# Fears in the shame triad?



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Considering we all have fears, maybe some more or less motivated than others by it, what are four's fears?


----------



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

XD every type is fearless, type 6 fears everything! Buhahahaha!

^^ ok ok seriously. I don't know. I always thought type 4 feared criticism and rejection, ridicule. Not sure thou because I can't make the difference between type 4 and 6 apparently. But oh well it's still my heart fix so probably what I said.


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Anarchy said:


> XD every type is fearless, type 6 fears everything! Buhahahaha!
> 
> ^^ ok ok seriously. I don't know. I always thought type 4 feared criticism and rejection, ridicule. Not sure thou because I can't make the difference between type 4 and 6 apparently. But oh well it's still my heart fix so probably what I said.


Good point, that helps. I didn't think of it that way. I sometimes think I will be able to handle critism, but when it starts, even when they say, "have tough skin" it is like the most painful time in my whole life. I start to get combative and defend myself. That probably sounds pretty fourish huh? On the other hand in most of those moments if I had studied and been prepared, I wouldn't have gotten negative reviews. But actually, I must not care that much about being informed or I would have cared to study. Right?


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Actually, whether I am right or wrong, I will still think they are ruining my image and what they are saying might be true. Could that be a feeler problem though?


----------



## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

Cleo said:


> Actually, whether I am right or wrong, I will still think they are ruining my image and what they are saying might be true. Could that be a feeler problem though?


As a social 4w3, I can relate to what you said. Personally, I fear gossip tarnishing my reputation, public humiliation, being boring, and apathy. I think each type cares deeply some aspect of life and when it's in jeopardy, they fear losing it. I think all types experience fear but some types are more transparent than others. A type 8 or a type 7 probably do have fears even if they don't show it at all


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

silverlined said:


> As a social 4w3, I can relate to what you said. Personally, I fear gossip tarnishing my reputation, public humiliation, being boring, and apathy. I think each type cares deeply some aspect of life and when it's in jeopardy, they fear losing it. I think all types experience fear but some types are more transparent than others. A type 8 or a type 7 probably do have fears even if they don't show it at all


Interesting... I am asking because I am wondering if I mistyped myself. I am not completely understanding what apathy means. Are you saying you fear not showing emotion or somone else not showing you emotion? As far as boring goes, I don't care if I give someone an interesting conversation or be completely unique, so far as to wear crazy things or have crazy hair colors. I would rather try to fit in, but still be special. I would like to be extraordinarily beautiful but not just extraordinary in any way possible like I see Johnny Depp. I can get narcissistic and have the attitude of look at me, but not in such a bazaar way like Angelina Jolie. I would say as a teenager I definately did though.


----------



## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

My fears:
-Being abandoned
-Being rejected/harshly criticized
-Being disliked
-Not doing a good enough job at something
-Looking ugly (I have body dysmorphia and used to be anorexic)
-Not being accepted for myself


----------



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

unico said:


> My fears:
> -Being abandoned
> -Being rejected/harshly criticized
> -Being disliked
> ...


I have the same fears. Cheers. If that is you in your profile, then you look gr8! I have body dysmorphia as well. People tell me I look gr8, my head tells me something else. We just need to stop listening to those thoughts and accept the new ones .


----------



## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

Anarchy said:


> I have the same fears. Cheers. If that is you in your profile, then you look gr8! I have body dysmorphia as well. People tell me I look gr8, my head tells me something else. We just need to stop listening to those thoughts and accept the new ones .


The pictures in my profile are of me, yes


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

unico said:


> My fears:
> -Being abandoned
> -Being rejected/harshly criticized
> -Being disliked
> ...


Unico your beauty is above average, way above average.


----------



## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

Cleo said:


> Unico your beauty is above average, way above average.


Thank you so much, Cleo! I just see my flaws all the time and I obsess over my skin and weight


----------



## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

I forgot to add that I also have fears of being fat/ugly and body image issues, that used to be really bad but are sort of of better now. I can relate to a lot of what unico posted.


----------



## silverlined (Jul 8, 2009)

For apathy, I mainly mean experiencing apathy myself. (for me it's more I don't like feeling lukewarm about things and I feel really stuck when I experience apathy. I like feeling some kind of intensity or excitement, it's probably a 4 thing. I sometimes fear other people's apathy too, especially for my pet issues.

I can relate to what you are saying here as well. I'm not especially wild in how I dress, but I want a chance to shine and stand out. I do want people to notice me.
Cleo, I think type 4 is a good possibility. The vibe I get from you is that you are a social 4. Social 4s often both want to stand out/be unique and fit in at the same time.


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

unico said:


> Thank you so much, Cleo! I just see my flaws all the time and I obsess over my skin and weight


I think I look very masculine. I want to change my entire face no matter how many surgeries. I sometimes think I have a body image disorder too. It hurts me to think that no matter how much I change my appearance, I was still not born to be the way I want or will look. Michael Jackson was such an inspiration when I think of that. He made himself look so great, even though he went to such extremes to get rid of what he thought were defects. He was still a very desirable man. I would given him babies.


----------



## minerva83 (Jun 21, 2011)

4 here and count me in for the body dysmorphia as well. last year I made the decision that by the end of this year I'd overcome these debilitating body image issues as I know the issues are in my head really, not with my body. all the fears that Unico listed are my fears too. my worst nightmare came to life last year as I was abandoned but then again it goes back to my self sabotage and those fears.. if I hadn't feared it so much and put so much energy into that fear I'd probably still be with the one I love. he even told me as he was ending it that he couldn't take my self loathing anymore, that it's a shame I can't see what he and everyone else sees and that it was hurting him too much the way I "hurt" myself. I suppose what it all boils down to is just not feeling good enough. I'm pretty sure I know where that particular feeling stems from too but if I went into that I'd be here all night.


----------



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

minerva83 said:


> 4 here and count me in for the body dysmorphia as well. last year I made the decision that by the end of this year I'd overcome these debilitating body image issues as I know the issues are in my head really, not with my body. all the fears that Unico listed are my fears too. my worst nightmare came to life last year as I was abandoned but then again it goes back to my self sabotage and those fears.. if I hadn't feared it so much and put so much energy into that fear I'd probably still be with the one I love. he even told me as he was ending it that he couldn't take my self loathing anymore, that it's a shame I can't see what he and everyone else sees and that it was hurting him too much the way I "hurt" myself. I suppose what it all boils down to is just not feeling good enough. I'm pretty sure I know where that particular feeling stems from too but if I went into that I'd be here all night.


Well knowing what the problem is, what happened in the past is good, but it doesn't fix the problem. I figured out why i have these problems, but that didn't help. The one thing that is helping is this:

The key is repetition, reinforcement and reprogramming. For this determination is needed. Fake that you have no problems till you have no problems and never give up. Stop listening to the thoughts till they shrink into nothingness. 

When the negative thoughts come I catch myself and distract myself by listening to music and humming in my breath a little , singing. You can't think negatively when you a re listening to music and sing a little. Of course any distraction works, as long as it is effective in stopping the thoughts.

I have written logical statements that these thoughts are not real and I shouldn't listen to them, that I look good the way I am, that I'm alright and there is nothing wrong with me. I read over these every day.

Step1: stop listening to the automatic negative thoughts.
Step2: replace them with positive thoughts.
Step3: keep this up until the negative thoughts vanish and the positive ones take their place.


----------



## minerva83 (Jun 21, 2011)

you're right, Anarchy. actually me and another member here were discussing reprogramming and pattern interrupts particularly with using rubber bands on the wrist and giving them a good SNAP when the upsetting thought comes up.


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

minerva83 said:


> 4 here and count me in for the body dysmorphia as well. last year I made the decision that by the end of this year I'd overcome these debilitating body image issues as I know the issues are in my head really, not with my body. all the fears that Unico listed are my fears too. my worst nightmare came to life last year as I was abandoned but then again it goes back to my self sabotage and those fears.. if I hadn't feared it so much and put so much energy into that fear I'd probably still be with the one I love. he even told me as he was ending it that he couldn't take my self loathing anymore, that it's a shame I can't see what he and everyone else sees and that it was hurting him too much the way I "hurt" myself. I suppose what it all boils down to is just not feeling good enough. I'm pretty sure I know where that particular feeling stems from too but if I went into that I'd be here all night.


I would rather get cosmetic surgery than try to convince myself that I am pretty.


----------



## minerva83 (Jun 21, 2011)

Cleo the problem is in your head, I'm sure you know this on some level. once you get cosmetic surgery on your "defect" you'll find a new "defect" to agonize over. 

I hear you, though. accepting yourself the way you are is no easy feat by a long stretch. facing myself is my biggest fear but unless I do it my life is going to be more of the same, or worse even. your underlying beliefs will sabotage you every time.


----------



## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

Cleo said:


> I think I look very masculine. I want to change my entire face no matter how many surgeries. I sometimes think I have a body image disorder too. It hurts me to think that no matter how much I change my appearance, I was still not born to be the way I want or will look. Michael Jackson was such an inspiration when I think of that. He made himself look so great, even though he went to such extremes to get rid of what he thought were defects. He was still a very desirable man. I would given him babies.


I'm sorry you feel so badly about your appearance, Cleo I'm sure people find you more attractive than you find yourself. But really, what you think about yourself is what's most important, anyways, isn't it?


----------



## RRRoooaaaRRR (Jun 18, 2011)

Ok I`m going to ask each person here who is troubled by body dysmorphia or an extreme desire to be well above average in the physically attractive stakes this question:

*If you could choose:*

a) To have the most exquisite physical beauty. 

b) To have average looks, be confident, and be able to have the ability to enhance your looks with cosmetic surgery without getting caught up in the trap of never ending refinements.

c) To have average looks, be confident, and to be able to write a book about your experiences and personal growth which would motivate others to see that their quest for beauty is self defeating.

Which one would you choose ?


----------



## unico (Feb 3, 2011)

I would choose C, especially since I write and would love to be published. I know I'm not happier now than when I looked kind of funny and people didn't consider me attractive, it's just an obsession I have developed.


----------



## RRRoooaaaRRR (Jun 18, 2011)

unico said:


> I would choose C, especially since I write and would love to be published. I know I'm not happier now than when I looked kind of funny and people didn't consider me attractive, it's just an obsession I have developed.


That`s brilliant - it means that it is not your looks that you are obsessed about anymore, but that you need to do some NLP work to get rid of an outdated obsession


----------



## Nomenclature (Aug 9, 2009)

I'm a 3.

I fear being abandoned or being "just" another ANYTHING and the idea of being replaced. Call it selfish, but I want to play enough of a role in other people's lives for them to miss me if I'm gone.

I'm fixated on the idea that there is rarely such thing as unconditional understanding from the people who are the core of my life. A person can LOVE me without LIKING or UNDERSTANDING me. "He just does it because he cares about you" isn't enough if he pushes his bizarre form of affection on me without seeing where I'm coming from.

I fear being "just" another person to die. I KNOW that I'm good enough at everything I do to be able to contribute to whatever I put my energy into. I fear the most the idea of working my ass off with nothing to SHOW for it. If I DO nothing with my abilities and resources, I'm better off not having them.



> I would rather get cosmetic surgery than try to convince myself that I am pretty.


I don't fear being ugly as much as the way I could be treated for being ugly. The way I was born means nothing to me because my natural features were pure chance, technically mutations. Live with the social consequences of being ugly, or live with the social consequences of actually doing something about it? I'd rather pick the latter, thanks, though I'm not obsessed with it.

I personally think most people won't know what body dysmorphia is like or its triggers until they actually have it.



Cleo said:


> He made himself look so great, even though he went to such extremes to get rid of what he thought were defects.


Totally understand him there, though. Cindy Jackson as well. She actually gives pretty logical reasons for her surgery, but I think deep down, it stemmed from not wanting to resemble her father.












minerva83 said:


> using rubber bands on the wrist and giving them a good SNAP when the upsetting thought comes up.


Never would've thought of that, thanks. It's better than razor blades for sure.


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

minerva83 said:


> Cleo the problem is in your head, I'm sure you know this on some level. once you get cosmetic surgery on your "defect" you'll find a new "defect" to agonize over.
> 
> I hear you, though. accepting yourself the way you are is no easy feat by a long stretch. facing myself is my biggest fear but unless I do it my life is going to be more of the same, or worse even. your underlying beliefs will sabotage you every time.


Its true and I have decided to put everything into being pretty. Which is funny, because when I go to the grocery store, lately I just throw my hair in a ponytail and go. I need to make some life changes. But I don't know what. I used to put so much effort into my looks and I don't know why I don't anymore.


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

Nomenclature said:


> I'm a 3.
> 
> I fear being abandoned or being "just" another ANYTHING and the idea of being replaced. Call it selfish, but I want to play enough of a role in other people's lives for them to miss me if I'm gone.
> 
> ...


Wow I enjoyed reading that. Thanks. Its nice to know you understand what I mean about Michael Jackson. Since we are all learning from each other on here I will go ahead and say another reason why I want to change my face. Like I said I am afraid of looking too masculine, but also because I don't want to look like my father, not just in a masculine way, but I mean I reject that side of the family. Also, because I don't want to look native american. It took me a while to admit to that one. I don't have a problem being native american, its like 1/8 or 1/4 of my heritage, but it reminds me of not coming from a higher social class. Even though mostly I do.

I don't know why Michael Jackson and Angelina Jolie are so secretive about their surgeries though. I feel the need to be honest. When I get compliments, I feel kind of weird accepting them, because I am not natural. I don't tell everyone, but a lot of people.


----------



## RRRoooaaaRRR (Jun 18, 2011)

Wow that really shocks me - in a nice way. I think the whole culture of Native Americans is admirable - and the way they were dismissed and had THEIR land that they loved and knew and appreciated yanked from them, to me is abhorent. In my book Native American culture is way above the standard American Ownership/Power empty values. And what to me is crazier is that the Americxans `pride` themselves on being classless ... The American Dream (not). And what is more I think the Native American physical enigmaticness is extremely attractive. I think i maybe should make this my last post on this thread, I don`t fit in here


----------



## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

RRRoooaaaRRR said:


> Wow that really shocks me - in a nice way. I think the whole culture of Native Americans is admirable - and the way they were dismissed and had THEIR land that they loved and knew and appreciated yanked from them, to me is abhorent. In my book Native American culture is way above the standard American Ownership/Power empty values. And what to me is crazier is that the Americxans `pride` themselves on being classless ... The American Dream (not). And what is more I think the Native American physical enigmaticness is extremely attractive. I think i maybe should make this my last post on this thread, I don`t fit in here


I'm sorry if that made you feel bad. But I don't look like Pocahontas. My mom does though.  I have more of the features from the guy from black eyed peas. Which I think he is quite hot, but not quite what I want for myself. It also reminds me of the alcohol and sexual problems that were passed down on her side of the family. I don't have those problems, but I don't want to be reminded of them when I look in the mirror.


----------



## Nomenclature (Aug 9, 2009)

RRRoooaaaRRR said:


> Wow that really shocks me - in a nice way. I think the whole culture of Native Americans is admirable - and the way they were dismissed and had THEIR land that they loved and knew and appreciated yanked from them, to me is abhorent. In my book Native American culture is way above the standard American Ownership/Power empty values. And what to me is crazier is that the Americxans `pride` themselves on being classless ... The American Dream (not). And what is more I think the Native American physical enigmaticness is extremely attractive. I think i maybe should make this my last post on this thread, I don`t fit in here


Enigmaticness? Enigma? xD I took AP American history, and I could continue on class issue more in-depth, but I'll stay relatively on-topic here. Drop me a VM if you want to talk about Howard Zinn or something.

Anyway, it's similar for Asians (both middle east and far east). Those who lighten their skin don't do it to be white, but because of the class-based ideals of beauty. I remember my aunt who hadn't seen me for a while was like, "Your nose is so tall and straight!" o___O I honestly don't care how projected a nose is as long as its _width _complements the rest of the face. It's true-- traditional Asian parents aren't just obsessed with their children's academic advancement, but also LOOKING better.


----------

