# Trying to understand functions: what cognitive functions was I using here?



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Hello,

I'm trying to understand cognitive functions so that I can work out my personality type. I have read lots of material about the different functions but I still can't work out what functions I use the most. The only way I can figure out how to do this is by posting examples of my behaviour and you guys telling me what functions I was using at the time.

I hope that makes sense. So in this scenario what functions was I using?

I was in a club with friends the other night and one guy started dancing with us. Then my friend and this guy started kissing. They haven't never met before it was a spontaneous moment. 

The guy then left our group without saying goodbye - he just walked off. And so I said "Where did he go?" and my friend who was kissing him said "I don’t' know". So I looked around the corner where the bar is to see if he was getting a drink or something and I saw him sat with two other girls, arms around them chatting them up etc. 

My friend was really hurt by this, but I was not surprised. My two other friends were also hurt by his actions and were very protective of my friend who had been kissing the guy. The night ended with one of my friends shouting at the guy and my other friend slapping him. 

This annoyed me. I thought my friends behaviour was completely unnecessary. This guy was basically on the pull, he had made no promises so getting angry at him and slapping him was unnecessary. My friend was very hurt and I could sympathise, she got her hopes up. But a night club is not a place to meet your future boyfriend!

I didn't tell my friends my thoughts because I didn't want to upset them. Instead I told my friend who had kissed the guy that he isn't worth getting upset over and it is his loss.

Today the subject was brought up again about what happened and I decided to tell her my thoughts on the matter and she just said she's over it now so doesn't really care what happened that night. Which is fair enough. 

So...what functions was I using here?

Thanks!


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Yeah, this working out functions thing is hard but I'll try and help.

I notice from your signature you're deciding between INFJ and INFP, two completely different types. Ni Fe Ti Se or Fi Ne Si Te - not one shared function! If you're serious about finding your type you'll have to drop the idea that you're a quiet girl who doesn't take everything at face value and respects people's feelings so you must be an INF - it's a view based on stereotypes and while it might be true it might not.

Consider the personal element of the situation - did you have any thoughts on the guy's motives as he approached or did you "just know" what he was after? Was this based on previous experiences in clubs, life or an idealised image of how guys should behave?

I'd also like to ask whether you have got better at suppressing the urge to tell the truth (as you see it) as you have got older, or more keen to express it? The above example is just one and to me has F and T involved, with intended emphasis on the F as that's what you think you use. But I could be overanalysing a very short piece of text :laughing:

If you had all been sober and the guy had just come over and talked for a while before disappearing without saying bye how would you have reacted/felt? Why is this different to when in a club drinking? Why were you not sympathetic/supportive of your friends feelings?

The reason MBTI is a self typing system is because it's about the why not the what you do. If you're willing to write an essay of your entire through process for such an event someone could do it for you, but everything you write will have bias.

In anticipation of your response I'm going to read some of your other posts to try and get a better picture of you, hope you don't mind :happy:


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## ImNoTJustletters (Sep 24, 2010)

Having read through the original post I came to the conclusion that your behaviour is in many ways similar to that in INFJ descriptions. I suggest that you have a chat with some INFJs and see if you identify with them.

I did not realise, until I looked at asmit's post, that your signature indicates INFJ or INFP, but I tend to trust my gut instinct when reading this kind of thing. Though the scenario is very breifly described, there is significant evidence that you have developed considerable control of your feelings and treat your value based judgments with a respect not often seen in a thinking type individual. I saw little to no sign of significant detail that would be considered necessary data for a sensing type individual, but it could just be that you were trying to keep it short, so ISFJ is also a slight possibility.
This statement, 


umbrellasky said:


> My friend was really hurt by this, but I was not surprised. My two other friends were also hurt by his actions


may also be indicative of an under developed extroverted sensing function. Giving further creedence to the possibility of INFJ type.

Function-wise, 
Strong objective use of Feeling function, indicating Fe in dominant or secondary position; subsequently indicating Ti (introverted thinking) as tertiary or inferior;
Weak objective use of Sensing function, indicating Se in tertiary or inferior position; subsequently indicating Ni (introverted intuition) as dominant or secondary;
There are also mild undertones of the predictive nature of the Ni function.
The fact that you saw a greater need to protect and withdraw, rather than attempt diplomacy with your friends and the guy, shows a preference for introverted behaviour.

Putting it all together we get the functional model - Ni Fe Ti Se, which equates to INFJ.

Of course this is all just guess work. YOU must be the one who decides what _description _is the _closest _fit for you. Remember, your preference type will never be an exact representation of you, because you are individually unique.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> *Consider the personal element of the situation - did you have any thoughts on the guy's motives as he approached or did you "just know" what he was after? Was this based on previous experiences in clubs, life or an idealised image of how guys should behave?*


I 'just knew' what he was after. I've never personally experienced what my friend did but I notice guys going around the club 'trying it on' with different girls. When the guy joined us for a dance I thought he would dance with us for a bit and move on. Then he and my friend started kissing. From my perspective I didn't expect anything to develop from that. I was still wondering when he was going leave our group and eventually start chatting up some other girls. 



asmit127 said:


> *I'd also like to ask whether you have got better at suppressing the urge to tell the truth (as you see it) as you have got older, or more keen to express it? The above example is just one and to me has F and T involved, with intended emphasis on the F as that's what you think you use. But I could be overanalysing a very short piece of tex*t :laughing:


I think as I've got older the urge to tell the truth is stronger. I actually spoke to my friend yesterday (the one who kissed the guy) and told her how I thought the other two girls shouldn't have overreacted the way they did. My friend shrugged her shoulders and said she's over it now. And that was that. She didn't agree or disagree with me. I still have the urge to speak to my other two friends, they are 4 years younger than me and I suppose I feel like I need to give them my perspective on the events that happened. However I've decided that there's no point in speaking to them now as the event was a few days ago and I don't want to come across like a 'know it all' or that I think I'm better than them. I can understand how they reacted. Their friend was upset and they wanted to protec her/fight for her.



asmit127 said:


> If you had all been sober and the guy had just come over and talked for a while before disappearing without saying bye how would you have reacted/felt? Why is this different to when in a club drinking? Why were you not sympathetic/supportive of your friends feelings?


If we were not in a club and he had just come over and talked for a while and not said bye I would have thought he was rude. In a club it's different, people are constantly moving around briefly saying hi and then wondering off so I just assumed that he got what he wanted from my friend and moved on. 

I believe I was supportive of her feelings, I kept checking with her that she was ok because I could see she was hurt and disappointed. I even kept whispering in her ear that it was his loss and that she is worth so much more and to not let it bother her. I thought there was no point me getting fired up like my friends and having a go at the guy when he was just some random guy that we had only just met and who had made no promises. If he had been my friends boyfriend and started chatting up other women then I definitely would have been there telling him off. 

I know that if I was in her shoes I would have been very hurt and upset, probably would have even cried. I would have felt silly for letting my guard down. It seems that when things are happening to me I get very emotional and I can't think straight, but when it's happening to someone else I'm very good at keeping calm. 

I don't know if this adds anything to the above: My mother was ill recently to the point where was crying a lot and was very confused. She said she was surprised with how well I coped and how calm I was about the whole thing and how supportive I was/am. 



asmit127 said:


> In anticipation of your response I'm going to read some of your other posts to try and get a better picture of you, hope you don't mind :happy:


Feel free to read them :laughing:


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## SubterraneanHomesickAlien (May 16, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to understand cognitive functions so that I can work out my personality type. I have read lots of material about the different functions but I still can't work out what functions I use the most. The only way I can figure out how to do this is by posting examples of my behaviour and you guys telling me what functions I was using at the time.
> 
> ...


I was extremely confused by this post. When you said "my friend" I couldn't tell who you were talking about (as you had said there were multiple friends there earlier), and pronouns such as "his" and "her" aren't very helpful when the only person whose gender we know for sure is "the guy". 

From what I could understand, I'd say you were using Fe, which would indicate INFJ. But with inferior Se, I imagine they aren't exactly the type that enjoy going to night clubs. 

Hm... just read your recent post though. "Just knowing" the motives, emotions, and intentions of other people is commonly attributed to Ni, especially as used by xNFJ's. So I would say, from what you have posted, that INFJ is the most likely type for you.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

SubterraneanHomesickAlien said:


> I was extremely confused by this post. When you said "my friend" I couldn't tell who you were talking about (as you had said there were multiple friends there earlier), and pronouns such as "his" and "her" aren't very helpful when the only person whose gender we know for sure is "the guy".
> 
> From what I could understand, I'd say you were using Fe, which would indicate INFJ. But with inferior Se, I imagine they aren't exactly the type that enjoy going to night clubs.
> 
> Hm... just read your recent post though. "Just knowing" the motives, emotions, and intentions of other people is commonly attributed to Ni, especially as used by xNFJ's. So I would say, from what you have posted, that INFJ is the most likely type for you.


Sorry yes it is confusing now that I read it back :S

Basically Friend 1 kissed the guy. Then Friend 2 and Friend 3 confonted the guy first by shouting at him and then by slapping him. I stayed back with Friend 1 and just tried to comfort her and tell her that he isn't worth getting upset over. I thought Friend 2 and Friend 3's actions were uneccessary.


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## SubterraneanHomesickAlien (May 16, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Sorry yes it is confusing now that I read it back :S
> 
> Basically Friend 1 kissed the guy. Then Friend 2 and Friend 3 confonted the guy first by shouting at him and then by slapping him. I stayed back with Friend 1 and just tried to comfort her and tell her that he isn't worth getting upset over. I thought Friend 2 and Friend 3's actions were uneccessary.


Hehe... thanks. Much easier to understand now. Again, I would say you are using Fe in this situation. Comforting other people and tending to their emotions is very much an Fe trait. INFJ is probably your best bet. You might want to check if you use Ni or Ne though, just to be sure (be warned... the distinction can be very confusing at times). There's a thread about the topic here.


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## Drea (Apr 13, 2010)

A lot of people are saying you were using Fe, but I think it was Fi. Fe is more thinking for the better of the group, so you probably would have been on of the girls slapping the guy, not because you thought he needed it, but because you know it would have made your friend feel better in the moment. Instead you went with what you felt internally, signifying Fi.

Just the vibe I get from your story is INFP. I'm INFP...so yeah. That's how I would have reacted, almost exactly.


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## ImNoTJustletters (Sep 24, 2010)

SubterraneanHomesickAlien said:


> I was extremely confused by this post. When you said "my friend" I couldn't tell who you were talking about (as you had said there were multiple friends there earlier), and pronouns such as "his" and "her" aren't very helpful when the only person whose gender we know for sure is "the guy".


Interesting that I had no trouble understanding her OP. (This is really just a comment about our differences – how we interpret things)


SubterraneanHomesickAlien said:


> with inferior Se, I imagine they aren't exactly the type that enjoy going to night clubs.


I have inferior Se and I occasionally enjoy going out to night clubs. I even made a habit of at one stage. The fact of any inferior function doesn't preclude it's use, it simply means that use of that function is immature or under developed compared to your other functions.




Drea said:


> A lot of people are saying you were using Fe, but I think it was Fi. Fe is more thinking for the better of the group, so you probably would have been on of the girls slapping the guy, not because you thought he needed it, but because you know it would have made your friend feel better in the moment. Instead you went with what you felt internally, signifying Fi.
> 
> Just the vibe I get from your story is INFP. I'm INFP...so yeah. That's how I would have reacted, almost exactly.


Fi makes value judgements with regards to the subject (ie the self). You have demonstrated it's use in your last statement, “That's how I would have reacted, almost exactly.” In saying this, you have indicated that you imagine that you would have felt the same way, and therefore done almost exactly the same thing. Having imagined yourself in the situation, you directed the value judgement toward what you would have done, not necessarily what was best for your friend.

Fe makes value judgements with regards to the object. Slapping and abusing people, for any reason, is not a mature well developed use of this function. The fact that Umbrellasky indicated that she did not identify with the friends doing the slapping and abusing, and in fact internally condemned the behaviour, indicates a much more mature use of Fe. 

Knowing the state or process of someone or something is a function of information gathering, and as such indicates sensation or intuitive thought. But it is not merely a passive function, but creative also.
In the case above, having imagined yourself in the situation, Ne is the function that requires the objective situation to change. Ni on the other hand considers the subjective situation is what must change. Ni is also often known as a hidden or very private function, so it's processes are very difficult to see. Umbrellasky, we can see, chose to modify her own internal situation so that she could help a friend.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

ImNoTJustletters said:


> Interesting that I had no trouble understanding her OP. (This is really just a comment about our differences – how we interpret things)


Yeah that was interesting - I had no problem either. Poor use of Te? The OP agreed it was confusing so it might help her (as well as me :happy



umbrellasky said:


> And so I said "Where did he go?"
> 
> I 'just knew' what he was after.
> 
> so I just assumed that he got what he wanted from my friend and moved on.


Hmm... you knew he had what he wanted, expected him to move on but still asked where he went? I guess an important thing to factor in here is how many drinks you'd had at the time...



umbrellasky said:


> I know that if I was in her shoes I would have been very hurt and upset, probably would have even cried. I would have felt silly for letting my guard down.


Putting yourself in another's shoes sounds like Fi to me, as agreed by ImNoTJustletters above (although he was talking about a different instance)



vel said:


> if you meet people with a judging function dominant you will find that they will hold some strong opinions. *Ones with extraverted judgement function will feel need to express it to outside world*. Ones with introverted judging function like INTPs and INFPs you will find that they can hold some solid internal opinions about things if you talk to them but they interact with the world more on perceiver basis as their main extraverted function is a perceiving one.


This seems relevant here, you are keen to express something to your younger friends and already told your kissed friend your opinion on the actions of the others - did you tell her their actions offended you or that they were wrong to do what they did? What exactly do you want to tell your younger friends?



umbrellasky said:


> I believe I was supportive of her feelings, I kept checking with her that she was ok because I could see she was hurt and disappointed. I even kept whispering in her ear that it was his loss and that she is worth so much more and to not let it bother her.


This sounds like T love to me, as do your short blunt sentences in this thread. Don't forget that Ts are not emotionally cold and evil :laughing:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Yeah that was interesting - I had no problem either. Poor use of Te? The OP agreed it was confusing so it might help her (as well as me :happy
> 
> Hmm... you knew he had what he wanted, expected him to move on but still asked where he went? I guess an important thing to factor in here is how many drinks you'd had at the time...


That’s a good point. Maybe it wasn’t so much that I knew at the time that he was going to move on to someone else it was after when he did move on that I wasn’t surprised. Or maybe I asked ‘where did he go?” to confirm what I already knew? I’m not sure. 



asmit127 said:


> This seems relevant here, you are keen to express something to your younger friends and already told your kissed friend your opinion on the actions of the others - did you tell her their actions offended you or that they were wrong to do what they did? What exactly do you want to tell your younger friends? :


This is what I said to my friend:

_I'm going to say something and I don't want you to think I am having a go because I'm not. However I feel like I need to say this. I think what Rachel and Sophie did was unnecessary. 
My reasoning is this: We were in a club and most of the guys in a club are only interested in one thing therefore to expect a guy to only be interested in you and no one else is slightly naive. What he did didn’t surprise me. It wasn’t very nice but if anyone is looking for more than a kiss a club isn’t the best place for it. So having a go at him and slapping him was unnecessary because really he did nothing wrong. He made no promises. 
I can completely sympathise with how you felt though. And I would have felt the same. Which is why I said that he is losing out because you are so much better than him.
_

I think the moment has passed now for me to say anything to my other friends but if the subject were to come up again I might say something...possibly along the lines of what I said above. But I really don't want to come across like I'm 'I'm telling them off'. I never said they offended me just that I thought what they did was wrong I suppose. I feel very strongly about this, but a part of me is thinking there is no right and wrong so why am I trying to force my opinion on them?

I had had 2 or 3 drinks at the time, but I don't usually notice the affects of alcohol...I'd say I still keep pretty level headed even when I'm drinking and I don't like to get drunk because I hate losing control.



asmit127 said:


> This sounds like T love to me, as do your short blunt sentences in this thread. Don't forget that Ts are not emotionally cold and evil :laughing:


Oh no do my sentences sound really blunt? Sorry if I come across that way I'm just busy with Uni work at the moment so typing quickly :happy:

Thanks to everyone who has helped so far :laughing:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Oh no do my sentences sound really blunt? Sorry if I come across that way I'm just busy with Uni work at the moment so typing quickly





umbrellasky said:


> I'm going to say something and I don't want you to think I am having a go because I'm not. However I feel like I need to say this. I think what Rachel and Sophie did was unnecessary. ... What he did didn’t surprise me. It wasn’t very nice but if anyone is looking for more than a kiss a club isn’t the best place for it. So having a go at him and slapping him was unnecessary because really he did nothing wrong. He made no promises.
> I can completely sympathise with how you felt though. And I would have felt the same. Which is why I said that he is losing out because you are so much better than him.


You were "busy" in your posts pre uni too :laughing: Most of your posts have short sentences, and even this "speech" is mainly short sentences... There's nothing wrong or offensive with that style but it does say something about how you think which is what we're looking at :happy: Don't think I didn't notice the added smilies at the end to "prove" you aren't a T either - I've only found one in the odd post of yours, two in a sentence? :wink: (I'm probably a T and I use loads of smilies, as do some INTJs to "make up for the lack of emotion showing in real life" so they prove nothing :crazy



umbrellasky said:


> Plus, clients often want to see a plan of your idea and the stages you go through and I just don't work like that.


Is this really true? Would you prefer to give them a detailed "picture" of how you see the finished article?



umbrellasky said:


> I never said they offended me just that I thought what they did was wrong I suppose. I feel very strongly about this, but a part of me is thinking there is no right and wrong so why am I trying to force my opinion on them?


So you had a strong judgment of right/wrong and wanted to express it. This judgment sounds very common sense like to me rather than personal - T. But that this desire is growing suggest it isn't in your two most used functions, but that doesn't say anything...



umbrellasky said:


> I realise just how much I always try to please people! It's like I loose myself because I end up taking on the viewpoints of my friends instead of sticking by my own or I forget what my viewpoints would have been before I met them.


I wonder, is this regarding right/wrong or preferences of activities/food etc? Also, and this is a really hard thing for me to answer, _why_ do you try and please people? Fear of rejection? Not really having a strong preference? (you don't have to post the answer but try and be honest with yourself)

I'm sorry that I'm not suggesting anything specific, but if it's getting you thinking that's progress. Though in the thread on the new personality test (skipping lots of pages) you're still saying INFX - are you really that attached to these letters or open to all the possibilities?

I feel like we need another "event" to analyse :mellow:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> You were "busy" in your posts pre uni too :laughing: Most of your posts have short sentences, and even this "speech" is mainly short sentences... There's nothing wrong or offensive with that style but it does say something about how you think which is what we're looking at :happy: Don't think I didn't notice the added smilies at the end to "prove" you aren't a T either - I've only found one in the odd post of yours, two in a sentence? :wink: (I'm probably a T and I use loads of smilies, as do some INTJs to "make up for the lack of emotion showing in real life" so they prove nothing :crazy


Short sentences…hmm well my brother has mentioned to me that in my creative writing I use a lot of short sentences so this must be pretty common for me. I don’t realise I’m doing it. 



asmit127 said:


> Is this really true? Would you prefer to give them a detailed "picture" of how you see the finished article?


When I draw a painting I don’t plan it I just draw whatever is in my head or I work it out on paper and keep fixing it as I go long. Clients like to see you thumbnails of your idea and examples of the colours you are going to use etc but I don’t plan I just work it out as I go along. 

When it comes to writing a story I have found that plotting the story and the characters is just a way for me to procrastinate. I work much better if I can get the ‘bones’ of the story down first and then develop the characters etc afterwards. 



asmit127 said:


> So you had a strong judgment of right/wrong and wanted to express it. This judgment sounds very common sense like to me rather than personal - T. But that this desire is growing suggest it isn't in your two most used functions, but that doesn't say anything...
> 
> I wonder, is this regarding right/wrong or preferences of activities/food etc? Also, and this is a really hard thing for me to answer, _why_ do you try and please people? Fear of rejection? Not really having a strong preference? (you don't have to post the answer but try and be honest with yourself)


I suppose I want people to like me and I think that by pleasing them and doing things for them will get them to like me. It’s the way I’ve always been. I feel like it is my responsibility to help other people. Occasionally if I think I have done more than my fair share then I will stand up for myself and say that it’s someone else’s turn. I find that I can do this with my family but not so much with people I don’t know very well. It’s a confidence thing. 



asmit127 said:


> I'm sorry that I'm not suggesting anything specific, but if it's getting you thinking that's progress. Though in the thread on the new personality test (skipping lots of pages) you're still saying INFX - are you really that attached to these letters or open to all the possibilities?
> 
> I feel like we need another "event" to analyse :mellow:


I’m more attached to IXFX than INFX. I believe that I’m definitely Introvert and definitely a Feeler. I’m not 100% sure if I’m Intuitive or Sensing however I feel that I’m more likely to be intuitive from the things I’ve read. 

Someone else mentioned to me ISFP so I have been looking at that as an option. 

What I don’t match in the ISFP profile is this:

_They are "doers", and are usually uncomfortable with theorizing concepts and ideas, unless they see a practical application._

I wouldn’t describe myself as a doer…I don’t enjoy practical work very much. I prefer to be imaginative and drawing/painting and writing are about as practical as I get. 

However I do learn best if I try things out for myself rather than being told what to do. 

I also get the impression from other websites and what people have said that ISFP’s are ‘trend’ setters. That isn’t me at all.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Another 'event' to analyse hmm...I don't know if this would be useful:

When I first moved into my University accommodation I judged one of my housemates quite harshly. She is very loud and dominates conversations a lot. She likes to talk about herself and it is very hard to have a conversation with her because it feels like a competition all the time! And this used to irritate me to the point where I disliked being in the same room as her. However, my view of her has now changed now that I know her better. She is very thoughtful and likes to check that everyone around her is ok and she likes to everyone in the house to work as a team. I actually quite enjoy her company now, although not all the time as she can be a bit full on, but overall I have learnt to see her good qualities.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm trying to think of other events but can't think of any at the moment.

When I was a child my mother said I was very sensitive to music and 'sad' music used to make me cry. This still happens now, I'm a very sensitive person. 

I was given chocolate milk as a child because I didn't like the taste of normal milk and sometimes if I have warm chocolate milk I have this really strong sensation of when I used to drink it as a child.

Also when I was a child I used to smell my food before I ate it. I don't know whyI did this and my mother didn't know why either. I don't do this anymore...


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Have you read this comparison? You will only use one of these functions and it may not be your primary, but it would be a start :happy:


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

Not to interrupt asmit127's train of thougt on your type, but anyway... I just wanted to add I second the INFJ opinion. I think it fits well with what you posted so far...


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Have you read this comparison? You will only use one of these functions and it may not be your primary, but it would be a start :happy:


Thanks for posting, I don't think I've read that before. I find descriptions of the functions difficult to understand. I know I probably sound really thick, but I need more than just a description. I need examples of how someone might use that particular function in their life, if that makes sense? I need scenarios that I can relate to in order for me to decide if I use that particular funtion more than another function. 

Sorry it just goes over my head :sad:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I know I probably sound really thick, but I need more than just a description. I need examples of how someone might use that particular function in their life, if that makes sense?


Yeah, you sound really thick where I understand the functions perfectly and have my type clearly displayed! (not sure how well you read sarcasm in text, but it was intended :blushed

Have you seen these examples? http://personalitycafe.com/articles/34956-function-attitudes-applied-differing-scenarios.html The scenarios given are external, so hopefully you will hopefully identify with two of the Xe functions, but if you're an I you might not recognise your inferior one...


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Yeah, you sound really thick where I understand the functions perfectly and have my type clearly displayed! (not sure how well you read sarcasm in text, but it was intended :blushed
> 
> Have you seen these examples? http://personalitycafe.com/articles/34956-function-attitudes-applied-differing-scenarios.html The scenarios given are external, so hopefully you will hopefully identify with two of the Xe functions, but if you're an I you might not recognise your inferior one...


Again thanks for your help :happy:

I could relate to Se and Ti in the first example and also Fi and Fe (couldn't decide between the two). The first part of Se _"You might look at the apple tree and notice the contrast of the ruby red apples and the deep green leaves, the rich brown-gray of the trunk and branches, and how the sunlight plays across the yard. "_ I definitely relate to. 

The second part: _"You go to the tree and pick an apple, and bite into it with a crunch, savoring the tree ripened sweetness and the aroma of a really fresh apple. "_ I probably wouldn't do, I'd imagine eating the apple rather than eating it. 

In the second example I could definitely relate to Ne and Se and Fe. Ne more than Se.

:laughing:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

I've thought of another 'event'.

I have two friends who live on the same campus as me but in a different house. They have been having 'issues' with their housemates. Basically their housemates have been bullying them. When they spoke to me about it they were very upset. I suggested that they contact the University housing department and report the situation and seek advice on what can be done. They were very reluctant to do this. They felt that they were overreacting and that they were the ones with the problem. They also felt that they would not be taken seriously if they reported it. 

So I went behind their back and emailed housing asking for advice. I didn't give housing my friends’ names or the house that they live in. It was just an enquiry email asking for advice on what the procedure is for this sort of situation. They replied to me saying that my friends will need to contact them directly. 

So I told my friends what I had done. I actually put in the email "please don't hate me for going behind your back..." I was worried that they might think I was interfering. I've experience bullying and I felt that I couldn't just sit back and allow this to carry on. Anyways, my friends were really happy that I cared enough to get involved and were not angry with me at all. They said that what I had done had helped them make the decision to go and speak to housing.

Any ideas on the functions? The fact that I had experience bullying in the past was definitely one of the things that spurred me on into helping them. From my experience letting things like bullying carry on only makes you ill and I didn't want them to end up ill. They should be able to relax in their own home! Not be frightened to go into their own kitchen when the nasty housemates are in there


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Again, I'm not going to know what the functions are just from the what, it's in the why. 

That you relate to Se in both examples suggests you use it, where an INFP does not. 

Are you more likely to be factually honest with a stranger or someone you know well? It's often easier to be harsher with someone you may never see again compared to a friend you don't want to upset, but conversely you may be more relaxed with friends and more able to speak without thinking. Only you will know which is true for you.

In both of your "events" there isn't much data collection. The situation is, you immediately form an opinion without really knowing what it's based on. This could be the magic Ni "just knowing", but 


> Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and *what goes on in that context*.


could just as easily cover it - in the context of a nightclub the guy's behaviour was acceptable, in "real life" it is not. 

That you'd choose to e-mail your friends on the same campus strongly points to you being an I, but I'm not entirely convinced. Socially probably (you say you are and have no reason to lie) but in MBTI terms maybe not. 

Another thing I've noticed in your posts is an interesting choice of words along with accurate punctuation. How much proof reading do you do before posting? Is it important that your posts are accurate? Why?


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Again, I'm not going to know what the functions are just from the what, it's in the why.
> 
> That you relate to Se in both examples suggests you use it, where an INFP does not.
> 
> ...


Ahh yeas the _why?_ I get it now, it's not just about the actions but the motivation behind them.

My motivations behind the second event, the one about my friends’ housemates, was the fact that I have experienced bullying in school and in the workplace. I could relate to how they were feeling because I remembered feeling the same way. I also know that at their age I didn't have much confidence to stand up for myself and I always felt that because I am a sensitive person I was just overreacting. It was when they spoke to me a second time about the situation that I decided to do something. I could clearly see how upset they were and one of them was close to tears. I think if she had cried I would have cried too because I felt so involved. 

They needed someone to stand up for them and guide them and because I felt so involved I felt it was my responsibility to help them.

I do lots of proofreading...I'm a bit of a perfectionist and there are some words I spell wrong a lot so I have to proof read everything I write to make sure I have spelt them correctly. Like lose, for some reason I spell loose! Drives me nuts. I even copy and paste my posts into word before I post them to check if I've missed any mistakes...

When you say I use an 'interesting choice of words' what do you mean? Can you give me examples? I'd love to know what they are.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> That you'd choose to e-mail your friends on the same campus strongly points to you being an I, but I'm not entirely convinced. Socially probably (you say you are and have no reason to lie) but in MBTI terms maybe not.


Here is a description of Introvert and Extrovert from: My MBTI Personality Type - MBTI Basics - Extraversion or Introversion 
_
Extraversion (E)
I like getting my energy from active involvement in events and having a lot of different activities. I’m excited when I’m around people and I like to energize other people. I like moving into action and making things happen. I generally feel at home in the world. I often understand a problem better when I can talk out loud about it and hear what others have to say.

The following statements generally apply to me:

* I am seen as “outgoing” or as a “people person.”
* I feel comfortable in groups and like working in them.
* I have a wide range of friends and know lots of people.
* I sometimes jump too quickly into an activity and don’t allow enough time to think it over.
* Before I start a project, I sometimes forget to stop and get clear on what I want to do and why.

Introversion (I)
I like getting my energy from dealing with the ideas, pictures, memories, and reactions that are inside my head, in my inner world. I often prefer doing things alone or with one or two people I feel comfortable with. I take time to reflect so that I have a clear idea of what I’ll be doing when I decide to act. Ideas are almost solid things for me. Sometimes I like the idea of something better than the real thing.

The following statements generally apply to me:

* I am seen as “reflective” or “reserved.”
* I feel comfortable being alone and like things I can do on my own.
* I prefer to know just a few people well.
* I sometimes spend too much time reflecting and don’t move into action quickly enough.
* I sometimes forget to check with the outside world to see if my ideas really fit the experience._

I relate much more to the second one. Although I like working in groups, I often find that my voice is ignored. When it comes to working in a group for an assignment I hate it! I prefer working on my own at my own pace. I spend a lot of time thinking about what I'm going to do before actually doing it.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> My motivations behind the second event, the one about my friends’ housemates, was the fact that *I have experienced* bullying in school and in the workplace. I could relate to how they were feeling because *I remembered feeling the same way*. I also know that *at their age I didn't have much confidence to stand up for myself and I always felt that because I am a sensitive person I was just overreacting. It was when they spoke to me a second time about the situation that I decided to do something. I could clearly see how upset they were and one of them was close to tears. I think if she had cried I would have cried too because I felt so involved.*


*I can't see this as anything but Fi - you are putting yourself in their shoes and knowing how they are feeling based on how you would. Though this could be Si reliving a past experience, remembering how bad it felt and some other function deciding how to act based on that. Even hard logical consistency INTJs can see the advantages of happy friends and would act to make them so...



umbrellasky said:



I do lots of proofreading...I'm a bit of a perfectionist and there are some words I spell wrong a lot so I have to proof read everything I write to make sure I have spelt them correctly. Like lose, for some reason I spell loose! Drives me nuts. I even copy and paste my posts into word before I post them to check if I've missed any mistakes...

Click to expand...

You missed the why again :laughing: 


Your "interesting" language (not just choices of words, my bad):-

They haven't never met before it was a spontaneous moment. - "spontaneous event" sounds more natural? or just "it was spontaneous"?

From my perspective I didn't expect anything to develop from that. - Not needed? Nothing wrong with the sentence, it's just slightly weird :happy:

I still have the urge to speak to my other two friends, they are 4 years younger than me and I suppose I feel like I need to give them my perspective on the events that happened. - "view of events" saves two words at the end, or you could say "view" in place of perspective. This is one of your longest sentences yet you extend it further unecessarily to use a more precise word. This is definitely something Ti people worry about, I'm pretty sure Fi does too but again I have no link.

people are constantly moving around briefly saying hi and then wondering off - should be wandering, what is your reaction on being corrected?

I'm going to say something and I don't want you to think I am having a go because I'm not. However I feel like I need to say this. - why not comma but? You didn't run out of breath (although you have not confirmed you aren't a heavy smoker so maybe you did :crazy You rarely use long conjoined sentences, I'm pretty sure I've read this is linked to S types but can't find proof.


Should I look in other threads for more or do you see what I mean?


That post on Introvert/Extrovert is all well and good but it doesn't really work as the I/E doesn't really relate to any functions. Have a search in the ENTP forums and you'll find plenty of posts about not being sociable. Their dominant Ne will just as happily absorb external information from anything such as animals, technology or reading but that's still external stimulus so they are extroverts even though many have problems relating to people and few friends. I've not hung round much in other extrovert forums, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are similar traits to be found, probably in all EXXPs as they have extroverted data gathering (forgot the correct term :blushed not extroverted judging as primary.



umbrellasky said:



They needed someone to stand up for them and guide them and because I felt so involved I felt it was my responsibility to help them.

Click to expand...

But you're not a "doer", right? :wink:*


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> I can't see this as anything but Fi - you are putting yourself in their shoes and knowing how they are feeling based on how you would. Though this could be Si reliving a past experience, remembering how bad it felt and some other function deciding how to act based on that. Even hard logical consistency INTJs can see the advantages of happy friends and would act to make them so...
> 
> You missed the why again :laughing:
> 
> ...


wow I suck at grammar (that is my reaction on being corrected lol). I'm not sure why I use short sentences. I've noticed in my creative writing that I find dialogue much easier to write than descriptions. Writing descriptions is a little boring. 

My true reaction to being corrected is that I feel a little embarrassed at how appalling my grammar is, even after checking it so much! I suppose that's why I'm such a perfectionist, because I don't want anyone to make assumptions about me based on my grammar, punctuation and spelling.

I've never thought of myself as being a 'doer'...I usually just go with the flow. Although at my last place of work, once I had settled into my role, I pretty much sorted out all of the procedures and wrotes lists of instructions on how to do things. It was a mess when I started there and I hated the thought of someone else taking over my role having to put up with that. It was quite enjoyable sorting everything out. 

Another reason for not thinking I'm extrovert is that I need lots of time alone to reflect on things. Being around people all the time makes me irritable and drains me. I also find it difficult to open up to people about my inner most thoughts and feelings, even to my own family.

Have you come to any conclusions on what my type could be? I have had INFP and ISFP suggested to me. I had a look at ISFJ and related found that I related to that description too. It's all very confusing!


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I've noticed in my creative writing that I find dialogue much easier to write than descriptions. Writing descriptions is a little boring.


Sounds F - people focused, where descriptions are more factual and T like.



umbrellasky said:


> Another reason for not thinking I'm extrovert is that I need lots of *time alone to reflect on things. Being around people all the time makes me irritable and drains me. *


*You're still focusing on the social side of extroversion. You really are attached to your I :laughing: If you're an E you will be a P, your main judging function will still be introverted but ideas will come from outside... That is assuming you follow the model using your primary function being backed up by the secondary not the tertiary of course.



umbrellasky said:



I also find it difficult to open up to people about my inner most thoughts and feelings, even to my own family.

Click to expand...

edit - corrected Fe is often associated with expressing personal feelings so this fits well. end edit



umbrellasky said:



My true reaction to being corrected is that I feel a little embarrassed at how appalling my grammar is, even after checking it so much! I suppose that's why I'm such a perfectionist, because I don't want anyone to make assumptions about me based on my grammar, punctuation and spelling.

Click to expand...

You are aware how many errors I found? One, and that wasn't grammar it was a valid word out by just one letter! I'm also a perfectionist though, so I have an understanding of the problem but I have no idea if it's the same understanding you have. I'd suggest the perfectionism is related to the inability to express yourself too - you would love to but fear you will fail to be clear or convincing enough and be judged down for it? Or maybe you're reluctant to because you don't have a rigid view of the world? This may well be my Fi projecting onto you, so feel free to argue. Or if you'd prefer trying to explain why you have problems expressing yourself feel free to PM me (I'm assuming you wont write about this here for fear of mass judgment, but when writing something out I learn more about myself than just thinking it so it might help. Feel free to post it here too, if you are feeling brave :happy



umbrellasky said:



Have you come to any conclusions on what my type could be?

Click to expand...

:laughing: the only person who can decide is you. You really need to think about how far back you've been judging people against your view of "right" compared to how often you've judged stuff based on cold logic, which is very much easier said than done. Then which you have been more keen to tell people what to do based on.

Also we need some more about your information gathering rather than judging. Do you like to discuss your ideas before deciding what's "true" or do you make a decision then try to convince someone you are right? Do you ever argue for the side you probably don't believe in, just to get more support for what you think you do?*


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Sounds F - people focused, where descriptions are more factual and T like.
> 
> You're still focusing on the social side of extroversion. You really are attached to your I :laughing: If you're an E you will be a P, your main judging function will still be introverted but ideas will come from outside... That is assuming you follow the model using your primary function being backed up by the secondary not the tertiary of course.


I suppose I'm attached to the _I_ because I thought at least I knew that about myself :laughing:



asmit127 said:


> Fi is often associated with expressing personal feelings so I'm somewhat shocked by this.


I suppose I'm going by what my family have said to me about this. They say that they don't know much about me and that the opinions I express are never my own. I have opinions of my own but I'm scared to share them because I might be wrong, or someone might express a better argument and make me look stupid. So I wait until I know everything about a subject before setting myself in stone. 



asmit127 said:


> You are aware how many errors I found? One, and that wasn't grammar it was a valid word out by just one letter! I'm also a perfectionist though, so I have an understanding of the problem but I have no idea if it's the same understanding you have. * I'd suggest the perfectionism is related to the inability to express yourself too - you would love to but fear you will fail to be clear or convincing enough and be judged down for it? Or maybe you're reluctant to because you don't have a rigid view of the world?* This may well be my Fi projecting onto you, so feel free to argue. Or if you'd prefer trying to explain why you have problems expressing yourself feel free to PM me (I'm assuming you wont write about this here for fear of mass judgment, but when writing something out I learn more about myself than just thinking it so it might help. Feel free to post it here too, if you are feeling brave :happy


A bit of both. My past experience with trying to express myself verbally is that no one is listening, or I get talked over by people who are supposed to be my friends. So instead I used to be a bit of a joker amongst my friends because the only way to get their attention was to act like an idiot. This is why I prefer one to one friendships where I can have a proper conversation with someone.

I'm not sure if I have a rigid view of the world. I fee like I'm constantly learning new things about myself and about the world around me that to have a rigid view seems silly because things are changing all the time. 




asmit127 said:


> Also we need some more about your information gathering rather than judging. Do you like to discuss your ideas before deciding what's "true" or do you make a decision then try to convince someone you are right? Do you ever argue for the side you probably don't believe in, just to get more support for what you think you do?


My brother is the person I discuss my ideas with. Sometimes he will give me feedback but most of the time he just sits there whilst I ramble on and eventually come to my own conclusions. I think talking about ideas out loud helps me to organise them. 

I don't think I've ever argued for a side I don't believe in. I might have looked at both sides to see which has the better argument and I often refer back and forth between the two to see if I have missed anything important or anything that might change which side I'm on.

If it is an argument between two people I will try to get each person to see each others point of view even if I know which side I'm on.

There are some subjects that I have a very strong opinion about like fox hunting and no one can change my view on that. I can understand that farmers need to protect their livestock, I just don't see why they have to go out hunting foxes on land where there is no livestock, and the foxes they are killing have done nothing wrong. If a fox kills your livestock then either make your fields more secure or go out and kill that fox, do not turn it into a sport that happens every year where innocent foxes are killed for doing nothing. (I don't know if adding my opinion is relevent, but I thought I'd add it anyway just in case it helps).


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Fi is often associated with expressing personal feelings so I'm somewhat shocked by this.


I was wrong - it's Fe that talks about such things so I've corrected that post.



Psilo said:


> The Form of the Inferior - ITPs - Typology Central
> 
> *Emotionalism*
> 
> ...


So that's another tick for Fi. I'd suggest you definitely aren't an INFJ :happy:



umbrellasky said:


> I suppose I'm going by what my family have said to me about this. They say that they don't know much about me and that the opinions I express are never my own. I have opinions of my own but I'm scared to share them because I might be wrong, or someone might express a better argument and make me look stupid. So I wait until I know everything about a subject before setting myself in stone.
> ...
> I'm not sure if I have a rigid view of the world. I fee like I'm constantly learning new things about myself and about the world around me that to have a rigid view seems silly because things are changing all the time.
> ...
> ...


Openess to possibilities and discussing ideas to clarify is N or S e, I think as it's theoretical it's more N but still looking into the N/S divide for myself. I'm pretty sure you are an IXFP from what you've said though. If what you have said is actually the truth... (Ne has a habit of expressing ideas to test them, and might be so open to ideas you don't know the truth without lots of self analysis) I was given this link this morning and found it interesting, do you relate more to the INxP or ISxP? Tertiary Temptation



umbrellasky said:


> There are some subjects that I have a very strong opinion about like fox hunting and no one can change my view on that. I can understand that farmers need to protect their livestock, I just don't see why they have to go out hunting foxes on land where there is no livestock*,* and the foxes they are killing have done nothing wrong. If a fox kills your livestock then either make your fields more secure or go out and kill that fox, do not turn it into a sport that happens every year where innocent foxes are killed for doing nothing. (I don't know if adding my opinion is relevent, but I thought I'd add it anyway just in case it helps).


Proving you aren't joking about having strong opinions isn't a bad thing, but I'd hope you weren't lying anyway so it wasn't really required :happy: What I did notice was a sentence with two commas in it - and one of them shouldn't be there (the one after the second livestock) :crazy: I wonder if you did the long sentence consciously to show you can but it's really unnatural to you or if you are just so sure of your views on the subject you didn't feel the need to proof read it. If I were to make a mistake it would be the latter. This is not a criticism, but an observation - it did not disrupt your point so was not a problem :happy:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

I take it that because PerC threw a tantrum we've lost some of our hard work from the weekend? *sigh* I cannot remember what my last entry was. :frustrating:


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I take it that because PerC threw a tantrum we've lost some of our hard work from the weekend? *sigh* I cannot remember what my last entry was. :frustrating:


I have them all in my email and can paste them here when I find the time. Maybe one of you have them saved in your email too?


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

penchant said:


> I have them all in my email and can paste them here when I find the time. Maybe one of you have them saved in your email too?


*wipes brow* that's cool. I don't have them in my email because I turned that function off...my inbox gets too full as it is :laughing:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

penchant said:


> I have them all in my email and can paste them here when I find the time.


That would be useful, thanks :happy:



umbrellasky said:


> *wipes brow* that's cool. I don't have them in my email because I turned that function off...my inbox gets too full as it is :laughing:


Turned it off? I don't remember doing so but don't have it switched on either... 

Anyway, I remember one interesting thing from the last post - you thought I would like SAW. I would be very interested in how you came to this conclusion - in as much detail as possible. You have done some "data gathering" and made a decision based on it, should be perfect to analyse :happy:


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

Apparently I don't have all of it for some reason. But here's what I have (in separate posts...)


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

*by kateykinz @ Nov 21, 12.27am
*
***************
Umbrellasky - don't rule out INFJ. First off, I would have reacted in EXACTLY the same way as you in college about the bullying thing. Nowadays I would perhaps spend a bit more time trying to persuade the friends to act on their own behalf, but if they didn't and the situation wasn't resolving itself then I would still jump in on their behalf and do what you did. It is a common thing for INFJs to kick up a storm about something that pushes a button that is particularly sensitive to them, especially if it means fighting on behalf of somebody else, rather than for yourself. Hence the name "protectors" - we feel the need to protect those who cannot or will not protect themselves, but we're pretty sucky at getting the kind of motivation to protect ourselves, because we are Fe users opposed to Fi users.

Secondly, I have a lot of trouble communicating my innermost feelings to other people, and again that seems to be a common theme on the INFJ forum, as you probably know. Sure, people can get an idea of how I feel and I'm not afraid to show it, it's just that my feelings are likely so complex and contradictory that they are often inexplicable to myself, let alone other people. As I feel the need to analyze them deeply to find out where they came from and what they mean, I won't try to communicate them unless I am absolutely sure about what it is I'm feeling. If pushed to share them, I will often give some approximation of the feeling, rather than the whole kit and caboodle. I think this comes from Fe being auxillary, so nothing that is expressed comes out until it is analyzed to death by Ni first. The quote that Asmit used to rule out Fe should not really be used as a reference point for that, as it alludes to the ease of communication of feelings for dominant Fe users, not auxillary Fe users.

Thirdly, I'm totally with you on the fox-hunting issue too. I can understand the debate from the fox's point of view, and from the farmers point of view, and my point of view lies midway between them. The fox is just living, it has no idea what theft or murder or land ownership is, it's just following its primal nature and should not be blamed for its actions. The farmer has the right to defend his possessions and livelihood and territory so should be able to shoot the fox that kills his livestock. But the farmer is an educated and evolved man, and therefore should not use the fox's destruction of his possessions as an excuse to go one step further and persecute all foxes in the name of sport / culture. In other words, the farmer, having the ability to empathise with the animals, should take the moral high ground. Therefore I don't agree with fox-hunting. I think that is very much Fe talking - the morality of the action is decided upon only by referencing the external data and taking into consideration the evolution of our culture. In my opinion there can be no morality without society - everyone would just do what they want. Fi, on the other hand would say either "Killing animals is cruel, unnecessary and inhumane. It is wrong. Fox hunting is bad" or "While I don't necessarily like the idea of it, I totally respect the farmer's right to do what he wants - there is no moral right or wrong here." (or, of course, "There's nothing wrong with killing animals, they are beneath us and have no rights afforded to them").


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

*by asmit127 @ Nov 21, 3.08am*

First what's with the exclamation marks?


---Quote (Originally by kateykinz)---
umbreallasky - don't rule out INFJ
---End Quote---
Absolutely, I'm only guessing what's going on in your mind and am far from confident. We are still discussing only a very small part of your life too :happy:


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I find it hard to relate to just a description I need it to be applied to an actual event.
---End Quote---
I'm not sure how this fits with being an INFJ, but intuitives are usually good at imagining things where sensors focus on what actually is/was. Have you looked into temperments? I've got you pegged as a concrete utilitarian because you "went behind your friends backs" to get results and claim to not talk about emotions, but you may know better :happy: Four Temperaments (Keirsey Temperament Website - Overview of the Four Temperaments)


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
Especially the bit where it mentions 'integrity' I think integrity is important and I do not like being accused of being a liar or of doing something I haven't done.
---End Quote---
Are you thinking of integrity in the same way as Nova? You seem to be fearing the judgment of others rather than yourself?


---Quote (Originally by Nova)---
Fi goes beyond people and 'what I like'. It's almost aligned with conscience (either going with it or against it). An inner authority of sorts that paves morality; 'what is good', 'what ought be' and what is more important or worthy than other things. ... I don't just have values, "I must become them". There's a tug of integrity; if I don't align with what I am guided with within, I must answer to my conscience (a conscience which reacts with shame among other negative consequences). Integrity to this internal self or super ego is important.
---End Quote---

---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I was brought up to treat all animals fairly. Fox hunting just seems cruel to me and I can't understand why anyone would get any enjoyment out of murdering an innocent animal. The same with bull fighting where they end up spearing the animal. It sickens me. How can they inflict pain on something like that? How can the audience find it amusing?
---End Quote---
Could this be Se, taking on the already existing views of others as your own? Without the first sentence no, but adding it completely changes my interpretation especially as you put it before all your personal reasoning. What is your view on horror movies?


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I don't, they start off fun but when I can't work them out it just frustrates me and I give up.
---End Quote---
So you don't have to become at least competent at doing everything you try? How do you balance that with perfectionism?


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

*by umbrellasky @ Nov 21, 12.53pm*

---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
First what's with the exclamation marks?
---End Quote---
Are you asking me this? I have a habit of using them when I'm feeling excited or enthusiastic about something...I can't help it, I feel the need to show my enthusiasm :laughing: I don't know why...perhaps to excite the person reading it..


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
Absolutely, I'm only guessing what's going on in your mind and am far from confident. We are still discussing only a very small part of your life too :happy:

I'm not sure how this fits with being an INFJ, but intuitives are usually good at imagining things where sensors focus on what actually is/was. Have you looked into temperments? I've got you pegged as a concrete utilitarian because you "went behind your friends backs" to get results and claim to not talk about emotions, but you may know better :happy: Four Temperaments (Keirsey Temperament Website - Overview of the Four Temperaments)
---End Quote---
I feel torn between As Concrete Cooperators, Guardians; Abstract Cooperators, Idealists and As Concrete Utilitarians, Artisans. I can see myself in all of them. I'll bold the parts that apply to me:

As Concrete Cooperators, Guardians speak mostly of their duties and responsibilities, of what they can keep an eye on and take good care of, and they're* careful to obey the laws, follow the rules, and respect the rights of others.* 

As Abstract Cooperators, Idealists speak mostly of *what they hope for* and imagine might be possible for people, and they want to* act in good conscience, always trying to reach their goals without compromising their personal code of ethics.* 


As Concrete Utilitarians, Artisans speak mostly about what they see right in front of them, about what they can get their hands on, and they will do whatever works, whatever gives them a quick, effective payoff, even if they have to bend the rules. 

For this last one I wasn't sure what did or didn't apply to me. I don't know if the following event might help with this:

In my creative writing class the other day we were asked to get into small groups and were given a list of instructions. We were given the following scenario:

You go caving in the Cheddar Gorge with a group of 5 people and 1 guide you have never met before when the entrance to your cave collapses. You do not know if you guide is dead under the rubble or trapped on the other side. How are you going to escape?

You must first individually list what you will do and then discuss your ideas with a group.

I listed pretty obvious things such as: check to see if everyone is all right, does anyone have a light, check to see if the rubble can be removed safely - if not then see if there is another way out etc.

When my group talked about our ideas we all have pretty much the same thing. However as the tutor went around the rest of the class there were some pretty crazy ideas coming out such as:

One person said that they would eat their way out because the name of the cave 'Cheddar' Gorge made them think it was made of cheese.

Another group said they would stay in the same place and wait for help to come to them and whilst they are waiting they would play games. 

I thought my ideas were so boring! The tutor said our group were very 'military' in our approach. 



---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
Are you thinking of integrity in the same way as Nova? You seem to be fearing the judgment of others rather than yourself?
---End Quote---
Probably not...I find these descriptions confusing and I misunderstand them, hence why I can never choose what applies to me. I suppose I do fear other peoples judgements, I like to be liked. 


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
Could this be Se, taking on the already existing views of others as your own? Without the first sentence no, but adding it completely changes my interpretation especially as you put it before all your personal reasoning. What is your view on horror movies?
---End Quote---
I can't stand horror movies. They are either predictable and aimed at teenagers, or are too violent and I just don't see the point in spending time watching something that I don't enjoy and that isn't going to help me learn anything. I also find some of the scary, the supernatural ones in particular. I don't know why, they just creep me out. I like films that leaving me thinking about life and death in a different way. Or are uplifting and leave me feeling happy. 


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
So you don't have to become at least competent at doing everything you try? How do you balance that with perfectionism?
---End Quote---
It depends if I care enough about it. Maths and puzzles I don't really care about so I don't feel so bad not being competent at it. I haven't always been like this though. I tried really hard at Maths in school and was determined to pass the course and I did. I found it very frustrating and I can remember crying a lot because I just didn't 'get' it. Even today if somone asks me to work something out for them I panic a little bit inside, but I'm more open to telling people not to come to me if they want help working out a sum. 

Anything creative: music, art and writing, I expect to be good at. So if I'm not good at something within the arts then it upsets me because art is the one thing that I'm sure of, the one thing I can't fail at because then I'll have nothing.


----------



## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

*by asmit127 @ 4.45pm*

---Quote (Originally by penchant)---
Ok, I see the point about INFP now. But INFP/INFJ? Hmm... :mellow: Sorry, don't let me interrupt you...
---End Quote---
Are you really that sure on the N/S? Fi/Fe maybe, but I'm really not sold on the N. Please do interrupt - more opinions cannot be a bad thing :happy:



---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
I have a habit of using [exclamation marks] when I'm feeling excited or enthusiastic about something...I can't help it, I feel the need to show my enthusiasm :laughing: I don't know why...perhaps to excite the person reading it..
---End Quote---
So, you aren't really passionate about foxes? You didn't use any there... Or maybe you were in someway frustrated that I didn't share my views on the subject, and hoped by being more enthusiastic I would? 


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
As Concrete Cooperators, Guardians speak mostly of their duties and responsibilities, of what they can keep an eye on and take good care of, and they're *careful to obey the laws, follow the rules, and respect the rights of others*.
---End Quote---
You thought going behind your friends back to get help was respecting them? Or maybe this act was just out of character for you, which would make it a bad think to be trying to type yourself on...


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
I feel torn between As Concrete Cooperators, Guardians; Abstract Cooperators, Idealists and As Concrete Utilitarians, Artisans. I can see myself in all of them.
---End Quote---
There were longer explanations above covering abstract/concrete communication and utilitarian/cooperative action, you're supposed to pick one of each and then look below to see what it matches to. Did you skip the top? >From what you've bolded you want to be a cooperator, which is what appears to be "nice" but don't forget this isn't about what you want to be but what you are.


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
You go caving in the Cheddar Gorge
---End Quote---
I got excited at this, thinking you lived near me but

---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
One person said that they would eat their way out because the name of the cave 'Cheddar' Gorge made them think it was made of cheese.
---End Quote---
Suggests otherwise. They were right though, the cheese comes from a small town near the caves :happy:

Anyway, that's rather off topic...


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
I listed pretty obvious things such as: check to see if everyone is all right, does anyone have a light, check to see if the rubble can be removed safely - if not then see if there is another way out etc.

I thought my ideas were so boring! The tutor said our group were very 'military' in our approach.
---End Quote---
I know it's a mean stereotype, but isn't boring what Ns say about Ss way of thinking? You wouldn't be questioning why the cave collapsed or imagining a higher power testing you, you'd be straight on to the practicalities of the situation. 


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
Another group said they would stay in the same place and wait for help to come to them and whilst they are waiting they would play games.
---End Quote---
A whole group managed to come to this delusional answer? What games can they play in the dark, and if they're going to stay there why not try digging out first :laughing: Though this was creative writing not survival skills, so maybe they were trying to be funny...


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
Probably not...I find these descriptions confusing and I misunderstand them, hence why I can never choose what applies to me.
---End Quote---
OK, simpler language needed :happy: 

Fi is about knowing for yourself what is good/evil or right/wrong. If you do something while alone that no-one will find out about that you consider "bad" you will judge yourself. Like accidentally kicking your pet rabbit across the room (sounds nasty, but I do this quite often - he runs where my foot is going!). The rabbit is fine, no-one saw you do it to tell you off or dislike you for being cruel to animals yet you would still feel bad for not living up to your expectations of caring for the rabbit. This example would probably show the Fi in most people, but you need to think about bigger things in the same way. Sorry I don't have any useful examples :mellow:


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
I can't stand horror movies. They are either predictable and aimed at teenagers, or are too violent and I just don't see the point in spending time watching something that I don't enjoy and that isn't going to help me learn anything. I also find some of them scary, the supernatural ones in particular. I don't know why, they just creep me out. I like films that leave me thinking about life and death in a different way, or are uplifting and leave me feeling happy.
---End Quote---
So you have a moral problem when it comes to people enjoying the suffering of animals but not people watching people suffering in films? You don't like it, but there's nothing about "how can anyone like it". What do your parents think of horror I wonder? Or your animal loving friends?


---Quote (Originally by umbrellasky)---
It depends if I care enough about it. Maths and puzzles I don't really care about so I don't feel so bad not being competent at it. I haven't always been like this though. I tried really hard at Maths in school and was determined to pass the course and I did. I found it very frustrating and I can remember crying a lot because I just didn't 'get' it. Even today if somone asks me to work something out for them I panic a little bit inside, but I'm more open to telling people not to come to me if they want help working out a sum. 

Anything creative: music, art and writing, I expect to be good at. So if I'm not good at something within the arts then it upsets me because art is the one thing that I'm sure of, the one thing I can't fail at because then I'll have nothing.
---End Quote---
So you aren't a complete perfectionist (lucky you :happy. This sounds like Te to me, you know what you're good at and your limitations. In every INTJ (Te dominant) profile there is something along the lines of "they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know." You do creative, you don't do maths - fair enough :happy:


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> That would be useful, thanks :happy:
> 
> Turned it off? I don't remember doing so but don't have it switched on either...
> 
> Anyway, I remember one interesting thing from the last post - you thought I would like SAW. I would be very interested in how you came to this conclusion - in as much detail as possible. You have done some "data gathering" and made a decision based on it, should be perfect to analyse :happy:


Lol! I have no idea what made me think you liked SAW...hmm...I bet I'm wrong!

Crikey I really don't have a clue what made me say that...maybe because I think your a T and errm your a guy? and my brother is a T and he likes SAW? I don't know...but then again I'm pretty sure his girlfriend is a Feeler and she likes SAW so that doesn't really work.

You said something about having ideas about why I disliked those kinds of films and why she likes them but doesn't like Slumdog...and I think you said something about knowing a information about the creators of the SAW films?? So that made me think that you must have either watched them or are interested in the psychology behind them? Or did I just invent that?

So...do you like SAW?? :laughing:


----------



## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

*by umbrellasky @ Nov 21, 6.24pm*

So, you aren't really passionate about foxes? You didn't use any there... Or maybe you were in someway frustrated that I didn't share my views on the subject, and hoped by being more enthusiastic I would? [/quote]

Hmm I think maybe I felt that I should 'lower the tone' for this thread lol. 


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
You thought going behind your friends back to get help was respecting them? Or maybe this act was just out of character for you, which would make it a bad think to be trying to type yourself on...
---End Quote---
I think most of the time I won't act on someone elses behalf, instead I will guide them and expect them to do it themselves. I think the example above is a situation where I knew that my friends weren't going to seek help so I decided to do it for them. 

I asked my brother if he thought the way I acted was out of character and he said "no it wasn't out of character for you" and I asked "why?" and he said "because you're a quiet upriser" and I said "quiet upriser?" and he said "Yeah, it was against what you believe so you acted. Quietly. You do things quietly without people noticing."


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
There were longer explanations above covering abstract/concrete communication and utilitarian/cooperative action, you're supposed to pick one of each and then look below to see what it matches to. Did you skip the top? >From what you've bolded you want to be a cooperator, which is what appears to be "nice" but don't forget this isn't about what you want to be but what you are.
---End Quote---
I didn't skip the top I breezed through it lol. Ok I'll read it again properly this time.

I would say I'm more abstract because I like to talk about religion and the possibilities of there being a God etc and about evolution and the universe. I also find conspiracy theories quite interesting to talk about. I don't know if this counts as abstract? 

In day to day life I will talk about concrete things because most abstract things are not appropriate for the situations I find myself in. Unless I come across somene who is more open with their ideas then I will join in. I enjoy talking about abstract things. 

This is so difficult. Perhaps I speak concretly and think abstractly? Is that possible haha. 

I asked my brother and he said I'm a bit of both. Grr even he can't help me. He then said perhaps more of the first one 'concrete'. 

The second part: Utilitarian vs. Cooperative

I'd say I'm more Cooperative. I follow rules. For example when I'm driving I keep to the speed limit and I keep to the 'rules of the road'. I drive the correct way around a car park even if it is empty. My brother once said to me "why didn't you just go out the other entrance? It was closer." So now I will go the 'wrong' way out of a car park if it's not busy. It feels odd but gets easier the more I do it.

I'd say I'm a very agreeable person that does what she's asked to do. Never rebels and never gets into trouble... 



---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
I got excited at this, thinking you lived near me but
Suggests otherwise. They were right though, the cheese comes from a small town near the caves :happy:

Anyway, that's rather off topic...
---End Quote---
So you live in Somerset? I live in Dorset so not that far away. :laughing:


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
I know it's a mean stereotype, but isn't boring what Ns say about Ss way of thinking? You wouldn't be questioning why the cave collapsed or imagining a higher power testing you, you'd be straight on to the practicalities of the situation.
---End Quote---
In general I'm the sort of person that is happy for others to take the lead but I've often found that in a 'panic' situation I'm able to keep a level head and get things sorted. 


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
A whole group managed to come to this delusional answer? What games can they play in the dark, and if they're going to stay there why not try digging out first :laughing: Though this was creative writing not survival skills, so maybe they were trying to be funny...
---End Quote---
Yeah a whole group...there were 5 of them. Another group even suggest cannibalism if there were stuck in there for a while...We were being shown how we can work in a team for one of our assignments where we have to work in a group. And there are a few people in my class who like to think they are 'funny' when they are just silly... 

OK, simpler language needed :happy: 



---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
Fi is about knowing for yourself what is good/evil or right/wrong. If you do something while alone that no-one will find out about that you consider "bad" you will judge yourself. Like accidentally kicking your pet rabbit across the room (sounds nasty, but I do this quite often - he runs where my foot is going!). The rabbit is fine, no-one saw you do it to tell you off or dislike you for being cruel to animals yet you would still feel bad for not living up to your expectations of caring for the rabbit. This example would probably show the Fi in most people, but you need to think about bigger things in the same way. Sorry I don't have any useful examples :mellow:
---End Quote---
Thanks, that's much easier to understand. I would definitely feel bad if I hurt my cat by accident...and it has happened. Even when my family aren't looking, I feel awful.

I can't think of any bigger things in the same way either. I will have a think about it. 


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
So you have a moral problem when it comes to people enjoying the suffering of animals but not people watching people suffering in films? You don't like it, but there's nothing about "how can anyone like it". What do your parents think of horror I wonder? Or your animal loving friends?
---End Quote---
Oh I definitely think "How can anyone like it?" My brothers girlfriend couldn't watch Slumdog Millionaire all the way through because when it got to the point where that boy was being blinded she walked out of the room. Yet she will quiet happily watch the SAW movies. I don't get it. I found the scene in Slumdog very upsetting but I could still watch the rest of the film. I can't watch SAW because I think it is sick and the creators must be sick in the head to have come up with the ideas!


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
So you aren't a complete perfectionist (lucky you :happy. This sounds like Te to me, you know what you're good at and your limitations. In every INTJ (Te dominant) profile there is something along the lines of "they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they don't know." You do creative, you don't do maths - fair enough :happy:
---End Quote---
I think because I'm such a perfectionist I've had to tell myself that I have limitations just so I don't get so upset and stuck on things. This doesn't always work though. 

However I'm not completely like that Te description. Even if I'm not sure about something and someone asks for help I'll state that I don't know much about it but I'll still try and help.


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks @penchant! :laughing:


----------



## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

*by asmit127 @ Nov 21, 9.09pm*


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
Hmm I think maybe I felt that I should 'lower the tone' for this thread lol.
---End Quote---
I have no idea what you mean by this, the exclamation marks were grammatically correct :mellow:


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I think most of the time I won't act on someone elses behalf *without their knowledge*, instead I will guide them and expect them to do it themselves.
---End Quote---
the bold would be the important part - is it more appropriate without it? Nothing wrong with doing things on someone's behalf, if they want you to. To do it because you know it's what they need would be disregarding their wishes, which goes against social etiquette.


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
"Yeah, it was against *what you believe* so you acted."
---End Quote---
So your brother thinks you use Fi...


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
In day to day life I will talk about concrete things because most abstract things are not appropriate for the situations I find myself in. Unless I come across someone who is more open with their ideas then I will join in. I enjoy talking about abstract things.

I would say I'm more abstract because I like to talk about religion and the possibilities of there being a God etc and about evolution and the universe. I also find conspiracy theories quite interesting to talk about. I don't know if this counts as abstract?
---End Quote---
I've just had a look back through your posts here where there are plenty of people interested in discussing the abstract, the only thread in the first two pages is about telepathy. You did post in a thread about God too, so you aren't lying :laughing: I think you're right about thinking abstract but talking concrete, but you say you have found people offline to discuss the important things in life with? Is it easier when you can see a confused face, so know you need to clarify what you're saying?


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
So you live in Somerset? I live in Dorset so not that far away. :laughing:
---End Quote---
That I do :happy: I've looked and laughed at the meeting thread a couple of times, the only member not requiring a flight was in Scotland! I knew there had to be some southerners hiding somewhere, they just didn't post in that thread (and nor did I, so I can't complain :crazy


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I would definitely feel bad if I hurt my cat by accident...and it has happened. Even when my family aren't looking, I feel awful.
---End Quote---
What about if the cat wasn't actually hurt? Would that make you feel less bad?


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I can't think of any bigger things in the same way either. I will have a think about it.
---End Quote---
This would be abstract thought, I can only wish you luck.


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
Oh I definitely think "How can anyone like it?" My brothers girlfriend couldn't watch Slumdog Millionaire all the way through because when it got to the point where that boy was being blinded she walked out of the room. Yet she will quiet happily watch the SAW movies. I don't get it. I found the scene in Slumdog very upsetting but I could still watch the rest of the film. I can't watch SAW because I think it is sick and the creators must be sick in the head to have come up with the ideas!
---End Quote---
How would you like me to respond to this were it not written in a thread typing you? I can think of giving my view on the film makers, giving some thoughts on why your sister can('t) watch what you can('t), giving my views on the films or supporting your views (regardless of whether I agree). We need more on your data gathering :happy:


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
I think because I'm such a perfectionist I've had to tell myself that I have limitations just so I don't get so upset and stuck on things. This doesn't always work though.
---End Quote---
I like this approach, might have to give it a go...


---Quote (Originally by umbreallasky)---
However I'm not completely like that Te description. Even if I'm not sure about something and someone asks for help I'll state that I don't know much about it but I'll still try and help.
---End Quote---
Because you aren't an INTJ :happy: The other alternative is Ti, which in INTPs can lead them to believe they can do anything because they vaguely understand the theory, but again that's not you. All your willingness to try anyway says is that you are a nice helpful person, it doesn't say much about your functions.


----------



## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

*by umbrellasky @ Nov 21, 9.56pm*


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
I have no idea what you mean by this, the exclamation marks were grammatically correct :mellow:
---End Quote---
Lol I have no idea what I meant...perhaps I'm feeling a bit self conscious so without realising it I'm being careful about how much I use explanation marks lol. I don't know...just forget I said anything...:mellow:


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
the bold would be the important part - is it more appropriate without it? Nothing wrong with doing things on someone's behalf, if they want you to. To do it because you know it's what they need would be disregarding their wishes, which goes against social etiquette.
---End Quote---
I agree...which is why I never gave the housing department any names or house number lol. So at least when I told my friends what I did I can say that I haven't exposed them, I was merely seeking advice on how I could help them. 


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
I've just had a look back through your posts here where there are plenty of people interested in discussing the abstract, the only thread in the first two pages is about telepathy. You did post in a thread about God too, so you aren't lying :laughing: I think you're right about thinking abstract but talking concrete, but you say you have found people offline to discuss the important things in life with? Is it easier when you can see a confused face, so know you need to clarify what you're saying?
---End Quote---
I find that whenever I try to explain something to someone I try to say it in a way that is easy for them to understand, without coming across as patronising. If I'm have a conversation with a few people and one person can't understand what the other person is trying to say I will either wait until they work each other out or I will step in 'translate' what one person is saying to the other person in simpler terms. I hate it when people don't understand each other.

Did you ever do the Big Personality Test on the BBC? They had a test where you looked at four people's expressions and guess what mood they were and I got all four correct...I don't know if that has anything to do with functions. Where as my brother, who tests as an INTP only got 1 or 2 correct. (I can't remember exactly)


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
That I do :happy: I've looked and laughed at the meeting thread a couple of times, the only member not requiring a flight was in Scotland! I knew there had to be some southerners hiding somewhere, they just didn't post in that thread (and nor did I, so I can't complain :crazy
---End Quote---
Yeah, I didn't post in that thread...didn't even know it existed hehe. 


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
What about if the cat wasn't actually hurt? Would that make you feel less bad?
---End Quote---
How would I know that the cat wasn't hurt? Usually if I accidently tred on him he will yelp. Do you mean if I accidently nudge him or something and he makes no sound? He will usually look a bit shocked and I will stroke him and say sorrow, or even pick him up and cuddle him. But I wouldn't feel as bad because I only nudged him.


---Quote (Originally by asmit127)---
How would you like me to respond to this were it not written in a thread typing you? I can think of giving my view on the film makers, giving some thoughts on why your sister can('t) watch what you can('t), giving my views on the films or supporting your views (regardless of whether I agree). We need more on your data gathering :happy:
---End Quote---
Hmm I have no idea how I'd like you to respond. I'm quite open to you giving your opinion. You probably like the SAW films am I correct? 

I like some dark stuff. A lot of what I write is not particularly happy and for some reason I don't like my stories to have happy endings...even though I quite like a happy ending in a film or a book that I read or watch. I enjoy reading 'dark' stuff like Edgar Allen poe...but SAW just seems quite vulgar to me, I can't see the 'poetry' in it. I get quite involved in things that I watch so it's hard to detach myself. Although I do find Sleepy Hollow slightly amusing...I don't know if that counts. 

I figured that she found Slumdog harder to watch because it's more realistic? She also has a younger brother who is 6 years old, so she probably imagined what it would be like if it happened to her brother.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

and that was all I have... for some odd reason, I apparently don't get emails for every post as I thought I did...

but I guess with the quotes in there all the text should be there anyway...


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Thanks @penchant! :laughing:


you're welcome... :happy:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

penchant said:


> and that was all I have... for some odd reason, I apparently don't get emails for every post as I thought I did...
> 
> but I guess with the quotes in there all the text should be there anyway...


It's certainly alot better than nothing :laughing:

Thanks alot for doing that.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Lol! I have no idea what made me think you liked SAW...hmm...I bet I'm wrong!
> 
> Crikey I really don't have a clue what made me say that...maybe because I think your a T and errm your a guy? and my brother is a T and he likes SAW? I don't know...but then again I'm pretty sure his girlfriend is a Feeler and she likes SAW so that doesn't really work.
> 
> You said something about having ideas about why I disliked those kinds of films and why she likes them but doesn't like Slumdog...and I think you said something about knowing a information about the creators of the SAW films?? So that made me think that you must have either watched them or are interested in the psychology behind them? Or did I just invent that?


:laughing: The previous post is back now, have another read and see if your opinion changes. That "train of thought" was exactly what I was hoping for :happy:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Ok so you said:

"*I can think of giving my view on the film makers*, giving some thoughts on why your sister can('t) watch what you can('t), giving my views on the films or supporting your views (regardless of whether I agree)"

Which suggests you must know something about the film and the film makers? I realise that I said "you probably liked the SAW films", I can't see why I would have thought you 'liked' the films other than from the fact you said that you have your own opinion/view on the film makers, so you must have looked into it. Either from a 'fan' perspective or because you wanted to find out where they got their sick ideas from lol.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Interesting... you take the words at face value yet almost ignore them and go with an idea you've thought up based on what you've experienced (your brother and his girlfriend). Like this?



> involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference





umbrellasky said:


> How would I know that the cat wasn't hurt? Usually if I accidently tred on him he will yelp. Do you mean if I accidently nudge him or something and he makes no sound? He will usually look a bit shocked and I will stroke him and say sorrow, or even pick him up and cuddle him. But I wouldn't feel as bad because I only nudged him.


Maybe a cat is a bit different to a rabbit :laughing: I can literally kick our rabbit 4 foot across the room and most times he doesn't seem to care. Sometimes he squeaks, sometimes he limps for a bit but most times he just carries on and has no reaction at all so I can only assume he isn't hurt. I still feel bad for kicking him though. You seem to have a problem imagining things that you haven't experienced personally (see above function quote), are there any exceptions to this?



umbrellasky said:


> Hmm I have no idea how I'd like you to respond. I'm quite open to you giving your opinion.


I could write a sizeable essay on this, but this thread is supposed to be about typing you so I wont. On a simplistic level I completely agree with you - I have not and will not watch any SAW films due to the gore. Your thoughts on finding yourself wrong? (although you were already open to the possibility so probably invalid...)



umbrellasky said:


> I can't see why I would have thought you 'liked' the films


So you've not been analysing me at all, consciously at least. You could have got the idea I'm pro violence from my not giving any opinion on fox hunting (if I disagreed but was being nice I would say nothing - because that's what you'd do in the situation?) or indeed not giving any opinion on anything else you've mentioned, and not judging any of your behaviour. I just come across as a cold, detached person and cold people like horror? Or maybe I express myself like your brother, so I should be like him in all respects? Sorry, I live in the maybe a little too much :laughing:



umbrellasky said:


> other than from the fact you said that you have your own opinion/view on the film makers, so you must have looked into it.


Interesting assumption, but wrong again :crazy:. I have friends who while trying to convince me to watch one explained the psychology behind it in the hope that would encourage me. From their interpretation (I expect - they don't usually read. But it might have been on an "Extras" DVD...) I have an opinion on the makers, fans and can even suggest the films could make the world a better place. Does that sound crazy to you?


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Interesting... you take the words at face value yet almost ignore them and go with an idea you've thought up based on what you've experienced (your brother and his girlfriend). Like this?
> 
> _involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference.
> 
> You seem to have a problem imagining things that you haven't experienced personally (see above function quote), are there any exceptions to this? _


Yes, that must be what I do. When I try to understand things I try to relate them to something I've either witnessed or experienced myself. 

Any exceptions...hmm...I suppose when I'm writing I have to imagine lots of things I've never experienced. The characters I create will have different personalities so they will react to situations differently.

When I create pieces of artwork they come from my imagination...I close my eyes and picture the scene if there are figures I imagine how they are standing and draw from that. Do these count as exceptions?

If someone is upset or hurt then I imagine how I would have felt in their situation even if I've never experienced what the are going through. Although I would probably try to relate it to something I have gone through that might be similar. 



asmit127 said:


> Maybe a cat is a bit different to a rabbit :laughing: I can literally kick our rabbit 4 foot across the room and most times he doesn't seem to care. Sometimes he squeaks, sometimes he limps for a bit but most times he just carries on and has no reaction at all so I can only assume he isn't hurt. I still feel bad for kicking him though.


Do you make a habit of kicking your rabbit 4 foot across the room? Perhaps that's why he doesn't seem to care, because he's used to it...:tongue:



asmit127 said:


> I could write a sizeable essay on this, but this thread is supposed to be about typing you so I wont. On a simplistic level I completely agree with you - I have not and will not watch any SAW films due to the gore. Your thoughts on finding yourself wrong? (although you were already open to the possibility so probably invalid...)


I suck! Lol, I'm not that bothered that I'm wrong. I'm glad you share the same opinion as me :happy:

This just reminded me of something, I'm not sure why but I'll pop it in here anyway. A few weeks ago my class was divided into two teams and we had to sit facing each other. Each of us had to come up with a truth and a lie. Someone from the other team would say a 'fact' about them that was either true or false and my team had to guess whether what the person said was true or if it was false. I couldn't get a single one right! I thought I was good at 'reading' people but for some reason I just couldn't get any of them correct. I don't know if it was because I was trying too hard? It was really frustrating.



asmit127 said:


> So you've not been analysing me at all, consciously at least. You could have got the idea I'm pro violence from my not giving any opinion on fox hunting (if I disagreed but was being nice I would say nothing - because that's what you'd do in the situation?) or indeed not giving any opinion on anything else you've mentioned, and not judging any of your behaviour. I just come across as a cold, detached person and cold people like horror? Or maybe I express myself like your brother, so I should be like him in all respects? Sorry, I live in the maybe a little too much :laughing:


I never thought you were pro violence. My brother isn't 'pro violence' he just likes those films for some strange reason. He also like to play COD, which could also be accused of bein 'pro violence'. COD and Halo are both games I've played on and off, I quite enjoy playing them. I like the fact that you can jump in and play a short game and then go off and do something else. I've never been very good at playing games that have 'levels' like Fabel, or Tomb Raider. I think they look beautiful visually but when you're playing the game you miss all of that because you're so focused on where you're going and what you're doing...anyway moving on...
*
If I disagreed but was being nice I would say nothing - because that's what you'd do in the situation?*

Your very good at this! If I felt strongly about something, such as fox hunting, then I would say something. However, in most circumstances if I disagree with something I will keep my mouth shut. Or I'd try to give my point of view without saying that I think the other person is wrong. 

_Other than from the fact you said that you have your own opinion/view on the film makers, so you must have looked into it._



asmit127 said:


> Interesting assumption, but wrong again :crazy:. I have friends who while trying to convince me to watch one explained the psychology behind it in the hope that would encourage me. From their interpretation (I expect - they don't usually read. But it might have been on an "Extras" DVD...) I have an opinion on the makers, fans and can even suggest the films could make the world a better place. Does that sound crazy to you?


The films could make the world a better place? Yes that does sound crazy to me. If anything the films will give people ideas on how to torture people!


----------



## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Yes, that must be what I do.


No it's just an option :happy: Don't feel you have to answer these questions straight away, just have them in the back of your mind as you go through a normal day and see if it's true.



umbrellasky said:


> Any exceptions...hmm...I suppose when I'm writing I have to imagine lots of things I've never experienced. The characters I create will have different personalities so they will react to situations differently.
> 
> When I create pieces of artwork they come from my imagination...*I close my eyes and picture the scene* if there are figures I imagine how they are standing and draw from that. Do these count as exceptions?


Maybe, but there's something slightly different in that these are completely imaginary. Perhaps you could put yourself in a situation from one of your stories? 

I'm sure you said there was no scene in your head before and you just "did", but don't worry if you've noticed since then - discussing something makes you more aware of it :happy:



umbrellasky said:


> Do you make a habit of kicking your rabbit 4 foot across the room? Perhaps that's why he doesn't seem to care, because he's used to it... :tongue:


It only happens 2-3 times a year  Poor abused bunny :sad:



umbrellasky said:


> I suck! Lol, I'm not that bothered that I'm wrong.


So no thoughts regarding whether you should be modifying your stereotype male/T behaviour? Or trying to see where me and your brother differ? This goes back to why you thought I'd like it in the first place... Instead you just focused on what's happening at the time. (again, I'm guessing - only you know what's going on in your head so don't take my answers as truth)



umbrellasky said:


> A few weeks ago my class was divided into two teams and we had to sit facing each other. Each of us had to come up with a truth and a lie. Someone from the other team would say a 'fact' about them that was either true or false and my team had to guess whether what the person said was true or if it was false. I couldn't get a single one right! I thought I was good at 'reading' people but for some reason I just couldn't get any of them correct. I don't know if it was because I was trying too hard? It was really frustrating.


Well Fe is usually assosciated with reading people but it could also be Se which being all about the now might be paying close attention and pick up a slight smirk. You liked the idea of Se earlier, yet relating to past experiences is Si... you can't use both often (only one is in your top four functions). You now have to observe in life and see if you were trying too hard or had just believed the INFJ stereotype when it said you could read people. When did you "discover" your were an INFJ anyway?



umbrellasky said:


> I never thought you were pro violence.


Why not?



umbrellasky said:


> COD and Halo are both games I've played on and off, I quite enjoy playing them. I like the fact that you can jump in and play a short game and then go off and do something else.


:shocked: I've only heard of one female COD player, a friend of a friends' mum! From the description of her language she doesn't sound very ladylike. This got me thinking, how tight are your jeans?



umbrellasky said:


> Your very good at this! If I felt strongly about something, such as fox hunting, then I would say something. However, in most circumstances if I disagree with something I will keep my mouth shut.


You have no idea how close I came to saying I was pro fox hunting just to see your reaction. I wrote it three ways but couldn't bring myself to send it as it wasn't true. That is Fi, I'm sure. 

I wonder do you say nothing because you were told not to as a child, because you've caused offense with your views before or out of self protection?



umbrellasky said:


> The films could make the world a better place? Yes that does sound crazy to me. If anything the films will give people ideas on how to torture people!


From what I understand all the victims are criminals who if they truly repent will survive the sadistic traps. It's a strange way of teaching morality but just planting the idea that it could happen might discourage some criminals. On the other side if people are used to seeing gore they will be less squeamish in the wake of an accident or natural disaster. I could go on but it's bedtime now :laughing:


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> No it's just an option :happy: Don't feel you have to answer these questions straight away, just have them in the back of your mind as you go through a normal day and see if it's true.
> 
> Maybe, but there's something slightly different in that these are completely imaginary. Perhaps you could put yourself in a situation from one of your stories?


I suppose when I write a story I think about how I would react to a situation and then either express that through the character or do the complete opposite if the character is different to me. 



asmit127 said:


> I'm sure you said there was no scene in your head before and you just "did", but don't worry if you've noticed since then - discussing something makes you more aware of it :happy:


I think I said that I never planned my artwork. So I don't do initial sketches or or composition ideas/colours I just have an imagine in my mind and draw it from there, tweaking as I go along. 



asmit127 said:


> It only happens 2-3 times a year  Poor abused bunny :sad:


Aww, what's your bunny's name?



asmit127 said:


> So no thoughts regarding whether you should be modifying your stereotype male/T behaviour? Or trying to see where me and your brother differ? This goes back to why you thought I'd like it in the first place... Instead you just focused on what's happening at the time. (again, I'm guessing - only you know what's going on in your head so don't take my answers as truth)


Hmm no I don't if I thought about modifying my behaviour or not. I suppose as I don't know you I based my assumptions on what I do know. I actually don't like it when people assume things about another person based on stereotypes or when they say "typical man" or "typical woman" because we are all individuals. But I guess I still fall into the trap of making my own stereotypes without realising it. 



asmit127 said:


> Well Fe is usually assosciated with reading people but it could also be Se which being all about the now might be paying close attention and pick up a slight smirk. You liked the idea of Se earlier, yet relating to past experiences is Si... you can't use both often (only one is in your top four functions). You now have to observe in life and see if you were trying too hard or had just believed the INFJ stereotype when it said you could read people. When did you "discover" your were an INFJ anyway?


I first discovered I was INFJ when I was about 18 or 19 I think. I went to see a careers person and they gave me a form to fill out and then it told me what I was. But at the time I didn't really take an interest in personality types so I kept the bit of paper and never looked at it again. Than early last year I started taking tests and always came out as INFJ and then left it for a while and then a couple of months ago I started looking into it in more detail. And when I heard that the tests aren't always accurate I decided that I wanted make sure that INFJ was my type. 

_I never thought you were pro violence._



asmit127 said:


> Why not?


Hmm ok maybe 'I never assumed you were pro violence' would have been a better way to say it. Maybe because you felt bad about kicking your rabbit?

Or I just don't get that vibe from you...lol if it's possible to get a 'vibe' across the internet. You seem like a helpful person! But I suppose people can be helpful and pro-violence...




asmit127 said:


> :shocked: I've only heard of one female COD player, a friend of a friends' mum! From the description of her language she doesn't sound very ladylike. This got me thinking, how tight are your jeans?


I don't play it that often, maybe a couples times a year! Usually when me and my two brothers are together over xmas and a couple of other times a year. We play together. I've played online a couple of times. I prefer Halo but I think that's on the XBOX and my brother doesn't have an online subscription as the moment. He prefers COD anyway. 

How tight are my jeans? I'm not sure what you mean by this question? What makes you think I wear jeans? :tongue:



asmit127 said:


> You have no idea how close I came to saying I was pro fox hunting just to see your reaction. I wrote it three ways but couldn't bring myself to send it as it wasn't true. That is Fi, I'm sure.


Oh you should have! That would have been interesting haha. That is exactly what my brother does. He says things he doesn't mean so that he can provoke a reaction from me. He does it all the time either by saying something offensive, even racist, because he knows that I will react to it. And how do I react? I say "Alex!" in a "I can't believe you just said that" tone of voice and give him a disapproving look lol. 



asmit127 said:


> I wonder do you say nothing because you were told not to as a child, because you've caused offense with your views before or out of self protection?


Thats an interesting question, which I cannot answer! No I don't think I was ever told not say anything as a child. I think I've just always been very self concious. As a child I was very quiet and well behaved. Didn't speak unless spoken to sort of thing. Maybe because of being shy I never spoke up because I was worried about being wrong and made to look a fool of so I suppose it was out of self protection. I get embarrassed easily. I much better now that I'm older, the more confident I am the more confortable I feel about speaking about my opinions and views on things. 



asmit127 said:


> From what I understand all the victims are criminals who if they truly repent will survive the sadistic traps. It's a strange way of teaching morality but just planting the idea that it could happen might discourage some criminals. On the other side if people are used to seeing gore they will be less squeamish in the wake of an accident or natural disaster. I could go on but it's bedtime now :laughing:


[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah, I think my brother told me this. It is a strange way of teaching morality.


----------



## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I suppose when I write a story I think about how I would react to a situation and then either express that through the character or do the complete opposite if the character is different to me.


So that's not really much imagination. Does it also show that you are very black/white in your thinking? Either someone acts like you or the opposite, no middle option?



umbrellasky said:


> Aww, what's your bunny's name?


He's called Bracken - don't ask why a small (Netherland dwarf) fluffy bunny is named after a big spiky bush, he's my sisters so she named him :laughing: He's getting old now so has a white would-be beard which looks cute but he wont let me get a photo. he always runs over to nuzzle the camera when you put it low enough :mellow:



umbrellasky said:


> asmit127 said:
> 
> 
> > So no thoughts regarding whether you should be modifying your stereotype *of* male/T behaviour? Or trying to see where me and your brother differ? This goes back to why you thought I'd like it in the first place... Instead you just focused on what's happening at the time. (again, I'm guessing - only you know what's going on in your head so don't take my answers as truth)
> ...


Damn, I missed an of and the sentence was completely different. I didn't expect you to stop stereotyping, but just to modify, if only slightly, whatever box it was you put me in. If that makes any sense...



umbrellasky said:


> Or I just don't get that vibe from you...lol if it's possible to get a 'vibe' across the internet. You seem like a helpful person! But I suppose people can be helpful and pro-violence...


I'm guilty of getting "vibes" from text too, you are hardly the first INFJ/P thread but are the first stranger I've tried to help. But if you got any vibes from me early on in this thread you made them up as I deliberately remained as detached as possible and didn't give any clues to where I stood on things so you didn't adapt and say what you thought I wanted to hear. I got more personal and you agreed with my suggestion (see the first quote in my last post) so it was a good decision :happy: 



umbrellasky said:


> asmit127 said:
> 
> 
> > I've only heard of one female COD player, a friend of a friends' mum! From the description of her language she doesn't sound very ladylike. This got me thinking, how tight are your jeans?
> ...


That was an N test - connecting random thoughts. If you connected the question with the sentence before you might have started talking about preferring skirts because you're a girly girl, but you didn't... It should be said that I'm making these tests up, but I'm sure they prove something :laughing:



umbrellasky said:


> That is exactly what my brother does. He says things he doesn't mean so that he can provoke a reaction from me. He does it all the time either by saying something offensive, even racist, because he knows that I will react to it. And how do I react? I say "Alex!" in a "I can't believe you just said that" tone of voice and give him a disapproving look lol.


Gotta love XNTPs for being able to do this with any topic :happy: So from someone you know that's how you react, what about a stranger? Would you just ignore them rather than disagree, as you suggested previously? Stick to the fox hunting as it's something you truly believe in.



umbrellasky said:


> I much better now that I'm older, the more confident I am the more confortable I feel about speaking about my opinions and views on things.


Would this be more confident believing you are correct or that you really believe in the opinion you hold?



umbrellasky said:


> Oh yeah, I think my brother told me this. It is a strange way of teaching morality.


Indeed it is, but how many people who watch SAW go to church to learn the traditional way? Probably not many...

Oh one other question - how tired were you last night when you last posted on this thread?


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> So that's not really much imagination. Does it also show that you are very black/white in your thinking? Either someone acts like you or the opposite, no middle option?


Oh yeah there must be a middle option, there's always something I can relate to in another person. So I guess when I write characters I must not make them do the complete opposite to me. They are a mixture of different personalities. 



asmit127 said:


> He's called Bracken - don't ask why a small (Netherland dwarf) fluffy bunny is named after a big spiky bush, he's my sisters so she named him :laughing: He's getting old now so has a white would-be beard which looks cute but he wont let me get a photo. he always runs over to nuzzle the camera when you put it low enough :mellow:


That's a pretty cool name, I like names to be unusual :laughing:



asmit127 said:


> Damn, I missed an of and the sentence was completely different. I didn't expect you to stop stereotyping, but just to modify, if only slightly, whatever box it was you put me in. If that makes any sense...


I was thinking earlier about how when I meet new people, even if I've only met them once, I try to imagine what further conversations I might have with them and try to work out what they might say, what their personality is like. I do this a lot! Especially if I meet someone who has made an impact on me. 



asmit127 said:


> I'm guilty of getting "vibes" from text too, you are hardly the first INFJ/P thread but are the first stranger I've tried to help. But if you got any vibes from me early on in this thread you made them up as I deliberately remained as detached as possible and didn't give any clues to where I stood on things so you didn't adapt and say what you thought I wanted to hear. I got more personal and you agreed with my suggestion (see the first quote in my last post) so it was a good decision :happy:


I did notice the detachment at the beginning and I tried to stay 'professional' too hehe. But then I start to think how this thread is all about me and how I want to start to get to know the person analysing me! I had counselling a while back and during the whole session it felt odd only talking about me, I wanted to start asking the councillor questions about her life etc.



asmit127 said:


> That was an N test - connecting random thoughts. If you connected the question with the sentence before you might have started talking about preferring skirts because you're a girly girl, but you didn't... It should be said that I'm making these tests up, but I'm sure they prove something :laughing:


Interesting! I almost replied "I have different styles of jeans some loose some tight..." but then I thought wait a minute, why is he asking me this?



asmit127 said:


> Gotta love XNTPs for being able to do this with any topic :happy: So from someone you know that's how you react, what about a stranger? Would you just ignore them rather than disagree, as you suggested previously? Stick to the fox hunting as it's something you truly believe in.


To my family I'm much more open with my reactions. I don't have any close friends so I can't comment on those. 

Something happened today in my creative writing class. A student was talking about how she felt that we are set too many essays to write instead of being asked to do creative/fictional writing. I disagreed with her because the course is very balanced, for each module we do a creative piece and an essay. I was about to put my hand up and say that I disagree when the lecturer changed the topic so I missed my opportunity. So yes I think I would disagree with a stranger especially if it's about a topic I believe in and feel that I know enough about. 



asmit127 said:


> Would this be more confident believing you are correct or that you really believe in the opinion you hold?


I suppose it would have to be that I know enough about the topic I have my opinion on, so that I can defend my beliefs should the other person start to question them. I have to first feel strongly about the topic, then know enough about it. 



asmit127 said:


> Oh one other question - how tired were you last night when you last posted on this thread?


Very tired! I have an essay due in on Thursday and I'm struggling with it...I have so much to say I can't seem to organise my thoughts and it's doing my head in. I also have a presentation to do on Friday so I'm torn between two things. I can't cope when I have too many things to concentrate on. 

What made you ask? Was it purely because it says I posted at 12pm or were there lots of mistakes in my last post?


----------



## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Oh yeah there must be a middle option, there's always something I can relate to in another person. So I guess when I write characters I must not make them do the complete opposite to me. They are a mixture of different personalities.


Oh good, you'd be a terrible writer if there were only two characters :crazy:



umbrellasky said:


> That's a pretty cool name, I like names to be unusual :laughing:


Sticking to the subject at hand again. No comment on his beard, no request for a photo, no connection to your cat... I take it (s)he has an interesting name too? 



umbrellasky said:


> I did notice the detachment at the beginning and I tried to stay 'professional' too hehe.


I'm still trying :blushed: I have a strange idea that business shouldn't be mixed with pleasure no matter how much I may want to. I'm supposed to be helping you work out a problem...



umbrellasky said:


> But then I start to think how this thread is all about me and how I want to start to get to know the person analysing me! I had counselling a while back and during the whole session it felt odd only talking about me, I wanted to start asking the councillor questions about her life etc.


Well yeah, you started the thread - of course it's about you! I'm not sure it can be called a thread now so much as a conversation though. And it's probably the longest conversation I've ever had in public :laughing: 



umbrellasky said:


> Interesting! I almost replied "I have different styles of jeans some loose some tight..." but then I thought wait a minute, why is he asking me this?


Well you can tell lots about someone from their jeans :laughing: It takes a certain amount of self confidence to wear tight ones for a start, so even if you'd answered the question as you nearly did it would have said something. I like your suspicious nature though :happy:



umbrellasky said:


> I don't have any close friends so I can't comment on those.


What?! You have at least three people you're willing to go to a nightclub with and call "friend" but don't consider them close? What, dare I ask, is the attraction of a nightclub? You don't consider it a place to find a boyfriend, you don't drink excessively, you're not going to enable a friend to and I'd like to think anyone who likes Apocalyptica isn't impressed by the music :laughing: I guess you really like dancing? 



umbrellasky said:


> A student was talking about how she felt that we are set too many essays to write instead of being asked to do creative/fictional writing. I disagreed with her because the course is very balanced, for each module we do a creative piece and an essay. I was about to put my hand up and say that I disagree when the lecturer changed the topic so I missed my opportunity


Once again you are keen to express a logical opinion, not one with any personal belief of right/wrong behind it.

Non random question - is talking about cancer going to upset you?



umbrellasky said:


> Very tired! ... What made you ask? Was it purely because it says I posted at 12pm or were there lots of mistakes in my last post?


There's a problem with this answer - the post with the mistakes was actually written at 2pm :crazy: You probably had a lecture. Or were hungry...



umbrellasky said:


> I have an essay due in on Thursday and I'm struggling with it...I have so much to say I can't seem to organise my thoughts and it's doing my head in. I also have a presentation to do on Friday so I'm torn between two things. I can't cope when I have too many things to concentrate on.


Without any knowledge of what you're writing about or presenting I'm not sure I can help, but if you would like someone to proof read your essay I would happily do that. Or if it's a topic I'd be vaguely familiar with/intereted in I could suggest section titles? Depends how many words it must be too. I'll stop replying so quickly so as not to distract you, not because I've lost interest. You are too nice a person to claim to have no friends, I can't make sense of it


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Sticking to the subject at hand again. No comment on his beard, no request for a photo, no connection to your cat... I take it (s)he has an interesting name too?


Lol I was thinking about commenting on his beard but for some reason I forgot. He sounds like an old man…old rabbit man. I got the impression that you had no photos because he always tries nuzzle your camera? If you do have some I’d love to see them :laughing:

My cat is a he and his name is Gin…he’s a ginger cat so we named him Gin lol not very exciting.



asmit127 said:


> I'm still trying :blushed: I have a strange idea that business shouldn't be mixed with pleasure no matter how much I may want to. I'm supposed to be helping you work out a problem...


You are helping me! :happy: Having a conversation might be a better way to analyse me than by asking me to choose between this and that. I can relate it to my own life much easier this way. 



asmit127 said:


> Well yeah, you started the thread - of course it's about you! I'm not sure it can be called a thread now so much as a conversation though. And it's probably the longest conversation I've ever had in public :laughing:


I think it’s the longest conversation I’ve has in public too. I still keep thinking about whether all of this should be so public? I don’t think I’ve said anything too personal, it’s not like I’ve given my name, number and address away, but I still keep wondering if I should feel uncomfortable about this.

I suppose if we do come to some sort of conclusion it might help other people to read through this thread. 



asmit127 said:


> Well you can tell lots about someone from their jeans :laughing: It takes a certain amount of self confidence to wear tight ones for a start, so even if you'd answered the question as you nearly did it would have said something. I like your suspicious nature though :happy:


Ok, so those guys who wear their jeans below their arses with their underwear hanging out, what does that say about them? Lol I hate seeing it, makes me want to go and yank them up. One of my housemates wears his jeans that way…



asmit127 said:


> What?! You have at least three people you're willing to go to a nightclub with and call "friend" but don't consider them close? What, dare I ask, is the attraction of a nightclub? You don't consider it a place to find a boyfriend, you don't drink excessively, you're not going to enable a friend to and I'd like to think anyone who likes Apocalyptica isn't impressed by the music :laughing: I guess you really like dancing?


I don’t think I’ve ever had ‘close’ friends or a ‘close’ friend, which I describe as someone who you can trust and rely on and reveal intimate details too. I’ve had friends but I always felt a bit like an outsider, so when I left school I never held on to any of the friendships. I am friends with some of them on facebook but that’s about it. My family are my friends haha. 

The friends I go to nightclubs with (or nightclub as it’s the student union we go to. Our university has its own venue within the campus), live in the same house as me and I’ve only known them about 8 weeks. We aren’t ‘close’ but we get along really well and do stuff together, mostly because we have no one else to do stuff with lol. I like to think that maybe a couple of them could be friends for life but deep down I doubt that will happen. 

But yeah I go to nightclubs because I like dancing and depending on the venue, the music. I don't particularly like the music they play at our venue, pretty mainstream stuff. I prefer to dance to trance music. There's something about the atmosphere in a club, it's dark but not too dark and I like the lighting and I feel like I am lost amongst everyone and I don't feel as self conscious. I couldn't do it every night though, I don't even go out once a week, too tiring. 



asmit127 said:


> Non random question - is talking about cancer going to upset you?


No, talking about cancer won’t upset me.



asmit127 said:


> There's a problem with this answer - the post with the mistakes was actually written at 2pm :crazy: You probably had a lecture. Or were hungry...


Oh ok…well I would have been getting ready for a lecture at 3pm so that was probably the reason! I must not have bothered to proof read it.



asmit127 said:


> Without any knowledge of what you're writing about or presenting I'm not sure I can help, but if you would like someone to proof read your essay I would happily do that. Or if it's a topic I'd be vaguely familiar with/intereted in I could suggest section titles? Depends how many words it must be too. I'll stop replying so quickly so as not to distract you, not because I've lost interest. You are too nice a person to claim to have no friends, I can't make sense of it


I think I’m getting a hang of the essay now. It seems to have some structure too it and I feel like I know what I’m doing. I ended up moving onto my bed so that I could have more space for all the books I’m quoting from lol.


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Hi,

I just thought I'd add this in while I'm thinking about it. I just got my last assignment back from being marked and I did not do very well! On my first assignment I had to write an essay analysing a film and I almost got a first, I got 68% out of 100. But the assignment I’ve just collected involved being more creative and playing around with punctuation, grammar, spelling and we also had to write a review and a piece of rhetoric writing. Basically it was a portfolio of work, 4 pieces. My mark for this was 48%...which I am very disappointed about. On the feedback my tutor described one of the pieces as very 'matter of fact' and that I have 'lots of ideas’ and should have ‘experimented a bit more’. 

I seem to be much better at writing essays than writing creatively! Which is a bit disappointing. :frustrating:

I don’t know if this reveals anything about the functions I use?


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

^ I'm not sure about that, but I do want to let you know that I had a huge problem at uni...if I wrote an essay about something I was interested in I would generally get a lower mark than if I wrote an essay about something I wasn't. It would seem that my interest in a topic got in the way of me being able to analyze it objectively and do the best job. However, if I had to write about something I wasn't interested in it obviously bored the crap out of me and made me not want to write it at all - which is where my habit of procrastination reared its ugly head.

I'm not sure if it is related - but maybe you suffer the same thing? Did the creative portfolio mean more to you than the essay analyising the film? Did you enjoy writing it more or less than the essay? Did you put more effort into it, thus overthinking it and possibly making it less freestyle than it would have been if you'd have just let it flow more easily?

I understand why you feel disappointed but try not to let the criticism get to you too much - the mark is just based on your tutor's subjective opinion.

Edit: hope you don't mind me butting in again on your convo!


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> ^ I'm not sure about that, but I do want to let you know that I had a huge problem at uni...if I wrote an essay about something I was interested in I would generally get a lower mark than if I wrote an essay about something I wasn't. It would seem that my interest in a topic got in the way of me being able to analyze it objectively and do the best job. However, if I had to write about something I wasn't interested in it obviously bored the crap out of me and made me not want to write it at all - which is where my habit of procrastination reared its ugly head.
> 
> I'm not sure if it is related - but maybe you suffer the same thing? Did the creative portfolio mean more to you than the essay analyising the film? Did you enjoy writing it more or less than the essay? Did you put more effort into it, thus overthinking it and possibly making it less freestyle than it would have been if you'd have just let it flow more easily?
> 
> ...



I think what you said does relate to me. The essay I'm currently writing is about one of my favourite musicians (Bjork) and at first it was really, really hard for me to get started because I know so much about her and I wanted to make sure that I mentioned all the things that were important to me...and then I remembered that I need to mention all the things that are important, NOT the things important to ME. It's easy to get excited about something you like to write about and then forget about the point you are trying to make. 

I didn't really know what I was doing with the portfolio assignment. It was a new module that the tutors hadn't taught before and I got the impression that even they weren't sure what they were supposed to be teaching us...so you could say that they are partly to blame. I just went long with it and did what I thought was right. I was actually quite pleased with what I had written but I guess it wasn't as good as I thought!

What I find easier about essays is that you don't always need to feel inspired to write them. It's not about being creative, it's about analysing. And I like that there is a structure to essay writing. Where as creative writing is very subjective and not everyone is going to like it. 

I don't think there was anything wrong with my work it just didn't meet the 'criteria'. Basically the tutor said I hadn't used what we were taught in the workshops, but as I said earlier I didn't feel that I got much from the lectures on this particular module. 

Thanks for the support and I definitely don't mind you butting in :laughing: Feel free to contribute to our discussion any time, it's good to hear feedback from different people. :happy:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I got the impression that you had no photos because he always tries nuzzle your camera? If you do have some I’d love to see them


Well I bribed Bracken with some breakfast cereal today and took a picture on my phone - just the one before he finished and ran off. Seems he's not as interested in phones as cameras, maybe he's fascinated by his reflection in the lens...

 



umbrellasky said:


> My cat is a he and his name is Gin…he’s a ginger cat so we named him Gin lol not very exciting.


Not exciting, but not very usual either :happy: And you don't sound too crazy if you go outside and shout for him. Do your artistic skills extend to photography? (incase you miss the point that means I'd like to see your cat :laughing



umbrellasky said:


> You are helping me! :happy: Having a conversation might be a better way to analyse me than by asking me to choose between this and that. I can relate it to my own life much easier this way.


I'm glad you think so, it's certainly a better way of typing than relying on tests. I really need to read some more about the S functions though...



umbrellasky said:


> I think it’s the longest conversation I’ve has in public too. I still keep thinking about whether all of this should be so public? I don’t think I’ve said anything too personal, it’s not like I’ve given my name, number and address away, but I still keep wondering if I should feel uncomfortable about this.
> 
> I suppose if we do come to some sort of conclusion it might help other people to read through this thread.


Yeah, I know lots about you - far more than most of my "friends" - yet I don't even know your first name. It's very strange :laughing: There is no should to it though, thats just your perfectionism talking. It's up to you how much you want to reveal here or if you'd rather move to PMs. If anything the useful to others part has probably passed now - they will see that it's not something you can decide on in an evening no matter how much you'd like to, and hopefully that they don't really know what's going on in their heads :laughing:



umbrellasky said:


> Ok, so those guys who wear their jeans below their arses with their underwear hanging out, what does that say about them? Lol I hate seeing it, makes me want to go and yank them up. One of my housemates wears his jeans that way…


This actually came up in work yesterday, between four of us we couldn't work this strange behaviour out. It was suggested they are all mentally retarded in some way, that they are druggies and didn't notice they had failed to dress properly or they were so keen to show they weren't shoplifters they chose to wear their trousers in a way that made running away impossible. We decided that whatever their motivation anyone who is incapable of getting dressed properly wasn't worth getting to know, which meant we'd never find out the truth behind it. I'm guessing your housemate is none of the above? Might have to re-open the discussion unless you can think of a way to ask without offending him... Can't say I've ever had the urge to pull them up for them though :laughing: You live in a big house - I lived with 5 others at uni, that just meant there was lots of noise. There are only so many genres of music you can mix.



umbrellasky said:


> I don’t think I’ve ever had ‘close’ friends or a ‘close’ friend, which I describe as someone who you can trust and rely on and reveal intimate details too. I’ve had friends but I always felt a bit like an outsider, so when I left school I never held on to any of the friendships. I am friends with some of them on facebook but that’s about it.


Same - school, college, uni... I've landed up with one friend who's known me since primary school and one I went to secondary school with but never spoke to there. Oh, and I don't do facebook - if I didn't bother to keep in contact with them they can't have been that interesting anyway. It's interesting that you've tried to define friendship too. Some people throw the label around so freely, not helped by it's prevalence on facebook. "I saw this person once and didn't hate them, they are my friend" - madness. I have as many friends in Canada (on this site) as here (England) if I don't count you. I've said very little of me though so you cannot have accepted me yet and friendship should be mutual. No offense :crazy:



umbrellasky said:


> But yeah I go to nightclubs because I like dancing and depending on the venue, the music. I don't particularly like the music they play at our venue, pretty mainstream stuff. I prefer to dance to trance music. There's something about the atmosphere in a club, it's dark but not too dark and I like the lighting and I feel like I am lost amongst everyone and I don't feel as self conscious. I couldn't do it every night though, *I don't even go out once a week, too tiring.*


Well there went any possibility of you being a "proper" extrovert then, if there was any doubt. I guess trance music is the least annoying of all club music because at least it goes somewhere and isn't insanely bassy or fast, but I'd hardly call myself a fan. Clubs are usually too loud to talk and I'm not a dancer so they are hardly my favourite destination. Oh, and they are usually too hot...



umbrellasky said:


> I must not have bothered to proof read it.


Hearing this from someone who claims to be a perfectionist always makes me feel good for some reason - it's like proof that you are comfortable talking to me, which when I've been picking your every word apart seems extra strange. Thanks :happy:

So what does a friendly, helpful animal lover think about cancer you were probably thinking? Well not so much the disease itself as the research/treatment - I'm completely against it. This is almost certainly Fi as it's very much my personal belief and goes against the greater good. Animal testing and putting people in microwaves is just not a good thing to do. I doubt you've researched this much, so what is your opinion on mine?



umbrellasky said:


> I think I’m getting a hang of the essay now. It seems to have some structure to it and I feel like I know what I’m doing. I ended up moving onto my bed so that I could have more space for all the books I’m quoting from lol.


Sounds good :happy: A lot of effort at the end of the night before trying to get into bed though :laughing: Is the presentation ready too?


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

have some questions for you umbrella...asmit I'd like you answer these too, please. Some of them may vary depending on situation, but I want to know what you are more regularly in the habit of doing...sober (I'm not sure either of you are big drinkers but I just wanted to put that in there because I know I act totally different when drunk to when I'm sober).

When you are on the Internet do you focus in-depth on one topic, or do you have many browser windows open with different subjects and jump between them often?

Similarly, when you are researching using books, do you stick to one at a time until you have understood it thoroughly and/or made all your notes from it, or do you have several semi-finished books on the go at once?

Are the interests that you choose to pursue totally wide-ranging and unrelated, or do you have fewer interests that you are particularly adept at/interested in? i.e. Jack of all trades, or master of one or two?

When you are indulging your imagination, do you get more and more fanciful as you go along, introducing more and more seemingly unconnected elements and generating possibilities from each of those until you have a whole different world in your head from what you started out with, or do you focus more on one theme, introducing elements until it reaches some kind of conclusion?

When you are talking to someone, does the conversation usually veer off at a tangent very quickly? If it does, do you get excited by going along with the twists and turns or do you tend to stop after a little while and try to get back onto the original topic until it has reached its natural conclusion?

When you were little, did you imagine yourself in all sorts of different careers or was there one particular thing that you wanted to be?

When you were little, did you like to make up games more than play existing games? If so, did you more often make them up from scratch or did you take an existing game that you were bored with and change the rules?

Do you find it hard to reach a decision about what to do with your day, week or life? If yes, is this because there are so many options that you'd like to follow that you can't identify which one would be the best at any given time? Or because you mentally walk yourself through the option and end up discounting it for now because you a) haven't yet got enough information to make a decision on it, or b) have decided that the reality won't be as good as you first imagined it might be, or c) something else?

Does it bother you that I am calling you umbrella and asmit rather than your full usernames?


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> When you are on the Internet do you focus in-depth on one topic, or do you have many browser windows open with different subjects and jump between them often?


Do I focus on one topic on PerC or do you mean am I jumping from PerC to other websites?

I jump around websites a lot! I’ll have PerC open, facebook open, youtube open and various other sites…if I’m meant to be working on an assignment I’ll have that open (probably why it takes me so long to complete my assignments!)

On PerC I’ll post a comment on one topic and then go and look for another topic to comment on. I have to go my profile page and look at where I have been posting so that I can go back and see if I’ve had a reply haha. 



kateykinz said:


> Similarly, when you are researching using books, do you stick to one at a time until you have understood it thoroughly and/or made all your notes from it, or do you have several semi-finished books on the go at once?


When I’m researching I get lots of books out from the library on the topic I’m researching and skim through the pages until I find something that stands out that I can quote from. I never read the entire book.



kateykinz said:


> Are the interests that you choose to pursue totally wide-ranging and unrelated, or do you have fewer interests that you are particularly adept at/interested in? i.e. Jack of all trades, or master of one or two?


I think I’m a jack of all trades…I started off wanting to be a vet, then an illustrator then I thought fine artist, then I decided writing is my thing (it’s what I’m studying now) but music has always been an interest of mine so I’d really like to learn how to create electronic music. I jump about a lot. I go to singing lessons once a week and I’m a member of a choir. I stick mostly within the arts. Science is something that also interests me but I don’t spend as much time on it. 



kateykinz said:


> When you are indulging your imagination, do you get more and more fanciful as you go along, introducing more and more seemingly unconnected elements and generating possibilities from each of those until you have a whole different world in your head from what you started out with, or do you focus more on one theme, introducing elements until it reaches some kind of conclusion?


That’s a tough one…I think I like to focus on the one theme. I’ve noticed in my creative writing group that when I work in a team there are always people within the team that go off on a tangent and start coming up with random ideas and I find myself wanting to rein them in, especially if we are supposed to have something to present to the group. I like things to feel complete. 



kateykinz said:


> When you are talking to someone, does the conversation usually veer off at a tangent very quickly? If it does, do you get excited by going along with the twists and turns or do you tend to stop after a little while and try to get back onto the original topic until it has reached its natural conclusion?


Hmm again the second half of that sounds like me. I’ll go along with it and get excited but I like to get back where we left off so that the discussion can be concluded. 



kateykinz said:


> When you were little, did you imagine yourself in all sorts of different careers or was there one particular thing that you wanted to be?


I wanted to be a vet and that was it. Until I realised that I faint at the site of blood and then I had to start thinking about other jobs I could do. That was when I realised that art was what I liked doing and maybe I could create a career out of that. 



kateykinz said:


> When you were little, did you like to make up games more than play existing games? If so, did you more often make them up from scratch or did you take an existing game that you were bored with and change the rules?


Hmm when I was little me and my friends in the street I lived on used to pretend we were the superheroes from the cartoons we watched and we’d pretend to fight villains. My brother collected small cars and we used to play with them together pretending they had personalities. I also used to collect puppy in my pocket (I think that’s what they are called) and animal hospital toys so I’d play with them a lot. 

With board games I think I used to like sticking to the rules…but I can’t say for sure. 



kateykinz said:


> Do you find it hard to reach a decision about what to do with your day, week or life? If yes, is this because there are so many options that you'd like to follow that you can't identify which one would be the best at any given time? Or because you mentally walk yourself through the option and end up discounting it for now because you a) haven't yet got enough information to make a decision on it, or b) have decided that the reality won't be as good as you first imagined it might be, or c) something else?


For my day/week I don’t really plan what I’m going to do. I tend to just do things as and when I feel like it. Or in the case of shopping/washing I’ll leave it until I have no choice. 

Life – I don’t really know what I want for my life. Or I do but I don’t know how to get there and I always feel like I’m never good enough. I thought I might like to get into teaching and writing on the side but I don’t know if that is the career for me and I’m not exactly sure what sort of writing I want to be doing. So I’m hoping I’ll know by the end of my degree! 

I suppose this sounds like me: ‘ there are so many options that you'd like to follow that you can't identify which one would be the best at any given time’



kateykinz said:


> Do Does it bother you that I am calling you umbrella and asmit rather than your full usernames?


I didn't even notice that you weren’t using my full username…so I guess it doesn’t bother me hehe.


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm totally hijacking the thread, but...


kateykinz said:


> ^ I'm not sure about that, but I do want to let you know that I had a huge problem at uni...if I wrote an essay about something I was interested in I would generally get a lower mark than if I wrote an essay about something I wasn't. It would seem that my interest in a topic got in the way of me being able to analyze it objectively and do the best job. However, if I had to write about something I wasn't interested in it obviously bored the crap out of me and made me not want to write it at all - which is where my habit of procrastination reared its ugly head.


I find that I have this dilemma. I think my problem is when I'm passionate or interested, I have so many ideas I want to write down, and I can't structure it properly, so it comes out being a glob of words. Do you internally structure your paper? Like, you think of one idea and place it in the middle, and think of another to go in the beginning.



umbrellasky said:


> Hmm when I was little me and my friends in the street I lived on used to pretend we were the superheroes from the cartoons we watched and we’d pretend to fight villains. My brother collected small cars and we used to play with them together pretending they had personalities. I also used to collect puppy in my pocket (I think that’s what they are called) and animal hospital toys so I’d play with them a lot.


Awww! I used to do this with my sister. :3 I think we had pretty complex stories too.. Strange. What we used to do was start with the same basic storyline and play it a different way, having events happen in a different way. 

Again, sorry to derail it, but this thread helped me out a lot, since I've been questioning my type for a long while. :blushed:


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

lilllllian said:


> I'm totally hijacking the thread, but...
> 
> I find that I have this dilemma. I think my problem is when I'm passionate or interested, I have so many ideas I want to write down, and I can't structure it properly, so it comes out being a glob of words. Do you internally structure your paper? Like, you think of one idea and place it in the middle, and think of another to go in the beginning.


Do you pronounce your name like the Guylian adverts?

Anyway, I haven't written an essay in 10 years but this is how I used to do it...

I would take about a week to do research - I would go through one book, write notes and quotes, go through another book write notes until I was done with the research.

When it came to writing I found it best if I pulled an all-nighter rather than trying to write it over several days. 

I would take the first paragraph of notes and take note of its theme and give it a number and a descriptive label. Then I would go through the rest of the notes and give the same number and label to any other paragraphs on that same theme. Then I would repeat the process for the next paragraph's theme and so on until I had numbered and labelled each paragraph of notes.

Then I'd look at all the themes and rank them in order of relevance to answering the question. Starting with the most important, I would read through all the notes on that particular theme and synthesize them in my head then write a paragraph or three about it in my own words, with quotes as necessary. Then repeat for all the other themes in descending order of importance.

Then I would link all the writing together, based on the relation of points and what flowed best.

Then I would would read through it all and decide what my conclusion was. I'd write the conclusion and then write the introduction. After that, I'd edit the language as necessary to get down to or up to the required word limit. Then I'd type it all out on my word processor.

Does that answer your question properly? It was a pretty exhaustive process, especially given I didn't use a PC but it was worth it as I consistently scored in the 60-80% range, and anything I wrote an essay on was easy to regurgitate if a similar question arose during an exam.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

lilllllian said:



> Again, sorry to derail it, but this thread helped me out a lot, since I've been questioning my type for a long while. :blushed:


Well there is no answer in this thread, only things to think about - feel free to set yourself as "unknown" like us cool people though


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> Do you pronounce your name like the Guylian adverts?
> 
> Anyway, I haven't written an essay in 10 years but this is how I used to do it...
> 
> ...


I uh, don't know what guylian adverts are. :crazy:
I do best with the all-nighter too. If I write it over several days, I'll find that what I wrote before is complete crap so I have to do it all over, so there's really no point in it. The thing is, I hate timed writing. I need enough time to actually think about what to write, but if I'm given more than needed, I'll slack off. 

And wow. Exhaustive process indeed! This was only for college essays, I'm assuming. And yes, it answers it just fine. :happy:
Would it be alright if I answered those questions you posted? Well, it's umbrella's thread, so...


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

lilllllian said:


> I uh, don't know what guylian adverts are. :crazy:
> I do best with the all-nighter too. If I write it over several days, I'll find that what I wrote before is complete crap so I have to do it all over, so there's really no point in it. The thing is, I hate timed writing. I need enough time to actually think about what to write, but if I'm given more than needed, I'll slack off.
> 
> And wow. Exhaustive process indeed! This was only for college essays, I'm assuming. And yes, it answers it just fine. :happy:
> Would it be alright if I answered those questions you posted? Well, it's umbrella's thread, so...


YouTube - Guylian Advert

Course it's ok to answer those questions. I'm waiting on Mr Asmit anyway before I respond to umbrella's results, as I don't want my analysis to influence his answers.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

lilllllian said:


> I do best with the all-nighter too. If I write it over several days, I'll find that what I wrote before is complete crap so I have to do it all over, so there's really no point in it. The thing is, I hate timed writing. I need enough time to actually think about what to write, but if I'm given more than needed, I'll slack off.


So it's not just me then.... Thanks for posting that! :mellow:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

When you are on the Internet do you focus in-depth on one topic, or do you have many browser windows open with different subjects and jump between them often?

Lets see... MBTI type function table, ink comparison forum, daily astronomy picture, e-mail, song lyric interpretations, wikipedia, camera modded firmware info x2... and that's window one of two :laughing: I'm pretty jumpy! 

Similarly, when you are researching using books, do you stick to one at a time until you have understood it thoroughly and/or made all your notes from it, or do you have several semi-finished books on the go at once?

I'll take this from a non educational angle as I rarely wrote essays. I've currently got just two books on the go - one on Jung and the other semi fictional about human behaviour (an easy read but allegedly true stories of stupidity). I found it hard to read about Jung and Freud at the same time... I only ever have one fiction book on the go too.

Are the interests that you choose to pursue totally wide-ranging and unrelated, or do you have fewer interests that you are particularly adept at/interested in? i.e. Jack of all trades, or master of one or two?

Eh... Photography, nature walks and listening to music are all sensory, so related? Or Photography is technical, walking is physical and listening to music is relaxation so they are not... I can do most things if I want but would probably only call myself a master of one - computers.

When you are indulging your imagination, do you get more and more fanciful as you go along, introducing more and more seemingly unconnected elements and generating possibilities from each of those until you have a whole different world in your head from what you started out with, or do you focus more on one theme, introducing elements until it reaches some kind of conclusion?

I don't dream of castles in the sky, more usually imaginary social interaction. When you've worked out what you think someone thinks the urge to ask them diminishes, so whether it's fanciful or realistic would be hard to judge but on further thinking it's usually an imaginary conversation on one theme. Unless you call trying to work something out inside your head imagination, in which case I keep adding as new things appear to be relevant to the subject at hand.

When you are talking to someone, does the conversation usually veer off at a tangent very quickly? If it does, do you get excited by going along with the twists and turns or do you tend to stop after a little while and try to get back onto the original topic until it has reached its natural conclusion?

haha! As in a real life conversation? I definitely enjoy the tangents but I'm rarely the one to instigate them. Not completely tangental though, a bridge has no place in a conversation about cars but you uncle's motorbike does. If I've bothered to raise a topic I'd probably end the conversation when it was clear the subject I wanted to discuss had been lost. *Edit: *But when writing I can cross themes as long as there is what appears to be a solid link between them (to me, of course. How random I come across I have no idea...). 

When you were little, did you imagine yourself in all sorts of different careers or was there one particular thing that you wanted to be? :laughing:

When you were little, did you like to make up games more than play existing games? If so, did you more often make them up from scratch or did you take an existing game that you were bored with and change the rules? :laughing::crazy:

Do you find it hard to reach a decision about what to do with your day, week or life? If yes, is this because there are so many options that you'd like to follow that you can't identify which one would be the best at any given time? Or because you mentally walk yourself through the option and end up discounting it for now because you a) haven't yet got enough information to make a decision on it, or b) have decided that the reality won't be as good as you first imagined it might be, or c) something else?

For life yes and c - I suffer greatly from "this isn't bad, that might be worse so why change" type thinking. Or is that b...
For a day I'll usually just see what happens unless something specific is going on. Usually not :laughing: On occasion I will plan out a day and I'm very annoyed when someone disrupts it, even to invite me to do something I'll enjoy. If I planned to go for a walk from 1-6 and didn't get out before 2 I'd probably forget the idea so as not to jeopardise the next item on the agenda. I'm more likely to plan a day "doing" something if I have other free days around it thinking about it, as most of my free time should be truly free incase someone needs help with something. No harm in hoping. *Edit: *I guess my morning routine fits in this bit too. I know exactly how long everything takes and always follow the exact same order. If my mum has the day off so I need to spend 3 minutes feeding the birds I will probably be late for work!

Does it bother you that I am calling you umbrella and asmit rather than your full usernames?

Mine's meaningless, as you know... keep it polite and I'm not too bothered what you call me.




kateykinz said:


> I'm waiting on Mr Asmit anyway before I respond to umbrella's results, as I don't want my analysis to influence his answers.


Sorry :blushed: 

I found this old post which gives an interesting view of my thinking while looking for a quote if anyone's interested. I was trying to convince people I was an INFP at the time but the thinking looks typical...

http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...ntp-infp-surely-i-should-know.html#post470164


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

penchant said:


> So it's not just me then.... Thanks for posting that! :mellow:


No problem! I spoke with my INFJ mom about this and she used to have the same ordeal when she had to write essays.

When you are on the Internet do you focus in-depth on one topic, or do you have many browser windows open with different subjects and jump between them often?

Most of the time, it's a bunch of different tabs on the same subjects. Like, right now, most of my tabs are on the differences between Ni and Si. I'm pretty sure I don't use Si, but you never know.

Similarly, when you are researching using books, do you stick to one at a time until you have understood it thoroughly and/or made all your notes from it, or do you have several semi-finished books on the go at once?

Again, many books on the same subject. I'm usualy specifically looking for something, so I'll have several books to look into it. For fiction, I usually just stick to one book. I feel obligated to finish it too, even if it's not interesting. Sometimes, I'll re-read books to invoke the feelings they gave me before. Same goes for shows that've emotionally impacted me.

Are the interests that you choose to pursue totally wide-ranging and unrelated, or do you have fewer interests that you are particularly adept at/interested in? i.e. Jack of all trades, or master of one or two?

I have fewer interests. Some things do catch my attention, but I never really look into them. When I do, however, I attack it like crazy. I want to know everything about it. Take for example type theory. I've pretty much exhausted all my resources (cept for books, still looking into that!) and I still feel like I haven't learned enough. When my interest has waned, I just drop the whole thing, so I'm kind of flaky in that regard. 

When you are indulging your imagination, do you get more and more fanciful as you go along, introducing more and more seemingly unconnected elements and generating possibilities from each of those until you have a whole different world in your head from what you started out with, or do you focus more on one theme, introducing elements until it reaches some kind of conclusion?

I stick more to a theme, but I don't necessarily reach a conclusion. I usually daydream about characters I've read about, sort of like fan-fiction. I'm constantly rewriting it too. I've noticed that I have recurring themes like, revenge, rebirth, vengeance, death, happiness, family, etc. What I do is when I see a situation I like, whether it'd be something I personally experienced, or watched, or read, I'll try to incorporate it into my fantasy world. So my world is a mold of different things. I daydream about myself too, but it's usually from a third-person perspective. This would include something, like, what I would say if I were famous and being interviewed, I would imagine what I would say. It's like an indirect way of understanding myself.

When you are talking to someone, does the conversation usually veer off at a tangent very quickly? If it does, do you get excited by going along with the twists and turns or do you tend to stop after a little while and try to get back onto the original topic until it has reached its natural conclusion?

It depends. I think for myself, it has to be at a certain pace, we can't change topics too quickly. Sometimes I mind, like if I want to talk about a subject a little more indepth, but other times I'm happy because the start of the conversation wasn't that interesting to begin with. I'll also comment and ask, "How do we end up talking about this?" I'll frequently ask random questions to spark a conversation, and see where it'll go. 

When you were little, did you imagine yourself in all sorts of different careers or was there one particular thing that you wanted to be? 

I think I stuck with a few different ones. I wish there was one thing; it'd make my life a lot easier right now. 

When you were little, did you like to make up games more than play existing games? If so, did you more often make them up from scratch or did you take an existing game that you were bored with and change the rules?

Repeat what umbrella said. :]

Do you find it hard to reach a decision about what to do with your day, week or life? If yes, is this because there are so many options that you'd like to follow that you can't identify which one would be the best at any given time? Or because you mentally walk yourself through the option and end up discounting it for now because you a) haven't yet got enough information to make a decision on it, or b) have decided that the reality won't be as good as you first imagined it might be, or c) something else?

For the day, I don't really plan anything. Whatever goes, goes. Week would be a little more planned, but it's flexible and not very hard to decide. Life is a different story. I love thinking about the future, it gives me excitement, yet at the same time it's kind of stressful because I don't know what to do. For me, it's because I think there's so much to experience and I don't really want to limit myself. Yet I don't know where to start.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

lilllllian said:


> For fiction, I usually just stick to one book. I feel obligated to finish it too, even if it's not interesting. Sometimes, I'll re-read books to invoke the feelings they gave me before. Same goes for shows that've emotionally impacted me.


I'm the same with fiction. Sometimes I'll have a couple on the go but I always end up deciding which one has the my full attention. And yes, I also feel obligated to finish it. I can't think of a book that I haven't finished because I didn't find it interesting. I just keep hoping it will get better!



lilllllian said:


> I have fewer interests. Some things do catch my attention, but I never really look into them. When I do, however, I attack it like crazy. I want to know everything about it. Take for example type theory. I've pretty much exhausted all my resources (cept for books, still looking into that!) and I still feel like I haven't learned enough. When my interest has waned, I just drop the whole thing, so I'm kind of flaky in that regard..


I attack things like crazy too...I taught myself book binding once and I learnt how to make my own book and it was like "well I know how to do that now so I can move on to something else." I'm the same with trying to learn instruments I get enthusiastic for a few weeks until something else catches my eye. 



lilllllian said:


> I daydream about myself too, but it's usually from a third-person perspective. This would include something, like, what I would say if I were famous and being interviewed, I would imagine what I would say. It's like an indirect way of understanding myself.


I do this too!! Haha glad I'm not the only one  Another thing I do is when I'm watching interviews on tv I try to imagine myself answering the questions. :laughing:



lilllllian said:


> For the day, I don't really plan anything. Whatever goes, goes. Week would be a little more planned, but it's flexible and not very hard to decide. Life is a different story. I love thinking about the future, it gives me excitement, yet at the same time it's kind of stressful because I don't know what to do. For me, it's because I think there's so much to experience and I don't really want to limit myself. Yet I don't know where to start.


That's how I feel, there are so many possibilities that I can't decide which one I'd be happiest doing, or which one I'd be good at. So I end up not know where to start.


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

OK, Umbrellasky, here is my analysis of you:



> I jump around websites a lot! I’ll have PerC open, facebook open, youtube open and various other sites…if I’m meant to be working on an assignment I’ll have that open (probably why it takes me so long to complete my assignments!)



Ne. But probably just a generational thing, so maybe not the best indicator - I'm pretty sure we're all guilty of multiple-window opening syndrome...it gets pretty stuffy otherwise :happy:



> When I’m researching I get lots of books out from the library on the topic I’m researching and skim through the pages until I find something that stands out that I can quote from. I never read the entire book.


Ne



> With fiction. Sometimes I'll have a couple on the go but I always end up deciding which one has the my full attention. And yes, I also feel obligated to finish it. I can't think of a book that I haven't finished because I didn't find it interesting. I just keep hoping it will get better!


First part seems Ni or Si, second part probably Si.




> I think I’m a jack of all trades…I started off wanting to be a vet, then an illustrator then I thought fine artist, then I decided writing is my thing (it’s what I’m studying now) but music has always been an interest of mine so I’d really like to learn how to create electronic music. I jump about a lot. I go to singing lessons once a week and I’m a member of a choir. I stick mostly within the arts. Science is something that also interests me but I don’t spend as much time on it.
> I attack things like crazy too...I taught myself book binding once and I learnt how to make my own book and it was like "well I know how to do that now so I can move on to something else." I'm the same with trying to learn instruments I get enthusiastic for a few weeks until something else catches my eye.


Very Ne. Or maybe Se :crazy:





> That’s a tough one…I think I like to focus on the one theme. I’ve noticed in my creative writing group that when I work in a team there are always people within the team that go off on a tangent and start coming up with random ideas and I find myself wanting to rein them in, especially if we are supposed to have something to present to the group. I like things to feel complete.


This is more Ni than Ne. The trying to keep the group on track thing could indicate Ni in the "critical parent" role.



> I daydream about myself too, but it's usually from a third-person perspective. This would include something, like, what I would say if I were famous and being interviewed, I would imagine what I would say. It's like an indirect way of understanding myself.I do this too!! Haha glad I'm not the only one Another thing I do is when I'm watching interviews on tv I try to imagine myself answering the questions.


I do the interviewing myself thing a lot, my Si husband does the same but rather he imagines talking to someone he knows and them asking him questions - yours could be either Ni or Si. It's hard to differentiate them sometimes. I guess if you are asking questions of yourself based on real-word stimuli and what you imagine someone you know might ask you then it is Si, but if you are asking more abstract questions and invent a faceless interviewer it is Ni.



> Hmm again the second half of that sounds like me. I’ll go along with it and get excited but I like to get back where we left off so that the discussion can be concluded.


That would be using Ne, but not in a dominant role. Do you tend to veer the conversation off yourself, or is it normally someone else and you go along for the ride? It could either be Ni (enjoying looking at different perspectives but wanting to come to a conclusion on at least the original topic, or Ne tempered by Si pragmatism perhaps?




> I wanted to be a vet and that was it. Until I realised that I faint at the site of blood and then I had to start thinking about other jobs I could do. That was when I realised that art was what I liked doing and maybe I could create a career out of that.


I asked this question because when you are little you are only supposed to have your dominant function developed. The fact that you were focused on being one thing would suggest that you are not Ne or Se dominant. The fact that you later came up with lots of different options that you can't choose between would indicate Ne or Se auxillary. I don't believe for a moment that you are Ti dominant, so from just this one question I'm leaning towards IXFP for you.




> Hmm when I was little me and my friends in the street I lived on used to pretend we were the superheroes from the cartoons we watched and we’d pretend to fight villains. My brother collected small cars and we used to play with them together pretending they had personalities.


I think this suggests N preference over S - were you the instigator of the games or the follower? Your brother is Ne dominant, so his influence would no doubt rub off on you. I don't see Ni here. When I was little (and even now in fact) I would invent my own games based on the original - changing the rules and/or the goals to make it into my own original game, which meant that the same game could bring me endless challenges. This is indicative of the Ni-dom perspective-changing habit - no need to change the external world when you can change what already is just by changing the parameters.



> Life – I don’t really know what I want for my life. Or I do but I don’t know how to get there and I always feel like I’m never good enough.


Fi tempered by self-doubt.



> I thought I might like to get into teaching and writing on the side but I don’t know if that is the career for me and I’m not exactly sure what sort of writing I want to be doing. So I’m hoping I’ll know by the end of my degree!


Fi tempered by Ne?



> I suppose this sounds like me: ‘ there are so many options that you'd like to follow that you can't identify which one would be the best at any given time’
> That's how I feel, there are so many possibilities that I can't decide which one I'd be happiest doing, or which one I'd be good at. So I end up not know where to start.


Ne, Ne, Ne.



> didn't even notice that you weren’t using my full username…so I guess it doesn’t bother me hehe.


I would expect you to at least notice it if you were aux Se. I notice things like that and my Se is my inferior function.

So, in conclusion, based on these answers, and bearing in mind I'm no expert in functions but I think I have my head around the Ne-Ni divide more than most because it took me forever to figure it out for myself, I am heavily leaning towards INFP for you. Fi-Ne-Si-Te. The fact that you can even remotely figure out where Bjork is coming from emotionally adds weight to that :laughing:


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

Next up, asmit127.



> Lets see... MBTI type function table, ink comparison forum, daily astronomy picture, e-mail, song lyric interpretations, wikipedia, camera modded firmware info x2... and that's window one of two I'm pretty jumpy!


Wow, Ne, but see disclaimer in my umbrellasky anlysis. Pleased to see I've got you into the APOD habit :happy:



> I'll take this from a non educational angle as I rarely wrote essays. I've currently got just two books on the go - one on Jung and the other semi fictional about human behaviour (an easy read but allegedly true stories of stupidity). I found it hard to read about Jung and Freud at the same time... I only ever have one fiction book on the go too.


Ni or Si



> Eh... Photography, nature walks and listening to music are all sensory, so related? Or Photography is technical, walking is physical and listening to music is relaxation so they are not... I can do most things if I want but would probably only call myself a master of one - computers.


I think I meant related in topic. So your interests are fairly narrow, albeit unrelated. I think 99% of the population of the world is interested in listening to music, so I'm not sure that can be classed as a particular interest per se, unless you are heavily into music theory or something. So, I'm going with Ni or Si again on this. The difference is in the detail - do you go walking to focus on the details of the natural world around you or more because it makes you feel "at one" with nature? With your photography do you have an overall theme to your images? Do you concentrate more on mood and portraying concepts and hidden meaning, or are you more interested in bringing out little details that might go unnoticed, and get caught up with the technical details like lighting and focus? Do you want to portray something abstract and universal and meaningful, or are you more concerned e.g with bringing nature to life?




> I don't dream of castles in the sky, more usually imaginary social interaction. When you've worked out what someone thinks the urge to ask them diminishes, so whether it's fanciful or realistic would be hard to judge but on further thinking it's usually one theme.


Again, more Ni. If you were using Ne your mind would jump about constantly with new associations over an unlmiited number of themes, and you would ride it out with great excitement, not needing or necessarily wanting to come to any sort of conclusion.



> Unless you call trying to work something out inside your head imagination, in which case I keep adding as new things appear to be relevant to the subject at hand.


Ni or Si.




> haha! As in a real life conversation? I definitely enjoy the tangents but I'm rarely the one to instigate them. Not completely tangental though, a bridge has no place in a conversation about cars but you uncle's motorbike does. If I've bothered to raise a topic I'd probably end the conversation when it was clear the subject I wanted to discuss had been lost.


Ni/Si and Te (I think).




> When you were little, did you imagine yourself in all sorts of different careers or was there one particular thing that you wanted to be?
> 
> When you were little, did you like to make up games more than play existing games? If so, did you more often make them up from scratch or did you take an existing game that you were bored with and change the rules?


You could have at least made something up, you slacker :wink:



> For life yes and c - I suffer greatly from "this isn't bad, that might be worse so why change" type thinking. Or is that b...


Kind of b but more c. So kind of Ni, but more Si.



> On occasion I will plan out a day and I'm very annoyed when someone disrupts it, even to invite me to do something I'll enjoy. If I planned to go for a walk from 1-6 and didn't get out before 2 I'd probably forget the idea so as not to jeopardise the next item on the agenda.


Very un-Ne/Se. Likely Si again.



> I'm more likely to plan a day "doing" something if I have other free days around it thinking about it, as most of my free time should be truly free incase someone needs help with something. No harm in hoping.


You sit around doing nothing much in particular in the hope that someone will need you to help them? Because if you have planned to do something and then they need your help you'll get annoyed because they have disrupted you? And then you will feel bad for being annoyed? Am I reading that right?

Because if I am, sorry to get all Freudian on your arse, that sounds like one of your ego's convuluted excuses for surrendering lamely to the superego again. Function wise, that would have to be Fi.



> Does it bother you that I am calling you umbrella and asmit rather than your full usernames?
> Mine's meaningless, as you know... keep it polite and I'm not too bothered what you call me.


Well, I was going to call you Mr Smith instead of Mr Asmit, but I realised no one else on the thread would realise why. I'm all about the Fe, me :happy:
The 127 bit gets on my nerves for some reason.
I'm always wanting to shorten or change people's names as a form of bonding - to show that I am willing to go past formal into informal territory.




> I found this old post which gives an interesting view of my thinking while looking for a quote if anyone's interested. I was trying to convince people I was an INFP at the time but the thinking looks typical...
> 
> INTP or INFP? Surely I should know?!


That thread does show off your Fi really well. But I don't believe it is dominant Fi. Teritiary Fi makes sense for you, with Fe being in the "trickster" position.

And my conclusion of you today....IXTJ. I can't figure out if you're using Ni or Si, all I know is that I believe I was right in that you are not a dominant or auxillary Ne user. You use it, but not as much as you think you do. If you are ISTJ then it would be used, weakly, aspired to and admired in others. If you are INTJ then you will have skill using it but it is used as the "opposing role". 

The Aspirational Role (Inferior) (sometimes referred to as the 4th function)
The aspirational role usually doesn’t develop until around midlife. We often experience it first in its negative aspect of projecting our “shoulds,” fears, and negativities onto others. The qualities of these fears reflect the process that plays this role, and we are more likely to look immature when we engage in the process that plays this role. There is often a fairly high energy cost for using it—even when we acquire the skill to do so. As we learn to trust it and develop it, the aspirational role process provides a bridge to balance in our lives. Often our sense of purpose, inspiration, and ideals have the qualities of the process that plays this role.

The Opposing Role (sometimes referred to as the 5th function)
The opposing role is often how we get stubborn and argumentative—refusing to “play” and join in whatever is going on at the time. It might be easy for us to develop skill in the process that plays this role, but we are likely to be more narrow in our application of this skill, and it will likely take more energy to use it extensively. In its positive aspect, it provides a shadow or depth to our leading role process, backing it up and enabling us to be more persistent in pursuit of our goals.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

katyeykinz said:


> So, in conclusion, based on these answers, and bearing in mind I'm no expert in functions but I think I have my head around the Ne-Ni divide more than most because it took me forever to figure it out for myself, I am heavily leaning towards INFP for you. Fi-Ne-Si-Te. The fact that you can even remotely figure out where Bjork is coming from emotionally adds weight to that :laughing:


I have to partially disagree, but not based on your questions. I doubt the accuracy of the answers especially as umbrellasky's response was very fast, fast enough to suggest that she still thinks she knows why she does everything which as you know from taking ages typing yourself no-one does.

I'm still leaning heavily towards S - see my N test question sneaked in earlier where the meaning was completely missed as the sentence was taken in isolation. I also answered one question out of order in a PM and it was completely missed - I "hid" my uni course in a paragraph that went from pets through housing rules at uni to me at uni. The missed answer wasn't short either


asmit127 said:


> I studied Computing and Information Systems which is a way of saying I'm an IT jack of all trades (but expert in none, so no job prospects :dry but haven't used much of what I learnt.


Some classic examples of Si too, the first came in response to my rabbit pictures the second is self explanatory.


umbrellasky said:


> Aw he’s lovely. For some reason seeing those images reminded me of the neighbours I used to have at my old house. They had rabbits and as a child I used to love going to their house and stroking them.





umbrellasky said:


> This is why I struggle so much because as soon as I start trying to work out what fits me I don't have a clue and I try to imagine what I'd do in a situation and I'm not really sure what I'd do unless I can remember a time when I've done it before.


Then there was an opportunity for raging Ne to present lots of options but instead I got 


umbrellasky said:


> I don't know...hmm when you put me on the spot like that everything shuts down!


umbrellasky's explanation :
Hmm I'm not sure how to explain this. I think the first thing I thought was that you seemed like the sort of person that would perhaps find social situations difficult? And that you'd rather spend time on your own, but I didn't want to assume that...so I thought about it for while trying to rack my brains for all the things I remember you telling me about yourself and socialising more is the only thing that kept coming up so in the end that's what I said. 

Finally I expressed a controversial humanitarian opinion that should have set off Fi especially if it were dominant but instead I got


umbrellasky said:


> I suppose it's a topic I haven't spent much time thinking about and I don't have a solid opinion on. If I had an opinion on it I would be very passionate about it. It's a tough one, lots of thoughts keep popping into my mind and it's mostly 'what else is there'


This appears to show reliance on external acceptability for her beliefs, while desperately trying not to be a T? This was followed by a flurry of questions, Ne is not dead :laughing:

So having seen what appeared to be Fi throughout this thread I'm changing my tune and going to suggest we may have an ISFJ here. 

I'm still not confident though :crazy:


Sidenote: The reason Ti is not considered responsible for taking things literally is probably because it is a judging function not perceiving. This was something that came to me as I walked home from work today :happy:


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## Boots (Nov 26, 2010)

I'm going to poke my head in here - mostly because I only recently discovered this site and my current goal is determining if my self assessment is correct. I had a 'change' in type (which I think was just misclassification early on, for reasons I won't get into here). Now I consistently test INFP, though my closest is the P/J. And so this thread, which started out as INFP vs. INFJ, really caught my attention. I'm just starting to get a grasp on cognitive functions (for some reason the recurrent use of the same letters (Se vs Si, each as dominant vs. auxiliary) really gives me trouble) so please forgive any ignorant sounding comments I may make!

In reading through the thread I've found myself repeatedly thinking differently in 2 aspects:
1) Taking a question and running with it - the jeans question for example, my brain said 'Jeans, HALO.. what does that mean? On 'The Guild' the hardcore HALO chick wore tight jeans, I wonder if that says anything about confidence. I wear loose jeans... ' etc etc. This kind of reaction occurred repeatedly for me where Asmit commented on Umbrellasky not volunteering more information, I'd have to reign myself in from babbling unasked information (maybe I just lack 'verbal' restraint).

2) I would be way less likely to feel a need to tell others of my opinions. I feel very similarly about a lot of the things brought up (fox hunting, guys in bars, etc) but I would think my opinion and be less likely to share it. Not from fear of speaking my opinion.. mostly less desire or need to explain/tell/share it with others. I think I'm getting more this way as I get older. Which in rereading seems to contradict what I just said in #1. Hrm.

3) The need for conclusion... both Umbrellasky and Asmit mention this. Is this not a J thing? Or is it that because it is a J thing it would mean that you are either Se or Ne? 



> I find myself wanting to rein them in, especially if we are supposed to have something to present to the group. I like things to feel complete.


I'm just trying to understand when (or if) you would look at something as a 'J' trait vs. an Ni trait). I feel like I could go on ad infinitum without necessarily needing to bring it back to a conclusion. Though I will reach a conclusion if I absolutely have to, I have to work at it though.

If these are Ni traits then it seems to confirm my other conclusions that I'm Ne, which would place me correctly as INFP (self validation... there ya go) and make Umbrellasky and Asmit more likely to be INFJ?

Please let me know if I've misinterpreted this.

~ Pb ~

(Ninja'd by Asmit... I'm going to post this anyway or I'll end up tweaking it all night as other people comment before I actually post it!!)


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> [lots of varied tabs] Wow, Ne, but see disclaimer in my umbrellasky anlysis


Opera had tabs and session saving long before Firefox made them popular.



kateykinz said:


> I think 99% of the population of the world is interested in listening to music, so I'm not sure that can be classed as a particular interest per se, unless you are heavily into music theory or something. [do you] get caught up with the technical details?


 If I can add the last sentence you'd have another aspect of this. I've invested quite alot of money in headphones to be able to hear things most people (who use the earbuds that come with their ipod) never will, and I'm thrilled when I discover another instrument or whispered vocal in a song I thought I knew well.



kateykinz said:


> The difference is in the detail - do you go walking to focus on the details of the natural world around you or more because it makes you feel "at one" with nature?


I'm always on the lookout for animals and birds but there is a special feeling when just out there wandering. In my first ever thread questioning my type Adymus (of the "many faces of INFJ" thread fame) suggested my outlook on walking was very Ne. I'll find a quote...



Adymus said:


> asmit127 said:
> 
> 
> > I think about many things, some "real" and some not. I've been trying to make sense of squirrels for a long time - sometimes timid, others agressive and lately they seem more sociable. This then relates to the possibility that the whole world is just my projection, (my mood appears to greatly influence the presence of squirrels yet surely others can see it them too and if I can influence them why can't others?) which makes the physical world seem meaningless, yet I think there must be some point to it.
> ...


I wonder how good he really is :mellow:



kateykinz said:


> With your photography do you have an overall theme to your images? Do you concentrate more on mood and portraying concepts and hidden meaning, or are you more interested in bringing out little details that might go unnoticed, and get caught up with the technical details like lighting and focus? Do you want to portray something abstract and universal and meaningful, or are you more concerned e.g with bringing nature to life?


The modded firmware adds far greater manual control over focus, brightness, contrast etc - I can now capture things in trees against a sunny sky so I guess I'm into the technical side of things. Haven't worked out how to get the clouds too though :laughing: There is no hidden meaning in any of the photos I've taken thus far, I would like to focus on capturing quirky animal behaviour.



kateykinz said:


> sorry to get all Freudian on your arse, that sounds like one of your ego's convuluted excuses for surrendering lamely to the superego again.


Guilty as charged :blushed:



kateykinz said:


> Well, I was going to call you Mr Smith instead of Mr Asmit, but I realised no one else on the thread would realise why. I'm all about the Fe, me


:laughing: Yeah, that would confuse people!



kateykinz said:


> The 127 bit gets on my nerves for some reason.


Your Ni suggesting there must be a reason behind it when you know full well there isn't? :crazy:



kateykinz said:


> That thread does show off your Fi really well. But I don't believe it is dominant Fi.


I'd happily have a go at selling bread to a baker :laughing: That whole thread just shows that anyone can convince anyone they are any type without knowing the first thing about typing :mellow:



kateykinz said:


> If you are ISTJ then it would be used, weakly, aspired to





kateykinz said:


> You use it, but not as much as you think you do


Seems likely, no?


Thanks for the analysis anyway, I hope it helped you clarify the questions if not get nearer to my type. If you're going to be asking anyone else them :happy:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Boots said:


> Now I consistently test INFP


And that means pretty much nothing, as you probably answered more how you want to be than how you really are and the tests only focus on the letters using stereotyped behaviour :happy:

Please note that an X means either of the options that can fit there, what is said is common between the two types.



Boots said:


> Taking a question and running with it - the jeans question for example, my brain said 'Jeans, HALO.. what does that mean? On 'The Guild' the hardcore HALO chick wore tight jeans, I wonder if that says anything about confidence. I wear loose jeans... ' etc etc. This kind of reaction occurred repeatedly for me where Asmit commented on Umbrellasky not volunteering more information, I'd have to reign myself in from babbling unasked information (maybe I just lack 'verbal' restraint).


Volunteering thoughts and options is often Ne, but I do it and am slowly coming to terms with it not being a significant function of mine.



Boots said:


> I would be way less likely to feel a need to tell others of my opinions. I feel very similarly about a lot of the things brought up (fox hunting, guys in bars, etc) but I would think my opinion and be less likely to share it. Not from fear of speaking my opinion.. mostly less desire or need to explain/tell/share it with others. I think I'm getting more this way as I get older. Which in rereading seems to contradict what I just said in #1. Hrm.


This suggests your primary judging function may be introverted, an extroverted one would be more keen to express your opinions rather than your thoughts prior to forming an opinion.



Boots said:


> The need for conclusion... both Umbrellasky and Asmit mention this. Is this not a J thing?


No, that's a bad stereotype - the J/P isn't a function in iteslf it changes the order of the functions. INXPs actually need answers more than INXJs, as their main judging function is introverted (Fi or Ti) so INXPs can appear aimless but have firm opinions while INXJs are more outwardly organised but their opinions may be more likely to change. Of course there are people who don't fit these stereotypes though, so don't rely on them.



Boots said:


> Or is it that because it is a J thing it would mean that you are either Se or Ne?


Again, J isn't a function. It might be useful to have a look at The 16 Type Patterns which is a handy table of the types and which functions they use, normally we only consider the first four. You'll notice that if you change the I to an E the middle functions become the outer ones, while changing a J to a P swaps the middle to the outside and swaps all the Xe to Xi. The S/T and N/P decide which of those is used more (positions 1 and 2), with the other opposites being in positions 3 and 4



Boots said:


> I'm just trying to understand when (or if) you would look at something as a 'J' trait vs. an Ni trait). I feel like I could go on ad infinitum without necessarily needing to bring it back to a conclusion. Though I will reach a conclusion if I absolutely have to, I have to work at it though.
> 
> If these are Ni traits then it seems to confirm my other conclusions that I'm Ne, which would place me correctly as INFP (self validation... there ya go) and make Umbrellasky and Asmit more likely to be INFJ?


Sorry to say it but you're way off. If I had to guess just based on what you've said I'd suggest you look into ENFP as they are Ne dominant so likely to spew opinions. Just because you are friendly and female doesn't make you an F. Good luck :happy:

Oh, and do you relate to any of these? Tertiary Temptation

I think my spellcheck is broken :crazy: (see attachment)


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## Boots (Nov 26, 2010)

> Sorry to say it but you're way off.


Don't be! The reason I'm throwing caution to the wind and posting is that I don't want to be drawing wrong conclusions, so I appreciate the feedback and correction. FWIW a few years ago I probably wouldn't have been brave enough to post and would have lurked until I found a comment/reply that addressed the quandary in my brain or was close enough I could figure something out from it. 

I'm only recently learning about the cognitive functions aspect of MBTI - starting when I picked up a copy of 'Do what you are' a month ago, so I am coming from a beginner place with it. From years of a very superficial understanding of the system (but knowing that there was a world more 'to it' than what I understand). It's rather fitting that I've found this site at this time :happy:.

I don't wish to hijack the thread with my own type analysis... but I am aware that INFP may not be my type (and I've settled on that type for reasons beyond just how I score on online tests) and that's precisely why I'm here. And that is also why I'm going to reply to your reply even if I expose my ignorance. And I'm going to try to read what you're saying and not gloss it over and try to stuff it into what I already think I understand. 

Here goes....



> INXPs actually need answers more than INXJs, as their main judging function is introverted (Fi or Ti) so INXPs can appear aimless but have firm opinions while INXJs are more outwardly organised but their opinions may be more likely to change. Of course there are people who don't fit these stereotypes though, so don't rely on them.


It seems to me that answers are not the same as conclusions. I feel that I need lots of answers - but they just beget more questions. The more answers I get the less likely that I'll be able to draw a conclusion. This drives me nuts at work.



> Again, J isn't a function. It might be useful to have a look at The 16 Type Patterns which is a handy table of the types and which functions they use, normally we only consider the first four. You'll notice that if you change the I to an E the middle functions become the outer ones, while changing a J to a P swaps the middle to the outside and swaps all the Xe to Xi. The S/T and N/P decide which of those is used more (positions 1 and 2), with the other opposites being in positions 3 and 4


That website makes my brain bleed.
In all seriousness though - this is my stopping block. I've read this site as well - also, brain bleeding. I have a Master's degree in veterinary science and I cannot make myself comprehend these tables. I think I need to take all of this information and have some serious time with a big whiteboard. I'll come back when it makes more sense to me :laughing:. I really feel like I can and will understand all of this -but I have to deconstruct and reconstruct it so it makes sense to me from all directions, and tables and paragraphs of text don't do it for me.



> Oh, and do you relate to any of these? Tertiary Temptation


You just made my brain bleed more. 

The first one actually resonates the most:
_Tertiary Si (INxP): "I can't possibly go along with this, I don't have any reliable concepts or map to anchor myself with: it's all arbitrary and untrustworthy and meaningless. I'd be diving in without any orientation; I'd be tripped up or harmed from any random direction, and my efforts wouldn't be cumulative. I just won't budge. I'll build myself some barricades and wait for the storm to blow over." The Secondary Function (Ne) would say: "Look around, shake up the pot, see what new arises, and deal with it imaginatively; there must be better alternatives available than being stuck here." (My secondary Ne says something more in the lines of "Pay attention to your surroundings and do the thing that will have the most interesting results. Don't be dumb just because you don't have any experience.")_​
At least that Tertiary is my knee-jerk reaction to this conversation, and my initial desire as I get myself more confused is to hunker down and just state 'I am XXXX', and then work outward from there (I feel that way about my career sometimes too). My second (and presumably more mature) thought is ... WTF? What if you ~are~ ENFP, go with it - go look at their forum, who knows what you'll figure out.

Or maybe I just think that because I want to protect my typology.

Mostly I want to figure this whole thing out - so leaving my type out of it (because I think I'm messed up somewhat - heck, I used to 'test' INTJ) might be easier for me, in this thread at least. I'm going to go digest all that you said and look at the OP's comments (and yours) again.

I'll be back... 

(PS - if I'm too preliminary in my understanding to be hanging out in this thread, please point me to a more appropriate place!)

(PSS:


> I'd suggest you look into ENFP


 Oy, now I doubt the entire basis of my existence. If I'm really an extrovert...wow. )

:crazy:

~ Pb ~

(EDIT: Forgot to comment on your spellchecker.... any spellchecker that comes up with antidisestablishmentarianism is tops in my book. *wants to get that word at scrabble someday*)

(Yes, I know that's impossible)

(EDIT2: Just cruised the ENFP thread... I'd love to be like them. I don't think I'm cheery enough!)


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> So having seen what appeared to be Fi throughout this thread I'm changing my tune and going to suggest we may have an ISFJ here.


I looked at the ISFJ profile a few weeks ago and I thought that I could relate to most of it but I can also relate to INFJ, INFP and a little bit of ISFP...


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I looked at the ISFJ profile a few weeks ago and I thought that I could relate to most of it but I can also relate to INFJ, INFP and a little bit of ISFP...


Another challenge I've found to see how well I relate to a certain type is to see how far through their "You know you're an XXXX when..." thread you can get without being bored - I managed 29 pages of ISTJ before having to go to bed, but only 14 of INTJ before moving on. Hardly scientific though :crazy:

I read this very short ISFJ profile on the site I keep up for the type/functions table and it sounds like something your brother would agree with.



> Theme is protecting and caretaking, making sure their charges are safe from harm. Talents lie in making sure everything is taken care of so others can succeed and accomplish their goals. Desiring to serve individual needs, often work long hours. Quietly friendly, respectful, unassuming. Thrive on serving quietly without fanfare. Devoted to doing whatever is necessary to ensure shelter and safety, warning about pitfalls and dangers and supporting along the way.


At the end of the day though all the profiles are written (hopefully) by a healthy individual of that type and detail their behaviour, your life experiences will make you different from them in some ways. As an Fe user (I think...) if someone grew up in an abusive home or one where their parents were involved in hunting their idea of being nice would be based on that for example, so they'd look nothing like an Fe user from a happy, animal loving home (which everything you've written suggests you are :happy


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

I was just wondering...would it help it I made a video of myself? Using the questions in this thread: http://personalitycafe.com/member-photos-videos/10421-personality-cafe-video-challenge.html


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

If you do be aware that it takes ages - you'll probably make mistakes but you must post them anyway. Or get involved in a lengthly editing process... I'd love to see a video though :happy:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> If you do be aware that it takes ages - you'll probably make mistakes but you must post them anyway. Or get involved in a lengthly editing process... I'd love to see a video though :happy:


So...do I read the questions and answer them before I make the video or should the video be completely fresh? So I do no preparation I just answer the questions for the fist time as I'm recording?

I suppose if I don't prepare you will be able to see how I answer the questions and how long it takes me? It might be more revealing? I warn you though there will probably lots of pauses and hmmmm's.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

That would be up to you. You can't make a mistake if you aren't reading an answer and it will be more natural, but you risk going blank. Maybe bullet points would work well? 

I might have another go at it, my camera cuts off at 20 minutes which really annoyed me last time - hopefully my phone now goes longer :happy:

Oh and don't worry about the pauses!


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## Boots (Nov 26, 2010)

@Asmit

@Boots That's pretty close but your first two functions are always in "I" order. For the E types they swap, e.g. ENFJ is Fe Ni in the first two positions, because the person is an E the Xe function goes first (and the J tells you that that function is a judging one, so you can't label them as you have above the table. They are just 1st and 2nd). You did get the rest of the functions right though including the extended ones (MBTI officially only uses the first four)

Not sure what the notes in the bottom corner mean?​
So the combinations in my chart are correct, just the nomenclature is not? (The underlines indicate the dominant function, so yes, every other one is reversed).

After reading your comment I thought a bit more about what the heck I'm doing... I realized that in my head MBTI works because it's true (objectively true) which is why I've been drawn to it my whole life. If it is true then, like a math proof, we should be able to break it down and come at it from different angles and get the same answer. Since all that I've read about it just won't work in my brain I should be able to find another way to work it out and come to the same conclusion. Also, if one is having trouble determining their true type then coming at it from another angle might help... which is what drew me to this particular thread in the first place. 

Nomenclature is important in communicating to others - but knowing how and why ENFJ is Fe and Ni is the more important aspect to me (hence the way I organized my chart). The notes in the bottom corner are my attempt to figure out where the J/P fit in... so far my understanding is that the Judging and Perceiving functions are the core part of this. The primary issue is which two of do you use most. 

Then ~how~ you use each of them reflects or determines your I/E and P/J. It seems I/E determines the orientation of your dominant and auxiliary function. However I have a hard time with thinking the P/J are the ~cause~ of anything... it makes more sense in my head that if your Judging function is extroverted ~then~ you are a J, if it's introverted then you are a P (likewise if your Perceiving function is extroverted you're P and if introverted you're J). The reason I really like this is that if you are fairly certain of one of the two functions but have a harder time telling the other - you can still use that to determine if you are more likely P or J (in my world of how things work so far at least). 

I need to work with it more... I really feel like I need to chart this out in a circular pattern. Things with more than one dimension (in this case the N/S, T/J vs. e/i versions of each would count as two dimensions) seem to make more sense to me if I draw them out in circular patterns. Once I am happy that I truly understand it I'll be able to apply it to all the other stuff you guys have been posting.

Also.. with respect to the OP - is everyone sure Umbrellasky is Introvert?

~ Boots ~


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

Damn! I thought it might be something like that. Well I'll keep trying to find something and if I find anything (assuming I remember) I'll post it.


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

Boots said:


> @Asmit
> 
> @Boots That's pretty close but your first two functions are always in "I" order. For the E types they swap, e.g. ENFJ is Fe Ni in the first two positions, because the person is an E the Xe function goes first (and the J tells you that that function is a judging one, so you can't label them as you have above the table. They are just 1st and 2nd). You did get the rest of the functions right though including the extended ones (MBTI officially only uses the first four)
> 
> ...


Reading this reminded me of something. Say you're an INFJ, and you rely on your tertiary function more than your auxiliary. In this case it would be Ti. Would that lead you to have more P tendencies, since the Je function would make you decisive? Types with a Ji function in their dominant/ auxiliary are supposedly less controlling in their environment than those with Je.


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## Boots (Nov 26, 2010)

> Reading this reminded me of something. Say you're an INFJ, and you rely on your tertiary function more than your auxiliary. In this case it would be Ti. Would that lead you to have more P tendencies, since the Je function would make you decisive? Types with a Ji function in their dominant/ auxiliary are supposedly less controlling in their environment than those with Je.


I don't know the answer (Hopefully Asmit or Katykinz will comment). But I noticed you typed Je instead of Te.. I noticed that while making my chart I kept doing that and and had to erase the J's. I thought it was just a handwriting thing (putting a hook on my T) but maybe it's not 

~ Boots ~


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

Oh, Je is short for the Extraverted Judging functions, Fe and Te. :happy: Same goes for Ji.


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## Boots (Nov 26, 2010)

Ah! Thanks! 

Now I can play off my complete error as incredible insight :crazy:.

(I'm starting to think I may have strong Ti, as I want to rename the entire system in a way that makes sense to me :shocked:... *goes to fight her inner Ti*)

~ Boots ~


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

lilllllian said:


> Reading this reminded me of something. Say you're an INFJ, and you rely on your tertiary function more than your auxiliary. In this case it would be Ti. Would that lead you to have more P tendencies, since the Je function would make you decisive? Types with a Ji function in their dominant/ auxiliary are supposedly less controlling in their environment than those with Je.


There aren't really any J or P tendencies. An IXXJ would have two introverted functions while an EXXJ would have two extroverted ones - what do you think these would have in common? The whole point of looking at the functions is to forget all the I/E F/T stereotypes, once you work out your functions then the order you match it to a type while being completely unbiased (because all biases come from the invalid stereotypes).

You might want to read this thread which covers what people who skip their auxiliary function may act like. It's just a theory and some people think it's possible to live healthily rather than getting a disorder by doing this, so don't run off to a psychologist based on it (like I did :laughing


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

Boots said:


> Okay.. I think I've got it. Well, I'm convinced I've got it - but could you smart folks take a look and tell me if this appears correct?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Boots said:


> After reading your comment I thought a bit more about what the heck I'm doing... I realized that in my head MBTI works because it's true (objectively true) which is why I've been drawn to it my whole life. If it is true then, like a math proof, we should be able to break it down and come at it from different angles and get the same answer. Since all that I've read about it just won't work in my brain I should be able to find another way to work it out and come to the same conclusion. Also, if one is having trouble determining their true type then coming at it from another angle might help... which is what drew me to this particular thread in the first place.
> 
> Nomenclature is important in communicating to others - but knowing how and why ENFJ is Fe and Ni is the more important aspect to me (hence the way I organized my chart). The notes in the bottom corner are my attempt to figure out where the J/P fit in... so far my understanding is that the Judging and Perceiving functions are the core part of this. The primary issue is which two of do you use most.
> 
> ...


I've got to say Boots, your workings out give me a headache! But I follow them, and I get what you are doing, it's just in my head you seem to be making things unnecessarily complicated...whereas in your head this is making it easier for you to understand. I'll be very surprised if you don't turn out to be at the very least a Ti-aux, and you're probably Ti dom:happy:

It would probably make things easier if the MBTI system didn't insist on making the codes so uniform in order to group them as they do. If ENFJ could be called EFIN (extraverted feeling with introverted intuition) and INFP called IFEN (introverted feeling with extraverted intution) and INFJ could be called INEF (introverted intutition with extraverted feeling) etc etc then it would be a lot easier for people to figure out their functions. The problem is that the test doesn't test your cognitive functions - it tests on the I/E, N/S, T/F, J/P dichotomies, which confuses everyone, as they start out learning the differences between those 4 and picking their code, but then realise that they type might not quite fit, start looking into cognitive functions as a more accurate indicator, and then mix the two systems up.

If you're trying to figure out your type by cognitive functions then forget about the J/P thing completely - it means nothing of significance - it doesn't give you any traits in itself. What you need to work out is what your preferred functions are, and then map them onto the MBTI code once you're done.

You need to work out your dominant or auxillary function then work from there. If your dominant function is perceiving (N or S) then your aux and tert functions will be judging functions (F then T or T then F) with your aux function introverted if your dom function is extraverted and vice versa. And your inferior function will be the opposite perceiving function to your dominant function.

So for instance if we think you are Ti dom or aux that leaves you with the following options:

Ti-Ne-Si-Fe - maps on to MBTI INTP
Ti-Se-Ni-Fe - maps on to MBTI ISTP
Ne-Ti-Fe-Si - maps on to MBTI ENTP
Se-Ti-Fe-Ni - maps on to MBTI ESTP

From there we would have to work out if you use Ne and Si or Se and Ni, and then work out whether you use the perceiving function (Se or Ne) first, or the judging function (Ti) first.

The trouble we're having with umbrellasky is figuring out which functions are dominant - there's nothing that stands out t o give us enough of a clue. When we can't see categorically that she is Fe over Fi, or Ne over Ni or Se over Si or Te over Ti from what she's told us so far. I think she's using Fi and Ne which would mean she's INFP or ENFP. Asmit is arguing that he sees more Si in her than N and he thinks she using more Fe than Fi - so that would make her ISFJ or ESFJ. Trouble is that we are not experts in cognitive theory and we can only guess based on what umbrella is telling us, which obviously isn't her whole day-to-day experience. In answer to your question - no we are not necessarily sure she is an introvert, although she feels introverted. She could be a quiet and introverted ENFP or something.

I really get the sense that she is some kind of F dom though - so that would make her INFP, ISFP, ENFJ or ESFJ.



umbrellasky said:


> Would this also be Ni:
> 
> If I am invited out somewhere I imaging what sort of people will be there and I try to think about the kinds of conversations I will have with them.
> 
> ...


Personally, I think both of these are Ne.





> Hmm I don't think I veer of the conversaton myself. Unless something pops into my head that excites me and I feel the need to get it out there, but even then I like to bring the conversation back to the original topic out of courtesy for the other person. I don't want them to feel like I interrupted their thoughts. Although I sometimes enjoy going for the ride I hate being interrupted I like to finish what I'm saying.
> 
> I think I've always been the follower. I learnt to instigate from my friends. I had this one friends who was brilliant at coming up with role play games which involved pretending we were animals and I would always go along with this and from her I learnt to make up my own games.


And there you go clearly showing you are not Ne-dom :laughing:



lilllllian said:


> Reading this reminded me of something. Say you're an INFJ, and you rely on your tertiary function more than your auxiliary. In this case it would be Ti. Would that lead you to have more P tendencies, since the Je function would make you decisive? Types with a Ji function in their dominant/ auxiliary are supposedly less controlling in their environment than those with Je.


In theory, probably, but like I said earlier, I can't mix the two things up (cognitive functions and I/E, N/S, T/F, J/P dichotomies). There are no P or J traits/tendencies when you are deciding your type based on cognitive processes.


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> In theory, probably, but like I said earlier, I can't mix the two things up (cognitive functions and I/E, N/S, T/F, J/P dichotomies). There are no P or J traits/tendencies when you are deciding your type based on cognitive processes.


I was going in the direction of trying to decide your type. Those with Ji functions as dom/ aux, seem to have a harder time trying to type themselves, as they're more open to information. Not saying those with Je are narrow-minded, but from what I've read, once they make a decision, they roll with it.


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

lilllllian said:


> I was going in the direction of trying to decide your type. Those with Ji functions as dom/ aux, seem to have a harder time trying to type themselves, as they're more open to information. Not saying those with Je are narrow-minded, but from what I've read, once they make a decision, they roll with it.


OK, I'm with you - certainly food for thought. But I don't know about that just based on my experience. I am Fe-aux and it took me 9 months to decide I was INFJ. I went through about 3 months designating myself as INFP, then 4 as ENFP then a couple of months XNFX. Maybe it's being Ni-dom that caused the problem for me (if Asmit sticks with his current INTJ and Nobleheart with his INFJ that just adds proof to my theory). I would hazard a guess that having a perceiving function dominant causes most delay in typing yourself, as you are less apt to need to make a judgement quickly. So maybe Je doms will make the fastest decision whereas Pi doms will take the longest, and Ji doms and Pe doms somewhere in between?

Maybe you should make a poll :happy:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> OK, I'm with you - certainly food for thought. But I don't know about that just based on my experience. I am Fe-aux and it took me 9 months to decide I was INFJ. I went through about 3 months designating myself as INFP, then 4 as ENFP then a couple of months XNFX. Maybe it's being Ni-dom that caused the problem for me (if Asmit sticks with his current INTJ and Nobleheart with his INFJ that just adds proof to my theory).


Well I've gone the slightly backwards route to making a decision - I do not use Si at all. I don't experience people/things/tastes or anything else stimulating memeories from my past (even accepting I only have 12 years that's long enough to build a "database" to relate to). I also thought about the *why* of my enjoying house moving - it's just another system to organise in the most efficient way possible. There are never any emotions involved and everyone wants the job done ASAP so they can relax so it's the perfect playground for Te :happy:

Next I looked back over my hobbies and life story and observed that in my early life I was pretty much forced to be out experiencing but once left to my own devices I settled into Introverted iNtuitive mode by living mostly in my head. Only recently (past 5 years) have have I started to enjoy the great outdoors - which doesn't exactly show strong Se either. I also never really took things as literally as I am now (damn "semantics" :laughing which I'm going to attribute to my Se waking up and taking notice of "what is" in the present moment, be it a squirrel I've heard high up in a tree or the exact literal meaning of a sentence. I hope this will calm down, at least the words side of things...

Through trying to trigger some strong enough responses from umbrellasky I found that some of my Fi inspired beliefs are rather weak and this was seconded by kateykinz :laughing: So yes, Fi is there but it's not great and I'd rather squash it with logic so I'm rethinking on those issues along with anything else. Next week I may have a completely different outlook on the world. Again... In short I'm sticking with INTJ, which is hardly surprising given that I'm an Enneagram type 1. But I agree that having a dominant P function just insists on checking out every option making typing slower.


Back on topic, I'm now going to agree with kateykinz that umbrellasky is an XNFP, I'm leaning strongly towards INFP as well but hopefully her video will confirm that. The final quote that swayed me?



umbrellasky said:


> I don't know how else to describe how I feel. I just think you are wrong.


I did think Fi for most of this thread so it's not a complete about turn  There was alot more written and it's not lacking in passion as with the first response, she was just being nice :happy: She also enjoyed optimising some processes to make everyone more efficient at work and that's definitely a Te thing. No mention of relieving the pressure to make them feel better just "I enjoyed making things more efficient". Very Te, but not a big part of her personality.


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

asmit127 said:


> Back on topic, I'm now going to agree with kateykinz that umbrellasky is an XNFP, I'm leaning strongly towards INFP as well but hopefully her video will confirm that.


Cripes! Don't agree with me, it makes me nervous :laughing:
Not you in particular...just in case I hurt your feelings (that are there, hidden behind your logic).

I noticed your edit anyway. Strange that you should try and sneak it in with nobody noticing?


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> Cripes! Don't agree with me, it makes me nervous :laughing:
> Not you in particular...just in case I hurt your feelings (that are there, hidden behind your logic).
> 
> I noticed your edit anyway. Strange that you should try and sneak it in with nobody noticing?


You've obviously been doing some reading, why be nervous? :happy:

Is that a reminder to the INFXs viewing this thread that INTJs still have emotions? I'm sure they'll thank you for that :crazy:. It's true though, all humans are soft on the inside!

As for my edit - I'm a perfectionist. It "should" be right first time but there were easy improvements available so I couldn't resist...


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Thanks again for all your help. Hopefully my video will confirm my type. I'll try to record my video on Wednesday or Thursday I should have some free time on one of those days. 

I also wanted to add that...is it normal for me to want to post in the INFJ forum more than any of the other forums. I sometimes post in INFP but I don't feel as...comfortable (not the word I was looking for) as I do when posting in the INFJ forum. I don't know if it is the topics or if it is purely that the INFJ forum is where I started so it is more familiar to me? I just feel like I 'relate' to you more for some reason. 

And when I go into the INFJ forum I get the impression that most of the people there are maybe 'older' or perhaps more 'mature'? Whereas the INFP forum seem...younger...hmm not sure if I'm explaining this right.


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> OK, I'm with you - certainly food for thought. But I don't know about that just based on my experience. I am Fe-aux and it took me 9 months to decide I was INFJ. I went through about 3 months designating myself as INFP, then 4 as ENFP then a couple of months XNFX. Maybe it's being Ni-dom that caused the problem for me (if Asmit sticks with his current INTJ and Nobleheart with his INFJ that just adds proof to my theory). I would hazard a guess that having a perceiving function dominant causes most delay in typing yourself, as you are less apt to need to make a judgement quickly. So maybe Je doms will make the fastest decision whereas Pi doms will take the longest, and Ji doms and Pe doms somewhere in between?
> 
> Maybe you should make a poll :happy:


My belief is that it's the other way around. In order of who would have the hardest time:

*Pe dom*- Their Ji function is aux, and their first inclination is to look at all the possibilities

*Ji dom*- They may be in touch with themselves, but their aux is Pe and they too would want to consider other options- this could be the case for INFP's and other Percievers

*Pi dom*- Their dom is perceiving, but their Je function would keep them grounded in their decisions. This is why I'm theorizing that if they developed their tertiary over their aux, they might have a harder time settling on a type.
*
Je dom*- most settled in their decisions based externally. 



umbrellasky said:


> Thanks again for all your help. Hopefully my video will confirm my type. I'll try to record my video on Wednesday or Thursday I should have some free time on one of those days.
> 
> I also wanted to add that...is it normal for me to want to post in the INFJ forum more than any of the other forums. I sometimes post in INFP but I don't feel as...comfortable (not the word I was looking for) as I do when posting in the INFJ forum. I don't know if it is the topics or if it is purely that the INFJ forum is where I started so it is more familiar to me? I just feel like I 'relate' to you more for some reason.
> 
> And when I go into the INFJ forum I get the impression that most of the people there are maybe 'older' or perhaps more 'mature'? Whereas the INFP forum seem...younger...hmm not sure if I'm explaining this right.


I agree. In comparison, they certainly have a different feel.

Oh, and sorry for veering off topic.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> The trouble we're having with umbrellasky is figuring out which functions are dominant - there's nothing that stands out t o give us enough of a clue. When we can't see categorically that she is Fe over Fi, or Ne over Ni or Se over Si or Te over Ti from what she's told us so far. I think she's using Fi and Ne which would mean she's INFP or ENFP. Asmit is arguing that he sees more Si in her than N and he thinks she using more Fe than Fi - so that would make her ISFJ or ESFJ. Trouble is that we are not experts in cognitive theory and we can only guess based on what umbrella is telling us, which obviously isn't her whole day-to-day experience. In answer to your question - no we are not necessarily sure she is an introvert, although she feels introverted. She could be a quiet and introverted ENFP or something.


Thanks, kateykinz! I needed that summary after reading through way to many pages trying to catch up. This was an impressive thread. I'm sorry I couldn't be around to join in...



umbrellasky said:


> Thanks again for all your help. Hopefully my video will confirm my type. I'll try to record my video on Wednesday or Thursday I should have some free time on one of those days.


..and I'm eagerly awaiting the video... 



> I also wanted to add that...is it normal for me to want to post in the INFJ forum more than any of the other forums. I sometimes post in INFP but I don't feel as...comfortable (not the word I was looking for) as I do when posting in the INFJ forum. I don't know if it is the topics or if it is purely that the INFJ forum is where I started so it is more familiar to me? I just feel like I 'relate' to you more for some reason.
> 
> And when I go into the INFJ forum I get the impression that most of the people there are maybe 'older' or perhaps more 'mature'? Whereas the INFP forum seem...younger...hmm not sure if I'm explaining this right.


Yeah, I get what you mean. That's a good question why, really! I wouldn't think that the INFJs are older on average... hmm...


And @kateykinz , do you mind "typing" me too by those questions?


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

penchant said:


> And @kateykinz , do you mind "typing" me too by those questions?


Oh, is someone doubting themselves? :wink:


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

lilllllian said:


> Oh, is someone doubting themselves? :wink:


Not seriously, no. But a NiFe can never get too many second opinions... :laughing:


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

<<< Suddenly doesn't feel so alone. lol


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## lilllllian (Feb 9, 2010)

penchant said:


> Not seriously, no. But a NiFe can never get too many second opinions... :laughing:


So I just read your signature, and I wanted to ask. Have there ever been times where you felt like you didn't want to hear another perspective, but NEEDED to in order to gain the truth? I'm usually very wary of new information because I know it would screw up my certainty, but I need to gain it because I can't handle not being informed.


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

penchant said:


> And @kateykinz , do you mind "typing" me too by those questions?


@penchant
Of course I don't mind but I have to warn you that I'll be extremely biased. I'm so convinced about your Fe/Ti combo and that you are intuitive over sensing that you can only possibly be an INFJ or ENTP, and you are nowhere near enough of a jerk to be an ENTP :dry:

(No offense to any ENTPs out there, if you know my history you'll know ENTPs are probably my favourite type).

Which questions are you referring to anyway, those Ne/Ni ones? 

The thing is, Ni-doms use Ne quite a bit, it's just not our natural go-to function. On my own I have to concentrate to use it, but stick me in a room full of Ne-doms and I can go just about as crazy with it as they do - but they always have to instigate it.

Edit: by the way Penchant, your new sig explains exactly why I feel nervous when people start agreeing with me. When I "win" an argument, all of a sudden people think I'm more knowledgeable than I believe myself to be and I get performance anxiety as I don't wish to let them down with my ineptitude :crazy:


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> The thing is, Ni-doms use Ne quite a bit, it's just not our natural go-to function. :


Hmm so having higher (say for example) Fi/Fe and Se/Si than either N or T wouldn't necessarily be unusual?


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Thanks again for all your help. Hopefully my video will confirm my type. I'll try to record my video on Wednesday or Thursday I should have some free time on one of those days.


That's days away! :crazy:



umbrellasky said:


> I also wanted to add that...is it normal for me to want to post in the INFJ forum more than any of the other forums. I sometimes post in INFP but I don't feel as...comfortable (not the word I was looking for) as I do when posting in the INFJ forum. I don't know if it is the topics or if it is purely that the INFJ forum is where I started so it is more familiar to me? I just feel like I 'relate' to you more for some reason.
> 
> And when I go into the INFJ forum I get the impression that most of the people there are maybe 'older' or perhaps more 'mature'? Whereas the INFP forum seem...younger...hmm not sure if I'm explaining this right.


The INFP forum is a strange place, http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/35277-infp-archetype-undecided.html has some peoples views on why that may be but here's a summary of my explanation. 

Stereotypically every insecure person with few friends who is nice but messy and considers themself intelligent will come out as INFP on the tests - so probably many are mistyped but wont question it because the INFP section really is full of people just like them. Because they have few friends they are depressed and moan alot. 

In comparison INFJs are rare, and on entering the INFJ section there aren't as many threads moaning about life so the newbies don't fit in. Then they question their type and see INFP as only one letter away, INFJ is rare and there are lots of people moaning just one letter away - that must be what they are! Short of banning new INFPs the problem appears to be self sustaining :mellow:

You will have your type under your name so you can post where you want - just don't answer polls meant for INFJs only and no-one will care. This is supposed to be a site to enjoy discussing stuff as well as working yourself out :happy:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

lilllllian said:


> Oh, is someone doubting themselves? :wink:


As a probable Ni dominant I can see why he would - Ni takes lots of options and decides on the likeliest answer but still isn't sure it is correct. I was really leaning towards ISTJ despite it being obvious to everyone who's ever tried to type me I'm iNtuitive - I could mould my life and explain how things logically followed on basing it on INTP, INFJ, ISTP and now INTJ functions.



penchant said:


> But a NiFe can never get too many second opinions... :laughing:


If it helps for your efforts typing others in the future nor can NiTe :laughing:



kateykinz said:


> Of course I don't mind but I have to warn you that I'll be extremely biased. I'm so convinced about your Fe/Ti combo and that you are intuitive over sensing that you can only possibly be an INFJ or ENTP, and you are nowhere near enough of a jerk to be an ENTP


Like you were sure I was Fe/Ti? (just knocking your confidence so you'll keep an open mind...)


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

asmit127 said:


> Like you were sure I was Fe/Ti? (just knocking your confidence so you'll keep an open mind...)


I was never sure about anything with you. After getting scorched having taken everything you said at face value when we were trying to figure out your enneagram type, the only thing I was sure about was that you were likely to be convinced that you were a type that you weren't, and very skilled at convincing everybody else that you were that type :laughing:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Ahoy!

So I've recorded my video...and it's taken me all day to edit. Windows Live Movie Maker is so slow!!

This is the first half, it's 10 minutes long. I'll post the second half tomorrow because I haven't sorted that bit out yet *sigh*. Who knows this video might be enough to go on.

I don't think I answered the questions very well. I decided not to think about them before I started recording so I'm sorry if I bore you all to death or if I make no sense with my rambling. And sorry for poor sound quality...

Here it is:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Sorry to say the video is private so we can't see it - most people set them unlisted so they don't show up in search but you cant make it private. Glad to see you got it to work though :happy:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Sorry to say the video is private so we can't see it - most people set them unlisted so they don't show up in search but you cant make it private. Glad to see you got it to work though :happy:


Oops! Should work now :laughing:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Now I'm supposed to be analysing the video but I've just been reading about how knowing stuff about someone before interacting with them creates a severe bias towards seeing whatever you have already decided the person to be... it was very convincing and more than enough to undermine my confidence  So I'm going to go and cook/eat and have another try later, when I've forgotten that everything I think I see I'm probably making up :crazy:

As to the video it looks good and the sound is fine - it's not even quiet :happy:


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

It's a shame the video ended when it did, as it seemed you had just started relaxing into it a bit more and were conversing a little more spontaneously.

Anyway, I'd like to see more before I assess it, but for now I don't see anything that necessarily changes my mind :happy:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> It's a shame the video ended when it did, as it seemed you had just started relaxing into it a bit more and were conversing a little more spontaneously.
> 
> Anyway, I'd like to see more before I assess it, but for now I don't see anything that necessarily changes my mind :happy:


Thanks! :laughing:

Well, I've accidently deleted the other 10 minutes of my video...it was snowing yesterday and in my excitement I deleted the video from my camera! I thought I had moved the file from my memory card onto my computer but it looks like I hadn't!...I'll try to re-record the last bit today. :laughing:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> It's a shame the video ended when it did, as it seemed you had just started relaxing into it a bit more and were conversing a little more spontaneously


I thought that but wasn't sure if it was me adjusting to her style :laughing: I did have some observations but am going to hold out for the second part especially as it needs re-recording. Wouldn't want to give umbrellasky the chance of acting away what I thought I saw :crazy:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Here is the second half :laughing:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> I thought that but wasn't sure if it was me adjusting to her style :laughing: I did have some observations but am going to hold out for the second part especially as it needs re-recording. Wouldn't want to give umbrellasky the chance of *acting away what I thought I saw* :crazy:


Oooh what did you see?

I can't wait to hear what you all think...


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Well that second part was a bit different! Even from the first part you seemed far too comfortable in front of the camera and there was no annoyance as if it was the second (or more) try, and little annoyance at not having an answer straight away. 

In the first one your expression dropped back to deadpan very quickly and though you claimed the questions were "fuzzy" (or something like that) it was interesting that you only attacked them from one angle, like the "fit in or stand out" one - one way you stand out and that you thought that was good but it appeared before you answered that you weren't sure if you preferred fitting in or standing out, yet provided no example of when you fit in. And no conclusive answer to the actual question... You also mentioned not justifying spending money on clothes but didn't suggest a better use for it. I was also surprised by the amount of hand gestures throughout both parts. 

The second intro was great too - as telling as, if not more than, the questions. There wasn't a whole lot of sympathy for the other sleepers and the practicality of dented baking trays was an interesting mention. It almost makes you look like you love being in the spotlight which seems strange for an introvert. Then there's the worrying about all the details of a party. The only INFP I've met "planned" to go to a gig in London by arriving at the train station and getting on the first train (no prebooked ticket) and two days before hadn't even looked up where the venue was... I was horrified by this :laughing:

Then there's your hair twiddling, usually a sign of unease. An introvert not at ease should surely not be as freely talkative as you are?

I'm sure someone will come along and tell me I'm wrong but that's my initial impressions. I'd love to suggest functions but you've strayed so far from what I was expecting I'm really not prepared. Sorry! :mellow:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Well that second part was a bit different! Even from the first part you seemed far too comfortable in front of the camera and there was no annoyance as if it was the second (or more) try, and little annoyance at not having an answer straight away.
> 
> In the first one your expression dropped back to deadpan very quickly and though you claimed the questions were "fuzzy" (or something like that) it was interesting that you only attacked them from one angle, like the "fit in or stand out" one - one way you stand out and that you thought that was good but it appeared before you answered that you weren't sure if you preferred fitting in or standing out, yet provided no example of when you fit in. And no conclusive answer to the actual question... You also mentioned not justifying spending money on clothes but didn't suggest a better use for it. I was also surprised by the amount of hand gestures throughout both parts.
> 
> ...


Ok so from this it looks like I don't know how to answer questions properly! And the hair twiddling...until I watched these videos I didn't even realise that I did it! 

I do use hand gestures a lot! I know that much about myself haha. I notice it even more when I'm talking to my Japanese housemates, I think it might be a culture thing because they start looking at my hands when I'm talking to them lol. 

Sympathy for the sleepers...hmm well I think the sympathy was there it just amused me that my housemate felt the need to get everyone up to go make snow men...so I guess I was more focused on my amusement of her doing that then sympathising for the other housemates. 

Do I love being in the spotlight...well I've never thought of myself as that sort of person. I suppose I want people to think I'm talented and I want to excel and I guess to answer that question truthfully I suppose I do want to stand out but my shyness (and anxiety disorder) holds me back. 

Freely talkative...if I feel that I have something interesting to say or I feel passionate/excited about something then I want to share it with everyone. Most of the time I get shot down and then I'm disappointed that no one else is interested. 

The second video was recorded after I had a fun day messing in the snow so I guess I was quite relaxed and I felt like I had a lot to say...and when I have a lot to say I can be very talkative.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> Well that second part was a bit different! Even from the first part you seemed far too comfortable in front of the camera and there was no annoyance as if it was the second (or more) try, and little annoyance at not having an answer straight away.
> 
> In the first one your expression dropped back to deadpan very quickly and though you claimed the questions were "fuzzy" (or something like that) it was interesting that you only attacked them from one angle, like the "fit in or stand out" one - one way you stand out and that you thought that was good but it appeared before you answered that you weren't sure if you preferred fitting in or standing out, yet provided no example of when you fit in. And no conclusive answer to the actual question... You also mentioned not justifying spending money on clothes but didn't suggest a better use for it. I was also surprised by the amount of hand gestures throughout both parts.
> 
> ...


So are you thinking that I'm not INFP? Or have I completely confused you? 

And, "you've strayed so far from what I was expecting," what were you expecting?


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> So are you thinking that I'm not INFP? Or have I completely confused you?
> 
> And, "you've strayed so far from what I was expecting," what were you expecting?


Yeah I'm confused... I don't know what I was expecting but not that much enthusiasm. And definitely not Audioslave being played on a Ukulele! :crazy: I guess compared to singing while playing just answering a couple of questions is nothing, while I was expecting an anxious video virgin. Should have checked out your other videos before commenting and then maybe I'd not have been so surprised... 

Not that there's anything wrong with surprises :happy:


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

lilllllian said:


> So I just read your signature, and I wanted to ask. Have there ever been times where you felt like you didn't want to hear another perspective, but NEEDED to in order to gain the truth? I'm usually very wary of new information because I know it would screw up my certainty, but I need to gain it because I can't handle not being informed.


Yes, not being informed isn't something I would appreciate. It's not that I feel that I need _more_ data, though. If I already know things, then I would generally be happy to extrapolate and draw conclusions from what I know. More data is of course always useful, and if I knew I could get more, I don't see many situations were I wouldn't want more. Really only if I was short on time, actually. Other than that, I'm always curious about what other people think, and like to learn more about the world.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> If it helps for your efforts typing others in the future nor can NiTe :laughing:


A Ni dom thing, right? :laughing:


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks a lot! I did watch both videos right now, and that was interesting and gave me some to think about. I've taken some notes, but I'll wait until tomorrow and re-watch before I post. Hopefully also kateykinz will have time to post before me... :laughing:


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm trying to understand cognitive functions so that I can work out my personality type. I have read lots of material about the different functions but I still can't work out what functions I use the most. The only way I can figure out how to do this is by posting examples of my behaviour and you guys telling me what functions I was using at the time.
> 
> ...


I don't think you were using one single function. It looks like you were very rational about it, so that's Te.

Then you didn't think it's necessary to make a big issue out of it which makes me think you´re introverted. That puts Te in the second position, which means INTJ or ISTJ. I'm going for ISTJ but can't explain it (My Ni just points at that direction and I don't want to spend time on thinking this through.)


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

Umbrellasky - you show mad Ni Drift in your eyes - if you believe in that particular theory. But you don't have the intense, see right through you, typical gaze that INFJs are supposed to have. And although INFJs don't express themselves as well in speech as in writing, I do believe that you will find that most INFJs have a more direct conversational style than you.

Other than that...I don't know, it's really difficult, and the videos are totally different to each other. Do you feel that the first or second video is more representative of who you are on a daily basis?

You seem to go off topic fairly easily when you are feeling relaxed and talkative - I'm sure you are an N but I can't tell for sure if it is Ni or Ne. You seem to have a hard time going into any kind of specifics on topics - you keep going back to liking art but you don't say what kind of art appeals to you, or what kind of art you are good at etc. Not sure if that is an N thing or a F thing?

You have very similar speaking style and mannerisms to my sister-in-law who I have always typed as an INFP. She has very strongly held beliefs but they never seem to make it out of her mouth as strong convictions, they seem rather vague and so to a casual observer you wouldn't think that these things were of such great importance to her as they are.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> Umbrellasky - you show mad Ni Drift in your eyes - if you believe in that particular theory. But you don't have the intense, see right through you, typical gaze that INFJs are supposed to have. And although INFJs don't express themselves as well in speech as in writing, I do believe that you will find that most INFJs have a more direct conversational style than you.
> 
> Other than that...I don't know, it's really difficult, and the videos are totally different to each other. Do you feel that the first or second video is more representative of who you are on a daily basis?
> 
> ...


Oh no...I was really hoping that the videos would help. I'm not sure which one is more me. The first is me when I don't have external stimulation and the second is after external stimulation (I had just got back from playing in the snow with my housemates). 

I'll get my brother to watch them and ask him what he thinks...


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Peter said:


> I don't think you were using one single function. It looks like you were very rational about it, so that's Te.
> 
> Then you didn't think it's necessary to make a big issue out of it which makes me think you´re introverted. That puts Te in the second position, which means INTJ or ISTJ. I'm going for ISTJ but can't explain it (My Ni just points at that direction and I don't want to spend time on thinking this through.)


Hi, thanks for your input but I'm definitely not either of those.

I may not have reacted the way my friends did but that was because it seemed wrong, and that I thought they were overreacting. 

I didn't mention this in my original post, but one of my other housemates who was there at the time said she agreed with me, I complained to her about it afterwards. So me taking offence to the situation and then complaining about it to my other housemater, would that be Fi?


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm feeling really disappointed with myself now...

Would it help if I made a video diary over the next couple of days? Just short clips, no more than 10mins each talking about my day? Perhaps answering a list of questions isn't the best way to it?

If my brother was here I'd try to get him on the video too so that you could see how I interact with others, maybe I can do that over xmas (I go home in 3 weeks!). 

I'll let you know what he says about the two videos.

Oh and...I realise that watching these videos and trying to work out my type must be taking up a lot of your time and I really, really appreciate that. :blushed:


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I'm feeling really disappointed with myself now...
> 
> Would it help if I made a video diary over the next couple of days? Just short clips, no more than 10mins each talking about my day? Perhaps answering a list of questions isn't the best way to it?
> 
> ...


No please don't be disappointed. There's a lot in there, but it takes a little time to work it out...

That doesn't mean that even more data couldn't be helpful, like a videoblog or so, but that would obviously take more of your time. If you do one however, I'd be happy to follow and comment. And talking about your day would give more input that way as well...

Another thought on the interaction thing, was to setup up a webcam conversation and post on youtube. I'm not into that, so I don't know how to do it, but I've seen things like it, so it should be possible. So that you don't have to wait until Christmas, that is.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

penchant said:


> No please don't be disappointed. There's a lot in there, but it takes a little time to work it out...
> 
> That doesn't mean that even more data couldn't be helpful, like a videoblog or so, but that would obviously take more of your time. If you do one however, I'd be happy to follow and comment. And talking about your day would give more input that way as well...
> 
> Another thought on the interaction thing, was to setup up a webcam conversation and post on youtube. I'm not into that, so I don't know how to do it, but I've seen things like it, so it should be possible. So that you don't have to wait until Christmas, that is.


Thank you :laughing:

I forgot about webcam conversations! I sometimes talk to my family on msn so I'll see if it will let me record my conversation. My brother should have some free time this weekend so I'll try and do it then. 

Thanks again for your help! :laughing:


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I'm feeling really disappointed with myself now...


What on earth for? Because you don't perfectly fit anyones idea of an INFP? That you can appear different on different days says as much about your personality as the answers to the questions or the way they are delivered.



umbrellasky said:


> thanks for your input but I'm definitely not either of those


Hmm... interesting that you are still trying desperately to cling to some part of the INF... Will I get as blunt a rebuttal for saying I'm not entirely convinced? :laughing: 



umbrellasky said:


> Would it help if I made a video diary over the next couple of days? Just short clips, no more than 10mins each talking about my day? Perhaps answering a list of questions isn't the best way to it?


Maybe it would, if you have time. One taken on your return from your longest day of lectures would be interesting, or having spent time with people but not "doing" anything physical. And maybe one at the end of a day where you have spent most of it alone working? I mean, if you want your whole life being analysed feel free to post daily - if people have time they can watch it, if not you might learn something just by watching it back :happy:



umbrellasky said:


> I forgot about webcam conversations! I sometimes talk to my family on msn so I'll see if it will let me record my conversation. My brother should have some free time this weekend so I'll try and do it then.


Great, that will be interesting especially as he's an undeniable INTX (from what you've said...)


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

umbrellasky said:


> The first is me when I don't have external stimulation and the second is after external stimulation (I had just got back from playing in the snow with my housemates).


So the point is, you seemed very much more energized in the second video. Do you always get energized by social interaction? Or only after a short amount of interaction whereas lengthy interaction tires you? Or only after interaction that involves some physical activity as well?


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

kateykinz said:


> So the point is, you seemed very much more energized in the second video. Do you always get energized by social interaction? Or only after a short amount of interaction whereas lengthy interaction tires you? Or only after interaction that involves some physical activity as well?


If there is physical activity like dancing in a nightclub, and running around in the snow I get very energised and I feel like I can go on and on. Then when I stop I crash out because I'm so tired. We have an acting society at our uni, I went to one of the sessions and it was very active throughout, lots of games and interacting with each other, this made me feel very energetic and talkative, but then afterwards I just want to sleep.

When I come home from my lectures I feel exhausted! I got back from my lecture today at 2pm, had lunch and now I'm ready for a nap (I'm about to have one). So being talked at and also having to think of things to say back to the tutor and in groups is very tiring for me. 

I'd say that I prefer short interaction. These last few days have been very tiring for me. Lots of playing in the snow and watching films with my housemates. I need a day or two inbetween doing these things to recover, but I go along with it because I don't want to miss out on all the fun. 

My last job was in Human Resources. I worked full-time for a while and I couldn't cope with it. I get easily stressed when I'm put in situations of responsibility and I've had health problems because I get so tense and anxious. When I changed to part-time I found that I could cope much better. My managers kept trying to get me to apply for jobs that were a higher grade because they thought I was capable of so much more, but I doubt myself so much and when more is expected of me the perfectionist in me comes out and I end up making myself ill. Sorry this last bit doesn't really answer the question...

I just felt that working full-time I was constantly around people and I couldn't focus on one thing, everyday I was having to multitask. So working part-time allowed me to recover on my days off. 

I've just recorded another video, and it touches on this subject a little. I'll post it here when it's finished uploading. 

:happy:


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

Hmmm...I was thinking that perhaps you might be a really reserved ENFP (ENFPS need a lot more alone time than most extroverts to recharge). But from your post above it seems more likely that you do have strong Fe after all - introverts with strong Fe are energised by social interaction, even if it tires them in the long run.

But strong doesn't mean it has to be in the top two functions. It is probably in position 1, 2, 5 or 6 though. So that doesn't really help any, sorry :laughing:


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## Boots (Nov 26, 2010)

Katy, what of her above post shouts Fe to you? (I still don't feel like I have a really good grip on Fe) 

~ Boots ~


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## kateykinz (Nov 19, 2009)

Nothing shouts it...just if she is energised by interacting with people but isn't an extravert, it hints heavily that Fe is involved in the equation somewhere. As a rule, even though it may drain them, INFJs and ISFJs enjoy being around people more than most introverts.


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## Boots (Nov 26, 2010)

Interesting... thanks!

~ Boots ~


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Ok...I'm starting to think I should give up on trying to understand functions and to understand what functions I use...

I asked my brother to look at the two videos and I asked him if he thought I was being myself and he said:

"I dunno."

Which is typical of him! I can never get a straight answer.

So I tried to to get him to give me an answer and he said, "I like how you made the first question 'what makes you angry' about people."

So I try to get him to tell me more and he is impossible! He said the second video "you look like you've been injecting caffeine." and then said that I was obviously still in a good mood from the day I had.

So I try to get more from him and he says "I dunno, you seem very unsure."
And again he said "I dunno you seem on edge. Not natural"

He also said I'm 'quieter' than how I come across on these videos.

So I guess these videos aren't reliable because according to him I'm not being myself. I'll ask him tomorrow if I can record a conversation between him and I. Maybe that will help...

I have made another video today, one that my brother hasn't seen yet, but I might as well post it. This is so frustrating :sad:


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Ok apologies for the next few, very long posts! I’ve tried to have a good think about my answers and to be as thorough as possible. I hope I’ve cleared up any contradictions that I have made. 

Also, I apologise if I’m missed any questions, feel free to pick me up on these. I’ve tried to go through the thread pick them out, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I’ve missed some. 



penchant said:


> Speaking of childhood, have you seen this: Kids' Personality Portraits


I was going to ask my mum to read those but she can be a bit difficult to approach and is already questioning my ‘obsession’ with finding my type. I think IFP is most like me between 7-12 years old. 



penchant said:


> And related to that: at what at age were you first bullied, and can you see that it changed your personality?


I think I was first bullied at the age of 7 or 8 and I can’t remember what my personality was like before then. I have low self esteem and self confidence and I believe this is likely to be one of the reasons for it. I was also bullied in primary school and secondary school. 



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > I could relate to Se and Ti in the first example and also Fi and Fe (couldn't decide between the two). The first part of Se "You might look at the apple tree and notice the contrast of the ruby red apples and the deep green leaves, the rich brown-gray of the trunk and branches, and how the sunlight plays across the yard. " I definitely relate to.
> ...


I agree I think I would imagine the details rather than notice them…I think I’d ‘feel’ them rather than see them, if that makes sense?



penchant said:


> umbrellaksy said:
> 
> 
> > So I went behind their back and emailed housing asking for advice. I didn't give housing my friends’ names or the house that they live in. It was just an enquiry email asking for advice on what the procedure is for this sort of situation. They replied to me saying that my friends will need to contact them directly.
> ...


In this case I had suggested to my friends to contact housing but they were reluctant. So I thought if I went behind there backs to try and find out more information I could then go back to them with the information to back up my original suggestion. I didn’t tell them what I was doing because I didn’t want to upset them.

At my last workplace I used to create a lot of projects for myself or try to improve processes. This was all done behind the scenes and then I’d present what I’m working on to my managers once it was near completion or if I needed help. I like to make sure that I have done all that I can do before I show anyone what I’m working on. I suppose I did it because I liked to keep myself occupied and I wanted to work things out for myself before anyone could interfere…I just like to be prepared! 

I also like to make sure that I know something well enough before committing to it or having an opinion on it. I think my opinions change a lot because I’m constantly learning new things. 



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > * I sometimes jump too quickly into an activity and don’t allow enough time to think it over.
> ...


Did I say all of those things…hmm well I completely contradicted myself there didn’t I?

It depends on the situation. When I think about my assignments for University I spend a lot of time thinking about them and it isn’t until a few days before the deadline that I actually start working on them…

I know in my videos I come across as very talkative and possibly impulsive? But when I’m talking to other people I can be quite slow because it takes me a while to think about what I’m trying to say. And the more people there are in the room the quieter I become.

If I’m excited about a subject I can talk very quickly and enthusiastically. So it all depends on the situation really…



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > I could relate to how they were feeling because I remembered feeling the same way.
> ...


I’d say Fi because it was very emotional for me, much more than just an observation. 



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > Although at my last place of work, once I had settled into my role, I pretty much sorted out all of the procedures and wrote lists of instructions on how to do things. [...] It was quite enjoyable sorting everything out.
> ...


I agree Te.



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > Another reason for not thinking I'm extrovert is that I need lots of time alone to reflect on things. Being around people all the time makes me irritable and drains me. I also find it difficult to open up to people about my inner most thoughts and feelings, even to my own family.
> ...


Well…after living with my housemates for 12 weeks I’m glad to be home again because they were starting to get on my nerves. I suppose I find that being around people for short amounts of time is a good thing but any longer than that I need time out for myself. 

I’d just like to pick up on this last part that I said: “I also find it difficult to open up to people about my inner most thoughts and feelings, even to my own family.”

I disagree with myself here. I don’t open up to my mum very often, but I do talk to my brother a lot about personal things and occasionally my other siblings. I have difficulty making some decisions without discussing them with someone else first. 



penchant said:


> asmit127 said:
> 
> 
> > So that's not really much imagination. Does it also show that you are very black/white in your thinking? Either someone acts like you or the opposite, no middle option?
> ...


Hehe, it’s all right I can handle it. 



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > To my family I'm much more open with my reactions.
> ...


*sigh* looks like I’m contradicting myself again. As I said above ^ I think I talk to my brother about my problems a lot but not my mum. And my family say to me that they don’t always know there’s something wrong until my mood changes drastically, for example I’m either snappy or I end up crying. Then they know there’s something wrong. I like to try and sort out my problems on my first and then if a problem is still bugging me I’ll turn to my brother and then, possibly, my mum. 



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > A student was talking about how she felt that we are set too many essays to write instead of being asked to do creative/fictional writing. I disagreed with her because the course is very balanced, for each module we do a creative piece and an essay.
> ...


Interesting…I’m trying to write my understanding of what you’ve said about the functions here but I’m not writing it out very well…hmm. So which part would be Fi here? The fact that I wasn’t taking into consideration the students feelings and was instead considering how I felt about the course? 



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > On the feedback my tutor described one of the pieces as very 'matter of fact' and that I have 'lots of ideas’ and should have ‘experimented a bit more’.
> ...


I agree, I often have lots of ideas and it takes me a while to pull them out of myself into something productive. If I had longer to work on the assignment and not so many other things to think about I think I would have been able to give more to the assignment. 

I also think that I was afraid to experiment because I was afraid of getting it wrong.

I felt that the instructions were not clear; I wasn’t sure what was expected of me. Some examples would have been useful and we were given some in the workshops, but I felt that the examples given did not relate very well with the instructions for the assignment. The whole module seemed very unstructured. 

I should have expressed how I felt to my tutors but I wasn’t even sure what to say, I couldn’t work out what it was that I didn’t understand. 

We were given the opportunity to give written feedback about the module and I have done this stating my above concerns.



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose this sounds like me: ‘ there are so many options that you'd like to follow that you can't identify which one would be the best at any given time’
> ...


Now that I’m re-reading that I don’t actually understand the statement. I said that I ‘suppose’ it sounds like me because I’m actually not sure if it is me or not. If I look at the decisions I have made in the past for example: deciding that I wasn’t ready for Uni so I worked for a few years and then after a few years I decided that I am ready for Uni etc. Surely that means that at the time I made the right decisions for the given time? So would that mean that I can identify which one to follow?

I think it depends if people are involved. If there are other people involved in the decision making then it can make things difficult for me because I will be trying to please everyone…

As a side question: can Fi users often get caught up with their own feelings forgetting the feelings of others? I sometimes think I can be like this and I feel awful about it afterwards. 



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > I get enthusiastic for a few weeks until something else catches my eye
> ...


Is this a question for me to answer or just an idea? 



penchant said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > I asked this question because when you are little you are only supposed to have your dominant function developed. The fact that you were focused on being one thing would suggest that you are not Ne or Se dominant. The fact that you later came up with lots of different options that you can't choose between would indicate Ne or Se auxillary.
> ...


I have been brought up to love and care for animals and my mum used to watch a lot of vet programs as I was growing up so this was a huge influence on me. I used to collect animal toys too. I suppose my love for animals made me want to be a vet.



penchant said:


> asmit127 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm unclear what's going on with the idea of fitting 30 people in a kitchen being bad too. Having seen the room I could add more people in my mind, but again umbrellasky appears to be basing her guess that they will fit on a past experience - 15 fitted, 30 hopefully will.
> ...


This is going a few weeks back now. I think I tried to imagine how many people would fit and then thought that if they don’t fit there is the hallway, stairs and upstairs for them to fit. Or I could invite some friends to sit in my room with me. Plus I wasn’t the one organising it so I wasn’t that bothered if we didn’t all fit. We’d just have to wait and see. 



penchant said:


> asmit127 said:
> 
> 
> > And why mention a dented baking tray? There was no Fi-esque personification e.g. "and the poor baking tray was battered". Any possible explanations welcomed.
> ...


I’ll answer this. I found it amusing that they had decided to use the baking trays and I wondered if they had consider the fact that they were going to be completely useless for cooking with later. I also thought that I personally wouldn’t have used something of mine that might have ended up being damaged.

So yes…I was thinking about the practicalities and mentioned it because I thought it was amusing. 



asmit127 said:


> Well it's a hunk of metal - to my Te a non flat baking tray would mean flat food is less likely to stick to it - it's a functional improvement and I'm sure it would be implemented across the board were it not for the increased complexity in the production and worse stacking ability for transportation. It's easy enough to clean and you'd only scratch the outside, so I'd have no problem using it as a sledge. But that's just me... @umbrellasky - what's wrong with a baking tray sledge? And what did you call your snowman?


There’s nothing wrong with a baking tray sledge, it worked perfectly, I just thought it was amusing they came up with the idea and then seemed surprised when it got dented. 

I didn’t call my snowman anything. He wasn’t very well made (I suck!) And I ended up letting my housemates carry on making him. They gave him a scarf and orange peel eyes and everything. It was very cute. Then after the pub we came back and someone had destroyed him, which I thought was sad, but also amusing. I had pretty much detached myself from it by then so it didn’t bother me that he was destroyed. If someone had tried destroying it whilst I was making it I would have been very angry because it took me ages!



penchant said:


> Asmit alerted me to something that has been overlooked so far:
> 
> Eye movement is partially correlated to right- or left-handedness. On the one hand we don't know which of these @umbrellasky is. On the other hand however, since we know what she is talking about and can assume she is not lying, it wouldn't make sense to interpret her eye movements as reversed from the normal, even if she is lefthanded (which might be the case, since she uses her left hand to handle camera, and seems to use it more in general). And not all left-handed people have reversed movement patterns, so this goes well with the NLP theory.


I’m right handed.



asmit127 said:


> penchant said:
> 
> 
> > I could add that it is fascinating to see the resistance to concrete facts at 1:08 in the same video, when she is looking for something specific to tell about getting up earlier than necessary in the mornings, but then not finding anything that she wants to tell, or maybe nothing at all. She looking so cleary to her left, but nothing comes from in her speaking.
> ...


Wouldn’t you like to know! No there’s no dark secret hidden in my morning routine.



penchant said:


> asmit127 said:
> 
> 
> > We need to think of something she can talk about that involves more imagination and ideas than packing people into a kitchen
> ...


Sure you can ask me about my paintings…what would you like to know?


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

I have taken a look at the ENFP profile from this website: Portrait of an ENFP

BLUE = I agree that sounds like me

GREEN = Disagree/not me/not sure

RED = My thoughts on the particular paragraph. 

ENFPs are warm, enthusiastic people, typically very bright and full of potential. They live in the world of possibilities, and can become very passionate and excited about things. Their enthusiasm lends them the ability to inspire and motivate others, more so than we see in other types. They can talk their way in or out of anything. They love life, seeing it as a special gift, and strive to make the most out of it. - I’m not sure about the parts in green. I don’t think I’ve ever been called inspiring or been considered motivational…I don’t encourage people enough to be consider that. I think I’m more subtle in my approach when trying to help people. I don’t know if I can talk my way in or out of anything either…Then again I don’t know if I’ve ever been in a position where I’ve needed to. 

ENFPs have an unusually broad range of skills and talents. They are good at most things which interest them. Project-oriented, they may go through several different careers during their lifetime. To onlookers, the ENFP may seem directionless and without purpose, but ENFPs are actually quite consistent, in that they have a strong sense of values which they live with throughout their lives. Everything that they do must be in line with their values. An ENFP needs to feel that they are living their lives as their true Self, walking in step with what they believe is right. They see meaning in everything, and are on a continuous quest to adapt their lives and values to achieve inner peace. They're constantly aware and somewhat fearful of losing touch with themselves. Since emotional excitement is usually an important part of the ENFP's life, and because they are focused on keeping "centered", the ENFP is usually an intense individual, with highly evolved values. 

An ENFP needs to focus on following through with their projects. This can be a problem area for some of these individuals. Unlike other Extraverted types, ENFPs need time alone to center themselves, and make sure they are moving in a direction which is in sync with their values. ENFPs who remain centered will usually be quite successful at their endeavors. Others may fall into the habit of dropping a project when they become excited about a new possibility, and thus they never achieve the great accomplishments which they are capable of achieving. – I’m not sure if I agree with this or not. I’m usually good at completing tasks and projects I set for myself. When I paint or draw I don’t stop until the piece is completed. However there are skills I have learnt just for fun and never used because I’ve found something else that interests me. I started having piano lessons but stopped after about 6 lessons because I lost interest. I just like to make up my own music so felt that I didn’t need the lessons, even though I know It would be useful to learn how to play properly. 
I also haven’t worked out what I want to do with my life so I’ve gone from wanting to be an artist, to working in administration and now I’m doing a degree in creative writing. Who knows what I’m going to do after that…I’ve considered teaching…

Most ENFPs have great people skills. They are genuinely warm and interested in people, and place great importance on their inter-personal relationships. – I try to get along with everyone, even people I dislike are not aware that I dislike them as I try not to reveal it, unless they do something that requires me to speak up. Does that fit in with this paragraph?

ENFPs almost always have a strong need to be liked. Sometimes, especially at a younger age, an ENFP will tend to be "gushy" and insincere, and generally "overdo" in an effort to win acceptance. However, once an ENFP has learned to balance their need to be true to themselves with their need for acceptance, they excel at bringing out the best in others, and are typically well-liked. They have an exceptional ability to intuitively understand a person after a very short period of time, and use their intuition and flexibility to relate to others on their own level. – I’m not sure about this one either. I don’t think I was ever gushy at a younger age. I was always very quiet and reserved. I think I can be ‘gushy’ sometimes. When I came home from Uni yesterday I felt like I had a lot to say about my experience so I think I was a bit ‘gushy’ when trying to keep my mum’s attention. I know that my mum’s attention often wanders so I try to say everything that I want to say quickly before she loses interest…

Because ENFPs live in the world of exciting possibilities, the details of everyday life are seen as trivial drudgery. They place no importance on detailed, maintenance-type tasks, and will frequently remain oblivous to these types of concerns. When they do have to perform these tasks, they do not enjoy themselves. This is a challenging area of life for most ENFPs, and can be frustrating for ENFP's family members. – If this includes things like fixing things around the home and looking after my car then this is definitely me! I do not like doing tasks like that. It takes a lot of effort me to sort out my car insurance when it’s due to run out…

An ENFP who has "gone wrong" may be quite manipulative - and very good it. The gift of gab which they are blessed with makes it naturally easy for them to get what they want. Most ENFPs will not abuse their abilities, because that would not jive with their value systems. – I don’t think I have the gift of the gab at all! And I can’t say much about this paragraph as I don’t consider myself manipulative so I that must mean I’m not an ENFP gone wrong…

ENFPs sometimes make serious errors in judgment. They have an amazing ability to intuitively perceive the truth about a person or situation, but when they apply judgment to their perception, they may jump to the wrong conclusions. – I don’t know if this is me or not. 

ENFPs are basically happy people. They may become unhappy when they are confined to strict schedules or mundane tasks. – When I think about the last job I had I remembered that I enjoyed variety so yes doing the same task over and over again is very boring…but I would have thought this would be the same for most people?

Consequently, ENFPs work best in situations where they have a lot of flexibility, and where they can work with people and ideas. Many go into business for themselves. They have the ability to be quite productive with little supervision, as long as they are excited about what they're doing. – I think this sounds like me. I know that I am very self motivated and I am good at keeping myself occupied. I think the last part is key to this paragraph. If I am excited about my work then I am more likely to put more effort into the task and continue with the task. However I do think I get a lot more done if there is something to work towards. For example In school I have always been a very conscientious person and excelled in the subjects that I enjoyed the most. I think the structure of school was useful to me because if I wanted to get good grades I had to do the work! And I liked getting the best grades I was capable of getting. 

Because they are so alert and sensitive, constantly scanning their environments, ENFPs often suffer from muscle tension. – This is interesting, I get a lot of muscle tension. I’ve even suffer from TMJ (Temporomandibular joint disorder) because of how tense and stressed out I get. 

They have a strong need to be independent, and resist being controlled or labelled. They need to maintain control over themselves, but they do not believe in controlling others. Their dislike of dependence and suppression extends to others as well as to themselves. – I don’t know if this is me or not…I agree with the second sentence…

ENFPs are charming, ingenuous, risk-taking, sensitive, people-oriented individuals with capabilities ranging across a broad spectrum. They have many gifts which they will use to fulfill themselves and those near them, if they are able to remain centered and master the ability of following through. –Now now this paragraph I disagree with…I’ve never been called charming and I’m definitely not risk-taking. 

I also came across this page: ENFP (Advocate) Personality Type - Jungian and read the paragraph at the top and thought, no way, that is not me. They sound so…extrovert ha. And I hold back my thoughts and ideas a lot. I have the urge to share them but can never seem to have the courage to. I helps if there is someone there to pull the ideas out of me.

I have an example of this, I don’t know if I’ve already mentioned it. A couple of weeks ago my tutor was asking me why I like the author Terry Pratchett and I said “Hmm because he is good at writing comedy.” and she replied: “is that the only reason?” as if she knew that I had more to say and then I blurted out: “Well, I also like that he takes everyday things and uses them in his stories but twists them to make them more interesting. Like the police force in his Discworld. I used to work for the police and I can remember diversity being a big issue so I liked how Terry Pratchett used this in his stories.” 

Then I read this: "They can't bear to miss out on what is going on around them; they must experience, first hand, all the significant social events that affect our lives." And I agree that I hate missing out on things. When I’m in my room at University and I hear people talking in the kitchen I like to go and find out who is in there…I usually pretend to get a glass of water and stay there for a few minutes chatting and then go back to my room. 

And then I read this: "outgoing, social, disorganized, easily talked into doing silly things, spontaneous, wild and crazy, acts without thinking..." and thought, nope not me. I’m not afraid of being silly and letting my hair down with my friends and there are moments when I can be spontaneous and adventure seeking, but on the whole I’m a very responsible and cautious person so I don’t think this sounds like me at all.


----------



## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

I have taken a look at the ENFJ profile from this website: Portrait of an ENFJ

BLUE = I agree that sounds like me

GREEN = Disagree/not me/not sure

RED = My thoughts on the particular paragraph. 

ENFJs are people-focused individuals. They live in the world of people possibilities. More so than any other type, they have excellent people skills. - I’m not sure about this one. I wouldn’t say that people are intentionally my priority – they just somehow become it. If I see someone who needs help I am drawn to helping them. At my last workplace I was often putting my own tasks to one side to help others with theirs. I suppose people find me approachable and just generally helpful… 

They understand and care about people, and have a special talent for bringing out the best in others. ENFJ's main interest in life is giving love, support, and a good time to other people. They are focused on understanding, supporting, and encouraging others. They make things happen for people, and get their best personal satisfaction from this. - I do get satisfaction out of helping others especially when they show appreciation for the help. And sometimes I do get this overwhelming need to show love to everyone, but I am very reserved when it comes to showing affection. My way of showing that I care is through my actions rather than words. 

Because ENFJ's people skills are so extraordinary, they have the ability to make people do exactly what they want them to do. They get under people's skins and get the reactions that they are seeking. – I don’t know if this is me or not…I asked my brother and he said “I don’t think you’ve ever tried.”

ENFJ's motives are usually unselfish, but ENFJs who have developed less than ideally have been known to use their power over people to manipulate them. – I don’t consider myself to have influence over anyone…

ENFJ's are so externally focused that it's especially important for them to spend time alone. This can be difficult for some ENFJs, because they have the tendency to be hard on themselves and turn to dark thoughts when alone. – I agree with this I like alone time but it is also the time when I can be the most hard on myself and turn to negative thoughts. 

Consequently, ENFJs might avoid being alone, and fill their lives with activities involving other people. – sort of me I do things with my Uni housemates because I don’t like the thought of missing out on something. I also know that being around other people is probably a good thing for me because it takes the focus off myself and puts it onto others. 

ENFJs tend to define their life's direction and priorities according to other people's needs, and may not be aware of their own needs. It's natural to their personality type that they will tend to place other people's needs above their own, but they need to stay aware of their own needs so that they don't sacrifice themselves in their drive to help others. – I don’t know how to answer this one. I can’t say if it is me or not. My mum was ill before I went to Uni, this didn’t stop me from going. I know that my younger brother was there to look after her and that I was only a short train journey away…

Although I’m having a dilemma about which housemates to move in with at the moment because I’ve been asked by two different groups of people and I’m worried that I might offend one group by not choosing them. One of the groups is actually two girls, one of them I like but the other I don’t like very much so I don’t really want to live with her, but then I feel bad about the other friend who I do like. Does this count?

ENFJ's tend to be more reserved about exposing themselves than other extraverted types. Although they may have strongly-felt beliefs, they're likely to refrain from expressing them if doing so would interfere with bringing out the best in others. – Hmm I think this is me. I don’t often share my views or opinions on things unless everyone else is sharing theirs or I’m asked for mine. I suppose I also worry that my opinion might be wrong or that I might offend someone…

Because their strongest interest lies in being a catalyst of change in other people, they're likely to interact with others on their own level, in a chameleon-like manner, rather than as individuals. –I agree that I do this. I think that’s why I can get along with so many different people, of all ages, because I am able to change the way I behave. 

Which is not to say that the ENFJ does not have opinions. ENFJs have definite values and opinions which they're able to express clearly and succinctly. – This is not me. I have a hard time expressing myself clearly. Even when I have a definite opinion and feel strongly about something I feel like I can’t fully get my point across. 

These beliefs will be expressed as long as they're not too personal. ENFJ is in many ways expressive and open, but is more focused on being responsive and supportive of others. When faced with a conflict between a strongly-held value and serving another person's need, they are highly likely to value the other person's needs. I don’t know if this last sentence is me or not…

The ENFJ may feel quite lonely even when surrounded by people. This feeling of aloneness may be exacerbated by the tendency to not reveal their true selves. – I definitely feel like this most of the time. 

People love ENFJs. They are fun to be with, and truly understand and love people. – I don’t feel that I can comment on this. At least no the ‘fun to be with part.’ Do I truly understand people I don’t know. Do I love people? I don’t know. 

They are typically very straight-forward and honest. – I think this is me. Honest, yes. 

Usually ENFJs exude a lot of self-confidence, and have a great amount of ability to do many different things. They are generally bright, full of potential, energetic and fast-paced. They are usually good at anything which captures their interest. – The parts in green I’m not sure about…I’ve never considered myself to be confident. I definitely don’t exude it. And I don’t consider myself to be energetic and fast-paced. I think I’m very much a slow paced and calm person most of the time. 

ENFJs like for things to be well-organized, and will work hard at maintaining structure and resolving ambiguity. They have a tendency to be fussy, especially with their home environments. – The first part sounds a little bit like me, but I'm happy to let someone else do the organising. The seond part isn’t me. I don’t think I’m fussy at all about my home environement.

In the work place, ENFJs do well in positions where they deal with people. They are naturals for the social committee. Their uncanny ability to understand people and say just what needs to be said to make them happy makes them naturals for counseling. They enjoy being the center of attention, and do very well in situations where they can inspire and lead others, such as teaching. – This to me sounds like someone who is very outgoing and confident where as I’m more of a follower or a background sort of person. 

ENFJs do not like dealing with impersonal reasoning. They don't understand or appreciate its merit, and will be unhappy in situations where they're forced to deal with logic and facts without any connection to a human element. -Would this apply to things like abstract art? I always wondered if the reason I don’t like most abstract/modern art is because I can’t always find anything recognisable in it, such as a person or a landscape. No ‘human element’ that I can relate to.

Living in the world of people possibilities, they enjoy their plans more than their achievements. They get excited about possibilities for the future, but may become easily bored and restless with the present. – I don’t know if this is me or not. 

ENFJs have a special gift with people, and are basically happy people when they can use that gift to help others. They get their best satisfaction from serving others. Their genuine interest in Humankind and their exceptional intuitive awareness of people makes them able to draw out even the most reserved individuals. – I have noticed that when I’m around reserved people I end up being the one making the conversation…I always considered myself to be very reserved but there are a couple of people I live with who are much more reserved than me!

ENFJs have a strong need for close, intimate relationships, and will put forth a lot of effort in creating and maintaining these relationships. They're very loyal and trustworthy once involved in a relationship. 
An ENFJ who has not developed their Feeling side may have difficulty making good decisions, and may rely heavily on other people in decision-making processes. I do talk to my brother a lot about decisions I have to make so yes I’d say I feel the need for other people’s input before I can make a decision for myself. 

If they have not developed their Intuition, they may not be able to see possibilities, and will judge things too quickly based on established value systems or social rules, without really understanding the current situation. – I don’t know if this is me or not.

An ENFJ who has not found their place in the world is likely to be extremely sensitive to criticism, and to have the tendency to worry excessively and feel guilty. – This sounds like me.

They are also likely to be very manipulative and controling with others. – Not me (at least I hope not!)

In general, ENFJs are charming, warm, gracious, creative and diverse individuals with richly developed insights into what makes other people tick. This special ability to see growth potential in others combined with a genuine drive to help people makes the ENFJ a truly valued individual. As giving and caring as the ENFJ is, they need to remember to value their own needs as well as the needs of others.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Another thought...

Something happened to me the other day that never happens to me. 

I was in the library at University printing out my work and there was this guy who was pretty much taking over the printer because he had pages and pages of work to print out. Anyways...I wasn't annoyed at this and just patiently waited until I thought he had finished. So I click print and then head over to the printer. He is stood by the printer and I smile at him. I don't know why I smiled, I think I just caught his eye and thought I should smile. I also thought he might be feeling awkward about having to take over the printer, so it was my way of saying 'don't worry'. 

So anyways, I reached the printer and he was collecting his work off the printer and he was sifting through it and found some that wasn't his and he said is this yours? And I said yes and he passed me the documents. Then he started engaging me in conversation. He just asked me what I was studying and then I asked him and then he asked me when I was going home for xmas. And that was it, I went back to my work and he went back to his. We briefly bumped into each other again and said bye to each other.

I felt quite strange after that 'meeting'. I don't usually make 'eye contact' with strangers. I was in the library to print my work and that's it, I had no intention of engaging with another human being. But it felt strangely good that he noticed me and spoke to me. I don't mean in a romantic way I wasn't attracted to him. I just mean in a human way, that because I had smiled at him he noticed me and then spoke to me. I just thought it was strange and nice at the same time :laughing:

I don't know what this says about me, my type or my functions, but I thought I should post this here as it might be useful...


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

My thoughts on the ISTJ profile found here: Portrait of an ISTJ

BLUE = I agree that sounds like me

GREEN = Disagree/not me/not sure

RED = My thoughts on the particular paragraph.

ISTJs are quiet and reserved individuals who are interested in security and peaceful living. - I have been called quiet and reserved by many people and this is how I was in school and when I’m with large groups of people. However, with small groups of friends that I know well I am much more relaxed and open.

who are interested in security and peaceful living. - Aren’t most people interested in this generally? There are moments when I crave excitement and adventure but that usually stays in my head. I think if I craved security I wouldn’t have given up a good job that I was comfortable doing to go to University…It’s almost as though once I've settled into something I’m ready to move on and try something else. 

They have a strongly-felt internal sense of duty, which lends them a serious air and the motivation to follow through on tasks. - Well I’ve always thought of myself as a reliable and responsible person. And I do things for my family because I feel like it is my duty to do them. And I agree that there are times when I can take things too seriously, but I know how to have fun. 

Organized and methodical in their approach, they can generally succeed at any task which they undertake. - I don’t know if I’m methodical or not. Hmm I’m trying to think of examples when I might have been methodical, such as following instructions. When I try to follow written instructions I nearly always miss out a step and end up having to re-read them a few times. So this wouldn’t be methodical right? 

And assignments…I spend a lot of time telling myself that I have an assignment to work on and then when I eventually do get to it I collect all the resources I need (books) and skim through them picking out useful quotes and then try to write an argument based around the quotes. I write random paragraphs down and then try to ‘sew’ them together into some sort of structured essay. Is that methodical?

In my experience if someone gives me a task to do, I get it done.

ISTJs are very loyal, faithful, and dependable. They place great importance on honesty and integrity. They are "good citizens" who can be depended on to do the right thing for their families and communities. While they generally take things very seriously, they also usually have an offbeat sense of humor and can be a lot of fun - especially at family or work-related gatherings. - yeah that sounds like me. But the ‘very seriously’ part I’m not sure is completely me.

ISTJs tend to believe in laws and traditions, and expect the same from others. They're not comfortable with breaking laws or going against the rules. If they are able to see a good reason for stepping outside of the established mode of doing things, the ISTJ will support that effort. However, ISTJs more often tend to believe that things should be done according to procedures and plans. If an ISTJ has not developed their Intuitive side sufficiently, they may become overly obsessed with structure, and insist on doing everything "by the book". This one is really tough! I was once given a speeding fine…so that would suggest that I break laws! I’m really trying hard to find a time when I broke the rules or a time when I felt that I couldn’t break the rules. I’ve never been a rebellious sort of person. I’ve always done what my mum asked of me. I’m the sort of person that will go along with what everyone else thinks is all right. So if they think it’s ok to break rules I’ll probably go along with it. I don’t know! 

I remember once when I was in a car park and it was practically empty my brother said it would have been quicker if I had taken a short cut through the parking bays instead of following the route around the car park. In that situation I was following the rules of the car park. But after he pointed it out I thought he was right and so now I’ll go out the wrong way of a car park if it is not busy. I don't know if that was me keeping to the rules or if it was just me on autopilot not bothering to see if there was a quicker easier way out of the car park. 

The ISTJ is extremely dependable on following through with things which he or she has promised. For this reason, they sometimes get more and more work piled on them. Because the ISTJ has such a strong sense of duty, they may have a difficult time saying "no" when they are given more work than they can reasonably handle. Yes this is definitely how I am in the workplace. 

For this reason, the ISTJ often works long hours, and may be unwittingly taken advantage of. Yes taken advantage of, but no I’ve never worked long hours to get things done. I work the hours I’m paid to. 

The ISTJ will work for long periods of time and put tremendous amounts of energy into doing any task which they see as important to fulfilling a goal. However, they will resist putting energy into things which don't make sense to them, or for which they can't see a practical application. Again I’ll work the hours I’m paid to and very rarely did I ever accept overtime! In fact I don’t think I accepted overtime once. 

They prefer to work alone, but work well in teams when the situation demands it. Yes this is true in my last job I did like to work alone, giving myself projects to do. And even now at University I prefer to work on an assignment alone than in a team.

They like to be accountable for their actions, and enjoy being in positions of authority. No not me at all! I hate being in positions of authority. My colleagues were always trying to encourage me to ‘move up the ranks’ in my work place because they thought I was capable of so much more, but I didn’t want the extra responsibility. I was quite happy getting on with my work quietly without there being a demand on my time. 

The ISTJ has little use for theory or abstract thinking, unless the practical application is clear. - I don’t know if this is me or not. I feel that I can’t answer this without an example.

ISTJs have tremendous respect for facts. They hold a tremendous store of facts within themselves, which they have gathered through their Sensing preference. They may have difficulty understanding a theory or idea which is different from their own perspective. However, if they are shown the importance or relevance of the idea to someone who they respect or care about, the idea becomes a fact, which the ISTJ will internalize and support. Once the ISTJ supports a cause or idea, he or she will stop at no lengths to ensure that they are doing their duty of giving support where support is needed. I don’t really understand this…so I don’t know if this applies to me or not.

The ISTJ is not naturally in tune with their own feelings and the feelings of others. They may have difficulty picking up on emotional needs immediately, as they are presented. Hmm I’ve always thought of myself as being in tune with what I’m feeling. I even do things to stir up emotions within me like listening to music or watching a favourite film. I also believe that I am in tune with how others are feeling. 

Being perfectionists themselves, they have a tendency to take other people's efforts for granted, like they take their own efforts for granted. They need to remember to pat people on the back once in a while. no this is not me. I think because I’m a perfectionist it makes me want encourage other people so that they don’t let their own perfectionism affect them negatively. I try to make sure that others know how grateful I am for their efforts. 

ISTJs are likely to be uncomfortable expressing affection and emotion to others. Sometimes I find it hard to express affection verbally because I worry that the other person will think I’m not being sincere. Sometimes I can be guarded about expressing my emotions, I think it depends on whether I think it’s appropriate for me to be expressing them. There are times when I’ve held back my emotions because I worry about how others will perceive me.

However, their strong sense of duty and the ability to see what needs to be done in any situation usually allows them to overcome their natural reservations, and they are usually quite supporting and caring individuals with the people that they love. Once the ISTJ realizes the emotional needs of those who are close to them, they put forth effort to meet those needs. – I suppose this follows on from the last paragraph. I don’t think I need to say anymore… 

The ISTJ is extremely faithful and loyal. Traditional and family-minded, they will put forth great amounts of effort at making their homes and families running smoothly. They are responsible parents, taking their parenting roles seriously. They are usually good and generous providers to their families. They care deeply about those close to them, although they usually are not comfortable with expressing their love. The ISTJ is likely to express their affection through actions, rather than through words. I can relate to this paragraph quite a lot.

ISTJs have an excellent ability to take any task and define it, organize it, plan it, and implement it through to completion. If it’s a task someone else has given me to do then yes. If it is my own work than not always.

They are very hard workers, who do not allow obstacles to get in the way of performing their duties. – Hmm I don’t know about this. If obstacles include people than I will always put the person first, before the task. 

They do not usually give themselves enough credit for their achievements, seeing their accomplishments simply as the natural fulfillment of their obligations. Yes this is me. My managers often told me to ‘blow my own trumpet’ once in a while because they worried that my hard work would be missed by them. 

ISTJs usually have a great sense of space and function, and artistic appreciation. Their homes are likely to be tastefully furnished and immaculately maintained. They are acutely aware of their senses, and want to be in surroundings which fit their need for structure, order, and beauty. I do have an artistic appreciation and would have nice furniture if I could afford it. However this is not a priority for me and my room is always a mess, I do not live in structure at all! 

Under stress, ISTJs may fall into "catastrophe mode", where they see nothing but all of the possibilities of what could go wrong. They will berate themselves for things which they should have done differently, or duties which they failed to perform. They will lose their ability to see things calmly and reasonably, and will depress themselves with their visions of doom. – I think I can relate to this kind of mood. 

In general, the ISTJ has a tremendous amount of potential. Capable, logical, reasonable, and effective individuals with a deeply driven desire to promote security and peaceful living, the ISTJ has what it takes to be highly effective at achieving their chosen goals - whatever they may be. This last paragraph doesn’t sound much like me. I’ve never been called logical by my family! Capable and reasonable yes that sounds like me.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks! I'll get back to this as soon as I can give it proper attention...


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## dna3 (Jun 24, 2010)

wow, I just read this thread for the first time and I have to say that I literally relate to everything you said in your few recent posts, to the point that I could have written it myself. One thing that particularly stood out to me was that you mentioned not wanting to miss out on opportunities.. I completely relate to this (I also do the pretend glass of water  ), and often express this feeling to my friends, who don't understand it at ALL. I could be wrong, but I think this is very Ne...can any other Ne-doms relate?

I've gone back and forth between ENFP, ENFJ, and even ENTP, but I'm almost positive now that I'm ENFP.

Other major things that I relate to:
-Your library story sounds exactly like me/how I would have responded. 
-I'm also reserved in showing affection unless someone expresses affection to me first, in which case I can respond with affection.
-I don't see myself as manipulate, whereas my ENFJ best friend definitely is (not always in a bad way). He says that he can respond to people (especially via text) in a way to get exactly what he wants from someone.
-I don't consider myself charming and don't think i have the gift of gab, although I also have low self-esteem as the result of being bullied in school 
-I was also very quiet growing up and highly motivated to get good grades
- I've always been described as responsible and cautious, and not necessarily a risk-taker in the traditional sense. I don't know if you can relate to this, but I consider myself a risk-taker in the sense that I like to push the limits of things, am open to new experiences, like to break rules despite consequences (as long as there aren't major consequences)
-ok actually if I listed everything I related to I would just be copying this entire thread! off topic, but can we be friends? 

The most helpful thing for me was determining Ne vs Ni (which I understand is really hard to do!) but what really did it for me was: Ni likes to rule out what is not possible; Ne likes to think of what is possible. This really resonated with me, because I have trouble eliminating possibilities but I can always think of many different explanations for things. Obviously I did a lot more research and thoroughly invested the functions without simplifying it down to this, but I think this a very concise and powerful difference. (thanks to whoever originally stated this, can't remember where i found it!)

It was also very helpful to compare myself to other people IRL whose type I'm positive about. That's how I figured out that I definitely don't use Ti nearly as much as I thought.

Interestingly, I relate to the socionics ENFP descriptions much more than the others.
http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-forum-inspirers/7695-effervescent-enfp-socionics.html
Intuitive-Ethical Extratim - ENFp (The Reporter)

Sorry this post was quite random and i'm not exactly sure what you're trying to figure out (your type? your functions?) as I didn't have time to read through all 21 pages, but I hope I was helpful in some way!


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

umbrellasky,

After reading parts of your last posts, I'm noticing something fundamental missing which may be why you´re having difficulties figuring out your type. You need to do some research on the 8 letters of the MBTI. A better understanding of I-E, N-S, T-F and J-P will make it easier to determine your type. 

You´re reading the definitions, take specific points out and try to search for some situation in your life where it applied. This is not helpful. You need to look at the general idea of the type in stead of dissecting every little detail.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

dna3 said:


> wow, I just read this thread for the first time and I have to say that I literally relate to everything you said in your few recent posts, to the point that I could have written it myself. One thing that particularly stood out to me was that you mentioned not wanting to miss out on opportunities.. I completely relate to this (I also do the pretend glass of water  ), and often express this feeling to my friends, who don't understand it at ALL. I could be wrong, but I think this is very Ne...can any other Ne-doms relate?
> 
> I've gone back and forth between ENFP, ENFJ, and even ENTP, but I'm almost positive now that I'm ENFP.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input dna3 it's good to know that you can relate. I keep reading different descriptions about the different functions and I just get more and more confused and I find it so hard to choose between them. 


I'm trying to work out my type by working out what functions I use...but I beginning to feel a bit stupid because I can't seem to grasp the different functions and how they work and I can't work out which functions are me or not. Everyone has been so helpful but I can't help feeling like I'm wasting everyones time :frustrating:


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Peter said:


> umbrellasky,
> 
> After reading parts of your last posts, I'm noticing something fundamental missing which may be why you´re having difficulties figuring out your type. You need to do some research on the 8 letters of the MBTI. A better understanding of I-E, N-S, T-F and J-P will make it easier to determine your type.
> 
> You´re reading the definitions, take specific points out and try to search for some situation in your life where it applied. This is not helpful. You need to look at the general idea of the type in stead of dissecting every little detail.


Thanks Peter. Sounds like I'm making the whole thing too complicated for myself? I always thought it was the functions that determined the letters therefore if I can work out my functions I can work out my letters?


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

I've just read this again and you were doing a pretty good impression of an INFP up until


umbrellasky said:


> I’m the sort of person that will go along with what everyone else thinks is all right. So if they think it’s ok to break rules I’ll probably go along with it. I don’t know!


INFP is more "I know what's the right thing and don't care if you disagree". But maybe you were talking more logic than ethics, which would make sense... If no-one gets hurt many things you could do don't matter at all.



umbrellasky said:


> Although I’m having a dilemma about which housemates to move in with at the moment because I’ve been asked by two different groups of people and I’m worried that I might offend one group by not choosing them. One of the groups is actually two girls, one of them I like but the other I don’t like very much so I don’t really want to live with her, but then I feel bad about the other friend who I do like. Does this count?


I think not. If you were considering living with the friend you don't like much because the quiet one she will be living with will struggle to find anyone nice to live with if she sticks with the the loud one it would fit but it sounds to me that you just like the quiet one and don't want to loose her. It sounds selfish, but not in a bad way...



umbrellasky said:


> ENFJs do not like dealing with impersonal reasoning. They don't understand or appreciate its merit, and will be unhappy in situations where they're forced to deal with logic and facts without any connection to a human element. -Would this apply to things like abstract art?


No, it's best described in more business-y stuff you probably haven't encountered. Like firing the nice person because the nasty one is a better employee - it makes sense and would progress your business, but it's not "nice", you treat the person as just another tool, it's impersonal. Impersonal reasoning could also relate to enjoying subjects like maths where there is nothing enjoyable produced. Art is still personal as it's usually done to be seen - by people. Cooking could be considered personal because the food is enjoyed by people. I doubt you'd enjoy working in an archive of financial records because it's very impersonal, that's what this was meaning. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense :crazy:



umbrellasky said:


> This one is really tough! I was once given a speeding fine…so that would suggest that I break laws!


:laughing: There are many more rules than that! Do you walk in the cycle lane? How often do you use a pedestrian crossing, and do you ever wait for the green man? Have you ever forgotten a friends' birthday card? These are some of the rules of society which can be broken repeatedly without consequence (unless you have really sensitive friends :mellow, there are of course many more. 



umbrellasky said:


> ENFJs are people-focused individuals. They live in the world of people possibilities. More so than any other type, they have excellent people skills. - I’m not sure about this one. I wouldn’t say that people are intentionally my priority – they just somehow become it. If I see someone who needs help I am drawn to helping them. At my last workplace I was often putting my own tasks to one side to help others with theirs. *I suppose people find me approachable* and just generally helpful…


So the people come to you rather than the other way round? Fe would actively seek the people to ensure everyone is happy (Te would actively seek the problem to have the satisfaction of producing a solution) while Fi would make you think their problem is important (if of an emotional nature) but they would more likely have to come to you as you'd be less aware. This is my interpretation so it may not be accurate 

Then we get to the ISTJ profile which barely mentions emotions, but you try to twist it to do so. You relate to lots of the I aspects which is backed up by your library story, an extroverted F type would usually smile at people and have casual conversations, they may have no interest in seeing the person again but would still talk just to check they are happy and to pass the time. This sounds like an unusual thing for you. You do try and twist yourself around some of the T aspects but they don't really fit, especially


umbrellasky said:


> I think because I’m a perfectionist it makes me want encourage other people so that they don’t let their own perfectionism affect them negatively.


I have ridiculously high standards for myself and lesser (but still high) standards for everyone else and I'm more likely to criticise than praise. Yes, my harshness may upset people but it's meant for their own good... To get a gauge on this the more I know/like someone the harsher I'll be, if I don't know someone well I'll not waste my time "helping" them, and will let them enjoy their mediocrity - I'd say nothing rather than upset them. Much like your brother's comments on your writing... Maybe F perfectionism is just nicer :laughing:

Then we get to the S bits - a library of facts. I'm struggling to remember you coming up with any interesting trivia despite watching Qi which is full of it, so wasn't surprised to read you don't relate to this. I really liked the idea that you knew the baking trays would be unusable after sliding down a hill too - clearly not spoken from experience :laughing: Out of interest are the trays still usable?

In short you're looking very INFP to me, which isn't a surprise. I usually enjoy talking to healthy INFPs :happy:


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> I was going to ask my mum to read those but she can be a bit difficult to approach and is already questioning my ‘obsession’ with finding my type. I think IFP is most like me between 7-12 years old.


I guess then anything before the age of 7 will be hard to find out about?



> I agree I think I would imagine the details rather than notice them…I think I’d ‘feel’ them rather than see them, if that makes sense?


Yes, I'd say I understand what you mean.



> In this case I had suggested to my friends to contact housing but they were reluctant. So I thought if I went behind there backs to try and find out more information I could then go back to them with the information to back up my original suggestion. I didn’t tell them what I was doing because I didn’t want to upset them.
> 
> At my last workplace I used to create a lot of projects for myself or try to improve processes. This was all done behind the scenes and then I’d present what I’m working on to my managers once it was near completion or if I needed help. I like to make sure that I have done all that I can do before I show anyone what I’m working on. I suppose I did it because I liked to keep myself occupied and I wanted to work things out for myself before anyone could interfere…I just like to be prepared!
> 
> I also like to make sure that I know something well enough before committing to it or having an opinion on it. I think my opinions change a lot because I’m constantly learning new things.


So it's not really working behind the scenes to fix things, but more really to make sure you are well prepared when you finally make a public stance.



> Did I say all of those things…hmm well I completely contradicted myself there didn’t I?
> 
> It depends on the situation. When I think about my assignments for University I spend a lot of time thinking about them and it isn’t until a few days before the deadline that I actually start working on them…
> 
> ...


I'm not sure it is necessarily a contradiction even if both are taken to refer to the same situation. It is absolutely possible to both overthink and still not think enough, if one is thinking about the wrong things. And this does sound very INFJ to me, more than INFJ; I don't know about the other types.

So: Which bothers you the most? Over-thinking or jumping to conclusions and being impulsive.



> I’d say Fi because it was very emotional for me, much more than just an observation.


Emotional, ok. But emotional observation or emotional judgment. I'm thinking that it can still be more of an "is" than a "ought to" even if it is very emotional.



> Well…after living with my housemates for 12 weeks I’m glad to be home again because they were starting to get on my nerves. I suppose I find that being around people for short amounts of time is a good thing but any longer than that I need time out for myself.
> 
> I’d just like to pick up on this last part that I said: “I also find it difficult to open up to people about my inner most thoughts and feelings, even to my own family.”
> 
> I disagree with myself here. I don’t open up to my mum very often, but I do talk to my brother a lot about personal things and occasionally my other siblings. I have difficulty making some decisions without discussing them with someone else first.


I'm starting to think this social or not perspective on E/I really doesn't help very much in typing... Did we go through what would be most likely to be your inferior?



> *sigh* looks like I’m contradicting myself again. As I said above ^ I think I talk to my brother about my problems a lot but not my mum. And my family say to me that they don’t always know there’s something wrong until my mood changes drastically, for example I’m either snappy or I end up crying. Then they know there’s something wrong. I like to try and sort out my problems on my first and then if a problem is still bugging me I’ll turn to my brother and then, possibly, my mum.


I feel I should comment on this, but I don't know what to say, so I'll pass...



> Interesting…I’m trying to write my understanding of what you’ve said about the functions here but I’m not writing it out very well…hmm. So which part would be Fi here? The fact that I wasn’t taking into consideration the students feelings and was instead considering how I felt about the course?


You're right; not really what you felt, I guess. Rather I read it as she telling you her feelings about it refer to her subjective experience, and you responding by pointing to an external standard of "balance" that the course agrees with, expecting that to be the true understanding. And that's probably only Te.



> I agree, I often have lots of ideas and it takes me a while to pull them out of myself into something productive. If I had longer to work on the assignment and not so many other things to think about I think I would have been able to give more to the assignment.
> 
> I also think that I was afraid to experiment because I was afraid of getting it wrong.
> 
> I felt that the instructions were not clear; I wasn’t sure what was expected of me. Some examples would have been useful and we were given some in the workshops, but I felt that the examples given did not relate very well with the instructions for the assignment. The whole module seemed very unstructured.


This sound then as your Pe function doing its job being creative well but that it is hindered by a worrying J function. So I guess that is less likely a Ne dom then.



> Now that I’m re-reading that I don’t actually understand the statement. I said that I ‘suppose’ it sounds like me because I’m actually not sure if it is me or not. If I look at the decisions I have made in the past for example: deciding that I wasn’t ready for Uni so I worked for a few years and then after a few years I decided that I am ready for Uni etc. Surely that means that at the time I made the right decisions for the given time? So would that mean that I can identify which one to follow?
> 
> I think it depends if people are involved. If there are other people involved in the decision making then it can make things difficult for me because I will be trying to please everyone…
> 
> As a side question: can Fi users often get caught up with their own feelings forgetting the feelings of others? I sometimes think I can be like this and I feel awful about it afterwards.


I said what I did because as I understand Fi doms worrying would generally be from the position of seeing a lot of things that can go wrong, rather than too many possibilities. But of course no one would be able to make all correct decisions all the time. It's more about the feeling when making the decisions, I guess.

That adding people makes it more difficult is interesting, and does point to high F, of course. Wanting to please everybody could probably happen to any type, but to me it seems more common to Fi doms for some reason. Maybe they are just more self-critical in the area of peoples feelings than other types, possibly with the exception of Fe doms.

Your last part sounds a lot like overdriving on Fi and then realising afterwards. An objection here could of course be that if you are Fi dom, then the realisation that you have been overusing Fi might not come very easy. I can also get caught up in my own feelings at times, so it isn't only for Fi users, but when I do it is about understanding a situation (using P) and not about wanting things to be this or the other way (J functions). I wouldn't be surprised if there is a common theme with all the introverted functions doing this in different ways. But feeling bad about it afterwards seems to mean that you do have a healthy extraverted function to balance that off. Could you even tell which it is - i.e. what process and thoughts are going on as you realise that you have been overly selfish?



> Is this a question for me to answer or just an idea?


It's a question, but I don't expect you to have the answer, really. I'm just thinking out loud.



> I have been brought up to love and care for animals and my mum used to watch a lot of vet programs as I was growing up so this was a huge influence on me. I used to collect animal toys too. I suppose my love for animals made me want to be a vet.


So katey's observation on Fi over Ne/Se still seems valid to me.



> This is going a few weeks back now. I think I tried to imagine how many people would fit and then thought that if they don’t fit there is the hallway, stairs and upstairs for them to fit. Or I could invite some friends to sit in my room with me. Plus I wasn’t the one organising it so I wasn’t that bothered if we didn’t all fit. We’d just have to wait and see.


The way you are describing it now seems quite pure Ne to me. You imagine possibilities but don't settle on anything.



> I’ll answer this. I found it amusing that they had decided to use the baking trays and I wondered if they had consider the fact that they were going to be completely useless for cooking with later. I also thought that I personally wouldn’t have used something of mine that might have ended up being damaged.
> 
> So yes…I was thinking about the practicalities and mentioned it because I thought it was amusing.
> 
> ...


Yes, and this recurrence of Te is one thing that doesn't make me comfortable with suggesting INFP for you. It just seems natural to you to use it, and I can't make sense of which position it could be... 



> I’m right handed.


So we were right then... not that it matters. :laughing:



Anyhow, after finishing this of this I had a realisation... What if your type really is ENFP and the use of Fi over Ne at times is explained by adaptation to experiences making you more introverted. Because we don't talk much about Si, and it seems simply much less used by you. I know I'm probably pushing this on a lot of people here at the moment, so I'm not sure about how true it really is, but I think it's worth considering. (Another way of getting at this could be to take a look at how much you really use Te in relation to Fi. I'm thinking quite a bit, but I'm not sure.)

Maybe this too can help in trying to fix the functions to certain roles: The 16 Type Patterns


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

umbrellasky said:


> Another thought...
> 
> Something happened to me the other day that never happens to me.
> 
> ...


Attention and confirmation - everybody wants it and needs it. I don't think it was more than that. Thanks for sharing anyway. It reminded me about what we all have in common despite our different types...


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> I've just read this again and you were doing a pretty good impression of an INFP up until INFP is more "I know what's the right thing and don't care if you disagree". But maybe you were talking more logic than ethics, which would make sense... If no-one gets hurt many things you could do don't matter at all.


And keeping (more than making) other people happy can be an important goal anway.



> No, it's best described in more business-y stuff you probably haven't encountered. Like firing the nice person because the nasty one is a better employee - it makes sense and would progress your business, but it's not "nice", you treat the person as just another tool, it's impersonal. Impersonal reasoning could also relate to enjoying subjects like maths where there is nothing enjoyable produced. Art is still personal as it's usually done to be seen - by people. Cooking could be considered personal because the food is enjoyed by people. I doubt you'd enjoy working in an archive of financial records because it's very impersonal, that's what this was meaning. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense :crazy:


This is why I can be fully happy doing administrative work that measures up to external standards, _as long as I can see how it helps people_.



> I have ridiculously high standards for myself and lesser (but still high) standards for everyone else and I'm more likely to criticise than praise. Yes, my harshness may upset people but it's meant for their own good... To get a gauge on this the more I know/like someone the harsher I'll be, if I don't know someone well I'll not waste my time "helping" them, and will let them enjoy their mediocrity - I'd say nothing rather than upset them. Much like your brother's comments on your writing... Maybe F perfectionism is just nicer :laughing:


My perfectionism goes by the same creed as yours. I think it's mostly a Ni thing. Though I do help people I don't know too, trying to help them see the truth and not annoy them at the same time. It usually includes trying to get inside their heads to be able to follow their "logic" and see where there is an opening.



> In short you're looking very INFP to me, which isn't a surprise. I usually enjoy talking to healthy INFPs :happy:


And I agree that there is a familiarity to this, which I can relate to INFP too. But then other things add upp more to ENFP. Though I haven't read your comments on ENFP, ENFJ and ISTJ, so I'll do that and get back to you again on that.


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## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

Umbrellasky, if you're stuck mostly between ENFP/ENFJ/INFP, here are some generalizations that may help:

First for the E/I dillemma-- it is what it is. I personally can't stand 5 minutes without human contact, most of the time. Only you can tell if other people ultimately energize you or drain you. That's a very internal thing.

So if you still think you're an E, the main difference between ENFPs & ENFJs is that ENFJs feel the need to be in control of their lives and everything in it (for the most part-- and I'm not saying it in a negative way). I know a LARGE amount of ENFJs and they're all very neat, extremely detail-oriented, tend to get very upset if something doesn't go their way, and like to be the orchestrator of plans. Whereas ENFPs are very laid-back, go with the flow, don't really care about what they're doing as long as they're having fun, and tend to be quite messy.

Obviously, you may not exhibit those traits on an extreme end of the spectrum, but I think examining it in that fashion might be your best bet at this point.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

asmit127 said:


> I've just read this again and you were doing a pretty good impression of an INFP up until
> 
> 
> umbrellasky said:
> ...


Ok I’m going to take back what I said here. Maybe when I was younger I was more of a follower but the older I get the firmer my idea of right and wrong is, and my confidence in standing up for these beliefs is stronger. I don’t just go along with everything. Sorry I suck at answering these questions! It seems to take me a while to dig deep. 

A few years ago my friends were smoking cannabis and they offered me some and I said no. My reason for this was because I thought it was wrong and also because I didn’t know much about the drug at the time so I didn’t know how it would affect me. So I didn’t go along with that. I think it depends on the situation, if I feel like it’s going against something I believe in then I won’t go along with it. I’m trying to think of some more examples. 

It’s difficult for me to think of a situation that went against what I believed to be right. We talked about the death penalty and I said how my opinion differed to that of my older brother’s so I didn’t agree with him then. I didn’t just go along with what he said. 

Oh and the issue with the Christmas decorations, when one of my housemates, Laura, had decided on the colour theme for our christmas decorations without consulting the rest of the house this really annoyed me. Tony (my other housemate) said he had brought some tinsel with him from home that he wanted to put up and Laura asked what colour it was and he told her, but it didn’t match with her colour theme she had planned so she told him that he couldn’t put it up. This peed me off so I told my other housemate Christina how peed off I was and she agreed with me and together we told Tony that he could put his tinsel up and that we would help him. And we did put it up and Laura said nothing haha. Is that a good example?

Sorry, these probably aren’t good enough examples, but I’m struggling to think of any. 



asmit127 said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > Although I’m having a dilemma about which housemates to move in with at the moment because I’ve been asked by two different groups of people and I’m worried that I might offend one group by not choosing them. One of the groups is actually two girls, one of them I like but the other I don’t like very much so I don’t really want to live with her, but then I feel bad about the other friend who I do like. Does this count?
> ...


I’ve been trying to work out my reasons for feeling like I should move in with Grace and Laura and there seem to be many including:

Grace and Laura are planning to find 3 guys to live with them so that we aren’t a house full of girls. Having guys just balances things out personality wise and I feel bad for both of them if I turn around and say that I don’t want to live with them, they are struggling to make up the numbers because they haven’t made many friends. Christina already has 3 other people to live with so they won’t miss me as much…but I think I’d actually prefer to live with Christina, plus the other 3 people she wants to live with I am friends with too.

So it’s not so much me wanting to live with Grace, I don’t feel that close to her, she is very reserved and with Laura there it’s almost impossible to get to know her. I suppose I just thought that moving in with them I might be able to get to know Grace better, but Laura will still be there so I doubt that will happen. 



asmit127 said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > ENFJs do not like dealing with impersonal reasoning. They don't understand or appreciate its merit, and will be unhappy in situations where they're forced to deal with logic and facts without any connection to a human element. -Would this apply to things like abstract art?
> ...


Oh ok, then I’d find impersonal reasoning difficult I think. 



asmit127 said:


> :laughing: There are many more rules than that! Do you walk in the cycle lane? How often do you use a pedestrian crossing, and do you ever wait for the green man? Have you ever forgotten a friends' birthday card? These are some of the rules of society which can be broken repeatedly without consequence (unless you have really sensitive friends :mellow, there are of course many more.


I was being lazy…I couldn’t think of anything haha. Cycle lane, do you mean the ones where it’s on a pavement and you have a side for pedestrians and a side for cyclists? If so I’d have no problem walking in the cycle lane if no one was using it. 

I use pedestrian crossings a lot because most of the time it’s quicker than trying to cross the road without one. However, there is one in Winchester that takes forever to change so I don’t even bother pressing the button I just wait until the road is clear and then cross. 

Because of my upbringing I’ve never celebrated birthdays, but this year I decided that I will so I bought a card for two of my housemates and a present for one of them. I bought a present for only one of them because I don’t consider the other housemate a ‘friend’ we just live together and I thought a card was enough. Although all my other housemates did buy him a gift…I also didn't have time to go out and buy him something and because he was late moving in I hadn't had time to get to know him so I didn't know what to buy for him so I thought it was best not to bother.

When I was about 8 or 9 years old I had a friend who lived in the same street as me and one day we decided to walk into town together without telling our parents. My mum pretty much let me go outside to play all day on my own without her supervision, I think my ‘sweet’, 'non rebellious' personality led her to think she could trust me not to get into trouble. I knew she wouldn’t be happy if she found out that I had walked into town, which was about 20 minutes from my house. She never did find out though...I think that’s probably the most rebellious thing I’ve ever done…I remember being disciplined as a child but I can’t remember what it was I was being disciplined for. 

I’m starting to remember some things now from when I was a kid. My mum said I used to draw all over the walls in my bedroom and I think she was happy to let me do this because it stopped me from drawing on the walls in the rest of the house...I have a memory of being in my room with this other girl drawing all over the wall haha. I mentioned this to my mum recently and she said she wasn't happy about me doing it, but I don't remember being diciplined for it. One time when my older brother was babysitting me he fell asleep and woke up to find that I had drawn pictures on the wall from one end of the living room to the other :crazy: 

I can also remember asking my younger brother to do something very dangerous…I look back now and I can't believe that I allowed him to do it! I still feel terribly guilty for it. You know those plastic vampire teeth you can buy from the fancy dress shops? Well me and my brother were using a light bulb to melt them…and then for some reason I asked the question: ‘I wonder what would happen if you spat on the light bulb.’ And so my brother decided to try it and the light bulb blew up in his face. He wasn’t injured (thank goodness!), but crikey I think how stupid I was to come up with that idea. I shouldn’t have let my brother try it! I shouldn’t have even suggested it! Then again he did get me back when he pushed me down the stairs in a cardboard box and I cracked my head open...

I’ve noticed that my younger brother always seemed to be the one protecting me. I remember a time when I was being bullied, again I must have been between the ages of 7 and 10, and he used to get angry and try to protect me from the bullies. That’s one thing I’ve noticed about him, even now he seems to look out for me. I feel like I should be looking out for him, I’m the big sister. 



asmit127 said:


> umbrellasky said:
> 
> 
> > ENFJs are people-focused individuals. They live in the world of people possibilities. More so than any other type, they have excellent people skills. - I’m not sure about this one. I wouldn’t say that people are intentionally my priority – they just somehow become it. If I see someone who needs help I am drawn to helping them. At my last workplace I was often putting my own tasks to one side to help others with theirs. I suppose people find me approachable and just generally helpful…
> ...


Yeah in the workplace people were often coming to me for help and I was pretty knowledgeable about human resources so they’d often check things with me before making a decision. My manager got annoyed with this because I was the lowest paid person in my department and according to my manager my colleagues who were on a higher grade shouldn’t have been asking me for advice on how to do their job they should be asking people on the same grade or their managers. At first I was offended by this because I was quite happy to help my colleagues and because I know what it’s like when you have a problem that is stopping you from being able to complete a task it’s so much easier to ask someone you know will have the answer rather than wait until a manager is free. But I could see her point. 



asmit127 said:


> Then we get to the ISTJ profile which barely mentions emotions, but you try to twist it to do so. You relate to lots of the I aspects which is backed up by your library story, an extroverted F type would usually smile at people and have casual conversations, they may have no interest in seeing the person again but would still talk just to check they are happy and to pass the time. This sounds like an unusual thing for you.


I do smile at people but most of the time I don’t get the sort of response I got from the guy in the library. I think that might be because I’ll only briefly look and smile and then look away but because this guy responded quickly to my smile he was able to hold my gaze for a bit longer...it was…strange.

But I agree I don’t converse with strangers unless they start a conversation with me, or if there is a reason for me to converse with them. 



asmit127 said:


> You do try and twist yourself around some of the T aspects but they don't really fit, especially
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I can be a bit of a perfectionist about myself not about others. Most of the time I’m quite happy to let people carry on doing whatever it is they want. I’m not the best person to ask if you want something critiquing because I’m too worried about hurting the person’s feelings, so when I does criticise I end up covering it up by pointing out the good points, which I know isn’t very useful for the person!. 



asmit127 said:


> Then we get to the S bits - a library of facts. I'm struggling to remember you coming up with any interesting trivia despite watching Qi which is full of it, so wasn't surprised to read you don't relate to this. I really liked the idea that you knew the baking trays would be unusable after sliding down a hill too - clearly not spoken from experience :laughing: Out of interest are the trays still usable?


I don’t know what happened to the trays in the end…they didn’t belong to the house but to the individuals. They never mentioned them again and I didn’t ask so I don’t know.

Ah yes Qi, the facts are interesting but I watch it more for the people that go on there and for the comedy rather than to find out interesting facts. 



asmit127 said:


> In short you're looking very INFP to me, which isn't a surprise. I usually enjoy talking to healthy INFPs :happy:


:happy:


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## Mark Novbett (Apr 3, 2012)

@viva: Implication that E refers to human contact is where you are wrong. Look at ENTPs, they could be by themselves as long as it suits them. Days, months - if it serves them best. E refers to socialization deemed necessary by the society. It is however, not. It may be working out that way for you, it is not the case for other types.

@penchant, simplest way to figure out if you are an E or I - do you chew a lot while eating food? Do you produce more saliva? Find out if you don't realize.


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