# INFP needs to be loved. How do you find a TRUE LOVER? (INFP & 4)



## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

I am researching how to find a healthier, serious, fantastic partner.

Where? When? How?

Starting as an *"unhealthy" INFP and 4w3. 22 years old.* Introverted, idealistic, perfectionistic means I don't interact with (or want to interact with) as many people as others (and means my reality isn't the next person's). Although I have maintained dedication to a 6-month no-dating policy (I am at 3.5 mo) in order to help me become healthier, loving to myself, stop trying to use others to make me feel better, I am scared of my patterns of *self-sabotage*, rushing in, fear, and rushing out. I am also a *perfectionist* toward myself and others-- this doesn't help-- and terrified of *abandonment* so I need someone loyal. Man or woman. Must give positive reinforcement & be demonstrative.

I admit I haven't seen a relationship modeled for me; I want to learn. I just want someone [beautiful] to be there for me, hold, stand up for and help me. (Maybe a 3.) (*I switch between wanting extrovert -or- introvert...* E: bold & power (absolutely can*not *be a wimp) & social -or- I: appreciation of nonverbal & understanding.)

Please share if you have some input. Thank you! (I.e. School, work, coffee shop? (not club) What country? I will move! What time in life/year/day? Do I start the conversation? Do I act uninterested? Do I play hard to get? Make others jump through hoops?)


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

la_di_da said:


> I am researching how to find a healthier, serious, fantastic partner.
> 
> Where? When? How?
> 
> ...


They say ENFJ is the best male partner for the INFP female.

ENFJ's can talk about feelings and encourage you to carry out your great ideas and be loyal attentive partners.

The best thing for all people though is to have your own life and activities that you enjoy doing, to feel satisfied with your life and to love yourself. And for INFP's to realize that not all people have as deep feelings as INFP's do, and not to expect them to.

So those are some of the pointers.

Another pointer would be no one is perfect regardless of type, in all relationships we have to deal with and face our own flaws and others flaws, to be ready to forgive others regardless. When we forgive others we set our soul free. When we don't forgive we keep our soul in bondage.

No life is perfect no where. We INFP's are such idealists, we want our perfect partner/soul mate, there is no one perfect, and no place perfect, we have to fully grasp this. There is no ideal life.

Choice is, live alone in an imperfect life, or live with a partner in an imperfect life. There is no ideal and perfect life. It's all about give and take, sacrifice, compromise and forgiveness and patience, love.

Hope that helps


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## AST (Oct 1, 2013)

ESTJ 3 or 8


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

Dreamer777 said:


> They say ENFJ is the best male partner for the INFP female.
> 
> ENFJ's can talk about feelings and encourage you to carry out your great ideas and be loyal attentive partners.
> 
> ...


Yes, sometimes I don't know if alone or with someone in the imperfect world is better because it needs to be an extraordinary person. Only found one and he was codependent, temperamental, phobic, extremely emotionally abusive, over 2x my age, controlling, possessive 8 or 3. I still love him. I can only try to let go and look to the rest of the world with a crumb of hope. Thank you though. I sometimes feel inadequate with Es though.



AST said:


> ESTJ 3 or 8


Where are they and how does one engage? I looked up 8-- new to enneagram. Yes!! I'd love that. Eights are "self-confident, strong, and assertive... protective, resourceful, straight-talking, and decisive, but can also be ego-centric and domineering. Eights feel they must control their environment, especially people, sometimes becoming confrontational and intimidating... problems with their tempers..." Problem is I don't think Eights will go for me as an INFP plus they may scare me.
...My ex sounds like 8 or 3.


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## AST (Oct 1, 2013)

I don't know. I'm simply offering the (theoretically) psychologically most compatible profile. The dual of Fi-Ne is Te-Si (ESTJ). ENFJ (Fe-Ni) is extinguishment. So, the "they" who say ENFJ is the best match for INFP don't know what they're talking about.

Then again, this IS MBTI. 

What else should you expect?


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> I am researching how to find a healthier, serious, fantastic partner.
> 
> Where? When? How?
> 
> ...


You seriously cannot expect someones alleged alphabet listing to tell you what kind of relationship you are going to have. Especially since typing is a very personal thing normally. 

You cannot expect someone to be your entire world. You need to be happy alone and in love with yourself before you even consider. I commend you committing to six months to heal but it sounds like you need to be a bit more introspective in conquering your demons. Wanting to throw it in and figure out how to hunt the right knight after 3.5 months and being terrified of abandonment is not a good place to start. The more attached you become the more neurotic you will be. 

Better find a way to handle those fears and the desire to be the center of their universe first. 

Also to be there for you? What about learning who they are, ascertaining differences and not just loving a projection or anima/animus. Building intimacy naturally instead of expecting them to hold your hand and build you a disney princess castle. A relationship goes both ways and a lot of it involves humbling yourself lovingingly, communication, encouragement and independence. 

You want to be catnip for a partner. Be madly in love with yourself, know yourself, passionate about your studies, work and hobbies and handle your own shit until they have earned the right to be "there for you" or see you vulnerable. Don't ever go looking for someone to heal you. Everyone has their baggage it must go both ways or its not "true love" 


Best of luck.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

LeoCat said:


> Don't ever go looking for someone to heal you.


^Keepin' it real. Yup, I am just frustrated that I don't heal. You are right. You are right. P.S. 3.5 months is a hell of a long time for me.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

la_di_da said:


> I am scared of my patterns of *self-sabotage*, rushing in, fear, and rushing out. I am also a *perfectionist* toward myself and others-- this doesn't help-- and terrified of *abandonment* so I need someone loyal. Man or woman. Must give positive reinforcement & be demonstrative.


I think it's great that you are taking a break to become healthier. I also have a fear of abandonment. And I think that nurturing and loving yourself is a great thing to do. After all, what is an abandoned person other than someone who is not getting their needs fulfilled (like, imagine an abandoned child who depends on their parents to fulfill their needs...though as adults we become the ones responsible for fulfilling our own needs, but it can be hard if your blueprint is one of abandonment). 

I see your a very new member, and I'm not completely certain of my type or of anyone's, for that matter, but I've been noticing that my own great fears can trigger more of an "inferior grip" or "eruption." So, like...I might get a little off balance if I don't understand something in a Te sense, but a whole lot more off balance if it's related to some fear like abandonment or being taken advantage of. 

So, maybe you can look at http://personalitycafe.com/infp-articles/76770-recognizing-inferior-function-ifps.html and see if that might be part of your pattern of "self sabotage." 

And just for logistics, I think "taking it slow" is always a good path. Not only does it give you a chance to really get to know the person you're interested in, but it also doubles as appearing to be "playing hard to get," without being manipulative. If you are taking it slow, you can act normal and express feelings, but hold back, and try to gauge your own comfort level and create conservative boundaries for intimacy, instead of rushing in. 

If you are healthy and taking care of yourself, being able to find and react to the true lover will be easier, because your feelings will tell you.

Anyway, I've just been thinking about some similar issues for myself, so I hope it helps!


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## HellCat (Jan 17, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> ^Keepin' it real. Yup, I am just frustrated that I don't heal. You are right. You are right. P.S. 3.5 months is a hell of a long time for me.


If you ever want to talk it out. I am happy to listen. I'm sharp tongued and blunt. A lot of people don't like what I see and then freak out.


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## CorrosiveThoughts (Dec 2, 2013)

You want another person to substitute for your flaws, and show power where you show fear. I see you've done away with all of that pesky self-improvement that most people concern themselves with.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Trying to improve yourself is a wonderful thing so I wouldn't worry about finding the perfect match on paper.
I understand why you do it, I can't lie and say that I haven't flirted with the idea, but it's still a self-sabotaging worry that might set you back in your old ways.

I could agree that both ESTJ and ENFJ could fit, depending whether you want someone rougher or gentler but wouldn't it be better to trust your intuition and how you feel about a particular someone? I don't like the idea of looking for someone specific because if the chemistry is there, you might be finding what you need in places you'd least expect.

Once you have a type, you won't need guidance. Listen to your inner voice and let those chemicals react! 
Take care.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

la_di_da said:


> I am researching how to find a healthier, serious, fantastic partner.
> 
> Where? When? How?
> 
> ...


It's good that you're taking time to better yourself. It wouldn't be fair to throw your broken self into a relationship with someone. Plus if you don't have your shit together you're likely to attract a partner that also doesn't have their shit together and your relationship will suffer no matter what personality type. Unhealthy individuals can't really express the best aspects of their personality. Honestly I'm sure your a nice person but I would be very turned off by all this inner pain and disharmony you bring. @LeoCat said it best. You don't need someone to 'heal' you. When you know you can stand on your own two feet without depending someone else and still be happy THEN you are ready for a real relationship. Otherwise , you're just going to attract broken people who are terrible in relationships or just want sex making fixing yourself even harder.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

AST said:


> I don't know. I'm simply offering the (theoretically) psychologically most compatible profile. The dual of Fi-Ne is Te-Si (ESTJ). ENFJ (Fe-Ni) is extinguishment. So, the "they" who say ENFJ is the best match for INFP don't know what they're talking about.
> 
> Then again, this IS MBTI.
> 
> What else should you expect?


Yeah, so they say i've read on some articles about ENFJ males being best for INFP females or all NF's for INFP's for that matter.

ESTJ is in my opinion foolishness for INFP. So see, i guess socionics told you that, so "they" say.

The reason i say "foolishness" is because ESTJ and INFP quarrel very intensely over emotions verses logical stuff. ESTJ's are too overwhelming and overbearing for INFP's. They may want us, but we don't want them!

Honestly, and not because you're an ISTP i say this, as a matter of fact it's intriguing that you are an ISTP, because me as an INFP woman is only attracted to ISTP men. 

That's why it's important to have our own activities and interests and love our self and be satisfied with our own life, cause to love an ISTP who need alot of space and are not emotional able to speak with INFP's on an emotional level, you betcha it's important to have our own lives that satisfy us and love ourself. 

Now, being that you're an ISTP, i have a question for ya: Why are ISTP guys drawn to INFP gals? (In my life experience, the 2 are like magnets to each other.


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## AST (Oct 1, 2013)

@Dreamer777

Except that Socionics actually explains how the process of dualization works (I also have firsthand experience with the concept in practice- I married an ENFJ, my dual). MBTI relationship suggestions have yet to provide any basis except in stereotypes. Although a dual relationship is operating under a few premises that not every person is looking for, so there is that. Expectations, and all that.

And I don't think you understand ISTPs. ISTPs tend to be very self-sufficient and expect the same out of our partners. If you're dependent upon our approval, support, or whatever it may be to be emotionally content, then yeah, you're going to have a hard time. And yeah, we are going to want space away from that. That doesn't mean we need space from you just because you're a human being and we hate people (false stereotype). And yes, we can understand emotions, we just don't place as high an importance on it and communicating on that level doesn't work as naturally. We prefer logic and solutions to your problems.

Maybe in your experience, but I cannot stand INFPs. Every INFP I've met is a wonderful person, but the values and goals that they tend to have just trigger my "fuuuck that" reaction. Make it INFJ, and then you're talking. INFP, though, nah.


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## VoodooDolls (Jul 30, 2013)

big boobs


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Sometimes I forget that PerC is a dating site.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Work on yourself. Be the best person you know how to be. When you are ready, that person will appear before you. It is likely they are working on themselves right now, as well.


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## HandiAce (Nov 27, 2009)

la_di_da said:


> Starting as an *"unhealthy" INFP and 4w3. 22 years old.* Introverted, idealistic, perfectionistic means I don't interact with (or want to interact with) as many people as others (and means my reality isn't the next person's). Although I have maintained dedication to a 6-month no-dating policy (I am at 3.5 mo) in order to help me become healthier, loving to myself, stop trying to use others to make me feel better, I am scared of my patterns of *self-sabotage*, rushing in, fear, and rushing out. I am also a *perfectionist* toward myself and others-- this doesn't help-- and terrified of *abandonment* so I need someone loyal. Man or woman. Must give positive reinforcement & be demonstrative.


Forever alone you shall be.

First tackle your insecurities. Be more comfortable in your own flesh. If a guy detects that you're unhealthy and too insecure, he will back off from you.

Also regarding perfectionism, nobody should set out for a perfect life, only a better one.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Kink said:


> Sometimes I forget that PerC is a dating site.


Not only a dating site.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

AST said:


> @Dreamer777
> 
> Except that Socionics actually explains how the process of dualization works (I also have firsthand experience with the concept in practice- I married an ENFJ, my dual). MBTI relationship suggestions have yet to provide any basis except in stereotypes. Although a dual relationship is operating under a few premises that not every person is looking for, so there is that. Expectations, and all that.
> 
> ...


how can you say they are wonderful people if you can't stand them, that is a real contradictory answer. Well, idk, all i do know is that ISTP men attract to me like bees to nectar, i have no explanation for it, it's just the way it's always been in my life. I had the best guy 25 years ago, he was an ISTP, but unfortunately i didn't know of MBTI til a few years ago. i think it would have made me not break up that relationship as i was the one who did, we were together 4 years, living together for the full 4 years from the get go. wow, i can't tell you how much i have regretted breaking up that relationship. But anyhows, throughout the years it's mostly ISTP guys that attract to me. i don't know why then, you say you can't stand INFP's, so, who knows?


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

meltedsorbet said:


> I think it's great that you are taking a break to become healthier. I also have a fear of abandonment. And I think that nurturing and loving yourself is a great thing to do. After all, what is an abandoned person other than someone who is not getting their needs fulfilled (like, imagine an abandoned child who depends on their parents to fulfill their needs...though as adults we become the ones responsible for fulfilling our own needs, but it can be hard if your blueprint is one of abandonment).
> 
> I see your a very new member, and I'm not completely certain of my type or of anyone's, for that matter, but I've been noticing that my own great fears can trigger more of an "inferior grip" or "eruption." So, like...I might get a little off balance if I don't understand something in a Te sense, but a whole lot more off balance if it's related to some fear like abandonment or being taken advantage of.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I combat my fear of abandonment by engaging in many romantic relationships at the same time. Something that is incredibly hard to break but I need to be monogamous if I indeed want to find someone like-minded. Recent partners have not been keepers to say the least. I like the taking it slow but not necessarily facade. I'm afraid of ppl getting to know me and not liking me. 




LeoCat said:


> If you ever want to talk it out. I am happy to listen. I'm sharp tongued and blunt. A lot of people don't like what I see and then freak out.


Yeah, I did freak at first. Thx.



Bugs said:


> It's good that you're taking time to better yourself. It wouldn't be fair to throw your broken self into a relationship with someone. Plus if you don't have your shit together you're likely to attract a partner that also doesn't have their shit together and your relationship will suffer no matter what personality type. Unhealthy individuals can't really express the best aspects of their personality. Honestly I'm sure your a nice person but I would be very turned off by all this inner pain and disharmony you bring. @LeoCat said it best. You don't need someone to 'heal' you. When you know you can stand on your own two feet without depending someone else and still be happy THEN you are ready for a real relationship. Otherwise , you're just going to attract broken people who are terrible in relationships or just want sex making fixing yourself even harder.


Thank you yes, been there and done that and it doesn't work. At the same time, I do need intimacy to comfort me. You're right the people with inner pain flock to me and it's scary plus Enneagram 4 is hard to confront and say no.



AST said:


> Make it INFJ, and then you're talking. INFP, though, nah.


I'm borderline INFP/J. Show up as J on some tests.



DonutsGalacticos said:


> big boobs



I know you are being facetious but that actually makes it _IMPOSSIBLE_ to find the true lover. I should know.



Dreamer777 said:


> how can you say they are wonderful people if you can't stand them, that is a real contradictory answer.


Thank you!!! >


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## AST (Oct 1, 2013)

Functions > Dichotomies. INFJ (Ni + Fe) and INFP (Fi + Ne) are worlds apart.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

la_di_da said:


> Yeah, I combat my fear of abandonment by engaging in many romantic relationships at the same time. Something that is incredibly hard to break but I need to be monogamous if I indeed want to find someone like-minded. Recent partners have not been keepers to say the least. I like the taking it slow but not necessarily facade. I'm afraid of ppl getting to know me and not liking me.


I'm sure you know that not everyone will like you. It is that fact that some will and some won't which can inform you to who really does like you for who you are, and who appreciates your vision of who you want to be. 

Taking it slow is an action. It doesn't mean you have to pretend not to be interested (or make yourself feel like that). You can still be interested in someone and take it slow if you choose to. You can desperately want someone to love you, and still allot time and space to yourself. I'm sure you've learned a lot about yourself from those relationships, but maybe you can take the time to process that somewhat before investing yourself in another person. IDK. I think we do need relationships to learn how to be in them, but taking time for introspecting is also useful. It's always easier said than done though.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

AST said:


> Functions > Dichotomies. INFJ (Ni + Fe) and INFP (Fi + Ne) are worlds apart.


There are percentages and if you are close to 50-50, it seems like you are not so polar. Your kitty avatar is pretty cute btw.



meltedsorbet said:


> I'm sure you know that not everyone will like you. It is that fact that some will and some won't which can inform you to who really does like you for who you are, and who appreciates your vision of who you want to be.
> 
> Taking it slow is an action. It doesn't mean you have to pretend not to be interested (or make yourself feel like that). You can still be interested in someone and take it slow if you choose to. You can desperately want someone to love you, and still allot time and space to yourself. I'm sure you've learned a lot about yourself from those relationships, but maybe you can take the time to process that somewhat before investing yourself in another person. IDK. I think we do need relationships to learn how to be in them, but taking time for introspecting is also useful. It's always easier said than done though.


People used to say dating is supposed to be good, healthy, learning experience but I don't understand that. I did not learn a whole lot. Tore myself up and "broke" my own heart before it is even over, and dump the other person prematurely. Yes, @meltedsorbet, not everyone will love you. I will save these forums and re-read them when I get like this. 0 Are you dating? How is it with similar fears?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

la_di_da said:


> People used to say dating is supposed to be good, healthy, learning experience but I don't understand that. I did not learn a whole lot. Tore myself up and "broke" my own heart before it is even over, and dump the other person prematurely. Yes, @_meltedsorbet_, not everyone will love you. I will save these forums and re-read them when I get like this. 0 Are you dating? How is it with similar fears?


I entered into an abusive relationship when I was about 22-23 and I haven't dated or been physically intimate with anyone for three years, since I left him. I have a bit too much baggage right now and it wouldn't be fair or functional to try to date. Friendships--fine. But nothing physically intimate.

I have been trying to focus on rebuilding myself. I've had some successes lately! And I found that releasing myself from isolation can be very helpful for my personal growth. But certainly, I would suffer if I were to rush into a physical relationship with someone. There is so much to myself that I've forgotten or neglected. I enjoy the energy I can reserve for myself now. Though I still aspire to nurture myself in more ways. I also still want to care for others, but in a more direct, impersonal way.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

meltedsorbet said:


> I entered into an abusive relationship when I was about 22-23 and I haven't dated or been physically intimate with anyone for three years, since I left him. I have a bit too much baggage right now and it wouldn't be fair or functional to try to date. Friendships--fine. But nothing physically intimate.
> 
> I have been trying to focus on rebuilding myself. I've had some successes lately! And I found that releasing myself from isolation can be very helpful for my personal growth. But certainly, I would suffer if I were to rush into a physical relationship with someone. There is so much to myself that I've forgotten or neglected. I enjoy the energy I can reserve for myself now. Though I still aspire to nurture myself in more ways. I also still want to care for others, but in a more direct, impersonal way.


Platonic, I think was the word you were looking for in that last sentence. I didn't know you were so young! Shocked. I'm glad you are getting better.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

meltedsorbet said:


> I entered into an abusive relationship when I was about 22-23 and I haven't dated or been physically intimate with anyone for three years, since I left him. I have a bit too much baggage right now and it wouldn't be fair or functional to try to date. Friendships--fine. But nothing physically intimate.
> 
> I have been trying to focus on rebuilding myself. I've had some successes lately! And I found that releasing myself from isolation can be very helpful for my personal growth. But certainly, I would suffer if I were to rush into a physical relationship with someone. There is so much to myself that I've forgotten or neglected. I enjoy the energy I can reserve for myself now. Though I still aspire to nurture myself in more ways. I also still want to care for others, but in a more direct, impersonal way.


I'm sorry to hear that.  Are INFPs and/or 4s prone to attracting and staying in abusive relationships. Well 3 years is a long time to have baggage. That's frightful. I can relate. Age 18-21 (2-year break in between) in a bad situation. Yes, release from isolation and getting out there (with supportive people) helps me too. 



meltedsorbet said:


> Though I still aspire to nurture myself in more ways. I also still want to care for others, but in a more direct, impersonal way.


What does that mean?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Stelliferous said:


> Platonic, I think was the word you were looking for in that last sentence. I didn't know you were so young! Shocked. I'm glad you are getting better.


*smiles* I am not that young! I WAS young when I entered into the relationship that became abusive...it lasted six years. I am 31. Thank you. I suppose platonic might be the word, but I also like to care for injured birds and things that have nothing to do with friendship. (Which is what I associate with the word platonic.)



la_di_da said:


> I'm sorry to hear that.  Are INFPs and/or 4s prone to attracting and staying in abusive relationships. Well 3 years is a long time to have baggage. That's frightful. I can relate. Age 18-21 (2-year break in between) in a bad situation. Yes, release from isolation and getting out there (with supportive people) helps me too.
> 
> 
> What does that mean?


I don't know...There have been some threads on INFPs and abuse. INFPs can avoid conflict and also seem "weak" to some people of the other types. They can also be loyal...but that's all just generalizations and IDK if it's based on the MBTI theory. INFPs do have inferior Te, which might mean that they don't analyze their relationships objectively very well, but follow feelings. 

Really, the nature of abusive relationships can ensnare any type--it's not as simple as many people think, and it's not something you want to find yourself trying to deal with. So it's probably best to try to heal yourself, and be aware of the warning signs.

Three years is a lot of time to have baggage, but as you get older you may encounter more traumas than you've dealt with in childhood, especially if you don't resolve them (and if you have an issue with abandonment, you probably did have some neglect or trauma in childhood to help cultivate that). Abusive relationships tend to leave their own baggage. Three years isn't so much compared to one's childhood or abuse.

It means that I want to nurture myself, but I also enjoy helping others, even if I don't attempt to open myself to intimate romantic relationships by dating.


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## Purrfessor (Jul 30, 2013)

meltedsorbet said:


> *smiles* I am not that young! I WAS young when I entered into the relationship that became abusive...it lasted six years. I am 31. Thank you. I suppose platonic might be the word, but I also like to care for injured birds and things that have nothing to do with friendship. (Which is what I associate with the word platonic.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, I read it wrong. I was off by about six years because of the way I read/assumed. Still, 31 is young.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Stelliferous said:


> Ah, I read it wrong. I was off by about six years because of the way I read/assumed. Still, 31 is young.


*laughing* Don't worry about it. I agree, 31 is still young. Not as young, for sure.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> I am researching how to find a healthier, serious, fantastic partner.
> 
> Where? When? How?
> 
> ...


My mental disorder detector detects high levels of schizophrenia in this post.

On the serious note, if you have to start acting differently in order to attract a romantic partner, you are doing something wrong. Just be as you are. If you can't act normally around a love interest, you have to start meeting more people, until you feel comfortable enough to act as yourself.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

From what I have seen in my life, it seems like successful relationships usually seem to arise most from shared contexts - basically any socialization based on shared interests. It seems to work better for people who are trying to socialize while following their personal interests (job, career, extracurriculars, etc.), rather than explicitly trying to date. So like... school yes... work yes... coffee shop if conversations arise organically... I love volunteering locally, you tend to work with people but it's lower-key... and everyone tends to have strong humanitarian values... I've heard before that love tends to "find you" when you're living your life and that really seems to be true from what I've seen. 

As for behavior... I used to try to pose myself and shape myself into whatever the other person would want most. I made a rule to try not to though because it never seemed to get me anywhere. Just being myself seemed - very counterintuitively - to work better.


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## AST (Oct 1, 2013)

@la_di_da

On a cursory inspection, INFP and INFJ would appear similar, but the essence is much different.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

KraChZiMan said:


> My mental disorder detector detects high levels of schizophrenia in this post.
> 
> On the serious note, if you have to start acting differently in order to attract a romantic partner, you are doing something wrong. Just be as you are. If you can't act normally around a love interest, you have to start meeting more people, until you feel comfortable enough to act as yourself.


Yes! Just be yourself, otherwise you will be exhausted trying to be someone who you're not! Well said! So true! tell 'em, Hit the road Jack, don't you come back no more no more, lol, jus' kiddin, but seriously, yeah, walk on by and meet more people til you can just laugh smile and be free to be you and they like you just that way! (not sayin a relationship don't take some effort, compromise, sacrifice, determined commitment, but it should feel GOOD most of the time, ya know? not like a dang drain headache all the time, hell no! :wink:


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

angelfish said:


> From what I have seen in my life, it seems like successful relationships usually seem to arise most from shared contexts - basically any socialization based on shared interests. It seems to work better for people who are trying to socialize while following their personal interests (job, career, extracurriculars, etc.), rather than explicitly trying to date. So like... school yes... work yes... coffee shop if conversations arise organically... I love volunteering locally, you tend to work with people but it's lower-key... and everyone tends to have strong humanitarian values... I've heard before that love tends to "find you" when you're living your life and that really seems to be true from what I've seen.
> 
> As for behavior... I used to try to pose myself and shape myself into whatever the other person would want most. I made a rule to try not to though because it never seemed to get me anywhere. Just being myself seemed - very counterintuitively - to work better.


Yes, Yes and Yes! :happy:

And i have often thought of the volunteer thing as in the greatest way to find a very compatible partner. So glad you mentioned that, cause i believe it's so fantastically true! Great post!


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

Dreamer777 said:


> Yes, Yes and Yes! :happy:
> 
> And i have often thought of the volunteer thing as in the greatest way to find a very compatible partner. So glad you mentioned that, cause i believe it's so fantastically true! Great post!


 @angelfish Thanks too.

Oh I do volunteering and I have _never _met some in this arena. Oh well, glad it works for you all. Yes, I'm starting to understand something this week: I can be whoever I am at this moment and that is right for me. It doesn't have to be wrong or right. No grand narrative to fit into. If I have one life, why can't I live it as I choose and "cure myself" however I see fit? I have scars and they're there whether healed or not.

*Feeling a bit more peaceful*


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## Lucyintheskyyy (Jul 25, 2013)

you don't look for love... you find it. if whoever you fall in love with is inconvenient, then it is up to you to reject your feelings (although that can be a *little bit* difficult).


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jun 6, 2014)

I think the title of this thread should be changed to how do you become a true lover


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

Lucyintheskyyy said:


> you don't look for love... you find it. if whoever you fall in love with is inconvenient, then it is up to you to reject your feelings (although that can be a *little bit* difficult).


Just a *little bit* hehe :wink:



Tezcatlipoca said:


> I think the title of this thread should be changed to how do you become a true lover


Based on the posts, I guess. It seems harder for people to offer something about attracting another person. 
Alright, any suggestions?


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I have no idea.
I've been working on this for a long time myself.
Do not pick an ISFP though that is not a very bright idea.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

hornet said:


> I have no idea.
> I've been working on this for a long time myself.
> Do not pick an ISFP though that is not a very bright idea.


LOL! Good to see I'm not alone. :]
Why do you say ISFP is bad? I think they are bad for INFP though yeah.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

la_di_da said:


> LOL! Good to see I'm not alone. :]
> Why do you say ISFP is bad? I think they are bad for INFP though yeah.


Pictures say more than a 1000 words.
And are so much more energy efficient.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

la_di_da said:


> It seems harder for people to offer something about attracting another person.


Yeah. Because we don't know if the right person is around you. And if they're not, you don't want to play games that attract someone incompatible. 

IMO, be joyfully yourself. Be sweet, creative, compassionate, thoughtful, idealistic, dedicated, and authentic. Be genuinely interested in others' lives and struggles. Have something exciting to share with the universe, have exciting things going on in your life because you want them to be, so that when people talk to you they find you engaging and interesting. Push yourself to casually socialize with men you find attractive and learn how to enjoy talking to them regardless of whether you would like to date them or not. It might be easier to start with guys who aren't very attractive to you, then work your way up. I did not learn this skill until after I got into a relationship and I realize now that it would have made my single life so much easier and happier. And if you really want to go on a date with a guy, but aren't sure how he'll respond, you could invite him to go get coffee or casual food with you when you are going to get it anyway. If he declines, it is not particularly awkward since it was just a casual invitation and you have an easy exit, and you can still go enjoy your coffee/food.


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## ElliCat (May 4, 2014)

angelfish said:


> IMO, be joyfully yourself. Be sweet, creative, compassionate, thoughtful, idealistic, dedicated, and authentic.


 @la_di_da I've seen this person in the few PMs we've exchanged!! Find her, recognise her, embrace her! 

Strong, confident, intelligent men aren't interested in little girls who play games and rely too much on them. Show them that you know who you are and want you want from life (even if it's just that you don't know.... heh). Prove to them that you can make time and space for them without getting caught up in your own struggles. I know and you know that _this_ is the reason you're making yourself remain single. You need to learn how to define yourself without relying on another person. You can't fake healthy. Even if you succeed for a while, it'll start leaking out and things will get messy.



> And if you really want to go on a date with a guy, but aren't sure how he'll respond, you could invite him to go get coffee or casual food with you when you are going to get it anyway. If he declines, you go get your coffee/food yourself, it is not particularly awkward since it was just a casual invitation and you have an easy exit, and you can still enjoy your coffee/food.


Oh I love this suggestion! I can see it now - smiling and saying, "no worries" and walking away anyway, head held high.


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## jasakki (Jun 23, 2014)

Hi, trying to rationalize which type is the best for you isn't going to work. Basicly any type can be *the one* for you if you are healthy enough. Te-types can represent your anima and Fe-types can take care of your needs, but that isn't enough if you are unhealthy.

I've been together with INFP 4w3 for over two years now. The relationship is so much more about same sense of humor and interests than the type. You are still very very young and it sounds like you still have a lot to learn about life, and that only comes with time


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

angelfish said:


> Yeah. Because we don't know if the right person is around you. And if they're not, you don't want to play games that attract someone incompatible.
> 
> IMO, be joyfully yourself. Be sweet, creative, compassionate, thoughtful, idealistic, dedicated, and authentic. Be genuinely interested in others' lives and struggles. Have something exciting to share with the universe, have exciting things going on in your life because you want them to be, so that when people talk to you they find you engaging and interesting. Push yourself to casually socialize with men you find attractive and learn how to enjoy talking to them regardless of whether you would like to date them or not. It might be easier to start with guys who aren't very attractive to you, then work your way up. I did not learn this skill until after I got into a relationship and I realize now that it would have made my single life so much easier and happier. And if you really want to go on a date with a guy, but aren't sure how he'll respond, you could invite him to go get coffee or casual food with you when you are going to get it anyway. If he declines, it is not particularly awkward since it was just a casual invitation and you have an easy exit, and you can still go enjoy your coffee/food.


Aww this is great! Thank you. I will keep on being me instead of changing/warping to fit some imagined person.



ElliCat said:


> I've seen this person in the few PMs we've exchanged!! Find her, recognise her, embrace her!
> 
> Strong, confident, intelligent men aren't interested in little girls who play games and rely too much on them. Show them that you know who you are and want you want from life (even if it's just that you don't know.... heh). Prove to them that you can make time and space for them without getting caught up in your own struggles. I know and you know that _this_ is the reason you're making yourself remain single. You need to learn how to define yourself without relying on another person. You can't fake healthy. Even if you succeed for a while, it'll start leaking out and things will get messy.
> 
> ...


Yes, I can see it too! And yes even if I succeed short-term trying to cover it out, it's going to leak out and make a mess of things. @ElliCat @jasakki

*SO TRUE!* THANK YOU. YOUR SIMPLE REPLY WAS JUST WHAT I NEEDED TO HEAR.
!!!


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## FinishesEverythi (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi there. 

I am currently dating an INFP, so this thread jumped out at me. My opinion is that you are too caught up in your own self-analytical vicious circle. You are striving to perfect yourself, and to work out what 'must be' wrong.

I would argue that if you'd like to 'be loved' and to find 'a true partner' then 90% of what you need to do is to realise that you are who you are. To the right person you will be everything that _is_ right. Stop worrying about yourself, as perfection in a relationship is about actually loving all the so-called _imperfections_ in someone else, as well as all the text-book good stuff. 

I believe you will find someone if you can become a girl who knows who she is, whoever that may be, and is happy with it. Someone with the intelligence to know that a life spent worrying about details you cannot control is pointless, and that the most important thing is having fun. 

Personally I'm really enjoying dating an INFP, I find her extremely calming and peaceful to talk to. She will surprise me, keep me on my toes, challenge what I say and can spend ages debating pointless and irrelevant hypothetical situations. 

Revel in your imperfections, they make you different. It's so easy to say I know, but try to break out of your unhealthy tendency to self-assess and start believing more that you will find someone if you stop looking in and start looking out.

That's my advice! Hopefully there's something in it and you don't think it's total bullshit  All the best.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

FinishesEverythi said:


> Hi there.
> 
> I am currently dating an INFP, so this thread jumped out at me. My opinion is that you are too caught up in your own self-analytical vicious circle. You are striving to perfect yourself, and to work out what 'must be' wrong.
> 
> ...


i like your reply and think it's very good! 

(and ps.. your cupcake is on top of ur head! lol  jus' kiddin around


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## euro4 (Jun 21, 2014)

Kink said:


> Sometimes I forget that PerC is a dating site.


is it? I did not know ...


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Hey there,

Reading this has brought back some memories...

I'm an ENTJ type 3 and pretty much had in common, most of what you've said, I've also done most of what you've mentioned too, I'll try and share my experience and see if this helps.

Excuse my supposed lack of Fe as it is my last function 

I was in a similar situation to yourself and wanted what you wanted so I really "researched" and "studied" this thing called "love", I asked myself a lot of critical questions and questioned why I think I want it etc... I've also questioned it's very existence and it's purpose. 

I won't go into details but the basic summary of what I got from a lot of thinking and approaching it from different angles, observing, researching, experience etc... is that;

Sometimes, to find true love, one must first show true love. This means you have to put away all your fears, past baggage, insecurities and really love the other person. This is seriously difficult to do and I've not yet succeeded in doing this but have come a long way.

What helped me to continue trying was to admit that to love and be loved by future S.O was something I wanted the most so I've now got a dream/goal.

Deliverables were things like how to improve myself to match/attract the other person etc... I won't go into details as it will be too long a post.

Next was to know what to do should I fail in my attempt in which I've summarized down to 2 things.

*1.* Don't take baggage accumulated from previous relationships into the next one, start every relationship with pure intentions and give each new person equal opportunity as the previous, love with all that you have and don't hold back. Of course look for red flags etc... and don't turn a blind eye but you get the gist of it.

*2.* Take every failure as a learning experience but take it seriously, reflect on what you can do to improve yourself for the next relationship, don't dwell in self pity and don't focus on the ex, focus on who is to become the one.

That was the most basic summary from what I've learned and my experiences if you don't want to read the wall of text below 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most people refer to "love" as one of theres 2 types.

*1.* One of which is purely selfless defined beautifully in 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 as 

_"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

_Although this kind of love is almost extinct, it should still theoretically exist, not as perfect as the description but as far as humans are capable of.

*2.* The second is more of a "love" which requires reciprocation, compared to the selfless love, we can refer to this as "conditional love" or love which requires some sort of exchange/requirements. _Generally, pretty much all couples (99.99%? lol) fall into this category. _

Since you want to find someone to "love you", the first step is to your goal is to clearly define what you are really expecting from this person, what you are looking for, or if you are unsure, at least be able to identify whether you are expecting a selfless love or a conditional love from this person. 

_Now you're probably catching on, "conditional love" means you NEED to understand what these conditions are. But how do you know what you want without trying/experimenting/learning/experiencing? ----> This will become a contradicting dilemma soon. _



la_di_da said:


> I am researching how to find a healthier, serious, fantastic partner.
> Where? When? How?


I went through the mistake of trying to pin point/narrow down and systematically approach this subject since I hate wanting something but not knowing what to do to get it. _(Although having a structure/system and trying to do something about it certainly does help, theres no single right/wrong answer so it's confusing as hell)
_
I've learned that loving someone else is entirely in your control but receiving love or getting reciprocation, that is something that you simply cannot control. I've always hated this for a long time and even tried to dismiss it as something that "doesn't work" but to no avail, I guess it proves that I'm human .



> Starting as an *"unhealthy" INFP and 4w3. 22 years old.* Introverted, idealistic, perfectionistic means I don't interact with (or want to interact with) as many people as others (and means my reality isn't the next person's).


Like me, you've reflected on yourself and tried to identify everything that you think is limiting your success but from what I see there, it doesn't look too bad. 

Your biggest problem there could be introversion, in a sense, you need to advertise yourself or no one can/would be able to find you.

Not interacting with others could be for a number of reasons, why do you not interact with others? Is it due to pride/looking down on them? Is it because you have social anxiety? It is important to be specific in the elements limiting your success and either mitigate, change or circumvent the issue.

I see no problems with being idealistic and a perfectionist, these help define who you are, there are many who like idealistic, perfectionists as these are the people who have a idea/vision/goal/dream and will work at it until it is perfected, in a sense, it is admirable.



> Although I have maintained dedication to a _6-month no-dating policy_ (I am at 3.5 mo)


I'm not sure where you get these numbers from but I would say that you should never stop "advertising" yourself regardless of your current state as you don't know when you may just find the person you are looking for. _Wouldn't it be a shame if you set a 6 month no dating policy and it just so happens that you met the one during that time but you dismissed it due to this limitation you've put on yourself?
_
To be perfectly honest, if that profile picture is you then my extroverted thinking tells me that you've probably had no problems finding guys interested in you. You simply cannot find the one which meets your expectations which explains this 6 months no dating policy, since opportunity probably comes to you very easily which is both good and bad.

Good in the sense that you've got options, a variety to pick from, you feel like you're always doing something about it like you're moving forward.

Bad in the sense that an appealing physical appearance means increased chance of people after you simply for just that one trait so more to filter out, higher chance of putting all men into the "shallow" category and getting frustrated.



> Me become healthier, loving to myself, stop trying to use others to make me feel better, I am scared of my patterns of *self-sabotage*, rushing in, fear, and rushing out.


It's great that you are trying to improve yourself, we seem to have come to the same conclusion on this part but why can't you improve yourself and still be open to dating at the same time?

You have your pattern of rushing in, fear, and rushing out.

I have my pattern of rushing in, didn't feel adequate reciprocation and rushing out.

_If we look at the beginning and the end, our results are the same, rush in and rush out.

_I've found that slowing down works wonders, don't rush in, take your time, be friends first, trust forms slowly over time and trial, loyalty can only be measured in time, of course you would be scared if you rushed in.

It's also great that you have people that help you feel better, I've always relied on myself for emotional support because thats how I grew up, when no one is there for long enough, you end up fixing yourself. Maybe you should take a look at these people who make you feel better and form a reciprocation back, don't end up like me in this aspect, it will only set you backwards in your goal.



> I am also a *perfectionist* toward myself and others-- this doesn't help-- and terrified of *abandonment* so I need someone loyal. Man or woman. Must give positive reinforcement & be demonstrative.


I grew up in an Asian country (China) where competence was more important than your life, parents, relatives, teachers, pretty much everyone in my life reinforced competence.

I think the easiest way is just to show this meme which is actually pretty funny now lol










That plus the fact that I was always a perfectionist to begin with which meant that I was hard on myself and others thought that I was hard on them too but to me, I was a lot harder on myself than I was on them, they simply didn't know how hard I was on myself 

At first I thought this was a weakness and maybe I should change, if we view all the options, we end up with 4.

1. Be hard + perfectionist to yourself and others equally.
_2. Be hard + perfectionist to yourself but easy on others._
3. Be easy on yourself but hard to others.
4. Be easy on both yourself and others.I later came to the conclusion that; 

#1 is what I probably wanted/expected.
#2 is what I thought would be ideal for everyone/selfless love.
#3 would make everyone hate you.
#4 would remind me of a fun person who does whatever he/she feels like but will have a lack of discipline and not admirable/unable to achieve great things.

So I compromised and took what I wanted which was #1 and tried my best to fulfill #2, I'd say I'm about a 1.5 now .



> I admit I haven't seen a relationship modeled for me; I want to learn. I just want someone [beautiful] to be there for me, hold, stand up for and help me. Terrified of *abandonment* so I need someone loyal.


Now heres the contradicting dilemma I was saying earlier, you don't really know what you want too well so *you want to learn*, *learning means experimenting which equates to trial and error meaning that your fear of abandonment and wanting someone loyal is exactly counter intuitive.* 

You need to decide on either *wanting to find the right person on the first try* who is loyal and loves you on the first try *or do the learn/experimenting thing and keep things more open ended, don't try for both* because;

This is where the contradiction begins, if you deeply want to find someone on the first try then you'll obviously be devastated if it doesn't work out, but at least your aim/goal was right so you can move on and try again.

_If you want to do the learn/experimenting trial and error to understand what you want then don't expect the other person to be so loyal since you aren't really being loyal yourself because part of learning and experimenting with relationships is to try different relationships with different people, this is not loyalty._



> (I.e. School, work, coffee shop? (not club) What country? I will move! What time in life/year/day? Do I start the conversation? Do I act uninterested? Do I play hard to get? Make others jump through hoops?)


This last part here is something that I tried to research and apply, I can tell you that you should scrap every question on there because theres no right or wrong answer.

*Be yourself, say what you want to say, whenever you want, act interested if you are interested, jump hoops if you're willing to, play hard to get if thats who you are and start the conversation if you want to start one.

*I'll give you an example just to show that I'm not blowing hot air.

From research... All these "Should dos" and mind games are usually from the media, articles and people who make money off this (already questionable). But generally they say things like don't be too eager since it makes you seem desperate, play hard to get since "men like the chase" and want what they can't have, don't return calls for at least 24 hrs or 72 hrs or a week or w/e.

Heres what happens in reality.

If you are very eager and you act nonchalant, you will start disliking the other person because you want closeness and more communication but you are forcing/limiting yourself to what you don't want which is more distance and less communication. Very counter productive and illogical. 

*Remember that if you like someone, them showing interest in you is no longer desperate because it is reciprocated, only to someone who doesn't really like you that much will it be a bother.

*Playing hard to get can attract guys who only want you for the "challenge" or "trophy", can also come off as snobby and arrogant.

Generally guys who are genuinely looking for someone for a LTR will not be fond of this behavior since it tells them that later on in the relationship, it will be very one sided, him doing all the work while you play hard to get. Gets old and annoying fast.

Don't even bother with the amount of time you wait before you text b.s, if you like to communicate a lot then look for someone who shares that trait, don't go looking for someone who you are only "attracted" to but have nothing in common with or share any beliefs/traits with.


I hope my experience can provide some insight to your struggles.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> so I need someone loyal. Man or woman. Must give positive reinforcement & be demonstrative.



SP's are very loyal and demonstrative and offer positive reinforcement. In fact, you've pretty well described my ESFP father. But with how you present yourself here, we'd all stampede in the opposite direction. What do you have to offer? It looks like you're offering misery. The best way to have something to offer, is to make yourself happy. Work on yourself, girl. I suppose you could go for an XSTJ. I've dated one of those and they're dutiful enough to feel the need to take you on. But you'd probably make each other miserable. 

I don't think 6 months is long enough if this is only as far as you've come in 3.5 months.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

FinishesEverythi said:


> I would argue that if you'd like to 'be loved' and to find 'a true partner' then 90% of what you need to do is to realise that you are who you are…
> 
> Personally I'm really enjoying dating an INFP, I find her extremely calming and peaceful to talk to. She will surprise me, keep me on my toes, challenge what I say and can spend ages debating pointless and irrelevant hypothetical situations.


Hi! Thanks for the comment and vicious circle is true. Thanks! So INFPs can meet Es- yay! Glad it's going well. 



Termus123 said:


> I was in a similar situation to yourself and wanted what you wanted so I really "researched" and "studied" this thing called "love", I asked myself a lot of critical questions and questioned why I think I want it etc... I've also questioned it's very existence and it's purpose.


Hi! Thank you for sharing such a detailed, personal ideas for love and growth. I don't know its existence or purpose. Never even questioned it, because it's such an integral part. Thanks for bringing this outside perspective.



Termus123 said:


> Deliverables were things like how to improve myself to match/attract the other person etc... I won't go into details as it will be too long a post.


This must be the 3-Achiever thinking because I see it just like you. How can I attain my goal if it is so elusive. And how can I gain my goal of having a perfect partner that is a big part of my image to the world? (And what I am ashamed that I don't have 4w3) I don't mind hearing your ways to attract a partner/match. Or was this the addendum after the main message?I like the Corinthians verse very much. I did try to give myself wholeheartedly but it was with a person who tore me apart. 

"Not interacting with others could be for a number of reasons, why do you not interact with others?" It's not natural for I, I guess. My parents are reclusive and dad criticizes my social time though I push on through. Also, sometimes I do think I'm better being a w3 I'm competent, focused, expect a lot, and other people are just unprincipled, lazy, boring etc. Sometimes I'm an ambivert and people don't believe I am an I. Other people would never think I am an E. That photo is not me, but what you said applies still. I have quite a few people who are interested in me. I have 4 people who would go out with me right now if I just hinted, but I'm not interested in them plus no-dating. I _have_ thought of men as shallow because they don't look at the interior like they should, but if they do, then they are not the types I want-- not attractive/confident. Because I attract the wrong people in this time in life, I think it is better not to date anyone because I will waste time and cause more pain for myself. I also become very hurt when people don't reciprocate the way I expect them too and that leads me to rush out, like you.

I don't understand what you mean by competence is more important than family. I don't get it. Isn't China collectivist, so family reputation is very important? If so, my dad acts Chinese.

On your chart, I think #1+#4 combination is good but all with consequences



> You need to decide on either wanting to find the right person on the first try who is loyal and loves you on the first try or do the learn/experimenting thing and keep things more open ended, don't try for both because;


Personally cannot keep things open-ended anymore. I experimented and learned that. I have experimented so much it sickens me. I am like incapable of getting serious with someone new. I just think to find someone new always. It's like they never measure up to the image of my ex. It's hugely about image-- the image of someone protective, strong-willed, aggressive, attractive, fit, etc., protecting me-- that needs to be communicated toward others. That's why I'm waiting to date because I only want LTR.

What you said about the "playing hard to get"-- well maybe girls should make guys question a little bit otherwise they will think you are too easy. And if they are confident ones, they must be able to withstand the uncertainty. If you say yes to go out too quick, they might think you will go out with anyone. I think me being too open and quick to communicate at the beginning allowed certain guys to take advantage of my naiveté and not treat me like a girlfriend they had to work for. Then I am too open, get very upset, break up/discontinue, and I am hurt. Sensitive, I suppose.

Your advice is really great and I think we can both relate to each other in many ways! The difference is between _knowing_ and _carrying it out_. Thanks a million.




Termus123 said:


> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Most people refer to "love" as one of theres 2 types.
> 
> ...


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

FinishesEverythi said:


> I would argue that if you'd like to 'be loved' and to find 'a true partner' then 90% of what you need to do is to realise that you are who you are…
> 
> Personally I'm really enjoying dating an INFP, I find her extremely calming and peaceful to talk to. She will surprise me, keep me on my toes, challenge what I say and can spend ages debating pointless and irrelevant hypothetical situations.


Hi! Thanks for the comment and vicious circle is true. Thanks! So INFPs can meet Es- yay! Glad it's going well. 



Termus123 said:


> I was in a similar situation to yourself and wanted what you wanted so I really "researched" and "studied" this thing called "love", I asked myself a lot of critical questions and questioned why I think I want it etc... I've also questioned it's very existence and it's purpose.


Hi! Thank you for sharing such a detailed, personal ideas for love and growth. I don't know its existence or purpose. Never even questioned it, because it's such an integral part. Thanks for bringing this outside perspective.



Termus123 said:


> Deliverables were things like how to improve myself to match/attract the other person etc... I won't go into details as it will be too long a post.


This must be the 3-Achiever thinking because I see it just like you. How can I attain my goal if it is so elusive. And how can I gain my goal of having a perfect partner that is a big part of my image to the world? (And what I am ashamed that I don't have 4w3) I don't mind hearing your ways to attract a partner/match. Or was this the addendum after the main message?I like the Corinthians verse very much. I did try to give myself wholeheartedly but it was with a person who tore me apart. 

"Not interacting with others could be for a number of reasons, why do you not interact with others?" It's not natural for I, I guess. My parents are reclusive and dad criticizes my social time though I push on through. Also, sometimes I do think I'm better being a w3 I'm competent, focused, expect a lot, and other people are just unprincipled, lazy, boring etc. Sometimes I'm an ambivert and people don't believe I am an I. Other people would never think I am an E. That photo is not me, but what you said applies still. I have quite a few people who are interested in me. I have 4 people who would go out with me right now if I just hinted, but I'm not interested in them plus no-dating. I _have_ thought of men as shallow because they don't look at the interior like they should, but if they do, then they are not the types I want-- not attractive/confident. Because I attract the wrong people in this time in life, I think it is better not to date anyone because I will waste time and cause more pain for myself. I also become very hurt when people don't reciprocate the way I expect them too and that leads me to rush out, like you.

I don't understand what you mean by competence is more important than family. I don't get it. Isn't China collectivist, so family reputation is very important? If so, my dad acts Chinese.

On your chart, I think #1+#4 combination is good but all with consequences



> You need to decide on either wanting to find the right person on the first try who is loyal and loves you on the first try or do the learn/experimenting thing and keep things more open ended, don't try for both because;


Personally cannot keep things open-ended anymore. I experimented and learned that. I have experimented so much it sickens me. I am like incapable of getting serious with someone new. I just think to find someone new always. It's like they never measure up to the image of my ex. It's hugely about image-- the image of someone protective, strong-willed, aggressive, attractive, fit, etc., protecting me-- that needs to be communicated toward others. That's why I'm waiting to date because I only want LTR.

What you said about the "playing hard to get"-- well maybe girls should make guys question a little bit otherwise they will think you are too easy. And if they are confident ones, they must be able to withstand the uncertainty. If you say yes to go out too quick, they might think you will go out with anyone. I think me being too open and quick to communicate at the beginning allowed certain guys to take advantage of my naiveté and not treat me like a girlfriend they had to work for. Then I am too open, get very upset, break up/discontinue, and I am hurt. Sensitive, I suppose.

Your advice is really great and I think we can both relate to each other in many ways! The difference is between _knowing_ and _carrying it out_. Thanks a million.





monemi said:


> SP's are very loyal and demonstrative and offer positive reinforcement.


Interesting. Didn't know or think so! Thanks.


> In fact, you've pretty well described my ESFP father. But with how you present yourself here, we'd all stampede in the opposite direction. What do you have to offer?


I'm open, accepting, encourage others to be their best self, helpful. I am driven, persistent, listener, empathize, intelligent, visionary, artist, encourage others' creativity, teacher, business-minded, wear many hats, wacky, fun to be around!



> I don't think 6 months is long enough if this is only as far as you've come in 3.5 months.


I'm trying to overcome others' criticism, but, yes, I do become upset enough to make threads.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> I'm open, accepting, encourage others to be their best self, helpful. I am driven, persistent, listener, empathize, intelligent, visionary, artist, encourage others' creativity, teacher, business-minded, wear many hats, wacky, fun to be around!
> 
> 
> I'm trying to overcome others' criticism, but, yes, I do become upset enough to make threads.


Great, you have good qualities! How about focusing on those? The best you're going to get is your equal. If you try to get a person healthier than you, you're going to drag them down and that's not a partnership. The best to get the best person is to be your best self.


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## VoodooDolls (Jul 30, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> I am researching how to find a healthier, serious, fantastic partner.
> 
> Where? When? How?
> 
> ...


why you pick us man as we were products in a kwik-e-mart? it just happens, don't ask too much.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

monemi said:


> Great, you have good qualities! How about focusing on those? The best you're going to get is your equal. If you try to get a person healthier than you, you're going to drag them down and that's not a partnership. The best to get the best person is to be your best self.


You're right! Spending time with healthy, supportive friends has helped me a lot in the last no-dating months. It's really been great and I'm expanding in what I want to, though still struggle with the turmoil inside. It's hard not having your special partner, but I have really been taking the feedback seriously.



DonutsGalacticos said:


> why you pick us man as we were products in a kwik-e-mart? it just happens, don't ask too much.


*LOL!*


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## VoodooDolls (Jul 30, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> *LOL!*


does that lol comes from the fact that i'm a isfj and i know nothing about life? becuz if so i can turn my type to entp, and show you my darker side.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

This may sound kind of obvious but have you made a list or communicated across to the guys interested in you what you expect in an S.O?

Maybe I'm in the minority but if girls handed me a list, I could actually read it and know what to work towards rather than guessing in the dark and trying the broad range trial and error approach lol.


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

DonutsGalacticos said:


> does that lol comes from the fact that i'm a isfj and i know nothing about life? becuz if so i can turn my type to entp, and show you my darker side.


Why the drama?



Termus123 said:


> This may sound kind of obvious but have you made a list or communicated across to the guys interested in you what you expect in an S.O?
> 
> Maybe I'm in the minority but if girls handed me a list, I could actually read it and know what to work towards rather than guessing in the dark and trying the broad range trial and error approach lol.


What! You are a unique man, Termus123. I, for one, would be so red/ angry/ "BYE" if someone did that. It sounds like online dating where people list random traits and no one is even close! (And don't look like their pics I might add HA! ...Tried and will never do it again.) But I may not communicate the qualities I'm looking for because I can't get serious with anyone so I like leaving it uncertain. You have a point there. I took what you said into consideration but still not sure: not dating means missing out on someone amazing you could meet. I'm going to try mindfulness and meditation when I move to Europe at the end of August and hope that/those someone/s is/are working on themselves too, like other suggested.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

la_di_da said:


> What! You are a unique man, Termus123. I, for one, would be so red/ angry/ "BYE" if someone did that


At first I was in a similar thought pattern as you but then over time and reflecting back I've realized more and more that passive girls who don't voice out what they want and expect are the most difficult to be in a relationship with.

What I've noticed is that a lot of the time, girls are expecting the guy to fulfill everything on her list without sharing that list to him, this translates to time wasted, guy never stood a chance in the first place, there were fundamental differences/deal breakers between the both of you which could easily have been addressed from the get go. 

I think this quote here explains most of why that is.



> *But I may not communicate the qualities I'm looking for because I can't get serious with anyone so I like leaving it uncertain.*


I have to admit that you are probably in the majority of females who think this way and maybe my thought process is in the minority of males but if you consider what you do in my perspective it looks something along the lines of...

_This girl doesn't really tell me what she wants, expects and is very passive, what am I supposed to do? I can't read her mind, I don't know what to do so I'll try a broad spectrum approach and try everything out once and see her reaction._

All of a sudden you'll start getting confused because you'll start seeing me do all sorts of random and contradicting things because I'm guessing in the dark.

On one date I might take you to formal fine dining restaurant and on another date I might take you to a picnic lunch on the grass, maybe you only like fine dining in posh restaurants, maybe you only like picnics out on the grass, maybe you like both, I have no idea what your preference is so I pretty much run down a list to see what you react to and that only confuses you because you have no idea what my preference is either.

I don't know if you like a romantic charmer, the rebellious bad boy or maybe the timid shy guy, perhaps a humorous jester? So I'll try all the approaches and see what you react to the most.

I may not know if you like the nonchalant guy who makes you fall for him and generally more reluctant and do his own thing or the more clingy nice guy whose also your best friend... so again, will try the broad spectrum approach and see your reaction.

*I can go on but you get the gist of it, it would be SO MUCH simpler if I knew what you wanted, type of person you are and even better if there was a list which I look at and decide whether I'd be suitable or not for you.

Just so much more efficient, no wasted time, no frustrating guessing in the dark, no misunderstandings...

Plus if there was a list, I'd know what I can work on, I'd be able to see a straight path rather than getting confused and frustrated guessing in the dark all the time.*



> It sounds like online dating where people list random traits and no one is even close! (And don't look like their pics I might add HA! ...Tried and will never do it again.)


In some ways online dating is great when there is a list of traits there, a list of deal breakers for you and what you hate/despise and people were actually Honest about it and only appropriate applicants applied! It only fails because people are not honest, and you always have people who spam everyone's mail box without reading profiles etc... Plus, the physical attraction part of course.

There was this one ISTP girl who sort of had a list (I pretty much matched up to most of it and the ones I didn't match I worked on) and would always catch me out if I did something she didn't like, she was the least frustrating of any girl I've ever dated.

With her I knew what to do and had a clear sight in front of me.

The only problem was that she wasn't really a open communicator with feelings etc... But if she was she'd be perfect.


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## wolvent42 (Jun 17, 2013)

Seeking love is ego. Become love instead. Like a mirror, it will become abundant to your viewpoint. You are not seperate, you are connected and whole right now. Its all in the way you choose to think. Float in a ocean of love.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Termus123 said:


> At first I was in a similar thought pattern as you but then over time and reflecting back I've realized more and more that passive girls who don't voice out what they want and expect are the most difficult to be in a relationship with.
> 
> What I've noticed is that a lot of the time, girls are expecting the guy to fulfill everything on her list without sharing that list to him, this translates to time wasted, guy never stood a chance in the first place, there were fundamental differences/deal breakers between the both of you which could easily have been addressed from the get go.
> 
> ...



It's a pleasure listening to all your insight and advice. I know i'm not the OP, but as another INFP i am benefiting greatly from all your input. Thank You. I now realize some huge mistakes i've been making in relationships. I never realized i was causing the man so much confusion and stress as i never clearly voiced what i like and don't like, or what i want and don't want. For us INFP's it's real hard to do that, and hard to explain logically to you why it's real hard. I think it stems along the line of that we're inferior Te/Thinkers so trying to even think up of a list is difficult for us to do, and we're hopeless romantics and feel if we have to do something like that then we're killing the romantic vibes. I know that may be hard for you to understand what i just explained, but please remember i am an inferior thinker, and my first extroverted JUDGING (communicative) function is my inferior function, so that makes me not so good at explaining things in a logical manner.

However, the way you've explained about how it keeps guys in the dark and frustrated and confused if a girl doesn't speak out of what she likes and doesn't like, and how easy it is for you if she speaks it out, and the fact that you are willing to try to be better at things you see she likes but you're weak with, you have really opened my eyes to some very important things that i've been blind to.

I like the way you explain things. I finally get it what to do now. I've read countless articles that say for the girl to clearly speak out what she wants, what she's feeling, what she doesn't like etc, but somehow i still could not figure out how to apply it in my own life. You have given me a much more simple clear comprehension of what to do. 

You know, i have heard that ENTJ's are good for INFP's, now i see exactly why, lol  you break it down to us in a way that we can really grasp. I wonder if that has to do with Fi, even though it's your childlike inferior function, but you still do have it in your function stack, and because you are intuitive also. Of course the dom Te, dom Te users are the best at speaking aloud logically. So that would be significant also. 

Now i know when i look back at an encounter about a month ago with my current new boyfriend, he told my daughter i drive him crazy, now i know exactly what he means after listening to how you break it down and explain it when we don't speak out of what we want, like, don't want, don't like, etc, it leaves him having to burn overtime hours in his head trying to figure out how next to approach me by guessing in the dark and what to try or do next with me to see if he can figure me out. Especially as he is an ISTP Ti dom, a person who spends alot of time thinking and analyzing, and a person who also like simple logic, geez, now i realize i have been causing him undue stress that way.

Thanks again for helping me to understand that more clearly. :wink:


3rd Edit:

i think the part that really hits me and stands out to me the most is that it leaves guys guessing in the dark and having to constantly figure out what different things to try out to see what the girl wants. That it is really exhausting for the man. And that you are willing to grow to strengthen areas that you see you are weak in with what we want.

Just remembering those things you point out, is what will help me to know i must voice out clearly to a man my wants, needs, likes, desires, etc. Now that i see it from this perspective, i no longer feel this "killing of romantic vibes" to do this, i realize it's a less headache and heartache for both us.

@la_di_da

Here's a google search on lists of must haves and can't stands. i think this will really help us to know how to write a list.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=a+list+of+must+haves+can't+stands+in+a+relationship


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## QuintessentiallyBritish (Jul 2, 2014)

Hey - I think you hit the nail on the head - you need a relationship modelled to you!

If you've got another few months left of no dating, spend time with an older couple who you can trust. Maybe friends, or a couple who are married. Just low key, spend time together and hang out with them. 
Maybe get stuck into a church and spend some time with people who have really moral/love centred marriages? 

Lots of strong male personality types (ENTP, ENTJ ENFJ) would see that as a massive commitment to invest in relationships and the older couple may be able to set you up with someone who they know and trust!

Good luck


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Dreamer777 said:


> You know, i have heard that ENTJ's are good for INFP's, now i see exactly why, lol


Only if the INFP is as open as you are and the ENTJ is a healthy one with patience, a calm temper and wants a relationship + not too focused on work.



> you break it down to us in a way that we can really grasp. I wonder if that has to do with Fi, even though it's your childlike inferior function, but you still do have it in your function stack, and because you are intuitive also. Of course the dom Te, dom Te users are the best at speaking aloud logically. So that would be significant also.


ENTJs are known to be the best at explaining things since we take things step by step, A to B to C to D rather than A to Z, giving practical examples of each step. We are also very systematic meaning consistency and last but not least, we check for practicability and efficiency since we gather information via Te and judge with innovative thinking (Te + Ni), no wishful thinking that might not work.

As for the Fi part, my Te kind of sees my Fi as the princess barking out what she wants/feels (orders) and Te is the white knight which gets things done for her. She barked out relationships a long time ago so the Te was on his quest to achieve the princess's wishes and along the way accumulated some experience/knowledge regarding this topic . 



> Especially as he is an ISTP Ti dom, a person who spends alot of time thinking and analyzing, and a person who also like simple logic.


ISTPs are difficult for many personality types due to their nonchalant, less communicative nature and avoids talking about emotions like the plague. They live day to day and dislike commitment so alot of the time, they seem like someone who you can't tie down/commit to.

Obviously it's not right to generalize everyone but what I did with the ISTP girl was that I linked her the description and asked her if it was accurate and she pretty much highlighted everything on there which applied to her. 
I found that this was a great way to find out more about her without the need for too much questioning since I tend to ask too many questions and people think I'm invading personal space.



> Thanks again for helping me to understand that more clearly. :wink:


Pleasure, white knight at your service 




> i think the part that really hits me and stands out to me the most is that it leaves guys guessing in the dark and having to constantly figure out what different things to try out to see what the girl wants. That it is really exhausting for the man. And that *you are willing to grow to strengthen areas that you see you are weak in with what we want.*


Many/Most guys are unwilling to grow to strengthen areas that they are weak in to accommodate for what you want as society these days are preaching about being "Alpha" and getting the girl to accommodate to you.

Unfortunately or fortunately for me, only my Te is "Alpha", my Fi is not and my Fe is pretty much non existent so you will see a behavioral phenomenon of using "Alpha" methods to achieve a "Beta" objective lol... Sorry if confusing, sort of an inside joke I have going on with my Te vs Fi.

Back to the topic, you should probably "test" your man by getting him to do things out of his own comfort zone, if he delivers, then you know that regardless of what happens, he will come through for you or at the very least be willing and courageous enough to deal with whatever situation thats troubling you. 

I just want to explain something in regards to this;
This is not a mind game, this is a direct approach method, there is a big difference! Mind games make the guy feel that you are trying to manipulate and out smart him to get what you want, we hate this with a passion.
So just for clarification, when I say "test" I don't mean any sort of mind game/manipulation b.s.



> Just remembering those things you point out, is what will help me to know i must voice out clearly to a man my wants, needs, likes, desires, etc. Now that i see it from this perspective, *i no longer feel this "killing of romantic vibes" to do this*, i realize it's a less headache and heartache for both us.


As a fellow intuitive type, I too felt the same way at first, that this seems alittle too systematic and not "ideal" but from experience, you can continue being "idealistic" and wait for the perfect man who naturally thinks the same way as you do, likes everything you like, basically another you and thus no communication is required but then you'd just be dating a male version of yourself


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Termus123 said:


> Only if the INFP is as open as you are and the ENTJ is a healthy one with patience, a calm temper and wants a relationship + not too focused on work.


Got it.



> ENTJs are known to be the best at explaining things since we take things step by step, A to B to C to D rather than A to Z, giving practical examples of each step. We are also very systematic meaning consistency and last but not least, we check for practicability and efficiency since we gather information via Te and judge with innovative thinking (Te + Ni), no wishful thinking that might not work.


Lol  instead of that dang ol' Ne with all it's wishful thinking, haha 

Yeah, i see what is so appealing here to the INFP. It's Te in it's dominant form speaking to us inferior Te Thinkers, along with Ni which is carefully strategic/executed instead of Ne which we don't need more of as we have enough of that and do need the infusion of Ni, and for the reason that INFP's and ENTJ are both fellow intuitives (rather than say the ESTJ's who are S's rather than N's, and with Fi around but in the weaker position, but still it is Fi, not Fe. 

However, INFP's will use Fe sometimes too as in with social graces (more so because we like everyone to be treated kindly as we are sensitive feelers and want everyone to be happy and feel worthy, and we value harmony dearly, so i could see where the INFP and ENTJ could have a clash with Fe when it comes to not being in agreement over how to have social grace to others. Do you agree with that? My Dad is ESTJ, and depending on the situation he can be excellent with social graces, but he can be horrible sometimes as in being rude and insultive. Me and my Dad get along alot but we also clash hard when it comes to arguing points from a logic/practical perception verses feelings/emotions perception. Too hard. I would never choose an ESTJ for a partner. How do you get along with ESTJ's? If you could change some things about the INFP, what are the things you would change?



> As for the Fi part, my Te kind of sees my Fi as the princess barking out what she wants/feels (orders) and Te is the white knight which gets things done for her. She barked out relationships a long time ago so the Te was on his quest to achieve the princess's wishes and along the way accumulated some experience/knowledge regarding this topic .


That's hillarious, LOL :happy: Fascinating explanation/description of dom Te and inferior Fi! So, i don't know if you could know the answer to this as you're not a Fi dom inferior Te user. But is there any way you could describe in a cute funny way like that how our Te serves our Fi or vise verse? i would love to hear 




> ISTPs are difficult for many personality types due to their nonchalant, less communicative nature and avoids talking about emotions like the plague. They live day to day and dislike commitment so alot of the time, they seem like someone who you can't tie down/commit to.


All my life it is the ISTP that i'm attracted to. But it can be a difficult relationship at times with the ISTP and the INFP. Like you say they avoid talking about emotions too much, their Fi is pretty much non-existent, so they don't relate well to how something feels in their emotions that much. They want to practically physically fix problems, not empathize with other's feelings/emotions, they're not capable of too much empathy. Like for example, if they go to a funeral, they don't know how to really console people and deal with all those emotions. I like their Se, their Se helps me to get out more. And they use Ni so they can inject that logic into my life through Ti and Ni, but it's not necessarily in alot of talking. They will keep the conversation limited. Most of them, i have found a couple online ISTP friends that can be more lengthy, but it can tire them too. I think that's how all introverts are though, we can get tired of over talking. The biggest problem i see with ISTP and INFP is the overtalking of emotions that the INFP wants to do. That can burn out an ISTP really fast. They can talk alot about a tool or car or whatever, but not emotions.

Well, if you are living with an ISTP in a relationship, they do show alot more commitment that way. But dating and not living together, yeah, that's not for the faint of heart! That can be really difficult. Generally speaking of ISTP's though, there are the the more mature ones who are more sensitive to making sure their SO i ok. But still, they need alot of space to be independent and be free to come and go as they please without much explanation or limitation. One of the mechanics we use to fix our cars, he stays late at his garage, and doesn't go home til late like around 9 or so. But he communicates with his wife and sometimes does things with her. They've been married for a long time and have a good marriage, but it amazes me that he wants to spend so much time after business hours at his work place. They are Christian people, he doesn't cheat or have affairs, he's not into that. But he just likes his space with his friends who come by and visit who are like minded ISTP's like himself. 



> Obviously it's not right to generalize everyone but what I did with the ISTP girl was that I linked her the description and asked her if it was accurate and she pretty much highlighted everything on there which applied to her.
> I found that this was a great way to find out more about her without the need for too much questioning since I tend to ask too many questions and people think I'm invading personal space.


See, i don't mind the questions, i like to talk if it's someone trying to learn about me with no harm intended. But i agree that sometimes these descriptions and lists and things of that sort are very helpful to learn quicker about a person.

I didn't know personality type theory til a few years ago. If i did it would have saved me alot of trouble and pain along the years. Wish i knew back then what i know now! It's very helpful in understanding a person's mindset and how they think and behave and things they like to do, things they don't like, etc. 




> Pleasure, white knight at your service


Lol  Thank You White Knight! You know, ISTP's view themselves as Knights too, Avengers, Super Heroes and the like.






> Many/Most guys are unwilling to grow to strengthen areas that they are weak in to accommodate for what you want as society these days are preaching about being "Alpha" and getting the girl to accommodate to you.
> 
> Unfortunately or fortunately for me, only my Te is "Alpha", my Fi is not and my Fe is pretty much non existent so you will see a behavioral phenomenon of using "Alpha" methods to achieve a "Beta" objective lol... Sorry if confusing, sort of an inside joke I have going on with my Te vs Fi.


Well, in a movie a wife once said: My husband is the head, but i am the neck, and it is the neck that turns the head, lol :happy: 



> Back to the topic, you should probably "test" your man by getting him to do things out of his own comfort zone, if he delivers, then you know that regardless of what happens, he will come through for you or at the very least be willing and courageous enough to deal with whatever situation thats troubling you.
> 
> I just want to explain something in regards to this;
> This is not a mind game, this is a direct approach method, there is a big difference! Mind games make the guy feel that you are trying to manipulate and out smart him to get what you want, we hate this with a passion.
> So just for clarification, when I say "test" I don't mean any sort of mind game/manipulation b.s.


Right, i hate mind manipulation and mind games. So with me it would never be a worry of that. I can't be fake. We INFP's are very genuine, just suck at explaining how we feel in a logical manner. That's what we need to learn more how to do, it would clear up alot of misunderstandings. But it's hard for us to do, it takes great effort. Better when have someone who can question us step by step to help us get it out.





> As a fellow intuitive type, I too felt the same way at first, that this seems alittle too systematic and not "ideal" but from experience, you can continue being "idealistic" and wait for the perfect man who naturally thinks the same way as you do, likes everything you like, basically another you and thus no communication is required but then you'd just be dating a male version of yourself


I would have no interest being with someone like me, then we could not help each other with our weaknesses. I used to think if maybe i was with another INFP, life would be great! But then as i kept thinking about that, i realized it would be a helpless life, we just would not be able to step in where each other is weak. The balance is good to have partners that can step up for each other's weaknesses. But it's still delicate because it can cause so many misunderstandings too being that the partners are kind of opposite. I think a check list is a good guide line though. I'm going to see if there is a way i can put one together for myself somehow. That takes alot of Te work though, something i'm just not gifted in. So i'm not sure how i would do it. Because Ne would always make me feel the list is never full and complete, like there's always other things that can come up, like it would be an open-ended list that may be subject to change in some things. Fi and Ne in dom or aux combo is a wild combo. Bazaar.


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## vertigo12314 (Jun 30, 2013)

Self-discipline is the thing that makes marriages last. If both partners have it then you have less to worry about. People with self-discipline act more, cheat less, and are less needy. Keep improving yourself and stay positive. I personally (as an INFP) recommend meditation and learning to develop the habit of staying in the present moment especially when doing chores or mundane activities.

This book in particular can help a lot:

Amazon.com: The Practicing Mind: Developing Focus and Discipline in Your Life eBook: Thomas M. Sterner: Kindle Store

I also like the below video:






Good luck!


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

vertigo12314 said:


> Self-discipline is the thing that makes marriages last. If both partners have it then you have less to worry about. People with self-discipline act more, cheat less, and are less needy. Keep improving yourself and stay positive. I personally (as an INFP) recommend meditation and learning to develop the habit of staying in the present moment especially when doing chores or mundane activities.
> 
> This book in particular can help a lot:
> 
> ...


Great video and i bought the book, Thanks Vertigo! i'm not the OP, just an INFP interracting on the thread. Thanks for your input! :happy:


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

Dreamer777 said:


> Yeah, i see what is so appealing here to the INFP. It's Te in it's dominant form speaking to us inferior Te Thinkers, along with Ni which is carefully strategic/executed instead of Ne which we don't need more of as we have enough of that and do need the infusion of Ni, and for the reason that *INFP's and ENTJ are both fellow intuitives *(rather than say the ESTJ's who are S's rather than N's, and with Fi around but in the weaker position, but still it is Fi, not Fe.


You're onto something there =) I notice that when I talk to S types, they need solid examples which you can see, touch, hear, smell or identify with the 5 senses rendering their "imagination" quite limited and it is sometimes frustrating. I've made the mistake in the past thinking that they were "stupid" in the sense that they can't grasp abstract concepts very well yet all types can sense but realized later that I was "stupid" to S types because I never bother to remember things I don't prioritize i.e street signs, land marks and often end up getting lost if my phone ran out of battery (GPS). /facepalm.




> However, INFP's





> *will use Fe sometimes *too as in with social graces (more so *because we like everyone to be treated kindly *as we are sensitive feelers and want everyone to be happy and feel worthy, and *we value harmony dearly.*


This brings up an interesting conversation, you use Fe in order to be treated kindly in return and value harmony/avoid conflict. So in other words, your Fi (dominant judging function or decision maker) is utilizing your Ne and Si to find a solution to what it wants which is to be treated kindly.

I use Fe to achieve what I want too, personally, I just see Fe as fitting in i.e Fi "feels" that it wants to be more successful so Se + Ni says suck up to boss = promotion, Te validates and "judges" the integrity of this information and puts it into action and thus I will use my Fe on my boss to get an promotion lol.

So in essence, we both end up with using Fe to achieve a purpose which relates to "fitting in" with the group/others, the difference is in how we gather our information. I rely on Ni and Se while you on Ne and Si.

The way I see it, Fi = what you feel like you want and Fe = what others want and fitting in. 

So in essence, all personality types with Fi in the first 4 cognitive function stack and Fe on the shadow stack = values what oneself feels/wants more while personality types with Fi in the shadow functions stack and Fe on the top 4 cognitive function stack = values what the group wants and fitting in more.

Also I can sometimes despise Fe because of the tendency to go with the group and do what everyone else is doing. This article which aquamarine sent me the other night is a prime example of what I absolutely despise.

http://www.johnstepper.com/2013/10/26/the-five-monkeys-experiment-with-a-new-lesson/




> so i could see where the INFP and ENTJ could have a clash with Fe when it comes to not being in agreement over how to have social grace to others. Do you agree with that?


I both agree and disagree.

In its simplest terms, if my Fi never issued out any "feeling/wants" which involved sucking up to people, needing to be accepted to accomplish the objective, or needing to please anyone etc...

Then yes, I would severely neglect Fe and express myself first and think of the group last.

However, if my Fi for example likes/loves you because you're my s.o or w/e relation then you become an objective, your opinion suddenly matters so if you value Fe then I would obviously try come up with a compromise regarding Fe or even better, if you are simply wanting to utilize Fe to be treated better by others and explained the concept to me, I'd know what to do so others treat you better and support you in your objective. 

I guess this can all be summarized into --> I don't treat everyone equally nor do I want to, I work off of a hierarchy system, everyone has a different value to me and I prioritize everyone according to that value.




> How do you get along with ESTJ's?


ESTJs are great to enforce things to others, if the ESTJ and I share a common objective then they are great enforcers. If the ESTJ does not share a common objective with me and he tries to enforce his views onto me then we will lash it out in a debate in which he needs to give me good reason to listen to him otherwise we have a problem.




> If you could change some things about the INFP, what are the things you would change?


I like INFP's idealistic side but don't like the fact that they aren't very open to sharing their ideas/ideals.
If you have a view point or opinion then lets hear it, what I and perhaps other ENTJs hate is people who keep quiet as we see this as not contributing and basically you are just there for the sake of being there, what is the point of even having you there? Voice out =) also please don't follow social norms and all that crap, I hope the monkey article has inspired everyone to stop being sheep =).

Other than that, maybe consider practicability and achieve the things you idealize in. ENTJs don't really respect someone who only theorizes ideals but don't put it into action.




> That's hillarious, LOL





> Fascinating explanation/description of dom Te and inferior Fi! So, i don't know if you could know the answer to this as you're not a Fi dom inferior Te user.*But is there any way you could describe in a cute funny way like that how our Te serves our Fi or vise verse? i would love to hear *


Hmm, if I was to reverse this then it would look something along the lines of...

Princess Fi makes a wish list of what she feels that she wants, she also has morals on what she feels is right and wrong to make this harder.

In your case, Dark Knight Te looks at this list and tries to find patterns, with the list of "Don't/Can't dos" to make his job harder =)

Basically since Fi is your judging dom, you'd always internalize what you want, make value/feeling judgments First and THEN validate it with your extroverted thinking as your second judge.

So in essence, you do exactly what I do except in reverse! You let princess Fi decide on what she feels like you should do, add a bunch of values and rules relating to morals, feeling etc... on top of that using your database Ne + Si for information upon reaching the decision.

Then Dark Knight Te comes in and says wait, you mean to tell me that you want to achieve something this difficult in Addition to all these extra values, morality and ethnic rules limiting how you'll achieve it?!

Dark Knight Te: Since your highness is internalizing everything based upon Ne + Si (Memory/past experiences) I guess that I'll have to start "Segmenting, organizing for efficiency, and systematizing" The information I got from databases Ne and Si and see if we can come up with a more practical and efficient way of achieving this... Do we REALLY need this ethnic rule limiting us here? Do we REALLY need to live up to that value there? etc...




> I like their Se, their Se helps me to get out more. And they use Ni so they can inject that logic into my life through Ti and Ni, but it's not necessarily in alot of talking. They will keep the conversation limited.


 

The way I see it, Ti + Se translates to living in the present, thinking in the present, whats now, whats here, little room for imagination etc... So intuitive types should have an issue communicating with them in many aspects. They are also very physical due to the Se so generally they will like experiencing their 5 senses a lot while intuitives spend a lot of time thinking about things that aren't limited to the 5 senses etc... So in a way, speaking to Se types as an Intuitive is almost like telling your parents about your imaginary friend.



> The biggest problem i see with ISTP and INFP is the overtalking of emotions that the INFP wants to do. That can burn out an ISTP really fast. They can talk alot about a tool or car or whatever, but not emotions.


Talking about feelings is key to a relationship as relationships = feelings, no feeling = no relationship. You can talk about a tool or a car to anyone who is interested in it but how many people do you trust with discussing your feelings with? Anyway I see this, it's bad for you but fine for him, he can talk about cars and tools to anyone of his friends or a stranger but you have to limit your discussion of feelings with him and share it with someone else who you are comfortable with which leaves you with few options.

Well, if you are *living with an ISTP* in a relationship, they do *show alot more commitment that way.* But dating and not living together, yeah, that's not for the faint of heart! That can be really difficult. Generally speaking of ISTP's though, there are the the more mature ones who are more sensitive to making sure their SO i ok. But still, *they need alot of space to be independent and be free to come and go as they please without much explanation or limitation.* One of the mechanics we use to fix our cars, he stays late at his garage, and *doesn't go home til late like around 9 or so.* But he communicates with his wife and sometimes does things with her. They've been married for a long time and have a good marriage, but it amazes me that he wants to spend so much time after business hours at his work place. They are Christian people, he doesn't cheat or have affairs, he's not into that. But he just likes his space with his friends who come by and visit who are like minded ISTP's like himself. 

Pretty much a good summary, they show more commitment that way because they show commitment on a day by day basis, they could be here one day and gone the next or as the ISTP girl would say, she wakes up one day and no longer feel anything for her partner and then its over.

They need a lot of space to be independent, come and go as they please without explanation or limitation sort of for me translates into casual/open relationship without commitment or being tied down.

TBH I'm generally always confused when with an ISTP partner, I have no idea if shes lost interest of if she just needs alone time, plus the lack of talking about what shes feeling, frustrates me and I just give up and let her do the initializing, eventually I just end up doing my own thing until she hits me up and take it from there.




> See, i don't mind the questions, i like to talk if it's someone trying to learn about me with no harm intended. But i agree that sometimes these descriptions and lists and things of that sort are very helpful to learn quicker about a person.


Glad that you don't mind the questions because I haven't been asking any  most people who I hold conversations with in real life are almost twice my age lol... I find that women in their 30s-40s are the best ones to talk to for me. Men, any age thats not less than my own generally works out.



> Lol  Thank You White Knight! You know, ISTP's view themselves as Knights too, Avengers, Super Heroes and the like.


Since you're an Fi dom I guess that makes me your dark knight 



> Well, in a movie a wife once said: My husband is the head, but i am the neck, and it is the neck that turns the head, lol




In King Kong, King Kong was the alpha and there was no equal to him in strength, nekminit Naiomi Watts shows up, Kong falls for her and ends up dead. Now we know who the real alpha is .




> Right, *i hate mind manipulation and mind games.* So with me it would never be a worry of that. *I can't be fake.* We INFP's are *very genuine*, just *suck at explaining how we feel in a logical manner.* That's what we need to learn more how to do, it would clear up alot of misunderstandings. But it's hard for us to do, it takes great effort. *Better when have someone who can question us step by step to help us get it out.*


Seeing compatibility there but in reality, if you suck at explaining how you feel in a logical manner, you wouldn't even get up to the stage where I knew I could question you step by step to get it out. 

In my perspective, when you suck at explaining how you feel in a logical manner, that probably leads to not communicating it and keeping it internalized which translates to me that you're a private person and questioning you would make you uncomfortable right? 

So in essence, you are giving off the opposite vibe to what you actually wanting.



> I would have no interest being with someone like me, then we could not help each other with our weaknesses. I used to think if maybe i was with another INFP, life would be great! But then as i kept thinking about that, i realized it would be a helpless life, we just would not be able to step in where each other is weak. The balance is good to have partners that can step up for each other's weaknesses. But it's still delicate because it can cause so many misunderstandings too being that the partners are kind of opposite.


Can work out if you overcame some of your weakness and matured, because you understand your INFP partner better than anyone else since you are both INFPs.



> I think a check list is a good guide line though. I'm going to see if there is a way i can put one together for myself somehow. That takes alot of Te work though, something i'm just not gifted in. So i'm not sure how i would do it. Because Ne would always make me feel the list is never full and complete, like there's always other things that can come up, like it would be an open-ended list that may be subject to change in some things. Fi and Ne in dom or aux combo is a wild combo. Bazaar.


If you ever need help with your list, feel free to PM me and I'll create it with you in no time. Te Ni work is my specialty =)


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## ravengal (Jun 27, 2014)

I agree about love yourself first. My friend who know how to herself get a guy of her dream easily and other who doesn't love herself attract not-so-confident guy and break up.
I also still haven't love myself well. I think that is the reason I have never been had a boyfriend. It's ok, still love yourself and believe.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Termus123 said:


> You're onto something there =) I notice that when I talk to S types, they need solid examples which you can see, touch, hear, smell or identify with the 5 senses rendering their "imagination" quite limited and it is sometimes frustrating. I've made the mistake in the past thinking that they were "stupid" in the sense that they can't grasp abstract concepts very well yet all types can sense but realized later that I was "stupid" to S types because I never bother to remember things I don't prioritize i.e street signs, land marks and often end up getting lost if my phone ran out of battery (GPS). /facepalm.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'll reply later when i have more time, but you bet i'm gonna take you up on your offer of helping me put a list together! That's real cool, thanks!


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## la_di_da (May 28, 2014)

QuintessentiallyBritish said:


> Hey - I think you hit the nail on the head - you need a relationship modelled to you!
> 
> If you've got another few months left of no dating, spend time with an older couple who you can trust. Maybe friends, or a couple who are married. Just low key, spend time together and hang out with them.
> Maybe get stuck into a church and spend some time with people who have really moral/love centred marriages?
> ...


Hi! I think that is a good plan but a former ardent religious zealot, I am not now and feel hypocritical going to church.  I wish very much that I could do that though because I think only people from church will have the morals I want, but I don't want to deceive anyone there who is looking for another Protestant spouse. I'm spiritual not religious.



vertigo12314 said:


> Self-discipline is the thing that makes marriages last. If both partners have it then you have less to worry about. People with self-discipline act more, cheat less, and are less needy. Keep improving yourself and stay positive. I personally (as an INFP) recommend meditation and learning to develop the habit of staying in the present moment especially when doing chores or mundane activities.


*This is some of the best advice*: self-discipline: more proactive, less cheating hopefully and promotes me to be disciplined!
The video was very good and the book, I will wait till @Dreamer777 lets me know how it is. 

I read your posts and you are so funny @Dreamer777.
@Termus123 is also very helpful as always.  I literally LOL at the Monkey article._ HAHAHAA!!
_
And lol @ King Kong.


> I like INFP's idealistic side but don't like the fact that they aren't very open to sharing their ideas/ideals.
> If you have a view point or opinion then lets hear it, what I and perhaps other ENTJs hate is people who keep quiet as we see this as not contributing and basically you are just there for the sake of being there, what is the point of even having you there? Voice out =)


Yeah! Well we are very expressive at times depending how I/E we are in the situation. Like, I am normally quieter in a classroom but can be obnoxious at other times. Side note: would not want an INFP partner-- too difficult!



Dreamer777 said:


> I'll reply later when i have more time, but you bet i'm gonna take you up on your offer of helping me put a list together! That's real cool, thanks!


Please forward to la_di_da.


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## vertigo12314 (Jun 30, 2013)

If you're interested there is another book that shows you what all humans/mammals are chasing in terms of neurotransmitters. It'll make you razor sharp in understanding human motivation.






Amazon.com: Meet Your Happy Chemicals: Dopamine, Endorphin, Oxytocin, Serotonin eBook: Loretta Graziano Breuning: Kindle Store


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

la_di_da said:


> Hi! I think that is a good plan but a former ardent religious zealot, I am not now and feel hypocritical going to church.  I wish very much that I could do that though because I think only people from church will have the morals I want, but I don't want to deceive anyone there who is looking for another Protestant spouse. I'm spiritual not religious.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll let you know on the book, and on the check list


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## Mender (Apr 23, 2014)

I'm sorry that I haven't read much in this thread; I've only skimmed a few of the replies. Anyway...

Someone here said that you shouldn't go expecting someone to heal you. Well, I think I have a more constructive way to put that:

INFPs are healers at heart; many of us cannot stand idly by in the midst of suffering when it's clear that we can do anything about it. People inexplicably flock to us with their problems (regardless of whether we want to hear them out) because of the innate preference for extraverted intuition we have, and our feeling-oriented means of silently expressing it. Nearly everyone in the world would want our guidance if it meant they could become emotionally whole - after all, we are the harbingers of self-unity.

Meet someone who isn't like that - meet someone who doesn't want to be healed. Chances are, once you get to know them, _they_ want to be the one to heal _you_.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

Termus123 said:


> You're onto something there =) I notice that when I talk to S types, they need solid examples which you can see, touch, hear, smell or identify with the 5 senses rendering their "imagination" quite limited and it is sometimes frustrating. I've made the mistake in the past thinking that they were "stupid" in the sense that they can't grasp abstract concepts very well yet all types can sense but realized later that I was "stupid" to S types because I never bother to remember things I don't prioritize i.e street signs, land marks and often end up getting lost if my phone ran out of battery (GPS). /facepalm.


But don't you think that when a relationship is paired with opposites as in S and N's, etc, that it is better for the couple to have a more balanced life? I guess when it comes down to it, there is the pros and cons of every relationship no matter what 2 types get together. Most important thing is the 2 love and respect and help each other out. Seems like there are cons for any 2 pairings?



> This brings up an interesting conversation, you use Fe in order to be treated kindly in return and value harmony/avoid conflict. So in other words, your Fi (dominant judging function or decision maker) is utilizing your Ne and Si to find a solution to what it wants which is to be treated kindly.
> 
> I use Fe to achieve what I want too, personally, I just see Fe as fitting in i.e Fi "feels" that it wants to be more successful so Se + Ni says suck up to boss = promotion, Te validates and "judges" the integrity of this information and puts it into action and thus I will use my Fe on my boss to get an promotion lol.
> 
> ...




Right.



> Also I can sometimes despise Fe because of the tendency to go with the group and do what everyone else is doing. This article which aquamarine sent me the other night is a prime example of what I absolutely despise.
> 
> http://www.johnstepper.com/2013/10/26/the-five-monkeys-experiment-with-a-new-lesson/


Yeah, that monkey clip is real good. I could never let a group lead me astray like that, my Fi dom ways would totally see that as being utterly ridiculous and crazy!



> I both agree and disagree.
> 
> In its simplest terms, if my Fi never issued out any "feeling/wants" which involved sucking up to people, needing to be accepted to accomplish the objective, or needing to please anyone etc...
> 
> ...


Yes, i'm like that too, there is a priority order in who i invest myself into. But don't you think all types are like that?



> ESTJs are great to enforce things to others, if the ESTJ and I share a common objective then they are great enforcers. If the ESTJ does not share a common objective with me and he tries to enforce his views onto me then we will lash it out in a debate in which he needs to give me good reason to listen to him otherwise we have a problem.


Yeah, i can see the clash of 2 strong leader types there. My Dad is ESTJ and he gets on well with his friend's son, who is my good friend as well as we all kinda grew up together, and he's ENTJ. They enjoy each other's company very much and can talk for hours.



> I like INFP's idealistic side but don't like the fact that they aren't very open to sharing their ideas/ideals.
> If you have a view point or opinion then lets hear it, what I and perhaps other ENTJs hate is people who keep quiet as we see this as not contributing and basically you are just there for the sake of being there, what is the point of even having you there? Voice out =) also please don't follow social norms and all that crap, I hope the monkey article has inspired everyone to stop being sheep =).
> 
> Other than that, maybe consider practicability and achieve the things you idealize in. ENTJs don't really respect someone who only theorizes ideals but don't put it into action.


INFP's don't follow social norms, we are the fish that swim against the flow tbh. Yeah, i see what you mean about contributing our ideas and ideals. It's our inferior Te that causes us to not speak out too much. We are better at writing it out than talking it out. Yeah, we need to put more of our ideals and ideas into action and out of our head so much. I totally agree with that. 



> Hmm, if I was to reverse this then it would look something along the lines of...
> 
> Princess Fi makes a wish list of what she feels that she wants, she also has morals on what she feels is right and wrong to make this harder.
> 
> ...


LOL! Fascinating explanation, haha :laughing: Thanks for that!




> The way I see it, Ti + Se translates to living in the present, thinking in the present, whats now, whats here, little room for imagination etc... So intuitive types should have an issue communicating with them in many aspects. They are also very physical due to the Se so generally they will like experiencing their 5 senses a lot while intuitives spend a lot of time thinking about things that aren't limited to the 5 senses etc... So in a way, speaking to Se types as an Intuitive is almost like telling your parents about your imaginary friend.




HaHa! :happy: to being like telling your parents about your imaginary friend. You sure do have a gift of humor to explain these differences in simple terms. It's so cool to listen to how you put it  

But that brings me back to my point that isn't it better for the balance between the 2 for one to be S and one to be N to be able to have a better functioning life? hmmm.... but also like i said, there is cons to any 2 types together, not just S's with N's?




> Talking about feelings is key to a relationship as relationships = feelings, no feeling = no relationship. You can talk about a tool or a car to anyone who is interested in it but how many people do you trust with discussing your feelings with? Anyway I see this, it's bad for you but fine for him, he can talk about cars and tools to anyone of his friends or a stranger but you have to limit your discussion of feelings with him and share it with someone else who you are comfortable with which leaves you with few options.


Again though it comes back to that balance of one being S and one being N. You can have your outside sources for more talking, like friends, or people you share the same hobby with and also with a Therapist. A wife cannot be all to her hubby, nor can hubby be all to his wife?




> Pretty much a good summary, they show more commitment that way because they show commitment on a day by day basis, they could be here one day and gone the next or as the ISTP girl would say, she wakes up one day and no longer feel anything for her partner and then its over.
> 
> They need a lot of space to be independent, come and go as they please without explanation or limitation sort of for me translates into casual/open relationship without commitment or being tied down.
> 
> TBH I'm generally always confused when with an ISTP partner, I have no idea if shes lost interest of if she just needs alone time, plus the lack of talking about what shes feeling, frustrates me and I just give up and let her do the initializing, eventually I just end up doing my own thing until she hits me up and take it from there.


Yeah, ISTP's need alot of space. But they do make committed partners. I think it's like any relationship where it just either works out or doesn't, no matter type. Relationships are a complex thing  But they can give us so much joy too. 






> Glad that you don't mind the questions because I haven't been asking any  most people who I hold conversations with in real life are almost twice my age lol... I find that women in their 30s-40s are the best ones to talk to for me. Men, any age thats not less than my own generally works out.


 yeah, i was just saying in general, i don't mind being asked depending on who is asking and what is their motive as to how much i will open up. I am pretty open if i know the other person is not just wanting some gossip or scandal to have a hay day with.




> Since you're an Fi dom I guess that makes me your dark knight


 haha! funny :happy:



> In King Kong, King Kong was the alpha and there was no equal to him in strength, nekminit Naiomi Watts shows up, Kong falls for her and ends up dead. Now we know who the real alpha is .




yup!






> Seeing compatibility there but in reality, if you suck at explaining how you feel in a logical manner, you wouldn't even get up to the stage where I knew I could question you step by step to get it out.
> 
> In my perspective, when you suck at explaining how you feel in a logical manner, that probably leads to not communicating it and keeping it internalized which translates to me that you're a private person and questioning you would make you uncomfortable right?
> 
> So in essence, you are giving off the opposite vibe to what you actually wanting.


Yes, that can be a problem with us INFP's. it's our inferior Te mixed with our dom Fi. can be real difficult to explaining our feelings 





> Can work out if you overcame some of your weakness and matured, because you understand your INFP partner better than anyone else since you are both INFPs.


i don't think 2 INFP's would be a good match tbh, i think 2 Fi doms will clash hard on their value differences.




> If you ever need help with your list, feel free to PM me and I'll create it with you in no time. Te Ni work is my specialty =)


Tomorrow i'll work on that, Thank You Termus! :happy:


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