# Tactical / Strategic Renin



## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> o.o how so? <.<...>.> tbh Tactical+Result is kinda chaotic, there is a worse way to do things?


Yes, there are much worse ways to do things. The apprehension of warlord Farrah Aidid was a prime example of FUBARed plans the first time around.

You can read about it on the wiki/internet or watch Black Hawk Down for a fairly accurate depiction of how even an operation planned to perfection can go to sh*t quickly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Task_Force
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0265086/


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

MNiS said:


> Yes, there are much worse ways to do things. The apprehension of warlord Farrah Aidid was a prime example of FUBARed plans the first time around.
> 
> You can read about it on the wiki/internet or watch Black Hawk Down for a fairly accurate depiction of how even an operation planned to perfection can go to sh*t quickly.
> 
> ...


o.o yeah, but if plans go to shit you just improvise (this is what tactical is). >.> there was this debate in the IP platoon whether planned out strategy is actually useful when engaging the enemy in planetside 2 warfare. As you can imagine we sort of came to the conclusion that its a good idea to have a plan for the first engagement, but anything after that is improvisation and responding to the enemy with tactics. Conquering the map ultimately depends on tactics and response time / how fast people can adapt to changing conditions on the ground & deploy accordingly to counter it.

...btw are you in the army or something? War is a hobby ^^?


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> o.o yeah, but if plans go to shit you just improvise (this is what tactical is).


Watch the movie then. o.o



> ...btw are you in the army or something?


No, but I am an avid enthusiast of the US Army though. XD There are just so many good stories of courage, heroism and sacrifice. Like, I don't even know what the 88th glider regiment did on D-Day. Probably eliminate HVT missions.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

MNiS said:


> Watch the movie then. o.o
> 
> No, but I am an avid enthusiast of the US Army though. XD There are just so many good stories of courage, heroism and sacrifice. Like, I don't even know what the 88th glider regiment did on D-Day. Probably eliminate HVT missions.


o.o already saw Black Hawk Down on HBO when it was released.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> o.o already saw Black Hawk Down on HBO when it was released.


Then you should know that what you said isn't true. There are limits to human ingenuity... unless you're trying to say you're absolutely infallible. o.o I would never say that. =_=


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

MNiS said:


> Then you should know that what you said isn't true. There are limits to human ingenuity... unless you're trying to say you're absolutely infallible. o.o I would never say that. =_=


In planetside that won't work. You can plan in loose terms, like set a direction or know what zones you have to hold, where the choke points are etc. Making a detailed plan when the enemy's position is constantly changing is impossible.

Usually what happens is that we have the platoon leaders who check in with command on what the other platoons are planning, then we check the enemy's position on the map, maybe do a quick recon to see where the bulk of the army is moving. Based on this intel and the map situation we coordinate with the other active platoons and decide what the next move is, where to drop, do we get a mobile air platform ad drop behind enemy lines or deploy heavy artillery on some hilltop to side flank the enemy convoy, will we get air support, bombard, infiltrate and hack, then deploy a mobile spawn point inside the base, do we use gorilla tactics and take out HVT spawn points around a deadlocked zone to cripple enemy reinforcements and so on.

This stuff ultimately decides the battle for the day. There usually is no detailed plan, because that would never work in practice outside of the first engagement for the day. Set a plan and watch it crumble around you lol as the enemy doesn't react how it should, another enemy outfit comes online and decides to blow up your heavy tank convoy leaving you without resources for a new one etc.

Plans fail, one needs to reinvent the approach at every step. Its the whole fun in the game, watching hundreds of people work together to achieve something.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

I'm talking about reality, not a video game. In reality, people die and there are no respawns or resets. Some people receive a free pass because they've earned it, not because of an entitlement.

@_FreeBeer_


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

MNiS said:


> I'm talking about reality, not a f**king video game. In reality, people die and there are no respawns or resets. Some people receive a free pass because they've earned it, not because of an entitlement.
> 
> @_FreeBeer_


Yeah, but the point here is to illustrate the dichotomies, not what happens in real life in war. IRL in war its different, but the soldier's ability to improvise on the ground still remains important if something goes wrong. I have never been in real war and I hope I never get to see one / never have to make the choice between my life and some other poor bastard's.

I died enough times to random bullets from enemys and friendlies in game to know just how thin the line is between life ad death if I ever find myself in a war situation....very high probability of dieing within the first few minutes.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> Yeah, but the point here is to illustrate the dichotomies, not what happens in real life in war. IRL in war its different, but the soldier's ability to improvise on the ground still remains important if something goes wrong. I have never been in real war and I hope I never get to see one / never have to make the choice between my life and some other poor bastard's.


I'm just simply saying don't equate your behavior in a video game, no matter how fun or seemingly accurate to how you would react in real life. Those two situations oftentimes are not the same... unless you're absolutely not afraid to die. However, I have that fear. That's actually why I've teamed up with ESTPs in the past because they don't want to die in life or death situations either. You must not have ever been in that type of situation before. Ever had your mind clouded and your judgment impaired? *Fear can cause Ni-ego and especially Ne-ego types to act or react in ways they wouldn't do otherwise and to begin making tactical or strategic errors.*


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

MNiS said:


> I'm just simply saying don't equate your behavior in a video game, no matter how fun or seemingly accurate to how you would react in real life. Those two situations oftentimes are not the same... unless you're absolutely not afraid to die. However, I have that fear. That's actually why I've teamed up with ESTPs in the past because they don't want to die in life or death situations either. You must not have ever been in that type of situation before. Ever had your mind clouded and your judgment impaired? *Fear can do that to an Ne-ego type.*


Never been in a situation where death was imminent, so I don't know.

I have been ganged up on and threatened with physical violence before, but that never made me go hazy, more like racing thoughts, had my nose broken and I bled into my hat so much ^^ I could squeeze the blood out of it :S...his effing ring cut the inside of my nose (I tell you, you don't feel the punches in a fight...adrenalin). In a fight I'd probably be so jacked up on adrenalin I probably wouldn't feel much pain if a bullet shot through my side missed anything major and exited the other side lol.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> Never been in a situation where death was imminent, so I don't know.


This kind of works on me for something I enjoy, but only if I know I have the discipline to follow through. If you're playing like Planetside or whatever your current game infatuation is, tell yourself you can never respawn and if you die with your first character then you can't play again for the rest of the day. See how much differently you play then. For me, I play super cautious... like comically so. =_=

Let me give you an example from my fertile mind though. There was one time I was a squad leader on a paintball team and my orders were to ensure that my squad (and I) take zero combat losses on the battlefield. So I started leading very carefully and members on my own squad were calling me a coward and to go DIAF. -______- They never overthrew the chain of command though and I had completely my objective so ~nyeh~ to them. 



> I have been ganged up on and threatened with physical violence before, but *that never made me go hazy, more like racing thoughts,*


Same.



> had my nose broken and I bled into my hat so much ^^ I could squeeze the blood out of it :S...his effing ring cut the inside of my nose (I tell you, you don't feel the punches in a fight...adrenalin). In a fight I'd probably be so jacked up on adrenalin I probably wouldn't feel much pain


Yes, but if it doesn't kill you, it's going to hurt like crazy. I avoid pain if whenever possible.



> if a bullet shot through my side missed anything major and exited the other side lol.


That would be a painless death but still, since that violates my fear of dying I'd still want to avoid it.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

MNiS said:


> This kind of works on me for something I enjoy, but only if I know I have the discipline to follow through. If you're playing like Planetside or whatever your current game infatuation is, tell yourself you can never respawn and if you die with your first character then you can't play again for the rest of the day. See how much differently you play then. For me, I play super cautious... like comically so. =_=


^^ yeah lol and we'd die to something funny like a rogue grenade within a few minutes. There is so much going on in a firefight...if people stop moving they are dead.....for sure. The key to survival is to move and move as often as one can always into cover and always with the squad. If some dude spots you cautiously looking out a window...he will camp the window with a sniper rifle just to head shot you in case you look out again....:S...lone wolfing it is always a bad idea and "heroes" are accidents waiting to happen. Team play, listen to the platoon leader, from cover to cover, follow the objective and stay alive till objective is complete ^^;...make sure the rest of the squad stays alive as well.

Btw, it seems we are supporting the Travis Manion Foundation this weekend on Planetside....w8 was that last weekend? :\ fuck should have bought that decal to send some support.

I'm definitely afraid of dieing ^^ lol.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

FreeBeer said:


> There is so much going on in a firefight...if people stop moving they are dead.....for sure.


That's never true in a firefight unless you're being shelled or something. Snipers are best for taking out mortar teams or for counter-sniping than against MG crews. Now, if it's an artillery strike or an aerial strike or a coastal bombardment or in your case an orbital bombardment, that's another matter. 



> The key to survival is to move and move as often as one can always into cover and always with the squad. If some dude spots you cautiously looking out a window...he will camp the window with a sniper rifle just to head shot you in case you look out again....:S


That reminds me of sniper alley in Half-Life 2. If you've ever played that part, did you kill the snipers or leave them alone once you passed them? I'd usually toss only one grenade inside their usually cavernous sniper's den and leave it at that. The only problem with that is they'd sometimes throw the grenade back out before it'd explode though. Like a deadly (video)game of hot potato.



> ...lone wolfing it is always a bad idea and "heroes" are accidents waiting to happen. Team play, listen to the platoon leader, from cover to cover, follow the objective and stay alive till objective is complete ^^;...make sure the rest of the squad stays alive as well.


Yes, I agree one hundred percent.



> Btw, it seems we are supporting the Travis Manion Foundation this weekend on Planetside....w8 was that last weekend? :\ fuck should have bought that decal to send some support.


Eh? What's that?



> I'm definitely afraid of dieing ^^ lol.


Yes.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

MNiS said:


> Eh? What's that?


The Travis Manion Foundation

<.< well I wasn't online last weekend and missed the sale. Planetside decal and other sales went to the foundation....



> That's never true in a firefight unless you're being shelled or something.


Shelled by long range artillery, air support, suppressed by LMG teams, anti infantry turrets, grenades flying through the windows, where you are crouched right below the window in a bunker hoping the other platoon pulls a light tank convoy or air support from the next base and liberates your sorry ass XD by flanking the enemy hard enough for you and the rest to push from the bunker and trap them between a rock and hard place...oh yeah....plus charging enemy positions while laying down cover fire, shells flying overhead...can't get more fun then that ....freaking D-day every day.

*ala: *" O_O guys guys! Redeploy to the western hill, pull an AMS sundy with bloackade armor, heavies with lancers, engies, drop 2 beacons and pull liberators! NOW NOW NOW! They are camping point, we can't push from the spawn room! <_< I will fucking c4 anyone who stays in the spawn room! Call command, request backup!....:| mother of God...the NC zerg is here....blast that armor column to pieces before we lose the alert!"

*^^; I personally think the good ingame platoon leaders tend to be tactical types fer sure.*

Never played HL 2 to be honest ^^;...I hear its good, it just never hooked me. I did play both portal games thou. So much better.


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