# Am I INTP or INFP?



## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

@Op @_Awex_



Awex said:


> Finding the cause for the depression/anxiety is helpfull. If your INTP friend really has been through alot of course he'll face depression. Everybody gets depressed occasionally. I think the difference between thinkers and feelers tend to be what is causing the stress and not the stress itself.
> 
> *Again, be careful with this. I am an NF and I almost dare to say that if there is one person here on PerC who can define and identify his emotions through reason, it is me. No NT/ST can beat me in this field. Call me arrogant, I call it truth but I take no pride in this. I do have to say that I am a 1w9 to stereotype here which makes me a rare NF.*
> *But to support you somewhat but you do have a point, an INFP can literally talk themselves sick. Oh dear lord, they can really pity and victimize themselves. An INTP is less prone to this* *and is more detached*.
> ...


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## Awex (Dec 18, 2012)

By explaining telling someone how you feel feeling bluntly and straight to the point, I do in fact mean rationally and logicially. If you're able to easily explain what you're feeling, why you're feeling it and how the other person is causing you to feel that way you're almost definetly not an INTP.

F types are very rational and logical when it comes explaining their feelings imo. Where as I, on the extreme side of thinking, will get upset over things other people don't even notice let alone care about and brush off things that would cause others alot of distress.

I also tend to get bogged down in depression, but it's often a result of not even knowing what I'm actually feeling. Once I make a conscious effort to get over those feelings it's easy for me, until then I'm hopeless.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

I don't think I have a clear set of values and morals just yet, I am 18 and still in a developing phase, plus I tend to poke fun at certain morals sometimes as well (especially when it comes to relationships) so that seems like it would end up in a T zone, since an F would be more respectful towards most morals, it seems. I'm kind of free spirited, and at times fuck-it-all, and that is influenced by a period of thinking. IMO.

Plus, I dislike many people my age, especially more-extraverted types that conclude and judge quickly based off of image, without any rational logic. (Like for example, an E type judging anyone based off of the music they listen to, or what they do for a living)
So I tend to poke fun at people and their actions a lot. I can come off as an insensitive asshole a lot, but one thing that is F about my approach to making fun of people is that I generally avoid it unless I know that person well, or know them well enough to make fun of them rationally.

Nevertheless, my sense of humor is very sarcastic and at times offensive, with is also influenced by thinking, so I would consider that a T (with maybe some F or S sub-characteristics in spades).

Plus, I am sometimes inclined, if someone is making themself sound really stupid and narcissistic, to tell them to kill themself, even though I don't believe suicide is right. That seems like the almost polar opposite of F to me.

That being said, I am a noob when it comes to this stuff. So who knows. I will take your external knowledge into consideration and build on from it. THAT ITSELF seems very T to me, actually, since an F type will stand by whatever they think based off of how they feel on it, without taking other resources into consideration.

So based off of all of that, I am leaning towards INTP with mild T characteristics. Continue analyzing though, this is really interesting.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> That being said, I am a noob when it comes to this stuff. So who knows. I will take your external knowledge into consideration and build on from it. THAT ITSELF seems very T to me, actually, since an F type will stand by whatever they think based off of how they feel on it, without taking other resources into consideration.


Well, no. Then you've misunderstood MBTI.
Truth is, I think you're a bit afraid of being a feeler, but that's my take on it.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

In a way it's hard for me to believe I am leaning towards F instead of T, since I overthink things all the time. I'm not THAT rational, actually, I am to an extent. I'm just leaning towards more rational views. I forgot to add that. Plus, adding my insensitive sense of humor into the mix, that doesn't really connect to F for me. 

But you guys are the experts, so....


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> In a way it's hard for me to believe I am leaning towards Fe instead of Ti, since I overthink things all the time. I'm not THAT rational, actually, I am to an extent. I'm just leaning towards more rational views. I forgot to add that. Plus, adding my insensitive sense of humor into the mix, that doesn't really connect to Fe for me.
> 
> But you guys are the experts, so....


Being a T has nothing to do with being rational, smart, insensitive etc. F has nothing to do with being irrational, stupid, drama-queen/king.

Fe can be really harsh, it connects to the surrounding social atmosphere and thus if people are happy, the person is happy, if people are grumpy, the person is grumpy.
Fi is quite the opposite and will stay independent from the surrounding social atmosphere.

It doesn't matter where in the stack the function is, you still are a Fe/Fi user.
Inferior Fe/Fi users are however sensitive about their values and if the values are broken they don't know as well how to defend the values.
An example that I keep bringing out to explain inferior Fe is when I told my INTP friend that starving children in Africa helps to counter over-population. At the time we had just had a long lecture with an SFP teacher about poverty etc. and when I gave that comment to my friend, he couldn't handle the moral questionability of what I said that he was basically thorn apart inside about how to react.
Someone with a stronger value function wouldn't have been so effected of what I had said or they would know how to talk against me.

And yes, sometimes I'm in the mood to just piss people off by saying something taboo to open their minds to different ways of seeing things.

You could see the position of the functions as level of efficiency of use.
Ti is more about consistency in ideas etc and Te is more about objective measurement.

Jung explained that all inferior functions are irrational in a way that they cause emotional outbursts.

ITP

Naomi says the following

Inferior function (Fe):
Triggers for the Inferior Function
• Strong emotional expressions
• Disconfirmations of Feeling values
• Insensitivity to Introversion needs


Forms of the Grip Experience
• Logic emphasized to an extreme
• Hypersensitivity to relationships
• Emotionalism

INJ

Naomi's definition of the inferior
Inferior function (Se):
Triggers for the Inferior Function
• Dealing with details
• Unexpected events
• Excessive extraverting


Forms of the Grip Experience
• Obsessive focus on external data
• Overindulgence in sensual pleasure
• Adversarial attitude toward the outer world


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

I retook the Jung-MB test with my counselor, got INTJ (judging was only 1%), then reevaluated some of the questions she disagreed on and answered those particular questions in my perspective (or how I really feel about them), and I got INTP again. Weird.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> I retook the Jung-MB test with my counselor, got INTJ (judging was only 1%), then reevaluated some of the questions she disagreed on and answered those particular questions in my perspective (or how I really feel about them), and I got INTP again. Weird.


Tests tell you want you want to hear. It's like asking your reflection if you look good and then expecting an honest reply.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

So based off of everything I have said in this thread, the premise seems to be I am INFP, am I correct?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> So based off of everything I have said in this thread, the premise seems to be I am INFP, am I correct?


That's not my opinion. If you were, you'd already have some strong values.
Truth is tho, we can't tell you what type you are, you are the one that really knows that. We can give you information tho.

Here's the one for IFPs:

Inferior function (Te):
Triggers for the Inferior Function
• Negativity and excessive criticism
• Fear of impending loss and separation
• Violation of values


Forms of the Grip Experience
• Judgments of incompetence
• Aggressive criticism
• Precipitous action


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## empathos (Dec 19, 2012)

You may have seen these already, but reading different descriptions has helped me in the past.
INFP - personalitypage.com/INFP. html
INTP - personalitypage.com/INTP. html

I can't post links yet, sorry for the format.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

Well based off of the two tests, correct me if I am misunderstood, but:

I am definitely more introverted (I am more private with my thoughts therefore they are going inward, as opposed to extraverted where thoughts more put out) 
I have some sensing characteristics (like I learn pretty well practically and with my senses) but I also have attention deficit, and I was trained to learn this way during my childhood, so if this were to be treated or improved, I think I really deep down have a more intuitive side (since I think problems through explicitly, think about the future more than the past, I am very theoretical at the core) so I agree with intuitive.
I already explained why I feel like I'm more of a thinker than a feeler.
And I am more open minded and less structured, so I think I lean more towards perceiving than judging.

Therefore, I would conclude I am an INTP, based on the impression of myself based off of current preoccupations and future planning of my well being, contrasted.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Well, considering that your perception of what was F and what was T, it's a bit inaccurate and considering that Js aren't closed mined and structured then there's a bit of an issue there as well.

Truth is tho, be whatever type you want, this isn't the "force a type onto me" section.


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## magi83 (Sep 25, 2012)

Maybe you're neither?

I also tested 'borderline INTP/INFP' but there is really no such thing. INTPs are Ti dominant so Fi is their EIGHTH function. Vice versa for INFPs. So the two are very different.

Borderline T/F may simply be exposing the limitations of the test, you projecting how you would _like_ to act rather than your natural preference and/or a manifestation of learned behaviour but it could also be an indicator that you are not a dominant thinker/feeler but you are actually a dominant perceiver (most likely Ni) with secondary and tertiary thinking/feeling. This is where J/P gets a little confusing because INFJ/INTJs are actually dominant perceivers. They are Js because their judging function is extroverted. 

Of the two Ni doms I would say that INFJs are the more likely to display traits ordinarily characteristic of Ps. With auxiliary Te to the INFJ's auxiliary Fe, I think that INTJs (on the whole) tend to be more effective at implementing their ideas.

Some aspects of my general behaviour scream P (and this always shows up in the tests) and I think this can be attributed to how introverted I am. I often feel trapped in my head and struggle to concentrate on the details of the external world for very long. But when I have bursts of intense activity my 'J' side manifests itself quite clearly. I just need structure to keep me anchored to the real world.


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

I actually think you sound like an F as well. INFP in particular. I will first start by addressing spots in your reasoning where I think your understanding of T vs. F could be bettered. 



> I overthink everything, and am always looking for answers and solutions.


Just because you use the word "overthink", does not mean this is the thinking function at play. F's can certainly overthink a lot of things. It just depends on what they're overthinking. Thinking (in the MBTI sense) is about conceptual/impersonal reasoning. It tells you whether something is or isn't. An example of overthinking in the T sense would be repeatedly running through the steps of a problem you're not sure if you got right on a math test. Feeling on the other hand is about evaluation, so it deals with whether you like as opposed to dislike, see something as good as opposed to bad, see something as meaningful as opposed to not meaningful. Generally, an F overthinking (or just an F function) may involve difficulty weighing importance or considering how you or others will be affected by one of your actions on an emotional level. You should keep these distinctions in mind. 



> I am anti generic/conventional, and differ from the norm in terms of feeling and insight.


This hints at your evaluation. I'm not saying this is Fi, but it definitely could be as a result.



> I can get emotionally attached to people I admire easily.


Feeling



> Can describe and percieve emotions and feelings well, and can sympathize well, if I can relate to them. If someone is upset over something that I don't think is really a big deal, I can't relate, therefore I can't sympathize.


Feeling



> Think society is superficial, shallow, and lacks logic and rationale. Sometimes, while respecting it, can argue or question someone's opinion if I am unsure or disagree.


Again, an evaluative statement. I've heard the same from inferior Fe, but this sounds more like dominant Fi to me.



> Write everything I think about myself and my feelings down to keep track of my well being.
> I'm slowly becoming more of an emotional person as the years go on (I actually choked up for the first time in public, today)


Feeling



> I don't think I have a clear set of values and morals just yet, I am 18 and still in a developing phase, plus I tend to poke fun at certain morals sometimes as well (especially when it comes to relationships) so that seems like it would end up in a T zone, since an F would be more respectful towards most morals, it seems. I'm kind of free spirited, and at times fuck-it-all, and that is influenced by a period of thinking. IMO.


So you poke fun at certain morals? So do I. An F would NOT necessarily be respectful towards most morals, Fi in particular. Fi dominants may often question certain morals they deem useless out there running rampant in society. Again, the above is suggestive of evaluation. F's aren't always nice, lovey dovey, nor care a lot about people all the time. I also like Louis CK and George Carlin too btw.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

I took the 16 type test, and got INTP on the first try. I really do think I have feeling characteristics, that are slowly getting stronger, but I think thinking overweighs it. So I am believing more and more that I am INTP. Maybe not such a "hardcore" INTP since they can argue their points across much more than I can.

I've wondered if Louis C.K. or George Carlin were an INTP or INTJ. They seem very intuitive, and at times introverted, yet appear judgemental towards certain morals (albeit leaning towards a more rational way), or seem like perceivers based on their flexibility and how they seem to work in spurts of energy.

I've also wondered if Louis is an INFP as well.

A little off topic, but carry on.


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## LeChanteuse (Dec 14, 2012)

I actually just came out of an INTP/INFP funk yesterday (being a borderline INFP with high Te use - I was often mistaken for INTP in my youth!), so here's my suggestion: have you tested your cognitive functions (like Ti vs. Te)? And as a second point, have you also checked out how you react to your inferior function, since this is the weakest function that you normally use?

In this case, I recommend going to a site like this (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/135-MBTI-Form-of-the-Inferior) and see how you tend to react towards your weakest function (Fe for INTPs and Te for INFPs). That's what helped me out, anyway. :happy:


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

I won't lie; being a noob, I don't quite understand what inferior vs dominant function is, or what terms like Ti, Ne, Fe, Fi, etc. mean.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

LeChanteuse said:


> I actually just came out of an INTP/INFP funk yesterday (being a borderline INFP with high Te use - I was often mistaken for INTP in my youth!), so here's my suggestion: have you tested your cognitive functions (like Ti vs. Te)? And as a second point, have you also checked out how you react to your inferior function, since this is the weakest function that you normally use?
> 
> In this case, I recommend going to a site like this and see how you tend to react towards your weakest function (Fe for INTPs and Te for INFPs). That's what helped me out, anyway. :happy:


Did you happen to get INTP results on your tests?


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## LeChanteuse (Dec 14, 2012)

Actually, the first time I took an MBTI test online (not PerC, which btw I hear is not necessarily accurate, as I would say with all online tests) I got INTP. But I noticed over the years that I'm too emotional to be INTP, so I don't go by the tests anymore - I go through the cognitive functions (which are basically the different ways that we process both abstract and concrete ideas). 

So, for example:
- Te (extroverted thinking): logically organizes and sees consistency with things in the external world
- Ti (introverted thinking): logically organizes and sees consistency with internal ideas

And so on with intuition, sensing, and feeling. I would love to post some links, but since I'm on my mobile device, I would recommend searching the general MBTI forums here on PerC and google "inferior MBTI function" - I'm sure others can interject on this issue.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

thunder said:


> @_sinsandsecrets_ -- of all the things you have listed that you believe about people and society, what sort of things do you see yourself doing or participating in with other people to "walk the talk"?


Honestly, I'm not really sure. I'm still in the process of figuring myself out, and haven't found myself in many of these situations yet, but I can tell you that I won't usually make empty promises, and always try to back up my actions.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

Neuroticon said:


> I've got a question. What do you believe in?


I also listed some things I believed in on my OP, if you wanted to look at that as well.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

@sinsandsecrets -- in your cognitive function commentary, for Fi you said you "try to consider the importance and always try to evaluate something based on truth". What do you consider to be truth(s)? 

For Ni you say that you are "always envisioning what may be and transformations of anything." Can you give an example or two?


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

thunder said:


> @_sinsandsecrets_ -- in your cognitive function commentary, for Fi you said you "try to consider the importance and always try to evaluate something based on truth". What do you consider to be truth(s)?
> 
> For Ni you say that you are "always envisioning what may be and transformations of anything." Can you give an example or two?


Well for Ni, for example, I can pinpoint certain traits in a person or thing, see what they were in the past, and how they may develop in the future based on their well being in the moment, how it developed, and also based on patterns.

What I meant by evaluating things based on truth, and I may not be explaining this accurately, but I mean when I have a belief on something I try to put as much logic into it as possible so it seems accurate. Sometimes my feelings may collide, but eventually they adapt.

I hope that helps.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> What I meant by evaluating things based on truth, and I may not be explaining this accurately, but I mean when I have a belief on something I try to put as much logic into it as possible so it seems accurate. Sometimes my feelings may collide, but eventually they adapt.


Do you think you can give a specific example of a belief that you imposed logic on?


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

thunder said:


> Do you think you can give a specific example of a belief that you imposed logic on?


Well earlier I was thinking to myself if personalities changed throughout life, or if it was just traits that changed and not the personalities, so I looked it up and found out the core parts do not change, but the changes are the roles and issues that matter most to that person. That made sense to me, logically, so I applied it to my beliefs. 

It is still an open belief/conclusion, however.

Is that a good example?


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

If someone you care about and knows you well came to you in tears and distraught because of a break in a relationship (with their family or SO), what would you do?


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

I would try to help them, but if it sounded silly to me or lacked logic, I would find it silly. I would try to work through the problem either way, yet I would express my opinion.

However, you implied that I would care about that person, so I would be concerned, definitely.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

Take a look at these two posts and then give some commentary on your thoughts regarding Fi/Fe Ti/Te:

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...-theory-about-fe-ti-vs-fi-te.html#post2176592
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/87452-je-ji-application-vs-truth.html#post2162824


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

Quoting @_Angelic Gardevoir_ here, I think her post made so much sense:

"Fe/Ti or Ti/Fe will be interested in their own logical theories, which may or may not be applicable to reality. Meanwhile, they apply their feeling to the outside world. They want a way to deal with other people.

*In contrast, Fi/Te or Te/Fi are interested in their personal values, which may or may not be applicable to other people. Meanwhile, they apply logic to the outside world. They want an understanding of how the world works so that they can accomplish goals."
*
The bolded sounds very much like me. _I think. _I definitely want an understanding of how the world works so I can figure out and accomplish my goals. I do try to apply logic to the outside world, especially when solving problems.

Although I do think I have some minor-moderate bouts of Fe. I can almost adapt to other environments, even when uncomfortable. Like for example, some group of dudes will be talking about how much they externally like some girl (i.e. talk about how hot she is and how hard they'd bang her) and start rating her on a scale of 1-10. When I'm involved, I will rate, or add some commentary directly towards the premise of it, but sometimes I may confront them about it and say "oh it doesn't matter" or some sort of blah since I don't always pay attention to the external.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

OK. Now, going back to compare Ni to Si, since you indicated in your cognitive function commentary you relate to both of them pretty well... Do you think Ni or Si better describes how you perceive things? 

These may help: 
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/98139-model-ni-si.html#post2464593
http://personalitycafe.com/infj-for...aith-systems-vs-faith-models.html#post1937653
Map Metaphor: On Ni+Se vs Si+Ne


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

thunder said:


> OK. Now, going back to compare Ni to Si, since you indicated in your cognitive function commentary you relate to both of them pretty well... Do you think Ni or Si better describes how you perceive things?
> 
> These may help:
> http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/98139-model-ni-si.html#post2464593
> ...


Based on what I read about INTP's and how they use introverted sensing, and the links above, I think I'm more Si (although on the faith in models thread, changing the models to fit the system seemed more attuned to me), but more Si especially since I do tend to leave things around the house, and when I'm not really using them, they're just left around and they do become almost invisible to me, and whenever I smell something, it almost takes me back to a time where I first encountered that scent, or established a scent that is connected to a memorable situation in my past.

I also like photography, and sometimes tend to analyze the premise of it.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

If your answers regarding the contrasting cognitive function pairs are accurate, in summary you favor 
Fi/Te over Fe/Ti 
and
Si/Ne over Se/Ni

As such, the possible combinations for Fi, Te, Si, and Ne are:

INFP: Fi Ne Si Te
ENFP: Ne Fi Te Si
ISTJ: Si Te Fi Ne
ESTJ: Te Si Ne Fi

My personal opinion _at the moment_ is either INFP or ISTJ. I lean more towards you being an INFP who may be more closely tied to your inferior Te due to the multiple disorders you mentioned, life happenings/situations, or both. Your lengthy post describing the different things you believe in struck me as either an INFJ on a mission to change things in society or an INFP in a grip experience with an angry emerging Te. There is also the possibility of you being an ISTJ. An ISTJ doesn't necessarily hold to tradition -- if they find a better model than what is traditionally known, they will make use of it. 

In regards to your the INTP possibility. An INTP's cognitive line up is Ti Ne Si Fe, and you clearly favored Te/Fi over Ti/Fe when asked to consider the judging functions as a pair rather than individually.

You desire to see your logic and ideas implemented, and Ti users often don't care as strongly about applying their logic to the world to push for change as a Te-user would. Speaking only for myself as one Ti-dom user, when I read your post on the different things you believe, my thought was "Who cares? Yeah, this sucks and all, and I can see his pov and understand his arguments, but I'm not going to put in the effort to try to change people/society to be more 'logical'." I feel like an INTP would be delighted to debate and argue about the societal, political, etc issues you wrote about, but it's often more for expanding their understanding of the complexity of the issues rather than to understand such that they can take action.

In your initial commentary on the cognitive functions, your comment for Ti is that you like to clarify definitions and look for inconsistencies. This is not to say that an Fi user doesn't do the same -- an Fi user would also want to clarify definitions and look for inconsistencies, but to a different end. 

Just my thoughts, not truths.

*Other PerC members, please correct me where I am being imprecise or incorrect.*.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> more Si especially since I do tend to leave things around the house, and when I'm not really using them, they're just left around and they do become almost invisible to me


Si doesn't really correlate to leaving things around the house.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

thunder said:


> If your answers regarding the contrasting cognitive function pairs are accurate, in summary you favor
> Fi/Te over Fe/Ti
> and
> Si/Ne over Se/Ni
> ...


Actually, I feel like I was a little inaccurate and unprecise in my post. I don't feel like changing society, I mean, I feel like it would be better, and often times wish society was better, but I think I am more attuned to my thoughts more even though I will debate about it frequently. The more I think about it, I am actually fascinated by the continuous development of society and it's approach to feelings more than logic, so I am interested to see how things go from there, even though I feel negatively about it.

Also, there have been INTPs with high Fi. I think my unfortunate situation in the past may have developed that, in some way. I also mentioned that I wasn't sure about my Fi or Fe (it was a tough call), I also mentioned I wasn't really sure about Te, now when I look at it I do check for consequences, do usually decide if something is working or not once I dig deep enough. However I do analyze frequently, and do clarify definitions, so I'm still leaning towards Te, but now I'm not so sure.

Sorry if there was any confusion.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

Yeah, yeah, cool. You;ve got enough of a headway to keep exploring and reflecting. Good luck!


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

sinsandsecrets said:


> Also, there have been INTPs with high Fi.


Nope, but there have been INTPs with inferior Fe tho and sometimes that seems a bit like Fi.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

thunder said:


> Yeah, yeah, cool. You;ve got enough of a headway to keep exploring and reflecting. Good luck!


This seemed very sarcastic at first, until you added in good luck. Lol.

I did state that I overthought everything at the beginning of this thread, which indicates a dominant Ti. Based on that, I may lean towards Ti more now. I also analyzed my intuition a little more, tough call there, but I may be leaning towards Ne ("being drawn to change 'what is' for 'what could possibly be' kind of got me here).

So, based on all of that, I have a lineup of Si Ne Ti Fi, for a tested INTP.


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## thunder (Jun 15, 2011)

Like @_allisreal_ said once: overthinking =/= Ti (or Te)
Any type can overthink for various reasons, using different functions. 

To be honest, I'm not comfortable with the particular manner that you seem to be interpreting the descriptions of the cognitive functions or correlating functions with traits that don't correlate exclusively, or not even. _This is not to say that you couldn't possibly be an INTP._ I do think you have a _very strong bias_ toward INTP that is coloring the way you are judging things. There's a flip-floppy manner you seem to be playing with cog funcs to get a INTPish result, especially after being told what an INTP's cog func line-up is. While you can attribute that to not understanding the actual meaning of the cog funcs, which is not unusual, it feels very suspect that you change your understanding of yourself or the cog func definitions so quickly to go from Fi/Te to Ti/Fe, without asking questions or seeking for clarification, examples, or verification of understanding (a) cognitive function(s).

Admittedly I do not know your mental processing nor the time span a "normal" person needs to understand cognitive functions deeply and then reflect on themselves to determine how their mental processing works. What I say is simply my observations. I tell you them because I think you should be aware, if you aren't aware already, because sometimes it is our own biases and the consequences of our biases that we are blind to and blinded by.

But in the end, whatever floats your boat! I'm done with this thread. Cheers.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

Well I am starting to lean towards INFP, if I decide that I'm Te that could be the deciding factor.

Also keep in mind, I wasn't 100% sure about my cognitive functions, which was why I speculated further. Also, I think I was somewhat biased towards INTP mainly because I did have ways of being blunt and direct moreso than trying to connect with someone (unless I deeply cared about that person or could relate to what that person was going through), and usually help people out by giving them logical advice more.

But I do think my chances of being an NF are increasing. I didn't understand the cognitive functions 100%, so I could use some help with that.

*I took the Keirsey and got INTJ. So far, every test has me at an NT. Interesting.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

@_scorpion_, @_Awex_, @_All in Twilight_, @_allisreal_, @Acerbusvenator, I know some of you may be getting sick of this thread, but I took a closer look at Ti vs Te and Fi vs Fe, and am having trouble deciding which is more like me as a whole since there is a lot of overlapping between the two each (bolded seems more like me)

*Extraverted Feeling* - (Fe)*


*The process of extraverted Feeling often involves a desire to connect with (or disconnect from) others and is often evidenced by expressions of warmth (or displeasure) and self-disclosure.*




The "social graces," such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling.
*Keeping in touch, laughing at jokes when others laugh,* and trying to get people to act kindly to each other also involve extraverted Feeling.
Using this process, we respond according to expressed or even unexpressed wants and needs of others.
*We may ask people what they want or need or self-disclose to prompt them to talk more about themselves.*
This often sparks conversation and lets us know more about them so we can better adjust our behavior to them.
Often with this process, we feel pulled to be responsible and take care of others' feelings, sometimes to the point of not separating our feelings from theirs.
We may recognize and adhere to shared values, feelings, and *social norms to get along.

**Introverted Feeling* - (Fe)*


It is often hard to assign words to the values used to make introverted Feeling judgments since they are often associated with images, feeling tones, and gut reactions more than words.
As a cognitive process, it often serves as a filter for information that matches what is valued, wanted, or worth believing in.




*There can be a continual weighing of the situational worth or importance of everything and a patient balancing of the core issues of peace and conflict in life's situations.*
We engage in the process of introverted Feeling when a value is compromised and we think, *"Sometimes, some things just have to be said."*
On the other hand, most of the time this process works "in private" and is expressed through actions.
*It helps us know when people are being fake or insincere or if they are basically good.* It is like having an internal sense of the "essence" of a person or a project and reading fine distinctions among feeling tones.

*Extraverted Thinking* - (Te)*


Contingency planning, scheduling, and quantifying utilize the process of extraverted Thinking.
Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on.




At its most sophisticated, this process is about organizing and monitoring people and things to work efficiently and productively.
Empirical thinking is at the core of extraverted Thinking when we *challenge someone's ideas based on the logic of the facts in front of us or lay out reasonable explanations for decisions or conclusions made,* often trying to establish order in someone else's thought process.
In written or verbal communication, extraverted Thinking helps us easily follow someone else's logic, sequence, or organization.
*It also helps us notice when something is missing, like when someone says he or she is going to talk about four topics and talks about only three.*
In general, it allows us to compartmentalize many aspects of our lives so we can do what is necessary to accomplish our objectives.

*Introverted Thinking* - (Ti)*


Introverted Thinking often involves *finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point.*
Using introverted Thinking is like having an* internal sense of the essential qualities of something,* *noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it.*




It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories ofclasses and sub-principles of general principles.
These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea.
*This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work.*
*The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency.*
In so doing, we search for a "leverage point" that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system.
We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what's observed.

I forgot to mention I do observe the external world a lot, but I do observe my internal world as well sometimes and I've wondered if I could have the best of both worlds when it comes to Ti/Te or even Fi/Fe. Is that even possible? Thoughts?


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

I think that it is important to distinguish F and T first. I don't entirely agree with the stated facts you handed out in your post so I discard them all.

The labels "Thinker" and "Feeler" are not descriptive of what those people do. Thinkers are not smarter than Feelers, nor are Feelers more sensitive. Thinkers have feelings, and Feelers are able to reason logically. The fundamental difference is the values they hold in highest esteem: *Thinkers* give priority to *Truth and Justice*; Feelers give priority to *relationships* and *affirmation*. That's the only difference, and it only applies when truth and affirmation are at odds, which tends to be more often than some people would like to admit. I would consider the labels unfortunate, except that any labels would soon develop the same or similar problems.

Personally I incorporate (the perfect) truth in order to establish perfect relationships. This means that I will have to hurt a few people but I know that they will benefit from it in the future. Now I come off as an NT IRL and on this forum (ENTP) but I am actually an NF because in the end it is all about relationships (based on Truth<---->perfect values) Perfect relationships based on the perfect values will lead to a perfect society. Justice becomes obsolete.

I hope this will give you some more insight.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

All in Twilight said:


> I think that it is important to distinguish F and T first. I don't entirely agree with the stated facts you handed out in your post so I discard them all.
> 
> The labels "Thinker" and "Feeler" are not descriptive of what those people do. Thinkers are not smarter than Feelers, nor are Feelers more sensitive. Thinkers have feelings, and Feelers are able to reason logically. The fundamental difference is the values they hold in highest esteem: *Thinkers* give priority to *Truth and Justice*; Feelers give priority to *relationships* and *affirmation*. That's the only difference, and it only applies when truth and affirmation are at odds, which tends to be more often than some people would like to admit. I would consider the labels unfortunate, except that any labels would soon develop the same or similar problems.
> 
> ...


I am figuring out my Ti/Te and Fi/Fe dilemma (as well as Ni/Ne) right now. This may very well determine my type.

I think I understood before that feelers were more sensitive than thinkers, or thinkers were more logical than feelers, though.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Fi - My sister felt that I posted something unethical, so she told me to remove it.
Fe - My mother tried to joke with me by playing angry and I reacted with becoming scared and angry for real.
Ti - I tell my INTP friend something and he accepts it, but after a short while he starts come up with a counter suggestion.
Te - I tell my father something and he points out why it's unachievable.

My sister being an ESFP and my father an ISTJ.

Felt that it was good to add some examples of the functions.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

I am concluding that I am Ti, Si (this one I am almost 100% sure about) and MAYBE Ne (I do like to explore ideas with people, this is a trait of Ne correct?) but still having trouble deciding whether or not I am Fi/Fe.

Here's one example of possible Fe: when I am working on a computer system or software (installing an OS, taking it apart, etc.) I am imagining how the parts work and how it feels to be a part of them or actually them and the components interacting, or how they will interact with each other. I am having trouble understanding how electrical components function, somewhat, because I literally interpret how I feel they interact as a whole and with other components, which can get confusing because when I am studying EXACTLY HOW they work, it still doesn't depict what it is in my head. I try to put myself in that shoe. Is this an alternative example of Fe?

I do know when to laugh at a joke (I usually fake-chuckle at the least), or when someone's sad, angry, etc. But I have a sense of Fi, mainly standing by something I think is the truth and someone may denote it, and try to have me lean towards a more sensitive opinion, but I stand still (unless something seems more logical to me).

If both examples are accurate, which one seems more like me?


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## Owner Of A Lonely Heart (Jun 5, 2012)

sinsandsecrets said:


> I've taken the myers-briggs test about 5 times already and have gotten different results, the latest being INTP after tons of tweaking and thinking, but have went back and forth between INTP and INFP and it is a very close call. But I think a lot(overthink things through/contemplate a lot) leading me to lean towards a T a little more than an F, although I have some F characteristics. The 3 questions that seemed to be the tipping point between an F and a T was "You are strongly touched by stories about people's troubles" which really was in the middle for me; I can get moved slightly if it's something I think is really fucked up, but then again, people tend to exaggerate about their issues sometimes which can annoy me, so sometimes I just brush it off. Then there was about me sympathizing with other people, it was worded as "you tend to sympathize" which isn't always the case, sometimes I can't relate to how someone is feeling because of my differing from the norm persona, then again, other times I can, so I'd say I'm in the middle there as well. The interesting thing though is that there was a similar question asking if I empathized with other people's concerns, or from what I can comprehend, is basically understanding and feeling concern or sadness to someone's issues (something psychologists are good at? just an ametur perception) which I am actually somewhat decent at. The last one was my emotions affecting my actions, which is usually the case unless I push myself, in which sometimes I have no choice. But overall, I would lean towards that being a yes, that my emotions affect my short term actions, but not long term.
> 
> I'm kind of a noob when it comes to this personality type stuff, I just got into it. But here's a little about me:
> 
> ...


based solely on this, you sound spot on like myself an INFP. I over think everything. i am usually pretty laid back though that could be from my tomboy nature or sagittarius self. i'm very optimistic with life and bluntly honest and open about most things in life. I think i have inattentive ADD. i'm easily distracted. I might also have asperger's sydrome or OCD, not in the cleaning sense though mostly more anxiety issues.

what i put in bold is the only thing that doesn't necessarily reside with my INFP nature. i'm a strong feeler so logic is sometimes a stranger to me and doesn't always seem needed, but i value your perspective.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

Owner Of A Lonely Heart said:


> based solely on this, you sound spot on like myself an INFP. I over think everything. i am usually pretty laid back though that could be from my tomboy nature or sagittarius self. i'm very optimistic with life and bluntly honest and open about most things in life. I think i have inattentive ADD. i'm easily distracted. I might also have asperger's sydrome or OCD, not in the cleaning sense though mostly more anxiety issues.
> 
> what i put in bold is the only thing that doesn't necessarily reside with my INFP nature. i'm a strong feeler so logic is sometimes a stranger to me and doesn't always seem needed, but i value your perspective.


Thanks for your insight, and I was leaning on NF earlier today. There still is a possibility, and you being an NF increases your speculation accuracy of me since you know yourself well (or seem to). 

I don't think I explained that right...


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

I am now in an Ni/Ne funk.

Does it seem like I am using more Ne in the process of figuring out my type, since I am trying to come up with different possibilities to search for a solution while searching for some validity as well?

And even that doesn't generalize whether or not I am more Ne.

I sometimes do improve components of certain things, although I'm not really sure how.

I feel like I'm Ni in some situations as well, I can't really explain why though. 

Could any of you give me some examples? Maybe @Acerbusvenator could help me out a little?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

The basics of T vs F is, do you tend to make judgements based upon their factual value, or their social value? 

Maybe this link will help. This guy is very in-depth.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> The basics of T vs F is, do you tend to make judgements based upon their factual value, or their social value?
> 
> Maybe this link will help. This guy is very in-depth.


I've already spotted the differences between T/F. Thanks though, I got a better understanding of some of the other ones.


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

UPDATE: I was a little vague in my Ni/Ne concern, to describe it better:

I tend to use Ni (I think) when I am concerned about something. I tend to experiment here.
I tend to use Ne (I think) when I am interested about something. I can come up with all these ideas, maybe a little slower than some people use Ne (unless I may be also concerned/interested, then I'm not sure whether I use Ne/Ni)


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## pushit (Dec 20, 2012)

This may be a pointless post, but I wanted to mention that for now, I am concluding I am an INTP, mainly because:

I like theory, and digging deeper into detail.
I like the idea of thinking outside the box.
I am always observing; internally and externally.
I am sometimes afraid to let my emotions show, so I try to hold them back as best as possible.
I have strong Si and Ti.
I overthink and analyze almost everything.
I believe knowledge is power, and think in order to get somewhere in life you need as much of it as possible.
I am very rational, or at least try to be.
I am not very structured.
Enjoy having a wide circle of aquaintances, but mainly for the sake of observing them to gain knowledge and insight for how I feel about society.
My sense of humor is observational; I can come up with weird ideas and scenarios while poking fun at something, I sometimes rhyme words and weave them together in sentences for comedic effect as well (for example, there was a cat who did nothing but eat crap, he got so fat that all he did was nap) This seems Ne to me. 
My Fe comes into play when I am working; I try hard not to fail, almost perfectionist-esque.
I usually try to consider other people's values.
I tend to live inside my head; if something makes sense to me in my head, I will understand it. When I am doing a hands on activity, I quickly analyze how something will work in my head. 
I am introverted; I conceal myself in new situations, it sometimes takes me a while to adapt to new ones, and usually keep certain thoughts and feelings to myself when I am uncomfortable (unless in an important situation).
Even though I want to live a peaceful life with love, I also like the idea of having some adventure (like traveling) and be more creative in my interests and the things that I do.


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