# Hello everyone! New INFJ from the uk.



## herinb (Aug 24, 2013)

Emergency medicine does not sound (and I am quite ignorant here) like the best place for a doctor who seeks meaningful interaction. I love me some intuition  NFs are my favorite! You need some nerdy "N" hobby...like a philosophy group or something hahaha Are you very spiritual? That's one other thing that is a mystery to me about NFs, is that they're very...spiritual 

I was actually thinking about what SJ interaction looks like to me, and I thought of something- one of my very dearest friends is ESFJ. We are suuuper close, but we have very few interests in common and I don't really understand her  Anyway, in college, I used to play poker with a group of friends at my apartment, and after she didn't come the first couple of times, I quit inviting her. Eventually she told me that she felt upset that I quit inviting her, and I said that that was a ridiculous thing to feel because she wouldn't have come anyway. But she always invited me everywhere even when she knew I wouldn't go out of loyalty or something


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

Interestingly you've fallen in the same trap I did when thinking about areas to work in - I always thought I'd get value from interacting with patient's but it's actually the people I work with who feed my need for Fe interaction, and Emergency Departments have motivated and fun people to be with. You don't get meaningful interactions from your patients in any area.

You SJ friend sounds interesting, was she SFJ by any chance? I can see how what you did would be a natural thing for an NT to do, and how it might upset an SFJ who noticed the little details of how people interact rather than the bigger picture. For me, I would want to do the same thing and not invite them, but I would suppress that and invite them anyway even though I knew it was a waste of time in case I hurt their feelings by not inviting them! When she said she had wanted to be invited did it change your behavior, your opinion of her, or both?

p.s. spiritual yes, religious - not so much


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## herinb (Aug 24, 2013)

Oh ok, you'd said that earlier and I didn't understand it very well, but I see what you mean now 

Yes, she is SFJ! I was kind of upset that she was upset about something I thought wasn't important, but ultimately I value her friendship and feelings a lot, so I definitely changed my behavior after that, and I think she realized that I hadn't intended for her to feel bad about it. It didn't change my opinion of her, I think she's great and always will. 

What differences are there between spirituality and religion? My brother is an ENFJ, and he is also not religious, but he considers himself spiritual, too! He told me this story the other day about going to a beach he had never been to at a difficult time in his life and finding three whole sand dollars in a place where they are extremely rare. He said it was very meaningful to him


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## this is my username (Apr 15, 2011)

Hello


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

this is my username said:


> Hello


Hello! Interesting username...


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

herinb said:


> What differences are there between spirituality and religion?


To me it's mainly the difference between how you feel yourself and attending or being part of an organised group of people with faith. My mum's part of a church but I think it causes more stress than it solves for her. What about you?


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## herinb (Aug 24, 2013)

I'm not religious at all, and I wish I could be spiritual, but I'm not. I think about ethics a lot and I believe in trying to be a positive influence in the world...but I don't think that's really spirituality. I guess the difference to me is prescriptive religion vs...something else? A feeling of connected-ness and significance maybe? Can you explain "spirituality" more?


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

herinb said:


> A feeling of connected-ness and significance maybe?


Maybe this, maybe feeling as if there is some amount of creative direction at work in the universe beyond the basic probabilities of physics. I'm really not sure - self examination in a totally introspective way is generally a bit of an INFJ weakness and I'm no exception. I can tell you how I feel, or what I'll do or how I'll behave, but actually getting right down to the actionless pure centre of an idea like spirituality is really hard for me :frustrating:

Maybe it is as simple as believing not just that you should be a positive influence on the world, but that there is a reason you should be... Do you know what drives you to think that you should?


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## herinb (Aug 24, 2013)

Spirituality a difficult concept to wrap semantics around! Thank you  What drives me to want to be a positive influence in the world? In general, I like people, fairness, and happiness, and I do not like suffering, fear, or unhappiness. So naturally, I want there to be maximum fairness and happiness in the world and I don't want others to experience suffering, fear, and unhappiness. Also, from a selfish prospective, to change things for the better is the highest from of success-being a maximizer of utility and all that  Would you say that spirituality "drives" you?


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## OldManRivers (Mar 22, 2012)

Welcome, andyj, from another INFJ, retired mental health social worker/therapist. I went back to school (I was a chemist in product and manufacturing process development - did OK, did not like it. ) and got a master's in social work, later LCSW.
Just fine for an INFJ with an analytical work background. I learned early on to ask leading questions, read body language, have empathy for the client - even a delusional schizophrenic wants to be treated with respect and not as a joke. I also have hospice experience. In the US, the medical field seems most about making money. That is a difficulty that led to my retirement before I really wanted to. The old TV western that gave Clont Eastwood his first widespread exposure, "Rawhide," centered on a cattle drive had in its theme song, "Don't try to understand'em, Just rope, throw and brand'em. . . " and that seemed to be management's treatment philosophy in for profit agencies.

I most enjoyed a state hospital for the criminally insane - and did some very rewarding work, by listening, figuring out what was going on with the patient. A man with speech aphasia was erronously diagnosed as delusional because of his slow speech, work-around manner of getting around a word that would not come to him - 
My assessment got him a re evaluation by the psychologist, a court date and orders to transfer to a civil hospital. Ten years of bad diagnoses . . because nobody listened.

Again, Welcome!


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## this is my username (Apr 15, 2011)

andyj said:


> Hello! Interesting username...


I'm a creative spirit, what can i say.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

i'm a big fan of INFJs. hey there!


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Welcome from another UK INFJ 

I'm a performing artist and coach (I lecture/train in an HE environment), but I currently also study counselling psychology. When I started, I thought it was a grand idea because the performing arts are really a psychological minefield, and I wanted to be able to support my peeps in that department as well. I think I always gravitated towards that side anyway, I have too much empathy (I really need to step back sometimes to protect myself). 
Meanwhile though, I'm not sure if I'll finish. It's really a lot - working full time, having a few creative jobs on the side I don't want to give up (I also write), not to mention a private life.

So at the moment, I feel a bit like: "Stuff psychology." It's not that I want to change jobs, so I don't really need the degree or formal accreditation. I'm just an anal perfectionist though and sometimes have this "You finish what you started"-thing going on. Not to mention the money I feel I'd be putting down the drain. So my head tells me to keep going, but my gut tells me otherwise. I have an inkling the gut might win this time


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## Vianna (Jul 28, 2012)

Hi! You sound interesting, I also like performing arts.


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## Marla_S (Jun 26, 2013)

- Welcome!


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## Jebediah (Mar 27, 2013)

Mr. CafeBot said:


> *You are hearing a robotic sounding voice coming towards you*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is this automated or are you a real boy?


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

FallingSlowly said:


> Welcome from another UK INFJ


Yay - more people! I honestly think I have only ever met one other possible INFJ and I didn't them especially well



> not to mention a private life.


This is the bit that loosing out in my current attempt to keep everything balanced...



> So at the moment, I feel a bit like: "Stuff psychology." It's not that I want to change jobs, so I don't really need the degree or formal accreditation. I'm just an anal perfectionist though and sometimes have this "You finish what you started"-thing going on. Not to mention the money I feel I'd be putting down the drain. So my head tells me to keep going, but my gut tells me otherwise. I have an inkling the gut might win this time


I know what that feels like. My first degree was pretty much like that for the whole three years, saved only by the fact that it was a totally new course and I got to play with the development of the course and the people on it, which kept me interested long enough to graduate!

Could you put the psychology on hold rather than ditching it entirely?


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

andyj said:


> This is the bit that loosing out in my current attempt to keep everything balanced...


Hope it falls into place - that's really the one thing I'm not willing to compromise on anymore, and I feel all the better for it.



> I know what that feels like. My first degree was pretty much like that for the whole three years, saved only by the fact that it was a totally new course and I got to play with the development of the course and the people on it, which kept me interested long enough to graduate!


Ha ha, my first degree was in Geology (yeah, I know ), even took it to postgraduate level and worked in research for a short while. Hated every minute of it, not least because inside, I was always a performing artist (I never wanted to be anything else since my childhood). I play multiple instruments, I act and dance, but when it was crunch-time, I had no self-confidence and not much support to do anything artistic, so I went for something "decent".
Well, I still got something out of it - savings that funded my second degree (M.A. in Performing Arts). Never looked back since...



> Could you put the psychology on hold rather than ditching it entirely?


Yes. Just worried that once I let it slide, I really won't get back into it because that's likely to happen considering the way I feel about it at the moment. It's a bit like dragging out the unavoidable. 
I gave myself time until Christmas to decide and will keep on going until then - very half-arsed at the moment


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

FallingSlowly said:


> Hope it falls into place - that's really the one thing I'm not willing to compromise on anymore, and I feel all the better for it.


That's pretty much how I feel at the moment, and sort of how I ended up here I guess. There is going to come a point I suspect where my job and my social Fe side are going to have a big falling out, but unfortunately I can't afford (as in, cash afford) for that to happen at the moment unfortunately. Depressingly, I also happen to be quite good at what I do, so the temptation to leave is always tempered by the motivational power of finding something very easy and feeling in control of your life and environment.

How on earth (pun not intended) did you get through your masters? I was in the same boat with engineering but I would never have considered carrying on with it!


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

andyj said:


> How on earth (pun not intended) did you get through your masters? I was in the same boat with engineering but I would never have considered carrying on with it!


You know, I've asked myself that question many times - I've no real idea 
I guess a mix of not having enough trust in my artistic abilities (totally stupid in hindsight), and sadly also having been a really good student, therefore having been encouraged by absolutely everyone around me to carry on. Fatal mix.

I understand what you say about the temptation to leave vs. a feeling of being in control. Change is scary, and I felt like that for a quite a while until everything came crashing down like a ton of bricks. I guess I just had to get to the point of noticing the hard way that financial stability and a fake sense of security weren't worth throwing away my emotional, mental and social wellbeing.

All's well that ends well: I think the whole experience sort of makes me value how lucky I am to be where I am today, both professionally and in my private life.


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## emmamadden (Jul 7, 2013)

yoooooooo INFJs are a rare species, esp male ones. So nice to meet you Andy, we're opposites.


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

herinb said:


> Spirituality a difficult concept to wrap semantics around! Thank you  What drives me to want to be a positive influence in the world? In general, I like people, fairness, and happiness, and I do not like suffering, fear, or unhappiness. So naturally, I want there to be maximum fairness and happiness in the world and I don't want others to experience suffering, fear, and unhappiness. Also, from a selfish prospective, to change things for the better is the highest from of success-being a maximizer of utility and all that  Would you say that spirituality "drives" you?


I don't think it is spirituality, unless that is somehow also what you carry as your intrinsic sense of right and wrong. I actually tend to be quite questioning of absolute right/wrong concepts and pre-conceptions, and so perhaps my drive is quite utilitarian also. I do tend to base that utility around how it's experienced by other people though, so something that makes a net balance of people more happy is "right" and reducing net happiness is "wrong". Fairness is much less of a concern for me, as I always have trouble with what it actually means anyway. How do you think practicing law will fit in to your model?


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

emmamadden said:


> yoooooooo INFJs are a rare species, esp male ones. So nice to meet you Andy, we're opposites.


Nice to meet you too. Always wanted to visit LA (had to look at your profile to find out which "opposite" you were ;-)


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## herinb (Aug 24, 2013)

andyj said:


> I don't think it is spirituality, unless that is somehow also what you carry as your intrinsic sense of right and wrong. I actually tend to be quite questioning of absolute right/wrong concepts and pre-conceptions, and so perhaps my drive is quite utilitarian also. I do tend to base that utility around how it's experienced by other people though, so something that makes a net balance of people more happy is "right" and reducing net happiness is "wrong". Fairness is much less of a concern for me, as I always have trouble with what it actually means anyway. How do you think practicing law will fit in to your model?


After working in mental health for only two years, I witnessed a suspension/interruption of mental and behavioral health services in my state for kids and adults that has been going on since July. And it's all based on a pissing contest between CEOs and completely ignorant appointed cabinet members-which is very unfair. These are the kind of things that make me want to do civil rights and advocacy stuff as a lawyer. I think I'll have plenty of ethical worries, just like always, but it will be worth it  I actually agree with you-I don't necessarily always think fairness is always important either, just in those cases when it causes unhappiness. So does spirituality have anything to do with right and wrong for you?


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## emmamadden (Jul 7, 2013)

Yeah it's pretty fun out here. I've always wanted to visit the UK and I might study abroad there when I'm in college. 

sent you a friend request if you're cool with that


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

emmamadden said:


> Yeah it's pretty fun out here. I've always wanted to visit the UK and I might study abroad there when I'm in college.
> 
> sent you a friend request if you're cool with that


Of course, that's fine 

Whats your plan for college?


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## Tuscan Dreamscape (Feb 18, 2013)

herinb said:


> My brother is an ENFJ, and he will tell me about these weird emotional undercurrents that are going at some social gathering that, to him, clearly indicate that something is going on between two or more people.


This is an amazing ability that ENFJ's and even some ENTJ's have.


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## herinb (Aug 24, 2013)

Are you one of those ENTJs?  I've only every noticed it in NFs, but sometimes, especially on this forum, I tend to overgeneralize based on Myers Briggs types  I am so oblivious to that kind of thing unless it is totally obvious! Well maybe not completely oblivious- I think I get a kind of subconscious uncomfortable niggling that I subconsciously discount because my intuition in those instances isn't always correct :S


edit: Oops! Sorry, I meant to "quote" you, Shimmering Softspoken 1


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## marycontrary (Oct 11, 2013)

Hi Andy!


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## Tuscan Dreamscape (Feb 18, 2013)

Greetings, andyj!!!


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Yay another INFJ from the UK. Welcome!


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

herinb said:


> Are you one of those ENTJs?  I've only every noticed it in NFs, but sometimes, especially on this forum, I tend to overgeneralize based on Myers Briggs types  I am so oblivious to that kind of thing unless it is totally obvious! Well maybe not completely oblivious- I think I get a kind of subconscious uncomfortable niggling that I subconsciously discount because my intuition in those instances isn't always correct :S
> 
> 
> edit: Oops! Sorry, I meant to "quote" you, Shimmering Softspoken 1


i think NFs are more likely to feel and be concious of it. I'd really like to know how SFPs feeling works in these settings and how they are aware of what they notice in others. I'm really good at noticing how things are going between people, but really really bad at articulating why I feel that way.


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Yay another INFJ from the UK. Welcome!


Thank you! :happy:


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## stormgirl (May 21, 2013)

Welcome:happy:


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## mbemma (Oct 12, 2013)

Hello! I'm an INFJ too! To be honest, sometimes I pretend to be an ENxP too...:frustrating:


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

mbemma said:


> Hello! I'm an INFJ too! To be honest, sometimes I pretend to be an ENxP too...:frustrating:


Any particular situations or settings that make you do that?


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## mbemma (Oct 12, 2013)

andyj said:


> Any particular situations or settings that make you do that?


When I'm meeting a lot of people at the same time and I become really nervous to the point that I start to fake my personality so that everyone would find it easier to get along with me.  It doesn't happen often, only when I haven't had much social interaction in a really long time


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## andyj (Oct 3, 2013)

mbemma said:


> When I'm meeting a lot of people at the same time and I become really nervous to the point that I start to fake my personality so that everyone would find it easier to get along with me.  It doesn't happen often, only when I haven't had much social interaction in a really long time


Really interesting - I know exactly what you mean, especially if I haven't been in a group environment for a while.


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