# Psycopaths, serialkillers and Enneagram



## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Do you think there is a particular eneagram type that tends to psychopath or serial kill the most? 
Are you sure its not the environment?
Why?


----------



## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

Hmm, let's see.

"pure-blooded" primary psychopaths can't experience anxiety or fear in any way, so 5, 6 and 7 can be crossed out.
They can seem image oriented, but they never care about being loved, validated, appreciated, recognized and etc, so 4, 3 and 2 can be crossed out as well.
Image is always crafted out of practical concerns, to get what they want with as minimal pain in the process as possible.

So, we are left with 8, 9 and 1.
Pths seek stimulation/intensity, because they don't have as much breaks as neurotypicals have in form of fear/anxiety/sadness/loneliness and many other negative emotions. "Lust" is the most fitting sin for them out of others.
They are always full energy, fiercely independent and practically nothing can break them mentally. Even though they lack affective empathy, they can be exceptionally loyal/protective of those who managed to earn their respect and trust (until it is betrayed)

Therefore, 8 is the type that matches best to their profile.

With sociopathy there is a much broader set of options, counterphobic 6 maybe?
With serial killing things get even less conclusive.


----------



## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Allostasis said:


> Hmm, let's see.
> 
> "pure-blooded" primary psychopaths can't experience anxiety or fear in any way, so 5, 6 and 7 can be crossed out.
> They can seem image oriented, but they never care about being loved, validated, appreciated, recognized and etc, so 4, 3 and 2 can be crossed out as well.
> ...


Would you classify this type as the stable and non-neurotic type of The Big Five?


----------



## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

Electra said:


> Would you classify this type as the stable and non-neurotic type of The Big Five?


Yes, Eights usually have low neuroticism, according to studies that I managed to see. I myself have very low neuroticism.


----------



## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Allostasis said:


> Yes, Eights usually have low neuroticism, according to studies that I managed to see. I myself have very low neuroticism.


Interesting. I once saw on a documentary that killers were often hot hearted while serial killers tended to be cool headed


----------



## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

Electra said:


> Interesting. I once saw on a documentary that killers were often hot hearted while serial killers tended to be cool headed


Yes, that's usually correct.


----------



## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Sexual Eight for Psychopath.
I would wager 358 or 378 being their Tritype.

Psychopaths can't be environmentally made, they are genetically born like that.
Serial killers however can be environmentally made.

Serial Killers are tricky because there isn't a pattern in who becomes one.
A not very conclusive method, but checking on PDB for the most famous Serial Killer public typings;


Jack the Ripper 8w7
Jeffrey Dahmer 5w4
Harold Shipman 5w6
John Wayne Gacy 3w2
H. H. Holmes 5w4
Pedro Lopez 4w5
Ted Bundy 3w2
Rodney Alcala 7w8
Elizabeth Bathory 8w9
Israel Keyes 6w5
Charles Manson 4w3
David Berkowitz 6w5
Dennis Rader 6w5
Zodiac Killer 7w8
Richard Ramirez 7w8
Richard Speck 8w7
Gary Ridgway 6w5
Jack Unterweger 8w7
Edmund Kemper 4w5

I think this list could go on and on, but you get the picture.
Seems like there's a consistency with 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8.
Hard to say if any of these public typings are accurate, they could be accurate or there could be some bias.
There's usually a bias with people typing villains as 8, because 8 is usually considered bad.


----------



## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Eset said:


> Sexual Eight for Psychopath.
> I would wager 358 or 378 being their Tritype.
> 
> Psychopaths can't be environmentally made, they are genetically born like that.
> ...


I'm impressed.


----------



## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

I read about a very kind serial killer who killed out of lonelyness because he couldn't take them leaving him. Maybe he was a type 2 serial killer


----------



## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Electra said:


> I read about a very kind serial killer who killed out of lonelyness because he couldn't take them leaving him. Maybe he was a type 2 serial killer


It could be Type 4 disintegration to 2.

Direction of Disintegration. 

Average Fours can become self absorbed and moody, distancing themselves from the important people in their lives. The stress that this causes for Fours, especially in their significant relationships, can cause them to take on the behaviors of average Twos. They seek to reassure themselves that they have not alienated others—that others will not abandon them despite their emotional storms. To this end, they people-please, try to find needs to fulfill, and call attention to the good things they have done for their loved ones. Unhealthy Fours despair of ever actualizing themselves; when they move to Two, it may well be as the result of an emotional breakdown. Since they can no longer function very well, in effect they coerce someone else to take care of them. They may live with their parents or with a friend, or become entirely dependent on a spouse, while presenting these people for not understanding them or caring for them adequately. Severe problems result, however, because deteriorated Fours hate themselves and may ruin even the relationships on which they have become dependent. They may allow themselves to become completely broken down as a way of eliciting care from others.

But then it could also be Type 2 disintegration to 8.

Direction of Disintegration. 

Average Twos have difficulty stating their needs directly, feeling that to do so would be selfish. They attempt to fulfill their needs by doing good things for others and hoping that others will care for them in return. When this strategy fails or when Twos fall into increased stress, however, they may suddenly assert themselves and their needs more forcefully, like average Eights. Twos may lose their tempers or let others know in unsubtle ways that they cannot be trifled with or taken for granted. Like Eights, they can become defiant and argumentative, and may make threats. Others can be surprised at the Two’s belligerence. Under extreme stress, Twos may also attempt to control others by creating dependencies. Unhealthy Twos can become resentful and enraged at the ungrateful treatment they feel they have received from others. Like unhealthy Eights, they may strike out at those who have not responded to them as they wanted. Extremely deteriorated Twos can become physically violent, even murderous, usually to those closest to them, the very people for whom they think they have had nothing but the kindest, most tender feelings.


----------



## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

It seems that it could be any type to me, under the right surcomstances. I remember a policeman who said the chances of committing crimes are allways 50/50% for anyone.


----------

