# Caution: long confession of a dark INFP



## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Hey hey guys, been busy with assignments so can't reply much.



Chara said:


> How "dark" would you consider the subconscious 'instinct/character trait' of wishing/wanting to get rid of whatever it is you don't like, in order to achieve mind harmony depending on how actively that said annoyance affects you?


I don't think this is dark, this is something human as a gregarious animal learned to hide. 



HumanBeing said:


> @Grace_Kino
> 
> Welcome ghosty, I have to admit not reading everything. I'll let you know in on a little secret, everyone has a dark side :wink: From a distance it looks like you're trying to find your way in life, figure out who you are. I wish you the best, and apologies if I oversimplified, lol.


Hello Human What you said is true. I don't want to argue whether I am darker or sth like this, but I think want matters is what we believe and what we choose. *Vague answer detected beeeeeeeeep*



Neokortex said:


> Yeah, unreliable infrastructure, unreliable people around can be real stressors. And having to take care of your mom, oh crap, sounds like a divorce if not worse.
> 
> They do beat them up? DD Maybe these guys are just nice and not practice karate in return. D
> "I'm ain't afraid of no ghosts!," would a ghostbuster say, and it's what I also say. Sounds like you're in your emo phase. But emos are only dark in the outside. Completely harmless, bt.


Do you mean it sounds what happened is that my parents divorced? If so, this is what happened.

I guess I will just (not so) gladly admit that I in certain occasions will be afraid of ghosts too. I once visited a haunted house near my home alone, turned out the ceiling light in the stairs turned itself off and on (feels like motion detect actually), and the shadow of elderly slowly walking behind the frosted glass was kinda creepy, so I tried but failed to enter the haunted house again another night. Fear is an emotion still unfamiliar to me, yet I experienced more fear in my dreams. Am not just emooooo, I have a whole essay to explain how I relate myself with ghost.



Chara said:


> Example(For Misc): "Chara" who my username was based off from at the time I'm posing this is said to be an xNFP "damaged dysfunctional" with 6w5-4w5-1(or 8w9)/4w5-6w5-1(or 8w9) combo. Those quotes directed at them 'That same feeling of hope in your eyes(They had, the light side)' contrasted with the 'life lesson' of "In this world its kill or be killed afterall." Having both a very light and also very 'dark' sides to ourselves at the same time, can you relate to this?
> 
> Wish our lives and upbringing didn't have to suck so much. I hope I can see some compensation for what I've been through at the very least so my mind can be at rest.





Neokortex said:


> I can relate to that to a degree. But not to "dark" as in the first sentence I quoted from you. That rather sounds like an Enneagram 8 attitude. Instead of "killed or be killed" "live and let live" would be the motto of a 1w2. It's interesting to see some really vicious INFPs out there. ;DDD


I can relate to "Having both a very light and also very 'dark' sides to ourselves at the same time" too. One time feel like I want to save all the lost souls in this world, another time feel like I need to tell the world how terrible we can get. Curiously, I have the similar belief of "kill or be killed" before I turn dark as I am now, I don't remember why but possibly that was just a hasty belief.


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## Hero of Freedom (Nov 23, 2014)

@Grace_Kino My parent who I live with wouldn't let me step a foot into a 'haunted house' let alone just go anyway I like without authorization first, especially when it gets dark. I live in a very quiet suburban area which can get a little fishy at night though so its understandable? But major typo, meant to say "posting" in my example reply. Text also meant to be smaller originally.

Sometimes in this world we currently live in it does come to that kind of situation and its understandable unfortunately, I wish it could be better.

@Neokortex But yes if I were to 'lash out' honestly I would probably stop where I feel enough is enough. I believe in the implementation of retribution in justice situations/systems until the target has shown potential for redemption.


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## Vast Silence (Apr 23, 2014)

Ah another INFP that has embraced the void! Welcome! 
Your self-description post sounds very familiar to how I've developed. 

My favorite INFP character is definitely Sweeney Todd.

Maybe its that we crave closeness to others so much we seek any sort of emotional attachment, anger, hate, love, joy, it doesn't matter. Anything for that emotional fix. Maybe...


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Vast Silence said:


> Ah another INFP that has embraced the void! Welcome!
> Your self-description post sounds very familiar to how I've developed.
> 
> My favorite INFP character is definitely Sweeney Todd.
> ...


Agree. Most of the time people just come and go. Sometimes I feel sad I am not energetic enough to know the other people deeper, so I am often moving on alone. But if there's any incident that allows me to see a person deeper, I seek for any emotional attachment as you said, sometimes become too aggressive, then I detach again because I feel I am forcing that person.

I should definitely definitely watch the Sweeney Todd movie later


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Chara said:


> My parent who I live with wouldn't let me step a foot into a 'haunted house' let alone just go anyway I like without authorization first, especially when it gets dark. I live in a very quiet suburban area which can get a little fishy at night though so its understandable? But major typo, meant to say "posting" in my example reply. Text also meant to be smaller originally.
> 
> Sometimes in this world we currently live in it does come to that kind of situation and its understandable unfortunately, I wish it could be better.


Yeah understandable. We have to admit being cautious is always useful... Just can never ignore that curiosity! My mother would rather I go to the haunted house (which is actually rebuilt btw) then go out wearing shorts at night, even if the weather is hot :/


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Chara said:


> @Neokortex But yes if I were to 'lash out' honestly I would probably stop where I feel enough is enough. I believe in the implementation of retribution in justice situations/systems until the target has shown potential for redemption.


How do you relate to the Enneagram 8's "lust"? Gut-siness. The "I deserve to enjoy" and "I assert my will?"


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> Do you mean it sounds what happened is that my parents divorced? If so, this is what happened.
> 
> I guess I will just (not so) gladly admit that I in certain occasions will be afraid of ghosts too. I once visited a haunted house near my home alone, turned out the ceiling light in the stairs turned itself off and on (feels like motion detect actually), and the shadow of elderly slowly walking behind the frosted glass was kinda creepy, so I tried but failed to enter the haunted house again another night. Fear is an emotion still unfamiliar to me, yet I experienced more fear in my dreams. Am not just emooooo, I have a whole essay to explain how I relate myself with ghost.


So you cannot be scared, you mean? As in "fear is an unfamiliar emotion to" you? That's very... supernatural. DD Naaaa, you should really look into the emo style, especially the more aggressive emos. I'm sure there are some animes out there featuring characters like that. Do you have lust?


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## Hero of Freedom (Nov 23, 2014)

Neokortex said:


> How do you relate to the Enneagram 8's "lust"? Gut-siness. The "I deserve to enjoy" and "I assert my will?"


Its best described as "I want to be left in harmony to just do what I enjoy, but if somebody/something threatens that or my safety or of those who matter to me most I will destroy them?" Passively pursuing whatever I enjoy until something threatens that. 

It's like say if a cockroach, or mosquito freaks me out I will run away for safety to come back later, hating them with something for the job in order to kill it so it never bothers me again? Find a way to destroy cockroach nests quickly with least contact/effort needed(Such as nestbaits) and so on in the process if needed. That is why there are little to no bugs in my home.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Chara said:


> Its best described as "I want to be left in harmony to just do what I enjoy, but if somebody/something threatens that or my safety or of those who matter to me most I will destroy them?" Passively pursuing whatever I enjoy until something threatens that.
> 
> It's like say if a cockroach, or mosquito freaks me out I will run away for safety to come back later, hating them with something for the job in order to kill it so it never bothers me again? Find a way to destroy cockroach nests quickly with least contact/effort needed(Such as nestbaits) and so on in the process if needed. That is why there are little to no bugs in my home.


Uhuh. Do you also keep butcher knives? Naa, just kiddin'. How about the lust-thing. Do you eat, smoke, indulge in pleasures because you think it's the way of life? You just deserve it?


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## The Impossible Girl (Apr 10, 2017)

Hello. I found this post quite interesting to read (if not, enjoyable). I too would love to be a writer. As an INTJ, I have an excuse to desire the destruction of others... :exterminate:
You actually sound quite friendly to me. I have two INFP friends, but they're the sweetest things in the world (although they do sometimes joke about death, etc. - that may be my morbidity affecting them). You don't even want to know _what_ happened when I decided to express myself through writing... Let's just say I ended up with nine pages of what I call 'appendices' of the habits and lifestyle of an INTJ. Nice meeting you!


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

The Impossible Girl said:


> Hello. I found this post quite interesting to read (if not, enjoyable). I too would love to be a writer. As an INTJ, I have an excuse to desire the destruction of others... :exterminate:
> You actually sound quite friendly to me. I have two INFP friends, but they're the sweetest things in the world (although they do sometimes joke about death, etc. - that may be my morbidity affecting them). You don't even want to know _what_ happened when I decided to express myself through writing... Let's just say I ended up with nine pages of what I call 'appendices' of the habits and lifestyle of an INTJ. Nice meeting you!


Does your INTJ-ness also give you an excuse to be rude to/aggressive with others?


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## Hero of Freedom (Nov 23, 2014)

Neokortex said:


> Uhuh. Do you also keep butcher knives? Naa, just kiddin'. How about the lust-thing. Do you eat, smoke, indulge in pleasures because you think it's the way of life? You just deserve it?


Nope?


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## Endologic (Feb 14, 2015)

Chara said:


> Nope?


I'm surprised you didn't mention this incorporeal INFP:










I'm having format problems - he isn't showing up - but I think you get the point.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> So you cannot be scared, you mean? As in "fear is an unfamiliar emotion to" you? That's very... supernatural. DD Naaaa, you should really look into the emo style, especially the more aggressive emos. I'm sure there are some animes out there featuring characters like that. Do you have lust?


No, I just am not easily scared like some others. Horror games can scare me easier, but movies just can't, those suspense or eerie things are interesting instead of scary to me. Jump scares only works when I am not absent minded but not in focus either. But I will tense up when real life things seems creepy dangerous. I mean people around me tend to see me as fearless, so do I want them to see, and I haven't explore my fear as much as my sadness or other emotions.

Maybe it's how emo sounds negative to someone new to this term. But yeah I think I will find this style interesting  

Umm lust? What you said "eat, smoke, indulge in pleasures because you think it's the way of life? You just deserve it?", it sounds like gluttony of 7s too. I guess the answer is no for me. I do want more for things but usually it's information and ideas, for eating and other material pleasures, if I spend too much time on it I will feel guilty.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

The Impossible Girl said:


> Hello. I found this post quite interesting to read (if not, enjoyable). I too would love to be a writer. As an INTJ, I have an excuse to desire the destruction of others... :exterminate:
> You actually sound quite friendly to me. I have two INFP friends, but they're the sweetest things in the world (although they do sometimes joke about death, etc. - that may be my morbidity affecting them). You don't even want to know _what_ happened when I decided to express myself through writing... Let's just say I ended up with nine pages of what I call 'appendices' of the habits and lifestyle of an INTJ. Nice meeting you!


Nice to meet you

Yeah you can destroy as much as you want in writing XD I do want to know more about your writing. I haven't read about INTJs yet so I just have the stereotypical impression of INTJ mastermind/criminal, this actually makes me interested in knowing more about INTJs. Don't worry, INFPs (especially those with enneatype 4) are glad to discuss about death and other deep topics.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Chara said:


> Nope?


But you do consciously avoid the other question, I reckon?


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> No, I just am not easily scared like some others. Horror games can scare me easier, but movies just can't, those suspense or eerie things are interesting instead of scary to me. Jump scares only works when I am not absent minded but not in focus either. But I will tense up when real life things seems creepy dangerous. I mean people around me tend to see me as fearless, so do I want them to see, and I haven't explore my fear as much as my sadness or other emotions.
> 
> Maybe it's how emo sounds negative to someone new to this term. But yeah I think I will find this style interesting
> 
> Umm lust? What you said "eat, smoke, indulge in pleasures because you think it's the way of life? You just deserve it?", it sounds like gluttony of 7s too. I guess the answer is no for me. I do want more for things but usually it's information and ideas, for eating and other material pleasures, if I spend too much time on it I will feel guilty.


Did you ask people if they find you intimidatingly reckless, unfearful? Or how do you know they're scared from you at all?
But do happen to spend more than enough time on bodily pleasures? Do you have any "vice" / passion in particular? Eating chocolate for instance... Masturbating a lot xDDD


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## Hero of Freedom (Nov 23, 2014)

Neokortex said:


> But you do consciously avoid the other question, I reckon?


I meant to say nope to both questions you mentioned in the sentence.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

Finally another Hong Kongese/er to replace the now defunct Wendixy (RIP)


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> Did you ask people if they find you intimidatingly reckless, unfearful? Or how do you know they're scared from you at all?
> But do happen to spend more than enough time on bodily pleasures? Do you have any "vice" / passion in particular? Eating chocolate for instance... Masturbating a lot xDDD


Umm it's usually when they found me not afraid of ghost and insects etc. and they'll say "Wow you are not afraid of anything are you?", of course this is not so accurate. You mean how I know they are scared of me? Or scared? If it's the first, they are not. Second, they may scream or avoid or say they are scared, normal scare reaction.

I do eat too much sometimes, or sleep too much, or stay in the water for too long in the shower, these happen when I am not disciplining myself. ...I don't feel easy talking about sex, I mean I don't even talk about sex with people close to me orz I don't know what else I can talk about bodily pleasure... maybe you can suggest some more?


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

WamphyriThrall said:


> Finally another Hong Kongese/er to replace the now defunct Wendixy (RIP)


...Not sure how to react to this. It seems you are not yourself a Hong Konger or are you? And you didn't mean Wendixy is really a goner now right?


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## TornadicX (Jan 7, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> Hello, I am Grace, I am new in this forum. I want to introduce myself here... Well, I actually joined mostly so that I can do a serious self-intro. I also wanted to provide myself as a case of how I learned about myself and how I interact with others. So, plz expect this to be quite long, but I hope I write something interesting even to you too
> 
> *I am a Gemini, enneagram type 4 and INFP.* Generally I am introverted, playful and self-conscious. I always describe myself as a ghost. My greatest wish is to become a valued writer.
> 
> ...


This is simply my opinion, btw but.. Geminis are often double that way, it seems. They love and hate.. So, I'm not surprised.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> Umm it's usually when they found me not afraid of ghost and insects etc. and they'll say "Wow you are not afraid of anything are you?", of course this is not so accurate. You mean how I know they are scared of me? Or scared? If it's the first, they are not. Second, they may scream or avoid or say they are scared, normal scare reaction.
> 
> I do eat too much sometimes, or sleep too much, or stay in the water for too long in the shower, these happen when I am not disciplining myself. ...I don't feel easy talking about sex, I mean I don't even talk about sex with people close to me orz I don't know what else I can talk about bodily pleasure... maybe you can suggest some more?


Does eating too much influence your weight? Do you have foods your particularly like? Some special foods you binge on? (Ice cream?)
Alcohol? Recreational drugs?


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## Omg (Apr 3, 2017)

I think INFPs aren't dark. They value harmony and peace.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

infpfantasy said:


> This is simply my opinion, btw but.. Geminis are often double that way, it seems. They love and hate.. So, I'm not surprised.


Yeah, it won't be much of a surprise saying I'm such a Gemini, I don't meant to talk much about horoscope here. I meant to surprise people who thought INFPs are all so cute and cuddly.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> Does eating too much influence your weight? Do you have foods your particularly like? Some special foods you binge on? (Ice cream?)
> Alcohol? Recreational drugs?


Eating too much does influence my weight (I'm always fatter than average XD) I have several kinds of food I like (e.g. fast food, noodles, pudding), usually I eat more of those food when I feel like treating myself with sth better ("Let me reward myself after the project", "I feel down, I want dessert", "Today feels good for this food"). I do like the idea of alcohol and drinking, but I don't find it easily acceptable yet. I try to drink a bit more when I have the chance. Never touched drugs before, but curious.

How about you? And what are you trying to analyze? XD


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Omg said:


> I think INFPs aren't dark. They value harmony and peace.


Generally I won't say INFPs are dark, but sure everyone has both sides. And here I find myself different than what people may tend to see (I don't know, maybe also how INFPs tend to be?), so it's about cases of individual INFPs. And as a 4 sometimes I hope that most INFPs are really so pure and peaceful, then I could be more special ^^


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## TornadicX (Jan 7, 2015)

It's no problem for me. I'm an Astrologer.. I'm just familiar with Gemini women..


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## Raezor (Apr 14, 2017)

These are some of my insights so please don't take them to heart. 

It sounds like you have a convoluted and chaotic subconscious caused by an unstable, emotionally unavailable family environment. As you said you were loved deprived, you lived on all the feelings of what loneliness offered: pain, jealousy, craving for a savior, sadness etc. You lived on it so long you became dependent on it where it became the norm. When did not fit your internal norm you would do things that bring you back there again such as:



Grace_Kino said:


> Fortunately this time I recognized my bad habit soon, but now it seems our friendship is too disappointing


Where your subconscious is afraid of straying from the norm, causing anxiety, leading you to hesitate or act in ways to separate from her and think of the relationship in a "disappointing" way.



Grace_Kino said:


> I describe my writing style in my works as a maze, with which I just hope people genuinely trying to get through while I design the impossible labyrinths to challenge them


Same concept, you want to be saved but your subconscious does not. This is an example of cognitive dissonance.

In other words, you are addicted to the dark, evil, unstable atmosphere in your inner mind while you consciously want help. Its like an alcoholic who admits he is an alcoholic and wants to come clean but can't because of the subconscious produced anxiety of being sober. This is why you want to remain "unique and mysterious" so no once can really help you.

All your efforts to change will be in vain if you continue like this...

Again please don't take this to heart because these are just superficial insights from just one blog post. My insights are speculations. 

Nonetheless I hope it helped.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Raezor said:


> These are some of my insights so please don't take them to heart.
> 
> It sounds like you have a convoluted and chaotic subconscious caused by an unstable, emotionally unavailable family environment. As you said you were loved deprived, you lived on all the feelings of what loneliness offered: pain, jealousy, craving for a savior, sadness etc. You lived on it so long you became dependent on it where it became the norm. When did not fit your internal norm you would do things that bring you back there again such as:
> 
> ...


Thank you very much. I appreciate this.


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## Hero of Freedom (Nov 23, 2014)

So an experience. I tried to go against "dark imagination" in that mind environment and make it dissappear when it happened forcefully but they immediately reappear then stay or get stronger? Just tried it now and those sharp objects etc + weapons and so forth keep coming back in my imagination environment.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> Eating too much does influence my weight (I'm always fatter than average XD) I have several kinds of food I like (e.g. fast food, noodles, pudding), usually I eat more of those food when I feel like treating myself with sth better ("Let me reward myself after the project", *"I feel down, I want dessert"*, "Today feels good for this food"). I do like the idea of alcohol and drinking, but I don't find it easily acceptable yet. I try to drink a bit more when I have the chance. Never touched drugs before, but curious.
> 
> How about you? And what are you trying to analyze? XD


Me? I'm an Enneagram 1, so I'm mostly ascetic. There are foods that I like in thought but when it comes to eating them, it is rare that I enjoy them, most of the time I eat like a robot, without passion, with little pleasure. The bolded part sounds like an Ennagram 9 strategy that when you're in the bad mood you use food to disassociate yourself from that mood. Kinda like food brings you to peace with things in the world. For me, not. You know, if you're fatter than the average, then you can't volunteer to become (a fat) Batwoman, Batman's sidekick. People like other people who are at calm with the world (by virtue of simple passions) - and that's far from being 'dark.'


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Chara said:


> So an experiences. I tried to go against "dark imagination" in that mind environment and make it dissappear when it happened forcefully but they immediately reappear then stay or get stronger? Just tried it now and those sharp objects etc + weapons and so forth keep coming back in my imagination environment.


Not sure if I misunderstood what you said. You are conscious about those dark imagination being there, so it's like "think about an animal, but don't think about elephant". I guess if you want to make them disappear you can't directly imagine them disappear, but imagine them mutate into something else instead.



Raezor said:


> All your efforts to change will be in vain if you continue like this...


What I just said is actually how I try to 'change'. Yes I don't want to leave the darkness that I am so used to (and more than used to, I like it), but I want to make it something useful. It's like I've made myself a comfy dark room to rest in, and I want to put a lamp in it so I can work there too.



Neokortex said:


> Me? I'm an Enneagram 1, so I'm mostly ascetic. There are foods that I like in thought but when it comes to eating them, it is rare that I enjoy them, most of the time I eat like a robot, without passion, with little pleasure. The bolded part sounds like an Ennagram 9 strategy that when you're in the bad mood you use food to disassociate yourself from that mood. Kinda like food brings you to peace with things in the world. For me, not. You know, if you're fatter than the average, then you can't volunteer to become (a fat) Batwoman, Batman's sidekick. People like other people who are at calm with the world (by virtue of simple passions) - and that's far from being 'dark.'


Maybe I do have some component of 9 in me, but no that bolded part is not like what you said. What I go through in my mind when I decide to buy/eat dessert in a bad mood is like "Probably chocolate can be a temporary medicine because I still need to work" or "I want a rest so some sweet food can be a suitable accompaniment". Wellll this actually has nothing to do with being dark.


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## Raezor (Apr 14, 2017)

Grace_Kino said:


> What I just said is actually how I try to 'change'. Yes I don't want to leave the darkness that I am so used to (and more than used to, I like it), but I want to make it something useful. It's like I've made myself a comfy dark room to rest in, and I want to put a lamp in it so I can work there too.


You can use your darkness to your advantage. There are great writers, such as Edgar Allen Poe, who writes amazing gothic short stories. The world wouldn't as interesting if there weren't people that use darkness to express themselves. I can appreciate those kinds of work in the arts.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Raezor said:


> You can use your darkness to your advantage. There are great writers, such as Edgar Allen Poe, who writes amazing gothic short stories. The world wouldn't as interesting if there weren't people that use darkness to express themselves. I can appreciate those kinds of work in the arts.


Ahh yessssss, that is what I mean. 120% this is what I wanna do.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> Maybe I do have some component of 9 in me, but no that bolded part is not like what you said. What I go through in my mind when I decide to buy/eat dessert in a bad mood is like "Probably chocolate can be a temporary medicine because I still need to work" or "I want a rest so some sweet food can be a suitable accompaniment". Wellll this actually has nothing to do with being dark.


Yeah, I tend to have that mindset too. You didn't anything out up there, though. It's just, you know, when you look at the media, "fatter than average" people are rarely portrayed as "dark." Unless you think of a villain, usually male, piggish aristocrat, maffia leader, etc. I think if you asked your peers around you, it would turn out that they don't have any of those impressions about you. Rather, that they find you a possibly likable person. It's just probably owing to the alienation in Hong-Kong that they haven't approached you so far.


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## Dustanddawnzone (Jul 13, 2014)

> > You can use your darkness to your advantage. There are great writers, such as Edgar Allen Poe, who writes amazing gothic short stories. The world wouldn't as interesting if there weren't people that use darkness to express themselves. I can appreciate those kinds of work in the arts.
> 
> 
> Ahh yessssss, that is what I mean. 120% this is what I wanna do.


Nice, I want to see some of your work.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> Yeah, I tend to have that mindset too. You didn't anything out up there, though. It's just, you know, when you look at the media, "fatter than average" people are rarely portrayed as "dark." Unless you think of a villain, usually male, piggish aristocrat, maffia leader, etc. I think if you asked your peers around you, it would turn out that they don't have any of those impressions about you. Rather, that they find you a possibly likable person. It's just probably owing to the alienation in Hong-Kong that they haven't approached you so far.


True. We actually have the impression that fat people love laughing and are generally nice. (I remember in the Chinese textbook there's a story about a couple working in a store, the fat woman was nice and often scolded by the grumpy thin man. These is quite typical, some of my classmates said they could picture me as that fat woman... but this is quite some years ago anyway.) I do like to be kind and funny around people, usually I retreated already before I start the 'dark' thing. 

Actually all this conversations here kinda make me question myself whether I am really dark. (And I am doing a lot of self-referencing XDrz) And I reassure myself I am inwardly dark, and imagined outwardly dark. Seems I am trying to be both dark and light, so there's no way to generalize myself?


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Dustanddawnzone said:


> Nice, I want to see some of your work.


If only I have written more in English...


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> True. We actually have the impression that fat people love laughing and are generally nice. (I remember in the Chinese textbook there's a story about a couple working in a store, the fat woman was nice and often scolded by the grumpy thin man. These is quite typical, some of my classmates said they could picture me as that fat woman... but this is quite some years ago anyway.) I do like to be kind and funny around people, usually I retreated already before I start the 'dark' thing.
> 
> Actually all this conversations here kinda make me question myself whether I am really dark. (And I am doing a lot of self-referencing XDrz) And I reassure myself I am inwardly dark, and imagined outwardly dark. Seems I am trying to be both dark and light, so there's no way to generalize myself?


Yeah, that's why I said the emotional darkness. You're inwardly dark perhaps when you're feeling down. You're having okay days but something happens that makes you upset, then you feel this pull into the void... Dark, cold, isolating... ? What triggers it? As if there was something that when happens, it jolts you out from the Enneagram 9-type of "well fed," "graceful," "positive outlook," "simple happy"-state. As if your E9 strategy got to be followed by Enneagram 5 or 4w5? Both 4 and 5 are introverted types but 9 can extrovert too. So when you retreat, it's probably that it is the mechanism of 4 or 5 (or both). So what you experience in this change of gears is the big contrast between the general optimism of 9 and the nihilism of 5, melancholy of 4.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> Yeah, that's why I said the emotional darkness. You're inwardly dark perhaps when you're feeling down. You're having okay days but something happens that makes you upset, then you feel this pull into the void... Dark, cold, isolating... ? What triggers it? As if there was something that when happens, it jolts you out from the Enneagram 9-type of "well fed," "graceful," "positive outlook," "simple happy"-state. As if your E9 strategy got to be followed by Enneagram 5 or 4w5? Both 4 and 5 are introverted types but 9 can extrovert too. So when you retreat, it's probably that it is the mechanism of 4 or 5 (or both). So what you experience in this change of gears is the big contrast between the general optimism of 9 and the nihilism of 5, melancholy of 4.


Ok, emotional darkness... does this mean darkness at a certain emotional state? I guess I want to know what kind of darkness you and Chara have. 

(btw how do I mention someone?)


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> Ok, emotional darkness... does this mean darkness at a certain emotional state? I guess I want to know what kind of darkness you and Chara have.
> 
> (btw how do I mention someone?)


I mean that you feel dark inside, whereas others observing you don't think you're dark at all. Perhaps a bit odd. Whereas I am seen as very odd, especially if I indulge in my antics but inside I feel "light," rather than dark. I intimidate/creep out people just by talking to them so it's not me who is being dark, it's the way I'm being perceived that makes me dark (a "sketchy," strange person better to avoid). I usually think wanting to hurt, offend others is what could make someone feel dark inside. I think of INTJs nihilism coupled with a sense of entitlement for lashing out, being aggressive, the anti-hero (master plan to take over the world, plotting and the rush of hubris, greed for domination, instant gratification, etc) they consciously decided on being. My negative feelings are rather disappointment, depression, lingering paranoia and a sense of doom for the whole world. When others perceive me as "dark" or just scary, it's actually their perception of me not being true to my inner self - a conflict btw my emotions resulting in me faking and forcefully displaying untrue emotions. Fake, nervous smile of a sociopath or sthing. So "dark" means being "shady," hectic, fidgety, suggesting sudden moves instead of being calm, easy going, in line with the norms, recognizing social support, embeddedness in the network, confidently relying on social structures, thus no need to be jittery and display inner inconsistencies. Wear the mask (social protocols of behavior) proudly (unconsciously appropriating the rules of the game).


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> I mean that you feel dark inside, whereas others observing you don't think you're dark at all. Perhaps a bit odd. Whereas I am seen as very odd, especially if I indulge in my antics but inside I feel "light," rather than dark. I intimidate/creep out people just by talking to them so it's not me who is being dark, it's the way I'm being perceived that makes me dark (a "sketchy," strange person better to avoid). I usually think wanting to hurt, offend others is what could make someone feel dark inside. I think of INTJs nihilism coupled with a sense of entitlement for lashing out, being aggressive, the anti-hero (master plan to take over the world, plotting and the rush of hubris, greed for domination, instant gratification, etc) they consciously decided on being. My negative feelings are rather disappointment, depression, lingering paranoia and a sense of doom for the whole world. When others perceive me as "dark" or just scary, it's actually their perception of me not being true to my inner self - a conflict btw my emotions resulting in me faking and forcefully displaying untrue emotions. Fake, nervous smile of a sociopath or sthing. So "dark" means being "shady," hectic, fidgety, suggesting sudden moves instead of being calm, easy going, in line with the norms, recognizing social support, embeddedness in the network, confidently relying on social structures, thus no need to be jittery and display inner inconsistencies. Wear the mask (social protocols of behavior) proudly (unconsciously appropriating the rules of the game).


That's quite different from me. But why is that so?
There's a year I once tried to display a cold and aggressive, 'dark' outlook to sort of defend myself, because of the environment at that time. I didn't have a reason why that would work. My mind was dark as before but the guilt of what I did started to take over. That guilt is what contains my darkness and locks it in my inner self now. Is this one way to explain 'wanting to hurt, offend others makes someone feel dark inside'? But why lock away your light? It seems the layers are the difference. You are also finding yourself. But you integrated others' perception into yourself, your darkness. I think that if you know you are being yourself, then it doesn't matter if it's dark or light. (And no I am not very convinced myself) Why are you that way?

I hope you'd not be offended if I interpreted wrongly orz


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> That's quite different from me. But why is that so?
> There's a year I once tried to display a cold and aggressive, 'dark' outlook to sort of defend myself, because of the environment at that time. I didn't have a reason why that would work. My mind was dark as before but the guilt of what I did started to take over. That guilt is what contains my darkness and locks it in my inner self now. Is this one way to explain 'wanting to hurt, offend others makes someone feel dark inside'? But why lock away your light? It seems the layers are the difference. You are also finding yourself. But you integrated others' perception into yourself, your darkness. I think that if you know you are being yourself, then it doesn't matter if it's dark or light. (And no I am not very convinced myself) Why are you that way?
> 
> I hope you'd not be offended if I interpreted wrongly orz


I didn't understand the part where... you say you displayed a defensive "darkness" but then felt guilt and that guilt contains your darkness inside. You say your mind was as dark as before and ask whether it is the same as feeling dark inside bc of dark impulses. I have to say I'm Enneagram 1 tertiary. So I acknowledge my impulses but take pride in controlling them. So in a sense the hypocrisy of Enneagram 1, of being "right" instead identifying with, say, some vengeful thoughts is that what makes me feel not dark but rather exemplary. A policeman, guardian.

So why do I lock away my light? Because I know that there're people who on the surface display a "lightness" but if I'm not careful they will hurt me. I don't show my lightness (or I fake it similarly to the pretenders) to get to know better the people who are dark inside but pretend otherwise. It's a precaution. "Dark" people only trust the ones who fake being "light" the same way they do. This pretense is necessary, otherwise you won't get to better positions in society. The implicit attitude is that if you show your dark impulses, then there's really something wrong with you. If you hide it and be cryptic about them, then you can become an insider.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> I didn't understand the part where... you say you displayed a defensive "darkness" but then felt guilt and that guilt contains your darkness inside. You say your mind was as dark as before and ask whether it is the same as feeling dark inside bc of dark impulses. I have to say I'm Enneagram 1 tertiary. So I acknowledge my impulses but take pride in controlling them. So in a sense the hypocrisy of Enneagram 1, of being "right" instead identifying with, say, some vengeful thoughts is that what makes me feel not dark but rather exemplary. A policeman, guardian.
> 
> So why do I lock away my light? Because I know that there're people who on the surface display a "lightness" but if I'm not careful they will hurt me. I don't show my lightness (or I fake it similarly to the pretenders) to get to know better the people who are dark inside but pretend otherwise. It's a precaution. "Dark" people only trust the ones who fake being "light" the same way they do. This pretense is necessary, otherwise you won't get to better positions in society. The implicit attitude is that if you show your dark impulses, then there's really something wrong with you. If you hide it and be cryptic about them, then you can become an insider.


I am also quite confused... It seems you are saying you fake 'lightness', yet others see you as dark, are they layers or different scenarios so you have different preference? What do you think of Dazai Osamu?

About the defensive darkness, it was about the year I revenged on other people, talk about suicide, learnt foul language etc.. As I said it was because of the environment, a lot of bullies and such were happening in my class. Not so dark you may say, but before these I was always passive and not outspoken, and being right doesn't make me not dark (there were indeed positive things in those days). I am very sensitive to guilt I guess, so when I became that way, attacking people and such, sometimes even my friends are surprised, and I don't want to hurt my friends so my guilt contains my darkness. Btw I always want someone to tell me there's something wrong with me.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> I am also quite confused... It seems you are saying you fake 'lightness', yet others see you as dark, are they layers or different scenarios so you have different preference? What do you think of Dazai Osamu?


Umm, wrong expression. I rather fake "normalcy" and a type of social grace that is needed to get by. The euphemism of the social world instead of showing my own depression with things. However, I'm also able to humor that depression so it's not really that dark. I'd rather say I feel a distant sadness. That I find difficult to trace its origins. A not so clear featured, well defined sadness. But it's not like...



http://bungostraydogs.wikia.com/wiki/Osamu_Dazai said:


> However, while his suicidal tendencies are initially comedic, they reveal a truly dark deep hole that Dazai has and believes he cannot fill. He believed he could fill this hole and find a reason worth living for if he lived a life of bloodshed and war, but his friend Oda with his dying breath convinced him to choose the good side.


... because that's the void I recognized in you. You may have chosen the "good side" so as to cover up the dark void. I'm rather using humor to distract myself from the sadness.

[/quote]About the defensive darkness, it was about the year I revenged on other people, talk about suicide, learnt foul language etc.. As I said it was because of the environment, a lot of bullies and such were happening in my class. Not so dark you may say, but before these I was always passive and not outspoken, and being right doesn't make me not dark (there were indeed positive things in those days). I am very sensitive to guilt I guess, so when I became that way, attacking people and such, sometimes even my friends are surprised, and I don't want to hurt my friends so my guilt contains my darkness. Btw I always want someone to tell me there's something wrong with me.[/QUOTE]

My revenge is in the form of biting envy of E4. I'm more subtle and less aggressive, rather poisonous. It's not head-on confrontation. It's more woman-like, verbal, under-the-radar, psychological warfare. The strategy you mentions sounds like a 9w8. When a lazy 9 finally attacks back. So on top you have guilt keeping it in check. But inside you have the aggression repressed. For me, it's rather that I have my envy/hatred repressed. Dazai, though, seems like a 9w8 4w5 6w7. Where 4 + 6 makes up for an Edgar Allen Poe-like detective ("of ratiocination"). Do you think that you feel nihilism because of the guilt towards uncontrolled aggression, rage? As if you were sad about having done unethical things out of adapting to a hostile environment? Not just sad but that dark depression of bleakness?


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> Umm, wrong expression. I rather fake "normalcy" and a type of social grace that is needed to get by. The euphemism of the social world instead of showing my own depression with things. However, I'm also able to humor that depression so it's not really that dark. I'd rather say I feel a distant sadness. That I find difficult to trace its origins. A not so clear featured, well defined sadness. But it's not like...


The distant sadness, does it feels like a temperature inside your body, or radiated from people around you, or it's a real large distant it's transported from another side of the world?




Neokortex said:


> ... because that's the void I recognized in you. You may have chosen the "good side" so as to cover up the dark void. I'm rather using humor to distract myself from the sadness.


I use humor to distract other people though. I don't want to be normal anyway and I don't want to lie either, so I bend my expression to the humorous way. I sometimes use honesty as a mask, or as a weapon (This is actually what I did when I replied you the first time). I didn't actually choose the "good" or "bad" side. But before I dare to influence people I will try to go with the good side.

I actually wanted to talk about the real Dazai, but yeah talking about the Stray Dog version is easier. I just finished those episodes yesterday so, phew! Not a spoiler XD



Neokortex said:


> My revenge is in the form of biting envy of E4. I'm more subtle and less aggressive, rather poisonous. It's not head-on confrontation. It's more woman-like, verbal, under-the-radar, psychological warfare. The strategy you mentions sounds like a 9w8. When a lazy 9 finally attacks back. So on top you have guilt keeping it in check. But inside you have the aggression repressed. For me, it's rather that I have my envy/hatred repressed. Dazai, though, seems like a 9w8 4w5 6w7. Where 4 + 6 makes up for an Edgar Allen Poe-like detective ("of ratiocination"). Do you think that you feel nihilism because of the guilt towards uncontrolled aggression, rage? As if you were sad about having done unethical things out of adapting to a hostile environment? Not just sad but that dark depression of bleakness?


Most of the time I just attack others verbally. Once I wrote a red letter to intimidate someone. And my anger outburst twice in my six years of secondary school life, once I nearly got into a fight, another time I shouted so loud I silenced the whole class. Yeah, the usually good-tempered 9. 
I didn't say much about nihilism although you mentioned it a few times before because I don't really understand it. I feel like if any answers or meaning exist they are infinitely far away, so I live with what I have inside me. I don't know how I relate nihilism with the guilt yet.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> The distant sadness, does it feels like a temperature inside your body, or radiated from people around you, or it's a real large distant it's transported from another side of the world?
> 
> I use humor to distract other people though. I don't want to be normal anyway and I don't want to lie either, so I bend my expression to the humorous way. I sometimes use honesty as a mask, or as a weapon (This is actually what I did when I replied you the first time). I didn't actually choose the "good" or "bad" side. But before I dare to influence people I will try to go with the good side.
> 
> ...


Okay, here I lost track of you. At this point it seems that the darkness you refer to is rather emotional and you had some aggressive outbursts but not the Sx like focused crazily on one individual. Ofc every aggression has someone in focus but your writing style doesn't really emphasize that. I guess you're more concerned with emotional truthfulness, with which I'm not. I'm not concerned with the compromises I have to make regarding the expression of my affect, sentiments, especially the "dark ones." Because I was brought up the way that automatically my emotions didn't mean anything. So I automatically keep them in check in favor of other people's. That's the social (heart) type. The keen awareness that there're always others out there with their (emotional) own needs. It's one's own submission into (social) servitude. But what I don't want to submit is my bodily needs. So I don't feel awkward telling my sexual desires or aggressive fantasies, it just annoys me that it freaks people out and makes others think I'm crazy. So gotta be careful with that. But not with emotions bc I'm already hiding them, to my detriment. In fact, some strong, Sx 2s can really make me feel awkward about expressing my emotions.

Answering your question: it's a vague sadness. A more generalized one, can't really define it, it's as if it is built up gradually during the day after each compromise I make that ends with me holding my emotions back. But I do it automatically. I'm programmed this way. Keep it on the task and not deal w/ emotions. It definitely doesn't come from others. If you have it like that, that's empathy. And neither from the other side of the world. It's inside me, it doesn't have a temperature, and it's somewhere at that part of my consciousness that I'm not aware of, or semi-consciously don't want to be aware of. It's coming somewhere from behind me, in my skull or around the back of my throat.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> Okay, here I lost track of you. At this point it seems that the darkness you refer to is rather emotional and you had some aggressive outbursts but not the Sx like focused crazily on one individual. Ofc every aggression has someone in focus but your writing style doesn't really emphasize that. I guess you're more concerned with emotional truthfulness, with which I'm not. I'm not concerned with the compromises I have to make regarding the expression of my affect, sentiments, especially the "dark ones." Because I was brought up the way that automatically my emotions didn't mean anything. So I automatically keep them in check in favor of other people's. That's the social (heart) type. The keen awareness that there're always others out there with their (emotional) own needs. It's one's own submission into (social) servitude. But what I don't want to submit is my bodily needs. So I don't feel awkward telling my sexual desires or aggressive fantasies, it just annoys me that it freaks people out and makes others think I'm crazy. So gotta be careful with that. But not with emotions bc I'm already hiding them, to my detriment. In fact, some strong, Sx 2s can really make me feel awkward about expressing my emotions.


Actually I just recently tested and found that I am Sx, and I relate most strongly with Sx, without knowing a lot about this classification. Not so crazily focused on one person I guess? The red letter and that time I shouted were mainly because of one person, although the first one was not toward her. The time I nearly got into a fight was because of another person and it's directed to her. I feel like I need one important people in my life to help lead my main story line, it's just this person changes every 1 or 2 years. Yeah, for some reason I decided that I don't want to lie, especially not to myself. But to the others I seldom display my negative emotions, I use a 'better' truth to disguise it. Unless I am quite sure they want to hear it and won't be affected by it.

Btw, just want to mention this, during the interview for entering the university one professor asked me "are you happy?", and I was surprised and hastily answered "you can say so".



Neokortex said:


> Answering your question: it's a vague sadness. A more generalized one, can't really define it, it's as if it is built up gradually during the day after each compromise I make that ends with me holding my emotions back. But I do it automatically. I'm programmed this way. Keep it on the task and not deal w/ emotions. It definitely doesn't come from others. If you have it like that, that's empathy. And neither from the other side of the world. It's inside me, it doesn't have a temperature, and it's somewhere at that part of my consciousness that I'm not aware of, or semi-consciously don't want to be aware of. It's coming somewhere from behind me, in my skull or around the back of my throat.


Does it feel like either you will drown in it or it will explode? What I meant by temperature is something like energy inside you, sometimes not just in the mind but it's there in your body too, and it's prompting you to take whatever action. It sounds like you are unlike a typical INFP who will be in touch with their emotions. But true the learning/environment has it's influence, it's useful to compromise many of the times. As you may expect I don't like to compromise this way, and honestly this limits me a lot. But I see emotion as one of the few powers I really have, and if I can use it, I will feel proud.

I do feel the other two types of sadness I mentioned too. Sometimes I feel sadness from others, but without understanding them so it's not empathy. It's similar to what's called 'sonder'. To me it does feels like the vague infrared radiation/body temperature emitted from the others passing by me. And the one from the other side of the world, it's similar to 'ellipsism', foreseeing but at the same time not able to see what time will bring to this world.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> Actually I just recently tested and found that I am Sx, and I relate most strongly with Sx, without knowing a lot about this classification. Not so crazily focused on one person I guess? The red letter and that time I shouted were mainly because of one person, although the first one was not toward her. The time I nearly got into a fight was because of another person and it's directed to her. *I feel like I need one important people in my life to help lead my main story line, it's just this person changes every 1 or 2 years. *Yeah, for some reason I decided that I don't want to lie, especially not to myself. But to the others I seldom display my negative emotions, I use a 'better' truth to disguise it. Unless I am quite sure they want to hear it and won't be affected by it.
> 
> As you may expect I don't like to compromise this way, and honestly this limits me a lot. But I see emotion as one of the few powers I really have, and if I can use it, I will feel proud.


The bolded part sounds like an Sx 9. You may look into 9w1, 9w8 differences. But think of 9 as a peacemaker. Just today I talked to a 9 and I navigated the conversation in a way that it turned out her valuing tolerance means a lot of compromise. She's happy playing "both sides." So in your case, this whole "I just recently tested and found that I am Sx" can be also put down to conformism. Which, if you're really into one person motivating you, instead of "friends," "colleagues," etc, then it would make it an So/Sx 9. Somewhat like that. So/Sx means that they're into the social but they need a parental figure to complement their Sp blind spot, manage their material needs, or in head-type or heart-type case, ground them in their true identity. Sx-first suggests assertiveness in a sense that you don't put anyone above you. Sx/Sos are charismatic leaders or core figures in a group, Sx/Sps are fierce loners. Sp/Sxs are wallflowers, shady background figures. But ofc it gets more complicated when you assign instinct to each of your Enneatype. I don't know for sure if Sx 9 exists but so far we've discussed btw ourselves so I guess you could be an Sx 9. However, passivity, conformism is something that's usually not an Sx-dom trait. You'll get more accuracy if you look into your other Enneatypes.

+ since a 9 is gut sphere, in my view at least, you should be able to talk about your gut indulgences from a more intimate perspective. Say, if you ever connected the pleasure of eating w/ the pleasure of porn. What it feels like to your inner child if you satisfy both these needs. I actually put my favorite songs to porn so it's really uplifting, haha.

And going after tests is social already. Figuring you out is not a team-work. You gotta read the descriptions.
Sonder + feeling other's radiations is also empathetic social awareness. Sx/Sp is rather blind to it all.


> I do feel the other two types of sadness I mentioned too. Sometimes I feel sadness from others, but without understanding them so it's not empathy.


 Well, if you didn't talk to them, then ofc not. You wouldn't. For me it only comes when I'm in my So/Sp 4 mode. It's amazing. I'll start feeling people's characters again. I'll become more patient, listening, taking in more info, even noticing the girls who find me attractive. It's a good standpoint to start networking again. Too bad it doesn't last long, since I have an itch to bring people to my level of awareness, which is just a fancy way of saying I'm addicted to criticizing them, invasively psychoanalyze 'em against their will. So gradually I fall out from that more empathetic, lenient, tolerant, accepting state. Empathy, ya' know, it never punishes. It harmonizes, so it only helps the world locally (you can only reconcile so distant differences). That's why criticism is needed.

I like the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows because I so much resonate with it. Both words relate a very social meaning. It's about submitting yourself, your emotions to the whole. It's about sadness over servitude. And also, the nobility of it. Bittersweet self-submission. For the future of our kind. There's so much glory hidden in there...

So I'd argue, what you have there is social awareness through empathy, recognizing others and their boundaries, as opposed to yours. Conforming your emotions, also, is definitely social.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> The bolded part sounds like an Sx 9. You may look into 9w1, 9w8 differences. But think of 9 as a peacemaker. Just today I talked to a 9 and I navigated the conversation in a way that it turned out her valuing tolerance means a lot of compromise. She's happy playing "both sides." So in your case, this whole "I just recently tested and found that I am Sx" can be also put down to conformism. Which, if you're really into one person motivating you, instead of "friends," "colleagues," etc, then it would make it an So/Sx 9. Somewhat like that. So/Sx means that they're into the social but they need a parental figure to complement their Sp blind spot, manage their material needs, or in head-type or heart-type case, ground them in their true identity. Sx-first suggests assertiveness in a sense that you don't put anyone above you. Sx/Sos are charismatic leaders or core figures in a group, Sx/Sps are fierce loners. Sp/Sxs are wallflowers, shady background figures. But ofc it gets more complicated when you assign instinct to each of your Enneatype. I don't know for sure if Sx 9 exists but so far we've discussed btw ourselves so I guess you could be an Sx 9. However, passivity, conformism is something that's usually not an Sx-dom trait. You'll get more accuracy if you look into your other Enneatypes.
> 
> + since a 9 is gut sphere, in my view at least, you should be able to talk about your gut indulgences from a more intimate perspective. Say, if you ever connected the pleasure of eating w/ the pleasure of porn. What it feels like to your inner child if you satisfy both these needs. I actually put my favorite songs to porn so it's really uplifting, haha.
> 
> ...



Ok, since I am indeed not experienced with the typing, I went to take tests a few more times, and then I judge the result with what I've read and how I feel about myself. For instinctual variant I used this test: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test-2.php . The first time few weeks ago I got 4sx>7so>5sx>9sx>6sx>8sp (>3sx>1so>2sp but these three always stay as the least), I thought this is quite accurate. Today since we talk about it I did it again, got 4sx>5sx>6sp and 4sp>5sx>9sx, 7so and 8sp lurking in the middle. With the instinctual variant test on PerC I got sx>so>sp but quite balanced. So probably type-wise I am a mixture, and beyond types of course I am a mixture.

At this point I don't wanna type myself in detail anymore. Escaping from the complexity but also I feel it's dangerous to understand a person too much based on types, just like understanding people based on horoscope. I have predominant type 4w5, but I can't figure out my tritype since I can see myself having a degree of characteristics of all types, some more significant some less, and influence me at different times. (I very briefly described this in my profile)
I see you are really trying to analyze me. I always want to be analyzed and studied (if it's fine I'll choose to talk a lot about just myself here). But I can't be replaced by numbers and letters, even if I represent myself with a complicated chain of types it will be uncanny when finally I meet someone with exact same combination. I just know this is how it works on this forum. I know you understand what I mean.

"I feel like I need one important people in my life to help lead my main story line, it's just this person changes every 1 or 2 years." I don't mean motivation. I mean most of the time I direct my energy to myself, and having someone important to focus on allows me to release my energy to a outward target, this burst of energy actually make me feel like falling in love quite easily (bisexual is not confused, but I am a confused bisexual). Having sex alone or with another person can be a metaphor for this. Type 9 is how I appear to be, my outermost personality. I conform and follow the flow when I am not ready to take a challenge, or when I simply don't care. Procrastination is deeper rooted though. I am good-tempered because things don't irritate me easily. But when I am 'activated', when something really grabs my interest, I am either a 4 or a 7, either I rebel and go my own way proudly or I am passionate and want to know and appreciate more. I think I do have a large component of SO, it reminds me how I actually hope to be in a group with people dear to me, like a family. I don't naturally have high energy as a SX, but when I have such energy I feel good. 

I don't know, I will just try to do the connection between pleasures to see if I can... Once I peeked in my roommate's diary, she found out at one point and said she feels like she is involuntarily naked, and I said I want her to look at my diary secretly too (I want her to know me), and feels like I am an exhibitionist. Pleasure of deep mutual knowing connected with sight of the body (does this make sense? orz) When no one is watching I sometimes dance to music, music's rhythm and flow w/ physical energy display. Or eating/feeling of taste stimuli and consumption with consumption of experience/information/emotion from a movie. I guess I am more like channeling mental pleasure with bodily pleasure.

When sadness is radiated from other people and I don't talk to them, the distance is there. If I talk to them or in other ways developed empathy, a bond is created. I also feel a satisfaction when I found someone unlike me has specific characteristic similar with me, like that cinematography classmate who is quite well-known in school and acts like he is a pro (while I am new to the field), got lectured because he neglected the basics and feels too good. I sometimes have the same problem with my writing too. It's interesting. I also like to have competitors. And I like to connect, to be influenced but not controlled and limited. I want to belong and be able to show who I am and be a specific unique character, I actually enjoys archetypes and labels, using them as definitions but not defined just by them.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

> When sadness is radiated from other people and I don't talk to them, the distance is there. If I talk to them or in other ways developed empathy, a bond is created. I also feel a satisfaction when I found someone unlike me has specific characteristic similar with me, like that cinematography classmate who is quite well-known in school and acts like he is a pro (while I am new to the field), got lectured because he neglected the basics and feels too good. I sometimes have the same problem with my writing too. It's interesting. I also like to have competitors. And I like to connect, *to be influenced but not controlled and limited.* *I want to belong and be able to show who I am and be a specific unique character*, I actually enjoys archetypes and labels, using them as definitions but not defined just by them.


Cinematography class-mate sounds like an Enneagram 3 ambitious to achieve but cuts corners in the process. E3s attract E9s. E9s gain inspiration from E3s. Do you think your E9 contentedness keeps you from society? You want to reintegrate as an achieved, special person? Someone who moved on from being lazy and static?



> "I feel like I need one important people in my life to help lead my main story line, it's just this person changes every 1 or 2 years." I don't mean motivation. *I mean most of the time I direct my energy to myself, and having someone important to focus on allows me to release my energy to a outward target, this burst of energy actually make me feel like falling in love quite easily (bisexual is not confused, but I am a confused bisexual). Having sex alone or with another person can be a metaphor for this.* Type 9 is how I appear to be, my outermost personality. I conform and follow the flow when I am not ready to take a challenge, or when I simply don't care. Procrastination is deeper rooted though. I am good-tempered because things don't irritate me easily. But when I am 'activated', when something really grabs my interest, I am either a 4 or a 7, either I rebel and go my own way proudly or I am passionate and want to know and appreciate more. I think I do have a large component of SO, it reminds me how I actually hope to be in a group with people dear to me, like a family. I don't naturally have high energy as a SX, but when I have such energy I feel good.


You direct your energy onto yourself... Sounds like an Sp/Sx 9. Means that you're more contained, into yourself, slow to react type.



> I don't know, I will just try to do the connection between pleasures to see if I can... Once I peeked in my roommate's diary, she found out at one point and said she feels like she is involuntarily naked, and I said I want her to look at my diary secretly too (I want her to know me), and feels like I am an exhibitionist. Pleasure of deep mutual knowing connected with sight of the body (does this make sense? orz) *When no one is watching I sometimes dance to music, music's rhythm and flow w/ physical energy display.* Or eating/feeling of taste stimuli and consumption with consumption of experience/information/emotion from a movie. *I guess I am more like channeling mental pleasure with bodily pleasure*.


But which one are you more interested in? Bodily pleasure or mental (info/emotion) pleasure?



> At this point I don't wanna type myself in detail anymore. Escaping from the complexity but also I feel it's dangerous to understand a person too much based on types, just like understanding people based on horoscope. I have predominant type 4w5, but I can't figure out my tritype since I can see myself having a degree of characteristics of all types, some more significant some less, and influence me at different times. (I very briefly described this in my profile)
> I see you are really trying to analyze me. I always want to be analyzed and studied (if it's fine I'll choose to talk a lot about just myself here). But I can't be replaced by numbers and letters, even if I represent myself with a complicated chain of types it will be uncanny when finally I meet someone with exact same combination. I just know this is how it works on this forum. I know you understand what I mean.


I didn't get my tritype from testing. And I don't consider it done. If you take tests, then all you're going to get are #s.


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> Cinematography class-mate sounds like an Enneagram 3 ambitious to achieve but cuts corners in the process. E3s attract E9s. E9s gain inspiration from E3s. Do you think your E9 contentedness keeps you from society? You want to reintegrate as an achieved, special person? Someone who moved on from being lazy and static?
> 
> ...
> 
> You direct your energy onto yourself... Sounds like an Sp/Sx 9. Means that you're more contained, into yourself, slow to react type.


This 'attraction' or 'inspiration' seems more an aggressive type though. I mean before the realization he was just an annoying person to me, after that I find we have similarities so I can compare and compete with him, and see if I can be better than him, if not at least I gain a new perspective. I don't think my contentedness keeps me from society, it's very easy for me to find things that I lack and need to earn, so most of the time I don't think I am contented. I do want to reintegrate as an achieved, special person. I am not static, my energy is flowing inside me, sometimes quite vigorously.

Contained, into yourself, slow to react type <- true.




> But which one are you more interested in? Bodily pleasure or mental (info/emotion) pleasure?


Mental pleasure. I consciously enjoy mental pleasure. Bodily pleasure just instinctively feels good. (I once said that if I can live without eating I will stop eating except occasionally a few favorite food.)



> I didn't get my tritype from testing. And I don't consider it done. If you take tests, then all you're going to get are #s.


So you get your tritype from reading? I know just testing out my types is not enough, I just want to start from this. What I mean by not to be replaced by letters and numbers is not to complain that they don't have a meaning to me (because I only got them from tests), but that I will never fit 100% into a type/tritype etc.. So I think, having a tritype is interesting, but if I would do that, why don't I analyze myself based on all the types, and get the order and degree I fit into each type? (and ideally, to understand myself even when not considering types. This is more like a reminder for myself.)


Btw, I recently got INTP from a test I got before, a bit surprising because I consistently got INFP before, but I know that my Feeling and Thinking are quite balanced. So I still consider myself INFP with balanced F/T (like 4w5?), and I also realized that someone familiar with me would say I am logical outward, but in my writing which I truly express myself I'm emotional. I also make decisions first and finally based on my feeling.
I also found that I have two INFP projectmates, both of them are E9 and quite different from me.


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> This 'attraction' or 'inspiration' seems more an aggressive type though. I mean before the realization he was just an annoying person to me, after that I find we have similarities so I can compare and compete with him, and see if I can be better than him, if not at least I gain a new perspective. I don't think my contentedness keeps me from society, it's very easy for me to find things that I lack and need to earn, so most of the time I don't think I am contented. I do want to reintegrate as an achieved, special person. I am not static, my energy is flowing inside me, sometimes quite vigorously.


That what keeps you from reintegrating? What keeps you outside? If not being too slow or too lazy, then perphaps you're afraid of coming across as stupid? Not smart enough?



> Contained, into yourself, slow to react type <- true.
> 
> Mental pleasure. I consciously enjoy mental pleasure. Bodily pleasure just instinctively feels good. (I once said that if I can live without eating I will stop eating except occasionally a few favorite food.)


I don't enjoy mental pleasure as much since for me it comes across as anxiety. A lot of problems that keep bugging me, big questions that don't let me rest. About life. About the meaning, about our daily illusions in the way. But perhaps when you're successful in getting mentally from A to B is when you feel good about yourself. Solve a riddle and don't feel static or unachieved anymore. For me it's rather solving my physical and practical problems that feels rewarding. Not much the thinking process. I'm not interested in food but I'm interested in sex. 



> So you get your tritype from reading? I know just testing out my types is not enough, I just want to start from this. What I mean by not to be replaced by letters and numbers is not to complain that they don't have a meaning to me (because I only got them from tests), but that I will never fit 100% into a type/tritype etc.. So I think, having a tritype is interesting, but if I would do that, why don't I analyze myself based on all the types, and get the order and degree I fit into each type? (and ideally, to understand myself even when not considering types. This is more like a reminder for myself.)


That's the point. If you're afraid you'll be swayed by faulty thinking, by stereotyping, by boxing yourself in, then probably your head-type is social. Meaning that perhaps you want to be smarter for people to accept you in. You're afraid of boxing yourself in bc you half-consciously are aware of your own mental-laziness. But social head-types do the same, they rely on the thought of an authority instead of them coming up with their own ideas individually. Like, for me, tritype is just a point of reference, I have already expanded it to include more than 3 types in it. To reformulate it: social head-types defer from seriously considering typology bc they're afraid they'll box themselves in bc they already know they tend to stereotype others.

... maybe you're head type-last like 9w1... 4w5... 5w6



> Btw, I recently got INTP from a test I got before, a bit surprising because I consistently got INFP before, but I know that my Feeling and Thinking are quite balanced. So I still consider myself INFP with balanced F/T (like 4w5?), and I also realized that someone familiar with me would say I am logical outward, but in my writing which I truly express myself I'm emotional. I also make decisions first and finally based on my feeling.
> I also found that I have two INFP projectmates, both of them are E9 and quite different from me.


Yeah, well if you're still making tests, it won't help you progress. It's just my thought. I have this compulsion to think on my own and I approach MBTi now less based on cognitive functions but more on trying to find out other types' development through their specific treatment of their emotions.

So... I think I'll wrap this up here. We have different interests. I'd integrate into E9 to indulge in anything that numbs my thinking down and you'd rather spin up your cogwheels in your brain instead. Naaa..., not my piece of cake. Too much thinking makes you crazy. xDDDD


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

Neokortex said:


> That what keeps you from reintegrating? What keeps you outside? If not being too slow or too lazy, then perphaps you're afraid of coming across as stupid? Not smart enough?


I think the core problem that keeps me from reintegrating is my sense of responsibility. I feel like I need to be responsible for many things I do (sometimes true sometimes not), and therefore I want to escape from those. 



> I don't enjoy mental pleasure as much since for me it comes across as anxiety. A lot of problems that keep bugging me, big questions that don't let me rest. About life. About the meaning, about our daily illusions in the way. But perhaps when you're successful in getting mentally from A to B is when you feel good about yourself. Solve a riddle and don't feel static or unachieved anymore. For me it's rather solving my physical and practical problems that feels rewarding. Not much the thinking process. I'm not interested in food but I'm interested in sex.


I know that frustration, but most of that I don't see as anxiety anymore. Maybe since you moved out, solving basic physical practical problem is more rewarding and makes you feel really alive. I am the more unrealistic type, trying to ignore living problems and failing. It would be nice if I can survive simply by thinking but no.



> That's the point. If you're afraid you'll be swayed by faulty thinking, by stereotyping, by boxing yourself in, then probably your head-type is social. Meaning that perhaps you want to be smarter for people to accept you in. You're afraid of boxing yourself in bc you half-consciously are aware of your own mental-laziness. But social head-types do the same, they rely on the thought of an authority instead of them coming up with their own ideas individually. Like, for me, tritype is just a point of reference, I have already expanded it to include more than 3 types in it. To reformulate it: *social head-types defer from seriously considering typology bc they're afraid they'll box themselves in bc they already know they tend to stereotype others.*
> 
> ... maybe you're head type-last like 9w1... 4w5... 5w6
> 
> Yeah, well if you're still making tests, it won't help you progress. It's just my thought. I have this compulsion to think on my own and I approach MBTi now less based on cognitive functions but more on trying to find out other types' development through their specific treatment of their emotions.


Perhaps you're right. As I don't make real connection with people easily, I use stereotypes to 'understand' people first. I am not confident enough yet to need not authority or an accepted system to validate myself, but I know that is not what I am searching for. There's a lot I still need to learn and try.

I don't get how you work out the order of the types though. Like why is 9w1 before 4w5? When I am stable I behave like a 9, but I don't relate with 9 as much as I do with 4. And I think 7 plays a quite important role in my personality.

Since I tend to look at only what related to me, if a test threw me something different I will start to look at that too. Then I will find my own way.



> So... I think I'll wrap this up here. We have different interests. I'd integrate into E9 to indulge in anything that numbs my thinking down and you'd rather spin up your cogwheels in your brain instead. Naaa..., not my piece of cake. Too much thinking makes you crazy. xDDDD


I'd like to be crazy, be it tortured artists or mad scientists XD

So you want to end the discussion? It's been good talking with you, I will miss you


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## INFP_person (May 14, 2017)

I can relate to you as far as the roomate thing goes, because my twin is an ENTP and I'm an INFP


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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

INFP_person said:


> I can relate to you as far as the roomate thing goes, because my twin is an ENTP and I'm an INFP


Oooooh coooool! I don't know any twins personally but I'm very interested in twins XD Can you tell me more about that, like whether you and your twin are very close or not?


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## leftover crack (May 12, 2013)




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## Ghostly Mind (Apr 4, 2017)

succ said:


>


Helloooo

(How do I delete thumbnails orzzz)
(I can't, so I decided to make it messier)


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## Neokortex (May 22, 2015)

Grace_Kino said:


> I think the core problem that keeps me from reintegrating is my sense of responsibility. I feel like I need to be responsible for many things I do (sometimes true sometimes not), and therefore I want to escape from those.
> 
> I know that frustration, but most of that I don't see as anxiety anymore. Maybe since you moved out, solving basic physical practical problem is more rewarding and makes you feel really alive. I am the more unrealistic type, trying to ignore living problems and failing. It would be nice if I can survive simply by thinking but no.


Sounds like it's your 9 that keeps you from being pragmatic. And solving the issues in time. Not that I don't procrastinate, but still my w3 helps me speed up and cut corners to meet the deadlines. Kind of like the way ENTPs do, although they are way better. They basically cheat their way up, haha DD



> Perhaps you're right. As I don't make real connection with people easily, I use stereotypes to 'understand' people first. I am not confident enough yet to need not authority or an accepted system to validate myself, but I know that is not what I am searching for. There's a lot I still need to learn and try.


Question is: how much you are willing to give up your personal freedom when it comes to issues related to your 9. The things you wrote up there. You don't come off as an Sx/Sp at all, although lately I've seen a 4w5 + 9 ENTP video who talks about not wanting any authority above himself. My 4w3 allows authority in terms of artistic decisions. I'm more self-deprecative on that side. Even with my 6 I tend to wait and listen. But my Sx/Sp 1 is crazy and creates trouble all the time. Well, not all the time since I'm good at controlling it now but before I sabotaged myself a lot.








> I don't get how you work out the order of the types though. Like why is 9w1 before 4w5? When I am stable I behave like a 9, but I don't relate with 9 as much as I do with 4. And I think 7 plays a quite important role in my personality.


Then check out typology central. There's a guy there with a progressively accurate test of tritype order. Since the 4's descriptions were so obvious, I could play it down in my answers and got a 361. Instead of a 4w3 6 1. But other tests I tried didn't get my tritype which I only now bc when scrolling I stopped by, for some reason, at 468, "the truth teller," underneath which was 461 and I figured, since that sounds closer, I'd settle w/ that. Later I realized that the I have all of those Enneatypes and the order is not off either, the one you're trying to hide the most is closer to your core motivation so that comes first. Still, that wasn't explicit in the guy's test (for me to be able to trick the test) so I think he must really have a comprehensive understanding of most of the tritypes.

[Tritype] Questioning my whole Enneagram and I got this tritype.



> I'd like to be crazy, be it tortured artists or mad scientists XD
> 
> So you want to end the discussion? It's been good talking with you, I will miss you


Well, that's the thing. You are not one. You are not a "dark infp," you just aspire to become one, one day. Of course intensity doesn't always mean dark, still I don't feel that with you. Sometimes E9s can really annoy me with their complacency. Hard to really move them. Shake them up. So I don't see why I'd be motivated to keep it going. I'm a 4w3, you know, the one that wants to be validated, reassured, admired, celebrated, hailed as some genius, put on a pedestal, won the nobel prize, oscar, elected president, both feet washed, and hyperboles crashing through the sky all into the infinite cosmos. I'm such an egoist.
I'm sorry. :/


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