# What's my type? (different approach this time)



## kiribek (Aug 5, 2018)

This time I'll try to explain how my persona behaves in the external world, based on what I was able to observe. (I tried my best to look at myself from an outside/3rd-person perspective, and this is what I gathered):

- In terms of appearance:
I am very lean, underweight to an extent, but of an average height. I try to compensate for my complexes (mainly my underweight-ness) by dressing in a tasteful, classic/elegant way. And even though I tend to put a lot of conscious effort into appearing elegant - my head prefers to be stuck in the clouds more, than to be down to earth - so my control over my appearance easily slips out of my grasp.
In summary, the final image I end up presenting to the world, is that of an elegant guy, who wears very few colors (mostly black, grey, beige), but often has somewhat messy hair, and an accidentally untied shoelace somewhere, and doesn't shave often. So it's a weird mix of (successfully) established reputation of perpetual elegance, *but* mixed with unavoidable neglect and hints of untidiness due to caring little about the physical world. Some people say that, in their eyes, I have the image of a "romantic" or a "poet", others says I resemble a typical evil-mastermind villain from Hollywood movies. Others comment on me creating a dark and heavy aura everywhere I go.

- In terms of behavior:
I don't consider myself to lack emotion, or to be slow to react to the physical world, but people in 99% of cases consider me a phlegmatic, who is impossible to anger or sway from his desired path. I don't create conflict, I don't seek to needlessly engage with people. Trying to provoke an emotional reaction from me is nearly impossible. And forcing me to change my opinions or decisions on anything, is even more difficult. (if however I am being continuously provoked for weeks or months, I may explode like an atomic bomb)
However, despite that, I consider myself to be extremely neurotic, have been since childhood. I take everything very closely to heart, and the excessive emotional worries I experience about even the slightest thing cause severe damage to my health. However, on the surface, all people see is an emotionless, cold stone, who's "incapable of empathy or love." (as I was told once)
However, despite that seemingly grim outer image I painted above, I love helping people, and tend to run to their aid at the very first cry or call. Having that said, I don't like counseling people, and as soon as they expect me to become a shoulder to cry on, I get the fuck out, faster than a bullet leaves the barrel of a gun. But I love helping people in the sense of solving their problems - finding practical solutions in anything I am and am not an expert in. And I commit myself to solving others' problems very obsessively, often missing out on sleep and food, feeling it is my duty to solve the problem I proclaimed I will solve.
In a group I tend to have a very low-key presence, sometimes to the point that people even don't notice I'm even there, and forget I was present at the meeting. But this tends to be the case only if I am placed into the "subordinate" or "team-member" position. If I am given a leadership role, it's anything *but* low-key. I tend to commit myself to my tasks to workaholic extremes, and if I am placed in charge of the group, I ensure to convert everyone into a workaholic as well. "Taking it slow" in the field of work is definitely *not my* motto. And even when I do my own portion of the work as a subordinate, I am often asked to slow down or chill out.
I have an inner desires to impress the world, and to overcome the world. I am driven to know more than the people around me, to do more than the people around me, to succeed more than the people around. I have this strange inner paranoia not *to be* but *to become* the best, and I'm willing to sacrifice my health and my sanity, if necessary, to attain that throne. When I aim for the crown, I don't assume I deserve it, I simply assume that it is something I absolutely must attain, no matter what it would cost me.


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

Still INTx to me


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## Decappuccino (Nov 14, 2018)

INTJ or maybe ENTJ, though I'm leaning toward the former.


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## kiribek (Aug 5, 2018)

INTPercent said:


> INTJ or maybe ENTJ, though I'm leaning toward the former.


Could you list all the reasons that make you lean towards one over the other?


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## Decappuccino (Nov 14, 2018)

kiribek said:


> Could you list all the reasons that make you lean towards one over the other?


Sure.



kiribek said:


> I try to compensate for my complexes (mainly my underweight-ness) by dressing in a tasteful, classic/elegant way. And even though I tend to put a lot of conscious effort into appearing elegant - my head prefers to be stuck in the clouds more, than to be down to earth - so my control over my appearance easily slips out of my grasp. In summary, the final image I end up presenting to the world, is that of an elegant guy, who wears very few colors (mostly black, grey, beige), but often has somewhat messy hair, and an accidentally untied shoelace somewhere, and doesn't shave often. So it's a weird mix of (successfully) established reputation of perpetual elegance, *but* mixed with unavoidable neglect and hints of untidiness due to caring little about the physical world.


This for me is possibly a sign of dominant Ni (and maybe inferior Se).
ENTJs are more "grounded" than INTJs due to leading with a Judging function (Te) while INTJs lead with a Perceiving function (Ni). I have never met or heard of an ENTJ who described their head as being "stuck in the clouds" like you do.



kiribek said:


> I don't consider myself to lack emotion, or to be slow to react to the physical world, but people in 99% of cases consider me a phlegmatic, who is impossible to anger or sway from his desired path. I don't create conflict, I don't seek to needlessly engage with people. Trying to provoke an emotional reaction from me is nearly impossible. And forcing me to change my opinions or decisions on anything, is even more difficult. (if however I am being continuously provoked for weeks or months, I may explode like an atomic bomb)


The simple fact that people describe you as "phlegmatic" and "impossible to anger" and you mentioning that you don't create conflict makes me think introvert and *not* Te-dom. While not all ENTJs fit the bulldozer image they are stereotypically given, this attitude just is typically INTJ. ENTJs also have a much shorter fuse because of their inferior Fi which makes them less in control of their emotions. I always have to tiptoe around ENTJs, but INTJs are much more laid-back and usually tell me (or show signs) if something isn't to their liking, rather than (seemingly) randomly blowing up out of the blue.



kiribek said:


> However, despite that, I consider myself to be extremely neurotic, have been since childhood. I take everything very closely to heart, and the excessive emotional worries I experience about even the slightest thing cause severe damage to my health. However, on the surface, all people see is an emotionless, cold stone, who's "incapable of empathy or love." (as I was told once)


The neuroticism might be an individual thing. INTJs are however _huge_ perfectionists, much more than ENTJs who care more about productivity. The "emotionless" and "cold" exterior is another thing INTJs tend to struggle with because of their tertiary Fi (which is a function turned inwards).



kiribek said:


> However, despite that seemingly grim outer image I painted above, I love helping people, and tend to run to their aid at the very first cry or call. Having that said, I don't like counseling people, and as soon as they expect me to become a shoulder to cry on, I get the fuck out, faster than a bullet leaves the barrel of a gun. But I love helping people in the sense of solving their problems - finding practical solutions in anything I am and am not an expert in. And I commit myself to solving others' problems very obsessively, often missing out on sleep and food, feeling it is my duty to solve the problem I proclaimed I will solve.


Again, tertiary Fi with auxiliary Te (strong desire to help people by finding practical solutions to their problems).
I once saw INTJs described as "the coldest humans" (as opposed to INTPs who were described as "the warmest robots", but that's off-topic). Basically, INTJs have a hard exterior but a soft interior. Their caring isn't always obvious, but it is very much there and personal (Fi).



kiribek said:


> In a group I tend to have a very low-key presence, sometimes to the point that people even don't notice I'm even there, and forget I was present at the meeting. But this tends to be the case only if I am placed into the "subordinate" or "team-member" position.


Again, that doesn't sound like a Te-dom at all. When they are in a group, their presence is obvious even if only through their attitude. ExTJs in the wild are very easy to pinpoint, INTJs less so. ENTJs also tend to "battle" for dominance, as they dislike being given orders.



kiribek said:


> If I am given a leadership role, it's anything *but* low-key. I tend to commit myself to my tasks to workaholic extremes, and if I am placed in charge of the group, I ensure to convert everyone into a workaholic as well. "Taking it slow" in the field of work is definitely *not my* motto. And even when I do my own portion of the work as a subordinate, I am often asked to slow down or chill out.


I believe that's your auxiliary Te manifesting itself. I've seen a lot of online descriptions call INTJs procrastinators, but the ones I know are very much workaholics once they're committed to something. And because they are perfectionists and Fi users, they often expect other people to meet their standards.



kiribek said:


> I have an inner desires to impress the world, and to overcome the world. I am driven to know more than the people around me, to do more than the people around me, to succeed more than the people around. I have this strange inner paranoia not *to be* but *to become* the best, and I'm willing to sacrifice my health and my sanity, if necessary, to attain that throne. When I aim for the crown, I don't assume I deserve it, I simply assume that it is something I absolutely must attain, no matter what it would cost me.


Now that bit alone sounds just like something you'd expect an ENTJ to say and frankly, that's what kept me from straight up typing you as INTJ - although I'm sure extremely ambitious INTJs exist. Even Fi seems inferior rather than tertiary here ("I simply assume that it is something I absolutely must attain, *no matter what it would cost me*").
Have you looked into the enneagram? You sound like an 8w9. I imagine 8 INTJs are more likely to look like ENTJs, with strong Te to compliment their dominant Ni and less emphasis on their Fi.

And because you're a Ni+Te user I know you're probably looking for definite conclusions and not "maybes" or "buts", so my final vote goes to INTJ.


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## kiribek (Aug 5, 2018)

INTPercent said:


> And because you're a Ni+Te user I know you're probably looking for definite conclusions and not "maybes" or "buts"


This put a big idiotic grin on my face.
Thanks, I really value your input.


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## Shrodingers drink (Nov 30, 2018)

You have all the INTJ tells, so its a pretty safe bet.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

kiribek said:


> This time I'll try to explain how my persona behaves in the external world, based on what I was able to observe. (I tried my best to look at myself from an outside/3rd-person perspective, and this is what I gathered):
> 
> - In terms of appearance:
> I am very lean, underweight to an extent, but of an average height. I try to compensate for my complexes (mainly my underweight-ness) by dressing in a tasteful, classic/elegant way. And even though I tend to put a lot of conscious effort into appearing elegant - my head prefers to be stuck in the clouds more, than to be down to earth - so my control over my appearance easily slips out of my grasp.


 Fi




> In summary, the final image I end up presenting to the world, is that of an elegant guy, who wears very few colors (mostly black, grey, beige), but often has somewhat messy hair, and an accidentally untied shoelace somewhere, and doesn't shave often.


 We have an Einstein here :happy:



> So it's a weird mix of (successfully) established reputation of perpetual elegance, *but* mixed with unavoidable neglect and hints of untidiness due to caring little about the physical world. Some people say that, in their eyes, I have the image of a "romantic" or a "poet", others says I resemble a typical evil-mastermind villain from Hollywood movies. Others comment on me creating a dark and heavy aura everywhere I go.


 Perciever, Introvert



> - In terms of behavior:
> I don't consider myself to lack emotion, or to be slow to react to the physical world, but people in 99% of cases consider me a phlegmatic, who is impossible to anger or sway from his desired path. I don't create conflict, I don't seek to needlessly engage with people.


 Feeler, seeks harmony



> Trying to provoke an emotional reaction from me is nearly impossible. And forcing me to change my opinions or decisions on anything, is even more difficult. (if however I am being continuously provoked for weeks or months, I may explode like an atomic bomb)


 :rolling: funny!!



> However, despite that, I consider myself to be extremely neurotic, have been since childhood. I take everything very closely to heart, and the excessive emotional worries I experience about even the slightest thing cause severe damage to my health. However, on the surface, all people see is an emotionless, cold stone, who's "incapable of empathy or love." (as I was told once)


 Fi?



> However, despite that seemingly grim outer image I painted above, I love helping people, and tend to run to their aid at the very first cry or call. Having that said, I don't like counseling people, and as soon as they expect me to become a shoulder to cry on, I get the fuck out, faster than a bullet leaves the barrel of a gun.


 :idunno:



> But I love helping people in the sense of solving their problems - finding practical solutions in anything I am and am not an expert in.


 Thinker


> And I commit myself to solving others' problems very obsessively, often missing out on sleep and food, feeling it is my duty to solve the problem I proclaimed I will solve.
> In a group I tend to have a very low-key presence, sometimes to the point that people even don't notice I'm even there, and forget I was present at the meeting.


 Introvert


> But this tends to be the case only if I am placed into the "subordinate" or "team-member" position. If I am given a leadership role, it's anything *but* low-key. I tend to commit myself to my tasks to workaholic extremes, and if I am placed in charge of the group, I ensure to convert everyone into a workaholic as well. "Taking it slow" in the field of work is definitely *not my* motto. And even when I do my own portion of the work as a subordinate, I am often asked to slow down or chill out.


I think this is pretty normal but not optimal as it put _a lot _of stress on your self and others.



> I have an inner desires to impress the world,


 Who doesn't?



> and to overcome the world.
> 
> I am driven to know more than the people around me, to do more than the people around me, to succeed more than the people around. I have this strange inner paranoia not *to be* but *to become* the best, and I'm willing to sacrifice my health and my sanity, if necessary, to attain that throne. When I aim for the crown, I don't assume I deserve it, I simply assume that it is something I absolutely must attain, no matter what it would cost me.


This is related to self acceptance and self esteem. In extreme degree it could be a symptom of narsissism. Sorry to say it !! 

Ok that was my take on it  Good luck!


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

INTPercent said:


> And because you're a Ni+Te user I know you're probably looking for definite conclusions and not "maybes" or "buts", so my final vote goes to INTJ.


Wouldn't it be Thinking dominance which desires definite conclusions in terms of functions?

@kiribek *Why I wouldn't rule out INTP:*
You mention a pretty strong competitive spirit, but if it's brought on by the situation _in the moment_ without leading to clearly defined long-term goals that is not actually Judging.

So I guess my question would be: do you have a clearly-defined plotted out pathway or wish for this kind of clear direction or is it more like "I want to be the best at whatever I do"? The latter would seem more like situational spontaneous energy.

Also how well organized are you, and do you usually plot out how you will use your free time?


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## Decappuccino (Nov 14, 2018)

Ocean Helm said:


> Wouldn't it be Thinking dominance which desires definite conclusions in terms of functions?


I suppose it depends on which method one works with.
With cognitive functions, not necessarily.

Ni looks to narrow a multitute of data and possibilities down to a single, satisfying solution or option. It is the "bigger picture" function.
Ne on the other hand generates many, many possibilities, and looks for connections between ideas, facts, events, etc.
As for Ti vs Te, I'm going to quote a post from another thread:



Figure said:


> *Ti* says A=B=C=D=E. It values a way of thinking in which there is a logical progression from one point to the next that creates a system. They focus on sorting out inconsistencies within their system, wanting it to "work," preferably without error. This is why Ti people tend to correct facts when they think you've mis-spoke - they tend to want consistency and accuracy, as this creates validity in their style of thinking. However well their system "works" on its own, Ti thinking sometimes misses the end goal/point, and is such criticized by
> 
> *Te: *A=E. Te people tend to be concerned with output and result. What's the end result or payout, regardless of the process or the way in which individual steps get you there, and does this amount to efficiency when all is said and done? Unlike Ti logic that deals with creating a structure that "works," Te logic simply uses what's around factually to make a strong case. "The facts are what they are, regardless of how or why, and they come together to prove X." The problem here is that sometimes Te thinking makes assumptions that are not valid and runs with them.
> 
> The difference, then, is that Ti values a logical progression in which each piece works so consistently with the next that it couldn't be logically refuted from that person's point of view (introverted), even if not practical. Te values a logical progression where multiple pieces of data from either the same or different outside sources (extraverted) is taken for exactly what it says it is, and tied together to provide enough evidence to make the proof overwhelmingly obvious, even if there is more going on beneath the surface that isn't accounted for.


So using cognitive functions, INTJs, who use both Ni and Te, look for closure. They seek correctness and precision.
INTPs however, who use Ti and Ne, are more comfortable keeping their options open and don't mind not having a single "correct" answer/solution/option, despite being Thinkers themselves.


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## kiribek (Aug 5, 2018)

Ocean Helm said:


> @kiribek *Why I wouldn't rule out INTP:*
> You mention a pretty strong competitive spirit, but if it's brought on by the situation _in the moment_ without leading to clearly defined long-term goals that is not actually Judging.
> 
> So I guess my question would be: do you have a clearly-defined plotted out pathway or wish for this kind of clear direction or is it more like "I want to be the best at whatever I do"? The latter would seem more like situational spontaneous energy.
> ...


I wouldn't say my competitiveness is situational or spontaneous. I disliked competing in my younger life, and avoided competition in general as I saw it to be a waste of energy with no worthwhile gains. Seeing competitive behavior in my peers would typically cause me to sigh and roll my eyes.
But as I grew older, I realized that competition is the only way I can get "on top" in life. And by that I mean, to get rid of the limitations and costs of living in the "bottom layer" of any human environment. If you compete, it means you put effort into accumulating power in your persona/image and in your hands (be that power expressed through reputation, achievement, material gains, immaterial gains).
The universe functions based on the principle of give-and-take. If you don't give anything, you won't be able to take anything. Seeking to compete and to win any competition you partake in, means giving a portion of your life energy, to potentially (or surely) receive some form of energy in return, and the energy you receive in return will always increase your power in life. Power over your fate, over your choices, over your opportunities, over your fortune and success. If you throw competition away, you also throw away all means of "taking control" of your life and of your world.
As soon as I realized this relationship between competition, power, and personal freedom, I became so fired up about engaging in competition, that the activity itself almost became one of my life purposes.
So my competitiveness is driven by a life philosophy I developed. It's not merely just a spontaneous instinct.

Well, I'm on-off with being organized. I'm a weird mix of organized and disorganized, and it extremely depends on the environment and situation. If we would talk of work, then one of my most valued qualities by my peers is that I tend to organize almost everything at my workplace. I've reshaped, simplified, streamlined and perfected all the work guidelines, processes. And in general, when work is concerned, everywhere I put my foot, tends to be reshaped "into a perfect structure" that is both simple/intelligible and effective/efficient. I can't stand seeing a "mess" in procedures, information, duties, plans or goals. My boss in particular now wants me to bring order to every single aspect of the workplace, as I seem to do it better than anyone else. (and enjoy it)

But if you'd ask me whether I'm organized in such things as regularly eating food, keeping my wardrobe in order, or et al. Then definitely not. I tend to create an amazing mess in things I consider to be of second priority in life. But I put great effort into keeping my imagine in order, in terms of carefully picked clothes, style, how I behave, even how I walk or gesticulate. Because I see an important purpose to all of it; because I want to have absolutely full control over the image other people see and interpret in me.
However, when it comes to behavior, I have a tendency to repeat things, such as for instance going to exactly the same cafe everyday and ordering the exact same dish everyday. I don't care much for experimenting with mundane things, and just stick to a sequence of actions that get the job done.


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

@kiribek thanks - those are very informative answers. So do you think that your deductions led you to mold yourself in an image which you're typing as INTJ, when you realized a more natural P-ish inclination wasn't getting you far? This would make quite a bit of sense. I see a lot of your language choice seems to be sort of biased toward confirming an INTJ typing.


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## kiribek (Aug 5, 2018)

Ocean Helm said:


> So do you think that your deductions led you to mold yourself in an image which you're typing as INTJ,, when you realized a more natural P-ish inclination wasn't getting you far?


I can't really identify P-ish inclinations as natural in me, for 2 reasons.
Reason 1: I spent a lot, and by that I mean a fucking lot of time, to just understand what I am. You could say I spent a fair portion of my life (all childhood, all teenhood, and a small piece of early adulthood) to "choose" a personality for myself, because until my life philosophies/ideals fully developed, I felt like I was an empty shell with no inclinations, no natural preferences or behaviors. This scared and irritated me - to not have a concrete foothold in myself, and consequently not having a concrete foothold in the world. 
So in general, I kind of avoided engaging with life, because I didn't understand how I should engage with life or why I should engage with life. What would be "the ME way" of engaging with life? I really feared of assuming a false identity, because I always felt like "who you are CAN BE a choice, and is not always naturally predetermined thing. And I want to make the most perfect choice, to avoid trashing my true fulfillment." (I guess you could say that in some way I'm a Fatalist, and I believe that every person (or thing) has *one perfect* purpose/role in life that is unique just to that person or thing. And not being able to find/attain that perfect purpose in life means wasting your existence.)
And I don't tend to argue on the statement above, because it can very well indeed be a naturally predetermined thing. But in this case then, I would argue, that nature planned for me to engage in this search of a "well chosen persona" for myself, and nature planned for me to struggle with choosing who and how I should be. I was scared of making the wrong choice, and I was scared of becoming someone I should not become/wasn't designed to become. So a lot of introspection, a lot of very hard mental effort, led to a system of values, ideals, and life philosophy, that was tested by experiences and time, to be proven to be "true" to my existence.
Reason 2: People who know me would generally identify the "irritating" sides of my personality as J-ish.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

kiribek said:


> I wouldn't say my competitiveness is situational or spontaneous. I disliked competing in my younger life, and avoided competition in general as I saw it to be a waste of energy with no worthwhile gains. Seeing competitive behavior in my peers would typically cause me to sigh and roll my eyes.
> But as I grew older, I realized that competition is the only way I can get "on top" in life. And by that I mean, to get rid of the limitations and costs of living in the "bottom layer" of any human environment. If you compete, it means you put effort into accumulating power in your persona/image and in your hands (be that power expressed through reputation, achievement, material gains, immaterial gains).
> The universe functions based on the principle of give-and-take. If you don't give anything, you won't be able to take anything. Seeking to compete and to win any competition you partake in, means giving a portion of your life energy, to potentially (or surely) receive some form of energy in return, and the energy you receive in return will always increase your power in life. Power over your fate, over your choices, over your opportunities, over your fortune and success. If you throw competition away, you also throw away all means of "taking control" of your life and of your world.
> As soon as I realized this relationship between competition, power, and personal freedom, I became so fired up about engaging in competition, that the activity itself almost became one of my life purposes.
> ...


Would you say you supress Ne and Fe/Fi?


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## kiribek (Aug 5, 2018)

Glittery Blingtron said:


> Would you say you supress Ne and Fe/Fi?


I'd say I suppress S and F, and the reason for this isn't just my own conviction, but the criticism I received from people, and particularly from parents since childhood. I always thought that emotions made people weak and stupid. I was always disregardful of my and other's emotions, and was very annoyed about the fact that I couldn't build a proper value system for myself (until just recently, when I finally succeeded to do so... sort of). I always felt that a person without a strong value system is a "nothing" and therefore doesn't deserve to be respected. My dad was particularly worried about the S side of me since childhood, since I seemed to be excessively scared and untrusting of the physical environment, thus refusing to interact/engage with it, and was too much stuck in my head to notice the changes in my environment My dad is an evident sensor, and very tuned-in with the physical environment, so he was always annoyed with my inability to be like him in this regard. He kept saying I won't be able to survive in this world if I continue on like this. He tried to compensate for my weak S by constantly dragging me out into nature and teaching me survival skills. I could pick up some skills and confidence towards the physical world, but they instantly died away as soon as my dad was gone from the picture and I returned to my default mode of existence.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

kiribek said:


> I'd say I suppress S and F, and the reason for this isn't just my own conviction, but the criticism I received from people, and particularly from parents since childhood. I always thought that emotions made people weak and stupid. I was always disregardful of my and other's emotions, and was very annoyed about the fact that I couldn't build a proper value system for myself (until just recently, when I finally succeeded to do so... sort of). I always felt that a person without a strong value system is a "nothing" and therefore doesn't deserve to be respected. My dad was particularly worried about the S side of me since childhood, since I seemed to be excessively scared and untrusting of the physical environment, thus refusing to interact/engage with it, and was too much stuck in my head to notice the changes in my environment My dad is an evident sensor, and very tuned-in with the physical environment, so he was always annoyed with my inability to be like him in this regard. He kept saying I won't be able to survive in this world if I continue on like this. He tried to compensate for my weak S by constantly dragging me out into nature and teaching me survival skills. I could pick up some skills and confidence towards the physical world, but they instantly died away as soon as my dad was gone from the picture and I returned to my default mode of existence.


I see. I am sorry to see that...


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

@kiribek another interesting reply. I feel like that didn't touch as much on your _psychological_ preferences though as this seems to be more something that developed from a philosophical basis. In some categorizations, such a Jung's, your process which you describe and I actually see play out in your posts would be indicative of some sort of "rational" typing (Thinking or Feeling dominant, which would be Thinking in your case). And in terms of correlation I would think that would _correlate_ with J, however if this is going to be one of your top arguments for being J in actual MBTI then I'd actually be more likely to think P. But if you're going against MBTI and typing with functions and not letters then you can throw what I said away.

Without hearing more about what "J" other people would see in you I can't say much about that.

PS: I remember in an earlier thread you posted some INTP vs INTJ comparison around. I shared it with a decent amount of INTPs and they seemed to overwhelmingly relate to the INTJ side more. I feel like I'm one of the few people here who really doesn't see a whole lot of difference between the two types and thinks there is a large borderline area too which is generally more just like "INTx" which is probably where I'd be more likely to see you.


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## kiribek (Aug 5, 2018)

Ocean Helm said:


> @kiribek another interesting reply. I feel like that didn't touch as much on your _psychological_ preferences though as this seems to be more something that developed from a philosophical basis. In some categorizations, such a Jung's, your process which you describe and I actually see play out in your posts would be indicative of some sort of "rational" typing (Thinking or Feeling dominant, which would be Thinking in your case). And in terms of correlation I would think that would _correlate_ with J, however if this is going to be one of your top arguments for being J in actual MBTI then I'd actually be more likely to think P. But if you're going against MBTI and typing with functions and not letters then you can throw what I said away.
> 
> Without hearing more about what "J" other people would see in you I can't say much about that.
> 
> PS: I remember in an earlier thread you posted some INTP vs INTJ comparison around. I shared it with a decent amount of INTPs and they seemed to overwhelmingly relate to the INTJ side more. I feel like I'm one of the few people here who really doesn't see a whole lot of difference between the two types and thinks there is a large borderline area too which is generally more just like "INTx" which is probably where I'd be more likely to see you.


It's true that I tend to automatically default to functions when thinking of typing myself.
But when I take strictly MBTI-based tests, I always score around 60% INTJ and 40% INTP or 55% INTJ and 45% INTP.
I do believe though that since the whole MBTI typing system is so simplistic and ambiguous, there's a hell lot of mistyped INTx's out there, and I may in fact be one of them.
One thing I know for certain at this point in my life, is that P-ish behavior doesn't make me feel fulfilled in life. Expressing myself in a J-ish way makes me feel like I'm in my bowl.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Your behavior could also be explained using behavioural, socialisation and Freudian theory:
You sought after autheritarian acnoledgement in your first socialisation period where rolemodels is a big deal.
In order to get approval you developed your approach to achieve it by the help of a _strong_ superego.


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## kiribek (Aug 5, 2018)

Glittery Blingtron said:


> Your behavior could also be explained using behavioural, socialisation and Freudian theory:
> You sought after autheritarian acnoledgement in your first socialisation period where rolemodels is a big deal.
> In order to get approval you developed your approach to achieve it by the help of a _strong_ superego.


Interesting, I'll look into that.

Edit: Looked into it.
And, well. I don't remember myself ever looking for any kind of acknowledgement from anyone. I did notice kids begging for attention and approval, but I never truly cared if someone acknowledges or approves of me. Surely, I had those random situations when I wanted to get praise for some achievement I made, but it never held any central role in my existence.
Even today, my desire for acknowledgement is extremely subdued. I ultimately and truly feel that everything I do, is for my own betterment, and expecting or focusing on getting external recognition simply makes me "weaker", because it creates a form of psychological dependency between me and the person giving the acknowledgement/recognition, as though I'm placing myself under that person's power by expecting to be acknowledged by him. I prefer independence, and I deeply dislike being under anyone's power.
And I also feel like, what I am and what I am trying to convey in this thread isn't my superego, or at the very least, isn't entirely my superego. When I'm speaking of how I feel about myself and of my development as a persona, I refer to things that grow deeply from within me, and not things that have been externally placed on me.


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