# Annoying Fi 'vibe'



## NipNip (Apr 16, 2015)

When I hang out a lot with Fi doms there is this vibe that starts to annoy me. I've experience the same thing when I was 10-16yo with another friend. Looking back at it now, he's very likely to be an Fi user too. 

It's very hard to describe but it examples are: when they are tired after a long day together they get really '_*****_', they hide how they _feel_ (ugh...) about something for a super long time but gradually (and very indirect) make you suspect what they really want or think of something, once they've made up their opinion based on _feelings_ or _values_ they act really stuborn (again not in a direct way), they talk in a suggetive way when they know damn well what they want or feel "I don't know.... Maybe we...", they stick with their believes after rational explanation from my behalf (I usually don't even try because that vibe tells me it's useless anyway), ...

I don't know it's very hard to explain but maybe someone can relate to the examples. Experiences? Thoughts?


----------



## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

lol I have two Fi doms in my family (mom and sister) so I'm kind of used to it (although they can be blunt at seemingly random times..). I just tell them I don't do hints. Probably stresses them out because of inferior Te, but I think my sister also has more Te than usual from us having grown up together and I have aux Te. However, it is a lot more difficult to deal with someone you don't know well, than friends or family. 

I think F users in general are gonna be more "indirect" than T users. And I've noticed it with Fe too.. for example, not even dom/aux, but an ENTP. I sent her this link of some article, it had something to do with feminists and girls being bullied. I don't remember. But she agreed with the article, and I was like "what? I basically made the exact same point and you started arguing with me". She said "oh I guess I got defensive with you because you're not a woman LOL". :idunno: It's a different kind of indirectness than you see in F users.. essentially, she was rationalizing feeling defensive by arguing the opposing side. 

I think it's a common thing T types do when their F functions are immature. I'm probably guilty of the same thing - rationalizing things by making them _sound_ logical, I just find I've kinda outgrown that immature F phase (likely out of necessity from stressful events or something), so I notice a lot of this in T users


----------



## Prada (Sep 10, 2015)

The main problem of Fi-doms is that they focus their F function on everything but have trouble expressing it correctly. Them not saying what the problem is or being passive aggressive (which is common for all IxFx) lies mainly in them having to deal with their feelings first before expressing them but at the same time, being Feelers, they can't help NOT expressing them. So, it's basically and inner struggle and they often aren't aware that it shows.

I other words, they don't "hide" how they feel, they simply need to figure out how they feel before they can find words to describe their feelings. Ti does the same thing but with logic. It also needs to figure out the logic within something before it describes it.

Fe users are different in the sense that Fe deals with emotions by expressing them so they will be more adept at that.

Te helps to balance Fi if Te is higher as it prefers to be direct, so instead of being passive aggressive a TJ might tell you "I don't want to talk about it (right now)."



NipNip said:


> I don't know it's very hard to explain but maybe someone can relate to the examples.


This is_ exactly_ how Fi-doms feel about their emotions. "I don't know it's very hard to explain how I feel but maybe they will get it from my behaviour." Fi and Ti act exactly the same way but one does for emotions and the other for logic.


----------



## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

NipNip said:


> When I hang out a lot with Fi doms there is this vibe that starts to annoy me. I've experience the same thing when I was 10-16yo with another friend. Looking back at it now, he's very likely to be an Fi user too.
> 
> It's very hard to describe but it examples are: when they are tired after a long day together they get really '_*****_', they hide how they _feel_ (ugh...) about something for a super long time but gradually (and very indirect) make you suspect what they really want or think of something, once they've made up their opinion based on _feelings_ or _values_ they act really stuborn (again not in a direct way), they talk in a suggetive way when they know damn well what they want or feel "I don't know.... Maybe we...", they stick with their believes after rational explanation from my behalf (I usually don't even try because that vibe tells me it's useless anyway), ...
> 
> I don't know it's very hard to explain but maybe someone can relate to the examples. Experiences? Thoughts?


Don't know if stubbornness is Fi/Fe related. ESTJ's are the most stubborn people I know and they have inferior Fi.

IMO responding to logical thinking is something that needs to be learned. Also, many people don't want to drop their believes just because it's logical. The most logical thing for everyone would be to kill themselves and end all suffering like pulling off a bandaid, but it's not a good logic to adopt if you want to live that is.

When that's said I think both Fe and Fi are annoying functions.

What T's often misunderstand about logic is that it's only good logic if it contributes to whatever end goal this person has. Nothing is generally logical without comparing it to a goal. 

I've discussed this with an ENTJ, and for him it's logical to exercise, have kids, save money, watch soccer, become rich etc. and when I ask him "why?", he can't provide an answer to support his logic. Needless to say I won't adopt anyone elses logic just because it's logical for them.


----------



## NipNip (Apr 16, 2015)

Wiz said:


> I've discussed this with an ENTJ, and for him it's logical to exercise, have kids, save money, watch soccer, become rich etc. and when I ask him "why?", he can't provide an answer to support his logic. Needless to say I won't adopt anyone elses logic just because it's logical for them.


The answer to the "why?" = because it's the general trend. It's what the standard prescribes based on what the largest part of society aims for right now or has done historically. I agree that the same 'logic' doesn't apply to people whom deviate from the generally assumed logic. When someone says "I don't want kids", it's only logical to NOT follow logic. Hah.


----------



## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

NipNip said:


> The answer to the "why?" = because it's the general trend. It's what the standard prescribes based on what the largest part of society aims for right now or has done historically. I agree that the same 'logic' doesn't apply to people whom deviate from the generally assumed logic. When someone says "I don't want kids", it's only logical to NOT follow logic. Hah.


So it's logical to just do what everyone else does? This is why I doubt "logic". Fe-types also tend to mistake the general norm for logic. It's not. From my Fi-perspective; birthing more people are quite selfish and illogical if the goal is to reduce suffering for all sentient beings.


----------



## Angina Jolie (Feb 13, 2014)

Prada said:


> The main problem of Fi-doms is that they focus their F function on everything but have trouble expressing it correctly. Them not saying what the problem is or being passive aggressive (which is common for all IxFx) lies mainly in them having to deal with their feelings first before expressing them but at the same time, being Feelers, they can't help NOT expressing them. So, it's basically and inner struggle and they often aren't aware that it shows.
> 
> I other words, they don't "hide" how they feel, they simply need to figure out how they feel before they can find words to describe their feelings. Ti does the same thing but with logic. It also needs to figure out the logic within something before it describes it.


WORD! Exactly. 

And Fi (also Ti) HATES expressing incomplete judgments. It takes time to know exactly what is happening, what we are feeling, what we think of it because it is detailed information we need to be certain of.


----------



## Stockholmaren (May 25, 2016)

@NipNip

Even if one is a reasonable person, you may still detect an unbalanced Fi in the person. My guess is because your feelings scan his way of sounding. 

Him=1
You=2

(1)--*Talks*--> (sends information from his various cognitive functions)-->(2)*You recieve infromation*-->(Your cognitive functions identify his information)

Now it is up to you on which information you want to acknowledge and ignore. But I believe it is very hard not letting your Fi communicate, if it is deeply experienced.

If someone is confusing you, it is the other person's problem. But if you have a relation with that person, then you figure out a way to communicate in clear vision.


----------



## bruh (Oct 27, 2015)

NipNip said:


> When I hang out a lot with Fi doms there is this vibe that starts to annoy me. I've experience the same thing when I was 10-16yo with another friend. Looking back at it now, he's very likely to be an Fi user too.
> 
> It's very hard to describe but it examples are: when they are tired after a long day together they get really '_*****_', they hide how they _feel_ (ugh...) about something for a super long time but gradually (and very indirect) make you suspect what they really want or think of something, once they've made up their opinion based on _feelings_ or _values_ they act really stuborn (again not in a direct way), they talk in a suggetive way when they know damn well what they want or feel "I don't know.... Maybe we...", they stick with their believes after rational explanation from my behalf (I usually don't even try because that vibe tells me it's useless anyway), ...
> 
> I don't know it's very hard to explain but maybe someone can relate to the examples. Experiences? Thoughts?


How many more years do we need to understand that homosexuals are not insults..
Anyhow
Sometimes you want someone to hear you out but don't want to burden that someone. If I had done what you describe it would be probably because of that.


----------



## TheJ (Aug 3, 2015)

I find that my Fi actually makes me mostly... well, pretty docile, I repress and doubt facts because often I know I can be mistaken, and that "facts" are infact subjective opinions- and that it's often a contradiction between facts that causes conflict.

When my Fi acts up, it's usually because someone tries to force their opinion or "logic" on me- by use of "force", when people go- 
if you don't believe me then i'll judge you, or i'll hate you, or i'll doubt your competence, because i clearly know better than you!
Of course, they don't say it loudly most of the time. But I find people who use this pattern of thinking to be offensive and disruptive, and I often find this with Te users.

I also dislike it when people interpret things said or actions done in a way that seems very negative, instead of opting to doubt their own facts at least until they are proven. I greatly understand that facts are a cause for conflict, as I've said, so I don't stick to them so much because I'm well aware that another person can have different facts that would offset mine. Also people often use hunches as if they are facts, and that is pretty unfair, although I can't pretend I never do that either.

So yes, my Fi is very good at giving benefit of the doubt, and so it expects something like that in return, although rarely gets it because people are often overconfident in what they think. When they do and use a certain "cold" rationality, especially about something dear to me, I often deny their "facts". This is something I often find to happen with Ti users. 
I find that they often are overconfident in what they think or say, as well as they don't seem to include the "human factor" into the equation as much as i do, that is- why a person has reasons to think this way or another and communicate yourself in a way that's more personalized to how that person is- which is the main difference between Fi and Ti IMO.

This ability does tend to make me "hide what i feel" as you stated, as often I'm unsure if it should be said or if i should even feel it- if it's "justified". It's hard to center on a feeling, feeling something is not as clear cut as knowing something, nor is it so easy to understand why one feels what they feel.


----------



## Plumedoux (Aug 16, 2015)

Prada said:


> The main problem of Fi-doms is that they focus their F function on everything but have trouble expressing it correctly. Them not saying what the problem is or being passive aggressive (which is common for all IxFx) lies mainly in them having to deal with their feelings first before expressing them but at the same time, being Feelers, they can't help NOT expressing them. So, it's basically and inner struggle and they often aren't aware that it shows.
> 
> I other words, they don't "hide" how they feel, they simply need to figure out how they feel before they can find words to describe their feelings. Ti does the same thing but with logic. It also needs to figure out the logic within something before it describes it.
> 
> ...


Be careful to not mix emotion with "feeling", it's different. 
I will add that Feeling functions are more abstract than thinking functions in their process, even more when it's an introvert function. So Fi dom struggle to provide a clear point of view or understanding to others, because this understanding manifest itself as an intangible essence, they are terrible at debating.
And Fi dom get a lot of frustration about expressing themselves unless they find a practical way to do it like art such as music, writing or paiting.


----------



## NipNip (Apr 16, 2015)

bruh said:


> How many more years do we need to understand that homosexuals are not insults..


Uhm... The fact you interpret the word '*****' as homosexual says more about you than it does about me. What happened to the original meaning of the word? To me that word has nothing to do with homosexuals.


----------



## umop 3pisdn (Apr 4, 2014)

NipNip said:


> Uhm... The fact you interpret the word '*****' as homosexual says more about you than it does about me. What happened to the original meaning of the word? To me that word has nothing to do with homosexuals.


Lol sure thing sis. Next you're going to say the N-word just describes a certain calibre of person and doesn't have a racial meaning.

It's a really bad choice of words on your part, take the L.


----------



## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

Wiz said:


> So it's logical to just do what everyone else does? This is why I doubt "logic". Fe-types also tend to mistake the general norm for logic. It's not. From my Fi-perspective; birthing more people are quite selfish and illogical if the goal is to reduce suffering for all sentient beings.


I think what the ENTJ meant was "these things do/would make me feel good, which makes it logical for me to do them". He just assumes that they would make everyone feel good, so when you asked "why?" he didn't realise you were asking what the end goal is, because it didn't occur to him that not everyone would find it obvious. 

Instead, he must have thought you were asking something much deeper, like, is it logical to have happiness as an end goal, or is it logical to have end goals at all, and that's what he couldn't answer.


----------



## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

@Prada got it right - there is a timing issue between knowing/feeling something internally (and therefore acting on the basis of that) versus being able to vocalize that and communicate that externally. 

Feelings (MBTI-definition) don't manifest as immediately-verbally-expressible concepts - they manifest as holistic sensations. I've likened it to having an ocean inside - sometimes there is calm; sometimes storms; sometimes the water is cold; sometimes boiling. But then often that has to be processed further. Fairly frequently in my life I have to pause and figure out where the nervous feeling in the pit of my stomach is coming from, for example, or all the factors that have contributed to my seething anger, because I don't often immediately have the words to translate it into running language concepts. Sometimes (rarely) I can express immediately why I feel the way I do, but usually it takes a bit of internal processing time before I can voice it completely in English language. So my Feelings are typically either awkwardly/imprecisely expressed or they take forever to express adequately - or both. 

The particularly difficult thing when it comes to a Ti dom (I have two in the immediate family!) is that sometimes they have little patience for what is not expressed with immediate logical accuracy. If my father (INTP) and brother (ISTP) didn't know me better, they might well think I was quite stupid, because I don't share the same ability to be as quick and precise with my wording as they are. It is certainly not the result of just being stubborn, or trying to be evasive (though I'd be lying if I said I was never either, of course) - but for the most part it's that Fi-dominant processing is just much more "muddy". But it's that same muddy processing that also allows me to handle vague and complex people-situations well - to be good with getting on others' emotional levels, with handling complicated and/or difficult emotions, and with quickly getting in touch with a person's deep pains and desires. It does have value, which I think TPs can tend to overlook.

Also - sometimes I don't really want to explicitly share how I feel with people I am not close to, but that doesn't mean I necessarily desire to mask my overall Feeling response. With time and experience, I have learned to better smooth over my external emotional responses and to wait things out (i.e., to save action for the time and place that action will be most effective) - a Fe skill for certain - but it's not native to me, and sometimes I don't judge it worth my energy. To me, my Feelings are my own territory, and I don't owe explanation or restriction of them to others, though I do generally try to keep myself pleasant and calm for the sake of overall harmony, respect, and co-existence. 

As for values, I feel that sometimes Ti users don't always look at the same parameters that Fi users are looking at when making decisions or judgments, and as such a rational explanation or argument may seem to fall on deaf ears - because it typically does not speak to the values-based criteria that we're using to make our personal call. I think we also tend to word things suggestively/tentatively because we tend to only feel comfortable speaking for ourselves (I'm not anyone else, so I can't decide for anyone else), even though we are quite firm in our own opinions. 

Finally - for what it's worth - personally I get very emotional labile when I am overtired and it is frustrating to myself as well. I used to deny it and try to "outrun" it. Nowadays I try to just get myself away from people and get some sleep.


----------



## giorgaros2 (Sep 2, 2014)

i dont know about that but i have understood from experience that Fi users are more selfish than the average person.They are very good friends but they dont have much empathy for others(Except for some xNFPs)


----------



## conroy (Jan 5, 2016)

TheJ said:


> I find that my Fi actually makes me mostly... well, pretty docile, I repress and doubt facts because often I know I can be mistaken, and that "facts" are infact subjective opinions- and that it's often a contradiction between facts that causes conflict.
> 
> When my Fi acts up, it's usually because someone tries to force their opinion or "logic" on me- by use of "force", when people go-
> if you don't believe me then i'll judge you, or i'll hate you, or i'll doubt your competence, because i clearly know better than you!
> ...


Well said! 
I agree with all your points, especially the part about points of contention with Ti and Te users.


----------



## Wiz (Apr 8, 2014)

compulsiverambler said:


> I think what the ENTJ meant was "these things do/would make me feel good, which makes it logical for me to do them". He just assumes that they would make everyone feel good, so when you asked "why?" he didn't realise you were asking what the end goal is, because it didn't occur to him that not everyone would find it obvious.
> 
> Instead, he must have thought you were asking something much deeper, like, is it logical to have happiness as an end goal, or is it logical to have end goals at all, and that's what he couldn't answer.


Yeah, that's my impression as well. But to prove a point to OP, what's logical for an individual isn't necessarily logical for the greater good, so you can't define logic without an end goal, therefor it's false to criticise other peoples logic without knowing what goal they are pursuing.


----------



## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

It's easy to associate Fi-doms with overemotional people or those who are emotionally immature. My persona IRL would not even give of the vibe of an F-dom, as I am often pointing out inefficiency with a place is running or casually discussing personal interests. I am certain people might be perceive me as a logical type. Fi is a "rational" function, after all. I'm getting the impression that IXFPs are perceived as people with a stubborn nature who simply acts and speaks according to how they feel all the time. I personally find those who discuss their feelings openly all the time off-putting. The manifestation of Fi is not that obvious in a person, or any function for that matter. Persona and Cognition are different things.

Being feeling types in general though, would result in a weakness on behalf of logic to back up the consistency of their judgements. I know Introverted Feeling doesn't usually value expressions of feeling (unless they were wanting to establish a closer relationship with someone). I personally appreciate directness in communication where everyone just says what they mean, confronts someone about any thoughts or feelings that are bothering in them, in order to fix the status of any kind of relationship with someone instead of just aggravating any communicative problems. 
But I do not blame anyone for disapproving of Fi based on personal experiences, especially for Ti ego types. I prefer to judge people individually though.


----------



## bruh (Oct 27, 2015)

NipNip said:


> Uhm... The fact you interpret the word '*****' as homosexual says more about you than it does about me. What happened to the original meaning of the word? To me that word has nothing to do with homosexuals.


So you know the majority uses it as homosexual and yet you continue to use it?


----------

