# Differences between ENFP and ENTP?



## CassieBlue

I was just wondering what some of the differences of Enfp and Entp were. I had always classified myself as a Enfp, but after more tests showing up as Entp, I'm just not quite sure. So, I was wondering if some of you lovely people on here could tell me some of the characteristics of an Enfp and an Entp; as I would rather not spill out my whole life story for a thread that will probably only get like, 2 replies. Merci~!


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## TemptedFate

Well, let's see an ENTP's cognitive functions are Ne, Ti, Fe, Si, Ni, Te, Fi, Se whereas an ENFP's cognitive functions are Ne, Fi, Te, Si, Ni, Fe, Ti, Se. So, both use extraverted intuition as their main function. ENFPs auxiliary function is Fi. Fi holds very strong moral values, they have very high opinions of how things should be, they are very individual, they do not conform, they tune into a person very quickly looking for similar values, and they make judgements constantly whether things coincide with their values or not.
The tertiary function of ENFPs is Te. Te is all about organizing and categorizing ideas or things, they see the logical consequences of their actions, it allows us to compartmentalize in order to get things done, these people are usually very good at structuring essays or ideas, they're very step by step oriented.

The auxiliary function of ENTPs is Ti. Introverted thinkers are very good at problem solving and analysis. They can read through something and notice all of the logical inconsistencies that don't coincide with the original framework. They're very good at analyzing ideas and things or taking them apart to figure out how they work. They are constantly looking for the ways to solve something. 
The tertiary function of ENTPs is Fe which is completely different from Fi. Fe is about conformity, pleasing others, self-sacrifice, getting along with the group, fitting in, helping others, they like to relate and connect with other people, and they're very good at generally "knowing" what people need. 

So, if you actually analyze it by the functions they are quite different. Also, your tertiary functions are used a lot less often than your dominant and auxiliary functions, but are still recognizable in your behavior. Which set most matches yourself?


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## Dark Romantic

CassieBlue said:


> I was just wondering what some of the differences of Enfp and Entp were. I had always classified myself as a Enfp, but after more tests showing up as Entp, I'm just not quite sure. So, I was wondering if some of you lovely people on here could tell me some of the characteristics of an Enfp and an Entp


Well, since I respond well to flattery... I'll humor you. :wink:

The clearest way to tell the difference between the two is in looking at Ti vs. Fi. Both are big-idea people that have very little patience with doing things just because they've always been done a certain way. The difference is, ENTPs tend to internalize the logic of a given system; so, we accept and reject the importance of ideas based on how accurate and logically consistent they are, according to the logical principles chosen by the ENTP in question. ENFPs have the same process, but they evaluate things based on how they fit in with the ethical framework chosen by the ENFP in question.

ENTP: "I don't like this idea; I won't go along with it, because it violates X, Y, Z logical rules"
ENFP: "I don't like this idea; I won't go along with it, because it violates X, Y, Z ethical rules"

Now, either type can like logical consistency or ethics, but the difference is, ENTPs primarily process things with their inner logical framework, and ethics play a much smaller role in whether they accept or reject a given idea. ENFPs, on the other hand, primarily process things with their inner value system (which may or may not line up with everyone else's), and reject or accept ideas based on how they line up with said value system; the logic of it plays less of a part in whether or not the ENFP would consider it a good idea.

The tertiary function in ENTPs (I'm just going to explain tertary Fe, since I'm less familiar with how tertiary Te manifests itself in ENFPs) basically translates into an awareness of how their statements and ideas will affect other people, in an emotional sense. So, this can translate into heightened emotional sensitivity and/or heightened manipulative skills (generally, the latter develop before the former). It also leads to a tendency for ENTPs to like provoking reactions in others, and we sometimes come off as a bit narcissistic.

So, to summarize, with an ENTP, you have someone who's analytical, incisive, and becomes more socially aware and charming as they grow older. With an ENFP, you have someone who's value-oriented, personally convicted, and becomes more pragmatic and clear-minded as they grow older.



> as I would rather not spill out my whole life story for a thread that will probably only get like, 2 replies. Merci~!


Oh, you seriously underestimated how much people like typing others around here (myself included)...


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## CassieBlue

@TemptedFate


> So, if you actually analyze it by the functions they are quite different. Also, your tertiary functions are used a lot less often than your dominant and auxiliary functions, but are still recognizable in your behavior. Which set most matches yourself?


What if I can see myself as both? I take things apart to see how they work, and know what people would need or want, and analyze things like an ENTP would, but I also have the very high morals and make judgement with them like of that an ENFP possesses. Maybe, I'll forever be just a ENxP. 


@Dark Romantic


> So, to summarize, with an ENTP, you have someone who's analytical, incisive, and becomes more socially aware and charming as they grow older. With an ENFP, you have someone who's value-oriented, personally convicted, and becomes more pragmatic and clear-minded as they grow older.


What about a person who has these traits equally? I'd say I analyze what all's going on all around me, while staying Value-oriented? And so on. :0. Gosh, I just fail at life. xD.



> Oh, you seriously underestimated how much people like typing others around here (myself included)...


Maybe, I'll post stuff then... Maybe. C:

YAY! First time using quotes on here, Hopefully I used them properly. xD


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## MuChApArAdOx

Wow, great responses from the ENTP's. You bascially said everything i would have said. I don't know how easy it is to tell these types apart. At a glance, in communication it will be hard, especially if the ENFP in question has a well developed Te. We both lead with Ne, and as it was mentioned ENFP use Fi, ENTP, Ti. These two functions can actually look similiar also. They're both subjective, and the user will hold on very strongly to what they believe whether it be logical or ethical. For me it comes down to Fe vs Fi. This is the easiest way for me to see the difference between these two types. Since my Fi is so strong compared to my Fe which is basically non existent, this is how i know i'm not ENTP. If you can relate with the Fe in an ENTP, you're probably not an ENFP. Fe/Fi are polar opposite, if you study the functions and how they operate, the difference will become obvious and clear. Good luck, lots of information online if you do some research.


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## TemptedFate

MuChApArAdOx said:


> Wow, great responses from the ENTP's. You bascially said everything i would have said. I don't know how easy it is to tell these types apart. At a glance, in communication it will be hard, especially if the ENFP in question has a well developed Te. We both lead with Ne, and as it was mentioned ENFP use Fi, ENTP, Ti. These two functions can actually look similiar also. They're both subjective, and the user will hold on very strongly to what they believe whether it be logical or ethical. For me it comes down to Fe vs Fi. This is the easiest way for me to see the difference between these two types. Since my Fi is so strong compared to my Fe which is basically non existent, this is how i know i'm not ENTP. If you can relate with the Fe in an ENTP, you're probably not an ENFP. Fe/Fi are polar opposite, if you study the functions and how they operate, the difference will become obvious and clear. Good luck, lots of information online if you do some research.


 This is almost exactly what I was just about to add on ! The main questions is, if you were in a group would you rather stick with what you believe in or conform to make everyone else happy? One is all about remaining true to yourself while the other is about making other people happy; they are complete opposites from one another.


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## Dark Romantic

TemptedFate said:


> This is almost exactly what I was just about to add on ! The main questions is, if you were in a group would you rather stick with what you believe in or conform to make everyone else happy? One is all about remaining true to yourself while the other is about making other people happy; they are complete opposites from one another.


Mmm... I wouldn't put it like that. Fe doesn't mean conformity to the moral beliefs of the masses (otherwise, you wouldn't see any INFJs capable of holding an independent moral stance), it means that your idea of what's morally valid has an external focus, not an internal one. Fe would look at an action and judge it based mainly how it affected others, how much suffering it caused, how much joy and/or improvement came about as a result, etc. while Fi would make the same judgment based on their internal system of right vs not right. ENxPs in general are huge non-conformists.


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## Dark Romantic

CassieBlue said:


> @TemptedFate
> 
> What if I can see myself as both? I take things apart to see how they work, and know what people would need or want, and analyze things like an ENTP would, but I also have the very high morals and make judgement with them like of that an ENFP possesses. Maybe, I'll forever be just a ENxP.


Do your morals have an internal focus (meaning, you base the moral value of a given action on how it relates to your feelings on it), or is it an external one (where you base it on how it affects others)? Are you analyzing things so that they make logical sense in a closed system, or is application and the result the main focus (so, are you concerned with designing things so that they're internally consistent, or are you more concerned with making sure things are running smoothly, and that the bottom line is being served?)


> What about a person who has these traits equally? I'd say I analyze what all's going on all around me, while staying Value-oriented? And so on. :0. Gosh, I just fail at life.


Well, everyone learns both lessons. The question is, have you gone from being colder, more detached, and less in-touch with the people around you, to becoming warmer, more engaging, and learning how to relate more empathetically to others? Or, have you gone from being incredibly idealistic, seeing the world largely through a lens of moral potential (saying things like "if people were like this and this, the world would be an awesome place to live!"), and often out of touch with reality, to being more grounded, practical, and realistic?

I know you can see how you've done both (damn Ne), but pick the one which resonates the deepest, or the one which makes the most sense.


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## Sign of the Times

CassieBlue said:


> What about a person who has these traits equally? I'd say I analyze what all's going on all around me, while staying Value-oriented? And so on. :0. Gosh, I just fail at life. xD.


Hi, I'm an ENFP and am married to an ENTP so I have some close contact to the differences between these two types. I would also focus on whether you prefer Ti versus Fi. One thing that I would say can be a good outside indicator of your preference between the two is if you examine what your deepest ambitions and ideals are. In your dreams how would you like to change the world? What kinds of goals would drive you until your dying day? In other words, what is your subjective, emotional reaction toward using Ti vs using Fi in situations where you have an option and are not compelled by the circumstances to use one or the other? 

My husband's ambitions are more to do with the nature and functioning of overarching systems and frameworks and devising these frameworks. It is big-picture thinking but in an impersonal way, the big picture above the individual although it would benefit the individual. He finds that kind of thing really interesting and is creative in that direction.

In contrast, I as an ENFP, although I can apply my brain in that way if I have to, it is too dry for me. It is not inspiring. I am more ambitious in the realm of Fi. I am interested in the big picture but in the internal, subjective world of people, not the overarching external frameworks wherein they exist. I am interested in the frameworks that govern the internal experience. I enjoy connecting to those internal worlds in others and would find it more satisfying to have an impact on that level rather than on the external level. I think for an ENTP, having to practically deal with the subjective side of individual people's reality and feelings would be really exhausting.


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## DonnyP

Hi, I'm a newbie, completely new and trying to take this all in. When I was 19, I took the MB for an employment placement program, it was quite extensive and I scored ENTP. Over the years, I've retaken the test and gotten different results, from INTP to ENFP to most recently doing a 144 question test on similarminds.com.

Here's what I scored:

Extroverted (E) 58.82% Introverted (I) 41.18%
Intuitive (N) 57.89% Sensing (S) 42.11%
Thinking (T) 51.22% Feeling (F) 48.78%
Perceiving (P) 55.88% Judging (J) 44.12%

As you can see, my Thinking and Feeling are so literally close, I don't know what to make of it. Based on the early responses to this thread, I would say I feel more ENTP, but then there's more: I've been diagnosed as bipolar, I'm Aquarius, and I'm an only-child. So could I be a through-and-through ENTP with the bipolar sensitivity to the outside world, or am I even bipolar or just misdiagnosed in general? I am extremely sensitive, and people who barely know me question my sexuality because of my comfort with admitting liking things like pop music or reality TV or not playing sports...

I'd really appreciate some input and I do believe you guys have a lot of great points, so thanks a lot for adding to the knowledge-base with call the internet!


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## LibertyPrime

TemptedFate said:


> Well, let's see an ENTP's cognitive functions are Ne, Ti, Fe, Si, Ni, Te, Fi, Se whereas an ENFP's cognitive functions are Ne, Fi, Te, Si, Ni, Fe, Ti, Se. So, both use extraverted intuition as their main function. ENFPs auxiliary function is Fi. Fi holds very strong moral values, they have very high opinions of how things should be, they are very individual, they do not conform, they tune into a person very quickly looking for similar values, and they make judgements constantly whether things coincide with their values or not.
> The tertiary function of ENFPs is Te. Te is all about organizing and categorizing ideas or things, they see the logical consequences of their actions, it allows us to compartmentalize in order to get things done, these people are usually very good at structuring essays or ideas, they're very step by step oriented.
> 
> The auxiliary function of ENTPs is Ti. Introverted thinkers are very good at problem solving and analysis. They can read through something and notice all of the logical inconsistencies that don't coincide with the original framework. They're very good at analyzing ideas and things or taking them apart to figure out how they work. They are constantly looking for the ways to solve something.
> The tertiary function of ENTPs is Fe which is completely different from Fi. Fe is about conformity, pleasing others, self-sacrifice, getting along with the group, fitting in, helping others, they like to relate and connect with other people, and they're very good at generally "knowing" what people need.
> 
> So, if you actually analyze it by the functions they are quite different. Also, your tertiary functions are used a lot less often than your dominant and auxiliary functions, but are still recognizable in your behavior. Which set most matches yourself?


.......I can relate to both...what now?

According to what @Sign of the Times said I'd be ENFP, however I'm too damaged to be considered extroverted in the classical sene. (aka social)


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## cyamitide

you can try this thinking styles survey


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## RaidenPrime

Okay, here's my example...

Say someone wants to buy marijuana, but ends up getting it from a dealer. An ENTP (this is also what I would personally say) might say "Dude, you don't have your marijuana card to get that shit legally", but not really care about the idea that the person is smoking pot. 

An ENFP might ask why you are smoking pot, if there's any underlying issues, and that getting marijuana from dealers is dangerous. They might try to inspire/make the person happy so they don't resort to smoking marijuana.


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## CassieBlue

Well the thread came back to life, so I decided to do a quick thing. I think I've decided to consider myself as a ENTP, but here's a mini questionaire... Just as a make sure. 

STOLEN FROM http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/99679-whats-my-type-questionnaire.html

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it.









They look like a long "Great wall of China"-esque line of High heeled shoe statues! xD. It makes me think of the Easter Island type kind, though it could just be cause of the fact that they're statues. . I like the photographer's use of a vanishing point and the contrast in shades of light. 

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
My first thought would be "Oh F***, we're screwed. Then again, my car ALWAYS breaks down, so I'd probably just call my dad. I think I'd say "This blows," but try to remain calm on the outside while thinking intensely on what went wrong and what the best solution would be.

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?

It depends on the driver, some people I trust enough to know that they will NOT drink. Otherwise, I'd either make an excuse like, "I work in the morning," or else I'd just drive back afterwards, cause I can trust myself not to drink. 

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?

I can speak freely with my friends. I will say my views, and we will get ourselves into a mini debate which afterwards results in us getting so off topic that we both laugh our asses off. As long as they see what I'm trying to say, and I can get my opinion across, who cares what they think?

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?

I probably would get sorta upset, depending on the thing. I'd probably sit and think about it, and also question people I know to see what they think about the subject. 

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?

Spontaneity. I get bored of EVERYTHING really easily. So, if I get bored of everything, I just... won't do much and won't even TRY. I get annoyed, and frustrated, and I just don't even do what it was that I was supposed to. 
Also, I find being unique to be important. I don't want to just follow the crowd, I want to stand out and shine. I want to see what all is going on in the world, and following the crowd will just... bore me. xD.

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?

a.) The fact that I can look past everyone's faults and see there good traits. I don't really have anyone I hate because I can find good or interesting qualities that I admire in everyone. 
b.) I wish I was more outgoing, I mean, I can talk to EVERYONE. I can sit there and have conversations with random strangers, but I don't get very personal with too many people so I just feel sort of... Awkward? Like sometimes, I have problems starting conversations. I'm getting better though. 

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?

Oh maaan, It depends on the situation. Like, if it were I don't think this is a good idea or this will end badly, I WILL NOT DO IT. I do not want to get involved with things that will ruin my life, or make me feel horrible. 

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?

a.) I get REALLY energized when I talk to interesting people. Since I get bored of things easily, that includes people, so if I have a fun conversation with someone new, or a new conversation with someone who I know but don't have as good of talks with, I get REALLY excited. 
b.) Other than hot weather, which.... takes all my energy.. Dx. I'd have to say dealing with people who get OVERLY EMOTIONAL. I just get so frustrated. Also, people trying to make romantic advances even though I CLEARLY say I have no interest in settling down but they're very persistent about it. They wear me down and make me frustrated. 

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?

I try not to show any negative feelings, or show my frustration. I have too much pride. I will not show if I do not know how to do something, unless I really have to. I won't let people see me in a panic or moody. I will hide all those feelings until I'm by myself. Then, I will vent. :0.

Soooo. In my opinion I sound quite ENTP, but... Just to make sure.


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## CassieBlue

But thank you guys for the wonderful comments.


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## Entropic

CassieBlue said:


> @_TemptedFate_
> 
> What if I can see myself as both? I take things apart to see how they work, and know what people would need or want, and analyze things like an ENTP would, but I also have the very high morals and make judgement with them like of that an ENFP possesses. Maybe, I'll forever be just a ENxP.
> 
> 
> @_Dark Romantic_
> 
> 
> What about a person who has these traits equally? I'd say I analyze what all's going on all around me, while staying Value-oriented? And so on. :0. Gosh, I just fail at life. xD.
> 
> 
> Maybe, I'll post stuff then... Maybe. C:
> 
> YAY! First time using quotes on here, Hopefully I used them properly. xD


I see Fi in you, not Ti. This thread and every post you make says FiTe.


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## CassieBlue

LeaT said:


> I see Fi in you, not Ti. This thread and every post you make says FiTe.


Hmm. They do? I'm gonna have to look into all this. I'm a noob with Mbti. :0.


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## Entropic

CassieBlue said:


> Hmm. They do? I'm gonna have to look into all this. I'm a noob with Mbti. :0.


You confuse your tert Te for Ti but they are nothing alike. You will understand why right away if you visit the ENTP subforums. You're way too happy-go-round lucky for an ENTP, even with a strong Fe. 

That you made this thread to seek out what you think are the educated opinions of others (and emphasis is on educated) points towards tert Te. ENTPs with Fe... they just kinda don't care about that. They trust their own Ti judgements.


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## CassieBlue

LeaT said:


> You confuse your tert Te for Ti but they are nothing alike. You will understand why right away if you visit the ENTP subforums. You're way too happy-go-round lucky for an ENTP, even with a strong Fe.
> 
> That you made this thread to seek out what you think are the educated opinions of others (and emphasis is on educated) points towards tert Te. ENTPs with Fe... they just kinda don't care about that. They trust their own Ti judgements.


I do see what you mean with that. But one of things that threw me off is that on the ENFP forum, is just full of talking about feelings, and emotions. And, those are things that I do not really like talking about, and also get bored of. :0. While the ENTP forum is more of sharp sarcastic humour, which I do have more of.


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## pinkrasputin

omniblade said:


> Okay, here's my example...
> 
> Say someone wants to buy marijuana, but ends up getting it from a dealer. An ENTP (this is also what I would personally say) might say "Dude, you don't have your marijuana card to get that shit legally", but not really care about the idea that the person is smoking pot.
> 
> An ENFP might ask why you are smoking pot, if there's any underlying issues, and that getting marijuana from dealers is dangerous. They might try to inspire/make the person happy so they don't resort to smoking marijuana.


This, fucking this!!

I seriously think examining our tertiary functions is a load of bull crap. None of us use that well. If you relate to Fe, you just might be a INFJ, ENFJ, ISFJ, or ESFJ.

I am an ENFP mother of an ENTP daughter. Our biggest difference is in our auxiliary functions. We understand each other's creative minds greatly until for me, it becomes anything about ethics. I see my daughter as lacking any morals. She is an immature ENTP. But even as a very young ENTP, she is in no way a people pleaser. In fact, even her schmoozing skills are still retarded. She sees everything as a problem to solve _her way_ I see everything in regards to individual happiness.

Ti doesn't understand other people's logical inconsistencies. ENTPs are not basing logically consistencies this on some objective consensual standard like Te does. Instead, the Ti user judges another person's logic based on _that person's own logic_. It's like "Look, you say this, but look now what you say..." This is huge for them. They can spend hours on this. Lol. 

Today I asked my ENTP daughter what she thought was the biggest difference between Ti and Te, and she replied "Ti is relative". 

Seriously, would you solve a problem without regard to how it would make others feel? And if you do take into consideration how someone else might feel, is it to only understand how you might better approach them in order to get what you still want? If so, then you might be an ENTP.

If you really want to understand Ti, look at the problem solving skills of ESTPs, ISTPs, and INTPs. You will see a commonality. It's hard to not notice this. It is very different from Fi and incredibly different from Te.


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## Entropic

CassieBlue said:


> I do see what you mean with that. But one of things that threw me off is that on the ENFP forum, is just full of talking about feelings, and emotions. And, those are things that I do not really like talking about, and also get bored of. :0. While the ENTP forum is more of sharp sarcastic humour, which I do have more of.


Not all ENFPs enjoy discussing emotions. Fi is a very personal thing so Fi users might necessarily not want to share their emotions. You are definitely Fi aux to me though. Not seeing an ounce of Ti in you. If you want to get a true feel of what Ti is like, check out the Ti doms like INTPs and ISTPs.


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## Entropic

pinkrasputin said:


> Ti doesn't understand other people's logical inconsistencies. ENTPs are not basing logically consistencies this on some objective consensual standard like Te does. Instead, the Ti user judges another person's logic based on _that person's own logic_. It's like "Look, you say this, but look now what you say..." This is huge for them. They can spend hours on this. Lol.
> .


Unfortunately, yes


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## Andre

If you fantasize about yourself being an actor or a rockstar then you are an enfp. Like once a week. If you give great life advice then you're an enfp. At least you give great advice
if you think


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## Jabberbroccoli

> Ti doesn't understand other people's logical inconsistencies. ENTPs are not basing logically consistencies this on some objective consensual standard like Te does. Instead, the Ti user judges another person's logic based on _that person's own logic. It's like "Look, you say this, but look now what you say..." This is huge for them. They can spend hours on this. Lol.
> 
> Today I asked my ENTP daughter what she thought was the biggest difference between Ti and Te, and she replied "Ti is relative". _


1. Ti is made to understand other peoples' logical inconsistencies.

3. Stuff I'm too tired to write.

2. Is your daughter high school age and single?


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## Rafiki

Do me do Me!


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## IDontThinkSo

Do him do him !


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## Swordsman of Mana

CassieBlue said:


> I was just wondering what some of the differences of Enfp and Entp were. I had always classified myself as a Enfp, but after more tests showing up as Entp, I'm just not quite sure. So, I was wondering if some of you lovely people on here could tell me some of the characteristics of an Enfp and an Entp; as I would rather not spill out my whole life story for a thread that will probably only get like, 2 replies. Merci~!


- ENFPs are passionate and fiery; ENTPs are detached
- ENFPs are honest to a fault and often get into trouble for expressing themselves at the wrong time (Fi); ENTPs are often superficially charming in order to get people to do what they want (Fe)
- ENFPs have strong convictions and will often do very stupid things for them (Fi) they may be otherwise rational people, but they will throw logic out the window when it gets in the way of their beliefs; ENTPs typically view this as dogmatic and ignorant (Ti)
- ENTPs pursue knowledge/reason as an absolute (Ti); ENFPs pursue knowledge/reason within the context of a goal (Te)
- for an ENFP, the purpose of a debate is to discuss the issue, exchange information and agree on the best solution based on the information (Te); for an ENTP, the goal of a debate is to poke holes in the opponent's logic and win a battle of "my logic is superior to your logic" (also Ne/Ti)
- ENFPs spend copious amounts of time reflecting on their feelings (Fi); ENTPs, when younger at least, are less comfortable with personal matters because their preference is to view themselves as detached from everything (Ts in general, especially NTs)


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## pinkrasputin

As my ENTP daughter is emerging into adulthood- I notice the biggest discrepancy between her ENTP self and my ENFP self is that she is not a people pleaser _at all._. I expect her to function this way and I am let down every time. We both see larger issues and can even talk in secret cryptic code, but her failure to perform regardless of other people's feelings boggles my mind.

Many ENFPs will tell you that we are "independent"or march "to the beat of our own drummer", but those very statements prove our awareness of others and how we fit in as a whole. It seems to me ENTPs don't give as much fuck, unless it's on a competitive level. THAT's when the other is more likely taken into consideration. But it's not on an emotional level. 

This is my perception of a very young ENTP. Obviously anyone can self reflect and improve on their weaknesses. There have been quite a few more developed ENTPs on this forum who have connected to me on a more empathetic level. Or at least _sympathetic (Fe)_ level. 

It is my own understanding that ENFPs deep down- DO care about being perceived negatively more than ENTPs do. My ENTP daughter is quite alright with being perceived like an asshole.


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## Swordsman of Mana

pinkrasputin said:


> As my ENTP daughter is emerging into adulthood- I notice the biggest discrepancy between her ENTP self and my ENFP self is that she is not a people pleaser _at all._. I expect her to function this way and I am let down every time. We both see larger issues and can even talk in secret cryptic code, but her failure to perform regardless of other people's feelings boggles my mind.


perhaps this is because you're a 2w3 and 9w1 fixed 6w7 while she is a 7w8/8w7?
I'm not a people pleaser at all



> Many ENFPs will tell you that we are "independent"or march "to the beat of our own drummer", but those very statements prove our awareness of others and how we fit in as a whole. It seems to me ENTPs don't give as much fuck, unless it's on a competitive level. THAT's when the other is more likely taken into consideration. But it's not on an emotional level.


I think it's more that ENFPs are more internally sensitive rather than externally seeking approval. we guard our inner world and I think what you're referring to is the fact that we are highly aware of who we can/can't trust with to share it with



> This is my perception of a very young ENTP. Obviously anyone can self reflect and improve on their weaknesses. There have been quite a few more developed ENTPs on this forum who have connected to me on a more empathetic level. Or at least _sympathetic (Fe)_ level.


I don't view what you said earlier as a weakness



> It is my own understanding that ENFPs deep down- DO care about being perceived negatively more than ENTPs do. My ENTP daughter is quite alright with being perceived like an asshole.


by those close to them: yes
by everyone else: no


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## pinkrasputin

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I don't view what you said earlier as a weakness


I was speaking in regard to MBTI and strength of preferences. For instance, my daughter's use of Fi is not as strong as mine. Even her use of Fe is not that strong, yet should develop over time. If someone said my Se was weaker or even my use of Te was not as dominant as my Ne, it wouldn't bother me. I don't perceive myself as a weak person. But I do get strengths in terms of MBTI preferences. That's usually why I seek out other types to encourage and strengthen those areas in which I'm "weak"- meaning, it's not my dominant preference.


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## Doc Dangerstein

There is still a probability I am ENFP, I have tested both types in the past and on function tests where my 3rd option is usually INTP. Some polemics are due. I did write the comments as if they are ENTP traits. They are what I observed in myself, and possibly other ENTPs on PerC. Bolded text is Swordsman_of_Mana's ...

*- ENFPs are passionate and fiery; ENTPs are detached*


Not true; we're passionate and fiery about different things. I'm both patient and temperamental and will completely lose it whenever my threshold gets crossed. I started a thread on ENTP values and our equivalent to the Te slap; the idea of the Fe rage has been proposed which I'm still pondering over in my head. Read some of the responsed and you might be surprised. I started the thread originally because I so have certain ethical boundaries which take me from zero to Clockwork Orange in a blink of eye. 


Want to see ENTP passion and fire? Get us talking about things we're really into. Whenever I want to learn something, do something or just need to get something done that I deem of remarkable importance I will slip into my obsessive more and just do it. I did this with numerous things in the past.


*- ENTPs pursue knowledge/reason as an absolute (Ti); ENFPs pursue knowledge/reason within the context of a goal (Te)*


Very true. We can be practical but wanting to understand everything we can is a great pleasure of ours. At least, what we're interested in. Application is an added bonus; I understand the pragmatist's mindset but it's not the essence of my existence.


*- ENFPs spend copious amounts of time reflecting on their feelings (Fi); ENTPs, when younger at least, are less comfortable with personal matters because their preference is to view themselves as detached from everything (Ts in general, especially NTs)*


Personal emotions are not as important to me as interpersonal emotions. I like to know how I feel towards someone as a whole, be it love, adoration, indifference or hatred. It's also important to me that the people I care for show the same standard to others. My focus is on my thoughts rather then my feelings; I do have them but I don't always know how to describe what I feel, or don't even know I had that feeling at all.


*- for an ENFP, the purpose of a debate is to discuss the issue, exchange information and agree on the best solution based on the information (Te); for an ENTP, the goal of a debate is to poke holes in the opponent's logic and win a battle of "my logic is superior to your logic" (also Ne/Ti)*


Not always, some do but I don't. There's argument and there's debate. One is personal, the other is an exploration of an idea, testing it's boundaries -- often times, I can't be bothered to keep score. The idea is key. That said, everyone can be an egoist regardless of type.


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## IDontThinkSo

Depending on whether Perceivers are mostly thinkers, feelers or introverted judgers, their main goals vary.

fI : pertinence > pleasure > coherence > interest. "it feels good to be pertinent, plus it's coherent"
Fi : pleasure > pertinence > interest > coherence. "it's pertinent to trust my feelings, plus it serves my interest"
tI : pertinence > coherence > pleasure > interest. "it's coherent to be pertinent, plus it feels good"
Ti : coherence > pertinence > interest > pleasure. "it's pertinent to be coherent, plus it serves my interest"

A part or ENFPs and ENTPs are genuinely striving for the ultimate best reason. The other part is too F or T centered and prone to extroverted judgments.


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## Rafiki

do both imagine conversations with others? sometimes there's just an assumed/implied listener and it doesn't matter if i'm looking at nothing, i'll talk and answer as if im all the people. 

also, making a table-top war game from different sets of figurines (star wars, d&d), making your own monsters/creeps, and fantasy world- is that more likely from the Ti type or that's just a more Ne kinda thing.


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## Rafiki

Can people talk more about Ti in a situation where Fi would say something else?

Can we have ENFP and ENTP in different situations?


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## haffa

DonnyP said:


> I would say I feel more ENTP, but then there's more: I've been diagnosed as bipolar, I'm Aquarius, and I'm an only-child. So could I be a through-and-through ENTP with the bipolar sensitivity to the outside world, or am I even bipolar or just misdiagnosed in general? I am extremely sensitive


Maybe you are not bipolar but just HSP (Highly Sensitive Person). That is what it turns out to be for a lot of people diagnosed bipolar. The only surefire way to figure it out is to have a brainscan, but a good start is to go to the HSP website and take the "am I HSP" test


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## Glory

The ENTPs seem more interested in general ideas of concepts, while ENFPs are more obsessed with the components of them. xNFPs seem really averse to 'generalisations'... in general.


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## LunaIscariot

When i first got into MBTI a few years ago, i discovered i had an unusual amount of Ne dominant friends and family (ENFP's & ENTP's), so all of this information is firsthand experience, and naturally, copious amounts of research. Hope it helps! 

*THE SIMILARITIES*;
-both are extremely creative, humorous, friendly, fun, smart, charismatic, spontaneous, curious, communicative, easygoing and relaxed with hands down the best people skills! Especially the ENFP, people just _like_ them, which i think has to do with the fact that people can sense that the ENFP *genuinely* loves to relate, connect and network with all walks of people. This is the type that when your standing in line at the grocery store or the movies and they strike up a conversation with anyone and everyone thanks to their amazing communication skills. It can be hard to tell them apart upon first meeting one (especially the ENTP woman), particularly when the ENTP is turning on the Fe charm/tact, but the ENTP has a harder edge and usually comes across as arrogant/cocky or a smart ass, or both  but can definitely give the ENFP a run for their money. 

-Both types are extremely open, think on their feet, don't get embarrassed easily, optimistic, they are comfortable in their own skin and are extremely open-minded and have a live and let live attitude. Both love music and can probably play an instrument, usually the drums/ guitar. 

-Ne's dominant's can stay calm in high stress, tense situation and the ENTP especially can be ridiculously calm (Ti= more blasé, detached nature), and make a joke out of it 10 minutes later lol

*THE DIFFERENCES*
-Both types are quick witted and love to laugh and joke around, but the ENTP's humour is often more inappropriate, sharp, and has more of a biting or testy nature; they want to see how you'll react and if you will retaliate which will inform the way they approach you from then on. My best friend is ENTP, were inseparable and i love him to shreds, but he can be a right prick when he wants to be, not necessarily to me, but other people he doesn't really know or like. ENFP's have an innate need to be liked, which causes them to make an extra effort to be nice and not rub anyone the wrong way, even someone they don't particularity like.

-ENTP is also in my opinion one of the most introverted extroverts, meaning that they like to socialize, explore and go out and do things, but they also really enjoy their alone time and don't necessarily need _people_ (Ti vs Fi) to satisfy their Ne. I feel that this is because for an ENTP, being "nice" all the time and engaging with people via Fe in a way they won't push people away is very draining for them and feels stilted; being an abrasive smart-ass is sort of their default mode, and most people don't like that which makes an ENTP feel rather alienated because they can't be themselves. **don't take an ENTP's prodding seriously! they usually don't mean anything hateful or sinister by it! their usually just bored, and would appreciate it if you threw in a jab of your own! don't worry they can take it lol**

-Besides the obvious similarity of Extroverted Intuition/Introverted Sensing, these two types are of a completely different temperament! ENTP is very logical; (it _HAS_ to make sense! a common ENTP complaint is "that's fucking stupid! it makes no logical sense!?", analytical, and a lot more focused in their thinking compared to the whimsical, head in the clouds, idealistic ENFP. 

-An ENTP will often generate ideas and think about things that don't necessarily have a practical application or serve an objective purpose (Ti vs Te); although they can absolutely do this if they want, it's just that they do this for amusement more often than an ENFP would. This is also the reason an ENTP can start a debate, just for the exchange of idea's/logic for logic's sake (Ne/Ti). For example my ENFP (Te) dad always talks about what he would do if he won the lottery; where he would go, what he would buy, how he would invest his money... very practical application of his ideas (Ne/Te). 

-ENTP's for the guys are usually more into their appearance and have a vanity streak, they usually have a polished/suave/professional look (suits/dress shirts, hair gel) or a sort of zany, just rolled out of bed look (Russell Brand). ENFP woman usually have amazing style (think Gwen Stefani) that's very unique and that expressive's their individuality. 


ENTP's = Russell Brand, Howard Stern, Jennifer Lawrence, Chelsea Handler, Ellen Degeneres, Ricky Gervais, Kevin O'Leary
ENFP= Jimmy Fallon, Drew Barrymore, Robin Williams, Gwen Stefani, Adam Levine, Jennifer Aniston


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## TimeIsExpensive

The first type envisions itself like a crusader for a greater cause, whereas the second one would just throw the previous guy to the wolves for the sake of seeing what's going to happen.


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## Ermenegildo

CassieBlue said:


> you lovely people on here


If 'lovely' is irony then ENTP.



CassieBlue said:


> as I would rather not spill out my whole life story for a thread that will probably only get like, 2 replies.


How many replies does your 'whole life story' cost? How many replies are needed to determine the type in this subforum?

ENTP if you have no intention whatsoever to 'spill out' your 'whole life story' but use this excuse to get away with writing just a few lines. 



> 03-22-2012*09:49 AM


If you didn't find the five MBTI Thinking/Feeling facets in the last three years your type is probably not ENTP. 

http://personalitycafe.com/myers-briggs-forum/222794-descriptions-mbti-step-ii-facets.html



> What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
> 
> I probably would get sorta upset, depending on the thing. I'd probably sit and think about it, and also question people I know to see what they think about the subject.


Not ENTP. We love getting flak! 



> I can find good or interesting qualities that I admire in everyone.


ENTP only if this is irony. 



> I try not to show any negative feelings, or show my frustration. I have too much pride. I will not show if I do not know how to do something, unless I really have to. I won't let people see me in a panic or moody. I will hide all those feelings until I'm by myself. Then, I will vent.


Not ENTP.



> I had always classified myself as a Enfp


An excellent idea. ENFP is such a lovely and versatile type, why do you want to enter the cold and cruel ENTP world? 



TimeIsExpensive said:


> The first type envisions itself like a crusader for a greater cause, whereas the second one would just throw the previous guy to the wolves for the sake of seeing what's going to happen.


Time isn't expensive for ENTPs, so we are often tempted to conduct human experiments. Please note that wolves are mammals who can die of hunger like us. My values? I like eye candy, so the more beautiful animal should survive, which is the wolf, of course. Animal films are so cruel to us, they never show a decent dinner at full length! Enough said.













pinkrasputin said:


> Ti doesn't understand other people's logical inconsistencies.





Jabberbroccoli said:


> Ti is made to understand other peoples' logical inconsistencies.





> ENTPs are not basing logically consistencies this on some objective consensual standard like Te does. Instead, the Ti user judges another person's logic based on _that person's own logic_. It's like "Look, you say this, but look now what you say..." This is huge for them. They can spend hours on this. Lol.


Wrong. They use the same standard, which is called *the law of non-contradiction (LNC):* 

*Contradiction

Aristotle on Non-contradiction

Aristotle's Logic*

Aristotle did a good job describing what NTPs do all the time, which is not fact-checking but contradiction-checking:



> *Robin Smith: Aristotle’s Logic*
> 
> *4.2 Affirmations, Denials, and Contradictions*
> 
> Aristotle takes some pains in _On Interpretation_ to argue that to every affirmation there corresponds exactly one denial such that that denial denies exactly what that affirmation affirms. The pair consisting of an affirmation and its corresponding denial is a *contradiction (antiphasis).*
> 
> *In general, Aristotle holds, exactly one member of any contradiction is true and one false: they cannot both be true, and they cannot both be false. *
> 
> *8.3 The Uses of Dialectic and Dialectical Argument*
> 
> An _art_ of dialectic will be useful wherever dialectical argument is useful. Aristotle mentions three such uses; each merits some comment.
> 
> 8.3.1 Gymnastic Dialectic
> 
> First, there appears to have been a form of stylized argumentative exchange practiced in the Academy in Aristotle’s time. The main evidence for this is simply Aristotle’s _Topics_, especially Book VIII, which makes frequent reference to rule-governed procedures, apparently taking it for granted that the audience will understand them. In these exchanges, one participant took the role of answerer, the other the role of questioner. The answerer began by asserting some proposition (a _thesis_: “position” or “acceptance”). The questioner then asked questions of the answerer in an attempt to secure concessions from which a *contradiction* could be deduced: that is, to *refute* (_elenchein_) the answerer’s position. The questioner was limited to questions that could be answered by yes or no; generally, the answerer could only respond with yes or no, though in some cases answers could object to the form of a question. Answerers might undertake to answer in accordance with the views of a particular type of person or a particular person (e.g. a famous philosopher), or they might answer according to their own beliefs. There appear to have been judges or scorekeepers for the process. Gymnastic dialectical contests were sometimes, as the name suggests, for the sake of exercise in developing argumentative skill, but they may also have been pursued as a part of a process of inquiry.
> 
> 8.3.2 Dialectic That Puts to the Test
> 
> Aristotle also mentions an “art of making trial”, or a variety of dialectical argument that “puts to the test” (the Greek word is the adjective _peirastikê_, in the feminine: such expressions often designate arts or skills, e.g. _rhêtorikê_, “the art of rhetoric”). Its function is to examine the claims of those who say they have some knowledge, and it can be practiced by someone who does not possess the knowledge in question. The examination is a matter of *refutation,* based on the principle that whoever knows a subject must have *consistent* beliefs about it: so, if you can show me that my beliefs about something lead to a *contradiction,* then you have shown that I do not have knowledge about it.
> 
> This is strongly reminiscent of Socrates’ style of interrogation, from which it is almost certainly descended. In fact, Aristotle often indicates that dialectical argument is by nature *refutative.*
> 
> 8.3.3 Dialectic and Philosophy
> 
> Dialectical refutation cannot of itself establish any proposition (except perhaps the proposition that some set of propositions is inconsistent). More to the point, though deducing a *contradiction* from my beliefs may show that they do not constitute knowledge, failure to deduce a contradiction from them is no proof that they are true. Not surprisingly, then, Aristotle often insists that “dialectic does not prove anything” and that the dialectical art is not some sort of universal knowledge.
> 
> In _Topics_ I.2, however, Aristotle says that the art of dialectic is useful in connection with “the philosophical sciences”. One reason he gives for this follows closely on the refutative function: if we have subjected our opinions (and the opinions of our fellows, and of the wise) to a thorough *refutative examination*, we will be in a much better position to judge what is most likely true and false. In fact, we find just such a procedure at the start of many of Aristotle’s treatises: an enumeration of the opinions current about the subject together with a compilation of “puzzles” raised by these opinions. Aristotle has a special term for this kind of review: a _diaporia_, a “puzzling through”. (Source: Link 3)


Just saying.


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## The Dude

CassieBlue said:


> I do see what you mean with that. But one of things that threw me off is that on the ENFP forum, is just full of talking about feelings, and emotions. And, those are things that I do not really like talking about, and also get bored of. :0. While the ENTP forum is more of sharp sarcastic humour, which I do have more of.


Yeah, most of us aren’t open books of emotion. I wouldn’t be shocked if a lot of these people are ENFJs. 

I was going back between the two of them for some time. From what I have read, 
TeFi: technical (impersonal) true/false assessments are set, so humane (personal) good/bad assessments must then be variable in deference.
FeTi: humane good/bad assessments are set, so technical true/false assessments must be variable, in deference to them.

They've also been expressed as:
TiFe: "I think, we feel"
FiTe: "I feel; we think"

Te/Fi: "Ordering Assessments"
Fe/Ti: "Aligning Asessments"


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## Kaizoku

posted wrong..


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## atruebluescreen

As mentioned by others, the main difference between ENFPs and ENTPs I've noticed is how they think of other people. ENFPs love people for people, they just want to know you. When they have your back, like when you're venting to them, they are _there for you_ 100%. ENTPs are more likely to think in terms of networking and social capital: while they may be very good at being engaged with the other person and being empathetic, it is more of a thing they consciously do--because of XYZ reason, they are there for you. It's not necessarily a nefarious reason, mind you--the reason could be that they like you and therefore they are there for you, or that they want to be a good person so they are there for you. But empathizing with you is not an end goal nor automatic. With ENFPs, often I admire how well they connect with other people, other times I wonder if they might be able to dial back the echo chamber a bit hehe.


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## atamagasuita

Enfps are really fuking good socially. Like they're gonna greet anyone even the strangers, babies


Imagine spongebob.


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