# INTP or ISTP?



## hazzacanary (Mar 28, 2012)

Hello everyone, I hope you can help me with this.

Basically, I've done quite a few tests, and they all show me to be borderline S/N, but my more-experience brother reckons I'm more N than S (and hence why my profile says INTP for the moment...). I'm fairly new to this, but is there a way to try and work out which I am, or should I just classify myself as IxTP?

[FYI, just checked mypersonality.info and I was 53/47 S/N!]


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

hazzacanary said:


> should I just classify myself as IxTP?


Please don't. There's no such thing as borderline. ISTP and INTP are very different.


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## hazzacanary (Mar 28, 2012)

Era said:


> Please don't. There's no such thing as borderline. ISTP and INTP are very different.


please enlighten me: I'm new to this, and the help would be very much appreciated!


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

There's a set of questions here: 
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/42375-whats-my-type-form.html

You don't have to answer all of them, just use them as a starting point to talk a bit about yourself. You gotta talk if you want to get typed


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

I think people get to hung up on the actual letter in their type versus not education themselves on the cognitive processes. They truly are the foundation to typing. Focusing in on the first four cognitive processes are key.

An ISTP is: Ti, Se, Ni, Fe

An INTP is: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe 

Do you see how the core of the types are different? Yet the beginning and ending cognitive processes are the same? ISTPs and INTPs appear to be similar from afar but are starkly different up close.

What are cognitive process? They are the functions (N, S, T, F) with attitude preferences (I & E). The whole type, for example, I S T P will determine which order the cognitive processes will be in. 

Here are definitions from cognitiveprocesses.com 

An INTP looks like this: 
Ti : - *Introverted Thinking* often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles.
These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea.
This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work.
The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency.
In so doing, we search for a "leverage point" that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system.
We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what's observed.

Ne - *Extraverted iNtuiting* involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone's behavior really means.
It also involves seeing things "as if," with various possible representations of reality.
Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true.
This is like weaving themes and threads together.
We don't know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand.
Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.

Si - *Introverted Sensing* often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones.
The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn't taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience.
With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes.

Fe - The process of *extraverted Feeling* often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure.
The "social graces," such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling.
Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh, and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling.
Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others.
We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves.
This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them.
Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others' feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs.
We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and social norms to get along. 


ISTP looks like - 

Ti - as defined above

Se - *Extraverted Sensing* occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail.
We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result.
We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context.
An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention.
Extraverted Sensing is operating when we freely follow exciting physical impulses or instincts as they come up and enjoy the thrill of action in the present moment.
A oneness with the physical world and a total absorption may exist as we move, touch, and sense what is around us.
The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence.

Ni - *Introverted iNtuiting* involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level.
Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us.
A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden "Aha!" or "That's it!" The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future.
Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform.
We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs.
This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal.
It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.

Fe - As defined above



I suggest you do more research on this so as to help you further understand how to type yourself  
Here is my video to help with cognitive processes  http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/70136-beginners-cognitive-processes.html

also, don't forget to check out the threads on explanations on cognitive processes in the Announcement section of this site


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## hazzacanary (Mar 28, 2012)

thanks for everything so far - I guess I've got some reading to do!


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## hazzacanary (Mar 28, 2012)

Era said:


> There's a set of questions here:
> 
> You don't have to answer all of them, just use them as a starting point to talk a bit about yourself. You gotta talk if you want to get typed


) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

nothing really, just that I dont know the system that well, and the online tests were pretty inconclusive on my N/S function

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
hmm. I don't really have an overbearing sense of what want to do with my life.

3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.
Actually quite recently, when some people I respect a lot as musicians seemed genuinely impressed at the jazz music I was playing! 

4) What makes you feel inferior?
being proven wrong at something, in general doing badly at an activity (e.g. a test, or some sort of musical performance)

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
I don't really consider people's feelings (and have made people very angry by doing so!) and am definitely more of a pro/con (for myself) person. I don't really worry about my feelings when 

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? 
I can't think of a time when I've just had loads of fun... The closest I've ever been is maybe a few moments when I've been playing jazz, and really enjoy it. My memory then is pretty good of the sights (in third and first person!) but I cant rememeber what I improvised in my solos.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)
I am very good at just memorizing stuff, whether that means a piece of music (I have perfect pitch, and can perfectly recall a piece), or a formula or statistic.

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?
Chaotic! I normally leave everything to the last minute, and seemingly forget to do stuff for people even if reminded by them recently! I have the record for having the largest numebr of "lates" for any student in my year!

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
I would look for information to justify it.

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?
A mixture of both - I don't like to see people on their own (mainly because I've been there before) and will make a conceited effort to get them talking about something. That said, I don't really fit in to any particular group, and try to be the same person around everyone.

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
I'm much better at one-to-ne communication; In a group situation, I'll often break it down around me so I'm only speaking to 1 or 2 people. I normally speak before thinking, unless I'm being held from speaking (like in an orderly debate). Then. I'll carefully prepare a response to a question, or attack on someone's ideas.

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
Actions certainly seem to speak louder than words to many people, but I am not very good at going through with what I talk about. Sometimes I just get started and jump right in, but when I've been told to plan, I do (like for essays. I usually spend too long planning though, and with lots of crossing-out)

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
I wouldn't really be going for a night out or watching tv! I'd probably just game at home, as the chances are there'd be a reason not to go out (too much work, not enough money, no transport etc). Very often, I actually play games with friends (in fact, I'm playing minecraft with them atm)!

15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
I don't really get stressed much. If I do, I tend to be either very silent and sullen, and will snap at people when they talk to me.

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?
"Fakeness" - I hate superficial personalities, or people who are callous/cruel for no apparent reason. 

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?
All my geeky pleasures - music (especially jazz and percussion), gaming, computers, maths/physics, programming. I'm pretty poor at small talk, and like to discuss areas of personal interest.

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life
socialising really. I hardly ever go out at the weekend.

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?
I hope my friends would hold nothing back from me - they know I prefer honesty over anything else, as I'm difficult to insult. Those who know me well would probably percieve me as fairly poor socially, although I mean well. They would probably think of me as very logical, and not very emotional. I'd say they were pretty much dead on with that as well!

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
gaming. probably listen/write/transcribe/play jazz/drums at some point during that as well, but all at home. I might go out if it was to a gig.


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## fishphlem (Oct 11, 2011)

INTP more so than ISTP...
No mention of Se at all.


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## hazzacanary (Mar 28, 2012)

fishphlem said:


> INTP more so than ISTP...
> No mention of Se at all.


I think you're right - reading the function descriptions, I definitely fit Si more than Se. Looks like I am INTP after all, despite what my sig says!


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Clearly ITP, I think more ISTP at this point though.... I see some tendencies of Se style immersion. 

This thread is one of many that might help you see the difference http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/83716-se-vs-ne-am-i.html


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## hazzacanary (Mar 28, 2012)

ok, I just tried a technique mentioned in another thread on this area, where you answer each question with the opposite of your true response, and then reverse the result as well. The "wrong" test gave me ENFJ, which would convert back into INTP...


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

I think you meant the opposite of 'ENFJ' is ISTP?

Anyway, my personal opinion would be neither, and instead maybe an ISTJ.
I don't really see Ti/Fe anywhere.

Neither, do I see any mention of perceiving things as anything other than they are, which is what N people are more inclined to do.

There seems to be a lot of attention to detail and focusing on things you have experienced:
"reading the function descriptions, I definitely fit Si more than Se."
"I am very good at just memorizing stuff, whether that means a piece of music (I have perfect pitch, and can perfectly recall a piece), or a formula or statistic."
"I would look for information to justify it."
"All my geeky pleasures - music (especially jazz and percussion), gaming, computers, maths/physics, programming."
"A mixture of both - I don't like to see people on their own (mainly because I've been there before) and will make a conceited effort to get them talking about something."

The last one seems to suggest you act based directly on your own experience. And regard the other person as having the same feelings as you do. Which suggests Fi instead of Fe.

""Fakeness" - I hate superficial personalities" <-Fi is sometimes more concerned with authenticity, while Fe is sometimes more inclined to be putting on social masks to get on with people.

"being proven wrong at something" <-may suggest Si dominance if your life is based on regarding what you've experienced as true and thus coming undone if it seems things are otherwise.
ITPs are more inclined to feel inferior around interpersonal relationships, since their dominant function, Ti, is centred around looking at things impersonally.

Anyway, I'm not convinced you are an ISTJ, but I tend to think you are more S than N


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## hazzacanary (Mar 28, 2012)

alionsroar said:


> I think you meant the opposite of 'ENFJ' is ISTP?
> 
> Anyway, my personal opinion would be neither, and instead maybe an ISTJ.
> I don't really see Ti/Fe anywhere.
> ...


That's helpful; thanks! 

I would agree that I am probably ITP. Still though, no-one seems to be able to definitively say that I'm S or N. In terms of relating to the sterotypical profiles, I would relate more to INTP than ISTP or ISTJ.


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm leaning towards INTP. I don't think you're Si-dominant, but tertiary Si seems likely.

What else can you tell us about yourself? And how old are you?


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

renna said:


> Ni - *Introverted iNtuiting* involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level.


I think that is a fairly poor definition of Ni.

But I guess this latter part is better:



> We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs.
> This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal.


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## hazzacanary (Mar 28, 2012)

Era said:


> I'm leaning towards INTP. I don't think you're Si-dominant, but tertiary Si seems likely.
> 
> What else can you tell us about yourself? And how old are you?


Well what do you mean? I'm male, 16 (17 in a couple of weeks)


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

hazzacanary said:


> Well what do you mean? I'm male, 16 (17 in a couple of weeks)


Tell some random anecdotes, ideas, feelings, opinions. Stream of consciousness is the best for deciding between N and S, I find.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

Post a video, if you really want to know.

From the questionnaire, all the interest in music and precussion (with perfect pitch), in memorizing, and in looking for "information" to justify ideas seemed to indicate ISTP. The geeky interest in physics could perhaps be INTP, but ISTP seems more likely.


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## Obsidian (Aug 10, 2011)

hazzacanary said:


> That said, I . . . try to be the same person around everyone.


Also, that is arguably non-INTP.

And furthermore, none of your answers strikes me as _sounding_ very INTPish, i.e. not going out of your way to sound different and creative. Also, you haven't mentioned any classic INTP symptoms, such as an obsession with Star Wars.


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

Obsidian said:


> From the questionnaire, all the interest in music and precussion (with perfect pitch), in memorizing, and in looking for "information" to justify ideas seemed to indicate ISTP. The geeky interest in physics could perhaps be INTP, but ISTP seems more likely.


I agree that ISTP is possible, but can't say for sure yet. Supporting ideas with "information" is not specific enough... sensors love facts, but INTPs do like to back up their opinions with reliable references (an Si trait?) Also memorizing is more Si than Se, I think. Generally speaking.

You're right that our friend doesn't "sound" typically INTPish, but then again he doesn't sound typically ISTPish either. He may have yet to develop his auxiliary, whether it's Se or Ne. Not uncommon...


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