# The Difference Between a Value and a Principle - F vs T



## DevelopingPotentialUK (Feb 1, 2010)

It is said that one of the main differences between F' and T's are a preference for values vs principles. 

If we take a principle to be an immoveable truth and a value as something which is important to the bearer. Surely we possess both - perhaps we just visit one before the other in our decision making process, or place higher importance on one over the other.

I am curious - to T's - what are your values, and to F's what are you principles?


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

I've attempted to reply to this thread for the last five minutes, but I feel as though my values are my principles - essentially, non-specific things that blanket everything I do. I'm afraid you'll have to accept my political ideology for my values, as that's the closest thing to think of.

1. I believe women should have clear access to abortion, with federal funding to make things more efficient, so it's not as costly or dangerous.
2. I believe that an individual has the right to marry another consenting individual if they so choose, be it the opposite gender or their own gender.
3. I'm against major gun control, but this doesn't necessarily mean I want everyone to own a gun.
4. I don't believe my nation should involve itself in the affairs of other nations unless being directly affected, and I don't mean in an economic way.

etc.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

I value integrity, my principals are my values I know I should act on.


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## fiasco (Dec 25, 2009)

Wisdom and maturity, respect and humility, patience and diplomacy, fairness and open-mindedness, empathy and not sympathy, truth and integrity, curiosity and critical thinking, and of course family and security.

Being wise and mature means accepting things you cannot change. Being humble and respectful means acknowledging your faults and being patient with the faults of others. Being patient and diplomatic means telling the truth, but in a way which emphasizes efficiency for the long-term. Being open-minded _is_ being fair, but sometimes what's fair isn't always what's "right". Being empathetic rather than sympathetic means acknowledging the thoughts, feelings, and states of others, while distancing yourself enough to not prioritize them or cloud your overall judgment. Being truthful and having integrity is self-explanatory. Everyone has the right to ask "why", and everyone should.

I wouldn't value anything if I didn't believe it served to enhance efficiency. With the exception of family and security, these are more common sense things than special convictions.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

Wait ... which does a T have and what does a F have?

I thought Fs have the values? As in the 'internal value system' I've read so much about?


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## Sunless (Jul 30, 2009)

I value diversity and uniqueness.


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## fiasco (Dec 25, 2009)

cardinalfire said:


> Wait ... which does a T have and what does a F have?
> 
> I thought Fs have the values? As in the 'internal value system' I've read so much about?


Both have both, but they differ primarily in that someone with dominant Fi will prioritize values (while still having, though possibly placing less importance on principles) while dominant Ti would prioritize principles (while still having, though likely placing less importance on values). Fi is essentially about your values, authenticity, and being true to your inner self/essence. An Fi user might not care as much about what is true as what they know in themselves to be important (note how I say important and not true or false). Objectifying something means losing a lot of importance because what really matters to an Fi user is what resonates with that inner essence the most -- what is authentic is true enough. So, Fi cares about important or not important, and this is why value judgments are made more often.

Meanwhile, Ti cares the most about what is true or false. The objective of Ti is to find and understand the "ultimate truth", and in the Ti user's eyes, that requires detachment and favoring what is objective. Objectivity can be applied universally, so it is deemed most true. So again, I would guess Ti prefers principles because Ti doesn't really care to explore what they most value. It was written somewhere that Ti-Ne users value the truth (what can be logically proven) so much and can often spend so much time exploring different perspectives that they can either chronically discount or fall out of touch with what they themselves feel "deep down". Another reason why the Ti user doesn't prioritize values as much as he does principles.

All of that is a slightly long-winded way of saying Ti tends to prefer principles while Fi tends to prefer values, but both Ti and Fi have both. I'm not sure how successfully the above can apply to Te and Fe.


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## cardinalfire (Dec 10, 2009)

Well I consider these my values then ... Things that are important are art, education, family and friends. Honesty, integrity, character, responsibilty. These are the top ones, love as well I value, as in just being kind and polite to strangers, not physically hurting others. That's what comes to mind.


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## very bored (Jul 6, 2009)

I guess my main value is that you should have an almost laissez-faire approach to what other people do, with very little intervention.


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## Nitou (Feb 3, 2010)

I value: family, altruism/empathy, justice, honor, eduction, science and the arts. I rationalize that all of these things are more or less universally necessary to sustain the species or improve people's lives and so they are principles.


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## Korvyna (Dec 4, 2009)

Hmm...

1. I don't believe in the death penalty, I believe it is hypocritical.
2. It absolutely drives me insane when people harass and make fun of gays/lesbians, handicapped people, and people who are overweight.
3. I hate when people change all their values and opinions just because their friends/significant other disagree with them. 
4. I really wish everyone would respect everyone else's space and belongings!


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## TexanViking (Feb 5, 2010)

1. Limited government
2. Right to bear arms
3. Abortion is murder
4. Marriage is between a man and a woman
5. Justice above peace

I could go on, but I'll stop there. lol


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## alanv (Aug 29, 2009)

One of my main values is sacrifice. I despise anyone in my work place who can't get over their own emotions and attitude and ego to do something for a greater purpose.


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## TaylorS (Jan 24, 2010)

My principles are:

1. Kant's dictum that people should be treated as ends unto themselves and not MERELY as means to an end.

2. Never cease to ask questions, point out bad arguments, and to question common assumptions, including one's own.

3. Treat people as individuals, not stereotypes.

4. kindness is the highest virtue.

5. Be polite

6. Criticize a person's ideas, not the person himself/herself.

7. Do not dehumanize a person just because you dislike their beliefs.

8. Always question one's own motivations and be honest with ourselves.


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## TexanViking (Feb 5, 2010)

TaylorS said:


> My principles are:
> 
> 1. Kant's dictum that people should be treated as ends unto themselves and not MERELY as means to an end.


We just finished studying Kant in my politics elective. I don't agree with everything he says, but this point I do.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

Principles are basic truths I believe in, which have a universal element. They are broad and serve as a foundation for my personal values. Principles tend to be non-negotiable, but values can change or grow as I change & grow. 

Values are things which are important to me as an individual and which I recognize as being individual. They tend to be more specific, & are often refined ideas that have formed out of my broad principles. They have been tailored to my personal needs, whereas principles are something I may hold other people's conduct to. 

In the "INFP moral code" thread we discussed this a bit. It's difficult for me to state any specific principles, because they feel so large and even vague, yet they are sure and solid. Much of it can boil down to concepts like "love" or "peace" or "truth" for me. Of course, those words are really very ambiguous, which is why Feeling isn't described easily.


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## Aaron Timlin (Jul 23, 2011)

Grey, what you have listed are principles. Principles often divide us while values are broader and tend to bind people around a common goal: food for the hungry, shelter for the homeless, equal rights for all humans, etc. Your principles are more personal, as you have expressed above. I respect and appreciate your principles. What are your values?


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## StrixAluco (Apr 8, 2011)

I value responsibility and reason because responsibility is useless if you keep doing everything wrong and have no principles.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

The terms seem muddled in common speech. Their origin and way of expression might be different, but in terms of results I see little different between a value and a principle.

They also seem to go beyond T and F. Honestly, I'd actually say the only function that doesn't give me any "values" is Ne. Fe and even Si contribute (Fe is obvious; Si chiefly gives me my values relating to responsibility and doing your part to uphold the common peace and other things my Ti approves of).

I understand the difference in the MB context, being related to human-centered harmony in the case of F and consistency and efficiency in the case of T. But it gets confusing for me, because I naturally care about myself and other human beings' welfare, and so when I apply consistency and efficiency to the task of making human beings happy it may lead to conclusions that seem like values, though they were not arrived at the way an F would. Fair treatment and the value of individualism also seem inextricably linked my Ti.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Aaron Timlin said:


> Grey, what you have listed are principles. Principles often divide us while values are broader and tend to bind people around a common goal: food for the hungry, shelter for the homeless, equal rights for all humans, etc. Your principles are more personal, as you have expressed above. I respect and appreciate your principles. What are your values?


Principles are timeless and universal. Values are developed through our interpretation and understanding of those principles, and reflect an ongoing attempt to align ourselves with those same principles.

What Grey has cited are values.

BTW, you do know that this thread is over a year old, right?


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## StrixAluco (Apr 8, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> Principles are basic truths I believe in, which have a universal element. They are broad and serve as a foundation for my personal values. Principles tend to be non-negotiable, but values can change or grow as I change & grow.


How do you know that your principles aren't values which seem universal ?


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

StrixAluco said:


> How do you know that your principles aren't values which seem universal ?


Values are personal in the sense they apply to me. They are in relation to MY needs & preferences. Principles are standards which I apply to world. In that sense, they have a universal element; they're concepts I see as relevant to others. _I_ don't claim they are universal in the sense that they are objective moral standards, which is what I think _you_ are implying.


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## StrixAluco (Apr 8, 2011)

OrangeAppled said:


> Values are personal in the sense they apply to me. They are in relation to MY needs & preferences. Principles are standards which I apply to world. In that sense, they have a universal element; they're concepts I see as relevant to others. _I_ don't claim they are universal in the sense that they are objective moral standards, which is what I think _you_ are implying.


Thank you, I was just asking for clarification on what the universal element meant for you.


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## Eric B (Jun 18, 2010)

The best terms for T vs F seem to be "technical" vs "humane" considerations. You could think of it as "impersonal" vs "personal", but "personal" is very ambiguous in itself. (Like it's used for any introverted function at times).


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