# Please help me with my Type



## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

This madness has gone on for long enough now. For more than a month I've been seeking information to come to the right conclusion, yet I keep finding reasons as to why other types are possible. It's driving me nuts, so to put a stop to it I'll ask you guys. Perhaps a non-biased perspective will help me find the one that “fits best”.
So far I've tested ISTP, ISFP, ISTJ, INTJ, INTP, INFP, INFJ and ENTJ. I've done multiple regular MBTI tests, and more than fifty of cognitive functions tests. (I'm not joking)


1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?

I strongly desire harmony. When people are fighting I start feeling almost sick and want to get away from them. When I sense tension I will try to defuse the situation, but only when it concerns people are care about. (I'm not very good at doing so, but I do try).
I like games in which I can express myself, such as the Sims (characters and houses), RPG's in general (character, armor, weapons, and skills) and Rollercoaster Tycoon (parks and coasters).
In games like Magic the Gathering I always look for maximum synergy between elements, to make a deck one big whole so to speak (don't know if this is relevant, but might as well put it out there).


2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?

If I knew that I would have an easier time choosing a major. I know money is important, but apart from financial stability (steady job), I don't really have desires. I'm not materialistic at all, when the house looks nice and isn't full of holes I'm happy. I'm not interested in helping people, because to me they are worth just as much as other animals. Even if 3 billion people were to die tomorrow, I would not care at all. 
The problem with this all is, I AM seeking greater meaning in my life. I just can't find it. I don't want to just go to my job every day and live my life. I want to do something, achieve something, accomplish something. I just am not sure what it is I want to accomplish.


3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.

During physical activities at school I felt really good, since I just love running, jumping, climbing and that sort of stuff. I'm very bad at ballsports though (bad eye-hand coordination).

Also swimming in the ocean and lying on the beach makes me forget all my problems and just relax. (Not sure if it's relevant but it makes me feel really good, so I think it's worth noting)


4) What makes you feel inferior?

In the Netherlands there are 3 levels of highschool, VMBO, havo and VWO, in ascending order of difficulty. I started off on VWO-level. However, I was much slower at grasping things like physics, chemistry, biology, etc than my piers. I put immense amounts of effort into getting results, yet I could never reach their level. This broke me after a few years. After that I had to go to havo-level, which I finished easily. However, the feeling of failure and being less than the VWO-people kept stinging me. I don't feel that bad about it anymore, but for about a year I was absolutely swallowed by self-hatred.

I also am very bad at having arguments. I can never come up with things to say quickly enough (I like to prepare in advance, with arguments this is usually not possible). Because of this I always lose them, even to my sister who is 3 years younger than I am. This frustrates me immensely.
Also, I think much faster than I speak, and because of this I sometimes skip words while I'm speaking.


5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)

Usually my decisions will be purely logical. If it's the most efficient, that is what I'll go with. The problem with that is that when I have to make choices based on my feelings (major to study for example) I become completely crambled. I start looking for things that I might like to do, but I always keep hearing a voice that tells me to take the 'best' route (job security, good pay, etc).
When it's about less important things, like what to have for dinner, I will easily budge in favor of the other people. I don't think it's big enough a thing to make a fuzz about, so I just go with what they like so they won't start whining. That does mean I will do the opposite the next time (totally my decision), since I believe in absolute equality (you get something, I get something).


6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?

Oh yes. I would prefer it if everyone just did what they had to do, but this is rarely the case. So I usually become the project leader to ensure things are finished on time. If someone else is just as good, or even better, than me at doing this I will gladly let them take charge though.


7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?

Playing games with my friends. It just makes me feel alive to do stuff with them. Most of them are very energetic, so I guess this kind of rubs off on me.


8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)

Like I stated before, I'm a slow learning. To remember stuff, I tend to make a lot of exercises to remember the steps I have to take to get to the right answer. After a while, I'll start seeing the patterns and will be able to use it in every way possible. This is a slow process, but by the end it will feel like second nature. My memory is really bad though, so when the tests are over, I tend to forget it very quickly again.


9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?

Fairly organized. I dislike it when rooms are messy, especially when the stuff starts to make movement difficult (my mother tends to be a hoarder haha). I like to have my books and games on a shelf next to eachother, so that I can easily take them out and use them when I want. I'm good at making plans, but I only write down the steps it takes. I'm never specific (today this, tomorrow that). I do try that sometimes, but it's only when I'm procrastinating so badly that I just have to put a stop to it.


10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?

I want to try things out for myself to see if it works. If it does, and if it is better than the old idea, then I will start using the new idea from that point onward. If it doesn't work, I will discard it.


11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?

I definitely like it when I see nobody is being left out, since I was always left out as a kid and don't want others to suffer the same fate. I am not the kind of person that goes around asking how people are doing, however. I prefer to stand back and observe, only acting when I notice something should be different.


12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?

I think before I speak and I prefer one-on-one communication. I like to really get to know people and what drives them. I don't care about discussions in general, because they don't lead anywhere. However, talking one-on-one with someone gives me valuable insight into that person's inner workings.


13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?

I always want to know what I'm getting into. I really dislike surprises, because I can't prepare myself beforehand. I prefer action over words. People can lie and cheat, but results are always speak true.


14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?

I don't watch television, but if I did I would just record the episode and go out with my friends. I've never done this is real life because nobody has ever asked me to go out with them. 


15) How do you act when you're stressed out?

Agitated and impatient. I want the thing that is causing me stress to go away as quickly as possible so I tend to rush through it. This means I will usually have to get back to it later because I skipped over things in my hurry.


16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?

Since I was bullied a lot when I was younger, the confrontational style of some people really irritates me. 
Also, people who say something that sounds nice, but when I know they means something else, something insulting usually. That really angers me.


17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?

At the moment I like talking about MBTI with my mother, since I think it might help me figure out what my next step in life should be.
I'm not really talkative however, and usually when I want to get something off of my chest, I'll post it on forums.


18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life

At the moment I would say social and physical activity. Outside of my family I have hardly any social life at all, and I'm not doing anything active either. 


19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?

Cold, easily irritated, serious guy with a dry sense of humor.
I act more confident in public than I actually am usually. My mind is all over the place usually, yet I focus when I'm at school to give off a better impression. The moment I get home my mind wanders off again and my productivity drops massively.


20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?

If I could be anywhere, I would be on a beach in a warm country. If I'm at home, I would probably just be doing what I'm always doing, looking things up on the internet.

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1. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

I'm constantly under stress these days, since I have to make important decisions that will impact the rest of my life. I think I'm HSP, but I've never been diagnosed. I'm an 19 year old guy with a troubled mind.


2. Study these two images here and here. Which one do you prefer and why? How would you describe it?

The first one. I love the sea, but the real beauty comes from the lights in the sky. It gives the image a surreal quality. The other picture is just food. 


3. Please describe yourself as a person if you were to introduce yourself to someone else like in a cover letter. What kind of person are you and why?

A man who endlessly thinks of possibilities, yet ultimately goes absolutely nowhere.


4. What kind of person would you LIKE to be? Why? What kind of person would you NOT want to be? Why?

I would like to be an adventurer of some kind. A wildlife ranger, a rockclimber, a snowboarder. Someone who can make a living while being free from the clutches of society.

I would not want to be an office worker who fills his days by sitting behind his computer (oh the irony), with no goal in life and nothing to live for.


5. Do you think there are any differences to how you described yourself and how people actually perceive you? How do you think others would describe you? If there are any discrepancies between these two that are you are aware of; do you know why exactly that is?

Others probably see me as much more cold, direct and aggresive than I really am. When people mess with me I tend to become enraged, because I've done nothing to deserve that. This makes me seem more violent than I am, since I really dislike violence. I don't open up to people easily, so I can come across as far colder than I really am. The directness is something I only have when I'm at school. When there is work to be done, I just get to it. At home this quite different. I wish I had the discipline I have at school when I'm at home.


6. What in life do you find to be of importance? Why? If you are unsure you can always take the Value Test and post the results here. Do note that it helps if you narrow it down to 20 or ideally 10 values as suggested at stage 2.

In no particular order:
Financial Independence
Passion
Motivation
Reliability
Contribution
Wisdom
Intelligence
Discovery
Adventure
Warmth


7. How do you react to new situations in your life? Can you describe an event in your life where you were in an unknown situation? How did you deal with it?

I try quickly adjust my plan to get back on track. For instance, when my train has been cancelled, I start thinking about how I can still get to the desired location on time by using a different travel path.


8. Please describe yourself when you are in a stressful situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

From question 15:
“Agitated and impatient. I want the thing that is causing me stress to go away as quickly as possible so I tend to rush through it. This means I will usually have to get back to it later because I skipped over things in my hurry.”


9. Please describe yourself when you are in an enjoyable situation. How do you act and why? Real life experiences are welcome.

When I'm really feeling comfortable I tend to lose my seriousness and become more playful. However, the moment I see one person I am not perfectly comfortable with and I become completely serious again. It's a really vulnerable state for me, so I don't like showing it to most people.


10. Describe your relationship to socialization. How do you perceive one-on-one interaction? How do you perceive group interaction?

I like one-on-one interaction, since I can get to know a person better that way. In a group things are less personal, which makes it less interesting for me. I love sitting in a quiet environment with a person I care a lot about and then just listen to her talk (although this might be because I had a crush on that girl back then, hehe).


11. Describe your relationship to society. What are the elements of it you hold important or unimportant (e.g. social norms, values, customs, traditions)? How do you see people as a whole?

I follow rules because I don't like calling attention to myself. I rarely went against teachers because I knew I would lose a confrontation like that. I tended to just curse them in my head. I always want to know why a rule exists. “It just is” is absolutely unacceptable to me. If it makes sense, fine. If it doesn't, I don't feel the need to follow it. I usually do what I'm told though, because fighting authority is an uphill battle for someone without power.


12. Describe your relationship to authority. How do you perceive authority? What does it mean to you, and how do you deal with it?

Like I said, I want rules and regulations to make sense. I will not go against authority however, since there is hardly any gain and the consequences can be devastating to your career. In school, I did everything that was asked of me, because I wanted to have the teachers on my side. This usually worked in my favour, since I was never punished for anything.


13. Describe your relationship to order and chaos. What do order and chaos mean to you? How do they manifest in your daily life?

I like to know what I can expect. However, not knowing can often be a lot more exciting. Knowing the routine can get boring very quickly, and it makes me feel stuck in a rut. (doing the same thing over and over and over and over..). I like variety, however complete chaos is not something I am comfortable with.


14. What is it that you fear in life? Why? How does this fear manifest to you both in how you think and how you act?

To never find my passion and be stuck in this world with no goal or motivation. This is the reason I absolutely have to find the find I want to do as a career. If I cannot find it and have to accept some uninteresting job to fill me days, I would rather just die right now.


15. What is it that you desire in life? What do you strive to achieve? Why? Where do you think these drives and desires stem from or are inspired by?

True friendship, love, all that cliché stuff. I don't have any grandiose wishes like becoming rich or a CEO. If I am able to find real friends and someone who loves me for who I am, I would be a happy man indeed.


16. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

Energize: Having fun with friends. 
Their energy just rubs off on me and it makes me feel happy, which I rarely am otherwise.

Drains: Having to do work I don't want to do, being around crying children.
I guess this speaks for itself.


17. Why do you want to know your type? What type do you think you are? Why this/these type(s)? Is there a type that appeals to you, to your self-perception, that you would like to be? Why? If you know your enneagram, please post this here. If you have done any online function tests such as the Keys2Cognition, it helps if you post these results here as well.

Because it might help me figure out what my next step in life should be. INTJ's description fits me pretty well, however I do pay attention the the feelings of others when I speak or act.
My enneagram types are 6w5 1w2 4w5.
My cognitive functions are all over the place.
Se tends to be at the lower end (because I think before I act) and Ni and Ti tend to be on the higher end (since I break things down logically, and I observe to notice patterns to then predict what the next action is going to be). Even this changes however, so I would prefer it if you do not pay attention to this and focus mainly on my answers to the other questions.


18. Finally, is there something else you find to be of importance you want to add about yourself you think might be of relevance when helping to type you? 

I am a strong believer in justice. When someone takes a life, their life should be taken in return. 
I have a tendency to act out all kinds of ways a conversation could develop in my head. I often have these kinds of stories play out. Don't know if it matters, but thought I might as well mention it.




I apologize in advance for my English. As I've said before, I'm not a native speaker.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

It's probably all over the place, isn't it?


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> It's probably all over the place, isn't it?


A little

Let's see. Wait

IXTJ

hmm

ISTJ makes sense


<and don't want others to suffer the same fate> a core of a confusion


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Answer said:


> A little
> 
> Let's see. Wait
> 
> ...



Interesting. I can see myself as either of those types (ISTJ or INTJ).
I don't care about traditions at all though. I keep reading that ISTJ's care about stuff like that, so I'm not sure what to think of that. For instance, I don't understand why people see birthdays as important things. It's just an extra year in your life, and just because you were born on that day so many years ago doesn't make it special.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> Interesting. I can see myself as either of those types (ISTJ or INTJ).
> I don't care about traditions at all though. I keep reading that ISTJ's care about stuff like that, so I'm not sure what to think of that. For instance, I don't understand why people see birthdays as important things. It's just an extra year in your life, and just because you were born on that day so many years ago doesn't make it special.


I don't remember why I chose istj over intj, I didn't read completely everything. One of these anyways


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## Alexn12 (Nov 28, 2014)

I would say you're a thinker, but you use Fe. 

Two of your functions will be Ti Fe

That means your last two letters will probably be TP (because of Ti and preferring thinking over feeling.


ExTP so far. 

Like you said you have all of these ideas, but do nothing with them, that sounds like an XNXP because of Extraverted Intuition. 

So probably ENTP or ESTP. 

But I'm not a very experienced typer. 

And this post is short because I'm on my phone.


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## Alexn12 (Nov 28, 2014)

From what I know, Intuitives tend to be harder to separate Judger and Perceiver. ISxJs are traditional, but I think INxJ tend to be less traditional.


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## Alexn12 (Nov 28, 2014)

From what I know, Intuitives tend to be harder to separate Judger and Perceiver. ISxJs are traditional, but I think INxJ tend to be less traditional.

Its a bigger difference for introverts though.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Alexn12 said:


> I would say you're a thinker, but you use Fe.
> 
> Two of your functions will be Ti Fe
> 
> ...


I wish I could be one of those types haha. 
I read that ENTP's are good at debating and like one-upping people. I don't do this at all however. I usually ignore debates because they don't lead anywhere, and only manage to make someone upset by the end.

ESTP's are famous for taking action, while I contemplate for DAYS on what my next action should be. I really want to make the right choice career-wise so just keep looking for potential clues that could point me in the right direction. I do love action when it is presented to me though, since it allows me to stop thinking for a moment.


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## iNtuiting (Nov 7, 2014)

It's harder to type teenagers... Especially when they are under stress (some of your answers really sound like INTJ, but at the same time sound like ISTJ under stress. )
Lets say that we have sensing vs intuition dilemma here. Try reading on that subject. Although INTJs can activate Se under stress... but again you are very young...

You should also try socionics testing. You might find something in descriptions, or even in galleries. 


P.S. join a sport club (try it for a month... no ball sports... something else) to lower your stress level.

Edit: Don't be hard on yourself. I understand that you are probably making important career choices right now, but people change and grow over time and you will too. You will make mistakes and you will change your opinions and desires as you grow. The most important thing is not to neglect your health (physical and mental). 

Regarding MBTI, just learn about types for the sake of observation. Use it to help you to understand other people and eventually you will get better overall understanding - you will catch those patterns when the time comes and you will be able to see your type. No pressure!


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

iNtuiting said:


> It's harder to type teenagers... Especially when they are under stress (some of your answers really sound like INTJ, but at the same time sound like ISTJ under stress. )
> Lets say that we have sensing vs intuition dilemma here. Try reading on that subject. Although INTJs can activate Se under stress... but again you are very young...
> 
> You should also try socionics testing. You might find something in descriptions, or even in galleries.
> ...


The extended socionics test (with the pictures and stuff) gave me these types:
SLI (ISTp)
EII (INFj)
LSE (ESTj)
LII (INTj)

I am 19 years old, so I'm officially an adult. However, I have read that at this stage the functions are not yet fully developed, so that is something to keep in mind I guess.

It is funny to me that I'm once again being told not to be too hard on myself. Other people that have said that are my parents, teachers, friends and mentors. Goes to show that I really should listen sometimes 

The stress could definitely be making a difference. I have headaches nearly constantly and I feel drained even after a little bit of exercising.


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## iNtuiting (Nov 7, 2014)

Hmmm, I thought Socionics result will provide me a bigger picture, but I have to admit they didn't. All I see are inconsistencies. 

I am trying to form a bigger picture without typical analysis (if->then) because in these cases if->then->nowhere. 

I have read your posts few times and only hint I have is MBTI ISFP. My conclusion has nothing to do with descriptions and such, it's just an insight (I can deconstruct it of course).

Have these things in mind about ISFPs: 
- they are not "typical artists" and they usually laugh when they read such descriptions... so ignore that (we don't want to discuss definition of art here...)
- they usually type themselves as thinkers and can look like that on the outside (they can be very realistic, direct and somewhat cold, especially males)

I can try to deconstruct every sentence you wrote later if you want... and see if my hint is any good. I am now confusing you even more, but you are used to that.

I'll tell you again, don't be hard on yourself. If you are stressed a lot and feel drained you should visit a doctor. No really, you should! It's just normal, like going to the dentist. Sitting on the chair all day will just lower your immune system even more. You have to start slowly and upgrade your overall health SLOWLY!. I understand that MBTI type will help you to form your self concept and stuff, but really you will be happier and healthier both mentally and physically if you add more diversity in your lifestyle. We have all been there in some point in our lives so you should definitely listen.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

iNtuiting said:


> Hmmm, I thought Socionics result will provide me a bigger picture, but I have to admit they didn't. All I see are inconsistencies.
> 
> I am trying to form a bigger picture without typical analysis (if->then) because in these cases if->then->nowhere.
> 
> ...


I'm grateful that you are willing to put in the time to help me with this matter. 
ISFP is something I have considered as well. Like you said, it doesn't mean you have to be an artist for that.
Visitting a doctor is not necessary though. I talk about my troubles with my mother on a daily basis. She does get pretty impatient with my indecisiveness sometimes, but for the most part she just lets me talk uninterrupted.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Does anyone else have any suggestions?


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## Alomoes (Oct 5, 2014)

Intuition, I think you mistyped. Don't sound like "Fucks given = 0" Bach (Pardon my language, I only use it when quoting). Probably an Fi dom, because understood this guy and empathized with him, putting yourself in his shoes, and thinking as he thought. Us INFJs sympathize and then predict. I.E. We think about how we'd feel and then say if us then blank or if not then blank or if orange then blank or if blue then blank.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Alomoes said:


> Intuition, I think you mistyped. Don't sound like "Fucks given = 0" Bach (Pardon my language, I only use it when quoting). Probably an Fi dom, because understood this guy and empathized with him, putting yourself in his shoes, and thinking as he thought. Us INFJs sympathize and then predict. I.E. We think about how we'd feel and then say if us then blank or if not then blank or if orange then blank or if blue then blank.


Could you give me some insight into what my type might be? You seem to have a good understanding of the cognitive functions. I studied them for quite a while but just can't come to any solid conclusions.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Perhaps some extra information helps. 

I love finding out the reason why things are.
For instance, when I see someone act in a certain way, I always wonder what their motivation for that action is.
To me, the underlying truth is far more important than that which is shown. If you act friendly but I know there is a negative underlying meaning, it will get my blood boiling.


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## Alomoes (Oct 5, 2014)

Oh. Hrrm. That would fit the description of delta. Well, just so you know, I predict the existance of a type that I cannot understand except through one on one conversation, isolating himself from others because they look like all the others. ENTp/ENTJ. But yeah, the blood boiling sounds like delta INFj/INFP. Can you prove that you are extroverted? Hrrm. I'd assume the answer is no. Well, this would reuire you to engage your shadow, which is what you typically don't use. You could try, but I don't think it would work. 

Lets try this. Describe your ideal self. It could be that I am horribly over compensating my thought. Hrrm.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Alomoes said:


> Oh. Hrrm. That would fit the description of delta. Well, just so you know, I predict the existance of a type that I cannot understand except through one on one conversation, isolating himself from others because they look like all the others. ENTp/ENTJ. But yeah, the blood boiling sounds like delta INFj/INFP. Can you prove that you are extroverted? Hrrm. I'd assume the answer is no. Well, this would reuire you to engage your shadow, which is what you typically don't use. You could try, but I don't think it would work.
> 
> Lets try this. Describe your ideal self. It could be that I am horribly over compensating my thought. Hrrm.



On extroversion: I'm alone most of the time and I don't really mind it. I have a great dislike for small-talk since it doesn't gain me anything. I much prefer deep conversations, either about the person I'm talking to (I like getting to know the 'real you') or about subjects I find interesting (MBTI for instance, making my mother go crazy ). When I have to go out and meet new people I tend to become quite anxious, and after coming back from that I need a lot of time on my own to calm myself down again. I do wish I had people that would invite me to do stuff with them, but I guess I have myself to blame for that (Expected others to come to me).

I don't know if this really means I'm introverted or that I am just a really anxious extrovert, but my guess is introverted.


My ideal self? Hm, that is a difficult question.
I have often thought of myself being a sort-of guardian angel, protecting those that I care for. I don't show emotion often, so those people probably have no idea how far I would go for them. I want to be reliable and strong, and absolutely hate not being able to carry my own weight (If I have to be protected, how can I ever protect anyone else?). I really enjoy helping others with things I know a lot about, because it makes me feel like I have a purpose. I do tend to get impatient though, one of my bad habits when dealing with people.

EDIT: However, I am highly independent at the same time. I will not go after people, but when they come to me I am willing (Only if they are important to me though, not every person). I don't like groups and prefer to go my own way in life.


Being free from the shackles of society is something I have always wanted, yet known that it is almost too good to be true.
I really want to go on an adventure of some sort, but I know I need to take care of financial business before I can do such a thing.


EDIT2: This probably points towards strong Fi. However everytime I read about Fi it talks about seeing in black and white (right and wrong). I don't do this. People are far too complex to be 'good' or 'bad'. For instance, I don't see wars as good vs bad. Both sides have their reasons and ideologies. I prefer not to pick sides and to just let things unfold.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

After much thought I believe the most likely types would be ISTP and INTP.

For ISTP: I don't follow rules blindly and question everything. I like the thrill of action, but usually I'm stuck in thought. I have very sharp sight and hearing, and usually notice where everyone is around the house by just listening to footsteps. (This probably isn't type related, but worth mentioning nonetheless)

For INTP: I run all sorts of hypothetical situations in my head to see what the results would be. I can easily hang around the house thinking about all kinds of stuff for days on end, without ever doing anything. When action is going on around me, I tend to observe rather than partake. I'm always the neutral party in conflicts, because there never is a clear-cut answer. Both sides can be argued. 


Against ISTP: I am not mechanically inclined (I cannot fix things, nor do I have any interest in it). I also really dislike getting my hands dirty.

Against INTP: I don't just think about things for no reason. I usually want to obtain something by doing so, like insight, knowledge or a certain skill.


EDIT: ISFP and INFP are also possible. However, like I said before, I don't believe in right and wrong. There are pros and cons to everything in life, so saying one thing is bad or good is just vastly oversimplifying things.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Alomoes said:


> Oh. Hrrm. That would fit the description of delta. Well, just so you know, I predict the existance of a type that I cannot understand except through one on one conversation, isolating himself from others because they look like all the others. ENTp/ENTJ. But yeah, the blood boiling sounds like delta INFj/INFP. Can you prove that you are extroverted? Hrrm. I'd assume the answer is no. Well, this would reuire you to engage your shadow, which is what you typically don't use. You could try, but I don't think it would work.
> 
> Lets try this. Describe your ideal self. It could be that I am horribly over compensating my thought. Hrrm.



Don't leave me hanging dude


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Having thought about it, I believe INFP might be the best fit after all.

-Dislike conflict
-Have trouble completing things I've started
-Strong values
-Usually neutral, only picking sides if values are threatened
-Wearing a mask in public to protect myself
-Need to have a greater goal in life, just living is pointless
-Dislike conforming


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

I've read first sentence and thought Fi. :laughing: Ok, in all seriousness, ISTJ and INFP share SAME functions but ordered in a different way. That INFP description you pulled out would fit ISTJ too.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> I've read first sentence and thought Fi. :laughing: Ok, in all seriousness, ISTJ and INFP share SAME functions but ordered in a different way. That INFP description you pulled out would fit ISTJ too.


I am aware of the functions of these types. I am interested in hearing what you think would be the right type for me though. (If you could be bothered to read that wall of text )


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

I'm leaning towards stronger Te. INFPs can mature into pretty organized and focused people but when younger they are more... cloudy. Can't pick right words ugh. Fluffy? In their heads more than influencing outcomes and people?


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> I'm leaning towards stronger Te. INFPs can mature into pretty organized and focused people but when younger they are more... cloudy. Can't pick right words ugh. Fluffy? In their heads more than influencing outcomes and people?


Interesting. Would you suggest auxiliary or tertiary Te then? I'm not Te dom, since I know my sister is and I can't stand how blunt she is all the time. (Doesn't take feelings of others into consideration) 
ISTJ, ESFP, INTJ and ENFP would have balance between the two. 
ESFP is pretty much impossible since I take ages to make decisions and prefer the observer-role over an action-role.
ENFP is pretty similar to INFP, however I'm not a very social person (don't like parties, etc). I don't know if this is just my anxiety, or if I'm really an introvert.
ISTJ is quite possible. I usually avoid taking risks and do not like breaking rules. However, rules have to make sense to me. If it's illogical I will just ignore it most of the time. I'm also very indecisive, I take a lot of time making decisions and always prefer to keep options open. I cannot work in a continuous effort, since I have things I call energy spikes. I suddenly get a feeling of being fired up and then I become extremely productive. When this wears out my productivity drops massively and I cannot concentrate. I also tend to put things off for as long as possible.
INTJ I've considered many times before (thought I was one when I first got into MBTI). The overal description of the type fits me well but I have two problems with it.
1. I keep the feelings of those around me in mind when I speak (unless I feel strongly about the subject)
2. Although I can easily forsee many ways in which an event could develop, I do not get random visions of things that are going to happen in the far future. I don't know if this actually is Ni, but I read that this was the way it worked and if so, I can't relate to it.

So yeah, I'm not quite sure what to go for now.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

I am ENTP with anxiety and lotsa phobias. Extroversion in this case means something other than "like parties and seek out people". Although extroverted dominant function can (and should, if you are healthy but who is nowadays, heh... actually... many are) compel person to exhibit stereotypical "extroverted" traits, ENxPs comparing themselves to let's say Fe/Se doms, may find themselves thinking that there's no way they could be extroverted. One way to determinate whether you are I or E is by looking back at your childhood since introverted kids actually exist and are rather easy to recognize. As for your sister, I can concur that lower 2 functions don't really help that much until like 18+. I was recently forced to recognize that I was asshat and kind of a bully in a mid school. Retrospection is a bitch. 

Se is a very action-y function. It seeks to actually influence physical world. Unlike Ne which can be content exploring possibilities. As example interactions between me and my ESFP friend go something like this: he'd rather go play tennis or at least load some action video game than listen to me babbling away about my possible future career as a space outlaw. Fortunately, I like action video games too and can talk about spaceships while I play.

If you were as considerate (or at least somewhat) towards other people's feelings when you were younger I'd rule out Fi as inferior. Not sure how it manifests in children as tertiary (probably not much). If anybody can correct me on this I'd appreciate. 

That bit you wrote against you being INTJ actually plays in favor of Ne. The way my Ni dom friend describes Ni process it goes something like "empty your mind, step aside and let it come" which for me is like what my mind is never empty.

... I swear to God, I don't talk like this irl. For some reason my English is really posh. Especially when I'm sleepy and trying to make a sense.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> I am ENTP with anxiety and lotsa phobias. Extroversion in this case means something other than "like parties and seek out people". Although extroverted dominant function can (and should, if you are healthy but who is nowadays, heh... actually... many are) compel person to exhibit stereotypical "extroverted" traits, ENxPs comparing themselves to let's say Fe/Se doms, may find themselves thinking that there's no way they could be extroverted. One way to determinate whether you are I or E is by looking back at your childhood since introverted kids actually exist and are rather easy to recognize. As for your sister, I can concur that lower 2 functions don't really help that much until like 18+. I was recently forced to recognize that I was asshat and kind of a bully in a mid school. Retrospection is a bitch.
> 
> Se is a very action-y function. It seeks to actually influence physical world. Unlike Ne which can be content exploring possibilities. As example interactions between me and my ESFP friend go something like this: he'd rather go play tennis or at least load some action video game than listen to me babbling away about my possible future career as a space outlaw. Fortunately, I like action video games too and can talk about spaceships while I play.
> 
> ...


Empty your mind, like that is even possible. xD

This leaves us with an interesting situation however. So the top two functions are the only ones you use before 18, and I'm 19.
You convinced me of Ne, so that one has to be one of the two. The other one is more difficult.
For instance, when I was 15 and I had to choose which subjects to follow in high school, I took the ones most useful in the future. Most of them I disliked greatly (physics, my eternal enemy!), but I deemed it necessary anyways, because the pros far outweighed the cons (better future vs more fun now). 
I do admit I was less friendly to others when I was younger (though I was bullied a lot so that will have played a role there).
I felt like they were not worth my time, so for the most part I just kept to myself. I did really enjoy the company of some, but most of them were quite shallow (only enjoyed talking about what they did in the weekend).

Could you describe to me how you use Fe? I'm not sure on this matter and would like an example to be sure which one I use more (Fe or Fi).


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Nevermind. I have a tedency to get off track, it's one of my bad habits


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

It's not that you don't use it before 18. It's just that it's unruly. Fe can make you hyper aware of how people perceive you or alternatively be so weak that you only use it as selfish manipulative tool and not consider how other might feel about your actions. Even as you age Fe doesn't guarantee that you'll become kind and empathetic. Morality, manners and values are much taught/learned behavior.

I'd say the most useful thing I get out of Fe is navigating social situations. For example I enter the room full of people and in a short time I can figure out where everybody stands on a social ladder: this one is a follower, this one is leader, this one queen bee and so on. Additionally I can get which emotional buttons to push to get what I want out of person, get them do what I want or convince them that something is good idea. I can check how person would feel about something and act in accordance. Assume exterior behavior that would fit, figure out what I should and shouldn't say in the current interaction. It's also very reflective as in if someone is being really emotional you'll begin to feel yourself respond to that even if it's something that has nothing to do with you, something that you do not fully understand or never experienced: being swept away by celebrations, mourning, victories of other people (sports much?). The higher Fe the more natural and easier it is. Fe doms can be swept away very easily while those whose Fe is lower can resist\delay it more.

None of it means that I'm glorious master social butterfly and I make tons of wrong assumptions especially with the help of anxiety but it's something that comes natural to me. As a teen I'd often come to wrong conclusion: "If I tell this to my parents they'll hate me and be deeply disappointed" <- something that a lot would relate to, I think.

Inferior Si is just one huge problem. It skews your perspective on past experiences. In general, irl I don't like to talk about past experiences or events. Not even if they were good. It's just boring I don't care for it, lets move on. But again, I've gotten _way_ better at it. Worst is its relationship with a body: "Did it always felt like this or am I getting cancer?".









Actually my Fe didn’t get much better since my teen years but it stopped feeling like an exposed wire. It is Si that I can actually use for good now. I can look back at take what I’ve experienced into the account much easier. I’ve started rewatching movies I like and rereading books. I’m actually taking notes on things I learn which wasn’t something I did before, even in school. Well, I took some since it was required but I did it with about the same enthusiasm I’ve reserved for going into the dark basement. And then I didn’t reference them at all. Guess who had Fs in history?

If you have Si higher you'll have easier times bringing up something you've learned without looking at your notes. You'll enjoy reliving past experiences. Most simple example would be how much do you like rewatching movies, tv shows? Replaying games and rereading books? I consume few books a week and insane amount of TV shows but I get an urge to revisit any of it really, _really_ rarely. Meanwhile my INFP friend enjoys revisiting places she associates with pleasant things and time to time rereads certain really long book series she loves. It doesn't mean that you'll hate or avoid new things but it'll make repeating something into more enjoyable experience.

Again, all of this was bonkers when I was younger. Sometimes I'd get stuck rereading same books over and over while not being able to check my action against experience that I had to make sure it won't blow into my face.

---

Note my Fe is tertiary and all of this lags behind the Ti part (not touching Ne here). I first do some quick thinking and only then switch to reaction. I've always felt that I need to pause thinking to express emotionally. Usually it's just few seconds behind but it's still there and is noticeable when you interact with people that have emotional function higher in the order. Especially vs. Fe doms. When I was younger and would encounter something that I'd find especially intriguing I would get too deep into pondering and sometimes forget to react at all leading to my ENFJ mother say things like "You could at least show some emotions" and call me cold. Which would lead to me blowing up at her because I'm totally not cold I'm just slow! With he years I've gotten way better at juggling thinking and feeling as well as measuring exactly how EXCITED __ or saad __ I should act so I wouldn't actually outdo reaction of someone whose emotions I reflect and not look like a complete mad banana.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> It's not that you don't use it before 18. It's just that it's unruly. Fe can make you hyper aware of how people perceive you or alternatively be so weak that you only use it as selfish manipulative tool and not consider how other might feel about your actions. Even as you age Fe doesn't guarantee that you'll become kind and empathetic. Morality, manners and values are much taught/learned behavior.
> 
> I'd say the most useful thing I get out of Fe is navigating social situations. For example I enter the room full of people and in a short time I can figure out where everybody stands on a social ladder: this one is a follower, this one is leader, this one queen bee and so on. Additionally I can get which emotional buttons to push to get what I want out of person, get them do what I want or convince them that something is good idea. I can check how person would feel about something and act in accordance. Assume exterior behavior that would fit, figure out what I should and shouldn't say in the current interaction. It's also very reflective as in if someone is being really emotional you'll begin to feel yourself respond to that even if it's something that has nothing to do with you, something that you do not fully understand or never experienced: being swept away by celebrations, mourning, victories of other people (sports much?). The higher Fe the more natural and easier it is. Fe doms can be swept away very easily while those whose Fe is lower can resist\delay it more.
> 
> ...


I do try to adjust my expression to what is appropriate sometimes, but for the most part I only smile when I think something is funny. I've never really payed attention to 'social ladder' since I didn't care about blending in. I could easily spot who were the leaders of the group though, since they were the ones who just couldn't shut up 

When I like a song a lot I will repeat it quite often. The only time I've reread something was when I was so absent minded that I went over multiple pages without actually reading anything. Happens to me alot. I have notes lying everywhere around me, because I tend to forget things very quickly. On the computer I have made a list for the games that I've completed, the animes I've watched and the mangas I've read.

I've always had a problem coming up with quick replies to situations. If I have not prepared something to say beforehand, I will just fall apart. The fact that I ask myself "What is his intention?" or "What could he really mean?" before saying anything slows my reaction down quite a bit.

When I make plans I will usually work with milestones. A simple example: 1.Bachelor 2.Master 3.Job experience 4.Dream job.
I rarely incorporate details into these plans (like what I actually have to do in the bachelor), which has bitten me in the ass a few times already. I primarily make plans based on facts, since emotions are hard to gauge. This results in me finding out the hard way how much I actually hate the thing I have to do to get through the plan.


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## Apple Pine (Nov 27, 2014)

Accept with istj already, as it fits you best


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Answer said:


> Accept with istj already, as it fits you best


It is true that a lot of the ISTJ description fits me. However, the same can be said for the INTJ description. I'm not in a hurry, so I'll take my time to make the best decision possible.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> It is true that a lot of the ISTJ description fits me. However, the same can be said for the INTJ description. I'm not in a hurry, so I'll take my time to make the best decision possible.












Everybody loves Spock.

I'd love if there were descriptions of types from actual people of those types rather than this sort of removed vague outlines we have.


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## couldntcarelessxo (Nov 15, 2014)

you sound a bit INFJ or INFP to me. Not sure but some of the things you said although sounded on the outside like one thing (you said you were logical) it seems you had other ideas behind it.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

couldntcarelessxo said:


> you sound a bit INFJ or INFP to me. Not sure but some of the things you said although sounded on the outside like one thing (you said you were logical) it seems you had other ideas behind it.


I get where you are coming from. My mother told me once that I say something like it's a fact, while in reality, it's actually just my opinion. I don't do this consciously though.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> Everybody loves Spock.
> 
> I'd love if there were descriptions of types from actual people of those types rather than this sort of removed vague outlines we have.


Yes, the fact that they are all based on stereotypes makes things quite difficult.

I don't know how much value there is in these tests at this point, but I just took this test: Jungian Cognitive Function Quiz
and these were the results:

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||||||||||| 6.85
Introverted Intuition (Ni) |||||||||||||| 6.29
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||||| 6.15
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) ||||||||||| 4.91
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||||||||||| 4.7
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||| 2.815
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||| 1.17
Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -0.29

Most Likely: ENTJ
or Second Possibility: INTJ
or Third Possibility: INTP


The amusing thing is, is that the results seem to change every time you take the test. Makes me question how reliable these things really are.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> Yes, the fact that they are all based on stereotypes makes things quite difficult.
> 
> I don't know how much value there is in these tests at this point, but I just took this test: Jungian Cognitive Function Quiz
> and these were the results:
> ...


That particular test is interesting. It actually kind of relies on you understanding functions and what it tries to gauge from you. But by that point it's kind of a pointless. Once I've actually grasped those I get slightly different results each time but Ne and Ti are very high. 

For example the intuitive questions like:

_I get an intuitive sense for what's really going on with people or ideas._

I was like "What? I mean I guess stuff and it's often correct so err probably yes" but what's happening in my case is my throwing some possibilities, logic-ing few away and blurting out one (or few) that seems good. It's just happens so quickly that I didn't attribute it to logic because I've thought logic is thinking about something for long time until all other possibilities are exhausted. I'm not going to comment on how does Ni-Te works since every time I ask someone to explain it I get weird mumbo-jumbo answers I can't fully grasp. :tongue:

Btw my previous result is 

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) |||||||||||||||||||||||||| 12.46
Introverted Thinking (Ti) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.69
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||| 4.945
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) ||||||||| 3.98
Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||||| 3.85
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||||||||| 3.54
Introverted Feeling (Fi) ||| 0.85
Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -0.29

And I just took it again and not feeling Ni today I guess :tongue:

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 12.69
Introverted Thinking (Ti) ||||||||||||||||||||||||| 11.69
Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||||||||||||| 7.85
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) ||||||||||||| 5.75
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||| 3.6
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||||||| 2.54
Extroverted Sensation (Se) |||| 1.17
Introverted Feeling (Fi) || -0.06

And 4 months ago

Your Cognitive Functions:
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||||| 8.58
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||||||||||||||| 8.43
Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||||| 6.43
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||| 5.88
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) ||||||||| 3.68
Extroverted Sensation (Se) ||||||||| 3.57
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||||||| 3.02
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||| 0.7

Take it with a certain ton of salt for now. Not saying it can't be right but well, you see above.


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## Ninjaws (Jul 10, 2014)

Greyhart said:


> That particular test is interesting. It actually kind of relies on you understanding functions and what it tries to gauge from you. But by that point it's kind of a pointless. Once I've actually grasped those I get slightly different results each time but Ne and Ti are very high.
> 
> For example the intuitive questions like:
> 
> ...


It kinda reminds me of horoscopes. They are always right because you adjust your mind to whatever is written. ("You are going to have fun today" - How insightful).
That's the thing with the Fi questions. 

"Do you have a deep understanding of what is right or wrong?". No, I do not. There is no evil, nor is there good. Everyone acts according to his or her believes and it is not up to me to decide what is right and what is wrong. I have things I feel strongly about (chopping the rainforest for instance), but those are my values, and I do not decide what is right and what is wrong.

It's about about interpretation. It's the same thing with the question you quoted.
I often get hunches when talking to people about what their intentions are. These are not always right however.
Perhaps these are the workings of Fe, in that I can feel their mood behind the mask. I have no idea.

EDIT:
I just watched this video: 



This is exactly the way I speak. When I'm speaking my mind at times feels blank but then suddenly thing I was looking for pops up in my head. I use my hands when trying to explain something and I have a tendency to look for the right words to convey the idea as precise as possible. 
This is what confuses me the most about Ni. If this if how it works, then I can totally relate to it. 

The only visions I have is that I sometimes at night see spiders coming down from the ceiling towards me. It's annoying because they look so real that I often turn on the lights, just in case.


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## Greyhart (Oct 13, 2014)

Ninjaws said:


> That's the thing with the Fi questions.
> 
> "Do you have a deep understanding of what is right or wrong?". No, I do not. There is no evil, nor is there good. Everyone acts according to his or her believes and it is not up to me to decide what is right and what is wrong. I have things I feel strongly about (chopping the rainforest for instance), but those are my values, and I do not decide what is right and what is wrong.


I think about right or wrong on basis of logic. For example it's illogical to assume that genetic melanin levels have anything to do with personality, mental capacity or predispose someone towards one action or another just based on that. Therefore I am against racism. Heavy deforestation leads to major consequences to the ecosystem of the entire planet and since I am one of the losers bound to it I am against it.

Nationality\ethnicity presumes certain cultural impact on development of a character therefore I believe that people differ highly depending on a place or environment (including familial) they grew up in. For example gypsies are widely regarded as thieves and living in a city with a gypsy community I can tell that it is not wrong, however I also can see and understand that such negative prejudice towards a person can influence them from outside. In addition to general the attitude it _will_ be harder for them to get well-paid job. Since all people require food and medicine such limitation can lead people into the life of crime. Therefore I am against antigyspyism. (is this an actual therm for it word?).

Sorry for heavy topic but this is example of Ti-Fe values, I believe.

That video makes my brain turns on itself I need a time to process it. :crazy:

[edit] if _this_ guy is how you operate holy shit this is not Ne. I explain myself in metaphors, hyperbole or hypothetical\concrete examples therefore when I'm having a hard time laying out the idea I freeze up "Please wait, loading" and look for one of those (metaphor, example etc.) internally. Like right now. With this. ^^^


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