# What do you have to offer someone else?



## Mr. Meepers (May 31, 2012)

_What do you have to offer someone else?_
_What can you bring to a relationship? How much do these things outweigh your negatives, or do they?_

Hmmmm, I suppose this could be reworded as "What are the pros and cons of dating you? And are you worth dating?"

And my main answer to that is all these things are not up to me to decide. Other people chose what they like and don't like about me and if they are okay with dating me. It is their choice. I mean I can't run up to them and say, "Look at me, you should date me. I am a great choice, now meeping date me!!!" nor am I objectively a good or bad catch to everyone (for some people I'm a "perfect" catch and and to others, well, there may be no way in purgatory that they would ever want to be in a relationship with me, because they are different people with different wants, strengths/weaknesses, and different value systems/different world views).

Not only that, but I would argue that most qualities are not always positive or negative, and to call them a "pro" or a "con" would be overly simplifying those qualities. I think most qualities are situationally positive or negative. For instance, let's say that being assertive means that you assert your will on the environment around you and being nurturing means you let the environment/others grow around you by letting them assert their wishes (including letting them sometimes assert their will onto you). Now, I would say that probably little to no one is completely one or the other, they will be different for different situations, but I think people usually tend to be more one way than the other. For instance, I'm probably not really assertive (except online, I suppose), which is usually seen as a con (since being assertive going for what one wants), but when it comes to helping others, I don't impose my desires for them onto them, I'm willing to sacrifice a little so that they can make their choices (although, I may have a safety net out for them). Now, you may disagree with the definitions I chose, but my point was to take two opposite things and show that each one is only positive some of the time and each one is only negative some of the time. I suppose I could take my indecisiveness. I think I can be decisive when I need to be, but usually I like doing what other people want to do, but for someone who is very decisive, having someone go with the flow, like me, can feel great because they don't have to butt heads all the time. So I think our "pros" and our "cons" are just an illusion of being "positive" or "negative" based on our own, subjective values.

Of course, I am forgetting that we may be biased towards or against ourselves (and other people may be biased towards how they see us), so how we see ourselves may not be how others see us.



That said, I'll try this out:

Pros:
- I'm kind and I hear that I am sweet
- I think I'm nurturing
- I'm easy going
- Supposedly I am funny
- I have a "whore"ish personality (I'm not sure if this is a pro or a con, but I like it, so I'm putting it as a pro)
- I'm a super cute eevee :wink:
- I have a penis (some people really like this)

Cons:
- I can be too nice and when it comes to criticism, I have a hard time being blunt and I may sugar coat things too much. Sometimes this is okay, but when I have to be firm, I may have to try real hard and it may take a lot out of me and it sometimes comes with feelings of guilt for being too hard and not sensitive enough.
- I may not always be assertive when I should be and, when it comes to looking for jobs, my confidence is sometimes so low that it holds me back.
- I can be indecisive as I am happy and would prefer my partner to have whatever they like to have. (Seeing them happy makes me happy ^__^)
- Sometimes I laugh off pain and ignore it instead of dealing with it properly. I don't always like to be serious. Sometimes I may come of ass mentally insane :crazy:
- I just exude so much hottness that I need to drink a lot of fluids all the time so that I don't dehydrate. Also, sometimes things spontaneous combust when I touch them
- There is no con to being a super cute eevee. I am just that awesome, so deal with it
- I have a penis (for some people, this is a deal breaker)



I suppose I also offer love, support, and affection :kitteh:


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Romantic: Unwavering loyalty and care.

Practical: A reasonably positive attitude and a willingness to grow.

That's about it. Not that I think those are anything to dismiss as inconsequential.

Granted, the first one is something that would presumably occur in a committed relationship, not something I pass out like candy to passers-by. The second one is just me, independent of relationships with other people.


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## TWN (Feb 16, 2012)

OrangeAppled said:


> What can you bring to a relationship? How much do these things outweigh your negatives, or do they?
> 
> I get stuck on this for myself. There are many positives on paper. I'm generally considered pretty, slim, stylish, book smart, and I can be a good listener and patient. Ex-boyfriends have said I am exceptionally kind, patient and sweet, and very emotionally supportive, but my family thinks I am cantankerous, moody and difficult at times. I am creative, imaginative, and introspective, but can probably seem too much of a navel-gazer to some. I also am messy, disorganized, not punctual, and not great with practical matters. I wouldnt make for a good housewife (which is fine; I dont want that), nor am I seeking any conventional success via career. In practical terms, I dont think I have much to offer, but I think I might make for an interesting companion.
> 
> I wonder how much one side outweighs the other....



I'm kind of the complete opposite of you. Or, the INTP version of you.

I'm considered [sexually] attractive rather than "pretty" or "cute" (i.e, more intimidating sexually), masculine, sloppy, intellectual (rather than book smart), honest, blunt, and emotionally distant, and incredibly competent. Im an introvert that's learned to use my extroverted side for good, and can mingle with the best of them. I think beyond that, my strongest features are my independence (Both financially, and mentally) and my spontaneous nature.

On the flip side Im incredibly messy, and disorganized, but I'm great with money (Spending it, not spending it, saving it for specific purposes), bills, any house chores that are considered "manly" (Think: Putting together furniture, killing spiders, ect.), but would probably die in a mountain of my own filth if I didnt have a pet cat, and semi-regular sex.

In short, I'm a disgusting pile of tact-less wonder, and for some reason people still want to be with me.

I think I'd make a fantastic mate, though I wouldn't want to date myself. Too much work.


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

PROS:
I can cook 
I have a nice ass 
I'm generally a polite and quiet person
I'm organised 
I'm yielding 

CONS :
My face is ugly without make up 
My boobs are small
I'm shy
I have a low sex drive and I'm pretty sure I'm bad at sex.


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## Pupazzo (Apr 12, 2015)

pros: 
extremely loyal and honest
your problems are my problems
i love to listen and gather information
i don't judge 
i love to give/receive hugs and every other signs of affection (not while eating or working out at gym or really engaged in something)
i love to give pleasure during sex instead receive

cons:
bipolar shy/expansive, happy/sad, positive/negative
need my time alone
can't speak clearly about my emotions
sometimes too much honest (ppl don't like it and i don't get why...)
sometimes i'm really lazy
i dislike hang out in pubs/bars/disco and drink alcohol [but i like events and smoke weed (no tobacco)]


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Pros:
My butt is aight apparently.
I will give you constant music recs
I like sex and making people feel wanted/desired
You could rest your glass on my head, if taller than 5'3" 
Will buy you small things like coffee, chocolate and books 

Cons:
I can debate
I'm not that fond of PDAs
Introverted (not a con imo but some people may view it as such) can come across as aloof


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Mair said:


> PROS:
> I can cook
> I have a nice ass
> I'm generally a polite and quiet person
> ...


Small boobs are NOT a con bb! Neither is shyness <3 And I bet you're not bad at sex, you may be great with the right person? I liked this post because it seems we are somewhat similar not because I liked you saying you're ugly [without make up] because I bet you're not!


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

Silver, blue and gold. Control


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Hm, I considered making a proper list, but then I find myself thinking that what is a pro and what is a con is rather subjective anyway (so a similar sentiment to what Meepers said, I guess). For example, I'm not very affectionate, which has been a problem, but if my SO was emotionally masochistic or something, it could be a pro. Of course, I have my own ideas of what is attractive about myself or not, but since the question is what can I offer someone else, it depends a bit on what that someone else wants too. I mean, I tend to find my own neediness rather repulsive, but apparently some can find it appealing... I'm not sure I actually have much I actually _value _about myself to offer, though. I mean, I can be aroused by the idea of introducing someone to a new "world", but I'm not exactly very... worldly myself, so it's funny.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I dont really think I have much to offer someone else currently. I think I have plenty of redeeming qualities but I am not in the place where I want to be for me personally where I can comfortably feel like I can adequately give to another human being. In other words I am spread pretty thin with myself and my children. Any time I have dabbled with the idea of dating I never like the direction of where the persons discuss going. 

Its not so much a case of that I cannot compromise my life its just that right now I dont want to. The last few years I have kept trying to recover from various hindering life circumstances and I just dont have the energy for outside people, for now.

Also I think considering I was in an overly oppressive marriage with an extreme conservative traditionalist I basically run as soon as someone mentions the idea of what the hell I can cook for them. (Even tho I can cook well, I dont care, I always think "the nerve for 'you' to assume I want to cook for 'you', ya freak".) 

Anyways I really dont like the expression or label but I am a realist and know that I am damaged goods. I had went thru various abuses in my life which cripples my ability to balance out my emotions properly as I either take things too personal or I am completely disassociated. Also I do have two school aged children. Considering most people I date have children thats not a big deal in its self. But because of various life circumstances I am not where I want to be for myself with them. I dont have extra money for recreation which is a huge aspect of dating someone, and I dont want them to pay for me, so I wouldnt say I am in the place for that currently. 

Our apartment burnt down like a year ago, just typed out loud it doesnt sound like that big of a deal, but it was a huge significance. Have we recovered and replaced the stuff now, most of it yes. But being displaced from my first apartment after leaving my marriage and having everything I worked for in my adult life for me and my kids burnt to the ground was very traumatic. Its the symbolism in it more then the replaceable stuff. I kinda went of the deep end and could not handle the stress of my management/coordinator job (people always whining to me about their petty problems, and fighting the establishment on procedures and policies) after I had just gone threw the fire stuff, and literally had one of those I quit this shit moments and quit without researching my next position and took a terrible position with a shitty photography company (I thought they were more reputable) who basically consume and shit their photographers out for mass production (had I not been in a major depressed state maybe I would have made better judgement then going there-anyways) then I was traveling 60 hours a week without the adequate compensation for it so I had to quit that but I had already trained in my replacement at the previous job. I think its safe to say I may have potentially lost my damn mind. 

And broke from years of pressure. I am starting to come out of the tunnel of some of that but nothing happens over night. But not in anyway where I want to be long term I am doing live porn to get by, and looking into school programs to finish my degree, and thats where my focus is outside my kids, not who I can fulfill or how they can fulfill me. So I really dont want to listen to anyones bullshit so they can fish for validation or what I can do to help anyone. I will sound self righteous but I am not this disgruntle from lack of servitude or care for others, quite the opposite. I dont have the fucking energy. MY give a damn is busted. 

And whether I have worked in live porn or worn suits traveling as a photographer, or worn scrubs managing the nursing home, whatever its irrelvant many people mistake my down to earth vibe and uninhibition as that some how because I dont want to cater or be catered to emotionally for validation that I dont want an emotional connection, when I do. People mistake being sexual as that its an invitation to bring up sex (not talking about my work). anyways thats all rather annoying. 

Gee why am I single. Lol


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Children Of The Bad Revolution said:


> Pros:
> My butt is aight apparently.
> I will give you constant music recs
> I like sex and making people feel wanted/desired
> ...


I don't think being able to debate is a bad thing. Intellectual doormats aren't as interesting, in my opinion.


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Pros:
-Open-minded
-Laid-back
-Not easily offended
-Decent sense of humor
-Can come up with interesting topics of discussion from time to time
-Not particularly needy or clingy
-Can get along with most folks

Cons:
-Incredibly stubborn
-Have a hard time expressing emotions
-Lacking in the looks department
-Have a hard time with compassion
-Lazy
-Low energy
-Can be very withdrawn


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

pro: 

humble

con: 

take a while to be close to someone (i need to trust that you will do the right things, and require some from of mutual care)
High standards (character and values)
prefer someone neither bossy or submissive. so basically someone who is confident but reasonable at the same time


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

Potential Pros:

- For family, I go out of my way to take on many of the basic domestic tasks: cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, and basic lawn care (just not great at edging).

- I'm not particularly needing of my future partner being around constantly to keep me company, since I have things of my own to do, like household chores, work, school, volunteering, and taking care of my own young son.

- I appreciate humor and like to laugh.

- I'm giving of myself with a serving/accommodating attitude.

- I'm told I'm sweet by others a lot, sometimes even told that I'm "too nice."

- I'm interested in listening and engaging in questioning/conversing over certain subjects: current events, history & politics for example.

- I don't care for shopping unless it's for things I think my son or I need. In other words, I don't go shopping for a billion pairs of shoes and purses just to have them. 

-I'm not a pack rat.

-I don't particularly like to gossip about people and their personal lives.

Potential Cons:

-If the guy comes on too fast and strong concerning getting some sort of emotional/relational commitment out of me, I'm most likely going to all of a sudden shut down and withdraw.

- Although I'm told that I'm "too nice" sometimes, I can be quite critical, especially when I end up being around others who I perceive as excessively irrational, subjective, making arbitrary statements, self-absorbed ("its all about me"), or lazy (either mentally or physically).

- I'm not really passionate or romantic. Maybe I haven't been with the right person for that, but that's how I currently am.

- I really don't like being on the phone for more than a few seconds, whether talking or texting. I'd rather speak face-to-face, preferably while doing something else: over dinner, watching the news, etc. Oh, and online chatting, Skyping, or anything like that is pretty much out of the question. I'm not consistent enough to sit at the computer for continuous lengths of time, or making appointments to be on at a certain time. 

- I have a kindergartener. He literally screams for my attention at any given random moment, which is mainly why I'm not consistent with being online when I'm at home.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

series0 said:


> I've asked many women and men what about me makes such a poor first impression. *The most common answer was that I am far too intense.* The people that really know me though add this: You will find a way to get sideways with people. I do not think that I do, but I think that living wisely causes it to happen naturally.


Story of my life. Been told that's my problem as well; too intense. I actually think I'm pretty laid back, but my sister says my confidence is intimidating to people. It's actually my confidence that makes me such an exceptional liar. I can say anything with such certainty that it sounds true. Makes it easy for me to get what I want. Luckily (or unluckily?) for most people I have ethical hang ups about manipulation and use this instead for pulling people's legs.

Decided to actually answer this thread somewhat seriously. 

I think I have positive qualities. I am attractive, take care of myself, I'm smart and self sufficient. I think I am more caring than people would expect, and very loyal. However, I have some... Quirks. I get too wrapped up in my head. I am an artist and a writer, and when I get an idea in my head you need to leave me the fuck alone. I will be unresponsive for the rest of the night, locked up in my office trying to get "it" all out on paper. I am also, and I quote, "too intellectual". I talk about ethics and stuff a lot, and it frustrates a lot of people to tears. I don't let people get away with things (eg. I think X is wrong) without backing it up. I want to talk about it. I want to know why people think what they do. I want to know how things work. I want to debate people. I want new ideas. I need consistent mental and intellectual stimulation, and reading just isn't enough. Deprive me of intellectual conversation and I'm like a border collie that's been locked in an apartment all day. 

I think I overwhelm a lot of people. I can see why I'd be difficult to live with. I also have some health issues from an accident years ago. Not a huge deal, but something a partner would have to deal with. Or watch me deal with. BUT... I think if someone can put up with all that, I can be challenging and fun.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

TWN said:


> intellectual (rather than book smart)


I consider this the same, or I meant to contrast with common sense or street smarts. 
Unless you mean you didn't do well in academic settings...


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

I love Stephen Colbert - 'nuff said.


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## Narcissus (Dec 18, 2014)

Different people like/dislike me for different things so I don't think I could make a list of universal pros and cons...


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## TWN (Feb 16, 2012)

OrangeAppled said:


> I consider this the same, or I meant to contrast with common sense or street smarts.
> Unless you mean you didn't do well in academic settings...




Book smart = Good at ingesting [and later regurgitating] information

Intellectual = Good at digesting information


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

TWN said:


> Book smart = Good at ingesting [and later regurgitating] information
> 
> Intellectual = Good at digesting information


That's not not what I meant though . Sounds more like YOUR personal distinction. [insert eye roll]


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

What a beautiful question. Some might look at this from the selfish view point: "What can YOU do for ME? What is your value?"

But I see it as "How can I give?"

I'd like to think that I'm very genuine and caring. I'm emotionally intelligent and extremely accepting of yours. It's so crucial for a man to have a safe place to emote.

I can hold my own in an intellectual conversation but am willing to be open-minded to other opinions. I respect myself, therefore I can respect you.

I'm very affectionate naturally and will shower you with gifts!



As for the negatives, well... I'm batshit crazy  And not in the cute way.

Whether or not you consider this "balance" is completely up to you to determine.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

*The Good:*
Attractive
Great in bed and love sex
Intelligent
Kind
Generous/Helpful
Accepting/Tolerant
Cook food
Clean
Socially graceful
Independent
Good communicator
Good with kids
Passionate/loving
Open minded/trusting
Fun loving/adventurous
Committed to self improvement
Optimistic with a sense of humor, laugh a lot
Very loyal

*The Bad:*
Chronic pain condition which often leaves me sick for weeks and unable to do much
Lot of PTSD
Occasional mood swings / depressive episodes
Paranoid (mostly about things outside the relationship)
Problems recognising/understanding my own emotions
Often extremely abrasive/defensive during an argument, refuse to back down
Currently working as a stripper
Attachment issues (I get way too attached and then feel like running away)

I like to think that the good still outweighs the bad, but I know for many people the bad parts are huge red flags and/or instant "no"s. I think that goes for most people... Even if you find someone who seems like the perfect man/woman, there will be certain people who think that person isn't worth their time for one reason or another. Mine are just a little more clear-cut: If you're a jealous or conservative man you can't date a stripper. If you are mentally unstable you should not date someone with a history of mental problems, even though I am recovering well and considered stable. If you aren't patient, understanding and a very giving person you should not date someone with a chronic illness. And if you require a woman who never argues, you're fresh out of luck.


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## Vanitas (Dec 13, 2009)

67-70% of what I ask from 'my ideal' is compatibility, so there's that. Fate (that somehow their lives evolved them into a lifeform that is compatible with me), I suppose. 

The remaining percentages I expect to offer in return. 

Bonus is that they'll get a partner that turn heads in public and would suffice nicely as a status cue, if they're into that sort of thing.


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## Gorgon (Feb 16, 2015)

Pros
- Fairly well-read
- Funny
- Extremely affectionate and loving
- Cuddleslut
- I have um... nice *ass*ets
- Sexually adventurous 
- Easy to talk to
- Sensitive
- Passionate
- Supportive
- Loves animals

Cons
- Depressed
- Moody
- Messy and disorganized
- Procrastinator
- Not good with practical matters
- lazy
- not social


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## Scarab (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanatesque said:


> - Cuddleslut


We have a winner! öwö/

Pros:


Good listener
Touchy (hugging, patting, cuddling, snorgling, etc.)
Intellectual
Intelligent
Open-minded
Critical thinker
Helpful
Considerate
Wise like an old man
Moderately sarcastic
Perverse humor (See cons)
Tinkerer
Good with words and saying the right things
Quick learner
Good at drawing (Plenty of people seems to find artistic skills positive)
High sex drive (See cons)
Calm as a monk

Cons:


Seriously, I have none.

Jokes aside, here are some cons:


Over-thinking
Tiny spurts of controllable jealousy
Too flirty (?)
Perverse humor (See pros)
High sex drive (See pros)
Not as emotionally available as an ENFP
Procrastinator

I would see my pros as > my cons. Ö V Ö


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## lunagattina (Nov 7, 2014)

My pros
A LOT:
I'm beautiful
I have the sexiest body ever
I'm a genius but very humble
I'm perfect in everything I do 
I'm caring, sensitive and always ready to please my man
I'm a godness of sex
I'm rich

Cons
JUST ONE: 
I'm a liar


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## sockratees (Apr 7, 2015)

"all Cretans are liars"


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## lunagattina (Nov 7, 2014)

ok
seriously: 
I'm kinda easy going, 
indipendent, 
pretty intelligent, 
ironic 
sweet 
not needy, 
not clingy, 
not touchy. 

This is what I've been said. 

Oh, and I've not false modesties in sex, I like to experiment.
And quite good looking, not beautiful, but kinda pretty, I guess. 

Cons... 
I'm lazy 
procrastinator
I hate to do housework (apart from cooking)
not very sensitive, patient and supportive (but I can be if I really care about you)
sometime TOO indipendent
quite stubborn
solitary (I need much time for myself)
absolutely absent minded


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## changos (Nov 21, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> What can you bring to a relationship? How much do these things outweigh your negatives, or do they?


Natural caretaker here... in trouble. I ask myself your question, my natural introspection and my family education push me to give, and to continuously search and remove negative traits. Sounds good but it's draining and sometimes hurts the very nature of myself, my identity. A lot of good things are good but demand measure, limits, a lot of "negative" things provide you NATURE and humanity, some should never be removed. Being a natural caretaker this question is part of my daily life, but it's enough.

_*I'm at the point of being pushed to ask what's on a relationship for me*_. My last relationship gives a lot of evidence that I lost the balance, my talks with friends about "the problem" confirms this and my talk with a good confident friend who is a psychologist brings the same to the table... I almost never talk about my needs and I'm always putting my SO needs first, mine at last (if ever). This wasn't so evident to me until the examples together cornered me. Even my EXGF who complained about me a lot... including lots of slighting supports that I give and give without asking.


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## TwistedMuses (May 20, 2013)

I am a damaged person, but I have been trying to cope with this and seek help. 

Despite the fact I can be cold and distant to you, if I feel mistreated, I do care about the people I love, genuinely.
I love learning new things while not being forced to. 
A lot of people stated I am intelligent and quite outgoing, friendly.
I am eager to learn what you love and will always try to cheer you up with a treat or two.
I am very sensitive and lack the logical grounding in my arguments, I dislike fiery arguments.


To be honest, I don't know myself nearly as good as everyone else probably.
All I know, if I am comfortable with you, you will have the warmest and dorkiest person with you for a long time...


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## Gorgon (Feb 16, 2015)

Scarab said:


> snorgling


I thought of snorkeling when I saw this word and then I looked it up on urban dictionary. As a cuddleslut, I'm ashamed to say that I've never heard of that word until now


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

Pros

will feed your pet bat
will watch black sunshine in the night
will cook tofu with the beef roast
will wander away for days
will sharpen your muse
will judge you unconditionally 

No cons wanted


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

cons:

i'm pretty judgmental. not about your hair, or your makeup, or what you wear, or what you choose to do for a living--but just in what you believe and in how you see the world, as this says a lot about you (and my conception of what your worth as a person is... again, judgmental)... overly harsh as well when unhealthy, to the point that my judgments are more a sign that something's wrong with me currently, as looking back on things, i really couldn't care less. 

moody and short-tempered. also "suffer" from a belief that if i understand you, i expect you to understand me (which is irrational, come to think of it). 

very stubborn, most likely won't let you win an argument if it doesn't make sense... i'm coming around from this a little though, adding "i feel" to be more important that what is "right", and not letting the lack of the latter bother me so much if it'll make the other person happy (which is actually easier said than done, as it feels like a personal affront, as sad as that is to say lol). 

can be hot/cold in relationships. this is because i don't do well with my own emotion if it is very deep (and this actually took a while to figure out, because in the past i would feel that i just needed space and felt claustrophobic like i couldn't breathe, and would in turn become angry with the other person... for being so amazing, basically, to cause me to feel something or to access something that i never touch or deal with; a mental block, just not even knowing, but feeling a little out of control, and having no idea what the cause is... it's actually kind of frightening to give in and see what happens, as happiness is kind of... frightening?). 

i don't ever let things go until they are resolved. it's at once a good thing in the working world/school, as my head just can't put something down, but it becomes torture if that "thing" isn't something i can be detached towards... a common ground and understanding is what i need, a shared perception, or at least a mingling or meeting place for both of our perceptions, and then it's gone. 

very bad temper, honestly. i've only had one ex see me lose it, almost got into a fight with a bunch of would-be-cholo-gangsters, an entire gas-station parking lot, right next to a busy street, in the height of traffic/commerce--dead silent; had to drive somewhere else and lay down in the shade, my whole body was shaking like a bad come down... i never lose it towards them, but that doesn't actually matter at the end of the day because it's still unsettling, and it still scares them... and honestly, it's shameful. it should be something saved for those who truly deserve it (an attack against us--not on a bunch of posturing douchebags), and not lost in such a way that the fallout on someone i care about is greater than the need _of it_ to come out to begin with... i don't ever want the person i'm sleeping with be scared of me. 



pro's:


you don't ever have to wear makeup or shave. i know there are guys that say stuff like that, but i honestly do not care, even one goddamn bit. i actually prefer the no-makeup-look, as it gives the person kind of a pinched-look, and i find it really cute. 

as long as you clean up after yourself (with heavy exceptions, i guess), you don't have to be a "house-elf-girlfriend"/wife. it actually makes me feel better to clean the place up so it's not cluttered and gross (reminds me too much of my own house growing up). i like cooking for people too, and i'm actually really good--been cooking since i was about ten'ish. 

i love to make the person i'm sleeping with feel amazing about her body; i just want her to feel beautiful... it's also really important, ego aside, to make sure that she's happy with our sex life; i encourage bluntness... and i also love going down on the person i'm with--it's just really intimate, and is about the coolest of experiences i've ever had sexually (roughness aside). 

i'm pretty go-with-the-flow in every day life. as long as everything's taken care of, i don't really care how we spend our time... that said, while i like to go out, when in a relationship i'm more of a homebody and would rather smoke a bowl (or not) and watch netflix--explore new series, find good/or not so good horror movies, and chomp up documentary after documentary. (that may not be a "pro" in some peoples' books, but...)

one of the cons can actually be a pro in some lighting: while my temper can be a bad thing, it can also be a great thing... i don't have a problem fighting for someone i don't even know, or for a friend, but with a spouse of sorts i don't want to assume anything and don't want to overstep my bounds... i guess i need to know that they want my help or assistance with a problem/fight (as i find it disrespectful to just assume that the person i'm with needs my help, and don't want it to seem as if i think they need me to hold their hand), but, if i know that they want it, i will devour someone's soul and pick my teeth with their _fucking_ short ribs... 
the apprehensive feeling of not being able to just jump in on their account is very similar to the feeling of not feeling anything thing because the feeling itself is too deep (as that of when i assume i "need space"), but when i know they will accept my help it's like lifting the cover on something i didn't know was there--they might even be surprised and have been, because it seems like i don't care, but only because i wasn't even aware that i cared; it's like looking at a blank slate, or trying to find something in your closet but finding a brick wall after opening the door... 

i've been told i'm good looking. high cheek bones that are flat in the front, but sick out laterally; almond-shaped eyes; existent lips; broad jaw, defined chin. i'm finally putting on more of my high school weight, and am still as lean now as i was then. i can open and close my hands and see separation in the muscles of my chest; abs, veins, you can see all my muscles, etc., and are more than welcome to as i don't mind nudity (not my own, and of course not their's).

i also love being sweet (despite what you may see, especially on here, lol--never found so many opinions i disagree with, ). i like finding that small thing you've mentioned, or something that is related to it, and buying it for you... or just saying how pretty you look today, and wrapping the person up in a bear-hug, kissing her forehead.


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## Scarab (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanatesque said:


> I thought of snorkeling when I saw this word and then I looked it up on urban dictionary. As a cuddleslut, I'm ashamed to say that I've never heard of that word until now


*Glomps you then begins to snorgle you* One learns better from practical experience.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

changos said:


> Natural caretaker here... in trouble. I ask myself your question, my natural introspection and my family education push me to give, and to continuously search and remove negative traits. Sounds good but it's draining and sometimes hurts the very nature of myself, my identity. A lot of good things are good but demand measure, limits, a lot of "negative" things provide you NATURE and humanity, some should never be removed. Being a natural caretaker this question is part of my daily life, but it's enough.
> 
> _*I'm at the point of being pushed to ask what's on a relationship for me*_. My last relationship gives a lot of evidence that I lost the balance, my talks with friends about "the problem" confirms this and my talk with a good confident friend who is a psychologist brings the same to the table... I almost never talk about my needs and I'm always putting my SO needs first, mine at last (if ever). This wasn't so evident to me until the examples together cornered me. Even my EXGF who complained about me a lot... including lots of slighting supports that I give and give without asking.


I believe I can offer you some ... help. Why do I say this? Because I have had several girlfriends that had the same pattern you have. So, maybe, it relates. And you know what? I helped them get over their issues both while I was dating them and after I left them. And that last bit should tell you something you already know. Unless you correct your issue, you will continue to get left by healthy people.

Please hear this out, but remember, I am only going on what you have said above.

So, the bottom line is this: it's very hard to respect someone that does not respect themselves. Now on the surface of that comment you may object. Go ahead. You may claim, as did these women, that you respect yourself. But I contend it is not yet a healthy level of self-respect. 

Healthy self-respect includes a balanced anger that makes absolutely certain a person is being treated fairly. This is the combined anger of all three anger virtues. The 8 anger of challenging the other person on their weaknesses which includes their manipulation and heavily leaning on you. The 9 anger of demanding unity and peace with you which demands a peaceful atmosphere and work by the other party towards stability / accountability. The 1 anger of absolute fairness, even down in some cases to tit for tat reasoning. 

My contention is that these three angers are not sufficiently present in your makeup. You need to activate them and nourish them as part of the process of caretaking yourself.

Caretakers (I have no idea if you really are enneatype 2 but that is typical), struggle with an inner sense of worthlessness. They attempt to patch this up by becoming a desirable commodity for the other people in their lives. They insinuate themselves in one on one relationships often attempting to become something essential for the other person. I call this 'becoming your liver'. The 2 will literally try to make themselves invaluable so that the other person cannot live without them. 

But this approach backfires in many cases. Self pres types especially will reject becoming needy entirely. Many other types will slip into dependence at first and then hate that about themselves and reject it. So, in becoming something that truly is needed, you make the other person weaker and then, they despise you for making them dependent. 

By feeding your ego, your desire to be needed, you weaken others and yourself.

There must be balance. Anger is the key. Some part of you must become angry at yourself for needing to be needed. You must realize that you must stand alone as a whole person to best benefit from a relationship. 

The core battle you must fight deep within yourself is that you are worthy by definition. Nothing you do or do not do will make you any more or less worthy. This means in truth that the struggle of your ego is a delusion. You do not need to be needed. You need to love yourself and then you can broadcast that wholey. 

Anyway, hopefully some of that is on track for you. It did indeed help my ex relationship partners. They have told me so many times.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

changos said:


> Natural caretaker here... in trouble. I ask myself your question, my natural introspection and my family education push me to give, and to continuously search and remove negative traits. Sounds good but it's draining and sometimes hurts the very nature of myself, my identity. A lot of good things are good but demand measure, limits, a lot of "negative" things provide you NATURE and humanity, some should never be removed. Being a natural caretaker this question is part of my daily life, but it's enough.
> 
> _*I'm at the point of being pushed to ask what's on a relationship for me*_. My last relationship gives a lot of evidence that I lost the balance, my talks with friends about "the problem" confirms this and my talk with a good confident friend who is a psychologist brings the same to the table... I almost never talk about my needs and I'm always putting my SO needs first, mine at last (if ever). This wasn't so evident to me until the examples together cornered me. Even my EXGF who complained about me a lot... including lots of slighting supports that I give and give without asking.


Honestly, I find "Nurturers" generally have a "selfish" blindspot, and when they caught up in being a martyr and how no one ever does for them in return, the core of their nurturing is revealed (ie. giving to get, in a manipulative, passive-aggressive way). This is why they will not attract healthy people. It's not a matter of asking what's in it for them, but being honest with themselves, so that they only offer nurture when it's a genuine gift and not a means to fulfilling themselves.

This may not be you, but you know how people on job interviews will say their biggest flaw is "perfectionism" to avoid divulging a potentially deal-breaking flaw? That is what "I'm too nurturing" or "I'm too nice" sounds like, only such people are deceiving themselves. It's some ego-defence mechanism.

I dealt with an INFJ ex who was like that... claims of being highly self-critical mean little when you observe someone putting a spin on everything so they are always the nurturing martyr. 

Again, may not apply here, but something to think about.


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## Euclid (Mar 20, 2014)

series0 said:


> you are worthy by definition. Nothing you do or do not do will make you any more or less worthy.


The ontological argument has resurfaced in the self esteem movement :dry:


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## changos (Nov 21, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> Honestly, I find "Nurturers" generally have a "selfish" blindspot, and when they caught up in being a martyr and how no one ever does for them in return, the core of their nurturing is revealed (ie. giving to get, in a manipulative, passive-aggressive way). This is why they will not attract healthy people. It's not a matter of asking what's in it for them, but being honest with themselves, so that they only offer nurture when it's a genuine gift and not a means to fulfilling themselves.
> 
> This may not be you, but you know how people on job interviews will say their biggest flaw is "perfectionism" to avoid divulging a potentially deal-breaking flaw? That is what "I'm too nurturing" or "I'm too nice" sounds like, only such people are deceiving themselves. It's some ego-defence mechanism.
> 
> ...


Thanks but that's not me, I give expecting nothing, and if... only a little of respect or gratitude. I understand what you explain, came across a lot of people like that while doing social work, it's difficult for people to give without receiving and we often consider positive to do it so, but it's actually from where I'm standing right now: worse. And yes, denial is a terrible thing (is what happens on the interviews you mention) people disguise often their worst defect with "virtues".


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## changos (Nov 21, 2011)

Most of "nice" people and families educate on the idea of "give without expecting back" because it's nice, good, noble, kind, etc and not selfish. Thinking otherwise is considered selfish. I was educated that way... and I embraced it, even while growing up saw diff examples of my family not living exactly under that idea (me? I did and it hurt). I'm intj if it serves for something but when I open my heart I often act like a fool. My partner can propose deals for both to agree and I'm the loyal one respecting it till the end, and pretty often find the other party failing, not me.

I considered that to be a positive thing but now over the years I often see myself as a fool, fooled by them. I was told to be patient and tolerate people mistakes, and I did, so far I broke some limits and then when I leave, it's because so many things have been broken there is practically nothing the other party can do to keep me there.

I could go on, I trusted several principles being taught to me, only to fail because people don't play clean, less in relationships because to be honest and I'm not talking only about my opinion but also other people opinion (who work in therapy or psychology) love relationships are the place where people take out their games more than anywhere else. Won't hijack the thread but this is still related. Was "destined" as some people say to be good, great, hit high... and that brought me a weight since early years of being faster... please consider others. Being smarter: consider other mistakes. But yes I'm dumb, I was pushed to lower my expectations. Not playing the victim here, it's the result of years and years, and lately being able to see more clearly. I was educated to ask nothing in return, and also educated to believe women suffer... and suffer.... and suffer. There is some of this on other threads (posts of mine).


Thank you @series0 for your long and nice post, it hits the nail several times. I had a religious background so... there you go: inside was GIVE, then if anything inside me was detected (by myself) as expecting in return: ALARM, I was doing it wrong. Repeat until expecting disappear. It's tricky because we are told that's the way, well I got it wrong and got enough pressure to embrace it. On the partner relationship I'm very strong, so I take the weight of a lot of things because I start seeing what the other party can tolerate and what not, I usually eat several bullets. I've been into risk sports and it's been the same, no problem for me to carry more weight but this is enough on relationships. Have no ego problem, or at least I must say I DIDN'T, now I think I have a problem because over the years this has deteriorated my inner view. I'm starting to change, it's difficult but just as you I helped a lot of people to grow and they all left because I expect nothing in return, just like you helped even when we were over, but nobody helped me. 

My conversations and "work" with my friend psychologist are being helpful, specially in terms of signals, because it's not just me, there are a lot of patterns where people pick "you are a giver" and the parasitic relationship begins. 

This is long enough but thank you, I'm working on this. And trust me (addressed to others) there are people willing to give without expecting anything, even giving without other people seeing it and it's-not-good, it's not healthy. It's difficult to reverse it because there are years of programming there, years of influences that one embraces.

Check my post history (not so evident to me until now) I try to understand others over and other, place questions about other people opinions to understand them, but when do I post "I have this problem fuck the world?" very... very rarely, very..... very rarely. I'm doing better, I'm not helping my ex with problems, she is on therapy and I'm getting help too.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Euclid said:


> The ontological argument has resurfaced in the self esteem movement :dry:


You say this with the - is that a frowny face - icon. What are you really saying, if anything? I am guessing that you think very little of this belief and the movement. Is that correct, and why?


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## great_pudgy_owl (Apr 20, 2015)

I can offer my firstborn pup...


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

Makes me wish I had some sort of inventory to measure the intangible, though it would vary for each individual.
So, a reflection of my self from myself.


* *




Some perceive me to be kind, perhaps a result of my effort to not be a prick to people, thinking this might be agreeableness as described in the Big 5. 
I'm thought to be intelligent, this isn't because of a great intellect, more I think about somethings more than some and am curious. 
Not sure about humor as I sometimes wonder that if a person likes you that this has the effect of them finding you to be more entertaining or amusing regardless of what you do. I tend to make myself laugh and laugh a lot around others though.
In the right light and with some grooming i'm sure I don't look too bad XD

This is just turning into a cliche of running through the mill stuff that people cite because we think of these facets as measures of appeal. I really don't know myself well enough to say what it is that makes another person tick, the small things, the entirety that makes them feel the way they do. 
I just tend to think that what ever parts make me, as a whole, I make people feel a particular way and that changes because people are different. To some I'm too passive, lazy, i'm not aligned to their life goals or even their lifestyle.
To others i'm a breath of fresh air that affirms them deeply, that makes them feel comfortable to be themselves than they might be with others.
Maybe it's a cop out because I find this hard to answer and how to aim my thoughts of what answers in a way I consider meaningful. 
I just know for what ever reason some people feel i'm worth their time and they may not like all the pieces of me but they like enough in what ever variation they experience them. Because personally I never really felt like I had much to give, not in a sense that I'm not lovable or what ever but I'm not looking to date myself. And when I think to much on trying to appeal to what others might like as opposed to what I think is an improvement for myself i'm going off course.




Boiled it down to I make people feel good


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

*Pros*
Grounded/practical
Follows through with plans
Communicates consistently/has integrity
Eccentric
Strong minded
Good listener
Set in my ways/stubborn
Financially frugal
Takes good care of health
Is a safe keeper rather than a risk taker
Strong work ethic/very responsible
Good with children and takes good care of animals
Serious-minded
Has good judgment and is generally a good judge of character
Obeys the law
Has strong self control
Carefully weighs options before making a decision

*Cons*
Can get impatient easily
Easily stressed out
Doesn't like a lot of change
Isn't interested in abstract theory
Can be rigid in adhering to plans
Not very adaptable
Loses energy after stimulation and around lots of people
Can be blunt and unintentionally insensitive
Unaware of subtle social ques
I am socially awkward
I am romantically inexperienced and have no sexual experience
I am usually very shy around strangers
I am very physically weak 
My feelings can be easily hurt
Can get easily jealous and have confidence and self esteem issues due to past hurts
Can become grumpy easily if plans change spur of the moment 
Can be judgmental and self righteous
I have mood change issues, depression and ADD
Has difficulty expressing emotions to people


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## EnigmaticMan (Apr 20, 2015)

Love, honesty, empathy, intellect, a good sense of humor, respect for individuality/personal space, and a willingness to listen/work on difficulties that arise. I aim to please in bed.

Things I can work on: physique (not bad looking at all but could use some muscle/tone), developing more hobbies (but there's only so much you can do alone to any satisfaction), and relaxing (I experience persistent stress/anxieties).

Things I cannot offer: lots of money (working as a Youth/Young Adult Mentor for a nonprofit), kids (there's enough people in the world already), marriage/exclusivity (I don't believe in owning others), and religious adherence (I'm an atheist).


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## Magnetism (Apr 25, 2015)

Great listening skills, adoration, being giving, helpful, supportive, loyal, making someone feel good about themselves, and being cute.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I can offer conversation, listening skills, a great massage, cooking, a tenacity about getting what I want, I'm open and giving sexually, aware and willing to maintain a base line of attractiveness through diet exercise grooming, and am very capable of being loyal to the right man.

On the negative, I'm very independent to the point of being argumentative, I don't like to take any shit off of anyone, have very much been my own person for quite some time and am disorganized and messy (though I am clean). Some men would probably find my spontaneous nature unsettling, and despite my attributes as a traditional woman, the other stuff can make me seem kind of a bad risk long term, I am overall kind of uneven. ISTJ once said to me, you're either all lovey dovey and ghey, or a complete bitch. I think every man I've been involved with for any length of time shares this view, except he followed it with "why can't you just be normal"...that's another issue, I am not "normal" in terms of being conventional and the men I choose usually aren't either. 

My feelings are easily hurt by a man I'm in love with, and it's difficult for me to communicate that without becoming dramatic and emotional. Some men get off on that, but it seems like the level of excitement and passion I want isn't even compatible with learning better communication skills.


On the plus side, I do meditate and go to counseling and will try any kind of self help, so if the right man would do these things with me, some of my flaws might become better. I'm willing to address the issue.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

I can touch my nose with my tongue.

That is all.


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## bkdjdnfbnne (Mar 8, 2015)

Torai said:


> I can touch my nose with my tongue.
> 
> That is all.


You're going places. 

Can you also lick your elbow?


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

*What can you bring to a relationship?*

I've never bothered to consider it and I don't really see any reason to.

What I think I have to offer is really irrelevant unless the other person perceives me the same way that I perceive myself. Which of my traits/characteristics are considered a strength or weakness will vary with each potential partner and will depend entirely upon their perception of me.


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## chanteuse (May 30, 2014)

Sourpuss said:


> I don't know, a dark sense of humor and neglect?
> 
> I'd be much more content if I had lots to offer, but as of now life a bit lacking.



If you have a lot to offer and no taker, you would not be as content as not having much to offer and no taker.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> What can you bring to a relationship? How much do these things outweigh your negatives, or do they?


I'm good looking (for as much as such things can be reasonably measured), intelligent, musical, enjoy lengthy conversations on many interesting subjects and can comfortably leap from topic to topic within these very rapidly, decent sense of humor if it happens to be your taste, I'm supportive, affectionate, generous, patient, have a nice voice (I sing casually and co-host an internet show) and I'm an excellent cook. I'm completely financially stable, independent and self sufficient. I have a great family.

I also have a number of subjects I know on a ridiculously deep level and I can focus on them and talk about them endlessly if invited/permitted to. This feature is one that partners have either really appreciated or somehow felt kind of threatened by, usually depending on how interested they were in the subjects too, or how open they were to me having interests apart from them. I'll regularly "discover" new things and dive as deep into them as I can for weeks or months at a time until I feel like I know all about them, which some found unsettling and a little intense.

As to outweighing negatives, in this context, I'd say yes, because I think I'm a good boyfriend. I've been with women who have not quite clicked with me in important ways and those relationships didn't work out, but life went on and I'm happier.


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## Magnetism (Apr 25, 2015)

Can we be vulgar? I do one particular sexual act nicely, and for crave it regularly. That would outweigh my negative traits of worrying too much, being emotional at times, etc...


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

Axwell said:


> You're going places.
> 
> Can you also lick your elbow?


Depends on the day and whether I try hard or not.


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## chanteuse (May 30, 2014)

series0 said:


> I am fit, healthy, not hard to look at, confident, smart, and wise. I can always find something interesting in any situation. I have a great sense of humor and I am witty with banter and fun and open to be around. My command of the English language is the equal of 99% of the people I've met. I've never not been able to fix anything I put my mind to except for 1 demon car (neither could 4 professional mechanics).
> 
> But
> 
> ...




Thank you for being open. It's hard for many men to say what you say about your struggle with your currently job stability issue. I don't know what to tell you to be any actual help except to look for public sector jobs. It is one employer that might overlook age when hiring. 

One time our department made an offer to a 60 year old guy into our training class. He had to decline before the starting date because of health issue. Currently half of our annual training class is 35 and above (the other half 20 somethings). The management realized after several years of hiring ppl right out of college that the attrition rate was HIGH. Young ppl could not see it reasonably to stay in one place for 30 years so half of them would quit within 3 to 5 years. It's a huge waste of time and resources.


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## cricket (Jan 10, 2011)

Oh, man.
Like everyone, a balance of pros and cons. Not much of balance however, more like a see-saw, with the cons being the fat kid.

I do/would make a great girlfriend and/or wife... but my relationships tend to start with the guy thinking I'm someone I'm not. So, if there's a guy looking for a girl who is completely imperfect, complex, and withdrawn who also meets my qualifications, I'm yours.
(Based on what I've been told & what I know of myself)
Pros: Not a bad cook, likes to do things for my SO, laid-back, kind, high libido, loves dogs, low maintenance, intelligent, semi-close with my family, parents love me, not bad looking in certain lighting, good driver, law abiding, I can sing
Cons: Needy, can be really intense at first, intimidating, poor memory, bossy, poor vision, I am content living below the poverty line, bad dancer, desires a lot of attention and affirmation, easily hurt, I don't like bars/clubs, prefer staying in with wine & Netflix, etc.

I feel like I'm filling out a girlfriend resume.


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## Somniorum (Oct 7, 2010)

Uh... I gots a lotta books... 

Any ladies wanna books?

**hooks a book onto a fishing line and hides around the corner with a fishing pole in the library**
Okay actually that's sounding really creepy...


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## cricket (Jan 10, 2011)

Somniorum said:


> Uh... I gots a lotta books...
> 
> Any ladies wanna books?
> 
> ...


At least you didn't say anything about a van


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## raskoolz (May 26, 2014)

Insight and a different perspective


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## xisnotx (Mar 20, 2014)

A litany of psychological issues. A kingdom. An army thats a couple hundred million strong. A high place in society. Great sex. Jokes. Company. Plenty of money and land. Intelligence. A good father for the kids...lots more.


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## Doran Seth (Apr 4, 2015)

In relationships I am very loyal and dedicated. I want my partner to be happy and the relationship to be successful and I am always looking for ways to accomplish these goals. Plus I'm an excellent cook


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