# Wing + Wing = Core Type. Thoughts?



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

according to Maitri, each enneagram type is created by a combination of its two adjacent types. for example
E2 = E1 + E3
E4 = E3 + E5 

personally, I think it works in some instances, but not others. for example, I can definitely see how 7 is like a combination of 8 and 6 (though my opinion is biased as my wings are pretty balanced. a 7w6sw6w5 or 7w8sw8w9 might disagree) but it doesn't seem to work as well for other types.

for instance, how the hell do you combine 8 and 1 and get 9? 

it's like saying










+










=


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

E9 = E8 + E1 makes sense to me, though how to explain it... I mean, they are caught between all that resentment and lust, so it makes sense that they seek inner peace and turn to sloth, or else they would go insane. :tongue:


----------



## The Scorched Earth (May 17, 2010)

I don't think it works for type 1; 2 and 9 are both open and oriented toward people. Ones are very much the opposite.


----------



## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

I think 9 being 8 + 1 makes sense, too - caught between the id and the superego, two basically opposing forces, the 9 strives to maintain inner peace and balance.


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Ice Ghost said:


> I don't think it works for type 1; 2 and 9 are both open and oriented toward people. Ones are very much the opposite.


Hmm, I'll admit I don't get that one either. Not without looking at Maitri's explanation, anyway.


----------



## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Ice Ghost said:


> I don't think it works for type 1; 2 and 9 are both open and oriented toward people. Ones are very much the opposite.


I haven't actually read Maitri but this does make sense to me. I can sort of intuitively grasp how pretty much all the types are sort of a "combination" of their wings. 

"1" between "2" and "9" makes sense to me. Not necessarily behaviorally, but when you look at *motivation*.


A One might feel disgruntled, disturbed and "off" when the path to what is "right" is somehow obstructed. This could be when the One feels prevented from taking the "right" course of action, or when surrounding people deviate from what One considers proper and correct. From my observation, when this happens, a One can become disoriented, and unable to relax until things are back on the ideal track for them. Seems to me like whatever is "innately" unsavory to Oneness, is unsavory in a way that disturbs their sense of inner peace. 

A One is also generally concerned with things being "fair" and efficient, in a way that affects everyone around them as well. At least when I feel more integrated towards One (I'm a Four lol), I know that I'm concerned with kindness and humanity on a larger scale. One can be a very ethics-oriented type, obviously, and I can see how this might be "borrowed" in a sense from Two's concern with helping and doing right by others. 


Long story short: If nine is concerned with inner peace and harmony, and two is concerned with being helpful, needed and appreciated? It makes sense that a One seeks to feel "okay" with the world (nine-like) by pursuing a sense of rightness and perfection, which would also help them establish recognition/a role as someone who does right by others (two-like).


----------



## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> for instance, how the hell do you combine 8 and 1 and get 9?


Well if you combine Eight's desire to feel in control, and One's desire to conform to and actualize their ideals, I can see how you get the Nine (who wishes to exist constantly within a realm where "everything is okay"). In other words, the Nine seeks to maintain control by way of maintaining ideal circumstances (in other words, maintaining a sense of inner-harmony).


----------



## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

I feel both my wings, personally. The motivations are there about equally, though I tend to favor one side a bit more in my coping strategies. I can go into how it works for me if anyone's interested.

Actually, SoM, I've been thinking about this a lot--I don't know if the wings necessarily create some "shadow" that acts as your core type, or if the psychologies really do all exist along a spectrum and we can see ourselves in our neighbors. I don't know. 

I struggled with E9 being between 1 and 8 at first myself, but having two 9 parents I can kind of see that, and I am in agreement with prior commentors. Basically, there's this resistance towards being affected by outer and inner worlds and a sort of earthy stubbornness that I associate with E8. Plus, there's a certain propensity for them to see themselves as "good", to suppress aggressive impulses from the 1. Basically, they're caught in that tension (embracing rage or controlling it) and deal with it by just sort of blanking out. At their best, they're in touch with their own power and rightness, and can unify opposites, just as they have done within themselves. At their worst, they're completely shut down, callous toward the outer world and the suffering they cause, and unable to see themselves as actually being the perpetrators since they're sooo well-intentioned.

I'm only talking about the two 9s I've witnessed the most of, so other 9s feel free to correct me. But, I definitely see the 8-9-1 in both of them, so I can see how it works.


----------



## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Ice Ghost said:


> I don't think it works for type 1; 2 and 9 are both open and oriented toward people. Ones are very much the opposite.


Using the fact that 9 and 2 are both positive in conflict strategy, both try to evade the problem in some way (9s by being passive or "agreeable," and 2s by portraying themselves in a more favorable light to make light of the situation or "alleviate" the situation) 1 wants to eradicate the problem because resorting to either strategy would make little or no sense to them. "Neither of the others are solving or acknowledging the real problem and I have an obligation to do something about it." I think my dad is a type 1, and he's always getting quite upset with me for how passive I am, especially when it comes to talking about social issues or his religious beliefs (we had a little argument about this yesterday actually). It speaks volumes about 1 being seen as a perfectionist and competent type, I'd say.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I just noticed a bizarre pattern 

adjacent Superego type + adjacent Id type = positive outlook type
adjacent Superego type + adjacent Ego type = competency type
adjacent Id type + adjacent Ego type = reactive type


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I just noticed a bizarre pattern
> 
> adjacent Superego type + adjacent Id type = positive outlook type
> adjacent Superego type + adjacent Ego type = competency type
> adjacent Id type + adjacent Ego type = reactive type


Gotta love how neat the Enneagram can be. :laughing:


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Here's an interesting pattern:

8 and 1 have all the same influences. Has anyone had trouble distinguishing their gut fix between 8 and 1, or their core type? Has anyone browsed endlessly through "8 vs 1" threads to try to make this distinction? Well guess what. ; )

8 is surrounded by two pos outlooks: 9 and 7. It has a line to another pos: 2. Its inverse is 4. It disintegrates to 5.
1 is surrounded by two pos outlooks: 9 and 2. It has a line to another pos: 7. Its inverse is 5. It disintegrates to 4.


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I feel both of my wing influences. I can't even decide which one is dominant. Maitri describes some people flipping between their wing influences at different times in their lives, and this has been my experience.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Animal said:


> I feel both of my wing influences. I can't even decide which one is dominant. Maitri describes some people flipping between their wing influences at different times in their lives, and this has been my experience.


this is probably true me then


----------



## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Nonsense said:


> Gotta love how neat the Enneagram can be. :laughing:


In essence, we are all human anyway, so it makes sense that there are 'overall' patterns in a good personality system.

(Sorry, 4s and 5s, yes, I just said WE ARE ALL THE SAME, muahahahaa) 


:angry:​


----------



## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Animal said:


> In essence, we are all human anyway, so it makes sense that there are 'overall' patterns in a good personality system.
> 
> (Sorry, 4s and 5s, yes, I just said WE ARE ALL THE SAME, muahahahaa)
> 
> ...



Haha, well, honestly I am THRILLED by finding the patterns, and by extension, am intrigued and somewhat comforted by the commonalities between all people within the system. It organizes the chaos and complexity, which opens the door to further discovery, which helps me gain a deeper understanding of the system. And I love understanding systems!

Finding patterns helps it seem more believable and valid, which I think is reasonable, even if that approach is logically fallible and full of potential psychological traps


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I see no problem with 8 + 1 being 9. 

But seriously.
For me the want to project anger outward vs the want to repress it.
It makes sense to just zone out and pretend that you're not angry.
That is what is happening for me. I basically forget there even was an issue.

Earlier I was far more likely to repress it conciously.
Nowadays, I'm far more likely to project it outward and act on it.
So I'm sure that not only do the two wings add up to the type, but you can move around the circle.

1w9 can move to 1w2 to 2w1 to 2w3 to 3w2 to 3w4 to 4w3 to 4w5 etc etc until 9w1 to 1w9.
Now the mental energy and emotional torment needed to drive oneself around the circle,
makes it highly unlikely that anyone would move very far.
You wouldn't have any resources for anything else than shifting your defence mechanisms.
Cause that is what this is about, to move one must reject one defence mechanism in favor of another.
It doesn't feel safe to make the switch cause what if something goes wrong and you are left with no defence.
So we cling to our safe and known way of dealing with the world.
And if me move we only move to a neighbouring and somewhat familiar paradigm or we cop out ad disinterate,
or take the the path of glory and integrate towards a higher level.


----------



## Grunfur (Oct 23, 2011)

If you think about it enneagram type is just going from most basic human interaction to most complex. I have a theory called enneagram "wheel of relations". 
1 = improve self
2 = improve others
3 = conform to others
4 = differentiate from others
5 = detach from others
6 = seek security from others
7 = assert self among others
8 = control others
9 = feel at peace with others

You can see as you go through each type it is really just transitioning into the other (on the surface) even though motivations may be different.


----------



## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

It makes perfect sense to me.

1 = caught between the anger suppression of the 9 and the pride of the 2, which results in being perpetually irritated and correcting.
2 = caught between the strong superego of the 1 and the image-focus of the 3, which results in an identity based on how desirable they are in relationships.
3 = caught between the need to be attractive of the 2 and the desire for personal identity of the 4, which results in a sense-of-self based on their accomplishments and performances.
4 = caught between the image-and-performance-focused nature of the 3 and the feeling of inadequacy and reclusiveness (is that a word?) of the 5, which results in an identity that forms off of their dramatic internal world.
5 = caught between the strong imagination/fantastical internal environment of the 4 and the anxiety and precaution of the 6, which results in a need to retreat and hoard knowledge as a defense against the dangers of the outside world.
6 = caught between the recoiling and external fears of the 5 and the expansiveness and internal fears of the 7, which results in a constant back-and-forth between fight-and-flight, and also moving towards but then backing away.
7 = caught between the anxieties and insecurities of the 6 and the lustful, physically-oriented aggression of the 8, which results in gluttony and pleasure-seeking as an escape from the inside world.
8 = caught between the outrageous, self-centered, hyper energy of the 7 and the deadened, down-to-earth, stubbornness of the 9, which results in a lack of self-control and a thirst for anger and intensity.
9 = caught between the potent, autonomous, conflict-focus of the 8 and the inhibited, obedient, self-controlled nature of the 1, which results in such a strong internal conflict that they become very fatigued, so they completely check out, and lazily conform to the environment.


----------



## RedRedo (Jul 8, 2014)

Nope. What you have to ask yourself isn't whether you can see this pattern, but rather whether you would still see this pattern if the Enneagram were randomly rearranged. The Enneagram is now: 8 1 4 9 2 5 7 3 6.

Can you see how 2 is so desperate to help people and keep them around, with 9 and 5 combining and conspiring to make 2 the loneliest type? How 2's people-pleasing resembles 9's conflict avoidance, and how an unhealthy 2's manipulation to keep people around comes from 5's tendency to always feel rejected. (Sure, expressive two looks weird put between withdrawn 5 & 9, but avoidant 9 looks just as weird between aggressive 9 and 1.)

Or imagine 3 as the combination of its wings 6 and 7. 3 is future- and action-oriented from being part 7, but due to 6, makes it all about keeping people close. So while 7 roams free, 3 puts all its action and planning into looking prestigious. Keeping high in people's esteem means keeping that group/cause close to three, much like what 6 tries to do through loyalty. How about 8, getting its justice focus from 1's strict morality, but breaking out of the rigidity of it and being even more aggressive than 1 due to counter-phobia from 6.

Not perfect examples, but I'm an amateur putting a few minutes into this off the top of my head. Imagine a seasoned Enneagram expert putting hundreds of hours into studying this idea. They would make it work, with any order of types.

I love the Enneagram and find it useful, but I've always seen its symmetry as the weakest thing about it.


----------



## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

The symmetry of the diagram, and also wing theory is gimmicky and sometimes feels forced. _However_. The more I realize how both 9 and 2 influence my habits, the more open I become to looking at each type as a "hybrid" of the two next to it. It's not to be taken as a rule or a substitute for simply understanding the type as it is, but can be interesting to just think about. 

If you think about type 8, for example - 7 is gluttony, expansively searching from one thing to the next. 9 is a sense of valuelessness and self-forgetting. With 8, you have a type that expands outward for more and more, and lacks attention to what the self really needs. You get lust, and the 8's habit to devour more and more and more, losing sight of their inner softness. 

With 1, you have the 9 as described above, and 2, which is about pride and overvaluing one's own importance or lack thereof. 1's, like 8's, are insulated from their own needs, but also struggle to form a realistic assessment of themselves, what they can do, and how valuable or loveable they are. You get someone who corrects themselves and others for the "appealing better," but struggles to get out of their conservative, lazy ideas of what "should be" and gets locked into anger when they always have to deal with the gap that occurs between these two in the imperfect world


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

To be honest I think the framework is helpful.
But when it breaks down you need to realize that the framework != reality.

To me it seems like that type of framework is useful.
Wings seem like a nice way to give you a broader perspective.
It seems to me that when you only focus on your core type, 
the disintegration can become a self-fullfilling profecy.
When you are told that you can use the wing perspective,
as a buffer against disintegrating you feel more empowered.

The biggest danger with the enneagram is that it can trap your focus if you focus on the negative parts.
It aligns pretty well with the "law of attraction", if you focus on disintegration and the reasons for it,
you will almost certainly fall into it, especially if you have little balance in your life to begin with.
The best way is to have a postitive interpretation having integration in focus and the wings as helpful tools.


----------

