# Fi = conceals emotions?



## silph (Feb 21, 2012)

i have a love/hate relationship with mbti theory. part of the "hate" side of it comes from the fact that i come across so many contradictions in the stuff written about it (as well as contradicting my own personal experience).



on one hand, on a popular youtube channel that discusses mbti, it says that Fi conceals emotions, while Fe is expressive of their emotions.

but on the other hand, ENFPs (who have auxillary preference for Fi) are stereotyped/known to be these crazy, expressive people. (this fits me; even though i am pretty sure my Fi is a HUGELY strong preference and i have a strong un-preference for Fe -- i'm a strong individualist and i don't weigh social norms as important to me *at all*).



i'd like to hear anyone's comment on this contradiction?


----------



## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

Fi, as I seem to encounter it, isn't about actively concealing emotions per se. It's rather an effect you see in some introverted Fi preferrers, where their internal values and their introversion cooperate to make them reluctant to speak about them or question them.

Ne, on the other hand, tends to be a pretty talkative function (someone described it to me as prone to looking as a "lack of a brain-to-mouth filter" which might be a bit unfair, but not entirely wrong). This might very well compensate for the natural introversion of Fi.


----------



## Zero11 (Feb 7, 2010)

silph said:


> but on the other hand, ENFPs (who have auxillary preference for Fi) are stereotyped/known to be these crazy, expressive people. (this fits me; even though i am pretty sure my Fi is a HUGELY strong preference and i have a strong un-preference for Fe -- i'm a strong individualist and i don't weigh social norms as important to me *at all*).
> 
> i'd like to hear anyone's comment on this contradiction?


This isn´t really a contradiction here comes the mbti into play, the higher your F preference is so much stonger is the impact. And as an extravert you are more in the outer world.


----------



## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

zynthaxx said:


> Fi, as I seem to encounter it, isn't about actively concealing emotions per se. It's rather an effect you see in some introverted Fi preferrers, where their internal values and their introversion cooperate to make them reluctant to speak about them or question them.


 Hum...... I've got Fi as my tertiary and .... If I'm aware of my emotions at all, I just assume that other people can somehow "see" what I'm feeling. In reality I'm probably pulling a poker-face, but to me it feels as if my feelings are totally obvious and all over the place. It's not so much that I try to conceal anything, it's more a lack of awareness of how I come across to others. Also, I don't have much energy for expressing emotion. E.g. Sometimes my ENFJ boss asks me to do something and I say "Yeah, sure." in a flat voice and she replies "DO YOU MIND!?" in a really expressive way. I don't even understand why she asks me twice because I've already said yes. Hum.... anyway... I'm confused about F (both Fi and Fe), because I'm not sure how their definitions relate to the phenomena that we normally call 'emotions' or 'feelings'. Are Fi and Fe feelings themselves, or are they a processing mechanism that filters feelings?


----------



## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Emotional expression has nothing to do with anything other than peoples' choices. End of story. This is not remotely related to the F function. Feeling is evaluation. Acting crazy and exuberant can be anyone. In how Fe and Fi types reference evaluations, the Fi types look to inner ideals and basically ignore the face value approaches to evaluating the outside world that can be gleaned from accounting for how others are responding from a perspective of face value (they may take notice, but this doesn't factor into how they make decisions conciously, primarily in those who have stronly habituated Fi as a preference).


----------



## Reicheru (Sep 24, 2011)

my personal understanding is that Fi conceals values, not emotions. they are internal. Fe is more expressive of ethical judgement. this is why those with dom/aux Fe are *Judgers* and those with dom/aux Fi are* Percievers*.


----------



## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

FlaviaGemina said:


> Hum...... I've got Fi as my tertiary and .... If I'm aware of my emotions at all, I just assume that other people can somehow "see" what I'm feeling. In reality I'm probably pulling a poker-face, but to me it feels as if my feelings are totally obvious and all over the place. It's not so much that I try to conceal anything, it's more a lack of awareness of how I come across to others. Also, I don't have much energy for expressing emotion. E.g. Sometimes my ENFJ boss asks me to do something and I say "Yeah, sure." in a flat voice and she replies "DO YOU MIND!?" in a really expressive way. I don't even understand why she asks me twice because I've already said yes. Hum.... anyway... I'm confused about F (both Fi and Fe), because I'm not sure how their definitions relate to the phenomena that we normally call 'emotions' or 'feelings'. Are Fi and Fe feelings themselves, or are they a processing mechanism that filters feelings?


Mechanisms. What you're talking about here would definitely be inferior Se, not anything related to the feeling function. The S functions would account for the actual expression and considerations of perception of emotion, among other things (being able to physically feel emotion would certainly fall into the S realm). What conflicts you seem to be speaking of here would be Fi vs. Fe, basically (so, as a result, you seem to be playing up Te a ton because you just don't care about appealing to factors of the situation). This has nothing to do with your feeling function being "tertiary" (frankly, I don't think these labels even exist IRL). If your feelings feel obvious and all-over-the-place, this would probably reflect poor rationalization of them through an S function (perceptual sensation). The F functions are essentially the T functions rating in terms of significance that can be established through focusing on meaning, rather than conceptual consistency (so, the F functions try to use inconsistency to unravel significance in anything, rather than use consistency to unite or divide what's considered to be fact).


----------



## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Mechanisms. What you're talking about here would definitely be inferior Se, not anything related to the feeling function. The S functions would account for the actual expression and considerations of perception of emotion, among other things (being able to physically feel emotion would certainly fall into the S realm). What conflicts you seem to be speaking of here would be Fi vs. Fe, basically (so, as a result, you seem to be playing up Te a ton because you just don't care about appealing to factors of the situation). This has nothing to do with your feeling function being "tertiary" (frankly, I don't think these labels even exist IRL). If your feelings feel obvious and all-over-the-place, this would probably reflect poor rationalization of them through an S function (perceptual sensation). The F functions are essentially the T functions rating in terms of significance that can be established through focusing on meaning, rather than conceptual consistency (so, the F functions try to use inconsistency to unravel significance in anything, rather than use consistency to unite or divide what's considered to be fact).


I'm not sure I understand any of this, but you are certainly right that I am unable to physically feel emotions most of the time.


----------



## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

FlaviaGemina said:


> I'm not sure I understand any of this, but you are certainly right that I am unable to physically feel emotions most of the time.


Well, this wouldn't directly result from being an inferior Se type, but for whatever reason, repressing it might make emotional experiences nebulous. I mean, sensation is concerned with the 5 senses on a fundamental level, so feeling emotion to legitimize it's existence and hold over you can perhaps be wonky, although being an inferior S type wouldn't be a end-all explanation for this, just a possible factor in your momentary experiences (like not being able to rationalize well the degree to which your presentation of emotion may or may not be obvious to others from a sensory perception perspective.) Most of this stuff would depend on how you've learned to rationalize emotions in an ego syntonic way, which has nothing to do with type and enneagram (most of emotion is contained and dealt with separately from the ego, although it can be controlled in ways to avoid hard to the ego or improve ego boosts people get). Yes, I'm speaking from a psychological point of view on everything here.


----------



## Inguz (Mar 10, 2012)

I'm not concealing my emotions (as it suggests that I do it on purpose), it's just that they are internal. I express it the best I can or want.


----------



## FiddleheadFern (Aug 20, 2012)

zynthaxx said:


> Fi, as I seem to encounter it, isn't about actively concealing emotions per se. It's rather an effect you see in some introverted Fi preferrers, where their internal values and their introversion cooperate to make them reluctant to speak about them or question them.
> 
> Ne, on the other hand, tends to be a pretty talkative function (someone described it to me as prone to looking as a "lack of a brain-to-mouth filter" which might be a bit unfair, but not entirely wrong). This might very well compensate for the natural introversion of Fi.


You, personally? I thought ISTP was a Ni user, as opposed to Ne, and only a little bit at that... *confusion*


----------



## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

I've seen bunches of expressive, flamboyant ENFPs, but I rarely hear them discussing their feelings during such whacky sessions of Ne-Fi.


----------



## saffron (Jan 30, 2011)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> I've seen bunches of expressive, flamboyant ENFPs, but I rarely hear them discussing their feelings during such whacky sessions of Ne-Fi.


I agree, at least in my personal experience and anecdotally with other ENFPs. It's one thing to say that you *love* [insert band, movie, country, author, a quality etc...] It's another thing to fully reveal your emotions, negative and positive regarding a personal situation or issue. I have only a couple of people that I would share that information with. Though I do think that ENFPs can be masters at sharing enough to get others to feel comfortable to open up so that we can read them more deeply or accurately. It's usually benevolent in intent. And this is a very broad generalization again, based on my personal and anecdotal experiences in real life.


----------



## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

FiddleheadFern said:


> You, personally? I thought ISTP was a Ni user, as opposed to Ne, and only a little bit at that... *confusion*


I encounter it, yes. Even though I'm an ISTP, I'm not a _complete_ recluse.


----------



## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> I've seen bunches of expressive, flamboyant ENFPs, but I rarely hear them discussing their feelings during such whacky sessions of Ne-Fi.


This exactly. 

I do not like to share my deep emotions. I like to process my feelings alone. Once I've made a decision about values and how I feel, I may use Te to express certain things, but it's still not my emotions.

I definitely don't like to cry in front of others (don't want people to feel sorry for me) and I don't like to emote anger in front of others. Actually, I internalize anger. It doesn't really go outwards. Te can go outwards, however.

My private feelings can help me define my values. That is why it is important for me to be alone at times so I can figure out how I feel about something. I tend to suspend my own personal feelings when I'm around others. Ne is my comfort zone so I can stay pretty damn objective for a long period of time. And if I'm talking to someone, I will use Fi to understand how they feel. I think "How would I feel if I was that person?" so it's still not about experiencing my own feelings. It's rare for me to have personal feelings around others. It has to go through quite a huge process first. That's why I find it so weird when someone projects their own feelings onto me.


----------



## pmj85 (Jul 31, 2010)

zynthaxx said:


> I encounter it, yes. Even though I'm an ISTP, I'm not a _complete_ recluse.


My oldest and perhaps even closest friend is an ISTP - I'm constantly telling him how annoyingly well rounded he is.


----------



## Type B (Nov 9, 2011)

Well, I'm an ISFP, which means I have dominant Fi. I would have to say YES to Fi = conceals emotions. 

There are a lot of emotions and feelings I keep hidden at will. Other times, I have trouble expressing them. I'd be a liar if I said my Fi makes me expressive. As you can already tell it's quite the opposite.


----------



## FiddleheadFern (Aug 20, 2012)

zynthaxx said:


> I encounter it, yes. Even though I'm an ISTP, I'm not a _complete_ recluse.


Whoops...I thought you were saying that when you personally employ Ne, but now I see you were saying you've observed it in others. :doh: Yeah, I've personally not met a lot of ISTPs that weren't generally well-liked and friendly. :happy:


----------



## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

FiddleheadFern said:


> Whoops...I thought you were saying that when you personally employ Ne, but now I see you were saying you've observed it in others. :doh: Yeah, I've personally not met a lot of ISTPs that weren't generally well-liked and friendly. :happy:


No problem.


----------



## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

FiddleheadFern said:


> Whoops...I thought you were saying that when you personally employ Ne, but now I see you were saying you've observed it in others. :doh: Yeah, I've personally not met a lot of ISTPs that weren't generally well-liked and friendly. :happy:


Wow. I've only met the friendly well-liked type. But then again I was in a relationship with them, too. Lol. They're sort of my kryptonite.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I've found that I hide my emotions from many Fe users since they are prone to "emotional abuse" (judgement).
I have the ability to convey my emotions quite strongly, but I shut them down around Fe out of fear.
Only lately have I recognized what is going on and how much conflict I have with Fe on many levels.
Every time I try to loosen up some Fe user comes along to shut me down.
Since what I express is based in Fi values it kinda drives Fe users up the wall.
They can't accept me being me.

Now in addition to that Si and Te doms also have suppressive effects on me,
so I often keep lots of stuff inside, until I explode like a ticking bomb.
That has more to do with my 9w1 than anything. XD
If you wanna understand emotions/motivations you need to understand the Enneagram.
Looking for emotions in jungian-feeling or more prescicely *reasoning about values*, 
will get you nowhere.


----------



## MmmmKoolAid (Aug 31, 2012)

i don't really know much about these functions but i think supressing emotions has a lot to do with life experiences. some people are rewarded during childhood for expressing their emotions, and some are punished and taught that it's not okay to do.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

MmmmKoolAid said:


> i don't really know much about these functions but i think supressing emotions has a lot to do with life experiences. some people are rewarded during childhood for expressing their emotions, and some are punished and taught that it's not okay to do.


I agree, it really depends on the people surrounding the person.
Children don't repress their emotions initially, 
only when life have thrown them some curve balls do they become more guarded.


----------



## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

hornet said:


> I've found that I hide my emotions from many Fe users since they are prone to "emotional abuse" (judgement).
> I have the ability to convey my emotions quite strongly, but I shut them down around Fe out of fear.
> Only lately have I recognized what is going on and how much conflict I have with Fe on many levels.
> Every time I try to loosen up some Fe user comes along to shut me down.
> ...


I often find myself around people who pride themselves in not being at all "uptight", and who are very "honest" and open about themselves in every detail (details that I never asked for them to share and frankly wish they would keep to themselves). I'm a very private person so I end up retreating further into myself, especially since those people seem very gossipy and talk as much about others (and not usually in a kind way) as they do about themselves. They do have a way of shutting me down. They seem frustrated or almost insulted that I don't share the kinds of things about myself that they do about themselves. Maybe they find me suspicious or something (one of them has likened me to a "secret agent"), but I actually find them quite judgmental which is one more reason I close myself off to them. I think some of them are very insecure, and I think their attempts to share so much of themselves is like a counter-phobic attempt to make themselves appear _un_-insecure.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Mizmar said:


> I often find myself around people who pride themselves in not being at all "uptight", and who are very "honest" and open about themselves in every detail (details that I never asked for them to share and frankly wish they would keep to themselves). I'm a very private person so I end up retreating further into myself, especially since those people seem very gossipy and talk as much about others (and not usually in a kind way) as they do about themselves. They do have a way of shutting me down. They seem frustrated or almost insulted that I don't share the kinds of things about myself that they do about themselves. Maybe they find me suspicious or something (one of them has likened me to a "secret agent"), but I actually find them quite judgmental which is one more reason I close myself off to them. I think some of them are very insecure, and I think their attempts to share so much of themselves is like a counter-phobic attempt to make themselves appear _un_-insecure.


Yeah, some of this stuff might be related to the Enneagram too.
When you say counter-phobic are you implying that they are type 6?
I'm not good enough with the Enneagram to talk about stuff like this in those terms.

I know the type you are referring to and to me it seems that they from a Jungian perspective try to align with
the collective Fe object and share all actions in an attempt to merge with the object.
Se-Fe Fe-Ne loopy people tend to do this a lot, as they can't seem to separate them self from the collective object.
Any internal withholding of information to them is like heresy to the sacred object.

I totally agree on your take on the situation regardless on how we represent what is going on in terms of typology.
It really used to bug me a lot when I was put in social situations like that before.
Now I have learned to avoid them or at least deflect attention from myself. 

If I'm forced on the issue, I've already typed the persons involved and I will just push their inferiority complex (or something similar)
to make me seem like an unpleasant person to have a verbal sparring match with. }:-D


----------



## FiddleheadFern (Aug 20, 2012)

pinkrasputin said:


> Wow. I've only met the friendly well-liked type. But then again I was in a relationship with them, too. Lol. They're sort of my kryptonite.


I used a lot of negatives in that sentence, lol...what I was saying is that all I've met are both friendly and well liked. I'm married to one, actually. :kitteh:


----------



## Mizmar (Aug 12, 2009)

hornet said:


> Yeah, some of this stuff might be related to the Enneagram too.
> When you say counter-phobic are you implying that they are type 6?


The individuals I had in mind when I wrote that sentence about counterphobia are, I believe, Sixes. But I certainly don't mean to imply that the behavior I described above is a "Six thing". I'm sure a lot Sixes would be more like you or I in that situation (more private, self-concealing). One individual in my life I believe is a Two and, for her, it seems to be more about blowing off steam. I wouldn't mind that so much except that a lot of it is TMI and, worse still, she seems to expect me to reciprocate and share my own issues with her. That's just not gonna happen--certainly not with someone as gossipy and critical (in an unacknowledged sort of way) as she is.



> I know the type you are referring to and to me it seems that they from a Jungian perspective try to align with
> the collective Fe object and share all actions in an attempt to merge with the object.
> Se-Fe Fe-Ne loopy people tend to do this a lot, as they can't seem to separate them self from the collective object.
> Any internal withholding of information to them is like heresy to the sacred object.


I've noticed they seem more invested in the world of celebrities, and that's another way in which I feel at odds with them. They derive a lot of amusement from ridiculing or complaining about whatever star most recently made a fool of themselves. I feel comparably more indifferent to all that. I mean, just because someone is famous, does that mean I have to find them interesting enough to talk or even think about? (I wonder if my perspective makes me a "snob" in some people's eyes.)



> Now I have learned to avoid them or at least deflect attention from myself.


 Yeah, I'm pretty good at deflecting attention but the act of doing so gets draining pretty quick.



> If I'm forced on the issue, I've already typed the persons involved and I will just push their inferiority complex (or something similar)


I push them, but only very gently--I don't want to have to deal with any kind of dramatic reaction on their part.


----------



## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Mizmar said:


> The individuals I had in mind when I wrote that sentence about counterphobia are, I believe, Sixes. But I certainly don't mean to imply that the behavior I described above is a "Six thing". I'm sure a lot Sixes would be more like you or I in that situation (more private, self-concealing). One individual in my life I believe is a Two and, for her, it seems to be more about blowing off steam. I wouldn't mind that so much except that a lot of it is TMI and, worse still, she seems to expect me to reciprocate and share my own issues with her. That's just not gonna happen--certainly not with someone as gossipy and critical (in an unacknowledged sort of way) as she is.


Heh... I know what you mean...
I can handle it when I'm stable and have what I believe to be my 8 wing on hand.
But if it collapses into 5 all is lost and I retreat to read up on JCF.
Gossip drives me up the walls, I can't imagine why anyone would find it fun to talk about others in such ways.

I sometimes put traps into some gossipers mouths to get the message across.
I'll tell them that I like someone that I know it will never work out with, but there could bona fide attratction, 
they will run over and tell them that the very next day in a way that forces rejection without me asking them to.
When they bring me the bad news I smile a genuine smile, and say "I know...it was for the better!"
They will be so tripped up that they will not know up from down anymore.
And will stop trying to intervene on your behalf as they don't feel they understand you well enough to "do the right thing".
Conciously they want to help you, but subconsciously they like to mess things up for everyone else.
These are the same people you thank for every success you have no matter if they are involved.
You shall know your enemy from the look of pain in his eyes when he believes he has benefited you.
Oh well enough rant from me on this... :-/



> I've noticed they seem more invested in the world of celebrities, and that's another way in which I feel at odds with them. They derive a lot of amusement from ridiculing or complaining about whatever star most recently made a fool of themselves. I feel comparably more indifferent to all that. I mean, just because someone is famous, does that mean I have to find them interesting enough to talk or even think about? (I wonder if my perspective makes me a "snob" in some people's eyes.)


Ah pop-culture, I never got that.
I've only recently started watching interviews with stars to understand typing better.
I don't care who does who or who divorced who.
It won't help my life in any way.





> Yeah, I'm pretty good at deflecting attention but the act of doing so gets draining pretty quick.


Hmm yes I can see that, I dunno how you do it, but I give very short answers.
And deliberately misinterpret the question to mean something that lies in a very concrete factual realm.
The more boring and irrelevant to what they wanted the better.
Here is where knowledge of cognitive functions come in handy.
Ni gets Si
Si gets Ni
Ne gets Se
Se gets Ne
Ti gets Fi
Fi gets Ti
Te gets Fe
Fe gets Te
They will drop that question like it was burning them.



> I push them, but only very gently--I don't want to have to deal with any kind of dramatic reaction on their part.


Heh yeah I know what you mean, when I'm down the last thing I want is drama.
When I'm up drama is kinda fun since it is easily controlled by the least emotionally invested party.
But as I said before, it is more easy to bore people away than scare them away, cause they might stand up and fight.
Being pushed in the inferior is scary, boring someone with their daemon is a surefire way 
to make the other part try to find ways to help you end the interaction.
The lower down in the shadow you go the faster you push them away.


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

I cannot hide my feelings, no matter how hard I try. The more effort I put into it, the more I fail. I am extremely expressive and I show my feelings naturally. I may as well be transparent. It annoyed me for years that I was unable to hide my feelings but I have learned to accept that this who I am.
It was explained to me that this is known as an "artistic temperament."
The only way that I can process feelings alone is by writing them out in my journal.
Even with that, I still need to be around other people. I need to know that I am not disconnected from the world.
I am Fi dominant. I think that has more to do with my value system than with my emotions, however.
When I did the MBTI Step II, I learned that expressiveness was part of the I/E continuum, rather than T/F. I came across as an introvert who was uncharacteristically very expressive (an extraverted trait). Hence my own I/E confusion.


----------



## BooksandButterflies (Jul 26, 2012)

I honestly don't know. My family says I'm expressive, that I wear my heart on my sleeve. However, at work for example, if my boss yells at me, I'll do this little pep talk in my head. _"Don't cry! Dont give him that satisfaction!" _And I don't! So, maybe my answer is yes and no!


----------



## Knight_In_Rags (Mar 11, 2012)

silph said:


> on one hand, on a popular youtube channel that discusses mbti, it says that Fi conceals emotions, while Fe is expressive of their emotions.


Fi doesn't conceal emotions. The YouTube channel is mistaken. The judgment function's attitudes don't direct emotions in or out. Facing in or out only has to do with the source of psychological energy and what the Feeling function's judgments are based on.


----------



## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Type B said:


> Well, I'm an ISFP, which means I have dominant Fi. I would have to say YES to Fi = conceals emotions.
> 
> There are a lot of emotions and feelings I keep hidden at will. Other times, I have trouble expressing them. I'd be a liar if I said my Fi makes me expressive. As you can already tell it's quite the opposite.


This is me in a nutshell. Not only do in not show much emotion, i don't feel its necessary . Fi will try and express emo in order to be heard, although it's only shallow surface stuff, not what is really going on internally. I keep the real stuff buried deep for those i really trust or love. I've gotten better at expressing my emotions with people i'm really close with, yet at the same time i know i'm not articulating exactly how i'm really feeling. My family/trusted friends and husband are an exception to that rule, everyone else is either assuming or guessing.


----------

