# In politics, what types of arguments persuade you the most?



## Nyomos (Mar 31, 2014)

In discussions about politics, what types of arguments persuade you the most? And what types of arguments turn you off?

I'm genuinely curious because Intuitives (xxNx) and Sensors (xxSx) are very different from each other. So something that resonates with me might have no effect for you and vice versa. In this context, I'm not here to judge you, but rather to find out how I can communicate better with SPs who have different perspectives.

Please respond only if you are an SP or know someone close who is one, though. I want to minimize the amount of posts that don't contribute to that goal. And I don't want others to criticize the SPs who do respond.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

I want to know how these things will affect me as a person, and my lifestyle. That is what will convince me. Also show me that you are a down-to-earth, humble person (Barack Obama is a very good example; George Bush is the opposite). Oh and don't be a complete bore while you're telling me all this.

The reason I am not interested in politics most of the time is because I feel like it doesn't affect me. Even though it does. And also it's boring and divisive. I don't like conflict.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Rational, principles-based arguments. People are fickle and don't really always know what they want. But principles don't change, and they are universally applicable. Give me a rational argument for how your policies stick to principle, and you may convince me. But one overriding principle to me is the rule of Law, and Law meaning the US Constitution. People who ignore or attempt to bypass that are on my dirty list--that means most politicians these days... In other words, there's not much a politician can say to convince me. It's actions all the way. Show me that you can adhere to your principles under stress, and you might get my vote.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I enjoy politics a lot, I've been on several campaigns, I like the bare knuckled bloodsport, the campaign races, the interesting personalities. I think I like how Congress functions, or doesn't function, rather than the issues themselves. I don't get all passionate about abortion. I think a lot of issues are the fire in your belly, and I'm not a fire in my belly person. That said I think the minimum wage should be raised, and we should block the Keystone Pipeline development as it will hurt the environment. And if you haven't seen it yet go _A Bright Shining Moment_, it's about George McGovern.


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## allergy (Jul 16, 2014)

I like arguments that focus on the aftermath of the situations, if that makes sense. If a decision is made in the heat of the moment, it's probably not a good one. (Spoken from experience.)


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

Fact-based arguments. 
I am not easily moved by strawman, angry decisions. 
I'm tremendously liberal and am referred to as a "tree-hugging hippy" due to the stress I put on environmental conservation. but, I also have a degree in science, so my perspectives are also based on fact. {I can just get really intense about them sometimes.} 

ultimately, I do my own research. I'm not persuaded; my curiosity is sparked and I figure out the rest for myself.


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## Navid (May 11, 2014)

Facts and numbers. I used to strongly believe in banning guns in US, my friend then showed me statistics showing that every country that has outlawed guns has had there crime rate go up, including gun violence. I immediately changed positions.


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## Conterphobia (Apr 11, 2013)

ISFP here. Honestly I have no heart for people. What I'm saying is that unless Congress is talking about solving world hunger (which they are not) then I couldn't care less what the politicians do.


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## Apolo (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeahright said:


> (Barack Obama is a very good example; George Bush is the opposite).


I think you forgot the /sarcasm tag. 




To the OP, it really depends for me. I will take what the other person says into consideration, but most of my views and opinions are based on facts and information that I have gathered through many hours of research, and am rarely convinced that random people have spent as much time on the topic, that they know enough to suede me one way or another.But the minute they get emotional or start flying by the seat of their pants in a debate, I very very quickly disregard anything they have to say on the matter, and ignore them.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Nyomos said:


> In discussions about politics, what types of arguments persuade you the most? And what types of arguments turn you off?
> 
> I'm genuinely curious because Intuitives (xxNx) and Sensors (xxSx) are very different from each other. So something that resonates with me might have no effect for you and vice versa. In this context, I'm not here to judge you, but rather to find out how I can communicate better with SPs who have different perspectives.
> 
> Please respond only if you are an SP or know someone close who is one, though. I want to minimize the amount of posts that don't contribute to that goal. And I don't want others to criticize the SPs who do respond.


I really like arguments where there is a lot of evidence, reasonable questions and direct questions. They don't account for emotions, whether fear or anger or prejudice, just pure facts like 'the earth is round because I saw it' rather than 'i've heard a lot of people say it, if they didn't say it, why would it be right?'. 

also i lean toward a democratic side of political arguments, however, any other side is good if it supports the above agenda fully or completely. enough to make me turn ! :crazy: 

oh i think i've already answered the second question, (when answering the first question) aha.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Apolo said:


> I think you forgot the /sarcasm tag.


Don't believe I did


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## Apolo (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeahright said:


> Don't believe I did


I'd absolutely love to see how you came to that conclusion, and what evidence you found to base that interesting opinion on.


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## Conterphobia (Apr 11, 2013)

Apolo said:


> I'd absolutely love to see how you came to that conclusion, and what evidence you found to base that interesting opinion on.


Pshhh, don't mean he was serious.


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Apolo said:


> I'd absolutely love to see how you came to that conclusion, and what evidence you found to base that interesting opinion on.


Watching TV and not giving much a shit about politics


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## Apolo (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeahright said:


> Watching TV and not giving much a shit about politics


Then I suppose I can see how you would arrive at that conclusion. lol


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## something987 (Jul 20, 2014)

Apolo said:


> Then I suppose I can see how you would arrive at that conclusion. lol


I am curious what your opinion is. ISTPs usually seem like they have pretty solid opinions. Also cuz I don't want to spend a bunch of time researching and forming an opinion.


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## Conterphobia (Apr 11, 2013)

Yeahright said:


> I am curious what your opinion is. ISTPs usually seem like they have pretty solid opinions. Also cuz I don't want to spend a bunch of time researching and forming an opinion.


Hell yes to this.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Nyomos said:


> In discussions about politics, what types of arguments persuade you the most?


Arguments that agree with my Fi values. Also arguments that appeal to Te.



> And what types of arguments turn you off?


Arguments based on logical fallacies or emotions. Arguments that fall apart after mere seconds of thinking about them.


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## Apolo (Aug 15, 2014)

Yeahright said:


> I am curious what your opinion is. ISTPs usually seem like they have pretty solid opinions. Also cuz I don't want to spend a bunch of time researching and forming an opinion.


I will just use a few examples, as it would take an overwhelming amount of time to post every single occurrence, or incident here which I find relevant. 


*Obama:*
Orders flags half mast for Nelson Mandela, but skips the funeral of the highest-ranking officer to be killed on foreign soil in over 40 years (Major-General Harold J. Greene), to play golf.

Instead of having his civilian aides do it, he orders a Marine to hold an umbrella over his head like a butler for an entire speech at the Rose Garden, in violation of military regulations.

Issues a statement about the death of Whitney Houston, but is silent when former Navy Seal and Author Chris Kyle is murdered. 

Forces Army Couple to postpone and relocate wedding, so he can play golf where they were having it.

Ordered federal agencies to make the sequester cuts as painful as possible for the American people, which ended up cutting tuition assistance for soldiers and increasing other college costs for the Armed Forces across the board. (This one personally affected me, and forced me to drop the semester.)

Denying veterans from all over the country access to the WWII Memorial in Washington over a staged government shutdown

Would not attend the dedication ceremony for The American Veterans Disabled for Life Memorial (AVDLM) in Washington, the first such memorial of its kind, and is among the first national memorials in recent history not to be formally accepted in person by a sitting U.S. president.

Declined ALS Ice Bucket challenge



*Bush:*
Jogged with wounded veterans in 2006

Would stay in Washington until after Christmas, so that his staff could be home with their families

Fulfilled Amputee veteran's wish, and invites him to the White House to jog with him 2007

Went biking with wounded warriors in 2012, and 2013 at Wounded Warrior events

Dressed like Santa and brought presents to kids in the Hospital without telling anyone.

Participated in ALS ice bucket challenge

Made multiple surprise visits to troops in Iraq

Has sent over 4,000 personal letters the the families who lost loved ones in the War

Dances with Wounded Warrior at one of his bi-weekly picnics at Ft. Hood

2001 he stood up in the House chamber and asked for $15 billion to be donated towards helping Africa and the Caribbean ‘turn the tide of aids’. During his term in office, the cost of antiretrovirals, medication for the treatment of HIV, dropped from $4000 to $125 a course. The number of Africans on the medication went from 50,000 to 2.1 million









And on and on and on and on. Bush, although not the best president we have had by any means, I really disliked some of what he did, has always been a very compassionate, classy man. The same can not ever be said about Obama, with any solid foundation of facts or experiences. In my opinion.


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## fadeaway (Sep 27, 2014)

Emotional arguments persuade me the most. Logical arguments are just a burden and a way of following a set of rules. To me, logical arguments are there to be followed while I worry about my own emotional fuzz, and look for something nice to eat.


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