# Engaged Male ENFP and Female ISTJ - Here we go again...



## JohnyDoGood (Dec 17, 2009)

My fiancee and I have been together for almost 11 years, we have 3 kids, we got engaged 2 years ago. 6 months before that, I had an emotional affair with this this girl at work, ENFP as well. I got madly attracted to her and her as well. I immediately left my gf of then 9 years, figuring, immaturely (?) that I could not fell for another girl so hard and still love my gf.

Of course it backfired with the other girl and I realized the error of my ways and got back with the gf, proposed (It always had been very important to her, not at all to me) and bought a house. I then swore to myself this kind of affair (or any) would never ever happen again. My fiance got concerned about my mental health, got me to a pdoc and I was tentatively diagnosed with bipolar. 

So fast-forward to 3 months ago. I met this other girl, lovely, probably a Feeling type as well, we have known each other for a couple of years now and she started to show interest a couple of months ago. Now I'm in this situation where I'm obsessed with the "what if"s and really would like to experience this other relationship(s). Life with my fiance is of course routinized we have 3 kids afterall, her type amplifies the routine. The pdoc is no longer so sure about the diagnosis and has taken me off the meds.

We had a very open discussion where I explained what was going on. She figured I got attracted because I was bored, She says she will try to be less of a bore (I'm paraphrasing ) I want to believe her but I can't help feeling there is no use, you can't change something so fundamental. I just don't feel we connect in a meaningful way. I love her in a way, I invested a lot in this relationship, have 3 kids but I don't think I can deal with the fact that this will be my life for the next X years and I will never know other relationships. I also fear that I will fail her eventually. I'm also very frustrated that I had to take meds to fit socially in her life and stop "trying to fix things" and "having your second thoughts about everything".

What do you think? What can I do?


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## jozstyl (Nov 13, 2009)

Have you ever heard the saying, "people who are bored are boring people"? What that means is, you have a lot of control in how "boring" your relationship (and life) is. It sounds like your gf is willing to have a more exciting life, maybe you can take some initiative in planning things that would be fun and spice up your relationship instead of putting the responsibility on her. New people will always be more exciting becuase of the mystery, but new people eventually become old people...I think the real question is what are your expectations of a long-term relationship and are they reasonable? Food for thought perhaps...


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## Vanitas (Dec 13, 2009)

Try familiarizing yourself with the option of leaving (aside from imagining your future if staying like you have done) and see which one you like less?
If this F girl is not around, would you still want to leave? Are you staying because you want to or because you don't have any other choice?

If you don't want to stay, and you don't think there's a way you'd change your mind, just end it and make it as painless as possible. I hope you decide before you're legally married.


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## JohnyDoGood (Dec 17, 2009)

*jozstyl: *Never heard the saying. It makes sense though. First time I consider it from that angle. I will give it some thoughts.

*Vanitas: *It's not about the other girl. I have to admit she probably was the trigger but if I were to leave I would not leave for another, that, at least, is clear for me. 

If I look at my relationship logically, it's not that bad. I mean I could do a LOT worst but it's definitely missing something, some connection. I feel I would not be attracted to others in such way (more than a glance) if my relationship was ok.

Thank you both for sharing your input. I appreciate it.


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## INFpharmacist (Aug 7, 2009)

Perhaps you should need an 'open relationship'. But those seem to be very difficult to manage.


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## pikmenbattlehealer (Nov 29, 2009)

Your problem seems interesting. Being infp and having Ne---i pray to god i find a rountinized acceptance or passion. Otherwise it is way to easy to just change my perception and personality. I was even hoping to be the man and marry a P type that is more P than me. Hoping that this would make me buckle down(tied down by the bullet spray of responsibilities.) However that too seems irrational, since P types are typed as irrational ompared to J types. Hell, we both know J types are irrational in their own way---but it just seems like they are less at danger of thinning out their lines of Pawns((a chess analogy). Good luck to you----i amazed a J, and and STJ is interested in you so much as stale at it maybe I'm curious that she puts up with so much doubt and uncertainy of your inner being. How does she react to this?----It must put some stress on her as well---but to a person with Ne---it's like you've sacrifised all 9 of your cat lives to become settled down. Well in this case, maybe 6 lives.


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## Rouge (Sep 6, 2009)

Johnny, my ENFP friend has the same relationship history as you. She met her boyfriend 10 years ago when they were in school. However, they only started dating 5 years ago. This included a period where the distance was long distance. While he was away, other guys expressed interest in her and she fell for one of them. She felt guilty and broke up with the first guy. However, the relationship with the new guy didn't work out. So she went back to him and had an on-off relationship for 1-2 years. She was always the one who was more keen to get back together. However, she also kept her options open and dated others. Eventually, the guy decided to give the relationship another try. When that happened, she became unsure and asked for time to consider. They're together now but she's been attending glamorous parties to meet other single successful singles. When she found out I was moving to a "nice" area, she invited herself over so she could run into more potentials.

She doesn't sound like a nice person from the way I described her here. But she has many good qualities I appreciate. What I'm trying to say is, your type has the desire to (1) keep your options open in case you find something else better round the corner; (2) have an interesting and stimulating life because stability bores you and; (3) connect on a deep level with others, which can sometimes lead to a complicated love life.

Nothing wrong with these desires but they can lead to certain pitfalls. You may never settle down or find stability in any relationship. I think it's important to recognise this the next time you're tempted to move on the next option.

Personally, I feel that it's easier to settle down if you understand yourself- your strengths, your weaknesses, your tendencies and what effect these have on your life. You also need to know what you need from a partner in a relationship. There's no such thing as a perfect wife/girlfriend. There are pros and cons in every package. It's important to recognise that you're getting what you need in someone who's imperfect (like everyone else).

Okie dokes, I hope my post has been helpful and good luck in figuring out what to do about your situation!


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## SeekJess (Nov 1, 2009)

I don't like infidelity... and I don't understand why you would have 3 kids with someone and then be interested in someone else?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

*Get out! Get out now!*

OK, the title was a kneejerk reaction. But I think it's going to be a very rough road. With kids it's complicated, but at this point, marriage seems unwise. If your finance is typical of her type then marriage and tradition and the fullfilling of traditional roles have probably been very important to her all along. She may been living outside her true nature for all the years you've been together. Not the persona she presents so everything will work and fit into today's world, but what she _really_ needs. Is she fullfilled in her life with the kids, or in her work and in the relationship. In what ways?

I didn't catch how old you both are, but it seems like you have some unfullfilled dreams of your own. Maybe playing the field is important to you, so you don't feel you missed out. Maybe you just need to know you seriously looked at options and had choices before making a forever kind of decision. Ideally this was before kids, but it wasn't, so those relationships will be paramount in your life no matter where you live or who you're romantically involved with. ENFPs are notorious for staying in unfullfilling relationships long after they should end.

Have you talked about anticipated problems and strengths in a marriage? I'd be very surpised if you are in agreement about how to raise the kids also. You are coming from opposite sides of the spectrum. Is there any one not directly involved (besides us!) who could give you some good counsel? 

Are either of you financially dependent on each other? Is that a factor that might be influencing your decision? And finally, ENFPs need a lot of intensity and fun and affirmation of our awesomeness to be happy emotionally. We need the freedom to express our sensuality and creativity and be the crazy people we are, just as ISTJs need the freedom to be _who_ they are. With someone who truly loves and accepts them that way. If you don't feel a deep connection of the souls or we will feel denied and continue to look for one.


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## JohnyDoGood (Dec 17, 2009)

pikmenbattlehealer said:


> I'm curious that she puts up with so much doubt and uncertainy of your inner being. How does she react to this?----It must put some stress on her as well---but to a person with Ne---it's like you've sacrifised all 9 of your cat lives to become settled down. Well in this case, maybe 6 lives.


She is very hectic these days, it's apparent that she is freaking out even if you is pretending not to. She hides to cry and is all peppy in front of me, which is even more troubling. I honestly don't want to cause pain. Ever since we met each other's she's has been very stressed whenever I started discussing our relationship. 

I'm as surprised as you. Honestly if I was her I don't think I would have accepted another go at it. I would have kicked myself out of the curb so to speak.


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## JohnyDoGood (Dec 17, 2009)

Lilsnowy said:


> She may been living outside her true nature for all the years you've been together. Not the persona she presents so everything will work and fit into today's world, but what she _really_ needs. Is she fullfilled in her life with the kids, or in her work and in the relationship. In what ways?


I think she is fulllfilled by having a family and a good job (as a bank manager of all things  she already knows she will be there the rest of her life arggggghghh! ). 

When we got back together 2 years ago, she kept repeating how she felt she had fail in her life for disrupting our family. It never really was about us as a couple. It irritated the hell out of me. As if I killed an institution and not a relationship.



Lilsnowy said:


> I didn't catch how old you both are, but it seems like you have some unfullfilled dreams of your own. Maybe playing the field is important to you, so you don't feel you missed out. Maybe you just need to know you seriously looked at options and had choices before making a forever kind of decision. Ideally this was before kids, but it wasn't, so those relationships will be paramount in your life no matter where you live or who you're romantically involved with. ENFPs are notorious for staying in unfullfilling relationships long after they should end.


We were 6 months in when she got pregnant (we were in our early 20ies, now early 30), she wanted to keep it, I held my part of the responsability. I was about to leave her (for the same reason as now) before she got pregnant. Talk about standing at the crossing of a road. On this I have no regret, contrary to everything else in my life, my kids are without a single speck of doubt the most important thing in my life.



Lilsnowy said:


> Are either of you financially dependent on each other? Is that a factor that might be influencing your decision? And finally, ENFPs need a lot of intensity and fun and affirmation of our awesomeness to be happy emotionally. We need the freedom to express our sensuality and creativity and be the crazy people we are, just as ISTJs need the freedom to be _who_ they are. With someone who truly loves and accepts them that way. If you don't feel a deep connection of the souls or we will feel denied and continue to look for one.


Money wise we are independent, this is not a issue. I know how this family/marriage thing is so important to her. After 10 years I can say I love her in a way and I would never hurt her on purpose. I always believe relationships can be worked at, even salvaged but I'm not so sure now. I would hate for us both to wake up at 60 and realize our lives were wasted on each others.

I sound a little melodramatic, I'll try to be funnier in my future threads.


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

Johny, For an ISTJ, discussing unpleasantries and feeling rejected or criticized is going to be very stressful; They don't have the same ability to find the silver lining that we do, and it's tough for _us_ some days. She knows she'll be hearing that you don't really want to get married and she would like to avoid that. Nevertheless, I would try to sit down with her and talk about the plusses and minuses and see if you can entice her to share with you how she is fullfilled or not fullfilled in the relationship. She's probably scared: the idea of having all these kids and all the time put in and now you're leaving. Now you'll never be a family? That's devastating. 

However comma it doesn't warrant getting married to keep someone from feeling fear or dissapointment. It will be much worse if you marry under duress or guilt. Marriage should be a joyfyul union of souls and bodies and dreams, with _tons _of hard work and compromise in the mix. How are you both about making compromises now? 

It sounds like you'd be going into marriage with low commitment...and that would be a nightmare for _any _woman, not just an ISTJ. You have to decide if you want to be with this woman or not. If not, then it needs to come out and be dealt with, because _she _will need to be free too, to find someone she is suited to be with.


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

No, you absolutely do not want to wake up years from now feeling you've wasted your lives on eachother. That's a reasonable fear and one to take very seeriously.

I know how pregancy can change your plans. Kids draw you together when there may be little else. The kids will always be yours and your primary responsibility, but you could do them a lot of harm marrying their mom but not really loving her. They will see that and feel that and it will hurt them. _The best father you could be is one who cherishes their mother._ And if you don't, then break it off and be her friend, even if she doesn't want to be, while you raise them seperately. The level of respect will go a long way helping them to be healthy.


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## INFpharmacist (Aug 7, 2009)

JohnyDoGood said:


> I think she is fulllfilled by having a family and a good job (as a bank manager of all things  she already knows she will be there the rest of her life arggggghghh! ).
> 
> When we got back together 2 years ago, she kept repeating how she felt she had fail in her life for disrupting our family. It never really was about us as a couple. It irritated the hell out of me. As if I killed an institution and not a relationship.


Are you missing something in your life? A stable female is not the easiest thing to find, and it looks as though you have one. She has a managerial job (with holidays and probably weekends off) and continues to stand by you, and not another man.

I mean... is this really a problem with her or do you have a problem with making your own life exciting and stimulating enough?

What do you do for a living? If I were to guess, if you were an events coordinator or something that continuously changes like that, then you'd want a stable life to retreat to (or am I dead wrong?).

I mean... why are you having to look for emotional connections? Are you in the right career field?


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## JohnyDoGood (Dec 17, 2009)

INFpharmacist said:


> Are you missing something in your life? A stable female is not the easiest thing to find, and it looks as though you have one. She has a managerial job (with holidays and probably weekends off) and continues to stand by you, and not another man.
> 
> I mean... is this really a problem with her or do you have a problem with making your own life exciting and stimulating enough?
> 
> ...


She's a good woman, don't get me wrong. You are right, I may be the boring one, maybe I should get a couple more hobbies.  With 3 kids our life is not stable really, our relationship is though. When we talk about things, it seems we come from 2 different planets. She is very fact and detail oriented, I couldn't care less. When I talk, she disconnects but I'm too complicated, head-in-the-clouds. So if we don't talk about our jobs and kids we are pretty much screwed 

I'm a self-employed IT consultant, it suits me well most of the time, I meet a lot of people, I change projects quite often, get to help people see what they need and I get a lot of very good feedback most of the time. Some parts are of course less fun but I'm okay with that. I honestly think I found the right field for me and those 3-6 months projects suit me fine.

Why am I looking for emotional connections? It seems important to me, essential in fact, to understand and be understood, to feel ok with my crazy plans, to feel you can help her in words and actions and not feel a drag to her calm and stable lifestyle.


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## INFpharmacist (Aug 7, 2009)

JohnyDoGood said:


> She's a good woman, don't get me wrong. You are right, I may be the boring one, maybe I should get a couple more hobbies.  With 3 kids our life is not stable really, our relationship is though. When we talk about things, it seems we come from 2 different planets. She is very fact and detail oriented, I couldn't care less. When I talk, she disconnects but I'm too complicated, head-in-the-clouds. So if we don't talk about our jobs and kids we are pretty much screwed
> 
> I'm a self-employed IT consultant, it suits me well most of the time, I meet a lot of people, I change projects quite often, get to help people see what they need and I get a lot of very good feedback most of the time. Some parts are of course less fun but I'm okay with that. I honestly think I found the right field for me and those 3-6 months projects suit me fine.
> 
> Why am I looking for emotional connections? It seems important to me, essential in fact, to understand and be understood, to feel ok with my crazy plans, to feel you can help her in words and actions and not feel a drag to her calm and stable lifestyle.


You may have to try harder. S/N relationships can work. I'm an NF and my grandpa is ST, and we love each other to death.

Why do you need to make her the center of your emotional life? If y'all are coming from different directions, then just let that be.

I doubt you're dragging her down. She probably loves the excitement, but wants security nonetheless.

I wish I had more time to write... But I have to get dropped off at work, because someone has to use my car since his project cars were towed. :dry:


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## On the road to Damascus (Oct 1, 2009)

JohnyDoGood said:


> She's a good woman, don't get me wrong. You are right, I may be the boring one, maybe I should get a couple more hobbies.  With 3 kids our life is not stable really, our relationship is though. When we talk about things, it seems we come from 2 different planets. She is very fact and detail oriented, I couldn't care less. When I talk, she disconnects but I'm too complicated, head-in-the-clouds. So if we don't talk about our jobs and kids we are pretty much screwed
> .


Yikes - only talking about your jobs and the kids...this is a recipe for some serious problems 

I dated an ISTJ for about 9 months and communication was definitly a challenge...we just approached things from such different perspectives that never vibed together...I strive to have deep, emotional connections with the people I have relationships with and strive to be authentic...not that my ex way not authentic...but I think we ENFPs really want to be understood and "gotten" by our life partners and when we feel misundestood or not even attempted at being understood then there is frustration and perhaps a bit of misery...and not feeling like you are connecting.

This is an important element of compatibility that might be missing...not sure how you can increase the communication flow between the two of you. Have you tried couple's counselling?

I had a friend who went to couple's counselling because the marriage was in trouble...but neither partner really knew if it was salvageable and/or how to end it...the counsellor got the couple to a place where they were really discussing their issues and they agreed to end the marriage...the counsellor helped them let go...everyone went through all of the counselling in real time together (not for years after the marriage ended) and the healing process was alot less. I am not suggesting that you and your fiance go to couple's counselling with the idea of splitting up but in the situation I just described, it was the best solution for this particular couple.

Maybe this option will really get at alot of your issues as a couple and you can get to some more common ground and make a mutual decision (to stay together or to split up) for everyone's sake - you, your fiance and the children.


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## Lilsnowy (Sep 9, 2009)

A good, stable woman is a blessing in marriage; It can be great to have someone who pays attention to details and doesn't mind work, and who feels good taking care of her family. But without the emotional connection between the two of you, and the full acceptance you both need, you will be unhappy and each day may feel like a loss to you. I think you already feel that or worry about it or you wouldn't be questioning it. 

It's crucial to have other friends and interests that are fullfilling in your life; ENFPs need deep bonding and we know it's very hard to find in one person. We're attracted to the ones that are the least likely to provide it sometimes because they challenge us and 'complete us.' Other times because we're afraid to commit because what if someone else comes along.


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## genie (Feb 3, 2010)

Don't enter in a relationship with an ISTJ if you are ENFP.

I'm married to an ISTJ guy and I'm an ENFP. We have a 21 month old daughter. We can barely have conversations and if we do it is exhausting. My ISTJ husband is always 'right' and if things are not perfectly to the 't' he is grumpy and angry about it. Currently I am living apart from my husband. I'm not sure what I will do. But if I know, if I had lived with him before we married, and seen and felt his exacting, critical nature before we married, I would not have gotten married to him. 

You will be always looking for that connection with someone with qualities that you don't find with your GF and that would not be fair to the loyal ISTJ GF. It is better that you part ways now and each of you can both try to find the correct person to compliment your true natures.


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