# Are the generation birthdates correct?



## Eric the Green

The dates given here are not universally accepted. They are given by demographers. But they don't necessarily reflect the common experiences of a generation, even though examples of these are appended to these demographic dates here. Books by Strauss and Howe have added much to our understanding of the generations, and how they play a prominent role in our history. They shape the times we live in, and the times shape the traits of the generations too. Strauss and Howe's book The Fourth Turning is the source of the name "Millennials," often used to describe Generation Y; for example, in a recent PBS Newshour report on political opinions among generations by Judy Woodruff.

The dates given here for Generation X are cut short, although many born before and after tend to identify with Generation X. In doing biographical and sociological research, the authors of Generations and The Fourth Turning decided that people who identify as Boomers were born 1943-1960, Generation X (which they also called "American's unlucky 13th Generation") 1961-1981, and Millennials 1982 until probably 2003.

Do you agree? Those of you born at dates that put you in one generation demographically (as listed here), do you think you identify more with the Strauss and Howe dates instead?

I can't post a link yet, but there is a website and discussion forum on The Fourth Turning which you can google, if you want more info. I also invited folks there to visit here.


----------



## Slider

So, I was born in 1977. 

Yeah, I suppose I'm slightly "unlucky." However, I have a great family and all of them have been very healthy for the vast majority of my life.

When you get older, you start to appreciate the time you're able to spend with family members. In that regard, I am very lucky.


----------



## lib

Considering that the writer of the novel "Generation X", Douglas Coupland, was describing his own generation and he was born in 1961, you are making a strong case with "1961-1981".
The novel " generation X" is not just a good novel. It's a great novel introducing so much new... ideas and vocabulary etc so if you haven't already read it: Read it!


----------



## Thalassa

Yeah I posted a thread about this recently in this section...I am an in-betweener depending on chart, and I am Gen Y if we follow technological attachments (which is what makes the earlier cut-off point, is the usage and memory of technology for those included in Gen Y rather than Gen X) or I am Gen X if you go by world political events (i.e. old enough to remember the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall).

Then there's even some side theory where they want to divide 76-86 into the MTV Generation, because of sharing these "in betweener" traits. 

Gen X isn't "unlucky" they're a Reactive and Nomadic Generation just like The Lost Generation (F.Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Henry Miller, et al) from the 1920's.

Reactive/Nomadic generations are feared by their parents, and it's funny because the Lost Generation was, with their new-fangled stuff in the 1920's. 

The "unlucky" thing was reflected in the horror movies surrounding children in the late 60's through the 1970's (Rosemary's Baby, The Exorcist, Carrie, Children of the Corn).

I don't think Generation X is unlucky at all and I think it's absurd to believe something like that because it just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.


----------



## Eric the Green

fourtines said:


> Yeah I posted a thread about this recently in this section...I am an in-betweener depending on chart, and I am Gen Y if we follow technological attachments (which is what makes the earlier cut-off point, is the usage and memory of technology for those included in Gen Y rather than Gen X) or I am Gen X if you go by world political events (i.e. old enough to remember the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall).
> 
> Then there's even some side theory where they want to divide 76-86 into the MTV Generation, because of sharing these "in betweener" traits.
> 
> Gen X isn't "unlucky" they're a Reactive and Nomadic Generation just like The Lost Generation (F.Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Henry Miller, et al) from the 1920's.
> 
> Reactive/Nomadic generations are feared by their parents, and it's funny because the Lost Generation was, with their new-fangled stuff in the 1920's.
> 
> The "unlucky" thing was reflected in the horror movies surrounding children in the late 60's through the 1970's (Rosemary's Baby, The Exorcist, Carrie, Children of the Corn).
> 
> I don't think Generation X is unlucky at all and I think it's absurd to believe something like that because it just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.


The "unlucky" part is not something to be taken too seriously; there's a lot more to Gen X than that. It's just part of why Strauss And Howe called them the "13th Generation," relating to the meaning of the number 13, but noone else calls them that. Strauss and Howe are the ones who pointed out that they are a Nomad/Reactive generation like the Lost. 

There are four repeating archetypes of generation in their theory: _civic heroes_ (e.g. Millennials (1982-c.2002), and GI or Greatest 1901-1924), _adaptive artists_ (e.g. Silent, 1925-1942), _idealist prophets_ (e.g. Boomers, 1943-1960), and _reactive nomads_ (e.g. Gen X, 1961-1981, Lost 1883-1900) (although I don't like the term "reactive" either).


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr

baby boomer start year is incorrect. post war baby boom started in 1946. The war was still going in 1943, and the GIs were off in Europe and Asia fighting, not at home with their wives reproducing. After the war, they produced many children.


----------



## Eric the Green

That's why its called the _demographic_ baby boom. But those of the generation who have common traits with each other, called prophet or idealist, began being born in 1943, according to the other theory. This group has the same name as the demographic, physical baby boom, but it starts and ends 3 years earlier.

The main reason for this is that only people about 2-5 years old or older can generally be influenced by the kind of events going on during their lives. The war ended in 1945, but those born by 1943 would have grown up with memories of the post war era only, while those born earlier would have had memories of growing up during the war, and thus are "adaptives," or people who were children during a great crisis.

The next great crisis has now begun (the fourth turning) as of 2008. Those born from about 2003 onward appear to have the adaptive traits, and will be known as Generation Z or some other appropriate name. Gen Y extends from 1982, to 2002 at least, and are also known as Millennials.


----------



## Thalassa

Eric the Green said:


> That's why its called the _demographic_ baby boom. But those of the generation who have common traits with each other, called prophet or idealist, began being born in 1943, according to the other theory. This group has the same name as the demographic, physical baby boom, but it starts and ends 3 years earlier.
> 
> The main reason for this is that only people about 2-5 years old or older can generally be influenced by the kind of events going on during their lives. The war ended in 1945, *but those born by 1943 would have grown up with memories of the post war era only*, while those born earlier would have had memories of growing up during the war, and thus are "adaptives," or people who were children during a great crisis.
> 
> The next great crisis has now begun (the fourth turning) as of 2008. Those born from about 2003 onward appear to have the adaptive traits, and will be known as Generation Z or some other appropriate name. Gen Y extends from 1982, to 2002 at least, and are also known as Millennials.


This. And world political view are also the reason why Gen X goes up to 1981 ...old enough to remember fall of Berlin Wall and collapse of Soviet Communism. 

I think the perspective taken in the book you read is "global political perspective." And yes, some of us have that. 

But there are other markers, as @walking tourist so correctly pointed out, that in terms of physical reality, the "baby boom" really didn't start until those GIs came home...and people born roughly between 1977-1982 share some of the same attachments to technology (teh Internet, cell phones, texting, et al) as Gen Y, while their Gen X counterparts may be more freaked out by it. I know a guy who falls cleanly in Gen X...and he's only five years older than me VERY SMART, VERY COMPUTER ORIENTED, VERY EDUCATED (INTP even) but he has problems with those "capcha" problems, and made a post in his blog one day that the next generation would have minds oriented to them..well my mind is easily oriented to them, and I text/type like a fiend. 

So it really depends on your perspective, and what yard stick you use. 

These dates aren't going to be exact because realistically human beings simply don't work that way.


----------



## Thalassa

Eric the Green said:


> _reactive nomads_ (e.g. Gen X, 1961-1981, Lost 1883-1900) (although I don't like the term "reactive" either).


I'll tell you why I think reactive is appropos though....because The Lost Generation destroyed every last shred of Victorian convention. Sexual lines blurred...homosexuality came out in the open, girls cut their hair short as a very trendy thing to do, and women started smoking cigarettes, drinking alcohol in public (instead of daintily at home or at dinner parties), and being more sexually aggressive with men. The corset disappeared and skirts were just as short as our "miniskirts" today....what is funny is that the 20's/30's are a lot more like NOW than the 40's/50s/early 60s were..there was this weird reactionary conservative thing that hearkened back to the Victorians mid-20th-century (which is part of the reason why I LOVE LOVE LOVE the 20's and 30s) even film during the 20's and 30's was more explicit and daring. The Greatest Generation and especially The Silent Generation (or Sentimental Generation) were responsible for this "Victorian" conformist throw-back crap that has permanently stained Americana. 

I consider the 1920's and 1930's to be the "real America" where as many conservatives think of it being the 40's/50's and 60's. LOL.

I guess same with Gen X, they were very reactive against conformity, capitalism, everything that the Boomers had build up for them, they wanted to mock and tear down and go back to some kind of sarcastic intellectual/romanticism.


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr

Good point, @fourtnines, capitalism and conformity are bad ideas. Capitalism doesn't work because of the large corporations subverting it, making themselves into private empires with no accountability to anyone. Conformity is always a bad idea. A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle is a good commentary on conformity and on the frustration on being "different." It was my favorite book when I was a teenager. I don't know if it was only the baby boomers, though, who promoted those concepts. I think that this was a long-term, ongoing process that still continues.


----------



## zenity

Eric the Green said:


> I can't post a link yet, but there is a website and discussion forum on The Fourth Turning which you can google, if you want more info. I also invited folks there to visit here.


Eric, thanks very much for gracing the forums! I've lurked the fourth turning forum for over a year now and I've long been interested in the interplay between Jungian cognitive functions / MBTI and generational theory. Your contributions there are very appreciated.

The generations forums don't get nearly as much traffic as the Keirsey / MBTI / CF subforums. Most people posting in these forums aren't particularly aware of generational theory and use it as a space to discuss issues relevant to their age peers. I'd love to see this forum also used to discuss theory. Any chance you'd be interested in writing a few more posts offering a grounding in generational theory geared towards people interested in personality theory to help get discussion started?


----------



## Impavida

*Do you agree? Those of you born at dates that put you in one generation demographically (as listed here), do you think you identify more with the Strauss and Howe dates instead?*

I was born in 1980 and have always wondered which generation I fit into. I don't feel like I really belong to either Gen X or the Millenials, however, Gen X "feels" like a better fit for me. The description of Gen X as being "nomadic" definitely resonates with me, while "reactive" definitely does not. Growing up, I remember being the first kid in the school that had a computer at home, and, while I'm very comfortable with technology, I'm also quite resistant to it as a matter of principle.

I suspect that the feeling of not belonging to either generation is quite common for those who are born on the cusp. If one wanted to, they could probably describe a completely new generation born in the 1975-1985 window. In my experience, people born in this time frame don't readily fit into either Gen X or the Millenials. We're too young to remember the Cold War, but we're old enough to remember the Berlin wall coming down. We're too old for the obsession with social networking, but we're too young to have been hurt when the dot-com bubble burst.

It's an interesting discussion though.


----------



## Thalassa

jayde said:


> We're too old for the obsession with social networking


Speak for yourself, INTJ! 

I think the interesting thing about being an in-betweener is the variation ...like some people around my age paid no attention to the collapse of the Soviet Union (likely due to family interest in world politics or something, and I acknowledge the same trait in my oldest nephew who is Gen Z living within the same family, including having his great-grandfather's influence in the home just as I had my grandfather's influence strongly growing up) ....and some people around my age seem less inclined to social networking or other aspects Gen Y than myself. I have friends I went to high school with, for example, who I think still relate to Gen X more while I relate to Gen Y more in some regards.


----------



## natarichan

I was born in the last days of 86, so it's almost like 87 and I feel that there is a big difference in the way I think and people born in early 80s think. I do have friends older than me, and I really have a great time with them, the oldest being born in 78. But still I feel that I can relate more with people born between '86-'92. I've got lots of friends born in the late 80s and the early '90s. '77-'94 are good dates to define Gen Y cause I've seen many same traits in people born between those years, but I still believe there should be a distinction between the earlier and late years.


----------



## GenXer

This is my opinion:

Boomers - 1946 to 1964. Why? WW2 ended in 1945. The GI's wanted kids and raised them from 1946 to 1964 when the GI's/Silents slowed down in having kids. See birth charts.

Xers - 1965 to 1979..Maybe 1981. Why? birthrates began to go down starting in 1965 and didn't trend up until the late 70s. 1973 was the lowest birthrates in modern American times. Our parents were the early Boomers to Silent/GI Generations. Xers are also known as the "Baby Bust" generation. For obvious reasons.

Millennials - 1980-1981 to 1994..Maybe 1995. You guys are predominantly the Boomer kids. Take that as a compliment or an insult lol.

Zers - When Windows 95 came out to now. Th internet kids. My kids generation ;-)


----------



## marked174

Yeah. I think these dates are wrong. It is my belief that generations are not determined by a set number (ex. every 20 years on the nose) or even by trends in media, culture, or technology. I think the turning point takes place during a defining moment in a group's history. A good way of determining what generation you are in is by asking, "was I born before or after this event". With this in mind, it is possible for 2 people to be born the same year and be part of 2 generations. I believe an artist generation started in 1861 with the hanging of John Brown and the starting tensions of the Civil War, a prophet gen in 1877's end of reconstruction, a nomad gen. (lost gen.) during the 1896 gold rush, G.I. gen after the Titanic in 1912, Silent gen. after Black Tuesday 1929, Baby Boomer after WWII ends in 1945, Gen X after the Kennedy assassination of 1963, Millennial gen. during 1981 (Reagan inaugurated, Reagen shot, IBM releases first PC), and the homelander gen. after 9/11. Big events seem to change things and create bookmarks in our history.


----------



## InTheBackground

I was born in 1961, and I definitely fit the X generation; Boomer has always felt entirely alien to me!


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr

I was born in 1956 and don't feel that I fit in either the boomer or the x generations.



InTheBackground said:


> I was born in 1961, and I definitely fit the X generation; Boomer has always felt entirely alien to me!


----------



## InTheBackground

walking tourist said:


> I was born in 1956 and don't feel that I fit in either the boomer or the x generations.


That is actually a much more accurate statement for me, as well. And I completely forgot about Generation Jones.


----------



## Mind Swirl

jayde said:


> I suspect that the feeling of not belonging to either generation is quite common for those who are born on the cusp. If one wanted to, they could probably describe a completely new generation born in the 1975-1985 window. In my experience, people born in this time frame don't readily fit into either Gen X or the Millenials. We're too young to remember the Cold War, but we're old enough to remember the Berlin wall coming down. We're too old for the obsession with social networking, but we're too young to have been hurt when the dot-com bubble burst.


I fit into the "cusp" and I agree with the sentiment we're really in between. 
Descriptions for gen-x don't fit me. Descriptions for gen-y seem like they are describing someone younger. 

I have a funny analogy of the generations through musical devices:
*GenX:* Walkman
*Inbetween:* Discman
*GenY:* iPod

We are the discman generation, the weird in-betweeners which are digital, but also exist in hard-copy form. Later generations are fully digitized. :tongue:


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr

With the older generations, you have the:
reel to reel tape generation
the eight track tape generation (but no one will admit to belonging to this generation because eight track tapes were notoriously given to inconvenient breakage)
Of course, there are the earlier generations for vinyl recordings, including the 78 and the 33-1/3 (LP) records. That's were you get the concept of repeating like a broken record from. The LPs tended to skip or play the same thing over and over if they got warped (which was a frequent occurrence). The sound quality was somewhat less than awesome so I also don't know if anyone would admit to being part of the Broken Record Generation!:mellow:


----------



## rwt81

Eric the Green said:


> The dates given here are not universally accepted. They are given by demographers. But they don't necessarily reflect the common experiences of a generation, even though examples of these are appended to these demographic dates here. Books by Strauss and Howe have added much to our understanding of the generations, and how they play a prominent role in our history. They shape the times we live in, and the times shape the traits of the generations too. Strauss and Howe's book The Fourth Turning is the source of the name "Millennials," often used to describe Generation Y; for example, in a recent PBS Newshour report on political opinions among generations by Judy Woodruff.
> 
> The dates given here for Generation X are cut short, although many born before and after tend to identify with Generation X. In doing biographical and sociological research, the authors of Generations and The Fourth Turning decided that people who identify as Boomers were born 1943-1960, Generation X (which they also called "American's unlucky 13th Generation") 1961-1981, and Millennials 1982 until probably 2003.
> 
> Do you agree? Those of you born at dates that put you in one generation demographically (as listed here), do you think you identify more with the Strauss and Howe dates instead?
> 
> I can't post a link yet, but there is a website and discussion forum on The Fourth Turning which you can google, if you want more info. I also invited folks there to visit here.


 Hey Eric! It's MillieX! Didn't know you were on here.


----------



## sleepyhead

Eric the Green said:


> The dates given here are not universally accepted. They are given by demographers. But they don't necessarily reflect the common experiences of a generation, even though examples of these are appended to these demographic dates here.
> 
> The dates given here for Generation X are cut short, although many born before and after tend to identify with Generation X. In doing biographical and sociological research, the authors of Generations and The Fourth Turning decided that people who identify as Boomers were born 1943-1960, Generation X (which they also called "American's unlucky 13th Generation") 1961-1981, and Millennials 1982 until probably 2003.
> 
> *Do you agree? Those of you born at dates that put you in one generation demographically (as listed here), do you think you identify more with the Strauss and Howe dates instead?*


I haven't particpated in much of The Generations discussions because I feel my personal experience borders Gen x and Gen y, which is odd because I'm born in 1985. I didn't have a computer till I was 14, no internet till I was 16 (which is still young, but not young enough to feel like I grew up with it), I'm not big into social networking, I didn't get a cell phone until I was 22, and I grew up with a lot of influence from my 1982 brother, who I see more as coming from the grunge, long hair, baggy pants, flannel shirts, old band t-shirts generation than the Gen X. And I've always been observant and had a far-reaching memory so while I don't have a good grasp of memories of the Berlin Wall coming down, I do remember the news stories and other significant happenings of the early 90's but I didn't have a concept of how big and encompassing they were at the time.



jayde said:


> I was born in 1980 and have always wondered which generation I fit into. I don't feel like I really belong to either Gen X or the Millenials, however, Gen X "feels" like a better fit for me. The description of Gen X as being "nomadic" definitely resonates with me, while "reactive" definitely does not. Growing up, I remember being the first kid in the school that had a computer at home, and, while I'm very comfortable with technology, I'm also quite resistant to it as a matter of principle.
> 
> I suspect that the feeling of not belonging to either generation is quite common for those who are born on the cusp. If one wanted to, they could probably describe a completely new generation born in the 1975-1985 window. In my experience, people born in this time frame don't readily fit into either Gen X or the Millenials. We're too young to remember the Cold War, but we're old enough to remember the Berlin wall coming down. We're too old for the obsession with social networking, but we're too young to have been hurt when the dot-com bubble burst.


I agree with the 1975-1985 window. My partner is born in 1986 and a year behind me in school age, and often his childhood memories and experiences are a lot closer to my younger brother, born in 1989 than the memories and experiences of my 1982 brother and myself.

Obviously in technicalities I would be part of Gen Y but it seems like a lot of Gen Y theory really centers are technology and it's not something I relate to or am very interested in. Even though a lot of the parts of Gen X are not very applicable, I find myself relating a lot more to the topics posted in the Gen X forum than the Gen Y. I feel like I know the music, movies, and news of Gen X a lot more intimately. Again, I think this had a lot to do with my brothers influence.


----------



## au contraire

InTheBackground said:


> I was born in 1961, and I definitely fit the X generation; Boomer has always felt entirely alien to me!



Same here. While I clearly have some affinities with BB's (primarily because I like 60's music), I identify much more with Xers, and I was in my twenties during the growth of grunge when I lived near Seattle in the 80's. Being the youngest I do not in any way feel part of my older sibling's generation. I certainly have little in common with someone born in 46, compared with someone born in 66. I think BB ended in 59, personally. But I'm not a big fan of the whole generation concept. It sounds like something an SJ came up with, needing to keep people stuffed into tidy little boxes with labels when they don't fit-I see no need for it, and don't find it that useful to describe my world. I think saying "someone born in the 50's" or "someone born in the 70's" says far more than "Baby Boomer" or "Generation X" ever will.


----------



## LimeDegree

The Generation Y label I have permanently fixed to me is, up to this point, my only negative experience with this site. I spent a lot of time trying to hunt down a solution, but it's pretty clear that, short of deleting my account and rejoining with a false birth year, I won't be able to take this label off. In the long run, I suppose it doesn't matter, because a simple conversation is enough to get to the heart of the matter. Nevertheless, I am surprised that someone up the ladder (not necessarily on this site, but wherever those generation charts come from) is so close-minded about this one particular facet. It almost feels like some sort of experiment to check our responses.


----------



## [email protected]

I was born in 1962, and I don't consider myself a baby boomer, as many slate me, or a Gen X'er. I've actually called us the "Tweeners" between these two. In many instances I actually had more in common with my father's generation (born in 1928) than I did with my brothers and their friends. We tend to be more traditional than the boomers and the x'ers. In fact, I always considered the X'ers the kids of the boomers. 

I can remember being at college as a junior and seeing a huge shift in the type of freshman that were coming in. They were much more progressive than my classmates, and even preferred smoking pot over drinking, like we were more accustomed.


----------



## Persephone

Eric the Green said:


> The dates given here are not universally accepted. They are given by demographers. But they don't necessarily reflect the common experiences of a generation, even though examples of these are appended to these demographic dates here. Books by Strauss and Howe have added much to our understanding of the generations, and how they play a prominent role in our history. They shape the times we live in, and the times shape the traits of the generations too. Strauss and Howe's book The Fourth Turning is the source of the name "Millennials," often used to describe Generation Y; for example, in a recent PBS Newshour report on political opinions among generations by Judy Woodruff.
> 
> The dates given here for Generation X are cut short, although many born before and after tend to identify with Generation X. In doing biographical and sociological research, the authors of Generations and The Fourth Turning decided that people who identify as Boomers were born 1943-1960, Generation X (which they also called "American's unlucky 13th Generation") 1961-1981, and Millennials 1982 until probably 2003.
> 
> Do you agree? Those of you born at dates that put you in one generation demographically (as listed here), do you think you identify more with the Strauss and Howe dates instead?
> 
> I can't post a link yet, but there is a website and discussion forum on The Fourth Turning which you can google, if you want more info. I also invited folks there to visit here.


I definitely identify more with Generation Z (purported to be 1995-2012) more than Gen Y, because people born in the 80's just weren't a part of growing up with the internet, but I also feel like I'm in between Y and Z, because I can still remember analog cameras, gigantic cellphones with antennae and the days the internet didn't look half as sleek and was still very clunky.


----------



## Glenda Gnome Starr

I agree with this. Let's get rid of those tidy little boxes. I know that I do not fit neatly into a "baby boomer" box and I am too old to climb into that GenX box. Besides, I'm claustrophobic. Also, I'm an SP ( I deny that SP is boxy). 
No boxes!
We are freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!




au contraire said:


> Same here. While I clearly have some affinities with BB's (primarily because I like 60's music), I identify much more with Xers, and I was in my twenties during the growth of grunge when I lived near Seattle in the 80's. Being the youngest I do not in any way feel part of my older sibling's generation. I certainly have little in common with someone born in 46, compared with someone born in 66. I think BB ended in 59, personally. But I'm not a big fan of the whole generation concept. It sounds like something an SJ came up with, needing to keep people stuffed into tidy little boxes with labels when they don't fit-I see no need for it, and don't find it that useful to describe my world. I think saying "someone born in the 50's" or "someone born in the 70's" says far more than "Baby Boomer" or "Generation X" ever will.


----------

