# Ni Suggestive



## BurningIce (Oct 19, 2013)

I've recently come to a better understanding of Ni suggestive. Here is a video about it, feel free to come visit my channel (see signature)


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I think the willpower for acquisition with Se is better understood as being akin to desire to experience. It's not just "I want", but it's a "I want to experience X". The thing about Se is that it only experiences the outer surface of something. It sees a shirt and that's exactly what it is, but Se misses out on the hidden and intangible meanings of their experiences. It's lacking in depth. As a personal example, I may discuss a particular work of fiction with Amaterasu as an SEE. She can be something like, that scene looks cool but to me, it's not just that the scene itself looks cool but there is a lot of underlying meaning in it; meaning that adds depth, once one gains awareness of it. For example, we play League of Legends together and there's this particular champion called Zed who wears a mask. We were discussing eroticization and women's desire and how it relates to Zed in that many women often express towards Zed as a champion, though he remains masked. You do not know how he looks like at all. She thought the mask was just there to "look cool," but to me, the mask fulfills a deeper meaning in how it plays out in terms of erotic desire, suggesting danger and challenge to find out what's underneath the mask, what it is he is hiding and also as a result of it, who will be the special one to be able to find out. 

Another aspect is that Se sees how to act in the present, but it does not see how the present action results in the future.


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## BurningIce (Oct 19, 2013)

I don't recall saying I was talking about Se and I don't recall defining Se aside from a short parenthesis in this specific video.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kore said:


> I don't recall saying I was talking about Se and I don't recall defining Se aside from a short parenthesis in this specific video.


?

The entire video is about Se and Ni?


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## BurningIce (Oct 19, 2013)

Nope, the whole video is about Ni suggestive. Again, I'm not defining Se in this specific video.

And on a side note, I won't debate definitions anyway.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kore said:


> Nope, the whole video is about Ni suggestive. Again, I'm not defining Se in this specific video.
> 
> And on a side note, I won't debate definitions anyway.


No offense, but now I really think you are being obtuse on purpose. You spend a lot of time talking about what an Se base does, how they think etc., and you explain this in comparison to Ni. You spend the first 3 minutes talking about this alone, which is a total of 1/3 of the video. I wouldn't say that's a short parenthesis. But whatever floats your boat.


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## BurningIce (Oct 19, 2013)

I think you have no idea who you are talking to and you enjoy assuming way too much. 

Also, your interpretation of my words is not my issue.


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## The_Wanderer (Jun 13, 2013)

Entropic said:


> I think the willpower for acquisition with Se is better understood as being akin to desire to experience. It's not just "I want", but it's a "I want to experience X". The thing about Se is that it only experiences the outer surface of something. It sees a shirt and that's exactly what it is, but Se misses out on the hidden and intangible meanings of their experiences. It's lacking in depth. As a personal example, I may discuss a particular work of fiction with Amaterasu as an SEE. She can be something like, that scene looks cool but to me, it's not just that the scene itself looks cool but there is a lot of underlying meaning in it; meaning that adds depth, once one gains awareness of it. For example, we play League of Legends together and there's this particular champion called Zed who wears a mask. We were discussing eroticization and women's desire and how it relates to Zed in that many women often express towards Zed as a champion, though he remains masked. You do not know how he looks like at all. She thought the mask was just there to "look cool," but to me, the mask fulfills a deeper meaning in how it plays out in terms of erotic desire, suggesting danger and challenge to find out what's underneath the mask, what it is he is hiding and also as a result of it, who will be the special one to be able to find out.


This is a great example. It's also had the side-effect of convincing myself of a sneaking possibility I had in the back of my head; that I was an SEE, or any Ni-valuing type, is wrong.


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

@Kore

I was wondering if you have any thoughts/ideas in relation to Ni-suggestive in SEEs? Also, do you have any specific examples of how the Ni-Se dynamic works in practice, such as your own experiences with your dual-type?

Thanks! ^_^


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## BurningIce (Oct 19, 2013)

Kintsugi said:


> @_Kore_
> 
> I was wondering if you have any thoughts/ideas in relation to Ni-suggestive in SEEs? Also, do you have any specific examples of how the Ni-Se dynamic works in practice, such as your own experiences with your dual-type?
> 
> Thanks! ^_^


I will look into it... One difference between SEE and SLE is that SEE focus is on politeness and etiquette, right and wrong and likes and dislikes, whereas SLEs focus on structures and rules.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

(Speaking from experience) When it comes to the symbolic aspect of Ni, in the suggestive position it seems to manifest as a general interest in imagery and symbolism that provokes a subjective reaction and an interest in people who can explain and/or produce them. Explanations or descriptions done in a metaphorical manner can be very attractive to them. Depending on the person, the Se-base may search for hidden meaning where there is none or attempt to convey a message through a very rudimentary use of Ni, like using very cliched representations, commonly used symbols. Stuff like that. Sometimes they look for a feeling of "connectedness of ideas", where everything seems related to everything and they can experience themselves as one part of the big mechanism of the universe, one gear in the synchronized symphony of the whatever. I draw a lot of experiences of unconscious Ni from an SEE type 7w6 friend I have and she's attracted to that kind of thinking. She's into things like astrology for that reason and she was enthralled when I explained the basics of Jungian archetypes theory to her. She's the kind of Se-base who's got a "pull" relationship towards her suggestive Ni, where she shows a strong attraction to it and is very reactive. Other Se-bases (or people of any type) are sometimes more indifferent towards their suggestive, more oblivious you could say.

As it is with any dual-seeking function, the attraction is mostly unconscious, which I've come to understand means the person may not even be aware of such an attraction existing or feel incapable of explaining the reason for their attraction (unless they are into Socionics? lol).

Regarding the future, time-oriented aspect of Ni, not much changes. Se-egos may equally develop an interest in things like say, tarot reading (astrology comes to mind again), due to its future-predictive abilities, despite their reputation or potential lack of efficiency. They are very interested in people who seem capable of predictions and have a long-term thinking, enjoy discussions about how the current situation, people, systems, anything will change, especially if they can take action in the present, which will often bring them the fullfilment of feeling they are working towards a goal or that their actions have effects on a defined future path, in other words, that their Ni has offered them a sense of direction to their actions.

And in my experience with Se-bases, I find that they very often compliment the fact I appear calm, as if I exuded an infectious calm aura, which exists as a counterbalance to their active, energetic ego. But, I'm not a 100% sure that applies to other Ni/Se bases, maybe it has to do with me as a person.


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

@_Pancreatic Pandora_

Nice post, I agree with most of it. Although, I've never been into tarot or astrology.  

With regards this bit, where you mentioned;



> She's the kind of Se-base who's got a "pull" relationship towards her suggestive Ni, where she shows a strong attraction to it and is very reactive. Other Se-bases (or people of any type) are sometimes more indifferent towards their suggestive, more oblivious you could say.


I think everyone has a "pull" to their suggestive function, so this statement seems a little confusing to me. Likewise, sometimes, I have a found, I encounter issues with the "subjectivity" of some Ni-egos. I, as an SEE, am not going to blindly believe what someone else tells me without first having some concrete experiences to relate to it. So, sometimes, if there is a "disconnect" with the Se-ego, it may be because the vision is just too abstract. In which case, you could argue that it was the Ni-ego being indifferent to Se suggestive, rather than the other way round. This is highlighted here, with regards Introverted intuition - Wikisocion in the ILI/IEI ;

_"Because the individual gets his or her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with base  may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he or she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. *However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much.**"

*_This​​​ also reminds me of something @_Kore_ said to me about how she views the differences between Ni-suggestive in SEE and SLEs. She summed it up quite nicely by saying; "_*One seeks projections in the future of group ethics (SLE), the other seeks projections in the future of objective facts (SEE)."

*_I think the emphasis on "objective facts" is important in this instance.


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## BurningIce (Oct 19, 2013)

@Kintsugi: I just now came up with the realization that Fi valued needs facts to justify it's judgments. Let's think of Fi as a judgment of right and wrong or like and dislike for a moment, having a fact (theory material like that you brought up yourself) that proves it, justifies judgment of Fi and simultaneously provides a vision in the future of how and where to apply force.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

Kintsugi said:


> @_Pancreatic Pandora_
> 
> Nice post, I agree with most of it. Although, I've never been into tarot or astrology.
> 
> ...


According to Socionics, yes, people should have that kind of relationship to their suggestive. But I don't think it's always going to be that way, like you already know there's people saying duality is difficult to establish and duals may not like each other on first encounters. Plus, I think it can actually be difficult, depending on the person, to truly accept and incorporate your suggestive function into your life, I remember someone putting it in terms of their ego rejecting them. This thread kind of sparked that thought: http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...ise-von-franz-soreness-inferior-function.html . People can be reactive to criticism in their suggestive and thus act like "I don't need your help" or be dismissive. In those cases, people may first need to be honest with themselves about their weaknesses. I just see the relationship as more complicated than merely being attracted to that function. Moreover, because the attraction is unconscious, the person may not even know that what they want in their life is Ni and that's kind of what I meant by being "oblivious", that the person may feel a desire of something they can't tell what is. The opposite would be people who come across as deliberately putting themselves in situations where they can find their suggestive.



> [Likewise, sometimes, I have a found, I encounter issues with the "subjectivity" of some Ni-egos. I, as an SEE, am not going to blindly believe what someone else tells me without first having some concrete experiences to relate to it. So, sometimes, if there is a "disconnect" with the Se-ego, it may be because the vision is just too abstract. In which case, you could argue that it was the Ni-ego being indifferent to Se suggestive, rather than the other way round. This is highlighted here, with regards Introverted intuition - Wikisocion in the ILI/IEI ;
> 
> _"Because the individual gets his or her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with base  may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he or she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. *However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much.**"
> 
> ...


It's possible. That's a nice way of seeing it.


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## Kintsugi (May 17, 2011)

@_Kore_

Interesting, I'll have to chew on that thought for a while. 

@_Pancreatic Pandora_



> People can be reactive to criticism in their suggestive and thus act like "I don't need your help" or be dismissive. In those cases, people may first need to be honest with themselves about their weaknesses.


I agree with what you are saying, that there can be issues between duals, sure. However, perhaps part of my issue is that, I've just never _experienced _it myself. I've not once encountered problems with either my bf or other ILIs that I interact with privately. Communication and the exchange of information is just _very_ smooth. Even if I don't agree with their opinion I can still understand what they are saying, very clearly. There is no "misunderstanding" in that sense, nor am I left with a sore head, thinking, wtf was _that _all about?!

I spend pretty much all my time talking to ILIs so maybe I'm not the best SEE to talk about their experiences, regarding this. It might be more of an issue for someone who has had less exposure to their dual-seeking function, perhaps.



> I just see the relationship as more complicated than merely being attracted to that function. Moreover, because the attraction is unconscious, the person may not even know that what they want in their life is Ni and that's kind of what I meant by being "oblivious", that the person may feel a desire of something they can't tell what is. The opposite would be people who come across as deliberately putting themselves in situations where they can find their suggestive.


I didn't know that I needed Ni in my life until I met my bf and experienced it. And I am now very attuned to it; to the point where I do actively seek out individuals who can feed me my suggestive. I'm a shameless Ni whore.


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## Pancreatic Pandora (Aug 16, 2013)

Kintsugi said:


> @_Pancreatic Pandora_
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with what you are saying, that there can be issues between duals, sure. However, perhaps part of my issue is that, I've just never _experienced _it myself. I've not once encountered problems with either my bf or other ILIs that I interact with privately. Communication and the exchange of information is just _very_ smooth. Even if I don't agree with their opinion I can still understand what they are saying, very clearly. There is no "misunderstanding" in that sense, nor am I left with a sore head, thinking, wtf was _that _all about?!


Alright, I've had my misunderstandings with SEEs though I can't remember anything in concrete atm. It's also possible that they were not exactly related to Se-Ni either.



> I spend pretty much all my time talking to ILIs so maybe I'm not the best SEE to talk about their experiences, regarding this. It might be more of an issue for someone who has had less exposure to their dual-seeking function, perhaps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's likely the case roud:. I would expect people who are not as "dualized" to have a different relationship to their Ni.


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## Mr Oops (Jun 29, 2016)

> Ni as suggestive function of SLE (ESTp; Zhukov) and SEE (ESFp; Napoleon) - people of these types prefer environments where they experience no inner discomfort, contradictions with themselves, where ideas and principles are shared without requiring an explanation. If this is not achievable, then they simply move somewhere else. They like people who know how to raise their spirits, to create harmony in their soul, so that at heart they feel good. Suggestible by elevated moods and optimism of others, do not like to be in company of those whose spirits are low. May use alcohol or other substances to quiet down the soul searching meanwhile believing that everyone does the same thing, , which can lead to alcoholism. Their main requirement for environment is that it should not cause conflict with their ideals and principles. If this is not possible then he leaves saying "this is not my world, I do not find this existence interesting." Cannot live in conditions when the external situation "hurts the soul," brings up an inner "itch" that cannot get scratched. If the place is comfortable, then it automatically everyone there is accepted as their own, since they share his beliefs, and thus such place already has all the prerequisites to do and create what he sees fit. Therefore, likes to be accepted "warts and all" creating a microcosm of "own" people who accept each other's weaknesses and live with it. Treats such world and such people as "his clan", but can position himself as the "godfather." Existing in such microcosm he will put it in opposition with the "alien" worlds that do not share his principles. This person is aware of the need to maintain inner harmony, but rarely succeeds in this task, often swerves off the course and heads somewhere else. To keep it he needs someone who will intervene and extinguish these "flashes", who will reason through them and calm him down, something like: "Why are you so wound up? Everything is fine, it's good. " Poorly predictable in his behaviors for this reason, you never which mood will hover over him today and what he will do for this reason.


So Se base problems arises from their internally suggestive Ni turmoil? Odd to me nonetheless but I can see how it manifests externally... Even Se demonstratives go through it in a little bit different form.
Can you describe it how it is inside? How one controls it correctly without assistance?
Sounds to me that they use the power externally but inside they are powerless.
In this light I can see the contradiction and conflict of being torn between two worlds.


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