# Sticky  The 27 Tritype/Archetype Descriptions



## madhatter

Okay, people, it's the day you've all been waiting for. Or it would have been the day you've been waiting for if you had known to wait for it. This is a thread for descriptions for each of the 27 archetypes/tritypes. It's a slap-dash compilation of tritype information collected from the Fauvres, Enneagram Institute Discussion Board, and many other miscellaneous sites. It may not be pretty, but it's all in one place for your convenience. Enjoy.

[Edit:] Oh, there's going to be some overlap between the types. If one post pertained to two tritypes, I posted it in both tritypes. Also, some tritypes' descriptions are longer than others. Some are shorter, simply because that's all I could find on them. Some of you will have better fortune than others in this regard.


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## madhatter

125 – The Mentor Archetype

The 125 is focused on helping others through their information, being a mentor and being of service. This is a scholar archetype. Caring but practical and knowledgeable. The life mission is to manifest ideals that help people in need and the blind spot is an over-focus on procedure or protocol that gets in the way of being of true service to others

(2)-5-1 - The Competent 2
2-(5)-1 - The Compliant 5
2-5-(1) - The Power-Seeking 1

Very controlling and demanding, but also very helpful advisers. They feel they understand much of the world and how it should be. They try to help people by providing them advice sometimes unwanted advice. They have high expectations of others, and may tend to push people to their limits.

5-1-2: Most orderly Five. Wants knowledge to make change. Often socially-focused. Friendly Five.

15-2 : Scholar -> more focused on learning from and helping other researchers

Other persistent tritypes are the 125, 145, 468. Aggression with tenacity or persistence makes one able to be relentless in their pursuits.

If you are a 125, you are very diligent, caring, and knowledgeable. You want to be ethical, helpful, and wise. You are very idealistic and see what needs to be doe and the simple and effective ways to do it. You are intensely private but care about people.. You seek practical systems and procedures to measure results and effectiveness

Your life mission is to use your wisdom to provide the information needed to manifest ideals that help those in need. A true mentor, you are happiest when you can help others improve themselves.

Your blindspot is that you can be so identified with your standards and procedures that you can fail to trust your heart and can appear to be overly judgmental, cold and indifferent. You can also over-give and then feel overwhelmed.

Tritype 5-1-2 most likely reaching out method--inquisitiveness, service.

Basically, I see the 1-2-5 as tipping things, in the heart triad, towards the sort of self-sacrificial idealism of 1 -- but at the cost of competency preoccupation which 3 brings. A warmer, maybe less scientific person, who will more readily throw science out the window for the sake of helping others. Both Twos and Threes have a kind of workaholism, so I see that as persisting, but Threes work better alone, and I think the 1-3-5 is ultimately the more reclusive trifix combo, the scholar, the diligent student, the expert practitioner, whereas 1-2-5 is more like the field doctor, or medic, or veterinarian. Objective, but involved, and conscious of others. Maybe they do a lot of detailed work on their own, but they see themselves moreover as being in service of others. In some ways, 1-2-5 is a more "balanced" trifix/tritype. 1-3-5 gets overloaded with competency issues and comes out becoming too rigid, too logical for humanitarian work -- people seem too chaotic, 1-3-5's know their own abilities and studies best, so they stick with those. They aren't "by the book" but would rather write the book themselves. They suffer more from feeling that they lack the innate ability to help others, so they practice more, try to get ahead, prepare, theorize, get involved with projects that keep face-to-face interaction to a minimum, but want to get things just right. More perfectionist, more critical.

five with a one fix: focused, serious tone. critical outlook. Theme of sacrifice, dissolves wholly into their projects. Special interest in knowledge, skill, and discoveries to improve health, society, the future, and the like. Concerned for others in the abstract; difficult to get close to.

2-5s - They're schemers at heart. They combine their intellectuality with their emotionality to create sure-fire strategies that are bound to end with them projecting a "positive" image. They learn as much as possible from their environment to understand its rules and regulations, so they can then proceed to accommodate their image to it and therefore "fit in". This was the problem with Alice, as she could not understand her environment, thus her 5-fix had trouble. And because her 5-fix had trouble understanding, then her 2-type could not accommodate to the environment so easily. This led her to become frustrated and upset with her environment for not providing her coherent and consistent rules. The inconsistency of the rules and her natural tendency to accommodate the rules around her is what led her to become confused about her image.

1-2-5 : these Ones are kind, helpful and altruistic, but also a bit more introverted and reserved. They usually give to others without asking very much in return, mainly because they dislike receiving something from other people. They can have a vague push-pull dynamic to them: they can be very generous and involved with people, but they will as well demand time alone to rebuild their energy and sort out their thoughts. They often have a wise appearance and enjoy learning and teaching things to others.

typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 1w2 
similar tritypes: 1-5-2, 2-1-5 
flavours: dutiful, altruistic, considerate and wise 

1-5-2 : this is an introverted, intellectual and rather altruistic One, who desires to invest their efforts in building a better world for all. Although they’re reserved and somewhat hard to get to know, they prefer to work for selfless, humanitarian purposes and they are excellent teachers with lots of patience, knowledge and a wise kindness to them. The world of academia fits them well as they are erudite, idealistic and they like people.

usual subtypes: social, self-preserving, 1w9, 1w2
similar tritypes: 5-1-2, 1-2-5
flavours: wise, knowledgeable, scholarly and kind

5-2-1: these Fives enjoy using their knowledge and expertise in the benefit of others and are typically attracted to humanitarian causes. They are more altruistic and generous than other Fives and also more social, involved and controlling. They want to help other people and usually do it by teaching them how to help themselves – they can make good teachers. However they have some trouble with acknowledging their own problems and needs and tend to protect their inner world by focusing on others.

typical subtypes: social, 5w6
similar tritypes: 5-1-2, 2-5-1
flavours: altruistic, social, devoted and controlling

5-1-2: these Fives could make great teachers – they are precise, ethical, thorough, disciplined, but also altruistic and willing to help other people. They are usually moral and righteous individuals, who have high ideals and are willing to stand by a cause they believe in. Their interest in people and commitment to knowledge and improvement can turn them into crusaders for theories and systems that can make the world a better place, sometimes at the cost of their own physical and emotional needs.

typical subtypes: social, 5w6
similar tritypes: 5-2-1, 1-5-2
flavours: idealistic, conscientious, principled and ethical


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## madhatter

126 – The Supporter Archetype

If you are a 126, you are discerning, caring and inquisitive. You want to be ethical, helpful and cooperative. Highly responsible, you are most comfortable when you do things by the book and know what to expect. Focused on the needs and concerns of others, you seek ways to be of service.
Your life mission is to find structured ways to give, and be of assistance to others. A true helper, you are happiest when you are in a position to support others achieve their goals.
You can be overly fixed in your opinion of what is right and be rigid in your expectations of yourself and others and thus come across as disapproving or militant.

261...complaint

2-6-1 - The Obedient

This type ignores their own desires. They are very loyal and act as they feel they should and often for others. They want to serve and they tend to expect others to as well.

For example, A 2 that occasionally deals with anxiety by distracting themselves, and deals with anger by controlling their surroundings, would be a 2-7-8, and would be different to a different two that deals with anxiety with vigilance, distrust of authority, and anger by being self critical, which would be 2-6-1.

the 126, 216 and 612, are all focused on helping and being supportive of others regardless of which type is dominant.

1-2-6: Fear of desperateness, humiliation and doubt. Tendency to seek things they will accept, approval and assurance.

So, the 136, 137 and 126 would most focus on preparing, being busy and responsible.

1-2-6 : a devoted, friendly, affiliative and altruistic One, very dedicated and conscientious but also more controlling and possessive of others. Seek people’s company and want to help them but sometimes tend to become a little manipulative and demanding, expecting appreciation and loyalty in return for their efforts. They are affectionate, caring and reliable friends and partners, but at times they can struggle with anxiety and start worrying about things going wrong.
usual subtypes: social, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-6-2, 2-1-6, 6-1-2
flavours: helpful, devoted, giving and demanding

1-6-2 : responsible, dutiful and devoted friends, these Ones are more affiliative and empathetic than others. Friendship and mutually-supportive relationships are important to them and so are trust, loyalty and integrity. They can be more rigid and rule-bound because of their insecurities: they are slow to change their old beliefs even when they’re proven wrong, and they’re usually steadfast and honest people. They’re somewhat suspicious and skeptical, but once they trust someone they are capable of great generosity.
usual subtypes: social, self-preserving, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-2-6, 6-1-2, 2-1-6
flavours: responsible, loyal, honest and traditionalist

621 [transcribed from Fauvre video:] “When these three types come together, you get someone that is very focused on being of assistance. The 2 wants to help people. The 6 wants to help, in their own way. They want to be of assistance and be connected to you. And then, the 1 wants to do what’s right. So, when these three types come together, you have someone who feels that they should help, and they must be of assistance and be kind to others. It is also a very diligent 6; that 1 brings the diligence, and the 2 brings a lot of compassion. We feel more warmth whenever the 6 has 2 in the tritype. ...All three types have rigidity in their character structure. ...The growing edge for 621/126/etc. tritype is to begin to let go of the structure of how you should be, and instead listening to your heart and intuition.
--[For the body center, although I have some 9, I tend to lean on 1. I’m a perfectionist, wanting to make things right, to a kind of sense of certainty there...knowing what’s right, what’s best to do. I get a little judgmental and critical at times...]
When you have 1 and 6 coming together, you also get that tendency to critique things, and can be critical. And he has a gentleness, that you know that someone’s really there. The compassion’s there, but there’s a firm inner-core. Also, warmth and professionalism. You have that friendly rapport, which is the 6 and 2 coming together, but you also have that understanding of structure, process, and the teacher quality. 6s that have more of the 9 aren’t necessarily more obvious as teachers or mentors. That 1 and 6 combination gives us a little more tasking 6, and a little bit more solid 6, and a 6 that’s going to be a little more on their own agenda then the 6 with the 9.” 

261 and 269 seem like they should be similar but are actually very different types of 2. Both are helpful, dutiful and kindhearted. The 269 is the good samaritan that is very helpful, mellow and passive. They struggle with asserting themselves but work tirelessly for others. The 261 is the true militant 2 that is very 1-ish and strident with a focus on being of service. They can think that they are a 1 at first especially with the social instinct.

612 The Supporter. Discerning and caring 6. This 6 is often mistaken for a 1 or 2 as they are orderly and helpful. They seek a channel to be helpful and supportive. They want structured ways to be of assistance and are often the good Samaritan.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, targeted, chaos, being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, corruptible, condemned, being worthless, needy, unhelpful, unappreciated, immutable, and inconsequential.


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## madhatter

127 – The Teacher Archetype

what kind of one-liner would you give for a 7-1-2?: Katherine described it as a person needing to find structured ways to play and be of service. They like to teach and to support others. It's the classic elementary school teacher archetype that wants to find innovative but structured ways to make learning or improving enjoyable to people. The blindspot is they can become so attached to their way of doing "fun" and innovation that they can gloss over negative feelings that need to be addressed or become too rigid in their expectations thus making things not fun.

127, 271, 712 - The Teacher: You want to be with people. You seek fun with a purpose, needing goals as well as time to play and celebrate. You love discovering new things and sharing what you learn with others. Your mission is to help those in need of guidance, hope, and inspiration. A true teacher, you are happiest when you can use your teaching skills to make learning a creative and enjoyable experience. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on what is appropriate and pleasing that you stop listening to your feelings, and rigidly maintain unrealistic ideals. You can also be hyper-focused on keeping things overly positive and upbeat. Your growing edge is to be willing to experience emotonal pain. You can be overly identified with positive emotions and appropriate behavior. Negative emotions teach us what we are feeling and are an important aspect of any decision making process.

The 371 is very positive, orderly and success oriented. They are focused on the goal and building the foundation especially if self-pres. They are often empire builders. They need completion. The 271 is less foundational and more people oriented. They are very positive and upbeat. They focus more on relationship whereas the 371 focuses on the achievement.

‎271 is the archetype of the teacher. When 2 is dominant there is a strong passion to want to teach something of an interpersonal nature. Yes, you are very different from one another...different gifts...different dilemmas but complimentary. The 271 is the positive energy with a mission to teach and inspire other... fun with a purpose.

(2)-7-1 - The Idealistic 2
2-(7)-1 - The Compliant 7
2-7-(1) - The Positive 1

Very friendly and somewhat delusional type.

1-2-7 : this is usually a very friendly One: fairly generous, caring, optimistic and also a bit playful when having a good day. Prefers being around people and is afraid of being lonely and unloved. This tritype is more compassionate, tolerant and understanding and has a desire to help other people and make their lives happier, therefore they have many friends. They enjoy a good laugh and occasionally a bit of variety as well.
usual subtypes: social, sexual, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-7-2, 2-1-7
flavours: friendly, sociable, kind and approachable

1-7-2 : this is usually a healthier One: generous, open, friendly, and willing to kick back and have fun more often. Avoid loneliness and try to keep a busy schedule, with lots of projects and things to do – they usually also bring most of them to completion. This tritype is more tolerant and accepting of change and differences: they enjoy trying something new every once in a while. They are more flexible and outgoing, more playful and optimistic than other Ones.
typical subtypes: sexual, social, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-2-7, 2-1-7
flavours: friendly, generous, optimistic and humorous


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## madhatter

135 The Technical Expert Archetype

The 135, 358, and 359 tritypes are naturally inclined to be tenacious and persistent.

The 361 is an incredibly discerning, focused and responsible type. She said they will be the most inclined to want to live up to a successful image by societal standards and to focus on duty in order to feel valuable. She called it the "true taskmaster" that is inclined to create structure and rules that others in society can follow and to implement them. She said the blindspot is that one can be so overly focused on the rules that they can loose touch with their own values and feelings in deference to what is acceptable or societally defined. This is the type at risk of becoming robotic (along with the 135). However the 351 is less relational than the 361.

3-5-1 tritype: driven, self disciplined, success and image oriented (but the image is not one of flash. It's ALWAYS perfect and appropriate.)...discerning, self demanding and judgmental with a focus on control. Extremely productive and hardworking, she barely gives herself a break, but when she does it's like a huge release. It's always planned though...Highly intelligent and focused, but can be narrow-minded at times, even though she's capable of seeing other perspectives if she's convinced of the "rightness" of hers she will be harsh, critical and obstinate.

135, 351, 531

If you are a 135, you are diligent, focused and knowledgeable. You want to be ethical, efficient and wise. Highly rational, you seek systems and procedures. Detail oriented, you like mathematical concepts and finding ways to breakdown and understand complex material. You are very precise and good with your hands.	

Your life mission is to be focused and to use your powers of observation to achieve goals. A true technical expert, you feel happiest when you use your knowledge and precision skills to create, achieve and teach.

You can be so focused on what you perceive is accurate, effective and logical that you can appear to be cold and distant. Your attention to detail is so critical in your life that the key is to recognize that it governs your decisions.

351...competent

all three Focused Responder Enneacards
(Enneagram Types: 1, 3 & 5)
You see yourself as controlled, disciplined, tenacious and pragmatic. You avoid error and sloppiness in your work and people who over-focus on their emotions. Naturally focused and perfectionistic, you like to set goals. You prefer to respond when you have had time to assess and evaluate.

3-5-1 - The Objectivist

They conduct themselves in highly competent and rational manner. They usually know exactly how to reach their goals and work very diligently to reach those goals.

5-1-3: Most scientific and remote Five. Most technical. Uncomfortable with intense feelings.

1-3-5 : a rather ambitious, elitist and goal-oriented One, very hard-working and somewhat intellectually arrogant. They rarely show their feelings and therefore they usually seem cold and very self-assured. These Ones are generally well-read, well-mannered and quite intellectually refined: they like to impress others with their intelligence, wisdom and irreproachable work.
usual subtypes: social, self-preserving, 1w9
similar tritypes: 1-5-3, 3-1-5, 5-1-3
flavours: competent, intellectual, ambitious and refined

1-5-3 : usually introverted and elitist, prefer the scientific approach in nearly everything they do. These Ones appear colder and very self-certain but can be rather sensitive and fearful on the inside. Are afraid of failure and not meeting the expectations of others, mainly because they think they do not have enough resources for all their projects. They are hard-working, thorough and very meticulous and their work is usually impeccable. These Ones are particularly intellectual, knowledgeable and objective. 
usual subtypes: self-preserving, social 1w9
similar tritypes: 1-3-5, 5-1-3, 3-1-5
flavours: cerebral, scientific, meticulous and objective

5-3-1: one of the most cold-blooded and self-controlled of the Fives, this tritype is remarkably efficient, hard-working and competent, although a little bit anal as well. They demand recognition for their contributions and are fairly concerned with their image and intellectual value. Somewhat self-righteous and impatient with others, they are however pragmatic and tactful enough not to compromise their goals by being too inflexible. These Fives are very clever, self-confident, perfectionist, arrogant and glacial.
typical subtypes: social, self-preserving, 5w6
similar tritypes: 5-1-3, 3-5-1
flavours: cold, composed, efficient and self-important

5-1-3: exacting, methodical, organized and fairly self-righteous, these Fives have a compulsive need for logic and order in their environment. They are hard-working and more practical and pragmatic than other Fives, focusing on the efficiency and improvement of the systems that interest them. They also enjoy and expect receiving the deserved recognition for their efforts, considering their time and involvement very precious. This tritype is one of the most cool-headed, rigid and self-controlled.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w6
similar tritypes: 5-3-1, 3-5-1, 1-5-3
flavours: exigent, methodical, formal and efficient
Employing mechanisms based on a feeling of competence. (1-3-5)

I would consider myself 531. This doesn't mean I read all the profiles and decided that I identify with each of these in this relative order, nor does it just mean that I seek knowledge, achievement, and rightness. Rather, I have found there to be my primary patterns of dealing with reality when I look across my lifespan. Also, when I get into ruts, it's usually governed by one of these three areas, with the type 5 being the primary problem. Most of my self-monitoring goes into watching the type 5 pattern play out on a day-to-day basis, but I also need to watch for type 3 problems with anything related to my self-image and type 1 problems with anything related to... well, "gut" stuff.

Basically, I see the 1-2-5 as tipping things, in the heart triad, towards the sort of self-sacrificial idealism of 1 -- but at the cost of competency preoccupation which 3 brings. A warmer, maybe less scientific person, who will more readily throw science out the window for the sake of helping others. Both Twos and Threes have a kind of workaholism, so I see that as persisting, but Threes work better alone, and I think the 1-3-5 is ultimately the more reclusive trifix combo, the scholar, the diligent student, the expert practitioner, whereas 1-2-5 is more like the field doctor, or medic, or veterinarian. Objective, but involved, and conscious of others. Maybe they do a lot of detailed work on their own, but they see themselves moreover as being in service of others. In some ways, 1-2-5 is a more "balanced" trifix/tritype. 1-3-5 gets overloaded with competency issues and comes out becoming too rigid, too logical for humanitarian work -- people seem too chaotic, 1-3-5's know their own abilities and studies best, so they stick with those. They aren't "by the book" but would rather write the book themselves. They suffer more from feeling that they lack the innate ability to help others, so they practice more, try to get ahead, prepare, theorize, get involved with projects that keep face-to-face interaction to a minimum, but want to get things just right. More perfectionist, more critical.

five with a one fix: focused, serious tone. critical outlook. theme of
sacrifice, dissolves wholly into their projects.
special interest in knowledge, skill, and discoveries
to improve health, society, the future, and the like.
concerned for others in the abstract; difficult to get
close to.


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## madhatter

136 – The Taskmaster Archetype

136/361/613

The 136/361/613 is an incredibly discerning, focused and responsible type. She said they will be the most inclined to want to live up to a successful image by societal standards and to focus on duty in order to feel valuable. She called it the "true taskmaster" that is inclined to create structure and rules that others in society can follow and to implement them. She said the blindspot is that one can be so overly focused on the rules that they can lose touch with their own values and feelings in deference to what is acceptable or societally defined. This is the type at risk of becoming robotic (along with the 135/351/513). However the 135/351/513 is less relational than the 136/361/613.

I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.

I am not 100% sure at this time but for now I am thinking 613 with 6 being very much in charge.
I am a goal-oriented person who doesn't like being controlled by others..I am a friendly person. Sometimes, I come across as too mild/passive..I see it when people think they can control me. They are often surprised when they see I don't let myself get pushed so easily. Being a phobic Six makes it hard for me to truly stand up to someone though often and I end up relying on an "avoidance strategy".
I focus mostly on competence/technical knowledge to get ahead in life so I don't go out of my way to manipulate/mobilize others.

136 tritype; elegant, stoic and resolute with a loyal professional veneer.

(3)-6-1 - The Compliant 3
3-(6)-1 - The Competent 6
3-6-(1) - The Normative 1

Very self critical. Strong ideas about how they should act and have man guidelines that they must follow and cannot deter from.

1-3-6 : this One is usually very hard-working and well-organized. Dutiful and diligent, they also keep an eye on their own interests and like to receive prizes and praise and boost their reputation among their peers. They prefer a leading role and can be excellent managers and leaders: they can get things done as they’re efficient, more pragmatic and also more cautious and calculated. They can sometimes suffer from a bit of paranoia, and worry about their status, finances or health.
usual subtypes: social, 1w9
similar tritypes: 3-1-6, 1-6-3
flavours: hard-working, pragmatic, efficient and cautious

1-6-3 : conscientious, responsible, cautious and efficient, these Ones are very practical and productive. They’re down-to-earth, realistic and typically good managers of people and resources. They’re also quite good at predicting and avoiding possible pit-falls and are talented trouble-shooters: they’re preventive and like to play it safe. Want their hard-work and thoroughness praised and (financially) rewarded, and sometimes they might act arrogantly and engage in self-praising when they feel unappreciated.
usual subtypes: social, self-preserving, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-3-6, 6-1-3
flavours: efficient, practical, cautious and hard-working

136 Compliance meets Harmony and meets Competence.

The 136 is focused on the rules.... it is an important point but they really, really task and are always busy.

631--A 6 with a strong superego. Lots of issues regarding personal competency. At lower health, the most likely of the 6s to respond negatively and reactively to pressure from others, since there is already a nearly unbearable pressure from within.
--The first impression I get from this tritype is a strong image orientation. There's a constant need to impress others and to have a positive place in the social sphere. I see a need for perfection in all things, partly out of ego and partly out of duty. There's strong loyalty to causes, but more so community ones and not personal ones. But this is a very hands-on tritype who will work to achieve what (s)he wants to achieve. I see less manipulation here than the 3 might otherwise indicate, and more focus and drive.
--That doesn't ring true for me ( I have this tritype ). Duty to those worthy of it, yes, but I don't find "societal standards" to be high standards at all, or worth emulating in the slightest. I find that most of "society" sorely disappoints, the lowest common denominator rules. I also have a deep distrust for the public in general.

So, the 136, 137 and 126 would most focus on preparing, being busy and responsible. The 1 and 6 feel they must be responsible, the 3s must do, achieve, and perform, the 4s must accomplish, the 8s must executing and so on.

I have found the 136 needs to be busy to avoid feelings of anxiety …136s can enjoy needle point, baking, cleaning, organizing and/or reading to keep the anxiety at bay.

[by timeless:] 6-1-3. That means they have the core desires of a 6, they interact with the world like a 1 and they like to be seen like a 3 would like to be seen. Breaking that down:
Type 6 is security-oriented, and can alternate between serious doubt and serious loyalty. They tend to be pretty rule-focused right off the bat (as they are a superego type) but then add 1 onto the mix and, like that tri-type description gives you, they can get fixated on constructing appropriate rules. Type 1 is usually critical of themselves and others, which is the component that enables a Type 6 to channel their desire for a workable rule set into the desire to create a workable rule set. Type 3, the image type in this triad, likes to be seen as successful and effective. You can see how adding 6, 1 and 3 together would create a personality type that's dedicated toward seeking out the best rule set.

613 The Taskmaster. Discerning and focused 6. This is the most industrious 6. Eager beavers and highly responsible, they are always busy and can be mistaken for 3s. Fear is managed by achieving. They tend to feel the burden of obligation. They focus on duty and family.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, corruptible, condemned, failure, being incapable, or unable to do, inefficient, immutable, and inconsequential.


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## madhatter

137 – The Systems Builder Archetype

If you are a 137, you are diligent, ambitious and innovative. You want to be ethical, efficient and upbeat. You are self-motivated and want to achieve your goals in a positive and effective way. You want to do your best and want to enjoy doing it. You focus on success and seek ways to measure it.
Your life mission is to figure out what needs to be done and find a pleasant way to do it. A true perfectionist, you are happiest when you enjoy life while successfully meeting your goals.
You can be so focused on what others view as appropriate, positive and successful that you miss seeing what is necessary and truly important to you.

The 371 is very positive, orderly and success oriented. They are focused on the goal and building the foundation especially if self-pres. They are often empire builders. They need completion. The 271 is less foundational and more people oriented. They are very positive and upbeat. They focus more on relationship whereas the 371 focuses on the achievement.

The 731 Tritype is known as the "Systems Builder" Tritype, which is a very focused, productive, and creative Tritype! The 731, even moreso if the 7 is in charge, will like to be positive and upbeat, and will be focused on finding out what needs to be done, and finding the most pleasant and efficient way to do so. One blindspot is that this Tritype can be very perfectionistic, and can have a tendency to miss seeing what is important to them because they have become overly focused on what appears to be successful, positive, or appropriate to others.

(3)-7-1 - The Idealistic 3
3-(7)-1 - The Competent 7
3-7-(1) - The Aggressive 1

Pseudo-realist. They believe they know who they are and what the world is like. May suffer from delusions.

Transcribed from the Fauvres’ video: “Well, it’s an interesting combination, because the 1, the 3 and the 7 are all focused on different ways to look at something to build. So, the 1 is looking at the foundational details and qualities needed for something to be done well. And, the 3 is looking for the most effective and efficient way to do something. And, the 7 has the vision. So, those three types come together you have someone that’s really good at knowing what to do and how to approach it in a fun way. So, they want to meet their goals (and in this case 3 is in charge), but they also want to do it in a way that’s pleasant. They want it to be enjoyable. They want to be interpersonal. But they want to do it well. [This is someone who has two perfectionist types, 1 and 3, but then they have that 7 coming in there, saying ‘Let’s make it fun and let’s keep it positive’. The life purpose for this type is to figure out what needs to be done and find a pleasant way to do it. They’re a true systems builder with a positive attitude. The blind spot for this type is that they can be so focused on what others view as appropriate, positive and successful that they miss seeing what is necessary and truly important to themselves.] Let’s look at the growing edge, what happens when you have that blindspot. Then, the growing edge is to focus on your inner world, because those three types tend to focus on external successes, especially when 3 is in charge. And the journey for this archetype, tritype, is to begin to look at the resources internally, and have the internal and external match. 
[So, my tritype is 371 and it took me a while observing strategies I was using and I definitely realized that I did use the 3, the 7 and the 1. One of the ways that I recognized that is that I have a lot of perfectionism in my work. I want to make sure that whatever it is I’m doing, it’s just not the best, but it’s also really just perfect. And, at the same time, I like to be creative, and I like my freedom. So, I knew that 7 was in there someplace.] 
Well, the knowing what is pleasant, like ending with a smile. We’ll notice that not everyone ends with a smile. Both the image type of 3 wants to have that pleasant quality, it’s appropriate for the 1, and it’s enjoyable for the 7. So you’ll see it in the micro-expressions and you’ll see it also in the word choices.” 

1-3-7 : a more socially-adaptable, goal-oriented and competitive One, that usually has many friends and connections. Usually extroverted, assertive people, they make natural leaders although they can be a little too narcissistic and self-important. They’re good motivators and can come up with visionary ideas which they have the required determination and self-discipline to put in practice. They normally have a handy social network and can be quite entertaining and charismatic when needed.
usual subtypes: social, 1w2, 1w9
similar tritypes: 3-1-7, 1-7-3
flavours: assertive, ambitious, attractive and ingenious

1-7-3 : these Ones are quite charming and socially adept. They are more flexible and open-minded and seek having a good time and knowing the right people. They are more selfish and less rule-bound: they have a tendency to only consider the rules that suit their goals and interests. This tritype can become a bit boastful and arrogant at times. They like having a larger group of friends that cherish them and follow their ideals.
typical subtypes: social, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-3-7, 3-1-7
flavours: sociable, resourceful, engaging and self-confiden

From what I've read, goal orientated 371's can do well in sales, whether that's in occupations such as real estate, advertising or promotions work. This would make sense. Good with details, smooth with people. I've heard they "want to do good and look good doing it". Not always a pleasure to work for when things get tough. Frustration meets Competence meets Assertiveness does not make for the most compassionate soul.

A 371 said that when she moves to 1 it surprises her because this normally upbeat yet focused woman moves into righteous indignation and zeal and shocks her friends and family.

So, the 136, 137 and 126 would most focus on preparing, being busy and responsible. The 1 and 6 feel they must be responsible, the 3s must do, achieve, and perform, the 4s must accomplish, the 8s must executing and so on.

i think the 371 would execute most often and in accordance to their true goals; the 127 is the archetype of the teacher.... the 137 is very similar...but the busy is focused in a different way.


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## madhatter

145 – The Researcher Archetype

Both the 451 and 459 are reserved and introspective and self conscious. The 451 is very critical of themselves and others.They are very particular and have a lot of shoulds. They can be strident. Dissatisfaction is visible as their energy can be prickly. The 459 is more reserved and passive. They wait to be included. They are approachable but hope that others will come towards them. They are quiet in their demeanor. They project a sense of stillness. Their energy is soft and yielding. Dissatisfaction is hidden like in the 479.

145
If you are a 145, you are diligent, intuitive, and knowledgeable. You want to be ethical, original and wise. Highly intellectual, you are focused on what you perceive is correct and above reproach. Research oriented, you seek and quote the opinions of experts to avoid being seen as ignorant.

Your life mission is to study and learn as much as you can and then teach the wisdom of what you have learned to others. A true researcher, you are happiest using your investigative skills.

You can be so identified with the information that you have gathered and the correct way of doing things that you feel exhausted and can appear to be a persnickety know it all.

478 and 451 are very different types of 4. The 478 is intensely individualistic and more assertive whereas the 451 is individualistic but much more introspective and reserved. The 478 is somewhat optimistic and focuses more on the need for inspiration than the 451. The 451 is more particular and is more motivated by gathering meaningful information that is useful.

514 is also anxious especially with the 6 wing.

(4)-5-1 - The Competent 4
4-(5)-1 - The Idealistic 5
4-5-(1) - The Withdrawn 1

Intellectual. May be involved in philosophy. They enjoy coming to understand themselves and their world.

5-1-4: Most particular Five, especially if SP. Tends to hesitate.

15-4 : Researcher -> trying to bring his own personal findings and explorations to the world
Calling all 145s... You have reported a strong need to be above criticism and to avoid the glare of judgment and scrutiny. You have also reported how difficult it is for you to express yourself especially if you feel emotional.

As a 415, you would need to carve a distinct image of being unique, appropriate and wise. The 3 together create a defense strategy that focuses on getting the information needed 'to be correct' to feel safe... No one wants to be wrong, but this Tritype tends to easily feel self-conscious and can be shy. So, the 145 researches to have something interesting to say and to be above criticism.

The 514 holds themselves to the same standards but does so more from a distance. When the 5 is dominant, information becomes even more of a defense strategy. Knowledge is power and a unique perspective with diligence creates a hardworking 5 that seeks creativity...often artistic endeavors are kept private...especially if self-pres. The sexual/one to one tends to secretly pine and the social finds small elite groups that she their interests... many do so one the internet as their are fewer entanglements.

The 415's I know are most capable of intellectual circumspection with a twist of the romantic and mysterious. They seem to balance out the emotional realm with the intellectual, but sometimes my 415 friends can be overly critical and defiant of any thing that is stereotypical or oppressive that could impact their search for an ideal mate...Another thing about the 415s I know is they are very perfectionist, overly sensitive to any perceived stereotyping, and an academically-minded four, but they never quite feel self-satisfied or finished, sometimes falling into long states of procrastination...They have an amazing ability to dissect their own emotions rationally...

Think Frustration (1-4) meets Competence (1-5) meets Withdrawing (4-5)and you get a rather persnickety perfectionist who needs plenty of downtime. On the high side what they produce can be of unparalleled depth and beauty.

out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.

451 is the most 5ish 4. Rational and scientific.

451 - knowledgeable and discerning 4. Most intellectual 4, especially if social subtyle of with a 5 wing. Likes to teach.

five with a one fix: focused, serious tone. critical outlook. theme of
sacrifice, dissolves wholly into their projects.
special interest in knowledge, skill, and discoveries
to improve health, society, the future, and the like.
concerned for others in the abstract; difficult to get
close to.

1-4-5 : a rather introverted and withdrawn One, more creative, original and abstract than most. Prefers the realm of imagination and has very high ideals and standards, especially in what concerns romantic relationships. They’re harder to get to know because they can be very reserved, moody and somewhat picky. They have artistic inclinations and can be quite whimsical and creative. Tend to feel overwhelmed by the real world and hide in their own perfect worlds of fantasy. Prone to bouts of existential depression.
usual subtypes: self-preserving, sexual, 1w9
similar tritypes: 1-5-4, 4-1-5
flavours: solitary, melancholic, critical and whimsical

1-5-4 : a reserved, cerebral and fairly intuitive One, who has a preference for the realm of the thought and the abstract. They can be very theoretical and philosophical and like to be alone and ponder things for a long time. They have a developed imagination and a deep insight into the nature of things and people. Mainly isolationists, they have a tendency towards spareness and austerity and are generally economical and even avaritious. At times experience gloomy moods which they strangely enjoy.
usual subtypes: self-preserving, 1w9
similar tritypes: 1-4-5, 5-1-4
flavours: theoretical, philosophical, hoarding and insightful

5-4-1: these Fives are perhaps the most typical of this type’s usual description – they’re withdrawn, imaginative, ingenious, detail-oriented and sensitive. Very intelligent and creative but also somewhat capricious, fussy and impractical, they have explicit standards of intellectual ability and artistic taste and tend to reject and ridicule anything and anyone that doesn’t rise up to them. Typical isolationists who feel misunderstood by society, they hide in their ivory tower of ideas and ideals, abstractly reconstructing reality according to their own terms.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, sexual, 5w4
similar tritypes: 4-5-1, 1-5-4
flavours: individualistic, elegant, inventive and nit-picking

5-1-4: these Fives stand out by being rather fussy - they’re pretentious and perfectionist and can be highly demanding of their environment. Idealistic and principled, these Fives can be very criticizing and rejecting of people and situations that do not meet their standards – many would call them fastidious. To a certain extent, they believe themselves to be superior and different from others - misunderstood but brilliant. Indeed their intellect, insightfulness and logical thinking, as well as their physical and emotional fragility contribute to an overly cerebral image.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, 5w4, 5w6
similar tritypes: 1-5-4, 5-4-1
flavours: principled, precise, finicky and sensitive


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## madhatter

146 – The Philosopher Archetype

146
If you are a 146, you are diligent, intuitive, and inquisitive. You want to be ethical, original and certain. Morally focused, you have strong emotions and are inclined to voice your feelings and intuitions. You care deeply and want to help others improve the expectations they have of themselves.

Your life mission is to find truth and help others understand what has intrinsic value. A true philosopher, you are happiest when you can use your intuition to help others find meaning.

You can be so identified with what you perceive is the morally correct way of being that you can come across as overly prudish, rigid and inflexible.

146s of all core types tend to be poised and prudent, almost as though they were consulting with their inner critic to have each word screened before it passes their lips. When you're conversing with them, there's always a third party present: the judge. It can seem like they're always standing at attention. They're also oddly picky about minutiae in most (if not all) areas of life, almost as though they were looking for little things to be picky about.
This is very true of the 146s I know. They can be so moralistic. The so/sp is even more prudent. I think Katherine says they are really hard on themselves. They are the most critical of the tritype combinations. They expect a lot from themselves and others. I feel for them.

461: Inquisitive and discerning 4. Most compliant and rule-oriented 4. 6ish. Tends to run high anxiety especially if self-preserving.

David Fauvre also said that 461's have a bit of a 'bite' to them.

The 486 is much more assertive that the 416. The 416, 459 and 469 all struggle with painful self-consciousness and inhibition. The 461 tends to being very critical of themselves to avoid being criticized. This tritype is very particular. The 416 hesitates and the 486 impulsively reacts. A perceived threat to the primary instinct triggers the tritype.

Any combination that has a 6 runs anxiety. Any tritype that has self-pres as the dominant instinct is motivated by anxiety. The tritypes that tend to run high anxiety are the 614 and 694... and then 629 and 639.

(4)-6-1 - The Compliant 4
4-(6)-1 - The Idealistic 6
4-6-(1) - The Reactive 1

This type is somewhat neurotic. Perfectionistic. May push themselves beyond their physical capability. At the same time they tend to believe themselves to be better than most.

641, and he's a perennial hothead who does a fair bit of ranting

I'd been assuming I was a 4-6-9, but I didn't relate to hardly any of the 9 keywords. Am I calm? Patient? No way! I'm the total opposite. To my surprise, I related more to the 1 and even the 8 keywords. My sheet of self-description had a lot of 9y things on it, but I really don't feel like a 9. We all had a bit of trouble figuring it out for me because of that, but we settled on 4-6-1, because I relate so much to the 'self-controlled' and all that, have an extremely loud superego, and am always worrying about whether I'm doing the right thing. And it really explains so much. Most of why I act so much like a 9 is because my superego is constantly pressuring me to. You wouldn't think that a 4-6-9 would be told so constantly that I 'don't know how to relax.' As a kid, I wasn't 9ish at all. I acted like a 4, 6 or 1 all the time. I have a strong compliant, conventional and 'obey the rules' streak. My 6 has got to be almost purely phobic because I don't react like a 6, although I have anxiety and doubt to boot (I joke about being a 'phobic 4' sometimes). I've often felt like I was a superego type and a really strong frustration type, and that explains it. That explains why I feel so much like I'm trapped in a cage and beating my wings against the bars, which is a feeling my type and stacking and wing didn't seem to fully explain. No wonder I didn't see much in trifix theory before--I was assigning myself the wrong one. It was a huge surprise. And god, it's a relief.

1-4-6: Fear of desperateness, dullness and doubt. Tendency to seek things they will accept, poignance and assurance.

When the 4 and 6 are in the tritype there is more negativity as a strategy to prevent making a mistake that will bring shame, blame and criticism. This is most true of the 461 and then 468 and then the 469.

1-4-6 : these Ones are quite imaginative, creative and a bit melancholic. They are extreme perfectionists and can easily feel discouraged and let down by the imperfect world around. They don’t easily trust others and tend to avoid society, but at the same time they crave being loved and belonging. They also have a bit of a temper so their anger can show especially when feeling misunderstood. They tend to support the underdog and they can have a passionate, belligerent streak to them.
usual subtypes: sexual, social, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-6-4, 4-1-6
flavours: imaginative, passionate, suspicious and sensitive

1-6-4 : very dutiful and faithful but also prone to angry reactions and, rarely, depression bouts in isolation. This is a more anxious One that finds it harder to hide his anger and his concern with the loyalty and reliability of those around. Can experience strong like/dislike feelings about people and situations and is more suspicious and prejudiced towards newcomers and different groups. They are typically traditionalists, but will at times go against tradition in a rather rebellious way, especially when insecure.
typical subtypes: sexual, social 1w2
similar tritypes: 6-1-4, 1-4-6
flavours: faithful, anxious, discriminating and sometimes defiant

(from InsightfulInnovations [146] philosophy is centered around the belief that people should be honest, hard-working, tasteful and well…strive for perfection.
The Six in his tritype exacerbates the appearance of phobias. Jeff [Lewis] is likely the 164 tritype which heightens his emotional reactivity (both Fours and Sixes are reactive types) and creates a more persnickety personality style. As a One, Jeff channels his persnickety nature into keeping extreme order, efficiency and practicality in his work and home life. However, with the Four thrown in he ends up behaving a bit like a frustrated diva when things aren’t done to his specifications.
The following was excerpted from Katherine Fauvre’s seminal work on tritype:
146: The Philosopher
Archetype: They are “diligent, intuitive, and inquisitive. You want to be ethical, original and certain. Morally focused, you have strong emotions and are inclined to voice your feelings and intuitions. You care deeply and want to help others improve their lives and the expectations they have of themselves.”
Core Triggers: Feeling wrong, inadequate and/or uncertain.
Core Fears: The core fears are of being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, unqualified, corruptible, nonredeemable, condemned, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, mundane, ordinary, commonplace, being abandoned, fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, and deviance, uncertainty, targeted, and chaos.
Blind Spot: The blind spot is that they can be so identified with what they perceive is the morally correct way of being that they can come across as overly prudish, rigid and inflexible. When they feel insecure, they can be overly critical of themselves and others and appear to be a snob.
Growing Edge: The growing edge is to recognize that authenticity is not cultivated. Their inclination is to create a sense of self around an identity of being informed and educated. Sophistry is a mimic of being. True awareness comes from being present to the moment rather than developing an image of being ‘in the know’.

614
The Philosopher. Discerning and intuitive 6. This is the most particular 6. This 6 is very creative especially with the 7 wing. They can be torn between the need for meaning and need to be dutiful and responsible. This 6 is often drawn to teaching.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, unqualified, corruptible, condemned, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, and being abandoned.

Anxiety and worry increase with the 1 and doubt and uncertainty with the 9. Examine your motivations rather than your behaviors. This is especially difficult for the 6, but more so for the 649 as all 3 types tend to doubt as a defense strategy. This is the Tritype that is most reluctant to take a stand for their "own" opinion until they are angry. The 641 has all 3 types that fear making a mistake and being at risk for having done so. They tend to be more likely to show frustration and to correct and instruct others ( especially for the so 641).

your descriptions sound more like sp1 in the gut. As a sp6 you have a natural iine of connection to sp9. Research has shown that you move to your wings and lines of connection with the same dominant instinct running the show. When your sp6 moves to sp9 and sp3 it is momentary and adding to you sp6. When you shift in your tritype your sp6 shifts to the 1 for solutions and runs all permutations of the 1 driven by the needs and concerns of the self-pres. The confusion may be that sp1 worries much like a 6 but the focus is on improving. So your instinct may have made it more difficult to land on the 614. Take your time. The 694 is much more hidden and inhibited. The 641 is focused on the perfecting and refining...getting it right.

Both 4s and 6s can be emotional. The questions is what are you emotional about? In terms of difficult behaviors...
6s identify a source to prove
4s identify a source to impress
641 particular, fussy

Compliance (1-6) meets frustration (1-4) meets intensity (4-6). Very anxiety-prone combination ("stressure"). High-strung perfectionists who strongly value the "correct" way of doing things. On the high side, they often make excellent teachers of the arts or anything they're passionate about.

I see the fix as somewhat harmonious. Six and Four share reactivity. Six and One share compliance. Four and One share DOI/DOD (direction of integration and disintegration). Regarding respective (emotional) triadic roles, One represents repression, Four introversion, and Six ambiversion/ambivalence. If anything, I think this trifix would result in a kind of over-obedience and lack of spontaneity/open-endedness. A less "extraverted" gestalt

146 - There is also a "zeal" for action for this type, but it will realize much earlier if what they're doing has no real meaning and will look for something else. They still might feel that they've "sold out" just to ensure security and doing the "right" thing. They need to trust what they intuitively sense and act accordingly, and learn to do this with others, i.e. they must trust what others feel is right for themselves and gives these people room to do that despite the very strong intuitions of this tritype.


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## madhatter

147 – The Visionary Archetype






147
“I experience myself as being intensely idealistic and perfectionistic. I also experience a lot of internal tension from having both 7 and 1 in my tritype. Sometimes I allow myself to be bold, playful and uninhibited, and other times I feel very serious, reserved and self conscious. I'm still pretty optimistic for a 4 and I think the future can and certainly should be better than it is and that there's a way to get there. I find myself to be frustrated with present circumstances though.”
Yeah, what you wrote above really echoes what Katherine has found with the 471. It is the most idealistic of all the tritypes having all 3 idealists. This is the type that is both diligent, creative and intuitive. She said the blindspot is that the identification with the high ideals can create a sense of being inflexible in standards and rigid. She also said this is the type most likely to alternate between being the life of the party and feeling inhibited and needing to be appropriate. The life mission is to bring visualize ways to create meaningful change and teach or inspire others toward higher values of excellence.

The 7 is what allows you to be bold (and the 4) but that 1 in there creates a stronger superego that likely says "you must be good, ethical, right, and appropriate" so there will be a clamping down of the spontaneous energy. With a 3 wing and social subtype I would imagine this person would be very productive and inclined to stay busy in order to avoid to inevitable emotional flood of the 4. With a 5 wing there might be more of an interest in academic or intellectual pursuits.


The 471 and the 479 are both focused on the vision, creativity and the magical. The difference is in the gut center. The 471 has 3 types with access to 1, so are very critical of themselves and feel they must manifest the vision. The 479 is less strident and more soft-spoken and gentle. They are dreamers and intuit but can be shy about pushing to manifest.

I was wondering if you had anything about the 4-7-1 tritype.
I experience myself as being intensely idealistic and perfectionistic. I also experience a lot of internal tension from having both 7 and 1 in my tritype. Sometimes I allow myself to be bold, playful and uninhibited, and other times I feel very serious, reserved and self conscious. I'm still pretty optimistic for a 4 and I think the future can and certainly should be better than it is and that there's a way to get there. I find myself to be frustrated with present circumstances though.

You have all three Idealists Enneacards
(Enneagram Types: 1, 4 & 7) in your Enneaspread.

Your emotional energy goes towards seeking ideal relationships and circumstances. You want fulfilling experiences, relationships and environments. You tend to be fussy and easily frustrated and/or disenchanted with less than ideal relationships or situations. Overall, you want a sense of idealistic perfection. You are quite discriminating and tend to compare yourself to others.

The sx471 is triple idealistic and on a mission. As two heart types you would understand one another through the connection of sexual and 4. It would be a friendship that had a lot of intensity.

4-7-1 - The Frustrated Idealist: Characterized by I having strong ideals which can never quite be met. They want things to happen a certain way have high expectations, but they usually fall short.

Could be the sx/sp stacking, mixing with the 4 in the tritype for you...I've met a lot of 7s that are on the constant chase to cool, and fashion is life for many a 7 I have known...Many designers have the 748 or 741 tritype, the need for excitement, change, to influence popular culture, feeds the primary fixation in a particular way, although many of them tend to be sx/so or sp I think.

The frustration types (7-1-4) are most comfortable between the idyll and norming phases, when they have to change things.

1-4-7 : perfectionistic, whimsical and rather picky, these Ones tend to be quite expressive and passionate. They want things to be a certain way and tend to reject whatever doesn’t precisely fit their desires. However when they appreciate something (an idea, a person, an activity), this tritype can over-indulge in it in an excessive, obsessional manner. They’re not as self-disciplined as other Ones and they’re prone to giving in to their fantasies and desires more, believing they are somewhat special and deserve special treatment.
usual subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-7-4, 4-1-7
flavours: fastidious, expressive, impatient and original

1-7-4 : more eccentric, versatile and unconventional. This tritype characterizes some of the more energetic and self-indulgent of Ones. They are somewhat more enthusiastic and dramatic, and have some difficulty finding and keeping a balance: they’re occasionally rather scattered. They can become obsessional and manic about certain ideas and things, while being surprisingly careless in other areas. When stressed out, they can get quite moody.
typical subtypes: sexual, social, 1w2
similar tritypes: 1-4-7, 7-1-4
flavours: expressive, eccentric, energetic and selfish


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## madhatter

258 – The Strategist Archetype

She says this tritype [258] wants to really be of service by providing useful information to others and protecting others through their knowledge or expertise in a particular area. The energy seems quite split because of the introverted 5 interjecting with the extroverted 2 and 8 energy mingling. She said it can be a confusing type because there is a hot/cold quality to them that can be difficult for people to understand. One minute they are helpful and warm, the next cold and rejecting, and then another seemingly directive and blunt. On the high side they really know what is needed to protect and guide others. They can sometimes feel they don't have the internal resources to help others but want to have something to offer (which contributes to the hot/cold quality). I have an aunt who is this tritype (with 2 in charge) who really exacerbates the giving with strings attached things. I'd imagine if self pres were in charge it would really amplify the notion of feeling protective over resources creating tension against the need to be a resource to others.

If you are a 258, you are caring, knowledgeable and protective. You want to be helpful, wise and straight- forward. You are an intellectual ambivert both extroverted and introverted. You are caring and can easily move towards others to help, or feel over extended and feel the need to be pull away. Your life mission is to help, inform and/or protect others. A true analyst, you are happiest when you are in a position of leadership and can use your natural instinct to understand strategic principles to guide others.
You can be so identified with your opinions that you can be too forward or too distant from others, which can appear intense, unpredictable and intimidating

[258] Triple rejection.....probably the most power-hungry of all fixes. Likely to deny that they have needs themselves, deny vulnerability, deny deny deny "it's the others who depend on me, not the other way around", and can exert a great deal of strategic insight into most situations and become the classic 'mastermind' behind affairs. When less healthy they are control freaks and can't leave others alone---they need to be the prime mover of them all, while denying all the way that they need the control.

[258] What's hard with her is that she inadvertently forces people (even friends) to be very blunt when her services, advice, or even presence is not needed. I guess it's the triple-rejection nature that brings on this. My father is the 952 tritype and this can happen with him as well, only to a lesser degree.

You have all three Realists Enneacards
(Enneagram Types: 2, 5 & 8) in your Enneaspread.
Your emotional energy goes towards seeking safety and certainty in relationships. You are sensitive to and expect rejection from others. Also, you tend to feel separate from others. You hold back your true self in relationships, offering instead, a skill, service or protection. Overall, because you expect to be rejected, you are cautious in relationships and may be hesitant to form attachments. As a result, you want others to come towards you.

2-5-8 - The Dominator

These types, more than anything, need to have the upper hand on people. They may be manipulative and/or domineering. Very often, power hungry.

5-8-2: Most personable and people-oriented Five, especially if SOC. Amplified with the Six wing.

five with an eight fix: least intellectual, though perhaps the most mentally
intense. unsettled by occasional fits of temper,
sudden outbursts. affixed to notions of power;
attitude of resigned realist. quietly guarded and
insistent, may put others ill at ease.

eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality.

The rejection types (8-2-5), they said, are most comfortable at the initiation stage of a project or group, when they have to initiate and control things.

2-5s - They're schemers at heart. They combine their intellectuality with their emotionality to create sure-fire strategies that are bound to end with them projecting a "positive" image. They learn as much as possible from their environment to understand its rules and regulations, so they can then proceed to accomodate their image to it and therefore "fit in". This was the problem with Alice, as she could not understand her environment, thus her 5-fix had trouble. And because her 5-fix had trouble understanding, then her 2-type could not accomodate to the environment so easily. This led her to become frustrated and upset with her environment for not providing her coherent and consistent rules. The inconsistency of the rules and her natural tendency to accomodate the rules around her is what led her to become confused about her image.

8-2-5: Fear of weakness, humiliation and disenchantment. Tendency to seek strength, approval and intrigue.

I was reading through some of your tritype materials and I realized that you describe the blind spot for 258 and 458 as very similar--both as being cynical, headstrong, passionate, and moody. What kinds of things would you look for to differentiate these two? --Anytime you have two of the same types in a Tritype archetype, there is obviously going to be overlap. The 4 brings more moodiness, more depth, more introspection; the 2 is more extroverted, more focused on helping other. The 258 expects rejection, works hard to prevent it and acts like it isn’t important. The 458 fears rejection, hides it as well and can be hypersensitive to small slights. The 8 in both cases keeps these tritypes from showing their sensitivity to rejection. The 2 brings the reference to others and the external world and the 4 brings more a focus on the self and the internal world. The relationship to others is important. The 4 brings a move away with a pull, wanting others to follow. The 258 tentatively moves towards others. The 458 is as individualistic as the 478 but more opinionated and......focused on and indentifies with intellectual pursuits....more sensitive and less people pleasing. 

5-2-8: these Fives take pleasure in helping and directing other people, but in the process can end up imposing their own views in a more or less direct manner. They need to stay in control of their relationships and although they make generous, devoted and fearless friends and partners, others might perceive them as possessive, demanding and domineering. These types tend to intrude on others while at the same time remaining secretive and self-protective themselves, hiding their own needs and problems.
typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
similar tritypes: 5-8-2, 2-5-8
flavours: self-confident, generous, dominating and possessive

5-8-2: these Fives are more focused on and involved with their environments. They’re typically quite imposing and intrusive on others’ lives although they don’t like it when the reverse happens. They are dedicated, courageous, confident and passionate people, sometimes overprotective of their loved ones and having a tendency to dominate and more or less subtly manipulate others into believing as they do. Aiming for a position of power and authority, these Fives have a deep urge to closely control their worlds.
typical subtypes: social, sexual, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
similar tritypes: 5-2-8, 8-5-2
flavours: self-confident, controlling, passionate and brave

2-5-8 captures very well my secretiveness and wariness when around other people, and how I do the usual T ( Thinking ) by showing love through doing things for the loved one.


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## madhatter

259 Problem Solver Archetype

259

If you are a 259, you are caring, knowledgeable and accepting. You want to be helpful, wise and peaceful. You have a very shy, gentle and reserved nature that focuses on what is harmonious. You need companionship and avoid loneliness by focusing on the needs and concerns of others.

Your life mission is to find the information needed to help others manage their difficulties. A true problem solver, you are happiest when you are able to be in the role of a good Samaritan and help others find solutions.

You can be so focused on the helpful information you have collected that you can be too passive and miss opportunities that would allow true presence. You also have great pride in giving to others but not needing them.

your growing edge is to recognize that hesitating too long and being passive to avoid conflict does not keep the peace. true harmony comes from being in attunement with what is essential and in tending to it what is needed and when it is needed.

the 954 is more contemplative and the the 952 will be more focused on others

9s have a great capacity for depth, they just avoid conflict. Introspective 9s with 5 in the tritype are the intellectual 9s.

The two most passive Tritypes are the 259 and the 269. They are both Tritypes that try to avoid conflict and keep the peace. Both are shy and somewhat withdrawn like the 459. But, the 2 brings active helpfulness which is why both of these Tritypes are good Samaritans. The 269 is the most defined by the motivation to help regardless which type is dominant. The 259 is more reserved and helps by problem solving.

925 is one of the helping types. only the 926 is more helpful. This Tritype can be introverted and/or hesitant. When 9 is in charge this Tritype is often good at assessing situations but can have trouble knowing their own preferences and taking actions on their own behalf. Like the 269 the 259 is inclined to more passive than aggressive and can be reluctant to voice their views. They make great behavioral scientists and researchers.

592: Accepting and caring 5. Most gentle, kind-hearted 5. Tends to be passive 6 wing.

[258] What's hard with her is that she inadvertently forces people (even friends) to be very blunt when her services, advice, or even presence is not needed. I guess it's the triple-rejection nature that brings on this. My father is the 952 tritype and this can happen with him as well, only to a lesser degree.

five with a nine fix: pattern seeking above all. whimsical exploration,
disposition of reluctant idealist. open minded,
philosophical perspective. can seem to lack focus
while associating groupings of information into larger
theories. likes people and humanity as a whole,
shares ideas and is relatively easy to get along with.

2-9s - They avoid admitting that they have a (completely) negative image (and avoid anything that may lead to such a state). They're ultimate fear is that they have a completely "black" image and are unable to escape it. They enter a strong state of denial when this occurs. This isn't necessarily because of the Two side, but much rather because the 9 side can't handle such a reality and thus this kind of Two is more likely to withdraw into a more "positive" perspective of themselves. It's much nicer and much more comforting that way.

2-5s - They're schemers at heart. They combine their intellectuality with their emotionality to create sure-fire strategies that are bound to end with them projecting a "positive" image. They learn as much as possible from their environment to understand its rules and regulations, so they can then proceed to accomodate their image to it and therefore "fit in". This was the problem with Alice, as she could not understand her environment, thus her 5-fix had trouble. And because her 5-fix had trouble understanding, then her 2-type could not accomodate to the environment so easily. This led her to become frustrated and upset with her environment for not providing her coherent and consistent rules. The inconsistency of the rules and her natural tendency to accomodate the rules around her is what led her to become confused about her image.

2-5-9 - Because by 5-fix they rely on their experience to provide them with the rules which they can accomodate to, they expect a lot from the environment around them. Thus, this all combines to being incapable of admitting that they're environment has made a mistake (9-fix, it's uncomfortable to know that the thing you are relying on is unreliable. Or that it is impossible to accomodate to your environment, and thus be incapable of producing a "positive" image). For this reasons, 2-5-9s (and actually 2-9s really) have trouble admitting that there's something wrong with their environment, or have trouble blaming their environment for their issues. Logic mandates that if one is uncomfortable with where one is, one should run. And this might be exactly what a 2-9 may do. They may run from where they are to go to a place that they can more easily accomodate to. A problem may arise though when they can't really run from the truth. Running from the environment is in the end admitting that they can't accomodate to the rules of the environment. Thus, if this is something they aren't willing to accept, they may stay and try to learn more about their environment until it makes more coherent sense. In such a situation, as much as they'd like to flee, running is not an option.

9-2s and 5-2s may have somewhat similar issues, but have their main focus be a lot less centered on "fitting in" and more on "calming down" or "finding out".

5-2-9: this is a more generous, social and good-natured Five, who genuinely enjoys helping others out and being in a relationship with them. Although they do require their alone time, Fives of this tritype tend to be more personable and they make wonderful advisors and counselors as long as they can keep behind the scenes. They are rather attracted to human sciences (psychology, sociology) and have a natural flair for moderating conflicts and solving people’s problems.
typical subtypes: social, 5w4
similar tritypes: 5-9-2, 2-5-9
flavours: friendly, understanding, cooperative and humanistic

5-9-2: rather easy-going, modest and amiable, these Fives are usually pleasant to have around because of their friendly nature and deeper understanding of the human needs and frailties. They are less judgemental and critical than other Fives and prefer to focus on the better side of things and people and work on exploring and improving these. They also have a somewhat holistic approach to life’s problems and questions – they tend to prefer the general to the particular and aren’t always very scientifically thorough.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w4
similar tritypes: 5-2-9, 9-5-2
flavours: agreeable, relaxed, friendly and spiritual


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## madhatter

268 – The Rescuer Archetype

6-2-8
Direct and caring 6, can appear 2ish as these 6s need to be caring to feel safe secure.

‎854 and 862 share the self-possessed confidence with solution mastery. The 854 is the artsy and intellectual 8 -- with a secret self-consciousness. The 862 is the champion rescuer, protector with a great need to help-- more duty.

(2)-6-8 - The Reactive 2
2-(6)-8 - The Power-Seeking 6
2-6-(8) - The Compliant 8

This type is characterized by the issues they have with others. They tend to get easily frustrated with others. They want help others but they also want things to go their way. They have a 'let me help you' quality.

268, 682, 826 - The Rescuer: By nature, you want to be in charge of your world and are attracted to the noble cause. You wish to shield others from harm and challenge what is unjust. You want to know the rules to feel safe to break them. Your life mission is to track the needs of the vulnerable and take action on their behalf. A true rescuer, you are happiest when you can use your people skills and desire to protect others to help those that feel alone, desperate and are in a crisis. Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with the pride of knowing how to help others that you may give unsolicited advice or meddle in the affairs of others. You over-give to others to be well-liked, which prevents a deeper connection to your true self. Your growing edge is to recognize that always rescuing others does not mean that you will always be liked and cared for in return, and that it may prevent them from learning how to care for themselves. True protection comes from listening to higher guidance and knowing when to assist others and when to let them learn for themselves.

eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality.

For example, if you were an 8-7-4, you would have secondary strategies that are very different than an 8-2-6. The 8-7-4 is a fast paced creative, feelingful and optimistic Type 8 whereas the 8-2-6 is a more cynical, loyal and helpful Type 8.
the 874 is a fast-paced, optimistic, creative, and emotional type 8 whereas the 826 is a more dutiful, loyal and helpful type 8.

‎269 and 268 are even more distinctively different. Both are helpful but there is nothing passive about the 268. The 269 is the gentle person archetype. The 268 is very take charge and is the true rescuer, EMT, helping the disadvantaged archetype. The 2 is connected to 8 already so if 8 is in the Tritype this Tritype may at first think that they are an 8.

682
Direct and caring 6. This 6 is very supportive. A true Rescuer, this 6 is often mistaken for a 2 or 8. This 6 needs to be caring and protective to feel secure. This 6 is helpful but uncomfortable taking the lead and would rather be the right hand to the powerful person.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnarable, at the mercy of injustice, worthless, needy, unappreciated, and inconsequential.

[682] It is a very dynamic and caring tritype.... the struggle is knowing when the need to rescue interfers with your own well-being

The strongest theme I associate with the 268/682/826 is the need to rescue and protect, but not necessarily put up with problems on an extended basis. It's a kind of in-the-moment problem solving that expects the other to deal with it and move on.

sx/so 268: I will describe this individual as obsessively possessive and domineering, taking on parental roles in most, if not all situations, and the sx/soc simply complete the smother. Most people will find him/her "way too much", like get the hell off me can't you and stop telling me what to do.
For them power is dead important, though it will be more obvious to the observer than to the person him/herself. Both 2 and 6 leads to some issues with denial. 2 main especially will "play innocent" while their power motive is seen by all those who suffered under his/her dominion.
Also all three fixes have a somewhat calculating quality to me. They are definitely not without ulterior motives.
I don't know at all how any specific three types--2/6/8 in this case-- act synergistically. But I do know that each of these at average to lower levels is very controlling in interpersonal relationships, very domineering (including the 6 due to the sx/so), highly reactive, and also explosive when they feel they aren't getting back what they 'deserve'. So my assumption was the obvious: that the synergy would lead to someone controlling to the point of suffocation and high drama.


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## madhatter

269 Good Samaritan Archetype

269, 692, 926 - The Good Samaritan: You like people and want to find ways to engage with them. Your sense of pride comes from getting along with others and being of assistance. You are known for your easygoing and friendly disposition. Your life mission is to identify what is problematic and needed, then find peaceful solutions for those concerned. A true trouble-shooter, you are happiest when you can help others in conflict bridge their differences. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on being a peacemaker, tending to the needs of otehrs and getting along with them that you can fail to voice your own truth and act in a timely manner. You are overly identified with being a 'nice' person. Your growing edge is to recognize that being nice does not always create peace and that being passive does not mean that you are nice. True charity comes from listening to your heart and acting in accordance with what is needed without strings attached even if it causes conflict.

269: The Good Samaritan This tritype is the gentle, supportive type. They are identified with getting along with others and not making waves. They are one of the most passive tritypes and avoid confrontation. They struggle with indecision. They are not identified with their aggression and are passive- aggressive.

The two most passive Tritypes are the 259 and the 269. They are both Tritypes that try to avoid conflict and keep the peace. Both are shy and somewhat withdrawn like the 459. But, the 2 brings active helpfulness which is why both of these Tritypes are good Samaritans. The 269 is the most defined by the motivation to help regardless which type is dominant. The 259 is more reserved and helps by problem solving.

Both the 469 and 269 tend to be passive. The 269 is more engraciating. The 469 is more aloof.

the 629, 692 and 962 are all the nice guy archetype. The 6 in this tritype is phobic most of the time trying to get along with others. This tritype is helpful and one of the good samaritan tritypes. If 6 is dominate there is exaggerated doubt and vascillation. If 9 is dominant there is more going along. The 629 assists or submits and then accepts or backs off. The 692 does the same in reverse order. The 962 is very gentle but can be insecure and uncertain. All 3 are very accepting.

261 and 269 seem like they should be similar but are actually very different types of 2. Both are helpful, dutiful and kindhearted. The 269 is the good samaritan that is very helpful, mellow and passive. They struggle with asserting themselves but work tirelessly for others. The 261 is the true militant 2 that is very 1ish and strident with a focus on being of service. They can think that they are a 1 at first especially with the social instinct.

269 and 268 are even more distinctively different. Both are helpful but there is nothing passive about the 268. The 269 is the gentle person archetype. The 268 is very take charge and is the true rescuer, EMT, helping the disadvantaged archetype. The 2 is connected to 8 already so if 8 is in the Tritype this Tritype may at first think that they are an 8.

925 is one of the helping types. only the 926 is more helpful. This Tritype can be introverted and/or hesitant. When 9 is in charge this Tritype is often good at assessing situations but can have trouble knowing their own preferences and taking actions on their own behalf. Like the 269 the 259 is inclined to more passive than aggressive and can be reluctant to voice their views. They make great behavioral scientists and researchers.

926: Caring and inquisitive 9. Most inclined to be helpful and dutiful. Tends to feel guilt, doubt and anxiety. 6ish.

639 or 629 tritype. Anxious, warm, congenial and phobic.

Watching Jennifer Hudson on Oprah, she seems like a sweet 9; friendly and agreeable with a slight naiveté and slight removed quality in the eyes, like she lives primarily in a dream world with one foot on the earth. Probably the 927 or 926 tritype.

I think that Dr. Drew is the 629 tritype.I am seeing the strength and beauty of sexual 6. He could be social 6. I see him as evasive. He hesitates in all interactions. Noteworthy as action would make good tv. He also never comforts or protects anyone like the 2. I see his fear in his eyes. I see 2s as attuned and/or sticky with others. I see 2 psychiatrists as gushing or at the very least more emotional.

261 and 269 seem like they should be similar but are actually very different types of 2. Both are helpful, dutiful and kindhearted. The 269 is the good samaritan that is very helpful, mellow and passive. They struggle with asserting themselves but work tirelessly for others. The 261 is the true militant 2 that is very 1ish and strident with a focus on being of service. They can think that they are a 1 at first especially with the social instinct.

269 and 268 are even more distinctively different. Both are helpful but there is nothing passive about the 268. The 269 is the gentle person archetype. The 268 is very take charge and is the true rescuer, EMT, helping the disadvantaged archetype. The 2 is connected to 8 already so if 8 is in the Tritype this Tritype may at first think that they are an 8.

Any combination that has a 6 runs anxiety. Any tritype that has self-pres as the dominant instinct is motivated by anxiety. The tritypes that tend to run high anxiety are the 614 and 694... and then 629 and 639.


2-9s - They avoid admitting that they have a (completely) negative image (and avoid anything that may lead to such a state). They're ultimate fear is that they have a completely "black" image and are unable to escape it. They enter a strong state of denial when this occurs. This isn't necessarily because of the Two side, but much rather because the 9 side can't handle such a reality and thus this kind of Two is more likely to withdraw into a more "positive" perspective of themselves. It's much nicer and much more comforting that way.

692
Accepting and caring 6. This is the most gentle and supportive 6. This is the Good Samaritan and can identify with 2. This 6 is conflict avoidant and can struggle with being too passive, submissive and helpful in exchange for safety and security.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, conflict, being loveless, complication, discord, being shutout, inharmonious, being worthless, being needy, unhelpful, unappreciated, immutable, and inconsequential.


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## madhatter

278– The Free Spirit but they also identify with Humanitarian Archetype

827 Caring and innovative 8. Most people-oriented 8. Likes to be in relationship. Gentle and helpful, especially with 9 wing.

278 tritype, that personifies the outgoing, helpful and confident nature of that lively archetype.

(2)-7-8 - The Aggressive 2
2-(7)-8 - The Power-Seeking 7
2-7-(8) - The Positive 8

Very hardy individual and other-focused. Fun, charming, and sexual.

278 is the most enthusiastic, joyful. positive and exuberant tritype. They are people focused and aim to please. They must help like the 126 but are their own authority and follow their own muse like the 478. They are gregarious and funny.

278, 782, 827 - The Free Spirit: You like to use your charming, sunny disposition to create an upbeat, positive, and action-packed environment. You are also very nurturing to those in your circle of care. Your life mission is to be an instrument of change, transforming difficult situations into moments of inspiration. A true free spirit, you are happiest when you are on the go and helping others to learn to act on their own behalf. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on keeping everything positive and honest that you can be too aggressive and fail to recognize the importance of difficult emtions. You also keep busy and in motion to avoid painful feelings. Your growing edge is to recognize that you need to always be postivie, upbeat, and free can limit your ability to self reflect and fully be yourself. True happiness and joy come from being present to your higher self and experiencing all of your emotions.

eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
quality.

87?: Focused, intuitive, and innovative. Most assertive and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric, entrepreneurial 8 especially if sx.

The 827 is extremely positive, upbeat and helpful. They take charge but do so with a light touch that is sensitive to the needs of others. They are often humanitarians that focus on manifesting their vision..... Excess meets gluttony and pride... When the core fears of these three types unite it can create a defense strategy that is quite compassionate but can also struggle with issues of arrogance and/or pride about what they do.

*Most freedom loving-827, 278, 728


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## madhatter

279 Peacemaker Archetype

279

As a nine, I hate conflict. It's unbearbale when someone gives me the silent treatment, is angry or withdraws. Especially if I had a loving friendship before and when it hugely matters to me. I really like to bring things in the open and get things resolved. Talk things through. See where it went wrong. I do this without criticism. Though when somebody has hurt me and things have bottled up for a long time I can be very critical, precise and to the point. That's before a conversation to get things resolved where I couldn't control my outburst. Because it unsettles me and makes me sad. Then I can move forward again. When I try to discuss the situation I keep it light. Do not want to feel pain. I want things to be on the same level and harmonious as before and we do not need to delve deep, no need to dwell on the negatives. And let's forget about it. I will acknowledge my errors and empathise, even when I sometimes know I do this more then I should. I think the above is my 7 tritype. I think 4 is not the other tritype as I do not feel envious. It's not a passion or drive so to speak. Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

Have you ever taken the enneacards test on enneagram.net? It will help you identify your heart center, or at least give you somewhere to start.

From what you've described above I would guess you had 2 in the heart center, with two positive outlook types (2 and 7) and the 9 there is a need to keep things positive, a driving need almost or else it is unbearable. The criticality and bottling up phenomena could be due to the 9 in charge, and the 1 wing, as well as the social subtype who all are prone to a sort of indignant, critical anger.

Here's what Katherine wrote:

If you are a 279, you are caring, innovative and accepting. You want to be helpful, upbeat and peaceful. You are very kind and tend to see the best in others, focusing on easy and comfortable ways of relating. You hate conflict and/or strife and use your sense of humor to smooth out difficulties.

Your life mission is to create and promote smooth and harmonic ways to handle conflict. A true peacemaker, you are happiest when you can ease tension and help others get along with one another.

You can be so identified with keeping life free of conflict and negativity that you may turn a blind eye to conflicts that need to be managed as opportunities for change.

*Most optimistic tritypes-279, 729, 927
279...positive

This tritype [927] is the most identified with seeing themselves as peaceful. More than any other tritype, they need peace and positive relating to experience a sense of being... so are extremely uncomfortable with negativity in relationships. The 479 doesn't like it but expects it. It also brings the 937 tritype which is the true ambassador of goodwill.

If you have the sexual instinct as dominant you could easily identify with 974. The 972 is less ethereal and more focused on being positive. The 974 knows that they feel unhappy, they are more inclined to hide so that they will not be rejected for being negative.

The super positive types 279 and 379, report that they try to get thru grief as quickly as possible, especially if self-pres.

Yes, there is more than one positive Tritype. The super positive Tritypes are the 279, the 379. The 279 is a the Tritype that wants comfortable, easy relating. The 2 brings a greater emphasis on people.This is the 2ish caring, people oriented 7 or 9. The 379 is even more upbeat and positive. The 3 brings more of an emphasis on achievements. For example this is the professional, 3ish 9 or 7.

All of the 79 combinations are somewhat positive. The 279 is focused on being pleasant. The 379 the most positive. The 479 Is positive outwardly but doesn't always feel it.

2-7-9 - The Positivist

Characterized by unbridled optimism. They don't allow anything to get them down, and they love to enjoy themselves by surrounding themselves with great company and fun atmospheres. They may be a bit unrealistic however.

a person could be the 927 or "The Peacemaker" Tritype, and after utilizing the dominant Type 9 strategies the person may move to their lines of connection (Type 3 and Type 7) as well as to their possible wings (Type 1 and Type 8). However, if these connections are not effective for the person, they may move to Type 2 and become more helpful, effusive and relational, and then move subsequently to Type 7 to utilize positive reframing, escapism or future planning in order to achieve desirable results.

From what you've described above I would guess you had 2 in the heart center, with two positive outlook types (2 and 7) and the 9 there is a need to keep things positive, a driving need almost or else it is unbearable. The criticality and bottling up phenomena could be due to the 9 in charge, and the 1 wing, as well as the social subtype who all are prone to a sort of indignant, critical anger.

Trying to keep a positive outlook at all times. (9-2-7)

2-9s - They avoid admitting that they have a (completely) negative image (and avoid anything that may lead to such a state). They're ultimate fear is that they have a completely "black" image and are unable to escape it. They enter a strong state of denial when this occurs. This isn't necessarily because of the Two side, but much rather because the 9 side can't handle such a reality and thus this kind of Two is more likely to withdraw into a more "positive" perspective of themselves. It's much nicer and much more comforting that way.


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## madhatter

358 – The Solution Master Archetype

The 135, 358, and 359 tritypes are naturally inclined to be tenacious and persistent.

The 835 is the ambitious, tenacious, opinionated, tough minded, hard nosed, foundation building, mental giant that is in denial of and minimizing of their more tender emotions.

835, 358, 538

If you are a 358, you are ambitious, knowledgeable and protective. You want to be efficient, wise and straight-forward. Tough-minded, you are good at studying a problem and finding both original and practical solutions others miss. Highly tenacious, you work tirelessly until you find solutions and prevail against adversity.	

Your life mission is to use your cleverness and astute powers of observation to serve the greater good. A true problem solver, you are happiest when you can evaluate what is needed and take action to create change.	

You can be so focused on your goals and ideas that you become an opinionated, hardnosed thinker that are in denial of your feelings. You can feel so vulnerable that you refuse to let in the importance and wisdom of your painful emotions.

835: Focused and knowledgeable 8. Most scholarly 8, especially if introverted. Most impersonal 8, especially if self-preserving.

(3)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 3
3-(5)-8 - The Aggressive 5
3-5-(8) - The Competent 8

Extreme narcissism. They believe that they are better than everyone else, and that they can handle anything that comes at them. They feel as though they are capable of anything and have ambitious plans.

5-8-3: Most measured and goal-oriented Five.
(I would have phrased it as “results-oriented.”)

five with an eight fix: least intellectual, though perhaps the most mentally
intense. unsettled by occasional fits of temper,
sudden outbursts. affixed to notions of power;
attitude of resigned realist. quietly guarded and
insistent, may put others ill at ease.

eight with a three fix: the notably success oriented, prominence seeking eight. utilizes
image and manipulation to advance their career or enterprise.
business achievement can lead to political aspirations.

I'm 835. Low sensitivity? Yeah. I don't pick up on interpersonal subtleties well or acknowledge soft emotions in others, esp. at work. I need to see clear expressions of hurt to know that I'm being too forceful. And by then, I've already run the person down.

Truth and Justice? Big time. Society could never give me justice if my line has been crossed. I've got to seek it out for myself.

The 835, 358 and 538 tritypes struggle with sensitivity the most

I can see parts of myself in your description from the standpoint of Tritype 538. 
My core type is a 5 social illiterate who feels that he cannot effectively participate in society, on this alien planet, without first mastering the language... of human social interaction. Once a certain level of mastery is attained, the compensatory social presentation is 3ish in flavor. 8 represents my ace-in-the-hole when the going gets tough.

All 5s report that they felt that they missed the handbook that explained how to read and understand social signals when they were young. On another note, the 538 is more authentic due to the 8.

Just saw 'The Social Network' and Mark Z. is played as a Social 538 Tritype. Very tough, unemotional, brilliant mind, and Social instinct totally out of control. The character wants social status over personal connection or money

The 4-5-8 is the most direct and blunt of all the tritypes, with the exception of perhaps 3-5-8. 

8-3-5 is the most direct combination. 

If 583 is your tritype then you probably have an air self-confidence hiding your nerdiness. 

5-3-8: more ambitious, competitive and assertive than others, these Fives stand out through their leadership abilities. They are rather good at managing people and know how to employ their powers and competencies in order to obtain an effective result. Pragmatic, goal-oriented and driven, but also a tad arrogant and egotistical, they know how to influence a situation to their advantage. And yet, although they are proficient in authority positions, others can find them quite unsympathetic and self-interested, with very little interest in people who cannot be of clear use to them.
typical subtypes: social, sexual, balanced wings
similar tritypes: 5-8-3, 3-5-8, 8-5-3
flavours: self-confident, pragmatic, hard-working and narcissistic

5-8-3: a more ambitious, materialistic and dominant Five, who has a talent for leadership and a desire for achievement. More competitive and assertive than others, these Fives manage to get out of their shells more often to experience life in a more direct manner and obtain a position of power and success. Although still reserved and secretive, they exude a certain amount of self-confidence and strength which prevents their true vulnerabilities from being guessed by others (a huge fear of this tritype).
typical subtypes: social, self-preserving, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
similar tritypes: 5-3-8, 8-5-3
flavours: poised, ambitious, domineering and territorial


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## madhatter

359 Thinker Archetype

359
intellectual and clever, you find amiable and pleasant ways to manage difficult situations and relationships. often shy, you are slow to fully trust others and need time to more fully reveal yourself.

your life mission is to use your ability to unite opposing points of view, find compromise and create workable solutions. a true advocate (also, thinker), you are happiest when you can use your skills to be helpful and judicial.

your blind spot is that you can be so reserved that your true nature remains hidden and underexpressed which can cause you to appear aloof and indifferent. to feel in control, you may use withholding and punishment.

your growing edge is to recognize that your need to pull away and be a spectator before engaging denies you the opportunity to more fully be. true wisdom comes from following your higher guidance, revealing yourself to others and participating in life.

The 135, 358, and 359 tritypes are naturally inclined to be tenacious and persistent.
I'd say that I show persistence in regard to goals and ideas, pursuing them until I'm satisfied I've learned all I can from a particular pursuit (3) or avenue of inquiry (5). And with people as well: I tend never to give up on people. I tend to avoid conflict and wait (often passively) for the other person to "come around." (9)
359s are very incognito for the most part....but the 3 wants the attention even if the 5 and 9 are reluctant.. It is an interesting dichotomy.

The 3,5 and 9 all conceal who they are in favor of who they think they need to be. 3 adapts to their environment to give us their best image, the 5 wants camouflage to hide detection to feel safe and the 9 wants to match their environment and go along to get along. The 359 needs to adjust to avoid detection and scrutiny.

the 359 is private and introspective and often pairs with a more assertive outgoing type like the 1 or 8.

I have to laugh as the 359s may not want to respond. They have reported a strong sensitivity to exposure.
I think 3-5-9 may expose him or her self if it is done say in one's writing in the name of academic or theological inspiration to others. We might describe our Dark Nights; however, immediately rush ahead to the good part where we overcame the darkness with our keen and wise mind and all is hunky dory now.

Calling all 359s... do you notice the need to conceal your true feelings from others?
I feel the need to conceal my true feelings from myself.
I smile when I read this. It is amazing to me that other 359s have something very similar. I need to add that 359s have a great sense of humor that is dry and witty.
The above is actually a true statement. I really have a difficult time with feelings. I feel things like enthusiasm, bursts of love and insight, and discomfort. There is a person in my life that makes me feel really upset. Instead of sadness or anger; whenever she comes around I get a migraine...
Do we have feelings?
Yes... or so I am told, tucked away in separate locked boxes.

The 935, or 539 is a very mediating tritype, this is the person who wants to mediate conflict amongst people in a detached way, less inclined to be fluid and artistic but is rather personable and detached. You can get kind of a robotic feel much like the 531.

359 Tritype is very hidden.

935 tritype: calm, composed, professional and slightly hidden

The sx 359 is as you describe...It is the shy 3 that is more covert and internal but still has a great need to be seen and admired for achievements... and focuses on being the ideal image of femininity (or masculinity).

(3)-5-9 - The Withdrawn 3
3-(5)-9 - The Normative 5
3-5-(9) - The Competent 9

This tritype is a dreamer of sorts, but also somewhat intellectual. They have many ideas of what they would like to happen in their life, and may construct plans to accomplish it, but an isolationist.

Another example; if someone is a 3, they may have a tritype of 3-5-9. This means that once the 3 has exhausted their main type strategies (image maintenance, solution orientation, efficiency, self promotion, etc) they will move to the head center and utilize the strategies of the 5 (cerebral reflection, theorizing, withdrawal, and avarice, etc.) in order to gain the results they need. If 5 strategies don’t work they may move to the strategies of the 9 (placating, merging, passive aggression, etc). It has been my experience that the tritype seems to play itself out most obviously in relationship with others..

Another 9 may have the 935 or "The Thinker" Tritype that will present very differently according to Fauvre. The 935 will utilize the Type 9 strategy as dominant, but after exhausting wings and lines of connection will move to Type 3 and become more expedient, professional or image focused, and then to Type 5 and become more cerebral, remote and concealed. This Tritype combination will seem significantly different than the 927.

A 9-5-3 would be the kind of 9 who is more intellectual (5), perfectionistic and focused on efficiency (3) with less of an emphasis on maintaining harmonious relationships than other 9s.

5-9-3: Most success-oriented Five. Needs prestige, especially if SOC.

five with a nine fix: pattern seeking above all. whimsical exploration,
disposition of reluctant idealist. open minded,
philosophical perspective. can seem to lack focus
while associating groupings of information into larger
theories. likes people and humanity as a whole,
shares ideas and is relatively easy to get along with.

5-3-9: these Fives might strike others as rather pleasant and cooperative persons, but they are usually more ambitious and purposeful than they let on. They are goal-oriented individualists who dream of achieving an impressive and long-lasting success in their field – they secretly desire becoming famous and leaving their mark on the world. These Fives are also more dependent on outer validation than others – they care more about their image and the way others perceive and react to them, therefore they might seem a little more conventional and mainstream in their behavior.
typical subtypes: social, self-preserving, balanced wings
similar tritypes: 5-9-3, 9-5-3
flavours: cunning, congenial, goal-oriented and flexible

5-9-3: these Fives are naturally diplomatic, peaceful and somewhat charismatic. They care about harmony and balance and are a bit anxious of people’s rejection and disapproval. Very sentient and tactful, they know how to reach their objectives without causing much fuss around them – they go with the flow and adapt to people and situations in a facile manner. They’re the type of people that others don’t see coming, skillfully speculating opportunities to their advantage while keeping a low profile.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w6
similar tritypes: 5-3-9, 9-5-3
flavours: tactful, well-mannered, collected and adaptable


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## madhatter

368 – The Justice Fighter and is a Debater Archetype

I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.

The sx 683 is a very dynamic 6. This tritype has consistently reported being predominantly counter-phobic. A true fighter this tritype goes the distance for others. This tritype with 6 dominant is very loyal, feisty and achievement oriented.

(3)-6-8 - The Reactive 3
3-(6)-8 - The Aggressive 6
3-6-(8) - The Normative 8

Characterized by confrontation. Immovably disagreeable. They stay firm in their direction and beliefs and won't let anyone but themselves change that.

For some, it depends what type you put first. For example :
6-83 : Debator
8-63 : Justice fighter
3-68 : Some sort of image concious justice preacher

368, 683, 836 - The Justice Fighter - Verbally adept and a good reader of people and situations, you have the ability to identify unjust authority, rebel against tyranny and verbally spar against it. Your life mission is to challenge what is unfair and protect the innocent. A true justice fighter, you are happiest when you can use your protective energy and debating skills in service of others or a cause. Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with challenging what you perceive as unfair that you become overbearing, confrontational, anti-authoritarian, and indifferent to the wisdom of emotional intelligence and your tender emotions. Your growing edge is to recognize that your need to challenge and oppose can keep you from knowing who you are or what you feel. True protection comes from being in alignment with your higher self and knowing when to intervene and when to allow events to unfold.

eight with a three fix: the notably success oriented, prominence seeking eight. utilizes
image and manipulation to advance their career or enterprise.
business achievement can lead to political aspirations.

If you examine this by tritype, you will find that we identify with this definition in a specific way. For example, as a sexual 874, I like to do my thing and execute what interests me and will push myself for my intimates... but I do not like to prepare and perform. The 873 would feel more comfortable performing, the 863 preparing and so on.

683
Direct and focused 6. This 6 can appear 3ish or 8ish. This is the Justice Fighter, 6. The 6s are good achievers and debaters. They are the most confrontational 6. They are usually the CP6 and make good Trial Attorneys.
The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnarable, at the mercy of injustice, failure, being incapable or unable to do, inefficient, second best, and unmasked.

The 368 is very dynamic. This is the toughest fighter on the Enneagram. They focus on justice and are quick to react and seek the advantage in the service of justice. The 6 with this tritype identifies with type 8 and is counter-phobic.

The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust.


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## madhatter

369 Mediator Archetype

369

She said this is the type most likely to be able to be the chameleon and will be able to adjust themselves according to whomever they are around. Having the 3 relating types and the 3 primary types they can have the most difficulty pinpointing not only their tritype but their dominant strategy. She said they will almost always think they are 3s, because they will value success and will be inclined to adjust to fit a given situation. She said they need to stay engaged and have harmony to feel happy which is what causes the constant adjustment.

They are most likely to fit into the cultural millieu of what is expected of them but that their life mission is to bring harmony and she calls this the true mediator archetype. She said they can be so focused on fitting in and belonging that they lose themeselves and forget to speak their personal truths for fear of not relating to others.

The 369 needs to adjust to feel seen, safe and peaceful.

You have all three Bonders Enneacards
(Enneagram Types: 3, 6 & 9) in your Enneaspread.
Your emotional energy goes towards seeking attachments with ideas and others. You want to be bonded to people. You also want to create balance and are uncomfortable with extremes. You tend to see relationships as a part of yourself. Overall, you are positively identified with others and may have amnesia for the more difficult or negative aspects of your relationships.

I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.

639 or 629 tritype. Anxious, warm, congenial and phobic.

Any combination that has a 6 runs anxiety. Any tritype that has self-pres as the dominant instinct is motivated by anxiety. The tritypes that tend to run high anxiety are the 614 and 694... and then 629 and 639.

3-6-9 - The Citizen

This tritype would be most characterized by being influenced by their society. They usually embody everything that their society is. They need to adapt in order to relieve tension and stress.

-Primary types(3, 6, 9), I don't think the order is even significant, or it can fluctuate, because what defines them is their relation to their core center

[by timeless:] You'll hear that 3-6-9 is the most common tritype. I believe that this is true, but this is no quirk of the enneagram, nor is it random chance.

You'll notice that 3, 6, and 9 are id, superego, and ego types. The Type 3 element is constantly seeking to improve themselves, the Type 6 element is constantly seeking to improve their superego, and Type 9 is constantly seeking to mediate themselves. In a way, this is the healthiest tritype in Freudian terms.

This explains why 3-6-9 is the most common tritype: this is probably the optimal path of development.

[by Grey:]The 3-6-9 triangle has to do with the fact that they all line up together in their integration/disintegration lines, creating an endless triangle 

the 3 and the 9 were total opposites of one another (external cultivation vs internal), and the 6 really was somewhere in the middle.

3-6-9 Triple attachment type

The attachment types (3-6-9) are most comfortable between the norming and performing phases, when everything's going smoothly and people know what's going on.

Those with the 3-6-9 tritype, especially 9s have a considerable amount of confusion around their identities. Type 9 is already the seeker, but 3 and 6 add more elements around the feeling of lacking a clearly defined identity.

639
The Mediator. Accepting and focused 6. This 6 seeks security by avoiding conflict and fitting in, Depending on the situation, this 6 is accommodating or professional. This 6 is most inclined to bounce between 3-6-9. This 6 avoids trouble and is more obedient and less rebellious.

The core fears are of failure, being incapable, unable to do, inefficient, second best, unmasked, fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, targeted, chaos, fully embodied, not existing, conflict, being loveless, complication, discord, shutout, disharmony


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## madhatter

378 – The Mover & Shaker Archetype

The 837 is the slick, expansive, powerhouse, 'can do' person that sees the big picture but avoids feelings, seeing them as speed bumps that get in the way of manifesting and making things happen.

*Most assertive tritype-378, 873, 783

378,837,738 If you are the 378, you are ambitious, innovative and protective. You want to be efficient, happy and straight-forward. You are a dynamic go-getter, focused on the prize. An expansive powerhouse, you see the big picture and a positive future with the will to make it happen. Seeking success, obstacles are seen as competitive challenges. Your life mission is to see what is possible and find innovative ways to achieve your goals. A true mover and shaker, you are happiest when you are in a position of power to manifest your vision and make things happen. You need to be doing to feel alive.	You can be so expeditious, assertive and results oriented that you miss your impact on others and the deeper meaning and significance of why you are doing what you are doing.

387...assertives

You have all three Expansive Solution Enneacards (3, 7 & 8)
Naturally forward and expansive, you see yourself as assertive, self-motivated, expeditious and results oriented. Focused on action, you resist being controlled and letting your feelings get in the way of achieving your goals. When opposed, you react immediately and when necessary are not afraid to move against others to manage problems.

the sexual 378 is triple assertive and has the added jolt of the high intensity sexual energy. 378 is self assured, innovative and bold, there will be more of a focus on being strong and attractive compared to other instincts. The 379 is a bit softer and more adept at softening their presentation. We always refer to the 379 is the "cool guy" or "cool girl" tritype as they want to be trendy and cool but also blend. The 378 may be more outlandish so pays less attention to being cool and more attention to being the trailblazer.
Well if you lead with the 7 instead of 3 you will be less concerned with image and be less likely to track what others want you to be as the 7 is more concerned with following their own muse. However with the sexual subtype in charge both the 378 and the 738 will want to be alluring to potential intimates and mates and have a desire to find a mate who can handle their triple assertive energy.

a 379 would be a more reflective and considerate but also more indecisive and chameleon-like (and somewhat more withdrawn, at times) version of a 378.

And 379/793 would differ from the 378 in that 379 would be more diplomatic and conflict-avoidant than the 378.

3-7-8 - The Extrovert

This type is very outward focused. They must keep themselves involved with the external world in order to be relieve of stress and tension. Being alone and inactive causes anxiety.

eight with a three fix: the notably success oriented, prominence seeking eight. utilizes
image and manipulation to advance their career or enterprise.
business achievement can lead to political aspirations.

783: Direct and focused 7. Most assertive 7. Are usually movers and shakers and rainbow makers. Professional 7.

837: Focused and innovative. Most assertive 8. Mover and shaker, especially if extroverted and/or soc. subtype. Entrepreneurs.

87?: Focused, intuitive, and innovative. Most assertive and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric, entrepreneurial 8 especially if sx.

Both Tritypes are Movers and Shakers. They both want to win and have power but in a different way. The 387 is focused on achieving success, especially success in the eyes of others. The attention goes to identifying the role needed to make the achievements that are viewed as successful. With success comes power. The 837 is more focused on overcoming obstacles and succeeding in spite of the obstacles...they never give up. The 837 is less focused on the role and more focused on the position of power. With power comes success. The 837 wants to be seen as successful but wants autonomy more and are not dependent on other's view of them.
With the 738 the focus moves to the heat and the creative, vision, future ideal, what is possible and entertaining ways to succeed in a big way. They imagine, produce and manifest.


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## madhatter

379 Ambassador Archetype

379, 739, 937 - The Ambassador: You like people and are outgoing, even if you are a bit shy. You are easygoing and seek comfort but strive for success and a feeling of personal importance. You are identified with what you do and achieve, but are soft, gentle, and kind. Your life mission is to find compassionate and effective ways to create change and bridge differences. A true ambassador of good will, you are happiest when you can help others become harmonious, build rapport, and develop their potential. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on what is positive that you can miss the wisdom that comes from experiencing and understanding negative emotions and end up creating conflict by avoiding it. Your growing edge is to recognize that your need ot keep the peace at all costs and be what others want you to be to feel successful keeps you from knowing yourself. True self-awareness comes from listening to your higher self and being fully present in the moment.

This tritype [927] is the most identified with seeing themselves as peaceful. More than any other tritype, they need peace and positive relating to experience a sense of being... so are extremely uncomfortable with negativity in relationships. The 479 doesn't like it but expects it. It also brings the 937 tritype which is the true ambassador of goodwill.

The super positive types 279 and 379, report that they try to get thru grief as quickly as possible, especially if self-pres.

Yes, there is more than one positive Tritype. The super positive Tritypes are the 279, the 379. The 279 is a the Tritype that wants comfortable, easy relating. The 2 brings a greater emphasis on people.This is the 2ish caring, people oriented 7 or 9. The 379 is even more upbeat and positive. The 3 brings more of an emphasis on achievements. For example this is the professional, 3ish 9 or 7.

All of the 79 combinations are somewhat positive. The 279 is focused on being pleasant. The 379 the most positive. The 479 Is positive outwardly but doesn't always feel it.

Calling all 379s. You all report the need to be upbeat, positive and easygoing...but you want to make a difference and be a part of something meaningful. You are all embracing and look for the good in people and the gold and the end of the rainbow. You are good at mediating problems but prefer to avoid negativity and negative situations. Most say that they see the glass have full. In your search for happiness you can turn a blind eye to problems.

Calling all 379s. One Enneagram friend with the 379 Tritype said that she was a rainbow person. I liked this term as all of the 379s report that it feels uncomfortable to be negative. This Tritype that feels it is important to be upbeat. One 379 said down feelings and negativity feel like acid rain. Another said she is solar powered and needed the energy from the sun and positive encounters.

479 and 379 I have deemed the "cool guy" tritypes. When 4 is there you get that sort of archetype of the cool artist, laid back, playful, witty, but with a sort of "hidden sorrow". You sense there is more there but that they are keeping you at bay in order to avoid dipping too much into the swamp.

If you knew just how off-base the names 'Healer' and 'Gentle Spirit' are for the 9-4-7 tritype, and how slanted the name 'Ambassador' is for the 9-3-7 (or as you imply 9-4-7 with a very heavy Three wing), how pronounced the narcissistism and exhibitionism of these two tritypes can be, you might perhaps not be so eager to identify with them. Also, the challenge to feel grounded in the physical world, or at least in one's own physicality, is part of the Nine itself, not to mention the Four.

the sexual 378 is triple assertive and has the added jolt of the high intensity sexual energy. 378 is self assured, innovative and bold, there will be more of a focus on being strong and attractive compared to other instincts. The 379 is a bit softer and more adept at softening their presentation. We always refer to the 379 is the "cool guy" or "cool girl" tritype as they want to be trendy and cool but also blend. The 378 may be more outlandish so pays less attention to being cool and more attention to being the trailblazer.
Well if you lead with the 7 instead of 3 you will be less concerned with image and be less likely to track what others want you to be as the 7 is more concerned with following their own muse.

a 379 would be a more reflective and considerate but also more indecisive and chameleon-like (and somewhat more withdrawn, at times) version of a 378.

793

This is the positive motivator, someone who wants to administer positive, practical solutions to help others to reach their goals.

"The Ambassador" archetype. This is the person that needs to be on the go (3 and 7 coming together) and helping others to find common ground while still reaching their personal goals and staying busy....

More conflict avoidant, although with 7 in charge and an 8 wing there might be a tendency to be a bit more abrasive or sharkish in their approach (particularly if self preservation), but ultimately they will need to "get away from negativity".

Comfort seeking but needs measures of success and luxury.
　
I'm thinking conflicts will either be avoided entirely or dealt with very quietly and quickly, then brushed under the rug.
　
7-9-3 would be optimistic and omnivorous, with a strong aversion to conflict. Joie de Vivre, but without the drama. I can also see someone of this tritype being able to distract themselves from setbacks, or compartmentalize them. Harmony is important.

a 793/379 would share some similarities with 479, as far as bringing people together and being positive goes, but would have a more practical, action-oriented focus than the 479. And 379/793 would differ from the 378 in that 379 would be more diplomatic and conflict-avoidant than the 378.

(3)-7-9 - The Positive 3
3-(7)-9 - The Normative 7
3-7-(9) - The Aggressive 9

This type somewhat of a gung-ho optimist. They are great at getting along with people, and often a lot of fun to be around. Also a bit of dreamer.

Negativity is horrid, I'd say my 3-7-9 combo has an optimistic view on self, ability, others’ intentions, the future and life in general even when I've been stupidly and majorly depressed the sun was still shining out my[blocked due to guideline #4 violation]with optimistic rays! I cannot fathom people who like misery.

I would say that 7-9-3 would be optimistic and omnivorous, with a strong aversion to conflict. I can also see someone of this tritype being able to distract themselves from setbacks, or compartmentalize them. Harmony is important.

a bright, cheery, happy, friendly 739 is the epitome of a fair weather friend. As long as you're fun and happy she's in. But god forbid you should want to discuss something painful or dark. Or NEED something.

7-3-9 (and to some extent 7-4-9) the "cool guy" tritype, in that these people tend to have this air of being very cool about them, people seem to gravitate to them, as they tend to easily embody the archetype of being cool and metropolitan while still being laid back and "chill".


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## madhatter

458 – The Scholar Archetype 

The 845 is the somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness.

*Darkest tritype-458, 854, 584 (particularly when 4 or 5 are in charge)

Also if you are still considering 548 (or 845): she said this is the the most intense type, particularly if sexual. Intuitive, knowledgeable and direct. This is the type that really craves knowing what makes people tick and builds what she calls mental or internal maps that are quite astute as to what makes people do what they do. This tends to be the darkest of the tritypes because of the intensity of the 3 types (particularly if 4 or 5 is in charge). David said there is a propensity toward the grotesque, anatomical or intensely esoteric. This is the "true scholar" and the life mission is to disseminate what information is found. The blind spot is this has 3 types that can be prone to arrogance and the attachment to the internal map of what they've found can make them blind to new information as it comes in. So there will be a tendency to become fixed in their worldview or ideas particularly about people and not take in new information. So while the map is quite extraordinary that they've painted they may miss a whole region and thus not have the full picture. This is also the most cynical and the tendency to be so overly opinionated can make people turn off to their wisdom. She said when 8 is in charge there is a bit more compassion, and with an integrated 5 or 4 in charge you get a gifted spiritual teacher (Russ Hudson for example)
An intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and to find the hidden meaning in all things.

874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.

‎854 and 862 share the self-possessed confidence with solution mastery. The 854 is the artsy and intellectual 8 -- with a secret self-consciousness. The 862 is the champion rescuer, protector with a great need to help-- more duty.

the 468 is a true challenger and truth teller. The 4 may be shy but this Tritype is very intense and reactive--quick to speak their mind. The 485 is the true intellectual that has strong opinions about their feelings and thoughts but less reactivity. Sexual instinct with 4 dominant makes both tritypes more intense. The 468, however, is more dutiful and feisty whereas the 458 is one of the tritypes that lives in their head researching and following their own muse.

‎846 vs 845. These two tritypes are very different. Both take charge and seek solutions. The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust. The 845 is more introverted and introspective. The 854 has 5 as a line of connection as well as in the tritype and makes this 8 more scholarly and focused on depth.

(4)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 4
4-(5)-8 - The Reactive 5
4-5-(8) - The Withdrawn 8

Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them.

5-8-4: Most Intense Five. Needs creativity. Can be moody and melancholy.

458 is the most tough-minded and opinionated 4.

458 - Knowledgeable and direct 4. Most analytical 4. Craves knowing what makes people tick. Stronger Opinions.

845: Intuitive and knowledgeable 8. Most withdrawn 8, specially if introverted, 9 wing and/or sp.

The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468.

five with an eight fix: least intellectual, though perhaps the most mentally intense. unsettled by occasional fits of temper, sudden outbursts. affixed to notions of power; attitude of resigned realist. quietly guarded and insistent, may put others ill at ease.

eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
and circumstances.

The 458 is more openly emotional and expressive. The 548 is more mental and reserved...like the difference between 4 and 5. Both are intuitive thinkers and tend to be introverted. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. Others are always surprised when the 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet.

A couple of distinctions...The 458 is more emotionally expressive than the 548. The content can be very different. The 458 is more inclined to talk about their feelings about a subject of interest whereas the 548 will be more reserved and speak about tinteresting facts about a subject. The energy of the 458 is focused on the analysis of their feelings first whereas the 548 is focused on the analysis of the information first.

Social increases the need to have the critical information needed to be interesting to others-- to be wise and in the know. Sp increases the focus on the the basics... the resources one must expend to have the information.What will the cost be? All 6 variations of the 458 will avoid being ignorant and speak up for what they believe in. For example, in contrast, the sp548 will be far more reluctant to speak than the sx845 but both fear being inadequate, incompetent and powerless.

The 4-5-8 is the most direct and blunt of all the tritypes, with the exception of perhaps 3-5-8

874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.

seeing your place as in the shadows is exactly how the 458 describes themselves. The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities.

the 548 tritype is the 5 most likely to appear 4-ish.

I think that 458 tritype could be mis-typed as 5, but this is much less likely than a 548 being mis-typed as a 4. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core.

out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.

The 485 is an intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and find the hidden meaning in all things.

The 845 is more introverted intuition with the attention going inward. It can be darker and is more cynical.

(EIDB 548 tritype discussion thread: The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - 5 4 8 Tritype ):

[Intense, especially with sx first. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Most 4ish 5, especially with four wing. Tough-minded, analytical 4 that is staunchly individualistic. Withdrawn, sensitive, creative 8. "Scholar" archetype if I remember correctly. Wants to know what makes people tick.

Actually, I think this 5 would be more fantasy oriented than information oriented. This would be the dreamy 5.

What I was criticising was the implication that the unique view a 5-4-8 creates is a monolithic system which doesn't change or adjust due to presumably stasis or narcissism or an inability to take criticism. Dynamism, flux and big intellectual shifts are much more likely.
While a 5-4-8 is likely to be an intellectual narcissist, I think any criticism that they are unable to change or adjust their view is the opposite of the case because there is an intense self-criticism as well. Change and flux are constant.

first, because 5-4-8's are unlikely to think in systems (which you've now agreed with), and second, because of their sensitivity to inconsistency, constant self-criticism and tendency to change positions.
I think there is an element of truth in the description though, in that 5-4-8's can be wilfully perverse and too arrogant to accept criticism from others. But they are likely to outwardly repudiate that criticism, and then later modify their views accordingly rather than stubbornly retain their original position.

My experience of this type is of course my only experience of any kind, so hard to be 'objective'. But here goes. I find it a complex, contradictory and often perplexing type to be. The 3 numbers pull against each other, and there is no social element(3, 6, or 9) to smooth the way. This is exacerbated if you have SO as your last stacking. Although all generalisations are suspect (including this one), it is particularly hard to generalise about this tritype. This tritype seems peculiarly subject to flux, and thus can vary greatly, or have many different real selves.
However, dark, eccentric, creative, cynical, sensitive, scholarly are not wide of the mark (although tend to create a caricature if taken too seriously). It's true that we tend to be intensely interested in the psychology of other people, if only because we are at an utter loss to figure out ourselves much of the time. In a way, we are natural scholars but too scholarly, polymathic and restless for universities these days, which reward the careerist specialist.
5-4-8's are subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. One wants to know, in a totalizing and essential fashion, know poetically but know precisely as well, but never quite gets there.

We are paradox-mongers, live in metaphor, and are always trying to find new ways to say and see things (and hence are often pretentious) - i.e. iconoclasts - but can be as pedantic, systematic and anally analytical as anyone - i.e. using our 5-ness to beat others at their own games when they have underestimated us as loose, kooky or not with it.
5-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.

I would caution against such a romanticized view of this tritype as it may defeat the value of knowing one’s type. I would disagree with a lot of the first things you said about this combination – “many real selves” and “subject to flux”. I find a kind of coherency in that here you’ve got two reactive types (4,8) two rejection (5,8) two withdrawn (4,5) and three very independent, very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. The greatest fluctuation I feel is between feeling incredibly hard and strong to being very self-conscious and inept. Strong and Vulnerable are my two modes, brought out when I feel I am unable to make that leap across the fragments of words and space between myself and someone I have an interest in.

I believe Nietzsche and Gurdjieff were of this tritype, though G may have had 7 instead of 5, but Katherine Fauvre very much agreed with me when I said there was something “Hermetic” about this tri-type. There is a kind of de-construction of present systems and a reconstruction into something that subverts previously-held notions. I like to think of myself as an “ontological terrorist”. Nietzsche is a beautiful illustration of what I see as the gift of this tritype – of staring past the fragility in the conceptions humans, as living and rational beings, hope to cling to and look into something “under”, to poke around in [blocked due to guideline #4 violation], and reveal the beauty within it. Hades operates under a kind of 854 archetypal pattern. There’s the destructive power and energy to produce an impact of 8, along with the “ground-up” construction and innovation of 5 with the creativity and will to rebirth of 4. Of course, that’s only there in the best examples of this tritype, a call the rest of us can only hope to live up to.

There are of course coherent factors - otherwise there wouldn't be a category. However, I still feel that the concept of change over time is very important to 548. I guess this is what I mean by different selves - the many different selves over one's life (which is also true of everyone). That is, think of Heraclitus's saw - you cannot step into the same river twice. Not just because the river has changed, but because you are - that minute to minute one's self is mutating, adapting, contradicting itself. This does not necessarily have to defeat the concept of a core coherent self, but certainly challenges it.

I disagree with your point that 548s are not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. While these three values are pretty hard to attain, and difficult to define, they are pretty important to me, at least some of the time - and especially in any discrete intellectual task I want to complete.

I think our tritype is especially gifted with calling it’s fundamental beliefs into constant question. You’ve got 4’s emphasis on self-creation and thus change, the 5’s emphasis on clear perception, innovation, curiosity, and the 8 that confronts and challenges. There is always a readiness to undermine ourselves with an aim at change, but shows us what crap each construct we hold at every stage of growth really is and there is always the correct suspicion that whatever construct we hold in the present is simply a construction.]

5-4-8: more reactive and temperamental, such Fives find it harder to control their emotions than other tritypes. They are basically sensitive, reclusive and ingenious, occasionally indulging in (romantic) day-dreams and fantasies, but once in a while their fierce, visceral side reveals itself explosively and gets to surprise people who don’t know them well. These Fives are usually selfish and whimsical, considering themselves entitled to special treatment which they will sometimes claim aggressively. They are prone to mood swings and rage outbursts.
typical subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 5w4
similar tritypes: 5-8-4, 4-5-8
flavours: innovative, temperamental, egocentric and intense

5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary.
typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4
flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive


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## madhatter

459 The Contemplative Archetype

459

If you are 459 is described as being intuitive, knowledgeable, an accepting. You want to be original, wise and peaceful. Highly self aware and reflective, you are very shy, reserved and self conscious. You need regular quiet time to reflect on your thoughts and emotions. Easily flooded with emotion, it is difficult for you to voice your feelings and ideas to others.

Your life mission is to delve deeply into the mysteries of life and share your insight with others. A true philosopher (also, contemplative), you are happiest when you can write about your discoveries and discuss them with others. Making sense of your world is a never ending quest.

You can be so focused on your inner world that you can become inhibited and appear to be indifferent to others. Insecure, you become moody and expect others to initiate and come toward you.

your growing edge is to recognize that your need to pull away into the private world of your making to ponder your thoughts and feelings keeps you from engaging with others. true contemplation leads to higher knowing that we are all connected in the universal unconscious.

*Most withdrawn/introspective-459, 954, 549

The 416, 459 and 469 all struggle with painful self-consciousness and inhibition.

Both the 451 and 459 are reserved and introspective and self conscious. The 451 is very critical of themselves and others.They are very particular and have a lot of shoulds. They can be strident. Dissatisfaction is visible as their energy can be prickly. The 459 is more reserved and passive. They wait to be included. They are approachable but hope that others will come towards them. They are quiet in their demeanor. They project a sense of stillness. Their energy is soft and yielding. Dissatisfaction is hidden like in the 479.

The 954 is more contemplative and the the 952 will be more focused on others.

9s have a great capacity for depth, they just avoid conflict. Introspective 9s with 5 in the tritype are the intellectual 9s. (9s with 4 are the deep, emotional 9s. The 9 with the 459 tritype is all of the above.

The 459 is the most reclusive type on the Enneagram. They are humble, modest and discreet. They can be ethereal and dreamy They are passive and unassertive. They are shy but usually display a pleasant countenance. They have complex inner worlds. the objective with the subjective. They are gentle, sensitive and avoidant. Since they are so reserved, they express their anger in a passive-aggressive manner.

459 is a triple withdrawn...I imagine 459 to be more removed and cut off as a way of addressing any inner anxiety.

Yeah you would have a difficult time with the triple withdrawn 459, many people do because their withdrawal and withholding feels harsh or very uninvolved. That's the type most likely to not realize their anger until much later, or not express it at all because they get stuck in not expressing themselves and experiencing everything more internally. The 1 in your tritype makes you more likely to exprsss discontent or negativity while the 7 still wants to keep things light and airy. The 459 can have a heavy feeling which can be daunting to someone desiring to keep things positive and productive as your tritype or the 371 might be inclined to do.

A 459 would be pretty comfortable with separateness and solitude.
[459]: Differences with 469 comes from the differences between 5 and 6 minds. 5 is like a withdrawn mind working alone to handle situations, life, and understanding, while 6 is more oriented to connections with collectivity and other people with thoughts. It's a receptive/expressive mind, using people as support for understanding and guidance. While 5 is more working alone, with its own maps and ideas.

As for the 4 5 9 part, ..It speaks to me, because it points to the actual awareness of the lack of love and the feeling of separateness for a 9. 5s and 4s are normally described as having the experience most rooted in separateness. Perhaps the distinctions are finer though. 5s representing a feeling of separateness of self, 4 representing separateness of identity, and 9 representing an awareness of separateness from "love" or from the "whole" of the universe.

E4 has the tri fixes 468 and 495 to deal with...where 468 push for a response while 459 move away. For example:
4x5 moves away...stops to....push for the response.
4x3 pushes for the response while moving away.

all three Reflective Solutions Enneacards
(Enneagram Types: 4, 5 & 9) in your Enneaspread.
Naturally reserved and reflective, you see yourself as intuitive, introspective, perceptive and thoughtful. Responsible and diligent, you resist taking action that is not first well considered and thought out. You dislike making sudden changes and prefer to take time to think things through before acting. When opposed, you tend to take a step back or move away from others to evaluate your circumstances to manage problems.

The 945 is very shy, sensitive and introspective. They need time to contemplate before taking action

594: Accepting and intuitive 5. Most sensitive and withdrawn 5, especially if self-preserving. Tends to be remote.

4-5-9 - The Introvert

A true introvert. The withdrawn likes to delve within them self in order to release their tensions and stress. The more problems that arise in their life the farther the find themselves from the external world.

459 - Knowledgeable and accepting 4. Most withdrawn and introspective 4, often an artisan, especially if self-preserving. Shy.

five with a nine fix: pattern seeking above all. whimsical exploration,
disposition of reluctant idealist. open minded,
philosophical perspective. can seem to lack focus
while associating groupings of information into larger
theories. likes people and humanity as a whole,
shares ideas and is relatively easy to get along with.

945: Intuitive and knowledgeable 9. Most introspective, withdrawn and reserved 9, especially if self-preserving or introverted [or both].

Another example would be a 4-6-8. Here we have a more aggressive and reactive Type 4 than say a 4-9-5, who would be more withdrawn, passive (9) and avoidant (5).

4-5-9 would rely on their sensations completely. This makes them the most self-focused of the types. Its about what you experience. Like a 9, they tend to avoid things they find uncomfortable (the keyword here is what they find uncomfortable. Not what is generally accepted as uncomfortable). Like a 5, tend to lean towards enrichment. And like a 4, establish their identity towards what they live through. Naturally, what we personally experience in ourselves (our emotions) are a part of what we experience. Since this type is so internally focused, they tend to live the most in their own minds and their own world. Thus, their five-fix tends to gather a lot of information on themselves. Their four-fix and ever changing sensations may make them slightly more likely to feel confused as to who they are. Experiencing this confusion, they may analyze this as a problem and perhaps something that shouldn't be(?). Well, like I said, I'd need to think about it more. But mainly, this fix relies heavily on what they go through and what they live through. Especially on feeling sensations. I'm not really quite sure on what else to say, really
5-4-9: shy, somewhat fragile and a bit romantic, such Fives tend to put on a congenial façade to hide their rich inner worlds from the society. They outwardly appear friendly but reserved, usually mysterious to other people who sense there is more depth and intensity hidden behind their amiable mask. These Fives have rich imaginations and love to immerse themselves in thoughts and fantasies. They are introspective, dreamy, creative and socially withdrawn, but also disorganized and painfully avoidant.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, sexual, 5w4
similar tritypes: 5-9-4, 9-5-4, 4-5-9
flavours: insightful, imaginative, enigmatic and unstructured

5-9-4: reclusive, modest, discreet and quite dreamy and unassertive, such Fives possess a vast imagination in which they spend most of their time among their theories, fantasies and vivid memories. They have a somewhat bohemian charm to them – they are relaxed, casual, creative and a bit reckless. Usually pleasant and undisturbed on the outside, they hide complex inner worlds in which reality interweaves with fantasy, real with imaginary, the objective with the subjective. These Fives are gentle, sensitive and avoidant and tend to express their anger in a passive-aggressive manner.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, sexual, 5w4
similar tritypes: 5-4-9, 9-5-4, 4-5-9
flavours: laid-back, unconventional, imaginative and random


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## madhatter

468 – The Truth Teller Archetype






These 2 tritypes come across as very different because the 8 in the 486 makes the 6 counter phobic and therefore comes across as more aggressive. The 469 comes across as more passive aggressive.
The 468 reacts and rings the alarm to prevent makind a mistake to calm down and the 469 doubts and procrastinates to avoid making a mistake.... To calm down.

*most reactive-468, 864, 648

The 468 is constantly calling off truth as they see it and sees it as their business to warn people of the potential downfalls and pitfalls in the emotional and mental world. It's the type in each center that is "truth telling" and tends to be the most reactive, even hyperreactive. She said it's typically sexual subtype, but she's seen social too. There's a tendency to feel an acute sense of disappointment because their incredibly acuity at seeing the problems ahead or the potential pitfalls of any situation causes people to misunderstand their reactivity and emotionality.

If you are 468, you are intuitive, inquisitive and direct. You want to be original, certain and straight-forward. You are highly sensitive, track inconsistencies and are like the ‘canary in the coal mine’ calling off unspoken agendas, motives and emotions. You are also very intense and can at times be rebellious and emotionally reactive. Your life mission is to identify what is insincere and not what it appears to be, and alert others of potential hazards. A whistleblower, you are happiest when you are in a position to help others from being misled. You can be so focused on what can go wrong and on potential hazards that you miss how controlling you become and your impact on others and what is truly important and meaningful.

468...intensity

where 468 push for a response while 459 move away.

You have all three Immediate Responder Enneacards
(Enneagram Types: 4, 6 & 8) in your Enneaspread.
You see yourself as intense, responsive, challenging and instinctive. You avoid insincerity and people with hidden agendas. Like a canary in a coal mine, you are sensitive to what others miss. You tend to react strongly to pretense, seeking to call off the truth before moving forward.

I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.

the 468 is a true challenger and truth teller. The 4 may be shy but this Tritype is very intense and reactive--quick to speak their mind. The 485 is the true intellectual that has strong opinions about their feelings and thoughts but less reactivity. Sexual instinct with 4 dominant makes both tritypes more intense. The 468, however, is more dutiful and feisty whereas the 458 is one of the tritypes that lives in their head researching and following their own muse.

As a sx468, It will feel counter-intuitive but you can learn ways to manage the anxiety that is underneath the reactivity. When you feel threatened and the fear of being inadequate rises, take a long deep breath and exhale....first...It is simply your adrenaline running and filling you with emotional anxiety. It is emotional panic and fear of isolation, blame, abandonment and/or separation. It feels life threatening so remind yourself that the intense feelings will decrease... stay connected to your gut and you will feel more connected to yourself. That way you can deliver your truth of the message and be heard rather than becoming the problem.
4s in general hold the archetype of the mystery, the erotic feminine principle, chaos, beauty, tragedy, and most of all the role of emotional familiarity. The 468 is meant to name the emotional truth that is unspoken and therefore missing and to go on a quest to find it.

Each Enneagram Type has a trap, a hook so to speak. The trap for the 468 to believe that your identity is tied to what you name and to need others to acknowledge it or believe it. If you hold on to the higher truth of your intuitive insights rather than your feelings surrounding them, more and more, they will flow through you to the right person, at the right time. I have found the 468 to be at times one of the most challenging Tritypes but more importantly, by far one of the most sensitive, intuitive, compassionate and heroic.

The 468 has a counter-phobic 6 and.... the 4 is counter-envious... as in...they hate being envious and try to contain their their negative emotions. The problem is that the 468 is impulsive and emotional....often confronting before they think about it.

The 486 is much more assertive that the 416. The 461 tends to being very critical of themselves to avoid being criticized. This tritype is very particular The 416 hesitates and the 486 impulsively reacts. A perceived threat to the primary instinct triggers the tritype.

‎846 vs 845. These two tritypes are very different. Both take charge and seek solutions. The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust. The 845 is more introverted and introspective. The 854 has 5 as a line of connection as well as in the tritype and makes this 8 more scholarly and focused on depth.

4-6-8 - The Hot Head

This type is characterize by their reactivity. The tend to initiate conflict and take offense easily. They me feel that everyone is out to get them.

468 - Inquisitive and direct 4. Most rebellious, reactive and direct 4, especially if sexual subtype.

The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468.

Other persistent tritypes are the 125, 145, 468. Aggression with tenacity or persistences makes one able to be relentless in their pursuits.

The 468 has the instinctual, emotional type in each center. And, there is a need to call off the truth of what is unspoken. I find the 468 to be very persistent... relentlessly so when seeking whatever ignites their passion

eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
and circumstances.

6-4-8 Direct and intuitive 6, most reactive and feelingful, most rebellious tends to vacillate between feeling 8ish or 4ish.

Another example would be a 4-6-8. Here we have a more aggressive and reactive Type 4 than say a 4-9-5, who would be more withdrawn, passive (9) and avoidant (5).

The 468 is always visible as this tritype shoots from the hip and voices their concerns and opinions. They are the truth tellers.

I'm a 468. I'm direct, as I find this is the best way to communicate my feelings, or myself to others (being as sensitive as I am, I try my best to be compassionate, or not step anyone's toes while doing this. My mom says this makes me articulate). I feel confident in certain areas, but not so much in others (though I'd die if anyone knew that.) Others have told me I am funny, and seem tough (though I cry at the drop of the hat.) I'm a good judge of character, and am very intuitive. I can tell when people are dishonest or not how they want to seem, and it frustrates me when others do not see things from my perspective. If a friend undermines my judgment, I feel betrayed, and they seem disloyal. I find my biggest struggle is feeling hypersensitive. I can recognize when I'm being that way, but if something upsets me, it's often an incredibly overwhelming and powerful feeling that I feel I can't just put aside. At the time, I feel reacting is standing up for myself, but I later feel badly for hurting someone else.

In that case is much more possible the 468 because adds an intensity in 6 that makes it look like a 4.

Sx 4s, 6s and 8s can all be pretty [blocked due to guideline #4 violation]ing ruthless in their extermination of foes; take a sx 684 and you have a veritable pit bull, someone who potentially sees extermination as their mission. And given the truth telling nature of that tritype and sx/so (at least their truth), that tendency is also compounded. (Truth telling= extermination of lies)

I think all the emotion and reactivity of the 684 tritype and the passion and impulsiveness of sx/so is more than enough to over-ride the typical 6w5 characteristics of caution and consideration.

As a 468, I find it tough to be up all the time. I see the darkness, the shadow, that the emperor has no clothes, I see the truth behind the persona, the lie we tell collectively to avoid the pain underneath...

When the 4 and 6 are in the tritype there is more negativity as a strategy to prevent making a mistake that will bring shame, blame and criticism. This is most true of the 461 and then 468 and then the 469.

Has anyone else with this tritype had trouble letting things go?
When I finally got that I was a 6 I was able to see how I tested and provoked all the time. Finding out that I am a 684 really helped me to see even more.
Most of the time, I am playful and teasing. I watch 8 come in and push my 6 even more into justice issues. I am super loyal, too a fault. I like to have fun but I can be trouble now and then. I get that 4 is my heart type so I can be over the top at times. My emotions take over and it happens so fast that it is hard to manage my tendency to blurt. I call a spade a space which is why I thought I was an 8. I can see that I also need depth and meaning and am moody like a 4.
When they all come together in reaction I am way too intense for people. I still fight this tendency.

I also know a sp/sx 6w7 684. He's probably the most independent 6 I've ever known. Could be mistaken for an 8. His reactivity and intensity comes out much more in his actions and the sp hides a lot of it from view. You see the consequences of his reactivity rather than the reactivity itself.

Rebelling, reacting, and defending. (4-6-8)

Being a 468 and with the sexual instinctive center I find myself in a constant exploration of truth, and I find I discover my truth most profoundly in meaningful,open,intimate,honest connections that serve this higher purpose and not the relationship itself. It is the honest healthy mirroring that propels this quest into an accelerated personal growth of enlightenment.

The sx 468 is very impacted by truth and speaking to what is hidden, unknown or unspoken. The intensity of the sx 468 puts this tritype on the fast track.

sp 468. Truth is fundamental in my life too, it requires calm, openness, free from mental noise or emotional reaction. Slow exploring and understanding. It feels like being free from emotional hooks and forget false views from the society without fighting them, to restore a peaceful and benevolent sense of my own goodness and truth at 1. After that I can become really happy and powerful at helping others by simply explaining what I've understood about life.

The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority.

as an Ennea-type 8 with a tritype of 846, the 4 heart fix plays out in an 8ish way. You still see the 8's motivations driving the 4, but the outward appearance of the defense mechanisms or behaviors becomes 4ish in nature when the heart fix gains prominence. This would be the same for the head fix.

468. As a 4, I don't like doing things. I like living things. So I try to find the things in which doing becomes living. It's wrting novels, short stories, writing and recording music. What I like best is listenning to the result when it's, beautiful, touching, complete and magical. I'm my geatest fan. But also love learning from people that have gone further than me, in reading or talk. Now I develop an other mode of doing where discipline is focused on. This is training. I love training to play or sing as perfectly. as I can. I relax, concentrate, leave eveything behind. It's energizing and brings clarity and purity. In this mode, 6 disapear, 4 stops self absobtion. 1 rules.
I can't speak for other 486s, but I like ideas and the search for truth and meaning, which means I'm constantly searching for new information, constantly curious, and one train of thought leads to another. (I even speak in parenthetical notes!) However, I feel better about myself when I get up and do more physical tasks, such as doing artwork, gardening, organizing, or cooking. I also find that when it comes to my teaching career, I'm motivated more by calling than duty. The focus on reading and research in order to understand theoretical foundations, derive meaningful insights, and gain inspiration to share with students is my constant driving force. (i've got a big, strong 5 wing operating underground, too.)

684 The Truth Teller. Direct and intuitive 6. This is the most reactive, creative and feelingful 6. Highly rebellious, this 6 is almost always the counter-phobic 6 with a heroic nature. Generally this 6 vacillates between being 8ish or 4ish.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnerable, at the mercy of injustice, being inadequate, emotionally cut off ordinary, commonplace, and abandoned.

Both 4s and 6s can be emotional. The questions is what are you emotional about? In terms of difficult behaviors...
6s identify a source to prove
4s identify a source to impress
648 reactive, edgy

The sx with 4 brings emotional intensity and a need for closeness with desired intimates...and, there is anger if intimacy is thwarted or denied. The 468 is impulsive and highly reactive... the focus is on immediate resolution. The 469 feels a great deal of doubt and in general is not as reactive. There is more of a tendency to hesitate, plan and prepare with more anxiety.

The 469 is more phobic than the 468.

As 4 is dominant, in addition to seeing themselves as intuitive and deep with a need for beauty and aesthetics....The 479s see themselves as loving, innovative and gentle, the 468 as intense and iconoclastic and the 469 as thoughtful and introspective.

The 468 feels more inclined to be the truth teller at all costs so they take greater risks

I'm pretty intense and reactive. Inside I carry alot of anger, shame, protectiveness, and courage. I have to take alot of deep breaths throughout the day to center myself...I'm willing to confront people which has gotten me in alot of trouble, if I have a conflict with someone I like it to be finished...I like things out in the open...I am very invested in what is really going on underneath the surface...so I'm thinking 468.

sexual instinct combined with the 6 and 8 brings a strong sense of justice and a great need for loyalty. The sx 468 craves and gives devotion. The 468's heart is broken if they feel unseen or invisible to those they are bonded to...it feels like a deep betrayal if they feel like their feelings don't matter. They can't move forward until they feel heard. David says love your 4, hate your 4 but don't ignore your 4. When hurt, this tritype can come across as an emotional 8.
I know that in an intimate relationship that I feel deeply hurt and betrayed when my partner doesn't validate what I see or feel. For example, I have said to boyfriends "that girl was flirting with you and she was disrespecting me." If my partner dismisses me, doesn't acknowledge what I know happened, then I am deeply wounded....I start attempting to drive my point home by getting louder or being persistent. I wanted him to let me know that my intuition was right and display to the girl that he was taken. I have found that it helps the 468 and the 4 in general to remember that others for the most part are not trying to be insensitive. They simply see the situation through a different lens. The key is to remember that as a 4, you know and feel things at a deep and intuitive level. But....it is also important to remember that you will feel much better about your circumstances when you put your insights into context ...Think of how the other person might be feeling based on their type and life experiences rather than your own. The trap for the 468 is to feel hurt by drawing the wrong conclusion from a disappointing interaction. Your intuitions are correct but your conclusion may be flawed if you haven't considered the context.... 

Do you feel angry with him and then angry with yourself for being angry? Most sexual 468 do....It triggers the feelings of being inadequate. Be kind to the part of you that feels insignificant to your mate. Remember who you are...find the way that you unconsciously denigrate your feelings. It may elude you, but it is always there for 4s. Your reality is real. Simply add the critical data that will remind you that you are whole and complete regardless of how you feel treated, It is a very tall order for any 4 or sexual subtype but especially for the sexual 468.  It can, however be the way back to your true self when you feel hurt and disoriented.
Don't be [angry/ashamed], it's the way you were made. And, that 4 intensity, when channeled, can change other's lives for the better. 4s are pioneers in their own way, and Sx4s can be very powerful. The fear of abandonment with 4s is very high, so they unconsciously over blame themselves for relationship issues. The more autonomous types have the opposite problem and need to become more self aware of their healthy dependencies and of their role in impacting others.


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## madhatter

469 Seeker Archetype

469

If you are 469, you are intuitive, inquisitive and accepting. You want to be original, certain and peaceful. You are a very sensitive and can experience intense feelings of self-doubt and uncertainty. As a result you need multiple sources of confirmation. You want to be individualistic but can fear being separate from others.

Your life mission is to raise the questions pertaining to the mysteries of life and share your findings with others. A true seeker, you are happiest when you feel you can answer the question of who you are.

You can be so focused on your feelings, insecurities and doubts that you can feel paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong decision and of being misled or duped.

The 469 is a seeker with a lot of self doubt. There is always more to learn when you are this tritype but the desire is to develop a philosophy. the 6 and 4 have the most self doubt along with the 9. The 4 doubts their feelings, the 6 their thoughts. 6s want reassurance, 4s want praise to offset their natural tendency to be shame sensitive. The 4 leading is more concerned with the Who am I question and hopes to 'someday' have that answered through constant introspection and referencing their own feelings. I can only speak from my own lens and say that the 6 leading is less identity focused. Who Am I doesn't enter the picture like the 4, and less reliance on needing to set themselves apart to resolve the philosophical dilemma.

...the 6 will stereotypically give 469 some sort of orientation around associations to ease anxiety...469 will have more of a push-pull reaction pattern with authority in staving off inner anxiety.

The 9 or 4 with the 469 tritype has the 3 types that feel doubt. Doubt breeds insecurity which increases anxiety. The gift of this tritype is the ability to search for meaning. What begins as doubt ultimates brings a great deal of knowledge that can lead to greater understanding.

The sx 469s want the security of that comes with a trusted relationship. Grief can feel overwhelming and many have shared feeling flooded. They also report that grief brings up fear.

Both the 469 and 269 tend to be passive. The 269 is more engraciating. The 469 is more aloof.

The 468 reacts and rings the alarm to prevent making a mistake to calm down and the 469 doubts and procrastinates to avoid making a mistake.... To calm down.

The 469 is very gentle unless threatened.They are very out of touch with their gut! The struggle is with doubt and inaction.

9s fear being in conflict. 479 vs 469. Look at the level of confidence and optimism. The 7 brings a light touch with magical thinking, hoping for the best. In contrast, the 6 brings support and loyalty. Both are highly intuitive but the 469 has more doubts - The 479 is more future oriented, focusing on the possibilities. The 469 is more dutiful with a heavier heart, fearing that they can't make enough of a difference.
‎469s report a fear of making ten wrong decision and then having feelings of painful self consciousness and shame for having done so.... But also for not making a decision.

If 6 is dominant in the 469 tritype, there are more obvious fears and concerns. However, 946 and 469 are equally troubled by insecurities.
All 3 types have a little paralysis through analysis. And all 3 hate conflict. ) The 469 experiences extreme self doubt and hesitates more than other 4s. It is a shy 4 but they do have their own opinions...they are just reluctant to voice them. The 649 has the greatest difficulty trusting their own thoughts and tends to seek multiple confirmations before making decisions. The 964 is plagued with indecision too and can look like a 6 but they are not as inclined to seek opinions from others. They just avoid the conflict hoping it will resolve itself.

The 469 is the most doubting tritype regardless which type is in charge. It is also the tritype that most struggles with a constant sense of self. They can also be somewhat passive. The only tritype more passive is the 269. The 269 is happier in presentation.

Regarding doubt for the 469: I think Katherine said that the 4 has self-doubt, the 6 doubts themselves and others and the 9 has the believer/doubter dichotomy.

the 649 (or 469 964) want peace harmony and gentleness. They are sensitive and doesn't know what to trust and in particular doesn't know what to trust in themselves. She stated that the 6 is more often than not phobic and needs multiple sources of confirmation and information. They don't feel they can rebound from emotional pain so they tend to avoid it through the questioning process and end up finding more questions.

469 is going to have more difficulty being separate from others. More shame and anxiety about being different. There would be more checking in with others.

(4)-6-9 - The Normative 4
4-(6)-9 - The Withdrawn 6
4-6-(9) - The Reactive 9

This tritype has many self-confidence problems. They may often feel as though they need help from others, but that they are unable to get it. They fight between needing others and striving for seclusion.

6-4-9
Accepting and intuitive, most emotional and passive, can think they are a 2 or a sexual subtype. Most doubting 6.

This will often explain why non 6s that are not self-preserving wonder why they run high anxiety. For example, the 9 or 4 with the 469 tritype has the 3 types that feel doubt. Doubt breeds insecurity which increases anxiety. The gift of this tritype is the ability to search for meaning. What begins as doubt ultimates brings a great deal of knowledge that can lead to greater understanding.

946: Intuitive and inquisitive 9. Most inclined to hesitate and feel doubt and uncertainty. Most gentle, passive 9. High anxiety.

When the 4 and 6 are in the tritype there is more negativity as a strategy to prevent making a mistake that will bring shame, blame and criticism. This is most true of the 461 and then 468 and then the 469.

649 The Seeker. Accepting and intuitive 6. This is the most emotional and accommodating 6. This 6 has the most self-doubt and uncertainty and often seeks multiple sources of confirmation before making a decision. This 6 is very sensitive, and can be mistaken for a 4 or 2.

The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, targeted, chaos, conflict, being loveless, complication, discord, being shutout, inharmonious, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, being abandoned.

Anxiety and worry increase with the 1 and doubt and uncertainty with the 9. Examine your motivations rather than your behaviors. This is especially difficult for the 6, but more so for the 649 as all 3 types tend to doubt as a defense strategy. This is the Tritype that is most reluctant to take a stand for their "own" opinion until they are angry. The 641 has all 3 types that fear making a mistake and being at risk for having done so. They tend to be more likely to show frustration and to correct and instruct others ( especially for the so 641).

your descriptions sound more like sp1 in the gut. As a sp6 you have a natural iine of connection to sp9. Research has shown that you move to your wings and lines of connection with the same dominant instinct running the show. When your sp6 moves to sp9 and sp3 it is momentary and adding to you sp6. When you shift in your tritype your sp6 shifts to the 1 for solutions and runs all permutations of the 1 driven by the needs and concerns of the self-pres. The confusion may be that sp1 worries much like a 6 but the focus is on improving. So your instinct may have made it more difficult to land on the 614. Take your time. The 694 is much more hidden and inhibited. The 641 is focused on the perfecting and refining...getting it right.

Both 4s and 6s can be emotional. The questions is what are you emotional about? In terms of difficult behaviors...
6s identify a source to prove
4s identify a source to impress
649 doubting, insecure

I'm 649 too...some days 469, and some 964
My mind automatically scans for rejection, conflict, and inclusion/exclusion, whenever I'm focusing on *me* (for example putting myself 'out there' with my music - which is my absolute heart and soul). Whenever my self and esteem and worth is on the line, whenever I've made a personal *effort* to engage or simply self-express to others, I'm basically a wreck.
However if attention is not on me, I'm fine...often one with nature, internalizing the world, being receptive and in touch with my inner self, entertaining myself with my mind, desires, fantasy...I can do that in my own privacy and on my own terms and I'm happy to not need others. But I'm too often pulled to find myself in the world (and show myself to it) to stay isolated for long. I can (and often do) get passive and can let a lot of years go by spinning on the same ungroundedness, not really pushing myself out there for fear of rejection and not being what I envision myself to be (wish to be). I have a lot of 'go along' energy that I fall back on when I need emotional and psychic rest.

I think my tritype is 469. It particularly plays itself out in the social realm via shame, feeling utterly different, feeling hunted when very insecure (with no real external evidence to back the feeling up) and then by succumbing to a desire to merge with the group by lying down and playing 'dead' like a puppy. The merging brings short-term relief until my need to express myself takes over. If I can't I feel sickened by my lack of authenticity, if I can I do which opens me up to feeling exposed and ashamed again so I withdraw to avoid feeling hunted.

The sx with 4 brings emotional intensity and a need for closeness with desired intimates...and, there is anger if intimacy is thwarted or denied. The 468 is impulsive and highly reactive... the focus is on immediate resolution. The 469 feels a great deal of doubt and in general is not as reactive. There is more of a tendency to hesitate, plan and prepare with more anxiety.

The 469 is more phobic than the 468.

The 649 ponders...thinks and rethinks. They are introspective like the 459...just more people oriented. Their shame is in making a mistake...they must get it right like the 461 but do not feel that they can easily say their opinion our loud due to a fear that they might make a mistake.
As 4 is dominant, in addition to seeing themselves as intuitive and deep with a need for beauty and aesthetics....The 479s see themselves as loving, innovative and gentle, the 468 as intense and iconoclastic and the 469 as thoughtful and introspective.


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## madhatter

478 – The Messenger Archetype

The 847 is the passionate, cutting edge, innovative, compassionate, freedom seeking, creative, non conformist focused on implementing and manifesting their original vision.

*Most freedom loving--478, 874, 784

sexual 748 is a very flamboyant type...748/847/478 is the most in need of freedom. This is the messenger archetype that feels they have a message to impart and wants the freedom to explore themselves and their external worlds. WIth 7 in charge it's an extremely hard to pin down type, that typically has no problems expressing the flamboyancy this tritype can bring (with 4 in charge the self consciousness can take over, like with myself, and with 8 in charge you get more of a playful 7ish 8, like Pink or Katherine Fauvre). She also said it's the least political of the tritypes (except maybe the 548 tritype) because of the outspoken nature of the three types coming to together (which helps explain why the whole political nature of grad school completely evades me).

478/784/847 Description: If you are the 478, you are intuitive, innovative and straight-forward. You want to be original, inspirational and self-possessed. A cutting-edge tracker of both your internal and external worlds, you are an unconventional, passionate master of solutions. Outwardly, you are confident but inwardly you are emotionally vulnerable. Life Mission: Your life mission is to find truth and communicate your findings. A true messenger, you are happiest when you use your creativity to find compassionate ways to understand yourself and empower others. Blind Spot: You can be so focused on your opinions, insights and what is new and profound that your freedom seeking nature can come across as arrogant, resistant, and/or uncooperative.
That blind spot was huge for me, having everyone in my life nod in agreement when it's read to them was a little hard, I really don't see myself as uncooperative but that's the nature of having a blind spot. My grandmother is a sp7w8 748 and we are very similar, she can seem so adamant about getting her way that it can look extremely childish if she really digs in. However, I try other tactics before getting to that but eventually the boundaries harden and flexibility I normally have completely disintegrates.

847: Intuitive and innovative. Most creative, original and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric 8 especially if sx.

874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.

478 and 451 are very different types of 4. The 478 is intensely individualistic and more assertive whereas the 451 is individualistic but much more introspective and reserved. The 478 is somewhat optimistic and focuses more on the need for inspiration than the 451. The 451 is more particular and is more motivated by gathering meaningful information that is useful.
(4)-7-8 - The Aggressive 4
4-(7)-8 - The Reactive 7
4-7-(8) - The idealistic 8

Somewhat manic. Dramatic and somewhat confrontational. Uncontrolled emotions.

eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
and circumstances.

If 478 there is an emphasis on freedom, inspiration and diversity.

This tritype is the most creative type on the enneagram regardless of which type is in charge. This creativity may or may not have artistic talent but always has a sense of aesthetics. All three crave authenticity, depth and individuality,
The 487 craves attention, affirmation and mirroring more than autonomy and freedom. They need to be mirrored as not only unique but highly original. Their greatest demands are those they make of themselves.
The 847 craves autonomy and must be the master and commander of their lives. The 847 does not seek mirroring unless very narcissistic. All narcissistic types demand an undo amount of mirroring to feel safe. The 487 uses the power of indifference when in defense.

847: Intuitive and innovative. Most creative, original and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric 8 especially if sx.

784: Direct and intuitive 7. Most independent, original and creative 7. Can be moody. Most non-conforming, and intense 7.

4-7-8 is the most individualistic and fun-loving 4. Appear more self-possessed as sadness is hidden.

For example, if you were an 8-7-4, you would have secondary strategies that are very different than an 8-2-6. The 8-7-4 is a fast paced creative, feelingful and optimistic Type 8 whereas the 8-2-6 is a more cynical, loyal and helpful Type 8.
the 874 is a fast-paced, optimistic, creative, and emotional type 8 whereas the 826 is a more dutiful, loyal and helpful type 8.

874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.

If your primary Type is 8, you might have a Tritype configuration of 8-7-4. The primary Enneagram Type for you would be Type 8, however, this Tritype combination indicates that you would most likely be a strong, positive person who seeks solutions (8), options (7) and meaning (4). What is fascinating is that if the strategy of Type 8 fails to give you the desired results of overcoming obstacles, you would then employ the strategy of Type 7 and then if needed Type 4.

the 748 is a messenger of the new...always ahead of their time...triple creative, innovative doers...no restrictions....must have freedom...original thinkers that follow their own muse and must get the message out.

784--visionary, powerful and aesthetically brilliant, always ahead of the curve

874 tritype feels lighter and more enthusiastic to me, than does the 847 tritype, which feels more like a strike of lightning burrowing into the ground.

Perhaps the tritype is 847 where 7 acts as an ever-running generator, constantly humming underneath the surface. The 7 energy operates more like "monkey mind" than a physically expressed energy.

As an sx 874 I feel called to discover as much as I can about human nature and then share what I learned. Some of my greatest moments of clarity have come during times of great adversity. When I feel grief and loss it always feels personal and I feel separate from others. When I allow the pain and suffering the 8 wants to avoid, I am able to connect to that which is universal and know that all people everywhere understand the meaning of loss. This is when I remember that I am never truly alone or separate

The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities.

The 847 is more extroverted intuition with the attention going outward. It is a lighter and is more optimistic


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## madhatter

479 Gentle Spirit Archetype

479

This is the sort of sprite or fairy like tritype. There is a need to remain positive while still searching for meaning. The blindspot is that there is an attraction to magical thinking and missed opportunities to speak their truth so they find themselves glossing over negative feeling states in favor of something more comfortable or positive. When 4 is in charge there's a tendency to not see all the ways in which depression or sadness is evaded through this magical thinking process.

the life mission is that this is the true healer archetype. They are often found doing bodywork or other healing practices as these are the 3 types that have a desire to transform. They like to inspire people toward happiness through expressing their creativity in a peaceful non-intrusive way.

She said this is the most lyrical type, a sort of ethereal archetype (so is the 459 but it is a more withdrawn ethereal quality, almost wispy and ghost like) whereas the energy here is lighter and more impish or I think when it's a male energy you get a strong trickster archetype (like dfgray). Playful yet meaningful. Very idealistic (although not quite as idealistic as the 471) but still concerned with maintaining positivity and feelings of being up. I think Regina Spektor is an example of this archetype with 4 in charge.

I'm actually put off by the idea of being in a "healing profession", though there's a strong likelihood that 7-4-9 is my tritype. I guess it's a reluctance to mix energies with society at large, or something of that nature. I wouldn't want to be in a profession where I constantly had to touch people. I'm not a cold person, I just wouldn't want a day filled with people-touching, if that makes sense.
EDIT: Oh, also, I would have to say "reluctant to show anything negative" is not such a likely descriptor for me.
Katherine said the 479 (749, 947) all took some kind of issue with the term "healer", even if they were in healing professions or were attracted to it. She was wondering what it was about that term that was off-putting, so what you've shared above is interesting (from a 7 perspective).
She said this is the gentle soul tritype that has a healing presence on others whether or not they intend to so when she says healer this is what she means as opposed to being vocationally attracted to the healing arts (although this is very common with this tritype).

I think for me when I was deciding between 479 and 478 I realized that my tendency to push, and shake up overrides my tendency to calm down. Although I can do both. I ultimately didn't end up going into counseling because I am a.) too impatient b.) too bossy and directive and c.) need to have more freedom to invite change than that discipline can allow.

So while I consider myself attracted to healing, and am interested in healing arts (energy healing, reiki, etc). I want to manifest it through a more intense and provocative way. Something that shakes people up in order to invite growth and development.

When 8 replaces the 9 you get more of a sense of groundedness or at least more practicality and realism that can seem a little harder edged and less lyrical.

For me there's less of a tendency toward optimism for the sake of being positive or keeping it light, although I don't like for things to get too serious, but if things need to be serious than I'm willing to go there. It's more of an if it's ugly, let's look at it. I actually struggle with that within myself; needing to see it if it's ugly (4 and 5 wing) with a propensity toward evasiveness and denial (with the 7 and 8) it's a strange mixture. Katherine says with 9 it (whatever "it" may be) must be transmuted into something lyrical, beautiful or playful to be tolerable.

you are very identified with the defense of optimism and tend to hid your more painful feelings and pessimism for fear of being rejected. you see the wonder in beauty and are gentle, lyrical, and idealistic in the way you relate to others. you are attracted to the healing profession or arts.
your life mission is to identify what is truly meaningful in life and help people transform negative feeling into positive change. a true gentle spirit, you feel happiest when you have creative expression to reconnect with your innermost self and facilitate change.
your blind spot is that you can be so focused on ideal circumstances that you become trapped in magical thinking and fail to speak your higher truth and act in accordance with your true feelings.
your growing edge is to speak your truth even if it will create conflict with others. going along to get along or to keep things light and upbeat denies the truth of the moment and can cause you to become distant from yourself. higher love has a voice and true joy is not dependent on the image of being happy.

This tritype [927] is the most identified with seeing themselves as peaceful. More than any other tritype, they need peace and positive relating to experience a sense of being... so are extremely uncomfortable with negativity in relationships. The 479 doesn't like it but expects it.

4 and 7 together combine to create a sense of the creative, intuitive, magical and imaginative. The gut type determines the flavor. 479s are elegant, wispy and ethereal. When 4 is dominant the 4 is reluctant to show their edgy, more negative emotions. The emphasis is on having an image that is deep but not seen as difficult. Suffering is more private.

The 749 is the 7 that is the most elusive, liquid and fluid. They are positive in a gentle way with a touch of sadness. They are identified with being deep but still future oriented and forward moving whereas the 479 is identified with past and what is missing and believed to be of importance.

The 947 usually thinks that they are the 4 as they see life as bittersweet and feel deeply but they are not as intense as the 4 or as hungry for diversity and experience as the 7. The 947 and 974 seek harmonic resonance more than the the 479 or 794. They want depth and beauty but seek peace and tranquility more. They pine in a quiet gentle manner. They lack voltage...and struggle with naming their preferences in the face of adversity. Think of Dr Zhivago as an archetype of the 947. The 479, 749 and 947 are all very gentle and nostalgic.

If you have the sexual instinct as dominant you could easily identify with 974. The 972 is less ethereal and more focused on being positive. The 974 knows that they feel unhappy, they are more inclined to hide so that they will not be rejected for being negative.

All of the 79 combinations are somewhat positive. The 279 is focused on being pleasant. The 379 the most positive. The 479 Is positive outwardly but doesn't always feel it.

The 479 report that they feat that if they show negative emotions they might be rejected.

The 479 with 4 dominant feels devastated by negative mirroring. If a flaw is pointed out if feels disheartening. With negative feedback, the 479 will have trouble holding on to their sense of self... Self esteem suffers as the 479's sens of self is too fluid and takes the shape of the last mirror.

For the most part, 479s like to be in the healing/helping professions where they have the opportunity to use their intuition and creativity.

The 471 and the 479 are both focused on the vision, creativity and the magical. The difference is in the gut center. The 471 has 3 types with access to 1, so are very critical of themselves and feel they must manifest the vision. The 479 is less strident and more soft-spoken and gentle. They are dreamers and intuit but can be shy about pushing to manifest.

9s fear being in conflict. 479 vs 469. Look at the level of confidence and optimism. The 7 brings a light touch with magical thinking, hoping for the best. In contrast, the 6 brings support and loyalty. Both are highly intuitive but the 469 has more doubts - The 479 is more future oriented, focusing on the possibilities. The 469 is more dutiful with a heavier heart, fearing that they can't make enough of a difference.

479 do not realize how healing their gentle nature can be. Your life mission is to identify what is truly meaningful in life and help people transform negative feeling into positive change.
The 479 is more inclined to side step, make nice, and try to get along as conflict feel unbearable.


If you are a 479, you are intuitive, innovative and accepting. You want to be original, positive and peaceful. You are very identified with the defense of optimism and tend to hide your more painful feelings and pessimism for fear of being rejected. You see the wonder in beauty and are gentle, lyrical and idealistic in the way you relate to others.

Inwardly they feel a lot of intensity, especially if they are the sexual instinct. identification is with gentleness and can feel uncomfortable if they share something negative.

479 and 379 I have deemed the "cool guy" tritypes. When 4 is there you get that sort of archetype of the cool artist, laid back, playful, witty, but with a sort of "hidden sorrow". You sense there is more there but that they are keeping you at bay in order to avoid dipping too much into the swamp.
7-4-9 (and the variations thereof) would have a goodly dose of magical thinking. Tending to overdose (in some form) on imagination and whim.

If you knew just how off-base the names 'Healer' and 'Gentle Spirit' are for the 9-4-7 tritype, and how slanted the name 'Ambassador' is for the 9-3-7 (or as you imply 9-4-7 with a very heavy Three wing), how pronounced the narcissistism and exhibitionism of these two tritypes can be, you might perhaps not be so eager to identify with them. Also, the challenge to feel grounded in the physical world, or at least in one's own physicality, is part of the Nine itself, not to mention the Four.

--'a more abandoning and erratic 9. An insatiable and emotionally discriminating 9.':
I'm 974 and others wouldn't describe me as 'erratic' (nor would I). I think 'abandoning and erratic' comes from your so/sx stack, which comes through as a loud note, to me, in your posts.

As for "insatiable and emotionally discriminating", I think this also taps your stack. Your so/sx-ness brings forward the more gregarious aspect of the 7 in your tritype, which manifests as a more-extroverted interplay with those in your presence - though I'm not saying you're an extrovert - there's just more desire for inclusion there. For me (sp/sx), the 7 in my tritype shows up more exclusively as "private mental fun", with only a small interest in "sharing the good times with y'all".

The 4 (in my tritype) shows up as a focus on aesthetics (including a pretty high degree of full-on snobbery in that area), plus life-long issues with depression and feelings of being valueless.

479 - Innovative and accepting 4. Most positive 4. May have defense of optimism hiding pessimism as sadness is hidden.

Also, both sevens and nines have a tendency to want to avoid dealing with negative situations for different reasons...with 7-9-4, I'd guess there would be a lot more denial than the usual 7, but with 4 in there it couldn't be kept up for as long, so there might be cycles of denial-and-crash. There would probably be more underlying self-doubt than is normally found in seven, as well as using the withdrawing defense a bit more.

Yeah, I think seven brings a mild denial through optimism...and then nines tend to get into a bit of denial, because of their desire to avoid conflict/upsetting their equilibrium, so if nine were one of your tritypes, you'd probably have a bit of the "optimistic denial" of 7, but a bit of the "I don't want to deal with this" denial of 9, as well. By contrast, an 8 tritype would probably be more of a sobering influence on the seven, and 1 would probably add a bit of criticality and increased perfectionism (also making for a triple frustration type, with the 4 and 7...but probably less likely due to what you said about the "live and let live" approach to people.)

Cate Blanchet could be a 4. I see the 479 or 471 tritype...ethereal one moment strident the next. But there is a gentleness in her energy that seems more 479.

(4)-7-9 - The Positive 4
4-(7)-9 - The Withdrawn 7
4-7-(9) - The idealistic 9

A dreamer in every sense of the word. They love to go on flights of imagination, and dream up fantasy worlds. They may often find themselves disappointed in the real world however.

974: intuitive and innovative 9. Most creative 9, especially with an 8 wing (i would think 1 wing here). Tends to be moody. Extraverted 7ish.

As a 9-4-7, I value emotion in a 4-ish way. But the valuing seems once-removed in relation to my 9-ness. It's a belief (about emotion), and though beliefs affect behavior and attitude, in the case of the secondary tritype elements, they're not as reflexive as the response from the primary type.

The 479 is more gentle...and more ethereal. The 479 displays congenial attitudes and hides their feelings of anger for fear of being rejected. The 469 is more phobic than the 468. The 479 seems more easy going as they are more conflict-avoidant. They can demonstrate the outbursts of the sexual 4 when there is a threat to intimacy but feel terrible shame as their identity is built around being gentle and kind. The 468 feels more inclined to be the truth teller at all costs so they take greater risks.

As 4 is dominant, in addition to seeing themselves as intuitive and deep with a need for beauty and aesthetics....The 479s see themselves as loving, innovative and gentle, the 468 as intense and iconoclastic and the 469 as thoughtful and introspective.


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## PixieSaysHi

wow, hatter, this must have taken you awhile. thanks for all the info!


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## Drift

Hello everyone

Newbie needs help: I think I may be a Type 4
My highest score juggles between 4 and 5
Closely, as in only 2 scores of a difference from the highest, followed by 6 and 9. I read that there are only meant to be 3 definite types so how do I find out my tri-type?


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## madhatter

Drift said:


> Hello everyone
> 
> Newbie needs help: I think I may be a Type 4
> My highest score juggles between 4 and 5
> Closely, as in only 2 scores of a difference from the highest, followed by 6 and 9. I read that there are only meant to be 3 definite types so how do I find out my tri-type?


I would really recommend determining your core type first, before you determine your tritype. The two other types in the tritype are meant to feed your core type. I would say read up on type 4 and 5, and not just the descriptions. There's a wealth of information in this forum, spread all around. Read about the triads, the fears, the core motivations, etc. You can always find something to relate to in each type. But when I found my type, it was like a punch in the gut. I don't know if other people experienced something similar. Anyway, the tests are no good, except for pointing you in a general direction. You have to do some research, and now you have a few types to look into and see how you click.

As for finding out your tritype, you have one type from each triad or center: the Gut center (8, 9, 1), the Image center (2, 3, 4), and the Head center (5, 6, 7). And the type you choose tells you how you deal with the core issue of each center. For example, I'm 9-3-5. When I exhaust the strategies of 9, my wing, and my lines of integration, I'll move to 5 or 3; I become a very aloof 9, influenced by the 5; I become very focused on getting the "job" done, so to speak, an all-business, no-nonsense 9...this latter mode of mine made me think for a while that I was 358, and I relate to that archetype a lot. But I didn't know my core type yet. The process of finding your tritype could help you if you're still stumped on your core type, but hopefully that's not the case for you, as it was for me. As a 9, I related to almost everything except 9, go figure.


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## madhatter

PixieSaysHi said:


> wow, hatter, this must have taken you awhile. thanks for all the info!


You're welcome!  I just did it while watching TV anyway. Yay for multi-tasking!


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## soya

> 946: Intuitive and inquisitive 9. Most inclined to hesitate and feel doubt and uncertainty. Most gentle, passive 9. High anxiety.


I think this is my type. Yay.


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## OwLY

Here I got all excited and the most I get for a 9-5-3 tritype is two lines of text, or did I miss something? Or is it that the tritype is rare perhaps? Oh well, it's not like a description is the most important thing to discovering myself anyway.

Great job compiling all of this information by the way, I can imagine it took quite some time.


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## madhatter

OwLY said:


> Here I got all excited and the most I get for a 9-5-3 tritype is two lines of text, or did I miss something? Or is it that the tritype is rare perhaps? Oh well, it's not like a description is the most important thing to discovering myself anyway.
> 
> Great job compiling all of this information by the way, I can imagine it took quite some time.


Thanks!

As for the rarity of 953, I wouldn't say it's a rare type. I would say that it's not a popular type. From my observations, in the personality/enneagram internet community in general, everyone wants to be a 4 or a 8, probably because of some romanticizing delusions about what those types are really like, and no one really wants to be a primary type (3-6-9), because let's face it, they suck lol. In fact, all the Enneagram types suck, because they get at our root fears and expose what we want to keep hidden from ourselves. I know I certainly did not want to be a 9, because it sucked; it hit too close to home. The primary types are more blatant about this, while the romantic image of 4 or the powerful stereotype of 8 appeals to people, because IMO that's how people want to be viewed by others or by themselves. Therefore, those are the tritypes that are discussed the most. 

When it comes to the individual ordering of the tritypes, it was really hit or miss on the amount that I found. I wish I could have found more, especially since 953 is my tritype as well. But keep in mind that most of the time when it says "359", it's referring to the overall archetype, which is the umbrella term for all the various orderings (359, 395, 593, 539, 935, 953). So while it may not be the ordering that you identify with (or what others may identify with for their individual tritypes), my hope was that you would find something to relate to in the archetype, because we are sorely lacking in the tritype description department. 

While I can't focus on it right now because of school work, I'm going to go back and see if I can dig up anymore information, or perhaps write some of my own. Perhaps, PerC members can get a collaboration going. That's another hope that I had in posting this thread.


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## The13thGuest

This is very interesting. I've officially found my tritype.

_The 845 is the somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness_.

I originally thought myself to be 8-4-6, but I didn't relate much to the descriptions I had seen, so I looked at other possibilities.

Almost everything this says about the 458 is me, and I am an sx variant as well. 

Though I'm sure that if I looked at any tritype, I could see something in it resembling me, the 458 is very accurate.

Thank you for posting this.


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## madhatter

madhatter said:


> 145 The Researcher Archetype


 Found some more! @PixieSaysHi

The foremost 145 in my experience is an old friend, a 4w5-5w6-1w9 SO/SP INFP. He has the guiltiest conscience of anyone I've known. He doesn't chide himself for doing evil so much as his superego haunts him like something morbid and ghastly, like an Edgar Allen Poe narrative, for behaving inconsistently with his values. Even minor and practically inconsequential transgressions of this kind are amplified in his imagination. He has it bad. When he was 13, he was described as "13, going on 21," so serious and conscientious at such a young age. Outwardly, he's glum, droll, biting.

I'm an sp/so 4w5, and had strong moments of "reckless/dauntless" stuff, that sometimes sound like 8. The "flaming" of a 4 can sometimes look like 8. Also so4 individualist "honour" is close to 8.
Finally my gut fixation in tritype is 1, and it took me a lot of time to see it. To see it, I need to be quite balanced (not melancholic), and it showed through the following :
- perfectionist : especially in trying many solutions to find the best one : leave no stone unturned. It sometimes turns a little obsessive and counter-productive.
- having a quite "discrete" attitude of controlling people to a proper behaviour, and a desire to educate them (though my 4 and 5 both don't this idea very much)
- a strong desire of precision and accuracy in the things that I write, checking my words several times
- a message coming from the gut saying "I'm a good person"
- strong "good boy/good student" tendency
- elitist in art (4+5+1), rather idealist
- I like rules (making them, improving them, trying to convince people to agree with them and comply to them). In the things that matter to me, otherwise I can be very much of rebel actually...
In more unhealthy times, this is more a global fuzzy resentment against the world and people for not being more perfect.

I used get completely out of control with anger very frequently, but as soon as I calmed down I'd get frustrated with how irrationally and counter-productively I'd been behaving, 
That is such a classic One response to their outbursts. Almost immediate frustration (self-beating up, large or small). And the particular words chosen to explain why she was frustrated with herself: irrational and counter-productive. 
But now that I'm thinking about it, the One frustration about the outbursts at average levels also come with a strong sense of guilt (when they see how other people respond to them). And this definitely holds for the 5-4-1.


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## madhatter

madhatter said:


> 135 The Technical Expert Archetype


 Another update:

1-5-3 is triple competence. They are going to be good boys and girls and want to do things right. They will tend to be intelligent, do well at school, probably be a professional, often tend towards the scientific.

Descriptions I've read of this tritype have over-emphasised its coldness, imo. But they are stubborn and tend to think they're always in the right.

When I think of 153, the first person I'd think of is Mr Spock, along with the Vulcans, who are sometimes seen as 5's.

As far as I can see, both the strength and weakness of 153 thinking is that's it's often based on scientific rationale. You've mentioned some of the advantages. However, Kirk and other leaders show that the likelihood of success with any plan is based on factors other than just facts, figures and logic that the Vulcans value. Another issue with 1's is that they're inclined to think that if the benefits of a particular course of action are obvious, then there's no need to motivate people towards a given objective.

The Fauvres call this the most rational type on the E. Laser-focus, often very skilled with their hands. Can make very good surgeons. Rarely get rattled.
The challenge for this type would be getting in touch with their feelings and those of others and seeing the benefit of sometimes putting feelings first.
thomg - you said you think the "coldness" is overemphasized. This could be true. I'm wondering if all triple types make greater use of their wings and lines than other types just to avoid this one-dimensionality.

Their focus on detail can get in the way. My brother can be so focused on precision that practicality and expediency goes out the window. He can completely miss the bigger picture because he's so focused on smaller stuff being correct. Haha, to a really ridiculous extent. He can start out with an objective in mind and then get sidetracked by detail until he's sitting there taking 5 minutes to straighten a stack of papers. So, ironically, because he's so focused on competency he can end up being very incompetent.

And yes I want to do what is right and I often use a very scientific way to get it right. For example when I decided to get an aquarium I first read everything about aquariums, how to set them up, which fishes to put together and so on and so on. I became quite obsessed until I was confident that I would be able to install my new aquarium the right way. 
When it comes to school and work I am very organized and confident, I know that everything I do is done well and somehow I just feel it in my guts that I do better than most of the other people. When it comes to my private life I am not as sure of myself, I am very introverted and keep my feelings to myself. (wow this probably makes me sound like a horrible arrogant [blocked due to guideline #4 violation] but I assure you I am not... at least most of the time but when I need to be a [blocked due to guideline #4 violation] to get things done the right way then....)


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## Coburn

madhatter said:


> 378 378,837,738 If you are the 378, you are ambitious, innovative and protective. You want to be efficient, happy and straight-forward. You are a dynamic go-getter, focused on the prize. An expansive powerhouse, you see the big picture and a positive future with the will to make it happen. Seeking success, obstacles are seen as competitive challenges. Your life mission is to see what is possible and find innovative ways to achieve your goals. A true mover and shaker, you are happiest when you are in a position of power to manifest your vision and make things happen. You need to be doing to feel alive.	You can be so expeditious, assertive and results oriented that you miss your impact on others and the deeper meaning and significance of why you are doing what you are doing.


This is very much me. 

Thanks for the wonderful, insightful post! I appreciate it!


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## madhatter

JuliaRhys said:


> This is very much me.
> 
> Thanks for the wonderful, insightful post! I appreciate it!


You're very welcome! It is the Fauvres' description. I just wish it were longer.


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## Harley

I managed to get through most of tritypes, and I am amused at how a lot of these descriptions are just a compilations of stereotypes of three types jammed together. I was reading through my tritype ("The Ambassador"...haha) and it was obvious that what the description amounted to was a simple formula of success-oriented 3 + free-spirited energetic 7 + peace-loving 9 = triple-positive, free-spirited, peace-loving hippy *dances barefoot around the spring maypole*. I've never really been impressed by a lot of tritype descriptions, and the ones I have come from individuals who have direct knowledge of how their fixes affect them personally so you get a detailed picture of how each fix manifests in an individual, rather than some cute but trite copy-and-paste description.


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## madhatter

Harley said:


> I managed to get through most of tritypes, and I am amused at how a lot of these descriptions are just a compilations of stereotypes of three types jammed together. I was reading through my tritype ("The Ambassador"...haha) and it was obvious that what the description amounted to was a simple formula of success-oriented 3 + free-spirited energetic 7 + peace-loving 9 = triple-positive, free-spirited, peace-loving hippy *dances barefoot around the spring maypole*. I've never really been impressed by a lot of tritype descriptions, and the ones I have come from individuals who have direct knowledge of how their fixes affect them personally so you get a detailed picture of how each fix manifests in an individual, rather than some cute but trite copy-and-paste description.


I definitely agree. It is a trend I noticed while compiling all this stuff. This is why I refuse to buy the Fauvres' book, which is what they told me to do after I asked them about my tri-type. "Q: What is the 3-7-1 like? A: This is a type that likes to be efficient in a fun and principled way." That tells me nothing. It gets to be very frustrating, and I have come to the conclusion that to understand tri-types, one must understand each of the 9 types. Once you really understand the types individually, then you can understand how they would interact.

I'd really like others to post how their fixes affect them personally, as you said, to give balance to the descriptions I posted here.


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## Harley

madhatter said:


> I definitely agree. It is a trend I noticed while compiling all this stuff. This is why I refuse to buy the Fauvres' book, which is what they told me to do after I asked them about my tri-type. "Q: What is the 3-7-1 like? A: This is a type that likes to be efficient in a fun and principled way." That tells me nothing. It gets to be very frustrating, and I have come to the conclusion that to understand tri-types, one must understand each of the 9 types. Once you really understand the types individually, then you can understand how they would interact.
> 
> I'd really like others to post how their fixes affect them personally, as you said, to give balance to the descriptions I posted here.


Oh man, the Favure's IMO have the most cheesiest tritype descriptions out there. I recognized which ones were theirs while reading the thread by noting their cute packaged tone. I think it would be hard to get people to post accurate tritype/trifix (whatever floats your boat) descriptions because there is a high tendency to mistype when finding your non-core fixes. Identifying your other two fixes is a bit trickier because their core fixations aren't going to be as apparent as your main one so their manifesting behaviours and patterns are a bit trickier to catch. For instance, ever since I stumbled upon the enneagram I thought _for sure_ I had a 4-fix based on just reading a few descriptions of the type, until I actually started contemplating my issues related to the image triad and realized I mistyped my image fix.


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## PixieSaysHi

I agree with @Harley and @madhatter 

I am a 5-4-1. People who know me well in real life would attest to this. The 5 and 4 traits are almost tied so it has been difficult for me to discern which is my core.

This tritype in myself looks something like this: A longing loner who is DEEPLY passionate yet externally looks like an ice queen. There is a battle between the 5 and 4 that creates great difficulty for my pysche. The 5 in me yearns for independence, to be totally self-sufficient and to be left alone so I can enjoy my thoughts. The 5 in me is greedy and wants life on my terms...my space, my rules, my time, my money, my stuff...get out and let me be. The 4 in me craves union with another who can appreciate the beauty in the art of life that surrounds us. I don't especially have a desire to feel unique, I know I am unique but in a very lonely way. 

People with the 4/5 dominance probably struggle with the mind/heart dichotomy. Rather than being able to blend the two, they become two separate entities i.e. "This moment I need to use my heart, now I need to use my mind and never the twain shall meet". It has a feeling of the mind and heart being enemies that have agreed to keep the peace as long as each leaves the other alone. I have been at both healthy levels and unhealthy levels. At unhealthy levels I believe suicide is quite inevitable. The dissonance is just too profound...the mind and heart rally and end up destroying one another and as a result, take the body down.

The 1 is quite apparent in this tritype, I think. When you have the mind and heart battling it out, inevitably they will exhaust and the gut instinct takes charge. There is nothing like the superego of a type 1 to grab the wheel in chaos. What is "right" and what is "ethical" must be upheld with a passion and clarity unmatched. *Hopefully it will be for the good because I can see someone of this type with evil motives commanding an army "for the cause"*

Overall, the tritype descriptions are lame. I agree, they take one personality trait from each fix and throw them together in whichever order the tri happens to be and voila here you are. Reminds me of horoscopes in a way and I certainly don't like having the wool pulled over my eyes. 

My version of 5-4-1: march to their own drummer, loner, cerebral, sensitive, unique view of the world, honest, deep thinker


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## soya

PixieSaysHi said:


> Overall, the tritype descriptions are lame. I agree, they take one personality trait from each fix and throw them together in whichever order the tri happens to be and voila here you are. Reminds me of horoscopes in a way and I certainly don't like having the wool pulled over my eyes.
> 
> My version of 5-4-1: march to their own drummer, loner, cerebral, sensitive, unique view of the world, honest, deep thinker



Yeah, it took me a long time to realize I was a core 9 due to overly neat and contrived descriptions. Apparently 9 sx can be quite different than 9 sp (which is the "typical" 9 described)... plus, I have a strong 4 fix that skews a lot of the 9 traits. 

Maybe we should all try to write our own tritype descriptions (for our own tritypes) and compile them into a thread.


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## madhatter

phthalocyanine said:


> Maybe we should all try to write our own tritype descriptions (for our own tritypes) and compile them into a thread.


Go for it!


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## Vaka

PixieSaysHi said:


> This tritype in myself looks something like this: A longing loner who is DEEPLY passionate yet externally looks like an ice queen. There is a battle between the 5 and 4 that creates great difficulty for my pysche. The 5 in me yearns for independence, to be totally self-sufficient and to be left alone so I can enjoy my thoughts. The 5 in me is greedy and wants life on my terms...my space, my rules, my time, my money, my stuff...get out and let me be.


Sounds more sp/sx or something, I can relate to that and I am a 6, not a 5


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## Vaka

I really hate 6 stereotypes and 3-6-9 sterotypes...



madhatter said:


> 369 Mediator Archetype
> 
> 369
> 
> She said this is the type most likely to be able to be the chameleon and will be able to adjust themselves according to whomever they are around. Having the 3 relating types and the 3 primary types they can have the most difficulty pinpointing not only their tritype but their dominant strategy. She said they will almost always think they are 3s, because they will value success and will be inclined to adjust to fit a given situation. She said they need to stay engaged and have harmony to feel happy which is what causes the constant adjustment.


I don't feel able to adjust myself well, I don't even feel I really fit in, I don't even feel completely comfortable. I usually hide away from those things that make me uncomfortable and try to find things I can align myself with rather than align myself to things. I do, however, place value on getting through life, but it's much deeper than what is here. I place value on knowing what life is and what things 'really are'. I think the three in me makes me strive for doing something innovative with what I am interested in, but it's not the most important thing for me.



> They are most likely to fit into the cultural millieu of what is expected of them but that their life mission is to bring harmony and she calls this the true mediator archetype. She said they can be so focused on fitting in and belonging that they lose themeselves and forget to speak their personal truths for fear of not relating to others.


I do not care at all for harmony. I don't feel I fit what is expected of me culturally more than anyone else and in fact, I'm actually very individualistic and individualized. And instead of bringing harmony, I usually go for chaos. The way I might be able to fit that is with my social anxiety, but I don't really consider that 'myself'.



> Your emotional energy goes towards seeking attachments with ideas and others. You want to be bonded to people. You also want to create balance and are uncomfortable with extremes. You tend to see relationships as a part of yourself. Overall, you are positively identified with others and may have amnesia for the more difficult or negative aspects of your relationships.


I'm a huge loner, more reserved than most people who call themselves loners and I have no friends except for my girlfriend. I would like to find people who I can relate to and have deep friendships with them, but that's extremely hard. Otherwise, I can live without these. 'Uncomfortable with extremes' is completely laughable for me...I am an extreme person, pretty much only know extremes. And that's how I like it. I do want internal balance in some aspects, though. I am negatively identified with most people, pretty much. I do have a lot of passion for my interests and for beauty, perhaps that could go for the first line. 



> 3-6-9 - The Citizen
> 
> This tritype would be most characterized by being influenced by their society. They usually embody everything that their society is. They need to adapt in order to relieve tension and stress.


Least favorite...'the citizen'...
I think where my 6 comes in is that I avoid being influence by society, I am very rebellious in this way. It makes me anxious to think of how i might be being influenced mentally. I need to defy in order to relieve tension and stress in contrast with that.


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## PixieSaysHi

paranoid android: YOU sound like a 5w4! 

these tri types can be confusing to say the least. plus, there is a lot of overlap, too.


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## Mistshadow

Hmmm....
I think I might be 2-6-8. o.o
LET MEH HELP YOU


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## marzipan01

madhatter said:


> The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.
> 
> The sx 683 is a very dynamic 6. This tritype has consistently reported being predominantly counter-phobic. A true fighter this tritype goes the distance for others. This tritype with 6 dominant is very loyal, feisty and achievement oriented.
> 
> (3)-6-8 - The Reactive 3
> 3-(6)-8 - The Aggressive 6
> 3-6-(8) - The Normative 8
> 
> Characterized by confrontation. Immovably disagreeable. _*They stay firm in their direction and beliefs and won't let anyone but themselves change that.*_


Omg. Hahaha. That's so me. Okay, I think I've found my tritype.  lmao.


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## Mistshadow

> 268 – The Rescuer Archetype
> 
> This type is characterized by the issues they have with others. They tend to get easily frustrated with others. They want help others but they also want things to go their way. They have a 'let me help you' quality.
> 
> 268, 682, 826 - The Rescuer: By nature, you want to be in charge of your world and are attracted to the noble cause. You wish to shield others from harm and challenge what is unjust. You want to know the rules to feel safe to break them. Your life mission is to track the needs of the vulnerable and take action on their behalf. A true rescuer, you are happiest when you can use your people skills and desire to protect others to help those that feel alone, desperate and are in a crisis. Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with the pride of knowing how to help others that you may give unsolicited advice or meddle in the affairs of others. You over-give to others to be well-liked, which prevents a deeper connection to your true self. Your growing edge is to recognize that always rescuing others does not mean that you will always be liked and cared for in return, and that it may prevent them from learning how to care for themselves. True protection comes from listening to higher guidance and knowing when to assist others and when to let them learn for themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 269 and 268 are even more distinctively different. Both are helpful but there is nothing passive about the 268. The 269 is the gentle person archetype. The 268 is very take charge and is the true rescuer, EMT, helping the disadvantaged archetype. The 2 is connected to 8 already so if 8 is in the Tritype this Tritype may at first think that they are an 8.
> 
> I don't know at all how any specific three types--2/6/8 in this case-- act synergistically. But I do know that each of these at average to lower levels is very controlling in interpersonal relationships, very domineering (including the 6 due to the sx/so), highly reactive, and also explosive when they feel they aren't getting back what they 'deserve'. So my assumption was the obvious: that the synergy would lead to someone controlling to the point of suffocation and high drama.


Okay... yeah, that's me. Tritype 2-6-8


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## David Kamnitzer

Thank you SO much. This will be very helpful to me for many years. I just had my 20-year-old son trityped. He is a 926.
This will help me to assist his journey.

Blessings ... DK


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## madhatter

David Kamnitzer said:


> Thank you SO much. This will be very helpful to me for many years. I just had my 20-year-old son trityped. He is a 926.
> This will help me to assist his journey.
> 
> Blessings ... DK


You're welcome! I'm glad I could be of help.


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## David Kamnitzer

Madhatter, Do you know of anyone (besides me!) who is interested in having conversations around the opportunity and the trap that the Enneagram is?

I see great potential for the E as a tool for Transformation ... AND ... a great potential for ensnaring people in another limited box.

Sincerely,

Dr. David Kamnitzer


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## madhatter

David Kamnitzer said:


> Madhatter, Do you know of anyone (besides me!) who is interested in having conversations around the opportunity and the trap that the Enneagram is?
> 
> I see great potential for the E as a tool for Transformation ... AND ... a great potential for ensnaring people in another limited box.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Dr. David Kamnitzer


I would think any regulars in the Enneagram forum here would be interested in a good discussion of the Enneagram.


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## LibertyPrime

David Kamnitzer said:


> Madhatter, Do you know of anyone (besides me!) who is interested in having conversations around the opportunity and the trap that the Enneagram is?
> 
> I see great potential for the E as a tool for Transformation ... AND ... a great potential for ensnaring people in another limited box.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Dr. David Kamnitzer


Originally I was skeptical of the enneagram and I still try to "shoot down the holes" and see what holds up and what doesn't (same with the MBTI), but so far the theory has given me a lot and I had to recognize that it has some merit and there is some truth in it.

Well, if people use it wrong, then it is just a box. As I see it , the whole point is to recognize that we are struggling in a box, but the potential is there to break out and become healthier by connecting to those parts of ourselves that we neglected. The enneagram is dynamic, so we can. Once you know your type, you also become aware of the tendencies of the type and you can catch yourself, so you don't have to fall into behavior patterns that you don't like . The E lists the negative as well as the positive, so it is useful in that way. It is also useful to understand and relate to other people. You don't really need to type them, but recognizing what E type behavior it is and what they are struggling with can allow you to communicate better and understand their motivations better. The E shows the way once you type yourself correctly. I see it more as a guide or a map.

I wish my dad would have taken the time to understand me like you do with your son.


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## Malak

madhatter said:


> 135 The Technical Expert Archetype
> 
> The 135, 358, and 359 tritypes are naturally inclined to be tenacious and persistent.
> 
> The 361 is an incredibly discerning, focused and responsible type. She said they will be the most inclined to want to live up to a successful image by societal standards and to focus on duty in order to feel valuable. She called it the "true taskmaster" that is inclined to create structure and rules that others in society can follow and to implement them. She said the blindspot is that one can be so overly focused on the rules that they can loose touch with their own values and feelings in deference to what is acceptable or societally defined. This is the type at risk of becoming robotic (along with the 135). However the 351 is less relational than the 361.
> 
> 3-5-1 tritype: driven, self disciplined, success and image oriented (but the image is not one of flash. It's ALWAYS perfect and appropriate.)...discerning, self demanding and judgmental with a focus on control. Extremely productive and hardworking, she barely gives herself a break, but when she does it's like a huge release. It's always planned though...Highly intelligent and focused, but can be narrow-minded at times, even though she's capable of seeing other perspectives if she's convinced of the "rightness" of hers she will be harsh, critical and obstinate.
> 
> 135, 351, 531
> 
> If you are a 135, you are diligent, focused and knowledgeable. You want to be ethical, efficient and wise. Highly rational, you seek systems and procedures. Detail oriented, you like mathematical concepts and finding ways to breakdown and understand complex material. You are very precise and good with your hands.
> 
> Your life mission is to be focused and to use your powers of observation to achieve goals. A true technical expert, you feel happiest when you use your knowledge and precision skills to create, achieve and teach.
> 
> You can be so focused on what you perceive is accurate, effective and logical that you can appear to be cold and distant. Your attention to detail is so critical in your life that the key is to recognize that it governs your decisions.
> 
> 351...competent
> 
> all three Focused Responder Enneacards
> (Enneagram Types: 1, 3 & 5)
> You see yourself as controlled, disciplined, tenacious and pragmatic. You avoid error and sloppiness in your work and people who over-focus on their emotions. Naturally focused and perfectionistic, you like to set goals. You prefer to respond when you have had time to assess and evaluate.
> 
> 3-5-1 - The Objectivist
> 
> They conduct themselves in highly competent and rational manner. They usually know exactly how to reach their goals and work very diligently to reach those goals.
> 
> 5-1-3: Most scientific and remote Five. Most technical. Uncomfortable with intense feelings.
> 
> 1-3-5 : a rather ambitious, elitist and goal-oriented One, very hard-working and somewhat intellectually arrogant. They rarely show their feelings and therefore they usually seem cold and very self-assured. These Ones are generally well-read, well-mannered and quite intellectually refined: they like to impress others with their intelligence, wisdom and irreproachable work.
> usual subtypes: social, self-preserving, 1w9
> similar tritypes: 1-5-3, 3-1-5, 5-1-3
> flavours: competent, intellectual, ambitious and refined
> 
> 1-5-3 : usually introverted and elitist, prefer the scientific approach in nearly everything they do. These Ones appear colder and very self-certain but can be rather sensitive and fearful on the inside. Are afraid of failure and not meeting the expectations of others, mainly because they think they do not have enough resources for all their projects. They are hard-working, thorough and very meticulous and their work is usually impeccable. These Ones are particularly intellectual, knowledgeable and objective.
> usual subtypes: self-preserving, social 1w9
> similar tritypes: 1-3-5, 5-1-3, 3-1-5
> flavours: cerebral, scientific, meticulous and objective
> 
> 5-3-1: one of the most cold-blooded and self-controlled of the Fives, this tritype is remarkably efficient, hard-working and competent, although a little bit anal as well. They demand recognition for their contributions and are fairly concerned with their image and intellectual value. Somewhat self-righteous and impatient with others, they are however pragmatic and tactful enough not to compromise their goals by being too inflexible. These Fives are very clever, self-confident, perfectionist, arrogant and glacial.
> typical subtypes: social, self-preserving, 5w6
> similar tritypes: 5-1-3, 3-5-1
> flavours: cold, composed, efficient and self-important
> 
> 5-1-3: exacting, methodical, organized and fairly self-righteous, these Fives have a compulsive need for logic and order in their environment. They are hard-working and more practical and pragmatic than other Fives, focusing on the efficiency and improvement of the systems that interest them. They also enjoy and expect receiving the deserved recognition for their efforts, considering their time and involvement very precious. This tritype is one of the most cool-headed, rigid and self-controlled.
> typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w6
> similar tritypes: 5-3-1, 3-5-1, 1-5-3
> flavours: exigent, methodical, formal and efficient
> Employing mechanisms based on a feeling of competence. (1-3-5)
> 
> I would consider myself 531. This doesn't mean I read all the profiles and decided that I identify with each of these in this relative order, nor does it just mean that I seek knowledge, achievement, and rightness. Rather, I have found there to be my primary patterns of dealing with reality when I look across my lifespan. Also, when I get into ruts, it's usually governed by one of these three areas, with the type 5 being the primary problem. Most of my self-monitoring goes into watching the type 5 pattern play out on a day-to-day basis, but I also need to watch for type 3 problems with anything related to my self-image and type 1 problems with anything related to... well, "gut" stuff.
> 
> Basically, I see the 1-2-5 as tipping things, in the heart triad, towards the sort of self-sacrificial idealism of 1 -- but at the cost of competency preoccupation which 3 brings. A warmer, maybe less scientific person, who will more readily throw science out the window for the sake of helping others. Both Twos and Threes have a kind of workaholism, so I see that as persisting, but Threes work better alone, and I think the 1-3-5 is ultimately the more reclusive trifix combo, the scholar, the diligent student, the expert practitioner, whereas 1-2-5 is more like the field doctor, or medic, or veterinarian. Objective, but involved, and conscious of others. Maybe they do a lot of detailed work on their own, but they see themselves moreover as being in service of others. In some ways, 1-2-5 is a more "balanced" trifix/tritype. 1-3-5 gets overloaded with competency issues and comes out becoming too rigid, too logical for humanitarian work -- people seem too chaotic, 1-3-5's know their own abilities and studies best, so they stick with those. They aren't "by the book" but would rather write the book themselves. They suffer more from feeling that they lack the innate ability to help others, so they practice more, try to get ahead, prepare, theorize, get involved with projects that keep face-to-face interaction to a minimum, but want to get things just right. More perfectionist, more critical.
> 
> five with a one fix: focused, serious tone. critical outlook. theme of
> sacrifice, dissolves wholly into their projects.
> special interest in knowledge, skill, and discoveries
> to improve health, society, the future, and the like.
> concerned for others in the abstract; difficult to get
> close to.


I'm a 3-5-9. Where's my breakdown? =) I need more.....


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## madhatter

Malak said:


> I'm a 3-5-9. Where's my breakdown? =) I need more.....


http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...ype-archetype-descriptions-2.html#post1808381


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## Malak

madhatter said:


> http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...ype-archetype-descriptions-2.html#post1808381


Thank you!


----------



## sodden

madhatter said:


> This criticism, do you vocalize it? Or do you keep it to yourself?
> Are you passive, or passive-aggressive? Actually two distinct things.
> In what situations are you direct and blunt?


I tend to vocalize it, although I'm not usually critical of people directly in my life so much, more music, films, environmental destruction, etc. (Actually, I'm realizing I can be critical about people and complain about them to others. Not exactly proud of that...)

I'm passive, not passive aggressive. If I have a problem with someone or something I will mention it directly.

I am direct and blunt when I have a strong opinion or when I like someone or the above. Then I can't help but be obvious. I really have a hard time restraining it.


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## madhatter

brainheart said:


> I tend to vocalize it, although I'm not usually critical of people directly in my life so much, more music, films, environmental destruction, etc. (Actually, I'm realizing I can be critical about people and complain about them to others. Not exactly proud of that...)


Strikes me as 1-ish



> I'm passive, not passive aggressive. *If I have a problem with someone or something I will mention it directly.*


This strikes me as more assertive than passive. IMO, assertive is way better than both passive and passive aggressive. 



> I am direct and blunt when I have a strong opinion or when I like someone or the above. Then I can't help but be obvious. I really have a hard time restraining it.


This also strikes me as 1-ish. As a 9, I may have a strong opinion and say nothing. 

What do you think of the 145 description?


----------



## sodden

madhatter said:


> Strikes me as 1-ish
> 
> 
> 
> This strikes me as more assertive than passive. IMO, assertive is way better than both passive and passive aggressive.
> 
> 
> 
> This also strikes me as 1-ish. As a 9, I may have a strong opinion and say nothing.
> 
> What do you think of the 145 description?


Sometimes I have strong opinions and say nothing as well. For example, all the super bowl commercials were so lame but I didn't really say anything and everyone else was laughing and I had a very lonely- but elitist- 4w5 moment. But it was a big group. If it had been just a few people I would have been more inclined to say something.

This is the deal. Four has a connection to one as it is so it's hard to distinguish if it's just the connection or the connection and the gut type.

So... yes, there are many things in the 451 description I relate to, but it also seems a tad too cold and analytical. And maybe that's because my sexual variant heats me up a bit, or maybe it's because I have two reactive types in my tritype, or maybe it's because... I don't know. 

I should add that others have considered me to have a 451 tritype. I thought it was 459w8, and I've also considered 458, but... that might be too intense. I dunno.


----------



## madhatter

brainheart said:


> Sometimes I have strong opinions and say nothing as well. For example, all the super bowl commercials were so lame but I didn't really say anything and everyone else was laughing and I had a very lonely- but elitist- 4w5 moment. But it was a big group. If it had been just a few people I would have been more inclined to say something.
> 
> This is the deal. Four has a connection to one as it is so it's hard to distinguish if it's just the connection or the connection and the gut type.
> 
> So... yes, there are many things in the 451 description I relate to, but it also seems a tad too cold and analytical. And maybe that's because my sexual variant heats me up a bit, or maybe it's because I have two reactive types in my tritype, or maybe it's because... I don't know.
> 
> I should add that others have considered me to have a 451 tritype. I thought it was 459w8, and I've also considered 458, but... that might be too intense. I dunno.


Hmm, I know what you mean. From what you've written, I'm picking up 4-5-1w9. Now, as for the 4 connection to 1 check out this link. It goes into how the lines of connection manifest concretely. Personally, I think that if you have one of your lines of connection in your tritype, it serves to strengthen the connection. Instinctual variants may do this also. My connection to 3 is stronger because of the 3 in my tritype. 

Also remember, these are just secondary fixes in your tritype. They are not going to have the same impact or influence as your core type is. They merely nuance the core type.


----------



## sodden

@madhatter,

Yeah, I get what you're saying. Thanks for the help.


----------



## Fantastic Fantaseer

so what happens if you have 1 in your tri type twice?

and as a seperate question, what happens if both those 1 are wings?

is it possible for both to be core types with the 9 and or 2 being the wing insted? because for example, I'mma 9w1 5w6 2w1 I belive it was. is it possible for something like 1w9 5w6 1w2?


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## madhatter

Fantastic Fantaseer said:


> so what happens if you have 1 in your tri type twice?
> 
> and as a seperate question, what happens if both those 1 are wings?
> 
> is it possible for both to be core types with the 9 and or 2 being the wing insted? because for example, I'mma 9w1 5w6 2w1 I belive it was. is it possible for something like 1w9 5w6 1w2?


No, that's not possible either. One type from each center.


----------



## silmarillion

madhatter said:


> Yes, I do not particularly like any of the archetype names. It gives people an expectation or misconception of the type that turns them off to even considering the type. 479 is a particularly bad culprit..."Gentle Spirit". :dry: In my understanding, neither 4 or 7 are particularly gentle types, and to be honest, neither is 9.


The last thing I would call myself is a "gentle spirit". I can be quite rude and selfish. 4, 7 and 9 are gentle and friendly when at their best (like every other type) but not more than the others.


----------



## Fantastic Fantaseer

so 1 can't be the head type twice. but I am a 9w1 5w6 2w1. so does that double 1 wing mean anthing? does it mean I have extra strong 1 type influance in me? and does the fact that one 1 is the wing to a 9 and the other a wing to the 2 mean anything?


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## madhatter

Fantastic Fantaseer said:


> so 1 can't be the head type twice. but I am a 9w1 5w6 2w1. so does that double 1 wing mean anthing? does it mean I have extra strong 1 type influance in me? and does the fact that one 1 is the wing to a 9 and the other a wing to the 2 mean anything?


Oh for sure. Having w1 twice would have more influence over your type. @Scruffy calls it a "faux-1". The 2 w1s give the impression of having 1 in your type, even though you actually don't have a "real" 1.


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## Fantastic Fantaseer

cool, so it's almost like being a 951 or a 9512 then. thanks for the info!


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## SarcasticBlack

I'm a 459... wow. THANKS for posting! I've always wondered my tritype. Out of everything, that rang true... almost scary!


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## Owfin

I thirst... for more perspectives on being a 631. :mellow:

A lot of descriptions describe a 136. The 6 ones I have found are largely 613, except for the one paragraph here about 631. I know my tritype, I just want to see some other 631 opinions.


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## madhatter

Owfin said:


> I thirst... for more perspectives on being a 631. :mellow:
> 
> A lot of descriptions describe a 136. The 6 ones I have found are largely 613, except for the one paragraph here about 631. I know my tritype, I just want to see some other 631 opinions.


A lot of the "136" could just be referring to the general archetype, which would apply to core-6. I haven't re-read hardly any of these, so I'm not entirely sure. 

The more I study and think about tritype, the more I think that there's not much differentiation past the core type. For instance, the 1 and 3 serve the 6 and don't really have dominance over one another. But there certainly is a difference between a 136/163, a 361/316, and 613/631, and they really should have separate descriptions. 

But it is a daunting task. I can see why the Fauvres only did 27 archetypes. 27 x 3 is 81 descriptions, and if one wants to differentiate 6 types per archetype, it's 162! I've been planning on attacking the 81 thing...planning being the key word here lol. :/ I haven't quite decided how to approach it just yet. Once I come up with a pattern or schematic, I might put my plan into gear.


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## Seeker99

Thank you! This is definitely the most useful source of information that helped me figure out my tritype.  I think I'm a 946. And whaddayaknow, my username is the name of my archetype!


----------



## Ventricity

madhatter said:


> 458 –]
> 
> 5-4-8: more reactive and temperamental, such Fives find it harder to control their emotions than other tritypes. They are basically sensitive, reclusive and ingenious, occasionally indulging in (romantic) day-dreams and fantasies, but once in a while their fierce, visceral side reveals itself explosively and gets to surprise people who don’t know them well. These Fives are usually selfish and whimsical, considering themselves entitled to special treatment which they will sometimes claim aggressively. They are prone to mood swings and rage outbursts.
> typical subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 5w4
> similar tritypes: 5-8-4, 4-5-8
> flavours: innovative, temperamental, egocentric and intense
> 
> 5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary.
> typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
> similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4
> flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive


I think this is my type, but i also think it is sometimes described in overly negative ways. I don't think i'm egotistic at all, not socially at least (but maybe in a theoretical way, as i can sometimes discard other people's theories). I also think that these "emotional outbursts" must be unhealthy variants, because these kind of things are very much about what kind of values you have and how you are raised. It takes alot for me to get angry, and the only times i honestly can say i have "lashed out" is against bullies. In fact I quite enjoy being confrontational with bullies, online or in the real world.


----------



## Ace Face

madhatter said:


> (3)-7-1 - The Idealistic 3
> 3-(7)-1 - The Competent 7
> 3-7-(1) - The Aggressive 1
> 
> Pseudo-realist. They believe they know who they are and what the world is like. May suffer from delusions.


I's delusionals


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## madhatter

Ace Face said:


> I's delusionals


Tell us all something we don't already know, Ace Face. :wink:


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## WindowLicker

How are you guys all masters at MBTI, Enneagram and this tri-type stuff? Could you type me? 
I thought I might have been 6-3-1 but now I'm not sure.


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## madhatter

WindowLicker said:


> How are you guys all masters at MBTI, Enneagram and this tri-type stuff? Could you type me?
> I thought I might have been 6-3-1 but now I'm not sure.


Did you see the Questionnaire in the Enneagram Type Me forum? You should check it out.


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## madhatter

Nienna said:


> The thing is that I still don't grasp well how my head fix personally affects me, being the weakest one.


Your head fix and heart fix both serve your core type. With 7 as your head fix, it reinforces your core 9's natural tendency to be positive and optimistic. In addition, 7 gives you a bit more assertiveness, which counteracts the withdrawn nature of 9 and 4. 7 also reinforces 4, because they're both part of the frustration triad. What "frustration" means here is a sort of disappointed or disillusioned idealism. All the types in the frustration triad (1 being the last one) are searching for an ideal that they're never going to attain, but that doesn't stop them for continuing to search and seek after this ideal. This double frustration probably works against the 9's natural tendencies, and you may have trouble finding contentment in the present.


----------



## grmpf

Is there a way to test one's tritype or do you just take the highest scores from the three groups?
I took the test here in the forum (the quiz) but it seems a bit light to me...


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## aconite

grmpf said:


> Is there a way to test one's tritype or do you just take the highest scores from the three groups?
> I took the test here in the forum (the quiz) but it seems a bit light to me...


Well, the best way is to fill the questionnaire, ask for people's opinions AND and the same time analyse yourself  How do you behave when facing conflict? How do you deal with anxiety or fear? How about shame and self-image? etc.


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## kaleidoscope

I still can't figure out the difference between the 4-5-8, 4-6-8 and 4-7-8 tritypes  It seems like I have a little bit of each head fix.


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## madhatter

kaleidoscope said:


> I still can't figure out the difference between the 4-5-8, 4-6-8 and 4-7-8 tritypes  It seems like I have a little bit of each head fix.


type 5: emphasis on competency, withdrawn, and feeling rejected
type 6: reactive (i.e. wants to have emotions mirrored by others), compliant (to the superego), attaching (to their environment, authority, security, etc.)
type 7: positive outlook, assertive, and frustrated idealism


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## Spades

madhatter said:


> 379 Ambassador Archetype
> 
> 379, 739, 937 - The Ambassador: You like people and are outgoing, even if you are a bit shy. You are easygoing and seek comfort but strive for success and a feeling of personal importance. You are identified with what you do and achieve, but are *soft, gentle, and kind*. Your life mission is to find compassionate and effective ways to create change and bridge differences. A true ambassador of good will, you are happiest when you can help others become harmonious, build rapport, and develop their potential. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on what is positive that you can miss the wisdom that comes from experiencing and understanding negative emotions and end up creating conflict by avoiding it. Your growing edge is to recognize that your *need to keep the peace at all costs* and be what others want you to be to feel successful keeps you from knowing yourself. True self-awareness comes from listening to your higher self and being fully present in the moment.


How the *hell* does a tritype with *two* aggressive types have a description like this? I'm *trying* to consider this tritype for myself, but the description is just so off-putting, it's really difficult to take it seriously.

Anyway, don't mind the rant. It was geared toward the Fauvres. They need to stop pulling shit out of their asses.


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## madhatter

Spades said:


> How the *hell* does a tritype with *two* aggressive types have a description like this? I'm *trying* to consider this tritype for myself, but the description is just so off-putting, it's really difficult to take it seriously.
> 
> Anyway, don't mind the rant. It was geared toward the Fauvres. They need to stop pulling shit out of their asses.


Agreed. I have no idea. And I'm surprised that anything with 3 in it is described this way. I think the only way this would apply, would be if the person was core-9. Even then, I've heard 9s described as sweet and cuddly (which makes me want to barf), and while I love 9s, I know that they're actually not like this. 

I think this means I should get started on my own tritype description project...I keep putting it off. -_-


----------



## Spades

madhatter said:


> Agreed. I have no idea. And I'm surprised that anything with 3 in it is described this way. I think the only way this would apply, would be if the person was core-9. Even then, I've heard 9s described as sweet and cuddly (which makes me want to barf), and while I love 9s, I know that they're actually not like this.
> 
> I think this means I should get started on my own tritype description project...I keep putting it off. -_-


Yes yes, I agree! 90% of 9 descriptions sound 9w1. I was actually surprised to learn that 9w8's are outwardly expressive with their anger, which was a definite point toward me potentially having that fix.

I can't wait to see what descriptions you come up with... when you get to it! ^_^


----------



## NYEnglishRose

*You are a Type 9 with a 1 wing: "The Dreamer"*
Your tritype is 9w1, 5w6, 4w5.

In enneagram theory, you have one type for how you relate to the world (either 8, 9, or 1), one type for how you think (5, 6, 7) and one type for how you see yourself (2, 3, 4.) Your tri-type contains one number from each of these triads. They are listed in the order of how strongly they present in your personality. 

*Your core type (your strongest type) is Type 9 with a 1 wing:* Nines are receptive, easygoing, and loveable. Out of all the types in the Enneagram, they have a special ability to get along with others. For this reason, they’re often skilled mediators, resolving conflicts both within themselves and among others. Nines value peace, especially inner peace, very highly. When in a state of growth, Nines become energetic and driven like Type Threes. When stressed, Nines become anxious like an unhealthy Type Six. You are a Type Nine with a One wing, which means that the harmonious traits of the Type Nine merge with the idealistic nature of the Type One. You have an idealized view of the world, and your drive toward harmony is one way to fulfill that dream.

*Your second type (your next strongest type) is Type 5 with a 6 wing:* Type Five individuals are cerebral, intelligent, and complex. Type Five is often called the Investigator type, because they are constantly trying to learn more about the world. To a Five, knowledge is power, and knowing more about the world around them makes the world a safer place. It’s common for a Five to withdraw into their own thoughts and ruminate on intricate ideas and concepts. Type Fives, when they are in a growth state, become self-confident and authoritative like a Type Eight. When they are stressed, Type Fives become scattered like an unhealthy Type Seven. You are a Type Five with a Six wing, which means that the cerebral nature of a Type Five combines with the troubleshooting thought style of a Type Six. This makes Type 5w6 the Enneagram type of the stereotypical scientist – the 5w6 is always creating new ideas and testing them.

*Your third type (the least-used of the three) is Type 4 with a 5 wing:* Type Four individuals are intensely emotionally aware, and often retreat to their rich inner world of concepts and ideas. They are the most artistic type in the Enneagram and driven to create their own, unique identity. Type Fours value authenticity highly and express themselves whenever they can. They are one of the most individualistic types in the Enneagram. Type Fours, when in a state of growth, become principled like Type Ones. When stressed, Type Fours can become clingy like an unhealthy Type Two. You are a Type Four with a Five wing, which means that the individualist nature of a Four combines with the cerebral nature of a Five to make you one of the most creative types in the Enneagram.

Some words that describe you: relaxed, peaceful, harmonious, creative, unique, authentic, emotional, intelligent, cerebral, questioning.


----------



## NT the DC

Is there anything on 3-6-4 types? I didn't find it.


----------



## aconite

INTJ the DC said:


> Is there anything on 3-6-4 types? I didn't find it.


Because it's impossible. You can't have two types from one triad, you have to choose one from each:
- body (gut) - 1, 8, 9
- heart (image) - 2, 3, 4
- head - 5, 6, 7


----------



## NT the DC

aconite said:


> Because it's impossible. You can't have two types from one triad, you have to choose one from each:
> - body (gut) - 1, 8, 9
> - heart (image) - 2, 3, 4
> - head - 5, 6, 7


Really? I am not too keen on how it works. I thought you took the enneagram test and then you got your top 3 numbers and that was your tritype. Like mine for instance...the highest rated ones were 3-9-5 (which I notice is consistent with what you are saying). I had someone else do it and they said their highest rated ones were 3-6-4. Did they give me the wrong results..which would mean their results are impossible? Or did I give them the wrong instructions IE, should I have said: Of 1,8,9 which is the highest? Of 2,3,4 which is the highest? Of 5,6,7 which is the highest? And put those three numbers in order from highest to lowest.


----------



## aconite

INTJ the DC said:


> Or did I give them the wrong instructions IE, should I have said: Of 1,8,9 which is the highest? Of 2,3,4 which is the highest? Of 5,6,7 which is the highest? And put those three numbers in order from highest to lowest.


I think that tritype tests work like this, yeah - one type from each triad. Sometimes people have their top three scores in all three triads. Anyway, the tritype theory is explained here: http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...-instinctual-variants-sp-sx-so-explained.html


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## yesiknowbut

Interesting. By this I am definitely 738 rather than 638 which is what I had thought. Adding in wings, at 638 I was 6w7-3w2-8w7, so lots of 7 flavour. Hmm.....if wings aren't allowed I can't be a 6 as there is a big wide streak of 7 in me.....




...still don't get the enneagram, there seem to be as many systems as gurus to explain them.....


----------



## oomi

madhatter said:


> 359 Thinker Archetype
> 
> 359
> intellectual and clever, you find amiable and pleasant ways to manage difficult situations and relationships. often shy, you are slow to fully trust others and need time to more fully reveal yourself.
> 
> your life mission is to use your ability to unite opposing points of view, find compromise and create workable solutions. a true advocate (also, thinker), you are happiest when you can use your skills to be helpful and judicial.
> 
> your blind spot is that you can be so reserved that your true nature remains hidden and underexpressed which can cause you to appear aloof and indifferent. to feel in control, you may use withholding and punishment.
> 
> your growing edge is to recognize that your need to pull away and be a spectator before engaging denies you the opportunity to more fully be. true wisdom comes from following your higher guidance, revealing yourself to others and participating in life.
> 
> The 135, 358, and 359 tritypes are naturally inclined to be tenacious and persistent.
> I'd say that I show persistence in regard to goals and ideas, pursuing them until I'm satisfied I've learned all I can from a particular pursuit (3) or avenue of inquiry (5). And with people as well: I tend never to give up on people. I tend to avoid conflict and wait (often passively) for the other person to "come around." (9)
> 359s are very incognito for the most part....but the 3 wants the attention even if the 5 and 9 are reluctant.. It is an interesting dichotomy.
> 
> The 3,5 and 9 all conceal who they are in favor of who they think they need to be. 3 adapts to their environment to give us their best image, the 5 wants camouflage to hide detection to feel safe and the 9 wants to match their environment and go along to get along. The 359 needs to adjust to avoid detection and scrutiny.
> 
> the 359 is private and introspective and often pairs with a more assertive outgoing type like the 1 or 8.
> 
> I have to laugh as the 359s may not want to respond. They have reported a strong sensitivity to exposure.
> I think 3-5-9 may expose him or her self if it is done say in one's writing in the name of academic or theological inspiration to others. We might describe our Dark Nights; however, immediately rush ahead to the good part where we overcame the darkness with our keen and wise mind and all is hunky dory now.
> 
> Calling all 359s... do you notice the need to conceal your true feelings from others?
> I feel the need to conceal my true feelings from myself.
> I smile when I read this. It is amazing to me that other 359s have something very similar. I need to add that 359s have a great sense of humor that is dry and witty.
> The above is actually a true statement. I really have a difficult time with feelings. I feel things like enthusiasm, bursts of love and insight, and discomfort. There is a person in my life that makes me feel really upset. Instead of sadness or anger; whenever she comes around I get a migraine...
> Do we have feelings?
> Yes... or so I am told, tucked away in separate locked boxes.
> 
> ... [etc., etc.]


Thanks for this. I registered on this forum just to thank you.

I'm an INTJ 9-5-3, sp/so. Enneagram didn't make any sense to me until I came across this concept. People see "INTJ brainy nerd" and tell me "5w6". This made no sense to me. I'm so far from being a 6 or a 4, and the only reason "5" matches up at all is I'm a brainy nerd ... except, I don't care about being brainy.

The tests would emphasize 9 and 5 and 1 and 8 ... and 3. WTF?! No wings, except for the 9, in which case it's kind of both. Seeing this and reading this suddenly made Enneagram click, and explained the 3 and the 5, and of course the 9. And it resolved the weirdness of 9s stereotyped as mediators and peacemakers. Um, no. Peace for me, maybe, but I'm not going to try to solve others' quarrels: too annoying.

Anyway, I'd be happy to hear anything else you might find on this type (I think I've covered everything you've posted on this forum), or perhaps you could point out your sources so I could chase after those?

Thanks again!


----------



## madhatter

oomi said:


> Thanks for this. I registered on this forum just to thank you.
> 
> I'm an INTJ 9-5-3, sp/so. Enneagram didn't make any sense to me until I came across this concept. People see "INTJ brainy nerd" and tell me "5w6". This made no sense to me. I'm so far from being a 6 or a 4, and the only reason "5" matches up at all is I'm a brainy nerd ... except, I don't care about being brainy.
> 
> The tests would emphasize 9 and 5 and 1 and 8 ... and 3. WTF?! No wings, except for the 9, in which case it's kind of both. Seeing this and reading this suddenly made Enneagram click, and explained the 3 and the 5, and of course the 9. And it resolved the weirdness of 9s stereotyped as mediators and peacemakers. Um, no. Peace for me, maybe, but I'm not going to try to solve others' quarrels: too annoying.
> 
> Anyway, I'd be happy to hear anything else you might find on this type (I think I've covered everything you've posted on this forum), or perhaps you could point out your sources so I could chase after those?
> 
> Thanks again!


You're more than welcome! I'm glad it helped.

As for my sources, that would be difficult. I literally had to scourge the internet to find the information...there would be a tidbit here, and another chunk there, and so on. I got a lot of the information of the Enneagram Institute Discussion Board, and then the Fauvres' Facebook page. I also got some good info that scattered around this site, as well 10+ places. What's unfortunate about the tritype theory is that there is an extreme lack of information out there. You could look through those sites to see if there is any new information about 359 (I used CTRL+F a lot, so I wouldn't have to sift through as much). I occasionally google each of the tritype/archetypes to see if any new information has popped up, but I haven't done that in a long while. 

However, I have fairly good understanding of your tritype (I thought I was a 953 for a while and I did a lot of research into those three types), so if you have any more questions about it, run them by me, and I'll answer them as best as I can!


----------



## oomi

madhatter said:


> You're more than welcome! I'm glad it helped.
> 
> As for my sources, that would be difficult. I literally had to scourge the internet to find the information...there would be a tidbit here, and another chunk there, and so on. I got a lot of the information of the Enneagram Institute Discussion Board, and then the Fauvres' Facebook page. I also got some good info that scattered around this site, as well 10+ places. What's unfortunate about the tritype theory is that there is an extreme lack of information out there. You could look through those sites to see if there is any new information about 359 (I used CTRL+F a lot, so I wouldn't have to sift through as much). I occasionally google each of the tritype/archetypes to see if any new information has popped up, but I haven't done that in a long while.
> 
> However, I have fairly good understanding of your tritype (I thought I was a 953 for a while and I did a lot of research into those three types), so if you have any more questions about it, run them by me, and I'll answer them as best as I can!


Yeah, that's what I kind of thought. The nifty thing is that now THIS is the central repository.

How did you happen to resolve the 953 to the 593? What was the turning point that let you know for sure that 593 is correct?

For me, both 953 and 593 are possibilities, but there's one thing that says 9 over 5 for me: if you look at the integration/disintegration for the 9, I can see myself in levels 1-6: I see that those are the fears that will drive me if I let them. In the case of the type 5, I identify with 2-4. I really don't see myself obsessing with obtaining more knowledge to gain more control. No, if anything, I want to gain "mastery" so that I can find that peaceful balance with life. As such, I'm really good at all the things that 5s "do", but not their motivations. It was by following the 9 path of motivations that I overcame what fears I had. The 5 and 3 are just "tools" as it were.

Does this resonate with you at all? Mostly, I'd be interested in any insights that might suggest 5 over 9 in your experience.


----------



## madhatter

oomi said:


> Yeah, that's what I kind of thought. The nifty thing is that now THIS is the central repository.
> 
> How did you happen to resolve the 953 to the 593? What was the turning point that let you know for sure that 593 is correct?
> 
> For me, both 953 and 593 are possibilities, but there's one thing that says 9 over 5 for me: if you look at the integration/disintegration for the 9, I can see myself in levels 1-6: I see that those are the fears that will drive me if I let them. In the case of the type 5, I identify with 2-4. I really don't see myself obsessing with obtaining more knowledge to gain more control. No, if anything, I want to gain "mastery" so that I can find that peaceful balance with life. As such, I'm really good at all the things that 5s "do", but not their motivations. It was by following the 9 path of motivations that I overcame what fears I had. The 5 and 3 are just "tools" as it were.
> 
> Does this resonate with you at all? Mostly, I'd be interested in any insights that might suggest 5 over 9 in your experience.


I'm actually 583, but I relate a lot to the Thinker archetype. I switched from 9 to 5, because I realized that I had 5 motivations, not 9 motivations. And after I switched from 9 to 5, I reconsidered my gut-fix, 8w9 vs. 9w8, and after much introspection and discussion with other Enneagram enthusiasts, I settled on 8w9 as my gut-fix. 

Is maintaining your peace essential to you? What is your relationship with conflict? Do you find yourself merging with your environment or your loved ones' wants and desires and neglecting your own? 

Also, 5s seek knowledge because they feel incapable of dealing with the world. If you don't relate to this, you're probably not a core-5.

5 and 9 mistype as each other very often...they are both withdrawn types, and they look very much alike on the surface.


----------



## Destiny Lund

madhatter said:


> 278– The Free Spirit but they also identify with Humanitarian Archetype
> 
> 827 Caring and innovative 8. Most people-oriented 8. Likes to be in relationship. Gentle and helpful, especially with 9 wing.
> 
> 278 tritype, that personifies the outgoing, helpful and confident nature of that lively archetype.
> 
> (2)-7-8 - The Aggressive 2
> 2-(7)-8 - The Power-Seeking 7
> 2-7-(8) - The Positive 8
> 
> Very hardy individual and other-focused. Fun, charming, and sexual.
> 
> 278 is the most enthusiastic, joyful. positive and exuberant tritype. They are people focused and aim to please. They must help like the 126 but are their own authority and follow their own muse like the 478. They are gregarious and funny.
> 
> 278, 782, 827 - The Free Spirit: You like to use your charming, sunny disposition to create an upbeat, positive, and action-packed environment. You are also very nurturing to those in your circle of care. Your life mission is to be an instrument of change, transforming difficult situations into moments of inspiration. A true free spirit, you are happiest when you are on the go and helping others to learn to act on their own behalf. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on keeping everything positive and honest that you can be too aggressive and fail to recognize the importance of difficult emtions. You also keep busy and in motion to avoid painful feelings. Your growing edge is to recognize that you need to always be postivie, upbeat, and free can limit your ability to self reflect and fully be yourself. True happiness and joy come from being present to your higher self and experiencing all of your emotions.
> 
> eight with a two fix: the overtly magnanimous and big hearted eight. sacrificial-dominant
> style of relating to others; as protector, big spender, mama-bear
> quality.
> 
> 87?: Focused, intuitive, and innovative. Most assertive and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric, entrepreneurial 8 especially if sx.
> 
> The 827 is extremely positive, upbeat and helpful. They take charge but do so with a light touch that is sensitive to the needs of others. They are often humanitarians that focus on manifesting their vision..... Excess meets gluttony and pride... When the core fears of these three types unite it can create a defense strategy that is quite compassionate but can also struggle with issues of arrogance and/or pride about what they do.
> 
> *Most freedom loving-827, 278, 728




Hello! ^_^ I was wondering if anybody around here could assist me with a simple question concerning the above I quoted. I'm 728, I was wondering if its description was accidentally cut out or if 728 isn't cool enough to have a description? LOL! I see at the very bottom of the above quote mentions that 728 is of 1 of the most freedom-loving, yet it doesn't have a description as do the other related "7" tritypes. I just wasn't sure if this was purely a simple error & was accidentally cut out, or if there just isn't a description for 728 yet. THANX!


----------



## madhatter

Destiny Lund said:


> Hello! ^_^ I was wondering if anybody around here could assist me with a simple question concerning the above I quoted. I'm 728, I was wondering if its description was accidentally cut out or if 728 isn't cool enough to have a description? LOL! I see at the very bottom of the above quote mentions that 728 is of 1 of the most freedom-loving, yet it doesn't have a description as do the other related "7" tritypes. I just wasn't sure if this was purely a simple error & was accidentally cut out, or if there just isn't a description for 728 yet. THANX!


Anything that says 278, unless specified otherwise, refers to 278/287, 728/782, and 827/872...the 278 "archetype" is an umbrella term for these tritypes. 

728-specific information was not cut...none was found. There is a disclaimer in the OP saying that some of the descriptions are shorter than others, because of the lack of sources found on them. Unfortunately, 278 is one of the shorter descriptions. Some of the longer descriptions have more core-type-specific info. Sorry there's not more.


----------



## OhTHATgirl

Pride49 said:


> Hey! 4-5-8 is my type
> and I'm an INTJ MWA HA HA!!



we should know each other. 

I was diggin' on my friend who was 548 INTJ.
are you also 5w4? 
instinctual variant??


----------



## ENTP219

*please help me 'type'*

*would you say by looking at a pic this could be someone who's 3,7,8 ??* *(the guy) - & what about me - i scored as 7,dont know my tritype though...?? *

378,837,738 If you are the 378, you are ambitious, innovative and protective. You want to be efficient, happy and straight-forward. You are a dynamic go-getter, focused on the prize. An expansive powerhouse, you see the big picture and a positive future with the will to make it happen. Seeking success, obstacles are seen as competitive challenges. Your life mission is to see what is possible and find innovative ways to achieve your goals. A true mover and shaker, you are happiest when you are in a position of power to manifest your vision and make things happen. You need to be doing to feel alive. You can be so expeditious, assertive and results oriented that you miss your impact on others and the deeper meaning and significance of why you are doing what you are doing.


----------



## madhatter

ENTP219 said:


> *would you say by looking at a pic this could be someone who's 3,7,8 ??* *(the guy) - & what about me - i scored as 7,dont know my tritype though...?? *
> 
> 378,837,738 If you are the 378, you are ambitious, innovative and protective. You want to be efficient, happy and straight-forward. You are a dynamic go-getter, focused on the prize. An expansive powerhouse, you see the big picture and a positive future with the will to make it happen. Seeking success, obstacles are seen as competitive challenges. Your life mission is to see what is possible and find innovative ways to achieve your goals. A true mover and shaker, you are happiest when you are in a position of power to manifest your vision and make things happen. You need to be doing to feel alive. You can be so expeditious, assertive and results oriented that you miss your impact on others and the deeper meaning and significance of why you are doing what you are doing.
> 
> View attachment 54606


Hey, take a look at this questionnaire, fill it out in a new thread in the Enneagram type-me sub-forum, and there are tons of Enneagram enthusiasts who will be very willing to help you find your type.

Cheers!


----------



## Tater Tot

I really don't know what the heck I was talking about when I said I related more to 369 than 379



> a 379 would be a more reflective and considerate but also more indecisive and chameleon-like (and somewhat more withdrawn, at times) version of a 378.


 THIS RIGHT HURR


----------



## Entropic

*Analysis of being a 4-5-8: The Scholar*
I think this has been long due, but perhaps a necessary post for me to write. I have been thinking of my tritype a lot recently, both in terms of anger, my need for uniqueness and also my desire to be withdrawn and keep things at arm’s length. The way the 458 tritype works is that there is a strange synergy between all for fixation points, but the synergy is more of a convergence when all motivations line up and point towards one direction but in all other ways the motivations of each fixation work against each other, creating a sense of being scattered, chaotic, lack of focus, a mission and a purpose in life. 

What is common for all fixation points is a sense of lack or that something is missing. 4 lacks an identity to call its own, 5 lacks knowledge and competence and 8 lacks fulfillment and satisfaction. I would say this sense of lacking or missing something is one of the defining features of my life but looking back, and I think the Fauvres summarize the life purpose of 458 perfectly – I desire that which is innately human. One might wonder what “innately human” means and why it is that the 458 tritype out of all tritypes is the most likely to desire this and again, one must look at the sense of lack which stems from all fixation points. 

When studying the holy idea of 4 which is Holy Origin, we can see that 4 is driven by a need to belong and feel unity with the world at large but due to internal shame, does not feel one is worthy or desirable enough to do so. Similarly, the holy idea of 5, Holy Omniscience, is the desire to feel connected with the universe through knowledge. We desire to know all and by doing so, we have the power to do anything. However, just like 4s, there is a sense of being flawed and incomplete, this omniscience can never be reached or attained. Lastly, the holy idea of 8 is Holy Truth. Holy Truth is also a concept of unity, that all is one and one is all. It takes the idea of dualism and turns it into monism. Just like the 4, 8s feel that they are separated, it is them against the world and it is only by conquering the world that they can regain this sense of unity where all is one. 

What separates the types is thus how they manage this sense of loss and separation. The logic of 4 is that if I cannot have it, I will go my own way and become how I want to be to prove myself worthy. In a way, it is thus fair to say that 4s reject their desires by emphasizing their difference. 5 on the other hand, does it in an entirely opposite manner and thinks that if one cannot have it, then one has not done enough to prove one’s worth. We need to learn more and become better and once we reach a specific state of equilibrium we will finally attain the true knowledge and wisdom which we seek. There is specific overlap with how 8 deals with their sense of loss with 4 and 5 – 8 will also do things its own way. If you’re not with me you’re against me and I will prove that I can manage on my own in order to show you my worth. If you do not want me I do not need you either. In this sense it is easy to see how both 4 and 8 are reactive types. However, just like 5, 8 will actively seek out what it truly desires instead of rejecting and ignore those wishes like the 4 does. 

In the light of these fixation motivations, it is easy to see how 458 represents an inner feeling of ultimate loss and lack of belonging and more specifically so, that which is innately human. Innate humanity thus represents a desire for humanity itself. It is a craving to feel unity and belonging, because what unites all three fixation points is a feeling of not belonging. To 4, one is much too flawed to belong, a 5 is too stupid and incompetent to belong and 8 is too weak to belong. 

When looking at my own life philosophies, it is interesting how they reflect the holy ideas of 4, 5 and 8. I have for a very long time believed in unity, that we are all a part of something greater, bigger and better than this (4). I also believe in free will (4, 5 and 8) and believe that if we can know every aspect of something (5 and 8), we will be able to predict the future (5), but knowing the future gives us an ability to choose and act against these outcomes (8) and decide of what we want and who we want to be (4). I also ultimately believe in monism over dualism, and I think that concepts such as Yin and Yang merely represent two sides of the same coin (8), and it is only by examining all sides and realize how they are essential to each other that we can achieve greater wisdom that permeates time (5). 

So why is 458 being called the Scholar and not something else? I actually think the name of the tritype is part misleading because 458s aren’t necessarily scholars in the actual sense of the word. You will not always find a 458 in a dusty hallway studying old manuscripts of old and teach the wisdoms to other people although teaching wisdom is indeed an important aspect of 458 for reasons I will cover below. Instead, the word “scholar” refers to the 458’s search for eternal wisdom and knowledge about life and what it means to be alive and how the 458 will share this knowledge once such insight is attained. I was once called a sage by another member on Personality Café and what is interesting about the 458 is that while we may not always make a lot of fuss about ourselves depending on our core type, people are always willing to listen to what we say, perhaps because there is genuine truth and wisdom in our words because no person has struggled as much and spent as much time trying to understand the mysteries of life as a 458. When a 458 says something, we always do it with the intention of what we say is being useful. We do not say things for the sake of saying things because there is always meaning and intent in our words. 

Out of all the tritypes I’ve studied, there is also a strange feeling of loss carried by the 458 which can be gleaned in their manners, the way they think and talk and behave around others. A perfect and fairly known example of a 458 is professor Snape from the Harry Potter franchise. Dark, intense and brooding Snape seems to constantly be thrown between different kinds of extremities. This is because of how the different fixations constantly oppose each other in the tritype. 4 desires emotional intensity which is contrary to the nature of 5 that prefers emotional coldness because the world is much too dangerous and being emotionally cold is one of the defense mechanisms of how the 5 withdraws and maintains a distance, but 8 desires power, domination and control which is contrary to both 4 and 5 that are withdrawn types and rather introspect than dealing with the world directly. The nature of 8 also amplifies the emotionality of 4 due to how the 8’s passion of Lust manifests itself. The 458 can thus at one point be completely overcome by her feelings and flair of drama from the 4 fixation one moment, and then become incredibly aloof, uncaring and emotionally cold like a 5 the other, and this coldness is emphasized if the 8 influence is strong. These mood swings might not be apparent to an outsider however, especially if the 4 fixation has a 5 wing as showing overt displays of emotion is not in the nature of the 458, with the exception probably being if a sexual 4 subtype and with a possible 3 wing or strong 3 influence as 4w3s are more likely to wear their emotions on their sleeves than other types. If 5 has a 4 wing, the 458 might even appear as a 4 but this might not be known to outsiders who do not know the 458. 

The 458 is also a very withdrawn type and is perhaps the primary example of the lone wolf. Being double-withdrawn by having two withdrawn types in the tritype, it is probably hard to find an extroverted 458, although a strong social instinct can probably lessen the intensity and need to withdraw. If self-preservation or sexual, the 458 is probably likely to be extremely aloof, especially if core 4 or 5 just like Snape. If less healthy, the 458 can also be very grumpy, especially if the 8 influence is strong, and one might be reminded of such characters such as the Grinch or Mr. Scrooge who are probably both good examples of unhealthy 8s themselves. 

Being double-reactive, the 458 might sometimes suddenly explode for no real apparent reason and it might be hard for the 458 to back down from what is perceived as a slight on their character, specifically if that slight relates to their ability to be competent or is seen as an attack on their image, which can also and probably does often overlap with their sense of competence. If the 458 has a strong sexual instinct and is a core 5 or 8, it is also likely that the 458 can be incredibly competitive due to having two power types in the tritype. 

Another peculiar feature of 458 which is more related to the combination of 4 and 8, especially if the 4 has a 5 wing, is that the 458 seems to appear as uninterested, dissatisfied, to be scowling or right-out bored, especially if 5 is strong and the 458 is in what can probably be best described as observation-mode. They also probably be caught looking dreamy when they think no one will see them, and while the 458 tends to often have a very analytical and grounded approach to life, especially if the core 4 type is 4w5 or if core 5 or 8 with strong influence. This is because that while 458s inherently believe in that they are not worthy of their dreams going back to their feelings of lack, they deep down desire this unity with humanity and the cosmos no matter what and they might spend a lot of time trying to figure out what it is they actually want or desire in life and what life truly means to them. 

Despite their often projected tough exterior, especially if they are core 5s or 8s and are men, probably even more so if sexual or self-preservation first, 458s are extremely sensitive and emotional. They can be very cynical and maybe even right-out misanthropic but deep down they still want to believe in that there is genuine goodness in the world. If the 8 influence is strong, they might even over-emphasize their non-good aspects of themselves in combination with 4 of not being worthy: “I’m a bad person and I know it and it will not change because it is who I am”. The qualities of 8 become a part of the 4 image. 

Fiercely loyal, the 458 while hard to befriend is a friend you have for life. One ought to be reminded of Snape’s undying love for Lily and how he was willing to do anything for her. This is part because once the 458 has found the representation of innate humanity, we will do everything in our might to chase it and have it back. Especially if we lost it which we are bound to do. There is thus a tendency for the 458 to idealize and mythologize this aspect of innate humanity, especially if it represents another object or another person. Perhaps one can part trace this to the 8’s notion of innocence, but it is also most definitely coupled with the 4’s need for acceptance and the 5’s need to be at peace of mind. If one is just in possession of this innate humanity (does not mean that the 458 must perceive herself as human though), all problems will be solved and one will finally be at peace with oneself and the world and achieve ultimate happiness. 

The 458 is a complex tritype and while there is commonality in the fixation motivations, their different drives and powers creates a person prone to extreme mood swings and is highly independent due to 4, 5 and 8 all being types that are unlikely to value human connection, especially if social last. While they may appear as gloomy and quirky and sometimes even right-out mean and destructive, not only to oneself but also towards others, the 458 is in possession of a specific type of wisdom in the pursuit to find innate humanity and has a strong desire to share these findings with others. Being incredibly stubborn, it is unlikely that the 458 will give up in the chase for knowledge and wisdom despite what logic tells them to, and they will most likely not listen to you no matter how good your advice is, because the 458 is in control of her own mind and body and is unlikely to listen to what other tell her to do and will resist if she experiences a risk of being dominated and controlled, especially if 5w4 for head and 4w5 for image.


----------



## SherlyDEDUCE

madhatter said:


> I see many more 548s than 538s


Oh yeahh, we're special.

Yeah, I'm an INTJ, too.

BWAHAHAHA


----------



## madhatter

SherlyDEDUCE said:


> Oh yeahh, we're special.
> 
> Yeah, I'm an INTJ, too.
> 
> BWAHAHAHA


Do you mean 538s are special or 548s?


----------



## All in Twilight

Double thanks!


----------



## SherlyDEDUCE

madhatter said:


> Do you mean 538s are special or 548s?


I'm a 538.


----------



## madhatter

SherlyDEDUCE said:


> I'm a 538.


Haha, okay. Sorry, I couldn't remember which one you were! :wink: 

I'm a faux-538...meaning that I'm 539w8 with strong 8-ish tendencies.


----------



## Animal

SherlyDEDUCE said:


> I'm a 538.


Hello 538. I'm 385.


----------



## Cassieopeia

Me: 925 sx/sp Problem-Solver
Mom: 278 sx/sp Free Spirit
Dad: 279 sx/so Peacemaker
Brother: 792 so/sx Peacemaker
Brother: 793 so/sp Ambassador
Grandma: 629 sp/so Good Samaritan
Grandpa: 863 so/sp Justice-Fighter
Best friend: 174 so/sx Visionary

I think. Hmm

Everybody in my immediate family is a head type 7 but me. Makes sense


----------



## VamPie

I have problems with those descriptions and with tritype theory in general... I mean most of those descriptions seem to give a lot of meaning to other elements of tritype, to the point where you no longer seem like a dominating type.
And I'm surprised, from what I know about enneagram types, I would expect other elements to have a different influence on the main type than in description.

Also, how it's possible than in all 5 tritypes only like 4 are positively described and the rest is described very negatively? It doesn't look objective to me.


----------



## madhatter

VamPie said:


> I have problems with those descriptions and with tritype theory in general... I mean most of those descriptions seem to give a lot of meaning to other elements of tritype, to the point where you no longer seem like a dominating type.
> And I'm surprised, from what I know about enneagram types, I would expect other elements to have a different influence on the main type than in description.
> 
> Also, how it's possible than in all 5 tritypes only like 4 are positively described and the rest is described very negatively? It doesn't look objective to me.


You have some good points. I agree with you, except for the part about tritype theory in general. I really like the idea of the tritype. But you're right...these descriptions are pretty bad. I actually tell anybody who will listen not to use these descriptions for any serious typing or for any kind of type confirmation. They're one-sided and misleading. I would really pay them no mind. Most of the time, I really regret posting them unedited. 

My theory of tritype/trifix/whatever is different from those who wrote most of these descriptions. I believe that the core is most part aspect of your type for growth. If you cannot be your type without using tritype to explain why you're that type, you're doing something wrong. Anyone who is doing this really needs to reanalyze their core type. The other two fixes are only meant to add subtypes to the core. They are supplementary. I like how the tritype represents the fact that humans are complex individuals that having many different motivations, sometimes contradicting each other. (Not that everything about people can be explained away by personality typologies, nor should it be.) I am a core-5 with all the problems and motivations that come with it, but how I deal with conflict and how I deal with image may differ from the standard representation of 5. It's certainly not 1+1+1 in strength, but to understand my tritype of 5-3-9, I need to know more than just some cookie-cutter adjectives about each of these types. 

One method I like using besides just studying the Enneagram in depth (which is the first recommended method) is the triads. Have you heard of these...Hornevian, Harmonic, Object Relations? What I like about these is that they show the different influences the secondary fixes can have on the core type...how they can either emphasize a particular aspect already existing in the core, or work against some natural tendencies of the core. My 5-3-9 tritype could be described as the "attaching" 5, because I have two types from the attachment triad (3 and 9) that work against my natural Rejection orientation. I'm still detached, chronically so, and I still reject the world, but the 3-fix and the 9-fix make me painfully aware of it.


----------



## VamPie

madhatter said:


> One method I like using besides just studying the Enneagram in depth (which is the first recommended method) is the triads. Have you heard of these...Hornevian, Harmonic, Object Relations? What I like about these is that they show the different influences the secondary fixes can have on the core type...how they can either emphasize a particular aspect already existing in the core, or work against some natural tendencies of the core. My 5-3-9 tritype could be described as the "attaching" 5, because I have two types from the attachment triad (3 and 9) that work against my natural Rejection orientation. I'm still detached, chronically so, and I still reject the world, but the 3-fix and the 9-fix make me painfully aware of it.


Interesting.

I always have high 8 results in tests, as well as I feel strong integration line with 8 - not that I'm really eightish inside. I also often score high in 9, but I feel more in common with 3. Of course I may be wrong. I doubt in other types, but I guess there may be aspects of 4, 2 or 1 I don't realise.

Hornevian: Obviously withdrawn is my main social style. I think the other is assertive, I'm pretty assertive. I still think it's a five trait, but many people may not realise that because of stereotyping. Compliant style seems most foreign to me, though I can work in groups etc.

Harmonic:
Competent most of the time + reactive, especially in trouble. I do see positive outlook influence as well, but for me that's unhealthy thing. When I do it I know something is wrong.

Object relations:
None. They all sound crazy. And biased. I don't know what people have with this silly idea that 5s have no feelings. It's just as silly as if I said that twos have no thoughts. Those descriptions sound very dramatic 
If anything that would be something between 7, 1 and 3, but not any of them fully.


I'm still inclined to think, that if any that would be 8 and 3 , maybe 8 and 2 or 3 and 9, but I don't really see why there should be no 8


----------



## madhatter

VamPie said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I always have high 8 results in tests, as well as I feel strong integration line with 8 - not that I'm really eightish inside. I also often score high in 9, but I feel more in common with 3. Of course I may be wrong. I doubt in other types, but I guess there may be aspects of 4, 2 or 1 I don't realise.


Yeah, I have a strong connection to 8 as well. But I've concluded that it's integration for me. 9w8 is my gut-fix, and the 8-wing is pretty strong, strong enough that I've thought my gut fix is 8w9. 

It makes sense to relate more to 3. As a 5, you share the competency triad with 3.

And, 1, 2, and 4 are the types I relate to the least. XD 



> Hornevian: Obviously withdrawn is my main social style. I think the other is assertive, I'm pretty assertive. I still think it's a five trait, but many people may not realise that because of stereotyping. Compliant style seems most foreign to me, though I can work in groups etc.


Oh yeah, people forget that withdrawn does not equate to shy. I remember in my less healthy days, I could be down right caustic with my opinions. I try to work on that now. 

I have no compliant types in me whatsoever. Another name I like for this triad is the superego triad...it makes it sound less "walk-all-over-me", which, knowing superego/compliant types, would be a grave miscalculation to try.



> Harmonic:
> Competent most of the time + reactive, especially in trouble. I do see positive outlook influence as well, but for me that's unhealthy thing. When I do it I know something is wrong.


Hm, thanks. Something you said here has sparked an idea, but I'm going to need to observe and test it first before I roll it out there. XD



> Object relations:
> None. They all sound crazy. And biased. I don't know what people have with this silly idea that 5s have no feelings. It's just as silly as if I said that twos have no thoughts. Those descriptions sound very dramatic
> If anything that would be something between 7, 1 and 3, but not any of them fully.


Agreed, haha. Not the best descriptions, but I like them, because they are the "cliff notes". Here is another link about object relations that might be better, but you be the judge of that!



> I'm still inclined to think, that if any that would be 8 and 3 , maybe 8 and 2 or 3 and 9, but I don't really see why there should be no 8


You mean tritype-wise?


----------



## VamPie

madhatter said:


> You mean tritype-wise?


Yes, because I'm sure I'm a five.


----------



## madhatter

VamPie said:


> Yes, because I'm sure I'm a five.


Oh okay, so if you were to pick a tritype, it would be like 582/583/etc.?


----------



## VamPie

madhatter said:


> Agreed, haha. Not the best descriptions, but I like them, because they are the "cliff notes". Here is another link about object relations that might be better, but you be the judge of that!


It's still too Freudian and too biased to me. Somehow I suspect that the author didn't belong to frustration-based group... Still 1,7 and 3 (not necessarily in this order), but where's five? Five's description sounds so outlandish than I automatically wonder about other descriptions, especially in rejection-based group. 

When it comes to five, I don't think five cuts the feelings off, five analyses them and tries to manage them, which is very different than cutting off. One can't really cut off feelings, one has either go through them or deny them. Some types deny feelings (only those feelings they don't accept), but do fives do it? I don't think so. That's why I think this description greatly misunderstands five's core. 

Many twos I knew looked like they kinda played the victim role, but not fully. I think twos aren't that one sided, they have an aspect of self-worth and attention seeking. Eights also seem to have a feeling of self-worth. And I don't really like that idea of 'offering' something to the world, I think there is some mistake here. Maybe this whole section is misunderstood. I don't know enough about twos and eights to see what those three types have in common.

But if we are to stick with rejection, I'd say those types found their ways to deal with rejection, which is not 'offering' something, but rather ways to sneak around rejection or prevent it from being harmful. Maybe something like: twos have a way of weakening rejection by finding new people or preparing a supportive environment, so that rejection is 'softened'. Eights would fight against rejection maybe... and fives would try to prevent it by caution (observing, analysing, withdrawal). Because I really don't see how those three types would be more giving and trying to 'offer' something more than the rest.


----------



## VamPie

madhatter said:


> Oh okay, so if you were to pick a tritype, it would be like 582/583/etc.?


That would be what I would pick based on what I know about enneagram types. But I'd also like to know how exactly those other types are supposed to influence the main type, to be sure I get it right.


----------



## Master Mind

oomi said:


> you need to be sure of your main type first, which explains your internal motivations, and the other two types tend to describe you in a more superficial way.


Exactly. People need to ascertain and be certain about their core type before getting into tritypes. I think people are doing themselves a disaervice by jumping directly into tritypes before they even have any idea as to their core type. Think of it as say, material you'd learn about in an intermediate class, but you can't skip over the stuff you need to know in the beginner's class before you even get there. (And is a prerequisite for the class. You can't even take the intermediate class until you've passed the beginner's class.)


----------



## aconite

Unless you're me... and get your tritype right at the first attempt, but not the core 

(hey, I think I have strong influences from all three fixes)


----------



## Dauntless

madhatter said:


> 469 Seeker Archetype
> 
> 469
> 
> If you are 469, you are intuitive, inquisitive and accepting. You want to be original, certain and peaceful. You are a very sensitive and can experience intense feelings of self-doubt and uncertainty. As a result you need multiple sources of confirmation. You want to be individualistic but can fear being separate from others.
> 
> Your life mission is to raise the questions pertaining to the mysteries of life and share your findings with others. A true seeker, you are happiest when you feel you can answer the question of who you are.
> 
> You can be so focused on your feelings, insecurities and doubts that you can feel paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong decision and of being misled or duped.
> 
> The 469 is a seeker with a lot of self doubt. There is always more to learn when you are this tritype but the desire is to develop a philosophy. the 6 and 4 have the most self doubt along with the 9. The 4 doubts their feelings, the 6 their thoughts. 6s want reassurance, 4s want praise to offset their natural tendency to be shame sensitive. The 4 leading is more concerned with the Who am I question and hopes to 'someday' have that answered through constant introspection and referencing their own feelings. I can only speak from my own lens and say that the 6 leading is less identity focused. Who Am I doesn't enter the picture like the 4, and less reliance on needing to set themselves apart to resolve the philosophical dilemma.
> 
> ...the 6 will stereotypically give 469 some sort of orientation around associations to ease anxiety...469 will have more of a push-pull reaction pattern with authority in staving off inner anxiety.
> 
> The 9 or 4 with the 469 tritype has the 3 types that feel doubt. Doubt breeds insecurity which increases anxiety. The gift of this tritype is the ability to search for meaning. What begins as doubt ultimates brings a great deal of knowledge that can lead to greater understanding.
> 
> The sx 469s want the security of that comes with a trusted relationship. Grief can feel overwhelming and many have shared feeling flooded. They also report that grief brings up fear.
> 
> Both the 469 and 269 tend to be passive. The 269 is more engraciating. The 469 is more aloof.
> 
> The 468 reacts and rings the alarm to prevent making a mistake to calm down and the 469 doubts and procrastinates to avoid making a mistake.... To calm down.
> 
> The 469 is very gentle unless threatened.They are very out of touch with their gut! The struggle is with doubt and inaction.
> 
> 9s fear being in conflict. 479 vs 469. Look at the level of confidence and optimism. The 7 brings a light touch with magical thinking, hoping for the best. In contrast, the 6 brings support and loyalty. Both are highly intuitive but the 469 has more doubts - The 479 is more future oriented, focusing on the possibilities. The 469 is more dutiful with a heavier heart, fearing that they can't make enough of a difference.
> ‎469s report a fear of making ten wrong decision and then having feelings of painful self consciousness and shame for having done so.... But also for not making a decision.
> 
> If 6 is dominant in the 469 tritype, there are more obvious fears and concerns. However, 946 and 469 are equally troubled by insecurities.
> All 3 types have a little paralysis through analysis. And all 3 hate conflict. ) The 469 experiences extreme self doubt and hesitates more than other 4s. It is a shy 4 but they do have their own opinions...they are just reluctant to voice them. The 649 has the greatest difficulty trusting their own thoughts and tends to seek multiple confirmations before making decisions. The 964 is plagued with indecision too and can look like a 6 but they are not as inclined to seek opinions from others. They just avoid the conflict hoping it will resolve itself.
> 
> The 469 is the most doubting tritype regardless which type is in charge. It is also the tritype that most struggles with a constant sense of self. They can also be somewhat passive. The only tritype more passive is the 269. The 269 is happier in presentation.
> 
> Regarding doubt for the 469: I think Katherine said that the 4 has self-doubt, the 6 doubts themselves and others and the 9 has the believer/doubter dichotomy.
> 
> the 649 (or 469 964) want peace harmony and gentleness. They are sensitive and doesn't know what to trust and in particular doesn't know what to trust in themselves. She stated that the 6 is more often than not phobic and needs multiple sources of confirmation and information. They don't feel they can rebound from emotional pain so they tend to avoid it through the questioning process and end up finding more questions.
> 
> 469 is going to have more difficulty being separate from others. More shame and anxiety about being different. There would be more checking in with others.
> 
> (4)-6-9 - The Normative 4
> 4-(6)-9 - The Withdrawn 6
> 4-6-(9) - The Reactive 9
> 
> This tritype has many self-confidence problems. They may often feel as though they need help from others, but that they are unable to get it. They fight between needing others and striving for seclusion.
> 
> 6-4-9
> Accepting and intuitive, most emotional and passive, can think they are a 2 or a sexual subtype. Most doubting 6.
> 
> This will often explain why non 6s that are not self-preserving wonder why they run high anxiety. For example, the 9 or 4 with the 469 tritype has the 3 types that feel doubt. Doubt breeds insecurity which increases anxiety. The gift of this tritype is the ability to search for meaning. What begins as doubt ultimates brings a great deal of knowledge that can lead to greater understanding.
> 
> 946: Intuitive and inquisitive 9. Most inclined to hesitate and feel doubt and uncertainty. Most gentle, passive 9. High anxiety.
> 
> When the 4 and 6 are in the tritype there is more negativity as a strategy to prevent making a mistake that will bring shame, blame and criticism. This is most true of the 461 and then 468 and then the 469.
> 
> 649 The Seeker. Accepting and intuitive 6. This is the most emotional and accommodating 6. This 6 has the most self-doubt and uncertainty and often seeks multiple sources of confirmation before making a decision. This 6 is very sensitive, and can be mistaken for a 4 or 2.
> 
> The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, targeted, chaos, conflict, being loveless, complication, discord, being shutout, inharmonious, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, being abandoned.
> 
> Anxiety and worry increase with the 1 and doubt and uncertainty with the 9. Examine your motivations rather than your behaviors. This is especially difficult for the 6, but more so for the 649 as all 3 types tend to doubt as a defense strategy. This is the Tritype that is most reluctant to take a stand for their "own" opinion until they are angry. The 641 has all 3 types that fear making a mistake and being at risk for having done so. They tend to be more likely to show frustration and to correct and instruct others ( especially for the so 641).
> 
> your descriptions sound more like sp1 in the gut. As a sp6 you have a natural iine of connection to sp9. Research has shown that you move to your wings and lines of connection with the same dominant instinct running the show. When your sp6 moves to sp9 and sp3 it is momentary and adding to you sp6. When you shift in your tritype your sp6 shifts to the 1 for solutions and runs all permutations of the 1 driven by the needs and concerns of the self-pres. The confusion may be that sp1 worries much like a 6 but the focus is on improving. So your instinct may have made it more difficult to land on the 614. Take your time. The 694 is much more hidden and inhibited. The 641 is focused on the perfecting and refining...getting it right.
> 
> Both 4s and 6s can be emotional. The questions is what are you emotional about? In terms of difficult behaviors...
> 6s identify a source to prove
> 4s identify a source to impress
> 649 doubting, insecure
> 
> I'm 649 too...some days 469, and some 964
> My mind automatically scans for rejection, conflict, and inclusion/exclusion, whenever I'm focusing on *me* (for example putting myself 'out there' with my music - which is my absolute heart and soul). Whenever my self and esteem and worth is on the line, whenever I've made a personal *effort* to engage or simply self-express to others, I'm basically a wreck.
> However if attention is not on me, I'm fine...often one with nature, internalizing the world, being receptive and in touch with my inner self, entertaining myself with my mind, desires, fantasy...I can do that in my own privacy and on my own terms and I'm happy to not need others. But I'm too often pulled to find myself in the world (and show myself to it) to stay isolated for long. I can (and often do) get passive and can let a lot of years go by spinning on the same ungroundedness, not really pushing myself out there for fear of rejection and not being what I envision myself to be (wish to be). I have a lot of 'go along' energy that I fall back on when I need emotional and psychic rest.
> 
> I think my tritype is 469. It particularly plays itself out in the social realm via shame, feeling utterly different, feeling hunted when very insecure (with no real external evidence to back the feeling up) and then by succumbing to a desire to merge with the group by lying down and playing 'dead' like a puppy. The merging brings short-term relief until my need to express myself takes over. If I can't I feel sickened by my lack of authenticity, if I can I do which opens me up to feeling exposed and ashamed again so I withdraw to avoid feeling hunted.
> 
> The sx with 4 brings emotional intensity and a need for closeness with desired intimates...and, there is anger if intimacy is thwarted or denied. The 468 is impulsive and highly reactive... the focus is on immediate resolution. The 469 feels a great deal of doubt and in general is not as reactive. There is more of a tendency to hesitate, plan and prepare with more anxiety.
> 
> The 469 is more phobic than the 468.
> 
> The 649 ponders...thinks and rethinks. They are introspective like the 459...just more people oriented. Their shame is in making a mistake...they must get it right like the 461 but do not feel that they can easily say their opinion our loud due to a fear that they might make a mistake.
> As 4 is dominant, in addition to seeing themselves as intuitive and deep with a need for beauty and aesthetics....The 479s see themselves as loving, innovative and gentle, the 468 as intense and iconoclastic and the 469 as thoughtful and introspective.


This 469 thanks you for this post.


----------



## mostafa.abdrabbu

Thanks for this thread

631 Is here !


----------



## Naia68

@_madhatter_ - This is fabulous information! Thank you! Would you please clarify the difference between 495 and 459?

I think I figured it out: 495 would be more peaceful/compassionate; 459 would be more intellectual.


----------



## bromide

@madhatter, thank you for making this thread. I've referred to it a lot, it actually helped me realize that my tritype was out of order, I am a 152, not a 512


----------



## madhatter

Naia68 said:


> madhatter - This is fabulous information! Thank you! Would you please clarify the difference between 495 and 459?
> 
> I think I figured it out: 495 would be more peaceful/compassionate; 459 would be more intellectual.


You're welcome. Honestly, I don't think there is much difference between 495 and 459, since both are core-4. In my own personal theory about tritypes, ordering does not matter after the core. So you'll see me refer to myself as both 539 and 593, since the 3 and 9 both serve the agenda of the core-5 equally.


----------



## tanstaafl28

How about a 582/528?


----------



## madhatter

tanstaafl28 said:


> How about a 582/528?


What about them?


----------



## tanstaafl28

madhatter said:


> What about them?


How do they differ from one another?


----------



## madhatter

tanstaafl28 said:


> How do they differ from one another?


I really don't think 582 and 528 differ that much from each other at all, not significantly. It's more a nuance of the type, more than anything. I think it really depends on each individual. In my own tritype, I don't think that either the 3-fix or 9-fix has dominance over the other. But when people talk to me, they often see the 3-fix before the 9-fix. I actually have to explain to people why I have a 9-fix, because at first, they don't believe me...I look very 8w9 sometimes. That could imply that the 3-fix has a little more prominence, making my tritype 539. There is a significant difference between me and say, @Flatliner, who is 59x, and whose image-fix is so weak in comparison, it's hard to even detect it sometimes. But the important thing is that we're both core-5s and everything is filtered through that. To see this difference between us, it took a lot of discussion and digging. But the similarities are stronger than the differences.

So, if there is a difference between 528 and 582, it is very subtle.


----------



## tanstaafl28

All I know for sure is that I am sort of ambiverted, I have a strong desire to help others achieve their best, and I cannot stand to see the strong pick on the weak.


----------



## madhatter

tanstaafl28 said:


> All I know for sure is that I am sort of ambiverted, I have a strong desire to help others achieve their best, and I cannot stand to see the strong pick on the weak.


Have you read the description for 258 yet?


----------



## tanstaafl28

Of course I have, I just wanted to know if the fix changed anything.


----------



## madhatter

tanstaafl28 said:


> Of course I have, I just wanted to know if the fix changed anything.


Like I said, it really depends on each individual. At this level of just trying to differentiate between 582 and 528, I personally believe it doesn't change much (but that might just be that my 3 and 9 are fairly equal to each other). There are other theories about this, one being that the ordering dictates how you use them. For instance, if 5 methods fail, a 582 would use 8 tactics next, then 2 tactics, and a 528 vice versa. I don't think this is the case though. Another is that the ordering must be clockwise, 5-8-2, and that 528 ordering is not possible. This latter concept is absurd to me. My personal theory, I see tritype as a pyramid, the core being the most important and most prominent, and two other fixes supporting it, while not being that differentiated in themselves.

For your own personal ordering, do you feel more of a 8 influence or a 2 influence? Do you feel that you use one more than the other or one is more prominent in your tritype? Or do you think similarly to me, that the 8 and 2 are not dominant over each other?


----------



## tanstaafl28

Your questions are interesting. I wonder if the two don't somehow "cancel" each other out a little. Is that possible?


----------



## Inguz

How is 458 more intense than 468 or 478?


----------



## Naia68

Inguz said:


> How is 458 more intense than 468 or 478?


My guess is that the 458 is more "intense" in the sense of being more withdrawn. The 468 and 478 would be more outgoing.


----------



## madhatter

tanstaafl28 said:


> Your questions are interesting. I wonder if the two don't somehow "cancel" each other out a little. Is that possible?


I don't know about "canceling" each other out...I don't think so. In fact, I think it would be the opposite...being 582 makes you triple rejection. The 8 and 2 reinforce the 5's natural rejection tendencies.


----------



## madhatter

Inguz said:


> How is 458 more intense than 468 or 478?


I have no idea. That sort of phrase makes me wish I had edited these descriptions or at least written some commentary on them. I might still do something like that.


----------



## Entropic

madhatter said:


> I have no idea. That sort of phrase makes me wish I had edited these descriptions or at least written some commentary on them. I might still do something like that.


I think it's not withdrawn-ness as much as I think self-focus that makes it intense, but it's speculation. I presume most of the energy is focused on the self rather than on the external world, but I can also see how wings play a role here.


----------



## The Wanderering ______

"3-7-8 - The Extrovert

This type is very outward focused. They must keep themselves involved with the external world in order to be relieve of stress and tension. Being alone and inactive causes anxiety."

The best explanation of like my whole life. Its also probably the biggest reason I hate staying at home.


----------



## HAL 9000

Ah, I think I'm a 461 or 416... There doesn't seem to be much information about those tritypes in particular around the internet, though... D:


----------



## Aquamarine

madhatter said:


> The 731 Tritype is known as the "Systems Builder" Tritype, which is a very focused, productive, and creative Tritype! The 731, even moreso if the 7 is in charge, will like to be positive and upbeat, and will be focused on finding out what needs to be done, and finding the most pleasant and efficient way to do so. One blindspot is that this Tritype can be very perfectionistic, and can have a tendency to miss seeing what is important to them because they have become overly focused on what appears to be successful, positive, or appropriate to others.
> 
> (3)-7-1 - The Idealistic 3
> 3-(7)-1 - The Competent 7
> 3-7-(1) - The Aggressive 1
> 
> Pseudo-realist. They believe they know who they are and what the world is like. May suffer from delusions.
> 
> Transcribed from the Fauvres’ video: “Well, it’s an interesting combination, because the 1, the 3 and the 7 are all focused on different ways to look at something to build. So, the 1 is looking at the foundational details and qualities needed for something to be done well. And, the 3 is looking for the most effective and efficient way to do something. And, the 7 has the vision. So, those three types come together you have someone that’s really good at knowing what to do and how to approach it in a fun way. So, they want to meet their goals (and in this case 3 is in charge), but they also want to do it in a way that’s pleasant. They want it to be enjoyable. They want to be interpersonal. But they want to do it well. [This is someone who has two perfectionist types, 1 and 3, but then they have that 7 coming in there, saying ‘Let’s make it fun and let’s keep it positive’. The life purpose for this type is to figure out what needs to be done and find a pleasant way to do it. They’re a true systems builder with a positive attitude. The blind spot for this type is that they can be so focused on what others view as appropriate, positive and successful that they miss seeing what is necessary and truly important to themselves.] Let’s look at the growing edge, what happens when you have that blindspot. Then, the growing edge is to focus on your inner world, because those three types tend to focus on external successes, especially when 3 is in charge. And the journey for this archetype, tritype, is to begin to look at the resources internally, and have the internal and external match.
> [So, my tritype is 371 and it took me a while observing strategies I was using and I definitely realized that I did use the 3, the 7 and the 1. One of the ways that I recognized that is that I have a lot of perfectionism in my work. I want to make sure that whatever it is I’m doing, it’s just not the best, but it’s also really just perfect. And, at the same time, I like to be creative, and I like my freedom. So, I knew that 7 was in there someplace.]
> Well, the knowing what is pleasant, like ending with a smile. We’ll notice that not everyone ends with a smile. Both the image type of 3 wants to have that pleasant quality, it’s appropriate for the 1, and it’s enjoyable for the 7. So you’ll see it in the micro-expressions and you’ll see it also in the word choices.”


Thanks for compiling everything! There doesn't seem to be any specific explanation for 7-1-3, though.


----------



## Animal

YAY! I've finally found my proper tritype.



madhatter said:


> 478 – The Messenger Archetype
> 
> The 847 is the passionate, cutting edge, innovative, compassionate, freedom seeking, creative, non conformist focused on implementing and manifesting their original vision.
> 
> *Most freedom loving--478, 874, 784


Freedom is the topic I've written about most, and this pretty much describes my personality & life goals to a T.



> sexual 748 is a very flamboyant type...748/847/478 is the most in need of freedom. This is the messenger archetype that feels they have a message to impart and wants the freedom to explore themselves and their external worlds.


Yup



> with 8 in charge you get more of a playful 7ish 8, like Pink or Katherine Fauvre).


Yup



> 478/784/847 Description: If you are the 478, you are intuitive, innovative and straight-forward. You want to be original, inspirational and self-possessed. A cutting-edge tracker of both your internal and external worlds, you are an unconventional, passionate master of solutions. Outwardly, you are confident but inwardly you are emotionally vulnerable. Life Mission: Your life mission is to find truth and communicate your findings. A true messenger, you are happiest when you use your creativity to find compassionate ways to understand yourself and empower others. Blind Spot: You can be so focused on your opinions, insights and what is new and profound that your freedom seeking nature can come across as arrogant, resistant, and/or uncooperative.


Exactly (I think I wrote this on my typing thread, heh)



> That blind spot was huge for me, having everyone in my life nod in agreement when it's read to them was a little hard, I really don't see myself as uncooperative but that's the nature of having a blind spot.


Sigh



> 847: Intuitive and innovative. Most creative, original and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric 8 especially if sx.


SX... guilty.



> 874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement.


This is why I had trouble finding my tritype but I am indeed engaged, except when I'm unhealthy/ disintegrated/ detached



> 4-7-(8) - The idealistic 8


Yupyup



> Somewhat manic. Dramatic and somewhat confrontational. Uncontrolled emotions.


Blah, I've even been suspect for bipolar disorder and I'm not bipolar



> eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
> personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
> and circumstances.


Hmm, this is true.



> This tritype is the most creative type on the enneagram regardless of which type is in charge. This creativity may or may not have artistic talent but always has a sense of aesthetics. All three crave authenticity, depth and individuality,


Yeah



> The 847 craves autonomy and must be the master and commander of their lives.


Well that's all 8's but yeah



> The primary Enneagram Type for you would be Type 8, however, this Tritype combination indicates that you would most likely be a strong, positive person who seeks solutions (8), options (7) and meaning (4).


Yup



> 874 tritype feels lighter and more enthusiastic to me, than does the 847 tritype, which feels more like a strike of lightning burrowing into the ground.


Well, I don't know about *that*...... 



> Perhaps the tritype is 847 where 7 acts as an ever-running generator, constantly humming underneath the surface. The 7 energy operates more like "monkey mind" than a physically expressed energy.


Lol.



> The 847 is more extroverted intuition with the attention going outward. It is a lighter and is more optimistic


ENFP here.


*****
My respect for the Fauvres just went up a notch


----------



## Tiggy

Any thoughts on the Tritype 762? Or possibly 672.


----------



## Hunger

@madhatter, I seek your incredible insight on a certain tritype. 

The *895*, specifically the 5 having a 4 wing.

I can't seem to find any information on this tritype. Your help would be greatly appreciated


----------



## The Wanderering ______

@*Gypsy* and @*Tiggy *
Both of these tritypes aren't possible in traditional tritype theory.


----------



## Animal

Tiggy said:


> Any thoughts on the Tritype 762? Or possibly 672.





Gypsy said:


> @_madhatter_, I seek your incredible insight on a certain tritype.
> 
> The *895*, specifically the 5 having a 4 wing.
> 
> I can't seem to find any information on this tritype. Your help would be greatly appreciated


Tritype consists of :

One gut type (8, 9, or 1)
One heart type (2, 3, or 4)
One head type (5, 6 , or 7)

A tritype with both 7 and 6, or 8 and 9, would not be possible.


----------



## The Wanderering ______

Maybe said:


> A tritype with both 7 and 6, or 8 and 9, would not be possible.


Its possible. If someone was 7w6 or 6w7 they would have 7 and 6 in their tritype. Other than that if you made a NEW tritype theory then sure... You can be 756 or 891 all damn day.

In a world with infinite possibilities anything is possible roud:


----------



## Eric B

The Wanderering ______ said:


> Its possible. If someone was 7w6 or 6w7 they would have 7 and 6 in their tritype. Other than that if you made a NEW tritype theory then sure... You can be 756 or 891 all damn day.
> 
> In a world with infinite possibilities anything is possible roud:


Someone earlier seemed to indicate that wings should not be used with tritypes. (Though I too would think that was a good way to have more flexibility in type blends).


----------



## Flatlander

The Wanderering ______ said:


> Its possible. If someone was 7w6 or 6w7 they would have 7 and 6 in their tritype. Other than that if you made a NEW tritype theory then sure... You can be 756 or 891 all damn day.
> 
> In a world with infinite possibilities anything is possible roud:


Might seem like anything's possible, but it's important to consider if it's probable. 

Anyway, being that this is a manmade structure, it comes defined. Wings don't count as part of the listed tritype, just add a little bit of style preference to it (I might have a w8 and a w2 but my tritype is still 592).


----------



## The Wanderering ______

Eric B said:


> Someone earlier seemed to indicate that wings should not be used with tritypes. (Though I too would think that was a good way to have more flexibility in type blends).


Yes and watch all the ENTPs type themselves 7-5 tritype.


----------



## kitsu

Wait, are there some triad combinations that are impossible?
I'm a 6-4-7 but still unsure, and I haven't seen that anywhere....


----------



## Flatlander

Hurricane said:


> Wait, are there some triad combinations that are impossible?
> I'm a 6-4-7 but still unsure, and I haven't seen that anywhere....


Someone explained it above. A tritype consists of one type from each center to show how you relate to each of the core emotions: fear, anger, shame.


----------



## kitsu

Flatliner said:


> Someone explained it above. A tritype consists of one type from each center to show how you relate to each of the core emotions: fear, anger, shame.


Aha, I see, I am a fool ^^
In that case the only thing I'm certain of is my 6-ness... Urgh


----------



## Flatlander

Hurricane said:


> Aha, I see, I am a fool ^^
> In that case the only thing I'm certain of is my 6-ness... Urgh


You're fine. If you go through the process of figuring yourself out, it will eventually come to light.


----------



## Animal

Hurricane said:


> Aha, I see, I am a fool ^^
> In that case the only thing I'm certain of is my 6-ness... Urgh


I was confused when I first came to the forum.. I kept asking, "Why can't I be a 5-8-1??"

Also, I think this is funny, "certain of your 6ness" - aren't 6's supposed to be uncertain & doubting by default? 

(I'm teasing)


----------



## kitsu

Maybe said:


> I was confused when I first came to the forum.. I kept asking, "Why can't I be a 5-8-1??"
> 
> Also, I think this is funny, "certain of your 6ness" - aren't 6's supposed to be uncertain & doubting by default?
> 
> (I'm teasing)


Haha good I'm not alone then!

And I am certain only of my uncertainty ;-)


----------



## Chaerephon

Hmmm I am thinking I am 458 or 485. Although I could possibly be a 459. Or maybe 594. I do not know except there are a 4 and a 5 in there lmao.

Edit: In case anyone cares I am going with 459. Specifically 4w5 5w4 9w8


----------



## mushr00m

NameUser said:


> Hmmm I am thinking I am 458 or 485. Although I could possibly be a 459. Or maybe 594. I do not know except there are a 4 and a 5 in there lmao.
> 
> Edit: In case anyone cares I am going with 459. Specifically 4w5 5w4 9w8


Are you sure? I mean it's pretty unusual to have 4, 5 and 8 in the same tritype. 9 sounds more plausible as a fellow withdrawn although that would make you triple withdrawn. Have you looked into the triads?


----------



## The Wanderering ______

mushr00m said:


> Are you sure? I mean it's pretty unusual to have 4, 5 and 8 in the same tritype. 9 sounds more plausible as a fellow withdrawn although that would make you triple withdrawn. Have you looked into the triads?


How is 458 weird? Its a very possible tritype combination. I mean it even has the longest description in the whole thread full of as many personal viewpoints as you can beg to shake a dog biscuit at.


----------



## mushr00m

The Wanderering ______ said:


> How is 458 weird? Its a very possible tritype combination. I mean it even has the longest description in the whole thread full of as many personal viewpoints as you can beg to shake a dog biscuit at.


Possible yes. Very possible, i'm not sure about that one. I'm just saying that this tritype is an unusual combination and it strikes me as off that it happens to be the most written about considering that these 3 types, 4, 5 and 8 together and considering what they are about, again, sounds off. I really wouldn't go by how much information is written about a tritype, that doesn't mean much at all, it's the individual types that matter at their purest functioning. If I were you, id just look a bit more into it. :happy:


----------



## The Scorched Earth

The Triple Competent Triad (1-3-5) sounds like a fucking automaton.


----------



## mushr00m

Ice Ghost said:


> The Triple Competent Triad (1-3-5) sounds like a fucking automaton.


That sounds like quite an interesting tritype. Yeah, I see what you mean, it that how you would describe it personally? I would imagine this tritype would be very coiled with their emotions, a bit stiff, not letting a peep out, lol! All subjective opinion though :tongue:


----------



## The Wanderering ______

mushr00m said:


> If I were you, id just look a bit more into it. :happy:


No thanks


----------



## The Wanderering ______

Ice Ghost said:


> The Triple Competent Triad (1-3-5) sounds like a fucking automaton.


Hey. Hermoine Grainger was a 351. Smart as fuck, more clever than almost any other wizard AND a very idealistic person.


----------



## Bluity

There might be a nine in me.

But Nines confuse me. The more I read the nine forum the more nebulous the type appears. I can't get a good solid fix on them. Maybe that's the point.

So I'll go with a cautious 9 in my tritype, for now.


----------



## The Scorched Earth

mushr00m said:


> That sounds like quite an interesting tritype. Yeah, I see what you mean, it that how you would describe it personally? I would imagine this tritype would be very coiled with their emotions, a bit stiff, not letting a peep out, lol! All subjective opinion though :tongue:


Yes, I'm not coiled.


----------



## mushr00m

The Wanderering ______ said:


> No thanks


I was only saying. That's all. 



Ice Ghost said:


> Yes, I'm not coiled.


And people always speculate but good for you for telling me so. Still, for a triple competent, triple avoidance of emotions. That sounds pretty coiled imo. Jus sayin.


----------



## Ellis Bell

Bluity said:


> There might be a nine in me.
> 
> But Nines confuse me. The more I read the nine forum the more nebulous the type appears. I can't get a good solid fix on them. Maybe that's the point.
> 
> So I'll go with a cautious 9 in my tritype, for now.


Yes, I do believe that 9s are some of the harder types to grasp, and our forum is a reflection of that. I think it's because we embody a lot of the other types that we just don't seem to have a coherent, fixed identity.


----------



## Chaerephon

mushr00m said:


> Are you sure? I mean it's pretty unusual to have 4, 5 and 8 in the same tritype. 9 sounds more plausible as a fellow withdrawn although that would make you triple withdrawn. Have you looked into the triads?


Yes I am pretty sure. I'd say about 80-90% (which for me equates as sure as I'll ever be) on 45, and it was between 8 or 9. I went 9w8, which made the most sense for my third type. I am about inner peace, but I am more about being cerebral, but even more about being authentic.

Being an E in MBTI may draw doubts to many. Which is quite understandable, but it seems to fit me. I am very Te, although I also have unusually strong Ti from reading a lot when I was younger. When I noticed 459 said "true philosopher" I realized it was the best fit. I am reading The History of Western Philosophy for fun... I love it and think about it a lot. I have some 8 tendencies.

Although I do not care really what it is, and only want to know so I can relate better to others and to understand myself. I just felt it was best for me. I am quite... "unique." So it would make sense if my tri-type wasn't too common.

If you would like to take the time to verify my type, I would actually really appreciate it. I'll answer some questions.

Edit: and as for withdrawn. As much as I love to understand and gather knowledge about the world around me. I don't really think I live in "reality" a lot of the time.


----------



## Entropic

NameUser said:


> Yes I am pretty sure. I'd say about 80-90% (which for me equates as sure as I'll ever be) on 45, and it was between 8 or 9. I went 9w8, which made the most sense for my third type. I am about inner peace, but I am more about being cerebral, but even more about being authentic.
> 
> Being an E in MBTI may draw doubts to many. Which is quite understandable, but it seems to fit me. I am very Te, although I also have unusually strong Ti from reading a lot when I was younger. When I noticed 459 said "true philosopher" I realized it was the best fit. I am reading The History of Western Philosophy for fun... I love it and think about it a lot. I have some 8 tendencies.
> 
> Although I do not care really what it is, and only want to know so I can relate better to others and to understand myself. I just felt it was best for me. I am quite... "unique." So it would make sense if my tri-type wasn't too common.
> 
> If you would like to take the time to verify my type, I would actually really appreciate it. I'll answer some questions.
> 
> Edit: and as for withdrawn. As much as I love to understand and gather knowledge about the world around me. I don't really think I live in "reality" a lot of the time.


Perhaps focus more on the actual motivations than whether you are Te, Ti, if you like philosophy or if you read a lot of books as a child? How do you relate to avarice, envy and sloth? I might as well toss in type 6 motivations too because you vibe far more as a type 6w7/7w6 (lean more towards 6) to me than 4, 5 or 9.


----------



## Chaerephon

Kamishi said:


> Perhaps focus more on the actual motivations than whether you are Te, Ti, if you like philosophy or if you read a lot of books as a child? How do you relate to avarice, envy and sloth? I might as well toss in type 6 motivations too because you vibe far more as a type 6w7/7w6 (lean more towards 6) to me than 4, 5 or 9.


I must say. All you have interacted with is my words online. This completely negates actions and skews emotions. Although I would never be against a list of questions, that would better help me understand my real type, whatever it is. I have looked at the fears and desires and stuff and I feel those fit me.

4
Fear: Loss of Identity
Desire: Authenticity

That is basically my motivations in life. I have my own way of going about things. Being an E this is a fact I have been aware of most of my life. I don't even like seeing people that resemble me sometimes lmao.

5
Basic Fear: Helplessness
Basic Desire: Competency

I am very 5 as well, although not quite as much. I like being able to do things for myself and hate not being independent. Thus I try to learn as much as possible. I do see this as just a support to my 4. In my more negative moods, this leads to "I hate dumb people"

9
Basic Fear: Loss and Annihilation
Basic Desire: Stability and Peace of Mind

I definitely love meditation and have been practicing for about 5-6 years now. I try to aim for at least a slightly meditative state at all times. Sometimes I fear it is all lost and hopeless.

6
Basic Fear: To lose security
Basic Desire: To be secure

I do enjoy being secure, and do not like insecurity, but I feel that is basically equal if not less than others I have met. I do see some 6 tendencies now that you point it out, but I would say I more learned the value in those traits from others. Things like skepticism. So I basically just practiced them. The other ones I don't see as much in others, but I definitely have them in myself. Although I guess it is very possible I have a 6 in there somewhere.

I do think I would be a rare tri-type, I don't know many people who are actually like me.

Also...


> If you are 459 is described as being intuitive, knowledgeable, an accepting. You want to be original, wise and peaceful. Highly self aware and reflective, you are very shy, reserved and self conscious. You need regular quiet time to reflect on your thoughts and emotions. Easily flooded with emotion, it is difficult for you to voice your feelings and ideas to others.
> 
> Your life mission is to delve deeply into the mysteries of life and share your insight with others. A true philosopher (also, contemplative), you are happiest when you can write about your discoveries and discuss them with others. Making sense of your world is a never ending quest.


That was a big indicator for me too. 

Also the "you are very shy, reserved and self conscious" I used to be, and in a way still am, but by the end of High School I had started to come out of my shell and then I got a job in retail/ food service which helped me out a lot in communication. So even though I am shy, I can hide it because I have become good at talking to people I don't know. When I meet potential love interests the shy, reserved, and self-conscious me will always shows up. Again I can hide it pretty well now even if I feel shy the whole time at first. Although I guess some women are attracted to that personality. So sometimes I don't lol.

Then where it says, "Easily flooded with emotion, it is difficult for you to voice your feelings and ideas to others." This still happens. I work on it, but I get excited sometimes. This is because meditation will tune you into your emotions so you are pretty aware of them.

Finally


> Intense, especially with sx first. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Most 4ish 5, especially with four wing. Tough-minded, analytical 4 that is staunchly individualistic. Withdrawn, sensitive, creative 8. "Scholar" archetype if I remember correctly. Wants to know what makes people tick.


This was spooky, so it was what first made me think 458. I try not to be cynical, or at least turn it into a positive way of looking at things, but I used to be extremely cynical.


----------



## Entropic

NameUser said:


> I must say. All you have interacted with is my words online.


But words can reveal a lot about how you think and what motivates you, since you do not utter words without a reason, cause or purpose. This reason, cause or purpose can be understood by studying how you express yourself in for example text.


> This completely negates actions and skews emotions. Although I would never be against a list of questions, that would better help me understand my real type, whatever it is. I have looked at the fears and desires and stuff and I feel those fit me.


But aside relating to them superficially, how do they actually seem to define who you are on the inside? See, there's a certain superficial and blase attitude you possess that's reminiscient of both CP6 and 7 narcissism, that you aren't really that interested in examining yourself at a deeper level, like you aren't taking this seriously. 

Instead what you seem to be doing is looking for descriptors that seem to reinforce your existing sense of self and who you are, but you aren't willing to examine how this actually matches up with reality. None of the things you cite actually reinforce 4-ness, 5-ness or even 9-ness. Having your own way of going on about things is not what 4 is about at all. 4 as a type has to do with a sense of being different and deficit and how type 4 tries to cope with this sense of deficit through envy. 

The stuff you wrote about 5 has zero to do with 5-ness, really. 5 isn't about learning as much as possible about something or hating dumb people. Being type 5 is reflected in a need to know or understand something fundamental about the world, 5s seek one grand truth. I don't see this behavior in you at all as a motivation. 

Instead, what I see is a lot of restless head energy that's very scattered. I think social 7w6, possibly disintegrated is a good bet at this point.


> I do think I would be a rare tri-type, I don't know many people who are actually like me.


Considering that there are 27 combinations, the likelihood you'll meet someone exactly like you is probably fairly low as a whole, since there are more factors that play a role when it comes to personality than enneagram.


> Also the "you are very shy, reserved and self conscious" I used to be, and in a way still am, but by the end of High School I had started to come out of my shell and then I got a job in retail/ food service which helped me out a lot in communication. So even though I am shy, I can hide it because I have become good at talking to people I don't know. When I meet potential love interests the shy, reserved, and self-conscious me will always shows up. Again I can hide it pretty well now even if I feel shy the whole time at first. Although I guess some women are attracted to that personality. So sometimes I don't lol.
> 
> Then where it says, "Easily flooded with emotion, it is difficult for you to voice your feelings and ideas to others." This still happens. I work on it, but I get excited sometimes. This is because meditation will tune you into your emotions so you are pretty aware of them.


I could see a case of type 3 in the tritype here. 

Also, I'm a 458. I know my tritype pretty well and how it works at this point and I can quite clearly tell that you are not one, to be honest.


----------



## Chaerephon

[B said:


> Kamishi][/B]But words can reveal a lot about how you think and what motivates you, since you do not utter words without a reason, cause or purpose. This reason, cause or purpose can be understood by studying how you express yourself in for example text


They can reveal a lot. Ask me questions. I will answer them.




> But aside relating to them superficially, how do they actually seem to define who you are on the inside? See, there's a certain superficial and blase attitude you possess that's reminiscient of both CP6 and 7 narcissism, that you aren't really that interested in examining yourself at a deeper level, like you aren't taking this seriously.


Imagine if you could hear the tone and mood of my voice. You could see my posture. How much eye contact I was making. It makes a difference in what I am saying. Through text we have to imply and guess all those things.

I will tell you though, I do read some slight accusation in what you have told me.




> Instead what you seem to be doing is looking for descriptors that seem to reinforce your existing sense of self and who you are, but you aren't willing to examine how this actually matches up with reality. None of the things you cite actually reinforce 4-ness, 5-ness or even 9-ness. Having your own way of going on about things is not what 4 is about at all. 4 as a type has to do with a sense of being different and deficit and how type 4 tries to cope with this sense of deficit through envy.


Like the feeling of seeing everyone connecting on some level that you for some reason don't connect on. Or wondering why the things you feel are accomplishments get no reward, and the ones you think are empty get all the glory. I am different. Those were details that secured it, not the main deciding factors. I just try to cope with it all in a healthy way. I have pretty good idea of my existing sense of self. I'm sure I come off as slightly arrogant. I understand that arrogance has a strong correlation with sureness. I'm just pretty sure I am a 4.



> The stuff you wrote about 5 has zero to do with 5-ness, really. 5 isn't about learning as much as possible about something or hating dumb people. Being type 5 is reflected in a need to know or understand something fundamental about the world, 5s seek one grand truth. I don't see this behavior in you at all as a motivation.



Look sorry. You are right that I didn't take it completely seriously. Again that is part of the internet I feel. It was a mental slack off to say the least. You don't think I seek grand truth when I am an avid lover of philosophy and am currently reading a book about the history of it? I personally see the relation in philosophy and grand truth. We just have different ideas of what grand truth is. We could have a very long discussion about it. I would actually enjoy it even if it gets me excited at points. This however is not the thread for that, unless you think my view of that will help reveal my true type.



> Instead, what I see is a lot of restless head energy that's very scattered. I think social 7w6, possibly disintegrated is a good bet at this point.


Why do you insist I am unhealthy? I am really anything but. I am about the idea of unification of Mind, Body, and Spirit. That has basically been me since I can remember even if I didn't realize it at first. I can't prove myself innocent.




> Considering that there are 27 combinations, the likelihood you'll meet someone exactly like you is probably fairly low as a whole, since there are more factors that play a role when it comes to personality than enneagram.


Very true. Plus I could have met one and never known. Plus I didn't think about that for each one there are 3 variants as well. Statistics tells us that it is unlikely. Another form of mental laziness on my part. Sorry.




> I could see a case of type 3 in the tritype here.
> 
> Also, I'm a 458. I know my tritype pretty well and how it works at this point and I can quite clearly tell that you are not one, to be honest.


We have had limited interaction. Unless of course you have been studying me. Although I apparently have come off as a 6 3 at first to you. Please assume I am healthy instead of unhealthy though.

Thank you for taking interest in me. I would like a more secured idea of my type. I will take into account what you have told me so far.


----------



## NothingHere

I want more information on 358.


----------



## brianbsmiley

479 Yes I would say I am a gentle spirit haha. It's weird to think that an ENFP can be a 479 though as "gentle spirit" seems to mean more introverted. Hmm, I definitely am a complex person lol. Also, I am sx/so. I often wonder what all of this means haha. Trying to find my true self and appreciate me for me roud:


----------



## B00Bz

I'm probably a bit softer than the average 378.


----------



## oomi

Bluity said:


> There might be a nine in me.
> 
> But Nines confuse me. The more I read the nine forum the more nebulous the type appears. I can't get a good solid fix on them. Maybe that's the point.
> 
> So I'll go with a cautious 9 in my tritype, for now.


The reason 9s seem nebulous is because we do kind of a personality aikido: we don't let you pin us down.

Note that aikido is a very defensive martial art, the point of which is to _avoid conflict_, to use the opponent's energy against them. Direct attacks fail. E.g., if a type 8 tries to start a direct conflict with a 9, using tried-and-true tactics, they'll be befuddled by the lack of response.

Type 9s cause by _inaction_ that which others cause by action.

But we can be pinned down if you know the secret: we avoid conflict, we apply inertia (as opposed to force) to move forward.

But if you aren't careful, even that knowledge won't stop a 9. To manipulate a 9, you need to remove all but a single conflict-avoidant option. If you remove all options, you effectively force a 9 to stand up for him- or herself. Whether the wing is a 1 or an 8: a w1 will fight for the ideal, and a w8 will fight for personal integrity. But only if you are foolish enough to remove _all_ of the conflict-free options. But if you don't remove all options, it's remarkably difficult to leave only a single option. In any given context, there are often several specific options to avoid conflict, even if most _categories_ of options have been eliminated.

Another way to put it: type 9s are the _epitome_ of passive-aggressiveness. As such, try to think of how you might conspire to control things such that a type 9 cannot exercise _any_ passive-aggressiveness at all. It turns out to be remarkably difficult.

The reason the conflict-avoidance appears to be such a nebulous trait is that the concrete actions required to avoid conflict are highly context-dependent. In one case, we might dodge right, while in another we might dodge left. The point isn't to "go right" or "go left": the point is to react in such a way that negative consequences are avoided.

The weakness of the 9 is the corollary of the weakness of the 8. Just as the 8's coping mechanism is to fight all opposition, the 9's is to avoid all such fights. As with any coping mechanism, it is adopted because it actually appears to work most of the time. The reason it _is_ a coping mechanism is that it is applied even when inappropriate. Type 8s need to learn which fights aren't worth fighting, and type 9s need to learn which fights actually are worth fighting.


----------



## Astrid Von M

Flatliner said:


> You've never heard of it before because the idea of a tritype is to have one type in each center - mind, gut, heart. 1 and 8 are both gut types, 3 is a heart type, and your tritype is hence left without a mind type.


yeah, i really haven't! makes sense tho  thank you - i got it )


----------



## Despotic Nepotist

The13thGuest said:


> This is very interesting. I've officially found my tritype.
> 
> _The 845 is the somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness_.
> 
> I originally thought myself to be 8-4-6, but I didn't relate much to the descriptions I had seen, so I looked at other possibilities.
> 
> Almost everything this says about the 458 is me, and I am an sx variant as well.
> 
> Though I'm sure that if I looked at any tritype, I could see something in it resembling me, the 458 is very accurate.
> 
> Thank you for posting this.



I am a 584 tritype, and I am also a sexual variant.


----------



## euro4

The13thGuest said:


> This is very interesting. I've officially found my tritype.
> 
> _The 845 is the somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness_.
> 
> I originally thought myself to be 8-4-6, but I didn't relate much to the descriptions I had seen, so I looked at other possibilities.
> 
> Almost everything this says about the 458 is me, and I am an sx variant as well.
> 
> Though I'm sure that if I looked at any tritype, I could see something in it resembling me, the 458 is very accurate.
> 
> Thank you for posting this.





MindPersonified said:


> I am a 584 tritype, and I am also a sexual variant.


The main character Ray Donovan from Ray Donovan (TV Series 2013â€“ ) - IMDb seems to be a 845 INTJ person. Would you agree and relate to this character?
Dark, intelligent and problem fixer.

Also a 458 or 854 combination seems to fit the INTJ way of behaving: strategic, withdrawn, fixing problems. I can hardly see how a 458 could be some other MBTI combination, like ESFP


----------



## Despotic Nepotist

euro4 said:


> The main character Ray Donovan from Ray Donovan (TV Series 2013â€“ ) - IMDb seems to be a 845 INTJ person. Would you agree and relate to this character?
> Dark, intelligent and problem fixer.
> 
> Also a 458 or 854 combination seems to fit the INTJ way of behaving: strategic, withdrawn, fixing problems. I can hardly see how a 458 could be some other MBTI combination, like ESFP


I think Severus Snape is a 548. By the way, if you're a Potterhead, what tritype do you think Dumbledore is?


----------



## euro4

MindPersonified said:


> I think Severus Snape is a 548. By the way, if you're a Potterhead, what tritype do you think Dumbledore is?


I would rather type Snape as 416 or 164
type 1 rather than 8 because he is not a natural leader and tends to think in terms of right and wrong. He has a lot of anger in 1 style, and when he scolds HP he is more in the line of "I am righteous and you are wrong and evil". And his wrath and tight neck speak of the repressed fury of the 1.
type 6 rather than 5 because he is kind of looking for authority figures (Dumbledore, Valdemort) and tries to ingratiate himself by doing what he is asked and complying. He wants to belong to the group.

Do you feel identified with Snape?

About Dumbledore, I would type him as 794 or maybe 793
type 7 is his basic type as he is witty and he likes to be eccentric and amuse himself with plenty of things
type 9 because he is kind of a pacifier (even when he is in power he is not like a 1 or a 8) and accepting of people and their flaws
type 4 as there is kind of a melancholy and a quest to find the origins....

What is your guess?



* *








madhatter said:


> 146 – The Philosopher Archetype
> 
> 146
> If you are a 146, you are diligent, intuitive, and inquisitive. You want to be ethical, original and certain. Morally focused, you have strong emotions and are inclined to voice your feelings and intuitions. You care deeply and want to help others improve the expectations they have of themselves.
> 
> Your life mission is to find truth and help others understand what has intrinsic value. A true philosopher, you are happiest when you can use your intuition to help others find meaning.
> 
> You can be so identified with what you perceive is the morally correct way of being that you can come across as overly prudish, rigid and inflexible.
> 
> 146s of all core types tend to be poised and prudent, almost as though they were consulting with their inner critic to have each word screened before it passes their lips. When you're conversing with them, there's always a third party present: the judge. It can seem like they're always standing at attention. They're also oddly picky about minutiae in most (if not all) areas of life, almost as though they were looking for little things to be picky about.
> This is very true of the 146s I know. They can be so moralistic. The so/sp is even more prudent. I think Katherine says they are really hard on themselves. They are the most critical of the tritype combinations. They expect a lot from themselves and others. I feel for them.
> 
> 461: Inquisitive and discerning 4. Most compliant and rule-oriented 4. 6ish. Tends to run high anxiety especially if self-preserving.
> 
> David Fauvre also said that 461's have a bit of a 'bite' to them.
> 
> The 486 is much more assertive that the 416. The 416, 459 and 469 all struggle with painful self-consciousness and inhibition. The 461 tends to being very critical of themselves to avoid being criticized. This tritype is very particular. The 416 hesitates and the 486 impulsively reacts. A perceived threat to the primary instinct triggers the tritype.
> 
> Any combination that has a 6 runs anxiety. Any tritype that has self-pres as the dominant instinct is motivated by anxiety. The tritypes that tend to run high anxiety are the 614 and 694... and then 629 and 639.
> 
> (4)-6-1 - The Compliant 4
> 4-(6)-1 - The Idealistic 6
> 4-6-(1) - The Reactive 1
> 
> This type is somewhat neurotic. Perfectionistic. May push themselves beyond their physical capability. At the same time they tend to believe themselves to be better than most.
> 
> 641, and he's a perennial hothead who does a fair bit of ranting
> 
> I'd been assuming I was a 4-6-9, but I didn't relate to hardly any of the 9 keywords. Am I calm? Patient? No way! I'm the total opposite. To my surprise, I related more to the 1 and even the 8 keywords. My sheet of self-description had a lot of 9y things on it, but I really don't feel like a 9. We all had a bit of trouble figuring it out for me because of that, but we settled on 4-6-1, because I relate so much to the 'self-controlled' and all that, have an extremely loud superego, and am always worrying about whether I'm doing the right thing. And it really explains so much. Most of why I act so much like a 9 is because my superego is constantly pressuring me to. You wouldn't think that a 4-6-9 would be told so constantly that I 'don't know how to relax.' As a kid, I wasn't 9ish at all. I acted like a 4, 6 or 1 all the time. I have a strong compliant, conventional and 'obey the rules' streak. My 6 has got to be almost purely phobic because I don't react like a 6, although I have anxiety and doubt to boot (I joke about being a 'phobic 4' sometimes). I've often felt like I was a superego type and a really strong frustration type, and that explains it. That explains why I feel so much like I'm trapped in a cage and beating my wings against the bars, which is a feeling my type and stacking and wing didn't seem to fully explain. No wonder I didn't see much in trifix theory before--I was assigning myself the wrong one. It was a huge surprise. And god, it's a relief.
> 
> 1-4-6: Fear of desperateness, dullness and doubt. Tendency to seek things they will accept, poignance and assurance.
> 
> When the 4 and 6 are in the tritype there is more negativity as a strategy to prevent making a mistake that will bring shame, blame and criticism. This is most true of the 461 and then 468 and then the 469.
> 
> 1-4-6 : these Ones are quite imaginative, creative and a bit melancholic. They are extreme perfectionists and can easily feel discouraged and let down by the imperfect world around. They don’t easily trust others and tend to avoid society, but at the same time they crave being loved and belonging. They also have a bit of a temper so their anger can show especially when feeling misunderstood. They tend to support the underdog and they can have a passionate, belligerent streak to them.
> usual subtypes: sexual, social, 1w2
> similar tritypes: 1-6-4, 4-1-6
> flavours: imaginative, passionate, suspicious and sensitive
> 
> 1-6-4 : very dutiful and faithful but also prone to angry reactions and, rarely, depression bouts in isolation. This is a more anxious One that finds it harder to hide his anger and his concern with the loyalty and reliability of those around. Can experience strong like/dislike feelings about people and situations and is more suspicious and prejudiced towards newcomers and different groups. They are typically traditionalists, but will at times go against tradition in a rather rebellious way, especially when insecure.
> typical subtypes: sexual, social 1w2
> similar tritypes: 6-1-4, 1-4-6
> flavours: faithful, anxious, discriminating and sometimes defiant
> 
> (from InsightfulInnovations [146] philosophy is centered around the belief that people should be honest, hard-working, tasteful and well…strive for perfection.
> The Six in his tritype exacerbates the appearance of phobias. Jeff [Lewis] is likely the 164 tritype which heightens his emotional reactivity (both Fours and Sixes are reactive types) and creates a more persnickety personality style. As a One, Jeff channels his persnickety nature into keeping extreme order, efficiency and practicality in his work and home life. However, with the Four thrown in he ends up behaving a bit like a frustrated diva when things aren’t done to his specifications.
> The following was excerpted from Katherine Fauvre’s seminal work on tritype:
> 146: The Philosopher
> Archetype: They are “diligent, intuitive, and inquisitive. You want to be ethical, original and certain. Morally focused, you have strong emotions and are inclined to voice your feelings and intuitions. You care deeply and want to help others improve their lives and the expectations they have of themselves.”
> Core Triggers: Feeling wrong, inadequate and/or uncertain.
> Core Fears: The core fears are of being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, unqualified, corruptible, nonredeemable, condemned, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, mundane, ordinary, commonplace, being abandoned, fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, and deviance, uncertainty, targeted, and chaos.
> Blind Spot: The blind spot is that they can be so identified with what they perceive is the morally correct way of being that they can come across as overly prudish, rigid and inflexible. When they feel insecure, they can be overly critical of themselves and others and appear to be a snob.
> Growing Edge: The growing edge is to recognize that authenticity is not cultivated. Their inclination is to create a sense of self around an identity of being informed and educated. Sophistry is a mimic of being. True awareness comes from being present to the moment rather than developing an image of being ‘in the know’.
> 
> 614
> The Philosopher. Discerning and intuitive 6. This is the most particular 6. This 6 is very creative especially with the 7 wing. They can be torn between the need for meaning and need to be dutiful and responsible. This 6 is often drawn to teaching.
> 
> The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, unqualified, corruptible, condemned, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, and being abandoned.
> 
> Anxiety and worry increase with the 1 and doubt and uncertainty with the 9. Examine your motivations rather than your behaviors. This is especially difficult for the 6, but more so for the 649 as all 3 types tend to doubt as a defense strategy. This is the Tritype that is most reluctant to take a stand for their "own" opinion until they are angry. The 641 has all 3 types that fear making a mistake and being at risk for having done so. They tend to be more likely to show frustration and to correct and instruct others ( especially for the so 641).
> 
> your descriptions sound more like sp1 in the gut. As a sp6 you have a natural iine of connection to sp9. Research has shown that you move to your wings and lines of connection with the same dominant instinct running the show. When your sp6 moves to sp9 and sp3 it is momentary and adding to you sp6. When you shift in your tritype your sp6 shifts to the 1 for solutions and runs all permutations of the 1 driven by the needs and concerns of the self-pres. The confusion may be that sp1 worries much like a 6 but the focus is on improving. So your instinct may have made it more difficult to land on the 614. Take your time. The 694 is much more hidden and inhibited. The 641 is focused on the perfecting and refining...getting it right.
> 
> Both 4s and 6s can be emotional. The questions is what are you emotional about? In terms of difficult behaviors...
> 6s identify a source to prove
> 4s identify a source to impress
> 641 particular, fussy
> 
> Compliance (1-6) meets frustration (1-4) meets intensity (4-6). Very anxiety-prone combination ("stressure"). High-strung perfectionists who strongly value the "correct" way of doing things. On the high side, they often make excellent teachers of the arts or anything they're passionate about.
> 
> I see the fix as somewhat harmonious. Six and Four share reactivity. Six and One share compliance. Four and One share DOI/DOD (direction of integration and disintegration). Regarding respective (emotional) triadic roles, One represents repression, Four introversion, and Six ambiversion/ambivalence. If anything, I think this trifix would result in a kind of over-obedience and lack of spontaneity/open-endedness. A less "extraverted" gestalt
> 
> 146 - There is also a "zeal" for action for this type, but it will realize much earlier if what they're doing has no real meaning and will look for something else. They still might feel that they've "sold out" just to ensure security and doing the "right" thing. They need to trust what they intuitively sense and act accordingly, and learn to do this with others, i.e. they must trust what others feel is right for themselves and gives these people room to do that despite the very strong intuitions of this tritype.


----------



## Despotic Nepotist

euro4 said:


> I would rather type Snape as 416 or 164
> type 1 rather than 8 because he is not a natural leader and tends to think in terms of right and wrong. He has a lot of anger in 1 style, and when he scolds HP he is more in the line of "I am righteous and you are wrong and evil". And his wrath and tight neck speak of the repressed fury of the 1.
> type 6 rather than 5 because he is kind of looking for authority figures (Dumbledore, Valdemort) and tries to ingratiate himself by doing what he is asked and complying. He wants to belong to the group.
> 
> Do you feel identified with Snape?
> 
> About Dumbledore, I would type him as 794 or maybe 793
> type 7 is his basic type as he is witty and he likes to be eccentric and amuse himself with plenty of things
> type 9 because he is kind of a pacifier (even when he is in power he is not like a 1 or a 8) and accepting of people and their flaws
> type 4 as there is kind of a melancholy and a quest to find the origins....
> 
> What is your guess?
> 
> 
> 
> * *



I actually identify very strongly with Snape, but then again, I am wondering whether my main gut type is an 8w9 or 1w9, as I am relatively new to Enneagram theory. I always test as a 5w6.

It seems that both the 584 and 514 fall under the category of being scholarly, academic people with a love of learning and I can actually identify strongly with both.


----------



## euro4

MindPersonified said:


> I actually identify very strongly with Snape, but then again, I am wondering whether my main gut type is an 8w9 or 1w9, as I am relatively new to Enneagram theory. I always test as a 5w6.
> 
> It seems that both the 584 and 514 fall under the category of being scholarly, academic people with a love of learning and I can actually identify strongly with both.


It is a pity that @madhatter is not there to respond with wisdom.

I am a 451 (4w5 5w6 1w9) and I think that 451 can be a bit different from the 458. The 451 is more intellectual and scholar, and more filled with guilt and self loathing (thank you type 1!!). The 458 would be more dark, domineering others.
As a 451, I always test as a 5 when actually I am a true 4 as main core, with the good and bad of the 4. So I prefer to know the descriptions better than the automatic tests.

I quote from this site some data about misidentifications ... and see what fits you better:
Misidentifications of Enneagram Personality Types
_
Misidentifying Ones and Eights

Both Ones and Eights are in the Instinctive Triad, both have strong wills, both are action-oriented, and both have strong notions about how to do things. However, Ones try to convince others to do the right thing (as they see it) from the standpoint of a moral imperative–because it is the right thing to do. They try to logically convince the other of the soundness of their views, but become irritated and less logical when others resists their reasoning. Eights, on the other hand, rely on their own self-confidence, and attempt to sway others by their gutsy convictions and sheer personal charisma. ("I don't know if it's the right way, but it's my way.") Ones try to convert those who resist them: Eights try to power through them.

The greatest misunderstanding between these two types involves their concern with justice, although the nature of their sense of justice can be quite different. Ones hold justice as an extremely important value–many judges, attorneys, advocates, and criminal prosecutors actually are Ones. Ones think a great deal about issues of providing suitable standards for human beings and about the specifics of how to administer a fair and equitable system. Ones at all Levels of Development refer to justice and think that they seek justice (no matter how skewed their interpretation of it may become). In any case, justice is a matter of principles–part of their idealism. They strive after justice and want to rectify injustices wherever they find them because, among other reasons, to do otherwise would be to fail to live up to their high moral standards and make them feel guilty.

In Eights, justice is more of a visceral response, a reaction to witnessing injustices occurring. Eights, generally speaking, do not walk around thinking about these matters, but if they saw a helpless person being harmed or bullied by others, without thinking about it, Eights would rush in to "level the playing field." For Eights, justice has little to do with abstract principles. Eights see themselves as protectors of others, and when they are healthy, they actually are. Eights are more likely to seek justice for "their people"–their family, friends, co-workers, ethnic group, and so forth. It is usually expressed in a concern that those in their care (or under their power and authority) be treated fairly. The cowboy marshal protecting the town against criminals and the union chief negotiating a just wage for the rank and file are examples of this more restricted concern for justice. With Eights, the sense of justice usually involves addressing an imbalance of power. This is quite different from the One who seeks to make sure that people are appropriately rewarded for good actions and punished for bad ones.

Of course, in their unhealthy manifestations, both types can be extremely unjust. Ones will still believe that they are being fair–the punishments they are meting out are for the good of the person being punished, or at the very least, for the good of society. Ones feel they need to rationalize their punitive activities. Eights do not. For unhealthy Eights, administering justice is simply meting out vengeance. ("You hurt me or my people, and I'll destroy you." "He ripped me off. Now he has to pay.") Needless to say, others may question the "justice" in either of these types' unhealthy behavior.

The confusion between Eights and Ones probably also stems from the fact that some Ones may misidentify themselves as Eights since they would like to have the authority and influence of Eights. They may also recognize that they have aggressive impulses and misidentify themselves as an "aggressive type," although they are really compliant to their ideals; the Eight is the true aggressive type par excellence. On the other hand, Eights almost never misidentify themselves as Ones, viewing Ones as lily-livered and bloodless–moral only because they are too weak to be strong. Although Eights themselves are unlikely to think they are Ones, other people sometimes misidentify Eights as Ones because they see them as reformers. But clearly, many natural leaders, including Eights, lead reforms when they are needed. Contrasting Ones such as Pope John Paul II, Ralph Nader, and Hilary Clinton with Eights such as Lee Iococca, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and Barbara Walters gives a vivid sense of their differences._


----------



## euro4

MindPersonified said:


> I actually identify very strongly with Snape, but then again, I am wondering whether my main gut type is an 8w9 or 1w9, as I am relatively new to Enneagram theory. I always test as a 5w6.
> .


Also, about Snape being a 6 rather than a 5, there is this description

_Misidentifying Fives and Sixes

Fives and Sixes are both Thinking types and, when educated, can both be quite intellectual. It is far more common for Sixes to mistype as Fives, but for some easily understood reasons. Of the two types, Sixes tend to be more linear and analytical in their thinking because they are interested in troubleshooting, in prediction, and in establishing methods that can be repeated. Thus, contrary to popular belief, the world of academia and higher education is more the realm of Sixes than of Fives. Academia teaches students to work with advisors and mentors, to cite sources and back up arguments with quotes from authorities, to follow proper procedures in papers and theses, and so forth–all type Six values.

Fives are much more non-linear in their thinking. They are interested in finding out where established theories break down and in developing iconoclastic ideas that shake up structures and established methods. Fives are, generally speaking, bolder than Sixes in their positions and creativity, but also far less practical. Fives feel that they can only trust their own minds to come to conclusions–they believe that everyone else is likely to be less well-informed. Sixes get frantic trying to find something to trust precisely because they do not trust their own minds to come to meaningful conclusions. The difference between them can be seen in the difference between Umberto Eco ( a Five) and Tom Clancy (a Six), or Peter Gabriel (a Five) and Bruce Springsteen (a Six)._


----------



## euro4

StellaG said:


> I'm a 529, and I saw the archetype is 259 and called the problem solver, but I don't think I saw how 529 is called. Can someone help me please?


The order of the tritype is important, and a 5 that can behave like a 2 is different than a 2 that can behave like a 5. Actually I find it an unusual combination 5 and 2, as they are kind of opposite regarding the relations with others (the 2 are invasively loving and helping others. all the contrary of 5's). By the way, your avatar motto is really a 5 theme, that understands the problems of invasive 2's.

If you want a label, I could propose:
*
529: The discreet and competent advisor*
Do yo like it?



madhatter said:


> 259 Problem Solver Archetype
> 
> 
> 2-5-9 - Because by 5-fix they rely on their experience to provide them with the rules which they can accomodate to, they expect a lot from the environment around them. Thus, this all combines to being incapable of admitting that they're environment has made a mistake (9-fix, it's uncomfortable to know that the thing you are relying on is unreliable. Or that it is impossible to accomodate to your environment, and thus be incapable of producing a "positive" image). For this reasons, 2-5-9s (and actually 2-9s really) have trouble admitting that there's something wrong with their environment, or have trouble blaming their environment for their issues. Logic mandates that if one is uncomfortable with where one is, one should run. And this might be exactly what a 2-9 may do. They may run from where they are to go to a place that they can more easily accomodate to. A problem may arise though when they can't really run from the truth. Running from the environment is in the end admitting that they can't accomodate to the rules of the environment. Thus, if this is something they aren't willing to accept, they may stay and try to learn more about their environment until it makes more coherent sense. In such a situation, as much as they'd like to flee, running is not an option.
> 
> 9-2s and 5-2s may have somewhat similar issues, but have their main focus be a lot less centered on "fitting in" and more on "calming down" or "finding out".
> 
> 5-2-9: this is a more generous, social and good-natured Five, who genuinely enjoys helping others out and being in a relationship with them. Although they do require their alone time, Fives of this tritype tend to be more personable and they make wonderful advisors and counselors as long as they can keep behind the scenes. They are rather attracted to human sciences (psychology, sociology) and have a natural flair for moderating conflicts and solving people’s problems.
> typical subtypes: social, 5w4
> similar tritypes: 5-9-2, 2-5-9
> flavours: friendly, understanding, cooperative and humanistic
> 
> 5-9-2: rather easy-going, modest and amiable, these Fives are usually pleasant to have around because of their friendly nature and deeper understanding of the human needs and frailties. They are less judgemental and critical than other Fives and prefer to focus on the better side of things and people and work on exploring and improving these. They also have a somewhat holistic approach to life’s problems and questions – they tend to prefer the general to the particular and aren’t always very scientifically thorough.
> typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w4
> similar tritypes: 5-2-9, 9-5-2
> flavours: agreeable, relaxed, friendly and spiritual


----------



## euro4

Snowflake Whisperer said:


> This really does sound like me.





StellaG said:


> I'm a 529, and I saw the archetype is 259 and called the problem solver, but I don't think I saw how 529 is called. Can someone help me please?





euro4 said:


> If you want a label, I could propose:
> *
> 529: The discreet and competent advisor*


 What label would you propose for the 529?


----------



## euro4

letter_to_dana said:


> I need to ask a question because I'm really having a hard time getting all these enneagram stuff... So i'm a bit confused. If my Ennegram sounds like this
> "4w5 6w5 1w9"
> My tritype is 461? Or 469?
> Or I'm really getting wrong the idea? Maybe it would be better to make a questionnarie...
> I've read the description of Type 4 and 469 in this topic and everything seems SOOO ACCURATE. Except the fact i'm not really pasive I'm pasive only when very dominant people are around me.


Your tritype would be 461, but if you fit better with the 9 type, maybe you should read the descriptions and find your type with it rather than with the automated test.

What type you feel more identified with, 1 or 9?

_Misidentifying Ones and Nines

Usually this mistype is caused by confusion about the wing and dominant type: is the person a Nine with a One-wing or a One with a Nine-wing? In some cases, with a strong wing, this can be a difficult call. Both can be idealistic, philosophical, and somewhat withdrawn. Neither feels comfortable with their anger. Usually, the Nine's reluctance to get into conflicts is the easiest way to discern these adjacent types. Average Nines want to maintain peace in their lives, and while they may hold strong personal convictions, they generally do not want to argue about them with people–especially people with whom they have an emotional attachment. For Ones, however, the principle is foremost, and Ones will drive home their point to convert the other to their view, even if it risks creating upsets and arguments. ("The truth is the truth.")

While Nines can be hard workers, it does not take much to convince them that a break would be useful. They enjoy down time, and tend to have difficulty shifting gears from relaxation to activity or vice versa. Ones are extremely driven and have difficulty tearing themselves away from their various projects to take a rest or relax. They feel anxious when they are not being productive (like Threes), and want to get back to work to avoid attacks from their superego.

Another distinction can be found in how the two types handle stress. Nines initially become more emotionally disengaged and resistant, but eventually become more anxious and reactive as they go to Six. Ones, initially become more fervent in their efforts to convince the other that they are right, but then collapse into moodiness and a tight-lipped testiness as they go to Four.

_


----------



## TTIOTBSAL

Thanks for the answer. 

I must say first, that I only rely on "typing" stuff, of any case, to get deeper into understanding, of myself, but others too, but that it's in no way, definitive to what I think in the end. Tendencies, from a tool, or not, don't make what a person is. 


I don't have any clear appreciation. I don't know the tools enough (like they were created), to have a clear answer. I like to have a clear answer though. Just wanting to know more. 

That said, I feel like a 5 more, because my fears, as it's put, are more relieved by having knowledge. But I feel strongly attracted to helping others, and connect to them in depth. And as, harmoniously as possible, although I believe sometimes a good talk, even if a bit aggressive, is a good thing, because people don't all interact the same way. 

I'm very torn between telling the truth, as it is, and not hurt others. In a way, that's a daily struggle. Sometimes one wins, (knowledge prevailing), sometimes not (heart prevailing). 

Thanks anyway, I appreciate you taking the time.


----------



## Flatlander

StellaG said:


> Thanks for the answer.
> 
> I must say first, that I only rely on "typing" stuff, of any case, to get deeper into understanding, of myself, but others too, but that it's in no way, definitive to what I think in the end. Tendencies, from a tool, or not, don't make what a person is.
> 
> 
> I don't have any clear appreciation. I don't know the tools enough (like they were created), to have a clear answer. I like to have a clear answer though. Just wanting to know more.
> 
> That said, I feel like a 5 more, because my fears, as it's put, are more relieved by having knowledge.


Why does having knowledge relieve your fears? What fear/s does it relieve?



> But I feel strongly attracted to helping others, and connect to them in depth.


What do you consider helping? How do you help? What do you use to connect, or think of as creating connection?

What do you get out of helping people?



> And as, harmoniously as possible, although I believe sometimes a good talk, even if a bit aggressive, is a good thing, because people don't all interact the same way.
> 
> I'm very torn between telling the truth, as it is, and not hurt others. In a way, that's a daily struggle. Sometimes one wins, (knowledge prevailing), sometimes not (heart prevailing).


What factor/s go into you not wanting to hurt others? Why do you want not to hurt others? Is there anyone particular you don't want to hurt, or are you talking about the general public?

When you finally do "tell the truth", why do you do it, or what allows you to do it?


----------



## TTIOTBSAL

Flatlander said:


> Why does having knowledge relieve your fears? What fear/s does it relieve?
> 
> 
> 
> What do you consider helping? How do you help? What do you use to connect, or think of as creating connection?
> 
> What do you get out of helping people?
> 
> 
> 
> What factor/s go into you not wanting to hurt others? Why do you want not to hurt others? Is there anyone particular you don't want to hurt, or are you talking about the general public?
> 
> When you finally do "tell the truth", why do you do it, or what allows you to do it?



Fear of not being able to predict things, not really, but mentally. Fear of making mistakes. Fear of not being able to stay calm in situation of crisis. 


Being of service for someone in need, without being stupid either (like you know the person is manipulating you into something, things like that...). Be there. Listen to the person. Give a hand to a friend to move his things to a new place. Give a hand in a shelter. I don't know for that one. I don't have the feeling to use anything. It's more, sensing it on the moment. Smile, be gentle. 

I feel harmony. A general harmony. Tensions released. That rarely lasts that is. 

It feels terrible to see someone hurt. I don't want to hurt anyone. There's one person in particular I want to hurt even less. 
I prefer to tell the truth because I think that gives the person well, the knowledge, and they can have the choice then. Of course that would need examples. It's more when it's someone close.


----------



## Flatlander

StellaG said:


> Fear of not being able to predict things, not really, but mentally. Fear of making mistakes. Fear of not being able to stay calm in situation of crisis.


Have you ever been in a situation where you couldn't predict things?

Why do you fear making mistakes?

Do you tend to not stay calm in crisis? How do you react natively?



> Being of service for someone in need, without being stupid either (like you know the person is manipulating you into something, things like that...). Be there. Listen to the person. Give a hand to a friend to move his things to a new place. Give a hand in a shelter. I don't know for that one.


The point of the Enneagram is uncovering your motivations for doing things. When I ask the question of what you get out of this, that's what I mean - what need does it fulfill in you to do this for people. 

For instance, does it make you feel secure when others are calm and satiated? If so, what about that makes you feel secure as opposed to when they aren't?

Or do you enjoy the influence you get over them when you fulfill their needs?

Etc. etc., there are many possible responses to this so don't consider it limited to these two.



> I don't have the feeling to use anything. It's more, sensing it on the moment. Smile, be gentle.


It sounds like you use your presence and your actions to achieve what you want.



> I feel harmony. A general harmony. Tensions released. That rarely lasts that is.


In general, do you tend to seek harmony?



> It feels terrible to see someone hurt. I don't want to hurt anyone. There's one person in particular I want to hurt even less.
> I prefer to tell the truth because I think that gives the person well, the knowledge, and they can have the choice then. Of course that would need examples. It's more when it's someone close.


I get the preference, but it sounds like an ideal. Which of these plays out more often or readily in reality - do you more often tell the truth in spite of consequences, or do you more often aim not to hurt people?


----------



## TTIOTBSAL

Flatlander said:


> Have you ever been in a situation where you couldn't predict things?
> 
> Why do you fear making mistakes?
> 
> Do you tend to not stay calm in crisis? How do you react natively?
> 
> 
> 
> The point of the Enneagram is uncovering your motivations for doing things. When I ask the question of what you get out of this, that's what I mean - what need does it fulfill in you to do this for people.
> 
> For instance, does it make you feel secure when others are calm and satiated? If so, what about that makes you feel secure as opposed to when they aren't?
> 
> Or do you enjoy the influence you get over them when you fulfill their needs?
> 
> Etc. etc., there are many possible responses to this so don't consider it limited to these two.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like you use your presence and your actions to achieve what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> In general, do you tend to seek harmony?
> 
> 
> 
> I get the preference, but it sounds like an ideal. Which of these plays out more often or readily in reality - do you more often tell the truth in spite of consequences, or do you more often aim not to hurt people?



Yes I have. I'm conscious you can't predict things just like it's going to be, but you can imagine the possibilities, and link things to what could make sense. Sometimes you just can't, because there's no situation. Something just happens. From there, there are things that just happen, and you knew they would happen one day or the other, but you still cheated yourself about the exact when. And there're things, you just can't know at all. 

About making mistakes, I think I have worth issues, and high standards, in the same time. But it wasn't like that, about that matter, before. It became that way. It took me time to realize it might be to impress "the wizard of Oz", so to speak. The unknown figure that might have been in your life. In this case probably my father, maybe adoped? The casual mistake of not telling me? 

I'm rarely internally entirely calm. At my place, alone, dim lights and music. It doesn't even have to be something emotional. I'm nervous physically, react too much to stimulation. Externally I tend to be calm yes. I was a pretty quiet child. From early memories I was a quiet calm child, until I get to live on regular basis with my parents (I lived a lot with my grand-parents before going to school, at 3, nothing to do with adoption or secrets or). I became quiet and anxious. From what I saw there too, and lived at school.Internal anxiety in situation generally doesn't keep me from doing what I have to do. But it can, then I suppose it surprises people around. 



Ok. I do not like at all controlling others. Just as I don't like to be controlled. I don't do things to tell people they owe me later, nor have that feeling. I'm afraid of pain, a general way. Mine sure, maybe more the pain from people I love. But it spreads to everybody. It's like touching someone when it's not necessary,I feel nothing or it's unpleasant, and touchng someone when they need to, and me. It feels like a relief, temporary at least. It's a half-metaphor. 
Your example is good. non violence, and actually genuine non violence, genuine calm, that you can feel in the room, from people, definitely makes me feel secure. I prefer someone loud but happy, feeling relaxed, than to be in a room with people who look calm, but you feel the tension, fear, discomfort, foating all around. 
If I can help, even about something little, or for a little while, it might make that someone else will be able to relax, to think, and improve their next moves. It's a relief to feel they're a bit better, or a relief to know it. And a relief to feel that general harmony, at least for a while. I know it's selfish, I believe everything is, even genuine selfless acts, or thoughts. I'm ok with it. It's difficult for me to have or do something just for me. Then I don't share my toothbrush, but it's not what I mean. 


About achieving what I want. I have to think about that one. It sounds like you're saying it's emotional manipulation. Which I really don't like. That's the kind of things that would freeze me dry into doing nothing at all. 

Do I seek harmony. I think I answered that one. 

It is an ideal. The more you know someone, the more you know what's going to be better to tell them, and how. Generally I tend to shut it. Unless I think there's a big issue, that could endanger someone's life, or have them be in trouble etc... But I would rather not hurt someone unnecessarily just to say it like it is for me. However, hard time not to tell the truth if asked something of an emotional matter directly. 


Thanks, it helps me process.


----------



## Flatlander

StellaG said:


> Yes I have. I'm conscious you can't predict things just like it's going to be, but you can imagine the possibilities, and link things to what could make sense. Sometimes you just can't, because there's no situation. Something just happens. From there, there are things that just happen, and you knew they would happen one day or the other, but you still cheated yourself about the exact when. And there're things, you just can't know at all.


That all is true. If you can't predict something, and knowledge won't help you deal, how does it feel inside? what do you do? What is your reaction?



> About making mistakes, I think I have worth issues, and high standards, in the same time. But it wasn't like that, about that matter, before. It became that way. It took me time to realize it might be to impress "the wizard of Oz", so to speak. The unknown figure that might have been in your life. In this case probably my father, maybe adoped? The casual mistake of not telling me?


Do your high standards manifest for others, yourself, or both? 

You suspect you were adopted? Did your parents encourage a low self-estimation when you were growing up, or did this come about somehow else?



> I'm rarely internally entirely calm. At my place, alone, dim lights and music. It doesn't even have to be something emotional. I'm nervous physically, react too much to stimulation. Externally I tend to be calm yes. I was a pretty quiet child. From early memories I was a quiet calm child, until I get to live on regular basis with my parents (I lived a lot with my grand-parents before going to school, at 3, nothing to do with adoption or secrets or). I became quiet and anxious. From what I saw there too, and lived at school.Internal anxiety in situation generally doesn't keep me from doing what I have to do. But it can, then I suppose it surprises people around.


How does it manifest for you internally to be not calm? Do you deal with racing or circular thoughts on topics? Emotional states? Etc., however you experience it for yourself.



> Ok. I do not like at all controlling others. Just as I don't like to be controlled. I don't do things to tell people they owe me later, nor have that feeling. I'm afraid of pain, a general way. Mine sure, maybe more the pain from people I love. But it spreads to everybody. It's like touching someone when it's not necessary,I feel nothing or it's unpleasant, and touchng someone when they need to, and me. It feels like a relief, temporary at least. It's a half-metaphor.


Do you perceive other emotions as spreading/contagious like that, or just pain? Is it correct to say pain/etc. comprises a bulk of your focus in your perception of the world? Is it correct to say you think pain/etc. are problematic, and that what you do is a form of emotional troubleshooting?



> Your example is good. non violence, and actually genuine non violence, genuine calm, that you can feel in the room, from people, definitely makes me feel secure. I prefer someone loud but happy, feeling relaxed, than to be in a room with people who look calm, but you feel the tension, fear, discomfort, foating all around.


So you are okay dealing with different states so long as their intent is coming from a better place.



> If I can help, even about something little, or for a little while, it might make that someone else will be able to relax, to think, and improve their next moves. It's a relief to feel they're a bit better, or a relief to know it. And a relief to feel that general harmony, at least for a while. I know it's selfish, I believe everything is, even genuine selfless acts, or thoughts. I'm ok with it. It's difficult for me to have or do something just for me. Then I don't share my toothbrush, but it's not what I mean.




That's fair.



> About achieving what I want. I have to think about that one. It sounds like you're saying it's emotional manipulation. Which I really don't like. That's the kind of things that would freeze me dry into doing nothing at all.


Technically, anything you do to change the emotional state of another is a form of "emotional manipulation". This is not to say it's a bad thing, but emotional manipulation can be done toward different ends. I'm seeing enough of a pattern in how and why you work the way you do on this front that by the end of responding here, I can and will suggest a type.



> Do I seek harmony. I think I answered that one.


I suppose you did. Sometimes your communication is formatted a little confusingly, which would be why I'd asked again, but it's fine, I got the gist.



> It is an ideal. The more you know someone, the more you know what's going to be better to tell them, and how. Generally I tend to shut it. Unless I think there's a big issue, that could endanger someone's life, or have them be in trouble etc... But I would rather not hurt someone unnecessarily just to say it like it is for me. However, hard time not to tell the truth if asked something of an emotional matter directly.


Thank you for responding honestly to that. It's good to know my perception was accurate.

Your approach is smart for your goal. And yes, if someone asks you directly, it probably means they're ready to hear what you really think.



> Thanks, it helps me process.


Not a problem.

So, you strike me as a phobic 6 + Feeling type. 

I see you have yourself typed at INFJ which I would say is likely to be accurate - you definitely come off as aux Fe in both the socionics sense and the JCF one. The way you perceive the world, i.e. pain spreading from person to person, is a very Fe-colored way of looking at things, and it being seen as a principle through Ni also makes sense.

Add a p6 to this, give it a w5, producing a reserved person who keeps their mental gyrations and reactions inside and kind of turns back on themself, which is part of what I think I see in you. You definitely seem to be fear-based, as Enneagram goes, and your relative comfort with others' reactions also tells me you are likely to be a reactive type yourself (6 is in the reactive triad), etc. Also put a 9 fix in there, yielding even more sensitivity to what disrupts the harmony. And a 2 fix, furthering the bent toward helping others. It seems like you have a pretty gentle way with others, too, and it looks like you kind of swallow your own problems?, which is right in line with what I'm thinking so far for your type. 

So INFJ p6w5, 692.

I don't have a lot of time to go into more depth right now, but if you're interested, feel free to respond or even just PM me. I'll get back to you later on.


----------



## TTIOTBSAL

Flatlander; said:


> I don't have a lot of time to go into more depth right now, but if you're interested, feel free to respond or even just PM me. I'll get back to you later on.



It's ok, I'm already grateful you've taken the time. It helps me. 

I'll take your offer, and answer you in private, about what you wrote here. 

You answer when you have the time really.Thanks.


----------



## euro4

EclecticTeal said:


> I consider myself to be very patient, but people who know me consider me to be very impatient, so I guess it depends on your point of view.
> 
> Although I have tested as 9w1 before, I think 5w6 is a better fit. 9 is the peacekeeper, and I can tell you that if there is an argument going on anywhere around me, it is _very _hard for me to not join in. I don't set out to cause problems, and maybe I'm arguing in order to reach a peace, but the descriptions I've read just don't seem to fit me that well, while the healthier 5w6 descriptions sound pretty close.
> 
> I'm not all that familiar with enneagram... Can you tell me if it's possible to be both 5w6 and 9w1? Does or can your enneagram change?





Flatlander said:


> You can have what's called a trifix (or "tritype"), where one core is at the head and there are two others that support it in structure - so one from each 'center' of gut, heart and head.
> 
> Looking at 9 as the 'peacemaker' is a superficial perspective at best. I'd advise you to read deeper and get to understand the mechanics of how enneagram types in general, as well as each type, work - and what a core really means and implies - instead of simply going off what you relate to from a superficial description, because what you relate to may not help you see as deeply into yourself and your real existential issues, which is more within the enneagram's purview/purpose.


Allow me to take this discussion to this tritype thread. @EclecticTeal, I have not found THE way to find out the tritype. The most important part is to know your fundamental type, and according to what you say, that would be 5. I think the best way to know is to look at the unhealthy levels of the enneatypes and see how you would go unhealthy.

So, on the "head" center (types 5,6,7) you would be a 5
on the "guts" center (types 8,9,1) you would be a 9
and you need to find how you behave on the "image" or "heart" center (types 2,3,4). 

For instance, if you determine that you are a 3 on the "heart" triad, you would be in the 359 archetype (The Thinker) and more specifically a 593. 

Tests often give unreliable results, and you need to know more "deeply" your dominant type and tritype (for instance, I am a 451 and get always tested as a 5, and I am such a 4, with all the positive and negative patterns). Some other people around here may be more competent in finding out tritype and give good tips.

You can find more descriptions at the beginning of this thread, as well as on the16types.info: Tritype archetypes and variant descriptions

* *







madhatter said:


> 359 Thinker Archetype
> 
> 359
> intellectual and clever, you find amiable and pleasant ways to manage difficult situations and relationships. often shy, you are slow to fully trust others and need time to more fully reveal yourself.
> 
> your life mission is to use your ability to unite opposing points of view, find compromise and create workable solutions. a true advocate (also, thinker), you are happiest when you can use your skills to be helpful and judicial.
> 
> your blind spot is that you can be so reserved that your true nature remains hidden and underexpressed which can cause you to appear aloof and indifferent. to feel in control, you may use withholding and punishment.
> 
> your growing edge is to recognize that your need to pull away and be a spectator before engaging denies you the opportunity to more fully be. true wisdom comes from following your higher guidance, revealing yourself to others and participating in life.
> 
> The 135, 358, and 359 tritypes are naturally inclined to be tenacious and persistent.
> I'd say that I show persistence in regard to goals and ideas, pursuing them until I'm satisfied I've learned all I can from a particular pursuit (3) or avenue of inquiry (5). And with people as well: I tend never to give up on people. I tend to avoid conflict and wait (often passively) for the other person to "come around." (9)
> 359s are very incognito for the most part....but the 3 wants the attention even if the 5 and 9 are reluctant.. It is an interesting dichotomy.
> 
> The 3,5 and 9 all conceal who they are in favor of who they think they need to be. 3 adapts to their environment to give us their best image, the 5 wants camouflage to hide detection to feel safe and the 9 wants to match their environment and go along to get along. The 359 needs to adjust to avoid detection and scrutiny.
> 
> the 359 is private and introspective and often pairs with a more assertive outgoing type like the 1 or 8.
> 
> I have to laugh as the 359s may not want to respond. They have reported a strong sensitivity to exposure.
> I think 3-5-9 may expose him or her self if it is done say in one's writing in the name of academic or theological inspiration to others. We might describe our Dark Nights; however, immediately rush ahead to the good part where we overcame the darkness with our keen and wise mind and all is hunky dory now.
> 
> Calling all 359s... do you notice the need to conceal your true feelings from others?
> I feel the need to conceal my true feelings from myself.
> I smile when I read this. It is amazing to me that other 359s have something very similar. I need to add that 359s have a great sense of humor that is dry and witty.
> The above is actually a true statement. I really have a difficult time with feelings. I feel things like enthusiasm, bursts of love and insight, and discomfort. There is a person in my life that makes me feel really upset. Instead of sadness or anger; whenever she comes around I get a migraine...
> Do we have feelings?
> Yes... or so I am told, tucked away in separate locked boxes.
> 
> The 935, or 539 is a very mediating tritype, this is the person who wants to mediate conflict amongst people in a detached way, less inclined to be fluid and artistic but is rather personable and detached. You can get kind of a robotic feel much like the 531.
> 
> 359 Tritype is very hidden.
> 
> 935 tritype: calm, composed, professional and slightly hidden
> 
> The sx 359 is as you describe...It is the shy 3 that is more covert and internal but still has a great need to be seen and admired for achievements... and focuses on being the ideal image of femininity (or masculinity).
> 
> (3)-5-9 - The Withdrawn 3
> 3-(5)-9 - The Normative 5
> 3-5-(9) - The Competent 9
> 
> This tritype is a dreamer of sorts, but also somewhat intellectual. They have many ideas of what they would like to happen in their life, and may construct plans to accomplish it, but an isolationist.
> 
> Another example; if someone is a 3, they may have a tritype of 3-5-9. This means that once the 3 has exhausted their main type strategies (image maintenance, solution orientation, efficiency, self promotion, etc) they will move to the head center and utilize the strategies of the 5 (cerebral reflection, theorizing, withdrawal, and avarice, etc.) in order to gain the results they need. If 5 strategies don’t work they may move to the strategies of the 9 (placating, merging, passive aggression, etc). It has been my experience that the tritype seems to play itself out most obviously in relationship with others..
> 
> Another 9 may have the 935 or "The Thinker" Tritype that will present very differently according to Fauvre. The 935 will utilize the Type 9 strategy as dominant, but after exhausting wings and lines of connection will move to Type 3 and become more expedient, professional or image focused, and then to Type 5 and become more cerebral, remote and concealed. This Tritype combination will seem significantly different than the 927.
> 
> A 9-5-3 would be the kind of 9 who is more intellectual (5), perfectionistic and focused on efficiency (3) with less of an emphasis on maintaining harmonious relationships than other 9s.
> 
> 5-9-3: Most success-oriented Five. Needs prestige, especially if SOC.
> 
> five with a nine fix: pattern seeking above all. whimsical exploration,
> disposition of reluctant idealist. open minded,
> philosophical perspective. can seem to lack focus
> while associating groupings of information into larger
> theories. likes people and humanity as a whole,
> shares ideas and is relatively easy to get along with.
> 
> 5-3-9: these Fives might strike others as rather pleasant and cooperative persons, but they are usually more ambitious and purposeful than they let on. They are goal-oriented individualists who dream of achieving an impressive and long-lasting success in their field – they secretly desire becoming famous and leaving their mark on the world. These Fives are also more dependent on outer validation than others – they care more about their image and the way others perceive and react to them, therefore they might seem a little more conventional and mainstream in their behavior.
> typical subtypes: social, self-preserving, balanced wings
> similar tritypes: 5-9-3, 9-5-3
> flavours: cunning, congenial, goal-oriented and flexible
> 
> 5-9-3: these Fives are naturally diplomatic, peaceful and somewhat charismatic. They care about harmony and balance and are a bit anxious of people’s rejection and disapproval. Very sentient and tactful, they know how to reach their objectives without causing much fuss around them – they go with the flow and adapt to people and situations in a facile manner. They’re the type of people that others don’t see coming, skillfully speculating opportunities to their advantage while keeping a low profile.
> typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w6
> similar tritypes: 5-3-9, 9-5-3
> flavours: tactful, well-mannered, collected and adaptable







You have lengthy videos like this one


----------



## Texas

euro4 said:


> Allow me to take this discussion to this tritype thread. @_EclecticTeal_, I have not found THE way to find out the tritype. The most important part is to know your fundamental type, and according to what you say, that would be 5. I think the best way to know is to look at the unhealthy levels of the enneatypes and see how you would go unhealthy.


While it's not a perfect fit, it is fairly close: 5-4-1.

(This also matches the wings tests results I sent you, specifically: 5w6 4w5 1w9).

Thanks for all your help! Sorry I'm not a 9.


----------



## euro4

EclecticTeal said:


> While it's not a perfect fit, it is fairly close: 5-4-1.
> 
> (This also matches the wings tests results I sent you, specifically: 5w6 4w5 1w9).
> 
> Thanks for all your help! Sorry I'm not a 9.


I am 4w5 5w6 1w9, although in the test provided here as a link I tested 5w6 4w5 1w9 just like you! Should I be sorry for you to have this tritype? :shocked: And also an INTJ ...

4-(5)-1 - The Idealistic 5

Inside the The Researcher Archetype, do you see more reflected in the 514 or 541?

* *







madhatter said:


> 145 – The Researcher Archetype
> 
> Both the 451 and 459 are reserved and introspective and self conscious. The 451 is very critical of themselves and others.They are very particular and have a lot of shoulds. They can be strident. Dissatisfaction is visible as their energy can be prickly. The 459 is more reserved and passive. They wait to be included. They are approachable but hope that others will come towards them. They are quiet in their demeanor. They project a sense of stillness. Their energy is soft and yielding. Dissatisfaction is hidden like in the 479.
> 
> 145
> If you are a 145, you are diligent, intuitive, and knowledgeable. You want to be ethical, original and wise. Highly intellectual, you are focused on what you perceive is correct and above reproach. Research oriented, you seek and quote the opinions of experts to avoid being seen as ignorant.
> 
> Your life mission is to study and learn as much as you can and then teach the wisdom of what you have learned to others. A true researcher, you are happiest using your investigative skills.
> 
> You can be so identified with the information that you have gathered and the correct way of doing things that you feel exhausted and can appear to be a persnickety know it all.
> 
> 478 and 451 are very different types of 4. The 478 is intensely individualistic and more assertive whereas the 451 is individualistic but much more introspective and reserved. The 478 is somewhat optimistic and focuses more on the need for inspiration than the 451. The 451 is more particular and is more motivated by gathering meaningful information that is useful.
> 
> 514 is also anxious especially with the 6 wing.
> 
> (4)-5-1 - The Competent 4
> 4-(5)-1 - The Idealistic 5
> 4-5-(1) - The Withdrawn 1
> 
> Intellectual. May be involved in philosophy. They enjoy coming to understand themselves and their world.
> 
> 5-1-4: Most particular Five, especially if SP. Tends to hesitate.
> 
> 15-4 : Researcher -> trying to bring his own personal findings and explorations to the world
> Calling all 145s... You have reported a strong need to be above criticism and to avoid the glare of judgment and scrutiny. You have also reported how difficult it is for you to express yourself especially if you feel emotional.
> 
> As a 415, you would need to carve a distinct image of being unique, appropriate and wise. The 3 together create a defense strategy that focuses on getting the information needed 'to be correct' to feel safe... No one wants to be wrong, but this Tritype tends to easily feel self-conscious and can be shy. So, the 145 researches to have something interesting to say and to be above criticism.
> 
> The 514 holds themselves to the same standards but does so more from a distance. When the 5 is dominant, information becomes even more of a defense strategy. Knowledge is power and a unique perspective with diligence creates a hardworking 5 that seeks creativity...often artistic endeavors are kept private...especially if self-pres. The sexual/one to one tends to secretly pine and the social finds small elite groups that she their interests... many do so one the internet as their are fewer entanglements.
> 
> The 415's I know are most capable of intellectual circumspection with a twist of the romantic and mysterious. They seem to balance out the emotional realm with the intellectual, but sometimes my 415 friends can be overly critical and defiant of any thing that is stereotypical or oppressive that could impact their search for an ideal mate...Another thing about the 415s I know is they are very perfectionist, overly sensitive to any perceived stereotyping, and an academically-minded four, but they never quite feel self-satisfied or finished, sometimes falling into long states of procrastination...They have an amazing ability to dissect their own emotions rationally...
> 
> Think Frustration (1-4) meets Competence (1-5) meets Withdrawing (4-5)and you get a rather persnickety perfectionist who needs plenty of downtime. On the high side what they produce can be of unparalleled depth and beauty.
> 
> out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.
> 
> 451 is the most 5ish 4. Rational and scientific.
> 
> 451 - knowledgeable and discerning 4. Most intellectual 4, especially if social subtyle of with a 5 wing. Likes to teach.
> 
> five with a one fix: focused, serious tone. critical outlook. theme of
> sacrifice, dissolves wholly into their projects.
> special interest in knowledge, skill, and discoveries
> to improve health, society, the future, and the like.
> concerned for others in the abstract; difficult to get
> close to.
> 
> 1-4-5 : a rather introverted and withdrawn One, more creative, original and abstract than most. Prefers the realm of imagination and has very high ideals and standards, especially in what concerns romantic relationships. They’re harder to get to know because they can be very reserved, moody and somewhat picky. They have artistic inclinations and can be quite whimsical and creative. Tend to feel overwhelmed by the real world and hide in their own perfect worlds of fantasy. Prone to bouts of existential depression.
> usual subtypes: self-preserving, sexual, 1w9
> similar tritypes: 1-5-4, 4-1-5
> flavours: solitary, melancholic, critical and whimsical
> 
> 1-5-4 : a reserved, cerebral and fairly intuitive One, who has a preference for the realm of the thought and the abstract. They can be very theoretical and philosophical and like to be alone and ponder things for a long time. They have a developed imagination and a deep insight into the nature of things and people. Mainly isolationists, they have a tendency towards spareness and austerity and are generally economical and even avaritious. At times experience gloomy moods which they strangely enjoy.
> usual subtypes: self-preserving, 1w9
> similar tritypes: 1-4-5, 5-1-4
> flavours: theoretical, philosophical, hoarding and insightful
> 
> 5-4-1: these Fives are perhaps the most typical of this type’s usual description – they’re withdrawn, imaginative, ingenious, detail-oriented and sensitive. Very intelligent and creative but also somewhat capricious, fussy and impractical, they have explicit standards of intellectual ability and artistic taste and tend to reject and ridicule anything and anyone that doesn’t rise up to them. Typical isolationists who feel misunderstood by society, they hide in their ivory tower of ideas and ideals, abstractly reconstructing reality according to their own terms.
> typical subtypes: self-preserving, sexual, 5w4
> similar tritypes: 4-5-1, 1-5-4
> flavours: individualistic, elegant, inventive and nit-picking
> 
> 5-1-4: these Fives stand out by being rather fussy - they’re pretentious and perfectionist and can be highly demanding of their environment. Idealistic and principled, these Fives can be very criticizing and rejecting of people and situations that do not meet their standards – many would call them fastidious. To a certain extent, they believe themselves to be superior and different from others - misunderstood but brilliant. Indeed their intellect, insightfulness and logical thinking, as well as their physical and emotional fragility contribute to an overly cerebral image.
> typical subtypes: self-preserving, 5w4, 5w6
> similar tritypes: 1-5-4, 5-4-1
> flavours: principled, precise, finicky and sensitive


----------



## Texas

euro4 said:


> I am 4w5 5w6 1w9, although in the test provided here as a link I tested 5w6 4w5 1w9 just like you! Should I be sorry for you to have this tritype? :shocked: And also an INTJ ...
> 
> 4-(5)-1 - The Idealistic 5
> 
> Inside the The Researcher Archetype, do you see more reflected in the 514 or 541?
> 
> * *


From the short paragraphs listed, I really can't tell... leaning slightly more to 514 based on this, but some of the other information I read on 541 sounded more accurate. I'll have to research this more, I think.


----------



## frozenmusic

madhatter said:


> 5-3-8: more ambitious, competitive and assertive than others, these Fives stand out through their leadership abilities. They are rather good at managing people and know how to employ their powers and competencies in order to obtain an effective result. Pragmatic, goal-oriented and driven, but also a tad arrogant and egotistical, they know how to influence a situation to their advantage. And yet, although they are proficient in authority positions, others can find them quite unsympathetic and self-interested, with very little interest in people who cannot be of clear use to them.
> flavours: self-confident, pragmatic, hard-working and narcissistic


Yep, that's me.


----------



## LibertyPrime

*4<->6<->8 -The truth teller**, best video illustration I found:*


----------



## NYEnglishRose

*ou are a Type 6 with a 5 wing: "The Defender"*
Your trifix is 6w5, 9w1, 2w3.

In enneagram theory, you have one type for how you relate to the world (either 8, 9, or 1), one type for how you think (5, 6, 7) and one type for how you see yourself (2, 3, 4.) Your tri-fix contains one number from each of these triads. They are listed in the order of how strongly they present in your personality. 

*Your core type (your strongest type) is Type 6 with a 5 wing:* Type Six individuals are reliable, committed, and security-oriented. They are natural troubleshooters, and are always aware of potential problems. This makes the Type Six anxious, but the anxiety fuels them to resolve their problems. They can range from loyal to rebellious, depending on where they get their security from – if the security is from within, they can be very defiant… if it comes from others, they can be very cooperative and devoted. When a Type Six is in a growth state, they become calm like a Type Nine. When they are stressed, they can become arrogant like an unhealthy Type Three. You are a Type Six with a Five wing, which means that the committed nature of the Six combines with the cerebral nature of the Type Five. As a result, you often excel at concrete thinking and troubleshooting.

*Your second type (your next strongest type) is Type 9 with a 1 wing:* Nines are receptive, easygoing, and loveable. Out of all the types in the Enneagram, they have a special ability to get along with others. For this reason, they’re often skilled mediators, resolving conflicts both within themselves and among others. Nines value peace, especially inner peace, very highly. When in a state of growth, Nines become energetic and driven like Type Threes. When stressed, Nines become anxious like an unhealthy Type Six. You are a Type Nine with a One wing, which means that the harmonious traits of the Type Nine merge with the idealistic nature of the Type One. You have an idealized view of the world, and your drive toward harmony is one way to fulfill that dream.

*Your third type (the least-used of the three) is Type 2 with a 3 wing:* Type Two individuals are generous and kind. Twos love others and want to be loved, and becoming close to others is a theme in the life of the Two. This is why Two is often referred to as the Helper type – because they keep coming, time and time again, to the aid of others. Out of all the types in the Enneagram, Twos are the most likely to help someone when they’re feeling down or when they’re being attacked. When a Type Two is stressed, they can become aggressive like an unhealthy Type Eight. When they’re healthy, a Type Two becomes emotionally aware like a healthy Type Four. You are a Type Two with a Three wing, which means that the helpful nature of the Two combines with the ambitious nature of the Three, making you a very driven individual.

Some words that describe you: relaxed, peaceful, harmonious, generous, helpful, selfless, loving, loyal, reliable, anxious, skeptical.


----------



## Math geek

Thank you, that is right on! I have thought of myself as being somewhat agreeable but my life is most active on the inside. I almost never engage in conflict.


----------



## tanstaafl28

I'd love to know why my tritype (458) doesn't have a fancy video on Youtube by Katherine Fauvre?


----------



## calirogue

madhatter said:


> 469 Seeker Archetype
> 
> If you are 469, you are intuitive, inquisitive and accepting. You want to be original, certain and peaceful. You are a very sensitive and can experience intense feelings of self-doubt and uncertainty. As a result you need multiple sources of confirmation. You want to be individualistic but can fear being separate from others.
> 
> Your life mission is to raise the questions pertaining to the mysteries of life and share your findings with others. A true seeker, you are happiest when you feel you can answer the question of who you are.
> 
> You can be so focused on your feelings, insecurities and doubts that you can feel paralyzed by the fear of making the wrong decision and of being misled or duped.
> 
> The 469 is a seeker with a lot of self doubt. There is always more to learn when you are this tritype but the desire is to develop a philosophy. the 6 and 4 have the most self doubt along with the 9.
> 
> 9s fear being in conflict. 479 vs 469. Look at the level of confidence and optimism. The 7 brings a light touch with magical thinking, hoping for the best. In contrast, the 6 brings support and loyalty. Both are highly intuitive but the 469 has more doubts - The 479 is more future oriented, focusing on the possibilities. The 469 is more dutiful with a heavier heart, fearing that they can't make enough of a difference.
> ‎*469s report a fear of making ten wrong decision and then having feelings of painful self consciousness and shame for having done so.... But also for not making a decision.*
> 
> All 3 types have a little paralysis through analysis. And all 3 hate conflict. ) The 469 experiences extreme self doubt and hesitates more than other 4s. It is a shy 4 but they do have their own opinions...they are just reluctant to voice them. The 649 has the greatest difficulty trusting their own thoughts and tends to seek multiple confirmations before making decisions. *The 964 is plagued with indecision too and can look like a 6 but they are not as inclined to seek opinions from others. They just avoid the conflict hoping it will resolve itself.*
> *
> The 469 is the most doubting tritype regardless which type is in charge*. It is also the tritype that most struggles with a constant sense of self. They can also be somewhat passive. The only tritype more passive is the 269. The 269 is happier in presentation.
> 
> Regarding doubt for the 469: I think Katherine said that the 4 has self-doubt, the 6 doubts themselves and others and *the 9 has the believer/doubter dichotomy*.
> 
> the 649 (or 469 *964*) want peace harmony and gentleness. They are sensitive and doesn't know what to trust and in particular doesn't know what to trust in themselves. She stated that the 6 is more often than not phobic and needs multiple sources of confirmation and information. They don't feel they can rebound from emotional pain so they tend to avoid it through the questioning process and end up finding more questions.
> 
> 4-6-(9) - *The Reactive 9
> This tritype has many self-confidence problems. They may often feel as though they need help from others, but that they are unable to get it. They fight between needing others and striving for seclusion.*
> 
> 6-4-9
> Accepting, intuitive, most emotional and passive, can think they are a 2 or a sexual subtype. Most doubting 6.
> This will often explain why non 6s that are not self-preserving wonder why they run high anxiety. For example, *the 9 or 4 with the 469 tritype has the 3 types that feel doubt.* Doubt breeds insecurity which increases anxiety. The gift of this tritype is the ability to search for meaning. What begins as doubt ultimates brings a great deal of knowledge that can lead to greater understanding.
> 
> _946: Intuitive and inquisitive 9. Most inclined to hesitate and feel doubt and uncertainty. Most gentle, passive 9. High anxiety._
> 
> The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, targeted, chaos, conflict, being loveless, complication, discord, being shutout, inharmonious, being inadequate, emotionally cut off, ordinary, commonplace, being abandoned.
> 
> Anxiety and worry increase with the 1 and *doubt and uncertainty with the 9*. Examine your motivations rather than your behaviors. This is especially difficult for the 6, but more so for the 649 as all 3 types tend to doubt as a defense strategy. This is the Tritype that is most reluctant to take a stand for their "own" opinion until they are angry.
> 
> I'm 649 too...some days 469, and some *964*
> My mind automatically scans for rejection, conflict, and inclusion/exclusion, whenever I'm focusing on *me* (for example putting myself 'out there' with my music - which is my absolute heart and soul). Whenever my self and esteem and worth is on the line, whenever I've made a personal *effort* to engage or simply self-express to others, I'm basically a wreck.
> However if attention is not on me, I'm fine...often one with nature, internalizing the world, being receptive and in touch with my inner self, entertaining myself with my mind, desires, fantasy...I can do that in my own privacy and on my own terms and I'm happy to not need others. But I'm too often pulled to find myself in the world (and show myself to it) to stay isolated for long. I can (and often do) get passive and can let a lot of years go by spinning on the same ungroundedness, not really pushing myself out there for fear of rejection and not being what I envision myself to be (wish to be). I have a lot of 'go along' energy that I fall back on when I need emotional and psychic rest.


I just wanted to thank you for writing as much detail as you did, as it's helped me confirm I'm a 964 (wish there was more about that order specifically but there's so much information about the tritype in general I can still see it's my type).


----------



## tanstaafl28

calirogue said:


> I just wanted to thank you for writing as much detail as you did, as it's helped me confirm I'm a 964 (wish there was more about that order specifically but there's so much information about the tritype in general I can still see it's my type).


I think most of this was copied right from a book written by Katherine Fauvre (the book has the same name as this thread title). You can order it from Amazon, or directly from the source, here.


----------



## calirogue

tanstaafl28 said:


> I think most of this was copied right from a book written by Katherine Fauvre (the book has the same name as this thread title). You can order it from Amazon, or directly from the source, here.


I'm still glad they put it up here.


----------



## tanstaafl28

calirogue said:


> I'm still glad they put it up here.


I am too. I thought you might like to know where to get the source material. It has some stuff that's not here.


----------



## calirogue

tanstaafl28 said:


> I am too. I thought you might like to know where to get the source material. It has some stuff that's not here.


What I'll probably do is put it on a wishlist, mull over it for months, and maybe get it for Christmas because that's when I feel more comfortable "indulging".


----------



## madhatter

calirogue said:


> I just wanted to thank you for writing as much detail as you did, as it's helped me confirm I'm a 964 (wish there was more about that order specifically but there's so much information about the tritype in general I can still see it's my type).





tanstaafl28 said:


> I think most of this was copied right from a book written by Katherine Fauvre (the book has the same name as this thread title). You can order it from Amazon, or directly from the source, here.


All of the Fauvre material that's included here was collected from around the web, where it had been reposted on forums, etc. I wrote none of it. Just compiled it.


----------



## tanstaafl28

madhatter said:


> All of the Fauvre material that's included here was collected from around the web, where it had been reposted on forums, etc. I wrote none of it. Just compiled it.


And we thank you for your efforts. It is a very useful reference.


----------



## calirogue

madhatter said:


> All of the Fauvre material that's included here was collected from around the web, where it had been reposted on forums, etc. I wrote none of it. Just compiled it.


Thank you for your honesty. Still, I appreciate all that you compiled.


----------



## MNiS

madhatter said:


> 278, *782*, 827 - The Free Spirit: You like to use your charming, sunny disposition to create an upbeat, positive, and action-packed environment. You are also very nurturing to those in your circle of care. Your life mission is to be an instrument of change, transforming difficult situations into moments of inspiration. A true free spirit, you are happiest when you are on the go and helping others to learn to act on their own behalf. Your blind spot is that you can be so focused on keeping everything positive and honest that you can be too aggressive and fail to recognize the importance of difficult emtions. You also keep busy and in motion to avoid painful feelings. Your growing edge is to recognize that you need to always be postivie, upbeat, and free can limit your ability to self reflect and fully be yourself. True happiness and joy come from being present to your higher self and experiencing all of your emotions.


Accurate!


----------



## Pinkeyed

This post is awesome. Where could I find more information about tritypes anyway?


----------



## Miss Prince

The 469 archetype was something I identified with to the point of beyond what I can verbally explain to people. It was highly accurate. I'm thankful you took the time to write all of this.

Especially when it comes to the conflicting and doubting area of the types. I think people of my archetype don't always plainly see this happening. But it's there, 4s and 9s conflict each other within the self(identity versus lack thereof), 4s and 6s are reactive(against 9s indolent attitude.) All 3 of these types are attachment types, making it somewhat complex as to how a 469 goes about any situation concerning such. I could go on and on about the dichotomies that this archetype can hold, but I'll spar that for something else.

Also, the 'on the fence' thing about everything; is quite true for me. I'm in the middle of thinking where I'm a 9 or 4, but I honestly think 9s gets more in depth to who I am. (People who've known me for awhile confirm the same belief) What would you say about a 9 leading in the 469 seeker archetype? Anything in specific?


----------



## The King Of Dreams

@madhatter thank you so much for posting this. I'm a 972 tritype and it was very informative.


----------



## katherine8

I really hope that more of you can participate in my research study correlating Type, Tritype, Instinctual Type and MBTI. I need a very large sample to confirm patterns. 

If you are willing to participate, this is the link:
Survey : Greeting

Focus of Study
The focus of this research is an ongoing study of the Enneagram Types, which when correlated with Tritype, Instinctual Type and MBTI, produce predictable patterns of thinking, perceiving and behaving, that can potentially explain the sources of common mistyping, and/or differences within type.

My interest is in gaining a rich and complex understanding of people’s experience of being their Enneagram Type, Tritype, Instinctual Type and MBTI and the meaning they assign to these types rather than simply validating a theory or hypothesis. The approach I prefer is mostly focused on the social constructivist paradigm, which stresses the socially constructed nature of reality as an ongoing, dynamic process. It is about recording, analyzing and attempting to uncover the deeper meaning and significance of human behavior and experience, including contradictory beliefs, behaviors and emotions. 

The Process
This research is both qualitative and quantitate in approach. I do not base my research on pre-determined hypotheses, nevertheless, I am guided by an overarching theory that a correlation between these systems exists, which provided a general basis for my investigation.
I prefer this type of data collection and analysis because it is methodical but allows for greater flexibility than quantitative research. Most of the data is collected in the form of questions, observation and interaction with the participants e.g. through participant interviews and/or focus groups. 

Principles
I believe that people are always trying to give meaning to their experiences. Therefore, I have not found it useful to limit a study to my view or understanding of the situation as I learn the most from the experiences of the participants. As a result, the methods I use are more open-ended and more exploratory (particularly when very little is known about a particular subject). This way, I am free to go beyond the initial response that the participant gives and to ask why, how, in what way, etc., and then tailor follow up questions to the participant’s responses.

If you are willing to participate, this is the link:
Survey : Greeting


----------



## Kitfool

MindPersonified said:


> I think Severus Snape is a 548. By the way, if you're a Potterhead, what tritype do you think Dumbledore is?


lol I know you posted this a long-ass time ago, but I have been thinking a lot about this lately...I think Snape is 145 and Dumbledore is 147 (not sure which order). Just personally. I did also consider 458 for Snape, but I think he is more 1 than 8. And Dumbledore could maybe be a 479 but yeah I think more 1 than 9. 

The names even make sense. Snape the researcher and Dumbledore the visionary.


----------



## Phoebe Zhang

What about the 8-7-3? You seemed not so sure about this type?


----------



## Jackson Holiday Wheeler

Kitfool: Snape is definitely the 145 - I would say the order is 451, and his wings are 4w5 5w6 1w9. He seems almost like he's 5 first at times, but really it's because of the 5 wing on the 4. There certainly is a strong 6 wing on the 5 - loyalty is a strong theme in his life, whether it be to his mother, to Lily, to Voldemort, to Dumbledore...his loyalties are constantly determining his life. As for the 1, it's certainly got a 9 wing - he is in his own idealistic world to a certain extent, rather than thinking in moral way for the sake of others.

As for Dumbledore, I've always thought he was a 5. He has that intensely cerebral sort of vibe, and the strange, quirky humor of the 5. I used to think he was 592, because of how he always seeks to resolve conflict and his help for Harry. But considering the motives for his behavior as a young man, he must be the 539 or 593. He has that general aura of perfection and grandeur that can come with the 3, but also the gentleness of the 9.


----------



## Jackson Holiday Wheeler

PS I understand your idea of 147 for Dumbledore, considering the wings I would say he has: 5w6 3w4 9w1. The uniqueness of his personal style and expression, coming from the 4 wing and of course the 5, combined with his 1 wing, can give the impression of the 147. But in the end the 147 is much more volatile and emotional than Dumbledore. He's too unflappable to be the 147.


----------



## galactic collision

As a 741, that tritype doesn't seem right for Dumbledore.

And I can't see Dumbledore as having 4 anywhere in his tritype when 2 and 3 feel so present in his behavior. What about 258? 2w3 5w4 8w7 (or 8w9 is a possibility too).

Of course, I don't love Dumbledore. He's gentle, but he's so manipulative. Power-hungry. Allows a lot of bad to go on under his nose until the second it becomes significant "for the greater good" - a mantra he never really lets go, even if he renounced it when he defeated Grindelwald.

Unrelated: I've been thinking a lot recently about how as an ENFP I sometimes find that ENFJ descriptions also resonate with me even though we share none of the same functions. I think one of the reasons for this is my enneagram type - ENFJs are often described as the lions of MBTI, brave, and blame it on the 6 wing but I long to be described that way (I'm also a self-identified, Pottermore-approved Gryffindor). And they're described as highly moralistic and a bit preachy about the way they want the world to be, and very thoughtful speakers. I think that's also very true of myself, and I suspect it has to do with my 1 fix, which I suppose is rare for an ENFP (147 is apparently a rare tritype too) and the fact that I'm so/sx. I don't know. I mean I know for sure I am an ENFP, but I think the reason I consider myself more focused may have to do with my tritype, especially the 1 in my tritype that keeps me grounded and constantly self-aware.


----------



## licidoydoy

sodden said:


> Actually, edit #2. That would be because I'm a 417...
> 
> Funny how the wrong tritype description doesn't fit. But frustrated idealist sure does!


Hello sodden,

You still think you're a 147?

I'm a 4, too, and I've now finally come to the conclusion that my tritype is 4-7-1

I would love to talk to you about how it manifests in your daily life and mainly also how it affects your core 4.

I'm a 4w5 by the way 

Look forward to reading from you


----------



## mirrorghost

just have to say, thanks so much for this post! i have been unable to definitively find my tritype, but now i've got it narrowed down to a few, all of which i see parts of myself in. upon further reflection i hope i can figure it out. i've been fairly confident that i am a 4-5-_ but now i'm not totally sure. and definitely not sure about that last number, but hope i can figure it out soon...


----------



## lumostartarus

My tritype is 857 is it legit?


----------



## Ardielley

lumostartarus said:


> My tritype is 857 is it legit?


No, you can't have both 5 and 7 in your tritype. You have to have one of (2,3,4), (5,6,7), and (8,9,1).


----------



## humeanirony

madhatter said:


> 135 The Technical Expert Archetype
> 
> The 135, 358, and 359 tritypes are naturally inclined to be tenacious and persistent.
> 
> The 361 is an incredibly discerning, focused and responsible type. She said they will be the most inclined to want to live up to a successful image by societal standards and to focus on duty in order to feel valuable. She called it the "true taskmaster" that is inclined to create structure and rules that others in society can follow and to implement them. She said the blindspot is that one can be so overly focused on the rules that they can loose touch with their own values and feelings in deference to what is acceptable or societally defined. This is the type at risk of becoming robotic (along with the 135). However the 351 is less relational than the 361.
> 
> 3-5-1 tritype: driven, self disciplined, success and image oriented (but the image is not one of flash. It's ALWAYS perfect and appropriate.)...discerning, self demanding and judgmental with a focus on control. Extremely productive and hardworking, she barely gives herself a break, but when she does it's like a huge release. It's always planned though...Highly intelligent and focused, but can be narrow-minded at times, even though she's capable of seeing other perspectives if she's convinced of the "rightness" of hers she will be harsh, critical and obstinate.
> 
> 135, 351, 531
> 
> If you are a 135, you are diligent, focused and knowledgeable. You want to be ethical, efficient and wise. Highly rational, you seek systems and procedures. Detail oriented, you like mathematical concepts and finding ways to breakdown and understand complex material. You are very precise and good with your hands.
> 
> Your life mission is to be focused and to use your powers of observation to achieve goals. A true technical expert, you feel happiest when you use your knowledge and precision skills to create, achieve and teach.
> 
> You can be so focused on what you perceive is accurate, effective and logical that you can appear to be cold and distant. Your attention to detail is so critical in your life that the key is to recognize that it governs your decisions.
> 
> 351...competent
> 
> all three Focused Responder Enneacards
> (Enneagram Types: 1, 3 & 5)
> You see yourself as controlled, disciplined, tenacious and pragmatic. You avoid error and sloppiness in your work and people who over-focus on their emotions. Naturally focused and perfectionistic, you like to set goals. You prefer to respond when you have had time to assess and evaluate.
> 
> 3-5-1 - The Objectivist
> 
> They conduct themselves in highly competent and rational manner. They usually know exactly how to reach their goals and work very diligently to reach those goals.
> 
> 5-1-3: Most scientific and remote Five. Most technical. Uncomfortable with intense feelings.
> 
> 1-3-5 : a rather ambitious, elitist and goal-oriented One, very hard-working and somewhat intellectually arrogant. They rarely show their feelings and therefore they usually seem cold and very self-assured. These Ones are generally well-read, well-mannered and quite intellectually refined: they like to impress others with their intelligence, wisdom and irreproachable work.
> usual subtypes: social, self-preserving, 1w9
> similar tritypes: 1-5-3, 3-1-5, 5-1-3
> flavours: competent, intellectual, ambitious and refined
> 
> 1-5-3 : usually introverted and elitist, prefer the scientific approach in nearly everything they do. These Ones appear colder and very self-certain but can be rather sensitive and fearful on the inside. Are afraid of failure and not meeting the expectations of others, mainly because they think they do not have enough resources for all their projects. They are hard-working, thorough and very meticulous and their work is usually impeccable. These Ones are particularly intellectual, knowledgeable and objective.
> usual subtypes: self-preserving, social 1w9
> similar tritypes: 1-3-5, 5-1-3, 3-1-5
> flavours: cerebral, scientific, meticulous and objective
> 
> 5-3-1: one of the most cold-blooded and self-controlled of the Fives, this tritype is remarkably efficient, hard-working and competent, although a little bit anal as well. They demand recognition for their contributions and are fairly concerned with their image and intellectual value. Somewhat self-righteous and impatient with others, they are however pragmatic and tactful enough not to compromise their goals by being too inflexible. These Fives are very clever, self-confident, perfectionist, arrogant and glacial.
> typical subtypes: social, self-preserving, 5w6
> similar tritypes: 5-1-3, 3-5-1
> flavours: cold, composed, efficient and self-important
> 
> 5-1-3: exacting, methodical, organized and fairly self-righteous, these Fives have a compulsive need for logic and order in their environment. They are hard-working and more practical and pragmatic than other Fives, focusing on the efficiency and improvement of the systems that interest them. They also enjoy and expect receiving the deserved recognition for their efforts, considering their time and involvement very precious. This tritype is one of the most cool-headed, rigid and self-controlled.
> typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w6
> similar tritypes: 5-3-1, 3-5-1, 1-5-3
> flavours: exigent, methodical, formal and efficient
> Employing mechanisms based on a feeling of competence. (1-3-5)
> 
> I would consider myself 531. This doesn't mean I read all the profiles and decided that I identify with each of these in this relative order, nor does it just mean that I seek knowledge, achievement, and rightness. Rather, I have found there to be my primary patterns of dealing with reality when I look across my lifespan. Also, when I get into ruts, it's usually governed by one of these three areas, with the type 5 being the primary problem. Most of my self-monitoring goes into watching the type 5 pattern play out on a day-to-day basis, but I also need to watch for type 3 problems with anything related to my self-image and type 1 problems with anything related to... well, "gut" stuff.
> 
> Basically, I see the 1-2-5 as tipping things, in the heart triad, towards the sort of self-sacrificial idealism of 1 -- but at the cost of competency preoccupation which 3 brings. A warmer, maybe less scientific person, who will more readily throw science out the window for the sake of helping others. Both Twos and Threes have a kind of workaholism, so I see that as persisting, but Threes work better alone, and I think the 1-3-5 is ultimately the more reclusive trifix combo, the scholar, the diligent student, the expert practitioner, whereas 1-2-5 is more like the field doctor, or medic, or veterinarian. Objective, but involved, and conscious of others. Maybe they do a lot of detailed work on their own, but they see themselves moreover as being in service of others. In some ways, 1-2-5 is a more "balanced" trifix/tritype. 1-3-5 gets overloaded with competency issues and comes out becoming too rigid, too logical for humanitarian work -- people seem too chaotic, 1-3-5's know their own abilities and studies best, so they stick with those. They aren't "by the book" but would rather write the book themselves. They suffer more from feeling that they lack the innate ability to help others, so they practice more, try to get ahead, prepare, theorize, get involved with projects that keep face-to-face interaction to a minimum, but want to get things just right. More perfectionist, more critical.
> 
> five with a one fix: focused, serious tone. critical outlook. theme of
> sacrifice, dissolves wholly into their projects.
> special interest in knowledge, skill, and discoveries
> to improve health, society, the future, and the like.
> concerned for others in the abstract; difficult to get
> close to.



Yes! My Tritype is 5w6, 1w2, 3w4. The 513 fits me perfectly! Thank you so much for you help!


----------



## December Flower

Are there any more alternative resources on this topic?


----------



## dweeb

madhatter said:


> From my observations, in the personality/enneagram internet community in general, everyone wants to be a 4 or a 8, probably because of some romanticizing delusions about what those types are really like, and no one really wants to be a primary type (3-6-9), because let's face it, they suck lol.


why would anyone want to be a 4 or an 8

whenever i take an enneagram test 4 always comes out on top with 6 and 8 not too far behind

why the heck would anyone CHOOSE to be an oversensitive tortured soul that is introspective and self-aware to a fault OR an aggressive challenger who serves as the personification of stubborn forcefulness


----------



## Can Wang

Could you tell me how to test it？


----------



## Dakris

I'm either 259 or 459. I relate to both of them. How do I tell the difference? I've scored 4w5 in one test, and 2w1 in a tritype test, so I'm not sure. In the tritype-test, I scored 2w1, 5w4 and 9w1. I know the differences between 2 and 4, but I can't decide.


----------



## hip priest1

Dakris said:


> I'm either 259 or 459. I relate to both of them. How do I tell the difference? I've scored 4w5 in one test, and 2w1 in a tritype test, so I'm not sure. In the tritype-test, I scored 2w1, 5w4 and 9w1. I know the differences between 2 and 4, but I can't decide.


Its easier to distinguish what your primary type is rather than what your tritype is. So look for the differences between 2 and 4. Are you reactive or positive, withdrawn or compliant etc. Theres a good misidentiifation resource on the enneagram institute website if youre a member.


----------



## Dakris

Thanks. Might sound weird, but can a 4 person be as helpful as a 2? I feel like I'm both the sensitive/self-pitying person that defines a 4, while at the same time I have the helping characteristics of 2.


----------



## Dakris

So, I've realised my image center type must be 4, because that's how I think of myself/see myself. I took a tritype test once more, and got 5w4, 9w1, 4w5. This makes sense to me, but I think it's difficult to seperate the individual subtypes. I'm possibly a 459 or 549.


----------



## The King Of Dreams

Dakris said:


> So, I've realised my image center type must be 4, because that's how I think of myself/see myself. I took a tritype test once more, and got 5w4, 9w1, 4w5. This makes sense to me, but I think it's difficult to seperate the individual subtypes. I'm possibly a 459 or 549.


How do you find out your image center?


----------



## Dakris

The King Of Dreams said:


> How do you find out your image center?


I'm not that experienced with the enneagram, so correct me if I'm wrong, but a tritype consists of one enneagram type from the image (heart) center (2,3,4), one from the thinking (head) center (5,6,7), and one from the instinctive (body) center (8,9,1). Your type from the image center is chosen by evaluating your self-image.


----------



## The King Of Dreams

Dakris said:


> I'm not that experienced with the enneagram, so correct me if I'm wrong, but a tritype consists of one enneagram type from the image (heart) center (2,3,4), one from the thinking (head) center (5,6,7), and one from the instinctive (body) center (8,9,1). Your type from the image center is chosen by evaluating your self-image.


Ah, I recognized it by a different name. My image center is 2w1.


----------



## hz light

well,i finally made it,i finally know for sure(100% sure)my tritype(4w3,6w7 and 9w8),if you guys want an accurate result then be honest,answer it all and dont be drunk lol,it s tough to be sensitive and doubtful but on the other hand my wings help me with the sensitivity thing and a little bit with my doubts,i m out.


----------



## iMaven

So who's ready for a 4-1-7 description???


----------



## angelcarnivore

I didn't see 237 in the first few pages, is it in this thread?


----------



## posey

I need to figure out if I am the seeker 946 or the contemplative 945.


----------



## Maker of helmets

I self-identify myself as being Tritype 146, subtype SX-SO

If anyone finds this and wants to share experiences with me of Tritype and subtype, find me on PerC 

I feel like I need a community for self-development with specialised knowledge of the same kinds of experiences, 
or maybe-probably I feel like I just want to bond with someone over this new discovery I've made 

Anyways, if you find this post, what is your experience of being Tritype 146?


----------



## Zoel.fahmi

interesting note


----------



## RockLobster75

Yeah, I took the test and got 5w4, 1w2, and 4w5 (Iconoclast, Advocate, and Bohemian were the names I saw for those) but in this guide I more identified with the 1-4-5 description... eh, whatever. They are pretty similar anyway.


----------



## Despotic Nepotist

angelcarnivore said:


> I didn't see 237 in the first few pages, is it in this thread?


That is not a real tritype.


----------



## Tetsuo Shima

I'm either 458 or 485. Probably 458.


----------



## Emeraude

i am 2_9 or maybe 29_....but first i will be deciding between 295 258 and 259... still have to read more... :x


----------



## Demoiselle Dys

madhatter said:


> 458 – The Scholar Archetype
> 
> The 845 is the somewhat introverted, intelligent, headstrong, detached, hyper introspective problem solver with strategic thinking and emotional astuteness.
> 
> *Darkest tritype-458, 854, 584 (particularly when 4 or 5 are in charge)
> 
> Also if you are still considering 548 (or 845): she said this is the the most intense type, particularly if sexual. Intuitive, knowledgeable and direct. This is the type that really craves knowing what makes people tick and builds what she calls mental or internal maps that are quite astute as to what makes people do what they do. This tends to be the darkest of the tritypes because of the intensity of the 3 types (particularly if 4 or 5 is in charge). David said there is a propensity toward the grotesque, anatomical or intensely esoteric. This is the "true scholar" and the life mission is to disseminate what information is found. The blind spot is this has 3 types that can be prone to arrogance and the attachment to the internal map of what they've found can make them blind to new information as it comes in. So there will be a tendency to become fixed in their worldview or ideas particularly about people and not take in new information. So while the map is quite extraordinary that they've painted they may miss a whole region and thus not have the full picture. This is also the most cynical and the tendency to be so overly opinionated can make people turn off to their wisdom. She said when 8 is in charge there is a bit more compassion, and with an integrated 5 or 4 in charge you get a gifted spiritual teacher (Russ Hudson for example)
> An intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and to find the hidden meaning in all things.
> 
> 874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.
> 
> ‎854 and 862 share the self-possessed confidence with solution mastery. The 854 is the artsy and intellectual 8 -- with a secret self-consciousness. The 862 is the champion rescuer, protector with a great need to help-- more duty.
> 
> the 468 is a true challenger and truth teller. The 4 may be shy but this Tritype is very intense and reactive--quick to speak their mind. The 485 is the true intellectual that has strong opinions about their feelings and thoughts but less reactivity. Sexual instinct with 4 dominant makes both tritypes more intense. The 468, however, is more dutiful and feisty whereas the 458 is one of the tritypes that lives in their head researching and following their own muse.
> 
> ‎846 vs 845. These two tritypes are very different. Both take charge and seek solutions. The 846 is one of the most confrontational tritypes. The other is the 836. The 6 amplifies the 8 need for loyalty and trust. The 845 is more introverted and introspective. The 854 has 5 as a line of connection as well as in the tritype and makes this 8 more scholarly and focused on depth.
> 
> (4)-5-8 - The Power-Seeking 4
> 4-(5)-8 - The Reactive 5
> 4-5-(8) - The Withdrawn 8
> 
> Impenetrable inner world. They are complex individuals, but they are more characterized by the way they tend to push everyone away from them.
> 
> 5-8-4: Most Intense Five. Needs creativity. Can be moody and melancholy.
> 
> 458 is the most tough-minded and opinionated 4.
> 
> 458 - Knowledgeable and direct 4. Most analytical 4. Craves knowing what makes people tick. Stronger Opinions.
> 
> 845: Intuitive and knowledgeable 8. Most withdrawn 8, specially if introverted, 9 wing and/or sp.
> 
> The 458 is an active archetype...just more withdrawn...not passive like the librarian... more the expert as they gather knowledge but have a very definite point of view like the 478 and 468.
> 
> five with an eight fix: least intellectual, though perhaps the most mentally intense. unsettled by occasional fits of temper, sudden outbursts. affixed to notions of power; attitude of resigned realist. quietly guarded and insistent, may put others ill at ease.
> 
> eight with a four fix: the moody, loner eight. distinct outsider quality; as if on a highly
> personal mission. tendency to feel exempt from conventional rules
> and circumstances.
> 
> The 458 is more openly emotional and expressive. The 548 is more mental and reserved...like the difference between 4 and 5. Both are intuitive thinkers and tend to be introverted. They are intellectuals that take action when they feel strongly about something. Others are always surprised when the 8 appears as this tritype appears quiet.
> 
> A couple of distinctions...The 458 is more emotionally expressive than the 548. The content can be very different. The 458 is more inclined to talk about their feelings about a subject of interest whereas the 548 will be more reserved and speak about tinteresting facts about a subject. The energy of the 458 is focused on the analysis of their feelings first whereas the 548 is focused on the analysis of the information first.
> 
> Social increases the need to have the critical information needed to be interesting to others-- to be wise and in the know. Sp increases the focus on the the basics... the resources one must expend to have the information.What will the cost be? All 6 variations of the 458 will avoid being ignorant and speak up for what they believe in. For example, in contrast, the sp548 will be far more reluctant to speak than the sx845 but both fear being inadequate, incompetent and powerless.
> 
> The 4-5-8 is the most direct and blunt of all the tritypes, with the exception of perhaps 3-5-8
> 
> 874 and 854 are very similar and can be difficult to distinguish as 8 has access to both 7 and 5. What is helpful is to look at the differences between 7 and 5. The most critical aspect engagement. The 7 engages and brings a positive outlook to the 84_. The 5 is more internal and brings more introversion and reserve. The 874 is more outgoing and spontaneous. it is the difference between facts vs activities.
> 
> seeing your place as in the shadows is exactly how the 458 describes themselves. The 458, 468 and 478 are all truth tellers in their own way. The 468 is the one that is hyper reactive and still seeks a fair authority. The 458 and 478 are their own authorities.
> 
> the 548 tritype is the 5 most likely to appear 4-ish.
> 
> I think that 458 tritype could be mis-typed as 5, but this is much less likely than a 548 being mis-typed as a 4. It is double reactivity and resultant emotional intensity/volatility of having 4 and 8 together that clashes with the 5, even when 5 is core.
> 
> out of 458/459/451 I'd guess that both 459 and 451 would seem more 5-like (or, more accurately, be more likely to be mis-typed as 5) than 458.
> 
> The 485 is an intensely original archetype with a passion to explore and find the hidden meaning in all things.
> 
> The 845 is more introverted intuition with the attention going inward. It can be darker and is more cynical.
> 
> (EIDB 548 tritype discussion thread: The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - 5 4 8 Tritype ):
> 
> [Intense, especially with sx first. Independent, dark, cynical. Most eccentric, creative 5 that tends to swing between detachment and emotionality. Most 4ish 5, especially with four wing. Tough-minded, analytical 4 that is staunchly individualistic. Withdrawn, sensitive, creative 8. "Scholar" archetype if I remember correctly. Wants to know what makes people tick.
> 
> Actually, I think this 5 would be more fantasy oriented than information oriented. This would be the dreamy 5.
> 
> What I was criticising was the implication that the unique view a 5-4-8 creates is a monolithic system which doesn't change or adjust due to presumably stasis or narcissism or an inability to take criticism. Dynamism, flux and big intellectual shifts are much more likely.
> While a 5-4-8 is likely to be an intellectual narcissist, I think any criticism that they are unable to change or adjust their view is the opposite of the case because there is an intense self-criticism as well. Change and flux are constant.
> 
> first, because 5-4-8's are unlikely to think in systems (which you've now agreed with), and second, because of their sensitivity to inconsistency, constant self-criticism and tendency to change positions.
> I think there is an element of truth in the description though, in that 5-4-8's can be wilfully perverse and too arrogant to accept criticism from others. But they are likely to outwardly repudiate that criticism, and then later modify their views accordingly rather than stubbornly retain their original position.
> 
> My experience of this type is of course my only experience of any kind, so hard to be 'objective'. But here goes. I find it a complex, contradictory and often perplexing type to be. The 3 numbers pull against each other, and there is no social element(3, 6, or 9) to smooth the way. This is exacerbated if you have SO as your last stacking. Although all generalisations are suspect (including this one), it is particularly hard to generalise about this tritype. This tritype seems peculiarly subject to flux, and thus can vary greatly, or have many different real selves.
> However, dark, eccentric, creative, cynical, sensitive, scholarly are not wide of the mark (although tend to create a caricature if taken too seriously). It's true that we tend to be intensely interested in the psychology of other people, if only because we are at an utter loss to figure out ourselves much of the time. In a way, we are natural scholars but too scholarly, polymathic and restless for universities these days, which reward the careerist specialist.
> 5-4-8's are subject to rapid oscillations of emotion and thought, equally capable of preternatural strength and weakness of mind at any given moment. One minute an angel, the next a cruel tyrant. A lot of love and a lot of hate. Exquisitely sensitive but all too capable of cruelty and callousness to others. One wants to know, in a totalizing and essential fashion, know poetically but know precisely as well, but never quite gets there.
> 
> We are paradox-mongers, live in metaphor, and are always trying to find new ways to say and see things (and hence are often pretentious) - i.e. iconoclasts - but can be as pedantic, systematic and anally analytical as anyone - i.e. using our 5-ness to beat others at their own games when they have underestimated us as loose, kooky or not with it.
> 5-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.
> 
> I would caution against such a romanticized view of this tritype as it may defeat the value of knowing one’s type. I would disagree with a lot of the first things you said about this combination – “many real selves” and “subject to flux”. I find a kind of coherency in that here you’ve got two reactive types (4,8) two rejection (5,8) two withdrawn (4,5) and three very independent, very resistant to anything that originates outside itself, and not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. The greatest fluctuation I feel is between feeling incredibly hard and strong to being very self-conscious and inept. Strong and Vulnerable are my two modes, brought out when I feel I am unable to make that leap across the fragments of words and space between myself and someone I have an interest in.
> 
> I believe Nietzsche and Gurdjieff were of this tritype, though G may have had 7 instead of 5, but Katherine Fauvre very much agreed with me when I said there was something “Hermetic” about this tri-type. There is a kind of de-construction of present systems and a reconstruction into something that subverts previously-held notions. I like to think of myself as an “ontological terrorist”. Nietzsche is a beautiful illustration of what I see as the gift of this tritype – of staring past the fragility in the conceptions humans, as living and rational beings, hope to cling to and look into something “under”, to poke around in [blocked due to guideline #4 violation], and reveal the beauty within it. Hades operates under a kind of 854 archetypal pattern. There’s the destructive power and energy to produce an impact of 8, along with the “ground-up” construction and innovation of 5 with the creativity and will to rebirth of 4. Of course, that’s only there in the best examples of this tritype, a call the rest of us can only hope to live up to.
> 
> There are of course coherent factors - otherwise there wouldn't be a category. However, I still feel that the concept of change over time is very important to 548. I guess this is what I mean by different selves - the many different selves over one's life (which is also true of everyone). That is, think of Heraclitus's saw - you cannot step into the same river twice. Not just because the river has changed, but because you are - that minute to minute one's self is mutating, adapting, contradicting itself. This does not necessarily have to defeat the concept of a core coherent self, but certainly challenges it.
> 
> I disagree with your point that 548s are not particularly concerned with objectivity, consistency, or interested in being accessible in any way. While these three values are pretty hard to attain, and difficult to define, they are pretty important to me, at least some of the time - and especially in any discrete intellectual task I want to complete.
> 
> I think our tritype is especially gifted with calling it’s fundamental beliefs into constant question. You’ve got 4’s emphasis on self-creation and thus change, the 5’s emphasis on clear perception, innovation, curiosity, and the 8 that confronts and challenges. There is always a readiness to undermine ourselves with an aim at change, but shows us what crap each construct we hold at every stage of growth really is and there is always the correct suspicion that whatever construct we hold in the present is simply a construction.]
> 
> 5-4-8: more reactive and temperamental, such Fives find it harder to control their emotions than other tritypes. They are basically sensitive, reclusive and ingenious, occasionally indulging in (romantic) day-dreams and fantasies, but once in a while their fierce, visceral side reveals itself explosively and gets to surprise people who don’t know them well. These Fives are usually selfish and whimsical, considering themselves entitled to special treatment which they will sometimes claim aggressively. They are prone to mood swings and rage outbursts.
> typical subtypes: sexual, self-preserving, 5w4
> similar tritypes: 5-8-4, 4-5-8
> flavours: innovative, temperamental, egocentric and intense
> 
> 5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary.
> typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
> similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4
> flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive


Thanks for that Insight @madhatter
I realized Im a 548.


----------



## Lunatics

Defining my exact enneagram type was quite difficult for me and subsequently so was my archetype. 

After re-taking one of the tests it kept on defining my as Type 1 but had always different types following afterwards. One of them appeared to be consistent though in the first 4-5 types following my main result of Type 1 and that was Type 6.

I decided to take another test to define both my socionics and enneagram type and it kept on defining me as Type 4 sx/sp. 

Finally, I also read through the different combinations and managed to identify myself as 1-4-6 or The Philosopher type. It sounded a lot like me and the little paradox that I am...


----------



## David4

*How To Learn More About Tritype from it's creators at Enneagram.net*



madhatter said:


> Okay, people, it's the day you've all been waiting for. Or it would have been the day you've been waiting for if you had known to wait for it. This is a thread for descriptions for each of the 27 archetypes/tritypes. It's a slap-dash compilation of tritype information collected from the Fauvres, Enneagram Institute Discussion Board, and many other miscellaneous sites. It may not be pretty, but it's all in one place for your convenience. Enjoy.
> 
> [Edit:] Oh, there's going to be some overlap between the types. If one post pertained to two tritypes, I posted it in both tritypes. Also, some tritypes' descriptions are longer than others. Some are shorter, simply because that's all I could find on them. Some of you will have better fortune than others in this regard.


The term, concept and research behind Tritype and the descriptions of each Tritype are from the work of Enneagram Explorations and Enneagram.net founders, Katherine Chernick Fauvre and David W. Fauvre. Those interested in Tritype can find the Fauvre's Tritype book, videos, Tritype Enneagram Test and trainings at Enneagram.net. Their free YouTube.com Enneagram TV show, 'Types: Your Personality Revealed' has a show that introduces the key concepts about Tritype.


----------



## varuna

hello ( firs post e he ) 
As far as I am concerned, after reading some Gurjieff books and one biography but :
-------------
-4-8's have a predisposition to religion and philosophy, especially pessimistic and melancholic strains, but a commensurate disappointment with the lack of answers that satisfy us and a concomitant melancholy.
------ 
this is not my point , as for G had a very strong 8 first and , for example à 4 would have been CG Jung ? 
Maybe i am wrong , because my knowledge is poor in these matters , except for the readings and teaching for 40 years ,in a dojo too as a_ senpai _


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## giraffegator

for a bit I thought I was a 9-7-4 but now I think I might be a 6-9-4. I strongly value courage, which sometimes makes me get an 8 in enneagram tests (because to me, the word strength (meaning inner strength or courage) is appealing so I pick it up).

I definitely agree with wanting to find understanding and meaning and share it with others. I also agree with the 'grief can be overwhelming'. That is what I struggle with in grieving. I feel like I'm drowning in it, so I don't let myself feel it.


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## Colorful

Hi. I noticed while reading about 147 that you missed giving that small variant of the type description for 714, 741 and 417. Could you describe them a bit? Also how would you differentiate between 714 and 741? Thank in advance.

edit: oh... Do you know how common it is for a 147 to also be an ENTP? They are both called "The Visionaries". I'm an ENTP and I was wondering if there's a connection.


----------



## Cireth

I'm a 514 INFP. Is that weird?


----------



## something987

I just found out I'm a 648 and this explains why I've always had such a hard time making friends. Add on top of that no social instinct and basically it sucks being an ESFP of this kind. But at least I know I'm always right.


----------



## crb

Forgive me if this was already asked, I don't have the energy to read this entire thread at the moment. What is a tri-type?? And how do you know which one you are?


----------



## Bathilda

I seem to be the only one who responded to the description of the 479 "Gentle Healer" with "hells yeah buddy, I'm gentle as f*ck!" 

But I'm a little too into self-denial to have 7 in there, I think. Can't blame it all on the 1-wing. Sigh.


----------



## counterintuitive

I am so severely head triad that I have a hard time relating to either of the other two triads. If I could pick any tritype it would be 756 lol. I'm a 7 for sure, most likely 7w6 but might have balanced wings. I could go with 738 or 739 but really I don't relate that much to 3, 8, or 9, or any of the other types other than 7, 5, and 6. I am probably head > heart > gut if that makes sense. I don't know this stuff that well.


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## euro4

iMaven said:


> So who's ready for a 4-1-7 description???


4-1-7 seems a curious and interesting combination ... at least the 7 is there to bring some fun to the combination of 4 and 1 ... does your 7 side ever survive to the tormented 4 and the repressive 1?


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## Istrid

How on earth does one choose between 854/845 and 874/847 ???


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## tanstaafl28

Istrid said:


> How on earth does one choose between 854/845 and 874/847 ???


874/847 is going to be more open, optimistic, and aggressive than 854/845. The latter tends to be a bit darker.


----------



## Istrid

tanstaafl28 said:


> 874/847 is going to be more open, optimistic, and aggressive than 854/845. The latter tends to be a bit darker.


Thanks! To what degree? I could use any of those words to describe myself.


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## tanstaafl28

Istrid said:


> Thanks! To what degree? I could use any of those words to describe myself.


Degrees? The two are night and day different. 

If you are an 854/845 you are going to be dark, less optimistic, less open, less aggressive. The combination of 5 and 4 are far more withdrawn-oriented and are going to pull the 8 back a bit. There's an almost morbid fascination with darker topics involved. This person is more calculated, carefully choosing what conflicts he/she will fight and which he/she will let go. More likely to be a trusted adviser rather than the one in charge. 

An 874/847 is going to be far more friendly, open, and aggressive. The 8 and 7 are outward oriented, and are going to drag the 4 out into the light more often than not. This person is difficult to conquer, full of drive, energy, and enthusiasm. Much more likely to stand up to conflict all the time. Far more adventurous, excitement-driven, and "take-charge."


----------



## Istrid

@tanstaafl28 Ah, definitely 874, then. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## tanstaafl28

Istrid said:


> @_tanstaafl28_ Ah, definitely 874, then. Thanks for the clarification.


You're certainly too cheerful to be 854.


----------



## Apple Pine

lol. 371. I can definitely relate to the description.


----------



## euro4

Istrid said:


> How on earth does one choose between 854/845 and 874/847 ???


if you want to see a prototypical 845, you can watch Ray Donovan, from the eponymous tv series. IMHO he represents the true dark 845. Your avatar does not have this "dark" 845 aura ... if that is some help.
@tanstaafl28 you are a 584 ... wow ... does that combination really exist? How is it labeled?
a thinker that is also a leader with some dark and romantic gloom?


----------



## tanstaafl28

euro4 said:


> if you want to see a prototypical 845, you can watch Ray Donovan, from the eponymous tv series. IMHO he represents the true dark 845. Your avatar does not have this "dark" 845 aura ... if that is some help.
> @_tanstaafl28_ you are a 584 ... wow ... does that combination really exist? How is it labeled?
> a thinker that is also a leader with some dark and romantic gloom?


Ray Donovan, Makes perfect sense. 

Very much so. Scholar Archetype.




> 5-8-4: original, rebellious, temperamental and highly individualistic and independent, these Fives are can be extremely self-focused and mostly unconcerned with other people’s feelings and wants. They are often inspired and have great vision which they strive to turn into reality – they have a practical side which helps them. Although brilliant and resourceful, others may find it hard to deal with their self-important, narcissistic behavior and their oversensitivity to frustration – their violent reactions can be scary.
> typical subtypes: sexual, 5w4, 5w6 (counterphobic wing)
> similar tritypes: 5-4-8, 8-5-4
> flavours: resourceful, defiant, visionary and reactive


----------



## B0r3d

I think i'm 748 or 738


----------



## Lakigigar

458 or 468 but most likely 458 (90 procent sure of it).

Funny to see that Hades is in my archetype :laughing:


----------



## Juiz

There was mention of it not being possible as you need pick one from head, heart and body. . . but what if your tritype is 5w4 7w6 9w8??? I dont think i can classify as a 4w5 if I have to pick out from there.


----------



## counterintuitive

I understand the rationale of course as to why you can pick only one from each triad (conflicting ways of dealing with each emotion), but damn, I wish I could be 75x. Lol. Probably 751 or 758. The core motivations of 5 don't fit me, that's how I know I'm not actually a 5, but some of the other drives and stuff like pursuit/striving for knowledge are a close fit. I'd put 5 in my tritype if I could as a core 7. I mean, if ExFPs can be 74x, we ExTPs should be able to be 75x. ;D


----------



## Juiz

So apparently I don't have 7w6 in my tritype, but I am actually 5w4 9w8 4w3. The confusion before about if I could be 7w6 was that healthy 4w3 types can come off as 7 types sometimes. I don't have a fear/value of security and self preservation, so I don't know why I chose a 6wing in the first place. Lol


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## Doctor Mindela

I'm appearance oriented with a purpose I hope is not hidden to those for whom it would be needed to be seen. I'm going to ramble now and you can deconstruct and analyze to your heart's desire. I would say Messenger with 4w3 some variation of 7w6 and my conflict orientation is like if I argue with you, I want to make you see your errors in the way you need to see them. I have backed my position up with strong Te, I'm an ENFP-A. Check my profile for a more detailed description, but I'll still talk about myself hahaha. I'm able to employ my 7 and 8 when my mission needs a warrior, but ill do it my way. If adaptation is needed it must be inline with my Fi and me Ne and Te will help me to see my opportunities and options. If I disagree with something that has a useful traditional application and we can continue to solve our problems then I will begrudgingly allow it to go down, with my mind mining the situations that I let go by and developing a broader understanding of how to understand humanity. I have a strong need to try things out if that is how I feel things need to be. I like sampling things if and only if I believe I can come up with something novel, fresh, popping and mine.

Sent from my M2 using Tapatalk


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## Curious777

5w6/1w9/3w4 right here! maybe im an introvert with a lot of competence


----------



## Blazy

madhatter said:


> 378 – The Mover & Shaker Archetype
> 
> The 837 is the slick, expansive, powerhouse, 'can do' person that sees the big picture but avoids feelings, seeing them as speed bumps that get in the way of manifesting and making things happen.
> 
> *Most assertive tritype-378, 873, 783
> 
> 378,837,738 If you are the 378, you are ambitious, innovative and protective. You want to be efficient, happy and straight-forward. You are a dynamic go-getter, focused on the prize. An expansive powerhouse, you see the big picture and a positive future with the will to make it happen. Seeking success, obstacles are seen as competitive challenges. Your life mission is to see what is possible and find innovative ways to achieve your goals. A true mover and shaker, you are happiest when you are in a position of power to manifest your vision and make things happen. You need to be doing to feel alive.	You can be so expeditious, assertive and results oriented that you miss your impact on others and the deeper meaning and significance of why you are doing what you are doing.
> 
> 387...assertives
> 
> You have all three Expansive Solution Enneacards (3, 7 & 8)
> Naturally forward and expansive, you see yourself as assertive, self-motivated, expeditious and results oriented. Focused on action, you resist being controlled and letting your feelings get in the way of achieving your goals. When opposed, you react immediately and when necessary are not afraid to move against others to manage problems.
> 
> the sexual 378 is triple assertive and has the added jolt of the high intensity sexual energy. 378 is self assured, innovative and bold, there will be more of a focus on being strong and attractive compared to other instincts. The 379 is a bit softer and more adept at softening their presentation. We always refer to the 379 is the "cool guy" or "cool girl" tritype as they want to be trendy and cool but also blend. The 378 may be more outlandish so pays less attention to being cool and more attention to being the trailblazer.
> Well if you lead with the 7 instead of 3 you will be less concerned with image and be less likely to track what others want you to be as the 7 is more concerned with following their own muse. However with the sexual subtype in charge both the 378 and the 738 will want to be alluring to potential intimates and mates and have a desire to find a mate who can handle their triple assertive energy.
> 
> a 379 would be a more reflective and considerate but also more indecisive and chameleon-like (and somewhat more withdrawn, at times) version of a 378.
> 
> And 379/793 would differ from the 378 in that 379 would be more diplomatic and conflict-avoidant than the 378.
> 
> 3-7-8 - The Extrovert
> 
> This type is very outward focused. They must keep themselves involved with the external world in order to be relieve of stress and tension. Being alone and inactive causes anxiety.
> 
> eight with a three fix: the notably success oriented, prominence seeking eight. utilizes
> image and manipulation to advance their career or enterprise.
> business achievement can lead to political aspirations.
> 
> 783: Direct and focused 7. Most assertive 7. Are usually movers and shakers and rainbow makers. Professional 7.
> 
> 837: Focused and innovative. Most assertive 8. Mover and shaker, especially if extroverted and/or soc. subtype. Entrepreneurs.
> 
> 87?: Focused, intuitive, and innovative. Most assertive and noncomforming 8. Moody, intense, eccentric, entrepreneurial 8 especially if sx.
> 
> Both Tritypes are Movers and Shakers. They both want to win and have power but in a different way. The 387 is focused on achieving success, especially success in the eyes of others. The attention goes to identifying the role needed to make the achievements that are viewed as successful. With success comes power. The 837 is more focused on overcoming obstacles and succeeding in spite of the obstacles...they never give up. The 837 is less focused on the role and more focused on the position of power. With power comes success. The 837 wants to be seen as successful but wants autonomy more and are not dependent on other's view of them.
> With the 738 the focus moves to the heat and the creative, vision, future ideal, what is possible and entertaining ways to succeed in a big way. They imagine, produce and manifest.


I can make rainbows? cool.


----------



## katherine8

FYI Enneagram Global Summit is here again


[URL="https://shiftnetwork.isrefer.com/go/egs16KF/DFauvre"]




Free Online Gathering 
Enneagram Global Summit 
June 7-10, 2016

Katherine Chernick Fauvre

I’m honored to be featured among 25 of the world’s top experts — including people like Cheryl Richardson, Helen Palmer, Russ Hudson, Katie Hendricks, David Daniels, Robert Holden, Hameed Ali, Jessica Dibb and others — sharing the latest insights and applications to integrate into your own personal growth journey and to take your Enneagram knowledge deeper.

I will be speaking about Tritype and how knowing your Tritype can help you to understand yourself and others better. I include a case example of a 458 working with other 4, parenting an 863 and married to a 259. It is a great way to see the dynamics they combination creates ... 

I hope you are able to participate in this special online gathering presented by The Shift Network.

RSVP here for The Enneagram Global Summit — at no charge!

https://shiftnetwork.isrefer.com/go/egs16KF/DFauvre[/URL]

During this unparalleled 4-day event, you’ll discover:

How to open to the deepest truths of your soul
Ways to connect to your true nature
Practices for experiencing inner freedom
The fears & desires that motivate you — and others
How to dismantle your harmful & self-sabotaging patterns
Deeper relationships with your family, friends, co-workers & community
Essential skills to effectively help others help themselves
How to tap into new inspiration & cultivate your creativity
A profound sense of belonging & interconnectedness
Greater self-acceptance, self-love & compassion for others
Your unique gifts, so that you can share them with the world
How to live with less rigidity and more grace, ease & flow
And much More!

If you’re new to this powerful system, the 2016 Enneagram Global Summit will guide you to the best tests and practices for determining your individual type — including ways to differentiate between look-alike types. You’ll start working with the core patterns of your type and begin to connect with the parts of yourself that respond to life spontaneously and creatively.

If you’re already well-versed in the Enneagram, there are many insights here for you, too, and opportunities to take your work with the Enneagram deeper.

If you want a greater connection with your unique gifts, as well as with more self-acceptance, self-love and compassion for others, join me and the amazing panel of other presenters for this life-changing event.

RSVP here for The Enneagram Global Summit — at no charge!


----------



## 0+n*1

I think I am a 369 but I don't relate strongly to my archetype except the point about being unsure of my identity. In fact, I have made a whole spectacle around the idea that I lack a defined identity, I'm defined by indefiniteness. I feel blank, I kinda embrace it. Another thing that is said in the description is that they adapt and imitate others because they fear not relating. In my case, it's not that I fear not relating but that is difficult to relate when your mechanism is to always look for some middle point. There are some themes of being in the middle, of things around you, everything equidistantly close or equidistantly afar.

But I think this is just an attempt at mystifying my identity, of creating a mythology around it, a god to adore and put shrines to, to adorn what is essentially just human. I'm averse to that. I dislike being pretentious.


----------



## something987

I'm a 478 and the description sounds way too complimentary. I really don't think I'm all that great. Mostly pretty normal.


----------



## katherine8

Just a reminder for those interested, I am presenting on Enneagram Tritype tomorrow, Friday at 11:00am Pacific Daylight Savings Time. 

You can register and listen at no charge. Click here for more information:

https://shiftnetwork.isrefer.com/go/egs16KF/DFauvre/ The link will also make is possible to hear presentations from other Enneagram Teachers.


----------



## something987

katherine8 said:


> Just a reminder for those interested, I am presenting on Enneagram Tritype tomorrow, Friday at 11:00am Pacific Daylight Savings Time.
> 
> You can register and listen at no charge. Click here for more information:
> 
> https://shiftnetwork.isrefer.com/go/egs16KF/DFauvre/ The link will also make is possible to hear presentations from other Enneagram Teachers.


Shoot I was on vacation and missed it


----------



## Nicky411

I need more information on the tritype 531


----------



## Stellafera

Nicky411 said:


> I need more information on the tritype 531


Triple competency would be the biggest thing I'd notice about the vibe of the tritype. With 5 in the front, probably would manifest as a sort of "I've got to be good enough to deal with my issues" ethos where "good enough" is always off in the horizon.


----------



## Super Luigi

madhatter said:


> 136 – The Taskmaster Archetype
> 
> 136/361/613
> 
> The 136/361/613 is an incredibly discerning, focused and responsible type. She said they will be the most inclined to want to live up to a successful image by societal standards and to focus on duty in order to feel valuable. She called it the "true taskmaster" that is inclined to create structure and rules that others in society can follow and to implement them. She said the blindspot is that one can be so overly focused on the rules that they can lose touch with their own values and feelings in deference to what is acceptable or societally defined. This is the type at risk of becoming robotic (along with the 135/351/513). However the 135/351/513 is less relational than the 136/361/613.
> 
> I was asked the differences between the 361, the 368 and the 369 tritypes. Since the question is which gut type is dominant. At a glance, it is most helpful to look at activity levels. The 361 is very industrious and busy doing to avoid anxiety, the 1 brings a need to do what is morally correct. The 368 is focused on fighting for justice, the 8 brings a need to overcome and prevail. The 369 is highly adaptable and focused on being in comfortable alignment with others.
> 
> I am not 100% sure at this time but for now I am thinking 613 with 6 being very much in charge.
> I am a goal-oriented person who doesn't like being controlled by others..I am a friendly person. Sometimes, I come across as too mild/passive..I see it when people think they can control me. They are often surprised when they see I don't let myself get pushed so easily. Being a phobic Six makes it hard for me to truly stand up to someone though often and I end up relying on an "avoidance strategy".
> I focus mostly on competence/technical knowledge to get ahead in life so I don't go out of my way to manipulate/mobilize others.
> 
> 136 tritype; elegant, stoic and resolute with a loyal professional veneer.
> 
> (3)-6-1 - The Compliant 3
> 3-(6)-1 - The Competent 6
> 3-6-(1) - The Normative 1
> 
> Very self critical. Strong ideas about how they should act and have man guidelines that they must follow and cannot deter from.
> 
> 1-3-6 : this One is usually very hard-working and well-organized. Dutiful and diligent, they also keep an eye on their own interests and like to receive prizes and praise and boost their reputation among their peers. They prefer a leading role and can be excellent managers and leaders: they can get things done as they’re efficient, more pragmatic and also more cautious and calculated. They can sometimes suffer from a bit of paranoia, and worry about their status, finances or health.
> usual subtypes: social, 1w9
> similar tritypes: 3-1-6, 1-6-3
> flavours: hard-working, pragmatic, efficient and cautious
> 
> 1-6-3 : conscientious, responsible, cautious and efficient, these Ones are very practical and productive. They’re down-to-earth, realistic and typically good managers of people and resources. They’re also quite good at predicting and avoiding possible pit-falls and are talented trouble-shooters: they’re preventive and like to play it safe. Want their hard-work and thoroughness praised and (financially) rewarded, and sometimes they might act arrogantly and engage in self-praising when they feel unappreciated.
> usual subtypes: social, self-preserving, 1w2
> similar tritypes: 1-3-6, 6-1-3
> flavours: efficient, practical, cautious and hard-working
> 
> 136 Compliance meets Harmony and meets Competence.
> 
> The 136 is focused on the rules.... it is an important point but they really, really task and are always busy.
> 
> 631--A 6 with a strong superego. Lots of issues regarding personal competency. At lower health, the most likely of the 6s to respond negatively and reactively to pressure from others, since there is already a nearly unbearable pressure from within.
> --The first impression I get from this tritype is a strong image orientation. There's a constant need to impress others and to have a positive place in the social sphere. I see a need for perfection in all things, partly out of ego and partly out of duty. There's strong loyalty to causes, but more so community ones and not personal ones. But this is a very hands-on tritype who will work to achieve what (s)he wants to achieve. I see less manipulation here than the 3 might otherwise indicate, and more focus and drive.
> --That doesn't ring true for me ( I have this tritype ). Duty to those worthy of it, yes, but I don't find "societal standards" to be high standards at all, or worth emulating in the slightest. I find that most of "society" sorely disappoints, the lowest common denominator rules. I also have a deep distrust for the public in general.
> 
> So, the 136, 137 and 126 would most focus on preparing, being busy and responsible. The 1 and 6 feel they must be responsible, the 3s must do, achieve, and perform, the 4s must accomplish, the 8s must executing and so on.
> 
> I have found the 136 needs to be busy to avoid feelings of anxiety …136s can enjoy needle point, baking, cleaning, organizing and/or reading to keep the anxiety at bay.
> 
> [by timeless:] 6-1-3. That means they have the core desires of a 6, they interact with the world like a 1 and they like to be seen like a 3 would like to be seen. Breaking that down:
> Type 6 is security-oriented, and can alternate between serious doubt and serious loyalty. They tend to be pretty rule-focused right off the bat (as they are a superego type) but then add 1 onto the mix and, like that tri-type description gives you, they can get fixated on constructing appropriate rules. Type 1 is usually critical of themselves and others, which is the component that enables a Type 6 to channel their desire for a workable rule set into the desire to create a workable rule set. Type 3, the image type in this triad, likes to be seen as successful and effective. You can see how adding 6, 1 and 3 together would create a personality type that's dedicated toward seeking out the best rule set.
> 
> 613 The Taskmaster. Discerning and focused 6. This is the most industrious 6. Eager beavers and highly responsible, they are always busy and can be mistaken for 3s. Fear is managed by achieving. They tend to feel the burden of obligation. They focus on duty and family.
> 
> The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, being wrong, bad, evil, angry, inappropriate, corruptible, condemned, failure, being incapable, or unable to do, inefficient, immutable, and inconsequential.


That is mostly accurate, with one exception.
I'm actually rather lazy. Perhaps that's because I lead with 6.


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## Hero of Freedom

Any tips for finding my "third" enneagram that pairs? Mine likely goes 6w5 > 4w5 but what is the third > ???

Can it be a 5(645)?


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## Jerdle

Sword of Justice said:


> Any tips for finding my "third" enneagram that pairs? Mine likely goes 6w5 > 4w5 but what is the third > ???
> 
> Can it be a 5(645)?


No, it can't. Both 6 and 5 are head types. Your gut fix has to be a gut type: 8, 9 or 1.


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## Hero of Freedom

ENerdTP said:


> No, it can't. Both 6 and 5 are head types. Your gut fix has to be a gut type: 8, 9 or 1.


That leaves me at 1 or 9w8 then for the third? What is the difference between the two in more detail? I mention "9w8" because I find I match the description of wanting to neutralize whatever disturbs my peace unless that is just the security aspect of 6w5.


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## bremen

Sword of Justice said:


> That leaves me at 1 or 9w8 then for the third? What is the difference between the two in more detail? I mention "9w8" because I find I match the description of wanting to neutralize whatever disturbs my peace unless that is just the security aspect of 6w5.


No, for your gut fix, you can be 9w1-9w8-8w9-8w7-1w9-1w2 or any of those without wings. If you need descriptions for enneagram types, this is a good source: Enneagram Link. Theres also the sticky post in the enneagram subforum that can help decide which one you are.


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## He's a Superhero!

This thread should get stickied.


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## aloneinmusic

Sorry for the bump but I came across this topic just now. I've always wanted a proper description of a 451 since that's the tritype I think I am most likely to be.

And this just relates so well to me:

_"451 - knowledgeable and discerning 4. Most intellectual 4, especially if social subtyle of with a 5 wing."_

I've always thought considering I'm a type 4 for certain, that it is weird how much time I spend thinking and being theoretical, and even being a bit scientific- but I notice it still always comes back to me being an individualist and being abstract and creative. It's like the thinking part follows up my journey to find my identity and emotions and what I've already created.

I always feel like I'm very balanced between both my left and my right brain for that reason.


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## Gaiten

Didn't read every comment in this thread but it seems like there's a large amount of 458s, I'm a 854, if you're curious and have any questions about this particular type (which apparently is slightly less aggressive than the other variations) then please ask.


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## Manuscript

It looks like it's down to these two descriptions for myself:



> 5-4-1: these Fives are perhaps the most typical of this type’s usual description – they’re *withdrawn*, imaginative, ingenious, detail-oriented and sensitive. Very intelligent and creative but also somewhat *capricious*, *fussy* and *impractical*, they have explicit standards of intellectual ability and artistic taste and tend to reject and ridicule anything and anyone that doesn’t rise up to them. Typical *isolationists who feel misunderstood by society*, they *hide in their ivory tower of ideas and ideals*, abstractly *reconstructing reality according to their own terms*.





> 5-4-9: shy, somewhat fragile and *a bit romantic*, such Fives tend to put on a *congenial façade* to hide their rich inner worlds from the society. They outwardly appear friendly but *reserved*, usually mysterious to other people who sense there is more depth and intensity hidden behind their amiable mask. These Fives have rich imaginations and *love to immerse themselves in thoughts* and fantasies. They are introspective, dreamy, creative and *socially withdrawn*, but also *disorganized* and *painfully avoidant*.


Similarly, when I take the online tests, my results tend to follow 5 > 6 ~ 4 > 9 ~ 1, with little of the remaining types. I'd expect the 541 to be more organised, stubborn and argumentative than I am, yet the 549 and 594 sound like, I dunno, Luna Lovegood. Well, no typing system is perfect, but the glowing descriptions don't help.


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## typethisperson

I think The Good Samaritan, The Free Spirit or The Peacemaker pretty much sounds like the person i'm trying to type or at least the image she puts across to others.


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## guacamolefairy

268 – The Rescuer Archetype



madhatter said:


> 6-2-8
> Direct and caring 6, can appear 2ish as these 6s need to be caring to feel safe secure.


(2)-6-8 - The Reactive 2
2-(6)-8 - The Power-Seeking 6 
2-6-(8) - The Compliant 8



madhatter said:


> This type is characterized by the issues they have with others. They tend to get easily frustrated with others.


 yeeeeah, unfortunately



madhatter said:


> Your blind spot is that you can be so identified with the pride of knowing how to help others that you may give unsolicited advice or meddle in the affairs of others.


I don't like to think I do this - as I very very much dislike unsolicited advice myself. So I don't think I do this, but it will definitely be something I'll keep in mind to prevent from happening in the future.



madhatter said:


> You over-give to others to be well-liked, which prevents a deeper connection to your true self. Your growing edge is to recognize that always rescuing others does not mean that you will always be liked and cared for in return, and that it may prevent them from learning how to care for themselves.


Oh my word, so true. :bored:



madhatter said:


> The 268 is very take charge and is the true rescuer, EMT, helping the disadvantaged archetype. The 2 is connected to 8 already so if 8 is in the Tritype this Tritype may at first think that they are an 8.


yep



madhatter said:


> 682
> Direct and caring 6. This 6 is very supportive. A true Rescuer, this 6 is often mistaken for a 2 or 8. This 6 needs to be caring and protective to feel secure. This 6 is helpful but uncomfortable taking the lead and would rather be the right hand to the powerful person.


 low �� relate man



madhatter said:


> The core fears are of fear itself, danger, being alone, cowardice, submitting, deviance, uncertainty, being targeted, chaos, weakness, being controlled, disempowered, humiliated, vulnarable, at the mercy of injustice, worthless, needy, unappreciated, and inconsequential.


what they said 



madhatter said:


> [682] It is a very dynamic and caring tritype.... the struggle is knowing when the need to rescue interfers with your own well-being


yeah man 



madhatter said:


> The strongest theme I associate with the 268/682/826 is the need to rescue and protect, but not necessarily put up with problems on an extended basis. It's a kind of in-the-moment problem solving that expects the other to deal with it and move on.


Not as much: *for me* at least. 




madhatter said:


> For them [Sx-So 268] power is dead important, though it will be more obvious to the observer than to the person him/herself. Both 2 and 6 leads to some issues with denial.





madhatter said:


> But I do know that each of these at average to lower levels is very controlling in interpersonal relationships, very domineering (including the 6 due to the sx/so), highly reactive, and also explosive when they feel they aren't getting back what they 'deserve'.


Overall I found this true for myself. I don't know that I'm obsessively trying to control things in my relationships.. but, I do find that most of my friends (if not some, all), (while I'll have no doubt that they want to get together and hang out with me and 'no doubt' is rare for 6, which is always troubleshooting and sniffing out possible lies) they always depend on me to decide what movie we're watching, what time they're picking me up, etc. I don't really know why. Most of them are types with ignored Se and unconscious/not-flexed and thus quite inactive and limp Te, so that could be a contributor to being less expressive/assertive regarding logistics in plans. People often say the P part of ENFPs makes them disorganized and late to stuff and not good with plans, but I feel like the J in most of my relationships. Like, eh, is my Te really much better? xD Guess it has to be, or else I won't be hearing from my friends about the plans until the last minute, and that will throw off my entire schedule xD


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## Monadnock

The 458 Scholar is me, it is certainly me. "Studying what makes people tick", "wanting to discover what is innately human and share it with others". wanting to collect and build "maps of reality" to explain things. Dark, brooding taste in aesthetics, hence my avatar of a black hooded Mr. Andrei Rublev over there. Being able to go through the process of researching, brainstorming, forming opinions and sharing them/articulating them, completely unfazed by other people's disapproval and defying them when I'm sure of what I'm talking about. I've watched the Tritype DVD discussion of the 458 and David Fauvre refers to this as the "Dark Knight archetype". I chose Batman as an ideal who inspires me. I knew this was my Tritype without even having to take the quiz for it.


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## OrkFree

I just have to say OP this is really helpful, and very accurate for me.


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## Shiver

I relate to bits and pieces of far too many for these short descriptions to be all that useful in discerning between only a few.


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