# NFs! What is your opinion of NTs?



## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

ChaosEqualsFun said:


> I find that NT's are mostly egotistical around other NT's and the more savvy ones are doing so comical effect. Then again, that might just be my NT friends. Any NT who has watched enough movies/ read enough books should know better than to underestimate others. I mean the hero tends to win when the villain gets cocky. Not that NT's are villains but there is still something to be learned from this.


Exactly, NFs can get too cocky too! We are all of course human :3


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> Because of your Fe, you misinterpret our behavior. NTJs RARELY go out of our way to hurt others' feelings; the only time we do that is when we are backed into a corner and have to rely on our shadow functions*. Others' feelings are our LAST priority out of 8, while it is your SECOND. Those of us who purposefully avoid hurting your feelings are likely to do it for personal reasons: "If I hurt their feelings, they'll run to their friends and try to ruin my reputation. It's best that I play it safe and instead pretend to concede." We don't care about tact unless it benefits us.**
> _________________________
> *A smart NTJ always thinks ahead, so that she/he never gets caught in that situation.
> **Maybe I'm falsely projecting my own individual qualities onto NTJ as a whole, but I doubt it. This can be backed up by function theory.


Sounds like you guys dont trust others either. Does that get in the way of having intimate relationships?


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Salihah said:


> Oh, so you only do it when you feel like you are being cornered? Thats very interesting. When do you apply it though? Can you give me a situation?


When I lose my cool, when I get so frustrated that I have difficulty controlling myself. For example, this happened when I was younger, when I was a teenager. I tried to rationally and calmly combat my ESFJ mother's rages, but often she would drag me into her realm of emotional madness, where I would wind up calling her a bitch or something. _Intentionally_ hurting feelings is rarely productive, so I avoid it unless I lose control. Unintentional hurting (lack of tact) is of lesser concern to me, somewhat for the reason of "if I hurt your feelings, it's _*your*_ fault for getting offended."



Salihah said:


> Sounds like you guys dont trust others either. Does that get in the way of having intimate relationships?


Ehhhh depends on the NT. By default, I trust new people a little bit. Ni comes in use to determine whether I should trust specific people less. I've never had a romantic relationship. My only 2 "intimate" relationships (best friends) died* for a couple of reasons. Trust issues, in the sense of suspicion, never got in the way. You might need to be more specific about what you mean by "trust".
_________
*Edit: The relationships are dead, not the people.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> When I lose my cool, when I get so frustrated that I have difficulty controlling myself. For example, this happened when I was younger, when I was a teenager. I tried to rationally and calmly combat my ESFJ mother's rages, but often she would drag me into her realm of emotional madness, where I would wind up calling her a bitch or something. _Intentionally_ hurting feelings is rarely productive, so I avoid it unless I lose control. Unintentional hurting (lack of tact) is of lesser concern to me, somewhat for the reason of "if I hurt your feelings, it's _*your*_ fault for getting offended."
> 
> Ehhhh depends on the NT. By default, I trust new people a little bit. Ni comes in use to determine whether I should trust specific people less. I've never had a romantic relationship. My only 2 "intimate" relationships (best friends) died for a couple of reasons. Trust issues, in the sense of suspicion, never got in the way. You might need to be more specific about what you mean by "trust".


Hmmm, I am not sure I like the if i hurt your feelings its your fault thing. I mean would you like it if someone did the same thing to you? Every human has feelings and emotions. You just seems to hide your emotions deep in yourself rather than us F types. I am observing you have some impatience.......is that a trait most or all ENTJs have? Because my step dad is an ENTJ, and he is somewhat impatient with rates and productivity of activities. Oddly enough hes patient with me when teaching me something. You guys tend to love systems for some reason.....What fascinates you so much about it? 

Trust as in the dictionary definition. And I am sorry about your friends. May they find peace


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## Polemic (May 22, 2013)

Salihah said:


> Trust as in the dictionary definition. And I am sorry about your friends. May they find peace


I think he means the relationships died, not his friends, but I thought the same thing initially. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Polemic said:


> I think he means the relationships died, not his friends, but I thought the same thing initially.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Tapatalk


OH! oops lol


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## Mee2 (Jan 30, 2014)

Two of my closest friends are ENTPs. My relationship with them is so bizarre. I think it's the overlapping Ne function. It usually only takes a few minutes before the Ne conversation starts and it only ever stops out of necessity (and as Ps, "necessity" is pretty subjective). Seven hour conversations, lasting until 2am, are actually pretty normal 

Not sure about other NTs. I don't think I'm close to any.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Mee2 said:


> Two of my closest friends are ENTPs. My relationship with them is so bizarre. I think it's the overlapping Ne function. It usually only takes a few minutes before the Ne conversation starts and it only ever stops out of necessity (and as Ps, "necessity" is pretty subjective). Seven hour conversations, lasting until 2am, are actually pretty normal
> 
> Not sure about other NTs. I don't think I'm close to any.


I have realized that we INFPs and ENFPs get along with mainly INTPs and ENTPs for their Ne functions and P type :3


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## cheburashka (Jan 4, 2013)

my opinion is "hell yeah."


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Salihah said:


> Hmmm, I am not sure I like the if i hurt your feelings its your fault thing. I mean would you like it if someone did the same thing to you? Every human has feelings and emotions. You just seems to hide your emotions deep in yourself rather than us F types. I am observing you have some impatience.......is that a trait most or all ENTJs have? Because my step dad is an ENTJ, and he is somewhat impatient with rates and productivity of activities. Oddly enough hes patient with me when teaching me something. You guys tend to love systems for some reason.....What fascinates you so much about it?
> 
> Trust as in the dictionary definition. And I am sorry about your friends. May they find peace


To be honest, I would LOVE interacting with a person who treats me with what I deem "respect" -- a person who is unafraid of saying the wrong thing to me, who trusts that I will understand his/her words for what they mean, rather than what they MIGHT mean. (For instance, I am unlikely to misinterpret "I like you, you're a cool guy" as "I have a major crush on you and secretly want to make out RIGHT NOW.")

I'm unlikely to be offended by, "you need eat and work out more!" Sure, the person is describing how my body is unattractive, but it doesn't bother me, as it is a matter of taste (subjective). I tend to see most subjective claims as relatively arbitrary. Objective claims are either true or false, and one of the rare times that I willingly take offense to something is when false objective claims are made. I have a strong principle of propagating TRUTH rather than lies, which probably stems from my experience of leaving a religious cult. Somebody who uses _intentionally_ offensive language ("you're ugly, I wish you would die") is simply not worth my time, or ANYBODY'S time for that matter.

Impatience is quite common amongst Te-users. I argue that it can be a positive trait, because of its demand for results. Yes, systems are nice, as long as we have the power to change them whenever we want.

Lastly, the _relationships_ died, not the people. (Both are NFs. *eyebrow raise*)


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> To be honest, I would LOVE interacting with a person who treats me with what I deem "respect" -- a person who is unafraid of saying the wrong thing to me, who trusts that I will understand his/her words for what they mean, rather than what they MIGHT mean. (For instance, I am unlikely to misinterpret "I like you, you're a cool guy" as "I have a major crush on you and secretly want to make out RIGHT NOW.")
> 
> I'm unlikely to be offended by, "you need eat and work out more!" Sure, the person is describing how my body is unattractive, but it doesn't bother me, as it is a matter of taste (subjective). I tend to see most subjective claims as relatively arbitrary. Objective claims are either true or false, and one of the rare times that I willingly take offense to something is when false objective claims are made. I have a strong principle of propagating TRUTH rather than lies, which probably stems from my experience of leaving a religious cult. Somebody who uses _intentionally_ offensive language ("you're ugly, I wish you would die") is simply not worth my time, or ANYBODY'S time for that matter.
> 
> ...


Oh wow, I guess thats why I get along with my step dad so well, I do the exact same thing you have said, all of it. I have voiced my opinions, concerns and blunt honesty to him, whether I am right or wrong, Idc. I just want you to know, then you can explain how it is wrong to me so I can understand. 

Thats Really interesting............

Makes sense, I see that a lot in my family (Mainly NTs)

Lol, Leave me alone!


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Salihah said:


> Lol, Leave me alone!


Interpretation changes when I state the same information in a different way: For example, "the only people with whom I've had a meaningful relationship were NFs." :tongue: See, now it's all cool!


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> Interpretation changes when I state the same information in a different way: For example, "the only people with whom I've had a meaningful relationship were NFs." :tongue: See, now it's all cool!


Lol, of course it does! Such wittiness......you have indeed. I wonder....what were the rest of their letters? Yeah, *looks at suspiciously* its all cool..........


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Salihah said:


> Lol, of course it does! Such wittiness......you have indeed. I wonder....what were the rest of their letters? Yeah, *looks at suspiciously* its all cool..........


ENFJ & INFP - both dominant feelers. I rarely had the opportunity to use my dominant Te around them (even if it was appropriate for the moment, they would tease me for always trying to troubleshoot things like messed up equipment). The INFP was at odds with his own personality (he refused to accept or even work on the "girly" parts of it, which caused him stress that he didn't need). The ENFJ embraced his own personality more.
They constantly complained about the other's habit of complaining. :dry:


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> ENFJ & INFP - both dominant feelers. I rarely had the opportunity to use my dominant Te around them (even if it was appropriate for the moment, they would tease me for always trying to troubleshoot things like messed up equipment). The INFP was at odds with his own personality (he refused to accept or even work on the "girly" parts of it, which caused him stress that he didn't need). The ENFJ embraced his own personality more.
> They constantly complained about the other's habit of complaining. :dry:


LOL! Oh wow......ummmmm yeah I would have like been better accustomed to them, but how did you handle them? I would tease you too dude, but just a little cuz im mischievous and such. That "girly" part is not really girly, its emotion. An INFP who doesnt embrace that part of him, is just going to be miserable for the rest of his life, and cause trouble for himself. He should have thought or at least realized that...... I laughed at the complain war. I am sorry.....thats just funny............lol Did you tell them they were doing that?


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Salihah said:


> LOL! Oh wow......ummmmm yeah I would have like been better accustomed to them, but how did you handle them? I would tease you too dude, but just a little cuz im mischievous and such. That "girly" part is not really girly, its emotion. An INFP who doesnt embrace that part of him, is just going to be miserable for the rest of his life, and cause trouble for himself. He should have thought or at least realized that...... I laughed at the complain war. I am sorry.....thats just funny............lol Did you tell them they were doing that?


INFP - lots of connecting through mutual interests, primarily music. He has no confidence in his intellectual ability, so he gets angry when around that kind of stimulation. He's sadly unbalanced as a personality.
ENFJ - connecting through fiction, more time spent together in general, and slightly deeper conversation. Often hides his feelings for the sake of others and eventually breaks down into depressive episodes where he needs to be alone, which was quite frustrating.
Complain war - I tried to make it clear that they need to stop complaining and do something if anything bothers them. Both had trouble following my advice.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> INFP - lots of connecting through mutual interests, primarily music. He has no confidence in his intellectual ability, so he gets angry when around that kind of stimulation.
> ENFJ - connecting through fiction, more time spent together in general, and slightly deeper conversation.


Hmmm interesting. That confidence thing would bug me though. We have doubts in them at times due to feeling like we are nothing. Wait, so he seriously would get upset when he would indulge in deep conversation and thought and talk you about them?  wuuuuuuuuuut??? 

I am not surprised, you both are very close in the letters, only thing is you have Te and he has Fe. So it makes sense you would be better accustomed to being around him, and spending more time talking and spending time with him. I admit, we INFPs can be an irrational mess, but thats only a small part of the whole picture of us.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Salihah said:


> Hmmm interesting. That confidence thing would bug me though. We have doubts in them at times due to feeling like we are nothing. Wait, so he seriously would get upset when he would indulge in deep conversation and thought and talk you about them?  wuuuuuuuuuut???
> 
> I am not surprised, you both are very close in the letters, only thing is you have Te and he has Fe. So it makes sense you would be better accustomed to being around him, and spending more time talking and spending time with him. I admit, we INFPs can be an irrational mess, but thats only a small part of the whole picture of us.


The dominant Fe gets in the way in that he hides his feelings and stays in bad relationships far past their expiration dates. Also, the crowd-pleaser aspect of the Fe bothered me a bit. And the unnecessary self-doubting. Considering that I should be at complete odds with Fe-doms, we did quite well.

Take a look at my previous post (I edited it).


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> The dominant Fe gets in the way in that he hides his feelings and stays in bad relationships far past their expiration dates. Also, the crowd-pleaser aspect of the Fe bothered me a bit. And the unnecessary self-doubting. Considering that I should be at complete odds with Fe-doms, we did quite well.
> 
> Take a look at my previous post (I edited it).


Oh, well I can understand that. I mean its annoying if you hide something about yourself (especially something as big as emotion) to others. I mean, it annoys me greatly because then I have NO flipping idea who you are and where I can tread. I would have probably dropped them both myself. Huh, it would amaze me, because its like "How the hell does he know all these people??" The self-doubting, its just very high humility, which in itself is a bad thing. Lol, give yourself a pat on the back! XD But i must say, not all NFs are like them, I am def not, similar, but not like them 

I saw, and really? They both sound unbalanced to me. I have noticed the depression modes with them.....never quite understood why........I can def understand the alone part though. I need my space and alone time. If not, I feel trapped and enclosed and will go a little nuts and get irrationally agitated and angry. THis is more of the end of the day mood though, because I expended so much energy. So he gets upset by having intellectual stimulation? Thats irrational even for us! Thats like what we strive on and for! I have never met an INFP who did not enjoy that at all! Yeah hes very underdeveloped and oppressive of himself. Though......I feel bad for him and feels he needs a hug....


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Dalton said:


> To be honest, I would LOVE interacting with a person who treats me with what I deem "respect" -- a person who is unafraid of saying the wrong thing to me, who trusts that I will understand his/her words for what they mean, rather than what they MIGHT mean. (For instance, I am unlikely to misinterpret "I like you, you're a cool guy" as "I have a major crush on you and secretly want to make out RIGHT NOW.")


Really? I find with NT's every time I am straight with them, they freak right the hell out. The bare honesty I have with just about everyone led one NT to say she's afraid to ask me questions because the answers, well, she is worried I will tell the truth. Another became very afraid that every time we would talk I would want to, very directly, discuss things like sex or the "meta" about a conversation, which drove him crazy (I "ruined" conversation by being quite so direct).

I have never known an NT that wanted me to be direct with them. I think they truly _believe_ they do, but what happens when the "really direct" or honest is "yeah, so that way your shirt is draped over your left shoulder reminds me of the day we met and I was looking down your shirt and knew right about then that I was going to fall in love with you, and hey I am really just quite happy to be in your presence right now, let's get coffee I haven't really slept much because I keep dreaming about you and our adventures."

Eeeeeek. Right? I mean this sort of thing comes out of my mouth. Frequently. NT's want me to be direct, but only on the subjects they want to talk about, and they want me to moderate things they find distasteful or distracting from their, you know, world-running/conquering/etc.


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Dalton said:


> The INFP was at odds with his own personality (he refused to accept or even work on the "girly" parts of it, which caused him stress that he didn't need). The ENFJ embraced his own personality more.
> They constantly complained about the other's habit of complaining. :dry:


Remind me to tell you about my days as an INTP. (yeah. I am an ENFJ. For reals.)


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> Really? I find with NT's every time I am straight with them, they freak right the hell out. The bare honesty I have with just about everyone led one NT to say she's afraid to ask me questions because the answers, well, she is worried I will tell the truth. Another became very afraid that every time we would talk I would want to, very directly, discuss things like sex or the "meta" about a conversation, which drove him crazy (I "ruined" conversation by being quite so direct).
> 
> I have never known an NT that wanted me to be direct with them. I think they truly _believe_ they do, but what happens when the "really direct" or honest is "yeah, so that way your shirt is draped over your left shoulder reminds me of the day we met and I was looking down your shirt and knew right about then that I was going to fall in love with you, and hey I am really just quite happy to be in your presence right now, let's get coffee I haven't really slept much because I keep dreaming about you and our adventures."
> 
> Eeeeeek. Right? I mean this sort of thing comes out of my mouth. Frequently. NT's want me to be direct, but only on the subjects they want to talk about, and they want me to moderate things they find distasteful or distracting from their, you know, world-running/conquering/etc.


I do get the from INTJs and INTPs........ idk about ENTPs but, ENTJs really do like the stand up things and being honest and blunt in saying what you want, whether right or wrong. What NT type does all that? All of them you have encountered? Was each different? I am interested now :3


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Salihah said:


> I do get the from INTJs and INTPs........ idk about ENTPs but, ENTJs really do like the stand up things and being honest and blunt in saying what you want, whether right or wrong. What NT type does all that? All of them you have encountered? Was each different? I am interested now :3


My NT relationships have been with introverts, with the exception of my wife, who is about 50/50 I/E. So, INTP, INTJ. Lots and lots and lots of INTJ's, a couple INTP's (but never have been intimate with an INTP).

If what you're saying is true, I should be very careful to never hang out with ENTJ's unless I don't have anything to do for a year. Then again, that sounds fun. Maybe I'll go hunt one down. I'm presently looking for an ESFP, so I guess adding ENTJ to the list wouldn't hurt.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> Really? I find with NT's every time I am straight with them, they freak right the hell out. The bare honesty I have with just about everyone led one NT to say she's afraid to ask me questions because the answers, well, she is worried I will tell the truth. Another became very afraid that every time we would talk I would want to, very directly, discuss things like sex or the "meta" about a conversation, which drove him crazy (I "ruined" conversation by being quite so direct).
> 
> I have never known an NT that wanted me to be direct with them. I think they truly _believe_ they do, but what happens when the "really direct" or honest is "yeah, so that way your shirt is draped over your left shoulder reminds me of the day we met and I was looking down your shirt and knew right about then that I was going to fall in love with you, and hey I am really just quite happy to be in your presence right now, let's get coffee I haven't really slept much because I keep dreaming about you and our adventures."
> 
> Eeeeeek. Right? I mean this sort of thing comes out of my mouth. Frequently. NT's want me to be direct, but only on the subjects they want to talk about, and they want me to moderate things they find distasteful or distracting from their, you know, world-running/conquering/etc.


Sure, it might be awkward to hear somebody say something unexpected like that, but I've had conversations like that, and I really do appreciate blunt honesty. Perhaps this trait is more present in ENTJs than other NTs. However, I can see myself reacting poorly to something like that if I don't reciprocate feelings, because I may need to drop the bomb of "let's be 'just friends'." In situations where people open up emotionally, I actually do worry about tact, and I feel quite awkward and helpless if I want to tell the person "no," just because I value the person's honesty and don't want to devalue their attempt, because it would be unfair and a violation of my own value of honesty. Damn Fi, getting in the way.

ENFJ can straight-up frighten me. Wayyyyy too forceful for my liking (I'd be okay if it was Te, but Fe? noooooooo lol). When they try to NOT be forceful (e.g. walking on eggshells or being quiet to avoid conflict), they lose all their energy and I don't like that either. I feel that some INTP might go head-over heels for ENFJ, though.

(In other news, is Jennifer Lawrence ENFJ? I kinda have a celebrity crush on her, but I feel that if I met her, I'd be scared of her. Emma Watson, though... She can have me any day. Except Saturday. I have a prior obligation. :kitteh



janeavr said:


> Remind me to tell you about my days as an INTP. (yeah. I am an ENFJ. For reals.)


I once thought that I was an INTP and simultaneously thought that ENTJ were the sexiest. I wanted to have the skills and dominance of an ENTJ. Later, I realized that I always was one of them. *I'd smirk, but I still have most of the bad traits that made me feel INTP (lazy, shy, etc.). I'm werkin' on it!*


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> My NT relationships have been with introverts, with the exception of my wife, who is about 50/50 I/E. So, INTP, INTJ. Lots and lots and lots of INTJ's, a couple INTP's (but never have been intimate with an INTP).
> 
> If what you're saying is true, I should be very careful to never hang out with ENTJ's unless I don't have anything to do for a year. Then again, that sounds fun. Maybe I'll go hunt one down. I'm presently looking for an ESFP, so I guess adding ENTJ to the list wouldn't hurt.


Lol, they arent that bad really. They are awesome to hang out with. INTJs......thats another story. But i want to know more about them.


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Salihah said:


> Lol, they arent that bad really. They are awesome to hang out with. INTJs......thats another story. But i want to know more about them.


I broke off a relationship with a male INTJ on 9 January, and the female INTJ I was seeing is evidently not speaking to me as of 23 January (naturally, no INTJ I've ever had a relationship has ever said "hey, we need to end this," it's always been radio silence. Usually we wind up 'making up' and being civil to eachother some years down the line). I am still in a super ouchy spot about both of these, as right off the top of my head, I can name seven I was absolutely and entirely in love with (six women, one man), and I seem to lose each one of them in this incredibly painful way. It's always lots of fun and I am so happy when it's good, but jesus, it's the pits when it ends. I've never had two at once end like this, so maybe I just feel worse than normal.


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## The Hungry One (Jan 26, 2011)

I love all NTs. They fascinate. No bullshit. I like that.


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Dalton said:


> Sure, it might be awkward to hear somebody say something unexpected like that, but I've had conversations like that, and I really do appreciate blunt honesty. Perhaps this trait is more present in ENTJs than other NTs. However, I can see myself reacting poorly to something like that if I don't reciprocate feelings, because I may need to drop the bomb of "let's be 'just friends'."


Hence the comment about being afraid to ask me questions because of what may come out of my mouth. It isn't always just "those" feelings, sometimes it's a question of how much I have thought-out the situation in front of me and the NT is kind of flummoxed with information overload or concerned with my expectations for their performance or commitment, regardless of context (whether this is a task at work or a relationship…).



> ENFJ can straight-up frighten me. Wayyyyy too forceful for my liking (I'd be okay if it was Te, but Fe? noooooooo lol). When they try to NOT be forceful (e.g. walking on eggshells or being quiet to avoid conflict), they lose all their energy and I don't like that either. I feel that some INTP might go head-over heels for ENFJ, though.


I have had a number of INTP friends, but find them a little stiff. I am not sure what it is that makes the INTJ feel a little... softer, less rigid, more "fun;" I'm not sure how to put it. And, they seem to weather the stuff that comes out of my face pretty well (at least for a while). And, of course I can see how at least myself I'd be pretty forceful. I describe myself to potential partners as "very demanding," but I don't think anyone has ever quite appreciated what that means such that they are not shocked later on.

I am going to go cry somewhere. So hard thinking back on all these relationships and the people I've lost over the years for, what seems in hindsight, to be stupid petty shit. And I miss them.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> I broke off a relationship with a male INTJ on 9 January, and the female INTJ I was seeing is evidently not speaking to me as of 23 January (naturally, no INTJ I've ever had a relationship has ever said "hey, we need to end this," it's always been radio silence. Usually we wind up 'making up' and being civil to eachother some years down the line). I am still in a super ouchy spot about both of these, as right off the top of my head, I can name seven I was absolutely and entirely in love with (six women, one man), and I seem to lose each one of them in this incredibly painful way. It's always lots of fun and I am so happy when it's good, but jesus, it's the pits when it ends. I've never had two at once end like this, so maybe I just feel worse than normal.


Thats annoying. period.


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Salihah said:


> Thats annoying. period.


Which part?


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> Which part?


The radio silence. That just erks me.


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Salihah said:


> The radio silence. That just erks me.


Yeah. I don't get it. Every single one has done it, too. I'm left wondering, what in the hell happened? I realize you were/are upset, but give me a hint so I don't do it to someone else. Good grief.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> Yeah. I don't get it. Every single one has done it, too. I'm left wondering, what in the hell happened? I realize you were/are upset, but give me a hint so I don't do it to someone else. Good grief.


Exactly, and the "we are done talking about this" attitude or remark when arguing about something. I really dont like that either.


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## Kindlings (Dec 7, 2013)

I am on an Alan Watts kick- this video reminded me of this thread. 

"You know the words but you don't know the music". I sometimes feel that way. The truth is you need both prickles and goo


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

janeavr said:


> Yeah. I don't get it. Every single one has done it, too. I'm left wondering, what in the hell happened? I realize you were/are upset, but give me a hint so I don't do it to someone else. Good grief.





Salihah said:


> Exactly, and the "we are done talking about this" attitude or remark when arguing about something. I really dont like that either.


Need time to process and it doesn't make sense to keep arguing when nothing is making sense.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> Need time to process and it doesn't make sense to keep arguing when nothing is making sense.


No it isnt. They just shut down or something when I still dont understand what they are saying and I am pressing for them to explain. That really pisses me off. Like I should automatically know when I still dont understand. Theres no patience.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> Need time to process and it doesn't make sense to keep arguing when nothing is making sense.


Objectively speaking, not all INTJs are like this.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Kindlings said:


> I am on an Alan Watts kick- this video reminded me of this thread.
> 
> "You know the words but you don't know the music". I sometimes feel that way. The truth is you need both prickles and goo


An apt description for the battle between NTs and NFs.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Salihah said:


> No it isnt. They just shut down or something when I still dont understand what they are saying and I am pressing for them to explain. That really pisses me off. Like I should automatically know when I still dont understand. Theres no patience.


Everyone likes to wear their own goggles. Like I said, it doesn't make sense to argue when nothing makes sense. The two of us are kinda headed in that direction.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> Everyone likes to wear their own goggles. Like I said, it doesn't make sense to argue when nothing makes sense. The two of us are kinda headed in that direction.


Lol, yeah I have noticed. Sigh, w.e


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Salihah said:


> Lol, yeah I have noticed. Sigh, w.e


See now you're doing it.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> See now you're doing it.


One thing I have read about you that is useful, you guys love, and I mean LOVE to argue. So.......thanks and see ya!


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Salihah said:


> One thing I have read about you that is useful, you guys love, and I mean LOVE to argue. So.......thanks and see ya!


So much confusion that you expressed and not one question. I thought you wanted to understand. :wink:


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

Salihah said:


> The radio silence. That just erks me.


it's because it's passive aggressive and uncorrectable without giving in. it's not fair and wrecks damage to a relationship. however, INTJs can get lost in a maelstrom of feeling that they have no words for. I tell my INTJ hubby to get back to me in a time period to help with that.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> So much confusion that you expressed and not one question. I thought you wanted to understand. :wink:


The problem is.....now I dont exactly trust you to help me understand any more. I asked before, got an answer that only confused me more, and you are nit picking at my responses now; I do not appreciate that. So, I think I will just go with the answer you gave me before even though it isn't that much satisfying........ since you have no other way or explaining it or do not see it any other way correct?


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Tea Path said:


> it's because it's passive aggressive and uncorrectable without giving in. it's not fair and wrecks damage to a relationship. however, INTJs can get lost in a maelstrom of feeling that they have no words for. I tell my INTJ hubby to get back to me in a time period to help with that.


Oh! okay then. thanks!


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> So much confusion that you expressed and not one question. I thought you wanted to understand. :wink:


And I do! lol, but its so late here.....like 12:17. Il have more energy tomorrow. I did ask a question before, remember? You answered it, I just wasnt satisfied with the answer. It didnt really tell me anything. Can you elaborate and explain? Sassy............


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

Salihah said:


> The problem is.....now I dont exactly trust you to help me understand any more. I asked before, got an answer that only confused me more, and you are nit picking at my responses now; I do not appreciate that. So, I think I will just go with the answer you gave me before even though it isn't that much satisfying........ since you have no other way or explaining it or do not see it any other way correct?


Different styles of communication. One particularly bad instance I was going through, my vision would go in and out and it all just felt like a bad trip. I couldn't even articulate to myself what I was feeling. I was hopeless to articulate it to someone else. Myself and many, many other NTs need time to process. So like I said before, time to process and it doesn't make sense to argue about something that doesn't make sense. It's not that it's a pointless argument or discussion, it's an inability to process fluidly right this minute. Imagine if an NT expected you to be able to keep up with extremely NT-y fluidly and in the moment. It's unreasonable. It takes time and patience. 

And I was pulling your leg. :happy:


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

@Salihah, your perception is flawed. Telling a person that all Asians are bad drivers will influence the person to notice every moment in which an Asian drives poorly, thus confirming their bias. EVERYBODY says, "whatever, I don't want to talk about it" on occasion. I have _plenty_ of experience with feelers pulling that crap on me, and I'm sure that _thinkers do it just as much.

_Tea Path hit the nail on the head, and MegaTuxRacer is on that track, too. You CAN'T keep pushing a person! Having a person saying 'ANSWER ME, NOW, NOW, NOW' is extremely frustrating, and only serves to wreck your relationship with the other. If you tell a person to exceed his ability (in this case, the ability to answer your questions), he'll react with anger, because he CAN'T exceed his ability.

If you really need an answer, the considerate and productive way to go is to ask the person to think about it and get back to you later. This way, you don't cause contention, and you're far more likely to get a REAL answer, rather than the person giving a fake answer just to shut you up.

:kitteh:


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> Different styles of communication. One particularly bad instance I was going through, my vision would go in and out and it all just felt like a bad trip. I couldn't even articulate to myself what I was feeling. I was hopeless to articulate it to someone else. Myself and many, many other NTs need time to process. So like I said before, time to process and it doesn't make sense to argue about something that doesn't make sense. It's not that it's a pointless argument or discussion, it's an inability to process fluidly right this minute. Imagine if an NT expected you to be able to keep up with extremely NT-y fluidly and in the moment. It's unreasonable. It takes time and patience.
> 
> And I was pulling your leg. :happy:


Oh! thanks, this is really interesting! It explains a lot, why I get frustrated with them and vice versa....... now I can apply this 

Why does everyone do that......?


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> @Salihah, your perception is flawed. Telling a person that all Asians are bad drivers will influence the person to notice every moment in which an Asian drives poorly, thus confirming their bias. EVERYBODY says, "whatever, I don't want to talk about it" on occasion. I have _plenty_ of experience with feelers pulling that crap on me, and I'm sure that _thinkers do it just as much.
> 
> _Tea Path hit the nail on the head, and MegaTuxRacer is on that track, too. You CAN'T keep pushing a person! Having a person saying 'ANSWER ME, NOW, NOW, NOW' is extremely frustrating, and only serves to wreck your relationship with the other. If you tell a person to exceed his ability (in this case, the ability to answer your questions), he'll react with anger, because he CAN'T exceed his ability.
> 
> ...


So, give them time to process and be patient....ok I will try to remember that when we have a discussion. Yeah, but before you told me this, I had NO idea this is what you guys needed or required. Seriously. And thanks so much! I honestly wish they would have told me "I will get back to you on it" or "Let me think about it and then talk to you later", because I am a lot younger than them, but i guess that was asking for too much...... But i honestly was not aware of this. Thanks! Now I can watch carefully and apply it.  I wanna hug you and @MegaTuxRacer for this!   *Jumps with glee* I learned something new! XD


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

@Kindlings: Oh, you went there, didn't you.  Let's be friends. I love Alan Watts also:

Alan Watts On Why Our Minds And Technology Can’t Grasp Reality | Open Culture

big fan.


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> Need time to process and it doesn't make sense to keep arguing when nothing is making sense.


I don't need an argument. When it's over, I know it's over. I just want to know what it was I did that pushed you to that line of "not talking to you for 2-3 years." So that I can be very careful there next time, too.

See, thing is, I will walk away from people like that, too. I think my threshold is way, way higher than the NT's I've known, but when I get there, I'm very clear. I will gesticulate and point, almost as though the line crossed exists right there, in that room, between us, and I will say, _no,_ stop, right _there_, we are _done_ with this. The NT's just sort of stop talking, look down at the floor, wander away seemingly hurt or unhappy or whatever, and then fall off the planet. I am left wondering at what point they gave up, so that next time it comes up I can be more supportive and we can get past that point and possibly persevere.


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Dalton said:


> This way, you don't cause contention, and you're far more likely to get a REAL answer, rather than the person giving a fake answer just to shut you up.


ugggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh. this. i call this "lying" and you're calling it "coping."


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> ugggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh. this. i call this "lying" and you're calling it "coping."


I never called it that, but if you want to talk about it, lying can be a way to cope with situations.
_

* *




Question: "How do I look?"
Lie: "You look wonderful, honey!"

Question: "Be honest - Do you want to have sex with her?"
Lie: "No, you're the only one for me, babe."

Question: "Did you murder Mrs. Robinson?"
Lie: "No." <---- A pretty good way to cope with the allegation, if the others have no evidence against you.


_
* *





Imagine how incriminating THIS would seem:
_Q: "Did you murder Mrs. Robinson?"
A: "Um... let me get back to you about that."_


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Dalton said:


> @Salihah, your perception is flawed. Telling a person that all Asians are bad drivers will influence the person to notice every moment in which an Asian drives poorly, thus confirming their bias. EVERYBODY says, "whatever, I don't want to talk about it" on occasion. I have _plenty_ of experience with feelers pulling that crap on me, and I'm sure that _thinkers do it just as much.
> 
> _Tea Path hit the nail on the head, and MegaTuxRacer is on that track, too. You CAN'T keep pushing a person! Having a person saying 'ANSWER ME, NOW, NOW, NOW' is extremely frustrating, and only serves to wreck your relationship with the other. If you tell a person to exceed his ability (in this case, the ability to answer your questions), he'll react with anger, because he CAN'T exceed his ability.
> 
> ...


Of course my perception is flawed dummy! Its why I started this thread and am asking questions lol I want the truth and to change it because obviously, its not right. XD


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

I usually prefer their company over xxFx but it also depends on the individual, because I happen to be closer to NTs (INTP, INTJ) rather than other types. I have an ESFP friend and I think an ISFP. My past experiences with NFs aren't that good. Also, when I'm with F types I feel that I have to be the voice of logic, which many times I succeed but others it's exhausting. With NTs I can be my mushy emotional self and they give valuable insight. It's kinda strange and contradictory I suppose.
But I think type alone isn't the most important thing. I also like NT humour.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

janeavr said:


> I don't need an argument. When it's over, I know it's over. I just want to know what it was I did that pushed you to that line of "not talking to you for 2-3 years." So that I can be very careful there next time, too.
> 
> See, thing is, I will walk away from people like that, too. I think my threshold is way, way higher than the NT's I've known, but when I get there, I'm very clear. I will gesticulate and point, almost as though the line crossed exists right there, in that room, between us, and I will say, _no,_ stop, right _there_, we are _done_ with this. The NT's just sort of stop talking, look down at the floor, wander away seemingly hurt or unhappy or whatever, and then fall off the planet. I am left wondering at what point they gave up, so that next time it comes up I can be more supportive and we can get past that point and possibly persevere.


If it takes that long to process, it takes that long to process. Like what @Tea Path said, it's not necessarily right and it can ruin relationships. It just is what it is.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Now that would depend upon what setting I meet them and their maturities as people. For example as a former CS student I came to dislike the ST-NT dominant male environments when I can plan, coordinate and direct people yet motivating people to be conscientious learners in teams now that I could not do when T types seem to set their own work patterns (not always in line with group needs) or become less likely to seek help unless they know more about 1 bit.

However I would actually favour a 'just the facts' mechanic or supervisor in some settings when 'he said, she said feelings' can cloud judgements in time bound technical exchanges.


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

MegaTuxRacer said:


> If it takes that long to process, it takes that long to process. Like what @Tea Path said, it's not necessarily right and it can ruin relationships. It just is what it is.


So fatalist. This just really annoys me. "Eh, shit broke, I guess if it's broke, there's no point in fixing."

I look at these things and say "I am exceptionally good at fixing things, and I want this around enough to work on it, as hard as I am capable of, until things are fixed." It takes a _serious_ amount of broke to get me to not want to fix it.


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## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

janeavr said:


> So fatalist. This just really annoys me. "Eh, shit broke, I guess if it's broke, there's no point in fixing."
> 
> I look at these things and say "I am exceptionally good at fixing things, and I want this around enough to work on it, as hard as I am capable of, until things are fixed." It takes a _serious_ amount of broke to get me to not want to fix it.


So do NTs and SPs and SJs. The things are just different. With maturity all get better at fixing things out of their comfort zone. NTs will still take more time.


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## laujase (Apr 9, 2010)

I admire the NT's intellect and the fact that they're the easiest types for me to be able to immediately jump into a deep, philosophical topic and talk/debate for hours on end. Their different perspective is always very grounded and allows me to think carefully through issues and their thoughts are very insightful and are logically consistent 98% of the time. However, their lack of ability to consider the human factor in their reasoning and that emotional beings undermine logical reasoning frustrates me and their stubbornness to stick to it also annoys me. 
INTJs: They're the most upfront about what they say and are the easiest to start conversing with. However their directness and bluntness with a lack of consideration of others is very noticeable and I dislike that
ENTJs: ENTJs are the hardest for me to talk to, but I haven't come across many of them. I usually clash a lot with ENTJs because they're usually focused on "what needs to be done" while i am more focused on "what ifs" and "how cool would it be if"
INTPs: by far the funniest NTs and the most knowledgable. they are a bit hard to start talking to but once I find an idea or topic that they can roll with, we can go on for hours. 
ENTPs: coolest NT after the INTP. similar idea to the INTP for me, but much easier to converse with them because they like to initiate conversation and I'm happy to roll with whatever ideas they come up with.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> So fatalist. This just really annoys me. "Eh, shit broke, I guess if it's broke, there's no point in fixing."
> 
> I look at these things and say "I am exceptionally good at fixing things, and I want this around enough to work on it, as hard as I am capable of, until things are fixed." It takes a _serious_ amount of broke to get me to not want to fix it.


BAhahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!, sorry a "lol" wasnt enough and it reminded me of this......


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Salihah said:


> BAhahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!, sorry a "lol" wasnt enough and it reminded me of this......


Doh! Guilty as charged.


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

janeavr said:


> Doh! Guilty as charged.


Lol!


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

janeavr said:


> So fatalist. This just really annoys me. "Eh, shit broke, I guess if it's broke, there's no point in fixing."
> 
> I look at these things and say "I am exceptionally good at fixing things, and I want this around enough to work on it, as hard as I am capable of, until things are fixed." It takes a _serious_ amount of broke to get me to not want to fix it.


how do you fix people that either don't want to change or don't have the tools to do so without accepting who and what they are first?


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## Artemis 2x4 (Dec 10, 2013)

Tea Path said:


> how do you fix people that either don't want to change or don't have the tools to do so without accepting who and what they are first?


? If you accept who they are, why try to fix them? They dont need fixing if you accept them for who they are because by accepting them for who they are, you accept their faults and strengths. So if you try and fix them, you dont really accept them for who they are right? *confused*


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## janeavr (Jan 13, 2014)

Tea Path said:


> how do you fix people that either don't want to change or don't have the tools to do so without accepting who and what they are first?


I was referring to the relationship, not the person. If I felt INTJ's were broken I wouldn't fall in love with them so easily.


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## Tea Path (Sep 5, 2012)

janeavr said:


> I was referring to the relationship, not the person. If I felt INTJ's were broken I wouldn't fall in love with them so easily.


ah, understood and agreed.


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