# Why am I finding it so difficult to determine personality type



## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

Just when I feel like I'm closing in on a type it slips away. 

I'm thinking I need to kind of start afresh and scrap everything I think I know, then start from the correct place. You know how people who practice a sport for a long time without a coach often have a terrible technique that is difficult to correct?

Well I guess what I'm asking is where I should start from. 

I feel like I have all this information in my mind but I can't be bothered or don't understand how it all fits. Often when I explain my understandings of things to other people it is a load of unconnected pieces of information and facts thrown at them. 

It's like instead of making someone a cup of coffee, I'm just putting the coffee sugar then a puddle of milk on a plate, then later remembering to add a bit of water then another teaspoon of sugar.


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## Satan Claus (Aug 6, 2013)

Watch Davesuperpowers on Youtube and read about the functions. Also visit personality junkie. I thought I was an INTJ but I'm actually an INFJ. It took a while. Almost a year!


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

How bout comparing this stuff to reality.
You know people around you and stuff.
The best way for me was to identify the types of conflicts I would get into.
Nothing spells out your type more clearly than realizing that the INFJ you just met puts you in a beneficiary role.
Or the ENFP supervises the crap out of you.
Or the activation from the INTJs the friendsships with ESFPs, the inferiority and growth around ENTJs.
The feeling of using ISTJs, the liking but ultimately not having any sympahty for INFPs.
The contrasts that ESFJs bring to the table, the utter boredom around ISFJs, unless it is being productive at work.
The attraction to INTPs, but utter repulsion from what they actually stand for.
The on and off relations with ENTPs.
The companionships with ISTPs, watching ESTPs who everyone fear and respect crumble before your morals.
eh you get the point.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

hornet said:


> How bout comparing this stuff to reality.
> You know people around you and stuff.
> The best way for me was to identify the types of conflicts I would get into.
> Nothing spells out your type more clearly than realizing that the INFJ you just met puts you in a beneficiary role.
> ...


Hmm good idea. Let's seeee..

ESFPs bring me into action, get me moving about and doing stuff, give me energy. I've fell for a few of them. Ha! I've had a thought. Maybe people say that you "fall for someone" because you fall to your knees when you ask someone to marry you. Hmmm..

I have some great conversations with INFJs that last a long time. I feel like we're on the same wavelength, they often seem to want to hear what I have to say. 

For some reason ESTJs often look to me for advice, which I find surprising because they seem more practical than I am.

I relate well to INTPs though they sometimes seem more..intense maybe or more sure of themselves and their views. 

I noticed a few SFPs often criticize my lack of dress sense, feel like I should change things up, think I could do with things that I don't. Think I need looking after lol and take the motherly role.

In a way the ENFJs I know think more highly of me than I feel I deserve, think I have a lot of potential and can give me too much credit.

I believe my friend is an ISTP and I very often look to him for advice, he seems like he has his shit together at all times and I can count of him for some stability and clarity.

I often feel a need to impress NTJs, and wish I was more sure of myself and more decisive. 

I find that I have a lot of good advice to give the ISTJ that I know, like I have the understandings that he is missing and we pick up on each other's weaknesses.

My girlfriend is an xNFP and the main problem we face is that we operate at much different paces, and I'm pretty damn unreliable. She's more chilled, likes to take her time, but when I get myself mobilized I like operating at 100mph. She's more consistently 40mph I'd say. 

I'll try to work out what relationships I can say I have with the types I mentioned based on this. I don't know many xSFJs so I find it hard to work out the kind of relationship we have. Though from the two ESFJs that I know we can find it hard to see eye to eye, though I can see a few ways in which we are quite similar.

Anything you picked up in particular about who would be supervisor, or beneficiary etc.?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

TruthDismantled said:


> Just when I feel like I'm closing in on a type it slips away.
> 
> I'm thinking I need to kind of start afresh and scrap everything I think I know, then start from the correct place. You know how people who practice a sport for a long time without a coach often have a terrible technique that is difficult to correct?
> 
> ...


I'm going to make an assumption that you're young. You are still getting to know yourself. Did you know that cognitive development continues well into your 20's? You're probably not quite finished yet. The tests can help narrow things down, but they aren't perfect because we're not perfect. Try to go from the general to the specific. Study the temperaments, the functions, then the types. Once you have a grasp on them, you'll be able to flesh out your own. 

I think you may be trying too hard. Relax a little. There is no "correct place." There is just wherever you happen to be at this moment. It isn't any "better" or "worse" than wherever you were before. We are all more than just four cognitive traits. Knowing your type isn't going to make you anything you aren't any more than it can tell you who you are. It just gives you some tools to work with that make discovering you a bit easier.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I'm going to make an assumption that you're young. You are still getting to know yourself. Did you know that cognitive development continues well into your 20's? You're probably not quite finished yet. The tests can help narrow things down, but they aren't perfect because we're not perfect. Try to go from the general to the specific. Study the temperaments, the functions, then the types. Once you have a grasp on them, you'll be able to flesh out your own.
> 
> I think you may be trying too hard. Relax a little. There is no "correct place." There is just wherever you happen to be at this moment. It isn't any "better" or "worse" than wherever you were before. We are all more than just four cognitive traits. Knowing your type isn't going to make you anything you aren't any more than it can tell you who you are. It just gives you some tools to work with that make discovering you a bit easier.


Yeah I was born in the mid-90s so still developing functions, yep. I guess for me it's a challenge, and I don't have a good understanding of myself yet so I think finding the closest type will act as a kind of comparison to understand more about myself. I think part of it may be because of my Fi, I get a little baffled when I'm faced with Fi questions and wish I was more connected to it. I'm very indecisive when it comes to them. There are good and bad sides to many things when it comes to ethics. 

My temperament is Melancholic/Sanguine, it switches in an almost bipolar way. I get confused when I read descriptions of Se. Some theorists place emphasis on Se as force of will, asserting oneself, influence and energy. Others see it simply as objective sensing, seeing things for what they are, being aware of environment and being physically able and enjoying thrills and new experiences. 

I relate well to the second description, not at all to the first. I don't like having to assert myself, my Fi goes retarded and I struggle on a moral level to work out whether I was too pushy, asserting too much, whether I shouldn't have reacted a certain way, whether I've unfairly pressured someone, etc.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

Do you guys agree with this grid? 

Socionics Model A


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

TruthDismantled said:


> Do you guys agree with this grid?
> 
> Socionics Model A


Socionics will drive you crazy if you spend too much time looking at it. I have two college degrees and it still seems extremely technical and academic to me.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TruthDismantled said:


> Anything you picked up in particular about who would be supervisor, or beneficiary etc.?


No this is too superficial and incidential I think.
You got to get a feel for it, by reading the relation descriptions and matching it up to people in your life.
Sort of like a big puzzle.
Since you have ISTP as your most probable type you should test it up for that first.

Socionics - the16types.info - Socionics Intertype Relations Chart

Since your girlfriend is ENFP this should match the relationship to some degree.
If both your types are correct.

Socionics - the16types.info - Conflict Relations

Or INFP

Socionics - the16types.info - Superego relations


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

@TruthDismantled

You are inside the box:


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

hornet said:


> No this is too superficial and incidential I think.
> You got to get a feel for it, by reading the relation descriptions and matching it up to people in your life.
> Sort of like a big puzzle.
> Since you have ISTP as your most probable type you should test it up for that first.
> ...


Oh man this is hurting my brain. There are so many extraneous variables to this, I mean I'd need to know about 5 people of one personality type to reliably say that I tend to have x type of relationship with them. There is an ESFJ who I get on quite well with, who I have different opinions to but am interesting in hearing from. There is an ESFJ who I have a terrible relationship with, which always ends up in an argument.

I know a ESFP who fills me with energy, who I admire for their abilities which I lack in. There's another ESFP who picks fault with everything I do and feels a need to mother me.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TruthDismantled said:


> Oh man this is hurting my brain. There are so many extraneous variables to this, I mean I'd need to know about 5 people of one personality type to reliably say that I tend to have x type of relationship with them. There is an ESFJ who I get on quite well with, who I have different opinions to but am interesting in hearing from. There is an ESFJ who I have a terrible relationship with, which always ends up in an argument.
> 
> I know a ESFP who fills me with energy, who I admire for their abilities which I lack in. There's another ESFP who picks fault with everything I do and feels a need to mother me.


Hmm well maybe this isn't the approach for you then.
It works for me. :wink:


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

hornet said:


> Hmm well maybe this isn't the approach for you then.
> It works for me. :wink:


Maybe if I had more friends I'd have more data to work with :crying:


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TruthDismantled said:


> Maybe if I had more friends I'd have more data to work with :crying:


Well that could be a factor.
Still the cognitive function approach is pretty valid too.
The relation one is mostly a calibration check of your type once you think you have it right.

There is always the option of expanding your friend base.
The past does not have to equal the future.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Remembering how you acted in early childhood can be a big clue also.
ISTPs tend to be pretty tough at that age.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

hornet said:


> Remembering how you acted in early childhood can be a big clue also.
> ISTPs tend to be pretty tough at that age.


As a kid I was hyperactive and mischievous, though also quite sensitive and keen to impress people. I was naïve too, impressionable. Very sporty, active


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

Reinin dichotomies table helped me, are you familiar with it?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TruthDismantled said:


> As a kid I was hyperactive and mischievous, though also quite sensitive and keen to impress people. I was naïve too, impressionable. Very sporty, active


You are approaching this from a strictly trait centric POV.
You can't do that.
You need to follow the principles and patterns.
To try to pin a set of strict traits usually don't work.

You need a paradigm shift in order to be able to get this.
Reading Jungs work would be a start.

The actual Jungian Descriptions



Straystuff said:


> Reinin dichotomies table helped me, are you familiar with it?


They are quite interesting and seem legit as far as I can tell.
I second that.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

Straystuff said:


> Reinin dichotomies table helped me, are you familiar with it?



Oh, yep I've taken a look at that before. There were some dichotomies I was unsure of but I was confident about merry, constructivist, result, tactical and obstinate. Though this matches me with ESFJ which I HIGHLY doubt is my type haha.


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

TruthDismantled said:


> Oh, yep I've taken a look at that before. There were some dichotomies I was unsure of but I was confident about merry, constructivist, result, tactical and obstinate. Though this matches me with ESFJ which I HIGHLY doubt is my type haha.


I admit that it would be a pretty big mistyping if you'd now jump from ISTP to ESFJ :'D

Have you checked out this blog? It gives pretty good examples of the functions in different situations and if you are into pop culture you can check how the characters you identify with are typed and why. Might help, idk tho


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TruthDismantled said:


> Well when I say apply I mean I want to see where it fits, if it fits, by observing the world.
> 
> It's only really when I'm angry or very sure of my goals that what I value most becomes more clear and consistent, it's less wishy-washy. It becomes less hazy and I feel more purposeful and decisive. I often go to other people to ask them what would be a proper way to react to someone stealing my food, or offending me in some way for instance. I want to know that I didn't over or under-react. I would go to my friends and be like "should I have been upset that [insert name] ignored me when I asked him [insert question]". I know for instance that it wouldn't be right to get angry if my friend accidentally got a scrape on my bike. But if they fell and bent the wheel I wouldn't know whether to insist they get me a new one or respect that these accidents sometimes happen.
> 
> When I'm watching a movie and a character is getting bullied in a similar way to how I was or they are going through something I was, I kind of dissociate the two and avoid connecting them. If I was to try and help them, I probably wouldn't tell them that I've been through the same or I know how they feel. I'd try to convince them that I know what I'm talking about it and try really hard to help them out, but it's very unlikely that I'd link it with my own experience.





TruthDismantled said:


> Well I like thinking and theorizing about hypothetical situations and use Ti arguments a lot; through the form of analogies, probabilities. I was speaking to someone about how I'd approach a crime scene as a detective and I noticed that all of the analyses I said I'd carry out involved subjective logic, seeing how I could connect the pieces of information (footprints, broken window, overturned sofa for instance). I didn't once mention collecting blood samples, fingerprints, collecting evidence that can be objectively analyzed. Though maybe it was just coincidence, assuming that there wasn't enough evidence for objective logic to be available, mehh.


Now it sounding pretty INTP yes.
I had to dig a little and force a stance. 
Yes I know how that works with my INTP buddy and he is really well developed as a person.
And still I could run circles around him on a value level if I wanted.
But he is my buddy so why would I mess with him? :-/

Anyway what you are describing sounds like inferior Fe.
Tert Fe dosn't have the same fear of testing the waters so to speak in the value area.
So from this I will conclude that* the Te objective have been met. *
You are an INTP in my eyes.
Feel free to subjectively tinker further and bring in all sorts of conflated Ne objects if it strikes your fanzy. :crazy:


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

hornet said:


> Now it sounding pretty INTP yes.
> I had to dig a little and force a stance.
> Yes I know how that works with my INTP buddy and he is really well developed as a person.
> And still I could run circles around him on a value level if I wanted.
> ...


I think you're right.

I'm just a little more expressive than the typical INTP I think, more willing to Fe for the sake of keeping things easygoing and avoiding conflicts, disrupting the ambience so to speak. I'm a bit of a hypocrite though because it makes me cringe when people over-Fe and consider them shallow yet I feel kind of intelligent and proud when I can do it successfully. It makes me feel like I'm not so bad at blending in than I thought, haha. By Fe, I mean adhering to the particular social group, keeping the peace and being agreeable and receptive without necessarily agreeing with the person but not wanting a clash.

It's funny because I have an ISFP flatmate and I know her values so sometimes I'll say something mildly controversial to prod her a little, see her reaction. Though she says that I'm weird and unconventional so I get sad


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TruthDismantled said:


> I think you're right.
> 
> I'm just a little more expressive than the typical INTP I think, more willing to Fe for the sake of keeping things easygoing and avoiding conflicts, disrupting the ambience so to speak. I'm a bit of a hypocrite though because it makes me cringe when people over-Fe and consider them shallow yet I feel kind of intelligent and proud when I can do it successfully. It makes me feel like I'm not so bad at blending in than I thought, haha. By Fe, I mean adhering to the particular social group, keeping the peace and being agreeable and receptive without necessarily agreeing with the person but not wanting a clash.
> 
> It's funny because I have an ISFP flatmate and I know her values so sometimes I'll say something mildly controversial to prod her a little, see her reaction. Though she says that I'm weird and unconventional so I get sad


I'd imagine that your 6 superego would keep your Ti in a leash more than say an ego or id type.

Interesting dynamic, I would imagine she calls you unconventional to make it sting.
We ISFPs know where the soft spots are without even trying.

Knowing all the stuff I've learned here I know exactly how to traumatize anyone I meet within minutes.
Not that I would, I don't find inflicting pain on others pleasurable and only do it in self defence.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

hornet said:


> I'd imagine that your 6 superego would keep your Ti in a leash more than say an ego or id type.
> 
> Interesting dynamic, I would imagine she calls you unconventional to make it sting.
> We ISFPs know where the soft spots are without even trying.
> ...


Mehhh she gives out more than she can take. I'm too lenient, I let her have her moments of poking fun without saying anything but then I drop the hurtful insult if she goes too far. Once she didn't speak to me for about a week :dry:

My mother is an ISFP actually and we get on quite well, though she has absolutely no time for anything I find interesting.

I've noticed with my ISFP friend though that when there aren't people around she's a lot nicer and we connect in a way. Then when a couple of people are also there it isn't so friendly.

Enneagram can really confuse things and lead to a lot of mistyping I think, when you don't have a fundamental understanding of the functions especially.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TruthDismantled said:


> Mehhh she gives out more than she can take. I'm too lenient, I let her have her moments of poking fun without saying anything but then I drop the hurtful insult if she goes too far. Once she didn't speak to me for about a week :dry:
> 
> My mother is an ISFP actually and we get on quite well, though she has absolutely no time for anything I find interesting.
> 
> ...


Yes there is a lot of range for failiure when mixing it up.
Still you won't learn anything unless you jump into the water sink to the bottom and crack your egg open.
Or something like that. 

The reason it goes better without other people is that whenever other are around it can be a scramble
for the other persons attention. It is not as marked as it is with say ISFPs and ESFJs.
Then all the fun of the company drains right out for whoever is not at the centerstage.

Fi/Se and Fe/Si can't coexcist well in a social sense.
It usually ends up awkward.

I relate to punishing alphas who cross the line pretty hard.
Fi-Se is pretty hard line that way.
We will literally hurt people if we are pushed too far on our values.
ESFPs are even more hardline in that respect.
Se makes direct force a very attractive and viable solution.

Lately I've tried to evolve a bit and actually conciously use more refined methods of punishment.
I usually have to go alone someplace and rage until most of the anger has passed and I have
just enough left to be willing to implement the alternative punishment.

As for giving out more than we can take...
Remember that in the INTP and ISFP relation each have a direct line to each others PoLR.
Since society is slanted to favour Si in most cases, you could say that she is fighting with an arm tied on the back.
Remember the physical force thing, if society didn't deem it wrong, she might have bitten you or something
rather than avoided you a couple of weeks.


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

You could always check these videos to see examples of the types in real life. Maybe you see your mannerisms in one of them?


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

What I found most helpful was not looking at how I act, but how I think. We wear a lot of masks in society. Focus on how you take information in.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

Straystuff said:


> You could always check these videos to see examples of the types in real life. Maybe you see your mannerisms in one of them?


I see myself a lot in the more subdued ENFPs

I noticed in a lot of the INTj (LII) videos that they appear more calm and controlled than I often do, more still and steady in their speech. Like if you asked me a question about what it was like adapting to university I'd frown as I'm thinking, look around and kinda come to realizations while I'm there. Whereas it seems that LIIs are more kinda sure of where they're going. But this could be temperament that I'm focusing on here. I start off with a display of emotion on my face and enthusiasm and then it gets more analytical as I think about it, then I turn to something else unrelated and then kind of explain myself along that route.

I mean it's like you can see the thought processes on my face. My eyes dart around like ENTPs and I see this in them as well. I relate to them a lot, they kind of meet the energy with the other person more though, hmm. It's like when I'm on a similar energy level to someone else the expression will be like a seesaw, I'll take more of a back seat if they're stepping up the energy. They have more of a social confidence, though I in many ways turn into them once I'm comfortable. For instance when I see my closer friends across the road I wave like a moron just to embarrass them LOL  They would only return the nerdy wave if they were walking down a side road for instance.

Okay I see myself more in the Ne-doms and I've checked out about 10 videos for ENTP, ENFP, INTj and one from INFj. 

But yeah, I think all of the LIIs seemed more kind of reserved. And when they would talk about more..I dunno.. things that they consider important or that they appreciate they're good at conveying that. I find that I often feel a little awkward making things more serious, I'd make a joke about how my friend is always there for me and then say "but yeah he's a great mate at the end of the day". I see this kind of seriousness in ENFPs as well, they're kind of relaxed and jolly but you see the Fi there.


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## Straystuff (May 23, 2014)

Ok. Now check this out!  




Does anything seem familiar?


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

heartofpompeii said:


> What I found most helpful was not looking at how I act, but how I think. We wear a lot of masks in society. Focus on how you take information in.


Yeah I think I've safely established Ne and Ti, leaving ENTP and INTP. I'm just finding it difficult to properly differentiate the two. I see a lot of both in the way I think. My unusual but intriguing insights, making up commentary on programs, making up dialogue when I see a movie on mute, wondering what someone could be thinking to come up with something, hearing an explanation and instinctively knowing where the person went off track. I often see how people are interacting in the moment and get a sense of how they would be in different contexts. I often come up with "maybe this is this way because it connects with this" or "maybe they decided to approach it this way with the intention of this". 

I often use Fe to make up excuses and twist things so I look like the good guy, but only as a joke. So if I couldn't be bothered to go to the shop with someone, I'd say it's best they go alone because I'll just slow them down taking ages to decide on stuff. But I'd say it in a silly way so it wasn't exactly manipulation and they knew I was just lazy.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

Straystuff said:


> Ok. Now check this out!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I certainly relate to this, minus the hand movements unless an explanation requires the listener to visualize something. I frown a lot, kinda thinking through things, speaking quickly, going back and frowning and thinking again, then doing the same. My eyes are very expressive, eyebrows too, they always mover around lol. I'm definitely bouncy.

So I strongly relate to Ne and Si. I also shrug a huge amount and sway my head when I'm trying to decide between things lol. I've noticed in my ENFJ step-mum that she is VERY expressive when she gets energized by something haha, I try to meet her energy but it can be pretty hard if what she's talking about isn't too interesting or I'm skeptical about her conclusion. 

I also scan the environment a lot when I'm thinking, I'm not actually concentrating on what I'm looking at but it kinda serves to get my brain thinking quicker lol. I feel pretty awkward and under pressure when I speak to my dad (xSTP or ESTJ) because his gaze is very focused on me when he's talking. My eyes usually shift downwards and from left to right when I think, then they come up along the sides when I'm losing my train of thought and I'm looking for a new one haha. 

So my face is warm and expressive, changing in intensity depending on who I'm talking to, but I don't have any hand movements.


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## TruthDismantled (Jan 16, 2013)

hornet said:


> Yes there is a lot of range for failiure when mixing it up.
> Still you won't learn anything unless you jump into the water sink to the bottom and crack your egg open.
> Or something like that.
> 
> ...


Lol she was sitting next to an ISFP when I made the insult. Supposedly I crossed the line but I mean she'd insulted me for a good 10-15 mins without me saying anything. Then after the insult suddenly I'm the bad guy, her friend told me I was out of line, mehhh. 

Well yeah, we don't always see line to line haha, unless it's a 1 on 1 convo.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

TruthDismantled said:


> Lol she was sitting next to an ISFP when I made the insult. Supposedly I crossed the line but I mean she'd insulted me for a good 10-15 mins without me saying anything. Then after the insult suddenly I'm the bad guy, her friend told me I was out of line, mehhh.
> 
> Well yeah, we don't always see line to line haha, unless it's a 1 on 1 convo.


Lol well if I was insulted by some INTP in front of an ISFP buddy, I might have done the same thing.
It is pretty rare I meet other Gammas face to face so when I do I tend to want to protect the relationship.
INTPs are a dime a dozen in that respect.


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## Flame1280 (Jun 24, 2014)

hornet said:


> Don't cherry pick and jump to conclutions.
> I said if.
> 
> We don't know yet if you do follow that pattern.
> ...


Well thank you for trying to help, no jumping this time :laughing: Its been a game of ping pong jumping back and forth with the INFJ typing because that was my original conclusion. However Ni from all that I know about is a tough thing to say that I have atleast confidently, I would say I like thinking about the future in some way shape or form and like talking about it but I've never been one to actually have a long term plan or a plan at all for that matter now I know that Ni is a precieving function but if we go back to just the four letters that final P seems to be way more accurate foe me than a J (discounting the functions). I also cant really say that I have those super powerful insights that are always talked about but instead make seemingly unrelated connections between things instead. Now to Fe or Fi this is a tough one to say if I am correct in saying Fe is more comforatable with the emotions of others than I'd immidietely role out to Fi, I'll help a person almost in any situation if they come to me asking for help and will also seek to encourage and inspier friends always getting them to be the best they can be but I am never really good at truly understanding what they are feeling. I will also never follow the crowd if I think something is wrong and would try to convince others of my point of view in an attempt to get them to understand, I wouldnt party, wouldnt drink and completely avoided activities like that all through out highschool just because at some point I came to the conclusion that it was wrong to do. Also I haven't even come to a confident conclusion on the ennegram either, 9w1 also seems to fit pretty well so its tough to say.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Flame1280 said:


> Its been a game of ping pong jumping back and forth with the INFJ typing because that was my original conclusion. However Ni from all that I know about is a tough thing to say that I have atleast confidently, I would say I like thinking about the future in some way shape or form and like talking about it but I've never been one to actually have a long term plan or a plan at all for that matter now I know that Ni is a precieving function but if we go back to just the four letters that final P seems to be way more accurate foe me than a J (discounting the functions).


Argh no....
Don't fall into the damn J/P trap.
*Don't discount the functions they are what matters.*
Myers disfigured freak of a dichothomy can safely put into the woods for the wolfs to eat.



> I also cant really say that I have those super powerful insights that are always talked about but instead make seemingly unrelated connections between things instead.


Yeah isn't it strange how people like to glorify their powers of perception?
Don't worry about it.
You seem to be pretty sure how things will unfold for humanity in the long run.
That is Ni.
One tangent taken to it's inevitable end.
Ne cannot keep to anyone tangent for too long, while Ni can stay for decages.



> Now to Fe or Fi this is a tough one to say if I am correct in saying Fe is more comforatable with the emotions of others than I'd immidietely role out to Fi, I'll help a person almost in any situation if they come to me asking for help and will also seek to encourage and inspier friends always getting them to be the best they can be but I am never really good at truly understanding what they are feeling. I will also never follow the crowd if I think something is wrong and would try to convince others of my point of view in an attempt to get them to understand, I wouldnt party, wouldnt drink and completely avoided activities like that all through out highschool just because at some point I came to the conclusion that it was wrong to do. Also I haven't even come to a confident conclusion on the ennegram either, 9w1 also seems to fit pretty well so its tough to say.


You are right in not conflating helpfulness or comfort with emotion with Fe.
Fe is about what is right or wrong etichally from an objective POV.
Hence what everyone seem to agree is morally right.
Fi is concerned with morallity in a vacuum and hence can clash rather violently with Fe's more organic approach.
We can say that F reasons in values, values again trigger emotion.
You can't feel anything unless some value have been affirmed or violated.
Now I'm going to bed, but I'll probably keep at this later.


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## Flame1280 (Jun 24, 2014)

hornet said:


> You are right in not conflating helpfulness or comfort with emotion with Fe.
> Fe is about what is right or wrong etichally from an objective POV.
> Hence what everyone seem to agree is morally right.
> Fi is concerned with morallity in a vacuum and hence can clash rather violently with Fe's more organic approach.
> ...


So how can I know for sure weather or not I've got Fi or Fe, I think I'm confident enough to say that If I've got Fe its not in the primary or secondary slot for sure.


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## scenefinale (May 26, 2014)

The hands down "best" way, in my opinion, although it requires strong commitment, is to watch the HBO series The Wire. Pick out the characters with whom you identify most and look at my list.
http://personalitycafe.com/guess-type/272618-wire-someone-who-actually-knows-how-type.html

I have also done this with Breaking Bad.
http://personalitycafe.com/guess-type/272338-breaking-bad-someone-who-actually-know-how-type.html

_Those are not guesses_, despite being in the "guess the type" forum. _Those are the types_. The fact that so many on here disagree exposes just how few people on here actually know how to type correctly. Many people get hung up on the letters, don't be one of them. Throw the letters out the window. Pay attention to the functions, but of course in order to do so you need to have already have people typed correctly to examine the functions in real life. Once you get a sense of each type from the show, relate the characters to people you know in real life, you will see how spot on The Wire is in portraying the types from both bigger picture and sensing perspectives. And if you are INTP I guarantee you everything you've ever read about history/politics will make a lot more sense once you master each function and consequently each type.

Don't trust post-count.
"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." —Galileo Galilei


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Flame1280 said:


> So how can I know for sure weather or not I've got Fi or Fe, I think I'm confident enough to say that If I've got Fe its not in the primary or secondary slot for sure.


Well it is necessary with some self observation.
It is back to the question, is the worth of something an objective thing to relate to.
Or is it someting you subjectively take a stand on regardless of the rest of the worlds feelings.


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## vforverification (Jun 24, 2014)

that looks really interesting how do you use it?


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

@TruthDismantled Allow me to suggest an alternative to @hornet 's method. Identify communication problems and conflicts you've had with the people in your life. Pay extra attention to the ones you have the worst communication with. Don't think of these people as having any particular type, just focus on the event of the conflict itself. What you need to do is get to the essence of where your communication problem lies, which is not an easy task at all. Then see how, or even if, it's related to types. Tbh, I've never tried that method before but it sounds interesting and it's basically similar to what Jung did to conceive his theory. I think it could help you get rid of some of your possible misconceptions and it gets to the gut of the issue.

However, I'm kind of getting the impression that you are taking things superficially? Like, it's not that you don't care about this stuff (or do you?) but you explore concepts superficially and drop them in search of something else before you actually get to understand them. So that you basically end up with nothing solid in your hands. Hmm that could be interpreted as dominant-Ne, particularly from a Ni-dom's perspective (myself).


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