# At what point does anger and depression become worthy of seeing a psychologist?



## TempusFugit (Feb 26, 2010)

There is only the subjective experience of reality. Our experience of material things and perception of them matters far more than however they can be defined objectively. The only value lies in our own subjective valuing of ourselves and our experience.


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## Kevinaswell (May 6, 2009)

See a psychologist when your anxieties are prohibiting you from pursuing the things in life you desire.


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes, i am defined by psychology and the material world. I am ruled by my mind because my mind holds my intelligence. Ten there is the material world, clothes to stop us getting cold and to make us look good, because that makes us happier and gets us physical pleasure, buying houses that are large and pleasant because we want room and to stay warm, and it makes us attractive to other people and that makes us happy.
Your diagnosis is to reject a diagnosis, and label things and then tuck them away neatly n a corner of my mind. Believe it or not, that is what got me into this mess, just labelling my emotions like jars and studying them like bugs under a microscope. They become less real and i got depersonalized, and then they become stronger as i looked the other way, like a king believing the peasants will never rise and being shocked when they are knocking down the castle.
To TempusFugit, then they become psychological, our mental response to the physical. Still either physical and psychological.


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## TempusFugit (Feb 26, 2010)

Well personally I wouldn't label them and then tuck them away. I would keep applying new labels until everything is labelled in a way that can bring happiness.
The reason you are in the mess is because you are not viewing your emotions as you, but things that belong to you (things in jars), or perhaps something objective that is not really yours, but something that just exists and nothing can be done about them. You must allow yourself to feel your emotions, not just stare at them and wonder why they are there. The king must realize that he/she is just as human as the peasants and is only more valuable because of the subjective human value that "someone or something" has given to him.


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

That's what i am doing now, but now it is hard to remember how to be human. I'm pointing out the problem with labelling things into jars, its two conflicting instructions, View your emotions as part of you or label them and put them away, diagnosis courtesy of snowqueen.


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## sprinkles (Feb 7, 2010)

PenemueINTJ said:


> That's what i am doing now, but now it is hard to remember how to be human. I'm pointing out the problem with labelling things into jars, its two conflicting instructions, View your emotions as part of you or label them and put them away, diagnosis courtesy of snowqueen.


I don't know but it sounds like possible overload. Have you had any downtime lately, away from things that cause you stress?


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

I dont really get stressed by things that are traditionally stressful. School is boring, Dad is an ass but easily handled, people are... people. The only thing that stresses me is people and their personalities and unfortunately they are everywhere.


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## TempusFugit (Feb 26, 2010)

I know you might not feel human right now, but everything you are experiencing is very human and probably very normal for a teenage INTJ girl. 
You say people and their personalities stress you out...maybe you should place more value on how good your own personality is (and if you don't feel it is good, spend some time alone figuring out how to make it great). If someone else's personality doesn't seem that great to you, and kind of retarded and boring, or mean and useless, then why should they matter to you? Just limit your interactions with them and learn how to deal with them in the ways that will stress you out the least. Until you figure out how to do this (which you will learn to do as you get older), you will unfortunately experience some stress, which sucks, since you have so many other things you already have to worry about.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

snowqueen said:


> Actually I'm the one saying you don't need a diagnosis (you were the one who mentioned anger and depression)
> 
> If you want be defined by psychology and consumerism and think 'that is all there is' then be my guest. It's entirely up to you. I just thought you might possibly be interested in a wider perspective. What with being an INTJ and all that. My mistake. Sorry.


I thought your comments were an interesting read, some of your points I already shared a similar view of with you.

For me as an INTJ the accumulation of possessions is a burden, yet some times I hoard things "just in case" I might need them later; it's a kind of Boy Scout mentality of "always be prepared" or an attitude that things can be repaired, given to someone who will use them, or always have some use beyond recycling or throwing away. However, I find I am more peaceful when these items I've acquired are kept moving along to others or are recycled, rather than keeping them. Living with an ENFP who is often very indecisive helps reinforce that we not buy things we don't REALLY want or won't fulfill multiple needs. At the same time, though, it is difficult to get rid of now useless material objects also because the ENFP can be indecisive.

From my own experiences, being defined by psychology is comical at times. They think they have you all figured out, right? The truth is they begin even more clueless than the patient and must struggle to grasp for the actuality, making mistakes along the way. Especially with an INTJ, this for the doctor is like walking through a field of land mines, because the INTJ is going to be insulted that this person who is trained, apparently, got it so, so, very wrong. INTJ are already mentally drastically departed from the average populace, so the doctor wants to label us as deviating from the norm, well, DUH! We are not normal (we are rare) and there is nothing wrong with that. Once the doctor can stop fixating on how non-typical we are, and give us some useful feedback, the INTJ can begin to see itself as a healthy individual- able to diagnose needs and impulses and desires and relations to others on its own, with just the doctor's assistance helping with verbalization and clarification.

When I was 12, I went to see a [clueless] counselor at my mother's request.

Correction, my mother tricked me- but after I discerned that it was a trick she made the request ;p

She said we were going to do some things together in the city, but I noticed her body language and vocal tone indicated something was bothering her and that she wasn't being entirely truthful. We were 10 minutes from the office that she was taking me to, sitting in the car, driving, when I got her to confess that she was feeling so much emotional stress from the fact that she could not get me to open up, that she felt she was failing me as a mother and she didn't know what else to do, she was so scared that something bad would happen to me and told me she didn't want me to hurt myself or anyone else, she loved me so much.

She was crying, she felt bad for what she felt she'd had to do, and I was crying because I was so mad at my mother for betraying me that way. She knew I wouldn't have agreed to go, so she felt she HAD TO trick me. I realized during the next 10 minutes of the drive that I had to give my mother some peace of heart or else things would become even more stressful for her. Basically, my mother's emotions complicated the situation. I could have been a real jerk and refused to go, but I didn't.

It wasn't entirely a waste of my time and my mother's money, but that counselor was way off the mark. What that experience helped me to realize was that I could strive to make some adjustments on my own to prevent ever having to go through that again. I made concessions for my mother, basically, she would buy me journals to write in, and I would make the effort to speak with her as honestly as I could when she would ask me how I was feeling or how my day was. I gave my mother the communication she wanted after she had given me the privacy to consult my own emotions in my own time by writing in the journals. Over the past 17 years my relationship with my mother has only improved, even more so now that I know what her MBTI is. It is easier for us to communicate, to understand each other, and to share things that we both really like. It really eases her mind to know that I am doing alright, because she worries so much about all of her kids, that honestly it's not a big deal for me to pick up the phone and talk with her when we are apart because I know I'm doing her as much of a favor as I am doing myself.

The other very important thing that happened to me which no counselor or mother could provide is that I fell in love. It was about 4 months before my 17th birthday. I met a person who loved me so much, beyond reason, beyond sanity, a person I shared so many common interests with, who always listened to me and I enjoyed listening to him, that it was the easiest relationship I had ever had with another human being. I learned how to be myself with this guy, freely. He gave me so much space for self exploration and growth, it was unbelievable how much he gave me. I fell in love with him and my entire view of myself and the world changed.

I had to go through a lot of negative emotions to be able to get to that place in my heart where I could be a loving individual, embrace optimism without contradicting my ability to prepare for the worst, to feel rage but express it in a healthy way. I would "fight" against myself while running or doing exercise or lifting weights in the gym while training for cross country and track. Getting emotions out in a physical way that is healthy for your body is definitely therapy, for me it helps a lot because my brain isn't forced to deal with all the physical tension that my body wasn't being given an outlet for, just the emotional tension. It is good to have an "adversary" that isn't everybody else, because you set the terms and the fight is fair.

So, in the end I felt I had to help myself, but I met someone who shared this goal which made it so much easier. The fact that we loved each other made a huge difference and brought about a complete change in me, which to this day I am always thankful for. I would not be who I am today if not for having the people in my life who I love who also love me, and I am thankful that I even developed the consciousness with which to be able to see this truth for what it was and is.

Some way, you will need to be able to live out your emotions, let them move through you, experience them, consider what they could be and why, but do it in such a way that no physical trauma occurs. In my opinion it is much better to cry, scream, punch a pillow, exercise, do special breathing activities, listen to certain music, read books about the emotional/psychological topics you are exploring, pursue hobbies like riding a bike or hiking (which serve to clear your thoughts so you can actively participate in the world while observing, not JUST observe) when compared to something like crawling in your own skin/scratching at it with such intensity that you begin to bleed...

You can head toward that place where you become a peaceful person, understanding each limit of your emotional relation with the world and with the people around you. You will get to decide how you deal with it, but, for the best outcome it will require someone who truly loves you and has that patience to be your friend through the experience as you accept these emotions for what they are and move through them. Someone who will guide you and encourage you, not force you. In the beginning and in the end, you will know what sounds correct and sounds incorrect, because you know yourself better than anyone, only perhaps you might not have looked at yourself, others and the world you live in from every possible viewpoint yet. It is easy to get tunnel vision as an INTJ, not realizing how we've limited our perceptions to such a painful exclusion of all things wonderful, also without realizing why.


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## snowqueen (Mar 24, 2009)

PenemueINTJ said:


> Yes, i am defined by psychology and the material world. I am ruled by my mind because my mind holds my intelligence. Ten there is the material world, clothes to stop us getting cold and to make us look good, because that makes us happier and gets us physical pleasure, buying houses that are large and pleasant because we want room and to stay warm, and it makes us attractive to other people and that makes us happy.


I think you may have misunderstood my argument - I wasn't suggesting that the material world, wanting nice clothes, a nice house etc. is wrong or unnatural - but those natural desires are being subverted by a society which is dependent on people being dissatisfied with what they have and feeling the need to have more - the idea that your clothes and large house is what make you attractive to other people is a sign of that. What makes you attractive to other people is the way you behave towards them, the way you behave towards yourself and the way you behave towards the world, not some material possessions. Those can be lost in an instant and then what/who are you left with? Of course you are ruled by your mind and your intellience, I wasn't disputing that but 'psychology' is a pseudoscience dependent on the same kinds of positivist circular belief systems as religion. You believe in God, you believe in 'inner drives' - same faulty logic. 



> Your diagnosis is to reject a diagnosis,


a clever but meaningless phrase :happy: I offered no diagnosis - I have made no formulation of your needs or your faults because I am not operating from the premise that you are 'ill'. On the contrary you are probably perfectly fine the way you are - angry is not so bad. Depressed? What does that mean? You are miserable? Dissatisfied? Irritated by adults who misunderstand you? Pissed off with other people who aren't as intelligent as you, who are over-emotional? Look - you asked a question about when you needed to seek help for 'anger and depression' and I replied in good faith. 



> and label things and then tuck them away neatly n a corner of my mind. Believe it or not, that is what got me into this mess, just labelling my emotions like jars and studying them like bugs under a microscope.


Please do me the courtesy of reading what I wrote again and tell me where I suggest you study your thoughts and emotions like bugs? Of course that is precisely what has got you into a mess. I suggested you notice them briefly and _let them go_! It's a technique for mental and emotional stability which has been tried and tested for 2,500 years which is becoming widely regarded as helpful to managing emotions and disturbing thoughts. 




PenemueINTJ said:


> I dont really get stressed by things that are traditionally stressful. School is boring, Dad is an ass but easily handled, people are... people. The only thing that stresses me is people and their personalities and unfortunately they are everywhere.


I think you may find that people and their personalities *are* 'traditionally stressful'. Especially for introverts. Being INXJ is not easy - I was responding to your distress in good faith. I'm sorry if it wasn't helpful, but hopefully you might see that I wasn't 'diagnosing' you or trying to minimise your experience - quite the contrary. I wish nothing you but happiness with yourself and the world.


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

Surely having good clothes suggests wealth, and a large house suggests the same, and that would make living with us an attractive prospect as someone to cohabit with and possibly have children and share genes with. Not necessarily the only thing, but i'm sure it helps. 
By traditionally stressful i meant peer pressure into drugs, alcohol, arguments with parents, exams, usual teenage stuff.
Let emotions go - Go where? Just release them into the unknown? I dont know how to do that. How do you just let them go? Anger is not so bad? Theres only so far anger can take you, and it makes people lash out againt what they love and against their conscience.
:sad: I think i'm getting angry at nothing, seeing things where thay dont exist. I dont even know what i'm feeling anymore.


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## snowqueen (Mar 24, 2009)

PenemueINTJ said:


> Surely having good clothes suggests wealth, and a large house suggests the same, and that would make living with us an attractive prospect as someone to cohabit with and possibly have children and share genes with. Not necessarily the only thing, but i'm sure it helps.


Yes you are right - of course it does. I would be a hypocrite if I were to say otherwise. But I think there's a difference between being an attractive 'prospect' or an attractive person.



> By traditionally stressful i meant peer pressure into drugs, alcohol, arguments with parents, exams, usual teenage stuff.


And I guess that I see that stress as being external - part of the social and cultural pressures of the time. I think it's becoming increasingly hard for teenagers - the available narratives; the ways you can construct the story of who you are, are fairly negative or unreasonable. They do say teens have always had a hard time and that it's no different now. Maybe. 



> Let emotions go - Go where? Just release them into the unknown? I dont know how to do that. How do you just let them go?


I love the image of releasing emotions into the 'unknown' as if they were animals released into the wild. You let the go by not feeding them by 'feeding' I mean generating thoughts to keep the emotions churning away. There are different ways you can let go - through relaxation, exercise, distraction and meditation. But emotions are tremendously seductive! It takes practice. Basically once you 'catch' yourself riding the wave of an emotion, the act of 'noticing' already changes it. 



> Anger is not so bad? Theres only so far anger can take you, and it makes people lash out againt what they love and against their conscience.
> :sad: I think i'm getting angry at nothing, seeing things where thay dont exist. I dont even know what i'm feeling anymore.


That sounds pretty frustrating and a bit sad. I find it quite useful to ask myself 'how would I like to be feeling now?' and then thinking of what I know will produce that feeling - . That feels a bit more empowering. Kind of bypasses the problem and leads into something more creative. Are there times when you do feel good or when yo do feel ok? What's happening at those times?


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

Fair point about the prospect/person thing. I dont really find people attractive so i tend to think along more logical lines ike "He would give me space" or "He is smart, interesting." or "He is realy skillful at ...., that could be interesting to watch"
Ummm... I dont know. I guess i feel best after doing something requiring skill like a piece of art, or a maths problem, or realising something before other people. Or reading a book. Or shooting.
I'll try to make a point of noticing when i am feeling emotions, nd try the thing about thinking what i would like to feel like. That should be interesting.
:sad: Sorry about earlier, i think i was being rude... i'm out of touch with people. I know it's not an excuse.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

I've said before to my husband that there are behaviors I manifest that he could be interpreting "wrong".

Basically, when I am angry he gets the warning that he should leave me alone, but what I really need is patience, acceptance, understanding, love. He can offer me physical space to be by myself, but I do much better if he shows me some kind of affection before leaving.

My anger is not always anger- sometimes it is frustration, loneliness, sadness, a desire for understanding, a need for mutual feelings, etc. It comes out as anger, but is it really anger? When I stop to think about my emotions the _why_ can become clear and even the _who_ sometimes. Was I really angry with that other person, or more angry at myself? why? Important questions to consider.


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## snowqueen (Mar 24, 2009)

PenemueINTJ said:


> Fair point about the prospect/person thing. I dont really find people attractive so i tend to think along more logical lines ike "He would give me space" or "He is smart, interesting." or "He is realy skillful at ...., that could be interesting to watch"
> 
> 
> > That actually sounds pretty sensible! I also find noticing how I feel about myself in someone's company quite revealing.
> ...


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

:O How did you put a hyperlink in that? I'll have a look at it now, should be interesting.


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## thixson (Mar 5, 2010)

I agree with WNF. I had these kinds of feelings along with low self esteem all my life until I finally got therapy at the age of 25. I felt better but never felt "normal" until I went back at the age of 30 and got put on meds. Specifically, a SRI. While some don't believe in them and they don't work well for others, they were a LIFE SAVER for me. For the first time in my life I didn't feel pissed off and depressed all the time for no apparent reason. I actually started to like life, like myself and even to like being around other people (most people anyway). The greatest part is that people started to actually like being around me. I am still very much an ISTJ but I can tolerate and even enjoy being around other personality types now. Don't be like me and wait until your 25 or 30 before you get help. :happy:


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

I've got an appointment to see my GP and she says she'll refer me to her friend who is really understanding. Should be interesting. Thanks to thixson, i'll ask about it but i dont really like the idea of drugs, even for medicinal purposes.


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## nixe (Feb 24, 2010)

WNF said:


> go see a therapist. they are great. get one that isn't quick to pump you with drugs. those people are dead inside.
> I've dealt with a lot of shit in my life, and it's always better to have that person there for you than not. even if you end up on meds (like me), it might just be the best thing to ever happen to you.
> but all fo this sounds really corny to you, right? sorry!


I want to heartily second this, but with a slightly more positive feeling towards meds. You certainly should not stick around with a doctor who is giving you medication that isn't something you wanted or find to be helpful. That doesn't mean that psychiatric medication is useless or even necessarily a bad idea. That said, I don't think psychiatric medication should be used on teenagers except with great caution. (My psychiatrist does not treat teenagers. He jokes that they are obstinate, do not take their meds, and no matter what you do they get better. It's true that some of the rough edges do tend to settle out at least a bit as you get older. That doesn't mean you should just have to live with them and hope for the best in the meanwhile, though.)

I don't know how it is in other countries, but in the U.S., counselors and psychologists are not medical doctors and legally cannot prescribe medication. A psychiatrist is a medical doctor with full training and can prescribe both psychiatric and non-psychiatric medication. Depending on your views on medication you may want to choose your doctor accordingly.

Therapy has many different schools of thought and I personally have never met a therapist who used psychoanalysis, though I assume there are plenty out there who do. You are well within your rights to ask a therapist whether they prefer to use any particular type of therapy and then, doing a bit of research as necessary, decide whether it's something you think would be helpful for you. I personally do not think I could work with a therapist who preferred cognitive behavior therapy. It conflicts strongly with my core values.

In the United States there are tons of options for free mental health services. (I imagine this is true in many other countries as well.) The Internet will probably be your best resource for finding them, but state and county-run clinics could be a place to start. Also, many schools that train therapists offer free services to help their students get real-world experience, which sounds a little iffy, I know, but it's just a possibility to keep in mind. Even police departments have a separate social work department that I believe offers free services. On top of that, many therapists who might otherwise be very expensive use a sliding scale to decide what to charge each patient, based on what the patient can reasonably pay. This sliding scale may well go all the way down to zero. However, the consensus I've heard from a lot of therapists is that it's a good idea for the patient to pay something, even if it's dollars or cents, not because the therapists are greedy and want to squeeze pennies out of poor people, but because that money represents a commitment to the treatment and to the idea of getting better, and even though it is largely symbolic it can really affect the way a patient approaches the treatment.

No matter where you go, you may end up with a good therapist or a lousy one (or a therapist who might be fine for other people but is lousy for you). Do not stick around with a therapist you feel is wrong for you, or not helpful, or especially one who doesn't listen to you. I can almost guarantee that the treatment will not go well. It will not be your fault. Whether or not it's the therapist's fault is pretty much beside the point. The important thing is to move on and try a different therapist until you find one you like.

That's pretty much all I have to say about therapists.

As a parting thought, you seem fairly certain that your thoughts make you a bad person. Do you feel like people who disagree are not taking your feelings seriously?

Beyond that, have you considered the idea that it is possible to be a good person and a bad person at the same time? I know I have both sides, and while I try to express the good more often than the bad, I would consider myself unhealthy if I could not acknowledge both.


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

nixe said:


> As a parting thought, you seem fairly certain that your thoughts make you a bad person. Do you feel like people who disagree are not taking your feelings seriously?
> 
> Beyond that, have you considered the idea that it is possible to be a good person and a bad person at the same time? I know I have both sides, and while I try to express the good more often than the bad, I would consider myself unhealthy if I could not acknowledge both.


I'm not sure that my thoughts make me a bad person, a person cannot control what they think. The disturbing thing is the pleasure i get when i imagine people going through a lot of pain/suffering. That isnt healthy. Nor i think are the sudden shifts between anger/depression and detachment.
I know that people are taking my feelings seroiusly (or at least i hope they are), but i often feel as if people just dont quite understand. Like they're someone perfectly healthy lecturing a disabled person on their disability.
I'm not entirely sure what does make up a good person; is it being true to yourself, or being selflessly good towards other people?


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## pikmenbattlehealer (Nov 29, 2009)

Greetings to a Hannible Berta type that ruled the army of Carthage against Rome. A bad boy or at least drunken or angry INTJ male==is someone for me to learn from. Thank you and to those who posted to your present issue.:crying:I'm an infp---ruled by feelings---and only cover it up effectively with narcaccism or self preserving preferences. May i become more ESTJ or like your tribe of INTJ's some day.


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## Sweetish (Dec 17, 2009)

PenemueINTJ said:


> I'm not sure that my thoughts make me a bad person, a person cannot control what they think. The disturbing thing is the pleasure i get when i imagine people going through a lot of pain/suffering. That isnt healthy. Nor i think are the sudden shifts between anger/depression and detachment.
> I know that people are taking my feelings seroiusly (or at least i hope they are), but i often feel as if people just dont quite understand. Like they're someone perfectly healthy lecturing a disabled person on their disability.


Mm, *nods*. I see.

I have a question, though-

Which people do you imagine going through a lot of pain/suffering? Specific people, or just everyone, anyone? You mentioned one person you care a lot about, who you would do almost anything for. What if you could feel that way about more than only 1 person? would you want to, do you want to?

I can see your point about the lecturing coming from a person who doesn't adequately understand.

My apologies to you if my feelings have been incorrect. I make educated guesses about how much I can relate to others, but there's no way for me to perfectly know, exactly, if we've felt the same, even if just similarly somehow.



nixe said:


> Beyond that, have you considered the idea that it is possible to be a good person and a bad person at the same time? I know I have both sides, and while I try to express the good more often than the bad, I would consider myself unhealthy if I could not acknowledge both.


 A very useful point is made here. I like looking for clarification of why something was done or felt long before I decide if it is ultimately "good" or "bad". Perhaps it was one or the other in the past, but now it could have changed.



PenemueINTJ said:


> I'm not entirely sure what does make up a good person; is it being true to yourself, or being selflessly good towards other people?


I see harming others as destructive, healing others as progressive. I like constructing, building, improving, so healing to me I view as good. I view the truth as good, so I value honesty. If the truth causes some destruction, I still view it as good because I don't like a life built upon lies. I want to be able to trust the ground I'm standing on and the words I hear people say. In that regard, lying and destruction are a waste of my time and effort. Things I should have only done once I have had to do twice because of falsehood and someone else's negative emotions- inefficient. Truth and healing to me feel like I've spent my time making things function smoothly, without misunderstandings. When people are genuinely happy they are able to enjoy life differently, and even their body responds with improved health. So, I see goodness as health, truth, healing. I see badness as destruction, lies, damaging.

Everyone has their own opinion about what "good" and "bad" equal, mean, or can imply. I judge goodness and badness by intent. Does this person want to create, or do they want to destroy? why? how? under what compromise of who they are? So, yes, being true to yourself is good, but you must know yourself before you can be true to yourself. If you are wearing a mask, you need to take it off and ask why you were showing that side of yourself instead of a different side of yourself. Being who you are is usually a gray area, not 100% good and not 100% bad, unless you want to be. It is a choice. Some people who are viewed as bad are killers, but they might not understand themselves, hence what they did was bad (destructive, hurtful), but who they are -whether good or bad or in between- is something they have yet to adequately explore in themselves.


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## snowqueen (Mar 24, 2009)

I remember going on a journey by plane when I was 17 and at the airport I picked up a copy of Damien by Herman Hesse. By the time I landed I was a different person! That book changed my life because it offered a completely different picture of good/bad. Highly recommended!


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## Lord Xephere (Jan 20, 2010)

I think when the person notices that it is starting to interfere with their ability to function in their daily lives, it's time to get help. Depression is something that corrupts the mind and causes negative, unhealthy thoughts and beliefs. If they don't get help, or do things to help themselves (trying to think positively, finding a hobby...etc) it will only get worse.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

PenemueINTJ said:


> Hi. I hav ea problem, and im going to give as much info as i think may be relevant to fixing this, but it may not be all relevant so i apoogise, i'm out of touch with communicating with people especially about emotions.
> I have many faults, but possibly the most pressing is my anger and imagination. I spend a lot of time being immensly angry, either with myself for failing to notice or understand every single aspect of something, or if i believe that somebody is being idiotic. I hate people that are meek and do not understand when a person want s to be alone, i hate having to work with other people and i hate having to do the same tasks as other people when i know my time could be put to better use.
> I also have a large problem connecting with people, there is only one person i care at all about and i would fight to the death for her, but otherwise i just do not understand how people work and get imensly frustrated by failing to communicate properly or by not understanding other people. I cannot remember the last time i have fully registered a positive emotion.
> I have a lot of hate, long story short. But now it i getting worse and worse. I frequently have my imagination take over and see the world burning, flesh dripping and burning, and this can last up to a minute. this may not sound like much but the accomanying smell and flash or anger is almost paralysing and i am reduced to closing my eyes and humming in my head to drown out the screams. I know that it is my imagination so i just have to wait, but it is disorientating and im afraid of lashing out unexpectedly. I frequently just want the world to burn.... and it's bothering me because i know that this isnt how people are meant to feel. This is interspersed with feelings of acute depression when i cannot move or speak and i feel so sad it feels like im being ripped apart. I frequently scratch my own skin to try and alleviate this feeling, often to the point my arm ends up bleeding in the middle of a lesson.
> I do not want to have to see a therapist or get some psychoanalysis, but im runnng out of options. My mum doesnt know anything is wrong, i'm good at acting ok, and i dont want her to know, and people in my classes are starting to cotton on i think. Im putting this on a general forum (i think, i'm pretty low tech) so that the more emotionally in touch people may have an idea, as i think that they are better equipped to give advice on this sort of situation. Any idea's would be SO helpful, i just dont know what to do about this, as it is getting in the way of my life.


If you´re an INTJ, you should be able to analize where this stuff comes from. Then come up with a solution or a system to prevent it from happening. Looks like you only got as far as having figured out how to deal with it.

I'm with the people that advised you to get professional help. If it's interrupting your daily life, then it's wise to get some help understanding your problem better and learning how to come up with a solution.


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

SweetSurrender said:


> Which people do you imagine going through a lot of pain/suffering? Specific people, or just everyone, anyone? You mentioned one person you care a lot about, who you would do almost anything for. What if you could feel that way about more than only 1 person? would you want to, do you want to?
> 
> I can see your point about the lecturing coming from a person who doesn't adequately understand.
> 
> My apologies to you if my feelings have been incorrect. I make educated guesses about how much I can relate to others, but there's no way for me to perfectly know, exactly, if we've felt the same, even if just similarly somehow.


No, it was all useful. I was talking more about other people who notice and say "Just stop" as if it is anywhere near that easy or simple. It is good to hear other peoples stories and learn from them, especially if they have gone through similar things.

It varies. Sometimes if im just angry at one person then it will just be them, but sometimes it is the entire world, i look out the window and it's the same intense heat as a A-bomb.
When i was a child i used to have very strong idea's about right and wrong. If somebody was making someone esle upset and i found out, you could bet your bottom dollar that by the end of the hour it will have been finished and the aggressor would walk away wih a broken nose. But then i noticed that the world wasnt that simple. Politicians, wars, i saw how easy it was to manipulate others for your own gain. I realised that the world didnt care if Tom was beating up Andrew. It might make the world of difference to them, but i find it hard to imagine other people living their lives. I stopped fighting, mainly due to this and the fact i was inches from expulsion. I might browbeat somebody and pick on their worst insecurities and emotionally beat them, but it takes so much anger for me to get over that barrier to hurt somebody even if they deserve it and more, the barrier it takes for me to self harm is much lower and there arent any noticable consequences if i wear long sleeves.

I'll have a look at that book, see if i can order it off the internet.:happy:


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## white-knuckle (Mar 4, 2010)

Do you have any outlets? From what you described in your posting you feel the need to have a lot of space. Maybe you rely on that need for space a bit too much. I would suggest finding a small group to interact with. Whether it be video games, board games, or building something (tree fort...whatever floats your boat)

Also, maybe getting an animal. My boyfriend, used to have trouble sleeping and was very paranoid by possible intruders. We got a dog and withen weeks he was sleeping and much more calm.

He also had a pretty negative world view but saw how technology and things of the sort could help the world. Maybe there is an intellectual pursuit that could be your outlet. 

Honestly though, finding a friend outside of the internet might benefit you greatly. Many people have psychological issues some solve them on thier own, or with a friend, and some go to a psychologist. Some issues seem less serious when your happy too. 
Find something that makes you happy. Whatever it may be.


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## Penemue (Feb 23, 2010)

Umm, i dont have a pet, but i have a plant i talk to. That may seem very sad.... But if i'm thinking aloud i like to talk to this plant while im watering it. It sits on my windowsill. I cant afford and dont have time for a pet except maybe a gerbil and they bite. I had a hamster but it bit me whenever i went anywhere near it so it was a mightmare to look after, and it kept running away. A damn fine escape artist though :tongue:
I research lots of things, but i dont really have the time or the energy for an actual hobby. Schoolwork is ridiculously easy but it is time consuming. And im finding it harder to do things, it's like my mind is turning to mush. Its probably just tiredness, insomnia is keeping me up a lot and i used to sleep all the time so it's really affecting me. If i'm at home and i feel bad i blow some people up on computer games or research.
I talk to someone who also had a lot of issues, but his were different to mine. It also makes me feel bad, he had a reason for his problems, but i cant find a reason for mine and i have a good life. 
Never mind, should be a lot better after this appointment.


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