# Quitting a job when you have a 6 figure debt (INFP)



## Pamegranate

My INFP SO keeps talking about quitting his job. He is a designer and has worked at 2 firms now and hated them both. He's been getting angrier and angrier about his situation and says he's going to just quit. 

I'm fine with him doing whatever he wants but I think it's important to have something lined up, especially since he has a large debt from getting a masters degree. He doesn't want to talk about looking for another job; all he cares about is what he feels like right now. He wants to quit and figure it out later. 

Is there a way to talk sense into an INFP? I'm really worried that if he does quit his job he will just sit around playing video games because that's all he _feels _like doing. 

What would you do if you saw your significant other in this situation? I'm a busy person and he expects me to just sit and listen to his problems. It's really getting on my nerves (I'm INTJ).


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## VoxPopuli

Pamegranate said:


> Is there a way to talk sense into an INFP?


No.


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## niss

If he doesn't do some maturing, and fast, there is a bankruptcy in his future. Especially if his student loans were federally subsidized. The feds always get their money. If you are married, they'll attach your income, too.

This isn't a type issue. You both need to have a come to Jesus meeting about the reality of the magnitude of this debt and how draconian a lifestyle you will have to live, if you are to have any hope of paying off this debt in a reasonable period of time. Realistically, if your household income is in the low six figures, it'll take about five years to pay this off, assuming a low interest rate.


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## Hurricane Matthew

Six-figure debt from going to school?? WTFFFFF. If I had an SO with that much debt who wanted to quit work, I'd dump them since it'd be obvious they aren't responsible with money.


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## sweetraglansweater

Pamegranate said:


> My INFP SO keeps talking about quitting his job. He is a designer and has worked at 2 firms now and hated them both. He's been getting angrier and angrier about his situation and says he's going to just quit.
> 
> I'm fine with him doing whatever he wants but I think it's important to have something lined up, especially since he has a large debt from getting a masters degree. He doesn't want to talk about looking for another job; all he cares about is what he feels like right now. He wants to quit and figure it out later.
> 
> Is there a way to talk sense into an INFP? I'm really worried that if he does quit his job he will just sit around playing video games because that's all he _feels _like doing.
> 
> What would you do if you saw your significant other in this situation? I'm a busy person and he expects me to just sit and listen to his problems. It's really getting on my nerves (I'm INTJ).


Appeal to his principles.

He borrowed money for his degree. He is obligated to pay that money back. It was his decision to engage in a Mephistophelian quasi-faustian contract for a piece of paper and he needs to suck it up and work. 

Give him a hard, no-nonsense, no-sympathy talk. Then, using the power of your NT mind help him brainstorm possible outcomes and solutions. Give him fact based answers or data to come to a decision or plan of attack. Having him talk aloud his plan of attack, give him some time to come to terms with it (a few hours or days) and then hold him to executing plan of attack.

INFP whining is whining but it's also our way of trying to sort through ideas and get more. If you have ideas about alternate ways of making money or lining up a new (satisfying job) or sticking out current job until he can find something else this would be the area where your INTJ skills as a partner will help your little INFP move forward.

If he doesn't want to talk about finding real and tangible solutions and brainstorming possible ventures to solve his problem (and he only wants to bitch and moan) that's when you know you have a rotten INFP and you need to throw them out along with the recycling.


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## sweetraglansweater

also, please take my advice:

don't marry him

do not NOT ever legally attach yourself to such debt, especially since he is not capable of motivating himself. The fact that he's had two firm jobs and quit them --or is about to quit them-- smacks of ingratitude, especially in this day and age when most young people would beg to have a steady paying career job. 

Don't ever put up with a person who allows life to get the better of them like that. It's a waste of their time and yours. Ask yourself; do you really want to be around such an ungrateful person?


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## g_w

VoxPopuli said:


> No.


All I can say is that sometimes the INFP and INTJ connect instantly, and sometimes they get along about as well as matter and antimatter. In which case there is a certain aptness to your avatar.

The more so when something causes the INFP to go into whatever depressive spiral they go into, where they feel their very identity is dependent on busily working on the edges of their emotional wound with dental floss crafted from barbed wire. They don't want to be helped until they have extracted the maximum insight out of their -- oh, look, a squirrel. SQUEEE!! :shocked: :bored: :exterminate: :dry:

TO @Pamegranate:

This may hurt (I don't know how close the two of you are), but it might actually become necessary to row for shore by yourself lest his sinking like the Titanic pull you under. The best you can do is not lecture, above all on't attempt to enforce uniformity or say "that's just the way THINGS ARE" but encourage him to find active, creative solutions and PUT THEM INTO PRACTICE. And encourage him in these things.

Best wishes -- an unmotivated INFP is like a stubborn mule, whose hooves are planted, but has the power of a two-ton tractor slowly propelling them in REVERSE. Not easy to shift are they. /Yoda>


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## g_w

sweetraglansweater said:


> Appeal to his principles.
> 
> He borrowed money for his degree. He is obligated to pay that money back. It was his decision to engage in a Mephistophelian quasi-faustian contract for a piece of paper and he needs to suck it up and work.
> 
> Give him a hard, no-nonsense, no-sympathy talk. Then, using the power of your NT mind help him brainstorm possible outcomes and solutions. Give him fact based answers or data to come to a decision or plan of attack. Having him talk aloud his plan of attack, give him some time to come to terms with it (a few hours or days) and then hold him to executing plan of attack.
> 
> INFP whining is whining but it's also our way of trying to sort through ideas and get more. If you have ideas about alternate ways of making money or lining up a new (satisfying job) or sticking out current job until he can find something else this would be the area where your INTJ skills as a partner will help your little INFP move forward.
> 
> If he doesn't want to talk about finding real and tangible solutions and brainstorming possible ventures to solve his problem (and he only wants to bitch and moan) that's when you know you have a rotten INFP and you need to throw them out along with the recycling.


 Good Lord, @sweetraglansweater, that was harsh, and *I'm* a hard-bitten INTJ. (But you're right, all the same.)


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## sweetraglansweater

g_w said:


> Good Lord, @sweetraglansweater, that was harsh, and *I'm* a hard-bitten INTJ. (But you're right, all the same.)


I know myself and the extent to which my whining will destroy me if I allow it.


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## AriesLilith

What @sweetraglansweater said. Complementing what she said, you don't want to stick with someonw who can't handle the responsibilities of life in a mature manner. No that people are not allowed to complain or whine but taking drastic measures and simply screw it all? Nope, specially with such a huge debt.

Many people has to deal with hard times and hating their jobs. If he can afford to whine then at least try to plan for change, not many people has that luxury to simply quit their work because they don't like corporate settings and BS.

Maybe let him cool off a bit then talk sense into him again.


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## strawberryLola

I had student loan debt that I had to put up with a toxic abusive work environment just to pay off my loans.

How I motivated myself to pay off a lump sum in a short amount of time is by learning how to constructively budget everything, and putting everything into perspective as a momentary p.i.t.a. to deal with.

You can throw in scenarios for him. Sounds like he could be operating in his shadow functions not thinking about his long-term goals right now, because he is stressed.

Maybe the best way he can manage through this is by helping him to rationalize the fact that:
-Design jobs can be shitty, but there are far worse jobs out there.
-Suffering is only temporary
-He needs skills and work experience to build upon his resume in order to do his own thing
-Rephrase the fact that people have to start somewhere

You want to have a casual pep talk conversation about this, otherwise, coming off as his parent may make him resent you. Coming from someone who's also NP, I really really extremely resent when someone comes off as though they are the expert of my life. 

A helpful approach is to listen, then kindly confront his contradictions about his priorities and his in-the-moment frustrations, and reframe his long-term, big picture, end-goal.


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## Witch of Oreo

@Pamegranate
Does he have another - any - source of income to cover the debt? Any plans of covering it?
If he has it together, or maybe someone to provide support for at least some time, or whatever - let him do his thing, unless leeching off others forever is what he intends to do.
If he doesn't - paint a beautiful picture of being drown in debt to him, if he doesn't quite realize what it means.
In all honesty, I also quit job with a 6-figure debt (4- when converted to USD), but that's because I have a whole year to keep up with payments with unemployment benefits (which is literally the same amount of money I used to receive at last work, sans working 14 hours a day). My plans to find a work within three months kind of failed, but I still have some time to go and can settle for even retail unless I get anything better. However, I also live with mother, which also makes things easier.
If it wasn't for this, I wouldn't even think of quitting.
Other than that... @sweetraglansweater nailed it.


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## angelfish

@Pamegranate,

Haha, well, if _my_ SO were in that situation, I might be considering running for the hills, because I prefer a significant other who is _more_ stable than me. But I'm an e6w7 INFP. I'm guessing that as an INTJ 5w6 you could better tolerate a less stable significant other, provided they are not completely ungrounded. As for me as an INFP and work, I get sulky and restless quickly without a job. I learned that after taking some time off after college... it was great until everyone went back to school/work following the summer and I was alone and bored.

Anyway, INFPs can be very stubborn and certainly illogical, but we're not _irrational_. Judgment is our dominant function and we are fluent with assigning value to things in life and proceeding accordingly. I'm sure there's an enormous part of your INFP that knows and understands that not having a job while in significant debt isn't the preferred option. The problem for a lot of us is that when we get very emotionally distressed, that distress can drown out our practical ability to cope with a difficult situation. I wonder if he is feeling both short- and long-term stress, since it sounds like his career so far is not as fulfilling as I'm sure he originally hoped.

My suggestion would be trying to sit him down somewhere private and cozy, maybe having some food together, getting under a blanket together, or doing something else low-key and comfortable, and offering to help him research some different job opportunities (assuming you're willing and able). Maybe you could even suggest a few for him, or bookmark the websites for a few applications. My SO has helped me like this in the past and it has been enormously useful to me, since I always struggle with initiating practical things. 

My guess is your SO would _prefer_ to proceed sensibly, but is just having a hard time reconciling all the energy and persistence it takes to proceed with that with his present emotional overload.


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## strawberryLola

I feel for you OP. The economic climate is tough out there. Really tough to find a job or career where worker's rights are respected. I hope he hangs in there.

At the same time, you don't want to feel like his parent.

And, it's unfortunate (I'm guessing you live in the U.S.) student loan debt is starting to look like 2008's predatorial home loans.

I received my student loans faster than driving through a drive-through. When requested to speak to a loan officer prior to pulling out money for school, there were no reps, no one I could personally talk to before signing off on 8% loan compounded daily, which I was not told upfront, but to quickly sign and get out. I had no other way to pay for classes, and the financial aid office isn't very helpful or informative.

I know medical doctors who are also super depressed about their $200K+ loan debts. It's really terrible and unfortunate.

Re-iterate the fact he at least still has income coming in and make the best of it. Because, it's not easy right now. And especially with the elections coming up... sometimes, better to grin and bear it.


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## VoxPopuli

strawberryLola said:


> And, it's unfortunate (I'm guessing you live in the U.S.) student loan debt is starting to look like 2008's predatorial home loans.


If people are borrowing more money than they can pay back then that's their own fault. I have little sympathy for people who make poor decisions and then expect others to bail them out for it.


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## niss

VoxPopuli said:


> If people are borrowing more money than they can pay back then that's their own fault. I have little sympathy for people who make poor decisions and then expect others to bail them out for it.


Generally, I'd agree with you, but some of these situations can be different than what we've come to expect from lenders. Sometimes it is predatory, in nature, and not at all a transparent and open transaction.


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## VoxPopuli

niss said:


> Generally, I'd agree with you, but some of these situations can be different than what we've come to expect from lenders. Sometimes it is predatory, in nature, and not at all a transparent and open transaction.


There are a whole host of laws requiring full disclosure of loan terms. If someone is actually lied to then a crime has been committed and yes, they are a victim. If they were too lazy or too ignorant to read and understand what they were signing then that's on them. The latter is what is ACTUALLY the issue. To get $100,000 into debt for a Bachelor's Degree is completely absurd, especially if it's not an Engineering degree.


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## Pamegranate

sweetraglansweater said:


> He borrowed money for his degree. He is obligated to pay that money back. It was his decision to engage in a Mephistophelian quasi-faustian contract for a piece of paper and he needs to suck it up and work.





Matvey said:


> Six-figure debt from going to school?? WTFFFFF. If I had an SO with that much debt who wanted to quit work, I'd dump them since it'd be obvious they aren't responsible with money.





VoxPopuli said:


> If people are borrowing more money than they can pay back then that's their own fault. I have little sympathy for people who make poor decisions and then expect others to bail them out for it.





VoxPopuli said:


> There are a whole host of laws requiring full disclosure of loan terms. If someone is actually lied to then a crime has been committed and yes, they are a victim. If they were too lazy or too ignorant to read and understand what they were signing then that's on them. The latter is what is ACTUALLY the issue. To get $100,000 into debt for a Bachelor's Degree is completely absurd, especially if it's not an Engineering degree.



This debt is from a Masters degree in architecture. The law requires anyone who wants to be an architect to get a masters degree and then complete about 3 years of practice under a licensed architect. This is despite the fact that architects learn nothing particularly important during the masters program that wouldn't be learned during an internship. So it's not that he wanted a piece of paper--he just wanted to be an architect.

I don't think most 17 year olds can even comprehend what it means to be in 6 figures of debt or what a 7% interest rate compounded daily means. The economic environment/architect job market can change significantly in 7 years too, so the salaries of architects you see when you go in may not be what they are when you get out. 

So I don't blame him for his situation, but he does have to deal with it. Having school debt is not irresponsible imo, but running away from it would be. 



sweetraglansweater said:


> also, please take my advice:
> 
> don't marry him
> 
> do not NOT ever legally attach yourself to such debt, especially since he is not capable of motivating himself. The fact that he's had two firm jobs and quit them --or is about to quit them-- smacks of ingratitude, especially in this day and age when most young people would beg to have a steady paying career job.
> 
> Don't ever put up with a person who allows life to get the better of them like that. It's a waste of their time and yours. Ask yourself; do you really want to be around such an ungrateful person?


Gratefulness is not important to me, but you are right--marrying seems like a bad idea lol.


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## VoxPopuli

Pamegranate said:


> I don't think most 17 year olds can even comprehend what it means to be in 6 figures of debt or what a 7% interest rate compounded daily means.


That's BS, not only can a 17 year old understand that, but if they can't they probably shouldn't be going to college to being with. I did significant research into the average salaries earned by graduates of the school I applied to, the average salaries of different majors I was considering and the debt I would incur going to each college. I then put these into a spreadsheet along with standards rates of inflation and loan rates and used it to calculate the return on investment of each possible major and school I was considering. I then choose my school and major based on the results of that spreadsheet. As a result I was able to pay my student loans off in 18 months.


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## Pamegranate

niss said:


> This isn't a type issue. You both need to have a come to Jesus meeting about the reality of the magnitude of this debt and how draconian a lifestyle you will have to live, if you are to have any hope of paying off this debt in a reasonable period of time. Realistically, if your household income is in the low six figures, it'll take about five years to pay this off, assuming a low interest rate.





g_w said:


> This may hurt (I don't know how close the two of you are), but it might actually become necessary to row for shore by yourself lest his sinking like the Titanic pull you under. The best you can do is not lecture, above all on't attempt to enforce uniformity or say "that's just the way THINGS ARE" but encourage him to find active, creative solutions and PUT THEM INTO PRACTICE. And encourage him in these things.
> 
> Best wishes -- an unmotivated INFP is like a stubborn mule, whose hooves are planted, but has the power of a two-ton tractor slowly propelling them in REVERSE. Not easy to shift are they. /Yoda>





slowcoffee said:


> Does he have another - any - source of income to cover the debt? Any plans of covering it?
> If he has it together, or maybe someone to provide support for at least some time, or whatever - let him do his thing, unless leeching off others forever is what he intends to do.
> If he doesn't - paint a beautiful picture of being drown in debt to him, if he doesn't quite realize what it means.
> In all honesty, I also quit job with a 6-figure debt (4- when converted to USD), but that's because I have a whole year to keep up with payments with unemployment benefits (which is literally the same amount of money I used to receive at last work, sans working 14 hours a day). My plans to find a work within three months kind of failed, but I still have some time to go and can settle for even retail unless I get anything better. However, I also live with mother, which also makes things easier.
> If it wasn't for this, I wouldn't even think of quitting.





angelfish said:


> My suggestion would be trying to sit him down somewhere private and cozy, maybe having some food together, getting under a blanket together, or doing something else low-key and comfortable, and offering to help him research some different job opportunities (assuming you're willing and able). Maybe you could even suggest a few for him, or bookmark the websites for a few applications. My SO has helped me like this in the past and it has been enormously useful to me, since I always struggle with initiating practical things.


So we had a fairly intense talk yesterday. He is going to start a blog of sorts and work on it before he goes to work. 

I told him I am fine with him doing whatever he wants, he just has to pull his weight as far as expenses go and there's no way I could pay his debt anyway. 

Now I am just trying to enjoy this break in complaining for as long as it lasts. I'm afraid we'll be back at the point we were at yesterday in a month or so though. We've been together for years though not married and so we are very attached. I told him that if he stopped pulling he weight and just sat around playing video games I would have to leave him. I would just resent him if he did that.


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## Pamegranate

Emphasis on _most_ 17 year olds. Especially INFP 17 yro's that are not going to make their decisions based on data in a spreadsheet. Obviously some people will make their decisions the way you did _and_ not change their minds later but based on what I've seen, many people change the course of their careers at some point in their lives. 

My SO had an idea of what it would cost and what he would make, but what didn't sink in for him was the fact that he was cashing in his flexibility as well. He really believed architecture was the field he wanted to be in. The dream they were selling in school doesn't match up with the reality of what it is like to work in architecture though.


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## LibertyPrime

O__O holy shit... how does one end up with a 6 figure debt from a master's degree?.... WTF... that is very fucked up. :/



Pamegranate said:


> Emphasis on _most_ 17 year olds. Especially INFP 17 yro's that are not going to make their decisions based on data in a spreadsheet. Obviously some people will make their decisions the way you did _and_ not change their minds later but based on what I've seen, many people change the course of their careers at some point in their lives.
> 
> My SO had an idea of what it would cost and what he would make, but what didn't sink in for him was the fact that he was cashing in his flexibility as well. He really believed architecture was the field he wanted to be in. The dream they were selling in school doesn't match up with the reality of what it is like to work in architecture though.


I wish someone would explain it to young ppl that its very rare to find a career/job which one can enjoy and even then other ppl turn it into hell. This makes it a bad idea to "follow my passion" if the person is not ready to suffer to a certain degree.

He needs to look at this pragmatically :S which is difficult for an INFP. Idk knock some sense into him, he has a mountain of debt to pay off. Quitting is a bad idea, s*omeone needs to help him organize this into a workable situation where he can see a light at the end of the tunnel, then slowly work towards it.*


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## VoxPopuli

LibertyPrime said:


> I wish someone would explain it to young ppl that its very rare to find a career/job which one can enjoy and even then other ppl turn it into hell. This makes it a bad idea to "follow my passion" if the person is not ready to suffer to a certain degree.


There seems to be a huge lack of understanding on this in our current youth. I guess it's probably part of the whole, "everyone's a winner" BS they teach now that causes people to understand that in the real world most people don't end up at the top of the pyramid. Even if you are destined to be doing what you always dreamed of you won't do it the day you graduate college. It takes years proving yourself at a company before they start to let you do the big and important projects most people dream of. You don't graduate college and suddenly get put in charge of designing an 80 story skyscraper (or whatever else an architect might dream of).


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## LibertyPrime

VoxPopuli said:


> There seems to be a huge lack of understanding on this in our current youth. I guess it's probably part of the whole, "everyone's a winner" BS they teach now that causes people to understand that in the real world most people don't end up at the top of the pyramid. Even if you are destined to be doing what you always dreamed of you won't do it the day you graduate college. It takes years proving yourself at a company before they start to let you do the big and important projects most people dream of. You don't graduate college and suddenly get put in charge of designing an 80 story skyscraper (or whatever else an architect might dream of).


Someone needs to help him structure this in his head, so he can see what is going on and how he can fix it and it has to be done in a way which doesn't turn OP into his mother.

Imo the next job will be equally bad and he runs the risk of giving up and just doing "fuck all". So :/ idk.. suck it up and one step at a time work towards the exit. No pain no gain.

<_< ah thought you were OP sry.


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## Hurricane Matthew

Pamegranate said:


> So I don't blame him for his situation, but he does have to deal with it. Having school debt is not irresponsible imo, but running away from it would be.


Having school debt isn't irresponsible, no, but having a _six-figure_ debt definitely is.


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## Pamegranate

VoxPopuli said:


> Even if you are destined to be doing what you always dreamed of you won't do it the day you graduate college. It takes years proving yourself at a company before they start to let you do the big and important projects most people dream of. You don't graduate college and suddenly get put in charge of designing an 80 story skyscraper (or whatever else an architect might dream of).





LibertyPrime said:


> Imo the next job will be equally bad and he runs the risk of giving up and just doing "fuck all". So :/ idk.. suck it up and one step at a time work towards the exit. No pain no gain.


Yeah, he really just needs to get out I think. He's already doing some of the best projects at the best firm in the region (he's really good at what he does). It's just not as magical as school and people make it out to be. 




Matvey said:


> Having school debt isn't irresponsible, no, but having a _six-figure_ debt definitely is.


I'm curious how you think anyone becomes architects, doctors, lawyers, etc (in the US). Because it's not just independently wealthy people deciding to go into those fields.


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## niss

VoxPopuli said:


> There are a whole host of laws requiring full disclosure of loan terms. If someone is actually lied to then a crime has been committed and yes, they are a victim. If they were too lazy or too ignorant to read and understand what they were signing then that's on them. The latter is what is ACTUALLY the issue. To get $100,000 into debt for a Bachelor's Degree is completely absurd, especially if it's not an Engineering degree.


Of course, there is disclosure, but that is not the same as transparency. 

I once saw things on this issue as black and white as you seem to view them. Time and experience has tempered my straight forward thinking on it. Culture, desperation, language, and education can all impact our abilities to make a sound decision. When dealing with something as large as student debt, the consequences can be staggering. 

I don't rush to judgment. I want to know why they made the decision they did. It made sense to them, at that time.


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## SirEarl

Pamegranate said:


> What would you do if you saw your significant other in this situation? I'm a busy person and he expects me to just sit and listen to his problems. It's really getting on my nerves (I'm INTJ).


Divorce or exit the relation-ship...


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## strawberryLola

Yeah...hard to judge a person and probably best not to in these scenarios...

I have a cousin who's admitted into optometry school, always her dream to be an optometrist. She pulls out over $150,000 in student loans for school, and her professors are giving her a hard time about finishing, not allowing her to pass onto the next semester to take courses she needs. She studies hard, works hard, dedicates her time. She knows exactly what to expect in the field she's getting into, and she's still given so much difficulties without the degree she's pulling a shitload of money to pay for. This is social inequity.

Even if people grin and bear it, I've never seen the state of the economy this bad. And, if people want to deny and pretend like everything's aye okay, and that talks about the "economy" is negative, then they can bury their heads into the sand.

The fact of the matter is, it's smarter to hold onto what you can right now. They didn't sugarcoat 2008 as a "recession" for nothing. It's technically second wave depression. 

So sad to think that we've progressed in modern times, technologically, but on a sociological scale, not so much, and people still like to deny the fact corruption still exists. Just like how cocaine was often sold in Coca Cola cans centuries ago to get people addicted.

Times have changed. People's ignorance haven't. Still need to adapt. At the same time, these predatory ponzi schemes like Fanni Mae and racists such as Koch brothers cracking down on education and making it hard for people to move up the ladder is ridiculous.

Sorry for venting, but doesn't help to solve the issue by blaming the person but not the problem. 6 figure debt for a Master's degree is a bit much, but considering how a lot of students are getting into debt because there are no jobs out there so the other option is schooling that still doesn't guarantee a career is absurd. It's a lose-lose proposition.

People need to wake up and vote for a new system, because this trickle down economy's jacked up.


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## VoxPopuli

strawberryLola said:


> Even if people grin and bear it, I've never seen the state of the economy this bad. And, if people want to deny and pretend like everything's aye okay, and that talks about the "economy" is negative, then they can bury their heads into the sand.
> 
> The fact of the matter is, it's smarter to hold onto what you can right now. They didn't sugarcoat 2008 as a "recession" for nothing. It's technically second wave depression.


The state of the Economy in 2016 is better than at any point since 2007. The economy has been improving for for years. A person who is currently getting college debt or just started to pay it off would have began accumulating it after 2008 which means they should have known full well the Economy was not doing great. But yes, you're right, the Economy will be "bad" for the next ~15 years due to the retirement of the baby bloomers and a female fertility rate below replacement. In fact the Economy will likely NEVER be what it was for most of US History because we won't have the very high birth rates and immigration rates that characterized US growth for 200 years. Not understanding such basic concepts is the fault of the individual borrowing the money, not the fault of anyone else. $100,000 is almost 2 years income for the average US worker and taking that much debt without doing the basic research to figure out how it might affect you in the future requires an almost unparalleled level of stupidity.



strawberryLola said:


> So sad to think that we've progressed in modern times, technologically, but on a sociological scale, not so much, and people still like to deny the fact corruption still exists. Just like how cocaine was often sold in Coca Cola cans centuries ago to get people addicted.
> 
> Times have changed. People's ignorance haven't. Still need to adapt. At the same time, these predatory ponzi schemes like Fanni Mae and racists such as Koch brothers cracking down on education and making it hard for people to move up the ladder is ridiculous.


LOL at this conspiracy theory BS. The only problem here is that the Government has subsidized loans and possibly implied it will bail people out. The Government need to make clear that under absolutely no circumstance will it ever forgive a single penny of student loan debt. Maybe then the banks will stop giving out money and people will stop borrowing money. If you prefer a more interventionist approach then the US should just outright ban student loans above a certain amount depending on the major being perused.



strawberryLola said:


> It's a lose-lose proposition.


Only if you take this sort of fatalistic approach and assume there is noting you can do to succeed. The Economy is tough to our eyes, but much better than most other countries and we live in a time far better than any other time in History. If your not mentally or physically handicapped then it really isn't that hard to find a job. Will it be the job you dreamed of when you were a kid? Probably not. Welcome to the real world.


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## Sava Saevus

To the OP: Drop him.

Or at the very least, do not get married to him. No matter how emotions of love and togetherness may rear its head.

Also, does anyone know of things such as pell grants, scholarships, internships?

Or join the military for 4 years, get out and there is a G.I. Bill earned by serving the country.


----------



## TechFreak

Pamegranate said:


> Emphasis on _most_ 17 year olds. Especially INFP 17 yro's that are not going to make their decisions based on data in a spreadsheet. Obviously some people will make their decisions the way you did _and_ not change their minds later but based on what I've seen, many people change the course of their careers at some point in their lives.
> 
> My SO had an idea of what it would cost and what he would make, but what didn't sink in for him was the fact that he was cashing in his flexibility as well. He really believed architecture was the field he wanted to be in. The dream they were selling in school doesn't match up with the reality of what it is like to work in architecture though.


That's the long game and life isn't a fairy tale as it takes hard graft to get where you need to go.

At least he has some form of idea and I can understand why his frustrated - work appears to become stagnant or he feels undervalued at work. Former = stick with it otherwise well whose going to pay the debt. Latter = He has to push, work harder and you guys need to have some unwind time like a picnic or something every other weekend.

I personally wouldn't advocate a break up as the potential ramifications... well best not go there.


----------



## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar

Pamegranate said:


> My INFP SO keeps talking about quitting his job. He is a designer and has worked at 2 firms now and hated them both. He's been getting angrier and angrier about his situation and says he's going to just quit.
> 
> I'm fine with him doing whatever he wants but I think it's important to have something lined up, especially since he has a large debt from getting a masters degree. He doesn't want to talk about looking for another job; all he cares about is what he feels like right now. He wants to quit and figure it out later.
> 
> Is there a way to talk sense into an INFP? I'm really worried that if he does quit his job he will just sit around playing video games because that's all he _feels _like doing.
> 
> What would you do if you saw your significant other in this situation? I'm a busy person and he expects me to just sit and listen to his problems. It's really getting on my nerves (I'm INTJ).


Maybe try to buy him some gift to motivate him =) ? Since you live in USA, I recommend an AR-15 and maybe a few 1000s rounds of ammo? If he's a gamer, he should love it =) . Also recommend him getting into some sort of a gun club. It will motivate him to keep earning money.


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## Flamme et Citron

Six-figure debt isn't going away anytime soon, could take over a decade depending on diligence. Most people aren't very good spenders and only end up paying it off in their 40s. So he may as well work at a place he enjoys, it's going to be a long haul. This is only a problem if he expects you to support him financially while he doesn't work, obviously that can't go. But beyond that let him do what he needs to do.


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## Veggie

Don't be afraid to make creative solutions genuinely creative. If he has a plan and funds to blow off some steam then maybe let him for a _little_ while. So long as he doesn't go further in debt I don't see the harm in that. We only get this one life (well, so far as we know) and there isn't someone who presents us with a trophy at the end if we play the system supposedly intelligently, but unhappily. The "system" is constantly changing too, so making moves moment to moment isn't the worst decision from a survival standpoint either. We can predict the consequences of our moves, but ultimately life has a way of throwing a wrench into the works anyway (and new inventions change the scene, bubbles pop, companies go under, people die, etc).

I find it interesting that you say you've invested all this time and energy into the relationship, and most of the advice you're receiving is to drop him like it's hot. So basically - you don't have to stick with something just because you've invested a lot of time and energy into it. Careers can be the same.

Also, keep in mind the ramifications of being miserable day to day. If he becomes depressed, or if the stress makes him sick (doctor bills!) your partnership could be in jeopardy as well. 

Maybe he gets into something like bartending for a while. I know a lot of people in those sorts of professions who actually make more money than their white collar counterparts, and in a laid back atmosphere. Scheduling can get tricky, especially if you work a 9-5, but that's where you employ creativity. If you care about the partnership then I would imagine that these creative solutions would involve the two of you, and not just him. It might be more difficult to get back into architecture eventually, depending on the length of time away, but if he's already working on top projects and for a big firm then maybe it's time for him to cut his losses. 

Of course, then it would be difficult to make a career change involving additional schooling if that were an aim if he's already in so much debt from this originally. (Speaking of school - any chance he has an interest in teaching and could find something architecture related? Sometimes even considering those options for the future can re-inspire motivation if he feels like he's hit a dead end).

If he just needs a break - how competitive is the field in your area? I've personally left probably 90% of my jobs without having something lined up, but it was always a calculated risk with a fall back plan that worked out. If he's very good at what he does and has an impressive resume I'd say the odds are probably in his favor to find something, especially if he can find a way to spin why he left in interviews into a positive. Don't be afraid to redefine "best" too. Maybe for him, best would be a smaller firm and maybe even a small pay cut if the culture better fit his personality. He could always potentially go back, too, so long as he doesn't burn bridges. Or maybe the two of you plan a vacation to take place in between jobs if he does go ahead and make the decision to have something else lined up. 

A strong connection is hard to find imo, and the adult dating scene can be draining (plus, you tend to run into the same types of people more or less time and again ime)... so those are things to keep in mind too.


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## Veggie

Pamegranate said:


> What would you do if you saw your significant other in this situation? I'm a busy person and he expects me to just sit and listen to his problems. It's really getting on my nerves (I'm INTJ).


And adding to my previous post - I would listen. Dead ends can feel like a terminal diagnosis - like death. Or life imprisonment. A little understanding could go a long way. So could making solutions less about paying down money and more about feeling like there's a reason to, you know?


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## Veggie

And finally... lol, sorry for hijacking your thread, this is just interesting to me because I was in a similar position about five years ago (though in fairness, I don't have nearly that much debt... still, debt is debt).

If he feels like all he's done is plan and look to the future and make investments that haven't panned out for him, I can completely understand a reluctance to do so again now (it sounds like this may be where he's coming from if he's so frustrated ...but I don't know, maybe that's a projection, because I'm Ni and not Fi... and the future gets very grim for me under stress - like, maybe I'll finally pay down this debt and then my house burns down the next day or I get fired or something). 

Anyway, I was in a similar spot. I left a position in HR that I'd been aiming for. I got there and it was like, hmm, so this was the destination? I really don't like it, and I don't have many (any?) personal reasons to stick this out, other than fear or shame. (I've more or less liked jobs before). Now what? I left with the plan to take a couple months off (if I hadn't figured something out by the end of it then I'd just start waiting tables or what not for a while), hoping serendipity would sort of step in to help me figure out my next move. (I got into typology around this time as well). Maybe a conversation with a person or something like that would create an opportunity or spark an idea. (It did. I was watching Friends and Phoebe was talking about massage therapy and it was an aha moment. I looked into it and - schooling was relatively fast, it's relatively cheap, having a licensed trade in our economy felt like a secure move, it's more or less transferable if I want to move, the hours are flexible if I decide eventually to go for higher education beyond my bachelor's).

I'm actually looking to get back into something HR related again now. It's admittedly a little more difficult what with the break, but I'm willing to start at the bottom again if I have to, and I know I'll be infinitely happier if I do, having a license to fall back on so that I'm not stuck (I'm keeping it active). Plus, I've been staring down some existential and mortality crises that those seemingly dead end scenarios can bring to the surface and feel stronger and more confident. (Can be brutal!)

I've kind of learned to see debt as an almost inevitability in our society. So long as I have some savings and/or an income to make payments then okay. (Really, even having a credit score that isn't fantastic isn't the worst thing ever either, so long as you stay on top of it and your debt within reason, and you can always pay off a credit score, essentially, like you do debt (I've pulled it up pretty quickly before in the past when it wasn't the best). Plus, if you get creative there are potentially ways around it. I thought it was interesting that a credit check wasn't required where I'm living now, for example. I rent a room and a bedroom in a house, and my set up is nicer than anywhere I've lived that's required one. It's furnished, private pool, utilities are included, lots of security cameras, etc ...probably won't work if I decide I want a family, but I'm not there yet, and maybe won't get there at all, so I'm keeping my focus on one thing at a time). 

I get that thinking like that can be seen as irresponsible, but if you already have the debt then there's no guarantee that you'll pay it back anyway. You could fall over dead tomorrow. Why stop the rationalization where the man wants you to? (Like rationalizing that it wasn't irresponsible to accrue that much debt if that's what it takes to be an architect - and hey, maybe). 

The goal should be to anyway, of course, so as not to burden others, but not at the expense of living your life imo, because you don't know how much you're going to get, and it's already there. These things ebb and flow too. One month you might have difficulty paying the minimum, another you might be able to pay considerable portions. Due to that, maybe another opportunity that pops up on a different path could actually even lead to a quicker pay off than what was planned otherwise. (I've been in these situations too where that's been the case).

I don't know. So I guess take or leave all that, and I realize that it isn't completely equivalent, but sometimes these stories can humanize this type of stuff? This thread felt pretty black and white, but I think it's all perspective. Debt in itself is a risk, and life kinda requires risk taking otherwise too.


----------



## General Lee Awesome

long term or short term break between jobs? life doesn't need to be on track right away. 

What I see is you need things lined up, and planned out, where he just want to go with the flow right now, which is causing you anxiety. 

wait a bit and see. Some people need a break before jump starting.


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## Kn0wB34

Hell, I'm a second year Master's student with high debt and am pushing myself like crazy to get any job (in my field or somewhat)...I just had an interview today for a paid internship and hope for the best. My debt is also going to be in the six figures too due to going to a somewhat prestigious school...No complaints though. I'm a 'borderline INFP' and am aware we can be 'lazy' at times. But he should learn that there are many responsibilites that you will need to commit in life no matter how dreadful.

I also understand the people who want to take breaks and 'figure things out.' If he had minimal debt, money saved up, and very little responsibilities it would easier to quit I guess. Has he considered seeking out other jobs wihile working and only staying until he is able to save up enough money that will allow him to 'take time off'? Realistically, that kind of debt is not going to go away fast...his main priority should be having money for daily living/expenses and for bills if he wishes to take time off to think...


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## Kn0wB34

Veggie said:


> And finally... lol, sorry for hijacking your thread, this is just interesting to me because I was in a similar position about five years ago (though in fairness, I don't have nearly that much debt... still, debt is debt).
> 
> If he feels like all he's done is plan and look to the future and make investments that haven't panned out for him, I can completely understand a reluctance to do so again now (it sounds like this may be where he's coming from if he's so frustrated ...but I don't know, maybe that's a projection, because I'm Ni and not Fi... and the future gets very grim for me under stress - like, maybe I'll finally pay down this debt and then my house burns down the next day or I get fired or something).
> 
> Anyway, I was in a similar spot. I left a position in HR that I'd been aiming for. I got there and it was like, hmm, so this was the destination? I really don't like it, and I don't have many (any?) personal reasons to stick this out, other than fear or shame. (I've more or less liked jobs before). Now what? I left with the plan to take a couple months off (if I hadn't figured something out by the end of it then I'd just start waiting tables or what not for a while), hoping serendipity would sort of step in to help me figure out my next move. (I got into typology around this time as well). Maybe a conversation with a person or something like that would create an opportunity or spark an idea. (It did. I was watching Friends and Phoebe was talking about massage therapy and it was an aha moment. I looked into it and - schooling was relatively fast, it's relatively cheap, having a licensed trade in our economy felt like a secure move, it's more or less transferable if I want to move, the hours are flexible if I decide eventually to go for higher education beyond my bachelor's).
> 
> I'm actually looking to get back into something HR related again now. It's admittedly a little more difficult what with the break, but I'm willing to start at the bottom again if I have to, and I know I'll be infinitely happier if I do, having a license to fall back on so that I'm not stuck (I'm keeping it active). Plus, I've been staring down some existential and mortality crises that those seemingly dead end scenarios can bring to the surface and feel stronger and more confident. (Can be brutal!)
> *
> I've kind of learned to see debt as an almost inevitability in our society. So long as I have some savings and/or an income to make payments then okay. (Really, even having a credit score that isn't fantastic isn't the worst thing ever either, so long as you stay on top of it and your debt within reason, and you can always pay off a credit score, essentially, like you do debt (I've pulled it up pretty quickly before in the past when it wasn't the best). Plus, if you get creative there are potentially ways around it. I thought it was interesting that a credit check wasn't required where I'm living now, for example. I rent a room and a bedroom in a house, and my set up is nicer than anywhere I've lived that's required one. It's furnished, private pool, utilities are included, lots of security cameras, etc ...probably won't work if I decide I want a family, but I'm not there yet, and maybe won't get there at all, so I'm keeping my focus on one thing at a time). *
> 
> I get that thinking like that can be seen as irresponsible, but if you already have the debt then there's no guarantee that you'll pay it back anyway. You could fall over dead tomorrow. Why stop the rationalization where the man wants you to? (Like rationalizing that it wasn't irresponsible to accrue that much debt if that's what it takes to be an architect - and hey, maybe).
> 
> The goal should be to anyway, of course, so as not to burden others, but not at the expense of living your life imo, because you don't know how much you're going to get, and it's already there. These things ebb and flow too. One month you might have difficulty paying the minimum, another you might be able to pay considerable portions. Due to that, maybe another opportunity that pops up on a different path could actually even lead to a quicker pay off than what was planned otherwise. (I've been in these situations too where that's been the case).
> 
> I don't know. So I guess take or leave all that, and I realize that it isn't completely equivalent, but sometimes these stories can humanize this type of stuff? This thread felt pretty black and white, but I think it's all perspective. Debt in itself is a risk, and life kinda requires risk taking otherwise too.


Wow, I feel the same way.Don't know if this is an INFJ mindset or what lol. Seems like many people just put down taking our debt, which is understandable of course. But, I don't let money dictate my life like that. As long as if I'm able to live a moderately comfortable and flexible life with the capability to make the payments, then that's fine. I don't see myself getting things like a car, a family, or a full sized house anytime soon when I complete my Masters at 25. Whatevs lol.After my Master's,I even intend to entroll in an online certificate program in Computer Science just to add on to my current field...I hope to pay it out of pocket though unlike my Masters. You gotta figure out what you enjoy in life...and what you wish to prioritize in life.


----------



## Veggie

OneLove21 said:


> Wow, I feel the same way.Don't know if this is an INFJ mindset or what lol. Seems like many people just put down taking our debt, which is understandable of course. But, I don't let money dictate my life like that. As long as if I'm able to live a moderately comfortable and flexible life with the capability to make the payments, then that's fine. I don't see myself getting things like a car, a family, or a full sized house anytime soon when I complete my Masters at 25. Whatevs lol.After my Master's,I even intend to entroll in an online certificate program in Computer Science just to add on to my current field...I hope to pay it out of pocket though unlike my Masters. You gotta figure out what you enjoy in life...and what you wish to prioritize in life.


I can understand the OP's possible hesitancy with someone who can't see themselves getting a car, a family, a house... but then she's been advised not to marry this dude. His debt isn't anything new though. His unemployment is. And that could have happened at any time. Supposed security can be an illusion...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Tangent, not necessarily a response to onelove).

If she won't marry him, wth is he doing what he's doing for, if these concerns are more so exacerbated by partnership? I was kinda in a similar situation when I gave my story - half committed to a thinker who I was secretly starting to absolutely hate. So I pulled my own my way or the highway move. (I can't say what's going on here, but usually someone isn't _that_ miserable just due to a job... so I wonder if there's another side to this story. He's so obviously the deadbeat right? Hmmm. (Can you be emotionally deadbeat?) Regardless, dude essentially put an expensive a$$ ring on architecture, declared it to the world, and she took the kids, the estate, the dog. Kinda understandable if he needs a bit of mourning before moving on to something else professionally... there seems to be little to no concern for this, just, ugh, I'm so annoyed and busy).


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## VoxPopuli

Veggie said:


> The goal should be to anyway, of course, so as not to burden others, but not at the expense of living your life imo, because you don't know how much you're going to get, and it's already there. These things ebb and flow too. One month you might have difficulty paying the minimum, another you might be able to pay considerable portions. Due to that, maybe another opportunity that pops up on a different path could actually even lead to a quicker pay off than what was planned otherwise. (I've been in these situations too where that's been the case).


I don't know what the typical income is for an Architect, but this is likely something that is going to hang over him for a decade and far longer if he decides he'd rather quit his job and play video games. Why should she have to put her life on hold for so long waiting on this guy just to get his feet under him when there are millions of other guys so much further ahead? Seems kind of like a no-brainer to me.


----------



## Veggie

VoxPopuli said:


> I don't know what the typical income is for an Architect, but this is likely something that is going to hang over him for a decade and far longer if he decides he'd rather quit his job and play video games. Why should she have to put her life on hold for so long waiting on this guy just to get his feet under him when there are millions of other guys so much further ahead? Seems kind of like a no-brainer to me.


It hasn't even been established that he's going to play video games. I feel like at this point it might become a self fulfilling prophecy though, lol... (I'ma play video games? You know what. I was an f'ing architect when I (still) got this crap. Might as well play video games!) Actually, he's still working this reputable job (quite possibly more so reputable than what she does, we don't know what that is). If she puts him down in the same way that you put people down (so that you can "win" all the gold stars for yourselves? Much impress!) then she'd probably be doing him a HUGE favor to let him go about his life from here on out as he chooses without having to worry about her and her worldview that likely differs quite a bit from his and is dragging him down.

"Further ahead" - lol. Tis subjective. Not everyone sucks at the teet of the capitalist elite and then stands waiting for approval like a six year old who just cleaned his plate. "Am I a real boy yet papa?!"

You kind of sound like you're cock blocking with that too lol. Like letting him be is an invalidation to your persona.

Also, playing video games in between jobs isn't a slippery slope into permanent unemployment if you're not a moron.


----------



## VoxPopuli

Veggie said:


> If she puts him down in the same way that you put people down (so that you can "win" all the gold stars for yourselves? Much impress!) then she'd probably be doing him a HUGE favor to let him go about his life from here on out as he chooses without having to worry about her and her worldview that likely differs quite a bit from his and is dragging him down.


Everyone is saying to drop him IF he quits, not to just drop him for being in debt. If he keeps working and paying the debt off then at least there is some future there. If not then things look pretty bleak.



Veggie said:


> "Further ahead" - lol. Tis subjective. Not everyone sucks at the teet of the capitalist elite and then stands waiting for approval like a six year old who just cleaned his plate. "Am I a real boy yet papa?!"


Having money isn't just about buying a new car and fancy clothes, it's about being able to provide a better life for your children. If he isn't financially secure then it's going to be HER kids suffering for it when they aren't able to have all the opportunities opened up to them that some other kids would have and start out life at a disadvantage. Not to mention that if they did get married and retire they will need ~2 Million dollars to live off of and this guy hasn't show any ability to reach that sort of goal so she could potentially find herself retired and unable to pay medical expenses and living a shorter and less happy life as well due to not having sufficient monetary resources.



Veggie said:


> You kind of sound like you're cock blocking with that too lol. Like letting him be is an invalidation to your persona.


Oh please, nobody even knows who this chick is so it's not like we're trying to move in on her. Plus the cock is presumably already unblocked at this point so I'm not sure how that even applies.



Veggie said:


> Also, playing video games in between jobs isn't a slippery slope into permanent unemployment if you're not a moron.


It's certainly not a good sign if you're an adult.


----------



## Veggie

VoxPopuli said:


> Everyone is saying to drop him IF he quits, not to just drop him for being in debt. If he keeps working and paying the debt off then at least there is some future there. If not then things look pretty bleak.


The advice I saw in at least a couple places was don't tie yourself to that kind of debt. The debt exists whether he quits or not.

Also, so long as he has savings and/or income he can continue to pay off debt, architect or nay. Breaks or nay. Not that bleak. Life is full of opportunity if you're creative.



VoxPopuli said:


> Having money isn't just about buying a new car and fancy clothes, it's about being able to provide a better life for your children. If he isn't financially secure then it's going to be HER kids suffering for it when they aren't able to have all the opportunities opened up to them that some other kids would have and start out life at a disadvantage. Not to mention that if they did get married and retire they will need ~2 Million dollars to live off of and this guy hasn't show any ability to reach that sort of goal so she could potentially find herself retired and unable to pay medical expenses and living a shorter and less happy life as well due to not having sufficient monetary resources.


Well, I guess this is where gender roles and biology come in and where there could be another disconnect with my story. (A _lot _of people now have accepted that they may not retire anymore like they thought they would too, btw... we have no clue really what that's going to look like in several decades yet). Stuff to think about for her as a woman, sure. (I'm also old fashioned though in some ways too, and if marriage isn't on the table, neither are planned children... and apparently marriage isn't on the table, so this shouldn't even be an issue in my mind). Also - hasn't shown any ability? Because he's working at the top firm in the region? (Some respect for the gentleman?)



VoxPopuli said:


> Oh please, nobody even knows who this chick is so it's not like we're trying to move in on her. Plus the cock is presumably already unblocked at this point so I'm not sure how that even applies.


I didn't say you were. That's why I brought up persona. It's like your persona is threatened by this persona. (Girl, don't get with a guy who doesn't go by spreadsheets! He ain't a real man an' he's dum. Get with a guy like me <not literally, but just for your ego to reinforce that you win at who women should be with).




VoxPopuli said:


> It's certainly not a good sign if you're an adult.


There are studies about gaming keeping the elderly sharp, so I don't know how strong this argument is.


----------



## VoxPopuli

Veggie said:


> Well, I guess this is where gender roles and biology come in and where there could be another disconnect with my story.


It's not about gender roles. I sure as shit wouldn't marry a woman who had this sort of debt.



Veggie said:


> (A _lot _of people now have accepted that they may not retire anymore like they thought they would too, btw... we have no clue really what that's going to look like in several decades yet).


There isn't really a choice. Eventually people get too old to work and are unable to continue. If they have no savings at that point then life will be pretty miserable. Saving enough money for retirement isn't impossible by any means.


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## Veggie

VoxPopuli said:


> It's not about gender roles. I sure as shit wouldn't marry a woman who had this sort of debt.


Right. So it's about the debt. Sounds like he's wasting his time in literally every way (durrr, why is this guy miserable?), and yet he's the one getting chastised in the process, despite the fact that he's talented and working for a top firm.

I bet dude would enjoy his job a lot more if he could do happy hour with the boys afterwards. I wonder if I would have stayed at mine if I hadn't been trying to beat a dead horse too. (I've heard that relationships can be like their own separate part time jobs).

(Let's also hope that your Cinderella isn't in debt. Unless you're one of those who thinks that romance is an archaic lie and that we should choose our "partners" based purely on their resume < why even have them imo then?)



VoxPopuli said:


> There isn't really a choice. Eventually people get too old to work and are unable to continue. If they have no savings at that point then life will be pretty miserable. Saving enough money for retirement isn't impossible by any means.


Are you an oracle? Lol. What if they have a loving family willing to take them in? What if they get internet famous for channeling their inner Betty White? (<Or whatever an equivalent of that might be in however many years?) What if they do everything right and they're bamboozled by a crooked money stealing guy?


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## VoxPopuli

Veggie said:


> (Let's also hope that your Cinderella isn't in debt. Unless you're one of those who thinks that romance is an archaic lie and that we should choose our "partners" based purely on their resume < why even have them imo then?)


Romance is just some neurotransmitters that go away after a few months. If it's so great then feel free to explain the X number of guys you've burned through in your life. I'm sure they were all romantic at first.. until reality set in.


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## Veggie

VoxPopuli said:


> Romance is just some neurotransmitters that go away after a few months. If it's so great then feel free to explain the X number of guys you've burned through in your life. I'm sure they were all romantic at first.. until reality set in.


Kinda like a financial incentive to invest though, right? A lighter to get the fire going? (I don't know, do you prefer the virtual fires that live as screensavers that never existed as "real" fire at all?)











* *


----------



## Advoc8

You need to put emotion into this with him. 
First priority to keep you both sane: Deal with the debt and it's affect on your overall relationship.
His debt is also really dragging on you, and thus it's causing your relationship to drag. I don't think anyone that cares about someone genuinely- especially an INFP, is going to want to either be a drag to someone, or put someone through feeling that way.

Debt has the potential to ruin him financially, and could do so emotionally if not addressed. Financial issues are some of the biggest root causes of relationship problems. 

IMHO, and what I would expect to be the general opinion of financial advisors, he needs income. To receive income and have money to pay off debt, he needs to have a job (or perhaps even two).

Two suggestions on how to support and encourage this behavior in both of you, and to help this work, if that's what you want:
1) A positive and easy course on how to budget/get out of debt that you can do together. Something like...
https://www.daveramsey.com/fpu

Which focuses on https://www.daveramsey.com/baby-steps
* You can take the courses together, in person, which would probably really help you deal with this issue head on.

2) It's time to start limiting expenses. If he buys- or offers to buy something for you, it's OK to remind him that you'd prefer that money to go toward paying off his debt. If you have certain hobbies together like going to the movies or eating out, cut back on those outings or eliminate them altogether for a while. Make a game of it or make them more special. 

My opinion in short- let him know how you feel. Consider what you want and where you draw your "lines" in the relationship. If you want to keep going and can get him to be amenable, a show of solidarity should help as you tackle the challenges ahead.

It's a tough road, but often the toughest challenges we face together both deepen our bonds with each other and make victories that much sweeter.


----------



## Dopey

@Veggie 



> I was kinda in a similar situation when I gave my story - half committed to a thinker who I was secretly starting to absolutely hate.


:shocked:


----------



## Hero of Freedom

Would you do a favor and tell him about this organization too if anything happens to you/him?: http://www.wsws.org/ or http://llco.org/

Whatever one he can read and take his pick.

The world economy is already in recession and you can expect it to get worse for all people if the stock market were to crash. Which will probably have happened by 2020 - 2025 even a document by somebody at the top of the US military command predicts. But incase anything happens to him and he doesn't come back in one piece let me know or give him the details of the organization above please. He and whatever emotions that can be useful left behind from any bad situation that happened will be much needed.

The SEQ and LLCO is looking for people like him if he doesn't make it in one piece. Be glad to take him under their wing if anything happens to him, or maybe you should tell him now. Can you try to get him to go on those sites if possible now?


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## Veggie

Dopey said:


> @Veggie
> 
> 
> 
> :shocked:


Yea, that was a dramatic statement, I was feeling a little bit inflammatory.

In reality I was just starting to resent him (and him me).

So something for OP to keep in mind. That can go both ways.


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## Hero of Freedom

Advoc8 said:


> Debt has the potential to ruin him financially, and could do so emotionally if not addressed. Financial issues are some of the biggest root causes of relationship problems.


Capitalism, just doing what it does best to people and has always done. What more could he expect? Its already especially rigged against NFs in general. 

Everytime I see other INFPs or NFs in general mistreated for being who they are, especially how some people on here treated the user love.script last time it reminds me of how the Nazis treated/portrayed the Jews before the holocaust took place. When I see posters like this trying to do the same thing the Nazis did to the Jews, or how America treats blacks today to INFPs I remember the two words "Never again!" I believe in social justice and social equality.



VoxPopuli said:


> No.


Atleast not in Capitalism, ah the system that can't even meet everyone's basic needs designed for him to fail in. You NF-haters, specifically INFP-haters probably have trouble seeing through that excessive privilege you have from the framework of Capitalism, so I will say here that you might want to watch what happens when the tables are turned around. Meanwhile I suggest you go back to stormfront or wherever you belong with the rest of your pals, nice that I am going to delete all your stuff when YouTube Heroes gets going :happy:. Won't have to see your content floating around YouTube again.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar

Pamegranate said:


> My INFP SO keeps talking about quitting his job. He is a designer and has worked at 2 firms now and hated them both. He's been getting angrier and angrier about his situation and says he's going to just quit.


What exactly is wrong with these firms? What is making him hate them?



VoxPopuli said:


> There seems to be a huge lack of understanding on this in our current youth. I guess it's probably part of the whole, "everyone's a winner" BS they teach now that causes people to understand that in the real world most people don't end up at the top of the pyramid. Even if you are destined to be doing what you always dreamed of you won't do it the day you graduate college. It takes years proving yourself at a company before they start to let you do the big and important projects most people dream of. You don't graduate college and suddenly get put in charge of designing an 80 story skyscraper (or whatever else an architect might dream of).


That's one of the reasons why college costs are insane. I guess they teach the "everyone is a winner" BS to make people take these debts without considering how bad things will be.
The sheer amount of work after college to get anywhere in career makes just finishing education much less valuable than they claim.

But then there should be honest education, especially financial education, not misleading people



VoxPopuli said:


> The only problem here is that the Government has subsidized loans and possibly implied it will bail people out. The Government need to make clear that under absolutely no circumstance will it ever forgive a single penny of student loan debt. Maybe then the banks will stop giving out money and people will stop borrowing money. If you prefer a more interventionist approach then the US should just outright ban student loans above a certain amount depending on the major being perused.


Yeah, pretty much this. Also, anyone trying to take this kind of a loan could have to take a short course that would explain the implications of such a decision and how to calculate which school is the best.

The whole college loan industry and college cost thing in USA is an absurd.

Here tuition fees in college per year are like 4,3k pln per year for bachelor and 6k per year for major in a private college. In practice it's spend 1-2 years in a private college and move to a state college to study for free.


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## VoxPopuli

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Yeah, pretty much this. Also, anyone trying to take this kind of a loan could have to take a short course that would explain the implications of such a decision and how to calculate which school is the best.
> 
> The whole college loan industry and college cost thing in USA is an absurd.


It's literally the EXACT same as the whole housing bubble and "NINJA" loans. The banks make risky loans to people who they know don't have the financial sense to understand what they are getting into knowing that the Government will bail the banks out if anything ever goes wrong. It's only a matter of time until this bubble bursts as well. Hopefully this time it's the banks that take the hit instead of the middle class (haha, yeah right like that will ever happen with Hillary as President).


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar

VoxPopuli said:


> It's literally the EXACT same as the whole housing bubble and "NINJA" loans. The banks make risky loans to people who they know don't have the financial sense to understand what they are getting into knowing that the Government will bail the banks out if anything ever goes wrong. It's only a matter of time until this bubble bursts as well. Hopefully this time it's the banks that take the hit instead of the middle class (haha, yeah right like that will ever happen with Hillary as President).


Besides the bank bailouts, the overall problem is the idea that things need to be sold and living needs to be earned by making people buy things. Lot's of stupidity comes from the relentless drive to selling things. To make people desire things, to make them make bad financial decisions.
You almost never see advertisements promoting not buying things, not taking credits, etc.

It's not just government backed stuff. The whole sales culture is toxic and full of crooks. Banking, telecommunication, etc.
Lying to customers to get a sale, giving people papers to sign in a way that suggests that they don't need to read them, and then outright fraud like this:
5,300 Wells Fargo employees fired over 2 million phony accounts - Sep. 8, 2016


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar

doublepost


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## VoxPopuli

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Besides the bank bailouts, the overall problem is the idea that things need to be sold and living needs to be earned by making people buy things. Lot's of stupidity comes from the relentless drive to selling things. To make people desire things, to make them make bad financial decisions.
> You almost never see advertisements promoting not buying things, not taking credits, etc.
> 
> It's not just government backed stuff. The whole sales culture is toxic and full of crooks. Banking, telecommunication, etc.
> Lying to customers to get a sale, giving people papers to sign in a way that suggests that they don't need to read them, and then outright fraud like this:
> 5,300 Wells Fargo employees fired over 2 million phony accounts - Sep. 8, 2016


Funny story:

I have a good job, a fairly large cache of liquid assets and no loans. In fact I haven't had any loans in over 7 years. I thought this would mean I had good credit since I was living responsibly within my means. I decided to check my credit and it turned out it was actually quite bad?!? I then applied for a few credit cards to help boost my credit and was DENIED. Upon asking why I was informed that the fact I wasn't in debt meant that I apparently could't be trusted with money? What sort of backwards logic is that. In our society it's considered a POSITIVE to constantly be in debt and living beyond your means and a NEGATIVE to have cash reserves and living within your means.


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## septic tank

LibertyPrime said:


> I wish someone would explain it to young ppl that its very rare to find a career/job which one can enjoy and even then other ppl turn it into hell. This makes it a bad idea to "follow my passion" if the person is not ready to suffer to a certain degree.





VoxPopuli said:


> There seems to be a huge lack of understanding on this in our current youth. I guess it's probably part of the whole, "everyone's a winner" BS they teach now that causes people to understand that in the real world most people don't end up at the top of the pyramid. Even if you are destined to be doing what you always dreamed of you won't do it the day you graduate college. It takes years proving yourself at a company before they start to let you do the big and important projects most people dream of. You don't graduate college and suddenly get put in charge of designing an 80 story skyscraper (or whatever else an architect might dream of).


I'm in college right now, and if your main goal isn't to make a bunch of money, then you're trying to "follow your passion" and are picking out a liberal arts degree. And there's a lot of people I know who acting idealistic about their career paths thinking that they'll make it. I blame a lot of parents and teachers from when we were young for not talking sense into us, (my parents never liked talking about finances around me for some reason) but I also blame children's programming for idolizing this attitude, and associating money with greed way too much.

Children's TV shows often idolize careers that seem cool but have no financial future, and to make up for that they state, "If you try hard enough, you'll make it." For example, there's a bunch of Disney Channel shows about being an actress or a singer. There's one in particular about a wannabe actress who works as a nanny, and even though her career looks grim she's still trying to be an actress. The moral of that show is, "Yeah, you're going to have to work a shit hourly-wage job, but keep believing in yourself and you'll become ___." It's like children's TV shows are idolizing having unrealistic expectations that pair you up with shitty jobs.

As for attitudes towards money, basically at every mention of money in children's programming is associated with greed as far as I can tell. An easy example is Mr. Krabs from Spongebob. Maybe a Sesame Street episode will teach use how to count nickels, but I can't think of anything that fosters a positive attitude towards money; one that encourages learning about financial literacy when we're older. 

So honestly, I blame children's programming, along with teachers not saying "no" to these ideas either and remaining passive. We probably have the "everyone's a winner" culture now because little Trisha really wants to be an astronaut, and the TV told her to believe in herself and it will come true, and what elementary teacher has the guts to say it probably won't happen? 


I think college students now are more realistic about their careers from when we were five, but I still think having a long exposure to this attitude from when we were young is the reason why we're idealists career-wise and don't give a damn about money. I'm just happy I was pessimistic enough to really look into career paths during college that no one ever talks about, like accounting.


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