# Business-minded NTs -- How are we doing?



## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

For those of you NTs who buy low and sell high, or as entrepreneurs, planners or managers, what would you say are the best qualities your type and your individual mind bring to the business world?

And likewise, what areas do you need to improve?

Thanks.


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## Mav (Dec 19, 2010)

I would suggest, at least in my experience, it is my (our) ability to look through the hype and emotion surrounding certain issues; cut to the core of the issue and ask the tough questions. If the answers are not up to standard, we are either able to a) dump the idea without hesitation and with rational, practical reasons; or b) develop a viable strategy to get the idea to work.


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## CCCXXIX (Mar 11, 2011)

The common misconception of the ENTJ, is that the ENTJ is only good at managing. People think that the ENTJ talents lay only within the realm of structure, efficiency, and implementation. This is of course false, a stereotype, and part of the typing handbook for idiots (which is apparently quite popular). In reality ENTJs are just better at everything business related (yeah the whole ENTP entrepreneur/ENTJ CEO, that's a lie. ENTPs are at their best in leadership as an entreprenuer, the ENTJ is still better at it though.).

Qualities that I would hold most valuable to my type is:

Innovative - with the mindset "I won't reinvent the wheel, I'll just re-imagine it".

Observative - Able to predict many things, such as what will sell and what wont, because of an endless collection of observations relating to people and buying trends (based on what they wear, what they own, the services they purchase, what they say/have said, etc.).

Implement

BrainScale - The most logical decision (has more weight in it's favor) is the decision to go with.

Analytical - Always breaking down everything from best case scenario, to worst case scenario. Have every road covered, ready for anything and everything.

Efficiency - Wasting resources is bad.


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## elixare (Aug 26, 2010)

Strengths:

-System Thinking/System Building/System Perception Mindset
-A global, big picture perspective (if you want to make a million dollars (or even billions) you gotta sell to the forest, not to the tree)
-Vision and Drive
-The ability to spot talent in others and to immediately discern the most optimal way to allocate resources to accomplish necessary goals
-The ability to formulate sound strategy that spans years and years into the future and execute them with finesse
-Creativity and Innovation
-Tenacity, willpower, relentlessness, conscientiousness, a can-do attitude, and a competitive spirit 
-General financial acumen
-The abililty to accurately predict future trends by actually looking at the logical structure of reality rather than looking into a crystal ball or assuming that things that happened in the past will keep on happening again as most people do 
-etc, etc

Whatever I am weak in, I intend to solicit the help of others. But overall, my strengths overweigh my weaknesses...


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## Eleventeenth (Aug 24, 2011)

CCCXXIX said:


> The common misconception of the ENTJ, is that the ENTJ is only good at managing. People think that the ENTJ talents lay only within the realm of structure, efficiency, and implementation. This is of course false, a stereotype, and part of the typing handbook for idiots (which is apparently quite popular). In reality ENTJs are just better at everything business related (yeah the whole ENTP entrepreneur/ENTJ CEO, that's a lie. ENTPs are at their best in leadership as an entreprenuer, the ENTJ is still better at it though.).


It seems like you're saying that ENTJ's are better than ENTP's at everything and anything business related. Or, that ENTJ's are just a superior being. Is that your claim?


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## CCCXXIX (Mar 11, 2011)

Eleventeenth said:


> It seems like you're saying that ENTJ's are better than ENTP's at everything and anything business related. Or, that ENTJ's are just a superior being. Is that your claim?


Yup... Rebuttle?


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## Eleventeenth (Aug 24, 2011)

CCCXXIX said:


> Yup... Rebuttle?


My primary rebuttal would be to LOL. My secondary rebuttal would be to say that ENTP's can innovate circles around ENTJ's. Note that I didn't say they are better organized or better leaders per se. I simply said they can out-innovate ENTJ's, all other things equal. If I need a pure innovator/inventor/idea man or if I need raw creativity, I'm going with an ENTP 100 times out of 100.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

I have a no nonsense attitude when it comes to analyzing or perceiving business process and/or methods. If something doesn't work or seems illogically organized, I will usually say so if I think it's a big enough problem. 

Although it's somewhat clichéd, I'm a big picture person and look at problems on a global level. Of course just looking at big picture stuff isn't always practical so I like to think that I'm fairly detail oriented as well.

I think one of the most valuable skills I've learned and still need to improve on as an ENTP (poor Se utilization) is how to drive home process and improvement.


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## lovegames25 (Oct 7, 2010)

Yea I/ENTPs can reinvent ENTJ's face. Take that ENTJs. lol


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## CCCXXIX (Mar 11, 2011)

Eleventeenth said:


> My primary rebuttal would be to LOL. My secondary rebuttal would be to say that ENTP's can innovate circles around ENTJ's. Note that I didn't say they are better organized or better leaders per se. I simply said they can out-innovate ENTJ's, all other things equal. If I need a pure innovator/inventor/idea man or if I need raw creativity, I'm going with an ENTP 100 times out of 100.


lol, good luck making money with that mindset. My guess is you have never actually met or talked to an ENTP, or an ENTJ for that matter. And if you have you've never put them into an environment to really challenge the thought structure of the two types.



> Yea I/ENTPs can reinvent ENTJ's face. Take that ENTJs. lolYea I/ENTPs can reinvent ENTJ's face. Take that ENTJs. lol


False, ENTP base their innovation off of the intangible possibilities (Ne) of tangible systems (Ti). ENTJ base their innovation off of tangible possibilities (Te) of intangible systems (Ni).

They are two different ways of looking at the world, and can only be connected after a conversion.

This is why the INTP compliments the ENTP thinking, and the ENTJ compliments the INTJ thinking. Because the INTJ is dominated by intangible Ni, and the ENTP is dominated by intangible Ne. Their ideas, when presented to the INTP/ENTJ, are fed through the tangible dominant (Te, Ti). So the half of the puzzle the intangible can't see is then realized.

The ENTJ has the highest developed subconcious intuition, this is due to the needs of Te to understand every possible angle of a given problem or situation.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

CCCXXIX said:


> lol, good luck making money with that mindset. My guess is you have never actually met or talked to an ENTP, or an ENTJ for that matter. And if you have you've never put them into an environment to really challenge the thought structure of the two types.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Elaborate please. I am beginning to see the connections, but I am not entirely following what you're saying.


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## Popinjay (Sep 19, 2011)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> For those of you NTs who buy low and sell high, or as entrepreneurs, planners or managers, what would you say are the best qualities your type and your individual mind bring to the business world?
> 
> And likewise, what areas do you need to improve?
> 
> Thanks.


Best Quality: The ability to make the most logical and efficient decision (when others are indecisive or incompetent) without being derailed by obstacles.

Needs Improvement: The tendency to see people as obstacles...and only obstacles.


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## BusinessMan (Apr 21, 2011)

I wasn't gonna join in on the ENTJ vs. ENTP pissing contest, but what the hell.

I know plenty of ENTJ entrepreneurs as well as some ENTP entrepreneurs. Both types are very suited for entrepreneurship, although as a lifestyle choice it may be a bit better for the ENTP seeing as we really don't fit in anywhere other than world's we create for ourselves. Note that I'm not saying one type makes a better entrepreneur than the other. I also know of plenty of ESTP entrepreneurs, although they all seem content with keeping their business small and focusing on a very niche product/service.

It seems to me that ENTJs are typically more of the plan-then-execute type, whereas ENTPs are of the plan-while-executing type. All of the ENTJ entrepreneurs I know made a thorough business plan and valued their business plans a lot. The ENTP entrepreneurs I know, including myself, are more reluctant to make business plans and only do so to convince other people of the idea.

My business has changed a lot since I first started it almost two years ago. First it was service-oriented, now it's product-oriented. I often ask myself why I'm doing this, if there really is a point to this. One of the prime motivators for me starting a business was to become wealthy. That is still one of the reasons, and I don't think I'd be satisfied on my deathbed if I didn't achieve that goal. BUT now my bigger goal is to make a large-scale impact on the world. What my business does currently is only touching a small piece of the grand vision.

Back to the ENTP vs ENTJ thing. I'd say the biggest difference I've noticed between the two is where each type seems to excel in business.
ENTJs excel in follow-through. ENTPs excel in adaptability. Both traits are important to have as a business owner.

Ultimately though, type doesn't determine who makes the best entrepreneur. That is determined by how successful your business is.

Finally, for your reading pleasure, read this article on negative personality traits which most entrepreneurs seem to have:
The Classic Entrepreneur: A Look at the Dark Side | Men with Pens


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## BusinessMan (Apr 21, 2011)

Double post


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

BusinessMan said:


> I wasn't gonna join in on the ENTJ vs. ENTP pissing contest, but what the hell.
> 
> I know plenty of ENTJ entrepreneurs as well as some ENTP entrepreneurs. Both types are very suited for entrepreneurship, although as a lifestyle choice it may be a bit better for the ENTP seeing as we really don't fit in anywhere other than world's we create for ourselves. Note that I'm not saying one type makes a better entrepreneur than the other. I also know of plenty of ESTP entrepreneurs, although they all seem content with keeping their business small and focusing on a very niche product/service.
> 
> ...


Interesting article. I can relate on many levels, but not completely. It seems that the article was describing a single-minded ENTJ entrepreneur, especially where it said if business is running smoothly then the entrepreneur will feel restless. 

I know that when my business is running smoothly and making good money, then I will kick back and have fun. The main reason why I went into business is so I can live prosperously and independently. It's out of necessity.

Yes, starting and running a business is mentally stimulating and is fun. But I have so many other interests in life as well, and I really just want to have fun in the end. Being independent and monied subsidizes that.


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## BusinessMan (Apr 21, 2011)

Magnificent Bastard said:


> Interesting article. I can relate on many levels, but not completely. It seems that the article was describing a single-minded ENTJ entrepreneur, especially where it said if business is running smoothly then the entrepreneur will feel restless.
> 
> I know that when my business is running smoothly and making good money, then I will kick back and have fun. The main reason why I went into business is so I can live prosperously and independently. It's out of necessity.
> 
> Yes, starting and running a business is mentally stimulating and is fun. But I have so many other interests in life as well, and I really just want to have fun in the end. Being independent and monied subsidizes that.


I get bored when things are running smoothly, so I find something new to focus on. Business owners aren't process-oriented, for the most part, which is what I think the author was getting at.

Would you guys say you're more selfish than the average person? I've thought about this quite a bit lately, and I think to be a successful business owner you have to be selfish.

Everyone has their own goals for where they want to go with their business. I want to take mine to a global level if I can. I'm not content with remaining a small-but-profitable company and settling for millionaire status. At the very least I want to know that I am capable of earning billionaire status (whether or not I pay myself that much will be seen, but I want the option to be there).

One problem I'm noticing is that I have tons of ideas for businesses in various industries other than the one I'm in right now, but I obviously can't focus on all of them. This leads to me often questioning whether or not I chose the right industry. Every time I come to the same conclusion, which is that I am. But once my current business becomes self-sustaining and needing little of my time and energy, I will definitely be focusing on building more ventures. I will also then have more resources to start with, since I'm waiting to build up significant wealth before launching my next biz (three separate ideas right now).


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## Magnificent Bastard (Sep 22, 2010)

BusinessMan said:


> I get bored when things are running smoothly, so I find something new to focus on. Business owners aren't process-oriented, for the most part, which is what I think the author was getting at.
> 
> Would you guys say you're more selfish than the average person? I've thought about this quite a bit lately, and I think to be a successful business owner you have to be selfish.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say we're more selfish than anyone else. Entrepreneurs don't force people to do their bidding. People in the business world have choices--that's why we can negotiate over things.


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## CCCXXIX (Mar 11, 2011)

"You can't connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect them looking backwards"
- Steve Jobs


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## elixare (Aug 26, 2010)

BusinessMan said:


> One problem I'm noticing is that I have tons of ideas for businesses in various industries other than the one I'm in right now, but I obviously can't focus on all of them. This leads to me often questioning whether or not I chose the right industry. Every time I come to the same conclusion, which is that I am. But once my current business becomes self-sustaining and needing little of my time and energy, I will definitely be focusing on building more ventures. I will also then have more resources to start with, since I'm waiting to build up significant wealth before launching my next biz (three separate ideas right now).


What industry are you in?

And LOL at the article.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

BusinessMan said:


> Both types are very suited for entrepreneurship, although as a lifestyle choice it may be a bit better for the ENTP seeing as we really don't fit in anywhere other than world's we create for ourselves. Note that I'm not saying one type makes a better entrepreneur than the other.
> 
> ENTPs are of the plan-while-executing type. All of the ENTJ entrepreneurs I know made a thorough business plan and valued their business plans a lot. The ENTP entrepreneurs I know, including myself, are more reluctant to make business plans and only do so to convince other people of the idea.
> 
> ...


I am an INTP entrepreneur and I agree with BusinessMan - especially with the points I quoted. I wanted my ENTJ friend to join me as a business partner because I believe our strengths and weaknesses would balance things out. She wasn't ready to take the risk, so I am going it alone. So far, so good. I have one business going and am hoping to start the other in 2012.


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## BusinessMan (Apr 21, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> I am an INTP entrepreneur and I agree with BusinessMan - especially with the points I quoted. I wanted my ENTJ friend to join me as a business partner because I believe our strengths and weaknesses would balance things out. She wasn't ready to take the risk, so I am going it alone. So far, so good. I have one business going and am hoping to start the other in 2012.


Be careful doing business with friends and family. I once tried starting a business with my cousin (ENFP), and it didn't end well. Too save our relationship I pulled out.

My ENTJ friend is starting a business as well doing pretty much the same thing as me where I'll be acting as his supplier. Having learned from trying it with my cousin, I told him ahead of time that I we've been friends for a while, but now we're going to be doing business with each other. I also told him how I expect to be treated differently in terms of our business relationship vs. our friendship.

@childofprodigy I'm in the energy efficiency industry. Currently I sell LED lights, but I plan on expanding into other products as well.

What do the rest of you people do?


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

BusinessMan said:


> Be careful doing business with friends and family. I once tried starting a business with my cousin (ENFP), and it didn't end well. Too save our relationship I pulled out.
> 
> What do the rest of you people do?


I've heard that before. I think it did work out for the best. I'm sure we would have clashed a lot. lol

I own a residential cleaning company. The business I'd like to launch next year involves coffee and desserts, but with a unique twist (not sharing here, sorry! :tongue: )


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## BusinessMan (Apr 21, 2011)

Another thing that's been crossing my mind lately ...

I assume that most of the people responding in this thread are still relatively young (20s and 30s). I'm 22. I've always found it somewhat challenging relating to other people my age, which I've since realized has a lot to do with my personality type/temperament. However, since starting a business at such a young age, it seems that I've outgrown a lot of the friends I've made over the years, and increasingly it seems that the only people I can relate to these days are other young entrepreneurs. 

A common saying I've heard often is that you are the average of the five people you talk to the most, and while it made sense to me before, now that I have upgraded the people who I associate myself with I am actually observing firsthand the positive difference it is making on my work ethic, confidence and success.

The only problem with this that the more successful I become the less people there will be for me to relate to, which concerns me a little bit. Most of society is so accustomed to the idea of working for a boss and hoping for a raise and can only dream of owning a business. Only 1-2% of the general population ever attempts to start a business, and only 30% of businesses succeed. Ultimately, I guess, I have this deep desire to be successful and accomplished, and being recognized for my achievements. But I also want to have a balanced social life with people I can relate to. Have any of you guys noticed this as well?


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## CCCXXIX (Mar 11, 2011)

BusinessMan said:


> The only problem with this that the more successful I become the less people there will be for me to relate to, which concerns me a little bit. Most of society is so accustomed to the idea of working for a boss and hoping for a raise and can only dream of owning a business. Only 1-2% of the general population ever attempts to start a business, and only 30% of businesses succeed. Ultimately, I guess, I have this deep desire to be successful and accomplished, and being recognized for my achievements. But I also want to have a balanced social life with people I can relate to. Have any of you guys noticed this as well?


People tend to associate based on social class not based on job-type. The only exception to this rule is if you chance by someone that would never attempt to take advantage of you.


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## DAHN (May 13, 2011)

For those entrepreneurs out there, how did you come up with initial capital?


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## Eleventeenth (Aug 24, 2011)

BusinessMan said:


> I wasn't gonna join in on the ENTJ vs. ENTP pissing contest, but what the hell.
> 
> I know plenty of ENTJ entrepreneurs as well as some ENTP entrepreneurs. Both types are very suited for entrepreneurship, although as a lifestyle choice it may be a bit better for the ENTP seeing as we really don't fit in anywhere other than world's we create for ourselves. Note that I'm not saying one type makes a better entrepreneur than the other. I also know of plenty of ESTP entrepreneurs, although they all seem content with keeping their business small and focusing on a very niche product/service.
> 
> ...


Even more interesting than this article that you linked, is another article that this author linked in the comments (see comment from March 1, 2008 from the above article) - an article out of MIT from 1988 that linked ENTP's to the entrepreneurial mindset. Pretty good read, with Jung and MBTI mentioned in the article:

http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/han...d=9EFA12A345711B5068B2BCF77D3290FD?sequence=1


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## BusinessMan (Apr 21, 2011)

DAHN said:


> For those entrepreneurs out there, how did you come up with initial capital?


I got a $3000 grant from the government and used some of my student loan as well. My parents weren't too pleased when they found out about the second source.


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## DAHN (May 13, 2011)

BusinessMan said:


> I got a $3000 grant from the government and used some of my student loan as well. My parents weren't too pleased when they found out about the second source.


I'm actually thinking about doing the same exact thing as you. I also doubt my family would be pleased at all. Haha. Anyway, what type of business did you start? Were you initially successful?


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