# Hannibal, Season 3



## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

The last episode, I think, was good. It kept a great pace throughout, it never lagged, and it avoided being too pretentious. I'll be interested to see how the rest of this arc plays out, although Alana is still dull as dishwater to me.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

angelcat said:


> The last episode, I think, was good. It kept a great pace throughout, it never lagged, and it avoided being too pretentious. I'll be interested to see how the rest of this arc plays out, although Alana is still dull as dishwater to me.


I agree. Very good. It reminded me how much I like _Red Dragon_. I'm really enjoying Richard Armitage as Dolarhyde, especially the way he plays the character's speech impediment. I can't wait to see if/how he does the scene with Freddie Lounds: "do you see?" And you gotta love that last line!


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

BlackFandango said:


> I agree. Very good. It reminded me how much I like _Red Dragon_. I'm really enjoying Richard Armitage as Dolarhyde, especially the way he plays the character's speech impediment. I can't wait to see if/how he does the scene with Freddie Lounds: "do you see?" And you gotta love that last line!


I think I read somewhere that filming the Freddie scene made the crew feel sick, so... yeah, it's coming.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

angelcat said:


> I think I read somewhere that filming the Freddie scene made the crew feel sick, so... yeah, it's coming.


Yay! Though, somehow I don't hate Freddie here as much as I do in the novel and other films, so seeing her go out in blaze of glory won't be so satisfying. Maybe it's sexist blinders, and I have a harder time hating her because she's an attractive woman. I don't know. Though, is it me, or is this version of Freddie less "Tattler," and more "Tumblr"?


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## TTIOTBSAL (May 26, 2014)

Not seen yet. Subscribing.


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## Dakris (Jun 14, 2012)

Saw the first episode of season 3 earlier, and it was great. I felt more like I was watching a movie than a series. It had a filmic feel to it, more so than the earlier seasons. Those close-up scenes are really cool and something special.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Some people didn't seem to like Season 3 so far. I found it more tongue-in-cheek and operatic -- like the show was meta'ing itself. They also basically took the key events from Hannibal (revolving around Mason Verger) for the first half of Season 3 (and stuck verger backstory into the tail of Season 2), and since they basically played up Mason to almost the level of camp and the show up to the level of amusing self-deprecation, I didn't mind it. it was rather fun, especially episode 7 where FINALLY all the pieces we've been waiting for since Season 1 fell into place and everyone was properly positioned for Red Dragon.

I'm disappointed no one picked it up. It's pretty much my favorite show, simply due to the exquisite production values / cast and its willingness to try an existential arthouse approach versus a formulaic linear by-the-numbers plot. (It reminds me of the movie Under the Skin, which is kind of a quasi-sci-horror movie done as arthouse, just as this is a detective/crime show done in similar style.)



angelcat said:


> I think I read somewhere that filming the Freddie scene made the crew feel sick, so... yeah, it's coming.


I didn't know whether they'd carry through with the Freddie Lounds bit (since they changed the gender of the character for the series), and I hadn't read stuff from the crew, but I've been having a bad feeling about it now that we're up to Red Dragon. So... hoo boy. That is going to be ugly. (Will, you bastard -- you can run from your connection to lecter but you can't hide.)

Not that other seasons haven't had cast who have been cut up and decimated, so ... kinda par for the course.



angelcat said:


> ...No, I don't think Bedelia betrayed him... but Alana would know to look for certain expensive items in exotic shoppes, since she knows what things are to his particular taste.


Yup, she was in bed (well literally and figuratively) with Lecter for some time and in the same kind of sick twisted dance. He just knows how to get into people's heads and under their skin. (Too many dark puns for this show.) So she could recognize his tastes and know what to look for.

I really like Bedelia. The end of Season 2 was a shocker for me, just totally WTF.



BlackFandango said:


> I agree. Very good. It reminded me how much I like _Red Dragon_. I'm really enjoying Richard Armitage as Dolarhyde, especially the way he plays the character's speech impediment. I can't wait to see if/how he does the scene with Freddie Lounds: "do you see?" And you gotta love that last line!


Armitage is good, and I like the directing/camera shots and effects on him so far where you can definitely feel and almost perceive him transforming and the dragon emerging.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

New episode of Hannibal (aired last night): More of the same great delicious goodness that the first episode of the Dragon arc offered.

Yeah, feeling really bad for Freddie now... 

* *




She kind of ambushed Will, they really dislike each other to start with, and in that conversation she actually told Will to "use" her, and then this episode also involves discussion of the "pets" that Dolarhyde always takes care of before the master. I don't think she meant in the way it is likely to play out...




There's a number of interactions with Lecter in this episode by various cast members, and while they were decent enough in the book, and while Seasons 2.5 seemed to meander at times, they all serve to deepen the understanding for the audience of how Lecter could screw around with and get into people's heads -- so now all these great interactions (some of which we would know from the book) take on a number of deep emotional layers of understanding. They made my skin crawl, knowing what kinds of relationships with Hannibal these characters have had. 

I like how Lecter keeps speaking to Will in the first-name personal basis, whereas Will formalizes their relationship in an attempt to keep him distant. Hannibal is asserting they are intimately connected, Will is pushing back and saying they are not.. but it's a denial Will is doing just to stay sane. I also really like will's interactions with Molly.

I wonder if the Verger baby would have ever made an appearance later.

Also, some great Lecter flashbacks with one of my favorite characters...


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## stiletto (Oct 26, 2013)

When I first started watching this show, I was hoping to like Hannibal's character a great deal. I feel kind of let down at how predictable he is. I found myself liking Will very much. I guess I'm just weird but I find him so sexy when he's almost seizing from trauma... :ninja:

I liked Alana at the beginning, but she somehow morphed into this pitiful character, ugh. Never liked Freddie... or any of the females except Bedelia for that matter


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## Derange At 170 (Nov 26, 2013)

It is like they're hoping to offset the incrasingly stupid plot with increasingly pseudo-intellectual psychobabble.

It's watchable, but grating at the same time.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

Damn, this was a fucking great episode!


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

BlackFandango said:


> Damn, this was a fucking great episode!


I'm starting to think the writer has a thing for surreal / Ni-esque sex scenes.

Not that I'm bitter that Hannibal and Bedelia didn't get one or anything.

I freaking love Bedelia. She and Will both know what's gone on with her, and he can't prove it, so she's untouchable, and she's rubbing it in his face, and it's just... hilariously, wickedly awesome.


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## Emerald Legend (Jul 13, 2010)

I've lost wood for Hannibal at season 3..halfway through the season and you';re using flashbacks and too many theatrics and nothing much is happening? gtfo..


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

angelcat said:


> I'm starting to think the writer has a thing for surreal / Ni-esque sex scenes.
> 
> Not that I'm bitter that Hannibal and Bedelia didn't get one or anything.
> 
> I freaking love Bedelia. She and Will both know what's gone on with her, and he can't prove it, so she's untouchable, and she's rubbing it in his face, and it's just... hilariously, wickedly awesome.


Bedelia and Will's scenes together are fantastic! The way they have both a shared understanding, but also get under each other's skin is enthralling to watch. And, of course, Zachary Quinto is a joy to watch in anything.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

So, this episode... Not _bad_ per se, but not as strong as many recent ones. Had that checklist quality I mentioned earlier. Feels like the writers are setting up the end of the season, so maybe I'll like this better in hindsight, but right now I found it a bit dull.

I did really enjoy the stuff with Will's family, though; there was plenty of suspense because I wasn't sure if the writers were actually gonna kill them or not, and I like how resourceful they make Molly in her ability to outsmart and evade the Dragon. Always nice to see a female character save herself from danger.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

The stuff with Molly was excellent.

Everything else was a bore.

In my opinion, this season has terrible trouble with pacing.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

Episode 12. Didn't I say they'd chicken out with a female Lounds? Also, the way they did it doesn't really make sense. In the book, it was clear that Will told those disparaging things to Lounds, which is why they were expecting the Dragon to go after Will, and were surprised when he went for Lounds. Here, it's made to seem as though they were Chilton's opinion, so why wouldn't he go after Chilton. Also, it lessens Will's guilt, because Will hated Lounds, whereas here he seems to harbor, at worst, a mild dislike of Chilton.

Other than that though, good episode. Not great, but perfectly solid. I like the Bedelia is Will's therapist.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

I'm a bit appalled at how awful all the characters are now -- setting Chilton up like that, and literally not appearing to care about the heinous thing done to him. I hate them all. I don't even like Will anymore. 

The only one I still enjoy is Bedelia, and that's mainly because she's intelligent. But I don't think she's intentionally cruel like the rest of them are.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

angelcat said:


> I'm a bit appalled at how awful all the characters are now -- setting Chilton up like that, and literally not appearing to care about the heinous thing done to him. I hate them all. I don't even like Will anymore.
> 
> The only one I still enjoy is Bedelia, and that's mainly because she's intelligent. But I don't think she's intentionally cruel like the rest of them are.


Can't really argue with you there. I still like Hannibal, though; he's the same magnificent bastard he's always been. Like I said, if the writers had set it up properly, as it was in the book, they wouldn't come off so bad. Oh well, only one episode left, then to all appearances this series is gone for good. I expect at this point, my friend, you have mixed feelings about that fact, at best. Or has this series damaged its standing with you to the point where you will be glad to be done with it?


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## lord_voldemort (Aug 22, 2015)

I personally loved seasons 1 and 2, but not so much season 3. The first episode was good, but I watched about 3 episodes after that and I just didn't like it so I stopped watching. It may have been because I was tired to the point where I was nearly falling asleep, but I had no idea what was going on. It kept jumping from past to present and whatever was happening was too slow for me to follow. I really hope the rest of season three is more like the first 2 seasons. Still sucks that it got cancelled. It was the most visually stunning and artistic show on tv.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

I have a hard time liking shows where there is NO ONE with any ethics anymore. Will had them once, but they're gone. He's a soulless shadow now. Jack never had them. Alana used to annoy the crap out of me, but at least she wasn't a stone cold bitch. 

I think my lack of caring that it's been cancelled stems now more from boredom with the pseudo intellectualism of the show this season and less from anything else; frankly, it's gotten too artsy for its own good, which means it's slow, plodding, and dull. Great acting but it lost my interest in episode 2 and never really regained it.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

There's really nobody to be sympathetic with anymore, it's become complete apathy. 

My only comment would be.. 
* *




Margo and the pig. W...T....F... That's credulity stretched beyond reason. Total narm.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

BlackFandango said:


> Episode 12. Didn't I say they'd chicken out with a female Lounds? Also, the way they did it doesn't really make sense. In the book, it was clear that Will told those disparaging things to Lounds, which is why they were expecting the Dragon to go after Will, and were surprised when he went for Lounds. Here, it's made to seem as though they were Chilton's opinion, so why wouldn't he go after Chilton. Also, it lessens Will's guilt, because Will hated Lounds, whereas here he seems to harbor, at worst, a mild dislike of Chilton.
> 
> Other than that though, good episode. Not great, but perfectly solid. I like the Bedelia is Will's therapist.


First of all, episode 12, "......the Horror...." God that was one of the scariest episodes yet, for me. The entire sequence with Chilton glued to the chair, lips bitten off, set on fire, and then him still alive in the burn ward. Jesus Christ.

I watch these episodes on a big screen TV, at night, with high end audio equipment. It's like entering the surreal horror that this show is.



"Here, it's made to seem as though they were Chilton's opinion, so why wouldn't he go after Chilton." The Dragon did go after Chilton, to say the least. But Will was in the photo, "touching" him on his shoulder. Am a little confused by what you're sayin'. 

Crawford: "Dr. Chilton, you just lay out your theories and Will will aggravate them for the record." Will put words in Chilton's mouth.



BlackF, I am coming at this without having read the book (though I'm aware of a lot of the differences) so while this season has had it's bumps early on, I still love it and the characters and the surrealness, which I give myself over to. And in doing so, I am often confused as to some of the characters behaviours.

WHY does Will "participate" in putting Chilton at such risk? Here we go back to this idea that Will is always teetering on the verge of becoming a monster (right? but what?? no way. that's just not his character). Specifially, this is more than apparent in the Bedelia sessions. 

Hannibal references the Bible, specifically Revelations a lot in this episode (which I love) but not about the Beast as much as the "wrath of the Lamb" Will being the Lamb (or in the bible, I guess that would be jesus?).

I still love the show. the pros far outway the cons for me. 

sidenote- learned a new word: 
_*Contrapasso* is one of the few rules in Dante's Inferno. It is the one “law of nature” that applies to hell, stating that for every sinner's crime there must be an equal and fitting punishment._

In college I LOVED Dante's Inferno. I ACED the essays/tests on it because I was almost obsessed with it. 


Oh, hahaha, I literally lol'd when Hannibal ate one of Chilton's lips. hahahaha, still laughing. Love that that (very) dark humor.

Just remembered, Hannibal DOES call them all out for being responsible for Chilton's demise. "You saw the hole and let him role right into it. That's professional discourtesy."

As far as Alana and Jack, I can rationalize them doing this as their obsession with catching the Beast (it's personal now with Will's real family and Alana, Jack, and Will ARE family of sorts). And none of them respect Chilton, so why not use him for bait? But none of them could have predicted what happened to him (I think). Very naughty, Alana, Jack, and Will. Very naughty.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

I'm still mesmerized by the show, too. I can understand why it's being criticized for being artsy and pseudo-intellectual and the characters all being unlikable, but when I watch it, I don't see it. I thought it made sense for Will to set up Chilton. It reminded me of an episode earlier in the season when Bedelia set someone up. This last half of the season is trying to draw parallels between Will and Bedelia since both are the brides of Hannibal. I think the show fully intended to end with Will back on moral ground based on that conversation they had before about him wanting to help an injured bird. Alternately, though, they might set up another session with Bedelia in which Will reveals that he, too, now wishes to crush the bird, and that he is now as tainted as Bedelia. Either way, Will would be facing Reckoning Day.

Whether or not any of the characters have ethics now (which I find debatable), I still find quite a few of them interesting as hell. I find the Will/Bedelia sessions more intriguing than the Red Dragon scenes.

Speaking of the Red Dragon scenes, though, Jesus, that was the first episode for which I cringed and closed my eyes. I could scarcely breathe from the moment I saw Freddie take that picture of Will and Chilton (I've read the book). Mason peeling his own face off? I could watch that. The little girl who cut faces open? I could watch that. But when Dolarhyde put those teeth on, I had to cover my eyes. Jesus Christ.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

star tripper said:


> I'm still mesmerized by the show, too. I can understand why it's being criticized for being artsy and pseudo-intellectual and the characters all being unlikable, but when I watch it, I don't see it. I thought it made sense for Will to set up Chilton. It reminded me of an episode earlier in the season when Bedelia set someone up. This last half of the season is trying to draw parallels between Will and Bedelia since both are the brides of Hannibal. I think the show fully intended to end with Will back on moral ground based on that conversation they had before about him wanting to help an injured bird. Alternately, though, they might set up another session with Bedelia in which Will reveals that he, too, now wishes to crush the bird, and that he is now as tainted as Bedelia. Either way, Will would be facing Reckoning Day.
> 
> Whether or not any of the characters have ethics now (which I find debatable), I still find quite a few of them interesting as hell. I find the Will/Bedelia sessions more intriguing than the Red Dragon scenes.
> 
> Speaking of the Red Dragon scenes, though, Jesus, that was the first episode for which I cringed and closed my eyes. I could scarcely breathe from the moment I saw Freddie take that picture of Will and Chilton (I've read the book). Mason peeling his own face off? I could watch that. The little girl who cut faces open? I could watch that. But when Dolarhyde put those teeth on, I had to cover my eyes. Jesus Christ.


Haha, I think we're in the same boat as far as the "nightmare factor" of this episode. I could probably analyze why, but this one really struck some psychological horror buttons. Even Chilton sitting in that burn ward tub thing, like, chills. btw, they did a good job leaving us (yet again) asking, "well is he alive? god i hope not. oh fuck he is. that's not cool."


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## SpectrumOfThought (Mar 29, 2013)

Hated this season; what a disappointment. They're stretching everything to make it seem deeper than it really is. Cheap effects, unrealistic characters, and so on.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

Has anyone noticed no one has any personality now? It's like they're all ghosts giving voice to high abstracting conversations. No souls.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

johnnyyukon said:


> BlackF, I am coming at this without having read the book (though I'm aware of a lot of the differences) so while this season has had it's bumps early on, I still love it and the characters and the surrealness, which I give myself over to. And in doing so, I am often confused as to some of the characters behaviours.
> 
> WHY does Will "participate" in putting Chilton at such risk? Here we go back to this idea that Will is always teetering on the verge of becoming a monster (right? but what?? no way. that's just not his character). Specifially, this is more than apparent in the Bedelia sessions.
> 
> ...


I would recommend checking out the books. You'll like them if you like the show, and they'll give you more perspective on the characters. And yes, the term "Lamb of God" does refer to Christ, who in his crucifixion, became a sacrificial lamb.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

So, this is the end. Yes, I like that ending very much.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

... that was pretty damn Hitchcockian there at the end.


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## johnnyyukon (Nov 8, 2013)

@angelcat I've only seen a few Hitchcock films. How so?
@BlackFandango I enjoyed it thoroughly, yet, I'm not sure I understood it fully. The only thing I can think of at this point was that it ended the way it did because A. it didn't get renewed and B. Hannibal had his Lover (?), Will, just the way he wanted him and I guess wanted that moment to last forever (or end there).

Odd that he was just talking about suicide being "the enemy" and Hannibal pulls this. But it's as if Will in a way, knew it would come to this and didn't mind so much cuz H. was his lover too, and "lover" being used in a way I've never used it.

I could be missing some dots, as I haven't been analyzing this season much (maybe there's not much there), but one thing seems for sure, I need to finish up the book, Red Dragon. I'm aware of some of the differences (pretty sure it doesn't end like this, ha. too bad, H. still had Clarice to look forward to).

If this show is really over, I'll shed a tear. In a martini.


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## muslamicinfidel (Aug 2, 2015)

johnnyyukon said:


> @angelcat I've only seen a few Hitchcock films. How so?
> @BlackFandango I enjoyed it thoroughly, yet, I'm not sure I understood it fully. The only thing I can think of at this point was that it ended the way it did because A. it didn't get renewed and B. Hannibal had his Lover (?), Will, just the way he wanted him and I guess wanted that moment to last forever (or end there).
> 
> Odd that he was just talking about suicide being "the enemy" and Hannibal pulls this. But it's as if Will in a way, knew it would come to this and didn't mind so much cuz H. was his lover too, and "lover" being used in a way I've never used it.
> ...


I have this feeling Hannibal orchestrated the whole thing. He knew it would end this way...he was just giving Will to recognise the beast within himself. It was beautiful to see will turn bad.

Like you i will shed a tear too, I really hope Amazon buy it or something. I think the main reason it had to end is because the next chapter of the story involves Agent Starling and the Clarice Starling name is owned by MGM and the talks went sour. You prob already know this though.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

How the fuck were they gonna do S4 with that ending? Or did they have this backup ending in case the show was canceled?

I am so utterly depressed. I haven't been this passionate about a show in years and it ended so... satisfyingly grotesquely. I'm gonna miss it, and I hope it makes some sort of impact on television as a whole.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

star tripper said:


> How the fuck were they gonna do S4 with that ending? Or did they have this backup ending in case the show was canceled?
> 
> I am so utterly depressed. I haven't been this passionate about a show in years and it ended so... satisfyingly grotesquely. I'm gonna miss it, and I hope it makes some sort of impact on television as a whole.


I think the original plan was to do _Red Dragon_ in Season 4, but the cancellation writing was on the wall, so they decided to fast-track it. So, essentially Season 3 is two seasons, compressed down, and stuck together, which is probably what contributed to the pacing issues @angelcat mentioned. According to Hugh Dancy, this finale was done in such a way so as to leave it open to return, but make for a satisfying ending if it doesn't. 
* *




Personally, I'd be happy if it didn't return; Will killing Hannibal in a murder-suicide is a perfect ending to their story. At the very least, I'd rather Will stay dead.


 Though, apparently Bryan Fuller has an idea for a _Silence of the Lambs_ film with Ellen Page as Clarice Starling. Also, we were supposed to meet Lady Muraski and Hannibal's uncle Robertus. The latter was meant to be played by some old English guy named David Bowie. Never heard of him, myself.


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

johnnyyukon said:


> @angelcat I've only seen a few Hitchcock films. How so?


Having Will accept his dark fate as a murderer who finds beauty in death and then wrap his arms around Hannibal and leap to his (presumed) death is a very Alfred Hitchcock move. 

I didn't like the shot after the credits. I was hoping Bedelia would get away without enduring bodily harm. Boo.

Richard Armitage was a fine Dollarhyde, that's for sure, but overall I prefer the movie Red Dragon. Hopkins is scarier, and that Will is at least... sane.


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## BlackFandango (Apr 4, 2014)

angelcat said:


> Having Will accept his dark fate as a murderer who finds beauty in death and then wrap his arms around Hannibal and leap to his (presumed) death is a very Alfred Hitchcock move.
> 
> I didn't like the shot after the credits. I was hoping Bedelia would get away without enduring bodily harm. Boo.
> 
> Richard Armitage was a fine Dollarhyde, that's for sure, but overall I prefer the movie Red Dragon. Hopkins is scarier, and that Will is at least... sane.


I'm assuming you're thinking of the end of _Vertigo_ there. The first half of S2 is pretty Hitchcockian as well, with the whole wrong-man-accused thing, which was a Hitchcock staple beginning with his third film, _The Lodger_. (Last year I went through Hitchcock's entire filmography while reading along in Truffaut's book-length interview with him.)

I really like Ralph Finnes as Dolarhyde in _Red Dragon_, but I have mixed feelings about the rest of the film. By that point Hopkins' portrayal of Lecter had descended into self-parody and his role in the story was needlessly expanded, while Edward Norton was uncharacteristically bland as Graham. Personally, I prefer William Petersen's turn in _Manhunter_, which strikes a nice balance–not as neurotic as Dancy, but more nuanced and intense than Norton.


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## starscream430 (Jan 14, 2014)

Man...I really want to binge-watch this show now. I saw one episode...in Israel out of all places...and I was hooked on both the acting (especially Mads Mikkelsen as the titular doctor) as well as the overall cinematography of the episodes. The cooking scenes are especially quite fluid and relaxing to watch. 

I'm sad that it's finished, but I hope it will come back in some form. This is intriguing news concerning the future of this show: Bryan Fuller says Hannibal could still return, talks Silence Of The Lambs casting · Newswire · The A.V. Club

Also, I'm looking forward to the Hannibal cookbook that will be coming soon. This is coming from somebody who loves cooking meat :kitteh:.


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