# IEE But Alpha Quadra?



## afloatexplorer (Jun 18, 2016)

As an ENFP in MBTI, it made sense for me to look up IEE the first thing when it came to my Socionics type, it fits. The Ti polr is quite fitting and the Te Hidden Agenda is pretty spot on.

However, the conflict arose when Reinin dichotomies (Judicious, Merry, and Democratic), quite fittingly so, pointed me to Alpha Quadra instead (I can relate to Delta in many ways, it's just I relate more to Alpha). Given that both Alpha and Delta have Judicious, I will focus on how I came to Merry and Democratic instead.

Personally, I don't care much about formal introductions, I am okay talking to someone for hours without knowing anything official about that person (major, job, name etc). I don't hold an objective truth view; while I think it's nice to have an objective truth as a reference or guideline, it is not absolute, namely, opinions/actions/beliefs, depends on circumstances, should be allowed depart from it. While on the first look I might category people, e.g. "this tunnel is full of homeless and druggies, I better walk the other way or I might be robbed", on deeper look it it not something I do in auto-mode, e.g. I once sat with a homeless and sang along with him without thinking anything about it except had fun; a gypsy came to me out of the blue and asked me if she could have my seat while I was sitting on it and I was like okay (I was a bit lost by her request but overall I didn't think much about it). I like to propose look-at-it-this-way with genuine curiosity, basically asking why without being imposing, i.e. not debating, not brainwashing, simply chatting, e.g. my ex disliked prostitutes greatly, and somehow she found out a waitress, who was friendly and helpful towards people, was one and my ex refused to have that girl served her and avoided speaking to that girl. I was explaining my view to my ex in terms of a bigger picture, i.e. not specifically relate to that girl, how being a prostitute is really not a big deal per se (if one was forced like human trafficking, it's sad and not the girls' fault; if girls were on drugs, they were literally not themselves anymore as drugs changed frontal lobes physically as well as chemically; if the girls volunteered into it, good for them, they were being independent and earned money without burdening anyone such as her family etc). I was hoping my ex could explain to me why she disliked those girls while all I got was "this is disgusting" (referred to me telling my view/this chat).


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Quadras are defined by shared valued aspects, not by Reinin traits. If you value Fi-Te-Si-Ne you're a Delta, and if you value Ti-Fe-Si-Ne you're an Alpha. It's simple as that.

Tbh I don't put much stock in Reinin traits these days. They can be pretty confusing and for the most part are just an unnecessary complication that doesn't bring anyone closer to discovering their type. Their existence has been derived mathematically, but there's zero proof that the way they are described and understood nowadays is the correct way of interpretation of dichotomies that has been discovered. One can play as much as they want with these dichotomies and conduct as many fancy thought experiments as they like to end up with that they might mean something else entirely.


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## Contivity (Jul 19, 2016)

I had this confusion before but more from MBTI standpoint rather than socionics. I think this comes down to Ti-Fe vs Fi-Te combo. A lot of time, as ENFP myself, my Fi ability may incorporate some Fe ability, especially if harmony is one of the values you hold dear. 

Fe will try to instill harmony regardless at the expense of individuality, while Fi will try to maintain individuality while trying to be harmonious.

Te vs Ti, to me is harder to explain and I may not understand it completely yet. However here's the term I borrow from others:
Te concerns about output, result and control. They are not as concerned as how things get there, but the fact that it's done. Ti will try to figure out how things get from the input to the output and the progress from one step to the other.


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## afloatexplorer (Jun 18, 2016)

@To_august

I found a member here defined 

_"...Delta aristocracy is the reverse of the canonical, stereotypical kind as it sees groups and labels with contempt and prefers to focus on the individual and personal qualities of someone, digging under the surface and defining their own 'labels' and 'groups' by simply valuing independent thinking and focusing on what defines a person rather than biting into commonly accepted social labels.
I consider Delta and especially Fi-dominant Aristocracy as counter aristocracy, to steal other systems' terms, as they aren't following the typical protocol but rather helping preserving individuality by noticing someone's potential first and foremost and only mentally labeling them when it comes to defining someone's peculiarities in order to understand them better and compare them to the self. This is usually my personal take in this kind of situation."_

And this would point me to Delta Quadra instead. Anyway I agree that Reinin dichotomies complicate things especially if I take the rest 12 ones into picture, for me the combinations tend to contradict with each other.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

afloatexplorer said:


> @*To_august*
> 
> I found a member here defined
> 
> ...


This is more true to Delta NF types. For example, I don't tend to think about qualities of people neither on individual nor on group level at all. If I think about someone's qualities then it's more in terms of their usefulness, how well they perform, can they be trusted etc., without digging much into the very core of who they are as people. I have occasional sparks of curiosity on that matter and sometimes I think about what constitutes any particular person, but they fade away rather quickly and largely my focus is somewhere else. That's my poor Ne, probably, or poor ethics, or both.


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

@afloatexplorer

Both Reinin and "quadra values" are concepts with little use in examining an individual's type. Reinin simply has little supporting evidence (and no empirical evidence that I am aware of) while "quadra values" aren't as simple as "you should fit into one of the four."

Quadra values are, in fact, known to be valued by individuals differently based on rationality (rational vs. irrational a.k.a. judger vs. perceiver) or even socionics subtype. For example, the question, "what is a more satisfying relationship: mirage or semi-dual?" Using IEE as an example, perceivers are known to prefer their mirage (IEE and ILI) over their semi-dual, while judgers are known to prefer their semi dual (EII and LIE, for example).

As for subtypes and quadras, I believe there is correlation between subtype and "appreciation for" non-conflicting quadras. In another example, an IEE-Ne would have a stronger appreciation for alphas in general as they share the Ne focus, while an IEE-Fi would have a stronger appreciation for gammas with a shared Fi focus. From this, an individual may feel a stronger "association" with a given quadra than even their own--again, in part because quadra values aren't really a substantially "individualized" concept.


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