# Is this possible?



## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Is there such a thing as a 4 who isn't concerned with being unique? I fit almost everything else about type 4. If my basic desire could be anything, it would probably be self understanding, and my basic fear would be shame (being flawed/defective). But for the most part I don't try to stand out or be different from others--I would be too self-conscious and embarrassed. Although I do value the ways in which my personality is unique, it's just the standing out or looking weird I don't like.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

It's not a drive to be unique so much as a drive to be you. Since there's only one of you, well, that's how you're unique. Most fours don't stand on hilltops screaming, ” Look at me and my uniqueness!” It usually comes out in more subtle ways.

What you say sounds kind of like a social four issue.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

brainheart said:


> It's not a drive to be unique so much as a drive to be you. Since there's only one of you, well, that's how you're unique. Most fours don't stand on hilltops screaming, ” Look at me and my uniqueness!” It usually comes out in more subtle ways.
> 
> *What you say sounds kind of like a social four issue.*


That could be. I have a very strong 4w3 heart fix and it manifests in the same way. I'm also So/Sx and INFP.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Personally, I think the motivations are the primary [if not only] thing you should look at when considering a type. Enneagrams are centered around motivations and fears. Everything else is, to some extent, fluff. 

It's all right to feel in line with four behavior and not be a four. It's also okay to not match certain descriptions of a type you do share core motivations with. The Enneagram is not about boxing you in over certain behaviors. 

If you don't feel that you share the motivations of a four, step back and see what other types you do connect with on that basic level. Nobody will think less of you and it won't diminish your four-ish characteristics. In fact, it might even show you your habits in a new light.

What motivations/fears do you most closely align with?


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

JuliaRhys said:


> Personally, I think the motivations are the primary [if not only] thing you should look at when considering a type. Enneagrams are centered around motivations and fears. Everything else is, to some extent, fluff.
> 
> It's all right to feel in line with four behavior and not be a four. It's also okay to not match certain descriptions of a type you do share core motivations with. The Enneagram is not about boxing you in over certain behaviors.
> 
> ...


My motivations and fears do seem to be 4-ish, but minus the stereotypical desire to be unique. I've been obsessed with self understanding for the past several months and have been constantly analyzing my type and going back and forth. Another thing is that I feel I have to maintain a certain inner image (I have to be a certain way _for myself_). I feel ashamed whenever I say or do something even slightly out of character, or that doesn't accurately express what I felt and wanted to express (I'm not sure if that's unusual or if everyone is like that).


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

RevlisZero said:


> My motivations and fears do seem to be 4-ish, but minus the stereotypical desire to be unique. I've been obsessed with self understanding for the past several months and have been constantly analyzing my type and going back and forth. Another thing is that I feel I have to maintain a certain inner image (I have to be a certain way _for myself_). I feel ashamed whenever I say or do something even slightly out of character, or that doesn't accurately express what I felt and wanted to express (I'm not sure if that's unusual or if everyone is like that).


You should check this out.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

brainheart said:


> You should check this out.


Thanks. This fits pretty well, especially this part:



> Average Fours spend a great deal of their time fantasizing. Fours connect very strongly to the feelings that arise in their daydreams. They enjoy creating an environment that is unique to them. This niche is a sanctuary that generates and maintains deep personal feelings in which they soak for long periods. They often listen to certain types of music because they help put them in a certain mood. Unfortunately, average Fours often spend too much time daydreaming. Fours believe that the answer to their search for self and meaning will be found in their deep and passionate feelings.


Actually, I've been thinking about declaring my type as 9/4 (both 9 and 4), since I feel the combination describes me much better. I'm passive and agreeable and tend to see only good in others, like a 9, but I have the emotional and identity issues of the 4.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

RevlisZero said:


> Thanks. This fits pretty well, especially this part:
> 
> Actually, I've been thinking about declaring my type as 9/4 (both 9 and 4), since I feel the combination describes me much better. I'm passive and agreeable and tend to see only good in others, like a 9, but I have the emotional and identity issues of the 4.


I know I've said this in the past, but I could see you being a 9 with a 946 tritype. (Six because you ask other people their opinion about you a lot.) I emphasize _could_ because there is no way I can know for sure.

But social fours seem to be kind of different than the other types of fours. I wouldn't totally rule it out.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

brainheart said:


> I know I've said this in the past, but I could see you being a 9 with a 946 tritype. (Six because you ask other people their opinion about you a lot.) I emphasize _could_ because there is no way I can know for sure.
> 
> But social fours seem to be kind of different than the other types of fours. I wouldn't totally rule it out.


Yeah, you may be right. I had that as my tritype for a little while until I changed my type to 5 again. I could see myself as either 946/469 or 954/459. 

For my main type, I could make either 9 or 4 work, but both would have to be stretched a bit to fit. A pretty important aspect of type 9, from what I've read, is the tendency to forget their own agenda when they're with others--who they see as more interesting than themselves, and that's where the self-forgetting comes from. I don't relate to that part at all (and actually I don't relate _strongly _to most of what's in the type 9 descriptions), which is why I think the 9/4 combination would work better than just choosing one type.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

RevlisZero said:


> Yeah, you may be right. I had that as my tritype for a little while until I changed my type to 5 again. I could see myself as either 946/469 or 954/459.
> 
> For my main type, I could make either 9 or 4 work, but both would have to be stretched a bit to fit. A pretty important aspect of type 9, from what I've read, is the tendency to forget their own agenda when they're with others--who they see as more interesting than themselves, and that's where the self-forgetting comes from. *I don't relate to that part at all (and actually I don't relate strongly to much of anything in the type 9 descriptions), which is why I think the 9/4 combination would work better than just choosing one type.*


The fact that you don't relate to much of anything in the nine descriptions... well, some nines feel like that. However, wanting to create your own enneagram construct to fit yourself in because you can't fit in anything else... well, that kind of sounds like a desire to be unique to me.

There have been times I've thought maybe I wasn't a four because I didn't relate to the other fours as much as I thought I should, so then I considered nine and thought the same thing, then considered five and went through the same process, and then came back to four because... well, it fits the best, and deep down I know it's the right type. Fours want to find someone who understands, so when they feel misunderstood among fours who- if anyone- should understand, it can be unsettling. But that's just how it is when you're a four. I don't think you'll ever find a four who feels they totally fit in any description or totally fits in anywhere. 

Part of this has to do with having a frustration object relation, I suspect. I know I kept searching for a place in the enneagram, thinking that when I found it everything would be great, but then it wasn't, so it was time to look for something else. I'm learning that this really is the biggest deal for me, in all honesty. There isn't anything that's perfect or the ultimate ideal; instead of longing for it, it's best to actually work with what you have and gain true satisfaction by actually accomplishing things that matter. So instead of wondering if maybe I'm 'meant' to be a painter or a musician ad infinitum, I should just work on one and experience my life (I've been painting and its been great).


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

brainheart said:


> The fact that you don't relate to much of anything in the nine descriptions... well, some nines feel like that. However, wanting to create your own enneagram construct to fit yourself in because you can't fit in anything else... well, that kind of sounds like a desire to be unique to me.
> 
> There have been times I've thought maybe I wasn't a four because I didn't relate to the other fours as much as I thought I should, so then I considered nine and thought the same thing, then considered five and went through the same process, and then came back to four because... well, it fits the best, and deep down I know it's the right type. Fours want to find someone who understands, so when they feel misunderstood among fours who- if anyone- should understand, it can be unsettling. But that's just how it is when you're a four. I don't think you'll ever find a four who feels they totally fit in any description or totally fits in anywhere.
> 
> Part of this has to do with having a frustration object relation, I suspect. I know I kept searching for a place in the enneagram, thinking that when I found it everything would be great, but then it wasn't, so it was time to look for something else. I'm learning that this really is the biggest deal for me, in all honesty. There isn't anything that's perfect or the ultimate ideal; instead of longing for it, it's best to actually work with what you have and gain true satisfaction by actually accomplishing things that matter. So instead of wondering if maybe I'm 'meant' to be a painter or a musician ad infinitum, I should just work on one and experience my life (I've been painting and its been great).


The frustration makes sense to me. Throughout this whole type finding process, my focus has been on what's missing and how I'm different from others of my type. I've been constantly analyzing and reanalyzing in order to find something that doesn't fit, so that I can confirm my doubts about my type. I do this every time. I don't know, maybe I just get bored of my type after a while or something...Or maybe it's just the constant doubting and never quite feeling as though I fit into any of the types.

So maybe I really am a 4...But if that's the case, I guess I'm feeling a bit disappointed that I'm not the exception to the system. It would have been cool to be unique and have two types. :tongue:

Then again...If I just go with one type, I'll probably end up going back and forth again because I keep finding things that don't fit and changing my mind. If I go with both types, maybe I'll finally be satisfied...Or maybe not, I don't know...


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

RevlisZero said:


> My motivations and fears do seem to be 4-ish, but minus the stereotypical desire to be unique. I've been obsessed with self understanding for the past several months and have been constantly analyzing my type and going back and forth.


Yeah, but... If this is a new obsession, that doesn't make you a 4. It makes you interested in something new. 4s have a lifelong obsession with their fixations, as do all types. You're going to have to look back a little further, like years.
EDIT: And tbh, it's not like other types can't be interested in self-discovery and self-understanding...



RevlisZero said:


> Throughout this whole type finding process, my focus has been on what's missing and how I'm different from others of my type. I've been constantly analyzing and reanalyzing in order to find something that doesn't fit, so that I can confirm my doubts about my type. I do this every time.
> [...]
> Then again...If I just go with one type, I'll probably end up going back and forth again because I keep finding things that don't fit and changing my mind. If I go with both types, maybe I'll finally be satisfied...Or maybe not, I don't know...


Classic 6 ping-ponging? :wink:
E6 has difficulty deciding what MBTI type they are?


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## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

RevlisZero said:


> My motivations and fears do seem to be 4-ish,* but minus the stereotypical* desire to be unique. I've been obsessed with self understanding for the past several months and have been constantly analyzing my type and going back and forth. Another thing is that I feel I have to maintain a certain inner image (I have to be a certain way _for myself_). I feel ashamed whenever I say or do something even slightly out of character, or that doesn't accurately express what I felt and wanted to express (I'm not sure if that's unusual or if everyone is like that).


() hmmm...


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Paradigm said:


> Yeah, but... If this is a new obsession, that doesn't make you a 4. It makes you interested in something new. 4s have a lifelong obsession with their fixations, as do all types. You're going to have to look back a little further, like years.
> EDIT: And tbh, it's not like other types can't be interested in self-discovery and self-understanding...


It's not entirely new, this is just the first time it's become blatantly obvious (just to put things into perspective, I'm only 18, so I don't have that many years to look back on). Finding myself and improving myself have always been extremely important to me (though other types can be interested in that as well, I know). Something a bit more specific though is that my most important goal in life is self-actualization, which is a bit more of a 4 thing, I think.



Paradigm said:


> Classic 6 ping-ponging? :wink:
> E6 has difficulty deciding what MBTI type they are?


I've tried 6 before. The doubt/uncertainty part fit perfectly, but overall the type didn't really work for me.


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

RevlisZero said:


> I've tried 6 before. The doubt/uncertainty part fit perfectly, but overall the type didn't really work for me.


But the doubt/uncertainty part _is_ the essential feature of a 6.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Owfin said:


> But the doubt/uncertainty part _is_ the essential feature of a 6.


I know, but other types can be doubting and uncertain as well. Types 4 and 9 are especially prone to doubt.


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## ImminentThunder (May 15, 2011)

RevlisZero said:


> Is there such a thing as a 4 who isn't concerned with being unique? *I fit almost everything else about type 4.* If my basic desire could be anything, it would probably be self understanding, and my basic fear would be shame (being flawed/defective). But for the most part I don't try to stand out or be different from others--I would be too self-conscious and embarrassed. Although I do value the ways in which my personality is unique, it's just the standing out or looking weird I don't like.


I'm not good at typing people, but I'm curious...What are some of the 4 characteristics that _do_ resonate with you?  

Fear of being flawed/defective is a 4 characteristic, but also resonates with the image triad in general. I think. 

I rather enjoy being weird as it differentiates me from the norm, but I don't enjoy being embarrassed in front of others, either. I would be self-conscious as well. I don't stand out in the sense of deliberately drawing attention to myself - for me individuality is more subtle. Hmm I'm not sure if I'm making any sense...it's late here...



RevlisZero said:


> I know, but other types can be doubting and uncertain as well. Types 4 and 9 are especially prone to doubt.


 I agree with this.

also, I love your kitty avatar!  /sorry off topic


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## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

Remember, a large part of being a four is your emotions, I've met a 4 in real life and he is very prone to emotional outbursts, jealousy was a _huge_ problem for him, it sometimes made him uncomfortable to be around. 4s emotions have a tendency to isolate them, so keep that in mind before commit to a type.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

ImminentThunder said:


> I'm not good at typing people, but I'm curious...What are some of the 4 characteristics that _do_ resonate with you?
> 
> Fear of being flawed/defective is a 4 characteristic, but also resonates with the image triad in general. I think.
> 
> I rather enjoy being weird as it differentiates me from the norm, but I don't enjoy being embarrassed in front of others, either. I would be self-conscious as well. I don't stand out in the sense of deliberately drawing attention to myself - for me individuality is more subtle. Hmm I'm not sure if I'm making any sense...it's late here...


I relate to feeling that there's something fundamentally wrong with me, that I'm missing something other people have. I remember consciously thinking about this back when I was a little kid, even. It's not some trait I can just point out and say "this is what I'm missing", it's more subtle than that, more like some subjective quality or something...I relate to the envy too. I didn't think I related to this at first, because I don't really get _jealous _of other people (which would imply resentment), but I suppose I do often long for what others have. I see other people around me socializing and making friends with ease, and I feel they must have something I'm missing, because that's something I've always struggled with, being the quiet person that I am. 

Another thing I can see in myself is the drama. And this is also something I didn't recognize at first, since it's subtle. My drama is internal, not external. I spend a lot of time daydreaming and making up intricate stories in my head with fictional settings and characters, and the main purpose, other than entertainment I suppose, is to create intense emotions. My stories tend to be really dark and emo because I try to make them as dramatic and intense as possible. 

And then there's the identity part, and needing to be true to myself, which I think I've already explained somewhat in previous posts. I feel that I need to find some essential piece of myself from within in before I can be my true self and feel fulfilled. 

The main parts I don't relate to are feeling elite and refined, and being outwardly dramatic (which is probably lessened by a strong 5 wing). 



ImminentThunder said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> also, I love your kitty avatar!  /sorry off topic


Thanks! roud:


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

MrShatter said:


> Remember, a large part of being a four is your emotions, I've met a 4 in real life and he is very prone to emotional outbursts, jealousy was a _huge_ problem for him, it sometimes made him uncomfortable to be around. 4s emotions have a tendency to isolate them, so keep that in mind before commit to a type.


This is something I don't really relate to. I'm not prone to emotional outbursts or jealously/resentment. Then again, there are important aspects I don't relate to in _all _the types, which is why I still don't know my type.


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