# What's my type?



## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Hi, I'm Elena and I'd like your help to determine what exactly my type is.

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
I guess it's not really about a specific aspect of my personality more than it is me not knowing how to properly identify different functions. I'm almost certain that I'm a dominant Introvert, but I don't know whether my second function is Fe or Ne. Also, the more I read about different descriptions of functions and types, I can't help but reconsider how accurate my typing of myself was. 

2) What do you yearn for in life? Why? 
i would answer this question differently depending on what's going on in my life.. Sometimes I feel like I'm just looking to get by, and other times I'm excited by the possibility of figuring life out. I'm looking to feel accepted. I want to surround myself with people who I care for, people who I can talk and genuinely connect to, and both people who I feel comfortable around and those who can challenge me. I don't particularly want to be successful, although I would like to have some kind of occupation in my future that involves an ongoing process of learning and mental stimulation. I like to constantly be figuring things out and coming to realizations. I want to be passionate about something but I also worry about finding a 'path' or whatever to lead my passion. It would be nice to actually come to some sort of conclusion as to what I want in the future. 


3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way. 
I feel my best when I can relate to other people on a deeper level. This isn't very specific, but I feel good when I don't take for granted being around people I care for. Also, when I'm prepared or confident enough to give my opinion about something. I guess this is because often I feel like i restrain presenting a lot of myself to others, which then leads me to not be able to connect to the right people, or find the right opportunities. 
Little things make me feel really good about myself.. Independence, being able to withdraw. I also really love explaining or teaching things to people that i'm really knowledgable of/interested in!

4) What makes you feel inferior? 
Not being able to help the people I love. Or feeling like I'm unloved in general. When I'm not prepared enough or unexperienced with a situation that i'm forced into (especially if It involved other people who are experienced, then I feel really inadequate). When people around me seem so sure of their lives and futures, while I'm not even close to figuring mine out. Also, social anxiety. It's funny how easier it is to answer this question than the above one, and I think it's because I can be caught off guard and feel really inferior by so many seemingly minor things that people do or say.

5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.) 
I guess if i'm making larger scale decisions that are in relation to other people, some questions I tend to ask myself are: How does my perspective effect the decision I'm making and how can i make it as fair as possible? Who will this benefit and who will this possibly hurt? What is the long term result of this and how will that continue to effect people/other decisions made in the future? Do i believe I have enough information on this situation/other opinions of it to adequately make a decision? How serious is it? 
For more personal ones i guess i'll focus more on how comfortable I feel about either option, and especially how it will unfold in the future. I'll also ask myself whether my decision has a negative effect on anybody, and whether I care enough for to change it based on that. If it's difficult, I find myself trying to compromise it rather than force it into one side. 
But i also have a tendency to go through this long process of decision making and back out or decide to go for it last minute or on a whim. 

6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome? 
Collect all the information and organize efficiently it so that when it all finally needs to come together it's all easily accessible and all the hard work is already done. I should absolutely have control (or a vision) of the outcome, at least by the time I'm done organizing/figuring it out. 

7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? 
This passing Christmas I met up with a lot of my old friends back home, and we got to catch up. We mostly talked a lot and told stories from while we haven't seen each other. I guess my memory of it is mostly how it made me feel. Also, impressions that i got from my friends. Rather than a specific story my friend told me, i'll remember '___ was really funny that night'. I hadn't seen a lot of them in a while either, so I remember thinking how much some of my friends remind me of our relationship when I was younger, while others seemed so different and i was trying to figure out how they've changed.

8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc) 
Hands on is great. I’d prefer someone to show me how it’s done ‘properly’ in person, and when i’ve got the hang of that I like to figure out the more efficient way to personalize it to my own needs. I love theories as well, and i think i learn them best when someone can explain it to me personally as well, and then have some time to bounce any questions or ideas back and forth with them.

9) How organized do you to think of yourself as? 
More organized that i come off. I mean, most of my personal belonging aren’t arranged in any particularly tidy way, but I can usually find where i’ve left something. I’m more organized at work than at home. Also, i think i prefer to be more mentally organized than physically. 

10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it? 
Who’s idea is it, perspective and context of where it came from, how it effects different people, what is the implication of it, how applicable is it to the world (if it’s even meant to be).. I guess i try to find why it exists and to how it is seen by different people. I like to analyze ideas. 

11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself? 
Both? I don’t think i act myself as much as i’d like to, because ‘myself’ doesn’t really seem to fit in around different people, so it often gets compromised. Which can be frustrating. Also, I’m usually willing to change what i believe.
But definitely the first one. 

12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions? 
Thinks before speaking. When I try to speak before thinking, my words end up running over and contradicting each other and it pretty much sounds like verbalized, rambling thoughts. Definitely one on one. 

13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words? 
Know where I am before leaping. 
Do you mean whether the actions or words of other people speak to me more? It would depend on the person. Some people’s actions are more meaningful and others words are more meaningful. Admittedly i think i’m drawn to words more.

14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do? 
Is doing both an option? If not, it depends on if i’ve been out recently, my mood at the time, how much i want to see my friends or how much they actually want to see me. Ultimately a show can be rewatched at any time, it just comes down to whether i feel like going out. 

15) How do you act when you're stressed out? 
Grumpy and distant with people. Reclusive. If you push me i’ll snap ( i can usually control this). Most of the time I sit with it until reach a mental breaking point and it all comes out in a panicked frenzy. I tend to feel a lot better after that. 

16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people? 
A few traits: self-recognizingly ignorant about something and PROUD of it, trying to apply logic without examining perspective, hypocritical, trying to sound smarter than you are, assuming, overly unsympathetic, when someone just tells you something because they want you to agree with them ... there are LOTS. I have a few more in mind but i can usually counter my feelings of dislike for certain people/personalities with reasons why they might be that way.. 

17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people? 
I love, love, love personal stories. Also, I really love hypothesizing things with people. For example, similar interests in TV shows and talking about characters, what’s going to happen next, what do you think this means, etc. If someone can talk to me about any interest they have, and i can see they’re avid and excited about it, i’ll most likely enjoy it. 

18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life 
I don’t know, I have a really bad memory when it comes to small specific things i need to remember... doing the laundry, buying groceries.. stuff like that. I put a lot of emphasis on following a schedule and finishing things on time, but when it comes down to it i end up waving off a lot of my responsibilities because ‘i don’t feel like it’. I tend to not pay attention to positive aspects of myself as well.. 

19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ? 
I don’t have very many good friends. I think they find me inconsistent (i have a habit of canceling plans last minute and such). I’ve been told i seem mature, creative, awkward. Most of them seem to think i have a good sense of humor? I also get a lot of people telling me secrets or personal feelings, so i guess they find that i’m a good listener.
It’s not that they’re wrong about a lot of this stuff, it’s just that... i suppose i present different people with different sides of myself so that no one gets ‘the entire thing’. 
They would probably never call me ‘the life of the party’ or something. haha. Unless it’s like, a three person party. 

20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
Nothing. I’m probably with one of two of my closest friends and we’re outside walking around or something and just spend the whole day relaxing or talking.
Well, maybe not the whole day, but a long time. haha. 

This was longer than I expected it to be...
In case you're wondering, I've tested INFP, INFJ, ISFJ and I've heard ISFP. At the moment, I have an idea of what my type could be, but i'm definitely not opposed to reconsidering it!
Thanks!


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> Hi, I'm Elena and I'd like your help to determine what exactly my type is.
> 
> In case you're wondering, I've tested INFP, INFJ, ISFJ and I've heard ISFP. At the moment, I have an idea of what my type could be, but i'm definitely not opposed to reconsidering it!
> Thanks!



Elena,

I've read your answers thoroughly and I have just two questions to ask:

- _I also really love explaining or teaching things to people that i'm really knowledgable of/interested in!_
*1.* *How would you describe your presentation / interaction style?* Do you focus more on delivering your understandings instead of conversing and straying from the subject at times, being as formal, systematic and convincing as possible, putting things in a simple and warm way, so that _everyone _can understand, or better yet, be moved with belief in what you say...

or

...do prefer to do it in a more informal way, fondly using as outrageous, elaborate and figurative wording as possible so that it almost becomes an inside conversation with a select few people who share your ideals and are in the know about the subject at hand, switching between talking and listening like in a brainstorming session? 

*
2. What's the relationship between your current avatar and your temperament?*



I already have an idea formed about your most probable type, I just want to confirm it.


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

*1.* *How would you describe your presentation / interaction style?* 
I'm usually trying to find a balance between what I want to say and the best way to word or phrase that as to fit the other persons understanding. I can be really meticulous about which words i choose, especially if it's an important discussion as I dislike the thought of someone misinterpreting them and leaving the conversation like that.
I guess it depends on who i'm presenting/interacting with and how much positive feedback i get from them. If it's more a formal or impersonal interaction, then the first one. Though I'd personally prefer to do it more informally. I love when people can show interest in what i'm saying to them by asking questions and encouraging me to to go into more depth. I love brainstorming (or at least with the right people i do!). Also, it makes me feel like i'm learning or taking something away from the conversation, which is even better. 

*
2. What's the relationship between your current avatar and your temperament?*
My avatar is from a Kate Beaton comic i found funny. I have my moments of misanthropy but no i don't hate everyone haha.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Just after reading the first 5 or so of your questions responses, everything points INFJ INFJ INFJ !!  a little later i'll come back and be more explaining of why i see that....


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

Dreamer777 said:


> Just after reading the first 5 or so of your questions responses, everything points INFJ INFJ INFJ !!  a little later i'll come back and be more explaining of why i see that....


Really? I was leaning towards INFP. I'm interested in hearing your reasoning though  I probably won't be able to post mine till tomorrow.


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm leaning towards INFJ. I have a few reasons, but I'm not sure how convincing they might be.

INFJs are less organized than other J types, or they're at least more "loose" in certain cases. They are, however, very organized at work. 

INFJs also have a tendency to be social chameleons because of their very complex characters. When INFPs present a persona, it's usually the same one to different degrees. The way she describes her social interaction style represents some kind of crystal dimensionality. She gives the part of her that needs to meet the other persons need, but doesn't say much else. She's more prone to listening to other people's problems rather than expressing her own. I get the impression she prefers solving her own problems in her head instead of whining (no offense) about it like most INFPs do. INFPs, at least speaking for myself, require a lot more emotional support. INFJs are more steady in my experience, and they're usually sufficient at recognizing their own emotional needs just by thinking about them.

I think the tests were right. 

Another thing: you're very inconsistent with your friends. Sometimes you feel like hanging out with them, sometimes you don't. I believe the reason for this is INFJs exhaust themselves a lot listening and solving other people's problems. It's not that they don't enjoy doing this, it's just that it gets taxing after a while, and that's the role people come to expect out of them. They're usually not open about their own problems with other people, not as much as INFPs. I have a sister who's an INFJ, and she prefers handling her own emotional issues for herself--and she's very good at it.

I suppose I was just a bit too skeptical in your introduction. It looks to me like the tests were right. I'd go with INFJ.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> *1.* *How would you describe your presentation / interaction style?*
> I'm usually trying to find a balance between what I want to say and the best way to word or phrase that as to fit the other persons understanding. I can be really meticulous about which words i choose, especially if it's an important discussion as I dislike the thought of someone misinterpreting them and leaving the conversation like that.
> I guess it depends on who i'm presenting/interacting with and how much positive feedback i get from them. If it's more a formal or impersonal interaction, then the first one. Though I'd personally prefer to do it more informally. I love when people can show interest in what i'm saying to them by asking questions and encouraging me to to go into more depth. I love brainstorming (or at least with the right people i do!). Also, it makes me feel like i'm learning or taking something away from the conversation, which is even better.
> 
> ...




By these answers, the answer is quite obvious: *I-N-F-P *(not really *INFJ*)*. *Everyone feel free to disagree reasonably.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> Hi, I'm Elena and I'd like your help to determine what exactly my type is.
> 
> 1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
> I guess it's not really about a specific aspect of my personality more than it is me not knowing how to properly identify different functions. I'm almost certain that I'm a dominant Introvert, but I don't know whether my second function is Fe or Ne. Also, the more I read about different descriptions of functions and types, I can't help but reconsider how accurate my typing of myself was.
> ...


Be Back tomorrow... to be continued, and please INFJ's please jump in, this is how we learn more and more about how the cognitives work, the different personality types, is by debating....


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ludi said:


> By these answers, the answer is quite obvious: *I-N-F-P *(not really *INFJ*)*. *Everyone feel free to disagree reasonably.




Ludi, i disagree with you, everything is soooooooooooooooo INFJ!! INFJ's need those precise words to explain things clearly and always concerned about others understanding clearly what they are trying to tell them. And as for the avatar, when i first saw it, i said, INFJ all the Way!! They love Hero avatars, cause they are great Defenders, Protectors, Activists, see and i knew the i hate people part had to do with just some gripes about people who bring suffering to others, INFJ's are Defenders, they don't like when people cause others to suffer. And see she said she 'has her moments' that she don't hate everyone.  Ludi, you used to have INFJ as your type, what happened? I mean by your avatar which i mentioned to you before, your avatar seems INFJ to me, cause INFJ's do have a mischeivous side to them, and the saying "as mischeivous as a monkey" and love love love to think. See, the thing with INFJ's i find, is they overthink things to the point they refuse a conclusion to the "theory", what do you say on that Ludi??

INFP's like myself, we could not careless about waiting to respond and having the perfect word, we'll jump the gun and throw a response and oh well, if it didn't come out right, oh well too bad... like whatever! we are such strong internal feelers, we are not strong with Fe, we don't care if we don't get the point across properly as much as we care about how well we ourselves believe in and understand the point. We are not good explainers. We would like to, but it just doesn't go with our type, just not really capable...


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Dreamer777 said:


> Ludi, i disagree with you, everything is soooooooooooooooo INFJ!! INFJ's need those precise words to explain things clearly and always concerned about others understanding clearly what they are trying to tell them. And as for the avatar, when i first saw it, i said, INFJ all the Way!! They love Hero avatars, cause they are great Defenders, Protectors, Activists, see and i knew the i hate people part had to do with just some gripes about people who bring suffering to others, INFJ's are Defenders, they don't like when people cause others to suffer. And see she said she 'has her moments' that she don't hate everyone.  Ludi, you used to have INFJ as your type, what happened? I mean by your avatar which i mentioned to you before, your avatar seems INFJ to me, cause INFJ's do have a mischeivous side to them, and the saying "as mischeivous as a monkey" and love love love to think. See, the thing with INFJ's i find, is they overthink things to the point they refuse a conclusion to the "theory", what do you say on that Ludi??
> 
> INFP's like myself, we could not careless about waiting to respond and having the perfect word, we'll jump the gun and throw a response and oh well, if it didn't come out right, oh well too bad... like whatever! we are such strong internal feelers, we are not strong with Fe, we don't care if we don't get the point across properly as much as we care about how well we ourselves believe in and understand the point. We are not good explainers. We would like to, but it just doesn't go with our type, just not really capable...


Dreamer,

The INF types can be hard to distinguish. The INFJs may seem like INFPs because the introversion may take up the Fe, making it a 'false' Fi. The INFJs are too interested in making deep interpersonal connections as well as intrapersonal reflections. 

The reason I decided on INFP is her outward attitude : she likes an informal way of presenting, learning things in a very 'hands-on' and interactive manner, brainstorming and coming up with hypothesis with other people, all tendencies that reflect Perceiving (Ne). An INFJ, however similar to the INFP, work out their ideas very internally...and are very keen in making them as expansive and clear as possible to everyone else ; like the INTJs, they may take a little more time to change their minds on a particular matter.

I'm not completely ruling out INFJ. I say we let Elena have her say.


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

In trying to type I'm pretty sure I saw more instances of Fi, Ne, Si and inferior Te than what might be considered Ni, Fe, and inferior Se. I agree with @Ludi. I see a preference for Ne over Ni.

This site might be of some help
INFJ or INFP? a closer look


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ludi said:


> Dreamer,
> 
> The INF types can be hard to distinguish. The INFJs may seem like INFPs because the introversion may take up the Fe, making it a 'false' Fi. The INFJs are too interested in making deep interpersonal connections as well as intrapersonal reflections.
> 
> ...


Maybe it's easier for me who is an INFP to see that Elena is not an INFP cause i know how we INFP's are. Those complex thought patterns of Ni and Ti that INFJ's have we INFP's don't much have that, so it really stands out to us when we see those answers showing complex thought patterns, we are very poor with Ti, it is our devilish function, so we can see when someone else uses Ti that we don't use nor understand much of, no matter how much descriptions i read of Ti, i still can't really grasp it, it is so like "huh?" to me, just as to an INFJ, Si is their devilish function, and no matter how much descriptions they read that explains what Si is, INFJ's are like "huh?" to Si. 

So, let's ask Elena what she thinks of Si and Ti, that should settle it by far in my opinion, i don't think there would be a mistake there. If she understands and uses Ti more than Si, she is INFJ, if she understands and uses Si more than Ti, she's an INFP, but according to her responses, she shows strong INFJ, so i am guessing she's going to answer that she uses and understands Ti more than Si.

Elena, have a look at these 2 functions of Ti and Si, and let us know what you think?

Ti - INTROVERTED THINKING Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes
Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles.
Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed. 

Si - INTROVERTED SENSING Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes
Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data.
Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes.


Si - INTROVERTED SENSING
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/24032-intro-function-theory-more-detailed-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html
Si, or introverted Sensing, is dominant for ISxJ, secondary for ESxJ, tertiary for INxP and inferior for ENxP. It's related to Se in that it deals with sensory experience, but rather than constantly scan for everything about what's going on now, it relies on internalizing those experiences into an extremely detailed internal map of highly vivid *memories* of those past sensory experiences. This dependence on reliving past experience and using it as a guide for the present leads to an extremely good memory for detail, and a general attitude that going with what we know for sure from having experienced it before is usually best.

Si is the opposite of Ne because rather than relate new information to some larger external, constantly changing pattern, it tries to relate all new information to something it already knows, some sensory data that it's absorbed from its past experiences. This leads to the classic Ne vs. Si battle: Ne wants to try something new just for the sake of doing something different and finding something interesting; Si wants to stick to what we've done before because its vivid memories of direct experience allow us to relate the new information to that past information we've already absorbed.

It's a common misconception that Si users are traditionalists on principle. In my experience, many older Si users (xSxJ types have Si as dom/secondary) are traditionalists because the only source of information they had was their parents and the traditions they were raised with, but these days many younger SJs are much less traditionalist in nature because information is so much more freely available than it was just a few generations ago. Si is not into tradition just for the sake of tradition; it just likes to relate new information to something it already knows. Rules and traditions can be a convenient way to do this, but it's a mistake to believe that Si always leads to traditionalism for its own sake.

Si also does some really cool stuff like perfect pitch...I have one ISFJ friend (Si dominant) who can tap into his past sensations of what a particular note sounded like and use it to identify some note he hears now as a G#. That's amazing to me...as an Ne dom I only understand notes in terms of their relationship to other notes in a larger pattern; Josh just taps right into his detailed sensory memory and can identify the note by remembering what it sounded like before, on its own.

Si doms like to collect objects and facts that evoke pleasurable memories from the past. An Si who's into history will collect books, photos, stamps, etc...an Si who's into music will collect instruments, sheet music, photos of concerts, and so on. Many Si types love scrapbooking because looking back at those old photos evokes those powerful, highly detailed sensory experiences from the past.

On a more morbid note, Dexter (from the TV series "Dexter") is probably ISTJ. He collects blood slides because they evoke the detailed memories of his most enjoyable murder experiences from the past. =/

Ti - INTROVERTED THINKING
http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/24032-intro-function-theory-more-detailed-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html
Ti, or introverted Thinking, is dominant for IxTP, secondary for ExTP, tertiary for IxFJ and inferior for ExFJ.

It's an attitude that encourages subjective logical decision-making based on our personal and directly experiential ideas of what fits into an impersonal logic framework and what doesn't. When it comes to logic/impersonal ideas, Ti reasons, external consensus can go to hell because it might very well be wrong, no matter how many people believe it or how many experts claim to know the truth. Ti seeks truth for its own sake; it wants to understand the relationships that force frameworks of information to fit together into cohesive wholes. Ti is focused on the blueprint, the design, the idea--while Te is focused on the application of that idea into an objectively measurable process. Externally measurable application is not nearly as important to Ti as internal structural integrity and logical consistency with itself.

Ti appreciates structural symmetry, balance, and the beauty of symmetrical models that elegantly explain and organize real world phenomena (perceived by Ne or Se) into neatly arranged categories. Ti people are usually very good with pure logic in a vacuum, as Ti simply "knows" inherently what is logical and what is not, and will defend this sense of logic to the death just to prove a point. Te people, on the other hand, are more concerned with what tangible USE can come from an argument--which is often none. This is why INTPs will argue hypotheticals all day but INTJs will rarely bother trying to convince you. For the INTJ, Te simply doesn't see what useful goal would be served by trying to change your opinion.

Ti: What logical relationships necessitate this system working the way it does, and how can I make them make sense to me?

Te: What externally verifiable, quantifiable evidence can we show that this is logical, and what tangible goal can be served by spending our time on it?

Another good example is music theory...when I learned chord theory I naturally wanted to learn the rules of how chords fit together so that I'd understand the entire system holistically and could theoretically figure out any chord. Ti likes to figure out entire systems just for the sake of getting a glimpse of complete truth ("I want to play guitar, so I will learn the system of rules for how chords are built so I understand the whole thing at once"), whereas Te is much more goal-oriented and always wants to know how this system can be applied to something externally useful or used to accomplish our predetermined goals...so Te would be more inclined to first figure out what the goal is ("What do I plan to use my guitar playing for?") and then learn only what's necessary to complete that goal. ("I want to learn 'Freebird', so I will learn the chords and techniques necessary to play that song.")

Te takes a step by step, sequential and linear approach based on which steps are needed to complete its goals, while Ti tries to understand the entire system as one big unit simply because it's interesting and stimulating.

I borrowed the following baseball analogy from Lenore Thomson, because it works so well:

So let's say you're playing baseball. Te would tell us that if the runner doesn't reach the base before the ball gets there, he's out--period. That's objectively verifiable and can be shown logically, through external empirical evidence/consensus of experts that it is always the case, and it can be quantified and measured precisely without any personal emotions getting involved. (You can see why so many TJs are research scientists, especially NTJs.)

But Te won't do us any good when we're the runner trying to decide whether to steal 2nd base or wait for another hit. The situational logic in this case is subjective Ti because it requires us to reason out what makes sense at the moment according to our direct experience--the logic at play here cannot be precisely quantified in an externally verifiable manner.


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Thanks all of you 



Ludi said:


> The reason I decided on INFP is her outward attitude : she likes an informal way of presenting, learning things in a very 'hands-on' and interactive manner, brainstorming and coming up with hypothesis with other people, all tendencies that reflect Perceiving (Ne).


I often got stuck here when i was typing myself. The reason I think i'm leaning towards Fe is (and correct me if i'm wrong because i've seen some misunderstanding of Fe) because my fondness for interacting informally is generally based on the response i get from people. I enjoy when i get a positive and engaged response from someone. If i can't, or find that they're not really into it, the whole thing gets shot down.
I also love analyzing or brainstorming to myself if that's any consolation. And since i'm the only party involved in that, it's an ensured ongoing process haha.

I don't know how much i should be relying on this process to figure out myself but i actually have an entp and enfj very close to me in my family (and i'm almost certian of my typing of them). The way we interact with each other really supports the infj theory. If I do have Ni, it's an excellent correspondence to the Ne, in that we kind of help each other develop. When the enfj and i extravert, it's very similar.


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Dreamer777 said:


> Elena, have a look at these 2 functions of Ti and Si, and let us know what you think?


I'll take a look at these now, but just a question. How would my third function manifest? And how often? Would i use them to replace my dominant one, or work with it?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> I'll take a look at these now, but just a question. How would my third function manifest? And how often? Would i use them to replace my dominant one, or work with it?


Hey Elena  Your 3rd teritarry function of Ti you would use as a helper to your dominant function of Ni, yes you would use it quite a bit, but Ni is your dominant function and Fe in my opinion as the secondary would be used more than Ti, some say that they are both helpers to the dominant function, but in my own experience as an INFP, Fi Ne Si Te, i use Ne more than Si for sure (but then it could be my lack of understanding when i'm using Si with Ne...?). Also there is another way to look at it which i'm trying to learn more on this as well, is that Ne and Si work together, Se and Ni work together, Te and Fi work together, and Fe and Ti work together, that they cannot work one without the other, they are interconnected, so being that i'm just now trying to learn that aspect, i'm not really able to explain it... hopefully someone else could jump in and explain it, otherwise i think there's a link on here to it, i'll try to find it...

I'm actually still learning everything, and it's so much to learn i'm not sure if i could live long enough to master the knowledge of all this personality type stuff!


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Dreamer777 said:


> Ti - INTROVERTED THINKING Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes
> Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles.
> Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point*. *Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed.
> *I can see myself in a lot of the Ti. Finding the right words to express an idea concisely, organizing the idea into different parts, looking at the different sides of an issue. I don't know if it's about 'figuring out how something words' though as much as it often is just figuring out 'why' something is. Maybe what other forces have shaped it to be this way? I'm having trouble putting this into words, but i see the Ti in myself. *
> ...


/rambling. But i think i'm a Ti. I have a lot more to say about it either way haha. What do you think?


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Dreamer777 said:


> Also there is another way to look at it which i'm trying to learn more on this as well, is that Ne and Si work together, Se and Ni work together, Te and Fi work together, and Fe and Ti work together, that they cannot work one without the other, they are interconnected..


I like this way of looking at it. I always understood it as functions present themselves differently based on what they're paired with.. like Fi wouldn't be the same when paired up with Ne than it is with Se and this is why it's harder to pinpoint exact functions in people.


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)

I still have a strong hunch you're an INFJ. Here is my perspectives on your functions.

I believe you're dominant function is very focused on the future. You contemplate things with your imagination. This is why INFJs are prone to think about their problems by themselves instead of sharing them with other people.

Your auxiliary function describes how you assist other people, and in your case this is by paying close attention to the emotional atmosphere. This contrasts remarkably with the INFP's tendency to think about their own emotions and instead put themselves in people's shoes internally. I believe the difference is INFJs read emotional tendencies "out of the air", whereas the INFP process is more alchemical--they internalize a person with themselves in accordance with what they know about them. I believe INFJs can read things about other people before they even know about them, due to the nature of Fe.

If you suggest that you're Ti, then that also describes the INFJ function list. 



> I often got stuck here when i was typing myself. The reason I think i'm leaning towards Fe is (and correct me if i'm wrong because i've seen some misunderstanding of Fe) because my fondness for interacting informally is generally based on the response i get from people. I enjoy when i get a positive and engaged response from someone. If i can't, or find that they're not really into it, the whole thing gets shot down.
> I also love analyzing or brainstorming to myself if that's any consolation. And since i'm the only party involved in that, it's an ensured ongoing process haha.


This describes the nature of Fe. Like I said, INFPs have to make other people's emotions there own emotions, whereas INFJs extract emotions out of more visible sources.

I'm still very convinced that you're an INFJ, but if you want more proof than I don't blame you. I believe many people on this forum are more educated about this subject than I am, but I felt like my opinion was worth sharing anyway.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> /rambling. But i think i'm a Ti. I have a lot more to say about it either way haha. What do you think?


Asolutely Definately! lol


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Kytaari said:


> I'm still very convinced that you're an INFJ, but if you want more proof than I don't blame you. I believe many people on this forum are more educated about this subject than I am, but I felt like my opinion was worth sharing anyway.


No, i believe I'm an INFJ as well. Still, i am willing to hear out anyone who thinks otherwise.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> I like this way of looking at it. I always understood it as functions present themselves differently based on what they're paired with.. like Fi wouldn't be the same when paired up with Ne than it is with Se and this is why it's harder to pinpoint exact functions in people.


 I agree with the importance of how the functions are pair up, but i see where you can pinpoint functions in people however, but as i said, learning the pairing up is what i'm still learning to do, but i wouldn't want it to learn it to a point of being complicated and overwhelmed by it and then losing the simplicity of seeing each function in a person either, i would prefer to stick to the simplicity, but hopefully there would be a balance of keeping the knowledge and awareness of the simplicity to it at the same time as regarding some of the complexity. Remember INFJ's can get so complex they end up at no conclusive decision at all, where as INFP's will not want to lose that basic simple awareness. I think that is Ne verses Ni?

Ne – EXTRAVERTED INTUITING
Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts.
Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. *Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. *Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.

Ni - INTROVERTED INTUITION
Foreseeing implications, transformations, and likely effects.
Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden “Aha!” or “That’s it!” The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal. It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> No, i believe I'm an INFJ as well. Still, i am willing to hear out anyone who thinks otherwise.


I object. I still think that you are most like an INFP, for the very same arguments I have presented...but the decision, as always, is yours.


This is the extension of the INFP profile I had written. Do check it out. It will probably help to eliminate one of two possibilities.

_The INFP is perhaps the most sensitive of the 16 types. They can be quite upset by criticism, especially to the kind which seems to come out of everyone , that they are even sensitive to the criticisms not hurled at themselves! In this regard, they may aspire and appear to be the devil's advocate for the attacked and the bullied, in so far as to become activists for the causes of the less fortunate and less numerous or powerful, or even towards those everyone else deems as 'abnormal, freaks'. The quality they most often strive to grow within themselves is compassion ; thus they can easily relate to the mottos «Live and let live» and «nobody shoyld tell someone else how to feel about any one thing». Despite their innate sensitivity, they may very well hide their feelings, especially from more cynical and judgmental beings, but release them and show their true nature amongst the ones they consider pure-hearted. The insensitive and indifferent façade they put on is a form of defense, in order to protect them from the stagnation they would be under if they always sought approbation and verdicts concerning their ideals and dreams. That is why many INFPs may not relate well with most adults and their societies, but relate much better with children and animals. On the other hand, they sometimes hold on to their opinions and can be very wrong-headed when faced with inevitable and constant criticism. 

As the Fi is their dominant cognitive function, they tend to be very self-conscious of principles, values and objects they most esteem and what their opinions are on almost everything. However, by the force of that function, they tend to be unaware and disregard / disvalue group or social rules and conventions, especially if they are of the hard-headed, oppressive sort. Also, by means of the Fi, they tend to take things very personally and attach / involve themselves in plots and with its participants (on television, literature, and so on). They are most interested in personal stories, the inner life of the characters is what absorbs them most, and they can easily and intuitively suppose someone's whole emotional make-up (and are usually very accurate at it too). Fi is an inner judgment function, which means that, like their INTP counterparts who are wont to take an otherwise exciting idea and make it very dry indeed, the INFP usually imbibes perceptions with their own subjections, «romanticizing» them, so to speak. They nurture a relentless fantasy life inside them, being sometimes so self-absorbed that it is not uncommon to hear them say they have always been living inside a bubble, a great divide between their own peaceful and accomodating world and the harsh outside world for as far they can remember. It is important to distinguish the pair Fi / Fe as to their workings as dominant tendencies. The introverted feeling seeks to help other selflessly, for they «would not be able to live with themselves» if they did not ; should they values be really set within them, they may not even wish for outer rewards, not even emotional ones. Due to this integrity, they are rarely backstabbers or insincere with their feelings. Fe stands in contrast, as they __do expect some positive feedback and recognition (even if it is not admitted that they are not __that selfless). Another difference is that, in social situations, Fi rarely encourages to pass a hasty judgment, not before calculating their peer's state of mind. They are not averse to interacting with people just to size them up or to use their judgements about the person as part of a bigger scheme, hence many of them becoming notable poets, novelists, teachers and psychologists. The Fe as used by the IFJs, in comparison, to incentivate them to use their in-depth knowledge and mastery in one field to help people out of sympathy, not empathy, without need to make any deep interpersonal connection, providing others with what they __need, according to the judger, not always with what __want deep down ( they may make good health care workers therefore). 

The INFP's auxiliary Ne, if well-developed, enables them to explore and gain useful perceptions within the interpersonal and intrapersonal realm. They are then able to use their imagination in a playful and creative way. Seemingly effortless erudition is also likely, if they manage to stick to their tasks and interests. Due to this function, INFPs may appear to outsiders quite loose, liberal, laid-back, scattered, to the point of irresponsability, but, inside, they are very aware of their own rules, and if needed, they may become rigid and inflexible, as they do not believe in compromising their values. If they appear indolent and warm outside, one may be surprised that they can be quite judging internally ; secretely, they may come to the conclusion that they are morally superior to most around them. 

The Fi - Ne axis also explains why they seem inconsistent logically and wishy-washy when making decisions ; their outer intuition may force them to postpone judgement and go over many possibilities, something that may come in the form of a monologue in which nothing is really stated as fact (this can confuse interlocutors). Their carelessness with logic may also make their discourses hard to follow. They probably find the hard, one-size-fits-all rules of logic very distasteful and therefore have trouble applying them mentally to any situation, from logical games, mathematics and even problems in their own lives. This difficulty is down to the repressed Te; likewise, they probably have horror of the power of materialism and faceless corporations and its oppression of individualism, diversity and harmony. 

Finally, the way their functions are stacked up makes them able (and willing) of working independently for little material rewards, if it means autonomy, creativity and a small outlet to publish their works to a devoted few. They are not usually interested in worldwide approval or the application value of their productions to the general public, so they have a preference for careers of entertainment, that enable one-on-one communication and inspiration, rather than an 'utilitarian' career. _


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)

Ludi said:


> I object. I still think that you are most like an INFP, for the very same arguments I have presented...but the decision, as always, is yours.
> 
> 
> This is the extension of the INFP profile I had written. Do check it out. It will probably help to eliminate one of two possibilities.
> ...


You know, you might be right. I got the feeling she was an INFJ though.

Ljubavino, how much does this description resonate with you? How much does the INFJ description resonate with you? What do you think of Ludi's points?


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## Kytaari (Mar 14, 2011)

Dreamer777 said:


> I agree with the importance of how the functions are pair up, but i see where you can pinpoint functions in people however, but as i said, learning the pairing up is what i'm still learning to do, but i wouldn't want it to learn it to a point of being complicated and overwhelmed by it and then losing the simplicity of seeing each function in a person either, i would prefer to stick to the simplicity, but hopefully there would be a balance of keeping the knowledge and awareness of the simplicity to it at the same time as regarding some of the complexity. Remember INFJ's can get so complex they end up at no conclusive decision at all, where as INFP's will not want to lose that basic simple awareness. I think that is Ne verses Ni?
> 
> Ne – EXTRAVERTED INTUITING
> Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts.
> ...


I believe this is very useful information to read. ljubavivino, which function resonates with you more? Which process seems more at home with you when you think about situations?


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

@ljubavivino 

I really still think you're an INFP. I haven't had time to lay out my position in full (still don't have time till maybe a little later), I'm really seeing a lot of Ne as opposed to Ni. The whole "figuring things out"/brainstorming mentality is characteristic of Intuitions that are in a sense gathered outside oneself.

Also:


> This passing Christmas I met up with a lot of my old friends back home, and we got to catch up. We mostly talked a lot and told stories from while we haven't seen each other. I guess my memory of it is mostly how it made me feel. Also, impressions that i got from my friends. Rather than a specific story my friend told me, i'll remember '___ was really funny that night'. I hadn't seen a lot of them in a while either, so I remember thinking how much some of my friends remind me of our relationship when I was younger, while others seemed so different and i was trying to figure out how they've changed.


This is very Si on multiple fronts. Not only is the way you are telling this story very Si, but what you were actually doing at the time, thinking about the past and how things have changed since then is incredibly Si. I am frequently very reminiscent and nostalgic in a similar in a similar fashion, whereas most INFJs are not. 

I believe @Ludi's description is quite accurate and in addition I really suggest you visit INFJ or INFP? a closer look (The author even has a page about how INFJs and INFPs differ in their use of their tertiary function). I also think the articles below will be very helpful.

http://personalitycafe.com/infp-articles/76770-recognizing-inferior-function-ifps.html
http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/76894-recognizing-inferior-function-infj.html


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Sorry to leave you with something so long!

First off, I can definitely see a lot of myself in this description of an INFP. Although maybe i may have misguided definitions of different functions. The way you describe (what i'm assuming is) Fi in these descriptions is closer to what I thought was Fe? But anyways.



Ludi said:


> _ The INFP is perhaps the most sensitive of the 16 types. They can be quite upset by criticism, especially to the kind which seems to come out of everyone , that they are even sensitive to the criticisms not hurled at themselves! In this regard, they may aspire and* appear to be the devil's advocate for the attacked and the bullied, i*n so far as to become activists for the causes of the less fortunate and less numerous or powerful, or even towards those everyone else deems as 'abnormal, freaks'. The quality they most often strive to grow within themselves is compassion ; thus they can easily relate to the mottos «Live and let live» and *«nobody should tell someone else how to feel about any one thing»*. Despite their innate sensitivity, they may very well hide their feelings, especially from more cynical and judgmental beings, but release them and show their true nature amongst the ones they consider pure-hearted. The insensitive and indifferent façade they put on is a form of defense, in order to protect them from the stagnation they would be under if they always sought approbation and verdicts concerning their ideals and dreams. That is why many INFPs may not relate well with most adults and their societies, but relate much better with children and animals.* On the other hand, they sometimes hold on to their opinions and can be very wrong-headed when faced with inevitable and constant criticism. *_


> I am _definitely_ a devil's advocate, often times for the weak or bullied, but not limited to. If anyone presents an idea to me that is one sided, I feel the need to counter it will different perspectives and whatnot. I hate someone presenting an idea or perspective as one sided. Being a devil's advocate is such an instinctive quality to me, even for the most trivial things (people can get frustrated). 
> "nobody should tell anybody how to feel about any one thing." But what if the way somebody feels about something is completely ignorant and hurtful to others? What if somebody's feeling towards something are all of the above, and they are in a position of power/influence? To an extent i agree with this, but many peoples feeling could merit from some re-evaluating of how they feel/believe about something... 
>_"they sometimes hold on to their opinions" _Again, I thought this was an 'INFJ stubborn' trait? Sometimes I do this, but i just need time to think it over. 



Ludi said:


> _As the Fi is their dominant cognitive function, they tend to be very self-conscious of principles, values and objects they most esteem and what their opinions are on almost everything. However, by the force of that function, they *tend to be unaware and disregard / disvalue group or social rules and conventions*, especially if they are of the hard-headed, oppressive sort. Also, by means of the Fi, they tend to take things very personally and attach / involve themselves in plots and with its participants (on television, literature, and so on). *They are most interested in personal stories, the inner life of the characters is what absorbs them most, and they can easily and intuitively suppose someone's whole emotional make-up (and are usually very accurate at it too).*__ Fi is an inner judgment function, which means that, like their INTP counterparts who are wont to take an otherwise exciting idea and make it very dry indeed, the INFP usually imbibes perceptions with their own subjections, «romanticizing» them, so to speak. *They nurture a relentless fantasy life inside them, being sometimes so self-absorbed that it is not uncommon to hear them say they have always been living inside a bubble, a great divide between their own peaceful and accomodating world and the harsh outside world for as far they can remember.* It is important to distinguish the pair Fi / Fe as to their workings as dominant tendencies. The introverted feeling seeks to help other selflessly, for they «would not be able to live with themselves» if they did not ; *should they values be really set within them, they may not even wish for outer rewards, not even emotional ones.* Due to this integrity, they are rarely backstabbers or insincere with their feelings. Fe stands in contrast, *as they *__*do expect some positive feedback and recognition* (even if it is not admitted that they are not __that selfless). Another difference is that, in social situations, Fi rarely encourages to pass a hasty judgment, not before calculating their peer's state of mind. They are not averse to interacting with people just to size them up or to use their judgements about the person as part of a bigger scheme, hence many of them becoming notable poets, novelists, teachers and psychologists. The Fe as used by the IFJs, in comparison, to incentivate them to use their in-depth knowledge and mastery in one field to help people out of *sympathy, not empathy*, without need to make any deep interpersonal connection, providing others with what they __need, according to the judger, not always with what __want deep down ( they may make good health care workers therefore). _


>I _am aware_ of group or social rules and conventions, but i also usually don't agree with them. From what it sounds like, Fi users like to go against the crowd, but to me that's something that takes a lot of courage and confidence, which i often don't have. I usually end up withdrawing myself completely from the crowd because I feel frustrated by how much i don't agree with them, and trying to fit in is such a draining process. Because I do usually try and fit in to some extent...
>I'm really interested in personal stories, but as for the '_intuitively suppose someone's whole emotional make-up'_, I don't know if I'm ever _that_ certain about a person. I mean, i definitely get strong feelings about what I think someone is like but i'm always doubting myself. I _do_ like to make judgments. Despite making sometimes harsh and other times overly attached judgements towards people, i'm also aware of how likely it is for them to constantly be changing. I'm constantly re-evaluating people and I always have some doubt as to whether i've done it correctly. I've gone from loving to hating from a single thing they've said, and vice versa. I can talk to somebody once and spent the next week on a rollercoaster of what i actually think of them.
>Yes to the relentless fantasy life. Could this not also be Ni though?
>I don't _always_ expect positive feedback form helping others. Sometimes I'll get a satisfaction just from being helpful (Which is why i think i've gotten walked over in the past). But i do require _some_, at least from the people I'm closest to, and those that i'm giving a lot to. It doesn't necessarily have to be straightforward, but as long as I get the impression that what i'm doing means something to them. Sometimes I find it hard to keep doing things without positive feedback, especially when it comes to really important desicions. Also, if i don't get some positive feedback from the few people I'm close to, I'll start being hyper-aware of not receiving it from even the smallest acts of compassion i give to strangers. I'm leaning towards Fe here..



Ludi said:


> _The INFP's auxiliary Ne, if well-developed, enables them to explore and gain useful perceptions within the interpersonal and intrapersonal realm. They are then able to use their imagination in a playful and creative way. Seemingly effortless erudition is also likely, if they manage to stick to their tasks and interests. *Due to this function, INFPs may appear to outsiders quite loose, liberal, laid-back, scattered, to the point of irresponsability*, but, inside, they are very aware of their own rules, and if needed, they may become rigid and inflexible, as they do not believe in compromising their values. If they appear indolent and warm outside, one may be surprised that they can be quite judging internally ; secretely, they may come to the conclusion that they are morally superior to most around them. _


>Er, I actually think i come off as quite responsible. Maybe occasionally scatterbrained.
_> _If i seem inflexible, it's a temporary reaction towards being attacked or, i don't know, being pushed into my emotional limit. Give me time to calm down and think the situation over, and I really am a flexible person in the long run!



Ludi said:


> _The Fi - Ne axis also explains why they seem inconsistent logically and wishy-washy when making decisions ; their outer intuition may force them to postpone judgement and go over many possibilities, something that may come in the form of a monologue in which nothing is really stated as fact (this can confuse interlocutors). *Their carelessness with logic may also make their discourses hard to follow*.* They probably find the hard, one-size-fits-all rules of logic very distasteful and therefore have trouble applying them mentally to any situation, from logical games, mathematics and even problems in their own lives.* This difficulty is down to the repressed Te; likewise, they probably have horror of the power of materialism and faceless corporations and its oppression of individualism, diversity and harmony.
> 
> Finally, the way their functions are stacked up makes them able (and willing) of working independently for little material rewards, if it means autonomy, creativity and a small outlet to publish their works to a devoted few. They are not usually interested in worldwide approval or the application value of their productions to the general public, so they have a preference for careers of entertainment, that enable one-on-one communication and inspiration, rather than an 'utilitarian' career. _


>What do you mean 'careless with logic'? Because I don't know about this one.. While straight up logic isn't something that my mind naturally deals with, i really appreciate a logical input into a situation. A logical perspective is important to take into account when debating a situation, otherwise I'll often get between a bunch of different sides driven by feelings. Not that one is better than the other. I'm always pretty hesitant to present an issue or idea without considering it logically..
>Also I think the 'one-size-fits-all rules of logic' are just the way it is often presented, not the way it really is. I actually often try and mentally organize things in neat sections, but at the same time i'm completely aware that these sections are just for organizations sake and there is obvious leeway between them. I don't think i have trouble applying things like this to my life, but only because my way of interpreting doesn't make them appear so strict (does this make sense?) .

I always thought I was Fe because I tend to tip-toe around people's opinions and only choose to voice mine in a selective way (but i guess that could also be Fi?). If someone says something that offends me, i'd rather 'pick my battle' based on whether I think anything good will come out of it than constantly fight for my beliefs. If i'm not the only one being offended, then there's more of a chance I will speak out. If someone else speaks out, then I'll more likely stand behind them for support.

Also, i don't really feel the need to release my emotions too often. Or rather, If there is no one that I feel comfortable enough to share them with, i can get by without letting them out. I really hate the thought of sharing something personal and not getting an understanding (i guess is the word i'm looking for here..?) response. Something like this can fill me with immense regret. Also, talking too long about myself is draining.. I don't like putting too much of my personal self out there AT ALL. Yet, dealing with other peoples emotions almost never drains me (at least not in quite the same negative way)

PS, I was initially convinced you were right and than I was actually an INFP, but reading through this i'm having some doubts.


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

*@Dreamer777 *& @*allisreal *
I'm going to step back from thinking about my type for a while, i'll come back and take a look at these later! (Cause right now I'm seeing myself in both the Ne and Ni, which doesn't make any sense.)

Also I don't think i know how the make those @ things directed at people..


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> Sorry to leave you with something so long!
> 
> First off, I can definitely see a lot of myself in this description of an INFP. Although maybe i may have misguided definitions of different functions. The way you describe (what i'm assuming is) Fi in these descriptions is closer to what I thought was Fe? But anyways.
> 
> ...


i am an INFP i see you as an INFJ, not an INFP, even in your response to this post by Ludi, INFJ stands out in your responses.

As for the post by Ludi, it is pretty good, but i see some things that are INFJ too, i'll try to get to it later and put my input... if Ludi is interested to hear my input, i'm a meaning seeker, i love harmony and clarity, so if Ludi genuinely would like to hear my INFP input on his description of INFP's that would make it a priority for me to do it, otherwise i'll just float on over to something else i find more entertaining for the moment...


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> *@Dreamer777 *& @*allisreal *
> I'm going to step back from thinking about my type for a while, i'll come back and take a look at these later! (Cause right now I'm seeing myself in both the Ne and Ni, which doesn't make any sense.)
> 
> Also I don't think i know how the make those @ things directed at people..


You would be stronger in one or the other, which one you believe you are stronger in? Of course you have both, i have some Ni in me too, we all have the 8 cognitive functions in us, it's just we have different percentage ratios of each one, no 2 people of the same type are identical in percentage ratios of the cognitives, but for a toss up of types between a dominant Fi secondary Ne, verses a dominant Ni secondary Fe, you will see you are stronger in one of those between Ni and Ne, doesn't mean you don't have and don't use the other, of course you do, but you will be stronger in one. Just like you will have more dominant Fi over Fe or Fe over Fi. Like i say i use Ni sometimes, but i'm way stronger in Ne. Just like i use Fe sometimes but i'm way stronger in Fi. So of course you can have some INFP ways as an INFJ, just like i could have some INFJ ways as an INFP, but i am dominantly an INFP. Take as long break as you need, but i just want to say something else, look at the functions of Ti and Si, in INFP's Ti is the shadow of the inferior function known as the devilsh function, and in INFJ's Si is the devilish function. I find that each type doesn't really comprehend very well the description of the devilish function. So, out of Ti and Si, which one do you comprehend the description and which one you don't really understand the description that well?

As for the @, i wish i could help you, i am longing to learn how to copy pieces of a post rather than the whole entire post, i just don't know how to do it?? i wish someone could explain please....?

(like for me as an INFP, i can't really understand the description of Ti, cause my thought processing doesn't really use it and can't really grasp the meaning of it?)

Ti - INTROVERTED THINKING 
Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles.
Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed. 


Si - INTROVERTED SENSING
Reviewing and recalling past experiences and seeking detailed data.
Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes.

Let's see what you have to say about Ti and Si, would be interesting to hear... i have spoken with another INFJ about their understanding of their devilish function Si, and they can't really grasp the meaning of it, it's alien to them kind of thing, just like Ti is alian to me...


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> First off, I can definitely see a lot of myself in this description of an INFP. Although maybe i may have misguided definitions of different functions. The way you describe (what i'm assuming is) Fi in these descriptions is closer to what I thought was Fe? But anyways.
> 
> PS, I was initially convinced you were right and than I was actually an INFP, but reading through this i'm having some doubts.


From what I can understand , you just mentioned some exceptions, a type profile is broad and cannot fully apply to any one. But, as allisreal and kytaari, I think you are an INFP.

Do step back, it may very well help.


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## Ludi (Dec 25, 2011)

Dreamer777 said:


> As for the post by Ludi, it is pretty good, but i see some things that are INFJ too, i'll try to get to it later and put my input... if Ludi is interested to hear my input, i'm a meaning seeker, i love harmony and clarity, so if Ludi genuinely would like to hear my INFP input on his description of INFP's that would make it a priority for me to do it, otherwise i'll just float on over to something else i find more entertaining for the moment...


I'll read your INFP input.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Ludi said:


> I'll read your INFP input.


ok Ludi, will do, a little later on i'll focus my mind on it and show you what i as an INFP see doesn't really match and show you what things can apply to both INFJ and INFP, and what things i see as more INFJ than INFP.... promise to get back to you on that... my mind not wanting to focus on it right now, as soon as my mind gets in the mood to focus, which will probably be later on tonight...


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Dreamer777 said:


> Remember INFJ's can get so complex they end up at no conclusive decision at all,


 I feel like this is what's going on right now! I think i may be over complicating this. What I mean is i can look at myself as an INFP through the description Ludi has provided, and it seems pretty accurate. Then I can go do the same with what I know about INFJ's... I'm not sure if this is an 'Fi' being able to put themselves in other people's shoe's thing or an Ni looking at different perspectives? Anyways..

I've kinda come back to this and now and I'm a little more sure I'm an INFJ. I remember when I was first reading about the functions there was a lot of 'I don't understand Ni, how does it work?' and stuff, and I never really got that. Ni made perfect sense to me. Ne makes sense to me too, although I think that's generally because I've seen it in other people. Yes, I do enjoy brainstorming, combining possibilities and cross contextualized thinking _but _I need to have something figured out before I can do this. I feel like brainstorming is just a catalyst for my Ni, as it gathers outside perspectives and lets me kind of 'get out of my head' for a while. Then I can go back to figuring things out myself.
Also, the 'Aha!' moments always seem to cheesy, but I do get them often and they're great. 
_
'Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions'_ doesn't really happen, unless it's something I've thought of before and it connects to the conversation i'm having with someone. I usually have trouble thinking on the spot and will hesitantly agree with someone about something that i'm not sure of because I can't really place what's wrong with it. After I've thought it'll usually make sense to me. 

'Spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.' I don't think i'm necessary a bad leader, but I have trouble directing people who aren't cooperative. Or having to deal with a changing environment without time to step back and figure it out. For example, at work i'm efficient and know how to get things done, but when it comes to bossing others around I always feel like i'm coming off too harsh and just end up doing a lot of the work myself as to avoid dispute. If i'm correct, this seems like an example of Fe. 
I think the idea of spreading change is wonderful, but I read something somewhere about INFJ's working behind the scene's and this seems a lot more appropriate for myself. I'd rather work WITH somebody who likes to instruct change through leadership!

At the risk of going against everyone's who's taken the time to type me as infp, I'm increasingly moving towards Infj. Still, I can't help but wonder if i'm looking for infj qualities in myself? Or if I should give more weight to an outside, more objective perspective..


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Dreamer777 said:


> Let's see what you have to say about Ti and Si, would be interesting to hear... i have spoken with another INFJ about their understanding of their devilish function Si, and they can't really grasp the meaning of it, it's alien to them kind of thing, just like Ti is alian to me...


I already spoke about Ti and Si above! I think i hesitantly went with Ti.
Si doesn't seem completely alien to me, but i feel as if it's something that I would be able to recognize within myself if I had it. What does amaze me is when I can see it in action. I've seen dominant Si users pull a specific detail out of nowhere and ask me if I remember it the way they do, and If i can remember it _at all_, It's most likely some skewed version of what actually happened. 
If i'm listening to a song and it brings me back to a time, it's more like me comparing the two. If the same dominant Si friend of mine listens to a song that brings her back to a time, she'll be able to tell you where we were, who was there, what else went on that night... etc. Also, describing myself as attentive to detail in the world around me is just... completely inaccurate. Those who know me poke fun at how non-attentive to my surrounds I can be.


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> I already spoke about Ti and Si above! I think i hesitantly went with Ti.
> Si doesn't seem completely alien to me, but i feel as if it's something that I would be able to recognize within myself if I had it. What does amaze me is when I can see it in action. I've seen dominant Si users pull a specific detail out of nowhere and ask me if I remember it the way they do, and If i can remember it _at all_, It's most likely some skewed version of what actually happened.
> If i'm listening to a song and it brings me back to a time, it's more like me comparing the two. If the same dominant Si friend of mine listens to a song that brings her back to a time, she'll be able to tell you where we were, who was there, what else went on that night... etc. Also, describing myself as attentive to detail in the world around me is just... completely inaccurate. Those who know me poke fun at how non-attentive to my surrounds I can be.


As an INFP with an ISTJ brother whose brain I imagine to be a monstrous memory database, I relate to this a lot. xD You could have Si as your tertiary function.

You should try to figure out if you have Ni/Fe or Fi/Ne based on "direction" of the functions. From what I understand, a major difference between Ni and Ne is that Ni does not depend on verification from the environment; Ne does. A Ne user can have remarkable ideas, but will still seek another person's input on them, otherwise the user will have doubts.

Likewise, the desire to know other people's feelings can come from either Fe or Fi. Fe users do it naturally, Fi users do it if morally driven and do not let their own feelings be affected as much as a Fe user.

I wish I could help more, but (as always) I'm not confident on my knowledge of the functions or whether what I'm saying applies to you. I hope you clear your confusion soon.


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

Overflow said:


> As an INFP with an ISTJ brother whose brain I imagine to be a monstrous memory database, I relate to this a lot. xD You could have Si as your tertiary function.
> 
> You should try to figure out if you have Ni/Fe or Fi/Ne based on "direction" of the functions. From what I understand, a major difference between Ni and Ne is that Ni does not depend on verification from the environment; Ne does. A Ne user can have remarkable ideas, but will still seek another person's input on them, otherwise the user will have doubts.


Interesting about your brother!
I'm trying to grasp the idea of Ne needing verification.. I always thought of Ne as imaging a multitude of possibilities, and that they require direction rather than verification. 
My idea's aren't usually about action though. I like to deconstruct or hypothesize ideas and situations just for the sake of it. But what you're saying is, in constrast to Ne needing verification, Ni users are confident that their idea's are right?

The Fe/Fi thing is confusing to me, especially coming back to the way Ludi described it. Stuff like:
"_They are most interested in personal stories, the inner life of the characters is what absorbs them most, and they can easily and intuitively suppose someone's whole emotional make-up (and are usually very accurate at it too)." _
&
"_The introverted feeling seeks to help other selflessly, for they «would not be able to live with themselves» if they did not "_
sound like Fe to me! Is there a good thread discussing the different between the two??

Also, the Ne needing validation is similar to the Fe requiring positive feedback and recognition, is it not?


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

ljubavivino said:


> Is there a good thread discussing the different between the two??


Here's a quote from the pinned topic in Cognitive Functions sub-forum:



simulatedworld said:


> Note that both Fe and Fi users often feel a strong sense of moral obligation to their loved ones; the difference is simply the source of this obligation. If it comes from an external/objective cultural standard, it's probably Fe--if it comes from a personal sense of moral responsibility that deliberately blocks out external influence, it's probably Fi.


The whole post is an excellent read in my opinion.


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

ljubavivino said:


> Interesting about your brother!
> I'm trying to grasp the idea of Ne needing verification.. I always thought of Ne as imaging a multitude of possibilities, and that they require direction rather than verification.
> My idea's aren't usually about action though. I like to deconstruct or hypothesize ideas and situations just for the sake of it. But what you're saying is, in constrast to Ne needing verification, Ni users are confident that their idea's are right?
> 
> ...


The whole notion that Fi only focuses on oneself whereas Fe directs its attention to others is a bit overstated. It has more to do with where we gather our sense of morality of moral responsibility as indicated in @Overflow's post. I think INFJs as Fe users would naturally be more attuned to the social politics of a situation. They will often be more comfortable communicating to a group as they can use their Fe charismatically to amass support. This is not to say that INFPs cannot be aware of the social politics, as I think I am now. When I was younger, however, I was completely oblivious and so buried deep in my Fi that people really didn't take me to be as serious as I would have liked. 

The funny things is in real life I don't think I would ever confuse any of the INFJs or suspected INFJs I know to be INFPs. I have mistaken a few INFJs to be Extraverts due to their strong communication skills only to realize that their Ni and in some cases Ti was far too prevalent for them to be ENFJs. Has infjorinfp.com not helped? Did you find any of her diagnostics helpful or do you find that you're still jumping back and forth between the two?

Here's one from a "Simple Truth":



> If you've devoted time to investigating INFJ & INFP and you can't really tell what the difference is, or you just can't make up your mind which one you are and keep waffling back and forth -- the simple truth is that your preferences are probably for INFP.


It's kind of ironic. The fact that you're seeing bits of yourself in the various descriptions is more in line with the 'could-be' mentality of an Ne user. 

To address your final point, all extraverted functions need some sort of external validation. This is why Ne likes hearing positive feedback about their ideas. I think in some ways for INFPs inferior Te might also be at play because they might doubt their ability to identify things objectively even if they're not all that bad. It can still really help to get a second opinion. Ni dominants on the other hand don't seem to need the same type of external validation for their ideas.


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## ljubavivino (Feb 2, 2012)

okkk so i made a video in hopes that it will clear it up! It seems like it would be easier, so what do you think?






NOTE: 3:50 - this is badly worded. When i say that i don't get along with a lot of people in conversations I just mean that I don't really feel as if i connect to them. I still try to get along with them and keep the conversation going, but i'm really aware if they're not positively responding to what i'm saying. 
Anyways, just rewatched this and it's like I can't stop moving! Ne?


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## allisreal (Mar 23, 2010)

ljubavivino said:


> okkk so i made a video in hopes that it will clear it up! It seems like it would be easier, so what do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's cool that you posted this, but you have it set to private.


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