# ESFP or ENFP?



## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

limelight3 said:


> I don't know that I agree that writing is the best way to tell if a person is an Ne or a Se. When people write, they have time to think of what they're going to say and how they're going to say it. When I talk I'm very sporadic and fast. however, when I write, I will go back and erase, fix grammer, and sometimes edit because people don't have my vocal inflections nor body language to help them understand my meaning. Because the difference lies in the cognitive functions, it's a little harder to tell if it's not through conversation. It also depends on what I'm writing about. I can seem really goofy and airheaded, but I'm also spending time posting online, so I don't feel terribly motivated to show my inner, deeper thoughts. That's just my opinion though.


That's exactly me! I PM and post so much on other forums that I've used the time to try to hone my writing skills. People seem to pay more attention on forums when writing is concise, clever and funny - all of which I work on. And I go back and fix things up, too, and make sure I'm getting my point across, though I frequently go back later and find mistakes, lol. My talking in real life is nowhere near as organized.


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## limelight3 (Jul 27, 2010)

Karen said:


> That's exactly me! I PM and post so much on other forums that I've used the time to try to hone my writing skills. People seem to pay more attention on forums when writing is concise, clever and funny - all of which I work on. And I go back and fix things up, too, and make sure I'm getting my point across, though I frequently go back later and find mistakes, lol. My talking in real life is nowhere near as organized.


 
okay so this is what we have so far: We're really no closer to knowing if We're ENFP or ESFP, but we are E_FP. We also know that we are essentially the same person, so if we ever figure out what one is, than it follows that the other one must be as well. Now if only that helped us at all.....:laughing:


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

limelight3 said:


> okay so this is what we have so far: We're really no closer to knowing if We're ENFP or ESFP, but we are E_FP. We also know that we are essentially the same person, so if we ever figure out what one is, than it follows that the other one must be as well. Now if only that helped us at all.....:laughing:


That sums it up pretty well. :laughing:

It seems that if someone took the test and S had one point more than N, for example, the person would manifest each type almost equally. I wonder if that's truly how it would work out, or if even one point would flip the person into manifesting an obvious type, which is somewhat implied by the descriptions of 16 distinct types. It's not like there are dozens of distinct type descriptions, covering all the in-between possibilities. But then maybe there should be. :tongue:


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## Abstract Essence (Apr 22, 2010)

Probably if I encountered you I would have a hard time figuring you out from the outside, as well. You give me both an S and N vibe. But if you are more certain of individual functions pointing you to S, I would say that, perhaps you are an ESFP that wished to deviate from the "normal" use of your functions and fit a more ENFP picture. This could probably explain your divergence of identity. Functions are just tools that they can be used in more than one way, even if they are "naturally" inclined to act a certain way. Also remember that individuality came before Myers Briggs; I doubt any of us can use this system to completely pin down the nuaces of our psyche and display it like a trapped butterfly among a collection of specimens. Why would we want to?


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## Michael (Jul 18, 2010)

Sounds like Extraverted Sensing (S) 

First to notice and point out a flower or animal

Very sensing like

INtuitives would either not notice the details or would start associating with other thoughts, ideas, events etc.


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## njchick (Apr 8, 2010)

Michael said:


> Sounds like Extraverted Sensing (S)
> 
> First to notice and point out a flower or animal
> 
> ...


I have an ENFP daughter and an XSFP daughter, and I am highly sensing so maybe I can help. Michael has a great example. My ENFP daughter always comes from a totally different angle than I do. I see the obvious and I love the way the flower makes me feel, I like the smell, it's visually appealing. She is more dreamy and is always reading behind the reason, she'll immediately attach it to a thought or idea. She is also in honors science and will automatically bring up something inquisitive about the flower, etc.

Do you learn by being hands on? I am an experiential learner, I need to touch, see, hear and smell.
She needs to know the reason behind it, it's purpose and why in order to move forward.

She will sometimes, though she's only 15, talk as if something is fact when it is not. It's her own theory that she believes in but can sometimes be completely off in reality. She's not purposefully lying, just a quirk with the NF and her immaturity. ENFPs I know tend to get stuck on principle rather than the practical.


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## Michael (Jul 18, 2010)

njchick said:


> I am highly sensing so maybe I can help.
> 
> Do you learn by being hands on? I am an experiential learner, I need to touch, see, hear and smell.
> She needs to know the reason behind it, it's purpose and why in order to move forward.


njchick, 

You bring up a really good point about using learning styles to help identify S- N Type. 

ESxx seem to prefer by learning in a physical, hands on way. I imagine classroom lectures aren't that effective with ESxx, where as ENxx probably enjoy the explanations of complex concepts and theories.

Personally I notice that when I try to explain something to ESxx, like how to work the remote on the TV, the ES's just stare at me like I'm from an alien planet. So I always put the remote in the hands of the ESxx and then I point to the button to push. They need to "do it" to learn.


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## limelight3 (Jul 27, 2010)

Okay, looking around, I feel like I exhibit more ENFP qualities based on how I view life, my personal thoughts on things, and a couple of other things. I think the problem is that my Ne isn't very Dom, so in certain situations I prefer to use Se in deciphering things. 

I can sit and enjoy lectures and abstract ideas, in fact that's one of my best ways to learn because I have a memory for things I hear. (It's why I quote things so often. I hear it once and can parrot it back to you.) However, if it's a concrete idea (such as a TV remote), I'd rather 1. Do it myself or 2. Watch someone do it so I can do it myself. It's just more efficient. It's not that I wouldn't understand if you explained it to me, it's just that by the time you're done talking, I've already picked up the remote and turned on the tv, if that makes sense.


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## limelight3 (Jul 27, 2010)

Also, I feel that the fact that we care so much about this is a very ENFP thing to do. My younger sister is ESFP and she doesn't care about ANY of this stuff. Her words to me: "Why does it matter? You know who you are, and I know who you are, so who cares what type you are? Now can we please stop talking about this?" ...no help. :dry: 'course I was trying to have a serious discussion while we were shopping, so that might be where we went wrong.


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Karen said:


> I forgot to say something so I came back, and caught what you said. I wonder why ESFPs have that reputation on forums, that of all the types, ESFPs are least bright and most flakey.
> 
> I was going to say that I'm not very coordinated, not very good with tools, and I mainly interact with the physical environment in an enthusiastic manner. If I have to do any type of work, what I love doing is helping people work out their issues, which I'm fairly good at. I'm frequently able to bring clarity to people's lives, help them decide for themselves on the right course of action by laying out and organizing facts and emotions they've discussed with me. I also inspire people to find more enjoyment in life, helping them see that life isn't all about work and drudgery, and following a passion has great importance. Last is that when I PM with people, I go between logical PMs teaching or explaining something, such as personality typing, those that share in depth who I am and who others are, and those that are full of yippee! and jokes, lol, all about equally.
> 
> Does this still sound like ESFP, do you think?


Yes, ma'am, all of that can fall within the context of being ESFP. Again, using my ESFP friend as a point of reference, she is a _wonderful_ counselor, and she is nearly as clumsy as me.

These are some decent type descriptions:



Russell Rowe said:


> ESFP
> Motivator/ Presenter. Theme is performance.
> Warm, charming, and witty.
> *Want to impact and help others, to evoke their enjoyment, and to stimulate them to act.*
> ...





Russell Rowe said:


> ENFP
> Talents lie in *grasping profound significance, revealing truths,* and motivating others.
> *Very perceptive of others' hidden motives and purposes.*
> Interested in everything about individuals and their stories as long as they are genuine.
> ...


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## Edmond Zedo (Jul 22, 2010)

Liesl said:


> I think you underestimate how contemplative ESFPs are.


I said, and meant, "contemplative about your personality." Not "contemplative in general." 

*Everyone is contemplating something for every moment of consciousness.* However, it's quite rare for ESFPs to be interested in personality analysis based on abstract theory.


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Edmond Zedo said:


> I said, and meant, "contemplative about your personality." Not "contemplative in general."
> 
> *Everyone is contemplating something for every moment of consciousness.* However, it's quite rare for ESFPs to be interested in personality analysis based on abstract theory.


Actually, I know ESFPs who enjoyed learning about their type because it helped them understand why they were 'different.' There's a difference between being curious about it and wanting to learn more about it versus really becoming enveloped in the abstraction of it and allowing that to transform your reality. I can see where you're coming from, I just disagree.


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## Edmond Zedo (Jul 22, 2010)

Liesl said:


> Actually, I know ESFPs who enjoyed learning about their type because it helped them understand why they were 'different.' There's a difference between being curious about it and wanting to learn more about it versus really becoming enveloped in the abstraction of it and allowing that to transform your reality. I can see where you're coming from, I just disagree.


You haven't considered yourself as a confound: I propose that your delivery, as an ENFP, would make the difference between an ESFP being interested vs. not, in such theory (as it is today). The undeniable trend, taking ENFPs and ESFPs on the whole, is that vastly more ENFPs will be interested in personality theory in the average situation (such as independently discovering a test and some info on the net).


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Edmond Zedo said:


> You haven't considered yourself as a confound: I propose that your delivery, as an ENFP, would make the difference between an ESFP being interested vs. not, in such theory (as it is today). The undeniable trend, taking ENFPs and ESFPs on the whole, is that vastly more ENFPs will be interested in personality theory in the average situation (such as independently discovering a test and some info on the net).


Yes. I agree. But the people who come online are not going to be representative of the general population of ESFPs.

Let's say we're looking at a sample of 1,000 ESFPs. Maybe 950 of them aren't really into personality theory. Fine. But the 50 of them that are will be vastly more likely to be on a forum like this.

EDIT: Well, these tests are often administered in school or work settings, so a lot of people run into the subject whether they like it or not. Whether people pursue it as a peripheral interest is going to be based on a variety of factors.


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## Edmond Zedo (Jul 22, 2010)

Liesl said:


> Yes. I agree. But the people who come online are not going to be representative of the general population of ESFPs.
> 
> Let's say we're looking at a sample of 1,000 ESFPs. Maybe 950 of them aren't really into personality theory. Fine. But the 50 of them that are will be vastly more likely to be on a forum like this.


I lean closer to 5/1000 there. To me it's a question of basic motivation, and I can't see ESFPs drawn to this kind of personality study without some external reason, like a very intimate partner is vested in it. I had an ESFP best friend for years, who was well aware I was deep into personality study, but never asserted any interest whatsoever in learning what I knew. Which was perfectly fine with me, he took my word for everything related to the mind. 



> EDIT: Well, these tests are often administered in school or work settings, so a lot of people run into the subject whether they like it or not. Whether people pursue it as a peripheral interest is going to be based on a variety of factors.


I agree, and a major factor is type.


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Edmond Zedo said:


> I lean closer to 5/1000 there. To me it's a question of basic motivation, and I can't see ESFPs drawn to this kind of personality study without some external reason, like a very intimate partner is vested in it. I had an ESFP best friend for years, who was well aware I was deep into personality study, but never asserted any interest whatsoever in learning what I knew. Which was perfectly fine with me, he took my word for everything related to the mind.
> 
> I agree, and a major factor is type.


Well, maybe IQ is a factor. Or general areas of interest. I have an ESFP friend that is interested by personality type! She didn't make many original assertions about it...most of her assertions are whether or not what she reads or is told is true to her experiences. But there you have it.

EDIT: Oh, and I didn't pitch it to her. I just asked her if she would be interested to know her MBTI type one day, and she took me up on the offer.


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## Edmond Zedo (Jul 22, 2010)

Liesl said:


> Well, maybe IQ is a factor. Or general areas of interest. I have an ESFP friend that is interested by personality type! She didn't make many original assertions about it...most of her assertions are whether or not what she reads or is told is true to her experiences. But there you have it.


Right, I believe the issue is independent interest, the kind which would result in someone actively doing research, such as the individual in question. That's a level or two beyond agreeing/disagreeing with invitations and/or claims.

P.S. I don't think I.Q. is a factor here, or representative of intelligence in any case. It is a predictor of achievement in the ultra-rigid system of academic performance.


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Edmond Zedo said:


> Right, I believe the issue is independent interest, the kind which would result in someone actively doing research, such as the individual in question. That's a level or two beyond agreeing/disagreeing with invitations and/or claims.
> 
> P.S. I don't think I.Q. is a factor here, or representative of intelligence in any case. It is a predictor of achievement in the ultra-rigid system of academic performance.


The first point is a good one. But are you saying you've never come across an SP that does some active research on types and tries to understand the cognitive functions? I certainly have. Whether or not the research is extensive is a different story.


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Liesl said:


> Well, here's something that might help you discern your type one way or another. One of my close friends is ESFP and she would probably fit the majority of ENFP descriptions out there better than I would. ESFPs can be adorable, random, lively, and wonderful advisors on personal matters. I'd say the difference is that I am _constantly_ trying to understand the world and life in its entirety, trying to grasp the global context. This process of trying to 'get the whole picture' begins the moment I wake up and goes on until I go to bed. It's not quite like this with her. She's equally curious about her life, but her thoughts from moment to moment are mostly about what she's doing, where she is, and who she's with.
> 
> We both rely on each other for guidance but in different ways. She counts on me as a someone who will remind her of what is profoundly significant in life, someone who never loses sight of the big picture, the ultimate vision of what the world should be like. On the other hand, I can count on her to be a voice of sense and sensibility (at least in comparison to me). She's much more in touch with the 'reality' of a situation and what the likely outcomes are in a situation than I am.
> 
> ...


I feel silly quoting myself, but I edited out a blurb I wrote about my (alleged) ENFPness and decided I might as well include it because it probably paints the best picture.

Here's what I deleted:

I remember telling someone once that my life should be titled after the Stanley Kubrick film "Eyes Wide Shut." I often feel like I am the only one in the world who sees things for what the truly are, like everybody else is walking around with their eyes wide shut. I feel a tremendous desire to open people's eyes to the injustices of the world, to decipher and communicate universal values, and to transform people and groups according to my vision of what is good.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

I don't mean to interrupt, since I'm enjoying the discussion.

I came to personality typing independently and I've bought about 20 books on the subject, and most of which are now read. I don't have a lot of independent ideas on the subject, though I have made a document of all typing methods I've come across and do my best to compare methods with each other. 

When I asked my energy psychologist, compared to other people she sees, what would she consider a strength of mine, and she said I'm outstanding at understanding people's games and motivations. However, I'm more into joy of living than following an ENFP-type agenda, though the agenda will be in the background of my life.

What surprises people most about me is that I appear at first like an airhead, yet when they get to know me there's a depth of understanding.

For a while in the last few hours I thought ESFP was most likely, but I'm still not sure. "Inspire" is what I do, both in a joyous way and by introducing people to my latest enthusiasms, such as personality typing or about brain plasticity, though that doesn't necessarily make me ENFP.

Two of my healthcare workers - a naturopath and a rolfer - have said they're ENFP, and the difference between them and me is that I have to take over sessions and move them logically along - which I always considered to be T in ESTP, but now I guess isn't - and I'm more lighthearted and agenda-free than they are, on the whole.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Liesl said:


> I remember telling someone once that my life should be titled after the Stanley Kubrick film "Eyes Wide Shut." I often feel like I am the only one in the world who sees things for what the truly are, like everybody else is walking around with their eyes wide shut. I feel a tremendous desire to open people's eyes to the injustices of the world, to decipher and communicate universal values, and to transform people and groups according to my vision of what is good.


 
That's me exactly. Maybe I play a lot because otherwise it hurts too much? Or maybe playing and helping to inspire people is primary and my agenda is secondary? Possibly I'll never know my type until I can figure that out.

Edit to add: I can see what you see about the world - I've read dozens of books, visited uncounted websites, and educated myself - and it was devastating when I first realized. But you feel a "tremendous desire" to help, and I feel desire without necessarily following through, and maybe there's the difference? I am going to finished my major in psychology, partly because I like to connect with people and partly to be of help.


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## Edmond Zedo (Jul 22, 2010)

Karen said:


> When I asked my energy psychologist.


ENFP. If Liesl disagrees with me now, it's because we have this "thing," not because you're ESFP. Which you aren't.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Edmond Zedo said:


> ENFP. If Liesl disagrees with me now, it's because we have this "thing," not because you're ESFP. Which you aren't.


 
LOL That seems pretty clear. Thank you! 

To me, I seem to be like an ESFP in the way I act, an ENFP in the way I think.

Does anyone else have opinions on this? I'm learning quite a bit about personality types, so I'm glad I started this thread. :happy:


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Karen said:


> That's me exactly. Maybe I play a lot because otherwise it hurts too much? Or maybe playing and helping to inspire people is primary and my agenda is secondary? Possibly I'll never know my type until I can figure that out.
> 
> Edit to add: I can see what you see about the world - I've read dozens of books, visited uncounted websites, and educated myself - and it was devastating when I first realized. But you feel a "tremendous desire" to help, and I feel desire without necessarily following through, and maybe there's the difference? I am going to finished my major in psychology, partly because I like to connect with people and partly to be of help.


Hmm, it depends on what you mean by "follow through." Even when I'm not actively following through, I always feel like I'm passively fulfilling my task because I'm influencing the people that I'm around and living in sync with my beliefs.



Karen said:


> LOL That seems pretty clear. Thank you!
> 
> To me, I seem to be like an ESFP in the way I act, an ENFP in the way I think.
> 
> Does anyone else have opinions on this? I'm learning quite a bit about personality types, so I'm glad I started this thread. :happy:


I genuinely think you're likely ESFP for reasons not having to do with Edmond. It's possible that he's right, but I don't think the fact that you have an energy psychologist is reliable evidence for ENFP over ESFP.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Liesl said:


> It's possible that he's right, but I don't think the fact that you have an energy psychologist is reliable evidence for ENFP over ESFP.


I didn't mean that having an energy psychologist meant I'm ENFP. I just brought it up because she said I was good at understanding people's games and motivations. Or maybe someone else said this and I missed it?

I was just reading through ESFP on Personality Page and these are areas I'm not like. I don't know if these are key or periphery to ESFP:

They might not be the best advice-givers in the world, because they dislike theory and future-planning, but they are great for giving practical care. [I tend to be a good advice giver and don't like giving practical care, love giving emotional care.]

They love to be the center of attention and perform for people. [I like it occasionally, not always.]

They're constantly putting on a show for others to entertain them and make them happy. [Occasionally, but I more share what I've learned in an enthusiastic manner or engage in activities with people while we're having fun together.]

They would love nothing more than for life to be a continual party, in which they play the role of the fun-loving host. [Depending on their meaning of "host," I don't like being a host, and though I almost always like to be around people, I feel the strong need to be free to leave and find something more interesting whenever I want.]


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## anon (Oct 19, 2009)

Ever considered ENFJ or INFJ, Karen?


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

anon said:


> Ever considered ENFJ or INFJ, Karen?


 
Oh noes, the one letter I've never questioned? :tongue:

Seriously, I have such an open mind, and have trouble making decisions about anything more serious than what kind of pizza to have because there might be more incoming information, and bounce from one interest to another...all of which can drive my J husband crazy...that I'd give up on Myers-Briggs if that's the category I was put in. :laughing:

I can understand why you'd ask, though, based on some of my answers.


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## Edmond Zedo (Jul 22, 2010)

Karen said:


> I didn't mean that having an energy psychologist meant I'm ENFP. I just brought it up because she said I was good at understanding people's games and motivations. Or maybe someone else said this and I missed it?


Oh, that's what I meant. I do consider having an energy psychologist to be evidence for ENFP, as ENFPs more than any other type (based on much observation) are prone to find special meaning in things. Astrology, crystals, energy psychology, you name it.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Edmond Zedo said:


> Oh, that's what I meant. I do consider having an energy psychologist to be evidence for ENFP, as ENFPs more than any other type (based on much observation) are prone to find special meaning in things. Astrology, crystals, energy psychology, you name it.


I find special meaning in almost everything and to a certain extent believe almost everything, lol. Finding the truth is important to me, but for some subjects, such as UFOs, Bigfoot and auras, it makes life seem more magical and complex to have a level of belief, and the belief isn't harming anything.

The reason I'm holding back from labeling myself ENFP is that I seem more light-hearted and less serious than the average ENFP, and don't use much in the way of metaphors on a daily basis. I know I'm somewhere on the S/N continuum, but maybe it's so close to the middle that I do both S and N almost equally.


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## Edmond Zedo (Jul 22, 2010)

Karen said:


> I find special meaning in almost everything and to a certain extent believe almost everything, lol. Finding the truth is important to me, but for some subjects, such as UFOs, Bigfoot and auras, it makes life seem more magical and complex to have a level of belief, and the belief isn't harming anything.
> 
> *The reason I'm holding back from labeling myself ENFP is that I seem more light-hearted and less serious than the average ENFP*, and don't use much in the way of metaphors on a daily basis. I know I'm somewhere on the S/N continuum, but maybe it's so close to the middle that I do both S and N almost equally.


That's a good thing, certainly don't worry about that. I've developed a satisfaction paradigm called "alpha and beta." People who are appreciated for performing their tasks (which I spoke of earlier) tend toward "alpha," and people who aren't, whoever's fault that is, tend toward "beta." It's a spectrum, and I'd call you alpha.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Edmond Zedo said:


> That's a good thing, certainly don't worry about that. I've developed a satisfaction paradigm called "alpha and beta." People who are appreciated for performing their tasks (which I spoke of earlier) tend toward "alpha," and people who aren't, whoever's fault that is, tend toward "beta." It's a spectrum, and I'd call you alpha.


I'm very lucky that I seem to be able to pop up to happiness so easily after whatever is upsetting me is let go of. Talking and insights can frequently change my emotional state for the better, and even my life. It's helped my life tremendously to find out I'm an Enneagram 7 and Carol Tuttle Energy Type 1, since I was trying to be Enneagram 5, Energy Type 4...it was such a relief to let go of those and be myself. 

I was thinking quite a bit about it today and realized two things, which don't help at all, lol. So far in my life, it's been crucial to my happiness to engage in S activities, such as dancing, especially up close to the speakers so I can really feel the vibes, and engage in various mountain sports. It's also been crucial to connect deeply with people and share ideas and who we are. My INTJ husband has allowed me to probe at greath depth into his psyche, which is absolutely fascinating to me. Also, I've been very alternative from my early 20s. All my friends have been either into discussing ideas deeply or into dancing or mountain sports.

Does that help? LOL

Edit: I just thought of something to add. I picture ENFP's to be a little more angsty than me and more into helping as their main way of life. My enthusiasm and happiness are my top priorities, and after that it's essential that I do something helpful. The way it plays out in my marriage is that when my husband's needs conflict with mine, I'll bend over backwards to help him fulfill his needs, but then I make it a priority to get my happiness back, if I've lost it. If that makes any sense.


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## Edmond Zedo (Jul 22, 2010)

Karen said:


> ...Does that help? LOL
> 
> Edit: I just thought of something to add. I picture ENFP's to be a little more angsty than me and more into helping as their main way of life. My enthusiasm and happiness are my top priorities, and after that it's essential that I do something helpful. The way it plays out in my marriage is that when my husband's needs conflict with mine, I'll bend over backwards to help him fulfill his needs, but then I make it a priority to get my happiness back, if I've lost it. If that makes any sense.


I'll tell you a secret--well it's not really a secret, but I'll tell you anyway: When I type people, about the_ last _thing I consider is facts people report about themselves. If someone had to, he/she could come up with a million facts about him/herself, so the ten or 100 a person chooses to relay aren't necessarily that important. What's more important (among other things) is that you chose to relay those facts, instead of others. Someone who's tested as ENFP but doubts they're an extrovert (they usually are E) will tend to relay facts that would lead the amateur to say "I." Those facts may be entirely true, but there are a million other facts too.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Thanks for posting again, EZ. That's exactly right, there are so many facts I could post about myself that I'm making wild guesses as to which ones might be helpful.

Quite a few people on this thread think I'm ESFP and that might be true, but then again it might not be. From everything I've read about ESFPs, they tend to be conventional, and it's the Ns who are unconventional in an ideas sense. So here we go again with the facts, lol. I'm extremely unconventional in my thinking and way of life. I've broken away from what people expect of me and I live my life the way I want. I also don't have much interest in how I dress and have even worn jeans to the symphony, which isn't an interest of mine, btw. Though I'm clearly an extrovert on either people or things, I'm also an observer and analyzer of life, out of interest, fun and self education, sorting out what I think is going on and looking for hidden meanings and motivations. And maybe I said this before, but I bounce back and forth between yippee! mode, and talking seriously, sometimes for hours. Neither drain me of energy, both are enjoyable.

I spent some time last night watching supposed ESFPs and ENFPs on YouTube. I'm not as "out there" and in performance and entertaining mode as the ESFPs and not as quiet and constantly talking about my personal angst or helping the world as the ENFPs.

I seem to be either an unconventional ESFP with an extra strong interest in many types of ideas, both alternative and mainstream, which I follow through with study and discussion, or I'm an ENFP who spends more time than average in being enthusiastic and having fun, with both ideas and activities, rather than worrying about my authenticity and working to make the world a better place. Unless someone comes up with a definitive reason as to why I'm clearly ESFP or ENFP and couldn't be the other type, I'm going to have to go with EXFP, since I seem to teeter in the middle, being both types but not an expert at either.

Thanks, everyone! Sorry I can't seem to find my way to one type or another, after all this help. :blushed:


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Karen said:


> Thanks for posting again, EZ. That's exactly right, there are so many facts I could post about myself that I'm making wild guesses as to which ones might be helpful.
> 
> Quite a few people on this thread think I'm ESFP and that might be true, but then again it might not be. From everything I've read about ESFPs, they tend to be conventional, and it's the Ns who are unconventional in an ideas sense. So here we go again with the facts, lol. I'm extremely unconventional in my thinking and way of life. I've broken away from what people expect of me and I live my life the way I want. I also don't have much interest in how I dress and have even worn jeans to the symphony, which isn't an interest of mine, btw. Though I'm clearly an extrovert on either people or things, I'm also an observer and analyzer of life, out of interest, fun and self education, sorting out what I think is going on and looking for hidden meanings and motivations. And maybe I said this before, but I bounce back and forth between yippee! mode, and talking seriously, sometimes for hours. Neither drain me of energy, both are enjoyable.
> 
> ...


You definitely seem to have 'traits' of both types, but with MBTI, it's what you cannot live without that indicates what your true preference is.

To be honest, Karen, it really struck me that you would use the words "personal angst" to describe the NF obsession with identity and evaluating the self. That's the kind of detail that makes me think you're more xSFx than xNFx. I can't say for sure that the NFs I've spent time with have been necessarily representative of the entire NF population, but they never tire of searching, searching, searching for the true self. 

When I feel de-energized, I almost always take an MBTI test or read an ENFP profile. LOL. It re-energizes me to read something that describes me, it reminds me of who I am which helps me place myself in the world. The analysis of myself and people around me is something that I simply cannot stop myself from doing. My INFJ friend says that she is totally obsessed with evaluating the 'role' she is playing in every relationship and questioning whether she likes that role. I'm totally obsessed with asking "am I being who I truly am?" in every interaction, every relationship, every decision. 

My understanding is that while ESFPs will ask this question from time to time, it won't be a constant process unless they're in a period of stress. I draw my energy and inspiration from it. It's what I prioritize over everything else. Constructing my identity IS what I DO. While other people may question their identity only when they're experiencing "angst," this is what NFs do all the time.

Sidenote: I love NFs.

I'm not saying that you're not an ENFP.  I don't know what your type really is. And whatever your type is, I hope it becomes more apparent to you in the future. I originally tested as INTJ, after all. (Something that makes me laugh now.)


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## Coco (Jun 17, 2010)

If your refrigerator has a name, you're ENFP.
If your refrigerator is called Billy, you're cool.
If your refrigerator has no name but your telephone has one, you're still ENFP.
If none of your objects have a name but you think it's nice, you're something.
If you think the idea of naming objects is incredibly stupid, you're ESFP.
:happy:


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## Liesl (Jul 23, 2010)

Okay, well by those standards I'm ESFP. But I'm not, I'm ENFP. EDMOND ZEDO SAID SO. lol!


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Liesl said:


> You definitely seem to have 'traits' of both types, but with MBTI, it's what you cannot live without that indicates what your true preference is.
> 
> To be honest, Karen, it really struck me that you would use the words "personal angst" to describe the NF obsession with identity and evaluating the self. That's the kind of detail that makes me think you're more xSFx than xNFx. I can't say for sure that the NFs I've spent time with have been necessarily representative of the entire NF population, but they never tire of searching, searching, searching for the true self.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your long post. I don't know where to start! Okay, in the middle, lol. When I need energy or happiness and I'm at home, the first thing I do is grab a personality typing book. I go over and over them, placing myself and others, learning more each time. My INTJ husband's and my main topic of conversation is analyzing and typing people. We're both fascinated by typing...he because it helps him know how to deal with people, me because it gives me a greater understanding of who I am and how others think and feel.

Knowing who I am and who others are, in both a psychological and spiritual sense, is my underlying life theme. I just enjoy it and don't question my authenticity and worry whether I'm being myself...I respond to people, then analyze the interaction afterwards for enjoyment and as a learning experience, but not to make sure I was being authentic. Because the issue of authenticity keeps coming up with regard to ENFPs, it's always made me think I'm not that type. 

A couple more things that have been confusing me are that NFs seem to have a reputation for personal angst, and I have very little of it overall. Also, I know two people who seem to clearly be ENFPs, the healthcare providers - and they also say they're that type - and they both have agendas they push heavily every time I see them. I agree strongly with the agendas - New Age type issues - but I'm overall quite a bit less intense about my life and agendas, and I'm more focused on accomplishing my healthcare objectives than they are, to the point where I have to push them along every time I see them. So I have an idea in my head that ENFPs are a little heavy and unfocused, which I can't identify with, and my belief may be entirely untrue.

On the other side of my personality, I so easily live in the moment, loving wildflowers and sunsets, dancing and scenery, being enthusiastic about so much, and it sometimes seems like I don't have a brain in my head, just this present-oriented experience of the world. I live there so much that it gets confusing as to who I am.

I hadn't read Gifts Differing for months and today I spent some time going over it. I was surprised how much I've learned about myself in the past few months, since last reading about S and N and ESFPs and ENFPs. By going down the bulleted lists of Se's and Ne's and taking into account other parts of the book, I'm somewhat more Ne, and my husband thinks so too. Of both of us, I'm the more original in setting up my life, more unconventional, and am addicted to inspiration. I don't consider myself creative, though. This is what it says on page 106: "Extroverted intuitives are hard to describe because of their infinite variety." Maybe that, plus the fact that I have a strong Se, explains why I don't seem like the two other ENFPs I know, that I have less of an outward agenda and more of a free-spirit fun-loving approach to life. But underneath that, I'm always looking for meaning in my life, and I'm always questioning and questing to find underlying answers. My life has turned out to be a process of losing then finding myself and learning more who I am each time, and while this is going on I've been dancing, hiking, skiing and being enthused with nature. I did, maybe a year ago, find part of my answer to why I'm here - it's to inspire people to find passion in their lives. I don't do well with jumping into the midst of troubled areas, such as saving whales, as I picture ENFPs doing - I'm too much an Enneagram 7 for that, where I like to be happy. But as a sideline, I do frequently help others through their problems, as they help me with my troubled areas in life, and I did finally decide to finish my major in psychology rather than in botany. Though I love the black and white facts connected with botany - I could actually feel like an expert at something, which would help satisfy going to Enneagram 5 for growth - people have more complexity and I like the gray areas even more.

Is this something an ENFP would do, go on and on about themselves? :blushed:

I feel kind of weird saying I'm ENFP, like ENFPs will think I'm not deep or outwardly caring enough, but then ESFPs would likely feel I don't really fit with them either, lol. And am I truly an NF idealist when I'm so fun loving? So I'm going to try ENFP and live with it for a while, see how it fits.

Again, thanks for helping everyone. The info that turned out to not, at this point anyway, be me has help me sort out who I am. :happy:

Oh, and our truck and three house plants have names. :tongue:


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Liesl said:


> You definitely seem to have 'traits' of both types, but with MBTI, it's what you cannot live without that indicates what your true preference is.


I didn't answer this, and it's a difficult one. Living without my Se enthusiasm for nature would make my life feel dull and gray - it's one of my greatest sources of happiness. Not having insights would make me feel that I'd lost myself. Not having deep connections with people, discussing ideas and learning who they are and sharing who I am, would leave me entirely depressed - what is life, if you can't share it?

So I don't even want to think about living without any of them. :laughing: But I suppose if I had insights on a daily basis - as I do now - and great love with person/people, and possibilities for my future, I might be able to let nature go. But I'd miss it every day because of the beauty, and because all the plants are my friends, and they help open my heart chakra at times when I don't have heart connections with people.


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## Everyday Ghoul (Aug 4, 2009)

Just curious, have you given any thought to ENFJ? The tests measure J behaviors, that are more common to SJ's, so it's not particularly unusual for NJ's to mark as NP's. The intuition you discuss, is more reminiscent of introverted intuition to me, as you mention questing for and questioning the underlying meaning of things. Ne doesn't really work, that way. You also mention new age interests, and Ni would be more apt to consider the spiritual/mystical plausible, while Ne was still considering it possible. A subtle difference, but something, that we consider plausible, may be more worthy of pursuing, than something, that we consider merely possible. You also mention a desire to understand others, over being authentic or "saving whales". That could easily be Fe, instead of Fi. It is true, that Se and Ni work against each other, but ENFJ's, don't have either as a primary. Jung doesn't delve much into the development of any functions, beyond the primary. Therefore, it is entirely feasible, since they aren't the primary function, in the ENFJ, that Ni/Se could be almost equally developed. Too much Se could be a source of stress, but it could just as easily be used for relaxation, through the kind of hobbies you mentioned. If you were an ENFJ, Fe and Se would keep you connected to your environment, pretty often. Your Ni would be what would disengage you, so your intuitive pursuits would be more solitary, perhaps times of meditation or daydream states, where you fine tuned your perception of your world or worked through things, trying to find out "What's really going on?"


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

I looked again in Gifts Differing, read about ENFJ and Fe, and ENFJ isn't my personality type. My sister is ESFJ, my brother ENFJ, and their Fe has them consistently doing what's "right" with regard to people, and being irritated with me because I won't do what's right, according to their terms. My belief is that I wasn't put here to live up to people's or societies' expectations, though I am somewhat extreme in this way. Except for my husband, no one can pin me down in my personal life. I pretty much do what I want, when I want. But if someone needs emotional help, I'm the first one there and have unlimited patience and time that I'll give. It doesn't matter whether or not I like the person, I'll still help them as much as I'll help friends. And I only have friends on the Internet and in clubs so I can be free to leave any time. Did I say I value my freedom? lol But I go to clubs/gatherings frequently - sometimes every night - and get to know the people well, and I spent a lot of time talking to friends on forums and in PMs, some of whom I've known for years. Usually, though, I'll change cities and clubs and friends easily and make new ones wherever I go. The adventure, the learning experience, inspiration...that's what I follow, and the friends follow from there, and I try to help wherever I go. Also, I work at harmonizing on the Internet more than I do in life. I'm definitely not a J - my life is all about P.

It's hard, explaining who I am on a forum. I type what I think sounds like me, but then the feedback isn't always who I am so I know I haven't explained accurately.

Off to bed, thanks for bringing up ENFJ, since I got the chance to read through that type and Fe in Myers-Briggs and realize it's not me.


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