# The IDEA that college is worthless for every SINGLE PERSON



## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

There seems to be this idea that college is worthless and everyone who goes to college hoping for better career aspects are wasting time. I have currently worked several different company's and managed different businesses. Along with this have a ton of volunteer events I have hosted and experience helping run events for charity organizations to help the community. I however commonly get shut down by employers since I did not have the correct titles or or the right education and so I entered college. Recently got evicted by my shady landlord and now am struggling since I had to move else where. People keep suggesting just quit school but if I do I am stuck in the same boat that keeps putting me back into homelessness. I keep getting told over and over that I can not get a raise or I did not qualify for a position because of lack of schooling or lack of title. Even if I literally have every skill listed in whatever title they are asking for. Is school really as worthless as people think?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

No, No, No! It isn't worthless for everyone, but it isn't for everyone either. This is a knee-jerk reaction to the idea that EVERYONE must go to college. We've done that, and now the skilled trades are thinning out. College has its uses. 

Here's what I figure my undergrad really was about: advanced reference skills, broadening general knowledge, and demonstrating commitment. I didn't have to know everything, I just needed to know how to look it up, but I also had to know more in order to know how to look things up. I also had to prove I could finish what I started. That's really what college is about. It broadens the mind, sharpens the skills, and demonstrates that a person can finish what they start. 

Now grad school was a whole different ball of wax. The professors treated us so much better because we already had a degree. You don't go to grad school if you aren't committed to it, if you do, you won't last very long. Grad school takes all the general skills you learned in undergrad and focuses them into a specific area. Going for a doctorate means you want to become a content area expert on a specific subject.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

I've never seen or heard anyone say that college is worthless for _everyone_. That seems an unlikely opinion since we'd have no medical doctors.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

MisterDexter said:


> There seems to be this idea that college is worthless and everyone who goes to college hoping for better career aspects are wasting time. I have currently worked several different company's and managed different businesses. Along with this have a ton of volunteer events I have hosted and experience helping run events for charity organizations to help the community. I however commonly get shut down by employers since I did not have the correct titles or or the right education and so I entered college. Recently got evicted by my shady landlord and now am struggling since I had to move else where. People keep suggesting just quit school but if I do I am stuck in the same boat that keeps putting me back into homelessness. I keep getting told over and over that I can not get a raise or I did not qualify for a position because of lack of schooling or lack of title. Even if I literally have every skill listed in whatever title they are asking for. Is school really as worthless as people think?


It's simple, your career that you can only get by first getting a college degree must out earn a career that does not require a college degree minus the total student debt. If your career that requires a college degree cannot out earn careers that does not require a college degree minus student debts then college is pretty much useless from a financial perspective.


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## 17041704 (May 28, 2020)

I have met a few who look down on those who go to college especially if they are also business owners.

They believe it is a waste of time because there are plenty of people earning a lot of money without a degree, they all told me something along the line that they dont understand why everyone is wasting time and money in college when they could be doing something useful.

I figured we have different interpretations of what is considered "useful". I don't know what they have seen or experienecd but I guess they have lost faith in education as a way to improve people's lives somehow.

Another way for me to interpret "_college is worthless and everyone who goes to college hoping for better career aspects are wasting time_" maybe they meant to say we should not rely on education to get ahead because everyone has a degree nowadays so even if you go to college you are not better than everyone else so it's some kind of wishful thinking?

idk I'm just trying to understand their POVs.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

17041704 said:


> I have met a few who look down on those who go to college especially if they are also business owners.
> 
> They believe it is a waste of time because there are plenty of people earning a lot of money without a degree, they all told me something along the line that they dont understand why everyone is wasting time and money in college when they could be doing something useful.
> 
> ...


I have not been able to get anywhere since I lack education. I have done jobs they should have paid someone with college and training to do but they gave it to me and paid me way less. I couldn't argue for more money since I don't have an education so I do not deserve the money. Its a little ridiculous how our stupid system works.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

MisterDexter said:


> I have not been able to get anywhere since I lack education. I have done jobs they should have paid someone with college and training to do but they gave it to me and paid me way less. I couldn't argue for more money since I don't have an education so I do not deserve the money. Its a little ridiculous how our stupid system works.


Well, if you want some advice on how to fix that, I'm here. I was a terrible student in public school because they didn't teach the way my brain works. My grades were so bad out of High School that I joined the U.S. Navy and left 21 days later. I was still 17 at the time. 4 years in the Navy gave me some understanding of what I would need to navigate the rest of my life and then I went to college and managed to get much better grades. I even got a masters degree too, so you can fix this any time you want. You just have to want it and work for it.


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## 17041704 (May 28, 2020)

MisterDexter said:


> I have not been able to get anywhere since I lack education. I have done jobs they should have paid someone with college and training to do but they gave it to me and paid me way less. I couldn't argue for more money since I don't have an education so I do not deserve the money. Its a little ridiculous how our stupid system works.


yea thats why in a way i think we should get the papers because even if its stupid
at least people cannot use this as an excuse anymore


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

MisterDexter said:


> There seems to be this idea that college is worthless and everyone who goes to college hoping for better career aspects are wasting time. I have currently worked several different company's and managed different businesses. Along with this have a ton of volunteer events I have hosted and experience helping run events for charity organizations to help the community. I however commonly get shut down by employers since I did not have the correct titles or or the right education and so I entered college. Recently got evicted by my shady landlord and now am struggling since I had to move else where. People keep suggesting just quit school but if I do I am stuck in the same boat that keeps putting me back into homelessness. I keep getting told over and over that I can not get a raise or I did not qualify for a position because of lack of schooling or lack of title. Even if I literally have every skill listed in whatever title they are asking for. Is school really as worthless as people think?


If your own experience tells you otherwise then should you really care what other people think about going to college/university? Your own experience tells you otherwise.

As for me, even if I end up working in a field outside of what I went to school for (which is what I'm hoping for since the company and industry I'm hoping to go back to is great for me and my family and I'm fairly high up and well respected too) getting a higher education still was worth it by far. For most better paying jobs you simply need your degree and that's the only requirement, it doesn't matter what you majored in unless it's a technical position or there's a lot of competition for the job.

I think you should do your best to stay in school. You could always defer for 6 months or a year to save up more money but don't quit, you've put yourself on a path toward a better life for yourself, don't give up on it because it's hard right now. Although being homeless is a fairly dire situation so getting out of that situation should be your first priority. Try to continue going to school though.


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## Rascal01 (May 22, 2016)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Well, if you want some advice on how to fix that, I'm here. I was a terrible student in public school because they didn't teach the way my brain works. My grades were so bad out of High School that I joined the U.S. Navy and left 21 days later. I was still 17 at the time. 4 years in the Navy gave me some understanding of what I would need to navigate the rest of my life and then I went to college and managed to get much better grades. I even got a masters degree too, so you can fix this any time you want. You just have to want it and work for it.


I did pretty much the same thing and it changed my life. Consider a community college and getting a 2 year degree. It gets you a degree and counts toward your undergraduate degree. You may get some credit for life experience. Also consider a hitch in the military. Military service is good for college credits and some military occupations can land you a good job and a substantial number of credits.

Homeless and dissatisfied is a tough spot to be in. Hitting bottom is an eye-opener. You really don’t want to go down that road.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Scoobyscoob said:


> If your own experience tells you otherwise then should you really care what other people think about going to college/university? Your own experience tells you otherwise.
> 
> As for me, even if I end up working in a field outside of what I went to school for (which is what I'm hoping for since the company and industry I'm hoping to go back to is great for me and my family and I'm fairly high up and well respected too) getting a higher education still was worth it by far. For most better paying jobs you simply need your degree and that's the only requirement, it doesn't matter what you majored in unless it's a technical position or there's a lot of competition for the job.
> 
> I think you should do your best to stay in school. You could always defer for 6 months or a year to save up more money but don't quit, you've put yourself on a path toward a better life for yourself, don't give up on it because it's hard right now. Although being homeless is a fairly dire situation so getting out of that situation should be your first priority. Try to continue going to school though.


Since everyone keeps saying its a waste of time and I am going to not be able to find better work anyways and if I dont find better work I am doomed but I also need enough hours to pay rent.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

MisterDexter said:


> Since everyone keeps saying its a waste of time and I am going to not be able to find better work anyways and if I dont find better work I am doomed but I also need enough hours to pay rent.


If you work a trade or a craft then higher education may hold questionable value, but if you're going to school to major in something then that certainly is not true and getting your degree will result in you getting better paying jobs.


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

One approach is to figure out what job you want and do what's required to get it, and it may or may not require a college degree.

If you want to be an entrepreneur and start a business and just be a boss then there's no real qualification for it, but you do have to produce results. Some people learn through experience in trying to run a business, learn at university, learn from books or combo of all above.

But working for a boss seems to require qualifications - depends. They're just strangers hiring other strangers they don't know. How else can one quickly tell if one can do the job? Unless the boss knows the employee then that's different.

Occupations like doctor or lawyer you obviously can't just google it or wing it.

So it all depends really. Blanket statements just don't apply to complex things 100%.

I did study something else but I didn't formally study what I'm doing know. I picked it up on the job and started my own business so I don't need to prove my worth with qualifications. But if I was seeking employment under someone else it might be more challenging. But my clients can clearly tell I'm skilled at what I do and just care that I can deliver results rather than "how" I'm doing it.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Well one thing I can say is that having an education doesn't warrant the smug feelings of superiority that it gives some people. Like I once had a mental health case worker through my county tell me that he thinks he knows me better than I know myself because he has an education. So I'm automatically stupid and not self-aware because I lack education?


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Scoobyscoob said:


> If you work a trade or a craft then higher education may hold questionable value, but if you're going to school to major in something then that certainly is not true and getting your degree will result in you getting better paying jobs.


Trade is a technical skill which is tuaght. Not everyone magically processes it.


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## Joe Black (Apr 1, 2015)

Ock said:


> Well one thing I can say is that having an education doesn't warrant the smug feelings of superiority that it gives some people. Like I once had a mental health case worker through my county tell me that he thinks he knows me better than I know myself because he has an education. So I'm automatically stupid and not self-aware because I lack education?


Yeah, it's not bad to be "educated" but what in exactly? A person can be an "educated" in all sorts of things like comedy, being a clown, or being a magician, chemistry, astrophysics, psychology, singing, dancing, public speaking etc
(I'm just using the term education/educated loosely to just mean to know stuff)

When people think of an "educated person" I'm guessing they mean that you can read, write, know a bit of grammar, how to reason and argue properly, do basic arithmetic, know the countries and continents, general awareness of your own history and general world history, basic concept of science, how to use a computer. etc. Basic skills to live in modern civilization.

Then "higher education" I guess just broadly means honing in on skills required to make a living and be of service in society in certain areas.

BUT THEN... there's this strange bit in between where we all have to be really good at a specific set of arbitrary knowledge and skills (that isn't all useful) but mainly a method to prove that we're worthy of serving society in a specific way and make a certain level of income. And some roles in society care and some don't about this arbitrary value.

In the end, we've ended up creating a system (or a game) that we have to learn to "beat". In the wild, we had to learn to beat nature and survive, now we have to beat our own convoluted game that probably started off with good intentions.and now it sometimes makes no sense


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

MisterDexter said:


> Trade is a technical skill which is tuaght. Not everyone magically processes it.


You typically don't need to go to college or university to learn a trade. Going to trade school or going straight to work is good enough.


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## Rascal01 (May 22, 2016)

Absolutely. Personal talents and gifts vary, and they are key tools in locating satisfying employment. Not everyone is suited to college or a white collar career. Besudes, the trades can pay crazy money, allow for side jobs and teach skills useful in your own home.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

MisterDexter said:


> Since everyone keeps saying its a waste of time and I am going to not be able to find better work anyways and if I dont find better work I am doomed but I also need enough hours to pay rent.


Everyone did NOT say that. I even offered to help you if you wanted to pursue it. My undergrad is in Secondary Education Communications with a Minor in Theatre. My graduate degree is in Computer Information Systems.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Scoobyscoob said:


> You typically don't need to go to college or university to learn a trade. Going to trade school or going straight to work is good enough.


Trade school is in fact a school. Generally you also have to pay for one the same you would a University.


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## Rascal01 (May 22, 2016)

MisterDexter said:


> Trade school is in fact a school. Generally you also have to pay for one the same you would a University.


Yes, that’s true to a degree. But community colleges often teach trades and technical prorams besides general education. Community college costs are generally significantly less than 4 year schools. And trade unions often have apprentice programs.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

MisterDexter said:


> Trade school is in fact a school. Generally you also have to pay for one the same you would a University.


Yes and there are scholarships, grants, and loans available. I can think of one right of the top of my head (if that's the way you want to go). Mike Rowe from "Dirty Jobs" has a foundation that helps people get into the trades. 









mikeroweWORKS Foundation


America is profoundly disconnected. We’re working to change that.




www.mikeroweworks.org


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

MisterDexter said:


> Trade school is in fact a school. Generally you also have to pay for one the same you would a University.


I think that's fairly well assumed since trade school is called trade *school*. It's in the name. 😉 College/university is often times several times more expensive than a trade school, so if your goal is to learn a trade, you can graduate quicker and spend less on tuition to learn your trade/craft.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Scoobyscoob said:


> I think that's fairly well assumed since trade school is called trade *school*. It's in the name. 😉 College/university is often times several times more expensive than a trade school, so if your goal is to learn a trade, you can graduate quicker and spend less on tuition to learn your trade/craft.


Of course trade school is less.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

MisterDexter said:


> Of course trade school is less.


It's less expensive yes and is that what you're doing?


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

College is great for many things. The idea that college is worthless is mostly based on the idea that the only goal in life is to maximise the amount of money in your bank account. If that's your only goal, college might not be the best way. However, there are so many aspects to college that are much more valuable than the chance to earn as much money as possible.


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Drecon said:


> College is great for many things. The idea that college is worthless is mostly based on the idea that the only goal in life is to maximise the amount of money in your bank account. If that's your only goal, college might not be the best way. However, there are so many aspects to college that are much more valuable than the chance to earn as much money as possible.


If someone has 0 marketable hard skills and no higher education how do you expect them to make more than minimum wage?


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## Rascal01 (May 22, 2016)

Don’t let your self-perceived limitations bog you down. Don’t dwell on the negative.

Where I live people seem unwilling to return to the workplace after Covid. Employers are begging for help. Put your best foot forward and go job hunting. Project confidence and be politely aggressive as you seek employment. Spruce up, dress the part and go job hunting.

Remove anything from your person that may be seen in a negative light. Looking for a job with metalwork through your nose or an unkempt appearance will not be in your favor. Appear desirable as a potential employee. Look like an interested contributor to whatever it is they are doing. Doing a bit of research about the business or company may be helpful.

I know that being down and out while you barely make ends meet is one of life’s most trying times. You cannot afford the luxury of gloom and self-pity. Necessity is the mother of invention. You need to get creative and busy.

One thing I learned when I turned my life around was that it does not matter how many ‘No’s’ you hear. They do not matter. One ‘Yes’ can change your life.

People here are offering you help as you help yourself but you must act in your own interest.

It’s time to get to work on improving your quality of life. You have nothing to lose but your present condition, What you will gain with each success includes increasing levels of self-respect. You are past due to move yourself forward into more favorable circumstances. Act in your own behalf.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I am not of either opinion entirely.

It does sort of depend on what people want to do.

My stepson wants to be a construction manager. That doesn’t require a 4 yr degree. Hell it doesn’t even require a degree necessarily. I advised him he should be starting with a 2 year degree at a technical college. Take some classes that have to do with construction management right away to see if it even tastes right after sitting in class. I also told him to consider a Cad class just to see if maybe drafting may interest him.

My brother got a quality assurance position making 6 figures from a certification that took less than 6 months total. So he’s a great example of someone who didn’t have to do long tenure in school and got a certification and a good job. Shit most people I know who went thru more school don’t even make what he does. But he also travels all the time. And works for a controversial industry that may belly up at anytime.

My eldest daughter is tossed up between teaching, social work, or public relations. All those positions require some schooling. I told her she should consider a quick easy certification in something in cosmetics or something to have a decent cash flow while going to school for her full degree. I told her I think she reconsider a focus on teaching and get a more general degree overall and if she still wants to teach then extend on for teaching. Mainly because any teachers I know of in RL couldn’t stand their jobs long term. Regardless my daughter has already been working in human services field and teaching just in highschool. Because I told her she would want it on her resume. So she worked in youth programming, and was a dance teacher. As well as a caregiver. So already getting experience before a degree is my point.

My youngest daughter wants to be an engineer. At 14 she understands it looks good for her to take robotics and join drafting classes. As well as Industrial Arts. She plans to work on her technical degree in drafting while in completion of highschool getting the credits towards highschool graduation as well as her two yr technical degree. So she can be two years in toward her 4 year engineering degree.

Me I’m a great example of someone who did not complete their degree but managed to navigate the system. But I’m very few and far between. I don’t mean that in a self boasting way. I mean it in a very real and honest way. I made clear to my kids they need a trade and skill or an education in order to eliminate some of the hell Ive gone thru to get to the mediocrity level I am now. Yes now I worked my way to mediocre level of admin stuff. But it was not without a lot of grief that I could have skipped some of had I just finished my fucking degree. And I’m saying that as someone with 3 years undergrad that I can at least put on my resume. Thank goodness my kids have seen the hoops I’ve had to jump thru and how I broke thru the fricken ceiling in order to not just get ahead but survive. Because it’s a reference for them to know what they don’t want to have to endure in exhaustion, fatigue, determination, literally blood, sweat, and tears.

Of course you need either a skill, trade, or education and certification in order for it to be easiest. The way I did it is not easiest. And I’ve seen few and far between who actually break thru any threshold without having a skill, trade, or education.

I do think you should however consider looking into community support. I don’t mean this mean. I’ve just seen you posting about being fired, homelessness, etc. And directing focus at bosses and landlords. I’d urge you to consult some community support. So you can work somethings out in order to succeed in getting your degree and completing school.


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

MisterDexter said:


> If someone has 0 marketable hard skills and no higher education how do you expect them to make more than minimum wage?


Maybe minimum wage can be good enough for a lot of people (although it depends a lot on the country you live if that's a humane standard of living of course). There are other things that make life worth living, and some of them don't cost money. The ones that do, can maybe be budgeted.

That said, I mistakenly assumed that this was about university rather than all forms of college. Let's put it to me not being a native speaker. I think some form of higher education. On my previous reply I didn't fully realize that something like a technical college also qualifies as a college. I think some form of education beyond high school adds a lot of value to life and your chances at living the kind of life you choose. 
So, you can read my previous comment as a reply to the idea that university is necessarily better than less theoretical colleges. (I still struggle to find my words to say what I want across the language barrier, I hope it comes across now)


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## 497882 (Nov 6, 2017)

Drecon said:


> Maybe minimum wage can be good enough for a lot of people (although it depends a lot on the country you live if that's a humane standard of living of course). There are other things that make life worth living, and some of them don't cost money. The ones that do, can maybe be budgeted.
> 
> That said, I mistakenly assumed that this was about university rather than all forms of college. Let's put it to me not being a native speaker. I think some form of higher education. On my previous reply I didn't fully realize that something like a technical college also qualifies as a college. I think some form of education beyond high school adds a lot of value to life and your chances at living the kind of life you choose.
> So, you can read my previous comment as a reply to the idea that university is necessarily better than less theoretical colleges. (I still struggle to find my words to say what I want across the language barrier, I hope it comes across now)


You live under a rock dont you? You realize that most minumum wage workers can't afford housing so you are saying everyone deserves homelessness. You need to wake up and go outside. The world doesn't work how you think it does. Rent is too high in most areas and the idea that minumum wage workers wanting to earn more income for the sake of money is a joke. If Minimum wage is 2000 a month and rent is 1500-2500 a month for one bedroom do you think you can budget that? No you can not


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## Drecon (Jun 20, 2016)

MisterDexter said:


> You live under a rock dont you? You realize that most minumum wage workers can't afford housing so you are saying everyone deserves homelessness. You need to wake up and go outside. The world doesn't work how you think it does. Rent is too high in most areas and the idea that minumum wage workers wanting to earn more income for the sake of money is a joke. If Minimum wage is 2000 a month and rent is 1500-2500 a month for one bedroom do you think you can budget that? No you can not


As I said, it depends on the country you live in. I've seen enough of the USA to believe that the things you're describing are happening there. It's just not representative for western Europe. 
In short: I believe you, it's just not something I can experience. The Netherlands has a well-working welfare system. There are problems that need to be adressed, but it's nowhere near the nightmare that I hear the USA is. 

And it's true that I've never experienced that. I experience the USA through movies and TV series. I've never been there. In my own country I've lived on welfare, have experienced towering student loans and it was easy for me to bounce back. Yes, I'm a white guy with a decent education and I realize that that's also a very important factor in my own country, but it's at least clear that it's not as bad here as on your side of the ocean.


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## mahjoubsentence (7 mo ago)

My experience has shown that you will not be hired anywhere without a school and will not be promoted. In my case, my education helped me. I worked before I got my diploma, and it was very hard to get a better position without the right education. I'm glad I managed to get a degree from asa florida college. It was difficult to get a degree with me working, but I had to do it. There were many hard days when I wanted to give up, but every time I got rejected for a better position gave me the motivation to never give up on my degree. I don't think you should give up because your degree will be worth a lot.


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