# Black swan!



## majestic beauty (Feb 23, 2011)

who saw this movie?

What did you think about it, did you enjoy it, could you relate to it? 

What do you think Nina and lilly's personality types are?


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

I think Nina is an ixxj and Lilly is some kind of exxp. Don't quote me on that. I think Lilly is Nina's "shadow" i.e. the 'back swan'. 



> White swans in dreams are symbolic of cleansing and purifying ourselves and our lives. Black swans indicate deep mysteries within us that are longing to be set free to express themselves creatively – perhaps as Bridgid would have us do, in poetry or music.


I think it is a very symbolic film dealing with integrating the various parts of the self to become complete (animus and shadow). Or at least, becoming whole as a person through individuation and death. The symbolism is very rich, though I was not surprised. If people were to look at the film from that standpoint rather than seeing Nina as a "mental case" I think most people could be able to relate to this film and the inner journey.


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## Thrifty Walrus (Jul 8, 2010)

I quite liked the movie, but I love Tchaikovsky so I'd be hard pressed to not like it. As for the types, I'd go Nina ISFJ, Lily EXFP, and for the main instructor guy I see as ISTP for some reason, maybe ESTP. And the mom an unhealthy ESFJ.


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## Happens (Mar 2, 2011)

I very much enjoyed the movie, great story, lovely music, beautiful dancers. Though I did not enjoy trying to explain to the friends that had joined me to see it, what happened at the end. It completely confused them, they didn't understand the "WHY" behind it. Great movie!


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## HorribleAesthete (Aug 5, 2010)

I very much enjoyed this film. The eye of the duck moment, the finale...I do not want to give away to much here, but the catharsis, the transformation, in the final scene was breathtaking. I found the film consistently well done throughout, with fantastic performances all around, though none approaching Portman's. 

As for characters, I would go with maybe ISTJ, maybe, for Nina. Hard to type her really, considering her mental state. Definitely introverted (100%), definitely judging. Definitely unhealthy. Out of control, striving for perfection and control of her world. 

Lily, ESFP, in my opinion:



> Others usually see ESFPs as resourceful and supportive, as well as gregarious, playful, and spontaneous. ESFPs get a lot of satisfaction out of life and are fun to be around. Their exuberance and enthusiasm draw others to them. They are flexible, adaptable, congenial, and easygoing. They seldom plan ahead, trusting their ability to respond in the moment and deal effectively with whatever presents itself. They dislike structure and routine and will generally find ways to bend the rules.


Like Thrifty Walrus, I tend to see them as opposites, of a sort.


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## L'Empereur (Jun 7, 2010)

I would say Nina is an ISFJ and Lily is an ESTP.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

I enjoyed the movie as well, but most people disagree with me regarding what I think is truly going on at the end.

I want to ask for your opinions, but don't want to spoil the movie for those who haven't yet viewed it.

So...

****SPOILER ALERT!****



Here are my random thoughts about the film:

Why didn't she bleed faster, if she truly stabbed herself? From the time she stabbed herself to the time we actually saw the blood was pretty long, I think. She would not have been able to dance that long with a stab wound in her abdomen (maybe she could, due to adrenaline, but I'm not sure).

I thought most of the crazy things that were happening were in her head. 

I don't think she really died...I think her "death" at the end was actually the metaphorical death of her "white swan" side. Remember that throughout the movie, there were times she thought she was bleeding but wasn't.

I don't think her mother was real - she was Nina's perception of her older self which represented her fear of failure. Remember when Nina "saw" her mother in the audience @ the end of Swan Lake? How did her mother get there? And was her hand still bandaged when she was clapping for Nina? I don't think so...

Nina's transformation from the white swan to the black swan represented her transformation from young, innocent girl to woman. The "white swan", or "innocent 'sweet girl'" died. 

Here are some interesting opinions I found online:
from Can I just say this about "Black Swan"...[SPOILERS] : movies

"The entire film seems to me to be a metaphor for growing up. Nina must find joy in what she's doing for herself - not her mom, not anyone else. She has to get out of her sheltered child-like mindset and live her life and grow into a woman. This is exemplified by the transformation into the Black Swan. She is stepping out from underneath her mother's shelter and control and becoming her own person. She is becoming a woman. The transformation is complete by the end of the film.

Also, the movie works as a metaphor for being an artist and creating art. She has to find what is beautiful and meaningful for her. She throws herself into her work so strongly that it affects her life outside of the performance (Heath Ledger?).

I thought the film worked as a narrative within the film, but also on greater levels (like the two I just mentioned). For this reason I find it to be one of the best films of the year. This is how I interpreted the movie as I was watching it, so I was fascinated to discover upon reading others' reactions that so many people are on the "she died at the end" side of the fence."

"Her hallucinations through out the film make every scene with her unreliable. The mysterious stab wound that no one seemed to notice for a long time (assuming she stabbed herself when she believed to have stabbed Mila Kunis) and being able to perform "perfectly" with a wound make it hard to believe she really died. The only thing that provides evidence that she had died was other people's reaction while she was on the ground with her instructor and Mila Kunis attempting to get help for her, but for all we know she could have hallucinated that as well. I'm sure the director left this question completely open for interpretation on purpose.

In the end of the film you can either find it as a happy ending that she was finally able to become perfect and symbolically the only way she could have done so was to become the character and thus commit "suicide" (meaning she was able to encompass the character completely), or you can find the ending to be sad because she was so delusional that she killed herself trying to be something she never can, perfect."

Thoughts?


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## etherealuntouaswithin (Dec 7, 2010)

An excellent film,I would think Nina is an ISFP,very graceful,sensitive and perfectionisitic in her attempt to master her craft and arise to "perfection".

Lily is likely an ESFP, to whom does not possess the grace,poise and aesthetic involvement of Nina,but rather a palpable and intense sensuousness that probably implies Dom-Se

The instructor seems quite the ESTP,who involves sensual facility and a rather forceful approach to further his students ability.


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## Kilgore Trout (Jun 25, 2010)

Nina: ISFJ?
Lily: EXXP?
Instructor: XXTP

I love how during the film, the viewer does not know what could be real, a paranoid delusion, or an ulterior motive. In the beginning of the film, the ballet instructor bluntly states that the White Swan undergoes a metamorphosis into the Black Swan before becoming free, but we never know who the true swan is. I found myself both hating and loving each character every five minutes. 

That movie was definitely a psychological mind-fuck, while getting under your skin, leaving you to question what you had just witnessed. On the plus side, you can’t go wrong with a strange, hot lesbian muff-diving scene.


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## mickey (Jan 7, 2011)

I liked this movie. It was pretty and exciting.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Kilgore Trout said:


> On the plus side, you can’t go wrong with a strange, hot lesbian muff-diving scene.


I saw the movie with my 18 yr old daughter. *almost died of embarassment during that scene*


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

How do you think she felt?


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

jack london said:


> How do you think she felt?


My daughter? She was about to crawl under her seat to hide. She was mortified - only because she was sitting next to me. I'm sure if she was with friends, she would have been far less embarrassed. 

I asked her to see Blue Valentine with me last weekend. She said "MOM! I heard that movie has graphic sex scenes! I can't see it with YOU!" I had no idea...but I looked it up, and it was pretty close to getting an NC-17 rating. 

Good call on her part. LOL


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

Isn't it weird who we can see movies with and whether or not it bothers us. Like I can't see anything chic-flickie with a guy or manly man with a woman let alone something sexy with my kids. Hmm, this sounds like it could be a good test to see if someone is a good companion if you can see any kind of movie and not be bothered. (I feel a post coming on.)


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

jack london said:


> Isn't it weird who we can see movies with and whether or not it bothers us. Like I can't see anything chic-flickie with a guy or manly man with a woman let alone something sexy with my kids. Hmm, this sounds like it could be a good test to see if someone is a good companion if you can see any kind of movie and not be bothered. (I feel a post coming on.)


I saw No Strings Attached on a second date. I was pretty uncomfortable during the sex scenes. Although...I'm uncomfortable on the first 10 dates or so anyway. lol


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## kiwigrl (Apr 27, 2010)

Brilliant movie. Dark but brilliant. I am guessing that Nina was INFJ. Lily, ExFP.


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## lib (Sep 18, 2010)

I love the wet dream. Don't remember the rest of the movie.


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## cam3llia (Mar 5, 2011)

The movie was okay. Plot wasn't that great.

But I could totally relate to Nina. Overbearing mother also. 

Nina is the perfect representation of how an individual would be if they confirmed/gave in to an authority figure and allowed them ton control their life completely. Her feels/thoughts, desires, any hint of indivdualism was "completely" repressed. Thus, she was an extremely unstable individual, which is why all it took was the slightest force for her to crumble.

Since her personality was extremely unstable due to her repression of her emotions, I don't think she could have been classified as any of the personality types.


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## Oleas (Jul 22, 2010)

Way too predictable. Took away all the fun. The plot and underlying meaning were not subtle at all.

I was very disappointed with this movie, and all the hype and people asking if I saw it or liked are making my feelings towards it even more negative. I mean, seriously. She plays the part of the Swan in Swan Lake, she's the perfect little girl/virgin who hasn't grown up and depends on her mom, and it's literally said that she's too much of a White Swan and needs to get out of her shell. So.. obviously, the rest of the movie is about her growing more and more into the Black Swan. Wow. Didn't expect that at all (sarcasm).


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

I liked that film, but as with most films, I really didn't get a strong handle on the plot, but at least the dancers were sexy.


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## NeedMoreKnowledge (Nov 2, 2010)

Was a great movie, one of my favourite endings that I can think of.


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