# It frustrates me that no men might want to date me or want me?



## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Because I might be rated to be really really really really really really really really really really really below ! 0/10 or I'm a 1/10 on the beauty scale.


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## UnpickablePickle (Mar 17, 2019)

Regardless of what you think of yourself (and you're probably being really hard on yourself), I know I find women more attractive if they are interesting to talk to and just have an openness when it comes to conversations. There are can think of at least 3 times I've been suddenly attracted to women after having a nice hour long conversation with them yet barely noticed them before hand. 

I would imagine this is not unique to me and you should keep this in mind whilst being more aware of how awesome you can be


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

UnpickablePickle said:


> Regardless of what you think of yourself (and you're probably being really hard on yourself), I know I find women more attractive if they are interesting to talk to and just have an openness when it comes to conversations. There are can think of at least 3 times I've been suddenly attracted to women after having a nice hour long conversation with them yet barely noticed them before hand.
> 
> I would imagine this is not unique to me and you should keep this in mind whilst being more aware of how awesome you can be


This is not just about looks this is about me finding a boyfriend too.


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## UnpickablePickle (Mar 17, 2019)

I think the same thing applies, you really want to know your worth before going into a relationship so you don't get played. 

I was initially skeptical of dating apps until I tried Hinge last year and it was quite cool and more relationship focused. Maybe you should try it (not sponsored by them, just had a really good experience with it)


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

Iloveshopping said:


> Because I might be rated to be really really really really really really really really really really really below ! 0/10 or I'm a 1/10 on the beauty scale.


well, is there anything you could do to improve that?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

While there are perks to relationships, there are also responsibilities. One such is that you'll have to give up some of your shopping time, effort and money, putting them towards your relationship partner.


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## Bella2016 (Mar 5, 2013)

Iloveshopping said:


> Because I might be rated to be really really really really really really really really really really really below ! 0/10 or I'm a 1/10 on the beauty scale.


You might not be. I wonder if you are attracted to the guys who are rejecting you?


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Iloveshopping said:


> Because I might be rated to be really really really really really really really really really really really below ! 0/10 or I'm a 1/10 on the beauty scale.


Speak to your doctor. Get on a diet. Exercise. Learn about skincare. Fashion. Don't overthink it. Don't dwell on negativity. Just get it done. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain from improving your health and fitness.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Personality Cafe







www.personalitycafe.com





At some point you may want to stop complaining and take action.
Less shopping, more self care.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

@Iloveshopping looking at your past threads, you seem to obsessively stick to the one theme of "I can't find a boyfriend" or "I'm ugly", so either you're trolling us, a possibility I haven't ruled out, or you've decided to stay obsessed with the fact that you can't find someone.
Assuming the latter is true, I've been there. I used constantly vent about feeling ugly and unattractive when I was struggling to find someone. At some point, though, that quality, in itself becomes unattractive, not just to potential mates, but to people in general. If you don't like yourself, no one else will find reason to. It's important to find interests in life, to maybe focus on other things in addition to trying to find a boyfriend. You don't want to come across as overly needy, as that will repel guys. It's a bit of a paradox; it's more difficult to attract a mate if you're not in a place where you feel content as a single person, even though you know you'd prefer not to be.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

My advice still stands


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

dulcinea said:


> @Iloveshopping looking at your past threads, you seem to obsessively stick to the one theme of "I can't find a boyfriend" or "I'm ugly", so either you're trolling us, a possibility I haven't ruled out, or you've decided to stay obsessed with the fact that you can't find someone.
> Assuming the latter is true, I've been there. I used constantly vent about feeling ugly and unattractive when I was struggling to find someone. At some point, though, that quality, in itself becomes unattractive, not just to potential mates, but to people in general. If you don't like yourself, no one else will find reason to. It's important to find interests in life, to maybe focus on other things in addition to trying to find a boyfriend. You don't want to come across as overly needy, as that will repel guys. It's a bit of a paradox; it's more difficult to attract a mate if you're not in a place where you feel content as a single person, even though you know you'd prefer not to be.


Do you think it's true that I can't find a boyfriend because you said assuming the latter is true.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Two words:

Glamour Shots


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## SgtPepper (Nov 22, 2016)

Find a dating coach.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

Iloveshopping said:


> Do you think it's true that I can't find a boyfriend because you said assuming the latter is true.


I'm assuming that it's true that you're not simply trolling us.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

SgtPepper said:


> Find a dating coach.











You edited before I could post. 
But I’m leaving it. 
Although, may wanna steam clean the couch before use.


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## Angry-Spaghetti (Feb 25, 2021)

I recommend riddles, that takes women from 5 -> 8 imho. Get really gnarly piercings 8 -> 9. oh and buy a house under a bridge, that'll attract even more viable folks.


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## Fru2 (Aug 21, 2018)

Angry-Spaghetti said:


> I recommend riddles, that takes women from 5 -> 8 imho. Get really gnarly piercings 8 -> 9. oh and buy a house under a bridge, that'll attract even more viable folks.


Why go through all that trouble? She could just continue shopping, that'd definitely make things better.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

My advice is to keep shopping and ignore the haters


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Purrfessor said:


> My advice is to keep shopping and ignore the haters


I don't want to keep shopping I want a boyfriend too.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Iloveshopping said:


> I haven't tried those things yet.


What do you have to lose at this point?


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Purrfessor said:


> Im taking it seriously she uggglyyy 1/10 I believe it


Nobody is ugly because God made them for how they are.


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Coloredsky said:


> You can't say "might" and "really really really really really really really really really really really"
> 
> And then don't, the best revenge for something you can't get is to ignore it or hate it


Almost everyone else can find someone so I should be able too.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Coloredsky said:


> And then don't, the best revenge for something you can't get is to ignore it or hate it


Best is to shift your focus on what you can get or already have and be grateful for that.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Iloveshopping said:


> Almost everyone else can find someone so I should be able too.


Not if all you do is talk about it. Have you spoken to your doctor? Have you found a dietician? Have you hired a personal trainer? Are you shopping around for a professional stylist? At some point you gotta stop dwelling on it and just do what needs to be done.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> Not if all you do is talk about it. Have you spoken to your doctor? Have you found a dietician? Have you hired a personal trainer? Are you shopping around for a professional stylist? At some point you gotta stop dwelling on it and just do what needs to be done.


what needs to be done is talking with therapist. not try and change your looks to please others. won’t gonna make her happy if inside is not okay


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> what needs to be done is talking with therapist. not try and change your looks to please others. won’t gonna make her happy if inside is not okay


And just what the fuck is a therapist supposed to do about it? She doesn't need a bloody shoulder to cry on. She needs a man. And men are visual. We don't even know if she has any issues on the "inside". For all we know she is already attractive on the inside, but she's not being noticed because the packaging is putting men off.

What she needs is a treadmill and a make over. Not a fucking shrink.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> And just what the fuck is a therapist supposed to do about it? She doesn't need a bloody shoulder to cry on. She needs a man. And men are visual. We don't even know if she has any issues on the "inside". For all we know she is already attractive on the inside, but she's not being noticed because the packaging is putting men off.
> 
> What she needs is a treadmill and a make over. Not a fucking shrink.


what is a man supposed to do? tell her she's beautiful and they live happily ever after?

we don't know anything about her. she could have other issues more serious than looks. 

therapist will help her see where her thinking is wrong. no man is going to fix that. after that if she wants to take care of her looks it is her choice.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> what is a man supposed to do? tell her she's beautiful and they live happily ever after?
> 
> we don't know anything about her. she could have other issues more serious than looks.
> 
> therapist will help her see where her thinking is wrong. no man is going to fix that. after that if she wants to take care of her looks it is her choice.


Love, sex and companionship.

We know what she's told us. She wants a man. She's unattractive. What she hasn't told us is that she has mental or emotional issues. Stop assuming she's ugly on the inside.

And even if your assumption is correct and she is ugly on the inside, why does that mean she has to stay ugly on the outside too while she sees a shrink? She can't see a shrink and hit the treadmill too?

Where is the logic in ignoring a problem staring you in the face in favour of a problem that may not even exist?


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> Love, sex and companionship.
> 
> We know what she's told us. She wants a man. She's unattractive. What she hasn't told us is that she has mental or emotional issues. Stop assuming she's ugly on the inside.
> 
> ...


having issues does not mean ugly on the inside! having inside issues make her see things that are maybe not there. this thread shows it. 

outside beauty does not fix inside issues. 

no logic in assuming shes fat as if fat is only thing making people ugly and all your need is to lose fat to feel happy. ugly thinking! nobody knows what she really looks like!


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> having issues does not mean ugly on the inside! having inside issues make her see things that are maybe not there. this thread shows it.
> 
> outside beauty does not fix inside issues.
> 
> no logic in assuming shes fat as if fat is only thing making people ugly and all your need is to lose fat to feel happy. ugly thinking! nobody knows what she really looks like!


Psychological issues are not attractive. They are repulsive. Why do you feel the need to dress this up?

She said it herself. 0/10. No one is so ugly in the face that they can be a 1/10 and in descent shape.

Look. Either this girl is trolling us and having a great time reading all of this, or she has genuine issues with her weight and sense of style. A shrink isn't going to help with any of that.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

even if she has weight issues they don't come from nowhere. therapist will help with that.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> Psychological issues are not attractive. They are repulsive. Why do you feel the need to dress this up?


do you think if she has psych issues men don't see that and only see her looks? she thinks it's her looks. she thinks it's 0/10. nobody seen her to know if that's true!


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> do you think if she has psych issues men don't see that and only see her looks? she thinks it's her looks. she thinks it's 0/10. nobody seen her to know if that's true!


No. They won't. Men don't have psychoanalytic eyes. I'm sure we all wish we could tell a crazy bitch from a distance but we can't. The only thing that is clearly visible is appearance.

Why are you assuming she's a crazy person? Maybe she's ugly as fuck and is just keeping it real? Whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> even if she has weight issues they don't come from nowhere. therapist will help with that.


A medical doctor, a dietician, and a fitness trainer are all much better placed to help with weight issues. They have a far better track record. Furthermore, in the unlikely event there is a psychological problem affecting weight, a medical doctor will refer her to the right therapist.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> Why are you assuming she's a crazy person? Maybe she's ugly as fuck and is just keeping it real? Whatever happened to the benefit of the doubt.


why do you keep assuming shes fat? why do you keep assuming that everything will be great if only you have good looks? men are not idiots. she may be plain but making things worse by how she acts around men or not actually going out to meet men



ENFPathetic said:


> A medical doctor, a dietician, and a fitness trainer are all much better placed to help with weight issues. They have a far better track record. Furthermore, in the unlikely event there is a psychological problem affecting weight, a medical doctor will refer her to the right therapist.


problems with eating don't go away if you know what to eat or what to do for exercise. that is what thearpy is good for.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Here's one for you, @Iloveshopping . Go talk to him.









Why doesn't any girl like me??


Why doesn't any girl like me I've been nice, I have a good job, and I'm in good shape; I'm such a sexy handsome bastard. I'm literally my best bro buddy, So why the fuck, is it always just me when no other girl wants to get out with me? I'm 29 years old man, have been a virgin my entire life...




www.personalitycafe.com


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> why do you keep assuming shes fat? why do you keep assuming that everything will be great if only you have good looks? men are not idiots. she may be plain but making things worse by how she acts around men or not actually going out to meet men


I already answered that. Good looks won't guarantee a good relationship. But at least she'll get noticed and asked out.



SubbuS said:


> problems with eating don't go away if you know what to eat or what to do for exercise. that is what thearpy is good for.


Plenty of people follow strict diets without ever seeing a shrink.


Question for you. Let's say this woman visited her doctor, consulted a dietician and stylist, and hired a fitness trainer. A year later she's in great shape, healthier than she's ever been, and pleasing on the eye. What kind of impact do you think this would have on her internally?


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

looking good and being of physical health =/= feeling good and being of mental health. people can look good but still feel bad. that's why therapist will help. it only works if everything works together and it's good to go to therapy as you work on other things. not just do treadmill and buy new clothes and everything will be fine


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> looking good and being of physical health =/= feeling good and being of mental health. people can look good but still feel bad. that's why therapist will help. it only works if everything works together and it's good to go to therapy as you work on other things. not just do treadmill and buy new clothes and everything will be fine


As long as we agree that she needs to exercise, I have no issues with therapy. My problem is with people who think of therapy as some sort of magic solution to everything.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> As long as we agree that she needs to exercise, I have no issues with therapy. My problem is with people who think of therapy as some sort of magic solution to everything.


we can't agree because nobody know what she looks like! we can't trust what she says. you think losing weight and new clothes is magic solution or not?


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> we can't agree because nobody know what she looks like! we can't trust what she says. you think losing weight and new clothes is magic solution or not?


I give people the benefit of the doubt. I don't assume they're crazy. If she says her appearance is repulsive, I'm going to give practical advice regarding her appearance. It's not magic. It's practical and relevant.

If we're not going to take her at her word, then for all we know she's a 70 year old man and he's just fucking with us.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> I give people the benefit. I don't assume they're crazy. If she says her appearance is repulsive, I'm going to give practical advice regarding her appearance. It's not magic. It's practical and relevant.


i said that having issues does not mean she's crazy! you can't give practical advice without knowing what makes her looks so bad.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> i said that having issues does not mean she's crazy! you can't give practical advice without knowing what makes her looks so bad.


It does.

But we do know. 1/10 means everything that could be going wrong is going wrong.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> 1/10 means everything that could be going wrong is going wrong.


what if she has body dysmorphia?


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> what if she has body dysmorphia?


It depends on how severe it is. Either way, you can always improve on your appearance.


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## SubbuS (Mar 7, 2021)

ENFPathetic said:


> Either way, you can always improve on your appearance.


i guess. but doing it for others is not healthy


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

SubbuS said:


> i guess. but doing it for others is not healthy


Well you do it for yourself. In the end, you're only improving your options. Not to mention how much your body will thank you, or how much more confident you will feel in general.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

For reference, a 1/10 would look something along the lines of;


















Not bashing on them, just, you need to look equal or worse than them to even be considered a 0-1/10. Many women assume it's so easy to be a butt ugly 0-1/10 but they fail to realize that if you took the 0-1/10 spot, then where do we place these girls? More attractive than you?

Most girls who THINK they're a 0-1/10 are really 3-5/10 and IF weight is your biggest issue then you are blessed coz thats one of the easiest things you can change. 
I'm under 6 foot for example so I can't do shit about it and any girl that has the 6 foot + requirement automatically invalidates me so theres nothing I can do besides lower my rating.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Check the profile and see how for 3 years she has exactly the same attitude and nothing has changed. 
She hasn't changed because she doesn't want to. 
In 3 years, everyone changes if they have a minimum of self-respect and want a change. 

She just wants attention, don't try to give her advice because you give it in vain.
She will return in a year with exactly the same problem guaranteed.


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## Crowbo (Jul 9, 2017)

I stopped giving a fuck about relationships a while ago and am much happier as a result. You might feel better if you try the same method.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

dulcinea said:


> I used constantly vent about feeling ugly and unattractive when I was struggling to find someone. At some point, though, that quality, in itself becomes unattractive, not just to potential mates, but to people in general. If you don't like yourself, no one else will find reason to. It's important to find interests in life, to maybe focus on other things in addition to trying to find a boyfriend. You don't want to come across as overly needy, as that will repel guys. It's a bit of a paradox; it's more difficult to attract a mate if you're not in a place where you feel content as a single person, even though you know you'd prefer not to be.


Agreed! I've once thought about it and seen from couple of single male friends (I'm male too) that if you're overly worried about that topic and get stuck to the thought that you definitely need to date right here and now, other people can read out your desperation and you don't attract anyone. 

Best advice I could give to anyone is that take it easy and soon others will notice the change and things get better on their own. Experienced that by myself when I had my breakup a few years ago - initially it felt bad like a "hangover" and for some time it looked like I'll not attract anyone but once that "hangover" vanished, I noticed that suddenly, although I didn't make any visible changes (wasn't uglier or stoopid before that and didn't become more handsome later either), it worked like magic and after that I started to attract girls again without doing nearly nothing for that.


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## TheUnnecessaryEvil (Mar 28, 2021)

No person is always better than the wrong person.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

ENTJudgement said:


> For reference, a 1/10 would look something along the lines of; ...


I just came across your post by chance ... because it was visual. I think you are wrong. You are doing some statistical average from some particular perspective. (Do you follow me?) Those are women. A man with their age and from their culture (a better word is needed) who has a corresponding look might rate them a 9-10 ... perfect for me.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

TheUnnecessaryEvil said:


> No person is always better than the wrong person.


Not always but no person can be a good thing while the wrong person cant. However no person is not always a good thing so its not always better than the wrong person.


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## TheUnnecessaryEvil (Mar 28, 2021)

Purrfessor said:


> Not always but no person can be a good thing while the wrong person cant. However no person is not always a good thing so its not always better than the wrong person.


Yes.. yes always.

People nowadays are too afraid to be picky and it shows in the pathetically avoidable problems they have.


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

ENFPathetic said:


> Best is to shift your focus on what you can get or already have and be grateful for that.


It frustrates me that I probably can't find a boyfriend.


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Penny said:


> well, is there anything you could do to improve that?


I hope there is.


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Penny said:


> well, is there anything you could do to improve that?


I hope there is.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@Iloveshopping, @TheExpert is looking for a girlfriend. 









Why doesn't any girl like me??


Why doesn't any girl like me I've been nice, I have a good job, and I'm in good shape; I'm such a sexy handsome bastard. I'm literally my best bro buddy, So why the fuck, is it always just me when no other girl wants to get out with me? I'm 29 years old man, have been a virgin my entire life...




www.personalitycafe.com


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

tanstaafl28 said:


> @Iloveshopping, @TheExpert is looking for a girlfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’re doing gods work here dude.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Queen of Cups said:


> You’re doing gods work here dude.


May they find true love and happiness.


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

Iloveshopping said:


> Because I might be rated to be really really really really really really really really really really really below ! 0/10 or I'm a 1/10 on the beauty scale.


Even if you're not born with a symetrical face and your body and physique don't look good, there are many things you can do to improve your attractiveness. Especially as a woman, since women can take full advantage of make-up.

You can do things like eating healthy and exercise to be in good shape. Even if your facial beauty isn't the top, your body could become the top. And I think this is easier for women than men. An ideal man is ripped. An ideal woman is just not fat. You don't need a perfect shape to be considered physically attractive.

Having a good haircut is also a masive boost for women. For men too, but for women, a good haircut can really make the difference, you can look like completely another person with a good haircut.

Having a good clothing style can also make you more attractive. Rather than just wear that seems comfortable to you, try to wear something that looks good on you. Ideally, you'll want a balance. You don't need to be revealing to be attractive, you just need to have a good clothing style. Ideally, you should have a clothing style that says something about you, that says something about your personality, a style that sort of defines who you are, having a look that is a sign of who you are as a person, having a look that conveys something about you.

Also, wear red. For some reason red is considered the most attractive color. Whether this is cultural or genetic I don't know.

But as a woman, you have a massive advantage over men: make-up. Learn make-up tutorials from Youtube. Things like filling in your eyebrows and stuff like that.

Even if you're not born physically good-looking in a genetic way, you can make the most of your appearance and have a look.


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Dezir said:


> Even if you're not born with a symetrical face and your body and physique don't look good, there are many things you can do to improve your attractiveness. Especially as a woman, since women can take full advantage of make-up.
> 
> You can do things like eating healthy and exercise to be in good shape. Even if your facial beauty isn't the top, your body could become the top. And I think this is easier for women than men. An ideal man is ripped. An ideal woman is just not fat. You don't need a perfect shape to be considered physically attractive.
> 
> ...


This is not just about looks this about me finding a boyfriend to.


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## ESFJMouse (Oct 13, 2020)

Okay, this made me really sad. This is an old post but I thought I would comment on it as no one should feel like this. Firstly, you are being so hard on yourself, and what you are saying is untrue, I promise! Next, everyone, and I mean everyone can improve their appearance _significantly!_ Read some fashion magazines, watch some YouTube videos on make up, hair and nails. Pick a timeline to give yourself a full makeover (i.e. 12 months), plan it step by step in little increments. Your new look will take some daily time but not too much, and consider it enjoyable time on yourself. Study everything you can about beauty, and you can improve yourself by at least 4-5 points. If you improved to a 5/10 that is quite good (despite how it sounds), 5s and 6s are good. 8s and 9s are rare and really don't exsist much, and if they do it is fleeting. Better to learn the basics that will last you decades. Your new look will give you a new confidence and men will be drawn to your positive energy. It is the positive energy not the look, but you need the look to get the energy. chicken egg thing. Good luck!


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

ESFJMouse said:


> Next, everyone, and I mean everyone can improve their appearance _significantly!_ Read some fashion magazines, watch some YouTube videos on make up, hair and nails. Pick a timeline to give yourself a full makeover (i.e. 12 months), plan it step by step in little increments. Your new look will take some daily time but not too much, and consider it enjoyable time on yourself. Study everything you can about beauty, and you can improve yourself by at least 4-5 points. If you improved to a 5/10 that is quite good (despite how it sounds), 5s and 6s are good. 8s and 9s are rare and really don't exsist much, and if they do it is fleeting. Better to learn the basics that will last you decades. Your new look will give you a new confidence and men will be drawn to your positive energy. It is the positive energy not the look, but you need the look to get the energy. chicken egg thing. Good luck!


It's sad that you're right. This is how the world works. You need to change your appearance, your demeanour and your personality...to appeal to people who wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire in your current condition. Maybe the OP can overlook that, and be happy in the end.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

eeo said:


> It's sad that you're right. This is how the world works. You need to change your appearance, your demeanour and your personality...to appeal to people who wouldn't spit on you if you were on fire in your current condition. Maybe the OP can overlook that, and be happy in the end.


Read one more time.



ESFJMouse said:


> Your new look will give you a new confidence and men will be drawn to your positive energy. It is the positive energy not the look, but you need the look to get the energy.


If you still don't understand: It's about HER, not others here. And that's what the cute ESFJ said but you failed to comprehend.
She doesn't have to change anything if she is satisfied with all these: look, personality, demeanour.
A woman who feels good in her skin, with whom, what and how she is, does not encounter such problems. 

THE PERFECT EXAMPLE IS THIS: look at fat women. The ones who are happy and feel good being fat have a lot of friends and pretendents. The ones that are fat and feel awful for that (and doesn't do anything to change that) are the ones who encounter countless problems.


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

impulsenine said:


> If you still don't understand


They're telling her to change her appearance to appeal to men! By getting a new look, she will gain new confidence that is supposedly great for attracting men. How is that EVER going to make her feel good in her skin if it's done like that, for that purpose? They're two different things. One is about choosing to change into whatever you feel like because it makes YOU feel good, that's where the real confidence comes from. The other is about changing into whatever you think others will like, and you'll always be chained to that, looking for acceptance by other people's terms, never yours.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

eeo said:


> They're telling her to change her appearance to appeal to men!


Because that's the OP problem? 



eeo said:


> How is that EVER going to make her feel good in her skin if it's done like that, for that purpose?


When she'll improve anything about herself, she'll feel better. It doesn't matter the PURPOSE. 
She can START it for anything. 

You know how many people change their lives by adopting healthier lifestyles for a CERTAIN PURPOSE so that later ... they can achieve along the way, as the changes take place "OMG NOW I am much more energetic. And I am more satisfied I feel much better, I have more confidence" and the initial goal takes second place, remaining as a side effect rather than a main target? 




eeo said:


> One is about choosing to change into whatever you feel like because it makes YOU feel good, that's where the real confidence comes from.


And it seems to you that a positive change doesn't make you feel good because you do it for I don't know what reason? 
A positive change is a change that makes you feel good. It doesn't matter the purpose. 

Look at the OP profile and see how annoying and persistent this problem is. 

You think that's a good approach of the problem? "aaa, well I don't do that because I do it for others and that's bad." 

What is the alternative? I mean, what do you suggest? 
"_Don't do anything for others. Wait, don't make yourself more beautiful. Doing nothing is better than doing things for others._"?

Anyway, I don't understand how you understood that "she does it for men" when even the ESFJ has already said that this is just a result, not the primary focus.



ESFJMouse said:


> Your new look will give you a new confidence


*PRIMARY FOCUS*

and 



ESFJMouse said:


> men will be drawn to your positive energy.


*COLLATERAL RESULT*



ESFJMouse said:


> The other is about changing into whatever you think others will like, and you'll always be chained to that, looking for acceptance by other people's terms, never yours.


This would be true ONLY IF she won't like the changes she would make.


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

impulsenine said:


> And it seems to you that a positive change doesn't make you feel good because you do it for I don't know what reason?
> A positive change is a change that makes you feel good. It doesn't matter the purpose.


See, that's exactly my issue here. It's not really positive change. And there's also the question of sustainability. People wouldn't be doing it for themselves, but to be liked by others. You called it collateral result, but it's not so, it's the end goal. There is no guarantee that it will make them happy because whatever they think is wrong with their appearance might not be what turns people away in the first place. Or they could never achieve the kind of change they're seeking. So if things don't turn out the way they like, where will they get their confidence and positive energy from then? Yes, of course people can learn along the way, and I do agree that starting to move towards something is better than nothing. But if you're going to do anything, do it with the right goal in mind, something that really is the best for you, because that will improve your chances to be confident and happy with yourself. Attracting others should be a bonus if it happens, and if not, then it doesn't really matter anymore.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

Purrfessor said:


> Not always but no person can be a good thing while the wrong person cant. However no person is not always a good thing so its not always better than the wrong person.


No person will leave you lonely. The wrong person will give you experience.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

Iloveshopping said:


> Because I might be rated to be really really really really really really really really really really really below ! 0/10 or I'm a 1/10 on the beauty scale.


What I find interesting is the volume and variety of responses. Could it be we ALL experience *something* unattractive about us and seek a way to fix it ? ... either that, or come to peace with it?


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

eeo said:


> See, that's exactly my issue here. It's not really positive change. And there's also the question of sustainability. People wouldn't be doing it for themselves, but to be liked by others. You called it collateral result, but it's not so, it's the end goal. There is no guarantee that it will make them happy because whatever they think is wrong with their appearance might not be what turns people away in the first place. Or they could never achieve the kind of change they're seeking. So if things don't turn out the way they like, where will they get their confidence and positive energy from then? Yes, of course people can learn along the way, and I do agree that starting to move towards something is better than nothing. But if you're going to do anything, do it with the right goal in mind, something that really is the best for you, because that will improve your chances to be confident and happy with yourself. Attracting others should be a bonus if it happens, and if not, then it doesn't really matter anymore.


Now I understand the misunderstanding between our point of views. 

It's about pessimism vs. optimism. 

What you have there is an extremely pessimistic and lax perspective. 
I understand your perspective because I have met thousands of people who have it. Every one of them lives in poverty, misery and stupidity, MAYBE NOT ACCIDENTALLY.

I can't show someone who could have a Royal Flush in his hand and still lose how to win even with a 7 and 2. 
I leave it to the Lord and move on.

Life is not about having the best cards and playing well with them and when you have bad cards, you have to go to bed and give up playing your hand. 
But about having any cards (no matter how good or bad) and playing hand with one goal: to obtain the best possible.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

Seriously, looks aren't the worst thing to worry about. Imagine matching with a perfectly hot guy, but you realise as you're texting, you are way too smart and more mentally developed than him, and there's no connection beyond his looks, and he's slowly becoming less hotter: 💔


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

impulsenine said:


> What you have there is an extremely pessimistic and lax perspective.
> I understand your perspective because I have met thousands of people who have it. Every one of them lives in poverty, misery and stupidity, MAYBE NOT ACCIDENTALLY.


No, it's a realistic perspective. It's about aiming for authenticity. Taking a long hard look at yourself, your goals, and what can be achieved with what you have and are willing to do, then working to achieve what you can.

You have an interesting way of talking at people and making up stories about them to support your arguments. Why do you do that?



impulsenine said:


> Life is not about having the best cards and playing well with them and when you have bad cards, you have to go to bed and give up playing your hand.


Nobody has said anything like that.


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Celtsincloset said:


> Seriously, looks aren't the worst thing to worry about. Imagine matching with a perfectly hot guy, but you realise as you're texting, you are way too smart and more mentally developed than him, and there's no connection beyond his looks, and he's slowly becoming less hotter: 💔


What if I want a man that's perfectly hot but I'm not perfect hot myself?


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Iloveshopping said:


> What if I want a man that's perfectly hot but I'm not perfect hot myself?


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Iloveshopping said:


> What if I want a man that's perfectly hot but I'm not perfect hot myself?


Why did you send me this video?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Iloveshopping said:


> Why did you send me this video?


I'm certain it has symbolic meaning.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

Iloveshopping said:


> What if I want a man that's perfectly hot but I'm not perfect hot myself?


What kind of question is this, troll?


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Celtsincloset said:


> What kind of question is this, troll?


Why did you ask?


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## Iloveshopping (Jul 10, 2018)

Celtsincloset said:


> What kind of question is this, troll?


Why did you ask this and call me a troll?


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

Single women are reported to be happier in life. So at least yoyu will be happy.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

eeo said:


> See, that's exactly my issue here. It's not really positive change. And there's also the question of sustainability. People wouldn't be doing it for themselves, but to be liked by others. You called it collateral result, but it's not so, it's the end goal. There is no guarantee that it will make them happy because whatever they think is wrong with their appearance might not be what turns people away in the first place. Or they could never achieve the kind of change they're seeking. So if things don't turn out the way they like, where will they get their confidence and positive energy from then? Yes, of course people can learn along the way, and I do agree that starting to move towards something is better than nothing. But if you're going to do anything, do it with the right goal in mind, something that really is the best for you, because that will improve your chances to be confident and happy with yourself. Attracting others should be a bonus if it happens, and if not, then it doesn't really matter anymore.


Intentions are important. They give meaning to your actions. I think that's what you're saying and I agree with you on that.

However intentions are only married to the corresponding action and not the end result. Even if our reasons for dieting and exercising are psychologically unhealthy, as long as we are consistent in our actions, the overall improvement in terms of health, mobility and appearance is going to be a positive.

So basically, we miss out on the psychological benefits of doing something we can be proud of throughout the process. But at the end of it we will still have results we can be proud of, which may even make it easier to love oneself.


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