# I have no idea what I am any more.



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Luanne said:


> @_LeaT_ @_arkigos_ I'm 15. So pretty young still. I figured I might be too young to really be able to tell my auxiliary function, but I thought I might be able to. Guess I can't yet. But this has been very useful, thank you! And I think I'm 6w7 then, if that's what you think, LeaT. I'm definitely a 6. And yeah, I guess I'll just wait and see. At least I know I'm definitely IxFP. I'll just keep exploring and keep my mind open. I mean... I'm 15. I've got lots of time to find it out yet. I'm rambling again. Err... So yeah, thank you so much! And I'll keep my mind open. And hang around with all sorts of people.
> So I'm gonna go do that hanging around with people now. Actually that's a lie. I'm gonna sit in the corner on the computer. You've both been so helpful XD


I in general see a bit more Ne in you than Se (that last response reeked of weak Ne).


----------



## Luanne (Jul 6, 2012)

@_LeaT_ Out of curiosity, what seems like weak Ne? I mean, I guess it's the jumping from thought to thought? Or something like that? I'm just curious... I wanna say more but I can find out these answers so I won't. Sorry if I'm taking up too much of your time!


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Luanne said:


> @_LeaT_ Out of curiosity, what seems like weak Ne? I mean, I guess it's the jumping from thought to thought? Or something like that? I'm just curious... I wanna say more but I can find out these answers so I won't. Sorry if I'm taking up too much of your time!


An example of Ne is how you go from describing a beach to how it makes you think it's nothing like the big city or describing how you're some kind of IxFP and then ending up with you mentioning you're sitting in front of the computer.


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

Hahaha, I've done that. It drives my mother crazy!!!:kitteh:



LeaT said:


> An example of Ne is how you go from describing a beach to how it makes you think it's nothing like the big city or describing how you're some kind of IxFP and then ending up with you mentioning you're sitting in front of the computer.


----------



## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

@Luanne

Quick question, but what makes you think you have Ne?


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

LeaT said:


> An example of Ne is how you go from describing a beach to how it makes you think it's nothing like the big city or describing how you're some kind of IxFP and then ending up with you mentioning you're sitting in front of the computer.


I see this sort of stuff as Pe generally rather than necessarily Ne. With Ne I look for ... more high-level mental ..uh... wit? Leads to high-mindedness and can make them seem elitist especially when young.... being more comfortable discussing abstractly... usually a familiarity to the point of being adept and falling back to it with ease and preference. It's difficult to describe, I guess, which is why I so often fail to describe it! I also look for the angst and occasional uptightness of Si tertiary. I also saw very little obsession with authenticity that can dominate an INFP. @_Luanne_ is too interested in freedom and fun to me to be an INFP. I also often find that INFPs have more in common with INTP than ISFP.. but maybe that is just my experience. 

I also think Luanne is too nice to be INFP. INFP may care a great deal about people abstractly... but the INFPs I knew in High School I would not describe as 'nice'. 'Sweet', maybe beneath their angst, but as often as not they would not be very nice. Think Kurt Cobain - a total sweetheart who cared deeply about social issues but was an angstful asshole obsessed with authenticity.

I do not think that Ne can be derived from random flow of consciousness, at all. Perhaps my view is too rigid?


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> I see this sort of stuff as Pe generally rather than necessarily Ne. With Ne I look for ... more high-level mental ..uh... wit? Leads to high-mindedness and can make them seem elitist especially when young.... being more comfortable discussing abstractly... usually a familiarity to the point of being adept and falling back to it with ease and preference. It's difficult to describe, I guess, which is why I so often fail to describe it! I also look for the angst and occasional uptightness of Si tertiary. I also saw very little obsession with authenticity that can dominate an INFP. @_Luanne_ is too interested in freedom and fun to me to be an INFP. I also often find that INFPs have more in common with INTP than ISFP.. but maybe that is just my experience.
> 
> I also think Luanne is too nice to be INFP. INFP may care a great deal about people abstractly... but the INFPs I knew in High School I would not describe as 'nice'. 'Sweet', maybe beneath their angst, but as often as not they would not be very nice. Think Kurt Cobain - a total sweetheart who cared deeply about social issues but was an angstful asshole obsessed with authenticity.
> 
> I do not think that Ne can be derived from random flow of consciousness, at all. Perhaps my view is too rigid?


Most of what you describe is just enneagram-related. You're describing enneagram 4 instead of actual INFP-ness (I think a lot of INFPs can be sweet and caring and describe themselves as such by the way, it just really depends on their enneagram), not enneagram 6w7. 6 is also a type that has a bit more of an earthly vibe to it, especially when integrated or disintegrated. Both 3 and 9 can be rather visceral in their own ways and tied to the physical. 

By the way, I know most people type Kurt Cobain as an INFP but I always see Cobain as an ISFP for some reason. I could never quite buy the INFP card, personally. You might also want to look into musicians such as Trent Reznor who I think is an ISFP enneagram 5w4 and how he comes off. Not your typical ISFP.


----------



## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

INFP can be really sweet or nice if they want to.

INFP's are the stereotypical Harem anime protagonists who have it all, but really don't want it. And most if not all the girls like them because they are nice. (bleh! I think I sneezed.)


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Most of what you describe is just enneagram-related. You're describing enneagram 4 instead of actual INFP-ness (I think a lot of INFPs can be sweet and caring and describe themselves as such by the way, it just really depends on their enneagram), not enneagram 6w7. 6 is also a type that has a bit more of an earthly vibe to it, especially when integrated or disintegrated. Both 3 and 9 can be rather visceral in their own ways and tied to the physical.
> 
> By the way, I know most people type Kurt Cobain as an INFP but I always see Cobain as an ISFP for some reason. I could never quite buy the INFP card, personally. You might also want to look into musicians such as Trent Reznor who I think is an ISFP enneagram 5w4 and how he comes off. Not your typical ISFP.


I actually agree Trent is an ISFP and have adamantly stated so in one or more threads about it. I disagree with Kurt as ISFP with the same vehemence. I think Kurt is a lovely example of INFP. Note, for example, that Trent is super nice in person and Kurt was a jerk (who was nevertheless a very sweet and caring person).

I still don't know enneagram enough to approach your observations reputably. I've never met an INFP who wasn't sweet and caring... but they all struggle with elitism and obsession with authenticity. ISFPs really aren't that way. I think Kurt and Trent are a great example of this.... Kurt took his personal authenticity WAY more seriously and was more of an elitist as well.


----------



## Luanne (Jul 6, 2012)

Wow... 
@*The Wanderering ______ *I just identify with it, that's all. Literally all. But I identify with it strongly enough that my confusion is confusing. And nice username by the way, I had to copy and paste it just so I got it right. With the lines at the end... 
@arkigos Well... I'm witty enough to make people laugh at the drop of a hat (or just disturb them) sometimes... If I'm feeling confident enough to speak up. And too nice to be an INFP (thanks by the way, take out the relevance and it's a compliment)... Thanks to the stereotype of an INFP that actually made me laugh! I'm not as nice as I seem online (although my conscience usually won't let me be much else) and I'm kinda sarcastic and often... not rude, but not nice. I'm full of angst, which I'm careful to hide (like really careful) and I like the idea of authenticity more than I let on. I... was entirely truthful, but I tend not to share certain things. It's not the best habit, but, ya know, we all have to have some secrets. 

I am nice though... Does that make sense with what I said earlier? I dunno. And yes, I love freedom and fun. Especially freedom. Oh, and you said INFPs tend to have more in common with INTPs? Cause the person I have most in common with in the world is an INTP. But it's complicated (partly cause from the sounds of it my auxiliary function is barely developed yet) cause, you know, who really knows. The functions are... ideas, they must be cause everyone has different ideas about what they are. And then there's all these other ideas that come into play and mess everything up, but not everyone knows about these other ideas and they just base it on whatever ideas they're most familiar with. It's weird. But kinda like life in general. I guess psychology's the least... certain of the sciences. But MBTI seems more like art in a way. 
And part of the reason I'm confused is that I can't identify if my way of thinking is abstract or not. It's just... me. But I can't express it properly, whatever it is, cause I honestly struggle with words to express it. That's why it's a stream of conciousness, it's the best I can do in words. 
@LeaT Hmm... Yeah. I feel like I should mention you for some reason. And I never thought the enneagram affected the MBTI so much...


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

Luanne said:


> Wow...
> @*The Wanderering ______ *I just identify with it, that's all. Literally all. But I identify with it strongly enough that my confusion is confusing. And nice username by the way, I had to copy and paste it just so I got it right. With the lines at the end...
> @_arkigos_ Well... I'm witty enough to make people laugh at the drop of a hat (or just disturb them) sometimes... If I'm feeling confident enough to speak up. And too nice to be an INFP (thanks by the way, take out the relevance and it's a compliment)... Thanks to the stereotype of an INFP that actually made me laugh! I'm not as nice as I seem online (although my conscience usually won't let me be much else) and I'm kinda sarcastic and often... not rude, but not nice. I'm full of angst, which I'm careful to hide (like really careful) and I like the idea of authenticity more than I let on. I... was entirely truthful, but I tend not to share certain things. It's not the best habit, but, ya know, we all have to have some secrets.
> 
> ...


I have to say, I love how you write(think). It's a gift.


----------



## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

I can see your Ne in your writing, so I definitely think you are an INFP. You got off topic a couple of times and even made some asides. Your biggest give away was some of the things you said were really abstract and you didn't define them. Abstract and shallow is Ne at its essence which is why it can look really similar to Se. As a dominant Ne user I sometimes get mistaken as an ESTP or ESFP because of my shallow Ne, but no .... I am definitely more introspective than your average Se user.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> I actually agree Trent is an ISFP and have adamantly stated so in one or more threads about it. I disagree with Kurt as ISFP with the same vehemence. I think Kurt is a lovely example of INFP. Note, for example, that Trent is super nice in person and Kurt was a jerk (who was nevertheless a very sweet and caring person).
> 
> I still don't know enneagram enough to approach your observations reputably. I've never met an INFP who wasn't sweet and caring... but they all struggle with elitism and obsession with authenticity. ISFPs really aren't that way. I think Kurt and Trent are a great example of this.... Kurt took his personal authenticity WAY more seriously and was more of an elitist as well.


I really have to disagree with you again as I feel you are not describing function attitudes (any type can be selfish and egotistical) and what you really are describing is enneagram 4 in contrast to some superego type or maybe an so dominant person. 

Not every INFP is going to struggle with authenticity issues. I do for example, does that make me an INFP? No, it just means I'm an INTP with a strong 4 fix and a wing 4. When I did my type me thread I was mistaken for an INFP by some people for exactly the reasons you actually mention are attributed to INFPs here - struggles with authenticity and authority and so on. But again, those are just enneagram 4 issues, not specific Fi issues. 

The reason why I mention Kurt and Trent is because they are close enneagram-wise. I am not sure if I agree with Kurt being a 5w4 but I do agree with Trent being one and this is why he comes off as so INTJ-ish in most of his interviews and despite him being an ISFP, truth be told, the way we two seem to think is eerily similar despite not sharing MBTI type. I attribute this to our 5w4-ness. The similarity was to such a degree that when he said something, it was as if he took the words out of my mouth because I was thinking exactly that although not always in that precise wording. But the main idea was always the same. 

The fact you seem to emphasize Kurt's authenticity issues seem to further reinforce Kurt's 4w5 to me, although he's often cited as a 5w4. Similarly, if we look at an artist such as Marilyn Manson who's also a 4w5 we see a similar attitude but he is definitely not an INFP despite exhibit behavior you'd perhaps would normally attribute to INFP-ness. I'm fairly certain he's an INTP who's a core 4. 

See, this is why it's so deceptive to type people when you don't take enneagram into account because a person can appear as so different by just switching enneagram around a little. An INTJ can seem a bit more like an INFJ because the INTJ is a 9, or an INTP who is a core 4 will definitely be mistaken for an INFP such as myself despite not being a core 4 (but I could almost be). This is why behavior, not even interests, are at the end of the day actually useful when trying to type people in MBTI. Only how they think matters.


----------



## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I really have to disagree with you again as I feel you are not describing function attitudes (any type can be selfish and egotistical) and what you really are describing is enneagram 4 in contrast to some superego type or maybe an so dominant person.
> 
> Not every INFP is going to struggle with authenticity issues. I do for example, does that make me an INFP? No, it just means I'm an INTP with a strong 4 fix and a wing 4. When I did my type me thread I was mistaken for an INFP by some people for exactly the reasons you actually mention are attributed to INFPs here - struggles with authenticity and authority and so on. But again, those are just enneagram 4 issues, not specific Fi issues.
> 
> ...


Wow! I so hope I am not an INTJ enneagram 7 wing 8 because that seems very plausible.


----------



## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I really have to disagree with you again as I feel you are not describing function attitudes (any type can be selfish and egotistical) and what you really are describing is enneagram 4 in contrast to some superego type or maybe an so dominant person.
> 
> Not every INFP is going to struggle with authenticity issues. I do for example, does that make me an INFP? No, it just means I'm an INTP with a strong 4 fix and a wing 4. When I did my type me thread I was mistaken for an INFP by some people for exactly the reasons you actually mention are attributed to INFPs here - struggles with authenticity and authority and so on. But again, those are just enneagram 4 issues, not specific Fi issues.
> 
> ...


I'd type Marilyn Manson an (E)NFP - tentatively since I don't know him and just watched a few interviews. He is a very rational and intelligent person but so are all xNFx type people. 

I don't know Enneagram well and thus cannot comment on it or it's coupling with MBTI. I am skeptical to say the least. 

I guess the basic point is that flow of consciousness and thinking of random things is not necessarily Ne... especially because I see ISxP types do it so much... they can be quite a bit more random than, say, me. That's my only real point, I guess.


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

arkigos said:


> I'd type Marilyn Manson an (E)NFP - tentatively since I don't know him and just watched a few interviews. He is a very rational and intelligent person but so are all xNFx type people.
> 
> I don't know Enneagram well and thus cannot comment on it or it's coupling with MBTI. I am skeptical to say the least.
> 
> I guess the basic point is that flow of consciousness and thinking of random things is not necessarily Ne... especially because I see ISxP types do it so much... they can be quite a bit more random than, say, me. That's my only real point, I guess.


To me enneagram has become a very important factor when trying to type people, especially when someone has an atypical enneagram type and MBTI combination. There was this guy called Shinji Mimura, not sure if he's still around, who appeared vyer much like an ENTP and he wasn't sure i he was an ENTJ or ENTP but during the typing progress it came out that he was in fact not an Ne dom at all and not even a thinker. He was some kind of xSFP. Why did he appear ENTP-ish? His enneagram 3 made him very image-focused so he unconsciously come off as an ENTP because his ideal image was that of this smart, intellectual, outgoing man he wanted to be and he thought ENTP/ENTJ fit the bill much better than a potential xSFP description. During the typing process he thus became very resistant to what we suggested in what we saw in him because it went against his image of himself. This is why enneagram matters and he's hardly a unique case here. Thinking of himself as a kind and nice man was hardly something that came first to his mind. Again, because it conflicted with his ideal image of himself. With that said, Fi-Te is in general the function attitude that tends to usually come off as selfish and uncaring regardless if we speak of SFPs or NFPs or even Te types due to the nature of Fi and Te over Ti and Fe. 

And SPs can also be very rational and intelligent, and not every NF is going to be by the way. It's not so much the randomness itself but how it occurs and what kind of randomness. Also, I tend to try to look for Si and not just Ne. If I see Si, then Ne is automatically there. I see more of what could be Si in the OP than Ni for example. 

SPs also tend to carry a bit of a no-nonsense attitude towards things abstract, especially when young and their intuition is poorly developed. Remember that person who thought she was an INTP and wanted to be an INTP but she wasn't sure if she was one? Another image type fixer. We typed her as an ISFP too, and if you read her socionics questionnaire you'll see how she emphasizes thinker traits over feeler traits again. 

Which is why I'm saying feelings of authenticity is not going to be important to very INFP. Many enneagram 4 ISFPs also mistake themselves for INFPs for this reason because I think it's an unfortunate stereotype. An enneagram 9 INFP will probably not even have a sense of self due to the nature of 9. You are free to be skeptical but I think you would value my reasoning if you actually bothered to look into it more. You'll realize how many of the type stereotypes have occurred due to the correlation between enneagram and MBTI type but this has nothing to do with Jungian type. Jungian type is how you think, even though I am aware that Jung also stereotyped but that's an aside. That's one of the things I won't agree with him on.


----------



## Luanne (Jul 6, 2012)

@arkigos Thank you! You made me smile. And hug my computer. Great way to start the day.
@LeaT I do identify with the obsession with authenticity and... whatever else was mentioned, but I did mistake myself for a type 4 until I was typed as a 6 (twice) and then I read more into it and saw how it manifested itself. But I did think I was a 4. So how would being a type 6 affect being INFP/ISFP? Cause I'm not really sure of that one yet. 

It's interesting watching INTPs debate. I went on their forum and read a discussion and it was really interesting, and basically just like reading my INTP friend argue with herself. It was actually quite bizarre. 

And the temperaments are interesing to think about. Like SP and SJ are defined by whether they use Se or Si, but NT and NF are just defined by the fact they use some form of Intuition. I never noticed that before. Cause it makes me think, like why aren't they SF, ST, NF, NT, or even SP, SJ, NP, NJ? It's an odd distinction. I suppose there's got to be a reason for it, dunno what it is though. It feels right the way it is, but maybe that's just cause I'm used to seeing it that way. Wow, I just looked up socionics and it's weird. 

This kinda reminds me of Hogwarts houses actually (hear me out!) and cause I don't wanna do homework I'll explain. JK Rowling made up the houses, and gave them basic traits. Like Hufflepuffs are hard working and loyal, Ravenclaws are creative and intelligent, Slytherin are cunning, ambitious and determined, Gryffindor are brave and... I don't actually know what else. Daring? Then the readers were given more information about each of the houses. But then it started to grow outside of its creator. At this point, for example, JKR said something about Slytherins, but people who identified with the basic Slytherin traits said that on the whole, they didn't think that was correct. People often don't know which house they'd belong to, because these aren't exclusive, and most people have traits from different houses. But it's just the fact that the fans have taken it into their own hands. Like my friend, who's a Ravenclaw, says that she doesn't understand how Luna was so rejected and bullied within Ravenclaw house, because they've been said to be the oddballs, the eccentrics, and they're actually most likely to accept her and leave her to her... well, she could be right about any of the things she said. And I thought I fit best in Ravenclaw, thanks to the stereotypes of it being the smart house, and Slytherin being the evil house, but then I realised that I was Slytherin and Slytherins as people aren't evil (except in the books, mostly) and actually in the books Gryffindors seems to make some pretty dodgy moral choices. I know this is just a thing from a book series, but this whole thing reminds me of the houses and how they've grown beyond how they were first created. Also the whole problem with stereotypes. 

I should do my homework now (I'm probably not gonna, but I'll feel less guilty if I at least acted like I was gonna do it).

And it feels kinda awkward, cause I was asking for help on which type I was, then when people said one type I was kind of arguing for the other and now, like 35 comments later this is still going just cause I felt I had to disagree with what people said in the first place. I wonder if the same would have happened if they'd said INFP to start with...


----------



## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

@ Luanne

You shouldn't worry too much about worrying about your type. Trust me alot of people do it, but I KID YOU NOT. You definitely have Ne. I mean How else would you be able to bridge a connection between Harry potter and your situation. The connection between 2 completely unrelated things is definitive Ne. and before anyone says it is also Ni it AINT cuz Ni is more insightful and much much more indepth than Ne. Ni would definitely see the connection between harry potter and Luanne's situation, but Ni wouldn't talk about it like Luanne did. They would most likely lightly touch upon it or skip it altogether since it breaks most of the rationale of a good Ni insight. Ni is very focused and more analytical than Ne, so Ni won't see tons of completely random connection they're only going to see a few connections mostly pertaining to what they already know or are already interested in.

So yea YOU DEFINITELY HAVE NE!!!! You just need figure out if you have Ti or Fi which I'm sure you can guess which is which by now:wink:

So thank you and GOOD NIGHT!!!!!!


----------



## Luanne (Jul 6, 2012)

@The-Wandering-______ (I think I got the right number of dashes!) I'm not worrying much, don't worry! And I know I do the jumpy about thingy, it's just that the connections have always been apparent to me so it doesn't seem random, it seems... logical? Not logical, a sort of word that means it without sounding like there's a sound reason for me jumping to each topic. Except I can't explain the connection. And I use Fi, from the sounds of everyone else who's typed me that's indisputable. And I just know it. Part of the reason I keep talking and asking is cause I wanna know, cause it's interesting. And... I mean, I'm only 15, my only properly developed function is Fi. I could end up naturally preferring to use Se, and be an ISFP. But yeah, why am I saying all this? And your saying GOOD NIGHT!!!!! could be like it's the END of this discussion for you, or like you're actually going to bed (which of couuuurse would make sense, you living in Georgia and all). Or just like GOODNIGHT VIENNA. Which I know is from somewhere, but the only place I heard that one was in a book that it didn't originate from.

In case you couldn't tell, I'm procrastinating


----------



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Look into tritype theory. You could have a 4 fix for example but you are a 6 core. You don't strike me as a 4 core either way. As I said, I'm a strong 4 fixer and have a strong 4 wing to my 5 so to me authenticity is really important too.


----------



## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

@LeaT, good points. Enneagram really affects things.


----------



## Luanne (Jul 6, 2012)

@LeaT I think I was told my trifix was probably 6-1-4, but I'm gonna do my research now. 
I remember reading something about it, and somebody typed God as a type 1. I love that they felt the need to type the creator of all, who may or may not exist, and may or may not have a personality or recognisable characteristics. But I do see what they mean.
Well... I think I go sx/sp/so. That would make a lot of sense.
Haha, this test typed me primarily as 4w5 so. Nope... But on tests I consistently turn out as 4w5. Or at least 4. At least this test followed close behind with 6 sp... Close.
Hmm... This is an interesting quote from a webpage: _"The Ego is like a fearful entity living inside the nine-sided house who becomes convinced that the outside is dangerous and that it is most likely to see and be able to respond to this perceived danger by looking through three particular windows. Because the Ego is very fearful, it spends a great deal of time fixated on the view through these three windows. It may set up chairs with binoculars in front of these windows; it will become very familiar with these three particular views. Every time the Ego feels particularly or suddenly threatened, it will immediately go to these windows. The Ego is Fixated in these three Domains. "
_And this thing here: _6s have the inability to use their inner sense of guidance (T) to effectively affect their sense of self (F), so much so that they have to substitute external guidance or systems of thought for their own. _Except that I reject external guidance and systems of thought on principle, unless I specifically seek it. I wonder... 
Welp, still a 6. 
Okay, I'm gonna come back to this website now. Awesome.
I just went on the enneagram forum, and the last particular forums to be updated were 6, 4 and 1. That's gotta be a sign, right? ;D
And I guess my heart fix is 4. Cause I identify with it enough. I doubt my gut fix is 8, which leaves 1 and 9... And I can't discount 8. Or 2, or 3. Back to basics.
It's really interesting how people on threads have said they're certainly this type, and talk about their experience as this type, but then their profile says another type. Self discovery is really interesting...
I've been researching for a couple of hours, and redoubted a lot of things, yet strangely never doubted being a six. 
Okay, I might as well end this message here. 6-1-4 is likely, I think, as is 6-4-1. And there's 6-9-4/6-4-9. But I think 6-1-4 or 6-9-4 is most likely, unless it turns out I'm not any kind of four and then... I dunno.


----------



## Luanne (Jul 6, 2012)

I've always written more than I thought I had...
Haha, I got the messge "This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 1 seconds" Seriously, one second?


----------

