# Fi putting value in Logic (Ti)



## Angry-Spaghetti (Feb 25, 2021)

Llyralen said:


> I think you can use Ti if you want to and yes you might value it. I always feel the best analogy is right and left handedness. Also, if you work in a field that requires Ti or if you are close to a lot of people with Ti, you could use it more often.
> 
> I think a question that truly showed me how different people’s way of thinking is was asked in a thread by @ai.tran.75 . She asked people if they would (A) rather keep their past memories but not be able to make new ones or (B) continue to make new memories but lose the old — explain your thinking. The Ti users who I asked said “How old am I in this scenario?” If older than 40 then they chose the first one. Or they would say “The second because I’m younger than 40.” Or some such that made you realize they made the question objective and took the value out. Certain memories weren’t better than others in their scenario.
> 
> ...


I understand. I think for me decisions take very little time, like you pondering over that question is just unbeliveable for me to do that. I'd rather have the decision out of the way so it feels like somethings been accomplished (an external standard?). but I think i'd choose B, on the basis that I want to experience a lot more happiness and grow more to be able to teach others how to be the same way. thanks for the comment Llyralen.


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## lww23 (Mar 7, 2021)

Say, both a Windows PC and a Mac can read a Word document without a problem. They can both do the same thing and achieve the same outcome, however, the PC and the Mac are different in every way. In terms of the operating system (the essence), they are fundamentally different.

This difference is similar to how the Ti type and the Fi type differ. It's hard to tell them apart just from what they do, and what has been done. It is important, therefore, to look into their inner settings, to find out how these two types of minds differ in cognition, and this is usually not directly observable.

The Fi type, being a Feeler who is introverted, shares a similar drive as the Fe type. People and relationships are their primary focus.
The Ti type, being a Thinker who is introverted, shares a similar drive as the Te type. Tasks, things, and ideas are their primary focus.

They can both use logic effectively, and their ability to conduct logical thinking is not the major difference. Any type is capable of doing so. If we look into their respective motives and purposes, we will find the differences.

Marxism, for example, can be seen as an Fe philosophy in essence, why?
The key concern is social inequality, injustice, and exploitation. Social class distinctions. What should be done to make everyone happy, to create a perfect world where all enjoy but none suffers, and to realize universal equality? Marx says the proletarian must start a revolution. See? It is essentially Fe, happiness for everyone. Although logic is used, as Marx was a philosopher, it does not change the nature of Marxism, which is Fe at core.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Angry-Spaghetti said:


> I understand. I think for me decisions take very little time, like you pondering over that question is just unbeliveable for me to do that. I'd rather have the decision out of the way so it feels like somethings been accomplished (an external standard?). but I think i'd choose B, on the basis that I want to experience a lot more happiness and grow more to be able to teach others how to be the same way. thanks for the comment Llyralen.


What type do you think you are again? That sounds like the definition of J…..all the NFJs chose B right away as they put much more value on future accomplishments than on attachment to the past but all the Ts decided quickly. Te economizes everything. P ponders. It was the rare NFP user who didn’t take time but in the end choose A because of attachment. We need more Se-Fi input, More Te-Si input. The one Fi-Se we got also chose A and listed attachment as their reason. What do you think of these observations? 

NFPs are going to take very seriously anything involving evaluating internal framework/morals and self-evaluation of feelings. I would be very very surprised if this question wasn’t highly meaningful to think of and discuss for any NFP (although I suppose there was the one who just hated their past that much). Someone answering quickly or without placing meaning onto the idea or without bringing past memories to bare that were precious when being asked if they could toss them is a surprise to NFP. It’s the whole personality that you’re being asked to toss as thought of on the Si-Ne axis… due to seeing formative years as paramount to personality. Not sorting through this is what is very surprising to an NFP as we also very much enjoy imagining ourselves in different scenarios as a primary way of learning about ourselves.

NTPs also like learning from scenarios like this and would take a lot of time with them if this one wasn’t a no-brainer if you cut through the emotions. If I had asked a philosophical question on what they would do given X or Y that did not involve values but just Ti then they would have been very keen on exploring it. 

I think these are definite things to note when trying to figure out your type, for sure. Right?


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

From what I understand Fi creates a value-based framework similar to the logic-based of Ti users. I know Fi is much more flexible than Ti. If an Fi user valued logic, the framework would be very similar.


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## Angry-Spaghetti (Feb 25, 2021)

Llyralen said:


> What type do you think you are again? That sounds like the definition of J…..all the NFJs chose B right away as they put much more value on future accomplishments than on attachment to the past but all the Ts decided quickly. Te economizes everything. P ponders. It was the rare NFP user who didn’t take time but in the end choose A because of attachment. We need more Se-Fi input, More Te-Si input. The one Fi-Se we got also chose A and listed attachment as their reason. What do you think of these observations?
> 
> NFPs are going to take very seriously anything involving evaluating internal framework/morals and self-evaluation of feelings. I would be very very surprised if this question wasn’t highly meaningful to think of and discuss for any NFP (although I suppose there was the one who just hated their past that much). Someone answering quickly or without placing meaning onto the idea or without bringing past memories to bare that were precious when being asked if they could toss them is a surprise to NFP. It’s the whole personality that you’re being asked to toss as thought of on the Si-Ne axis… due to seeing formative years as paramount to personality. Not sorting through this is what is very surprising to an NFP as we also very much enjoy imagining ourselves in different scenarios as a primary way of learning about ourselves.
> 
> ...


I know I use Se-Ni, but I'm not sure what I value, Fe and Fi are both important to me aswell as Te and Ti. Here's my first time attitutinal psyche result: Attitudinal Psyche Advanced Test v4 - Attitudinal Psyche

Here's the general motivations of me: Ena Sexta - Attitudinal Psyche

"*Results Emotion & Physics:* Enas prefer to conclude, quickly decide, and waste the least amount of time when it comes to emotion and physics. You will often hear or see them being flippant and prompt when it comes to deciding their own desires for excitement, pleasure, enjoyment, and entertainment."

"Unbothered emotion (4E) has a lax and carefree attitude towards all concepts of emotion. All 4E types believe they are insufficient at being involved in matters relating to the realm of human expression."

I read this after explaining to you my feelings/motivations, it's fits like a glove.

I think this type correlates with Se-Ni-Ti-Fe in that order. I don't hold much value on my personal emotions, that's why I have E last in my psyche, I value others emotions though.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Angry-Spaghetti said:


> I know I use Se-Ni, but I'm not sure what I value, Fe and Fi are both important to me aswell as Te and Ti. Here's my first time attitutinal psyche result: Attitudinal Psyche Advanced Test v4 - Attitudinal Psyche
> 
> Here's the general motivations of me: Ena Sexta - Attitudinal Psyche
> 
> ...


Interesting tests. I think you can move towards J and Fi is the opposite of what you are describing up there— meaning you likely have Fe. Fi explores their own emotions at length and in every conceivable way and feels responsibility for their own emotions and thinking and actions produced from those emotions. At this point you would either be Te dom or not on the Fi-Te axis (as you said in the most recent post). I would guess also that you are likely a J. I would be surprised if you are Se first at this point as you are talking a lot about decisions and not much about exploration. Decisions mean judging functions.


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## Angry-Spaghetti (Feb 25, 2021)

Llyralen said:


> Interesting tests. I think you can move towards J and Fi is the opposite of what you are describing up there— meaning you likely have Fe. Fi explores their own emotions at length and in every conceivable way and feels responsibility for their own emotions and thinking and actions produced from those emotions. At this point you would either be Te dom or not on the Fi-Te axis (as you said in the most recent post). I would guess also that you are likely a J. I would be surprised if you are Se first at this point as you are talking a lot about decisions and not much about exploration. Decisions mean judging functions.


I used to analyse emotions as other people produced them and then use those emotion as a template when the same situation arised. I had very few genuine emotions but they were very uncomfortable to feel like when my cat passed away. but I'm very motivated to get what I want and with the least amount of work.

I found out recently I'm a core 7, which is a huuge relief. I can now factor that into my actions and not be so confused all the time. My desire is to be able to get everything I want in that moment. Thinking about my actions through a 7's context they make sense, my 'Fi' was just my core 7, that's why I saw it as selfish in myself and others.

I mainly use people pleasing tactics when it comes to others, but it depends on the person.

My entire struggle was becoming concious of this 7 motivation, despising it because of what it made me do and thus forgoing the structure I had built to sate my desire for intimacy, food, drink and connection. Maybe XNTJ?


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Angry-Spaghetti said:


> I used to analyse emotions as other people produced them and then use those emotion as a template when the same situation arised. I had very few genuine emotions but they were very uncomfortable to feel like when my cat passed away. but I'm very motivated to get what I want and with the least amount of work.
> 
> I found out recently I'm a core 7, which is a huuge relief. I can now factor that into my actions and not be so confused all the time. My desire is to be able to get everything I want in that moment. Thinking about my actions through a 7's context they make sense, my 'Fi' was just my core 7, that's why I saw it as selfish in myself and others.
> 
> ...


I don't have Fe myself, so I'd ask Fe people on it, but you obviously learned from other's emotions... I think what you're describing is something Fe does. ESFJ might be something to explore from what you're saying here to me with learning from your past right here. It's possible for Ni heavy people to learn from their past, but it's usually difficult for them to get a pattern or story from their past. To put their past in chronological order and see a pattern for Ni is rare- actually I have hardly ever seen an Ni dom do that and it was never on their own. They always had an Si-Ne axis person pointing out the story in their past to learn from. It can take years for an Ni person to see learning in the past as relevant to their learning now. Ni picks up learning based on Se-- the now. Te doms don't delve into their own feelings much, but they really don't put much effort into evaluating other's feelings. Other people's reasons, yes. Feelings.. those are to be cut through and ignored to get production accomplished... Unless feelings are holding up production. lol. So XNTJ is no where near what I'd be guessing right now and seems unrelated to what you were saying above.. But lets work on that...tease out Se-Ni from Si-Ne... Do you think first-time experiences are important? Do first-time experience going well or going badly influence your later experiences and learning with that thing? That's a key question to figure out for Se-Ni or Si-Ne.


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## Angry-Spaghetti (Feb 25, 2021)

Llyralen said:


> I don't have Fe myself, so I'd ask Fe people on it, but you obviously learned from other's emotions... I think what you're describing is something Fe does. ESFJ might be something to explore from what you're saying here to me with learning from your past right here. It's possible for Ni heavy people to learn from their past, but it's usually difficult for them to get a pattern or story from their past. To put their past in chronological order and see a pattern for Ni is rare- actually I have hardly ever seen an Ni dom do that and it was never on their own. They always had an Si-Ne axis person pointing out the story in their past to learn from. It can take years for an Ni person to see learning in the past as relevant to their learning now. Ni picks up learning based on Se-- the now. Te doms don't delve into their own feelings much, but they really don't put much effort into evaluating other's feelings. Other people's reasons, yes. Feelings.. those are to be cut through and ignored to get production accomplished... Unless feelings are holding up production. lol. So XNTJ is no where near what I'd be guessing right now and seems unrelated to what you were saying above.. But lets work on that...tease out Se-Ni from Si-Ne... Do you think first-time experiences are important? Do first-time experience going well or going badly influence your later experiences and learning with that thing? That's a key question to figure out for Se-Ni or Si-Ne.


I think whether the experience goes well or not, if I enjoy it I think I'd be willing to do it again. Like if I am very bad a rock climbing or soccer, ill just want to go back and try to out-do myself. When it comes to relationships I am far more cautious, I do try to analyse my interactions with people against a prebuilt understanding of how 'normal' people act. I can get so nitpicky that I find problems where there are none and really I just become a detatched machine who is coded to find problems to improve. You may be right with ESFJ, but I'm also thinking potentially ESTP.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Angry-Spaghetti said:


> I think whether the experience goes well or not, if I enjoy it I think I'd be willing to do it again. Like if I am very bad a rock climbing or soccer, ill just want to go back and try to out-do myself. When it comes to relationships I am far more cautious, I do try to analyse my interactions with people against a prebuilt understanding of how 'normal' people act. I can get so nitpicky that I find problems where there are none and really I just become a detatched machine who is coded to find problems to improve. You may be right with ESFJ, but I'm also thinking potentially ESTP.


 Nothing you’re saying or giving attention to points to ESTP. that I can see. Your answer sounds Si. I would look at ESTJ or ESFJ in-depth.


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## Sakuzuki_99 (12 mo ago)

WickerDeer said:


> Well...I don't think Ti is the same thing as logic.
> 
> I took Logic class in college and I did fine. I'm a Fi dom, I think. I still enjoy some of the logical principles I learned and I wish I would have learned more, even though it was hard and my logic teacher was really sort of mean (but I liked him anyway and he seemed okay with me because I tried really hard).
> 
> ...


Same thing happens to me, Ti is always over Te and Ni (even though sometimes Ni is dominant) and I'm a Te dom (TeNi ENTJ)


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