# Te and Ti in relationships.



## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Based on this experience I'm going to tell you the differences I discovered between Te and Ti. 

The example is my ESTP girlfriend (known as Voici Claire on this forum). She may not have her thinking preference as her first function preference but I've still noticed some interesting differences.

The obvious thing to talk about first was our reaction to the Myers Briggs theory itself. If it wasn't for her, I probably wouldn't have moved along and tried to learn more about it. Because I had no need to, which is a little Te emerging. Since most people on this forum weren't that interested in learning all the details of the theory there was no pressure on me, I only learned what I needed for this forum. She however, learned everything she could understand about it. She didn't see the point of knowing bits of it instead of all of it but I didn't look at it that way. I just thought knowing what I knew was enough. She wanted to understand the theory as much as she could and she didn't understand why she then knew more about it than me. People seem to think S stands for shallow, but no, once they have an introverted function in command or second command (as everyone does lol) you can have certain types of depth. Be it emotional or logical, intuitive or sensing once it's not pointed towards the world of materials and focused inward it's less likely to be "shallow". She taugh me this, too. That Te was concrete, focusing on reality and accepted logic, while Ti is focusing on inner logic and subjective logic. She also taught me that a Te user will more than likely get along with an Fi user vs a Ti user because Ti users use Ti and Fe toward the outer world to evaluate things, while Fi users use Fi and Te, functions we share in common. I never thought of it that way. I always thought "we're both Ts, communication should be easier". 

Some other Te vs Ti differences is that she wants to debate everything and I don't see the need to. I want to change the definitions of everything, she's quite rigid with definitions (Ni vs Ti) but she has no problem changing her argument (Ti) :dry:. Another thing is she takes information for granted. If a famous scientist, say, has a theory, I'll consider if t has credible facts supporting it. She'll consider it as if she was the expert scientist, ignoring the facts, adding in her own interpretations and then she'll disregard everything if something doesn't fit or if it doesn't fit into other things she considers logical. She's like a liberal who wants to change _everything_, fix everything, even if it isn't broken or if it doesn't need much improvement (some things are impossible to improve!), she completely takes what we know for granted. I know this can be useful and looking at what we know and questioning it can lead to something but often times, we really shouldn't take it for granted and it's a base for discovering new things. She just thinks the base isn't a good foundation or that there's always a problem with the foundation which is tedious.

Another difference is our approach to discussion like this. I make a statement, thinking I'm right and that she has to prove me wrong. She asks a rhetorical question to see if I try to answer it. 

When it comes to discussing moral things, if you're Te vs a Ti it's going to get complicated. I like to completely remove any idea we have of morality, question it all, and I definitely take what we know about spirtuality and ethics for granted because it's not my idea of what morality is. Seeing a trend? :wink: My Fe is my weakest function in this case though, it's her third or fourth highest. 

*Any other Te vs Ti differences in relationships you can add to this?* They're significant the ones I've noticed, but I don't have a lot of examples sorry. We usually avoid arguing unless it's about something in our lives and when making decisions our logic seems to be on the same wavelength so far. Like when it comes to what to spend money on, how to spend time, buying groceries, everyday stuff. 

Ni vs Se seems to be interesting, but not as interesting as Te vs Ti, so carry this investigation on!


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## amnorvend (May 16, 2010)

If you subscribe to Beebe's model, there's an interesting bit of interplay between the primary function and the demonic function (the shadow inferior function) of Ti and Te users. Te is very concerned with coming up with plans others can follow. When it's combined with demonic Fe (as it would be in an EXTJ), it takes no consideration as to whether anyone will actually want to follow them (including the Te users themselves).

To compound the problem, Ti users have demonic Fi which means they don't take their own internal desires into account when coming up with a plan.

The end result? The two people end up endlessly debating plans of action using poor logical arguments when the reality is that they just don't like each others' plans. Maddening!



> She's like a liberal who wants to change everything, fix everything, even if it isn't broken or if it doesn't need much improvement (some things are impossible to improve!),


One key thing that Ti excels at is questioning assumptions. People who use Te tend to build on society's logic, where Ti will lead a person to start at the very beginning. A lot of Ti users go into philosophy (what is knowledge? What is the meaning of life?) This can drive people who use Te nuts, but it is very good at detecting when Te is making an incorrect assumption. Remember, sometimes the foundation really is broken. Or sometimes the foundation hasn't been built yet. Or perhaps the Te user chose the wrong foundation.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

It is not really Te vs Ti differences but rather TiFe and TeFi since the two don't go apart. What I have noticed that TeFi and TiFe users seem to be sensitive to different types of humor. TiFe seems to be more responsive to something like irony and puns. TeFi seems to be more responsive to sarcasm, wit, satire. There is not very clear cut because you can also argue about what really constitutes these different types of humor, but if you venture into forums on TiFe and TeFi users there is definitely something different in their joking 'methods' and they will also seem take more to each other's jokes than jokes of the other TxFx type.


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## amnorvend (May 16, 2010)

vel said:


> It is not really Te vs Ti differences but rather TiFe and TeFi since the two don't go apart. What I have noticed that TeFi and TiFe users seem to be sensitive to different types of humor. TiFe seems to be more responsive to something like irony and puns. TeFi seems to be more responsive to sarcasm, wit, satire. There is not very clear cut because you can also argue about what really constitutes these different types of humor, but if you venture into forums on TiFe and TeFi users there is definitely something different in their joking 'methods' and they will also seem take more to each other's jokes than jokes of the other TxFx type.


I wonder if you could expand on this a bit. It's been a while since I've taken English, so I forget what the difference between irony, sarcasm, and satire is. Could you maybe give examples?


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

vel said:


> It is not really Te vs Ti differences but rather TiFe and TeFi since the two don't go apart. What I have noticed that TeFi and TiFe users seem to be sensitive to different types of humor. TiFe seems to be more responsive to something like irony and puns. TeFi seems to be more responsive to sarcasm, wit, satire. There is not very clear cut because you can also argue about what really constitutes these different types of humor, but if you venture into forums on TiFe and TeFi users there is definitely something different in their joking 'methods' and they will also seem take more to each other's jokes than jokes of the other TxFx type.


Well, then, logically, if I say Te vs Ti Fi and Fe follow, so I don't need to say TeFi vs TiFe.

I notice she treats life like a sitcom which I'm not a fan of.She always tries to make every situation funny and she mocks others a lot. It's mud flinging, having one-up on the other type of humour. She likes to come up with the best come backs and I'd say she's the witty, quick one. I don't agree that what you mentioned would fit either of our sense of humour. I find silly things and animals funny, but yes, satire.


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## rowingineden (Jun 23, 2010)

I would guess that:
Te - more likely to "research" sex and relationships (anatomy, technique, etc.)
Ti - more likely to conduct "experiments" to see what is effective in sex/relationships (oh, if I do THIS, it produces THIS result...)
Te - more likely to be satisfied with existing rules and structure, see them as immutable
Ti - more likely to feel a need to challenge existing rules and structure, only see them as valid if they conform to a personal logical framework

I think I've read something like this before:
TeFi - In debate, has an argument already in mind, and uses logic and the structure/rules of debate to support the argument.
TiFe - Debate to throw around ideas and challenge their validity, and eventually come to the argument they support


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

amnorvend said:


> One key thing that Ti excels at is questioning assumptions. People who use Te tend to build on society's logic, where Ti will lead a person to start at the very beginning. A lot of Ti users go into philosophy (what is knowledge? What is the meaning of life?) This can drive people who use Te nuts, but it is very good at detecting when Te is making an incorrect assumption. Remember, sometimes the foundation really is broken. Or sometimes the foundation hasn't been built yet. Or perhaps the Te user chose the wrong foundation.


The problem is, you can't move on if you're focusing on the foundation so much. Maybe I'm just impatient. It's nice to see where you're going in the long run quicker though, so you know you're not wasting your time laying down the foundation. After all, the leaning tower of Pisa ended up being successful in that it stayed up and it's famous now .


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

rowingineden said:


> I would guess that:
> Te - more likely to "research" sex and relationships (anatomy, technique, etc.)
> Ti - more likely to conduct "experiments" to see what is effective in sex/relationships (oh, if I do THIS, it produces THIS result...)
> Te - more likely to be satisfied with existing rules and structure, see them as immutable


Well, that depends. I use Se as my tertiary so I'd rather learn hands-on than look things up. I don't know why you think Ti would be more likely to "conduct experiments", where'd you get that idea? I think everyone does that. If they try something and it works, more than likely they'll do it again, sounds like Si. That structure and existing rules sounds like SiTe, too.


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## rowingineden (Jun 23, 2010)

assbiscuits said:


> Well, that depends. I use Se as my tertiary so I'd rather learn hands-on than look things up. I don't know why you think Ti would be more likely to "conduct experiments", where'd you get that idea? I think everyone does that. If they try something and it works, more than likely they'll do it again, sounds like Si. That structure and existing rules sounds like SiTe, too.


It is only meant that Ti is more experiential because they are working with "proofs" that are personal/subjective, that they can attest to themselves, whereas Te is more external in their "proofs." But the Sensing functions may have something to do with those approaches, too.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

amnorvend said:


> I wonder if you could expand on this a bit. It's been a while since I've taken English, so I forget what the difference between irony, sarcasm, and satire is. Could you maybe give examples?


Well long story short I've been browsing these forums and after a while I've started noticing a pattern that FeTi types seem to react to each other's jokes better than TeFi types, likewise TeFi types get drawn to each other's jokes more. Unfortunately this is not clear cut because perceiving functions also seem to be involved in creating and responding humor. Then I started reading about different types of humor to try to pin it down to something a bit more precise than just an intuitive hunch, but I got stuck there. Sarcasm for example has a very wide definition: a cutting or sharp expression or remark. From what I've read some say it is very distinctive from irony, others say that it includes irony. What distinguishes sarcasm, satire, and wit for me is that these seems to very good devices of conveying extraverted logic. All of these three are use for ridiculing people and situations, pointing out illogical things in the outside environment and "follies" of other human beings. This sort of verbal expression for me is associated with Te, the competitive logical extraverted cognitive function. TiFe types seems to be responsive to puns and irony, missing that logical piece or stating things that aren't type of humor. This is a pretty good example of irony here link.

I think the best example of differences between TiFe and TeFi humor can be seen by watching comedians like Bill Hicks and Louis CK (ENTPs) and then George Carlin (ENTJ) and comparing how they make their jokes. Geoge Carlin has been typed as an ENTP, however, watching other ENTP comedians I felt something was off and then when he was typed as ENTJ it all suddenly made sense. Of course some of the differences in their comedy come from them having different perceiving functions - ENTPs Ne makes some interesting imaginative recombinations of variables to create their jokes, and ENTJ's Se introduces these sort of grandiose overexaggerated statements and physical humor into their repertoire.



assbiscuits said:


> Well, then, logically, if I say Te vs Ti Fi and Fe follow, so I don't need to say TeFi vs TiFe.





assbiscuits said:


> She also taught me that a Te user will more than likely get along with an Fi user vs a Ti user because Ti users use Ti and Fe toward the outer world to evaluate things, while Fi users use Fi and Te, functions we share in common. I never thought of it that way. I always thought "we're both Ts, communication should be easier".


No, apparently it doesn't logically follow for everybody  She had to point it out to you for example. This is why I like people using TeFi and TiFe instead of Ti or Te by itself. Feelings are a part of your judging function after all. It makes no sense to exclude them.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

vel said:


> Well long story short I've been browsing these forums and after a while I've started noticing a pattern that FeTi types seem to react to each other's jokes better than TeFi types, likewise TeFi types get drawn to each other's jokes more. Unfortunately this is not clear cut because perceiving functions also seem to be involved in creating and responding humor. Then I started reading about different types of humor to try to pin it down to something a bit more precise than just an intuitive hunch, but I got stuck there. Sarcasm for example has a very wide definition: a cutting or sharp expression or remark. From what I've read some say it is very distinctive from irony, others say that it includes irony. What distinguishes sarcasm, satire, and wit for me is that these seems to very good devices of conveying extraverted logic. All of these three are use for ridiculing people and situations, pointing out illogical things in the outside environment and "follies" of other human beings. This sort of verbal expression for me is associated with Te, the competitive logical extraverted cognitive function. TiFe types seems to be responsive to puns and irony, missing that logical piece or stating things that aren't type of humor. This is a pretty good example of irony here link.
> 
> I think the best example of differences between TiFe and TeFi humor can be seen by watching comedians like Bill Hicks and Louis CK (ENTPs) and then George Carlin (ENTJ) and comparing how they make their jokes. Geoge Carlin has been typed as an ENTP, however, watching other ENTP comedians I felt something was off and then when he was typed as ENTJ it all suddenly made sense. Of course some of the differences in their comedy come from them having different perceiving functions - ENTPs Ne makes some interesting imaginative recombinations of variables to create their jokes, and ENTJ's Se introduces these sort of grandiose overexaggerated statements and physical humor into their repertoire.
> 
> ...


The title's grand. Quit whining. I should call it TeNiSeFi vs TiFe because of the functions I mentioned then.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

assbiscuits said:


> The title's grand. Quit whining. I should call it TeNiSeFi vs TiFe because of the functions I mentioned then.


You can't change the title now no matter how much you might agree with me and want to do it. We're are obviously talking about the judging function here not the perceiving one, so just stick to the topic at hand.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

We're obviously talking about Te vs Ti so Fe and Fi should follow because every person who uses Te and Ti uses either Fi or Fe so it comes into play. I don't need to mention that if you use either thinking judging function, you have either feeling judging function to follow it. It would be completely pointless to say TeFi vs TiFe for that reason. Me not knowing that beforehand shouldn't affect the title now since you know,_ I know now_.

Unless you have more to contribute to the actual topic just stop.


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