# Please help me- I can't decide if I'm an ISFJ or INFJ



## Viveke (Aug 26, 2010)

So I've read descriptions of both types and there are aspects of both that I relate to. I feel like if I'm an ISFJ, I have a really bad memory for one and am lacking in practicality, logic, etc. But I don't think I'm really that intuitive, although I'd love to be. (I'm jealous of anyone who can "read people" well- people's minds and personalities fascinate me). I know they are separate temperaments, but I think I might be an ISFJ, INFJ wannabe. 

Some things that may or may not be relevant:

-I feel like I generally take things at face value, and then remember to analyze them. 
-I easily get jealous of and am possessive of my friends, but don't show it.
-I cannot or do not bother to predict the outcome to books or movies. Twist endings almost always take me by surprise.
-I am insecure- when someone compliments me on working quickly, I always get paranoid that I left something out. I often feel like I'm not good at anything. 
-I envy people who don't seem to let anything bother them. I often feel weak because I'm overly sensitive 
-I love the idea of being part of a group- when everyone depends on and cares about one another. I like assembly lines.
-Intuition confuses me, period. Maybe I'm thinking of it in the wrong sense.
-I often imagine elaborate conversations with people- real, fictional, strangers, and friends
-I enjoy analyzing friends and fictional characters 
-I don't mind breaking rules and sometimes enjoy it (when doing so doesn't hurt others in any way)
-My dad frequently gets frustrated with me because whenever he asks me a question, I think of why he's asking that question and answer that instead of the actual question.
-I consider myself liberal (politically wise). The idea that anyone has pre-determined roles in society annoys me
-I'm attracted to things that are "dark"- music, art, people 
-A good way to motivate me is to criticize me- I'll want to prove you wrong
-Whenever I'm listening to music in my car, I keep the windows up because I don't want anyone else to hear what I'm listening to. I will, however, freely tell people what type of music I like. I don't understand this.
-From the type descriptions, a world of "hidden meanings and possibilities" seems much more appealing than one that is "concrete and kind" 
-I have trouble understanding basic logical concepts.
-I have difficulty "living in the moment"- I'm always worried about what's going to happen next
Any feedback would be welcome. I know this was long- I appreciate it if you read it all the way through (or at all)
Thank you!


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

How good are you with details? In school were you good with subjects that involved a lot of memorization of detail like histroy or biology or did you prefer subjects that explained concepts but weren't detail-heavy? How much attention do you pay to people's physical appearance? Do you easily notice and remember what they wear, what they look like, see that they got a new haircut right away and stuff like that? Do you consider physical appearance to be an important feature in a partner? Or are you mostly oblivious to physical appearances? Would you say you are more practical or more dreamy? Do you frequently zone out and then have people ask you what are you thinking about?


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## Viveke (Aug 26, 2010)

Hmm...well I would say I'm good at history and biology, but have trouble remembering things like dates and places (which I assume an ISFJ would remember?), and am more likely to remember cause and effect relationships or themes. I notice what people look like (usually) but quickly forget after I'm not looking at them anymore. Appearance is pretty important to me though. Practicality annoys me- I probably will end up doing the practical thing, but I won't want to. And I definitely zone out a lot (most of the time). 
So what do you think?


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

Have you considered an introverted ISFP? I didn't read anything that can't be explained by you being that.

I think the difficulty with living in the moment could be if you are using your tertiary introverted intuition fuction instead of your auxiliary extraverted sensing function.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

Viveke said:


> Hmm...well I would say I'm good at history and biology, but have trouble remembering things like dates and places (which I assume an ISFJ would remember?), and am more likely to remember cause and effect relationships or themes. I notice what people look like (usually) but quickly forget after I'm not looking at them anymore. Appearance is pretty important to me though. Practicality annoys me- I probably will end up doing the practical thing, but I won't want to. And I definitely zone out a lot (most of the time).
> So what do you think?


Sounds like you make decent use of your intuition so it may indeed be your secondary or primary function. When you say appearance is important do you mean your own appearance is very important as in presenting the best image to outside world or do you actually attribute people more/less value based on their physical appearance? For example would it be a significant factor for you if you are dating a guy of specific height/hair color/eye color? Sensors pay way more attention to this than do intuitives and with INFJs/ISFJs this difference is particularly striking because sensory function is dominant one for ISFJs while intuition is dominant one for INFJs. So for example my ISFJ mother would comment on people's posture, or height, or how they are dressed, while I am prone to not attribute any value to such observations.

Also mis-testing across P and J is quite common, so consider that you may also be an ISFP or INFP.


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## Empurple (May 20, 2010)

Read the description for INFP.


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## vocalist (Jul 21, 2010)

I am an INFJ, ISFJ wannabe, so the opposite of you, I guess :lol

The other posters are right, though, you should also consider that you might be ISFP or INFP.

But, if it really is narrowed down to INFJ or ISFJ, I think you sound more like an INFJ to me...


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## vocalist (Jul 21, 2010)

pc3000 said:


> I think the difficulty with living in the moment could be if you are using your tertiary introverted intuition fuction instead of your auxiliary extraverted sensing function.


Another possiblity is that you are an INFJ with Inferior Se function. For me, having Inferior Se has meant that I have a strong _desire_ to live in the moment at times, and sometimes Se completely overtakes me for a short time; but it's not something that I can easily access at any time, nor easily control when it comes upon me unawares.


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## Viveke (Aug 26, 2010)

I've considered both INFP and ISFP, but I'm a strong extraverted feeler, and need to have things planned out and decided. I'm happiest when I'm working with others to achieve a goal. I'm constantly trying to "organize" everything.
Vel- I meant that my personal appearance is important to me, and I have a strong aesthetic appreciation. I'm more inclined to notice people's faces and expression and what this says about what they're thinking. One of the things that bothered me about the type descriptions was how it was either "literal and concrete" or "via intuition". I take things in through my senses and then interpret them. Sometimes it'll just be a "feeling" I get from a person and a place, but I think I could attribute that to tangible qualities- color, temperature, etc.- but if someone asks me to explain I won't have a lot to say or it won't make sense to them.
@ vocalist- aw why don't you want to be an infj?


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## vocalist (Jul 21, 2010)

Viveke said:


> @ vocalist- aw why don't you want to be an infj?


It's not that I don't want to be INFJ. It's just that, being a young mother, I often try to _act_ more like an ISFJ, and then when I am unsuccessful I get really down on myself. Learning more about INFJ functions has helped me to be able to better accept what I am and work _with_ my preferences rather than against them. Still, being able to switch into ISFJ mode at will certainly would be handy...but I've given up trying that tactic; it wasn't good for my mental health.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

Viveke said:


> ...One of the things that bothered me about the type descriptions was how it was either "literal and concrete" or "via intuition". I take things in through my senses and then interpret them. Sometimes it'll just be a "feeling" I get from a person and a place, but I think I could attribute that to tangible qualities- color, temperature, etc.- but if someone asks me to explain I won't have a lot to say or it won't make sense to them.


The profiles describe the absolute of that type, but of course nobody fits that absolute and there is a range of learned coping mechanisms that most of us pick up in childhood and adolescence to make up for our weaker points. That last part you mentioned about not quite being able to describe in exact detail where that vibe is coming from that you feel sounds very INFJ-ish to me. I often get such vibes that I then have to deconstruct for other people if I wish to explain to them why I feel/think a particular way. I'd also recommend you hang out in ISFJ and INFJ forums and read the sticky notes, then see which one you can relate to the most.


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## Viveke (Aug 26, 2010)

I spent some time on ISFJ and INFJ forums and I'm pretty sure I'm not an ISFJ. 
On the INFJ forum, I related really well to everything except the posts about being insightful, knowing people better than they know themselves, knowing when someone is lying to them, finishing people's thoughts, etc. A lot of times I'm just oblivious. I think my earlier post was a bit misleading, or getting a "feeling" about something was the wrong way to describe it. ie. there's a very good chance that I attend the high school I do now because the hallways have red carpet and that made me feel warm, not because my intuition was picking up on a vibe. I remembered this one post in particular...



Linus said:


> You know you're INFJ when you're in any room of people..and although may not be so aware of how you are acting, how you're sitting, standing, etc ...will be completely aware of _everybody else_:
> 
> conversations between all the people.. how they react to each other, what they say
> strangers who listen to other people's conversations, and what are they thinking
> ...


I just don't think I have anywhere close to that level of perception.


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## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

You sound more ISFJ than INFJ to me. I think I know both types pretty well by now (my mom and several of my close friends are ISFJ). I can't logically pinpoint why and explain it, and I'm only going on what little you wrote in the OP, but that's how it seems to me.


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## Viveke (Aug 26, 2010)

What did I write that sounds ISFJish to you? (Sorry, I know you said you couldn't pinpoint it, but couldn't help asking :happy I'm just trying to get an idea.


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## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

Viveke said:


> What did I write that sounds ISFJish to you? (Sorry, I know you said you couldn't pinpoint it, but couldn't help asking :happy I'm just trying to get an idea.


OK, I'll do my best. I'll have to make some generalizations, to which there are always exceptions.



> -I feel like I generally take things at face value, and then remember to analyze them.


An INFJ is more likely to analyze things first, and often keep analyzing them, and less likely to see things at face value. INFJs usually don't need to remind themselves to analyze things - they just do. It's like second nature.



> -I easily get jealous of and am possessive of my friends, but don't show it.


It is my personal belief that INFJs are just as susceptible to feeling jealousy, possessiveness and envy (and any other intense emotion) as an ISFJ or any other type. But I believe they would be less likely to hide it. I know that I can't hide negative feelings and neither can most of the INFJs I know. In my case, although it may not be typical), I don't feel jealousy or possessiveness of anyone.



> -I cannot or do not bother to predict the outcome to books or movies. Twist endings almost always take me by surprise.


INFJs and most intuitives would be able to predict the outcome more often than sensors. Some are really good at this and they have fun trying.



> -I am insecure- when someone compliments me on working quickly, I always get paranoid that I left something out. I often feel like I'm not good at anything.


Anyone can feel insecure, and INFJs especially so, but you said that you would be paranoid that you_left something out_. I could be wrong but I think that an INFJ would be less worried about having left something out and more worried about what someone will think of it. They may be more worried that they offended someone or effected someone in some way, or even possible that they may be judged.



> -I envy people who don't seem to let anything bother them. I often feel weak because I'm overly sensitive


Me too! Except I don't feel that being highly sensitive makes me "weak", just sensitive. It depends on how you define strength I guess. Does bottling up ones emotions (or just not having any) make them strong?



> -I love the idea of being part of a group- when everyone depends on and cares about one another. I like assembly lines.


I think INFJs are more likely to want to work alone or in small groups. The assembly line thing sounds ISFJ to me. I think it would make many INFJs shudder.



> -Intuition confuses me, period. Maybe I'm thinking of it in the wrong sense.


Not usually confusing to intuitives. We know what it is - we live by it.



> -I often imagine elaborate conversations with people- real, fictional, strangers, and friends


So do I. I'm not sure this is indicative of any particular type.



> -I enjoy analyzing friends and fictional characters


That could definitely be INFJ, and maybe less likely to be a sensor trait, but what do I know?



> -I don't mind breaking rules and sometimes enjoy it (when doing so doesn't hurt others in any way)


There is a thread on this right now in the INFJ forum.



> -My dad frequently gets frustrated with me because whenever he asks me a question, I think of why he's asking that question and answer that instead of the actual question.


This sounds like an intuitive trait to me.



> -From the type descriptions, a world of "hidden meanings and possibilities" seems much more appealing than one that is "concrete and kind"


"Concrete and kind" isn't exactly an appealing alternative to "a world of hidden meanings and possibilities". What if they had worded it differently, such as "Beautiful, solid, stable, and kind." Would that make a difference?



> -I have trouble understanding basic logical concepts.


That just indicates you are not a thinker, but doesn't say much about whether you are a sensor or intuitive.



> -I have difficulty "living in the moment"- I'm always worried about what's going to happen next


I sometimes have this problem too but not as much as my ISFJ friends. Some of them have a really hard time letting go of the past.

I hope this helps, I had to think about it for a while.


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## Viveke (Aug 26, 2010)

Thank you!
I will think about that


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## Viveke (Aug 26, 2010)

I'm just going to clarify some things I wrote that you addressed. Don't feel like you have to read it, it's just something I wanted to do. And thank you again for taking the time to do that- what you addressed were essentially the things make me think I'm an ISFJ. 



napoleon227 said:


> Anyone can feel insecure, and INFJs especially so, but you said that you would be paranoid that you _left something out_. I could be wrong but I think that an INFJ would be less worried about having left something out and more worried about what someone will think of it. They may be more worried that they offended someone or effected someone in some way, or even possible that they may be judged.


I put that I would be worried about leaving something out because that would explain why I had finished whatever it was faster. In most cases, yes, I would be worried about what someone would think of it, if it offended anyone, and what the person observing it would think of me based on it.



napoleon227 said:


> Me too! Except I don't feel that being highly sensitive makes me "weak", just sensitive. It depends on how you define strength I guess. Does bottling up ones emotions (or just not having any) make them strong?


No, I don't think bottling up emotions makes someone strong. I would think that allowing everything to hurt you and being self pitying would make you- well maybe not weak, but vulnerable. Being strong would be seeing the truth in those statements and trying to improve yourself, or if there isn't any than disregarding them and not allowing them to affect how you think about yourself. I don't think that not having any emotions makes one strong.



napoleon227 said:


> I think INFJs are more likely to want to work alone or in small groups. The assembly line thing sounds ISFJ to me. I think it would make many INFJs shudder.


I would want to work alone or in a small group. What I was thinking of was that I like the idea of a group of friends, Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants style.
I wouldn't want to make a career out of an assembly line, but what is appealing to me about it is that everyone has a place and is working towards a goal. A lot of times I feel out of place or like I don't belong, so an assembly line would sort of guarantee that I have somewhere to be and something to do. An assembly line where I could be creative and use my imagination would be nice, if that even exists 



napoleon227 said:


> Not usually confusing to intuitives. We know what it is - we live by it.


I was thinking of it in terms of something magical. After reading more about how INFJs described it, I believe I do understand it. 



napoleon227 said:


> "Concrete and kind" isn't exactly an appealing alternative to "a world of hidden meanings and possibilities". What if they had worded it differently, such as "Beautiful, solid, stable, and kind." Would that make a difference?


Haha good point. However, no, I still prefer hidden meanings and possibilities  

I guess this post might seem a bit defensive. But the thing is, I want to go into a career in psychology and international relations. I want to spend my life studying people and the ways in which we relate to each other, express ourselves, arrange ourselves into societies, form our cultures, and where that's going to take us in the future. I want to understand- and try to improve. Being an INFJ would mean that at least I have a natural aptitude towards the thing I want to do, which isn't something that happens very often.


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## napoleon227 (Jan 17, 2010)

No, I don't think you sounded defensive. I understand what you meant, makes sense. Only you really know what type you are, and maybe going though the process of trying to defend your preference will help you figure it out. You may be on the border in some areas. I am too, probably a lot of people are. For me, tests were inconclusive - I was typed as at least three different types. I ended up decided for myself after reading as much as i could about types and functions. Good luck!


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## dazednconfused1 (Aug 31, 2010)

Just throwing in my two cents.... : ) 

I think if you are even questioning it to begin with, you're leaning more to the N side. Not that an S wouldn't question... but the depth and extent to which you are doing so, to me has "abstract" written all over it. Sorry for the lack of solid evidence here.... this is just my intuition talking! : ) I hope you're able to reach a conclusion, it's no fun being confused about yourself!


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

A stray bullet from a gang shootout flies straight at your head.

You have absolutely no way of stopping the missile. It is going to hit your brain. 

Suddenly the fabric of time stops and a suited man materialized instantly at your side. You find yourself unable to move, but, somehow, you can hear the mysterous man speak to you in a overly formal english accent

"You might be wondering who I am," he begins "but that is most inconsequential. What deserves your consideration is the bullet in front of you. You see, I am unable to stop that bullet from piercing your brain; it is against the rules, you see."

He senses your desperation and lets it linger before he begins again:

"Now what I Can do is give you a choice." His tone turns even more serious and businesslike, "if you rush to tilt your head to the left, you will survive but you introverted intuition function will be rendered unusable for the rest of your life. Now if you rush to tilt your head right, you will survive as well, but your introverted sensing function will be rendered unusable for the rest of your life. If you turn into any other direction, you will just die"

He holds three fingers in front of you. He lowers the fist one: 2. Then 1. Then you are out of fingers.

"Choose wisely"

Time starts at a sloughed pace, as if it has been woken up from a nap. You feel the power of movement, once more. In the drawn out split second, you turn you head ____________


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## vocalist (Jul 21, 2010)

> I guess this post might seem a bit defensive. But the thing is, I want to go into a career in psychology and international relations. I want to spend my life studying people and the ways in which we relate to each other, express ourselves, arrange ourselves into societies, form our cultures, and where that's going to take us in the future. I want to understand- and try to improve. Being an INFJ would mean that at least I have a natural aptitude towards the thing I want to do, which isn't something that happens very often.


This part definitely makes you sound like an INFJ. The desire to help people, and to improve society according to our own personal vision, seems to be a hallmark of INFJs. For instance, I want to be a personal trainer for pregnant and post-partum women to help improve the health of that population, as well as giving them the "tools" they need to give their children a healthier start in life.



Humaning said:


> A stray bullet from a gang shootout flies straight at your head.
> 
> You have absolutely no way of stopping the missile. It is going to hit your brain.
> 
> ...


Haha, I like this :crazy:


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

Thank you, Vocalist. The words in red speak my own Truth, as well; it is how I live my life Today so that I find Integrity Tomorrow.


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## Viveke (Aug 26, 2010)

@Humaning,
Well I did some more research into cognitive functions, and Ni is more important to me. So, right 



vocalist said:


> This part definitely makes you sound like an INFJ. The desire to help people, and to improve society according to our own personal vision, seems to be a hallmark of INFJs. For instance, I want to be a personal trainer for pregnant and post-partum women to help improve the health of that population, as well as giving them the "tools" they need to give their children a healthier start in life.


Yeah...I'm pretty sure I'm an INFJ, but on the border in some places like napoleon 227 suggested. And that sounds like a really cool job  

Thank you so much to everyone who responded!


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