# NFs aren't perfect angels



## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

One thing I don't like about fellow (unhealthy) NFs is the passive-aggressiveness. They tend to be very indirect, less likely to talk to you directly about what bothers them. I like to discuss things openly, clear the air, and communicate. I notice that fellow NFs tend to be bad at that, and have trouble with expressing themselves to the person upsetting them. Instead, they will talk to others, or do passive-aggressive things that just complicate things and increase the drama. It's immensely frustrating. Also, tend to be uncomfortable with conflict, whereas I see conflict as necessary sometimes, and an opportunity for growth. 

I also don't like how some NFs will adopt the *~misunderstood~* label, especially in online communities. :frustrating:


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## megmento (Jul 26, 2016)

kaleidoscope said:


> One thing I don't like about fellow (unhealthy) NFs is the passive-aggressiveness. They tend to be very indirect, less likely to talk to you directly about what bothers them. I like to discuss things openly, clear the air, and communicate. I notice that fellow NFs tend to be bad at that, and have trouble with expressing themselves to the person upsetting them. Instead, they will talk to others, or do passive-aggressive things that just complicate things and increase the drama. It's immensely frustrating. Also, tend to be uncomfortable with conflict, whereas I see conflict as necessary sometimes, and an opportunity for growth.
> 
> I also don't like how some NFs will adopt the *~misunderstood~* label, especially in online communities. :frustrating:


Is that what you call,_ "walking on egg shells"_? This is such a dangerous demeanor that a bond can simply fall apart once the repressed NF who held back for a long time unceremoniously bursts out. Totally not digging it these days, it costed me a relationship.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

megmento said:


> Is that what you call,_ "walking on egg shells"_? This is such a dangerous demeanor that a bond can simply fall apart once the repressed NF who held back for a long time unceremoniously bursts out. Totally not digging it these days, it costed me a relationship.


And that's exactly why I am way more comfortable about NTs, because they can definitely handle me, my feistiness/bluntness and my sense of humor. I don't have to hold back, or walk on eggshells. It feels like I have to be very careful around (_some,_ not all) NFs :\


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

I can be very coldly critical, blunt, brusque, tell it as it is, and can have a hot temper. I am also self righteous, mostly emotionally stoic, believe I am right most of the time, trust logic more than emotions, can be smothering in my affections.


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## megmento (Jul 26, 2016)

kaleidoscope said:


> And that's exactly why I am way more comfortable about NTs, because they can definitely handle me, my feistiness/bluntness and my sense of humor. I don't have to hold back, or walk on eggshells. It feels like I have to be very careful around (_some,_ not all) NFs :\


I have this love-hate, conflicted world with my NT circle. But you know what they say when _a relationship with no apparent conflict may be unhealthier than one with frequent conflict_ can make so much sense with this kind of people. *laughs.


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

We're deffo not perfect angels - I hope no one believes that.

I've had different issue with different NFs.

My biggest conflict is probably with INFPs. We just don't see eye to eye on many things - I'm not a fan of how their dom Fi can manifest under stress. For me it's perhaps the most unbearable function when it's not doing well. I do find the INFPs in my life struggle with making illogical decisions when they're stressed out - it really takes a toll on the friendship because when INFJs are stressed, we usually become super logical and cold - the opposite and it make a volatile match. Otherwise, my favourite authors and singers all happen to be INFPs, their art really speak to me for some reason. But I think most of our disagreements are perhaps a enneagram based dispute as I don't seem to get along well with many type 4s. I tend to find them pretty moral self-righteous and it's annoying.

ENFJs are a strange one - I see that most INFJs like them on PerC. I have yet to have any good experiences with them because I feel like they are the more emotionally intrusive version of myself. When I read people, I'm subtle about it. I'm not interrogating them or askign them 21 questions. When I meet ENFJs, I feel they're stunned by their inability to read me and they become (not intentionally or consicously) extremely nosey and start trying to invade my privacy. They poke and prod, depserately trying to 'get' me and see if they can get a reaction and I really really do not like it nor appreciate it. I'm not sure if I've had any ENFJ friends.

The only problem I see with other INFJs is online since I'm not friends with any IRL. Basically, they just reflect my weaknesses or shortcomings back to me. We come across as super big-headed, sometimes arrogant and opinionated even when we're not. We have a bad habit of projecting this image of ourselves when on the inside we couldn't feel more different. Plus I prefer to surround myself with people of very contrasting personalities, like my many ENTP friends. Not a fan of dating myself, I don't think it would provide an opportunity for me to grow.

And ENFPs, lovely ENFPs. Probably the type I have the least amount of conflict with next to ISFJs. The only thing I seem to conflict with ENFPs on is their scatteredness. They're here one minute, then they disappear and expect you to be fine with it. They disappear unannounced, they reappear unannounced - gives me whiplash and I like consistency - the ones I have known have largely been the opposite of consistency. They're not reliable, they may be fun to be around but I wish I could count on them more. I tend to find them a tad more emotional than myself but I think I could learn to deal with it if they could accept my natural coldness. I'm warm on the inside, just don't naturally show it much. I think ENFPs are great.

I do probably get along with NTs more than NFs in the long-run though.


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## darkmatter (Jul 18, 2016)

The only reason NFs come across as angels is because they put on a public facade. I see it all the time, NFs being extra nice to people to their face, but then secretly disliking them. When I asked an INFP why he does this, he said it's because he's sensitive to people disliking him, so he acts extra nice to everyone as to not bring about criticism. 

Honestly though, the NFs I have had in my life have been the most unintentionally hurtful people I have ever met. They are passive-aggressive and emotionally manipulative. You never know whether they're being honest or not because they tend to not say what they really mean, and/or sugar-coat things. In comparison, I am rarely hurt by NTs/STs because they are more straight forward and you don't have an expectation of them that is different from what they present. They also don't say things out of anger as much.


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

darkmatter said:


> The only reason NFs come across as angels is because they put on a public facade. I see it all the time, NFs being extra nice to people to their face, but then secretly disliking them. When I asked an INFP why he does this, he said it's because he's sensitive to people disliking him, so he acts extra nice to everyone as to not bring about criticism.
> 
> Honestly though, the NFs I have had in my life have been the most unintentionally hurtful people I have ever met. They are passive-aggressive and emotionally manipulative. You never know whether they're being honest or not because they tend to not say what they really mean, and/or sugar-coat things. In comparison, I am rarely hurt by NTs/STs because they are more straight forward and you don't have an expectation of them that is different from what they present. They also don't say things out of anger as much.


I don't put on a façade. I think it's better to be honest and open than fake as hell. If you dislike someone, it's better to be honest and either work something out with them if you have to live with them, or just point blank go your seperate ways/ confront them. I am not adverse to conflicts but I don't nessecarily want someone up my ass/people's asses giving them hell for no good reason. It's not fair on anyone when that one person has to be a pain in the ass, y'know? 

As for being sensitive, that depends on the individual. You can get genuinely sensitive people, drama queen, cry babies and stoic NFs, just as you can with any personality type. NFs are people too, but I think the lack of understanding comes from the stereotypes and how you typically see "nf"people act, especially online. Some of us genuinely don't mind being disliked, especially if it means that things end up better in the long run, you know? If Bob's being nasty to Simon and you stick up for Simon but Bob hates you for the rest of the year, but Simon's not being bullied anymore, or if you ignore someone for the greater good. 

Maybe you have had bad experiences with "cardboard" NFs and seen their true pulp after the storm, but I can assure you that not all of them are like that. That's just a myth. 

Sent from my SM-T330 using Tapatalk


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## darkmatter (Jul 18, 2016)

WontlyTheMoonBear said:


> I don't put on a façade. I think it's better to be honest and open than fake as hell. If you dislike someone, it's better to be honest and either work something out with them if you have to live with them, or just point blank go your seperate ways/ confront them. I am not adverse to conflicts but I don't nessecarily want someone up my ass/people's asses giving them hell for no good reason. It's not fair on anyone when that one person has to be a pain in the ass, y'know?
> 
> As for being sensitive, that depends on the individual. You can get genuinely sensitive people, drama queen, cry babies and stoic NFs, just as you can with any personality type. NFs are people too, but I think the lack of understanding comes from the stereotypes and how you typically see "nf"people act, especially online. Some of us genuinely don't mind being disliked, especially if it means that things end up better in the long run, you know? If Bob's being nasty to Simon and you stick up for Simon but Bob hates you for the rest of the year, but Simon's not being bullied anymore, or if you ignore someone for the greater good.
> 
> ...


Well I always like NFs regardless, I just have to be on the look out for the unhealthy ones, they will hurt you far more than an unhealthy NT IMO. 
I find that NFJs are better at communicating their feelings than NFPs. 

The bad experiences I have had with NFs usually stem from the fact they they tend to offend easily. I might say or do something innocently, they will become offended, and act like you're the worst person ever. I find that their responses to things are not justifiable.


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## umop 3pisdn (Apr 4, 2014)

I think the nicest person I've ever met was an ESTP. A part of what made this person so kind was that there really wasn't any kind of pretence, there kind of couldn't be because he was somewhat clumsy with feelings. NFs, in contrast, can get drunk on their own hype about how diplomatic or whatever they supposedly are, and actually kind of kill their own genuineness that way.


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

Let me begin with myself:
-Critical of people and things
-Blunt
-Outbursts when very upset (rare)
-Sarcastic
-Passive aggressive (I hate this it is so dishonest)
-*glares at people*
-Says mean things to friends (I assume they know I mean well)
-Reject showings of affection at times
-Irritable
This is, mind you, not me all the time. I'm cranky in the mornings which is where sarcastic and verbally abusive come from. I say mean things often trying to mess with my friends...it always comes out sounding meaner than I intended it to be. Glares have always been a thing. When I'm thinking or trying to sort things out sometimes some people just irritate me when they try to talk or do something. I also have gotten into this attitude of late where I've become numb to things like displays of affection, physical touch, romantic things...idk.

I think I'm becoming my brother. ><


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

If I'm passive aggressive it's because my instinct is not to be angry with you but AAAAGHHHH YOU PISS ME OFF but I love you TT but you're an idiot but I need to understand that you make mistakes but I'm still hurt but what if I'M wrong and you're okay...

It's a matter of inner conflict between my empathetic side and my personal feelings. At least for me. Maybe for others too.


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## ECM (Apr 8, 2015)

Basically I think people misunderstand the "F", people think "oh feeling, they are nice, oh logical thinking... evil and cold". Where both can be subjective and used differently. 

Feelings comprise of not only love, but anger, resentment, depression, jealously. So think of "Fi" introverted/internalised feeling, and then attach any of the former to that. Internalised anger, internalised jealousy, and then someone using their intuition to act on these feelings or having them influence their intuition, some "passionate evil" things can come about. 

Hitler was an NF, and he was passionate about his racism, and his vision of conquest.

Where as I know more than one INTP who are very nice, loyal and honest people. They are only horrible to people who went out and did something to them first. They can be very honest, but out of care. It can "come across" cold, but to them it's their individual expression of love, it's just not "NF love". 

I think if we can understand these fundamentals, we can better connect with people. It's like having a cat and a dog, the dog rolls on it's back for affection where the cat brings in dead birds, or mice, then only looking at the dog's actions as an acceptable form of love and getting angry at the cat for not doing the same, when the whole time it was showing it's love by being present by you, and bringing it's "gifts". 

Now with humans, there is always morality to consider, you cant say a human is loving when they want to murder your family because they wanted to end your suffering by ending your existence because they love you, that's.. well madness. But it's a "principle" I'm trying to get at. There are.. general universal morals we follow and within those bounds all types can love, just in various ways and all types, even NFs can be evil in various ways, just that the processing tools for these actions are different.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

I will read and reply to people eventually but I thought I'd just make sure I'd keep this thread on track.

If you find yourself saying something like "NFs are..." or "NFs in general..." then you are missing the point of this topic. It's not to make sweeping statements. There are plenty of threads for stereotyping already.


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## MonogamyIsNice (Mar 21, 2012)

Speak for yourself <3


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## another number (Feb 26, 2013)

Falling Foxes said:


> I'll start? Thinking of a specific INFP, my aunt, someone who I wouldn't have automatically typed as an INFP because of the stereotypes that NFs are kind and caring people...
> 
> Well, she's introverted to the point that she's a hermit. She doesn't have friends and hasn't for many years and I think that's a big problem with how she's developed. She connected with me most when I was a child and she would create these fairytales and be the only one who could really keep up with my imaginative worlds and so I adored her.
> 
> She has managed to convince herself that she is this person who she isn't. She doesn't use Fi-Ne to grow but to pretend to be someone else. She will often say things like "I am a kind and considerate person, I'm not heartless" after someone's pointed out that she's offended someone and "I am a great speaker in front of others." despite the fact she rarely sees people out in the real world and she's probably thinking of a time 50 years ago when she spoke in front of others. She genuinely wants to be a nice and caring person, I believe that but she is just completely blind to other people's feelings and has a tendency to explode with anger if others don't agree with her. Quick to label people as evil if they don't fit her morals. It feels like it's impossible to get her to listen to me and she's already convinced herself that she's mature so trying to point out her flaws does not work and it drives me insane. Sometimes I feel like she's understanding and then by the next morning she's gone back to her usual loop.


Mmm this reminds me of my mother... she types as INFP . Lives in her own world of dreams, no friends, no initiative/involvement in the world. Refuses to drive to work more than ten minutes. 
Lots of damage done as a child because of it, almost to the point of sabotaging my development into an autonomous adult capable of making decisions. My Dad sabotaged me, but in a more practical sense by way of destroying my credit. I think he is INFJ. To this day he takes no responsibility. 
On the upside they're both great listeners.. actually not really. Yea I don't talk to them anymore.


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## Flaming Bassoon (Feb 15, 2013)

We're not???????

​This is news to me.


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## principesa (Jul 4, 2016)

darkmatter said:


> The only reason NFs come across as angels is because they put on a public facade. I see it all the time, NFs being extra nice to people to their face, but then secretly disliking them. When I asked an INFP why he does this, he said it's because he's sensitive to people disliking him, so he acts extra nice to everyone as to not bring about criticism.
> 
> Honestly though, the NFs I have had in my life have been the most unintentionally hurtful people I have ever met. They are passive-aggressive and emotionally manipulative. You never know whether they're being honest or not because they tend to not say what they really mean, and/or sugar-coat things. In comparison, I am rarely hurt by NTs/STs because they are more straight forward and you don't have an expectation of them that is different from what they present. They also don't say things out of anger as much.


I agree. Still love them thought, as they have and give us what we lack. 
I think they don't see this part at all, and they honestly assume that being "kind, kinder, kindest" is the best way of treating people. I always wonder if their need is to only receiving kindness, not truth.


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## Witch of Oreo (Jun 23, 2014)

Is there really that much NF praise? Well, anyway, here go some of my faults.

So, *emotional manipulation*. I am guilty of it, sometimes unconsciously.
In my case - rooted mostly in poor upbringing. When speaking up and expressing what you want is taught to be "selfish" and "bad" throughout the life, there is little choice but to rely on manipulation techniques to preserve whatever identity you have left. Comes from deeply engraved feeling of being unworthy of having what you want.
I try to be open and honest, but it's just so damn hard. Not sure if I will ever get a hang of it.

*Too blunt.*
Sometimes when I meet my INTP friend and his wife (ISTP I guess?) comes along, she ends up puffing cheeks at many things I say, and the worst part is I can't even understand if she's seriously offended or just plays around. Seems to take a heck lot of things too personally, many people in my experience did. _So, maybe it's my fault after all for not being able to communicate properly?_
Yet another point in favor of manipulation and pretending - you get to communicate without causing excessive drama.

I'll make sure to do a follow up once I think of something else and word it properly.


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## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

Falling Foxes said:


> I know that people don't often want to dispel positive stereotypes but when those stereotypes imply that other types _can't_ be kind-hearted or as loveable as NFs I think it starts to create a rift between types and animosity in the MBTI community. That's not what MBTI should be about.


I am not aware of any stereotype that suggests NFs are uniquely capable of love. The typical NF is stereotyped as being unusually creative, artistic and empathetic (which honestly, doesn't jive with my experience). But not especially loving. SJs get that one.



Falling Foxes said:


> So consider this a thread to break those stereotypes, to rant about specific NFs if you want and need to. This thread isn't a hate thread and it isn't to make people think that NFs are bad people either but to prove that all types are good and bad and that it takes a lot more than type to judge a person. So no general broad-strokes of "NFs do X and I hate it"
> 
> For the NFs out there, consider this a thread to see alarm bells on how to improve yourself and not let the compliments get to your head. For non-NFs out there consider this a thread to ignore stereotypes or get advice on immature NFs.


My issues with other NFs - particularly but not solely INFPs - arise when they do one of two things.

1. Define their identity through something impersonal like their values/ideas
2. Believe all feelings are valid, and don't question their own emotional responses

This has been a source of substantial personal conflict in my life at times. 

One of the main reasons I and my ex-girlfriend broke up was because we had strong political disagreements. I am very pro-Trump, but she loathes him. That in itself didn't bother me, because my views on X issue don't affect how I see other people (I mean, they're still people). But for her, values conflict was proof I was unsuitable as a mate - something that reeks of zealotry. The election has brought out her inner SJW and I found that too childish to live with. We both wanted to have kids, but I sure as hell don't want her to raise my children.

Probably an even more important reason was that she couldn't dissect her own feelings, and thus often did impulsive, stupid shit without considering the consequences - like calling me a racist, hateful bigot, then bursting into tears later when I told her that's unacceptable behaviour and I am leaving. As we all know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think my ex is fundamentally a caring person, but she can't regulate her moral outrage. There are a lot of INFPs just like her taking gender studies classes on campus. 

The keys to growth for any NF are _learning to think rationally_ and _to actively engage with the world_.


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## Azure Dreamer (May 26, 2016)

Blue Ribbon said:


> Some NFs I love:
> 
> ENFPs - @mjn_the_enfp
> INFPs - @megmento @AshOrLey
> ...


Thanks for the mention but yeah I am far from perfect and very human like other NFs.
To borrow a quote: "I myself am entirely made of flaws stitched together with good intentions"

Based on myself and long time INFP friend of mine.

Passive aggressive they don't like. 
Little issue calling people out if they are about to do something bad/stupid.
Know it all attitude at times. (/winces at this)
The ability to coldly cut someone out at times with little warning. 
Judgmental glares.
Whimsical at times.
Stubborn.

This is what I can think of at the top of my head but yeah NFs have flaws and are human. I really wish types were not idolized or put on petal stools sometimes with the descriptions.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

lavendersnow said:


> Otherwise, my favourite authors and singers all happen to be INFPs, their art really speak to me for some reason.


Yeah, we tend to be tokenized for our abilities to express a certain feeling or make an internal experience aesthetic.

Pretty much, we're the cool star that has really far out music, but once you get to know the artist, you want out. You'd rather see the cool, interesting halo version of that person's internal processes. I'm glad I read this topic, because I have been forgetting this recently, and I think my relationships have been suffering for it.


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## AshOrLey (May 28, 2016)

Rock Of Ages said:


> There are a lot of INFPs just like her taking gender studies classes on campus.


*---*

This slightly embrasses me lol. On behalf of all infps...apologies...and stuff...

It was a smart move to abandon that relationship. I can barely stand being friends with someone where I have to walk on eggshells like that 90% of the time. It actually grosses me out, everything is so fake and...eugh. 

I remember being subconsciously offended over everything when I was little. Though, I just kept it to myself most the time. But I can't imagine having that mindset nowadays. It was the one weakness that made me go hmm when I typed myself as infp, I had to really think back until I finally remembered it was indeed a problem that I never really noticed, but solved along the way (thankfully). 

I can't remember the last thing I got offended over. It's just not even a thing with me and I'm as INFP as it gets. Just raised differently. and I really appreciate the people and other factors in my life, the good and bad, that helped to shape and mold me in such a way throughout my journey; even though I will always have a lot more room to grow and learn. But no matter the age, nor environment, I believe anyone can immensely better themselves and shouldn't take pride in their weaknesses.


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## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

AshOrLey said:


> *---*
> 
> This slightly embrasses me lol. On behalf of all infps...apologies...and stuff...


It is kind of graphic, and I did want to make a point. But I know that there are a lot of emotionally healthy INFPs out there, too :tongue: 



AshOrLey said:


> It was a smart move to abandon that relationship. I can barely stand being friends with someone where I have to walk on eggshells like that 90% of the time. It actually grosses me out, everything is so fake and...eugh.


The sad thing was that I couldn't have known this would happen when I first met my ex. She came across as a passionate girl with strong convictions, which could mean anything. What concerned me was how a month in, she started to rant about stuff like "white male patriarchy", "rape culture" etc, somehow immune to the irony that she was giving head to a white man - me. 

Anyway...



AshOrLey said:


> I remember being subconsciously offended over everything when I was little. Though, I just kept it to myself most the time. But I can't imagine having that mindset nowadays. It was the one weakness that made me go hmm when I typed myself as infp, I had to really think back until I finally remembered it was indeed a problem that I never really noticed, but solved along the way (thankfully). I can't remember the last thing I got offended over. It's just not even a thing with me.


There isn't anything inherently silly in being offended by something, or someone. The trick is being able to recognise whether your feelings are logical. It is not logical to take offense to something that isn't directed at you, personally, and this is something immature INFPs seem to struggle with. They react in outrage when it's totally inappropriate, which makes them objects of ridicule for others.

It is great to see someone who has risen above that. INFP women who do can become very attractive.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

In my experience a lot of NF's are actually kind of snooty, and self-righteous but in kind of an arrogant and very easy to offend way.

It's not a terrible trait, but it actually kind of surprises me with the snooty aspect. I don't know why that is. One thing that irks me about other NF's is there desire to so easily wave and give to societal pressures to appease the group, often at whatever cost of the individual self or logic and opinions.


Like, I don't know, I feel like I stab them too, emotionally or something, I am too much for them or something and I find them too 'soft' but in that snooty, and self righteous, "bbaaaww, no that's mean, that's not right, that's rude and insulting to people, IT UPSETS PEOPLE AND MAKES THEM SAAADDDD. SAAAD PANDDAAAA"

Yeah well, life will kick you in the balls and smash your kids without even a hesitation, that doesn't really mean shit-diddly-squat.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

Well, clearly I've been traveling around the parts of the internet that a lot of people here haven't! XD
I normally see NFs being likened to perfect cinnamon rolls and TJs to cold blooded villains.





EccentricM said:


> Hitler was an NF, and he was passionate about his racism, and his vision of conquest.


Well, thanks, case closed, we can close the thread now! That gives me chills. But he totally was.





Frankie Last said:


> Mmm this reminds me of my mother... she types as INFP . Lives in her own world of dreams, no friends, no initiative/involvement in the world. Refuses to drive to work more than ten minutes.
> Lots of damage done as a child because of it, almost to the point of sabotaging my development into an autonomous adult capable of making decisions. My Dad sabotaged me, but in a more practical sense by way of destroying my credit. I think he is INFJ. To this day he takes no responsibility.
> On the upside they're both great listeners.. actually not really. Yea I don't talk to them anymore.


Yeah if she's like my aunt then I can't ever imagine her being a mature enough mother. I'm sorry that you have to deal with that. Family, eh?





Rock Of Ages said:


> The election has brought out her inner SJW and I found that too childish to live with.
> 
> The keys to growth for any NF are _learning to think rationally_ and _to actively engage with the world_.


 [/quote]

Having a set of values isn't unhealthy or immature for an NF. I think the fact that her opinions clashed with yours led you to believe that she couldn't think rationally.



Rock Of Ages said:


> What concerned me was how a month in, she started to rant about stuff like "white male patriarchy", "rape culture" etc, somehow immune to the irony that she was giving head to a white man - me.


And the irony is she's a feminist who hates the system but not men...?





Cantankerous Old Wizard said:


> In my experience a lot of NF's are actually kind of snooty, and self-righteous but in kind of an arrogant and very easy to offend way.


I should have known people would disregard the point of this thread.


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

Rock Of Ages said:


> Probably an even more important reason was that she couldn't dissect her own feelings, and thus often did impulsive, stupid shit without considering the consequences - like calling me a racist, hateful bigot, then bursting into tears later when I told her that's unacceptable behaviour and I am leaving. As we all know, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I think my ex is fundamentally a caring person, but she can't regulate her moral outrage. There are a lot of INFPs just like her taking gender studies classes on campus.


Seriously? Couldn't she sit down and have a discussion on your political thoughts, why you choose those beliefs, and your whole life up until this point which has influenced you to think the way you do? ><
Though I can understand if she feels offended simply because you believe something else, you have to be able to sit down and talk. ;s
Also, sorry but...gender studies class = *eye roll* People leave that class paranoid and annoying.


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## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

mytinyheart said:


> Seriously? Couldn't she sit down and have a discussion on your political thoughts, why you choose those beliefs, and your whole life up until this point which has influenced you to think the way you do? ><
> Though I can understand if she feels offended simply because you believe something else, you have to be able to sit down and talk. ;s
> Also, sorry but...gender studies class = *eye roll* People leave that class paranoid and annoying.


No, she couldn't just sit down and have a normal, adult conversation about politics. For a while, I was content to sweep this under the carpet because I was afraid of jeopardizing the positive aspects of our relationship. I hadn't felt so connected, understood etc (shit this is getting embarrassing now) to a woman before so I put up with a lot of crap. But I have come to learn that you can't change people unless they consent to it. 

Look, I have this problem where I crush on fallen women who I "see the good in" and think I can change. It is stupid, totally my own fault and I freely acknowledge that. Truth is that some bitches are rotten to the core. If anything, the above shows the weaknesses of an ENFJ, however much I try to cloak and beguile. I am still me, and it is way too easy to break my heart. 

I feel awkward mentioning all this to you guys but I am doing so in the hope that you will listen, and not make the same mistakes that I have. Girls really can be mean. They aren't innocent angels who need rescuing. If I can guide only one mind, then I'll sleep easily tonight. Later.


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

Rake the Coals said:


> Yeah, we tend to be tokenized for our abilities to express a certain feeling or make an internal experience aesthetic.
> 
> Pretty much, we're the cool star that has really far out music, but once you get to know the artist, you want out. You'd rather see the cool, interesting halo version of that person's internal processes. I'm glad I read this topic, because I have been forgetting this recently, and I think my relationships have been suffering for it.


Basically. I've had many INFP friends. They seem to like my individualism in the form of my Ni, but soon we realise we basically have nothing in common - no common ground and can't see eye to eye on a lot of topics. I don't feel I need to agree with every value my friends have but the INFPs I have known have seen this as cause for trouble and not something they can accept easily.

Plus, it's not only INFPs who have a talent for song-writing, ISFPs do also. It's just INFPs get the limelight for their work being really 'out-there' and often experimental which reflects both their Ne and Fi.


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## another number (Feb 26, 2013)

Rock Of Ages said:


> Girls really can be mean. They aren't innocent angels who need rescuing.


Yes... women are autonomous, potentially well educated, cunning creatures. :frustrating:
I think Disney is to blame here.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

lavendersnow said:


> Basically. I've had many INFP friends. They seem to like my individualism in the form of my Ni, but soon we realise we basically have nothing in common - no common ground and can't see eye to eye on a lot of topics. I don't feel I need to agree with every value my friends have but the INFPs I have known have seen this as cause for trouble and not something they can accept easily.
> 
> Plus, it's not only INFPs who have a talent for song-writing, ISFPs do also. It's just INFPs get the limelight for their work being really 'out-there' and often experimental which reflects both their Ne and Fi.


Surprised to hear that you don't get along with INFPs. What about ENFPs? I always felt like INFJs might have contrasting functions but still work well together.

I know that I have a number of occasions gotten close to people and then seen their political views online it's been enough to push me away from them. I'd rather be oblivious with the possibility that their political beliefs clash with mine than have to pretend that I'm okay with their beliefs after the fact. There are exceptions to this mostly with people who have won me over long before politics came into it but I like to know that my friends are caring people.


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## kirsten.j (Jul 12, 2016)

To think of Feelers in general as nice because they are Feelers and Thinkers as not nice because they are Thinkers is a gross over-simplification. There's no reason to think NFs are any nicer than anyone else. I think how kind you are reflects the environment you grew up in and your emotional maturity, not your specific type. Different types have different ways of communicating; Feelers use more emotional language, while you wouldn't expect that from an ENTJ. Feelers also have more people-centered interests and are better at reading others' feelings.
But none of that has to do with actual kindness.


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

lavendersnow said:


> Basically. I've had many INFP friends. They seem to like my individualism in the form of my Ni, but soon we realise we basically have nothing in common - no common ground and can't see eye to eye on a lot of topics. I don't feel I need to agree with every value my friends have but the INFPs I have known have seen this as cause for trouble and not something they can accept easily.
> 
> Plus, it's not only INFPs who have a talent for song-writing, ISFPs do also. It's just INFPs get the limelight for their work being really 'out-there' and often experimental which reflects both their Ne and Fi.


The fact that you agreed with me terrifies me. lol


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## Necrilia (Jun 26, 2011)

Sure, no one's perfect.

I've been many times negatively surprised by NFs, as well as by other types. 
The difference, to me, is that NFs can disappoint more deeply than other types


ENFJs would at times disappoint me with their shallowness and lack of introspection.

INFPs would disappoint me with way too much sensitivity, passive-aggressiveness and rude accusations.

INFJs would disappoint me with their manipulative and judgemental nature.

ENFPs would disappoint me with uselesness of certain things they did, shallowness, passive-aggressiveness and egotism.


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## StaticPulse (Nov 9, 2016)

Falling Foxes said:


> Surprised to hear that you don't get along with INFPs. What about ENFPs? I always felt like INFJs might have contrasting functions but still work well together.
> 
> I know that I have a number of occasions gotten close to people and then seen their political views online it's been enough to push me away from them. I'd rather be oblivious with the possibility that their political beliefs clash with mine than have to pretend that I'm okay with their beliefs after the fact. There are exceptions to this mostly with people who have won me over long before politics came into it but I like to know that my friends are caring people.


I don't have an issue with clashing political beliefs. But I do have problems with people who dismiss my views and lack the integrity and credibility to be able to cope with my conflicting views. Particular distaste for people that box views under one heading. Right wing voters are suddenly a bunch of racist christians and Left wing voters are all vegan SJW's. Refusing to hear any of the credible points coming from people who don't share the same values as you is icky no matter who it's coming from. Those are the people I don't have time for. Some will say they're willing to hear opposing views but their dismissive attitudes tell me otherwise. I'll talk to people who will actually listen and engage. Not just fill in the blanks with what they've already decided. 

As for NF's, I think my little brother's an INFP. He's actually kinda awesome. He's a kid, so obviously he's annoying af. But still awesome. 

I don't see more NF's in my social science classes at school. They're as likely to be the ones squawking on the corner with their anti-abortion signs as they are to be going on a rant about white privilege. The strangest thing in my observations is that NF's are the most gray, neither good or bad personalities I meet, but the most likely to view the world in black and white. My awesome younger brother included. I appreciate the passion, so I'm willing to overlook this tendency.


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

Rake the Coals said:


> The fact that you agreed with me terrifies me. lol


Why? I'm not going to lie about it. It helps nobody. Me and INFPs do not gel - I like what they can do, I appreciate their individualism very much but that's where it ends. I don't see it as likely having an INFP in my life more seriously or in my face than that. 

It's not really a secret that INFPs and INFJs have little in common once you get past our surface similarities (empathy, other-worldliness etc). We interact with the world in a way that couldn't be more different (Ni-Fe/Fi-Ne).


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

Falling Foxes said:


> Surprised to hear that you don't get along with INFPs. What about ENFPs? I always felt like INFJs might have contrasting functions but still work well together.
> 
> I know that I have a number of occasions gotten close to people and then seen their political views online it's been enough to push me away from them. I'd rather be oblivious with the possibility that their political beliefs clash with mine than have to pretend that I'm okay with their beliefs after the fact. There are exceptions to this mostly with people who have won me over long before politics came into it but I like to know that my friends are caring people.


I pretty much always have an instantaneous connection with ENFPs which has a bigger potential of lasting than the connection I get with INFPs - because I prefer a dom Ne than dom Fi, since it's closer in nature to the way my Ni works. 

I find that my connection with INFPs is usually based on our love of the same things like art and literature/creativity and we both appreciate each other's unique individualism - but as time goes on, we find we generally have nothing in common with our attitudes to the world, or people, or moral values. 

I think, likely due to the Fi of ENFPs and INFPs, seeing a big difference in values affects them more - whereas for me as an Fe user, it just doesn't. Which is why I tend to get along with Fe users better I think (not always, just moreso than Fi dom users) because they often take moral differences to heart whereas I don't see it as cause enough to end a friendship over. 

Unless of course the person has seriously 'out-there' beliefs that I would consider extreme, like racism, sexism, elitism etc. that's a bit different. 

Also, your last statement is pretty much the only issue I ever really have with ENFPs in our overall fantastic connection. The ones I have known _tend_ to lean towards believing there is 'one' morality, and it's theirs - if you don't agree with their stances, you're immediately a terrible person. And I am not a fan of the opinion that morality is objective, because I don't think it is. 

So when I argue a different viewpoint with my Fe friends, it might only hurt us mutually because we don't want to upset each other (we want harmony). The difference is with my Fi friends is that they see a difference in our moral values as something that sets us irrevocably apart and I don't get it - so it causes a rift in the relationship. Mostly in a hurt feelings way from their side and an annoyance way from mine because I don't feel it's a big deal. 

This is pretty much the sole thing that has made me end past relationships with INFPs I was friends with - like you said, we were friends before they realised our views on a subject differed. But over time, the accumulation of our different stances on various topics becomes something they can't help but be saddened over, and I start feeling pressured to start letting them hear only what makes them feel morally-righteous so I don't feel lectured all the time.


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## Midnight Mischief (Oct 1, 2016)

@lavendersnow You should take MBTI with a grain of salt not as fact. Not all Infps (assuming that the ones you are talking about are in fact infp) are the same as not all Infjs are the same. My best friend that I've known for over 10 years is an Infj. We've always gotten along so well, so much so that we've never even fought about anything. While we have a lot in common we also have differing morals and standards and that has never gotten in between our friendship. The thing is, even the personalities that are typed against each other can get along very well as long as those 2 people are mature and open minded. I know immature infps and immature infjs, they are both unpleasant to be around...what unhealthy type isn't?


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

Midnight Mischief said:


> @lavendersnow You should take MBTI with a grain of salt not as fact. Not all Infps (assuming that the ones you are talking about are in fact infp) are the same as not all Infjs are the same. My best friend that I've known for over 10 years is an Infj. We've always gotten along so well, so much so that we've never even fought about anything. While we have a lot in common we also have differing morals and standards and that has never gotten in between our friendship. The thing is, even the personalities that are typed against each other can get along very well as long as those 2 people are mature and open minded. I know immature infps and immature infjs, they are both unpleasant to be around...what unhealthy type isn't?


I'm very aware of that. Which is why I specifically specified that I was talking about the INFPs in my life. I'm not sure why you have the opinion that I take the MBTI as fact, that's a broad assumption to make without asking for clarification. As you seem to have missed, I have repeatedly said I am talking about the NFs I know alone, including annoying INFJs.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

lavendersnow said:


> because I prefer a dom Ne than dom Fi, since it's closer in nature to the way my Ni works.


Err..not to get in between your debate and certainly not because I am an INFP, and I respect your preferences but according to Jung, extroverts and introverts are miles apart, not closer in any sense and the difference is bigger than the difference between any other two functions. MBTI has taken a great leap from what Jung suggested, according to his dynamics you could draw INFP and INFJ are complimentary types while INFJ and ENFP are contrast types. So perhaps, it is something else that affects your preference because really Ne dom and Ni dom are not close at all. However I believe, Ne dom and Fi aux might be a dominant taker and the Fe aux is a happy giver, as long as the dynamics are preserved things go well, but it is prone to not preserved. While I have clashes with INFJs, I do think they are closest to me and the chemistry is just unmatchable. I can't stand ENFPs at all. The MBTI supposedly similar dynamics. MBTI is just quite not getting it, because Ne dom and Ne aux couldn't be more different.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Necrilia said:


> INFPs ..........rude accusations.


Guilty as charged  I would prefer the term brutally honest of course. It is not helping that I am not passive aggressive but outspoken too.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Back to the OP...I know I will be using broad-strokes but I think NFs can really make the worst of people. Unhealthy ones carry too much drama, vindictiveness, subjectivity. They are very prone to compensate for their weaknesses and take it out on other people when their ego is hurt. I find Fe types not honest, at times outright liars, even when they try to be more honest, they take the whole people-pleaser thing too far and worry about their images too much that they let people believe differently and hide and try to save their image sometimes at the cost of another person's. They are not loyal as NTs. Fi types when unhealthy and young tend to victimize themselves and can't deal with the world very well and can be avoidant to a fault. They can stuck in a totally head in the clouds, self loathing phases rather than trying to change it. Self- righteous, might be irrational and subjective. Ne doms are, in my experience, by far the worst, worst of the worst, fickle, selfish, shallow, manipulative, vindictive, irrational, self-centered, self-catering, greedy, materialistic, me me me people. All of the ENFPs I have known, with no exceptions show narcissistic personality disorder traits and I have known 10+ in close, 15 definitely acquaintanced. ENFJs, smooth operators and master manipulators. Can be histrionic.

Beta quadra could easily destroy the world to compensate their fragile ego. Namely INFp (MBTI INFJ or INFP), ENFj and ESTp. Most dangerous people. and yes I am IEI >.>)


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

nichya said:


> Err..not to get in between your debate and certainly not because I am an INFP, and I respect your preferences but according to Jung, extroverts and introverts are miles apart, not closer in any sense and the difference is bigger than the difference between any other two functions. MBTI has taken a great leap from what Jung suggested, according to his dynamics you could draw INFP and INFJ are complimentary types while INFJ and ENFP are contrast types. So perhaps, it is something else that affects your preference because really Ne dom and Ni dom are not close at all. However I believe, Ne dom and Fi aux might be a dominant taker and the Fe aux is a happy giver, as long as the dynamics are preserved things go well, but it is prone to not preserved. While I have clashes with INFJs, I do think they are closest to me and the chemistry is just unmatchable. I can't stand ENFPs at all. The MBTI supposedly similar dynamics. MBTI is just quite not getting it, because Ne dom and Ne aux couldn't be more different.


By the logic of being complimentary, giving something in a relationship that the other doesn't possess, both ENFPs and INFPs are complimentary to INFJs since we do not share functions - we bring something completely new to the relationship. I completely stand by Ne and Ni being close - they are the same, but the inverse of each other, two sides of the same coin. The same does not go for Ni and Fi. They are in completely different realms and concerning completely different topics - Ni = understanding/meaning, Fi = values and beliefs.

I do not see any theory or theorist's words as law, that includes Jung. I am an INFJ and I know myself very well and I see clear patterns in who I get along with and there is too a pattern in my INFP relationships. It doesn't last because their Fi couldn't be further from my Ni or what I personally desire in a relationship - any two types can get along, but there are still patterns as to which types do and don't. 

Ne is significantly closer to Ni in every experience I've ever had than Fi - Fi is completely foreign to my world. Considering I have Fi dom siblings and cousins, I know this all too well.

Being an Ni dom, my relationships with other intuitive dominants is unparalleled, completely unparalleled and that seems to be the census among INFJs and their relationships, both platonic and romantic. The same does not go for our relationships with those who have an introverted dominant function and there is certainly a pattern in INFJ forums where we explore our similarities with INFPs and come to the conclusion that we are more different than similar. We look very similar on face value, but we couldn't be more different unless one of us was a sensor and the other intuitive. 

On a personal level alone, I do not have much chemistry with INFPs. I always feel I'm speaking a completely different language to them and we do not see eye-to-eye. Ne doms are 100% closer to how I function as an INFJ than Fi doms or any other introverted dominate type, besides INTJs - who we are extremely alike behaviourally, whether I get along with them or not.

That being said, as you have mentioned above, I do find them incredibly annoying very often - but then I find INFPs too sensitive and it appeals to my Fe in a negative way as then I'm walking on eggshells trying not to disrupt the peace. I feel I have a much easier time saying whatever is on my mind to fellow INTJs or to Ne doms, especially ENTPs.

Every personality system will suggest different matches for compatibility but I have yet to see one that says INFJs and INFPs are a good match - because on a general level, I do not think we are. It's great that you have INFJs close to you in your life, but I've been there and done that with the INFPs in my and it hasn't worked out, even after being some of the longest lasting relationships I've had over years. They've come to an end for a reason.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

lavendersnow said:


> By the logic of being complimentary, giving something in a relationship that the other doesn't possess, both ENFPs and INFPs are complimentary to INFJs since we do not share functions - we bring something completely new to the relationship. I completely stand by Ne and Ni being close - they are the same, but the inverse of each other, two sides of the same coin. The same does not go for Ni and Fi. They are in completely different realms and concerning completely different topics - Ni = understanding/meaning, Fi = values and beliefs.
> 
> I do not see any theory or theorist's words as law, that includes Jung. I am an INFJ and I know myself very well and I see clear patterns in who I get along with and there is too a pattern in my INFP relationships. It doesn't last because their Fi couldn't be further from my Ni or what I personally desire in a relationship - any two types can get along, but there are still patterns as to which types do and don't.
> 
> ...


Well, I didn't say we would make best matches, I mean cmon look at us debating this lol. So, complimentary, how so? MBTI is all about ego, however we have another major, perhaps more important drive and that is the id. INFPs function alignment is Fi & Ne, meaning they are using these consciously and in an improved way however they also are geared to use and have strong Ni, however it is unconscious. And it is the Fi for the INFJ. This is an important distinction for the introverts, because for an introvert, ego and id are not the same, the id is influenced by the archetype (unconscious) while for the extrovert ego is id, what you see is what you get. So while you might be thinking you are only your ego, you would be denying your id, suppressing it, so it might become super annoying but you would be subconsciously attracted to it OR you could integrate with your id, which is a higher level of humanity you can reach and you accept it a part of you - and you should cause it is.

Well, I was trying to say that your conclusion to compare two functions, is not quite right in Jungian sense (even if it is in yours) Jung does start evaluating introverts and extroverts and then evaluates the functions. MBTI is the one who "thinks" Ne is Ne in every aspect, while it is not. I will be copy pasting the socionics explainations. Well another thing is, I find INFJs to be least suspecting of their best MBTI matches in theory, however there was a poll of experience of a long relationship which was implying just the opposite, also wandering other subforums, I have also noticed that say INFPs don't think their best match is ENFJ and at least half of the INTJ are baffled with and can't stand ENFPs. 

Now, I believe ENTPs are different breed, while their fickleness can be annoying, they offer intellectual debates and being a devil's advocate which I absolutely need. With ENFPs I just feel the interaction is too shallow and intellectually boring.

And no, I don't know what is a best match. I can tell what is not but I wouldn't know what is best. I just know that socionics is better at explaining why supposedly MBTI matches are hell, and that MBTI is just so made up that they paired intuitives with their extroverted sensors opposites first, because Jung talked of such instant attraction (...what attraction, really?? >.>) and then they decided to go with intuitive opposites instead for no reason at all. But I believe Jung's emphasis on introverts and extroverts and how extroverts are blind to the introvert's unconscious but at the same time drawn to it without even knowing why. While this makes an INFP instantly noticeable and magnetic to ENFJs, there always is and ever will be a wall between us. I know that my true match is an introvert and I know that I am drawn to Te, however they don't really make my heart skip a beat like the NFJ. Another point to support my appetite of Te is Jung's definitions of wholeness, of finding your animus in your partner and vice a versa. Also, INTJs are straight up adorable T^T 

Anyways...This is why I believe it comes down to the person, like what music they listened to in high school, how they did feel as a child, as a teenager, are they mad at the world like me?.. and if we go by personality theories, I would say enneagrams play a much bigger part in close relationships, and then possibly the quadra is pretty much important (and Gulenko's erotic attitudes by extension - perfect guide ) 

And about the INFJs in my life, I do think our curse is that we can not communicate well as default, so it really does help to get both parties speak their mind and just ask than assume. I am actually quite sad one of my close INFJs will be leaving soon. And it is funny cause we had so many downs,I bet I wrote it all over here. But then again I am a 4 and he is a 2, so I think that makes it much smoother and deeper. An enneagram 6 INFJ is truly annoying when they have slights and false assumptions. I do think 4s and 6s are very very close and can complete each other, but this is only possible when they are both on their healthy sides while interacting, otherwise it is just a recipe for disaster.

Maybe it is the whole package or something that comes with it, but again I can't find anything that would support Ne and Ni functions on a similar realm. And yes, I don't but the theories or go with them blindly, especially after MBTI (never) but we -are- talking about functions based on Jung's theories.

Edit: Oh actually, from observations I can say, the best ever match there is ESTP female & ESFJ male. Just perfection, dynamic and growing.

Ne as Leading Function

The individual is skilled at generating intellectual interest and curiosity in others and using others' curiosity to get them to do things. He easily sees parallels between different situations, areas of knowledge or skill, and people, and likes to establish contacts across different fields of knowledge and social groups, which allows him to be part of many things at once. He enjoys considering differing viewpoints and perspectives and seeing if they can be reconciled. He enjoys the beginning stages of just about anything - new projects, acquiring new skills, experiencing new people and relationships. Preparing for and launching something new is seen as having greater value than the process of experiencing what one already has and finishing what one has begun. The concept of "finishing" seems foreign to him. Instead of taking care to finish things and tie up all loose ends, he tends to drop things when he can't handle them any longer or realize that he has neglected them for too long (this might be equally related to suggestive introverted sensing).

Ne as Creative Function

The individual likes to apply his insight to specific situations, relating them to the bigger picture. He also enjoys discussing idealized circumstances or what could be rather than what is. Consequently, he usually has high standards, even unreasonably so, for those around him. He does not pursue ideas or new opportunities merely for their own sake, but for their application to specific questions and issues that he feels are important.

I couldn't find the part but it compared to Ne of all Ne users with metaphors, such as

Ne of an ENFP is "how about if I bike to work today?"
Ne of an INFP is "an imagery land of flowers riding bikes"
Ne of an INTP is "how would you bike if there was no gravity?"
Ne of an ENTP is "how do I make a bike that could fly?"

Fi as Leading Function

The individual sees reality primarily through static personal ethics and stable interpersonal bonds between individuals, including himself, where the status of such interpersonal bonds is determined by his personal ethics. The individual is very confident in evaluating the ethical or moral qualities, and their consistency, of other people. This makes the individual seem "judgemental" or "self-righteous" to people less so inclined. If he has difficulty in deciding the status of a personal relationship, he will take action to try to reach a conclusion but if that continues to elude him, he will regard the relationship as not worth it. His own sense of constancy in personal ethics and in his relationships with others is a very strong factor in his sense of self-worth. Fi in this position implies the ability to almost instantly recognize whether someone is a friend or an enemy, whether they are demonstrating good will or ill will, and whether they are drawn to or repelled by the individual.

Fi as Creative Function

The individual is very adept at perceiving, establishing, and maintaining personal bonds between people. However, these bonds are often perceived as being situational and flexible rather than static. The individual is inclined to focus on establishing personal bonds with other people in the context of realizing or following perceptions from his base function. The person easily creates a sense of closeness and kinship between people by expressing like and acceptance, but these sentiments are situational rather than an expression of permanent feelings. If the person's mood or external situation changes, he or she may "turn off" the feelings instantly, even forgetting whom they had created the feeling of kinship with.

Ni as Leading Function

As a base function, Ni generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world, but it can also result in a great deal of laziness and apparent inactivity. Because the individual gets his or her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with leading Ni may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he or she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much. The ability to transcend the axis of time and understand the cause and effect relationships that occur is also a feature, sometimes resulting in the ability to accurately predict general future trends and outcomes of certain events.

Ni as Creative Function

The individual likes to predict the further development of the situations and topics that he is interested in. The individual applies his highly developed sense of vision not as an end in itself, but as a way of promoting the development of his more central interests and activities.


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## RexMaximus (Jun 29, 2016)

I find that NFs in general can be quite oversensitive, passive aggressive, and irrational. ENFs can be really shallow if they don't ever bother to introspect. NFPs can be depressive and self loathing. NFJs are too worried about pleasing everyone and being well liked. But not to fear, we're all imperfect beings and I tend to really like NFs.


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## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

RexMaximus said:


> I find that NFs in general can be quite oversensitive, passive aggressive, and irrational. ENFs can be really shallow if they don't ever bother to introspect. NFPs can be depressive and self loathing. NFJs are too worried about pleasing everyone and being well liked. But not to fear, we're all imperfect beings and I tend to really like NFs.


When making these generalisations about the various NFs - I feel it is important to take the person's Enneatype, and sex, into account as well. I can break down how Enneagram (drives, desires, fear) will influence an NF's personality:

Enneagram 1 stereotype: The "Moralising" NF - desires righteousness
Enneagram 2: The "Altruistic" NF - desires universal love 
Enneagram 3: The "Ambitious" NF - desires fame and competence
Enneagram 4: The "Bohemian" NF - desires self-expression
Enneagram 5: The "Idiosyncratic" NF - desires knowledge
Enneagram 6: The "Feisty" NF - desires safety and security
Enneagram 7: The "Entertaining" NF - desires freedom
Enneagram 9: The "Reticent" NF - desires harmony and balance

(I excluded 8s because hardly any NFs seem to have be E8s, so no offense if you're an exception.) 

My point is that NFs come in a lot of different flavours, so we are not all equally likely to be card-carrying idealists from dawn till dusk. I am deeply idealistic in my personal life, but very pragmatic in how I view the world at large. You won't see me at a #BlackLivesMatter or #RefugeesAreWelcomeHere riot...er, sorry, "protest" :wink:

Another pet gripe of mine is that people tend to automatically assume that NFs are women. They thus ignore the different manner in which the type manifests in a man. From observation, male NFs tend to develop and express their Perceiving function more (Ni or Ne) whereas female NFs tend to develop and their Judging function more (Fi or Fe). This is why I for one probably come across as a fair bit rougher and more openly self-promoting than most of the NFs on PerC. I would not describe myself as either over-sensitive or passive-aggressive, and will happily debate any of the NTs.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

RexMaximus said:


> I find that NFs in general can be quite oversensitive, passive aggressive, and irrational. ENFs can be really shallow if they don't ever bother to introspect. NFPs can be depressive and self loathing. NFJs are too worried about pleasing everyone and being well liked. But not to fear, we're all imperfect beings and I tend to really like NFs.


I at times feel very self-conscious about this. Even I find it troubling to be around NFs at times, it could drive NTs insane I suppose. To grow up in an NF family and such. Always reminds me Ender's Game and how he refrains from provocations of feelers and genuinely finds it unnecessary and pointless to get revenge or react. Perfect INTJ example.


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## megmento (Jul 26, 2016)

nichya said:


> I at times feel very self-conscious about this. Even I find it troubling to be around NFs at times, it could drive NTs insane I suppose. To grow up in an NF family and such. Always reminds me Ender's Game and how he refrains from provocations of feelers and genuinely finds it unnecessary and pointless to get revenge or react. Perfect INTJ example.


I had this INTJ friend who told me I was the only person to aggravate him so much and boil his blood down his last veins. I guess it's what you meant by driving them insane especially when I find his remarks too scathing and personal, that when you look at a bigger perspective, he was only trying to point out my flaws and faulty actions to save me from stagnation, complacency or further erroneousness. It was difficult at first. I still find it 'somewhat' difficult but of course, coiling myself in my room and bawling my eyes out is not the best solution (though deep in my heart there will be a slight twinge in my chest, a disappointed voice telling me that I am not good enough). I needed to see it in a different and more positive light so that in the end of the day, we would still meet halfway.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

I dunno, I think that at times though, is that quite often much of anything pertaining to personal feelings or expected to be ignored, and thus the imperative is to be cold and rational all of the time, whilst this is not really the only way to approach viewing or interacting with the world. The are many different broad outlooks that can often be just as reasonable or appropriate. 

I've always just thought it's how we are, and sort of a natural instance of communication, wherein people unfiltered divulge details on their personal thoughts and feelings, that do not really hold allegiance to any one specific entity outside of self.

I feel as though the opposite is quite cold, and lifeless feeling.


I mean, people are just who they are, there is not appropriate emotional stance that one should always take to the world. 

It seems like a lot of NF's sort of hate themselves though. Expecting to cater to others emotions can be pretty draining at times, but often that's what causes disarray or dysfunction in the human world.


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## Midnight Mischief (Oct 1, 2016)

lavendersnow said:


> I'm very aware of that. Which is why I specifically specified that I was talking about the INFPs in my life. I'm not sure why you have the opinion that I take the MBTI as fact, that's a broad assumption to make without asking for clarification. As you seem to have missed, I have repeatedly said I am talking about the NFs I know alone, including annoying INFJs.


I'm sorry I didn't intend for my post to come off that way. I think it's difficult to get your main point across over typed messages. I know you were applying your personal experience to INFPs that you actually know but it also seemed to affect your views of INFPs in general, or at least that's what I derived from your own words "INFPs and INFJs have little in common" (which I disagree with it my personal experiences with INFJs) and not seeing yourself having an INFP seriously in your life. But I'm guessing you probably didn't mean for your post to be interpreted that way either.

Thing is we all have so many different experiences that maybe most of em are just self fulfilling prophecies lol.


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

Midnight Mischief said:


> I'm sorry I didn't intend for my post to come off that way. I think it's difficult to get your main point across over typed messages. I know you were applying your personal experience to INFPs that you actually know but it also seemed to affect your views of INFPs in general, or at least that's what I derived from your own words "INFPs and INFJs have little in common" (which I disagree with it my personal experiences with INFJs) and not seeing yourself having an INFP seriously in your life. But I'm guessing you probably didn't mean for your post to be interpreted that way either.
> 
> Thing is we all have so many different experiences that maybe most of em are just self fulfilling prophecies lol.


Of course my personal experiences with INFPs affects my overall view of them - that's how we all make judgements and assume in the future who we generally will get along with and not. I never thought my opinion on INFPs was similar to the census among INFJs until I spoke to other INFJs directly about their relationships with them and the personal feelings started matching up with the general feeling that it is often, not always, an initial attract which doesn't last long.

On face value, it should be that we get along better than most other types, looking so similar. But when you get down to functions you realise we have nothing in common and the similarities are surface deep. I wouldn't stand by my belief that we have little in common if it didn't match the census among my fellow INFJs and INFPs too. I would just chalk up the misunderstandings to a personal difference, but I believe it is more than my personal issue - it is an INFJ/INFP issue. 

I hardly believe by saying that, that INFPs and INFJs cannot be friends because we can - some of my longest friendships have been with INFPs and I see the same in my other INFJ friends. I meant it when I said I don't see INFPs making a permanent stay in my life because so far they haven't - that can always change, but I'm waiting for it to. The initial attraction is strong but it fizzles quickly.

I find it amusing that so many INFPs argue that we're very alike, and have to argue with us that we are - as you said, that's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy if the manner in which you have to convey that to fellow INFJs is through an argument - perhaps that in itself counters your argument lol


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

lavendersnow said:


> I find it amusing that so many INFPs argue that we're very alike


Err, is this all you have taken away with what is written? Your experience is something but you are actually trying to tie it to the theory while also dismissing it where it doesn't fit. I think perhaps it was a waste of time, and worse you have come to your personal conclusion anyway. How do you enjoy your debates with ENTPs if you can't debate within the frame built by both sides? Classic of NFs, truly.


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

nichya said:


> Err, is this all you have taken away with what is written? Your experience is something but you are actually trying to tie it to the theory while also dismissing it where it doesn't fit. I think perhaps it was a waste of time, and worse you have come to your personal conclusion anyway. How do you enjoy your debates with ENTPs if you can't debate within the frame built by both sides? Classic of NFs, truly.


I think you're taking this a lot more seriously than I am and I think you're perceiving my words a lot more negatively that I intended.

If I wasn't willing to throw ideas back and forth, I wouldn't be replying to you repeatedly quoting me. I'm not dismissing the theories where it doesn't give me what I want, I have yet to be handed any information that contradicts what I'm saying. If you have, send it. I wrote an entire post and you selected a single sentence to have grievances with - that suggests you're ignoring all of the other information I spent time writing which is only further proving what I said about INFPs selectively hearing what they want to hear to see if it matches up against their values and their own view of themselves (Fi). 

You seem to think I despise INFPs, I don't. If I did, I wouldn't be having this conversation at all because I wouldn't be willing to have my views challenged. I'm not sure what your issue is, but perhaps be willing to understand I'm discussing this with you because it's interesting. If you're offended by what I'm saying, then perhaps you shouldn't keep prolonging the conversation. I don't know, it's up to you.

I enjoy debating with ENTPs very much because their values are often a lot less defined and solid than INFPs and ISFPs who lead with Fi. Therefore they are a lot less stuck in one frame of thinking because they bounce from idea to idea so quickly. That being said, they often have a shorter attention-span than INFPs.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

lavendersnow said:


> I think you're taking this a lot more seriously than I am and I think you're perceiving my words a lot more negatively that I intended.
> 
> If I wasn't willing to throw ideas back and forth, I wouldn't be replying to you repeatedly quoting me. I'm not dismissing the theories where it doesn't give me what I want, I have yet to be handed any information that contradicts what I'm saying. If you have, send it. I wrote an entire post and you selected a single sentence to have grievances with - that suggests you're ignoring all of the other information I spent time writing which is only further proving what I said about INFPs selectively hearing what they want to hear to see if it matches up against their values and their own view of themselves (Fi).
> 
> ...


Well first of all, I feel like you have a bias thinking that what you say makes INFPs despise it. I am not trying to change your belief, and I will not invalidate your experience, because I have had the worst and recurring experience with ENFPs and I know that I tend to favor my personal and close experience with many of them in that situation rather than what everyone else thinks. And of course, I am not being dismissive to all those points you have written but I can not comment on it because it is how you feel and how you feel is something that is not open for debate. It is just that you keep referring to functions and you explain your kinship according to those but then you also dismiss points that are very inherent to personality type theories. That is the only part I was trying to have a conversation with but the takeaway comes down to something that is so stripped of everything debated? Oh well. And the frame I mentioned is, you can think of it as chesspieces or game boards, while I try to introduce function theory and the misunderstandings, I want the talk build up on that. But I rather find your responses limited to experience, on which noone can say much really, except that maybe talking about your experience or explaining a possible misunderstanding, but then it is just two people talking about themselves and not much so, an objective debate. No worries though, I find almost all NFs or feelers are prone to this, somehow. 

I know you will hate me for this but your posts intrigued me when you said something about being quoted )


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

nichya said:


> Well first of all, I feel like you have a bias thinking that what you say makes INFPs despise it. I am not trying to change your belief, and I will not invalidate your experience, because I have had the worst and recurring experience with ENFPs and I know that I tend to favor my personal and close experience with many of them in that situation rather than what everyone else thinks. And of course, I am not being dismissive to all those points you have written but I can not comment on it because it is how you feel and how you feel is something that is not open to debate. It is just that you keep referring to functions and you explain your kinship according to those but then you also dismiss points that are very inherent to personality type theories. That is the only part I was trying to have a conversation with but the takeaway comes down to something that is so stripped of everything debated? Oh well. And the frame I mentioned is, you can think of it as chesspieces or game boards, while I try to introduce function theory and the misunderstandings, I want the talk build up on that. But I rather find your responses limited to experience, which noone can say much really, except that maybe talking about your experience or explaining a possible misunderstanding, but then it is just two people talking about themselves and not much so, an objective debate. No worries though, I find almost all NFs or feelers are prone to this, somehow.
> 
> I know you will hate me for this but your posts intrigued me when you said something about being quoted )


Well you'll realise that I have seen you express your dislike for ENFPs repeatedly and I didn't challenge it. Why? Because it's your life and even though I have a strong attraction to that type, it would be immature and honestly, ridiculous for me to be personally offended that we don't share a like for them. Many of the negative traits you label about them are precisely the reason I have issues with them - no type is perfect. But my experience has been profoundly more positive than yours - that creates an obvious bias on both our parts.

I understand that people on PerC don't want to feel their entire type is being personally attacked, but I also think it's helpful to no-one to only talk about the types we really like and stroke their egos. Many people hate INFJs openly on this site, we're a big target for hate for many reasons. Unless I'm willing to get over the possibility of being personally offended, I'm not going to put myself in the middle of a debate with someone who has an obvious bias against my type.

The reason I keep mentioning personal experiences is because functions only get you to a limited understanding of how we work together IRL. Again, I have yet to see you provide information which contradicts what I'm saying. So until you do, I remain with the opinion I've always had. Nothing you have said contradicts my view on INFP/INFJ relationships.

I can put it explicitly - I think INFPs and INFJs have little in common - if I put our functions side by side, it only backs up what I said even if tomorrow my feelings changed to "Wow, INFPs are my favourite type".

I'm bringing up my personal experience because it can be backed by fact. But the MBTI is a theory, cognitive functions is a theory, just because our functions have nothing in common doesn't mean we can't have friends of each other's type. That's not what I'm saying, nor is it ever what I said.

If you're an ENTJ for example and one theory keeps telling you that an INTP is your perfect match, it is barely helpful to only quote the way the functions compliment each other. Why? Because unless that ENTJ has met an INTP, function analysis only gets you so far - you might get the gist as to why your types should get along, but you have no first-hand experience in whether they do or not. I talk about my personal experiences because functions aren't enough, socionics aren't enough. It's like looking at a science textbook and an explanation of a chemical reaction without actually having any experience handling any one of the chemicals involved in that experiment.

Just as you say I keep talking about my experiences, you almost always relate your problems with NFs with the fundamental flaws you say NFs have - it goes both ways. If you don't want me to mention the INFPs I have personally known to supplement my viewpoints, you're going to have to let go of your preconceived notions that all NFs fail to communicate/debate. I am not of the opinion that Thinkers are somehow superior in the realm of debating because they're often not. Just because I am a Feeler does not mean I am unable to be objective. 

As I said, if I were to completely ignore my personal experiences with INFPs, which would then be an objective discussion, I would still be correct because we share no functions. It doesn't get any more complicated than that and that is what I'm trying to get through to you. Whether I adore or despise INFPs, that will never impact our functions - they do not line up, they do not match, they are complimentary, not alike.

I'm not sure what you mean about me hating you for talking about quoting me?


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

@lavendersnow I have already explained what I had meant with complimentary and made it clear that I didn't use it to say we make a good match. Please refer to my previous post. Also, I have challenged the way you think of functions, as is, without their positions and also that how you find Ne/Ni close is by all theory books not is quite that way, especially since Jung has made such a clear distinction of introverts and extroverts, which I have explained in detail. We are talking about the very functions here so this is, I suppose, something that is not based on personal experience. I have suggested that it might be something else as the whole package, but the Ne and Ni is not close at all. Because you love ENFPs, that doesn't mean Ne and Ni is close or it doesn't mean Ne acts the same way in every position. This and the reason why you go on about personal experiences is why I believe you have taken very little from what I have said and yes, it is quite recurring that NFs stir debates to something very personal and subjective. Just as your experience with INFPs. And no my viewpoint is not set in stone, it just needs to be challenged but observing the same behavior is only feeding it. And that is actually another point and a misconception about INFPs, as you keep repeating, my core ideals are personal and strict but very rare to come between a person and me (think it of as human rights, it is common sense and there is not much wiggle room for debate for what is right and what is wrong - but there is still room for debate), all other is my ideas and you can challenge them, you can play the devil's advocate and as long as you are putting a good debate, or a new point of view and you are not conflicting, I welcome you challenging my ideas. And yet, while you tell me to let go off my NF debate bias, you want to keep your INFP bias? Just an example why, should tell enough. But yes, I think we are derailing the thread and will have to agree to disagree.


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

nichya said:


> @lavendersnow I have already explained what I had meant with complimentary and made it clear that I didn't use it to say we make a good match. Please refer to my previous post. Also, I have challenged the way you think of functions, as is, without their positions and also that how you find Ne/Ni close is by all theory books not is quite that way, especially since Jung has made such a clear distinction of introverts and extroverts, which I have explained in detail. We are talking about the very functions here so this is, I suppose, something that is not based on personal experience. I have suggested that it might be something else as the whole package, but the Ne and Ni is not close at all. Because you love ENFPs, that doesn't mean Ne and Ni is close or it doesn't mean Ne acts the same way in every position. This and the reason why you go on about personal experiences is why I believe you have taken very little from what I have said and yes, it is quite recurring that NFs stir debates to something very personal and subjective. Just as your experience with INFPs. And no my viewpoint is not set in stone, it just needs to be challenged but observing the same behavior is only feeding it. And that is actually another point and a misconception about INFPs, as you keep repeating, my core ideals are personal and strict but very rare to come between a person and me, all other is my ideas and you can challenge them, you can play the devil's advocate and as long as you are putting a good debate, or a new point of view and you are not conflicting, I welcome you challenging my ideas. And yet, while you tell me to let go off my NF debate bias, you want to keep your INFP bias? Just an example why, should tell enough. But yes, I think we are derailing the thread and will have to agree to disagree.


I think it is evident we're not even speaking the same language, so this is pointless. I didn't say you should drop your bias and me keep mine *ever*, I clearly said if you want me to drop my personal experiences from the debate, you would have to as well. _I very very clearly outlined that_: "*If you don't want me to mention the INFPs I have personally known to supplement my viewpoints, you're going to have to let go of your preconceived notions that all NFs fail to communicate/debate.* " and somehow you're misinterpreting it, again.

This is going nowhere and it's come to a point where I don't even think there's any point trying to find something to agree on. I'm done discussing this.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

lavendersnow said:


> I think it is evident we're not even speaking the same language, so this is pointless. I didn't say you should drop your bias and me keep mine *ever*, I clearly said if you want me to drop my personal experiences from the debate, you would have to as well. _I very very clearly outlined that_: "*If you don't want me to mention the INFPs I have personally known to supplement my viewpoints, you're going to have to let go of your preconceived notions that all NFs fail to communicate/debate.* " and somehow you're misinterpreting it, again.
> 
> This is going nowhere and it's come to a point where I don't even think there's any point trying to find something to agree on. I'm done discussing this.


Oh God. Agreed we talk a different language. I don't care about your input about INFPs, I have not challenged that, I have never said you shouldn't bring it up, I even said I won't invalidate it, up until you preached me about my NF bias about debating, I just wanted to turn the tables and you could have a view of how what you have said is conflicting with your own behavior. You are very stuck with your viewpoint right now.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

When I leave one thread to see the same arguments with lavendersnow on mine... *sighs* 

If that doesn't say enough by itself I just don't have the energy to explain it.

At least in this one I can say it again for the fourth time: _ This is not the thread to talk about sweeping generalisations about how much you dislike one mbti type._


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## nicoloco90 (May 3, 2010)

i'll take all the NF praise without feeling guilty or ashamed about it, since there's also plenty of stereotype trash on INFP's. So don't worry, it all evens out.
But uhh, I am kinda awesome though, definitely come closer to perfect angel than a lot of other people. I have become worse at forgiving people though, so yeah that's a flaw.


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## Necrilia (Jun 26, 2011)

Falling Foxes said:


> When I leave one thread to see the same arguments with lavendersnow on mine... *sighs*


And that is supposed to mean...?


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## Ride (Jun 30, 2016)

Speak for yourself I'm flawless!

*throws caring and love around me*


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

nicoloco90 said:


> i'll take all the NF praise without feeling guilty or ashamed about it, since there's also plenty of stereotype trash on INFP's. So don't worry, it all evens out.
> But uhh, I am kinda awesome though, definitely come closer to perfect angel than a lot of other people. I have become worse at forgiving people though, so yeah that's a flaw.


To be honest at this point I very much would like the opposite of this thread instead. Where's the balance? XD

Let me go brag about being awesome and come back to this thread to bring me back down.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

I hate it when all the NT's consider NF's as if Einstein and Mother Teresa had a baby.
We are just human beings like everyone else


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

myjazz said:


> I hate it when all the NT's consider NF's as if Einstein and Mother Teresa had a baby.
> We are just human beings like everyone else


Mother Teresa was an evil bitch though. She enjoyed the misery so that she would be seen as an angel serving the poor, serving with questionable motives and questionable ways.


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## nicoloco90 (May 3, 2010)

Falling Foxes said:


> To be honest at this point I very much would like the opposite of this thread instead. Where's the balance? XD
> 
> Let me go brag about being awesome and come back to this thread to bring me back down.


I think it is more helpful for you to understand that everyone (every type / function stacks) has their own struggles and advantages, it is not really relevant in any way to try to compare, or try bring others down, or try to gain more praise for your own typing / functions over the backs of others. What will that accomplish?

Find your own strengths and turn them in to nice gestures/threads, and instead post that. Your types/functions will be appreciated in their own ways.


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## Starry Eyed (Jan 15, 2016)

This thread is absolutely ridiculous to me. Like who the hell actually thinks NF's are 'perfect angels?' Perfection isn't real.

Also I know OP said this wouldn't be a 'bashing' thread but ranting about a group of people and listing their faults certainly is not constructive criticism. Also I'd like to be viewed as an individual. Like I get this isn't meant as a personal attack towards NF's but this sure isn't helpful or positive in any way.

If a NF hurt you go tell them or create a specific thread wanting advice to help you get closure.


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## Lakigigar (Jan 4, 2016)

Falling Foxes said:


> I know that people don't often want to dispel positive stereotypes but when those stereotypes imply that other types _can't_ be kind-hearted or as loveable as NFs I think it starts to create a rift between types and animosity in the MBTI community. That's not what MBTI should be about.
> 
> So consider this a thread to break those stereotypes, to rant about specific NFs if you want and need to. This thread isn't a hate thread and it isn't to make people think that NFs are bad people either but to prove that all types are good and bad and that it takes a lot more than type to judge a person. So no general broad-strokes of "NFs do X and I hate it"
> 
> For the NFs out there, consider this a thread to see alarm bells on how to improve yourself and not let the compliments get to your head. For non-NFs out there consider this a thread to ignore stereotypes or get advice on immature NFs.


I'm Lakigigar and I approve this message.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

Starry Eyed said:


> This thread is absolutely ridiculous to me. Like who the hell actually thinks NF's are 'perfect angels?' Perfection isn't real.
> 
> Also I know OP said this wouldn't be a 'bashing' thread but ranting about a group of people and listing their faults certainly is not constructive criticism. Also I'd like to be viewed as an individual. Like I get this isn't meant as a personal attack towards NF's but this sure isn't helpful or positive in any way.
> 
> If a NF hurt you go tell them or create a specific thread wanting advice to help you get closure.


Yeah well in hindsight the thread backfired.

And it was meant to be a thread about individuals. Not groups. As I keep trying to say.


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## Lakigigar (Jan 4, 2016)

i also love the bitchfight in this topic, and why am I not surprised when I see who is involved in it.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Another point, NFs are politically correct 

Give me a rest, it is a type forum. I would like to believe we are all individuals and will be evaluated accordingly but we are talking about generalizations here, as the site suggests.


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## Starry Eyed (Jan 15, 2016)

Falling Foxes said:


> Yeah well in hindsight the thread backfired.


lol well with the way it was worded I couldn't see it being much of a success...
I also honestly don't really see people thinking NF's are holy angels. 
In fact some of them are indeed passive aggressive assholes, myself included occasionally ha but mostly only on this forum.


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## Necrilia (Jun 26, 2011)

nichya said:


> I would prefer the term brutally honest of course.


Yup. That passive-aggressiveness I've mentioned...


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Necrilia said:


> Yup. That passive-aggressiveness I've mentioned...


How so? When it is not passive in nature..


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## Necrilia (Jun 26, 2011)

nichya said:


> How so? When it is not passive in nature..


You were still indirectly implying whatever you wanted to imply. 

Look, I don´t want to fight with you. Just, please, stop with comments which could potentially derail the thread, start a flame war or lead to conclusions which serve no purpose here.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Necrilia said:


> You were still indirectly implying whatever you wanted to imply.
> 
> Look, I don´t want to fight with you. Just, please, stop with comments which could potentially derail the thread, start a flame war or lead to conclusions which serve no purpose here.


I wasn't being passive aggressive at all, I tell people what I think even if it is brutally honest and I don't understand how you can categorize this as passive aggressiveness.

You, however, are you out of your mind? What is this text you have written me of your imagined slights? I have no words.


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## AshOrLey (May 28, 2016)

This thread is making me lmao

I think it's the title turning everyone into sassy kitties


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## Necrilia (Jun 26, 2011)

nichya said:


> I wasn't being passive aggressive at all, I tell people what I think even if it is brutally honest and I don't understand how you can categorize this as passive aggressiveness.
> 
> You, however, are you out of your mind? What is this text you have written me of your imagined slights? I have no words.


It wasn't about categorizing. It was about you saying that the part about "rude accusations" could be replaced with "being brutally honest".
In my experiences - those weren't usually situations with people who were brutally honest. Those were situations where I was actually accused of something in a very, exceptionally, rude way. That's why I've typed it down. 

And no, I'm not out of my mind. That text is real, because, to be honest - I don't know if I should take you seriously or not. I've noticed you like to spice up topics, like to get offended for whatever reasons or feel like joking at times with your posts... How am I supposed to take you seriously then?
How am I supposed to do that when you're so much work already when it comes to figuring out your wishes and intentions in your posts?


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Necrilia said:


> It wasn't about categorizing. It was about you saying that the part about "rude accusations" could be replaced with "being brutally honest".
> In my experiences - those weren't usually situations with people who were brutally honest. Those were situations where I was actually accused of something in a very, exceptionally, rude way. That's why I've typed it down.
> 
> And no, I'm not out of my mind. That text is real, because, to be honest - I don't know if I should take you seriously or not. I've noticed you like to spice up topics, like to get offended for whatever reasons or feel like joking at times with your posts... How am I supposed to take you seriously then?
> How am I supposed to do that when you're so much work already when it comes to figuring out your wishes and intentions in your posts?


Well I playfully agreed about a bunch of bad names you gave us and gave my personal opinion on just one I didn't see fit and you think this is passive aggressiveness somehow?

And oh the irony, the irony that is taking space as much as an elephant in room you have decided all those things about me and started a fight too. I don't even know you, obviously you are the one who is being rude and who is accusing others because you have imagined some slight and you have a bias against me. 

JUST WOW.

Maybe those people had good points.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

I just want this thread to die now. What have I created?!

*lightning flashes behind as I look at the monster it is*


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