# Define "Curves"



## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

What is it? What is the difference between curves and fat? So a guy says he likes curves what is he really trying to say? What is thick? Is thick the same as curvy? What is voluptuous? Is that the same as thick? What is BBW? Is that curves ? Someone saw my pic and asked if I was a skinny Minnie or if I had curves. That's preposterous! I couldn't be skinny if I tried. And I have.  so am I missing something here? 

Just straight to the point answers would be lovely. Most know my brain has neurotic knots so I'd rather not veer into the, be loud, proud and pudgy to show the world your self esteem. Thank you.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

When a man says curves I think he usually means big or prominent breasts and a big/toned bottom. It's kind of funny because 'skinny'/size 8 women can also have curves.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> When a man says curves I think he usually means big or prominent breasts and a big/toned bottom. It's kind of funny because 'skinny'/size 8 women can also have curves.


Size 8 is skinny ?!


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

> Breast, hips, and thighs  Booooottyyyy


From Yahoo answers. The curved edges of a the body.


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## changos (Nov 21, 2011)

*Easily put:* popcorn has curves but has no shape, no form. Most of times this solves the puzzle... women are about shape and proportion, not size exactly. Voluptuous goes more in the sense of curves and shape but out of proportion usually.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

NK said:


> Size 8 is skinny ?!


UK size 8 is pretty skinny. Isn't it a US size 4?


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## Northcrest (Sep 21, 2012)

I consider this curvy. Maybe thick or close to it

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/35463_457270884324191_1545135790_n.jpg


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> UK size 8 is pretty skinny. Isn't it a US size 4?


I was JUST about to say that. Size 4 is skinny. Not 8. I forgot our sizes are different here. I was nearly excited! Lol! :tongue:


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> When a man says curves I think he usually means big or prominent breasts and a big/toned bottom. It's kind of funny because 'skinny'/size 8 women can also have curves.


It might sound politically incorrect, but I see it more as the "absence of masculine features" - meaning sharp angles, or lean muscle. Breasts are basically sacks of fat, and female hormones give a more "round" appearance to facial features. This of course ignores many "hybrid" body types.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

Is this really another thread to bash womens bodies?


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Northcrest said:


> I consider this curvy. Maybe thick or close to it
> 
> https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/35463_457270884324191_1545135790_n.jpg


Ok, so that means thick is bigger than curvy? And she's kinda the in between?


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

NK said:


> I was JUST about to say that. Size 4 is skinny. Not 8. I forgot our sizes are different here. I was nearly excited! Lol! :tongue:


Sorry, bit of size confusion there due to countries lol I'm probably a US size 4/6 but I'm not curveless.



> Is this really another thread to bash womens bodies?


It wouldn't be normal without at least one a day!


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

LeoCat said:


> Is this really another thread to bash womens bodies?


Why am I bashing anyone if I want to know? I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I'm not saying one is better than the other. But pretending one size is the same is others is nonsensical too. I am NOT bashing. Just curious. And for the record, I'm NOT skinny. That's why I asked.


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## Northcrest (Sep 21, 2012)

NK said:


> Ok, so that means thick is bigger than curvy? And she's kinda the in between?


I would say so but their are different types of curvy. Like some said earlier usually it consist of wide hips and top. The more weight, the higher on the thick scale I would say. The lady I posted I would say is curvy, and close to thick. Thick tends to look like, in my opinion kind of chubby, but a little more physically toned. At least that's what I get. But a lot of people use the terms curvy and thick interchanglbly.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Done if a guy calls me ''thick'', in particular. Just...no.


However,men are all over the place.l have been called too thin at 110, ''curvy'' at 103 lbs by a guy who had a really, really thin preference for women, liked Olsen twin type women and have only heard thick at over 115.

People in general do not know what they're talking about half the time, there's a certain way l like my own body to look and that's really all l care about.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

See ... That's what I mean. So really it doesn't matter because what one guy considers curvy another considers thick. good. Problem solved.  but really, I'm far from skinny but maybe that person likes lots of curves. I didn't mean to upset anyone. I'm sorry I posted against the movement I do appreciate. Just wanted to know.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/08/ec/f5/08ecf50394acdc2715f5340c3678eed2.jpg

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/84/c5/a5/84c5a5390d34925e7f78c380796b6307.jpg

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/93/f0/fe/93f0fe864b9b13583a593548d636a103.jpg

All three women are thick and curvy.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Kyandigaru said:


> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/08/ec/f5/08ecf50394acdc2715f5340c3678eed2.jpg
> 
> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/84/c5/a5/84c5a5390d34925e7f78c380796b6307.jpg
> 
> ...


That first picture looks shopped?


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Kyandigaru said:


> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/08/ec/f5/08ecf50394acdc2715f5340c3678eed2.jpg
> 
> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/84/c5/a5/84c5a5390d34925e7f78c380796b6307.jpg
> 
> ...


I think a lot of these terms are subjective, anyway, since one culture or subculture might have different ideas of what fits into each category. Someone might consider a woman "rail thin" while someone else would consider that average and ideal. Women athletes get me going, when a lot of guys think they're "too manly".


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

nah...some women just have that extra phenomenal curves.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Holy fucking shit I just started reading that book on my kindle and that's creepy! I always wondered wtf. Even Fernando who held himself accountable was pissed when he did and later did like a man only to really disappear though was there when he had to but then is completely consistently "incommunicado" ... He hates me!! :shocked: 

This is what I'm talking about! They all love so intensely only to really hate my guts and I think honestly, (as with each one) I was the epitome of the parent they hated or who abandoned them, except for One, where I was like a mix of both parents though I know he associated me with the parent he most struggled with and me too, they're all like my mom, totally mean and cold but "loving"(not all but most) and I've read that it's healthy and normal we end up w/someone like the parent we have the most issues with so this makes sense. Only when your parents are completely nuts like my mom who thinks it's 1952, ... Omg I'm a crazy person and doomed to love men who hate my guts!!! I'm never gonna have sex again!! 😩😩😩😩😩😭😭😭😭😭😪😪😪😪😪 :sad:


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Naturally thin women and body shapes are not 'nasty'. Anorexia isn't nice to see, it's a disease and people struggle with it but calling people 'nasty' is just immature. Naturally thin women do not equal anorexia, some people are just slim and slender. I don't think you have a right to be calling anyone nasty because of their body type. That's like calling people with blue eyes or green eyes nasty. Come on.


The trend of "stick-thin" women sets a bad precedent. We all know how many models starved and purged themselves in order to "fit" an ideal that wasn't natural for* all *of them. How many young girls, and women, severely damaged themselves trying to live up to an unhealthy body image? 



> Just because you feel curvy = better doesn't mean you can slag off other body types. It's just shaming other people for things they have no control over.


I bet you don't feel so good about posting that now that you know Koalaroo is a bulimic?


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## the_natrix (Aug 10, 2011)

NK said:


> I want to know whose bright idea it is, to increase someone's self esteem by telling them, they suck because they hate themselves. Lol!! I'm happy about your post. I'm not mad or speaking to you. I just find it interesting when discussing self esteem issues, why people don't notice how counterintuitive it is.


It's like the distinction between "you suck" vs "you're sucking", one is a criticism against character, the other is a criticism against performance. It's performance, you might hate yourself now, but you could do better lol. 

For people like me it's best if you aren't too touchy on a subject. A good while back I tried speed dating and I got to a table with a gal with some amount of extra fat, started talking, she was into business stuff, she seemed well driven which is awesome. Then I made a remark on how speed dating makes you feel like a piece of meat, she immediately got some indignant look. I decided against giving out my number because I figured she would take a fair bit of stuff personally and it would be a hassle of a relationship.

Another thought just came to mind, I'm not terribly well researched on this thing so bear with me if I say something offensive or ignorant. Se people focus on looks more right? Would getting some Si shift that focus? I see my progress from working out and it gives me some confidence. If you already work out then maybe start taking selfies or some such thing to track your progress, that might be like faux Si. Just a thought.


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## lookslikeiwin (May 6, 2014)

I'd like to point out that I am sometimes a size 8 and it looks pretty damn good on me because I am tall and I _do_ have curves - but I'm not fat at all at that size. Size 6 is as skinny as I can get without looking anorexic.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

@LeoCat - I've never been skinny. I think the thinnest I've been in my adult life is 150 lbs (I'm 5'10.5"). I looked like an 18 year old when I was 12, and so because I blossomed early, I was definitely given the fat label despite being a kid active in soccer & basketball who just happened to have tits and hips. The peer pressure and fat shaming (despite that I was not fat) from the other girls was horrendous.


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## JoanCrawford (Sep 27, 2012)

Marilyn Monroe is pretty curvy. I think of it as having larger breasts and thighs.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

the_natrix said:


> It's like the distinction between "you suck" vs "you're sucking", one is a criticism against character, the other is a criticism against performance. It's performance, you might hate yourself now, but you could do better lol.
> 
> For people like me it's best if you aren't too touchy on a subject. A good while back I tried speed dating and I got to a table with a gal with some amount of extra fat, started talking, she was into business stuff, she seemed well driven which is awesome. Then I made a remark on how speed dating makes you feel like a piece of meat, she immediately got some indignant look. I decided against giving out my number because I figured she would take a fair bit of stuff personally and it would be a hassle of a relationship.
> 
> Another thought just came to mind, I'm not terribly well researched on this thing so bear with me if I say something offensive or ignorant. Se people focus on looks more right? Would getting some Si shift that focus? I see my progress from working out and it gives me some confidence. If you already work out then maybe start taking selfies or some such thing to track your progress, that might be like faux Si. Just a thought.


Ew. The word selfies make me want to puke. But, I suppose it's a good idea. I'm not actually out of shape like obese or anything. And I'm not ripped all work out buff and I'm never gonna be. I'm just overly sensitive for complicated(yet actually simple) reasons. Intellectually, I can care less. But if I want to relax and be intimate, I choke. I actually was really comfortable sending pics once but I had already built a comfort level with that person. It was nice. But in the dating world, people aren't taking their time getting to know each other in a context casual where I can feel comfortable with who that person is. It's not fair to either myself or others in this way. I want to tone down. I'm more or less dramatic at times for self entertainment to take the edge off of addressing issues (rather than ignoring them). I don't hate myself or I wouldn't be so motivated to fix skewed perceptions. 

I don't really flinch when meeting men. I do all my spazz outs online anonymously because I'm aware some of it or most with any person might be just in my head.  (but historically , I have a sad history with men who are awesome and then hurtful in a snap). Passive aggressive, self sabotaging, and low self esteem ... I suppose it's what I always say, like attracts like. Even when the parties are opposite. If I'm still struggling with issues of passivity and self esteem, I'm gonna keep attracting knuckle heads. :dry:

If ever I marry I want the cake to say "knuckle head and nincompoop" .. You think I'm joking but I'm not. I want it to be in Las Vegas. With THAT on my cake. And Elvis marrying me with a midget as the maid of honor and a dog as the ring bearer. I'm SO SERIOUS. 

because that would make me smile knowing I finally made it out of all the absurdity behind my forehead. Lol!! Oh!! AND a prenup. And a contract. So as to protect ourselves from the Demons in our souls and it will be the checks and balances we need. Unless the maid of honor moves in as the referee ... But I refuse to pay her more than the guy who will cut the lawn. 

*and that folks. Is what's called utilizing your wing to cope* 

i can't possibly move through hell without a little comedy relief. :tongue: Even though I was kinda serious.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

lookslikeiwin said:


> I'd like to point out that I am sometimes a size 8 and it looks pretty damn good on me because I am tall and I _do_ have curves - but I'm not fat at all at that size. Size 6 is as skinny as I can get without looking anorexic.


Thank you for pointing that out. 

I would like to point out that I'm short and you now have reminded me that size 8 is fat. Lol!! I think maybe I'll get into boxing. I hate weight lifting but, maybe, I can buy a punching bag and all of this might resolve itself naturally. 

I think I'm onto something!!


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

NK said:


> Thank you for pointing that out.
> 
> I would like to point out that I'm short and you now have reminded me that size 8 is fat. Lol!! I think maybe I'll get into boxing. I hate weight lifting but, maybe, I can buy a punching bag and all of this might resolve itself naturally.
> 
> I think I'm onto something!!



Its really simple. 

Take up calisthenics. Build as much muscle as possible. No you won't "get bulky" and compete with yourself. Cardio, no more than an hour a day. It is ridiculous to train too much and it raises insulin and cortisol levels which make you stressed and gain fat easier.

50 pushups every other day
50 squats
50 pilates roll ups... 
50 martial arts kicks to the side, front and back. 

Maybe some weights or dips for your triceps if you feel adventurous but for you I would suggest starting easy. 

I had my sister who is training for the police academy, doing 200 of each plus squat thrusts and hindu squats and pushups and more. She calls me the devil.

I love training people its just like being a dominatrix, feeds my sadism nicely with the touch of a little therapy work and the results at the end are even more rewarding.


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## the_natrix (Aug 10, 2011)

NK said:


> Ew. The word selfies make me want to puke.


Yeah, I don't like it either, but it rolls off the tongue better than "regular-interval body composition updates" or some such thing =P


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

koalaroo said:


> @_LeoCat_ - I've never been skinny. I think the thinnest I've been in my adult life is 150 lbs (I'm 5'10.5"). I looked like an 18 year old when I was 12, and so because I blossomed early, I was definitely given the fat label despite being a kid active in soccer & basketball who just happened to have tits and hips. The peer pressure and fat shaming (despite that I was not fat) from the other girls was horrendous.


150 pounds on 5'10 IS skinny.

I am 5'9 and solid muscle. I look positively bones at that weight. Have people trying to feed me and stuff. Never again will I go that low.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

LeoCat said:


> 150 pounds on 5'10 IS skinny.
> 
> I am 5'9 and solid muscle. I look positively bones at that weight. Have people trying to feed me and stuff. Never again will I go that low.


I'm actually overweight at the moment, but it's not uncommon for bulimics to become overweight. If you binge but can't purge ... yeah.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

LeoCat said:


> Its really simple.
> 
> Take up calisthenics. Build as much muscle as possible. No you won't "get bulky" and compete with yourself. Cardio, no more than an hour a day. It is ridiculous to train too much and it raises insulin and cortisol levels which make you stressed and gain fat easier.
> 
> ...


Oh man. You realize I would be your most ridiculous client. I would seriously be all, "uh! Uh! I can't do this!" And flop on the floor and make a sweat angel on the mat. .. I was actually thinking boxing because I'm "frustrated" lol!! But I guess you're right. I should do weight resistance stuff. It's just not fun. I like jogging. But that hobby I typically have to take long break from shin splints. I always get those! :/


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

the_natrix said:


> Yeah, I don't like it either, but it rolls off the tongue better than "regular-interval body composition updates" or some such thing =P


But do I have to look like I'm 17 again? Really? Can't I just dress up or not have the lights on? Lol! I'm not even obese or anything. I just want to be a normal American who isn't neurotic. Is that too much to ask for!


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

NK said:


> Oh man. You realize I would be your most ridiculous client. I would seriously be all, "uh! Uh! I can't do this!" And flop on the floor and make a sweat angel on the mat. .. I was actually thinking boxing because I'm "frustrated" lol!! But I guess you're right. I should do weight resistance stuff. It's just not fun. I like jogging. But that hobby I typically have to take long break from shin splints. I always get those! :/


Let me put it this way.

Working out until you can't move will make you less neurotic. 
and buff.

There is a rush that comes with a good strength training and calisthenics workout that is very visceral and I find delicious. Almost as good as sex. 

You won't have to worry about "looking fat" because even if you went up a pants size your nicely rounded ass and firm toned body would be the center of attention. You would gain some self confidence and respect too for meeting some goals and being productive with your fears. 

I have a balance beam in my bedroom and my bed with an extra thick double mattresses on top ( they call it my treehouse bed) because I love jumping up to get in bed. With the added bit of playtime I have firmed up even more and dropped a few inches in a month. 

I don't charge people either I torture them for fun. I am a tech.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

LeoCat said:


> Let me put it this way.
> 
> Working out until you can't move will make you less neurotic.
> and buff.
> ...


I must confess. I'm not worried about being fat. I'm distracting myself from the pain of fear, of letting someone actually be that close to me. Let's be real. A 6 isn't stupid enough to buy their own bullshit. Doesn't mean I don't play in it every so often. I'm afraid of being vulnerable and I'm afraid I'll be hurt. That's the crux of it. Would I like to be more disciplined with work outs? Fuck yeah! But one has nothing to do with the other. Focus on body is also easy because it's tangible. Fearing someone might hurt me is not. I had a crazy end to a 10 yr. marriage that ended in him dying. He was acting psychotic and I left thinking the separation would be good for us with space. Next thing I know he calls creeps out from the woodwork. Old friends that never grew up and got into way worse things than pot. He started doing drugs, fucking some whore, his trust fund told him to divorce me or he'd be cut out, he wanted me back still, then he dies. Talk about a mind fuck!!! I date an INTJ and "behave". I date an ESTP and "reform" ... I'm done blaming myself. But I was the psychological strength and I killed him. But it wasn't my fault. I had no idea what power I had and I will never get close to another man unless he can survive behind his own forehead without me. Not to mention, I've never had anyone be strong for me. Since, I've been with a disabled child and bla bla bla you know the rest. The punching bag would be anger from just everything. Not "men". As far as I'm concerned, that ESTP I hope breaks a leg his next iron man and gets SUPER FAT and ugly for letting me be there naked and not fucking me and blaming me and I can't be mad w/ my husband for stop sleeping with me. Things were bad and it was probably medicine induced lack of sex drive. Maybe. I don't know. I used to be really really pretty when I was young and I started going out with him when I was 17. 

Ugh. Anyways. I'm sorry I'm fucked up and confusing. If you lived near me though, I would totally swap training for massage. I'm a massage therapist and would totally do that. But the fuck it'll be for some stupid asshole who habitually hurts my feelings because he "loves" me so much. Know what I mean?


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## lookslikeiwin (May 6, 2014)

NK said:


> Thank you for pointing that out.
> 
> I would like to point out that I'm short and you now have reminded me that size 8 is fat. Lol!! I think maybe I'll get into boxing. I hate weight lifting but, maybe, I can buy a punching bag and all of this might resolve itself naturally.
> 
> I think I'm onto something!!


I did kickboxing for a while and that was really good.

I wasn't saying you're fat, but I was a little upset that MY (normal*) size was being called "fat"  it isn't necessarily an indication of fatness.

I am currently a little overweight, and I am not a size eight anymore. I got married, and the man won't eat vegetables. Plus I like cheese too much for my own good.


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## the_natrix (Aug 10, 2011)

NK said:


> But do I have to look like I'm 17 again? Really? Can't I just dress up or not have the lights on? Lol! I'm not even obese or anything. I just want to be a normal American who isn't neurotic. Is that too much to ask for!


Meh, it's up to you what you look like, if you like what you see then that should instill some confidence I would think. Personally I didn't look good at 17, nowadays though since Iv'e put in work I like what I see. I'm not even sure if being neurotic is related to self image or not. 

I might suggest meditation though, I plan on guiding my grandma(INFJ) through some meditation this week to see if her stress reactions can be lessened and her mind calmed. It's not a quick fix mind you.


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

NK said:


> I must confess. I'm not worried about being fat. I'm distracting myself from the pain of fear, of letting someone actually be that close to me. Let's be real. A 6 isn't stupid enough to buy their own bullshit. Doesn't mean I don't play in it every so often. I'm afraid of being vulnerable and I'm afraid I'll be hurt. That's the crux of it. Would I like to be more disciplined with work outs? Fuck yeah! But one has nothing to do with the other. Focus on body is also easy because it's tangible. Fearing someone might hurt me is not. I had a crazy end to a 10 yr. marriage that ended in him dying. He was acting psychotic and I left thinking the separation would be good for us with space. Next thing I know he calls creeps out from the woodwork. Old friends that never grew up and got into way worse things than pot. He started doing drugs, fucking some whore, his trust fund told him to divorce me or he'd be cut out, he wanted me back still, then he dies. Talk about a mind fuck!!! I date an INTJ and "behave". I date an ESTP and "reform" ... I'm done blaming myself. But I was the psychological strength and I killed him. But it wasn't my fault. I had no idea what power I had and I will never get close to another man unless he can survive behind his own forehead without me. Not to mention, I've never had anyone be strong for me. Since, I've been with a disabled child and bla bla bla you know the rest. The punching bag would be anger from just everything. Not "men". As far as I'm concerned, that ESTP I hope breaks a leg his next iron man and gets SUPER FAT and ugly for letting me be there naked and not fucking me and blaming me and I can't be mad w/ my husband for stop sleeping with me. Things were bad and it was probably medicine induced lack of sex drive. Maybe. I don't know. I used to be really really pretty when I was young and I started going out with him when I was 17.
> 
> Ugh. Anyways. I'm sorry I'm fucked up and confusing. If you lived near me though, I would totally swap training for massage. I'm a massage therapist and would totally do that. But the fuck it'll be for some stupid asshole who habitually hurts my feelings because he "loves" me so much. Know what I mean?



I do kung fu, krav maga, mma, boxing, pole/belly and a little ball room dance among other things. 

I suggest you try pole for fun and exercise you build great strength too. Plus it will get you in touch with yourself. I think its empowering for a woman to own her sexuality and its a lot of fun, like a sexy ballet. 


I am speechless and I understand you so well now. I'm sorry for what you went through.

I was married to a psycho twice who I was his emotional and psychological support. He told me I kept him from flipping out and killing people. I loathed him but pitied how crazy and self destructive he was. so we were 'married" but it was an open marriage that consisted of me telling his friends to stop trying to mount me behind his back. 

The second time I did it to fix my credit because Im smart.  I have a perfect score now.

Hes still a pain in the ass, it has to do with wanting love, emotional needs.. being a very feelery guy who spend half his life trying to make a cold thinker chick his trophy. Hey I told him at sixteen, I don't trust you, I will never love you. Stop wasting your time. His girlfriend is my very close friend and she adores him and hes her pet.. he even takes her makeup off with face cream when shes too tired to and shit I would never allow. I don't do slave treatment. 

But I understand feeling responsible for their well being because they are nuts. 

I think you could do better though.. I think you sell yourself short. I think these men won't solve the pain you have and you are way too sensitive and emotional to try and numb yourself by going through them.

I am sorry that estp rejected you, maybe he was going through something himself. I can't say.

But you can't let others dictate your self esteem or you will be waiting forever. 


Also, you didn't kill him. People have a fucking choice. No matter how crazy they are. You are not responsible to carry some grown man through life.

I think you would do best with a fellow feeler. Some crazy idealistic XnfX who loves poetry and is a fellow manic pixie with you.. Maybe into photography, writing, wears a scarf. You seem like that mellow androgynous guys type.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

@LeoCat are you kidding ? A fellow feeler? I want to be the sensitive one. I have never had romantic feelings for a feeler ever. I love them as friends, dear to my heart. I might be able to be sexual with one but I need that mind connection. It's never there w/feeler types. Everything else with your post, thank you. ) and I know. I probably am wasting my time. But that's probably because I haven't intuitively been ready. Maybe next year. Hoping.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Duplicate.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

As I understand it, this is what is commonly thought of as curvy:














Not curvy:









It doesn't mean the same thing as fat, nor does it apply exclusively to women with tiny waists. If someone is the type who likes comparing a woman's body to food or other objects, which one probably is if he cares about whether you are curvy, it is usually more about having either a pear or an hourglass shape, which is possible at all sizes.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Long post alert, since this is something I feel very strongly about...

@NK
Maybe you don't want a Feeler because you secretly know he'd actually be good for you? 
My man is a Fi dom, and he's neither all mushy, nor anything else "Feelers" are so often accused of. He's just sensitive, but in a good way. I'm often called the "Thinker" in our relationship, but I'm not T either. All of this thinking/feeling stuff is just... a lame excuse 

In all seriousness, forget about Myers Briggs and try to get out of your head a bit (and I'm saying that as someone who also did this in the past, it's not that I don't understand). The past experiences you describe are truly horrible, and they will always affect you in one way or another, but they can also be a catalyst for something good instead of haunting you for the rest of your life. 

I was deeply emotionally wounded when my boyfriend died, and it took me years to fully recover from it (including a few casual relationships and a 3-year-stint of a shitty marriage). In many ways, it was also the catalyst for changing my life though. I'm not sure if I'd have changed jobs and taken up my "crazy, mannish hobbies" (not my words ) if I hadn't lost him, but that's another story...

Is there no exercise you enjoy? If you enjoy running but get shin splints, improve your technique (don't overdo it at the start) and get better gear/shoes (get measured).
There's so much stuff out there, I honestly believe there's something for everyone. It really makes you feel better, but it takes a while to form a habit (more than three weeks, that research is old), and until that happens, you have your amazing brain to tell you that you need to stick with it, and that you'll be grateful if you do. 
You'll need to convince yourself less if you find something you really enjoy though. For me, it was always dancing (since childhood), and then martial arts/Krav and motorcycling/racing (you have no idea how strong your core and arms need to be for that shit, which keeps me motivated to lift a bit, despite not liking it overly much). 
Long story short: There are things out there you will enjoy, that will make you feel: Can't wait!

Like @_LeoCat_ I'm also harping on about this a bit, because exercise will help you in so many ways. The adrenaline and endorphin rushes are one thing. Taking your mind off things is another. A sense of accomplishment is another. It's not primarily to transform your body, that's just a nice side effect, but you shouldn't feel you're primarily doing it for that reason (exercise _will_ transform your body, but many people overestimate what it does for weight loss, or muscle gain and fat loss - nutrition is far more important for that).

I was always tall and naturally slim (130lbs at a height of 5'10 at my slimmest). I have a really small frame for someone my height, and the amount of abuse you get for being naturally slim - the amount of people who want to tell you "you don't eat enough", or that there's something wrong with you. There isn't. There's no "exactly right weight for a certain height" because it depends on so many things: Frame, body composition (fat/muscle ratio) etc. 
Today, I'm usually roundabout 145lbs, sometimes more, sometimes less. I was 155lbs once when I trained really, really hard. That was still very slim, it was just more muscle. My clothing size was always roughly the same (small fluctuations aside), no matter if I weighed in at 130lbs or 155lbs. To attach pure weight to the "skinny/fat"-label is just stupid. We're not all the same.

I went through the "she's got no tits"-phase like @_Animal_ (mine only gradually appeared when I was 16/17), I was called ugly, too. These wounds run deep, and you never fully lose those insecurities once they've established themselves. I was always the brainy and musically gifted one (which only made the bullying worse at school), but never the pretty one. 
I can rationalise these things today, and I know I was never objectively ugly. It's sadly just what kids do at school, and some never seem to leave that mindset behind. For that reason, those insecurities, and the scars they left, are manageable to the extent that they stopped affecting my personal relationships. _That_ is a choice I've made, and it's definitely possible. 

I went exactly the other way that some people instinctively would: Instead of building up walls (I did that for years), I tore them down and showed people the true me - vulnerabilities, warts and all. Instead of testing people, I trusted them/gave them the benefit of the doubt from the outset. That doesn't mean I won't kick them to the curb if they abuse that trust btw, but it was hardly ever necessary.

Some might think that's naive and crazy, but I swear to you that my life is a million times better since I've adopted that mindset. There are truly horrible people out there, but not as many as I initially thought


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

tanstaafl28 said:


> No I posted it. Don't blame @_koalaroo_. As I stated, I find Twiggy nasty and unappealing.


So you're saying it's bad for others to judge people with 'curves' yet you're saying something completely unnecessary about a woman just because of her body shape. I think that's called being hypocritical?



> Here's the crux, Ms. Offended-by-Everything. I'm going back to someone else's original statement and what he meant, which is that the skinny model trend is nasty. The reason it's nasty is because anorexia and bulimia are nasty business (P.S., I suffer from bulimia -- it's nasty shit and I've been suffering from it since I was 12.) You seriously seemed to miss the marker on that, and you still seem to have yourself whisked into an overly offended, unnecessary frothing frenzy. Newsflash: not every person or concept needs White Knighting.
> 
> I will however stand by what I said earlier: androgynous figures are not feminine.


How was I supposed to know you have/had your own battles with bulimia? I'm sorry about that, it's awful but I didn't know. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of some people in this thread. People are shaming other body types to prop up another. Surely you could possibly agree that's a counterproductive thing to do? Why should anyone be made to feel unfeminine for lack of curves? I'm feminine because I have a uterus and ovaries. I'm not more masculine because I don't have larger breasts or hips. 

The argument for stick thin models wasn't what I was even talking about. I said:_* Some people are naturally skinny/thin like many people I have met. People have different body shapes; like what @Promethea's thread tried to get people to accept.*_ Calling people nasty because of theirs is just plain spiteful. 

& I didn't have to resort to name calling you so I don't know why you feel the need to do it to me.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

FallingSlowly said:


> I went through the "she's got no tits"-phase like @_Animal_ (mine only gradually appeared when I was 16/17), I was called ugly, too. These wounds run deep, and you never fully lose those insecurities once they've established themselves.* I was always the brainy and musically gifted one (which only made the bullying worse at school), but never the pretty one. *


Yup me too. That does make it worse because you're a target for attention.



> I can rationalise these things today, and I know I was never objectively ugly. It's sadly just what kids do at school, and some never seem to leave that mindset behind. For that reason, those insecurities, and the scars they left, are manageable to the extent that they stopped affecting my personal relationships. _That_ is a choice I've made, and it's definitely possible.


Exactly!! =D



> I went exactly the other way that some people instinctively would: Instead of building up walls (I did that for years), I tore them down and showed people the true me - vulnerabilities, warts and all. Instead of testing people, I trusted them/gave them the benefit of the doubt from the outset. That doesn't mean I won't kick them to the curb if they abuse that trust btw, but it was hardly ever necessary.
> 
> Some might think that's naive and crazy, but I swear to you that my life is a million times better since I've adopted that mindset. There are truly horrible people out there, but not as many as I initially thought


I'm sort of like this. I have walls to some extent but for completely other reasons. In essence, I would have to say that I operate in a similarly open-hearted way that you do. It's just that when I had my illness I emerged with no singing voice and speaking in a whisper forever, almost died, etc - and also lost the love of my life at that time, because both of us had tremendous PTSD from traumas - and love wasn't enough to save us from ourselves. Losing everything of myself- my voice, my brain, my hair, my ability to walk and move (though I recovered my motion thankfully) .. all at once at `16.. caused some trauma-reactions which included feeling afraid to get attached to anything, because anything I work hard for or love will be taken away, through no fault of my own. So for years I did build walls, and then I spent the next decade trying to tear them down.

But oddly enough, the way I deal with people is very similar to you, regardless. I let them in with an open heart and see what happens, but don't tolerate any bullshit etc. I've had the same experience as you, realizing people aren't that horrible overall, though some are - but the only way to find out is to be open, honest and real. I operate very much like this - up to a point. I put my vulnerabilities out there - up to a point. The "point" is where my attachment or dependency on that person begins - because the minute I need someone, or expect they will be in my life, the PTSD kicks in and tells me they will be taken away. I've always been very autonomous anyhow by nature, so I took extra steps to build even more walls, so I could get close to people without actually needing them or relying on them in any way, or even believing they would be there tomorrow. Obviously this is problematic - and it applies to activities too.. music, writing, photography.. anything I feel very invested in, might be taken away at any time. (And there is actually truth to this, as my illness comes and goes, and takes things away at various times. For instance I built up a band singing through my whisper, which took me years of hard work to build up, building a lifestyle in the city etc, building rooms in a loft with my own money and renting them out, making firm roots and establishing connections for music, and then the illness came back and I had all these allergies and had to leave my apartment and lost even my whispery voice again and had to end the band that I spent years writing for, managing, producing, recording, booking, promoting blabla)… so I have to live, basically knowing that due to my condition, no matter how perfect and good and responsible I am about taking care of myself, and no matter how passionate I am about bringing my dreams to fruition, everything is temporary. This is not helpful where relationships are concerned. It's very hard for me to make the separation and realize that yes, I can lose my voice, hair, looks , energy to the illness, and someone I love would still be there. So I am open hearted in how I get to know people, but generally isolated and doing things myself as a lifestyle, to avoid letting anyone down by suddenly becoming a complete invalid through no fault of my own… and expecting that anyone in their right mind, would not want to deal with that.

But all these things considered, I am STILL open-hearted in the way you describe, to a large degree, which I think is interesting.


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

NK said:


> What is it? What is the difference between curves and fat? So a guy says he likes curves what is he really trying to say? What is thick? Is thick the same as curvy? What is voluptuous? Is that the same as thick? What is BBW? Is that curves ? Someone saw my pic and asked if I was a skinny Minnie or if I had curves. That's preposterous! I couldn't be skinny if I tried. And I have.  so am I missing something here?
> 
> Just straight to the point answers would be lovely. Most know my brain has neurotic knots so I'd rather not veer into the, be loud, proud and pudgy to show the world your self esteem. Thank you.


Simply put, depends on the guy.

We don't really have universal definitions of body types.

Use the word curvy, and you could be describing a skinny body with big tits and a big butt, or a pudgy body. Most people use the word curvy to mean the former, from what I know.

Use the word burly to describe a man, and it could mean that he has giant Mr. Galaxy muscles, or he's a bit chubby.

Plus, you should be happy with your body if it's a little pudgy. It's not a bad thing by any means. A lot of guys, including me, think a little pudge is a great thing on a partner. Same thing with being built a little thinner. There are people who will like it just the way it is.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

The first time I heard the term curvy was in junior high, and it was used loosely to describe feminine body shapes, which can mean just about anything. Ten years later someone made it out to mean wider or larger than the average human size, while bashing anyone who was thin.

For humor's sake


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

@_FallingSlowly_ I'm sorry we share similar experience but happy you can relate on some level.  I think I've done a good job behind my forehead and I think people ought to know, playing with our own bullshit, even buying it for a time(defense mechanism) is healthy as it intellectually hits pause while our being catches up assimilating an experience into who we are. Though our mind should never leave on hiatus too long rationalizing or those very coping mechanism will become who we are as well, as opposed to a tool for us to utilize. 

This forum is very much a platform for a multitude of purposes of the mind to use as a tool. People to play with for practicing new skills, people to learn from, emotional support, Etc. I don't put my "best" face out here because I quite literally use this place to be able to be my best in real life. Make sense? I don't mean for this truth to minimize any input from anyone! If anything, it's testimony to how much I seriously appreciate the support and fresh perspectives I collect on a constant basis.  

as far as being with a feeler goes. It's not that I'm anti anything. But as you said it's like you're the thinker in the relationship, I DO NOT WANT THAT! I have been the "thinker" for forever now!! I'm fucking tired. My husband was a type 7, and honestly, way more ENFP than ENTP though so very ENTP-ish that I'm apt to think unhealthy ENTP (that can present as ENFP as most know), Fi users gravitate towards me and I'm not sure why. The INTP I was involved with was a better fit even though it didn't work out. And he was pudgier than me! So really, that doesn't matter. He was adorable. And I adored his smile and laugh and his constant weird ideas. Thinkers are sensitive too. And more so in a way and it's a type of sensitivity that melts me. It's peanut butter jelly. Now my best friend is Ne and Fi. And we are two comrades and it's an amazing friendship. But romantically? 

I need someone who doesn't make me feel like I'm the thinker. I need someone who makes me feel like I can relax. Not think (for once! I think too much as it is!). It doesn't matter if this person is pudge or not, Fi or Fe, if T or F, heck! I don't care if he's a sensor! So long as he can laugh. And enjoy being who he is. And someone who enjoys who I am. That brings out my best- which is not thinking so much! When men are foolish I kick in overdrive and think too much. Because I'm sorta mommy nurturing. It's gross, I know. But I do it with friends too. Probably why I have a hard time keeping very close friends. I can be brutal with honesty. And I generally don't have many who argue I'm wrong. Thinkers are more apt to catch things I don't and typically are the ones that challenge me most. And so I need that. And while many thinkers lack the capacity to see the bigger picture (not ideas but the forest AND the trees) some do consider feelings as well as their other knowledge and truth to bring to the table. That guys the one for me. The problem is timing. I've so many hurdles. Even now, the state is playing peek a boo with me and my situation is yet to be stable. Once it is, I can focus on working, and relax a little because I can plan a direction and move. However, having sex is a stress reliever so the issue was on my mind and attached to the issue is some of my bullshit I've yet to totally rid myself of. 

lol!! I must be the most embarrassing person on this forum. :blushed:


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

NK said:


> What is it? What is the difference between curves and fat?


In general I have noticed (on the internet) that people use "curves" to mean "not slim" or "not skinny." Regardless of how curvy the slim/skinny girl is.

I think it's like a euphemism for chunky.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

I think I will need some naked pics to evaluate all these questions....my inbox is waiting! 

NK it sounds like you need to be directed to the "casual sex" thread.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Frenetic Tranquility said:


> I think I will need some naked pics to evaluate all these questions....my inbox is waiting!


Says the curvy man. :laughing: 

I'm sorry! Couldn't help it! Lol!! 

Just that you're not the first guy to offer to settle an argument that way. Lol!

What would have been fair is if you said, "I'll show you my curves if you show me yours" :tongue:

Joking! Not an invitation &#55357;&#56849;


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

<--- Curvylicious :wink:

Think you mentioned earlier in the thread that it's subjective. You could come up with some objective measure but it'd be useless since people would have their own thresholds of what would qualify.


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## Frenetic Tranquility (Aug 5, 2011)

NK said:


> Says the curvy man. :laughing:
> 
> I'm sorry! Couldn't help it! Lol!!
> 
> ...


I will admit, it does curve up a little. How did you guess? 

P.S. Sharing is not that uncommon around here, just sayin'


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## IncoherentBabbler (Oct 21, 2013)

I consider curvy to be, in simplest terms, healthy body fat: Neither rolls nor rigid boniness. Voluptuous extends that further to mean larger curves, yet still smooth / gradual, shapes. I'd think "thick" would refer to a body regardless of how curvy they are - this would apply to mesomorphs and endomorphs mostly (though is likely to be taken as an insult).

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, "curvy" is associated with feminine hormones, creating a softer overall body (and face) shape.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

eydimork said:


> The first time I heard the term curvy was in junior high, and it was used loosely to describe feminine body shapes, which can mean just about anything. Ten years later someone made it out to mean wider or larger than the average human size, while bashing anyone who was thin.
> 
> For humor's sake


I realize its supposed to be funny, in that "who'd srsly pick the soft pale guy" - but I'm honestly more attracted to a guy whos softer than a guy whos thin and cut like the one on the right (zero appeal to me), just sayin'. Cuz ppl rilydo like all different things. :3 I found a homosexual man on tumblr who shares my taste there, and I learned that apparently in the gay community theres a word for fetishizing men like the one on the left: they call them "chubs" and sometimes "bears."

Chub (gay slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Curvy" men have admirers too. ^_^


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## FePa (Feb 13, 2014)

According to one very sensitive, wonderful man...

Straight lines are precision, perfection and precision

curves are beautiful
♥


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

Promethea said:


> I realize its supposed to be funny, in that "who'd srsly pick the soft pale guy" - but I'm honestly more attracted to a guy whos softer than a guy whos thin and cut like the one on the right (zero appeal to me), just sayin'. Cuz ppl rilydo like all different things. :3 I found a homosexual man on tumblr who shares my taste there, and I learned that apparently in the gay community theres a word for fetishizing men like the one on the left: they call them "chubs" and sometimes "bears."
> 
> Chub (gay slang) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> "Curvy" men have admirers too. ^_^


The guy on the left is far from a bear, he's plain fat.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Dragunov said:


> The guy on the left is far from a bear, he's plain fat.


I was talking about in general, not just that one guy. Yes, sometimes a chub is also a bear like it actually says in the link.


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

Promethea said:


> I was talking about in general, not just that one guy. Yes, sometimes a chub is also a bear like it actually says in the link.


This is what a bear type body looks like. As you can see it's far from "chub".


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Dragunov said:


> This is what a bear type body looks like. As you can see it's far from "chub".


I'm going to repeat myself one last time: even the wiki says theres overlap. 
I am well aware of what "bearmode" looks like, in guys who lift. I dated a few body builders. 

Jesus fucking christ the petty ass nitpicking that goes on here.


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## Dragunov (Oct 2, 2013)

Promethea said:


> I'm going to repeat myself one last time: even the wiki says theres overlap.
> I am well aware of what "bearmode" looks like, in guys who lift. I dated a few body builders.
> 
> Jesus fucking christ the petty ass nitpicking that goes on here.


I was trying to correct you but alright,get lairy.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Dragunov said:


> I was trying to correct you but alright,get lairy.


You didn't fucking correct me, wtf. You misunderstood what I meant in the first place then you didn't bother to listen to that fact or read the damn link.


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## emerald sea (Jun 4, 2011)

"curves" are defined by the man using the word. 

some define "curves" as being of a healthy weight for one's frame, and having developed reproductive organs naturally without undergoing any (photographic) renovation or surgical improvement, _rather than_ any of the following: 

1) appearing prepubescent (despite having experienced puberty) and waif-like like many models' photos sadly are, or 
2) self-starved into being size 6 or below ~ IF that is neither a natural nor a healthy weight for her frame, or
3) Barbie-like, as only actually occurs after extensive plastic surgery, or 
4) of a body weight that appears in traditional (airbrushed and accentuated) porn

the above definition of "curves" is usually only used by men whose primary experience with women is either digital or 2D, and/or who - through over - exposure to the fantasy world rather than the real world of women - have lost the ability to appreciate feminity as it naturally occurs in nature.

a more standard definition of "curves" is the literal one - possessing a body shape that curves extensively, such as with prominent breasts, noticeably large waist-to-hip ratio, and wide hips or large butt. 

any man biologically wired as a heterosexual or bisexual DOES find a large waist-to-hip ratio attractive, and additionally may appreciate _some_ (either breasts or butt/hips, or all of the above) curves in a woman. 

usually a woman's attractiveness is far more about how _proportional_ she is (having an hourglass figure) than it is about her actual _weight_. 

those who deny that they like an hourglass-shaped woman whom Hollywood would label as "fat" are usually such slaves of what other men think that they are afraid to admit they like a body type that the men around them might say is "fat" or "ugly," lest their fragile sense of masculinity be threatened. all it would take is for their male peers to rave about a woman, for them to somehow rapidly change their evaluation of her. 

the more confident a man becomes in his own masculinity, the less he cares about other men's evaluation of what he finds attractive in a woman. 

i find it ironic that those men who view women who are size 8 and above as somehow "fat" or "ugly" today would lose their "man card" if they called Marilyn Monroe either "fat" or "ugly," although she was a size 14. if that doesn't prove that what _some_ men say they find attractive is MORE determined by male-peer-consensus than by what they actually feel attracted to, i don't know what DOES.

if ever any element of society has become completely _*delusional*_ about what is _actually_ attractive in a woman, it is the overlords who take it upon themselves to narrowly define "beauty" within American culture.

if you have any curves or a noticeable difference between your waist size and your hip size, be happy about it ~ you've got what most heterosexual men want. and if you have a naturally slim body, be happy about that. and if you have a naturally size-8-or-above body, be happy about that. no matter what culture tells you, there are men out there who will find you attractive, and if they are ashamed to say they are, _they don't deserve you_.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Promethea said:


> I realize its supposed to be funny, in that "who'd srsly pick the soft pale guy" - but I'm honestly more attracted to a guy whos softer than a guy whos thin and cut like the one on the right (zero appeal to me), just sayin'. Cuz ppl rilydo like all different things. :3
> 
> "Curvy" men have admirers too. ^_^


You are so right - you are not the only woman I have heard say this. I have heard others say that they like the chubbier, rounder men. Like they are cuddlier or something. And that appeals to them. I think that's really cute.

However, I would like to pose a question -> In school we learned about some sort of psychological theory (probably by Freud.. can't remember the name of the theory) that went along the lines of.. we are attracted to what our opposite-gender parent looks/acts like.

The theory is used to explain why sometimes women can be attracted to abusive men.. because perhaps their father was abusive and they are subconsciously drawn to that.

I'm wondering (like I know you probably are not attracted to your father -- but can you objectively answer ) does your father have the same body type as the men you find most attractive?

I think I find Scarlett Johansson's body type perhaps the most attractive to me... and objectively-speaking.. my mother does have a very similar body to hers.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

emberfly said:


> You are so right - you are not the only woman I have heard say this. I have heard others say that they like the chubbier, rounder men. Like they are cuddlier or something. And that appeals to them. I think that's really cute.
> 
> However, I would like to pose a question -> In school we learned about some sort of psychological theory (probably by Freud.. can't remember the name of the theory) that went along the lines of.. we are attracted to what our-opposite gender parent looks/acts like.
> 
> ...


Lol nah.. my dad was always medium build (I prefer broad frame), though he always thought he needed to lose weight even though he didn't. He liked the beach, so he probably had some neurotic hangup about wanting to look more cut, iunno. He wasn't intellectual in the least, either, and I tend to like intellectual men. He has dark hair though, and I tend to prefer dark hair. *shrug*

I have been attracted to many different types, but I know that I like at least some softness. I have tried to figure out why, and have gone so far to do research on attraction most of my life in part because _my own_ attractions have never been considered "normal." Various groups of female friends that I've had could generally agree on whos 'hot' but anyone I pointed out got reactions ranging from "eh..?" to "REALLY LOL??" I do suspect that I associate a certain look with tryhard - and thats the toned surfer guy look, or the gymrat with bfp in the single digits. I have dated a few guys like that and I just didn't like it as much as the softer ones. The ones obsessed with their looks were most certainly self-absorbed, too - would rather stare in the mirror than at me. : P


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

emerald sea said:


> "curves" are defined by the man using the word.
> 
> some define "curves" as being of a healthy weight for one's frame, and having developed reproductive organs naturally without undergoing any (photographic) renovation or surgical improvement, _rather than_ any of the following:
> 
> ...


It has gotten crazy. I was talking to a 50 yr old dude about it the other day, and he said that the women he grew up fapping to were considered _*skinny* at a size *8*_.. these days that is considered plus size, wtf.

A medically healthy weight is sometimes even considered 'chubby' from what I have seen on some image boards. x_x


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

emberfly said:


> However, I would like to pose a question -> In school we learned about some sort of psychological theory (probably by Freud.. can't remember the name of the theory) that went along the lines of.. we are attracted to what our opposite-gender parent looks/acts like.
> 
> The theory is used to explain why sometimes women can be attracted to abusive men.. because perhaps their father was abusive and they are subconsciously drawn to that.
> 
> I'm wondering (like I know you probably are not attracted to your father -- but can you objectively answer ) does your father have the same body type as the men you find most attractive?


It is psychologically common, but not a general rule. For some, it's actually exactly the opposite.

I have a very tense relationship to my father (let's say - we choose not to talk to each other more often than twice a year or so, and then we're actually getting along okay. It's safer and less emotionally exhausting for both of us that way).

I am attracted to the _complete_ opposite of my father, physically and emotionally. My father never had any self-control, no restraint whatsoever. That showed physically and in the way he dealt with his relationships. People who know me and him will probably understand why, to an extent, I am the way I am, and why I don't find that type of man attractive in any shape or form. 'Nuff said


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## emerald sea (Jun 4, 2011)

Promethea said:


> I have been attracted to many different types, but I know that I like at least some softness. I have tried to figure out why, and have gone so far to do research on attraction most of my life in part because _my own_ attractions have never been considered "normal." Various groups of female friends that I've had could generally agree on whos 'hot' but anyone I pointed out got reactions ranging from "eh..?" or "REALLY LOL??" I do suspect that I associate a certain look with tryhard - and thats the toned surfer guy look, or the gymrat with bfp in the single digits. I have dated a few guys like that and I just didn't like it as much as the softer ones. The ones obsessed with their looks were most certainly self-absorbed, too - would rather stare in the mirror than at me. : P


i've found that softer body = kinder, less (overly) aggressive. 

the more a guy pumps iron, the more elevated his testosterone levels become, and testosterone that is too high produces a guy who is difficult and potentially dangerous; the less muscle tone, the more empathy (due to moderation of testosterone levels relative to estrogen levels). 

since men have both male & female hormones, just as women do, just in different proportions for each gender, and the levels of each hormone vary somewhat within each individual of each gender, i think that nature seeks equilibrium ~ and have a strange theory that, the higher a woman's natural levels of estrogen, the more testosterone she seeks in her man (which actually reveals itself with the changes in her hormone levels during her cycle modifying who she feels most attracted to); and the higher her natural levels of testosterone, the more influence of estrogen she seeks in her man. could that be true, or am i WAAAY off base?

you are so right - it's hard to get into a guy who is a self-worshiper, who is obsessed with weights and gyms because of being in love with his own body ~ he's more about propping his own ego than about loving any girl...but i feel for a guy who turns to lifting weights because he feels insecure about himself...it's a different attitude and makes you just want to help him feel better about himself and realize he doesn't need to do all that.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

FallingSlowly said:


> It is psychologically common, but not a general rule. For some, it's actually exactly the opposite.
> 
> I have a very tense relationship to my father (let's say - we choose not to talk to each other more often than twice a year or so, and then we're actually getting along okay. It's safer and less emotionally exhausting for both of us that way).
> 
> I am attracted to the _complete_ opposite of my father, physically and emotionally. My father never had any self-control, no restraint whatsoever. That showed physically and in the way he dealt with his relationships. People who know me and him will probably understand why, to an extent, I am the way I am, and why I don't find that type of man attractive in any shape or form. 'Nuff said


Guys who remind me of my father turn me off *instantly*. I grew up watching him decimate my mother's self-esteem, with his skinny young women fetish, and fat-phobia. My mom gained weight as she aged and after having children, like all women do (he expected her to be as skinny at 41 as she was when she was 21), and he told her things to break her down like: "your sister has a better figure than you" or "you look like a plump chicken sitting there" and "I think she's hot (the twat neighbor my mom hated)." It was often deliberate. He wanted her to feel like shit so he could control her.

He was not only insecure, but anti-intellectual and sexist as fuck. He would come up with these fucktarded little ways to "test" my mom's intelligence, and mine, then he would laugh at us, though he was often completely incorrect himself. He would laugh and say "women." Like, "granted, they're moronic because they're women hur hur." 

He absolutely *prided* himself on his "caveman" demeanor he called it, and frequently disrespected our boundaries. I dated one guy -once- who had a few similar qualities that only came out after he was comfortable enough to show his pig side, and I ran from that situation. Never again. They make my skin crawl.


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## Devrim (Jan 26, 2013)

When someone has boobs or and ass(Or both) that are visibly distinct in regards to their contours,
Whether a side view or right from the front


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

emerald sea said:


> i've found that softer body = kinder, less (overly) aggressive.
> 
> the more a guy pumps iron, the more elevated his testosterone levels become, and testosterone that is too high produces a guy who is difficult and potentially dangerous; the less muscle tone, the more empathy (due to moderation of testosterone levels relative to estrogen levels).
> 
> ...


I think you're onto something here. 

I'm extremely turned off by a guy who gets too aggressive with me, unless its strictly in the bedroom sometimes when we're just changing things up for fun. I mean assertive when it comes to boundaries is healthy for anyone, but the actual hotheaded rage case with a fragile ego, nope! And thats another thing, ego - a lot of gym-obsessed diuretic-binging guys are _deeply_ insecure, and guess how that manifests in a rage-case: angry zoo animal; couldn't be more turned off by something. 

I think its most attractive when a guy has just a normal body, but carries it in a confident -- _not conceited_ -- way. Feeling comfortable in one's own body without a 'tude is hawt.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

My dad was a walking archetype of widely admired social ideals re: 'masculinity' including physical masculinity. XD He was 6'3, lean, muscular and athletic. He had been in the military, headed police departments, swam and ran regularly, played football, hockey and more regularly, and never quite stopped with his military style boot camp work outs. LOL. I found his commitment to fitness and the reasons for it (functional strength, solid health as opposed to vanity alone, though I am sure looking good was a nice bonus to him) admirable. I find it attractive when a guy is physically active and strong, not from being a gym rat, especially of the broz b4 hoez type, but because he is just active thanks to playing sports or because of his profession or caring for fitness etc., regardless of specific body type. 

People who are into getting six packs just to meet aesthetic ideals (the bros, wannabes and tryhards) are fuckin hilarious and tend to be very insecure as @_Promethea_ mentioned . Many of them lack functional strength and would lose miserably, in any kind of physical challenge, against someone who isn't as 'cut' but is strong as fuck from a fit and active lifestyle, without having to frequent gyms for the sole purpose of looking a certain way. The only times I find six packs etc. attractive are when I see them on professional athletes or highly athletic people whose training just happens to result in low enough body fat (as opposed to achieving this look for the sake of it). If you're fuckin Usain Bolt or a very athletic person in general , dem sex packs look hot. Otherwise, wannabe douches needn't apply. :3

That said, I am most attracted to physical strength and active lifestyles. I am very attracted to men with my dad's physique. But, I don't get fixated on particular body type, and I do find bigger men attractive as well, when, as I said, they're active etc. Slim and average guys who are physically strong and active are also sexy. The 'skinnyfat' types who are thin but never leave their fuckin couch...no I'll pass. Height isn't a big deal to me, either. 

As for personality, my father was fuckin amazing. He was a body and sex positive feminist, and he raised me to be a critical thinking, independent, highly self-reliant, assertive and generous woman. I get my charitable streak from him. <3 He was very objective and possessed traits associated with 'masculinity' lolz, and yet, he had a very well-rounded personality, with a powerfully protective and generous side. He treated me and the other women in his life, with the utmost respect. He was a lawyer and was socially influential, and whenever he could, he helped women and children in abusive situations. He was a firm disciplinarian and a very loving father, despite what many considered an intimidating exterior. I felt respect for him and don't even remember fearing him. He was fabulous in every way imaginable, and I consider myself fortunate for having had a father like him, especially given the kind of life I led after his passing (a lot of discrimination, violence, abuse and more). His positive and inspiring influence eased my way through the darkest paths imaginable. 

Women learn what to expect from men, in all kinds of relationships from romantic to friendship to professional, very often from their fathers, father figures or even strong maternal figures who acquaint them with respect, boundaries and more, especially with the opposite sex. Thanks to my father, I have an especially unambiguous idea of what a good man worthy of my respect, attention and love is like, and I continue to and always will refuse to settle for anything less. I am fortunate that while I've gone out with some idiots briefly, no man has ever been dumb enough to shame me for my appearance or abuse me in any way. That would have ended badly for them, instantly. Period.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

This was great:-

Louis C.K.'s Rant on Fat Girls Is Absolutely Magnificent





> Louis C.K.'s sitcom _Louie_ has a reputation of mixing humor with equal parts poignancy and last night's episode "So Did the Fat Lady" was no exception.
> 
> In the episode, Louis meets Vanessa (played by Sarah Baker) — a funny, vivacious, pretty and open-hearted woman — at the Comedy Cellar where she is working as a waitress and he, as usual, is performing standup. After his set, she asks him out on a date, but — despite all her appealing attributes — he declines. The next time they bump into her, she once again charms, asks him out again and he says no. The chemistry is there, but Vanessa is fatter than women he's gone out with in the past and the idea of dating her makes him uncomfortable.
> 
> ...


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Animal said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know what you mean. I'm a very independent person. It's the fine line between wanting and needing someone, and that's always been an important difference for me. 
I personally don't like "symbiotic" relationships (they make me barf if I'm honest - that's just me, not saying people can't be happy that way. I just know I couldn't). I believe in having each other's back, making a commitment and being headed in the same direction; in being best friends and lovers without losing one's identity. I don't want to be in one of those couples who stop being "you and I", who never use another word than "we" and don't even notice.
I feel _very _deeply, but staying with someone is a choice I make. The thought it is a need that I have no control over whatsoever feels like devaluing the depth of the feeling, if that makes any sense (probably not, it's hard to explain)?

I guess for me, being confronted with death has brought out the exact opposite. I luckily didn't experience illness in the same way you did, but none of the women in my family I personally knew (both mother's and father's side) made it beyond 65. My mother was well under 60 when she died. If my genes are fucked (which I don't want to know - that's something some people don't understand either), it might also happen to me. My mum had breast cancer the first time when she was 30, so I already did a little dance due to the fact I'm now almost 10 years older and still okay.

It's because I am so aware I could lose it all that I don't want to have regrets. That includes relationships, but also all other decisions I've made since.

So I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is that it's not so much the fact that I'm worried about depending on someone, because that's simply not the type of person I am. It's rather wanting to experience something real with all the consequences, no matter how briefly, and accepting it might not be forever. I do, or I don't, but I don't do it half-arsed.

That sounds rather weird, never mind 



NK said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's about what you're comfortable with, so more about general relationship dynamics than the ominous F/T divide (*cough*bullshit*cough*). I mean, feelers think and thinkers feel, that's just all so... yeah, I don't even know. 

The three most important people in my life are Fi, Ti (that one you know about *rofl*) and Si. I love them all, and I could kick their bums at times all the same. I just don't care what type they are, we get along because we _want_ to. We've all made an effort for literally decades, and it was worth it ten times over.

Unlike you, I'm fine being called the "thinker". I've always been that type of person, and I'm comfortable with it. Has nothing to do with T, more with Ni/Se in my case. I personally don't even believe that the auxiliary or tertiary are anything close to as important as the dominant/inferior interplay (I always think that a strong perceived F/T dynamic points to being either F or T), but that's a different subject. 

So if you don't want to be the thinker (whatever that means in your case), then of course you need to avoid men who bring that side out. It really is about comfort, about being able to be who you truly are. Or even who you want to be, as in the best you possibly can be. I know I'm incredibly glad that I have found that someone, but I don't take it for granted. We both don't, and that's also important, because I couldn't be in a relationship where only one person is pulling all the weight and makes all the effort.

I never really felt that cognition was a major obstacle in any of my relationships, rather psychological health and general life experience. Maybe enneagram plays more into it, don't know (I'm 459, shock horror). I have no mothering instincts whatsoever when it comes to my close relationships - I probably feel a bit like that towards my students, but men or friends? Nope. So I guess I just don't have that particular problem of getting more motherly when men are immature or whatever. I just go totally cold and withdraw, but I don't start to think more (I do that anyway, and I quite like it that way *lol*). And that has also caused me problems more than once.

Well...

* *


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

FallingSlowly said:


> I know what you mean. I'm a very independent person. It's the fine line between wanting and needing someone, and that's always been an important difference for me.
> I personally don't like "symbiotic" relationships (they make me barf if I'm honest - that's just me, not saying people can't be happy that way. I just know I couldn't). I believe in having each other's back, making a commitment and being headed in the same direction; in being best friends and lovers without losing one's identity. I don't want to be in one of those couples who stop being "you and I", who never use another word than "we" and don't even notice.
> I feel _very _deeply, but staying with someone is a choice I make. The thought it is a need that I have no control over whatsoever feels like devaluing the depth of the feeling, if that makes any sense (probably not, it's hard to explain)?


I'm completely with you here.
I'm independent and autonomous to a fault. Always have been.

When I used the word "need" or "depend on" it might have been an overstatement, because I would have to be a whole different kind of person to operate that way. What I mean is, feel comfortable, like someone will still be there the next day. For me THAT is hard, since things fall away from my life, out of my control.

I mean I lived for many years, not knowing whether I'd be able to walk the next day. Not being able to hold a job because sometimes I don't know what is going on. Being very confused intermittently.

When I say "need" I mean having ANY SENSE OF STABILITY whatsoever.
I'm not talking about being incapable of spending time by myself. In fact, I need more time to myself than anyone I've ever met. It's a huge adjustment for me to make time for someone else on a regular basis, though it happens naturally when I really want someone; but over a long term, I end up craving more time to myself, autonomy, etc.

But that's not what I'm talking about. My view is the same as yours on that. What I'm talking about is any sense of stability whatsoever, which is something that people with PTSD have lost. Any sense of: if I buy him a birthday present today, he'll still be here tomorrow to receive it.

I'm not inherently THAT insecure, or untrusting. It's just that in my life, when I've given my all to something, it's been taken away through no fault of my own - one too many times. Or ten too many times.



> I guess for me, being confronted with death has brought out the exact opposite. I luckily didn't experience illness in the same way you did, but none of the women in my family I personally knew (both mother's and father's side) made it beyond 65. My mother was well under 60 when she died. If my genes are fucked (which I don't want to know - that's something some people don't understand either), it might also happen to me. My mum had breast cancer the first time when she was 30, so I already did a little dance due to the fact I'm now almost 10 years older and still okay.
> 
> It's because I am so aware I could lose it all that I don't want to have regrets. That includes relationships, but also all other decisions I've made since.
> 
> ...


^ Yeah me neither. I'm talking about depending on the fact that if I schedule a date for this weekend, I'll be able to walk on Friday.


I'm talking about depending on MY OWN BODY, and thus, being able to feel comfortable letting someone depend on me for anything.

It's not about confronting death once. That, I could recover from , (and did, the first time) though it is indeed traumatic. It's about losing all my faculties, suddenly, out of nowhere, every time I build up any kind of established life.


ANd I don't do anything half-assed either, which makes this even harder. I want to be able to give the kind of relationship that I feel in my heart, but my body prevents me. I wnt to keep my promises, but my body prevents me. And I never know when. It might be fine for a year, then bam, I can't work, have to move back to mom and dad, lose all my money, lose my job, lose my band, get high fevers etc etc


This has nothing to do with a dependent character. I started taking vacations alone at age 8, had a music career by age 13 until the illness left me speaking in a whisper at 16, later fronted my own band singing through a whisper - managed, promoted, booked, wrote every song, sang, played piano… and for the sake of my music, moved to a shitty NYC neighborhood all alone and had loft rooms built with my own money, knowing nothing about building, and kept track of roommates and bills and everything for 5 years, had to deal with theives, liars, bedbugs and all sorts of horrors in the city and being assaulted on the street and standing my ground by myself, standing up to political bullshit, landlord bullshit, roommate bullshit and much other bullshit, all on my own, more effectively than most richer, older, healthier people there ( friends who were perfectly healthy and well off came running to MY place from abusive relationships, came running to MY place when they lost their jobs, came running to MY place for all sorts of support, and I opened my door to all of them, and somehow held on to my place when they could not deal with the NYC rat race, even though I was sick and could not work that much). I depend on nobody for anything and handle things myself - almost to a fault. I am anything but clingy or dependent, and I need tons of time to myself and have tons of my own projects and visions that do not involve a lover and in fact would be held back by a very needy SO.

But it's still hard to tell someone that I will go to their sisters' wedding and have to know that if I get sick within the next 3 weeks, maybe I won't. Then he has to explain to his whole family why I'm not there. And then his family thinks I'm lazy. And asks, "Did [Animal] get a job yet?" and starts making assumptions about my character. This is what I deal with when I let anyone get close. And why I am cautious about feeling like I can depend on anyone, anything, or even myself; enough to actually build a career or a relationship. How can I establish a life with someone if I don't even know if I can go to work and pay the rent in a few months? How can I sign a lease?

I realize that rationally, anything can change at any time, anyone can die in a car crash, anyone can suddenly get sick - but rationality does not apply to the human psyche when someone has watched everything in their life slip away through no fault of their own, over and over and over, and there is no rational prognosis saying that it won't happen again, at any given time.

I am a very open-hearted, all-or-nothing, daring, independent person at heart. Life fucked with me. That's all I'm saying. I am still that same open-hearted independent person, but I just have a billion roadblocks that have nothing to do with 'psychological weakness' but still can manifest as psychological blocks, because of the way that my reality actually is, and has been.



> I have no mothering instincts whatsoever when it comes to my close relationships - I probably feel a bit like that towards my students, but men or friends? Nope.



Lol same here.



Also sorry if that sounds like a rant at your expense. It's completely my error and your interpretation made sense - I realize it was my wording that made it sound a certain way, but I just wanted to explain where I was coming from - because actually I related very very closely to much of what you wrote =)

It's just a very hard thing to explain. So if I sound angry its not at you. Its just at the situation and my frustration in trying to convey who I am, and how my whole life has affected me, in one post.


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## cinnabun (Apr 11, 2011)

I think in today's society there is confusion regarding what curves actually are. For instance, I've heard people saying that their understanding of curves is "fat" (which is complete bs). I've also noticed that when magazines showcase curvy women, they tend to be on the slightly larger side too. Why do people think that being curvy means being plus-sized? Curves are to do with the _shape_ of your body, thickness has to do with your weight. _All_ women have curves, it's the natural shape of the female body. That's why it doesn't make sense to me when I hear people say they'd rather be curvy than skinny. You can be thick and curvy, _or _slim and curvy...

All women are different. Some will be curvier than others, some thicker, some slimmer...it just depends on your genetic make-up. The point is, we're all sexy as hell, and if anybody tells us different, they can go fuck themselves:kitteh:. Girl powa!


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

@_FallingSlowly_ the comment you made about not doing all the leg work, that. It's like I'll be in a boat, all is well and these guys will rock the boat or flat out flip it over. Then I try to climb back in the boat or try to maintain it from sinking. I just need to be better at letting go, ironically, I sense the resentment when I do. And it doesn't help that I really am that "supporter" tri-type. And all stupid counter phobic for the most part. I wish I wasn't so stubborn and hard headed but on the other hand there is NO WAY I would have survived this game thus far otherwise. 

It's like we get a hand of cards. Well that analogy, people forget the stakes. I happen to be playing a high stakes game. Not to sound pompous but seriously, an entire future of a disabled lil boy rests on my shoulders. Maybe my problem is that most of my dating has been w/ those accustomed to playing at the Mickey Mouse tables. As @_Leo_ Cat points out. I'm wasting time with boys. What's weird is I never know at first and even INTP, as much as I wanted to count on him, he was just a boy. But we'll see. Each round I'm better w/ communicating. Just today I took a deep breath and was point blank honest. This, that the other. So I'm like this, that the other. And if that irritates you too bad. Not just like that but still. It was better than waiting for the "right time" and letting anxiety build up like a 'girl'. 

anyways bare in mind too that it's all relative. Everyone has their burden to bare. Just the pressure of adulthood is higher for some than others. And maybe it's the fact that I'm not good under pressure (or it's just been too long under too much pressure). 

@_Cosmic Orgasm_ how funny you mentioned CK. I've never seen his tv show but as a mom I'm a huge fan of his comedy. It's of course exaggerated but he's so funny about raising boys etc. Anyways, all I gotta say is that I suppose A part of my insecurity is because it's intimidating dating as a woman after "Life", ya know. 

It's just a whole different ball game after (as he says)
you've had a person crawl out of your vagina and step on all your dreams. LOL! :tongue: 


* *


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

xdollie. said:


> I think in today's society there is confusion regarding what curves actually are. For instance, I've heard people saying that their understanding of curves is "fat" (which is complete bs). I've also noticed that when magazines showcase curvy women, they tend to be on the slightly larger side too. Why do people think that being curvy means being plus-sized? Curves are to do with the _shape_ of your body, thickness has to do with your weight. _All_ women have curves, it's the natural shape of the female body. That's why it doesn't make sense to me when I hear people say they'd rather be curvy than skinny. You can be thick and curvy, _or _slim and curvy...
> 
> All women are different. Some will be curvier than others, some thicker, some slimmer...it just depends on your genetic make-up. The point is, we're all sexy as hell, and if anybody tells us different, they can go fuck themselves:kitteh:. Girl powa!


I think @snail had the best pics for example. She showed both thin and thick versions of curves. But I agree, it's a term that's insanely ambiguous and with so many different interpretations I really need to NOT worry about it!!


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

Curves - Sexy sized women with great proportions


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## Roze (Sep 12, 2010)

Yeah, I correlate curves to proportion more than anything. If I'm telling someone that they have great curves, I'm pretty much saying you have a nice body structure, not necessarily tits and ass. That's only a bonus ;D


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## Sara Torailles (Dec 14, 2010)

eydimork said:


> The first time I heard the term curvy was in junior high, and it was used loosely to describe feminine body shapes, which can mean just about anything. Ten years later someone made it out to mean wider or larger than the average human size, while bashing anyone who was thin.
> 
> For humor's sake


The left one is sexier to me than the right. X\


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

Curves vs Fat.

Note how one has curves and the other is fat.



















Is it not obvious that 'curvy' is in the same category as 'short, 'tall', 'tanned', 'pale', etc...

You can be fat _and_ curvy. You can by skinny and have no curves at all.

Any person who passes off their fat as 'curves' is an idiot, unless they actually have the body that fits the description.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Aren't those curves too in the technical physical sense? There's a description to fit for having curves now?


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Aren't those curves too in the technical physical sense? There's a description to fit for having curves now?


im guessing shapely curves verses fat curves.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Oh okay, only one is 'acceptable'. Gotcha.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

thanks for understanding?


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## Babolat (May 6, 2014)

Kyandigaru said:


> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/08/ec/f5/08ecf50394acdc2715f5340c3678eed2.jpg
> 
> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/84/c5/a5/84c5a5390d34925e7f78c380796b6307.jpg
> 
> ...


First one, for me, is pretty hot. Last ones, for me are too thick and curvy. 

I remember I met a Hispanic woman who said she got breast implants be be more curvy. to match her hips. She was pretty hot, "thicker" than my normal type, but I was very attracted to her body once she got naked. 

I love the curve at a womans hip where it meets her stomach, especially when she is laying on her side. Curve sometimes means "hourglass shaped".

My ex gf was 5'10", probably 130ish, amazing DD breast implants, great shoulders (V shape), thin armas, thin legs, wider hips yet she did not have the curve at her belly, more straight from hips to wasist. Her waist, to be curvy, could have been smaller IMHO. 

She was still hot as hell, but she was not curvy IMHO. She probably thought she was because of her DD implants and her wider hips.


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## Babolat (May 6, 2014)

HAL said:


> Curves vs Fat.
> 
> Note how one has curves and the other is fat.
> 
> ...


I don't see curves on the 2nd "fat" one'; I see a lot of straight lines. 

I skinny woman can "not be curvy" too. A woman I recently dated was tall and very thin, no real curvey. She had a great body, but she was missing the curves I like.


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## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Babolat said:


> First one, for me, is pretty hot. Last ones, for me are too thick and curvy.
> 
> I remember I met a Hispanic woman who said she got breast implants be be more curvy. to match her hips. She was pretty hot, "thicker" than my normal type, but I was very attracted to her body once she got naked.
> 
> ...


hat dont sound curvy to me neither


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

the_natrix said:


> It's like the distinction between "you suck" vs "you're sucking", one is a criticism against character, the other is a criticism against performance. It's performance, you might hate yourself now, but you could do better lol.
> 
> For people like me it's best if you aren't too touchy on a subject. A good while back I tried speed dating and I got to a table with a gal with some amount of extra fat, started talking, she was into business stuff, she seemed well driven which is awesome. Then I made a remark on how speed dating makes you feel like a piece of meat, she immediately got some indignant look. I decided against giving out my number because I figured she would take a fair bit of stuff personally and it would be a hassle of a relationship.
> 
> Another thought just came to mind, I'm not terribly well researched on this thing so bear with me if I say something offensive or ignorant. Se people focus on looks more right? Would getting some Si shift that focus? I see my progress from working out and it gives me some confidence. If you already work out then maybe start taking selfies or some such thing to track your progress, that might be like faux Si. Just a thought.


Im not sure Se cares more about looking a certain way than Si. Si may actually have a picky normative pattern of sexual attraction, and so could range from a blonde skinny stereotype to the freckled curvy redhead he knew at age twelve.

Se is probably just more visceral. Like I have noticed for example I like more graphic porn than some women, but don't necessarily expect men to look like Channing Tatum in fact I don't like him and prefer Jared Leto or Ryan Gosling. Similarly Se men may be more visceral but may prefer thick women, or thin.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

emberfly said:


> You are so right - you are not the only woman I have heard say this. I have heard others say that they like the chubbier, rounder men. Like they are cuddlier or something. And that appeals to them. I think that's really cute.
> 
> However, I would like to pose a question -> In school we learned about some sort of psychological theory (probably by Freud.. can't remember the name of the theory) that went along the lines of.. we are attracted to what our opposite-gender parent looks/acts like.
> 
> ...


Negative. My father and grandfather were both short stocky dark men...so apparently my mom went for a replica of her dad, just with long hair, but even her husband now of about eighteen years is tall with blue eyes and white hair that used to be blond.

The most recent man I was sexually involved with has lean wiry muscle and green blue eyes and dark curly hair that was blond until he finished puberty, so it's that lighter brown in adulthood.

I tend to like leaner toned men, I find angles very masculine, whether the guy is Eurasian or Latino. My uncle, my mom's brother, has lean wiry muscle and green eyes. Maybe I wanted to marry my uncle when I was five. Lol.

My issues with men are complex. I tend to have intense ongoing relationship with a push pull quality with persistent and attentive men.

I think the emotionally abusive relationship I was in when I was in my twenties had more to do with an overall childhood experience living with highly critical but extremely protective and doting guardians.

The guy who I have recently been involved with, I am more like his ISTJ sister than his ESFJ mom in build and coloring. They were extremely close growing up.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

Your husband , Uncle Lean Green ?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

People generally consider me curvy at any weight because I have large breasts. Natural. Only at heavier weights do I have an ass to go with them, and I have very muscular legs.

Some people might call me chubby or bordering on it, but in just this past week I have had two strange men try to grope me at the bus stop and in front of the library, and these were ok average men under thirty five, in broad daylight, not drunk old menz. Not that that makes it ok, it's just that I strongly appeal to a particular subset of men, even when I am not at a slim weight.

I have plenty of sexual partners, and mainly like to be at a smaller size for health. I have been treated like crap when I was eighteen and skinny with fake nails, and treated well at thirty when I was not skinny or high maintenance. Your weight does not determine how men treat you UNLESS you are morbidly obese, then yes, people become cruel somewhere around the point of obesity, especially towards women.

There will always some guy who thinks I am too fat and another one who tries to sext me on fb. Taste is subjective, it's largely attitude and who you choose. Also living in an urban area opens up more possibilities than a smaller town.

The two sexiest women I can think of are Christina Hendricks and Emma Stone. One is very slender and the other is curvy. Apparently I like redheads?


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

Your weight does not determine how men treat you UNLESS you are morbidly obese, then yes, people become cruel somewhere around the point of obesity, especially towards women. @fourtines I disagree , I know guys that have different opinions of girls that have some weight and I'm not just talking obese. The friends I grew up with always thought that + sized ( I like to call sexy sized  ) girls were easier to hook up with and easier to get in bed. I haven't and still don't think this way but there is a perception out there that bigger girls are easy to hook up with.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Bugs said:


> Your husband , Uncle Lean Green ?



HAHAHAHA...wtf...he's an ISFJ too, my uncle. A couple of years ago he tried to feed me in a Mexican restaurant like I was still a little kid. 

Maybe I made my uncle my template, I don't know why though


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

fourtines said:


> HAHAHAHA...wtf...he's an ISFJ too, my uncle. A couple of years ago he tried to feed me in a Mexican restaurant like I was still a little kid.
> 
> Maybe I made my uncle my template, I don't know why though


I don't find this creepy , should I?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Bugs said:


> Your weight does not determine how men treat you UNLESS you are morbidly obese, then yes, people become cruel somewhere around the point of obesity, especially towards women. @fourtines I disagree , I know guys that have different opinions of girls that have some weight and I'm not just talking obese. The friends I grew up with always thought that + sized ( I like to call sexy sized  ) girls were easier to hook up with and easier to get in bed. I haven't and still don't think this way but there is a perception out there that bigger girls are easy to hook up with.


Wel I am not plus sized, so I don't know if you are alluding to very overweight women being easy prey or something, but I could be wrong, you could be referencing the idea that people who like food also enjoy sex more, like they are more sensual in every way.


There are different types of men and there are different types of women ....to me it sounds like you are talking about frat boy "hogging" which is disgusting.

I know my ESFJ acquaintance got hit on a lot even in her late forties and she is fairly tall and slender, she just dressed sexy a lot.

I only noticed a difference.one time in my life when I was depressed and truly overweight after leaving a relationship, and I am still not sure if that was about my weight or my attitude.

I really don't care. Some men will fuck anyone that breathes, that's self evident, but I don't think I have noticed a big difference in my life, but I take care of myself, it's not like I am dowdy or matronly.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

@fourtines I was alluding to a common stigma I noticed with my friends growing up. Some of them were jocks and looked at women as 'game' This seemed universal for most guys that like to pick up on girls. Not obese , but slightly overweight girls were believed to have been easier to get in bed. Your comment where guys don't care about weight ( unless obese) I thought wasn't totally accurate . Its a maturity thing too. I'm talking years ago when this was relevant. Guys typically mature later and look more sensitively at women.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Bugs said:


> @fourtines I was alluding to a common stigma I noticed with my friends growing up. Some of them were jocks and looked at women as 'game' This seemed universal for most guys that like to pick up on girls. Not obese , but slightly overweight girls were believed to have been easier to get in bed. Your comment where guys don't care about weight ( unless obese) I thought wasn't totally accurate . Its a maturity thing too. I'm talking years ago when this was relevant. Guys typically mature later and look more sensitively at women.


Hmm ok, sounds to me you are talking about high school???

I know there are grown men who are into game, which is why I make them chase me or be persistent, because I am not interested in every creep who tries to talk to me.

I mean, some men think women with more tits and ass are sexy is because in some cultures it still indicates your fertility. As my ESFJ ex said once, Mexican men love their fat white women, so eat up!!! In a totally tongue in cheek manner of course.

But even then those cultures, like African American culture, tend to still prioritize curves rather than obesity, though you will have chubby chasers anywhere.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

fourtines said:


> Hmm ok, sounds to me you are talking about high school???
> 
> I know there are grown men who are into game, which is why I make them chase me or be persistent, because I am not interested in every creep who tries to talk to me.
> 
> ...



I'm talking about not just HS , but after. College and the Navy too ! At the time guys just thought larger women were easier but some of them really got it right back in the face when they been rejected . I've always liked chubby women as well as thin women. I wasn't ( am not) picky about body type so long as I found it attractive. For me its more about how intelligent , charismatic , and just downright stimulating a girl is for my oversaturated mind . In short , somebody not boring  . I have a thing for quirkiness too. And yes , attraction to curves is biological just like many women are attracted to let's say 6'2 200 lbs broad shouldered gentlemen . Wide hips and large chests indicate fertility for giving birth and feeding many children. On strong or healthy looking men it indicates a knack for survival and ability to gather resources. 

I dunno , African-Americans just like that ghetto booty on girls no matter what the race  Sorry if anyone is offended by the way.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Fat = excess body weight.

Curves = a line or outline that gradually deviates from being straight for some or all of its length.

:tongue:


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Bugs said:


> I'm talking about not just HS , but after. College and the Navy too ! At the time guys just thought larger women were easier but some of them really got it right back in the face when they been rejected . I've railways liked chubby women as well as thin women. I wasn't ( am not) picky about body type so long as I found it attractive. For me its more about how intelligent , charismatic , and just downright stimulating a girl is for my oversaturated mind . In short , somebody not boring  . I have a thing for quirkiness too. And yes , attraction to curves is biological just like many women are attracted to let's say 6'2 200 lbs broad shouldered gentlemen . Wide hips and large chests indicate fertility for giving birth and feeding many children. On strong or healthy looking men it indicates a knack for survival and ability to gather resources.
> 
> I dunno , African-Americans just like that ghetto booty on girls no matter what the race  Sorry if anyone is offended by the way.


That's stupid. One of my friends has always been large,was a virgin until she was 20 or 21 and is now happily married. 

Whatever. I have seen men surrounding a slender woman like hounds from hell, and I get groped unpleasantly at the library. Different types of women make different types of men horny. There's not a formula either for which women will be more open to sex.

I have seen it said though that people of large appetite usually extends it to both food and sex. 

I have no idea why you think all African Americans are ghetto, but combined with the friends you are naming, im starting to wonder if you.live in a small Southern town.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

fourtines said:


> That's stupid. One of my friends has always been large,was a virgin until she was 20 or 21 and is now happily married.
> 
> Whatever. I have seen men surrounding a slender woman like hounds from hell, and I get groped unpleasantly at the library. Different types of women make different types of men horny. There's not a formula either for which women will be more open to sex.
> 
> ...


It is stupid. I was just explaining to you the biases I have encountered. You get groped at the library? Does this bother you? Have you told anyone about harassment at the library or do you still go? I didn't say that curvy or larger women would be more open to sex rather that was a subjective opinion of the males I knew growing up. What turns men on doesn't exactly always figure into whether they think they can get laid or not. A guy could go for the really hot thin girl like yourself who gets a lot of attention anyway or he could go for the not so thin girl and some men will subjectively determine that chances of get laid are better. ( if he's looking for sex only)

I don't know why you put words in my mouth? I didn't say all African Americans were ghetto. I was agreeing with you that there is a general preference of African American males ( at least it seems this way) for large bootied women ( also jokingly known as 'ghetto booty') Why so serious?


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

^ Also I don't live in a small southern town. I am not even from the South but nice way to generalize


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Bugs said:


> It is stupid. I was just explaining to you the biases I have encountered. You get groped at the library? Does this bother you? Have you told anyone about harassment at the library or do you still go? I didn't say that curvy or larger women would be more open to sex rather that was a subjective opinion of the males I knew growing up. What turns men on doesn't exactly always figure into whether they think they can get laid or not. A guy could go for the really hot thin girl like yourself who gets a lot of attention anyway or he could go for the not so thin girl and some men will subjectively determine that chances of get laid are better. ( if he's looking for sex only)
> 
> I don't know why you put words in my mouth? I didn't say all African Americans were ghetto. I was agreeing with you that there is a general preference of African American males ( at least it seems this way) for large bootied women ( also jokingly known as 'ghetto booty') Why so serious?


Im not thin. I am hot though. 

I don't even know what you mean by larger woman, like someone my size, or someone my friends size, or a truly obese woman. But thanks for clarifying that you don't share the opinion. It just bothers me, like do these guys think thicker women are desperate? - What is the reasoning? Like sure yeah let me find a fat girl with low self-esteem so I can use her and dump her? Jesus wept.

I am from a small Southern town originally. That's why I said that.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

fourtines said:


> Im not thin. I am hot though.
> 
> I don't even know what you mean by larger woman, like someone my size, or someone my friends size, or a truly obese woman. But thanks for clarifying that you don't share the opinion. It just bothers me, like do these guys think thicker women are desperate? - What is the reasoning? Like sure yeah let me find a fat girl with low self-esteem so I can use her and dump her? Jesus wept.
> 
> I am from a small Southern town originally. That's why I said that.


Personally I think not so thin women are usually more hot and I've always thought that . Larger women as in not morbidly obese but maybe some that would be uncomfortable about their weight to a degree. The guys I knew back then would take advantage of these women and then give them a very limited relationship. You have to keep in mind these were mostly military guys looking for women with low self esteem. It was security so when guys went on deployment these girls seemed less likely to hook up with other dudes. ( while of course they hooked up with other chicks in port visits) It's not because they weren't attractive but rather because they fall head over heals for a physically attractive guy that takes so much interest in them. It was disgusting and part of the reason I left the service , I couldn't stand that persona and I didn't want to be classified as one of 'those guys' plus I just hate the rigidness . 

I'm originally a California boy. Los Angeles area


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Bugs said:


> Personally I think not so thin women are usually more hot and I've always thought that . Larger women as in not morbidly obese but maybe some that would be uncomfortable about their weight to a degree. The guys I knew back then would take advantage of these women and then give them a very limited relationship. You have to keep in mind these were mostly military guys looking for women with low self esteem. It was security so when guys went on deployment these girls seemed less likely to hook up with other dudes. ( while of course they hooked up with other chicks in port visits) It's not because they weren't attractive but rather because they fall head over heals for a physically attractive guy that takes so much interest in them. It was disgusting and part of the reason I left the service , I couldn't stand that persona and I didn't want to be classified as one of 'those guys' plus I just hate the rigidness .
> 
> I'm originally a California boy. Los Angeles area


Wow like the man who wants his wife to gain weight so she won't cheat on him. It seems odd though like...really were these guys really that physically attractive themselves? - on what grounds could they simultaneously find these women hot enough to fuck repeatedly (you said security, not one night stand...) yet still deemed them not attractive enough for other men? My mind is blown. Were these guys just lying about what makes their dick hard?

Yeah there's other theories though that women who try too hard to conform to thin, high maintenance actually have low self-esteem, which is why they try so hard to conform. A man could abuse a woman like that, using her own voice against her that she's not perfect enough, to control her.

Meanwhile, chubby lady might have great self worth and not have these neurosis, so just falls to a slightly above average weight out of genuinely not giving a shit.

I live in Los Angeles now, for four years.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

fourtines said:


> Wow like the man who wants his wife to gain weight so she won't cheat on him. It seems odd though like...really were these guys really that physically attractive themselves? - on what grounds could they simultaneously find these women hot enough to fuck repeatedly (you said security, not one night stand...) yet still deemed them not attractive enough for other men? My mind is blown. Were these guys just lying about what makes their dick hard?
> 
> Yeah there's other theories though that women who try too hard to conform to thin, high maintenance actually have low self-esteem, which is why they try so hard to conform. A man could abuse a woman like that, using her own voice against her that she's not perfect enough, to control her.
> 
> ...


One thing you'll find is that the military is full of mental cases. The guys were in shape but I don't know if they were all that. I think it was a confidence issue. They wanted a woman they can 'count on' to not be lonely but treat them like play things when they were around. I don't know , there was this thinking that chubbier girls are more loyal or some shit. I think the guys were taking advantage of low self esteem for sure. Well , welcome to California then  I'm from San Pedro if you know where that is. 110 South all the way to the end.


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## FePa (Feb 13, 2014)

Bugs said:


> Personally I think not so thin women are usually more hot and I've always thought that . Larger women as in not morbidly obese but maybe some that would be uncomfortable about their weight to a degree. The guys I knew back then would take advantage of these women and then give them a very limited relationship. You have to keep in mind these were mostly military guys looking for women with low self esteem. It was security so when guys went on deployment these girls seemed less likely to hook up with other dudes. ( while of course they hooked up with other chicks in port visits) It's not because they weren't attractive but rather because they fall head over heals for a physically attractive guy that takes so much interest in them. It was disgusting and part of the reason I left the service , I couldn't stand that persona and I didn't want to be classified as one of 'those guys' plus I just hate the rigidness .
> 
> I'm originally a California boy. Los Angeles area





fourtines said:


> Wow like the man who wants his wife to gain weight so she won't cheat on him. It seems odd though like...really were these guys really that physically attractive themselves? - on what grounds could they simultaneously find these women hot enough to fuck repeatedly (you said security, not one night stand...) yet still deemed them not attractive enough for other men? My mind is blown. Were these guys just lying about what makes their dick hard?
> 
> Yeah there's other theories though that women who try too hard to conform to thin, high maintenance actually have low self-esteem, which is why they try so hard to conform. A man could abuse a woman like that, using her own voice against her that she's not perfect enough, to control her.
> 
> ...





Bugs said:


> One thing you'll find is that the military is full of mental cases. The guys were in shape but I don't know if they were all that. I think it was a confidence issue. They wanted a woman they can 'count on' to not be lonely but treat them like play things when they were around. I don't know , there was this thinking that chubbier girls are more loyal or some shit. I think the guys were taking advantage of low self esteem for sure. Well , welcome to California then  I'm from San Pedro if you know where that is. 110 South all the way to the end.


GOSH !
:shocked:
I've dated some of those guys...

:bored:

Thanks I managed to break free in the end of each relationship after a while, and much sufferance and self loathing, having a Phoenix heart every time ...
Of course, every time the sleeping dragon woke up in the end of each case, the leftovers of a man were laid spread around

:angry:


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

FePa said:


> GOSH !
> :shocked:
> I've dated some of those guys...
> 
> ...


I think it's a bunch of crap. To me it seems like a bunch of average looking men who think they deserve supermodels making excuses to their buddies why their main squeeze is an average woman and not a supermodel.

If they can get a "hot girl" in every port, why not repeatedly get with a "hot girl" at home?

It's pretty obvious to me these guys are just insecure fucktards. No one in their right mind has sex repeatedly with someone who they aren't attracted to if they can be with others. 

To me I swear it sounds like lies, trying to look macho and impress their buddies with how they are holding out for Scarlett Johansson. It's nonsense. They're ashamed they get turned on by average women.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

@fourtines Now you understand , I've been around these people for 6 years of service + HS and have even been mislabeled as one


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

fourtines said:


> I think it's a bunch of crap. To me it seems like a bunch of average looking men who think they deserve supermodels making excuses to their buddies why their main squeeze is an average woman and not a supermodel.
> 
> If they can get a "hot girl" in every port, why not repeatedly get with a "hot girl" at home?
> 
> ...


I love you for this post. So much truth here.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Im not thin. I am hot though.
> 
> I don't even know what you mean by larger woman, like someone my size, or someone my friends size, or a truly obese woman. But thanks for clarifying that you don't share the opinion. It just bothers me, like do these guys think thicker women are desperate? - What is the reasoning? Like sure yeah let me find a fat girl with low self-esteem so I can use her and dump her? Jesus wept.
> 
> I am from a small Southern town originally. That's why I said that.


Ya know the thing is people aren't pieces of paper. We're three dimensional. I think the biggest dilemma in my brain (like a squirrel in the middle of the road) is if I communicate my reservations and the why's, it's assumed I have low self esteem to a degree way steeper than my actual struggle. In other words, yeah, I am super hard on myself, but let's not carried away type of attitude. So then what? Do I lay it out there and give my reasons and say please don't do this or that. And then I'm automatically lumped into a box as the low self esteem thick girl - mind you, thick is the most nauseating term, ever. It isn't doing me any favors to feel wanted.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

NK said:


> Ya know the thing is people aren't pieces of paper. We're three dimensional. I think the biggest dilemma in my brain (like a squirrel in the middle of the road) is if I communicate my reservations and the why's, it's assumed I have low self esteem to a degree way steeper than my actual struggle. In other words, yeah, I am super hard on myself, but let's not carried away type of attitude. So then what? Do I lay it out there and give my reasons and say please don't do this or that. And then I'm automatically lumped into a box as the low self esteem thick girl - mind you, thick is the most nauseating term, ever. It isn't doing me any favors to feel wanted.


I don't mind the word thick, I find words like chubby worse, because there's something sexualized about the word thick, it implies a preference for from what I have noticed, medium sized rather than very small or very large women. Thick isn't thin, but it's usually not obese. I don't think thick or curvy mean fat.

There are tons of men who like that body size. But let's get real, most people aren't attracted to actual obesity or someone who.never moves from the couch. I am very reasonable about partners and their flaws, but I am just not attracted to obese men who can't stride across the parking lot with me. It's unreasonable when some men expect all women to be a size 4, but it's not unreasonable to ask their partners to exercise or not be medically obese.

Some would disagree, they say appearance shouldn't matter. Those people are rare, they're demisexual and asexual.

Everyone has some esteem issues, it's human. That's why some people have sex and not relationships, because they want to deny their own insecurities and be insensitive to the insecurity of their partners, so that they can convince themselves life is an Abercrombie commercial. There was a song that was popular when I was about eighteen or twenty that I think sums up a lot of Gen Y problems "I want to live in a magazine, I want to go in cheap and come out clean." It's all part of our cultural epidemic of narcissism and I am not completely untouched by it myself.

Plenty of men like medium sized women. Gravitate towards them instead of the ones who say you are not thin enough. I feel better with a man who says I am hot or look good or masturbates to pictures of me over one who says, gosh you have such a pretty face and xyz good bodily feature, if you would just do HIIT you would lose some of that body fat.

Low self esteem keeps us with the.man who treated us like we are not good enough, whether we are a size zero or a size twelve. Thin women sometimes get berated for having small breasts or needing meat on their bones.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

fourtines said:


> I don't mind the word thick, I find words like chubby worse, because there's something sexualized about the word thick, it implies a preference for from what I have noticed, medium sized rather than very small or very large women. Thick isn't thin, but it's usually not obese. I don't think thick or curvy mean fat.
> 
> There are tons of men who like that body size. But let's get real, most people aren't attracted to actual obesity or someone who.never moves from the couch. I am very reasonable about partners and their flaws, but I am just not attracted to obese men who can't stride across the parking lot with me. It's unreasonable when some men expect all women to be a size 4, but it's not unreasonable to ask their partners to exercise or not be medically obese.
> 
> ...


I prefer average men anyways too but. So like I mentioned earlier, I have my reasons right and they're probably stupid but I can't help I'm human. And you're right, I think the problem is exactly like you said, no one wants to admit they're insecure. And that in and of itself makes me MORE insecure. Because then I feel like I have to be afraid to be honest. As if there is consequences and that it's not okay. It's this phenomenon where buzz words like "projection" and "insecurities" and "issues" are tossed about like a hot potatoe. We all want to know of these things but no one wants to be IN the actual arena wresting these things. Which to me makes me irritated because I'm wired to combat (I'm afraid of feeling fear so my default is to roll up my sleeves and go at it) only that the consensus is that this is not okay. It's "unattractive" it's a "turn off" and then I'm "damaged" bla bla bla. 

I try to relax and think okay, I don't need to be happy to be in a relationship because I'm quite happy without. I'll do this casual thing. But when I get to it, I'll be a tweak. If I get couragous and say "hey, this happened and that so I'm like this and that = tweak" then the result is either 1) irritation and I'm dropped. 2) disregarded and they're slobbering over getting with it regardless how I feel. 3) they're sweet, say something lovely and walk away because they're turned off. I've been flat out rejected with two people sexually yet both were soooo "in love" with me. I don't get it. I've had people asure me my rack is fine and my accessories along with it are proportional and fine and I'm just a freak. And then ... They're all eager and I feel like my feelings are minimized and they're in a big fat hurry to spooge. The whole thing makes me angry. Like 0-10 and done? Come on people!! LOL! So frustrating!(ed) lol! 

I just need to wait for another connection / relationship I guess. But I REALLY wouldn't mind a casual thing. I have so many other priorities going .. But men are seriously just pigs. I know I know. I'm generalizing and offending all the "good guys" out there with capes on. But, men are gross when they're pigs and then my libido drops 6 feet under. The fuck I want some nasty dude breathing down my neck who doesn't care about me. Uh. :bored: And then I do that too hard on myself thing. Blaming myself and I think maybe if I knew how to communicate better etc. Or if I could feel more confident etc. And now I'm circling back to the point where it's "taboo" for me to even be honest about my experiences and my insecurities which mind you, might get better if I could have some good experiences already! Argh!!!!


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## Emerald Legend (Jul 13, 2010)

1. Shapely with aesthetic quality to bends/corner ----> curvy
2. Shape/frame distorted by fat but still somewhat pleasing to the eye ----> curvy
3. There's no shape distinct to body-part- due to body fat ----> fat. 

Most people probably don't go beyond #1, but I absolutely don't mind calling #2 curvy.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

That's how I define "curves."


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## purposive (Jun 4, 2013)

Curvy refers to a woman that has a small waist in proportion to her hips. Fat women IMO distort the meaning of curvy so much that true curvaceous women are afraid to use the word curvy to describe themselves. 

If you are overweight it is unlikely that you have a small waist, so it would be rather difficult to qualify as being curvy.
Having rolls and etc. Does not make you curvy. That is my opinion on the matter.


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## renna (Jan 28, 2011)

NK said:


> I'm 5'1". I should be a size 2. That would be skinny for a short person. I don't care anymore. I'm becoming asexual.


I'm 5'1 and a solid 140lbs. I flux between 135 and 145 on avg every year. If I get below 130, I look deathly skinny sick. Why you ask?! Because my body shape is naturally an hour glass with curves. EVERY BODY is different, but some curves are just what they are... Curves. The curve at your waist, or the pear shape your hips and thighs make, or when you're laying on your side and the curve from your waist to your legs, or when you're in doggy position and the natural curve of a bell from your butt to your waist. Size 8 is my biggest, size 4 is my smallest - but the curves remain for the most part. 

I'm sure you have an adorable body. You just don't think that way because you LIVE in your skin and you don't see angles from his POV. You can't see yourself from behind! When your bending over in the kitchen to grab something under the sink. Or when you're laying on your side, away from him and he can gaze over the lines that make up your profile. He may even adore the delicate curves of your neck! Every man is different @NK but if he is your style of man, a connection through mental stimulation will get you both worked up for when it's time to shed the clothes. And he will think you're THAT much more amazing when he sees all of you, loving what he sees from head to toe.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

renna said:


> I'm 5'1 and a solid 140lbs. I flux between 135 and 145 on avg every year. If I get below 130, I look deathly skinny sick. Why you ask?! Because my body shape is naturally an hour glass with curves. EVERY BODY is different, but some curves are just what they are... Curves. The curve at your waist, or the pear shape your hips and thighs make, or when you're laying on your side and the curve from your waist to your legs, or when you're in doggy position and the natural curve of a bell from your butt to your waist. Size 8 is my biggest, size 4 is my smallest - but the curves remain for the most part.
> 
> I'm sure you have an adorable body. You just don't think that way because you LIVE in your skin and you don't see angles from his POV. You can't see yourself from behind! When your bending over in the kitchen to grab something under the sink. Or when you're laying on your side, away from him and he can gaze over the lines that make up your profile. He may even adore the delicate curves of your neck! Every man is different @_NK_ but if he is your style of man, a connection through mental stimulation will get you both worked up for when it's time to shed the clothes. And he will think you're THAT much more amazing when he sees all of you, loving what he sees from head to toe.


 yeah we actually are similar with that but, as I mention earlier in the thread, I've a bad history with men who must have low self esteem because instead of teasing me which makes me feel loved, I've had my insecurities targeted and exploited a few times. It's seriously has done me NO.FAVORS. ... I'm working on it. I feel better after reading a book that hit the nail on the head. There was actually an entire chapter about the tactics used and it was essentially this issue in a nutshell. I'm not the only female who has had a shit face decide to tear my self confidence so they feel more secure I won't leave. But then they lose attraction as my confidence diminishes. What kind of sick paradoxical crap is that! It's like. One thing after another and while I know my way of being is excruciating to those who are good to me, it serves me well navigating through the mess in a deep way so that when all is said and done, I'm Ni Jedi 

i sincerely appreciate your input. You are right!! I shouldn't worry about it AT.ALL.!! I range in size like you about same and I suppose I just have to NOT take outside facts (such as what sells so to speak), and not take that as evidence to support bad experiences. See, that's the problem. When people emotionally manipulate others who "think" too much, the thinker digs a deeper grave with their own neurosis until they realize .... Awwwww fuck! I've been duped! This is stupid!!


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## badwolf (Jun 17, 2012)

As I've said before, literally every human is different. Consequently, every woman is different. I cannot sit here and say that a certain dress size or brassiere size is the equivalent of fat or think or any other of these seemingly arbitrary adjectives. In fact, how aesthetically pleasing I find a woman is 100% subjective and non-quantifiable. 

For example, after Yahoo image searching "curvy woman," I found many results:

This woman's body I found pleasing. But this woman's body, while similar, was not so pleasing to me. 

And again, this woman's body appeals to me, while this woman's body does not. 

The human mind is much too complex for such a categorical definition of attraction. The same can be said for any other part of aspect of appeal like hair color, height, race, etc.


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## Top chisel (Sep 25, 2013)

A function, or section thereof, with a continuously changing slope.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Top chisel said:


> A function, or section thereof, with a continuously changing slope.


:tongue:


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

Lady Rainicorn said:


> :tongue:


I was thinking about your body image.. You women tend to go through and my advice is weight lifting, yoga, pilates and trying pole dance. I know you belly dance which is pretty fun- I do too! but I think pole has a special ability to help a woman own her sexuality and every curve on her body. Its like a sexy ballet. I have been doing it since high school and teaching it for fun on the side. 

Seriously check youtube for some floorwork sometime or try an S factor video. 

Burlesque is wild too but pole builds muscle like crazy.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

_Curvy _no longer means anything due to overuse and endless definitions.


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## Sunn (Mar 12, 2014)

Fertile figures = curvy figures.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

ItsSunnyOutHere said:


> Fertile figures = curvy figures.


What is a fertile figure? Never heard of that term. When will people stop thinking big tits/huge hips = only figures that can mean fertility. There's not even solid proof of that. 

Women with that body type can be infertile and women who are 'beanpoles' can go on to have many children.


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## Sunn (Mar 12, 2014)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> What is a fertile figure? Never heard of that term. When will people stop thinking big tits/huge hips = only figures that can mean fertility. There's not even solid proof of that.
> 
> Women with that body type can be infertile and women who are 'beanpoles' can go on to have many children.


Wide hips, Height (in some cases when it's not intimidating.), slightly thicker thighs and larger then average breast. They're usually associated with fertility as in eye appeal' I can get a study on it if you'd like but it's mostly just face value. Not ovaries and such.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

ItsSunnyOutHere said:


> Wide hips, Height (in some cases when it's not intimidating.), slightly thicker thighs and larger then average breast. They're usually associated with fertility as in eye appeal' I can get a study on it if you'd like but it's mostly just face value. Not ovaries and such.


I'd like to see that. I also don't like being told I'm less likely to have healthy children because I'm not taller than average or have less than average breasts. All kinds of women get pregnant. 

Yeah men's choices will want to be with a certain body type but ultimately they won't be able to choose.


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## Sunn (Mar 12, 2014)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> I'd like to see that. *I also don't like being told I'm less likely to have healthy children because I'm not taller than average or have less than average breasts*. All kinds of women get pregnant.
> 
> Yeah men's choices will want to be with a certain body type but ultimately they won't be able to choose.


Nooooooo' I didnt mean that.

Here

It's all about appearance, it's not about ovaries and such like I said before. I didnt mean to offend you in any way haha.

[Edit] There is statistical evidence though that implies body shape does come into play with fertility when done in Number studies.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

There are many different size & shape curves but some of my favorites are those healthy sexalicious curves that were earned by building them one repetition at a time. 


https://adriancrowe.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/perfection2.jpg?w=640
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b7/78/4a/b7784aa66c46b638076f4d8657656d1f.jpg
http://www.femalefitnessmotivation.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Female-Fitness-Motivation115.jpg
http://www.femalefitnessmotivation.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Female-Fitness-Motivation113.jpg
http://www.fitnessgurls.com/new/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/roxy-winstanley/image-1.jpeg
http://www.thinspiration.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/538532067913116901.jpg


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> https://adriancrowe.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/perfection2.jpg?w=640
> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b7/78/4a/b7784aa66c46b638076f4d8657656d1f.jpg
> http://www.femalefitnessmotivation.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Female-Fitness-Motivation115.jpg
> http://www.femalefitnessmotivation.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Female-Fitness-Motivation113.jpg
> ...


Thinspiration website links aren't a very good idea, just sayin'.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/74/00/aa/7400aa34dc2df0e00b3aff138a882f44.jpg
https://adriancrowe.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/perfection2.jpg?w=640
http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/da-mo-1024.jpg?w=500&h=667
http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/da-mo-1625.jpg?w=500&h=654
http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/da-mo-622.jpg?w=500&h=374
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/bd/0f/62/bd0f62827236337c3f347aa84aa12ecd.jpg


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

isingthebodyelectric said:


> Thinspiration website links aren't a very good idea, just sayin'.


Everybody has a mind of their own, their mind can overcome the bodies resistance to improving health & fitness.
If I can inspire one individual here to seriously contemplate & discover the ease of living a healthy lifestyle, then it's worth wading through your poor advice.
I don't know why you'd offer words of discouragement except that you may be an example of misery loves company.

I've nothing against manhaters, I didn't stop by to incite you to anger & hope you enjoy your weekend. Vaya Con Dios


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

stargazing grasshopper said:


> Everybody has a mind of their own, their mind can overcome the bodies resistance to improving health & fitness.
> If I can inspire one individual here to seriously contemplate & discover the ease of living a healthy lifestyle, then it's worth wading through your poor advice.
> I don't know why you'd offer words of discouragement except that you may be an example of misery loves company.
> 
> I've nothing against manhaters, I didn't stop by to incite you to anger & hope you enjoy your weekend. Vaya Con Dios


I didn't say anything hateful in my post tho.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Curvy to me means the woman is acknowledging a lit more weight than a starved model has and that's more a sign of a healthy self-image than not to me. Curvy also means feminine in general to me so - more plus!

I think everyone, men and women, make way too much of the weight issue from several perspectives. The first and most egregious viewpoint is the desire side. The one we are all familiar with, the visual candy issue. Everyone has body issues, even and perhaps especially starved models. So that means that if a person is lucky or driven enough to go through a stage of life where they have those right proportions, or let's say proportions that are stereotypically pleasing, they know their body can get there and so do most people in their lives. But time is cruel in many ways to both sexes. A modern sedentary lifestyle is even more cruel. A modern diet in most cases, meat laden, is even more cruel. All these cruelties are tied into that first viewpoint, the observer from without.

The second viewpoint is another issue for people with body challenges (aka everyone). That is the viewpoint of a lover or friend. Just like viewpoint #1, this one is problematic and extremely over emotionalized. I categorically disagree with many folks in this post. Positivity is a drug and a lie. Honesty is the best policy. Tact and proper concern for a lover or friend can indeed assist you in delivering the truth to someone you care about. But society's and in particular women's completely overbalanced focus on body issues coupled with feminism's (see MBTI thread on why folks hate feminism) apologetic feel-good approach to body issues is not helping anyone. The truth, lovingly handled, is healthy and the best policy. Each person's getting past these culture induced desires and guilts and achieving a healthy self-image regardless of possessing body issues (like we all do) is NOT POSSIBLE without facing it. It is a loving friend or lover that tactfully assists their partner in realizing, admitting, and facing their body issues. I find a lot of men and women unable to discuss this issue. That is a red flag for me. Their "precious" area of weakness is off limits, hidden in the dark, taboo. Any attempt to discuss it releases a hurricane of self-righteous defensiveness. <Gollum throat noise inserted here>. That dynamic is debilitative. You should strive to be vulnerable to the core to your lover and vice-versa. 

The third perspective is the hideous type 3 enneagram culture that constantly provokes these issues by comparison in the win or lose cultural model. Winner take all. Flash over substance. Once time and a healthy self image take over that pinpoint cross section in time of the perfect woman's body that should only exist even for her for the briefest moment in time fades and she is discarded. And everyone else is supposed to aim at this penultimate iconic image? Yeah I am not Hercules (or even Wolverine) and it causes me 3 seconds of worry every day and then I laugh at it. I also don't make much money and I worry if I am hung enough but when friends and lovers bring that up I don't react with fear and loathing. I can be wounded and recover, that is ok. I am not an image. I can take a hit or two. An image cant. An image is not there. If you waste time aiming at an image you are living in fantasyland. Real people know this. They will forgive you for not attaining an image except briefly. The skateboarder goes up and does a few fancy flips and then you know what? They come down. Expected. Healthy. Trying to go up again is great also. But images can also easily try. I know this from online video games. My avatar leaps in all the time and never bumps his knee. He never has a cold. And most strange of all he never feels pain, even though a red bar moves a little in a bad direction. The image you can do anything you imagine. But it isn't real. It cannot take even a single real hit. I proved this and bashed in a computer screen and my image was utterly destroyed. You can take a hit psychologically and physically (and no I am no talking about violence here, really). The dystopian greed/competition culture has taken its toll on all of us, our self images have suffered, but if we take stock in our non-image selves we can easily recover if we but heed the advice of friends, lovers, and our own inner voice of wisdom.


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jun 6, 2014)

but on a more serious note, I think the difference is activity level. If you are inactive curves become fatty and less attractive whereas even with moderate activity level the same body type can look more toned and tight and attractive.


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