# Do women hate beautiful sexy women?



## crystal19 (Feb 14, 2014)

Do you think some women hate on very attractive women simply because these women easily attract men? Even more so if the attractive woman has a sunny and engaging personality?


I can see how an unattractive or mediocre woman who does not have much charisma can hate a much sexier and prettier more dynamic woman.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jealousy.


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## moonlight_echo (May 15, 2011)

Do you even have to ask?
Average, less than average, and even pretty women can't compete with beautiful.

Although as a female attracted to other women my 'hate' is different, in that I know I can't have the attractive woman because she's probably straight (most women are after all).

I have to add that beautiful women sometimes annoy me though because they're privileged in life due to their looks yet unaware of the benefits of their own beauty. Either that or they're very much aware and use it to their advantage in a way that's detrimental to others.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Of course that happens OP, women can be their own worst enemies. I would hope that the "more beautiful" woman isn't just trying to one up their friends (that happens too). Pretty doesn't make someone immune to insecurity, especially if she has a hard time making friends no matter how nice she is.

I wish women would be more honest with each other. Sure it may be hard to feel empathy for an attractive woman, but I think if the "lesser attractive" (I really don't like using these descriptions bc they are subjective to the beholder) shows that she feels threatened...it looks worse on her. I have seen women break hearts because of their personalities and confidence. It saddens me that women can't be friends or have to result to being catty because they feel threatened. Being beautiful doesn't just mean you have to be a "10". I think women should focus on improving themselves (inside) instead of trying to bring someone else down.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

It doesn't help that society bombards women with messages telling them to put their looks before everything else and pitting them against each other.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Since a lot of girls think that they are ugly, they just call any girl who thinks she's beautiful ugly. It's tiresome and undesirable. I'm talking about my school.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

There's some kind of line that's crossed when a girl is so pretty, she doesn't act like competition anymore IME.

l've had a handful of friends much more attractive than me, maybe 3 being absolutely drop-*dead* gorgeous. Truly, and could have been models of some kind but were just normal educated people.

lt was like, they didn't know how to act and were actually incredibly nice. Not so much interested in being man eaters, that was reserved for 'hot' girls who may or not be as attractive but just have a different vibe.


l think it's shame people view it from that angle, but l guess l've happened to just know a lot of cool people who weren't concerned with these attitudes.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

I find this totally strange because:

Why are they hating? Why are they jealous?

If they are attracted to men, they would _easily_ find a man willing to sleep with them, regardless of how physically appealing they are to the mainstream, so what are they actually competing for?


It's the men who actually have to compete.. but we don't treat each other the way you see some women treating other women.


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## moonlight_echo (May 15, 2011)

emberfly said:


> It's the men who actually have to compete.. but we don't treat each other the way you see some women treating other women.


I disagree. Although female competition differs from male competition, it still exists. Why do you think women bother dressing up? Wearing makeup? Comparing themselves ruthlessly to other females?

And then there's social aggression which many females seem to have mastered. 



> If they are attracted to men, they would _easily_ find a man willing to sleep with them, regardless of how physically appealing they are to the mainstream, so what are they actually competing for?


A man might have sex with them, but that doesn't mean he'll love them. Women are competing for mates: someone willing to form a bond and raise children.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

crystal19 said:


> Do you think some women hate on very attractive women simply because these women easily attract men? Even more so if the attractive woman has a sunny and engaging personality?
> 
> 
> I can see how an unattractive or mediocre woman who does not have much charisma can hate a much sexier and prettier more dynamic woman.


While some of us may hate the system that values women based on surface-level considerations rather than considering women worthy or unworthy of respect, desire, love and attention based solely on character, I feel that judging pretty women negatively for no reason other than their appearance is not the best way to restore balance, as it only adds to the core problem of focusing on superficial measures of worth. 

It may be easy for a person in a disadvantaged position to blame the advantaged person for having privilege, but having unwanted privilege is not a moral defect or a valid reason to hate someone. In fact, pretty women may also suffer from looks-based discrimination. They may find that they are in higher demand by the types of partners who engage in sexual objectification, and having to deal with constant sexual attention from disrespectful perverts can be tiring or even threatening. A pretty woman who has more to offer than her body may become discouraged when none of her accomplishments have the power to alter her status more than some arbitrary aspect of her form that she has no control over and does not consider relevant. 

It is difficult to be respected regardless of one's body, and one is being treated unfairly whether one is accepted or rejected for how one looks. Neither position is enviable. 


I have felt jealous of people with engaging or charismatic personalities, but I have not hated them for it. I merely feel inspired by them, and work to develop my own social skills in a manner that remains true to my identity.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

moonlight_echo said:


> Why do you think women bother dressing up? Wearing makeup? Comparing themselves ruthlessly to other females?


To compete with other females, _but not for men._



> A man might have sex with them, but that doesn't mean he'll love them. Women are competing for mates: someone willing to form a bond and raise children.


This is hilariously flawed because physical beauty has _nothing_ to do with love, only lust.


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## onyxbrain (Mar 30, 2014)

I wouldn't limit it to beautiful, sexy women.

I am sure that we all know, or have known, a girl who may not have been gorgeous along the ranks of Angelina Jolie or (more modern & "hip") Alena Shishkova - not to say that this is the standard for both beautiful and sexy, this is for example sake, so please no ragging -
but, they were simply NOT ugly. 

Being NOT ugly, they usually either had something fantastic about them (non-facially) ie. great hair, nice skin, long eyelashes.
These girls always tend to be a bit better than average in every way, though I have never noted one being so "creatively". 

TO GET TO MY POINT, I find that girls who fall under this category to be much more hated by other women than gorgeous women are. 
I think that ridiculously good women are always seen as a almost inhuman (not always in a bad way, I'm drawing on this as a compliment). Women who are better than average, hit closer to home. Gorgeous women can make other women envious, but the hostility is more superficial in this case. Better-than-average women are more realistic "competition".

So, I will agree, that "beautiful, sexy women" do unsettle other women- but better-than-average women UPSET other women.


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## moonlight_echo (May 15, 2011)

emberfly said:


> To compete with other females, _but not for men._


It's to compete with other females yes, but ultimately they're competing for men whether aware of it or not. That goes against the idea that women are passive and innocent in the whole mating game.
They not only want men but men they see as high quality. Those types of men have many options.

And I want to say that this applies to hetero women of course, which not all women are.




> This is hilariously flawed because physical beauty has _nothing_ to do with love, only lust.


Maybe for some, but beauty draws attention. Lust can be mistaken for love...or actually lead to love. 
Also lust plays a significant role in romantic love for many people. Why else would men be so focused on beautiful women if it didn't matter?


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

moonlight_echo said:


> Maybe for some, but beauty draws attention. Lust can be mistaken for love...or actually lead to love.
> Also lust plays a significant role in romantic love for many people. Why else would men be so focused on beautiful women if it didn't matter?


So basically it's like you're tricking men into loving you.


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## StephMC (Jan 25, 2011)

There are people out there that will be bitter by anyone they feel threatened by. 

And I also think there are people that get a high off feeling like they threaten/intimidate others and may use it to their advantage.

I think it's a combination of those two types of people that feeds the "women hate beautiful women" stereotype.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

emberfly said:


> I find this totally strange because:
> 
> Why are they hating? Why are they jealous?
> 
> ...


True, but women still compete with each other, you have never seen it? I don't even think it has that much to do with men as much as it makes them feel better about themselves (temporarily). You really haven't seen it? I am in my 30s and still see it to this day. It doesn't have to be about looks.


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## moonlight_echo (May 15, 2011)

emberfly said:


> So basically it's like you're tricking men into loving you.


Men do the same thing by showing off resources. Many people fall in love for shallow reasons.

I'm not saying I like this, but it's what I've observed.


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## Euclid (Mar 20, 2014)

emberfly said:


> If they are attracted to men, they would _easily_ find a man willing to sleep with them, regardless of how physically appealing they are to the mainstream, so what are they actually competing for?


Women generally aren't trying to get into bed with men, but trying to find someone who isn't merely trying to get into bed with them.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I've found myself "envious" at times of other women who appear more beautiful than me, but I don't hate them nor wish ill upon them. They happened to get luckier than me in that area, it's not their fault, nor does it mean there's something wrong with me either. I have other strengths. Besides, in the end, physical beauty diminishes; it's the other qualities that remain.

So "hatred" is a rather stupid response, to me...rather a self-absorbed one.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

StephMC said:


> There are people out there that will be bitter by anyone they feel threatened by.
> 
> And I also think there are people that get a high off feeling like they threaten/intimidate others and may use it to their advantage.
> 
> I think it's a combination of those two types of people that feeds the "women hate beautiful women" stereotype.


I think a little bit of jealousy now and then is human nature. I think very few are truly immune for life from it. The woman doesn't even have to be that beautiful (was this thread started by a woman or man?) I think they oversimplified it.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

l think, that some women who happen to be beautiful fail to make realistic life plans and then you perhaps see the effect mentioned.

But it seems increasingly rare. lt's More difficult to 'hate' a woman who is better looking than you but also a self-sufficient normal person not interested in homewreckage.

lt all depends on your experience and especially the area you live in, but you aren't meeting too many younger girls and women today who's parents legitimately excused them from life duties or an education to live as 'hot girls' because they were just too good-looking


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## moonlight_echo (May 15, 2011)

MelanieM said:


> I think a little bit of jealousy now and then is human nature. I think very few are truly immune for life from it. The woman doesn't even have to be that beautiful (was this thread started by a woman or man?) I think they oversimplified it.


There's this idea that women should play nice and not be competitive. I think that's far more damaging than the fact that women do compete with each other.
Competition and jealousy are part of life's game whether people like it or not. 

It would be far better to teach females healthy ways of competing and dealing with jealousy.
That would also improve female friendships in my opinion.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Maybe we're sick of being considered less of a human being because we're not sexy? 

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

moonlight_echo said:


> There's this idea that women should play nice and not be competitive. I think that's far more damaging than the fact that women do compete with each other.
> Competition and jealousy are part of life's game whether people like it or not.
> 
> It would be far better to teach females healthy ways of competing and dealing with jealousy.
> That would also improve female friendships in my opinion.


Just because we are human and can be jealous doesn't mean it's right or productive. Lying could be considered human nature but should I teach my child how to lie more effectively? Jealousy does not improve any type of relationship. Someone mentioned before that instead of envying another woman, turn it into admiration which I think was very mature. Those were not her exact words but I think that is what she was getting at. Jealousy is more about feeling inadequate in some way. Maybe mimic some of the other woman's traits or get to know her, share advice.

I think jealousy is an ugly feeling, I don't like it...it doesn't make me a better person. There are ways to turn it around. Besides, no one is truly flawless, everyone has their own problems. Instead of hiding this, women should be able to feel like they can be open instead of pretending to feel something they don't. I'm too old for playing games, it makes me tired. I guess I will happily fail lol.


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## BABYMETAL (Apr 4, 2014)

No point in hating others for that. If you don't like the way you look, then don't compare yourself to anyone else. Deal with it.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Babymetal said:


> No point in hating others for that. If you don't like the way you look, then don't compare yourself to anyone else. Deal with it.


Ohh deal with it. Easy as that. Duh.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Maybe we're sick of being considered less of a human being because we're not sexy?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk


Not every man cares for sexy. It's usually 'go getters' who prefer sexy women, since they tempt and lure the 'go getter.' (oh dat pun) So no, you're not less human for not being sexy.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Merihim said:


> Not every man cares for sexy. It's usually 'go getters' who prefer sexy women, since they tempt and lure the 'go getter.' (oh dat pun) So no, you're not less human for not being sexy.


That's not how women are taught to feel. It's not stupid if we feel inadequate. We're made to feel inadequate for not looking like Kate Upton these days. That's too much pressure. We'll always lose. 

The answer is to stop putting so much pressure on us and expand the ideas of beauty imo. It's not just oversized tits spilling from a bikini blonde hair and blue eyes. Lots of forms of beauty are not appreciated. It's a shame.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Maybe we're sick of being considered less of a human being because we're not sexy?


(Using this as a springboard to say something - not responding to you specifically.)

I get irked at the idea that beauty is something static that some people "just have" and others "just don't." I mean, yes, if I'm being realistic, some people in Y range of looks are never going to look attractive in quite the same way as other people in X range of looks. From an evolutionary standpoint, we can't completely ignore it.

But beyond largely irrelevant statistics, it's ridiculous how we assume that looking plastic and unrealistic (airbrushed models and the like) is the standard for beauty. I mean, how many women do you know who could skip a shower, put on clothing that clashes with their skin, make no effort to straighten their hair or wash their face, wear no makeup, and still look like the "beautiful sexy privileged woman" stereotype?

Not to mention the fact that so many women - through no fault of their own, I should add - think themselves less attractive than they actually are because of the absurd standards of the beauty product industry. Point is, I seriously doubt that most people who are "beautiful and sexy" (in the way that causes jealousy) just woke up that way. 

And I'd be willing to bet that if we removed the airbrushed standards from human consciousness for a few years, we'd be a lot more appreciative of natural beauty.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Ohh deal with it. Easy as that. Duh.


Hey bitches I'm sexy...deal with it

(sorry I just immediately pictured someone saying that and laughed-think I am delirious)


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## BABYMETAL (Apr 4, 2014)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Ohh deal with it. Easy as that. Duh.


I mean it doesn't seem reasonable to hate someone because of their looks. Hate how society tells you what's beautiful or not. Don't hate the ones that are considered beautiful by those standards.


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## Mammon (Jul 12, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> That's not how women are taught to feel. It's not stupid if we feel inadequate. We're made to feel inadequate for not looking like Kate Upton these days. That's too much pressure. We'll always lose.
> 
> The answer is to stop putting so much pressure on us and expand the ideas of beauty imo. It's not just oversized tits spilling from a bikini blonde hair and blue eyes. Lots of forms of beauty are not appreciated. It's a shame.


Had to look her up. Truthfully? Meh, she's not an eye catcher to me... Like you said, it is not. She looks rather bland imho.

I've always been of the opinion the world would be a much more colorful and interesting place if people just leaved other people do their thing. And we're faaar from that, sadly.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Ohh deal with it. Easy as that. Duh.


I wish I could thank this twice.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

Babymetal said:


> I mean it doesn't seem reasonable to hate someone because of their looks. Hate how society tells you what's beautiful or not. Don't hate the ones that are considered beautiful by those standards.


Of course it's not reasonable, logical or helpful...but it happens. I am willing to bet everyone on this forum has been jealous of someone at some point in their life. I can't say I have felt hatred, but I didn't want to be around that person. I still logically knew it was my problem, but it didn't matter lol.


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## candiemerald (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm usually in awe of women I find extremely attractive - I don't hate them. That would be insane and immature. I might long to be as gorgeous as them at times, but generally I just like looking at their flawless beauty and enjoying the view. I don't understand the petty, catty jealously that causes one human being to hate another because of their looks. Seriously. How shallow can we get?

If this is a qualification one needs in order to be a woman, I guess I've failed the test.

As someone said earlier: deal with it. Stop whining about not having as much as that other person, and get a life. Stop playing into the traps that society and the media set for you, which tell you you have to look a certain way to even be worth anyone's notice, and just be you.


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## SweetPickles (Mar 19, 2012)

I don't see this thread as whiney, mostly honest.


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## BABYMETAL (Apr 4, 2014)

MelanieM said:


> Of course it's not reasonable, logical or helpful...but it happens. I am willing to bet everyone on this forum has been jealous of someone at some point in their life. I can't say I have felt hatred, but I didn't want to be around that person. I still logically knew it was my problem, but it didn't matter lol.


Well yeah, everyone gets jealous. That's why you need to deal with that jealousy. You can either pick yourself up and find a way to see yourself as beautiful, or let that jealousy turn you into a bitter person who has that "woe is me" attitude. It's just annoying. Complaining doesn't get you anywhere.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

candiemerald said:


> I'm usually in awe of women I find extremely attractive - I don't hate them. That would be insane and immature. I might long to be as gorgeous as them at times, but generally I just like looking at their flawless beauty and enjoying the view. I don't understand the petty, catty jealously that causes one human being to hate another because of their looks. Seriously. How shallow can we get?
> 
> If this is a qualification one needs in order to be a woman, I guess I've failed the test.
> 
> As someone said earlier: deal with it. Stop whining about not having as much as that other person, and get a life. Stop playing into the traps that society and the media set for you, which tell you you have to look a certain way to even be worth anyone's notice, and just be you.


Yeah, it's that simple guys. Deal with it!

Nah, its so hard for women looks wise because of the unattainable standards set to us. How can we deal with it? Is that the answer, then? To ignore the pressure and say if you can't handle it...then what? What are we then to do if we can't deal with it? Why should we have to? Men don't. 

Stop treating beautiful women as if they should be bowed down to and stop treating "ugly"/"average" women with less respect because they aren't as pretty. This would solve a lot of problems in how women view each other. Stop putting them on pedestals. They're just beautiful. That's it. I treat people how they treat me, not in accordance to their looks. 

Ffs I can't believe as a society we're still doing this.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

People can be jealous, but it's ridiculous. There's no such thing as 'the most beautiful woman in the world'. People have different tastes and it will vary greatly between cultures and groups. 

Not to mention looks are so fleeting. They can be gone in an instant. What a silly thing to strive for.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Yeah, it's that simple guys. Deal with it!
> 
> Nah, its so hard for women looks wise because of the unattainable standards set to us. How can we deal with it? Is that the answer, then? To ignore the pressure and say if you can't handle it...then what? What are we then to do if we can't deal with it? Why should we have to? Men don't.
> 
> ...


...you do realize that absolutely no one is making the argument that people should put beautiful women on pedestals or anything else you said, right?


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

moonlight_echo said:


> I disagree. Although female competition differs from male competition, it still exists. Why do you think women bother dressing up? Wearing makeup? Comparing themselves ruthlessly to other females?


I'm married with kids. I'm not competing for mates. I like dressing up and wearing make-up. I've liked it since I was 5. I don't waste my time comparing myself to other women and didn't waste my time comparing myself to other women when I was single. 

I agree some women compete for men just as some men compete for women. But they don't all go about it the same way on either side and they don't all compete. Some just seek a partner without getting competitive.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Firstly, yes, I recognize that its a thing. 

-But-... (A few things

I personally would never want to look like anyone but me. 

Once upon a time, in some thread, I expressed how I didn't like Lana Del Rey's plastic surgery. The reaction I got from a member was confusing and infuriating. Because of the fact that some women in some instances are jealous of women who fit the current cultural standard for beauty, it is always assumed, every time a woman has anything to say (positive, neutral or negative) about another female, that she has to be jealous.

Are there not other women who we genuinely dislike for other reasons? Is plastic surgery that acceptable these days, that when a woman makes herself look like Daisy Duck, we are just haters if we think it looks ridiculous? 

Anyway, I mostly envy other peoples hair - male or female, if you have nice hair, its not jealousy necessarily.. I just wanna scalp you and wear it for a while. ; P


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## moonlight_echo (May 15, 2011)

monemi said:


> I'm married with kids. I'm not competing for mates. I like dressing up and wearing make-up. I've liked it since I was 5. I don't waste my time comparing myself to other women and didn't waste my time comparing myself to other women when I was single.


I wonder about mate retention for some women though. Just because you found one doesn't mean you'll necessarily keep them.



> I agree some women compete for men just as some men compete for women. But they don't all go about it the same way on either side and they don't all compete. Some just seek a partner without getting competitive.


True, considering I fail at competing myself. I've noticed it in many women but not all.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

moonlight_echo said:


> I wonder about mate retention for some women though. Just because you found one doesn't mean you'll necessarily keep them.


My parents aren't what you'd call traditionalists and they've been married 35 years. We've been happily married 10 years. My inlaws have been married coming on 50 years soon. The Myth of the High Rate of Divorce | Psych Central 



> True, considering I fail at competing myself. I've noticed it in many women but not all.


I tend to be competitive in other aspects of my life. But competitive for a life partner seems counter-intuitive. Don't we all want someone that shares mutual interest? Equals. If a potential partner is interested in someone else and you need to battle for their attention, are you going to be doing that for the entirety of your relationship? It's one thing to work to get their attention. It's another to compete with others for their attention.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

monemi said:


> My parents aren't what you'd call traditionalists and they've been married 35 years. We've been happily married 10 years. My inlaws have been married coming on 50 years soon. The Myth of the High Rate of Divorce | Psych Central
> 
> 
> 
> I tend to be competitive in other aspects of my life. But competitive for a life partner seems counter-intuitive. Don't we all want someone that shares mutual interest? Equals. If a potential partner is interested in someone else and you need to battle for their attention, are you going to be doing that for the entirety of your relationship? It's one thing to work to get their attention. It's another to compete with others for their attention.


Yup. As a married woman who is with her husband for years already (8 years, 1 married), I agree that it's counter productive to have to compete to be chosen. For me it has always been like this when I enter into a relationship with someone: I either have your full interest and vice versa, or we don't. Love is about mutual feelings and growing a bond and affection towards each other, not picking some best model of mobile phone.

Sure, there are better models than me and better models than my husband out there, and we might be able to get them if we want. But thing is, when we develop a bond and share our lives together, we become each other's pals and life partners. This is why people stick together and prefer their partner over better models, something that not everyone might understand specially those who never experienced it yet.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

monemi said:


> I'm married with kids. I'm not competing for mates. I like dressing up and wearing make-up. I've liked it since I was 5. I don't waste my time comparing myself to other women and didn't waste my time comparing myself to other women when I was single.
> 
> I agree some women compete for men just as some men compete for women. But they don't all go about it the same way on either side and they don't all compete. Some just seek a partner without getting competitive.


Women are generally aesthetically focused and like beautiful things, including themselves looking beautiful. It's not really hard to understand that and I find it weird how some people simply assumes that everything women do has to be about men. Meh, sometimes I like how great I can look whether in a dress or in a pair of jeans, shirt and leather jacket, and some nice makeup too. It's part of my self expression, and any man who thinks that it must be to seduce them is quite self centered.


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

It's sad that many women feel that way. Insecurity _is_ conditioned into women, and it's fucked up.

I have a good friend who is tremendously beautiful and always gets lots of male attention when we go out together. In cases when I've liked the said male, I've experienced a slight twinge of jealousy, but the trick is recognizing it for what it is -- an emotion of _mine_, that's for _me to deal with_, and in no way her problem. Jealousy is natural, and when you're confronted with that feeling, it's your choice whether to keep it in check or blow it out of proportion.

The only attractive women I have an actual problem with are the ones who blatantly try to snag a guy I'm involved with who they _know_ I'm involved with. But men pull that shit too.


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## Madam (Apr 1, 2012)

crystal19 said:


> Do you think some women hate on very attractive women simply because these women easily attract men? Even more so if the attractive woman has a sunny and engaging personality?
> 
> I can see how an unattractive or mediocre woman who does not have much charisma can hate a much sexier and prettier more dynamic woman.


Oh... Why would I be jealous about the attention these women get? I am very good looking and I know what pain in the ass it is when everywhere you go there will be someone asking you on a date right after meeting you, when you can't do your job properly because of all the inappropriate comments, when you feel like you can't even smile at people anymore and should look your absolute worst just to get through the day somehow. Eventually it makes one wonder how many people really see you as an actual human with a personality and not just a fuckable doll. Mostly I feel sorry for very attractive women. At least for the ones with some brain, not those who put on half a makeup counter on their face, wear hardly any clothes, and then look down on other women. Chances are that we're not jealous, we're just annoyed by all the neverending ''I'm so hot, I can get all the men, I'm the one who turns heads not mediocre jealous women as you!'' I know some girls like that. Annoying as hell. It seems they have 0 self esteem (which is not surprising, because more often than not they have poor education, terrible jobs, no real interests) and can only find peace in chanting ''but all men love me!'' Which also seems to be exactly what OP is about.


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## Carmine Ermine (Mar 11, 2012)

I think I had some first hand experience of how beautiful women feel: when I was 18 I felt insecure because I thought I was very beautiful (even though I'm a straight man) but then over the years I got used to the idea that most women aren't interested in good looks in men. Only once they're attracted for other reasons, they might make a comment like I have beautiful eyes (by the way, my own eyes are actually the most beautiful I've seen, so I'm really happy that someone told me that too so I know it's not just me being very vain!).

As for beautiful women, I would love one but I have standards that are quite different from the media (in fact the most beautiful woman I've ever met, I bet most people would assume is just an average woman, what attracted me was her genius level intelligence and curves - unfortunately she didn't have other qualities I'm looking for such as liking to be appreciated and being playful).


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Carmine Ermine said:


> I think I had some first hand experience of how beautiful women feel: when I was 18 I felt insecure because I thought I was very beautiful (even though I'm a straight man) but then over the years I got used to the idea that most women aren't interested in good looks in men. Only once they're attracted for other reasons, might they make a comment like I have beautiful eyes (by the way, my own eyes are actually the most beautiful I've seen, so I'm really happy that someone told me that too so I know it's not just me being very vain!).
> 
> As for beautiful women, I would love one but I have standards that are quite different from the media (in fact the most beautiful woman I've ever met, I bet most people would assume is just an average woman, what attracted me was her genius level intelligence and curves - unfortunately she didn't have other qualities I'm looking for such as liking to be appreciated and being playful).


this was such a cute post omg


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## Kingpin (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm always extremely amused whenever I encounter a woman who declares that other women are jealous of them. Nine times out of ten; it's the reverse. If you treat other people well; people will like you back and _vice-versa_ -regardless of gender - unless of course, they are the delusional type I referenced in the first sentence.


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## Riy (Apr 1, 2010)

skycloud86 said:


> It doesn't help that society bombards women with messages telling them to put their looks before everything else and pitting them against each other.


Although I agree that society is guilty of that, It's also the "Victims" fault for not thinking for themselves.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Riy said:


> Although I agree that society is guilty of that, It's also the "Victims" fault for not thinking for themselves.


Well, maybe in the case of anorexia, but in total fairness it's not entirely the fault of the victim when people _around them_ bully them about that, because of a desire to get them to change that behavior or whatever induced by cultural ideas. 

That said, I think that's solvable with the simple instillment of the idea that you don't get to decide what's best for other people/what other people want, but...


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Some women: Yes.

Most women: I doubt it, but I have no proof.

Myself: Nope, I feel beautiful and sexy enough myself (and long stopped caring if that relates to "beautiful and sexy" in the stereotypical sense, because it means such different things to different people anyway). I don't feel particularly threatened by other women _or_ men, and I take my competitive urges to the racetrack or ring/mat - usually against guys (mainly because there are sadly not that many women around) :tongue:

On a more serious note: I can absolutely appreciate physical traits in other women I wish I had myself without hating them for it. It's hardly their fault that they have trait xyz I wish I had myself. Some would call that envy, but there's no ill will against that other person attached.


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## Nightchill (Oct 19, 2013)

Actually, I give compliments to beautiful women and get accused of being lesbian. wtf

*drops pants to sh*t on society and contradictions*


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

Nightchill said:


> Actually, I give compliments to beautiful women and get accused of being lesbian. wtf


Supposedly, most women aren't homophobic, but I wonder sometimes. The sort of women who tend to act very jealous and competitive might very well be more homophobic as well. There is the impression that many of them are going out of their way to advertise their disdain for other women... you have to wonder why they're doing that. LOL.

It also reminds me, part of the reason why men dislike sensitivity in other men, may well be because they are normally attracted to sensitivity in women... and when another guy shows traits like that, they feel uncomfortable because they don't want to be drawn to him. I've heard some of them admit that that's a part of it.

I've occasionally seen something similar with women. Women often don't like other women to be emotionally cold or insensitive, but they're drawn to emotionally unavailable men. I wonder if part of their dislike is rooted in the unconscious awareness that this kind of behavior would attract them if a man did it, and it's thus unsettling?

I don't know a lot about this kind of thing though, honestly. I'm mostly just pondering whether this kind of dynamic might play a role in men being T and women being F more often.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

I think it depends on if she's a threat or not. I'm usually not interested in attracting men in general, just whatever particular man I happen to be attracted to at the moment. If she's after the man I'm interested in, I'll automatically think she has a better chance than I do, and then I'll see her as a threat and therefore not like her. But if I know she'd never be interested in the man I'm interested in, whether or not I get along with her depends on the usual things, like whether or not we have anything in common.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

EccentricSiren said:


> I think it depends on if she's a threat or not. I'm usually not interested in attracting men in general, just whatever particular man I happen to be attracted to at the moment. If she's after the man I'm interested in, I'll automatically think she has a better chance than I do, and then I'll see her as a threat and therefore not like her. But if I know she'd never be interested in the man I'm interested in, whether or not I get along with her depends on the usual things, like whether or not we have anything in common.


Yeah, based on my own observations and what you and @Carmine Ermine have said, l just don't think women are really fighting for the ''best'' man the way shows like The Bachelor make it look like they/we do. 

Even a woman who could have the best, often picks an average man for some obscure quality.

You could try to use the real life example of women competition for rich husbands, but even this seems to be waning and limited to a select population. 
l found the JP Morgan chain letter going around telling even though it's fake, l think it reflects the current attitudes more accurately.

Still, though, the media seems bent on perpetuating this more so than ever so l am not sure if reality or reality TV will win. Men and women who have little exposure to the former usually operating with the latter mindset as the 'truth'.


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## Riy (Apr 1, 2010)

Chained Divinity said:


> Well, maybe in the case of anorexia, but in total fairness it's not entirely the fault of the victim when people _around them_ bully them about that, because of a desire to get them to change that behavior or whatever induced by cultural ideas.
> 
> That said, I think that's solvable with the simple instillment of the idea that you don't get to decide what's best for other people/what other people want, but...


How you deal with bullying plays a part. If you let it effect you and what you do then it is your fault, because you're letting others control you. I have been bullied my whole school life onwards (Aged 22 atm). I get comments usually daily from strangers on how I look, some even get phsyical, but I still do what I do and I am happy because of it. 

The thing is there are a lot of people who would love to do the same thing but let the fear control them. If more people let go of that fear, it wouldn't be so abnormal to see these changes happen through out society. Society doesn't like change but it soon gets used to it, if enough people actually go out there and make it happen.

From some experiences I've found that some people that do the bullying actually want to be like you or get to know you, but too scared about what others might think if they find out. Someone that used to bully me in school is now my friend and really looks up to me and has changed a lot, even to call me his biggest influence in being himself instead of what he thought he should of been.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Serious question though in terms of competition; what _ are_ ugly/unattractive even average women supposed to do to get a guy these days?


That sounds a bit like trying to imply that most average, or below average, looking women have trouble finding partners/have no relationships. Or that most women who are stunningly beautiful have no problems and are in relationships. Come on! 

Some random personal thoughts/attempts to answer that question:

1. Pointing out the obvious first: I'm not a man, maybe this is a question for http://personalitycafe.com/sex-relationships/124962-im-man-ask-me-anything.html ?

2. Stop perceiving other people as competition when it comes to relationships, because the very moment you do that, you already focus on the wrong thing.

3. Try to stop believing you are ugly when you are not (I won't go into more detail on that notion). 
I know that's tricky, and it took me a while to figure that one out myself (early 20s I'd say - I'm getting very close to 40, and I am a bit more mellow these days ). Just because someone called you ugly, doesn't mean you are. It just means they're bullies - decent people don't say shit like that. 
Our self-image is not objective either, for obvious reasons. If we hate ourselves, it's very hard for others to like us. If we have issues with ourselves, there's (professional) help available. 
I'm not one to say: "Just be confident." That's crap advice IMHO, because confidence doesn't develop and exist in a vacuum. I personally found that focusing on stuff I enjoyed and was good at gave me a boost and a sense of accomplishment. It made me more balanced and raised my self-esteem in the long run. For me, it really got to the point I stopped caring about the wrong and meaningless people in my life, and the right ones started to appear on their own. 
So maybe doing nice things for yourself (and/or others), instead of just focusing on how others perceive you outwardly, helps to an extent as well? 

4. Depending on how you're wired, stop focusing on "getting a guy" as if your life depended on it. Flirt, have fun (smiling/laughing is attractive actually), see what happens. 
Relaxed people who radiate they are happy and like themselves (not: are full of themselves!) are attractive to a lot of people, even if they're very, or even below, average looking. Negative or seemingly defensive people with bitchy-resting-face are often not, even if they're pretty, because it makes them seem hostile and hard to approach. Example: I find moody looking guys quite attractive in pictures, but if they're constantly like that in real life, I find it rather off-putting.
I never really had a problem with getting male attention, and I really don't look like Megan Fox, or whomever some guys drool over these days, so I don't think that's it. The only exception were maybe my teens, when I was perceived as a bit different (mainly due to my interests, but also because of my style) - I wasn't one of the "cool, pretty girls" guys were desperate to associate with. Funnily enough, what made me less interesting to men back then made me more interesting to them years later. Life has its funny ways  Even so: The bullies of my teens were mostly girls, not boys. 
My honest opinion: Women are their own worst enemies, not men.

Women should stop believing they only have a chance if they look like a model, because honestly: Most men are really not that shallow. Not in my experience, not in the experience of most women I know and associate with (maybe that's also a tip: Ditch the catty bitches, no one needs toxic girl"friends"). Yes, you get the odd deluded guy, but over all, men are really not that bad. It makes me sad I even feel the (probably misplaced) need to say that, but some of these stereotypes are seemingly perpetuated as gospel...


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

@FallingSlowly - Maybe it's more the loss of the perceived chance to have a relationship with that person than the loss of the "relationship" itself. Supposedly, if no one else is in the picture, you can think that maybe, just maybe, you have a chance to be with that person. Once there is someone else, that illusion is shattered. There's always uncertainty when you're attracted to someone, but it's more fun to be in a "maybe it could happen" scenario than in a "it's probably not going to happen" scenario if you've already fallen for the person. So when a person abruptly gets knocked from the former scenario or the latter, whether real or perceived, there's a bit of a loss to be mourned. It's just that it's of a perceived chance, not an actual relationship.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

monemi said:


> Oh! That this happened a long time ago, makes more sense. It sounded recent.


This woman was an extremely manipulative, narcissistic and controlling individual - very much like my late mother except that she was actually aware of her attempts to continually undermine me.

Yes, it was (and to some extent, still is) difficult for me to from healthy relationships with other women because unfamiliar seems scary. One of my best friends who is a woman and things are great now but in the beginning; it was really hard for me to get close to her. Luckily for me, she took an assertive approach; which made it a lot easier.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

As someone who isn't that beautiful, any husband/wife you find, you will know that he/she didn't pick you solely for your outward appearances which is a nice bonus 

When beautiful people get older and lose that beauty, all the advantages they've taken through the years using their looks will come crashing down on them when the looks fade.

There are plenty of other reasons why life is more just than people's initial thoughts =).


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

FallingSlowly said:


> Women should stop believing they only have a chance if they look like a model, because honestly: Most men are really not that shallow. Not in my experience, not in the experience of most women I know and associate with (maybe that's also a tip: Ditch the catty bitches, no one needs toxic girl"friends"). Yes, you get the odd deluded guy, but over all, men are really not that bad. It makes me sad I even feel the (probably misplaced) need to say that, but some of these stereotypes are seemingly perpetuated as gospel...


Great post but unfortunately I disagree with the last part. I've had many personal experiences telling me otherwise. They are shallow. It's in their nature. Not that I blame them entirely.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Great post but unfortunately I disagree with the last part. I've had many personal experiences telling me otherwise. They are shallow. It's in their nature. Not that I blame them entirely.


Can't say anything about your experiences with men obviously, but one thing I can say: You are really pretty in my opinion. I've seen your photos, and I honestly think you are "above average". I'm fully aware that's relative, and I'm not a man, so I judge things differently, but I sense a lot of thinking you are ugly in your posts, and I don't know why that is. It's none of my concern, and maybe you've made some bad experiences with total idiots (I made them, too when I was younger btw).

How pretty people perceive you to be is one thing, everyone has got their own standards (I'm fairly sure a lot of men would actually agree with me on that you look good though), but one thing you are not: Ugly. Not that I think you'll believe me anyway, but I just needed to get that off my chest 

You're better off without the few shallow ones anyway..


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

I do this thing where I just kind of stare at the ground and try to avoid eye contact and looking at people in general (either that or hazily looking in front of myself without really.. noticing anyone). 

Not that I never notice other women. I acknowledge that they're beautiful and such but don't really feel any... hatred for them. I can't really imagine what they possibly have that I would _want_ to have and don't due to being less attractive than them. Even if more men may be attracted to them, I don't need all these men. I just need one and, statically speaking, he's most likely somewhere out there. Not going to deny that I can envy them to a degree.. but it's not a very strong degree. It doesn't do anything to my self-esteem. I envy personality traits in other women more; such as ability to be outspoken, very good with folks, making friends and such. But at the same time I'm satisfied with my own personality so idk... 

hate though? That's just kind of... intense. To be so envious of someone that you hate them for no other reason .. may say more about you than it says about the person being hated on for their appearance, however dressed they may be.


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