# The Walking Dead (TV)



## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

Subscribed to thread! 


I don't have an opinion due to the fact that it isn't fresh in my mind, and because the writing was so shitty. Such a great premise, such a shitty execution. I really hope this second season is a LOT better! I also didn't appreciate such a long wait for a second season.


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## soya (Jun 29, 2010)

I prefer the comic, but I can't pretend I don't like watching a zombie TV show.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> Subscribed to thread!
> 
> 
> I don't have an opinion due to the fact that it isn't fresh in my mind, and because the writing was so shitty. Such a great premise, such a shitty execution. I really hope this second season is a LOT better! I also didn't appreciate such a long wait for a second season.


Shitty writing? Are you on crack?


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

TreeBob said:


> Shitty writing? Are you on crack?


The premise of the show is great, the writing was garbage. That seems to be the general consensus. Hence why the writers for the show were fired. Before I comment on the terrible writing, I'd like to point out two things first.

1) I'm a HUGE horror movie fan. I particularly love the zombie sub-genre. With that said, I'm used to stupid characters. The fact that I can figure out the solution to a problem in 2 minutes by myself, that a dozen people can't figure out in 2 months, is something that all horror movie fans must learn to accept. So with that said, I won't comment on how all of the characters are complete idiots.

2) I don't read comic books and I never have. I didn't even know that the comic series existed until the show was made. So I won't be commenting on the writing not following the comic books. Though in fairness, from what the comic book fans say they've done a terrible job on that front also. 


Examples of terrible writing from the show...

- The brother chopping off his own hand plot and them going back to him just to find him gone was completely stupid.

- The pretend gangsters who are protecting the elderly plot was stupid.

- The CDC plot with the one lone survivor who wanted them to all die with him was stupid.

- Him finding his wife and son so easily was absurd.

- The dress up like zombies then have it rain so that way the zombies could smell them again was silly.

- The crazy guy dream premonition was stupid.

In a nutshell, pretty much every plot the show has had has been stupid. The premise is great, very entertaining, but it is little more than a poorly written soap opera with zombies. I'd like to see a lot more from them this second season, but my hopes aren't too high. The premier, while very entertaining, seems to be going down the same road as the first season. A soap opera with a lot of shitty and unnecessary subplots.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> The premise of the show is great, the writing was garbage. That seems to be the general consensus. Hence why the writers for the show were fired. Before I comment on the terrible writing, I'd like to point out two things first.
> 
> 1) I'm a HUGE horror movie fan. I particularly love the zombie sub-genre. With that said, I'm used to stupid characters. The fact that I can figure out the solution to a problem in 2 minutes by myself, that a dozen people can't figure out in 2 months, is something that all horror movie fans must learn to accept. So with that said, I won't comment on how all of the characters are complete idiots.
> 
> ...


I've read the comic and I had been anticipating the TV show, I bolded the "stupid writing" that wasn't in the comic book.

I know people will bitch about how much it hasn't followed the comic book, of course I have my own problems with it (I really disliked the CDC part). Though I do think it's good that they have changed some of it so that there are fresh and unexpected surprises that aren't in the comic/TV show. If you read the comic book, they've cut out a few characters already. There are also new characters in the TV show. Some characters I like and some I wish they wouldn't have cut out.

A problem I foresee is that they will get too offtrack with where they're taking this. Some of the characters in the TV show are not acting like their characters in the comic book. That's why I think trying to type them at all is futile. There's a whole new set of writers who are developing these characters.


Also if I missed anything in that list that was/wasn't in the show, it's been more than two years since I read the first volume.

PS They stayed near the city because Glenn would scavenge for food, none of them had good enough survival skills. The zombies also ate some of the wildlife, making it more scarce (other movies usually have zombies focusing only on humans, never animals - it's all fiction though). Therefore it made it easier for Rick to find them. I also don't think the comic book writer wanted to spend volumes on him finding his family for the story to take off.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

Fizz said:


> I've read the comic and I had been anticipating the TV show, I bolded the "stupid writing" that wasn't in the comic book.
> 
> I know people will bitch about how much it hasn't followed the comic book, of course I have my own problems with it (I really disliked the CDC part). Though I do think it's good that they have changed some of it so that there are fresh and unexpected surprises that aren't in the comic/TV show. If you read the comic book, they've cut out a few characters already. There are also new characters in the TV show. Some characters I like and some I wish they wouldn't have cut out.
> 
> ...



I see where you're coming from. The movie is never as good as the book. Hollywood likes to take a lot of "liberties" and even if they didn't want to, they simply don't have the time and the ability to go into as much detail. I'm sure it is probably the same with the show vs. comic book aspect of it. 

Some movies do have zombies eating animals, but you're right, that is quite rare. The WTF?! moment for me is the fact that they can actually catch the animals. Have you ever tried walking up to a wild animal? Most of them don't let you get anywhere near close enough to eat them. Also I'm not buying that they would really have that much trouble finding food. If this were more realistic, there would be a LOT more survivors and the lack of food would make sense. But between the quick onset of this all, coupled with most people being dead, food and water should be easy to find.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> I see where you're coming from. The movie is never as good as the book. Hollywood likes to take a lot of "liberties" and even if they didn't want to, they simply don't have the time and the ability to go into as much detail. I'm sure it is probably the same with the show vs. comic book aspect of it.
> 
> Some movies do have zombies eating animals, but you're right, that is quite rare. The WTF?! moment for me is the fact that they can actually catch the animals. Have you ever tried walking up to a wild animal? Most of them don't let you get anywhere near close enough to eat them. Also I'm not buying that they would really have that much trouble finding food. If this were more realistic, there would be a LOT more survivors and the lack of food would make sense. But between the quick onset of this all, coupled with most people being dead, food and water should be easy to find.


I think I would get bored and make snark filled comments at the TV if they followed it exactly. I was expecting things to happen in season one that have not happened yet. I obviously won't say what, but I have this feeling they'll avoid it altogether if they can.

I almost tried to spell "sometimes with a Z", I need to stop that. Sometimes the zombies will swarm the animals and they cannot get away. Again, I won't give examples because I'm not sure it will even be in the TV show. I've seen plenty of zombie films so I just check the comic book and TV show against other movies. The main problem with water is finding clean water, people also drink a lot more water in the hot weather. The comic book is actually during the winter at the moment it's at in the TV show, where it's during summer. That is why they began moving away from the camp, cold weather and all the zombies.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

Fizz said:


> I think I would get bored and make snark filled comments at the TV if they followed it exactly. I was expecting things to happen in season one that have not happened yet. I obviously won't say what, but I have this feeling they'll avoid it altogether if they can.
> 
> I almost tried to spell "sometimes with a Z", I need to stop that. Sometimes the zombies will swarm the animals and they cannot get away. Again, I won't give examples because I'm not sure it will even be in the TV show. I've seen plenty of zombie films so I just check the comic book and TV show against other movies. The main problem with water is finding clean water, people also drink a lot more water in the hot weather. The comic book is actually during the winter at the moment it's at in the TV show, where it's during summer. That is why they began moving away from the camp, cold weather and all the zombies.


A really good example of this is Return of the Living Dead 2 where the "Super-Zombies" break into a pet store and start eating the animals there. :laughing: One of them runs afters a dog, but can't catch it as I recall. But even working together, which would require tactical intelligence which the zombies lack, even then humans haven't evolved to take down animals that way. Even our ancestors from pre-history used bows and arrows, and before that they threw spears, and before that they simply used spears. The idea of a bunch of people, even working together, being able to corner a large animal and take it down with their mouths would be virtually impossible.

Also I wasn't talking about river water for example, I meant bottled water and things like that should be plentiful. Even if all the gas stations and such were raided, virtually everybody being dead so quick would result in there being loads of bottled drinks to be found. Same with canned goods, and food that hasn't expired yet.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> A really good example of this is Return of the Living Dead 2 where the "Super-Zombies" break into a pet store and start eating the animals there. :laughing: One of them runs afters a dog, but can't catch it as I recall. But even working together, which would require tactical intelligence which the zombies lack, even then humans haven't evolved to take down animals that way. Even our ancestors from pre-history used bows and arrows, and before that they threw spears, and before that they simply used spears. The idea of a bunch of people, even working together, being able to corner a large animal and take it down with their mouths would be virtually impossible.
> 
> Also I wasn't talking about river water for example, I meant bottled water and things like that should be plentiful. Even if all the gas stations and such were raided, virtually everybody being dead so quick would result in there being loads of bottled drinks to be found. Same with canned goods, and food that hasn't expired yet.


Another example would be Night of the Living Dead (1968), the zombies were shown to be eating bugs they found on the ground. Now that's what I call desperation. OH, totally just remembered Brain Dead/Dead Alive (1992). A dog was eaten in that movie, if you haven't seen it, you're missing out.

Glenn is only one man, he's the only one gutsy enough to go into the city to support the camp. I think he can basically carry all that fits into his backpack, but not too much as to avoid weighing him down.

I almost feel like this all needs its own thread.


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## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Fizz said:


> I almost feel like this all needs its own thread.


Wish granted


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

Fizz said:


> Another example would be Night of the Living Dead (1968), the zombies were shown to be eating bugs they found on the ground. Now that's what I call desperation. OH, totally just remembered Brain Dead/Dead Alive (1992). A dog was eaten in that movie, if you haven't seen it, you're missing out.
> 
> Glenn is only one man, he's the only one gutsy enough to go into the city to support the camp. I think he can basically carry all that fits into his backpack, but not too much as to avoid weighing him down.
> 
> I almost feel like this all needs its own thread.


Also, I'm not sure which Night of the Living Dead it was (original or remake, but I'm leaning toward remake), the zombies eat a mouse or rat. And I did see Dead Alive ages ago, I thought it was HIGHLY overrated among zombie fans. 

And Glenn is probably the only character that isn't, at best, functionally retarded.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> Also, I'm not sure which Night of the Living Dead it was (original or remake, but I'm leaning toward remake), the zombies eat a mouse or rat. And I did see Dead Alive ages ago, I thought it was HIGHLY overrated among zombie fans.
> 
> And Glenn is probably the only character that isn't, at best, functionally retarded.


It might have been the remake of NOTLD because I don't recall seeing a mouse/rat being eaten. I don't think I've actually watched it all the way through, I'm not a fan of remakes. It's been a while since you've seen Dead Alive, maybe it's good now? I have the same problem when people cream their pants over a movie and then demand I see it.

He's one of my favorite characters from the comic book, there's some stupider people in the book. Though I find that to be more realistic. When people are in panic mode, they don't usually make very good decisions.


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## Souljorn (Dec 28, 2010)

Niccolo Machiavelli said:


> The premise of the show is great, the writing was garbage. That seems to be the general consensus. Hence why the writers for the show were fired. Before I comment on the terrible writing, I'd like to point out two things first.
> 
> 1) I'm a HUGE horror movie fan. I particularly love the zombie sub-genre. With that said, I'm used to stupid characters. The fact that I can figure out the solution to a problem in 2 minutes by myself, that a dozen people can't figure out in 2 months, is something that all horror movie fans must learn to accept. So with that said, I won't comment on how all of the characters are complete idiots.
> 
> ...


I agree, and the end of the first episode of the 2nd season was equally as stupid. They come into a deeer and they let the boy approach it with a knife just to get shot is not only stupid but implausible. It can only lead me to the conclusion that the girl is with however shot the deer.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Souljorn said:


> I agree, and the end of the first episode of the 2nd season was equally as stupid. They come into a deeer and they let the boy approach it with a knife just to get shot is not only stupid but implausible. It can only lead me to the conclusion that the girl is with however shot the deer.


Nope. I can explain what happened there, it wouldn't really spoil anything. Though Andrea is actually a good shot in the comic book, they make her seem incompetent in the TV show.


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## Souljorn (Dec 28, 2010)

Fizz said:


> Nope. I can explain what happened there, it wouldn't really spoil anything. Though Andrea is actually a good shot in the comic book, they make her seem incompetent in the TV show.


Andrea didn't shoot him, it was only the boy, his dad, and his partner and they run into a deer and the little boy starts walking towards the deer and he looks back at his dad and he nods at him to keep going then when he gets close to the deer it gets shot from the opposite side the bullet goes through the deer and hits him. I've never seem a deer stand so still in my life and letting a 8 yr old approach a buck with only a knife has to be the best parenting ever.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Souljorn said:


> Andrea didn't shoot him, it was only the boy, his dad, and his partner and they run into a deer and the little boy starts walking towards the deer and he looks back at his dad and he nods at him to keep going then when he gets close to the deer it gets shot from the opposite side the bullet goes through the deer and hits him. I've never seem a deer stand so still in my life and letting a 8 yr old approach a buck with only a knife has to be the best parenting ever.


I've seen the TV show (the episode you're talking about too) and I've read the comic book, you misinterpreted what I said.


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## Souljorn (Dec 28, 2010)

Fizz said:


> I've seen the TV show (the episode you're talking about too) and I've read the comic book, you misinterpreted what I said.


I may have, I was more or less showing an example of shitty writing


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## Sillia Rosa (Apr 9, 2011)

I like the show...
The CDC part was really cool I thought


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## Kriash (May 5, 2011)

I like it. I love zombies, so there really isn't much that could keep me from liking the show. That being said, I do agree that some of the writing is terrible.

First season with the gangsters and old folks made me cringe, it was just so cheesy. I still like the show but I do hope that it gets better this season. Even if it doesn't- I'm sure I'll still be watching.


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## ItsAlwaysSunny (Dec 17, 2010)

Kriash said:


> I like it. I love zombies, so there really isn't much that could keep me from liking the show. That being said, I do agree that some of the writing is terrible.
> 
> *First season with the gangsters and old folks made me cringe, it was just so cheesy.* I still like the show but I do hope that it gets better this season. Even if it doesn't- I'm sure I'll still be watching.


I thought so too. It seemed like an easy way out to me: turn the gangsters into underground-heroes so that Rick and the crew don't actually have to fight there way out. But then again, I thought it was realistic that all the remaining survivors, in general, do have to step up and be badass in ways that they never thought they would.

I really do love this show. Who are you guys' favorite characters?
I like Daryl and Rick the best. I like Shane and Lori too, although a lot of people seem to hate them. Glenn's cool but the hasn't done anything this season. I hope they bring back Merle just for the drama and insanity he causes.

Oh, and I HATE ANDREA!! She's so annoying!


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## lllll (Jul 6, 2012)

Are there any clues from the graphic novel about the person who torched the zombies at night last episode?


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## Dracarys (Dec 31, 2012)

lllll said:


> Are there any clues from the graphic novel about the person who torched the zombies at night last episode?


I don't read the novels BUT I think it was Milton. At least that's where they're leading you to


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## lllll (Jul 6, 2012)

MyPrecious said:


> I don't read the novels BUT I think it was Milton. At least that's where they're leading you to


Whoa, I didn't think about him at all. That makes sense.


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## Dracarys (Dec 31, 2012)

Also, I like Tyrese.


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

MyPrecious said:


> Also, I like Tyrese.


I hate Tyrese, how he was and his group were all too ready to take arms against Rick when they arrived at Woodbury.


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## Dauntless (Nov 3, 2010)

I haven't seen either show, so is this funny?


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## Dracarys (Dec 31, 2012)

Striver said:


> I hate Tyrese, how he was and his group were all too ready to take arms against Rick when they arrived at Woodbury.


Actually it was Tyrese who stopped that one dude( the dad) from going after Rick's group. As far as going after Rick's group once he was in Woodburry, I think he just wanted to help and fit in. If you watched the last show you can see how he just doesn't take orders without asking why first. I hope he sticks around. 

Who's personality can you relate most in the show?


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## lllll (Jul 6, 2012)

MyPrecious said:


> Also, I like Tyrese.


But he can't shoot well. 

I really like him too, I hope we see him join Ricks group post crazy Rick. Is that girl Tyreses sister or daughter?


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

MyPrecious said:


> Actually it was Tyrese who stopped that one dude( the dad) from going after Rick's group. As far as going after Rick's group once he was in Woodburry, I think he just wanted to help and fit in. If you watched the last show you can see how he just doesn't take orders without asking why first. I hope he sticks around.
> 
> Who's personality can you relate most in the show?


That is true, I hate that dad guy, especially after this week's episode. I'd say I identify with Glenn because I'm a noob at relationships, leadership, and I'm Asian. Who do you identify with?



lllll said:


> But he can't shoot well.
> 
> I really like him too, I hope we see him join Ricks group post crazy Rick. Is that girl Tyreses sister or daughter?


I thought she was his wife when they first appeared on the show, but it seems like they're siblings.


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## Aubbs (Jun 12, 2012)

Why is everyone picking on Tyreese? Dude is boss. Like everyone else he is trying to find somewhere to finally settle down and have a part in something. But he has stated several times he will not fight Rick's group and you can tell after the incident with Andrea he is getting not everything is as it seems.
The Dad is the major problem, that guy is not all there and easily manipulated because he is too emotional and illogical. Oh yeah, also he is soo jealous of Tyreese, talk about penis envy...
Anyways I think Rick, Tyreese, Michone, and Daryl make a very victorious and intimadating team


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## kagemitsu (May 15, 2011)

Sadly I stumbled upon a spoiler on the next episode (with screencaps, so I know it's true).
Someone is going to die and turn into a walker, but since I'm a good guy I'm not gonna tell you who.


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## Infermiera (Mar 2, 2012)

kagemitsu said:


> Sadly I stumbled upon a spoiler on the next episode (with screencaps, so I know it's true).
> Someone is going to die and turn into a walker, but since I'm a good guy I'm not gonna tell you who.


I know what the spoiler is!!










hehehee This would really make the plot more interesting. :laughing:


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

kagemitsu said:


> Sadly I stumbled upon a spoiler on the next episode (with screencaps, so I know it's true).
> Someone is going to die and turn into a walker, but since I'm a good guy I'm not gonna tell you who.





Infermiera said:


> I know what the spoiler is!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Crap. I heard a general comment online about the same thing ("almost the end of the season, and no one has immunity, as we will find out!"), but I was hoping it was not to be so. Sigh. I like the current cast.

I hope it's Carol or Beth, they are the most expendible for me. But I fear it will be Maggie.
Also, considering how they've tarnished her character, it could be a mercy killing for the case of Andrea.
It wouldn't make any sense for Karl. I hope he's around a long time.

As a WTF completely crazy option, Rick gets turned and Merle takes over the group. Wouldn't that be a hoot?



Aubbs said:


> Why is everyone picking on Tyreese? Dude is boss. Like everyone else he is trying to find somewhere to finally settle down and have a part in something. But he has stated several times he will not fight Rick's group and you can tell after the incident with Andrea he is getting not everything is as it seems.
> The Dad is the major problem, that guy is not all there and easily manipulated because he is too emotional and illogical. Oh yeah, also he is soo jealous of Tyreese, talk about penis envy...


Yeah, that Dad is just a mental case -- way too insecure, can't deal with reality either. Everything you said about him.

I really like Tyresse. In an insane world, he is still not just sane but a good guy who wants to do right by people. He was the only guy who argued AGAINST trying to take Rick out, even though he admitted Rick was acting kind of crazy. If he gets the information he needs, he makes good decisions; it's just that he can be played at times BECAUSE he is so fair, until he gets all the correct info. How he handled Andrea's fleeing Woodbury is indicative of his kindness and fairness. ("WHat am I supposed to do? Shoot her in the back? She seems sane to me.")


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## Aubbs (Jun 12, 2012)

Oh she is definitely same but doesn't change the fact she is a backstabbing bitch who picked a man and his bed over a friend who saved her from being eaten a live. What irritates me too is that she didn't take her "family's" word on anything and tried to stick neutral when really she has already taken a side. 



Jennywocky said:


> Crap. I heard a general comment online about the same thing ("almost the end of the season, and no one has immunity, as we will find out!"), but I was hoping it was not to be so. Sigh. I like the current cast.
> 
> I hope it's Carol or Beth, they are the most expendible for me. But I fear it will be Maggie.
> Also, considering how they've tarnished her character, it could be a mercy killing for the case of Andrea.
> ...


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## Dracarys (Dec 31, 2012)

Pls no spoilers. D: 

I think this it for Andrea though unless Milton gets some balls and helps her D:
It might be Milton. AHHH fuck


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Saw it, not sure what to say even vaguely about character fates without giving people some idea, so ... spoiler tag for that stuff.


* *




That wasn't at all what I expected to see in this episode, and apparently lots of people wouldn't have expected it either. it wasn't bad, just... unexpected. 

Merle managed to take down quite a number of them. Pretty smart guy, tactically.

The last 30 seconds pretty much sucked for Daryl, though.

Looks like the writers didn't have the cajones to take out a core member this episode. I guess they're saving it all for the last, next week might be a bloodbath.




I will say we finally see Rick figuring out who he is and what he stands for, in comparison to the Guv'nor. Those decisions will resonate for many episodes to come.

I'll also say that I used to hate Carol, but she's really changed a lot and toughened up, so I no longer really have any issues with her. 

Looks, from the previews, that the season ender is the Real Deal. Next week, season finale. Buckle yourself in!



MyPrecious said:


> Pls no spoilers. D:
> 
> I think this it for Andrea though unless Milton gets some balls and helps her D:
> It might be Milton. AHHH fuck


Milton find some balls? What are the chances of THAT? lol


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

OMG. Was watching some behind-the-scenes clips on TWD and discovered that Andrew Lincoln (Rick) has a British accent. Hilarious, I had no idea! I love hearing Brits doing American accents, then switching back. It cracks me up. I have no idea how they do that.


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## Dracarys (Dec 31, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy shit!

* *




I really felt for Daryl whom I think is an ISTP might be wrong. Anyway, I'm sort of glad Merle is gone. I did not care for him that much, but I don't get why he basically went on a suicide mission when dude hacked his own hand off in order to live. Doesn't make sense.




Also, can someone explain why Rick is seeing things. He is aware that it's all in his mind, so I don't think he's mental.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Just watched the episode now... I felt sad for Merle and Daryl...


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

Merl wanted to get back at the Gov'ner and he didn't like the way Rick and the prison gang were doing things. He didn't belong there, but his brother did belong, so being the lone wolf that he is, he tried to finish the Gov'ner himself.

It looks like the Gov'ner is mobilizing for war and the prison gang is leaving. I wonder if they'll get out in time. :shocked:


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## Aubbs (Jun 12, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> I see the black dude dying. Martinez, something might actually happen with him. He did have that nice little male bonding experience with Daryl, but then again they do a lot of stuff like that, and it makes you think something's going to happen with a certain character. Like on the first episode of the season, Carl and Beth were developing a friendship, but nothing ever happened with that. nothing interesting ever happens with Beth, so they'll definitely kill her off next season, sadly.
> 
> I really don't know what the hell the Governor's doing. Because he never went back to Woodbury or the prison. Maybe they all decided to camp out somewhere and plan their next move. I do know they're both a little freaked out by the Governor going all GTA rampage, as someone else so elegantly put it. Martinez walked right into the back of the truck, and I've never seen a man so carefully get into a truck. I don't know, I'm hoping they do something with Martinez. Apparently they are with Karen, and she was just a minor character. The only thing is, he would be a black sheep like Merle in their group, but there are people from Woodbury there so maybe he would get accepted.
> 
> ...




I don't think they will kill off Beth anytime soon. She is needed in her own way which is the maternal part of the group that takes care of everyone, especially the baby, and she complete the group. I don't think Martinez will have that big of a problem with getting along with the group... Him Daryl did bond and the guy means well he was just used. 
Morgan is a weird case however, I don't think he will go with Rick or the Gov I think he will be in the mix of it but not taking sides. I think Tyreese will be more of an issue and Karen... especially seeing how Carl did kill her son.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Aubbs said:


> I don't think they will kill off Beth anytime soon. She is needed in her own way which is the maternal part of the group that takes care of everyone, especially the baby, and she complete the group. I don't think Martinez will have that big of a problem with getting along with the group... Him Daryl did bond and the guy means well he was just used.
> Morgan is a weird case however, I don't think he will go with Rick or the Gov I think he will be in the mix of it but not taking sides. I think Tyreese will be more of an issue and Karen... especially seeing how Carl did kill her son.


That kid wasn't Noah. He had a different name. Joel, or something. I have no idea what happened with Noah. I don't see how Tyrese and Karen will be problems. Remember, this is the new and improved Rick. Tyrese and Karen weren't on the Governor's side, Karen was even a victim. Martinez, however, he was The Governor's right hand man after Merle hit the road. Plus Martinez, even still hates them, even though Daryl and him had a nice conversation. He thinks they're rats and he was just as manipulated by the Governor as anybody else. 

And I completely disagree with Morgan, they could do so much with him when he comes back. He saved Rick's life and especially with the new Rick, he will never forget that. Once he is around people for a while and manages not to totally freak out people and write on walls for a few hours, he'll fit right in. They might even do something with him and Michonne. Or maybe Michonne and Tyrese, like in the comics. Although, I think Rick and Michonne might have a thing starting. With that conversation at the end of the stairs. 

But like I said, I think the Governor will find Morgan first and make it interesting that way.

Also, either Beth or Carol is going. I'm guessing Carol because of her conversation with Merle and God knows when a character on this show opens up their feelings, so does a pathway to their brains.


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## Dracarys (Dec 31, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> God knows when a character on this show opens up their feelings, so does a pathway to their brains.


lol, I noticed that.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Aubbs said:


> I think Tyreese will be more of an issue and Karen... especially seeing how Carl did kill her son.


Wait, that was her son? (I really kind of lost track who was who, with all the extras in Woodbury and people running all over the place.)

Yeah, that's not gonna play well.




ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> That kid wasn't Noah. He had a different name. Joel, or something.



Oh.Okay. Like I said, they're all a jumble of faces to me right now.




> I have no idea what happened with Noah. I don't see how Tyrese and Karen will be problems. Remember, this is the new and improved Rick. Tyrese and Karen weren't on the Governor's side, Karen was even a victim.



I agree with that. Tyresse in fact is very level headed and open, and Karen tends to go with whatever Tyresse thinks.




> Martinez, however, he was The Governor's right hand man after Merle hit the road. Plus Martinez, even still hates them, even though Daryl and him had a nice conversation. He thinks they're rats and he was just as manipulated by the Governor as anybody else.


yeah, I'm just not sure on Martinez. It was kinda funny watching his jaw hang in the breeze, though, after Gov'nur mowed down his own army.




> like I said, I think the Governor will find Morgan first and make it interesting that way.


definitely an interesting idea.




> Also, either Beth or Carol is going. I'm guessing Carol because of her conversation with Merle and God knows when a character on this show opens up their feelings, so does a pathway to their brains.


Carol's on borrowed time anyhoo. But Beth is pretty much a non-person right now. They just killed Andrea. Who knows? Your guess is as good as any.


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## Aubbs (Jun 12, 2012)

Oh yeah it it is Noah, but the woman was like "have you seen my son," weird. Tyreese peeves me out though he wasn't ever with the governor but I see Rick and him hitting heads all the time. Martinez is interesting and I don't think he really hates their group just says he does to go along with the Gov. But the whole killing everyone tantrum the Gov showed that they are all expendable and that he really doesn't care. Martinez also didn't do the horrible things Merle did to the group, sure he is clumped together with the Gov but he didn't beat Glenn up and leave him tied to a chair with a zombie or let Maggie get almost raped. He is a character that is able to change and become a good ally 




ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> That kid wasn't Noah. He had a different name. Joel, or something. I have no idea what happened with Noah. I don't see how Tyrese and Karen will be problems. Remember, this is the new and improved Rick. Tyrese and Karen weren't on the Governor's side, Karen was even a victim. Martinez, however, he was The Governor's right hand man after Merle hit the road. Plus Martinez, even still hates them, even though Daryl and him had a nice conversation. He thinks they're rats and he was just as manipulated by the Governor as anybody else.
> 
> And I completely disagree with Morgan, they could do so much with him when he comes back. He saved Rick's life and especially with the new Rick, he will never forget that. Once he is around people for a while and manages not to totally freak out people and write on walls for a few hours, he'll fit right in. They might even do something with him and Michonne. Or maybe Michonne and Tyrese, like in the comics. Although, I think Rick and Michonne might have a thing starting. With that conversation at the end of the stairs.
> 
> ...


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Aubbs said:


> Oh yeah it it is Noah, but the woman was like "have you seen my son," weird. Tyreese peeves me out though he wasn't ever with the governor but I see Rick and him hitting heads all the time. Martinez is interesting and I don't think he really hates their group just says he does to go along with the Gov. But the whole killing everyone tantrum the Gov showed that they are all expendable and that he really doesn't care. Martinez also didn't do the horrible things Merle did to the group, sure he is clumped together with the Gov but he didn't beat Glenn up and leave him tied to a chair with a zombie or let Maggie get almost raped. He is a character that is able to change and become a good ally


That kid looks nothing like Noah and his name was even said in the episode and it was not Noah. It was somebody different. 

I don't see why you think Tyrese and Rick won't get along, but Martinez will get right in with the group when Tyrese is a protagonist and Martinez as of right now is not.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> I don't see why you think Tyrese and Rick won't get along, but Martinez will get right in with the group when Tyrese is a protagonist and Martinez as of right now is not.


I agree with that. Tyresse and Rick will get along fine. The only reason they didn't the first time was because Rick was in "xenophobe / must expel the strangers from our midst!" mode and kinda nutball. Their final encounter at the gates of Woodbury was about the tensest situation possible, yet they made it past that, to the point where Tyresse came back with him. And now that Rick is in "government by and for the people" mode, Tyresse will be a voice of level-headed proportion.

Martinez is amoral. He kind of sells out to the highest bidder and who provides him with power to feel significant. He wasn't really into the Governor mowing down civilians, but he also wasn't caring much about the sneaky subterfuge going on during negotiations; it's all just part of the game to him. That doesn't mesh with Tyresse, for example, who is about being fair and open and trying to find the best outcome for everyone. A player won't fit as well with the prison crowd, where everyone is expected to be more communal. I think Martinez might not feel valuable there, where he is given no special recognition or power. He's not a horrible person, I really really liked that conversation he had with Daryl, but going to the prison would be a demotion for him... and since he was the Governor's right-hand guy and is responsible for the death of some of the prison crowd, well... no. I don't think he'd fit easily or be allowed to.


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> But Beth is pretty much a non-person right now.


But she was good for morale! Did you not like her singing?!

Anyways, not having read the comics, and ignoring most of the spoilers that have been posted, I'm wondering where Rick will acquire the resources to sustain his new flock of elderly and children.

Doing the right thing costs money! (well not money, but food, water, guns, and ammo)


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## INFJRoanna (Dec 20, 2012)

I love the tv show! I haven't read the comics but the show is one of my favorites. Personally, though I think they should have killed off the governor this season. I hate his character :frustrating:


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Striver said:


> But she was good for morale! Did you not like her singing?!


Wait, she sang? *doh*

Obviously she's really invisible then. I faintly recall it now, but it didn't register much.



> Anyways, not having read the comics, and ignoring most of the spoilers that have been posted, I'm wondering where Rick will acquire the resources to sustain his new flock of elderly and children. Doing the right thing costs money! (well not money, but food, water, guns, and ammo)


They'll have to clear out the prison grounds again and raise a formal garden.

Meat is another matter entirely. The zombies probably have stripped the nearby woods of all wildlife.

So that's the problem with the current way of the world. There is no trucking industry or transportation of product to and from the area. So if you have a stable base, you have to keep sending feelers out in wider and wider circles to locate resources, and eventually you strip them bare. 

The group would like have to move, in time, unless you can create renewable resources. With plants and water, yes, that's possible. But guns and ammo?



DerWahnsinn said:


> I love the tv show! I haven't read the comics but the show is one of my favorites. Personally, though I think they should have killed off the governor this season. I hate his character :frustrating:


I think the hugest problem with it is that they kept milking it as if they were going to, so any other outcome came off as a fizzle. The "invasion of the prison" they kept promoing involved mainly blowing up the observation towers and little else.


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> But guns and ammo?


For defense from the other baddies out there.


I had the feeling earlier on that the Governor would still be the main villain in season 4, but I'm not sure how that's going to turn out now, him having wasted his own power and all. But he is still alive..


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Striver said:


> For defense from the other baddies out there.


Lol! I know what it's _for_.

But it's not a renewable resource, at least not automatic / hi-tech weapons. Eventually they will either run out, or they'll have to travel too far to find more ammo and guns, so that they'll end up moving instead.

Maybe they could recreate the flintlock, though, if they had to.



> I had the feeling earlier on that the Governor would still be the main villain in season 4, but I'm not sure how that's going to turn out now, him having wasted his own power and all. But he is still alive..


They said they have specific plans for him and it made sense based on their Season 4 plot, so... okay. (?) Not sure where they are going.


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## Aubbs (Jun 12, 2012)

Martinez is the type to follow an not question where Tyreese is the opposite. Especially with the whole "bro bonding" with Daryl I don't see any problem if he were to leave the Gov side. Never said Tyreese wouldn't fit in I just think there will be conflict between Rick and him on different views and beliefs, he did think Rick was unstable and sure he was but I don't think Tyreese understands just yet what happened to Rick and who he really is. I do believe Tyreese will be open minded though 



ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> That kid looks nothing like Noah and his name was even said in the episode and it was not Noah. It was somebody different.
> 
> I don't see why you think Tyrese and Rick won't get along, but Martinez will get right in with the group when Tyrese is a protagonist and Martinez as of right now is not.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> I agree with that. Tyresse and Rick will get along fine. The only reason they didn't the first time was because Rick was in "xenophobe / must expel the strangers from our midst!" mode and kinda nutball. Their final encounter at the gates of Woodbury was about the tensest situation possible, yet they made it past that, to the point where Tyresse came back with him. And now that Rick is in "government by and for the people" mode, Tyresse will be a voice of level-headed proportion.
> 
> Martinez is amoral. He kind of sells out to the highest bidder and who provides him with power to feel significant. He wasn't really into the Governor mowing down civilians, but he also wasn't caring much about the sneaky subterfuge going on during negotiations; it's all just part of the game to him. That doesn't mesh with Tyresse, for example, who is about being fair and open and trying to find the best outcome for everyone. A player won't fit as well with the prison crowd, where everyone is expected to be more communal. I think Martinez might not feel valuable there, where he is given no special recognition or power. He's not a horrible person, I really really liked that conversation he had with Daryl, but going to the prison would be a demotion for him... and since he was the Governor's right-hand guy and is responsible for the death of some of the prison crowd, well... no. I don't think he'd fit easily or be allowed to.


I don't fully agree with the assessment of Martinez. I don't think he's power hungry at all. He's not really the leader type. I think the apocalypse has just changed him so much and made him into a completely amoral person. Mainly, it's just filled him with so much hate and rage toward everything that tries to attack him or his group/'family.' Like he said, he just really hates the Walkers because of what they did to his wife and kids. Having to watch that and probably only escaping because they were too busy eating their still alive bodies will not does not do well to one's mental health. 

Basically, I just think the root of his antagonistic and amoral personality is from the traumatization the apocalypse has brung and not from a thirst of power.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Aubbs said:


> Martinez is the type to follow an not question where Tyreese is the opposite. Especially with the whole "bro bonding" with Daryl I don't see any problem if he were to leave the Gov side. Never said Tyreese wouldn't fit in I just think there will be conflict between Rick and him on different views and beliefs, he did think Rick was unstable and sure he was but I don't think Tyreese understands just yet what happened to Rick and who he really is. I do believe Tyreese will be open minded though


Good point there, but as far as martinez getting integrated into the communality of the group; that's a different story. I think once/if he gets his shit together, he will obey Rick without question, but not unless he has his shit together. He's so used to the Governor doing things so differently.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Striver said:


> But she was good for morale! Did you not like her singing?!
> 
> Anyways, not having read the comics, and ignoring most of the spoilers that have been posted, I'm wondering where Rick will acquire the resources to sustain his new flock of elderly and children.
> 
> Doing the right thing costs money! (well not money, but food, water, guns, and ammo)


They'll probably teach the older folk some things they are physically able to do and especially teach the kids a lot of things. Daryl knows how to hunt, which he will teach and they probably stole a lot of food from Woodbury.


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## Aubbs (Jun 12, 2012)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Good point there, but as far as martinez getting integrated into the communality of the group; that's a different story. I think once/if he gets his shit together, he will obey Rick without question, but not unless he has his shit together. He's so used to the Governor doing things so differently.



Agreed, but that whole frenzy thing really made Martinez question everything. You could tell by how slowly and quietly he got into the back of the truck almost like he was waiting to be shot at. I can't wait to see how it plays out.


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> Lol! I know what it's _for_.


lol, my bad.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Well, to you guys who were wondering who would survive into Season 4 and beyond, here's some interesting news:



> The Governor will definitely be back in a big way next season on "The Walking Dead." AMC confirmed to AccessHollywood.com that British actor David Morrissey, who plays the sociopathic leader (who is likely licking his wounds following his disastrous attempt at taking down the prison group on Sunday's Season 3 finale of "The Walking Dead"), is now *a series regular *on the show.
> 
> Also promoted to series regulars for Season 4 are Chad Coleman, who plays the reasonable Tyreese, and Sonequa Martin-Green, who plays his sister, Sasha. Both Sasha and Tyreese returned to the prison at the end of Season 3 and began to settle in.
> 
> And, Emily Kinney, who has been playing Beth Greene since Season 2, and became more prominent over Season 3 - showing off her real life singing skills, and - in character - took care of Rick's daughter Judith, has also been promoted.



Sounds like these four will be around for at least awhile.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Don't read until you've seen all of Season 3.



> How the Walking Dead's Third Season Went Wrong.
> [Warning: This story contains major spoilers from the third season of _The Walking Dead_ as well as the comic books upon which the AMC series is based.]
> 
> It's been one week since the dust has settled on _The Walking Dead_'s third season finale and we're still scratching our heads....
> ...


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

uuugghhh Daryl
View attachment 67423

why do I always fall for the emotionally damaged ones? :blushed:
well, at least this time he's developed to a better man 
and now I have to wait till October or so to see him again :blushed:


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

To bring this thread back to life a bit...

I think the show's quality has been up and down -- they'll have a good episode, then blow a half-season or end season finale habitually. The whole end of the Guv'nor arc was pretty stupid and contrived.


But the second half of Season 4 has actually been a step up. It's been a little slower paced, but they're taking time to reestablish the characters and their relationships. This isn't a bad thing. And everyone is on the move again, without the safety of the prison setting. That's the kind of tension the show needs to work better.

Episode 14, that came out tonight, was pretty amazing. It was a tie-up for stuff that happened in the very beginning of the season. It was a tragic episode as well. One of its strengths was the moral ambiguity. There are decision that get made that people might have strong opinions about, but there is no "obvious answer" on what had to be done. Ethically, rationally, morally... the realistic view vs the idealist view was going head-to-head. But what I found even better, in the outcome of THAT decision made by two of the characters, is how it plays directly into the resolution between those two adults a few minutes later. If the earlier situation hadn't occurred, I think the choice made by one of those adults would have been very different; but it provided some context and empathy by which the other adult's past choices could be better understood.

Still kind of stunned by how this all ended. And I ache for what might have been but realistically was probably not a viable outcome.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

The last episode was indeed hard to watch, it explored how this whole situation can affect children who are too young to process it all in healthier ways. It also made me wonder if Carol having tried to teach the kids to be thoughter was actually a good decision even if it was well intended. Maybe the kids were really too young to be able to process it all, maybe they were too gentle or not fit enough to be able to handle it all.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

AriesLilith said:


> The last episode was indeed hard to watch, it explored how this whole situation can affect children who are too young to process it all in healthier ways. It also made me wonder if Carol having tried to teach the kids to be thoughter was actually a good decision even if it was well intended. Maybe the kids were really too young to be able to process it all, maybe they were too gentle or not fit enough to be able to handle it all.


Lizzie was a psychopath, no matter what Carol had done she'd still be this way.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Yeah, that ^^ was the main problem. There was already something wrong before Carol trained them -- some kind of break with reality where Lizzie wasn't able to accept what Walkers were, and it resulted in her being a potential time bomb for herself and the people around her. Her ability to handle weapons just made her more dangerous, but even weaponless she would have been doing things that either got herself killed or the people around her; they wouldn't have even been able to sleep without posting a guard on her 24/7. Uggh.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> Lizzie was a psychopath, no matter what Carol had done she'd still be this way.


She might have been different if apocalypse didn't happen, some children has more potential to become messed up yet it does not necessarily lead to this. In Lizzie's case, her potential plus the environmental conditions affected the outcome. Also, she seems to believe that humans are meant to become zombies as well (messed up prspective), seeing it as the end they should all go to, and develop compassion towards them. Killing her sister was not meant for torture nor pleasure, but to confirm her belief that it is the right path for all of them (that is why she wanted to wait for her awakening as zombie). Although the rabbit that was found that seemed tortured by her might pose some doubts about her psycho nature.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

AriesLilith said:


> She might have been different if apocalypse didn't happen, some children has more potential to become messed up yet it does not necessarily lead to this. In Lizzie's case, her potential plus the environmental conditions affected the outcome. Also, she seems to believe that humans are meant to become zombies as well (messed up prspective), seeing it as the end they should all go to, and develop compassion towards them. Killing her sister was not meant for torture nor pleasure, but to confirm her belief that it is the right path for all of them (that is why she wanted to wait for her awakening as zombie). Although the rabbit that was found that seemed tortured by her might pose some doubts about her psycho nature.


If the apocalypse didn't happen she'd probably be a common psychopath, without the zombification fantasies. She liked killing things, derived pleasure and "fun" from it (as Tyreese said). She was confused about the walkers but it was just part of her mental state, not something that could be "confused" by a normal child. I think killing her sister was both for pleasure and fun and she used the whole zombie thing as an excuse to do it. Mind you, not an excuse towards others but to herself as well. Besides, she probably liked walkers because of their violent nature, probably viewed it as a nice, "higher" state to be because you can kill anything.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> If the apocalypse didn't happen she'd probably be a common psychopath, without the zombification fantasies. She liked killing things, derived pleasure and "fun" from it (as Tyreese said). She was confused about the walkers but it was just part of her mental state, not something that could be "confused" by a normal child. I think killing her sister was both for pleasure and fun and she used the whole zombie thing as an excuse to do it. Mind you, not an excuse towards others but to herself as well. Besides, she probably liked walkers because of their violent nature, probably viewed it as a nice, "higher" state to be because you can kill anything.


But how do you know if her torture on the animals like the rabbit was not due to her confusion of the nature of things and experimenting on the rabbit? Some kids actually did experiments on animals or bugs when they are young but empathy can later develop and they ended up understand things better. She might also be this kind of kid with the potential to be psycho, yet not necessarily a lost case. But how did you conclude that she enjoyed killing her sister? Also, she didn't seem to enjoy the violent nature of the walkers, she was very affraid when her sister tripped over and got stuck and a walker almost got her, that Lizzie ended up shooting the walkers as well. If she enjoyed the violence she wouldn't have tried to help, or even pushed her sister to the walker. She seemed to me like a lost case for being confused that humans should all end up being walkers and embrace it rather than enjoying torturing or killing itself.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

AriesLilith said:


> But how do you know if her torture on the animals like the rabbit was not due to her confusion of the nature of things and experimenting on the rabbit? Some kids actually did experiments on animals or bugs when they are young but empathy can later develop and they ended up understand things better. She might also be this kind of kid with the potential to be psycho, yet not necessarily a lost case. But how did you conclude that she enjoyed killing her sister? Also, she didn't seem to enjoy the violent nature of the walkers, she was very affraid when her sister tripped over and got stuck and a walker almost got her, that Lizzie ended up shooting the walkers as well. If she enjoyed the violence she wouldn't have tried to help, or even pushed her sister to the walker. She seemed to me like a lost case for being confused that humans should all end up being walkers and embrace it rather than enjoying torturing or killing itself.



Because they happened irrelevantly of the walkers. She staked and gutted one in the prison and killed those under the tree and enjoyed it. It's different than experimenting because she enjoys the blood and the act of killing, if she wanted to experiment she would have done other things,not killed them. She was old enough to have empathy for other living beings, kids usually experiment when much younger and they don't enjoy the kill like she did. Also, most psychopathic killers usually start by doing exactly what she was with the animals. She enjoyed killing her sister because she found a convincing reason to make her feel guilt free, which was the whole walker thing. The scene were she was chocking Judith is another prime example of her psychopathy, she began by trying to keep it quiet then realized she could kill her, and her face was filled with pleasure as she was doing it. 
Carl was also confused with the walkers if I remember correctly, but grew out of it as a normal kid would.
I'm not saying she is fully aware of what she's doing, but if she were to grow up she'd be a fully blown psychopathic killer. And that's what Carol realized.


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> Because they happened irrelevantly of the walkers. She staked and gutted one in the prison and killed those under the tree and enjoyed it. It's different than experimenting because she enjoys the blood and the act of killing, if she wanted to experiment she would have done other things,not killed them. She was old enough to have empathy for other living beings, kids usually experiment when much younger and they don't enjoy the kill like she did. Also, most psychopathic killers usually start by doing exactly what she was with the animals. She enjoyed killing her sister because she found a convincing reason to make her feel guilt free, which was the whole walker thing. The scene were she was chocking Judith is another prime example of her psychopathy, she began by trying to keep it quiet then realized she could kill her, and her face was filled with pleasure as she was doing it.
> Carl was also confused with the walkers if I remember correctly, but grew out of it as a normal kid would.
> I'm not saying she is fully aware of what she's doing, but if she were to grow up she'd be a fully blown psychopathic killer. And that's what Carol realized.


The conclusion that she enjoyed it seems more like a subjective interpretation, specially the part of her almost killed Judith and showing enjoyment expressions during that moment, as she didn't really show enjoyment when silencing Judith but rather entered in a "frozen" mental state. Also, the assumption that she killed her sister now as she has a reason to be guilt free now seems a rather wild one just derived from the conclusion that she is a psycho anyways. Assuming that she killed her as she believed that humans should end up as walkers makes more sense, due to what she said in the episode and approaching the trapped walker. If she only cared for violence, she wouldn't have seen walkers as friends nor said things like "maybe they just wanted to transform us too" (something like that). She seems to have messed up ideals rather than enjoying torture. She in the end wanted everyone to transform into walkers together and started with her sister, and she has genuine empathy for them (a psycho would not care for walkers too, she cared coz she believed that zombies are the destination for all; she probably wouldn't care killing humans as she might believe that they'd come back as zombies). Also, you said that it happened irrelevantly of the walkers, but the two rabbits were both killed after the whole apocalypse started and she was already messed up with the whole situation of people dying, being eaten, humans killing each other, survival and so on. Maybe she was old enough to develop empathy for other beings too, maybe not, but then some kids still might develop empathy only later; so she has the potential to be messed up, and providing the environmental factors her potential were raised much higher. (ugh why is the paragraphs feature not working, am I the only one here??) Anyways, she was a lost case in the end, after finally crossed the line for killing her sister. The series is interesting as it allows us to explore possibilities and human psyche, thought we are all interpreting something that is not real and it probably allows different interpretations for that. Debates about psychopathy being naturally born with or both genetic and environment influenced, what drove an individual to get worse, these are all interesting things to explore.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

AriesLilith said:


> The conclusion that she enjoyed it seems more like a subjective interpretation, specially the part of her almost killed Judith and showing enjoyment expressions during that moment, as she didn't really show enjoyment when silencing Judith but rather entered in a "frozen" mental state. Also, the assumption that she killed her sister now as she has a reason to be guilt free now seems a rather wild one just derived from the conclusion that she is a psycho anyways. Assuming that she killed her as she believed that humans should end up as walkers makes more sense, due to what she said in the episode and approaching the trapped walker. If she only cared for violence, she wouldn't have seen walkers as friends nor said things like "maybe they just wanted to transform us too" (something like that). She seems to have messed up ideals rather than enjoying torture. She in the end wanted everyone to transform into walkers together and started with her sister, and she has genuine empathy for them (a psycho would not care for walkers too, she cared coz she believed that zombies are the destination for all; she probably wouldn't care killing humans as she might believe that they'd come back as zombies). Also, you said that it happened irrelevantly of the walkers, but the two rabbits were both killed after the whole apocalypse started and she was already messed up with the whole situation of people dying, being eaten, humans killing each other, survival and so on. Maybe she was old enough to develop empathy for other beings too, maybe not, but then some kids still might develop empathy only later; so she has the potential to be messed up, and providing the environmental factors her potential were raised much higher. (ugh why is the paragraphs feature not working, am I the only one here??) Anyways, she was a lost case in the end, after finally crossed the line for killing her sister. The series is interesting as it allows us to explore possibilities and human psyche, thought we are all interpreting something that is not real and it probably allows different interpretations for that. Debates about psychopathy being naturally born with or both genetic and environment influenced, what drove an individual to get worse, these are all interesting things to explore.


I watched the scene with Judith again, the pleasure on her face is quite obvious, just not an exaggerated expression. She phases out because she is overwhelmed by that feeling and she can't listen to anything going on around her. 

She IS a psychopath, so yes I take it one step further to find out how she rationalizes that killing is fine, as she is a child and she can't (or doesn't want to) understand how or why she really feels this way. People do that all the time for much smaller things.

Really, her enjoyment from torture is very obvious from the scenes with the rabbits and the prison, I mean she even *said it *when Tyreese asked her why she did it, "for fun". 

The empathy she has for walkers is just another sign of her craziness, and I didn't deny she was confused about that, but that's not all she was. If she really wanted to be a walker first and foremost she would have killed herself rather than the others, but wanting to kill the others first, and her previous acts of killing and torturing tells me that it was more of a rationalization for her murderous intents rather than genuine ideology. 

Other children were in the same situation in this apocalypse but they didn't kill animals for fun, tried to choke a baby or killed their sister like that (and another man at the prison but hey that was self defense). What was her age? 10-12? 


Here's the scene: her face from 0.13-0.17 shows it all






and here are screenshots from the rabbit scene

View attachment 95456
View attachment 95457
View attachment 95458


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> I watched the scene with Judith again, the pleasure on her face is quite obvious, just not an exaggerated expression. She phases out because she is overwhelmed by that feeling and she can't listen to anything going on around her.
> 
> She IS a psychopath, so yes I take it one step further to find out how she rationalizes that killing is fine, as she is a child and she can't (or doesn't want to) understand how or why she really feels this way. People do that all the time for much smaller things.
> 
> ...


Here's a better quality video for the Lizzie/Judith scene (please start from 1:01 as the beginning is a series of incomplete repetition and video author talking):






Here we can see, starting from 1:01 (I ignored the repetitions), they were pretty stressed. Lizzie seemed a bit lost with what to do to stop Judith from crying, then she got a bit distressed/irritated when she tapped on Judith's mouth. Then her expression started to get "softer" and she calmed a bit as Judith was less noisy, but from then on she entered to the "trance" mode. Honestly, I think that this mode is a better example of psychopathy than the interval you mentioned, she seemed to have gone to the mode that mind went empty and into a passive instinctual killing state. I think that she tranced in that moment as she has a pretty messed up mental state already, and she lost in that moment.

If she really said that to Tyreese then perhaps you are right, but I'm too lazy to check this assumption's validity. Thought those images doesn't really show much about her enjoyment. Thought on other forums some people said that she might have killed the rabbits to feed the walkers, specially those in the tree branch.

The scene with her feeding the rat to the trapped walker showed that she almost let the walker bite and transform her. Also, maybe she wanted everyone else to transform and join her, and she needed to show them to convince them so she killed her sister. If she dies first then she wouldn't be able to achieve that.

As for other kids, they might have been able to cope with it but doesn't mean that everyone would be able to. Again, she had more potential to be messed up, so with such traumatic event it elevated the chances. Many kids in the real life who ends up torturing animal and get worse often comes from abusive families or suffered from traumatic events. It's like bullying events - many kids might be able to recover but some might end up messed up and even suicide or revenge, if they are more susceptible. Thought this is not the proof that they would still be messed up if the traumatic events didn't take place.

In the end, we are still arguing about a fictional story and staged scenes, maybe I should check the comics to actually see what the author had in mind? (I'm not sure if the comics are the origins of Walking Dead?)


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

AriesLilith said:


> Here's a better quality video for the Lizzie/Judith scene (please start from 1:01 as the beginning is a series of incomplete repetition and video author talking):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm talking about the same interval. 
As for the rabbit scene, come on the pleasure is obvious in her face, how much more obvious could they make it? Biting the lip and frowning? That face is 101 pleasure expression. In the scene with Judith they just made it less exaggerated, there's no reason for her to trance like that if she isn't enjoying it, perhaps in a profound way that she doesn't even understand, she just feels excited and overwhelmed by it. 
The only reason I'm arguing is because I didn't expect someone to not believe she is a textbook psychopath, the dialogue in the end between Tyreese and Carol, where she says that she should have seen it and the signs were there shows that. That's how the writers wanted Lizzie to be, whether she'd be like that because of the apocalypse or despite it isn't really important, though I believe that's how she'd be, like Carol said "this is how she is, it was already there".
If anything, the apocalypse escalated her psychopathy earlier than usual, hence the whole obsession with walkers.

View attachment 95460


It wasn't the same in the comics apparently, but very similar
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1724326/walking-dead-carol-kills-lizzie.jhtml


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> I'm talking about the same interval.
> As for the rabbit scene, come on the pleasure is obvious in her face, how much more obvious could they make it? Biting the lip and frowning? That face is 101 pleasure expression. In the scene with Judith they just made it less exaggerated, there's no reason for her to trance like that if she isn't enjoying it, perhaps in a profound way that she doesn't even understand, she just feels excited and overwhelmed by it.
> The only reason I'm arguing is because I didn't expect someone to not believe she is a textbook psychopath, the dialogue in the end between Tyreese and Carol, where she says that she should have seen it and the signs were there shows that. That's how the writers wanted Lizzie to be, whether she'd be like that because of the apocalypse or despite it isn't really important, though I believe that's how she'd be, like Carol said "this is how she is, it was already there".
> If anything, the apocalypse escalated her psychopathy earlier than usual, hence the whole obsession with walkers.
> ...


I argued with you since I couldn't agree with your assumptions, specially the one about her being a psycho even if the apocalypse didn't happen, since I think that she has the potential in her but the main teigger was environmental.

But thanks for getting the evidence for me, it was not so obvious in the TV series but these images from the comic are pretty obvious now, this character Ben has obviously been a psycho all the way.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Yeah, that last episode got me. I'm still reeling from it. I'm not going to lie- I completely freaked out when Lizzie killed her sister! I can't even explain why Lizzie did it other than she was crazy. Every time I think about this episode tho...my heart just breaks a little more! "Just look at the flowers!" :crying: @Red Panda nice username :wink:


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

I find this image hilarious XD

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/funny-walking-dead-memes-10.jpg


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## Roland Khan (May 10, 2009)

The walkers are all ESFP


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

AriesLilith said:


> I find this image hilarious XD
> 
> http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/funny-walking-dead-memes-10.jpg


Haha, that one's good  There are so many amazing Walking Dead memes on the internet tho.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Roland787 said:


> The walkers are all ESFP


What makes you say that?


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## Zombie Devil Duckie (Apr 11, 2012)

theredpanda said:


> Haha, that one's good  There are so many amazing Walking Dead memes on the internet tho.

































:tongue:


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

@Zombie Devil Duckie


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Red Panda said:


> .... The scene were she was chocking Judith is another prime example of her psychopathy, she began by trying to keep it quiet then realized she could kill her, and her face was filled with pleasure as she was doing it.


Ah yeah -- thanks for bringing that one back up, I had forgotten. But yeah, she almost smothered Judith when the walkers were coming.

Well, lots of interesting ideas. But the bottom line for me was that, regardless of her motivations, no one was safe around her. You can't sleep, you can't look the other way, you can't trust her... and the only positive at her age was that she was still young and not fully as capable as a grownup to cause even more serious hurt to people.

But it gutted Carol. Carol is such a realist now, and sometimes she can seem heartless because of it. i think in time, if she lives long enough, she'll settle out more. But here, these were her "girls" and she found herself in a position where the kids were lost once again. 

In the interview with Melissa McBride, she says it was actually more of a kindness than just abandoning Lizzie, alone in the house, to starve and die or be devoured by zombies. She died in a peaceful moment, at the hands of someone she loved, who could make sure she didn't come back, and who could take time to bury her next to her sister so they'd be together. In some ways, that can sound like rationalization, but the world they live in seems to be nothing but rationalizations because there is no absolute compass any more. 

... or is there?


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jennywocky said:


> In the interview with Melissa McBride, she says it was actually more of a kindness than just abandoning Lizzie, alone in the house, to starve and die or be devoured by zombies. She died in a peaceful moment, at the hands of someone she loved, who could make sure she didn't come back, and who could take time to bury her next to her sister so they'd be together. In some ways, that can sound like rationalization, but the world they live in seems to be nothing but rationalizations because there is no absolute compass any more.
> 
> ... or is there?


Yeah, The Talking Dead after was...*takes a deep breath and tries to hold back tears*...Chris Hardwick was so sad! I'm not used to that. But I definitely think Carol did the most rational thing someone could do in that moment. They have to protect Judith most of all now and Lizzie would have killed her. Lizzie had a very twisted sense of morals- she was really upset when she thought Carol was mad at her for pointing a gun at her, but didn't think killing her little sister was immoral in the slightest...


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

AriesLilith said:


> The conclusion that she enjoyed it seems more like a subjective interpretation, specially the part of her almost killed Judith and showing enjoyment expressions during that moment, as she didn't really show enjoyment when silencing Judith but rather entered in a "frozen" mental state. Also, the assumption that she killed her sister now as she has a reason to be guilt free now seems a rather wild one just derived from the conclusion that she is a psycho anyways. Assuming that she killed her as she believed that humans should end up as walkers makes more sense, due to what she said in the episode and approaching the trapped walker. If she only cared for violence, she wouldn't have seen walkers as friends nor said things like "maybe they just wanted to transform us too" (something like that). She seems to have messed up ideals rather than enjoying torture. She in the end wanted everyone to transform into walkers together and started with her sister, and she has genuine empathy for them (a psycho would not care for walkers too, she cared coz she believed that zombies are the destination for all; she probably wouldn't care killing humans as she might believe that they'd come back as zombies).


Yeah. She really seemed to have a twisted sense of reality and fascination with the walkers and I don't know if "psychopath" in the conscious sense is the most appropriate term. 

But in the end, it all comes out the same. I don't care if you kill me and my baby in my sleep because you're a psychopath or if you're just screwed up so bad you think we'll come back as the "happy zombie family," the reality is that neither is acceptable and you are still just as dangerous and need to be stopped.



AriesLilith said:


> In the end, we are still arguing about a fictional story and staged scenes, maybe I should check the comics to actually see what the author had in mind? (I'm not sure if the comics are the origins of Walking Dead?)


yes, the comics are the "basic" source for the tv show and the comic's writer works on the show with the writers and the showrunner, but the show is divergent. Many of the same characters appear, but some different ones as well, and the plot is shared in some ways but the characters' fates are not always the same.


* *




For example, Shane died in the first few issues, but he didn't die until the end of Season 2. Dale and Andrea eventually shacked up, rather than Dale dying in Season 2 -- he dies much later. Lori did not die giving birth to Judith, I think she died during the final prison assault. Judith also dies. Carol has a relationship with Tyresse, Michonne seduces Tyresse, Carol commits "suicide by zombie" ... pretty early in the series, and never becomes a badass solid warrior. Daryl does not exist in the comic... or didn't. The Guv'nor was more hick in the comic, rather than Hitler. Tyresse is beheaded by the Guv'nor, not Herschel. And so on... I think Glen is dead in the comic too.




this is a strength of the show, IMO -- you might have read the comic, but that doesn't mean you can't be surprised by the show. it is basically doing its own "riff" on the same basic settings and characters.

Anyway, in the comic, the sisters are built upon two young brothers with the same dynamic, and I think i read that Carl sneaks in and kills Billy because he's a psychopath (he's the counterpart to Lizzie in the show). Same basic premise, but here it was worked beautifully into the plot angle of Carol having killed Tyresse's lover Karen and he doesn't know, and meanwhile Carol is like a mom to the two sisters. It makes their deaths even more agonizing.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jennywocky said:


> Anyway, in the comic, the sisters are built upon two young brothers with the same dynamic, and I think i read that Carl sneaks in and kills Billy because he's a psychopath (he's the counterpart to Lizzie in the show). Same basic premise, but here it was worked beautifully into the plot angle of Carol having killed Tyresse's lover Karen and he doesn't know, and meanwhile Carol is like a mom to the two sisters. It makes their deaths even more agonizing.


I read part of the first comic (after I started watching the show) and then I read the wikipedia on the comics and I have to say, I like the show a lot better, but I'm probably biased...


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

theredpanda said:


> Yeah, The Talking Dead after was...*takes a deep breath and tries to hold back tears*...Chris Hardwick was so sad! I'm not used to that. But I definitely think Carol did the most rational thing someone could do in that moment.


From what I read in the last day or so, the fan base overall has been extremely supportive of Carol's decision rather than despising her for it. Interesting.

That opening was creepy, wasn't it? one of the girls playing without someone... who you can't recognize from the distance but figure out is a zombie because of how she is moving. Just like, WTF? Poor Lizzie.

I also feel bad for their dad who died in the early part of the season. Carol said she'd take care of them, but she failed.



> They have to protect Judith most of all now and Lizzie would have killed her. Lizzie had a very twisted sense of morals- she was really upset when she thought Carol was mad at her for pointing a gun at her, but didn't think killing her little sister was immoral in the slightest...


well, like someone said, she wasn't killing her sister, she was bringing her back as a zombie and she'd be fine and happy as always and thus prove to the grownups that Lizzie was right about the zombies and then they could all be happy together. 

Kind of reminds me of Andrea and Amy in Season 1, where Amy dies, and Andrea sits there waits for her to come back... so she can hold her and then be the one to put her out of her misery. But Andrea was the realist, and Lizzie was completely out in left field.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

theredpanda said:


> I read part of the first comic (after I started watching the show) and then I read the wikipedia on the comics and I have to say, I like the show a lot better, but I'm probably biased...


I haven't read much of the comics (I've read more ABOUT the comics), but I like the show a lot better too. The drama is handled better.

My only issue with the show is that I think the quality is sporadic. Some of the episodes are amazing, while others are lackluster. I did find the most recent one really ballsy, i think the show shines when it's not afraid to ask really hard questions and have characters face situations with no right answer... just a bunch of answers that feel wrong, and they have to choose the one they can most live with.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jennywocky said:


> From what I read in the last day or so, the fan base overall has been extremely supportive of Carol's decision rather than despising her for it. Interesting.
> 
> That opening was creepy, wasn't it? one of the girls playing without someone... who you can't recognize from the distance but figure out is a zombie because of how she is moving. Just like, WTF? Poor Lizzie.


Well, I supported Carol even when she killed Karen and that other guy (forgot his name...). I mean, maybe she shouldn't have killed them, but I get why she did it. She was only trying to protect the group. And it's kind of the same in this situation...she's doing it to protect Judith.
YES the opening scene!
And the part where Lizzie was trying to get bit! Gah! There are no words!!!


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jennywocky said:


> I haven't read much of the comics (I've read more ABOUT the comics), but I like the show a lot better too. The drama is handled better.
> 
> My only issue with the show is that I think the quality is sporadic. Some of the episodes are amazing, while others are lackluster. I did find the most recent one really ballsy, i think the show shines when it's not afraid to ask really hard questions and have characters face situations with no right answer... just a bunch of answers that feel wrong, and they have to choose the one they can most live with.


Yeah, I completely agree. But if you suffer through the "filler" episodes, the ones like Sunday's make up for them  So worth it...


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Jennywocky said:


> I haven't read much of the comics (I've read more ABOUT the comics), but I like the show a lot better too. The drama is handled better.
> 
> My only issue with the show is that I think the quality is sporadic. Some of the episodes are amazing, while others are lackluster. I did find the most recent one really ballsy, i think the show shines when it's not afraid to ask really hard questions and have characters face situations with no right answer... just a bunch of answers that feel wrong, and they have to choose the one they can most live with.


I saw someone else refer to this episode as "ballsy" too. How? It's shock value. They have already done it. It was so damn trite. This show is incapable of invoking any emotion out of me except annoyance. I mean, who really cares about anything that happened? Seriously. It was totally contrived. They bring in these two terrible, annoying child actors. Fill their heads with juvenile philosophy, and then snuff them out. Why is it relevant? 

And the guy who plays Tyrese is AWFUL. Just absolutely awful. Such amateur hour over there. The line about him dreaming, and forgetting she's dead, and reliving it every night again, was actually a good line and idea. But it still failed. This used to be a B level show. You can't even say it is a decent show with flaws anymore. It is a straight up bad show. 

They are just filling a time slot and trying to drag it out as long as possible. They know it will get ratings. It is a cash cow, so they are gonna fill the air. Seriously, like nobody on the show can act. NOBODY. lol MY fucking God.

:angry:


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

FearAndTrembling said:


> I saw someone else refer to this episode as "ballsy" too. How? It's shock value. They have already done it. It was so damn trite. This show is incapable of invoking any emotion out of me except annoyance. I mean, who really cares about anything that happened? Seriously. It was totally contrived. They bring in these two terrible, annoying child actors. Fill their heads with juvenile philosophy, and then snuff them out. Why is it relevant?
> 
> And the guy who plays Tyrese is AWFUL. Just absolutely awful. Such amateur hour over there. The line about him dreaming, and forgetting she's dead, and reliving it every night again, was actually a good line and idea. But it still failed. This used to be a B level show. You can't even say it is a decent show with flaws anymore. It is a straight up bad show.
> 
> ...


Unless you WANT shock value and you're attached to the characters...


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## AriesLilith (Jan 6, 2013)

Jennywocky said:


> Yeah. She really seemed to have a twisted sense of reality and fascination with the walkers and I don't know if "psychopath" in the conscious sense is the most appropriate term.
> 
> But in the end, it all comes out the same. I don't care if you kill me and my baby in my sleep because you're a psychopath or if you're just screwed up so bad you think we'll come back as the "happy zombie family," the reality is that neither is acceptable and you are still just as dangerous and need to be stopped.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I don't know much of how the story of Ben and Carl killing him developed, but I think that how the last episode went, with Carol making the hard decision to end Lizzie, was really good and intense. It was a really hard decision and from the moment they saw Mika dead, it was very emotionally intense... How Lizzie seemed clueless of her own messed up ideals, her "innocence", and how Carol handled it and her own emotions... In the end, I agree that it was the right decision. Even if they left her alive and alone, she might end up killing even more people in case she survives.

Walking Dead being a series rather than a movie really allows the exploration of the more emotional and morality side of an apocalypse situation.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

What do you guys think Lizzie's type is? I was thinking she might be a classic example on an INFP gone wrong...


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I don't really know what the sisters' types were. 

not only was Lizzie young, and not only did we not really get to see her in a variety of circumstances, but she was mentally unstable. I don't really see how a type read could reasonably be made in that context.



FearAndTrembling said:


> I saw someone else refer to this episode as "ballsy" too. How? It's shock value. They have already done it. It was so damn trite. This show is incapable of invoking any emotion out of me except annoyance. I mean, who really cares about anything that happened? Seriously. It was totally contrived. They bring in these two terrible, annoying child actors. Fill their heads with juvenile philosophy, and then snuff them out. Why is it relevant?
> 
> And the guy who plays Tyrese is AWFUL. Just absolutely awful. Such amateur hour over there. The line about him dreaming, and forgetting she's dead, and reliving it every night again, was actually a good line and idea. But it still failed. This used to be a B level show. You can't even say it is a decent show with flaws anymore. It is a straight up bad show.
> 
> ...



Not sure why you had such a negative reaction or how you missed a lot of the things I saw, but... oh well. I mean, if you hate the show, then you hate the show. 

Any dislike i experience for the show is mostly about its inconsistency, but I thought the execution in this particular storyline that was building for most of the season, episode after episode, was actually pretty good.


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

Carol seems ISTJ.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Noctis said:


> Carol seems ISTJ.


Yeah I could see that


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Jennywocky said:


> I don't really know what the sisters' types were.
> 
> not only was Lizzie young, and not only did we not really get to see her in a variety of circumstances, but she was mentally unstable. I don't really see how a type read could reasonably be made in that context.
> 
> ...


Pilot was VERY good, about as good as TV gets. First couple seasons were good, but there is only so much you can do with this idea, and I think they have just about done it all. I've seen it all. Plus, there is no connection with the characters. Glen is bland as hell. Maggie sucks. Beth is terrible. Dale and Shane were both good. Hershel was cool. Even Andrea made you somewhat care. There are few interesting people left. 

Have you watched True Detective btw?


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Pilot was VERY good, about as good as TV gets. First couple seasons were good, but there is only so much you can do with this idea, and I think they have just about done it all. I've seen it all. Plus, there is no connection with the characters. Glen is bland as hell. Maggie sucks. Beth is terrible. Dale and Shane were both good. Hershel was cool. Even Andrea made you somewhat care. There are few interesting people left.
> 
> Have you watched True Detective btw?


I think MOST of the actors have been at least sufficient, and I've seen a lot of bad actors on TV, so I'm not sure what standard you're judging people by. It sounds more like you're just pissed at how the series has failed and it's colored your views. [For my own part, I'm disappointed in TWD because it could have been a better show, so they haven't quite earned all the money they're raking in.]

But yeah, i think Beth is under par and a "developing actor" -- she had some moments where she seemed to improve in the Daryl/Beth episode but was obviously struggling to rise to the occasion.

I actually liked Andrea, but I seem to be a rare breed -- most people have dissed on her / despised her. I think the writers wasted her during Season 3 and finally performed a coup de grace.

....


Yeah, I watched all of True Detective. I would say the acting was at least another notch or two higher than TWD standards.... probably the best performances by Harrelson and McConaughey that I've seen anywhere. I was kind of disappointed with the finale -- it wasn't a bad episode by any means but just didn't seem quite up to par with the other episodes.


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> But yeah, i think Beth is under par and a "developing actor" -- she had some moments where she seemed to improve in the Daryl/Beth episode but was obviously struggling to rise to the occasion.


Just watched that episode, and I really liked it. I think her value is becoming clearer, that is she _could_ grow to be the supportive moral center or "glue" of a group, much like her father.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

an absurd man said:


> Just watched that episode, and I really liked it. I think her value is becoming clearer, that is she _could_ grow to be the supportive moral center or "glue" of a group, much like her father.


Yes I think she's becoming the new "hope" character. TWD always has to have a character like that- an idealist who sees the good in every situation and I think they're trying to make Beth that character now. Watch- they're gonna make us like her, then kill her off violently...


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Latest buzz: based on the promo pics, some people have been suggesting Rick might not make it past Sunday's episode. Not sure if I care, lol.



an absurd man said:


> Just watched that episode, and I really liked it. I think her value is becoming clearer, that is she _could_ grow to be the supportive moral center or "glue" of a group, much like her father.


I noticed that too. Pretty much she's just been the "little sister." I think it's good if they can keep the kids showing glimpses of their parents in them, like that... especially with their dad gone, it would make sense for those things to come out even more as they behave in ways that maintain his memory.




theredpanda said:


> ... Watch- they're gonna make us like her, then kill her off violently...


TBH I'm surprised she's made it this far. You just never know, apparently.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jennywocky said:


> Latest buzz: based on the promo pics, some people have been suggesting Rick might not make it past Sunday's episode. Not sure if I care, lol.


I almost hope they kill him! It would either be amazing or the shows ruin...but most people aren't crazy about rick anyways. Still, killing off the main character is gutsy and risky...


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

theredpanda said:


> I almost hope they kill him! It would either be amazing or the shows ruin...but most people aren't crazy about rick anyways. Still, killing off the main character is gutsy and risky...


But wouldn't you miss him screaming, "CAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LL" all the time? ROFL.






We'd miss Velociricktor.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jennywocky said:


> But wouldn't you miss him screaming, "CAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL" all the time? ROFL.


LOL- yes I would miss that...and his stuff...and things...:kitteh:


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Red Panda said:


> Lizzie was a psychopath, no matter what Carol had done she'd still be this way.


That's more environmental...


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

theredpanda said:


> LOL- yes I would miss that...and his stuff...and things...:kitteh:


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

thatoneweirdguy said:


>


omg


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Why do I get the feeling that 
* *




Maggie will die soon, and that the new lady is a cannibal?


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

eydimork said:


> Why do I get the feeling that
> * *
> 
> 
> ...


Actually I'm worried about Glenn...but yeah I'm just waiting for cannibals to show up...


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

Why does everyone think Terminus is cannibal town? After reading a bit about the possibilities, I think Terminus might be 
* *




a cult inspired by "The Sanctuary" from the comics




And also the Lizzie, Carol, Tyreese episode was the most wtf thing I've seen in a while, in a good way.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

an absurd man said:


> Why does everyone think Terminus is cannibal town? After reading a bit about the possibilities, I think Terminus might be
> * *
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah that's what I'm leaning towards...I think Beth's kidnappers might be cannibals...and OMG I know right!!! I'm never going to be able to get over that episode!


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

theredpanda said:


> Yeah that's what I'm leaning towards...I think Beth's kidnappers might be cannibals...and OMG I know right!!! I'm never going to be able to get over that episode!


Yea, probably going down as one of my favorites even though it was dark as hell. 

Poor Beth... just as things were getting good between her and Daryl.  I like the addition of another set of antagonists though, adds to the chaos that is TWD right now. I have a feeling whoever kidnapped Beth set up the funeral home to lure her and Daryl and other unsuspecting victims especially since their getaway car had that creepy cross on the back window. 

As for Glenn and Maggie... 
Maggie: "You'll never need a picture of me ever again." = bye bye Glenn or Maggie! 

Damn you TWD!! 

*shakes fist*


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

an absurd man said:


> Yea, probably going down as one of my favorites even though it was dark as hell.
> 
> Poor Beth... just as things were getting good between her and Daryl.  I like the addition of another set of antagonists though, adds to the chaos that is TWD right now. I have a feeling whoever kidnapped Beth set up the funeral home to lure her and Daryl and other unsuspecting victims especially since their getaway car had that creepy cross on the back window.
> 
> ...


Grr...I know right!!! I love them together! They're adorable <3


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

an absurd man said:


> Why does everyone think Terminus is cannibal town? After reading a bit about the possibilities, I think Terminus might be
> * *
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't read anything about it. It was just what popped into my head at the end of the episode, instinctively. 
* *




It was the way terminus was introduced. She implies there are others with the use of "we," but everything suggests that she's an unreliable host. Terminus is unlocked, anyone can get in, even zombies are welcome, nobody is guarding, she's overly accepting, overly open, free of worry, free of care. All fears are inhibited somehow. It suggests that she's ill, a wolf in sheep's clothing, or incapable of distinguishing reality. Might have just been bad acting, bad editing, or bad writing that made it appear the opposite of what they wanted.


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

eydimork said:


> I haven't read anything about it. It was just what popped into my head at the end of the episode, instinctively.
> * *
> 
> 
> ...


Yea something is definitely not right with Terminus according to the law of "If it's too good to be true then it probably is.", but lots of people seem to think they're cannibals (youtube comments, episode recaps, etc.) so I thought I might be missing something as there's not much to go on unless you've read the comics, which I haven't.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

an absurd man said:


> Yea something is definitely not right with Terminus according to the law of "If it's too good to be true then it probably is.", but lots of people seem to think they're cannibals (youtube comments, episode recaps, etc.) so I thought I might be missing something as there's not much to go on unless you've read the comics, which I haven't.


It's been confirmed that the hunters from the comics will be in season 4 and they are cannibals.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

theredpanda said:


> It's been confirmed that the hunters from the comics will be in season 4 and they are cannibals.


 When I saw the grill, I immediately thought that it was human meat. Perhaps they're even being served Beth, with the dark turn the show has been taking.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> When I saw the grill, I immediately thought that it was human meat. Perhaps they're even being served Beth, with the dark turn the show has been taking.


OMFG.

Well, that would seem kind of a lame way for a character to depart, but it would also be chockful of terrible, dark irony.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> When I saw the grill, I immediately thought that it was human meat. Perhaps they're even being served Beth, with the dark turn the show has been taking.


That's actually kinda what I'm hoping is going to happen....


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

theredpanda said:


> That's actually kinda what I'm hoping is going to happen....


And here I was wondering how they would top the psycho craziness of "The Grove" two episodes ago.
That might actually do it.

Can you imagine them realizing they ate Beth?


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jennywocky said:


> And here I was wondering how they would top the psycho craziness of "The Grove" two episodes ago.
> That might actually do it.
> 
> Can you imagine them realizing they ate Beth?


I know right!!!! It would be so shocking and everyone would freak out...I'm really hoping something along the lines of this happens...


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

I hope Beth isn't going to die, especially via cannibalism. >_>


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

an absurd man said:


> I hope Beth isn't going to die, especially via cannibalism. >_>


We all know she isn't going to last much longer...I'm surprised she's lasted this long actually. TWD has a pattern of making you like a character and then killing them off....TBH I just want her to go out with a BANG! so to speak...i want to be shocked!


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Bethburgers anyone, pickles and cole slaw, hold the mayo?

"This here is the best Bar-Bee-Cue I've ever had!"


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Jennywocky said:


> Bethburgers anyone, pickles and cole slaw, hold the mayo?
> 
> "This here is the best Bar-Bee-Cue I've ever had!"


LOL That is great :laughing:


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)




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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


>


OMG where are you getting these? Or did you make it yourself?


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

theredpanda said:


> OMG where are you getting these? Or did you make it yourself?


Twitter. xD


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

"Mary had a little Beth, 
little Beth, little Beth,
Mary had a little Beth
with cole slaw on the side."

---

But yes, the whole picture of Maggie burning and "You won't need that anymore" to Glenn also does not spell anything good for tonight.


My reasonable guesses for the finale:
1. Beth is being cooked up and fed to the cast.
2. Daryl will have to choose between Rick and the Alley Cats.
3. Carl is going to get shot or raped by the Alley Cats, leaving Rick liable to do anything.
4. Maggie and/or Glenn will die. If Glenn dies, Maggie will be pregnant.
5. Michonne will live. Because she's too cool for school and can never die. Daryl too.
6. Carol and Tyresse show up and kick some ass -- maybe save Sasha, right when the Fine Young Cannibals go to eat our cast. At that point, the Alley Cats might also join up with our heroes... you know, "The enemy of our enemy is our friend" and all that shit.
7. Tomb Raider chick will die because she doesn't stick out enough, but Mullet Head and Walrus Moustache will survive. Because they are cool.

Some of these things might happen.
None might happen.
But they are my suspicions as to the plausible next plot twist(s).


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> 7. Tomb Raider chick will die because she doesn't stick out enough, but Mullet Head and Walrus Moustache will survive. Because they are cool.



* *




Rosita is still alive in the comics; along with Maggie Greene and Eugene, but not Abraham. However, Kirkman has said that the characters still alive in the comics currently are not safe in the television series, so we will see.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Twitter. xD


Ah, nice


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

theredpanda said:


> Ah, nice


Well, links from twitter I guess.


Oh, and speaking of twitter, apparently there's some connection between Mary and this picture Michonne found










I guess they look alike? Idk.


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> Well, links from twitter I guess.


Cool. Walking dead memes/pics are the best


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Yeah, pretty much it doesn't matter who is alive and dead in the comics. This is the TV show. Daryl wasn't even in the comic, and Carol died a long time ago, etc.


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

I've never looked up Walking Dead memes before 

Some I thought were funny:


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

I kind of hope the writers trick us and have them turn out not to be cannibals.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

*room mate walks in while Rick is killing Joe and says something*

I put a hat on the door knob for a reason dumbass. >.<


So did I miss the part where it was revealed that Glenn has the only pocket watch that survived the apocalypse?


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

Just finished the episode.... Heart was beating like crazy...


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## an absurd man (Jul 22, 2012)

The encounter with the "Claimers" was really intense and Rick biting Joe's neck was awesome. Terminus was kind of interesting with the bloody skeletons and ritual room, but besides that it was disappointing. Not as shocking as promised. :/


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy (Nov 22, 2012)

an absurd man said:


> The encounter with the "Claimers" was really intense and Rick biting Joe's neck was awesome. Terminus was kind of interesting with the bloody skeletons and ritual room, but besides that it was disappointing. Not as shocking as promised. :/


I think the writers were trying to create some sort of shock with the whole "Rick's a badass again" thing, but it was kind of weak.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

When they walk past dead zombies on the floor. 
And don't check to see if they're dead.
Take a step-- ankle-- right next to their mouths. 
Think: "OMFG HOW DID YOU SURVIVE FOR THIS LONG?!"


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## theredpanda (Jan 18, 2014)

eydimork said:


> When they walk past dead zombies on the floor.
> And don't check to see if they're dead.
> Take a step-- ankle-- right next to their mouths.
> Think: "OMFG HOW DID YOU SURVIVE FOR THIS LONG?!"


Haha- the characters on the show can be pretty stupid- I agree


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