# Reasoning for Alternate Enneagram Questionnaire



## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

A different version of the questionnaire has been stickied in the _What is my Type?_ forum. We've created this thread to present some of the additions and changes, and the reasoning behind them.

The questionnaire being a public utility, @_timeless_ of our Personality Cafe staff will be making the final decisions regarding how proposed changes to this form are to be addressed.

Notable mentions: @_Boss_, @_Paradigm_, @_Spades_, @_Owfin_, @_madhatter_, and @_listentothemountains_, listed as co-creators of the original. Also, @_Wake_, as my collaborator.




> *Prerequisites*
> 
> What age range are you in?


 A vague question, not inherently asking the typee for too much information, but trying to get some insight into their approximate stage of development in life.







> Any disorders or conditions we should know about?


 A question to firmly separate the issue, put it on the table as something to take into consideration when reading the person’s responses. It may, in the end, serve to point away from a given type.








> *Main Questions*
> 
> 1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.


 A somewhat vague question, designed to draw out the person’s motivations. It offers both a sense of deeper purpose than the original (“What do you think your life is about?” speaks more broadly than “What do you look for?”) and offers a few specific options to start the typee off in their thinking. 







> 2. What were you like as a kid?


 Youth is a very strong foundation for a lot of the aspects of your ensuing life, and hence it is useful to get a fuller picture of a person. The Riso-Hudson theory that Enneagram types arise in youth from certain patterns is a sound possibility, so it seems like useful information to have in considering a person’s type.

Like with everything else, other elements of the answer to this question may also prove informative.







> 3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?


 Childhood patterns again, and general considerations that may lead to further information for typing. To children, parents are authority figures, so how you react or interact can be telling.







> 4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?


 The ordering of these two was altered. Shifting from the positive to the negative, rather than the other way around, seems like an important change to avoid the typee’s self-envisionment becoming clouded by emotional bias.







> 5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?


 An expansion on the fears question to include a reference back to childhood, because that is where many Enneagram theorists hypothesize that the central fear(s) began. The second question continues this line of questioning into the long-term, as is done, yet again, in theory. 


The next three questions deal with the different triads. In the original questionnaire, the equivalent of question 6 represents the image triad, but the gut and head did not seem represented in such an individual way. The addition of questions to do this seemed pertinent, and the format has been varied in order to keep the typee’s interest or put less strain on them.



> 6. a.) How do you see yourself?
> b.) How do you want others to see you?


 The original ordering of these questions was reversed. We changed it to remove possible bias from describing your idealized vision first.







> c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?


 An addition by Timeless that was deemed a good addition here in the flow of the questionnaire. The ordering of these questions suggests a progression from inward to outward focus.







> 7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
> a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
> b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you
> c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.


 A question about the instinctive triad. Assuming the typee wants a proper result, they will be honest here..or they might not be; either way, combined with the rest of the questionnaire it can easily be telling.

Note that the typee can choose to add explanation here to justify their choice, and so far at least one has done so.

Option a: Type 8. Quoth Timeless, “They want what they want, and they want lots of it.”

Option b: Type 9. Primarily seeking inner and outer peace.

Option c: Type 1. Setting the world around them right in whatever respect, even if they’re taking a self-improvement approach to doing this, like the medical student in training who aims to right the world’s ills.

All three differ significantly; they were designed to appeal to the right people.







> 8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?



While it was left vague enough that other types may also offer useful input, this is clearly a question to provoke a thinking triad core. The character of the response will help in type differentiation.







> 9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?


 A general experience question, not changed from the original.







> 10.





> Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
> a.) anger
> b.) shame
> c.) anxiety


 The original wording of this question was “Describe how you experience each of:”.

The problem with this wording is that people can give responses that aren’t relevant, such as where the emotion is located in their body, or what physical feeling is associated with it. Simply put, it was too vague.

We saw fit to change it to something more productive. A response to what provokes each emotion can give us a sense of how entrenched a person is in that emotion. A response to how they feel to the person preserves the possibilities inherent in the original question. A response to how the emotions are reacted to can give a sense, again, of how central they are, but also how the person perceives them with regards to himself. Overall, a more productive question than the original.







> 11.





> Describe how you respond to the following:
> a.) stress
> b.) negative unexpected change
> c.) conflict


 The word “negative” was added to part b for emphasis, to get more clearly at a core response. Unexpected change can clearly be positive or neutral as well; is this going to provoke a response from someone that speaks as much to their Enneagram core? Past typees sometimes included these options anyway and essentially wasted their time.







> 12.





> a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?
> b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?
> c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?


 This is an expansion on the original questionnaire’s question on power and authority.

Leaving it at “power” and “authority” is unnecessarily vague. The two concepts run into each other and have numerous associations. You can get philosophical treatises from one person, and overgeneralization from the next.

Instead of that, we chose to put the question into relatable contexts. The first question, on your role in a group, is neutral, and open for any response. The second question deals with how you handle having authority, while the third deals with how you handle others having it over you. Note that all questions leave room for justification, so regardless of an answer yes or no to question c, you can explain it however you like. 







> 13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?


 Enneagram type definitively colors how you view the world, and the realm of people is important to everyone. This question was deemed important enough to put in the regular section, instead of left outside as extra information.







> 14. Comment on your relationship with trust.


 This was also in the original questionnaire as an optional question. However, it is invaluable for figuring out how a person perceives himself and others, and evaluates the possibility for conflict with the external world, and on what level. It can get at a high or low level of doubt, insecurity, and so forth. This point was not directly touched on by any other question, so we felt it important to include here.







> 15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?


 A moment for self-reflection, drawing the person back from the hypothetical into the context surrounding their life. This was posed at the end of the questionnaire so that it doesn’t bias what they wrote beforehand. It can point to the person’s level and kind of self-awareness, and provide disambiguating information.




> Optional Question (due to personal nature)
> 
> Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.


 Left optional because of the intimate nature of the question.




So, if they feel like answering more, they can proceed to the extra questions, which have their use:



> Extra Questions





> Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)
> 
> - To constantly push yourself to be “the best”
> - To be without needs, well-intentioned
> ...


 Yes, this question is kind of explicit about the tendencies of the Enneagram types. None of these are really positive, though – each of them highlights a different potential weakness. An honest typee will respond honestly about which one(s) of these they tend to, and may even give specification as to how or why they tend towards it, or extra information. At this point, though, the rest of any typee’s questionnaire will have given us enough data that regardless of any discrepancy here, we should already have a grasp on their type – that is why this falls under the optional questions.

The question has a dual purpose as an educational tool for the typee, as well, to help him gain insight into himself, especially if he connects strongly with one of these temptations.







> What's something you are: a.) thankful you have b.) wish you could have? Why?


 Unchanged, same category.


*OVERALL:*

Enneagram theories are often oriented toward origin of some sort. Some theorists center themselves around childhood, and others around an origin of Enneagram type in the person's soul. Either way, it would clearly have an impact on the person's childhood - it is a highly formational time in a person's life, so making this questionnaire more childhood-focused is a way to ground the typee and see him as a fuller person. It orients his understanding toward the past and encourages him to see how it impacts the present. 

The overall ordering of the questionnaire shifts from past-based questions to present/general, which makes sense in this context.

The intent is not to combine questionnaires, but to offer a different option. Feedback to improve this questionnaire will be taken into consideration.

*Proposed updates*

Question 13: 

Revise to: "What do you see or notice in others that you think most people don't?"
Add on: "Why do you look for these things?"

Question 14:

Add on: "What do you trust and why?"

Question 15: 

Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? *Are there any pressing issues or concerns in your life right now?* Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire? 

The bolded text was added from the original. Reasoning: Present issues/concerns may also affect the typing.

Extra question, option for 6:

Revise to: "To question things and/or react to possible threats."


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks. I will get back to you.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Alright, alright I can see the relevance of most of the questions. However, I still think 7 and 15 can be omitted and the persons type could still be determined with the information provided. I just don't see the use for them. 

Also, I motion that we keep both questionnaires. I dont think this one should take the place of the old one. It focuses more on the childhood, which is beneficial but I still dont think it completely trumps the other one. Or, we could just mesh the two together.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

I'll post a response soon after taking consideration of your reasonings and going over the questions again.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Chipps said:


> Alright, alright I can see the relevance of most of the questions. However, I still think 7 and 15 can be omitted and the persons type could still be determined with the information provided. I just don't see the use for them.


Can you work around the logic for them to tell me why? I need some meat to consider your viewpoint here.



> Also, I motion that we keep both questionnaires. I dont think this one should take the place of the old one. It focuses more on the childhood, which is beneficial but I still dont think it completely trumps the other one.


I need specifics again. Is there something you think was better about the old one?



> Or, we could just mesh the two together.


Do you have a proposal for how?


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

Chipps said:


> Also, I motion that we keep both questionnaires. I dont think this one should take the place of the old one. It focuses more on the childhood, which is beneficial but I still dont think it completely trumps the other one. Or, we could just mesh the two together.


Defensiveness and stubbornness of the old ways is only harmful to this discussion and has no place here. There is reason why I didn't feel comfortable pushing through every single change one at a time, because I didn't trust the original creators of the original questionnaire, two of whom I'm not on good terms with, to look at my argument in a completely objective way. You're just reflecting the emotional reactive approach I feared. Please stay objective and give reasoning for your ideas because this thread has no other purpose.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Wake said:


> Defensiveness and stubbornness of the old ways is only harmful to this discussion and has no place here. There is reason why I didn't feel comfortable pushing through every single change one at a time, because I didn't trust the original creators of the original questionnaire, two of whom I'm not on good terms with, to look at my argument in a completely objective way. You're just reflecting the emotional reactive approach I feared. Please stay objective and give reasoning for your ideas because this thread has no other purpose.


Wake, this is just the first page. Please remain objective yourself. It's a sincere request. Let's not get personal. I don't want this thread to get closed. Pre-emptive defensiveness has no place here either. The original creators haven't said anything about the questionnaire yet. It would be pointless to misuse the amnesty. Stay on topic, everyone.


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

Boss said:


> Wake, this is just the first page. Please remain objective yourself. It's a sincere request. Let's not get personal. I don't want this thread to get closed. Pre-emptive defensiveness has no place here either. The original creators haven't said anything about the questionnaire yet. Stay on topic, everyone.


Nothing was personal. I was stating the purpose of this thread and how he erodes it with a stance of stubbornness to any change, clinging to the old without honest reason or willingness to state it at least. This thread was made with a purpose of reasoning out the differences, and accepting the best position we can find on every single question. I would accept a position of ignorance from others, but prefer to find solutions.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Wake said:


> Nothing was personal. I was stating the purpose of this thread and how he erodes it with a stance of stubbornness to any change, clinging to the old without honest reason or willingness to state it at least. This thread was made with a purpose of reasoning out the differences, and accepting the best position we can find on every single question. I would accept a position of ignorance from others, but prefer to find solutions.


Unfortunately, you made it personal by expressing your distrust of original creators. I encourage you to keep the contents of this post in mind:



> Therefore, whatever thread is chosen to discuss, there will be an amnesty for any groups which have separation agreements (just in this thread). *So if want to work on a combined survey then that means you agree to put the past behind you for the duration of this.
> *
> This isn't a free pass to be asses to each other either, so please play nice together.


So, let's end that line of conversation right here and not repeat it again.

I will get back with my suggestions and critique later. Thanks.


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

Boss said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately, you made it personal by expressing your distrust of original creators. But, let's end that line of conversation right here.


People were bound to ask why it was done this way, and those who are in the know understand me and support my approach.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

Wake said:


> Defensiveness and stubbornness of the old ways is only harmful to this discussion and has no place here. There is reason why I didn't feel comfortable pushing through every single change one at a time, because I didn't trust the original creators of the original questionnaire, two of whom I'm not on good terms with, to look at my argument in a completely objective way. You're just reflecting the emotional reactive approach I feared. Please stay objective and give reasoning for your ideas because this thread has no other purpose.


Why so serious? 

You're the one who took it upon yourself to change the questionnaire without consulting anyone else who helps with typing and the enneagram. Surely you arent the only one who participates, correct? And its not stubborness, its called disagreement. You want your questionnaire implemented and they old one discarded. Well, I disagree with that. Obviously you expected people be against it. And you're right, there is little use for two questionnaires to be stickied. There should be one. But yours isnt just going to take the place of the old one just because you want it to. I said there is useful information in this one. But there is benefit to the old one as well. There are still some questions that need to be done away with. I will address this in my response to flatlander.


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

First of all, I love the effort put into improving the questionnaire and I thank you for it. However, I'm wondering if childhood, disorders and religious/political beliefs can be situationally misguiding to someone trying to type the person.

I agree with @Chipps and think that both should be kept for now. The old one was good in my opinion and this one is possibly better but only time will tell.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Loveternity

I appreciate the effort myself. Currently, I am looking into phrasing the childhood questions better.


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

Chipps said:


> Why so serious?


I was just getting my point across.





> You're the one who took it upon yourself to change the questionnaire without consulting anyone else who helps with typing and the enneagram. Surely you arent the only one who participates, correct?


I do not talk to two of the three original creators of the questionnaire... No I wouldn't pitch them good ideas to be shot down. I trust PerC staff to make decisions best for everybody, not your average joe. This thread is under Timeless for to resolve this issue.





> And its not stubborness, its called disagreement.


You need to talk to Flatlander about his questions about logic to prove that.





> You want your questionnaire implemented and they old one discarded.Well, I disagree with that.


I want to clear the new changes and have leadership I can depend on. I don't care what we do with the original. Treebob spoke too soon in that past thread to say that was my opinion. I wanted the staff to control the original and implement changes they viewed worthy.





> Obviously you expected people be against it. And you're right, there is little use for two questionnaires to be stickied. There should be one. But yours isnt just going to take the place of the old one just because you want it to. I said there is useful information in this one.


I stated the purpose of the thread. It really isn't a bad thing. Talk logical reasoning for or against change, and be objective.






> But there is benefit to the old one as well. There are still some questions that need to be done away with. I will address this in my response to flatlander.


Good


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

@Flatlander

I'm having a really hard time seeing the relevance to questions 15 and 7. What information will be gained from them that wouldnt be apparent without them? 

Instinctive triad can be determined with questions 4, 6, 9, 10, 11 and 12. 1, 8 and 9 will become very apparent through the answers for those questions. I re-read question 7 and thought about how I'd answer it, and as a 1 fixer, I wouldnt have known which to choose. But C would not have appealed to me at all. I would have probably not answered that one.

Also with 15, I just dont see what its going to provide us with. You say it indicates self awareness, but isnt the entire questionnaire about self awareness? Self aware people will offer very detailed answers about who they are/how they are/what they do etc, while people who are less self aware will be vague. But that will be obvious from how they approach the rest of the questionnaire, wont it?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Loveternity said:


> First of all, I love the effort put into improving the questionnaire and I thank you for it. However, I'm wondering if childhood, disorders and religious/political beliefs can be situationally misguiding to someone trying to type the person.


How exactly do you mean?

In my viewpoint, a typer should attempt to be objective and take these things into consideration as possible influencing factors on a person's type readout, so the underlying possibilities can be considered. If the typer isn't able to be objective, then it isn't a problem with the form. Were you talking about something different?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Chipps said:


> @_Flatlander_
> 
> I'm having a really hard time seeing the relevance to questions 15 and 7. What information will be gained from them that wouldnt be apparent without them?
> 
> Instinctive triad can be determined with questions 4, 6, 9, 10, 11 and 12. 1, 8 and 9 will become very apparent through the answers for those questions. I re-read question 7 and thought about how I'd answer it, and as a 1 fixer, I wouldnt have known which to choose. But C would not have appealed to me at all. I would have probably not answered that one.


At this point, it seems appropriate to remind you that you're experienced in the Enneagram, and probably looking at it through that perspective. The real question to ask is how you would have evaluated it before this was the case, as typees are presumably not steeped in the material.

If I may ask, which do you tend to? There are different reasons that someone, especially someone who isn't in the instinctive triad as a core, may choose a different priority between the three.



> Also with 15, I just dont see what its going to provide us with. You say it indicates self awareness, but isnt the entire questionnaire about self awareness? Self aware people will offer very detailed answers about who they are/how they are/what they do etc, while people who are less self aware will be vague. But that will be obvious from how they approach the rest of the questionnaire, wont it?


It points to a different dimension of self-awareness. 

Religion, politics, and current issues are a certain kind of overlay around a person, that color their view of themselves. The more entrenched in a view they are, the more this will tend to happen, and the less it will naturally come to awareness that it is doing so.

This question forces the issue to come to the surface, gets the person to consider the effect that these things are actually having on their disposition. It creates distance between the person and their issue. The better they can do this, the more self-awareness they are showing, about how they might be affected by these things. This is a valid psychological evaluation in other contexts too - you can differentiate, for instance, between OCD patients who show awareness that their condition is irrationally founded, and OCD patients who don't.

Edit for addition: I forgot to address the question of why 7 is included in that question set. For completeness, mostly - it doesn't make sense to leave out a triad in the specific questions. The more directly we ask about the types, the more clearly we can see what their fixations might be.


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## Loveternity (Aug 3, 2011)

@Flatlander, I believe that as objective as one can try to be, there will still be _some_ bias coming from the typer. That would be more likely with religious/political beliefs and although I agree that it isn't a problem with the form, it could make it harder for the typer to remain objective.

But like I said, that would probably not happen often. I'm just pointing out it could become a problem in some cases, but perhaps I'm over-thinking this. =P


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

Loveternity said:


> @_Flatlander_, I believe that as objective as one can try to be, there will still be _some_ bias coming from the typer. That would be more likely with religious/political beliefs and although I agree that it isn't a problem with the form, it could make it harder for the typer to remain objective.


That's another good reason for having the question at the end. It colors the typer's view less while he is actually looking at the meat of the questionnaire, but allows him to have a context to compare his conclusions against to check if they are accurate. A better understanding lends itself to a better typing.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

@Wake


Treebob took the separations down for this thread so it could be discussed. Im sure you could have asked beforehand for it to be done just this once to iron the issue out (since you knew it would garner disagreement) rather than just having the questionnaire stickied and then asking for the other to be taken down. Your behavior thus far has given off the impression that you meant to implement this questionnaire because you wanted it, regardless as to what anyone else wanted. That is what is off putting to so many people. 

Also, I'm fairly sure that none of the admins here are enneagram gurus. Are they certified to teach the enneagram? If not, then why does their opinion on which questionnaire is better carry more weight than us "average joes"? Surely we've all ready the same material.


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

Chipps said:


> @_Wake_
> Treebob took the separations down for this thread so it could be discussed. Im sure you could have asked beforehand for it to be done just this once to iron the issue out (since you knew it would garner disagreement) rather than just having the questionnaire stickied and then asking for the other to be taken down. Your behavior thus far has given off the impression that you meant to implement this questionnaire because you wanted it, regardless as to what anyone else wanted. That is what is off putting to so many people.


Why should I have faith in people that weren't willing to talk to me up to that point to be objective enough to accept my ideas? They follow no guidelines, and don't stay neutral with all parties to be entrusted. All of the admins understood this issue that dealt with me and have helped me work through it, now lets not have stuff like this happen anymore.






> Also, I'm fairly sure that none of the admins here are enneagram gurus. Are they certified to teach the enneagram? If not, then why does their opinion on which questionnaire is better carry more weight than us "average joes"? Surely we've all ready the same material.


 @_timeless_ is, he posted his articles and does a ton of work on the Enneagram quiz. The creators of the original are not elites, they're a combined effort and they released their questionnaire as something which may be edited, but there are problems with their control, as I had already mentioned. Is this response about control or is it about the Enneagram questionnaire? That is the question.

The forums are just built on knowledge, and who controls changes is not what should matter, but how to build a better questionnaire in the end. My situation highlights a big reason why our past setup for change was problematic for all to edit to make a better questionnaire.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

I have not participated in developing any of these but perhaps that helps me while I attempt to be objective and honest. As some of you must know, I have experience from filling these questionnaires (ha-ha) so I thought I might comment on this one. Especially because I wanted to try filling this one just out of curiosity and for myself only the day it was posted and I even finished it.

I'm not willing to take any sides in this subject, I approve the original questionnaire _and_ the people who made it very much. I'll just comment on this new one.


The explanations by @_Flatlander_ will be in smaller font in the end of the quotes.



> *Prerequisites*
> 
> What age range are you in?
> 
> A vague question, not inherently asking the typee for too much information, but trying to get some insight into their approximate stage of development in life.


Definitely a valuable question IMO. If only we could estimate individual growth level too... 






> Any disorders or conditions we should know about?
> 
> A question to firmly separate the issue, put it on the table as something to take into consideration when reading the person’s responses. It may, in the end, serve to point away from a given type.


Also this seems valuable and potentially useful. Although personally I might not tell even if you should know. It can be _too_ personal and I just wonder whether you get what you want.




> *Main Questions*
> 
> 1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.
> 
> A somewhat vague question, designed to draw out the person’s motivations. It offers both a sense of deeper purpose than the original (“What do you think your life is about?” speaks more broadly than “What do you look for?”) and offers a few specific options to start the typee off in their thinking.


I actually liked the way this was specified. It was much easier to reply to it.




> 2. What were you like as a kid?
> 
> Youth is a very strong foundation for a lot of the aspects of your ensuing life, and hence it is useful to get a fuller picture of a person. The Riso-Hudson theory that Enneagram types arise in youth from certain patterns is a sound possibility, so it seems like useful information to have in considering a person’s type.
> 
> Like with everything else, other elements of the answer to this question may also prove informative.


This is an excellent question. Development affects personality and that's great but as a kid, one is somehow in a more original state IMO  

However, the problem with this question can be the perspective. How honest and objective can one be? But then again, that's true in every other question too.




> 3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?
> 
> Childhood patterns again, and general considerations that may lead to further information for typing. To children, parents are authority figures, so how you react or interact can be telling.


This can very well be telling, I'd expect different Enneagram types to reply accordingly. Definitely useful and interesting question.




> 4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?
> 
> The ordering of these two was altered. Shifting from the positive to the negative, rather than the other way around, seems like an important change to avoid the typee’s self-envisionment becoming clouded by emotional bias.


While filling the questionnaire, I didn't notice any difference. But _that_ doesn't have to mean there wouldn't be a reason to alter the original one  I can easily accept your reasoning for that.




> 5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?
> 
> An expansion on the fears question to include a reference back to childhood, because that is where many Enneagram theorists hypothesize that the central fear(s) began. The second question continues this line of questioning into the long-term, as is done, yet again, in theory.




Again, valuable question IMO. But I just might have had problems with recognizing and remembering the most meaningful ones and I couldn't even tell if I actually had  _Damn, now I revealed how all those wannabe Sixes could reply to this one -.-_




> The next three questions deal with the different triads. In the original questionnaire, the equivalent of question 6 represents the image triad, but the gut and head did not seem represented in such an individual way. The addition of questions to do this seemed pertinent, and the format has been varied in order to keep the typee’s interest or put less strain on them.


OK.




> 6. a.) How do you see yourself?
> b.) How do you want others to see you?
> 
> The original ordering of these questions was reversed. We changed it to remove possible bias from describing your idealized vision first.


Again, I didn't _notice_ any difference but I can easily accept your reasoning here 




> c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?
> 
> An addition by Timeless that was deemed a good addition here in the flow of the questionnaire. The ordering of these questions suggests a progression from inward to outward focus.


I liked this question and not only because it was a new one. Dislike provokes, some more than other. I can easily imagine how this reactivity, its extent and the reasons for it could reveal something worthy. Also how certain types would be delighted to express what they dislike and how certain types might be more uncomfortable and unable to do it.




> 7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
> a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
> b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you
> c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.
> ...


Thanks for the information here, slightly embarrassing but while I filled the questionnaire, I missed realizing this question was about the instinctive triad fixations xD 

Personally, I had great difficulties to put those in order but I guess that tells more about myself than the question  The question seems to be very specific and provides a very simple (_too_ simple?) way to differentiate those. At least if one is honest and has enough self-awareness. And I could easily imagine the risk to choose the option one _wishes_ to be like instead of the option one actually is like. Do I sound like I didn't like this question? Well, I actually did  But I'm not _completely_ sure it will be as useful as it seems.





> 8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?
> 
> While it was left vague enough that other types may also offer useful input, this is clearly a question to provoke a thinking triad core. The character of the response will help in type differentiation.


Ha-ha, my favorite question  Yes, so vague. But intriguing. All the possibilities people can write here... Sure, this will tell something about the person. But how much it will tell about Enneagram? It could be useful to recognize the triads and head type preferences, I agree with you. To know just how valuable this question will be, I'd have to see how people reply to this one.




> 10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
> a.) anger
> b.) shame
> c.) anxiety
> ...


I prefer the new version only because it made at least me focus better. I also understand and approve your reasoning 




> 11. Describe how you respond to the following:
> a.) stress
> b.) negative unexpected change
> c.) conflict
> ...


Thanks for that. It specifies the question well. How people react to _negative_ unexpected change is valuable information. Change as such is too easy to deal with since it could be positive too.




> 12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?
> b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?
> c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?
> 
> ...


I actually liked these questions very much. It was easier to reply since the questions were so much more specific. IMO. Also, the first question about the groups helps to recognize the instinctual variants. At least my own reply revealed mainly that perspective.




> 13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?
> 
> Enneagram type definitively colors how you view the world, and the realm of people is important to everyone. This question was deemed important enough to put in the regular section, instead of left outside as extra information.


Personally, I hate this kind of questions xD How do I know without knowing what other people see? Even if I asked, I wouldn't know since why would they tell in the first place? At least I wouldn't xD This can be a useful question though, _I_ just didn't like it.

FYI, I replied _"Chemistry? Personality issues, why they behave the way they do etc. Masks and inner beauty, something to be protected."_ And I don't think it tells awfully much about my Enneagram type. Other people might be able to reply better though.




> 14. Comment on your relationship with trust.
> 
> This was also in the original questionnaire as an optional question. However, it is invaluable for figuring out how a person perceives himself and others, and evaluates the possibility for conflict with the external world, and on what level. It can get at a high or low level of doubt, insecurity, and so forth. This point was not directly touched on by any other question, so we felt it important to include here.


Ha-ha, this is a great question (who wrote about illusions? ). I agree with your reasons to keep it.

However, the problem is that people unaware of their trust issues won't necessarily produce productive replies. At least I tried to convince myself that I have no trust issues, it was easier to do that than accept the insecurity. I just wonder what kind of question about trust would have made _me_ realize it... After all, the purpose is self-awareness. 

I wonder whether additional questions "What does trust mean to you?" and/or "What do you trust and why?" would be useful. 




> 15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?
> 
> A moment for self-reflection, drawing the person back from the hypothetical into the context surrounding their life. This was posed at the end of the questionnaire so that it doesn’t bias what they wrote beforehand. It can point to the person’s level and kind of self-awareness, and provide disambiguating information.


Thanks for the clarification, while I filled the questionnaire I was curious about the reasoning to have this question there. Partly I understand, partly I don't... Perhaps this will be useful question even when I cannot be sure of it now. What I'd like to ask is how the religious and/or political beliefs have been formed in the first place and what do they mean to the person but that's just me.




> Optional Question (due to personal nature)
> 
> Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.
> 
> Left optional because of the intimate nature of the question.


OK. It's good that this is optional, I might indeed skip this due to the personal nature.




> So, if they feel like answering more, they can proceed to the extra questions, which have their use:
> 
> Extra Questions
> 
> ...


I like the thought to compare type specific things and have the typee to put them in order. However, I wonder whether _"To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance"_ is the best phrase to catch core Sixes. Personal example: Did I do it from the beginning I got here PerC? Yes. Did I recognize it by myself? No. Did I admit it when someone said it? No, not really. It took a lot of time to admit such a thing. Why? Because I _hate_ that in myself. Being weak and insecure feels like the worst thing ever, it's not a secure place to be in. Until you can deal with it. IMO. That whole progress is called growth. And one who fills the questionnaire may not be in that place yet. Some are, some are not.

Feel free to disagree with me but IMO Sixes are the most challenging ones to type. Sure, not all of them are but based on my little experience here I think the most challenging ones have been Sixes. Why then? This is just IMO but trust is one thing, whom to trust really? Who is the Enneagram expert, is Enneagram even reasonable system to investigate or "believe in"? What if that, what if this. Reactivity is another thing, people react. You say I'm a Six, the one who desires security and whose vice is fear? _WTF?!?!?!!? (noticed the reaction?)_ Even the labels Enneagram experts often use, the loyalist or whatever, are just so annoying. Like I should (sure, no-one says I should, it's just me who thinks so) be the loyalist when I can perfectly well be something else too. 

Anyway, to avoid getting off the topic, I would like to ask how do you, questionnaire and Enneagram expert people of PerC, think that it would be easier for both typees and typers to recognize core 6s? Has that been considered while planning the questionnaires? Oh, no pressure xD

Back to the questionnaire, instead of using _"To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance" _could you use for example _"To question things and react to possible threats"_ or, if you want to use the original one, _"To cyclically become indecisive and seek ways for reassurance"_? My reasoning for these alterations is that Nines can be indecisive too but questioning is more like a Six thing. Sixes are reactive people and react to threats they observe. And seeking others for reassurance, do 6w5s even do that much? Would it be better to use "ways" instead of "others"? "Information" would be more like 6w5 thing.



Just my thoughts, feel free to comment.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@zallla
Your critique of the last question is quite pertinent. It's among the things I am working on. I know most 6s, esp. cp6s, would object to the wording of that statement.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Boss said:


> @_zallla_
> Your critique of the last question is quite pertinent. It's among the things I am working on. I know most 6s, esp. cp6s, would object to the wording of that statement.


I agree and yet I couldn't come up with anything more useful  I hope and believe that someone can


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

zallla said:


> I have not participated in developing any of these but perhaps that helps me while I attempt to be objective and honest. As some of you must know, I have experience from filling these questionnaires (ha-ha) so I thought I might comment on this one. Especially because I wanted to try filling this one just out of curiosity and for myself only the day it was posted and I even finished it.
> 
> I'm not willing to take any sides in this subject, I approve the original questionnaire _and_ the people who made it very much. I'll just comment on this new one.


I appreciate that you took the time to test it. Looking over your feedback, this is definitely helpful.



> > What age range are you in?
> 
> 
> Definitely a valuable question IMO. If only we could estimate individual growth level too...


Yeah, it's hard to ask about that directly. You can't really put it on a quantity scale, you can only gauge it by how a person seems to be and act.







> > Any disorders or conditions we should know about?
> 
> 
> Also this seems valuable and potentially useful. Although personally I might not tell even if you should know. It can be _too_ personal and I just wonder whether you get what you want.


The wording leaves it open for you not to tell, if you don't think it pertinent...or consider it too personal. 




> > 1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.
> 
> 
> I actually liked the way this was specified. It was much easier to reply to it.


Thank you. 




> > 2. What were you like as a kid?
> 
> 
> This is an excellent question. Development affects personality and that's great but as a kid, one is somehow in a more original state IMO
> ...


Actually, the degree of objectivity can also be telling here. It's been said before, for example, that 9s tend to idealize their childhood - this kind of thing is a tendency we can look for as a _potential_ tell toward type.






> > Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?
> 
> 
> This can very well be telling, I'd expect different Enneagram types to reply accordingly. Definitely useful and interesting question.
> ...



Haha, it's okay. Clarifying things in this thread - bringing them to light - is important.

The question is indeed a bit of a challenge, and might take some people really significant introspection. How you choose to answer it can be a tell in different directions, too. 





> > The next three questions deal with the different triads. In the original questionnaire, the equivalent of question 6 represents the image triad, but the gut and head did not seem represented in such an individual way. The addition of questions to do this seemed pertinent, and the format has been varied in order to keep the typee’s interest or put less strain on them.
> 
> 
> OK.
> ...









> > 7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
> > a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
> > b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you
> > c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.
> ...


Use will always be the test of a questionnaire, yes. At the moment it's all in theory.

Choosing the option one wishes to be like points me toward the idea of an image type, or some temptation in that direction. Hopefully we would be able to use the rest of the questionnaire and gauge their reaction here to distinguish whether this is the case.






> > 8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?
> 
> 
> Ha-ha, my favorite question  Yes, so vague. But intriguing. All the possibilities people can write here... Sure, this will tell something about the person. But how much it will tell about Enneagram? It could be useful to recognize the triads and head type preferences, I agree with you. To know just how valuable this question will be, I'd have to see how people reply to this one.


There are a few test runs of the questionnaire up in the typing forum already. Probably some people have more telling answers than others, but it has the potential to be valuable.






> > Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
> > a.) anger
> > b.) shame
> > c.) anxiety
> ...


I think you are correct to point out the objectivity problem with this one, and so perhaps "you think" should be added in the following way:

"What do you see or notice in others that you think most people don't?"

Maybe adding on an adjunct of "Why do you look for these things?" would be helpful.






> > 14. Comment on your relationship with trust.
> 
> 
> Ha-ha, this is a great question (who wrote about illusions? ). I agree with your reasons to keep it.
> ...


Hopefully the typee is being honest, though yes, it can be hard for some to want to accept what they find upon introspection.



> I wonder whether additional questions "What does trust mean to you?" and/or "What do you trust and why?" would be useful.


Hmm... Noted for consideration. I have to think about that one.






> > 15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?
> 
> 
> Thanks for the clarification, while I filled the questionnaire I was curious about the reasoning to have this question there. Partly I understand, partly I don't... Perhaps this will be useful question even when I cannot be sure of it now. What I'd like to ask is how the religious and/or political beliefs have been formed in the first place and what do they mean to the person but that's just me.


The question can get at these issues also, especially the second one, indirectly. The questions before it are very much tied into personal makeup, and the person is asked to reflect on what relationship their affiliations and so forth had on their responses here. Maybe adding onto the question with "If so, how?" would open it up to the kind of consideration you seek.





> OK. It's good that this is optional, I might indeed skip this due to the personal nature.


It seems to me like most typees do.






> I like the thought to compare type specific things and have the typee to put them in order. However, I wonder whether _"To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance"_ is the best phrase to catch core Sixes. Personal example: Did I do it from the beginning I got here PerC? Yes. Did I recognize it by myself? No. Did I admit it when someone said it? No, not really. It took a lot of time to admit such a thing. Why? Because I _hate_ that in myself. Being weak and insecure feels like the worst thing ever, it's not a secure place to be in. Until you can deal with it. IMO. That whole progress is called growth. And one who fills the questionnaire may not be in that place yet. Some are, some are not.
> 
> Feel free to disagree with me but IMO Sixes are the most challenging ones to type. Sure, not all of them are but based on my little experience here I think the most challenging ones have been Sixes. Why then? This is just IMO but trust is one thing, whom to trust really? Who is the Enneagram expert, is Enneagram even reasonable system to investigate or "believe in"? What if that, what if this. Reactivity is another thing, people react. You say I'm a Six, the one who desires security and whose vice is fear? _WTF?!?!?!!? (noticed the reaction?)_ Even the labels Enneagram experts often use, the loyalist or whatever, are just so annoying. Like I should (sure, no-one says I should, it's just me who thinks so) be the loyalist when I can perfectly well be something else too.
> 
> ...



This all is an excellent point.

I wondered if someone would bring up good options on this one, because I know it's difficult to represent the Six. I think both your options are valid, and at the moment I somewhat favor the idea of "To question things and react to possible threats". So, a CP6 might not associate themselves with the first part of that statement, so I propose making the "and" into an "and/or": "To question things and/or react to possible threats."




> Just my thoughts, feel free to comment.


I must say, thank you very much. You have given me some solid information and opinions to work with; your input has been quite helpful.


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> I appreciate that you took the time to test it. Looking over your feedback, this is definitely helpful.


Thanks, I appreciate _that_  




> The wording leaves it open for you not to tell, if you don't think it pertinent...or consider it too personal.


Yeah, it was nicely put  




> Actually, the degree of objectivity can also be telling here. It's been said before, for example, that 9s tend to idealize their childhood - this kind of thing is a tendency we can look for as a _potential_ tell toward type.





> The question is indeed a bit of a challenge, and might take some people really significant introspection. How you choose to answer it can be a tell in different directions, too.


Good points, definitely!




> Choosing the option one wishes to be like points me toward the idea of an image type, or some temptation in that direction. Hopefully we would be able to use the rest of the questionnaire and gauge their reaction here to distinguish whether this is the case.



True 





> There are a few test runs of the questionnaire up in the typing forum already. Probably some people have more telling answers than others, but it has the potential to be valuable.


That seems to be the case with other questionnaires too, some people reply "better" than others. But your version of this questionnaire seems really valuable to me. If you and @Wake like, I can send you mine filled, for research purpose or just out of curiosity 





> I think you are correct to point out the objectivity problem with this one, and so perhaps "you think" should be added in the following way:
> 
> "What do you see or notice in others that you think most people don't?"
> Maybe adding on an adjunct of "Why do you look for these things?" would be helpful.


 I like that, the first one contains an assumption and might work  The latter is potentially insightful. To be honest, I might not know right away why but it would be worth of considering. The deeper, the better, I reckon 





> The question can get at these issues also, especially the second one, indirectly. The questions before it are very much tied into personal makeup, and the person is asked to reflect on what relationship their affiliations and so forth had on their responses here.


OK.




> I wondered if someone would bring up good options on this one, because I know it's difficult to represent the Six. I think both your options are valid, and at the moment I somewhat favor the idea of "To question things and react to possible threats". So, a CP6 might not associate themselves with the first part of that statement, so I propose making the "and" into an "and/or": "To question things and/or react to possible threats."


The last one seems good to me but I'm only one Six. I hope other Sixes would comment on this 




> I must say, thank you very much. You have given me some solid information and opinions to work with; your input has been quite helpful.


Thank you, I'm happy that my comments were taken like that  I tried not to hurt anyone but still say what I think. The original questionnaire developers did great work and so did you while developing it further


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

zallla said:


> That seems to be the case with other questionnaires too, some people reply "better" than others. But your version of this questionnaire seems really valuable to me. If you and @_Wake_ like, I can send you mine filled, for research purpose or just out of curiosity


I would really appreciate this, if you are willing to share.



> I like that, the first one contains an assumption and might work  The latter is potentially insightful. To be honest, I might not know right away why but it would be worth of considering. The deeper, the better, I reckon


I foresee novels. 




> The last one seems good to me but I'm only one Six. I hope other Sixes would comment on this


I'll be watching for it. I kind of hope they read through the thread if so, to find the proposed change to comment on it as well.

I think I'll keep a log of proposed changes in the front post, or periodically post an update with them when the post becomes locked to editing.



> Thank you, I'm happy that my comments were taken like that  I tried not to hurt anyone but still say what I think. The original questionnaire developers did great work and so did you while developing it further


Your concern is appreciated.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

I have seen so many interpretations of enneagram that I have lost count. I think everyone should come up with their own questionnaire.


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## Wake (Aug 31, 2009)

Promethea said:


> I have seen so many interpretations of enneagram that I have lost count. I think everyone should come up with their own questionnaire.


So, are you representing the staff having a change of heart about bringing people together to consider the new questionnaire?


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## zallla (Oct 11, 2011)

Flatlander said:


> I would really appreciate this, if you are willing to share.


 Sure, here  I don't mind it to be used for development purpose. I thought it best to start another thread for that though, even when it's not really a type-me-thread, I think I know my core for sure now 




> I foresee novels.


I see Ni-user  Did you take a look at my thread btw? There's the novel you were foreseeing! xD


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Boss said:


> @_zallla_
> Your critique of the last question is quite pertinent. It's among the things I am working on. I know most 6s, esp. cp6s, would object to the wording of that statement.


I third this. And it's less of an "_Oh, no, that can't possibly be me. EVARRR!!_" overreaction than it is an honest appraisal of my life. I really do tend to keep to myself; I don't experience any indecision that I may show as being a real problem. It's all in the wording. Unfortunately I don't have a better way to word it at this time; simply an observation.

I will add, @_Flatlander_, I quite like many of these improvements. I like the questions about childhood; when I wrote my big Type Me thread, I had to basically write my life story for several questions. I like that childhood receives mention in this new potential questionnaire, because I think the way an individual exists over time is highly relevant.

I also love...love..._love_ the question "What do you dislike most in others?" That's something I have very strong opinions about, and often wished were in the current questionnaire. It's gold. Keep it.

Edit: On second thought, maybe "To overthink" or "consider going back on something but then do it anyway" is a better way. I'm still trying to figure out how exactly this plays into my life and how best to word it, @Flatlander.


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

*subjectivity time!*

5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them? 

Personally I don't like this question. When I read childhood, I automatically turn my thoughts towards things that stayed within my childhood and that I've gotten over - like elevator doors, or going down steps, or bed wetting, or dying from diseases broadcasted on tv, or sleeping on my own ( I'd give a whole list like that. Not very helpful.)

Could you possibly reverse the order to what I fear now first, and then back to childhood?

--

Extra Questions - hmm, could be less vague...somehow? Or maybe they're good.
Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)

- To constantly push yourself to be “the best”
- To be without needs, well-intentioned
- To replace direct experience with concepts
- To have an extreme sense of personal moral obligation
- To think that fulfillment is somewhere else
First thought: What? I fulfill myself, and I can do it all right here on the internet. Going somewhere else? that's ridiculous. 
- To cyclically become indecisive and seek others for reassurance
Oh yes, all the time. How do I do this math question again? Old cp6 I knew would never do this, was more "I don't trust anyone but myself."
- To overuse imagination in searching for yourself
What does imagination mean here? imbuing yourself with imagined attributes / imagining you're someone else and trying to fit the mold to see if it clicks / imagining scenarios to test self reactions etc.
- To avoid conflicts and asserting yourself
- To consider yourself entirely self-sufficient


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

holyrockthrower said:


> I third this. And it's less of an "_Oh, no, that can't possibly be me. EVARRR!!_" overreaction than it is an honest appraisal of my life. I really do tend to keep to myself; I don't experience any indecision that I may show as being a real problem. It's all in the wording. Unfortunately I don't have a better way to word it at this time; simply an observation.
> 
> I will add, @_Flatlander_, I quite like many of these improvements. I like the questions about childhood; when I wrote my big Type Me thread, I had to basically write my life story for several questions. I like that childhood receives mention in this new potential questionnaire, because I think the way an individual exists over time is highly relevant.
> 
> ...


How do you feel about the revision @zallla and I worked out for that option? It's on the front page as "To question things and/or react to possible threats."


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

@_Jiktin_ - don't have much time this morning, will get back to you tonight or tomorrow the latest. Making this here as a note to do so.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Wake said:


> So, are you representing the staff having a change of heart about bringing people together to consider the new questionnaire?


I think you just inferred waaaayy too much that isn't really there from a joke.


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

If I may, I'd like to try and help. ^_^ 



> _7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).__a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
> b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you
> c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.
> _


The problem with this one is I think it would work but only if you say "WHY?" in addition to that. Otherwise you don't get to see the reasoning behind why somebody ranks these things the way they do. 



> _15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?_


Hmmm... this one is iffy, I've got to say. Our political and/or religious beliefs will always effect in what way we live and think, yes. But how does this shed light on the person's type if they simply follow that religious thing when they think they've simply found truth? I mean, are you trying to see the reasons why they believe this (for example: trying to see if they believe it simply because it makes them feel secure, or follows certain political party because it makes them feel secure, etc)? Or are you simply trying to separate in your mind the answers that could just be influenced by what personal beliefs they hold? 

What do you mean by self-reflection and "drawing back from the hypothetical into the context surrounding their life"? 

I suppose I just can't see what you're trying to get at here.

EDIT -- Just read some more reasoning to as why question 15 was included. So essentially it is trying to see how aware a person is as to how influenced they are by their beliefs and how that probably effected their questionnaire answers? In that case I do like it. It just seems at first glance to be kind of odd and to me it would be hard to figure out what you're necessarily asking in the first place, even though it looks very pointed. It's probably just me but my brain jumps to assumptions after that and that would colour how I answer that question. I don't know, though, if that's just me or whether or not rewording it would be good...


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## timeless (Mar 20, 2010)

It's preferable to have just one questionnaire, so I really appreciate this discussion. I'm sure that whatever is produced, it will be eligible for approval by the Timeless Institute for Advanced Enneagram Studies. 



holyrockthrower said:


> I also love...love..._love_ the question "What do you dislike most in others?" That's something I have very strong opinions about, and often wished were in the current questionnaire. It's gold. Keep it.


Booyah I think that was my addition.


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## Paradigm (Feb 16, 2010)

My goal is to look at the pros and cons of each question, to see how they're going to be interpreted. To aid this goal, I'm going to be using a couple personal anecdotes to point out flaws. (This does not make it “less objective” and others have already done this.)
My assumptions are of breadth, that we who make this form are not going to be the only ones who uses it. Therefore, I'm not going to take for granted that either typer nor typee will do their best to be unbiased. I'm not going to advocate for asking questions which could often mislead both parties.



> Prerequisites
> What age range are you in?
> Any disorders or conditions we should know about?


Basic questions which, indeed, should be on the questionnaire. 



> 1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.


The extra sentence does little to help clarify, IMO. It was, like many other of our questions, supposed to be open-ended, so that part of where they went with it could provide the typer with information. _However_, this was one of the more awkwardly-worded questions in ours, so yes, it could do with improvement. I don't think this is quite it, though.
Possibly a mesh with our #2: "What do you hope to accomplish in your life?"



> 2. What were you like as a kid?


This is a question I would save for “tough cases.” For most people I think it might complicate matters. For example, I would answer this saying I was the quiet one alone in the library... Does that make me a 5? Does having panic attacks from age 8 make me a 6? (The answer to both questions is no, btw.)
Could be improved upon by asking if anything major happened in childhood. Like I had multiple health problems and was socially shunned, which led to my maladaptive behaviors. There are a lot of people who come to PerC who also have traumatic backstories but are unable to see that they were just circumstances.



> 3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?


Has, in my opinion, little to do with type (and I realize theory claims it does). If people feel that damaged by their parents, they'd probably mention it elsewhere, such as the optional question. 
Even if it does have to do with type, I don't think that _any_ of us (nor anyone upcoming) are qualified to examine the complexities of parent-child relationships. Too many people still assume that mother=nurturing and father=protective. That can be extremely misleading, and will be highly confusing when the lines blur.
In short, I don't like the implications of this question and I think it should be removed rather than trying to shoehorn this part of the theory in.



> 4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?


Decent, but I think it's too similar to #6. And I can foresee a bit of bias occurring. On the other hand, I'm not opposed to leaving it in. (And as I mention later, I think it's closer to a gut fix question.)



> 5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?


I have issues with limiting it to childhood phobias. Maybe a rephrasing such as, “Did you grow up with any childhood fears, and do you have any major fears today?” (Not that exact rewording, no.)
While I think this is an important question, I've noticed people have issues with realizing what we're asking for: deep-set existential fears. I'm not sure how to clarify our meaning, though, since few have an accurate idea of what existential fears are, let alone what theirs are.



> 6. a.) How do you see yourself?
> b.) How do you want others to see you?
> c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?


At first glance, having c) on there is slightly awkward but by no means horrible; I think it's useful. I always thought this should be “How do others see you,” but I realize the nuances here, so it's a minor niggle.
Really, I never thought of this as an “image question.” Few people are going to answer this from their heart fix's perspective; they're going to rely on their core type's ego. A 1 will look Good, a 6 will look vigilant, a 9 will look peaceful, etc.. (Ignore the stereotypes, I'm making a point.)



> 7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least).
> a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others.
> b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you
> c.) Decide what is right for the betterment of something or someone else.


This question doesn't fit in with any of the others and is more awkward than useful. Perhaps a complete rework if you want to continue your triad pattern. To me, #4 is more “gut fixy” than this is, so I'd like something similar to that. I asked someone else in an attempt to figure out a gut fix: “How do you view morals? What do you think of justice and vengeance?”



> 8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?


Could provide some information. I can foresee bias occurring here, like only 5s would be curious, or only 7s would care about the future. Can't say it's enough to take the question out, though.



> 9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?


This one is either useful or it's not at all. Depressed typees have the biggest issue with this question, IIRC. Keep it, I guess.



> 10. Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
> a.) anger
> b.) shame
> c.) anxiety


I personally don't think the rewording was needed, as, again, it was meant to be open-ended to give us more information. I think “how they feel or how you react” is really just a longer way and too-specific of saying “how do you experience,” though the addition of “what might make you feel” is good. 



> 11. Describe how you respond to the following:
> a.) stress
> b.) negative unexpected change
> c.) conflict


I don't think the “negative” is needed and I don't think hearing about positive change is a “waste of time.” Let people decide what to talk about themselves.



> 12. a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?
> b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?
> c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?


I prefer ours, since this is not near as open-ended--which, again, was the point. And again, I say let people decide for themselves, as it's telling. (Describe your orientation to: a) authority; b) power. How do you respond to these?)
A) is a decent question but I'm worried about typer's bias. Especially since I can see people reading the response and going, “Well he likes being the leader, not the follower, so he's definitely not a 6.” Yes, it happens to other types too, but 6s are the most common scapegoats (and the type I have the most knowledge of).



> 13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't?


This is one of the questions I don't particularly have an opinion on, admittedly. 



> 14. Comment on your relationship with trust.


Useful, but could be done away with if we had to... Though certainly not my first choice. Or could even be merged with #12.



> 15. Briefly: What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire?


Somewhat superfluous IMO, but this could be part of the prerequisites if people wanted, or part of the optionals since it's personal. I understand why you'd want to know, but I think most people would mention this regardless of a dedicated question (especially religion).
And while proper typers shouldn't be influenced, it could easily cause bias. @Flatlander, you said it's not a flaw of the form, which I would agree with if I could trust that only a few people would try to use this to type others. I can't do that; I foresee that, basically, random people off the street will use this, too.



> Optional Question (due to personal nature)
> Discuss an event that has impacted your life significantly; more importantly, how you responded to it.


Could take over or be merged with the improvement of the childhood question, or even used as a supplement to it. Though Important Things happen in adulthood, too.



> Extra Questions
> Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)
> - To constantly push yourself to be “the best”
> - To be without needs, well-intentioned
> ...


There are so many things wrong with this... For a start, most people can't tell the truth about themselves (for various reasons); this makes other types look better than others even if the answerer can't tell which is which. But most typees have a very basic (though flawed) understanding of each type. I vote to just cut this out rather than have people even attempt to do this. It's not worth working on to get “just right” when we're just going to encounter bias either way.



> What's something you are: a.) thankful you have b.) wish you could have? Why?


Useful. This was, I think, intended as a instinctual question.

As a sidenote/nitpick, I don't see the difference between “optional” and “extra,” but if you really want it that way, sure.

---

I also suggest some reordering. Have the childhood-oriented questions first, then the adulthood/present ones. Right now it's a little too disjointed and jumpy. But this is more of a "down the line" thing to work on, nothing important right now.

Though, as probably guessed, I'm not a fan of looking at childhood for an accurate typing. Differing opinions, I suppose. Just I've known a lot of people who don't follow their supposed "childhood pattern" that obviously, myself included. Or people who just don't remember it well enough.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

Flatlander said:


> How do you feel about the revision @_zallla_ and I worked out for that option? It's on the front page as "To question things and/or react to possible threats."


Sounds ok to me. I'm not sure there is any _right_ question, though. There are a lot of sides to type 6, and each one is going to elicit a different response from different types of 6s.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

OK, I actually filled this puppy out for myself last night to see what it would look like. I hope you can use my feedback.



> *Prerequisites**
> 
> What age range are you in?
> Any disorders or conditions we should know about?*


Good idea. I know some like @Steel Magnolia have repeatedly stated that certain psychiatric disorders can cause mistypes (e.g., anxiety disorder = type 6, OCD = type 1). Given that we don't know if there is indeed a connection between personality type and these disorders, I think this is a key revision.



> *Main Questions**
> 
> 1. What do you think your life is about? What drives you in life? This can be something like a goal or a purpose, or anything else that comes to mind.*


I like the wording of this slightly better than the first one.



> _2. What were you like as a kid?
> __3. Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?_


I already mentioned that I like these questions. I think they should be kept here. I disagree with you on this one, @Paradigm--I filled out #2 with my personality as a kid; #3 pulled up entirely different issues, including the structure and politics of my family relations. My only reservation is that I'm not sure they're indicative of my type (I strongly identify with type 1 and type 7 childhood parental orientations). I think this topic is highly open to subjective interpretation.



> _4. What values are important to you? What do you hope to avoid doing or being?
> _


It's OK. 



> _
> 5. Aside from phobias, are there any fears that characterized your childhood? Have they continued into the present day, or not, and if not, how have you dealt with them?
> _


I like this; I've already said the reason why. It shows the growth of the personality over time.




> _
> 6. a.) How do you see yourself?_
> _b.) How do you want others to see you?
> __c.) What do you dislike the most in other people?
> _


I already mentioned this as well; I'll add that I like the question "_how do others see you_" instead of "how do you _want_ others to see you". I don't specifically know how I want others to see me, but if you asked me "How DO others see you?" I'd give a very different answer, and one which is probably more revealing of my fixation.



> _
> 7. Which habit do you most automatically act on? Rank the following habits from most to least automatic, on a scale of 1 (most) to 3 (least)._
> _a.) Work for personal gain with more concern for self than for others._
> _b.) Strive for a sense of tranquility in yourself and the world around you_
> ...


_
_I'm a 1-fixer, yet I'd still rank a first and c last. I don't know how necessary it is to the overall assessment. It's not very open-ended, and even seems a bit leading. I think it's better to let typees speak for themselves.



> _
> 8. Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?
> _


This is also an interesting question, although it's indicative of cognitive functions as much as enneagram type. My own response looked more "Ne" than 6ish.



> _
> 9.What makes you feel your best? What makes you feel your worst?
> _


It's OK. I don't personally like the question, but I see its value. 

_




Let's talk about emotions. Explain what might make you feel the following, how they feel to you or how you react to the emotion:
a.) anger
b.) shame
c.) anxiety
_


It's OK. 



> _Describe how you respond to the following: _
> _a.) stress _
> _b.) negative unexpected change_
> _c.) conflict
> _


Good to specify "negative" change...although I think leaving it open-ended is also indicative of type. Some people look upon change as inherently more negative or positive. 



> _
> a.) What kind of role are you naturally inclined to take in a group? Why?_
> _b.) If put in power, how do you behave? Why?_
> _c.) Do you tend to struggle with others who have authority over you? Why?
> _


I think this one's really interesting. No one has ever asked me about that before in relation to the enneagram. I'm not sure how much my answers are indicative of my type, but I can only speak for me. I would keep this one in--it reveals a side of the personality that is based on one's actual past experience. For me, it's a little easier to talk about this stuff in depth than to launch broad-based philosophical treatises about "anger" or "what I was like as a child". So definitely keep this revision.



> _
> 13. What do you see or notice in others that most people don't? _ _Why do you look for these things?__
> _


I have strong opinions on this one. The problem with the second question is that "noticing" is a subconscious process where as "looking for" is very conscious. You should specify if we're looking at instinct or something else. I answered the question according to "noticing", but if you asked me about "looking for" you'd get a very different answer.



> _
> 14. Comment on your relationship with trust.
> _


Despite me being a 6, trust isn't really part of my daily experience. I don't interact much with other humans, and I don't find myself overly mistrustful of them in general. It's a good question to feel out the typee's stance towards others, though.



> _
> 15. Briefly:__What religious and/or political beliefs do you have? *Are there any pressing issues or concerns in your life right now? Do you think they influenced your responses in this questionnaire? *_


Some have expressed disagreement with this one, and I can understand why. I'm personally in favor of this, as long as typers use the information correctly. I agree, it's a useful sounding board for seeing how rigidly people adhere to their worldview and how much they are entrenched in their respective mindsets. I know for a fact that _my_ current situation is influencing how I see the world, and I wished there were some way to communicate that in earlier threads.
_
_


> _Which of the following temptations do you find yourself acting upon the most? (And briefly state why)_
> 
> _- To constantly push yourself to be “the best”_
> _- To be without needs, well-intentioned_
> ...


I thought this section was, if nothing else, fun. I don't think we can draw any conclusions from it, though. I personally rank 3, 8, 7, and 4 as the highest and 2 and 6 as lowest. Each fixation is infinitely more complex than one statement--you're gonna get strange answers on this one I think, because not everyone identifies with all aspects of their type.


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