# Do NFs really have such a rose coloured view of humanity, or can they be cynical?



## nakkinaama (Jun 20, 2012)

:blushed:

Is that the orgasm face?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

I definitely know cynical NFs. It's not a psychological imperative that they have any rose-colored view of humanity. I know a cynical ENFJ (my former choir teacher) and a cynical ENFP (my former world history teacher) who were both cynical people - they were definitely both enneagram 6s also (6s tend to be the most cynical people as far as I've noticed).


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## Planisphere (Apr 24, 2012)

I know NFs that think of the world in an optimistic way. However, the ones that left a lasting imprint on me were the ones that saw life as one big hell. It's exactly how I view life now, although I have optimism that it can be better for me. I have a lot of doubts if it can be better for others though. Depends on a variety of factors I'm not going to mention because people would rather have a comforting lie than an inconvenient truth. So since I'm tired of trying to help others, I'm just going to focus on making my own life better - preferably helping one other person too, but the verdict on whether or not I'll be successful there is still out.

Good luck to you all in breaking free of your miserable lives - you INFx's in particular. Lots of respect there for you guys (and I could toss some crumbs to the ENFs, but they tend to bite me when I try to give them respect T_T).


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## Le Beau Coeur (Jan 30, 2011)

I'm surprised by this question as of course anyone _can_ be cynical.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

You don't have to be an NF to have a rose coloured view of humanity, and you don't have to be an NT to be cynical.


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## Closet Extrovert (Mar 11, 2009)

I can be cynical sometimes...especially when I start silently observing people... :dry:


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## StellarTwirl (Jul 1, 2012)

My view leans more rose-colored, because I think of the potential of individual people, within the context of their lives. 

"Humanity" ... "nation" ... "race" ... to me, all of that is meaningless. I'm looking at this woman or that man, and I believe that people are more than the worst things about them. 


If any cynicism-tomatoes start soaring, I'll just snatch one mid-flight and give it a chomp. :laughing:


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## CompassRose (Jul 25, 2011)

I think NF's might tend to start off with "rosy-colored glasses," but depending on their life experiences (disappointment, betrayal--INFJ's at least take these very hard), they end up becoming a lot more cynical and less trusting when it comes to people. 

But you can be "cynical" in this way and still be an *idealist,* which, if I remember correctly, is a trait often ascribed to NF's. You can be wary of people, trust no one, not believe in happy endings, and think the world is absolutely going to pot, yet STILL believe in right and wrong and have a commitment to always doing what is right. Even if you are brutally honest with yourself about the harshness of the world, you can still believe life has meaning--and then strive to do something meaningful with your own life. You can aspire to ideals without believing the world around you is ideal at all.


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## Christie42476 (May 25, 2012)

CompassRose said:


> I think NF's might tend to start off with "rosy-colored glasses," but depending on their life experiences (disappointment, betrayal--INFJ's at least take these very hard), they end up becoming a lot more cynical and less trusting when it comes to people.
> 
> But you can be "cynical" in this way and still be an *idealist,* which, if I remember correctly, is a trait often ascribed to NF's. You can be wary of people, trust no one, not believe in happy endings, and think the world is absolutely going to pot, yet STILL believe in right and wrong and have a commitment to always doing what is right. Even if you are brutally honest with yourself about the harshness of the world, you can still believe life has meaning--and then strive to do something meaningful with your own life. You can aspire to ideals without believing the world around you is ideal at all.


Beautifully stated.


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## wisdom (Dec 31, 2008)

I agree with the claim that ENFPs have the most rose-colored outlook. Because, in contrast to INFPs, they are not usually subjected to as harsh treatment by society and also don't have the extreme idealism that easily leads to cynicism. Also, unlike INFPs, ENFPs are technically one of the irrational types - and, in my personal book, extreme optimism is irrational. Finally, ENFPs usually want to come across as upbeat, so they often push down bad feelings they do have, leading to "everything will be great" kind of self-talk


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## BeauGarcon (May 11, 2011)

Laguna said:


> healthy NF vs. unhealthy is a big difference
> 
> mature vs. immature
> 
> I think natural NF tendency is "glass if half full."


Liking cheesy angel pictures is more unhealthy to me than having a cynical or dark view of humanity.


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

I'm a freaking optimist about people, I don't care that I'm not an NF in any way! I find that so called "cynicism" (even though I am a cynic; an optimistic one, though!) feels more like "Assume that everybody wants to twirl their mustaches and SCREW OVER ALL THE PEOPLE". Even if you are feeling very cold about people, at least people would enjoy the _feeling_ that they are doing something right, would they not? Even if they delude themselves into thinking that their bad actions are good, do they not have decent intentions?

It's easy to demonize people who do stupid or shortsided or bad things. It's harder to see them as people who had honest intentions that got misdirected or twisted. The person who gobbles up energy and throws away perfectly good stuff to landfills, might not be the most admirable guy, but he probably felt like he had higher priorities. Sometimes the reasons for these are dumb but they are human just like you.

I remain optimistic for humanity's future. We're developing the most amazing ways to innovate despite the current world issues. Right now I'm balancing G-U base pairs in a free RNA folding game called eteRNA, where there's about 150 other people online right now. At first you might think it's a silly little science game; you begin by trying to replicate real life shapes. But the top ranked players proceed to the lab portion of the game, where they create solutions for entirely new shapes scientists have dreamed up, and must conform with real life constrictions so that real RNA can fold into them. That's right; the best solutions to the puzzles of the week are formulated in a real laboratory. And because of this design contest, numerous new laws about how RNA works have been discovered. How could that not look beautiful for the outlook of science in the next few decades?

Boo hoo, the Earth was better before we came along? Who had the time to enjoy that beauty before we had fire = more calories available to thinking = looking up at the stars and going "shit man, that's beautiful". It's pure pragmatics in the animal kingdom. There's a beauty to how it all works, sure, but there's also a beauty to how human society works too. Either way, we're here. Let's stop moaning about the what if of us not being here and do what we can. It's not your fault or my fault that we are humans.


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## Laguna (Mar 21, 2012)

BeauGarcon said:


> Liking cheesy angel pictures is more unhealthy to me than having a cynical or dark view of humanity.


LOL
to each his own


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## Blickwinkel (May 15, 2012)

My INFJ friend used to be very cynical. I'm usually the one to show him the brighter side of things. He's a lot less cynical now, but he definitely doesn't have a rose colored view of humanity.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Owfin said:


> I'm a freaking optimist about people, I don't care that I'm not an NF in any way! I find that so called "cynicism" (even though I am a cynic; an optimistic one, though!) feels more like "Assume that everybody wants to twirl their mustaches and SCREW OVER ALL THE PEOPLE". Even if you are feeling very cold about people, at least people would enjoy the _feeling_ that they are doing something right, would they not? Even if they delude themselves into thinking that their bad actions are good, do they not have decent intentions?
> 
> It's easy to demonize people who do stupid or shortsided or bad things. It's harder to see them as people who had honest intentions that got misdirected or twisted. The person who gobbles up energy and throws away perfectly good stuff to landfills, might not be the most admirable guy, but he probably felt like he had higher priorities. Sometimes the reasons for these are dumb but they are human just like you.
> 
> ...


Edit: I take back what I said before the edit.

Assumed things and got carried away.


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## SkyRunner (Jun 30, 2012)

I don't think all NF's see the world as a beautiful, wonderful place. I like most like to see the good in things but they recognize the bad. NF's just may like to focus more on the good or have a hard time accepting the harsh reality of the world. Also they often like to live in a fantasy world of their own making. They like writing, art, video games, just things to escape reality and slip into a better world. Not saying they are not in tune with the real world, they probably just prefer fantasy better. Again, that's not all NF's, only some of them.

I would say it varies on the individual. Personality types are just generalized descriptions of someone's personality. They can't have a million different ones to fit each person but the MGTI is pretty accurate I think. But not everything will fit exactly, it rarely does. It depends of you, your experiences, people around you, your environment, biology, so many things and personality types can change.

The main point of this is it will all depend on the NF.


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## EmmaFontaine (Feb 26, 2012)

As an outside observer of two NF family members, I would say that the ones I know often pick up and dwell on the bad things, and then proceed to get hurt. They wish, they hope, they long for good, but they're too busy wondering about things people say and do around them to notice the good. And if someone says something nice to them, they often think about it too much and then don't believe it to be honest, so they never get what they want.


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## kryten5786 (Aug 13, 2010)

here is a cynical, optimist infj male. yes, we're not angelic, emo.. crying wusses. some of us NF's (infj men in particular) can take life by the horn, i think this is one messed up world but still deep down (sometimes really deep down) hope things get better and will work towards a better end.... even if we're griping all the way to the finish. "rose colored view of humanity" hahaha sure... maybe when i was 10.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

I know tons of cynical Fs - this stereotype comes from behaviorist stereotypes of people viewing Fs like Pollyanna - honestly, aux. and tert. F types aren't really that easy to discern from each other IRL - even at a far distance, the T doms and F doms aren't easy to tell apart either, until you get to know them and their reasoning styles better. This stuff isn't remotely obvious, so stereotypes aren't serving to help one grasp type in any way by denying this reality.


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## Chela (Aug 17, 2011)

WildWolf711 said:


> I don't think all NF's see the world as a beautiful, wonderful place. I like most like to see the good in things but they recognize the bad. NF's just may like to focus more on the good or have a hard time accepting the harsh reality of the world...I would say it varies on the individual. Personality types are just generalized descriptions of someone's personality.
> The main point of this is it will all depend on the NF.


I agree with this. For me, I kind of struggle with how I see the world. I am kind of cynical, but that cynicism comes from the fact that I wish the world was one thing (in short, a nicer, more considerate place) and most often it's not. So, I've kind of urged myself to see the world as a harsher place. I guess to try and illustrate, say I make plans with a friend who can often be flaky. When we make the plans, I just kind of assume she might bail on me. Obviously I wish she valued me and our friendship as much as I value them, but I know what she like, so I convince myself to expect the worst. But it sucks, and I'm always secretly hoping in the back of my mind that she, or anyone, will surprise me and do the thing I desperately wish they would do.


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