# What is the function...



## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Just to add to what I wrote a couple posts ago: not only does Jung conclude with a kindly reminder that his descriptions of types were purposely depicted to show the pure or extreme or caricatured; but he also says somewhere in the text that his interpretations are colored or filtered through the lens of his own psychological type. 

And this alone tells me that if we could have a couple drinks and smokes over this stuff, and I'd ask, "so Carl, what did you mean when you wrote about introverted thinking?" 

I see him taking a deep puff from his pipe and saying, "what does introverted thinking mean to you?"

And I say it means thus and such. 

"Then that's what it means. What the hell does another's interpretation have to do with how you interpret it for yourself?"

Ah, so whatever it means is whatever it means to me. Meaning itself is the least static thing in the universe? 
By golly and hold the phones, now we're getting somewhere. God I think I love absinthe.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> And you are very gracious and patient. I very much appreciate the Jung text. If I someday become better versed in this stuff, and have the chance to offer a nugget of advice to someone who might be in the questioning phase as I am now, I would suggest begin by getting to know Jung. And I would stress that he himself concludes that his descriptions are of the purest types. Caricatures. Exaggerations. Very rarely observed in real life situations. He also seems to put significantly more importance on the attitudes of Extraversion/introversion; bearing in mind almost no real person is 100%, all the time, extraverted or introverted. I also find it noteworthy that he often uses words like 'strives', as in the function _strives_ for such and such. My subjective interpretation would be something like: if the function could be imagined as one of the several personages that make up a whole person, or little vessels in service to the given individual, the function would be saying, "I'd _like_ to...." but maybe it can't fully do what it would _prefer_.
> 
> Well a little bit of local interference again swept in and demolished the thoughts I wanted to share. Timely example? Outer influences coming along to frustrate a function just when it was getting into a groove?


There is THE THING... (the point!) you just touched the thing a lot of people don't get about Jung (either they don't read it or they don't understand at all). Not only he did not invent this whole so called "theory" because he thought it was fun (no! these things were first observed and then translated the observations from reality, not to invent anything), also the purpose is not explaining how reality works and discuss if the theory is simmetrical or not, the purpose is simply helping people. He shared Kant's notion that reality can't be fully known so he saw those "pure" discriptions just as a tool to deal with the misterious reality.
But some poeple get stuck in discussions to fit reality in the theory instead of using the theory as a bridge to reality.
It just shows how misunderstood his work is


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> There is THE THING... (the point!) you just touched the thing a lot of people don't get about Jung (either they don't read it or they don't understand at all). Not only he did not invent this whole so called "theory" because he thought it was fun (no! these things were first observed and then translated the observations from reality, not to invent anything), also the purpose is not explaining how reality works and discuss if the theory is simmetrical or not, the purpose is simply helping people. He shared Kant's notion that reality can't be fully known so he saw those "pure" discriptions just as a tool to deal with the misterious reality.
> But some poeple get stuck in discussions to fit reality in the theory instead of using the theory as a bridge to reality.
> It just shows how misunderstood his work is


I do believe we are on the same page. 

Even if someone would eventually conclude they could not agree with how Jung saw what he saw, it would be hard to get around obviously self-evident nuggets like: 
extraversion is a thing and introversion is a thing. 
One looks out and one looks in. And none of us is always looking out or always looking in. 
Thinking and feeling cannot happen at the same time in the same person. 
Too much feeling drains one person while too much thinking drains another.

I'm seeing Mr. Jung reading over the translated text and giving his desk a frustrated smack, _no, that's not what i meant!_


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

final mop-up thought and I'll stop:

if I want to construct a personal understanding of jungian functions I can either trust a second or third party source; OR I can just turn to the works/words Jung wrote himself. Maybe call them Jung's Nuts & Bolts. With Jung's Nuts & Bolts, I can try to construct an idea that works for me. Maybe someone else can get something from it or maybe not. Maybe I'll never finish it. Maybe it will change countless times (no maybe about it, for it will be ever ongoing). Maybe most of Jung's Nuts & Bolts will eventually melt away. Not a big deal if they do. They are not solely Jung's Nuts & Bolts but they are the Universe's Nuts & Bolts Basic Starter Kit.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

the very real hazards when spending too much time trying to figure out cognitive functions


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

This feels like a fairly significant passage. It is in the Extraverted Thinking section but plenty of fun could probably be had by replacing the references to thinking with all the others. Could spend a day if not a week reflecting on various events over the years and look for common threads, as in did action proceed from 'intellectually considered motives' or from one of the other motives. 



> It is a fact of experience that all the basic psychological functions seldom or never have the same strength or grade of development in one and the same individual. As a rule, one or other function predominates, in both strength and development. When _supremacy_ among the psychological functions is given to thinking, i.e. when the life of an individual is mainly ruled by reflective thinking so that every important action proceeds from intellectually considered motives, or when there is at least a tendency to conform to such motives, we may fairly call this a thinking type. Such a type can be either introverted or extraverted.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

the most persistent words/concepts are presently: object, subject, and possibilities. Or just a basic return to extraversion/introversion. I do find it interesting that extraversion seems not necessarily about people but whether the libido is directed more outwardly to objects or subjectively inward. If someone is the quietest person in a room full of people, but they are continually considering or taking in, maybe trying to decide whether or where to interact.... or if outside but looking in, scanning, scoping, reading. This as opposed to being in a room full of people but practically oblivious because of absorption in a book or perhaps a single person in the room; say it's one person you find attractive to your sexual persuasion. 

There's probably a million little variables in each of the aforementioned scenarios. A million? Pfft! More like a zillion. Also, it's one thing to see and become excited about possibilities. It's yet another to be put in a position of having to choose one, and stick with it. For example, meandering along in the vast land of Psychological Types and then coming a point where there are only two roads to choose and they go in opposite directions: feeling or thinking. Maybe the entrance to each one has a placard that tells of what awaits the traveler, but that doesn't really help either because both ways are equally attractive (or equally foggy). Of course another several million-zillion little variables come cropping up (maybe less information would loosen the stress, so instead of a damned if you do and damned if you don't it becomes more like one is as good as the other). Well this could go on all damn day... 

Oh by the way: could introverted sensation be likened to sensual snapshots?


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Or maybe the mind is like an office with In-boxes and Out-boxes? Or Offices and boxes within offices and boxes? And as Guajiro has said, You are not the offices and boxes but the goal is to be able to manage all of your offices and boxes? 

Or they are like different inner crews: Thinking, Intuiting, Sensing, Feeling. Situation arises. Hit the button that summons the Emergency Thinker Squad: thinkers, we have a problem just ahead. Scramble and get out there soon as you can. No feelers this time. No matter how they try to convince you to let them come along. By the looks of the beasts fast approaching the last thing they'll understand is harmony.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

reinerwiderspruch said:


> regarding obsession on cognitive functions, I had abstract, theoretical obsessions in my mind, not bodily compulsions or obsessive-compulsive disorder. Ni usually focus to one idea or synthesis many ideas into one, so it can easily obsess with cognitive functions in order to checking whether the jungian theory works well if it is focused on MBTİ. Si also may want to do it for the sake of certainty, for less unexpected or vague behaviours. But as I understand it, Ne will not commit itself obsessively to thetheoretical descriptions like cognitive functions. I mean, after hearing about mbti, Ni may obsess about cognitive functions but Ne will look for other similar theories. I may be misinterpreting Ne and Si though...


First of all, you contributed some interesting, thought-provoking stuff here, and I dropped the ball in getting to it. But then last night and then again this morning, a few little lights flickered on, and I did a couple searches and then remembered, 'what did that guy say on my thread?'. 

So. *Taking/becoming captivated by one idea/concept/interest/object and looking at it from all sorts of perspectives, dressing it up in various outfits, putting in different scenarios, imagining different scenarios, maybe it is this, maybe it is that... and along the way part of the thinking is going, 'even if I'm not getting any real answers, it's still pretty fun to mess around with this stuff'. And this is all going on in the head - someone looking on from the outside might assume you are just sitting and doing nothing (especially if they are of a more extraverted persuasion; if they had similar ideas they would be more likely to voice them?)? And would some of the more technical jargon become mountains of clutter or like little creatures that escape their cages and the more you chase them the more of a mess you make of the facility?


If you even hear of an awards event for the slowest, densest, dumbest, son-of-a-bitch to ever walk the face of the earth, please let me know, because it's the one award I think I could walk away with pretty easily. 

*kinda like what this whole thread has been doing?


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## reinerwiderspruch (Aug 5, 2018)

SeagullStanley said:


> First of all, you contributed some interesting, thought-provoking stuff here, and I dropped the ball in getting to it. But then last night and then again this morning, a few little lights flickered on, and I did a couple searches and then remembered, 'what did that guy say on my thread?'.
> 
> So. *Taking/becoming captivated by one idea/concept/interest/object and looking at it from all sorts of perspectives, dressing it up in various outfits, putting in different scenarios, imagining different scenarios, maybe it is this, maybe it is that... and along the way part of the thinking is going, 'even if I'm not getting any real answers, it's still pretty fun to mess around with this stuff'. And this is all going on in the head - someone looking on from the outside might assume you are just sitting and doing nothing (especially if they are of a more extraverted persuasion; if they had similar ideas they would be more likely to voice them?)? And would some of the more technical jargon become mountains of clutter or like little creatures that escape their cages and the more you chase them the more of a mess you make of the facility?
> 
> ...


do you know your type? it seems you have strong Ne, and it causes your interest in cognitive functions... It could be some other function though. I am not sure... well, I thought Si or Ni would be responsible for the theory fetish, but I don't know now.


what is this thread doing? This thread looks for an answer, right? you mention you enjoy dealing with cognitive functions but also there is a function that disapproves it and sees it as a obsession. Now since I read the whole issue, it is pretty clear that your take in cognitive functions are aimless... I guess you like to play with them with your Ne, and this process lacks contribution of a judging function... Ni has similar problems too...

I mean it looks like you are skipping your judging function, it could be Fi or Ti or something else, I do not know...

I also tend to get lost in some theories and philosophies (Ni) and part of myself sees it as waste of time (Fe?).


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

reinerwiderspruch said:


> do you know your type? it seems you have strong Ne, and it causes your interest in cognitive functions... It could be some other function though. I am not sure... well, I thought Si or Ni would be responsible for the theory fetish, but I don't know now.
> 
> 
> what is this thread doing? This thread looks for an answer, right? you mention you enjoy dealing with cognitive functions but also there is a function that disapproves it and sees it as a obsession. Now since I read the whole issue, it is pretty clear that your take in cognitive functions are aimless... I guess you like to play with them with your Ne, and this process lacks contribution of a judging function... Ni has similar problems too...
> ...


Well it's kind of a mix of curiosity, playing, exploring; but it's also something of an issue, and that issue would be choosing between many interests and sticking with one or two for a long haul - for example, staying with a writing project until a full novel is completed. So there is definitely a judging function malfunction somewhere. So it is partly enjoyable play for its own sake but also partly wondering if an answer to a persistent issue might be discovered. 

Thing is, for the longest time I assumed I was an introvert, and as far as type, it was one of the IPs. But somewhere along the way I read articles and watched some videos about extraversion being not necessarily what one might think it is. It was one of those things that caused a pause and a new wonderment - to the extent of finally signing up here and tossing out a few questions.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

This thread is funny! Your observations are fun to read @SeagullStanley

I know you are enjoying the process of figuring this thing. But since you already took a test in the past. I am curious to know what will be your result on this 10min test. If you are willing to do it, please share the results when if you decide to do it:
https://personalityhacker.com/genius-personality-test/


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Maybe this will help (since the setting is right here on PerC): 

So after a many a search ended up here, I decided to go ahead and join, expecting to ask a few questions and be on my way. Well then I saw some threads that invited people to post their poetry. Well I like to write and dabble in my loose understanding of poetry. So I posted a few pieces (most of which were already written), sort of as a way to introduce myself as well as getting those first 15 posts out of the way. Then I was directed to the poetry contest and decided to participate but didn't expect to win (because I've never been much of a contest person). But I did win. Nice unexpected thrill, _until_ learning that poetry contest winners are then to decide the next theme/form, which wasn't so bad, but also to be the judge. Judging other peoples' works? Deciding on one winner? Oh baby hit the panic button. My premonitions turned out more true than I'd rather, because I thought they were all awesome. But each for different reasons. I could say "I like this one, because.... but I also like this one, because..." I was mentally composing a really nice explanation to address these conflicts, and why this and why that, but by the time the decision-deadline loomed, I was too drained to bother. And I've decided I will not participate again, just to avoid the risk of winning and then having to pick one as the winner. 

So the process would be: Observation, trying it out, deciding it to be not agreeable.... not the writing or the participation or the reading or the reviewing or maybe getting to know a few people, but being put on the spot of picking one?

Maybe it's same with choosing a function? I like them all for different reasons? Don't want any of them to feel they are not valuable? Or at least let them take turns? If only there were 7 functions....


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

@SeagullStanley
Now I will leave an observation. I see you are skeptical and you are willing to take your time finding answers until you stick with a type. As I told you before, I dont shove a type in people's faces 'cause I think it can be misleading. But after reading a lot of your posts and this thread, I think it is very obvious to anyone who reads that Ne is high up in your stack. I do think you are in the right direction with the Introverted Feeling/Thinking. Still, you are the one who knows yourself better.
I do have an intuition about you being Introvert or Extrovert but I will keep that to myself

And now, if you dont mind, I will read your poems (congrats!!!)


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> This thread is funny! Your observations are fun to read @SeagullStanley
> 
> I know you are enjoying the process of figuring this thing. But since you already took a test in the past. I am curious to know what will be your result on this 10min test. If you are willing to do it, please share the results when if you decide to do it:
> https://personalityhacker.com/genius-personality-test/


Well now maybe we're honing in on something significant. It means a lot to me that you say you find my posts funny and fun. But I can pretty much assure you that if we were in a concrete environment, such as a real room (party, dinner, meeting...) I'll be The Quiet One - the last one the others would predict as the author of these lengthy rambling posts. 

Which brings me to this Back-to-Basics question: when we converse on a forum like this, are we extraverting? Is it our minds? Is it part persona and part genuine mental processes? And is a blank space waiting to be written on considered an object?

I'll check the test later. Got a feeling I've taken it a few times. And this is another issue that sort of triggered the interest: cognitive functions tests do generally put the Ne rather high. But the Se is often not far behind. Neither T seems to rank very high (maybe it's obvious?). 

So could it be something like: a _person_ could be mistaken for an introvert because of being basically quiet and laid-back, yet that person's _mind_ might be extraverted? Is that what this stuff's all about?


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Well now maybe we're honing in on something significant. It means a lot to me that you say you find my posts funny and fun. But I can pretty much assure you that if we were in a concrete environment, such as a real room (party, dinner, meeting...) I'll be The Quiet One - the last one the others would predict as the author of these lengthy rambling posts.
> 
> Which brings me to this Back-to-Basics question: when we converse on a forum like this, are we extraverting? Is it our minds? Is it part persona and part genuine mental processes? And is a blank space waiting to be written on considered an object?
> 
> ...


Yes. Introversion and Extroversion is not determined by the person's behaviour as in "is he quiet or is he talkative? does he give long answers or he only says two words?". 

Extrov./Introv. are attitudes.

Extroverting is marked by your thoughts going away from yourself and trying to get closer and closer to the _object_. The object is the final goal, it is higher and you are trying to reach it. (in your mind)

Introverting is a moment of *Abstraction*. _(If in Extroversion you think abou the object, with Introversion you think about what you think about the object)_. The object released something inside you, and you are less interested in the object and more interested in the _thought/feeling/impression/possibility_ the object released inside you. You know it is about the object, but you are not embracing the object in your mind, you are "defensive".

Because of this, Extroverts usually relate more to the idea of Acting first and thinking later. While Introverts relate more to the idea of pondering first before they act.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> Yes. Introversion and Extroversion is not determined by the person's behaviour as in "is he quiet or is he talkative? does he give long answers or he only says two words?".
> 
> Extrov./Introv. are attitudes.
> 
> ...


Wow, this is awesome! Thank you. I love how you explain these things. I'm gonna go and chew on this one for a while.


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## reinerwiderspruch (Aug 5, 2018)




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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Okay hold the phones and tell the drum roll to stand by. 

So someone (you, me, anyone) is enjoying a casual stroll in a park. No major destination, just walking, looking, thinking... when all of a sudden, just ahead, there is a patio cafe serving cold beer. This also happens to be a day that lots of pretty young women decided to visit the park. So the someone makes the decision to go and have a beer at the patio cafe because of liking open-air patios that serve good beer and that let a dirty old gent sit and watch the young pretty women walk by. Maybe the someone has entertained ideas about writing adult-themed literature... sit and sip and get ideas, take notes, and basically take it all in. Oh but all of a sudden: at a nearby table, several people are loudly arguing about politics, and the someone hates listening to people argue about politics. Now what? A new decision? A new circumstance that requires weighing personal values? 

Or: wife says we have to go to a dinner party. Maybe I'm neutral on Party but maybe there will be two people there I really like and they really like me and maybe they almost always have plenty of pot and are generous, and I like nice people who share their pot. Oh but! There will also be two or three people I can't stand to be around and they can't stand to be around me. Now what? Weighing the prospects to determine whether the good will exceed the bad or vice-versa? 

Is this Fi? Weighing likes/dislikes in any given situation? Assesses likes/dislikes before proceeding? Is this why Fi is considered rational? Oh but what if the good and the bad are literally equal? Then the decision-making is put in a really tight spot? Start a desperate search for a tie-breaker?


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Okay hold the phones and tell the drum roll to stand by.
> 
> So someone (you, me, anyone) is enjoying a casual stroll in a park. No major destination, just walking, looking, thinking... when all of a sudden, just ahead, there is a patio cafe serving cold beer. This also happens to be a day that lots of pretty young women decided to visit the park. So the someone makes the decision to go and have a beer at the patio cafe because of liking open-air patios that serve good beer and that let a dirty old gent sit and watch the young pretty women walk by. Maybe the someone has entertained ideas about writing adult-themed literature... sit and sip and get ideas, take notes, and basically take it all in. Oh but all of a sudden: at a nearby table, several people are loudly arguing about politics, and the someone hates listening to people argue about politics. Now what? A new decision? A new circumstance that requires weighing personal values?
> 
> ...


*(explaining my own functions is always harder)*

Yes. Could be Introverted Feeling decision. If you were to decide something based on the importance (worth) you place on things, and you would Rationly be able to stand your ground and justify why you decide to go to the dinner even if those people you don't like are there. Imagine you decide to go because the people that are hosting helped you a lot in the past and you consider that showing up to this dinner showing your gratitude to those people is more important compared to the displeasing moments you will have to go through when you will have to greet the people you don't like.

Weightening rationaly wich things are more important and knowing exactly - not vaguely - why (not to meet expectations of an external ideal of "the good" but an internal search for your own intent/motivation/intention).

If Introverted Thinking is looking for what makes analytical logical sense to you, Introverted Feeling is looking for what values make sense to you... is searching for what you consider Good/Bad, Important/Unimportant, Good/Evil, Like/Dislike).

It is not enough that you know you don't like the person... you have to know exacly why and you would be abble to evaluate in your mind what the person did wrong, why, etc. And you would feel compeled to state your like/dislike for something when you are confronted with it. If for some reason you had to pretend, you could do it but you would feel sick. Even if don't state with words your disliking, you would at least decide to act in a way that makes clear that you don't like that person, deliberatly (even in the smalest details).
A compulsion to affirm what you value even against outside opinion.

For the *Fi* dominants, for example. A noticeble characteristic of them is that, for example, everybody expects them to use a specific piece of clothes because "it is good, you should do it". If they determined it is not good, they will 99% garantee say that they will not wear it. Even if everybody is trying to convince them that "it is good". They will refuse because there is a compulsion to honour a value


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> Introverting is a moment of *Abstraction*. _(If in Extroversion you think abou the object, with Introversion you think about what you think about the object)_. The object released something inside you, and you are less interested in the object and more interested in the _thought/feeling/impression/possibility_ the object released inside you. You know it is about the object, but you are not embracing the object in your mind, you are "defensive".
> 
> Because of this, Extroverts usually relate more to the idea of Acting first and thinking later. While Introverts relate more to the idea of pondering first before they act.


So the introvert (let's say the introverted feeler) automatically performs a sort of scanning or reading of the object (not necessarily a concrete object?) and judges what to do, how to react, etc, based on the results of the 'readout'? And how the readout affects the introvert? Say presently (on a scale of 1 to 10) such & such situation is sitting pretty around 9. Oh but here comes a new element that is not so agreeable, so it's starting to drop, and the not-agreeable is starting to rise, 3, 4, 5.... now they are half/half. N or S better observe something more agreeable and fast, or else... 

Question: Introverted Thinking process would be the same, except, the basis for the next decision would be determined by _______? 
Some kind of logical consistency? Whatever that means?


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> So the introvert (let's say the introverted feeler) automatically performs a sort of scanning or reading of the object (not necessarily a concrete object?) and judges what to do, how to react, etc, based on the results of the 'readout'? And how the readout affects the introvert? Say presently (on a scale of 1 to 10) such & such situation is sitting pretty around 9. Oh but here comes a new element that is not so agreeable, so it's starting to drop, and the not-agreeable is starting to rise, 3, 4, 5.... now they are half/half. N or S better observe something more agreeable and fast, or else...
> 
> Question: Introverted Thinking process would be the same, except, the basis for the next decision would be determined by _______?
> Some kind of logical consistency? Whatever that means?


(These are the hardest functions to explain for me, even more than the famous Ni)

Yes. Introverted Feeling (specially in the dominant position) makes the person always aware of what (and how much) they _aproove/disaproove, like/despise_ something.
And from what I understand, Introverted Thinking is a more "cold" process but with what makes sense when it comes to information/data.

I consider both kind of analytical. Both are very meticulous. Even more so in the dominant position, because they are Introverted decisions, evaluations, other people are usualy not aware of them. Making them more noticeable when the person decides to comunicate that they don't agree with something. Because that is when the process gives you a compulsion. (I know this is the case of introverted Feeling... but I think it is the same for *Ti*).


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

@SeagullStanley keep in mind that Feeling functions are *not* about emotions. But Rational functions. When Jung talks about emotions he calls it *affect*.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> *(explaining my own functions is always harder)*
> 
> Yes. Could be Introverted Feeling decision. If you were to decide something based on the importance (worth) you place on things, and you would Rationly be able to stand your ground and justify why you decide to go to the dinner even if those people you don't like are there. Imagine you decide to go because the people that are hosting helped you a lot in the past and you consider that showing up to this dinner showing your gratitude to those people is more important compared to the displeasing moments you will have to go through when you will have to greet the people you don't like.
> 
> ...


You posted this while I was working on mine. Making note of this one and going to go and consider it.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> You posted this while I was working on mine. Making note of this one and going to go and consider it.


Sorry, I was not abble to understand what you said. Can you explain?


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> Sorry, I was not abble to understand what you said. Can you explain?


Just that while I was composing my post I noticed you'd already addressed some of what I wanted to ask. You're probably about 3 or 4 questions ahead of me. 

About the Fi/Ti.... they seem to be notorious for causing chin-scratchings and wrinkled brows. Getting better clarity would mean a gigantic leap forward. Maybe someone with a stronger T wouldn't have this problem? Maybe that's a glaring clue?


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Just that while I was composing my post I noticed you'd already addressed some of what I wanted to ask. You're probably about 3 or 4 questions ahead of me.
> 
> About the Fi/Ti.... they seem to be notorious for causing chin-scratchings and wrinkled brows. Getting better clarity would mean a gigantic leap forward. Maybe someone with a stronger T wouldn't have this problem? Maybe that's a glaring clue?


Let me see if I understood you. I am not english so somethings escape my understanding. Someone with stronger T wouldn't have wich problem?


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> (These are the hardest functions to explain for me, even more than the famous Ni)
> 
> Yes. Introverted Feeling (specially in the dominant position) makes the person always aware of what (and how much) they _aproove/disaproove, like/despise_ something.
> And from what I understand, Introverted Thinking is a more "cold" process but with what makes sense when it comes to information/data.
> ...


Wow it's a tough choice, but if I had to choose... probably go with Feeling.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Wow it's a tough choice, but if I had to choose... probably go with Feeling.


Hmm... so that would make you an INFP?

May I ask why Fi and not Ti?


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> Hmm... so that would make you an INFP?
> 
> May I ask why Fi and not Ti?


Well it is certainly not 100% certain. 
I could still be misunderstanding the differences. 

How would you describe inferior Te and Fe?


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

reinerwiderspruch said:


>


Sweet!


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

My poor head is full of cognitive cobwebs. 
Maybe step away, let the processors process today's massive mountains of info.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Well it is certainly not 100% certain.
> I could still be misunderstanding the differences.
> 
> How would you describe inferior Te and Fe?


 yes, I can try to describe the inferior manifestation of the inferior in both types. The inferior function is a more delicate subject. So I if I find time tomorrow I will write about it to you tomorrow. It's late now here in Portugal. For you to understand how I see the inferior function please look into the ENFP subforum for a thread called "ENFP (MENTAL) Si & Projection" and read one of my big posts as an answer to a member called Llyralen, where I talk about the unconscious. My inferior function is very hard to talk about for me but I think I could talk about others with nore ease. If you read that post you will better understand where I am coming from regarding my interpretation of what Jung meant and better understand whatever I will write tomorrow. 
Congrats for the poems! I only understood one but it was very cool


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> This thread is funny! Your observations are fun to read @SeagullStanley
> 
> I know you are enjoying the process of figuring this thing. But since you already took a test in the past. I am curious to know what will be your result on this 10min test. If you are willing to do it, please share the results when if you decide to do it:
> https://personalityhacker.com/genius-personality-test/


Took the test, got INFP

but honestly, some of the questions could've gone either way - a few went fast and were so easy they made me laugh, but others... could've almost flipped a coin. Especially (surprise surprise) the ones about decisions and values and such -- also the ones about planning and preparedness, completing projects or starting projects.

Especially the completing or starting projects. This has been the lifelong bane. 

I DO START many a project as well as the big dreams to go with them (mostly in the realm of literature). I would LIKE to finish projects. But it's hell to do so. Writing a whole book is so attractive, exciting... but oh so fucking hard. 

Well let me go and read it. Try to not be too nitpicky critical.


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

SeagullStanley said:


> What would be the cognitive function responsible for trying to escape obsessing about cognitive functions?
> Would this be what they call a loop or a grip?


Is this a joke?


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> yes, I can try to describe the inferior manifestation of the inferior in both types. The inferior function is a more delicate subject. So I if I find time tomorrow I will write about it to you tomorrow. It's late now here in Portugal. For you to understand how I see the inferior function please look into the ENFP subforum for a thread called "ENFP (MENTAL) Si & Projection" and read one of my big posts as an answer to a member called Llyralen, where I talk about the unconscious. My inferior function is very hard to talk about for me but I think I could talk about others with nore ease. If you read that post you will better understand where I am coming from regarding my interpretation of what Jung meant and better understand whatever I will write tomorrow.
> Congrats for the poems! I only understood one but it was very cool


Wow, there's a lot to catch up on since just yesterday. First of all, I've lately gotten a clearer understanding of Ti and feel pretty confident in seeing why it belongs in the demon role. 

Secondly, what stood out the most from that thread was what you think when you look at your camera. Because it reminded me of what I think when I look at my camera, which runs along the theme of: so what happened to all those pictures you were going to take? What about all those postcards and greeting cards you were going to create? What about all those ideas of learning photo manipulation? Oh and what about those old Minolta film cameras? How many years has it been....? 


So this morning I decided the inferior was down to Si or Te. If I understand them, they could both be inferior function contenders. But I found a thread started by someone asking about the differences (surprise surprise, asked by a self-identified INFP and asking in a similar way as I might ask), and there's a guy who goes by Stevester, and his explanations sounded pretty solid, and if I go by what he said, I gotta give the edge to Te as the inferior. 

So to answer your previous question of Why, it is only because there is no other alternative. 

What throws me off the most when I read descriptions is the thing about causes and crusades. Unless.... could it be something like: I think too many people take too many things way too seriously, therefore I must take up the cause to help people lighten up? Even if a majority don't understand? 

Fi = one's individual conscience? 

My conscience is my guide? Its resemblance or difference from other consciences, be it collective or another individual's is irrelevant?

However I will say this: Even if a lot of the descriptions read sort of sappy and serious, the Authenticity.... that's pretty spot on, and really, there's no other alternative.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Wow, there's a lot to catch up on since just yesterday. First of all, I've lately gotten a clearer understanding of Ti and feel pretty confident in seeing why it belongs in the demon role.
> 
> Secondly, what stood out the most from that thread was what you think when you look at your camera. Because it reminded me of what I think when I look at my camera, which runs along the theme of: so what happened to all those pictures you were going to take? What about all those postcards and greeting cards you were going to create? What about all those ideas of learning photo manipulation? Oh and what about those old Minolta film cameras? How many years has it been....?
> 
> ...


:beguiled::sun-smiley::fat::fat::fat:erc3::biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new:

Sorry! I did not find the time to writte about inferior to you. I caught a thread about a cause of mine and only could write about that. I see you done progress!

I have to admit... your first posts were very Thinker and you mentioned the previous INTP result. But as the conversation progressed, you started revealing more and more (to my eyes) a feeling nature.
I like to warn INFPs to not let some stupid discriptions make them belive they live in a phantasy world and they can't be realistic. (Although I think PersonalityHacker is the best website about functions and types. And not everything applies to everyone, but there are also things about my type that only later I realized were true but I was not aware of).
Yes!! The "cause" is whatever the Fi person feels is dear to their heart and is something we take very seriously (not only one cause). Even if what we take seriouslly is that life shouldn't be so serious! There is a lot of room to what the causes are. What makes it an Fi issue and not Ti is that it is personal! It's like we are honouring something. Ti is impartial we feel like we are defending something we stand for, like it is our honour on the line.
I think the concept of honouring something is what better describes the "cause".

When frustrated Ti will identify more with = "People are so dumb and sensitive!"; Fi will identify more with = "People are so fake, inauthentic, dishonest!"


I have a little issue with saying Fi is individual consciousness because it makes it sound like other types don't have consciousness lol but I understand why people say that. It's because Fe usualy is responsable for maintaining people in a good mood. And Fi is usualy the guy that has the courage to say "STOP!" when everyone is happy but doing something stupid from an ethical viewpoint. Do you relate to this?

I could help you more distinguishing INTP from INFP but the problem is I don't know any confirmed INTP in my life. I only know ISTP and ENTP (is also Ti)

Here is my INFP ultimate test (from my observations of the ones I know). Do you consider yourself a person that lets pride go too far sometimes? Feeling like once you made a decision you can't go back. *Specialy* when it comes to *people*?


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> :beguiled::sun-smiley::fat::fat::fat:erc3::biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new:
> 
> Sorry! I did not find the time to writte about inferior to you. I caught a thread about a cause of mine and only could write about that. I see you done progress!
> 
> ...


Hmm, let me go and reflect on this. I wonder if it would make any difference to offer the reminder that I am an older person (late 50s) and have been through quite a lot of different experiences and scenes and situations and places. That's partly why some of those test questions were really 50-50 or 49-51. I could remember times and places where one was true as the other. 

Let me go try to remember a few times I got really pissed off and how I responded... and why.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Hmm, let me go and reflect on this. I wonder if it would make any difference to offer the reminder that I am an older person (late 50s) and have been through quite a lot of different experiences and scenes and situations and places. That's partly why some of those test questions were really 50-50 or 49-51. I could remember times and places where one was true as the other.
> 
> Let me go try to remember a few times I got really pissed off and how I responded... and why.


Right. I have no idea what it is like to analyze the double of what I lived. This is an observation I did about the 3 close INFPs in my life. They are younger then you and could be coincidence, but I think it is an INFP thing. At least a struggle for younger ones.
I imagine Ti dominants have more an Intelectual pride. A firmness with some kind of theory. The NF mind is very much arround human relations


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> Right. I have no idea what it is like to analyze the double of what I lived. This is an observation I did about the 3 close INFPs in my life. They are younger then you and could be coincidence, but I think it is an INFP thing. At least a struggle for younger ones.
> I imagine Ti dominants have more an Intelectual pride. A firmness with some kind of theory. The NF mind is very much arround human relations


you mean their struggle is figuring out whether they lean more Fi or Ti?

I can say I'd be far less interested in debating someone for whatever position they might take, and more interested in the series of life events that brought them to see things the way they see/live the life they live. I would only ask for the same courtesy in return. I've also been less inclined to have a firm pride in an intellectual theory and more so to pursue what some have called unrealistic dreams. Then again there might've been some fuzzy subjective logic that preceded some of those pursuits (being a musician, for example, but I'd rather not get into too many personal details here).


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> you mean their struggle is figuring out whether they lean more Fi or Ti?
> 
> I can say I'd be far less interested in debating someone for whatever position they might take, and more interested in the series of life events that brought them to see things the way they see/live the life they live. I would only ask for the same courtesy in return. I've also been less inclined to have a firm pride in an intellectual theory and more so to pursue what some have called unrealistic dreams. Then again there might've been some fuzzy subjective logic that preceded some of those pursuits (being a musician, for example, but I'd rather not get into too many personal details here).


No, I was referring to INFPs struggling sometimes with pride (sometimes when it comes to their decisions: that is what makes them abble to state their opinions when everyone disagrees with them… at the same time they sometimes can be hard on themselves with their pride).

From what I can tell xNFPs are the types most interested in life philosophies, personal stories, what is unique about someone, what they consider important and why.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

My type is ENFP, I use the same functions the INFP does but the *Fi* is auxiliary and *Ne* is dominant. Like I told you, I don't know INTPs but my closest friend for 12 years is confirmed ENTP (the same story, auxiliary *Ti* and dominant *Ne*.

I wrote a text with clues about distinguishing ENTP from ENFP based on what I noticed on our differences. I belive the introverted versions of these types are not as argumentative when it comes to debate, but are more firm with their opinions.

https://www.personalitycafe.com/enfp-forum-inspirers/1281359-where-can-i-see-fi-te-compared-against-ti-fe-enfp-vs-entp-3.html#post42515581

I also wrote this at the time and I maintain this view:


> I will also add one difference I think distinguishes the Fi/Te & Ti/Fe axes in a discussion/argument.
> 
> If the Fi>Te person tells you something and you say you think what they are saying is wrong: their instant thought is probably "Are you calling me liar? Are you saying I want to trick you?!" »»»» Because, the subjectivity of what the person says is attached to their morality, not to the "Thoughts".
> 
> ...


[HR][/HR]

Keep in mind that the translation of the word Jung used in German to the Feeling function, is not exactly "Feeling". It is hard to explain how it is Feeling without being about emotions. But it is more related to the heart then to the head, but it's about emotions. I think even in my language wich comes from Latin the word "Feeling" doesn't mean exactly the same as "Feeling" in english.
However, the *Fe* function, is more related to emotions, but it is not your emotions, it is the emotions of others (the visible emotions). That is because in order to make their decisions about what they should do, they need to keep track of what others need... and that is very noticeable if they pay attention to how other people react with their emotions.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> My type is ENFP, I use the same functions the INFP does but the *Fi* is auxiliary and *Ne* is dominant. Like I told you, I don't know INTPs but my closest friend for 12 years is confirmed ENTP (the same story, auxiliary *Ti* and dominant *Ne*.
> 
> I wrote a text with clues about distinguishing ENTP from ENFP based on what I noticed on our differences. I belive the introverted versions of these types are not as argumentative when it comes to debate, but are more firm with their opinions.
> 
> ...


Excellent explanation. Unfortunately, I have to take a half-century survey to look for a theme that might be most consistent with one or the other. 

The one that probably stands out the most would go something like: What do I want? What is stopping me? What are the obstacles? How many? How risky? Is it worth the risk? And here is where it might get tricky: the obstacles could be/have been: moral, tangible, logistical, logical.... anything. The point would be the weighing of the wants, wishes, interests against the obstacles, risks, odds, and determine how _possible_ it appears or is. Suppose the desire comes out greater than the obstacles. Next questions would be how to get around, over, through, those perceived obstacles. The desires could be trivial or grandiose. The obstacles could be a few pesky flies or a literal ocean. 

I'd also have to say that in younger years of yore I'd be more likely to throw caution to the wind in pursuit of a 'big dream'; deal with obstacles as they come, while these days I've chilled down quite considerably. Also, an obstacle could very well be oneself. The decision to proceed could be nothing more than to see about beating the odds. 

Now to get to the happy ending: suppose there is something that presents high degrees of interest/intrigue/attraction, but there is zero or nearly zero chance I will ever be able know or experience it... ah, there is this wonderful world they call Literature. There is this amazing identity one can assume known as Author (and can even adopt a pseudonym), which opens the doors into worlds real or impossible, to be anything, anyone, and anything can happen to anyone, and the only limitation is the imagination. The primary obstacle then becomes oneself in actually getting to work in writing the damn things. Or in my case, finishing them.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Excellent explanation. Unfortunately, I have to take a half-century survey to look for a theme that might be most consistent with one or the other.
> 
> The one that probably stands out the most would go something like: What do I want? What is stopping me? What are the obstacles? How many? How risky? Is it worth the risk? And here is where it might get tricky: the obstacles could be/have been: moral, tangible, logistical, logical.... anything. The point would be the weighing of the wants, wishes, interests against the obstacles, risks, odds, and determine how _possible_ it appears or is. Suppose the desire comes out greater than the obstacles. Next questions would be how to get around, over, through, those perceived obstacles. The desires could be trivial or grandiose. The obstacles could be a few pesky flies or a literal ocean.
> 
> ...


I uderstand what you are saying. I don't want to sound like I am forcing you to listen to this.
But I really think you would get much more clarity if you found some quiet time to listen to this and see how much you relate to one of these
I really don't feel confortable telling you who you are, what type you are, etc.






INTP: https://personalityhacker.com/podcast-episode-0085-intp-personality-type-advice/


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Guajiro said:


> I uderstand what you are saying. I don't want to sound like I am forcing you to listen to this.
> But I really think you would get much more clarity if you found some quiet time to listen to this and see how much you relate to one of these
> I really don't feel confortable telling you who you are, what type you are, etc.
> 
> ...


Okay, I'm two and a half minutes in and must stop to say what I was thinking to say anyway. Because they use the word 'misunderstood'. What they mean by 'misunderstood'? 

Long ago I spent a chapter of life as a street musician, wanting people to listen to my original songs (that was the path I'd chosen in those days), but ended up having a hell of a time getting people to understand that I was not out there as a panhandler or seeking pity or sympathy. Anytime someone dropped off some money without stopping to listen to a song, I would chase them down and insist they take their money back. 

Okay back to Joel & Antonia, who do sound like nice people.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

okay after twenty minutes into the intp... it's looking like it might take the lead over the infp.

In all due respect to the hosts, however, I like my model better than their car/driver model. 

I will also confess that when I read Jung's descriptions, the introverted thinking had me laughing the hardest.

The part of the podcast that starts to lose me is the destroying of other peoples' belief systems, etc. Because I have enough of a problem just figuring out what I think/believe - about anything. Although: I think it's pretty clear that among the chief motivations for this very thread is just trying to come to some consensus about the meanings of the cognitive functions. 

Well let's see what else they have to say. Maybe they will further clarify what they mean by destruction.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Okay, if I had to choose between the two, I'd have to say that the intp podcast produced more moments of 'oh shit I've been discovered'. 
When I've browsed subforums around here and came to the intp I was impressed/intimidated at how they tend to use thorough yet succinct language; they are a lot smarter and confident in debate than I could ever hope to be; however I didn't care for the porn. Another little something: somewhere else I read some 'reworded' Jungian descriptions, and the first thing about Introverted Thinking was something like 'inner play of ideas' and a little voice on my shoulder said, "STOP!" that's enough. Then went to the Extraverted Intuition and being present where there are possibilities, and again, the voice says, "STOP!" So then I did a quick modification with the two pieces 'inner play of ideas' and 'presence where possibilities exist' and made them add up to: Playing with Ideas and if we can say, 'Playing with Ideas just for the sake of Playing with Ideas', well hell, that would be my middle name. You know, come to think of it, I believe that was a large motivation for starting this particular thread and meant to mop up a few stray uncertainties. Well let me go and... uh... think about it. Think about what is really meant by 'systems'.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

SeagullStanley said:


> Okay, if I had to choose between the two, I'd have to say that the intp podcast produced more moments of 'oh shit I've been discovered'.
> When I've browsed subforums around here and came to the intp I was impressed/intimidated at how they tend to use thorough yet succinct language; they are a lot smarter and confident in debate than I could ever hope to be; however I didn't care for the porn. Another little something: somewhere else I read some 'reworded' Jungian descriptions, and the first thing about Introverted Thinking was something like 'inner play of ideas' and a little voice on my shoulder said, "STOP!" that's enough. Then went to the Extraverted Intuition and being present where there are possibilities, and again, the voice says, "STOP!" So then I did a quick modification with the two pieces 'inner play of ideas' and 'presence where possibilities exist' and made them add up to: Playing with Ideas and if we can say, 'Playing with Ideas just for the sake of Playing with Ideas', well hell, that would be my middle name. You know, come to think of it, I believe that was a large motivation for starting this particular thread and meant to mop up a few stray uncertainties. Well let me go and... uh... think about it. Think about what is really meant by 'systems'.


Hahaha I thought you were either an INFP that cant identify with a type because he was feeling like this make him feel like a robot, or you were an INTP who eas trying to formulate his own conceptualization of the functions. You know... I read that as we go through lifw we start appretiating more our inferior function, specialy at your age. So it makes sense that you would feel more balanced or if you are accepting more your feeling function instead hating it. (Or the thinking function if you are infp). But yeah, I think our inner voice knows when we find our type.

When you feel ready perhaps you can show your model xD


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

RGB said:


> Is this a joke?


It made me laugh a little too, but I think it was serious. I think the cognitive functions were really intriguing his head because he is trying to figure out if he is INFP or INTP. Cognitive functions sometimes can make people two self aware too, when thinking about it too much.

I am an ENFP and I am trying to give my best explaining the differences between Fi and Ti, specialy giving my contribution as someone who uses Fi. But I have days I think I understand what *Ti* is about and other when it really intrigues me. Do you want to leave your contribution of what it is like having *Ti* as a dominant function? 

The person lived almost twice my age, understandably it makes it harder to look back at life and see the pattern


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

Guajiro said:


> It made me laugh a little too, but I think it was serious. I think the cognitive functions were really intriguing his head because he is trying to figure out if he is INFP or INTP. Cognitive functions sometimes can make people two self aware too, when thinking about it too much.


I was genuinely wondering if it was a joke, or perhaps just expression of mental exasperation, because that's not Cognitive Function related or MBTI related. It's just getting excessively caught up in typology while deviating from baseline definitions to the point of confusion. Not everything is correlated with functions, etc.


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## Guajiro (Nov 16, 2017)

RGB said:


> I was genuinely wondering if it was a joke because that's not Cognitive Function related or MBTI related. It's just getting caught up in typology while deviating from baseline definitions to the point of confusion.


Yes, I know. That is why I told him that the "thing" that tries to escape an obsession was himself. I think it was a way for him to express his frustration, at the same time asking help with typing and telling a joke.
I stuggle with lack of experience and lack of precision explaining Ti. Can you please give a few clues about specific things that INTPs usualy relate, to see if he identifies? If you don't mind, of course


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

The curiosity is very real and very high, the level of importance is on the low end, the seriousness is middle-of-the-road, and the introductory wording could've been better (as is true with all things I try to word). Part of the initial purpose was to try and extract the core definitions from everything else. As we went along, well, a few deviations happened, and presently it seems the entertainment factor has taken a significant lead. Oh and a general skepticism about the whole thing continues to linger in the shadows. What is more true is my appreciation of Guajiro's oceanic patience and intentions, as he could certainly find many other ways to spend his time than to try and get the jungian definitions through this old thick head.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Maybe a recap is in order. 

Long, long, ago, when this wondrous gift from the universe appeared, which we know as Internet, and while many were kept in the antiquated chains of dial-up, I discovered that one could find out all about oneself courtesy of free personality tests. I had very little knowledge of this they call mbti (though I seem to recall reading Jung's 'Types' a few years before but couldn't remember much of it as it had been a library book that had to be eventually returned). I honestly don't recall what it came back with but I'd feel okay betting twenty bucks that it was INTP. Mind you, I had no idea what INTP meant. So I went on to read what it would say about me and by the time I finished, I was even more quizzical than before. Some parts of the descriptions I recognized and others bore no resemblance at all to what I knew of myself. 

From that point, I mostly forgot about the whole thing, but curiosity would sneak around now and then and I'd try a few more tests, and they almost always came back as an IP, usually INTP/INFP. I'd spend a week or so looking into it, and then forget it. Repeat, repeat, repeat....

Until about a month ago. I decided to try and really understand the functions. So many searches ended up here at PerC I went ahead and took the plunge of becoming a member. 

My initial intention was to toss out a few questions for clarity's sake and then be on my merry way. Somehow I ended up a trapped in this thread but don't really mind as the experience has been most enjoyable; practically to the point that a dominant function identification isn't all that important, though sometimes it's like following a trail of breadcrumbs that ends up lost in a dark forest, far from the cozy homey cottage.


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## Lunacik (Apr 19, 2014)

Guajiro said:


> Yes, I know. That is why I told him that the "thing" that tries to escape an obsession was himself. I think it was a way for him to express his frustration, at the same time asking help with typing and telling a joke.
> I stuggle with lack of experience and lack of precision explaining Ti. Can you please give a few clues about specific things that INTPs usualy relate, to see if he identifies? If you don't mind, of course


There's a link to resources and definitions by Carl Jung, Myers and Briggs, and Dr. A.J. Drenth in my signature.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Looks like it's back to infp.

That part about the emotional investment in love objects, which can be anything, pretty much seals the deal. Especially if a love object can be considered an interest or a dream, and the love can be so deep and sure that a million years of worldly wisdom cannot stop it or kill it. Maybe the little complications come along when a new love interest waltzes in, and at first it's no big deal because it's just one more. But as time goes by, here comes another, just one more, and then another, just one more. Along comes a mad infatuation with 'study of cognitive functions'.... keep saying, 'it's just a fling, it's just a fling', when all of a sudden a month has gone by. And a long, forlorn, sigh of despair sings from the Isle of Unfinished Tales. So maybe the time has come to bid farewell to cognitive functions. And resist the tempting idea of wondering if it is too late to learn hentai art.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Sometimes it does help to hop on a budget time machine. 
I've not yet read a description that better summarized my life than this that was posted way back in the year 2000: 
Excellent INFP profile

On the one hand, had I discovered/read this long ago, I'd not felt compelled to start threads like this; had I read this when I was, say, 30, I'd felt no compulsion to wonder about an alternative explanation; and I'd wager a Benjamin Franklin (if I had a Benjamin Franklin to wager) that had someone who knew me when I was in my twenties/thirties read this they would emphatically concur that it was an apt enough sketch so as to not wonder about seeking verification. It is the one that reads most true no matter what age I insert. 

On the other hand, it's been some incredible fun to get a little lost in this thread's meanderings and I can only hope the happenstance visitor doesn't become too irreparably confused as to hamper their basic mental existence. Such was never the intent. But sometimes intentions can be misunderstood.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

Memory files reminded me of this scene. It resonates with my understanding of what I've been learning. Warning: contains violence.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

All of a sudden, while standing on the porch, watching fall's fingertips tickle this patch of the earth, an angel from the Introverted Intuition Office appeared and took a seat on the squeaky swing, fiddled with her flimsy white garment, exposing exquisite legs, and then asked about a spare cigarette. A moment or two later, after a couple of meditative puffs, the angel from the Introverted Intuition Office at last addressed the reason for her appearance. She then said, "you know, no matter which of the psychological types you ever decide is most descriptive of you, you will still be the same person you have always been. You understand that, right?" She spared a smirk and stubbed the smoke and with a soft adios, she faded back into the immaterial dimension, where she then entered a misty elevator and returned to the Introverted Intuition Office.


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## SeagullStanley (Aug 7, 2018)

A few thoughts/observations not necessarily thread-related, but I like the atmosphere of this one so might as well stay here.

If I would play the 'do it all over' game....

1) If I could be the me at say 25ish today, my hands-down top interest or passion for pursuit would be digital art. Actually not just digital but all of it, visual arts, with a heavy preference for the cartoonish/animated. Whenever I see such works I am filled with awe and wonder and feel a respect for the artist that borders on envy. I do mess around with sundry digital painting programs but they always end up as disastrous doodles. Whenever I see someone who knows this stuff, I can't help but feel certain that there could hardly be a more enjoyable way to spend time than to draw/paint whatever you wanted. Such people are gods and goddesses to me. 

2) After my decision to sign up here at PerC, I took a hasty approach to the formalities, especially in the choice of a user-name. I'd been pecking at a story featuring a seagull couple (who end up getting lost while on vacation) and I'd given the male of the pair the name Seagull Stanley and thought it would be as good a user-name as any (mind you, I only meant to drop in and ask a few questions and then skedaddle). Anyway, if I could go back and do it all over again, or pick a better user-name, I would go with: Crazy Carl Young.


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