# How I am feeling about Fe-Ti vs Te-Fi



## simulatedworld (Jun 15, 2010)

thehigher said:


> INFP's have Te. As for the idea that "there is no kind of agreement about what order the functions go".... yes says theory.... I think the four letter agreement really does apply though. Since I am not a T it's hard for me to explain why I think this. But I have used this system in many different ways, circumstances, and on different people and I have found that I can certainly use the aux and inferior functions to help type someone.
> 
> For example: Take INTP's. I have consistently typed 4 INTP's based on their inferior function shadow meaning the ESFJ. Whenever I see a girl who looks like they are using Fe but they are doing it without much context and often go back to INTP mode (or entp mode) for a second I know they are INTP. I have never seen an INTP that I have seen have Te although they may claim to. i have these feelings associated with each function that I can generally and usually sense when I see it.
> 
> ...


this is a really smart post




unleashthehounds said:


> Can you give an example of what you meant by the bolded part?
> 
> I've been trying to type a certain woman, but she is confusing me. I think I see a strong Fe, I think I possibly see strong Ne, but I also think she's a dominant feeler. So she can't be strong in both.


She could be an ESFJ with well-developed tertiary Ne.


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## NeedsNewNameNow (Dec 1, 2009)

simulatedworld said:


> She could be an ESFJ with well-developed tertiary Ne.


I just saw her today. I'd almost bet money that she is a P.

The reason I suspected strong Ne is due to being kinda hyper and rapidly switching from topic to topic, yet she doesn't really seem like an intuitive. The hyperactivity might be due to something else.

I suspected strong Fe because she seems to go into 'hostess' mode and just seem to express alot of feeling and concern towards others, but that may be a misreading of Fe. If I think of it in terms of whether values are introverted or extroverted, then I have no idea.

Maybe she's ESFP or ISFP, those are my best guesses at the moment. But that might change too.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

What I like about having Fi is that you know what you want and where you stand. Whereas with Fe you run around trying to please everybody and repress your own feelings for what you see is greater benefit. Which might not be the benefit at all. 

But because people project what they feel of themselves onto others - we go around thinking that others must have same mental state as us - Fi-bearers assign a lot of value to themselves but they also assign same high value to others. They might appear to be selfish when they are unwilling to compromise on their values, but they also seem to respect that ability in others. To them other people seem unique and special individuals, just like they inside feel that they are unique and special person. Where as Fe instead starts thinking people are shallow and selfish for not conforming to greater good of things. Like Te bearers can think of people as a mindless herd, Fe bearers can feel that society overall is shallow.



stefairy said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about. :crazy: xNTPs use Fe all the time, and it's so cute.


That's not Fe. That's Ne.
Ne/Ni can mast functions of Fe - you expect people to act according to certain patterns that your Ni has observed and so your Ne can tell you how you should act next. It is much colder function than feeling one. Intuition yields empathy, but no warmth of feeling.



unleashthehounds said:


> Wow, that is so true! I have to find my own way of making logical sense of things. Consensus seems like misguided group-think to me if I haven't bought their argument. I never really thought of that as selfish. On the flip side, how many scientific advances have been made because someone didn't go along with the consensus, and found something everyone else missed?


Yeah it is situation dependent. This is why I never felt one function is superior to have than another. Having your personal way of thinking about things, being an independent non-conformist thinker, sometimes is great. I think Einstein was typed as INTP. But it is only great if your own logic isn't horribly flawed. And it can become flawed if Ti bearers have very underdeveloped Te. So then Ti goes around trying to change gravitational constant or doing alike silly things.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

> That's not Fe. That's Ne.
> Ne/Ni can mast functions of Fe - you expect people to act according to certain patterns that your Ni has observed and so your Ne can tell you how you should act next. It is much colder function than feeling one. Intuition yields empathy, but no warmth of feeling.



I actually disagree. As I was pointing out earlier many (especially female) NTP's use Fe a lot. .... you can look back in there somewhere. I had a wee bit of an explanation. Yes they have Ne but they also have Fe. 

INTP=Ti Ne Si Fe 
ENTP=Ne Ti Fe Si


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

thehigher said:


> I actually disagree. As I was pointing out earlier many (especially female) NTP's use Fe a lot. .... you can look back in there somewhere. I had a wee bit of an explanation. Yes they have Ne but they also have Fe.
> 
> INTP=Ti Ne Si Fe
> ENTP=Ne Ti Fe Si


They give you this impression because they are using Fe to back up their Ne so it gives them this smooth feeling in interaction, not this edgy jumpy feeling you can get from ESTPs whose Fe is backing up their Se. But as I have pointed out before, Fe gives you a sense of what values you should assign to other human beings according to the outside social norms and perceived give-and-take in relationships. This value does not get translated onto others from the inside like with Fi and this is why while the interaction is pleasant you still can sense that it is somewhat cold at the core.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

vel said:


> They give you this impression because they are using Fe to back up their Ne so it gives them this smooth feeling in interaction, not this edgy jumpy feeling you can get from ESTPs whose Fe is backing up their Se. But as I have pointed out before, Fe gives you a sense of what values you should assign to other human beings according to the outside social norms. This value does not get translated onto others from the inside like with Fi and this is why while the interaction is pleasant you still can sense that it is somewhat cold at the core.


I get the sense we have hacked our way through two different parts of the same forest and so we are using similar lingo for different things. Kinda like in philosophy club where everyone starts arguing and then realizes its merely because no one bothered to state the definitions.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Here's how I'm thinking about the T-f and F-t combinations:

Te-fi is the mark of a dictator and a radical. The Te demands action while the Fi holds them to an inner standard and a strong set of beliefs. The Te executes the tasks at hand and the fi, when used in a twisted way, puts a domineering, egocentric spin on the acts.

Ti-fe is the mark of a counselor. They are, above all, logical; they find the problem and work it out, and then employ Fe to relate to the other person and tailor their solution to the emotional state. The Ti will use its logic to work out a problem with mechanical efficiency. The Fe then will grasp what's going on at an emotional level and temper the Ti logic to make the solution humane and the best possible for all involved.

Fe-ti is the mark of a Spiritualist. The Fe makes them feel with other people and grasp the emotions and passions around them. The Ti attempts to rationalize these and put them into words, ideas, and systems, such as a religion. The Fe will understand the feelings of the experience, and will then use the subordinate Ti to categorize and order them iinto a coherent system.

Fi-te is the mark of crusader. The Fi is a strong set of internal, involable rules which they hold as their highest authority. Their Te is for getting things done. When their Fi detects something that it cannot accept, it harnesses the secondary Te to do something about it.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> Here's how I'm thinking about the T-f and F-t combinations:
> 
> Te-fi is the mark of a dictator and a radical. The Te demands action while the Fi holds them to an inner standard and a strong set of beliefs. The Te executes the tasks at hand and the fi, when used in a twisted way, puts a domineering, egocentric spin on the acts.
> 
> ...



So you are similar in a way. It seems as if Both Fi Te and Te Fi combinations are somewhat/relatively negative in your descriptions. Is this correct or am I making this up?


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

thehigher said:


> I get the sense we have hacked our way through two different parts of the same forest and so we are using similar lingo for different things. Kinda like in philosophy club where everyone starts arguing and then realizes its merely because no one bothered to state the definitions.


Which parts do you sense that we have different definitions about?

All in all it has always been my perception that Fi is warmer and more accepting than Fe on individual scale. On scale of groups and society in general yes Fe appears to be warmer because it subjugates your inner emotions to well-being of the group and society of the whole. It might be just my biased INFJ experience that I seem to love groups as an entity more than the individuals that comprise them. And xNTPs who have Fe as their 3rd (usually called defense) and 4th (usually labeled as inferior) functions I expect to have similar urges to subdue personal desires and please, but a whole lot less.


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

thehigher said:


> So you are similar in a way. It seems as if Both Fi Te and Te Fi combinations are somewhat/relatively negative in your descriptions. Is this correct or am I making this up?


You're not make it up. I think of Te and Fi to be good things to have, but to have both of them strongly is a real danger. Te only cares about aciton. Fi only cares about itself. When you put the two things together, you end up with an egocentric asshole who runs off and does whatever they perceive as right without any thought to the consequences.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> You're not make it up. I think of Te and Fi to be good things to have, but to have both of them strongly is a real danger. Te only cares about aciton. Fi only cares about itself. When you put the two things together, you end up with an egocentric asshole who runs off and does whatever they perceive as right without any thought to the consequences.


... k i have to disagree. I REALLY do care about other people. I just don't really know how to express it as well as Fe does....


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> You're not make it up. I think of Te and Fi to be good things to have, but to have both of them strongly is a real danger. Te only cares about aciton. Fi only cares about itself. When you put the two things together, you end up with an egocentric asshole who runs off and does whatever they perceive as right without any thought to the consequences.


hmm I would not say action, but rather logical order outside - so those who behave illogically are judged negatively same as Fe judges negatively those who disturb social harmony


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## Linesky (Dec 10, 2008)

thehigher said:


> ... k i have to disagree. I REALLY do care about other people. I just don't really know how to express it as well as Fe does....


I concur.

[Fe is simply another mind "strategy" of dealing with it. Yes it may come across more effective/direct than if you keep people related emotions to yourself but Fi users can still be capable of expressing their care in different ways... Fi users can def. be kind, concerned,...]


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

thehigher said:


> ... k i have to disagree. I REALLY do care about other people. I just don't really know how to express it as well as Fe does....


alright I'm gonna have to disagree with myself. that was only your opinion.


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## RafaelEnvoy (Apr 25, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> [...] Ti is more likely to force its own logic on the external, whereas Te is just pointing out that which exists outside of the person.


Why is Ti "forcing" and Te "pointing"? Your description doesn't provide any explanation as to why that is more likely at all. If anything, Ti wouldn't be forcing anything which isn't into it's introverted realm. I also notice that although you tried to analyse the functions separately, all your arguments confuse them with perception.


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## Linesky (Dec 10, 2008)

thehigher said:


> alright I'm gonna have to disagree with myself. that was only your opinion.


Awesome.

Ok I like this.

Maybe it's correct to say all types express their development and care in different ways. But that care is a fundamental thing to our being. As without that there wouldn't be a motivation to do things.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

RafaelEnvoy said:


> Why is Ti "forcing" and Te "pointing"? Your description doesn't provide any explanation as to why that is more likely at all. If anything, Ti wouldn't be forcing anything which isn't into it's introverted realm. I also notice that although you tried to analyse the functions separately, all your arguments confuse them with perception.


I didn't provide any explanation and I was not seriously attempting to analyze the functions in the post because that was _not the point of the post by a long shot_. Don't quote me out of context to twist my words to suit your own designs. Typical NT approach though - nitpick something unrelated to the point of the post :crazy:.

I disagree with _your intrepretation_ of my post anyhow, as it's _entirely wrong_, but because of your rude approach you will not be granted any further clarification of what I meant. I'm sick of NTs thinking they're owed explanations, as if they are the sole arbiter of what is correct in the world.


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## simulatedworld (Jun 15, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> I didn't provide any explanation and I was not seriously attempting to analyze the functions in the post because that was _not the point of the post by a long shot_. Don't quote me out of context to twist my words to suit your own designs. Typical NT approach though - nitpick something unrelated to the point of the post :crazy:.
> 
> I disagree with _your intrepretation_ of my post anyhow, as it's _entirely wrong_, but because of your rude approach you will not be granted any further clarification of what I meant. I'm sick of NTs thinking they're owed explanations, as if they are the sole arbiter of what is correct in the world.


Don't worry; we're equally sick of NFs providing shoddy reasoning and then getting pissy when questioned on it.

Usually when you don't grasp the importance of a particular point, being corrected on it comes off as "nitpicking." The problem, of course, is simply your failure to grasp the significance of that point, not that the point itself is trivial.

And by the way, all four J functions have a tendency to force their views on others. Te doesn't "just observe" at all; it enforces the collective consensus the same way Ti tries to push its personal idea of logic on others. The only difference is where the standard comes from; Te is absolutely _not_ less likely to push its concept of logic on others than Ti.


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## RafaelEnvoy (Apr 25, 2010)

OrangeAppled said:


> I didn't provide any explanation and I was not seriously attempting to analyze the functions in the post because that was _not the point of the post by a long shot_. Don't quote me out of context to twist my words to suit your own designs. Typical NT approach though - nitpick something unrelated to the point of the post :crazy:.
> 
> I disagree with _your intrepretation_ of my post anyhow, as it's _entirely wrong_, but because of your rude approach you will not be granted any further clarification of what I meant. I'm sick of NTs thinking they're owed explanations, as if they are the sole arbiter of what is correct in the world.


You should be thankful I chose only to comment on one statement you made instead of debunking your whole post. _If_ you want to be taken seriously, I expect at least that you make a single coherent argument; not just assert anything you like. I merely asked you your justification to make that claim and provided my objections. I got my answer: you didn't have one. I'm satisfied.

Blame stereotypes if that makes you feel good. If you really didn't wanted to respond, you wouldn't.


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## stefairy (Dec 2, 2009)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> You're not make it up. I think of Te and Fi to be good things to have, but to have both of them strongly is a real danger. Te only cares about aciton. Fi only cares about itself. When you put the two things together, you end up with an egocentric asshole who runs off and does whatever they perceive as right without any thought to the consequences.


Fi isn't inherently selfish. You'll notice that most strong Fi types care a lot about other people. Yeah, Fi is about personal morals, but most people who strongly value morals and doing the right thing are actually pretty kind to others. Fi *can* be selfish under certain conditions, but usually we care too much about being fair and not hurting others to let it go too far.

Te doesn't only care about action either. Te just values usefulness and practicality over thoroughness and correctness. It's still a logical function.



unleashthehounds said:


> I suspected strong Fe because she seems to go into 'hostess' mode and just seem to express alot of feeling and concern towards others, but that may be a misreading of Fe. If I think of it in terms of whether values are introverted or extroverted, then I have no idea.
> 
> Maybe she's ESFP or ISFP, those are my best guesses at the moment. But that might change too.


If it helps, most Fi I've known are pretty big on being good hosts, and they definitely have a lot of concern for others. The visible difference I've noticed is that Fe is more "mothering" and affectionate, whereas Fi is just overly nice and a little more detached.

My ENFP friend and I love to complain to each other about things like rude guests, since we both have the personal value that people should have good manners. Fe gets that value from the outside world - you need to have good manners because it's the socially correct thing to do. Fi might develop good manners because it internally understands why something like putting your own dishes away is nice to the host.


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## simulatedworld (Jun 15, 2010)

RafaelEnvoy said:


> You should be thankful I chose only to comment on one statement you made instead of debunking your whole post. _If_ you want to be taken seriously, I expect at least that you make a single coherent argument; not just assert anything you like. I merely asked you your justification to make that claim and provided my objections. I got my answer: you didn't have one. I'm satisfied.
> 
> Blame stereotypes if that makes you feel good. If you really didn't wanted to respond, you wouldn't.


She doesn't seem to have any intention of being taken seriously. I've followed her posts on typologycentral for well over a year and they tend to consist of {snippy whining + taking shit personally - any legitimate understanding of function theory}.

I just wouldn't bother if I were you.


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## Ubuntu (Jun 17, 2011)

I keep hearing that extroverted feeling is associated with social conformity and that Fe users derive their sense of ethics from cultural norms. I would expect this of Si but not necessarily Fe, why do people claim this? As I understand it, Fe only seeks social harmony, reaffirms relationships and feels emotionally connected to others. Can't Fe justify adopting controversial values/principles that conflict with the socially accepted values and principles of the culture they live in?

I tested as an INFP but I think I'm an INFJ. What I consider to be ethical/unethical has little to nothing to do with what most people consider to be ethical/unethical. If I am an INFJ, Fe isn't my dominant function, maybe that's why.


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## kibou (Apr 22, 2010)

Fe is very much related to the human collective and concern for harmony in the external environment. You can use Fe to have a respectful relationship with planet earth, but you can also use it to enforce social norms through approval and disapproval. Fe is also used to express oneself charismatically in speeches through emotional emphasis and weight. Fe also makes us feel awkward for stepping out of line of OTHER people's Fe (whether conventional or unconventional). It has a pretty wide scope and definitely isn't limited to "conforming to social norms".


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## NeFiLia (Feb 27, 2015)

All functions have pros and cons, it really depends on how they are used, they can be used for the good or they can be used poorly as some have mentioned. If focus on the negative possibilities, that is what you will find, just shift your perspective to see the good in other and the good in yourself and you will find it more and more often


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