# INTJ vs. ENFP Fight Advice?



## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

Recently, me and my friend, who's an ENFP, have been getting into verbal fights. At times where I voice my own opinion about something, she tells me that I'm being rude. Now, like a typical INTJ, I regard her as a drama queen and irrational at times, but she can be a good friend. She had once stated that I hid behind a computer screen and pretended to not be a jerk, although the last time I was 'tactless' to her without a computer screen, she literally tackled me. She takes almost everything personally, and can be very belligerent.

She assumes that I am a passive person, since I used to act like an ExFP around my friends. That was when I did it to deal with depression issues. However, now that I'm revealing my INTJness, she commented that I'm getting meaner. Any advice to help me deal with all this?


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## AddictiveMuse (Nov 14, 2013)

i don't understand the full story
she just got a temper all of a sudden?
did you do something?
something's obviously wrong..
if this is you the real you..you can't really change that
did she know of your depression issues?
i suggest talking to her about this


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## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

Rumex said:


> However, now that I'm revealing my INTJness, she commented that I'm getting meaner.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Rumex said:


> Recently, me and my friend, who's an ENFP, have been getting into verbal fights. At times where I voice my own opinion about something, she tells me that I'm being rude. Now, like a typical INTJ, I regard her as a drama queen and irrational at times, but she can be a good friend. She had once stated that I hid behind a computer screen and pretended to not be a jerk, although the last time I was 'tactless' to her without a computer screen, she literally tackled me. She takes almost everything personally, and can be very belligerent.
> 
> She assumes that I am a passive person, since I used to act like an ExFP around my friends. That was when I did it to deal with depression issues. However, now that I'm revealing my INTJness, she commented that I'm getting meaner. Any advice to help me deal with all this?


People act differently when they see and admire stereotypical traits within typology. It's kind of a danger, that you lose your sense of self, in the idea of what you're supposed to be, rather than what you truly are.

It sounds like your ENFP friend is picking up on that. You're being meaner, because you perceive INTJs as being such.

You probably don't even like being this way, so why indulge in senseless behaviour?

Behaviour is universal across types. Cognitive causation for that behaviour is more difficult to pinpoint.

Seeing as you're quite young, my advice to you is to listen to your friend a little more. It sounds like you've been downright insulting her intelligence, and excusing it away as being honest.

Step away from type for awhile and look at your relationship as two people, instead.


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## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

Word Dispenser said:


> People act differently when they see and admire stereotypical traits within typology. It's kind of a danger, that you lose your sense of self, in the idea of what you're supposed to be, rather than what you truly are.
> 
> It sounds like your ENFP friend is picking up on that. You're being meaner, because you perceive INTJs as being such.
> 
> ...


Meaner? I don't know, honestly. For years I've been passive about her behavior, which consisted of ridiculously long periods of laughing and jokes that can be mean at inappropriate times. I don't know why I've put up for so long, it might be for her sake, since she's called a drama queen many times and lost friends because of her acting that way. But it's been eating away at me for years, and I really can't seem to state an opinion without her jumping on me. So I guess it's partially my fault for being shut up and passive, but I didn't really want to endanger our friendship. But now it's driving me crazy. 

About the admiring stereotypical traits, I suppose it's true. I've admired how other INTJ's could speak out their opinions while I forced myself to silence, not just to my friend, but to my parents because I was told everyday to be an obedient child and not speak up against their opinions. Though I don't know if I'm straying from my sense of self because I forced myself to be passive, which I now know is a mistake that I regret.

Insulting her intelligence...hmm. Well, we don't really fight on intellectual topics. I know she's smart, but I just don't get why she must act in such manner. Last time we fought, it was because I commented that a K-pop star looked like he was thirteen.


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## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

yet another intj said:


>


xD that made me laugh.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

get two pairs of tube socks and fill them with warm cow manure and then you and your friend go outside and put these socks on and then start flinging mud at each other... 

Caution: when running in these socks, it can get slippery.


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## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

AddictiveMuse said:


> i don't understand the full story
> she just got a temper all of a sudden?
> did you do something?
> something's obviously wrong..
> ...


Sorry for not giving a full explanation, but 
1. No, she always was like this.
2. Sort of. I commented on a picture and she was irritated by my comment.
3. Not really. All she knew was that I had low self esteem.


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## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

Eudaimonia said:


> get two pairs of tube socks and fill them with warm cow manure and then you and your friend go outside and put these socks on and then start flinging mud at each other...
> 
> Caution: when running in these socks, it can get slippery.


Yes. Cow manure is an effective treatment to endangered friendships.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Rumex said:


> Yes. Cow manure is an effective treatment to endangered friendships.


I didn't say it would help your friendship. Just thought I'd give you "fight" advice. Try it and tell me how it turns out.


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## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

Rumex said:


> I've admired how other INTJ's could speak out their opinions while I forced myself to silence, not just to my friend, but to my parents because I was told everyday to be an obedient child and not speak up against their opinions. Though I don't know if I'm straying from my sense of self because I forced myself to be passive, which I now know is a mistake that I regret.


I'm sorry but I couldn't resist... Once again.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

yet another intj said:


> I'm sorry but I couldn't resist... Once again.


Love Vincent Price. I don't care that he is dead... I'd still marry him.


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## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

Eudaimonia said:


> I didn't say it would help your friendship. Just thought I'd give you "fight" advice. Try it and tell me how it turns out.


I certainly have no idea how I would be able to persuade the ENFP to don socks filled with cow manure...


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Rumex said:


> I certainly have no idea how I would be able to persuade the ENFP to don socks filled with cow manure...


No, of course not. What was I thinking? Or... you could tell her that is the way to attract fairies from their hiding places. That has worked on every ENFP I've encountered.

Somehow all my ENFP friends wind up in cow manure socks one way or the other. They are great that way.

Sounds like your friend may have something else going on if most of her friends have kicked her to the curb. (possibly a personality disorder) So, you could either do the same as what the others have done or you can remain her only friend and develop resistance to her and some emotional distance for the sake of self preservation.


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## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

Eudaimonia said:


> No, of course not. What was I thinking? Or... you could tell her that is the way to attract fairies from their hiding places. That has worked on every ENFP I've encountered.
> 
> Somehow all my ENFP friends wind up in cow manure socks one way or the other. They are great that way.
> 
> Sounds like your friend may have something else going on if most of her friends have kicked her to the curb. (possibly a personality disorder) So, you could either do the same as what the others have done or you can remain her only friend and develop resistance to her and some emotional distance for the sake of self preservation.


Or I could tell her that by doing so, she would receive free chocolate for the rest of her life. That would be pretty effective.

It's kind of the opposite effect. My resistance is wearing off and my need for self preservation is growing.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Rumex said:


> Or I could tell her that by doing so, she would receive free chocolate for the rest of her life. That would be pretty effective.
> 
> It's kind of the opposite effect. My resistance is wearing off and my need for self preservation is growing.


What is keeping you from shedding her?


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## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

Eudaimonia said:


> What is keeping you from shedding her?


'Shedding her'...

The fact that underneath the behavior of a drama queen, she's someone with low self esteem, who believes that everyone hates her. The fact that I know she can be an excellent friend, even though I rarely see that side of her nowadays.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Rumex said:


> 'Shedding her'...
> 
> The fact that underneath the behavior of a drama queen, she's someone with low self esteem, who believes that everyone hates her. The fact that I know she can be an excellent friend, even though I rarely see that side of her nowadays.


So, it sounds like she is doing to you what she has done to other people and she is pushing even harder to prove her point because you won't fold like the others.

I'm not telling you not to be her friend, but I was curious about what was motivating you to keep this friendship.

Do you feel bad for her because she thinks she is unlovable? Is this why you are a loyal friend to her?

For some people the people closest to them are the ones they are going to blame more and turn against more. She might even start blaming you for all her problems if I'm getting the right impression of her.

You might want to calmly shine a mirror in her direction to tell her that her behaviour towards relationships is self sabotaging. If she becomes angery, then walk away (silently) and let her think about it on her own. Let it sink in by herself because your presence will prevent her from introspecting.

Since she is an Extrovert her feelings are going to show outside of her more and she is going to be more defensive. She has a lot going on and she might need a professional to talk to... but I wouldn't suggest that to her until she brings it up first only because if she is doing what I suspect she is doing, she will blame you for thinking she is insane and then be more resistant to going to seek help.

If you are walking on eggshells around her... then she might have layers of emotional problems which you aren't going to be able to fix on your own.


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## Rumex (Jan 20, 2014)

Eudaimonia said:


> So, it sounds like she is doing to you what she has done to other people and she is pushing even harder to prove her point because you won't fold like the others.
> 
> I'm not telling you not to be her friend, but I was curious about what was motivating you to keep this friendship.
> 
> ...


That is partially the reason why I'm still around. The other reasons are that I think that there's still time left for her to introspect and fix her problems. Though I think that she is beginning to accept a theory that it is in her nature to act this way...

Another thing that I forgot to bring up is that I think that she's afraid of being alone. She fought with me over the fact that I neglected her and hung out with my other friends, which implies that one day, I, who she acknowledged as a very loyal friend, will also leave her like her other friends. I'm planning to do the best I can to remedy this problem, but I am sure that she's deep in depression and I don't think that she is talking to someone about any of her emotional problems.


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## Eudaimonia (Sep 24, 2013)

Rumex said:


> That is partially the reason why I'm still around. The other reasons are that I think that there's still time left for her to introspect and fix her problems. Though I think that she is beginning to accept a theory that it is in her nature to act this way...
> 
> Another thing that I forgot to bring up is that I think that she's afraid of being alone. She fought with me over the fact that I neglected her and hung out with my other friends, which implies that one day, I, who she acknowledged as a very loyal friend, will also leave her like her other friends. I'm planning to do the best I can to remedy this problem, but I am sure that she's deep in depression and I don't think that she is talking to someone about any of her emotional problems.


It can be a balancing act because it is hard to know what is feeding the dependency and what is helping her manage her emotions better. If she is clever, it can go both ways of her seeing new ways to manipulate and or seeing ways that can improve herself. It is ultimately up to her whether she decides to better herself. You can help her and you can be there for her, but if she remains broken, then you can not or should not blame yourself.

It is a hard fact that we can all destroy ourselves whether it be social or emotional or literal suicide no matter how much love surrounds us because much of our perceptions are in our head. She can rewrite her hurt and her past inside herself for as much as people don't believe they can those things are a part of what we want to believe more than it is based on solid facts. (that is the magic of comedy; making a joke out of the horrific things in our lives)

If she is fighting, then that is a good sign. If she comes to the point where she becomes quiet and resolved and aggreeable in a very quiet and passive way -she might even laugh politely at your jokes- that is when you really need to worry that she has given up.

Otherwise, her bitchiness and neurosis is becoming her comfort zone like an old sofa where she'd rather sit than not anymore. It is the life she is creating and she is getting off on it.

Believe me when I say that I'll accept that I'm wrong and you can take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I've gone down this road before... and to be honest it was SO hard and emotionally draining that I dont' think I'll ever do it again.


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