# A Song of Ice and Fire



## RedDeath9 (Apr 22, 2010)

This series is a must-read for any fan of fantasy. I cannot even describe how awesome these books are. They are just... unforgiving. If you've read them, you know what I mean.

Any fans here?


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## milkinbags (May 21, 2010)

This has been on my list of 'To Read' for a long time now. I'm not a big fantasy reader (I don't think I've read any since I was about 16), but I've heard amazing things about this series from loads of people. I'm really interested to know what it's all about. 

But tell me, as a fantasy fan (I'm assuming you are one), how does it stand above and beyond its competitors? Is it the writer's style, the story/plot, or subject matter/themes it deals with that particularly stick out? I know it's got to be a combination of all those and more, but what from them, would you say, makes these books stand apart from others?


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## RedDeath9 (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm not a HUGE fantasy fan. The only 'true' fantasies I've read are Wheel of Time and this. I'm a bigger science fiction fan. I guess I don't really bother with most fantasy because it's such a hard genre to be original in. (That, and I can't find the goddamn fantasy books that I want.)

The author's writing style... It's been a long time, so I can't exactly remember what his style is like. For instance, Robert Jordan (author of most of the WoT books) has a very descriptive style. I can't really say anything about George RR Martin's style.

The story is amazing, and I'm not sure if I can describe this well, either. There are no real 'good' or 'bad' guys, just several factions fighting for their own reasons. For instance, at this point, I don't even care which faction 'wins', I just care about certain characters independently. (although, there are some factions which I want to see lose. Lose everything.)

Eh, can't finish right now.

EDIT: OK. Continuing with the story, the only read 'bad' guys are the Others. Pretty much scary zombie-type things that a lot of people believe to be just myths.

Subject matter/themes... There is a lot of political intrigue, treachery, military stuff, amazing characters. What I meant by 'unforgiving' in my original post was that, if a character makes a mistake, they are about as good as dead. There is no place for epic heroes and honor. If you're honorable, you're probably going to get fucked over.

So in essence, I guess the thing that stands out most is the _realism _of the series. Anything can happen, to any character.



> Critics have described Martin's work as dark and cynical.His first novel, _Dying of the Light_, set the tone for most of his future work; it is set on a mostly abandoned planet that is slowly becoming uninhabitable as it moves away from its sun. This story, and many of Martin's others, have a strong sense of melancholy. His characters are often unhappy, or at least unsatisfied - trying to stay idealistic in a ruthless world. Many have elements of tragic heroes in them. Reviewer T. M. Wagner writes, "Let it never be said Martin doesn't share Shakespeare's fondness for the senselessly tragic." This gloominess can be an obstacle for some readers. The Inchoatus Group writes, "If this absence of joy is going to trouble you, or you’re looking for something more affirming, then you should probably seek elsewhere."
> 
> Martin's characters are multi-faceted, each with surprisingly intricate pasts, inspirations, and ambitions. _Publisher's Weekly_ writes of his on-going epic fantasy _A Song of Ice and Fire_ "The complexity of characters such as Daenarys [sic], Arya and the Kingslayer will keep readers turning even the vast number of pages contained in this volume, for the author, like Tolkien or Jordan, makes us care about their fates." No one is given an unrealistic string of luck, however, so misfortune, injury, and death (and even false death) can befall _any_ character, major or minor, no matter how attached the reader has become. Martin has described his penchant for killing off important characters as being necessary for the story's depth: "...when my characters are in danger, I want you to be afraid to turn the page, (so) you need to show right from the beginning that you're playing for keeps."


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## krwheel (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm not a fantasy person myself, but I've read the four that Martin has put out so far in this series. He needs to hurry up and get Dragons done!!!!! I'm dying!!

I think he had a very good way of getting you involved with many different character perspectives, so you actually relate to the characters, they aren't just people you're watching a story unfold about. Also, his world is very vast, and you really get a sense of that, but you follow characters in different places so you really know what's going on in this vast world. Martin also is more than willing to do things you aren't expecting. The fantasy also is kinda slowly brought in, so it just feels like normal people at first and slowly magical things creep into the series and take you down paths you didn't see coming. Love the series, but Martin needs to get the next book out ASAP.


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## Flute (May 26, 2010)

They are fantastic books. I got through each in like 3 days apiece because I couldn't put them down. I can't wait for book five to come out, but at the same time I'm bummed that we won't get to find out what happens with the book four cliffhangers until book six. Ah well. 

I wish he'd hurry up with book five. It's been, what, like four or five years? I know the books are massive, but still....


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## Lystac (May 27, 2010)

I found that in Martin's book the switch between multiple characters annoying, and on page 70, I still didn't know what the story was about. I like stories more like In the name of the wind, based upon one character, his tragedy and those that he meets through his point of view. This lets the author focus more on emotion, an intimate bond between reader and character.This set up is even an entry way for realism and grit that may be forced on the character. In the books with multiple characters, I find that each character lacks that intimate feel, and that the plot may focus more upon politics.


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## Ninja Nem (Oct 19, 2008)

I tried to read these but the prologue in the first one was painfully boring and I wanted to throw it against the wall. Nothing was happening. I found something better to read.


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## krwheel (Dec 5, 2008)

Lystac said:


> I found that in Martin's book the switch between multiple characters annoying, and on page 70, I still didn't know what the story was about. I like stories more like In the name of the wind, based upon one character, his tragedy and those that he meets through his point of view. This lets the author focus more on emotion, an intimate bond between reader and character.This set up is even an entry way for realism and grit that may be forced on the character. In the books with multiple characters, I find that each character lacks that intimate feel, and that the plot may focus more upon politics.


I can see feeling disconnected from the emotion a bit, but what I like is that Martin has a way of giving you a feel for each particular character from who's perspective he tells the story. In fact, he adds character perspectives with each book and I found myself sympathizing with characters I hated in the first book. That's amazing work! It does admittedly take longer to develop the personal relationship with the characters, but I think it makes for a much stronger story line for a series and keeps the reader's interest. It also protects the mystery, because no character is safe from the sword.



Ninja Nem said:


> I tried to read these but the prologue in the first one was painfully boring and I wanted to throw it against the wall. Nothing was happening. I found something better to read.


You didn't happen to find a Nora Roberts novel for your more-to-the-point thrill did you?


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## Ninja Nem (Oct 19, 2008)

krwheel said:


> You didn't happen to find a Nora Roberts novel for your more-to-the-point thrill did you?


Yes, that's very funny. I don't read those kinds of frilly romantic grocery store novels. I don't remember what I read instead. If the book I'm reading doesn't gain my interest in the first ten pages or so then I pick something else.


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## Stand Alone (Apr 25, 2009)

The series is pretty much the pinnacle of the genre.


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## krwheel (Dec 5, 2008)

Ninja Nem said:


> Yes, that's very funny. I don't read those kinds of frilly romantic grocery store novels. I don't remember what I read instead. If the book I'm reading doesn't gain my interest in the first ten pages or so then I pick something else.


I hope you know I was just joking. I can understand if Game of Thrones didn't catch your fancy. To each their own.


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## The Crimson Angel (Dec 26, 2010)

This is my favorite book series by far. The way in which GRRM splits the story into different POV characters really allows you a wide view of the different sides, versus just a "black vs white" fantasy novel. Very graphic when it comes to the violence and the smexy time, but if you don't mind that, I'd highly recommend this book series to anyone.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

I haven't read them yet, but I've learned about them from TV Tropes. They sound excellent and subversive.


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## Ventricity (Mar 30, 2009)

the books are character driven, and as such they are very dramatic and is similar to tv soaps in many ways. they are very engrossing because you want to find out what happens to all the characters and houses. the problem is that the books are very thin on story. the first book is fine, it is well structured, but then the series takes off in all directions and the overall story never really moves forward, coming to a deadend in the latest book(it's a mess). i can see that george martin will have problems with closure. another thing i don't like is that because it's all about the characters and social settings of power, i can't help but feel that alot of the stuff that goes on has no real planning behind them, save for certain plot points like deaths. some characters are simply superflous. that being said i like the superflous stuff for what it is, but i can't help but feel that i would have liked a richer world and lore to supplement it. i love the unsentimental approach and the characters, unlike robert jordan. a song of ice and fire is weak on imagination compared to some other writers, but he makes up for it in other areas.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

I picked up the first book a while ago but abandoned it before I got very far because of academic pressures. Would love to try it again. I love the idea of fantasy but have not read much of it because I have had a bad experience with Goodkind (those of you who have read him should know what I mean). I like Martin's approach of killing of major characters...might be painful but it makes the story much more suspenseful because you realize he means business. (I also love how he said he thought Gandalf should not have come back in Lord of the Rings. Don't know if I agree, but that cliche bothers me a lot because it's SO overused and just cheapens death in fantasy generally...I really want to read a fantasy series where the wizard/mentor STAYS dead!:tongue


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## UniqueFinallyAmongPeers (Jan 2, 2011)

Coming from someone who have read a lot of fantasy, or at least around a hundred books:

Game of Thrones is one of the better series that have been made. It's in my top ten, maybe top five if you give me enough time to think about it.
I've only read the first book though, so technically I can only talk about that one.
Believable characters, interesting environment, ambitious plotline (both a pro and a con).


However, nothing beats Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson. Best fantasy story I've _ever_ read. Period.
So I disagree with you, *Stand Alone*.
Sanderson is at the top, if anything's a pinnacle it's his Mistborn triology.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

I have to admit, while I think Martin is very good at creating story, I find his prose absolutely despicable. I cannot tell you how much I despise his writing style.

Thankfully, that's what the new adaptation is for. It gets rid of the one thing that ruined the books and keeps everything else. YAY for adaptations!


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