# I Am Completely Uncertain Of My Personality Type



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

My personality test results are very... Inconclusive.

When I took PersonalityCafe's test on the 16 types, I was barely an INTJ. 
*
Introversion (I): |||||||||||||| 56.76%
Extroversion (E): ||||||||||| 43.24%

Intuition (N): |||||||||||||| 55.88%
Sensation (S): ||||||||||| 44.12%

Thinking (T): |||||||||||||||| 65.38%
Feeling (F): ||||||||| 34.62%

Judging (J): |||||||||||||| 56.67%
Perceiving (P): ||||||||||| 43.33%*

When I took the Cognitive functions test, I showed as most likely an INTP.

*Based on your cognitive functions, your type is most likely:
Most Likely: INTP
or Second Possibility: ENTP
or Third Possibility: ESTJ


Your cognitive functions are, in order of development:
Ti - Ne - Te - Si - Ni - Fi - Fe - Se
*

_*And if it helps, here are my family's types:
(self tested.):
Mother: INFJ
Biological Father: INFJ
Brother: INFJ
Step Father: ESFP
Step Sister S: ESFP
Grandmother: INTJ

(Not tested, my suspicion):
Step Sister K: INFP
Half Sister: ISFJ
*_


*1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?*
My test results.
I never test strongly on anything except T vs F where I usually test about 70% T (thinking), so the only thing I am sure of is that I am a T. 

*2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?*
I yearn for recognition. Not by the public, not even by a group of people. Just one person. I want one person to truly recognize, appreciate, and understand who I am.

*3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way. *
I cannot recall a particular time where I felt at my best. However, I do feel particularly good when I have finished a piece of work (generally art or writing) after working on it non stop for hours. Generally when this happens I am alone in my room, and the time is late night or early morning (11:00pm-4:00am.)

*4) What makes you feel inferior?*
When someone has convinced a qualified professional that they are more competent at doing something of important (generally art or writing) than I am.
Being sexually dominated.
Being pitied.
When I lose an argument.
When I raise my hand to answer a question in class, share my answer, and that answer is wrong. 
When someone I view as stupider than me wins an argument.

*5) What tends to weigh on your decisions?*
Well, I generally _know_ what my decision is going to be right when I am presented with a question. However, I do weigh the pros and cons before I make my final decision- though it is rarely different than what my original decision is.

*6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?*
What my emphasis is depends on what kind of project it is. Usually the content is my emphasis; I must make sure everything is accurate.


*7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it?*
Well I don't know about 'fun', but I do recall a time I was very content. Me and my friend were outside her house. It was a summer night. We sat on the top of her Westfalia camper and talked for hours. Then we took a walk around the neighborhood and settled to sit and chat on the local highschool property.

*8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you?*
I have to write everything down to remember and learn it more thoroughly. I do not have the best memory after just reading some information.

*9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?*
This is very hard to explain.
My room is a mess, I'm a messy eater, I'm fairly unscheduled..
But my note taking, my workplace and my school assignments are always very carefully organized and structured. 
So I do not know how to answer this question.

*10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?*
I look at the whole idea, then break it into parts. then I rebuild the parts to determine possible outcomes, or what could become of the idea. 

*11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?*
By making sure that I follow what I believe and by being myself.

*12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?*
I speak shallowly while I think and once I have thought everything through and processed everything, I talk more in-depth.
And one-on-one communication is what I feel most comfortable with.

*13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?*
It depends on the situation.
If it is not urgent, I always need to know what I'm jumping into.
However, if it is an urgent situation where my people are in danger, I jump into action without putting much thought into the consequences. I've stepped in front of a knife that was pointed at my friend before. (Luckily I didn't get stabbed ^^

*14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?*
Go with my friends. The show will re-run soon anyhow.

*15) How do you act when you're stressed out?* Completely scattered on this inside and I appear absent-minded to the outside world. When I am under too much stress, I go to my room and rock back and fourth on my bed as thoughts rush through my head. I wait for them to calm. And then I lay down and get lost in my mind; I space out. Disconnect from my body.

*16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?*
Well I dislike arrogance, self-pity, and 'snowflakes.' (Snowflakes are people who believe they are very unique and special, and different from everybody else, generally they are self-pitying and/or arrogant.)

*17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?*Yes.
Art. Writing. Psychology. 

*18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?*
If I didn't pay attention to '__' then how would I know what '__' is? This is a stupid question that is impossible to answer.
Obviously if someone paid little attention to something then it would not come to mind when this question came up, because they never think about it!

*19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?*
My closest friend has defined me as self confident, smart, and impossible to win an argument against. When we were talking about each other's faults, she mentioned how I come off as domineering or intimidating. And she said something like 'Well, and I guess it seems like you don't really filter what you say. You don't care about who's feelings it's going to hurt. But I like that, because when we go shopping and I try clothes on, you give me your honest opinion. If I look fat, you tell me!' Hah.
There is nothing wrong with their perception. It's their perception, it can't be right or wrong. It can, however, be inaccurate.
I suppose my friends would never say that I am spineless, dumb, or gullible.

*20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?*
Probably sex. Then snuggle. Then sleep. 


_So, Personality Cafe, any ideas?

I'm also interested in the Enneagram as well, if you have any ideas about that._


----------



## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

some form of INxJ. Definitely seem to have the inferior-Se going on along with INJ tendencies to disconnect and become almost catatonic when really upset. Breaking things down into smaller parts sounds like Ni+Te (Ti is much more about precision). 

My guess is INTJ.


----------



## babblingbrook (Aug 10, 2009)

INTJ indeed, also enneagram type 5, you don't want to be incompetent.


----------



## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Totally agreed on the type 5, but as far as type goes I could see INTJ or INTP (with high Ti that is scrambling the P/J dimension).

Hmmm... what kind of hobbies do you have and how do you go about playing them (frequency, alone/group, extent of research beforehand...)? What sorts of things get you interested in reading a book or story?


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

@LiquidLight Well if you think I am an INxJ then you must think I am an INTJ because I stated the only thing I know is that I am a T.

@babblingbrook You are able to judge my MBTI and Enneagram just based on that statement? Are there certain things like fearing incompetence that only certain types have?

@ElectricSparkle Hobbies..? Hm, I like to read, write, draw and research topics that interest me. And I adore food. I guess food isn't really a hobby, but I love to eat. And I usually do these activities alone but around people. Like, my friends like to cuddle me while I read and such. 
When I write I definitely research what I'm writing about when I get around to it. But sometimes ideas just come into my mind and I let them flow out on paper before I forget them. Oddly, most of the ideas I have are sexual so half my writing would be considered 'smut.'


----------



## babblingbrook (Aug 10, 2009)

Zoroark said:


> @babblingbrook You are able to judge my MBTI and Enneagram just based on that statement? Are there certain things like fearing incompetence that only certain types have?


 Absolutely not. Overall I got an extraverted thinking vibe from what you all wrote, but I might as well have confused the statements you made with you being an enneagram type 5... Well, the basic desire of the type 5 is to be capable and competent. 
"I wait for them to calm. And then I lay down and get lost in my mind; I space out. Disconnect from my body." sounded a bit enneagram type 9'ish, but I believe your core type must be type 5 (most likely with a type 4 wing). If so, you probably already did a lot of researching on the enneagram. See if you can relate to the descriptions.

You might wanna try this test as well, since I just got the idea after rereading your original post that you might as well be INTP: Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

"Usually the content is my emphasis; I must make sure everything is accurate." could be either Ti or Te, Ti is more likely... Self confidence might be more applicable to an INTJ...

When you research topics that interest you, are you all over the place researching or are you more focused on what you research? As if you plan the things you research since they might be of use to you later on?


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

@babblingbrook
Here's that test you sent me a link to:
_Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTJ

Lead (Dominant) Process
Introverted Intuiting (Ni): Transforming with a meta-perspective. Withdrawing from the world and focusing your mind to receive an insight or realization. Checking if synergy results. Trying out a realization to transform things.

Support (Auxilliary) Process
Extraverted Thinking (Te): Measuring and constructing for progress. Making decisions objectively based on evidence and measures. Checking if things function properly. Applying a procedure to control events and complete goals.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTJ, or INTP

If these results are different from what you know of yourself, you might consider why your developmental pattern does not align with your expectation. You might also consider exploring this result as a possible better fit._

Here's the Enneagram test:
_You are a Type 5 with a 6 wing: "The Scientist"

Your tritype is 5w6, 8w9, 4w5.

In enneagram theory, you have one type for how you relate to the world (either 8, 9, or 1), one type for how you think (5, 6, 7) and one type for how you see yourself (2, 3, 4.) Your tri-type contains one number from each of these triads. They are listed in the order of how strongly they present in your personality. 

Your core type (your strongest type) is Type 5 with a 6 wing: Type Five individuals are cerebral, intelligent, and complex. Type Five is often called the Investigator type, because they are constantly trying to learn more about the world. To a Five, knowledge is power, and knowing more about the world around them makes the world a safer place. It’s common for a Five to withdraw into their own thoughts and ruminate on intricate ideas and concepts. Type Fives, when they are in a growth state, become self-confident and authoritative like a Type Eight. When they are stressed, Type Fives become scattered like an unhealthy Type Seven. You are a Type Five with a Six wing, which means that the cerebral nature of a Type Five combines with the troubleshooting thought style of a Type Six. This makes Type 5w6 the Enneagram type of the stereotypical scientist – the 5w6 is always creating new ideas and testing them.

Your second type (your next strongest type) is Type 8 with a 9 wing: Eights are assertive, dominant individuals who naturally take control of situations. Eights are aggressive in satisfying their needs, and indeed, Type Eight is the most aggressive personality type in the Enneagram. When in a state of growth, Eights become like Type Twos - caring and protective of other people. When Eights are stressed, they become withdrawn and secretive like Type Fives. You're an Eight with a Nine wing, which means that the calm nature of Type Nine combines with the assertive nature of Type Eight to create an individual who uses their power justly and often doesn't make the first attack... but if someone else does, they'll finish it.

Your third type (the least-used of the three) is Type 4 with a 5 wing: Type Four individuals are intensely emotionally aware, and often retreat to their rich inner world of concepts and ideas. They are the most artistic type in the Enneagram and driven to create their own, unique identity. Type Fours value authenticity highly and express themselves whenever they can. They are one of the most individualistic types in the Enneagram. Type Fours, when in a state of growth, become principled like Type Ones. When stressed, Type Fours can become clingy like an unhealthy Type Two. You are a Type Four with a Five wing, which means that the individualist nature of a Four combines with the cerebral nature of a Five to make you one of the most creative types in the Enneagram.
_


----------



## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

If your top two processes are Ni+Te you are INTJ.


----------



## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Hi! I'll just tell what kind of impression I get... Somehow I find it weird that you need to ask others what's your type if you're really an INTJ and Enneagram Five. Maybe my impression is incorrect but those types aren't very common to need help for typing themselves. 

So, I would suggest you to investigate about INTPs more, even that seems more likely. I found it hard to see the intuitiveness but I'm sensing by myself so maybe that might explain. I just thought that if you could be sensing, too - at least you seem to value being accurate. 

And at least I find it weird that a Five would use verbs like _adore _and _love_ (especially when talking about food... Five is a head type, not gut... but of course others than gut types like to eat, that's not my point). You seem quite competitive... Could you be a Three? Do you think being better than others is enough or do you just want to be capable?

Also, even the title of this thread (_I Am Completely Uncertain Of My Personality Type_) seems more like a 6w5 than a 5w6. Check out that, too. Sixes are kinda cool if you ask me roud:


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

babblingbrook said:


> "I wait for them to calm. And then I lay down and get lost in my mind; I space out. Disconnect from my body." *sounded a bit enneagram type 9'ish, but I believe your core type must be type 5 (most likely with a type 4 wing).* If so, you probably already did a lot of researching on the enneagram. See if you can relate to the descriptions.


Why _must_ she be 5? Because she's a T? Honestly, I saw virtually nothing that made me think 5, let alone 5w4. Especially her answers to #16.

@Zoroark
I'm going to suggest 9w1 or 1w9; 1w9 is more competence-driven than the 9w1, but the 9w1 is much more self-critical. Possibly 3 or 6, though.

As for MBTI... I'm going to guess INTJ, but I'll admit this isn't really my forte. I wouldn't be surprised if you were an INTP. How much have you read about the functions? There's a lot of reading material around here in the Articles and Cognitive Functions areas. Might have to dig into the older posts for the good stuff.

Linked these in another thread earlier today:
Is this a good example of Fi vs. Fe?
A Compilation of Links to Threads Discussing Introverted Feeling


----------



## babblingbrook (Aug 10, 2009)

Paradigm said:


> Why _must_ she be 5? Because she's a T? Honestly, I saw virtually nothing that made me think 5, let alone 5w4. Especially her answers to #16.
> 
> @_Zoroark_
> I'm going to suggest 9w1 or 1w9; 1w9 is more competence-driven than the 9w1, but the 9w1 is much more self-critical. Possibly 3 or 6, though.


 There were lots of things she said that made me think type 5, not just because she's a T. The type 5 has a secret longing for power, since they are a bit stingy. Also might have something to do with the integration to type 8. This shows over here:
"I yearn for recognition. Not by the public, not even by a group of people. Just one person. I want one person to truly recognize, appreciate, and understand who I am." 
"To truly understand who I am" seems also like something a type 4 would say. It's also not the type of recognition a type 3 is looking for.

"when I have finished a piece of work (generally art or writing) after working on it non stop for hours" 
A drive for self expression made me think type 4.

These things made me all think type 5:
"When someone has convinced a qualified professional that they are more competent at doing something of important (generally art or writing) than I am." 

This is not something I'd see a core type 6 saying, right? It's more of the intellectual arrogance of the type 5.

Things a type 5 typically fears:
"When I lose an argument.
When I raise my hand to answer a question in class, share my answer, and that answer is wrong. 
When someone I view as stupider than me wins an argument." 

"Completely scattered on this inside and I appear absent-minded to the outside world. When I am under too much stress, I go to my room and rock back and fourth on my bed as thoughts rush through my head. I wait for them to calm. And then I lay down and get lost in my mind; I space out. Disconnect from my body." 
Makes me think a type 5 disintegration to type 7. The type 5 indeed becomes scattered.

"Well I dislike arrogance, self-pity, and 'snowflakes.' (Snowflakes are people who believe they are very unique and special, and different from everybody else, generally they are self-pitying and/or arrogant.)" 

She might perceive arrogance in others as something bad. She might be intellectually arrogant herself as a type 5, but doesn't appreciate this in others. That's arrogance right? The snowflakes comment could be perceived in the same way. It shows the type 4 envy.

"My closest friend has defined me as self confident, smart, and impossible to win an argument against. When we were talking about each other's faults, she mentioned how I come off as domineering or intimidating. And she said something like 'Well, and I guess it seems like you don't really filter what you say. You don't care about who's feelings it's going to hurt. But I like that, because when we go shopping and I try clothes on, you give me your honest opinion. If I look fat, you tell me!' Hah."

This is not something I'd see a type 9 saying, they'd be more agreeable. They also wouldn't come off as domineering or intimidating.

I also believe the social stacking is her last instinctual stacking.

The only thing that made me doubt type 5 is indeed what zallla said:


zallla said:


> Somehow I find it weird that you need to ask others what's your type if you're really an INTJ and Enneagram Five. Maybe my impression is incorrect but those types aren't very common to need help for typing themselves.


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

@zallla
Thank you. Really, I was wondering the same thing about the INTJ. It seems that so many people (not on here, in reality) have assumed an INTJ for stupid reasons. I don't think I am an INTJ because I believe they would know exactly what they were once it was described to them. And I did think I was an INTP or ENTP more likely, but it seems that people like to label me an introvert because I enjoy solitude and often do things alone. But I don't actually find socializing that 'draining.' (I certainly don't find it energizing either though.)

And as for the Enneagram, I don't want to relate to any of them. The Enneagram 6 is the most appealing to me, I mean I think if I were to name the Enneagram I want to be, it would be 6. Smart enough to want to know the rules, independent enough to break them; loyal and security-oriented. The only real flaw I can see in a 6 is indecisiveness and perhaps a tendency to be co-dependent. Their 'fears' and phobias seem to me more like an active awareness of the dangers of this world, which is nothing I frown upon. And though I want to identify with the 6, I just don't. The childhood scenarios, the basic fears and desires, the disintegration and integration points.. It is nothing like me at all. But after reading more in depth about the Enneagram 6, I can tell it is what my brother and my biological father are. And I think most of the boys I've been in sexual relationships with were 6's as well. 

And no, I absolutely could not be a 3. Motivated by acclaim? I hate compliments. I'm not one to put on a show. I have no interest in social popularity, though I might have some interest in social power. The only time I ever take compliments well is when what I consider a _qualified person_ compliments me. Someone tells me how good of an artist I am? I don't care unless I know they are a good artist too. If Stephanie Meyer (someone who can't write) were to tell me I was a good writer, it would have no effect on me. If Jane Austen or Agatha Christie (someone who can write) told me I was I good writer, I would feel very good about my writing, more so than usual. And no, I do not feel I am better than others. Certain people are better than me at certain things while I am better than them at other things. I just want to be capable.


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

@Paradigm

_"Why must she be 5? Because she's a T? Honestly, I saw virtually nothing that made me think 5, let alone 5w4. Especially her answers to #16."
_
Do Enneagram 5w4s appreciate self-pitying arrogant Snowflakes? I'm missing something, hahah. (Perhaps they just do not oppose them so much, right?)

And I haven't read much on functions, I'll be sure to look through those.


----------



## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Yes learn the functions. Being able to type yourself into a four letter code without understanding the functions behind them is just craziness. There is no such thing as 65% Extravert or any of that stuff. I'm not even sure why the tests even give out information like that (as MBTI basically works on a bell curve system anyway). Once you can identify your functions, especially your dominant the type code (which really is not all that important in the big picture) will come easily. When you take a test its asking questions relative to a certain cognitive function and trying to figure out if you have a preference for that function, but since tests are self-reported the answers are only as good as you are self-aware. MBTI tests are junk in, junk out. 

But if you learn the functions you can identify what your own preferences are with far more accuracy than a test, which is just a streamlined, but not often accurate way to getting to the answer quickly. And unless you take the actual Meyers Briggs Instrument, internet tests are absolute junk. Never trust those results without being able to verify them based on some objective data. You'd be better off typing yourself with a fortune cookie than trusting most free internet tests.


----------



## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

Zoroark said:


> It seems that so many people (not on here, in reality) have *assumed an INTJ for stupid reasons. I don't think I am an INTJ because I believe they would know exactly what they were once it was described to them.* And I did think I was an INTP or ENTP more likely, but it seems that people like to label me an introvert because I enjoy solitude and often do things alone. But I don't actually find socializing that 'draining.' (I certainly don't find it energizing either though.)


FWIW, I mistyped as an INFP for _ages_. I saw no Ni in me at first, let alone figure I was a Thinker! INTJs actually kinda scared me back then, and I'm still not fond of the online INTJ "community" as a whole. I can relate to their experiences, but not their behavior.

Anyway, do you think you're an introvert or an extrovert? It's true that the majority of extroverts like socializing and the majority of introverts like their alone time, but there are definitely those that don't fit the mold. All E/I means is that your first function is introverted or extroverted.



> And as for the Enneagram, I don't want to relate to any of them. The Enneagram 6 is the most appealing to me, I mean I think if I were to name the Enneagram I want to be, it would be 6. Smart enough to want to know the rules, independent enough to break them; loyal and security-oriented. The only real flaw I can see in a 6 is indecisiveness and perhaps a tendency to be co-dependent. Their 'fears' and phobias seem to me more like an active awareness of the dangers of this world, which is nothing I frown upon.


I... I think I'm going to tear up. The 6 is the scapegoat of the Enneagram, so it's great to hear someone say they _want_ to be a 6. Yay ^_^

Anyway, the enneagram is kinda made to point out our faults and tell us (how) to fix them. Some people find their type by finding out which profile hurts them the most, the one that points out all of their flaws. It's not a bad thing; if anything, I'd say it's fairly good as it provokes a person to think, "I want to be better than this."



Zoroark said:


> Do Enneagram 5w4s appreciate self-pitying arrogant Snowflakes? I'm missing something, hahah. (Perhaps they just do not oppose them so much, right?)


Well, I'm going to get flak for this because it's probably insulting, but the 4s and 5s are the most self-absorbed (withdrawn) types, the 4 is all about "uniqueness," and the 5 trusts little more than their mind, so in a way... Yeah, they appreciate those types of people, or _are _those types of people.

@babblingbrook, I understand what you're saying about this part, but it's important to note that not everything is projection  Zoroak would have to think about this and 'report back.'
About her stress, that kinda makes me think (again) 1w9 or 9w1. The 9 goes to 6, which means a sort of panic, then they often shut down. For 1, they connect to 4, so they have some sort of desire to be "special," but nothing near what other 4 or w4s do. 
I don't see a desire for power, simply a desire for a close someone to say, "Yes, you're a great person who is doing amazing things." When phrased _that_ way (though I admit it might be a misinterpretation), it sounds very 1ish, and 1 sx at that. I'll ask the sx 1s to see if this is true or not.
(Oh, and btw, a 6 would _love _compliments from someone they respect, it's like a drug. )

Tbh, this can't totally be solved with the information on hand, since it's an MBTI-based survey. PerC really needs an Enneagram-based survey... I've made up a little one, but it's nothing like the one here  Needs a lot of tweaking and adding to, but for use anyway:

- Has there been a time in your life when you've been _really _stressed? What happened, how did you react, how did you feel?
- What do you do if a person challenges your knowledge, viewpoint, and/or values?
- Do you feel shame, anger, or fear most often? Describe how you avoid these emotions.
- What is your identity to you? (Purposely vague)
- How do you present yourself to others?

Alternatively, if you want to just focus on your MBTI in here, there's an Enneagram "What's My Type" form available.


----------



## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

> FWIW, I mistyped as an INFP for ages. I saw no Ni in me at first, let alone figure I was a Thinker!


I swear there is some algorithm or rite of passage that dictates that all introverts have to type as INFP first before learning their true types. It's crazy, you see people who are CLEARLY not INFP (some of them actually extraverts) swearing up and down they are INFP. I don't know if its just a trendy, cultural phenomenon, or they see INFP as hip or cool but its crazy.


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

@Paradigm
I'm not too fond of the overall INTJ community on the internet either. And honestly, I read up on the whole "INTJ death stare" thing, and I've seen pictures. Looks like a bunch of stoners that are about to pass out, doesn't scare me at all. XD

And I think I am a X. I seriously do not have much a preference. I suppose I would lean towards introverted because I don't like crowds, I think before I speak, and I don't like being the center of attention around unfamiliar people. 
However, I'm rather open, like an extrovert. You ask me something, I'll give you an honest answer. And though I think before I speak, I have no issue speaking my mind. And I love physical affection, I like holding people and cuddling. 

And please, spare me of the tears. I didn't know the 6 was the Enneagram scapegoat. I think 6's are the most admirable type, do people often think otherwise? I've heard it was a common type, but honestly I think I've seen more 4w3's and 3w2's floating around in my life. 

And I think "I want to be better than this" about the 2, 3, and 4.

My mother is a 2. She thinks she's helping people when she's really an overbearing, possessive, passive aggressive, smothering bitch. 

This girl I know is a 3. Talk about a sense of entitlement. And she has a strong 4 wing. She passively seeks out compliments about her writing from people, and tries to put down other people's writing by either not commenting on it or pointing out barely-existent flaws.

And 4's have the self-pitying arrogant Snowflake shit going on. I swear to God, almost every 4 I have observed on the internet (not so much on this website as on others) type themselves as a INFJ. I wondered if it was just a common MBTI for the Enneagram 4.. And then it hit me. INFJ's are supposed to be the rarest personality type. So, of course, a 4 would decide they were one because they want to feel like a rare, special Snowflake. 

But I seriously do not relate to a 2,3, or 4.

*- Has there been a time in your life when you've been really stressed? What happened, how did you react, how did you feel?*
There's been times when I get really stressed, I can't recall anything in particular. 
I was at a constant state of stress in the 5th grade because I had an on-going UTI for 3 months. Pretty much my lower stomach ached and my urethra burned constantly and I had to pee every 20 minutes. I sucked it up and went to school but I would space out at school to try to disconnect from my body and all the pain. My grades started falling and my mother was screaming at me when I went home. So I went in my room, brooded for awhile, tried to do my homework (but was too nervous to focus) and eventually gave up and spaced out until I fell asleep. 

*- What do you do if a person challenges your knowledge, viewpoint, and/or values?*
I welcome a challenge. I feel rather insulted when a stupid person tries to challenge me with empty criticizing critiques, but when a more competent person challenges me, I'm like 'bring it on.' 

*- Do you feel shame, anger, or fear most often? Describe how you avoid these emotions.*
I feel all three about equally. I suppose I feel anger most often, but my mother says anger is always a guise for either fear or shame. So I suppose I feel them all equally.
I don't really avoid them. When my anger comes, I let it fester. Someone provokes me? It blows over. 
It's like..
If you're going to play will fire, you're going to get burned. If you notice me angry, don't aggravate. Or I will blow up, and you will get hurt.

*- What is your identity to you? (Purposely vague)*
Everything. If I don't have an identity, what am I?

*- How do you present yourself to others?*
I don't really know how to explain this.
I present my physical being in a way that I feel reflects who I am. I know this is going to make me sound like a freak, but I don't wear any clothing colors but black, white and red (sometimes my clothes might have small accents of other colors, like my cherry sweater has green cherry stems on it.) Black, white and red are just what I identify with. And it's not that they are my favorite colors, because they aren't. My favorite color is indigo. When I wear other colors, I feel like I'm wearing a disguise and when people are looking at me through their physical eye, they aren't seeing me. I guess that's pretty pathetic, but it's the truth. I do not feel comfortable in other colors and I want to be comfortable. Sometimes I feel okay in pink, but probably because pink is a shade of red. (fyi, I wear whatever color of underwear and pajamas, I feel fine in them.)

And as far as how I communicate with others..
I don't generally start conversations. You ask me something, I'll answer.
I don't generally start fights. You throw a punch, I throw you back a harder one.
I don't generally give out compliments. You compliment my hair, I'll compliment yours back if it looks nice. (Or not if it doesn't.) 
I don't generally say please, thank you, bless you, or excuse me. You hand me a pencil I take, it, you give me a compliment I nod or throw one back if deserved, you sneeze I tell you to cover your mouth, I walk by you and bump into you silently.


----------



## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

You are SUCH an INTJ it's not even funny. You must've just written like ten Inferior-Se giveaways. 



> I don't generally give out compliments. You compliment my hair, I'll compliment yours back if it looks nice. (Or not if it doesn't.)


and this is probably not Fe.



> nd then it hit me. INFJ's are supposed to be the rarest personality type. So, of course, a 4 would decide they were one because they want to feel like a rare, special Snowflake.


I dont believe this nonsense. INFJs are rare only because Kiersay said their rare. So now everyone buys into this nonsense that hasn't ever been empirically tested or validated. And I think you're right it's cool to want to be unique. But the more I'm on this site the more I see mistyped INFJs wanting to be INFPs or INTPs or something else. Or other types wanting to be INFJs and its like "dude you're ESTP WTF."


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

LiquidLight said:


> You are SUCH an INTJ it's not even funny. You must've just written like ten Inferior-Se giveaways.
> 
> 
> and this is probably not Fe.
> ...


Alright then.

And I that is why I said 'supposed to be the rarest' because I don't know how accurate the percentages of personality types stated are. I have no idea who Kiersay is, I'm going to look them up. 
And that is very interesting, I wonder why that that is. It doesn't seem to me that someone who truly was an INFJ would think they are something else. Or do you mean people who have mistyped as an INFJ began to want to be something else like an INTP or INFP? I don't think I've ever come across an ESTP who wanted to be a INFJ, but I have a theory as to why one might.

Say an ESTP is absolutely disgusted with her true self and tries to avoid facing who she is. To further assist her avoidance, she might try to force herself to fit the INFJ because it is the exact opposite of who she really is.


----------



## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Kiersey was/is a psychologist/author who authored two famous books called "_Please Understand Me_" in the 1970s. He basically took MBTI and combined it with temperament theory to popularize the Jungian movement. So the terms NF, SJ, EP, NT, rational, artisan, etc are based on Kiersey's methodologies. He took Hippocrates (and those who came after) four temperaments and applied them to MBTI to create the four subgroups. This is why people say stuff like _"I know I'm an NT because x"_. They don't realize that functionally this doesn't make sense. An ENTP is actually closer to an NF and an INFJ is closer to an NT by function. What they are actually referring to is Kiersey temperament designations. Much of what Kiersey concluded might hold some validity, its just much of his research has become more urban legend these days (like the percentages of certain types) than based on his or anyone else's actual data. He's become something of a pop personality theorist, though if you read his actual writing there's some decent stuff there. (If you go on Chemistry.com, for example, the personality test they give you is very similar to Kiersey's and it arranges people into four similar temperament subgroups).



> Or do you mean people who have mistyped as an INFJ began to want to be something else like an INTP or INFP? I don't think I've ever come across an ESTP who wanted to be a INFJ, but I have a theory as to why one might.


These forums are weird places because they're overrun with introverts (mostly young and still developing) and many of them are looking for some sense of affiliation or belonging as they develop. INTPCentral is notorious for its cliquishness, even though many of those people are probably mistyped. Same goes with this site. Most of the people in INFP forum are not INFPs (if you believe Kiersey percentages the frequency of INFP and INTPs would have to be a statistical outlier, or those types are specifically drawn to these types of forums.) 

Much of the information on the internet is either wrong or misleading, especially to people who only have a rudimentary understanding of this stuff. So I notice a tendency for people to come on here swearing up and down they are an NT for example (because they think they're logical and NT's are the 'thinkers') and who get defiant when you tell them they exude lots of Se and Fe and couldn't possibly be an NT. So they masquerade as a type they think is 'coolest' to their sensibilities, or the one they most often test as (not realizing the test is only as good as your input is honest and accurate). So instead people want to believe that they are somehow INxP, which is functionally impossible (and that person is likely INFJ anyway). I think on these personality forums its trendy to be an INFP (true INFPs dont seem to see it this way and true INTP's rarely mistake themselves for being NFs). And then the re-testing and re-testing begins to solidify a way of thinking that was off to begin with. Having someone else type you may not always be accurate (it depends on the knowledge and interpersonal awareness of the one typing you so choose wisely) but it can be enlightening by allowing someone to see something in you that may be obvious to an observer but not to you (like my pointing out your predilection for inferior-Se-esque behavior). This is common with extraverts who think they're introverts (Te & Ne-doms most commonly).



> Say an ESTP is absolutely disgusted with her true self and tries to avoid facing who she is. To further assist her avoidance, she might try to force herself to fit the INFJ because it is the exact opposite of who she really is.


They'd be a really fucked up ESTP. It's kinda like a man trying to imitate a woman. It's always going to look like a man imitating a woman because he really has no real frame of reference for how to actually _be_ a woman. It's all just his conception of what he thinks a woman acts like. An ESTP trying to be an INFJ is probably someone who has major issues with their inferior-Ni and his more dominant functions haven't yielded a solution for him to deal with it in a way that's more comfortable. Most people when under stress will fall back on their hero dominant function -- path of least resistance -- but Jung alludes that there is a point where someone feels they have nothing to loose where they might consider their inferior, because its so different from how they normally act, and this always leads to disaster because the inferior is too raw and unpolished (archaic is his term) to be used for ego identity. But I do think ESTP might secretly yearn to be more INFJ-like, just as INxJs often yearn to be more ESP-like. INJs sometimes really wish they could indulge their inferior-Se mindset (and it comes out under a lot of stress) but its always raw and awkward and cannot be sustained very long without major mental exhaustion.

The thing about Enneagram and MBTI is that any Jungian type can be any Enneagram number. When we're attempting to draw parallels between the two theories what we're talking about are tendencies and likelihood. It's not impossible for an INFP 7 or an ESFP 4, for example (at least not in terms of functions), but its just highly unlikely.


----------



## bamboozle (Sep 3, 2011)

I feel that you're not quite grasping the bigger picture here about the motivations. If you mean only to negate the details of what I put forward, then we won't get anywhere. 

You did make some points here, though: 



> Perhaps it has something to do with image, but everyone has an image type in their triad, so why not?
> I don't think I have to perform externally for people for people to grasp and understand me. Obviously there are certain things that are never, ever going to be grasped about a person by physical appearance. In fact, I don't even really 'perform' it at all. It's a reflection of how I think on the inside, it's not a performance, it's not an act. It's trying to convey me in physically to the best of my ability.


Well, yes. Everyone has an image type. But I don't know if the other Enneatypes actually feel the need to do what you do, unless they're a core image-type. If we were to make that argument, we could just as equally say that all people with core enneatypes also have all other enneatypes in them. That's how the theory works, isn't it? The idea is that we all have preferences, though. To me, what you do suggests a strong preference.

When I said 'perform', I did not also mean 'inauthentic.' I simply meant that not everyone feels the need to express themselves visually, even if they do acknowledge the existence of first impressions, etc. Other people seem fine with wearing other colours that have nothing to do with expressing their identity. Why not? Why do you feel compelled to do it? Why idea(l) are you trying to reach by doing what you do? You don't have to say so here. But they may be questions worth thinking about anyway.


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

@Paradigm 
I'd rather be a type I hate than lie to myself. I just don't think I'm a type 3.
I'm not even being defensive, I'm just debating my point and side and I came off as rude because I was tired and irritated (for reasons besides this thread) last night/this morning.

I don't think I am either. I'm honestly no type of this big fucking hell star. The Enneagram is a bloody endless loop. I have the childhood of an 8, the disintegration point of a 3, the overall behavior of a 5, 1, 8 and apparently 3, and probably the integration point of a 5. I looked at the tritype descriptions and none of what I consider to be a possibility fits me, so my whole person isn't a merge of my tritype. 
The only thing I could think of is the possibility of being a 6 because it seems that basic personality traits from all types can generally co-exist with a 6. 

@bamboozle
Well than please, Bamboozle, elaborate to me the big picture in a way you think I might grasp better.

And I thought everyone did have a bit of all Enneatypes, and the ones in your tritype were just your most dominant of each group..? Couldn't the most dominant of each group have a large impact on us in certain ways? I don't know.

Well that's interesting because everyone I know who has realization of judgement and first impressions does something about their appearance, but just not as strictly as me. But that could be, perhaps, because they aren't as limited as me in expressing themselves. And, I get your point about wearing colors that don't reflect their identity, but they still have preference in clothing color, and they generally do exclude a few colors from their clothing (for example, my friend wears most colors but refuses to wear any autumn colors like forest green, burnt orange, dijon yellow and so on) and I think this might have to do with the fact that they don't have a good idea of who they are specifically, but they certainly know who they are not and what they don't identify with. Don't you get what I mean? And I thought I already told you why I felt compelled to do it. I feel uncomfortable and as if I'm wearing a disguise if I do not dress according to myself. And I'm not really trying to reach any idea. I'm trying to make myself feel comfortable and as if I am myself. I know you said I didn't have to answer those questions here, but I felt it might be helpful.


----------



## bamboozle (Sep 3, 2011)

> Well than please, Bamboozle, elaborate to me the big picture in a way you think I might grasp better.


I think you had better hear about it from someone else. I'm obviously not doing a very good job of it. 



> And I thought everyone did have a bit of all Enneatypes, and the ones in your tritype were just your most dominant of each group..? Couldn't the most dominant of each group have a large impact on us in certain ways? I don't know.


There are schools of thought that don't think the tritype or trifix is useful and that your core type is all you need. Even some people who think that the tritype _is_ useful only see the other two types as feeding your core. So, it does not seem to be so much a case of 'you show aspects of all three types' as 'you are mainly one type, but we manifest that type differently.' 

But I could be wrong. 

If the above were correct, though, you would essentially need to demonstrate that the way you talk about identity feeds some type-need other than an image type. 



> Well that's interesting because everyone I know who has realization of judgement and first impressions does something about their appearance, but just not as strictly as me. But that could be, perhaps, because they aren't as limited as me in expressing themselves. And, I get your point about wearing colors that don't reflect their identity, but they still have preference in clothing color, and they generally do exclude a few colors from their clothing (for example, my friend wears most colors but refuses to wear any autumn colors like forest green, burnt orange, dijon yellow and so on) and I think this might have to do with the fact that they don't have a good idea of who they are specifically, but they certainly know who they are not and what they don't identify with. Don't you get what I mean? And I thought I already told you why I felt compelled to do it. I feel uncomfortable and as if I'm wearing a disguise if I do not dress according to myself. And I'm not really trying to reach any idea. I'm trying to make myself feel comfortable and as if I am myself. I know you said I didn't have to answer those questions here, but I felt it might be helpful.


You did say why but only partly. To answer the question completely, you would need to be able to answer why you feel uncomfortable in the first place. You say it's because it would be a 'disguise'; you would be hiding your identity; because it wouldn't be an authentic representation. But so what? Are these things important to you? Why are they important to you? What if someone doesn't know what black, white and red represents? What if someone had no idea what you were trying to say? Would that upset you? 

Do you think people _should_ have a better idea of who they are? 

Finally, if we are to go by the logic of the Enneagram, not all types would be fixed on their identity like this. For example, the 2s are an image type. But they build their identity and image through action. Do you think this colour-identity idea would make sense to them? The 7s want to experience life. Do you think identifying themselves by colour would be help them very much in their experience of life? 5s want to learn about the world. Will the colour of their shirt help? Basically, even if everyone other type refuses to wear this or that colour, it's not going to be that big a preoccupation by the logic of the Enneagram simply because identity is, by the definition of the Enneagram, not relevant to their main motivations. Would you agree?


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Bamboozle, you are absolutely right about how the trifix/tri type works, and yes, in some ways, we have certain characteristics of other types because they are reflective of the human condition. However, the core type - the root of one's motivations and what one avoids/fears- is not a conglomeration of common traits. So, your assertions and observations are sound.

Zoroark, you will need to skip the childhood descriptions part in so far as you are using it as a type determinant. There are overlaps between these emotional origins of each type description that can muddy the picture. I have the childhood of an 8, so to speak. I have the direction of integration of an 8, the preoccupation with collecting knowledge like a 5 and the disintegration pattern of a 3 and so on. The directions of integration/disintegration aren't the best tool for discerning core type. You need to get to the bottom of your motivations and fears, and you need to honestly see your preoccupation with 'expressing yourself externally' for what it is. That is NOT a five concern. There are other points that I will address in a bit.

Anyway, another thing you have to keep in mind is to tone down the defensiveness and condescension. It's unnecessary and a bit of a distraction. I enjoy debates, but finding your core type is a "process" not a contest where you need to prove yourself. I welcome disagreements, questions and queries, so express away. Just know that no one here is personally invested in your type. People are offering you resources, insights and time to help *you* with the process. So, keep an open mind and be patient.

P.S. Don't bother with the tritype descriptions until you have figured out your core type. Those descriptions are too convoluted to be helpful at this stage in your typing process. I am working on a lengthier reply.

P.P.S. Check PM. Respond to these:

(1)
_
What do you do if a person challenges your knowledge, viewpoint, and/or values?_
I welcome a challenge. I feel rather insulted when a stupid person tries to challenge me with empty criticizing critiques, but when a more competent person challenges me, I'm like 'bring it on.'
*
Response: *
•	This is strange. How can a stupid (dumb, incompetent) person manage to insult you? Explain the dynamic. I understand (very well, in fact) enjoying being challenged by someone competent—it’s an opportunity to improve one’s own skills. It is silly when a ‘stupid’ person tries to challenge someone. I want to understand why you find it insulting, of all things. Most people would find it annoying or aggravating..but insulting is a curious term here. Interesting point. 


_ _ _ _
(2)

_- Do you feel shame, anger, or fear most often? Describe how you avoid these emotions_.
I feel all three about equally. I suppose I feel anger most often, but my mother says anger is always a guise for either fear or shame. So I suppose I feel them all equally.
I don't really avoid them. When my anger comes, I let it fester. Someone provokes me? It blows over. 
It's like..
If you're going to play will fire, you're going to get burned. If you notice me angry, don't aggravate. Or I will blow up, and you will get hurt.

*Response:*
•	This is a very important answer. You need to look deeper into yourself and tell me what truly causes your anger-
o Is it shame? Do you tend to feel anger when someone makes you feel incompetent or tries to diminish your self-worth?
o	Is it fear? Do you feel angry when you feel threatened? Do you feel like you become more arrogant or more reactive when you are inwardly afraid/threatened?
o	Is it sadness?( Suppression of this emotion)

Answer this in-depth.


----------



## albino mallato (Sep 20, 2011)

i want you so bad


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

@hazelwitch
I feel insulted because I think something like "Wow, does that person actually think I'm as stupid as him/her? They think they have a right to critique me with empty critisism? That's insulting." I guess I think it's insulting because the person actually thinks they are in the position to put me down with their meaningless idiocy. It's just insulting. 

_o Is it shame? Do you tend to feel anger when someone makes you feel incompetent or tries to diminish your self-worth?_
I feel irritated and sometimes frustrated when I feel incompetent, but I don't think that's my real anger, and it's not shame.. At least, I don't feel ashamed.
When someone tries to diminish my self worth, I shrug it off because their attempt is failure. It's not going to diminish my self-worth if I identify that it is exactly what the person is trying to do. It's irritating, but whatever.

_o	Is it fear? Do you feel angry when you feel threatened? Do you feel like you become more arrogant or more reactive when you are inwardly afraid/threatened?_
I get angry when someone attempts to threaten me. It's a waste of our time and it's annoying.
When I actually do feel threatened, I get physical. It's not so much anger running through my head, but how to protect myself and whoever else I care about that is being threatened. 
I don't really see how that is fear though, I don't really feel scared.. 
And no, I don't get more arrogant. I get more physically reactive, I guess.

_o	Is it sadness?( Suppression of this emotion)_ I don't think so.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Zoroark said:


> @hazelwitch
> I feel insulted because I think something like "Wow, does that person actually think I'm as stupid as him/her? They think they have a right to critique me with empty critisism? That's insulting." I guess I think it's insulting because the person actually thinks they are in the position to put me down with their meaningless idiocy. It's just insulting.


Now, I understand what you meant. Thanks. 



Zoroark said:


> _o Is it shame? Do you tend to feel anger when someone makes you feel incompetent or tries to diminish your self-worth?_
> *I feel irritated and sometimes frustrated when I feel incompetent*, *but I don't think that's my real anger, and it's not shame.. At least, I don't feel ashamed.*
> When someone tries to diminish my self worth, I shrug it off because their attempt is failure. It's not going to diminish my self-worth if I identify that it is exactly what the person is trying to do. It's irritating, but whatever.
> 
> ...



The bolded heavily points to core 6, 6w5 in particular. It's important not to get side-tracked by the word "Fear" . It can also be understood as an " acute awareness of something off in the environment". Between PMs and going over your thread in some depth, I can say that 6w5 is your type. Your tri-type is 6w5-8w9-3w4. The order of the last two may be switched. Your stacking is likely sx/sp. We could discuss this evaluation further if you want


----------



## Zoroark (Nov 4, 2011)

albino mallato said:


> i want you so bad


... What? XD

@hazelwitch
I PMed you, I think that's pretty much it. I accept your conclusion.


----------



## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I know that was a weird comment by albino. 

Well, I just sent you a reply. I am glad it's settled


----------

