# Females with Asperger's



## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

My coworker has an MS in Counseling and her specialization used to be autism spectrum disorders.

She's been casually mentioning Asperger's to me lately, and today she asked me if I've ever been tested.

She's not the first person to ask me that. 

So, naturally I have been reading everything I can find on Asperger's - specific to females.

And...I can relate to almost everything I've read, but...I'm not sure how accurate all of it is. I've been talking to a good friend who is a psych nurse, and he also believes it is possible that I have Asperger's. It would explain a lot.

Anyway, I'm wondering if any of the females here have been diagnosed with Asperger's (or just think you have it).

And...thoughts on these articles?

Aspienwomen: Adult Women with Asperger Syndrome. Moving towards a female profile of Asperger Syndrome | taniaannmarshall

The Aspie Life: Adults/Women With Asperger's - The Good and Bad

help4aspergers.com - List of Female Asperger traits

I think I function okay, but I know I could do better (esp with regards to relationships and some work-related issues).


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## Epherion (Aug 23, 2011)

Well you are an NT, there is some intersection there, your friends could be wrong, do they know of MBTI. I've gotten the sperg comment as well. I've only met one female zerg, she seemed normal, but, she did not fit her gender well in that there was no femininity in her and had zero patience for her sex, was generally in the nerdy hobbies, physically and socially awkward, and above average intelligence. I never met you so i cant really compare her to you. 


:: Asperger Women's Association ::
Also this ^


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I didn't know the symptoms were different for females. I had almost ruled it out for myself because I hate routine/order and don't memorize bus schedules, but now I have to reconsider. Most of those really do fit me.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

snail said:


> I didn't know the symptoms were different for females. I had almost ruled it out for myself because I hate routine/order and don't memorize bus schedules, but now I have to reconsider. Most of those really do fit me.


I searched for articles specific to females because I just knew there had to be differences. 

Did you read about female children with Asperger's? If so, can you relate?


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Epherion said:


> Well you are an NT, there is some intersection there, your friends could be wrong, do they know of MBTI. I've gotten the sperg comment as well. I've only met one female zerg, she seemed normal, but, she did not fit her gender well in that there was no femininity in her and had zero patience for her sex, was generally in the nerdy hobbies, physically and socially awkward, and above average intelligence. I never met you so i cant really compare her to you.
> 
> 
> :: Asperger Women's Association ::
> Also this ^


My psych nurse friend does know about MBTI -and he's also an ENTP - and schizoid).

The co-worker knows a bit, but hasn't really studied MBTI.

I have a friend who did some testing on me a few years ago and he said I have "boy brain"...which may be why I've never had many female friends and can't relate to most women. Nerdy hobbies - yes. Awkward - yes, but I've worked hard on that and I do okay now (I'm also 43). Above average intelligence? IQ has been tested, and yes.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Snakecharmer said:


> I searched for articles specific to females because I just knew there had to be differences.
> 
> Did you read about female children with Asperger's? If so, can you relate?


Yes, and yes. Thank you for posting about this. It wouldn't have ever occurred to me that they would exclude the symptoms of girls/women from the vast majority of online information. I just assumed the symptoms would not be gender-dependent, and that if they were, that would be noted.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

At University I did once meet a rarer 33 year old autistic woman - such an interesting personality: very intelligent, warm but reserved, with parental input decided it was best to wait until after High School to get officially diagnosed, attempted engineering in her 20's then educational psychology at 32, knew she wanted children in her early 20's, studied part time as a part time teachers aide (teaching assistant in a primary school), the type to need to study more to learn a subject, emotionally aware but not overly empathetic, very knowledgeable, a bad time keeper with imperfect organisation skills, dressed in gender neutral attire and very self aware as a thinker type.


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

I just realised that I have AS, which in ways have proved that I am not an INTJ after all (because INTJs' characteristics have a lot of similarities that may be mistaken for AS). One of the symptoms that gave it away was my over-sensitivity to external stimulus, social awkwardness and lack of emotional expression, even though I am still very much an emotionally-driven person.


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## DiamondDays (Sep 4, 2012)

Oh wow.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Powerhouse said:


> I just realised that I have AS, which in ways have proved that I am not an INTJ after all (because INTJs' characteristics have a lot of similarities that may be mistaken for AS). One of the symptoms that gave it away was my over-sensitivity to external stimulus, social awkwardness and lack of emotional expression, even though I am still very much an emotionally-driven person.


In truth, so many [insert disorder or mental issue] traits are common enough that everything is a little bit 'non typical', yet so much of the media and society as a whole is centred towards 'the norm', perfection and moulded personalities built upon generalisability versus pre 1970's thinking of more noble character being valued most. 

Even I as a medically verified autistic relate to many of the female ASD traits 'less present' as a stronger feeling sensitive guy.


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)




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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Powerhouse said:


> I just realised that I have AS, which in ways have proved that I am not an INTJ after all (because INTJs' characteristics have a lot of similarities that may be mistaken for AS). One of the symptoms that gave it away was my over-sensitivity to external stimulus, social awkwardness and lack of emotional expression, even though I am still very much an emotionally-driven person.


I originally tested as INTJ too, and then INTP for a long time. Someone else tested me and came up with ENTP, which I do still think is accurate. That might sound odd, but I've worked very hard at studying body language and communication styles (and psychology overall) because I've always felt awkward around people. 

So much makes sense now.


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Snakecharmer said:


> I originally tested as INTJ too, and then INTP for a long time. Someone else tested me and came up with ENTP, which I do still think is accurate. That might sound odd, but I've worked very hard at studying body language and communication styles (and psychology overall) because I've always felt awkward around people.
> 
> So much makes sense now.


I tested as INFP, ENTP, INTP and INTJ while I was emotionally unhealthy. I knew immediately that the first 3 types aren't me, and I had the misconception of being an INTJ. Right now, it seems like ENFP's description describes me more accurately even though I never get this score from any MBTI tests I've taken before.

Yes, I have also been observing and learning about nonverbal communication, but I'm still struggling with the application of the knowledge (as always). Indeed, it does. I was devastated at first, as it explains why I've been a failure in life for many mainstream pursuits, but after changing my perspective and lowering my expectations, I have a clearer picture of who I actually am, and I stopped following how people lead their lives to live the life that I want to.


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

StElmosDream said:


> In truth, so many [insert disorder or mental issue] traits are common enough that everything is a little bit 'non typical', yet so much of the media and society as a whole is centred towards 'the norm', perfection and moulded personalities built upon generalisability versus pre 1970's thinking of more noble character being valued most.
> 
> Even I as a medically verified autistic relate to many of the female ASD traits 'less present' as a stronger feeling sensitive guy.


These days, society look for aesthetics over quality and nobility. People just want to see and hear what they like to, not necessarily what's good for them.

If I am not medically-certificated, does it mean that there's still a chance that I may not be an aspie after all?


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

Most disorders just seem like what the SJs need to wrap their head around people being different from them.

I'd say it's pretty common for NTs to be characterized with asperger's.


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

I dated an Aspies(I think)about five years ago.Emotion was there but only in selective situations.I was fine with that.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Powerhouse said:


> If I am not medically-certificated, does it mean that there's still a chance that I may not be an aspie after all?


As callous as it might sound, autism has become a 'trendy disorder' until people actually have to live it; until then social awkwardness, vulnerability to coercion, idiosyncrasies, oddness, uniqueness and focussed interests are attributed to 'being autistic traits alone' rather than what many would attribute to teenage-adult desires for a sense of self identity to call their own*.

The choice is yours if you wish to see a psychiatrist, trained autism diagnostician service or an educational psychologist... do you feel the unconfirmed definition will influence your sense of self by not knowing the true answer?

*In the last few years I have come to accept that ASD stigmas or labels are just that; poor public PR that fails to acknowledge the positives of people as a whole or better yet life adjustments made towards living ones interpretation of a productive life.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

This is funny. I'm staying with my sister temporarily (just moved back to my hometown), and I read a lot of the traits to her and she said, "Oh yeah - you are definitely an Aspie." She said it explains a lot...

Ah, well. Not worried about it, but may seek help with certain aspects of my life. Interesting.


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## clelius (Aug 23, 2013)

I am a gal diagnosed with Asperger's since I was a child.
I do not relate to the description of the "feminine" AS, though.
My AS is pretty much like the "classical" one, also called the "male" AS form.
I cannot copy others or modify my behaviour.
This is probably why I was diagnosed so early.

I think that AS is the reason why the myers-briggs test doesn't work for me.
Of course people with AS are more likely to score as introverts on the myers-briggs tests, no matter what their true personality really is.
I usually score INTP, ISTP, INFP, ISFP and ISTJ, and I have scored pretty much everything on the introverted scale.
The myers-briggs can't be 100% accurate for someone with Asperger's IMO, as it influences the way a person's brain is wired.


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

StElmosDream said:


> As callous as it might sound, autism has become a 'trendy disorder' until people actually have to live it; until then social awkwardness, vulnerability to coercion, idiosyncrasies, oddness, uniqueness and focussed interests are attributed to 'being autistic traits alone' rather than what many would attribute to teenage-adult desires for a sense of self identity to call their own*.
> 
> The choice is yours if you wish to see a psychiatrist, trained autism diagnostician service or an educational psychologist... do you feel the unconfirmed definition will influence your sense of self by not knowing the true answer?
> 
> *In the last few years I have come to accept that ASD stigmas or labels are just that; poor public PR that fails to acknowledge the positives of people as a whole or better yet life adjustments made towards living ones interpretation of a productive life.


Yes, to an extent, it does and I want to know the true answer, and at the same time, I'm afraid to know the truth. If I were to be diagnosed with AS, I'll probably state that in my job applications, in order to seek understanding for certain social issues. I am afraid that this may cause employers to discriminate against me, especially since most organisations require one to not hide anything from them. I'm also afraid of being socially and romantically discriminated as well. I find that a lot of people try to change me to be 'normal' or 'better', which is extremely stressful to me.

Well, my definition of a productive life is different from what 90% of people would define it as, so it kind of sets me apart from others, in both positive and negative ways.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Powerhouse said:


> Yes, to an extent, it does and I want to know the true answer, and at the same time, I'm afraid to know the truth. If I were to be diagnosed with AS, I'll probably state that in my job applications, in order to seek understanding for certain social issues.
> 
> I am afraid that this may cause employers to discriminate against me, especially since most organisations require one to not hide anything from them. I'm also afraid of being socially and romantically discriminated as well. I find that a lot of people try to change me to be 'normal' or 'better', which is extremely stressful to me.


These days I am happier to declare dyslexia only on application forms*, observing how so few companies actually wish to (or perhaps seem capable) consider the impact of autism, instead discriminating with lack of knowledge or untrue stereotypes, when in reality like most things autism symptoms can be improved over time once we become more assertive, self aware and by practising self acceptance.

*(AS has medically been reclassified as an autism severity scale under DSM V guidelines although many still apply AS as a confusing distinction)

I will be honest with you, getting a diagnosis is invaluable in educational settings for self understanding purposes and working on social thinking issues, however over time many learn not to let it define them...as you note your behaviour has remained consistent with or without a definition (people can and will only try to reshape us if we let them; lacking a sense of self others feel they must fill it in for us - often projecting 'desirable traits' onto us until we make it clear only we can live life our way).


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

clelius said:


> I think that AS is the reason why the myers-briggs test doesn't work for me.
> Of course people with AS are more likely to score as introverts on the myers-briggs tests, no matter what their true personality really is.
> I usually score INTP, ISTP, INFP, ISFP and ISTJ, and I have scored pretty much everything on the introverted scale.
> The myers-briggs can't be 100% accurate for someone with Asperger's IMO, as it influences the way a person's brain is wired.


Such an interesting perspective. To a point I agree, although in my case I required more time to become self aware enough to accurately type myself (initially being an unhealthy suppressed 'INTJ' then later a more emotionally grounded INFJ after trauma therapy) and more time to process heightened emotional-sensory awarenesses as the sensitive empathic type that had to learn 'unspoken social rules' the hard way.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I wouldn't worry about whether or not to take the label unless it might be an issue thats actually affecting your life in a negative way. I have known aspies who don't know they are, end up having abnormally difficult experiences in life. Late 20s, early 30s, living in mom's basement, or just completely incapable of making a friend or showing empathy when appropriate - it really alienates and cripples some people. Those are the ones who need to ask, whats wrong with me. I have noticed a habit of aspies though to not even realize -what- is wrong, just that they receive negative reactions a lot. Instead of realizing that they didn't show an appropriate amount of empathy in a situation for example, they might just think the person whos offended is the one with the issue.

Some of them might even think they're just hyper-rational, when really its a lack of empathy causing them to not consider the very real emotional aspect of reality.

A female aspie who I knew online for example, told a mother of two "your kids don't actually 'love' you, its just biology making them feel an attachment to their care provider to ensure their survival." She didn't understand 1. why its not entirely correct, 2. why it offended the mother.

Another aspie once really floored me, by talking about how someone who was screwing another man just weeks after finding out her husband was dead, was "probably handling it in a more healthy way than most by simply letting go and moving on." And this guy didn't even care that his own mom died. 

I read one aspie's story once, where he talked about how he wouldn't feel anything if he was separated from his parents forever. I read an article talking about how aspies have very low oxytocin and how that could be to blame for their lack of emotional attachment. 

Though I have seen aspies get very attached to certain people, it seems to me that the relationship is more one-sided where they grow to need that person to be sort of their ambassador to reality. They lean on them because sure, they experience great loneliness, but they aren't going to be able to provide any meaningful emotional support. Aspie men are very prone to desire the "manic pixie dream girl" type of woman who will navigate reality for him, lead him along for the ride, and _ask nothing in return_ / not express _her own needs_. They also fall prey more easily than neurotypical men, to choosing virtual replacements over real romance. Real romance is too intimidating and psychologically messy. Theres too much cognitive dissonance in dealing with something that emotionally complicated, plus all of the tradition and ritual of interacting on a higher emotional level is lost on them.

Its not uncommon for them to feel like they simply can't initiate a romantic encounter, or physical intimacy even after they have the green light.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Promethea said:


> Some of them might even think they're just hyper-rational, when really its a lack of empathy causing them to not consider the very real emotional aspect of reality.
> 
> A female aspie who I knew online for example, told a mother of two "your kids don't actually 'love' you, its just biology making them feel an attachment to their care provider to ensure their survival." She didn't understand 1. why its not entirely correct, 2. why it offended the mother.


I can relate to the first quote. Every partner I've had has accused me of not acknowledging or understanding their feelings.

The second is something I'd think, but not necessarily say. I've learned that sometimes it is better to refrain from sharing my thoughts. lol


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Snakecharmer said:


> I can relate to the first quote. Every partner I've had has accused me of not acknowledging or understanding their feelings.
> 
> The second is something I'd think, but not necessarily say. I've learned that sometimes it is better to refrain from sharing my thoughts. lol


Its also possible you have Fi instead of Fe, and have been with Fe valuing men. Meet some aspies and see how their empathy works in comparison to your own. Tbh I wondered once upon a time about myself until being around some aspies and that cleared it up.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Promethea said:


> Its also possible you have Fi instead of Fe, and have been with Fe valuing men. Meet some aspies and see how their empathy works in comparison to your own. Tbh I wondered once upon a time about myself until being around some aspies and that cleared it up.


I don't know...I talked to my sister about this in-depth this morning, and she said, "Oh, so that's why it always seems like everything is about YOU and your own little world." Ouch.  

Looking back on my childhood, teen, and early adult years...there are a lot of examples of that missing empathy. And I see it in my job now...I am better suited to the educator role than the counselor role (my job requires both).


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## clelius (Aug 23, 2013)

I was told that feeling empathy is like knowing what a person is feeling.
I can't do that.
When I see a person with a severe handicap I start feeling very anxious and I think "what if that happened to me?", or "I could never live like that".
But I do have no idea of what the person with the handicap might be feeling.

I was told that that is "sympathy", not empathy. 
Most people think I can feel neither empathy not sympathy, but I guess they are wrong on the sympathy part after all.
I was told by people that I have displayed in many situations a lack of both empathy or sympathy.
Maybe I am not good at showing it; I don't really know.


I actually am attached to my parents, but the shrinks stated the opposite several times when I was a child.
They said that a proof of that was on my first day of kindergarten.
According to them, the fact that I didn't cry or display any emotion was the proof that I didn't care of being separated from my parents.

As for relationships, no one ever approached me because according to people, I tend to scare persons.
Anyway, I've felt a special affection for only a person until now, and we are friends.
I am happy this way; I don't think I could do any better than being a friend to him. I don't he'll ever see me as a girlfriend or something like that.

As for friendships, I have a few friends (I think 6 or 7), and my ability of socializing as kind of improved as I grew up.From age 3 to age 6 I was incapable of forming friendship, and had my first friend when I was around 9. My biggest of problem is, anyway, maintaining friendships.

My life is not that bad, all things considered.
I am kinda content with how my life is at the moment.

Of course I am lucky because I was never severely bullied, treated cruelly by people, or abused in any way.
I should also consider that my family has always been supportive and there for me when I needed them.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

l think some people will look at the disorder and do what people do when they ''type'' by archetype, if you know what l mean. Classify the person based on a very general picture that could be related to several different causes instead of looking at functions xD

Weird example, but in this case then, functions would be the diagnostic traits. You can look at someone and think ''ENTP'' until you see their behavior has completely different root causes.

lt would seem that an inherent lack of comprehension of non verbal communication and trouble detecting tone and various other subtleties in conversation is what leads to the most difficulty with the disorder and ends up creating the profile. 

l've only met a few people who seemed to have similar issues, and actually l would say that they understood the cues in a way most people wouldn't understand but the end result was that they still weren't able to rapidly translate that into real life context and so they weren't keeping up.

lf someone appears to be similar overall and doesn't experience those difficulties, it may not be that they don't have it but they can still adjust more easily than most who do, and l think it's important to remember that the diagnosis is essentially to assist people who will or have had trouble adjusting to society.

edit: That's a good point above, reverse: l've had similar comments about being tuned out emotionally from Fi types and around Fe types l appear to have superior social skills

Fe is valued as the norm, the way the majority of people see your behavior is really going to affect the way it's viewed in relation to being disordered or not.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

it's too easy for people who don't fully understand things to label others as having AS. I have a cousin I'm around a lot who very distinctly (once you know him well) has it, and the differences between being merely an NT and being autistic are quite striking and obvious to me because I am fully aware of both ideas and can thus compare. 

For example, my cousin can't fluently speak off the top of his head. It's a bit like a video loading on a slow connection and has to buffer. You get a bit of the sentence, and then often he has to try and think of what he wants to say next, and it sounds like it takes a great deal of effort. Ignorant people may perhaps mistake me for the same thing, because sometimes I have a very specific logical model in my head, and expressing it in a complete way takes careful thought. But of course, it's not the same thing at all. I can ramble off thoughts from my head with ease as they arise. I have no problem with phrasing most things. And I sometimes speak in a semi-monotone only when I'm being very detached and logical, but switch to a more human varied style of speech otherwise. 

Also, he has to get up every few minutes almost because something is bothering him. There's a breeze, or it's too cold, too hot, too humid. Any tiny little sensory variation he can't seem to block out at all. I can usually become oblivious to sensory things so much it's practically the opposite, although I do like to make sure I'm comfortable so that I can focus on thinking freely. 

then there's the difference between being uninterested in reading social cues, and being unable to. Things like that. It's why people try to say Einstein was an aspy and stuff like that. He defied social convention. Maybe he did it on purpose and not from cluelessness, as is apparent upon some research. Typical INTP, really, although perhaps a bit bolder than most of us would be.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

That's what l notice with a family member @dizzycactus.

l've never once seen him ''mesh'' in conversation completely, l'm not saying that's what Asperger's_ is_, but he doesn't do it *at all* and you see a few consistent things like that.

He forms mini monologues and if you interrupt, he has to form another one just to answer any question you have but he doesn't get frustrated or anything. 

l'm pretty close with him, but it's very, very difficult to become close with him as it can't happen in real time and he doesn't seem to be able to express certain things in conversation. Big gesture guy.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

dizzycactus said:


> For example, my cousin can't fluently speak off the top of his head. It's a bit like a video loading on a slow connection and has to buffer.



For me it is kind of like being a foreigner in another country. I speak a little bit of the language but most is lost on me unless I have time to process. It's like "non-verbal" is my first language, then English as a second language.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> He forms mini monologues and if you interrupt, he has to form another one just to answer any question you have but he doesn't get frustrated or anything.


I have a hypothesis that the autistic brain has difficulty with salience, not just with sensory information, but with conceptual information as well. It can be very hard to describe something without providing all the details and how I discovered said details and conclusions.

Going back to my above comment on being primarily "non-verbal"... A picture is worth a 1000 words, but I can't show it to you, so I have to speak all 1000 words.

It can be difficult to communicate just the gist or the most salient information because I'm not sure what would be the most important parts to make the other person understand, specifically, my meaning.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

PaladinX said:


> I have a hypothesis that the autistic brain has difficulty with salience, not just with sensory information, but with conceptual information as well. It can be very hard to describe something without providing all the details and how I discovered said details and conclusions.
> 
> Going back to my above comment on being primarily "non-verbal"... A picture is worth a 1000 words, but I can't show it to you, so I have to speak all 1000 words.
> 
> It can be difficult to communicate just the gist or the most salient information because I'm not sure what would be the most important parts to make the other person understand, specifically, my meaning.


I always put that down to my cousin perhaps being an Si dom, because I noticed that. He can't just say what I need to know, it's like I need his life story every time he tells me something. If I ask him if he's ready to go somewhere, he can't just say yes or no, or even briefly summarise what he has yet to do. You know, the information that is important to me. He has to give an exact account of why exactly he is doing each thing that he is doing, and after 5 minutes or so of straight rambling, I usually have to cut him off and get him to give me the underlying point, because my arm is getting sore holding the phone or whatever. Maybe it isn't Si, then. Bearing in mind, though, that he does score about 83 on an IQ test, so he's probably a lot more difficult to deal with even than a smart aspy.

Perhaps it's because knowing what the other person wants to know requires a kind of awareness of their separate set of circumstances and mental state within that framework, which is clearly an aspy struggle area.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

PaladinX said:


> I have a hypothesis that the autistic brain has difficulty with salience, not just with sensory information, but with conceptual information as well. It can be very hard to describe something without providing all the details and how I discovered said details and conclusions.
> 
> Going back to my above comment on being primarily "non-verbal"... A picture is worth a 1000 words, but I can't show it to you, so I have to speak all 1000 words.
> 
> It can be difficult to communicate just the gist or the most salient information because I'm not sure what would be the most important parts to make the other person understand, specifically, my meaning.


Yeah, that's what he seems to do, he won't leave much out and he structures everything pretty well for it being on the spot that way
. l learned about 100 years worth of world history just from our conversations growing up 

The way we bonded was by developing this connection where we both somehow stored the most important details of our conversations mentally and then him communicating through small gestures or references to that.

l'm not sure how to describe it except, he maintains a certain non-verbal ''tone'' with you that can change based on many factors. You can usually tell if you're in good with him or not just based on the way his energy adjusts but he seems to communicate primarily through that mode and most of what he speaks is information based.

Since people he doesn't know well have no way of understanding that his communication is actually very (seemingly) intuitive based, all they hear when he talk is the information and he tends to talk about a lot of impersonal subjects.

l can see how it resembles being ''split'' like most Ne types are, but he seems to be a bit further removed from his physical state/presentation.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> l'm not sure how to describe it except, he maintains a certain non-verbal ''tone'' with you that can change based on many factors. You can usually tell if you're in good with him or not just based on the way his energy adjusts but he seems to communicate primarily through that mode and most of what he speaks is information based.
> 
> Since people he doesn't know well have no way of understanding that his communication is actually very (seemingly) intuitive based, all they hear when he talk is the information and he tends to talk about a lot of impersonal subjects.


Two challenges very common you note : Theory of Mind is the ability to consider another's thoughts or feelings and what knowledge they may already possess-wish to know; in short the ability to think from another persons perspective in communications and challenges with Executive Function; inconsistent planning skills, fluidity of thinking, adaptability to change and timekeeping; in this case rigidity of thinking as if reading from a script and a need to structure things in a stilted way (both areas can be a problem for me being dyslexic and prone to quick associative thinking and intuitive leaps others cannot often follow themselves).


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

dizzycactus said:


> For example, my cousin can't fluently speak off the top of his head. It's a bit like a video loading on a slow connection and has to buffer. You get a bit of the sentence, and then often he has to try and think of what he wants to say next, and it sounds like it takes a great deal of effort.
> 
> Also, he has to get up every few minutes almost because something is bothering him. There's a breeze, or it's too cold, too hot, too humid. Any tiny little sensory variation he can't seem to block out at all. I can usually become oblivious to sensory things so much it's practically the opposite, although I do like to make sure I'm comfortable so that I can focus on thinking freely.
> 
> then there's the difference between being uninterested in reading social cues, and being unable to. Things like that. It's why people try to say Einstein was an aspy and stuff like that. He defied social convention. Maybe he did it on purpose and not from cluelessness, as is apparent upon some research. Typical INTP, really, although perhaps a bit bolder than most of us would be.


I've always been considered scatterbrained and I do struggle with verbalizing my thoughts. I'm a very good writer, though - it is much easier for me to communicate and express myself via written words.

And I definitely have sensory issues (constantly adjusting the thermostat, sweater on and off, I hate socks, stockings, shoes, can't wear turtlenecks or tight clothing, etc). I smell things others don't - for example, I'm at work right now and it smells like there is bad food somewhere, but my 3 co-workers don't smell it. I'm very sensitive to light and have migraine with aura (triggered by bright light and/or loud noises). I can't stand the sound of TV, and always ask people to turn the radio down. I have trouble sleeping, because I can't get comfortable and my mind races at night.

I think I'm okay at reading social cues now for the most part, but I've studied it and it takes effort - it doesn't come naturally. When I was younger I was terrible at it. The only friends I had were the ones who pursued a friendship with me. I've never been good at starting or maintaining relationships. My last long-term boyfriend always said he thought I wouldn't care if he disappeared and wondered if I'd even notice.

I've been divorced twice (first was because he was into men, and the second was because I have "issues with intimacy",which is something every man I've been involved with has accused me of). 

I become very obsessed with interests and will not get anything done when I'm focused on learning about them.

My mother called me a "lazy underachiever". I frustrated teachers and my parents because they knew I was of above-average intelligence and had potential, but I didn't "apply myself". I've been in and out of college since 1988. I have taken enough courses to have several degrees, but only managed to complete one (which I did in 3 years instead of 4). I started a Masters program but got bored and quit...I knew I could learn more about nutrition on my own and didn't like the curriculum the school provided.

I don't have a monotone voice - in fact, I can be quite hyper and animated in conversation. I'm terrible at eye contact, though. It makes me squirm. I never know how much to use or when to look away. When I was younger, I stared at people (actually had an older girl in high school threaten me over it). 

Anyway, perhaps all of this means nothing...maybe I'm just quirky and more introverted than I thought. I really do live in my own world...in my head.

I function okay overall, I guess. I'd like to be better at meeting people and it would be nice to have a healthy long-term relationship with a man at some point. 

Something else stands out to me, though: theory of mind. I don't get "faith" and for the life of me, I cannot understand why people believe in a higher power. I'm accused of being self-involved and insensitive ALL the time, by family members, friends, and romantic partners. Recent example: the last guy I dated texted me one morning a few weeks ago to tell me he really needed to talk and asked me to call him asap. I called him when I had time, and it turns out he was upset over an error his bank made (it was a huge error). I asked if they were fixing it and he said yes. I couldn't figure out what the big deal was and told him so. That really hurt him, and he chewed me out for it on the phone later that day. Told me I was insensitive and uncaring.

Last night my sister said she's always thought I lacked empathy, but she attributed it to me being spacey and a bit selfish...but also said she knows I really DO care about others and that I'm NOT selfish, so my behavior confuses her.

Okay - I'll stop rambling. Might have had too much caffeine this morning.


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## dizzycactus (Sep 9, 2012)

Snakecharmer said:


> I've always been considered scatterbrained and I do struggle with verbalizing my thoughts. I'm a very good writer, though - it is much easier for me to communicate and express myself via written words.
> 
> And I definitely have sensory issues (constantly adjusting the thermostat, sweater on and off, I hate socks, stockings, shoes, can't wear turtlenecks or tight clothing, etc). I smell things others don't - for example, I'm at work right now and it smells like there is bad food somewhere, but my 3 co-workers don't smell it. I'm very sensitive to light and have migraine with aura (triggered by bright light and/or loud noises). I can't stand the sound of TV, and always ask people to turn the radio down. I have trouble sleeping, because I can't get comfortable and my mind races at night.
> 
> ...


I wonder how much of that could be the Si inferior if you're an ENTP. 

I wouldn't really understand why he's upset, either. I'd be upset and then not be upset when the bank say they'll fix it for me. However, sometimes emotional events leave a kind of imprint, I guess. Sometimes a brief awkward moment with someone will stick with me and replay over and over. I still get flashbacks about my most embarrassing moments from years ago. Like when one time a friend I hadn't seen in years saw me in public and said hi. It took me off guard and I kinda looked at the ground and mumbled a bit. And he had friends with him which made it a lot worse. 
A technical error at a bank, though. Seems a bit strange to worry about if they're fixing it. 
Although, one of the nicest things a girl has done for me was when I was feeling lonely and upset, and my gf at the time called me to make sure I was ok. Just hearing her voice made a huge difference, and I felt better.


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## Pinion (Jul 31, 2013)

I was diagnosed during childhood, and I guarantee that there is nothing about NTs, SJs, or any other type that could “look like” Asperger's to any specialist worth their education. We’re not just “bad with feelings”, “bad with social skills”, or “different from other women”. Oh, if only that was all...

If you were reading stereotypes online or interpreting diagnostic criteria on your own, then that would be another story. That’s a shoddy path at best.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Pinion said:


> I was diagnosed during childhood, and I guarantee that there is nothing about NTs, SJs, or any other type that could “look like” Asperger's to any specialist worth their education. We’re not just “bad with feelings”, “bad with social skills”, or “different from other women”. Oh, if only that was all...
> 
> If you were reading stereotypes online or interpreting diagnostic criteria on your own, then that would be another story. That’s a shoddy path at best.


Nah, this wasn't me looking for something...my coworker is a licensed mental health counselor who specialized in autism spectrum disorders until she started working here (now she's a weight loss counselor). She's the one who brought up Asperger's to me...I just thought this was my personality (and it very well could be as simple as that).

I'm aware of bias in self-diagnosis and am trying to avoid that as much as possible. I may see a professional, I may not...haven't decided yet.


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## Snakecharmer (Oct 26, 2010)

Pinion said:


> If you were reading stereotypes online or interpreting diagnostic criteria on your own, then that would be another story. That’s a shoddy path at best.


Oh, and to add to this: there are definitely criteria that DON'T fit me at all, so who knows.

A psych nurse friend suggested that I seem schizoid (he is, and we are very much alike). I don't agree with his assessment, though.


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