# (Video) Help a poor, confused soul figure out their Enneagram type!



## TheCosmicCowgirl (Jan 22, 2014)

Hi everyone! I typed myself as a phobic 6w5, but I was reading an article the other day and now I'm confused again... Lol, I don't know what's wrong with me but I don't think I'm a very self-aware individual. Bear with me, this video is kind of long (you don't even have to watch it all) but if you could help me in any way, shape, or form I would greatly appreciate it. Any and all feedback is welcome! 

Here is the video of me babbling about all the Enneagram types in relation to myself:






Thanks for watching!


----------



## ShadowPrince (Jul 6, 2013)

Hi CosmicCowgirl, 

Your video was very interesting and though it did not take me more than a few minutes to recognize that you were most likely a type 2, I watched all of it to see what a 2 would think of the other types.

What you identified with in regards to type 3 often applies to type 2 as well. What you were reading was rather mediocre source material that does not always describe the types well at all. Type 3 is much more energetic and happy-looking when they get in front of an audience, which you don't display at all in your video. 3s are also more efficient and hard-working than you describe yourself. If you are annoyed with type 4s "tragic" self-concept and don't identify with type 1 at all then you are certainly not a type 4. All image types are interested in beauty and specialness to some degree, so your assessment that you were not a 4 were good observation.

I found it interesting that you identified with type 5 that much, which is something I have suspected a long time about 2s (since a lot of them mistype as 6w5), that they have more in common with 5s (as well as the reverse) than most people realize. You are not dry enough to be a 5 however. The instincts really doesn't make that much difference here when it comes to 5s. 5s would also have more reserve about posting a video of themselves (as would 9s) than you have. You also don't seem to be tormented enough to be a phobic 6 (and you are certainly not a rigid SO 6). Type 6 is not just insecure, they are _paranoid_, and phobic 6s have a lot of worst-case disaster fantasies which you don't come across as having. And as per your own assessment, type 7 and 8 doesn't match well. As an aspect of the "power triad", 2s and 5s have a self-concept of being independent just like 8s have even though outside observers might disagree.

When it comes to the difference between 2 and 9 you might want to consider if you are more impractical and impatient (2) than practical and patient (9), more passionate (2) than disinterested (9).

You seemed to be struggling to find the right words to explain the motivation for your own need for "support," and I wonder if you at all feel a need to be important and make an impact on the people in your life, and that perhaps this stems from a feeling of emptiness if you don't get noticed that you reinterprete as a lack of support? The difference between 2, 6 and 9 here is that phobic 6s need support as a form of protection from enemies and catastrophe by willingly being submissive to a family group, 9s wants to avoid being aware of themselves by disinterestedly doing for others (doing for others without passion) and 2s want support so people reflect the 2s importance and will support their passionate ideas in life.


----------



## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

so/sx 2w3 is what jumps out for me.

It's the 2 playing the social arena - in service to others to gain status and/or support within the social realm. Type 2 isn't simply about love but some form of appreciation, acknowledgement, etc. They're also not as altruistic as implied by the giver and helper labels but can sometimes be more about people pleasing (or manipulating) in order to make or maintain connections with others deemed important.


----------



## TheCosmicCowgirl (Jan 22, 2014)

ShadowPrince said:


> Hi CosmicCowgirl,
> 
> Your video was very interesting and though it did not take me more than a few minutes to recognize that you were most likely a type 2, I watched all of it to see what a 2 would think of the other types.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much for your response. I did type as 2w3 in the beginning, but I always felt like it wasn't quite right. As I mentioned, my mom is a 2. I typed her as a 2 before I made her take the test and she got 2w1 so I know she is definitely a 2. I feel like she is alot more demanding than I am when it comes to love/support. She wants and expects it and almost tries to force it, where as I would never do that. If somebody doesn't want to love me there is nothing I can do about it. She also gets hurt by people way more than I do when she feels like they aren't there for her. I see her as trying to force people to love her which is what I notice alot of 2s do, but something I would never ever try to do. I more or less try to test the waters by kind of opening up to them and seeing their reaction. Alot of the times I find that people only want my help and our relationship is built around that. But I should have explained that I will still help them or "scratch their back" regardless of what they do for me... Like I said, I have been unsuccessful in obtaining a support group. I would like to have one but I don't get bent out of shape about it in the way my mom does. 

As I mentioned in the video, I tend to become like whoever I'm around (I think this is mostly an extroverted feeling thing) and maybe it's possible that you're seeing a reflection of her in me. I really don't believe I'm a 2, but I'm not going to rule it out... just need more information. 

Also you said something about me not seeming tormented enough to be a phobic 6... I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that but I am insecure alot. I know I have dependent tendencies even though I said in my video that I like to be independent. I think it's mostly that I *wish* I was independent but I feel like I have to rely on other people to do things that they are better at than I am. Like for instance, I was not your typical teenager that was excited to start driving. I was afraid of everything that could go wrong (could literally picture them happening), I didn't trust myself, and I was afraid to let my parents down if anything did go wrong. I think I do cover it up really well because I don't want people to see that negative side of me. I want to come across as someone who is calm, cool, and collected. Someone that people can rely on. And I play that part extremely well. But inside I am always thinking about what could go wrong. For instance, just the other day my mom and I were walking to our car and a bum approached us. My mom told him that she would come back after she got some change from the car and I tried to talk her out of it on the way back. I told her that he needs to learn to be independent (which I do believe) but I imagined what would happen if he tried to jump us and take off with the car when we came back with it. In that moment I tried to figure out any way I could possibly turn a simple object into a weapon if I had to, all the while still feeling sorry for the guy and wanting to help him. This is just one example, but this is pretty much my brain at any given moment. After the ordeal was said and done (obviously, he didn't jump us) I started thinking about how what the guy really needs is information, not money. He was obviously a drunk. I have compassion, but not in the same way as my 2 mother does. She gives without thinking.


----------



## ShadowPrince (Jul 6, 2013)

People of the same type can be rather different, so I wouldn't rule out type 2 just because of that. This difference is due to the so called "subtypes." There are different takes on what causes a subtype, such as wingtype, instinctual variant, or co-fixations (Tri-Fix), and so on. Personally I cannot vouch for wingtypes, and do not recommend using them.

As for instinctual variant, again there are two divergent takes on instincts in the E-community. There's the Naranjo/Chestnut teaching that describe specific traits of instinctual subtypes which I find more potent, then there is the Riso/Hudson approach to instincts that isolate the instincts into its own subsystem, which makes people far more prone to confuse type traits with instinct traits and sometimes ends up "prefering" the stackings system over the actual core types system. Thus I will type you using the former, in which you correlate to *Self-Preservation 2*. What you describe as 6ish traits, insecurity and such, is easily explained by the fact that Self-Preservation types are the most guarded and less trusting of the subtypes. SP 2 is thus the "countertype" among Twos. This is how Chestnut describes them:



> SP Twos seduce like a child in the presence of grown-ups. Having the strongest love need of the three Twos, they strive to be charming and giving in the service of unconsciously maneuvering other people into liking them and taking care of them. More childlike than the other Twos, SP Twos are more fearful of and ambivalent about relationships, so can look like Sixes. (This is the countertype)


As you can see she describes them as "more fearful of and ambivalent about relationships, so can look like Sixes." 

Phobic 6s (really SP 6s) would usually identify more with type 4 than you did in your video. It is difficult to explain the difference since it is mostly something I see in you which can't be put into words. I can see why you feel tempted to type yourself as a phobic 6, but I can't agree with that typing. 

As for the Tri-Fix version, in which one has a fixation in each center, you appear to easily have 2 in the heart center, 9 in the gut center, and 5 or 6 in the head center. The question is which is your main fixation (I would suggest the order of 2-5-9 or 2-6-9).


----------



## TheCosmicCowgirl (Jan 22, 2014)

ShadowPrince said:


> People of the same type can be rather different, so I wouldn't rule out type 2 just because of that. This difference is due to the so called "subtypes." There are different takes on what causes a subtype, such as wingtype, instinctual variant, or co-fixations (Tri-Fix), and so on. Personally I cannot vouch for wingtypes, and do not recommend using them.
> 
> As for instinctual variant, again there are two divergent takes on instincts in the E-community. There's the Naranjo/Chestnut teaching that describe specific traits of instinctual subtypes which I find more potent, then there is the Riso/Hudson approach to instincts that isolate the instincts into its own subsystem, which makes people far more prone to confuse type traits with instinct traits and sometimes ends up "prefering" the stackings system over the actual core types system. Thus I will type you using the former, in which you correlate to *Self-Preservation 2*. What you describe as 6ish traits, insecurity and such, is easily explained by the fact that Self-Preservation types are the most guarded and less trusting of the subtypes. SP 2 is thus the "countertype" among Twos. This is how Chestnut describes them:
> 
> ...


I just got this result on a tri-type test so maybe you're right: 
Your trifix is 2w3, 6w5, 9w8

I've actually had this result several times before but sometimes it's 6w5, 9w8, 2w3 or 6w5, 2w3, 9w8. I'm having no doubt now about these types, just the order of them. Btw, my mom is 2w1, 9w1, 5w6 so it's almost the same trifix. Makes me wonder if I'm not just doing the sponge thing I was talking about, attributing myself to her because I have no real identity of my own. 

Just fyi, I've also typed 6w5, 9w8, 4w3 before so idk.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@ShadowPrince
she seemed a bit laconic to be a 2 imo, but if she is a 2, then I agree with Self Preservation 2 (female Social 2 is more bossy, "Queen Bee" and Sexual 2 is evocative, "dangerous temptation". both tend to have a much more prominent energy than what I saw in the video)

also


> You are not dry enough to be a 5 however. The instincts really doesn't make that much difference here when it comes to 5s..


I would disagree with this (namely the last part). Self Preservation 5 and Social 5 are very dry, but Sexual 5 has a bit more personality and, for lack of a better word, soul (as in depth of feeling. not soul as in type 8 diva black woman :tongue: ). also, this is just my observations, but they seem the most connected to their instincts/bodies of the 5s, are often intensely sexual and have a certain dark allure about them (some things that come to mind immediately as Sexual 5-ish would be the band Evanescence, the Victorian Goth style and most Tim Burton/Johnny Depp collaborations ).


----------



## ShadowPrince (Jul 6, 2013)

I think laconic can be a perfect fit for a lot of type 2s, some of them are surprisingly poor at using words since their thinking style is very impressionistic and tends to be lacking in facts. The SP2 can seem downright shy when you don't know them well. I also disagree that they tend to have a much more prominent energy than what we see here. Except for certain periods when the 2 can be caught in their madness, the 2 is noticeably slower than type 3 and 7 regardless of subtype.

My comment regarding the 5s was mainly in contrast to what CosmicCowgirl was saying about the possibility of being a Social 5. If she was a 5 I'd only suggest Sexual 5 as a possibility, but in my experience the Sexual 5 is also the most quiet 5.


----------



## RedRedo (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm no expert, and the other posts are full of really good points, but I don't see you as a 2. I see phobic 6w5, or maybe 5w6 or 9. If you do tritypes (I don't), you could throw a 2 into that.

Someone who "resonates with 5 a lot" is not a 2. Your video about ESFJs is just you criticizing and failing to understand a list of typical 2 behaviors. (And I totally agree with you!) All the 2ish things you said sounded more like other types, that could be compared to 2 in that small way. Like being helpful? So do 5s and 6s. The difference is 2 wants people to rely on that help, 5 likes having been competent enough to help, and 6 has something to prove. Feel shame for not doing enough? Could be 2/3 always believing they should do more...or could be 4/5/9 actually not doing much. 2 doesn't doubt that you should expect people to support you, or imagine having a self-sufficient homestead. (Homesteading is so very 6.) At most, a 2 would say they're having _trouble_ getting the support they were expecting, or imagine a family homestead as a romantic fantasy.

Your replies in this thread read like a 5 or a 6. You've thought this out the way a 5 or 6 would. 5 (perhaps along with 4) is most drawn to typology in general, unless your main focus really is just giving advice (2). And just being online skews the odds to 5 and 6, or 4 if you have a blog. But you're not a 4, and ShadowPrince is quite right that a 5 would be unlikely to make the video in the first place. Based on this discussion itself, I again lean to 6w5 for your type.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

ShadowPrince said:


> I think laconic can be a perfect fit for a lot of type 2s, some of them are surprisingly poor at using words since their thinking style is very impressionistic and tends to be lacking in facts. The SP2 can seem downright shy when you don't know them well. I also disagree that they tend to have a much more prominent energy than what we see here. Except for certain periods when the 2 can be caught in their madness, the 2 is noticeably slower than type 3 and 7 regardless of subtype.


slower, yes, but _bigger_. for example: 
Social 2: Oprah Winfrey





Sexual 2: Madonna (Sexual 2 is a bit quieter energy, but it still screams "pay attention to me!". I'm not getting that from OP)





for Self Preservation 2 I agree. their energy is more "cute, shy child" (imo, Sp 2 and Sx 3 can be confused a lot because Sx 3 is the "cute teenager" which can look similar)



> My comment regarding the 5s was mainly in contrast to what CosmicCowgirl was saying about the possibility of being a Social 5. If she was a 5 I'd only suggest Sexual 5 as a possibility, but in my experience the Sexual 5 is also the most quiet 5.


imo, Sp 5 is the quietest 5


----------



## ShadowPrince (Jul 6, 2013)

RedRedo said:


> Your replies in this thread read like a 5 or a 6. You've thought this out the way a 5 or 6 would. 5 (perhaps along with 4) is most drawn to typology in general, unless your main focus really is just giving advice (2). And just being online skews the odds to 5 and 6, or 4 if you have a blog.


Her replies really don't read like 5. A 5 would have narrowed down their type much more significantly and not come acrossed as so confused. A 5 would also tend to show more curiosity towards the different schools of the Enneagram regarding subtypes than she has shown (as would head types in general), asking for more information and so on. And a 5 getting "2w3" first on a Tritype test with no 5 score in the tritype result at all? As bad as those tests tend to be I don't see that as very likely.

All types can be found online these days, that is a too prejudiced view. I have encountered several 2s online, and a lot of them are surprisingly geeky. 2s are curious to learn typology in order to better manipulate, seduce, or "make people happy." How she says things in the video is more revealing to me than what she says. And she says that her primary reason for going along with others is to make them happy. There is no sense of admiration or ideals, no identification with type 1 which you would find in the prudent 6s, and she also doesn't identify with hard work. She doesn't resemble a head type, she vibes much more like a feeling type.


----------



## ShadowPrince (Jul 6, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> also, this is just my observations, but they seem the most connected to their instincts/bodies of the 5s, are often intensely sexual and have a certain dark allure about them (some things that come to mind immediately as Sexual 5-ish would be the band Evanescence, the Victorian Goth style and most Tim Burton/Johnny Depp collaborations ).


I'm going to have to say that I kinda disagree with this Victorian Goth association with Sexual 5s (or even Victorian Goth with "intensely sexual"). It is a strange way to charactarize a type. I have some experience with the goth or general underground scene and have met quite a variety of types there including Sexual 1s, 2s, 4s, 5s, Sexual 6s, 7s, 8s...and among them 5s rarely bothered to dress the style as much as some of the other types...though black can be common. 

Then there's the further problem that 5s are more rare among celebrities than people think and a lot of artists and filmmakers are wrongly typed as 5s simply because they are "dark" or weird. I took a look at some interviews with Evanscence and none of them struck me as Sexual 5s, or even 5s:





The singer seems like a Social 2, a type which seems to be drawn to the whole "gothic diva" thing.
Tim Burton does appear to be a Sexual 5 though, but I'm not sure I would call him and his films "intensely sexual."

Could you elaborate on how you view Sexual 5s as "intensely sexual"? I don't think I disagree, but I'm not sure what you're referring to.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@ShadowPrince


> *The singer seems like a Social 2*, a type which seems to be drawn to the whole "gothic diva" thing.
> Tim Burton does appear to be a Sexual 5 though, but I'm not sure I would call him and his films "intensely sexual."


....what? you're gonna have to explain that one XD
the only 2 I could see Amy as is Sexual 2. Social 2 typically comes off as having a brighter, "star" sort of energy about them (kind of like Sexual 3, but more emotionally available, less "porcelain" and often a bit more domineering). unlike both the Social 2 and the Self Preservation 2, which is more the "cute little (spoiled) angel", Sexual 2 is a darker, more bad boy/bad girl 2. (the charming scoundrel you want to keep your daughters away from, the seductive vampire who entices you stay around to use you for sustenance, the promiscuous bimbo you are afraid your daughter will turn out to be like. hell, Satan himself might have been a Sexual 2 lmao!)

still, I think Sexual 4 or Sexual 5 are more likely for Amy. 



> Could you elaborate on how you view Sexual 5s as "intensely sexual"? I don't think I disagree, but I'm not sure what you're referring to.


Sexual 5 is among the most romantic types on the Enneagram. they are looking for the perfect person to "share their bubble" and pour all their energy into finding that person and, once that person is found, merging them in a manner similar to Sexual 9

PS: I watched more of the video and agree with your Sp 2 typing for @TheCosmicCowgirl


----------



## ShadowPrince (Jul 6, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> ....what? you're gonna have to explain that one XD


She simply reminds me of another Social 2 singer, Tarja Turunen, and the actress Jodi Lyn O'Keefe who I also type as Social 2 because there is much more competency, tastefulness and intelligence than you see in Sexual 2 women. 









What I can say without a doubt is that Amy is no 4 or 5. Type 5 women, even Sexual 5 women, are more awkward and have some degree of shyness or stutter to them that you don't see in Amy.



Swordsman of Mana said:


> Sexual 5 is among the most romantic types on the Enneagram. they are looking for the perfect person to "share their bubble" and pour all their energy into finding that person and, once that person is found, merging them in a manner similar to Sexual 9


I see. I thought you meant sexual in a more non-enneagram language way.


----------



## TheCosmicCowgirl (Jan 22, 2014)

@ShadowPrince @Swordsman of Mana @RedRedo @enneathusiast

Here is something I wrote in reply to someone the other day about my identity problems. I thought maybe it'd be of some help in typing:




> The main thing that I'm trying to say is that I only see myself through everyone else's eyes. Other than that I have no idea what I am which has led to alot of issues obviously, especially with the type of people that I have most often been around. I'll try to sum this up as much as I can, but it's kind of complicated.
> 
> When I was younger I never questioned when people tried to change me that they were trying to help me out of sincere caring and concern. So I would do whatever they wanted without question. Some examples would be changing my clothing/appearance, attitude, and even personality to fit the mold someone wanted for me. This happened with my peers, teachers, and even my parents to an extent. When you're a child, you're the most impressionable and that was the period of time I should have been figuring out "who I was" but I was too busy trying to please everyone around me. Looking back on it now, I feel like I should have been mad or sad about it but I wasn't. I only felt upset when I would change and then find that it wasn't enough for that person. They were never happy with me. I started to feel flawed and insignificant, like something must be wrong with me for so many people to try to change me. It wasn't the type of deal where I would sit around and mope about it all the time, I just felt upset in the moment that I couldn't be what they needed. It doesn't help when they're also calling you worthless, freak of nature, weird, ugly, etc. Now that I'm older I realize that these people were just controlling bullies but I haven't lost the feeling that I still don't have my own identity.
> 
> ...


I'm starting to think 2 might fit, but I'm having issues with the self-preservation typing. Here's the weird deal with that... I suppose I am self-preserving in the sense that I'm always looking to keep things from going wrong, and foreseeing any issues that might crop up. I am definitely a problem solver/troubleshooter. However, that usually translates to those around me. When we were having a financial crisis, I was willing to give up my dream to support my mom. I do feel a great deal of responsibility but I wouldn't call myself responsible. I actually hate obligations being placed on me for this reason... because I feel an overwhelming sense of pressure and I worry that I might not live up to the expectation. I actually have alot of self doubt, but I don't want anyone to know it. Staying calm and appearing in control is part of the image I want to convey. If somebody could hear what goes on inside, they wouldn't take me seriously. 

Reasons I don't see myself as self-preserving is because I don't care about comfort, security, or my surroundings. In fact, if it was just me I had to worry about I would probably be a traveling musician living in the back of a van. Of course I can see all the possibilities of how that would be unsafe, and I would work to minimize those possibilities, but I would still take the risk. It would be invigorating.

BTW, in that Madonna interview I can kind of relate to her replies. She seems to have the same speech style as me, but I feel like I can be alot more expressive than her. In the video I made, I was actually very tired and I was trying to be quiet because my mom was in the other room, so that might've skewed it a bit. I feel like if I were to be interviewed by someone, I would be a little more lighthearted, trying to make jokes and such. I would say that I'm more non-serious than serious in everyday life. I laugh loud and I like to have fun. I appear serious in my videos though because I'm talking about serious subjects. 

I do not really resonate with Amy Lee at all. She actually seems alot more like a 4 to me but that's my opinion. She talked about enjoying a sort of low that she gets on, which I don't understand. She talks about putting her feelings into songs which again, doesn't really resonate with me. All of her songs have a dark/depressing vibe and I seem to only be able to write happy songs or songs with happy endings even when I consciously try to write something depressing. When I'm pissed the best songs usually come out of it, but they're always about overcoming your obstacle and they're for *everyone*, not just me or some emotion I want to get out. I very much feel like my purpose in life is to encourage and empower others. On the other hand though, I do tend to listen to mostly music that has a dark, sardonic, or sci-fi theme. It doesn't seem to effect my actual mood, I'm just sort of attracted to it. 



> Sexual 5 is among the most romantic types on the Enneagram. they are looking for the perfect person to "share their bubble" and pour all their energy into finding that person and, once that person is found, merging them in a manner similar to Sexual 9


I do really relate to this. I'm always imagining what it might be like to be with someone who completely understands me. I would literally share everything with them. I would give them everything. Of course that's not realistic though. I won't even bother "dating" someone if I can't get some kind of mental connection with them. And of course I'm so strange that it usually doesn't happen, that I really connect with someone that is. But I do often imagine what it would be like...


----------



## ShadowPrince (Jul 6, 2013)

If I ever had any doubt that you were a 2, then it is gone now. 2s are shape-shifters, just as you described yourself to your friend and that is also what I see in Amy Lee who is simply trying to fit into the genre. She may talk about low moods and trying to be genuine but she doesn't carry herself like a 4 at all. Too confident and talkative, even for a Sexual 4, and I checked several interviews. 

For example, in this one she says that she was afraid to be happy or write happy because "it's not cool or something" (and she says it with a similar annoyance as you did when talking about negative 4s in your video). She seems relieved that she went ahead and broke the pressure to be gloomy.






Would a 4 really say something like this about other 4s? 
"... [they are] describing happiness as lithium, like it's numbness, 'I won't be an artist anymore if I'm happy'...which is hilarious...because I'm happy [and I'm an artist]."

She really does look like she prefers to be happy, I see no pessimism or torment in her at all in a single interview, not even when she talks about her supposedly low moods. She's almost 7-like at times.


Addition: about the Self-preservation thing. A Self-Preservation 2 is not going to have the same focus on self-preservation as other types. The type and instinct always mix in a unique way, so there's no general way of describing the instincts in a definite way or how it's going to manifest itself. You have to look at the actual subtype descriptions.


----------



## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

@TheCosmicCowgirl
Watched some of the videos in your signature. Sounds like your interest in personality type has something to do with understanding relationships. If so, that could be a clue to your type.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@ShadowPrince
not sure of her type, but <333 Tarja Turunen! :happy:


----------

