# SJ parents



## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

I think at times my SJ parents and I clash a lot in terms of communication styles. I need words of reassurance/ reaffirmation for example, to confirm to me that something personal is working or not, etc, whereas they emphasize more on how I should be more appreciative because they've done it with actions and experience.

Tell me examples of SJ parents-NF child interactions from your experience/observation


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## Sedna90377 (Nov 14, 2010)

I'm an NT, with SP parents.

Growing up, I basically got the opposite. I always got endless support in pretty much everything I did, which isn't always as great as it sounds in the case of a young person that needs direction. My dad is on the N/S border (ExTP), and was usually the one to step in with his version of crafty life lessons that I only understood later. Actions and experience are extremely important for a young person (especially N's in my opinion) to have taught to them. In my case, growing up without that kind of advisement meant having to plow through life without knowing or understanding basic life functioning skills, and having to figure them out on my own at a much later point in life than most people (continues to this day).

That said, N's absolutely need reassurance and support since their way of thinking is so much different than most of the people they're going to grow up around, and should definitely be praised for being themselves as long as they're not doing something harmful. Since most SJ's tend to be centered around experience or tradition, it's really easy for them to think that their kid's N type personality and ideas are wrong, or heading in the wrong direction, depending on the parents of course. There are going to be a lot of times where the words of reassurance that their kids need to hear directly contradict their own ideals and experience, which would make any parent uneasy, let alone traditional SJ types.

If you can, try explaining the way you feel to them by putting things in terms they would understand better. Maybe explain your situations by compairing them to the actions and experiences they gave you, and finding the similarities? Always think over their experience as best you can, even if you don't understand it yet, because there is definitely _some_ hidden value in there, if not the right answers entirely. At the same time, stress to them that while you definitely appreciate what they're doing for you and telling you, there are a lot of times when you can still be different than they are without being wrong. Be both as patient and expressive as you can, and they'll eventually start gaining new experience communicating with you, and you'll also develop a better understanding of where they're coming from as well.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

Sedna90377 said:


> I'm an NT, with SP parents.
> 
> Growing up, I basically got the opposite. I always got endless support in pretty much everything I did, which isn't always as great as it sounds in the case of a young person that needs direction. My dad is on the N/S border (ExTP), and was usually the one to step in with his version of crafty life lessons that I only understood later. Actions and experience are extremely important for a young person (especially N's in my opinion) to have taught to them. In my case, growing up without that kind of advisement meant having to plow through life without knowing or understanding basic life functioning skills, and having to figure them out on my own at a much later point in life than most people (continues to this day).
> 
> ...


thanks for this, will reflect over what you said


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## Miss Butterfly Girl (Aug 3, 2011)

Mom: ISFJ
Me: INTJ
Dad: INTJ

When my parents were divorced, I lived with my mother. She was overproctective of me and limited my choices a lot so I really did not know what I was good at or what I could really do. She was undoubtedly concerned about looking a certain way that would cause people to stare or whisper. Communicating to her was sometimes frightening beacuse my ideas were often shot down because she wanted me to do things her way (she was not abusive, just intrusive). There was no deviating or changing of anything, couldn't try anything new--it was always about staying in your comfort zone. Sometimes she saw me as cold, or insensitive especially when it came to family and rebellious of athourity. We hardly ever see eye to eye on things (at least when I am not pretending) but I do love her and have no doubt learned from her.

We Ns need to think out loud and NTs have this thing about discussing ideas and SFs need everything in stone almost. Ns could careless about immediate reality and the problem, rather focus on the underlying cause. As an NT, being out of touch with reality has cost me--and still is--I pay for it everyday--and my mother often doesn't understand me. But somehow we've made it work all these years. It takes a long time and it took a therapist and MBTI to finally shed some light. 

Try not to take everything personally, they just want your best intrest; they just have a way of going about it like we have ours. With your Ni, you should see where they are coming from immediately, they are very proud of being plain like that, you only need like seven seconds honestly (they're so straight-forward). I think INFJs fare better, since you guys are like the masters of wisdom and understanding people, they may come around to see you as the "wise one". My INFJ great-great aunt was that to my ISFJ mother.


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

I think all parents are SJ parents until proven otherwise. _They just don't understand.
_
*Ahem*

Anyway as for your post:



Raichan said:


> I think at times my SJ parents and I clash a lot in terms of communication styles. I need words of reassurance/ reaffirmation for example, to confirm to me that something personal is working or not, etc, whereas they emphasize more on how I should be more appreciative because they've done it with actions and experience.


This seems more like Fe/Fi clash than anything to do with being SJ.

Just my 2¢.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

cue5c said:


> I think all parents are SJ parents until proven otherwise. _They just don't understand.
> _
> *Ahem*
> 
> ...


I don't type everyone I clash with or everyone who misunderstands me as Sensor unless it's really proven. I see a lot of dom Se/dom Si in them.


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## cue5c (Oct 12, 2011)

Raichan said:


> I don't type everyone I clash with or everyone who misunderstands me as Sensor unless it's really proven. I see a lot of dom Se/dom Si in them.


I realize that. It was just the first thought that popped into my mind and I can't help myself sometimes. :tongue:

Anyway, I think you _should_ appreciate them. It's just one more perspective to add to your list of possibilities and another way of looking at how others may perceive a situation. I'm not saying you should follow their advice, I rarely do when others offer me their perspective, but it does allow me to fine-tune things.

Do you still live with your parents? If so, then I'd just ignore my post. I felt the same way you do when I lived with them and there are still little glimpses, but they're significantly more tolerable now that I'm living on my own.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

Miss Butterfly Girl said:


> Mom: ISFJ
> Me: INTJ
> Dad: INTJ
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your post. I once asked dad to take an MBTI test, he scored as ISFJ. 

'We Ns need to think out loud and NTs have this thing about discussing ideas and SFs need everything in stone almost. ' Oh yeah, this, I notice my parents seem more comfortable when certain traditions or beliefs are already within an established familiar setting or correlate with it. They seek reliability that has already manifested in physical reality, based on structure and also community, whereas I take into account concerns of communities as well but at the same time look at unseen connections between information and question a few ideas. I appreciate them giving me a stable ground all the years, but at the same time there have been many emotionally and psychologically challenging clashes, and I'm working on them internally.

At times I suppose they need things visibly ''proven'' and take in physical available clues in the process of making conclusion. Whereas I am okay with just studying the connections between certain information and think about how they can effect in terms of personal identity (of others as well as myself) and in the future. (I am thinking about certain cases here, not all cases). 

''Try not to take everything personally, they just want your best intrest; they just have a way of going about it like we have ours. With your Ni, you should see where they are coming from immediately, they are very proud of being plain like that, you only need like seven seconds honestly (they're so straight-forward). I think INFJs fare better, since you guys are like the masters of wisdom and understanding people, they may come around to see you as the "wise one". My INFJ great-great aunt was that to my ISFJ mother.'''

Ahh I hope so. Yes, with my Ni, I can understand them but being INFJ, we can get too used to being accommodating to the point that we keep in resentment that will only manifest a long time later :bored:


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## KateMarie999 (Dec 20, 2011)

I'll get to my SJ parent in a bit. Right now I'm going to focus on my dad (INTP).

His parents were ESTJ and ISTJ. This is a decent match in my opinion, they compliment each other well and don't tend to clash very much. The ESTJ is great at taking control and the ISTJ is passive enough to let him but strong enough to step in if he needs to be reigned in a bit.

But they're TERRIBLE when it comes to kids. My dad is an INTP and his brother is an ISFP (I think, I don't know him all that well). Dad felt very frustrated growing up and extremely unloved. His parents are actually a lot less stoic now than they used to be so they're a lot more affectionate with me (though they really don't understand me at all) but apparently growing up with them was a nightmare. Apparently they were stoic and unloving to him and as a result he can be extremely uncaring and not even realize it. They love him and his brother very much but they never really show it.

My mom is an ISFJ (I think it was a little ridiculous of my dad to MARRY an SJ after dealing with his parents but hey, they had me so I can't say I wish it never happened). She's, and I talk more in detail about this on the ISFJ forum, in a Si-Ti loop and so she's SUCH an SJ she stops caring about me altogether. I have no idea what to do with her, she's so incredibly hurtful and conditional in her affection.

I don't know what we Ns can do about SJ parents. It's clear they're never going to understand how we think. And a lot of SJs I know (not ALL of them but enough to make me think that it's a common thought among them) think that intuition is a waste of time and will work to reduce it in their children. I find those people to be misinformed and I don't waste my time with people like them.

In short, most SJs shouldn't be raising NPs. :dry:


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

KateMarie999 said:


> I'll get to my SJ parent in a bit. Right now I'm going to focus on my dad (INTP).
> 
> His parents were ESTJ and ISTJ. This is a decent match in my opinion, they compliment each other well and don't tend to clash very much. The ESTJ is great at taking control and the ISTJ is passive enough to let him but strong enough to step in if he needs to be reigned in a bit.
> 
> ...


Interesting story. I don't think my SJ parents ever discouraged my use of intuition. But I notice they do have trouble seeing the importance in some of my ideas, when they haven't connected them to the application yet. 

My mum at times teaches me some lessons with the emphasis that she doesn't want people to disrespect me -- there's a good and a bad in this. The good part of that I can feel easily ashamed from doing certain things. For example (just the one example of many) I learn to be more of a respectful guest and more respectful table manners when I go to an acquaintance's house. And if I act pushy in some way, I can easily feel the shame. It's like, it's become automatic. I know that others may disagree, but I don't see this as a bad thing. The bad of it is -- I acknowledge that it is important to care about community (I was not brought up in the West, I'm brought up in the East), but I really need a balance. I don't wish to lose my sense of authenticity through all of it.

Because if I end up doing certain things only because I am 'afraid' most people disrespect me, I will feel like I am not being honest with myself. I want to do what's right in terms of important group values (Fe), but not to the point of being unhealthy (unhealthy in a way that I define it).

Sorry babbling.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

This is a repost of something I wrote in a thread called "Strong Dislike for ISFJs"



soya said:


> As an INxP child, it wasn't always easy to have an ISFJ mother. She was often fussing about what was proper, how things should be done, what others expected... seemed overly prescriptive to me, sometimes even confining to my individual expression. She was also very protective, overly so in my opinion, and that bothered me more and more as I got older. I know now that she was just trying to keep me safe and instill in me good social habits, but at the time I found it all boring and obnoxious. As an INFP I didn't explicitly say anything to her about my dissatisfaction, I just tried to be a good kid... so I don't mean to say that things were awful and I was very rebellious - actually it was quite the opposite. Most of these feelings and thoughts I have kept inside, because I never wanted to hurt her feelings or make her feel like she failed me - even in my frustrations I could see her concern and love for me.
> 
> I think SJ parents will inevitably be seen as too mundane and too strict by their NP children, though. It's not that they're bad people or bad parents, it's just a clash in preferences, a lack of mutual understanding. If the parent is authoritarian, which some ISFJs are, it worsens things for the NP child. Of course, many children love parents that make them feel safe, give them a sense of appropriate boundaries, etc. - for me, I was always more interested in exploring the new and unknown, and not very concerned with being "normal"...so it was not the ideal parenting style for me. However, I don't feel that my ISFJ mother did a poor job or didn't care about me, not at all. She tried very hard to be a good parent, and often she was great - she could empathise with my child mentality, play with me at the park, and instill in me decency and manners.
> 
> ...


My dad's an ESFP... So I only have one SJ parent to comment on. Actually in some ways I feel more accepted by my mom than by my dad - they both are caring and supportive of my decisions in life, but my dad is a little bit absorbed in his own viewpoints and interests, where my mother tries to understand where I'm coming from more even if we differ. 

Probably the biggest clash I have with my mother is concerning outlook on life - she is more traditional, apt to accept the status quo -- I never have been like that. She's also very methodical and organized, and I'm pretty much slapdash and random.


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## Bear987 (May 13, 2012)

My dad, massive SJ. Me, NF all the way.

What I hated most about my SJ parent is that, as an NF I wanted to do the right thing naturally - even to a greater extent than was expected of me. My own, NF standards of compassion and being kind have always and will always be 'above and beyond' anything an SJ can ever imagine. Consequently, I didn't need my dad to tell me what to do and what not to do. His speeches and parental advice were simply redundant.

Whenever I did get in trouble, a simple talk would have sufficed, since my conscience would act up all by itself. But no, my dad liked to yell and hit me. Maybe not typical of an SJ, but the seemingly endless preachy talks were suffocating me.

My dad and I are not on speaking terms right now - my decision. I don't see how we will ever be able to simply get along. I have no respect for him at all.

Oh, what also didn't work is that my dad never 'got' what I was thinking about, or what I wanted to do with my life. That made me think that I was weird.


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