# Spanish doesn't stick



## Highschool Pariah (Dec 11, 2009)

Hey everybody, just wondering if you could help me out by giving me some advice on how to fix my problem. Feel free to ask questions if you need more information.

Lets start out with some background, spanish is easily my worst subject and in all others I don't even have to try to do spectacular. I beleive it has something with how my mind catagorizes importance. I will admit, it has made me lazy and that may be the only problem with why I can't absorb spanish(because I don't put time in to a learning that is supposed to be learned by repetition). Anyway, spanish just doesn't stick to my memory like other things, like say, math equations.

It gives me headaches, quite literally. I feel a pressure on the front of my head. I wouldn't know if this is normal because nothing else is so confusing to me as Spanish.

There are only short periods of, what I think to be, understanding and speaking it and writing it feel more fluid. It ends shortly as the teacher points out how I was wrong.(This is an improvement to the normal because at least a can get a little work done)

Than there are moments when I just look at the paper infront of me and cannot lift my pencil to even try. It's really odd. I'm making the connection that inaction is hurting me in many ways all the while but I just can't bring myself to try. I care I really do I just can't do it. Is this just laziness? There was a specific situation where I brought my spanish homework to the library, got there and settled down to get started, and couldn't do it. Keep in mind no one pressured me to do so. Procrastination?

Oh well if you got any suggestions, especially for why it is not sticking, feel free to comment. If it is just laziness, your "motivation" will at least empower me for the next hour or two:sad:.


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## FiNe SiTe (Dec 11, 2009)

Well, althrough school i was taught spanish, year after year, and it just didn't stick, just like the problem your having.
I also thought i was lazy too, but it's really hard to explain. It's probably the lack of motivation because i never cared for spanish much.


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## Highschool Pariah (Dec 11, 2009)

FiNe SiTe said:


> Well, althrough school i was taught spanish, year after year, and it just didn't stick, just like the problem your having.
> I also thought i was lazy too, but it's really hard to explain. It's probably the lack of motivation because i never cared for spanish much.


Well you graduated right, anything work for you?


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## FiNe SiTe (Dec 11, 2009)

Highschool Pariah said:


> Well you graduated right, anything work for you?


 
Errr... well to tell you the truth im in year10 but im being homeschooled now so
im not doing spanish anymore. roud:


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## Highschool Pariah (Dec 11, 2009)

FiNe SiTe said:


> Errr... well to tell you the truth im in year10 but im being homeschooled now so
> im not doing spanish anymore. roud:


You so lucky:angry:


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## Ben (Aug 23, 2009)

You can always try listening to Spanish music or movies with subtitles. Maybe by the body language or what is happening you'll be able to understand it a bit better until it "sticks".


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

This thread is very "me". I am a Mexican woman, but my family is like 5th generation. In fact we don't know anyone in Mexico. Even though my parents could speak Spanish fluently, they did not really speak much in the home. 

Growing up, I connected to a French family that lived next door. So in high school I ended up taking 3 years of French. In college I took 3 semesters of German . I even won the "German Student of the Year" award. roud: As an opera singer, I have to sing in Italian, French, and German all the time. I have had classes on diction in these languages and I have to constantly translate.

So here's my problem. I often get hired to teach in Spanish. I think this is because of my last name. I don't KNOW Spanish. I went to take a class in college and it was PAINFUL. I find it one of the most easiest of languages so my mind gets bored easy. I know that sounds stupid but it's the truth. I feel like I should already KNOW Spanish so I don't want to put forth the effort. I did get through 'Spanish 1A" and even got an "A", but I took it in summer school where things go a little more rapidly. And I still hated it. 

Then I got hired at a university where one of my students ONLY speak Spanish. I went and took another semester of advanced Spanish so I could move things along in my teaching. At first I though it was really going to work. This teacher's focus was on "conversation" and not "perfect" conversation either. She wouldn't correct you as you were speaking because she did not want anyone to get intimidated. She wanted everyone just to keep trying. At first it was working for me, because that's actually how I had to apply it when I teaching voice to this Spanish student of mine. I would just find any words I could think of at the top of my head and randomly put them together. That coupled with doing it this way in my own Spanish class really helped. I guess I am the type of person who just REALLY needs to understand the reason why I am learning something. It has to apply somewhere in my real life.

Unfortunately, I didn't get through that semester of the advanced Spanish class. The teacher ended up breaking her back and was replaced by another teacher. He was a machismo ball buster that didn't allow people to have bathroom breaks. His teaching method was not focused on "conversation" as much. It was more on doing the "correct" homework. We all had to say together "Good Afternoon, Prof Blah Blah" at the top of each class. 

Okay, I already hate Spanish. I don't need to learn it for any degree. Nothing sticks in my head already. It may go in and just bounces right back so if you give me a teacher that is going to power trip and put the focus on grades and not it's practical usage, then I'm outta there. The information just WILL NOT go in. I am also not going to mention that I could have taught that class better than him :laughing:

Is there a possibility for you to change teachers? Take a trip to Mexico? Have a Spanish speaking friend? Get an online pen pal. Maybe start a romance with with a Spaniard. I find romantic pursuits to be HUGE motivators :wink:

I think your interest in Spanish would be increased if you saw yourself using it somewhere else and if you saw how it connected you to others. Speaking it with someone really helps. You don't have to be "perfect" just go for it. And if it turns out that your motivation isn't there, it just isn't there. There are some classes we just have to ride out the best we can and finish. That's why graduating and degrees prove "commitment". We somehow made it through all the BS. 

Let me know how it's working for you. I'd be interested. I should go back and take the Spanish class again since I am teaching that same student again next semester. But dear Lord, I really should just go to Mexico and learn. But I think I'd get too "hyper" there, too. Too fidgety.


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## Highschool Pariah (Dec 11, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> Is there a possibility for you to change teachers? Take a trip to Mexico? Have a Spanish speaking friend? Get an online pen pal. Maybe start a romance with with a Spaniard. I find romantic pursuits to be HUGE motivators :wink:
> 
> 
> > Change teachers, nah... the teacher is good. Serious on teaching and most beneficial.
> ...


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## FiNe SiTe (Dec 11, 2009)

Highschool Pariah said:


> You so lucky:angry:


 
:wink:...........


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Highschool Pariah said:


> pinkrasputin said:
> 
> 
> > Is there a possibility for you to change teachers? Take a trip to Mexico? Have a Spanish speaking friend? Get an online pen pal. Maybe start a romance with with a Spaniard. I find romantic pursuits to be HUGE motivators :wink:
> ...


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## Sunless (Jul 30, 2009)

Spanish is my native tongue, i will be back to Ventrilo soon, once the folks get internet installed here, and I could help you practice if you want. Just PM me.


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## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Sadly I don't have this problem. I wish I did because my problem is that I'll learn for about a week or two and than drop the language. What I do learn sticks.  I know a few phrases in Japanese, French, and Latin.


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## Highschool Pariah (Dec 11, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> Highschool Pariah said:
> 
> 
> > pinkrasputin said:
> ...


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## Highschool Pariah (Dec 11, 2009)

Sunless said:


> Spanish is my native tongue, i will be back to Ventrilo soon, once the folks get internet installed here, and I could help you practice if you want. Just PM me.


Thanks, that means alot. Now if only I knew where to start...


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## Abuwabu (Nov 25, 2009)

Same here HP - I'm fluent in Spanish so if you want to chatter in Spanish feel free to write me. Just doing it is often the best way.


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## zwanglos (Jan 13, 2010)

Okay, I am a 'languages person' - a student, currently - so I feel that I'm pretty qualified to respond to this. I took French in highschool, did well enough, I guess, but wasn't interested enough in it to continue (a decision which I now regret). My major in college was German (I can write it fluently and speak it at an advanced level, though like you I have trouble finding people to speak with; Germans are a whole other kind of animal, though, so that's a story for another time). After college I moved on to Mandarin (Chinese) which I'm still pursuing, and I'm in Taiwan currently, at an intensive language program. I've taught myself basic Russian, and took some basic Arabic in college. I also took some basic Spanish at a community college and did just fine with it. The German and Chinese has been what's stuck, though, at least so far, because it's what I pour the most effort into. If/when I have the opportunities in the future, I'll definitely tackle Russian, re-learn French and maybe learn Norwegian as well. That's me.

Now, about you.

As was stated by previous posters, and as you surely know for yourself, one of the most important factors of learning a language is *motivation*. If you don't give a crap about what you're learning, you won't learn it, pure and simple. My father got a PhD in math from Oxford, but I can't stand math at all. Sure, I got As in the math classes I took in college, but I never went anywhere w/ math because I find it boring.

Approaching the language you want to learn with a attitude like 'man, I just need to get through this and then I can happily forget about all of it' is definitely the wrong approach. If you seriously want to master Spanish, then you have to _want_ to master Spanish. It would be a good idea to evaluate how Spanish could help you in your own life.*(I'm not too certain about your personality - if you could, please list what interests you in life, and maybe I'd be able to help you tie those things in with learning Spanish. You'd definitely be more motivated if you saw it had a point)* 

As for techniques:

There are plenty of techniques for learning languages that will make things simpler. Some of these are more suited for extroverts, while others are more suited for introverts like you and me. You need to use all of them, though, to get the maximum benefit.

*Finding people to do language exchange with, or just speak in Spanish:
*I don't know much about Sunless here, but from what I've seen she's a very nice person and likes helping others. _Definitely _take her up on her offer to help you practice speaking Spanish. Not only will it give you an outside-the-classroom experience, but having a second person to practice with means you get extra insight as to how things work in the language. Any one person only has a limited knowledge about their own language - I'm sure there are things about Spanish that your teacher doesn't understand, and I'd bet my month's salary that Sunless would get stumped by some random questions you might bring up, but it doesn't matter. Just find as many people as you can to practice with.



> No spanish speaking friends which is actually part of the problem, nobody to go to for help.


Pariah, meet Internet.
I suggest you look for people that you can chat with over Skype and/or through e-mail, and set up language exchange relationships. You help them with English, they can help you with Spanish. There are websites online that are basically social networks for people who want to learn and practice languages.
Once such site that I have used in the past is xLingo (<- link). Go set up an account, I'll be waiting...

Done? Good. Now, go do a search for people who want to learn English and can teach you Spanish. Filter them according to the kind of Spanish you want to learn (Spain-Spanish or Latin American Spanish), and then just add _every person on the list_. This is incredibly difficult for introverts like ourselves, but it has its merits.

Now, finding language exchange partners like this is a crap-shoot. You're gonna try and add dozens if not hundreds of people for language exchange purposes. Out of those hundreds, you may find only a few that are even worth talking to. I've had people refuse to speak the language I wanted to learn; I've had people use it simply as a bisexual dating service, which was awkward; a lot of people have been flakes; a lot of people were just plain boring. You'll run into these same hurdles, for sure, but hopefully you'll find someone who genuinely wants to help you. Good luck! If that doesn't work, then look for another language exchange community, rinse, and repeat.

_Pro tip: _Under absolutely no circumstances should you try to answer someone's English questions with 'that's just how to works in English...'. That is _the_ quickest way to have a potential language partner give up on you. If you are unsure of how to answer a question, do research to answer the question appropriately. Saying 'I don't know, let me get back to you on that after I check some stuff' is perfectly acceptable, but relying on your 'feel for the language' is not. This will help you improve your English a bit as well, so it's killing two birds with one stone, anyway.

*Perfecting grammar:*
This is something you can do solo, no worries. The key to mastering grammar is practice, practice, practice. There is no way of getting around this. It might help you if you look at it the same way you look at learning math - without practicing hundreds of math problems, you'd never get anywhere. Without practicing verb conjugations over and over again, you won't master the grammar.
For practicing this online, you can look around for whatever site you wish and see what helps you. When I was studying Spanish for a year, I found StudySpanish (<- link) to be a remarkably helpful site, especially for the verb drills (<- link). Depending on what sub-field you select, and certain parameters, the site will conjure up a *random *list of 25 or so actual sentences for you to practice conjugating verbs with. Just do these over and over and over again until you get it. Then come back the following day and do it over and over again, until you get it. Then the next day, then the next...

I dropped Spanish (went on to continue Chinese here in Taiwan, so I didn't have the time to devote to it), so I didn't fully explore everything the site had to offer. I suggest you do. Most of the site is free, though apparently more advanced features come at a fee. You can try finagling the registration fees out of your parents, perhaps ("but it's educational!").

*Making the vocabulary stick:
*There are technically two different kinds of vocabulary bouncing around in your head, what I (and many other language aficionados) refer to as _passive vocabulary_ and _active vocabulary_. Passive vocabulary is the vocabulary that you recognize being used somewhere - you understand what it means when someone says it, or when you see it in a newspaper or book, but you would probably never use it in a sentence. _Active vocabulary_ is vocabulary that you have perfectly mastered, and understand how to use, and you _do_ use it routinely. This goes through a process, that is, a word has to be in your passive vocabulary first, before you can fully assimilate it into your active vocabulary.

There are various approaches to improving your passive vocabulary, many of which you are probably familiar with. It is, however, important to understand how your brain functions with language acquisition. You *will* forget a good majority of vocabulary you learn in a single sitting. You need to accept that as an inevitability, because it happens to everyone, you are no exception to this.

Use this to your advantage.

Many people approach learning vocabulary with a 'cramming' strategy - sitting down with a list for an hour until they've mastered everything. This is a terrible strategy, though, because as I just pointed out above, your brain is wired to forget the majority of what you crammed.
*
Instead, take that one hour and break it up into smaller, spaced out segments. *Three twenty-minute sessions, maybe even six ten-minute sessions. I'll use four 15-minute segments as an example here. *You are not neglecting your studies by doing it this way* - it is the same amount of time, just managed differently. I'm not sure what your schedule is, but let's say this: 15 minutes right after you get back from school; 15 minutes before or after dinner; 15 minutes before you go to bed; 15 minutes after you wake up - make it part of your morning routine.

Work as hard as you can to memorize everything you can during your first 15 minute session. Don't go over the 15 minutes. During the second 15 minute session, you will realize that you have forgotten at least 50% of what you previously studied. This is normal. Now, manage your dinnertime 15 minutes by focusing only on the words that you realize you forgot.

During your third 15 minute session, you will realize that you forgot 50% of the 50% you just mastered at dinnertime. *However, this means you have currently retained 75% of all of the material.* Now focus your efforts on mastering the 25% you forgot... you see where I'm going with this?

Many people are surprised when I tell them that I only spend about 30-40 minutes mastering vocabulary that they had to stay up and cram for for 3 hours straight. And then I can take that other two and a half hours and do something different...



> It gives me headaches, quite literally. I feel a pressure on the front of my head. I wouldn't know if this is normal because nothing else is so confusing to me as Spanish.


This is, actually, very normal. I experience this all the time. It literally feels like parts of my lobes are expanding and getting larger, that the wrinkles are getting deeper and more complex. Maybe they are, I dunno, but that's what it feels like.

Also, if you find yourself getting extremely tired after studying Spanish for a period of time, don't fight it. *Take a nap - the sooner, the better.* The great thing about sleeping is that your brain will subconsciously review things you worked on during the day. If you were learning Spanish, you will literally continue to review said Spanish in your sleep. Don't overdo it with the nap, though... 30 minutes or so should be enough, or until you feel rested.

When I was studying in Germany, and had intensive classes for many hours straight, I routinely would go home and take a four-hour nap. This was after sleeping a full eight hours at night! It still happens to me now, with the Chinese, but not as badly as before. The nice thing about learning languages is that the more you learn languages, the easier that learning languages becomes. Your third language is extremely easier to pick up than your second language, and the fourth language is even easier. Your first foreign language is your biggest hurdle.

Also, people tend to underestimate just how mentally *and physically* exhausting learning a new language can be. You have to toss aside all the old habits and assumptions you got from English; you have to learn brand new ones (coincidentally enough, mastering grammar uses the same part of your brain as mastering math does - keep that in mind); you have to learn hundreds and thousands of new words, which strains your memory; you have to learn to use your mouth, lips, tongue, airways and throat in ways you would never expect, in order to create sounds that literally do not exist in English. It's tiring! Don't be afraid of it, though, just accept it for what it is.

*Passive vocabulary, strategy #2:*
Similar to the previous strategy, this one also takes into account that you're going to forget things routinely. I have found a freeware flashcards program that goes by the name of Anki (<- link) that you should familiarize yourself with. I could write another two pages on how it works - but they already have an explanatory screencast on the theory behind Anki, so please follow the link.

Put all of your vocabulary, and I mean _all_ of it, into Anki. Review it routinely. You'll retain your vocabulary, I promise 

*Active vocabulary*:
There is unfortunately no specific strategy for this - the only way you will bring out a word into your active vocabulary is when you find yourself spontaneously using it in a sentence. *Based on the strength of your preexisting passive vocabulary,* you will be pleased to find yourself spontaneously thinking one day: "Wow, this would be a _perfect_ place to use this word!" And you do use it, and it _is_ perfect.

The only way to bring about this kind of change is by having lots and lots of conversations. Refer to the information above on finding people online to practice with.

*Targeting your key language skills:* 
It is rather important to think of learning languages as developing *four* distinct skills - two are active, two are passive. The passive skills are listening and reading; the active skills, then, are speaking and writing. Each of these needs to be practiced individually. How, you ask?

*Passive - reading:
*Well, read.

"Read what?"

Newspapers! There are hundreds and hundreds of *free Spanish-language newspapers* online. You probably don't even need to subscribe or sign up for anything. A quick google search will help you find dozens of accessible ones. So, go do that ASAP.

Once you've found a newspaper you think is worth your time, regardless of how difficult it might look, commit yourself to reading a single article a day, regardless of the content. Though it would be better to stick to things shorter in length and less complicated, but make sure you read _something._ 

When reading an article, do not look up more than ten new words. Many people get bogged down and depressed because they start out enthusiastic and try to understand everything, and then it comes as a huge downer when they realize they just spent two hours trying (and failing) to understand two full paragraphs. It's not worth the effort. So, look up 10 words, and then stop. 10 new random words per day is an excellent pace. Next, throw those 10 words into Anki so you can review them later. Do the same thing the following day, and the following day, and the following day... Eventually, articles will become easier to read, so you can start tackling longer ones, and even multiple articles during a single day.

If things in the article are just too hard to understand and look up, well - use your language contacts!



> _
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Talking to her about random articles you've tried reading would be a good place to start - she can help you understand words that you are struggling with, or help make the meaning of the article more clear to you.

*Passive - listening:*
Conversations with others, of course, but also:
- Watching Spanish movies with *Spanish subtitles.* Do _not_ watch Spanish movies with English subtitles. It is a *waste of time.*
- Listening to Spanish music while simultaneously reading the lyrics. This is an especially good exercise if you happen to like the song in question  I used this tactic extensively when learning German - I happened to be obsessed with Rammstein at the time, and their lyrics were somewhat simplistic compared to others. Perfect for someone who was learning.

*Active - speaking*:
- Conversations over skype, ventrilo, in class, etc. Ask people to correct your speech.
- If you're having a particularly hard time mastering the subtleties of a certain sound in Spanish, go to a library (maybe even a local college one) and see if you can find any linguistics books - the explanations sometimes help you get over the hurdles.

*Active - writing*:
- Look for a person to exchange e-mails with - you write to them in Spanish, they reply in English.
- *Find a Spanish language forum*. I found a German language forum to post in, and eventually became the resident English expert and moderator of their English subforum - talking to people about English, but all in German. It helped a lot. Find something similar in Spanish, if you can.



Wow... I think I started writing this post over an hour ago... so hungry... I hope you find this helpful :frustrating:

Anyway, the most important things are to stay motivated, but also to swallow your pride (_incredibly_ difficult for us INFJ types). Your Spanish where it is, you can currently be out-talked by a native Spanish speaker who is only six years old. That's the truth of it: the sooner you accept that, the better. Learning a language is incredibly difficult, and it is an incredibly humbling and many times frustrating experience. I make a complete idiot of myself multiple times a day, but I've just learned to roll with the punches and accept that this is just how it has to be for now. That's what learning languages is like.

Aside from these basic strategies and resources, I'm afraid I won't be able to be much help to you. You should definitely talk with Sunless and see what additional insights she can give you.

Good luck.


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## Highschool Pariah (Dec 11, 2009)

zwanglos said:


> *(I'm not too certain about your personality - if you could, please list what interests you in life, and maybe I'd be able to help you tie those things in with learning Spanish. You'd definitely be more motivated if you saw it had a point)*


Interests me: Business/accounting(back up), psychology and counciling


As for speaking with others to study, I am way to introverted and dont have the time either(got five days to play catch up). Maybe in the near future.


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## zwanglos (Jan 13, 2010)

Well, 'business' is easy - Spanish is the second-most spoken language in the US, and eventually may overtake even English for the number of native speakers residing in the country. Knowledge of Spanish is quickly becoming a requirement for people in most businesses, and having mastery of Spanish to show off on your resume will put you way ahead of people who don't have it.

Accounting less so, since you'd be working more with numbers... however, you'd be surprised how many jobs you can affix with the word _international._ International accountant 

From a business standpoint, it's all pretty simple: since you now only speak English, your job market and potential client base is limited only to people who speak English. With the addition of Spanish, you are exponentially increasing your opportunities, allowing you to work in or at least interact with Spanish-speaking countries... Spain, sure, but also all of the Central American countries, and all the Southern American countries.

As for counseling, the scope of counseling goes far beyond just telling highschoolers what to do with their lives. If you spoke Spanish, you'd open up new job opportunities, such as being a counselor for recent Spanish-speaing immigrants, helping them get better integrated in American society (which is a good thing - people who are _not_ integrated well might start delving into a life of crime; you'd be doing society a favor).

Anyway, these are just suggestions. You're still in high school, so don't be surprised if your life goals do a complete 180-degree turn once you reach college. I thought I was just going to be a "journalist or something" when I was in highschool (very vague), and now I'm in Taiwan learning Chinese.

Great thing about learning languages: it's a general life skill - it doesn't matter _what_ you do, knowledge of a second or even third language will vastly increase your opportunities in whatever field it is you choose to take up.

And since this is a language you've started learning in primary school, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to become fully fluent by the end of college, were you to select it as at least a minor field of study.


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## Isitso (Dec 3, 2009)

I used to have issues with memorizing French. Not because it was insanely difficult, it was simply that I had no motivation and hated rote memorization. My advise to you is try to think in Spanish as much as possible. When you look at a dog, think 'there is a dog' in Spanish. If you can't think of the word in Spanish to describe something then look it up and apply that word again and often. Start with present tense verbs and then start to go into past tense, future tense etc. Once it starts circulating around in your brain regularly, it will stick.


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## Andrea (Apr 20, 2009)

skype a spaniard. cheaper than a plane ticket.


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## Siggy (May 25, 2009)

forgive me if this has been posted already but listen to spanish language radio broadcasts, tv broadcasts. cd's. It will get inside your brain. I used to do this when I was studying Russian. It sunk in. ( russian was awesome )


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

Here is a excellent website for those learning another language: http://www.unilang.org

LOTS of stuff, there.

My Spanish is at an Intermediate level and I also have a basic level understanding of German, French, and Latin (I'm a linguistics major). The key thing is that you must find ways to make it interesting, but also you need a good amount of raw repetition, drilling yourself on the verb conjugations and irregular verbs.


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## benfoldsfive dude (Nov 24, 2009)

I am taking my last year of Latin. If this make sense, I enjoy Latin, but I don't learning the grammar structure.


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