# A very n00b thread



## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

I know that I shouldn't ask these, but I just want to check my own knowledge and test something. So, please, if you'd just bear with me. Thanks!

i just wanted to ask you how is my understanding of some of core socio ideas: namely functions and IAs that go in there. Here, let me begin:

*Se:*

The ability to use your own senses to influence the world. Also, the visibility of boundaries, states of power etc. It makes you all sorts of kinesthetic.

*Si:*

tbh: ??? . I will not flog you MBTI definition because I won't. That's not the point of this thread. I'd say that it has got something to do with desires, comfort and past. I REALLY CAN'T SEE THIS ONE! (important?)

*Ne:*

The ability to think in diverging method. Also, the ability to quickly think(Nes often have a quick wit). This IA often makes people kinda scatterbrained-or impatient. It makes you talk and talk and talk and talK and taLK and Talk and TAlk and TAlK and tALK and TALK. Did I mention it makes you into a motourmouth?

*Ni:*

The ability to think in converging method. Also, the preference for dreaming, fantasizing and some kind of insights based on various unrelated phenomena. People with strong Ni like to use metaphors, symbols, that kind of thing. They shoulsn't talk as much.

*Te:*

The ability to organise stuff so it proceeds efficiently. Very often linked to an algorithmic way of thinking. Why is it so? Well, if you think like an algorithm does, it's very easy to spot a mistake or an error in thinking, wouldn't you say?

*Ti:*

...blah blah blah... f ○ g(x) = 2 + cos ( 1 - 0,4x ) ... WHATEVER! Details, setails, DETAILS, DEFINITIONS /wrist -> my eyes bleed. GG

*Fe:*

The ability to captivate. Or in other words, to propagate your own feelings onto onlookers. This function is VERY important when it comes to performance arts(dance, acting, SINGING ESPECIALLY!). It also gives you an ability to sense how you should behave and to adapt to that behaviour.

*Fi:*

The ability to relate, judge good/evil, internalise emotions, stuff like that. This is a core value of any good Crusader(or a Witch Hunter for that matter!). Contrary to popular belief, it's not mushy mushy(that's Fe for you!). Fi can be VERY harsh when the difference in moralities, viewpoints etc are observed. Even unyielding and at times cold. It also imbues you with passion. Why? Internalised emotions = GG.

Now for functions:

*BASE:

*What you are most able to use. The IA that occupies this role consumes you whole. It colours your way of talking, your way of walking, your way of dressing. It totally consumes you end colours you into whatever it wants. Ne makes you hyper, Fi moralistic, Te hyper organised etc. This function is used to unload your inner desires. You can't keep quiet about this one...

*CREATIVE(I call it "PRODUCTIVE"):*

The kind of "product" you offer society. Extroverts create atmosphere based on 2nd, while Introverts create products based on 2nd. So, Fi 2nd would create righteous, supportive atmosphere, while Ti would create a flawless product(no doubt about that -> Ti would spend an ETERNITY creating it! ZZZzzzZzz).

*ROLE*:

What you feel obliged to do even in spite it causing you stress an exhaustion. It's very important to note that when you activate this one, the base gets shut down. Hence, this function which is not THAT WEAK(not at all actually!), gets overlooked because of a simple reason: because of a base function. "NO ENCROACHING ON MY TURF Noob ktnxbai!" <- says base to role.

*POLR/WEAK:

*Just to make one thing clear: the IA occupying this one does not have to be weak. A person just feels a great stress and a great unease using it and hence it gets completely shut down. A person's psychological Achiles heel. It's unwise to broadcast it. Fe here would make you oblivious to emotional expression(both your own and of other parties) while Ni would make you unable to use imagination OR unable to control it.

*SUGGESTIVE:
*
This one is an inverse version of a base function. In other words, this is a main dual seeking function. It is so unconscious that you only realise that you like it when you literally STUMBLE over it. You don't speak anything of it, you don't act out of it. But you do unconsciously scan the area for the signs of this one. Hence, I like to call it a "hearing function". You can consume this one until no tomorrow once you find it. But it's not located within you(well technically it is, but it is locked beyond 3 meter thick Durasteel gate with an additional Force Field)...

*MOBILISING:*

This is yet another of dual seeking functions. Why is it even called "mobilising"? Well, because it mobilises you to look for a "product" in your environment. You'll even broadcast(consciously or no) that you are looking for it. Fi would constantly grumble about the lack of morale, Te about Chaos(no, not that one!) and Se about the lack of things to do(I guess). Once the message is broadcast it looks for a potential recipent. And who is that recipent? You guessed it! A person with just that IA in PRODUCTIVE function! This is one of the fastest methods of seeing who really listens you etc. Hint: DON'T RELY TOO MUCH ON THIS ONE! Both FiNe and TiNe will arrange your messy thoughts just fine. An inverse function of a CREATIVE/PRODUCTIVE function.

*last two: who cares about them. You use them but not seriously anyhow.
*
So, would those conclussions be alright?

Oh, one more tiny, insignificant thing: Do you see any mobilising fnct in this thread? When I was thinking of posting, one occured to me tbh...


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## ALongTime (Apr 19, 2014)

I agree with most of what you said, but just some thoughts and extra things to think about, mostly for interest so please don't be offended if you know it already. :happy:

I should make a disclaimer that this is just my personal take on it as well, some things are disputed.



Ixim said:


> *Se:*
> 
> The ability to use your own senses to influence the world. Also, the visibility of boundaries, states of power etc. It makes you all sorts of kinesthetic.
> 
> ...


Si is more present-oriented than in MBTI, in MBTI it's usually seen as being about past-experiences (past would be abstract and therefore more N in Socionics), I wouldn't say it has anything to do with the past here. It's about physical sensations, and things like being able to tell comfort from discomfort in the personal physical sense. It contrasts with Se which is the objective equivalent and more about manipulating the physical world around you, including beyond what you experience personally. I guess a lot of Socionics Si would be attributed to Se in MBTI, and at least some of MBTI Si would be more Ni in Socionics, particularly learning from past experiences etc.



> *BASE:
> 
> *What you are most able to use.


Actually you're equally able to use Base and Demonstrative (8th function) (and least able to use POLR and and Suggestive).



> *ROLE*:
> 
> What you feel obliged to do even in spite it causing you stress an exhaustion. It's very important to note that when you activate this one, the base gets shut down. Hence, this function which is not THAT WEAK(not at all actually!), gets overlooked because of a simple reason: because of a base function. "NO ENCROACHING ON MY TURF Noob ktnxbai!" <- says base to role.


Also role is unvalued but it's not nearly as unvalued as POLR, you would still use it to fill in for limitations of your base function and be very conscious of it as well. It should be a lot more comfortable than POLR because it matches your temperament (an introverted rational will have an introverted rational role function). I read/heard somewhere, I can't remember where, that your suggestive function is so valued partly because it takes stress off your role function, so if you have an abundance of Te information around you, you don't have to use Ti so much.



> *POLR/WEAK:
> 
> *Just to make one thing clear: the IA occupying this one does not have to be weak. A person just feels a great stress and a great unease using it and hence it gets completely shut down. A person's psychological Achiles heel. It's unwise to broadcast it. Fe here would make you oblivious to emotional expression(both your own and of other parties) while Ni would make you unable to use imagination OR unable to control it.


Actually, it is weak by definition, as well as stressful.

The way I see the weakest two functions, POLR and Suggestive, is having a lack of refinement. It can be "all or nothing"; you might not use it at all or you might overuse it to negative results. So for example an EII with POLR Se might be very passive and non-assertive, but another (probably stressed and unhealthy) EII could come out as over-the-top and unreasonably demanding and angry, and be constantly stressed as a result. On the other hand someone with strong Se can moderate it better and use it wisely and effectively.



> *last two: who cares about them. You use them but not seriously anyhow.*


Well you do use them all the time, arguably they're the most innate and natural functions, and that's why they're so unconcious. They're what you think about when you don't believe you're thinking anything productive. They go hand-in-hand with your first two functions, having the information elements swapped just on their subjective/objective side and I suppose could be considered two parts of the same thing, just with one part of it valued more.


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## Ixim (Jun 19, 2013)

ALongTime said:


> I agree with most of what you said, but just some thoughts and extra things to think about, mostly for interest so please don't be offended if you know it already. :happy:
> 
> I should make a disclaimer that this is just my personal take on it as well, some things are disputed.
> 
> ...


Yes thank you. In between me writing that and now I realised few things on my own. What Si is, how it's used, the fact that PoLR specifically has 3 natural states: avoidant, bunkered, unrestrained and about the last two, I lost the will to write, what can I say. It's not that I think that or don't know about them, I just lost the will to write. So those are some things that I learned.

And that snippet about Role <-> Suggestive interaction is most fascinating! I can see it. Because there is a lot of T around(Te in this particular case), you feel good because you need to reach T state in order to feel "superhuman". And by refining it into the T flavour you like(Te) instead of barf food(Ti) you indeed do reach that state. That can really be so, yes.

So Mobilising interacts with Creative and Base with Suggestive(externally). I wonder how it looks internally. Now I know that internally Suggestive interacts with Role and Mobilising with PoLR? You seek Mobilising in order to bury PoLR? Does that make any sense? Both PoLR and Mob being S...yes that could very well be true! FASCINATING!


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## ALongTime (Apr 19, 2014)

Ixim said:


> And that snippet about Role <-> Suggestive interaction is most fascinating! I can see it. Because there is a lot of T around(Te in this particular case), you feel good because you need to reach T state in order to feel "superhuman". And by refining it into the T flavour you like(Te) instead of barf food(Ti) you indeed do reach that state. That can really be so, yes.
> 
> So Mobilising interacts with Creative and Base with Suggestive(externally). I wonder how it looks internally. Now I know that internally Suggestive interacts with Role and Mobilising with PoLR? You seek Mobilising in order to bury PoLR? Does that make any sense? Both PoLR and Mob being S...yes that could very well be true! FASCINATING!


Yes, I found that particularly fascinating, and it seems to be true; you can build your own system of logical understanding (Ti) much easier if you have access to information on the more applied, I guess, practical Te logic, and I can see how that happens, I'm finding myself subconsciously using that kind of thing even now to understand Socionics. I would say it does follow that Mobilising would help eliminate the need to use POLR. The way I see it is all functions interacting with each other in different ways, all ultimately to support the base function. It looks from that as if any type can achieve anything as long as they have the right kind of support and information from others.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Ixim said:


> Now I know that internally Suggestive interacts with Role and Mobilising with PoLR? You seek Mobilising in order to bury PoLR? Does that make any sense? Both PoLR and Mob being S...yes that could very well be true! FASCINATING!


Yeah, I read something like that as well. PoLR is like a function that identifies area of person's biggest tension and problems, while Mobilizing is seen as a tool for resolving these problems. For example person with Fi PoLR can change their external behaviour through Fe and handle problems of their relationships with people. Or Ti PoLR handles its problems through Te, by building hypothetical structures and models with the help of putting emphasis on objective facts and data.


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