# What does so-last look like for you?



## JFrombaugh (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm still trying to pin down my core-type and tritype myself, and I've got it narrowed down to either 459 or 469, with 4w5 or 9w1 being my core type.

As for instinct stacking, even though Introversion is the most powerful preference in my MBTI personality, whenever I've taken detailed Enneagram tests such as Night Queen's, for some reason many posters have often pegged me as NOT being an so-last, and maybe even an so-dom, based on the answers I gave to the custom questions.

But I am almost 100% convinced that I am an so-last, and here's why:

-As far back as elementary & middle school, I remember that many teachers and family members were often struck by the difference between the way many students participated in extracurricular activities with pride, while I seemed to pretend that school clubs and the like didn't exist. I have never really understood the point of things like "school spirit", and whenever somebody like a teacher or a family member suggested that I join [insert random club or organization] to meet some people who share that interest, I would just look at them like a freak and think to myself that it'd just be a waste of my time and energy.

-I have joined a few clubs over the course of my lifetime, whenever I've felt it would be worth my while, but my motive for doing so was never to become a "part of the group". For instance I joined the Geology Club at my old university, but mostly I was interested in a couple of the guest speakers and kind of orbited at the edge of the group itself, but never desired to be truly accepted as "one of us".

-Although I try to be polite to others as much as possible in conversation on account of wanting to be considerate of their feelings, all too often if I'm in a group setting I will find that it's simply impossible for me to keep up with the pace of the conversation and just go into a stupor of having no idea what these people are talking about as the conversation drifts to some superficial topic like shopping, pets, what Mr. X did with his BFF last weekend, etc. In a one-on-one situation on the other hand, I can be surprisingly sociable with the other person despite my Introversion, and talk about all kinds of passions and deep thoughts.

-I've also tended to underestimate the importance of networking to find a job, tending to feel that it's more of a matter of luck and being in the right place at the right time. Even when I do try to network to increase my odds, I tend to home in on those specific people who I got to know well, and would therefore trust enough to become a strong reference in my next job search, and the like - rather than trying to create a social safety net as such.

I'm still not 100% sure of my Enneatype, but this is basically why I think that I am definitely sp/sx or sx/sp, whatever combination I am. 

If you're so-last yourself, how does it manifest for you?


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

It manifests for me in similar ways to what you describe. It's a what's the point attitude. I'm not getting what I want from it. Even though I know it has it's advantages like networking, it's just hard to care about it.


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## Vive (Nov 11, 2013)

Interesting, I don't think what you are saying here has to be SO-last per sé, I will use myself as an example:

I personally don't feel like I measure my identity in ways that make me refer to my group memberships. I generally feel disconnected from any sort of group. Feelings like pride for your own country, or feeling a real connection to a group, club or whatever simply are alien to me, I can understand them, but I don't what it's like to really feel those. Besides that, I have a dislike for networking and I'm not the best at navigating groups either. In the end, I focus on individuals, not groups.

I do pay a lot of attentions to individuals, a strong connection with someone is not a necessity, as long as there is some form of connection. I pay careful attention to those people, to make sure they are doing okay, and check up on them from time to time.

What happens to me often is that I feel some kind of societal pressure (_Which in truth, of course, is really just generated by me)_ to go out and work so that I don't feel I'm using up other people's resources, while I'm not gathering my own. I fear very much to be looked upon unfavorably by certain individuals, but I am not afraid of being looked upon unfavorably by just anyone. I am only really afraid of the judgement of those people I chose to care about. In the end I'm focused on whether I'm doing enough for people or society in general; which in turn makes me very focused on social dynamics, but just not in the way the descriptions pose. 

Since the social focus seems to be my main focus and a source of much potential guilt -- I consider it to be my dominant instinct. SX is something I relate to, but I suppose it's a bit tuned down, connection is important, but it's not really an intense 'either I like you or I really just don't'' kind of thing, nor is it a strong obsession or really strong focus on relating to that person. I love being connected, and merging and I do consider it as an important and essential aspect in any kind of real friendship, but it's just not my main focus or source of concern. As for SP, I make sure my needs get taken care of, I take care of myself and make sure I'm doing okay, but that's about it, if I start feeling social related guilt, or I feel really connected, I tend to forget about practical stuff really quickly and I also am completely unmotivated by the prospect of more material gain; I dislike the plain practical stuff. If I don't feel that I am engaged or doing/working (for) something I believe in, I might as well just stop there, because it's not going to _work_ for me (pun intended ).

_I'm not sure what would happen if my financial situation were to be really dire, my life experience is too limited for that. So, what I said was more in light of a relatively stable financial situation._

IMHO, In the end, what would make someone SO-last is if their main focus lies strongly on (and they are motivated by) Utilitarity and connection with others and that there will be a lack of energy for and very little attention to the social sphere and social dynamics and where you stand exactly with society or people in general. A lack of focus doesn't necessarily mean a lack of care for something, it merely means that you have a tendency to spend your focus and energy in other areas.


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## JFrombaugh (Feb 10, 2010)

@*Vive*

You're not the first person to tell me I'm not necessarily an so-last.

To further clarify, I think one of the biggest reasons why I have never really been drawn into "groups" is because I really dislike the way a lot of people tend to get an "I'm better than you" attitude about being part of a club. It's as if somehow everybody in a specific social circle feels like they know more and better than everyone else, and this can cause them to get biased towards one general opinion through that GroupThink phenomenon - for example, not everyone in the Sierra Club believes that mountain bikers are EEEEVIL and destroy trails and wilderness areas, but a whole bunch of them do.

A better example for me more recently is how I approached World of Warcraft when I played it. I enjoyed being a healer in a group, and felt like the healer classes best suited my personality in many ways lore wise. But the thing was, I couldn't stand being in endgame guilds because of their often crude and practical approach to the game. Basically I didn't like having to worry about what the leader expected me to bring to the table, rather than just being free to spec how I wanted.

There's obviously plenty of nice folks who play MMOs, but the arrogant pricks are the ones who give the online gaming community that bad name. To the point that many people are ashamed even to admit to their friends that they play WoW or some other MMO.

Oh, and about a month ago I went to a career conference to help me start with the whole networking thing. I did feel that it was definitely worth my while to go, but I pretty much just homed in on a few speakers who caught my eye and got business cards from them specifically, and didn't stick around for any of the social mixer events with games and raffle drawings and stuff like that.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

The best explanation I have ever heard of the instincts went as such: 

- Social instinct is a heightened awareness of mechanical energy. You see how the gears fit together, how when one piece rotates, it meshes with other pieces that rotate, and so on. You see which gears are large and which are small. You see that everything affects everything. You are concerned about your place in the grand design because you know that you are affecting others and you are affected by others. 

- Sexual instinct is a heightened awareness of chemical energy. You see where reactions could or do take place between people or between people and their interests. You see what/who is attracted to what/who, what/who is repulsed by what/who. You know which reactions are strong and which ones are weak. You are concerned about finding the best quality reactions because you know that they make the difference between you being alive and infused with energy or painfully seeking. 

- Self-pres instinct is a heightened awareness of potential energy. It's about whether you have the fitness/capacity to do something. You see if you have enough resources (including internal resources like self-control, skills, motivation) to function well in your environment. You see if you have the right resources, or if you need to adjust your resources. You see if other people have more or less resources, and how they are more or less capable as a result. You are concerned about your capability because you know it expands or limits your ability to accomplish your desires in life.

So then you have the stackings: 

Self-pres/Social: Uses understanding of impact of interactions to help increase capability and resources.
Self-pres/Sexual: Uses understanding of quality of connections to help increase capability and resources. 
Sexual/Self-pres: Uses understanding of fitness to help increase high quality connections.
Sexual/Social: Uses understanding of impact of interactions to help increase high quality connections.
Social/Self-pres: Uses understanding of capacity and fitness to help increase positive interactions. 
Social/Sexual: Uses understanding of quality of connections to help increase positive interactions. 

I don't see a particular reason to say you're not Soc-last, but I don't see one to say you are, either. A lot of what you've listed can be impacted by introversion and being an NF. Your last insight about the "better than" thing is actually a fairly Social observation. The thing about the instincts is, it's not about what you _like_; it's about what you _perceive_. Socials see social interactions, social currency, patterns of give and take, influence, and so on. Even being a Soc/Sx, I actually hate and avoid networking (this may in part be an Sp-blind thing - I have absolutely no idea _how_ to use people as resources), but I do naturally tend to see who people gravitate to, who calls the shots, the tensions between people, and so on.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

1. I suck at networking and most people don't spark my interest anyways.
2. Bad at small-talk.
3. I reject group activities and people in groups kinda suck. As individuals people are fine but in a group? People can get kinda dogmatic and you start to notice things like a hierarchy within the group. Just look at any fan group. It ends up making me sick, I've been banned on plenty of forums for stupid sh*t.
4. I can be uncouth, I'm not good at social niceties. I forget to say hello and stuff like that and just get to the point or I'm just too laxed.
5. I'm bad at keeping in touch with people and knowing what's going on in their lives. 
6. I only have a few close friends I really care about.
7. I can be really disagreeable.


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## Stellafera (Jan 19, 2015)

angelfish said:


> Sexual instinct is a heightened awareness of chemical energy.* You see where reactions could or do take place between people or between people and their interests. You see what/who is attracted to what/who, what/who is repulsed by what/who. You know which reactions are strong and which ones are weak.* You are concerned about finding the best quality reactions because you know that they make the difference between you being alive and infused with energy or painfully seeking.


This makes me think of Socionics Fi more than anything, maybe a little Se too.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

JFrombaugh said:


> There's obviously plenty of nice folks who play MMOs, but the arrogant pricks are the ones who give the online gaming community that bad name. To the point that many people are ashamed even to admit to their friends that they play WoW or some other MMO.


Yeah I'm not sure about So-last based on this, because thing is you're still focusing a lot on So things. I think an So-last can struggle to even be fully aware of these things in the first place.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

angelfish said:


> - Social instinct is a heightened awareness of mechanical energy. You see how the gears fit together, how when one piece rotates, it meshes with other pieces that rotate, and so on. You see which gears are large and which are small. You see that everything affects everything. You are concerned about your place in the grand design because you know that you are affecting others and you are affected by others.
> ...
> I actually hate and avoid networking (this may in part be an Sp-blind thing - I have absolutely no idea _how_ to use people as resources), but I do naturally tend to see who people gravitate to, who calls the shots, the tensions between people, and so on.


I'm always surprised by people noticing other people, let alone _using_ other people. Not many "use" maliciously, or even consciously, but so many do regardless. And noticing... It just baffles me why that would be even on their radar. I'm not saying this as a "lol what sheep" against SOC, just that every time people bring it up it's like, "...oh yeah, most people do that regularly." I actually have to go out of my way to "study" sociological effects, quite literally... I find it (or, maybe more accurately, anthropology, I'm not entirely sure) fascinating since it's almost like a different language. And I like languages.



Remnants said:


> Yeah I'm not sure about So-last based on this, because thing is you're still focusing a lot on So things. I think an So-last can struggle to even be fully aware of these things in the first place.


Exactly. The stuff @JFrombaugh is describing literally doesn't occur to me. It might not necessarily indicate SOC-first, but to me it doesn't indicate SOC-last. It's more "counter-SOC:" being against the groups one notices, for whatever reasons. 

I mean, I know those types of feelings exist because people talk about it, including my friends, but in a vacuum I'm oblivious. For example, if I'm in a guild which is jerkish, my first thoughts aren't about the _group_ being jerkish, it's about how many of the individual members are jerks. I'm, simply, fundamentally not a part of any community: I play games but I'm not part of the "gamer community," I'm American but I've struggled to identify what "American culture" is, the idea of "[insert identity] pride" is entirely confusing to me, and so on.

The "blind spot" of SOC is really quite literal in my case. I can see how it might not be in some people, but more often than not people use SOC-last as a shorthand for being asocial or a distaste of politics.


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## Monadnock (May 27, 2017)

I'll just list two things: 

-being on personalitycafe overwhelms you because there's just so much to do that you don't know where to start, so often you underpost. same with any other ultra-dense social environment
-deep immunity to peer pressure and group think


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## Asd456 (Jul 25, 2017)

IMO, the first two works together in combination while the third is the weakest. 

My stacking is Sx/Sp and my focus of attention is narrow. I don't have the energy to keep track of all of the positive and/or negative reactions in the room (sounds exhausting). Instead, my attention is selective and intense. The "chemistry" awareness is selective because it pertains to an individual, a specific small group, a hobby, an interest, etc. 

With So last, I don't care about office politics, group cohesion, social norms and customs, etc. - if I engage my So, I feel awkward or inadequate.


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## JFrombaugh (Feb 10, 2010)

Well, if I'm not an so-last, then it sounds like I've still got a lot to learn about the Enneagram! :happy:

I always assumed that so meant more or less:

-Comfortable, even energized, by being in a room with a lot of people
-Being the "life and soul of the party"
-Able to easily make small talk with complete strangers
-Striving to be at all the right parties, join the right clubs, etc. in order to rub shoulders with the elite
-Going along with a group & embracing GroupThink 100%
-Using ostentation and name-dropping to hide an underlying sense of worthlessness; not being above "bathing in reflected glory"

Pretty much, I always thought that being so-dom meant, more or less, identifying very strongly with Types 2, 3, and 7 - regardless of what your Enneagram type actually is.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

JFrombaugh said:


> Well, if I'm not an so-last, then it sounds like I've still got a lot to learn about the Enneagram! :happy:
> 
> I always assumed that so meant more or less:
> 
> ...


Did you also think being SX meant being sex-crazed?


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## JFrombaugh (Feb 10, 2010)

@*Paradigm*

No. That was just my really bad attempt at a “You know you’re an so-dom when...” list.

EDIT: 
OK, time to settle this once and for all...I found this quiz for help with instinctual stackings, and what do you know, it seems I am indeed an sp/so - which means that you guys were right! Sorry about the misunderstanding. :tongue: 

Here's my questionnaire results for anyone who's interested: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...riant-test-final-version-30.html#post38744177


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## Monadnock (May 27, 2017)

Asd456 said:


> IMO, the first two works together in combination while the third is the weakest.
> 
> My stacking is Sx/Sp and my focus of attention is narrow. I don't have the energy to keep track of all of the positive and/or negative reactions in the room (sounds exhausting). Instead, my attention is selective and intense. The "chemistry" awareness is selective because it pertains to an individual, a specific small group, a hobby, an interest, etc.
> 
> With So last, I don't care about office politics, group cohesion, social norms and customs, etc. - if I engage my So, I feel awkward or inadequate.


As an sx/sp stacking myself, I heartily affirm every word of what you wrote.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

JFrombaugh said:


> @*Paradigm*
> 
> No. That was just my really bad attempt at a “You know you’re an so-dom when...” list.
> 
> ...


I commend you for recognizing your mistake and changing your ideas when you could have doubled-down and gotten stubborn. It's a very good trait to have, being able to adapt to new ideas/information. 

But the way you described SOC was like reading _every single_ incorrect idea one would have of it and made me facepalm; it's those stereotypes that result in so many thinking they're SOC-last (obviously), and it annoys me how common they are.

Anyways, I don't think you're SOC-last, and I have no reason to argue for or against SP/SO (or any variant) for you, but I wouldn't rely on any tests to type yourself. They can't "settle" anything, they can just give you an idea. Lord knows I never test as 6w7 or INTJ... I do test as SP/SX often enough, but I'm also pretty stereotypical in that regard, whereas I'm not with anything else (though it's debatable if I'm stereotypically SX-mid, it's more like I'm stereotypically SP-first and SOC-blind).


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## Viole (Aug 4, 2016)

It has taken me the better part of my life to nail down and figure out aspects of socializing that come so naturally to others, but I'm oblivious to with a SO blind spot. I could never understand why I never had close friendships at work among colleagues, when they were all buddies. Job after job after job.. and finally I figured it out! I'd say Hi here and there, and when my hormones were up I'd be more friendly, but the rest of the time I was just introverted and focused on work. I never had the sense or need or want for all the little comments and what not that creates the friendships and what not. Most of them weren't very adventurous/outdoorsy/musical/interesting.. aka they had nothing that activated my SX dominances, so .. they were just boring. Yes I wanted to be close to them, not not having children/car/spouse/house repairs, there was never anything I could relate to them with. And the big reveal to myself was realizing "Oh!!!! I'm suppose to be / need to be _interested _in these people.. aka the mundalities of their lives!" it was such a ridiculous, relief of a moment. I can not believe I hadn't realized it before. It never occurred to me to take an interest in who they were or their lives. So.. now i keep that more in mind. To be honest, I still find it a huge challenge, effort, and plain old bother to do all the little socializing at work. I feel like there is always SO MUCH to catch up on, I"m annoyed when my ( I swear SO/SO/ SO lol) colleague talks with everyone.. but it works for her. Every one in the office just loves her, will come up to talk to her, she just energizes everyone. I wish I could be like that. It's painful that I can't be. But I'm not in any way a natural conversationalist like she is, I try to learn from her. But most of the time, I just want the other poeple to shut up and go away, because the conversations seem to go on for 20 minutes.. sitting their gabbing to them abotu thier work. It's boring! 

Wonder if that helps at all..


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

angelfish said:


> The best explanation I have ever heard of the instincts went as such:
> 
> - Social instinct is a heightened awareness of mechanical energy. You see how the gears fit together, how when one piece rotates, it meshes with other pieces that rotate, and so on. You see which gears are large and which are small. You see that everything affects everything. You are concerned about your place in the grand design because you know that you are affecting others and you are affected by others.
> 
> ...


I like the three longer descriptions, although as a four the sexual description always sounds a lot like me. I appreciate the mention that “resources” for sp types are often more about inner resources. That’s why the sp 4 gets names like “the creative individualist”. And it’s associated with indulgence and carelessness with oneself when dominant in a 4, meaning they aren’t seeking security so much as willing to throw caution to the wind to establish their identity using their resources (ie most stereotypically their creativity or perhaps their depth of emotion and insight). It’s associated with a willingness to suffer for one’s “art”. 

Of course these nuances exist for other core types, so the main idea that resources are often not literal when self-pres is dominant needs to be stressed and I’m glad to see that it was mentioned. 

IMO, when you experience an instinct in a really simplistic way, that may be a sign it’s your blind spot. The simplistic view often reveals a kind of contemptuous attitude. It looks silly and simple, so you just can’t be bothered with it.

As a social last, I tend to view the social instinct as people who want to belong and care about groups, etc, but I realize when it’s the dominant instinct it’s more complex. Same goes for self-pres when it’s dominant. It’s no longer merely about the body and creature comforts. 

My social blind spot may not be obvious given I am involved in community. I do a volunteer work that has become central to my life. However, when younger, I was not interested in being involved in any organization. Belonging was not only NOT a desire, but neither was a lack of it even of my radar. I never had desire to change the world or affect others much or be a part of something bigger than myself. There’s a part of me that still finds this idea gross. 
I was mainly driven to self-express and bring to light my inner world. I’m not even going to try and defend the self-absorption in that statement, haha. I didn’t view it as a fascination with myself so much as a desire to manifest potential, which I sort of experience as having its own life. 
I only ventured into social spheres to try and find a mate. And that’s frankly still a major drive. I pretty much think I need to “participate” so I have more chances to meet a potential partner. I know deep down, once I find that person, I’m likely to retreat a bit socially even though it’s been very good for me to operate outside of my comfort zone. 
When I’m around people, it’s all about how individuals “react” to each other, how their internal states are affected. Picking up on their inner energy and seeing dynamics play out, but not knowing the social strategies theyre consciously employing has always left me with this intense knowing combined with utter ignorance. Like I can usually tell when people are secretly romantically involved. But I have little interest in politics, whether literal politics or referring to hierarchies that occur among people socially. Because that’s what the social stuff looks like to me: game-playing. And there’s that characteristic dismissed attitude toward one’s last instinct, haha.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> Of course these nuances exist for other core types, so the main idea that resources are often not literal when self-pres is dominant needs to be stressed and I’m glad to see that it was mentioned.


Me too - I see this clearly with my sp-dom husband. He _is_ good at keeping track of practical resources, but his focus is actually more on _internal_ resources. I actually understand my (sp/soc and sp/sx) parents much better as a result as well... my mom is an sp-first 2, and she often doesn't seem anything like 2 profiles... anyway... getting back to topic... 



> IMO, when you experience an instinct in a really simplistic way, that may be a sign it’s your blind spot. The simplistic view often reveals a kind of contemptuous attitude. It looks silly and simple, so you just can’t be bothered with it.


YES - this is an excellent observation. I get frustrated when I see people say "I'm soc-last because I don't like groups", because of course to me the social instinct is just so much more complex and nuanced than that. But absolutely - I do/would see sp like that too if I didn't have so many sp-doms in my family to observe. 



> Belonging was not only NOT a desire, but neither was a lack of it even of my radar. I never had desire to change the world or affect others much or be a part of something bigger than myself. There’s a part of me that still finds this idea gross.


Curiously, I think the drive to _change_ the world - leave your mark, etc. - might even be sx-driven, too. I experience a deep drive to "be a part" and to help things move in the "right" direction, but I don't feel much of a sense of it being important that it's me doing it as much as it's important that I'm involved, if that makes sense. It is not about me affecting others as much as me contributing positively. 



> I was mainly driven to self-express and bring to light my inner world. I’m not even going to try and defend the self-absorption in that statement, haha. I didn’t view it as a fascination with myself so much as a desire to manifest potential, which I sort of experience as having its own life.


FWIW as a soc-dom I find that a lovely statement. Lighting up yourself gives to others perhaps more than you realize. And I don't think it is mandatory for a person to give or anything like that... I don't see everyone as bound. But I do see everyone impacting one another and I think caring for your internal light inherently cares for everyone else's, too. 



> Like I can usually tell when people are secretly romantically involved.


What a great superpower, lol.



> But I have little interest in politics, whether literal politics or referring to hierarchies that occur among people socially. Because that’s what the social stuff looks like to me: game-playing. And there’s that characteristic dismissed attitude toward one’s last instinct, haha.


To be fair, it _is_ game-playing sometimes. Sometimes it is useful and good... people connecting with other people and organizing themselves in a way that helps contribute to an overall goal, like a school's many positions collaborating to make an effective learning environment for kids. If there's one place I've seen an inspiring collective effort despite off-putting politics it's in schools. I do think politics are kind of universally repulsive. I don't know anyone who is particularly fond of facades and power play, minus the few people at the top who are benefitting from them.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

I'm an sx/sp.

I don't know much about Enneagram and instincts, and basically just self-typed myself as sx/sp after reading up on them, haven't done any tests etc about it.

As I understood it, so was about.. society, feeling like you are a part of it, and wanting to be accepted by it - I pretty much just filled in the gaps from there, and in my head it would look like.. maybe wanting to keep up with office gossip etc so you know what's going on around you.. wanting to be praised for your good work, so you know you're doing well in that environment.. etc etc so you would see how all of 'society' is intertwined.

I use the word 'society' and I do intend it in it's general use, but I pictured So as also being more smaller-scale, ala the office gossip from above etc, because it's the whole thing that's connected, not just the bigger picture, it's the entire picture, knowing what's going on in your immediate community and the larger community, wanting to be involved with this.
I have no idea if there's like So types who are.. opposed to what I'm saying - like, they'd be So dominants but actually hate society - so they're still wanting to know what goes on, still massively aware of how it's all linked together, but they _oppose _it.

So these people would kind of be how we interpret Fe types to be - they'd be wanting to like.. rally the troups to make the community a better place.. or, rally the troups to prevent others from fucking things up.. goes both ways, in my head.. etc..

I basically ruled out So, as although I see how it's all connected, I don't care either way.
I don't want to be accepted. I don't want to be praised. I don't want to hear about any office-gossip etc (don't take this literally, I'm using it to refer to a smaller cog in a bigger clock). I don't need other people to let me know I'm doing well etc.

I just clicked with Sx massively, Sp after that, which left So last.
I wouldn't see myself as that.. "anti-So" kinda guy I described above, because I don't care enough - I think there would be So people who _do _care, they're just negative, not positive.


So as for how being So last looks like, I'm not sure I can really explain, because I don't know what I'm talking about, I just put the pieces together in my head.. the above is kinda what I think about it, hope it touches on it.

My apologies if I've gone miles away from what So actually is.


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