# Fe explained to Fi



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Fe users.... thank you for sharing in advance. 
I would like for Fe explained to Fi users. 
Please keep in mind that Fi or Fe are equal, but different. One function is not better than the other. Both are our feelings and values and are precious and give meaning to life. Both deserve to be honored!

Please do Fe justice. Bring links to the floor and examples as needed to help you explain what it is like. If the questions below help, then good. If you want to take your own path in explaining, please do. 

How do you experience your feelings and values?
What is your experience as you empathize/sympathize with others?
How do you make decisions based on Fe? 

http://personalitycafe.com/nfs-temperament-forum-dreamers/5996-extraverted-feeling.html


----------



## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

I have a secondary question for Fe users - _why_ is Fe a good approach to a problem? That's what I have difficulty understanding.


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> I have a secondary question for Fe users - _why_ is Fe a good approach to a problem? That's what I have difficulty understanding.


hey Brightflashes, I remember the Ni explained to Ne and the switch. Where WERE those? Do you think we could find the links?


----------



## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

Alesha said:


> hey Brightflashes, I remember the Ni explained to Ne and the switch. Where WERE those? Do you think we could find the links?


http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/1169297-ne-explained-ni-doms.html

Beating @brightflashes to it.

Also http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/1171409-ni-vs-ne-creative-exercise.html

I'm not aware of the reverse thread.

Also come on, there has to be Fe users willing to start the conversation?


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

http://personalitycafe.com/infj-for...-do-infjs-experince-emotion.html#post39866058

Pertinent. There's actually a lot of pertinent thoughts and things being written right now. Just need to bring it here. 

Like okay, if you read the description in the first post, do you think it's accurate?


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

> I have a secondary question for Fe users - why is Fe a good approach to a problem? That's what I have difficulty understanding.


Why wouldn't it be (especially when it comes to very personal/relational problems)? Considering how your choices will affect others in the grand scheme of things is important when it comes to other people's growth. Growth is something I prioritize a lot (In others and in myself). If we are to ever transcend the trappings of our egos, then we must learn to become more self-aware and grow. I also genuinely care about others. Fe helps to know when to say things and what the appropriate things to say in order to reach a person (speak their language). This can be extremely valuable when it comes to bonding with someone, forming relationships, playing mediator, building a bridge in understanding or mending a conflict. When you have multiple people cooperating together, you are also stronger together than you are alone. This is also extremely valuable. You know the saying - "two heads are better than one." Sometimes you need to get someone to calm down in order to solve a problem. You can tap into this through Fe. It depends on the context but the scenarios are endless. Fill in the blanks.

*How do you experience your feelings and values?*
My values tend to be constantly shaped and refined through patterns I've observed through things I've witnessed or experienced and with this data - reasoning through why something is right or wrong etc. It has to be consistent (logically sound) for me to accept it. Other people's perspectives/experiences (hearing about them) and my experience with them come into the picture of course. I adopt the parts of other people's truths to build my own system of internal values. Everyone has some valuable piece of truth to share even if they are not living in truth you can learn about truth from seeing the opposite of it there (falsehoods).

Sometimes if I suppress a certain feeling about something for too long, it unexpectedly comes to the surface in different ways when I'm alone. I usually experience it very viscerally and need to release it through crying or channeling rage in a healthy way. Writing or even exercise can help with that. It depends on what it is. It tends to be easier for me to feel my own emotions or understand them when I am on my own because when I'm around other people, I'm generally more focused on their stuff than my own. So it's not that I don't know what my feelings are, they just get temporarily pushed to the side until it's time for me to focus on them or I'm with a person where it's safe to express them and they don't feel burdened by them. 

For more on how I experience my feelings, you can read about that in these threads:


http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/1193026-how-do-infjs-experince-emotion-4.html


http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/1192122-infjs-poems.html


http://personalitycafe.com/infj-for...-fe-play-role-your-thinking.html#post39865922


*What is your experience as you empathize/sympathize with others?*

If someone is telling me a story about themselves, I imagine it in my head, seeing them in whatever scenario they are describing. I feel what they are feeling (or what I think they are feeling/describing) and absorb it instantly in that moment. It's like seeing the world through the other person's eyes temporarily. You channel them and forget yourself. Sometimes I even hear their own voice in my head as if I'm narrating everything from their perspective. That's how I understand someone. I feel it in my body and I gladly take it on as my own. It's an honor to witness someone in such a vulnerable state. I find it inspiring and it helps me be more confident in sharing my own vulnerabilities. It is beautiful.

Now, I should note that I sometimes have trouble empathizing with people in the moment because I tend to detach and get too focused on the bigger picture sometimes. Like it takes me time to process sometimes. Almost like a delayed reaction. I think this is because I go into analytical mode quite a bit so I'm analyzing from a more detached place. Also, I've read that you cannot technically be empathetic and analytical in the same exact moment. So, it takes me time to make that shift. When I'm by myself though and have time to think in silence, and I have had an adequate amount of time to integrate what that person just shared with me, I'm able to fully feel what they are feeling/felt and I have my moment of realization where I totally understand why they are upset and how to mend things if I initially didn't understand fully. Other times I go into the detached/logical state as a way to balance things if the other person is extremely emotional. Sometimes this makes things better or worse depending on the person! lol 

I've often fallen back on trying to cheer the person up or wanting to solve other people's problems but everyone is different in the type of comfort they want. Most people appreciate empathy. I don't often think of the approach to merely reflect what the person is feeling back at them because it almost feels too simple and easy. Why do I sometimes think it has to be complicated? It's amazing how just simply mirroring a person's feelings back to them like, "oh man, that sucks" (even if you don't mean or feel it - but I DO mean it when I reflect) can do a world of good. It makes the person feel heard and like they are not alone and like we are on the same side. It's important for people to feel that type of human connection. It's painful without it. And really, I'm the same way. I appreciate simple empathy too.

I just try to follow and feel out the person's thought pattern and get on the same wavelength as them if I can. I do this by asking a lot of questions, gathering information to gain a sense for the whole picture. Other times I will hug (if we're close) or offer them a different way of looking at things/some insight that I think will help. If the person's negative mood is stressing me out too much though, I tend to detach and go into problem solving mode which is quite selfish and useless if the person already came up with the solutions I came up with. Other people's emotions sometimes stress me out because I easily absorb them into my system. If I'm not already in a positive mood myself, they have the potential to bring me down if I'm not careful. Usually nothing fruitful comes out of me being in a stressed out state especially with my INFJ hubby because he also so easily absorbs my emotions even if I'm not verbalizing them. 

It's also easy for me to fall into losing myself in another person and losing track of where I begin and another person ends. I've had trouble with boundaries in the past due to wanting to be close. But sometimes I've lost myself in the process and I've ended up in a bad place. When I finally realize this and break free though, it's extremely liberating. Ti has protected me a lot. Learning what the different logical fallacies are so I don't fall for people's hypocrisy/inconsistencies or flawed ideas. Ni probably helps with this too though and I am probably mistaking one for the other at times. Ultimately, I can't be friends with someone when I catch myself not sharing any of myself with the person or when the person doesn't really get me. Been there, done that. It's not worth it because there are people in the world who will very much get you and be on the same wavelength as you. Why invest in something that isn't worth it? Better for us both to benefit. I tend to look at relationships in this way because it's better for both parties if you analyze it initially so you spare each other pain in the long run if you're not compatible.

I take on other people's stuff as if it's my own. I do genuinely enjoy helping people. When someone's pain becomes your pain - it's not like it's hard to help. It becomes an immediate desire. I have learned over time that it's not my job to save everyone though and how arrogant that perspective kind of is. I used to worry too much about other people in negative mental states. I would fall into despair if someone else was depressed. It was heavy. Since then, I've decided that suffering is a gift in its own way and even if I could save someone from their own pit of despair, I'd be robbing them of an important lesson they probably need to learn on their own. Most people will be okay in time. But it does no good if we're both feeling like crap. I need to take care to center myself as well. It is easier for me to build a person up when I already feel positive and built up myself.

Dealing with another person's vulnerablities is a delicate dance. Sometimes you accidentally hit a nerve and their shame comes spilling out. You try to reassure them, build trust but this can't be forced. Sometimes they put up a wall. I will determine if this relationship is worth continuing to invest in or perhaps my energy will be better used some where else. There is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes two people just aren't very compatible. I hate feling like I am walking on eggshells all the time when it comes to volatile emotions. At the same time though, I tend to be very patient too. It's a fine line, I suppose. I am a sensitive person but I try not to be self-centered and make everything about me. I feel bad when I do. Sharing my emotions is all about the right timing. Sometimes the other person isn't in the right place emotionally to be receptive to your own stuff. Just listen and let them vent. And now it's my turn. In a healthy relationship there is an equal amount of give and take. Sometimes you're the strong one and other times, they are.

*How do you make decisions based on Fe? *
I like to come to a consensus and for everyone to be happy (assuming it's that type of situation where everyone can be happy - usually with more surface stuff like deciding what to eat etc.). However, overall I care more about the person's growth than anything else when it comes to the bigger issues. This can lead to some decisions that might seem cold to others on the outside - especially if they are not yet in the place where they can understand where I'm coming from. It is what it is. I don't mind being the villain in their little play if that's where they're at. It's doesn't reflect my character. They may never come to understand that I did consider them (and everyone else - including myself) when making that very "cold" decision. It may not be in the way that they wanted but at least I try to do what I feel they need. I care about other people but I also care about myself too. If I can't love myself, it's impossible for me to love other people. So it's important to make self-love a priority. What this entails is just supporting wellness and growth within myself. I believe that's what love is. 

I would also say when it comes to setting or enforcing my boundaries. If someone steps over the line (with their behavior), I don't mind confronting them if I feel it's warranted. I usually give people multiple chances to change on their own or to realize things on their own and if they don't, they'll probably eventually get a piece of my mind. I don't like conflict but I dislike a lack of closure even more. I'm just going to be obsessing over the problem with the person in my head anyway if I don't express it (assuming it is worth it to me - I guess this is Fi at play too).

I tend to be aware of other people's needs a lot which causes me to feel pressured sometimes or pulled into too many different directions (spread too thin) if there's too many people. Since I'm an introvert, I see quality over quantity in connections as being better so I try to be more selective about who I choose to connect with because my energy is more limited.

I hear other people's voices in my head a lot (no, not in that way ) - their opinions, what I think they will say. How do they see me? How do they see themselves? What would they say? Yada yada yada. Sometimes this is in a negative way and very exhausting. If it's at that point where I realize I'm obsessing or need more alone time to be able to hear my own voice again and get the nagging self-doubt inflicted by the other voices to shut up. Then everything becomes peaceful and clear once again and I can view things from the high mount of Ni which is my happy place. When it is positive, I just like talking to other people in my head. Lots of pretend conversations. I think about my relationships with other people a lot. Or analyze past conversation or future ones we could have. I think about fictional characters in shows and analyze them. I analyze myself, what everything means. This is invigorating for me. I desire to understand people. Understanding others helps me understand myself better too and vise versa.

I also like bonding with people over the things they like. If they share it with me, I will try to see the value in it and enjoy it with them. And also try to understand why they like it. Lets share something together. 

Anyways, I think the rest of my responses explain the other ways I make decisions based on Fe too.

[Apologies if any of this came out convoluted or redundant sounding].
-------------
Now I'm off to read the Fi thread!


----------



## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

@Vivid Melody

I understanding doing something because one "genuinely cares". I don't understand why someone would do this otherwise, though. I have enough to take care of without getting tied up in other people's emotional business. I would find doing something like that taxing and exhausting and depleting internal resources I'd rather save for myself and my family. I suppose this probably sounds harsh, but, to me, if it doesn't make sense and if it's not efficient, I don't see the use in doing it. Further, I've learned to deal with my emotions. I find it difficult to imagine other adults not being able to do this by themselves.


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

@*brightflashes*



> I understanding doing something because one "genuinely cares". I don't understand why someone would do this otherwise, though. I have enough to take care of without getting tied up in other people's emotional business. I would find doing something like that taxing and exhausting and depleting internal resources I'd rather save for myself and my family.


Well I typically genuinely enjoy it as well but it's satisfying in part, because I care but also because I feel like I'm fulfilling something I'm good at? If that makes sense. Usually we enjoy doing the things we are good at or feel like we have a calling for. I enjoy solving or helping with people problems. People and their emotional dramas/problems have always genuinely interested me. I'm interested in understanding them and feeling apart of it and helping if I can. It's a fine line though and I don't think it's healthy to over extend yourself, neglect other priorities in the process or for someone to become over reliant on you. It's better for a person to learn how to become independent and learn how to love themselves but sometimes people aren't there yet and they need to lean on you before they learn to walk or run again. Even so, no one is completely self-sufficient or an island even when they are in a good place. I'm not either. It's nice to have that support whenever you are struggling. The exception would be with a toxic person who would take advantage of this. In that case, it's certainly better to cut ties. But I've always enjoyed helping people talk out their pain if I can and just acting as a sounding board. It's a good release for them (people often have the answers to their problems deep within themselves if you lead them in the right direction anyway) and I like diving into other people's heads. If I feel like I'm over doing it, then I stop and take down time for myself *shrugs*



> I suppose this probably sounds harsh, but, to me, if it doesn't make sense and if it's not efficient, I don't see the use in doing it. Further, I've learned to deal with my emotions. I find it difficult to imagine other adults not being able to do this by themselves.


It doesn't sound harsh to me and I can understand how that would be - especially from an INTJ perspective.


----------



## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

@Vivid Melody

Thank you for going into so much detail here, not only about Fe, but also your dedication to answering my question. You've given me some things to think about. I can certainly understand the attraction to practice what one is good at - it is fulfilling. I'm also interested in human behavior, but perhaps from a different angle. I would imagine our interest crosses at some point, though. Again, thanks for the information you have shared with us. : )


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

brightflashes said:


> Thank you for going into so much detail here, not only about Fe, but also your dedication to answering my question. You've given me some things to think about. I can certainly understand the attraction to practice what one is good at - it is fulfilling. I'm also interested in human behavior, but perhaps from a different angle. I would imagine our interest crosses at some point, though. Again, thanks for the information you have shared with us. : )


You're very welcome  And yes, I would imagine so. I used to have a close INTJ friend and it was always fun/interesting to compare notes with her


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

@Vivid Melody thank you for helping Fi to understand Fe. Much appreciated...and maybe brave...? Lol. I don’t know.


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

@Alesha

Sure thing  I hope I did it some justice seeing as the other xNFJ's are currently in hiding


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

I was searching for some examples... Here’s the same subject (unrequited love) with Fi expression and (I believe) Fe expression. Let me know if you (hopefully plural, right @Vivid Melody?) think I got it right. Both beautiful, relatable, artistic, to any Feeling person (probably could chip through Thinkers too to their tert or inferior function) and my hypothesis is that Fe and Fi need each other, or in any case thrive together. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VjfmP7h3gBw

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zmK1H6EXUYs


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

@Alesha

I'm assuming "On My Own" = Fe and "I Can't Make You Love Me" = Fi? If so, I think those are good examples.


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Vivid Melody said:


> @Alesha
> 
> I'm assuming "On My Own" = Fe and "I Can't Make You Love Me" = Fi? If so, I think those are good examples.


Lol the exact opposite. Lol. Fi= On My Own...a focus on her personal feelings that she only expresses when alone to herself. Fe= I Can’t Make You Love Me— speaking to the one beloved and with an emphasis on the beloved,s feelings/stance, and not expressed to herself alone. Lol.... See? We understand each other well enough... lol. Or can empathize with each other well enough. 

I could have written “On My Own”, Easily and am slightly embarrassed at the personal expression. With “I Can’t Make You Love Me” I would have never thought to write a song that described my feelings through discussing someone else’s. It’s very appreciated though. I love both songs... the cringing I get from “On My Own” is the same cringing I get whenever i express something very personal and negative.
Both songs make me feel, but it’s easy to see which one I could easily write and which one I wouldn’t have thought of. @Vivid Melody if there are 8 functions we developed, then I think you have a bit of Fi developed. I saw it when you described what you felt in a Forrest and on your own. Sorry if that may seem unsettling? I don’t know...Maybe kind of like I feel I’ve got a bit of Ni developed, but Fe is new territory, my Fi is very introverted, maybe hardly any Fe development at all in me. Maybe I can change this now I can imagine Fe a bit better. ; ). Brave indeed! Thank you, hun.


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

Alesha said:


> Lol the exact opposite. Lol. On My Own...a focus on her personal feelings that she only expresses when alone to herself. I Can’t Make You Love Me— speaking to the one beloved and with an emphasis on the beloved,s feelings/stance, and not expressed to herself alone. Lol.... See? We understand each other well enough... lol


Lol, that's pretty funny. I actually related to the other song more which is probably due to the imagined scenarios when alone. Maybe because I lead with Ni? I think the focus there is still on the object of affection since she's pretending he's beside her the entire time. She also says she's aware that he's blind (so she is aware of how he feels) but she doesn't care and continues to fantasize and believe that there's a way for them to be together. So yeah, I guess it's either/or. Really depends more so on the individual  The first one is more hopeful/idealistic which is why I can relate to it more, as an NF.


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

@*Alesha*

Since you edited and I didn't see the last bit until now 



> I could have written “On My Own”, Easily and am slightly embarrassed at the personal expression. With “I Can’t Make You Love Me” I would have never thought to write a song that described my feelings through discussing someone else’s. It’s very appreciated though. I love both songs... the cringing I get from “On My Own” is the same cringing I get whenever i express something very personal and negative.
> 
> Both songs make me feel, but it’s easy to see which one I could easily write and which one I wouldn’t have thought of.


I'm probably biased because I like the song, "On My Own" better. The lyrics are more powerful, in my opinion. But yeah, it's subjective. I could have probably written either song - meaning similar styles. Maybe that sounds arrogant to say? But I don't mean it that way.


That's interesting that it made you cringe. I thought it was really beautiful even though it's tragic. Even though there's sorrow there, it's very relateable to a lot of people, probably. I dunno, I just find it to be powerful. I feel for the girl in the song too but it doesn't make me overly sad. I find it to be bittersweet. But I think that when you turn your sorrow into a song like that, it's always bittersweet in a way because Art is beauty.



> if there are 8 functions we developed, then I think you have a bit of Fi developed. I saw it when you described what you felt in a Forrest and on your own. Sorry if that may seem unsettling? I don’t know...Maybe kind of like I feel I’ve got a bit of Ni developed, but Fe is new territory, my Fi is very introverted, maybe hardly any Fe development at all in me. Maybe I can change this now I can imagine Fe a bit better. ; ). Brave indeed! Thank you, hun.


No, it's not unsettling lol. In Socionics, INFJ's and INFP's both have strong Ni/Fi but one values Ni and the other values Fi. I thought that made sense. Sometimes it's hard to discern the difference between Ni/Fe and Fi too because I think they can look similar on the outside. Same for Fi/Ne - seeming like Ni to some people.


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Vivid Melody said:


> @*Alesha*
> 
> Since you edited and I didn't see the last bit until now
> 
> ...


And the fact that you feel you could have written both...okay good, glad you didn’t have an identity crisis like my imagination wondered about as a possibility. “On My Own”is much more powerful, but all Fi confessions are difficult for us. I bawl my eyes out every time I hear “On My Own” but it’s definitely Fi... and if Fe can’t relate to Fi, then there would be a huge failing in Fe as a function. Luckily ‘it’s not so. I mean....Fe is built to detect and seek out feelings, right? So it should understand strong Fi as Strong Fi, which is what “On My Own” is. Fi= Someone’s very strong personal emotion, emotion not involved or mixed with someone elses’s feelings, but often in reaction to them, experienced Introvertedly. Yeah, expression of Fi takes trust...so I often feel like just hiding this song from most and experiencing it on my own. I remember watching all of Les Miserable with my parents and still feeling like I wanted to watch it under a blanket. Cried the whole way through, did not feel it should be shared....yeah... I do share on here, obviously...but believe me it’s with trust in my heart. NFs and beloved Ts only.


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

@*Alesha*



> And the fact that you feel you could have written both...okay good, glad you didn’t have an identity crisis like my imagination wondered about as a possibility.


Haha  I believe that we all see with all of the 8 functions anyway so it makes sense that we are capable of tapping into our non preferred functions. We wouldn't be able to function (no pun intended ) otherwise. 



> “On My Own”is much more powerful, but all Fi confessions are difficult for us. I bawl my eyes out every time I hear “On My Own” but it’s definitely Fi... and if Fe can’t relate to Fi, then there would be a huge failing in Fe as a function. Luckily ‘it’s not so. I mean....Fe is built to detect and seek out feelings, right? So it should understand strong Fi as Strong Fi, which is what “On My Own” is.


Yes, I feed off of the raw/passionate emotions of others  Like a vampire but not in a bad way lol. I often go outside of myself to stimulate my own feelings if that makes sense.





> Fi= Someone’s very strong personal emotion, emotion not involved or mixed with someone elses’s feelings, but often in reaction to them, experienced Introvertedly. Yeah, expression of Fi takes trust...


Anything that makes you feel vulnerable will require trust to share and I think that is true for all types but it does seem like FP's in particular - do have a harder time opening up. Like with my INFP brother, it can be like pulling teeth to get him to share stuff he's struggling with even when he knows it will help him feel better once he does. I can be like this too but my withdrawal times are much shorter than his. Usually in that time period, I'm planning out how to express what it is I'm thinking/feeling in a way that those close to me will understand. My INFP brother just tells you every single detail of his feelings, in chronological order lol. I'll try to tell you the main highlights and it may or may not be in chronological order. 



> so I often feel like just hiding this song from most and experiencing it on my own. I remember watching all of Les Miserable with my parents and still feeling like I wanted to watch it under a blanket. Cried the whole way through, did not feel it should be shared....yeah... I do share on here, obviously...but believe me it’s with trust in my heart. NFs and beloved Ts only.


I imagine that song holds a special place in your heart <3 I can relate to what you talk about here to some extent. I get like that sometimes with songs. When a song is powerful to me, I almost don't want to share it with others because it becomes sacred and if they don't like it or don't feel it as powerfully as I do, it feels like something sacred has been tainted and I can never enjoy that thing ever again because the whole time I'm going to be thinking about how they think/feel about it rather than how I originally felt about it. It's annoying that this happens which is why I said I need my alone time to clear myself of the voices I don't want to hear any more. Other people get inside my head a bit too easily because I start over-empathizing with their perspectives. And this becomes even more magnified if I respect the person.


----------



## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

@Alesha

Have you heard the 10th anniversary concert version of les miserables?
A few months ago when I was feeling a bit conflicted, I instinctively went for it, lol. I actually ended up ordering it from abroad because it was hard to get (both CDs and DVD, lol), although it requires a sort of special mood for me. But Colm Wilkonson (Jean Valjean) and Philip Quast (Javert) is special to see. Eponine is also good in that version IMO.
@Vivid Melody
To the best of my knowledge there are only 4 functions, in two orientations, your ego simply has a preferred orientation.

How do you deal with extensive vs intensive contacts? I once had a situation where I was mildly emotional, and an INFJ proceeded to try to "bleed it out". And then I was ready to really talk, and the motivation was not there to deepen the topic because the obvious emotions were gone. I admit this was a work context (although pretty close for work), but I could have easily dealt with those emotions myself. Or go all the way and talk about what was really on my mind.

How do you sync up the emotional energy into something sustainable (energy giving for both people)?


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Vivid Melody said:


> @*Alesha*
> 
> Haha  I believe that we all see with all of the 8 functions anyway so it makes sense that we are capable of tapping into our non preferred functions. We wouldn't be able to function (no pun intended ) otherwise.
> 
> ...


This is a really good description, I think, of what Fi and Fe in a person together would feel like. <3 Thanks for the interactions and empathy today! Friending you if I havnt before. =)


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

HumanBeing said:


> @Alesha
> 
> Have you heard the 10th anniversary concert version of les miserables?
> A few months ago when I was feeling a bit conflicted, I instinctively went for it, lol. I actually ended up ordering it from abroad because it was hard to get (both CDs and DVD, lol), although it requires a sort of special mood for me. But Colm Wilkonson (Jean Valjean) and Philip Quast (Javert) is special to see. Eponine is also good in that version IMO.


Agreed! Its the best recording! Fontine awesome, Marius awesome. Lea Salonga as Eponine. Colm Wilkinson is the best Valjean for sure and Phillip Quast best Javert.


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

@*Alesha*

Aw, any time  I think you already have friended me to which I am grateful 


@*HumanBeing*



> To the best of my knowledge there are only 4 functions, in two orientations, your ego simply has a preferred orientation.


That's how I understood it as well. You just worded it better than me 



> How do you deal with extensive vs intensive contacts?


What do you mean by extensive/intensive contacts?





> I once had a situation where I was mildly emotional, and an INFJ proceeded to try to "bleed it out".


I assume by trying to "bleed it out" you mean the INFJ was trying to get you to open up about it so you'd feel better? 



> And then I was ready to really talk, and the motivation was not there to deepen the topic because the obvious emotions were gone.


You mean the motivation was no longer there on the INFJ's side or yours? Or both?





> I admit this was a work context (although pretty close for work), but I could have easily dealt with those emotions myself. Or go all the way and talk about what was really on my mind.


I've heard other Fi/Te users say that they usually prefer to handle their emotions on their own since it's more efficient that way. The INTJ friend I used to have would get depressed sometimes and basically disappear. I'd try reaching out to her to make sure she was okay and she said that she usually doesn't like opening up about her feelings when they're negative because it usually winds up making her feel worse. But she found herself still opening up with me and she found that she actually felt better, not worse. I think it does a lot of good to talk about what you're currently struggling with - with a trusted party because it can help you process things. But perhaps I would think that being the FJ that I am  I think that when Fi/Te peeps try it with someone they are compatible with, they will also feel better  



> How do you sync up the emotional energy into something sustainable (energy giving for both people)?


Well I think it's best to form tight relationships with healthy (non toxic) people you are compatible with for one. Just so they're not sapping your emotional energy (and vise versa) in a negative way. And if you're compatible, then you're going to be feeding off of each others' energy more than draining each other. As introverts, we still need time to recharge so that's to be expected but when you do feel drained after spending time with a person you get along well with, it isn't a bad sort of drain. 


I hope that answers your question. Let me know if there was something more specific you were curious about.


----------



## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

Vivid Melody said:


> @*HumanBeing*
> 
> That's how I understood it as well. You just worded it better than me
> 
> What do you mean by extensive/intensive contacts?


Intensive contacts focus on depth, extensive contacts focuses on many contacts with less depth.



> I assume by trying to "bleed it out" you mean the INFJ was trying to get you to open up about it so you'd feel better?


Correct.



> You mean the motivation was no longer there on the INFJ's side or yours? Or both?


INFJ side, I personally was surprised by the sudden shift in priority.



> I've heard other Fi/Te users say that they usually prefer to handle their emotions on their own since it's more efficient that way. The INTJ friend I used to have would get depressed sometimes and basically disappear. I'd try reaching out to her to make sure she was okay and she said that she usually doesn't like opening up about her feelings when they're negative because it usually winds up making her feel worse. But she found herself still opening up with me and she found that she actually felt better, not worse. I think it does a lot of good to talk about what you're currently struggling with - with a trusted party because it can help you process things. But perhaps I would think that being the FJ that I am  I think that when Fi/Te peeps try it with someone they are compatible with, they will also feel better


I don't doubt the merit of sharing, just wondering an INFJ wouldn't get bored at a certain depth and move on.



> Well I think it's best to form tight relationships with healthy (non toxic) people you are compatible with for one. Just so they're not sapping your emotional energy (and vise versa) in a negative way. And if you're compatible, then you're going to be feeding off of each others' energy more than draining each other. As introverts, we still need time to recharge so that's to be expected but when you do feel drained after spending time with a person you get along well with, it isn't a bad sort of drain.
> 
> 
> I hope that answers your question. Let me know if there was something more specific you were curious about.


This is sort of a general answer, the big question is related to compatibility. The Fe-stereotype is one of an emotional vampire, like you already mentioned. Fi doesn't necessarily dump everything on the outside, so how do you deal with someone that is no longer giving you emotional blood to drink, but you are expected to sit through a prolonged talk while the Fi-person talks his or her way through all the details that aren't visible on the outside.


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

@*HumanBeing*



> Intensive contacts focus on depth, extensive contacts focuses on many contacts with less depth.


I personally prefer few contacts which focus on depth (so intensive over extensive). With too many contacts, I get stressed out and it's no longer enjoyable. 


As for people who are not apart of my inner circle (not the most intimate) since I'm assuming that's what you meant (more like an acquaintance) I typically share a lot less details about myself (if much at all) and do more listening than anything. However, when I was in my teens, I fell into the trap of doing that with people who I considered to be close friends. If the person is kind of self-absorbed they usually won't notice that all of the focus is on them until deeper into the relationship. And then all of the sudden they'll be like, "I feel like you know all of this stuff about me but I know nothing about you" or out of no where ask me a random question about myself when they ordinarily ask me none. So I felt like that was a bad pattern to get myself into and I'm better off with people who are more interested in getting to know me as well as sharing themselves. More of an equal give and take where the interest has more to do with in me as a person rather than them just seeing me as some sort of tool.

My INFJ hubby is a little different. Sometimes people think they are closer to him or know him better than they really do because he doesn't mind sharing details about himself but in reality, it's not the super vulnerable stuff in his mind. Or even if you do share these things, it doesn't automatically mean you'll have a deeper/closer connection with the person. So I guess it's a bit of an illusion in that way.



> INFJ side, I personally was surprised by the sudden shift in priority.


Hmm that's odd. Obviously I can't speak for that INFJ you dealt with but I wonder what caused the shift and what your dynamic with this individual INFJ is usually like. Was it out of the ordinary for them? Maybe the INFJ felt like you were only doing it for them and that you didn't really feel like talking about it any more? I'm not sure what their reasoning was exactly. I guess I'd need more context to understand.



> I don't doubt the merit of sharing, just wondering an INFJ wouldn't get bored at a certain depth and move on.


I mean, I personally wouldn't get bored but I guess I can't really speak for all INFJ's. I like to go as deep as possible with people and I don't mind revisiting something they've shared before if that's what they need. I often do that myself. I vent about something, then find another layer days or weeks later and it all gets rehashed again lol. I would only get bored/frustrated if I felt like the person was driving themselves in circles, not making any progress and hurting themselves in the process.



> This is sort of a general answer, the big question is related to compatibility.


I figured you were looking for more but your question was kind of broad so I wasn't entirely sure what it was you wanted to know. Thank you for the clarification. 



> The Fe-stereotype is one of an emotional vampire, like you already mentioned. Fi doesn't necessarily dump everything on the outside, so how do you deal with someone that is no longer giving you emotional blood to drink, but you are expected to sit through a prolonged talk while the Fi-person talks his or her way through all the details that aren't visible on the outside.


Well, I think transparency is important in order to cultivate intimacy in any relationship. If intimacy is the goal (and it usually is for me being an Sx dom especially) then it only benefits both parties to open up more. If the Fi person is actively talking their way through all their internal stuff, that's exactly what I am looking for. It sounds like you're making a distinction here though, between in the moment feelings (blood) vs. after the fact - when the Fi person is now sharing their feelings (past tense) once they've had time to process them some? All of this counts as "blood" in my world. 

Personally, I don't mind that they take some time to process - so long as they eventually open up. I'm here to help the people I care about and I can't help if they won't open up. There could have been something I could have done or prevented if they had opened up sooner. So sometimes - time is of the essence. So that's my line of thinking. 

If they're reluctant to open up, I just use my vampire charms to compel them to reveal more  lol Corniness aside, it sort of does happen like that. Sometimes people will say they don't want to open up but once you put them at ease by reassuring them or just in more subtle ways, they find themselves naturally opening up to you when they had not originally planned on doing so. That's usually how it works (at least in my case). I don't ever want people to feel pressured. That's not what I'm there for. Nor am I there for selfish means. I just want to help. That's about it. So if I can assist them by them opening up, then great. They're allowed time alone to process it a bit first. I tend to be that way to some extent as well so it's not like it's impossible for me to understand. 

If the FJ in question is looking for more than that - then perhaps they aren't compatible - at least in a certain context - like romantically. Or perhaps they are unhealthy and need to learn better ways of relating with people. Like an unhealthy type 2 who needs to be needed and forms codependent relationships. This would be an unhealthy way of relating to people.


----------



## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

@Vivid Melody

I'm playing this vampire video game where seducing the right people is quite literally about having something to drink :laughing:
It's a rather tangible Fe experience, lol

Do you ever experience someone being "sexy" on an emotional level?


----------



## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

@HumanBeing


Lol, that's funny. I wonder how seducing them with somehing like orange soda would go over 



> Do you ever experience someone being "sexy" on an emotional level?


I'm not entirely sure what you mean. I feel like this could mean so many different things  I don't get turned on by people crying or anything like that  lol (apparently that's a thing). I feel like my emotions and mind are always involved in regards to sexual attraction -- otherwise it's boring/shallow to me. It's never purely physical for me. Someone could be technically physically attractive but if they're a shitty person, they become an unattractive person to me - physically too. The two go hand in hand. If you have someone who is friendly (smiles a lot), nurturing and kind - that is sexy to me. So that's more on an emotional level. But when I'm in love with someone, there's already that emotional attachment there (like with my hubby) so my emotions automatically become stirred by his personality and different actions.


----------



## HumanBeing (May 28, 2014)

Vivid Melody said:


> Lol, that's funny. I wonder how seducing them with somehing like orange soda would go over


The seduction is with words, and then a little bite follows, and people don't have soda in their system :tongue:


----------



## AnnaKidd (Oct 29, 2020)

Encyclopedia Socionika have made a video on Fi vs Fe as part of their Bite-sized Socionics series - here it is


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

AnnaKidd said:


> Encyclopedia Socionika have made a video on Fi vs Fe as part of their Bite-sized Socionics series - here it is


Wow... interesting find. Thank you so much for posting it. I will want to look into this group’s other stuff. I like a few things that they said very much and then I’m baffled by a few others. 

I love that they said that these are rational functions. I have definitely always thought so. 

I am confused that they tried to place different emotions into different camps. As if my Fi hasn’t felt joy... And then assessing the strength of an emotion... well I can definitely do that... but I might have to think more about this part of what they said, could it be true in some aspect that they didn’t explain well in this short video? 

I am glad that they used the example of romantic love. Fi definitely makes a bond and makes ethics decisions on perceived Fi bonds... I’m not sure if a “separate entity” is a good way to put it, but it’s a “good enough” way to put it. I’m unsure how to explain bond otherwise except to talk about horcruxes as a concept. Lol. 

Can other people look at this too? Especially Fi and Fe doms? But anyone who has seriously examined the F functions? 

@Phil @secondpassing @WickerDeer @wums @Kelly Kapowski 
@ai.tran.75 
@vividmelody (I miss that girl). @Windblownhair 
@dulcinea. 

I hope I’m not missing people on this, so feel free to invite people who I will want to hit my forehead about for not summoning. You know what? I really love you guys so much... seriously. Hope you all are well!


----------



## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

I’m sorry maybe we can talk and discuss it on the phone tonight? I really don’t like watching YouTube videos 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

ai.tran.75 said:


> I’m sorry maybe we can talk and discuss it on the phone tonight? I really don’t like watching YouTube videos
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Okay. I checked out all of the videos and the website. When I watched it I was pretty excited with what I felt was a “group” maybe noticing something I had taken a long time and a lot of observation and a lot of questions to figure out, but it might just be common knowledge in Socionics. I Have never been into Socionics or read more Socionics sites than what I felt was the official and I have never liked their type descriptions. I think some of the other videos and this one too... they aren’t covering things as well as MBTI does in my opinion, but What it lacking on functions in MBTI might have some good nuggets in Socionics.


----------



## stoicismINFJ (Nov 30, 2020)

Llyralen said:


> How do you experience your feelings and values?
> What is your experience as you empathize/sympathize with others?
> How do you make decisions based on Fe?


I experience how I truly feel about a certain event or situation after it has passed. When I am in the moment, my Fe will mostly take over first. However, I am getting a bit older now so my Fi is getting better. I don't seem to get too uptight nowadays if I say things to offend others, especially people I don't particularly respect or like. 

I am INFJ-T. I am an empath but in a defensive way. Its not that I want to feel your pain. I just do and it can be frustrating sometimes. I hear a song, I feel the pain of the song writer. I see the back of person, I feel she's got tears in her eyes. I watch a movie, I cry. I pass a homeless person, I feel depressed. 

For a long time, I had this great fear that I am going to be emotionally affected by the external world so I shut myself up. I never read news trying to avoid all negativities. Again, I am getting older. I start gaining control of my own feelings so I choose to empathise nowadays. If my battery in full, I offer my support voluntarily; If I am already emotionally drained, or sense the emotion from the other person is too destructively strong to handle, I choose to ignore. But that doesn't mean I don't feel guilty after - you just can't help it as a Fe user. 

I make decisions based on how the group feels. I always try to achieve a win win situation where everyone or most of us are happy. There are always a few Fi users aren't happy but I am sorry, life is not perfect, shit happens, we all have to make sacrifice sometimes. 

The selfish side of an Fe user (oh yes, Fe users are SELFISH) -

because I constantly put you foremost I really expect you to do the same in return, not always but at least I want to see some reciprocation. If I try to accomodate you ALL THE TIME and you never accomodate me ONCE, I will cut you out of my life.


----------



## stoicismINFJ (Nov 30, 2020)

brightflashes said:


> I have a secondary question for Fe users - _why_ is Fe a good approach to a problem? That's what I have difficulty understanding.


Depending on the problem.
Personal problem? maybe Fi is more helpful. Sort out your own feelings and know what's best for yourself etc.. 
Group problem, Fe is definitely better. conflicts in a relationship, involves two or more people.


----------



## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

stoicismINFJ said:


> I experience how I truly feel about a certain event or situation after it has passed. When I am in the moment, my Fe will mostly take over first. However, I am getting a bit older now so my Fi is getting better. I don't seem to get too uptight nowadays if I say things to offend others, especially people I don't particularly respect or like.
> 
> I am INFJ-T. I am an empath but in a defensive way. Its not that I want to feel your pain. I just do and it can be frustrating sometimes. I hear a song, I feel the pain of the song writer. I see the back of person, I feel she's got tears in her eyes. I watch a movie, I cry. I pass a homeless person, I feel depressed.
> 
> ...


Thank you, you do a great job explaining.
I’d like to hear a bit more of you’d oblige me. What is it like (or how does it affect you?) being around people who are usually cheerful or who experience positive emotions? What if they are cheerful despite what other people in the group feel? How is that experienced?


----------



## iblameyou (Oct 1, 2016)

How do you experience your feelings and values?
What is your experience as you empathize/sympathize with others?
How do you make decisions based on Fe?

I am learning to embrace my feeling and my values better as I get older. I experience my values as I interact with the world. I don't always know where I stand with every meaningful interaction, but I feel I have better judgment when I sit with it and explore the meaning with that person/thing. When I was younger (early 20s) I was good at intellectualizing my feelings from an "objective" stand point but I pushed my values to the side. I like to know the cause and effect of my feelings so I didn't well on them as much until I react strongly to the offense or to the person. When people make choices that intentionally or unintentionally cross my values, I respond with anger but my first instinct is to step back and reflect. This has always been a struggle for me personally because my reaction to the situation does swing to the extreme ends. As of now, I think I am more comfortable navigating with my feelings and using my values to guide my respond.
be
Using Fe feels natural when I'm comfortable but I can be awkward in new environment. I feel like it's a combination of all functions to help me smell bullshit or help to those around me to get to where they need to be. When I was talking to my ISFP friend about the issue between us I felt that she wasn't as honest as she perceived herself (and portray herself as an victim) to escape conflict. The dynamic between us and to draw a conclusion that she was bullshitting was probably a combination of all four functions working together. I'm at a place where I still struggle to find balance between myself and other because it's my natural instinct to consider people's perspective. But I think that as I grow more comfortable in my identity, I am feel confident drawing boundary lines or discerning bs from people.


----------



## Zoingeroni (Dec 30, 2020)

Socionics and MBTI are not the same. _Please_. Let's not go there. They both DIVERGE from Carl Jung's work but are not exactly the SAME as it. About half of people have a P/J switch and about half don't (regardless of extratim vs intratim).

I mistyped as an INFJ for a decade, so i can't really imagine how Fe could NOT be seen as useful! I'm also a 9 and an EII. An article i read named Fe as harmony and Fi as authenticity, but my enneagram type is already about harmony! What is the truth! And what about INFJ 4s lol!

I would imagine that the most "Fe" INFx would be a 2-fix, 9-fix, social instinct, EII, ♋ (not by birth charts). While the most "Fi" INFx would be 4-fix, self preservation instinct, IEI, ♓. I feel like a ♋-♓ and INFJ-INFP blend in traits and behavior, but my processes, as i've recently learned, are INFP 

My INFJ relative has a greater impulse to caretake others. Learning im a 469 ♓ INFP is helping me understand why i feel so broken and selfish for not being like her and other Fe users i've known or notice. I have severe mental health issues (empathic related) that force me to self-protect and not be much of a helper (yes, i don't have too deep of bonds lol). I would imagine a more Fe/2/so-like person would be more inclined to become a "relentless" caretaker/bonder when unhealthy than me. I also have very selfish impulses and feelings about wanting to be the exclusive center of attention that i try not to act on, that i feel horrible for having. I would think a Fe/2-like person would have more "pure" altrustic feelings.


----------

