# INFP Husband has divorced me emotionally ... what can I do?



## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

So, without going into a massive amount of detail, a little over a year ago my INFP husband of almost seven years now left me a letter confessing that he had been lying to me for awhile about a lot of things and was very depressed and confused. I was torn between guilt and relief. I'd known something was wrong for awhile and had tried to draw it out of him, but had always gotten "nothing" and "I don't know" type responses. I also know that as an INFJ I am constantly striving toward making things "better" and can have unrealistically high expectations for myself and other. Among other things he confessed to having strong feelings for a coworker and feeling like he had no relationship with God and feeling like he had been programmed to say yes. I should add that we have both been very active in our church since we were kids. Also, he comes from a very messed up family, with a father who was neglectful and eventually left them (my husband was already 19 at time of divorce), a depressed, control-freak mother and a history of depression himself. But I always knew that he was different and had a core of integrity and would never do what his father did (which he has always abhorred).

So, after getting this letter I immediately went into fix-it mode, trying to be 100% calm and give him the space he asked for to sort out his feelings, though I lost it a couple times when I found he was chatting with his co-worker outside work time, ... initiating contact, which for him is big ... We had a couple of genuine conversations in which he broke down and cried and expressed major guilt and shame. First he claimed he couldn't remember ever being happy. The next time he cried and said he did remember all the good times and didn't know why he just wanted to run away, he admitted he probably did need counseling. I suggested he start with an online counselor, knowing how difficult it is for him to open up, especially in person. He did this for awhile, but not sure what they talked about. He cut his family off completely, even his brother who was closest to him and kept trying to reach out. He asked me to leave for a couple weeks so he could be alone. I did. When I came back he had moved out of the bedroom. He announced he was "taking over the finances", which I had been handling our entire marriage (I had helped pay off his debt and get his credit score up when we were first married). He started having his paycheck deposited in his personal account rather than the joint account and spending money like it was going out of style. Then he told me he needed to be alone "temporarily but indefinitely," I was very unhappy about this because I still wanted to work on our marriage, but I agreed and, in the interests of not completely wrecking our finances, went to stay with my parents for awhile. I decided to start working again since I didn't know what would happen. (I had quit my job about a year before at his urging after he got a promotion at work - I do about 20 hours of volunteer work a week and at the time all this started was spending about 40 hours a week care-taking my sick grandmother.)

I eventually told him that I was not going to live with my parents forever and we needed to work out something else out. First he was going to get my my own place but then changed his mind and said we could live together again but there had to be rules about his space and privacy. He said the reason he was going to do this was because he didn't want to be like his dad and wanted to at least provide me with a home and financial support. We have been living in the same house again about five months now but as strangers. He basically pretends I do not exist. He goes to work, goes out, does his own thing but refuses to have any relationship with me. Early on he stopped letting me cook for him or wash his laundry and now he won't even touch the groceries that I buy. He insisted that we move without anyone's help and won't be alone in a car or room with me. Most of the time if he walks by me on his way out he won't even respond to me saying hello or telling him to have a good day.

I have worked very hard during this time to continue giving him space, treat him with patience and respect and maintain a commitment to our marriage. I do not believe in just giving up and it goes against everything I believe in to break our vows.

Last month I tried to reach out to him and he refused to talk except by email. So, I did email him and let him know I wanted to check in on how he is feeling, that I want to spend time with him, that I miss him. The response I got is that he still feels the same and doesn't want to spend time with me. That he just can't be a husband and even the thought of trying makes him unhappy. 

I have discovered that during the time we were separated he has been pursuing his coworker and though it seems that it didn't work out he is still pining for her, writing poems about how amazing she is and wallowing in unrequited love. He did this about other girls before we met ... though he insisted I was his soulmate and that he had never loved anyone else ... this is the worst betrayal for me and yet I feel like it is more a way for him to justify running away from our marriage than anything else. He seems to be experimenting with lots of new things, which is good on the one hand. He has always been very sheltered and afraid of trying new things. He learned and experienced many new things after we were married, but maybe was/is still afraid? I did see something he had written saying he was tired of being afraid of being judged and abandoned and that he wanted a complete separation but would still help me financially (this is something he wrote awhile ago but has not given me) I know I can be critical and "judgey", but it is something I am working on and I have NEVER EVER given him reason to believe I would leave or not forgive him for what he has done, quite the opposite. 

A few days ago I decided that maybe I had been wrong to hold all my feeling in and not show him how much he is hurting me. I actually got him to sit down with me and I let myself cry and ask him how he could just quit our marriage without even talking to me about it or trying to make it work. The basic response I got was, "I'm sorry I made you a promise I can't keep, I'm not capable of being a loving mature husband, I did try, but being married was nerve-racking." I string that together, but it was actually in small sections after looooong pauses. I suggested to him that our marriage could be different and better than it was before if he would be honest and open about his wants and needs and he said he couldn't do that, "I am who I am." When I tried to get more explanation from him he said that if all I was going to do was vent about things being unfair than he was going in his room - which he did. I sent him another email saying I would try to give him space and was grateful from him trying and providing me a home and could we discuss finances (we continue sinking further into debt and I recently changed to a better job to try to help). No response to that or a cpl texts. It really annoys me when he doesn't respond but then sends me questions about things like bills.

At this point I feel like I have little to lose. The financial support, while nice, is probably the least important thing to me, though the debt stresses me out. Saving my marriage is number one and not being able to do anything about it is driving me crazy. This morning I felt reckless and texted him a bunch of old pictures of us being happy. He finally texted back "Stop. Or I will block your number." I don't like my behavior, I like to be in control of my feelings, but I don't know what the best thing to do is at this point.

I am sorry this is so very long, but I wanted to try to give the whole picture. Do any INFPs have advice on how to deal with this?? Please don't say "just let him go". If he leaves I can't stop him, but so long as we are married and he is not sleeping with anyone else I am not giving up on our marriage. It is less about "being in love", though I still care about him, and more about being true to myself and my promises. If I give up it will be very hard for me to open back up if he changes his mind. I truly believe we could be happy again, but it seems he is just not willing to try??


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## Blissfulwish (Jul 7, 2009)

Wow that is a lot to take in!

After reading what you had to say I really want to say that you should move on, but since you don't want people to tell you that then I can give you this piece of advice. Move out of that house and try to start over. It seems that you are always there so he is use to you, that security may have him thinking that you will always be there. If the money is the least important thing in your relationship then show it. Explain to him that you would rather buy his time then be supported financially. If you are not willing to go that far then how do you expect to show him that you are serious in missing him?

I seriously think that you have done all that you have to keep this marriage and that it's up to him. It doesn't seem like he wants to end the marriage, but is content of breaking his vows and has cheated on you emotionally.


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## Beyond_B (Feb 2, 2011)

Do you know what exactly lead to him behaving that way? From reading your post, it's hard to tell what's really going on with him.
My advice would be to focus on yourself. Exercise, work, move out if living with him is too painful.
You'll regret not taking enough care of yourself, in case you are neglecting yourself. You could tell him you're ready to talk, if he wants to fix things, but that until then you'll be focusing on yourself.
I don't know if you have that problem, but the INFJs i personally know can be judgmental and sometimes make others feels less important or intelligent. However, i can't say if that's the case in your relationship. Even if it is, his behaviour is not excusable in my opinion. 
you could tell him you love him before you move out. I am sorry about all of this, and i wish you the best of luck. It certainly hurts a lot when a partner acts like this, but take care of yout wellbeing, and surround yourself with loving people who can help you get through this.
If you stay in the same house, he will merely look at you as a plan B, it's more likely he will try to work on things if you move out and make him feel scared of losing you.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Thanks Blissfulwish ... I have thought about leaving, but I kind of feel like that's almost what he wants ... to make me be the "bad guy" who gave up on the marriage so that he doesn't have to be. The letter I saw that he hasn't given me says he wants to completely separate at the end of our lease, so I guess I am biding my time to see if he will actually give it to me. If he does then I actually am thinking about taking a job abroad to be well and truly away and be able to get this debt that is racking up paid off. I have a bachelor's degree and I can teach English abroad for a very good wage and much cheaper cost of living. The other issue is that, whether others choose to believe/respect or not, as long as he is willing to support me financially and not physically abusing me or committing actual adultery my Christian conscience doesn't allow me to initiate leaving him. Even though he has turned his back on God as well and seems to be actively pursuing doing things we always thought were morally wrong (at least he SAID he did), I won't do anything to put my relationship with God in jeopardy - and I feel that initiating leaving would be breaking my vows. But some days it does feel like I'm just waiting for him to get up the guts to leave and/or commit adultery ... I can't bring myself to WANT him to do that though. I know he has cheated on me emotionally and really for an INFX that is pretty much the same as physically, if not worse.

I guess the closest I could get to following your advice would be what I have mostly been doing up until the last month or two - concentrate on working on myself and being happy on my own and just leave him completely alone. We really have very little interaction unless I force it. Sometimes I don't see or talk to him for days at a time.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Beyond_B said:


> Do you know what exactly lead to him behaving that way? From reading your post, it's hard to tell what's really going on with him.
> My advice would be to focus on yourself. Exercise, work, move out if living with him is too painful.
> You'll regret not taking enough care of yourself, in case you are neglecting yourself. You could tell him you're ready to talk, if he wants to fix things, but that until then you'll be focusing on yourself.
> I don't know if you have that problem, but the INFJs i personally know can be judgmental and sometimes make others feels less important or intelligent. However, i can't say if that's the case in your relationship. Even if it is, his behavior is not excusable in my opinion.
> ...


Thanks Beyond_B,

I think much of it stems from him being highly sensitive and having a very traumatic and unhealthy childhood. I think there are many issues from that which he has never dealt with. He is extremely conflict-avoidant and as an INFP I think it is both easier for him to ignore the situation and fantasize about something different/better than actually act to do anything about it. 

I am trying to take care of myself and have actual learned some good lessons over the last year. I know that I can be critical and judgmental and am working on that. Part of the issue is probably that I come from a family of NTs with an ISXJ mother. We were always encouraged to talk openly about anything and express our opinions with full expectation that they might be shot down but that we would still be loved. My husband on the other hand comes from a strongly NF family where there was a history of depression, repression and emotional abuse and they still don't talk openly about anything. So, and I got him to confirm this early on in this crisis, basically anything I say (even with absolutely no criticism intended) to his overly-sensitive self is taken as criticism and, while I expect the person I'm talking to to openly disagree if they feel differently, he just went along with what I said and let me believe that was what he wanted too.

Some possible triggers: 

When we got married he was not in contact with his father or one of his brothers (who briefly sexually molested him and his sisters). About three years into our marriage both of them re-entered the picture with everyone pretty much acting like all was fine and the brother being included in all the family gatherings. Since my husband also acted like everything was fine I took at it face-value ...

Also, he had been very active in our church, but was asked to step down from those responsibilities (I fully believe he planned to give them up anyway) and take some time to work on his own spiritual health and our marriage. He was actually angry about how much love was shown him and believed he should be more severely punished for what he had done and cut-off completely ... and chose to then cut everyone else off anyway. Back to his issues with feeling worthless and guilty and ashamed which lead me to believe he needs to address childhood issues.

None of this excuses his behavior, but it helps me cope to try to understand WHY he is doing this. Fortunately I have a very loving family and an extremely strong support system ... Even his family is supportive of me, as much as they can be (their lives are one drama after another). 

I know I will be okay no matter how this ends up, but I also want to know that I fought to the last to make it work ... which is why I hoped some fellow INFPs might have insight into his behavior and/or the best way to deal with it. I guess what I am hearing so far is to completely withdraw from him if possible. You will see in my reply to Blissfulwish that I am already contemplating how to do this.

Thank you again.


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## Beyond_B (Feb 2, 2011)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> Thanks Beyond_B,
> 
> I think much of it stems from him being highly sensitive and having a very traumatic and unhealthy childhood. I think there are many issues from that which he has never dealt with. He is extremely conflict-avoidant and as an INFP I think it is both easier for him to ignore the situation and fantasize about something different/better than actually act to do anything about it.
> 
> ...


Well, my concern of you being too judgmental has been relieved a bit, because of you saying you're open to someone disagreeing with you. The INFJs i know have problems with that.
I hope the INFPs will be able to give you deeper insight.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Beyond_B said:


> Well, my concern of you being too judgmental has been relieved a bit, because of you saying you're open to someone disagreeing with you. The INFJs i know have problems with that.
> I hope the INFPs will be able to give you deeper insight.


Yes, I was only 17% J last time I took the test (though my INTP sis says I am definitely one!), but I think growing up in a family that talks openly and values logical/rational discussion was a big help to balancing out my personality. The last year has been good for me as well, in spite of it being painful. It is still hard for me to accept that not everyone believes in "doing the right thing" or what "the right thing" IS - which I am sure is very INFJ of me, but I try to be aware of it. Here's hoping some INFPs will chime in.


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## aurly (Jun 15, 2014)

Give him this: http://www.amazon.com/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310247454/

Avoid giving him the impression you're doing it to save your marriage, or that you're trying to change him, or blame him in any way. He won't read it otherwise. Do it to help _him_, and for no other reason.

And get a copy for yourself to read as well.


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## saxol (Aug 20, 2015)

I read it a few times and I'm empty on advice but completely sadden about it all. Seems like a lot of pain, turmoil, and emotionally exhausting experience to me. Hope you get the help and answers you need.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

Well I'm not an INFP but I can't help but see his actions as incredibly immature and passive aggressive. If you want to try and make it work, all power to you. But this just seems like he's having an internal crisis and rather than seeking proper help for it is just indulging every whim while expecting others to jump onboard with that. Relationships are about expectations and communication and if he's not interested in any of that, well you've got to look after yourself. There is no way in hell I would be living with someone who pretends I don't exist. That's just rude and unnecessary, you can ask for privacy and at the same time be respectful to others. 

I'm all out of advice because the only advice I had you absolutely don't want. Which is fine. I just hope that you find yourself in all of this because to be honest, from this account it sounds like you've accomodated his feelings, wants and desires and are not getting much respect in return. He is doing exactly what his father did and is kidding himself that he's not. Sorry for your experience.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

aurly said:


> Avoid giving him the impression you're doing it to save your marriage, or that you're trying to change him, or blame him in any way. He won't read it otherwise. Do it to help _him_, and for no other reason.
> 
> And get a copy for yourself to read as well.



Thanks for the suggestion I will definitely look into it.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Thank you for your kind words.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

InSolitude said:


> Well I'm not an INFP but I can't help but see his actions as incredibly immature and passive aggressive. If you want to try and make it work, all power to you. But this just seems like he's having an internal crisis and rather than seeking proper help for it is just indulging every whim while expecting others to jump onboard with that. Relationships are about expectations and communication and if he's not interested in any of that, well you've got to look after yourself. There is no way in hell I would be living with someone who pretends I don't exist. That's just rude and unnecessary, you can ask for privacy and at the same time be respectful to others.
> 
> I'm all out of advice because the only advice I had you absolutely don't want. Which is fine. I just hope that you find yourself in all of this because to be honest, from this account it sounds like you've accomodated his feelings, wants and desires and are not getting much respect in return.



Thank you for thoughts. Honestly, I know the _easiest_ thing to do is leave. I'm not sticking around because I _enjoy_ being treated like this. I agree his behavior is immature, wrong, and passive aggressive. Maybe my INFJness is what keeps me thinking I can help him somehow. I know I ave a rescue complex that has burned me in the past. I guess I just keep remembering the person I married and I know he is in pain and I keep thinking something has got to give one way or another. Maybe I am still in denial that he truly feels this way and that's why I'm hoping some INFP will be able to tell me that he will one day go back to being my loving husband. Perhaps not. Either way, I will at least know that I absolutely did my utmost to save my marriage. I do appreciate your input. It's nice to hear other peoples thoughts when I am always going back and forth in my own head. Thank you.


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## EndsOfTheEarth (Mar 14, 2015)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> Thank you for thoughts. Honestly, I know the _easiest_ thing to do is leave. I'm not sticking around because I _enjoy_ being treated like this. I agree his behavior is immature, wrong, and passive aggressive. Maybe my INFJness is what keeps me thinking I can help him somehow. I know I ave a rescue complex that has burned me in the past. I guess I just keep remembering the person I married and I know he is in pain and I keep thinking something has got to give one way or another. Maybe I am still in denial that he truly feels this way and that's why I'm hoping some INFP will be able to tell me that he will one day go back to being my loving husband. Perhaps not. Either way, I will at least know that I absolutely did my utmost to save my marriage. I do appreciate your input. It's nice to hear other peoples thoughts when I am always going back and forth in my own head. Thank you.


Don't mind me, I'm coming from a different personal values perspective. I hope for your sake that it does all resolve itself in the end. Best wishes.


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## saxol (Aug 20, 2015)

I will say that you can't mend what wants to be broken or rescue that which wants to be lost no matter your efforts or time given. The depth of your patience is extrordinary it seems, many would have been far shorter.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

saxol said:


> I will say that you can't mend what wants to be broken or rescue that which wants to be lost no matter your efforts or time given. The depth of your patience is extrordinary it seems, many would have been far shorter.


Thank you for your wise words. I know they are true, I have learned from friends in the past, who I finally had to cut off because they had drained me so far, that you really cannot help someone unless they want to be helped. But once I have committed to a person I will expend myself to help them even when it hurts me to do so ... Maybe that's the gift and curse of being an INFJ? I guess I feel if more people were patient and forgiving there would be fewer divorces ... and other problems too I guess. Anyway, the patience part is not easy, fortunately I have people to vent to and cry on ... there are days I want to punch him in the face (or exact revenge in much more devious ways) but logic tells me that that would solve nothing and only embarrass and pain me as soon as I did it. My photo bombard this morning was about as far as I can let my patience slip ... and that was more a feeling like I had nothing left to lose and thinking that maybe if he saw how happy we were he wouldn't be able to not have some emotional response to it. Even if that response was to finally end things. He has very much rewritten history in his head as far as I can tell. I crave progress in any direction, but what I keep hearing is to leave him alone and let him fix himself ... which takes even more patience than trying to help. :-/ But even just talking about it with people helps me cope. So, thank you.


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## saxol (Aug 20, 2015)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> Thank you for your wise words. I know they are true, I have learned from friends in the past, who I finally had to cut off because they had drained me so far, that you really cannot help someone unless they want to be helped. But once I have committed to a person I will expend myself to help them even when it hurts me to do so ... Maybe that's the gift and curse of being an INFJ? I guess I feel if more people were patient and forgiving there would be fewer divorces ... and other problems too I guess. Anyway, the patience part is not easy, fortunately I have people to vent to and cry on ... there are days I want to punch him in the face (or exact revenge in much more devious ways) but logic tells me that that would solve nothing and only embarrass and pain me as soon as I did it. My photo bombard this morning was about as far as I can let my patience slip ... and that was more a feeling like I had nothing left to lose and thinking that maybe if he saw how happy we were he wouldn't be able to not have some emotional response to it. Even if that response was to finally end things. He has very much rewritten history in his head as far as I can tell. I crave progress in any direction, but what I keep hearing is to leave him alone and let him fix himself ... which takes even more patience than trying to help. :-/ But even just talking about it with people helps me cope. So, thank you.


I appreciate your commitment and truly hope resolution comes soon for you.


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## Metalize (Dec 18, 2014)

I'd say leave and make it a clean cut, he's wasted enough of your time, and despite the superficial apologetic stance, he clearly has no qualms continuing to hurt you. Save yourself because as romantic as the notion of saving someone else is, he does seem immature and even manipulative, and in the end it's one massive and enabling sink into someone who just doesn't appreciate it and will throw it all right back in your face. Understandably you weren't trying to do all this just for yourself, but you are also a human being who obviously doesn't have unlimited resources either. The rendezvous with the coworker seems to cement that particularly, that isn't just a poor mental state, but something willful and somewhat more conscious. I would not waste any more time into someone that consciously (being in control of their faculties) continues hurting me without any real remorse.


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## sweetraglansweater (Jul 31, 2015)

without divorcing him hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

-Get yourself the job skills you need to be self-reliant and said job...whether or not your marriage works out. Perhaps asserting your independence financially might breathe some fresh life into your relationship for both you and him. At the very least it will make you feel better and secure your future and alleviate any financial "messyness" or worries on his end. Get money matters solved and out of the way so you can have your feet on the ground. *Establish a separate bank account asap. *

-TLC your body, mind and soul. You sound like a very caring person, putting your husband ahead of yourself. While this trait might be the very element that saves your marriage you need to take time for you. Exercise daily, get into yoga or some kind of meditative, relaxing routine, do some positive hypnotherapy or talk to a counselor, eat healthily and get plenty of sleep and rest. Emotional turmoil and suspense has a wearing affect on the body. Don't allow yourself to get sick with stress over your marriage.

-Re-connect with friends and family. Individuals need support, marriage needs a community. Reach out to your allies for comfort, support and feedback. Talk with them and reflect on their advice. Oftentimes friends can see parts of your relationship and actions that you can't. Also, they might see his perspective -right or wrong- and give you insight into his actions.

-Ask yourself where you messed up in the marriage. With exception to domestic abuse or physically violent relationships, 99% of failed relationships hold both parties to blame. You were 50% of the problem in your marriage. Your husband might be selfish or wrong, but at some point he felt you weren't worth sticking around for. He might have made his decisions for totally ulterior reasons, but own your part of the problem and realize that if you had been a "totally perfect wife" he might not have left to begin with. This is harsh advice -everyone loves being a victim in the divorce- but if you truly want to work towards saving your marriage you need to find out why he doesn't value a relationship with you anymore. What habits, traits and characteristics are you holding on to that might be driving him away? It would be worth going to couples therapy or individual therapy to discover your piece of the pie and working towards making yourself a better partner. 

-Allow yourself to grieve (but do not put your grief onto him). You are allowed to be sorrowful and sad. Cry it out. But if he has asked for no contact or does not want to hear your vexations, anxieties or cries do not humiliate yourself and grieve in front of him. Respect his space, respect your dignity. Find a way to grieve during this process in a way that does not ruin your relationship with him.

-Respect his free will and his personal space. If he asks you not to contact him do not contact him. If he decides to terminate the relationship with divorce do not lash out or ask for pity. Be dignified and realize that you are both agents of your own free wills independent of your marriage. 

-Set & keep mutually agreed upon boundaries. He has made his boundaries (no contact, no texts, etc). Make your own. You need to see the finances (it's not OK that he gets control of those). If he wants to contact you about finances, house, kids etc he needs to do so during time frames that fits you. He can't demand your time, he can't come in and out of your life at random for his benefit. He's not OK to just barge into the house that he's left without contacting you first. Boundaries seem contrary to the idea of marriage but both of you are entitled to them. It sounds like he appreciates boundaries and would keep them whereas you might struggle in this area. I think he would respect you more if you set your own boundaries and respected his. However, you also need to set financial boundaries.

-If he was abused as a child recognize that his pushing away behavior is typical for someone who was molested in their formative years. Do not become his therapist or counselor- any attempts to "fix" or "help" him will destroy your marriage quicker than angry words. Do not allow his past to excuse his behavior, however realize that his past is informing his behavior in the present and take that into account. 

-Finally, relearn the Biblical passages about marriage. Traditional Judaism supports divorce if the marriage grounds have been broken. If he refuses to sleep with you he has broken the marriage and you are free to re-marry. If he does not choose to live with you or do his duties of sex, provision, companionship or care he has voided the marriage. American Christianity does not understand Biblical marriage and the grounds for Biblical divorce which were based in Jewish customs, laws and culture. You have Biblical grounds as is to divorce him with a clean conscience, so do not worry about being "the bad guy." If your community condemns you for doing this then they don't understand the Bible anyway. If your pride and image is preventing you from divorcing then you aren't staying married to him for the right reasons but selfish ones instead. Ask yourself, why are you clinging to this marriage? Do you really love him or are you just trying to do "what's right" or not be "the bad guy"? If you are doing this for anything less that the true love of him because you understand that he might be hurting himself blindly or acting out on his traumatic past then you are not doing him a favor by staying married. You can let him man up and wait or you can be a good, strong, dignified woman and demand the marriage rights you were promised/agreed to and solve this problem (for marriage or divorce) yourself. 

Marriage is such a sacred and righteous thing that I truly believe staying in a bad marriage is a mockery of God: unless there are dependent children involved, divorce is a nobler thing than a bad, sham of a marriage. 

In closing- this man is obligated to your financially. I'm not saying that you should sue him for the kitchen sink. But his actions are adulterous and at minimum qualify as abandonment. Know your financial rights. Your debt is mutual- he cannot shirk his duty. He made a commitment and he needs to live up to that. Do not settle for less. 

On a personal note: I would deal with him in frank, matter-of-fact terms. It's clear he does not love you anymore so don't demean yourself by trying to guilt him with photos or messages as if you were in love or try to evoke a loving response from him. If your marriage does work out it will be very, very hard. You shouldn't just trust him or hope that it will be magical and wonderful again because even if he does stay with you it's clear that the relationship's foundation has been shaken to the point of needing to be rebuilt entirely.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Metasentient said:


> I'd say leave and make it a clean cut, he's wasted enough of your time, and despite the superficial apologetic stance, he clearly has no qualms continuing to hurt you. Save yourself because as romantic as the notion of saving someone else is, he does seem immature and even manipulative, and in the end it's one massive and enabling sink into someone who just doesn't appreciate it and will throw it all right back in your face. Understandably you weren't trying to do all this just for yourself, but you are also a human being who obviously doesn't have unlimited resources either. The rendezvous with the coworker seems to cement that particularly, that isn't just a poor mental state, but something willful and somewhat more conscious. I would not waste any more time into someone that consciously (being in control of their faculties) continues hurting me without any real remorse.


Thank you. Your comments about his action with his coworker being willful ring very true ... I have read a lot about men having "midlife crisis" type affairs because they are seeking external happiness instead of dealing with their own issues and it seems an INFP (idealist, fantasy-oriented) would be particularly prone to this. However, that doesn't change the wrongness of it ... I guess I just can't reconcile the person I knew with the person I married, I keep thinking there has to be some deeper explanation than that he has suddenly become incredibly selfish ... but from what I've read of INFPs they are less concerned about doing what is right and more about doing what feels good ... At the beginning of all of this I could see it was tearing him up inside and he was genuinely trying to fight his feelings for her and worried about hurting me, but now it's like that has gone away and he is just cold. I think most of their "relationship" has been in his head, but it's still a betrayal ... I keep thinking of how much pain he is going to be in when he allows himself to realize all he has destroyed, because I know him and he will be ... unless he has actually undergone a personality change. People in mid-life crisis take 2-7 years to come out of it. Though he is a bit young (34), he has many symptoms (I didn't really describe them here). Maybe I am deluding myself. I don't know. Anyway, thanks for your advice. This may very well lead to a "doorslam" or "clean break" as you put it ... that's just a last resort for me. I tend to be either invested or cut you off completely, there is no middle ground for me, and I am not yet resigned to the latter.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

sweetraglansweater said:


> wow, I finds some of the things you said about Jews with regards to our perspectives on marriage and divorce to be derogatory, offensive and borderline antisemetic. I'm Jewish, I've studied Torah AND Christianity both in Hebrew and Greek and I can tell you, the Jewish perspective on divorce is not "heardhearted" and "made up" just because we love "making up laws." Please, study Judaism and the Torah from a Hebrew and Biblical perspective with a trained rabbi before calling me and my whole people heardhearted for creating the Bible to which you voluntarily subscribe.
> 
> You want insight into the INFP perspective:
> 
> ...


I am very sorry that you took my words as an insult or prejudice, I did not mean to insult you or the Jewish people. "Hard-hearted" is a direct quote from Jesus in the Bible translation I was using. I did not say or mean that the Jewish perspective on divorce was "made-up". The scripture says: “Out of regard for your hard-heartedness, Moses _made_ the concession to you of divorcing your wives, but that has not been the case from the beginning." As I am sure you know, the Mosaic law outlined various cases in which a divorce certificate could be issued, but Jesus here was stating that things should be returned to God's original intention which was for man and wife to stick together. It wasn't my intention to insult anyone and I know very little about modern Jewish law, tradition or views on marriage and don't claim to. I was merely trying to explain why I, personally, based on what I read in the Bible, do not feel it is the right thing in my situation to get a divorce. I admit that you did put me a little on the defensive with your strong statements about what I should believe, so I am sorry if my reply came off in an offensive manner. 

Thank you for your insight into INFPs. It is very possible my husband feels as you describe. It would be nice if he would tell me that. He has not asked for a divorce or discussed anything with me, he has simply shut me out, which is why I sought some perspective on what he might be thinking.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Asphodelle said:


> I'm INTP but I wanted to respond to a particular aspect of this, which is the suggestion that he is falling away from religion, and that you are still very pious.
> 
> I grew up extremely conservative. I attended church + Bible study + choir practice + Bible Quiz practice + youth group; all of those, every single week. I was the youth pastor's daughter and my first serious boyfriend was the pastor's son. We broke up my second year in college, mostly because I was falling away from the religion and he wasn't at all. It changed the way I thought about everyone in the religion; they seemed smaller, stranger, even dumber than they had seemed before. It was hard for me to continue respecting them, when they sculpted their entire lives around something that I was beginning view as very silly. (From my point of view at the time! Religious people and religion are not dumb or silly, I'm not trying to start an argument.)
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for this alternate perspective. I am not at all offended. I respect everyone's right to their own beliefs. 

In my husband's case I am not sure if it is a complete fit. What he has expressed regarding our religion, in essence, is that he still believes that it is true and right but he does not believe himself capable of living according to it. Actually, he basically has said the same thing about being a husband that he is too messed up and just isn't capable of being the mature, loving husband that I need. His words, not mine. I think that part of his crisis is that he had been violating his conscience already and his underlying lack of self-worth makes him believe he is unforgivable as he initially expressed massive amounts of guilt and shame. On the other hand, I somewhat feel like he is going through an experimental phase of trying things he "couldn't" before. He and his siblings were all very repressed and sheltered, their description, not mine, and more because of their parents than our religion (in my opinion), so I wonder if he is simply finishing his development as he should have done back then ... it is possible that he has/will come to reject religion completely. Either way, I have expressed to him that it doesn't matter whether I agree with the decisions he makes about things like that, he is still my husband. Yet, I can understand your feelings about wanting to get away in that situation. So, not sure if it is a complete fit but I am sure it's playing a role in there somehow. Thank you so much for giving me something to think about and for expressing yourself so politely.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

Asphodelle said:


> My point is, this is a possible explanation for the 'root' of what is going on with your husband, if you and he were as plugged in to your church lives as I was.


I'd disagree with your assumption of the root cause. 
IMHO, that the man may be losing his faith & his moral compass are more indicative of results due to deeper issues than lost morals.
I gotta say that the OP appears to describe a man that's been running from himself, he's lost & seeking comfort in the form of a do over. Greed & fear are the type issues that can change aspects of a person so deeply & I'd bet on a horse named fear being the root cause.


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## sittapygmaea (Aug 24, 2014)

You are very diligent in replying to all these long posts  You don't need to reply to this; I just want to clarify a few things. I don't know whether you are, in general, letting him walk all over you, but communication strikes me as a giant trouble zone. Since things have become more difficult, it seems he doesn't really want to communicate with you at all. This clearly (and understandably) bothers you, but you seem to have been acquiescent in order to respect his explicitly stated needs/wishes for privacy. I don't think demanding near-total silence over such a long time period, (while remaining married and living in the same house) is fair to you. 

His MO recently seems to be: silent treatment/ if you initiate contact I don't have to respond/ if I don't like your texts I'll threaten to block. Assuming you _are_ mostly keeping your distance as he has requested, his 'I shall pretend you don't exist' strategy is childish, selfish, and impractical, and you are suffering for it. Because he keeps requesting privacy so strongly as a 'need' he has, you seem disinclined to push back. But his silence affects you very negatively, and in many different ways, so I think you *should* push back on this point. 

Similarly, his needing time to sort out his feelings is fine, but refusing to talk to you about them at all is not (in my opinion). It would be kind if you could be flexible about the frequency and medium and give him choices (email, a sit down with each other in the kitchen for an evening twice a month, an appointment with a couples therapist of some kind each week.) 

In short, he wants no communication, but that doesn't work for you. I don't think you should let him dictate terms on this. You have needs too. A compromise is warranted. In terms of INFP-speak, focusing on your feelings instead of judgments is helpful. E.g., rather than saying "your behavior is hurtful and you need to stop," say "When I don't know what you're thinking, I become lost and anxious. I understand that you need your space, but I need more communication from you. What do you think about these ideas for a compromise.... " 

(This is just my opinion based on what I've read; I obviously don't know the details of your relationship present or past).



NFGoneCrazy said:


> Also, I do think he is battling an internal struggle to do what is right but has perhaps convinced himself to reject all his once cherished beliefs to reconcile his feelings leading to a sort of identity crisis? Just a speculation.


^^ Sounds like a possible depression or other psychological crisis. Things like compulsive spending are commonly associated with depression. If he's really struggling he needs help, and he needs to let it out not bottle it all up. Maybe part why he's cutting himself off from his social network, church, etc. because he feels these people have values he's not sure about and they will impose the values on him or judge his struggle? If he's not comfortable talking to you, his family, his friends, or the church community, maybe you could help him find someone to talk to he feels comfortable with? You could say something like: "I'm really worried about you and whatever happens with our marriage, I don't want you to suffer like this. Can I help you find someone to talk to who might be able to help you with your struggles? You can't do it alone. What can I do to support you?" I would like to hear that as an INFP-- support without judgment, demands, or expectation.


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## HeartCartography (Mar 23, 2015)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> So, without going into a massive amount of detail, a little over a year ago my INFP husband of almost seven years now left me a letter confessing that he had been lying to me for awhile about a lot of things and was very depressed and confused. I was torn between guilt and relief. I'd known something was wrong for awhile and had tried to draw it out of him, but had always gotten "nothing" and "I don't know" type responses. I also know that as an INFJ I am constantly striving toward making things "better" and can have unrealistically high expectations for myself and other. Among other things he confessed to having strong feelings for a coworker and feeling like he had no relationship with God and feeling like he had been programmed to say yes. I should add that we have both been very active in our church since we were kids. Also, he comes from a very messed up family, with a father who was neglectful and eventually left them (my husband was already 19 at time of divorce), a depressed, control-freak mother and a history of depression himself. But I always knew that he was different and had a core of integrity and would never do what his father did (which he has always abhorred).
> 
> So, after getting this letter I immediately went into fix-it mode, trying to be 100% calm and give him the space he asked for to sort out his feelings, though I lost it a couple times when I found he was chatting with his co-worker outside work time, ... initiating contact, which for him is big ... We had a couple of genuine conversations in which he broke down and cried and expressed major guilt and shame. First he claimed he couldn't remember ever being happy. The next time he cried and said he did remember all the good times and didn't know why he just wanted to run away, he admitted he probably did need counseling. I suggested he start with an online counselor, knowing how difficult it is for him to open up, especially in person. He did this for awhile, but not sure what they talked about. He cut his family off completely, even his brother who was closest to him and kept trying to reach out. He asked me to leave for a couple weeks so he could be alone. I did. When I came back he had moved out of the bedroom. He announced he was "taking over the finances", which I had been handling our entire marriage (I had helped pay off his debt and get his credit score up when we were first married). He started having his paycheck deposited in his personal account rather than the joint account and spending money like it was going out of style. Then he told me he needed to be alone "temporarily but indefinitely," I was very unhappy about this because I still wanted to work on our marriage, but I agreed and, in the interests of not completely wrecking our finances, went to stay with my parents for awhile. I decided to start working again since I didn't know what would happen. (I had quit my job about a year before at his urging after he got a promotion at work - I do about 20 hours of volunteer work a week and at the time all this started was spending about 40 hours a week care-taking my sick grandmother.)
> 
> ...


I think you do not have children as they haven't been mentioned. Is this correct?

Do you think your Husband ever made the religion you belong to his own, or was he raised in it and just sort of 'continued on'.

Have you been able to talk to your local religious representatives and ask for help?

I have the same beliefs on marriage as you do and understand what you are trying to do. A very challenging situation and I am sorry for what you are going through.

Regrettably, YOU are the only person you can control. We can encourage or affect or inspire others. But, ultimately we all make our own choices. Your Husband is taking advantage of your kindness, patience because of beliefs, and is being selfish and childish in decision making.

I agree with needing to set boundaries to teach him again that you need to be respected. Only you will know what boundaries are appropriate. Glad to hear you have access to your own money.

If any of his actions are representative of INFP it is that of an unhealthy INFP. I don't think that is what is behind this, though.


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## OdinsVardogr (Mar 21, 2015)

Hi NFCrazy :smile:

I saw your post this morning on my phone and i found it a such compelling story between two INF's, despite it being pretty unfortunate. I wanted to say that my immediate reaction to the situation would be to give him complete space without further communication until you feel some things have settled or move on completely, which i think by now the others who have commented have done a great job at explaining to you why it would be a good idea. 

Anyway, this is not why i'm replying to your post. I feel like i can in some way clarify why he might be acting the way he is, coming from another male INFP's perspective. In a way i can strongly empathise with your husband. I have a INFJ in my life and i have a history of depressive episodes due to dysfunction in the family as child. I think the core of the disruption in this relationship is the strong emergence of *independence* on his part. Independence equals freedom and self sufficiency which is very important to an INFP. INFP's, especially males i've found have a strong desire to be independent in certain stages of in their life, usually when their independence is threatened. Sometimes to an extent where they begin to resent the thing that has looked after them for so long. They feel that the thing looking after them is hindering them from progressing or evolving themselves, typically in a spiritual fashion. I've felt this way towards someone in the past, i felt disgusted in the thoughts i was getting for that person (evoking feelings of guilt and shame like your SO) i loved but at same time i saw validation for these feelings to be, which were spiritually motivated. So i think this is a phase where these strong feelings are coming to your husband and even leaving himself in dismay. So refrain from feeling that it is just you fighting a battle. I'd probably imagine at this point in his life he is looking for something fresh and inspiring that will give him new vitality in areas he has neglected in the past, perhaps him fooling around with his co-worker is testament to this. 

Now, your affect on him is quite possibly suffocating and discouraging him to further the relationship. When you mean you went into "fix-it mode" what you really meant is that you wanted to fix him, when he doesn't need to be fixed. INFP's are very aware of change in their feeling and can fix themselves in way nobody else can, although sometimes it takes time and can leave people in the shadows. In saying this aid is greatly appreciated when offered during their emotion blip. However there is a thin line between this and being too intrusive, to a point where it feels like control, past that point you can kiss your chances away. Aid where you can and ask in the process of achieving their clarity. 

One thing i've observed regarding feelings in myself and in other INFP's is that we actively seek inspiration, even in the confines of a relationship. Unfortunately for the partner this inspiration is largely found in the process of being intimate with people. However the people who have touched us we never forget and still bare an insoluble love for. So when inspiration wears thin we become miserable and sometimes blame things that are not to be blamed but it's coming from a place of despair. So in this sense patience is very valuable trait in our partners, and you seem to have that. It's just matter of when he realises his situation in a clear mind that things can resume from being stagnant. If i was him i would appreciate an email exactly how you feel and why you feel that way, and conclude by understanding his circumstances (even though not completely). Say 'I'm here if you need me', something along those lines, and take this time to strengthen yourself. Know that whatever the outcome is, you both will be benefiting.

Hope i've been useful!


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

i'm sorry to hear about your situation
now to be blunt
you do realize that your marriage is over
and the 1st thing you need to do is accept that
you are holding on to the past
the past no longer exists
he will not change overnight 
tbh he sounds like a dick
you deserve better
contact a good attorney asap
move forward not backwards 
you 2 have no future together
btw, is he bi polar?


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> I'd disagree with your assumption of the root cause.
> IMHO, that the man may be losing his faith & his moral compass are more indicative of results due to deeper issues than lost morals.
> I gotta say that the OP appears to describe a man that's been running from himself, he's lost & seeking comfort in the form of a do over. Greed & fear are the type issues that can change aspects of a person so deeply & I'd bet on a horse named fear being the root cause.


Yes, this was the highlight of a letter I happened to see that he wrote to me last month and hasn't given me. That he has been afraid his whole life and is tired of being afraid to be "judged and abandoned". I think your words are right on, just not sure how to turn things around or if it is possible. I almost feel like he is subconsciously testing me to see if I will stay and/or trying to abandon me before I can abandon him ... which, I'm pretty sure I have made clear is not going to happen ... but I don't know how to get him to trust me enough to be open and honest or if he ever will be able. Thank you for this.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

@HeartCartography

No, no children fortunately. Though from some things over the last year I'm starting to think that was a desire he pretended not to have and secretly resented me for ... That's probably true of lots of things. Regarding our religion: I do not know if he really "made it his own" because I can't read his heart and at this point he has rewritten history to suit himself. However, there were reasons when I married him that I was convinced he had. Our church has been very supportive to both of us, but he has stopped responding to basically all attempts at contact from anyone from our former life. 

One conclusion I have come to from reading everyone's replies is that the INFP thing really doesn't matter, though it may still be slightly helpful in how to speak to him. He is definitely unhealthy.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

@Sittapygmea the replying is almost compulsive. ;-) In this case I will simply say again thank you and what you have written is quite helpful. I plan to reference back to it as I plan a productive conversation. Communication is doubtless an issue and thank you for encouraging me to push back. We are both very non-confrontational people who are able to organize our thoughts better in writing than speaking, so I think I need to make an outline of what I want to say ... Thanks!

Oh and yes - he has had problems with severe depression in the past, before we met and was even on medication at one point (before we were married) and I have been conscious of that and tried to encourage him to get help without being judgey, just making suggestions. He has taken some of them, but as far as I can tell, he really isn't comfortable talking to anyone (though he used to talk to me) and says that that is just who he is ... :-/ I know as an INFJ I tend to come off the wrong way sometimes so I really appreciate your suggestions about how to word things with an INFP - thank you!


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

@OdinsVardogr thanks, you have been very helpful and I really appreciate the insight from someone who seems to have a similar background and personality to him. My husband has said those same words about not wanting or needing to be fixed. For me, I always think of it as "helping" which is my standard MO, I guess, so it has been hard to know how to be supportive without trying to "fix," if that makes sense. Maybe because as an INFJ I constantly seek external input in order to understand myself and my feelings I keep thinking he needs the same. I'm glad you say that INFPs have great power to fix themselves. I actually think I have been doing a pretty good job at leaving him alone for the past year, it's just in the past month or so, around one-year anniversary of his original letter, that I have gotten very antsy again. You have been quite useful, thanks!


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## Spirit Dancer (Jul 30, 2010)

I haven't read all the advice given by others in this post and am not sure if you have provided further updates so I'm sorry if I repeat what the others have said or my advice isn't relevant anymore...

First things first, please look after yourself well. This sounds like an exhausting situation and I'm sorry you have to go through this.

Secondly, I have never been in this situation but I have a sister who once cheated on her husband both emotionally and physically. The whole family was involved in the issue and it was a very distressing time in our lives (I have a niece who was 3 years old at the time and her life would have been changed forever by this). 

Being her sister, I have a strong love for her and even knowing that what she had done was wrong, I was very patient and supportive of her (although not her behaviour) through the whole ordeal. From my heart, I can defend her and say that she is not a bad person. She just didn't know what she was doing and didn't realise the dumb mistake she was making. 

She was determined to leave the relationship and whilst she would listen to advice, she was completely blind to all reason during the initial stages. She was emotional and desperate for a change because there _were_ underlying issues in the marriage and she was determined to escape to brighter, unexplored pastures. At times I felt incredibly frustrated by her irrationality and crushed by the hopelessness of the situation. It _was_ immature. She was wiling to give up everything including her daughter for this other guy!

Her husband was incredibly patient. He waited for her to come around. He always let her know that he wanted to work on it, despite his anger and pain. He kept his door open. One day, months later and completely out of the blue, she realised that she was wrong. She changed her mind. 

Now, I'm not going to say that this will happen in your case nor do I want to give you false hope, but I am saying that in my sister's case, it did happen - she came through. She snapped out of it. It took a lot of work but her husband worked on forgiving her and they rebuilt their marriage together.

People might not understand it and even think that you are blind, but I can sense your dedication to your marriage and your love for him. Your husband is acting like a fool. You can't control what he does. You can't convince him to do anything. Everything that he thinks and feels needs to come from within him. INFPs are notoriously stubborn. Trying to help won't help.

If you really want to make this work my suggestion is to stay where you are, continue living together so long as it isn't harming you and be patient. As others have said, look after yourself and focus on nurturing you because this is a really tough situation. 

I don't care if others disagree with me or thinks this is stupid advice. My understanding is that you want to work on this and that it's not in you to give up on your marriage. Unless you change your mind and no longer feel like it is worth it, wait. You won't be the one that gave up. If he changes his mind, you will be there.

I hope you don't lose all your heart in the meantime. Be strong.


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## Aizar (Mar 21, 2011)

Ho boy.

Really the best you can do is keep a careful distance and work on your own life right now. He might come around, but he might not. Prepare for the latter, hope for the former, but not so much you're bending over backwards for him. Whatever emotional straits he's gotten himself into to act out this way, he's the one who ultimately has to get himself back out of it. There's nothing you can do for him. Nothing, none, zippo.

The only thing you can do is decide whether you want to stick around for an eventuality that may never occur. To give you a clue, whatever happened in the past is ~80% likely to occur again in the future. His behavior, how he treated you, etc. Was there truly no other problems before what's going on now? Something to think about. 

I'm sorry, I wish there were a flashing FIX ALL THE THINGS button to press. It's even more frustrating that this is mostly his problem--if it were yours, you could control the outcome. But you can't....you can only wait, see, and protect yourself. Good luck!


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## Sangmu (Feb 18, 2014)

My opinion is that he's an unhealthy INFP to the point of being an abuser. Leave.



> hoped some fellow INFPs might have insight into his behavior and/or the best way to deal with it.


How he has treated you and is currently treating you is how I would treat someone I hate. You should not be with someone who has zero respect for you.

He has already left you but is being vague about it because leading you on is convenient for him. He'll be able to fallback on you if his attempts at a new life go awry.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Hire a good divorce attorney - you're going to need their services. If you fail to protect yourself in this situation, you are almost certain to be hurt even more than you have been, thus far.

You can still love him, wishing and trying for what is in his best interest, while taking steps to protect yourself.


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## sittapygmaea (Aug 24, 2014)

@NFGoneCrazy

This *very* insightful post from @OdinsVardogr (especially useful parts exerpted below) reminded me how much I dislike being judged, controlled and having my autonomy- especially moral and deliberative autonomy- threatened. This is classic strong Fi, quite INFP. If anyone tells me something like the following: "you are wrong to feel/believe/act as you do. You need to stop and feel/believe/act in this way instead" it absolutely pushes my buttons and I become riled up and stubbornly resist/refuse even if the person's view has merit, because of how they presented it, like they have the authority to decide things *for me*. In my view, I am the only one with this authority.

Insofar as you present yourself as a dogmatic authority, it is likely to push his buttons. Even if that is not what you mean, and perhaps not even what you say, he is probably primed, in his panicked state, to hear judgment and feel controlled when you speak and act. I suspect that @OdinsVardogr is correct, that your attempts to 'help,' 'fix,' and 'save' your husband end up pushing his buttons, making him feel suffocated and controlled. This probably plays a role in his over-the-top need for complete isolation from you. 

At the same time, having read your description of the dynamic you're in now, I honestly think you do need to be more aggressive about asserting your own needs and wants and feelings. This is a razor's edge to walk; I don't envy you. My advice: the pronoun "I" is your friend in any and all conversations with your husband. Use it excessively. There is a world of difference between stating: 

a) your behavior is hurtful vs
b) I am hurt by your behavior

a) You need to change vs
b) I need some changes in order to feel OK

I think you should be more aggressive and explicit about stating your view, but make it clear that you are explaining your perspective, not presenting what is right and true. Treat him like an alien being, or a visitor from an exotic land. Tell him about your customs and perspective and let him tell you about about his. Try to just be honestly curious about the culture in the exotic land of his inner world. Try to be really open about your own feelings and needs while allowing him to be really open about his. Maybe you could even have a period of time where you put actually working on any 'future plans' on hold and just talk to each other about what you are feeling and thinking and hoping for and imagining, just have a free space to exchange ideas and get to know each other, almost like dating again. It might help him open up to you again.




OdinsVardogr said:


> I think the core of the disruption in this relationship is the strong emergence of *independence* on his part. Independence equals freedom and self sufficiency which is very important to an INFP. INFP's, especially males i've found have a strong desire to be independent in certain stages of in their life, usually when their independence is threatened. Sometimes to an extent where they begin to resent the thing that has looked after them for so long.
> 
> Now, your affect on him is quite possibly suffocating and discouraging him to further the relationship. When you mean you went into "fix-it mode" what you really meant is that you wanted to fix him, when he doesn't need to be fixed. However there is a thin line between this and being too intrusive, to a point where it feels like control, past that point you can kiss your chances away. Aid where you can and ask in the process of achieving their clarity.
> 
> If i was him i would appreciate an email exactly how you feel and why you feel that way, and conclude by understanding his circumstances (even though not completely). Say 'I'm here if you need me', something along those lines, and take this time to strengthen yourself. Know that whatever the outcome is, you both will be benefiting.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

@sittapygmaea

Yes! I am realizing this now - wish I had known it a year ago, but I was even more emotional then ... It is hard not to go into "this is wrong/unfair!" when I am upset because it's such an integral part of who I am. I recall being extremely upset and disbelieving about what I perceived as injustice/unfairness even as a kindergartner ... lol ... very INFJ of me, I'm sure ...

Last night my husband responded to an email I sent him after we had our last "discussion" and said he would prefer to communicate by email and continuing some dialogue about the finances. I was able to take several points that you, @OdinsVardogr, and few others made here (sifting through all the recommendations/demands to leave, get a lawyer, etc :frustrating and compose a long email being very open about my feelings, using the type of language you suggest, and explaining the way I think and feel while acknowledging that I understand that he thinks differently. 

I read a good book "Boundaries for Codependents" by Rokelle Lerner about setting boundaries and tried to both apply that and explain to him what that means. The information I read was actually specifically aimed toward adult children of dysfunctional and/or alcoholic parents and was very, very interesting. Having grown up with stable and loving (though of course not perfect) parents it is sometimes difficult for me to comprehend just how much damage parents can do to their kids without even intending to. So much of the information in the book about how parents violate/damage boundaries made sense of how my husband is acting and has acted in the past and there was very practical information regarding repairing physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual boundaries. I recommended it to him ( just saying "hey, reading this and it is very interesting" - not "fix yourself!!") and encouraged him in the email to be more vocal and explicit about his boundaries. Waiting to see how he will respond ... 

You have been very helpful - thank you!


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

I too feel he's still trapped in what sufferings he went through in his childhood. From what you wrote, I can tell he's repeating parental messages when he says he cannot be a loving person. Someone should ask him who told/taught him that, since that's the person who is responsible for the hurt your husband is in. You could be in a world of hurt when your husband starts to repeat the (verbally, sexually) violent behavior his role models portrayed in the past as well!

If he fails to identify what has happened to him, or accept it, he will be looking for revenge and you will be the easiest target.

You try to fix him, but keep in mind you weren't the one who broke him. You are not responsible for what shaped him in the past and you cannot fix what happened, since you weren't there. I am an atheist, but I like 2 Kings 6:1-7 (biblical passage) where to me the iron axe represents the past that has become inaccessible to us because it has sunk into deep water of the subconscious mind. Going back to the source, "Where fell it?" is the only way to remember things we had to repress and forget. It is the only place where we can heal / fix the cracks that run deep through us. (Hurt inflicted in the past)

I understand you feel responsible because of your marital vows. I think it is great you are so committed. In the end, that is what marriage is about. However, he lied to you when he entered into that marriage. He may not have been aware of it, but he wasn't ready to marry - and now it shows. He promised he'd be good to you and now he realizes he cannot. He is not even mature enough to actually letting you go. He just stays around, like a stubborn child, or an evasive fifteen year-old. I reckon you signed on to be his loving wife, not his therapist.

Head for the hills. Like @niss and others have said: you should be thinking about ways to protect yourself. I saw my mother going through an ordeal much like yours: she's divorced my narcissist dad by now, but remained determined to stay with him until the end - at great cost. My mom is an NF too, but most of her behavior was more about suffering from Stockholm syndrome than anything else.


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## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

@NFGoneCrazy, the only advice I can give you is the one you have asked not to get. I am so very sorry, but sometimes we need to do what we don't want to do.

The way I see it, your marriage is over. For some reasons, both you and your husband are letting an extremely toxic situation go on and escalate. It is basically abusive at this stage.
The way I read you posts is that you are both committed to your principles - not to each other.
- He is committed to financial support (according to what he is stating. I'd be careful to believe anything he says, tbh) so that he doesn't have to be the 'bad guy'
- You are committed to not breaking your vows and to your own sense of loyalty

I appreciate loyalty, but you can only be loyal for one person. It takes two people for a successful marriage. I used to be like you - loyalty was extremely important and "what is right is not always easy". You know what? Sometimes easy is good. Sometimes easy is right.

He has deeply betrayed you and your marriage in more than one way and you reward him by staying and waiting for him to get to his senses? How do you think that he will grow as a person if there are no consequences to his actions? In a way, you owe it to him to leave. 
As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure that what he is trying to do is drive you to initiate the divorce, so that he doesn't have to be the 'bad guy'. That is weak and cowardly in my book. It is much harder to break up with someone than it is to be left by someone, in my experience.

You are also betraying yourself. You are deliberately staying in a relationship that can only be described as abusive at this point. Don't let this go on. Instead of fixing him and fixing your marriage, you need to fix yourself - that is your main responsibility! It sounds to me like you need some serious counseling - and do not go to the church for that. If their main concern is to have you two stay together, they are part of the problem too.

You can never, ever change and grow another person. That person has to be motivated to change for her/himself.
You can only focus on changing yourself.
Ask yourself the following:
1) If a close, dear friend went through the same experience as you describe in your OP, what would your advice be? 
2) If your husband all of the sudden changes his mind, would you be able to trust him again?
3) If he did, what would happen if he did this to you again, down the road?
4) Why do you let yourself be treated this way? Why would you let things go so far?
5) Do you truly trust him with your finances - what is his true motif?
6) Do you love the person he is now?

The last question might be helpful because the answer might give you the strength to do what you have to do. Would the person that you thought you married have done a thing like this to you? If not, the person who you married does not exist anymore and might never have existed. You can't be married to a person who is a figment of the imagination. Then it's all a lie.

I encourage you to start the divorce proceedings. That way, you will have a slightly shorter way back to recovery and healing, dignity, self-respect, sense of control and empowerment.

Sorry for being so harsh, but you are in dire need of a reality check.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

This book was recommended to me today.
I'm gonna read the book, hoping to gain some insight into what I'm going through & how to begin moving forward.



http://www.amazon.com/Rebuilding-Relationship-Edition-Divorce-Beyond/dp/1886230692



http://mysecondchance.ca/Marriage%20Files/Rebuilding.pdf


iStoc


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

sweetraglansweater said:


> You want insight into the INFP perspective:
> 
> +we are driven towards our ideals, even ones not grounded in reality
> +we value autonomy, both for ourselves and others
> ...


Wow - this makes me wonder if I'm an infp 


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

I'm not an infp but from your story and what you've shared to us on here - your marriage is pretty much gone ( I know you know but you need to accept it ). I think what you need to do right now is REALIZE the husband that you want and fell for will always be with you - but the person you are living with now is not the same anymore . If he is indeed an infp - his feelings for you is gone and all is left is pity ( hence the reason why he's not giving you closure ). His actions are obvious ( more than obvious ) . He told you many times he can't be the husband you want .
"Let go" - I know it's hard , I know it's painful but the moment you admit that you need to let go - the pain will slowly go away - get to know yourself again - take a mini vacation or reconnect with old friends - keep yourself occupy - move away from him . Staying in the house won't help your relationship or get him to appreciate you any better - I know you're trying to prove to him that you're fighting for the relationship but to him it just looks needy and smothering. Time will heal everything 


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## HeartCartography (Mar 23, 2015)

@sweetraglansweater I read your post the other day and it did not impress upon me in the headspace I was occupying at the time.

Today, it is revelatory. Especially this portion:

"+we resent people who try to fix us or forcibly engage us, especially with their emotions or people who use logic to disguise their emotions which they put on us as obligatory"

It helps me to resolve some situations in my mind and is a helpful personal puzzle piece. Thank you for your insight.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> and didn't know why he just wanted to run away,


This is a problem with all INFP's that I've ever heard about or met.

In general, they shouldn't just get married like that... their personality is unsuited for a settled lifestyle.

They generally need adventurous marriages, where the marriage is what allows them to explore life, rather than settle into a comfortable situation.

Like one lady INFP I know, a Christian... she had a Christian husband, tried to make it work and stuff... but in the end it kills whatever this "spirit" is inside of them. It's like caging a bird that wants to fly in the trees.

The solution was for her to divorce and marry some guy in another country, and now she parties over in Europe somewhere. This guy is probably more adventurous than she is, so it works.

Here is a post I made several years ago about it:



Razare said:


> I'll explain it the best I can.
> 
> INFP's have the most difficulty being happy, I believe. (It's a relative thing, so who is to say for sure, but INFP's definitely have problems.)
> 
> ...





> That he just can't be a husband and even the thought of trying makes him unhappy.


You should take him up on that statement, and abandon the idea of a traditional marriage. You should abandon the notion of him being a husband toward you because as long as that obligation exists, he'll be opposed to the marriage. 

If you want to fix your marriage with him, here is how you do it. First, it's probably the commitments and the restraints which are making him unhappy, not YOU specifically, unless he has said this to you?

In other words, I would suggest a radical new format to the marriage if you want to improve it.

First, I would suggest moving. To make him happy, you two have to spin conventional living upside down and just abandon it. Even if it's the dumbest idea ever, just move somewhere exciting.

He probably has some dreams buried in his heart. He needs to go do those, and you need to be part of that, rather than a restraint working against it. It likely involves moving somewhere special to him, whether for the scenery or the culture there.



> I truly believe we could be happy again, but it seems he is just not willing to try??




Abandon the concept of a traditional marriage entirely when you talk with him.

Start talking about his dreams and what he would like to do with his life if he weren't married.

He should look at it this way, if he divorces you and remarries and finds himself in a similar situation... it wont really change anything. The format has to change to make INFP's happy.

Basically, he wants to run away... I suggest you run away with him.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Razare said:


> This is a problem with all INFP's that I've ever heard about or met.
> 
> In general, they shouldn't just get married like that... their personality is unsuited for a settled lifestyle.
> 
> ...


This really explains my infp aunt successful 52 years of marriage with her husband - she's so unsuited for marriage 
Secondly 
All marriage should be a loving and learning experience - settled - lost of interest and falling out of love is a lifestyle that isn't suitable for any type I believe - I wouldn't want to be with my partner if he fell out of love with me ( in her case he try making it clear to her verbally , emotionally and physically ) 
I do like your ideal and optimistic approach to solving her situation but I don't think we should give her hope - if you were to read all of her post it's pretty clear that her husband no longer has feelings for her 

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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

ai.tran.75 said:


> it's pretty clear that her husband no longer has feelings for her


Christians don't require marriages based on feelings, that's generally what keeps them going.

Marriages based on love (agape) is better, and this is only loosely connected with feelings, not dependent upon them existing.

In other words, there could be no feelings and a marriage can be fixed no problem. It just depends on the choices of the participants... if better choices are made, then feelings can later arise.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Razare said:


> Christians don't require marriages based on feelings, that's generally what keeps them going.
> 
> Marriages based on love (agape) is better, and this is only loosely connected with feelings, not dependent upon them existing.
> 
> In other words, there could be no feelings and a marriage can be fixed no problem. It just depends on the choices of the participants... if better choices are made, then feelings can later arise.


I don't think religion deals much with a persons emotion - And I understand Christianity quite well - my mom is a Sunday school teacher 


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

ai.tran.75 said:


> I don't think religion deals much with a persons emotion - And I understand Christianity quite well - my mom is a Sunday school teacher


90%+ of Christians failed to understand Christianity according to a decent poll, and then I'm just barely in the 10% and quite certainly I do not know much about it either.

I agree, in that if the husband is unwilling to do anything to *try* to improve things then it is hopeless... has nothing to do with feelings, though, it's a decision... a choice. We can make choices apart from our feelings quite easily, and as Christians are required to do this.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Razare said:


> This is a problem with all INFP's that I've ever heard about or met.
> 
> In general, they shouldn't just get married like that... their personality is unsuited for a settled lifestyle.
> 
> ...




Thanks for your insightful comments. Really quite interesting. Here's the thing ... while I definitely enjoy the exact things you described (stable home etc), throughout our marriage I have wanted to do lots of fun, adventurous things. Travel as an example - I love traveling. Every time I would suggest a trip to my husband or ask him if he wanted to go it was a no. I had to beg and plead with him to get him on the one international trip we took together (Ireland). I have been abroad at least three times now without him to visit family - and I traveled more before we got married. Every time I asked him "if you could go anywhere where would you want to go" or "what would be your dream vacation", he would say "I just want to stay here." If I said, lets go take this cool class ... not interested. Ironically, I recently found a twitter feed under his pen name where he posted a picture of Scotland with the text "my next vacation" ... huh?

After he first gave me the infamous letter I knew that our life together would never be the same and I let that go ... I would try to gently talk to him. I said, if you could imagine a life however you wanted it what would it be like? "I don't know" Well, would you want to stay at the same job? "Yes" ... but I could get nothing else out of him and then he withdrew completely ...

In my latest email, where I applied some tips INFPs here gave me I stated very clearly that I was going to go ahead and do the fun things I wanted to (like travel) and that I would always be wanting to do them with him, but either way I was going to do them.

He has never said a single word against me and has emphatically stated that none of this is my fault several times. I don't know that he loves me now, but in his initial letter he stated he did.

I have suggested to him that "being a husband" doesn't have to mean being how things were before that we could re-imagine our marriage completely. Nothing.

The main activities that he seems to be involved in are not anything that couldn't easily fit into being married - he took a second job teaching kids chess after school and has become very involved in tournaments of his own, he seems to be building a lego village, he likes hiking. He had expressed a desire to learn to swim awhile ago and I found him a school for adults that takes phobias into account. He learned to swim ... these aren't crazy out there activities and I have never had any problem with them ...

So, I guess what it comes down to is that I would be happy to "run away" with him, but he won't let me ... Maybe he is just in such a strong holding-pattern of not expressing his true desires and feelings that he can't. Or he just has no interest in me anymore. In which case I wish he would own up and move on, knowing that who I am doesn't allow me to walk away when there is still hope.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Razare said:


> Christians don't require marriages based on feelings, that's generally what keeps them going.
> 
> Marriages based on love (agape) is better, and this is only loosely connected with feelings, not dependent upon them existing.
> 
> In other words, there could be no feelings and a marriage can be fixed no problem. It just depends on the choices of the participants... if better choices are made, then feelings can later arise.



Lol, I just checked your MBTI type and was unsurprised to find out you are an INFJ ... lol ... this is exactly how I feel. The love chemicals in our brain only last so long, whether or not we choose to love after that is up to us. If you are committed to your marriage than eros (romantic-love) can come and go and come again, agape (principled love) is forever. The real problem is when both people aren't committed. Everything is a choice and, for me, your feelings may make your actions more understandable but you are still responsible for those actions and their consequences, no matter how you feel.

But what the INFPs on here seem to be saying is that they don't think the same way ... so, trying to accept that he may be in an entirely different pattern of thought.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> So, I guess what it comes down to is that I would be happy to "run away" with him, but he won't let me ... Maybe he is just in such a strong holding-pattern of not expressing his true desires and feelings that he can't. Or he just has no interest in me anymore. In which case I wish he would own up and move on, knowing that who I am doesn't allow me to walk away when there is still hope.


Ok so you tried it.

Next thing is to attack satan. If you are willing to do the natural things, then on your side it's not a matter of disobedience toward God, nor is a matter of you being unwilling to reach out to your husband in terms of behavior. The next level of the battle is spiritual.

This involves learning how to pray correctly. And how to take authority over the devil.

If your husband is a Christian and you are a Christian, you aught to be in a normal marriage.

Clearly, if he wont budge or talk, that's not normal Christian behavior. He has a stronghold. This stronghold is likely influenced by a demonic force.

I suggest the following materials:

- Believer's Authority by Kenneth Hagin
- A better way to Pray by Andrew Wommack

You need to be baptized in the Holy Ghost, like they were in Acts 8:16 if you have not been yet. There is a baptism into the body of Christ, and then a baptism into God's power.

This power, the word of God, which is a sword, you just attack the devil with it.

What then happens is your husband will have a very tough choice. From what I know, it leads to the following 2 outcomes:

1) Your husband will be forced to change
2) Your husband will leave you

If he chooses 2, that's what he ultimately wants anyway, and what this does is force the decision. Praying can't make people change if they want to oppose it... but it can force the devil to leave your marriage. When the devil leaves, he either takes your husband with him, or your husband resists and prevails, helping fix your marriage.

I once rebuked a devil out of a house in earnest because I knew it was there. It never occurred to me that the devil would take the man with him when he left. That's what happens to people who yield to the devil and refuse to resist. If your husband is a Christian, odds are he will resist.

------------

You could also do this more intelligent than me, and pray about influencing positive behavior in your husband, without necessarily the ultimatum. I'm thick headed, so this alternative could work too.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

I think it's a great thing that you're trying to repair your marriage, and I, like you, think that trying to make it work is the best solution.

What I don't understand is.. _Why _exactly he doesn't want to be in a marriage with you. Other than being married was nerve-wracking, which I also don't understand. Marriage shouldn't change your actual relationship-- It's just a symbol of the bond you shared before you were married. Or so I would think.

The only real reason it appears to me that he wanted space, was in order to pursue this co-worker. But, it didn't work out. Soo... He still wants to be separated? _Why _? Has he simply not communicated with you except through letters?

Fill me in on anything I've missed in the past 7 pages. Maybe I can help.


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## StroopWafel (Aug 25, 2015)

I found this thread very intriguing and read all the way through it to find that @Razare has basically said what I had been wanting to say. As a Christian, I am certain you have been praying for discernment and wisdom, but not certain if you have been praying against spiritual warfare. Even after all these years, I am still awestruck at how often spiritual warfare prayer is answered quickly and decisively. 

Another thing that struck me in this is that just because something is hard doesn't make it right. There's usually an outlier in any rule of thumb. I'm not necessarily saying the outlier applies here, but sometimes we have to consider that if everyone else is swimming with the current there might actually be a good reason for that. Again, not saying I believe the outlier applies here, but think it's worth stating in principle that we should examine our cultural notions sometimes.

As a real world situation for comparison, my spouse has a friend that has been living in a separate-but-married situation for about three years now. There was no, and still no, adultery or abuse, merely the friend's spouse no longer "being in love." They live in the same house like roommates, not a married couple. The kids are all in their teens now and understand the situation. The friend agreed to negotiate a divorce settlement in the first year and was more than generous in financial terms with split custody for the children. When it came time to sign, the friend asked that papers be set aside for one month and if the spouse still wanted the divorce after one month, they could finalize it. The month came and went, and as I mentioned above, it's now been about three years. They are cordial, speak to one another, manage the family same as before, but still live as roommates. I don't think it would work for me, but it is working for them.


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## StroopWafel (Aug 25, 2015)

I found this thread very intriguing and read all the way through it to find that @Razare has basically said what I had been wanting to say. As a Christian, I am certain you have been praying for discernment and wisdom, but not certain if you have been praying against spiritual warfare. Even after all these years, I am still awestruck at how often spiritual warfare prayer is answered quickly and decisively. 

Another thing that struck me in this is that just because something is hard doesn't make it right. There's usually an outlier in any rule of thumb. I'm not necessarily saying the outlier applies here, but sometimes we have to consider that if everyone else is swimming with the current there might actually be a good reason for that. Again, not saying I believe the outlier applies here, but think it's worth stating in principle that we should examine our cultural notions sometimes.

As a real world situation for comparison, my spouse has a friend that has been living in a separate-but-married situation for about three years now. There was no, and still no, adultery or abuse, merely the friend's spouse no longer "being in love." They live in the same house like roommates, not a married couple. The kids are all in their teens now and understand the situation. The friend agreed to negotiate a divorce settlement in the first year and was more than generous in financial terms with split custody for the children. When it came time to sign, the friend asked that papers be set aside for one month and if the spouse still wanted the divorce after one month, they could finalize it. The month came and went, and as I mentioned above, it's now been about three years. They are cordial, speak to one another, manage the family same as before, but still live as roommates. I don't think it would work for me, but it is working for them.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

I think the problem lay here - now that I'm seeing more infjs agreeing with your pov. As an NFP - I would never stay in a relationship with my partner if he fallen out of love with me- it's unfair for him it's unfair for me. Don't get me wrong I don't mean - boredom or lack of passion/intimacy as falling out of love - fallen out of love means - i don't see a future or WANT a future with that individual any longer and I can only see it making us BOTH more miserable the longer I stay . if my partner stay in a relationship with me out of pity or obligation or feels the way your husband does towards me - I will be deeply offended and resent him for feign emotion bc I guess I'm selfish - I want a partner who wants to be with me nothing less . You see the difference here ? We view things differently - we want different things . 
But just to clarify something - NFP are perfectly capable of marriage and commitment( my infp aunt has been married for over 50 years , I've been with my istp for 10) - we don't leave a person we love - I would risk my life - my own happiness - my everything for my husband and he the same for me - it's shown through our action - yes passion dies out eventually - but he's still my partner my best friend - i would fight and die for him - and if he was to fall out of love with me - I would wish him happiness with his next partner - and prefer to go on living my own life knowing that he was a part of it before and be content with that .
I read everything you posted - and honestly you deserve so much better - it's ok to be alone - he won't give you closure bc he's not strong enough - be the stronger person - walk away. Bc in the end if he truly is the one for you - time will bring you back together - if not its best for you to start living the life you wanted ( you wanted to travel - explore - learn- he doesn't ) do something positive for yourself . Make a list of what you want to achieve - what you want to learn. Best of luck 


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Word Dispenser said:


> I think it's a great thing that you're trying to repair your marriage, and I, like you, think that trying to make it work is the best solution.
> 
> What I don't understand is.. _Why _exactly he doesn't want to be in a marriage with you. Other than being married was nerve-wracking, which I also don't understand. Marriage shouldn't change your actual relationship-- It's just a symbol of the bond you shared before you were married. Or so I would think.
> 
> ...


Thanks Word Dispenser, I've already gotten lots of advice and some of it has been helpful. I am also talking to a counselor whose opinion is that he needs to address his childhood trauma issues and also may be suffering from a mild bipolar episode. All I have been able to definitively get out of him is that he doesn't believe he is "capable of being a loving, mature husband", he is sorry he "made me a promise he can't keep" (our marriage vows), and he "doesn't mind being married" but "he wants to be alone" ... I have asked him to clarify that last one, because to me it's a contradictory statement.

Not sure what you can add to the many posts already made, but I appreciate your interest.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> All I have been able to definitively get out of him is that he doesn't believe he is "capable of being a loving, mature husband", he is sorry he "made me a promise he can't keep" (our marriage vows)


That's indicative that he's become aware that he's broken inside & suffering.




NFGoneCrazy said:


> he "doesn't mind being married" but "he wants to be alone" ... I have asked him to clarify that last one, because to me it's a contradictory statement.



I wonder if by this > *"doesn't mind being married"* he's alluding that he doesn't want to hurt you, that he's attempting to spare you additional grief of an ugly divorce.

This part *"he wants to be alone" *causes me to ponder the likelihood that when his life gets to be overwhelming, he tends to withdraw & punish himself. Was there evidence of self esteem issues, does he ever feel not good enough for you?


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

@stargazing grasshopper Yes, his M.O. is to withdraw/ run away. Yes, he has always suffered from self-esteem issues and depression. I believe much of it stems from his parents being self-absorbed and somewhat emotionally abusive. They both came from abusive families. He was smack dab in the middle of seven closely spaced kids, his mother suffered from depression and chronic illnesses including having valley fever the first two years of his life - doubt he got much love or attention with three other kids under six to take care of as well. And when he was eight he shared a bed for several months with his older brother (12) who touched him inappropriately - so add the trauma of molestation to the bag. Parents eventually divorced and dad abandoned them. His dad's idea of parenting was to tell the kids they were worthless whenever they frustrated him and his mom is a control freak who would punish them for doing something "wrong" (like putting dishes away in the wrong cabinet) by not speaking to them for days until they begged forgiveness - got that story from his sister. He claims he remembers virtually none of his childhood - as I understand it a not-good sign.

He has many times expressed that he felt he wasn't good enough, that I should have married someone better, and/or insisted he loved me more than I loved him. I always tried my best to reassure him on these points. For years after we got married he was doing quite well and even said that being away from his family made a big difference ... I wish with all my heart I could convince him to see a good counselor ...


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> @_stargazing grasshopper_ Yes, his M.O. is to withdraw/ run away. Yes, he has always suffered from self-esteem issues and depression. I believe much of it stems from his parents being self-absorbed and somewhat emotionally abusive. They both came from abusive families. He was smack dab in the middle of seven closely spaced kids, his mother suffered from depression and chronic illnesses including having valley fever the first two years of his life - doubt he got much love or attention with three other kids under six to take care of as well. And when he was eight he shared a bed for several months with his older brother (12) who touched him inappropriately - so add the trauma of molestation to the bag. Parents eventually divorced and dad abandoned them. His dad's idea of parenting was to tell the kids they were worthless whenever they frustrated him and his mom is a control freak who would punish them for doing something "wrong" (like putting dishes away in the wrong cabinet) by not speaking to them for days until they begged forgiveness - got that story from his sister. He claims he remembers virtually none of his childhood - as I understand it a not-good sign.
> 
> He has many times expressed that he felt he wasn't good enough, that I should have married someone better, and/or insisted he loved me more than I loved him. I always tried my best to reassure him on these points. For years after we got married he was doing quite well and even said that being away from his family made a big difference ... I wish with all my heart I could convince him to see a good counselor ...


Wow that's a lot of abusive crap for the guy to have grown up with, sounds as though you two have several years of work ahead of yourselves.
It's tough to find a good psychotherapist that's accepting new clients, but it's worth the effort if your SO is willing to put in the work to benefit from professional help.
It really sucks when old hurts tear good people apart, I wish you two the best of luck & hope you can at least be good friends.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> Thanks Word Dispenser, I've already gotten lots of advice and some of it has been helpful. I am also talking to a counselor whose opinion is that he needs to address his childhood trauma issues and also may be suffering from a mild bipolar episode. All I have been able to definitively get out of him is that he doesn't believe he is "capable of being a loving, mature husband", he is sorry he "made me a promise he can't keep" (our marriage vows), and he "doesn't mind being married" but "he wants to be alone" ... I have asked him to clarify that last one, because to me it's a contradictory statement.
> 
> Not sure what you can add to the many posts already made, but I appreciate your interest.


So, he doesn't mind having the documents to declare you as married, but he doesn't want to actually partake in a relationship with you.

To my mind, it seems he's holding something back from you. He may be _saying _that he's not capable of being a loving, mature husband, but what he may be _thinking _or _holding back_, is that he just doesn't want to be with _you_.

This seems to be emphasized in how he disrespected your relationship by pursuing that co-worker.

I know it may hurt, but I can't see him straying for any other reason-- He is being firm, and trying to shut you out, because he doesn't _want _to come back in. In short, he's getting cold feet and feels trapped, even if unnecessarily.

When you sent him those pictures, and he was being a cold ass about it, it sounds like they didn't move him too much, and just made him angry.

From what I can see, you have two options.

1) What you _could _do is to directly ask him, "Was your being not able to be a mature husband an excuse, and you really just want to be alone? I understand, if so, but I need you to be honest with me. If the only reason you don't want to be with me is that you're not mature enough, we can work through that together. But, if you actually just want to be alone, then I need to know. Don't string me along and give me hope where there is none." And proceed from there. This is a sure-fire way to open communications-- And it may be conflicting, but it will probably be a good way to 'get it all out'.

2) If that doesn't work, and he's unwilling to communicate, then all you can do is wait, and keep talking to your therapist. As long as you keep trying to reach out to him, he's going to recede. If you're able to, give him space, let him be alone. Maybe even cut off communications with him (if you're able to-- I think I read somewhere about financial issues and/or living situation binding you together?).

Maybe someone already suggested these things, but quite a lot of the time in relationships, people will say the reason for breaking up is their own issues, when they actually have a problem with their partner, and they're not willing to talk about it because they don't want to hurt them. So they make excuses.

Separation and being alone doesn't mean it's over, and that you're giving up. It just means you're giving him time to think things over, and recognize his situation. And if _he _is giving up, and doesn't want to be with you, it's not your fault. You've been taking responsibility and trying to hold things together, but that kind of effort needs to be met from two fronts. You can't hold it together if he's not willing to.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

@NFGoneCrazy, so sorry to hear that your situation is really a difficult one...I'm sure I cannot imagine how hard that must be for you, and I truly feel for you. To be honest I hardly know what to say...At least it appears that so far you have done really well actually despite everything. I'm sure that Jehovah has been helping you to endure this trial, and keep praying and asking for help to cope. I hope it's alright if I pray for you as well?

Just remember: You cannot make your husband change, you cannot make him love you, you cannot make him open up and talk, and you cannot make him want to improve the marriage or to return to how things used to be...That's all up to him. Stay strong, but do not blame yourself for your husband's actions, they are his actions and not your own. Also, your deep respect for him and his need for personal space and privacy thru all of this he will no doubt think back on one day and see that you truly have been a good wife.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

ai.tran.75 said:


> I think the problem lay here - now that I'm seeing more infjs agreeing with your pov. As an NFP - I would never stay in a relationship with my partner if he fallen out of love with me- it's unfair for him it's unfair for me. Don't get me wrong I don't mean - boredom or lack of passion/intimacy as falling out of love - fallen out of love means - i don't see a future or WANT a future with that individual any longer and I can only see it making us BOTH more miserable the longer I stay . if my partner stay in a relationship with me out of pity or obligation or feels the way your husband does towards me - I will be deeply offended and resent him for feign emotion bc I guess I'm selfish - I want a partner who wants to be with me nothing less . You see the difference here ? We view things differently - we want different things .
> But just to clarify something - NFP are perfectly capable of marriage and commitment( my infp aunt has been married for over 50 years , I've been with my istp for 10) - we don't leave a person we love - I would risk my life - my own happiness - my everything for my husband and he the same for me - it's shown through our action - yes passion dies out eventually - but he's still my partner my best friend - i would fight and die for him - and if he was to fall out of love with me - I would wish him happiness with his next partner - and prefer to go on living my own life knowing that he was a part of it before and be content with that .
> I read everything you posted - and honestly you deserve so much better - it's ok to be alone - he won't give you closure bc he's not strong enough - be the stronger person - walk away. Bc in the end if he truly is the one for you - time will bring you back together - if not its best for you to start living the life you wanted ( you wanted to travel - explore - learn- he doesn't ) do something positive for yourself . Make a list of what you want to achieve - what you want to learn. Best of luck
> 
> ...




I just wanted to say, I have been thinking about what you posted and trying to objectively weigh in my mind whether this is actually the situation in our case - that he has simply stopped loving me and wants to move on. I can understand what you are saying about the moving on - I honestly don't believe that I couldn't move on fairly easily once I decide that the relationship is truly over. I don't let myself think about that too much or I could very easily "doorslam" him and it would be quite difficult to pry that door back open ...

I admit that there is a certain amount of disbelief on my part. Like when I read some horrific, disturbing story in the news about someone abusing or brutally killing another person - on the one hand I know that it is true, on the other hand there is a part of my brain that refuses to comprehend that it is possible for one human being to do that to another. I know that I am very sensitive to violence - reading something in a news story can disturb me to the point of feeling physically ill and distressed for hours or even days/months later if it pops into my head. So maybe it's some protective mechanism in my brain that a tiny element of disbelief lingers ...

Anyway, I don't feel in our case that it is simply that he fell out of love with me (though it is possible he has), I guess because he has not only cut me off emotionally but has cut off (even more than me) _all_ of his family and friends, including a brother that he was quite close to, and yet, appears to be actively living a "normal" life as if nothing whatsoever is wrong, with people who don't know him well (ie workmates that he formerly had no relationship with outside work) and people he has recently met online ...

This seems odd and more like he cannot deal with reality so is pretending that all of that doesn't exist? I truly do not believe he is deliberately trying to hurt me by ignoring me either - it's like he is actually _afraid_ of being in my vicinity. And I am somewhat conflict avoidant myself and simply do not _do_ yelling or aggression. I mean if this is truly the behavior of a normal INFP please enlighten me ... but we were friends before we were married and I just can't see this as normal, "moving on" behvaior ...


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## chinook (Sep 3, 2015)

I think it is courageous of you being so honest and vulnerable here. I really respect that.

I think it is perfectly fine to have whatever emotion you have an accept that, if possible, even learn to enjoy it. Enjoy being human through nice times, and difficult times. At the end of the day, it is maybe just emotions, and they can change, just like the weather if you are willing at one point.

Accept totally where you are, allow yourself to be down, but then you also need to kick your butt, and begin to believe again, not to end like a potential sad/lost soul. That is at least what I would have told myself


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> I just wanted to say, I have been thinking about what you posted and trying to objectively weigh in my mind whether this is actually the situation in our case - that he has simply stopped loving me and wants to move on. I can understand what you are saying about the moving on - I honestly don't believe that I couldn't move on fairly easily once I decide that the relationship is truly over. I don't let myself think about that too much or I could very easily "doorslam" him and it would be quite difficult to pry that door back open ...
> 
> I admit that there is a certain amount of disbelief on my part. Like when I read some horrific, disturbing story in the news about someone abusing or brutally killing another person - on the one hand I know that it is true, on the other hand there is a part of my brain that refuses to comprehend that it is possible for one human being to do that to another. I know that I am very sensitive to violence - reading something in a news story can disturb me to the point of feeling physically ill and distressed for hours or even days/months later if it pops into my head. So maybe it's some protective mechanism in my brain that a tiny element of disbelief lingers ...
> 
> ...


If he is going through a time of depression and finding himself - then I think you did the best - wait more than you could already . 
Did you do something that triggered his lost of interests ? That made him idealize for something else ? Does he hate himself for not loving you anymore ( is that the main reason why he's depress ) or is it something deeper ? Is he still attracted to his co-worker ? ( sorry for so many questions) 



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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

@ai.tran.75 the definitive answer to your questions is that I simply don't know because he will not talk to me openly. 

What I _think_ is this: 

I would say the self-hatred is long-standing and exacerbated by his violating his own values/ethics. He has spent his whole life feeling depressed and worthless because of his family/childhood issues/abuse, but instead of dealing with those issues/abuse he has run away from them and tried to pretend they don't exist, didn't happen, or that they can be solved by sheer willpower. Because of this he has created a pattern of denying his feelings and lying to people about how he feels in order to avoid conflict and go with the flow - meanwhile feeling worse and worse inside for not being true to himself. When he married his wife (me) he probably secretly or subconsciously thought his wife (me) was his salvation from these issues, but unfortunately he wasn't magically fixed (because you can only fix yourself and control your own personal happiness) and, though things were good at first, he had to lie more and more to be sure his wife (me) wouldn't abandon him for revealing his true feelings on matters ranging from goals and dreams to the kind of food he liked (I wish I were kidding). After all, as a child he was punished or taunted for revealing how he really felt about anything. Since talking to his wife (or anyone else close to him) about how he _really_ felt would have meant revealing that he had been lying all this time and create, God forbid, _conflict_ or possibly _disapproval_ and _judgment_, he instead starting confiding his hopes and dreams to a coworker. Since she only had as much information as he chose to give her he could basically create himself as whoever he wanted to be and continue ignoring the issues from his past. Naturally, his coworker was so kind and understanding that he couldn't help "falling in love" with her. Therefore, he perhaps reasons that this person _must_ be his _true_ "soulmate" and not his wife as he previously thought. This makes him feel even worse because he feels like falling in love with someone else besides his wife validates his belief that he is essentially a "bad person". Ergo, he feels cannot be married - he is just too immature and "bad" to be a loving husband. Meanwhile his coworker wants to be "just friends" (when I said he pursued her I basically just meant that he tried to make the relationship more than friends but it didn't happen), which is also torture (but a familiar torture from his past - unrequited love). He is starting to realize though that there is something very wrong, but his conclusion continues to be that he is a "bad" person. Now, whenever he sees his wife or anyone related to his life from before he has bad feelings - he's not sure exactly what these feelings entail because he is too afraid to examine them. So he just wants to be left alone so that he can ignore the bad feelings and pretend they are not there. He makes friends with new people who don't know any of his past and they "accept" him for "who he is", because he can present himself as whoever he wants and pretend the past doesn't exist. Eventually all the issues will catch up to him again, but in the meantime he keeps himself busy "having fun" and avoids anything that might make him feel "bad." When his wife (me) tries to talk to him all he can hear in his head is "she is judging me, I am a bad person, I have to get away", no matter what she (I) says.

I could be off-base here but that is my current speculation on why he is behaving as he is based on my knowledge of his past, our friendship and marriage, my understanding (based on reading) of abuse victims and unhealthy INFPs, and things he has said/written more recently before he shut me out entirely.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> @ai.tran.75 the definitive answer to your questions is that I simply don't know because he will not talk to me openly.
> 
> What I _think_ is this:
> 
> ...


Can I ask why you want to save this relationship so much ? What is it about him that you love so much or is it your faith that makes you want your relationship to work . 

From how I see it - he's running away from his past bc it brings him guilt and you stated before he married you thinking you're the key to solving his problem. Now he sees you he sees guilt - perhaps in the beginning you saw a different side of him ( an image of himself he likes) now you know the real him and he's not ok with it . He's chasing after the idea of something and escaping reality - and sadly you're the reality in this situation . 
Do you feel that he lost interests in you ( I forgot to ask this) if not which action of his indicates that he's still interested - do you think perhaps this is just a phase ? If that's the case - prove to him that reality is more meaningful than fantasy- walk out of his life- the moment he realize he lost something great he will appreciate you more . 


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> he had to lie more and more to be sure his wife (me) wouldn't abandon him


Unfortunately the reality is closer to him abandoning you. He may not believe that is the case for the time being if someone told him, as he doesn't want to believe that he is capable of abandoning someone due to not wanting to be anything like his father...but from an unbiased angle that at least appears to be what's happening.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

He's a Superhero! said:


> Unfortunately the reality is closer to him abandoning you. He may not believe that is the case for the time being if someone told him, as he doesn't want to believe that he is capable of abandoning someone due to not wanting to be anything like his father...but from an unbiased angle that at least appears to be what's happening.


I sometimes wonder if it's an "I will abandon you before you can abandon me" type situation but he can't quite bring himself to pull the trigger. Thanks for your unbiased opinion!


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Can I ask why you want to save this relationship so much ? What is it about him that you love so much or is it your faith that makes you want your relationship to work .
> 
> From how I see it - he's running away from his past bc it brings him guilt and you stated before he married you thinking you're the key to solving his problem. Now he sees you he sees guilt - perhaps in the beginning you saw a different side of him ( an image of himself he likes) now you know the real him and he's not ok with it . He's chasing after the idea of something and escaping reality - and sadly you're the reality in this situation .
> Do you feel that he lost interests in you ( I forgot to ask this) if not which action of his indicates that he's still interested - do you think perhaps this is just a phase ? If that's the case - prove to him that reality is more meaningful than fantasy- walk out of his life- the moment he realize he lost something great he will appreciate you more .
> ...


I would say that it goes against not only my religious beliefs but against my own core values - who I am as a person - to walk away from my marriage. I really don't think he knows what he feels toward me and until I do it is hard to make life-changing decisions. I believe that if he ever gets up the courage to face his issues that he will be an even better more amazing person than the man I married. So, I guess I am hoping for that.

I understand your point about leaving, but it just goes against everything I believe to do so.


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## He's a Superhero! (May 1, 2013)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> I sometimes wonder if it's an "I will abandon you before you can abandon me" type situation but he can't quite bring himself to pull the trigger. Thanks for your unbiased opinion!


I think you could be right there...That's a fairly common unhealthy mental state, with varying degrees of course, which is always caused by being a victim of abandonment by at least one important figure in the person's life.

The fact that you haven't abandoned him thru all of this but remained loyal and supportive gives testament to your character.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

NFGoneCrazy said:


> I would say that it goes against not only my religious beliefs but against my own core values - who I am as a person - to walk away from my marriage. I really don't think he knows what he feels toward me and until I do it is hard to make life-changing decisions. I believe that if he ever gets up the courage to face his issues that he will be an even better more amazing person than the man I married. So, I guess I am hoping for that.
> 
> I understand your point about leaving, but it just goes against everything I believe to do so.


Leaving him will not make you look weak and in this case you are not leaving him out of selfishness but rather you are helping him grow -
In your eyes staying by his side is strength - or perhaps you want to prove him wrong that you would never abandon him - but walking away requires a larger amount of strength - you can leave him a letter saying you'll always be a phone call away and love him. You've tried every option and he seems to take you for granted - perhaps it's time to try a different approach . 


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Leaving him will not make you look weak and in this case you are not leaving him out of selfishness but rather you are helping him grow -
> In your eyes staying by his side is strength - or perhaps you want to prove him wrong that you would never abandon him - but walking away requires a larger amount of strength - you can leave him a letter saying you'll always be a phone call away and love him. You've tried every option and he seems to take you for granted - perhaps it's time to try a different approach .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I appreciate your reply and understand what you are trying to say. For me it is not about strength/weakness but about not violating my own values/principles. Sure, my life would be easier if I didn't have to deal with this - and frankly I am confident I would be just fine without him. But I would have to live with violating my own principles and conscience. 

Maybe it's an INFJ thing or maybe it's just me ... 

This made me think of a deal I did for work a few years back -the Clifton Strengths-Finder. My "strengths" were Belief, Intellection, Responsibility, Developer, and Input. If you aren't familiar with the test that means this:

*Belief* - I have certain very strong core values that I live by
*Intellection* - I am very introspective and like to think and discuss
*Responsibility* - I take psychological ownership for what I say I will do and am committed to my values
*Developer* - I recognize and cultivate the potential in others
*Input* - I have a craving to know more and am always collecting information

Maybe that illustrates better who I am and why it's not a simple question of me of walking away because someone in my life is not living up to their promises or is treating me poorly. I know they told me at the time that having Belief as #1 strength is very rare. But then, so is being an INFJ supposedly.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Leaving him will not make you look weak and in this case you are not leaving him out of selfishness but rather you are helping him grow


I think that he's very likely to crash into severe depression if she were to leave him.
If his behavior is as she alluded to being some type of subconscious shit test (abandonment issues), then the worse thing she could do is to leave him.
Leaving him would reinforce belief that he's unwanted & unworthy of being loved, it'll likely cause him to collapse & shut down for a while. Then after his psyche has affirmed that he's unworthy, he'll soon begin another chapter of unhealthy cyclic behavior.




ai.tran.75 said:


> In your eyes staying by his side is strength - or perhaps you want to prove him wrong that you would never abandon him


By sticking around & encouraging him to seek help, she may be able to reach the wounded child within the man & just maybe he'd realize that not everybody will give up on & abandon him.
Her giving him hope & the courage to seek help will make the difference that could save him from a painful existence.

The trauma of severe childhood abuse never goes away but it can be minimized by learning coping skills & rebuilding the self image. She alludes that he has a well of potential to be an even greater man than he was before he fell apart this time & she appears to be committed to putting in the work.

It's easier to just quit, take a few years off to heal yourself & then start over with another.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> I think that he's very likely to crash into severe depression if she were to leave him.
> If his behavior is as she alluded to being some type of subconscious shit test (abandonment issues), then the worse thing she could do is to leave him.
> Leaving him would reinforce belief that he's unwanted & unworthy of being loved, it'll likely cause him to collapse & shut down for a while. Then after his psyche has affirmed that he's unworthy, he'll soon begin another chapter of unhealthy cyclic behavior.
> 
> ...


How exactly is she abandoning him by telling him that she understand that he wanted space and that she's always a phone call away? I suggest her moving out because - he needs to know that he misses her in order for him to want her- she's not walking out of the relationship shes leaving the house - staying in wouldn't improve the relationship - he KNOWS she loves him and want to stay married to him . Staying in longer and looking for help and seeking help for him may give him the impression that she think he isn't good enough - she wants to run his life- change him - not take him for who he truly is . The only way for the relationship to work is for him to realize that he want her in it and living in the same roof will not solve that problem 


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

ai.tran.75 said:


> How exactly is she abandoning him by telling him that she understand that he wanted space and that she's always a phone call away? I suggest her moving out because - he needs to know that he misses her in order for him to want her- she's not walking out of the relationship shes leaving the house - staying in wouldn't improve the relationship - he KNOWS she loves him and want to stay married to him . Staying in longer and looking for help and seeking help for him may give him the impression that she think he isn't good enough - she wants to run his life- change him - not take him for who he truly is . The only way for the relationship to work is for him to realize that he want her in it and living in the same roof will not solve that problem
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 The description within the OP & several subsequent comments kinda reminds me of a woman that I kinda knew some years ago. 
IDK my mind is dead tired, let me think it over until tomorrow.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

Just an update. 
@stargazing grasshopper and @ai.tran.75 thanks for your two perspectives. I have a really good job offer for beginning of next year in Taiwan - thinking about just telling him that since he keeps saying he wants to be alone I am going to give him 100% his space, but I am available to talk and willing to come home whenever/if ever he wants. 

Two things holding me back from making a final decision are:

1) I have an ill grandmother (she is 92 and has cancer) and I don't want to leave her or my mother (who is approaching 70 herself) with no support in caring for her (we are the only nearby family she has). She could pass away in the next few months or live for years - no way of knowing.

2) I really like the job I have and am not sure I want to leave it or leave my employer in the lurch (they just hired me a month ago) - I don't know if I would want to live abroad permanently if things don't work out, so it's a little scary to give up a good job here.

I have a few months to decide ... in the meantime, since he has chosen not to respond to my most recent email (a week ago in response to an email he wrote) I have chosen to distance myself emotionally and physically and not initiate any kind of contact with him. My email made it very clear that I am not abandoning him or giving up, so ... yeah


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

ai.tran.75 said:


> How exactly is she abandoning him by telling him that she understand that he wanted space and that she's always a phone call away? I suggest her moving out because - he needs to know that he misses her in order for him to want her- she's not walking out of the relationship shes leaving the house - staying in wouldn't improve the relationship - he KNOWS she loves him and want to stay married to him . Staying in longer and looking for help and seeking help for him may give him the impression that she think he isn't good enough - she wants to run his life- change him - not take him for who he truly is . The only way for the relationship to work is for him to realize that he want her in it and living in the same roof will not solve that problem
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Okay I misunderstood & was wrong, she's made it clear that she's not abandoning him & she'll keep the lines of communication open.
I've experience with temporarily moving out & living apart. Gotta say that it sucks because you can become numbed to being apart from your SO. Maybe several months later somebody else has taken your place & you can never go back to the way things were before. Things can get very complicated & blurry in a hurry.


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## NFGoneCrazy (Aug 29, 2015)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> I think that he's very likely to crash into severe depression if she were to leave him.
> If his behavior is as she alluded to being some type of subconscious shit test (abandonment issues), then the worse thing she could do is to leave him.
> Leaving him would reinforce belief that he's unwanted & unworthy of being loved, it'll likely cause him to collapse & shut down for a while. Then after his psyche has affirmed that he's unworthy, he'll soon begin another chapter of unhealthy cyclic behavior.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to let you know that I agree with all of this and appreciate your insight. Just, have been trying for over a year now with very little positive response, so starting to see the need to protect myself emotionally as well. Really don't want a separation and agree with what you commented above as well. Distance does not always make the heart grow fonder. I'm not quitting or giving up on my marriage just yet, but circumstances force me to take a large step back and see what happens. Thank you!


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey your name appears kinda bluish purple, kinda lilac colored.
Did you become a junior moderator or something along that line?


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> Hey your name appears kinda bluish purple, kinda lilac colored.
> Did you become a junior moderator or something along that line?


i have no idea- i turned from orange to pink now purple lol


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