# Can I bounce some stuff off you guys and get your thoughts?



## sun spun rainbows (May 13, 2014)

I guess from ISJs in particular but I'm not picky.

I'm having an awful time discovering my type. It has been this way since long before PerC or any internet type forums. It was only since encountering this world that I learned things like, "everyone wants to think of themselves as N", and "no-one wants to be an SJ", etc. It seems like anyone who says they think they might be an INTJ or INFJ is automatically suspect of being delusional. I have some people pleasing issues, no doubt, so discovering those attitudes made me initially steer away from even considering those types.

So, I have twice this year submitted a questionnaire for help in typing myself and the second one has given at least a couple of people a strong SFJ impression. There apparently wasn't strong evidence for Si in my first questionnaire when I thought I was INFP but not conclusively and there were no real strong impressions of anything so I guess a strong impression of something is progress. 

Meanwhile, I don't actually relate to SFJ though. I don't at all relate to the SJ temperament but it isn't remotely to do with some typist prejudice. I just don't. 

Two of my long term close friends are SJs. One ISFJ and one ISTJ. I asked them both to type themselves. They each (they don't know each other) came to their conclusions on their first attempt, had complete contentment with the result, and had no further questions. I keep reading about how the profiles that populate the internet are worthless but these guys were both content with the standard description they read and my ISFJ friend went on to use MBTI to type her husband and try to understand some conflicts and improve their relationship. When I kept coming back to her, despairing over my inability to relate to any type I came up with (my tests vary and apparently I suck at self reporting) and was throwing my hands in the air and about to toss MBTI in the trash, she maintained that it had been accurate and useful for her and that encouraged me to think through it more.

I was actually in awe of how both of these ladies KNEW themselves. They knew their strengths and weaknesses, they knew what they liked and didn't like, they knew their values. I envy that. *Is this typical of SJ temperament or just a coincidental similarity between my two unconnected friends?* I know I'm not healthy that that is interfering with my own typing but my ISFJ friend isn't either and she still knew her head from her tail (so to speak).

Thing is, I was reading one of the forums around PerC in some random thread where someone confessed they actually weren't sure if they were ISFP or ISFJ and someone responded that, in their experience, someone who was an ISFJ would be glad (or was it relieved?) to find out they were ISFJ (as opposed to not being sure that the result was correct). My immediate thought was, of course, THAT is pretty much how my ISFJ friend responded to her test results. I guess kind of like a sense of validation for her. *Can anyone confirm that this is, at least generally speaking, common for ISFJs?*

Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm going here. Just thinking and wanting some fresh thoughts to consider. Any input would be appreciated.


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## tingeling (Nov 14, 2014)

I'll think that I'll use your own words back to you:
“Tension is who you think you should be. Relaxation is who you are.”—Chinese Proverb"

Sound a litte as INFP, with all that back-forth thinking, rambling?
Can also be a INFJ, who haven't decided yet? I think that you need to relax more, 
Your thought patterns feels a lot like iNution, it's more complex and distorted than Sensory, so it'll take time to sort it out.
I know how it is. It's like hell and heaven at the same time, and together with FJ I see and feel everything, it's like swimming in thick syrupe when one haven't a clear goal or wish, one don't really know what one are, everything are possible.

But please note that MBTI are a tool, it's not you, you're trying to fit yourself backward into that puzzle. (a model)
It's not healthy. Save your energy, the answer can come later, the most important is that you have learned a little more about yourself.

I measured first as INTJ, but it was wrong, I am really a INFJ, but my harsh life, school and social condition made me a INTJ.
It was very difficult to open up to myself, all these bottled up Feeling needed to be sorted out and cleaned out. 
I am still learning more about myself, and sometimes I don't like it. 

Theren't any notation of ambivertience, one are put either as extrovert or introvert. 
I am full introvertive, so no issue here, but it can confuse other peoples who enjoying both.


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## sun spun rainbows (May 13, 2014)

That's what those words are there for—to use back at myself. I am moving towards relaxation as I learn about myself.

I am really curious about ISJs in general, though. Does dominant Si *typically* give one a very sure and acurate sense of themselves? Is it really so common as the internet suggests that Si-doms think, or want to believe, they are different than they are? It just isn't my experience but then ... my experience is 2/2 people.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Chartreuse Jade said:


> There apparently wasn't strong evidence for Si in my first questionnaire


I'm going to have to disagree. I stalked your posts due to the inclination you filled out another questionnaire prior to the one I read (I feel like a stalker; like I'm invading your personal privacy). And holy fucking Si. You are overwhelmed by chaos. Too many noises, sounds, ect. are intense to you. I love chaos. I was a picky eater, but grew out of it. I can do ok in a pretty noisy environment, even if it's annoying. I can adapt. My mother, whom I suspect is an Si dom, cannot. A simple task to the grocery store overwhelms the living fuck out of her. If I talk too loud, she shushes me. Mess, clutter, too much external sensory stimulation? She can barely handle life due to it. Reading that was the looking glass of my mother. You're her twin. Not saying you experience external stimulation to such an innate degree, but it left a super strong impression on me, to the point I forgot about other shit you wrote that screamed Si in a bright red fury. 




Chartreuse Jade said:


> Two of my long term close friends are SJs. One ISFJ and one ISTJ. I asked them both to type themselves. They each (they don't know each other) came to their conclusions on their first attempt, had complete contentment with the result, and had no further questions


Just because they say they are si doms does not mean they are si doms. Remember, self typing is nearly inevitable. Like 90% of the time.



Chartreuse Jade said:


> I was actually in awe of how both of these ladies KNEW themselves. They knew their strengths and weaknesses, they knew what they liked and didn't like, they knew their values. I envy that.


Sounds like Fe to me. Unaware of your own thoughts and feelings. I am intensely aware of what I'm feeling, but can't always put those feelings into words. I'm going to guess you pay more attention to the feelings of others rather than your own? 



Chartreuse Jade said:


> .... someone who was an ISFJ would be glad (or was it relieved?) to find out they were ISFJ (as opposed to not being sure that the result was correct). .....Can anyone confirm that this is, at least generally speaking, common for ISFJs?


I can't confirm this as idk, but just because someone said that doesn't mean it's true. Don't take everything here as truth. There's a lot of bs spewing around on the internet that come from ppl with piss poor understanding of the functions, and perc isn't immune.

I'm only here because I want to help you out. You are not at ease, very overwhelmed, and I want to take the edge off. Not sure if I'm going to help or just add to the confusion, but I tried. Take a break. Center yourself. You're getting too overwhelmed by all of this, and I can feel it. Maybe take a break from typology for awhile. I'm not here to tell you you are isfj; that's up to you. I hate making decisions for other people, so leave it to yourself. Do what you feel is right for you in this process.


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## sun spun rainbows (May 13, 2014)

@hoopla
So, I am still in the process of responding in PM, btw. Not that it is long and profound, I've just been thinking a lot and I guess I could probably just do it here, now. lol

So, I only have such issues to this degree when I am stressed and I have been under excessive stress on and off for about two years at least (by choice, as unpleasant as the stress is). My dear husband pointed out that I have the ability to not notice all kinds of things that suddenly take on huge, dramatic importance the very second I am stressed out. This is what led me to wonder if Si is actually my inferior function. I don't recall off hand all that Si is about so maybe I'm just spouting stereotypes here (forgive me SJs) but I have an aversion to sentimentality, no attachment to the past, little sense of roots, am hopeless at creating or maintaining traditions, and absolutely wither on schedules and routines and too much of the familiar.

On the other hand, I have learned that my sensitivities may not have anything to do with MBTI but from reading, 70% of people with the problem and also typed by MBTI are actually IN**. I haven't yet read the book The Highly Sensitive Person but it's on my reading list. I also don't think I'm an IN** although I have often typed as such. I was actually leaning ISTP because I relate those descriptions (the ones that get beyond the stereotype) better. Meanwhile, I found this quote and have been reading up more about this which I relate to:



> Some HSPs are "High Sensation Seekers." These are people who are both Highly Sensitive, and seek out varied, novel and intense experiences, while most HSPs seek predictability, peace and quiet. HSS/HSPs face special challenges, because the very experiences they seek out in life are usually also a source of overstimulation for them.


I would talk about it more but, like you, I'm thinking no one really wants to hear me go on and on about myself. :laughing: And yet .. I DO want to hear more about YOU so I will be lurking your thread and stalking you.

And you are right. I DO need to take a break and center myself. I need to get out. I'm going stir crazy. I just had a short vacation a couple of weeks back but I feel like I need another. lol


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## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

To the OP: 



Chartreuse Jade said:


> I'm having an awful time discovering my type. It has been this way since long before PerC or any internet type forums.


Well, at least you’ve come to the right place. Keep on reading and learning. 



Chartreuse Jade said:


> It was only since encountering this world that I learned things like, "everyone wants to think of themselves as N", and "no-one wants to be an SJ", etc. It seems like anyone who says they think they might be an INTJ or INFJ is automatically suspect of being delusional. I have some people pleasing issues, no doubt, so discovering those attitudes made me initially steer away from even considering those types.


Like anywhere else, be skeptical about all the statements here. Here’s why for this site: 

PerC is an Internet forum, which people join voluntarily for their own reasons. Since it isn’t the real world, thus the proportion of types and the nature of interaction would be different in many ways. Let’s list an example. 

http://personalitycafe.com/estj-forum-guardians/368978-whats-lack-estj-forum.html

“INFPs are rare in the real world, but on this forum they are plenty.” This accurately describes a situation, but doesn’t state the possible causes. Of which I’ll name just 2: The type is so rare that they must go online to find other INFPs. INFPs want somewhere free to be themselves without society crushing down on them. 



Chartreuse Jade said:


> So, I have twice this year submitted a questionnaire for help in typing myself and the second one has given at least a couple of people a strong SFJ impression. There apparently wasn't strong evidence for Si in my first questionnaire when I thought I was INFP but not conclusively and there were no real strong impressions of anything so I guess a strong impression of something is progress.
> 
> Meanwhile, I don't actually relate to SFJ though. I don't at all relate to the SJ temperament but it isn't remotely to do with some typist prejudice. I just don't.


Remember, MBTI is just a theory – and theories basically try to approximate reality by looking at patterns. Theories are generally accurate, but there are exceptions. You might just be one. 

It also tracks preferences, not abilities. Both of these can be affected by both nature and life experience. Maybe you could take a look at the personality page profiles? 

Oh, and I could really care less about typist prejudice or "peer" pressure about one type being better or whatever. More important is that you learn more about yourself. 



Chartreuse Jade said:


> Two of my long term close friends are SJs. One ISFJ and one ISTJ. I asked them both to type themselves. They each (they don't know each other) came to their conclusions on their first attempt, had complete contentment with the result, and had no further questions. I keep reading about how the profiles that populate the internet are worthless but these guys were both content with the standard description they read and my ISFJ friend went on to use MBTI to type her husband and try to understand some conflicts and improve their relationship. When I kept coming back to her, despairing over my inability to relate to any type I came up with (my tests vary and apparently I suck at self reporting) and was throwing my hands in the air and about to toss MBTI in the trash, she maintained that it had been accurate and useful for her and that encouraged me to think through it more.
> I was actually in awe of how both of these ladies KNEW themselves. They knew their strengths and weaknesses, they knew what they liked and didn't like, they knew their values. I envy that. *Is this typical of SJ temperament or just a coincidental similarity between my two unconnected friends?* I know I'm not healthy that that is interfering with my own typing but my ISFJ friend isn't either and she still knew her head from her tail (so to speak).


A common trait among SJs is that they will find practical uses for stuff FAST. So if they find a theory that matches their perception of reality, they will put it to practical use fast, which is what’s going on here. 

Oh, the fact that I'm here also means the same thing here. 



Chartreuse Jade said:


> Thing is, I was reading one of the forums around PerC in some random thread where someone confessed they actually weren't sure if they were ISFP or ISFJ and someone responded that, in their experience, someone who was an ISFJ would be glad (or was it relieved?) to find out they were ISFJ (as opposed to not being sure that the result was correct). My immediate thought was, of course, THAT is pretty much how my ISFJ friend responded to her test results. I guess kind of like a sense of validation for her. *Can anyone confirm that this is, at least generally speaking, common for ISFJs?*


Not ISFJ, but AFAIK the validation feeling applies only for positive aspects. 



Chartreuse Jade said:


> Anyway, I'm not sure where I'm going here. Just thinking and wanting some fresh thoughts to consider. Any input would be appreciated.


Not so related to your topic, but your post here is pretty long. SJs, especially STJs, tend to prefer short, to the point posts, and hate walls of text. Summarise your points.


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## Epicyclic (Aug 7, 2014)

Chartreuse Jade said:


> So, I only have such issues to this degree when I am stressed and I have been under excessive stress on and off for about two years at least (by choice, as unpleasant as the stress is). My dear husband pointed out that I have the ability to not notice all kinds of things that suddenly take on huge, dramatic importance the very second I am stressed out. This is what led me to wonder if Si is actually my inferior function. I don't recall off hand all that Si is about so maybe I'm just spouting stereotypes here (forgive me SJs) but I have an aversion to sentimentality, no attachment to the past, little sense of roots, am hopeless at creating or maintaining traditions, and absolutely wither on schedules and routines and too much of the familiar.
> 
> On the other hand, I have learned that my sensitivities may not have anything to do with MBTI but from reading, 70% of people with the problem and also typed by MBTI are actually IN**. I haven't yet read the book The Highly Sensitive Person but it's on my reading list. I also don't think I'm an IN** although I have often typed as such. I was actually leaning ISTP because I relate those descriptions (the ones that get beyond the stereotype) better. Meanwhile, I found this quote and have been reading up more about this which I relate to:


Under acute stress, it is possible for people to act out of character, regardless of type or whatever. 



Chartreuse Jade said:


> I would talk about it more but, like you, I'm thinking no one really wants to hear me go on and on about myself. :laughing: And yet .. I DO want to hear more about YOU so I will be lurking your thread and stalking you.


Pre-empting the response......but no I'm not worth stalking.


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## cheapsunglasses (May 13, 2014)

@Chartreuse Jade

Epicyclic's post is excellent, but below is SPOT ON!



Epicyclic said:


> *It* also *tracks preferences, not abilities*. Both of these can be affected by both nature and life experience.
> 
> *More important is that you learn more about yourself. *


Also, you mentioned your ISFJ and ISTJ friends seemed decisive and wondered if that was attributed to Si. IMO, it is more likely to be the "J" than the Si, even though they share both. I only mention that to help you decide your type. 

I'd suggest you take a functions test (one test, another one, yet another one , and there are more… just Google) as a starting point, and then look further into how you use each function. Don't rely on anecdotal questionnaires interpreted by someone that doesn't know you, to type yourself. Don't depend completely on a test either. I've learned that I have developed Te to communicate with the Ts that surround me, personally and professionally, even though it doesn't match the ISFJ stereotype. However, using Te isn't a natural preference, but one developed over time. It's quite obvious to others that I don't react or respond like a T. You may be in a similar situation that clouds finding your type. The better you know yourself, the more accurate the test will score, but it is only picking up on your preferences, not your abilities, as Epicyclic eloquently stated above. The more you dig into the functions, the more likely you are to identify with some, and then you'll know. Good luck!


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