# Why are we so different?



## Ngg (Jul 22, 2010)

My INTJ colleague (and friend) from work and I have been spending most of our days hanging out, and I can't express how happy I am to have met another NT at my office. Our conversations range from Poker Theory to String Theory and make my day much more enjoyable. Most people at the office seem to be task-oriented SJ's that I can only tolerate in short doses.

We had a company social yesterday and while everyone was standing around doing small talk and socializing, we were both sitting in a corner talking about his thesis on Quantum Physics for two hours. And about how boring/uninteresting the rest of the conversations were. Don't get me wrong, they are very bright and fun people, but it seems there is an invisible wall of sorts that separates the NT minority from the rest. 

I find it discouraging that I work in a competitive IT consulting firm full of intelligent people yet I still find very little interest in most of them. I wish I wasn't so critical but I always find myself only spending time with NTs (and possibly NFs). I do have SJ friends from college (whose friendship I cherish) but those friendships arose more out of physical proximity than anything else.

Have you managed to find common ground with your SJ coworkers, beyond a pure work collaboration perspective?


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

No. I only have friends with an N, and most of them are NT. 
I only have one friend with an F, and she's an INFJ. 

I like her a lot, though I find her sentimental and/or paranoid streaks annoying. 
Most people are SF's, and I have NOTHING in common with them. I can't tolerate those idiots.


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## NeedMoreKnowledge (Nov 2, 2010)

It's all just different priorities, unfortunately ours seem to be all about learning which most other types don't seem to find fascinating outside of the odd book. I'm not other temperaments are opposed to learning or talking intellectually by any means, but it really seems to fuel us NTs and it just feels like the only real connection for friendship at least for me is with other NTs, at this point in my life. Another reason I think NTs would have a harder time relating to others in social settings is because of the very specific hobbies and interests we seem to gravitate towards that aren't necessarily great conversation fodder to the unknowing.

I feel I've generalized quite a bit here, but w/e I'm only human and I'm bound to judge others.


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## Siggy (May 25, 2009)

No, and as you alluded to, I find more common ground with the NFs

The commonality of thinking about the "what ifs" and our exploratory nature really fuels and energizes conversations.


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

Sums up my opinion of Sensors.


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## absentminded (Dec 3, 2010)

TheOpenDoor said:


> Sums up my opinion of Sensors.


Sensoritis? So...swollen sensors?


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## Transcendence (Apr 25, 2011)

You get the idea.


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## barathrum (Jun 6, 2011)

NeedMoreKnowledge said:


> Another reason I think NTs would have a harder time relating to others in social settings is because of the very specific hobbies and interests we seem to gravitate towards that aren't necessarily great conversation fodder to the unknowing.


This is accurate. 

Rest is N propaganda.


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## topgun31 (Nov 23, 2010)

I work at two locations (in the same system), and each place as a different make up. One place is dominated by SJs and some SPs, with the occasional NT (no NFs). One is dominated by a mix of NFs, NTs, and SPs...with the head doc being an ENTP. Let's just say I prefer the latter location. 

I hate to say it, but my SJ coworkers are - by far - the most annoying coworkers...especially ESFJs. Don't get me wrong, ESFJs can make great friends, but they are a disaster at work. It's like irrational feelings + micromanagement. Back to SJs, I can only stand small talk for so long (like a minute) before getting disinterested and bored. I work in the medical field, and these people are very intelligent. BUT there are different types of intelligences, and there's a big difference between being intelligent and being an intellectual. 

SPs I can definitely deal with...I have great conversations with them, especially regarding sports. It's quite thrilling to find NT coworkers...and you'll be surprised where you'll find them. We can talk about almost anything.

And one thing I discovered about SJs (specifically ESFJs): they tend to do small "favors" that they expect people to notice. If you say "thank you" or "I appreciate you for doing _____", they'll view you in a more favorable light - meaning less micromanagement and an easier day at work. It took me a LONG time to even attempt on doing this, because I hate the fact that they ASSUME people SHOULD notice. 

As far as common ground beyond the superficial (i.e. not small talk), I'd stay a small amount at best. SJs love small talk, and, frankly, I don't give a sh*t about what Kim Kardashian did last week, or lady gaga, or jersey shore, or the size of your house/mansion, or what mercedes benz you're interested in buying. I'd rather talk about something more intellectually compelling.


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## NeedMoreKnowledge (Nov 2, 2010)

precurser said:


> This is accurate.
> 
> Rest is N propaganda.


Yep, N propaganda.... Or an opinion I've formed from what I've learned from the people around me. In the end as long as two people are comfortable and like each other I don't think it really matters what you do with eachother, whether it be debating/discussing topics, partying, fencing, w/e, you will both gain enjoyment from it. But..... from what I've noticed in my friendships with various types, the people I'm most apt to feel as though they are gaining as much enjoyment out of discussing things we've learned/discovered would be the NT types. I've only been friends with 2 confirmed, compared to numerous other temperamental types, but there is definitely a difference.

In no way do I hate hanging out with other types as long as I feel they are mature and open minded, because even in experiences where I'm out of my element I still learn new things from them and process them in my own way. In the end, I can find faults in immature NTs just as I can find faults in the other types, so I don't see how I'm spreading propaganda. Anyways, if that's how you see it, that's your opinion, just wanted to make myself more clear.


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## absent air (Dec 7, 2010)

> Have you managed to find common ground with your SJ coworkers, beyond a pure work collaboration perspective?


The work collaboration is almost unbearable, let alone common ground xD


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

topgun31 said:


> I work at two locations (in the same system), and each place as a different make up. One place is dominated by SJs and some SPs, with the occasional NT (no NFs). One is dominated by a mix of NFs, NTs, and SPs...with the head doc being an ENTP. Let's just say I prefer the latter location.
> 
> I hate to say it, but my SJ coworkers are - by far - the most annoying coworkers...especially ESFJs. Don't get me wrong, ESFJs can make great friends, but they are a disaster at work. It's like irrational feelings + micromanagement. Back to SJs, I can only stand small talk for so long (like a minute) before getting disinterested and bored. I work in the medical field, and these people are very intelligent. BUT there are different types of intelligences, and there's a big difference between being intelligent and being an intellectual.
> 
> ...


Nice breakdown and very true. 

Despite being a strong INTP (meaning, there ain't no doubt in my case about any of those letters), I have a good amount of insight into ESFJ's because my mother, sister, brother-in-law and ex-wife (hello Freud!) are all ESFJ's. Yep, they view themselves as being altruistic caretakers for people around them who they care about, and to do small things is their way of showing affection. They live in the here and now and about everyday things: thinking about the next birthday they have to send cards out for, the last day the gas bill is due, who is going to win American Idol, needing to call the repair man for the garage door, etc. 

During marriage counseling which was an attempt to cure the crisis that had resulted from us drifting apart from each other over the course of years, this was touted to me as her contribution to the relationship. I responded by saying that she indeed kept the household running and was far better than me at doing that, but that I felt that these were secondary things that simply "needed to get done" and that didn't relate to how we related to and communicated with each other and the level of intimacy and trust we had, in other words the fundamental problems that we had. (You know you're fucked when you're an INTP talking about too little intimacy, communication and trust in marriage counseling, but then that's where her huge issues are.) Judging from the reaction, you'd have thought I'd whipped out a machete and decapitated her. I apparently was supposed to award a gold star for every small gesture, maybe so she could paste it on her football helmet college football style to show she was having a good season. 

So yeah, we're just different than the SJ's.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

In some respects, the work environment is more challenging because you're forced into a relationship with personality types you don't get to choose. If you think about it, most jobs cause you to spend more of your waking hours with coworkers than family during five days of the week. An not only do you have to be with them, you have to interact with and work with them. 

In my field (litigation attorney), the lawyers are almost inevitably NT's. The best litigation secretaries are SJ's, as you need someone conscientious who can work and focus on getting small tasks done and anticipate what the boss needs and wants. SJ's tend to be able to sweet talk people, which you often need to do as a legal secretary working the telephone just to get simple things figured out. Paralegals can fall into either category, and you can quickly tell which paralegals are NT's versus other types. 

The fascinating thing is when there's, for example, a stressful deadline and people are rushing around to get things done. The NT attorney is urgently pushing for tasks to get done, and done well, and doesn't want to hear about complaints or the "human element" in something, and the legal secretaries are trudging along and getting their tasks done and grumbling about the fact that "he's such a tyrant." 

It's such a great MBTI petri dish.


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## elixare (Aug 26, 2010)

> I find it discouraging that I work in a competitive IT consulting firm full of intelligent people yet I still find very little interest in most of them. I wish I wasn't so critical but I always find myself only spending time with NTs (and possibly NFs).


An IT consulting firm filled with SJs??? I figure that there should be more NTs in IT....

anyways with regards to the S hate, I understand completely....I do find the type of things that they talk about to be rather dull and a snoozefest...

nonetheless I try to reach out to the sensors as much as possible, mainly for practical reason since it's a fact that the world is filled with S's, so you need to be able to deal with them in order to become successful....

I find the easiest to reach out to be the STJs since they also have Te, so there are stuff that I can relate to them...I even had an ESTJ best friend in college (which I actually thought was ENTJ at first, but then later found out that he's an S, which completely surprised me since we got along together so well....it's a good thing that his S was auxiliary and he also had some N due to his Ne tertiary ...ESTJs can be quite abstract too...) 

Nonetheless, I wouldn't wanna live with S's under the same roof for too long....but if it's an SF chick, and she's hot, and she's submissive, then I probably won't mind....hot ISFJ/ISFP? yum...

the key to interacting with S's is that

if it's an SJ, talk about some tradition or interesting events that happened in the past 
if it's an SP, talk about sports, or your surrounding environment, or party, or some other crazy shit

of course the judging function also comes in

if it's a TJ, talk about work/career or taking over the world or something
if it's an FP, talk about the person's interests, wants, desires, the stuff that the person likes, etc
if it's an FJ, start gossipping about other people
if it's a TP, errr talk about sex


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## Istbkleta (Apr 30, 2011)

I don't know what you people are talking about.

My *personal* sample is too small but nevertheless is *my* life experience.

After learning about the MBTI I gave the test to some friends. Turns out two of my bestest friends and another OK one are *ISTP*s. I don't have that many good friends I'd give an arm and a leg for. That is too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence. I seem to like ISTPs a lot.

On the other hand, the 3 confirmed ENFPs I've had in my life have been problematic. They take everything personal, judge me and just plain don't like me for who I am. Dislike is a better word.

So again, my personal experience does not confirm your hypothesis.


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## Catenaccio (May 2, 2011)

Ngg said:


> My INTJ colleague (and friend) from work and I have been spending most of our days hanging out, and I can't express how happy I am to have met another NT at my office. Our conversations range from Poker Theory to String Theory and make my day much more enjoyable. Most people at the office seem to be task-oriented SJ's that I can only tolerate in short doses.
> 
> We had a company social yesterday and while everyone was standing around doing small talk and socializing, we were both sitting in a corner talking about his thesis on Quantum Physics for two hours. And about how boring/uninteresting the rest of the conversations were. Don't get me wrong, they are very bright and fun people, but it seems there is an invisible wall of sorts that separates the NT minority from the rest.
> 
> ...


I don't think it's an "invisible wall". I think it also depends on your aims at a particular point in life. Right now I am focused on doing a good job, progressing, and getting good things in life. So really, I find it easy to get on with people who have the same kind of aims as me, because it leads to a particular way of thinking.

In the past, yes, I would have been more into discussing theories, especially politics and history. Now, I leave that for my own reading, or forums, or for conversations with good friends. Or if I meet someone who likes those kinds of convos outside of work, all good, but I can still easily get on with those who do not. 

People who see me at work, would tell you I have little interest in discussion. this is because, at work, it's not my priority at all.

Maybe there are other N's at your work, who for particular reasons, at work, are very task-oriented.

Likewise, I have SJ friends, who went to uni, and and became very interested in discussing theory, while I, an NT, knocked them back, and wanted to get on with tasks.

So yes, we have natural preferences, but I don't believe in "invisible walls", I believe with time, we consciously set our own goals and outlook on life, and our social relationships will be defined more by this, than by MBTI type.


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## FakeBass (Jun 26, 2011)

TheOpenDoor said:


> Sums up my opinion of Sensors.


The irony is that the XNXX s more likely to get hit by a bus since he is not as aware of the surrounding as the sensor LOL


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## Ngg (Jul 22, 2010)

Istbkleta said:


> I don't know what you people are talking about.
> 
> My *personal* sample is too small but nevertheless is *my* life experience.
> 
> ...


It's not a theorem, just a *tendency*. Of course there are N's that I don't click with, and as I pointed out, I have many SP and SJ friends. My point is often our fundamental interests/predispositions in life diverge, which has been confirmed by other NT's on this forum. 
Also, IMO, ISTP are the most atypical of the S's, mainly due to dom-Ti. I have ISTP friends and generally click really well on a thought-process level. So what you said makes sense.


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## Ngg (Jul 22, 2010)

Catenaccio said:


> I don't think it's an "invisible wall". I think it also depends on your aims at a particular point in life. Right now I am focused on doing a good job, progressing, and getting good things in life. So really, I find it easy to get on with people who have the same kind of aims as me, because it leads to a particular way of thinking.
> 
> In the past, yes, I would have been more into discussing theories, especially politics and history. Now, I leave that for my own reading, or forums, or for conversations with good friends. Or if I meet someone who likes those kinds of convos outside of work, all good, but I can still easily get on with those who do not.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your insightful response.

Agreed. My point was not that NT's are not task-oriented or solely interested in discussing theory, and the opposite for SJs. And as my closing question indicates, we do find a common ground at the workplace, but I evoked the story of the company social to illustrate that this is less the case outside work due to differing predispositions. 
In the case of my INTJ colleague and I, I think a large reason that we end up discussing topics is that our day-to-day job is not very challenging/stimulating. I'm sure that when/if we move up the corporate ladder and are given more meaningful work to do, we would be much more focused on tasks at hand. What I have observed is that the NTs at my office are less likely to carry through tasks unquestioningly if they are not properly challenged.


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## Nitou (Feb 3, 2010)

TheOpenDoor said:


> No. I only have friends with an N, and most of them are NT.
> I only have one friend with an F, and she's an INFJ.
> 
> I like her a lot, though I find her sentimental and/or paranoid streaks annoying.
> Most people are SF's, and I have NOTHING in common with them. I can't tolerate those idiots.


It is one thing to discuss our differences from other people or the sense of isolation as an NT, but if you "hate sensors," it is because you are immature and bigoted. Grow up.


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## barathrum (Jun 6, 2011)

NeedMoreKnowledge said:


> Yep, N propaganda.... Or an opinion I've formed from what I've learned from the people around me. In the end as long as two people are comfortable and like each other I don't think it really matters what you do with eachother, whether it be debating/discussing topics, partying, fencing, w/e, you will both gain enjoyment from it. But..... from what I've noticed in my friendships with various types, the people I'm most apt to feel as though they are gaining as much enjoyment out of discussing things we've learned/discovered would be the NT types. I've only been friends with 2 confirmed, compared to numerous other temperamental types, but there is definitely a difference.
> 
> In no way do I hate hanging out with other types as long as I feel they are mature and open minded, because even in experiences where I'm out of my element I still learn new things from them and process them in my own way. In the end, I can find faults in immature NTs just as I can find faults in the other types, so I don't see how I'm spreading propaganda. Anyways, if that's how you see it, that's your opinion, just wanted to make myself more clear.


Somehow I didn't notice you responding to me earlier. But your first post was good (which was why I thanked and quoted). The N propaganda statement was in reference to the video. <3


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## Fat Mosquito (Jun 10, 2011)

I notice that I'm very "S" aware (ie., aware about environment via "Sensing") when I'm doing somethin' 'forbiddnen'. Shortly before, I' was going to buy some fast food for my co-worker and me. That's forbidden because a lunch time is over long time ago. I use my "Sherlock Holmes" skills to acquire some food and bypass all obstacles. That's very interesting experience. In such specific circumstances, It's seems like my Se function suddenly arise from "shadow".


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## Johnathan (Jul 2, 2011)

I find I don't hate the S-folk. Not even SFs. I just hate DEALING with them all the damn time. It's tremendously frustrating and tiresome. Having to constantly divide by zero in your brain just to have a conversation about the weather isn't a pleasant experience. It's not that they're bad people...just the wrong people. *shrug*


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## Kairos (Jul 28, 2010)

Meh, Most of my friends are ESTP or ISTP from my IT work. No one party better than S, so they are my party and going out friends. But I do agree that my 2 best friends are ENFJ, and it is with them with whom I can talk for hours, no alcohol included.


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