# Choosing a college subject



## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

I'm an ENTJ, but hell, I don't know what I would enjoy. There's one available college here (no possibility of moving at the moment), which has plenty of subjects. I don't necessarily have to roll in, but I'm just thinking about it, but since I don't know much about it, I want to get feedback. So let me start by describing my problem.

My problem is that my whole life I was interested in IT, just a general interest. But recently I started learning programming and I found it *very* boring. The usual IT stuff like networking or helpdesk doesn't interest me either, so it turns out I was just generally interested because I used a computer. I know lots of little things but nothing major when it comes to computers, I can learn lots of things, but I don't have an interest in doing those things daily. And I'm definitely not interested in any kind of design because I'm not an artsy guy.

So I'm not interested in IT it appears, what's next? I had an appeal for psychology at some point in my life, but i don't think I could stand listening to peoples' problems all day long and I don't think I would genuinely care or feel any empathy at all. Maybe sympathy if my definitions are correct for these words. I could not slip into someone's shoes, I can only feel sorry for someone. But I could not feel sorry for someone who eats a nice dinner and pukes it out or for someone who has a 5-digit income and can't stop stealing. I also don't accept the psychological disease terms, not in loose terms like they are today.

So no psychology either. Once I wanted to write about my points of view, but I don't have enough experience to do it and I would not want someone to use my ideas as their own or worse - capitalize on them. I used to write game reviews about 10 years ago though. I liked it but it wasn't rewarding and I stopped.

So now I don't know what else I could try or do or be interested in. I have never thought about this before and now that I actually have to think about it, I don't know. I was always happy with myself the IT guy, I was known for my IT skills in our class and people who I was talking to. I really enjoyed management but I had a very short experience with that. There is some sort of a manager program here but it's useless. Many workplaces even look at it as a bad thing because around 50% of the students took that position a couple years back, it was just too easy, you didn't have to learn much at all and you still don't. So the managers see it as some sort of a partying solution for the lazy.

Anyway, I'm open to suggestions, as if you need to know something, anything.


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## LostTheMarbles (Mar 4, 2012)

IT doesn't have to be about programming or help desk work, you obviously like something about IT at the moment, what is it? Maybe you could find a job that fits around that.

Psychology isn't just about becoming a therapist and listening to people's problems, it's about understanding the way people think so there're so many fields where this can be important, maybe take a look online and see what types of careers psychology leads into.


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## Emerson (Mar 13, 2011)

What about smart systems? If they offer that course, that's an awesome thing to study. (Two of my friends did their undergrad in it) looks very interesting.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

Do a mix of IT and business. It can open you up to a lot of opportunities. I'm not going to lie, for the most part to break into the IT industry, you will need to do some sort of user support at the bottom of the food chain. You can advance quickly. Since business is driven by IT, there are more opportunities available as time goes on.


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## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

LostTheMarbles said:


> IT doesn't have to be about programming or help desk work, you obviously like something about IT at the moment, what is it? Maybe you could find a job that fits around that.
> 
> Psychology isn't just about becoming a therapist and listening to people's problems, it's about understanding the way people think so there're so many fields where this can be important, maybe take a look online and see what types of careers psychology leads into.


I began taking interest in IT because I was a total introvert as a kid, so a computer was a great get away tactic. I played games at first, but when I got a computer at home, obviously I started figuring out how the thing works. In a few days I knew as much as the IT guys where I used to use the computer before and in a week or so more than them. After that it's just been me doing something. Gaming, overclocking, taking interest in hardware and software, starting some sort of goofy stupid project, etc, etc, etc. A lot of things, but I never went deeper into any of them because it's just boring to me. Usually when I do something, I know it better than an average guy or often than someone who takes interest in it in a short period of time, but I never know as much as a decent user.

I'm interested in understanding people, that's why I was interested in psychology. But I'm not interested in academic career because it's too... I don't know how to explain this. Can I get away with saying too calm? I want action, I want to be active, move, do, achieve, improve, create. I don't want to sit around trying to figure out if a certain group of people would like a certain change in our product. And I gave this example because I took a look at psychology careers and it seemed interesting. But I KNOW that I would NOT want to sit around. I'm too action-oriented to do that. It could be my hobby but that's it. Discussing it on some forums (even here) would satisfy it and more than that. Also selecting workers fit for a position would definitely interest me. But I know it wouldn't have enough action for me and eventually I'd end up doing something half-crazy because I NEED to achieve something, I need to keep improving and moving forward. That's how I always been.



Emerson said:


> What about smart systems? If they offer that course, that's an awesome thing to study. (Two of my friends did their undergrad in it) looks very interesting.


No smart systems course around here unfortunately. In fact, that's the first time I heard about this subject at all. It does look interesting however, which is why I'm going to read about it just as a general interest after I post this. Thanks for pointing me to it!



PowerShell said:


> Do a mix of IT and business. It can open you up to a lot of opportunities. I'm not going to lie, for the most part to break into the IT industry, you will need to do some sort of user support at the bottom of the food chain. You can advance quickly. Since business is driven by IT, there are more opportunities available as time goes on.


I had a user-support entry-level position, it was awful. I was told it could lead to administration or to technician (so hardware entry-level position). Both ideas were awful to my mind, the user-support's better than drilling holes and making a new network setup. That's not something I'd enjoy at all.

I did talk to people who are higher in the IT industry. Not from here, I just know some people online, mostly from Sweden, Germany, France and UK. Every single one of them told me that you won't get promoted to a manager until the old one gets fired, which makes a lot of sense. But (and here's the punchline) you gotta do free overtime and you gotta obey every single manager's command to be able to be even considered for that position. Now, depending on a company, a manager keeps his position for 5 to 20 years. And I could barely keep myself together obeying the inefficient commands I was told to do by the manager for 2 months.

Anyway... Could you be more specific about the opportunities you are talking about? Business and IT mix as much as creative/doer work goes, other than that, I don't see where and how it could mix. Nor do I know what subject I could study to get into this.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

skyTJ said:


> But (and here's the punchline) you gotta do free overtime and you gotta obey every single manager's command to be able to be even considered for that position. Now, depending on a company, a manager keeps his position for 5 to 20 years. And I could barely keep myself together obeying the inefficient commands I was told to do by the manager for 2 months.


As we speak I am doing "free" overtime doing a 4AM deployment (I normally start work a 5AM). Any salaried IT position will require you to work overtime and you don't get anything extra for it. For me I try to keep as much of a 40 hour week as I can and for the most part I can have a little push back since I work a shift nobody wants to and also I live in the middle of nowhere and it's impossible for them to keep talent here. I was flat out told a very strong point for me as a candidate is I had a reason to be in the town I am in (since this is my hometown). It is amazing the crap some people pull like coming in late, long lunch breaks, and smoke breaks every so often.



> Anyway... Could you be more specific about the opportunities you are talking about? Business and IT mix as much as creative/doer work goes, other than that, I don't see where and how it could mix. Nor do I know what subject I could study to get into this.


It really depends on the size of company you work for. I work for a large corporation so there is a big division of duties. In a small shop you'll probably be a jack of all trades. In a bigger company there are business analysts that interface with the business and take customer requirements and put them in IT speak. There's project managers who manage the projects. There are also people who are just concerned with vendor relations. There are also people concerned just with processes such as ITIL.


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## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> As we speak I am doing "free" overtime doing a 4AM deployment (I normally start work a 5AM). Any salaried IT position will require you to work overtime and you don't get anything extra for it. For me I try to keep as much of a 40 hour week as I can and for the most part I can have a little push back since I work a shift nobody wants to and also I live in the middle of nowhere and it's impossible for them to keep talent here. I was flat out told a very strong point for me as a candidate is I had a reason to be in the town I am in (since this is my hometown). It is amazing the crap some people pull like coming in late, long lunch breaks, and smoke breaks every so often.
> 
> 
> 
> It really depends on the size of company you work for. I work for a large corporation so there is a big division of duties. In a small shop you'll probably be a jack of all trades. In a bigger company there are business analysts that interface with the business and take customer requirements and put them in IT speak. There's project managers who manage the projects. There are also people who are just concerned with vendor relations. There are also people concerned just with processes such as ITIL.


To be honest, IT positions sound totally horrible! Let me tell you about my understanding of employment as a (hopefully) future manager and a worker. I acted like this in the position I wrote about in my previous message.

You come in on time, preferably about 2 minutes earlier, so you're at your PC, ready to work exactly at the time your shift starts. You go out exactly when it's over, unless you're in the middle of writing an email or something, then you finish it and go out as soon as you can. We had an hour long lunch break, so you take the whole hour, you go out and come back as close to 60 minutes as possible, because you ain't gonna be paid for this time, this time is YOUR time, you are supposed to rest, eat, whatever during that time, you are NOT supposed to work however. Working overtime should be paid. If it's not, it's unfair and it's abusing the employee and this is my opinion about it, this is how my values are and it's not gonna change. Sure, family tried to prove to me that "if you work, you do whatever you're asked to do", well I don't bend that way, I'm gonna do whatever I am supposed to do according to my contract. UNLESS I know that I'll get something out of it: a promotion, extra money, would probably even take money on the side which is not legal, but if it's just to keep my position, screw 'em!

Most companies are small where I live, but they aren't the personal tiny business kind. Medium sized maybe? Anyway, I really don't like to IT grunt work I needed to do, and after realizing that, well that's the purpose of this thread, haha!


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

skyTJ said:


> To be honest, IT positions sound totally horrible! Let me tell you about my understanding of employment as a (hopefully) future manager and a worker. I acted like this in the position I wrote about in my previous message.


It has its ups and down. I'm a Systems Administrator and at 24 years old I make $10,000 more than the average household income here and double the per capita income. My degree literally paid for itself in 2 years.



> Most companies are small where I live, but they aren't the personal tiny business kind. Medium sized maybe? Anyway, I really don't like to IT grunt work I needed to do, and after realizing that, well that's the purpose of this thread, haha!


I hate to break it to you but you will start as the grunt anywhere you go. Get any labor job and you will be doing the most labor intensive work (I had my fair share of those summer jobs). Any job you have to start at the bottom and in IT that's usually user support.


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## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> It has its ups and down. I'm a Systems Administrator and at 24 years old I make $10,000 more than the average household income here and double the per capita income. My degree literally paid for itself in 2 years.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate to break it to you but you will start as the grunt anywhere you go. Get any labor job and you will be doing the most labor intensive work (I had my fair share of those summer jobs). Any job you have to start at the bottom and in IT that's usually user support.


Actually the position I was in was the lowest position (also with clients) but I did sysadmin work too, which was part of the boring activities I was doing. I certainly have no interest whatsoever in doing something I hate only because it pays average or slightly higher than average salary. I'd prefer doing something I enjoy for average or a bit lower than average salary instead. I know that at least I would be happy and I would go up eventually anyway.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

skyTJ said:


> Actually the position I was in was the lowest position (also with clients) but I did sysadmin work too, which was part of the boring activities I was doing. I certainly have no interest whatsoever in doing something I hate only because it pays average or slightly higher than average salary. I'd prefer doing something I enjoy for average or a bit lower than average salary instead. I know that at least I would be happy and I would go up eventually anyway.


I guess with the Sys Admin work how big the company is. Here I front over 2000+ servers and take care of stuff on an operational basis (keep the lights running). I don't work with users on a regular basis and if I do work with a user, the request has filtered through 2 levels below me. It makes the day more interesting to just deal with servers.


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## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> I guess with the Sys Admin work how big the company is. Here I front over 2000+ servers and take care of stuff on an operational basis (keep the lights running). I don't work with users on a regular basis and if I do work with a user, the request has filtered through 2 levels below me. It makes the day more interesting to just deal with servers.


I think for me the idea in itself, that I'd be seeing that a bunch of computers work properly, do maintenance on them, and sometimes improve something a little bit in the system... It just isn't something I'm interested in. And yes, the company was small, but we oversaw 50 or so other companies, so I had to take care of a few quite big systems. It was boring repetitive work is how I saw it. Nor did I like sitting at the computer whole day. I've too much energy for that and I don't find it interesting to talk to the coworkers because I don't find casual conversations entertaining. It was a torture in a way. Sometimes I felt delighted to talk to a customer when I felt he wasn't an idiot. One woman sounded really awesome, spoke for 20min with her, exchanged funny customer stories. But we kept it on topic and I was working at the time we were talking, so not wasting my time either. Was a delightful event compared to the whole day of boring, repetitive bull. And I have not mentioned another important thing to me too: I can't express my ideas or thoughts doing that kind of work. I'm not interested in troubleshooting, I'm interested in creating, managing and improving.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

skyTJ said:


> I think for me the idea in itself, that I'd be seeing that a bunch of computers work properly, do maintenance on them, and sometimes improve something a little bit in the system... It just isn't something I'm interested in. And yes, the company was small, but we oversaw 50 or so other companies, so I had to take care of a few quite big systems. It was boring repetitive work is how I saw it. Nor did I like sitting at the computer whole day. I've too much energy for that and I don't find it interesting to talk to the coworkers because I don't find casual conversations entertaining. It was a torture in a way. Sometimes I felt delighted to talk to a customer when I felt he wasn't an idiot. One woman sounded really awesome, spoke for 20min with her, exchanged funny customer stories. But we kept it on topic and I was working at the time we were talking, so not wasting my time either. Was a delightful event compared to the whole day of boring, repetitive bull. And I have not mentioned another important thing to me too: I can't express my ideas or thoughts doing that kind of work. I'm not interested in troubleshooting, I'm interested in creating, managing and improving.


One thing you can do in IT that you can't do in most other industries is automate you job.


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## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> One thing you can do in IT that you can't do in most other industries is automate you job.


Not if the systems are 2 decades old. I couldn't believe people still used XP here, computers both mine and at most companies we overlooked were single-core processors, 256-512mb of RAM. We had old CRT and the very first LCD monitors in our office for repairs. We and our clients used old abandoned software that hasn't been updated for 5 years by the developers. Even their websites used some in-house bull system by us that was created by the manager. The software sucked so bad it didn't show the website properly in IE (even 10) and Chrome, it only worked in Firefox. The administration panel didn't work properly at all, half the changes needed to be done using the SQL database. To use it, you had to call and ask for a new password, and often deal with what some other smuck messed up, changed some variable just for fun, just because he thought it'd be interesting to edit the php files. There was another group of people who sold new hardware. They always tried to pick everything as cheap as possible and as old as you can get, even the software, because "WE ARE USED TO IT". Should I go on or is that enough? You couldn't know that because probably it isn't like that where you live anyway.

And even if I could automate it, I actually tried some of that for fun at home. So, I would have to just run checkups. It's efficient and would give me lots of free time unless the manager found out. But so what? I already said repeatedly that I want to do something I enjoy actively. All I could do is read or work on something personal using the computer (coding a game, writing a book, creating a website) and I'm not interested in that. While I thank you for suggestions and replies, you seem to miss this part and it's a very important part in my head.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

skyTJ said:


> Not if the systems are 2 decades old. I couldn't believe people still used XP here, computers both mine and at most companies we overlooked were single-core processors, 256-512mb of RAM. We had old CRT and the very first LCD monitors in our office for repairs. We and our clients used old abandoned software that hasn't been updated for 5 years by the developers. Even their websites used some in-house bull system by us that was created by the manager. The software sucked so bad it didn't show the website properly in IE (even 10) and Chrome, it only worked in Firefox. The administration panel didn't work properly at all, half the changes needed to be done using the SQL database. To use it, you had to call and ask for a new password, and often deal with what some other smuck messed up, changed some variable just for fun, just because he thought it'd be interesting to edit the php files. There was another group of people who sold new hardware. They always tried to pick everything as cheap as possible and as old as you can get, even the software, because "WE ARE USED TO IT". Should I go on or is that enough? You couldn't know that because probably it isn't like that where you live anyway.
> 
> And even if I could automate it, I actually tried some of that for fun at home. So, I would have to just run checkups. It's efficient and would give me lots of free time unless the manager found out. But so what? I already said repeatedly that I want to do something I enjoy actively. All I could do is read or work on something personal using the computer (coding a game, writing a book, creating a website) and I'm not interested in that. While I thank you for suggestions and replies, you seem to miss this part and it's a very important part in my head.


Trust me I've seen companies like that. We're in the process of upgrading from XP (which I currently have on my computer) to Windows 7 and we're a large corporation (8000+ users). XP was solid as heck so basically the thing was, if it's not broke don't fix it. XP does support PowerShell :wink: so you can automate a lot of tasks with it. You can also strive to standardize and clean up the environment as much as possible. That makes things more predictable and makes your job easier.

I've been in your situation and also my current job is kind of the same way with certain things (but at an enterprise level). The thing is there are certain things you can control. Collect data and get rid of those reoccurring problems. Then if you hate your job so much, use the extra time you now have to learn stuff to align you to get a new job.


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## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> Trust me I've seen companies like that. We're in the process of upgrading from XP (which I currently have on my computer) to Windows 7 and we're a large corporation (8000+ users). XP was solid as heck so basically the thing was, if it's not broke don't fix it. XP does support PowerShell :wink: so you can automate a lot of tasks with it. You can also strive to standardize and clean up the environment as much as possible. That makes things more predictable and makes your job easier.
> 
> I've been in your situation and also my current job is kind of the same way with certain things (but at an enterprise level). The thing is there are certain things you can control. Collect data and get rid of those reoccurring problems. Then if you hate your job so much, use the extra time you now have to learn stuff to align you to get a new job.


I don't have that job anymore. But anyway, I did try to clean up the situation and even spoke to the manager eventually. He brushed me off as if I was some kind of underling. A co-worker later told me that he laughed at me in a manner that goes something like this: "another young, overly-ambitious idiot with no education, who does he think he is? He's in the lowest position here, he should do what he's told and keep his mouth shut". Good thing they didn't have a reason to fire me though, because I did my job as I was supposed to.

But speaking of learning things to align with a new job, that's the thing, that's one of the purposes for this thread! I don't know what would be realistic for me to seek. Seek a job or seek education, which section to seek education in? Job? I feel like I do not have any interest whatsoever in the grunt work in IT section (and even the advanced work, like enterprise level sysadmin for example). I hated doing it, I hated my time spend at work, I even hated that I put up with it, especially because there were no prospects. I spoke more about this in the first post by the way.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

skyTJ said:


> I don't have that job anymore. But anyway, I did try to clean up the situation and even spoke to the manager eventually. He brushed me off as if I was some kind of underling. A co-worker later told me that he laughed at me in a manner that goes something like this: "another young, overly-ambitious idiot with no education, who does he think he is? He's in the lowest position here, he should do what he's told and keep his mouth shut". Good thing they didn't have a reason to fire me though, because I did my job as I was supposed to.


Then those people wonder why they are unemployable when circumstances require them to find another job.


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## Manunkind (Jan 2, 2012)

>OR sr. analyst here
>OR = Operations Research = cross breed of calculus+comp sci+business

Whilst a lot of what I would of posted has already been typed, so I will not beat out a dead horse. Try to think of this has a brand name recognition. You seem very scattered on what you want to do(which is perfectly fine in the college level as I was the same way), however, to mitigate that I recommend that you possible do a dual major program. At least cover as much ground as possible. Once you graduate and take whatever job you decide upon, you may end up *hating* it/the field in general(there is a different between working and academia). Although you hated the mundane programming theory, a degree in computer science does open up a lot of doors. In my firm we recently hired someone in the OR department with a comp. sci. degree. 

Just try not to stress over it in general and get the best gpa that you can get. After 5-7 years of working, what you did in your bachelors really means nothing(as after that time period, experience and graduate work start to weigh in).


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## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> Then those people wonder why they are unemployable when circumstances require them to find another job.


You mean me or do you mean the manager?



Manunkind said:


> >OR sr. analyst here
> >OR = Operations Research = cross breed of calculus+comp sci+business
> 
> Whilst a lot of what I would of posted has already been typed, so I will not beat out a dead horse. Try to think of this has a brand name recognition. You seem very scattered on what you want to do(which is perfectly fine in the college level as I was the same way), however, to mitigate that I recommend that you possible do a dual major program. At least cover as much ground as possible. Once you graduate and take whatever job you decide upon, you may end up *hating* it/the field in general(there is a different between working and academia). Although you hated the mundane programming theory, a degree in computer science does open up a lot of doors. In my firm we recently hired someone in the OR department with a comp. sci. degree.
> ...


This sounds good actually, really good. Making decisions on the best ways to do something. As long as it's not finance, I'm good with it because I couldn't stand math in school, only the theoretical problems which everybody else seemed to be struggling with. 2 minutes, it's done, everyone else used to take at least half the lesson. And I was the one who hated formulas and never learned them.

I read that business degree is needed for OR, which would be fine with me, but... As I wrote earlier, business degree is something people look down on around here, even the employers.

But yes, I'm very scattered about what I want to do. I don't think It is the way to go for me. The curriculum is awful of any IT subjects, they don't hold interest to me. I think I'll just take a look at all the faculties, subjects and choices and post back later today.


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## PowerShell (Feb 3, 2013)

skyTJ said:


> You mean me or do you mean the manager?


The manager you described. If they are stuck in their ways I'm sure if they had an interview and were asked how they did their job and it basically came down to, "if it's not broke don't fix it," and they couldn't provide examples they provided real value as a manager, then they're not very employable.


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## skyTJ (Jun 21, 2013)

PowerShell said:


> The manager you described. If they are stuck in their ways I'm sure if they had an interview and were asked how they did their job and it basically came down to, "if it's not broke don't fix it," and they couldn't provide examples they provided real value as a manager, then they're not very employable.


Sucks to be them then, but I don't care because I won't be affected, and now I was affected by that. Also the company probably won't fire him, it seems to be holding old workers in the first place.


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