# Problems with University



## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

I'm just going to vent about my former education course for a minute.

I was formerly working towards becoming a teacher. I was going the elementary route, so I didn't have to move to a larger city to pursue my education (which would have been far more expensive).
Unlike many of the other students in the practicum, I don't live with my parents, nor receive much funding from them (In fact, one of them owes *me* money, but I'm not getting into that again).
All of the money I earn, is from myself.

With that being said, the course is not very suitable to students who aren't as "well off" as some of the others.
For starters, there is a month long practicum which involves me teaching classes, and helping the teacher in various other objectives.
In most other places, your schedule is dictated between you and the instructor you are working with. That way, if you have other obligations (such as work), you can work around them.

Not in *this* course however. Here, it is full time Monday-Friday, and 8-10 hours a day. You are also expected to spend your weekends lesson planning and marking assignments.

Of course, this presented a problem. I have bills and groceries I have to pay for.
I asked my professor if I can somehow adjust those hours so I can still work to pay bills and pay for my next semester, her response was a simple no.
She told me that I had to start acting *professionally*, and from this point on, I am considered a teacher.

When I told her about my job and how I was supposed to work around a schedule like that, she responded that I should ask my boss for a *whole* *month* off.
Not going to happen.

Of course, when I asked her that if I would be getting paid for that amount of time, since *I am* considered a "teacher" by her standards; her response was no.

So I asked if there was a way I could split up the courses so I could make each semester cheaper (And therefore, not have to work as much so I can focus on fulfilling the requirements the university is asking of me).
At this point, I'm doing my best to work with her.
Can you guess what her answer was? *Nope*. The course was _designed_ in a way so you had no choice but to take all of the courses at once.
Of course, she then recommended student loans. But I've lasted this long paying for my own education. Drowning in student debt should not be the only option.

That wasn't all. When I was still in the course, the class would throw all of these "activities" that required me to go outside of town to complete, some of these would be as far as 100km away. They would give little to no warning whenever these would come up, so it became extremely difficult to give my boss enough warning for him to cover my shifts.
Of course, now I'm missing even more hours at work.
I also don't have a vehicle, I only have a bike to get around town to my job to cut costs. So them asking me to get to a town 100km away for little to no reason, makes me annoyed to say the least.

They would also be for stupid things, such as "team-building exercises". Why couldn't we just do this on-campus? If there was conference I had to attend, I would understand.
But I don't see the justification in me wasting my time to just participate in "activities", much less asking me to travel long distances for them.
Also, why am I paying $10,000 this school year just to learn about working with others? That's pretty much common sense, and schools have already been teaching students that for their entire educational careers.

Look, I'm not looking to be treated like a kid. But the university is going to leave out students who would do the job perfectly fine, but end up being casted out because of the, frankly, *stupid* barriers to entry that are placed on us.

I eventually had enough and left the course. If I'm going to become a teacher, it is not going to be because of me bending my knee and drowning in student debt.
If nothing else, I'll just work towards becoming a professor. Then, at least I can do things my way.


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## 543452 (Mar 15, 2015)

And all of this just to teach elementary students?!? It's like if you weren't set up with conveniences in the beginning, then you'd be screwed with having to deal with loans and debts. Then again, that's college in a nutshell. And that's not even considering the stupid conditions that the curriculum forces upon people. If it was that difficult trying to become a teacher for elementary students, then isn't it going to be even more difficult becoming a professor?


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

Pessimissing said:


> And all of this just to teach elementary students?!? It's like if you weren't set up with conveniences in the beginning, then you'd be screwed with having to deal with loans and debts. Then again, that's college in a nutshell. And that's not even considering the stupid conditions that the curriculum forces upon people. If it was that difficult trying to become a teacher for elementary students, then isn't it going to be even more difficult becoming a professor?


I’m just hoping that I can take the courses at my own pace, that way I can still work to pay for expenses.
I’m sure it’ll be more difficult to become a professor, but I’m just hoping the process will be more flexible and skill-oriented.

I think I have to do more research, but I’m hoping that will be the case.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

I’m wondering if you can find the equivalent course somewhere more flexible and transfer the credits in? I remember having to do similar things in university but I can’t remember how it mattered from a credits standpoint. Super frustrating, especially when they aren’t being frustrated and you are working so hard.


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## 543452 (Mar 15, 2015)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I’m just hoping that I can take the courses at my own pace, that way I can still work to pay for expenses.
> I’m sure it’ll be more difficult to become a professor, but I’m just hoping the process will be more flexible and skill-oriented.
> 
> I think I have to do more research, but I’m hoping that will be the case.


INTJs don't go down easy, so I'm 100% sure you're going to become an educator no matter the means. I'm pretty sure I'm preaching to the choir here given that INTJs care more about how systems work than INFJs, but be careful about those bear traps. For a hefty sum, the hunters will free you, but they will never care about the scars you've gained.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

littlewyng said:


> I’m wondering if you can find the equivalent course somewhere more flexible and transfer the credits in? I remember having to do similar things in university but I can’t remember how it mattered from a credits standpoint. Super frustrating, especially when they aren’t being frustrated and you are working so hard.


That is good advice.
However, the whole experience sort of let me know that maybe I'm not suited to teaching children after all.
There was this whole introduction section we have to do, and everyone else included that they "were there because they were excited to teach kids".
I never felt that same excitement. I'm more interested in the teaching material itself. 

Don't get me wrong. In past practicums, I always got exceedingly high marks, but my least favorite part was actually instructing the students.
I'm just good at it because most of it is common sense. It is not because I get any enjoyment out of it. 

If I were to teach, it would probably be in high school or higher.
I like the idea of being a professor, because then you can master and become an expert in one subject. It is mostly research oriented, while teaching is just a part of a contract.


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

One thing that has worked for me, and others probably will have input as well, is teaching within your industry field- so you can hone your technical skills and work on being very good in that area, but then have the opportunity to teach others, and be a resource for them. For me though I have to be in an interesting field that changes a lot so I have things to research and learn at the same time I'm teaching others. Not sure if that's helpful, more of a hindsight observation.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

littlewyng said:


> One thing that has worked for me, and others probably will have input as well, is teaching within your industry field- so you can hone your technical skills and work on being very good in that area, but then have the opportunity to teach others, and be a resource for them. For me though I have to be in an interesting field that changes a lot so I have things to research and learn at the same time I'm teaching others. Not sure if that's helpful, more of a hindsight observation.


I was thinking of mainly getting into either history, literature, political science or economics. 
I think there is probably more demand for economics instructors, so maybe I might pursue that at first (even though it is my weakest subject on that list). 

Most of my knowledge on that course is self-taught though, so I might have to brush on that knowledge first lol


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I'm just going to vent about my former education course for a minute.
> 
> I was formerly working towards becoming a teacher. I was going the elementary route, so I didn't have to move to a larger city to pursue my education (which would have been far more expensive).
> Unlike many of the other students in the practicum, I don't live with my parents, nor receive much funding from them (In fact, one of them owes *me* money, but I'm not getting into that again).
> ...


Well, as someone who trained to be a teacher only to leave the field after 2 years, I'm not sure what to tell you. I did drown in debt, despite having the GI BIll to help cover costs and I worked part time, however, my practicum was actually subsidized and my college had a van that took us to and from on the days we had to go out and actually work with the teacher in the classroom. It was my student teaching that presented the biggest problem because it was a whole semester of teaching classes under the supervision of a cooperating teacher. I was assigned to a school that was 25 miles away from my college and I had to get there on my own. About halfway through, my car died a self-inflicted death because I put too much oil in it (don't ask, I was in a bad place head wise). I had to beg, borrow, and steal, rides to and from for the rest of the year and it was plain torture. Fortunately, there were several other student teachers from my college teaching at the same school and I was able to rotate with them so they each took a day (one of them did two) and I slipped them some gas money. It still sucked. I managed to pass, get my degree, and I still have a valid teaching license to this day, but like I said, it turned out I really didn't have the temperament for the trade. There was no way I would have made it 30 years in that profession with my sanity intact. It wasn't the kids. I got them. It was the parents and the administrators. 

Anyway, as for your problem, it seems like the system is rigged to force you to go into debt, or find another profession. Trust me, there are plenty of good ones out there that don't require you to wind up playing politics and tip-toeing around entitled, over-protective parents and unsupportive administrators.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Well, as someone who trained to be a teacher only to leave the field after 2 years, I'm not sure what to tell you. I did drown in debt, despite having the GI BIll to help cover costs and I worked part time, however, my practicum was actually subsidized and my college had a van that took us to and from on the days we had to go out and actually work with the teacher in the classroom. It was my student teaching that presented the biggest problem because it was a whole semester of teaching classes under the supervision of a cooperating teacher. I was assigned to a school that was 25 miles away from my college and I had to get there on my own. About halfway through, my car died a self-inflicted death because I put too much oil in it (don't ask, I was in a bad place head wise). I had to beg, borrow, and steal, rides to and from for the rest of the year and it was plain torture. Fortunately, there were several other student teachers from my college teaching at the same school and I was able to rotate with them so they each took a day (one of them did two) and I slipped them some gas money. It still sucked. I managed to pass, get my degree, and I still have a valid teaching license to this day, but like I said, it turned out I really didn't have the temperament for the trade. There was no way I would have made it 30 years in that profession with my sanity intact. It wasn't the kids. I got them. It was the parents and the administrators.
> 
> Anyway, as for your problem, it seems like the system is rigged to force you to go into debt, or find another profession. Trust me, there are plenty of good ones out there that don't require you to wind up playing politics and tip-toeing around entitled, over-protective parents and unsupportive administrators.


Thanks for the advice.
I'll do a bit more research before committing to a specific field. I also might try to start writing professionally.
I understand that it is an equally competitive market to get into, but at least I would be in charge of myself. I would not have to be held accountable by some administrators. 

But I agree, it angered me that the only the solution the college provided for me was to drown in debt. The situation didn't sound fair to you either. 

Believe it or not, I was tempted on joining the Canadian Armed Forces last year for a stint in order to pay for my college education. I was talking with a recruiter and everything. 
I figured two things can happen. I make it through without a hitch, or I get blown up. I would just consider the latter early retirement. 
But I figured I wasn't about to let some university administrators get me killed, just so I can get a piece of paper. 

I wish those other students the best of luck, they seem they have the temperament to deal with the administrators and parents. 
I would probably not handle that aspect of it rather well. Which is a shame, because I generally don't mind the company of kids.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> I'll do a bit more research before committing to a specific field. I also might try to start writing professionally.
> I understand that it is an equally competitive market to get into, but at least I would be in charge of myself. I would not have to be held accountable by some administrators.
> 
> ...


Well, if you want to know how I skillfully lucked my way into manipulating the military bureaucracy into giving me a highly technical job on a non-combatant repair ship in the US Navy, I can tell you how I did it. 

As for teaching, what I learned was that _actual education_ only took up about 1/3 of my time. The other 2/3 was a mountain administrative paperwork that usually got into my box after lunch and had to be done by the end of the day.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Well, if you want to know how I skillfully lucked my way into manipulating the military bureaucracy into giving me a highly technical job on a non-combatant repair ship in the US Navy, I can tell you how I did it.
> 
> As for teaching, what I learned was that _actual education_ only took up about 1/3 of my time. The other 2/3 was a mountain administrative paperwork that usually got into my box after lunch and had to be done by the end of the day.


I'm curious to know how you did it lol
I guess if you know the system, you can benefit off of it, no matter what the system is.

As for the portion of actual education that didn't involve teaching, I assumed that would be the case.
I would have just poured a glass of whiskey, grit my teeth, and did the paperwork. As long as no administrators interfered with my job, I would bite the bullet.
I don't like bureaucracy very much though, in pretty much any form. So the more I learn about the actual education system, the less I actually agree with it.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I'm curious to know how you did it lol
> I guess if you know the system, you can benefit off of it, no matter what the system is.
> 
> As for the portion of actual education that didn't involve teaching, I assumed that would be the case.
> ...



Well, I got a contract for 6 years to be an Electronics Technician. I would qualify for a promotion out of boot camp and then another when I completed my technical school. The reason it was a 6 year program is because the school takes about a year to finish. I got my first promotion out of boot in San Diego, and had to go to Basic Electricity and Electronics School first. It was self-paced and my course required I complete 34 modules. I got it done in 5 months. Next was ET "A" School. For this I was able to go home for two weeks and then report to Great Lakes Illinois in January (north of Chicago in winter, BRRR!). I arrived at Great Lakes and checked into my school. First week of classes went fine and I passed the written test and a practical lab. Passed fine. I got to the second week and passed the written test, but I completely froze up on the practical lab. I couldn't find the fault to save my life. I have no idea why. I felt like I didn't get enough lab time to play with the various problems we would encounter. I don't think that was part of the course. So I was set back to the previous class. I signed up for and did extra study every day. What I really did was show up at extra study and fill out the sign-in sheet and leave. There was a little cafe right across from the extra study classroom and I just went there and played video games. I would come back after a few hours and sign back out of extra study. I did this for weeks. Well, I ran right into the same problem as the last time. I passed the written test with flying colors, but for some reason, I just didn't know what to do with the practical lab. I was failed out of the school and had to face a review board. Normally, if you "rock out" they just send you to the fleet without a designation, and you're basically a deck ape for the rest of your time in, but not me.
The review board noted that I had so many hours of extra study that they offered me a reclassification into another job. The choices I was given were: Machinist Mate, Gunners Mate, or Instrumentman.

Machinist Mates work in the "hole" the deep dark parts of the ship where the boilers and engines are. It's hot, dark, loud, and dirty work. Every ship has them.

Gunners Mates maintain the weapons on a ship, whether they are small arms, mounted machine guns, cannons, or missile launchers. Pretty much every ship has them.

Instrumentmen are electromechanical calibration technicians responsible for insuring accuracy of measurement equipment from pressure gauges, torque wrenches, tachometers, micrometers, temperature equipment, watches, clocks, and typewriters. This rating only goes to two types of ships: Submarine Tenders and Destroyer Tenders, both of which are classified as auxiliary ships (non-combattant) and are considered "floating hardware stores," that do not spend their deployments out to sea, they generally park in a port and other ships come alongside to get fixed and go back out. Due to strict requirements for proper calibration, their labs have to be climate controlled and monitored for optimal accuracy. They also had women on them at a time when women didn't get to serve on all types of ships.

Well you may begin to see which one quickly stood out to my 18 year-old brain. I choose Instrumentman "A" school and, after a brief period where I worked in the base post office, I was sent to my new school. The first two weeks of classes were basics on the physics of machines, gears, levers, etc. Then the next 2 weeks was....Basic Electricity and Electronics...a class I had already taken 34 modules of. I practically snoozed through that part of the course. Then the rest of the school was all self paced. We studied the concepts in individual carrels and when we completed all the work, we went and took tests on it. Then when we passed the tests, we had to do some sort of practical lab and pass that before the whole thing started all over again. So I arrived in Great Lakes in January. I failed out of ET "A" school by March. I started IM "A" School in April. I graduated with a 91% in August. I got orders to report to the newest destroyer tender in the fleet, USS Shenandoah, AD-44.

A destroyer tender repairs surface ships. I was in the military in a job that required me to go to work at either a shore facility, or a non-combat ship. These ships are usually well protected and kept far away from any battle. Once and a while, I would have to carry an unloaded .45 pistol with the magazines on my belt (I needed an order to lock and load). If you have to go into the military, but really don't like the notion of shooting someone, being shot at, or getting blown up, this is pretty much the way to go.









USS Shenandoah, AD-44 Destroyer Tender, 5th ship to bear the name. Commissioned: 1984 Decommissioned: 1996. She was a victim of the Post-Cold War draw down of the 1990s


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Well, I got a contract for 6 years to be an Electronics Technician. I would qualify for a promotion out of boot camp and then another when I completed my technical school. The reason it was a 6 year program is because the school takes about a year to finish. I got my first promotion out of boot in San Diego, and had to go to Basic Electricity and Electronics School first. It was self-paced and my course required I complete 34 modules. I got it done in 5 months. Next was ET "A" School. For this I was able to go home for two weeks and then report to Great Lakes Illinois in January (north of Chicago in winter, BRRR!). I arrived at Great Lakes and checked into my school. First week of classes went fine and I passed the written test and a practical lab. Passed fine. I got to the second week and passed the written test, but I completely froze up on the practical lab. I couldn't find the fault to save my life. I have no idea why. I felt like I didn't get enough lab time to play with the various problems we would encounter. I don't think that was part of the course. So I was set back to the previous class. I signed up for and did extra study every day. What I really did was show up at extra study and fill out the sign-in sheet and leave. There was a little cafe right across from the extra study classroom and I just went there and played video games. I would come back after a few hours and sign back out of extra study. I did this for weeks. Well, I ran right into the same problem as the last time. I passed the written test with flying colors, but for some reason, I just didn't know what to do with the practical lab. I was failed out of the school and had to face a review board. Normally, if you "rock out" they just send you to the fleet without a designation, and you're basically a deck ape for the rest of your time in, but not me.
> The review board noted that I had so many hours of extra study that they offered me a reclassification into another job. The choices I was given were: Machinist Mate, Gunners Mate, or Instrumentman.
> 
> Machinist Mates work in the "hole" the deep dark parts of the ship where the boilers and engines are. It's hot, dark, loud, and dirty work. Every ship has them.
> ...


I should like to say that I was a kid when I served in the Navy. I wasn't the worst sailor, but I wasn't the best either. I had a lot of growing up to do. The Navy helped a lot, but I'm still a work in progress. I am proud to have served. I earned an honorable discharge, and I am not sorry that I navigated the system the way I did. It was an example of my desire to always try for a "win-win" scenario wherever possible. I don't think I have anything to be ashamed of, really, although, my signing into extra study and leaving was juvenile, I was just barely 18, and I made the best of the situation I found myself in at the time. I would have taken it more seriously now that I'm older, and there's every possibility I would have become an ET instead of an IM and had a totally different Navy experience. Be this as it may, every rating competes with everyone in that rating for promotions. You have to qualify, take a series of exams, and then have the right amount of points. ET was highly competitive because everyone who graduated from their A school got E-4 automatically (called a "push button" Petty Officer). IM was far less competitive. I got promoted every time I was eligible, so that worked out better for me in the long run.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

I respect your honesty @tanstaafl28 , and I liked hearing your story; it provided me with a different perspective. 
I think it is perfectly fine to work a system to your advantage. I agree with you that shouldn't feel sorry for doing so.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

@tanstaafl28
I know when I wanted to join the Canadian Armed Forces, the recruiter I spoke with probably sensed my hesitation.
He seemed to be a lot more honest than some of the other recruiters I've heard about, I guess he wanted to make sure I possessed the will to actually go through with it.
He told me that I should do more research, try some practice tests to determine what my likely options were, and to find a "real" reason to go.

So I followed his advice. I did quite a few practice CFAT tests, and scored very high on most of them (to my surprise). 
So assuming that I achieve relatively the same score on the actual CFAT, I would have quite a few options at my disposal.
At the time, I worked primarily outside and in the elements as a shop hand. So I was pretty comfortable with the idea of working outside, so I wanted to join the infantry branch.

As for my reasons for going, that is a little more unclear. I think it was a mix of a few things.
Firstly, I needed a way to pay for my college education. I lived by myself, was going to college on the side, and most of my scholarship money went to my father. So I was bit out of options.
Secondly, I was angry. I felt like I needed to prove myself.

I figured joining the Canadian Armed Forces was a way of dealing with those two problems at once. Sure, it was probably against my nature, and I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't enjoy myself. But it would only be for a few years.
If I could get past those few years, then most of my problems would be solved. At least, that's the way I figured it.

But as time went on, I started to cool down a bit.
I figured there were a lot better things that I could focus my time on, and I could leave the military to those who are more capable.


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