# Helpful vs Condescending



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

I seem to end up with this problem over and over again. Whenever I try to be helpful, I can't figure out a way to explain things to people without making it sound like they don't know anything. 
It seems as whenever I try to be helpful I end up being condescending.

In MBTI for example the issue is that I know a lot and I know that I know a lot so there's really no reason for me to exchange knowledge since most people know less than I do. 
There's even less reason since I spend most of my time in the "What's my personality type?" section.

I often come off as being very confident in what I say and it doesn't help when I either know or believe that I am right.

I've tried the "As you may or may not know..." and other things, but they just gets perceived even worse or my entire point is dismissed because I'm not being decisive enough.

Or maybe I just tell the ugly truth and people get upset...

Anyways...
How do you master this art of being helpful without being condescending?


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

It might be helpful if you posted some of your previous comments that you feel were misinterpreted here as examples. Then we could give you some specific advice about how to word those better. I have the same problem sometimes, the main thing I try to do in order to prevent them is to try and put myself in the other person's shoes and ask how I would read the response if I was in their position.


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## Johnston (Dec 16, 2012)

@bluekitdon is right, examples would be useful. However, there are people out there whose self-esteem might be so low that they will be secretly envious of your broad knowledge or confidence and end up feeling patronized no matter how hard you try. So it's their problem, not yours. Your job in being helpful is simply to assertively present your points.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

When you said that, I began to think that you might be a T.  Please don't get me wrong, I just tend to notice that people that are T often mean well or are just neutral, but their way of writing or trying to explain things, or even when they try to give advices, often give the impression of being insensitive even if they are not. I guess that F people tend to worry about empathizing and what the other person might feel, while T tend to focus on putting things in a logical way.
Back then, when me and my ISTJ husband started dating, he used to seem very critical and said things like "there's no point in worrying" or "you are overreacting about this issue". He was concerned about me and wanted to give helpful advises, yet for a feeler like me I rather interpreted it as belittling my emotions or blaming on me. Now he learned to be more careful with his own choice of words, just as me actually learned to see things more logically.

But back to your case... often when people want support, they want to feel understood first. So if you can show that you understood the other person's feelings, they can become more receptive to your advices. So if you want to help someone else, a better way is to first ask them how they feel and why they think the way they do, and then maybe present your advices in a non pressuring way, like "have you considered doing x or y" instead of "you should just". Also, "I see why you did that, thought maybe it would be better if you tried x?" instead of "you were wrong to have done x". Presenting possible solutions and keeping the other person's receptivity in check is more helpful than simply point out were the person is at fault. Of course there are times when the other person needs to hear the harsh truth, thought it is not always helpful to simply punch them harsh.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

I'll quote some of my posts that have sparked defensiveness or fights.



Acerbusvenator said:


> I don't see you as an intuitive. You do however have a strong bias for NTJ (I'd say INTJ especially).
> Truth is that this thread seems more like "confirm my bias" than "help me find my type". You use stereotypical articles about how NTJs are supposed to stereotypically be as supporting evidence.
> 
> Also, the video makes ESFP top on my list of probable types.
> ...





Acerbusvenator said:


> However, she asked to be typed in MBTI, not socionics.
> 
> I abandoned socionics because it's really just saying what MBTI is saying but in more words. It's not like knowing your socionics type will lead you to know more about yourself than knowing your MBTI type.


(connected to the one above)


Acerbusvenator said:


> Oh yes, let's find her socionics type so that she can find her MBTI type instead of trying to find her MBTI type to begin with.
> MBTI and socionics doesn't have a 100% correlation rate, thinking that you are INTP and EII.
> She didn't ask for her _"Psychological types"_ type either.
> 
> I think we both know the problem with converting system A to system B with risk of inaccuracy (plus risk of mistype in both systems) when we could just start with system B to begin with without inaccuracies (other than possible mistypes).





Acerbusvenator said:


> No, however that she doesn't seem to display inferior Se is peculiar for an INJ. Especially since the only inferiority she has displayed is around Fi. (Dominant and inferior functions can however be mixed up since the inferior becomes quite active during inferior eruptions)
> 
> Anyways, I don't care anymore because I seem to be dragged off-topic every time I mention anything except INTJ. Like our discussion about biology. It seems to me that INTJ is her bias.


That's some of them.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

AriesLilith said:


> When you said that, I began to think that you might be a T.  Please don't get me wrong, I just tend to notice that people that are T often mean well or are just neutral, but their way of writing or trying to explain things, or even when they try to give advices, often give the impression of being insensitive even if they are not.


This is so me, I have started running things by my wife (an F) sometimes if it is a touchy situation before I put things in writing. Interesting how a small change in wording can make a huge difference, and she often has a solid feel for how the other person is likely to take it.



> I guess that F people tend to worry about empathizing and what the other person might feel, while T tend to focus on putting things in a logical way.


Very good point, I have had a lot more luck trying since I have intentionally started trying to put myself in the other person's shoes when writing.


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## Hurricane Matthew (Nov 9, 2012)

Your comments don't seem very condescending to me... I'd think a condescending comment would be more along the lines of "Jeez, you're a really stupid piece of shit" or "My god, you are an idiot!" You seem pretty straightforward and easy to understand, but some people are just extremely oversensitive and will take positive suggestions in a negative way regardless. I talk the same way to everyone when trying to help and give advice and most people seem okay with my suggestions. However, there are always those who take it as a personal attack, no matter how you word it and that's a problem on their side, not yours. Some people just don't want help and don't want to be told what they're doing wrong. I don't think it has to do with T vs F since a stubborn version of either will believe you are wrong and they are right each and every time.


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## bluekitdon (Dec 19, 2012)

I'll take one example.



> Oh yes, let's find her socionics type so that she can find her MBTI type instead of trying to find her MBTI type to begin with.
> MBTI and socionics doesn't have a 100% correlation rate, thinking that you are INTP and EII.
> She didn't ask for her _"Psychological types"_ type either.
> 
> I think we both know the problem with converting system A to system B with risk of inaccuracy (plus risk of mistype in both systems) when we could just start with system B to begin with without inaccuracies (other than possible mistypes).


You might have said something like:

_"MBTI and Socionics don't have a 100% correlation rate. The problem I see is that there is a large risk of mistyping when dealing with just one of the systems, and an even greater error rate when converting system A to system B. That is why I believe we should just start with system B to begin with."_

I believe you are coming across wrong because you are using you terminology rather than I terminology. Oh yes also comes across as condescending, you are dismissing the other person's opinion, which they are entitled to have regardless if it is technically correct or not. I would suggest using I terminology such as I believe or I think, rather than saying you as in you are wrong.


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## Johnston (Dec 16, 2012)

I agree with @Matthew Nisshoku, I guess I have nothing more to add. @Acerbusvenator, your statements seem clear, direct and impersonal (therefore no ad hominem at all).

Nonetheless, if I may to derail this thread just a little, I'd like to indicate that @AriesLilith brought up a very interesting subject known as psychological invalidation ("there's no point in worrying" or "you are overreacting about this issue"). Guys, I gotta tell you that I may not be the most emotional person in the world, but each time someone (unrelentingly) "invalidates" me, I easily become furious (inside).


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## jbking (Jun 4, 2010)

Acerbusvenator said:


> How do you master this art of being helpful without being condescending?


While I don't have it mastered, here are some tips I'd pass along from How to Win Friends and Influence People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :



> Begin with praise and honest appreciation.
> Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly.
> Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person.
> Ask questions instead of giving direct orders.
> ...


Just some ideas to ponder.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

jbking said:


> While I don't have it mastered, here are some tips I'd pass along from How to Win Friends and Influence People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :
> 
> 
> 
> Just some ideas to ponder.


Thanks, all help is equally appreciated :happy:


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