# Inability to Tolerate Working



## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I may be fitting the triangle into the square hole but at least I know triangles exist.


To elaborate, it's not a cognitive problem, not a case of a square peg not believing it can fit into a square hole. It's a compatibility problem. 

And if most holes are square and some pegs are triangles, is there a problem with those pegs? Do they need to see a doctor or a psychiatrist? Must all pegs be square or else they are unhealthy?

I may be an uncommon shape and at a disadvantage because of it, but that doesn't mean there is anything intrinsically wrong with this shape.

It may be difficult, but I really need to find a triangle hole.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Silveresque said:


> To elaborate, it's not a cognitive problem, not a case of a square peg not believing it can fit into a square hole. It's a compatibility problem.
> 
> And if most holes are square and some pegs are triangles, is there a problem with those pegs? Do they need to see a doctor or a psychiatrist? Must all pegs be square or else they are unhealthy?
> 
> ...


I use the term psychiatric logic because I recognize the fact that parts of it are basically the idea that abnormal things are bad and it's a status quo stabilizer.
But the difference is, I think that a triangle can be made into a square and a square hole could be made into a triangle hole. But admittely, it's harder to change the square hole because the square hole is society itself, everything around you. There are some people who think they can control the square hole by themselves or that try to push their triangle shape into it. These I shall call "problematic", ultimately resting is being happy. They tell themselves that they are fine, essentially, they think that they cannot change or that thinks will change for them. They are not adaptable and I oppose this. 
But then there is a resistance to adapt, which I record as people who use terms like "my true feelings" to avoid change and criticism. 
My opinion is that it's a lot easier to just change into a appropriate shape to fit into the hole, but that needs an extreme amount of nuance to not be confused. It does not mean, abide by "normal standards to be accepted", like anything that requires that much effort it induces stress. It seems means that internal solutions to mental solutions are more viable than trying to control the world around you.
I consider happiness to be at rest, ideally inside a hole, the ultimate desire is to be in a hole. But say you are a rhombus, there are virtually no rhombus holes. A rhombus is essentially a severely stubborn and resistant person. They may have good drive but they have no happiness. In my view, choose happiness over individuality, do what will make you happy, do not purposely try to be an eccentric. It proves nothing.
So if you are a triangle, then look for that triangle hole, but don't try to make square holes triangle holes on your own and don't try to interest yourself into a square hole unless you are willing to change shape and adapt. Do what you want but be aware of your limits. If you are hopelessly searching for a triangle hole, to the brink of suicide, be honest and try to adapt. I'm not telling you to do anything other than what makes you happy. It is the prime directive.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Asian_Chick said:


> What about volunteer work? It can be very flexible and require very little time out of your schedule.


Not sure what you mean. I can't make a living off of volunteer work because they don't pay, so I would still have to get a job.



chanteuse said:


> you can try to find a government job. Government job gives you a better job security, less work related stress (from work; people stress is out of your control), and some build-in retirement savings. *Many jobs allow you to vegetate as long as you look like you are working.
> *
> However, not all government jobs are equal. Find one in a department that generates money (like IRS). The chance of laid off is much lower. If it's small city (population wise), the jobs and retirement are not as secured (even big city can suffer from bad management like Detroit).
> 
> Most jobs don't require your education fits the job requirement unless it's a specific job (example: network specialist, finance or accounting related, or human resources).


That type of job might be okay. But it seems like finding one like that would be a matter of luck, as they don't exactly tell you in the job description that you can vegetate, lol. It's an eventual possibility, which is something at least, but not an immediate or guaranteed solution.


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## chanteuse (May 30, 2014)

Silveresque said:


> That type of job might be okay. But it seems like finding one like that would be a matter of luck, as they don't exactly tell you in the job description that you can vegetate, lol. It's an eventual possibility, which is something at least, but not an immediate or guaranteed solution.


It all depends on your supervisor. Most supervisors just want peace and quiet (you do your job to NOT make them look bad). Sure, there are some cowboys but trust me, they are minorities. Even if you got one, he/she may not be there forever. The worker bees with seniority have ways to "punish" cowboy supervisors without drawing blood. 

Most government job managers want no trouble. If you can stay below the radar and finish your job in 2 hours to bill 40 hours, so be it.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> I use the term psychiatric logic because I recognize the fact that parts of it are basically the idea that abnormal things are bad and it's a status quo stabilizer.
> But the difference is, I think that a triangle can be made into a square and a square hole could be made into a triangle hole. But admittely, it's harder to change the square hole because the square hole is society itself, everything around you. There are some people who think they can control the square hole by themselves or that try to push their triangle shape into it. These I shall call "problematic", ultimately resting is being happy. They tell themselves that they are fine, essentially, they think that they cannot change or that thinks will change for them. They are not adaptable and I oppose this.
> But then there is a resistance to adapt, which I record as people who use terms like "my true feelings" to avoid change and criticism.
> My opinion is that it's a lot easier to just change into a appropriate shape to fit into the hole, but that needs an extreme amount of nuance to not be confused. It does not mean, abide by "normal standards to be accepted", like anything that requires that much effort it induces stress. It seems means that internal solutions to mental solutions are more viable than trying to control the world around you.
> ...


Individuality isn't always a choice, just as an introvert can't change into an extravert. We have some degree of adaptability but we can't always change enough to adapt to any conditions. 

Potential for change is something I keep in mind, but based on what I've experienced so far and what I know about myself, it seems unlikely that I would be able to adapt enough to most types of jobs. So the search for a compatible job continues.


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## Kingdom Crusader (Jan 4, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> Not sure what you mean. I can't make a living off of volunteer work because they don't pay, so I would still have to get a job.


I know you can't make a living off of volunteer work. I have a paying job, go to school, raise a 6-year-old boy as a single mom, and volunteer. Of course, I don't volunteer for the pay.... I do it partly for networking purposes. I meet people and get ideas of what I may be interested and able to do. In fact, if I wanted to, I could be employed at one of the institutions I volunteer at because of this. And they pay good, along with great benefits, etc. Not only the aforementioned, I get recommendations and something to put on my resume. I believe I landed my current job because of my volunteer work. And I love it.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

This may have been answered, but why are you in physical pain?


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## p55carroll (Oct 9, 2012)

Silveresque said:


>


Y'know, I think that if you just turn that triangular piece a bit, it'll fit into the square hole. (Maybe not, but worth a try.)

On a serious note, what do you have to give? You apparently _want_ food and drink and shelter and to be free of work and pain--and you probably want pleasure and comfort and a pet cat and other things. But what do you have to offer in exchange for those things?

If you've got a serious medical condition that calls for your being cared for, then get that care. If you don't--if you're healthy and able to function--then you need to offer something in exchange for the things you want or need. So, what kinds of things would you want to offer? What do you have to give? What talents or skills would you like to develop and use for others' benefit?


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## Xix (Sep 20, 2014)

What is the nature of this physical pain you experience that is inhibiting your desires?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> To elaborate, it's not a cognitive problem, not a case of a square peg not believing it can fit into a square hole. It's a compatibility problem.
> 
> And if most holes are square and some pegs are triangles, is there a problem with those pegs? Do they need to see a doctor or a psychiatrist? Must all pegs be square or else they are unhealthy?
> 
> ...


Or maybe you could be a little flexible. Why do you not want to grow or change? Why be a solid? A fixed shape. We're all different shapes in a puzzle with no picture or purpose. Why should every other part of the world have to fit around you? I am not even being judgemental. I have thought the same, and still kind of do. 

You could see yourself as a unique shape. Like a car key. It can only do one thing. Maybe two or 3. Or you can be a master key.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

FearAndTrembling said:


> This may have been answered, but why are you in physical pain?


Two chronic medical conditions that seem to have come out of nowhere. Medication isn't working for either of them. I thought about the possibility of stress causing these conditions, but I think it's probably just random as I don't see any correlation between stress and symptoms.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Or maybe you could be a little flexible. Why do you not want to grow or change? Why be a solid? A fixed shape. We're all different shapes in a puzzle with no picture or purpose. Why should every other part of the world have to fit around you? I am not even being judgemental. I have thought the same, and still kind of do.
> 
> You could see yourself as a unique shape. Like a car key. It can only do one thing. Maybe two or 3. Or you can be a master key.


I don't have the ability to control the sensations of ease or friction/pain to a large degree. Maybe very slightly, but not enough.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Xix said:


> What is the nature of this physical pain you experience that is inhibiting your desires?


The physical pain has nothing to do with it. All I said was that it causes insomnia, and that has nothing to do with it either.


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## Xix (Sep 20, 2014)

Silveresque said:


> The physical pain has nothing to do with it. All I said was that it causes insomnia, and that has nothing to do with it either.


Yet, you state your experience of it, it causes you insomnia and both interfere with the actualization of your desires. If these are not a concern, why did you mention it?


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

@Silveresque this may have been answered already, but what types of jobs have you had in the past, if you don't mind my asking? 

It may be easier for people to come up with suggestions if they knew more about past work experiences and what did (or didn't) work out for you. And why didn't they work out?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> Two chronic medical conditions that seem to have come out of nowhere. Medication isn't working for either of them. I thought about the possibility of stress causing these conditions, but I think it's probably just random as I don't see any correlation between stress and symptoms.




There is often no distinction between depression and situation. Let's say I am walking down the street and a dog lunges at me. I get scared. Is it because of the dog or my nervous system? It doesn't matter. The point is, something is wrong. 

Health and wellness are a scale. It is not like you hit some number, and are like, "There it is. I'm fine". You are unhappy with your situation. It is either true or it isn't. 

There is no way to know where it begins and ends. Mental problems are great mimics. Anxiety for example can appear as almost anything there is. Urinary problems. Digestive problems. Pain. Fatigue. One problem can cause about 50 others. 

People with panic disorders, is not much different than war PTSD. Your body doesn't know the difference. A person living in anxiety every day can be as psychologically damaging as being in a war zone every day.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

p55carroll said:


> Y'know, I think that if you just turn that triangular piece a bit, it'll fit into the square hole. (Maybe not, but worth a try.)
> 
> On a serious note, what do you have to give? You apparently _want_ food and drink and shelter and to be free of work and pain--and you probably want pleasure and comfort and a pet cat and other things. But what do you have to offer in exchange for those things?
> 
> If you've got a serious medical condition that calls for your being cared for, then get that care. If you don't--if you're healthy and able to function--then you need to offer something in exchange for the things you want or need. So, what kinds of things would you want to offer? What do you have to give? What talents or skills would you like to develop and use for others' benefit?


I don't really want to just be depending on others and not pulling my own weight, I do want to do what's expected of me. And I am healthy enough to function. 

As for what I have to offer, I suppose I might be good at teaching. In high school I started a Japanese Language Club and was teaching other students Japanese while teaching myself. I eventually lost interest in languages though, I guess because I realized I'd still in all that time hardly made any progress, and that even if I reached a decent degree of fluency I still wouldn't be confident that I'm always wording things in a correct, natural sounding way in that language. I'd never have native proficiency. And I don't think I'd like teaching in a classroom. And I'm probably not knowledgeable enough in any one subject to be teaching it anyways.

And I think I'd be good at photography too, but it really is hard to make a living that way, especially starting out. It's extremely competitive and requires good business skills which I lack. Not to mention it would take quite a while to develop photography skills.

I ended up in a counseling psychology graduate program because I like problem solving and I'm very understanding and nonjudgmental. And I sort of like counseling, but I think seeing 20+ clients per week would just be extremely draining for me and I wouldn't like that at all. Even working part time as a therapist sounds like too much. And I don't like the level of uncertainty involved in therapy, I'd rather clearly know what to expect and what's expected of me. 

I don't know what I have to offer. Hmm. I'm thinking that counseling and teaching are perhaps not really for me, that I need a solitary job that suits me better. Maybe what I have to offer is my rather extreme introversion, which is probably what stands out about me the most. I have the ability to live in complete solitude, I do not get lonely. A job that would normally be too lonely and isolated for others would be just right for me.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Xix said:


> Yet, you state your experience of it, it causes you insomnia and both interfere with the actualization of your desires. If these are not a concern, why did you mention it?


Because it was relevant in the context of truck driving. Insomnia won't interfere much with most jobs but with that one it will.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


> @_Silveresque_ this may have been answered already, but what types of jobs have you had in the past, if you don't mind my asking?
> 
> It may be easier for people to come up with suggestions if they knew more about past work experiences and what did (or didn't) work out for you. And why didn't they work out?


Both were fast food jobs, neither was my choice. That is probably one of the worst possible types of jobs for me because it requires being constantly busy with repetitive tasks and being under supervision. It's like being forced to stay underwater until I drown. I need to come up for air but I can't because I must keep working. I need autonomy over my own energy and physical states, and many jobs do not allow that.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

FearAndTrembling said:


> There is often no distinction between depression and situation. Let's say I am walking down the street and a dog lunges at me. I get scared. Is it because of the dog or my nervous system? It doesn't matter. The point is, something is wrong.
> 
> Health and wellness are a scale. It is not like you hit some number, and are like, "There it is. I'm fine". You are unhappy with your situation. It is either true or it isn't.
> 
> ...


That's pretty much exactly how I understand health and wellness. 

My current life situation is stressful and it is possible that stress could be causing these conditions, but there's no way to really confirm that right now. But since there's no evidence that they're caused by stress in my situation, the default assumption would be that they're not. But who knows.

At any rate, the only way for me to truly get rid of that stress is to fix my future. I won't feel safe until I have a plan, a job that works for me.


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## imaphoenix (Sep 11, 2012)

@_Silveresque_
Well being homeless or depending on someone else to take care of you is just as much if not more of an enslavement than working. You'd just be at the mercy of others.That fact in and of itself should motivate you to try to find a way to support _yourself_. Or if you insist on being lazy and entitled to exist on the merits of others at least do something that gives you some independence and a higher payout.

Sounds like a prostitute (or even better, a porn star) is the perfect career for you. You get to control the level of interaction and your income level - you say who, how much, how often etc. That way you don't have to trouble yourself to actually do real work - it,s a pretty high bang for your buck - literally. Then you can spend the rest of your free time daydreaming and playing video games - alone. 

And maybe when you're takin it up the ass by 2 guys (earning a small fortune in the process) you might have a moment of clarity and really ask yourself if there are better ways to make a living. Then maybe a school counselor or any other "vanilla" career won't seem so bad after all. But then again maybe your moment of clarity will be that porn/prostitution IS your true calling. No shame in that, after all it does fill a need, pays well, is a means to an end, and for the most part keeps you independent.

But first things first, get out of grad school, it's an unnecessary waste of resources.

OT: What is your MBTI, that may also be helpful in choosing a career path. I get the vibe you're either ISFP, or ISFJ, am I right?


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

imaphoenix said:


> @_Silveresque_
> Well being homeless or depending on someone else to take care of you is just as much if not more of an enslavement than working. You'd just be at the mercy of others.That fact in and of itself should motivate you to try to find a way to support _yourself_. Or if you insist on being lazy and entitled to exist on the merits of others at least do something that gives you some independence and a higher payout.


It's because I don't want that that I've started this thread to find a better solution. Don't be so quick to judge. 



> Sounds like a prostitute (or even better, a porn star) is the perfect career for you. You get to control the level of interaction and your income level - you say who, how much, how often etc. That way you don't have to trouble yourself to actually do real work - its a pretty high bang for your buck - literally. Then you can spend the rest of your free time daydreaming and playing video games - alone.
> 
> And maybe when you're takin it up the ass by 2 guys (earning a small fortune in the process) you might have a moment of clarity and really ask yourself if there are better ways to make living. Then maybe a school counselor or any other "vanilla" career won't seem so bad after all. But then again maybe your moment of clarity will be that porn/prostitution IS your true calling. No shame in that, after all it does fill a need, pays well, is a means to and end, and for the most part keeps you independent.


If you're here to insult rather than understand the situation and offer reasonable suggestions, please step out of this thread.


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## imaphoenix (Sep 11, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> It's because I don't want that that I've started this thread to find a better solution. Don't be so quick to judge. If you're here to insult rather than understand the situation and offer reasonable suggestions, please step out of this thread.


I'm not judging. And I did offer a solution. Let me explain my reasoning for the suggestion, so that is more easily digestible. 

1. You stated that you can't tolerate work, so you would rather resort to homelessness or finding someone to take care of you.
I offered a better solution that those. You want to resort to laziness and dependence because you can't be bothered to find traditional ways to work/make a living. So going off of those preferences (homelessness or gold digging), I am pointing out that it would be worse/to your determent to choose those paths because you would be at the mercy of others. Homelessness is not comfortable for one, and two you have to resort to begging to survive, not very stable. Gold digging is also a risky form of dependency because men who are attracted to these scenario are usually the type of men who are domineering, controlling, and will likely want other women to toy around with. So you will not have much control or stability over your own life, you will always be worrying about what you have to do to please him and where is he/who is he sleeping with/when will he leave me for his new doormat. 

2. The solution I offered - prostitution/porn is at least a better alternative than the ones you suggested. Because it takes little effort, pays well, and it keeps you independent, not dependent. You make your own schedule, set your own prices, and you don't have the insecurity of worrying about homelessness or when your gold-digging mark will walk out on you. It's a much more honorable profession than those two also, because at least you are working for a living.

It's a win-win, nothing insulting about it. Problem solved.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

imaphoenix said:


> I'm not judging. And I did offer a solution. Let me explain my reasoning for the suggestion, so that is more easily digestible.


It's not what you said so much as how you said it. It has condescension and judgment written all over it. Even your second post here has it. I don't see your posts as genuine attempts at being helpful. I'll say it once more: please step out if you're not interested in being helpful.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

*GASP*


I feel the same exact way. I freaking hate working.

Actually, It's not so much that I hate working itself; but in fact, the way in which most work environments seem to be, and by in large set-up and run. Also, I find that most work politics's are pretty dreadful, when it comes to the social sphere. 

I often find myself wishing that there were more hours in a day or something. Then it wouldn't make me resent having to spent all of my time doing something that seems irrelevant and pointless to me.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

This song always cheers me up!


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> Nope, I don't really do much in my free time.
> 
> 
> 
> Sleep. Lounge around. Daydream. Kill time browsing the forum. If I had a lot of time, maybe play video games.


HEY! I used to play lots of video games too, actually, I look back now, and I think that I wasted years of my life only playing videogames, and most of the time it was because I had else to do. 

But when I stopped playing them, and in fact, decided to stop and avoid all of the activities and behaviors I used to just simply to distract and waste time, because I knew that deep down I was very unhappy, and unfulfilled and I didn't know why. 

I eventually sort of just started experimenting, and it really helped me to understand myself :shocked:

Now I actually sort of like being proactive, and working towards my goals. 

But I still get kind of down on the whole thing; like, what does any of it matter? 
I have for the last two years had a relapse in my depression, I think predominately because of just how rude and vile much of the world is. 

It's like, most people are big-fat headed, lizard crawling, fat necked, mouth drooling assholes. And are best to be avoided. They are like slimy slug humped backed scums of the earth, who only want to see their misery and hatred spread merrily across the land like a rainbow of brown shit!

ARGH!


Anyway, it's better now. Think positive!












Oh I forgot, edit: Most of my motivation now is to work, and make enough money so that I can thus, free myself from the hordes of donkey-faced jerks that madly propagate the land, and merrily spread their hatred! yay! so happy!

because more money=more ways of blocking out the majority of the world!


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

imaphoenix said:


> @_Silveresque_
> Well being homeless or depending on someone else to take care of you is just as much if not more of an enslavement than working. You'd just be at the mercy of others.That fact in and of itself should motivate you to try to find a way to support _yourself_. Or if you insist on being lazy and entitled to exist on the merits of others at least do something that gives you some independence and a higher payout.
> 
> Sounds like a prostitute (or even better, a porn star) is the perfect career for you. You get to control the level of interaction and your income level - you say who, how much, how often etc. That way you don't have to trouble yourself to actually do real work - it,s a pretty high bang for your buck - literally. Then you can spend the rest of your free time daydreaming and playing video games - alone.
> ...


I'm guessing you are speaking from much hard-earned wisdom and experience, yes?


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> HEY! I used to play lots of video games too, actually, I look back now, and I think that I wasted years of my life only playing videogames, and most of the time it was because I had else to do.
> 
> But when I stopped playing them, and in fact, decided to stop and avoid all of the activities and behaviors I used to just simply to distract and waste time, because I knew that deep down I was very unhappy, and unfulfilled and I didn't know why.
> 
> I eventually sort of just started experimenting, and it really helped me to understand myself :shocked:


Well, I don't really play video games anymore these days, except every once in a while. Nowadays I just browse PerC and think/daydream and occasionally watch television to get out of my head.

What do you mean by "experimenting"?


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> Well, I don't really play video games anymore these days, except every once in a while. Nowadays I just browse PerC and think/daydream and occasionally watch television to get out of my head.
> 
> What do you mean by "experimenting"?


I don't know, I just did lots of crazy things that I would have never thought of before. I traveled, tried opening my mind to experiences, and people who I would have normally avoided, or made my mind up about right away. I tried learning things that I always wanted to/and or would have given up on, and I worked jobs that I hated, wasn't suited for. 

But I suppose if anything, perhaps trying to no to avoid or numb yourself, or your problems too much, and be aware of what's going on with you. Perhaps keeping a journal would help with this...

I'm not an expert, though!


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## with water (Aug 13, 2014)

Take the path of the backdoor. Become a consultant or make up a job or something. Something nonlinear could be fun. Think like Franklin.


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## Ziwosa (Sep 25, 2010)

@Silveresque

If it's of any help, keep in mind that whatever situation you're in now. It is not permanent.
Give or take 10-30 years and the world will have changed to such degree that 'work' as they talk about in this thread will be a thing of a past. Due to technological advancements and the resulting automation.

For me, this knowledge has always been a big permanent boost. Knowing that nothing is permanent and that regardless of what I'm doing, things will still change.

We are living in very exciting times, drastic political, economical and sociological changes are coming. And if you don't kill yourself or die in some other unnatural way, you'll be there to experience all of it.

Since this isn't really the place for it, PM me if you want to know more about the exciting near future.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Ziwosa said:


> @_Silveresque_
> 
> If it's of any help, keep in mind that whatever situation you're in now. It is not permanent.
> Give or take 10-30 years and the world will have changed to such degree that 'work' as they talk about in this thread will be a thing of a past. Due to technological advancements and the resulting automation.
> ...


Are there enough meaningful jobs out there that would take their place though? It's scary to think that we would all become fat slobs who sit around all day.

Maybe it would become like the Truman show, and we'd all secretly get lied to and told that the economy is still real, and that all of those jobs still matter, because deep down, the government doesn't think we are capable of taking care of ourselves, and the world would turn into a war torn savage wasteland. It would be like mad-max. 

And well...they already have a market on that.


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## Ziwosa (Sep 25, 2010)

GhostShadow said:


> Are there enough meaningful jobs out there that would take their place though? It's scary to think that we would all become fat slobs who sit around all day.


Humans value humans and therefor also their creations, therefor all forms of art will always be meaningful.

For everything else I don't see a bright future.

But hey, wouldn't it be wonderful if no one needed to do anything and everyone would be free to self explore and express themselves?


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

*I'm in the same kind of situation, working a job I hate, struggling towards getting out of this situation and building a life for myself in the process. *

@Silveresque

*One needs 3 things to be content:* 
1. Autonomy (to be free to make your own choices & decisions)
2. Purpose (to have a reason for working) This can be non work related. Some ppl work because they love their kids etc..
3. Mastery (to constantly learn and evolve in the career).. and you can't do this without liking what you do, furthermore the results of your work will be sub-par.

Without these the career will depress you regardless what it is and you certainly won't find it at Walmart or McDonalds.

From experience I can tell that without going out there, getting a job, getting involved and getting burned bad, going through a depressive phase or ten which then pushes you towards getting over the ideal and adopting an "I will make it and I'll sweat blood till I do!" approach ...not much will change.

*“you must be ready to burn yourself in your own flame;
how could you rise anew if you have not first become ashes?”
― Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra *

@hal0hal0 While I agree with many things you said, I don't agee with compromise and settling for a shitty situation because 1% of the time things are ok. Imo one should grin and bear a bad situation while working towards one that is less shitty or puts you in a situation where you can have the 3 above mentioned features of a good situation.

Giving up, sounds like stagnation. One should never stagnate, not even on one's death bed.

*“Everyone who has ever built anywhere a new heaven first found the power thereto in his own hell.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche*

*If I learned anything is that life owes me nothing, gives me nothing and anything I want for myself I will have to take or earn. This is possible, because despite all the crap not under my control events that happen to me <.< I'm still the captain of my own ship.*

^^ I also recommend reading Nietzsche & Faust.

*“There are but two roads that lead to an important goal and to the doing of great things: strength and perseverance. Strength is the lot of but a few priveledged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, Faust*


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> Are there enough meaningful jobs out there that would take their place though? It's scary to think that we would all become fat slobs who sit around all day.


It is! But there are a lot of jobs out there that I don't think are going anywhere where you really can't sit around all day. Nurses, medical technicians, and doctors in most specialties of medicine; police; plumbers, construction workers, electricians, welders, mechanics; massage therapists, chiropractors, physical and occupational therapists; most managers; many scientists and researchers; engineers and quality inspectors; captains, pilots; teachers, professors, and school support staff; foresters, park rangers, lawn care specialists; and of course many artists. 

_Plus ça change, plus c'est pareil_ - the more things change, the more they remain the same. While in many ways we are moving into more information technology and internet-mediated communication, I think humans remain fundamentally physical, sensual creatures who need body stimulation, some physical freedom, and person-to-person interaction. I tend to think that a core of jobs having these attributes will tend to stick around even as others come and go.


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## p55carroll (Oct 9, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> I don't really want to just be depending on others and not pulling my own weight, I do want to do what's expected of me. And I am healthy enough to function.


That's good to hear! Because of your tone, I was worried about those things.



> As for what I have to offer, I suppose I might be good at teaching. In high school I started a Japanese Language Club and was teaching other students Japanese while teaching myself. I eventually lost interest in languages though, I guess because I realized I'd still in all that time hardly made any progress, and that even if I reached a decent degree of fluency I still wouldn't be confident that I'm always wording things in a correct, natural sounding way in that language. I'd never have native proficiency.


I'm a lifelong language hobbyist (and I'm sixty, so it hasn't been a short life). Learning languages is hard, and as you say, there's no end to it. That tends to discourage me too. But if you love languages and have even moderate aptitude for learning and teaching, it can be very rewarding (personally and intellectually; I don't know about financially) if you stick with it. For me, there have always been ups and downs: I'll get discouraged or lose interest, then take it up again later. In spite of that, I've made some progress. You can too.



> And I don't think I'd like teaching in a classroom. And I'm probably not knowledgeable enough in any one subject to be teaching it anyways.
> 
> And I think I'd be good at photography too, but it really is hard to make a living that way, especially starting out. It's extremely competitive and requires good business skills which I lack. Not to mention it would take quite a while to develop photography skills.


Nobody starts out with skills. You sound smart and capable, so you can develop skills in any field you choose.

Competition is another of those things that always scared me away, back when I was looking for a career path. I figured that if a field was "competitive," I wouldn't stand a chance due to my timidity; I'd be like a minnow among sharks. But when I got out into the working world and started doing things, out of necessity, I was surprised to find that my ability and enthusiasm often put me in demand. In a sense, the competition fled when I approached. Often there's competition just because a lot of people want to do a particular thing. But most people are mediocre and lazy. Just a small amount of enthusiasm and determination can get you through a lot more than you might imagine.



> I ended up in a counseling psychology graduate program because I like problem solving and I'm very understanding and nonjudgmental. And I sort of like counseling, but I think seeing 20+ clients per week would just be extremely draining for me and I wouldn't like that at all. Even working part time as a therapist sounds like too much. And I don't like the level of uncertainty involved in therapy, I'd rather clearly know what to expect and what's expected of me.


Yeah, there's something else we have in common. I've always shied away from any job that would put me in front of a classroom or have me interacting with people all day. My wife tells me "distance education" would be ideal for me; then I could be the teacher I naturally am without having to deal with people face-to-face. You're clearly a good writer and thinker yourself, so maybe something like that would work for you.

Also, I can relate to the desire for certainty. I'm an INFP, not an ISFJ, but my enneagram type is Six--and Sixes are worry-warts who always want more certainty and stability. Luckily, many work situations are like that. Any organization that wants its employees working in a controlled environment is going to have jobs that involve getting a specific assignment and being expected to fulfill just what's requested. 



> I don't know what I have to offer. Hmm. I'm thinking that counseling and teaching are perhaps not really for me, that I need a solitary job that suits me better. Maybe what I have to offer is my rather extreme introversion, which is probably what stands out about me the most. I have the ability to live in complete solitude, I do not get lonely. A job that would normally be too lonely and isolated for others would be just right for me.


i know--lighthouse keeper! Do they have those anymore? Probably not. Guess they're all automated now.

Anyway, I'm like you in that respect too. In college I considered getting into library science, thinking of the quiet, solitary librarians I had known, growing up. Working on my own has always been my preference--up to a point. Despite my extreme reservedness, I'm really a people person, so I need small doses of human contact throughout the day.

What I ended up with--and I just fell into it; I didn't plan it--was proofreading and then editing. I spent fifteen years working as a proofreader. It's a mostly solitary job that requires a lot of close attention to detail. It can be tedious, which is why many people stay away from it. And the pay is usually pretty low--but enough to live on, if you get into the right situation. As a proofreader, I was always querying the editors, and I ended up learning copyediting almost automatically as I went along. When a vacancy appeared, I was a shoe-in to become an editor. Editing is a lot like proofreading, but with more freedom to make changes. Also, part of my job now involves reading and evaluating manuscripts--deciding which ones are worth publishing. I sit at a desk all day, mostly by myself even though I share a cubicle with another editor. Most of my work is pretty straightforward: a job (a folder full of papers) arrives at my desk, and it's clear what needs to be done with it; I do the work and move the job on to the next person in line.

Do you think you could do that kind of work?


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

FreeBeer said:


> @_hal0hal0_ While I agree with many things you said, I don't agee with compromise and settling for a shitty situation because 1% of the time things are ok. Imo one should grin and bear a bad situation while working towards one that is less shitty or puts you in a situation where you can have the 3 above mentioned features of a good situation.
> 
> Giving up, sounds like stagnation. One should never stagnate, not even on one's death bed.


? Either you are putting words in my mouth or I misspoke.

I don't believe in permanent situations and I never said someone should stagnate. I don't think I ever want to stay in the same job, because that would get boring. I'm a bit of a drifter and always have been, so what helps me is thinking that "settling" is really only a temporary thing. To me, there is no destination, just stepping stones. What I was saying is I prefer to think: 

hey, I'll try this for a few years and even if I don't like it, I can try something else afterwards and, in the meantime, have a bit of income. Thus, I don't believe, personally, in "building a career" like it's some monument of my life. It's just a thing to do.

What I was saying regarding the 99%/1% was that, sorry, you sometimes have to start at the bottom or in a shitty situation. I thought improvement was a given, but that was an assumption on my part. Nothing is permanent.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

@FreeBeer I definitely agree with this, well said...



> From experience I can tell that without going out there, getting a job, getting involved and getting burned bad, going through a depressive phase or ten which then pushes you towards getting over the ideal and adopting an "I will make it and I'll sweat blood till I do!" approach ...*not much will change.*


 @Silveresque if the only two jobs you have tried are fast food places then... try something else! My honest advice is: Get your feet wet and actually try a variety of jobs. It's a messy process, finding the ideal fit, but as FreeBeer was saying, you kind of have to put yourself out there and test the waters. Maybe a small business where things aren't so hectic and more relaxed. *Some* income is rather nice. Corporate like Walmart/McDonald's will always push productivity, I find, so those will feel like being in an assembly line.

I feel like you are blaming/self-defeating with Si as well tbh (and I thought you were ISTP??? confused), ... While I agree that different types have *some* preference in the types of jobs or why they might crave certain environments, isn't part of the point of Psychological Types in identifying where our reservations might lie? Introverts want the outer reality to "bend" to their subjective ideal, whereas extroverts tend to "flow" with the outer reality better. Both can learn from each other.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> I don't have the ability to control the sensations of ease or friction/pain to a large degree. Maybe very slightly, but not enough.


You can though maybe. If you had bloodwork and other tests done, got some exercise, maybe even look into allergies. This condition could disappear. People can suffer for years over the smallest problem. But it is so hard to find. Medicine is so difficult. It is the ultimate guessing game. To find what is wrong with you. Wow. lol. I mean seriously. Modern medicine cannot even cure my eustachian tube. It can't help me. lol. My asthma or allergies either. They got nothing. Or for nearly any other condition. 

'The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.'

-Voltaire


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> That's pretty much exactly how I understand health and wellness.
> 
> My current life situation is stressful and it is possible that stress could be causing these conditions, but there's no way to really confirm that right now. But since there's no evidence that they're caused by stress in my situation, the default assumption would be that they're not. But who knows.
> 
> At any rate, the only way for me to truly get rid of that stress is to fix my future. I won't feel safe until I have a plan, a job that works for me.


You require long term stability. Life does not offer that. 

It reminds me of Mark Twain. 

"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first."

or does it? That sounds like an extrovert quote to me. Either way, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. 

"In the fight between you and the world, back the world."

-Kafka

It is bigger and stronger. It can be weakened in the later rounds though. You gotta wait it out sometimes.

Muhammad Ali. He said he never thought he was the greatest. He just said he was. And said it before he believed it. That is why he is The Greatest. 

'I hated every minute of training, but I said, 'Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'

And he did. But don't go into boxing, it will make you stupid.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Silveresque said:


> Based on past experiences and what I know about myself, I seem to be unable to tolerate working. Unless I can find a job that is largely passive (like school where I just sit in class mostly), working is very likely to make me extremely unhappy and depressed.
> 
> How am I supposed to survive if I can't tolerate working? I think my only options would be to find someone who can take care of me or to find a tolerable way to live as a homeless/jobless person. I think the first one would be very difficult and I'm not sure how viable the latter is.
> 
> ...


My first reaction to this post was: Wauw, a lazy person that's not ashamed to admit it.

Thinking you´re not able to tolerate working, while you have zero experience actually working. It sounds all strange and the only way to make sense of it is the conclusion that this is just a very lazy person.....

But something doesn't make sense in this conclusion:


22 and studying psychology. That does require work, just not organized work in the sense of having tasks that have to be performed according to a schedule.
Very well aware of the negative aspects of not having a job (lack of money) and actually being worried about this and caring about the future.
Realizes that being a housewife is the one option that could work. (but doesn't believe she can find someone that would have her.)

What to think of this?


Here's an idea for a passive job:
(Museum) Night Guard ( I'm an art museum night guard â€” Hopes&Fears â€” flow "What Do You Do" )


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

angelfish said:


> It is! But there are a lot of jobs out there that I don't think are going anywhere where you really can't sit around all day. Nurses, medical technicians, and doctors in most specialties of medicine; police; plumbers, construction workers, electricians, welders, mechanics; massage therapists, chiropractors, physical and occupational therapists; most managers; many scientists and researchers; engineers and quality inspectors; captains, pilots; teachers, professors, and school support staff; foresters, park rangers, lawn care specialists; and of course many artists.
> 
> _Plus ça change, plus c'est pareil_ - the more things change, the more they remain the same. While in many ways we are moving into more information technology and internet-mediated communication, I think humans remain fundamentally physical, sensual creatures who need body stimulation, some physical freedom, and person-to-person interaction. I tend to think that a core of jobs having these attributes will tend to stick around even as others come and go.


Here is a fun link where you can select your work category and then your job to see if it will be automated or not. Looks like most office jobs and a lot of jobs where a driver is required or production-line monotone work situation jobs will be automated.

Link: Will Your Job Be Done By A Machine? : Planet Money : NPR

There are a lot of jobs which cannot be done by machines ... most are in the creative fields or where complex problem solving, human interaction and physical dexterity is required.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

hal0hal0 said:


> ? Either you are putting words in my mouth or I misspoke.
> 
> I don't believe in permanent situations and I never said someone should stagnate. I don't think I ever want to stay in the same job, because that would get boring. I'm a bit of a drifter and always have been, so what helps me is thinking that "settling" is really only a temporary thing. To me, there is no destination, just stepping stones. What I was saying is I prefer to think:
> 
> ...


Sry it seemed to me that you were resigning yourself to your "fate". I misinterpreted what you said.

Personally I have a goal. I want to be as free as I possibly can and for that to happen I need to reach certain milestones. Career-wise its unimportant as I don't plan to work under other people more then its necessary and resource-wise I only require enough to live decently & to provide for my atm non existing family.

For me freedom and the ability to enjoy the time I have is important. (enjoyment is subjective ofc.)


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> I don't know, I just did lots of crazy things that I would have never thought of before. I traveled, tried opening my mind to experiences, and people who I would have normally avoided, or made my mind up about right away. I tried learning things that I always wanted to/and or would have given up on, and I worked jobs that I hated, wasn't suited for.
> 
> But I suppose if anything, perhaps trying to no to avoid or numb yourself, or your problems too much, and be aware of what's going on with you. Perhaps keeping a journal would help with this...
> 
> I'm not an expert, though!


Hm well I'm pretty sure I already know what types of things I like and dislike, and I'm not actually avoiding or numbing myself or my problems at all. (Are you a 9, perhaps?)


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

p55carroll said:


> Nobody starts out with skills. You sound smart and capable, so you can develop skills in any field you choose.
> 
> Competition is another of those things that always scared me away, back when I was looking for a career path. I figured that if a field was "competitive," I wouldn't stand a chance due to my timidity; I'd be like a minnow among sharks. But when I got out into the working world and started doing things, out of necessity, I was surprised to find that my ability and enthusiasm often put me in demand. In a sense, the competition fled when I approached. Often there's competition just because a lot of people want to do a particular thing. But most people are mediocre and lazy. Just a small amount of enthusiasm and determination can get you through a lot more than you might imagine.


If I were in more stable conditions where I already had a job or a backup plan, then pursuing photography might be an option for me. I don't think it would be impossible, at least, but it doesn't seem like a very good idea to pursue photography with nothing else to fall back on. 



> i know--lighthouse keeper! Do they have those anymore? Probably not. Guess they're all automated now.


Lighthouse Keeper | Inside Jobs - Looks like there still are some light keeper jobs! 

Hm, there's no Youtube video on what the career is like. But it's a possibility. I do like the idea of me in a tower at night on a beach, sounds somehow very me.



> What I ended up with--and I just fell into it; I didn't plan it--was proofreading and then editing. I spent fifteen years working as a proofreader. It's a mostly solitary job that requires a lot of close attention to detail. It can be tedious, which is why many people stay away from it. And the pay is usually pretty low--but enough to live on, if you get into the right situation. As a proofreader, I was always querying the editors, and I ended up learning copyediting almost automatically as I went along. When a vacancy appeared, I was a shoe-in to become an editor. Editing is a lot like proofreading, but with more freedom to make changes. Also, part of my job now involves reading and evaluating manuscripts--deciding which ones are worth publishing. I sit at a desk all day, mostly by myself even though I share a cubicle with another editor. Most of my work is pretty straightforward: a job (a folder full of papers) arrives at my desk, and it's clear what needs to be done with it; I do the work and move the job on to the next person in line.
> 
> Do you think you could do that kind of work?


I've done proofreading and editing before because my mom is a writer. I prefer proofreading for errors/typos over editing, and I'd probably be fairly good at it. But the problem is I don't like reading. So probably not the best career for me.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


> I feel like you are blaming/self-defeating with Si as well tbh (and I thought you were ISTP??? confused), ... While I agree that different types have *some* preference in the types of jobs or why they might crave certain environments, isn't part of the point of Psychological Types in identifying where our reservations might lie? Introverts want the outer reality to "bend" to their subjective ideal, whereas extroverts tend to "flow" with the outer reality better. Both can learn from each other.


What do you mean? How am I being blaming/self-defeating with Si? This problem existed long before I typed as an Si type, and quite frankly Si has little to do with the problem itself though it does influence what I look for in a career to some extent. 

Wanting reality to bend to a subjective ideal sounds rather Rational, don't you think? More Ji than Pi. I don't identify with that at all, in general. I believe I've said in this thread more than once that I'm not an idealist.

And how am I being "blaming/self-defeating"? I haven't blamed myself or anyone else for this problem, not even once. And if I were truly self-defeating, do you think I would be making this thread to seek solutions?


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

FearAndTrembling said:


> You can though maybe. If you had bloodwork and other tests done, got some exercise, maybe even look into allergies. This condition could disappear. People can suffer for years over the smallest problem. But it is so hard to find. Medicine is so difficult. It is the ultimate guessing game. To find what is wrong with you. Wow. lol. I mean seriously. Modern medicine cannot even cure my eustachian tube. It can't help me. lol. My asthma or allergies either. They got nothing. Or for nearly any other condition.
> 
> 'The art of medicine consists of amusing the patient while nature cures the disease.'
> 
> -Voltaire


It doesn't work like that. Ease/friction has nothing do with medical problems. o.o


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> Hm well I'm pretty sure I already know what types of things I like and dislike, and I'm not actually avoiding or numbing myself or my problems at all. (Are you a 9, perhaps?)


I don't think so, why do you ask? I just grew up in an extremely conservative repressive environment, and whilst I had always wanted to express myself etc, I was never allowed to given the tools to. I was aware of how I felt, but only in a sort of superficial matter. It was only until I dug down deep, and really just let myself go into what I was experiencing, was I actually able to express them. 


Of course, I didn't just mean that if it's an issue you have that's "blocking" you somewhat, perhaps it's not numbing, but something else that's getting in the way...

But that's not what I consciously see from what you have written, just a random suggestion. 

I like to daydream a lot, too. Do you like writing, or doodling? sometimes that's what I do with them...


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Peter said:


> My first reaction to this post was: Wauw, a lazy person that's not ashamed to admit it.
> 
> Thinking you´re not able to tolerate working, while you have zero experience actually working. It sounds all strange and the only way to make sense of it is the conclusion that this is just a very lazy person.....


What are you talking about? I do have experience working and it really was quite awful, no matter how much I tried to be okay with it. In fact, the very first line of the OP said "based on past experiences". 



> But something doesn't make sense in this conclusion:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can't read your mind. What is it you think is wrong with it? (By the way, being a therapist does require working with a schedule and it is very structured.) 



> Here's an idea for a passive job:
> (Museum) Night Guard ( I'm an art museum night guard â€” Hopes&Fears â€” flow "What Do You Do" )


I have considered that job already and I think it wouldn't be too bad.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> I don't think so, why do you ask? I just grew up in an extremely conservative repressive environment, and whilst I had always wanted to express myself etc, I was never allowed to given the tools to. I was aware of how I felt, but only in a sort of superficial matter. It was only until I dug down deep, and really just let myself go into what I was experiencing, was I actually able to express them.


Well, the numbing and avoiding oneself and problems made me think of Sloth, but I suppose any type may be capable of that depending on external conditions. 



> I like to daydream a lot, too. Do you like writing, or doodling? sometimes that's what I do with them...


My mom used to encourage me to write but I never really liked it enough to get into it. And I've never been inclined to doodle.


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## ShadowsRunner (Apr 24, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> Well, the numbing and avoiding oneself and problems made me think of Sloth, but I suppose any type may be capable of that depending on external conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> My mom used to encourage me to write but I never really liked it enough to get into it. And I've never been inclined to doodle.


Wtf, I've never been a sloth. 

I can't be lazy if I wanted to be, I have to be doing stuff. Having to sit around watching shitty tv shows all day is like torture to me :shocked:


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> What do you mean? How am I being blaming/self-defeating with Si? This problem existed long before I typed as an Si type, and quite frankly Si has little to do with the problem itself though it does influence what I look for in a career to some extent.


No idea. Frankly, I'm just confused. Just basing it off what you said earlier (which is confusing me, sorry, I am probably misunderstanding what you mean):



> This type of advice might work for an Se type but not for me, as an Si type. It's a fundamental difference in cognition, my mind and psychology aren't really set up to be able to take in the Se approach to life and be happy like that. Attitude and will don't have much impact on my psychological state and well-being, they don't fuel me and they don't counterbalance pain. *Rather, Si-Fe needs to find a compatible environment, one with the right content that suits the individual's needs.*


Just seemed like you were shooting down a suggestion because it "might work for Se, but not Si." 

Like I said, I'm confused. If Si is not part of the problem, why bring it up? Maybe my Se is just too simplistic to understand? Again, apologies if I am just massively misunderstanding things. I like things straightforward and clear-cut, so I'm confused.

My advice was simply: How will you know if something is compatible unless you actually try it? That's why I asked what job experience you had in the past. If 2 fast food jobs is all you've done, that's not representative of all jobs; I understand it left a bad taste in your mouth RE: working at large, but maybe try small business. I understand that you need to find something compatible and bearable, but how will you know if it's bearable unless you actually try it? I guess that's where my confusion lies.

I'm trying to give advice (which is why you made this thread), but it's frustrating when everything I suggest is either ignored or shot down with "yes, but...". Just so I'm clear:



It seems like you don't want to work with people very much?
What level of manual labor could you do? I worked as a seasonal gardener for a summer which was GREAT from the standpoint of autonomy (you basically took lunch when you wanted, and did stuff at your own pace), BUT, you need physical stamina/pace yourself.

I'll respond later. I'm technically at work right now (shhh!!!!), so need to take care of some things. Apologies if I offended you .


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> It doesn't work like that. Ease/friction has nothing do with medical problems. o.o


Of course it does. Stress is one of the biggest killers there is.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

GhostShadow said:


> Wtf, I've never been a sloth.
> 
> I can't be lazy if I wanted to be, I have to be doing stuff. Having to sit around watching shitty tv shows all day is like torture to me :shocked:


Sloth isn't laziness and it isn't an insult. It's the Passion of enneagram type 9, and it's basically the habit of falling asleep to one's life. Not saying you fit it, just saying what you said made me think of it. 

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/the-traditional-enneagram/

I'm also not trying to type you, I just wondered if you were one and you said you're not.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


> No idea. Frankly, I'm just confused. Just basing it off what you said earlier (which is confusing me, sorry, I am probably misunderstanding what you mean):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As I already said, it has nothing to do with the problem but does influence what I look for in a career. Be an Si dominant doesn't make me unable to tolerate working. But it does affect how I process things and what I psychologically need in order to be content. It's the same as Introversion, I suppose. My problem isn't caused by Introversion, but if someone suggested an Extraverted solution (ex. finding a job with friendly people I get along with so I can be energized and get through work more easily), that wouldn't work for me. 

I was actually initially somewhat angered by Gore Motel's post, then I realized there was nothing actually wrong with the post or suggestions, it was just that they wouldn't work for me based on my cognition. So that's why I mentioned Si and explained that it wouldn't for me. 



> My advice was simply: How will you know if something is compatible unless you actually try it? That's why I asked what job experience you had in the past. If 2 fast food jobs is all you've done, that's not representative of all jobs; I understand it left a bad taste in your mouth RE: working at large, but maybe try small business. I understand that you need to find something compatible and bearable, but how will you know if it's bearable unless you actually try it? I guess that's where my confusion lies.


To be honest I've never really understood the notion that one must actually try something to know whether they'll like it. It has never been true for me. I think it's more that most things I can tell without trying whether I might like them, and if it's in the "might like" category then I need to try it to confirm. 

But what happens is people suggest something for me that I can tell right away I wouldn't like, and then they say "How can you know you don't like it if you haven't tried it?" Well, I just know, as clearly as if it were a visible fact. And I've never been wrong about it. 



> It seems like you don't want to work with people very much?
> What level of manual labor could you do? I worked as a seasonal gardener for a summer which was GREAT from the standpoint of autonomy (you basically took lunch when you wanted, and did stuff at your own pace), BUT, you need physical stamina/pace yourself.


True to the first one. Second: I have so little energy (due to insomnia) that I literally have to take breaks even from sitting at my computer to go lie down.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Of course it does. Stress is one of the biggest killers there is.


Ease/friction isn't stress.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> To be honest I've never really understood the notion that one must actually try something to know whether they'll like it. It has never been true for me. I think it's more that most things I can tell without trying whether I might like them, and if it's in the "might like" category then I need to try it to confirm.


Well, sure, you don't have to say, get shot to understand you wouldn't like that. I don't need to work on an oil rig to understand I couldn't take that position either. That said: 

What _*has *_worked for you? It seems to me like the jobs you're entertaining have nothing to do with your education (i.e., lighthouse worker and truck driver), so I'm guessing the degree isn't something you plan on using?

Is fast food the only job you've had? Because I asked, and that was the response I got. So that's all I really have to work with, is fast food. Well, of course it's going to be a terrible experience, fast food basically forces its workers to be quick assembly line workers. What about:



Working in a small flower shop 
Postal service worker 
Post office work 
Janitorial work - I think this offers lots of solitude if you're up for it. 
Tutoring 
Repair computers - yeah, you'll have to talk to people, but most the time, they'll drop off their stuff and you fix it. 
Live on a deserted island and hunt/forage 
Plumber 
*Hospital work*: Work in central supply; you basically stock the crash carts with items and don't talk to people. There are so many jobs in a hospital, like low-level tech positions. 
*Medical scribe*: You just need good typing skills. Will have to interact with doc, but your job would basically be typing. 
*Seasonal gardener* (I worked at the botanic gardens... good job): It basically involves keeping things watered; it's a good deal of manual labor, but you basically work at your own. Just need stamina, but you take breaks as you need them. 
Professional mattress tester (ok, that one's a joke) 
Work in a used book store; people there are pretty chill; I'm sure the pay is pretty low, though, but it's pretty relaxed AFAIK. 
Antique shop 
Lighthouse watcher - if you're serious about this, then do it. 
*Librarian *(this actually seems ideal for you... why not? You can spend your spare time just reading and you basically check out books, keep things organized, etc.... since libraries are less and less popular these days there is probably less foot traffic, it might not be long-term, but it sounds pretty chill, IMO) 

Honestly, there are jobs everywhere, if you don't have any pride about how much you earn. I'll be blunt, though: I think most jobs you take will require some people interaction, so I think there will be very few jobs where you truly have very little people interaction. 

As far as setting your own schedule:

Get a Phd and run your own lab... research PIs do set their own schedule, but it's very stressful and you have to apply for grant money

Here's a link:
http://www.salaryexplorer.com/want-to-be-alone-jobs.php


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## Finaille (Aug 8, 2010)

You aren't alone, @Silveresque

I have this intense desire to be your friend, because I feel like when I talk about this to my husband I get a lot of the same responses I see here.

Anyways, regardless, why not quit? I'm in the same boat as you. Degree in psychology (albeit a bachelors, not in grad school). Just took a soul sucking job in human services only to find out I cannot stand the task work (paper work a dread, phone calls, conferences, yuck), personal cares, and being the responsible person. I am terrified to possibly deal with people who may hurt me (verbally or physically). So I quit. 

Now I have nothing. Even worse, now I have nothing and have upcoming hip surgery on something that should have been fixed years ago.

I don't really want to work. I don't really want to mother my child and leave a lot of the tasks to my husband. He dutifully does them. I do them because I'm supposed to do them, and I think there is this magical quality of life or grasp of life that I'm completely missing to do what other people do on a regular basis. Then I have to deal with the guilt of being lazy and lifeless. Nothing really gives me passion.

I'm using this time not working to figure out myself and it's been tough. I'm hoping if I keep pushing the things that interest me, even just the things that intrigue me a little, something will spark enough that I won't care about the bad things. I'll still have to deal with them and I'll still dislike the drudgery, yet I have hope somewhere that the answer isn't too far away. But I hear you on seeking a solution. I'm seeking like you cannot believe. It is so hard to just leave the house sometimes, and soon I'll be confined to the house for weeks recovering from my stupid surgery. 

So if psychology isn't for you, just pick something else that seems mildly tolerable (or at least, not horrifyingly disgusting) and try it. Maybe you'll suck at it. Maybe you'll surprise yourself. Maybe it will take a few (dozen) tries before you find something you can tolerate. 

Do you find people who have skill and direction irritating? In the sense of "how are they able to do things but I can't?"

Also, do your parents try to fix your mistakes? Do they take the fall of your shortcomings and try to rescue you? 

Are you addicted to Facebook? Or forums? Or TV?

What did you do as a child? Did anything inspire you or spark your heart?


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

hal0hal0 said:


> Well, sure, you don't have to say, get shot to understand you wouldn't like that. I don't need to work on an oil rig to understand I couldn't take that position either. That said:
> 
> What _*has *_worked for you? It seems to me like the jobs you're entertaining have nothing to do with your education (i.e., lighthouse worker and truck driver), so I'm guessing the degree isn't something you plan on using?
> 
> Is fast food the only job you've had? Because I asked, and that was the response I got. So that's all I really have to work with, is fast food. Well, of course it's going to be a terrible experience, fast food basically forces its workers to be quick assembly line workers. What about:


I've worked two fast food jobs, I've done plenty of yardwork and hated it (but I probably wouldn't mind gardening on my own--and at least I could say in my resume that I have experience), I've done teaching by volunteer and liked it (but probably wouldn't like classroom teaching), and I've been a research assistant and liked it though I didn't get paid. (I basically just had to give instructions to participants for like two minutes and then I could do whatever I wanted for the next 40 minutes while they were filling out questionnaires. I hated the data entry part though.)

It would be great if I could use my psychology degree, and at the time it seemed like the best major because I like creative problem solving and have high empathy. But if I'd get really drained working with people and not having much freedom or time to rest/recharge then I'm not sure how I could use it. 

To repeat what I said earlier (since this is getting to be a rather long thread), the most important aspects of a career for me are autonomy over my own time and energy, solitude (mainly because it gives more autonomy), being not too repetitive/tedious/demanding (or alternatively, providing enough freedom/empty time to do other things, like the way the research assistant job was--basically I need room to breathe and not an assembly line type of job), stability/predictability, and safety. 



> Working in a small flower shop
> Postal service worker
> Post office work
> Janitorial work - I think this offers lots of solitude if you're up for it.
> ...


Did you know you need a specialized Master's degree to become a librarian? Bookstore cashier/worker wouldn't though. But it wouldn't be ideal for me because I actually don't like reading. 

Professional mattress tester? Sign me up! Lol.  Actually there is such a job as a hotel rater, don't know how achievable that career is though. 

Living on a deserted island to hunt and forage, lol. I've always liked the idea of being stranded on an island and finding ways to survive on my own. I'd probably starve though, as I can't eat anything that still looks like an animal. The healthcare (or lack thereof) would suck too. 

Working in a small shop or office job might be okay if it isn't very busy. Working as a mailman would be pretty repetitive. I probably wouldn't mind janitorial work but is that really what I should be striving for? It might be okay temporarily while looking for a better job. Plumber doesn't appeal to me, too mechanical and I'm no mechanic. I don't have the skills or knowledge to repair computers, and it doesn't interest me. Tutoring might be okay but I'm not sure, and I don't know if there is any subject I could tutor right now.

I need to look into lighthouse watcher more because I don't know what it's like. 

I've thought about doing research but it's not for me. I especially wouldn't like the writing parts.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> Ease/friction isn't stress.


There is that square peg thing again. Yes it is. It causes stress. In a larger picture, it is. Stress is not actually a thing, it is something that other things do to us. It is a ghost. If you put a bowling ball on a bed. There is no stress. There is a bowling ball and a bed.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

FearAndTrembling said:


> There is that square peg thing again. Yes it is. It causes stress. In a larger picture, it is. Stress is not actually a thing, it is something that other things do to us. It is a ghost. If you put a bowling ball on a bed. There is no stress. There is a bowling ball and a bed.


Stress exists but ease and friction are different concepts, separate sensations. One can experience friction without stress, or stress without friction. Stress is a feeling, a mood. It's mental and influenced by many sources which can be separate from what is presently happening. Friction can feed stress. But friction itself exists only as a sensation from the immediate task. It's like moving underwater. Heaviness, resistance, suffocation.

Stress can be managed mentally to a degree because it is a mental thing, but friction is physical. Ultimately, mind and body are connected but only through serious, long-term meditation and spiritual enlightenment would friction ever actually be eliminated.

Or, I could just, you know, avoid the things that cause too much friction. Find a job that doesn't cause too much. Don't you think that's more doable and realistic? And that is what I'm doing. 

Telling me to simply "adapt" is not helpful, it isn't practical advice. I mean what is it you're actually suggesting that I do? Going to a doctor honestly makes zero sense. I mean, if math class is painful for you, should you go to a doctor?


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> Stress exists but ease and friction are different concepts, separate sensations. One can experience friction without stress, or stress without friction. Stress is a feeling, a mood. It's mental and influenced by many sources which can be separate from what is presently happening. Friction can feed stress. But friction itself exists only as a sensation from the immediate task. It's like moving underwater. Heaviness, resistance, suffocation.
> 
> Stress can be managed mentally to a degree because it is a mental thing, but friction is physical. Ultimately, mind and body are connected but only through serious, long-term meditation and spiritual enlightenment would friction ever actually be eliminated.
> 
> ...


Well it is totally against mental health and medicine in theory. A counselor challenges you. They don't just listen to you talk, and nod their head. They tell you to do the things you are scared of, or work with you to overcome them.

Like building up your immune system, exposing yourself to germs or allergens, can actually help you build immunity against those germs and allergens. Or phobias.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Well it is totally against mental health and medicine in theory. A counselor challenges you. They don't just listen to you talk, and nod their head. They tell you to do the things you are scared of, or work with you to overcome them.
> 
> Like building up your immune system, exposing yourself to germs or allergens, can actually help you build immunity against those germs and allergens.


I don't know why you think my situation has anything to do with doctors or counselors. I'm thinking at some point you must have made an assumption about my situation that isn't true. Don't know what that might be, but I can't think of any other reason why you would make this suggestion because it doesn't make any sense at all within my situation.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

It would be cool if work would be rationed and it would be possible to sell one's work time to workaholics  .


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## imaphoenix (Sep 11, 2012)

*@Silveresque so here's a recap:
Silver:* "I have decided based on my experiences (the 2 fast food jobs I've had) and knowing myself (that I am an introvert therefore I cannot interact with others; and I am a Si dom, therefore {insert excuse}) that work is and always will be intolerable for me. Based on that conclusion I am powerless to find a satisfying career and so I give up and resign myself to dependency (homelessness or finding someone else to take care of me)".

*Others:* Well have you tired these (various career options)...

*Silver:* No, none of those options could work because {every excuse in the book}( List of aforementioned excuses - I would much rather spend my time sleeping, daydreaming, going to school for a job I will never do (you know so I can carry on the pretense that it will actually lead to something), and video games). 

*Others:* Ok if those won't work what about these...you know its not a good idea to settle for dependency, would some kind of work at least be better than being at the mercy of others?

*Silver*: (thinking in her head) "What is wrong with these people offering these suggestions (that coincidentally I asked for some solutions and suggestions) as if they are viable options, don't they understand that I have already made my mind up. See point #1 - I already know I cannot tolerate work and the only solution is for superman to come and rescue me. WHY do they keep saying that the problem is me? When clearly the problem is everything else but me? I don't get it."

*Silver*: Anyway back to my grad school problem, I just can't decide if I should finish my degree or quit. I mean the fact that I have already decided that I won't be working or if I will be it won't have anything to do with my PSY degree offers me absolutely no clues as so how I should make that decision. I mean it can't be a waste of time, energy, & money could it, because I will need to write PHD on my mythical resume for one of those things they call jobs which I am certain I will not be getting.

*Others:* Yeah you should stay in school because you want to be able to put that on your resume (completely ignoring the fact that she has decided she can't tolerate work).

*Silver:* Anyway, I'm so sick of people not getting where I'm coming from. Why can't THEY see I am not the problem (how could that possibly be the case) I am here asking for solutions and all they are giving me is – gasp solutions! When obviously the only solution is superman, duh.


Another Possible solution (warning it involves work): ISFJ Personal Growth

Does this ring a bell?

*May be unable to correctly judge what really is for the best*
May be unable to acknowledge or hear anything that goes against their certainty about the "correct" or "right" way to do things
May have a tendency to blame particular persons for disturbing or upsetting "their world" by simply being who they are
*May be unable to understand verbal logic, and quickly cut off other's explanations*
May value their own certainties about the world and its problems far above others


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

@imaphoenix

Get out of my thread. You came in here, quite obviously distorting my views for the purpose of insulting/trolling and then give the excuse of "Well I did offer suggestions." Your intentions were clear from your first post, and I'm now asking you for the *third time* to leave my thread.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Silveresque said:


> I don't know why you think my situation has anything to do with doctors or counselors. I'm thinking at some point you must have made an assumption about my situation that isn't true. Don't know what that might be, but I can't think of any other reason why you would make this suggestion because it doesn't make any sense at all within my situation.


Physical pain and mental health, among other things, fit within a medical context. At least somewhat, or should be considered. I can't believe I have to even say that.

Your body is complex. You don't know what it is doing. You could have something that you don't even know exists, much less be able to recognize it.


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## EyesOpen (Apr 3, 2013)

Are you seeing a therapist at all? Sorry if this has been asked/answered..there were a lot of posts to skim through. The extreme distaste/inability to tolerate work or even really consider various work options is not normal. It may happen to people, but it is not normal. Sounds like something you need to work through. In addition, the stress possibly affecting you to the point that it is impacting daily life routines, low ability to take pleasure from activities, etc., it does sound like you may benefit from therapy services. 

What activities in your daily life do you find meaningful and/or engaging? I know you mentioned photography. Why not start engaging in that more often, whether that's through an online community, classes, or a club? Just thinking along the lines of engaging in meaningful fulfilling activities (in your own life by your own definition, not the world's) may help you start to feel a little more able and better in other areas of life such as slowly being able to tolerate work, especially in balance with engaging in fulfilling/meaningful activities outside of work. 

Another thing might be to try to schedule an appointment with a vocational rehabilitation counselor who may be able to help you find a job while taking into consideration your limitations such as insomnia (are you seeking treatment for this too? Insomnia, as I'm sure you are aware, can impact many areas of health) and stress/mental health issues. I'm not sure whether you have to have a documented disability to use them though. But they kind of specialize in helping those with limitations, disabilities, etc. find jobs that can accommodate these issues, if I'm recalling what they do correctly. 

From all all the posts, it sounds like none of us can offer you a solution that you are seeking..that's why I think some therapy could help - with a good problem-solving therapist who can walk with you through what exactly the issues are and whether there are internal or external factors that can be changed or accounted for. 

Hopefully this isn't coming off as blunt or negative. I mean this in a caring way! And really best of luck to you!


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Silveresque said:


> Some things that counterbalance pain for me are interest, solitude, and freedom from obligation.
> 
> I think what would be ideal for me is a job that gives me autonomy over my own time and energy. A solitary job would be best, and not too repetitive but not too unpredictable either.
> 
> Some jobs I know of that fit into this category are photography, art, writing, and truck driving. The first three are difficult to be successful in, and truck driving would be hard for me to get into because I don't have enough driving experience and don't even have a car to get that experience. It also requires training and getting a license, so it's not something I can just try, I would have to know I want it. (Omg, just realized if I became a trucker I could take a cat with me!)


This whole post sounds like something I would write. And I don't mean that in an egotistical way - I mean, I relate to the mindset you're having here.

I imagine you're being very pragmatic about this and have considered the possibilities extensively. It sounds like what you're missing out on primarily is the "trying stuff" part. 

I can tell you right now, part of the reason I'm pursuing acting is because when I was desperately soul-searching in a post-graduation haze, I was thinking along these lines, "I need something to do with my life that I feel I'm capable of doing." Sure, passion was involved, but it was that sink or swim feeling that if I went down a career path I couldn't cope with, I'd die a slow death of broken dreams and general lethargy. 

Even now, I'm working a part-time job that is unrelated to acting and it's a soul-crushing job. I do it because I need the money, but the main thing that gets me through it is the combination of desperation and remembering that I'm doing it so I can one day devote the majority of my working time to work that makes me feel alive.

The takeaway that I can give is that on the occasions I get to act in a way that pays me money, I'm happy just to get that one chance to act in the whole day and if money wasn't a concern, I'd probably do it for free (I did once for free, actually, as an extra). I don't enjoy the fact that on a film set, most of your time is spent sitting around waiting for things to happen. I don't enjoy having suboptimal access to food and drink, while trying to be ready at a moment's notice.

But I do it because when I get that chance to "act," it's fulfilling. It's not always "fun" exactly. Sometimes it's exhausting and repetitive. But it is fulfilling and that energizes me to seek it out again.

Also, a more physical thing to consider: If you're dealing with insomnia, I'm sure that can mutilate your energy levels. I have an imbalanced thyroid that I have to take medication for and that impacts my energy levels - you could have similar troubles.

With me and the thyroid, if I don't have my medicine for something like 7+ days, I start feeling physically exhausted. Like the energy has just been sapped out of me in a way that goes beyond anything psychological. It's a tough feeling because no amount of mental willpower has a significant impact on it. I encourage you to get your physical health checked out in whatever way you can and make sure you aren't suffering from a similar imbalance/deficiency.

P.S. I know I'm going to sound evangelist-like when I say this, but finding acting, for me, was like night and day. It's not like it fixes all of my problems, but it has helped pull me out of some of my darkest moments. 

My impression is that more than anything, you need to find something that fulfills you in a way you can't ignore. And I don't mean, "Hey, it's kind of cool sometimes." Or, "Hey, it's kind of fun." I mean, it makes you feel like you're home. It's a tough feeling to put into words.

Hell, living just to survive is a shit motivator. I don't pretend to know the details of your physical or mental health, but what I do know is that without things to look forward to, it can be very hard to get out of bed in the morning. And that applies to a lot of people.

Also also (sorry about all the additional thoughts here ) what's your relationship with anger like?


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## imaphoenix (Sep 11, 2012)

Silveresque said:


> @_imaphoenix_
> 
> Get out of my thread. You came in here, quite obviously distorting my views for the purpose of insulting/trolling and then give the excuse of "Well I did offer suggestions." Your intentions were clear from your first post, and I'm now asking you for the *third time* to leave my thread.


Isn't it lovely to be able to attribute my posts to the old catch all excuse of "trolling". It's a very easy and convenient reaction isn't it? I mean somethings got to justify your position, so it must be a troll.

You have clearly taken the position that you cannot tolerate work unless of course it is not work. That way you know you won't actually have to work but you can take shelter in your circular position and avoid any action or solution on your part. What you are really seeking is an ear tickling so you can justify your position. 

So its an ear tickling that you want, so that is what I will give. Here it is:

*@Silveresque You got that right - working is for suckers, totally intolerable. But there is hope - finding a relationship where you are not the primary breadwinner is a very viable solution that fits well with your temperament. Its good to understand this now before you exasperate yourself with any more unnecessary schooling. Your new job is now finding that someone to be the breadwinner. Get on it ASAP. Happy hunting.
*


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

EyesOpen said:


> Are you seeing a therapist at all? Sorry if this has been asked/answered..there were a lot of posts to skim through. The extreme distaste/inability to tolerate work or even really consider various work options is not normal. It may happen to people, but it is not normal. Sounds like something you need to work through. In addition, the stress possibly affecting you to the point that it is impacting daily life routines, low ability to take pleasure from activities, etc., it does sound like you may benefit from therapy services.


I do take less pleasure from activities than most people, I think. But that is normal for me, it's as I've always been even when content. I do consider this the most likely reason as to why working tends to be especially painful for me. 

I actually have tried therapy recently, to see if there might be anything behind my apathy. But there was nothing to talk about and it was going nowhere. So I tried career counseling, while continuing to introspect on my own. The career counselor wasn't helpful at all and only gave me generic advice about my major. And while I've been gaining more insight into myself and my apathy, I still haven't found any psychological solutions. 

I've had my thyroid tested as well and it's normal. I also had my vitamin B and D levels tested. B was normal and D was a bit low so I supplemented, but nothing changed. 



> What activities in your daily life do you find meaningful and/or engaging?


Posting on this forum and thinking/introspecting. 



> I know you mentioned photography. Why not start engaging in that more often, whether that's through an online community, classes, or a club? Just thinking along the lines of engaging in meaningful fulfilling activities (in your own life by your own definition, not the world's) may help you start to feel a little more able and better in other areas of life such as slowly being able to tolerate work, especially in balance with engaging in fulfilling/meaningful activities outside of work.


I've considered it but I don't really want to invest time and money into it unless I plan to become a professional photographer. I'll have to look more into how doable that is, what the costs of getting started are and likelihood of being able to make a living that way. 

I can say though that if I start investing in photography, my stress and anxiety are likely to increase until I manage to reach a point of making profit. But that's all part of the cost of investment, there's no gain without risk. 



> Another thing might be to try to schedule an appointment with a vocational rehabilitation counselor who may be able to help you find a job while taking into consideration your limitations such as insomnia (are you seeking treatment for this too?


I'm taking an anesthetic but it isn't working. I hope the next medication will work.



> From all all the posts, it sounds like none of us can offer you a solution that you are seeking..that's why I think some therapy could help - with a good problem-solving therapist who can walk with you through what exactly the issues are and whether there are internal or external factors that can be changed or accounted for.


I might try therapy again sometime in the future, or I may not, depending on how life goes. But even so, I'll need to find a job I can do in order to even pay for that therapy. So what is really helpful to me now is job suggestions. There have been a number of potentially helpful suggestions already, but I'm still looking for more if anyone has any.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

imaphoenix said:


> Isn't it lovely to be able to attribute my posts to the old catch all excuse of "trolling". It's a very easy and convenient reaction isn't it? I mean somethings got to justify your position, so it must be a troll.
> 
> You have clearly taken the position that you cannot tolerate work unless of course it is not work. That way you know you won't actually have to work but you can take shelter in your circular position and avoid any action or solution on your part. What you are really seeking is an ear tickling so you can justify your position.
> 
> ...


Well what are your intentions, if not to troll or insult? I mean, what you've done here is basically twist everything I've said into rather insulting misrepresentations. I think it's quite obvious that I'm not actually looking for a way to be dependent on others or avoid jobs, as seeking job ideas is the main thing I've been doing in this thread. I don't think you could have really misunderstood my intentions that badly. And the only "suggestions" you've offered were prostitution/porn star and a generic ISFJ careers page. There is really no reason for anyone to think you're actually here with the intention of helping.


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## Chesire Tower (Jan 19, 2013)

OP, have you ever possibly considered having some sort of desensitization counselling? It sounds like due to the negative and painful experiences with work that your parents have subjected you to, has almost resulted in a kind of aversion to working. Yes, I know that few people actually enjoy their work but it actually sounds like you have developed a deep-seated aversion to it. It isn't so much Si ,as being traumatized by what your parents put you though.

IOW, until you break the cycle between your extremely negative associations about work and your past trauma; nothing will change. There is a silver lining to his, however: You can break free from this debilitating work aversion, once you thoroughly deal with your past traumas surrounding your past work experiences.

Isn't there any psychologists or counsellors on campus who can help you with this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_aversion


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

LostFavor said:


> Also also (sorry about all the additional thoughts here ) what's your relationship with anger like?


Hm, normal, I think? I experience anger when someone offends me or someone I respect. Why do you ask?


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Karma Exterminates said:


> OP, have you ever possibly considered having some sort of desensitization counselling? It sounds like due to the negative and painful experiences with work that your parents have subjected you to, has almost resulted in a kind of aversion to working. Yes, I know that few people actually enjoy their work but it actually sounds like you have developed a deep-seated aversion to it. It isn't so much Si ,as being traumatized by what your parents put you though.
> 
> IOW, until you break the cycle between your extremely negative associations about work and your past trauma; nothing will change. There is a silver lining to his, however: You can break free from this debilitating work aversion, once you thoroughly deal with your past traumas surrounding your past work experiences.
> 
> ...


Desensitization doesn't require a counselor. I'd imagine once I find a decent/tolerable job, my attitude toward work will change. If a job is borderline tolerable, I can start out working part time and gradually increase my hours until I'm comfortable working full time, and then I won't worry anymore about being possibly unable to tolerate working. Some people in this thread have already suggested jobs that would probably be tolerable for me.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Karma Exterminates said:


> It isn't so much Si ,as being traumatized by what your parents put you though.


Also, I never said it was Si. Actually I've already explicitly said that Si has nothing to do with being unable to tolerate working.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Silveresque said:


> Hm, normal, I think? I experience anger when someone offends me or someone I respect. Why do you ask?


Was just a hunch, really. Was thinking maybe you have some repressed anger. 

I thought of it cause it's something I dealt with years ago and at the time, it was really draining me, not being honest with people about how I felt. And cause you come across as almost too calm and controlled, which reminds me of how I am when I'm trying to reel my emotions in and control them. 

Just an impression/guess, of course. I could be totally off.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

LostFavor said:


> Was just a hunch, really. Was thinking maybe you have some repressed anger.
> 
> I thought of it cause it's something I dealt with years ago and at the time, it was really draining me, not being honest with people about how I felt. And cause you come across as almost too calm and controlled, which reminds me of how I am when I'm trying to reel my emotions in and control them.
> 
> Just an impression/guess, of course. I could be totally off.


Well I don't think I'm repressing anything. It's just that my anger doesn't show much, and that type of situation wasn't really worth getting that upset about anyways. It would probably take more effort for me to show anger than to not show it. 

I did type as a 9 for quite a while in the past, and they're supposed to have repressed anger but I never did find any. So I have looked for it quite a bit.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Silveresque said:


> Well I don't think I'm repressing anything. It's just that my anger doesn't show much, and that type of situation wasn't really worth getting that upset about anyways. It would probably take more effort for me to show anger than to not show it.
> 
> I did type as a 9 for quite a while in the past, and they're supposed to have repressed anger but I never did find any. So I have looked for it quite a bit.


Ok, fair enough.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Silveresque said:


> What are you talking about? I do have experience working and it really was quite awful, no matter how much I tried to be okay with it. In fact, the very first line of the OP said "based on past experiences".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's one of your problems: Your reaction to my post is agressive. I have the impression you felt offended while if you read it right, I'm trying to show that the idea of you being lazy is wrong.

I think I get why you wouldn't be able to tolerate work very well. It looks like working (and thus interacting with people based on set rules and authority) gets you upset all the time.

Very high on empathy and no sympathy perhaps?


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Peter said:


> Here's one of your problems: Your reaction to my post is agressive. I have the impression you felt offended while if you read it right, I'm trying to show that the idea of you being lazy is wrong.
> 
> I think I get why you wouldn't be able to tolerate work very well. It looks like working (and thus interacting with people based on set rules and authority) gets you upset all the time.
> 
> Very high on empathy and no sympathy perhaps?


Your post came across offensive, so I got offended. It was also inaccurate so I corrected it. If you want to have a reasonable, respectful discussion about potential solutions, we can do that. If you're just here to make accusations and offer nothing constructive, please step out.

That being said, I agree that being lazy and not working is not the ideal way to be. So I'm looking for job suggestions, and there have been plenty of helpful ones already from several members, which I do appreciate. Are you interested in contributing to this thread constructively?


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

@Silveresque I personally recommend to not drop out of your career, as you will have higher chances of working as a school counselor if you have more years of study. It can be painful, but I suspect that it will more rewarding if you keep trying instead of dropping out and ending with a half done degree that won't help you.

About work, I think that something slower paced can be useful so you don't get stressed nor swamped with too many tasks at once. Sadly I know that some of them ask for specific degrees, so maybe something that only requires high school or something related with your career could be good options. Dunno if there are people that help psychologist or counsellors, but that could be an option for getting experience and see the pros and cons of those options. I don't know which options you can choose there, but a job that doesn't require much interaction seems like a nice option.


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## Peter (Feb 27, 2010)

Silveresque said:


> Your post came across offensive, so I got offended. It was also inaccurate so I corrected it. If you want to have a reasonable, respectful discussion about potential solutions, we can do that. If you're just here to make accusations and offer nothing constructive, please step out.
> 
> That being said, I agree that being lazy and not working is not the ideal way to be. So I'm looking for job suggestions, and there have been plenty of helpful ones already from several members, which I do appreciate. Are you interested in contributing to this thread constructively?


You are right about yourself. You shouldn't work. You just can't handle it when people are a little bit direct and to the point and say things you don't want to hear.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Thread closed per OP request.


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