# How to tell between an 8 and a 6?



## Temizzle (May 14, 2017)

From my experience, you can just tell. 

A 6 will tend to look at a situation and think about how they can bolster themselves up to feel powerful to the situation. There is a nervous, powerless quality to them and a noticeable over-compensation for the fact. The plus side is that 6s are usually well-aware of how they are coming off to others.

An 8 will tend to look at the issues themselves and focus on those without realizing the force they are applying. The issue is once they take a stance on a decision they are locked-in and will often times go too far without realizing it.


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## classicism (Jan 1, 2017)

Temizzle said:


> From my experience, you can just tell.
> 
> A 6 will tend to look at a situation and think about how they can bolster themselves up to feel powerful to the situation. There is a nervous, powerless quality to them and a noticeable over-compensation for the fact. The plus side is that 6s are usually well-aware of how they are coming off to others.
> 
> An 8 will tend to look at the issues themselves and focus on those without realizing the force they are applying. The issue is once they take a stance on a decision they are locked-in and will often times go too far without realizing it.


I would say I tend to do the second more often than not. My friends have complained about me doing the second, saying I come at things more strongly than I intend and that I do take things too far.

I do the first one as well, but less so.


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

soft.cynosure said:


> @Sylas
> 
> I relate to some of that (troubleshooting, standing up for the underdog, and studying evil), but there are some parts I don't relate to. I rarely feel fear in what most people would describe as "fearful" situations. For example, I was in a four-car accident that resulted in one death and multiple injuries that required immediate surgery. I was not injured, but I had other passengers' blood on me and I was "so calm" that it was "concerning." I was sent to the hospital to check to see if I was in shock, and it was concluded that I was not. Whenever I'm in stressful situations, I'm usually calm and collected and I reason through what needs to be done. It usually gets on people's nerves. Is this a CP six thing? Reacting by refusing to be emotionally affected by other people involved and the situation at hand and instead, taking control and fixing it?
> 
> ...


There are some notes of 6, 9, and even 1 in this and of course Ti/Fe in the 4th paragraph. Not picking up on any 8 vibes so far.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Sylas said:


> There are some notes of 6, 9, and even 1 in this and of course Ti/Fe in the 4th paragraph. Not picking up on any 8 vibes so far.


Agreed. Sounds Competency to me, actually. 
Try looking into 1. I doubt you're 8.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

@soft.cynosure


You're looking at your own behaviors, which means you're starting to observe your own patterns, and that's great. However, that's not ultimately what's going to give you the answer you seek.

The types are fundamentally psychological patterns, not a series of characteristics or buzzwords you can compare yourself to. I went down that path, and just really screwed myself up for years trying to figure it out. One thing that helped me was to examine my inner experience and perceptions of life. Maybe that would work for you, too.

I don't really want to discuss the differences between cp6 and 8. This topic has been done to death, sometimes leads to bad comparisons, and basically focuses on superficial characteristics over the actual structure of a person's psyche. However, I will give you one nugget to think about.

If you are a 6 or 8, chances are you are plenty aware of people being complete douchebags, and you are attuned to the darker side of human nature. Does this ring true for you??

If so, I'd suggest you examine these perceptions. Do you regularly feel a sense of threat from others/something more abstract? That you're somehow vulnerable to attack, or that someone might do something in the future? Do you regularly feel like someone just did something assholic to you? Cheat you, disrespect you, wrong you in some way? That you should go kick their ass for it? Maybe none of these will apply to you, I don't know. But I'm interested in hearing what you think of this.


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

Brains said:


> From descriptions would think that an Eightish response would be to kill the wolves and a Sixish response to flee, no? Not so. Eight is primarily defined by a need to be _unaffected by the world_, not to boss it around or to be free from its demands like Fives want to. Some of the more fanciful treatments talk of them as knights for that reason - they'd be armored and just stand there among the wolves. The wolves can ruin their fangs on your plate all they want, and it won't do them any good. If that's not an option, put them down because that's what has to be done if you want to walk out of it alive.


One of type 9's primary coping mechanisms is to be unaffected by the world, by blocking it out. Both the external and the internal one. Types 8 and 1 are variations on this and put their own spin on it. 1 focuses on perfection, on a higher ideal, in order to block out the Id desires. 8 focuses on having power over their world, so that no Super-ego guilt controls them.

So when you say that type 8 is primary defined by a need to be unaffected, I disagree, because you are describing 9 here. Your description can be applied to the 8w9, but not so for the 8w7. A need to be in control of their world is paramount for the 8. Merely being unaffected doesn't cut it, though it can be used as _a strategy to obtain control_ (end-goal: control). Which is what many 8w9's are known for, but just as much the 9w8. Not the 8w7, however.

Being unaffected is primary a 9 strategy, and is means to a different end (control) for 8.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Temizzle said:


> From my experience, you can just tell.
> 
> A 6 will tend to look at a situation and think about how they can bolster themselves up to feel powerful to the situation. There is a nervous, powerless quality to them and a noticeable over-compensation for the fact. The plus side is that 6s are usually well-aware of how they are coming off to others.
> 
> An 8 will tend to look at the issues themselves and focus on those without realizing the force they are applying. The issue is once they take a stance on a decision they are locked-in and will often times go too far without realizing it.


This reminds me of something my husband once told me, about a documentary on bears that he saw.

" Bears almost never intend to harm humans. In the bear world standing on hind legs is considered very rude and will usually earn them a swat to the back of the head by another bear. It's like saying " Hey, not cool bro!" but to a human it's often fatal. This made me think of you have a hard time communicating with people and why they often misconstrue your intentions you don't mean to hurt anyone ( most of the time) you just don't realize that to a normal person a swat from you is like a giant bear-paw."

I think this is very applicable to eights in general.


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Fumetsu said:


> This reminds me of something my husband once told me, about a documentary on bears that he saw.
> 
> " Bears almost never intend to harm humans. In the bear world standing on hind legs is considered very rude and will usually earn them a swat to the back of the head by another bear. It's like saying " Hey, not cool bro!" but to a human it's often fatal. This made me think of you have a hard time communicating with people and why they often misconstrue your intentions you don't mean to hurt anyone ( most of the time) you just don't realize that to a normal person a swat from you is like a giant bear-paw."
> 
> I think this is very applicable to eights in general.


I agree about 8s 'not knowing their own strength' but I can see this applying to 6s as well, so many 6s react too much to perceived insults and I think, like 3s, 6s can be disconnected from how what they're doing is making people feel and they don't realize that _they_ are acting as the aggressor in a situation because they are so sure that they are the victim in a scenario or that someone else has bad intentions.

Bears have a very 6ish vibe to me in general haha


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

The Night's Queen said:


> I agree about 8s 'not knowing their own strength' but I can see this applying to 6s as well, so many 6s react too much to perceived insults and I think, like 3s, 6s can be disconnected from how what they're doing is making people feel and they don't realize that _they_ are acting as the aggressor in a situation because they are so sure that they are the victim in a scenario or that someone else has bad intentions.
> 
> Bears have a very 6ish vibe to me in general haha


Being overactive, defensive and constantly thinking your the victim is not remotely the same thing as not knowing your own strength.

i like that gif though.


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## classicism (Jan 1, 2017)

Lord Bullingdon said:


> If you are a 6 or 8, chances are you are plenty aware of people being complete douchebags, and you are attuned to the darker side of human nature. Does this ring true for you??


Definitely.



Lord Bullindon said:


> Do you regularly feel a sense of threat from others/something more abstract? That you're somehow vulnerable to attack, or that someone might do something in the future?


I rarely feel an actual sense of threat, probably because I smell bullshit real fast. Eight times out of ten, the person people are intimidated by is actually harmless, a nuisance at most. The other two times, I rarely have fights with that person, as we tend to get along or hold each other at arms' length with underhanded rivalry. When we do fight though, I don't feel threatened, just irritated. And that's what I feel when most people feel "threatened." I feel tested and challenged. If there's actual danger from another person, which I've experienced as I grew up in not the best of areas, I'm ready to go down swinging if need be, especially if people I love are at stake. It's less of feeling a threat to myself, and more like recognizing the threat to other people.

I don't really go through life feeling as if people are a threat to myself. If someone I don't have a previous relationship with gets on my radar enough to piss me off, it's because they tested me by either calling a truth about my integrity into question (flat out saying something bad about my character -- e.g. my capacity for loyalty, if I'm telling the truth, etc. -- to my face), threatening my loved ones, being disloyal, or committing an injustice. I have zero tolerance for any of those things, and I shut them down swiftly.



Lord Bullindon said:


> Do you regularly feel like someone just did something assholic to you? Cheat you, disrespect you, wrong you in some way? That you should go kick their ass for it? Maybe none of these will apply to you, I don't know. But I'm interested in hearing what you think of this.


Actually, yeah, but I probably bring it on myself. My friends and I have a joke about how everyone comes at me for anything, but my best friend said that she thinks it's because I'm really forceful about everything (I say "Hi; did you get that part of our project done?" and apparently it's "aggressive and micromanage-y"). I don't think I walk around combative, but I do think I'm a bit overwhelming sometimes, a little too forceful. It's definitely something I should work on. Nevertheless, it irritates me, although I usually try not to react too much unless a blatantly and intentionally offensive statement is made (even then, I try to remain respectful, and address the action instead of the person). If you have a problem with me, though, say it, instead of hiding behind an ego and pathetic, pissy attitude. Nothing's going to get better without communication. If you come to me with a complaint and valid evidence of when I acted a certain way, I am respectful and willing to listen. The person's willingness to communicate and stand up for themselves is something I admire.

Yeah, sometimes, I feel like I should take care of it, but also, sometimes I just decide they're not worth my time (but it still irritates me for awhile after -- residual anger with nothing to let it out on, I think).

Thanks for the questions. They were interesting.


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## Brains (Jul 22, 2015)

Daeva said:


> One of type 9's primary coping mechanisms is to be unaffected by the world, by blocking it out. Both the external and the internal one. Types 8 and 1 are variations on this and put their own spin on it. 1 focuses on perfection, on a higher ideal, in order to block out the Id desires. 8 focuses on having power over their world, so that no Super-ego guilt controls them.
> 
> So when you say that type 8 is primary defined by a need to be unaffected, I disagree, because you are describing 9 here. Your description can be applied to the 8w9, but not so for the 8w7. A need to be in control of their world is paramount for the 8. Merely being unaffected doesn't cut it, though it can be used as _a strategy to obtain control_ (end-goal: control). Which is what many 8w9's are known for, but just as much the 9w8. Not the 8w7, however.
> 
> Being unaffected is primary a 9 strategy, and is means to a different end (control) for 8.


I disagree some, in that even in the 8w7 it's twin engines running - a need to stand on your own two feet and a need to get satisfaction. That's how it is in the type in general, and I see the first as the prerequisite for the second: Anything's fine if you're in a position of strength and invulnerability. The unaffectedness is not of the same tone as a 9's which is more leave me alone, the tone is go take a stroll in a tornado and enjoy the wind. It won't move you. You're a rock, and an exuberant one at that. It's easy to go get satisfaction when that's the case. Or, how you feel a need to be and what you want to get.


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## Little Lady (May 12, 2017)

Aren't enneagram 6 and 8 completely different from each other? I am highly confused as to how you could confuse the 2.


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## Cataclysm (Mar 16, 2015)

Brains said:


> Ah, I probably didn't explain myself well, my bad. It's not that INFJ sx/sp wouldn't work as a combination - that's not the problem. It's just that INxJ sx/sp is a really appallingly common mistype so I inherently distrust that type combination whenever I see it. Basically just a reminder to be watchful on that part of the typing process, too, not just enneagram style. Not specifically criticism on the typing in your case, I don't have enough material to say one way or the other on that.


Why do you think it's common? Like, what are the common reasons they are mistyped?


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## Cataclysm (Mar 16, 2015)

citrusfizz said:


> Aren't enneagram 6 and 8 completely different from each other? I am highly confused as to how you could confuse the 2.


Do you know what counterphobic means? Whatever, you can google it. If a 6 is that some think it looks like an 8 because 8's are supposedly not very afraid of things.


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## Little Lady (May 12, 2017)

Cataclysm said:


> Do you know what counterphobic means? Whatever, you can google it. If a 6 is that some think it looks like an 8 because 8's are supposedly not very afraid of things.


Of course I know what it means. 

I understand that, but the way they both present themselves is a stark contrast.


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## Cataclysm (Mar 16, 2015)

citrusfizz said:


> Of course I know what it means.
> 
> I understand that, but the way they both present themselves is a stark contrast.


I guess a 6 could put on a persona of being strong and confident as a sort of defense mechanism.

I think someone went over the potential mix up in this very thread as well.


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## classicism (Jan 1, 2017)

citrusfizz said:


> Aren't enneagram 6 and 8 completely different from each other? I am highly confused as to how you could confuse the 2.


Because I typed as 5 when I first got into enneagram, matured a bit, became more assertive, less reclusive, less argumentative but more discerning when picking my battles, more sure in myself and didn't think I was a 5. I thought I was mistyped. I did some more reading, thought I might be a 1 for a little while, but the desires, fears, childhood description, path of integration, and some parts of the description were all off. I did even some more reading, and descriptions of CP6 semi-fit, but the fears and desires are off. I kind of just kept trying to avoid 8 whenever trying to figure out my type, because I'm an INFJ. CP6's and 8's can look the same, but their approaches and reasons why are different. Unfortunately, it's hard to be objective about oneself, especially when apparently, a lot of CP6's aren't aware of their anxiety, or so I've been told.


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## Brains (Jul 22, 2015)

citrusfizz said:


> Of course I know what it means.
> 
> I understand that, but the way they both present themselves is a stark contrast.


Because people don't quite get what 8s are like, and partly text descriptions say they are similar.


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## Rose for a Heart (Nov 14, 2011)

Also my experience has been that 8s are glad to find out they are that type. It makes them happy..."yup I'm an 8, I'm better than other types!" while 6s are more like "I'm not this type. How do you know the enneagram is correct? What is the enneagram anyway...is it a cult? Why do I HAVE to be this type, I don't need to be fit into this box..."

exaggerated a bit for comic effect though, I don't mean to offend


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Information I have gathered:



> Sixes and Eights are aggressive, although only the Eight is an entirely aggressive personality. Sixes react both to their fears and to other people and constantly oscillate from one state to another, from Level to Level. They are ambivalent and passive-aggressive, evasive, and contradictory. In contrast, Eights have solid egos and formidable wills; they keep pushing others until they get them what they want. There is little softness in Eights and even less tendency to comply with the wishes of anyone else. They have no desire to be liked or to ingratiate themselves with others. Rather than look to others for protection, Eights offer protection (patronage) in return for hard work and loyalty.
> 
> As different as these two types are, they are nevertheless similar at Level 6–but only at this Level. At this stage both Sixes (The Authoritarian Rebel) and in Eights (The Confrontational Adversary) show similar aggressive traits–belligerence, defiance, a willingness to intimidate others, a quick and threatening temper, the threat of violence, hatred of others, and so forth. However, Eights arrive at this stage as a result of constantly escalating their pressure on others to get what they want until they have become highly confrontational and combative. Sixes arrive at their state from a very different route–in reaction to their vacillation and dependency. Sixes become aggressive because they do not want to be pushed around anymore; Eights become aggressive to push others even more.
> 
> ...


Source: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/misidentifying-6-and-8


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

soft.cynosure said:


> So, I've been going back to tests, even though I usually try to stay away from them, because a lot of them are skewed.
> 
> However, I've been typing consistently as 8, usually with 2, 5, 1, or 3 following right after.
> 
> ...


The tests for enneagram are mostly bullshit. They give SOME ideas of where to start reading. You have enough self knowledge, and enneagram knowledge, the tests are now meaningless for you IMO.

It makes a LOT of sense you question whether you are 6 or 8. 

So, lets talk about disintegration, The VAST majority of 8's look inside and see where they disintegrate to 5. When we are beat up emotionally, and exhausted, maybe trapped, We pull back in, we research, we spend time on sites like this. We left reflect. We research about things.
The 2 connection is tough for some of us, but as I aged I could see it in my approach to wanting to actaully HELP others. 

If you are an 8, can you see how you turn 5ish when having a rough time of it?

If you are a 6, can you see connections to 9 and 3? 3 for me is a gimme. I do 3 stuff all the time. It is EASY for me to be a 3. So it is tempting to say I have a 3 connection. But I do NOT have 3 problems. I'm not worried about my image. I've already "completed" the 3 game, kind of when I was born. I don't have their hangups.
Likewise, 9 I don't relate to. I LIKE conflict. I like disagreements, I LIKE learning by disagreeing.

the 8 descriptions are geared to male ENTJ, ESTJ, and ESTP. You are female, and as an infj you are going to have a LOT of social skills. So, a lot of the descriptions are not going to apply to you. That's ok.

Stick to the core. When something goes wrong, do you amp up, get energized, and attack the problem? Or, when something goes wrong, do you pull back, and analyze it?

Go back to my dog description. What would you do?


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

drmiller100 said:


> Go back to my dog description. What would you do?


Don't think I agree about the dog example - I think there are plenty of 6s who would get angry - 6 tending to identify with the 'underdog' (ha) underscores that and...yeah
My dad for instance is a 6 for sure and he's pretty likely to call animal control if he thinks our neighbors are not treating their animals well, which isn't directly confronting, but I've also seen him yell at strangers for playing vulgar music too loud, specific example I remember but also if he thinks someone is acting cruelly, other 6s I know can be similar. And I'm sure there are plenty of 8s who WOULDN'T get angry esp considering culture etc

edit: Not really related to thread but for me as a 2...I see things and I want to interfere but my shame issues get in the way and I'm worried I'll be doing the wrong thing and people will judge me so I don't do anything, which is terrible.
I like disintegrating to 8 in some cases because I can cut right through that then)


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## classicism (Jan 1, 2017)

drmiller100 said:


> The tests for enneagram are mostly bullshit. They give SOME ideas of where to start reading. You have enough self knowledge, and enneagram knowledge, the tests are now meaningless for you IMO.
> 
> It makes a LOT of sense you question whether you are 6 or 8.
> 
> ...


Definitely, I see myself slip into 5-ish behavior when I'm just worn out. I tend to withdraw, think about the problem, enjoy solitude, study. My friends have told me that when I'm stressed, they don't see me because I'm studying, not even to meet deadlines. Just because I want to research, so I hole myself up.

I too, see connections to 3, as I take on challenges often, but it's not so much to gain the respect of others, but rather just to have the feeling of accomplishment, to have the feeling that I overcame. So quick and easy rewards don't do it for me. I have to _earn_ my success; there has to be some kind of adversity. It's not about the reward in itself, or even the praise for it; it's the fact that _I_ did it. It's the fact that I conquered. However, I don't see connections to 9. I do enjoy conflict: clears the air, gives a sense of overcoming, fixes problems efficiently (depending on the situation), strengthens relationships, etc. I've had people suggest 9w8 for me, but then right after they go, "Oh wait, not a 9. Too at ease with confrontation." And it's not that I hold my anger in, and then let it out. If I'm feeling upset or feel like something needs to be addressed, I'm going to do so right then. Doing otherwise, I feel dishonest and inauthentic.

In the dog description, obviously I would step in (and I have in similar situations), but is that really completely reliant upon enneagram?


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

I came across a pretty good example while on a walk earlier today.

To get to any number of my usual spots I cut through a field, then take a well-marked cement path behind the strip mall.

I got to the end of the path and saw that the _public path_ had been entirely fenced off for some private function.

Not okay.

Had no one been around I would have taken apart the fucking fence. Unfortunately the guys doing setup were standing right there ( I don't care if someone sees me openly defying them but they were close enough to have physically stopped me)
They were obviously watching me. I stared back and forced my way through the waist high foliage, literally trampling everything in my way and then climbed over the cement bench they couldn't fence off. Yeah, I scrapped my knees but Goddammit that was my _choice_. No one _made_ me do that.

It reminds me of something @drmiller100 said a while back, about the difference between 1 and 8's sense of justice; that an 8's sense of justice is much stronger when they see it as a larger entity picking on a smaller one.

The private event was for cyclists-this city has a serious hard-on for cyclists. They will bend over backwards and force everyone else out of way for them ( The apartment complex across the way is called " Peloton" for shit sake.) The community that I consider myself a part of has been disbanded and shown clearly they are not welcome. This took the situation from an unfortunate inconvenience to a personal slight.

While I was " the little guy" I was not a victim. It was a challenge that I accepted with the declaration that " No, _you_ will move or God help me I will defy physics and trample _you_.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Night's Queen said:


> Don't think I agree about the dog example - I think there are plenty of 6s who would get angry - 6 tending to identify with the 'underdog' (ha) underscores that and...yeah
> My dad for instance is a 6 for sure and he's pretty likely to call animal control if he thinks our neighbors are not treating their animals well, which isn't directly confronting, but I've also seen him yell at strangers for playing vulgar music too loud, specific example I remember but also if he thinks someone is acting cruelly, other 6s I know can be similar. And I'm sure there are plenty of 8s who WOULDN'T get angry esp considering culture etc
> 
> edit: Not really related to thread but for me as a 2...I see things and I want to interfere but my shame issues get in the way and I'm worried I'll be doing the wrong thing and people will judge me so I don't do anything, which is terrible.
> I like disintegrating to 8 in some cases because I can cut right through that then)


Respectfully, hell hath no fury such as a momma 2 who's kids are threatened. They turn 8, they are fucking mean, they get ANGRY. and when it is over, they are EXHAUSTED, maybe cry a bit, perhaps a bit embarrassed. Meanwhile someone remembers to never fuck with certain kids again!

a 6 tends to have a strong sense of location and what is their's. If they are in their home, and loud music intrudes, they can blow up. Likewise, in their car. But not so much protecting an unknown underdog out in public. 

>>>>>>>In the dog description, obviously I would step in (and I have in similar situations), but is that really completely reliant upon enneagram?

How many other people actually DO anything???? Bitching later doesn't count. To me this is TOTALLY enneagram. and to me, this is one of the things I've actually learned to be proud of about me. Yes, I'm called an asshole a lot. But I'm ok with that.


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## periwinklepromise (Jan 26, 2015)

I feel like "how to tell" questions are all about external stuff. How we all "tell" between two types are outside of our selves. This is not to say that the information in this thread is useless; I'm just not sure how helpful it is when you are trying to type yourself. I know this kind of thing didn't help me much, at least. 

Just keep reading and searching, OP. And if you have any questions specifically about being an INFJ 8, feel free to PM me.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

note to OP: Periwinklepromise is an INFJ 8 female.


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