# Intimacy Issues in Survivors of Sexual Abuse



## HollyGolightly (Aug 8, 2009)

I found this article and it made me smile. I thought I'd post it on here to give other people smiles who are in the same situation 


Like the proverbial elephant in the living room, partner intimacy issues with a sexual abuse survivor can require a lot of time and space. Fortunately, in the end, with hard work and dedication, a beautiful relationship can be the result!

When you have been sexually abused, intimacy is usually foreign to you and partner intimacy issues will probably erupt if and when you decide to proceed into a relationship.

You obviously can live alone, with your cats, and avoid intimacy issues altogether. That certainly is a choice, but can be a lonely one with no self growth involved. You also might never have the opportunity to feel the company of a warm and loving partner. However, people are meant to be social and you just might find yourself talking to yourself, talking to your cats, and answering yourself back! Well, if that happens, you need to run, not walk, to the nearest therapist!

Your abuser stole your ability to develop intimacy away from you when he or she betrayed your trust. You have to regain trust in order to develop intimacy. Scary, yes, but definitely possible!

The key to the development of a long lasting healthy intimate relationship is *time.* Time for the trust to build. Your partner needs to be a patient soul.
Sometimes that may be difficult to find, but believe me, there are good people out there, so don't give up yet!

You are worth loving and cherishing! Someone will see that, but you have to see it in yourself first!

If you are in a relationship, it is good for your partner to know the following things:

Intimacy issues include you too!! It takes two people to make a relationship.

You need to give the sexual abuse survivor time to trust you. Just because you have not given her any reason not to trust you doesn't mean that she will automatically trust you! No, it is not fair! Yes, you are getting the brundt of her fears from her abuse.

It truly is not personal. I know that is difficult and you may not like or understand it..but it is what it is. You care about your partner. She is lucky for that. You both have something strong to build on. Bless you for caring!

Allow your partner as much control in the relationship as possible. Make it a 50/50 partnership. Open communication is essential!
Talk about everything. Don't *assume* anything! You have NO IDEA what eachother is thinking! Neither of you are mind readers. If you were, you would make a ton of money and you could both quit your jobs!

Abandonment can be a huge issue! Make sure you call her if you are going to be late, no excuses! Don't spend large amounts of time on the computer, reading, watching TV, without her etc., get my point? She may perceive this as abandonment.


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## Psilo (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for posting this. It's good advice. 

It takes a very kind and patient soul to pull one out of that deep of trust and intimacy issues. I feel I was lucky to find that. I'm not one hundred percent yet, but I'm well on my way to healing in a way impossible alone. I guess I want to give hope to anyone who is still in that zone, for what it's worth. It may seem hopeless, and easier to go on alone. If you do, though, you're abuser is still controlling you. That part of you is still missing. I don't know yet if abuse ever leaves you, but I know now it doesn't have to own you. 

I don't really know what to add. Anything I think of to say feels too light. It's a problem time can soften and love can heal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I didn't know the abandonment issues were related to that, but I guess it makes sense. I worry that I will push my boyfriend away by being insecure. I fear that he will give up on me if I take too long to trust him fully. I end up worrying over every little thing. The slightest sign that he is not perfectly supportive causes me to panic. This creates tension in the relationship because he can't possibly be perfect. He will say the wrong things sometimes no matter how much he cares. 

I hate seeming as needy as I actually am, because the act of fearing being needy actually increases my need. I feel like a burden, and then I need to be comforted not only for the original feeling, but for the insecurity that comes from needing comfort.

I also tend to give up more quickly than I would have otherwise, going straight to hopelessness at every sign of danger.

Here is an excerpt from an email I sent my boyfriend:



> What bothers me is that instead of visualizing resolution with you as my initial comforting thought, my mind went immediately to the idea of substitution, indicating a general lack of hope that any relationship conflict can ever be effectively resolved.
> 
> This is an unhealthy thought pattern I got into near the end of my last relationship, because I spent so many years with the false hope that my ex would change. I eventually gave up and moved on, recognizing that he would never become the more tolerable version of himself that I fantasized about, and I began thinking about someone else who actually could respect me and provide the comfort I so desperately needed.
> 
> ...


As for the sexual aspects of the relationship, I am fortunate to have found someone who has no intention of rushing me into anything. He intends to keep the relationship non-sexual for as long as I need. He has also agreed to respect my boundaries and to stop all intimate contact, including rough snuggling, at the first evidence that it is harmful to me. I don't think there will be a problem, because he has already shown that he can do this. I became uncomfortable during play-wrestling when he visited, and he stopped immediately at the first clear sign of distress. 

I feel sorry for him, for having to deal with the consequences of someone else's actions against me. He should not have to suffer for something he had no control over. I have a lot of shame over being this damaged, and I worry a lot that he will eventually grow tired of putting up with my insanity. I worry that I will eventually be replaced by someone less damaged who won't require so much patience and effort.


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## TurranMC (Sep 15, 2009)

I respect all of you for going through what you went through and still being the great people that you are now. I think you guys really need to take this line to heart:


> You are worth loving and cherishing! Someone will see that, but you have to see it in yourself first!


Everyone here thinks you're awesome, you just need to see that in yourself too


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## HollyGolightly (Aug 8, 2009)

Snail I feel the same way 
So sometimes I pretend to be someone else, especially during intimacy. Because I feel that if I let on how afraid I am of being touched I will be left for someone more "normal"
All I want is to be normal
And all I want is to be loved.

I know this thought process is illogical btw.
Because if I was datingsomebody who had intimacy issues, I;d be fine with it and committed to helping them get through it.
If someone can't give me the same respect and support that I am so willing to give then they are not worth my time and tears.

But I do wish I didn't have this problem.


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## TurranMC (Sep 15, 2009)

HollyGolightly said:


> Snail I feel the same way
> So sometimes I pretend to be someone else, especially during intimacy. Because I feel that if I let on how afraid I am of being touched I will be left for someone more "normal"
> All I want is to be normal
> And all I want is to be loved.
> ...


The only illogical part of what you said is that you're afraid of being left alone. If someone leaves you because of the problems you have with intimacy you don't want to be with that person anyway. Everyone has their problems, don't worry about it!


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## HollyGolightly (Aug 8, 2009)

TurranMC said:


> The only illogical part of what you said is that you're afraid of being left alone. If someone leaves you because of the problems you have with intimacy you don't want to be with that person anyway. Everyone has their problems, don't worry about it!



I luff you fannyface.....sometimes :wink:


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## Phoenix400 (Sep 19, 2009)

I've got a question. I've had friends in the past who suffered from abuse and this has become a topic of interest for me so that I may know how to handle it properly if I come across someone else who has suffered from this.

My Question relating to the OP: On the part about a 50/50 partnership, would it not be better to give the partner who was abused more control and do your best to give them positive encouragement? 

I would think that anything you could do to empower and encourage someone (physically, mentally, and emotionally) who's been through this would be a good thing. It would also help show that you trust them by letting them take the reigns and encourage trust in return. The only problem I can see is if the person's self-esteem is so damaged it actually causes them MORE stress by trying to take the lead. However, I can see that being overcome with lots of encouragement, positive reinforcement, and by starting out with small matters and working it up.

Also, I feel I can understand the intimacy and trust issues well enough, but is there not also a fear of being powerless, or being overpowered by someone close to you? I think this may be true especially for a woman who is with a man who is physically stronger. A reaction that comes forth when physical intimacy comes into play perhaps?

I'm I off track with any of this? Anyone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or expand on the topic for a better understanding.

I have a theory I'm developing on one way of overcoming physical intimacy issues in the bedroom with someone who has been abused. I've never openly discussed it before and its a little off the beaten path, as far as I know anyway. It delves a little deep into sexuality, though, and I'm not sure if I should post it here for fear of making people uncomfortable.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I'd be curious about your experimental ideas. If you don't want to post them here, please PM me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phoenix400 (Sep 19, 2009)

snail said:


> I'd be curious about your experimental ideas. If you don't want to post them here, please PM me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Alright, I'm going to post this here to get others' views. I kind of want to get this one out in the open so I can refine it and get more perspective, or scratch it if I'm completely off the mark. First, keep in mind that I'm approaching this from the angle of a woman who's developed a fear of being physically overpowered by her partner. Second, this is getting into kind of kinky territory, but please stay with it until the end. If this seems like something worth trying, make sure its discussed thoroughly with the partner. NO surprises.

The basis for my theory has to do with giving the woman a firm sense of empowerment by means of removing the man's power. I'm thinking some light bondage could be of some help. I know, I know, stay with me though. What you do is remove his physical power by taking away his ability to move, leaving you in total control.

First, get some handcuffs, not the pink fluffy kind, REAL honest to goodness, "this is what the cops use" handcuffs and cuff him to the head of the bed. Make sure he doesn't have enough slack to move his arms around much. Cuff him with his hands over his head so that he can't place his arms around you in a hold. 

Second, more cuffs or leather straps to tie his legs down to the footboard. Again, sturdy bindings that make him unable to move. This would keep him from wrapping legs around the woman or moving himself up far enough that he can use his arms.

Basically, he is bound in spread eagle position. It can start out with him clothed or unclothed depending on the partners' level of comfort with each other. The point is to have him secured so that he would have to break the bed frame to even try to get to free, also gives time to get away if he tries to do that. In my mind this would promote a feeling of safety in the woman by removing any physical threat.

This should in theory give the woman power. It places her in complete control. She can touch as much or as little as she wants and he can't touch back. She can do whatever she wants. He has to ask for anything he wants and the woman is in full power to deny it. It also shows a level of trust that the man is giving by allowing himself to give her that control. She could leave him tied to the bed and go out for the night for all he knows and the woman could very well do that. You could even enhance that a bit by adding things around the bed like a whip, hot candle, blindfold. He'll be left wondering "Is she going to use any of those on me?". It also doesn't have to progress further than what the woman is comfortable with. One session could go with both partners remaining fully clothed the entire time, again depending on the level of intimacy already established.

What it all comes down to is HE has to trust YOU not to hurt HIM. The woman is the Dom. The man is the Sub.

There, that's the basics of it. In my mind this could lead to better building of trust and physical intimacy over time.

Comments? Concerns? Complaints?

Gosh, that was kinda embarrassing.


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## TurranMC (Sep 15, 2009)

Phoenix400 said:


> I've got a question. I've had friends in the past who suffered from abuse and this has become a topic of interest for me so that I may know how to handle it properly if I come across someone else who has suffered from this.
> 
> My Question relating to the OP: On the part about a 50/50 partnership, would it not be better to give the partner who was abused more control and do your best to give them positive encouragement?
> 
> ...


I think above all else it is important that the survivor of abuse has full control over all intimacy. Even if she does not want to have full control she needs only tell him, but even then its simply another layer of control. The partner has to understand that everything has to be done at the survivor's pace, whatever pace that may be. She has to be eased into all intimacy.


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## Phoenix400 (Sep 19, 2009)

TurranMC said:


> I think above all else it is important that the survivor of abuse has full control over all intimacy. Even if she does not want to have full control she needs only tell him, but even then its simply another layer of control. The partner has to understand that everything has to be done at the survivor's pace, whatever pace that may be. She has to be eased into all intimacy.


Actually, I wasn't just referring to matters of intimacy in the relationship. I was talking about day-to-day decision making as well. Trust and intimacy doesn't come just in the bedroom. It builds from all areas of a relationship. Letting the partner take more control in everyday tasks and showing that you trust them and support their decisions. I think it would help them build up confidence and self-esteem within themselves.


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## HollyGolightly (Aug 8, 2009)

There's sort of a problem there though when you give the abused partner full control, well there is more me anyways.
I am given full control, which usually means I have to instigate intimacy. Sounds ridiculous but I'm too afraid to make the first move, even something as simple as a hug. It's the thoughts that are more frightening that the acts. I need my partner to take charge also as if I am left with total control it appears that I don't want to be touched at all. This makes my partner avoid touching me, and that makes me feel useless and unloved. This probably makes no sense but that;s they way I feel so I think that's why the article said that both partners need 50/50 control.

*Phoenix400: *I agree with you. 


> Trust and intimacy doesn't come just in the bedroom. It builds from all areas of a relationship. Letting the partner take more control in everyday tasks and showing that you trust them and support their decisions. I think it would help them build up confidence and self-esteem within themselves.


And *TurranMC *I can't believe that you have such a depth of understanding. I haven't met many people, especially guys of your age, that are so understanding about this topic.


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## TurranMC (Sep 15, 2009)

HollyGolightly said:


> There's sort of a problem there though when you give the abused partner full control, well there is more me anyways.
> I am given full control, which usually means I have to instigate intimacy. Sounds ridiculous but I'm too afraid to make the first move, even something as simple as a hug. It's the thoughts that are more frightening that the acts. I need my partner to take charge also as if I am left with total control it appears that I don't want to be touched at all. This makes my partner avoid touching me, and that makes me feel useless and unloved. This probably makes no sense but that;s they way I feel so I think that's why the article said that both partners need 50/50 control.
> 
> *Phoenix400: *I agree with you.


Well again its really the survivor of abuse that needs to be in full control. The partner needs to make a move sometimes, but he needs to just fully understand what she is comfortable with and when its ok. She needs to be in control of what is allowed I think. The most important part of the relationship is communication. They need to be able to talk about what she wants, what she is comfortable with, and what she isn't comfortable with. She has to be eased into everything and there is nothing wrong with that.

And I certainly agree its not just about the bedroom. In fact when I was making that post I wasn't even thinking about it in that context. Its also not just about two people dating, but all relationships. She just needs to be clear with what shes comfortable with and everyone else needs to respect that.


> And *TurranMC *I can't believe that you have such a depth of understanding. I haven't met many people, especially guys of your age, that are so understanding about this topic.


Thanks Bananface! I try hehe. I just try to put myself in other people's place in and see things from their perspective. I know if something like this happened and left this mark on me I know how I would want to be treated so I show the same respect to other people.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

HollyGolightly said:


> Snail I feel the same way
> So sometimes I pretend to be someone else, especially during intimacy. Because I feel that if I let on how afraid I am of being touched I will be left for someone more "normal"
> All I want is to be normal
> And all I want is to be loved.
> ...


You are not alone. I also have intimacy issues.


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## HollyGolightly (Aug 8, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> You are not alone. I also have intimacy issues.


You do?
Not a lot of guys admit to that. Wow. You're brave...and I would have never guessed that you felt the same.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

*hugs to all who struggle with intimacy-related issues*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

My issues have to do with violence. The person I touch most often is my brother. This is either when I am being beaten or f I am being forced to cuddle. I don't like being held a lot; I am on edge ready to be attacked.


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## InvisibleJim (Jun 30, 2009)

This is a very useful post for most members of the forum; many of us have trust issues/intimacy issues which leads to overly-unbalanced and unhealthy behaviour.


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## SNoel (Nov 2, 2009)

I'm new to this group, having found it today on search engine for "make intimacy issues for survivors of sexual abuse". I'm involved with a man finally told me he had sex when he was 13 with an older woman. When I asked how old, he said "35". Then, "oops, I've never told anyone that and i shouldn't have told you so I'm just to shut up about that now. " (We had had a bit too much scotch that night). Today, he's 51 and though we have been together over a year and he loves me, we're intimate in all ways but one. He won't have intercourse. Saying for him, it means a committment,so he's going to wait until he's ready. He calls me his friend and lover; rarely girlfriend because that means exclusive relationship - even tho we are... 
None of it made sense over the past year until his little slip the other night and today I read HOLLYGOLIGHTLYs article. 

With him, he lived with a girl for 5 yrs, then married her for 13, had two kids, she had her own issues and ultimately divorced him. The woman he married was cold, manipulative, publicly demeaned him, and blamed him for all the thingswrong in the family, including their autistic son. People that knew her called her a control freak. He told me she physcially abused him (hitting). He is seen as too nice and passive. She left him in financial ruin. He had to move out of state for his job or lose it -so now she's got full custody of their kids too.

So here I come - Ms. INFJ - I've had a lot of tragedy in my life but not sexual abuse. I'm divorced from an alcoholic after 20 yrs. It all makes sense.about him now... but i don't know where to start in order to help him climb out of this and heal. I've introduced the idea of counseling, and he's open to it, but there'd need to be a bit more workon my end logistically to make it happen. 

Sorry for the long story - it just seems like people here might be able to help us. He is such a good man..... I would be very grateful for any thoughts, links, references, that the group might care to share. Thanks

SNoel, INFJ, Libra Sun, Aquarius moon


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## HollyGolightly (Aug 8, 2009)

SNoel, have you showed him this article and discussed it with him? I don't know whether it would help ease him into intimacy and make him realise that there is nothing to be afraid of, but maybe it is worth a try?


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

SNoel said:


> He had sex when he was 13.


All I can say is: LUCKY!\
And yes, Holly, it is worth a try. I'm just being horny right now.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> All I can say is: LUCKY!\
> And yes, Holly, it is worth a try. I'm just being horny right now.



I don't know if you're being serious or not, but it mustn't have been very lucky for him as she was much older. It's no different to a 35 year old man having sex with a 13 year old girl.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Well, at least he got some.
I don't see how it could be damaging.


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## skycloud86 (Jul 15, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> Well, at least he got some.
> I don't see how it could be damaging.


It's probably just as damaging as if he was a 13 year old girl and she had been a 35 year old man.


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## HollyGolightly (Aug 8, 2009)

When you are that young you can't possibly know what you want. You might think sleeping with a 35 year old is all that but it's something one later regrets in life, as they realise that person actually took advantage of them and what went on was actually paedophilia. Once that is realised that can reallmy mess up someone's head.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> Well, at least he got some.
> I don't see how it could be damaging.


 It would have been extremely damaging to me if someone had taken advantage of my naivette when I was a child, and he apparently has other intimacy issues from being in a violent relationship with a control freak. I know what that's like, and even if there hadn't been any sexual issues, that alone could create a fear of intimacy, for reasons you probably relate to with your brother. Anyhow, not all males have this idea that the goal is to get laid as frequently as possible, but in your loneliness, I also understand why you would envy even harmful sexual encounters. In your mind, surely it is better than nothing at all. Perhaps that would be true for you, but it is not universal for people to feel that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SeekJess (Nov 1, 2009)

enlightening thread.. makes sense why i hate physical contact now..


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## Disciple (Nov 4, 2009)

This is a great post. 
It is sad how often this comes up in counceling, even sadder how often the person just goes on suffering.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

My husband was sexually molested by his uncle. This uncle died from a heroine overdose. As is usually the case in sexual abuse, the ripple effect continued creating another subsequent victim.

This is difficult to say, because he won't even tell his own family. He and his fellow victims have talked about it in a mature way now that they have grown up some and it is past, but I honestly don't know if the chain of effect has stopped for each of them.

When I stop to think about it, it never seemed to me like my husband had intimacy issues as far as sexual intimacy, unless they manifested when he was uncomfortable with me focusing on giving him pleasure, instead of letting him focus on giving me pleasure. He would want to withdraw when I would tell him it was my turn to make him feel good, though he would let me continue, he would start to cry, covering his face. He seemed to be dealing with a confusion of his mixed emotions- shame, enjoyment, resenting me for encouraging him to feel selfish, sadness that he should feel anything negative from physical pleasure, unworthiness as though he did not deserve to be happy or deserve someone wanting him to be happy and feel good, more confusion because what his uncle did was wrong yet he as a child and adult felt like it was ok what his uncle did with him.

I feel like we overcame that, like he went through the motions of his emotions, but I can't be sure he's fully worked through it. Sexually, our intimate relationship has always felt healthy and honest, has always been open and mostly been very progressive, at least for me.

He shows me a lot of affection, verbally and physically, he is a welcoming vessel of intimacy in that regard. When I need or want a hug, he will usually freely give and receive.


His problems with intimacy come with telling the truth. He will only show people the parts of himself that he wants them to see. He will withhold details so that someone will be more likely to approach him. He will seek out conversation with strangers over the internet or at a bar in order to try to talk with them in more explicit detail again in person, later, but not always follow through to continue the interaction or fully develop the relationship. Or, he will seek out relations with someone he can meet in order to explore certain sexual sides of himself which he is unsure of, curious about or simply wants to indulge in. All of these things he has done in the background where he hoped I would not find out -or, I don't know, maybe he wanted me to find out.

Every time that I have discovered he's once again spoken lewdly with someone about sexuality with the suggestion that they meet, I feel this intense rage.

I feel betrayed. Repressing a latent urge to throw up, I become physically ill for hours or days.

When I confront him he always denies. One time he did this repeatedly, deny, deny, deny, I point right at the webpage of the person he had the conversation with, the photo of the person, he still denied. Half an hour later, he confesses, and tries to explain it in a way he thinks will cause me to forgive and forget, as if sympathy will win the battle.

It is horrible how badly our intimate relationship concerning trust has been hurt by this each time it has come out. He thinks I have no right to know... He will use the "You have no right to trespass upon my privacy," card in arguments as a deflection to try to lay blame back upon me.

Some times, I can look into his eyes seeing nothing but veiled fear; Fear that I will see right through his confident, charismatic act that he is happy and every thing is all right.

I understand why someone who is confused and unfulfilled would want to clarify their feelings and express their needs with a person whom they feel can help them to understand, and I deal with the fact I am not the person he would go to because I lack experience. However, he will not tell me that he acknowledges he has not been fair to the boundaries of his relationship with me. He will not say to me that he is aware of how he has hurt me. He feels like he does what he must to be who he is or try to be who he is, if he could just figure that out. I am so frustrated that he did not resolve his understanding of himself before we got married.

Now, I cannot ever trust him again. He has told me so many things, which he would not tell anyone else, and yet there are secrets which he would only share with complete strangers, never with me, that I have to find out in such a painful manner.

I've told him we can't even be friends until he decides to be 100% honest with me. I doubt he will ever do so. He is always choosing who gets to see what side of himself, who gets to share which part of himself. He is discovering himself with someone else because he can't do that with me. He would rather be emotionally, sexually intimate with other people to which he has absolutely no obligation to be with or be faithful to. In his opinion, what they don't know can't hurt them and certainly won't come back to hurt him, because they'll never find out... about me.

It really, really hurts.

I already had trust issues with people before becoming emotionally involved with this man. This experience has not helped me become less cynical or less apprehensive about what people's motives could be and of how they wear masks and lie to protect their bottom line. He feels like telling the truth just leaves him wide open and vulnerable, while I sit on the other side of the issue wishing I'd never, ever, been so vulnerable with him as to leave myself open to this hurt, as to marry him just to have it end like this.

Because he is tired of feeling guilty and has no wish to try to compromise himself anymore (among many other reasons), we are getting divorced. I feel like he has yet to show me any remorse. He has only said that he was a stupid kid when we got married, that he can't go back in time to be who is now, then.


I've dealt with a lot of emotional pain the past several months over this, but finally was able to tell my parents that the only thing I feel I will miss about not being physically with him is his hug (basically, hugs were not something I really enjoyed until he and I had a physical relationship, including cuddling and tickling). This may sound cold, but I have no other way of rationally reminding myself that our relationship was very unhealthy for both of us, so that I don't feel attached anymore and can move on. I'm sick of his bullshit and his excuses, tired of him blaming me for his guilt, tired of him not taking accountability and responsibility. Now, I won't ever again have to deal with his bad decisions hurting me. Now, they will only hurt him.

I have no idea if he is ever going to overcome his issues of hiding who he is from people, as if that will make his life any simpler. In my opinion, it's only going to complicate his relationships, friendships, etc, but in his opinion it is going to keep him safe and protect the people who he doesn't want to know because then he won't have to deal with the repercussions and judgments of his character. In his opinion, he is being the most un-selfish version of himself by not burdening others with his flaws and his mistakes... ??? Yeah, weird mentality. He's in big trouble the next time he meets someone he wants to get serious with. All the stuff he went through with me he's going to have to deal with all over again. They'll probably never even be told that he was married before.


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## Selene (Aug 2, 2009)

SweetSurrender said:


> My husband was sexually molested by his uncle. This uncle died from a heroine overdose. As is usually the case in sexual abuse, the ripple effect continued creating another subsequent victim.
> 
> This is difficult to say, because he won't even tell his own family. He and his fellow victims have talked about it in a mature way now that they have grown up some and it is past, but I honestly don't know if the chain of effect has stopped for each of them.
> 
> ...


When I read through your post, I felt horrified. All I could do was sit slumped in my chair with my eyes closed, unable to really grasp the full meaning of what I had read.

I wish I could offer you more comfort than that, but all I can really say right now is that I'm sorry you had to experience all of that.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

Selene said:


> When I read through your post, I felt horrified. All I could do was sit slumped in my chair with my eyes closed, unable to really grasp the full meaning of what I had read.
> 
> I wish I could offer you more comfort than that, but all I can really say right now is that I'm sorry you had to experience all of that.


My interest in saying all of it is to find out if anyone else reading might feel that perhaps they, too, have hidden parts of themselves- basically, lied or told truths selectively as a way to protect themselves, as a result of having to deal with conflicting emotions stemming from sexual abuse/molestation... having to deal with societal taboo... dealing with issues of self-esteem, wanting to avoid being targets of further criticism leading toward more self-destruction, possibly. Maybe the hiding of self is common to the motive of wanting to be accepted without any strings attached?

In my husband's case, he's begun to contemplate the likelihood that he is bi-sexual, and that his gender identity is female. So, that could further complicate his trust issues and compound his need to not tell everyone the absolute truth... As for why strangers are more worthy of his secrets than his spouse, I can find no logical explanation unless it fulfills some idea he got in his head that he would hurt me less by not intentionally telling me I was not able to give him what he wanted/needed. Such an assumption is incorrect, as I would prefer the truth and always have. Someone lying to me offends and hurts me more than them being honest with me- something I highly value and respect.

I never like secrecy. I want people to be direct with me. I feel that's only fair, as I really don't have much to hide.

Two of my older brothers were also sexually abused- by a foster child. The older brother is openly communicative of his homosexuality. The younger brother's first marriage was to another survivor of sexual abuse. My brother has told me that his ex-wife behaved in much the same way that my husband has (except that she was much more withdrawn and reluctant regarding sexual intimacy with him), and he's giving me advice on what could possibly happen in the months to follow as we go our separate ways.


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## seraphiel (Dec 26, 2009)

I understand. Mostly.

What I don't understand is this need for 'honesty' and not hiding things... is everything important to know?

For me, personally, there are things I don't want to know, and things I don't want other people to know.

I don't care if it's Jesus Christ himself, if I want to keep something to myself, I have EVERY RIGHT. If somebody doesn't like it, they know where the door is.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

That would be acceptable if you were single. I'm talking about secrets that hurt other people when you would least expect them to, or secrets which cause a person to make carefully constructed plans hoping that the people they are involved with won't be hurt by the truth.

Secrets like, not telling a sexual partner that you have HIV, because, hey, you use a condom every time, why should your partner need to know?

Secrets like, let's not tell the kids that daddy is sleeping with his secretary, so he can still maintain some dignity until the day one of them finds out.

Secrets like, oh I dunno, you're a registered sex offender with child porn on your computer who could get arrested any day and sent to prison.

Those are just random examples, happening to be related to the subject of sex. Kinds of secrets a person just can't have if they want to be in a healthy relationship. Secrets like that jeopardize the well-being of the other people in the relationship because one person was too ashamed to be truthful, wanted to be accepted as someone who they weren't, enjoyed the feeling of being sneaky, etc. Secrets like that are a facade. The person behind them is fake.

We all have things we want to keep to ourselves and our reasons for that. 

I don't mind the private information people share when they want to, with whomever they want, when they're ready, or that they don't share it all, ever- I mind that there are people who think it's fine to live a lie as if the other people in their life will never be affected by it, which is naive. It's especially selfish when a person is NOT single. There really is no point in being married if both people aren't interested in fidelity on all levels of intimacy. Whenever they've reached that level, great, get married- but not until then. Infidelity in any of the intimate areas defies the whole purpose of marriage.


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## seraphiel (Dec 26, 2009)

SweetSurrender said:


> That would be acceptable if you were single. I'm talking about secrets that hurt other people when you would least expect them to, or secrets which cause a person to make carefully constructed plans hoping that the people they are involved with won't be hurt by the truth.
> 
> Secrets like, not telling a sexual partner that you have HIV, because, hey, you use a condom every time, why should your partner need to know?
> 
> ...


Ahh. That makes more sense. It just kind of sounded all-or-nothingish without more specifics. 

I was thinking more about events that are personal to me regardless of who I'm with, i.e. how I was abused, who did it, how many times it happened, etc.

That information is mine. I tell it if I want, and I don't if I don't want. Single or no. It has no relevance on a relationship unless I myself allow it to have one.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

SweetSurrender said:


> My interest in saying all of it is to find out if anyone else reading might feel that perhaps they, too, have hidden parts of themselves- basically, lied or told truths selectively as a way to protect themselves, as a result of having to deal with conflicting emotions stemming from sexual abuse/molestation... having to deal with societal taboo... dealing with issues of self-esteem, wanting to avoid being targets of further criticism leading toward more self-destruction, possibly. Maybe the hiding of self is common to the motive of wanting to be accepted without any strings attached?
> 
> In my husband's case, he's begun to contemplate the likelihood that he is bi-sexual, and that his gender identity is female. So, that could further complicate his trust issues and compound his need to not tell everyone the absolute truth... As for why strangers are more worthy of his secrets than his spouse, I can find no logical explanation unless it fulfills some idea he got in his head that he would hurt me less by not intentionally telling me I was not able to give him what he wanted/needed. Such an assumption is incorrect, as I would prefer the truth and always have. Someone lying to me offends and hurts me more than them being honest with me- something I highly value and respect.
> 
> ...


Sweetsurrender, once again I think you should PM me. Yes, it does make "logical" sense why your husband goes to strangers on internet to reveal more about himself than you. He is not just a sexual abuse survivor, he is also an "incest" survivor. Intimacy is scary for an incest survivor. Living with someone AND being sexual with someone, AND giving up ourselves emotionally, is like being with the perpetrator again. 

You see, we once trusted in the family environment. We received "love" from a family member. In your husband's case it was his uncle. He trusted his uncle's love. But something within in him made him feel so dirty inside. This is evidenced by him needing to hold a "secret". Because as children we are taught to love our family, the shame can only be our fault. And it's a horrible feeling. We try to avoid feeling like that shameful child ever again.

Years later, living with someone like a spouse, places us once again in a "family" environment. So having sex can be shameful. If not, then the emotional connection can be shameful. We were once emotionally connected to our abuser too.

Now I've had TONS of therapy. After one mistake in my marriage, I ran to a therapist. This was an EXCELLENT therapist. I will challenge his advice to anyone's.

My goal in therapy was to learn how to "always want sex with my husband". I was closed up you see. Because I was in an environment where I WAS LIVING WITH MY LOVER. That usually kicks up issues for incest survivors. I didn't know I was a incest survivor at this time. But my therapist read it immediately.

Not only that, I had been brutally raped at 13. This was about a year after the incest perpetrator left my home. My therapist said "in 30 years of practice, I have never seen anyone so abused". So obviously getting me to "open up" sexually was going to be a chore on his end.

I spent 3 years with this therapist. I did everything he told me. We first worked on "what it would be like to 'surrender'" Surrendering is a very important aspect in sexual relations. Both giving and receiving is important. I didn't want to just be a "victim" with my husband compensating. I wanted to LOVE sex while living with someone.

Two of the books he had me read over and over were "For Yourself" and "For Each Other". We also worked on assertive training. You see, working on sexual problems within a marriage is so important. Sex is a microcosm of the entire relationship itself. That's why medical doctors listen to their patients when they say "I can't sexually satisfy..."

What goes on in the bedroom is what is going on in your entire relationship. I had to work on assertive training because I had to convey my clear needs.

Honestly, being with someone who hasn't worked on their abuse issues frightens even me. At this point in my life, I love sex. I love intimacy. No one needs to give me "all the power" so I feel safe. I am completely healed sexually. But I realize most of society-either abused or not, isn't that healthy sexually. I remember one time when I asked my therapist "Why do I need to learn how to surrender?" He replied, "Because I don't want THEM to take that away from you. I want you to have fun. Learn to have fun during sex."

And now that's what I do. But I'm a little "top heavy". Being "intimate" in other ways is hard. Crying to a man, showing him the side of me that I think is shameful-whatever it is, is tough. Usually the stuff that makes me feel "shameful" is so freaking small. So yes, I still can "hide" but I wouldn't trust anyone unless they know ALL about me and can accept me for it.

Check out those books I told you about. Everyone on this thread should check them out. I was in therapy with this man for 3 years working on sexuality. I have absolutely no hang ups anymore. I can definitely "have fun". The last year I did therapy with my counselor he took me for free. He really liked me because I worked on myself so hard and did everything he said. He really healed me and "opened Pandora's box" sexually. But because he took me for free, and because he was so skilled, I don't think his words are mine to keep. They are mine to share with the world.

One more thing: I am single now and divorced. I have dated and had relationships after my marriage. I don't recommend any survivor to tell the person they are dating right away that they are survivors of sexual abuse. I have heard MANY men tell me about their "crazy ex" who had survived sexual abuse. I usually just stare at them when they tell me that. But honestly, if you haven't worked hard on your issues as a sexual abuse survivor I will admit we CAN be crazy. But even if you have, please don't share that info with just anyone until YOU DO trust them. I"ve seen too many abusive men (and yes we attract them) turn any relationship problem with their ex into "that's because she was raped" or "molested" as a child. Thereby ignoring any responsibility on their part for the demise of the relationship.

Be careful who you share your self with. And once you do, make sure it's with a person who is in it for the long haul. But if you are healthy and happy and have worked on your issues, you won't have many triggers in the relationship anyway. Your partner is more likely to have triggers because everyone has issues and they may never have worked on themselves. Be careful. Accept love. But be careful. Boundaries are important for everyone.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

pinkrasputin said:


> Sweetsurrender, once again I think you should PM me.


Yes. =( Dammit.



pinkrasputin said:


> My goal in therapy was to learn how to "always want sex with my husband". I was closed up you see. Because I was in an environment where I WAS LIVING WITH MY LOVER. That usually kicks up issues for incest survivors. I didn't know I was a incest survivor at this time. But my therapist read it immediately.
> 
> Not only that, I had been brutally raped at 13. This was about a year after the incest perpetrator left my home. My therapist said "in 30 years of practice, I have never seen anyone so abused". So obviously getting me to "open up" sexually was going to be a chore on his end.


o_o

Oh. My. God.

*hug*



pinkrasputin said:


> One more thing: I am single now and divorced. I have dated and had relationships after my marriage.* I don't recommend any survivor to tell the person they are dating right away that they are survivors of sexual abuse.* I have heard MANY men tell me about their "crazy ex" who had survived sexual abuse. I usually just stare at them when they tell me that. But honestly, if you haven't worked hard on your issues as a sexual abuse survivor I will admit we CAN be crazy. But even if you have, please don't share that info with just anyone until YOU DO trust them. I"ve seen too many abusive men (and yes we attract them) turn any relationship problem with their ex into "that's because she was raped" or "molested" as a child. Thereby ignoring any responsibility on their part for the demise of the relationship.
> 
> *Be careful who you share your self with. * And once you do,* make sure it's with a person who is in it for the long haul. But if you are healthy and happy and have worked on your issues, you won't have many triggers in the relationship anyway. Your partner is more likely to have triggers because everyone has issues and they may never have worked on themselves. Be careful. Accept love. But be careful. Boundaries are important for everyone.*


I'm just going to scream, now... please, pardon the noise... yes, I've sent you the PM =(


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