# Anyone else feel like a dumb ass when hanging out with NT's?



## The Great One (Apr 19, 2010)

It seems like the NT's are brainiacs of the world. I mean, damn near every scientist, or great inventor has been an NT. NT's in general are known for their intellect. Personally, so many of my NT friends that I know are so intelligent that I feel like a idiot while being around them. Does this happen to anyone else?


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## Danse Macabre (Oct 30, 2009)

*I don't feel dumb when I'm around them cause I know I'm not *ego fills the room and balloons to fill the entire house*. But I often feel like they think I'm dumb or childish. *


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## SeveralPandas (Jul 16, 2010)

That's probably just because certain things are more appealing to certain personalities. Knowledge and proficiency in science/logic are commonly recognized indicators of intelligence. These things are more likely to interest NT's (T's in general, really), and thus, NT's are more likely to have a greater ability to argue and larger warehouses of knowledge. This makes them seem intelligent to others (and they're quite possibly proud and aware of this fact), so they might flaunt it, intentionally or unintentionally. 

The bottom line is that a lack of academic proficiency does not equal lesser intelligence. You probably just apply your mind elsewhere. Ex. tending to the emotions of yourself and others. It probably sounds like BS/patronization, but getting along with people is important for success. Maybe you don't get a 99 in calculus, but when that one person who sat next to you in that one class that you happen to befriend moves up in the corporate world, he's gonna remember his fun NF buddy, not the annoying NT that _always_ knew _all_ the answers.


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## L'Empereur (Jun 7, 2010)

Only around an ENTP . :blushed:


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## periculosa (Apr 3, 2010)

The Great One said:


> It seems like the NT's are brainiacs of the world. I mean, damn near every scientist, or great inventor has been an NT. NT's in general are known for their intellect. Personally, so many of my NT friends that I know are so intelligent that I feel like a idiot while being around them. Does this happen to anyone else?


The short answer is no. Those kind are fun to lock horns with.

Surely there's something you excel at, and you can show your NT friends what you're made of


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## Knives (Jul 22, 2010)

I don't know, I have met some booksmart NTs with NO common sense.

Short answer? No.

Long answer? Hell no.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

I don't put them on pedestals. 

"NT" does not = genius. And genius does not = "NT"

I'm around plenty of ST scientists whose capabilities and competence go beyond that of the NTs' in my field.

Oh and Nate, one of the worlds leading (innovative) neuroscientists is Susan Greenfield, who is an enfp. She's the lady gaga of neuroscience (you should see the clothes she wears) but that's besides the point. NT's are no doubt driven to understand and accrue knowledge in many areas. And they don't like being known to be intellectually inferior (wheras you may be a little more relaxed in this area). If you as an enfp, have the same drive, like Susan, to glean information, I don't see the problem in being able to engage in dialogue with them. Ne can take you far.


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## Nasmoe (Nov 11, 2009)

Not really unless they say or do something that's supposed to make me feel dumb like laughing at me not knowing what they are talking about or being sarcastic or something.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

I assure you that the general brainiacing is usually not intentional to make you feel stupid. If we were trying to make you feel stupid, you'd experience something akin to mental rape.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Danse Macabre said:


> I don't feel dumb when I'm around them cause I know I'm not *ego fills the room and balloons to fill the entire house*. But I often feel like they think I'm dumb or childish.


I don't feel stupid either - I'm smart in a bookish way and know as much useless theory as the average NT. Math and science don't scare me *ego overtakes danse macabre's ego balloons and smothers them*. I do feel that some NTs fail to recognize when anyone other than an NT is smart. I think it's common for NFPs to not be taken seriously though.... Even teachers/professors would be surprised to find me one of the best students, I suspect because of my demeanor and appearance, which are spacey and girly, respectively.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> If we were trying to make you feel stupid, you'd experience something akin to *mental rape*.


...sounds kinky. I'm gonna go commit mental rape. I will be intellectually dominant!

Nate, some NTs act stupid...I'm one of them


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

Nope. I don't get what they are saying half of the time, so I can't really judge whether their ideas are good or not:laughing:. Actually I am referring to the XNTP here. My main thought about everything is "wait, what has that got to do with anything?"

As for XNTJs they just seem privy to some information that I do not have my hands on. Gimme that information you hoarders of secret insights!!


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

NFs and SFs often invest their lives into areas that involve helping _other_ people develop their potential. Society though celebrates an individual's achievements. Little acclaim is given to all those people who supported that individual in process.


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## sarek (May 20, 2010)

Being NF with a rather strong T I regularly look over the fence. I dont think its anything to do with intelligence rather than intellectual curiosity compounded by the 'oh shiny' principle.
It is often frustrating to me to have so many different subjects inside my head but no one in RL to talk to about them. Thats why I spend so much time on the net.
I do however enjoy time with people who are enthusiastic about their own chosen profession because I can learn from them. It doesnt matter if that is an astronomer, a boat builder or a Fender stratocaster salesman. That is where my multidisciplinary predilection pays off because I am not often at a loss for words to say or questions to ask.


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## HannibalLecter (Apr 18, 2010)

I know that the non-NT people I know _are_ dumbasses compared to me, but . . .


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## Savitri (Sep 6, 2010)

I'm almost always able to keep up with my NT friends, and I often surprise them with my own intellect. I'm one of those people with a lot of interests and I research random things as a hobby. I also have very good critical thinking skills and I remember almost everything I read. That, combined with my NF ability to be great at thinking abstractly... Well, let's just say I know that I'm not a dumbass, and so do my NT friends. roud:

I do, however, feel like a dumbass when I'm hanging with SJs. :sad:


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## SubterraneanHomesickAlien (May 16, 2010)

vel said:


> NFs and SFs often invest their lives into areas that involve helping _other_ people develop their potential. Society though celebrates an individual's achievements. Little acclaim is given to all those people who supported that individual in process.


I disagree. As an INFP, I'm very individualistic. I think FJ's are the ones that tend to be highly focused on others' achievements, because of the Fe primary or auxiliary.


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## Immemorial (May 16, 2010)

We're not *all *intelligent unfortunately. :dry:


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

SubterraneanHomesickAlien said:


> I disagree. As an INFP, I'm very individualistic. I think FJ's are the ones that tend to be highly focused on others' achievements, because of the Fe primary or auxiliary.


FPs may be, but for different reasons.


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## dalsgaard (Aug 14, 2010)

Well, obviously. My younger brother is so damn smart that I feel like an idiot around him. It's not a nice feeling, especially when you also value knowledge and don't have anything other than intelligence to base your confidence around.


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## kaycee (May 18, 2010)

Not so much a dumb ass, but inadequate occasionally.

I'm quite smart myself, but NTs really seem to remember the details of everything, and as an ENFP, I'm a big picture person.


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## Valdyr (May 25, 2010)

To add to this from my perspective as an NT:

-I don't intentionally try to make anyone else feel unintelligent, I just place extremely high value on my own intelligence and I will not restrict myself from using it.

-I don't tend to think about MBTI type when I'm trying to have a serious discussion, or for most of my day for that matter.

-I have an INFP and an SP (other letters unknown) friend whom I have found are far more intellectually strong than an NT friend of mine (another INTP probably).

I can see the possible _correlation_ between being intellectually strong and being an NT, but correlation isn't causation. We're not intellectual people _because_ we're NTs, but NTs have a tendency to be intellectual people, to some extent or another.


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## Zic (Dec 30, 2009)

whatever you do, just don't act like a


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Namaste said:


> I think this could be a part of it. It's not that being an NT automatically makes someone smarter than others, I think that NTs could just care less (and are sometimes probably unaware) of social 'etiquette' of being nice and considerate of others' ideas and won't let themselves look dumber than they are just for social approval; they won't compromise their intelligence (whatever level it may be) for anyone else. I think that the NT temperament places high importance on their rationales, so to compromise that would be to compromise a lot of what they stand for. I am NOT at all saying this is a bad thing!


I agree, and I bet a lot of people on this thread who have said that being around NTs made them feel less intelligent are really just playing down their own intelligence.


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## Steve MD (Jun 11, 2010)

No, I don't feel like a dumb-ass around NT's (except for an ENTP friend of mine). my best friend is an INTP, I mean sometimes he knows more that me, but make me feel unintelligent....


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

Nein!I think that all types are intelligent.


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## SouthernBelle (Aug 27, 2010)

My dad is the biggest ENTJ I know, with a huge ego, body, and voice. But even I, a fellow ENTJ, feel stupid and slow around him. Hence the reason why we don't have the best relationship. He makes NOT want to be an ENTJ, but I love the feeling I get when I have completed a task that directly responds to be being an ENTJ


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## Nitou (Feb 3, 2010)

My STP brother thinks I am smart because I am good at academics. I think he is smart because he has the best troubleshooting skills of anyone I know. He's the guy you want around if you get stranded in the woods.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

God said:


> I feel like such a dumbass around SJs. It's not because you guys are distant/aloof (most of you guys actually seem warm and friendly actually) - it's because you've got such a eye/memory for details, organization, thoroughness, etc.
> 
> I'm always forgetting things, losing track of things, etc. For instance, if someone rearranges furniture in MY OWN ROOM, I won't even know. (Except my bed perhaps) SJs usually would. They're so responsible, dutiful, "on top of things", tidy.
> 
> ...



Being an SJ can make you have a preference for certain ways - for instance sequentiality and security, but does not necessarily mean you are better in those areas, eg have a good memory, are thorough, organised, or are remotely on top of things and so forth.


I feel like a dumb ass when I'm around someone I like, or who effects my behaviour and moods to the extent of making me feel disingenuous or paralysed in my actions.

It really depends on the person, I couldn't really single out NTs so easily as to say that they make me feel a certain way as a whole. 

If a person is working in my area and we're working together on an idea I'll be really happy to mentally bounce with them.
If they're abrasive about it - as opposed to cool, critical but not seeing themself as so incredibly better than me or others - and try to rub it in my face I'll feel irritated and possibly respect them less, as an elitist and superior attitude strikes me as a great weakness.


Cool but critical is probably my opposite and I enjoy it, and find it challenging - though sometimes a little frustrating or confusing when I can find someone like that.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

No, I just feel happy because I get to learn new things :happy: I enjoy learning and if someone is willing to teach me (like both the NTs I know) then I'm happy to take them up on it.

I don't think I've ever felt 'less intelligent' than the NTs I know, just 'differently abled' (which means I know some stuff they don't).


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## scarygirl (Aug 12, 2010)

The Great One said:


> It seems like the NT's are brainiacs of the world. I mean, damn near every scientist, or great inventor has been an NT. NT's in general are known for their intellect. Personally, so many of my NT friends that I know are so intelligent that I feel like a idiot while being around them. Does this happen to anyone else?



I feel like that
they know about EVERYTHING and so great
but ah, some of them are too inside their logical thoughts to get people like we do


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## Gwenspirit (Aug 19, 2010)

Yes, I feel dumb around NT's, but then I realize I'm using my feelings to put them on a pedestal and it isn't going both ways.

I realize it seems closeminded and unintelligent when people look down on what I have to offer the world as an "F". If I respect someone else's intelligence, I'd ask them to also respect mine even though my reasoning is different. 

There are lots of ways to deal with problems, and they all have good applications in different situations.


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## PulpFictionFan (Jul 12, 2010)

People, it's as simple as this for intelligences:

SJs Realm Of Excellence: Business Smarts

NFs Realm of Excellence: People Smarts

SPs Realm of Excellence: The Arts and Music

NTs Realm of Excellence: Academics, Philosophy, Science, etc.

And someone feel free to edit this to reflect these types' realms of excellence better. I'm an NT and know about NT smarts the best. But in short, we all have our own "intelligences" in which we excel, so how can any of the MBTI types be "stupid" in entirety. We're NOT! 

However, if you do feel like a dumbass when hanging around NTs it is for a reason. We're some smart people who have quite the myriad of insight, knowledge, and know-how....


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## talemin (Jul 4, 2010)

Mmm..I found often in this (from NT's side, yes) and always I am not purposedly arising the 'problem', nor I think we are smarter or like when someone puts it this way: it rings untrue (not insincere...untrue) so it's not at all flattering :S. It's only our 'normal' way of talking, but i start thinking that is more a matter of perceived dumbness than real intelligence.
A little example, I know it's not so clear;
sometimes I engage some debate with a friend who enjoys the same abstract, scientific, 'schoolwise intelligent' arguments, (I am triyng to type him and I think he's an ENTP as far); his wife stops us because we are 'making the others feeling too stupid for the conversation' (never said this before these 'others', only after...).
Then they start deep discussions on people and what and _why_ they act as they act anddescribe how are 'beautiful' some sensations and sometimes religious experiences. 
WE never stop them, but it's sure as death we can't _understand_ the most of what they underline with joyful 'ah yes, i _know_ what you mean'. 

I don't _feel_ I am a dumbass on their intelligence while listening...i _know_ - with my T - it is so. And what is, is. I can enjoy a little sidewalk in foreign terrain, and when (soon) i'm lost and stare in the void and they ask 'what do you think' I'll say: 'sorry you have lost me there'.
Or 'I can't _think_ on faith or sensations'.

But perhaps when the topic is calculating what percent of sun energy our local resources could provide, and how, they don't _know_: they _feel_ their being out of their chosen path and 'feeling' dumbasses on rational intelligence is more chafing than the other way round :S


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## Nitou (Feb 3, 2010)

talemin said:


> his wife stops us because we are 'making the others feeling too stupid for the conversation' (never said this before these 'others', only after...).


I find this highly offensive. I would be tempted to tell her that she IS stupid.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

PulpFictionFan said:


> People, it's as simple as this for intelligences:
> 
> SJs Realm Of Excellence: Business Smarts
> 
> ...


This is extremely stereotypical and inaccurate....my intelligence lies more in academics and the arts than in people skills, and I am not an exceptional INFP.


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

General point: Our minds may work in different ways, but that doesn't mean anyone's mind is inferior or superior because of temperament or type.


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## talemin (Jul 4, 2010)

Nitou said:


> I find this highly offensive. I would be tempted to tell her that she IS stupid.


No...she's only so very very concerned in being a 'perfect host', always...she seeks out support from the closest (us). But if she doesn't ask, we don't think on these small things as a party good outcoming by ourselves . She doesn't act like this when we are outside or at my place.


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

talemin said:


> Then they start deep discussions on people and what and _why_ they act as they act anddescribe how are 'beautiful' some sensations and sometimes religious experiences.
> WE never stop them, but it's sure as death we can't _understand_ the most of what they underline with joyful 'ah yes, i _know_ what you mean'.


Talk to her about it, say you feel the same way about those sorts of conversations, but you do not wish her to stop. Try to teach each other, ask others to take more spiritual conversation slower, and quiz them on it, and maybe try and take others through the more academic stuff.


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## talemin (Jul 4, 2010)

Na...the point of my post was: i DON'T 'feel' awkward. Feeling seems must worse than understanding a lack in something...


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## periculosa (Apr 3, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> This is extremely stereotypical and inaccurate....my intelligence lies more in academics and the arts than in people skills, and I am not an exceptional INFP.


I'm so glad you said this, OrangeApplied. I think I'm yet another INFP who is book smart and people dumb...


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## Slkmcphee (Oct 19, 2009)

I often feel like a dumbass around XSFX people. Usually NFs are kind enough to overlook the NT social awkwardness. SFs just seem to wonder, "what they hell is going on _there_?"


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

Slkmcphee said:


> I often feel like a dumbass around XSFX people. Usually NFs are kind enough to overlook the NT social awkwardness. SFs just seem to wonder, "what they hell is going on _there_?"


IME, ENTJs seem to be exempt from the "NT social awkwardness" curse. Not counting the lack of Fe and general "feelerness" when it comes to socializing, which shouldn't really be exclusive to NTs. Why wouldn't STs have the same issue?


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## Slkmcphee (Oct 19, 2009)

God said:


> IME, ENTJs seem to be exempt from the "NT social awkwardness" curse. Not counting the lack of Fe and general "feelerness" when it comes to socializing, which shouldn't really be exclusive to NTs. Why wouldn't STs have the same issue?


Yeah, the social awkwardness comes when you crack a joke that you couldn't help even though it was in very poor taste or said something so insensitive you are amazed at yourself....or when you would rather be doing laundry than accept an invitation for a mary kay party - and you tell your colleague so.

I cannot speak for STs...although I generally don't have too many issues with them...


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Oh, believe me, STs have the same issue.


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## floccinaucinihilipilifica (Aug 1, 2010)

I feel so dumb hanging out with NTs that I sometimes just stood there and cried. Just kidding on the crying part. But NTs can be very intimidating especially when they're talking about topics I have no knowledge whatsoever. When they ask my opinion I would go "yeah I totally agree" and when I got home I freakin googled everything about that topic :laughing:


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Google is life!


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## SaraBell (Jun 3, 2010)

No, I feel comfortable with other NTs...it's the other types that make me feel like an idiot lol...I can't think of anything to say to small talk (which other types seem proficient in) so I just say something random that doesn't make sense..Ex:
Bartender: *talking forever about how they didn't have wine when somebody asked for it, then didn't have something else when somebody else asked for it blah, blah, blah*
Me (unsure of how to respond): ......................heh, yeah.....I like vodka...*walks away*


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## LostInMyOwnMind (May 5, 2010)

Namaste said:


> I think this could be a part of it. It's not that being an NT automatically makes someone smarter than others, I think that NTs could just care less (and are sometimes probably unaware) of social 'etiquette' of being nice and considerate of others' ideas and won't let themselves look dumber than they are just for social approval; they won't compromise their intelligence (whatever level it may be) for anyone else. I think that the NT temperament places high importance on their rationales, so to compromise that would be to compromise a lot of what they stand for. I am NOT at all saying this is a bad thing!


Very astute observation. We are very opinionated and if we don't have the answer we know where to find it. I think that often comes across as arrogance. In reality we don't care how smart you are and don't judge your intelligence. We have an obsessive compulsion to know the answer, to EVERYTHING and will spend hours finding it. If you want to get rid of us, just hand us a volume from an encyclopedia.


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## daedaln (May 24, 2010)

No, I won't say I ever felt stupid among other NTs, although I often feel that they think that they are superior to me, which I find is extremely annoying. 

Then again, this has nothing to do with type. Each type has a spectrum, and there will always be the super intelligent ones and the really 'dumb' ones. It's all pretty relative.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

No, I don't feel like a dumb ass. The world needs engineers, mastermind inventors and scientists. But the world also needs counsellors, writers and philosophers too. Diversity is often underrated. I have no reason to be insecure solely on the basis of not being NT, sorry.


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## TeeKwug (Jun 18, 2010)

I will only say one thing: MBTI =/= Aptitude Test.


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## jdmn (Feb 5, 2010)

The thing is that they have a profound knowledge about something in particular. And they really like to talk and debate about that. They are always in search for some logical mistake and for your position on those themes. How am I supposed to have a nice conversation/debate with NTs when I barely know what they are talking about? 

Something interesting is that some NTs don't have a particular interest in "scientific" issues. I've got an NT who is so into analyzing people, their social role and their general image they present. She has high standards and always finds something to criticize or to remark with ankward sarcasm.


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## Keelin (Jun 21, 2010)

you can't really generalize intellect by knowing personality type. i know an ISTJ chick who gets good grades, is booksmart and has common sense. i'm the same way. i ace tests without trying but being an ENFP i just dont do useless schoolwork, but spend countess hours learning about tons of subjects on my own time just because i feel like it. i have an insatiable curiosity that grows the more that i learn. i hate being taught, because i know how to teach myself better than any teacher can. now i'm off topic, but ranting is fun. :laughing:

My bottom line is that different types use their level of intellect in their own way. NT's are probably just more productive with their ideas. Or instead of being artists, they invent and build and innovate by manipulating material things. :tongue:


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## TeeKwug (Jun 18, 2010)

jdmn said:


> The thing is that they have a profound knowledge about something in particular. And they really like to talk and debate about that. They are always in search for some logical mistake and for your position on those themes. How am I supposed to have a nice conversation/debate with NTs when I barely know what they are talking about?
> 
> Something interesting is that some NTs don't have a particular interest in "scientific" issues. I've got an NT who is so into analyzing people, their social role and their general image they present. She has high standards and always finds something to criticize or to remark with ankward sarcasm.



Analyzing people, their social role and their general image they present = Sociology = Science.


On another note, I agree that NTs are more likely to know a lot about a topic. I find that if I am inquisitive enough towards my NT friends they explain their knowledge or perspective so that I can understand. At this point I am able to engage in intelligent conversations with them. I am mostly good at the devil's advocacy role when speaking with them. I point out what I could see as a possible truth or flaw in what they have to say. However, I will admit that I can feel anxious doing this for fear that my questioning is being done on a faulty premise. Nonetheless, whether wrong or right in our inquiry, we will be more likely to come to a better understanding by not being afraid of NTs and engaging them in conversation, even if it is their area of expertise.

Besides, I doubt the NTs will eat you alive for being mistaken here and there....well aside from ENTJs, they require efficiency =P


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## WildWinds (Mar 9, 2010)

No, because I AM an NT =P

However, I DO have an INFP friend who will make a lot of NT's feel like dumb asses. Jus' sayin'.


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## 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 (Nov 22, 2009)

Well, I feel like a huge nerd when hanging around non-NTs (or else I'm just quiet, moreso that usual), so it goes both ways.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

*NT College Professors...*

Well, I had an Environmental Science professor that was most likely an INTJ and he most certainly made me feel like an idiot. I felt that I had to prove my intelligence to him. This was likely unintentional on his part and likely had to do with my own insecurities than anything else. Still, it didn't help that he wasn't the most sensitive person in the world. Case in point:

Professor: You all are government waste.
Me: Wow, you sure know how to insult someone.
Professor: Hey, I don't insult. I tell the truth.

In a later class, after discussing overpopulation...

Me: If educating women helps decrease the rate of pregnancy, then how is government financial aid a waste? (Probably not exact words, but it was something to that effect.) 
Professor: It still costs a lot.

You couldn't argue with that man. :tongue:


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## WildWinds (Mar 9, 2010)

3pnt1415926535897932384 said:


> Well, I feel like a huge nerd when hanging around non-NTs (or else I'm just quiet, moreso that usual), so it goes both ways.


I know how that goes lol

Although I'm not quiet. They get to hear my nerdy information whether they like it or not.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Most people do. We're just that 1337.


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