# Cock Blocking



## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

What do you think about cock blocking? Is it a real thing?

What about for women? Do women cock block each other--is it the same or different?

Cock blocking for other genders?

For the purpose of this thread, cock blocking refers to interfering with some kind of intimacy between people (not exclusively sex or hook-ups--since I want to extend it outside of its traditional use). Wikipedia says it's usually done from competitiveness and jealousy, but I assume there can be more reasons.

Furthermore--it has been criticized that because "cock blocking" is seen as negative in male peer groups, that it could contribute to a culture in which men feel conflicted in intervening in situations that aren't consensual--such as harassment or assault. So that's also open to discussion. 

Do you feel that you are encouraged to intervene if you see something that could be not-consensual or are there tactful ways to do it? 

What are the signature behaviors of someone who is cock blocking? Are there necessary times for it?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

For me--I can think of a time when I was in high school and I had had some negative experiences with other high schoolers so I tended to try to avoid many of them.

We used to have a valentines day thing where a student could send a rose to another student, with a note.

The day came and went and I didn't expect to get a rose, and I didn't. But at the end of the day one of the boys who was from a more "popular" social group approached me. He looked at me from outside of class and he started walking over to me. He wasn't in any of my classes and I was just waiting inside the classroom--idk what I was doing.

I was suspicious of why he was approaching, and I think I just glowered at him a lot and then he got sort of embarrassed looking and hurt, and left without having any conversation.



Sometime later, I heard that he had sent a rose to me, but that because one of the girls in the leadership had a crush on him, she'd intervened and made sure that I never got it. Since these types of school programs are usually run by students. And the popular girls were the same that were running the school dances, the rose things etc.


And so he probably assumed I had gotten it the rose and then reacted to him that way because of it. I don't know what the note said since I never got it.


So that might be an example of how women/girls can cock block each other sometimes.


I felt bad after finding out why he was probably coming to talk to me--I hadn't even thought of the possibility. It didn't really bother me that much as I didn't know him, but I felt bad when I realized that he must have thought I read his note and was reacting to whatever he said. And rejecting him in an unusually hostile way. Because he wasn't really being hostile or anything--I just didn't understand why he was approaching.


Reminds me a little of the book Carrie.

After high school the same guy came into the store I was a clerk in, and I recognized him and decided to apologize to him--so I told him that I didn't realize and I hadn't gotten the rose, and I was sorry for glaring at him when he approached. It wasn't because he sent it.

And he just accepted that and said he had a girlfriend, which kind of bothered me because I wasn't telling him that because I wanted to rekindle some high-school thing, though I appreciate people wanting to let other people know they aren't single. So it all turned out alright though--just a little awkwardness (on my part--I think)--high school can be so hard socially for everyone.


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## BenevolentBitterBleeding (Mar 16, 2015)

WickerDeer said:


> What do you think about cock blocking? Is it a real thing?
> 
> What about for women? Do women cock block each other--is it the same or different?


It's definitely 'real'. Whether or not they know they're 'cock blocking' I guess is up to whether or not they're familiar with the term... obviously lol.

I think women do it to each other when they're jealous, or they don't want to be the one going home alone. I think guy's do it cause they actually like the girl, or they turn it into a competition because they think they have a shot too. I could also see both doing it because they're just trying to protecc their fren from making a rly bad decision.



> Furthermore--it has been criticized that because "cock blocking" is seen as negative in male peer groups, that it could contribute to a culture in which men feel conflicted in intervening in situations that aren't consensual--such as harassment or assault. So that's also open to discussion.


I don't think this is specific to 'cock blocking' but just a general 'man' code or something. Like, if you don't go along with whatever than you'll be ostracized, so weak men will just keep quiet and follow their bros or risk losing their connections/status.



> Do you feel that you are encouraged to intervene if you see something that could be not-consensual or are there tactful ways to do it?


I don't think I feel encouraged - that I'm aware of - by outside sources; unless we're talking like some past events that shaped my overall way of being?? Anything I personally do to intervene anywhere is because I make it a choice. At least, that's what I think??

Not to do with cockblocking, but I remember a few years back I was reading something on reddit of persons' experiences, and I guess I ended up with some kind of frequency illusion after or something, cause I happened to notice it while riding the subway. It seemed so unreal because it's not something that I would've ever considered as 'normal' occurrence for a person. That was an instance of where I intervened, and I think overall I'm thankful that I have access to read things like reddit.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> What do you think about cock blocking? Is it a real thing?
> 
> What about for women? Do women cock block each other--is it the same or different?
> 
> Cock blocking for other genders?


yes, it's quite real.

and I believe women do it far more frequently, but in a combination of passive aggressive manipulation of their opponent particularly if that person is a friend and more straight up like dudes do to their target. in competition, women more than men are likely to aggressively compete with each other. however, if their relations are unknown, they are more likely to swing first, ask questions later.






the males, like other members of the animal kingdom, are more likely to strut and try to court the available mate... it becomes a proverbial dick (sometimes literal) measuring contest against the other opponents regardless of the targets gender.






the same applies to those that identify as other than man or woman, perhaps more so because of limitations in finding an equitable partner and sometimes even just friends. though typically, they operate more by showcasing their vulnerability particularly if they do not adequately pass for one sex or the other and the target is representative of a cis male or female. so, competition can be quite fierce but sidetracks into questioning the target's famliarity with the realities and determining whether or not they are fetishist. people that specifically fetish exotic identities are viewed as very low tier interest. competitors are more willing to give it u p.

situations are particularly odd among those engaging in transvestism among cosplayers within fandoms and drag.. sexual or romantic interest may not be involved at all and it is a character war, a sport, for who most embodied the character(s) and can convincingly attract a throng of followers. but it often plays out in the same way as blocking in competition.



> Do you feel that you are encouraged to intervene if you see something that could be not-consensual or are there tactful ways to do it?
> 
> What are the signature behaviors of someone who is cock blocking? Are there necessary times for it?


I have no problem intervening... being both direct or taking a more passive approach, particularly if said person appears intoxicated.

the behaviors range from paying too much attention to target - looking from the outside, a form of worship to the engagement being more of an erotic dance between oponents.

there are always necessary times for it. . . albeit, it usually plays out in this way because people have lost the art of courting.

although having multiple suitors wasn't unheard of in centuries prior and that was a competition, too, although more directed at the target of their desire rather than each other... although their were feats of sports they could get involved with show their wuv and the option to duel.

nfsw, fictionalized;

* *


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

BenevolentBitterBleeding said:


> Not to do with cockblocking, but I remember a few years back I was reading something on reddit of persons' experiences, and I guess I ended up with some kind of frequency illusion after or something, cause I happened to notice it while riding the subway. It seemed so unreal because it's not something that I would've ever considered as 'normal' occurrence for a person. That was an instance of where I intervened, and I think overall I'm thankful that I have access to read things like reddit.


What do you mean here--you saw something on the subway and intervened?

I agree with you about people doing it to protect friends as well. I've done it for that reason (and according to her, the guy turned out to sexually assault her so I was right, though she felt like I was cock blocking her at first). I tried to fight him and she told me to calm down--that's happened to me a couple times when I was concerned about female friends and I had a hard time understanding what was flirting and what was aggression--because sometimes people aggressively flirt and I'm socially inept.

Except not when girls/women do it in a weird way--like seducing the guy. When I was a child it happened so frequently I stopped telling female friends how I felt. I'd get a huge crush on a guy and tell my friend, and she'd be dating him in a month and I'd be socially awkward and alone and now my crush and my best friend are dating.

I think there's something a little psychological about this behavior--like my feelings being so strong, I'm able to express them and it raises the value of the guy in the eyes of the other person. You see this happen sometimes with guys who are in relationships being more desirable because some women think "oh he's with a high-value girl then he must also have a high value, and so if I can get his attention, then I also have a high value."

But it's also not so dissimilar from behaviors I've seen in very young children--where one of them has a favorite object (sorry to objectify people, but I do think we should look at childhood impulses) and they always want to play with that object, and the other children notice and then it becomes a competition even though they never wanted it before.

I've probably been on both sides of that at some point in my development--like both the one who does the feeling strongly but also the one who gets curious what all the hoopla is about. (moreso the first though)

I think it's right to intervene and cock block to protect someone though. I also would do that, though I admit it'd be more difficult to go against other females.

Like if a friend was cheating on her partner and I didn't know him, it'd be socially awkward and definitely violate a social code for me to somehow intervene on his behalf. I assume it's the same for heterosexual men in such a case.

Even with my crushes--I remember covering for my best friend while she went and made out with my crush...she'd tell her mom she was at my house. I was like a bit pissed about that but at the same time I can't control other people's affections--it just happened enough times that I realized it was a pattern and I probably shouldn't gush about my crushes to her anymore.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Rift said:


> and I believe women do it far more frequently, but in a combination of passive aggressive manipulation of their opponent particularly if that person is a friend and more straight up like dudes do to their target. in competition, women more than men are likely to aggressively compete with each other. however, if their relations are unknown, they are more likely to swing first, ask questions later.


I am not going to believe women do it more without more evidence, but I agree that when they do it it tends to be more passive-aggressive and psychologically mind-fucking than when guys do it, probably.

There's not necessarily a code of ethics about it--or maybe it's not as explicit because women aren't traditionally supposed to do the pursuing.

But it can also break up friendships or result in a lot of mistrust. One of my best friends (who never did that to me) ended up dating the ex of one of her friends and that was so offensive to her friend that she never talked to her again--even though it was her ex. I don't really relate too much with that--yeah, it's kind of weird, but they weren't in a relationship.

I can't think of any "bros before hoes" mentality for women, though of course women should protect each other's safety as per feminism and such. That isn't really the same thing though.

Imo most women grow out of these kinds of antisocial behaviors by the time they are adults--but youth was pretty messy. 

There is the stigma against "sluts" though--which could be a bit like "bros before hoes" but at the same time a "slut" isn't necessarily the one who's going to try to fuck you over, because they don't have a lot of social power. It's just easy to attack them in public because of the taboo around females expressing their sexuality openly.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> I am not going to believe women do it more without more evidence, but I agree that when they do it it tends to be more passive-aggressive and psychologically mind-fucking than when guys do it, probably.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Yeah that was a lot of speculation.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Men generally don't cock block each other coz it's not cool to do so and you'll find yourself without friends or beaten up if you keep doing it.

Women on the other hand from what I see do it alot more often, especially when her friend doesn't like you but she does.

I've been in situations where my ex gf's friends didn't like me coz I was "too blunt" and "didn't fit in" with them, I didn't give a shit and they just constantly cock blocked me and put pressure onto my ex gf to break up with me, ultimately I just told her, what she likes in a guy is not what her friends like in a guy so make up your mind.

Later that week I got a break up text, no surprises there. Can't respect someone who needs to their friends to make decisions for them.


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## SgtPepper (Nov 22, 2016)

It's deffo real. I've witnessed women "cock-blocking" each other more, ironically.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Yeah--I've seen men get louder sometimes. Like they get louder in public when they want to draw attention to themselves.

Which isn't really cock blocking.

But I think women tend to more often do passive-aggressive snipes or underhanded compliments to sort of knock other women down a peg--especially when it relates to the other women's clothing. 

@ENTJudgement I'm sorry that happened to you. It sounds terrible. I think she probably knew that she made her own choices. 

It sounds like she brought it up to you so you could know and have a chance to react, and when you chose to continue being blunt, she chose to end it. I don't really know, but I'm not sure if you considered that possible perspective. It was her choice--as was bringing it up to you and giving you that choice.

I can understand why you chose what you did though--seems like it's a good idea to try to find a partner you can communicate with comfortably.

I didn't really think of telling people you don't think they should see other people as cock blocking--but it makes sense that it is as well.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I suspect one of the main reasons I made this thread and the blue balls one is just how fun they are to say.

The rhyming and alliterations--I wonder if there's any that refers to women and not male anatomy...like cock block and blue balls.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> I suspect one of the main reasons I made this thread and the blue balls one is just how fun they are to say.
> 
> The rhyming and alliterations--I wonder if there's any that refers to women and not male anatomy...like cock block and blue balls.




it seems more in languages other than english. it's also frequently associated with hand gestures which vary by culture. Costa Rica was an interesting one to look at. pre 2000s. wide variety of slang plus hand gestures and bodily movements. most frequent involving different aspects of bread making. similarly, Jamaica was another place with references to bread making as well.

in english, the options are primarily broken into adult language - often insults 






and childish alternatives 






but while there are less rhyming schemes in english, there are more usage of a play on words and a wider range of associations, symbolism. . . not just Georgia O'Keeffe's flowers.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Rift said:


> and childish alternatives
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol "hoo-hoo" sounds pretty funny.

Cunt is an interesting word--I remember learning about it while reading Chaucer, b/c he uses an older version of something like it--"queynt" which is "a clever or curious device or ornament" or an "elegant, pleasing thing." So was both "euphemism and pun."









Chaucer’s Cunt


Now that I have your attention, I regret to inform you that he didn’t have one. On several occasions recently, sometimes in conversations about censorship, I have heard people say that Chauce…




skepticalhumanities.com







> “Cunt,” like many naughty words for body parts and bodily functions, probably has its origins in Old English. It certainly has cognates in other medieval Germanic languages, such as Old Norse _kunta_ and Old Frisian, Middle Low German and Middle Dutch _kunte_ (_Oxford English Dictionary_). There are no known instances of it in Old English, however. James McDonald, in _The Wordsworth Dictionary of Obscenity and Taboo_, suggests that it may be related to Old English _cynd_, which means “origin, generation, birth, kind, offspring” and can also mean “genitalia” (_Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary_).


It's interesting how the word took on such a negative meaning, especially in the US.


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

WickerDeer said:


> What do you think about cock blocking? Is it a real thing?
> 
> What about for women? Do women cock block each other--is it the same or different?
> 
> ...


If there are signs that it's not-consensual, the guy is pulling her when she clearly wants to go away, I think it's not only indicated but moral to stop it. There's no intimacy there, there's one guy trying to have his way with her and a girl trying to get rid of him as soon as possible, that's not intimacy. The only thing you're ruining is that guy's predatory abuse.

If there are no signs that it's not-consensual, it's safe to assume that it's consensual until proven otherwise. If you would intervene in that situation, that would make you the jerk, you would break 2 people's chemestry. Maybe they just want to have a good time with each other, have a casual conversation while flirting and hitting on each other, and there you go, intervening between the 2 of them, without their consent, making both of them uncomfortable, both of them wishing you would leave. That is a jerk move and it's normal to be frowned upon and be seen as negative in male peer groups, in fact, in all-genders groups.

There are ameliorating cases, one of them is your boyfriend or girlfriend, then the whole situation changes 180 degrees and you have all the right to intervene. It's basically a cheating attempt. Of course, it may also be just a casual conversation without them hitting on each other, but I guess these things depend on context. If you're the type of boyfriend or girlfriend that won't let your partner talk to other men or women, that sucks and you're the problem. Just because you're talking to someone of the other gender, it doesn't mean you're hitting on them or having a relationship with them, even if you're not talking for professional purposes.

What do you think about cock blocking?
It depends on the context. If they are 2 single people hitting on each other and you intervene, bad.

Is it a real thing?
Yes.

What about for women?
I believe it works the same.

Do women cock block each other--is it the same or different?
It's probably the same, you talk to one girl, another is jealous and comes to join you two.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I believe it’s real.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Cock blocking is real. It's widely practiced by women, and sometimes men albeit rarely. Women who cockblock are often placated with attention, usually from the victim's wingman. Men who cockblock are at best frowned upon and ostracised, and at worst curb stomped.

I don't know what to make of it. On the one hand, it's lame. On the other hand, I respect the hustle. It's common for a man to seduce and sleep with an unattractive woman just so his friends can have a good time with her attractive friends.

It's difficult to tell. Women need to learn to say no, or better yet, stop going to clubs. Drunk and horny young men are not exactly known for their self control.

It depends. If it's a club, or a rave. I am not a captain save a ho. I'm not going to potentially throw my life away over it.
If it's not a place people go to to hook up, then yeah, I'll step in and try my best not to piss anyone off while I'm at it. I would dearly wish there's no escalation and that they back off with the threat of calling the police at most, but if I have to drop a creep I won't hesitate. Honestly, there's not a lot of incentive for being a hero, and there's a long list of reasons not to bother with it. I've seen guys trying to be heroes only for them to get jumped, stabbed and stomped on. Or imagine getting criminally charged and having the ho you tried to save testify against you because she loves the abusive piece of shit you pulled off of her? Believe it or not, it happens.

There are no signature behaviours I'm aware of. And yes, at times it is necessary. For instance I cockblocked a dude once and potentially saved his career and his life. He was in a toxic relationship and his crazy girlfriend came to a house party. They went to the toilet and she insisted he doesn't wear a condom. Lucky for him, I needed to use the toilet just as he was about to get up in there. He told me to allow him and come back, to which I obviously responded with a hell nah. When I saw that fool moving unprotected and the psycho look on her face, I knew he was this close to getting done for rape. I whispered in his ear that she was gonna do him for rape, and lo and behold, he was arrested at work the next day. They let him go after a couple of days because they had no evidence and she has a history of mental illness and falsifying statements. Imagine he didn't pull out. I hardly knew the guy at the time, and since that day, he reminds me every so often that he owes me his life.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

ENFPathetic said:


> Cock blocking is real. It's widely practiced by women, and sometimes men albeit rarely. Women who cockblock are often placated with attention, usually from the victim's wingman. Men who cockblock are at best frowned upon and ostracised, and at worst curb stomped.
> 
> I don't know what to make of it. On the one hand, it's lame. On the other hand, I respect the hustle. It's common for a man to seduce and sleep with an unattractive woman just so his friends can have a good time with her attractive friends.
> 
> ...


Wow--that all sounds so horrifying.

I've stepped in to try to help people before, and I agree that it's not really something that benefits you very much.

One of my friends was flirting with this guy and he was being kind of rough and I tried to stop him, but he told me he was going to tie me to a tree and she had to defuse that--and she told _me_ to calm down. Then later that night she said he sexually assaulted her, but I was passed out by then and wasn't able to help. I understand flirtation is weird and people are weird and sexual assault is serious, but I was a bit miffed at her at first.

I also tried to step in between a couple skinheads who were about to get in a fight once, and that didn't go well for anyone, really. And I probably could have died, but glad I didn't.

I think now it's better to use a water hose to break up a fight or perhaps pepper spray...maybe like breaking up a dog fight. But I can imagine how it could put a man at greater risk of that type of violence (as opposed to sexual violence, generally, which women might be at greater risk of) to try to step in the way of someone who's acting badly.

Yeah I don't go to clubs and bars are also boring--pretty much most of humanity is scary enough to want to avoid them.

I can't really help trying to step in when someone needs help, even though it has been risky, but I think people tend to react differently to women doing that than men. I don't consider other people "hoes" though. But I agree it's good to be cautious and consider the best course of action to avoid someone getting hurt (especially one's self). And I agree with you that it carries some risk--perhaps it carries more risk for men (of that kind of physical violence) because of gender norms.


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## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

WickerDeer said:


> What do you think about cock blocking? Is it a real thing?
> 
> What about for women? Do women cock block each other--is it the same or different?
> 
> ...


Men do cockblock each other. The most common type of cockblock occurs when one man says or does something around a woman that another man happens to observe, and feels is socially inappropriate. This second man may feel obligated to step in out of duty, to protect the woman, regardless of whether she is enjoying herself or not. He may insult the first man and challenge him to a fight for the woman's honour, believing that she is a prize to be won through self-sacrifice and public demonstrations of virtue.

This white knighting will greatly annoy the first man and usually leads to some blows being exchanged, especially if one or both of the guys are under the influence.

I would also note that Victim women (Socionics Ni-egos) may deliberately encourage men to behave in this way in order to test their strength against each other (Se seeking).

P.S. I think your decision to steer clear of bars and clubs is very wise. Sexual desire does not mix well with alcohol and party drugs.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Meliodas said:


> Men do cockblock each other. The most common type of cockblock occurs when one man says or does something around a woman that another man happens to observe, and feels is socially inappropriate. This second man may feel obligated to step in out of duty, to protect the woman, regardless of whether she is enjoying herself or not. He may insult the first man and challenge him to a fight for the woman's honour, believing that she is a prize to be won through self-sacrifice and demonstrations of public virtue.
> 
> This white knighting will greatly annoy the first man and usually leads to some blows being exchanged, especially if one or both of the guys are under the influence.
> 
> I would also note that Victim women (Socionics Ni-egos) may deliberately encourage men to behave in this way in order to test their strength against each other (Se seeking).


I've heard of that kind of macho violence, or men challenging other men because of other offenses like that.

I wondered about how common it is for women to try to get men to engage in this type of macho behavior because I've heard accounts from men that they've observed that. Even like women making eyes at guys and then trying to get their boyfriends to start something.






That is an interesting point about socionics--I've never met a woman who acted like that (that I knew) but when I think about it, some men might also try to encourage catfights, though in different ways. Like an Se dom ex I had tended to stoke jealousy when dating a woman--which seemed to result in him trying to pit his partner against other women...and I have also seen Ni dom guy act sort of like that too. I've always found it really bizarre. 

I am probably too averse to violence to really understand it. It just seems stupid to me--if you like someone, then that is what is important. Not whether they will fight with other people for you. But then...that would be more like the caregiving/infantile (Si/Ne) socionics people--like you care more about the well-being of your partner than to see them in some shitty fight over something stupid.


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> Usually though, even with pepper spray I feel this nefarious need to be polite--"how would you like to be sprayed with pepper spray? I've never been! It seems like an interesting new experience, doesn't it?" But then they somehow get the point.


i'm mopping coffee off my lap. THAT is passive aggression on a whole other level. and yeah; if i follow it htrough sequentially it seems equally likely to trigger 'well, here - let me take that little can off you and make your day new and interesting' from the most-wrong of the wrong kinds of guy.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

lilysocks said:


> i'm mopping coffee off my lap. THAT is passive aggression on a whole other level. and yeah; if i follow it htrough sequentially it seems equally likely to trigger 'well, here - let me take that little can off you and make your day new and interesting' from the most-wrong of the wrong kinds of guy.


They somehow get it when you bring pepper spray into it though.

I did once get like a really angry guy from that though--he was acting like a predator and I still feel like it was a really close call, but I just asked him "do you want any pepper spray" and he got really really mad. 

🤷‍♀️ You can't please everyone.

Being polite really does seem to be counterproductive for a lot of women though. It just takes that little amount of time when you're hesitating and thinking "oh maybe I'm overreacting" for someone to do something bad. But I'm talking about the really bad people, I guess.

I remember one guy--he literally jumped when I asked him if he'd like to "try out pepperspray"--somehow earlier when I had been trying to leave the room, and he'd been grabbing me and not letting me leave through the door, he wasn't able to figure out what I meant. So the pepperspray seemed to help him understand. I don't know if he knew how much his behavior bothered me, but there was a switch that went off as soon as he grabbed me. I don't like feeling trapped.

As I am more mature now, I just speak plainly as I can when a person isn't being threatening.

I don't tell people I have boyfriends, or I'm a lesbian, or that I'm 13 anymore. The 13 one--I was trying to think of whether it was me or my coworker who thought that one up. I think she was the one who claimed she was my mother and I was 13--and that worked alright. I felt kind of bad about it though because I don't like lying and it probably made the guy feel really weird and bad that he hit on a 13 year old.


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## lilysocks (Nov 7, 2012)

WickerDeer said:


> Being polite really does seem to be counterproductive for a lot of women though.


i don't think it's just about 'really bad' people. the whole process is usually a series of boundary tests. does she object to me doing this? how about this? how about . . . i mean, i've seen it minding my own business on a city bus [and i've bounced up and cockblocked]. the guy who sits down right next to the easiest-looking female target and actually _says_ 'you don't mind me taking this seat, do you?' which puts her on the spot to choose between truth and 'polite' and is especially invidious because it has the answer he wants baked right into it. so the hurdle for her to jump if she wants to say no is a just a little higher. 

never have i ever seen a guy push that boundary, succeed, and then stop. she says something polite, and next thing you know he's imposing a 'conversation' on her. over the course of the 'conversation' he imposes his point of view onto her and keeps the onus on her to be 'rude' at each fresh step by contradicton. and so on and so on.

that's why i favour just being direct. by the time most younger women are uncomfortable enough to gain the courage of their own discomfort, they're caught in the mixed-messages trap. and the 'no' they need to say by that point is usually so much bigger than simply 'yes, i do mind you taking this seat.' 

my sister and i compared experiences a little the last time she was here. we're both late-born products of the second wave, and both of us have been fiercely bodacious for most of our grownup lives (i caught on a lot later than her). we were talking about our opinion that things have gone backwards to a really depressing degree in some ways.

she told me how she was out with a group of young (university) students in some capacity where she was sort of responsible for them, and some guy was being persistent in some public place with at least a couple of them. she said stormed back and basically ordered him to get away from them. and then she immediately apologized to the kids for just taking over without even checking with them.

waht sobered her was she said 'it wasn't even about that. they were all standing there with their mouths open looking at me. one of them said 'you mean you can _do that_? just tell them to leave you alone?' idk what she said back to them but it probably good. 

i found that story depressing as hell. i thought we were past that.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

lilysocks said:


> i don't think it's just about 'really bad' people. the whole process is usually a series of boundary tests. does she object to me doing this? how about this? how about . . . i mean, i've seen it minding my own business on a city bus [and i've bounced up and cockblocked]. the guy who sits down right next to the easiest-looking female target and actually _says_ 'you don't mind me taking this seat, do you?' which puts her on the spot to choose between truth and 'polite' and is especially invidious because it has the answer he wants baked right into it. so the hurdle for her to jump if she wants to say no is a just a little higher.
> 
> never have i ever seen a guy push that boundary, succeed, and then stop. she says something polite, and next thing you know he's imposing a 'conversation' on her. over the course of the 'conversation' he imposes his point of view onto her and keeps the onus on her to be 'rude' at each fresh step by contradicton. and so on and so on.
> 
> ...


Yeah--I definitely think you can tell people to go away--whether or not they listen is another thing.

Some of the examples I gave were at work (also a long time ago--I wouldn't pass for 13 now)--but I used to work at a military store and a lot of men would come in, and for some reason a lot of men would ask me out. I'm guessing that it was something about they love military stuff and maybe they assume I also did since I worked there. So it was a little bit awkward at work because it's not like I could be like "get out of the store!" unless they actually did something weird--and even then it was uncomfortable. Like one time this guy was looking at a knife from the knife case and he started talking about how he was a psychopath and that was a bit creepy. But even then I was sort of weirded out and not quite sure what to do--though one good thing about that job, when I think back on it, is they pretty much always had two women working together at the same time, which probably helped it feel more comfortable. All the employees were women.

When it comes to people on the streets--part of the problem I have had to overcome (and haven't fully) is that I absolutely can't stand it when people assume my intentions or my feelings.

So I tend to extend that to people I meet--I don't like to assume they are talking to me because they are interested in me. I talk to people in public, and like 99.9 percent of the time it has nothing to do with being attracted to them or interested in them. So I don't want to assume that men and women can only talk to each other if one of them is coming on to the other.

But other people LOVE to make assumptions like that. I don't go to bars, but one of the last times I did it was like that--I talked to someone and this other guy came up to me and was like "that guy's a really great guy...I saw you talking to him...and you should give him a chance. He's really great" And I was just thinking "fuck you--I don't fucking have to be interested in everyone I talk to." I just really dislike it when people assume things like that. I wasn't interested in the guy--he seemed like a Satanist, and while I respect people's choices, I'm not really into that. There was really no connection at all. 

But then I have to do a reality check and go "oh yeah--I guess most people don't go to bars just to be friendly and talk to people." And I don't like going to bars at all now, especially since it just seems like some assumption that you are there for a hookup. 

So for me it's a bit challenging, because I find it rude to make assumptions like that about people, but at the same time the reality is that people do assume things and it's also really hard to tell what a person's intentions are--we're all in the same boat that way. I just really dislike assumptions about human behavior like if I'm talking to someone I must be interested in them or attracted to them--this is just so backwards for me. Tbh, especially when I was younger, I had a really hard time talking to someone I was actually attracted to--I'm not just going to go up and start chatting with someone because I'm interested in them, unless I do some preparation beforehand or know something about them, usually. There have been a few times, and it's been fun--but it's really rare, especially in public.


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## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

ENFPathetic said:


> I'm confused. Do you want them to be aggressive? If so, that's a terrible idea.
> 
> I don't like the cultural status quo. If I ever saw a man hitting on a sister or daughter of mine, I would break every bone in his body.


If you get jealous of men who flirt with your sister or daughter and try to beat them up, you'll end up in jail for violent assault. Women are not your personal property.

I would urge you not to spoil and overprotect your daughters, as this will lead them to develop a lazy, conceited attitude in life. Women with a possessive, authoritarian father often have no sense of gratitude or personal responsibility, as they have come to expect men to provide for their every need. Do you really want an exploitative and parasitical girlfriend?






Urban Dictionary: Princess Syndrome


An increasingly prevalent condition found primarily in young heterosexual American women. Characterized by (1) unrealistically high expectations; (2) materialistic conduct; (3) a sense of entitlement; (4) exploitative behavior; (5) feelings of superiority; and (6) a lack of regard for society’s...




www.urbandictionary.com


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

WickerDeer said:


> I used to use that excuse when I was young--but it didn't work since it's probably pretty common.
> 
> I got "well your boyfriend doesn't have to know," and calling the bluff "why don't you invite your boyfriend to come with us, then?"
> 
> ...


You’d probably not be surprised how many times “No thanks I’m married.” has been taken as a challenge 🙄
Although I learned the fuck off and leave me alone thing, walking away, and I’m pretty well trained in self defense if needed. 

As for cock blocking, 🤔

I knew this girl who was friends with my friend and whenever she went ANYWHERE she would call dibs on almost any guy there and then get pissy if they talked to anyone else other than her. It was absolutely obnoxious.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Lady of Light said:


> You’d probably not be surprised how many times “No thanks I’m married.” has been taken as a challenge 🙄
> Although I learned the fuck off and leave me alone thing, walking away, and I’m pretty well trained in self defense if needed.
> 
> As for cock blocking, 🤔
> ...


Yeah--I wouldn't be surprised. It's ridiculous. I think they know it's rude sometimes.

What kind of self-defense training would you recommend, if you were to recommend it for women?

That sounds really obnoxious and weird with that girl--as if people are property you just get to decide belong to you without them even getting a say. Seems so weird for people to approach romance that way.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

WickerDeer said:


> Yeah--I wouldn't be surprised. It's ridiculous. I think they know it's rude sometimes.
> 
> What kind of self-defense training would you recommend, if you were to recommend it for women?
> 
> That sounds really obnoxious and weird with that girl--as if people are property you just get to decide belong to you without them even getting a say. Seems so weird for people to approach romance that way.


A basic self defense class is good start. Police departments will often have classes you can sign up for. So will some martial arts centers. I took a few in college but my dad taught me a lot growing up too. 
I’ve taken several different martial arts and boxing. I also have my CWP and carry mace and a taser.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Meliodas said:


> If you get jealous of men who flirt with your sister or daughter and try to beat them up, you'll end up in jail for violent assault. Women are not your personal property.
> 
> I would urge you not to spoil and overprotect your daughters, as this will lead them to develop a lazy, conceited attitude in life. Women with a possessive, authoritarian father often have no sense of gratitude or personal responsibility, as they have come to expect men to provide for their every need. Do you really want an exploitative and parasitical girlfriend?
> 
> ...


I'll take the risk 10/10 times. It's not a matter of jealousy, authoritarianism or possessiveness and whatnot. It's a matter of duty. If every man took responsibility and protected the women who are related to him, you wouldn't have women making up imaginary boyfriends to ward off the unwanted advances of men.

Well, I don't lie to any of the women in my life. None of them see the world through a disney pixar lens. I tell them precisely what we as men are like and the ruthless and misleading nature of the dating game. When they meet a guy they like, they let me know and I vet the guy. If he's emotionally stable and has a legal job he passes the fitness test. He can get to know her under two conditions. He doesn't touch her and he doesn't approach her without my knowledge. My involvement stops the day he takes responsibility.

My sisters and cousins are all happily married. They've never had their hearts broken by a clueless good guy who just wasn't ready, nor have they been emotionally broken and scarred by some asshole. And they are far from lazy. They run their households better than most top CEOs run their companies. They're all highly educated and home school their children.


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## Meliodas (Nov 16, 2016)

ENFPathetic said:


> I'll take the risk 10/10 times. It's not a matter of jealousy, authoritarianism or possessiveness and whatnot. It's a matter of duty. If every man took responsibility and protected the women who are related to him, you wouldn't have women making up imaginary boyfriends to ward off the unwanted advances of men.
> 
> Well, I don't lie to any of the women in my life. None of them see the world through a disney pixar lens. I tell them precisely what we as men are like and the ruthless and misleading nature of the dating game. When they meet a guy they like, they let me know and I vet the guy. If he's emotionally stable and has a legal job he passes the fitness test. He can get to know her under two conditions. He doesn't touch her and he doesn't approach her without my knowledge. My involvement stops the day he takes responsibility.
> 
> My sisters and cousins are all happily married. They've never had their hearts broken by a clueless good guy who just wasn't ready, nor have they been emotionally broken and scarred by some asshole. And they are far from lazy. They run their households better than most top CEOs run their companies. They're all highly educated and home school their children.


You don't seem to accept that women can make rational decisions about their own life, including who they want to share it with. Also, throwing punches at a man for flirting with your sister on the street is base thuggery, and hardly an act of heroism. That you would even consider doing so suggests a reckless disregard for the law, along with a dangerous need to coerce the women around you into a state of dependency.

I never thought I would say this on PerC, but reading your post made me think that perhaps the feminists actually have a point.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

Meliodas said:


> You don't seem to accept that women can make rational decisions about their own life, including who they want to share it with. Also, throwing punches at a man for flirting with your sister on the street is hardly an act of heroism. That you would even consider doing so suggests a dangerous need to control others and force them into a state of dependency.
> 
> I never thought I would say this on PerC, but shit, perhaps the feminists actually have a point.


You're wrong. Young people in general don't make rational decisions about their own life. It's why they have parents and older siblings etc to guide them. I don't tell the women in my life who to love. I inform about the world and give them my protection. They involve me because they trust my guidance, not because I force it on them. I understand why you'd come to these conclusions. The current clusterfuck of a dating game is the norm for you. Anything that deviates from that has a negative connotation by default.

I don't give a shit about heroism. If you're interested, do it with respect and commitment. Only the most naive of men would even utter the bullshit you just uttered.

There's nothing wrong with feminists. The bat shit crazy bitches who claim feminism are just attempting to hijack the movement.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

I don't think I've ever actually seen it? I can't think of any examples. Maybe I'm oblivious? 

Unless like the time my brother answered the phone and proceeded to tell my gay best friend that "I wasn't allowed to have boys call the house" counts? That wasn't a rule and he was just way too over protective.


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## BenevolentBitterBleeding (Mar 16, 2015)

This may be an example.


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