# relationships....



## vorpal (Jun 12, 2011)

I know this is a common issue with NTs, but I'm trying to work a theory here...

Forming and maintaining relationships has always been difficult for me to justify.

Would you say that the mark of a mature NT is their ability and willingness to form and maintain relationships / friendships with people?


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## ironic (Jun 14, 2011)

I agree with you. I believe that NTs who are still figuring themselves out have a tendency to shy away from relationships because of the unknown variables involved. They're so focused on foreseeing all of the possible outcomes that they don't allow themselves to actually indulge in the relationship. I also think that less mature NTs are also (forgive me) selfish,unable to give a part of themself away to bond with someone else. They only see what they can gain from the relationship and not what they can give to the other person; they're worried about getting hurt or revealing too much about themself. A mature NT can put away all of their insecurities and appreciate the relationship for what it is without worrying about "what could happen."


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

^That sounds like an INTJ, not an NT.


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## 22857 (May 31, 2011)

I wouldn't say willingness to enter relationships or start them defines a mature NT; 
I'd say a mature NT will be able to stay connected to their relationships without pushing away.
NTs seem to have a problem connecting with people even when we're close to them. 
I believe as NTs mature, we learn to express how we truly feel better, which helps the other party find us not so cold.
At the same time, we learn to see where the other party is coming from and understand better how they truly feel and why.

Even a mature NT though won't find it easy to just open up to serious relationships though.
I think even then, we need to find the few people who can truly connect with us. 
And that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with maturity. 

I mean, a mature NT will be able to keep surface level relationships and deeper relationships.

What's really important for an NT though, is that we find ourselves. 
This could be the case for every temperament but I think for us especially.
Until we understand who we are, we won't be able to express ourselves properly and this is what we need to do to stay connected in relationships. Express ourselves truly and understand others truly.


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

Do NTs have trust issues? 
What's up with that? 

I thought INTJs and INFJs were the ones who did that.


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## 22857 (May 31, 2011)

TheOpenDoor said:


> Do NTs have trust issues?
> What's up with that?
> 
> I thought INTJs and INFJs were the ones who did that.


I'm an INTP (might as well be XNTP) and I have trust issues. 
Not really _issues_ honestly, more of i don't trust many people.
I've learned to trust people more than I did when I was younger, but nonetheless.
I think it has to do with our critical rationality and thinking we know best.
Or it could be the fact that we associate the pattern that people aren't trustworthy.
Or it could be that we depend so much on our own thoughts and imagination that it's hard to depend on someone else (this would be even more true with introverts). 

Just throwing ideas out there, don't take any of the above for my belief of truth...

Edit: Wait, you're an ENTJ, do you have "trust issues"?


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

No, I don't have trust issues. 

I'm an excellent people knower, so I can easy as hell figure out what kind of person you are without missing a detail. So it's pretty easy to figure out who to place your trust in, and who you shouldn't.


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## 22857 (May 31, 2011)

Hmm, then perhaps it's an IN thing.


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

Yes, I think that's a fair assessment.


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## Ryuku (Sep 12, 2010)

ironic said:


> I agree with you. I believe that NTs who are still figuring themselves out have a tendency to shy away from relationships because of the unknown variables involved. They're so focused on foreseeing all of the possible outcomes that they don't allow themselves to actually indulge in the relationship. I also think that less mature NTs are also (forgive me) selfish,unable to give a part of themself away to bond with someone else. They only see what they can gain from the relationship and not what they can give to the other person; they're worried about getting hurt or revealing too much about themself. A mature NT can put away all of their insecurities and appreciate the relationship for what it is without worrying about "what could happen."



wow...That describes my INTP gf EXACTLY, at least the immature NT bit...I guess that makes me a mature NT then? I'm INTJ and I see more of what I can give her than what she can give me, even though I probably get more from the relationship than her... Just...wow...ironic that is her to the letter, and why she broke up ...


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## Kr3m1in (Jan 16, 2011)

I'm good with relationships.I don't get into many, but when I am in I am in.
And no, no trust issues.
INTJs I know though, they have trouble finding the motivation to be involved with people.
Perhaps it's just ones I know, but I know quite a few.


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## Empecinado (May 4, 2010)

I think many people seem to get into relationships for the sake of it - at least how I perceive a relationship. I seem to think a relationship as an extended friendship where we can grow and share in activities (physical in addition to intellectual).

I believe that many of the potential relationships I have been "offered" would be boring. There hasn't been much of a connection. I would rather be free unless there is a massive incentive. I've tended to be interested at first then become bored and contact has become gradually less and less. 

I admit that when they're in a relationship or when they're simply no longer obtainable they seem significantly more attractive. *facepalm*


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## March Cat (Jan 27, 2011)

Empecinado said:


> I think many people seem to get into relationships for the sake of it - at least how I perceive a relationship. I seem to think a relationship as an extended friendship where we can grow and share in activities (physical in addition to intellectual).


This view is exactly like my own. I don't think most mature NTs have relationship problems, they just tend to be more selective. While most people choose their friends and SO just for the sake of having more relationships or for fun, an NT's exclusivity may seem "strange" or "problematic". This might be more true for INT's than ENT's, but they already know who they would want to be in a relationship with and who they wouldn't. That way, they don't need to go through the actual relationship to find out if they're compatible or not. They can usually tell before-hand. I don't see how this is a problem, it saves us a lot of time and prevents getting stressed over compatibility issues.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

vorpal said:


> I know this is a common issue with NTs, but I'm trying to work a theory here...
> 
> Forming and maintaining relationships has always been difficult for me to justify.
> 
> Would you say that the mark of a mature NT is their ability and willingness to form and maintain relationships / friendships with people?


Generally, yes. We live above our shoulders in various different ways (ENTJ's want to lead people and complete projects, loving the abstract problem-solving and leadership aspects of that; INTP's love analyzing and organizing and explaining knowledge, which is grist for their mill; ENTP's are almost in the middle of ENTJ's and INTP's in that they love the INTP's analysis of potential future possibilities while also being more willing to be out front of projects and leading people like ENTJ's; etc.) 

What this means is that our strengths tend not to oriented around empathizing with people, and that means our relationships are quite often "all about us", which means it's not much of a "relationship" at all given that that really needs to be a two-way street. 

For me, I have only two close friends, close relationships also with my brother and sister, and also of late with my girlfriend (another "blossoming" INTP in her late 30's). I didn't really become emotional until I had my son in my mid-30's. It really changed my perspective and got me more oriented into the "here and now". It also taught me what it means to be truly "open" with the people in my life about who I am, what I want, what I'm feeling, etc. 

This was definitely maturity on my part, and I wish it had happened earlier in my life but I suppose it was the path I needed to take to break through all of that. Relationships take effort, but before NT's can make the effort it has to occur to them in the first place that they need to do something to show the importance of those various people, often just a phone call or cooking dinner or remembering a birthday, etc. 

One more side dish in my food for thought- I hate the concept regarding kids of "quality time". You don't get to select quality time, it just happens. All you can do is spend time with them, and you'll suddenly see little moments, such as when your son or daughter spontaneously show affection for you, or shared with y ou some thought they've had about something they've seen or heard or have been thinking about. 

All too often, we NT's check out of our personal relationships and then rely upon (read "desperately hope") that we can race back into those relationships and make it up by spending "quality time" doing "big things", e.g. trips to Disneyland, buying a bicycle at Toys R Us, coaching sports teams, etc. It just doesn't work that way and it actually comes across as a forced effort on our part to desperately get that quality time, which has to be stressful for the other person - it's stressful for us if you think about it ("Isn't this great, honey? Aren't you having fun? Honey?"). It's our job to learn that and to moderate our tendencies to become so absorbed in our interests/projects that we don't show the people around us how important they are to us.


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