# How do you think



## ai.tran.75

How vivid are your imagination?
what senses can you feel or use when thinking about something ?
Is it more visual /verbal/audio ?
Do multiple thoughts play out at once or are you more singular focus 
When conversing with somebody - what thoughts crosses your mind- do you have any thoughts at all


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## Llyralen

@ai.tran.75 So far it seems the SPs have the most vivid pictures in their mind visually and possibly for recalling smells and feels and tastes that we have heard so far, anyway, but not as much music. And the NFs seem to have all the abstract stuff, but amazingly music seems very clear in many of our NF minds with perfect recall. The NTs minds never stop and seem abstract in images as well, they also seem to experience music clearly, correct? 

SJs... it would be interesting to hear from you. =)


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## ai.tran.75

Alesha said:


> @ai.tran.75 So far it seems the SPs have the most vivid pictures in their mind visually and possibly for recalling smells and feels and tastes that we have heard so far, anyway, but not as much music. And the NFs seem to have all the abstract stuff, but amazingly music seems very clear in many of our NF minds with perfect recall. The NTs minds never stop and seem abstract in images as well, they also seem to experience music clearly, correct?
> 
> SJs... it would be interesting to hear from you. =)


Yeah from observation - Ne have multiple thoughts and can recall voices, abstract with image. NI similar but more singular focus . Fi- remembers emotions of situation however I need more isfp and infp to respond . 
SE is very visual. 
I'm still waiting for Si to respond. I notice intuitive have more abstract thoughts than sensor at this point, but Si is subjective so let's see ... 
How do you recall memories ? 



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## Llyralen

ai.tran.75 said:


> Yeah from observation - Ne have multiple thoughts and can recall voices, abstract with image. NI similar but more singular focus . Fi- remembers emotions of situation however I need more isfp and infp to respond .
> SE is very visual.
> I'm still waiting for Si to respond. I notice intuitive have more abstract thoughts than sensor at this point, but Si is subjective so let's see ...
> How do you recall memories ?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I can't remember what his name was (maybe he will appear), but there was a ISFJ here whose tagline was a quote: "The past beats in my breast like a second heart." Something like that. And I thought... wow that's what a dom Si must feel. They should get on here and start beating us all out with their visual and senory memory, wouldn't you think?
Calling all Si users!

How do I recall memories?: It's all abstract. Every time I write that word, I feel like looking it up. Of course I know what abstract means, but I bet any S-user would wonder about what the experience of abstract is.... I think what I wrote about the raspberry taste applies. It's more like I remember the sensations that the pleasure of the raspberry causes in me better than the taste of the raspberry. You know what? Because you are able to remember the taste of raspberries clearly, it's making me think I need to eat more Mindfully. Also I am amazed and love it that you experience the same thing as me with the art images flashing and that you find it disturbing too! How awesome that we share that! Yeah, I haven't attempted to draw or paint or sculp any of the images that flash like that because they disturb me. I remember the colors and shapes of those flashes better than I remember the objects in the room around me, actually. You know how I view my mind like a stage with background, midground, and forefront? and then people speaking to me, me speaking or writing, or research is even closer and is the 4th part of my brain-stage? Well, I think when I'm talking or writing that that becomes my thought, theres not any 5th thought riding underneath it, unless I'm introsecting. I bet other people plan out what they are going to say right before they say it?
What about you, Ai? You're such a neat person and a peace-maker, Ai. =)


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## ai.tran.75

@Retsu @Pinina @Coburn @Wisteria @Librarian if you have the time ... I'm really curious about your thought processes 

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## ai.tran.75

Alesha said:


> I can't remember what his name was (maybe he will appear), but there was a ISFJ here whose tagline was a quote: "The past beats in my breast like a second heart." Something like that. And I thought... wow that's what a dom Si must feel. They should get on here and start beating us all out with their visual and senory memory, wouldn't you think?
> Calling all Si users!
> 
> How do I recall memories?: It's all abstract. Every time I write that word, I feel like looking it up. Of course I know what abstract means, but I bet any S-user would wonder about what the experience of abstract is.... I think what I wrote about the raspberry taste applies. It's more like I remember the sensations that the pleasure of the raspberry causes in me better than the taste of the raspberry. You know what? Because you are able to remember the taste of raspberries clearly, it's making me think I need to eat more Mindfully. Also I am amazed and love it that you experience the same thing as me with the art images flashing and that you find it disturbing too! How awesome that we share that! Yeah, I haven't attempted to draw or paint or sculp any of the images that flash like that because they disturb me. I remember the colors and shapes of those flashes better than I remember the objects in the room around me, actually. You know how I view my mind like a stage with background, midground, and forefront? and then people speaking to me, me speaking or writing, or research is even closer and is the 4th part of my brain-stage? Well, I think when I'm talking or writing that that becomes my thought, theres not any 5th thought riding underneath it, unless I'm introsecting. I bet other people plan out what they are going to say right before they say it?
> What about you, Ai? You're such a neat person and a peace-maker, Ai. =)


Hey there- when it comes to memories my mind would kinda time travel back to a train of thoughts or conversation- I will feel as if I'm at that age in that moment again but only for a brief moment- it's wonderful yes but unfortunately my memories only come to me when I'm sad or when something tragic is occurring in my life - sometimes reading my old journal entry help me vaguely experience a train of thought that Ive had during the time. 
Yeah I can recall taste very well in my mind- not so much when I'm dreaming though, I think it's because of my love for food  oh yeah i can only recall tastes i enjoy - I mean I don't recall what bitter taste like unless it's bittersweet so in a way my memory of tastes is bias ( I'm glad it is- I don't remember how food I dislike tastes like ) 
Yeah I was actually shock when I read about your random color and shape flashes- it sends chills down my spine just now- an image of weird floating squares in yellow and black just flashed in my mind. For the longest time I thought every one have multiple trsijn of thoughts and conversation running through their mind. 
I think before I verbalize most of the time- however there were many train of thoughts occurring at the same moment- it's odd- kinda like I have a main focus- but like you stated, a few back ground stages also runs around . 
Oh I notice when reading something very detail oriented- I can visualize it and feel as if I'm there for a brief moment. 
You know I pride myself for having vivid thoughts but when conversing with Se user - they actually see images and can rearrange and fix the image they visualize, funny how subjective the word vivid could be. 

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## Llyralen

@ai.tran.75 That's a great way to describe the "abstract" memory or visualization. It's what I was trying to think of. I also get like a second or two of a more complete picture--- not the whole picture though, and then sometimes I'll get some detail but not anything else, everything else will be lines and some colors. Like if I'm thinking about this new avatar of mine. I get the red color (the raspberry color! lol ) and I get an outline of her face in a flash and often I get a highlight of light to give the impression of the sunshine if there is some. Going back to the raspberry. I can picture the raspberry for a few seconds and then my mind "holds" the idea of the color, the dust on it (that's the detail I envisioned actually from @Northern Lights description), the sunshine by way of light highlights, the green behind. I can keep getting flashes of the entire raspberry when I tell my mind to keep returning, but my mind doesn't want to "hold' it for more than a few seconds. Hmm... is it like that for you, kind of?


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## Northern Lights

Alesha said:


> How do I recall memories?: It's all abstract. Every time I write that word, I feel like looking it up.


So do I. But I found I have a very perfect example for my idea of abstract memories: Like I said, I don't remember bad feelings. I just know I felt bad, and I know what "feeling bad" feels like, but that means it's the concept of the feeling I recall -- not the feeling.

Which, if you think about it, at least makes sense within the theory we have (super low S vs. super low F). It stands to reason you should be able to recall (or recreate to a degree, even) exactly how you felt when eating the raspberry in some situation. Is that the case?


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## Llyralen

Northern Lights said:


> So do I. But I found I have a very perfect example for my idea of abstract memories: Like I said, I don't remember bad feelings. I just know I felt bad, and I know what "feeling bad" feels like, but that means it's the concept of the feeling I recall -- not the feeling.
> 
> Which, if you think about it, at least makes sense within the theory we have (super low S vs. super low F). It stands to reason you should be able to recall (or recreate to a degree, even) exactly how you felt when eating the raspberry in some situation. Is that the case?


Yes, exactly! To your first paragraph. I may have ot think about the 2nd paragraph. 
I can't taste it, but I remember how I felt or the concept, as you've described, of how I felt in response to the raspberry. Yes. Like a memory of the concept of peace and warmth in the sun and a memory of the concept of the pleasure of the raspberry. @ai.tran.75 can remember the actual taste of the raspberry, and we thought you could (?) which makes me think (you probably read me say this) that I need to train myself to concentrate on tastes-- Mindful Eating rather than just eating. 
This is not so with music, though. I can hear the music in my mind clearly. My ISTP dad who loves classical and raised me with it, he always said Beethoven who composed while deaf could compose because he could hear the music in his mind. I didn't know why my dad impressed this on me, usually he doesn't try to impress ideas on others, and it seemed easy to accept to me. I wonder if my dad doesn't hear music in his mind like I do.... which I will have to find out... and which seems crazy to me because he gave all this music to me my whole life. He finds the best recordings of everything and his ear is perfect. Goodnight Northern Lights! It's fun contrasting and talking to you! =)


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## Northern Lights

Alesha said:


> ... and we thought you could (?)


Yes, but I realised I lack the words to describe it. I know exactly what it tastes like, and I know what it tasted like last summer (it wasn't entirely ripe when I picked one), but all I end up with is a tautology -- the raspberry tasted like raspberry. And not like cranberries, which I also picked and ate, but can't describe either. This drives me slightly nuts, actually. I have to eat more and see if I can't find words for it.

But ultimately -- what I remember is the raw taste, that's why there are now words to begin with. If I could describe it, I probably would have abstracted from the taste. So that seems to be a different step, and easier for visual things. Interesting.

Anyway, good night to you too :happy:


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## Wisteria

ai.tran.75 said:


> How vivid are your imagination?
> what senses can you feel or use when thinking about something ?
> Is it more visual /verbal/audio ?
> Do multiple thoughts play out at once or are you more singular focus
> When conversing with somebody - what thoughts crosses your mind- do you have any thoughts at all


Wow, a lot of functions can come into this. This will probably lean more towards introversion for me;

I don't have a vivid imagination anymore, it was something I sort of grew out of. As I got older I become a lot more practical and realistic, was the complete opposite when I was younger. When I was a kid I used to be able to draw something completely out of my head, now it takes a conscious effort to do something like and need to observe the detail of whatever I am drawing first.

The second question is unclear to me. It depends what I'm thinking about. Recalling a memory, it is of course blurry and I mostly remember the feeling associated with it. I recall words or the conversation the most, things that seemed subtle and unimportant at the time that now have more significance because I'm old enough to understand. If it's problem solving, then I will try to think about it visually - I'm mostly a visual learner. Decision making, I will think of the consequences, or what happened last time.

Probably singular. I prefer to focus on one thing at a time, bring all my attention and efforts to it.

Yes, maybe too many as I forget to actually say much (kind of a downside to being an introvert). I'm quite judgemental, trying to decide what I think of the person, if I have anything in common with them and what I don't, and deciding if they're genuine basically. Every small thing they do will leave some kind of impression on me. I don't think I'm very good at figuring people out though, which leads to...maybe not paranoia, but overthinking.


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## ai.tran.75

Wisteria said:


> Wow, a lot of functions can come into this. This will probably lean more towards introversion for me;
> 
> I don't have a vivid imagination anymore, it was something I sort of grew out of. As I got older I become a lot more practical and realistic, was the complete opposite when I was younger. When I was a kid I used to be able to draw something completely out of my head, now it takes a conscious effort to do something like and need to observe the detail of whatever I am drawing first.
> 
> The second question is unclear to me. It depends what I'm thinking about. Recalling a memory, it is of course blurry and I mostly remember the feeling associated with it. I recall words or the conversation the most, things that seemed subtle and unimportant at the time that now have more significance because I'm old enough to understand. If it's problem solving, then I will try to think about it visually - I'm mostly a visual learner. Decision making, I will think of the consequences, or what happened last time.
> 
> Probably singular. I prefer to focus on one thing at a time, bring all my attention and efforts to it.
> 
> Yes, maybe too many as I forget to actually say much (kind of a downside to being an introvert). I'm quite judgemental, trying to decide what I think of the person, if I have anything in common with them and what I don't, and deciding if they're genuine basically. Every small thing they do will leave some kind of impression on me. I don't think I'm very good at figuring people out though, which leads to...maybe not paranoia, but overthinking.


How are your fantasy like when you're a child?

Do you recall voice , tastes or sounds in your mind? Does music help you think better or do you daydream to music? 
If you were to lose something- how would you trace your thoughts to find something 

Also when reminiscing something- do you recall the emotion of the situation or justntge events that occurred 

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## jcal

@*ai.tran.75* 



*How vivid are your imagination?*
Not particularly at all, at least how I define "imagination". My focus is typically on solving real-world problems... my recollection of real details is quite vivid and I often use them in understanding/solving current problems and situations, but it does not fall under the definition of "imagination". 
*What senses can you feel or use when thinking about something?*
Recollections of all types of previously experienced sensory details are all quite vividly detailed, and I can consciously call them up virtually at will. 
*Is it more visual /verbal/audio?*
While they are all quite good, there are not all equally good. From best to least best, I would order them:
Taste/Smell 
Visual 
Auditory 
Touch/Feel 
 
*Do multiple thoughts play out at once or are you more singular focus? *
Singular focus... VERY focused on one train of thought at a time. 
*When conversing with somebody - what thoughts crosses your mind- do you have any thoughts at all?*
Thoughts are nonstop, which often makes having real-time conversations difficult. Every response I formulate is usually mentally prepared and iteratively proofread/corrected for accuracy, consistency, etc. before I deliver it verbally. 

There's usually a fine line walked between giving full attention to the other person and preparing a response. If I start preparing my response before the other person has finished, they can tend to actually fade away from my awareness as my mind singularly focuses on the response. If I suppress the thoughts while the other person is speaking, there will often be a slow/delayed response while I engage my internal due diligence process. 

This appears to be a rather common ISTJ trait, but I personally feel like I'm at the extreme end... or at least it feels that way to me. At our best, we tend to have a slow, halting speech delivery as we try to keep the "speech buffer" full. At our worst, we can often tend to get behind in a conversation. Funny thing is that it has nothing to do with being "slow" in general. I'd bet that ISTJ are at or near the top in the amount information we mentally process in our day to day activities... it's more about our cautious insistence on considering EVERYTHING and making sure we are about to say EXACTLY what we intend to say before we issue our responses.


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## Wisteria

ai.tran.75 said:


> How are your fantasy like when you're a child?
> 
> Do you recall voice , tastes or sounds in your mind? Does music help you think better or do you daydream to music?
> If you were to lose something- how would you trace your thoughts to find something
> 
> Also when reminiscing something- do you recall the emotion of the situation or justntge events that occurred
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Something made up, role play, inventing something from my imagination. They kind of varied a lot i think, could have been acting a scene or something in my surroundings. I was pretty strange as a kid c:

I recall voice/taste/sound but not strongly, maybe could if I tried? When I think about a memory it is more like a snapshot of that moment, or a glimpse of it, rather than a series of events or something really vivid.

I listen to music to get energy and motivation, and use it to be able to study for longer. I even chose certain genre depending on the activity. Idk if it helps my concentration or makes it worse though. 

When I lose something I think "where would I place this down if I were holding it right now?" (that's probably a Ti thing?) If that doesn't work then it's usually hidden under something. 

The emotion of the situation more so - isn't that why we have certain memories of a moment? There is a feeling attached to it.


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## jcal

Northern Lights said:


> I don't remember bad feelings. I just know I felt bad, and I know what "feeling bad" feels like, but that means it's the concept of the feeling I recall -- not the feeling.


Very much true for me. I'm just shy of 62 years old and cannot ever remember having a vivid/realistic recreation of an emotion/feeling in the same way I can recall realistic duplicates of sensory experiences.


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## ai.tran.75

Wisteria said:


> Something made up, role play, inventing something from my imagination. They kind of varied a lot i think, could have been acting a scene or something in my surroundings. I was pretty strange as a kid c:
> 
> I recall voice/taste/sound but not strongly, maybe could if I tried? When I think about a memory it is more like a snapshot of that moment, or a glimpse of it, rather than a series of events or something really vivid.
> 
> I listen to music to get energy and motivation, and use it to be able to study for longer. I even chose certain genre depending on the activity. Idk if it helps my concentration or makes it worse though.
> 
> When I lose something I think "where would I place this down if I were holding it right now?" (that's probably a Ti thing?) If that doesn't work then it's usually hidden under something.
> 
> The emotion of the situation more so - isn't that why we have certain memories of a moment? There is a feeling attached to it.


I played pretend and have imaginary friends( i knew they were imaginary) as a child as well. 

Interesting - when I lose something I'll retrace my memory to where I recall seeing it last and replay each scene in my head through chronological order 

Yeah I don't recall emotion from a situation but reminiscing a situation will often time make me emotional- 

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## ai.tran.75

@jcal
Hmm I don't think I can recall touch or sensation as well either but auditory would top my list- I can recall voices , music quite vividly- do you have conversations in your mind- or do you narrate your thoughts? If so is it used in your own voice 
Thanks for responding - I notice Istj talks slower but I'm an Ne dom so I talk faster than most- my thoughts runs even faster. 

You mention smell and taste as your 1, how would you describe the taste of raspberry or smell of baked apple pies- along that line 

How does memory work for you, like if you were to go look for something you misplaced or trying to remember a conversation 

Whats your earliest memory ? 

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## Coburn

*How vivid is your imagination?*

Pretty vivid. Things I imagine I see in a fair amount of detail.

*What senses can you feel or use when thinking about something ?*

Not sure how to answer this. You mean in the process of thinking itself, as in how do I vocalize thoughts internally? Or what I think about? Or what senses I use when recalling something?

*Is it more visual /verbal/audio ?*

Are we talking about just thinking? About the past, future, present? I'm hopelessly lost. Please send help.

*Do multiple thoughts play out at once or are you more singular focus *

My thought process is scattered and fragmented. I am constantly moving between possibilities. It's very rare I have a singular focus.

*When conversing with somebody - what thoughts crosses your mind- do you have any thoughts at all*

When talking to someone I want to talk to: I am exploring possibilities created by what they are saying. I am measuring it against things they have said in the past, either to discover new revelations ("different things click together to form a new realization") or to realize contradictions and inconsistencies in their values and thoughts. 

I ask an obscene amount of questions when talking to someone. It's probably one of my most defining characteristics.


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## ai.tran.75

@Coburn
Thanks for your reply - I'm always most intrigued by them 

I guess I meant when thinking or recalling memories ( or imagination) can you use senses such as visual- verbal-touch- tastes- smell etc could be thinking about past present and future 

I meant how you vocalize your thought internally or what sense you recall when retracing a memory 
For example- what thought comes out to play when I ask you to think of autumn or can you remember what a person look like through your thoughts? 

For example - my thoughts are mainly conversational, but I'll have light images of movie like scene playing- along with thoughts of introspection running all at once 
It's easy for me to recall voice , sound or taste 
With image and touch I need to use more concentration, even so the image is abstract and not clear in my mind . My mind never stops - unless I'm extremely intrigue in writing , reading or watching a movie- if that's the case then I'll usually enter the story within itself and have light visual memory of it 



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## ISTJ_1x2

I’m always overthinking things and my brain is constantly running, but I think it would be interesting to talk more about creativity and senses I feel when I’m thinking.

*There's this creepy thing I do* when I’m tuned out of "real life" and have nothing else urgent to do or think about. This is my introverted sensing talking here:
If I try to picture a specific person's face, I see them the last time I made real, meaningful eye contact with them. I don’t see whatever’s in front of me, I see this moving picture (complete with background) of them instead. And, it's like I can physically hear a snippet of whatever they were saying, and whatever the background noise was like. If there was a noticeable smell, whether their cologne or something else important to that situation, it comes back to me too. I’m overwhelmed by the same feeling I felt when it happened in real life too, whether it was tension, fear, happiness, etc. I can physically feel my heart get lighter when I picture my sister. 

An good example would be if I picture my uncle. The whole scene is focused on him, the background is a little out of focus but I can totally tell we’re in his basement before it was renovated. He was wearing an orange shirt. Everything suddenly goes quiet and his voice gets louder and louder until he’s full-out yelling at me. I can hear the white noise of my relatives talking in the background. I can smell bacon grease and ketchup. I remember my eyes widening and my heart dropping in fear, and I feel it presently, too.
I’ve seen him plenty of times since that day, but haven’t made such intense eye contact since that time he yelled at me, so that’s the scene I picture him in. That short clip is all I see, and then I come back to reality.


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## ai.tran.75

ISTJ_1x2 said:


> I’m always overthinking things and my brain is constantly running, but I think it would be interesting to talk more about creativity and senses I feel when I’m thinking.
> 
> *There's this creepy thing I do* when I’m tuned out of "real life" and have nothing else urgent to do or think about. This is my introverted sensing talking here:
> If I try to picture a specific person's face, I see them the last time I made real, meaningful eye contact with them. I don’t see whatever’s in front of me, I see this moving picture (complete with background) of them instead. And, it's like I can physically hear a snippet of whatever they were saying, and whatever the background noise was like. If there was a noticeable smell, whether their cologne or something else important to that situation, it comes back to me too. I’m overwhelmed by the same feeling I felt when it happened in real life too, whether it was tension, fear, happiness, etc. I can physically feel my heart get lighter when I picture my sister.
> 
> An good example would be if I picture my uncle. The whole scene is focused on him, the background is a little out of focus but I can totally tell we’re in his basement before it was renovated. He was wearing an orange shirt. Everything suddenly goes quiet and his voice gets louder and louder until he’s full-out yelling at me. I can hear the white noise of my relatives talking in the background. I can smell bacon grease and ketchup. I remember my eyes widening and my heart dropping in fear, and I feel it presently, too.
> I’ve seen him plenty of times since that day, but haven’t made such intense eye contact since that time he yelled at me, so that’s the scene I picture him in. That short clip is all I see, and then I come back to reality.


Wow - that's really interesting what you described . How you recall images and voice. 
And catch up on sense and emotions, deriving from within . Thanks for sharing. 

Out of curiosity is your thoughts more visual or verbal ? 


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## Librarian

*How vivid is your imagination?*
Full of detail, little things appear when it makes sense, things will semi automatically disappear if they make no sense. In no time at all, details just "support" each other, no contradictions. 

The overall picture is just... there. I don't consciously suspend it my mind, it just exists the moment I begin imagining whatever I'm imagining so the intricate pieces can fall into place. I think my mental images are more "interesting " the more time or more magnified lens in which you view it; almost boring if you only take a glance.

Unnecessary Details may be added later, they still work with the other things but don't necessarily add anything new by virtue of being there. 

*What senses can you feel or use when thinking about something ?*
I don't really feel senses when I imagine things, I'm too focused on the visualization process. I often recall times I felt something strongly, but even then it focuses more on that whole "event/ memory " then the sensation it happened to cause. I don't use any senses to think about something, I will turn to my internal knowledge I possess though. If I use senses, its more a natural subconscious thing.

*Is it more visual /verbal/audio ?*
It's sort of like having mental bookshelves, and accessing something you put there previously like pulling out a book, reading, or more like skimming, since you don't really have to reread your already acquired info, you just need the reminder to put it all back in your current state of mind. 

I guess its "verbal" when the acquired knowledge came from a person you know fairly well. (this can, for example, include writers whose literal voice I may not know, but their traits have built up strongly to hear them "speak" through their printed word. 

It's "visual" for pictures, literal or mental. This is the most common sense style for me, but I think it really depends on the person.

Little for audio, I'd say.

*Do multiple thoughts play out at once or are you more singular focus*
Singular; its hard to perfect all the intricate pieces otherwise, and why do anything halfway when you can do it right? (right being subjective, I realize.) 

Multiple thought "sessions " do happen at DESIGNATED times just to get all the ideas swirling in my head out in the open. Imagine the bookshelf metaphor again with the many loaded bookshelves, now picture a whiteboard hanging on the wall. That designated spot is where I quickly write/draw all my ideas, no matter how odd and as I go through books I'll glance at that board for reference. The writing isn't especially neat, stark contrast to everything else in the room, but this is because these ideas are merely a starting point that mean nothing once I've used them and finished. 

I then erase that board for later use. 

*When conversing with somebody - what thoughts cross your mind- do you have any thoughts at all?*
In the good conversations, I consider what details and side notes I currently have will be usable for the discussion (most people dislike if I overload them.) I take in everything they say and often connect to something I already know, which may or may not be of practical use, and consider the intricacies of what they're _actually_ saying so we can get to the heart of the matter, people so often mean much more than what the basic words say and a few details they let out often leads me there. 

I also take in my surroundings at all times without losing focus on the speaker- unless...

It's a bad, pointless discussion. Then my mind will slowly focus on everything but them. My eyes stay on them, but the once dull, everyday background suddenly fascinates me, and I wonder what the people behind speaker are doing, saying, thinking. Probably something with more interest than this person. I start to rewind the conversation; _how on earth did this start? Its my fault, isn't it? I knew it would go nowhere, what did I do that conveyed to this person I thought otherwise? Why are they telling ME this, I have nothing genuine to offer them on this topic! I really must not reference stuff I "already know" as if I'm an expert on all the things I know a FEW things about, its unfair to confuse them. Man, I hope they talk to someone who DOES have something of value to offer them, they really seem in need of it, and not assume my pointless nodding qualifies as advice. 

Seriously, stop talking, I'm an idiot who CANNOT help you in this regard, literally anyone else is more capable of responding.
_

Ahem. Anyways, that's a basic overview of my imagination and way of thinking.

Extra image for Bookshelves Metaphor, except there are waaaaaaaaaay more books. Emphasis on the WAY. And MORE.
And the whiteboard is easier to see. But overall, This:


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## jcal

ai.tran.75 said:


> @*jcal*
> Hmm I don't think I can recall touch or sensation as well either but auditory would top my list- I can recall voices , music quite vividly- do you have conversations in your mind- or do you narrate your thoughts? If so is it used in your own voice


The "conversations" in my mind mostly occur in that "rehearsal" phase before I actually speak. It's hard to describe but while the words are "heard" as words, it's not like they are heard in anybody's voice in particular, including my own. It's more like listening to somebody whisper, where most of the character of the voice is lost since the vocal chords are not engaged.

The rest of my thought process is more visual than anything... solving problems by assembling "building blocks" in various configurations until a working configuration is found. Rarely are words involved in this process. 



> You mention smell and taste as your 1, how would you describe the taste of raspberry or smell of baked apple pies- along that line


I'm actually awful at verbalizing these things. For me, its mostly about being able to recreate the sensation internally to use as a comparative tool against another similar object. The focus is not so much on the full set of characteristics of the two objects, but more about what the specific differences are. Even then, the characteristics of the objects as I perceive them are NOT very simple, and the differences I perceive are not so simple as "well, this one is red and that is blue"... there's a very complex and often subtle "texture" that these sensory perceptions have. I can quite easily and accurately detect very subtle differences in that texture, but explaining them verbally is not always so easy.



> How does memory work for you, like if you were to go look for something you misplaced or trying to remember a conversation


In that type of situation, if I reach for something more or less automatically and it's not there, without really thinking about it I tend to have an image of the item in a specific spot pop up in my head. I would say this is correct about 75% of the time. When that initial image is incorrect, first I mentally retrace my steps, which often will create another "image" when I hit a certain point... after that I would physically retrace my steps. 




> Whats your earliest memory ?


I know that most of my earliest memories were from around age 3-4, because we moved away from that home just before I turned 5 and most of those earliest memories were generated in that home and surrounding environs. I probably can't put them in specific chronological order, but a few of them include:

On a very cold day, getting my tongue stuck on a cold metal pole 
Sitting on my grandfather's lap and steering his car (dark green '53 Oldsmobile, grey flannel interior, wire curb feelers... I can still vividly remember the sound of the engine) 
Opening Christmas presents under the tree in THAT house. 
Walking up and down "The Avenue" (shopping district) in that city with my mother, aunt and cousins. I loved hot dogs, especially from the sidewalk vendor on the avenue. My cousin hated them but loved bread. So we always split a hot dog... I got the meat and she got the bread, lol. I also recall the black diesel exhaust from the brown city buses running up and down the avenue. 
Finding a wrapped condom in my father's nightstand... of course, I had no idea what it was at the time, but I retained the image and feel through the foil wrapper. One day in my teens I had that image pop into my head... "THAT'S WHAT THAT WAS, LOL". 
"Helping" my grandfather paint windows in his shop that he was about to bring to a job site (he was a carpenter). 
Swimming in the swimming pool my grandfather built to help my father recover from polio when he was about the same age. 
Riding my pedal car up and down the driveway all day... and then being scared when my uncle pulled into the driveway with his truck. 
Picking and eating the cherries, grapes and figs that were growing around the house. 

I can go on but nobody will really care... Suffice it to say that my memories from that time are just about as clear as any other memories I carry. Another thing that stood out to me as I typed those was that, in the situations that had emotional content... like being scared when my tongue was stuck to the pipe or when I thought I might get run over by my uncle's truck in my pedal car... I can remember that I was scared but those feelings are not part of the vivid detail I recall. It's just an incidental fact I recall... I cannot "vividly relive" how it actually felt in the same way I can recall the sensory details.


----------



## ISTJ_1x2

ai.tran.75 said:


> Out of curiosity are your thoughts more visual or verbal?


My thoughts are very visual. They’re not visual only when I’m thinking of something that will involve sight later on. Whenever I’m coming up with a new idea or theory about something, I picture myself explaining it to someone. My best ideas come from imagining a conversation with someone else, where the things they say prompt me to look at my idea from different angles and come to a better solution.


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## ISTJ_1x2

@Librarian
Reading your post was the most interesting thing I’ve done all day! (Although it _is_ only 8:30 in the morning.) I totally agree with everything you said, which, whether you meant it to be or not, was representing an ISTJ's brain! You explained everything perfectly, and it gave me something to hold my brain up to and think, "do I do that?" It prompted lots of self-exploration in me... great post!


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## Librarian

@jcal your family sounds great, especially your grandpa! He built a pool? Sounds like quite the industrious carpenter! And he sounds very kind, building something just for your dad to heal like that. How did you "help" him with painting, if I may ask? When I was young I too "helped" my Grandpa... by telling him stories or reading my storybooks (pretty simple ones, since I was just starting out, so I had to embellish here and there) to him as he worked! 

I'm such a helpful granddaughter, I'll have everyone know, those stories REALLY inspired him as he fixed the house electricity. :wink:


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## Coburn

ai.tran.75 said:


> @Coburn
> Thanks for your reply - I'm always most intrigued by them
> 
> I guess I meant when thinking or recalling memories ( or imagination) can you use senses such as visual- verbal-touch- tastes- smell etc could be thinking about past present and future


Recalling past: verbal and visual. I've had a few rare moments where the recall of a past experience was so strong I forgot it was a past event and relived it in the moment as if it were the present (completely forgot where I was). Snapping out of it to come back to reality was/is very disorienting. 



> I meant how you vocalize your thought internally or what sense you recall when retracing a memory
> For example- what thought comes out to play when I ask you to think of autumn or can you remember what a person look like through your thoughts?


Feel-sense comes first. Feel-sense means the feeling tied to a given object/visual/experience. I remember first what I felt about something and how I was positioned in relation to that feeling (was it distant, was it close, was it warm or cold, was it wanted or unwanted). Think of it in a spatial sense, the way you might think about where you are in relation to your computer or phone. 

Then there's my reaction to the feeling. The feeling created by the object/visual/experience is separate from me, so it doesn't determine my personal response to the object.

Then there are a few vivid visual details. 

Then there's a broader image painted by feel-sense. If I recall someone's face, it's because I recall the feeling the face gave, not the face itself. So I can remember a face or details about a place by the feelings it evokes. Not the actual details in and of themselves. 

Most recall after that is more abstract; it's not time-bound. 



> For example - my thoughts are mainly conversational, but I'll have light images of movie like scene playing- along with thoughts of introspection running all at once
> It's easy for me to recall voice , sound or taste


I can't really recall taste. I can recall the way I felt about a taste. For example, a couple weeks back I had some terrible, terrible Irish whiskey. I couldn't even begin to tell you the taste. I can only recall the feeling the taste created. That's what creates the "terrible" description. 

My internal thoughts are just a general monologue (dialogue?) in my head. Although sometimes it's a dialogue with people I know; there have been times where the other person's "voice" in my head is so authentic I forget it was an internal conversation and believe it was an actual conversation that occurred between me and the friend. 

Feel-sense usually helps me double check that before I open my mouth and accidentally refer to a conversation I never had. 

I guess there are maybe also times where I'm not talking in my head and instead I'm just feeling. I just pick up the feeling and try it on like clothes. Then see what ideas or thoughts come to me while wearing it. 



> With image and touch I need to use more concentration, even so the image is abstract and not clear in my mind . My mind never stops - unless I'm extremely intrigue in writing , reading or watching a movie- if that's the case then I'll usually enter the story within itself and have light visual memory of it
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


It's very hard for me to step out of my own self-awareness. "Losing myself" is not something I pursue or enjoy. It only happens in rare instances.

Does any of this answer your questions? I feel I may have gone a bit off the rails.


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## ai.tran.75

Coburn said:


> Does any of this answer your questions? I feel I may have gone a bit off the rails.


 Thanks for answering . 
No you didn't go off track - I enjoyed reading through your answers quite much. It's very informative and captivating 
I'm most intrigued with how you recall the past- do you remember your earliest memory ? 


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## Siriusly McGonagall

ai.tran.75 said:


> How vivid are your imagination?
> what senses can you feel or use when thinking about something ?
> Is it more visual /verbal/audio ?
> Do multiple thoughts play out at once or are you more singular focus
> When conversing with somebody - what thoughts crosses your mind- do you have any thoughts at all



I am ESTJ big TE person. I tend to be very behavior and situational focus. I am in a creative writing course or was/is. I am finishing revising my work currently. anyway. I tend to recall what people act like first, behaviors and words and what they act or are like. When I recall my dead friend I recalled what she did and said first. I am also blind so audio is a big one. I remember voices well. This is after generally what was the situation like? that person was being a jerk to that other person, and said such and such things. I think the so do you remember who I am by my voice generally works for me, not always for all blind people, but because I can remember voices probably now I think of it used third in my list it generally works well for me if I have spoken to you more than a few times. I think for me particular phrasing works for me better than voice in terms of recall. I think that it can be vivid sometimes but my writing more generally is more dry and journalistic because I am so behavioral and action based. I specialize in telling instead of showing, which is not great for creative writing. Visual comes after auditory, but that's from more so walking through the room and having a concept of how it is laid out generally.

Probably more singular focus in a scene but I can also be about multiple scenes. When I write though or recall I focus on people or a person or a particular train of events in a room. The critique I got for my story was how about the rest of the room? I feel like I have a floating head syndrome like we don't understand how this person is connected within a setting. Are they still in the setting? and it's like yes they are. I also have two stories going in a single story and merging, as in two characters and how one is mentoring the other. We get some of the mentor's perspective too.

When I am talking to someone, usually I am thinking about what I need to say to them or how to respond. Some recall of past behaviors and comparing it too. Some logical comparing, is it normal. Have they done any better and such.. Is the things they say adding up? stuff like that.


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## ai.tran.75

Siriusly McGonagall said:


> I am ESTJ big TE person. I tend to be very behavior and situational focus. I am in a creative writing course or was/is. I am finishing revising my work currently. anyway. I tend to recall what people act like first, behaviors and words and what they act or are like. When I recall my dead friend I recalled what she did and said first. I am also blind so audio is a big one. I remember voices well. This is after generally what was the situation like? that person was being a jerk to that other person, and said such and such things. I think the so do you remember who I am by my voice generally works for me, not always for all blind people, but because I can remember voices probably now I think of it used third in my list it generally works well for me if I have spoken to you more than a few times. I think for me particular phrasing works for me better than voice in terms of recall. I think that it can be vivid sometimes but my writing more generally is more dry and journalistic because I am so behavioral and action based. I specialize in telling instead of showing, which is not great for creative writing. Visual comes after auditory, but that's from more so walking through the room and having a concept of how it is laid out generally.
> 
> Probably more singular focus in a scene but I can also be about multiple scenes. When I write though or recall I focus on people or a person or a particular train of events in a room. The critique I got for my story was how about the rest of the room? I feel like I have a floating head syndrome like we don't understand how this person is connected within a setting. Are they still in the setting? and it's like yes they are. I also have two stories going in a single story and merging, as in two characters and how one is mentoring the other. We get some of the mentor's perspective too.
> 
> When I am talking to someone, usually I am thinking about what I need to say to them or how to respond. Some recall of past behaviors and comparing it too. Some logical comparing, is it normal. Have they done any better and such.. Is the things they say adding up? stuff like that.


Thanks for sharing 
What do you mean by being blind ? Did you lose your vision or are you blind in thoughts?

Do you hear your own voice when narrating thoughts? 

☆ I can relate to your multiple thought process- like I have one main thought going through my mind but multiple thoughts running in the background 

How do you recall memory ? And do you day dream? 

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## Siriusly McGonagall

ai.tran.75 said:


> Thanks for sharing
> What do you mean by being blind ? Did you lose your vision or are you blind in thoughts?
> 
> Do you hear your own voice when narrating thoughts?
> 
> ☆ I can relate to your multiple thought process- like I have one main thought going through my mind but multiple thoughts running in the background
> 
> How do you recall memory ? And do you day dream?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I can't physically see blind. I was born not seeing too much of anything.


Yes, my own voice narrating thoughts or what I am going to say to others.

Rarely do I daydream and if I do it's more about how things should be rather then just me being in a fantasy world. or I use them to depict how things should be.

Like I said I usually remember voices or behaviors or phrases that people say. Situational stuff too but it's more through that kind of thing.

does that answer your memory question? Am I missing something?


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## ai.tran.75

Siriusly McGonagall said:


> I can't physically see blind. I was born not seeing too much of anything.
> 
> 
> Yes, my own voice narrating thoughts or what I am going to say to others.
> 
> Rarely do I daydream and if I do it's more about how things should be rather then just me being in a fantasy world. or I use them to depict how things should be.
> 
> Like I said I usually remember voices or behaviors or phrases that people say. Situational stuff too but it's more through that kind of thing.
> 
> does that answer your memory question? Am I missing something?



No you're not missing anything- I just find estj mind very intriguing( I am an enfp) so your thought process is very different from mine yet somehow vaguely familiar. It's unexpected. 
Are you able to remember sense of touch ? Or music ( I have light music playing in the back of my mind sometimes- not actual music but faint melody and sometimes I'll catch myself humming while analyzing my thought process) 
What senses do you use while dreaming? 

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## Siriusly McGonagall

ai.tran.75 said:


> No you're not missing anything- I just find estj mind very intriguing( I am an enfp) so your thought process is very different from mine yet somehow vaguely familiar. It's unexpected.
> Are you able to remember sense of touch ? Or music ( I have light music playing in the back of my mind sometimes- not actual music but faint melody and sometimes I'll catch myself humming while analyzing my thought process)
> What senses do you use while dreaming?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Mostly it's realistic so usually behavioral stuff but auditory and touch. Yeah, I think touch and taste and stuff like that is last to be recalled. but they can be.

No, I remember lyrics better than melody and at that not unless I really want to recall them. I am usually not a lyrics quoter either unless I specifically go look them up.


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## Coburn

ai.tran.75 said:


> Thanks for answering .
> No you didn't go off track - I enjoyed reading through your answers quite much. It's very informative and captivating
> I'm most intrigued with how you recall the past- do you remember your earliest memory ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


What aspects are you intrigued by that I can elaborate on?

And why the earliest memory? I ask because that's a very specific request (and it may take some time for me to figure out which was actually the earliest).


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## confusedasheck

I have been suspecting that I might be an ISFJ.

I am very visual. I actually believe it might be the reason for why I suck at writing down my
plan for anything. I tend to imagine the complete image, then I would visualize my pathway to
there.
It’s kind of like, I am a director of a play. I am directing the play based on my vision and then
I slowly walk on smaller issues and the vision slowly becomes much more defined as I continue to
Think about it. However the downside is that I get bored rather quickly.

another way I get better images is by talking. If I ramble to someone, the more ideas I accumulate
Until I reach a final or single idea. The ideas come out of no where, they are more of random connections.


Right now, I am actually in a poetry class. The first assignment was to create a poetry based on my five
Senses and what the heck... it’s the most difficult thing to do?? So I am supposed to create a poetry that resembles
Where I am from and how I visualize the place through my five senses. I’m struggling because I don’t experience
Or symbolize everything through my five senses. Don’t even get me started on nostalgia.... the poetry is
Required to have a bit of nostalgia and I barely remember or it’s just plain negative. *cries*

Corburn brought up an interesting point on how he has open possibilities when he converses with people.
I am the same way, but I slowly break it down to a singular answer. Most of the time it’s right, but other times
It’s wrong. However, I think this occurs mostly when I converse with people. When it comes to like
math and other stuff I become dumbfounded. I guess that’s why I kind of slid towards psychology.

________

I also find ESTJ(s) very interesting. IMO, they’re one of the most under-appreciated types.


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## Coburn

@confusedasheck

My poem:

Drip

Drip

Drip

Sniffle

Drip.


(My poetry teachers never liked me.)

Good luck with your assignment.


EDIT:

Touching on your post: so far as I'm aware, talking out loud to think things through is a sign of being extraverted. 

And similar to you, if I'm interested in reaching a confirming an idea or conclusion from what someone says, I will begin to apply Te and Si to my possibilities until my theory has been proved or disproved.

But this only happens if I want to get to a certain point in the conversation.


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## ai.tran.75

Coburn said:


> What aspects are you intrigued by that I can elaborate on?
> 
> And why the earliest memory? I ask because that's a very specific request (and it may take some time for me to figure out which was actually the earliest).


You quoted
"Recalling past: verbal and visual. I've had a few rare moments where the recall of a past experience was so strong I forgot it was a past event and relived it in the moment as if it were the present (completely forgot where I was). Snapping out of it to come back to reality was/is very disorienting. " 

I wonder if you could give me an example 

Ok perhaps not the earliest memory but one of your earlier memories - or the first time you recall experiencing something 


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## Siriusly McGonagall

confusedasheck said:


> I have been suspecting that I might be an ISFJ.
> 
> I am very visual. I actually believe it might be the reason for why I suck at writing down my
> plan for anything. I tend to imagine the complete image, then I would visualize my pathway to
> there.
> It’s kind of like, I am a director of a play. I am directing the play based on my vision and then
> I slowly walk on smaller issues and the vision slowly becomes much more defined as I continue to
> Think about it. However the downside is that I get bored rather quickly.
> 
> another way I get better images is by talking. If I ramble to someone, the more ideas I accumulate
> Until I reach a final or single idea. The ideas come out of no where, they are more of random connections.
> 
> 
> Right now, I am actually in a poetry class. The first assignment was to create a poetry based on my five
> Senses and what the heck... it’s the most difficult thing to do?? So I am supposed to create a poetry that resembles
> Where I am from and how I visualize the place through my five senses. I’m struggling because I don’t experience
> Or symbolize everything through my five senses. Don’t even get me started on nostalgia.... the poetry is
> Required to have a bit of nostalgia and I barely remember or it’s just plain negative. *cries*
> 
> Corburn brought up an interesting point on how he has open possibilities when he converses with people.
> I am the same way, but I slowly break it down to a singular answer. Most of the time it’s right, but other times
> It’s wrong. However, I think this occurs mostly when I converse with people. When it comes to like
> math and other stuff I become dumbfounded. I guess that’s why I kind of slid towards psychology.
> 
> ________
> 
> I also find ESTJ(s) very interesting. IMO, they’re one of the most under-appreciated types.


I do that with my stories too, a scene plays out in my head and I try to write it down. I tend to focus on certain aspect of the movie thing playing in my head. that's how I write fanfictions. I have to focus and force the scenes to come sort of focus on the book and characters and stuff like that.

Don't tell me to write Poetry either. I will write this prose like poem for you and it's like yeah, I think this is a story not a poem? It's just broken at lines. Not very poetic or lyrical.

I do the same as colburn myself when investigating issues.


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## confusedasheck

Coburn said:


> @confusedasheck
> 
> My poem:
> 
> Drip
> 
> Drip
> 
> Drip
> 
> Sniffle
> 
> Drip.
> 
> 
> (My poetry teachers never liked me.)
> 
> Good luck with your assignment.
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Touching on your post: so far as I'm aware, talking out loud to think things through is a sign of being extroverted.
> 
> And similar to you, if I'm interested in reaching a confirming an idea or conclusion from what someone says, I will begin to apply Te and Si to my possibilities until my theory has been proved or disproved.
> 
> But this only happens if I want to get to a certain point in the conversation.



Is it actually a sign of extroversion? How so?


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## Siriusly McGonagall

confusedasheck said:


> Is it actually a sign of extroversion? How so?


yes. ISXJ - SI fe/Te read the manual do research. look up resources.

ESXJ Fe/te then SI I usually just do it try to ask someone plan at how I can figure it out, start looking around at menus, start working the device. If it's a problem talk to someone. Sometimes asking for feedback. I usually do.

did you say you were ISFJ? have you considered ESFJ? My dad talks a lot, is usually pretty animating and funny. Seriousness isn't really his thing. This guy who's single says he can be flirty. like the FE type. Likes the managing aspect of things. My dad when he did not walk out of jobs was actually a high ranking manager. He was actually a pretty good one, kept everyone happy, even his bosses. Every boss he's had that was good and wanted the company to grow wanted my father. He gets along and jokes with everyone in the surrounding area if he can, if he had time. He loves guests, and invites friends over when they are overseas or from a long ways away. Our house tends to be the place to crash. There was an article that says ESFJ wears there emotions on their sleeves. that he does. he's very in to it. usually tries to keep everyone happy and his environment to be the best mood wise.

I know a bunch of ISfJ usually different. Mom and another friend would either prefer to watch videos or read books. My mother doesn't read as much but loves soap operas especially korean ones. She watches everything on the internet. My friend reads a lot of fantasy and other fiction books. Usually doesn't talk to people. He does a bit because some ISFJ need a bit of socialization but not too much. usually small groups of friends. My friend goes on this site and talks a little bit answers a few posts and does a phone chat thing with mailboxes but I don't think he says much. He rather join book clubs where they read books or mainly focus on playing bingo. He's usually in the background. Both are very submissive. My mother agrees with most things my father says goes. I usually gets her to do stuff even if she's not happy. ISFJS are more likely to agree with you to keep the peace and then be unhappy about it. Sometimes they'd say stuff later or contradict their agreement. My mother wants credit but isn't usually proud or flaunts her work or efforts. My friend is similar. My friend is good at self blame almost to an extreme. OH it's my fault, I am sorry. I offended you. It's like Stop it, no you didn't. My mother and my friend who is ISfJ thinks before they talk, my father, not so much. He'll say the wrong thing and then it's like oh I didn't mean that or that's not what I said. hahahaha! I turn to mum, you heard him say x right? yes. It's the SI that is making one think. ISTJs do the same. I think their words and actions are a bit more researched then ESTJs in terms of SI style. Also ISFJ I don't think should be bosses, they don't make bad ones but ESFJs do it better. My mother doesn't want the charge nurse position. she's a nurse and you could be a team leader/charge nurse for good and every time you work you're in charge of the nurses that day and the entire unit. My Mum won't do it, she's a back up charge nurse but I think she prefers not to do it. She's okay at it though, use to be in charge but she could lead or follow. My Father the ESFJ he kind of micro manages tells people what to do even if he isn't in charge.

Do you get told to slow down or calm down or mellow out or to do the opposite? to open up more or to speed it up?


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## Retsu

ai.tran.75 said:


> @*Retsu* @*Pinina* @*Coburn* @*Wisteria* @*Librarian* if you have the time ... I'm really curious about your thought processes
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Sure.

How vivid are your imagination?
Like I'm reliving it if the memory is recent. Otherwise it's high quality video.

what senses can you feel or use when thinking about something ?
All of them - I recall smells pretty well to my surprise.

Is it more visual /verbal/audio ?
Mainly visual and audio.

Do multiple thoughts play out at once or are you more singular focus 
Fast chain of thoughts when I'm not on meds. Random interrupts like I wonder if spiders have feelings or something equally stupid, so I have to Google it to get thoughts out of my mind until I can sleep. Otherwise my mind races too much, unless I listen to a podcast to sleep to bring it all back.

When conversing with somebody - what thoughts crosses your mind- do you have any thoughts at all
I try not to, but thoughts do intrude. Mainly thoughts I don't want like I wonder what they'd be like as a romantic partner or whatever, even though I've never been happier in my relationship.


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## grumpytiger

Alesha said:


> @ai.tran.75 That's a great way to describe the "abstract" memory or visualization. It's what I was trying to think of. I also get like a second or two of a more complete picture--- not the whole picture though, and then sometimes I'll get some detail but not anything else, everything else will be lines and some colors. Like if I'm thinking about this new avatar of mine. I get the red color (the raspberry color! lol ) and I get an outline of her face in a flash and often I get a highlight of light to give the impression of the sunshine if there is some. Going back to the raspberry. I can picture the raspberry for a few seconds and then my mind "holds" the idea of the color, the dust on it (that's the detail I envisioned actually from @Northern Lights description), the sunshine by way of light highlights, the green behind. I can keep getting flashes of the entire raspberry when I tell my mind to keep returning, but my mind doesn't want to "hold' it for more than a few seconds. Hmm... is it like that for you, kind of?


Wow that's weird to me.  I just see the raspberry in one with all its details.


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## Llyralen

grumpytiger said:


> Wow that's weird to me.  I just see the raspberry in one with all its details.


These comparisons are so interesting, aren't they? You should read the NF thread "How do you think?" , but I think what @ai.tran.75 found out was that Ne and Ni think very differently. ENTPs and ENFPs (and also INFPs, INTPs) reported having multiple layers of thought going on at once. Ni we are all still trying to figure out (including Ni doms who have a hard time describing it except to say it seems to almost work like symbols-- I would guess like trying to understand something all at once. The dream comparison between the 4 threads was really interesting too. 
But yes, even if I tell myself to "take a picture" and I try to memorize the way something looks, my brain will make it into basically an abstract painting. I can focus on a few details or even move to a different few details and the rest blurs into impressions. 
Ai could remember tastes better than me. 
Ne Fi's do often hear music almost like it's the radio, though, from memory. And I do hear music pretty much constantly as one of the tracks or layers of thought going on in my mind. 
Ai summarized her findings somewhere..... Ai?


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## ai.tran.75

Alesha said:


> These comparisons are so interesting, aren't they? You should read the NF thread "How do you think?" , but I think what @ai.tran.75 found out was that Ne and Ni think very differently. ENTPs and ENFPs (and also INFPs, INTPs) reported having multiple layers of thought going on at once. Ni we are all still trying to figure out (including Ni doms who have a hard time describing it except to say it seems to almost work like symbols-- I would guess like trying to understand something all at once. The dream comparison between the 4 threads was really interesting too.
> But yes, even if I tell myself to "take a picture" and I try to memorize the way something looks, my brain will make it into basically an abstract painting. I can focus on a few details or even move to a different few details and the rest blurs into impressions.
> Ai could remember tastes better than me.
> Ne Fi's do often hear music almost like it's the radio, though, from memory. And I do hear music pretty much constantly as one of the tracks or layers of thought going on in my mind.
> Ai summarized her findings somewhere..... Ai?


Great explanation there - yes strong Ne ( inxp included) have multiple train of thoughts running at once and its quite norm to us- Fi-ne/ne-fi this one you found out - have music playing in their mind( music is always playing in my mind along with conversation abstract thoughts etc ) 
I also discovered that Ne thoughts are more verbal /conversational where as Se is more visual /sensory 

Now Si dom/aux is my favorite to read about- their thinking is super detail oriented yet organized - i believe istj brain wires like a computer hard drive- they collect all their thoughts- categorize it into section and they're mainly singular focus- multiple thoughts usually indicate sign of corruption 
They have strong memories of the past and their train of thoughts can lead them to traveling back in time ( it feels very real to them ) i notice infp( the ones with stronger Si) also mention this ability

Se are more visual within thoughts( however if the Ti /fi is strong then they do think verbally) just the moment multiple thoughts occur is when they get anxious or anxiety. They recollect visual image quite accurately along with recalling all their senses 

Ni is hard catergorize because their thoughts are more symbol related and some have multiple thoughts and are not bothered by it - whereas others are singular focus. It was easier to catergorize them in dreams( thats a different thread) 

Fe dom - like Ne also have multiple train of thoughts just its not all conversational ( that would distract them ) - its a mixture of visual daily thoughts and conversations with friends and channelling emotions ( multiple at once) 




Course these are all categorization but its what im able to collect so far 

Im guessing Ne user - use more of the Broca area when thinking 

I think Se user use more of their temporal lobe (the hippocampus)

- Si user seems more active in the amygdala 


Im still researching  

How have you been? New question - how do you recall emotions 







Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## grumpytiger

@ai.tran.75 @Alesha

Ohh interesting stuff!!

I can add some comments as datapoints for all this research of yours 

This thing about multiple thoughts indicating sign of corruption. Hahaha, yeah, something like that. :laughing:

I do tend to see my brain as working like a computer, heh.

I don't always recall memories of the past but I know that when, as a kid, I decided on maintaining my autobiographical memory, it was because I was shocked at how I could recall a certain memory from age 4 or so (at age 8), as if it happened the day before. :laughing:

Otherwise they don't tend to be very vivid, just as I experienced them originally, which is mostly clinical. Vividness would require more emotion added, I think.

All in all, I'm not very visual or verbal in my mind.





> Fe dom - like Ne also have multiple train of thoughts just its not all conversational ( that would distract them ) - its a mixture of visual daily thoughts and conversations with friends and channelling emotions ( multiple at once)


What do you mean by channelling emotions if I can ask?




> Im guessing Ne user - use more of the Broca area when thinking
> 
> I think Se user use more of their temporal lobe (the hippocampus)
> 
> - Si user seems more active in the amygdala


I think I'm hippocampus based with my navigation skills. I see my environment in a very spatial way, and the hippocampus is what's responsible for that. And my memories also have that spatial organization except sometimes when it comes to recalling some people interactions.





> How have you been? New question - how do you recall emotions


I don't usually get to feel them when I recall them. I just recall how I sensed them. I actually can tune into my memories hard and then I can pull out the emotions (or feelings) that I did not consciously focus on when the experience the memory is about was originally occurring. And then I can really tune into how the sensation looks like. This isn't visual, and it isn't directly about body locations. It's more like a holistic sensation of the emotion. And it has lots of details at the same time just like when I look at the raspberry I guess, except it's a bit more vague, because it's not an actual object in front of me. However, I see all the details enough so that I can compare two emotions or feelings and see if they are the exact same or not. I detect how similar they are, to what degree they are similar. I can break down things (objects, situations) that way in general... Comparing the details and deciding on what the important similarities are and categorize them.

Does this make sense? Guess I was just describing Si as it operates on sensing emotions? : p


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## knitsix

Singular thought, primarily visual with not many other senses. Backed up by the inner voice when more mental work is done.


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## Suntide

ai.tran.75 said:


> How vivid are your imagination?


Visually, it's a full image but a little fuzzy/grainy unless I'm specifically focusing on a certain detail. It's hard for me to imagine things I haven't seen before. I can't visualize a lot of crisp details at once. Some of them will get fuzzy.



> what senses can you feel or use when thinking about something ?





> Is it more visual /verbal/audio ?


I can use any, but it's usually just visual and auditory unless I am thinking specifically about how something feels/tastes/smells.



> Do multiple thoughts play out at once or are you more singular focus


It depends. I hyperfocus sometimes, and other times my mind is racing so fast that I think over my own thoughts. For the most part, on an average day at an average time, I think completely linear thoughts, as if I were having a conversation with myself out loud.



> When conversing with somebody - what thoughts crosses your mind- do you have any thoughts at all


Yes, I'm always talking to myself in the background while talking to them. For example, while someone is telling me a story, I might be thinking to myself while listening to them, "Oh god, this is so boring, I can't believe I'm stuck here listening to this" or "Omg this reminds me of something I've done, I have to tell them about it after they're done telling me their story!"


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## Llyralen

Threadbump @deafcrossfitter


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## deafcrossfitter

Llyralen said:


> Threadbump @deafcrossfitter


Hey! Just did it in the NF forums! Thanks for the bump.


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