# Mistypes



## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

I'd like to see a proper discussion about mistypes and mistyping in general, thus this thread. People mistype, that's understandable and common but still, rather sad. It promotes nobody's wellbeing. And, in places like these, mistypes confuse other people which potentially creates new mistypes.

So... How to deal with mistypes? Is it best to just "live and let live"? Or could we get inspired by this created by lovely and @Sneaky Bastard? Sometimes someone just cannot see the most obvious thing while others do  _*whoopsie, been there by myself too*_ And the worst thing is when you literally waste your time with the wrong type(s) only postponing the real growing and self-awareness. Many times it's easy to notice how someone is clearly on the wrong track and not aware of it. 

Would it be possible to have a thread where people could just express their doubts (gently) about someone's type? Others could reply to it and it would not become rude. I think one problem in this forum has been the way people sometimes get treated. Some people send PMs when they notice a mistyped person and while it _can_ be done very nicely, very nasty things can be said too. An open discussion might be better since it would give more support to the possibly mistyped person. Any negative treatment would be noticed and avoided much more efficiently.

If it seems too rude (despite the good intentions) to mention people who you think _might_ be mistyped, could we have a thread for people to express their _own_ doubts about their typing (without starting another type me thread)? Others could give feedback. It might actually benefit many of us.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

zallla said:


> I'd like to see a proper discussion about mistypes and mistyping in general, thus this thread. People mistype, that's understandable and common but still, rather sad. It promotes nobody's wellbeing. And, in places like these, mistypes confuse other people which potentially creates new mistypes.
> 
> So... How to deal with mistypes? Is it best to just "live and let live"? Or could we get inspired by this created by lovely and @Sneaky Bastard? Sometimes someone just cannot see the most obvious thing while others do  _*whoopsie, been there by myself too*_ And the worst thing is when you literally waste your time with the wrong type(s) only postponing the real growing and self-awareness. Many times it's easy to notice how someone is clearly on the wrong track and not aware of it.
> 
> ...


One thing i've learned in my time at PerC, trying to set up a thread about mistypes is fruitless. It used to make my hair stand on ends seeing people i perceived as being typed all wrong. It can end either ugly, someone is offended regardless of information you can objectively give , it doesn't matter. People become super glued to their 4 letters, not everyone, although for those who do it's enough to create a small war. 

Keep in mind that the average user here is 20 or less. Many aren't even developed on a psychological level ( 14-19 ) this produces lots of mistypes. These days i don't care or have the time and energy trying to explain what i see, how my thoughs should be relevant with people i believe are so far removed from reality in terms of cognitive functions and how they see themselves using them.

An open discussion won't be helpful, it will only leave room and opportunities for the mistypes to come along and give advice to the mistypes. Rinse and repeat. Any thread with the word _mistypes_ only ends in derails, stereotypes, generalizations, typist remarks and trolling. Infractions are at it's highest peek  so is popcorn.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I have thought about this a bit for a few reasons.
- As an admin, a lot of people have come to me complaining about being poked at over alleged mistyping. 
- I also had my own experience on another forum where I was publicly humiliated and taunted by having someone I formerly trusted dredge up personal conversations that I'd shared in confidence, to assist those people in using very personal private information against me. I felt completely violated. 
- I have witnessed others being accosted and chased around, and told that they're wrong about their self-typings. 

It can conjure various negative emotions in different people: feeling violated (like in my case), bullyed, embarrassed, annoyed, shamed, stupid (_you mean you know me better than I know me?_).

I came to the conclusion that a lot of this would be easier if it was done privately. If members were to send a PM to a person they think is mistyped - as a suggestion to see if they are open to it, it would be a lot less messy than publicly calling them out. 

I think that intentions are questioned when its public as well. Such as, is s/he trying to embarrass me, use this to invalidate my opinions, win an ego-battle.. and so on. 

As for what I think personally when I see someone who I believe to be mistyped. I wonder what they see in themselves to think they are that type. Sometimes a mistype can look silly, sure. Sometimes a mistyping can be ironic, when they are fond of calling others out on mistypes. For the most part - I don't really care if someone is mistyped. They are on their own quest and it has nothing to do with me.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

The whole thought of creating a mistype thread could have some good attributes to it. However, I don't have any reason to believe that, despite pure intentions, it wouldn't be taken over by people who I've seen get into typing arguments with others (even on non-typing threads); trying to vomit their enneagram beliefs down others throats. 

If there could be a way to maybe control who gives advice, or have it HEAVILY moderated; I could, possibly, see it working then. 

I think the best way to combat mistypes is to keep the enneagram forums active and welcoming with lots of information; to the point when someone does hang out in a type forum, it won't be long until they see that they might be different than other people in there. Finding ones type is a personal journey, that should be traveled with a fuel of knowledge and a vehicle of self- it's NOT a rat race or something anyone else should be able to tell you.


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## BooksandButterflies (Jul 26, 2012)

Personally, if someone thinks I've mistyped, I welcome their thoughts. So long as it's done respectfully! It's when people do things like "You think you're a six?! What are you crazy?!" that kind of stuff i DO NOT welcome! Maybe it depends on the person. If you think they'd be hurt or upset, leave it be.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Thanks for all of you, this has been interesting.

Mistypes, especially when happening among more active members, is very misleading for those who are just learning. They get a pretty biased impression of the types and might become mistyped by themselves. Mistyping is also rather annoying for many. It's annoying for many of those who actually _are_ type Y because with many mistypes they won't experience the feeling of being with like-minded individuals. It is also annoying for those who can see through the attempts to justify and explain the latest turns and discoveries especially if the person in question is even slightly attention-seeking and often making it a show where any kind of popcorns won't make it entertaining.

Is there any limit one can actually exceed? When does the behavior of someone who seems to be on the wrong track become "too much"? Good threads and discussions have been ruined because of mistypes and attempts to prove the typing. Also, there's just so much inaccurate information written by many members (including myself) who have thought they are type X while they actually are type Z. That's totally "normal" but couldn't something be done at some point or should people just wait and hope for the best?

Yes, if there was a thread where you could actually mention people, it should obviously not be declaring or forcing anything but just giving feedback that is only feedback and nothing more. Is it too optimistic to assume that it could remain nice enough? I think that people could take it or leave it and preferably get other kind of feedback too, not just the perspective of the person who mentioned them. The problem with getting private messages is that the feedback you get is usually coming from one person only and no-one is really making sure it's actually beneficial feedback.

*If a thread for giving feedback is too much, then a thread for asking it might work.* Just expressing doubts of your typing would be much easier than starting another type me thread. One would not have to write more than "I'm not sure if I'm type X after all... What do you guys think?" or something like that and others could say what they think. It might produce a lot more feedback when people could just say what they think without having to analyze a lot of information and compare it to the previous knowledge they have about the person. It could be honest and gently. And it might actually benefit many others unsure of their typing too.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

@zallla

I *completely* get where you're coming from with this. I don't disagree with the fact that there are probably mistypes out there and that they can and do spout wrong information and can lead to more mistypes. The issue I have is that there's already a whole section where one can request typing help. I don't follow a lot of threads on there, but I have seen some that got a little out of hand and those that were peaceful and very helpful. I don't see how creating a separate thread would really make much of a difference; negative/trollish people will still have access to it (if they are a member of the site). I'm not saying it would have any sort of negative results; I just think it would be the same as the type me forum, just on a smaller scale. 

I'll admit that I even created a "type me" thread, but that was before I understood what the enneagram was about. Since then I have become REALLY against having people who don't know the person being typed, typing them. Filling out surveys, reading descriptions of behavior can only take you so far. We're typing FEARS and MOTIVATIONS, something that can only be seen on a small scale, if at all. Someone could have the best intentions and point something out, but be completely wrong behind the motivations behind the ones the "helper" placed on them. What happens then? 

If we do go the mistype route, I think it would be beneficial to have one thread in each type forum. OR, maybe, as each person asks, people of that type should be mentioned to help guide the questioner through understanding why they are/MAY NOT be that type. I know there are people who are well versed in the theory on this site, but I think it's important for others of the type that is in question to be there and provide input, for as little bias a possible. I've seen the kind of things types project on others when their only understanding of the type is something they've read/based on an experience with ONE person. I just think it's important for people to be around who can be more empathetic and understanding because they ARE the type; especially when you're dealing with something personal as fears and motivations.

Anyways, this is quite the ramble I've typed up, so I'll end this here.


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## PlacentaCake (Jun 14, 2012)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> One thing i've learned in my time at PerC, trying to set up a thread about mistypes is fruitless. It used to make my hair stand on ends seeing people i perceived as being typed all wrong. It can end either ugly, someone is offended regardless of information you can objectively give , it doesn't matter. People become super glued to their 4 letters, not everyone, although for those who do it's enough to create a small war.
> 
> Keep in mind that the average user here is 20 or less. Many aren't even developed on a psychological level ( 14-19 ) this produces lots of mistypes. These days i don't care or have the time and energy trying to explain what i see, how my thoughs should be relevant with people i believe are so far removed from reality in terms of cognitive functions and how they see themselves using them.
> 
> An open discussion won't be helpful, it will only leave room and opportunities for the mistypes to come along and give advice to the mistypes. Rinse and repeat. Any thread with the word _mistypes_ only ends in derails, stereotypes, generalizations, typist remarks and trolling. Infractions are at it's highest peek  so is popcorn.


I agree with what you say on this. I also think if we just let people go through their own self-discovery, that will be more helpful to them. Although, I agree, at times it can be confusing, but, confusion is bound to happen. The most optimal way for people that are confused are about their type to actually find their type is to continue though self-discovery. They will learn more about themselves each time they have an encounter with someone. They have time to think and feel on their own and will process what they are thinking and feeling about their type as they go through out their day. Getting too involved in others lives without asking them is, well, intrusive.

There is a general lack of trust of things like this because we don't know who is who, who knows what, who might be mean...etc. I could see this being hurtful to people. I think this would be extremely bad for the site. If I could give any advice to the owners of this site, I would say: don't allow this thread, because people who are mistyped are just on a journey of discovery and it is rude to interrupt that with a "gossip" type thread.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

I can see the point to both sides and how mistypes going around and people getting the idea that this is what that type is all about and so if I don't see myself in him/her then im probably another type. All I can say is that people are aware that because it is their own personal journey, then they should objectively look at themselves first before typing by comparison, manifestations of types, say type 6 can vary in big ways even though the motivation is the same, 2 types 6's may look very different from each other so the typing by comparison technique is gonna give someone a biased basis of type for themselves. Human beings are very multi-faceted creatures who expresses and think slightly differently to everyone else, we are all individual and therefore when exploring oneself should look at themselves exclusively, almost certainly in the beginning imo throughout the process. I wouldn't recommend relying on using others as a template to base personal typings on as this isn't always going to be a reliable method, if you can look at yourself objectively, then you are more likely to get a better more accurate typing.

Edit:
Because its not always possible to cover all bases and there are bound to be misjudgements and interpretations etc and therefore it just might be a good idea to remember that enneagram sources online can easily become contaminated that people should rely more on their own iniative and be skeptical(no pun intended) about what they read, even when something doesn't relate to you, small or big, then its not a defining trait you have and you needn't try and convert/adapt yourself in order to fit more comfortably into the category, I don't always relate to everything in even the most researched descriptions and therefore reject it and take on the bits that I do relate to. Of course, some people may not be completely honest with themselves and so some may not relate straight away to some of the traits of their type, like I don't really relate to the limelight seeking of a 3(although I let that diva out occasionally) the fact is that the potential for it is there but I don't 100% fit the neat box that says 3's are stage people, I just know that achieving is high on the list and with 6, im not always aware of my anxiety. So what im trying to add here is not to be too swayed by superficial aspects of types and be prepared to scrutinize them and go over descriptions with a somewhat thorough eye, afterall, this is your typing journey.
Anyway im gonna stop talking til I have some more to add :happy:


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

The only time mistypes bother me is when they perpetuate inaccurate information about their supposed typed. I've seen it happen all too many times. "Yeah, I'm a core 4 because I like art and have feelings" <-- *facepalm* 

The worst part is when these same mistypes just go around typing people. That makes my blood boil. Besides that, I have no problem whatsoever with mistyped people. I literally do not care. 

This mistyping thread would've been a good idea if people were more open minded about the possibility of them having gotten a type wrong. Most times, a mistype suggestion is considered as bullying and harassing.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> Any thread with the word _mistypes_ only ends in derails, stereotypes, generalizations, typist remarks and trolling. Infractions are at it's highest peek  so is popcorn.


I disagree with this. 
@Sneaky Bastard's Mistype thread is an exception to this theory right here on this forum.


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## Perhaps (Aug 20, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> The only time mistypes bother me is when they perpetuate inaccurate information about their supposed typed. I've seen it happen all too many times. "Yeah, I'm a core 4 because I like art and have feelings" <-- *facepalm*
> 
> The worst part is when these same mistypes just go around typing people. That makes my blood boil. Besides that, I have no problem whatsoever with mistyped people. I literally do not care.
> 
> This mistyping thread would've been a good idea if people were more open minded about the possibility of them having gotten a type wrong. Most times, a mistype suggestion is considered as bullying and harassing.


Precisely this. Some people are going to react badly to being told they're mistyped no matter how gently it's handled, because they don't want to be wrong, and - let's face it - some members are way too attached to their respective labels and subsequent biases to want to adjust their way of thinking about themselves and others. 

It's only really a problem because some of these mistypes have accumulated a lot of board credibility and insist on typing people, despite the fact that they're often lacking in a fundamental understanding of any of the theories used here.

A "voluntary" thread, unfortunately, would be comprised solely of the members who are secure enough in their own respective identities that being told they're mistyped won't be the end of the world-- which is largely what that thread in the INFJ subforum is. How effective it is at doing what it's designed for is highly subjective, of course, but I've noticed that those most likely to participate in this sort of thing are the least likely to actually be mistyped.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Action Potential said:


> Precisely this. Some people are going to react badly to being told they're mistyped no matter how gently it's handled, because they don't want to be wrong, and - let's face it - some members are way too attached to their respective labels and subsequent biases to want to adjust their way of thinking about themselves and others.


Agreed. It's extremely unhealthy when someone is so attached to a number, that they freak out at the possibility of being wrong about it. If someone was to suggest a different type for me, provided that their reasons were legitimate - not along the lines of "you're not sensitive enough to be a 4" - I would greatly appreciate it. After all, most people are here to learn about themselves and grow. Help should be accepted with gratitude, not hostility. 

As you say, the problem is that once you've gone around for a while seemingly convinced of being type A, people are going to be skeptic when you claim to be a different type - especially if you sounded extremely convinced of your previous (mis)type. Suddenly, people start taking your words with a grain of salt, especially if this happened over and over. For this and many other reasons, most people are reluctant to reconsider their types, and get defensive at the slightest suggestion.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

kaleidoscope said:


> ... I have no problem whatsoever with mistyped people. I literally do not care.


Yeah, same here. Some people get crazy about it. I feel like it's an individual journey. People will figure it out eventually. Whatever. 

If you're deciding what type you are based on how purported others of the same type act vs getting the fundamental info and how it applies to you, you're kind of defeating the point anyway, which is self-examination and personal revelation, not what group you fit in. 

There are fours I in many ways see eye-to-eye with but there are probably more who I don't gel with at all. (Lots of fours, honestly, drive me batshit.) I could say the same if I were to step into a room filled with any enneatype. Maybe some of those people are mistyped, but that doesn't mean that if every mistyped person were corrected it would change that. 

I think one of the biggest fallacies about personality typing is that just because someone has the same MBTI type, or enneatype, or Jungian functions, etc, that you will be soooo similar that you can finish each other's sentences when you've just met and blah blah. It just doesn't work like that. Yes, you may have certain things in common. But you aren't going to be clones. And it works the opposite. I've liked plenty of people and had much in common with those who are supposed to be so different than me and we're not supposed to get each other at all. But we do. I'm married to one of those "polar opposites", point in fact.

I'm not judging those who seek like-minded individuals in their enneatype, etc. I've done the same thing. But all it's going to do is confuse you when those of your type are different than you and mess up your self-typing.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@brainheart

Nicely said. I think the other way around is applicable as well, such as when people claim they're not a certain type because they know someone who is that type who happens to behave differently. Health level, wings, MBTI type, tritype and instinctual variants but most importantly *INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES* (I cannot stress this enough) can all contribute to two core 7s behaving differently. Comparison to others in terms of similarities, or differences is really not the right way to go about figuring out your type. 

PS: Typing by comparing to celebrities is by far the most ridiculous thing I've ever read about online. The moment I see celebrities being mentioned, I just move on.


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## Perhaps (Aug 20, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> Agreed. It's extremely unhealthy when someone is so attached to a number, that they freak out at the possibility of being wrong about it. If someone was to suggest a different type for me, provided that their reasons were legitimate - not along the lines of "you're not sensitive enough to be a 4" - I would greatly appreciate it. After all, most people are here to learn about themselves and grow. Help should be accepted with gratitude, not hostility.
> 
> As you say, the problem is that once you've gone around for a while seemingly convinced of being type A, people are going to be skeptic when you claim to be a different type - especially if you sounded extremely convinced of your previous (mis)type. Suddenly, people start taking your words with a grain of salt, especially if this happened over and over. For this and many other reasons, most people are reluctant to reconsider their types, and get defensive at the slightest suggestion.


Likewise, I'm always open to the suggestion that I may be another type, provided the person suggesting it has a reason beyond "well you're kind of a dick so you're probably a 5" (this has happened). Help _should_ be accepted with gratitude, but that presumes that everyone is here for the same reasons we are. This isn't a journey of personal exploration and enrichment, for some, but merely a social outlet. I would postulate that the suggestion of mistyping, to some members, would be akin to taking away the one thing they perceive they have that allows them to relate to others. As a type 7, an ENTP, an ILI, what-have-you, they're automatically part of a group. If they're someone who has had unfortunate luck bonding with people offline, and elsewhere on the internet, it stands to reason that they'll defend it with as much hostility and vitriol as they can muster. Likewise, these will be the people who will wield the concept of "mistyping" as some kind of weapon of social ostracism. 

This would definitely be problematic for a large number of individuals. There's also a sort of feedback loop that occurs with people actively discouraging more "established" members from reconsidering their type, because it does cast doubt upon the validity of their perception-- especially so if the individual happened to be among those who readily attempt to type others.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

kaleidoscope said:


> I think the other way around is applicable as well, such as when people claim they're not a certain type because they know someone who is that type who happens to behave differently. Health level, wings, MBTI type, tritype and instinctual variants but most importantly *INDIVIDUAL DIFFERENCES* (I cannot stress this enough) can all contribute to two core 7s behaving differently. Comparison to others in terms of similarities, or differences is really not the right way to go about figuring out your type.


Yes, all you say is huge. I also think age can make a big difference.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

The whole thing worked well in the INFJ section, but the thread wasn't always smooth sailing. It is a lil gem, though. But, then the INFJs are exceptionally good at mediating. One thing I realized, after a particularly insulting typing experience here, was that two ways of going about addressing mistyping outside of type me thread is respectful:

- Sending a PM asking the person if they're open to an alternate suggestion for their typing and following discussion. If they're enthusiastic, proceed and continue as long as they're willing and open. Respect their boundaries, and know when to end it. 
I have helped countless people with their types in PM. I am not currently active in public typing, but I am in conversation with a few people even right now. It works very well for some.

-If you really think someone is mistyped and want to mention it on a thread, just ask -again respectfully- if they're open to some feedback on their type. Ask them if they'd prefer it via VM/PM. 

Some people really make fools of themselves by breaking forum rules and behaving rather ridiculously, so I understand why one might be tempted to tell them upfront that they need to stop being obnoxious. But, 99.999% of the people do not fall in this category and should be treated with more respect. I am especially soft on newcomers to the forum and/or the Enneagram. 


I don't like to see thread derails over calling mistypes. I may criticize a mistyped person's perceptions and lack of knowledge about the type they're discussing, but as much as possible, I try not to outright call someone out. Back when I was typed as an 8, a couple of people really got ridiculously pissy and defensive because of my typing. Mind you, I had never hit them below the belt or provoked them in any way. I was chased around by a bunch of fools for a couple of months, including someone getting butthurt on perc chat all because I typed as an 8. Some repeatedly asked me to "prove my type" to them, and I ignored them even found the whole shebang funny. But 3 months in, it started to become extremely irritating. So, I find that a boundary violation. No one wants to be chased around and belittled, without any provocation on their end, over a typing. *

A few ground rules might make this thread work (best included in the OP):*

a) Only offer your insights when solicited by a member. 

b) If you have any kind of pre existing conflict with a member, don't use the thread as a platform to get things off your chest. Maintain respectful distance.

c) If the member is new to the forum or you're unfamiliar with them, DO encourage them to make use of one our Enneagram questionnaires to type themselves because you can't get a full on type assessment on this thread ONLY pointers.

d) Don't coerce anyone into accepting your type suggestion. They are free to leave the discussion as they choose. Respect that. 

e) If you feel pushed, please let people know so they can back away. This forum is actually a lot healthier than most I've seen or know of. Besides, a non-abusive person taking time out to help you would not want to be accused of harassment without even knowing they have accidentally made you feel hurt/shamed or whatever. It is your responsibility to communicate how you're feeling. It's the other person's responsibility to treat you with respect and compassion, as it is a sensitive process even on an informal thread. 

f) If you have any issues or concerns, the administration, especially Promethea who feels strongly about preventing typing harassment would be more than glad to help. I have had extended discussions on the subject, with her, and anyone here should feel comfortable approaching her on this issue. 

Out of curiosity, if anyone wants, feel free to comment on any aspect of my tritype either here, via VM or PM.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

double post


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

I would think that I would rather nicely PM somebody first and ask if I could mention them publicly in a thread like this so as to get other perspectives and such.  I don't see anything wrong with doing that. 

I know that the Enneagram is a personal thing and many people are on a journey of _self_-discovery, but what has self-discovery been without the occasional helpful words or suggestions from others? There are people who would welcome this sort of thing. 

I definitely agree with @zallla. Perhaps some might like to bring their concerns about their type here as opposed to creating more and more Type Me threads. Or maybe they just have a tiny, nagging doubt and don't want to make a huge deal about it.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Action Potential said:


> Precisely this. Some people are going to react badly to being told they're mistyped no matter how gently it's handled, because they don't want to be wrong, and - let's face it - some members are way too attached to their respective labels and subsequent biases to want to adjust their way of thinking about themselves and others.





kaleidoscope said:


> Agreed. It's extremely unhealthy when someone is so attached to a number, that they freak out at the possibility of being wrong about it. If someone was to suggest a different type for me, provided that their reasons were legitimate - not along the lines of "you're not sensitive enough to be a 4" - I would greatly appreciate it. After all, most people are here to learn about themselves and grow. Help should be accepted with gratitude, not hostility.


I could share my personal experience about this subject... I came here thinking I was INFP Four. Well, I wasn't really healthy, my self-esteem was the lowest ever and I was not really self-aware and focused. I really felt like INFP Four. Rather soon I was told I might actually be a Six. It was done nicely and by several people. I had never seriously considered being a Six by myself and probably wouldn't have without people suggesting it. Anyway, I considered it and even started to think of being a Six. But eventually I started to question things, others, the theory and myself big time and kept changing my type being satisfied with none of them and feeling I don't fit, I don't fit. At that point people suggested, again, that I was a core Six. I was already aware of the possibility of it but still felt I couldn't recognize it as a core type. 

I tried to keep my mind open about everything (including type Six) but wanted to explore all the possibilities. It had to be on my terms, I couldn't accept a type just based on others' feedback, I had to recognize it by myself too. *And that's the crucial part in helping someone, that's all that can be done. Show other possibilities, help to get rid of the false (and unhealthy) beliefs. And that's what I wish to see here. Some people seem so unaware of their behavior that it makes me think it would be a win-win situation to help them realize it.*

Eventually it became very clear and easy for me too to know my core type and I am thankful for everyone helping me get it. There were times when I felt pushed. That made me feel I am not allowed to make my own decisions and it was annoying. But if I once had any resentment because of that, I don't have it anymore. All in all, the process was long, tricky, extremely rewarding and extremely beneficial. Many other things happened in my life too but whatever the reasons, I am feeling better than ever. I wish all the others who are still struggling could have that, healthy self-esteem and self-image.




Boss said:


> *
> A few ground rules might make this thread work (best included in the OP):*
> 
> a) Only offer your insights when solicited by a member.
> ...


Agreed, well put.



Boss said:


> Out of curiosity, if anyone wants, feel free to comment on any aspect of my tritype either here, via VM or PM.


Uuh, advertising... I had actually thought to add such a line to my signature! Hmm, for what it's worth, I find it a little surprising that you're social instinct _last_. You seem to be aware of people here and at times your expressions of certain kind of consideration and warmth seem social instinct to me. But perhaps your admirable awareness of people here is due to the fact that your journey has been a lot longer than mine, you have had your time. And one instinct being last does not mean it couldn't exist. In addition, you seem to be hard on yourself like I could imagine 1-fixers to be. You seem core Three to me but I could imagine you having one super ego in your tritype too. I'm not saying I couldn't imagine you having 8-fix. Sometimes I think you like to seem tougher than you really are 

Anyway, also I am willing to get feedback. Really, please tell me if you have any comments on my tritype, subtypes or cognitive functions and especially if you think I might be unaware of those. Anyone thinking I'm _not_ a core Six?




Julia Bell said:


> I would think that I would rather nicely PM somebody first and ask if I could mention them publicly in a thread like this so as to get other perspectives and such.  I don't see anything wrong with doing that.
> 
> I know that the Enneagram is a personal thing and many people are on a journey of _self_-discovery, but what has self-discovery been without the occasional helpful words or suggestions from others? There are people who would welcome this sort of thing.
> 
> I definitely agree with @_zallla_. Perhaps some might like to bring their concerns about their type here as opposed to creating more and more Type Me threads. Or maybe they just have a tiny, nagging doubt and don't want to make a huge deal about it.


Thanks! You just said it all much better :happy:


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

zallla said:


> Uuh, advertising... I had actually thought to add such a line to my signature! Hmm, for what it's worth, I find it a little surprising that you're social instinct _last_. You seem to be aware of people here and at times your expressions of certain kind of consideration and warmth seem social instinct to me. But perhaps your admirable awareness of people here is due to the fact that your journey has been a lot longer than mine, you have had your time. And one instinct being last does not mean it couldn't exist. In addition, you seem to be hard on yourself like I could imagine 1-fixers to be. You seem core Three to me but I could imagine you having one super ego in your tritype too. I'm not saying I couldn't imagine you having 8-fix. Sometimes I think you like to seem tougher than you really are
> 
> Anyway, also I am willing to get feedback. Really, please tell me if you have any comments on my tritype, subtypes or cognitive functions and especially if you think I might be unaware of those. Anyone thinking I'm _not_ a core Six?


I am pretty sure you are a core six. 
As for the rest, I have no interest in 'advertising'. Though, you have always been very good at advertising your plight during your typing struggle through your sigs. I sure hope it was therapeutic for you. I am curious if anyone has any comments on my type as I have been active in typing myself. And, it's fun to be on the other side of the deal for a change. 

By long journey if you mean typing journey, then my journey has been a lot shorter than yours as I have only considered two types for my core. It didn't take me long to settle on three after reading Maitri (more like 15 minutes). I haven't had more time age wise lofl; I have a wealth of experiences most people lack. And, I have been studying the Enneagram longer and in-depth.

Oh, I am the least 'hard on myself' person in terms of self-criticism. It's among the reasons why I am not fully sold on the 1 fix, but it's a strong contender as you suggest. I am a hard taskmaster, and I am very professional and hardworking. In that sense, I can drive myself to exhaustion but other than that not really.
And lolol @ the 'tougher than you really are' comment. :laughing: I have to work to tone down the so-called 'toughness' all the time. It often seems like you try to appear tougher than you truly feel inside (the 6 sx can sometimes do this [read Naranjo's description]), and so you interpret a naturally harsher demeanour as being a similar conscious effort to appear tough. People bitch and tattle about my 'toughness' though I have attempted to blunt its expression for pragmatic reasons for a long time, but then people are spineless lil fuckers sometimes, so it's actually pretty funny to watch their childish shenanigans. Besides, an 8 fix has nothing to do with toughness. A 1 fixer can be as tough as an 8 fixer and then some. And, you're often very indirect and overly diplomatic and ingratiating. It's possible that you have a 9 fix. 

P.S. I forgot to comment on the instincts. I know that I come across as so/sx. I considered myself so/sx initially. After researching further, I have realized that my primary drive as far as instincts go align with sp. I used to think So first was the most charming, leadership oriented stacking so I wasn't too overjoyed with realizing I wasn't So first. The instincts are pretty hard to grasp, imo.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Oh, one thing I'd like to say too... I think many of the mistypes I've seen here have eventually recognized the core of type Six. I think it's very easy for Sixes to be mistyped. It's the thing in Sixes, not be aware of the anxiety and uncertainty. How can you relate to something you are not well aware of? It's absurd to assume it could be done very easily or especially after someone suggesting it.

The uncertainty many Sixes have causes certain challenges. It made at least me feel rootless. I felt there was nothing I could trust. I didn't trust others saying they know, I even questioned the whole theory. I didn't trust even myself. And all that makes it so easy to keep changing mind and types more often you change your clothes.

The reactivity of Sixes can also cause certain challenges. One of those who helped me the most said once that my ego is fighting fiercely because the realization of being a Six was so close. That was a wonderful observation and very well said. Whenever something touches the most sensitive spots in me, I'm the most reactive. When the realization of being a Six came close enough, I reacted. And someone like that is not easy one to cope with or help. I appreciated the help but sometimes I reacted without even noticing it. The process can be tough. Really noticing and recognizing all the insecurity, my need for reassurance, my anxiety and fears... It was like opening a tiny and ugly box I had tried to forget, a box where the devil and its henchmen lived waiting for me to release them and then see me living my life like I was watching the worst (or best) horror movie ever.


What I'm trying to say is that Sixes are easily mistyped but not always the easiest ones to help to realize their core type. Whenever you spot a possible Six, treat carefully, it just might explode :kitteh: Just my personal observations :kitteh: Did I already say I love Sixes?


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

> Oh, one thing I'd like to say too... I think many of the mistypes I've seen here have eventually recognized the core of type Six. I think it's very easy for Sixes to be mistyped. It's the thing in Sixes, not be aware of the anxiety and uncertainty. How can you relate to something you are not well aware of? It's absurd to assume it could be done very easily or especially after someone suggesting it.


Very interesting and ironic observation, especially from you @_zallla_. You expressed a lot of support for the supposed "Everyone is a 6 until proven otherwise" trend on that thread which implied that people were being baselessly typed as 6s in large numbers. Personally, I have only typed 4 self typed 4s as 6s (3 now self type as 6, including yourself) in the past 6 months and 1 self typed 8 as a 6. That's hardly a 'trend'. So, from the large number of people I have helped with typing, I don't personally see that most mistypes turn out to be 6s. It may be easy for a 6 to mistype in the absence of good information, but ease of mistyping does not necessarily result in greater frequency of 6s mistyping. If an informal poll were set up, I am pretty sure we'd have a mixed bag of responses. But, what I do see (something RH have also observed in their research) is that 6s often mistype as 4s and 8s. It doesn't follow from this, however, that they comprise the majority of the apparently mistyped forum population.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

This thread is a bit...um ironic, it seems. Not the thread in and of itsself, but the person who posted it.




zallla, if I recall correctly, when you were originally typed as 6 a few months ago, you got super butthurt about it and complained to the witch hunting brigade. And when that "everyone is a 6 until proven guilty" thread was posted, you were one of the first people to hop on board the "don't question everyone type or call them a 6" bandwagon. Then over the past few weeks, I've stumbled across a few comments from you on the forum where you still complaining about people questioning your type and calling you a 6. Not to mention the signatures you had about "live and let live" etc etc. 


So i dont under stay why its okay to question another person's type publicly on your thread created specifically for that purpose.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

@Boss, I meant that you have been here longer than me, that was the journey I was referring to. 



> It often seems like you try to appear tougher than you truly feel inside (the 6 sx can sometimes do this [read Naranjo's description]), and so you interpret a naturally harsher demeanour as being a similar conscious effort to appear tough.


Interesting, you're not the first who says that to me. I must pay more attention to that to investigate it further. I could see it being a Six thing though. Why not sx Six but I would not say sp and so Six could not do it too.




> It's possible that you have a 9 fix.


I agree, not because anything is possible in theory but because it seems to fit better than 1w2. @Sneaky Bastard knew ages ago that I had the same tritype she has 



> The instincts are pretty hard to grasp, imo.


I agree. Every time I've thought I know my stacking, I notice something that doesn't seem to fit and question the whole theory.




Boss said:


> Very interesting and ironic observation, especially from you @_zallla_. You expressed a lot of support for the supposed "Everyone is a 6 until proven otherwise" trend on that thread which implied that people were being baselessly typed as 6s in large numbers.


One of the reasons why I wanted to share it. And to some extent I disagree, for example I think that the members who have had the biggest struggles before "final" decision with typing tend to be more likely core Sixes than some other type. I wish I could come up with a good solution.



Chipps said:


> This thread is a bit...um ironic, it seems. Not the thread in and of itsself, but the person who posted it.


I only wished to have a thread to explore the mistype issue and I don't think that's ironic unless someone intentionally makes it ironic. I think that having been mistyped by myself has given me insight and experience on this issue.



> zallla, if I recall correctly, when you were originally typed as 6 a few months ago, you got super butthurt about it and complained to the witch hunting brigade. And when that "everyone is a 6 until proven guilty" thread was posted, you were one of the first people to hop on board the "don't question everyone type or call them a 6" bandwagon.


The only thing that really hurt me happened through PMs. 98 % of the replies I got when I was trying to solve my type here were that not at all hurtful. Like I said previously, certain people pushing me were not 100 % respectful but otherwise I don't complain about the treatment I got 



> Then over the past few weeks, I've stumbled across a few comments from you on the forum where you still complaining about people questioning your type and calling you a 6.


I don't know what you are talking about. For some time now I've had the label of Six and very little confusion about it. I don't know what you have read but I assume it was not written over the past few weeks..? And like I said, the pushing was not 100 % respectful and I think my reaction to it was understandable. I think it's fine to tell your opinion but pushing is no longer respectful and fine.



> Not to mention the signatures you had about "live and let live" etc etc.


I had many signatures that were not personal or based on personal experience but to express my opinion about stereotypes and people having ugly attitudes towards certain types. 




> So i dont under stay why its okay to question another person's type publicly on your thread created specifically for that purpose.


I don't understand what you don't understand. I'm again repeating myself but like I said, in the beginning it was very nicely done when people told their opinions of me possibly being a Six. Only later when I started to question it some people started to push me and then it was not respectful anymore. I have nothing against people expressing their opinions if their intentions are good, forcing and depreciating is a completely different thing though.


I'd like to avoid the off topic theme about me as a person here, it seems rather vile, spiteful and unreasonable. If someone has something else _personal_ to say to me, about me or my typing process, feel free to write PMs because I'm curious.


*To get back to the actual topic here...* Thus far it seems that what could be interesting, useful and a lot of fun might be a thread where people could express their doubts of their typing


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@_zallla_

Your post above quotes me, as well. I don't think I launched any personal attacks at you. Clearly, I was commenting on your type ( you explicitly asked for input), your insights on my typing journey and the mistyping deal which is quite on topic. I don't know what exactly you have found so "vile" and spiteful about my responses here. That's quite the colourful accusation lol. As for your typing thread, if you felt people were pushy, it would've been best to let them know that directly or via forum staff. People can't read your mind, especially when they think they're being respectful and haven't crossed any visible emotional/psychological boundaries and when the typee repeatedly *asks* for forthrightness. Everyone has some triggers, and unless communicated, no one can just read your mind on these. It's hard enough irl. This is just the internet. 

Everyone has the responsibility to set boundaries on typing threads and communicate. If after telling people they're being pushy, they continue, then it's intentionally disrespectful and harassing. As for PMs, that sucks. If it happens in future, report them. It's the most honest and straightforward way of dealing with this stuff.

P.S. Yes, the 9 fix makes far more sense than 1w2. 1w2 fixed Sixes are far more assertive and even rigid when it comes to their convictions. You seem far more easy going.

P.P.S. Ok @ explaining the journey point. Also, 6s take longer to type correctly. But, that may or may not be correlated with 6s forming a large proportion of the apparent mistypes here.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Well, as I always say (and several around here always imply or have perhaps said before on occasions I cannot remember), it's best not to personalize this stuff before you've even had the time to explore it (you're just setting yourself up for frustration) - don't assume you know more than it, assume it knows more than you (amazing that this is an issue in those areas of that forum at all, really). That's all I have to say of any value now - my tolerence is very thin when it comes to enneagram drama, so I usually stay out of it (MBTI drama I have more sympathy for, since the system is deceptively deep and complex and very often poorly explained in most corners of the internet - I've wrestled with the MBTI from the time I discovered it - the enneagram is not so communicationally ambiguous that people should be re-inventing the wheel vicariously through manipulating other people). Also, when it comes to people giving advice on the enneagram, I recommend keeping responses straightforward - I'm okay with people challenging each others' types, but at least show confidence in your own ideas rather than writing something long-winded that showcases how desperate you are to sway people to your way of thinking. I think there's a lot of potential for good discussion there (and there often is very good discussion from various people there with great insights), but that tends to get squelched by people turning the enneagram into a stereotype machine (I think the MBTI/Cognitive functions forum is getting better with this after having been here for over a year). I frankly don't think much can really change there without a more objective promotion of the enneagram, which essentially comes down to problems with the information presented there (or lazy interpretations of it), I've noticed. Between the two systems, Jung/MBTI is a lot harder to grasp than the enneagram in terms of principles - the principles don't really matter that much in understanding the complexity of enneagram types (they don't really verify the existence of the types on a persona level), unlike JCF/Jung/MBTI types (although contrary to popular misconceptions, not usually on a persona level), so I'm not sure why there's so much argumentation warfare in those corners (other than people are having most of the projection/insecurity issues already addressed by posts in this thread).


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@_JungyesMBTIno_

It seems like a lot of Enneagram drama stems from the fact that prying away patterns of cognitive distortions, neuroses and fears is such a deeply personal process. Letting a complete stranger into your scarred inner word can be a disconcerting experience. It's why everyone involved needs to really demarcate their boundaries, maintain objective distance and certain standards of respect whether it's someone offering assistance or seeking it. There's a huge lack of direct and mature communication around these parts. 

It's why a Mistype thread goes to dust in an Enneagram section; whereas, a similar "What's the Real Type?" thread in the General Chat section is doing rather well. People are being linked to resources. A few newcomers have made type me threads after posting there briefly. Nobody wants to get embroiled in this drama. There's a lot of good that can be extracted from solid theoretical discussions. When you bring the personal onto the scene, people start to feel like their toes are being stepped on. It goes downhill from there.

Six months to a year ago, people were peddling half-assed theories based on celebrity videos and vibes. A few threads go off track, but objective promotion of the Enneagram has taken place here. I can attest to that much. I am glad to see some people actually discussing authors, quoting them where appropriate instead of ad libbing nonsense majority of the time. We still need improvements here, but things have and are moving in the right direction.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> It seems like a lot of Enneagram drama stems from the fact that prying away patterns of cognitive distortions, neuroses and fears is such a deeply personal process.


Yes (I'm a bit sheltered in this department I think with my track record of enneagram discussions by far). Unfortunately, unlike MBTI, it seems like there are issues finding boundaries where a person's comfort zone can be established before launching into typing quests. The mildly creepy thing about this to me is, I don't know why that is (and it's so far from my personal experiences with this stuff, that I feel like I'm missing something big-time in terms of the system, let alone, something might as well be missing, so I get rather fearful about taking part in discussions there in case someone gets violated). It's strange (but not unexpected) how much impact experiences seem to hold in ennea typing for different people in a system that doesn't bring real world examples and images into the picture that much. I do fully understand the need to sometimes grip to stereotypes with this stuff when in the exploration process (I've definitely been there with the wings and the idea of having wings, which used to seem like it might limit my individuality too much), since this stuff is so hard to establish in principle, but at the same time, isn't a horoscope (not vague). The connection this stuff might have to the issues you mentioned I can definitely wrap my mind around.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Sometimes I wonder: Is the enneagram more real to people than MBTI, or is MBTI more real to people than the enneagram? It seems like people find the enneagram more real (I think I'm one of the few people who finds stuff in the realm of MBTI more real, even though they're both theoretical constructs). Anyhow, I can see where people then would feel threatened by people through the internet who act like they know more about them than they do, especially on the persona level, which this stuff gets into to a greater extent than MBTI. People are often searching for the stereotypes in MBTI as evidenced by their discussions - in the enneagram, the stereotypes seem to already be there for most (I'm guessing everyone read stereotypes into the types when they first discovered this stuff).


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@JungyesMBTIno
I think it's just more "personal", if that makes sense.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Sometimes I wonder: Is the enneagram more real to people than MBTI, or is MBTI more real to people than the enneagram? It seems like people find the enneagram more real


Personally I find the Enneagram to be more _accurate_, or perhaps _telling_, of a person. This isn't to say that every type 7 will exhibit all characteristics we attribute to the type, but I find that if I understand the why then I can better figure out how to proceed. MBTI has never really told me the why, just the how, which is relatively pointless for me. Sometimes it has helped, like I have an easier time understanding why Si users or Ti/Fe users find me weird and how to adjust myself for them a bit, but overall it's just not as "good."

I also find the MBTI "community" even more problematic with stereotypes than the Enneagram... Which is hard to believe, I know, but there it is. If it were focused more on CFs and less on letters, it'd probably be a lot more useful. (Even PerC's CF subforum often wanders into letter territory, so that's not even a haven.)

----
By the way... If anyone would like to comment on my type(s), feel free xD


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

I'll admit that I made the mistake of seriously personalizing my Enneagram type. Most people agree I'm a 7 but there's still potential for other types in there. All I can say is to always be open for different suggestions, 'cause they might be likely.
@JungyesMBTIno I think Enneagram feels way more real. Probably because it digs deep to the WHY instead of the HOW.


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## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

I think sometimes other people can be better at objectively typing you correctly (note: only sometimes!). The final decision is obviously up to you, but I consider it akin to workshopping an essay or story. People notice flaws that you might not see so getting outside input is valuable. I did the questionnaire and, useful as it is for starting out, it's easy enough to be biased while answering questions if you know anything at all about enneagram. Going by regular posts seems like a good way to go.

I don't have many posts yet but I welcome any input anywhere (Maybe I should put that in my sig...), any time so long as it isn't taken as a personal attack if I disagree. As long as you're not typing based on pure stereotypes I'd never reject thoughtful input. If you just like arguing, let's argue about something different.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Sometimes I wonder: Is the enneagram more real to people than MBTI, or is MBTI more real to people than the enneagram? It seems like people find the enneagram more real (I think I'm one of the few people who finds stuff in the realm of MBTI more real, even though they're both theoretical constructs).


This is a great question. I consider both "real" on their respective levels: very generally, cognitive functions more in the realm of thought, Enneagram more in the realm of intention. I picture them like a venn diagram, they intersect to some degree but do not perfectly cover the same areas; human purpose is multifaceted and is influenced by both dynamics.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Sometimes I wonder: Is the enneagram more real to people than MBTI, or is MBTI more real to people than the enneagram? It seems like people find the enneagram more real (I think I'm one of the few people who finds stuff in the realm of MBTI more real, even though they're both theoretical constructs). Anyhow, I can see where people then would feel threatened by people through the internet who act like they know more about them than they do, especially on the persona level, which this stuff gets into to a greater extent than MBTI. People are often searching for the stereotypes in MBTI as evidenced by their discussions - in the enneagram, the stereotypes seem to already be there for most (I'm guessing everyone read stereotypes into the types when they first discovered this stuff).


I found relatively equal merit in both Enneagrams as well as JCF ... They both explain certain parts very well, while leaving some parts un-explained. The responsibility of the individual is to learn to shave off the nurtured and rationalized aspects of their own behaviour and separate them from the inherent ones and find repeating patterns of behaviour as opposed to focusing on specific examples. 

MBTI/JCF and Enneagrams basically explain the "typical" but the "typical" is never enough - as there's always some parts not fully explainable. 

One of the core problems with JCF however is the descriptions of the inferior functions. I've noticed that people who have somewhat non-typical Enneagram/JCF have more trouble relating to existing descriptions of Inferior functions [and even other functions], each of which are heavily skewed towards the _most typical_ Enneagram Type at healthy, average and unhealthy levels. 

They tend to lose heart in that particular type for themselves and move on to something else. It wasn't until I was well-versed in both that I was able to complete the complex puzzle of my personality type - and even then there are still certain behaviours and motivations that remain relatively unexplained. 

You combine as much information as you can glean from as many resources as you can and come to the answer that applies to you best while being honest with yourself and trusting your own judgement. 

Personally, I wasn't "satisfied" till I had taken apart every bit of every one of my behaviours and past experiences on my own and studied all of JCF, MBTI and Enneagrams in tandem before being able to reach a satisfactory conclusion. Also, conversations with people of similar types does help to the degree where their knowledge is even/impartial and well interpreted as well.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Lotan

This is just based on some of your posts that I have come across, so take it with a grain of salt. Preferably, I'd like to have a look at your questionnaire, though I do agree that the most unbiased questionnaires tend to come from people that have lil to no knowledge of the Enneagram. Anyway, I could see you leading with either 3 or cp6, and your gut fix is likely either 8 or 1. 

For a start, have a look at the 3, 6 and 8 descriptions here:
1. Typewatch Enneagram: Typewatch Enneagram Type Descriptions
2. the enneagram ...info from the underground


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

I'll put my thoughts in:

I personally am open to having my core type, fixes, instincts, and MBTI questioned (*hear that guys?*). I try to treat myself as a puzzle to which there may be many solutions. Some of my most important insights here have come from others' observations of my posts, for instance, when SoM asked if I were an Fi-user. He was wrong, but it was a good call nonetheless as it led me to discover I was not actually an ISTP. And for the first time I took the MB seriously!

I've always felt that the members of this forum were decent and respectful, and many of them have questioned parts of my personality based on sane and sensible rationale. I greatly appreciate such feedback, public or private; indeed, it's part of the reason I joined PerC. Perhaps I am lucky for never having been embroiled in a PM war. Maybe I'm just being ridiculously naive. I don't know. But I've never had any problems here and have never once felt "hunted down" or pressured to accept anything.

I'm not saying others who have gotten this sense are wrong--I know there's a sentiment going around that "6s are the most common type, and you are therefore probably a 6 in denial". I'm not going to bring up my own thoughts on that here, but suffice to say, if others perceive shit being passed around, I'll take their word for it. I do not yet have any complaints of personal harassment, however.

It's possible that I feel this way because I'm probably a good decade older than many on this site, and have acquired significant life experience in different parts of the world. I'm not sure what I'd have been like if I'd joined this message board in high school. All I can say to that is, there's room for growth--for _all_ of us. Thankfully, that's exactly what this website is for.

@_zallla_ I know you're on your own personal quest of self-discovery, and I've watched you make considerable progress through your participation here. It's not been an easy journey. Whatever others have said about the irony of you creating this post, I thank you for doing it. It's a something that should probably be addressed, although I think the best bet for folks who are questioning is simply to go to the "what's my type" forum and ask there.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Sometimes I wonder: Is the enneagram more real to people than MBTI, or is MBTI more real to people than the enneagram? It seems like people find the enneagram more real (I think I'm one of the few people who finds stuff in the realm of MBTI more real, even though they're both theoretical constructs). Anyhow, I can see where people then would feel threatened by people through the internet who act like they know more about them than they do, especially on the persona level, which this stuff gets into to a greater extent than MBTI. People are often searching for the stereotypes in MBTI as evidenced by their discussions - in the enneagram, the stereotypes seem to already be there for most (I'm guessing everyone read stereotypes into the types when they first discovered this stuff).


I'm one of the ones whose heart-fix actually feels more "real" than her core type. I have to struggle to see good percentages of it in myself. But my emotive issues are all around type 4.

Until I found my real MB type, I _did_ think MBTI was fairly useless. But since then, I've really gotten interested in cognitive functions...it explains a lot about the way my brain works, and since I live in my head, it _does _seem very real to me. It's interesting trying to determine which thing I do is a 6-impulse, which is instinctual, and which is linked to being an ENTP.

I believe the enneagram and cognitive functions are both different ways the brain works, and each seems to capture a different part of our modus operandi. I'm personally beginning to favor MBTI, although I still like hanging around the enneagram forums better .


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## Sollertis (Aug 2, 2012)

I will never understand getting offended when someone seriously thinks you've been mistyped. presumably the whole point of the MBTI and other type theories is to help people know themselves better, so if one has been mistyped, how does it help them to emotionally cling to a possibly incorrect image of themselves?


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Im not bothered if people think Im a different type (Although Im intensely annoyed when they suggested im "pretending" to be a type) and am fine if they want to comment on my type. 

However, it should be done according to objective standards. It should be done by noting the theory and by looking at how people fit into it based on the info _they _provide. It's not appropriate for someone to say "I think youre X type because you feel like this" if that person completely disagrees thats what they are like.

"You give me an X vibe" is good because it provokes discussion of what types look like and what someones type might he, but "YOU ARE X TYPE BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ARE" is never appropriate.


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## Sollertis (Aug 2, 2012)

Diphenhydramine said:


> Im not bothered if people think Im a different type (Although Im intensely annoyed when they suggested im "pretending" to be a type) and am fine if they want to comment on my type.
> 
> However, it should be done according to objective standards. It should be done by noting the theory and by looking at how people fit into it based on the info _they _provide. It's not appropriate for someone to say "I think youre X type because you feel like this" if that person completely disagrees thats what they are like.
> 
> "You give me an X vibe" is good because it provokes discussion of what types look like and what someones type might he, but "YOU ARE X TYPE BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ARE" is never appropriate.


This is off topic, but do you change your damn avatar like you change your socks? I constantly see your posts and it always takes me a while to realize who it is.


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## Subtle Murder (May 19, 2012)

Cool, I may as well put my hand up and say: help?! 

I don't mind if anyone has any suggestions as to what my Core type or TriType might be, provided they want to discuss this via PM. I'm not interested in hearing _opinions_, per se (i.e. "you're a total [number] because blah blah blah..."). But a nice, well-thought discussion as to why I _might_ be a certain type would be cool.  At this point, I have no flaming clue which is what and what is where. @Nonconsensus has already contacted me via VM to discuss this and try and hash it out, but I'm open to other people's input.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

holyrockthrower said:


> I personally am open to having my core type, fixes, instincts, and MBTI questioned (*hear that guys?*). I try to treat myself as a puzzle to which there may be many solutions.


Throwie, I respect your attitude and totally get your puzzle and multiple solutions thinking (I do that too)! I could easily imagine other possibilities for you too but for some reason you seem a core Six to me 




holyrockthrower said:


> I know there's a sentiment going around that "6s are the most common type, and you are therefore probably a 6 in denial".


Yeah, that's what I don't like. I think it's more common for Sixes to be struggling big time with their typing but I never thought or meant that one should assume others being core Sixes unless proven otherwise. That would be rather ridiculous. So, people, feel free to express your insecurities, at least I won't type you as core Sixes just based on that xD Frankly, it takes a little more than that to be one of us.




> @_zallla_ I know you're on your own personal quest of self-discovery, and I've watched you make considerable progress through your participation here. It's not been an easy journey. Whatever others have said about the irony of you creating this post, I thank you for doing it. It's a something that should probably be addressed, although I think the best bet for folks who are questioning is simply to go to the "what's my type" forum and ask there.


Thanks! I don't actually mind that it wasn't easy. If it had been easy, it would not have been this rewarding  I'm rather pleased now though, pleased to actually know I know.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

*Addressing mistyping, typing etiquette and more*

@_holyrockthrower_

This post is directed at a general audience, as well. 

Thanks for a well thought out post. One change that people who have formed opinions about typing 'trends' have failed to acknowledge is that major changes have taken place on the forum since the creation of the questionnaire. Several more E-informed members, including myself,* have repeatedly debunked the ridiculous idea that 6 is the most common type, therefore everyone asking for typing help (esp. self typed 4s, 5s and 8s [the so called rare types lol]) is a 6. *

As someone who was trolled around the forum for a few months lol and treated poorly when requesting typing assistance *when I was new to the forum, I do NOT take harassment of any kind or ridiculous hasty claims about someone's type based on inane unverifiable assumptions, lightly at all.* I understand how disrespectful it can be, especially when you're new to the forum environment and to the Enneagram. Any Tom, Harry or whoever can walk in and start shoving negative stereotypes and other atheoretical nonsense down your throat, make personal assumptions about you, pathologize you and so on, without once sharing useful information adequately. This is not how typing or any kind of Enneagram discussion should take place. It's shoddy, juvenile and unacceptable. Also, around this time, a lot of typings were done on the basis of vibes, avatars, comparing a person with other posters (LOL) and other such 'methods'. 

A lot of work has been done to this end. When the "everyone is a type 6 until proven otherwise" thread was posted, with some good points, I was curious about the extent of 6 typings. I went through threads I (and later some other typers had participated in) in since December 2011. Between December-May 31st, I have personally only typed 4 self typed fours as sixes (3 of whom currently self type as Six) and 1 self-typed 8 as a 6 as I mentioned earlier.

Overall, by that time, no more than five to six self typed 4s had been typed as Sixes by active typers. About three had come to the conclusion they were a 6 on their very threads, and these threads had gone well. One of these self typed 4s was suggested a core 7 typing, and the thread went very well. If one or two of these threads did not go as well as the typee would have liked, it is unfortunate. But, it's insufficient evidence for a E-forum-wide persecutory *trend* based on the idea that everyone is 6 until proven otherwise. 

_ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

_That said, what is important is that if even One person has felt harassed, it's problematic. While I am optimistic about the changes that have taken place, I don't wish to undermine the concerns of those few that have felt mistreated. The best solution to this is educating the typees on their rights (against harassment) and their responsibilities (communication directly, via staff etc.) The key is that typees let the typer know how they're feeling, the second they feel pressured. And, communication really is important. It's the typee's responsibility and the typer's responsibility to hold their ends of the deal.


As I am addressing the typee's concerns,* I must briefly mention that typers also get mistreated, disrespected and, yes, stalked around the forum and in PM. *Mistreatment of typers is far less pervasive, but it takes place and so it's a concern that needs to be addressed. *So, we must keep in mind that respect goes both ways.* A few typees have tended to be highly disrespectful, and in these cases, a typer has every right to assert their boundaries as they see appropriate, as long as no forum rules are being violated. The same applies to a typee who feels like a typer has overstepped their bounds.

Overall, the more the typee knows about the options available to them about how to interact with typers when feeling hurt, the more empowered they get to direct the course of their threads. This is especially important for typees that have difficulties with conflict. *Some options include:*

1. directly telling the typer that one is feeling pressured/hurt. this sets the boundary, so the typer can step back.
2. if the typee isn't comfortable with 1. at the time, they can communicate this via staff.
3. If the typee does not respect your boundary after you tell them how you feel, please contact the administration further. This could very well count as an instance of harassment. 

Promethea is especially understanding in these matters. There will be no "conflict", no "insults" involved in directly communicating with an understanding staff member. I assure you that this will be a peaceful, respectful process for the typee. A mod/admin can issue an informal PM to the typer asking them to back away, or they can issue an informal warning, a separation agreement and so on per their discretion. Rest assured, the staff will not dismiss or minimize your concerns. 

So, Please don't feel disempowered. Take control of the process. * You can use your voice in peaceful ways to make the process comfortable and more effective.* Typers here, for the most part, are wonderful. They'd be happy to accommodate your feelings. Both typers and typees need to show respect, communicate well and make sure they're treated respectfully in turn. At any rate, it's great that the forum does NOT take type harassment lightly. Your concerns will be addressed one way or another. 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

_It looks to me that while there has been a trend of assuming most people are 6s, and it probably still exists in the minds of some, it has greatly diminished as more and more people start to realize its pointlessness. If anyone has been hurt because of this bullshit, by all means they deserve redress. For this*, as I said, they need to address appropriate channels so that all such conflicts are resolved between designated forum staff, the typer and typee instead of being made a public affair*. All that accomplishes is turning the very pertinent issue of type harassment into an underhanded, counter-productive farce, with no real resolution or comfort being provided to those that have suffered in any way. It serves to increase the rift between typers and typees. 

And, again, with the mistyping deal, I am noticing a greater problem with mistypes being called out on unrelated threads. And, sometimes, it's done in a rather brash and pushy manner. It's alright to ask if they're open to suggestions/ respectfully suggest an alternate fix and quit if they've concluded and are not interested in continuing further. But, outright trolling people is not something I approve. This seems like something we need more work on. The Enneagram forum is not perfect, but it is getting healthier and more hospitable for people. I have been here for nearly two years, and I speak from experience. I hope that more people will receive help with their personal growth around the forums.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Sollertis said:


> This is off topic, but do you change your damn avatar like you change your socks? I constantly see your posts and it always takes me a while to realize who it is.


You did not ask me but I'll reply too because many people have said something about _me_ changing _my_ avatars and signatures and I always wonder why would anyone care if I do change them! I always get so easily bored with those that I absolutely MUST find something new. I don't think I'll ever have one particular avatar or signature and I cannot think of any _good_ reason to have only one set and like I said, I prefer changing them.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

I can see where clinging to a possibly incorrect image of oneself would get people offended, because often, these people may notice real tendencies that overlap with what they aren't, and they might be over-fixated on these for reasons people typing them will never know. I mean, I tend to be leery about going too heavy in the self-discovery department with the enneagram (that's just me, nothing wrong with doing this) because it's too easy to miss the big picture presented by the system itself, which surely isn't meant to have a strong correlation to individual variation. It's like, you just never really know how it plays into your identity in motion beyond the theoretical that can be tied into abstract mental concepts, like your general approach to information. To me, the enneagram always felt like a starting point to nowhere, other than it might explain a few aspects of your persona. When I see people trying to "live up" to types, that's a problem.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

zallla said:


> You did not ask me but I'll reply too because many people have said something about _me_ changing _my_ avatars and signatures and I always wonder why would anyone care if I do change them! I always get so easily bored with those that I absolutely MUST find something new. I don't think I'll ever have one particular avatar or signature and I cannot think of any _good_ reason to have only one set and like I said, I prefer changing them.


What do these people say about your avatars? Why would anyone object to your change of avatars? That's ridiculous. :laughing: As for signatures, as I said, you have used your signatures to make a point about all of your typing struggles in the past. There's nothing off about that. If it works for you, it works for you. You go girl! I enjoy some of the gifs you use in your sigs. The dancing one was funky, and the current one is absolutely adorable (Boss loves em puppies!).

Do we have an avatar/sig criticizing police on board? Maybe, I should start an emancipatory movement for everyone's rights to choose their sigs/avatars and start a thread about the "Avatar/Sig police" and my vehement opposition of the same. :crazy: Y'all know I am all for fighting oppression of all sorts! *sharpens blade* I am taking complaints right now guys. Get in touch with your own Perc Joan Of Arc anytime! (my next post rank perhaps!)


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

> When I see people trying to "live up" to types, that's a problem.


 @_JungyesMBTIno_

This is problematic, more for the typee than anyone else (in any significant way, at least). Anyone who takes on the "persona" of a type each time they change a type is engaging in unhealthy behaviour no matter how they justify it. I have seen such people alter/modify parts of their personality to fit into this box (and the worst part is that they often don't even understand the type they're trying to live up to). Over time, they get frustrated and move on to the next type and the next without ever really stopping to take a breath and slow down, so to speak. The following are some observations I have made over time: 

1. A poor understanding of Types is one cause. Anyone who is struggling with their type over a long period of time, has fallen into the trap of changing their behaviour to fit with various types, and has only been exposed to online descriptions or has, at most, browsed one book or so is not in the best place to accurately self type. 

2. Type me threads don't always work for such people because they can have complex identity concerns that can't be addressed by an online typing 'session'. They need far more contemplation, feedback from peers/family and other supportive people irl. 

3. There's something I have observed with some people who take on this shifting personas every time they pick a type. A few of them are not currently psychologically and/or emotionally healthy. Someone, irl, was in a similar place. And, she was just not in the right mindset for delving into this kind of, potentially, disconcerting self-exploration. Any Enneagram practitioner/theorist will tell you that you must NOT type yourself when you're not neurotypical and/or going through other extenuating circumstances/physical illness or what have you. 

4. If you're depressed, suffering from PTSD or what have you, this is not the time to type yourself. This is, most certainly, not the time to expose yourself to the comments (which may at times be critical/hurtful unintentionally/intentionally) of complete strangers on the internet. Clearly, this is not a clinical setting. And, these people are not interacting with professionals trained to deal with individuals with a history of illness/trauma/abuse and so on. If someone isn't at a healthy place, whether you're conflicted between 2 types or 4, hold off on self typing for now. 

Read Enneagram material, and browse through growth strategies for all types. Pick what helps you. But, DON'T get obsessed and fixated with picking up a type. Don't try on one type and another, changing your personality (thereby stifling yourself in unhealthy ways) to fit a flawed conception of a type. Focus on getting better. Try to make use of all the medical help and other support your loved ones can provide. With online interactions, limit it to those who don't disrespect your emotional state or invalidate you in other ways.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Sollertis said:


> This is off topic, but do you change your damn avatar like you change your socks? I constantly see your posts and it always takes me a while to realize who it is.


 Yeah baby


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Yeah. I dunno, I guess I can't see where finding your type is really helpful to anything on a personal level in the scheme of things (it's likely something about me - not that this is particularly a truth for anyone else). I remember when I found mine, it was the fastest, most meaningless move I've ever made in the self-discovery department (I just went to a website and skimmed the descriptions and thought 5 fit the best, and then, I just couldn't figure out the significance of the system, so I just accepted the number and thought it accurately depicted my general approach to the world over the course of my life), but it captivated the nerdy side of me, basically (I was like, "oh neat, there's a general category for my approach and motivational tendencies, as well as for other people," and then I was like "whatever - cool trivia"). It took me a long time to wrap my head around the enneagram for some reason. I think I was always aware of my own intellectual/informational tendencies to begin with, so I couldn't have been less shocked by the codification of it - I just thought if I removed the number, it wouldn't change anything about me anyway, or if I didn't accept the number, it wouldn't change anything about me anyway. I was used to describing myself and twin as intellectual and such before I discovered it, so it was like nothing meaningful to me other than I loved being affirmed of the significance of my observation IRL (which personalized it more to me). The wings were sooooooo much more of a revelation to me - it took about 3 years for me to settle on 4 and 1, but in the end, this knowledge hasn't changed me - it has stimulated a lot of interesting speculation about personality and how I relate to various people, but it took already knowing myself quite well (or just accepting observations about myself without reservation that there may be more to them than what meets the eye) just to settle on the labels, rather than endlessly try to fit myself into them before I even knew what to look for in myself. What's especially rough about the enneagram to me is how much it relies on stereotypes to work - I almost didn't accept 4 or 1, due to the stupid stereotypical labels behind them (e.g. 4s being "drama queens" - oh please, intellectualize the language more - WTF does "drama queen" even mean outside of dopey Hollywood imagery? or 1s being these stern moralists (heh, that's soooo not me on any level, lol - it may or may not be true IRL, but it's certainly not a "universal 1") - once again, what does that really mean? Very limiting imagery that can be painful to try to wrap yourself around, although it probably works well enough in determining which annoying stereotype is the most ego syntonic to you to accept without reservation). Frankly, I think the process of finding the type is the shallow part (it's probably set up that way on purpose so people don't get too confused or freaked out by it), while the process of seeing how it fits is where stuff gets deep (as deep as you care to go, really).


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

I think what I actually like about the enneagram over MBTI is how it starts out surface level, so in the end, it maps over individuals to a scary-accurate degree without having to psychoanalyze them (often fruitlessly in MBTI). You can just use the person to penetrate what unsavory stereotypes might exist in enneatype descriptions to trim out the "fat and junk," but keep their type in tact nonetheless, while MBTI forces conformity unless you have some kind of principle of reasoning on your side somehow.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

@Boss



> As someone who was trolled around the forum for a few months lol and treated poorly when requesting typing assistance *when I was new to the forum, I do NOT take harassment of any kind or ridiculous hasty claims about someone's type based on inane unverifiable assumptions, lightly at all.* I understand how disrespectful it can be, especially when you're new to the forum environment and to the Enneagram. Any Tom, Harry or whoever can walk in and start shoving negative stereotypes and other atheoretical nonsense down your throat, make personal assumptions about you, pathologize you and so on, without once sharing useful information adequately. This is not how typing or any kind of Enneagram discussion should take place. It's shoddy, juvenile and unacceptable. Also, around this time, a lot of typings were done on the basis of vibes, avatars, comparing a person with other posters (LOL) and other such 'methods'.


I agree, there's a time and place for suggesting someone might be another type and its just not appropriate to randomly make suggestions not to mention derails normal discussion. Suggesting types should remain on _type me _threads or _whats the type above_' threads. This should definitely continue to be taken seriously as to avoid further chaos etc.



> Overall, by that time, no more than five to six self typed 4s had been typed as Sixes by active typers. About three had come to the conclusion they were a 6 on their very threads, and these threads had gone well. One of these self typed 4s was suggested a core 7 typing, and the thread went very well. If one or two of these threads did not go as well as the typee would have liked, it is unfortunate. But, it's insufficient evidence for a E-forum-wide persecutory *trend* based on the idea that everyone is 6 until proven otherwise.


This is a healthy example of someone coming to the conclusion on their own in the end, where they have not only accepted it for themselves but havn't needed to be goaded into it. And if we continue the way we are going and giving those inc newbies the best information we have available, then I think good things will continue and I can see this forum evolving into something even more productive and helpful. As you've said, a big hurdle has been overcome and we will reap the rewards of better atmosphere. 



> _So, Please don't feel disempowered. Take control of the process. * You can use your voice in peaceful ways to make the process comfortable and more effective.* Typers here, for the most part, are wonderful. They'd be happy to accommodate your feelings. Both typers and typees need to show respect, communicate well and make sure they're treated respectfully in turn. At any rate, it's wonderful that the forum does NOT take type harassment lightly. Your concerns will be addressed one way or another. _


This gives a lot of reassurance to typees that their concerns will be taken seriously. Just having this in place should definitely be an improvement and is just a really good thing having this option. This needed to be done for a long time so am glad its in place now. 



> It looks to me that while there has been a trend of assuming most people are 6s, and it probably still exists in some ways, it's diminishing as more and more people start to realize its pointlessness. If anyone has been hurt because of this bullshit, by all means they deserve redress. For this*, as I said, they need to address appropriate channels so that all such conflicts are resolved between designated forum staff, the typer and typee instead of being made a public affair*. All that accomplishes is turning the very pertinent issue of type harassment into a nonsensical counter-productive farce, with no real resolution or comfort being provided to those that have suffered in any way.


It is disappearing and about time. Im glad people are questioning stereotypes more. Tbh, personally I find trying to pinpoint types into precise order of most common to least common to be another stereotype provoker. I havn't come accross any 100% accurate data suggest type popularities in my travels so tend not to put a lot of weight into this. 

Some good points there Boss! Good things are happening even though there is much more to do, I think we have gotten over the first hurdle. And as long as those stereotypes are nipped in the bud, I think we will have a cleaner forum. Good stuff!


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## Sollertis (Aug 2, 2012)

zallla said:


> You did not ask me but I'll reply too because many people have said something about _me_ changing _my_ avatars and signatures and I always wonder why would anyone care if I do change them! I always get so easily bored with those that I absolutely MUST find something new. I don't think I'll ever have one particular avatar or signature and I cannot think of any _good_ reason to have only one set and like I said, I prefer changing them.


I understand getting bored with your avatar and changing it, but in a way it's like your signature. If you changed your signature every few months or so how would anyone know it was yours? Looking at names is obviously too difficult.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Boss said:


> What do these people say about your avatars? Why would anyone object to your change of avatars?


They can't keep up with me and some seem to think that the only explanation for someone to be able to change it so often is that the person is phoney. But I only choose something I relate to. Some have expressed their thoughts about my type based on my avatar. That has actually been rather entertaining.




> As for signatures, as I said, you have used your signatures to make a point about all of your typing struggles in the past. There's nothing off about that. If it works for you, it works for you. You go girl! I enjoy some of the gifs you use in your sigs. The dancing one was funky, and the current one is absolutely adorable (Boss loves em puppies!).


Thanks! :kitteh::crazy: I appreciate that. After all, you're not the ingratiating one here ha-ha (and trust me, I am completely honest in this post at least ).




> Do we have an avatar/sig criticizing police on board? Maybe, I should start an emancipatory movement for everyone's rights to choose their sigs/avatars and start a thread about the "Avatar/Sig police" and my vehement opposition of the same. :crazy: Y'all know I am all for fighting oppression of all sorts! *sharpens blade* I am taking complaints right now guys. Get in touch with your own Perc Joan Of Arc anytime! (my next post rank perhaps!)


Cool, I would be eager to participate! Why not promote the right for _all_ kind of freedom as well? For example, why can't _I_ change my post rank title? It's pretty lame that I cannot adjust that, I'd have tons of ideas for that one too. Hmph.


Btw, @_Boss_ and others, I just wanted to say that even though some of the comments I got during my typing process seemed belittling, I could have behaved better by myself too. I could have expressed my thoughts more and my reactivity less (if I had been aware enough of the whole thing). But I truly, truly respect the people who bother to help others here, I've always wanted to express that personally too but to emphasize it and express it publicly, I'm writing it here too. The fact that there are not that many mistyped members is definitely partly due to the efforts of those who really try to increase the awareness of Enneagram. Keep going! I'll try to deepen my knowledge and participate whenever I feel I have something worth to say.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@_zallla_

:laughing:
You're so funny when you're being all honest and shit, zallla. I wish I were 'ingratiating' :sad:. Unfortunately, I am just more teasing. I tell you, the 'masses' would lurve my "ingratiating" avatar. Dude, how I love puppies and long for the day I can have some! They always cheer me up, and puppies jumping rope? hahahaha love it. 

And, yes, it's good to see you take responsibility for your part in the process. I wish more typees did that. In some cases, a typee has not really reacted at all and the typer(s) have been abusive. In most cases, better communication and composure from typees and, resulting, more consideration from typers (which really is their responsibility as communication is yours) can make the process a lot smoother for all involved.

p.s. What is phoney is judging someone as "phoney" just from their avatar.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

What people care about people changing signatures? I change mine every time I come on here. I like to put up my song of the day (I tend to wake up with a different song in my head everyday- it becomes my theme song) or whatever. Why would anyone care? Weird...


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

brainheart said:


> What people care about people changing signatures? I change mine every time I come on here. I like to put up my song of the day (I tend to wake up with a different song in my head everyday- it becomes my theme song) or whatever. Why would anyone care? Weird...


Typical 4. :tongue:


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Kito said:


> Typical 4. :tongue:


Hmm... I'm not sure if they are pleased about "typical". I wouldn't... but I'm not a Four after all so what do I know anyway? Now this post starts to seem rather useless :laughing:


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

zallla said:


> Hmm... I'm not sure if they are pleased about "typical". I wouldn't... but I'm not a Four after all so what do I know anyway? Now this post starts to seem rather useless :laughing:


Oops, you're right, better correct that.

Special Four! ...Just like everyone else.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Boss said:


> @_zallla_
> 
> :laughing:
> You're so funny when you're being all honest and shit, zallla.


Aww, thanks, what a praise, one of the bests I've ever got here!! Honesty and directness really seem to pay off, I reckon  Keep talking if there's anything else you would like to comment, Boss; you're a delight to my eyes  



> Dude, how I love puppies and long for the day I can have some! They always cheer me up, and puppies jumping rope? hahahaha love it.


I'd want to have one (or many) too! I'd definitely teach them all kinds of things, the first thing being jumping rope (I'd show how wrong people are when they assume most things utterly impossible). I'd love to have babies too, maybe I could teach them at the same time, they'd make a great lot together xD



> p.s. What is phoney is judging someone as "phoney" just from their avatar.


So true.

@Kito, nice try!


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

brainheart said:


> What people care about people changing signatures? I change mine every time I come on here. I like to put up my song of the day (I tend to wake up with a different song in my head everyday- it becomes my theme song) or whatever. Why would anyone care? Weird...


I change my avatars at least 2-3 times a week .. sometimes even twice a day ... 

I want certain people to know how I'm feeling when I put up my avatars. It's not just about the blood and gore. I almost always pick something that displays an emotion closest to mine at the time I put it up.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Kito said:


> Oops, you're right, better correct that.
> 
> Special Four! ...Just like everyone else.


Do you have some kind of problem with 4s? :laughing: I always see you commenting somewhat negatively on them.


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> Do you have some kind of problem with 4s? :laughing: I always see you commenting somewhat negatively on them.


Absolutely no problem, trust me! It was a joke. :tongue: Some of my closest friends are 4s, they're awesome.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Kito said:


> Absolutely no problem, trust me! It was a joke. :tongue: Some of my closest friends are 4s, they're awesome.


I know you were kidding, but I think I saw an old post of yours once saying something about how 4s were sad or something :laughing:


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

kaleidoscope said:


> I know you were kidding, but I think I saw an old post of yours once saying something about how 4s were sad or something :laughing:


Yeah, that was on the article about Enneagram talk styles. It was more of an observation than a negative comment.

*shall remember to tread carefully in future*


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@kaleidoscope

Everyone hates 4s! dintcha kno? No one wants to be a 4. 
@zallla

Oh yes, that overwhelming "honesty" of yours warms heart.:laughing: To reward your efforts, I might create a "Everyone is a phoney until proven otherwise" thread. I might even add a protip to my signature. And, I am so beyond delightful babe. I appreciate your most *sincere* of compliments. It...is so characteristic of you! *speechless* 

Anyway, have those puppies before you have em babies. They make for good practice:laughing: That's my plan, at least. 

Going back to the subject at hand, I have noticed that widely variable self reporting is another cause of mistyping. I understand when this happens due to extenuating circumstances. But, it doesn't apply to most people. I also get the point about growth etc., but in some cases I have observed some serious contradictions in what's reported in PM relative to threads, and many times from one type me thread to the next. Some people are just creating a character, and a few are not. I am curious to hear if anyone has ideas on the probable causes for widely variable self reporting (besides extenuating circumstances like illness/trauma etc.) and how best to address it.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Boss said:


> Going back to the subject at hand, I have noticed that widely variable self reporting is another cause of mistyping. I understand when this happens due to extenuating circumstances. But, it doesn't apply to most people. I also get the point about growth etc., but in some cases I have observed some serious contradictions in what's reported in PM relative to threads, and many times from one type me thread to the next. Some people are just creating a character, and a few are not. I am curious to hear if anyone has ideas on the probable causes for widely variable self reporting (besides extenuating circumstances like illness/trauma etc.) and how best to address it.


That really happens. However, I am not sure it's only negative, it's building your character. To some extent that is growth. I know what you mean though, people getting a little too attached to certain things. At some point it starts to be creating the character you wish you had (and why wouldn't we do that, it can be so much more fun than admitting the biggest faults). 

!Alert, personal story, skip if you're not interested! I know I was highly eager to know more about myself. I could experience the realization of something that felt very important in my life and personality, think I had really found something essential that could explain me and my life. Sometimes it really was essential information, sometimes it was irrelevant information, sometimes it was even from the "wrong perspective", a possible scenario but not reality. I got enthusiastic first and only after giving the thought another thoughts realized it wasn't that important after all.

So, one possible solution is to focus on the big picture. What were you like when you were young? What qualities you have always had? What qualities really make you different from many others and define you best?

Sure, diseases and conditions contribute but some people use those to justify certain things. The fact while unhealthy, they were so different from the person they currently are is neglected like it didn't exist. I think the most challenging events in life reveal our true nature best. If interpreted correctly, they can tell how we reacted and why. 

Me, for example, was not really myself anymore because I was too busy, too busy to be a rebel, an outsider, someone who does not belong but is different, too busy to please the few people I actually cared about, too busy to do whatever it takes to be competent and successful. I "forgot" to relax, forgot to live, forgot that my inner circle won't reject me anyway. I was exhausted because of all the work I had done to be successful, loved by the people I loved. I just couldn't bare the thought of being a meaningless nobody or not being appreciated by my family. Eventually I just... lost the touch of myself and what _I_ wanted. I became anxious and depressed. Anxiety and (mild) depression do not tell much about me as such but when you look at the reasons, you can see my personality there.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

douche chills galore


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

Boss said:


> @_kaleidoscope_
> 
> Everyone hates 4s! dintcha kno? No one wants to be a 4.


:crying::crying::crying:

*slits wrists*


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@zallla



> At some point it starts to be creating the character you wish you had* (and why wouldn't we do that, it can be so much more fun than admitting the biggest faults)*.


Yes, admitting faults is not easy for anyone. But, *knowingly* creating 'characters' and wasting a typer's time is disrespectful to the person working with you and a very puerile thing to do.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Boss said:


> @_zallla_
> 
> Yes, admitting faults is not easy for anyone. But, *knowingly* creating 'characters' and wasting a typer's time is disrespectful to the person working with you and a very puerile thing to do.


Definitely. But I have a feeling that other members eventually start to ignore the posts of a member acting like that so they'll get their reward. At least I won't spend my time bolstering their ego for nothing. It's kinda annoying to watch though so any solutions would be very much welcome here.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

I agree wih what @Boss is saying. It's like, when people find out (or suspect it), they're just not going to waste the time of day anyway - it's downright boring, especially those snooze-worthy posts where people post these emo essays in the questionairres about their fake personas (MBTI has the same issue with the questionairres, where people who have no inkling about the principles behind the theory pretty much waste everyone's time writing 90% irrelevant stuff about themselves and their personal lives that frankly, I doubt anyone takes the time to read sentence-for-sentence, let alone, paragraph-for-paragraph). In the end, using the types as personas is 100% abusing the whole concept of the types - it's going to inevitably lead to fake information about the types and what it means to have a type, etc., so what's the point of talking about the fake stuff? It just showcases a person's narcissism in the end.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

zallla said:


> Definitely. But I have a feeling that other members eventually start to ignore the posts of a member acting like that so they'll get their reward. At least I won't spend my time bolstering their ego for nothing. It's kinda annoying to watch though so any solutions would be very much welcome here.


You do realize you've done this, right? The creating personas thing?  You haven't done it on purpose maybe, but still.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@zallla

Perhaps the enneagram is just not for you then.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> You do realize you've done this, right? The creating personas thing?  You haven't done it on purpose maybe, but still.


I'll reply with my own quote:



zallla said:


> I know I was highly eager to know more about myself. I could experience the realization of something that felt very important in my life and personality, think I had really found something essential that could explain me and my life. Sometimes it really was essential information, sometimes it was irrelevant information, sometimes it was even from the "wrong perspective", a possible scenario but not reality. I got enthusiastic first and only after giving the thought another thoughts realized it wasn't that important after all.


If you define _that_ creating personas, I agree. But I think Boss was referring to knowingly creating personas... I thought that kind of behavior to be to control, influence, impress, manipulate etc. other members. Frankly, I was only interested in getting to know myself.

Btw, what was your point anyway, you must have had a good one since you bothered to express your thoughts?




JungyesMBTIno said:


> @_zallla_
> 
> Perhaps the enneagram is just not for you then.


Would you bother to explain what makes you think like that?


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

zallla said:


> _Btw, what was your point anyway, you must have had a good one since you bothered to express your thoughts?_


Well, I know from reading your several typing threads as well as your posts all over the enneagram subforums that you posted several things that were completely contradictory. You'd say things like "I've always been a melancholic/sad person" when you were self-typing as a 4, but then when you switched to 7, you'd affirm that you were optimistic to the core, always a happy person, always on the go. This is just a basic example. You'd later on deny it. You were anything but consistent.

If that's not creating personas, I don't know what it is honestly. Hence, my post to remind you that you did the very same thing you supposedly abhor.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@_zallla_

See my post right before the one you quoted. I mean, truly, I don't really believe the enneagram is something for everyone. You certainly have the freedom to use it as persona system, but there are consequences (in the end, if everyone were doing this, the forum would turn into an irrelevant narcissism fest of one's own designing).


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

kaleidoscope said:


> Well, I know from reading your several typing threads as well as your posts all over the enneagram subforums that you posted several things that were completely contradictory. You'd say things like "I've always been a melancholic/sad person" when you were self-typing as a 4, but then when you switched to 7, you'd affirm that you were optimistic to the core, always a happy person, always on the go. This is just a basic example. You'd later on deny it. You were anything but consistent.


That's exactly what I was referring to when I wrote this: _"I could experience the realization of something that felt very important in my life and personality, think I had really found something essential that could explain me and my life. Sometimes it really was essential information, sometimes it was irrelevant information, sometimes it was even from the "wrong perspective", a possible scenario but not reality."_

When I was very down, I saw my life from that perspective. When I started to feel much better, I adjusted it. Not intentionally though. And I don't think that was creating personas, I just tried to explain myself the way I felt, thought and behaved and the reasons for it.



> Hence, my post to remind you that you did the very same thing you supposedly abhor.


I get your point but please stop judging me inaccurately. And I would not say I _abhor_ even the ones who knowingly create these personas to control, manipulate or impress people, I just don't want to waste my time for them and their attempts. Their attention-seeking behavior annoys me but I still want to have certain level of respect for every individual. Anyway, I sure _don't_ abhor the ones who only want to know who they are without having negative intentions or narcissistic attitude towards other members no matter how inconsistent they are. I feel for them, I know what it's like when you keep searching and searching and still don't know who you really are.

Honestly, I don't understand why you want to hunt me because of this, it seems rather immature and pompous. I'm willing to increase awareness of mistyping in general and even providing personal information to help people deal with typing difficulties, personal or others'. I'm not the only one, there have been and there will be many others too. I wish I could make it easier for them (and for the people who bother to help them) and I definitely wish they won't have to get this much crap from other members when they finally know their type.

@JungyesMBTIno, I am thankful for not being one of those who spend their time using Enneagram as persona system. I seriously hope you prefer to rely on your own personal observations and judgments.


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## Ayia (Feb 27, 2012)

is this a mistyping-thread or a troll-thread?


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Ayia said:


> is this a mistyping-thread or a troll-thread?


Depends on the perspective. Frankly, I wonder the same thing. Due to personal issues, this thread has become useless for proper discussion.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> @_JungyesMBTIno_, I am thankful for not being one of those who spend their time using Enneagram as persona system. I seriously hope you prefer to rely on your own personal observations and judgments.


Honestly, I really don't know what you do with the enneagram, other than I've seen a lot of varied posts by you when scanning from that fora index, but the only reason I got suspicious had to do with how everlasting some of your MBTI typing senarios were from what I recall (although I take it that you might've been a newcomer?).


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

@zallla

I'm not being pompous or immature, I'm just pointing out things as they are. If you read my previous post, I said that *maybe you didn't do it intentionally*, but you nevertheless perpetuated incorrect information all over the forums. 

Funny how you felt I was hunting you down, lol. That's a bit exaggerated, isn't it? ^^


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Honestly, I really don't know what you do with the enneagram, other than I've seen a lot of varied posts by you when scanning from that fora index, but the only reason I got suspicious had to do with how everlasting some of your MBTI typing senarios were from what I recall (although I take it that you might've been a newcomer?).


MBTI _and _Enneagram*


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> the only reason I got suspicious had to do with how everlasting some of your MBTI typing senarios were from what I recall (although I take it that you might've been a newcomer?).


Long-lasting, what's suspicious about that? I am seeing endless possibilities and explanations and combinations of this, that and those and thus I have had "some" troubles to recognize these things. When I came here, I knew nothing about cognitive functions, just had heard of MBTI. CFs seemed interesting but challenging to recognize in my own behavior. Certain things made sense, certain didn't and I felt I could fit nowhere. I kept searching and considered them all so there's no need to think I would be too narrow-minded  I'm not 100 % pleased with my current typing either but it's the best fit I could find thus far. I could be something else too but based on my current level of self-awareness that makes most sense to me. If you have new suggestions, just feel free to express them, I'd only be curious to know.




kaleidoscope said:


> @_zallla_
> Funny how you felt I was hunting you down, lol. That's a bit exaggerated, isn't it? ^^


No, I don't think so. It was not the first time you seemed to do it. From my part it's now _The End_ for this story.


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## PlacentaCake (Jun 14, 2012)

:happy:


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)




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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Ok, calm your asses down bitches! 

Anyway, yes, I was referring to people who "knowingly" create personas. When a typer brings up these glaring inconsistencies, some get the strong itch to come in "white-knighting" like a bunch of attention seekers and disrupt the process. I respect that people grow and so on. Some have extenuating circumstances. But again, in cases where it's obvious that the person has come around with a whole new persona (changing with each type) for the purpose of proving a typing then yes it's plenty clear that time is being wasted.


Enough of that shit. Now, if anyone wants me to suggest typings for their eager little butts on this thread, mention me. I will swoop right in in my Enneagram 'superhero' costume. :laughing: Keep in mind that I don't have a lot of time, so I will only be able to provide some brief pointers etc. And, preferably we have interacted in the past. If not, you at least need a type me thread going so I can have a look. Again, my participation will be sporadic.

In the meantime, if anyone has any comments, I am looking into an 8 wing on my 7 fix (for shits and giggles for now).


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