# This cliche topic for a thread (INFJ vs INFP). Help. Confused.



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Any way you try to slice it or change it the truth still slips through and floats on. Change my mind I will not...
I dont throw a bunch nonsense around and misleading information, when I do mention type or mistype I gurantee will be done by knowledgeable understanding...


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Correction:

A better term for Ni's considerations would be "might" or "might not" because it's a prediction.

"Could" or "could not" is more Ne.


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

INFJennifer said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> 
> So by your observations, which type is more prone to crying when a character dies in a movie or book?


 That type defined by "Has empathy and cares about people" is called "not a psychopath" and comprises approximately 99% of the population :laughing:

Seriously, INTPs are among the most famous on this site for being robots, but I have cried at:

various Frozen fanfictions
Imitation Game
various episodes of Doctor Who
Inside Out


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> INFJennifer said:
> 
> 
> > What if I know that the possibilities are not possible, but just do it for fun anyway?
> ...


Hmm... Okay... 

...This is why I doubt if I'm Fe or Fi. Because I love making people happy. And when in school there's a uniform day, I always message my friends to tell me what they want to wear, because I certainly don't want to stand out. 

Fi and Fe. Confusing.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> Hmm... Okay...
> 
> ...This is why I doubt if I'm Fe or Fi. Because I love making people happy. And when in school there's a uniform day, I always message my friends to tell me what they want to wear, because I certainly don't want to stand out.
> 
> Fi and Fe. Confusing.


Fi doesn't care about standing out, especially if it's in a second-position.

You sound like an ENFP. They tend to like making people happy. It's almost a stereotype.

I have _never_ coordinated outfits with friends. It never even occurred to me.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> INFJennifer said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm... Okay...
> ...


R-Really...? *tries to hold smile but failed*

My ESFJ sister is so extroverted, though. And I told her to be quiet many times because it just does something to my heart. 

I prefer staying home too. 

Do P hate sudden things? Like, you suddenly are asked to go to the swimming pool and you rejected because it's sudden?

...Sorry for the loadful of questions. I always worry about little things, and I want to confirm that this is actually my type.

Time to go search for 'You know you're not an INFJ/INFP/ENFP when...' threads.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> R-Really...? *tries to hold smile but failed*
> 
> My ESFJ sister is so extroverted, though. And I told her to be quiet many times because it just does something to my heart.
> 
> ...


Those threads are awful. Anyone can just project their own little quirks into their type and assume it's part of the type.

Study cognitive functions.

P and J don't mean anything-- they decide the order of function and nothing else-- there are "orderly" Ps and "disorderly" Js.

ENFPs can be pretty much homebodies-- I know a few.

If INFJ is the "most extroverted introvert", ENFPs are the "most introverted extrovert".


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> Those threads are awful. Anyone can just project their own little quirks into their type and assume it's part of the type.
> 
> Study cognitive functions.
> 
> ...


Thank you. Hmm, can I ask you, what is the difference between INFP and ENFP?


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> Thank you. Hmm, can I ask you, what is the difference between INFP and ENFP?


Function order.

INFP: Fi-Ne-Si-Te
ENFP: Ne-Fi-Te-Si

INFPs will have extremely limited ability to know how to organize their actions for effectiveness and logical follow-through.

ENFPs will be a little more rational


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> Function order.
> 
> INFP: Fi-Ne-Si-Te
> ENFP: Ne-Fi-Te-Si
> ...


Well, that makes sense. I might really be an ENFP. Not all introverts are shy and not all extroverts are outgoing, after all. 

Well, they have the same function order (N-F-T-S). So that makes sense why I'm mistyped, I think?


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> Well, that makes sense. I might really be an ENFP. Not all introverts are shy and not all extroverts are outgoing, after all.


You have this rather "light-hearted" aura about you that INFPs tend to not have.

They tend to be pretty heavy.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> You have this rather "light-hearted" aura about you that INFPs tend to not have.
> 
> They tend to be pretty heavy.


*thanks your posts* I can get serious sometimes, but every types can. 

Hmm... is this an ENFP thing? To think about something, but walk around the house, going back to room, then walking around the house, and realized, "Where am I?"

Might be unrelated, but what is the difference between Se and Si?


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> *thanks your posts* I can get serious sometimes, but every types can.
> 
> Hmm... is this an ENFP thing? To think about something, but walk around the house, going back to room, then walking around the house, and realized, "Where am I?"


Any type can pace while they're in a loop.

Any intuitive will occasionally lose track of what's going on around them.

Please, focus on cognitive functions rather than anecdotes. You're going to lead yourself astray with most any "Is this an XXXX thing?" kind of questions.

The Functions

More Function Posts

The Eight Functions (Typology 201)


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> Any type can pace while they're in a loop.
> 
> Any intuitive will occasionally lose track of what's going on around them.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your help. I really appreciated it.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Kerik_S said:


> P and J don't mean anything-- they decide the order of function and nothing else-- there are "orderly" Ps and "disorderly"Js.


P an J is most crucial in figuering out Type next to E and I of course


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

INFJennifer said:


> Well, that makes sense. I might really be an ENFP. Not all introverts are shy and not all extroverts are outgoing, after all.


Shy does not = introvert

It seems you have broke a sterotype someone has taught you. Congrats your on your way to better understanding Functions


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

myjazz said:


> P an J is most crucial in figuering out Type next to E and I of course


Yes, because all they do is determine function order.

Nothing else.

But the "something" they _do_ determine is incredibly important.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Kerik_S said:


> Yes, because all they do is determine function order.
> 
> Nothing else.
> 
> But the "something" they _do_ determine is incredibly important.


Nothing else? it seems your writing off P and J way to easly ,those 2 letters also is 1 of the 2 main systems (which is also broken down into 4 main systems)

For instance from the first thread I cam across by INFJennifer I knew within moments that she is not a iP (dom)


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

myjazz said:


> Nothing else? it seems your writing off P and J way to easly ,those 2 letters also is 1 of the 2 main systems (which is also broken down into 4 main systems)
> 
> For instance from the first thread I cam across by INFJennifer I knew within moments that she is not a iP (dom)


Pi just means "Ni or Si".

P, in my mind, is the equivalent to "N or S" in function labels.

XXXP in a _type label_ just means the strongest extroverted function is a P function.
XXXJ in a type label just means the strongest extroverted function is a J function.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Kerik_S said:


> Pi just means "Ni or Si".
> 
> P, in my mind, is the equivalent to "N or S" in function labels.
> 
> ...


Exactly what Pi grouping is Ni or Si, so by the P concept it was and is easly deductible that the type was incorrect. 
N/S and T/F is as I briefly mentioned the two main concepts within this system.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

myjazz said:


> INFJennifer said:
> 
> 
> > Well, that makes sense. I might really be an ENFP. Not all introverts are shy and not all extroverts are outgoing, after all.
> ...


Oh, thank you. 

I asked the ENFP in their forums, too. They gave me some questions and I answered them. Most think I'm Ne, and someone thinks I'm Ni because of the test question. They all think I'm Fe XD Though I do hold my values strongly, I feel symphathy for people even if I haven't experienced it before...?

No way I'm ENTP. No way.

Then I had a conversation with an ENFP about pizzas. Yay.

Look at the ENFP asking question thread if you want to see XD

Surely I'm not am ENTP.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

INFJennifer said:


> Oh, thank you.
> No way I'm ENTP. No way. Surely I'm not am ENTP.


 Your welcome and I hope you continue to learn and grow.
( I am hoping that the recent comments I am trying to start up will help you better understand all this mumbo jumbo a tad better....just to let ya' know....my way of doing things isnt always conventional but if someone decides to go along ill paint the picture for them)

I would disagree with ENTP as well


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

INFJennifer said:


> Oh, thank you.
> 
> I asked the ENFP in their forums, too. They gave me some questions and I answered them. Most think I'm Ne, and someone thinks I'm Ni because of the test question. They all think I'm Fe XD Though I do hold my values strongly, I feel symphathy for people even if I haven't experienced it before...?
> 
> ...


 If you have a lot of Ne and Fe, then is it possible that you're a Cognitive Functions ENTP (or ESFJ), but not a MyersBriggs ENTP?

The two don't overlap the way they're supposed to: I'm a MyersBriggs INTP (Introvert, iNtuitor, Thinker, Perceiver) + Cognitive Functions ENFP (≈Ne-Fi-Te-Si)


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

myjazz said:


> Exactly what Pi grouping is Ni or Si, so by the P concept it was and is easly deductible that the type was incorrect.
> N/S and T/F is as I briefly mentioned the two main concepts within this system.


However, many people take XXXJ to mean "orderly" or "decisive" and XXXP to mean "spontaneous" or "indecisive".

I find that false.


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

Kerik_S said:


> However, many people take XXXJ to mean "orderly" or "decisive" and XXXP to mean "spontaneous" or "indecisive".
> 
> I find that false.


 That's false for Cognitive Function xxxJ versus xxxP, but "orderly" versus "spontaneous" still works for MyersBriggs xxxJ versus xxxP


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Simpson17866 said:


> INFJennifer said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, thank you.
> ...


Ohhhh that's possible... But I'm not sure if I have Ti. But like you said, I'm an Introvert, iNtuitive, Feeler, and Judger (INFJ) in Myers-Briggs tests but maybe not in cognitive functions.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> myjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly what Pi grouping is Ni or Si, so by the P concept it was and is easly deductible that the type was incorrect.
> ...


LOL yes. I'm not spontaneous, but I am indecisive. I'm orderly, but I'm not decisive.


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

INFJennifer said:


> Ohhhh that's possible... But I'm not sure if I have Ti. But like you said, I'm an Introvert, iNtuitive, Feeler, and Judger (INFJ) in Myers-Briggs tests but maybe not in cognitive functions.


 To be fair, almost nobody's functions line up anything remotely like what they're "supposed to" according to Harold Grant.

When I say that I'm a MyersBriggs INTP + Functions ENFP, I don't mean that ENFP is a good match for my functions, just that it's the *least bad* match (and even that's a lot closer than what a lot of other people get).


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

myjazz said:


> Your welcome and I hope you continue to learn and grow.
> ( I am hoping that the recent comments I am trying to start up will help you better understand all this mumbo jumbo a tad better....just to let ya' know....my way of doing things isnt always conventional but if someone decides to go along ill paint the picture for them)
> 
> I would disagree with ENTP as well


Okay. Thank you.

Why do you disagree with ENTP? Is it because of the Ti? 

I disagree with ENTP, too, because I'm nowhere as half as funny as them. Hahaha. Don't worry, that's not the real reason.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Simpson17866 said:


> To be fair, almost nobody's functions line up anything remotely like what they're "supposed to" according to Harold Grant.
> 
> When I say that I'm a MyersBriggs INTP + Functions ENFP, I don't mean that ENFP is a good match for my functions, just that it's the *least bad* match (and even that's a lot closer than what a lot of other people get).


Yeah, true. How do you know the exact order of your cognitive functions, like on your signature?


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Simpson17866 said:


> That's false for Cognitive Function xxxJ versus xxxP, but "orderly" versus "spontaneous" still works for MyersBriggs xxxJ versus xxxP


MBTI dichotmies are awful


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

INFJennifer said:


> Yeah, true. How do you know the exact order of your cognitive functions, like on your signature?


 The go-to test most commonly recommended on this site is Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes



Kerik_S said:


> MBTI dichotmies are awful


 How is the Grant system better?

Everybody is somewhere on the spectrum from 100% self-contained to 100% outgoing
Everybody is somewhere on the spectrum from 100% abstracting to 100% practical
Everybody is somewhere on the spectrum from 100% insensitive to 100% sensitive
Everybody is somewhere on the spectrum from 100% disorganized to 100% organized

Whereas Grant Cognitive Function stacks just make 16 rigid boxes (if you pay attention to the present moment (Se), then you don't pay attention to your memories (Si) and vice versa) that the vast majority of people don't fit into.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Simpson17866 said:


> The go-to test most commonly recommended on this site is Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes
> 
> How is the Grant system better?
> 
> ...


Did the test. 

extraverted Sensing (Se) ****************** (18.4)
introverted Sensing (Si) ***************************** (29.4)
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************** (34.6)
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *************************************** (39.9)
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************** (20.7)
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************* (25.3)
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************************************** (38.6)
introverted Feeling (Fi) ********************************* (33.7)

So *Ni-Fe-Ne-Fi-Si-Ti-Te-Se*

Okay...


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

INFJennifer said:


> So *Ni-Fe-Ne-Fi-Si-Ti-Te-Se*
> 
> Okay...


 *Ni*-*Fe*-Ne-Fi-Si-*Ti*-Te-*Se*

INFJ on both scales. I have never seen a match this perfect between the two systems in my life.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Simpson17866 said:


> *Ni*-*Fe*-Ne-Fi-Si-*Ti*-Te-*Se*
> 
> INFJ on both scales. I have never seen a match this perfect between the two systems in my life.


Thanks for that. 

Hmm... 

...

...

:laughing:

:crazy:

Are INFJs melancholic? Because I once took a test from a real psychologist in my school, and that's what I get.


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

oh good lord, hands a cookie*


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Simpson17866 said:


> The go-to test most commonly recommended on this site is Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes
> 
> How is the Grant system better?
> 
> ...


You're assuming I know what Grant is.

I don't follow systems rigidly. I make adjustments.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

nichya said:


> oh good lord, hands a cookie*


Which flavor? Chocolate chips? I hope it's chocolate chips, because I love them.


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

INFJennifer said:


> Which flavor? Chocolate chips? I hope it's chocolate chips, because I love them.


Chocolate chip it is! (If it helps with all end of the world conspiracy that is - I mean besides the fact that it might be ending sooner than we thought thanks to climate change and extremists but just saying >.> )


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

nichya said:


> Chocolate chip it is! (If it helps with all end of the world conspiracy that is - I mean besides the fact that it might be ending sooner than we thought thanks to climate change and extremists but just saying >.> )


Yesss roud:


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

Kerik_S said:


> You're assuming I know what Grant is.
> 
> I don't follow systems rigidly. I make adjustments.


 Harold Grant. The guy who popularized the system of cognitive function stacks that everybody here goes by.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Simpson17866 said:


> Harold Grant. The guy who popularized the system of cognitive function stacks that everybody here goes by.


I don't use it to whatever tailoring he uses it to, probably.

I just think "This is the function, and here's what it does in this 'slot'."


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

Kerik_S said:


> I don't use it to whatever tailoring he uses it to, probably.
> 
> I just think "This is the function, and here's what it does in this 'slot'."


 And other people have come up with different ideas for what the different slots are that the functions can be lined up into.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Simpson17866 said:


> And other people have come up with different ideas for what the different slots are that the functions can be lined up into.


I find that there's a coherence in equating Dom-Aux-Ter-Inf with Lead-Creative-Mobilizing-Suggestive. Works for my intents and purposes.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Kerik_S said:


> However, many people take XXXJ to mean "orderly" or "decisive" and XXXP to mean "spontaneous" or "indecisive".
> 
> I find that false.


Yeah, just a few of the many stereotypes out there. As you are aware, that is not how XXXJ/P is defined


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

myjazz said:


> Kerik_S said:
> 
> 
> > However, many people take XXXJ to mean "orderly" or "decisive" and XXXP to mean "spontaneous" or "indecisive".
> ...


How do the fourth letter in XXXX determine the cognitive function?


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> How do the fourth letter in XXXX determine the cognitive function?


*E:*
= X*e*-Xi-Xe-Xi

*I:*
= X*i*-Xe-Xi-Xe

*N:*
=
EITHER: *N*x-Xx-Xx-*S*x
OR......: Xx-*N*x-*S*x-Xx

*S:*
=
EITHER: *S*x-Xx-Xx-*N*x
OR......: Xx-*S*x-*N*x-Xx

*F:*
=
EITHER: *F*x-Xx-Xx-*T*x
OR......: Xx-*F*x-*T*x-Xx

*T:*
=
EITHER: *T*x-Xx-Xx-*F*x
OR......: Xx-*T*x-*F*x-Xx

*J:
**EJ
=*
EITHER: *Fe*--*{*N/S*}**i--**{*S/N*}**e*--*Ti*
OR......: *Te*--*{*N/S*}**i--**{*S/N*}**e*--*Fi**

IJ
=*
EITHER: *{*N/S*}**i*--_*Fe*_--_*Ti*_--*{*S/N*}**e*
OR......: *{*N/S*}**i*--_*Te*_--*F*_*i*_--*{*S/N*}**e*

*P:*
*EP**
=*
EITHER: *Ne*--*{*F/T*}**i--**{*T/F*}**e*--*Si*
OR......: *Se*--*{*F/T*}**i--**{*T/F*}**e*--*Ni**

IP
=*
EITHER: *{*F/T*}**i*--_*Ne*_--_*Si*_--*{*T/F*}**e*
OR......: *{*F/T*}**i*--_*Se*_--*N*_*i*_--*{*T/F*}**e*


----------



## Simpson17866 (Dec 3, 2014)

INFJennifer said:


> How do the fourth letter in XXXX determine the cognitive function?


 Supposedly, the two dominant functions will be one introverted and one extraverted, one Perceiving (N or S) and one Judging (T or F), xxxJ means that the T/F is extraverted and the N/S is introverted, xxxP means that the N/S is extraverted while the T/F is introverted (xNFJ means that Ni and Fe are the two on top, xSFP means that Fi and Se are the two on top...).

It makes sense if you don't look at it more closely.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

myjazz said:


> Nothing else? it seems your writing off P and J way to easly ,those 2 letters also is 1 of the 2 main systems (which is also broken down into 4 main systefirst thread I cam across by INFJenniferms)
> 
> For instance from the *I knew within moments that she is not a iP (dom)*


You... remember my first thread when you first come across me...?

Which one is it again? :laughing:

According to @Kerik_S Pi is Ni and Si. For what reasons that I don't write like one? 

I read about Ji, too. What is Ji? Are they Fi and Ti? 

Reasons why: 

Pi is Ni and Si. They're both introverted functions, because of the 'i'. Ji has the letter 'i' in it. It must be an introverted function. Ni and Si are Pi, so there's no way they're also Ji. What else is an introverted function except for Ni and Si? Fi and Ti. Ji must be Fi and Ti.

Am I right?

(Note: You know why I write that 'reasons why' sections. I know you know.)


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

INFJennifer said:


> You... remember my first thread when you first come across me...?
> 
> Which one is it again? :laughing:
> 
> ...


Of course Iremember 

Yes what you wrote is nicely put.
I find it important when someone really wants to learn to go over the fundamental basics. Especially with so much stuff that goes around...
( I will be using INFJ as the base board since this is the type you believe or believed you use to be, and this way i will be able to explain my reasoning....Ni - Ti doesn't like to explain there actions but Fe will )

So by saying that you are a Dominate Perceiver ( like Ni ) is saying that primary function is percieving. The thing is with Dom function is they rarely take a break, at least completely. This happens whether or not you realize it.
For example when you shake someone's hand. What hand do you shake with? I am going to assume that you shake with your dominate hand correct.
Functions kinda work the same principle, for the most they are not a conscious or a deliberate choice.

With Ni as the Dom function this means that such person is olmost constantly taking in the environment with Se and bringing it inwards through Intuition. The thing is since this is a introverted function the person kinda keeps it to them selves but this is where the second Function comes in the Auxiliary Function. This is how MBTI determines the J or P because the formula is based on the Extraverted side. As I mentioned earlier in my introduction to what part of what I mam going over. Fe will be an inFj extraverted side, So this means that the previous taking in of information by Ni earlier will more than likely will brought out and discussed by Fe,,,which makes infJ and extraverted judgement function or Je for short even though the Dom function is an Pi. Which makes iNfjs primary a Perceiver outwardly we deal as an Je

It's not all about how you write as to why I express my opinion.
Oh yeah I was messing around one day awhile back and wrote a thread kinda explaining the "XXXX" read it if you like. Questions you may will Answer I will

http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/32142-warning-may-contain-spoilers.html


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

@myjazz How about Te vs Ti? (I wrote that reasons why section to ask you that XD)


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> You... remember my first thread when you first come across me...?
> 
> Which one is it again? :laughing:
> 
> ...


Your ability to figure out what Ji must mean in such a formulaic fashion might be indicative of Tertiary-Te.

My mind, with Tertiary-Ti would just be like "What are this?" and then brainfart, for instance.

I'm thinking ENFP might be more appropriate for you than INFP. INFPs have shitty Te like INFJs have shitty and _unconscious_ Te_._


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

@INFJennifer ,

I also knew why you wrote out the Ji Fi-Ti section even before you wrote the "(note)" at the end! ^_^

NiFe!


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> @INFJennifer ,
> 
> I also knew why you wrote out the Ji Fi-Ti section even before you wrote the "(note)" at the end! ^_^
> 
> NiFe!


Ohhh hahaha thanks!

When a real life Fe vs Fi situation comes up, I will instantly come and ask you again!

...That's the first exclamation mark you've wrote since the beginning of the post, I think.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

INFJennifer said:


> @myjazz How about Te vs Ti? (I wrote that reasons why section to ask you that XD)


Yes that will be the next part I was going to go over. I was more so going over Perceiving a tad more in depth before moved onto to Judgment part. i was also trying to hurry some and write what my Ti was allowing me to ( sometimes that is not a easy thing to do) 

I will write some about the J part in a little bit, for now i have to go again. Am I writing this in a style for you to follow properly?


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

myjazz said:


> INFJennifer said:
> 
> 
> > @myjazz How about Te vs Ti? (I wrote that reasons why section to ask you that XD)
> ...


Of course you are


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> Ohhh hahaha thanks!
> 
> When a real life Fe vs Fi situation comes up, I will instantly come and ask you again!
> 
> ...That's the first exclamation mark you've wrote since the beginning of the post, I think.


Fe would read "over" an exclamation mark.

You read "into" an exclamation mark.

In terms of Fi/Fe, Fi would notice the change in the relating aspect possibly indicated from a sudden exclamation mark.

Fe would vibe off of the emoted expression like saying "Yassss!" or "Hey! You cheered up!" or something like that.

.

You're clearly Fi/Te.

xxFP for certain.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

@Kerik_S 

Thank you for that. 

Hmm, so xxFP? The ENFPs said I have strong Ne, so maybe I AM ENFP?

I don't think I have that much Fi like ISFPs and INFPs do, but again, I don't really know.

(Do you like anime?)


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> @Kerik_S
> 
> Thank you for that.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I'm saying ENFP and you probably just don't understand Fi that much in a way that you can grasp in your mind.

If you have Te (and you do), you have to have Fi by default.

And if you have such strong Ne, the only way Fi, Te, and Ne can be in one type is INFP or ENFP.

And, I don't like anime as a hobby, but I love Japanese cultural undercurrents (especially the collectivism) and seeing how much more socially intelligent the characters are as opposed to American media in general.

That entire statement about anime is Fe, not Fi.

You may also find that you like Japanese culture even as a Fi-person, but you wouldn't think to phrase it that way right when someone asks you about anime in general.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

@Kerik_S I see. 

I'm not good at directions. I'm just remembering the place, and when overtime I spend a lot of time in the school, I connect the places, making one big map. 

I don't like remembering memories because it's so embarrassing that I want to stop thinking about it, so I tried to think/do something else.

I'm good at spelling because when I saw a misspelled word I know, though I don't know why, that its spelling is wrong.

I am not good at hiding expressions. I tried to hold my smiles, but I always failed...

Oh, can you give me example of Ti using the same 'finding Ji' scenario?


----------



## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

Kerik_S said:


> Your ability to figure out what Ji must mean in such a formulaic fashion might be indicative of Tertiary-Te.
> 
> My mind, with Tertiary-Ti would just be like "What are this?" and then brainfart, for instance.
> 
> I'm thinking ENFP might be more appropriate for you than INFP. INFPs have shitty Te like INFJs have shitty and _unconscious_ Te_._


Why isn't it Ti? She logically reasoned out for herself, by seeing the similar pattern in Pi, to come to the correct conclusion that Ji stands for Fi/Ti. And why would someone with Ti "brainfart" on seeing those terms? I've been trying to understand Te and Ti recently. If her way of understanding it is Te, how would Ti see the same situation?



Kerik_S said:


> Fe would read "over" an exclamation mark.
> 
> You read "into" an exclamation mark.
> 
> ...


Didn't she respond to you in an Fe way in her first sentence, though? 



INFJennifer said:


> Ohhh hahaha thanks!
> 
> When a real life Fe vs Fi situation comes up, I will instantly come and ask you again!
> 
> ...That's the first exclamation mark you've wrote since the beginning of the post, I think.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

@mistakenforstranger

Interesting... Now I'm from point zero. I'm almost certain that I might be ENFP, but then this information comes up. Every little details and insight affect the result. That's why I'm always worrying about little details. However, the little details always ended up not affecting the result.

So is this Ti or Te?

Do I seem more like a Ni or Ne user to you? I had a conversation with an ENFP yesterday, so maybe I'll post it here. The ENFP seemed to show lots of Ne. 

I'm in mobile, so I'll do it later.


----------



## Ominously (Dec 7, 2014)

Man... I need to make a forum like this. I'm kind of confused if I use Fe or Fi... :/


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

mistakenforstranger said:


> Why isn't it Ti? She logically reasoned out for herself, by seeing the similar pattern in Pi, to come to the correct conclusion that Ji stands for Fi/Ti. And why would someone with Ti "brainfart" on seeing those terms? I've been trying to understand Te and Ti recently. If her way of understanding it is Te, how would Ti see the same situation?


Te is algorithmic and methodical. Ti would need more concepts and not just the letters.

I might not "brainfart". I may have found a Ti way to wrap my head around it, but I'd probably need for information, or would have at least explained it different and not that methodically (this, begets this, therefore that, meaning whathaveyou).

Te is better at structuring the logic. Ti much more free-form.

　


mistakenforstranger said:


> Didn't she respond to you in an Fe way in her first sentence, though?


Conscious functions (Dom/Aux, and the Shadows of Tert/Inf) are indicated by direct statements that make a "call". "Oh, thanks!" doesn't make a call. It just responds, which could be explained by _unconscious Fe_ anyway. It doesn't make a rational "call".

The Fi "call" was actually analyzing the exclamation point.
A Fe "call" would be like, what I said the second time, which is actually "Hey, you've cheered up!"

My initial statement about "YASSS!" may actually be me conflating my reaction (I say "Yassss!") coming from _unconscious Fi_. (Yass is basically "I value thissssss!!!").

So, "Hey, you cheered up!" is more of a Fe "call" (a "read").


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

@Kerik_S Thank you for your response. Hmm... How about the other posts I made, about the directions and things?


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> @Kerik_S Thank you for your response. Hmm... How about the other posts I made, about the directions and things?


Remind me later.

The function that I use to type people is Ti, and it's Tertiary, so it often burns out.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Here's my conversation with an ENFP, as I promised. The question is, "What would you do if you're in an urban fantasy world, where destruction is happening, and the villain, one of your close friends, is controlling it all?"

The ENFP answered that he'll go back in time and take a Canadian with him to convince the villain's younger self. But I said something between the lines of "There is no Canada because it's a fantasy world". 

ENFP: "Well it being fantasy there has to be a forest of fantasy critters right?? Otherwise where else would ENFPs come from???? so I'd morsecode... now wait that's not fantasy enough... I'd use my powerful singing voice (it's in the family so I totally secretly have one) to call on all the forest critters by saying "forest critters ASSEMMMMMMMBLLLEE" *blows horn* and so answering what to us is called 'natures call'; the all appear and we have a flippin t -rex! , so we peacefully use our magical powers (and remember I have glue) that I can use to build a prison; we don't kill anyone cuz forest critters. THEN with the happy vibes that now spread across the land Canada is born, everything urbanises and I go can back in time and do it the first way ...so I think that's game, set, Uno!"

Me: "I understand all of it until the bolded part. How does a glue related to a prison? How do you build the prison...? Do you trap the T-Rex to the prison? However, what does T-Rex have to do with the happy vibes? Because you trap the T-Rex, you're happy? Then don't summon the T-Rex at the first place XD How does happy vibes related to the urban fantasy...? And wait, do you go back in time or go to the future? Because no way you go back in time. You have buildings and all these technology, but then suddenly it became a primordial world of forests and T-Rex?"


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

INFJennifer said:


> Me: "I understand all of it until the bolded part. How does a glue related to a prison? How do you build the prison...? Do you trap the T-Rex to the prison? However, what does T-Rex have to do with the happy vibes? Because you trap the T-Rex, you're happy? Then don't summon the T-Rex at the first place XD How does happy vibes related to the urban fantasy...? And wait, do you go back in time or go to the future? Because no way you go back in time. You have buildings and all these technology, but then suddenly it became a primordial world of forests and T-Rex?"


 Because that is a way that Ne is , as I was going over previously briefly. The Ne (which is a Pe function) is a Extraverted Percieveing Function it bounces of the outward environment, in its way add's onto which is kinda opposite of Ni kinda deduce's by taking the environment inward. Kinda like how I believed you to be miss typed I took all the information you was giving me ( info you was aware and was not aware of) brought it inwards through Ni ( my Pi) and swept away all the little thing and everything else that didn't fit and come to an conclusion or answer. 
This kinda works like so, mostly done without the Ni user knowledge especially the conclusion part , the information or environment gets sucked into the vortex of the subconscious ( and unconscious) gets sifted around deep in the Ni users mind. Sometimes the Ni user needs time to reflect before coming to an conclusion...after all it is a Perceiving function. Sometimes it is quick though. 
This is how a Ni dom user primarily comes to an answer or an conclusion, and also how Ni user's a lot of times dislike explaining how they come up with what they say or think because they either don't fully know how ( yet) or is hard to put into words...well for INTJ's it is easier to put Ni into words due to their Te for INFJ's this can be a task due to Ti ....which is why most INFJ's seem to have that counselor feel to them or eager to help in situations like that Fe is our way of expressing Ni better.
............ I know I know I am writing a lot of what I am saying usually explaining INFJ's function or NI, but as I mentioned I will be using INFJ as the back board or springboard 


You can tell this person who wrote about the T-Rex has Fi also and the person described seems very much so Ne - Fi.

The reason or the way you stumble some in what response you got about the Fantasy world kinda shows lack of Ne Dom ( which follows and goes with the rest of everything else that you have mentioned)

Sorry, I haven't got around to the J part. Ji and Je.... Te - Ti and Fi - Fe. I promise I haven't forgot and that I will go over the J part. If you had a touch of Ni-Ti or maybe even Ne-Ti ( ENTP ) you would see that I was bringing in the J functions before you double stated that you wanted to go over them. My intentions was to finish what I was writing I got a tad busy and wasn't able to properly add another Chapter.

As you can see though as I stated previously it is good to go over the basics and to sweep out the trash that was taught and whiteout the so many mistakes and stereotypes.
Also I wanted to go over just one of the two Main groupings within all of this the P or J.....mmm a PJ sandwich good. 
I chose to go over the P side some first and it was a good thing also because you still stumble a lot on the Perceiving aspect....that's okay though many people do.

I got all dispersed with writing this response, and by all the other comments and response's.


oh btw I thought the T-rex story was really good............... I will write up about the Judging ( J )
in the morning maybe late morning. This is where so many people trip up at, so many stereotypes and misinformation to break down that follows the J side of this.

Also it will help for me to better express a lot of this and to go over more, If you ask me questions or want to go over some of what I say.... Since you continue to wish to pursue the truth and to understand Cognitive Functions, Personality types or MBTI more I assume that you understand all that I wrote ( and all that wasnt wrote with letters)


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

myjazz said:


> You can tell this person who wrote about the T-Rex has Fi also and the person described seems very much so Ne - Fi.
> 
> The reason or the way you stumble some in what response you got about the Fantasy world kinda shows lack of Ne Dom ( which follows and goes with the rest of everything else that you have mentioned)
> 
> ...


Yes, that person is The ENFP (capital letter intended). 

Hmm... so are you suggesting that I'm INFP? 'Lack of Ne dom' - not ENTP or ENFP. But you said 'because that's the way Ne is' - INFP or INTP. Do INFPs get in touch with their feelings a lot? Because I don't think I do. Goodness, if someone asked me, "What is the real you?" I wouldn't even know what to answer. 

Thank you for the information. I will now add it to my own 'Book of Consideration'.

(A lot of people seems to think I'm INFJ. And when I'm so sure I'm an INFJ, there's always this person that will crumble that sureness. Same thing happens when I'm not sure if I'm an INFJ.)


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Some other information about me. 

1. I tend to worry about little things, even if they don't affect the result. Like when I have a test, I think got two answers wrong, and I'm freaking out so badly because I thought getting two answers wrong will affect the grade, but it turns out that it doesn't. The sad thing is, even though this happened to me many times, I still do it. 

2. One of my friends really wanted to join a dance group, but she thinks there isn't one. So I searched in the internet, and found out that there is a dance group. "There's a dance group!" I said. She asked me, "How do I join?" I replied, "I don't know, but we could ask the deans/teachers." She really hesitated, but I said to her that it's what she want, and so she must try. I said, "Let's go to the deans together." I didn't enter the deans' room together with her, but she managed to ask the dean. She came out happily, and told me that she could join the dance group if she passes the audition. She did. One of the best experiences in my life. To know that I contributed something to someone's life, even if they don't acknowledge it, is amazing. 

3. Once, I saw my classmate sitting alone. Now I'm usually too shy to approach them (don't think this is an E or I trait - everyone can be shy), but then I've experienced it before, so I approached her. This, I think, is Fi. But then, I talked to my friend about house competitions (like the ones in Harry Potter, yes!) and here's what I said. "You don't really get anything. If your house won, your house would probably get acknowledged in front of the school or get a trophy - and you won't bring it home. However, it's the togetherness that is the real reward - the fact that you did something, together, and win." 

4. I don't like remembering memories because it's so embarrassing that I want to stop thinking about it, so I tried to think/do something else. I'm good at spelling because when I saw a misspelled word, I know, though I don't know why, that its spelling is wrong. I am not good at hiding expressions. I tried to hold my smiles, but I always failed. I can cry easily if it's in front of my family, but not in front of others. However, I never once cried when watching sad movies. I do laugh and smile uncontrollably, though.

5. When someone eats something that I like, I seriously feel the taste in my tongue.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

INFJennifer said:


> Yes, that person is The ENFP (capital letter intended).
> 
> Hmm... so are you suggesting that I'm INFP? 'Lack of Ne dom' - not ENTP or ENFP. But you said 'because that's the way Ne is' - INFP or INTP. Do INFPs get in touch with their feelings a lot? Because I don't think I do. Goodness, if someone asked me, "What is the real you?" I wouldn't even know what to answer.
> 
> ...


Let me ask you this question.
Can you decipher or figure out why I agree that the story seems Ne - Fi written? no so much as to why I agree but more so can you see or pick out why so

Also if you are going about asking people in different sections "Do I seem xxxx" you can get a lot of different answer's because usually when this happens the people is saying "Oh I do the same thing so you must be my type. Also you have to realize there is a lot of miss typed people about, even if they sound like they know what they are talking about.
This is also why I am going over and explaining the functions ( without my own personal beliefs,ideas or discrimination ) I want to you to better understand the process, the Functions...all of it. I want you to be able to decide once you better understand all of this. of course I will add some type of low end metaphors to better explain my words at times or maybe a few other ways I formulate my words but even with that I don't sway from the truth of the matter.

You seem smart and bright and who knows maybe after going over the J part a little later in the morning ... ...whoah it is morning I need to get an hour or 2 of sleep in..... things will click a little better.

Writing what briefly I have is olmost exhausting from my other comments


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

myjazz said:


> Let me ask you this question.
> 
> This is also why I am going over and explaining the functions ( without my own personal beliefs,ideas or discrimination ) I want to you to better understand the process, the Functions...all of it. I want you to be able to decide once you better understand all of this. of course I will add some type of low end metaphors to better explain my words at times or maybe a few other ways I formulate my words but even with that *I don't sway from the truth of the matter*.


I want to try to recognize the cognitive functions. The bolded part = Ni. Right?

I don't know what time is it in your place, but get some sleep, too, okay?


----------



## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

INFJennifer said:


> ENFP: "Well it being fantasy there has to be a forest of fantasy critters right?? Otherwise where else would ENFPs come from???? so I'd morsecode... now wait that's not fantasy enough... I'd use my powerful singing voice (it's in the family so I totally secretly have one) to call on all the forest critters by saying "forest critters ASSEMMMMMMMBLLLEE" *blows horn* and so answering what to us is called 'natures call'; the all appear and we have a flippin t -rex! , so we peacefully use our magical powers (and remember I have glue) that I can use to build a prison; we don't kill anyone cuz forest critters. THEN with the happy vibes that now spread across the land Canada is born, everything urbanises and I go can back in time and do it the first way ...so I think that's game, set, Uno!"


Is this what Ne looks like?? That made me dizzy reading it. 




INFJennifer said:


> Me: "I understand all of it until the bolded part. How does a glue related to a prison? How do you build the prison...? Do you trap the T-Rex to the prison? However, what does T-Rex have to do with the happy vibes? Because you trap the T-Rex, you're happy? Then don't summon the T-Rex at the first place XD How does happy vibes related to the urban fantasy...? And wait, do you go back in time or go to the future? Because no way you go back in time. You have buildings and all these technology, but then suddenly it became a primordial world of forests and T-Rex?"


I'd say this is mostly Ti. You're trying to understand the internal logical order to his thoughts and world, which is obviously missing. It seems you want it to be consistent. The way you determined Ji = Fi/Ti based on the premise that Pi = Ni/Si is an example of deductive reasoning, which is usually associated with Ti, depending on which source you read. Granted, you also could have understood it using an intuitive process by noticing the similar patterns. 



myjazz said:


> Because that is a way that Ne is , as I was going over previously briefly. The Ne (which is a Pe function) is a Extraverted Percieveing Function it bounces of the outward environment, in its way add's onto which is kinda opposite of Ni kinda deduce's by taking the environment inward. Kinda like how I believed you to be miss typed I took all the information you was giving me ( info you was aware and was not aware of) brought it inwards through Ni ( my Pi) and swept away all the little thing and everything else that didn't fit and come to an conclusion or answer.


I think this is also true of Ti, in the sense of deducting an answer. It seems Ni and Ti can be viewed similarly, but Ni has an imaginative component to it. It's more ethereal and spontaneous. I'd say Ni seeks Meaning, while Ti seeks Truth. For INFJs, Ni insights will eventually form into Ti principles (maybe even an entire system), which are then shared with the rest of humanity (Fe). Viktor Frankl, who wrote "Man's Search for Meaning," is a great example of an INFJ who shows this progression in his work.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

INFJennifer said:


> I want to try to recognize the cognitive functions. The bolded part = Ni. Right?
> 
> I don't know what time is it in your place, but get some sleep, too, okay?


 hehe , I meant try to see if you can figure out why the T-Rex story seems Ne - Fi. But only if want to of course 

Since you tried to pick out some Ni in what I posted. The part where I include that I will add some low end metaphors is my own indication that no matter how much I may try to express what I want to say Ni will eventually throw in a metaphor. The part about low end is just way of saying that I won't go full board metaphor or a heavy metaphor instead a light one.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

mistakenforstranger said:


> Is this what Ne looks like?? That made me dizzy reading it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually Ti and Fi is similar 


I will use one of INFJennifers notions, The part I bolded can also be very much Te


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

@myjazz 

Ah, okay... I hope you can post the other functions too 

Seriously, though. Ni Ne Fe Fi Ti Te Se Si...

I wish I could understand it too if given examples as I understand the theory. But it'll wait for later.


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

I was about to write it up some in just a moment, I did mention in my reply to mistakenforastranger that Ti and Fi is similar and at times can be very similar, was also a sorts of a prequel


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> @myjazz
> 
> Ah, okay... I hope you can post the other functions too
> 
> ...


I've scored Ne Ni Fe Fi Te Ti Se Si before.

Those tests aren't really that great.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

@INFJennifer









View attachment 506370


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay I have put this off long enough I suppose. I will try to be a tad brief on this as well

Te - Ti 

Ti - will take information or ideas and kinda make it there own since it is a Subjective function. 

Te - will keep to keep to or build onto the ideas or information since it is a Objective function.

For example one of the ways Ti will explain something will have more of a personal touch to it, by breaking something down and rewording it differently and at time use certain words for a different meaning.
One of the ways Te will explain something won't have a personal touch to it will be more coherent with what is present, sometimes by using charts or graphs.

I will include Fe and Fi in a bit and go over Te and Ti some more..something seems missing that ties it together.



as usual your more than welcome to ask any questions


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

myjazz said:


> Okay I have put this off long enough I suppose. I will try to be a tad brief on this as well
> 
> Te - Ti
> 
> ...


Something is missing... but I'll wait for the next one anyway. 

How does an inferior function work?


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Other things about me... 

1. My mom and dad actually lies sometimes to look good in front of our family. Like when I went to an important exam when I was supposed to be at church. My mom and dad told us, if someone in church asks us where I was, then we should say, "Going to the doctor." No one asks me, though, but someone did ask my sisters. My middle sister said, "Going to the doctor," and also my father, but my youngest sister (and you know how kids are), told the truth. My mom and dad were so angry at her at home. I thought, "Why would you get angry at someone when they are doing the right thing?" We are taught to tell the truth, and my parents always said that they really hate if someone's lying, but they did it themselves, even encouraging it, in some way. My mom is an ESFJ, so is my youngest sister. 

2. You know the way humans are. They usually forget the many good things others do, but remember a bad thing someone did only once. I admit I did it occasionally. That's the case with my father (and my mother). Yes, my ISxP sister doesn't often brush her teeth, tidy her bedroom, and wash her face, but she did try to improve. I mean, I saw her starting to do these things. Yet my father gets angry at her because she 'always' didn't do the things. He's not angry at me, but watching my sister almost crying, makes me want to cry/angry too. I don't ask my father, but my mother said, "It doesn't matter if you wash your face once or twice. You have to do it consistently." I'm aware of that, but I really, really wish they could see the progress, not only the result. 

3. I tried to encourage myself that I can do it, even if it really seems that I won't. It surprises me, though, how much encouraging self has helped me even to the impossible of times.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> Other things about me...
> 
> 1. My mom and dad actually lies sometimes to look good in front of our family. Like when I went to an important exam when I was supposed to be at church. My mom and dad told us, if someone in church asks us where I was, then we should say, "Going to the doctor." No one asks me, though, but someone did ask my sisters. My middle sister said, "Going to the doctor," and also my father, but my youngest sister (and you know how kids are), told the truth. My mom and dad were so angry at her at home. I thought, "Why would you get angry at someone when they are doing the right thing?" We are taught to tell the truth, and my parents always said that they really hate if someone's lying, but they did it themselves, even encouraging it, in some way. My mom is an ESFJ, so is my youngest sister.
> 
> ...


Fi-auxiliary, pretty much all of it.

ENFP


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

@Kerik_S

LOLOLOL Just found that 'pretty much all of it' funny... This is how I imagine it...

***

In the desert...

Kerik the rock: ...ENFP.

Me, as the wind: *blows* _Type me... type me..._

Kerik the rock: ...ENFP. 

Me, as the wind: *blows stronger* _How about this...?_

Kerik the rock: ...ENFP. 

Me, as the wind: *blows even stronger* _I'm this, this, this, and this..._

Kerik the rock: ...ENFP, ENFP, ENFP. Pretty much all of it. 

And the wind passes, leaving Kerik the Great Rock behind. 

***

Won't really 'pass', but you know what I mean. 

I'm sure number one is Fi. But, someone said that number two is Ti. Hmm.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> @_Kerik_S_
> 
> LOLOLOL Just found that 'pretty much all of it' funny...
> 
> I'm sure number one is Fi. But, someone said that number two is Ti. Hmm.


"focusing on progress rather than the result" is more N over S


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> "focusing on progress rather than the result" is more N over S


 @Kerik_S Ah, I see. Umm... I edited my post. Look at it...:laughing:

Oh, and why Fi-aux rather than Fi-dom, tertiary Fi, or inferior Fi?


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

myjazz said:


> A brainfart it was ....responded to fast I guess an let Ti out to much.
> 
> Reason, because I keep in my own thought process a differentiation between Perceiving Function by not calling it perception. Even though it is a perception. just like in the book Psychological Type's where Jung mentioned " which is by no means a mere perception, or awareness, but an active, creative process that builds into the object just as much as it takes out"
> 
> ...


here is an example of Ti in progress ( using one of my comment's in a different thread as an example)

If you notice that there was a rational reason behind not only why I reworded perception in my previous comment as to which this comment came to be ( sorry didn't repost that) but also in this part I quoted.
So by that we are aware that Judging Function was used. Now if we look at how the J function is being used we will notice which one it is. 
For starters the main reason for this was because when I read perception my thought process took in the information and broke down what was being asked. ( Subjective ) And by doing so changed the main subject wording "perception" but not changed the main subject just went deeper into the information and idea. ( Subjective )

Okay now I have concluded that so far what I have stated seems very much Subjective in nature.
So now the next question is this Ti or Fi ?


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

INFJennifer said:


> @_Kerik_S_ Ah, I see. Umm... I edited my post. Look at it...:laughing:
> 
> Oh, and why Fi-aux rather than Fi-dom, tertiary Fi, or inferior Fi?


If I were to "unpack" my intuition (take the intuitive hunch/prediction and turn it into words):

Aux function (and Tertiary) _create_ information, and you were describing information you created (a value call on what was and wasn't helpful to do or say, or what wasn't right or wrong to do or say).

You weren't describing the processes that got you there (Dominant and Inferior) when you were discussing decisions. And when you did describe the decision-making process, it was very much rooted in "could and couldn't" (and other conditional statements) as well as "this is so, and this isn't" (and other absolute empirical statements, but moreso conditionals that empiricals).

The "input" was described like an intuitive process (conditionals, patterns), and the "output" (creation) was described in terms of "right/wrong", which is what F and T do. You focused on people-based right and wrongs (helpful/harmful), which is F.

Then, I ask myself:

Is the strongest input process (Dominant), which is conditionals (N), more a matter of patterns she's looking at occurring externally (Ne) or hunches being generating completely from within (Ni)?

I arrive at Ne = Dominant.

Is the strongest output process (Auxiliary), which is helpful/harmful (F), more a matter of consensus based on what she see's other people doing (Fe) or value statements being generated completely from within (Fi).

I arrive at Fi = Auxiliary.

　
You don't need to go the harder route of figuring out your Tertiary and Inferior. Knowing your Dominant and Auxiliary automatically tells you your Ter/Inf:

_If Dom = Fe, then Inf = Ti
If Dom = Fi, then Inf = Te
If Dom = Ne, then Inf = Si
If Dom = Ni, then Inf = Se
If Dom = Se, then Inf = Ni
If Dom = Si, then Inf = Ne
If Dom = Te, then Inf = Fi
If Dom = Ti, then Inf = Fe
_
Replace "Dom" above with "Aux"
as well as "Inf" above with "Tert", and you get the formula for "If Aux = [?], then Ter = [?]"


----------



## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

INFJennifer said:


> How does an inferior function work?


 Sorry,I just realized you asked this.

In a nutshell Inferior is the complete opposite of the Dom Function, if someone is a Dom J then they will have an Inferior J and the E/I will be switched. Without the Inferior the Dominate wouldn't function properly, because the Inferior helps feed the Dominate.

When you understand the relationship the Dom/Inf has it is easy to see and notice.
For instance lets say Dominate Thinker is in a debate with someone a easy way for the other person to trip up this Dom T is to go after the person's Feeling side. Instead of the person's strong point


----------



## mistakenforstranger (Nov 11, 2012)

Kerik_S said:


> Te is algorithmic and methodical. Ti would need more concepts and not just the letters.
> 
> I might not "brainfart". I may have found a Ti way to wrap my head around it, but I'd probably need for information, or would have at least explained it different and not that methodically (this, begets this, therefore that, meaning whathaveyou).
> 
> Te is better at structuring the logic. Ti much more free-form.


Can you elaborate on how Ti is "free-form"? I'm trying to get a better grasp on this particular function. According to Lenore Thomson's book, it doesn't really have much to do with "logic," but more a sense of "fit," and how the variables fit within the system, as determined by the subject. It's about getting a sense of how the system works, on your own terms. She didn't say that explicitly, but that's what I gathered. 

I still don't see how you couldn't use that kind of logic using Ti, though, in her example. Isn't Te more concerned with how the variables can be used to a certain end, or am I conflating that with Ni?

　


Kerik_S said:


> Conscious functions (Dom/Aux, and the Shadows of Tert/Inf) are indicated by direct statements that make a "call". "Oh, thanks!" doesn't make a call. It just responds, which could be explained by _unconscious Fe_ anyway. It doesn't make a rational "call".
> 
> The Fi "call" was actually analyzing the exclamation point.
> A Fe "call" would be like, what I said the second time, which is actually "Hey, you've cheered up!"
> ...


Ok, I see what you mean. Fe is concerned with responding and/or considering the other person's state of being, at the loss of one's self, which it almost feels that way at times. I don't quite understand "unconscious Fe" and "unconscious Fi" and how that manifests, but you don't have to explain.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

mistakenforstranger said:


> Can you elaborate on how Ti is "free-form"? I'm trying to get a better grasp on this particular function. According to Lenore Thomson's book, it doesn't really have much to do with "logic," but more a sense of "fit," and how the variables fit within the system, as determined by the subject. It's about getting a sense of how the system works, on your own terms. She didn't say that explicitly, but that's what I gathered.


You're still using logic, you're just not focusing formally from premise to conclusion. Ti doesn't mind re-working a premise entirely, or jumping from premise to premise, or only looking at the conclusions, etc....

　


mistakenforstranger said:


> I still don't see how you couldn't use that kind of logic using Ti, though, in her example. Isn't Te more concerned with how the variables can be used to a certain end, or am I conflating that with Ni?


The variables were used to the end of figuring out what Ji meant. It was very "start to finish" in a way that Ti isn't that great at.


----------



## Ominously (Dec 7, 2014)

Could I also join in? I need help figuring out if I'm an INFJ or INFP also.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

How about this, then? 

One day, I was so stressed because of a test. Suddenly, I feel so light-headed, then I can't breathe, like I'm having a heart attack and am going to die. Two of my classmates, Z and K, helped me to feel better. Afterwards, A and G waited for me and asked if I'm okay. 

The next day, a person from a different class, V, told me, "I heard about yesterday. Are you okay?" I said yes. But I'm really confused. How did she know that I'm not okay yesterday? A is in this class too. So I thought that maybe A told V. However, for some reason, I felt that it's the wrong answer. It just didn't feel right. 

Then at noon, a person from another different class, M, told me, "I heard about yesterday. Are you okay?" I said yes. And I'm also confused why M knows too. I thought, "Does everyone know?" But then it doesn't seem like that, as the other classmates didn't comment anything on it. 

Then I realized why it is so. 

I know that V is in Choir C. And I remember, one day, I saw M bringing a bag with the writing 'Choir C', showing that she's in it too. I remembered the three of them going in the same direction, to the music building. Z has also the Choir C bag. I concluded that they're in the same choir before. 

And so I know why. Z told V and M in choir practice. So I asked M, "Do you know that from choir?" And she answered, "Yes." 

What cognitive functions do you see here? Please ignore my username, or the opinion of yours that I'm (insert type). Why do I write this? Because... I know what Ni is in theory, but not in real life examples. I see... Si? I don't know...

:laughing:


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Ominously said:


> Could I also join in? I need help figuring out if I'm an INFJ or INFP also.


Yes. Yes you can.

Other facts about me...

1. I have a classmate that is... different from the others. She seem to make rude remarks about everything in front of everyone. I don't know if she intentionally or unintentionally did that. However, when she talked to me, even though there's something I didn't agree with, I just smile and don't say it. I didn't show anything that shows I disagree or agree. 

2. LOL, this is bad, but you know what happens when parents (or people) get mad. They didn't think straight at all. Like when my dad is angry and said, "I paid for that violin lesson for $300!" And I'll be like, "It's $260..." (Bad, I know...) And he gets sooo angry. Now I didn't do that anymore, because I hold back what I want to say, even though I want to pinpoint so many wrong things that my parents say. (Mom: "You always forget about..." Me: "No, not always. I did ___ yesterday, and the day before...") This is not good, I know. 

3. I certainly did not work well under pressure.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

@INFJennifer

No one's going to be able to type you this way.

You need to let _them_ ask _you_ questions, not just take any piece of information about yourself and post it no matter what.

Typing is a process. All I can do with any of this is tell you what functions you seem to be using either as you were typing out the message, how you were describing things, or what you were doing in the anecdotes themselves.

I suggest taking the approach, when someone has invested energy into typing you, to ask them if they have any questionnaires.


----------



## INFJenNiFer (Feb 20, 2016)

Kerik_S said:


> @INFJennifer
> 
> No one's going to be able to type you this way.
> 
> ...


Okay! I'll just take the sticky questionnaire and create another thread.


----------

