I'd never give up on wanking, myself. I see no reason to. I'm human, I have desires and I'm sure as hell not going to go out and force myself on women to deal with them.

IMO, denying your sexual desires is a crime. As long as you're not committing crimes to fulfill those desires.


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## dalsgaard

I once managed 10 days without masturbation. I got so damn horny I came by humping the mattress in my sleep. On the plus-side, I actually spoke to girls for a brief period. I never speak to girls.


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## Cheveyo

dalsgaard said:


> I once managed 10 days without masturbation. I got so damn horny I came by humping the mattress in my sleep. On the plus-side, I actually spoke to girls for a brief period. I never speak to girls.


Strange, I've always had an easier time talking to females when I was spanking my monkey on a regular basis. When I'd go without, I found my lust would keep me from looking them in the face, lest my eyes deceive my thoughts.


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## Yardiff Bey

OP - you should probably turn that extra energy towards doing physical workouts, build up a little muscle. Going to bed exhausted will help with sleeping problems, and exercising in the morning will help relax you through the day. This will also:

* up your self-confidence from having a better body
* increase your testosterone
* in general make you more attractive to girls

I remember reading somewhere about ejaculation helping to prevent prostate cancer. Google it.

Don't be surprised if after a while you have involuntary "ejaculations" while you are asleep. This is normal.


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## MissJordan

dalsgaard said:


> I once managed 10 days without masturbation. I got so damn horny I came by humping the mattress in my sleep.


I get dreams when I get horny.


_....Weird dreams....._


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## Paradox1987

Hmm, I don't think I could give up masturbation. Personally I am loath to allow my hormones to go out of kilter. I don't see what good it would do me to attempt to suppress my libido or pretend it isn't there, after all, I am male, I am subject to the whims of testosterone and other hormones. Therefore, I masturbate. I wouldn't try to quit because it isn't habit, or an addiction, as far as my own situation goes. 

I also think, for me anyway, stopping masturbating would be rather counter productive. When horny, I wouldn't think straight, I'd not be able to look a woman in the eye for too long, I daresay I'd get "roving eye syndrome", which is something I've managed to avoid since putting my teenage years behind me. I don't think giving up masturbation therefore would yield me any kind of reward, so if I have no incentive to do so; I won't.


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## MiriMiriAru

I can't see why anyone would do this. You have needs, if they are not fulfilled (in some way) you end up frustrated. Just do it, get it out of the way, and then, no problems. After masturbation, I don't feel empty, I feel nothing, which is exactly the goal I had for the task. I can't see the value in denying yourself fulfillment of a need, that if you aren't in a sexual relationship, you have no other way of fulfilling (unless you happen to be willing to visit a brothel).


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## DarklyValentine

I masturbate my 12 inch member 80 times a day

sorry i cant but help boast its girth


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## chickydoda

I remember watching that movie ''40 Days and 40 Nights'' when I was younger and the main character gave up sex for that period of time, and he had a lot more creative energy and was able to focus on other activities... I can't remember his reasons for quitting, but he found it easy for the first few weeks.

I don't know the side effects, but good luck to you!


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## ItsEvan

chickydoda said:


> I remember watching that movie ''40 Days and 40 Nights'' when I was younger and the main character gave up sex for that period of time, and he had a lot more creative energy and was able to focus on other activities... I can't remember his reasons for quitting, but he found it easy for the first few weeks.
> 
> I don't know the side effects, but good luck to you!


If I remember right, it was a bet or something.

But anyways, I'd sometimes constrain myself if I found someone particular that I was interested in. I don't talk to girls ever, nor do I with guys. If I hold back, I'd get a little more motivation to push myself out of my comfort zone to try and interact with the other sex.

The longest I've went without masturbating is about three weeks. I don't feel a specific need to masturbate, however I do find myself staring at certain...extremities of women more frequently, which is why I do it in the first place to avoid odd conflicts.

Other side effects for me include increased testosterone, I can lift more without really feeling pain, more energy, more determination, harder to think about other things than girls, easily distracted, etc.


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## Up and Away

double post sorry, see below


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## Jennywocky

Sounds like it's getting kind of tantric in here now. 

Reminds me of one of the vignettes in that old scifi book series Wild Cards, where Fortunato could channel his sexual energy into his prodigious mutant powers rather than expending it on actual sex. 



Cheveyo said:


> Strange, I've always had an easier time talking to females when I was spanking my monkey on a regular basis. When I'd go without, I found my lust would keep me from looking them in the face, lest my eyes deceive my thoughts.


Great. So if ever meet you and you refuse to make eye contact, I know exactly what's on your mind!!



DarklyValentine said:


> I masturbate my 12 inch member 80 times a day
> sorry i cant but help boast its girth


We're talking dicks here -- not your foot.


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## Up and Away

Yea its great, for the 11 days I usually lasted till when I was trying.

I don't feel there is anything wrong with orgasm though, as it is a way to release endorphines in the system.

However, I do think there are multiple problems with watching fake intimacy.

As far as the dopamine rush, which basically focuses in on one thing, the only problem with that is that it reinforces the neurological pathway for the action and raises the likelihood of repeated behavior.

Repeated behavior is fine though, just like anything in life, if it doesn't get in the way of our goals.

Monks have said their goal is to focus their energy, and have discipline.

I still think once in a while might be a good thing though, even if one did not have a person they were intimate.

It just depends.

One week is just the beginning. 50 days I have noticed in guys that have stopped for religious reasons, is when they begin to really gain control of it and gain confidence.

Until then, yes, running constantly, both away from the addiction as well as to burn off the energy is in order.

Accountability sites, people, removing temptation, all necessary things, there are sexaholics anonymous groups that all struggle with stuff like this that meet once a week.

I think deep meditation would be the only way for me to do this.

God (the force, whatever u call it if u believe in a mystical spiritual force), gives me both ups and downs in life, and unless I actually ground myself, hugely, I'd never have a chance at rewiring that specific neurological pathway.

Of course it is easy if one has an intimate partner to save up for though, but I don't think that is the point here.

We have to be solid to our values so much that we allow no room for temptation, or struggle, perhaps even cutting certain things and people completely out of our lives. 

And then, since we removed a bunch of things from our life we enjoy, we now have to replace those things with other things. Working out simply is not enough. New hobbies, new groups, new events, and most of all, letting go of the fear that has kept us back from simply being who we are and communicating our true deep ideas. Because holding back, creates the doubt that makes our mind just to the neurological pathways for immediate satisfaction and relief from that doubt and pain, and if we have one that is just begging for release, well, thats what happens.

We start to look a bit, then a bit more, we say well its ok to look, as long as we dont dwell. Its ok to touch, as long as we dont release. Yea, those games never end well, ever.

Its a noble purpose to have more energy, for the sake of other goals, for people that do have those kind of goals, which not everyone does of course.

Wow I just saw this:


Razare said:


> So, I think we can be more proactive than the male INFP... but it's ultimately met with failure 90% of the time since we're pretending. We can't compete with genuine S-types; and it's only effective on the worst sorts of women anyway.
> 
> @*Iconoclastic Visionary - yep >.< I'm starting to learn to redirect that energy elsewhere, but exercise doesn't get rid of all of it. I might have to learn to meditate in the end... I've been going down this eastern religious path because it fits closest to my belief system, and reading about interpretations on the Bhagavad Gita.*
> 
> *Initially this was very effective, learning to direct my internal energy toward God. The problem arises that my connection is weak with God and I don't think it can handle all of my sex drive. Yet it's still been helpful because I can feel that energy move around the different life-centers of my body, and I can tell it to go from the lowest spot, to my stomach, which still is bad... but manifests itself as angry frustration, rather than sexual energy.*


Looks like we are on the same page here, as far as plans.



mrscientist said:


> Okay. Have you considered the health issues with this decision aswell as the psyhological ones? I think abstinence in such a way is a bit unnatural? Or maybe masturbation is unnatural?


It is good to question this to come up with a rational belief and plan. A young healthy person isn't going to damage themselves by doing something like this, even if it does cause more distress initially (shown by wanting to punch things), and later in life, the spiritual fulfillment should outweigh any health side effects, if not physically, then definitely spiritually.

It is good to be aware of the side effects though. I would like to see some studies posted here or that have already been posted in similar threads. To see if there are actual side effects, I'd want to know who the sample group was in the study, and if it measured any long term effects. A group of spiritually fulfilled monks might differ than a group of religiously distressed people, and young people with young habits would probably most certainly differ from elderly with old habits.

One more thing, I really do feel pretty much the same endorphine rush when lifting hard, and I assume they both result in testosterone production.

I can see a benefit of orgasming once in a while, just like drinking a glass of wine once in a while. The problem is, people tend to separate sex from spirituality, and others tend to combine them in a dark mystical powerful way, as in they are "letting go" of their inhibitions and being "free" yet end up living simply to feel free over and over again, rather than living to serve others and create good on Earth.

I think there is a difference. Moderation is good, even moderation - oscar wilde

And it is easier to fight for what we believe in than to live up to it - alfred adler

But I think we can rationally look at the difference in spiritual goals within groups of people that value orgasming more so than others, presupposing we first accept the difference between people that are spiritual and those that are not concerning "purity of the body" in this way.

Even that being said, paganism might value it, and honestly I can't knock them for it.

All I know is that, if I have a dopamine rush, I can't focus on the orgasm AND God at the same time.

Attraction comes from distance and mystery. Sex therapists often say that to have hot sex, you HAVE to sin a little. You have to have less regard for someone and objectify them a bit.

We then call this objectification good and okay, because the other person WANTS it.

People WANT that sexual connection, for intimacy, but also because they like the dopamine rush.

ALl I'm saying is, if it is possible to have intimacy, without the dopamine rush towards sex, then it is possible to instead of focusing in, focus outward, connect to the world, using more than dopamine, and truly love someone.

yes, you can have deeper love with a person connecting to a wider perspective of life than the love you have with someone during sex which focuses on a limited perspective because of what the nature of the dopamine neurotransmittor

Ok I've bounced around a bit, but my point is that, its good for some people and is justified despite some negative side effects by the information I have laid out above, but it is also bad for some people depending on their beliefs or ability to handle themselves emotionally. Either way, it is good to look at all sides and decide for ourselves as we would all agree on for the most part.


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## mrscientist

Okay. Have you considered the health issues with this decision aswell as the psyhological ones? I think abstinence in such a way is a bit unnatural? Or maybe masturbation is unnatural?


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## WamphyriThrall

mrscientist said:


> Okay. Have you considered the health issues with this decision aswell as the psyhological ones? I think abstinence in such a way is a bit unnatural? *Or maybe masturbation is unnatural?*


No it isn't, otherwise you wouldn't see so many other animals doing it.


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## tooboku

Razare said:


> They're personal reasons, but basically I believe it's immoral even though we're innately wired to do this. I don't like doing anything that conflicts with my sense of morality. I've tried this several times before with mediocre success.


Maybe I missed this but could I ask for a reason why it is immoral? Please set up a premise and make a logical conclusion in your explanation. It would be interesting to hear.


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## Razare

tooboku said:


> Maybe I missed this but could I ask for a reason why it is immoral? Please set up a premise and make a logical conclusion in your explanation. It would be interesting to hear.


Each person defines their own morality to live by. I defined mine as such and try my best to live by it. I'm not expecting anyone else to share my point of view.

Now if you're wondering how I came to this conclusion for myself, it is because I was addicted to it. I would masterbate soley for the dopamine rush like Souled In described. But I did NOT enjoy it whatsoever. There would be times when I didn't even want to do it, my body *needed* it. Many times when masturbating, I didn't even like the woman I was looking at... I just needed something to look at to finish so I could satisfy the addiction.

Then there's the empty feeling afterward, which I hate. That feeling depresses me, makes me less confident, and works toward ruining my life.

Even in my last relationship this was a problem. You see, I didn't always have the energy for sex... long day at work or what have you. If I had any self control, I could have just laid off of it until the energy had built up and I was ready. But when you're addicted, you have no self control.

Now I find myself in a funny situation... sex isn't like alcohol, you don't give it up for life. So I just worry that eventually when I do have it again with a woman, the addiction will come back x.x

And I would consider going down the path of never again, for the rest of my life, except God speaks through my heart saying that's wrong too. I'm supposed to have kids and some type of relationship with a woman.

In summation there are 2 reasons for me to consider it immoral for me to masturbate.
1) My own belief, derived from personal life experience.
2) The connection to God in my heart also disagrees with it.

Keep in mind that God doesn't apply universal morality to everyone, so what he conveys to me might be different for someone else. It's about following Dharma, or "God's Will". Everyone has their own right path, following their spiritual self, rather than the ego self. That's what I'm talking about when I say this is moral behavior for me.


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## Razare

mrscientist said:


> Okay. Have you considered the health issues with this decision aswell as the psyhological ones? I think abstinence in such a way is a bit unnatural? Or maybe masturbation is unnatural?


Well I'm not going to claim to be abstinent. I guess you could look at it that way but I've already had some sex outside of marriage. It isn't about saving myself for someone... that's romanticized religious beliefs for women. I think they get a kick out of that idea. I'm not saying it's bad either, if it means something to them, then that's great. 

The health consequences so far have been wonderful. I'm eating less and have more energy, so I'm getting a lot of jobs done that needed doing.

You know, if it gives me cancer or something that doesn't bother me one bit. But considering I don't smoke, don't drink, and am living a healthier lifestyle as a result of this, I can't imagine it hurting me once you weigh it against the alternative.

Yes, I could start up again, feel depressed half the time, be too lazy to exercise or accomplish my building projects, eat more and put on weight.  It's pretty straightforward, lol. Man, had I only knew it would be this great when I was a depressed teenager, I would have given it a go.


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## tooboku

Thanks. That looks like sound reasoning to me. I can respect that. If it's something that's getting in the way of what you want out of life then there really isn't too much to argue against.

I honestly thought you were going to bring up a reference to Genesis 38:9. A lot of people take that out of context and is why a lot of Christians think masturbation is immoral. It's actually about the same thing you're talking about with "Dharma" although that's not a biblical term. He disobeyed God's direct command to procreate with his brother's widow so she could also be fruitful.

I think my record is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 13-15 times in a single day and 3 months without since I was 12. Maybe I'm weird but I I've never felt guilty, ashamed, or lonely aftwards at all. It's more like basic maintenance for me; keeping my libido in check and the sort. No different that taking a shower or brushing my teeth.


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## Razare

Haha, that's a lot in a day. My record might be 5.

The record I like better is how many times I made a lady go. 16, I think. I was exercising back then too which makes me a beast in the bedroom.


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## Himu

Effects of Male Masturbation on Attracting Women


Please read. It can only help.


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## Razare

That's a good read, Himu.

That chart gives me hope that this 1 week threshold I've hit is a temporary thing.

I weighed myself today and I thought that I would have been losing weight, no I gained about 8 to 10 pounds of muscle. All natural steroids FTW ;p


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## Voodo Chile

awesome. I'm willing to give it a try. 1 week...


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## Modifier

I dont mastubrate why ? because my job is physical and i need extra amount of energy besides i am saving myself for my wife


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## Up and Away

Himu said:


> Effects of Male Masturbation on Attracting Women
> 
> 
> Please read. It can only help.


Haha if there is a lot of pent up frustration, then quitting masterbation isn't necessarily a good thing.

That being said, its neurotransmittor release that can be had from working out and being productive, which can DEFINITELY help attract women, simply from the image and state of mind after doing such activities.


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## Ubuntu

Experts generally recommend that you ejaculate 3-4 times a week. It helps to prevent prostate cancer.


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## Just_Some_Guy

I've posted this elsewhere in these forums but it's worth repeating.

In the Daost system, sexual energy is called _jing _which is also physical energy, as you've noticed. When cultivated, this energy transforms into _chi,_ or subtle energy. Try some yoga or the like. You'll probably expereince this firsthand too. When _chi _is then restrained, it transforms into _shen_, or spiritual energy. This is cultivated through meditation. So, you're on the right track to some very interesting experiences if you can keep with it.


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## MiriMiriAru

Himu said:


> Effects of Male Masturbation on Attracting Women
> 
> 
> Please read. It can only help.


The guy in the article was starting to lose his shit after four days, and the OP is having problems after a week. I know I said it's a need, and to just attend to it as needed, but do you guys really need to do this that often? Sometimes I'll do this more frequently, but I routinely go a week or two without masturbation, or sex (often considerably longer without sex) and I experience no issues of note. No judgement is implied, I just found the comparison odd. It's probably just that I'm odd.


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## Razare

Well, the longest I've gone without it since I was 14, was maybe 2 or 3 weeks but only because I was majorly ill so I had no drive.


@*EmotionallyTonedGeometry - What's this chi do? This subtle energy?

Right now how it seems to be working for me is I channel my sexual energy into physical, and frankly I don't run out of energy now. I'm still wired at the end of a long day. Just my mind poops out eventually and I have to sleep.

Now, if I focus my energy upward, this energy is transformed into something else. Basically, I have to meditate, but I know I'm not doing it exactly right since I've not been trained.

Yet my spirit guides have been helping me, especially in the beginning. They were teaching me about my chakra in my dreams, which was very cool because I could experience things only people who've trained for years likely experience.

I *saw* my heart chakra, and heard the sound it made... which startled me so much I woke up. It was little dots of white light sparkling randomly in darkness. Later I learned those are called vritii (sp?) in the formal terminology.

I think I also heard my throat chakra one morning, it was like a deafening wind blowing through a forest, which also startled me and woke me up.

Now, back to what I can do while conscious. I think I can direct my energy up to my throat chakra, sometimes I feel it's blocked but if I keep at it it'll seem to clear up... there is a definite blockage in my 3rd eye chakra though. When the energy arrives in that area, I start to get a headache because it's being blocked I guess. I try to focus on my 3rd eye point, and sometimes I feel something there... but my third eye doesn't open. And it should feel calm up there if it's working right, and it doesn't, it feels like I got a head cold.

Last night while trying I felt blocked and I realized that perhaps it's the fact that I'm very brainy and intellectual. I hold strongly on to my brain, it's probably the most valued part in my body and most heavily used. I'm *always* thinking. To meditate properly, stopping my thinking likely isn't enough, I have to let go of it... plus my mind might have accumulated years worth of bad energy from being too intellectual and cynical about things.

What I'm really curious about is if my third eye opens, if I'll be able to see the spirit world properly. I occasionally catch glimpses here and there, that's one of the reasons I got into this eastern philosophy... it sort of has a physiological explanation for it.
*


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## nevermore

Usually when I go for a long time without masturbating (not ever on purpose, just because of a lack of desire) I actually desire sex less and less. There's that phase where you feel really horny, but after that it tapers off...your body becomes less sensitive to the testosterone. But then again my sex drive is probably below average.


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## Mutatio NOmenis

I once gave it up for about 3 weeks. By the end, I constantly had boners, wanted to fuck things, and wanted to go ape wild.


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## MiriMiriAru

nevermore said:


> Usually when I go for a long time without masturbating (not ever on purpose, just because of a lack of desire) I actually desire sex less and less. There's that phase where you feel really horny, but after that it tapers off...your body becomes less sensitive to the testosterone. But then again my sex drive is probably below average.


I've experienced this. I didn't masturbate or have sex for about 2 and a half months (until about a week or two ago). I just couldn't be bothered with the former, and for about two months of that period I had no interest really in the latter (in doing it, I indulged in fantasizing, but it was sufficient to keep it mental). But then, I suppose my sex drive is generally relatively low (generally... it's inconsistent).


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## JoetheBull

I thought about quitting masturbation before due to feeling depressed afterwards. Is there any special tricks to quitting?


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## Mutatio NOmenis

JoetheBull said:


> I thought about quitting masturbation before due to feeling depressed afterwards. Is there any special tricks to quitting?


Yes. Fuck.


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## Third Engine

Modifier said:


> I dont mastubrate why ? because my job is physical and i need extra amount of energy besides i am saving myself for my wife


That last sentence doesn't make any sense.

As for me, if I don't get myself off after a while, I just get horny as fuck and hit on everything that moves. I already have a high enough sex drive as it is.


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## Resolution

Quitting masturbation is impossible.

The energy builds up until you just end up jizzing in your sleep (wet dreams). It also greatly increases penis sensitivity, so your special "First time" is going to end with you exploding inside your girlfriend immediately. 

Not very special.


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## Cover3

JoetheBull said:


> I thought about quitting masturbation before due to feeling depressed afterwards. Is there any special tricks to quitting?


you just don't.


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## JoetheBull

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> Yes. Fuck.





Cover3 said:


> you just don't.


both seem to be somewhat impossible. looks like quitting real porn will be easier.


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## Razare

JoetheBull said:


> I thought about quitting masturbation before due to feeling depressed afterwards. Is there any special tricks to quitting?


Yes. The answer is if your drive is anything like mine, and you're addicted to it, then you likely wont succeed on your own. It depends on your inherent willpower. I know a guy who smoked, smoked for years and then met a girl who didn't like it. He quit cold-turkey and never went back... wow. I don't have that ability.

So the answer for someone like you or I is to cheat. You cheat with divine help, but also by learning about your physical/spiritual energy.

It may sound totally bogus for a non-believer, and if you don't believe, I doubt it would work. But if you can practice Kriya Yoga, you should have no problem doing it. Yet I never studied Kriya Yoga... but as I began watching youtube videos of a guy who knows about it, I received divine help which activated my life-centers for me, so I could feel what each of them was like when spiritually aligned toward God. This energy is something everyone feels but at an early age of our life, we relegated that feeling as unimportant and began ignoring it.

Kriya Yoga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now if you don't believe, what you'll have to do is this... Watch the Dog Whisperer and do what he does. That calm assertive energy that he possesses and utilizes is precisely the same energy. Just you wont feel it to the same degree as a spiritual person. It would be a calm-emptiness instead of a calm love is my guess, but believer or non-believer it's a healthy way to conduct your body.

Ultimately why this helps is that before you become sexually stimulated, there is a rush of energy down through the spine toward your sexual center. You can control that rush. You can stop it and move it back up toward your head.

You'll also fail many times as you attempt to succeed. A spiritual guy I watch on youtube discussed what to do in such a situation... do not get negative about it, simply tell yourself, "I haven't yet succeeded." You will succeed if you keep trying. You're affirming the positive goal you are going to achieve that way.

Stopping that rush is essential, and focusing your mind on a more positive goal... which realigns my energy with god.

And just an update, I'm almost 2 weeks in. Yesterday was very hard, I almost failed. I went and did chores outside, then stayed up until 4 am cleaning. I'm doing volunteer this weekend to burn off my energy.

In all my years I've never had this much energy, it's amazing.

Oh and another trick... right when you first try it, and the sexual rush hits you... when it becomes hard to resist. Stop yourself, but get angry about it. Embrace that frustration, and then release it through muscular exercise. It redirects your sexual energy into physical, which isn't as good as redirecting it toward spiritual, but it works.


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## Up and Away

Btmangan said:


> Quitting masturbation is impossible.
> 
> The energy builds up until you just end up jizzing in your sleep (wet dreams). It also greatly increases penis sensitivity, so your special "First time" is going to end with you exploding inside your girlfriend immediately.
> 
> Not very special.


Lol. How long have you lasted? I think once you hit 50 days one has a lot more control and one stops obsessing ont he female body as much, and started to learn their center, and soul. I only say this from observing people in a sexaholic anonymous group I went to that had hit 50 days. As far as wet dreams, yes I mean, if you don't replace one endorphine releasing activity with another one, we will just relapse.

You cant fight addiction, you can replace it. And how we feel, is shown in our dreams is all. There are better things than sex basically, but they take giving up the "short term satisfaction" of things like

making quick money
being accepted right away in social situations when people might ignore us
having an orgasm and releasing endorphines, or taking drugs
finding a quick girlfriend

Being connected to our purpose (whatever we feel that is individually, last night someone told me their purpose was to fill dark with light), and being connected through as a metaphor Razare is using, through every center in the body, in a very _lucid_ way, is connected much less short term than the things I listed above.

Basically, if life was like a meditation exercise, or prayer, and everything we did was for a purpose, and connected to the thought of why we were created, and eternity, we would be orgasming 24/7.

The pelvis chakra is just one of 7, and all 7 being open at the same time is 7 times better.

However, I definitely struggle with it. The reason I'm writing this stuff, is because I'm trying to incorporate more of this into my life. I'm going to check out the link Razare provided.

Hope you didn't mind me quoting ya and then going off on a tangent haha.

It all comes down to what someone feels their purpose is though. Anything then that gets in the way of that single purpose, is considered an addiction. I like Razare's metaphors from eastern societies because they give me something to focus on when i meditate, however, there are certainly thousands of things to focus on in life. It is the lucidity towards our purpose that has meaning, and all else, is insignificant in comparison. When the person told me last night their purpose was to fill dark with light, then that is their meaning. They should focus on that always, to the point of lucidity and being connected with it all day long. They dont need to ponder loving their neighbor, or focus on chakras, unless they want to, to aid their meaning, their purpose, and therefore their faith.

I know i might be putting too much down at one time lol. My apologies


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