# INTJ, INFP - or something else entirely??



## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

This is an alternate questionnaire form you can fill out and post in order to help determine your Cognitive Functions!

*Please start a new thread when filling the questions out; don't post answers here.*

*0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.*

I am 32, female, and currently feeling very lost. I have social anxiety and depression. I think the depression stems from the consequences of the social anxiety though. I am not on any medications. I took the official MBTI inventory in high school (1997) and typed as INXP. The X really irritated me. I took various online tests after that and always typed as INFP. I have been a stay-at-home-mom for the past ten years and have 5 kids. Being ok with this ebbs and tides. I'm currently at a low point and feel like I'm going insane. I don't want to wash more dishes or be interrupted anymore! Usually I can retrench, dig deep, and get over it and find way to get "happy" again, but of course I never really am. I took another online inventory the other day, trying to be as honest as I possibly could, and was typed as INTJ. This struck me as odd and opened up a floodgate of repressed feelings. 

Is it relevant that I find it strange these questions are numbered from 0?

*1. Click on this link: Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.

*I don't have enough posts to post the image, but it was a black and white image of boats on a concrete shore with a storm brewing above them:

What country is this and who do those boats belong to? There is a storm brewing. Turmoil, stewing, coldness, frigid waters. Emptiness - no people. Only the sounds of the ocean and wind. 

*2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?*

I wouldn't be in a car with a group of people to go see art or music lol BUT to attend to your question, if I found myself in a car that has just broken down for no apparent reason, I would get upset. I would check first if there was an obvious reason for breaking down. Lack of gas comes to mind, a flat tire maybe. If my husband were in the car, I would wait for him to solve the problem because he is mechanically inclined. If no one was doing anything, I would pop the hood, get out of the car, and take a look to see if there were some obvious problem. If there is, I'd see if someone could fix it. If no one could, I would call a family member or business for help. If I couldn't call for some reason, I'd probably start walking. If other people were getting pissed off, I'd probably stay cool. If other people are playing it cool, I'd probably get pissed off. If someone else takes the lead, I'll probably sit and just follow. If other people are freaking out or won't do anything, I'll stay calm and take the lead.

*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?*

I'd want to make a "uuccchhh" noise and roll my eyes. But I'd probably just say I don't feel like going to an afterparty. I tend to make people very uncomfortable and most people wouldn't even ask me to go to an afterparty because I am a known party pooper. I do, however, feel bad for making people so uncomfortable. So in some cases I would go to the after party grudgingly, but trying to not show it, but end up showing it anyway because I just can't control my body language that well. I would sit by myself, not talk to anyone unless spoken to, and then even when spoken to I would give my thin lipped smile and nod and pray to die of a brain hemorrhage. I'd probably also get a migraine.

*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?*

My inward reaction is is the throaty "uucccchhhh" noise again and a really deep eye roll. I don't usually do that on the outside though unless I know you well (If I know you REALLY well, then you were probably egging me for a debate and are expecting that reaction and we will have a long conversation into the night). On the outside I would just smile and nod. I used to engage with people about their beliefs, but I realize now how irrational it is. I usually just end up very angry and feel intellectually impotent. I don't normally talk to people, but I have gotten into the habit of unfriending people on facebook whose posts are filled with garbage beliefs. People who post and/or talk about their beliefs so freely with strangers/non-close-friends are usually idiots and I really REALLY want to say something, but I know I can't "win" -- people cling to their idiotic ideologies like NRA members cling to their guns -- and knowing that kind of idiocy exists angers me. 

SO, if it's a friend I try to just ignore it, or let them talk while I smile and nod while screaming "NO NO NO YOU IDIOT!!!" on the inside. (Unless it is a REALLY close friend, in which case you are a sparring partner and already know my beliefs and were just challenging me and want to debate and/or discuss possibilities.) Or if it's not a close friend, I'll do the same thing, but try to avoid them from then on. If it's on facebook and it happens routinely, I'll unfriend you for my own sanity. I don't normally interact with people whose beliefs clash with my own. It really does depend on the severity of the clash though. I've been known to be a loyal reader of a blog, and then drop it and never read it again, never looking back, all because of one post, or even one sentence that just completely destroys my ability to respect that bloggers thoughts on anything else for all of eternity. Your willingness to defend your beliefs while also respecting others beliefs is also big with me. If you can do that I will respect you. Usually these people are open to more knowledge and/or exploring possibilities and/or reasons for beliefs.

*5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?*

I have changed my beliefs and habits numerous times on the basis of new information. A big one was my husband pointing out that I am extremely negative. My gut reaction was to say "No I'm not!" -- and he said: "See?" And I suddenly knew he was right. Even though I saw myself as "nice" and "pleasant" and "optimistic" before, I was suddenly aware that my gut reaction to most everything was either "No" or "That's stupid!" It was enlightening. I have tried to be less negative since then. I also don't get upset when people tell me I'm negative, because now I know it's true.

I have also been staunchly pro-choice, and then staunchly pro-life in the abortion arena. I am now hovering in the personally pro-life, but legally pro-choice area. 

I change all the time really. I guess what I really hate are people who choose a position, seemingly solely because that's the opinion they could afford with the scarcity of brain cells they had available, and then cling to that opinion till the day they die, decrying everyone else in the world as an idiot and taking every circumstance available to let the world know what they think. And yes, I'm aware of my own hypocrisy there. I'm still weaving that into my personal narrative. I'll get it to fit somehow.

*6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?*

My most important personal values are discipline (being able to pull yourself up by the bootstraps), commitment to family (kids and spouse), seeking of knowledge. You know I'm a little stumped by this one. I have developed my values because the only other option is suicide, but since suicide is the option that's ALWAYS open, I decided to at least try some of the others. That's a bit morbid I guess, but its comforting to me. I read a lot. I change my beliefs and values often. Integrity of thought and action is big with me and probably comes the closest to being my most basic foundational value upon which all other values must stand. My values usually change in response to me sitting and thinking about things, interpreting my books in different ways. 

*7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?*

My reclusiveness. Much of it is my social anxiety, but much of it is also by choice. I have lived in a place for two years, and most people have still not even seen me, let alone talked to me. My husband says I seem nice/passive on the outside, but I am positively scathing and really pretty mean on the inside. He says he has literally never met anyone who is as sarcastic or has such a mean-spirited wit as me, nor anyone who is as rebellious/stubborn as I am...but I am also one of the fairest/kindest people he has met as well. You have to push me really hard to get my meanness to show, but I can destroy people if pushed hard enough. If people just meet me out and about they think I am scary, angry, and snobby. If I am trying to make a good impression people think I am awkward/shy/nice. And if you really know me you finally get to see my very sharp sarcastic sense of humor and strong will. I am straightforward though and usually find a way to let people know exactly what I think of them while remaining civil.

If I could change anything about me, it would be to erase my paranoia about what other people are thinking. I would want to not care what other people think. I have had phases in my life where this is true, and I felt healthier. I wish I either had more social skills to hide myself better OR could stop caring what people thought so I could be the real me. My husband insists people would like the real me 

*8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?*

I tend to try and find a way to "prove" my hunches using real life data, otherwise I feel like I have to throw them away. If I can turn my mind off and just go with the flow though, nothing makes me feel more energized than trusting my gut. I fear it being wrong though, and feel like I need to prove to other people that I'm not just making &^%$ up. My hunches can come at me suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere. Or they can come when I make a conscious decision to listen to them and shut my blathering mind up so I can hear them. I am not nearly successful at doing this enough though. It's scary for me, and oddly exhilarating -- the exhilarating thing often makes me want to slam on the brakes.

Hunches are triggered by physical objects (where we should live, what I should buy), by where things are in my house -- even when things are a mess and I don't know, my "guess" is always right on the money. Answers on jeopardy. Things like seeing a license plate the other day that said "tirofog" -- my husband and I were like, what the heck is that supposed to mean? And then my mind just spat out that it was to be read backwards "go for it". I'm not sure if that's a hunch though. I also use hunches to solve problems on my computer. It's the ONLY way I work on my computer. My husband is amazed at what I can solve just by following my nose. Research on the internet is the same. I pick a place to start, and then follow hunches till the end.

*9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?*

Reading energizes me. Chores (dishes, laundry, helping kids with homework) wipe me out. I like doing some rote tasks too, like filling out forms...but I start to get tired of it after a while and then it switches to being a draining task -- but I do always look forward to filling out forms. I also love to sit and do nothing but think -- daydreaming I guess. Listening to music energizes me as well. Going for walks alone energizes me. Meeting people drains me. Thinking about doing another day of chores drains me. Watching TV I'm not interested in drains me. Writing when I don't have a clear idea of what I'm trying acheive drains me, or when I'm trying to acheive something that I "decided on" consciously. Writing when I have something to say, when it comes from my gut, energizes me.

*10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?*

I repress my sarcasm and scathing remarks! I don't like to hurt peoples feelings because they'll confront me about it, and I hate confrontation. I do everything I can to be invisible. I still think evil thoughts though lol. I also repress my desire to not smile -- I have to make an effort to have open body language and smile. I don't do it with everyone though because I have learned that some men think a woman smiling means she's interested and I have gotten into trouble with that. It's so confusing and I hate that people can't just figure me out. So I'm very quiet with people. Since I'm not replacing my internal thoughts, I'm left with nothing to say. So I follow the maxim, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all! Many people think I am actually slightly retarded. When you don't have anything to say and just smile and nod in response to everything, I guess that's where many people's minds go. Especially because my smile is so fake and stupid.



I got into this whole personality thing again because I hit a wall with my housework and I just. don't. want. to do it anymore. I swear I just about slip into a coma in reaction to doing chores. I keep coming up with new systems to get it done, and that works for a while, but eventually the newness wears off. I think I have 5 different ways to wash the dishes now. I am struggling to think of new ways to make it interesting! Am I nuts? How many people come up with so many systems to do that same friggin tasks day in and day out. I think I've used every Cognitive Behavioral trick in the book to trick myself into seeing housework as something new and to be conquered, because I like conquering it and being in control...but then I eventually slip into the bogs. Like that horse Artax in The Neverending Story. I'm running out of ways to view my housework! Blah!


Thank you


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## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

*I took the enneagram quiz and scored:* Your trifix is 6w5, 1w2, 2w1.

I don't know what this means, but thought I would add it here as it may be helpful.


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## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

I also just took the Cognitive Functions quiz:

*Your Cognitive Functions:
*Introverted Intuition (Ni) ||||||||||||||||||| 8.945
Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||| 7.65
Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||||||||||| 6.62
Introverted Thinking (Ti) ||||||||||||| 5.61
Introverted Feeling (Fi) |||||||| 3.17
Introverted Sensation (Si) |||||| 2.24
Extroverted Feeling (Fe) || -0.09
Extroverted Sensation (Se) || -0.97

Your *Introverted Intuition (Ni)* is very developed.
Your *Extroverted Intuition (Ne)* is moderate.
Your *Introverted Sensation (Si)* is moderate.
Your *Introverted Thinking (Ti)* is moderate.
Your *Extroverted Thinking (Te)* is moderate.
Your *Introverted Feeling (Fi)* is moderate.
Your *Extroverted Sensation (Se)* is low.
Your *Extroverted Feeling (Fe)* is low.

Based on your cognitive functions, your type is most likely:
Most Likely: *INTJ*
or Second Possibility: *ENTP*
or Third Possibility: *ENTJ*


Your cognitive functions are, in order of development:
Ni - Ne - Te - Ti - Fi - Si - Fe - Se


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

0: Hi - it is kinda weird but then it makes sense.
1: Ne
2: Strong Fi ... and more likely Ne from the possibilities over observation.
3: Yes, but why?
4: I can see how you got INTJ, LOL... but something is not right. Te inferior? This isn't controlled, practiced, or healthy. This isn't ego-driven, it's flailing.
5: Fi and Ne - welcome to the wild world of NF!!! This is actually your super power (assuming I am correct).
6: Cognative bootstraps? LOL - You sound very much like an INFP smashing against their weaker functions like the tide against a rock. As much as you fall back on the T stuff it's clearly not something you are practiced at and in control of.
7: Lots of INTJ style talk here but I am quite convinced it's a troubled INFP talking.
8: Interesting.
9: INFP for realzies.
10: No comment.


Okay, so I think you are an INFP. I am rarely this certain... but you fit the bill pretty well. I say forget the INTJ thing - INTJs certainly do act the way you describe... but for them being a critic is a super power that they do when they are happy and healthy. For you it doesn't seem very healthy or happy at all. Do your INTJ traits feed your self-image or destroy it?

If this is true then I can tell you I have a somewhat unique insight on this, being married to an NFP who would rather jump off a bridge than wash another dish. I tell my wife that she is 'a natural poet and a lousy housewife'. That is the crux of it. Leave procedure to the Si folks and poetry to the poets. That is to say, you aren't using your strong functions!! No one, not no one, is going to be happy stuck doing something and being something that isn't them. The problem with --FP people of all sorts is that their contribution can be pretty intangible. There aren't a lot of job openings for poets and dreamers. 

My wife was at the end of her rope and I just said "Hire a maid and write short stories you idiot... is this the life you were meant to lead?" I do not recommend to her to 'get out and socialize' or 'just try your best' though when she is feeling healthier she can... chatting it up about the affairs of the day with a group of ESFJs or trying to reason with ISTPs is great and all but it's not using your super powers: Fi and Ne - strength of conviction and the world of possibilities!

When my wife is down and out I try to help her think of ways to express whatever conviction she has at the time in some creative way... that could be a poem or canvasing or just wearing a button or whatever.... the story is always the same, expressing your inner self through Ne whimsical creativity. 

Finding a community of like-minded individuals will be very important... people who naturally bring out your strong functions. A personality forum, for example!


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## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

arkigos said:


> 0: Hi - it is kinda weird but then it makes sense.
> 1: Ne
> 2: Strong Fi ... and more likely Ne from the possibilities over observation.
> 3: Yes, but why?
> ...


Thank you Arkigos - 

I really think you are right on a lot of this. My gut is telling me that I am under extreme duress and trying to use functions that do not come naturally to me. 

When I am healthy and happy I am still very sarcastic (it is my preferred form of communication..that and movie quotes) but it is playful. I would never ever EVER want to hurt someone's feelings, even if I hated them, unless they violated a principle of mine. 

If I am not stressed I can be a very messy (but intuitively still know where everything is) person. When I am stressed I am super organized and get very angry when people mess with my organization.

I am also a critical person, but I can usually read into a person well enough now to know whether being critical will benefit them or not. Many people aren't looking for advice, and it's best to withhold it, so I usually do. I do not like being around complete emotional basket cases though. Especially people who follow their emotions to the detriment of their principles. Or who just don't have principles period.

Unfortunately, I appear to be a dismal failure at "whimsical creativity." I have to have a skill that earns money, and if I have that money worry in the back of my mind, nothing I do comes out good. My creativity shuts down in the face of pressure and my "thinking" (Spreadsheets, Forms, Plans, Contingency Plans, etc) comes out! Having 5 kids to support because I'm afraid my husband might lose his job, and who puts pressure on me to become the breadwinner because he wants to quit his job, I just, well...no, poetry doesn't pay. I do love reading it though and when I feel like I'm at my breaking point, poetry comes out and can help center me. But just long enough for the need to earn a living to drop on me again. If I can get myself to drop the crutch of forms and plans and needing security and a way to prove I'm being productive, I do MUCH better just kind of wingin' it.

I have also failed at convincing my husband I do in fact love him. He smothers me with his neediness (I must sit and stare at the TV with him at night -- no I can't sit next to him and read a book, I have to watch what he's watching!, plus lots of touchy feely...and then if the excessive amounts of touchy feely come off as rote, mechanical or otherwise not full of genuine emotion...well it's not good enough and I get chastised as being cold, frigid, unloving -- and unfortunately I really have become cold and distant). Which is what made me think I MUST be a T instead of an F. But before all this I definitely would have believed I'm far more Feeling Oriented. I think feeling smothered has led me to shut off my Feelings. Is that possible? Can a Feeler be smothered physically, and then react by closing up? 


Maybe I need to try and type my husband and figure out what's going on with him. 

I also am craving college right now. I started my family young and never got a chance to explore college. I completed my associates in community college, but my husband was very unsupportive and tried to undermine my efforts every step of the way. I am craving having deadlines and goals and a concrete THING I can use to go get a job. I want to major in computer information systems, which strikes me as a thinkers realm, but question if I could be happy with that. I feel like I want something that can be conquered concretely through known actions right now, even though I strongly suspect it will bore me later on. I am drawn to history and english, but my head says those are impractical, that I will never get a job with them, and that I'll disover I really truly once and for all have no writing ability whatsoever. 

The more I write, the more I start to reconnect with my feeling side lol. Is wanting to scream and have a temper tantrum an NF thing? 

Anyway, thank you thank you! I need more insight and I need to make decisions about my life without letting myself be pressured or bullied...and without destroying my marriage either. Ugh! Tall order.


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## Elyasis (Jan 4, 2012)

I agree with the above poster on INFP.

Your answer to number 3 in particular set it in stone for me. (I read bottom up, mostly).

It common for introverted perceivers to mistake their Fi/Ti and Ne as Ni. This stems from the fact that Ni is one of the least understood functions. Si is also commonly misunderstood.
Psychological Types - Wikisocion
as opposed to
Psychological Types - Wikisocion

But as Fi is your primary function you naturally introspect and might mistake said introspection as evidence of Ni. Having a relatively active Te would lead you to test on the quizzes as a TJ of some description.

It also sounds to me like you have serious Fi burnout. I also sense your SO is calling for a Fe response from you and not receiving it because you feel it to be disingenuous if given all the time.

Concern about rote tasks becoming boring and at the same time finding them reassuring is common enough with INxP types.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

darkstarling said:


> When I am healthy and happy I am still very sarcastic (it is my preferred form of communication..that and movie quotes) but it is playful. I would never ever EVER want to hurt someone's feelings, even if I hated them, unless they violated a principle of mine.


Where there is Fi, there is Te. Internalized values and externalized criticism are two sides of a coin. 



darkstarling said:


> If I am not stressed I can be a very messy (but intuitively still know where everything is) person. When I am stressed I am super organized and get very angry when people mess with my organization.


Si inferior. When I come home to a messy house, all is well. When I come home to a really clean house, the alarms go off.



darkstarling said:


> I am also a critical person, but I can usually read into a person well enough now to know whether being critical will benefit them or not. Many people aren't looking for advice, and it's best to withhold it, so I usually do. I do not like being around complete emotional basket cases though. Especially people who follow their emotions to the detriment of their principles. Or who just don't have principles period.


Yeah, this is Fi + Te being one single thing. and Te types and Fi types are just a matter of preference/emphasis when healthy.



darkstarling said:


> Unfortunately, I appear to be a dismal failure at "whimsical creativity." I have to have a skill that earns money, and if I have that money worry in the back of my mind, nothing I do comes out good. My creativity shuts down in the face of pressure and my "thinking" (Spreadsheets, Forms, Plans, Contingency Plans, etc) comes out! Having 5 kids to support because I'm afraid my husband might lose his job, and who puts pressure on me to become the breadwinner because he wants to quit his job, I just, well...no, poetry doesn't pay. I do love reading it though and when I feel like I'm at my breaking point, poetry comes out and can help center me. But just long enough for the need to earn a living to drop on me again. If I can get myself to drop the crutch of forms and plans and needing security and a way to prove I'm being productive, I do MUCH better just kind of wingin' it.


Your 'thinking' is not just Thinking. It's Si inferior (procedure, 'rote', correct action) and Te tertiary (imposing order and looking for order, criticism). If you are spending a lot of time with these and you don't like it... you are an INFP in a bad place. 



darkstarling said:


> I have also failed at convincing my husband I do in fact love him. He smothers me with his neediness (I must sit and stare at the TV with him at night -- no I can't sit next to him and read a book, I have to watch what he's watching!, plus lots of touchy feely...and then if the excessive amounts of touchy feely come off as rote, mechanical or otherwise not full of genuine emotion...well it's not good enough and I get chastised as being cold, frigid, unloving -- and unfortunately I really have become cold and distant). Which is what made me think I MUST be a T instead of an F. But before all this I definitely would have believed I'm far more Feeling Oriented. I think feeling smothered has led me to shut off my Feelings. Is that possible? Can a Feeler be smothered physically, and then react by closing up?


I want to be careful with this one. You've got to get yourself in order and you'll be able to approach this much better. The problem is that fear causes desperation. How do you appease that fear without having to rely on your weak/shadow functions? There is definitely a way! It's going to take a little high-level conceptual thought, I'd think, and a lot of working through your emotions. roud:



darkstarling said:


> Maybe I need to try and type my husband and figure out what's going on with him.


My guess is he is probably on the S side of the Great N/S Divide. Probably an Si dom? Si Fe? I recognize that is a massive intuitive leap but the problem as you describe it is pretty indicative of the massive paradigm (way of seeing and approaching the world) difference between N types and S types. It can (but isn't always) be a real problem.



darkstarling said:


> I also am craving college right now. I started my family young and never got a chance to explore college. I completed my associates in community college, but my husband was very unsupportive and tried to undermine my efforts every step of the way. I am craving having deadlines and goals and a concrete THING I can use to go get a job. I want to major in computer information systems, which strikes me as a thinkers realm, but question if I could be happy with that. I feel like I want something that can be conquered concretely through known actions right now, even though I strongly suspect it will bore me later on. I am drawn to history and english, but my head says those are impractical, that I will never get a job with them, and that I'll disover I really truly once and for all have no writing ability whatsoever.


You got one life and a set of gifts and that's brass tacks. You won't be able to will your way out of it. NF types are often in technical fields, actually... though I imagine that the more abstract the work the better as a general rule. I-FP types can really struggle to find their medium. It all boils down to championing a cause/feeling/ideal/principle through music/stories/poetry and even management. Sometimes it's none of these things and the INFP just wants to flit about and learn and think and feel and share as they see fit in the moment. This is obviously not practical all the time *but it needs to happen every day, all the time. *



darkstarling said:


> The more I write, the more I start to reconnect with my feeling side lol. Is wanting to scream and have a temper tantrum an NF thing?


Haha, I don't know... Fi Te thing? Human thing? Mammal thing?



darkstarling said:


> Anyway, thank you thank you! I need more insight and I need to make decisions about my life without letting myself be pressured or bullied...and without destroying my marriage either. Ugh! Tall order.


Once you are regularly doing the things that give you energy, you will have so much more power to deal with the rest.


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## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

ok, part of me can acccept a diagnosis of INFP. The other part of me feels like you just told me I have cancer lol. I googled INFP for some type descriptions and they still rub me the wrong way just like they did back in HS, which is why I discarded my type back then. Especially one type page where supposed INFP's started talking about Astrology like it was some sort of specialized technical field, with moon signs and ascendants and what not. This is another situation where I would nod politely, and then excuse myself as fast as possible. I am in love with the IDEA of the supernatural, but I just don't believe in it and can't make myself believe in it, and question the sanity of people who do believe in it. I have the same relationship with the concept of God. I have a strong desire to believe, but I just can't. Am I using Fi here? 

However, I *am* willing to admit I might have Fi as my dominant function after considering it all night. I was able to find one infp blog (infpblog.com) that struck a chord with me and that I didn't want to run from screaming. It's more self-help, cognitive behavioral based self development, versus moon signs astrology. I can dig it.

I just want some help clarifying a few things though before I can accept being an INFP (god help me) and moving on with my life. Because I need to move on with my life, and if Fi is what I've got, I better learn to use it.

1. The absolute most impressive thing I have ever done and really felt proud of myself for was finally figuring out how to get A's in school. I have always been a rebellious classic underacheiver. I frustrated those around me (teachers and counselors specifically) because I had so much potential, but I refused to play by the rules. In some instances, I would be sent to sit in the school office on a regular basis because my rebellious attitude was affecting the class badly (other people started rebelling). Me and school did not get along. I dropped out of community college (lame yes I know) after three semesters with a .39 GPA. Fast forward 6 years and I've magically discovered that the perfect job for me would be a librarian. Everyone who has ever known me agrees this would be good, only thing is, I need a Masters degree. So I make a plan to go from community college, to a state college for my BA, all the way to my Masters. I have to get all A's in order to do this in order to bring my GPA up, which kind of freaks me out, because I tend to butt heads with teachers and end up with F's (I refuse to do their pointless busywork, my opinions expressed in essay's don't jive with their own opinions - they don't even realize that these essays ARE opinions, most teachers mistake their opinions for being facts) ANYWAY...I decided to put away my own ego and get A's. I did this by figuring out what type of person the teacher was, what the teacher was looking for, and spewing out exactly what that particular teacher wanted. SUCCESS!! I've never experienced such success and it was so empowering! I don't think I've ever been happier in my life. It ALSO cemented my belief that the vast majority of teachers are complete idiots. But now that I knew I didn't have to be beholden to their idiocy and fail at everything...it was mind blowing. I was really looking forward to continuing, but life and bureaucracy got in the way and I had to put all that aside. I also really liked getting the highest grades in classes that other people said were impossible.

Now, everything I've read says that it should bother me to do something like this. Instead it felt like being set free. Is there are strong Fi element at work here? 


Also, because I do really well on tests, I often have people asking me what my "secret" for studying is. I tell them that I don't study exactly, I read and absorb. I tell them that in order to absorb information, you have to read it from an attitude of arrogance. You have to pretend like you already know everything already. When you're trying to understand mathmatical principles, it helps to pretend you are some genius, like Einstein or whatever, and suddenly all the information will go in, you'll remember things, and it will all make sense. It can also help to write stuff down, usually in a mind map form, the way things connect...and then throw the mind map away. Every single person I have told this to looks at me like I have two heads, and then goes back to their obsessive fash card making and whining about "I'll never be able to get this!" 

If I try to use accepted study techniques, like those official RRRQ forms or whatever they are, or flash cards, or whatever, I do really, really badly. I have to take in all the information all at once, or else I won't see hte connections and I won't get it. Is this Ne at work? Is that my Fi at work as well, along with Ne?

Things I thought about last night that made me believe in the Fi principle are situations like the fact that I have 5 children. If I were more logical, I would probably only have two. The last three were unexpected/unplanned. I am against abortion personally (not legally, no one jump on me for this please) because I thought about it long and hard and I just knew that I would be haunted by the "what if's" of those children for the rest of my life if I got an abortion. The only reasons abortion even entered my mind is because I struggle to be a mother (emotionally, I have had breakdowns), we have financial difficulties, and for the last two we were functionally homeless. It would make sense to not have more babies - but I just couldn't live with myself and knew I would wonder for the rest of my life who it was that I had suffered not to live. It's certainly not *their* fault that I can't get the whole contraceptive thing down.

Also, I took a long hard look at my bookshelves. Here's the books that I actually own:

Lots of self-help. Lots and lots. Everything from Getting Things Done (which I love) down to Tony Robbins (which I'm embarassed by). I'm always looking for ways to clarify both who I am and how to translate that to actually achieving something in the real world. Mostly because I have no idea what I want. Every time I get too deeply into my values and why's though, everything suddenly seems so arbitrary. I don't *like* relying on my Fi to make decisions, I realize how arbitrary it is, so I discard it...but I don't have any other function strong enough to step in and make decisions??? I'm just thinking out loud here. Ultimately, I feel better if I get rid of all the books completely and stop trying to make myself figure it all out.

Ok, I also have lots of cookbooks that I like to read, but never use. NEVER. I have used recipes off the internet, but usually when I want to make something I will google it, read a whole bunch of different recipes, and then put something together using the best parts of what I find. This doesn't always work out well because I don't have a well developed sensibility for taste combinations. The only recipes I use as is are two recipes for spice seasonings I got off the internet. I like the IDEA of using recipes though, and the nostalgic homey feeling cookbooks give me. I especially like the ones that are really old, have no pictures, and have lots of writing ABOUT the food and recipes, like The Frugal Gourmet. I read these to calm my anxiety.

I also have lots of fiction. Stephen King, John D. MacDonald, and JK Rowling dominate. I will read and re-read the same books over and over and over again, especially when stressed. I also love Lord of the Rings. I don't like most fiction - like stuff you see in the check-out lane. I hate romance novels (big exception is Gone with the Wind), I love Southern Gothic. If you make me read something like a James Patterson novel or a Twilight novel, I will get a migraine and get extremely angry and irritable and I won't stop complaining for days and days about everything I hate about these books. 

I also have A LOT of writing books. I like to read about writing and writing theory much more than I actually like to write. Things like Story by Robert McKee, Immediate Fiction, The Simple Art of Murder -- also lots of grammar, punctuation guides and a big ol WORD FINDER. I love readng the dictionary and thesaurus. I don't like making plots. Which is why I don't write. I can't think of plots and I think plotless writing is boring and pretentious. And of course I don't want to think *I'm* boring and pretentious, so I try to put away my writing ambitions in order to preserve myself. .. but it doesn't work. I still want to write. But without a plot, I'm just another whiner/foo foo/free bird type writer and I hate that. Sometimes I feel like those people who audition for American Idol, and they're just terrible and aren't ever going to go anywhere, but they have this passion and just can't give up. 

And last but not least, I have my history books. I don't like the big concepts of history. I like to read personal stories. So all of my history books are of a social history standpoint. I'm not reading about the past to learn from it, but to experience it. What I do learn from it is that we as humans are exactly the same now as we were back then. I don't believe in "evolving", as if we're "better" people now. We're pretty rotten as people....but it's the rottenness/goodness struggle that fascinates me. 


So that's my bookshelf. Which seems pretty darn feelerish to me now.


Oh -- and the best compliment I have ever gotten, or that I felt most proud of anyway, was in speech class. We had to write an essay debating a topic (mine was helmet laws). We had to write one essay from a "for" standpoint, and the other essay from an "against" standpoint. The teacher said mine was the only paper in the class where she could not tell what my personal standpoint was....even though I thought it should be obvious what my personal standpoint was, because to me one argument was logical, and the opposing argument was just stupid (but heart felt). But anyway, I really liked that I wrote the essay well enough that she couldn't tell. 


If anyone just slogged through all that and wants to explain Fi to me and confirm for me if I am using it, or suppressing it, or whatever, please do...and thank you


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

darkstarling said:


> ...especially one type page where supposed INFP's started talking about Astrology like it was some sort of specialized technical field, with moon signs and ascendants and what not...


I don't know but I also don't know ANY INFP that believes in Astrology. I know one INFJ who kinda believes in stuff like that. That seems like more of an Ni thing (actually more like a neither of them thing.. just as likely Si or Se or whatever)... Ni types construct beliefs and hold onto them... Ne flits through beliefs like the pages of a good book... Ni informs you politely of their beliefs can can be hypnotically convincing (vortex of pure belief) while Ne likes to banter beliefs around like a beach ball. That doesn't mean that Ne types lack conviction.

I am seriously sick of these dumb websites. INFPs and Astrology?! Very poor stereotyping there. Awful. 

I have several INFP friends talk about their 'five years as a Christian' or 'oh I remember when I was a Buddhist'. That is a much better Ne stereotype! LOL



darkstarling said:


> However, I *am* willing to admit I might have Fi as my dominant function after considering it all night. .... It's more self-help, cognitive behavioral based self development, versus moon signs astrology. I can dig it.


Fi is deconstructionist, like I said. You are going to be very reticent to accept any label or creed... even a Type!



darkstarling said:


> 1. The absolute most impressive thing I have ever done and really felt proud of myself for was finally figuring out how to get A's in school. I have always been a rebellious classic underacheiver... ...I decided to put away my own ego and get A's. I did this by figuring out what type of person the teacher was, what the teacher was looking for, and spewing out exactly what that particular teacher wanted. SUCCESS!! .... It ALSO cemented my belief that the vast majority of teachers are complete idiots. But now that I knew I didn't have to be beholden to their idiocy and fail at everything .... I also really liked getting the highest grades in classes that other people said were impossible.


A lot of types might speak this way. For J types this would have played out differently. 1) It would have come more naturally, 2) It would be less flash-in-the-pan project oriented and more of a given. P types are more frenetic ... low lows and high highs in terms of achievement. 



darkstarling said:


> Now, everything I've read says that it should bother me to do something like this. Instead it felt like being set free. Is there are strong Fi element at work here?


It sounds like it did bother you but you had a bigger goal that superseded it. Actually, this scenario is not particularly unique to your type.. but the way you approached it is pretty P... and the way you talk about your teachers hints Fi/Te. 



darkstarling said:


> Also, because I do really well on tests, I often have people asking me what my "secret" for studying is. I tell them that I don't study exactly, I read and absorb. I tell them that in order to absorb information, you have to read it from an attitude of arrogance. You have to pretend like you already know everything already. When you're trying to understand mathmatical principles, it helps to pretend you are some genius, like Einstein or whatever, and suddenly all the information will go in, you'll remember things, and it will all make sense. It can also help to write stuff down, usually in a mind map form, the way things connect...and then throw the mind map away. Every single person I have told this to looks at me like I have two heads, and then goes back to their obsessive fash card making and whining about "I'll never be able to get this!"


Classic N. More Ne than Ni in terms of how you talk about it: almost like you are surprised and bemused by it whereas an Ni type would hold it closer to their ego, perhaps more 'divine spark' talk.



darkstarling said:


> If I try to use accepted study techniques, like those official RRRQ forms or whatever they are, or flash cards, or whatever, I do really, really badly. I have to take in all the information all at once, or else I won't see hte connections and I won't get it. Is this Ne at work? Is that my Fi at work as well, along with Ne?


That stuff is Si learning. You learn Ne style... creating connections in your head based on concepts and generalizations.



darkstarling said:


> Things I thought about last night that made me believe in the Fi principle are situations like the fact that I have 5 children. If I were more logical, I would probably only have two. The last three were unexpected/unplanned. I am against abortion personally (not legally, no one jump on me for this please) because I thought about it long and hard and I just knew that I would be haunted by the "what if's" of those children for the rest of my life if I got an abortion. The only reasons abortion even entered my mind is because I struggle to be a mother (emotionally, I have had breakdowns), we have financial difficulties, and for the last two we were functionally homeless. It would make sense to not have more babies - but I just couldn't live with myself and knew I would wonder for the rest of my life who it was that I had suffered not to live. It's certainly not *their* fault that I can't get the whole contraceptive thing down.


Classic Fi/Ne tangent. With an ENFP wife, this sort of stuff dominates my existence. Frankly, I love answering deconstructionist processing of value judgments.... (this is why NF(P) and NT(P) types get along so well... but I'll skip it in this context.



darkstarling said:


> Also, I took a long hard look at my bookshelves. Here's the books that I actually own:
> 
> Lots of self-help. Lots and lots. ....


Stereotypical NFP bookshelf. The idea of an NFP 'figuring it out' is a total joke... the questioning/searching is what defines you. It's your super power. 



darkstarling said:


> Ok, I also have lots of cookbooks that I like to read, but never use. NEVER. ..... I read these to calm my anxiety.


This is relatively common and is usually attributed to an Si inferior. Are we sure you aren't an ENFP? (more on that later)



darkstarling said:


> I also have lots of fiction. Stephen King, John D. MacDonald, and JK Rowling dominate. I will read and re-read the same books over and over and over again, especially when stressed. I also love Lord of the Rings. I don't like most fiction - like stuff you see in the check-out lane. I hate romance novels (big exception is Gone with the Wind), I love Southern Gothic. If you make me read something like a James Patterson novel or a Twilight novel, I will get a migraine and get extremely angry and irritable and I won't stop complaining for days and days about everything I hate about these books.


Pretty typical Fi/Ne stereotype. The 'read over and over when stressed' thing is Si inferior. When my wife is having a breakdown she cleans the house, goes into our room, locks the door and reads some dumb teen fantasy novel for the twentieth time.



darkstarling said:


> I also have A LOT of writing books...


NFPs are a graveyard of half-written books that would be amazing if finished.



darkstarling said:


> And last but not least, I have my history books. ... I like to read personal stories. ... We're pretty rotten as people....but it's the rottenness/goodness struggle that fascinates me.


I have an INFP friend who is a history major and while he can tell you all the technical stuff... he is much more capable of telling you the hidden stories. He was married in an old west church that he could tell you so much about your head would spin. He felt a ... mystical? ... connection to it, though being an INFP he would have totally balked and jokingly berated me for accusing him of being mystical. He is currently digging up a centuries old privy (yes, that's right) of one of his wives ancestors to learn more about them... to find a gem. This isn't Si sentimentality... it's Fi/Ne imagination. The meaning he puts into this is beyond absurd and overwrought and I am sure he'd admit that... but it's so delightfully esoteric and fantastical that he can't stop himself.



darkstarling said:


> Oh -- and the best compliment I have ever gotten, or that I felt most proud of anyway, was in speech class. We had to write an essay debating a topic (mine was helmet laws). We had to write one essay from a "for" standpoint, and the other essay from an "against" standpoint. The teacher said mine was the only paper in the class where she could not tell what my personal standpoint was....even though I thought it should be obvious what my personal standpoint was, because to me one argument was logical, and the opposing argument was just stupid (but heart felt). But anyway, I really liked that I wrote the essay well enough that she couldn't tell.


INFP .... Value-based abstract deconstructionist. She just told you that you were the best value-based abstract deconstructionist in the class. Awesome! My INFP friends would flip their lids for such a compliment... my ENFP wife as well.



darkstarling said:


> If anyone just slogged through all that and wants to explain Fi to me and confirm for me if I am using it, or suppressing it, or whatever, please do...and thank you


I would be remiss to fail to point out that it is still possible you are an ENFP... though quite a bit more likely INFP. ENFPs have a tendency to be a bit more oafish in their interactions with people where INFP is more careful. ENFPs have a bit of a reputation for being 'all over the place' than INFP... for example, your tangents.... my wife would accidentally just start sharing them with people without thinking... bowling through situations a bit more. INFP obviously is a lot more cautious. That is the only real big difference I can think of between the two... they are exceptionally close otherwise.

Also, INFP inferior is Te... so they can occasionally flip out and yell at people when they break down badly.. being normally quite reserved and careful... where ENFPs who are a bit more wacky normally can instead recluse and hide away when they break down. Don't put too much on this.. just food for thought.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

I completely disagree with INFP. You're definitely introverted, definitely some Fi in there. But not by any stretch of the imagination an Fi-dom. The Fi is there but it's lower: your T is higher. You have precisely the emotional makeup of a female IxTJ. Since you test very high Ni and very low Si then it's probably INTJ.

Reading your later posts, especially your experiences in marriage and in college, you sounds distinctly INTJ. Your way of studying (mind maps) is precisely Ni. Your taste in fiction is extremely Ni. I could go into much more detail, but I don't really have the time right now. I'm feeling very strongly about INTJ.


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## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

Arkigos, Thank you thank you thank you! I love you super muchos 

I think my social anxiety (among other things) has caused me to become pretty dysfunctional. I was on medication when I was about 19/20 that cured my social anxiety (I had to stop taking it because I got pregnant). I was still shy...but my whole personality shifted. Within a 6 week time period I suddenly had my first job ever, I got a dog, I got my ears pierced and went shopping for clothes (and enjoyed it!), I started taking anyone and everyone I could find out to eat, out to movies. 

At my job I was suddenly friends with everyone too, there were no age, sex, or ethnicity limitations whatsoever. I got along with everybody, and people were constantly seeking me out just to talk to. I would even go into work on my days off just to help people with their jobs and hang out. And I loved helping people. I grew unhappy with my job when my supervisor put limits on helping people. I worked in the clothing department, and customers would frequently ask me for help in other departments, like filling out fishing licenses, mixing paint, finding toys or matches or whatever...and I loved helping everyone. I was officially reprimanded for working outside my department  I guess I was supposed to go tell the customers to take a flying leap or something. Being reprimanded for something I thought I was doing great at was very hard. 

Anyway, your descriptions of INFP's you know make me feel better about the group as a whole. I also looked into the ENFP group here and felt very warm and snuggly in there lol I think my social anxiety might be what's making me miserable, and I can't function where I want to without fixing it. And trying to fix it on my own is just making me even more miserable. My husband has been very against me going on medication, but maybe I can make him see reason. He misses the me he fell in love with, but I think he is intimidated by me wanting to be social and reconnect with the world, like he'll lose me.

I have to go pick up my kids, but I'm going to re-read what you wrote later because I don't think I took it all in yet. And I think I will focus on figuring out if I am a shy ENFP or a true INFP...thank you for being so insightful! Or thinking-full, or whatever lol


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## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> I completely disagree with INFP. You're definitely introverted, definitely some Fi in there. But not by any stretch of the imagination an Fi-dom. The Fi is there but it's lower: your T is higher. You have precisely the emotional makeup of a female IxTJ. Since you test very high Ni and very low Si then it's probably INTJ.
> 
> Reading your later posts, especially your experiences in marriage and in college, you sounds distinctly INTJ. Your way of studying (mind maps) is precisely Ni. Your taste in fiction is extremely Ni. I could go into much more detail, but I don't really have the time right now. I'm feeling very strongly about INTJ.


Thank you so much for helping me out here  I just typed a big ol' long reply, and then it disappeared into "you-have-lost-your-connection-error" land. I think I am more inclined to believe that the traits I have been displaying are more defensive manifestations, rather than my true type. I am curious about my fiction tastes being very Ni though. I don't think I even understand what Ni is lol. I think for me, personally, my fiction preferences are based on Si. I read them because they make me feel reconnected and nostalgic. They are each full of pop culture, feelings, characters...and just very, I don't know..full. Reading them is like a warm fuzzy blanket for me, and I never get tired of them. I really think I am in love with John D. Macdonald. I wanted to go live on a houseboat in Florida all because of the Travis McGee series. I have to be rational though and realize that my impulse isn't based on anything really. And I'd probably die in Florida from the humidity. I think I also read Stephen King because I'm in love with Stephen King. And I'm in love with Ms. Rowling and her world too. Not in a sensual way, but in admiration really. I just love them and getting lost in their worlds. It's rare for me to find new authors I "connect" with this way.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> I completely disagree with INFP. You're definitely introverted, definitely some Fi in there. But not by any stretch of the imagination an Fi-dom. The Fi is there but it's lower: your T is higher. You have precisely the emotional makeup of a female IxTJ. Since you test very high Ni and very low Si then it's probably INTJ.
> 
> Reading your later posts, especially your experiences in marriage and in college, you sounds distinctly INTJ. Your way of studying (mind maps) is precisely Ni. Your taste in fiction is extremely Ni. I could go into much more detail, but I don't really have the time right now. I'm feeling very strongly about INTJ.


Doing a fresh re-read with this in mind it's not implausible and might be considered. We discussed a lot of Fi/Te and this is also true of INTJ though with reversed emphasis.

Ni is an interesting creature. It's very different than Ne and very much in the ways I described. An Ni is going to be careful in their consideration of ideas/conclusions/concepts. A good way of testing for Ni dom is to throw a new idea or concept at a person and watch. An Ne is going to make a snap judgment and then want to talk it through, exploring all the possibilities and moving onto the next. An Ni will not want to make a snap judgment and will internalize the question and work it through. This is a fairly ego-based process and the Ni is really going to own their response... and that is the very reason they are going to be careful about it.... they don't want to have a bad idea!!

I am an Ne/Ti (as opposed to Ni/Te for INTJ) and I honestly couldn't care less if I have a bad idea. It will be three seconds before I have another one... and then another one... and then another one. An INTJ would not identify with this at all. They'd say things like "Well, let me think about that.." or "Hold on, let me see...". 

The INTJ seeks to discover intuitive connections between things just as an Ne does, but is slow and thorough where an Ne will flit through connections until one looks shiny and then they'll pounce on it for a month and move on. It matters to the NJ if these intuitive leaps are correct and so they are careful with what ideas they've created and it can sometimes be fairly difficult to break them from these views. 

ENFJ/INFJ/ENTJ/INFJ are very difficult to move from those things they've come to believe... they own those things so much that they often think that they are simply reality. 

INTP/INFP/ENTP/ENFP will see how rigidly the others hold to their paradigm and be like ... 'uh, alright... I don't really see how you think you could know that - what about this" - this is also why the NJ types can sometimes be seen as more critical. 

This difference has actually created an interesting rift in my group of friends. The NJ types are slow to adopt big ideas and concepts and hold rather rigidly to them.. while the NP friends are always coming up with the 'next big thing'. We will all get together and the NPs are going on and on about the next big thing.. and the NJs listen and contribute but they are mostly just..... considering it... internalizing it.... slow to move from the sensible positions they hold.


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

darkstarling said:


> Thank you so much for helping me out here  I just typed a big ol' long reply, and then it disappeared into "you-have-lost-your-connection-error" land. I think I am more inclined to believe that the traits I have been displaying are more defensive manifestations, rather than my true type. I am curious about my fiction tastes being very Ni though. I don't think I even understand what Ni is lol. I think for me, personally, my fiction preferences are based on Si. I read them because they make me feel reconnected and nostalgic. They are each full of pop culture, feelings, characters...and just very, I don't know..full. Reading them is like a warm fuzzy blanket for me, and I never get tired of them. I really think I am in love with John D. Macdonald. I wanted to go live on a houseboat in Florida all because of the Travis McGee series. I have to be rational though and realize that my impulse isn't based on anything really. And I'd probably die in Florida from the humidity. I think I also read Stephen King because I'm in love with Stephen King. And I'm in love with Ms. Rowling and her world too. Not in a sensual way, but in admiration really. I just love them and getting lost in their worlds. It's rare for me to find new authors I "connect" with this way.


My INTJ mother has quite a self-help library. She also has had a life similar to yours and has similar sentiments. 

Figuring out Ne vs Ni is going to be a big deal, I think... I hope my previous post helps in that regard. 

I don't know which is going to be more trouble for you, INTJ or INFP.... my mother has had a real struggle as an INTJ woman until later life when she decided to start her own business and divorce my dad. She gets a lot of energy, ego payoff on a daily basis from being able to order the world around her (evil overlord style, which she hates but is totally true) and come up with great, well thought out ideas that she can carry through to completion and totally base her self-image on. LOL. Good times. 

The NTJ club is an interesting place. Willful creatures, those ones.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

darkstarling said:


> I took the official MBTI inventory in high school (1997) and typed as INXP. The X really irritated me. I took various online tests after that and always typed as INFP. I have been a stay-at-home-mom for the past ten years and have 5 kids. Being ok with this ebbs and tides. I'm currently at a low point and feel like I'm going insane. I don't want to wash more dishes or be interrupted anymore! Usually I can retrench, dig deep, and get over it and find way to get "happy" again, but of course I never really am. I took another online inventory the other day, trying to be as honest as I possibly could, and was typed as INTJ. This struck me as odd and opened up a floodgate of repressed feelings.
> 
> Is it relevant that I find it strange these questions are numbered from 0?


Yes. That and the fact that the 'X' irritated you shows that you're a logical thinker and sensitive to Te things. May have high Te.



> I don't have enough posts to post the image, but it was a black and white image of boats on a concrete shore with a storm brewing above them:
> 
> What country is this and who do those boats belong to? There is a storm brewing. Turmoil, stewing, coldness, frigid waters. Emptiness - no people. Only the sounds of the ocean and wind.


Hints to me of Ni (seeking to solve mysteries) and some Se and Fi.



> I would check first if there was an obvious reason for breaking down. Lack of gas comes to mind, a flat tire maybe. If my husband were in the car, I would wait for him to solve the problem because he is mechanically inclined. If no one was doing anything, I would pop the hood, get out of the car, and take a look to see if there were some obvious problem. If there is, I'd see if someone could fix it. If no one could, I would call a family member or business for help. If I couldn't call for some reason, I'd probably start walking. If other people were getting pissed off, I'd probably stay cool. If other people are playing it cool, I'd probably get pissed off. If someone else takes the lead, I'll probably sit and just follow. If other people are freaking out or won't do anything, I'll stay calm and take the lead.


This is an extremely rational approach to a crisis. You go through the possibilities of what could be wrong and seek to address the actual problem. An usual approach, especially for a female. You're most likely a strong T.

xNTJs are cool-headed in emergencies and (unlike STs, who are, too) usually can just see the sequence of steps that are needed to deal with the situation. ENTJs take the lead naturally. INTJs take it competently when they see that no one else is doing so.



> I tend to make people very uncomfortable and most people wouldn't even ask me to go to an afterparty because I am a known party pooper. I do, however, feel bad for making people so uncomfortable. So in some cases I would go to the after party grudgingly, but trying to not show it, but end up showing it anyway because I just can't control my body language that well. I would sit by myself, not talk to anyone unless spoken to, and then even when spoken to I would give my thin lipped smile and nod and pray to die of a brain hemorrhage. I'd probably also get a migraine.


An NFP, even an INFP, would be somewhat focused on the people there, even if it were exhausting to do so. An IxTx who didn't want to be there would just be dead in the water. Ni-doms especially have a weak sense of inhabiting their bodies.



> SO, if it's a friend I try to just ignore it, or let them talk while I smile and nod while screaming "NO NO NO YOU IDIOT!!!" on the inside. (Unless it is a REALLY close friend, in which case you are a sparring partner and already know my beliefs and were just challenging me and want to debate and/or discuss possibilities.)


INFPs are virtually incapable of separating issues from people (i.e. debating an issue with a good friend without feeling sick about it). INTJs are good at it, if the person is someone they respect who presents their ideas rationally and fairly.



> Your willingness to defend your beliefs while also respecting others beliefs is also big with me. If you can do that I will respect you. Usually these people are open to more knowledge and/or exploring possibilities and/or reasons for beliefs.


Like that.



> If I can turn my mind off and just go with the flow though, nothing makes me feel more energized than trusting my gut. I fear it being wrong though, and feel like I need to prove to other people that I'm not just making &^%$ up. My hunches can come at me suddenly, seemingly out of nowhere.


Ni.



> Hunches are triggered by physical objects (where we should live, what I should buy), by where things are in my house -- even when things are a mess and I don't know, my "guess" is always right on the money. Answers on jeopardy. Things like seeing a license plate the other day that said "tirofog" -- my husband and I were like, what the heck is that supposed to mean? And then my mind just spat out that it was to be read backwards "go for it". I'm not sure if that's a hunch though. I also use hunches to solve problems on my computer. It's the ONLY way I work on my computer. My husband is amazed at what I can solve just by following my nose. Research on the internet is the same. I pick a place to start, and then follow hunches till the end.


More Ni. Your intuition is not a brainstorming ideas, pattern-reading kind of intuition (Ne), it's a solution-seeking intuition (Ni). It takes in all information, it works underground, and you don't always know how it works, you just know that it's usually right and you can't explain it. That's Ni.



> I repress my sarcasm and scathing remarks! I don't like to hurt peoples feelings because they'll confront me about it, and I hate confrontation. I do everything I can to be invisible. I still think evil thoughts though lol. I also repress my desire to not smile -- I have to make an effort to have open body language and smile. I don't do it with everyone though because I have learned that some men think a woman smiling means she's interested and I have gotten into trouble with that. It's so confusing and I hate that people can't just figure me out. So I'm very quiet with people. Since I'm not replacing my internal thoughts, I'm left with nothing to say. So I follow the maxim, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all! Many people think I am actually slightly retarded. When you don't have anything to say and just smile and nod in response to everything, I guess that's where many people's minds go. Especially because my smile is so fake and stupid.


INTJ.



> Reading energizes me. Chores (dishes, laundry, helping kids with homework) wipe me out. I like doing some rote tasks too, like filling out forms...but I start to get tired of it after a while and then it switches to being a draining task -- but I do always look forward to filling out forms. I also love to sit and do nothing but think -- daydreaming I guess. Listening to music energizes me as well. Going for walks alone energizes me. Meeting people drains me. Thinking about doing another day of chores drains me. Watching TV I'm not interested in drains me. Writing when I don't have a clear idea of what I'm trying acheive drains me, or when I'm trying to acheive something that I "decided on" consciously. Writing when I have something to say, when it comes from my gut, energizes me.





> I got into this whole personality thing again because I hit a wall with my housework and I just. don't. want. to do it anymore. I swear I just about slip into a coma in reaction to doing chores. I keep coming up with new systems to get it done, and that works for a while, but eventually the newness wears off. I think I have 5 different ways to wash the dishes now. I am struggling to think of new ways to make it interesting! Am I nuts? How many people come up with so many systems to do that same friggin tasks day in and day out.


INxJs are systematizers. INTJs especially. They also get insanely bored with routine. They easily master things and have a need to move on to something else, another challenge.



> I think I've used every Cognitive Behavioral trick in the book to trick myself into seeing housework as something new and to be conquered, because I like conquering it and being in control...but then I eventually slip into the bogs. Like that horse Artax in The Neverending Story. I'm running out of ways to view my housework! Blah!


Poor Artax. He was a beautiful horse and so good for Atreyu. I wish he hadn't given up.

I just want to address the housework thing. Housework is Se: it's attending to immediately-present physical realities, which is exhausting to an Ni-dominant since Se is their inferior function. They can do it, but not for long. If this is what's really getting to you, it would perfectly fit with dom-Ni/inf-Se.



darkstarling said:


> If I am not stressed I can be a very messy (but intuitively still know where everything is) person. When I am stressed I am super organized and get very angry when people mess with my organization.


Typical of inferior-Se. It's classic Ni-dom behavior, to the point that they laugh about it in the INFJ subforum.



> Maybe I need to try and type my husband and figure out what's going on with him.


Great idea. I wondered about the same thing.


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## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

I am going to stick with INFP or ENFP for now. I need to look into both. I really don't think I am an evil overlord type person. Thank you


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

arkigos said:


> I am an Ne/Ti (as opposed to Ni/Te for INTJ) and I honestly couldn't care less if I have a bad idea. It will be three seconds before I have another one... and then another one... and then another one. An INTJ would not identify with this at all. They'd say things like "Well, let me think about that.." or "Hold on, let me see...".


Haha! That makes perfect sense! I'm not as attached to my conclusions as Ni-thinkers are, it's more important to me that my reasoning (Ti) is correct than my conclusion (Ni), but I'm not as nonchalant about it as you are (with your Ne). Having Ni myself, I do hate to have a wrong conclusion, just not as much as I hate to have wrong reasoning. I hate admitting when I'm wrong, but I will sometimes suck it up and do it, but it's less painful if I can point out what misunderstanding of information my calculation was based on, so that others understand that my reasoning was correct (even if they're feelers and don't remotely care what happened or why and couldn't possibly understand how my ego is involved in a slight misinterpretation of information). In fact this just happened this weekend while I was navigating and driving us home from the mountains, and my ego is very, very much tied up in correct navigation (Ti-Se).


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

darkstarling said:


> I am going to stick with INFP or ENFP for now. I need to look into both. I really don't think I am an evil overlord type person. Thank you


Ugh. (Evil overlords.) The stereotypes are sometimes thick and it's hard to see past them to really understand the types. Fair enough, though. If you have the time I would make an attempt to get to see the more human sides of INTJs and ISTJs in the subforums here, especially the more mature ones, and especially the women. I had a very hard time finding my own type when all I saw of ISTPs were 16-year-old boys drooling over motorcycles and denying that the universe had any more depth to it than what they could see and blow up. All of the types are human, it's a matter of discovering which functions you use and how they work in you.


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## darkstarling (Oct 17, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> Haha! That makes perfect sense! I'm not as attached to my conclusions as Ni-thinkers are, it's more important to me that my reasoning (Ti) is correct than my conclusion (Ni), but I'm not as nonchalant about it as you are (with your Ne). Having Ni myself, I do hate to have a wrong conclusion, just not as much as I hate to have wrong reasoning. I hate admitting when I'm wrong, but I will sometimes suck it up and do it, but it's less painful if I can point out what misunderstanding of information my calculation was based on, so that others understand that my reasoning was correct (even if they're feelers and don't remotely care what happened or why and couldn't possibly understand how my ego is involved in a slight misinterpretation of information). In fact this just happened this weekend while I was navigating and driving us home from the mountains, and my ego is very, very much tied up in correct navigation (Ti-Se).


I love examples like this. I am a horrible navigator, but getting lost doesn't upset me in the least. I tend to take the same routes over and over so I *don't* get lost, but occasionally I like to go explore. Also if I'm going somewhere new, I tend to make wrong turns and what not. Doesn't bother me in the least. 

My bad directions really bother my husband though. He gets very irritated. He has an amazing sense of direction, but nevertheless he lets me dictate which way to go, and when it turns out to be wrong he gets mad. And then I get upset that he let me navigate knowing I'm bad at it, knowing we were going the wrong way. I can't tell my left from my right either lol

So what functions are in play here?


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## Psychopomp (Oct 3, 2012)

ltldslwmn said:


> Haha! That makes perfect sense! I'm not as attached to my conclusions as Ni-thinkers are, it's more important to me that my reasoning (Ti) is correct than my conclusion (Ni), but I'm not as nonchalant about it as you are (with your Ne). Having Ni myself, I do hate to have a wrong conclusion, just not as much as I hate to have wrong reasoning. I hate admitting when I'm wrong, but I will sometimes suck it up and do it, but it's less painful if I can point out what misunderstanding of information my calculation was based on, so that others understand that my reasoning was correct (even if they're feelers and don't remotely care what happened or why and couldn't possibly understand how my ego is involved in a slight misinterpretation of information). In fact this just happened this weekend while I was navigating and driving us home from the mountains, and my ego is very, very much tied up in correct navigation (Ti-Se).


This is a great insight into my many ISTP friends. "Hate wrong conclusions but not as much as wrong reasoning" is so much my good ISTP friend. He will be much slower (more frustrated?) to admit a bad idea than I am. He can be quite stubborn actually and requires me to reason him out of the ideas he is set on or the conclusions he has married. I actually really love this about him... I laugh at all the times, usually involving explosives, guns, or a precipice of some kind, when everyone else was like "This was a bad idea.. we are totally going to die if we do this." ... and he is set on it "NO! IT WILL WORK!!" *looks around nervously* ".. I'm ...PRETTY... SURE IT'S GONNA WORK!!!"


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