# Toxic work environments



## Negotiator (Mar 15, 2018)

I'm curious what you consider toxicity at work. I've been quite lucky overall, working with polite and positive people. But there have been incidents where I should have reported it, but didn't because we were "friends" (I mean sexual harassment in particular).

Some other examples of lunatics I've come across:

One guy who said a country was not in a civil war "because no one's getting raped, haha"
One guy who gave my colleague vaginal bleach
One woman who just hated me for not being part of her religion and screamed at me every day at 9am.

So, what are your experiences?


----------



## Miaristan (Nov 5, 2021)

Hi,

Prior being involved in my ongoing fantasy project, I worked in a hardware store during three years, the first months were pretty sympathetic and relaxed, but during the last year, things were more complicated and tensions between a work colleague and myself were rising.

I could say I'm someone particularly sensitive to criticism, and constant negative feedback may make me anxious, but in the same, I think this is something which happens to a lot of youth who work in poorly valued jobs. The problem is that the society harshly judges people who are insufficiently conscientious and are accused of not "contributing to the society", and that may be even further problematic when someone has autism (like myself) and may have severe anxiety and attention issues. In addition, the professional life may require someone to abide by a rigid routine, which is something I struggle a lot with.

Fortunately, I chosen to be artist and writer, which could be more ideal jobs for people who are less conscientious and want more flexible schedules and soft deadlines, while being able to think of its passion as de facto an occupation. In addition, a lot of artists are people who suffer from anxiety and depression and they sometimes work well isolated from the social crowd with only a few positive people, and there doesn't seem to be the rigid structure we could find in finance/health/politics-related jobs.

Cordially, and have a good night!


----------



## Angry-Spaghetti (Feb 25, 2021)

Unnecessarily hurting other emotionally or physically for no reason other than they have inner turmoil or trauma. They've learnt to project that and cause pain rather than solve the underlying issues with their control problems and powerlessness insecurities. I hate them and pity them, I've worked with a few too many of those types of people.


----------



## Miaristan (Nov 5, 2021)

Angry-Spaghetti said:


> Unnecessarily hurting other emotionally or physically for no reason other than they have inner turmoil or trauma. They've learnt to project that and cause pain rather than solve the underlying issues with their control problems and powerlessness insecurities. I hate them and pity them, I've worked with a few too many of those types of people.


I also noticed that a lot of people use the fact that they would have a "stressful life" to justify their toxicity and their refusal to be more considerate with people around them. They should understand that being rude and aggressive could never be justified, especially because they wouldn't solve their issues and could even be further stressed because of that.

Myself I noticed that even if we do our best to remain calm and avoid conflicts, there are a lot of toxic people who will anyway want a conflict with us. This is exactly how we can recognize toxic people from others.


----------



## Angry-Spaghetti (Feb 25, 2021)

Miaristan said:


> I also noticed that a lot of people use the fact that they would have a "stressful life" to justify their toxicity and their refusal to be more considerate with people around them. They should understand that being rude and aggressive could never be justified, especially because they wouldn't solve their issues and could even be further stressed because of that.
> 
> Myself I noticed that even if we do our best to remain calm and avoid conflicts, there are a lot of toxic people who will anyway want a conflict with us. This is exactly how we can recognize toxic people from others.


I wish I could fix them and that I could've been there to help them with their trauma when they were young.

Thanks for the reply. 🙏


----------



## MidnightFlight (Nov 6, 2021)

1. Socially manipulative people making rumors in their workplaces to destroy reputations.

2. Gaslighting.

3. Blackmailing.

4. Stealing people's things.

5. Bribing the boss to let you have exclusive ability for bullying colleagues.

6. Racism.

7. Transphobia.

8. Homophobia.

9. Misogyny.

10. Misandry.

11. Nonbinaryphobia.


----------



## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Depends on your view of toxic, they differ for everyone. I would say a better word is incompatible. I'm currently experiencing a toxic work environment. It all started with the pandemic, but actually it started before that. In my case, I'm surrounded by a bunch of HYPER democrats. So much so they blatantly criticize anyone who could possibly have a differing opinion. Not about TRUMP! But about politics in general. I think it was said best when I was told, "No we cannot AGREE to DISAGREE because I find you morally abhorrent...."

This wasn't at me, of course. I never made it known before that I consider myself socially progressive, and fiscally republican. A distinction that is very blurred these days since all the financial issues come down to some kind of social responsibility. I'm teach a man to fish, not give them a fish. Though, I will say, with the automation of jobs, that universal income isn't looking like such a bad idea...except...at what point will I have the opportunity to change my status in life? (sorry rant). 

There are other things too. It's so freaking "political" and not political in what party you associate with, but political in who, what, when, where, and how, you're allowed to talk with others. As someone who doesn't give a single shit about hierarchy, this is incredibly stressful to me. I can't remember people's names or titles, so I just speak to everyone the same way. This, clearly, has caused bad rapport. I keep being told to work my chain of command, but it's catch-22s constantly. There IS no way to work the chain of command, because that would mean, my boss, is not doing well by her boss, and their boss, and everyone needs to make sure everyone else looks good. So there is NO chain of command. It's just there for show. 

And then there are these people I'm working with on this project who talk with their whole jaws (Nor Cal folks), don't know shit about getting ANYTHING done, and make me sit through hours upon hours of meetings to come to conclusions like.... "We're going to map out a menu for dinners and then help you implement those menu changes in a way your kids won't mind!!" "Great!" "First let's talk about australian tree frogs for a fucking hour to demonstrate "unintended consequences, but AFTER that, we're going to tell you what should be on your menu and duck out, thanks for the million dollars!"

Omg, I could have done that shit. All the while we just stroke each other's egos. "Look how progressive we are." "Look how above everyone else we are..." "Uh......" I think it really started getting to me when this company did this presentation about how we were addressing the BLM movement, by showcasing the NONEXISTENT work we did regarding racial inequities. 

It's just a big fucking circle jerk. And I'm like, "Sorry, I can get better orgasms, jerking myself alone..."

Then there are also the issues of everyone thinking it's okay to ask me about my personal life, when I'm struggling with dealing with going back into the office. Or how I was told, "We're not consumers, we're staff." OR how I was told, with a wiggle and a laugh, "Hahah! You're doc is writing you off with limitations. Huh! PROVE TO ME why you deserve it!" I was like, can they even ask that?....Legally? 

Or the fact that I've said things or made jokes with a beloved black coworker of mine that everyone gasps at, not because it was offensive, but waiting to see whether it WOULD be offensive. And now, I'm like just SHUT UP (to myself). Because I can't talk to people the way I used to, I AM focused on race right now. But I don't think it's what it's supposed to...I've never felt so uncomfortable...as when apologizing to a man I respect because I didn't realize he was black. How RACIST is that shit!

It happened after a coworker of mine who I always tease about his voice said, hello. The joke is, it's so deep and booming, I would reply, "Yes god!?!" Then one day he was walking by and I was making a point to my other coworkers that he sounds like God! Lol. He has ONE of THOSE voices! So I asked him to say, "What's in your wallet?"

Omg, he peeked around the door and was like, "I am NOT saying that!" And, I cracked up. But then I was like, "Oh shit, how could I be so insensitive?!?" Everyone looked at me, and I quickly tried to back peddle...."I'm sorry I didn't realize..." Except NOW I'm the fucking racist, for seeing my coworker (with the booming voice of god) as someone I could joke around with. 

Because I don't understand these things, and frankly I might be mentally impaired. Actually no, I am NOT mentally impaired. That's one of the things I'm struggling with right now. I blamed myself for years for not being able to walk the line when it comes to morality, values, and social awareness....except....once you've exhausted everything that was in your power to do, and it's still happening...Well...

Then it's not me (I actually have a very robust AND consistent morality), and it's time to stop blaming myself for everything that goes wrong. And if this is how I'm feeling at work. And, ONLY, at work, then there is something very out of place. 

It's going to come down to what's out of place. Me, the morals, and values (which they do perfectly on paper, I know, I helped), or toxic environment. 2/3 of those things fall on me to fix. 2/3 of those things I'm too chicken shit to do right now. 

Anyway, tl;dr a toxic work environment depends on the values you would like to see in a workplace. For me, I'd rather see brutal honesty, and let the work speak for itself. For others, they want a harmonious work environment. You know what could solve this all....

ALLOWING PEOPLE TO WORK FROM FUCKING HOME!


----------



## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Or I'm sorry, their house! I realize home is now a stigmatizing word against people who are houseless.


----------



## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Remember those cheesy ass plaques that said, "Home is where your heart lives?" That's BS, home IS where your house is, because society is looking out for YOU. _slapkneelaughingemoji_


----------



## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

My complaints are things I should of spoken out about in my last job, so I will take some of the responsibility (not all, as I believe management shouldn't put that amount of pressure on people):

Dumping all the work on the harder workers. How about incentivising slackers to work better.

Constantly asking the same person to cover work when people are off.

Like I said, I should of said no more than I did. But even when I started saying no, the constant pestering started getting annoying.

On the bright side, it pissed me off so much I found myself a less stressful better paying job.

As far as toxicity amongst workers goes:

Having political arguments in the workplace (politics should stay at home).

Constant whining about pay.

Dumping work onto other people instead of learning to do it yourself or asking them to teach you.

Knowledge hoarding.


----------



## MidnightFlight (Nov 6, 2021)

Harassing workers to work faster because of problems business owners won't fix because they want all the money to themselves. I know some former employees who quit their jobs because of toxic business owners who treated an employee like a wage slave while harassing them to work faster for example. Also, these same business owners prevented their work environment from making employees be trained properly before being hired. These same business owners have neglected their business building infrastructure because of it starting to fall apart with malfunctioning machines without fixing that. So, there were former employees who quit their jobs because they do not want to deal with a job instabililty from poor infrastructure. Some of those same former employees were parents trying to find jobs for job stability to make sure their children were not barely getting by.


----------



## Negotiator (Mar 15, 2018)

Angry-Spaghetti said:


> Unnecessarily hurting other emotionally or physically for no reason other than they have inner turmoil or trauma. They've learnt to project that and cause pain rather than solve the underlying issues with their control problems and powerlessness insecurities. I hate them and pity them, I've worked with a few too many of those types of people.


Yes, what I find strange is when you confront toxic bosses, there's always an excuse. "I'm under pressure from my boss/clients", etc. Well sorry but that shouldn't be _my_ problem. You're getting paid to deal with your own stressors by yourself. 

I know there's a "chain of screaming" but I thought that was more in certain professions such as sales. Which is why I don't work in sales!


----------



## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

recycled_lube_oil said:


> .....
> 
> Dumping work onto other people instead of learning to do it yourself or asking them to teach you.
> 
> Knowledge hoarding.


This is a neat little trick from some people who are absolutely in over their heads. They ask you to "teach them", and get offended when you don't have the time. Because in walking them through it, or "teaching" them, you've essentially done the work not FOR them, but "with" them. I literally entered so much fucking data today that I now feel like I sprained my wrist and can't push on anything. So, when you want me to take time out of my day to teach you the difference of cut/copy and paste and save as...

Just saying, "Teach me," isn't always a sign of an open and willing to learn coworker. 



MidnightFlight said:


> Harassing workers to work faster because of problems business owners won't fix because they want all the money to themselves. I know some former employees who quit their jobs because of toxic business owners who treated an employee like a wage slave while harassing them to work faster for example. Also, these same business owners prevented their work environment from making employees be trained properly before being hired. These same business owners have neglected their business building infrastructure because of it starting to fall apart with malfunctioning machines without fixing that. So, there were former employees who quit their jobs because they do not want to deal with a job instabililty from poor infrastructure. Some of those same former employees were parents trying to find jobs for job stability to make sure their children were not barely getting by.


YES! I had three jobs in a row that told me, "We normally have two people for this position but since you're here, I don't think we NEED it!" I was like, "Hahaha! Yeah? Then pay me at least 1.5x my salary!" ....Mother fuckers... and while it was fine to do the job of two people easily, then there comes the eventual workplace "who's more deserving of time off" toxic cycle. That's when all employees are overworked, and start calling out sick. Then the employees who have to cover them start calling out, and eventually you start calling out too. So it's like nature's way of signaling ALL your employees are overworked. 

I was part of a team of allegedly 5, but with me there, it was 4. Then one coworker went out on medical leave, and the other also had an extended period of absence. I literally did the job of 4 people. Then when they came back, they were so overwhelmed with reacclimating, and that's when I took some vacation (leave I had most certainly earned). So then when I came back, they were so overwhelmed, they took more leave. There were no more than 2 of us working at any given time, and I finally ended up quitting. I think I was initially paid $8.25 an hour. Then after I quit they asked me to return @ $9/hr. That lasted MAYBE three months before I was like, this shit is crazy...

I'll never forget having two phones (one in each ear) while standing up typing, organizing the line, and trying to collect a copayment at the same time. Sweat actually started dripping down my face while I tried to extend myself to the copy machine. A patient stood in front of me and was like, "Goddamn, I've never seen someone work like that in my life!" Lol, he was pretty old.


----------



## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

One different type of example of a toxic work environment that I've seen is people who only have eye for their own work and refuse to work together on things with their colleagues. 
It creates an athmosphere of uncooperation and 'everyone for themselves' that I would describe as toxic. 

Completely different type of toxicity, but I think it's pretty common.


----------



## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

Ms. Aligned said:


> This is a neat little trick from some people who are absolutely in over their heads. They ask you to "teach them", and get offended when you don't have the time. Because in walking them through it, or "teaching" them, you've essentially done the work not FOR them, but "with" them. I literally entered so much fucking data today that I now feel like I sprained my wrist and can't push on anything. So, when you want me to take time out of my day to teach you the difference of cut/copy and paste and save as...
> 
> Just saying, "Teach me," isn't always a sign of an open and willing to learn coworker.


Sorry, I should of made it clearer as I didn't mean that old chestnut and I know what you mean. At my previous workplace, we took on a giant client. Who's workload eclipsed all 20 of our current clients put together. Somebody was assigned a role as "Technical Lead" and given the relevant payrise. They spent 3 - 6 months onboarding the systems and taking part in "Knowledge Transfers". They were then supposed to create documentation and provide training to the rest of the team who would support this client. None of this happened, his response was "You should learn how to Google". Anyway whenever something went down, he would always come to the rescue and look good as he knew the specific ins and outs of the clients environment and systems.

Sure knowing how use Google is useful for generic things. But when it comes to the way a clients environment is setup and business processes, business contacts of the client, google does not really help.

I have done onboarding myself and I created documentation as I went along. The sooner the knowledge was shared, the sooner people wouldn't pester me for things that only I would know.

Also in regards to new starters, I was constantly involved in training. So my method was Show them, Talk them through it, shadow them. And they had a month long period where they could ask any stupid questions they wanted.

Some people however, viewed new starters as if they couldn't do company specific tasks straight the way without being shown, they should not have the job.

What got even more annoying about this was me and one other person would always end up responsible for training new starters (as well as our actual jobs). There was no sharing the responsibility.

But anyway I have left that company now. I am still in touch with a few people and I am glad I left from what I hear. Things are only getting worst not better.


----------



## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

For me, it’s criticism for purely “criticism’s sake” that annoys me. 
In two of the places I’ve worked (I’m 23 and so far I’ve worked three jobs), these positions typically have had high turnover rates. This essentially means that most people who get the job end up leaving shortly after. Mainly due to pre-conceived expectations not being met, workplace culture, managerial-style, etc. At least in my experience, I think it’s due to the managers not being able to be more precise in criticism. It can get pretty stressful for an employee.

It’s a bit difficult to gauge your overall performance if everything you do is seemingly bad, or what to primarily focus your efforts on improving if everything you do gets pointed out. I’m all for criticism, but praise in things you do well in can be just as useful in helping people hone in on certain aspects of their craft they can improve on. My first boss had this problem, and I went home everyday during the first few months convinced I did a terrible job. But she then regarded me after as the “one of the best employees she ever had” when I later used her as a reference. So that confused me a bit, and while I was grateful for the praise, it showed me that some people mean the opposite of what they say sometimes. Which is fine in regular context, but in a workplace enviornment (where you’re regularly measured on your peformance), that can be a bit of a problem.


----------



## Miaristan (Nov 5, 2021)

Ms. Aligned said:


> Depends on your view of toxic, they differ for everyone. I would say a better word is incompatible. I'm currently experiencing a toxic work environment. It all started with the pandemic, but actually it started before that. In my case, I'm surrounded by a bunch of HYPER democrats. So much so they blatantly criticize anyone who could possibly have a differing opinion. Not about TRUMP! But about politics in general. I think it was said best when I was told, "No we cannot AGREE to DISAGREE because I find you morally abhorrent...."
> 
> This wasn't at me, of course. I never made it known before that I consider myself socially progressive, and fiscally republican. A distinction that is very blurred these days since all the financial issues come down to some kind of social responsibility. I'm teach a man to fish, not give them a fish. Though, I will say, with the automation of jobs, that universal income isn't looking like such a bad idea...except...at what point will I have the opportunity to change my status in life? (sorry rant).
> 
> ...


As someone who comes from a left-wing background, I would normally be upset about what you said, but I think I agree with a lot of what you say.

I would say the main problem is with the rising polarization and the complete lack of flexibility and open-mindedness that affect the political life, to the point that I decided to stay away from politics.

For me, it could have something to do with extremely high levels of conscientiousness that politicians and political activists are expected to have, which could explain that Judgers seem to be overrepresented among politicians (because I could barely find any Perceiver among them). Conscientiousness is associated with work ethic and sense of duty, but is also negatively correlated with flexibility and free play. At the extreme, conscientiousness may also be associated with workaholism, tunnel vision, and authoritarian attitudes.

Conscientiousness is also negatively correlated with creativity, which could explain that a lot of artists like myself would have relatively low levels of conscientiousness. Regarding myself, I am typed as a RLUAI in the Big 5 test with low extroversion, high neuroticism, low conscientiousness, average agreeableness, and high openness.

Perhaps what I said could open a debate about why the political life is so inflexible and narrow-minded.

Cordially, and have a good day!


----------



## Negotiator (Mar 15, 2018)

ImpossibleHunt said:


> For me, it’s criticism for purely “criticism’s sake” that annoys me.
> In two of the places I’ve worked (I’m 23 and so far I’ve worked three jobs), these positions typically have had high turnover rates. This essentially means that most people who get the job end up leaving shortly after. Mainly due to pre-conceived expectations not being met, workplace culture, managerial-style, etc. At least in my experience, I think it’s due to the managers not being able to be more precise in criticism. It can get pretty stressful for an employee.
> 
> It’s a bit difficult to gauge your overall performance if everything you do is seemingly bad, or what to primarily focus your efforts on improving if everything you do gets pointed out. I’m all for criticism, but praise in things you do well in can be just as useful in helping people hone in on certain aspects of their craft they can improve on. My first boss had this problem, and I went home everyday during the first few months convinced I did a terrible job. But she then regarded me after as the “one of the best employees she ever had” when I later used her as a reference. So that confused me a bit, and while I was grateful for the praise, it showed me that some people mean the opposite of what they say sometimes. Which is fine in regular context, but in a workplace enviornment (where you’re regularly measured on your peformance), that can be a bit of a problem.


I find it difficult to work with people who don't give constructive criticism, but rather tell you straight up "this or that is wrong ". Really surprises me then to later learn, oh that was just a minor issue, overall it's okay. Because if all I hear from you is negativity, then I'm gonna assume I'm the worst employee ever.


----------



## Ms. Aligned (Aug 26, 2021)

Miaristan said:


> As someone who comes from a left-wing background, I would normally be upset about what you said, but I think I agree with a lot of what you say.
> 
> I would say the main problem is with the rising polarization and the complete lack of flexibility and open-mindedness that affect the political life, to the point that I decided to stay away from politics.
> 
> ...


If you start it, I will post. Lol


----------

