# Ti vs Ni



## j3321 (Nov 19, 2009)

Which one is cooler in your opinion? Which one creates the most interesting thoughts? The most useful? For what kinds of situations? etc.

Just curious if anyone had thoughts I'm doing some research.

Oh also which one is faster? I knew an INTJ and he tended to be a much slower thinker than me. I wondered if Ti was faster in some ways.


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## MensSuperMateriam (Jun 2, 2010)

j3321 said:


> Which one is cooler in your opinion? Which one creates the most interesting thoughts? The most useful? For what kinds of situations? etc.
> 
> Just curious if anyone had thoughts I'm doing some research.
> 
> Oh also which one is faster? I knew an INTJ and he tended to be a much slower thinker than me. I wondered if Ti was faster in some ways.


I'm not sure if this question makes sense. Ni is an "idea generator" (perception) but Ti isn't; the "idea generator" in an INTP is Ne (perception), not Ti (judgement). Ti is a "filter", the language for expressing these ideas, if you want, ordering the "chaos" that is inherent to Ne.

Being an INTP a Ti dom, the ideas and conclusions are "more perfect, well constructed" than is statistically usual in an Ne dom ENTP (but the last has brainstorms in higher frequency, could be more "creative"). But both of them use the same source of ideas, Ne.

Cooler? Every user with high self-steem will usually think that their dom (or aux) function is better. But as every valoration is subjective, the answers will be always irrelevant.

Interesting thoughts? It depends. If you associate "interesting" to "creative, original", then the answer will be Ne. As happens always comparing extroverted and introverted functions, introverted are deeper (go further) but narrower whereas extroverted are shallower but broader. Ne will consider more possibilites at the same time, so the probability of offering an original, innovative solution is higher. 

But Ni has a property that I admire a lot, the capacity of changing the "meaning" of a item. Well, the lower capacity of an NTP for doing this is not the problem of Ne, but the associated Ti which uses temporally fixed concepts (while evaluating, later could change). As Ti uses fixed concepts, it is more difficult for an NTP change the meaning or the point of view of a concrete situation. Ni can find easier the positive in the negative, finding advantages in the apparent difficulties. This is a disadvantage of the TiNe pair.

TiNe has an advantage over NiTe: for evaluating (deciding if something is true) NiTe uses Te, which depends on the external world, whereas Ti has a "innate" capacity for seeing if something is true or not, or if there is something inconsistent in an apparent truth. For example, all of us see the Sun "orbiting" around the Earth; an external "proof" of what happens. Doubting about that "evidence" and adopting a heliocentric position *by a consistent reasoning* would be easier for a Ti user, despite of the "inmediate evidence", when the heliocentric theory emerged. Te is satisfied by the "apparent truth", whereas Ti seeks "the purest truth".

Finding logical inconsistencies, errors in a reasoning, Ni is worse than Ti (a case in which these functions can be compared). Ti is "programmed with the finest logic rules", whereas the capacity of change meanings could make Ni falling in a "made-to-measure" truth (could easier see things in the wanted way). 

About usefulness, it depends on the task. If you're playing chess, a Ni dom would probably be better because can think further in the game, Ni is superior in any strategization; making inventions Ne would be better, etc.

I don't think Ne is faster, neither Ni. Again, it depends. If you have a problem whose solution depends on creativeness, Ne would be faster. If the problem requieres a less innovation but "further in the same" way of thinking, the solution would be reached faster by Ni, whereas Ne is wasting time in irrelevant ideas, etc.


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## j3321 (Nov 19, 2009)

Man that was an epic post thank you. Um yeah it probably doesn't make sense. I'm just trying to figure out the functions. I guess Ti vs Te would have been better? So Ti dominant are the people who love pure mathematics and linguistics then eh? Interesting.

Okay let me ask another question that might be stupid. If the INTP has a very weak Se how can he Ne be any good? Man I never know what's going on in the real world; I live in my mind completely. Does an Ne actually apply to the external, physical world? I've always been confused about that. Probably another dumb question. I consider myself a smart person but I sometimes am so logical I am stunted. I think this is one of those times.


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## j3321 (Nov 19, 2009)

Man that was an epic post thank you. Um yeah it probably doesn't make sense. I'm just trying to figure out the functions. I guess Ti vs Te would have been better? So Ti dominant are the people who love pure mathematics and linguistics then eh? Interesting.

Okay let me ask another question that might be stupid. If the INTP has a very weak Se how can he Ne be any good? Man I never know what's going on in the real world; I live in my mind completely. Does an Ne actually apply to the external, physical world? I've always been confused about that. Probably another dumb question. I consider myself a smart person but I sometimes am so logical I am stunted. I think this is one of those times.


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## MensSuperMateriam (Jun 2, 2010)

j3321 said:


> Man that was an epic post thank you. Um yeah it probably doesn't make sense. I'm just trying to figure out the functions. I guess Ti vs Te would have been better? So Ti dominant are the people who love pure mathematics and linguistics then eh? Interesting.


Yes, as functions, it's better comparing Ni Vs Ne (perception) and/or Ti Vs Te (judgement). But the thinking process implies the use of a P and a J functions simultaneously, so if you want to compare the way two people or type think, the best is using the whole pair. In this case, TiNe vs NiTe.

Maths is very Ti-oriented, maybe the most Ti-oriented discipline. They're based in logic rules, they're complex, its proofs are "internal" (not based in the outside world), etc.

But this does not imply all Ti users are Maths geniouses or Te users are bad at it. Te users can also be very good at Maths, but usually thanks to be accompanied by Ni which can manage this discipline in his own way (example: Newton). Also, don't forget typology is not IQ measuring...

Similar answer for linguistics.



j3321 said:


> Okay let me ask another question that might be stupid. If the INTP has a very weak Se how can he Ne be any good? Man I never know what's going on in the real world; I live in my mind completely. Does an Ne actually apply to the external, physical world? I've always been confused about that. Probably another dumb question. I consider myself a smart person but I sometimes am so logical I am stunted. I think this is one of those times.


Ne is an extroverted function; its primary source of information in the external world. The "gross difference" between Se and Ne is that Se sees the outside world "as is", as an image with all its details, whereas Ne sees less details and don't perceive reality "as is". Ne breaks down the perceived item/idea in the smaller pieces (elemental concepts) it can and merges it in all combinations it's capable, generating the amazing world of possibilities (brainstorm, creativity, innovation). For Ne, the inmediate perception is less important than the possibilities, "what it is" is less important than "what it could be". All of these ideas are later judged by Ti (or Fi for its users).

You're disconnected from the outside world not because you use Ne instead Se but because your Ti is stronger than your Ne, so you are an INTP instead an ENTP. Our extroverted cousings have the same functions, they're the most similar to us without being us, and they are more outside world oriented. Our preference for Ti (which is an introverted function) makes our primary goal knowledge (the abstract idea) and its application is secondary, whereas in our cousings, with Ne preference, the primary goal is the application of these ideas and knowledge is secondary.

When I said "the source of information is external" does not mean that you can't analyze yourself or be oriented to yourself, only than the concepts are extracted form "the external world". Even when you analize yourself I'm sure most of times you think as if you're "outside yourself", a sort of third person self-analysis. Ni does not work in this way. 

If you have doubts about how some functions work, I recommend to you this thread:

http://personalitycafe.com/myers-br...iled-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html


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## Emerson (Mar 13, 2011)

Wow thanks man, thats been really helpful. It reminds me of when I used to do joint presentations with one of my friends who'se ENTP, he'd come up with an idea and then he'd leave it to me to extend it and make it more convincing, the same thing happens with my sister who is also ENTP, she'll have a great idea but she'll then decide that she doesn't want to use it because she's thought of a new way, when all the idea needs are a few tweeks and its good to go... Oh Ni how I love you so!


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

j3321 said:


> Which one is cooler in your opinion? Which one creates the most interesting thoughts? The most useful? For what kinds of situations? etc.
> 
> Just curious if anyone had thoughts I'm doing some research.
> 
> Oh also which one is faster? I knew an INTJ and he tended to be a much slower thinker than me. I wondered if Ti was faster in some ways.


Well naturally I'm partial to Ti since it's my dom  
Ni seems to make ideas which sound good but are often full of holes (of course it depends on who wields it), but it really makes me exercise my TiNe to explain what's wrong with it. 
Ni seems faster


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

Emerson said:


> Wow thanks man, thats been really helpful. It reminds me of when I used to do joint presentations with one of my friends who'se ENTP, he'd come up with an idea and then he'd leave it to me to extend it and make it more convincing, the same thing happens with my sister who is also ENTP, she'll have a great idea but she'll then decide that she doesn't want to use it because she's thought of a new way, when all the idea needs are a few tweeks and its good to go... Oh Ni how I love you so!


Fascinating. Thanks for the perspective. I have an INTJ friend who is probably tired of me generating new ideas when he's already seen how all of them could work. Its time for me to sit down and make the current one work the best way possible.


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