# Do you SJs find intuitivess to be extremely annoying?



## AngelOnHerFlight

Hey, so I'm an INFP girl who has some difficulty making consversations with SJs.

I'd share personal thoughts/ideas with them and they'll be like, "What's the point in that?" or "That doesn't make any sense."

I'm just curious to what your thoughts/feelings on intuitives are. Thanks!


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## LeelaWho

As long as some xNxx isn't in my face about how I'm such a stick-in-the-mud ISTJ, then I think they're pretty awesome. My best friend is an INFP and I love hearing her thoughts about things.


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## Owfin

I have a type theory that goes something like this

COOL
OKAY
SUCK

But it doesn't seem to be influenced much by MBTI type.

I tend to find all dominant function thought processes other than Si to be extremely fascinating (I've dealt in Si for approximately my whole life, so you can guess that other functions might look a little more novel).

However, there can be occasionally theoretical disputes. For example, Ne vs Si (or really Extroverted Perception vs Introverted Perception in this case)

Ne: Your own perception is so limited. Look beyond into the true reality.
Si: My perception is reality.
Ne: By that criteria you could claim anything as true.
Si: If you told me there was something in front of me but it would be completely intangible for me and unable to be proven in any way that could be seen by me (including scientific evidence) it does not exist in the reality I exist in. It might exist in some other reality, but not this one.
Ne: So you consider your own opinion to be reality. How narcissistic is that?
Si: On the contrary! Can I perceive reality through any means other than my own brain? Can I consider a thought with a brain other than my own? No, I cannot, so I do not claim that the reality I perceive is the one perceived by anything other than my own brain. 
Ne: Other people have points of view.
Si: And I only hear these points of view through my own ears. Maybe from their point of view, they are really saying "Pie tastes good" and they perceive me as saying back to them "No way, pie sucks!"
Ne: Urgh
Si: Urgh


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## Coburn

I don't type people in real life.

Online, I judge people by the content of their posts, not the four letters under their name. So the whole N vs. S thing has no bearing on how much I get along with someone.


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## Steel Magnolia

@JuliaRhys

I don't.

But I've been questioning that "S" lately...


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## Coburn

LittleB81 said:


> @JuliaRhys
> 
> I don't.
> 
> But I've been questioning that "S" lately...


Don't differentiate people by their S or N type, or don't judge people by the content of their posts?

And what's making you think N for yourself?


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## CyberHiker

DAMN, you are describing my interior conversation while my Ti was on vacation. I mistakenly thought it was Ni while it was just my Si and Ne having a fight.


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## WickedQueen

Stupid people annoys me, not Intuitives.


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## CataclysmSolace

I like to see an intuitive's view of the subject. My best friend is an INTJ(both 5w6 too) and we both go back an forth with our discussions until something else comes up. What annoys me about intuitives is when they don't stop and see my point of view. Rambling on and on isn't going to help. Sure you can make a million and one different ideas, but which one actually works from all that? I guess there is a balance to all.


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## Elveni

cutedeadgal said:


> Hey, so I'm an INFP girl who has some difficulty making consversations with SJs.
> 
> I'd share personal thoughts/ideas with them and they'll be like, "What's the point in that?" or "That doesn't make any sense."
> 
> I'm just curious to what your thoughts/feelings on intuitives are. Thanks!


Nah, INFP's are just awkward in general.


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## NineTypesOfLight

It can be a bit hard to understand their thought process sometimes. Which makes things a bit (or extremely) awkward in some cases. I guess it's something you get used to, though.


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## snapdragons

When I hear "intuitive" I think about pattern recognition. I think being able to be intuitive is important nowadays, because often the changes in our society are precipitated by patterns people don't recognize. I tend to recognize patterns in numbers, or in graphs. Seeing evidence gives me the basis to trust intuition I have. 

I don't think in symbols, or make many logical leaps, and sometimes I get annoyed with myself.


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## Murnando

There's this lie about sensors called a "concrete communication style", by which SJs are described as being people that prefer to dicsuss things that are entirely down to earth. In my experience, this communication style difference exists (because it's just called "interests") but it has little to do with MBTI. 

However, so many people think this about SJs that if they see people talking about fashion or gossiping they make the snap judgement that these people must be SJs, and if the person in question doesn't enjoy talking about fashion or gossiping then they think "Huh, this communication style difference is really jarring, I guess I just don't get on with SJs". That's why we get all this horrible BS on the intuitive forums from people saying they just don't gel with sensors, because their interests are so different, which is of course total crap. 

Some of my best friends are SJ, and their type does make them any less likely to discuss theoretical matters and enjoy suspending their disbelief.


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## Owfin

Murnando said:


> However, so many people think this about SJs that if they see people talking about fashion or gossiping they make the snap judgement that these people must be SJs, and if the person in question doesn't enjoy talking about fashion or gossiping then they think "Huh, this communication style difference is really jarring, I guess I just don't get on with SJs".


Hey, I love talking about fashion... in the artistic sense.


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## SweetPickles

Miss Willow said:


> Nah, INFP's are just awkward in general.


...but endearing


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## MCRTS

Oh no, not at all. I find intuitives intriguing, and I'm also trying to improve on my N. I do think that a well-rounded person will use all his or her functions, even the weaker ones. I guess it helps that I love literature, which is an "intuitive" topic.


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## Elveni

MCRTS said:


> Oh no, not at all. I find intuitives intriguing, and I'm also trying to improve on my N. I do think that a well-rounded person will use all his or her functions, even the weaker ones. I guess it helps that I love literature, which is an "intuitive" topic.


Though I don't really have an opinion on the matter myself, I've heard that it's loony to do this. Apparently it's better to focus on your primary and secondary functions so that you're skilled with using them, as apposed to being comfortable with all eight.


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## MegaTuxRacer

Miss Willow said:


> Though I don't really have an opinion on the matter myself, I've heard that it's loony to do this. Apparently it's better to focus on your primary and secondary functions so that you're skilled with using them, as apposed to being comfortable with all eight.


No you want to develop your preferred functions, so your first four. The shadow functions are considered subconscious and cannot be controlled.


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## SnowFairy

cutedeadgal said:


> I'm just curious to what your thoughts/feelings on intuitives are. Thanks!


Actually, my best friend happens to an INFP like you! She's very artistic and a little unconventional, and though I don't always understand her viewpoints, I do find them fascinating. I would never reject her ideas, but rather ask questions to comprehend them better. Sometimes she actually helps me get out of my ISTJ shell, and it's nice to get a break from being my boring self from time to time. :tongue: 

I've always liked iNtuitives for the most part, with the exception of some ENTJs and ENFJs. 
Rather than disliking an entire type, I tend to take it on a person-by-person basis. 

My natural gravitation toward iNtuitives could have been influenced by having a few in my family. For my whole life I've been used to them, and I grew up understanding how to get along with them. 

Also, as @Murnando pointed out, we SJ's are actually capable about talking about non-concrete subjects. Sometimes I even prefer that! You can only talk about simple, earthly things for so long before it gets boring.


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## Steel Magnolia

I guess it depends what you mean by intuitiveness. I've been called intuitive, but not in the MBTI sense. So intuition does not annoy me, no. I often can't tell who's MBTI score is what (well, the I vs E think is usually obvious to me, but the other functions are not). So yeah, I can get along fine with intuitives.


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## Hapalo

Don't ISTJs have tertiary Ni?
This makes them one of the most intuitive sensors, correct?
Intuitives should not have much problem interacting with them, in my opinion. Unless they are feelers.


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## Owfin

Hapalo said:


> Don't ISTJs have tertiary Ni?
> This makes them one of the most intuitive sensors, correct?
> Intuitives should not have much problem interacting with them, in my opinion. Unless they are feelers.


I think you are confusing them with ISTPs. ISTJs have inferior Ne and are distinctly _not_ intuitive.


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## MCRTS

Miss Willow said:


> Though I don't really have an opinion on the matter myself, I've heard that it's loony to do this. Apparently it's better to focus on your primary and secondary functions so that you're skilled with using them, as apposed to being comfortable with all eight.


No, I meant only the first four. It would be indeed crazy to take on all eight, and I don't think anyone on earth can do that.


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## Hapalo

Owfin said:


> I think you are confusing them with ISTPs. ISTJs have inferior Ne and are distinctly _not_ intuitive.


Correct. My mistake.
Just noticed that SJs have no Ni.
I can see now why it might be problematic for them to relate with intuitives.


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## MegaTuxRacer

Hapalo said:


> Correct. My mistake.
> Just noticed that SJs have no Ni.
> I can see now why it might be problematic for them to relate with intuitives.


I have noticed that ESxJs have an easier time than ISxJs.


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## Hapalo

MegaTuxRacer said:


> I have noticed that ESxJs have an easier time than ISxJs.


They have tertiary Ne, makes sense that you as an ENTP should be able to relate better.
Maybe using similar functions helps comunicating with SJs?


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## MegaTuxRacer

Hapalo said:


> They have tertiary Ne, makes sense that you as an ENTP should be able to relate better.
> Maybe using similar functions helps comunicating with SJs?


Perhaps, but I have found that I communicate better with xSTJs than xSFJs. Furthermore, I can have a field day with an INTJ, and INTJs have flipped attitudes with regards to their functions.


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## Hapalo

MegaTuxRacer said:


> Perhaps, but I have found that I communicate better with xSTJs than xSFJs. Furthermore, I can have a field day with an INTJ, and INTJs have flipped attitudes with regards to their functions.


Maybe it is kind of like an inversed double "uncanny valley" ?









SJs would be at the bottom left valley when relating with NTs due to being kind of similar but in a weird way.
This is starting to confuse me.


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## MegaTuxRacer

Hapalo said:


> Maybe it is kind of like an inversed double "uncanny valley" ?
> 
> View attachment 37529
> 
> 
> SJs would be at the bottom left valley when relating with NTs due to being kind of similar but in a weird way.
> This is starting to confuse me.


Well if you're using JCF AP and MBTI as your basis for this then it will. There are other variables to account for as well such as personal values, interests, and life experiences. I was just looking at it in terms of my own experience with communicating with SJs.


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## Mendi the ISFJ

not usually annoying, but sometimes they just want to act like you are crazy (or tell you that you are crazy) when its not going to help anything. my suggestion to them (in these instances) is to either try to understand or keep their traps shut.


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## ginganinja

cutedeadgal said:


> Hey, so I'm an INFP girl who has some difficulty making consversations with SJs.
> 
> I'd share personal thoughts/ideas with them and they'll be like, "What's the point in that?" or "That doesn't make any sense."
> 
> I'm just curious to what your thoughts/feelings on intuitives are. Thanks!


If you want to talk to an SJ try talking about activities or anything that has a practical use. 

Like if you talk about your feelings, talk about what you are going to do about them. Not just like, I FEEL THIS or I THINK THIS. Because it's just like...oh, good for you.


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## Worriedfunction

cutedeadgal said:


> Hey, so I'm an INFP girl who has some difficulty making consversations with SJs.
> 
> I'd share personal thoughts/ideas with them and they'll be like, "What's the point in that?" or "That doesn't make any sense."
> 
> I'm just curious to what your thoughts/feelings on intuitives are. Thanks!


Why would I ever find intuitiveness annoying?

I enjoy new concepts, idea's, thought's and theories. I suppose I do get frustrated by incredibly wild conspiracy theories though.

I can see how they are often put together, as in why they might believe in it and the steps taken to reach that assumption, but I could never bring myself to agree entirely.


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## Devalight

No, not really. Some of them have very keen perception with regard to people - they are "people smart" in ways I am not. And if we have a common interest, like literature, art or religion, we can have fascinating conversations.

The only times I can have problems is if they seem stuck in a private fantasy world and don't want to talk about anything else. That might be the F more than the N - not sure.


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## aravis

Hapalo said:


> Don't ISTJs have tertiary Ni?
> This makes them one of the most intuitive sensors, correct?
> Intuitives should not have much problem interacting with them, in my opinion. Unless they are feelers.


One of my closest friends is an ISTJ. Our senses of humor go super well together, and we keep each other on our toes! Just thought I'd put that out there. It can be done! NF + ISTJ = :crazy:


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## Wakachi

Intuitives = ingenius


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## koalaroo

This thread may have ran its course, but I thought I'd put in my two cents or whatever. I'm INTP and my sister is ISTJ. There are things that each of us tends to do that annoy the others (my sister gets angry if I forget birthdays, appointments, etc and I get annoyed by her occasional rigidity), but my sister and I have a dry and occasionally morbid humor that aligns fairly well (I suppose this has to do with Si/Ne and Ne/Si as well as how we were raised).


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## septemberdawn

Owfin said:


> I have a type theory that goes something like this
> 
> COOL
> OKAY
> SUCK
> 
> But it doesn't seem to be influenced much by MBTI type.
> 
> I tend to find all dominant function thought processes other than Si to be extremely fascinating (I've dealt in Si for approximately my whole life, so you can guess that other functions might look a little more novel).
> 
> However, there can be occasionally theoretical disputes. For example, Ne vs Si (or really Extroverted Perception vs Introverted Perception in this case)
> 
> Ne: Your own perception is so limited. Look beyond into the true reality.
> Si: My perception is reality.
> Ne: By that criteria you could claim anything as true.
> Si: If you told me there was something in front of me but it would be completely intangible for me and unable to be proven in any way that could be seen by me (including scientific evidence) it does not exist in the reality I exist in. It might exist in some other reality, but not this one.
> Ne: So you consider your own opinion to be reality. How narcissistic is that?
> Si: On the contrary! Can I perceive reality through any means other than my own brain? Can I consider a thought with a brain other than my own? No, I cannot, so I do not claim that the reality I perceive is the one perceived by anything other than my own brain.
> Ne: Other people have points of view.
> Si: And I only hear these points of view through my own ears. Maybe from their point of view, they are really saying "Pie tastes good" and they perceive me as saying back to them "No way, pie sucks!"
> Ne: Urgh
> Si: Urgh



Thanks for explaining this in a way that I could understand. I struggle with understanding Si. Most of my family are Si. I am the only Ni in my immediate family. You should be a fly on the wall when they try to give me driving directions - not good! LOL


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## septemberdawn

Armageddon_Wasteland said:


> I like to see an intuitive's view of the subject. My best friend is an INTJ(both 5w6 too) and we both go back an forth with our discussions until something else comes up. What annoys me about intuitives is when they don't stop and see my point of view. Rambling on and on isn't going to help. Sure you can make a million and one different ideas, but which one actually works from all that? I guess there is a balance to all.



Well...most of us go on and on because we feel like we are not being understood. If we get a blank stare or an off the point comment or any indicators that we aren't understood then we will keep trying to accomplish good communication. So ya want us to stop then give us some feedback, geesh, lol!!! XO


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## angelcosine

So @cutedeadgal you are INFP? Good then, one of my bestfriend is an INFP. She was one of the first people I could befriend with on my first days of senior high school. We still share together our opinions though it could be counted as the -most-not-important-thing on the whole world. ISTJ and INFP befriend based on the sameness-both of us loves anime, both have ADHD, and isolated from the most society at school. I sometimes regarding her idea as not important or even nonsense, but its nonsenseness has always entertain me everyday, for example her idea about being gerontophile and/or pedophile (she has unusual age preference lol) has always heated me up, me who hold my family tradition of marrying someone of peering age. But it has been always amusing for me to know someone unusual! We have had once travelling to Europe where she got lose in Frankfurt and it made me nervous duh! Hahaha! I don't usually travel with people I am not close with, so you can conclude we are pretty close to each other.

Maybe this doesn't answer your question, but at least giving you an example how a friendship between INFP and ISTJ works. It will work actually but I have to underline one point : arguments about a topic that we both mutually like is what become a basis of the friendship. Find an ISTJ with the same interest with you, and you together will make a strong friendship and do strange things like us! Hoho.


For the answer of your question, intuitive people don't annoy me, I do even use my intuition mainly rather than sense (but I don't know what make me an ISTJ though, maybe I'm stick to tradition, family, and security).


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## angelcosine

So @cutedeadgal you are INFP? Good then, one of my bestfriend is an INFP. She was one of the first people I could befriend with on my first days of senior high school. We still share together our opinions though it could be counted as the -most-not-important-thing on the whole world. ISTJ and INFP befriend based on the sameness-both of us loves anime, both have ADHD, and isolated from the most society at school. I sometimes regarding her idea as not important or even nonsense, but its nonsenseness has always entertain me everyday, for example her idea about being gerontophile and/or pedophile (she has unusual age preference lol) has always heated me up, me who hold my family tradition of marrying someone of peering age. But it has been always amusing for me to know someone unusual! We have had once travelling to Europe where she got lose in Frankfurt and it made me nervous duh! Hahaha! I don't usually travel with people I am not close with, so you can conclude we are pretty close to each other.

Maybe this doesn't answer your question, but at least giving you an example how a friendship between INFP and ISTJ works. It will work actually but I have to underline one point : arguments about a topic that we both mutually like is what become a basis of the friendship. Find an ISTJ with the same interest with you, and you together will make a strong friendship and do strange things like us! Hoho.


For the answer of your question, intuitive people don't annoy me, I do even use my intuition mainly rather than sense (but I don't know what make me an ISTJ though, maybe I'm stick to tradition, family, and security).


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## Boolean11

Owfin said:


> Or, as sensors refer to it, "coming to conclusions without evidence". :tongue:


You saw that pragmatists' page on the socionics sub forum isn't it?


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## rd93

Owfin said:


> Or, as sensors refer to it, "coming to conclusions without evidence". :tongue:



It's almost like they unconsciously process the details and seem to have the bigger picture. And while it can mislead sometimes, it seems like it is often highly effective and reliable (considering that the person isn't imbalanced in some way)


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## tanstaafl28

Marlowe said:


> I don't type people in real life.
> 
> Online, I judge people by the content of their posts, not the four letters under their name. So the whole N vs. S thing has no bearing on how much I get along with someone.


Hooyah! I can dig that. roud:


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## WonderlandDragon

rd93 said:


> Also, talking to her about things is a very important part of my understanding of myself and others. I can feed her the sensory details and information and she'll help me make sense of it.


^This I can definitely relate to. My younger brother (an ISTJ) often times comes to me to help him make sense of things that he can't immediately understand himself. He'll tell me the details about things or ask me very logical and detailed questions in order to get my insights on them. 

Even though I'm an ENFP and my younger brother is an ISTJ we are extremely close so I don't really understand all the negative stereotypes about SJs and Ns not getting along. It's true that he doesn't always understand what I'm talking about or thinks that my ideas are cute and silly, but on the whole we understand each other immensely well. Though he sometimes gets mad when I go crazy with my Ne and don't provide enough concrete logic to defend my opinion when we're having debates and I sometimes get mad when he can't (or refuses) to see beyond what is just happening in the now, we continue to communicate our individual points of view so that we can see eye to eye. What happens more often than not is that when he's upset about things and becomes extremely catastrophic and short sighted he calms down when I present to him my more positive and multiple different takes on a situation, and when I get too out of control with ambiguous negative possibilities he comes in and helps calm me down with his stable and steadfast logical inputs. I guess what I'm trying to get at is that our S and N work well as a team - we balance each other out. He appreciates my Ne more than he gets annoyed with it (and when he does it has to do more with the fact that I don't present it very logically :tongue, and I really appreciate his attention to detail (I find it to be incredibly cute, and it helps me communicate my ideas in a better, more easy to follow way). 

Then again I could just be a biased sister since I have such an awesome younger brother


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## CaptainWildChild

I used to have alot (or tried) of discussions with my isfj friend and it is like discussing with a nodding stone. She gets what I'm saying or atleast that is waht she is saying but no matter what I say, no matter the evidence I put forth she will not change her mind/opinion because that is what she has always believed in. What is there to discuss if no one can consider other perspectives? 
Sorry I do not mean to offend sj:s but it feels like I'm discussing with close-minded people, I have not met alot of isfj but those who I have met they are almost the same.
One example is that it took me about three months of nagging to make her go to a different restaurant didn't matter how many recomendations I presented to her from people we both know and other people.


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## Mammon

I actually never had any problem with people in communication so I don't know what all this is about. LOLOLOLOLOLOL


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## brittauzenne

AngelOnHerFlight said:


> Hey, so I'm an INFP girl who has some difficulty making consversations with SJs.
> 
> I'd share personal thoughts/ideas with them and they'll be like, "What's the point in that?" or "That doesn't make any sense."
> 
> I'm just curious to what your thoughts/feelings on intuitives are. Thanks!


MMMMMMMM wellllll, sometimes the conversations can seem tedious IF i don't fully understand where the N is coming from, but if I understand the person, their motives, etc then its easy to understand where they're coming from. NOW, some Ns dont have it together and just like to ask questions for the heck of it and i dont like that at all and will quickly shut that down lol


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