# MBTI and the borderline personality



## bearlybreathing (Aug 6, 2013)

Is it possible to truly know your MBTI when everything is so unstable and uncertain? I have a BPD diagnosis (which involves "A markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of yourself") and it seems every time I'm like "yeah, I'm definitely this type!" something changes, usually a life change like someone leaving or an entirely different job starting or whatever. I was certain I was ISTP but maybe that was only because the person I hang out most with is an STP. Now that person isn't around as much and I'm having my doubts as expected, and my job is changing and I'm going back into entertainment so I'm sure I'll think my type is something different a month from now.

The thing is, every thing changes. How I relate to people, how I think, how I present myself. Whatever I think suits, that's what I do to survive. I had a short, intense relationship with an ENTP and you know what I did? I became appalled at myself and created another account on this site (eventually got caught on and my accounts were merged). I listed my type as ENTP and truly (think I) used Ne-Ti. When I worked as an entertainer I "became" ESFP because that was useful for my job and the people I was surrounded with. Never realized I was not myself until that job ended and my personality, my identity, gone. I've done this as long as I can remember and if I had known about MBTI from the get go I probably would have genuinely believed myself to be every type by now. When I'm not camouflaging, I'm no one and do crazy stuff to avoid dealing with that emptiness. Maybe that shows a personality type? I question if I really don't have a self or if I have just buried it so deep I've forgotten.

Do you think it's possible for someone with severe identity disturbances to know or have their Myers Briggs type, which is not supposed to change with the wind, or is there none? Or is this a case where it does change?


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## MyEvilTwin (Sep 27, 2015)

Might be just me but a combination of a _personality_theory and a _personality_disorder seems a bit.. um.. random?


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

This sounds more like Enneagram to me. You sound like a Type. 3 adapting to your environment with different personas. Just a thought


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## Tyche (May 12, 2011)

Are you receiving treatment? I believe once a bpd person is in a healthier place they can discover their mbti type. Like anyone who is unhealthy, it can be difficult to figure out.


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## SirCanSir (Mar 21, 2018)

Probably unheathly ENTP chameleon attitude. If you lose your sense of identity thats a path you can easily follow (imitating using Ne-Ti). Its probably hard, you need to have something to hold dear (values,ideals,dreams) that is going to be absolute to yourself and is going to serve as a part that never changes. Well overall chameleon could be good for your work and opportunities (have you tried acting?).

Have you done much introspection? That kind of attitude is something close to what i had in the past (pathological lying to fit in, weak opinions that easily changed, following the mass blindly) until i turned 18, got sick of myself and tried fix my whole personality issues myself by adopting new habits that would eventually lead to the traits i wanted (sincirity, open mindness, critical thinking, strong mind, decisiveness).

So if you cant find any other way just imagine your ideal self (no matter the type) and work yourself hard until you gain those traits. Personalities are all about habits, the only thing you need to change them is enough willpower and enough self awareness.
If you repeat those habits you gain the traits and maybe you get to know yourself better.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I don’t think Boarderline Personality Disorder
Necessarily means Identity Crisis (those sorta are two different things)

My therapist considers me to have a very mild case of Boarderline Personality, I discussed with him my doctor trying to push Bi Polar Meds on me: my therapists response was absolutely NOT (he was very firm) that he thought mine was very manageable and a result of PTSD which can be managed through therapy and he did not think I should be tampered with and put on antipsychotics. He made very clear while I exhibited chameleon signs of the condition and fight or flight survival skills that I was in a place to manage this with therapy based on where I was on acceptance of growth. He did actually place me on scale of the worst he deals with and the easiest and described me as truly requiring the guidance through relevant PTSD but not identity crisis attention seeking nor the extreme end of persons he deals with in severe extreme states. He was showing me this scale because of my doctor trying to push for me to get on anti psychotics. 

He totally defended my stance of doing what I am doing 

Which in my case is at most when getting anxiety is taking a PRN nerve and muscle relaxer to chill out my dopamine levels. It’s not addictive and it’s not a full extreme narcotic. As well as getting my hormone levels checked because we have already established a lot of my peak times where I am most vulnerable is literally linked to PMDD so he thinks that onset’s it.

Point In my sharing this was to say absolutely fucken not
I am very Boarderline, Boarderline Personality Disorder 
It’s manageable 

I do wonder if you actually have Boarderline Personality Disorder
Because the identity crisis stuff you are mentioning and maybe (no offense) being out of touch sound like maybe a combination of disorders on top of each other. Not saying you are this, but I have noticed people who are hypochondriac & narcissistic combined (my suspicions of them) can have extreme disconnect from reality. I am not sure if you realize the burden of most people with Boarderline Personality Disorder is usually linked to PTSD and having to distinguish between the parallels of the line with trust and acceptance on accepting reality for what it is, and carrying the burdens of seeing the world as very raw and dark vs optimistic. What you describe sounds very much out of touch (no offense) and scattered. I am not a psychologist just a person using their own experiences and observations.

Anyways my pendulum switches from STP to NFJ, generally

I about died fucken laughing when my daughter was talking about her generation being the acceptance generation :laughing: 
Point I don’t know your age but if you’re under 25 you’re in a generation which really has taught you everyone is clinically ill and has a special snow flake identity. If you have had zero sense of grounding that in your upbringing or have not yet reached full development in enlightenment and perspectives on growth this alone could effect that.

Now also reading about the cognitive functions. And understanding yourself helps.
I don’t think not knowing your MBTI is indicative of personality disorder. 

I just think you should consider stepping away from MBTI if it will cause further conflict in helping you assess what you need to address with yourself. 

I may have been slightly annoyed by this because I consider myself someone who progressively tries to overcome and persevere through any afflictions and not use them as an excuse but rather as knowledge and tool to try and become better. So as someone diagnosed with Boarderline Personality Disorder it’s a bit off putting to have stuff like this put out there as representative of these sorta afflictions. I don’t even like being associated with what you just put out there.


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## bearlybreathing (Aug 6, 2013)

Have been diagnosed with BPD and SZA on several occasions (also PDNOS, schizophrenia, bipolar, CPTSD, etc), not getting good treatment. Dx could be and probably is wrong, I was just assuming my current pdoc that knows me well is right. Obviously I have other symptoms that fuck up my life too, and I'm sure you know no two cases of BPD are exactly the same. I don't know what causes what or why, just curious about the relationship between the two and if that unstable sense of self is strong if you can ever really know your (MBTI/enneagram/APTI/whatever the fuck is out there.
So, BPD expert, how do you know if you're being lied to by your doc and overcome these problems before killing yourself? I'm at that point. I don't want to go on a rant when I was just curious if unhealthy people with no solid person can know themselves. Apparently I can't and apparently I need to do something different. I couldn't help myself so I sought help. They said only I can help myself. There is no help.


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## MetricSlideConverter (Jan 19, 2018)

thatskiergirl said:


> Have been diagnosed with BPD and SZA on several occasions (also PDNOS, schizophrenia, bipolar, CPTSD, etc), not getting good treatment. Dx could be and probably is wrong, I was just assuming my current pdoc that knows me well is right. Obviously I have other symptoms that fuck up my life too, and I'm sure you know no two cases of BPD are exactly the same. I don't know what causes what or why, just curious about the relationship between the two and if that unstable sense of self is strong if you can ever really know your (MBTI/enneagram/APTI/whatever the fuck is out there.
> So, BPD expert, how do you know if you're being lied to by your doc and overcome these problems before killing yourself? I'm at that point. I don't want to go on a rant when I was just curious if unhealthy people with no solid person can know themselves. Apparently I can't and apparently I need to do something different. I couldn't help myself so I sought help. They said only I can help myself. There is no help.


By chance, has your PDoc mentioned/recommended DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy)? It was originally created for BPD, and is the leading effective treatment for it. 

I have a close family member with BPD, and she felt the same way about there being no help. She has been doing DBT for the last several months, and has shown improvement in establishing a more stable sense of self.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bearlybreathing (Aug 6, 2013)

My pdoc tried getting me into a residential that is DBT based, but they ended up hospitalizing me. During inpatient we did some DBT based exercises and I wasn't much of a fan, but maybe it'd be different willingly going through the whole "course" in order with other people willingly doing it.


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## MetricSlideConverter (Jan 19, 2018)

I don't know if you like to read, but I'd like to throw out a book suggestion. It's called "Buddha and the Borderline" by Kiera Van Gelder. The author has a BPD diagnosis, and her book details the journey of her treatment and recovery. The reason why I'm suggesting it is because she specifically describes her experiences with DBT and how it helped her. She is very real about her struggles, and she presents them in a way that is captivating and also very humorous at times. It might give you some insight into how DBT works in an outpatient setting.


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## bearlybreathing (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks, I'll look into it.


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## happycrazy (Apr 26, 2018)

Sorry if this doesn't "answer" your questions OP...I think it's kind of related. To me there seems to be a rift between what looks like two different approaches to MBTI and it doesn't get talked about all too often maybe because it ultimately leads to a much deeper discussion but one that's controversial. The first approach is philosophical; you're born as a type from birth and it remains with you forever. Your cognitive functions are properties of your mind...not your physical brain. Or properties of mind in general...the nature of Perception or Judging having two varieties for each and two modes because that system is complete and internally consistent. There is an order to it, and it's not arbitrary but it doesn't have much to do with physical brain activity and the chaotic brain environment in general (that's why MBTI is so fascinating to many but discounted as psuedoscience by others). The second one is neurobiological and rooted in the materialist world view with cognitive functions being associated with certain brain activities. From that perspective there's no reason why someone couldn't have their type changed if their brain activity or structure was altered with drugs or physical impact. Most typologists state that your type can't change, you can only mimic other types. Just something to think about.


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