# ISTP or ESTP?



## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

The title says it. I'm not really sure if I'm an ISTP or ESTP. Any tips on determining that? I love meeting new people, and I rather like talking to them. Another thing that's made me question this is that I don't feel similar to the other ISTPs in my life. Don't get me wrong, I connect with them, but my convictions are generally not as strong as theirs. I look at them and I think, "Yeah, they're pretty similar people." But I've never had the deep introversion that they've got. I can be skeptical or cynical about things, but never as much as those folks. I've also found it increasingly difficult to enjoy spending time by myself. I still enjoy it, but it's not as great as it used to be. Spending time by myself just makes me feel lazy now, which I don't like. I want to get out and do stuff every day. What do you guys think? Any tips for figuring this out?


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## redneck15 (Mar 21, 2011)

You say you don't seem like the ISTPs in your life. You aren't the same person, so how extreme do you consider these differences? If you know ESTPs, are the differences between you and them more or less clear than compared to the ISTPs you know?

Also, are you sure the ISTPs you know are ISTPs? That is, did you type them, or if they typed themselves, how did they do it?

MBTI and all Jungian archetypal systems are not scientifically validated. They are for the most part not empirically supported. They are best used as a descriptive terminology which can make you aware of certain differences between people, and words for expressing those differences. If you can develop a rough idea of each type in your head and use this as a guide, so much the better. If not, perhaps Jungian terminology is too different from the way you view people to be useful _for you._ 

Just some thoughts . . .


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## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

I can't say that I know any ESTPs. And yes, I am sure that the ISTPs in my life are ISTPs. I've had them take the test to confirm this, and they agreed with the results. And I understand that MBTI is not scientifically validated. To honest, if I'd believed it to be bunk, I would've known that a long time ago, and my interest would've been placed elsewhere. But that's not the case. I'm still exploring it and finding what I can get out of it, but I don't have one specific purpose determined. It's a handy tool to better understand myself and others, regardless of whether or not it's scientifically validated. But I appreciate that you've asked these questions. It's kind of like a check to see that I've got everything in line, so thank you.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

There's several clues here that point towards ESTP. Just going off your post:



NordicTrail said:


> love meeting new people, and I rather like talking to them.


While ISTPs are capable of this and every person is different etc. etc., just going by typing, it obviously leans towards extroverted.



> "Yeah, they're pretty similar people." But I've never had the deep introversion that they've got.


It sounds like you're not likely to relate to Ti-dom.



> I want to get out and do stuff every day.


It sounds like you may relate to Se-dom.

Ti-Se or Se-Ti? It gets down to which one is dominant. Which function you feel is your primary mode of living. For example, I am an ISFP. Being Fi-dom, Fi is to me as a fish is to the water it breathes and drinks 24/7. Auxiliary Se still plays a huge role in my engagement with the world but I would not consider it dominant. I would say my Se serves my Fi.

You may find this useful:



Elaminopy said:


> (from the same people that typed me as ESTP)
> 
> A common misconception about Introversion vs. Extraversion is that Extraverts are social, prefer parties and constant social interaction and love to be the center of attention, while Introverts are shy and prefer a good book to the company of others, preferring a quiet atmosphere. While this may be the common definition of social Extraversion and Introversion in our culture, it is *not at all* the definition of a psychological Introvert or Extravert and *does not* match with Jung's or Myers-Briggs' definitions of I/E.
> 
> ...


ISTP, primarily living through Ti, would sift information through introverted judging Ti, inside themselves first, then incorporate Se. ESTP, primarily living through extroverted perceiving Se, would engage with the outside world for information first, then incorporate Ti. ISTP is the Heads-Up Display, ESTP is the Sonar.


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## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

I definitely engage Ti, but I know when I do. I think Se just kind of happens -- I don't really get to control whether it's "on" or "off". But I understand it. It's not something foreign like Ni or Ne, both of which I struggle to understand. But I realize that I'm engaging Ti right now to explain myself, but it gets old after a while, which I think could be a hint that it's my auxiliary function. The explanation you've posted definitely makes me see myself more as ESTP. I look to others for explanations, then I think it over to understand it a bit more thoroughly. And now, I've realized that I can be emotional, and I can explain myself to others quite easily. I'd just prefer not to, unless that person is close to me. I will confide in select people, but by no means do I wear my heart on my sleeve. I think I'd struggle a bit more with all of that stuff if I were ISTP.


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

Just by your writing style I'm going to say ISTP over ESTP. ESTPs have a more laid back writing style, quick to the point, more like colloquial speech, not always perfect with punctuation and grammar, and don't often use words like "cynical" and "increasingly difficult" and "scientifically validated". I'm not saying they can't, as ESTPs are usually incredibly smart with dominant Se and secondary Ti, but they usually don't care to spend time making sure everything is spelled correctly or written in a neat paragraph. I would say your writing style is more like an ISTP. ISTPs have dominant Ti and (among other reasons) are more likely to write with correct grammar and full sentences, etc etc.

Just a quick thought, hope I helped 

(Actually your writing style reminds me of a dominant iNtuitive more than anything..)


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## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

That's quite interesting, granted of course that there probably are a few things that seem to be rather exclusive to writing that make it a bit different than speech. For me, I write like this because communication over a medium like this isn't exactly the quickest, so it makes the most sense to me that I fully explain myself and do so properly, as I'd think that other folks would find it rather pleasant. I guess it's all about presentation, in a sense. I suppose as far as word usage goes, and spelling for that matter, that all rather is quite Ti, but it goes in hand nicely with Se. It's nice to be able to describe the exact qualities of something through speech and/or text. I've always been a rather keen speller. Writing style, of course, is rather quite different from speech or body language. I'm very laid back in person.



cata.lyst.rawr said:


> (Actually your writing style reminds me of a dominant iNtuitive more than anything..)


I'm not sure why, but I chuckled a bit when a saw this. Why's that?


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

NordicTrail said:


> That's quite interesting, granted of course that there probably are a few things that seem to be rather exclusive to writing that make it a bit different than speech. For me, I write like this because communication over a medium like this isn't exactly the quickest, so it makes the most sense to me that I fully explain myself and do so properly, as I'd think that other folks would find it rather pleasant. I guess it's all about presentation, in a sense. I suppose as far as word usage goes, and spelling for that matter, that all rather is quite Ti, but it goes in hand nicely with Se. It's nice to be able to describe the exact qualities of something through speech and/or text. I've always been a rather keen speller. Writing style, of course, is rather quite different from speech or body language. I'm very laid back in person.


You should browse around the ESTP forum and get an idea for how they generally write. I love the ESTP forum lol, it's like the joke around hangout forum. 



NordicTrail said:


> I'm not sure why, but I chuckled a bit when a saw this. Why's that?


Intuitives are generally comfortable with written speech, spelling comes naturally to them, they're described as "book smart". They're "wordy", where as Sensors are more to the point and don't like messing around with blah blah blah. 

The way you write reminds me of an

xNTx or ISTx (or maybe even ESTJ) (or even an NF of some sort???)

But I don't know for sure!  Part of the magic of MBTI is discovering exactly what you are. Sometimes it takes people a while to figure out their exact type.

But this is all me basing it on writing (Which does give serious clues, even thought it might be stereotype-y. For example you aren't putting smiley faces everywhere so you're most likely not an ENFP haha).


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

cata.lyst.rawr said:


> You should browse around the ESTP forum and get an idea for how they generally write. I love the ESTP forum lol, it's like the joke around hangout forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I do agree that ESTPs typically are quite brief in their posts, although when making serious inquiries into typing I'm sure one would be open to more discussion and thus write more. It would be very silly for anyone to come this subforum and write two sentences.

I don't really agree with the generalizations about sensors, at least in terms of wordiness. I can see that about Se-doms, but a sensor Fi-dom or an Si-dom can be prone to wordiness from my experience in poking around those forums (there's one ISFP I have in mind that writes essays for literally everything, god bless. Married to an INTP though, so there's that). An ESTP with strong Ti is still an ESTP if his Se is dominant, so there's wordiness... potential.

I'm curious though, based on your evaluation, how an ISFP would write :0

Edit: took out the reply to the ENFP part because I saw that you clarified.


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

kittenmogu said:


> I do agree that ESTPs typically are quite brief in their posts, although when making serious inquiries into typing I'm sure one would be open to more discussion and thus write more. It would be very silly for anyone to come this subforum and write two sentences.
> 
> I don't really agree with the generalizations about sensors, at least in terms of wordiness. I can see that about Se-doms, but a sensor Fi-dom or an Si-dom can be prone to wordiness from my experience in poking around those forums (there's one ISFP I have in mind that writes essays for literally everything, god bless. Married to an INTP though, so there's that). An ESTP with strong Ti is still an ESTP if his Se is dominant, so there's wordiness... potential.
> 
> ...



These are all gross generalizations, just because someone doesn't use smiley faces in a few posts doesn't mean I automatically discount them as ENFP, it's just a tiny clue to a bigger picture. 

I don't really know any ISFPs IRL... Hmm I think ISFPs are laid back in their writing style, but more of a focus on people, feelings, and emotions. They can have a gentle/feeling influenced writing style, be artsy and creative, and describe things in a Sensor way. I don't often read what ISFPs write but I can think back to a few posts with very "laid back spelling and grammar" lol. Not suggesting anything 

Can you point out some posts by your friend? I'm curious to read 


EDIT: ESTJs can be quite wordy, so that was a bit of a generalization, yeah ;^_^


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## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

I think another thing that's worth noting is that I've been in speech and debate for all of high school. Debate is Ti-crazy, to say the least. I wouldn't be surprised if it involved some Ni or Ne or whatever as well, but debate basically is Ti, because it's all about building an argument and thinking in a logical manner. I can't even explain it. It's just crazy. So that, I know for a fact, enhanced my Ti quite a bit.


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## kittenmogu (Jun 19, 2014)

cata.lyst.rawr said:


> These are all gross generalizations, just because someone doesn't use smiley faces in a few posts doesn't mean I automatically discount them as ENFP, it's just a tiny clue to a bigger picture.
> 
> I don't really know any ISFPs IRL... Hmm I think ISFPs are laid back in their writing style, but more of a focus on people, feelings, and emotions, and depending on the enneagram, they can have a gentle/feeling influenced writing style. I don't often read what ISFPs write but I can think back to a few posts with very "laid back spelling and grammar" lol. Not suggesting anything
> 
> Can you point out some posts by your friend? I'm curious to read


Makes sense. I can see ISXPs both as laid back. (I know what you mean by some ISFPs having very laid back spelling and grammar though. It makes me wonder sometimes) I would say ENXPs come off as ...bubbling. ESXPs as more direct than laidback, perhaps.

(I feel so stalkerish putting this here, some more essay-length than others). You can tell when an ISFP really cares, I guess is what I'm saying.

also, question for @NordicTrail! Are there "ESTP" things or people that you relate to? (Wish I could give examples to choose from but sadly I am not an expert).


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

NordicTrail said:


> I think another thing that's worth noting is that I've been in speech and debate for all of high school. Debate is Ti-crazy, to say the least. I wouldn't be surprised if it involved some Ni or Ne or whatever as well, but debate basically is Ti, because it's all about building an argument and thinking in a logical manner. I can't even explain it. It's just crazy. So that, I know for a fact, enhanced my Ti quite a bit.



Ok here's my personal quick run down of pin-pointing your MBTI. It isn't perfect but bear with me!


1: Introversion or extroversion? What do you think you are and why. 

2: Are you a bro? Do you know what a bro is? Do you enjoy and are you comfortable hanging out in fraternity settings and playing beer pong with other bros?

3. Do you think you're extremely logical? Do you prefer logic over emotions? Do you win your debates? 

4. Are you comfortable in most social settings? How well do you flirt with girls?

Ok that's it for now


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## Feathers Falling (Sep 5, 2012)

kittenmogu said:


> Makes sense. I can see ISXPs both as laid back. (I know what you mean by some ISFPs having very laid back spelling and grammar though. It makes me wonder sometimes) I would say ENXPs come off as ...bubbling. ESXPs as more direct than laidback, perhaps.


Agreed with all of it  definitely the bubbly part for the ENxPs haha



kittenmogu said:


> (I feel so stalkerish putting this here, some more essay-length than others). You can tell when an ISFP really cares, I guess is what I'm saying.


Great writing! Yup there is definitely a lot of sensory feeling going on


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## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

Yeah, there definitely are. I love motorcycles and cars. And planes. Really anything that goes fast. That generally applies to ISTPs as well, but even more so to ESTPs. I love travel, too. I hunt and shoot trap, but I suppose that could just as well be ISTP. I can be pretty personable, and I'm pretty easy to get along with. I've got that blunt, dry sense of humor that ESTPs often have. I do admire some ESTPs as well. Churchill's always been a favorite of mine. Oh, and I've always loved Hemingway's writings, and I love the rough-and-tumble image he had about him. I'm inclined to think that my avatar, F. Scott Fitzgerald, was also an ESTP. I quite like him.


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## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

1. It really could be either. I'd have to do some pondering to answer that one. I'll get back to you.

2. I'm not exactly a bro. Most people would describe me as a hipster or something like that. That being said, I love doing bro stuff, and I have friends that most definitely are bros, and hanging out with them is great. Yes, I would play beer pong with them in a heartbeat.

3. I'm pretty logical, but I wouldn't say extremely. I'm not a robot. I understand emotional appeal though, and I can exercise if I wish to. I do have a strong preference for thinking, but I have a good grips on my emotions, which are very steady. I'm quite even tempered. I did quite well in debate. At our state tournament, I was in the top 16 people out of roughly 400.

4. Definitely. I might not be loud or the center of attention, but I try to talk to almost everyone there. When comes to flirting, I generally just talk to girls about whatever is relevant at the time. I'll try to get to know them a bit, and I'll joke around and whatnot. I've got a girlfriend now, so it's been a bit since I did any flirting, but it worked last time, of course.


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## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

1. Mildly/Slightly extroverted. I try to spend time with people, and I like being around a variety of people. Although I've recently been enjoying solitude a lot less than I used to, but I'm not disillusioned with it. I just value it less.


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## HFGE (Jul 19, 2014)

If you're stuck between ISTP and ESTP, ISTP seems to make more sense.

Just to be sure though lets say you were in a situation where you had to make an important decision of which you were very unsure about which decision to make. What would you do or who would you talk to, to reach your decision?


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## NordicTrail (Feb 10, 2014)

Depends on what the decision is, but I'd probably ask a few of my buddies about it. I'd probably also do some reading about the subject to help. I like it when I can talk to someone who has first-hand experience though rather than just be reliant on something I read online. Then I'd probably let all the information settle, and I'd make my choice.


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