# Question for women: How do you feel about men looking/glancing at your breasts?



## Nayru (Mar 17, 2011)

My question to women:

*How do you feel about men glancing at your chest? Why do you feel that way?*

Up to now I never look/glance at a woman breasts unless I am 100% sure they don't see me looking. Out of respect, and out of my assumption that a woman doesn't like men looking at their breasts and that she will judge me in a bad way when she sees me looking.

Then today I read an article where the author mentioned she actually felt flattered when men glance at her breasts! At that moment my whole world turned upside down. 

Seriously--I am anxious to know how more women feel about this matter.
I'm sure none of you like a guy STARING like a creep. I'm talking about a glance where you see him looking. If it's true many of you actually like it, I can begin appreciating women's breasts without shame or feeling that I'm doing something wrong here.


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

I don't mind - I like my boobs; to not have them appreciated would put them to waste. Also, men are always going to be compelled to look at breasts, whether you want them to or not. I understand they don't do it deliberately to make you uncomfortable or w.e.

...all I ask is that you be discrete and you be respectful - don't make it patently obvious you are looking. Do not stare at them, ever. Especially if I'm talking to you. 

Having said that however, just because I and the woman in the article don't mind it, doesn't mean everybody will. In such cases, you are far better to err on the side of caution.


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## bromide (Nov 28, 2011)

I agree with @Falling Leaves. Proceed with caution and try not to let women catch you doing it, because you never know how someone is going to respond. One person may feel complimented while another may feel creeped on, and you probably won't know either way until you see their response. Personally, it makes me uncomfortable to catch someone looking at my chest. I really don't like being sexualized by strangers.


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## abrayto (Feb 20, 2013)

Well, not to be egotistical, but I do know they are one of my better features so when I catch a guy looking I actually take it as a compliment. I don't like it when a guy unabashedly stares, espeically when we are talking. However, if it is a quick glance, it makes me feel very attractive and desirable. I sometimes wish they did it more. I do like that you want to respect women and you do need to try and read your audience a little bit but I bet a lot of women don't care as much as you think.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Come on, if someone walks past me who I'll never see again, if she has nice boobs I am going to 'look at them' -- I won't stare because its awkward in my culture, but not because I really care. I check out most women who I see who look attractive. A woman walked past me the other day in a bikini when I was going home from work. I'm sure she saw me checking her out (briefly enough.) Why not? Why should _I_ care?

She had a good body. What did she expect? Walk down the road in a bikini and all the men are going to go "Oh, I respect you too much, so I'll avert my gaze until you've walked past." LOL NO If you wear clothing like that, you are inviting people to look at you, in the same way if I walked around wearing a giant inflatable dick on my head, I'm inviting people to look at me.

However, I understand it's a bit different for women who don't look intentionally any noticeably different from anyone else. Why not, though. It's just a fact of life. If someone has a nice ass, why shouldn't I take a peek? So long as I'm not standing there drooling and fawning over it. I don't live in a Wahhabist country and I enjoy that women don't walk around wrapped in black towels and I'm pretty sure most women enjoy that too.

And if anyone checks me out, why would I care? Why wouldn't I feel complimented? I'm not saying they ever do, but it's not the point. I think it's a bit of false assumption to make that women are the only ones who get checked out, or if that's not an assumption, then instead that all men don't care bout it if it happens to them... it's as common for women to check out men as it is men, and often in an equally as lusty fashion.

EDIT: Unless however you live in a place where women really do need to be careful on the streets, then I guess it would be wrong to put people in fear of danger, even though you aren't planning on assaulting them.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

For those of us "ass or leg" guys, can we broaden the discussion to include those features as well? I'll likely look at her legs before I even move up.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I just chalk it up as reality as well. I mean, I'll look at features of a guy I find attractive, I just try to do it nonchalantly and still view them as a person and not just a collection of body parts. If I catch someone staring at me, it can actually be flattering. On occasion I'm even amused (such as with the boob thing).

What I don't like is simply feeling like I'm being pawed up with someone's eyes while the more essential parts of me are being trivialized.



Signify said:


> For those of us "ass or leg" guys, can we broaden the discussion to include those features as well? I'll likely look at her legs before I even move up.


lol... what have we done??


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> lol... what have we done??


Eh? Elaborate. I am curious as to why people continue the qualification of "But you must see us as people too". Well duh, a chopped-off boob isn't attractive. But if you mean for us to value as a personality, that's impossible, we don't know your personality. From our perspective, you are a stranger we have never met before, we know nothing about you, we only know you are great to look at.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Signify said:


> For those of us "ass or leg" guys, can we broaden the discussion to include those features as well? I'll likely look at her legs before I even move up.


 Wow yea, for real, legs are more important than breasts anyway.


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## Naia68 (Jan 28, 2013)

I don't like anyone looking at my boobs, or my butt, etc. IMO, it's extremely disrespectful. It comes across as if the person only cares about physical features. A human being is so much more than a body. 

For any men who are accustomed to looking at women primarily in a physical/sexual manner, I challenge you (in a good way!) to stop doing that and start noticing other qualities in women. You might just surprise yourself on how much your relationships can improve. :wink:


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Signify said:


> Eh? Elaborate.


Don't worry too much about it. I was just laughing because we started out discussing boobs, and now we're discussing butt and legs too, in short order. 



> I am curious as to why people continue the qualification of "But you must see us as people too". Well duh, a chopped-off boob isn't attractive. But if you mean for us to value as a personality, that's impossible, we don't know your personality. From our perspective, you are a stranger we have never met before, we know nothing about you, we only know you are great to look at.


The thing is, I'm not walking around thinking about my own boobs, or my ass, or my legs, usually. I'm just living my life and trying to feel fulfilled and competent as a human being, just like everyone else.

So if I have something important to say -- something related to work, where we are equal-level professionals -- and you're spending more time looking at parts of me I didn't have much control over to start with, and not paying attention to my thoughts and speech and my actual performance in my role as a professional... how can you NOT understand how that might feel demeaning? You have a job to do, just as I do; and instead of doing it, you're more focused on eye candy as if that's what i have to offer.

At the very least, it's unprofessional.

... if you're a stranger (as you seem to be assuming in your post), then whatever. I already said I gave an allowance because it's just reality that people will stare, and it's even funny at times; but if we're talking, I expect you to engage me and not my tits.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

Naia68 said:


> I don't like anyone looking at my boobs, or my butt, etc. IMO, it's extremely disrespectful. It comes across as if the person only cares about physical features. A human being is so much more than a body.
> 
> For any men who are accustomed to looking at women primarily in a physical/sexual manner, I challenge you (in a good way!) to stop doing that and start noticing other qualities in women. You might just surprise yourself on how much your relationships can improve. :wink:


Then I'd suggest you refrain from mini-skirts, bikini's, tight jeans, low cut shirts, or other sexually revealing clothing. As far as we are concerned, wear stuff like that and it's free game as long as we don't go super creepy about it.



Jennywocky said:


> Don't worry too much about it. I was just laughing because we started out discussing boobs, and now we're discussing butt and legs too, in short order.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Makes sense. Generally, I'd also argue that one would be distracting himself and not focusing on work if he were looking at parts of you. Such things default to 'leisure time mode'. It's less about respect and more about self-control and what needs to get finished when. If girls want to stare at me, do it when I don't have 15 minutes to get something done and I need you working on A, B, and C like....yesterday. Stare at me later if you like.


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## Naia68 (Jan 28, 2013)

Signify said:


> Then I'd suggest you refrain from mini-skirts, bikini's, tight jeans, low cut shirts, or other sexually revealing clothing. As far as we are concerned, wear stuff like that and it's free game as long as we don't go super creepy about it.


This is a valid point, I believe. I used to dress like that and think nothing of it. I wasn't trying to be provocative, just fashionable and/or comfortable. But then I started looking at the situation from a man's perspective and I had to admit that since men are primarily visual beings, it's not really fair for me to be putting on a visual show if I'm not looking for that kind of physical/sexual attention. So, I don't dress in a provocative manner anymore. This is something that women should consider, IMO. On the one hand, it's easy to say that men shouldn't ogle, but on the other hand, we need to acknowledge that reality.


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

Glancing or staring?

The odd glance can easily be forgiven, but staring? That's plain disrespectful.


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## EllieBear (Nov 8, 2012)

Signify said:


> For those of us "ass or leg" guys, can we broaden the discussion to include those features as well? I'll likely look at her legs before I even move up.


An ass is a lot easier to check out subtly...


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

One more thing to add: If it has been established I find you attractive/am romantically interested, I not only _want_ you to look at my chest, I'm more inclined to enjoy it.

I think women tend to be far more pressurized by unwanted attention than men are - not to mention that there's only so far a female can take her ogling - so I think it's understandable why she wouldn't want somebody she isn't interested in eying up the goods. It can be quite threatening.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Signify said:


> Then I'd suggest you refrain from mini-skirts, bikini's, tight jeans, low cut shirts, or other sexually revealing clothing. As far as we are concerned, wear stuff like that and it's free game as long as we don't go super creepy about it.


I don't think I ever disagreed with this (it's a two-way street as you note; plus I've already stated that realistically people will stare at each other when they see something they like and that just needs to be accepted), so I'm not sure why you're tossing it my way. 

But overall sounds like we're in the same ballpark.



Falling Leaves said:


> I think women tend to be far more pressurized by unwanted attention than men are - not to mention that there's only so far a female can take her ogling - so I think it's understandable why she wouldn't want somebody she isn't interested in eying up the goods. It can be quite threatening.


That's another problem. I do find I have to think ahead -- if I'm getting attention from someone I don't know and/or don't necessarily want attention from, I'm automatically going to think, "Okay, is this going to go anywhere I won't like, later?" It's very much like having to think about various routes to get to my car and other precautions. The guy might just be looking at my bod in passing, totally harmless; or he could be one of those guys that will try to pursue things further and who I don't want to have to deal with.

I don't think men feel nearly as vulnerable to attention from strangers, due to physical differences, as women do. It's just another part of the reality.


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## vikingbitch (Jul 17, 2012)

I don't really care. I used to mind quite a bit. However, I've come to accept the fact that I have DD breasts that stick out farther than the rest of my body. I can wear a turtleneck and make it look provocative. It's like trying not to look at an elephant in a classroom. As long as you're not being blatantly crass about it, my motto is live and let live. I've caught people of all genders and orientations looking at my breasts. I guess I'm desensitized to it.


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## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

Naia68 said:


> I don't like anyone looking at my boobs, or my butt, etc. IMO, it's extremely disrespectful. It comes across as if the person only cares about physical features. A human being is so much more than a body.
> 
> For any men who are accustomed to looking at women primarily in a physical/sexual manner, I challenge you (in a good way!) to stop doing that and start noticing other qualities in women. You might just surprise yourself on how much your relationships can improve. :wink:


What other qualities would I be able to observe in a stranger walking down the street? Good posture and gait? Just because someone looks at your boobs or butt doesn't mean thta's the _only_ thing they care about. Having a cute face is still the most important physical features to me.


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## milti (Feb 8, 2012)

Where I live, they do more than just look. Looking, glancing is not as violating as trying to feel your side while you're standing in a bus, for instance.

If it's someone I know and trust who is doing the checking out, like a friend, I'll probably be flattered and get flirty. But if it's some random lech, I will stare back and ask him what he's looking at. Or just fold my arms over my chest and walk away real quick. :dry:

Depends on where I am as well. At a night club or at the beach, yes, one can expect to get checked out. You don't really want to be checked out when you're in the waiting room of a hospital, for instance.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

idk it's not a big deal really. there is no formal ettiquette on this. just cause we may be flattered at catching someone glancing doesn't mean it's ok to ogle, you still have to not want to get caught.


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## abrayto (Feb 20, 2013)

Exactly. I think the flattery and appeal comes from a guy trying really hard not to look but he just can't help himself. If I guy is super confident in appraising my body and ogles me, it's a major turn off. But like I said before, if there is a glance I take it more as a compliment


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## Shinji Mimura (Aug 1, 2012)

Falling Leaves said:


> Also, men are always going to be *compelled *to look at breasts,


Mm, this is some dangerous wording, so I think some clarification is in order...

It's not so much that men are COMPELLED to look at breasts. People, regardless of gender, generally see somebody's entire body (or at least, what's in the visible spectrum) when they look at someone, and I'd wager that most people do take notes of that person's body, whether it be clothes, height, body size, so on and so forth.

Furthermore, you never want to say "men" because that, obviously, implies ALL men, which is not okay. Besides, every man is different. Putting aside, you know, gay guys, there are men who aren't interested in looking at clothed breasts or the breasts of girls they don't know. Furthermore, there are some guys who prefer smaller breasts, or very large breasts, or only prefer breasts of a girl of certain ethnic background, and so on and so forth.

So, yeah, I wouldn't really say there's a "compulsion".

That said, if you have large breasts that you didn't fat your way into, I'd probably give quite a few ganders, especially since most girls these days tend to enjoy low-cut tops, for reasons I can only guess...


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Shinji Mimura said:


> Mm, this is some dangerous wording, so I think some clarification is in order...
> 
> It's not so much that men are COMPELLED to look at breasts. People, regardless of gender, generally see somebody's entire body (or at least, what's in the visible spectrum) when they look at someone, and I'd wager that most people do take notes of that person's body, whether it be clothes, height, body size, so on and so forth.
> 
> ...


When I used the word men, I meant as in if you take a random generalizable sample of straight men from a population and conduct a study on the subject, the results will be that, generally, breasts are something which they are compelled (i.e. they have an inherent drive) to look at. Now, that isn't to say that every male in that sample is going to have answered the study as such, but more so that the average value suggests a certain trend.

Now given that the sample is truly representative of the general population (i.e. you didn't pick them up exclusively at a sex shop, they aren't all within a certain age category, etc etc), it is fair to say that, yes, men are compelled to look at breasts, HOWEVER, that isn't to say *all* men are compelled to look at breasts. Because when you are dealing with large populations, average values tend to be more workable and pragmatic then isolating each value in turn and making a qualitative decision. 

I'd be careful - you're reading offensive intent where there is absolutely is none. Yes, I understand not every male is inclined that way, which is precisely why I was careful to use absolutes in my statement. However, I am also confident enough that a strong trend exists I didn't feel the need to specify an application to a subset of the population (i.e. *some* men are compelled to...). 

So, although you are right to call me out on it, I stand by my statement that, generally, a compulsion does exist. And no, I do not mean that with any negative connotation at all; it is merely an objective observation.

I also did not make any comment on men being compelled to only see breasts when they see a woman, nor did I suggest the compulsion was ubiquitous across every breast they see. The term 'always' was referring to throughout history, and more to imply there isn't much we can do about it. I can see how that was unclear however.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Falling Leaves said:


> stuff...


I must say, I have ogled your signature quite a bit, it's delightful:laughing:


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## Eddy Kat (Sep 10, 2012)

I have never caught a guy staring at my chest. Not that I remember. 
I guess if Id catch one Ill feel uncomfortable. I always feel like that when they stare anyway.


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

L said:


> I must say, I have ogled your signature quite a bit, it's delightful:laughing:


Thank you. I picked it because, usually, I am a bit 'meh' to GIFs and things. This time however, I laughed out loud for about a minute :kitteh:

/derail.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Does the feeling apply to looking at their hair? I really like long, beautiful hair on a woman... :x Not any of that painted and/or iron/blowdried crap, though.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

*read entire thread*

Okay, looking at this thread, it looks like I don't do too bad ... I will admit that I will notice people while I am walking down the street ... I glance, but people are so far away that I see the whole body anyway and they are strangers so they are interesting (in how they look), but not that interesting (since I don't know them ... I may like their body, but there is no emotional connection) 

... As far as friends, I've checked out friends that I have crushes on, but it is not so much that their body is that great that I want to check them out ... it is that I like their personality so much that, even though I was originally not attracted to any part of their looks, I find myself being attracted to them ... That being said, since their personality (maybe I should mention this is in the past ... I don't have any crushes on my real life friends atm, I stopped crushing on them lol) is what made me attracted to them, when they talked I would shut up (unless I had something to add ... okay, I can be talkative with people I trust lol) and listen lol ... but I don't think my new found attraction to their body took away from my appreciation of their mind and their emotions/heart.

As far as an S.O. ... I won't hide that I like her breasts and I tend to tell her that they are amazing (but I also tell her that she is the hottest woman in the world and no one can compare ... I'm single now, but when I have an S.O. I mean)



That all being said, I have been single for awhile ... and feeling a little lonely (I need to get out more lol) ... so if there is a lot of cleavage, she has large breasts, she has something written on her shirt right where her breasts are, their are a lot of pretty colors and designs on her clothing just where her breasts are, or anything else that draws attention to the breasts ... I may notice them more and if they are far away I may glance twice 



So far, no one has said that I bothered them or said that they say me, so I don't know if they have noticed me or not or if I made them uncomfortable ... I hope I don't make people feel uncomfortable  ... I mean, I tell people that I'm awkward but I try to be awkward with silliness among friends who like awkwardness (because it is not really awkward to us)


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## Hal Jordan Prime (Dec 13, 2012)

abrayto said:


> Well, not to be egotistical, but I do know they are one of my better features so when I catch a guy looking I actually take it as a compliment. I don't like it when a guy unabashedly stares, espeically when we are talking. However, if it is a quick glance, it makes me feel very attractive and desirable. I sometimes wish they did it more. I do like that you want to respect women and you do need to try and read your audience a little bit but I bet a lot of women don't care as much as you think.


I do tend to stare at them unabashedly. It's like a reflex now. Can't help it. Then again restraint was never my best quality. 

But seriously, God gave boobs an aesthetic purpose for a reason


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## Fear Itself (Feb 20, 2013)

To a certain extent I don't mind. Honestly what is the harm in looking? However, it does kind of depend on the amount of time... long obvious staring from a stranger can get pretty uncomfortable.
It's worse when they then proceed to get extraordinarily close and say, "Nice tits!" :wink: while you're with your mother no less... But I assume those wonderfully awkward moments only happen to me...


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## Ramysa (Mar 22, 2012)

Yeah, it is flattering, up to a point. As long as it's just a glance and it's not the "drooling" kinda look ,or the look that makes me feel I'm in danger. Even I look :d , no harm in it, I guess :d


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## TriggerHappy923 (Dec 8, 2012)

Nayru said:


> My question to women:


It makes me nervous... if any part of my body was being observed closely or glanced at occasionally. If was even my elbow it just shoots off all kind of questions, "It there something wrong?" "What the heck is going through HIS mind?" For example, my elbow: "Does he think it's too knobby or... crusty? What the HECK!?!?!"

Imagine if some one kept staring at your head, like the episode of the Office, as a prank? It just makes you wonder.

It's fine if you like my body, but as a whole, then it doesn't make me want to pry your damn brain open and wonder what you are thinking.


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

I find it cute if it's someone I'm romantically involved with glancing (means he's attracted) but not gaping. When strangers stare, I get uncomfortable. Fortunately, I have very bright eyes so people tend to look at my face but there have been one or two awkward moments.


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## dejavu (Jun 23, 2010)

I haven't experienced much of it. I'm pretty flat chested and my figure is not very womanly. It's just sort of slim rather than curvaceous. As such, guys don't seem to stare at my body, or if they do, I never see it.

I have had guys leer at me though. When I know they are looking at me as if I'm some kinda piece of meat and you can tell they're having some lewd thoughts. I can't imagine ever enjoying that from a stranger. It's extremely uncomfortable. Lustful looks from a romantic interest are a different story.


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## Hal Jordan Prime (Dec 13, 2012)

KateMarie999 said:


> I find it cute if it's someone I'm romantically involved with glancing (means he's attracted) but not gaping. When strangers stare, I get uncomfortable. Fortunately, I have very bright eyes so people tend to look at my face but there have been one or two awkward moments.


Are you single?? roud:


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

puer_aeternus said:


> Are you single?? roud:


Nice try but I'm afraid not. You'll find a plethora of single ENFPs on our forum though, if you want to browse. :wink:


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

vikingbitch said:


> I don't really care. I used to mind quite a bit. However, I've come to accept the fact that I have DD breasts that stick out farther than the rest of my body. I can wear a turtleneck and make it look provocative. It's like trying not to look at an elephant in a classroom. As long as you're not being blatantly crass about it, my motto is live and let live. I've caught people of all genders and orientations looking at my breasts. I guess I'm desensitized to it.


Ditto. And I'll glance at people's breasts/butts/whatever too. _Glance. _Glancing is nearly involuntary. Staring and leering can, and should, be controlled.


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## vikingbitch (Jul 17, 2012)

chimeric said:


> Ditto. And I'll glance at people's breasts/butts/whatever too. _Glance. _Glancing is nearly involuntary. Staring and leering can, and should, be controlled.


Hell, I'll even admit to looking at other women's breasts and butts just to compare mine to them...


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## Villainous (Dec 31, 2012)

Women wouldn't show cleavage if they didn't want people to look at it. I'll unabashedly look at or maybe stare at boobs but will always look up to make eye contact and smile. I'll objectify women on occasion (and wouldn't mind it myself), but not without recognizing that they're a human at the same time (i.e. use it as a spice rather than the main course).

It's usually in the bedroom when I sometimes just want to use a woman as a fuck toy or have her use me as a fuck toy. The problem comes in when lots of guys take it overboard in a public setting.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

ISFjosue0098 said:


> They fall apart for people who give a high priority to sex. Sex is not very important to me, and I would therefore look for a girl who is either also not interested in it, or one who accepts *that I may or may not ever be sexually attracted to her*. (Although if she does want sex, I would definitely do it. Her happiness = my happiness)


Then that would mean that you are closer to the asexual end of the scale (from my understanding) and therefore do not represent the majority of the population that I was addressing. There are of course, exceptions to everything, and in this case it would be asexuality which is only like 2% of the population or something close to that. But, you call up 1,000 couples and the vast majority of them will agree that sex is needed in a relationship, which leads us back to "you cannot have love without lust" is true close to 98% of the time. 

And furthermore, sex doesn't have to have a high priority for them to fall apart, it's the loss of intimacy and the other parts of the relationship that makes sex go away and when people don't get the release they need, or the rush of chemicals from sex that they need, shit happens.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

L said:


> Then that would mean that you are closer to the asexual end of the scale (from my understanding) and therefore do not represent the majority of the population that I was addressing. There are of course, exceptions to everything, and in this case it would be asexuality which is only like 2% of the population or something close to that. But, you call up 1,000 couples and the vast majority of them will agree that sex is needed in a relationship, which leads us back to "you cannot have love without lust" is true close to 98% of the time.
> 
> And furthermore, sex doesn't have to have a high priority for them to fall apart, it's the loss of intimacy and the other parts of the relationship that makes sex go away and when people don't get the release they need, or the rush of chemicals from sex that they need, shit happens.


I guess I just don't understand it, since I've never felt that way... :/


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

ISFjosue0098 said:


> I guess I just don't understand it, since I've never felt that way... :/


Understand what? The need for sex?

OK, let me go about this in a different way then. Sex is for most people as emotional closeness is for you, in a way. Not the best analogy I will admit, and probably off by a bit of a margin, but, it gets you thinking in the right general direction.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

L said:


> Understand what? The need for sex?
> 
> OK, let me go about this in a different way then. Sex is for most people as emotional closeness is for you, in a way. Not the best analogy I will admit, and probably off by a bit of a margin, but, it gets you thinking in the right general direction.


I guess it makes sense... :/ Every day I become more convinced I will be a true foreveralone. :tongue:


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

ISFjosue0098 said:


> I guess it makes sense... :/ Every day I become more convinced I will be a true foreveralone. :tongue:


They have dating websites for asexuals, I don't know any but I know that they have them because I've read articles where people explaining asexuality said they met their spouse on there.

And I wouldn't worry about being foreveralone, I couldn't get a date between two dating websites on the most desperate month of the freaking year...


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## Infermiera (Mar 2, 2012)

Nayru said:


> My question to women:
> 
> *How do you feel about men glancing at your chest? Why do you feel that way?*
> 
> ...



Glancing at my chest? No I don't mind. I mean if I wear something which shows some part of my breasts or maybe some of my cleavage then I can't really fault men for glancing, can I? Staring, on the other hand scares me a lot.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

L said:


> They have dating websites for asexuals, I don't know any but I know that they have them because I've read articles where people explaining asexuality said they met their spouse on there.
> 
> And I wouldn't worry about being foreveralone, I couldn't get a date between two dating websites on the most desperate month of the freaking year...


Asexualitic.com is one, and I'm a member. You'd be surprised to hear that........ people use it like any other dating site. :dry: Honestly, I'm thinking of just hitting on any girl that even remotely interests me and then see which one is most compatible and move from there and deal with the whole sex issue later on. Worse that can happen is I have to lick carpet a few times a week. Not too bad of a compromise if she gives me lots of cuddles in return.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

When I was very overweight, and very young and insecure I loved it. It made me feel noticed, like hey there is SOMETHING good about me. Now I just think it's rude and I don't appreciate it. But I don't dress like I used to, so it doesn't happen often anymore.


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

ISFjosue0098 said:


> Asexualitic.com is one, and I'm a member. You'd be surprised to hear that........ people use it like any other dating site. :dry:


Wait.... people go to an asexual dating website to hook up for one night stands....?










That makes about as much sense as a.... 

I... I can't... I don't have anything for it...I'm sorry... I'm at a loss of analogies on this one...




> Honestly, I'm thinking of just hitting on any girl that even remotely interests me and then see which one is most compatible and move from there and deal with the whole sex issue later on. Worse that can happen is I have to lick carpet a few times a week. Not too bad of a compromise if she gives me lots of cuddles in return.


Best of luck.


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## Repus (Feb 10, 2010)

i catch girls checking out my package all the time, so looking at their boobs is fair game.


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## n.yumikim (Jan 20, 2012)

I look at women's breasts... So....


Empathizing?


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

yes, L. They do enjoy cuddling, etc

But there's also a surge of asexuals in the gay community, recently some have said the LGBT community 'mistreats' them because we don't want to date them.

*no words*


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## Seranova (Mar 1, 2013)

_While I know men I do not know will look anyway since they are noticeable, I don't like when they have staring contests with them. It makes me feel like they are looking at me like a piece of meat and uncomfortable. I would think that wanting their eyes on my face while speaking is not too much of a want. Sometimes saying something like "So, how's the conversation going with my chest? Did it have something cool to say?" usually gets them to take the hint to stop. Now...if it was a man I liked in more than a platonic way or was with romantically, well, they can look a bit longer._ *chuckles*


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I get offended by it and immediately think less of the person doing it, because I assume he is objectifying me.

The act of looking will be interpreted by each individual according to her own value system. Some will feel flattered, and some will feel dehumanized by it, like I do.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Signify said:


> Then I'd suggest you refrain from mini-skirts, bikini's, tight jeans, low cut shirts, or other sexually revealing clothing. As far as we are concerned, wear stuff like that and it's free game as long as we don't go super creepy about it.


No. We should be able to wear whatever we like, whatever makes us feel confident and comfortable, and still expect a basic level of respect as human beings. We should even be able to go naked, if we feel like it, without being ogled or objectified. It isn't my responsibility as a woman to cover myself up just because some shallow men feel wrongly entitled when I do what I want with my own body. They are the ones at fault. If they really respected women as equals, they would have more self-control. 



Naia68 said:


> This is a valid point, I believe. I used to dress like that and think nothing of it. I wasn't trying to be provocative, just fashionable and/or comfortable. But then I started looking at the situation from a man's perspective and I had to admit that since men are primarily visual beings, it's not really fair for me to be putting on a visual show if I'm not looking for that kind of physical/sexual attention. So, I don't dress in a provocative manner anymore. This is something that women should consider, IMO. On the one hand, it's easy to say that men shouldn't ogle, but on the other hand, we need to acknowledge that reality.


You should still get to dress however you want. It isn't any woman's responsibility to dress a certain way for someone else. Men are the ones doing the ogling, and they should know better regardless of our fashion tastes. Our clothes don't make them ogle. Their lack of respect is what makes them feel entitled.



Diphenhydramine said:


> She had a good body. What did she expect? Walk down the road in a bikini and all the men are going to go "Oh, I respect you too much, so I'll avert my gaze until you've walked past." LOL NO If you wear clothing like that, you are inviting people to look at you, in the same way if I walked around wearing a giant inflatable dick on my head, I'm inviting people to look at me.
> 
> However, I understand it's a bit different for women who don't look intentionally any noticeably different from anyone else. Why not, though. It's just a fact of life. If someone has a nice ass, why shouldn't I take a peek? So long as I'm not standing there drooling and fawning over it. I don't live in a Wahhabist country and I enjoy that women don't walk around wrapped in black towels and I'm pretty sure most women enjoy that too.


I am glad we don't live in a Wahhabist country, but when men tell us that it is our fault they ogle us and disrespect us, when they say it is our fault because we aren't wearing enough, and when they act like lust-crazed animals who must blame us for their choice to objectify us, they are making one of the same major mistakes that Wahhabis make. The cultures that require women to remain covered from head to toe justify it by saying it is about keeping women safe from unwanted male attention, but it is actually about control. So is what you are doing by treating women with less respect for not covering up our bodies.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

snail said:


> I am glad we don't live in a Wahhabist country, but when men tell us that it is our fault they ogle us and disrespect us, when they say it is our fault because we aren't wearing enough, and when they act like lust-crazed animals who must blame us for their choice to objectify us, they are making one of the same major mistakes that Wahhabis make. The cultures that require women to remain covered from head to toe justify it by saying it is about keeping women safe from unwanted male attention, but it is actually about control. So is what you are doing by treating women with less respect for not covering up our bodies.


 Well, I don't agree with that. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, "Objectification" occurs when people are treated _only_ as sexual objects. If I see someone good looking in the street and think to myself "Yea, they're good looking, I will look at them for a while," I'm not treating them solely as a sexual object since there's no evidence of their personality or other facets. When that evidence appears I will examine it too. If I am having a conversation with someone and I think "Wow, this person is cool," but not thinking about their sexual appeal, I am hardly committing a form of "personality objectification."

As it stands, I agree that people shouldn't be "ogled" at, largely because it's rude. But if someone's appearance is out of the ordinary, they will attract peoples attention -- and I stated this (perhaps badly) in a nonsexual manner. Extraordinary sightings are usually treated extraordinarily, whether it be a man in a suit in a swimming pool or a woman in a bikini in a shopping mall. That's not to do with "fault" or "sexual objectification" either.

Now what I DO disagree with is the difference between what I view as sexual objectification, vs appreciation of beauty (which is always in the eye of the beholder, really.) Wolf-whistling for example. Though I can imagine you view them as one and the same.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Diphenhydramine said:


> Well, I don't agree with that. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, "Objectification" occurs when people are treated _only_ as sexual objects. If I see someone good looking in the street and think to myself "Yea, they're good looking, I will look at them for a while," I'm not treating them solely as a sexual object since there's no evidence of their personality or other facets. When that evidence appears I will examine it too. If I am having a conversation with someone and I think "Wow, this person is cool," but not thinking about their sexual appeal, I am hardly committing a form of "personality objectification."
> 
> As it stands, I agree that people shouldn't be "ogled" at, largely because it's rude. But if someone's appearance is out of the ordinary, they will attract peoples attention -- and I stated this (perhaps badly) in a nonsexual manner. Extraordinary sightings are usually treated extraordinarily, whether it be a man in a suit in a swimming pool or a woman in a bikini in a shopping mall. That's not to do with "fault" or "sexual objectification" either.
> 
> Now what I DO disagree with is the difference between what I view as sexual objectification, vs appreciation of beauty (which is always in the eye of the beholder, really.) Wolf-whistling for example. Though I can imagine you view them as one and the same.


There are varying degrees of objectification, and at its very worst people are treated _only_ as objects. At its other levels, people are treated _partially_ like objects. It doesn't have to be _total_ objectification in order to be objectification. I don't really care how much you are objectifying someone. It is still wrong. If you only measure bad behavior by its most extreme form, then of course you will always feel justified in treating people badly as long as you aren't treating them the very worst that you can imagine.


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## Sovereign (Aug 19, 2011)

Simply viewing or apprising someone in a sexual context does not constitute objectification. Objectification occurs when a person is viewed as an object SOLELY for use (in whatever way). Since our physical bodies are part of us, they will be viewed and judged by others. In fact, if you have breasts and are in my general age-based dating pool, I will probably appraise them. I'm not a creep about it (and you probably won't notice unless you're particularly aware), but it will happen.

If this offends you, I'll grab an ass from around here somewhere for you to kiss. lol. That's being offended at our naturally-evolved human reproductive instincts. To clarify, I can certainly understand if a person is uncomfortable when someone makes this process obvious and awkward; that can even be intimidating. However, again, looking and judging will occur, obvious or not. 

As for "other levels" of objectification, I call slippery slope. If there's no clear line to draw, there's no complaining when people cross it.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

snail said:


> There are varying degrees of objectification, and at its very worst people are treated _only_ as objects. At its other levels, people are treated _partially_ like objects. It doesn't have to be _total_ objectification in order to be objectification. I don't really care how much you are objectifying someone. It is still wrong. If you only measure bad behavior by its most extreme form, then of course you will always feel justified in treating people badly as long as you aren't treating them the very worst that you can imagine.


 Yes, it's true, but whether or not you consider a thing at all, if it lacks the essential properties. For example, robbery has several elements, one of which is the desire to keep the thing you take (if you intend on giving it back it isn't robbery, even if all other elements are met.) 

What I mean is that in my view objectification requires the standard of totality, i.e. one must view somebody as a sexual object and not as any other thing.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Diphenhydramine said:


> Yes, it's true, but whether or not you consider a thing at all, if it lacks the essential properties. For example, robbery has several elements, one of which is the desire to keep the thing you take (if you intend on giving it back it isn't robbery, even if all other elements are met.)
> 
> What I mean is that in my view objectification requires the standard of totality, i.e. one must view somebody as a sexual object and not as any other thing.


I define it differently. I think any degree of objectification counts, and that it is possible for a person to be partially objectified if s/he is seen as both an object and something else. 

Therefore, I take offense to things that you probably don't feel guilty for doing.

There is a clear line where something becomes objectification. It is when a person is seen even partly as an object, even if s/he is simultaneously seen as part subject.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

snail said:


> I define it differently. I think any degree of objectification counts, and that it is possible for a person to be partially objectified if s/he is seen as both an object and something else.
> 
> Therefore, I take offense to things that you probably don't feel guilty for doing.
> 
> There is a clear line where something becomes objectification. It is when a person is seen even partly as an object, even if s/he is simultaneously seen as part subject.


 What's the justification for that?

edit - I will post mine in a bit, Im just going to 7/11.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

It used to aggravate me but now I just find it amusing for some reason. I'm likely to laugh, maybe because the whole scene just reminds me of some ridiculous comedy about horny stumblefucks.


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## Snoot (Mar 5, 2013)

Honestly, they're there. You'd be blind not to notice them. People are bound to notice them at some point so what the hell do I care about a passing glance. My eyes get drawn to features I find pleasing on a person. Doesn't mean I see them as a mere object to lust after.
Now if it's more than just an appreciative passing glance, yeah I'll call them out on it.

What if someone has a massive nose fetish, if they look at your nose you wouldn't even know that they're thinking ZOMG DAT NOSE.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

edit: I'm not sure if anyone is capable of following this; I will think about it more today, since it's the first time I've offered a reasoned opinion on my views of objectification.

My justification re objectification is as follows.

Objectification is the viewing of a person as an 'object' i.e. as something _for use. _In the first instance we do this every day in our social relations and even feminists do it too -- if I go on a bus and buy my ticket I am objectifying the bus driver as a utility. He is also doing the same; I am paying his wage. These social relationships are formed in any kind of society that has the separation of labour because people can use one another for a specific purpose. Nobody can disagree that an exchange of labour is a bad form of objectification because it's only a form of utility that doesn't apply any judgment to anyone, in its most base form (any judgment is added afterwards and not part of the former process.)

However this enters a new realm when we go into sexual objectification; which is essentially the act of viewing another human being as an object we use for sex. This is plainly inappropriate in its totality for the following reasons:
(a) because this is not an actual social exchange (and we don't want it to be, either; most people are against prostitution), therefore it's not part of the former process of exchange of utility
(b) since this is not a form of utility, we are basing our social relations with another person on their use to us as a person, rather than as a provider of a specific utility. Essentially this is a master slave relationship; by objectifying someone you can say "I can use you ... and you will receive nothing in exchange," or more potently; "You exist for me to use."
(c) lastly because when we objectify people in ordinary exchange (my banker, my accountant, my bus driver, et al) we don't make any commentary on their social position. The absence of a utility-exchange in a sexual-objectification scenario is a direct commentary on someone's social position as being exclusively as a use to you.

We agree, everyone virtually, that in that form, objectification is bad. However that form of objectification requires totality for the following reasons:
(a) it must necessarily be total because it must exclude the possibility of some form of equal relationship. Objectification is wrong because it subordinates one person to the use of another; the further that type of subordination is reduced the less wrong it becomes. 
(b) the relation of objectification is one of master slave; "You exist to be used." the master-slave relation is one also of totality. It becomes dissimilar when its totality is reduced.

Now, when we objectify people on the street, we are making only a comment about their sexual appeal. Only. Since sexual appeal is necessarily only a limited part of a person, it's never possible for us to enter the realm of totality. What this means is that we are looking only at a part of a person; while at face value this appears to be very bad, what it really means is that we haven't yet considered their other aspects. 

It's possible for sexual objectification to exist in its totality in a similar way; in Britain we have a popular tabloid with "page 3" and every day there's a new naked girl on page 3. This is a form of objectification because it's meaning is "this person exists for you to use to gain sexual pleasure." Compared to people observing attractiveness in their every day lives, there's no form of utility-exchange there. if I see an attractive woman on the street and think "she has super nice legs" -- this is not a form of total objectification because I haven't made any comment about any other part of her personality; intrinsically I am not making her an object because there is no suggestion of "to be used by me..."

Now I accept this as a very loose form of prejudice.

It's actually important in social relations that we're able to view people as partial objects, i.e. with a prejudice, because prejudgments are the glue of a healthy society. I don't care whether it's natural or not; that's not the point. The point is that if humans must have some general homogenities and uniformities otherwise the social relations between people will break down into a John Galt free for all. Complete uniformity is bad because we aren't ants and have individual desires. Total objectification actually moves towards this complete uniformity direction because we view people as having no individual desires that are more important than our personal intent to use. Partial objectification is good because it
(a) Enforces a level of healthy uniformity and homogenity
(b) Does not imply a relationship of master-slave "I use you." 

That's about as articulate as I can make it at 0323.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

snail said:


> No. We should be able to wear whatever we like, whatever makes us feel confident and comfortable, and still expect a basic level of respect as human beings. We should even be able to go naked, if we feel like it, without being ogled or objectified. It isn't my responsibility as a woman to cover myself up just because some shallow men feel wrongly entitled when I do what I want with my own body. They are the ones at fault. If they really respected women as equals, they would have more self-control.


No, I disagree. Just as you have a right to wear what you want, we have a right to look at what we want. And to call something wrong, shallow, and lacking of self-control just because you don't like it is far too subjective. You don't get to do as you please and then tell people how they should treat you because of it. That's arrogance and entitlement. That is not how equality works.


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## qingdom (Apr 5, 2011)

I wonder... when Femmebots and Gynoids becomes a reality with the capability of being self aware, I wonder if they'll feel such pressure and unpleasantness from living organisms oogling at their assets since they can mold their physical self anatomically incorrectly by artificial enhancements and methods.

Cuz I mean.... Look at Robots and Androids... who is going to look at their lower section unless visualized as an oversized dildo or vibrator.... 

What else matters? Storage capacity? Software? Dual, Quad, Hexa, Octa, Deca-core? Single purpose, Multi purpose?

In the end, they're just a machine.... who knows... perhaps being self aware, they'll think of something as "silly humans."


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## n.yumikim (Jan 20, 2012)

Breasts are a simply another part of the amazing female body. Demonizing breasts being looked at in general, favoring instead that people look elsewhere, is self-contradictory to me. Next thing you know, we'll be asking people NOT look at our faces, with the line of reasoning that – because our personalities are what matters, not the superficial appearance of our faces – we are being "objectified" when our faces are being looked at.

People can have sex with your face as much as they can with your breasts as much as they can with your vagina as much as they can anywhere else. To hold a "this is objectifying" standard to one body part and not another, when no such standard distinctions exist in corollary, is inconsistent.

I suppose in everyday applications, what I'm trying to say is: unless someone is spending more time looking at your breasts than your face, chill. Otherwise, wear less boob exposing clothing. Do not yell loudly and expect that no one listen; similarly, do not expose breasts and demand that no one look to them.


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## Pirate (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm going to point out, that my looking at [insert thing X] is not objectifying [X]. I will also point out that objectification is not inherently bad. If ghandi was universally held up as what everyone should aspire to be, that would be objectification, but it would likely result in a much better world. There is no mutual exchange there either. Thats an extreme example, obviously, but it makes my point. This debate (parts of it anyhow) objectifies women (as a group) because it implies that, women have no impact on the situation except in the way that others use them (as sexual objects) when in reality simply changing ones manner of dress would go a long way to reducing the frequency with which one is objectified in a sexual manner, should that be what one desires. It is not (realisticly) always preventable, but what is? I'm with n.yumikim, double standards suck and beyond that objectification is not only a natural way of processing information, but the whole objectification thing is getting out of hand.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm a somewhat small-breasted person, so I honestly feel thrilled when I catch someone glancing at them. xD


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## Faiora (May 23, 2010)

Personally - and I suppose this could be a personality thing, because I'm very "N" in some ways...

I don't even notice. 

If I'm walking with friends and happen to be wearing something lower-cut, they often start pointing out to me how many people are looking at my boobs. When my sister's with me (she wears more cleavage-y things than I do), apparently everyone looks at her boobs, but I don't notice unless I'm really paying attention. 

Honestly, I just have no idea what's going on around me half the time. 
I'm in my own little world.


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## LyricalWhip (Jul 7, 2012)

Shimmy Shimmy Hunny! haha.....

I'm usually aware when I "let the girls out to play"...or at least let 'em breathe haha....ya know? Cleavage is a wonderful thing. I find it beautiful. 

In the right context, I find it a compliment --ego booster haha. As long as it isn't "creepy" or some "power play" of some sort. I can sense that too haha....


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Signify said:


> No, I disagree. Just as you have a right to wear what you want, we have a right to look at what we want. And to call something wrong, shallow, and lacking of self-control just because you don't like it is far too subjective. You don't get to do as you please and then tell people how they should treat you because of it. That's arrogance and entitlement. That is not how equality works.


I suppose it depends on how you define "rights." Yes, you can _legally_ make a woman feel uncomfortable by simultaneously lusting after her and disrespecting her for something she doesn't deserve to be disrespected for, but that doesn't mean it is something _good_ that you should be doing. It isn't some kind of privilege you deserve as a reward for being male. If there is any arrogance and entitlement involved, it is on the part of the man who _arrogantly_ thinks he is _entitled_ to use a woman's body without her consent for the purpose of sexually exciting himself.

A woman's clothes are not an automatic invitation to gawk. It is rude no matter what she is wearing, and all little boys should be taught better manners when they are young so they don't grow up to be chauvinistic jerks who think it is their place to dictate how women ought to dress. One person's clothing is no justification for another person's bad behavior.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

Dressing or acting in an otherwise socially maladjusted manner in a public place invites people to behave towards you in a different manner, yes.


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## Pirate (Jan 2, 2013)

it works both ways. If I'm wearing a spedo, wether I consent to you ogling me or not, I am making it more likely and that is my problem, not yours. Just as it would be absurd for me to get offended by attention attracted by my spedo, it is similarly absurd for a women to simultaneously wear a shirt thats so low cut she risks falling out of it to be offended when she attrscts the attention of people, notably men (the people such a shirt was likely designed to attract the attention of, btw) If a woman ASKS the people not to, and is offended when they don't, then at least the potential for a the offence to be justified is present, but not once have I ever seen a woman (or man) do this. They skip the reason stage and go straight to offence and entitlement. Its not even as if one has any way of knowing why some stranger is looking where they are. They could be zoning out. They could simply find you pleasing to look at, without giving any thought to using what they see as a way of getting off.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

An equal society is one where the actions of individuals are measured against a collective will that each individual has an equal share in forming; not a type of John Galt society where everyone lives in an untouchable bubble.


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## Playful Proxy (Feb 6, 2012)

snail said:


> I suppose it depends on how you define "rights." Yes, you can _legally_ make a woman feel uncomfortable by simultaneously lusting after her and disrespecting her for something *she doesn't deserve* to be disrespected for, but that doesn't mean it is something _good_ that you should be doing. It isn't some kind of privilege you deserve as a reward for being male. If there is any arrogance and entitlement involved, it is on the part of the man who _arrogantly_ thinks he is _entitled_ to use a woman's body without her consent for the purpose of sexually exciting himself.
> 
> A woman's clothes are not an automatic invitation to gawk. It is rude no matter what she is wearing, and all little boys should be taught better manners when they are young so they don't grow up to be chauvinistic jerks who think it is their place to dictate how women ought to dress. One person's clothing is no justification for another person's bad behavior.


I don't remember saying I was entitled to the woman's body. The entitlement comes from the fact that you somehow think that you deserve (as you said yourself) to not be thought of that way when wearing whatever you please. Women will be objectified just like everyone else. For me, a bus driver is someone who I pay and will get me from point A to point B. I don't care about him, his home life, his family. I just want him to drive me. My waitress is someone I don't care about either. I pay her to serve me food. Her only importance to me is to serve me food. Why does she or the bus driver deserve for me to care? Simply because it breaks your own code of morals? I wasn't aware you were allowed to impose your own moral codes on the rest of the world and that everyone was therefore forced to abide.

In that same way, a woman I don't know wearing a skimpy skirt and low cut shirt is someone normally that would have no worth to me since they were a stranger, but if she is attractive, she then becomes eye candy. She benefits me to look at her. She likely does not even know that I'm looking at her, so why should I be forced to deprive myself of something enjoyable when it hurts no one aside from offending some random female on the internet? Unless I feel like striking up a conversation and seeing if her personality is worth anything, she objectively is only worth eye candy. That's not belittling of her as a female. I do it to everyone based on their worth, so don't the hoards of femi-nazi's come after me with pitchforks and torches. A person I don't know is worth nothing to me. And for the rest of the world, it is the same. The difference between our two arguments is that you are expecting action of another group of people that takes away enjoyment from them to satisfy your own moral conscious. I'm saying if it does not hurt anyone aside from your personal ego, there is nothing wrong with it. I am asking nothing of females. I am telling them their actions have consequences and if they don't want the consequences, they should not take said actions.

You are expecting the world to conform to you so you don't have to do anything to change, while I'm saying you should change so you get the expected result.


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## C3P0meetsData (Mar 3, 2013)

I'm okay with it. 
Like, I'm not okay with them being stared at by a certified CREEPER.
But I didn't get this bra for like 40 bucks at Victoria's Secret and wear this low cut shirt just for them to be completely ignored.:wink:


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## ForsakenMe (Aug 30, 2010)

I feel indifferent to it. As long as the man in question doesn't smile like a creep, or won't even budge his eyes from my chest when I talk to him, or God forbid reaches out to touch them, I honestly don't mind it too much. A casual glance here and there, whatever, it happens. I had this happen to me this past year and it was pretty lulzy.


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## n.yumikim (Jan 20, 2012)

Pirate said:


> it works both ways. If I'm wearing a spedo, wether I consent to you ogling me or not, I am making it more likely and that is my problem, not yours. Just as it would be absurd for me to get offended by attention attracted by my spedo, it is similarly absurd for a women to simultaneously wear a shirt thats so low cut she risks falling out of it to be offended when she attrscts the attention of people, notably men (the people such a shirt was likely designed to attract the attention of, btw) If a woman ASKS the people not to, and is offended when they don't, then at least the potential for a the offence to be justified is present, but not once have I ever seen a woman (or man) do this. They skip the reason stage and go straight to offence and entitlement. Its not even as if one has any way of knowing why some stranger is looking where they are. They could be zoning out. They could simply find you pleasing to look at, without giving any thought to using what they see as a way of getting off.



Awesome speedo analog is awesome.


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## EmileeArsenic (Jun 8, 2012)

There's no blanket assessment for me. If I like you, I don't mind, and if I like you as more than a friend, I'm, of course, flattered. On the other hand, it does make me feel dirty when a gross old guy stares at my chest obviously, like they so like to do. It's like, yes, I'm aware that I have boobs, but at the same time, it's really easy to make me feel uncomfortable, if you make too much of a show of looking at them. I expect a glance here and there, that's part of human's natural eye movement. Everyone does it, but it's more of a HOW than an IF for me... if that makes any sense.


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## leeleemh99 (Feb 25, 2013)

Well how long is a glance??? because I feel like a glance is one second and thats normal.


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## Faiora (May 23, 2010)

bakanunu said:


> You have every right to push the guy in any clubs you go. He is being a pervert. You did a great...no excellent job in making him embarrassed.


Thanks for the validation... 
I'm typically quite anti-violence, so pushing the guy seemed a bit extreme.
I mean, they're just boobs. But they're _my_ boobs. You know?


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## Out0fAmmo (Nov 30, 2010)

Faiora said:


> Thanks for the validation...
> I'm typically quite anti-violence, so pushing the guy seemed a bit extreme.
> I mean, they're just boobs. But they're _my_ boobs. You know?


No, you did the right thing. Grabbing a woman's boobs without explicit consent is sexual assault.


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## Kyora (Mar 17, 2013)

Well, glancing is okay, staring is not and saying weird comments is certainly not okay xD Well I always get a tad bit self-conscious when I catch men looking at my breast... so I always try to cover them... I know it's supposed to be a compliment but anyway... and My ex used to catch every boy looking at them and he would thumb up... so I'm quite used to... SO I would say I would mind if it's more than a glance =D


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## bakanunu (Mar 17, 2013)

Faiora said:


> Thanks for the validation...
> I'm typically quite anti-violence, so pushing the guy seemed a bit extreme.
> I mean, they're just boobs. But they're _my_ boobs. You know?


It wasn't extreme. Good thing you did not call the police and give that douc** of a guy a sexual assault case. If he does not know how to respect women he deserve to be humiliated.


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## Jane the Ripper (Mar 19, 2013)

What man would glance (much less look) at my breasts!? Only a pedophile.

But really, I consider myself a lolita. I am petite and all the clothes fit me like a doll. 

Think: A woman that looks like a girl.

I dress conservatively as well, and yet, men still stare. 

Now, how do I feel? Well, let's put it this way:

M: *thinking* "Wow, nice rack!"
W: *thinking* "..."
W: "What are you looking at?"
M: "Your boobs"
W: "Well, keep looking. That's as much as you're going to get."

Harsh, maybe. Hilarious, indeed. 

I have things far more important to worry about than the carnal fantasies of the common person.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

I have to be cool with it since I'm prone to glancing at boobs myself. Besides, if I wear a low-cut and/or form-fitting top, I'm kind of showing my figure off so it would be silly to expect nobody to look.

However, prolonged stares are almost always disgusting.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Jane the Ripper said:


> What man would glance (much less look) at my breasts!? Only a pedophile.


I just can't help but think any man who may become your partner being a pedophile by default.
May I ask why you think they may be down that line by looking at you?
Atm i'm making the assumption from your description as petite that you are a smaller women so smaller chest and you think men who look at small chested women are akin to those who look at the prepubescent bodies of little girls?

I think Here in Aus they actually tried to implement a law that said all Australian porn was only to allow women who had large chests to combat pedophilia because small chested women are practically little girls who haven't gone through puberty yet.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Kyora said:


> Well, glancing is okay, staring is not and saying weird comments is certainly not okay xD Well I always get a tad bit self-conscious when I catch men looking at my breast... so I always try to cover them... I know it's supposed to be a compliment but anyway... and My ex used to catch every boy looking at them and he would thumb up... so I'm quite used to... SO I would say I would mind if it's more than a *glance *=D



The nerve! I can see why he's an ex! Was it him that would thumbs up or the guy checking you out? Either way, that's demeaning! I'm really sorry that happened (_*Someone *_needs to apologize)

I've had guys catch me catching them checking out my friends, and they are thoroughly embarrassed (as they should be). I death stare them down so bad:dry:

Also "glance" is just the right word to use. Anything above _Glance _on the Checking-People-Out scale is intolerable.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

leeleemh99 said:


> Well how long is a glance??? because I feel like a glance is one second and thats normal.


It's a really subjective term, but you'll know it when you see it.

Heh, I'm so helpful.


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## KilljoyKoala (Mar 22, 2013)

It's a neutral---> dislike situation. 
I don't like people feeling they are entitled to sexually observe my body. At the same time, I don't know why people are staring at my boobs.. I stare at boobs and I'm a heterosexual. It also depends on the person.
The other day an older man at the train stop kept trying to flirt with me and making it obvious that he kept glancing at my tits. I thought it was very rude, and I had to try very hard not to punch him. 
One of my best friends likes to make note of what my boobs are doing- sagging, flopping about, looking unusually perky. So obviously he takes notice of them a lot. But I know he's not viewing me as a sexual object, so it doesn't bother me. 

So, to me it's like.. Everyone stares at boobs at some point. It's not like you're going to be unaware if someone has big or small titties, even if you don't focus on them much. They're just a body part. But at the same time, I don't like perverts oogling at my chest.


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## Kyora (Mar 17, 2013)

Fern said:


> The nerve! I can see why he's an ex! Was it him that would thumbs up or the guy checking you out? Either way, that's demeaning! I'm really sorry that happened (_*Someone *_needs to apologize)
> 
> I've had guys catch me catching them checking out my friends, and they are thoroughly embarrassed (as they should be). I death stare them down so bad:dry:
> 
> Also "glance" is just the right word to use. Anything above _Glance _on the Checking-People-Out scale is intolerable.


Well actually the one who would thumb up was my ex ... Well I was angry because it's like saying stare at them, I don't care in the end they are mine ^^', but I couldn't say anything so I let that pass over me. Actually, he is not my ex because of that ^^' Well thank you for apologizing, but you didn't need to =D 

You death stare them? xD I can imagine how they are feeling xD but that's nice of you to protect your friends =D


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## Faiora (May 23, 2010)

Wellsy said:


> I think Here in Aus they actually tried to implement a law that said all Australian porn was only to allow women who had large chests to combat pedophilia because small chested women are practically little girls who haven't gone through puberty yet.


Here in Canada, child pornography laws apparently disallow animated pornography with prepubescents as well. I see where they're coming from, but the problem is there's (for example) Japanese animated porn with flat-chested women who could be kids or adults. You're potentially not allowed to watch animated-flat-chested-Japanese-woman porn because of that! 

I'm not sure the law even makes sense. On one hand, they've shown that, at least in some cases, people with that particular fetish become more dependent on their fetish for sexual gratification and may require more and more realism/extremeness as this progresses. 

On the other hand, I'd rather know that pedophiles have animated porn to keep them busy, and to provide an option other than the real thing. >.>

That was a bit off-topic, so: If you're showing off your boobs in public (low-cut tops, etc), I think you should expect glances. I mean, it's not polite to stare, but you're putting them out there, they look nice, and they deserve some attention, right?

Personally I want to spend time looking at things I like. I stop and look at scenery... flowers... trees... but anything attached to a person (including if they're carrying flowers, for example) I'm likely to take a brief look at and then keep to myself because it's not my business. But it doesn't keep me from taking that first look. And maybe sneaking another if the flowers are really pretty. I'm not likely to look longer unless I accompany it by "those flowers are beautiful!" but I wouldn't do that with boobs in a general public scenario (because I am aware that implications might be assumed). I would actually do that at the fetish ball. Pretty sure I've told a girl her boobs were awesome, before  but it's all about the setting and the crowd, in that case, and at the fetish ball, everyone's sharing and displaying the things they love about themselves. ^_^
So there you go.


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## glisten (Dec 20, 2010)

Well, first, to answer the original question... It depends on who's looking. If it's my significant other, or even a friend who I've known for a long time, I don't mind it. If it's my significant other, I generally enjoy it. But if I catch a stranger do it, it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. I'd agree with everyone else and err on the side of caution 



Diphenhydramine said:


> Come on, if someone walks past me who I'll never see again, if she has nice boobs I am going to 'look at them' -- I won't stare because its awkward in my culture, but not because I really care. I check out most women who I see who look attractive. A woman walked past me the other day in a bikini when I was going home from work. I'm sure she saw me checking her out (briefly enough.) Why not? Why should _I_ care?
> 
> She had a good body. What did she expect? Walk down the road in a bikini and all the men are going to go "Oh, I respect you too much, so I'll avert my gaze until you've walked past." LOL NO If you wear clothing like that, you are inviting people to look at you, in the same way if I walked around wearing a giant inflatable dick on my head, I'm inviting people to look at me.
> 
> ...


This is so chauvinistic that it made me nauseous. 

First of all, a woman who is wearing a bikini is inviting everyone to look at her in the same way as someone walking around with a _giant dick on their head_? All she's doing is wearing a bathing suit. You know, women do like to wear bathing suits in the summer! And it's not for men to look at us, though maybe that's why some women do it... There are many different reasons, like keeping cool, or tanning, or feeling the sun on our skin. It is not an invitation to stare! Walking around with a giant inflatable phallus on one's head is ADDING something to oneself, thus it may very well be an invitation to stare. Walking around in a bikini is simply walking around in one's own skin. And this is why I hate going to public pools, beaches, etc... Because it makes me extremely uncomfortable, sometimes to the point where it incapacitates me, to be stared at that way by men I don't know.

And why should you care? Because it might make her feel uncomfortable. It might make her feel like a sexual object rather than a human being. I have been the subject of male glances, stares, cat calls, etc, etc, and I, for one, can tell you that I hate it. A LOT of women do. There are some women who love that kind of attention, and more power to them, but it is not okay to assume that every woman is okay with it. 

Why shouldn't they feel complimented? Because sometimes it's old men who are staring at us. Men twice, three times, even four times our own age. And, more importantly, not all women take it as a compliment that someone desires them solely for their physical form. I know I don't. Once I get to know someone romantically, I have no problem with them appreciating my body, but when I notice a complete stranger looking at me in a lusty way it makes me feel sick. I don't care how attractive the guy is. 

We women enjoy that we aren't "wrapped in black towels" because we like our bodies to be free. And, again, because I can't stress this point enough, not for men. Women do not exist for the sexual enjoyment of men. 

It is not NEARLY as common for women to check out men as it is for men to check out women. Women are taught from a young age that our most important task in life is to be beautiful, and not even for ourselves, but for the sake of men. We live in a patriarchal society where the objectification of the female body is the norm, and where women are portrayed as creatures who are subservient for men. Women are valued for their looks above all else... Even the most powerful women in our society are scrutinized based on their appearance. This has led to a society where men feel that they DESERVE to look at a "nice ass" or a "nice rack" because, as you said, "why not? It's there!" 

Women do not exist for men.
Women's bodies do not exist solely for male pleasure.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

glisten said:


> This is so chauvinistic that it made me nauseous.


 blah blah blah



glisten said:


> First of all, a woman who is wearing a bikini is inviting everyone to look at her in the same way as someone walking around with a _giant dick on their head_? All she's doing is wearing a bathing suit. You know, women do like to wear bathing suits in the summer! And it's not for men to look at us, though maybe that's why some women do it... There are many different reasons, like keeping cool, or tanning, or feeling the sun on our skin. It is not an invitation to stare! Walking around with a giant inflatable phallus on one's head is ADDING something to oneself, thus it may very well be an invitation to stare. Walking around in a bikini is simply walking around in one's own skin. And this is why I hate going to public pools, beaches, etc... Because it makes me extremely uncomfortable, sometimes to the point where it incapacitates me, to be stared at that way by men I don't know.
> 
> And why should you care? Because it might make her feel uncomfortable. It might make her feel like a sexual object rather than a human being. I have been the subject of male glances, stares, cat calls, etc, etc, and I, for one, can tell you that I hate it. A LOT of women do. There are some women who love that kind of attention, and more power to them, but it is not okay to assume that every woman is okay with it.
> 
> ...


 Ok. This is a long post and there's only two questions which I think you should answer, which I bolded, if the rest uninterests you. 

Firstly: You make an interesting qualifier. "Solely" for male pleasure. I agree. I don't believe women's bodies solely exist for male pleasure. But by your own language you agree that some portion of the female body exists for male pleasure (and the converse) with which I agree. However I think you are under the impression that looking at an attractive woman is to completely ignoring or rejecting any other kind of appeal, emotional, intelligence, etc etc. It isn't. If I see an attractive woman and think "Wow she is good looking" that is not the same thing as "Wow, she is good looking and nothing else." It's only that looks is the first thing we can observe. It's true that some men believe that women are only good for serving them, but it's also true that some women have unfair expectations, too; the complaints of women are matched by the complaints of men wrt opposite sex. 

*If someone walks doown the street in a bikini and I 'objectify' her, do you think I am removing the possibility that she might also have a bunch of other positive qualities?* In the same way, if I am blind and a woman helps me cross the road, do you think I am thinking: "She is kind. She must be really unattractive!!!"? Most males of sufficient intelligence know and understand that qualities of women are not conglomerate; someone can be unattractive and kind and smart, someone can be attractive and be an asshole. 

*Secondly; can you substantiate the difference between being used for sexual purposes and being used for something else?* Are there any? If you feel sick with people lusting at you, fine. Do you feel sick if people want to use you for stimulating conversation? Do you feel sick if people want to use you for borrowing money? Or do you just not want to be "used" -- if this is the case, which I suspect it is, can there be any difference between being used for something sexual and something not? 

I made very long post on another thread about objectification and how it must be total and not partial to be a bad thing.

Just look at Western culture (Anglophone, at least.) Men are expected to pay on the first date. Sure, many women don't accept that. But it's a social standard. And they're expected to pay good, too. Nobody is going to take someone to a first date in McDonalds. When you're an adolescent and you have pimples or you're short or whatever, sure, it's embarrassing, and many people feel ashamed. But what's worse is economic shame. 

Women are not the only objectified people. If you think that standards of attractiveness do not cause problems amongst the male population you haven't lived as an adolescent male teenager. Oh, wait. In the same way that many girls look in the mirror and think "no man is going to want me" so it is also the case that many many boys think they are unworthy of female attention. And much more, besides: men are expected to be fit and strong and to earn incomes beyond what is the capacity of most people. Where these expectations come from is another matter altogether... but you can't claim that women have a monopoly on expectations of sex appeal. 

As it happens, I agree that staring is rude, and I don't tend to stare at people. That isn't because I don't want to objectify someone, because I have no qualms at all with thinking "that woman is attractive and I would like to have sex with her" (but mb I am capable of divorcing sex with everything else) -- it's because I think staring at anyone, for any reason, is rude.

And on final note: objectification does occur commonly amongst women. Put some attractive women in a room with some men and let them talk about how attractive they find somebody not present and watch the faces of the men who are present.

If you think your society is chauvinistic, well -- it is perhaps to a certain extent, but as the saying goes, you ain't seen nothin' yet.


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## Jane the Ripper (Mar 19, 2013)

Wellsy said:


> I just can't help but think any man who may become your partner being a pedophile by default.
> May I ask why you think they may be down that line by looking at you?
> Atm i'm making the assumption from your description as petite that you are a smaller women so smaller chest and you think men who look at small chested women are akin to those who look at the prepubescent bodies of little girls?
> 
> I think Here in Aus they actually tried to implement a law that said all Australian porn was only to allow women who had large chests to combat pedophilia because small chested women are practically little girls who haven't gone through puberty yet.


Ah yes, you would be right on that score. 

I'll give you a perhaps unrelated example. When I was a little girl my parents and I visited a butcher shop every now and then. In that little slaughterhouse there was a strange man. He would wait until my guardians were beyond ear's reach and he would whisper things, unsavory and terrible things that didn't make sense until I had grown up. Now older, I paid the store a visit and to my misfortune, he was still there. And you know what he said? He says, "You're just like I remember you; that's how I like my girls...small"

Now, this little experience hasn't soured my view on things. Perhaps it is my staying in a heavily influenced, media-crazed city that has peeved me a bit. But I've learned to ignore every little person that has come off like that. I would never choose the person that worships my body like a sort of all-you-can-eat-buffet (even if, as animals go, you're either eating or getting eaten). 

I do not resent being a woman, but I am not content with it. And I can't be labeled a man either as I find the gender unappealing. I consider myself genderless and I try so hard to dress so, but as anyone can see, there aren't many shops that are tailored to people like me. 

P.S. I understand the woman that feels proud to be gawked at. I mean, it is a compliment at said woman's art (the art being well-endowed). But then I question the root of things. Men are supposed to look. It is something that is biologically programmed. Fun fact: A woman's breasts simulate her posterior according to the evolution of human beings. Our closest relatives check each other's hindquarters as a sign of re-productivity (?). The same is true for humans, except instead of buttocks, we find ourselves looking at breasts. Another strange thought that has occurred to me is that men also look because, subconsciously, it reminds them of their mother's breasts. You know, those nutritious glands of goodness that we suckled on while growing?

And that would be a good thing in regards to your last paragraph. It certainly will make for good research, specifically how one becomes what they eat.


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## Hikikomori (Feb 14, 2013)

Good luck finding them under all those intentional layers. I don't like being stared at in general, it makes me uncomfortable. When I leave my house and notice a male is looking at me, though, it reminds me that I'm female and that biological males are, typically speaking, attracted to biological females. I usually don't have to deal with any of that shit, so being reminded of it is...strange...even more so because I'm an asexual, so I don't know what they're actually thinking when they look at me. For this reason, I usually keep my eyes fixed on the ground.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Kyora said:


> Well actually the one who would thumb up was my ex ... Well I was angry because it's like saying stare at them, I don't care in the end they are mine ^^', but I couldn't say anything so I let that pass over me. Actually, he is not my ex because of that ^^' Well thank you for apologizing, but you didn't need to =D
> 
> You death stare them? xD I can imagine how they are feeling xD but that's nice of you to protect your friends =D


I figured that kind of behavior is a symptom of lots of good reasons to break up.

Haha, the general goal is just to make them feel bad and back off. I have an algorithm of sorts for it:
(My Love for Friend) * (Vulnerability of friend) / (Scariness of guy in question) = Magnitude of death stare :tongue:


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## Resolution (Feb 8, 2010)

Hey, I'm not a woman, but if you want to look, look.


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## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

I'm curious from other people who are sexually attracted to women:

Is glancing at breasts always sexual to you?

For me, it is not. I am romantically and sexually attracted to women, but not men. Even so, if a biological male wears a speedo, I will look at it (hey, I don't see bulges down there very often lol). But I find some people to be very aesthetically attractive, that is not the same as sexy. Now, faces tend to be the most aesthetically attractive features to me, but I like other parts of the body and the body as a whole as well. Although I find a lot of guys to be good looking, I tend to prefer how a woman looks aesthetically speaking (perhaps my romantic attraction towards women and the romantic relationships I have formed with women, and just being closer with more women than men in general has caused me to aesthetically prefer how women look over how men look). ... Adding to that, I don't just like boobs for sexual reasons, I like a woman's chest for aesthetic reasons as well. I also like an S.O.'s chest because it is bouncy and squishy and make good pillows (I suppose penises are fun to play with in non-sexual ways as well, but I had one all my life, it is not as interesting ... also an S.O. chest is part of someone I deeply care about which makes it more interesting as well).

Just to be clear, I think staring at someone (not just their chest) is creepy and catcalls are quite rude ... but is glancing at someone and checking them out always sexual?

I feel like (American) culture is both a sex crazed and sexually repressed. I feel like we sexualize everything and focus too much on physical appearance (Why is an ice cream flavor sexy? ..... Breast Cancer: No, we are not saving "boobies" we are saving people, even some men, and when a women loses as physical symbol of her femininity, we should be supportive instead of reinforcing that her value is in her breast. She, or he, is still beautiful .... btw, you don't have to be good looking to be beautiful ^__^ Honestly, I think beauty has little to do with actual appearance, but that is another topic) and then assumed everything one else is sexualizing everything and judging them for it.

That being said, between dating culture/customs and industries that make money by trying to make women insecure about their looks ... I think women get way too much attention to their bodies and are pushed to place to much of their value on that, while men and biological men (so I'm included ^__^) may feel like they don't get enough positive attention to their bodies when they are single (or maybe that is just me ... outside of a relationship, no one has told me I had a nice butt since high school , although I could do without the added squeezing of my butt that some girls did lol)


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