# Non genetic mental illnesses resulting from Supervision relationships



## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

Hey guys, I’ve seen the devastating results of close supervision relationships leading to severe mental illnesses and now any time I see a person who’s developed a non genetic mental condition I wonder if they have a supervisor close by- like Brittany Spears for example.. does anyone have a good idea what type she might be? I find it hard typing her due to get mental state. Please share if you have thoughts on this topic at all.


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> Hey guys, I’ve seen the devastating results of close supervision relationships leading to severe mental illnesses and now any time I see a person who’s developed a non genetic mental condition I wonder if they have a supervisor close by- like Brittany Spears for example.. does anyone have a good idea what type she might be? I find it hard typing her due to get mental state. Please share if you have thoughts on this topic at all.


? That’s more like conflictor. Supervision is necessary for the individual and society.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

DavidGH said:


> ? That’s more like conflictor. Supervision is necessary for the individual and society.


Not at all necessary. Your supervisor is actually the absolute worst thing for you at a close distance or for a prolonged period of time. Conflictor relationships, despite what they're called aren't that bad.. They're just characterized by constant bickering and opposing points of view, but each are equally strong in defending their own point of view and equally strong in poking holes in the other persons arguments- the relationship can get exhausting but that's because there's never a clear winner between the two. Supervision is horrible because both sides have completely opposing worldviews but the supervisee is completely defenceless in defending himself against the supervisors arguments.


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> Not at all necessary. Your supervisor is actually the absolute worst thing for you at a close distance or for a prolonged period of time. Conflictor relationships, despite what they're called aren't that bad.. They're just characterized by constant bickering and opposing points of view, but each are equally strong in defending their own point of view and equally strong in poking holes in the other persons arguments- the relationship can get exhausting but that's because there's never a clear winner between the two. Supervision is horrible because both sides have completely opposing worldviews but the supervisee is completely defenceless in defending himself against the supervisors arguments.


That isn’t the correct information that you’ve been reading. Opposing world views is conflictor, which is directly orthogonal.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

DavidGH said:


> That isn’t the correct information that you’ve been reading. Opposing world views is conflictor, which is directly orthogonal.


Yes doll I said that.. I guess you're just a skimmer hence your limited knowledge which looks like it is based on the titles of the intertypes. I said both conflictors and supervisors have opposing worldviews but at each side of the conflictors are able to defend their side equally. I read A LOT of all the correct information


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> Yes doll I said that.. I guess you're just a skimmer hence your limited knowledge which looks like it is based on the titles of the intertypes. I said both conflictors and supervisors have opposing worldviews but at each side of the conflictors are able to defend their side equally. I read A LOT of all the correct information


Except you don’t. The supervisor is only as you described in information written by people who don’t know Socionics. The supervisor is not an opposing worldview. It is a tangent worldview. If you’re Delta, the only Quadra with an opposing worldview is Beta. The other two are tangential.


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## ReliK (Feb 24, 2019)

maybe. in mbti looping has been linked to particular personality disorders. Constant exposure to a supervisory dynamic may cause ones trickster and demon to become so charged that the only line of defense is to differentiate the tert. When the tert becomes more active than the aux, you get a loop. 

Or I'm just making shit up. hah.


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

ultracrepidarian said:


> maybe. in mbti looping has been linked to particular personality disorders. Constant exposure to a supervisory dynamic may cause ones trickster and demon to become so charged that the only line of defense is to differentiate the tert. When the tert becomes more active than the aux, you get a loop.
> 
> Or I'm just making shit up. hah.


Well sounded funny to me


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

DavidGH said:


> Except you don’t. The supervisor is only as you described in information written by people who don’t know Socionics. The supervisor is not an opposing worldview. It is a tangent worldview. If you’re Delta, the only Quadra with an opposing worldview is Beta. The other two are tangential.


Ok thanks bud.

If anyone understands supervision and understands that prolonged close relations with a supervisor can quite often lead to the development of mental illness please contribute. Thankssss


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> Ok thanks bud.
> 
> If anyone understands supervision and understands that prolonged close relations with a supervisor can quite often lead to the development of mental illness please contribute. Thankssss


Have you tried asking your dad?


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

DavidGH said:


> Foxyfox said:
> 
> 
> > Ok thanks bud.
> ...


 Nah but I’ll ask your mom when she’s back from “work”


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> Nah but I’ll ask your mom when she’s back from “work”


Hah! Is that when he supervised you?


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

DavidGH said:


> Foxyfox said:
> 
> 
> > Nah but I’ll ask your mom when she’s back from “work”
> ...


Bro get a life.. this convo thread ain’t for you. Beat it with ur hurt feelings .. little weakling


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> Bro get a life.. this convo thread ain’t for you. Beat it with ur hurt feelings .. little weakling


Hahaha! I get it. The “female” gender is so you don’t feel so bad about the “supervision”


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

DavidGH said:


> Foxyfox said:
> 
> 
> > Bro get a life.. this convo thread ain’t for you. Beat it with ur hurt feelings .. little weakling
> ...


lol esl much. Ur getting too much attention from me. Signing off but before I go.. I’m sure your mother told you enough so this is just a reminder - you are a pathetic little thing lol


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> lol esl much. Ur getting too much attention from me. Signing off but before I go.. I’m sure your mother told you enough so this is just a reminder - you are a pathetic little thing lol


Hey, look guys! It’s a gay dude!


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

DavidGH said:


> Foxyfox said:
> 
> 
> > lol esl much. Ur getting too much attention from me. Signing off but before I go.. I’m sure your mother told you enough so this is just a reminder - you are a pathetic little thing lol
> ...


Lol *points at himself* ... not that there’s anything wrong with gay guys of course. Just u lol


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> Lol *points at himself* ... not that there’s anything wrong with gay guys of course. Just u lol


Is that what your supervisor told you?


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

DavidGH said:


> Foxyfox said:
> 
> 
> > Lol *points at himself* ... not that there’s anything wrong with gay guys of course. Just u lol
> ...


 I’m your supervisor 🙂 u little b


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> I’m your supervisor &#55357;&#56898; u little b


Wow, you sure like getting supervised


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

Foxyfox said:


> Hey guys, I’ve seen the devastating results of close supervision relationships leading to severe mental illnesses and now any time I see a person who’s developed a non genetic mental condition I wonder if they have a supervisor close by- like Brittany Spears for example.. does anyone have a good idea what type she might be? I find it hard typing her due to get mental state. Please share if you have thoughts on this topic at all.


Spears is typed as SEI-Fe according to this gallery, and SEI/SEE going by this poll. Most agree that she is an SF irrational ethical type, which would make rational ST, LSE or LSI, be her supervision type. Her mental state, however, is likely disintegrating due to some other factors. Stuff like awful parenting, alcohol and drug which lots of celebs use btw, and some prescription drugs can mess up your mental state far worse and much quicker than any supervision relations and even lead to an early death, and these are far more widespread sources of poor mental and emotional state.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

I don't think you've been in a conflict relationship before, or in other words I don't think you've dealt with a conflict for long enough to notice the effect of it. 

Conflict is when neither of you agree with each others world views. It's like two people who "clash". I believe one of my brothers is my conflictor as we can get into fights so easily and we are often critical and disapproving of eachother. It doesn't mean we can't have a civil conversation but even then it feels superficial and tense. Any opinion he has I will think "no that's not right".

I see supervision more as a student teacher relationship.


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## PluckyDucky (Apr 17, 2019)

Sounds like Sylas and Bad Bunny have good points.

Relationships aren't everything..an EII in any situations where Se is emphazised might find it mentally difficult regardless of the types of the people involved. 

And then there's just stuff that is always mentally challenging to deal with. Loss, hatred, abuse, illnesses...

So I think supervision relationships can be damaging, but other parts of life also play a big part.

Britney probably had to deal with a lot of people who were invested in her success e.g. managers, sponsors etc. lots of them probably had a supervisory role (literally) and some may have also been "supervisor" types. So she probably dealt with her fair share.

Sorry but I don't know much about conflict relationships


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

That doesn't sound like a thing


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Devilicious said:


> That doesn't sound like a thing


Ever see a stepdad that lives the fantasy of being the real father?


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

Idk how an IR could lead to mental illness tbh. I can see how supervisor IR is worse for supervisee than conflictor because of it's asymmetry, but a mental illness, that's a stretch.




Bad Bunny said:


> I don't think you've been in a conflict relationship before, or in other words I don't think you've dealt with a conflict for long enough to notice the effect of it.
> 
> Conflict is when neither of you agree with each others world views. It's like two people who "clash". I believe one of my brothers is my conflictor as we can get into fights so easily and we are often critical and disapproving of eachother. It doesn't mean we can't have a civil conversation but even then it feels superficial and tense. Any opinion he has I will think "no that's not right".
> 
> I see supervision more as a student teacher relationship.


Supervision is not teacher student though, it's more like writer/editor, except writer writes fine and editor just doesn't like their writing. Your natural way is wrong and you don't know why but this person constantly keeps telling you it is and want's you to change but you can't.

My roommate is my supervisee and it's like he cannot not piss me off somehow and I have to keep telling him to stop doing the things that piss me off and he just can't, until I do certain things that end up "supervising" him, it's pretty classically socionics to be honest. And to him things seem fine until I'm pissed off.

Without even intentionally trying, or even knowing sometimes, I curb his lead function, don't quench his thirst for the mobilizing function, and indulge in my lead function which makes him suppress himself. And he relies on me quite a bit with his suggestive, which is weak for me so it tires me out for someone to rely on it so much. And you know how someone speaks when they are exhausted "I don't know why you keep asking me! figure it out yourself!" and I can't even express how many times that has been said between me and him.

Dual is more teacher student, but it goes both ways. I think Benefit is also more teacher student but one way.


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## L P (May 30, 2017)

PluckyDucky said:


> Sounds like Sylas and Bad Bunny have good points.
> 
> Relationships aren't everything..an EII in any situations where Se is emphazised might find it mentally difficult regardless of the types of the people involved.
> 
> ...


Mentally difficult but ultimately physically difficult/exhausting, idk if you also meant that as well and just were speaking in general. But my god yes, it's like "HOLD UP WE NEED TO SLOW DOWN I NEED A BREAK FROM ALL THIS SE!" lol. And a bunch of eye rolling if topics revolve around too much Se "Hey so my car has a V8 20XL combobilator" "Well my car has a 20XL ZTX refridgezator, the brand new model, I got it for a deal in XX place for XX price because I know a guy that's friends with one of my drinking buddies. He can down a whole keg man!" I guess that's where it's more mental exhaustion.

I remember I did an mma cardio class and my god, it seemed like everybody else could stick it through but my god...and it never got easier, I had to quit a few months later. One interesting thing I noticed was I had a real hard time switching from one exercise to another. Repeating the same one over was easy, but doing one thing than quickly switching to another, that had me so exhausted and just needing to slow down and take a break, too many different things in such a short time. Idk if that's exactly Se but the physical exertion and endurance definitely made me think it's linked somehow. And the worst part was when someone would come by and say "Push! Keep going! Don't Stop!" That definitely just felt like Se, and felt like they were exhausting what little Se I had left, probably overestimating it and not knowing I was close to death lol.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

PluckyDucky said:


> Sounds like Sylas and Bad Bunny have good points.
> 
> Relationships aren't everything..an EII in any situations where Se is emphazised might find it mentally difficult regardless of the types of the people involved.
> 
> ...


Yeah that's the thing..my point is that I don't think people realize how much a bad relationship (namely supervision) can actually affect a persons mental health. Yes of course other more obvious factors are typically what get the blame* when a persons mental heath deteriorates, but thats probably because we aren't looking at all the possible factors. If you read the descriptions of supervision relationships you'll see that they explain how sadly in prolonged close supervision relations quite often the supervisee eventually succumbs to insanity.. and as I mentioned in the original post- I saw it happen right in front of my own eyes to people close to me, so really I'm trying to shed a little light where people don't normally look.


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## Foxyfox (Oct 21, 2016)

Bad Bunny said:


> I don't think you've been in a conflict relationship before, or in other words I don't think you've dealt with a conflict for long enough to notice the effect of it.
> 
> Conflict is when neither of you agree with each others world views. It's like two people who "clash". I believe one of my brothers is my conflictor as we can get into fights so easily and we are often critical and disapproving of eachother. It doesn't mean we can't have a civil conversation but even then it feels superficial and tense. Any opinion he has I will think "no that's not right".
> 
> I see supervision more as a student teacher relationship.


Yes you're right I haven't had prolonged contact with a conflictor, the only "deep" contact to date with one was definitely annoying- we argued for 4 hours straight trying to get the other person to bend a little and neither one of us did at all. Not only was it exhausting but pointless and a waste of time. Now when I meet a conflictor I make sure to keep the convos light and superficial... at all costs


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## DavidGH (Aug 10, 2019)

Foxyfox, you stated that the mental illness is not genetic. Is the supervisor genetic?


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## PluckyDucky (Apr 17, 2019)

Foxyfox said:


> Yeah that's the thing..my point is that I don't think people realize how much a bad relationship (namely supervision) can actually affect a persons mental health. Yes of course other more obvious factors are typically what get the blame* when a persons mental heath deteriorates, but thats probably because we aren't looking at all the possible factors. If you read the descriptions of supervision relationships you'll see that they explain how sadly in prolonged close supervision relations quite often the supervisee eventually succumbs to insanity.. and as I mentioned in the original post- I saw it happen right in front of my own eyes to people close to me, so really I'm trying to shed a little light where people don't normally look.


Hmm, I think you are right..a lot of people do underestimate the importance of relationships, and in particular the damage of bad ones. I don't know if this is linked totally to type, but I definitely undervalue my relationships with others, and this often leads to really tough times.

However I also think a lot of people don't. For example people like yourself, who are interested in "shedding more light" on areas many find difficult, are around doing a lot of good.

When people typically point to more obvious factors, maybe it seems like they are diminishing the effect of fundamentally challenging relationships on mental health. But I would say that in fact the pointing to more obvious simple factors, actually shows how complex and difficult those relationships are to deal with. There are a whole lot of reasons why a person may have bad mental health, but those harsh relationships can be equally damaging and yet often a lot more complicated and difficult to resolve. Like Sylas said, there are many different widespread causes and they often get more attention.

I'm sorry you watched people close to you go through bad times. I think its a good thing for anybody to explore further in this subject, if it can help the people they care about. I would imagine socionics is quite helpful to a degree, since it deals with relationships, but I'm not sure the theory behind supervision taken on its own is nuanced enough. Hopefully general good advice on mental health and a solid support network can still help individuals in those parts of their lives where socionics doesn't have the answers.


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