# Am I Missing Something?



## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

I'm sad because I'm type-less. :sad:

I have spent nearly 2 years of intense, obsessive introspection trying to find my enneagram type. I have read virtually everything I can find on the internet, as well as the one book I've been able to find in stores (_Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery_), yet I can't really relate that much to any of the types and their passions/fixations. There are some that kind of, maybe, sort of fit...but not really. I'm not having the "Oh no that's me! D:" reaction everyone else seems to be having. 

Am I missing something? Am I somehow misinterpreting some of the types? Is there better insight or information out there I just haven't found? Or is there some obscure loophole I don't know about that will allow me to relate to one of the types? 

I would really like to have a type--any type, but at this point I'm starting to think that whatever my type is, for whatever reason it must not be very relevant to me. My impression is that the enneagram fits some people very well others not that well.


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## Tater Tot (May 28, 2012)

I never had an "Oh no, that's me! D:" reaction, it was more of a "Cool, that kinda sounds like me" reaction. I think there is the possibility that some people just don't have that strong of a motivation or fear, and they're always sort of mild with everything... my dad is like that. I've come to the conclusion that he doesn't really have a type.  

But, the pattern with your possible types is interesting. 4, 5, 6, or 9... 4 is a withdrawn type, and is confused often with the other withdrawers, which are 5 and 9.. 4 is also a reactive type, and confused very often with 6. Add that to the fact that the 4 could have a strong 5 wing, making it even harder to differentiate.

Likewise, 5 can be confused with 9 as well, although I'm not sure how likely that is compared to 4... regardless, they're withdrawn types, so you're bound to see similarities. That 5 could also have a strong 4 wing, once again, making it harder to differentiate. BUT. The 5 could also have a strong 6 wing, hence the 6 possibility.

6, is connected to 9, so you could simply be stuck somewhere on the line between the two points, which would make it much harder to tell. 6 could also have a strong 5 wing, hence a 5 mistype. AND, once again, 6 is a reactive type, getting mixed up with 4.

Then finally, you have 9. 9 can pretty much be mistyped as anything, first of all. But, the problem is enhanced if, like I just said, you're on the line somewhere between 9 and 6. Then you have the fact that it's withdrawn like 4 and 5, hence possibly further increased chances of being mistyped as 4 or 5 rather than, say, an 8. 

So basically, there's equal possibility of you being any of those types and mistyping as the others for various reasons...

omg gurl this is a messssssss


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## Hurricane Matthew (Nov 9, 2012)

I always feel like I'm missing something with Enneagram, too, since it seems like everyone is every type. Descriptions like "You could be this but then you could be an unhealthy type that" kinda put every number into your tritype :l or at least most of the numbers  Every time I take a test for it ((even a repeated take of the SAME test)), I get a different number.

I decided my type by seeing which of the tritype descriptions ((from here http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra.../73452-27-tritype-archetype-descriptions.html )) seemed to match how people describe me the best so I ended up at 5-4-8. Don't know if I'm mistyped or not but meh, it's all just for fun anyways so maybe it doesn't matter xD


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## meridannight (Nov 23, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> I can't really relate that much to any of the types and their passions/fixations. There are some that kind of, maybe, sort of fit...but not really. I'm not having the "Oh no that's me! D:" reaction everyone else seems to be having.
> 
> My impression is that the enneagram fits some people very well others not that well.



i have the exact same thing going on with MBTI. all the types look alike to me, there appears to be no clear distinction between them. it's all too fuzzy as to why any one type is considered to be what they are. my results are all over the map. reading the descriptions doesn't help, i can't really identify with what's presented as the basic core nature of any one MBTI type. in fact, i fail to detect a basic core nature on any of them at all. there appears to be no consistency there in those types. with the enneagram it's the exact reverse. it's all so clear and i see the types as clearly distinct from one another. additionally it's not just some descriptions thrown together, the integration/disintegration, wings and triads all make sense. 

i don't really have a need to have a type in anything though. i know who i am and whether i fit a type or not according to some system doesn't change who i am as a person, or make me some personality. it just so happens i happen to fit a type in the enneagram theory (and i'm basing this off of 90%+ accuracy; if it were anywhere below 70% i wouldn't agree with having an enneagram type either). this is not the case with MBTI at all. and i've looked into the whole reasoning behind MBTI typing etc, and it still fails to make sense. it is how it is. you have this thing with the enneagram. i wouldn't really worry about it if i were you. so you don't fit this system. doesn't mean you don't have a personality. not having a type doesn't limit your self-discovery. it might actually help you understand yourself better in some other ways.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Matthew Nisshoku said:


> I always feel like I'm missing something with Enneagram, too, since it seems like everyone is every type. Descriptions like "You could be this but then you could be an unhealthy type that" kinda put every number into your tritype :l or at least most of the numbers  Every time I take a test for it ((even a repeated take of the SAME test)), I get a different number.
> 
> I decided my type by seeing which of the tritype descriptions ((from here http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra.../73452-27-tritype-archetype-descriptions.html )) seemed to match how people describe me the best so I ended up at 5-4-8. Don't know if I'm mistyped or not but meh, it's all just for fun anyways so maybe it doesn't matter xD


I wouldn't use tritype descriptions or tests to figure out your type. These methods nowhere near encompass the nuances and complexes within a single type and will probably confuse you even more. 

You might get some better, tailored feedback on the What's my Enneagram type? by filling a questionnaire here http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-enneagram-type/84019-enneagram-questionnaire.html

And perhaps expand your reading scope, check out different authors, R/H is ok in some aspects e.g instincts, triads but tends to give a sometimes satisfactory and inaccurate portrayal of some of the types.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

meridannight said:


> i don't really have a need to have a type in anything though. i know who i am and whether i fit a type or not according to some system doesn't change who i am as a person, or make me some personality. it just so happens i happen to fit a type in the enneagram theory (and i'm basing this off of 90%+ accuracy; if it were anywhere below 70% i wouldn't agree with having an enneagram type either). this is not the case with MBTI at all. and i've looked into the whole reasoning behind MBTI typing etc, and it still fails to make sense. it is how it is. you have this thing with the enneagram. i wouldn't really worry about it if i were you. so you don't fit this system. doesn't mean you don't have a personality. not having a type doesn't limit your self-discovery. it might actually help you understand yourself better in some other ways.


I sort of feel the same way. I know myself, even if none of the types fit. And I know what I need for growth, and it has nothing to do with the enneagram. I don't _need _a type, but I still wish I had one actually that fits, though. Now whenever I talk to someone about the enneagram and they ask what type I am, I'll have to say "I don't have one." That kind of reduces my credibility whenever I try to type someone. :/


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## Octavarium (Nov 27, 2012)

I think some people fit type descriptions better than others, but that doesn't mean that those who don't fit the descriptions don't have the same fixations as everyone else. Are there people who simply don't have an enneagram type? I don't know, but I doubt it. I think there are plenty of people whose fixations don't display themselves in the typical way, so they don't fit the descriptions, but there's a big difference between not relating to descriptions and not having a fixation. 

There's something I've noticed a lot of people doing when they type themselves; I've done it myself, and this might be what you're doing. That is, they say to themselves, "I can't be that type, because it has traits x, y and z and I don't have those traits so I must be a different type," or "I'm too emotional to be a five, I'm not anxious enough to be a six, I'm not energetic enough to be a seven" etc. I thought I couldn't possibly be a one because I'm not angry enough, I'm too introspective, I do things at the last minute, I haven't done much work for causes... and so on. I could write a long list of stereotypical one traits that I don't have, and traits that I do have that are not generally associated with ones. Most people could probably write a similar list for their type, but that doesn't mean they don't have that fixation. There are only nine types, after all, and each one is very diverse, so we're not all going to fit into the typical profiles of our type. 

Quite often, though, we fit our types much better than we care to admit. Sometimes I read things about ones and I want to say "no, I'm not like that at all!" when in fact that's exactly what I'm like. Sometimes we don't see ourselves in the descriptions because we're not self-aware enough. I've spent my life analysing myself and still there are aspects of myself that I've only just discovered. 

It might help you to stop trying to fit yourself into the enneagram, and first identify what your issues are; what are your cognitive distortions? What do you fear most? What aspects of your personality are holding you back in life? How are you making yourself suffer? How have you treated other people badly? also think about what your greatest strengths are; what do other people like about you? What do you like about yourself? What do you want most out of life? Then when you have the answers, see if they point to a type. It was only when I asked myself those questions that I typed myself correctly.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

@Octavarium, that's good advice in general, but you've got my situation a bit backwards. There are a few types I can easily relate to on a trait level. My problem is that I can't relate to the passions/fixations of any of the types. Sure, on some level I could stretch them to fit. I'm envious on occasion. I'm indolent sometimes. I hoard my time and space like a 5, though I don't care about knowledge and competence. None of them are really very relevant to me.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

Try not to beat yourself up about things. 

I saw another thread where you were getting lots of input about your type, and I can completely see how that could have been overwhelming for someone and cloud their judgement. Type is not the "end all be all". No one is going to think less of you for not having a type and you shouldn't rush yourself or stress yourself out about it. Take some time, do some introspection- do some reading and wait until you have a good grasp on yourself before asking for outside input. 

In my opinion typing should be about 80% introspection and maybe 20% consideration of others opinions _To help cover blind spots_. 

Just don't stress yourself out. Enneagram is about *YOU*. Helping you grow, helping you look at yourself objectively, conquer your defenses, your fears and better understand your motivations. A test or others aren't going to be able to completely be able to do that for you. Strap yourself in for the ride tight and just step on the gas. 

Wishing you the best of luck!


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

My sister has never been able to figure out her personality by herself. She is nowhere near as self aware as I am. I had to help her out a lot before she found a type she agreed with: 9w8 and ISFP. My girlfriend is kind of the same way; not very self aware, not relating to any particular fears or motivators. She wound up being a 9w1 INFP. I think 9s sometimes are not very self aware, and are in general not in touch with their fears or motivations. My sister has always been iffy about personality typing, particularly MBTI. She was thrilled when she discovered enneagram because she finally related to 9. The chilla fo rilla of the enneagram.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

@_roastingmallows_,

My own subjective analysis is that I may be closest to type 9. Behaviorally, I seem 9-like. But in terms of attitude, I'm opposite the 9. I don't relate to self-forgetting, the attitude where the 9 seeks fulfillment everywhere but within. The cognitive laziness of the 9 goes against what I value and strive for (truth, wisdom, and understanding through thought and introspection). I am genuinely interested in self-understanding and improvement and am relatively self-aware (at least I should hope I am, after all this introspection), yet on the other hand I've noticed evidence of something that could possibly be self-forgetting. I've noticed that I do have an underlying belief that I'm not special or important. When I'm stressed out I tend to repress awareness or "numb out". And despite knowing my personality quite well, when a friend asks me what I think or feel about something, I usually have a hard time answering.

If there were more information available on the counter-sloth 9 (and it would have to distinguish it from type 4), then maybe I could see myself as a 9. But for now, not really.


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## Octavarium (Nov 27, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> @roastingmallows,
> 
> My own subjective analysis is that I may be closest to type 9. Behaviorally, I seem 9-like. But in terms of attitude, I'm opposite the 9. I don't relate to self-forgetting, the attitude that the 9 seeks fulfillment everywhere but within. The cognitive laziness of the 9 goes against what I value and strive for (truth, wisdom, and understanding through thought and introspection). I am genuinely interested in self-understanding and improvement and am relatively self-aware (at least I should hope I am, after all this introspection), yet on the other hand I've noticed evidence of something that could possibly be self-forgetting. I've noticed that I do have an underlying belief that I'm not special or important. When I'm stressed out I tend to repress awareness or "numb out". And despite knowing my personality quite well, when a friend asks me what I think or feel about something, I usually have a hard time answering.
> 
> If there were more information available on the counter-sloth 9 (and it would have to distinguish it from type 4), then maybe I could see myself as a 9. But for now, not really.


From the posts of yours I've read I think 9w1 is a strong contender for your type. It's usually nines who can relate to all the types, or think they don't have a type. Of course that alone is not sufficient evidence for a nine typing, but what you say in this post does seem like type 9; and since there are plenty of nines on this forum, clearly some are interested in introspection and self-awareness. I'm suggesting a 1 wing because of what you said in your thread in the type 1 forum. I read your other thread, (I'm not stalking you, I just browse around the enneagram forums a lot) and I don't see why everyone was typing you as a six. Maybe you are a six, I don't know, but I don't remember seeing anything particularly 6-like in that thread. 

Maybe you don't need another person's opinion on your type; @voicetrocity gave some good advice, and I'm not trying to push my typing on you. So I'll just say that in my experience, a nine influence is quite hard to detect, because to find it you sort of have to notice what you're ignoring. I used to think I was nothing like a nine, but now I'm noticing all the ways in which my 9 wing shows itself.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Look at fears and motivations, not traits or behaviors. Trait-wise I'm not always your stereotypical 5 either. I can be moody for example.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

I've been thinking lately about what I'm missing. What others have that I lack is a sense of meaningful connectedness. If I think about it, I have never in my life felt truly and meaningfully connected to another human being. I can't feel a sense of family or community or deep friendship. It's a very lonely existence. This lack of feeling connected has led me to live as a hermit since I was a child--why bother hanging out with friends when it just feels empty? I'm happier and more comfortable staying home doing my own thing. But I know deep down that meaning can only come from being deeply engaged in friendship and relationships with people. I have sacrificed meaningful connectedness for comfortable routine. 

After thinking about this, I reread the description of 9's passion and found that it sounds eerily similar. I think I may have misinterpreted it in the past, and I suspect a lot of the people who write about the enneagram may have also misinterpreted it and emphasized the nonessential parts.



> *Passion: Sloth [Disengagement]**
> 
> In this context, the passion of sloth results from the loss of the virtue of Action. *It is a resistance to being deeply affected by or engaged with the world, to being present and putting out the energy to be fully here, fully feeling and responding.* While sloth may manifest as *laziness and lack of energy*, the deeper meaning refers to the Nine's habit of giving little attention to their own development. *Nines often feel that many things are "too much trouble," so they procrastinate or ignore obligations as long as possible. Ultimately, sloth refers to the wish to "go to sleep" to one's life*, to not arise as an independent person, taking one's rightful place in the scheme of things. Some Nines are fond of saying that they "go with the flow," but in truth, they are hoping that everything will flow around them and let them be.
> In the part of the psyche represented by type Nine, *there is a tendency to say "Not now, I will get to that problem later. It's going to be upsetting. I'll just let it go. Ignore it." Nines want to stay in an internal zone where they feel safe, peaceful, comfortable, and will not be disturbed by anything.* They want to avoid anything that will upset their inner tranquillity. It takes a lot of energy to resist being affected by aspects of reality, and this often causes us to lack energy for self-awareness or self-remembering.
> Ironically, many Nines are actually* interested in spiritual work* because on some level they remember the blissful feeling of unity that lies beyond ego consciousness. The problem is that sloth causes them to *dream of that unity, to fantasize about it, or to live by some kind of philosophy related to a belief in it*. But all of this is quite different from doing the inner work necessary to make the unity a real, embodied experience in the world. Sloth keeps us visualizing white light, contemplating high-minded philosophies and yogas, and going through the paces of our spiritual practices, but definitely _not_ contacting the deficiency at the core of our egos—the emptiness from which our true nature can re-emerge into full manifestation.


(*Bold *= parts I strongly relate to, Red = parts that don't fit)

My mistake was thinking the 9 is about self-forgetting. Not caring about self-development and falling asleep to what you really want so you can avoid conflict. But after reading about it this time, I'm seeing it from a new perspective. I could be completely wrong about this, but I would argue that the core issue of the 9 is not really self-forgetting, it's _emptiness_. An emptiness that stems from the belief, "I'm not important". When the self isn't perceived as important or meaningful, it's hard to experience life at it's fullest and to feel a sense of meaning in anything.

Why didn't I see it before? Because everything I've read emphasizes the conflict-avoidance and self-forgetting issues, which may not be essential to the type after all. Hardly any description talks about this sense of emptiness and meaninglessness. They say that growth for a 9 involves learning to assert oneself without being afraid of conflict and loss of harmony. But that's completely irrelevant to me. I've never had that problem and probably never will. I'm not very assertive and don't often get into conflicts, but when it really matters I have no problem being (tactfully) assertive and confrontational.


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## Ryosuke93 (Feb 29, 2012)




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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> I've been thinking lately about what I'm missing. What others have that I lack is a sense of meaningful connectedness. If I think about it, I have never in my life felt truly and meaningfully connected to another human being. I can't feel a sense of family or community or deep friendship. It's a very lonely existence. This lack of feeling connected has led me to live as a hermit since I was a child--why bother hanging out with friends when it just feels empty? I'm happier and more comfortable staying home doing my own thing. But I know deep down that meaning can only come from being deeply engaged in friendship and relationships with people. I have sacrificed meaningful connectedness for comfortable routine.
> 
> After thinking about this, I reread the description of 9's passion and found that it sounds eerily similar. I think I may have misinterpreted it in the past, and I suspect a lot of the people who write about the enneagram may have also misinterpreted it and emphasized the nonessential parts.
> 
> ...


Most importantly though, I think you should not just look into such a brief description of sloth but look into the concept of holy love and try to figure out how holy love relates to sloth and how both relate to your behavior in real life.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Isn't 9 the "catchall" type for all those "wishy-washy" sort of people?

:laughing:
:tongue::crazy: 

Seriously, if you've been working at this for two years, you're probably trying too hard. Back off a little and try to observe how you handle your everyday life. Don't rely on the tests. You know yourself better than anyone else, after all, you've lived with yourself all of your life. I think all you need is to _trust yourself _more.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

LeaT said:


> Most importantly though, I think you should not just look into such a brief description of sloth but look into the concept of holy love and try to figure out how holy love relates to sloth and how both relate to your behavior in real life.


I had looked into Holy Love in the past trying to figure out what exactly it meant, but couldn't find any good descriptions. The descriptions that were out there were vague and confusing.

But I found a new description I don't think existed before: (Source: Enneagram of Holy Ideas at The Almaasary)



> Point 9 – Holy Love
> Holy Love is not the feeling of love, nor the essential aspect of love. Holy Love is a quality of existence that makes that existence lovable. Its loveliness and lovableness is what generates in our hearts sentiments of love, appreciation, value, enjoyment, pleasure, and so on. So we are talking about the quality of lovableness of reality when it is seen without distortion, rather than through the filter of the ego. In other words, Holy Love is the fact that objective reality has an intrinsic quality of being wonderful and pleasing—it is intrinsically lovable. This is Holy Love— whatever it is that makes it lovely, enjoyable, lovable, whatever it is about it that we can’t help but appreciate. When reality is fully perceived, one cannot help but enjoy and appreciate it. One cannot but respond with awe when the Holy Truth is fully apprehended, and one cannot but be full of wonder when Holy Perfection is realized. One cannot but melt in appreciative sweetness when beholding Holy Love. Holy Love brings you the experience of love, but it is not the love itself; it is something much more comprehensive. It is a quality of reality as a whole and is very difficult to fully define. We could say that Holy Love is the intrinsic quality of the reality of Being that is nonconceptual positivity. It is pure and unalloyed blissfulness. It is the value-saturated quality of truth. It is pure goodness, the Good of Plato.


This sounds like exactly what I meant by "meaningful connectedness". Holy Love is what makes reality feel meaningful and worthwhile--the thing that can make you love life. In a sense, it's the opposite of emptiness and apathy. Sloth describes the state I am in--the state of being without Holy Love, as well as the substitute I use (comfort, peace of mind) to cope with being cut off from Holy Love. 

I think that's essentially what all the passions are. They are a state of being and a coping method that result from being cut off from the holy idea. The passion is essentially the core of the type, and the holy idea is the missing piece the type needs to self-actualize.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Seriously, if you've been working at this for two years, you're probably trying too hard.


It's actually surprisingly common to realize after years that you're the wrong type. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as you're _open _to being a different type. Being closed-minded about it all is where things go wrong, as it limits learning. Honestly, it took me ages (12-18 months, I think?) to really feel comfortable typing as a 6, and I still keep the possibility open of being something else.

---

@_Silveresque_, I apologize for not replying on your thread. You may not believe this, but this is my first day of being headache-less since I replied last :\ Yeah, it's not been fun.

I was going to suggest another look at 9, as I saw some 9 -> 6 going on in one of your longer posts. And I was going to suggest learning about triads in case that could help you get a more concrete feeling for the types. Because 6 and 9 share only one triad together...

6: attachment, reactive, compliant/superego, head/fear
9: attachment, positive outlook, withdrawn/ego, gut/anger

Anyway, I'm really glad to hear you've settled on 9!


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## Ryosuke93 (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks for posting that link. I read this about 4's, it is very deep:

"Point 4 – Holy Origin
What does this mean? Each Holy Idea, as we have seen, presents a particular implicit truth about reality, a certain facet of how reality is and how it appears. If we perceive reality as it is without any filters, we willsee these nine Ideas as different manifestations of it. They are inseparable, since they are nine different aspects, expressions, or elements of the same experience. The facet of reality that is highlighted by Holy Origin is the perception and understanding that all appearance(meaning whatever can be experienced and perceived—inner or outer) is nothing but the manifestation of Being, the Holy Truth..........See also p186. This inseparability of appearance from its Source is the perception elucidated by Holy Origin. This is a very deep understanding which is not easy to apprehend. Without it, we can have experiences of our essential nature which actually feel separate from who we are. For instance, we might have a profound experience of the presence of boundlesscompassion or of indestructible strength, but actually feel that we are having an experience of something other than who and what we are.Essence can feel like something that comes and goes, rather than seeingthat our perception of our inner nature is what comes and goes because that perception is not clear. Holy Origin is the knowledge that you and your essence are not two distinct things. Essence is the nature of thesoul. We might believe that the Divine, or God, is something outside ourselves, residing somewhere else, which we are either connected to or not. Believing that you can be connected or disconnected from God means that you don’t understand the Idea of Holy Origin."


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