# Awe/Bafflement Theory



## myresearch (Apr 4, 2017)

According to this theory, each type is awed by the type that is two integration lines ahead of it and each type is baffled by the type that is two disintegration lines ahead of it.

Type 1 is baffled by type 2 and awed by type 5
Type 2 is baffled by type 5 and awed by type 1
Type 5 is baffled by type 1 and awed by type 2


Type 3 is baffled by type 6 and awed by type 9
Type 6 is baffled by type 9 and awed by type 3
Type 9 is baffled by type 3 and awed by type 6

Type 4 is baffled by type 8 and awed by type 7
Type 7 is baffled by type 4 and awed by type 8
Type 8 is baffled by type 7 and awed by type 4

As a type 5, I think that I can be awed by type 1s and baffled by type 2s and vice versa, it depends on the person. I also think that I can be more balanced by learning from these two types. 

What do you think about types in your bafflement group? Do you think that you are baffled/awed by them and if so why?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Gonna call out bullshit on this. Types that baffle me are typically 1s, 3s and maybe 6s, depending. I don't understand the idea of awe in general, as it builds on an idea of idealization and admiration towards someone or something else, which suggests a sense of innate inferiority, especially in terms of image. I don't do this towards people in general so I don't understand why I'd feel that way towards a specific type, either. I mean, I don't see what would be so special about 4s and I don't think anyone type is special in general and something to strive to be. 

I also think there's a danger in generalizing a feeling towards an entire cluster of types like this, as opposed to seeing it as an expression of that particular person's individuality. There will be 4s you respect, but there will also be 4s that you hate.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

I can think up reasons why I'd be baffled by type 3 and awed by type 6, but I could think up a reason why I would be awed and/or baffled by _any_ other type, as well. It's confirmation bias.


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

Did you just make this up or is it actually based on something?


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

> What do you think about types in your bafflement group? Do you think that you are baffled/awed by them and if so why?


Doesn't work out for me; in fact, it seems half-backwards. I'm probably more likely to be baffled by 2s than awed.


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## myresearch (Apr 4, 2017)

Entropic said:


> Gonna call out bullshit on this. Types that baffle me are typically 1s, 3s and maybe 6s, depending. I don't understand the idea of awe in general, as it builds on an idea of idealization and admiration towards someone or something else, which suggests a sense of innate inferiority, especially in terms of image. I don't do this towards people in general so I don't understand why I'd feel that way towards a specific type, either. I mean, I don't see what would be so special about 4s and I don't think anyone type is special in general and something to strive to be.
> 
> I also think there's a danger in generalizing a feeling towards an entire cluster of types like this, as opposed to seeing it as an expression of that particular person's individuality. There will be 4s you respect, but there will also be 4s that you hate.


I don't like the idea of idealization either but not because it suggests a sense of innate inferiority, because it suggests to me a sense of distorted perception. Something/someone else doesn't have to be special or uniqe. I don't identify admiration/appreatiation with idealization. I agree your second paragraph word by word, that's why I also said that it depends on the person. 

@charlie.elliot, yes, I agree. I can be baffled and/or awed by any type. However, when I read it, I only thought about type 1 and type 2. It is probably confirmation bias as you said. 

@Kito No, it is from Vollmar's book. I didn't read the book because this theory didn't click with me. I wanted to see what everybody else thinks.
@Benty Fagatronicus My mother is type 2. I love her, but I don't admire her. I am baffled by her, so I understand.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Well, it does work for me! I idealize 1s the most of any type and 5s are just...confusing
Don't feel like they're awed by me though, don't know too many but I think the tendency is slightly irritated dismissal lol


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

This theory floats around a lot and is brought up from time to time, but I have to be honest and say I neither agree with is, nor do I really understand what the basis for it is. There isn't anything I can think of in the theory that would cause such a reaction. It seems to me like another one of those pseudo theories, like JCF loops and such where someone makes one observation and sides with geometric symmetry over having an actual rationale. 

Taking that one step further, I don't think the enneagram has much to do with patterns between type to type interactions in general. People have individual preferences that may stem from their type, but I don't see a wide-stretching theory, or any key basis in the enneagram theory to predict how the types will respond to each other. 

Personally - no, not really "awed" by 5's at all. 4's _*really*_ baffle me, 3's somewhat awe me in certain ways, and 5's are in with 9's and 8's in just generally pissing me off and triggering my temper. Not all 5's do it, but there is a definite number of 5's who have this air of intellectual superiority that draws my attention to their lack of action and notice that they know a lot about a little, look like they think a lot of themselves but only really think little, take a lot of time and exception for themselves but give only a little, and actually _do_ very little. I have that triggered annoyance with them. Sometimes it's unfair to them and unduly harsh to judge them that way, but I have to make a concerted effort to backtrack to stop it.


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

Being a 1 who has lived in close quarters with a 2 and a 5 I can attest that this works.

I've actually come to see this "bafflement" pattern to be similar to Socionics "supervision" relation where one person puts the other on a bit of a pedestal (the "awe"), while the other person doesn't view them as interesting, but nevertheless could be protective of them out of reciprocation. 

Tracing the integration-disintegration lines, you thus get 2 'supervision-like' rings working within the Enneagram: first one is 1->5->2->1 and second one is 4->7->8->4. These two rings include all of the 'secondary' enneagram types: 1,2,4,5,7,8. The 'primary' enneagram types 3-6-9 seem to have those relationships within their own integration-disintegration ring.



myresearch said:


> What do you think about types in your bafflement group? Do you think that you are baffled/awed by them and if so why?


Well I can only speak for 1->5 relationship. The "awe" here comes from 5s having the kind of mental flexibility, agility, and breadth, that the hyper-focused action-oriented 1s never develop because the enneagram mission of 1s moves them in different direction. The action-oriented bearing of 1s needs a compensation - if you act, you need to know _how to act_, but if you're acting all the time this leaves little room for mental wanderings. Thus there is some kind of psychological mechanism or need embedded into 1s that manifests as a "desire to be informed" or "desire for information" which 5s can fulfill better than most other types (this is similar to supervisor covering for weakest point in the psyche of supervisee in socionics). Thus, the 5 acts as an informant for type 1. As a side effect, this "desire to be informed" leads many 1s mistype themselves as 5s: they believe this need for information that they experience makes _them_ the "knowledge-seekers" ie 5s, making 1-5 mistype a common one.

As for 2s, they don't particularly baffle me. I have noticed that they are drawn to me and that they do seem to put me on a bit of a pedestal, while I don't see them as interesting, so our relationship has some tints of asymmetry, similar to supervision or benefit. I think "bafflement" may be an inaccurate term for this. My relations to them acquire more of parent-child kind of undertones. For some reasons I see feel and perceive them like children, even in cases when by their biological age they could be my grandparents.


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

Nissa Nissa said:


> Well, it does work for me! I idealize 1s the most of any type and 5s are just...confusing
> Don't feel like they're awed by me though, don't know too many but I think the tendency is slightly irritated dismissal lol


Ya, could you explain why you idealize 1s? I get this from 2s a lot as a 1, and have no idea what I did to deserve this! xD


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## lunallee (Apr 17, 2020)

I’m a 4 and have noticed my dynamics with 7s and 8s. I think that the type who is being awed by sees the other as having something they lack. So for example I tend to put sevens on a pedestal, because they have the charm and social skills that we as 4s feel that we lack. They express everything that we may be thinking inside with everyone else. I do tend to become baffled by 8s and they start to annoy me about, but they are still fun and cute to be around. The attraction I feel towards 8s is I see them as mysterious and hiding their true self. This is more with the te dom 8s I know…the fe dom 8s were rather more expressive, and I don’t get along with them very well because of my fi. I like the mystery of te and how they don’t tell much about themselves. I think the reason they like 4s is because we inhabit our inner world as totally and confidently as they navigate their outer one constantly.
I did read that these kind of relationships can be toxic…because one person is putting the other on a pedestal, and the other person doesn’t always want to reciprocate back, thus it’s one sided at times.


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