# Stupid question: Can NT's be stupid?



## TwinAnthos (Aug 11, 2014)

Sempiturtle said:


> Wrong. Every human being has their own useful qualities. No one is perfect but the fact that one strives to be is anything but stupid.
> 
> Using said word is very subjective as well. No one is stupid. If you find someone stupid that would be a mere opinion. Nothing what you say has any logic in it.


Everyone has useful qualities. But since no one is perfect, people tend to make stupid decisions at some point in their life. It's also why I said it depends on how you define stupid. We are also asking for opinions here, my opinion is as I stated and yours is yours. Like Boserup or Malthus.

And what I say does have logic, regrettably what you say does to. It's a bit like two sides of the same coin; Neither opinions is really wrong depending on which perspective you see it from.


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## Sempiturtle (Jun 3, 2014)

TwinAnthos said:


> Everyone has useful qualities. But since no one is perfect, people tend to make stupid decisions at some point in their life. It's also why I said it depends on how you define stupid. We are also asking for opinions here, my opinion is as I stated and yours is yours. Like Boserup or Malthus.
> 
> And what I say does have logic, regrettably what you say does to. It's a bit like two sides of the same coin; Neither opinions is really wrong depending on which perspective you see it from.


Repeating the same as I said won't change anything. And I believe what I said is true. I wouldn't call people's decisions stupid. That would be the wrong word. I think you should call it Rash. People tend to make rash decisions.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

One of my ex boyfriends is an ENTJ who is blond as fuck. I once said to him, "A study showed that taking four cars off the road can completely get rid of gridlock traffic." He responded with, "And I bet I know exactly which four cars they are!" with total seriousness. He once used the phrase "I'm not racist, only my dick is." He bought a trailer home by maxing out his credit cards.

An ENTP friend in high school failed half his classes and tried to get into the top culinary school in the state, because he was good at making cheesecake. An INTP I once knew was somehow a total frat boy and kept his stubble long "because my cat likes to rub up against it," assuming that women were also like cats. Another INTP I know tries to pick up women by overtly asking for blowjobs; it's been a 0 success rate over about 3 years now but he hasn't given up on this method. And my INTJ mother once scolded me for suggesting that smoking weed can kill brain cells by responding with, "No it doesn't! You've been listening to those stupid DARE teachers haven't you!" She failed out of college three times and became a low-end database programmer who sits around preaching to people about left wing extremist propaganda, like Christianity being an evil conspiracy created by the government which turns people into mindless zombies. She apparently has a pretty high IQ though, so I guess if that's your only qualifier, there you go.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

I like to say that everyone is stupid. It is quite humbling.


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## The Exception (Oct 26, 2010)

I consider myself very stupid in many areas of life, yet people normally don't call me stupid because I happen to be smart in areas considered intellectual- such as those typically measured on an IQ test. 

I'm stupid when it comes to drawing- can't draw something and make it look realistic to save my life.
I'm stupid when it comes to mastering sports. 
I'm stupid when it comes to interpersonal communication. 
I'm stupid in areas of life I just don't care about.


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## Tetsuo Shima (Nov 24, 2014)

Some people call me a genius, and some people call me a retard. I don't know who to believe, so I just live in my own fantasy world where I'm the immortal dragon-angel god of spacetime paradoxes.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

The fact that people think this is a legit question, proves something. No Keirsey temperament, or any other, says anything about a person's intelligence. I swear Keirsey is responsible for this. He made all NT sound like intellectuals. It is total nonsense. They are no more intellectual than SJ or any other category.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

Sempiturtle said:


> @Noir I suppose your question has got people going.


Yeah, I think this is going to become horrible.

At least one thing became clear: most people skip the first post of the thread.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

FearAndTrembling said:


> The fact that people think this is a legit question, proves something. No Keirsey temperament, or any other, says anything about a person's intelligence. I swear Keirsey is responsible for this. He made all NT sound like intellectuals. It is total nonsense. They are no more intellectual than SJ or any other category.


Again, there have been attempts to connect it to intelligence and IQ.



> Openness to Ideas: Myers-Briggs Intuition & IQ
> 
> Openness to ideas is associated with regular intellectual engagement and perceived intelligence. It is strongly correlated with the scales of Typical Intellectual Engagement (.77) and Need for Cognition (.78), both of which are positively associated with IQ. With regard to the Myers-Briggs, Openness to Ideas is most strongly correlated with Intuition (.56). This should not surprise us, since a preference for Intuition is associated with abstract ideation and positively correlates with IQ, SAT scores, and educational achievement.
> 
> One of the more interesting features of Openness to Ideas is its association with both verbal/crystallized and nonverbal/fluid intelligence. With the exception of Values, all the other Openness facets correlate mainly with verbal intelligence. Hence, some individuals with mathematical, spatial, or other forms of nonverbal intelligence (often T types) may score relatively high on Openness to Ideas, while scoring lower on measures of Aesthetics, Feelings, and Fantasy. These differences may also surface in their Holland career interests, with NTs scoring higher in Investigative interests and NFs in Artistic interests.


This is also a study I quickly found on the internet regarding Jung's personality types.

On a side note, next time could you please read the first post?


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## pernoctator (May 1, 2012)

ScarlettHayden said:


> Philosophy is not really book smartness. Which is what schools test for.


Actually, on the book smart / street smart scale, philosophy would fall on the book smart side. Schools test for neither.




Sempiturtle said:


> I wouldn't call people's decisions stupid. That would be the wrong word. I think you should call it Rash. People tend to make rash decisions.


Momma says stupid is as stupid does.




Noir said:


> At least one thing became clear: most people skip the first post of the thread.


1. I quoted and replied directly to the content of your first post, and _you_ skipped that reply.

2. You edited the first post halfway through the discussion. Most people who replied after your edit were those who were already involved in the discussion, and had no reason to return to the first post.

3. Your edit was a copy-paste from one of your replies in the thread, which did receive responses when you posted it.

4. The reply mentioned in (1) remains equally valid and relevant after the edit to the first post, as do many of the other replies you received.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

@pernoctator



> 1. I quoted and replied directly to the content of your first post, and you skipped that reply.





> I don't think I'm missing the point; the problem is you're being inconsistent. Your questions are incompatible with your supposed belief that no type is superior to another.


The fact that I did not quote you doesn't mean I skipped it. Besides, I have no obligation to answer every reply. 
To be honest, I didn't really want to continue conversing with you as I felt nothing good can come out of it.

At any rate, I'll answer you now: no type is superior to another, but NT's might have a higher *average* IQ, or not. This is what I was trying to figure out, though unfortunately I made a poor choice of words. I realized this was what I wanted to ask half-way through. 



> 2. You edited the first post halfway through the discussion. Most people who replied after your edit were those who were already involved in the discussion, and had no reason to return to the first post.


You are right. However, I was not referring to those people. 



> The fact that people think this is a legit question, proves something. No Keirsey temperament, or any other, says anything about a person's intelligence. I swear Keirsey is responsible for this. He made all NT sound like intellectuals. It is total nonsense. They are no more intellectual than SJ or any other category.





> 3. Your edit was a copy-paste from one of your replies in the thread, which did receive responses when you posted it.


I agree.



> 4. The reply mentioned in (1) remains equally valid and relevant after the edit to the first post, as do many of the other replies you received.


Somewhere in between. While I do agree with the first part, few replies have actually answered my question. This is because I was inconsistent. I didn't realize exactly what I was trying to ask. What I was really wondering was if NT's truly have a higher average IQ than the rest.


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## pernoctator (May 1, 2012)

Noir said:


> The fact that I did not quote you doesn't mean I skipped it. Besides, I have no obligation to answer every reply.
> To be honest, I didn't really want to continue conversing with you as I felt nothing good can come out of it.


It sounds like you think I'm offended by the simple fact that you skipped my post. This isn't the case. I mentioned this only in response to your statement that most people were skipping _your_ first post. It was to call out your hypocrisy and presumptuousness. We can easily turn these statements around to show that you had no right to complain in the first place:

- The fact that people did not quote your OP does not mean they didn't read it.
- Nobody has any obligation to reply to your OP in its entirety.
- Perhaps they thought that nothing good could come of doing so.




Noir said:


> While I do agree with the first part, few replies have actually answered my question. This is because I was inconsistent. I didn't realize exactly what I was trying to ask. What I was really wondering was if NT's truly have a higher average IQ than the rest.


_On two occasions I have been asked, "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question._

You can't blame people for not answering your question if you haven't asked it. Even after your edit, you are still not asking "do NTs have a higher average IQ". You are asking if there are any with a low IQ, and the implied question is whether it is _possible_ for one to be an NT with low IQ. Again, the responses you already have received are relevant to this question.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Noir said:


> Before I get some angry replies, let me clear something. I do not mean to say that NT's have the master intelligence or that the other types are stupid. I have an ISTP friend that is smarter than me. An ENFP girl from my high-school had much better grades than me and so on.
> 
> I rephrase my question: *are there any low IQ NT's? *
> 
> ...



IQ tests test for what iNtuition is good at (and to some extend Thinking as well). So naturally you will find a correlation.

But stupidity isn't a reverse function of IQ. You can be very smart in one field and a complete moron in another. Your IQ does not guarantee anything, either way.

IQ is one simple thing: The ability to make predictions. Which is directly related to iNtuition. Just look at what IQ test questions: Here are 3 numbers, what's the next number,.. here are 3 pictures, what's the next picture, etc. etc. It's all about prediction.

And prediction is about association. associating past events with current and future events.

In fact, your whole brain does this, regardless of type.

When you are walking and you step on a little stone, you will notice it right a way. How does the brain do this? If we would program a computer, we would have a sensor that would register everything the foot feels and then analyze the incoming information constantly. This is way too much work and our brains don't do this. This is the most unefficient way of dealing with that little stone.

Instead, our brains make predictions about what our feet are suppose to feel with every step we take. A certain surface is suppose to feel a certain way. We know this by experience so it's quite easy to make this prediction without having to do massive computations. It just comes from memory. And our brains simply compare the incoming data with the predictions and as long as they´re the same, our brains don't have to do much.

When we step on a little stone, the brain registers a huge difference between the prediction and the actual incoming data and right away your attention is focused on what you´re feeling. This process happens all the time and all brain types do this.

Now you can imagine that some people are much more sensitive than others and will notice much smaller stones than most people will. This is not sensitivity of the feet. It's sensitivity of the brain. The brains ability to make better predictions. But in this case this is based on sensory data.

This prediction process happens in all areas. For example, if you try to find a bathroom in a restaurant, you naturally go look in the back and not next to the entrance.

There are many types of predictions your brain can make. The walking example is one type but should be extended to all kinds of sensory input predictions like expecting a chair to hold your weight and not be willing to sit on a chair if it looks too fragile. Situational examples like the bathroom being in the back of a restaurant. But also people examples, where F's tend to be more focused on predicting people's emotions and emotional responses to certain situations. All types do this, but some types are way better at this than others. If somebody is informed that his or her mother just died you'd be really surprised to see a smile on this person's face.


Back to IQ,.... IQ just tests for certain types of prediction. The conceptual predictions, the mathematical predictions, etc. They are presented in many forms, through text or visually, but most IQ tests really focus on concepts. I never saw an IQ test asking about what someone's face is suppose to look like after receiving certain informations. (These kinds of tests exist, but then they don't call it an IQ test anymore.)

So if you can't predict what somebody's face should look like after receiving certain information, you could be considered really stupid. IQ doesn't help you with this. (Ni can, if something like this is of interest, but still it's not a natural ability.)

And to answer your rephrased question: Yes, there are NT's with low IQ too. Just go work for a month in a factory in the department where job requirements don't include an education of any sort. You will find NT's there too. You can be sure they don't have high IQ's.


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## pernoctator (May 1, 2012)

Peter said:


> You can be sure they don't have high IQ's.


No you can't.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

pernoctator said:


> No you can't.


Perhaps I was reaching that conclusion a little too easy. 

It comes from experience. I have had vacation jobs in factories and from what I remember and what I know now about the MBTI and the cognitive functions, there were NT's there too. And they didn't have high IQ's. But they express similar behaviours and views as higher IQ NT's. It's just more simple and generally with a lot less general knowledge.

And if you do have a higher IQ, working within a group of people like that is fun the first week, amusing the second, and then it's just boring and you will want to get out. Also they tend to give you better jobs when you show you´re smarter than the rest. So it's a natural process that if you're smart enough, you don't work very long in a department like that.


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## Noir (Jun 20, 2014)

pernoctator said:


> It sounds like you think I'm offended by the simple fact that you skipped my post. This isn't the case. I mentioned this only in response to your statement that most people were skipping _your_ first post. It was to call out your hypocrisy and presumptuousness. We can easily turn these statements around to show that you had no right to complain in the first place:
> 
> - The fact that people did not quote your OP does not mean they didn't read it.
> - Nobody has any obligation to reply to your OP in its entirety.
> ...


Dude, do you even know what hypocrisy means?


> Hypocrisy is the claim or pretense of holding beliefs, feelings, standards, qualities, opinions, behaviors, virtues, motivations, or other characteristics that one does not in actual fact hold. In moral psychology, it is the failure to follow one’s own expressed moral rules and principles.


Also, this is something I've noticed in several threads, not only this one. Please refrain from making this kind of statements and be more polite. 



> Again, the responses you already have received are relevant to this question.





> I consider myself very stupid in many areas of life, yet people normally don't call me stupid because I happen to be smart in areas considered intellectual- such as those typically measured on an IQ test.
> 
> I'm stupid when it comes to drawing- can't draw something and make it look realistic to save my life.
> I'm stupid when it comes to mastering sports.
> ...





> Some people call me a genius, and some people call me a retard. I don't know who to believe, so I just live in my own fantasy world where I'm the immortal dragon-angel god of spacetime paradoxes.





> The fact that people think this is a legit question, proves something. No Keirsey temperament, or any other, says anything about a person's intelligence. I swear Keirsey is responsible for this. He made all NT sound like intellectuals. It is total nonsense. They are no more intellectual than SJ or any other category.


Please explain to me how exactly do these answer the question "are there any low IQ NT's?" 
On second thought, don't. 
@PC_admin @TreeBob @Thomas60

If possible, I'd like this thread to get closed as it's outlived it's welcome.


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## Sempiturtle (Jun 3, 2014)

I don't recall this thread being about IQ. Having a low iq does not make one stupid.


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## Tetsuo Shima (Nov 24, 2014)

pernoctator said:


> Actually, on the book smart / street smart scale, philosophy would fall on the book smart side. Schools test for neither.


The only thing schools test for is obedience, and that is why I hate school.


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## pernoctator (May 1, 2012)

Noir said:


> Dude, do you even know what hypocrisy means?


Yes, and apparently so do you... so I legitimately don't understand how you don't recognize it in yourself where I pointed it out.




> Please refrain from making this kind of statements





> On second thought, don't.





> I'd like this thread to get closed as it's outlived it's welcome.


Wow. Control issues? You don't get to shut everyone down just because you didn't get the resounding agreement you wanted. Everyone else seems to be having a civil discussion here.




> Please explain to me how exactly do these answer the question "are there any low IQ NT's?"


First, I said many, not all, of the responses are relevant.

Before I continue, is this question _actually_ the one you are now asking? Because according to your previous post, it isn't.


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