# Pet Theory About Enneagram - MBTI correlations



## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

[No message]


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I wish life was that simple.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

People are not so easy to put into neat little boxes as this would imply.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

OP has been posting countless visitor messages trying to tell people that their MBTI type is wrong because their Enneagram defies his idea.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Fried Eggz said:


> OP has been posting countless visitor messages trying to tell people that their MBTI type is wrong because their Enneagram defies his idea.


I wonder what the OP thinks of me being a 5w6, ENTP.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I wonder what the OP thinks of me being a 5w6, ENTP.


I'm guessing it means that you're Ti with a Te wing. He told me I'm an INFJ because 1w2 is Ni-Fe and 5w6 is Ti and 2w3 is Fe.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Fried Eggz said:


> Well he told me I'm an INFJ because 1w2 is Ni-Fe and 5w6 is Ti.
> 
> So I'm guessing it means that you're Ti with a Te wing.


And yet my Ne is so powerful that I almost appear psychic. I suppose my strong 8 fix can explain this.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

I've found this one to be quite reliable.

http://similarminds.com/test.html

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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> People are not so easy to put into neat little boxes as this would imply.


Are they really I wonder.

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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> I've found this one to be quite reliable.
> 
> Free Enneagram Personality Test
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


One of my favorites.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I wonder what the OP thinks of me being a 5w6, ENTP.


I think you are an abomination and should be terminated by fire.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Please don't. I wouldn't go to the other extreme and say with conviction and enthusiasm that all pairings are possible. Some seem weird but I don't openly question them. I'm no authority in others' self-knowledge. It isn't that simple, specially with the less hermetic types like 6 or 9. There are some types that I expect to be less varied like 5s, but there are still a lot of pairings that I've seen and that don't seem weird (I've seen Te doms that are 5s, Ni doms that are 5s, Ti doms that are 5s, ISTJs, ENTPs and INFPs that are 5s too).


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Tests test stereotypes and behavior so you probably have correctly spotted a correlation in the results. 

Sadly people are not stereotypes and situation and experience influence behavior just as much as motivation so the correlation, like most statistics, is meaningless. I'm yet to receive my visitor message, but then why would you bother with me (being a 4 and all... :laughing


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Enneagram Test Results


The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...


Type 5 Intellectualism |||||||||||||||| 62%
Type 6 Security Focus |||||||||||||||| 62%
Type 1 Perfectionism |||||||||||||| 54%
Type 4 Individualism |||||||||||||| 54%
Type 9 Calmness |||||||||||||| 54%
Type 7 Adventurousness |||||||||| 38%
Type 8 Aggressiveness |||||||||| 34%
Type 3 Image Focus |||||| 26%
Type 2 Helpfulness |||| 18%


type score type behavior motivation
5 15 I must be knowledgeable to survive.
6 15 I must be secure and safe to survive.
1 13 I must be perfect and good to survive.
4 13 I must be unique/different to survive.
9 13 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.
7 9 I must be fun and entertained to survive.
8 8 I must be strong and in control to survive.
3 6 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.
2 4 I must be helpful and caring to survive.

According to this I am 6w5w6 (15+15=30, I'll go with 6 because that's the type I self-type as), 4w5 (13+15=28), 1w9w1 (13+13=26, I don't know with which one to go because I relate to both, I think I grew angrier which makes me believe I am 9w1-fixed). This makes me Te-Ti, Fi-Ti, Si-Ni, which is confusing. If we don't consider wings, it is Te, Fi and Si, which I've been considering (ISTJ), so there you go. I'm surprised this worked pretty well with me, but I still think it's not okay to simplify that much.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Mr.Rbtoo said:


> Enneagram Test Results
> 
> 
> The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...
> ...


Your lowest results are 3 and 2 which might imply that you are an Fe-inferior by the way.

Te-Ni-Fe perhaps? Enneagram 4 score complicates that resul though.

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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Your lowest results are 3 and 2 which might imply that you are an Fe-inferior by the way.
> 
> Te-Ni-Fe perhaps? Enneagram 4 score complicates that resul though.
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


Te Ni Fe?

It also makes sense going by this that I'm an ISTJ since my Fe is low according to your correlations. I'm low in Fe, Se and Ne. Your correlation seems right (in my case), at least only in test scoring (how you score in tests), because my scores in cognitive functions tests are usually Ti, Fi, Si, Te, Ni, Ne, Se, Fe or in a similar order and here I scored Ti, Te, Ni, Fi, Si, Ne, Se, Fe.

I'm just entertaining your idea.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> I think you are an abomination and should be terminated by fire.


I'm fireproof. You're not.


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## Emerson (Mar 13, 2011)

Bitches be crazy.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I'm fireproof. You're not.


How's that?

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## chicklit (Feb 28, 2014)

And what exactly do you want to say with your observations? That because I'm a core 6 I _have_ to be Te-dom? Because it seems like that's your statement (correct me if I'm wrong.)


Took the test and got this result:

Type 1 Perfectionism	||||	14%
Type 2	Helpfulness	||||||||||	34%
*Type 3	Image Focus	||||||||||||||||	70%*
Type 4	Individualism	||||	14%
Type 5	Intellectualism	||||||	30%
*Type 6	Security Focus	||||||||||||||	58%*
Type 7	Adventurousness	||||||	30%
*Type 8	Aggressiveness	||||||||||||	50%*
Type 9	Calmness	||||||	22%

_(I'm definitely not a type 8, this test doesn't consider counterphobia.)_

*3w2 > 6w? > 8w7* _(8w7 is a ridiculous typing for me.)_

So: *Fe + Fe > Te + ? > Se + Ne*

According to your system I don't use _any_ introverted functions. None.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

chicklit said:


> And what exactly do you want to say with your observations? That because I'm a core 6 I _have_ to be Te-dom? Because it seems like that's your statement (correct me if I'm wrong.)
> 
> 
> Took the test and got this result:
> ...


You are a freak of nature.

Edit: your strong 3 score might suggest ExFJ type.

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## chicklit (Feb 28, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> You are a freak of nature.
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


So you admit that you don't have any back-up for your system?

(And don't get me wrong, I'm genuinely trying to understand.)


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

chicklit said:


> So you admit that you don't have any back-up for your system?
> 
> (And don't get me wrong, I'm genuinely trying to understand.)


What's backup? Baseline data? That is what I am trying to find out here.

Hit the theory hard and it'll evolve into a better form.

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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

chicklit said:


> So you admit that you don't have any back-up for your system?
> 
> (And don't get me wrong, I'm genuinely trying to understand.)


Your info page says you are indeed an ENFJ.

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## chicklit (Feb 28, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> What's backup? Baseline data? That is what I am trying to find out here.


From the way you spread your "typings" over other people's profiles I assumed that you already had some of that. Guess I was wrong.



> Your info page says you are indeed an ENFJ.


:shocked:


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

chicklit said:


> From the way you spread your "typings" over other people's profiles I assumed that you already had some of that. Guess I was wrong.
> 
> 
> :shocked:


Well the more the info the better.

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## chicklit (Feb 28, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> Well the more the info the better.


I understand your point, but to leave messages like 


> 4w3 - 7w6 - 9w8
> 
> 4w3 is Fi, 7w6 is Ne, 9w8 is Si = Fi-Ne-Si = INFP
> 
> ...


or



> 6w5 - 8w7 - 3w4
> 
> 6w5 is Te, 8w7 is Se, 3w4 is Fe. Te - Se - F = ExTJ, *where is your Ni or Si?*


you clearly need more sources or references or _anything really._ These people didn't even ask for your advice in the first place.


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## Sonny (Oct 14, 2008)

yeghor, I presume?

The reality of people's types defy your theory, you can't just retype people just so it fits. They are two separate systems and should be treated as such.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Enneagram Test Results



The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...


Type 1Perfectionism||||||26%Type 2Helpfulness||||||||||||||54%Type 3Image Focus||||||||||||50%Type 4Individualism||||||||||||||||66%Type 5Intellectualism||||||||||||||||66%Type 6Security Focus||||||||||||46%Type 7Adventurousness||||||||||||||58%Type 8Aggressiveness||||||||||||46%Type 9Calmness||||||||||||||||66%





typescoretype behavior motivation416 I must be unique/different to survive.516 I must be knowledgeable to survive.916 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.714 I must be fun and entertained to survive.213 I must be helpful and caring to survive.312 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.611 I must be secure and safe to survive.811 I must be strong and in control to survive.16 I must be perfect and good to survive.


Your main type is *Type 5* 
Your variant stacking is *sp/sx/so*
Your level of health is *average*

So, according to the scores above, I'm a 5w4 that could easily be 4w5 because the scores for those are tied. I can identify pretty well with Type 4 even though I might/might not actually be that, so...yeah. If we're using the test I'd go with that.


Tritype-wise, this is a little weird to calculate, though. XD 

I've got 5w4, 4w5, and 9w8 in some order I think. XD Or 5w4/4w5 > 9w8 > 2w3/7-balanced if we're discounting types that have already been in wings.


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## BeatrixKiddo (May 28, 2014)

Type 1 Perfectionism	||||||||||||	50%
Type 2	Helpfulness	||	10%
Type 3	Image Focus	||||||||||||||||	62%
Type 4	Individualism	||||||||||||||||||||	86%
Type 5	Intellectualism	||||||||||||	46%
Type 6	Security Focus	||||||||||||	46%
Type 7	Adventurousness	||||||	30%
Type 8	Aggressiveness	||||||||||||||||	70%
Type 9	Calmness	||||	18%

type	score	type behavior motivation
4	21 I must be unique/different to survive.
8	17 I must be strong and in control to survive.
3	15 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.
1	12 I must be perfect and good to survive.
5	11 I must be knowledgeable to survive.
6	11 I must be secure and safe to survive.
7	7 I must be fun and entertained to survive.
9	4 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.
2	2 I must be helpful and caring to survive.

Your main type is Type 4 
Your variant stacking is spsosx
Your level of health is very low, i.e. very unhealthy


More or less accurate, except for my variants. Oh, and the level of health. I wonder how they can even calculate that with only 50 questions.

So you theory seems to work for me, except for the Fi.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

1 Fi, Te, Fe
2 Fe
3 Te, Fe
4 Fi, Ni
5 Ti, Ni
6 Si, Ni, Ti
7 Se, Ne
8 Se, Te
9 Si, Ni, Fi


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Promethea said:


> 1 Fi, Te, Fe
> 2 Fe
> 3 Te, Fe
> 4 Fi, Ni
> ...


1. Fi, Ni, Te
2. Fe
3. Any
4. Fi, Ni
5. Ti, Ni
6. Ji, Pi
7. Pe
8. Pe, Je
9. Ji, Pi


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

@Promethea @Aha

This 2 = Fe idea seems really discriminatory against ExFPs, who are one of the most common types to be a type 2.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Fried Eggz said:


> @_Promethea_ @_Aha_
> 
> This 2 = Fe idea seems really discriminatory against ExFPs, who are often type 2.


Yeah, you are right.



aconite said:


> *1. What is it?*
> This is an attempt to explore possible correlation between PerC user profiles and their Enneagram types with wings.
> 
> *2. How did you gather the data?*
> ...


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## Tad Cooper (Apr 10, 2010)

Type 1 Perfectionism||||||||||||||||66%Type 2Helpfulness||||||||||||50%Type 3Image Focus||||||30%Type 4Individualism||||||||||||46%Type 5Intellectualism||||||||||||||||66%Type 6Security Focus||||||||||||||58%Type 7Adventurousness||||||||||||||54%Type 8Aggressiveness||||||||||34%Type 9Calmness||||||||||||||||70%


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Fried Eggz said:


> @Promethea @Aha
> 
> This 2 = Fe idea seems really discriminatory against ExFPs, who are one of the most common types to be a type 2.


"discriminatory" is a pretty strong word here, for my admittedly half-baked idea. 
so before we get CNN coverage out here, lets take into account that my point was more about how anyone can have an opinion on what functions and enneatypes correlate. 

you won't see me pushing these on people's profiles, telling them they're mistyped, because i do actually agree that there are exceptions. with Fe for example: _generally_ you will see 2s as esfj, and 3s as enfj, but with exceptions, sure, because these are two _fundamentally different_ typology models. but yes, some types have a tendency to be certain types in the other model. for example, you probably won't see an infp 8 though its perC PC to say its possible.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@tanstaafl28
drawing loose correlations is not necessarily "putting people into boxes". 
however, @Grehoy I disagree with many of your correlations

red = disagree
blue = agree



> Enneagram 1 = Ni
> Enneagram 2 = Fe-aux
> Enneagram 3 = Fe
> Enneagram 4 = Fi
> ...


- many SJs are clear Enneagram 1s
- IxFJs are unassuming, humble (or false humble) and have more of an heir of "oh, don't mind me". 2s are far more egocentric, demand attention and are typically a lot more extroverted.
- 3 = Fe is probably correlated, but I think it's a weaker correlation 
- 4 and Fi are definitely related (though this correlation is exaggerated to no end, to the point where 70% of FPs seem to think they are 4s :dry: )
- I would equate 5 more with IxTx than Ti (introspective, desire for objective understanding, detached, uncomfortable processing emotions etc)
- 6 isn't really correlated with any MBTI type significantly. it's common among all 16 
- 7 and Ne works.
- I like the 8 and Se correlation. this is a bit overdone in works of the Naranjo tradition, but I still think the PHYSICAL aspect of 8 is a big make or break point for those considering the type (including myself. it's the main reason I don't type as an 8)
- I liked the Si = 9 correlation too, more because it challenges myths about Si being this very judgmental, rigid function. my experience with Si is that, with the exception of ESxJs (EJs in general are bossier), Si is very mellow and unassuming, more concerned with going through its own peaceful routines than trying to force you to do the same


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

There is no correlation between e-types and mbti. They are different and independent systems.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> There is no correlation between e-types and mbti. They are different and independent systems.


What if?

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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> What if?
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


No.

Cognitive functions is how you see the world.

Enneagram is about fears and motivations.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @tanstaafl28
> drawing loose correlations is not necessarily "putting people into boxes".


"loose" is the exact opposite agenda of the OP. This guy decided to randomly message me one day informing me that I'm an INFJ because my enneagram says so.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Aha said:


> No.
> 
> Cognitive functions is how you see the world.
> 
> Enneagram is about fears and motivations.


How does one enacts his/her fears and motivations?

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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> How does one enacts his/her fears and motivations?
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


Knowing a person's JCF will give an idea of how he will perceive and judge a situation, and thus, how he will deal with his fears. But cognitive functions will not define fears nor motivations. The later are pretty much dependant on the first years of your life. Upbringing and self-development.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Aha said:


> Knowing a person's JCF will give an idea of how he will perceive and judge a situation, and thus, how he will deal with his fears. But cognitive functions will not define fears nor motivations. They are pretty much dependant on the first years of your life. Upbringing and self-development.


And fears and motivations are not?

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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Fried Eggz said:


> "loose" is the exact opposite agenda of the OP. This guy decided to randomly message me one day informing me that I'm an INFJ because my enneagram says so.


I see. perhaps this is the "serial typist" I've been hearing about :laughing:

btw, I would make the following (loose) correlations

So 1: E_TJ
Sp 1: _STJ
Sx 1: ENFP, ENTJ
So 2: E__J
Sp 2: __F_
Sx 2: ES_P
So 3: E___
Sp 3: __TJ
Sx 3: E_F_
So 4: _NF_
Sp 4: I___
Sx 4: _NFP
Sp 5: I_TJ
So 5: INTP
Sx 5: INF_
Sp 6: ???
So 6: _S_J
Sx 6: _S_P, ENFP
So 7: E_FJ
Sp 7: E_TP, _NTJ
Sx 7: E_FP
So 8: ES_P, ENFP
Sp 8: _NTJ, ISTP
Sx 8: ES_P (especially ESFP)
So 9: __FJ
Sp 9: IS_P, ISTJ
Sx 9: I_F_


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)




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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Mr.Rbtoo said:


>


Is the statement that correlation =/= causation true?


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I see. perhaps this is the "serial typist" I've been hearing about :laughing:


Yea...



Swordsman of Mana said:


> Ibtw, I would make the following (loose) correlations
> 
> 
> Sx 3: E_F_
> ...


I disagree. Most ENTPs are sx. Most ENTPs are 7, 8 and 3


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Is the statement that correlation =/= causation true?


They are not the same, even if sometimes correlation gives hints over the cause of something.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Aha said:


> Yea...


I await a visit from him (though I may have scared him off lol)




> I disagree. Most ENTPs are sx. Most ENTPs are 7, 8 and 3


most ENTPs are definitely NOT Sx. those are the exception, not the rule (most EN_F_Ps are Sx, but ENTPs are typically much drier, more detached and have issues with intimacy).

you are right about 7 and 3, but ENTP 8 is mistyped frequently. 8s can be intelligent and ENTPs can be assertive, but ENTPs are extremely cerebral people for the most part while 8s are very much _physical_ people. they are act>think>feel; most ENTPs are think first, act second.

I think the typical ENTP is much closer to Sp 7. they are independent and rebellious like 8s, but their approach to authority is more Denise the Menace prankster who covers it up via manipulative charm rather than relying on force of personality (or actual physical force). 8s are direct with conflict while ENTPs are typically more indirect and liable to win by dancing around you intellectualy until you give in.


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## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

Fried Eggz said:


> "loose" is the exact opposite agenda of the OP. This guy decided to randomly message me one day informing me that I'm an INFJ because my enneagram says so.


According to him, I'm an INTP because socionics INTp = MBTI INTP. Blah.
He asked me what annoys me most in everyday life or something. I nearly wrote back "People leaving random visitor messages.", but then I couldn't be bothered.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

BeatrixKiddo said:


> Type 1 Perfectionism	||||||||||||	50%
> Type 2	Helpfulness	||	10%
> Type 3	Image Focus	||||||||||||||||	62%
> Type 4	Individualism	||||||||||||||||||||	86%
> ...


I think the test considers less spiky distribution healthy. 

4w3 8w7 1w9 = Fi Se Ni = ISFP


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

tine said:


> Type 1Perfectionism||||||||||||||||66%Type 2Helpfulness||||||||||||50%Type 3Image Focus||||||30%Type 4Individualism||||||||||||46%Type 5Intellectualism||||||||||||||||66%Type 6Security Focus||||||||||||||58%Type 7Adventurousness||||||||||||||54%Type 8Aggressiveness||||||||||34%Type 9Calmness||||||||||||||||70%


9w1 5w6 2w3 = Si Ti Fe = ? ISxJ ?


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> most ENTPs are definitely NOT Sx. those are the exception, not the rule (most EN_F_Ps are Sx, but ENTPs are typically much drier, more detached and have issues with intimacy).
> 
> you are right about 7 and 3, but ENTP 8 is mistyped frequently. 8s can be intelligent and ENTPs can be assertive, but ENTPs are extremely cerebral people for the most part while 8s are very much _physical_ people. they are act>think>feel; most ENTPs are think first, act second.
> 
> I think the typical ENTP is much closer to Sp 7. they are independent and rebellious like 8s, but their approach to authority is more Denise the Menace prankster who covers it up via manipulative charm rather than relying on force of personality (or actual physical force). 8s are direct with conflict while ENTPs are typically more indirect and liable to win by dancing around you intellectualy until you give in.


You better trust me on this one. ENTP forum is my home.

I do not know a single sp ENTP (can't remember one). Most are sx

I made a thread with a vote:
http://personalitycafe.com/entp-forum-visionaries/234617-instincts.html
And here is statistics provided by user @_Vox_ based on the enneagram list:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NXZ3aHlfOC03cXhWa25Ba1JoTnc&usp=sharing#gid=2
58% of the PerC ENTPs are sx. 

As for enneatypes, yes, majority are sevens. I know quite a few eights as well; a few threes. I do not believe in a mistype if a person did a research instead of trusting test results. Especially, if it is an ENTP who does the research. We do not need a freaking year to choose a type (you know to whom I refer)


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Aha said:


> As for enneatypes, yes, majority are sevens. I know quite a few eights as well; a few threes. I do not believe in a mistype if a person did a research instead of trusting test results. Especially, if it is an ENTP who does the research. We do not need a freaking year to choose a type (you know to whom I refer)


you see, this is where we disagree. I think more than 50% of people are mistyped in one significant way or another (not that I'm out to witch hunt them. typology is some complicated shit and requires an extensive theoretical understanding, self awareness, willingness to face one's demons and a certain degree of life experience). however, your data is compelling enough that I shall reconsider it being more common than I initially thought.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Aha said:


> You better trust me on this one. ENTP forum is my home.
> 
> I do not know a single sp ENTP (can't remember one). Most are sx
> 
> ...


I'd expect Ne-dom and Se-dom types to be sx-doms as well regardless of F or T preference.


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## Aha (Mar 6, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> you see, this is where we disagree. I think more than 50% of people are mistyped in one significant way or another. however, your data is compelling enough that I shall reconsider it being more common than I initially thought.


Visit our forum in a while :wink:

I agree with the mistype statement. On the other hand its hilarious. One minute person tells you that he is an intellectual and cares only about the Universe, and tomorrow he tells you he is a sex machine and a sub-forum dominator.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Aha said:


> Visit our forum in a while :wink:
> I agree with the mistype statement. On the other hand its hilarious. One minute person tells you that he is an intellectual and cares only about the Universe, and tomorrow he tells you he is a sex machine and a sub-forum dominator.


exactly, and there is a tendency of males in general to mistype as Sx dom because it's seen as more bad ass and they want to be the intense, aggressive sex god (a friend of mine teaches Enneagram workshops for a living and says that tons of males mistype as Sx dom, when they're more likely to be Social dom and that it's actually females who are more likely to be Sx dom while Sp dominance is fairly common in both genders)
btw, I think you are correctly typed as Sx dom.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

What makes you believe 6 is Te? 6 is a very introverted type in a sense that it's more preoccupied with its own impressions. Yes, there are extroverted 6s, but I imagine they have a strong introverted function.


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## Aquamarine (Jul 24, 2011)

Aw, I thought you're going to explain the most common type of pets for each enneagram and mbti type.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

So...ah, do I get a correlated type now? I'm aware my test results tend to fluctuate, but...


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## Sabrah (Aug 6, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Actually you should read with the first parts of the wing as Ti Fe Si, which doesn't make sense. 7 and 8 (i.e. Ne or Se) is missing from your type though, which might mean you are an Ne-inferior or Se-inferior type, i.e. a Si-dom or Ni-dom type. Why your Si (9 and 1 scores) comes last in your tritype, that I do not know.


What do you mean by 7 or 8 is missing from my type? Most ISTJs aren't 7s or 8s, and I don't fit those descriptions very well. Sorry, but when you have a theory you need evidence to support it, not in the reverse. Here is a survey I conducted a while back about ISTJ Enneagram types. http://personalitycafe.com/istj-for...6113-istjs-only-what-your-enneagram-type.html I'm not the only person to have done this. Another user did something similar way before I even joined and here are the results of his survey: http://personalitycafe.com/istj-forum-duty-fulfillers/62991-ps-types-enneagram-test.html

According to both surveys, the most common types among the ISTJs on here are: 6w5, 5w6, 1w9, and 9w1. 

I've seen type 5 in several different MBTI types. INTP, INFP, ENFP, ENTP, ISTJ, INTJ, etc. I highly doubt enneagram is confined to any single/mbti type or cognitive function. And if there is any correlation, you are pretty far off. If you want to pursue this theory, I think it would be best if you conducted Enneagram surveys in each subforum. Then you can tabulate and analyze the results to see if there are any correlations by cognitive functions, preferences, etc. 

Good luck.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

Sabrah said:


> Sorry, but when you have a theory you need evidence to support it, not in the reverse.


I said the same thing to him the other day. He has been given overwhelming evidence against his theory but doesn't care.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

I think the issue with the theory is that, according to the theories, you use four cognitive functions, but only have an enneagram tri-type, so that means everyone would be missing representation for one cognitive function.

I like the idea that the two systems could be combined, but I think viewing them as individual systems, then putting them together to form a new system would be more constructive than working with the two as they are now.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

laurie17 said:


> I think the issue with the theory is that, according to the theories, you use four cognitive functions, but only have an enneagram tri-type, so that means everyone would be missing representation for one cognitive function.
> 
> I like the idea that the two systems could be combined, but I think viewing them as individual systems, then putting them together to form a new system would be more constructive than working with the two as they are now.


Actually the 4th function may be one of the scores that don't go into tritype calculation.

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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Fried Eggz said:


> I said the same thing to him the other day. He has been given overwhelming evidence against his theory but doesn't care.


Fried, this referring to me in 3rd person thing looks like gossiping.

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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Sabrah said:


> What do you mean by 7 or 8 is missing from my type? Most ISTJs aren't 7s or 8s, and I don't fit those descriptions very well. Sorry, but when you have a theory you need evidence to support it, not in the reverse. Here is a survey I conducted a while back about ISTJ Enneagram types. http://personalitycafe.com/istj-for...6113-istjs-only-what-your-enneagram-type.html I'm not the only person to have done this. Another user did something similar way before I even joined and here are the results of his survey: http://personalitycafe.com/istj-forum-duty-fulfillers/62991-ps-types-enneagram-test.html
> 
> According to both surveys, the most common types among the ISTJs on here are: 6w5, 5w6, 1w9, and 9w1.
> 
> ...


No it's just a hunch based on type descriptions and people's enneagram results and mbti types.

Type 7 and 8 lacking from your tritype means you scored low on them. So Ne or Se might be your inferior function in mbti which might mean you are an IxxJ.

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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> Actually the 4th function may be one of the scores that don't go into tritype calculation.
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


True, but it seems like a hole in the theory, due to the cognitive functions and tri-type being so reliant upon one another. Why don't you take what you currently have and try to meld it into a new theory instead of just using these two? It will probably end up working better and be much more interesting. You could form something off the idea of cognitive functions - or how the mind functions - and deep-set fears/motivations. How the fears influence cognitive development, maybe?


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

laurie17 said:


> True, but it seems like a hole in the theory, due to the cognitive functions and tri-type being so reliant upon one another. Why don't you take what you currently have and try to meld it into a new theory instead of just using these two? It will probably end up working better and be much more interesting. You could form something off the idea of cognitive functions - or how the mind functions - and deep-set fears/motivations. How the fears influence cognitive development, maybe?


An entirely new system? I don't hink I am that capable.

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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> An entirely new system? I don't hink I am that capable.
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


You don't know until you give it a shot. Anyone can come up with new systems, all it takes is time, effort, and thought. You can start off by noting things like the different behaviour patterns between those who've had standard development and those with trauma, or ask your parents how you were raised, then compare that to your friends and see how your motivations have become different as you've grown based on that.


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Enneagram Test Results


The Enneagram is a personality system which divides the entire human personality into nine behavioral tendencies, this is your score on each...


Type 1 Perfectionism	||||	18%
Type 2	Helpfulness	||||||	30%
Type 3	Image Focus	||||||||||	34%
Type 4	Individualism	||||||	26%
Type 5	Intellectualism	||||||||||||	42%
Type 6	Security Focus	||||||	26%
Type 7	Adventurousness	||||||||||||||||	62%
Type 8	Aggressiveness	||||||||||||	42%
Type 9	Calmness	||||||||||||	46%


type	score	type behavior motivation
7	15 I must be fun and entertained to survive.
9	11 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.
5	10 I must be knowledgeable to survive.
8	10 I must be strong and in control to survive.
3	8 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.
2	7 I must be helpful and caring to survive.
4	6 I must be unique/different to survive.
6	6 I must be secure and safe to survive.
1	4 I must be perfect and good to survive.


Your main type is Type 7 
Your variant stacking is sx/sp/so
Your level of health is average


Your main type is which ever behavior you utilize most and/or prefer. Your variant reflects your scoring profile on all nine types: so = social variant (compliant, friendly), sx = sexual variant (assertive, intense), sp = self preservation variant (withdrawn, security seeking). For info on the flaws of the Enneagram system click here.






97


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

laurie17 said:


> You don't know until you give it a shot. Anyone can come up with new systems, all it takes is time, effort, and thought. You can start off by noting things like the different behaviour patterns between those who've had standard development and those with trauma, or ask your parents how you were raised, then compare that to your friends and see how your motivations have become different as you've grown based on that.


It doesn't overlap with my current line of work so I can't take it beyond a past-time hobby.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

FakeLefty said:


> type	score	type behavior motivation
> 7	15 I must be fun and entertained to survive.
> 9	11 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.
> 5	10 I must be knowledgeable to survive.
> ...


7w8 9w8 5w4 3w2 = Ne Si Ti Fe~ ENTP?


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> 7w8 9w8 5w4 3w2 = Ne Si Ti Fe~ ENTP?


*shrugs*

I doubt that I'm an Ne dom.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

@Grehoy 

6w7-9-4 = Te-Ne-Si-Fi, I'm ENFP. Remember that trifix is defined clockwise and not by how strong the fix is. Used to think I was a 4 and I'm very 7-ish for a 6w7. Certain that I'm a core 6 and I'm kinda Te- ish for an NFP.

There is something to the idea imo.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

FreeBeer said:


> @Grehoy
> 
> 6w7-9-4 = Te-Ne-Si-Fi, I'm ENFP. Remember that trifix is defined clockwise and not by how strong the fix is. Used to think I was a 4 and I'm very 7-ish for a 6w7. Certain that I'm a core 6 and I'm kinda Te- ish for an NFP.
> 
> There is something to the idea imo.


Where does it say it should be defined clockwise? I didn't know that.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

FakeLefty said:


> *shrugs*
> 
> I doubt that I'm an Ne dom.


Why's that?


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Why's that?


I'm present-oriented
I'm grounded in reality and deal better with concrete stuff
I don't think I put that much emphasis on possibilities

Who knows? I've been described as other types before. *shrugs*


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## BeatrixKiddo (May 28, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> 4w3 8w7 1w9 = Fi Se Ni = ISFP


Well, I don't relate very much to the description of ISFP, only for the artistic part and the interest for aestethics. 

Then, I got pretty odd results, especially the 8w7. If I must be an 8, it would be 8w9 for sure, the description of 8w7 doesn't fit AT ALL with my personality, while the 8w9 is closer. 

Your theory might work for some but can't be 100% accurate in my opinion. It is based on an internet free test in the first place, which are not very trustable.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Grehoy said:


> Where does it say it should be defined clockwise? I didn't know that.


The numbering order is clockwise from 1 to 9, otherwise my sig would say 6w7-4-9 Sp/Sx.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> It can't be evading when I don't even understand the statement or its relevance.


What *MBTI* type do those enneagram 1s in the video look like?


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> 2 is actually the type that charms and manipulates. 3 is much more flamboyant in its image of seeking success etc. They will openly tell you "these are all my trophies". 2 doesn't do that.
> 
> Then you are missing the point I was trying to raise.


This describes the difference between 2s and 3s. 2s need to be needed. 3s need to be admired\revered\held in high esteem.



> THREE
> 
> COMPETITIVE ACHIEVER
> 
> ...


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> This describes the difference between 2s and 3s. 2s need to be needed. 3s need to be admired\revered\held in high esteem.


Why don't you read actual and proper descriptions of the types? 2 is much more seductive than type 3. 3 can be charismatic, but so can 2. You are getting hung up over buzzwords but you aren't understanding the types at an actual conceptual level. There's a reason why type 2 is associated with pride and 3 with vanity.



Grehoy said:


> What *MBTI* type do those enneagram 1s in the video look like?


I'm at work now so I can't look but I fail to see why that is relevant? Any MTBI type can be a 1.


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## StoneMoon (Dec 23, 2013)

I haven't really studied ennegram very well yet, but I've gotten the impression that while MBTI is more about "nature" enneagram would be more about "nurture" so they wouldn't really have much correlation, rather they would be able to explain some differences in same MBTI types and same enneagram types?


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## Translucent (Apr 8, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> I mean you should at least be able to tell whether they are extraverts or introverts after a 3-4 min glance.





ephemereality said:


> And what relevance does that have when it comes to the enneagram?


I'm assuming he is still pertaining to his original idea and making associations on how an Enneatype 1 would manifest itself in real time interactions, externally, based on general observations of how the cognitive functions operate in a functional stack.


He's too fixated on the details. I see a lot of nit-picking of them as well.
I mean, what kind of a general statement is this?

"You are too cool to be an INFJ." That's enough to lose the credibility of his backed-up evidence.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

sixtenaitelism said:


> I'm assuming he is still pertaining to his original idea and making associations on how an Enneatype 1 would manifest itself in real time interactions, externally, based on general observations of how the cognitive functions operate in a functional stack.
> 
> 
> He's too fixated in the details. I see a lot of nit-picking of them as well.
> ...


Why are you refereing to me in 3rd person?

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## Translucent (Apr 8, 2014)

Grehoy said:


> Why are you refereing to me in 3rd person?
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


My mistake. Let me edit my previous post.

I'm assuming you are still pertaining to your original idea and making associations on how an Enneatype 1 would manifest itself in real time interactions, externally, based on general observations of how the cognitive functions operate in a functional stack.


You are too fixated on the details. I see a lot of nit-picking of them as well.
I mean, what kind of a general statement is this?

"You are too cool to be an INFJ." That's enough to lose the credibility of your backed-up evidence.


Does it carry more of a personal vibe now?


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

sixtenaitelism said:


> My mistake. Let me edit my previous post.
> 
> I'm assuming you are still pertaining to your original idea and making associations on how an Enneatype 1 would manifest itself in real time interactions, externally, based on general observations of how the cognitive functions operate in a functional stack.
> 
> ...


Thanks.

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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

OP types me at ESFJ. :blushed: I, hereby, nominate him, for his sparkling contributions to our collective ennea-lightenment, as JUNE MOTM 2014. :kitteh:


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Virtue (Maturity?) of each type:










Vice of each type:










Desired goal of each type:










Under Stress behaviour of each type:


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

There's specific Enneagram definitions for all of those things so it doesn't quite add up to the pop culture meanings of those things, at least on the part of the virtue or passion/vice.
Still, don't see how this highly would connect and correlate with the MBTI.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

@_Grehoy_ You misunderstand the scope of Jung's functions in relation to the Enneagram. Jung's work on cognitive functions focused on the intellect of man, he was merely detailing its composition and method of operation. The Enneagram, in contrast, describes something of a greater magnitude. It describes the spiritual composition of man and exposes the egotistical manifestation which results from his inherently imbalanced being. The purpose of the Enneagram is to help man dissolve his ego and balance his spirit. The correlation you find between JCF and the Enneagram is a result of both being tools used to observe man's fundamental composition. You make the flawed decision to form a causative link between the two, but there is none; and there can't be one, because Jung's functions describe something on a lesser plane, while the Enneagram describes something on a greater plane.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

ephemereality said:


> Why don't you read actual and proper descriptions of the types? 2 is much more seductive than type 3. 3 can be charismatic, but so can 2. You are getting hung up over buzzwords but you aren't understanding the types at an actual conceptual level. There's a reason why type 2 is associated with pride and 3 with vanity.
> I'm at work now so I can't look but I fail to see why that is relevant? Any MTBI type can be a 1.













in fact, 2s are usually _more_ charismatic than 3s. the latter choose their times to shine much more deliberately, preferring to fly under the radar until their "lines are memorized". 3s can be very bold and glamorous externally, but their boldness is very deliberate and they can just as easily switch to being more cautious and conscientious. in fact, they're generally significantly more conscientious and careful than 2s (who tend to be more impulsive and quick to act out of feeling. this makes them more charismatic, relatable and, at times, endearing, but it also causes them to get caught in all kinds of stupid messes and unnecessary drama that 3s are very good at avoiding)


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> in fact, 2s are usually _more_ charismatic than 3s. the latter choose their times to shine much more deliberately, preferring to fly under the radar until their "lines are memorized". 3s can be very bold and glamorous externally, but their boldness is very deliberate and they can just as easily switch to being more cautious and conscientious. in fact, they're generally significantly more conscientious and careful than 2s (who tend to be more impulsive and quick to act out of feeling. this makes them more charismatic, relatable and, at times, endearing, but it also causes them to get caught in all kinds of stupid messes and unnecessary drama that 3s are very good at avoiding)


Agreed as a whole. Patrick Bateman from American Psycho is definitely not a type 3 I find charismatic at all XD Showy yes? Someone who would motivate or impress me? No.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

ephemereality said:


> Agreed as a whole. Patrick Bateman from American Psycho is definitely not a type 3 I find charismatic at all XD Showy yes? Someone who would motivate or impress me? No.


bingo! vanity is cold, shallow and non-distinctive; pride is loud, full bodied and emotionally accessible.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

JSRS01 said:


> @_Grehoy_ You misunderstand the scope of Jung's functions in relation to the Enneagram. Jung's work on cognitive functions focused on the intellect of man, he was merely detailing its composition and method of operation. The Enneagram, in contrast, describes something of a greater magnitude. It describes the spiritual composition of man and exposes the egotistical manifestation which results from his inherently imbalanced being. The purpose of the Enneagram is to help man dissolve his ego and balance his spirit. The correlation you find between JCF and the Enneagram is a result of both being tools used to observe man's fundamental composition. You make the flawed decision to form a causative link between the two, but there is none; and there can't be one, because Jung's functions describe something on a lesser plane, while the Enneagram describes something on a greater plane.


What you fail to understand is that ennneagram describes the drive and motivation of a person whereas mbti functions are devices/tools that one goes after those drives.

So enneagram is the software and mbti functions are the hardware/devices.

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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> bingo! vanity is cold, shallow and non-distinctive; pride is loud, full bodied and emotionally accessible.


False pride is not.

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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> in fact, 2s are usually _more_ charismatic than 3s. the latter choose their times to shine much more deliberately, preferring to fly under the radar until their "lines are memorized". 3s can be very bold and glamorous externally, but their boldness is very deliberate and they can just as easily switch to being more cautious and conscientious. in fact, they're generally significantly more conscientious and careful than 2s (who tend to be more impulsive and quick to act out of feeling. this makes them more charismatic, relatable and, at times, endearing, but it also causes them to get caught in all kinds of stupid messes and unnecessary drama that 3s are very good at avoiding)


Previously we were talking about whether 2 or 3 is more manipulative rather than charismatic.

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## Hiemal (Jan 5, 2014)

lol @Grehoy is yeghor from TypC. 

Don't bother trying to argue against this theory, it's been festering over there for some time without any compromise or change (from an outside perspective).


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Alea_iacta_est said:


> lol @Grehoy is yeghor from TypC.
> 
> Don't bother trying to argue against this theory, it's been festering over there for some time without any compromise or change (from an outside perspective).


Hi there Alea.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@Greyhoy do you think Patrick Bateman is charismatic? He's the quintessential fictive 3.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> What you fail to understand is that ennneagram describes the drive and motivation of a person whereas mbti functions are devices/tools that one goes after those drives.


I've studied the Enneagram for years, I'm more than familiar with the beliefs and ideas surrounding it. The Enneagram does _not_ describe the motivations of an individual. People's motivations are their own and the "motivation" of any given type can be as equally applicable to any other type. You canonize and regurgitate hive-mind statements without the slightest original thought and hilariously become increasingly defensive as free thought encroaches upon and withers away your "infallible" delusions. I'd be willing to bet you came directly from MBTI to the Enneagram, unwittingly hell bent to bastardize it the same way so many have bastardized JCF. 

I may have never liked Palmer, but she's right about one thing: the majority of Enneagram practitioners prefer to misuse the Enneagram by aiming its focus on their horizontal plane of existence, instead of realizing its greater potential to aid an individual in the vertical ascent of attaining a higher state of consciousness. 





> So enneagram is the software and mbti functions are the hardware/devices.


That's not even a proper metaphor. JCF and the Enneagram are both "software", the physical brain would be the hardware.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Grehoy said:


> False pride is not.
> Sent via Tapatalk


2s don't have "false pride", they have real pride, just like 7s have real gluttony, 9s have real sloth, 8s have real lust etc.


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## Le9acyMuse (Mar 12, 2010)

What'd be interesting and effective is to form an Enneagram/MBTI expedition team with people that can consistently and coherently back up their conclusions. Base it online, or from wherever, then compare results. There's too much doubt and irrationale around the populace to simply trust everything you hear. You'll only get amateur statistics if you take the word of untrained people.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 2s don't have "false pride", they have real pride, just like 7s have real gluttony, 9s have real sloth, 8s have real lust etc.


Those are negative traits. When's pride negative?

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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> Those are negative traits. When's pride negative?
> 
> Sent via Tapatalk


Pride is a negative trait.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

JSRS01 said:


> Pride is a negative trait.


How?

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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

> How you are fallen from heaven,
> Lucifer, son of the morning!
> How you are cut down to the ground,
> you who laid the nations low!
> ...


 @Grehoy I'm not a Christian, but it's pretty clear why pride isn't a virtue.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

JSRS01 said:


> @Grehoy I'm not a Christian, but it's pretty clear why pride isn't a virtue.


I think pride can be healthy as a healthy dose of narcissism.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> I think pride can be healthy as a healthy dose of narcissism.





> *
> Pride*
> 1. A high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.


There is no healthy level of pride. Pride is defined as an _*excess*_ of belief in one's superiority or greatness. Self acceptance and self-confidence is fine, pride is not.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> @Greyhoy do you think Patrick Bateman is charismatic? He's the quintessential fictive 3.


He has the compulsion/desire to be charismatic and adored yet fails to achieve that, hence his psyche gets fractured.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

JSRS01 said:


> There is no healthy level of pride. Pride is defined as an _*excess*_ of belief in one's superiority or greatness. Self acceptance and self-confidence is fine, pride is not.


1pride noun \ˈprīd\
: a feeling that you respect yourself and deserve to be respected by other people

: a feeling that you are more important or better than other people

: a feeling of happiness that you get when you or someone you know does something good, difficult, etc.




> *Pride is an inwardly directed emotion that carries two common meanings. With a negative connotation, pride refers to an inflated sense of one's personal status or accomplishments, often used synonymously with hubris. With a positive connotation, pride refers to a satisfied sense of attachment toward one's own or another's choices and actions, or toward a whole group of people, and is a product of praise, independent self-reflection, or a fulfilled feeling of belonging. *Philosophers and social psychologists have noted that pride is a complex secondary emotion *which requires the development of a sense of self* and the mastery of relevant conceptual distinctions (e.g., that pride is distinct from happiness and joy) through language-based interaction with others.[1] Some social psychologists identify it as linked to a signal of high social status.[2] In contrast pride could also be defined as a disagreement with the truth. One definition of pride in the first sense comes from St. Augustine: "the love of one's own excellence".[3] In this sense, the opposite of pride is either humility or guilt; the latter in particular being a sense of one's own failure in contrast to Augustine's notion of excellence.
> 
> Pride is sometimes viewed as excessive or as a vice, sometimes as proper or as a virtue.


The vices in the enneagram figure are aimed to point out unhealthy coping mechanisms. How can being proud of one's self be an unhealthy coping mechanism? 

I think only when it starts to blind one to his\her shortcomings or faults. In other cases, being proud of one's accomplishments and self must be a sign of a health sense of self-esteem.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> He has the compulsion/desire to be charismatic and adored yet fails to achieve that, hence his psyche gets fractured.


I didn't ask you whether he has a compulsion or a desire to be charismatic but whether he _is_ charismatic.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> I didn't ask you whether he has a compulsion or a desire to be charismatic but whether he _is_ charismatic.


Why is this discussion keeps coming back to being charismatic? 

To me, no he is not. To you? Would your opinion change if you saw his persona rather than his true self as depicted in the movie, i.e., when he had his game on?

Are you trying to suggest 2s are more charismatic than 3s so 2s are more manipulative? I can't follow the discussion.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> 1pride noun \ˈprīd\
> : a feeling that you respect yourself and *deserve to be respected by other people*
> 
> : a feeling that you are *more important or better than other people*
> ...


For the sake of discussion, words and their definitions must be concrete. If a single word has multiple or contradictory definitions, that word becomes, by definition, incapable of accurately describing that which it seeks to describe. Pride is solely defined by the _inordinate _belief of one's own greatness. 

Like I said before, it's perfectly good to be confident and content with oneself, but it's not good to view oneself as inherently godlike. 



> The vices in the enneagram figure are aimed to point out unhealthy coping mechanisms. How can being proud of one's self be an unhealthy coping mechanism?


Pride isn't a coping mechanism. Pride facilitates the ego's twisted nature. 

Via Ichazo: 



> Point 2 is known as “Ego-flattery”. The fixation is also known as “Over-Independent”.
> 
> This ego is derived from the Image Ego, which is a response to the Relation Instinct. The psychic poison of the Relation Instinct at the root of Ego-Flattery is Envy.
> 
> ...





> I think only when it starts to blind one to his\her shortcomings or faults. In other cases, being proud of one's accomplishments and self must be a sign of a health sense of self-esteem.


Do you know the value of your opinions? I do. Nothing. What you're terming as pride is in reality contentedness with oneself, and that is, by any correct definition of the term, _not _pride.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

JSRS01 said:


> ...


So you don't feel you deserve to be respected by others?


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

JSRS01 said:


> If a single word has multiple or contradictory definitions, that word becomes, by definition, incapable of accurately describing that which it seeks to describe. Pride is solely defined by the _inordinate _belief of one's own greatness.


That is hubris you are talking about.



> hu·bris noun \ˈhyü-brəs\
> : a great or foolish amount of pride or confidence


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> Why is this discussion keeps coming back to being charismatic?
> 
> To me, no he is not. To you? Would your opinion change if you saw his persona rather than his true self as depicted in the movie, i.e., when he had his game on?
> 
> Are you trying to suggest 2s are more charismatic than 3s so 2s are more manipulative? I can't follow the discussion.


Because you said type 3s are charismatic. I am trying to point out that 3s don't have to be.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> That is hubris you are talking about.


Hubris is synonymous to pride. You may not understand linguistics, but I certainly do.


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## Blystone (Oct 11, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> So you don't feel you deserve to be respected by others?


No. I don't _deserve_ respect any more than I _deserve_ sex from women. Being and egotistical fuck-wit isn't my idea of happiness.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Grehoy said:


> 5_6 (70) 9_8 (64) 4_3 (65) 7_1 (46) = Ti or Te > Fi > Si > Ne ~ This looks like ISTJ or ESTJ.
> 
> Damn, I seem to be typing everyone as xSTJs today.


Yet I got INTP tho.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Necrophilous said:


> Yet I got INTP tho.


In which test? If you are referring to your socionics test result of LII = INTj, I believe it is a common and widespread misconception that one has to convert j to p and vice-versa so as to convert from socionics to MBTI.

If you read LII description and compare it to MBTI INTJ description, you'll see that they overlap.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Grehoy said:


> In which test? If you are referring to your socionics test result of LII = INTj, I believe it is a common and widespread misconception that one has to convert j to p and vice-versa so as to convert from socionics to MBTI.
> 
> If you read LII description and compare it to MBTI INTJ description, you'll see that they overlap.


That wasn't a socionics test though.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Necrophilous said:


> That wasn't a socionics test though.


So you got ISTJ in JCF, INTJ in socionics and INTP on another? Which one is true?


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Grehoy said:


> So you got ISTJ in JCF, INTJ in socionics and INTP on another? Which one is true?


I don't know. That's for you to figure out my boy.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Necrophilous said:


> I don't know. That's for you to figure out my boy.


Well, I already commented on your type. You gotta read the type descriptions to see which one fits the most.


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

I find the logical inference of your opening exposition to be exceptionally thought-provoking and rigorously supported by overwhelming amount of data. It showcases outstanding and acute reasoning skills that should be highly respected.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Nakama said:


> I find the logical inference of your opening exposition to be exceptionally thought-provoking and rigorously supported by overwhelming amount of data. It showcases outstanding and acute reasoning skills that should be highly respected.


You forgot to type /sarcasm off at the end. Anyway, how do you reconcile enneagram 2s helpfulness and 3s approval seeking behaviour with INTJ and INTp?


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Anyway, how do you reconcile enneagram 2s helpfulness and 3s approval seeking behaviour with INTJ and INTp?


What's the problem?


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Nakama said:


> What's the problem?


Do you go out of your way to help strangers as well as try to earn approval of anyone you come across?


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Do you go out of your way to help strangers


Sometimes.



> as well as try to earn approval of anyone you come across?


I don't need to ''earn'' everyone's approval. If they don't like me naturally (or I dislike them) then it means we just don't get along in the first place.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Nakama said:


> Sometimes.
> 
> I don't need to ''earn'' everyone's approval. If they don't like me naturally, or I dislike them, then it means we just don't get along in the first place.


Then you are not a 2w3.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Type 1 Perfectionism||||||||||||||54%Type 2Helpfulness||||||26%Type 3Image Focus||||18%Type 4Individualism||||||||||38%Type 5Intellectualism||||||||||||50%Type 6Security Focus||||||||||||42%Type 7Adventurousness||||||||||||||54%Type 8Aggressiveness||||||||||||||||||74%Type 9Calmness||||||||||||||||62%





typescoretype behavior motivation818 I must be strong and in control to survive.915 I must maintain peace/calm to survive.113 I must be perfect and good to survive.713 I must be fun and entertained to survive.512 I must be knowledgeable to survive.610 I must be secure and safe to survive.49 I must be unique/different to survive.26 I must be helpful and caring to survive.34 I must be impressive and attractive to survive.


Your main type is *Type 8* 
Your variant stacking is *sx/sp/so*
Your level of health is *very low, i.e. very unhealthy*


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Then you are not a 2w3.


I see. 2w3's seek approval of _everyone_ they meet. They also go out of their way to help all strangers they come across. Additionally, this is true for every single 2w3 out there.

Thank you for furthering my understanding.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

ephemereality said:


> Type 1Perfectionism||||||||||||||54%Type 2Helpfulness||||||26%Type 3Image Focus||||18%Type 4Individualism||||||||||38%Type 5Intellectualism||||||||||||50%Type 6Security Focus||||||||||||42%Type 7Adventurousness||||||||||||||54%Type 8Aggressiveness||||||||||||||||||74%Type 9Calmness||||||||||||||||62%
> 
> 
> 
> ...


8_9 (33) 1_7 (26) 5_6 (22) 4_2 (15) = Se Nx Ti Fe ~ This is garbled but one thing that is certain is that you are an F inferior type. This would make sense if you were Ti Se Ni Fe = ISTP. However, that would require you to have given more preference to knowledge over strength.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Nakama said:


> I see. 2w3's seek approval of _everyone_ they meet. They also go out of their way to help all strangers they come across. Additionally, this is true for every single 2w3 out there.
> 
> Thank you for furthering my understanding.


Do you feel a need to be needed by others?

Do you feel a need to be loved and revered by others?


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Do you feel a need to be loved and revered by others?


I currently feel a need to be liked by you. You're the only person on my mind right now. Can we be friends?


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Nakama said:


> I currently feel a need to be liked by you. You're the only person on my mind right now. Can we be friends?


Done, why's that?


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Done, why's that?


Why not? Always nice to make new friends. ^^


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Grehoy said:


> 8_9 (33) 1_7 (26) 5_6 (22) 4_2 (15) = Se Nx Ti Fe ~ This is garbled but one thing that is certain is that you are an F inferior type. This would make sense if you were Ti Se Ni Fe = ISTP. However, that would require you to have given more preference to knowledge over strength.


Who would have thought I was such a unique person? It satisfies me so deeply you wouldn't know.


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## Wolfskralle (Nov 29, 2013)

Just out of curiosity, what those results gave me as a type, according to your system? ISFP?




> Type 1 Perfectionism	||||||||||||||	54%
> Type 2	Helpfulness	||||	18%
> Type 3	Image Focus	||||||||||||	50%
> Type 4	Individualism	||||||||||||||||	70%
> ...


By the way this is result of the long enneagram test from similar minds site, I usually test 5w4 > 8w9, 2 is always very low.


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

wolf12345 said:


> Just out of curiosity, what those results gave me as a type, according to your system? ISFP?
> 
> By the way this is result of the long enneagram test from similar minds site, I usually test 5w4 > 8w9, 2 is always very low.


4_3 (60) 9_8 (60) 1_7 (53) 5_6 (43)

Fi Si Ni Ti. your 9 and 8 are close so that might as well be Se.

So Fi Se Ni T hence ISFP is plausible. 

Sent via Tapatalk


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