# My cognitive function preference makes no sense in the MBTI model



## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

I think I got a handle on what I prefer and what I don't, but it makes no sense:

*Ni vs Ne* - I use both or more precicely I use intuition, however I relate to Ni almost completely especially in the places I tend to disagree with what a Ne user would be. I find that generating new ideas comes with more effort and some strain compared to how efortless and fun the opposite is. I also don't take advantage of new opportinities (too cautious for that). I'm not that good / don't like to generate new options, but very good at / love to narrow down options and solve problems by pattern recognition etc.. *Ni>=Ne*

I do generate negative possiblities with relative ease thou. Stuff like why something can't be or why something won't work. Why this not why that not etc..

*Fi vs Fe* - related to Fi almost completely minus that internal harmony thing (wtf is that? In me I can only recognize internal chaos). Regarding Fe I have a mixed observations. Some of it I relate to but most of it triggers anxieties and feelings of incompetence within this area. I....don't know how to do most of this stuff and comes out awkward all the time, stiff or I just go against and break objective values in favor of my subjective understanding of what is right and wrong. *Fi > Fe*

*Ti vs Te* - related mostly to Ti with the note that I doubt my logical assertions and feel axiety if certainty isn't assured by an outside source. With Te I'm completely and utterly incompetent. I don't admire it being used, I don't see why it should be used most of the time, I suck at it bigtime too...all in all it is as if I just ignore this and it mostly comes up as a nagging sense in the back of my mind somewhere sometimes triggerng feelings of guilt due to my incompetenmce in thearea of Te. *Ti > Te*

*Si vs Se* - tend to ignore Si related stuff sadly or I neglect these. Its similar to Te...a nagging sensation comming up someimes from the back of my mind. Se is similarly not valued, but I'm more comfortable with Se, its easyer to acess imo and I don't have any uncomfortable ideas about it either, however I get lethargic if I have to deal with detail and routine and I'm highly inactive and contemplative so both are undervalued, still *Se>Si* I enjoy doing Se-ish things to relax.

 See the problem? The secondary function is sort of missing or something and while imo I mainly use Ni...I'm stereotipically very "P" -ish (messy, chaotic, disorganized, does everything last moment).

@Zero11 ^^ am I missing something here?

Preference is Ni>Ne>=Fi>Ti>Se>Fe>Si>Te

Most of it seems to point towards INFJ, thou overall xNxP is also there. Could Fe be distorted into something that resembles Fi through Ni? Then again I'm P-ish in general. I'd say INx(f)P going by dichotomies.


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## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

It's fucking uncanny how _exactly_ like me you sound when it comes to your own speculations and conjecture.

For what it's worth, I've narrowed down my use of the functions to either Ni or Ti as a dominant one, and Ne or Te as my aux.

You sound more like an INTP to me though - but this could just be my own biases, because I think I'm also an INTP.


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## Dommm (Oct 23, 2012)

No, as far as I understand you cannot have both Ne and Ni so high up in your function order. It is one or the other. From what I've read, the introverted and extroverted part of a function are "incessantly at war" with each other (as explained by Jung in the case of Te vs Ti). 

I can't remember who, but someone said it pretty well here in this forum. If you were to have high levels of both the introverted and extroverted part of the same function then you would become delusional. 

There is a pretty good thread on the INTJ forum about it, it is what I used to understand Ne and Ni a bit better: Can I have both Ni and Ne? - INTJ Forum -- Start reading from Post #22 onwards.


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## Zero11 (Feb 7, 2010)

Rim said:


> See the problem? The secondary function is sort of missing or something and while imo I mainly use Ni...I'm stereotipically very "P" -ish (messy, chaotic, disorganized, does everything last moment).


How do you make use of your Ni? Through Trial & Error or through Synthesis? And how can you be P-ish if you are Ni-ego? Ni is linear 

Have you typed some people to compare them with your experiences? This would help in finding the weak spots of your functional stack. In the case of the INTJ this would be Fe and Si.

Ti vs Te
Ti comes more natural to you than Te and if not you just lack it :crazy: Te needs to be found you need to work something out to implement it into your Ni map.

Fi vs Fe

Fi isn´t refined in a weak position and only comes out through Te or in specific conditions so internal chaos isn´t really a bad thing on this.

Ni vs Ne

Ne works based on pattern recognition Ni searches for patterns respectively generates them in the process on a time line.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Abraxas said:


> It's fucking uncanny how _exactly_ like me you sound when it comes to your own speculations and conjecture.
> 
> For what it's worth, I've narrowed down my use of the functions to either Ni or Ti as a dominant one, and Ne or Te as my aux.
> 
> You sound more like an INTP to me though - but this could just be my own biases, because I think I'm also an INTP.


At least someone relates ^^;.



Dommm said:


> No, as far as I understand you cannot have both Ne and Ni so high up in your function order. It is one or the other. From what I've read, the introverted and extroverted part of a function are "incessantly at war" with each other (as explained by Jung in the case of Te vs Ti).
> 
> I can't remember who, but someone said it pretty well here in this forum. If you were to have high levels of both the introverted and extroverted part of the same function then you would become delusional.
> 
> There is a pretty good thread on the INTJ forum about it, it is what I used to understand Ne and Ni a bit better: Can I have both Ni and Ne? - INTJ Forum -- Start reading from Post #22 onwards.


Then Ni is more likely imo. I tend to generate negative possibilities in order to shoot down and eliminate, doubt other upcoming possibilities in an attempt to narrow down the options, chose one and doubt having made the right choice. Ne dom or aux as far as I know tend to take advantage of opportunities...while I don't.





Zero11 said:


> How do you make use of your Ni? Through Trial & Error or through Synthesis? And how can you be P-ish if you are Ni-ego? Ni is linear
> 
> Have you typed some people to compare them with your experiences? This would help in finding the weak spots of your functional stack. In the case of the INTJ this would be Fe and Si.
> 
> ...


*Synthesis*

*Regarding Te* - I lack structure both internally and externally. I don't get what is happening inside of me and often ponder and rationalize myself to figure it out (emotions included). I'm messy, disorganized and my planning is the equivalent of setting a goal and then visualizing the path to it which is followed by just starting to work towards the endgoal...which I may not reach and I may reconsider and change the endgoal midway. I don't break it down or write lists, don't set timetables or such stuff. I don't like rules and regulations, pay no attention to these, I go by instinct, whatever feels right, whatever makes the most sense. I'm highly inconsistent and fickle, contradictory as well.

Its more of an improvisational troubleshooting taking all the information I can gater and mulling it over, pros and cons till I spot the one pattern that is the best option long term. For example when buying a CPU and motherboard I'll look at the manufacturer history to see what time periods the sockets last, what technology is present now and in what state, what will they bring out in a year, will it be worth to wait and what can I expect, what is my budget and what wil I use it for etc.. Ipull all this together into an answer that is optimal regarding cost, the task it will be used for, features, log term viability etc. ...so I'm not illogical just unstructured and chaotic.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

@Rim
I would say so far INFP


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

@Rim

1. How easy is self-expression for you? How do you express yourself? 
2. How do you ignore Si? 
3. How do you react to criticism and extremely negative environments?
4. How emotional others think you are? 
5. Are you worried with the application of universal moral codes (like 'Lying is wrong - you can't lie to me no matter what?') or universal truths ('To lie = to deceive, to say something not truth, ...')?


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## Tula13 (Dec 2, 2012)

@Rim It can be very confusing and difficult to nail down which two are you main functions. Especially because there is overlap in the descriptions.

To me you seem like an INFP, especially because you relate so well to Fi, and as you said [In me I can only recognize internal chaos].

Also, your avatar just looks like something an INFP would put. 

Best of luck! You can always try posting in the What Type Am I section.


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## Zero11 (Feb 7, 2010)

Rim said:


> *Synthesis*


:mellow:



> *Regarding Te* - I lack structure both internally and externally. I don't get what is happening inside of me and often ponder and rationalize myself to figure it out (emotions included). I'm messy, disorganized and my planning is the equivalent of setting a goal and then visualizing the path to it which is followed by just starting to work towards the endgoal...which I may not reach and I may reconsider and change the endgoal midway. I don't break it down or write lists, don't set timetables or such stuff. I don't like rules and regulations, pay no attention to these, I go by instinct, whatever feels right, whatever makes the most sense. I'm highly inconsistent and fickle, contradictory as well.


Thats all Ni :laughing:



> Its more of an improvisational troubleshooting taking all the information I can gater and mulling it over, pros and cons till I spot the one pattern that is the best option long term. For example when buying a CPU and motherboard I'll look at the manufacturer history to see what time periods the sockets last, what technology is present now and in what state, what will they bring out in a year, will it be worth to wait and what can I expect, what is my budget and what wil I use it for etc.. Ipull all this together into an answer that is optimal regarding cost, the task it will be used for, features, log term viability etc. ...so I'm not illogical just unstructured and chaotic.


and now it sounds like Ni-Te

or maybe I am just a biased Six :crazy:


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## SuperNova85 (Feb 21, 2011)

I could be wrong but just thought I'd chime in:

You mentioned that you didn't think that you had a potent Ne because you didn't like to take action on new opportunities, but I don't believe that Ne is necessarily centered on taking advantage of new opportunities as much as it is in _recognizing_ new opportunities. I think acting off the recognition would be more of a part of Te or Se, and you mentioned that both of those functions were pretty weak to you, so that's probably where your slowness of action is probably stemming from. Ni is actually more idea generating, and the fact you don't like generating new ideas probably signals a stronger Ne....Ne>Ni.

It's sounds to me your a definite Fi; you said that when you search inside yourself, all that you see is chaos. But the fact that you seem pretty aware of what's going on inside you is very Fi, to have a strong Fi doesn't mean you have a "perfect" emotional life...in fact they (we) often have the most emotional turmoil...Fi>Fe.

The way you described your Ti vs Te, your probably right in your conclusion of Ti>Te. As you mentioned that you didn't see a logical use of your Te, and ironically that is a very Ti statement; as Fi represents an internal "ethical" code, Ti represents an internal "logical" code...Ti>Te.

And finally your Si vs Se: Even though you guessed Se for this function, everything in your post screams a strong Si and a weak Se.
Going back to your statement about your weakness in taking advantage of opportunities, taking action usually requires a relatively strong Se, and your weakness in this area seems to signal a weak Se.
But often people who are "overcautious" have strong Sis. Se is an action oriented and experimentally based function, while Si is a relaxation oriented and a pleasure/comfort seeking function. To me, Si wins in a blowout...Si>Se.

So putting it all together based on your post, I would guess something like:

Fi, Ne, Si, Ti, Ni, Fe, Te, Se 

And for your type, I'd say INFP or INTP, but definitely leaning toward INFP.
This is my best guess, hope I helped


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

My guess for you is inferior Te - I mean, if you can't trust your own logical conclusions at all, that sounds like someone who definitely represses thinking, let alone, probably projects thinking onto stuff that might be a bit overly unrelated to your own ideas. Jung talks about Fi doms almost completely repressing introverted thinking, to the point that they tend to be slaves to concrete facts when it comes to thinking. To call you an INTP based on that would be a joke. INTPs are the masters of logical conclusions, since Ti is their dominant function - their problems come from feeling - a strong distrust of anything that can't be conceptualized and a ton of almost unwarranted personal bias against anything that goes against their codified ideals (anything too "sentimental") - often quite unconsciously conservative/traditional people as well (inferior feeling) - dominant thinkers in general are often noted for a tendency to be autocratic/controlling, although you might not outwardly get this from Ti doms, since their thinking is not really objectively presented(it's often more of personal issues they kind of force onto others from themselves in order to gain "control"). Inferior thinking types usually have issues with getting controlled - submitting to other people's conclusions without thinking them through (their shadow might come out as "bad" T doms - mean dictators who kind of tyrannize everyone with their dogma, rather than a competent person who believes in their own logic).


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Jung talks about Fi doms almost completely repressing introverted thinking, to the point that they tend to be slaves to concrete facts when it comes to thinking.


Would you mind pointing where Jung would say such a thing?


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## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> My guess for you is inferior Te - I mean, if you can't trust your own logical conclusions at all, that sounds like someone who definitely represses thinking, let alone, probably projects thinking onto stuff that might be a bit overly unrelated to your own ideas. Jung talks about Fi doms almost completely repressing introverted thinking, to the point that they tend to be slaves to concrete facts when it comes to thinking. To call you an INTP based on that would be a joke. INTPs are the masters of logical conclusions, since Ti is their dominant function - their problems come from feeling - a strong distrust of anything that can't be conceptualized and a ton of almost unwarranted personal bias against anything that goes against their codified ideals (anything too "sentimental") - often quite unconsciously conservative/traditional people as well (inferior feeling) - dominant thinkers in general are often noted for a tendency to be autocratic/controlling, although you might not outwardly get this from Ti doms, since their thinking is not really objectively presented(it's often more of personal issues they kind of force onto others from themselves in order to gain "control"). Inferior thinking types usually have issues with getting controlled - submitting to other people's conclusions without thinking them through (their shadow might come out as "bad" T doms - mean dictators who kind of tyrannize everyone with their dogma, rather than a competent person who believes in their own logic).


I love your posts. This one was very insightful and now I'm not so sure I'm an INTP after all.

Thank you.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> @Rim
> 
> 1. How easy is self-expression for you? How do you express yourself?
> 2. How do you ignore Si?
> ...


1. Difficult. I express myself better in writing where I have time to put my thoughts into words. Normally I struggle a LOT with trying to find ways to express what I think/feel. I'm also inhibited and emotionally not very expressive, usually quiet but friendly. Have some kind of natural gift for language and writing prose....suck at speaking, unless I prepare a speech beforehand.

2. Lack of internal body awareness, fuzzy recollection of anything, low recollection of detail. Comparing past experience to present is fuzzy at best. I avoid routine, can't keep routine, can't keep track of stuff I need like my keys and other stuff. Imo I just don't pay attention to personal health, sleeping on time, keeping my environment pleasant and clean (my room may fall apart: laundry on the floor, food on the desk, bed unmade for weeks, no dusting for months...half eaten chocolate on the shelves, smelly socks under the bed etc). Can't remember names, dates, street names or detailed factual information and can't write any directions either...*because I don't dedicate much active attention to many of this stuff. It seems like it isn't important enough.* O.O thou sometimes I think the worst is happening...like I'll have stomach acid (very rare once a year event) XD and I'll be panicking that I'm having heartburn or something worse. Last time I thought I had lung cancer...>.<, before that worms (non of which were true :/...blasted hypochondriac moments).

3. Constructive criticism I handle well. The other kind will piss me off at first and make me feel like shit later. The most likely thing that will happen is that I'll remove myself having enough self control not to succumb to anger, I'll try to retain control and walk away gracefully. :/ the tipping point usually comes if I can't and it feels like my brain is rebooting. At this point words kind of fail and my vindictive sadistic side gets out of control...which means I throw all morality and reason out the window...have the need to get physical to crush my source of anguish and "break" them while at it. Its a highly out of control state that I only experience if I'm pushed into a corner with no way out. (I'll admit to liking it too...its liberating).

4. I cry like once in 2 years...maybe (it takes a lot to move me to tears). Don't really feel much out of the ordinary at funerals of family members. I admit to having thin skin and can get angry, hell I'm reactive, I feel a lot of guilt and think I should be sad at funerals or when something bad happens, but I don't get sad. I feel anxiety and can be happy too but damn its always at times when its not really needed. When I'd need to be happy and express gratitude...I can't and feel bad for faking it (which I also can't).* I think being overly emotional is kind of a pathetic and weak characteristic, but emotional intelligence is something worth developing.* If I love someone I can be pretty romantic, supportive and charming, cus yeah love is the best and worst feeling of all. ^^ I feel guilty if I have to kill fish after a fishing trip (always imagine other creatures gutting and cohpping the heads off humans, throwing them on a pile...disturbing) and feel like shit if I hurt someone else through anything I said/did and they didn't deserve it. Mammals are my achilles heel.  sometimes I feel bad for inanimate objects which I neglected (wtf rare and odd event). Songs, lyrics, movies, books and other stuff can trigger some highly intense feeling episodes which I tend to enjoy a lot. I can be sad and happy about being sad and melancholic at the same time (its odd).

*I once sat next to an old lady who was stuck in her bead with death knocking at the door for monts. She cried over so many things and most of the time I was thinking about why I don't feel anything for her. Moments like these I think something is wrong with me because I'm supposed to be sad right? Maybe comfort her? So why do I care so little about her fate, pains and why do I feel so uneasy and don't know how to fake something to comfort her? The girl who was with me at the time burst into tears while I just wanted it to be over so I can go home.*

*Other people perceive me as rather distant, unemotional but friendly. I do not display my emotions openly and if I'm overcome by them...I'd rather cringe and excuse myself to be alone then to show any such embarrassing weakness in public.*

5. Universal moral codes. I tend to be mindful of other people's freedom and well being as well as my own. If someone distorts the truth...that will pretty much set me off as well. I practice tough love, truth and fairness over allowing others to live in blissful ignorance. Cynicism over idealism and delusions, cynicism over utopian hopes. Its better to be mindful of the truth and to keep in mind the worse that could happen...thou I still think one should strive for the best. False hope and delusions only lead to anger and suffering imo. o.o I feel guilt if I lie :/ I'm a superego type 6...so myeah.



JungyesMBTIno said:


> My guess for you is inferior Te - I mean, if you can't trust your own logical conclusions at all, that sounds like someone who definitely represses thinking, let alone, probably projects thinking onto stuff that might be a bit overly unrelated to your own ideas. Jung talks about Fi doms almost completely repressing introverted thinking, to the point that they tend to be slaves to concrete facts when it comes to thinking. To call you an INTP based on that would be a joke. INTPs are the masters of logical conclusions, since Ti is their dominant function - their problems come from feeling - a strong distrust of anything that can't be conceptualized and a ton of almost unwarranted personal bias against anything that goes against their codified ideals (anything too "sentimental") - often quite unconsciously conservative/traditional people as well (inferior feeling) - dominant thinkers in general are often noted for a tendency to be autocratic/controlling, although you might not outwardly get this from Ti doms, since their thinking is not really objectively presented(it's often more of personal issues they kind of force onto others from themselves in order to gain "control"). Inferior thinking types usually have issues with getting controlled - submitting to other people's conclusions without thinking them through (their shadow might come out as "bad" T doms - mean dictators who kind of tyrannize everyone with their dogma, rather than a competent person who believes in their own logic).


I may doubt myself, but I don't trust anyone else either and I don't like being told what to do, what to think, how to think or who and how I am, unless the person or whatever can back up the assertions with some serious evidence and logic. As far as it goes I trust science and seeing the evidence myself.

I usually over think and question everything uncertain, test and so on. Typical E6. Over time I develop a level of trust in my own ability to comprehend the truth. ^^ as you'll se over the course of such threads I repeatedly shoot down anyone's assertions which are not backed up by evidence and logic .

The vibe this and vibe that, the I feel you are such and such is not even worth considering.

I don't trust the MBTI as a model for personality either as it hasn't been scientifically validated to be true and useful. Sure these is omething here and we all can see it, but what exactly? Basing something on evidence created through self report testing is insane.


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## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

Rim said:


> 1. Difficult. I express myself better in writing where I have time to put my thoughts into words. Normally I struggle a LOT with trying to find ways to express what I think/feel. I'm also inhibited and emotionally not very expressive, usually quiet but friendly. Have some kind of natural gift for language and writing prose....suck at speaking, unless I prepare a speech beforehand.
> 
> 2. Lack of internal body awareness, fuzzy recollection of anything, low recollection of detail. Comparing past experience to present is fuzzy at best. I avoid routine, can't keep routine, can't keep track of stuff I need like my keys and other stuff. Imo I just don't pay attention to personal health, sleeping on time, keeping my environment pleasant and clean (my room may fall apart: laundry on the floor, food on the desk, bed unmade for weeks, no dusting for months...half eaten chocolate on the shelves, smelly socks under the bed etc). Can't remember names, dates, street names or detailed factual information and can't write any directions either...*because I don't dedicate much active attention to many of this stuff. It seems like it isn't important enough.* O.O thou sometimes I think the worst is happening...like I'll have stomach acid (very rare once a year event) XD and I'll be panicking that I'm having heartburn or something worse. Last time I thought I had lung cancer...>.<, before that worms (non of which were true :/...blasted hypochondriac moments).
> 
> ...


Now that I've read a few more of your posts, you really do strike me as Fi-Ne. I'm going to agree with the people saying INFP.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Abraxas said:


> Now that I've read a few more of your posts, you really do strike me as Fi-Ne. I'm going to agree with the people saying INFP.


o.o impressions don't count, back up assertion with a line of reasoning or I'll just dismiss it. Thx.

^^ also this thread just helped me realize something  in socionics. Awesome! Ty dude.


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## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

Rim said:


> o.o impressions don't count, back up assertion with a line of reasoning or I'll just dismiss it. Thx.
> 
> ^^ also this thread just helped me realize something  in socionics. Awesome! Ty dude.



It's just a hunch. I'm trying to pin it down, but the best I can do is tell you that it was triggered the moment I noticed how often and in what manner you use emoticons in your posts. It's almost identical to the majority of posts I've read in the INFP forum.

Hold on, let me quote your long response to that other person and just address your responses individually.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Abraxas said:


> It's just a hunch. I'm trying to pin it down, but the best I can do is tell you that it was triggered the moment I noticed how often and in what manner you use emoticons in your posts. It's almost identical to the majority of posts I've read in the INFP forum.
> 
> Hold on, let me quote your long response to that other person and just address your responses individually.


Hmm I copied the emoticon usage and certain behavioral traits from a girlfriend I had a few years back. I liked how she used them so I took them to a new level . I'm adaptive like that.


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

@Rim your Enneagram 6 is bringing too much doubt, IEI is really you NiFeSeTi


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## Abraxas (May 28, 2011)

Rim said:


> 1. Difficult. I express myself better in writing where I have time to put my thoughts into words. Normally I struggle a LOT with trying to find ways to express what I think/feel. I'm also inhibited and emotionally not very expressive, usually quiet but friendly. Have some kind of natural gift for language and writing prose....suck at speaking, unless I prepare a speech beforehand.


From Psychological Types, by Jung:

" The depths of this feeling can only be divined—they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject."



Rim said:


> 2. Lack of internal body awareness, fuzzy recollection of anything, low recollection of detail. Comparing past experience to present is fuzzy at best. I avoid routine, can't keep routine, can't keep track of stuff I need like my keys and other stuff. Imo I just don't pay attention to personal health, sleeping on time, keeping my environment pleasant and clean (my room may fall apart: laundry on the floor, food on the desk, bed unmade for weeks, no dusting for months...half eaten chocolate on the shelves, smelly socks under the bed etc). Can't remember names, dates, street names or detailed factual information and can't write any directions either...*because I don't dedicate much active attention to many of this stuff. It seems like it isn't important enough.* O.O thou sometimes I think the worst is happening...like I'll have stomach acid (very rare once a year event) XD and I'll be panicking that I'm having heartburn or something worse. Last time I thought I had lung cancer...>.<, before that worms (non of which were true :/...blasted hypochondriac moments).


"Where intuition has the priority, every ordinary situation in life seems like a closed room, which intuition has to open. It is constantly seeking outlets and fresh possibilities in external life. In a very short time every actual situation becomes a prison to the intuitive; it burdens him like a chain, prompting a compelling need for solution. At times objects would seem to have an almost exaggerated value, should they chance to represent the idea of a severance or release that might lead to the discovery of a new possibility. Yet no sooner have they performed their office, serving intuition as a ladder or a bridge, than they appear to have no further value, and are discarded as mere burdensome appendages. A fact is acknowledged only in so far as it opens up fresh possibilities of advancing beyond it and of releasing the individual from its operation. Emerging possibilities are compelling motives from which intuition cannot escape and to which all else must be sacrificed."

"He can never exist in stable, long-established conditions of generally acknowledged though limited value: because his eye is constantly ranging for new possibilities, stable conditions have an air of impending suffocation."

"The unconscious of the intuitive has a certain similarity with that of the sensation-type. Thinking and feeling, being relatively repressed, produce infantile and archaic thoughts and feelings in the unconscious, which may be compared with those of the countertype. They likewise come to the surface in the form of intensive projections, and are just as absurd as those of the sensation-type, only to my mind they lack the other's mystical character; they are chiefly concerned with quasi-actual things, in the nature of sexual, financial, and other hazards, as, for instance, suspicions of approaching illness."



Rim said:


> 3. Constructive criticism I handle well. The other kind will piss me off at first and make me feel like shit later. The most likely thing that will happen is that I'll remove myself having enough self control not to succumb to anger, I'll try to retain control and walk away gracefully. :/ the tipping point usually comes if I can't and it feels like my brain is rebooting. At this point words kind of fail and my vindictive sadistic side gets out of control...which means I throw all morality and reason out the window...have the need to get physical to crush my source of anguish and "break" them while at it. Its a highly out of control state that I only experience if I'm pushed into a corner with no way out. (I'll admit to liking it too...its liberating).


" He rids himself of the restrictions of reason, only to fall a victim to unconscious neurotic compulsions in the form of oversubtle, negative reasoning, hair-splitting dialectics, and a compulsive tie to the sensation of the object. His conscious attitude, both to the sensation and the sensed object, is one of sovereign superiority and disregard. Not that he means to be inconsiderate or superior—he simply does not see the object that everyone else sees; his oblivion is similar to that of the sensation-type—only, with the latter, the soul of the object is missed. For this oblivion the object sooner or later takes revenge in the form of hypochondriacal, compulsive ideas, phobias, and every imaginable kind of absurd bodily sensation."



Rim said:


> 4. I cry like once in 2 years...maybe (it takes a lot to move me to tears). Don't really feel much out of the ordinary at funerals of family members. I admit to having thin skin and can get angry, hell I'm reactive, I feel a lot of guilt and think I should be sad at funerals or when something bad happens, but I don't get sad. I feel anxiety and can be happy too but damn its always at times when its not really needed. When I'd need to be happy and express gratitude...I can't and feel bad for faking it (which I also can't).* I think being overly emotional is kind of a pathetic and weak characteristic, but emotional intelligence is something worth developing.* If I love someone I can be pretty romantic, supportive and charming, cus yeah love is the best and worst feeling of all. ^^ I feel guilty if I have to kill fish after a fishing trip (always imagine other creatures gutting and cohpping the heads off humans, throwing them on a pile...disturbing) and feel like shit if I hurt someone else through anything I said/did and they didn't deserve it. Mammals are my achilles heel.  sometimes I feel bad for inanimate objects which I neglected (wtf rare and odd event). Songs, lyrics, movies, books and other stuff can trigger some highly intense feeling episodes which I tend to enjoy a lot. I can be sad and happy about being sad and melancholic at the same time (its odd).
> 
> *I once sat next to an old lady who was stuck in her bead with death knocking at the door for monts. She cried over so many things and most of the time I was thinking about why I don't feel anything for her. Moments like these I think something is wrong with me because I'm supposed to be sad right? Maybe comfort her? So why do I care so little about her fate, pains and why do I feel so uneasy and don't know how to fake something to comfort her? The girl who was with me at the time burst into tears while I just wanted it to be over so I can go home.*
> 
> ...


"They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. Since they submit the control of their lives to their subjectively orientated feeling, their true motives generally remain concealed. Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way."

"A superficial judgment might well be betrayed, by a rather cold and reserved demeanour, into denying all feeling to this type. Such a view, however, would be quite false; the truth is, her feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop into the depth. Whereas, for instance, an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in both word and deed at the right place, thus quickly ridding itself of its impression, an intensive sympathy, because shut off from every means of expression, gains a passionate depth that embraces the misery of a world and is simply benumbed. It may possibly make an extravagant irruption, leading to some staggering act of an almost heroic character, to which, however, neither the object nor the subject can find a right relation. To the outer world, or to the blind eyes of the extravert, this sympathy looks like coldness, for it does nothing visibly, and an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces."


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

Rim said:


> 1. *Difficult.* I express myself better in writing where I have time to put my thoughts into words. Normally I struggle a LOT with trying to find ways to express what I think/feel.* I'm also inhibited and emotionally not very expressive*, usually quiet but friendly. Have some kind of natural gift for language and writing prose....*suck at speaking*, unless I prepare a speech beforehand.


You are a Ni-Fi user, I see. My initial assumption: INTJ or ISFP. Ne users find self-expression easy, unlike Ni. 




> 2. Lack of internal body awareness, fuzzy recollection of anything, low recollection of detail. Comparing past experience to present is fuzzy at best. I avoid routine, can't keep routine, can't keep track of stuff I need like my keys and other stuff. Imo I just don't pay attention to personal health, sleeping on time, keeping my environment pleasant and clean (my room may fall apart: laundry on the floor, food on the desk, bed unmade for weeks, no dusting for months...half eaten chocolate on the shelves, smelly socks under the bed etc). Can't remember names, dates, street names or detailed factual information and can't write any directions either...*because I don't dedicate much active attention to many of this stuff. It seems like it isn't important enough.* O.O thou sometimes I think the worst is happening...like I'll have stomach acid (very rare once a year event) XD and I'll be panicking that I'm having heartburn or something worse. Last time I thought I had lung cancer...>.<, before that worms (non of which were true :/...blasted hypochondriac moments).


Yes some things here appear inferior Si, and Sp last or week. I could see some Se too. 




> 3. Constructive criticism I handle well. The other kind will piss me off at first and make me feel like shit later. The most likely thing that will happen is that I'll remove myself having enough self control not to succumb to anger, I'll try to retain control and walk away gracefully. :/ the tipping point usually comes if I can't and it feels like my brain is rebooting. At this point words kind of fail and my *vindictive sadistic side gets out of control...which means I throw all morality and reason out the window...*have the need to get physical to crush my source of anguish and "break" them while at it. Its a highly out of control state that I only experience if I'm pushed into a corner with no way out. (I'll admit to liking it too...its liberating).


Ok, lots of inferior Te here.




> 4. I cry like once in 2 years...maybe (it takes a lot to move me to tears). Don't really feel much out of the ordinary at funerals of family members. I admit to having thin skin and can get angry, hell I'm reactive, I feel a lot of guilt and think I should be sad at funerals or when something bad happens, but I don't get sad. I feel anxiety and can be happy too but damn its always at times when its not really needed. When I'd need to be happy and express gratitude...I can't and feel bad for faking it (which I also can't).* I think being overly emotional is kind of a pathetic and weak characteristic.* If I love someone I can be pretty romantic, supportive and charming, cus yeah love is the best and worst feeling of all. ^^ I feel guilty if I have to kill fish after a fishing trip (always imagine other creatures gutting and cohpping the heads off humans, throwing them on a pile...disturbing) and feel like shit if I hurt someone else through anything I said/did and they didn't deserve it. Mammals are my achilles heel.  sometimes I feel bad for inanimate objects which I neglected (wtf rare and odd event). *Songs, lyrics, movies, books and other stuff can trigger some highly intense feeling episodes which I tend to enjoy a lot. I can be sad and happy about being sad and melancholic at the same time (its odd).*


*OMG LOT'S OF Fi HERE! *:crazy: Fi users don't have to be the crybaby like many descriptions make it sound. Fi users can express a lot of empathy towards others, loyalty and so on. I could also see some Fe there, but my final guess is: Fi>Fe (after all, you express a lot of inferior Te in the last answer). 




> *I once sat next to an old lady who was stuck in her bead with death knocking at the door for monts. She cried over so many things and most of the time I was thinking about why I don't feel anything for her. Moments like these I think something is wrong with me because I'm supposed to be sad right? Maybe comfort her? So why do I care so little about her fate, pains and why do I feel so uneasy and don't know how to fake something to comfort her? The girl who was with me at the time burst into tears while I just wanted it to be over so I can go home.*


You are not a Fe user, for sure. You are too much honest with yourself and too much self-aware (Fi): you give the impression you are always trying to understand what you are feeling - which is Fi. 




> *Other people perceive me as rather distant, unemotional but friendly. I do not display my emotions openly and if I'm overcome by them...I'd rather cringe and excuse myself to be alone then to show any such embarrassing weakness in public.*


Fi, Fi, FI roud:




> 5. *Universal moral codes [this is Fi]* I tend to be mindful of other people's freedom and well being as well as my own. If someone distorts the truth...that will pretty much set me off as well. I practice tough love, truth and fairness over allowing others to live in blissful ignorance. *Cynicism over idealism and delusions, cynicism over utopian hopes.* Its better to be mindful of the truth and to keep in mind the worse that could happen...thou I still think one should strive for the best. False hope and delusions only lead to anger and suffering imo. o.o I feel guilt if I lie :/ I'm a superego type 6...so myeah.


Again, lots of Fi




> I usually over think and question everything uncertain, test and so on. Typical E6. *Over time I develop a level of trust in my own ability to comprehend the truth. ^^* as you'll se over the course of such threads I repeatedly shoot down anyone's assertions which are not backed up by evidence and logic .


There is some Ni in bold - however unlike Ni users who are more confidante in dissecting the truth (They know what is behind the scenes and don't search for outside sources to proof it) you seem more doubtful (lol E6 ) which makes me think terciary Ni, and so ISFP. 

If you don't feel like one, then you may be an INFP :happy: however, INFP-s find self-expression easy due to Ne. Check this: 



> ISFPs do not merely live “in the world of the senses”, as Keirsey’s portraits of the SP types would have you believe. Nor are they exclusively “sensers”. SP types also have an intuitive function (Ni), which is tertiary in the ISPs and repressed in the ESPs.
> 
> 
> So ISFPs have tertiary Ni, that is, they have Fi-Se-Ni. By contrast, INFPs have secondary Ne, that is, Fi-Ne-Si.
> ...


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Boolean11 said:


> @Rim your Enneagram 6 is bringing too much doubt, IEI is really you NiFeSeTi


o.o I'm a negativist. As you can see i'm very inclined to say why something can't be, I'm doubtful and skeptical, intellectually distrusting...etc.

Negativists are: SEI, LII, EIE, SLE, ILI, ESI, LSE and IEE.

IEI is a positivist, also I lack IEI's command of Fe. I think it is safe to say that we can cut SEI from the list for the same reasons, LII too for other reasons, EIE for Fe reasons again. Idk about ILI and ESI secondary Se is something I don't do. Definitely no LSE.

From the 15 dichotomies it kinda comes down to IEE and ILI.

@Phoenix_Rebirth

Hmm how would years of crippling social phobia and lack of contact / interaction with other people, having no friends factor into the equation?


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## DomNapoleon (Jan 21, 2012)

Rim said:


> @_Phoenix_Rebirth_
> 
> Hmm how would years of crippling social phobia and lack of contact / interaction with other people, having no friends factor into the equation?


Social anxiety is a pathology, a mental illness. I have suffered from it in the past: Don't use it as a tool/argument for typing, since it is not a personality trait: it's a disorder.


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## Boolean11 (Jun 11, 2012)

Rim said:


> o.o I'm a negativist. As you can see i'm very inclined to say why something can't be, I'm doubtful and skeptical, intellectually distrusting...etc.
> 
> Negativists are: SEI, LII, EIE, SLE, ILI, ESI, LSE and IEE.
> 
> ...


Reinin Screw ups, Enneagram instead plays a massive role in inter-type diversity


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@_Rim_ 

You do sound quite logical (frankly, if you are very strict about logic, inferior thinking is not out of the question - these types can be quite savvy with logic in an impersonal sense - it's just applying it to their personal lives and motives that tends to be merely rather roughly adapted (it's subtle about them, not usually obvious) - that's the deal with functions in personality to begin with (from a Jungian perspective, not an MBTI one so much) - in the academic realm, when functions aren't being rationalized toward the ego (desires, personal ideas, etc.), but instead, toward material that is "other," then people might be quite savvy with their inferiors). In MBTI, I might call you a thinker, but in Jung, I might call you an inferior thinker - people use both different systems that way over at Personality Nation.


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Jung talks about Fi doms almost completely repressing introverted thinking, to the point that they tend to be slaves to concrete facts when it comes to thinking. To call you an INTP based on that would be a joke. INTPs are the masters of logical conclusions, since Ti is their dominant function


As usual, you're all mixed up. Jung believed that all introverts' repressed, unconscious functions were _extraverted_, and Fi-doms were no exception. It was Te, not Ti, that Jung viewed as tending to be "concretistic" (as Jung explained in his Te description), and Jung's model of the psyche called for an Fi-dom to have Te — not Ti — in their unconscious, and that's what could cause them to be, as you put it, "slaves to concrete facts when it comes to thinking." Here's Jung, describing Fi-doms:



Jung said:


> Just as introverted thinking is counterbalanced by a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts surpass all bounds.


Again, that primitive thinking in the Fi-dom's unconscious is (as Jung saw it) Te, not Ti.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> Social anxiety is a pathology, a mental illness. I have suffered from it in the past: Don't use it as a tool/argument for typing, since it is not a personality trait: it's a disorder.


Yeah but it could have the side effect of me for example not developing certain things due to lack of practice. It could explain speaking problems for example.

@Boolean11

XD yeah enneagram is so dang apparent and important part of anyone's personality imo. Shame ppl didn't take to it.

@JungyesMBTIno

I agree with inferior Te.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

Sounds like you're confused about what the functions are. For one, using a function won't automatically mean that you match comfortably with all the descriptors in an online breakdown of what the function is.

For example, cognitiveprocesses.com says this about Te:


> Extraverted Thinking helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on.


Which is absolute nonsense as far as I'm concerned. There may be a trend where Te users focus more on systematic approaches to thinking - laying things out through something like a chart or a graph - but I almost never use these myself.

Similarly:


> The "social graces," such as being polite, being nice, being friendly, being considerate, and being appropriate, often revolve around the process of extraverted Feeling.


Someone with Fe can be a complete asshole. Keep in mind that functions are going to look different depending on whether they're a leading function or an inferior function. I've yet to see an INTP whose instinct is social graces and caring for people.. but they have Fe. They could be that person but it would mean going out of their comfort zone.

Just like I, with Se as my 4th function, could be a rock climbing, bungee jumping, sky diving, stunt double, but it's not really what comes naturally to me.

Consider what comes naturally to you, but not in terms of competence. It needs to be in terms of what simply is. You either use the particular function with ease - often to the point of not realizing you're using it - or you don't. Whether you use the function "competently" is irrelevant.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

To be honest, from what posts I have seen you have always struck me as an ISFP. 

Why don't you relate to it? Because I know you have considered it.


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