# On women approaching men...



## Stockholmaren (May 25, 2016)

ninjahitsawall said:


> So.. size varies with monitor dimensions and resolution?


You know what? I kinda regret typing in that penis. It reminds me of an insane puss destroyer. And I don't want @Catwalk to believe my penis will hurt anyone. So here's my real penis, it's supposed to be 17cm:

8===O

Edit: I just had a realization. The smaller the boobs are, the more I appreciate the nipples.


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## IDontThinkSo (Aug 24, 2011)

You aren't less successful than if you were a man approaching women. Welcome to the difficult world of hunting without looking awkward, stupid or suspicious. Some women are very good huntresses, some men are terrible hunters. It's your very personal issue. All hunters face the same challenge. Don't act as if your prey was easy to seduce. Because if they aren't seduced yet, it'll make things worse and the harder you try the more suspicious or conceited you look. If you assume we're an easy target, you'll botch the job anyways.


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## Tropes (Jul 7, 2016)

My experience goes both against and validates the OP:
On one hand, most of my relationships came from the other side approaching me.
On the other hand, most people approaching me are likely to get rejected.

The difference is in the build up. The approach doesn't happen in a vacuum. Usually there is already sexual tension, sometimes just flirting and sometimes with a basis of an existing friendship. Rejections don't happen in a vacuum either, I have a lot of redflags and it is very easy for me to assume the worst, but confidence in approach isn't one of them. I am not pretty enough for someone to want me without some degree of getting to know me though, so it's not quite in the range of getting approached by strangers in a bar or people playing the numbers game.


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## Impavida (Dec 29, 2011)

I just want to make clear again, this thread wasn't a call for advice or meant to focus on my personal experiences. I'm currently juggling multiple men. Finding dates is not a problem for me...as long as I'm not the one doing the asking. Lol! 

***

There has been some interesting discussion so far. I tend to agree with the school of thought that society, in general, isn't quite ready for women to be the pursuers. Men have been conditioned to chase, and it can throw them off when they suddenly become the prey. Obviously, there are plenty of individuals to whom this doesn't apply. 

I've found that there's a group of men who seem to think that women would have it easy if only they would approach men first, when really our chances are no better than theirs. It's humorous to me that there is such a large disconnect between the theory and the reality.


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## Dasein (Jun 11, 2015)

Impavida said:


> Do men perceive the woman taking charge as being confident? Or desperate? Discuss.


Not a all desperate. Although I've met very few women like this. I've had lots of women come on to me and flirt with me, but wanting me to pursue, so I wouldn't describe them as the "take-charge" women you are referring to. I like confident, take-charge women in general, but it still depends on their personality if I find myself attracted to them. 

I've had a few situations where women were more direct.

A young woman who worked at my company for only a few weeks, but later called me up to ask me out. She was in her early 20's and I was about 30. I knew who she was from work and although I wasn't highly attracted to her, I did agree to go out with her. Surprised by her call, I quickly decided that if she had the balls to ask me out, I'd agree. She told me that she had been attempting to flirt with me at work, but I had a lot of women flirting with me, most I don't take seriously and I really didn't take notice her at work much. (The date was a disaster from my perspective, but that was a different issue.) I didn't feel she was desperate at all in asking me out. But by the end of the actual date, I did feel she was a little desperate and was playing the "feel sorry for me" card.

In college I had a girl approach me out of the blue to join her in a threesome. She just came, sat at my table where I was having lunch and quickly directed the conversation to ask me if I would like to join her and a friend in a threesome. I disappointed myself, because she was cute, but I declined. But it was because the third partner was another guy and I wasn't sure what their expectations were. I'm totally straight. I should have ask more questions before declining to clarify what they were expecting.

Many women are looking for, or expecting dominant leaders in men. And while I have both a dominant and submissive side in the bedroom, socially I don't approach women as the dominant leader type. I'm looking for qualities of a woman as a partner, but women who are confident and take-charge in their life are attractive.


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## kaleidoscope (Jan 19, 2012)

What about situations where we are both approaching or 'hunting' each other at the same time? Those tend to be the situations I end up in, and that feel the most natural to me. Even if it's through online dating, he might initiate the message - and I've initiated my fair share of messages - I'm just as active in demonstrating interest, asking for (or giving) phone numbers, suggesting we go out for a date, following up afterwards. I even initiated kissing. I don't want to sit back and wait for him to go through those motions because he 'has' to, it is incredibly boring. So I tend to really see it as more of a middle ground, rather than the girl or the guy doing all the work. 

Does anyone relate to that at all?


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

Poizon said:


> I think the issue is that this whole "woman ask first" thing is so new to the point where, in general, women don't know how to do it right or aren't meant to do it in the first place.
> A lot of women take on the role of the hunter, ask a guy out, and then expect the man to just magically take the lead after that. That's not how it works. When a man asks you out, do you think he expects you to just set the pace from now on? No.
> 
> It's go hard or go home. When you ask out a guy, you're willingly putting yourself in the driver seat. Not like what women are traditionally used to. If the modern woman wants to get ahead in the dating game in a world where women are increasingly becoming like men, they need to either accept the responsibilities that come with that kind of power or simply wait for their prince charming to just show up like women have had to.
> ...


Talk for yourself. 

Just because a woman dares to ask a man out doesn't mean she's becoming more like a man. It's an expression of interest. If only we could get past this stupid gender stereotyping...


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

TheSonderer said:


> I only had one date since my divorce and it was her who made the first move. I wasn't put off by that at all, in fact I was very flattered. But that's just one man's opinion.


totally off topic, but I totally thought you were like 17 :shocked:
not an insult, you just have a young-ish vibe for some reason


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

unless there are tangible consequences, life is too short to give a damn about social conventions when they stand in the way of something as important as love. 

my advice, if you like someone, ask them out. if you keep getting rejected by people, learn how to dress better, be more seductive, work out and get better social skills. you'll snare one eventually. the whole ethos of sitting passively and waiting for Mr or Mrs Perfect to come along is one I find complete and utter bullshit.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Approaching guys has worked out well for me. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. I tend to approach playfully, never really acting desperate for dat dick... What a shitty thing to be desperate for, right? My casual "no expectations" approach seems to make men feel comfortable and open. I think I'm also less intimidating at first glance because I'm pretty damn chunky. I think it works to my advantage, plus I know I'm not likely to be engaging with a super shallow prick if things do end up progressing. What's meant to curse you will bless you


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## Zeta Neprok (Jul 27, 2010)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> totally off topic, but I totally thought you were like 17 :shocked:
> not an insult, you just have a young-ish vibe for some reason


I'm in my 30's. It's good to know that I'm still youthful though (last time I bought beer I was carded).

On topic: I do wish that more women would be willing to make the move, but reading the OP made me realize that it's not that simple. I can understand why some women wouldn't feel comfortable with that especially given the OP's experience.


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

Aridela said:


> Talk for yourself.
> 
> Just because a woman dares to ask a man out doesn't mean she's becoming more like a man. It's an expression of interest. If only we could get past this stupid gender stereotyping...


Not literally becoming more like a man but taking on more of a man's role. Traditionally of course. You know what the traditional roles are and all the hardships of both sides of the spectrum. When you take on a specific role, it is up to you to deal with the responsibilities that come with it.

but you didn't argue against that, you just saw the "women becoming more like men" part and flipped.


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## Eren Jaegerbomb (Nov 13, 2015)

Sooo... There's this person at work I like. Obviously I talk to him sometimes, but I can't tell if he likes me or not, or just being polite: talking to other people at work. + He isn't 18.. yet. Should I wait til he's 18 or should I just ask him anyway? If he rejected me, wouldn't it just make things really awkward at work? I work with him twice a week.

Also, I don't really consider myself attractive, I don't know what type of girls he likes, but I'm definitely not someone people would awe over + I'm a little plumpy... I'm just thinking, if he liked me, would he have asked me out already? Mind you though, we don't really know eachother, just small talk here and there.


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## Zelz (Dec 29, 2014)

@OP

Sometimes, it's better to call things a hypothesis versus a theory. :wink:


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

Poizon said:


> Not literally becoming more like a man but taking on more of a man's role. Traditionally of course. You know what the traditional roles are and all the hardships of both sides of the spectrum. When you take on a specific role, it is up to you to deal with the responsibilities that come with it.
> 
> but you didn't argue against that, you just saw the "women becoming more like men" part and flipped.


Why would I flip about something like that? 

Some women do become more like men (see Mutter Merkel). But sending a frigging message online is hardly a 'manly' thing is what I'm saying. Hope that clarifies things.


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## Nuberschutze (Apr 11, 2015)

-- del --


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

Aridela said:


> Why would I flip about something like that?
> 
> Some women do become more like men (see Mutter Merkel). But sending a frigging message online is hardly a 'manly' thing is what I'm saying. Hope that clarifies things.


When you replied to my post, you specifically responded to that one part of my post rather than its entirety. That lead me to believe that was the only thing in my post you disagreed with.

Never said that sending a message online was a manly thing but ok.


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

Nuberschutze said:


> Women should ask men out when they're interested in them, and vice versa.
> I don't know about *all* of them, but some men are receptive. I've been asked before. I've also accepted before.
> The way it's perceived depends on the way it's attempted and on the person doing the perceiving. There's certainly nothing inherently desperate about it.
> 
> ...


All I'm saying is that if you ask someone out, you'd be stupid to make the assumption that the person you asked out is going to all of a sudden take the reins of the relationship and be the man. The evidence is in the OP. The OP put herself in a traditionally male role and was baffled at the fact that the men didn't switch with her so she could be in a submissive feminine role.


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## Nuberschutze (Apr 11, 2015)

-- del --


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm not sure if those men are in the majority (a lot of complaints I've seen are online, so even if they are, they're probably staring at screens). A lot seem to enjoy the chase and the "challenge", not to mention status that comes with successfully wooing women. Aside from that, I think it takes a "special" type of woman to, and many are the ones to have a "don't give a fuck attitude", which could turn men off (on top of also being seen as a "masculine" action). 

So yeah, just because someone says they want something, doesn't mean they do. A lot of roles are taken for granted, so when someone goes against them, even the most liberal or progressive person can have a "wtf?" reaction. They could also have something more specific in mind, but you have to take the good with the bad.

It does seem like women complain a lot more about rejection than men (socially encouraged?), even when doing less. Unfortunately, men don't have that "fall back option" of having women approach them. *shrugs*


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> I've approached guys before. Just walked up and shook their hand, introduced myself, and asked for their number. Worked for me. I didn't feel desperate, so don't see why anybody would see it as such. I have also initiated sexual encounters, and it has not been a problem. Granted, one time I kissed a guy and he didn't do anything. That sucked. But he told me later that I scared him and he was kicking himself the whole drive home later. Ha. We did date for a while after that. So, I donno.
> 
> I'm comfortable being both the pursuer and the pursued. Let's face it, even if I were playing the role of the pursued I'd still be orchestrating things, just in a more subtle way. I'd be sending signals and giving him opportunities to make a move. Sometimes it's nice to skip the nonsense and just go for it.


Yeah, but you're Canadian


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Yeah, but you're Canadian


So I'm... Extra... Polite?


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## septic tank (Jul 21, 2013)

I've been both the pursuer and the pursued. I don't have a preference, I do what the situation calls for.

I'm not going to limit myself to one role or the other because of traditional and modern ideologies.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> So I'm... Extra... Polite?


North American women don't have an... "ideal"? reputation the same way many men seem to think of those from places as South America, East Asia, and Mediterranean Europe do.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

WamphyriThrall said:


> North American women don't have an... "ideal"? reputation the same way many men seem to think of those from places as South America, East Asia, and Mediterranean Europe do.


I am not sure what you mean by that. It's more acceptable for North Anerican women to be the pursuers, you mean?


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> I am not sure what you mean by that. It's more acceptable for North Anerican women to be the pursuers, you mean?


No, I meant they tend to be viewed as more "masculine" in general (our societies are actually quite egalitarian, at least when compared to many other parts of the world). 

Not sure if that translates directly to more pursuers, though. Politeness tends to be appreciated by most people, though! I've yet to meet a man who says, "She's just tooo polite, you know?! I wish she'd just let one rip in front of me."


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

WamphyriThrall said:


> No, I meant they tend to be viewed as more "masculine" in general (our societies are actually quite egalitarian, at least when compared to many other parts of the world).
> 
> Not sure if that translates directly to more pursuers, though. Politeness tends to be appreciated by most people, though! I've yet to meet a man who says, "She's just tooo polite, you know?! I wish she'd just let one rip in front of me."


I can see being considered more masculine by other culture's standards. It hasn't deprived me of suitors here though. Or... actually in my travels, either. I received the most male attention in Nicaragua and in Scotland (to the point of being literally harassed daily on the street in both places). 

I don't really consider approaching men to be that masculine though. Call it... pragmatism. I sometimes feel like a tool batting my eyelashes and waiting for a man to approach me. Ain't nobody got time for that shit. 

One thing I could absolute _never_ do is catcall a guy though. Or slap him on the butt or something (if he were a stranger). That is crass behaviour from any sex.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> I can see being considered more masculine by other culture's standards. It hasn't deprived me of suitors here though. Or... actually in my travels, either. I received the most male attention in Nicaragua and in Scotland (to the point of being literally harassed daily on the street in both places).
> 
> I don't really consider approaching men to be that masculine though. Call it... pragmatism. I sometimes feel like a tool batting my eyelashes and waiting for a man to approach me. Ain't nobody got time for that shit.
> 
> One thing I could absolute _never_ do is catcall a guy though. Or slap him on the butt or something (if he were a stranger). That is crass behaviour from any sex.


Heh, what you consider "harass" there is just "boys being boys". Seriously, I think some (men and women) would be offended at you being offended! 

I wouldn't either, although it would fall under "traits I find attractive"... many of which aren't traditionally feminine. A lot of guys say Canadian men are "whipped", but I haven't seen enough to make that call.

Darn, I'm sure some men are disappointed :/


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Heh, what you consider "harass" there is just "boys being boys". Seriously, I think some (men and women) would be offended at you being offended!
> 
> I wouldn't either, although it would fall under "traits I find attractive"... many of which aren't traditionally feminine. A lot of guys say Canadian men are "whipped", but I haven't seen enough to make that call.
> 
> Darn, I'm sure some men are disappointed :/


I consider grabbing me in public, groping me, yelling profane things at me, and following me to be harassment... 

Not acceptable behaviour. At it's worst, one man licked my face, and another time four men surrounded me and tried to pressure me to get in their van.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> I consider grabbing me in public, groping me, yelling profane things at me, and following me to be harassment...
> 
> Not acceptable behaviour. At it's worst, one man licked my face, and another time four men surrounded me and tried to pressure me to get in their van.


Yep, but woman there seem resigned to it. Not that they enjoy it, but learn to shrug their shoulders and deal with it however they can. 

Once moving to the west, their perceptions change. Funny how moving can change a person in profound ways.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Yep, but woman there seem resigned to it. Not that they enjoy it, but learn to shrug their shoulders and deal with it however they can.
> 
> Once moving to the west, their perceptions change. Funny how moving can change a person in profound ways.


That's more or less what I did, didn't exactly call the cops on these guys. But I am not shy in setting boundaries. If nothing else, I will be treated with respect.

Unfortunately that backfired in Nicaragua. Telling the men to go fuck themselves only makes them double their efforts. It's pretty funny actually. You can get them really riled up this way.


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## septic tank (Jul 21, 2013)

In my experience being the pursuer helps root out the weirdos since you're selecting who to pursue. I find that to be a great bonus, since if your in the pursuee position you can't choose who pursues you, and then you might have to put up with obnoxious people.

However, the con to this is that whoever you pursue might not return your feelings, and it feels awful when they don't.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> That's more or less what I did, didn't exactly call the cops on these guys. But I am not shy in setting boundaries. If nothing else, I will be treated with respect.
> 
> Unfortunately that backfired in Nicaragua. Telling the men to go fuck themselves only makes them double their efforts. It's pretty funny actually. You can get them really riled up this way.


Martial arts is the way to go  A swift kick to the nuts should take care of them


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

I've found more often than not that men initiate just because they decide they're interested faster than I do.


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

Nuberschutze said:


> You might want to read that OP again. Your evidence appears to be ... missing.
> Neither did the OP imply that she made any such assumptions as the ones you're pushing on her in your posts.
> 
> As to evidence... I have been asked out by a woman before and then "taken the reins".
> ...


Personally, I agree with you in terms that a relationship should consist of two compatible people without clearly defined roles per say However I still believe there are roles regardless. Lets not deviate from reality because it sounds nicer to say "Yeah, we don't have roles in our relationship".
The very first steps in a relationship are the most important for this reason.
What assumptions are you referring to exactly?
She said

My personal experience** with taking on the role of hunter certainly doesn't support this theory. * In 20+ years of asking men out and making the first move, both in real life and online, I'm batting zero*. Not so much as a single pity date has come of it. My best result has been a handful of guys who responded to my messages online. Most were to say "not interested" but there were a couple of brief exchanges that fizzled quickly. When it comes to new relationships, every single date I've ever been on has been one that was initiated by the man.

Evidence that the woman asking the man out doesn't necessarily reap good results as some non-traditionals would suggest.

Maybe in the later steps of a relationship there may not be clearly defined roles and that makes sense due to the comfort-ability of the relationship but in the early stages it's most crucial that there's roles. Why? Because someone's got to move the relationship forward and set the pace. Who's job is it to do that? The hunter. You can't expect to ask someone out and then hope they take the reins but obviously, in your situation, you did. Which is obviously not impossible but due to the OP's experience, she hasn't had that reaction before from a man.


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## Stockholmaren (May 25, 2016)

Poizon said:


> Not literally becoming more like a man but taking on more of a man's role. Traditionally of course. You know what the traditional roles are and all the hardships of both sides of the spectrum. When you take on a specific role, it is up to you to deal with the responsibilities that come with it.
> 
> but you didn't argue against that, you just saw the "women becoming more like men" part and flipped.


That seem to be an outdated role you are talking about, don't you think?


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

Oddnet said:


> That seem to be an outdated role you are talking about, don't you think?


Honestly, I don't think it's outdated at all. When some people hear "traditional" they probably envision (The man has all the power over his submissive little woman and she must do everything he says because he makes the money and makes all the decisions himself etc.)

I'm simply talking about a dynamic. An initiator/hunter and the opposite. I believe it's not common to find someone be the hunter and all of a sudden turn into the opposite role so early in the relationship or even before it's started.

Would you ask a woman out for a date and then not initiate anything after that and expect her to come to you and ask you out on future dates, initiate text convos etc.?


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## Stockholmaren (May 25, 2016)

Poizon said:


> Honestly, I don't think it's outdated at all. When some people hear "traditional" they probably envision (The man has all the power over his submissive little woman and she must do everything he says because he makes the money and makes all the decisions himself etc.)
> 
> I'm simply talking about a dynamic. An initiator/hunter and the opposite. I believe it's not common to find someone be the hunter and all of a sudden turn into the opposite role so early in the relationship or even before it's started.
> 
> Would you ask a woman out for a date and then not initiate anything after that and expect her to come to you and ask you out on future dates, initiate text convos etc.?


Lol. Initiator/Hunter and its... prey? What is the opposite of Initiator/Hunter? Doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic of love.


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## Denature (Nov 6, 2015)

Oddnet said:


> Lol. Initiator/Hunter and its... prey? What is the opposite of Initiator/Hunter? Doesn't sound like a healthy dynamic of love.


lol I know. sounds horrible right? But some things in life are simply truth no matter how bad they may sound. I'll explain.

I've heard the "doesn't sound healthy" idea a lot.

Example,
Boy like girl,
girl doesn't notice boy at all,
He can 1. Attempt to make a move & get to know her (Aka be the hunter)
or 2. Hope that out of somewhere something will happen (Aka the opposite)
If he chooses to be the hunter then it will be up to him to keep things rolling in the beginning.
Same goes for girls in the hunter position.
After the relationship has begun and the people get more comfortable then roles start to get lot less defined.

Do you get it though? Someone has to keep the ball rolling and it's usually the one who's interested first, more involved etc. which is almost always the hunter in this case.

I don't think it's a complicated thing for people to understand, I think the whole semantics of it all triggers people and puts a bad image in their mind hence the people disagreeing.

I think people just read,
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *roles* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah *hunter* blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
and then proceed to base their ideas on how my ideas make them feel rather than analyzing the idea.


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## Stockholmaren (May 25, 2016)

Poizon said:


> lol I know. sounds horrible right? But some things in life are simply truth no matter how bad they may sound. I'll explain.


Are you saying that truth is bad? Why do you live by that truth, if it is bad? It isn't some kind of unbreakable morally right law you are talking about.



> He can 1. Attempt to make a move & get to know her (Aka be the hunter)
> or 2. Hope that out of somewhere something will happen (Aka the opposite)


Doesn't that make the hunter opposite also? After the approach, he hopes that out of somewhere something will happen.


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