# Sensing or iNtuition? Give me some new questions to answer!



## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

I always type as an N on quizzes (like 100% N), but I think I'm an S. 

I'd like to answer some creative and interesting questions that aren't too similar to the kind which show up on quizzes.. if that makes sense. 

Ultimately, I want some validation on my type to know whether or not I should keep questioning my functions to the extent that I am doing. :happy:


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

This is the post I accidentally put in the other thread... here it is in the right place now. *blush*


Try just describing how your mind works, like this. Here's something I wrote once, as an example:



> Right now I feel calm and comfortable, yet also mentally active. I'm visualizing all these possible ways of being, all kinds of scenarios... and I'm trying to tie myself down to one of them, but it's difficult to do.
> 
> I seem to unconsciously register an idea of the nature of everything around me and in my mind, and the ones relevant to whatever I'm focused on come into consciousness. I then imagine all the possible ways the things I'm focused on could be connected, and usually one or two will jump out at me as being "right" or "fitting" the idea I have in mind somehow. So then, I usually follow that particular configuration as far as it will go... trying to figure out what it might mean, what it leads to, what it's similar to, and what it's different from. Basically, after I've gotten the form of a particular idea in mind, I compare it to all sorts of known qualities and try to categorize it in as many ways as possible, so that I can describe it.
> 
> Once I've described things, I try to get feedback from others in order to get affirmation that I've helped in some way, and that what I described made sense.


 How do you think? How do you process reality? 

How much attention do you pay to what's going on around you, when you're walking down the street? What kind of things do you notice, what stands out to you? Do you enjoy situations where you have to use your reflexes, games of sport, etc? Are you more interested in doing things and taking action, or daydreaming about things?


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

Describe to me how a person grows. 

Don't ask for me to clarify the question--for that is part of the question.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

@delphi367

*thank, unthank, thanks correct post* :laughing:

Thanks for the example! 

It's hard to describe how I think. I'm always thinking, and when I'm trying to think of what I'm thinking then I only think, "Well, I'm thinking.." That was supposed to be serious, but it ended up turning idiotic. It's true though. Hm.. what can I say? My mind is very scattered. I'll have to get back to that. 

I believe I process reality in a straight-forward sense. I'm not sure since I don't know how others process reality to compare. 

I am very absent-minded, though I must add that I'm an insomniac so sleep deprivation could be the cause of it all. I bump into things all the time. Very clumsy. I would be that person that walks into a glass door. Something that looks out of the ordinary and extravagant would catch my attention. Like a huge christmas tree in the middle of a city. I'd stop everything and stare at its beauty. I _love_ the lights and decorations of a city during the holiday season. It just makes me happy. 

Oh god no. I hate sports. I have the reflexes of a sloth. I'm alright at video games if that counts..  No wait, I am good at.. badminton! Well, better than any other sport I suppose.. 

I'm interested in both. I love daydreaming, but I still want to _do_ something as well, you know? I think I gravitate more to daydreaming first though.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Antipode said:


> Describe to me how a person grows.
> 
> Don't ask for me to clarify the question--for that is part of the question.


Let's see.. I think a person grows in 3 places. Body, spirit, and mind. 

Our bodies grow naturally. It's just a fact of life. The mind grows through absorbing information and knowing how to take that information and put it to use in life. Schooling can help the mind grow. The spirit.. that's different. I think many people can physically grow to adulthood but never learn how to grow spiritually. I'm not talking in a religious sense of the word, but in your soul. I can't explain it. I guess it's kind of like finding your personal ambitions and dreams in life and working on it. Passion, self discovery, etc. 

There was this quote that resonated with me.. "One person working toward a dream is worth more than 99 people just working."


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

zazara said:


> Let's see.. I think a person grows in 3 places. Body, spirit, and mind.
> 
> Our bodies grow naturally. It's just a fact of life. The mind grows through absorbing information and knowing how to take that information and put it to use in life. Schooling can help the mind grow. The spirit.. that's different. I think many people can physically grow to adulthood but never learn how to grow spiritually. I'm not talking in a religious sense of the word, but in your soul. I can't explain it. I guess it's kind of like finding your personal ambitions and dreams in life and working on it. Passion, self discovery, etc.
> 
> There was this quote that resonated with me.. "One person working toward a dream is worth more than 99 people just working."


Well damn. That answer was quite a healthy mix of senses and intuitive. 

Yet, there is a stronger pull toward the intuitive within that answer. It was much more on the vague side--open ended for discussion. But, one question/answer is obviously never enough to decide.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Antipode said:


> Well damn. That answer was quite a healthy mix of senses and intuitive.
> 
> Yet, there is a stronger pull toward the intuitive within that answer. It was much more on the vague side--open ended for discussion. But, one question/answer is obviously never enough to decide.


That's why I believe my sensing and intuition is somewhere in the middle of my functions! I know I am an Fi-dom. 

You're right, I don't think a single question is enough to completely convince me.. 

Thanks for sharing it though. It was very interesting. :happy:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

I'll try the mind whisperer thing that @delphi367 mentioned. 

Here's a look into my mind.. 



> Okay, here we go.. I am assessing the example and trying to write it in a likewise fashion. I physically feel sick because I am. My mind is bouncing everywhere. It's looking for something to focus on. What? What do you want me to say? I don't know how I work. What is this? Focus. Think. This is frustrating.
> 
> If I try and think about what my mind does, then it goes blank. I think as I go on. I think as I type. It's in the moment. I need a subject to focus my thoughts on or else it will end up going nowhere. I need to get into the "flow" of thought. I think that my thoughts come out when I am genuinely passionate or interested about something. I can't just spit out thoughts without specific reason. That doesn't even make sense. I guess.. I need an idea first to build my thoughts on. Vague ideas can come out of me suddenly or randomly, but I don't seem to be able to control *when* my ideas come to me. It takes time for my mind to get situated and settled down before being able to even start to describe how the mind works. It's difficult.
> 
> My mind tends to freeze from time to time. I can get into a good train of thought and then it.. goes blank. I get distracted. I don't think it's an outer-worldly distraction though. Not physical. But a mental distraction of some sort. Brain freeze. I can't do this. Yes, I can. What am I thinking? My thoughts are always in conflict with each other. What is right and what is wrong? Am I doing things right? Stressed out. Overwhelmed. I don't know. Fuck.


I tried.. and I think I failed. :bored:

Maybe I'm trying too hard that it ends up going in circles all over again. Scribble and erase. Then the eraser is one of those crappy erasers that only make pink smudges on the paper.. and everything turns out to look like a mess even though I tried my best. It looks unsatisfactory in my eyes.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> @delphi367
> 
> *thank, unthank, thanks correct post* :laughing:
> 
> ...





zazara said:


> I'll try the mind whisperer thing that @delphi367 mentioned.
> 
> Here's a look into my mind..
> 
> ...


I think you may actually be an Intuitive type. You used a lot of metaphor here, and you tend to be clumsy in real life, uncomfortable with sports... you enjoy daydreaming. All of that seems Intuitive to me. In fact, I'm almost tempted to say it sounds like dominant Intuition. Your process description sounds a lot like how I imagine an Ne dom reacting to being asked to use Ni. LOL.

I will also say that insomnia as a result of incessant mental activity and being out of sync with any kind of "body clock" seems like another Intuitive thing I've noticed a lot among other strong Ns. Also, it seems to take something big or unusual to catch your attention towards the physical world, which implies weak S again.

Would you be willing to reconsider ENFP, or is that off the table?


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## pretense (Jan 2, 2013)

What are your gut feelings? 

and this time don't castrate me for asking a question.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> I think you may actually be an Intuitive type. You used a lot of metaphor here, and you tend to be clumsy in real life, uncomfortable with sports... you enjoy daydreaming. All of that seems Intuitive to me. In fact, I'm almost tempted to say it sounds like dominant Intuition. Your process description sounds a lot like how I imagine an Ne dom reacting to being asked to use Ni. LOL.
> 
> I will also say that insomnia as a result of incessant mental activity and being out of sync with any kind of "body clock" seems like another Intuitive thing I've noticed a lot among other strong Ns. Also, it seems to take something big or unusual to catch your attention towards the physical world, which implies weak S again.
> 
> Would you be willing to reconsider ENFP, or is that off the table?


Whaaat? _That_ was intuition? I thought intuition was all insightful stuff and.. not.. that. Words don't come to me easily when I want them to. I am uncomfortable with sports.. but I think that has to do with my weak body, not my mental processes.. maybe? I don't know. Everyone daydreams. I think that maybe an introverted thing. _Dominant??_

You might be right about the insomnia thing.. I think a lot, but I can't say what I'm thinking of right off the bat. Too many things. I need to calm my mind before getting it to work with me. It's like the grumpy trashcan guy on Sesame St. Oscar? Grinch? Eh.. it's not Grinch, but same idea I guess. Doesn't want to work with me until I can stoop down to its level. Then maybe some insight can pop out of the garbage.. maybe. 

It is not off the table. It was my first "type" anyway so I'll always go back to it and consider.

I still feel like an S. It could be a phase.. or maybe my intuition is a phase.. gosh, I can't make a decision for the life of me. Get it together girl. Oh, I should also mention that I think directly to myself a lot. Kind of like speaking to myself without literally speaking. It's like I need to give myself a one-to-one pep talk or else I'll spiral into confusion and the cycle repeats itself. 

I've got a football coach in my head. 
"Focus! You throw like a girl! That's pathetic!" 
"But.. I am a girl.. "
"So what? Don't give me that attitude! You're better than that!" 
"Alright alright.." 

Okay, now I sound like a straight up crazy person. I'm normal I swear. Are you sure that's intuition? Do I have multiple personality disorder? I don't think I do but.. yeah. That's kind of getting deeper into it.. in a way.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

consciousness said:


> What are your gut feelings?
> 
> and this time don't castrate me for asking a question.


I don't know what castrate means but okay! 

I don't have a gut feeling.. nevermind, it changes all the time. I feel like a sensor. Indecisiveness hurts.


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## pretense (Jan 2, 2013)

zazara said:


> I don't know what castrate means but okay!
> 
> I don't have a gut feeling.. nevermind, it changes all the time. I feel like a sensor. Indecisiveness hurts.


Stop letting it end at "I feel." Why do you feel that way?

I get the FEELING that you're just saying you feel this way or that way because it is difficult for you to explain yourself. I get this FEELING because you have said you struggle with this in the past, and have also said that you're lazy.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

consciousness said:


> Stop letting it end at "I feel." Why do you feel that way?


It's too vague to answer completely.. that's the thing. I ask why all the time, but nothing gets far too past the original question. Why? I don't know. I say I don't know a lot, but I think I do know.. just not in a way to explain how I .. I was going to say feel.. _think_. 

I want to explore the possibility of being a sensor, and I believe I fit in.. but in the back of my head there is always doubt. There will always be doubt. That didn't really answer the question, did it?


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Whaaat? _That_ was intuition? I thought intuition was all insightful stuff and.. not.. that. Words don't come to me easily when I want them to. I am uncomfortable with sports.. but I think that has to do with my weak body, not my mental processes.. maybe? I don't know. Everyone daydreams. I think that maybe an introverted thing. _Dominant??_


A weak body might keep you from participating, but you'd still enjoy watching sports a lot. But it still doesn't explain why you don't tend to pay attention to the details of the world around you and such. I don't think everyone daydreams a lot, though. Everyone does it _sometimes,_ but they don't tend towards it. 



> You might be right about the insomnia thing.. I think a lot, but I can't say what I'm thinking of right off the bat. Too many things. I need to calm my mind before getting it to work with me. It's like the grumpy trashcan guy on Sesame St. Oscar? Grinch? Eh.. it's not Grinch, but same idea I guess. Doesn't want to work with me until I can stoop down to it's level. Then maybe some insight can pop out of the garbage.. maybe.


That entire thought process, the way you were trying to come up with a visual metaphor from popular culture to describe yourself, sounds very Ne to me.



> I still feel like an S. It could be a phase.. or maybe my intuition is a phase.. gosh, I can't make a decision for the life of me. Get it together girl. Oh, I should also mention that I think directly to myself a lot. Kind of like speaking to myself without literally speaking. It's like I need to give myself a one-to-one pep talk or else I'll spiral into confusion and the cycle repeats itself.
> 
> I've got a football coach in my head.
> "Focus! You throw like a girl! That's pathetic!"
> ...


Actually, I talk to myself in my head all the time... and I have for most of my life. I don't think you're crazy at all, but it does sound fairly Intuitive to me.

I think you might have been thrown off by some people insisting that Intuition is some kind of mystical gut feeling or something. It doesn't HAVE to be. It's just about patterns, perspectives, ideas... people make it sound like magic when it's not. 

However, the thing about phases... that could be important. You need to base your test results on how you've been for MOST of your life. Everyone goes through periods where they feel a need to focus on a non-preferred function, and have a desire to play with it, explore it, etc. In fact, I remember you posting some threads where you talked about how much you appreciated being brought down to earth by someone or other, and also where you wished you were a Sensor so that you could enjoy that aspect of life more.

It's possible that you were so emotionally moved by the beauty you'd been missing, and the feeling that you wanted to be part of it, that you became aware of how incomplete your life was, longed to be a Sensor, and convinced yourself that you actually WERE one.

Is that your real preference, or do you just crave to be more in tune with reality so badly that you WANT to believe it is, and think wanting it makes it your natural preference?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> A weak body might keep you from participating, but you'd still enjoy watching sports a lot. But it still doesn't explain why you don't tend to pay attention to the details of the world around you and such. I don't think everyone daydreams a lot, though. Everyone does it _sometimes,_ but they don't tend towards it.


How about figure skating? Does that count? I can watch that stuff for hours.. not so much basketball. 



> That entire thought process, the way you were trying to come up with a visual metaphor from popular culture to describe yourself, sounds very Ne to me.


Yeah? I try to put my thoughts into something tangible. That is intuition? 




> Actually, I talk to myself in my head all the time... and I have for most of my life. I don't think you're crazy at all, but it does sound fairly Intuitive to me.


Okay, I'm not crazy. Good. 



> I think you might have been thrown off by some people insisting that Intuition is some kind of mystical gut feeling or something. It doesn't HAVE to be. It's just about patterns, perspectives, ideas... people make it sound like magic when it's not.


It's not a mystical gut feeling? When I hear patterns, perspectives, ideas.. I'm thinking crystal ball fortune teller here. I don't know what to make of it. Sensing sounds much easier to comprehend. 



> However, the thing about phases... that could be important. You need to base your test results on how you've been for MOST of your life. Everyone goes through periods where they feel a need to focus on a non-preferred function, and have a desire to play with it, explore it, etc. In fact, I remember you posting some threads where you talked about how much you appreciated being brought down to earth by someone or other, and also where you wished you were a Sensor so that you could enjoy that aspect of life more.


That's hard to tell.. all I know is that I usually test as an INFP. But after figuring out what cognitive functions are and all that, I haven't put too much trust in tests. I can kind of see what you mean. Oh man.. you're right. I wished I was a sensor.. did my wish come true? 



> It's possible that you were so emotionally moved by the beauty you'd been missing, and the feeling that you wanted to be part of it, that you became aware of how incomplete your life was, longed to be a Sensor, and convinced yourself that you actually WERE one.


Basically, that. I think. I don't know. My mind plays tricks on me sometimes. What plays a big part is external validation. If other people go along with what I believe, then I believe it even more. It makes more sense in my mind. Have I been confusing myself into believing that I'm something I'm not? It's tough to say.. 



> Is that your real preference, or do you just crave to be more in tune with reality so badly that you WANT to believe it is, and think wanting it makes it your natural preference?


I think my first preference is being in my head. I think more than I do but I want to do more than I think.. though I think more while I'm doing something than not. I can't say for sure, but I think you may be on to something here.. 

Funny thing is I just made this thread to confirm that I was a sensor once and for all. I have a feeling my decisions might be influenced by the people who tell me how they see it. I take it seriously, and go back to reconsidering even though I didn't want to in the first place. Or I could have not wanted to, BUT I subconsciously knew that I needed to. Erase. 

Back to the drawing board.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> How about figure skating? Does that count? I can watch that stuff for hours.. not so much basketball.


Well, at that point, it depends on why you enjoy watching it. What do you think about? Are you just watching them move, noticing marks that their skates make on the ice? Or are you thinking about the larger pattern of movements and how it builds up, the training they must have gone through, the dedication, imagining what it would be like to be in their place?



> Yeah? I try to put my thoughts into something tangible. That is intuition?


That's just it, though... to you and me, that SEEMS tangible. Ideas and images are _that_ real to us. But the tangible world we're talking about with Sensing is more about details and sensory data, not metaphor. A Sensor wouldn't try to describe it by comparing it to something, they would likely just say that they "need time to process things," maybe mention that herbal tea helps them relax so that they can think. It would be matter-of-factual, metaphor wouldn't come as naturally.

That's one of the hazards of Intuition, particularly Ne. You think you're seeing reality as it is, you're so certain those patterns and ideas are out there and part of the environment, that it just seems like you're talking about something that objectively exists, that's as real as the floor or the ceiling. But it's not... it's in your mind, and you're projecting it out. 

Hearing Intuition described to yourself isn't going to seem like something you do at first, because to you it seems straightforward and obvious... not like some weird process engaging the subconscious and playing weird tricks.



> It's not a mystical gut feeling? When I hear patterns, perspectives, ideas.. I'm thinking crystal ball fortune teller here. I don't know what to make of it. Sensing sounds much easier to comprehend.


That's probably because you're aware of the fact that all information is ultimately perceived through the senses. Even in order to see patterns, we have to have sensory data from which to abstract those patterns. It's not that Intuitive types don't have to USE sensing... it's that we're focused on the patterns that data produces, and are less interested in the data itself. It's hard to explain, but all Sensing types use Intuition to flesh out the data and more thoroughly perceive reality, while all Intuitives use Sensing in order to deepen their insight and awareness of patterns. The opposite function doesn't go unused, not by any means.




> That's hard to tell.. all I know is that I usually test as an INFP. But after figuring out what cognitive functions are and all that, I haven't put too much trust in tests. I can kind of see what you mean. Oh man.. you're right. I wished I was a sensor.. did my wish come true?


That's a powerful wish. Never underestimate the power of positive thinking... 




> Basically, that. I think. I don't know. My mind plays tricks on me sometimes. What plays a big part is external validation. If other people go along with what I believe, then I believe it even more. It makes more sense in my mind. Have I been confusing myself into believing that I'm something I'm not? It's tough to say..
> 
> I think my first preference is being in my head. I think more than I do but I want to do more than I think.. though I think more while I'm doing something than not. I can't say for sure, but I think you may be on to something here..
> 
> ...


I can relate to the external validation thing. You shouldn't feel bad about being confused... honestly, a lot of people doubt that MBTI types can even be objectively assigned. We might all be chasing ghosts here, for all we know. Just don't feel like you're alone in not being certain of things, you'll never get that 100% certainty. You'll just come up with a type that explains _most _of your behavior in a general way, but which is still full of holes in light of some situations/behavioral tendencies. 

Take it from someone who has studied this stuff for 7 years... other people will NEVER stop questioning your type, and you'll never stop questioning yourself. Sooner or later, it's best to just accept that you've done your best to type yourself, and settle on what makes the most sense to you personally.


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## Anodyne (Mar 4, 2012)

Can you elaborate on the nature of your daydreaming? Do you tend to daydream more about the future or the past? 

Imagine you're a mother and your 7 year old daughter asks you what love is. How might you try to explain that to her?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Well, at that point, it depends on why you enjoy watching it. What do you think about? Are you just watching them move, noticing marks that their skates make on the ice? Or are you thinking about the larger pattern of movements and how it builds up, the training they must have gone through, the dedication, imagining what it would be like to be in their place?


Wow how pretty.. so graceful.. I wish I could do that.. so much balance and precision. It's something I could never do in a million years. they way the person moves along with the music in total harmony. I love that. It's so much different than the aggressiveness of other sports. The opposite in fact. I imagine what it would be like to be in their place. The emotions on their faces after they finish the routine. Pure beauty. 



> That's just it, though... to you and me, that SEEMS tangible. Ideas and images are _that_ real to us. But the tangible world we're talking about with Sensing is more about details and sensory data, not metaphor. A Sensor wouldn't try to describe it by comparing it to something, they would likely just say that they "need time to process things," maybe mention that herbal tea helps them relax so that they can think. It would be matter-of-factual, metaphor wouldn't come as naturally.


You're telling me Oscar isn't tangible.. ? "To us" ? What is _us_? Intuitives?  

It's hard to understand what you mean, but I get the idea. Oh, *IDEA*! I get the _idea_. I see where this is going.. slightly. 




> That's one of the hazards of Intuition, particularly Ne. You think you're seeing reality as it is, you're so certain those patterns and ideas are out there and part of the environment, that it just seems like you're talking about something that objectively exists, that's as real as the floor or the ceiling. But it's not... it's in your mind, and you're projecting it out.


I don't understand when you use words like "patterns".. patterns.. spots.. stripes. Those are patterns. That's what I mean by tangible I guess. I don't know what an intuitive pattern is. 



> Hearing Intuition described to yourself isn't going to seem like something you do at first, because to you it seems straightforward and obvious... not like some weird process engaging the subconscious and playing weird tricks.


I don't see it as obvious though.. maybe I'm misreading this.. but it _does_ seem like a weird process engaging the subconscious and playing tricks. Well it does right now that is. 




> That's probably because you're aware of the fact that all information is ultimately perceived through the senses. Even in order to see patterns, we have to have sensory data from which to abstract those patterns. It's not that Intuitive types don't have to USE sensing... it's that we're focused on the patterns that data produces, and are less interested in the data itself. It's hard to explain, but all Sensing types use Intuition to flesh out the data and more thoroughly perceive reality, while all Intuitives use Sensing in order to deepen their insight and awareness of patterns. The opposite function doesn't go unused, not by any means.


That whole paragraph flew right over my head.. I feel kind of stupid right now. Lack of sleep or lack of comprehension.. not sure. 



> I can relate to the external validation thing. You shouldn't feel bad about being confused... honestly, a lot of people doubt that MBTI types can even be objectively assigned. We might all be chasing ghosts here, for all we know. Just don't feel like you're alone in not being certain of things, you'll never get that 100% certainty. You'll just come up with a type that explains _most _of your behavior in a general way, but which is still full of holes in light of some situations/behavioral tendencies.
> 
> Take it from someone who has studied this stuff for 7 years... other people will NEVER stop questioning your type, and you'll never stop questioning yourself. Sooner or later, it's best to just accept that you've done your best to type yourself, and settle on what makes the most sense to you personally.


Ah I understand this part.. _thank you_.. I think I needed to hear this. 

That was beautiful. :crying:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Anodyne said:


> Can you elaborate on the nature of your daydreaming? Do you tend to daydream more about the future or the past?
> 
> Imagine you're a mother and your 7 year old daughter asks you what love is. How might you try to explain that to her?


The future mostly. None of them are really the same so I can't say much about the _nature_ of it all. Sometimes the dreams when I sleep are in the past.. but daydreams are in the future. They're usually silly things. Like pretending I sing before a huge audience when in actuality.. I can't sing at all. They are not realistic daydreams. I think I can connect this to the figure skating thing I wrote above. I wish I was like that skater. I'm too clumsy and unbalanced to ever be able to do it, do I dream it. I mean, if I could do something, then why would I waste my time dreaming about it rather than going out and pursuing it? I leave my dreams to the unattainable things in life.

Hm.. love is.. love. It's when you feel happy and not afraid to be yourself around someone even when you don't know why you feel that way. When you care for someone a lot. Like A LOT A LOT. So much that it might even fill a whole swimming pool! It's when you like someone as much as you like yourself.. maybe even more. :blushed:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Right, all of that points to ENFP.


Looks like I'm an N then. 

Why do you say ENFP rather than INFP?


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Looks like I'm an N then.
> 
> Why do you say ENFP rather than INFP?


This might embarrass you a bit...

But the way you keep changing your type and rely on external validation doesn't sound like dominant Fi to me. Fi dominant types are usually a bit more certain of their identity and motivations.

That probably sounds like a criticism, but I promise it isn't... I've been the same way. I suck at recognizing my own motivations, I had to analyze the heck out of myself to figure things out.


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## StunnedFox (Dec 20, 2013)

Again, I stress my experience at this sort of thing, but I definitely recognised Ne in the passage you wrote in response to my question, along with a hint of Si.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> This might embarrass you a bit...
> 
> But the way you keep changing your type and rely on external validation doesn't sound like dominant Fi to me. Fi dominant types are usually a bit more certain of their identity and motivations.
> 
> That probably sounds like a criticism, but I promise it isn't... I've been the same way. I suck at recognizing my own motivations, I had to analyze the heck out of myself to figure things out.


I'm not embarrassed. I think you're right about that actually!


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## Anodyne (Mar 4, 2012)

_Well I think my questions flopped miserably..._ but I agree with many of the other's comments. One of the first things I noticed about the way you express yourself was your natural inclination to metaphor for rationale, a hallmark of Ne users (I was trying to get at this in a way with my second question). As for Fi vs. Ne dominance, looking back I was persuaded towards the former by this tibit:

*12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
*I probably speak before thinking, but I don't exactly speak too much. Usually I keep my thoughts to myself, unless someone directly seeks me out and wants to talk to me. So, when I speak, I speak out my thoughts. One-on-one for sure. I never talk during group discussions. I hate trying to talk over someone. It's usually like a competition to see who's the loudest. Not my thing.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Anodyne said:


> _Well I think my questions flopped miserably..._ but I agree with many of the other's comments. One of the first things I noticed about the way you express yourself was your natural inclination to metaphor for rationale, a hallmark of Ne users (I was trying to get at this in a way with my second question). As for Fi vs. Ne dominance, looking back I was persuaded towards the former by this tibit:
> 
> *12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
> *I probably speak before thinking, but I don't exactly speak too much. Usually I keep my thoughts to myself, unless someone directly seeks me out and wants to talk to me. So, when I speak, I speak out my thoughts. One-on-one for sure. I never talk during group discussions. I hate trying to talk over someone. It's usually like a competition to see who's the loudest. Not my thing.


I read the question paragraph first for some reason.. and I was going to write "I agree completely!" .. then I realized oh, I said that. Still, I agree completely with my past answer! 

You could always ask some more questions if you want.. ? (I mentioned a swimming pool in the 2nd question.. that counts for something.. I guess. )

Does not speaking out too much mean I can't be an E? I feel like most of what I think isn't really useful in a group discussion so I just keep quiet. I don't have much to add in general. But it should also be taken in context that most of what I consider to be "group discussions" with family or classmates are about things I'm not that interested in anyway. 

I guess the question should be.. when do I even have the relative thoughts that I possibly speak out in a group? I like one on one because it's easy to change the subject into something that I do want to talk about. Dealing with a collective audience is another thing. I'd rather sit back during those if I'm not passionate enough about what's being said.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> *
> Does not speaking out too much mean I can't be an E?* I feel like most of what I think isn't really useful in a group discussion so I just keep quiet. I don't have much to add in general. *But it should also be taken in context that most of what I consider to be "group discussions" with family or classmates are about things I'm not that interested in anyway. *
> 
> I guess the question should be.. when do I even have the relative thoughts that I possibly speak out in a group? I like one on one because it's *easy to change the subject into something that I do want to talk about. *Dealing with a collective audience is another thing. I'd rather sit back during those if I'm not passionate enough about what's being said.


I've heard that ENxPs are some of the most "introverted extraverts," if that helps. It's partly because the majority of people aren't stimulating to their imagination. Many are obsessed with details like who wore what, or who is going out with who, etc. That kind of thing generally doesn't interest an Intuitive dominant, Extraverted or not. So they may end up preferring books, television, Internet, etc.

Even if Intuition is focused on the outside world, it hardly makes you the most Extraverted person in the world. LOL.


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## Megakill (Nov 3, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> This might embarrass you a bit...
> 
> But the way you keep changing your type and rely on external validation doesn't sound like dominant Fi to me. Fi dominant types are usually a bit more certain of their identity and motivations.
> 
> That probably sounds like a criticism, but I promise it isn't... I've been the same way. I suck at recognizing my own motivations, I had to analyze the heck out of myself to figure things out.


It took me a long time to accept enneagram 3. I didn't realize I was such a validation [email protected]#$%. But I after I realized it I kinda realized that seeking for validation never gives validation unless you move mountains. It's actually easier to get it by giving it to other people. Which blew my mind when I first discovered it.

OP I am proud of you thinking it through and really getting the most out of typing yourself. Of course at some point you will probably have to accept a fact that isn't easy after all this searching... Which is:

You are balanced.  How _boring_, right? You are either a sensor that can express herself as easily, introspect and form complex thoughts and with as much gusto as an intuitive type, or you are an intuitive that has a developed ability to be one with your existence. And therefore experience life out of your head from time to time. 

I think there is one easy way to get to the bottom of this. Define for us Se and then define for us Ne. If there are holes in your definitions we can help you fix them or better understand them. After you have a working unbiased definition that makes sense to you, just pick the one that makes the most sense to your personality. But in the end your label of ENFP or ESFP shouldn't be something you lose sleep over. It's just a preference after all.

Well you might want to check out this thread Ask an ESFP! which is a rare unicorn ESFP on the internet. It might not help but you'll probably enjoy it.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Megakill said:


> OP I am proud of you thinking it through and really getting the most out of typing yourself. Of course at some point you will probably have to accept a fact that isn't easy after all this searching... Which is:
> 
> You are balanced.  How _boring_, right? You are either a sensor that can express herself as easily, introspect and form complex thoughts and with as much gusto as an intuitive type, or you are an intuitive that has a developed ability to be one with your existence. And therefore experience life out of your head from time to time.
> 
> ...


Balanced? Is that even possible? :shocked: I mean, I've heard of ambivert.. but sentuition? intensing? That sounds amazing. 

I'll have to get back to you on those definitions. I'm horrible at defining things.. 

I definitely don't think I am an ESFP. I'm either an ENFP or ISFP and right now ENFP is making more sense. I know that sounds strange but there's some logic to it somewhere I'm sure. 

I'm only doing this for the fun of it at this point. Yes, self-discovery is very fun!

Thanks for sharing the thread! I'll be sure to check it out~


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Well I took the cognitive functions quiz.. 

Your Cognitive Functions:
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||| 8.96
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||||||||||||||| 7.17
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) |||||||||||||| 6.38
Introverted Sensation (Si) ||||||||||||| 5.77
Extroverted Thinking (Te) |||||||||||| 5.47
Introverted Thinking (Ti) ||||||| 2.69
Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||| 1.6
Extroverted Sensation (Se) |||| 1.4

Why is Se so low?! :angry:

The Ne questions are all "Do you like exploring new possibilities?" 
Of course I do! But is that really Ne? Doesn't everyone love exploring new possibilities?


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Well I took the cognitive functions quiz..
> 
> Your Cognitive Functions:
> Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||| 8.96
> ...


No, not really. A lot of people are scared of new possibilities and resist them. Many, many people out there would rather repeat a pleasurable/safe experience from the past than risk trying something new.

Se users don't exactly resist new possibilities, but they're mostly concerned with new sensations. The possibilities are an afterthought.

Ni users are interested in new possibilities also, but we're slower to investigate them... we don't trust it right away, we think of all the implications. But once we've investigated, we'll likely move forward with that new possibility, but in a structured way.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> No, not really. A lot of people are scared of new possibilities and resist them. Many, many people out there would rather repeat a pleasurable/safe experience from the past than risk trying something new.
> 
> Se users don't exactly resist new possibilities, but they're mostly concerned with new sensations. The possibilities are an afterthought.
> 
> Ni users are interested in new possibilities also, but we're slower to investigate them... we don't trust it right away, we think of all the implications. But once we've investigated, we'll likely move forward with that new possibility, but in a structured way.


Oops. I shouldn't have spoken for everyone. I don't know how people work. 

I can understand why some repeat something they're used to. 

Maybe it's the same as the saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" 

I'd rather take it apart and try to put it back together in a different way over and over again.. because why not?


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Oops. I shouldn't have spoken for everyone. I don't know how people work.
> 
> I can understand why some repeat something they're used to.
> 
> ...


And that's why you're an Ne user! xD


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> And that's why you're an Ne user! xD


Are you absolutely sure? :tongue:


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## Lemxn (Aug 17, 2013)

zazara said:


> I'd rather take it apart and try to put it back together in a different way over and over again.. because why not?


You're pooping Ne all over the forum:laughing:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Lemxn said:


> You're pooping Ne all over the forum:laughing:


How embarrassing.. :crying:


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> How embarrassing.. :crying:


Well, then... it probably wouldn't make you feel less embarrassed to hear that from an Ni perspective, Ne users seem a bit like they're running around "naked," metaphorically. xD

I mean, showing off all that creativity/quirkiness, making it obvious how many directions your mind is going in, not trying to conform or fit in. I would say of them, "wow, you seem so brave/self-confident, running around in public like that."

But it's okay, we love Ne users, and generally don't mind how strangely they act.


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## Megakill (Nov 3, 2013)

Well I saw the confusion as her wanting to experience truth (Ti). But at this point Ne seems more likely if those test results are honest. I have no reason to doubt it.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Megakill said:


> Well I saw the confusion as her wanting to experience truth (Ti). But at this point Ne seems more likely if those test results are honest. I have no reason to doubt it.


I'm starting to doubt it all over again though.. I _feel_ like a sensor. 

But everyone is seeing intuition so.. I guess I am intuitive? I can relate to both sides! :frustrating:


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

zazara said:


> I'm starting to doubt it all over again though.. I _feel_ like a sensor.
> 
> But everyone is seeing intuition so.. I guess I am intuitive? I can relate to both sides! :frustrating:


Look at the plus side: regardless of the name you give a pen, guess what it still is... roud:


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

@zazara: try this link - it helps me assume I'm likely an N, because the handwriting in the 1st example is like they're reading my mind when I write stuff.

kind of a weird concept, but I actually think that if you compare your handwriting to the examples, it might help? http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/130266-your-handwriting-reveals-all.html


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

UglierBetty said:


> @zazara: try this link - it helps me assume I'm likely an N, because the handwriting in the 1st example is like they're reading my mind when I write stuff.
> 
> kind of a weird concept, but I actually think that if you compare your handwriting to the examples, it might help? http://personalitycafe.com/infj-forum-protectors/130266-your-handwriting-reveals-all.html


That is interesting! No one example really stuck out to me, but I'll read through the whole post now. 

Hm.. what do you think?


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## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

zazara said:


> That is interesting! No one example really stuck out to me, but I'll read through the whole post now.
> 
> Hm.. what do you think?


it's hard to say, because all the examples were in cursive :/ 
which is kind of difficult to analyze, because I feel like less people use cursive these days


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

UglierBetty said:


> it's hard to say, because all the examples were in cursive :/
> which is kind of difficult to analyze, because I feel like less people use cursive these days


Yeah, I'm not so great at cursive..


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

I color coated this ~ 

*Green* = I identify with that
Blue = Somewhat
Red = I don't identify with that at all
*Bolded* = I'm not sure about that

" 
*Sensing Types**Intuitive Types*

*Face life observantly, craving enjoyment.*


*Face life expectantly*, *craving inspiration.*


Admit to consciousness every sense impression and are* intensely aware of the external environment*; they are observant at the expense of imagination.


Admit fully to consciousness only the sense impressions related to the current inspiration; they are imaginative at the expense of observation.


Are by nature pleasure lovers and consumers, loving life as it is and *having a great capacity for enjoyment;* they are in general contented.


Are by nature initiators, inventors, and promoters; having no taste for life as it is, and *small capacity for living as it is*, and small capacity for living in and enjoying the present, they are generally restless.


Desiring chiefly to possess and enjoy, and being *very observant*, they are imitative, wanting to have what other people have and to do what other people do, and are *very dependent upon their physical surroundings.*


Desiring chiefly opportunities and possibilities, and being *very imaginative, they are inventive and original, quite indifferent to what other people have and do,* and are *very independent of their physical surrounds.*


Dislike intensely any and every occupation that requires suppression of sensing, and are most reluctant to sacrifice present enjoyment to future gain or good.


Dislike intensely any and every occupation that necessitates sustained concentration on sensing, and are willing to sacrifice the present to a large extent since they neither live in it* nor particularly enjoy it.*


Prefer the art of living in the present to the satisfaction of enterprise and achievement.


*Prefer the joy of enterprise and achievement* and pay little or no attention to the art of living in the present.


Contribute to the public welfare by their support of every form of enjoyment and recreation, and every variety of comfort, luxury, and *beauty*.


Contribute to the public welfare by their *inventiveness*, initiative, enterprise, and powers of inspired leadership in every direction of human interest.


*Are always in danger of being frivolous, unless balance is attained through development of a judging process.*


*Are always in danger of being fickle, changeable, and lacking in persistence, unless balance is attained through development of a judging process.*

" 

(I never contribute to the public welfare..)

I don't know if that helps at all, but there's what I think.


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

How in tune are you with your five senses? I'm a sensor, and although this is more of a stereotype than a rule, I have excellent hand-eye coordination. I can catch, frisbees, burritos, baseballs, tennis balls, etc. whenever the occasion arises. I can even be an excellent receiver in ultimate frisbee while wearing thick winter gloves. Now this isn't to say that all sensors are ninjas nor is this to say that all intuitives are klutzes. But it's an example of how I have strong connection with my senses. 

Another example is when you're viewing anything, whether it is a movie, the natural environment, etc, what do you take in? Do you take in the hidden meanings or possible meanings or do you take in the raw details?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

@FakeLefty

I have horrible hand-eye coordination. That's similar to @Brian1 's question before. Here's what I wrote: 



> Well, I wouldn't say a total clutz but.. I always seem to trip up on something. I broke my leg a few years ago by walking down the stairs. The ones that I've been walking down everyday. I'm sure everyone slips up once in awhile though! So..
> 
> .. does that not make me a sensor at all?


As for the second question, it really depends. If I watch something pretty like ice skating, I'll think it's pretty. I wouldn't think of any underlying meaning to it right away. It's just what it is. Though I could think of meanings if I tried, but I can't say I see possible meanings _all the time_. 

I was watching the opening of the Olympics the other day, and I was just amazed at the pure beauty of it all. The the walk of nations or whatever it's called. I loved seeing the excitement on everyone's faces. I think earlier I said I don't like watching much sports.. I think I'll have to change that statement to I don't like watching much *team* sports. Looking at a single individual doing their thing is awesome. Just them in that moment, not competing against each other, but having the whole environment to themselves. Now I really want to try snowboarding someday. It looks like so much fun! 

Movies might be a different thing because usually there's an actual story you have to follow with it.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

FakeLefty said:


> I can catch, frisbees, *burritos*, baseballs, tennis balls, etc.


See? I didn't even notice that! :laughing:


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

You might not be a dominant sensor or intuitive if you feel like you can identify with some of both. 

Let's start with this: what are you certain about? Are you certain that you're a feeler?


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

@zazara What about ISFJ? I noticed you haven't talked about Fi/Te vs. Fe/Ti. That should help you decide on your type too.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> You might not be a dominant sensor or intuitive if you feel like you can identify with some of both.
> 
> Let's start with this: what are you certain about? Are you certain that you're a feeler?


I am certain I'm a xxFP.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> @zazara What about ISFJ? I noticed you haven't talked about Fi/Te vs. Fe/Ti. That should help you decide on your type too.


I am definitely sure I use Fi/Te. More sure about that than anything actually!


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

The reason why I didn't talk about my feeling and thinking functions is because I have no doubt about those at all.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

zazara said:


> I am definitely sure I use Fi/Te. More sure about that than anything actually!


Do you think Fi could be your dominant function? Do you consider yourself to be an introvert?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> Do you think Fi could be your dominant function? Do you consider yourself to be an introvert?


Yes to both. Though sometimes I feel like an extrovert. It's hard to decide on where I get my "energy" from.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

This might not be the best way of determining what function you have, but what the hell, here goes:

I think you have Ne, mainly based on the fact that lately you've been seeing all these possibilities about what type you could be. (Do I have sensing? Do I have intuition? I do things that sensors do, but I also do things that intuitives do.....what if I'm this? What if I'm that?)

Do you ever feel like you see multiple possibilities in regards to other things?

Also, intuitives aren't completely unaware of their physical surroundings. We also enjoy engaging our five senses from time to time, but sensors are much, much more aware of their senses than intuitives are.

Also, how do you feel about Si? Do you think you could have it as a tertiary (or inferior) function?


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

zazara said:


> Yes to both. Though sometimes I feel like an extrovert. It's hard to decide on where I get my "energy" from.


If you were a Fi-dom you would be a judging type though. There is a discrepancy between the dichotomies and the function hierarchy and all IPs have a dominant judging function and vice-versa for IJs. You seemed to be pretty confident on being a perceiver type and I don't have any doubts you are really... You can read more about it here: Rethinking Judging & Perceiving in IPs & IJs - Personality Junkie


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Violator Rose said:


> This might not be the best way of determining what function you have, but what the hell, here goes:
> 
> I think you have Ne, mainly based on the fact that lately you've been seeing all these possibilities about what type you could be. (Do I have sensing? Do I have intuition? I do things that sensors do, but I also do things that intuitives do.....what if I'm this? What if I'm that?)
> 
> ...


"Seeing possibilities" doesn't mean I have intuition. It just means I'm indecisive and don't know what to choose and my process of elimination takes a long time for me to contemplate each and every possibility. I don't even know if I'm "seeing" anything. The possibilities were there and practically given to me from the beginning. 

Do you have an example of seeing multiple possibilities? I'm not sure. 

I don't know about how much I engage in the 5 senses or not. I can't really measure it.

The strange thing is.. I feel like I relate more to Se than Si.


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## Violator Rose (Sep 23, 2011)

zazara said:


> The strange thing is.. I feel like I relate more to Se than Si.


How do you feel about Ne vs Ni?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

Pancreatic Pandora said:


> If you were a Fi-dom you would be a judging type though. There is a discrepancy between the dichotomies and the function hierarchy and all IPs have a dominant judging function and vice-versa for IJs. You seemed to be pretty confident on being a perceiver type and I don't have any doubts you are really... You can read more about it here: Rethinking Judging & Perceiving in IPs & IJs - Personality Junkie



But Fi-dom is INFP and ISFP.. ? You mean Ji Je Pe Pi and all that? I'll have to check that out more.. I'm not positive that I'm an Fi-dom but I'm positive that I use Fi. 




Violator Rose said:


> How do you feel about Ne vs Ni?


I _think_ I have Ne.. but I don't know for sure.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Hm..
> 
> ..but don't Se-Ni, Ni-Se, Si-Ne, and Ne-Si functions work totally differently with the switched up orders?


I wouldn't say _totally_ differently. There are similarities that can be seen regardless.

For instance, I've seen both SPs and NJs say that they aren't that interested in the past. I've seen both SJs and NPs interpret things in terms of possibilities/changes in relation to past context.

You'll mostly just see that the favored half of the perceiving function stack is seen as more positive and backed up by the less favored half. Ni backed up by Se in an NJ, for instance.

I think part of the reason you have trouble typing yourself is because you keep looking at things in terms of all these random, separate ideas and don't try to look for any deeper connections between the ideas. It seems like you aren't approaching type in a holistic way. 

You're missing the big picture, but not in the way a Sensor would. It's something I see a lot in Ne dominant types... they just get caught up in all these random ideas and can't see a deeper connection between the independent ideas they're considering.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> You're missing the big picture, but not in the way a Sensor would.


How would a sensor miss the big picture then?


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> How would a sensor miss the big picture then?


Depends on the Sensor.

An SJ might miss the big picture by trusting in their past experience. They would stick to something that had worked for them, and not recognize the limits of their own experience, or the value of the new future opportunities available to them. 

Consider, for instance, someone who spent the past 20 years as a newspaper page designer. They're offered an opportunity to learn about digital publishing rather than print publishing, and hear people saying it's the wave of the future. They turn it down, and say that newspapers have existed for hundreds of years, and there's no way they'll disappear in one lifetime. The next year, their newspaper stops printing physical newspapers, and their job is obsolete. They get laid off, and find that no one really wants/needs their skills anymore. That person missed the big picture.

An SP might miss the big picture by placing momentary pleasure over future pain. They would do whatever was expedient and handled a present situation well, offering them the best experiences in the present, but not think about whether it was the best option long-term. They might not recognize the value of wondering what their situation might be in two years. 

For instance, they might spend too much money on partying and hanging out with friends, and maybe not have enough money left to pay bills. They have to pay off all their bills for the month using a credit card, but then they're "good" for that month. They've delayed the responsibility and make minimum payments every month. This works out for a while, but then their introductory rate expires and they have to pay 30% interest every month. They quickly end up in over their heads, being expected to pay way more than the bills originally would have cost them, maybe even double/triple. Finally, they have to declare bankruptcy or call in a debt consolidator, which once again eliminates the burden. However, now they've ruined their credit. They find a great paying job and get back on their feet, they feel good, but the moment they try to buy a nice new car or a house, they get denied a loan. As a result, they have to make do with renting an apartment and buying a used car for the next few years until they can improve their credit score. They focused on whatever course maximized their spending capacity in the present, but didn't consider the future cost of their behavior. That person missed the big picture.

Note that I'm not saying all Sensors would do these things... those were just examples. LOL.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

@delphi367

I totally relate to the SP thing you describe too though. :laughing: Maybe not the partying part, but putting "momentary pleasure" over future pain. I put my interests before my priorities. I should be sleeping right now since I have a quiz tomorrow, but I choose to stay online because I find this more enjoyable than what will eventually come tomorrow. I try to keep it today for as long as I can despite the consequences of what may happen tomorrow. 

I didn't say this before because this only applies to consequences.. if I have something to look forward to, then maybe it would be different? I'm not sure.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> @delphi367
> 
> I totally relate to the SP thing you describe too though. :laughing: Maybe not the partying part, but putting "momentary pleasure" over future pain. I put my interests before my priorities. I should be sleeping right now since I have a quiz tomorrow, but I choose to stay online because I find this more enjoyable than what will eventually come tomorrow. I try to keep it today for as long as I can despite the consequences of what may happen tomorrow.
> 
> I didn't say this before because this only applies to consequences.. if I have something to look forward to, then maybe it would be different? I'm not sure.


Well, the difference is that you KNOW you're doing this, you know it will affect the future. Also, the fact that you're procrastinating in favor of this sort of activity suggests NP. 

You might procrastinate once or twice, but you know exactly what the consequences are, and will probably manage to make at least a C in your class. If you're like an ENTP I know, you might find yourself having to use energy drinks to stay awake in class, or trying to skim through a chapter before a quiz at the LAST minute... you might even get an A or B. NPs often do a lousy job planning their day out, but somehow manage to save their own ass in a desperate panic before the consequences come down on their head, because they knew the whole time those consequences were coming.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> You might procrastinate once or twice, but you know exactly what the consequences are, and will probably manage to make at least a C in your class. If you're like an ENTP I know, you might find yourself having to use energy drinks to stay awake in class, or trying to skim through a chapter before a quiz at the LAST minute... you might even get an A or B. NPs often do a lousy job planning their day out, but somehow manage to save their own ass in a desperate panic before the consequences come down on their head, because they knew the whole time those consequences were coming.


Once or twice? More like everyday. 

I'm horrible at school in general. My grades are mediocre at best. I HATE THAT. How do people manage to get A's and B's with only last minute cramming? What's up with that?! Seriously? NO, that's not me at all. I need to sit down and actually take a good amount of time to process all the information if I wanted at least a B. Things don't click right away as you might think. Bleh. Education.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Once or twice? More like everyday.
> 
> I'm horrible at school in general. My grades are mediocre at best. I HATE THAT. How do people manage to get A's and B's with only last minute cramming? What's up with that?! Seriously? NO, that's not me at all. I need to sit down and actually take a good amount of time to process all the information if I wanted at least a B. Things don't click right away as you might think. Bleh. Education.


Most of our ideas about NPs assume they're highly intelligent. If you aren't, it might be difficult for you to relate to being Intuitive because of how it's defined.

If my reasoning is correct, you may simply be an unexceptional Intuitive. I would hate for you to identify yourself as Sensing just because you aren't as intelligent as most self-identified Intuitive types. That wouldn't help the stereotypes at all.

I'm just wondering... do you think on some level, you see yourself as Sensing because you feel you have low intelligence? That does make S/N harder to determine... an intelligent person is more likely to mistype as N, and I'm now wondering if the reverse is true.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Most of our ideas about NPs assume they're highly intelligent. If you aren't, it might be difficult for you to relate to being Intuitive because of how it's defined.
> 
> If my reasoning is correct, you may simply be an unexceptional Intuitive. I would hate for you to identify yourself as Sensing just because you aren't as intelligent as most self-identified Intuitive types. That wouldn't help the stereotypes at all.
> 
> I'm just wondering... do you think on some level, you see yourself as Sensing because you feel you have low intelligence? That does make S/N harder to determine... an intelligent person is more likely to mistype as N, and I'm now wondering if the reverse is true.


What? I'm plenty intelligent! Just not by society's standards it seems.. _Unexceptional_? I refuse to describe myself as unexceptional anything. 

No way! I don't consider myself any less intelligent than anyone else. I just don't catch on as fast. The reverse? A stupid person is more likely to mistype as an S? This doesn't make any sense. 

Gosh, maybe I am stupid.

But that doesn't have anything to do with S/N whatsoever. 

I simply meant that it's hard for me to catch on to things right away.. not to be unable to _comprehend_ them.


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

That sounds logical for me. I thought I was an N, because I am good at maths, which is abstract and theoretical. It's confusing as it's more to having N, T... I still wonder, how it is. And as I read I, N, T, P are usually more intelligent (or maybe at least get better grades), I wonder how about my SF then?... I've always had great grades, could it be because it's easy for my to learn by my senses? I have sth like photographic memory, I can remember some information as a picture, as I could open my notes and read from them.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> No way! I don't consider myself any less intelligent than anyone else. I just don't catch on as fast. The reverse? A stupid person is more likely to mistype as an S? This doesn't make any sense.


It's well-accepted that the MBTI has something of a bias in favor of associating Intuition with general intelligence. Many Sensors do type as Intuitive as a result of that. That's why I was thinking that an Intuitive with learning disabilities might have the opposite issue. 


> Gosh, maybe I am stupid.
> 
> But that doesn't have anything to do with S/N whatsoever.
> 
> I simply meant that it's hard for me to catch on to things right away.. not to be unable to _comprehend_ them.


I didn't say intelligence actually was correlated with S/N... just that it's loosely implied in a lot of type descriptions which often confuses people.

Anyway, I'm just wondering... you say that you're intelligent, but not by society's standards. Could you give us an example of that? What sort of things are you good at?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

> Anyway, I'm just wondering... you say that you're intelligent, but not by society's standards. Could you give us an example of that? What sort of things are you good at?


Well.. I say that I'm intelligent because I don't like to think of myself as unintelligent. If I go through life thinking in that mentality, then I will always see myself as less than everyone else. So I am intelligent in my opinion. What I think I'm good at, the people around me can think I'm horrible at. There are no outstanding talents or skills people see in me, but I don't think about it in that way. I don't like to compare myself to others. I am good at everything that I believe I am good at.


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

Good for you. No one is the best in everything but I always feel I have to be :wink: and I'm obsessed with comparing myself, so I try not to think about it, because it makes me feel depressed. I think everyone has a talent, but not every talent is so obvious. Positive thinking is half success. I'm reading about it by the way :happy:


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## pond (Nov 8, 2013)

Hey @arkigos (does tagging even work in tapatalk?) I've just remembered that a couple days ago you liked my post about daydreaming, care to share your thoughts?

Anyway zazara, don't take this the wrong way, but I feel like you kind of don't want to be typed. You keep asking people what type they think you are but you don't really consider what they say because you want to get to it yourself. It's perfectly reasonable to want to be sure of your type, but you say that you feel like a sensor and want people to agree, and when they do you're like "nope, maybe I'm not a sensor at all". I get it, I'm still not entirely sure of my own type but the thing is you won't ever be, you just have to go with your gut feeling because you're never going to have all the traits of an intuitive or all the traits of a sensor, it's all going to mix up and confuse you forever, but I think the best thing to do right now is to base your decision on the basic traits of S or N.


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

There is a book, "Do what you are" and there are examples of S vs N. Today I've read this chapter.
There were two people working in a cosmetic company. On was N, one S. On the meeting, the vice-chairman and president told them about bad situation in the company. After meeting S person analyzed the numbers, wrote them on a paper, counted, and after that S was certain that the situation is very bad, she analyzed the facts. N person thought about how the vice-chairman and the president talked to each other, how nervous they were. And even that it wasn't mentioned, N thought that new line of cosmetics hadn't sold well.
Second situation. Car accident, two witnesses, S talked about details, what color of cars, car brand, how fast the cars were driving, the noise this accident made. N couldn't describe many details, but remembered one car brand, because he had the same in the past. He also thought about insurence, if those people have any, and why they were driving so fast.
Maybe that will bring more light into S vs N.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Well.. I say that I'm intelligent because I don't like to think of myself as unintelligent. If I go through life thinking in that mentality, then I will always see myself as less than everyone else. So I am intelligent in my opinion. What I think I'm good at, the people around me can think I'm horrible at. There are no outstanding talents or skills people see in me, but I don't think about it in that way. I don't like to compare myself to others. I am good at everything that I believe I am good at.


While I'm glad that you have good self-esteem... that answer just wasn't what I was looking for. At all. It reminds me of this joke:



> A helicopter was flying around above Seattle when an electrical malfunction disabled all of the aircraft's electronic navigation and communications equipment. Due to the clouds and haze, the pilot could not determine the helicopter's position and course to fly to the airport. The pilot saw a tall building, flew toward it, circled, drew a handwritten sign, and held it in the helicopter's window. The pilot's sign said "WHERE AM I?" in large letters. People in the tall building quickly responded to the aircraft, drew a large sign and held it in a building window. Their sign read: "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER." The pilot smiled, waved, looked at her map, determined the course to steer to SEATAC airport, and landed safely. After they were on the ground, the co-pilot asked the pilot how the "YOU ARE IN A HELICOPTER" sign helped determine their position. The pilot responded "I knew that had to be the Microsoft building because, like their technical support, online help and product documentation, the response they gave me was technically correct, but completely useless."


What you just did, is sort of like if they held up a sign that said, "IT DOESN'T MATTER, YOU SHOULD HAVE FAITH IN YOUR NAVIGATIONAL SKILLS. ^_^"

In other words, you gave me a response that morally appropriate, but completely useless. Well, it proves that you use Fi, I think... but you knew that! 

Still, I was asking that question because it might give a clue as to what your natural interests and talents are, and thus a clue to your natural preferences. It wasn't really about comparing you to others. 

Although, to be honest, if you don't want to compare yourself to others, should you really be using MBTI at all? There's at least one person that hates me for using this system because it "labels" people. Your mindset seems similar to hers.

Are you sure that you don't just resist sticking to one type because on some level, you have a moral objection to being categorized? If that's the case, perhaps you shouldn't type yourself. No one is forcing you to do this, you can still hang out here even if you just keep your type off your profile.


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

From the thread: http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/37142-you-know-youre-intuitive-when.html



Apollo Celestio said:


> *You want the glue that binds facts together... facts aren't enough.. lists aren't enough. You crave understanding.*


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Still, I was asking that question because it might give a clue as to what your natural interests and talents are, and thus a clue to your natural preferences. It wasn't really about comparing you to others.
> 
> Although, to be honest, if you don't want to compare yourself to others, should you really be using MBTI at all? There's at least one person that hates me for using this system because it "labels" people. Your mindset seems similar to hers.
> 
> Are you sure that you don't just resist sticking to one type because on some level, you have a moral objection to being categorized? If that's the case, perhaps you shouldn't type yourself. No one is forcing you to do this, you can still hang out here even if you just keep your type off your profile.


Haha okay I see what you mean now. :laughing:

I'm interested mostly in art. Anything that allows freedom of expression and creativity is something I would gravitate towards. 

I use MBTI mainly to understand myself. Plus it's just interesting in general! So what if I don't like comparing myself to people? I still find the idea of it all fascinating. I'm not concerned about the "labels".. more concerned about how I can apply myself to it. 

Yes I'm sure. I want to stick to a type.. but I simply can't make up my mind! Of course no one is forcing me. I find it more fun than frustrating. roud:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

White_dress said:


> From the thread: http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/37142-you-know-youre-intuitive-when.html


I don't think craving understanding only applies to intuitives.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

pond said:


> Anyway zazara, don't take this the wrong way, but I feel like you kind of don't want to be typed. You keep asking people what type they think you are but you don't really consider what they say because you want to get to it yourself. It's perfectly reasonable to want to be sure of your type, but you say that you feel like a sensor and want people to agree, and when they do you're like "nope, maybe I'm not a sensor at all". I get it, I'm still not entirely sure of my own type but the thing is you won't ever be, you just have to go with your gut feeling because you're never going to have all the traits of an intuitive or all the traits of a sensor, it's all going to mix up and confuse you forever, but I think the best thing to do right now is to base your decision on the basic traits of S or N.


You're right! I don't want to be typed. I want to understand what type I fit into best myself, not just to take other people's word for it. I make these threads to compare other opinions and advice to my own understanding and try to make a judgement from that. (Yes, I definitely use Fi.) I don't try to shoot other views down. I only doubt them and keep questioning it for myself. I don't fully trust my gut feelings most of the time. 

What are the basic traits again?


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Haha okay I see what you mean now. :laughing:
> 
> I'm interested mostly in art. Anything that allows freedom of expression and creativity is something I would gravitate towards.


What's your favorite type of art? What sort of things do you make?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> What's your favorite type of art? What sort of things do you make?


My favorite type of art.. I love abstract art and surrealism! Dali's works are awesome. Realistic art is great and all.. I can appreciate the skill it takes to do that.. but I find it boring to look at. Nothing interesting. Something that pops out, is different from the ordinary, and maybe a bit shocking or controversial is something I enjoy looking at more. I mean, who wants to look at a painting of a fruit basket when you already know what a fruit basket looks like? It's dull. 

What I make is more chaotic lines and movement. I don't think about what I'm trying to make as I'm drawing. I draw because it's fun and a good way to release pent up feelings. When I draw, I'm like a little kid scribbling outside the lines. 

Only after I'm done, I can start to make connections and meaning.. but in the process of doing it? Nothing. I don't even think about how it would look like. I start drawing even if I have no idea what I want to draw.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

What I find that's kind of funny is that it took no time to figure out that my enneagram was a type 4. That is me to a tee!


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> My favorite type of art.. I love abstract art and surrealism! Dali's works are awesome. Realistic art is great and all.. I can appreciate the skill it takes to do that.. but I find it boring to look at. Nothing interesting. Something that pops out, is different from the ordinary, and maybe a bit shocking or controversial is something I enjoy looking at more. I mean, who wants to look at a painting of a fruit basket when you already know what a fruit basket looks like? It's dull.
> 
> What I make is more chaotic lines and movement. I don't think about what I'm trying to make as I'm drawing. I draw because it's fun and a good way to release pent up feelings. When I draw, I'm like a little kid scribbling outside the lines.
> 
> Only after I'm done, I can start to make connections and meaning.. but in the process of doing it? Nothing. I don't even think about how it would look like. I start drawing even if I have no idea what I want to draw.


To me, that sounds like Intuition. I love abstract art and surrealism as well. It's also interesting that you are more interested in releasing a feeling and don't need a sense of order in your drawings. 

What you say about not knowing the connections/meaning in the process reminds me of something someone once said about Ne. "We don't know the weave until it appears," or something. It doesn't usually make assumptions about where it will head like Ni would.

I wouldn't say that I've provided "proof" here, but you can see how someone would interpret this in that way, right?


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> To me, that sounds like Intuition. I love abstract art and surrealism as well. It's also interesting that you are more interested in releasing a feeling and don't need a sense of order in your drawings.
> 
> What you say about not knowing the connections/meaning in the process reminds me of something someone once said about Ne. "We don't know the weave until it appears," or something. It doesn't usually make assumptions about where it will head like Ni would.
> 
> I wouldn't say that I've provided "proof" here, but you can see how someone would interpret this in that way, right?


How is that intuition? Anyone can love abstract and surrealist art. I don't seek meaning or connections in the artwork.. I don't even care about trying to understand it all that much as many seem to think. I just like how different and unusual it _looks_. Yes, realistic* looks *boring. But does that prove I don't* think *realistically? Not really. 

It can also be seen as Se. Who cares about "the weave"? Just do it because you like it! I'm not in search for anything in art. Only in knowledge. 

Sure, I can see how you would interpret it like that though.


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

But you have to "see" the art in surrealism, to understand it, even if you don't know you do, in my opinion. I don't understand it and I don't like it. I like just the beauty of the realistic art.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

White_dress said:


> But you have to "see" the art in surrealism, to understand it, even if you don't know you do, in my opinion. I don't understand it and I don't like it. I like just the beauty of the realistic art.


I disagree. You don't have to "see" it to see it. Doesn't matter if I truly understand it or not. It looks a whole lot cooler than boring old realistic art. Simple as that.

EDIT: 
Not that realistic art isn't beautiful! It's totally beautiful. I just don't find it as uh.. stimulating.


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

Maybe that's the key - what stimulates you...


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

White_dress said:


> Maybe that's the key - what stimulates you...


What about it?


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

I mean intuition and sensig have to be fed, but in a different way. Sensors needs beauty to enjoy art, that energizes them, and iNtuitives needs something they can think about? You can't spend much time on thinking about a landscape. But surrealist art gives a chance to interpret it. That's just a thought :happy: my own reasoning.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

White_dress said:


> But surrealist art gives a chance to interpret it. That's just a thought :happy: my own reasoning.


Like I said before, its not a matter of interpretation, but how it looks. 

This: 









is a whole lot more interesting than..

That: 










Why? Because it looks cooler!


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

Thinking about it made me so tired that I have to do some fitness :laughing: I hope you will find the answers. :happy:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

White_dress said:


> Thinking about it made me so tired that I have to do some fitness :laughing: I hope you will find the answers. :happy:


Haha sorry for tiring you! Thanks ~


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> How is that intuition? Anyone can love abstract and surrealist art. I don't seek meaning or connections in the artwork.. I don't even care about trying to understand it all that much as many seem to think. I just like how different and unusual it _looks_. Yes, realistic* looks *boring. But does that prove I don't* think *realistically? Not really.
> 
> It can also be seen as Se. Who cares about "the weave"? Just do it because you like it! I'm not in search for anything in art. Only in knowledge.
> 
> Sure, I can see how you would interpret it like that though.


Of course, but it does hint at what stimulates you.

Certainly, an Se user COULD like those things. I never said they couldn't, just that I think that by itself, it indicates Intuition.

Liking something because it looks different and unusual sounds more like an Ne desire for novelty than an Se desire for aesthetics. Realistic art is more aesthetically pleasing to the eye, though it is less varied. However, abstract art presents things you wouldn't see in real life.

I feel like you're just rejecting any argument presented to you, and trying to prove you can come up with a perspective from which it seems untrue. That behavior in and of itself doesn't seem typical of Sensing. 

Sensors usually trust in the benefit of other people's experience and observations, they don't stubbornly stick to their guns and invent possibilities/perspectives from which they can question/dismiss every single thing people say. xD

Let's see you get out of that one.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Of course, but it does hint at what stimulates you.
> 
> Certainly, an Se user COULD like those things. I never said they couldn't, just that I think that by itself, it indicates Intuition.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to get out of anything. :tongue:

The point is, I don't think I use Ne. 

I'm not so convinced I see intuitive patterns anymore. Liking abstract art and novelty doesn't do much to show the actual function being used. It just makes it seem like I'm the person that uses that function.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

so you like abstract art because it tends to be more colorful ? either way the picture you put up as realistic looks to have hidden meaning behind it, I'm not sure what but its different than a scenery or a lake house.
you can be a sensor as well I guess.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

crashbandicoot said:


> so you like abstract art because it tends to be more colorful ? either way the picture you put up as realistic looks to have hidden meaning behind it, I'm not sure what but its different than a scenery or a lake house.
> you can be a sensor as well I guess.


I like abstract art because it's unique from anything else. You can do whatever the heck you want and still be able to call it art. It's total freedom from tradition or rules. 

I wasn't thinking about the hidden meaning anyway. I just thought it looked boringly average and dull. 

If the scenery was something extraordinary and beautiful, sure I'd like it.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

> I wasn't thinking about the hidden meaning anyway. I just thought it looked boringly average and dull.
> 
> If the scenery was something extraordinary and beautiful, sure I'd like it.


it sounds like sensing, no ? maybe someone will notice and elaborate on it.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

crashbandicoot said:


> it sounds like sensing, no ? maybe someone will notice and elaborate on it.


It is sensing.


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

Everyone has sort of S and N but you constantly deny your N and want people to see more S in you. Isn't it true? :wink:
Ok, I'm going to sleep.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

White_dress said:


> Everyone has sort of S and N but you constantly deny your N and want people to see more S in you. Isn't it true? :wink:
> Ok, I'm going to sleep.


I think I'm just trying to make up for all the time I constantly denied my S and wanted people to see more N in me.


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## pretense (Jan 2, 2013)

What? uhhh the wonders of a child's imagination? Completely lacking in depth and originality, and aside from the pretty colours uninteresting, but not arbitrary.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

consciousness said:


> What? uhhh the wonders of a child's imagination? Completely lacking in depth and originality, and aside from the pretty colours uninteresting, but not arbitrary.


Well, I like it.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

I'm surprised that so few people see meaning in this image:










It's definitely breathtaking. The girl is sucking on a lollipop, and has no shirt on, symbolizing innocence and freedom. The entire scene is happening in the sky, which implies boundless potential and an open world unfettered by expectations or traditions. The rose losing petals on the edge of the scene hints at a sort of subtly romantic, fun, open personality (as well as the fleeting nature of innocence). The circus represents a desire to see life through the eyes of a child and enjoy a world of simple fun and amusement. Finally, the balloons represent a desire to escape from the past, from limitation... to see the world for what it is, to look down on it from above and take in the overview.

That's just my interpretation, though. Still, I'm surprised that so many people see it as superficial or having no deeper meaning. It's the very FACT that it isn't tied in with anything realistic that gives it a unique meaning.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> That's just my interpretation, though. Still, I'm surprised that so many people see it as superficial or having no deeper meaning. It's the very FACT that it isn't tied in with anything realistic that gives it a unique meaning.


That's a wonderful interpretation! I adore things that aren't tied to anything realistic.


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> That's a wonderful interpretation! I adore things that aren't tied to anything realistic.


Yeah, me too. It might be the tertiary Ni, if you're an ISFP.

Anyway, why do you keep setting your avatar as pictures of an Asian girl? Is she a favorite celebrity of yours? What does she represent to you? Interest in Asian culture, a particular style of comedy, an attitude towards life...?

I don't know much about pop culture, forgive my cluelessness about this kind of thing if she's famous.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Yeah, me too. It might be the tertiary Ni, if you're an ISFP.
> 
> Anyway, why do you keep setting your avatar as pictures of an Asian girl? Is she a favorite celebrity of yours? What does she represent to you? Interest in Asian culture, a particular style of comedy, an attitude towards life...?


Um.. because that's me. 

I'm thinking of changing my avatar to something more interesting haha but I haven't found the right picture.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Anyway, why do you keep setting your avatar as pictures of an asian girl? Is she a favorite celebrity of yours? What does she represent to you? Interest in asian culture, a particular style of comedy, an attitude towards life...?
> 
> I don't know much about pop culture, forgive my cluelessness about this kind of thing if she's famous.


LOL

ooo


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## athenian200 (Oct 13, 2008)

zazara said:


> Um.. because that's me.
> 
> I'm thinking of changing my avatar to something more interesting haha but I haven't found the right picture.


Oh!

I didn't even think of that. I see so many people putting cute Asian girls in their avatar for various reasons that I didn't even think of the possibility that it was actually you... sorry.

That's interesting that you use yourself as your avatar, though... that seems a little Se.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

delphi367 said:


> Oh!
> 
> I didn't even think of that. I see so many people putting cute Asian girls in their avatar for various reasons that I didn't even think of the possibility that it was actually you... sorry.
> 
> That's interesting that you use yourself as your avatar, though... that seems a little Se.


It's alright. I guess I'll take that as a compliment ? :laughing:

Hm.. I just think it feels more personal. Hold on, I'll change it.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

There.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

@_delphi367_ - I have a young blonde daughter whose imagination is indeed a marvelous thing, and who likes those ridiculously big lollipops and carnivals and I am sure she loves hot air balloons as well, given the opportunity to do so. 

The girl even rather looks like my daughter. Hell, it's even her 7th birthday TODAY. I am very nearly required by law to like that picture and/or find it meaningful. And, sure, I can make a bullet list of the intended or even unintended symbolism... but, meh. 

It doesn't spark my imagination. I'd find more resonance in seeing a girl at a carnival, perhaps looking up at a rollercoaster that transforms into the body of a dragon, which incorporates the structure of the rails into its scales. The girl stands, wide eyed, ice cream forgotten, rocking back on her heels. See, THAT would be a cool picture. Much better than "now, what do you think the rose represents?" Which I see as a ticking clock, each fallen petal symbolizing the moments of blossoming youth falling away. Still, that feels subjective to me. There was another thread where we discussed symbolism in art, and I expressed that Ne is less willing than Ni to find subjective symbolism compelling. I don't know if that is true, but it would make sense.

Regardless, it's fairly clear that the symbolism is what grips us, what we see primarily and as a cognitive priority. I think that Se types can and do as well, but typically not primarily and perhaps with less priority by default (ie, if it is not their specific goal).

EDIT: I also think, looking at that picture, "She's never gonna finish that lollipop. It's going to get everywhere. Also, do you know how hard it is to get carnival out of a kids hair? We'll be up all night!"

Maybe that's my Si interpretation of symbols LOL.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

Am I the only who is seeing some old sadistic serial killer couple here at first glance? 
especially, the woman gives that vibe.

lol, wait, I'm sure I've watched movies revolving around some similar story. :laughing:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

I like this picture better than the actual painting.


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## Lemxn (Aug 17, 2013)

crashbandicoot said:


> Am I the only who is seeing some old sadistic serial killer couple here at first glance?
> especially, the woman gives that vibe.
> 
> lol, wait, I'm sure I've watched movies revolving around some similar story. :laughing:


No, actually when I saw the photo I thought "Holy creepy!" I bet they hide all the bodies at the farm.


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

crashbandicoot said:


> Am I the only who is seeing some old sadistic serial killer couple here at first glance?
> especially, the woman gives that vibe.
> 
> lol, wait, I'm sure I've watched movies revolving around some similar story. :laughing:


I'm pretty sure you're not the only one.


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

^^lol, where did you find that ? :crazy:


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## zazara (Nov 28, 2013)

crashbandicoot said:


> ^^lol, where did you find that ? :crazy:


Google..


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

delphi367 said:


> I'm surprised that so few people see meaning in this image:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To me roller coaster means happiness  Maybe because I love it. So she is happy, because everything she thinks about is fun, balloons, circus, roller coaster.... It's the symbol of carefree childhood...


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

delphi367 said:


> Anyway, why do you keep setting your avatar as pictures of an Asian girl? Is she a favorite celebrity of yours? What does she represent to you? Interest in Asian culture, a particular style of comedy, an attitude towards life...?
> 
> I don't know much about pop culture, forgive my cluelessness about this kind of thing if she's famous.


:laughing: sometimes the simplest answers are the best 
I knew these were her pictures. She is very cute by the way :happy:


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## White_dress (Jan 24, 2014)

zazara said:


> I like this picture better than the actual painting.


This portret must have been made by some kind of psyhopath artist :laughing:


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