# How do I Communicate with my Unhealthy INTJ Dad



## IamAlexa (Jan 28, 2021)

mIeNlFP said:


> But I do have a problem with his aggressiveness towards me and when he makes me feel bad it effects me way too much and ruins my day and it is destroying my mental health because I do care about what anyone says to me and I care too much about others emotions way too much.


I have a little INFP brother and I know his fear of "how others think about him".
I will say those things, which I told to my brother and it helped him:
1.) Just like others are creating an opinion in their mind about you. Similarly you also create an opinion in your mind about them. Just like others judge you, similarly you also judge them. Just like others have the power of judgement regarding you, similarly you also hold the power to judge them. Basically, you form a part of their worries (their worries being: how others are perceiving me, how mleNIFP is perceiving me).

2.) Who would be the most unconfident person on this planet?
Answer-> A person who always thinks about_ "how others are thinking about him"_. A person who fears this thing too much can never be confident.



> To be honest I can't like my dad he is very unlikeable but I really do start feeling bad for him how he is doing this to himself because he does not want to be lonely because he will come up to me or my family to talk about what he only want to talk about and criticizes what you like and who you are. I really don't want to feel responsible for his emotions and I am trying not to feel bad for him but it is also numbing and I don't know why. I think I so start moving into a dorm when I get to college.


Ohh so you imagine that if you will not care about his emotions, then he is going to feel sad (because he would be lonely). -------> And you can't see him as sad and lonely. --------> And that's why you take care of his emotions. -------> And then he will say something harsh and he will make you tolerate his mood swings. ---------> And then you feel bad because of those words. --------> So you numb yourself, because if you spoke up in anger then this will upset him -------> And then your relationship with him will be destroyed. --------> And you can't see your relationship with him being destroyed.

Is that the sequence? (I am only guessing based on my experience)


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## Dreamcatcherplaceboeffect (Dec 24, 2020)

Oh my goodness, that _is_ a problem. I grew up with similar difficulties (usually my mom was the caustic parent), however, I was able to “escape” and get out of my house very often—generally returning home when I thought everyone would be turning in for the night.

If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? How many more years do you anticipate living at home?

My situation only drastically improved once I moved out of my parent’s house. 

If you are stuck there, the solutions that come to mind if you _want_ to address the issue:
a) Talk to your mom. Ultimately, she is on more equal footing with your dad, and it isn’t _your_ responsibility to turn him into a healthy adult. Maybe she could act as a go between, or at least stop enabling his rude and disparaging attitude by laughing along and condoning it.
b) Tell your dad that being around him makes you uncomfortable, and that you are worried it may affect your relationship with him in the future, when you no longer live at home. (If that’s not a wake up call to him, I don’t know what will be.) Unfortunately, if you catch him when he is already in a bad mood, he might perceive you as threatening him, which could make everything worse.

My general MO is to avoid, but I understand that may not be realistic for your current situation. It’s certainly not the healthiest option, but there are many times you can’t “heal” and unhealthy personality—and many more times that it’s not your “job”.

I hope things get better for you, or that your circumstance is short-lived.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

minogue said:


> I mean I somewhat agree. I can’t say that their empathy is a bad thing (it’s actually a good thing), but it can’t turn into a form of Stockholm. I personally think finding the source of the issue would help the most for _his_ improvement, since there’s nothing that the initial poster can really do to themselves to change their father. The poster really needs to make sure this doesn’t leave a psychological effect. They need to find someone to talk to and open up to without feeling scared - because at this point what’s missing in their home is the feeling of being a family / love.
> 
> MBTI is pointless for this. The situation is stemming from the father’s insecurities and issues with himself. His self esteem is probably in the negatives, and he probably had his own issues with _his_ parents/family (or a lack thereof). That’s why there’s a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse.
> 
> (By the way, if the initial poster sees this, I have had similar issues with my father - not physical, but definitely psychological. Though it’s nowhere close to the extent of your situation, it may help me understand a bit if you wanted to talk about it a bit more).


I didn't say it is a bad thing necessarily. I treat it as a situational thing. Hindrance at times, like here since I think there is already a Stockholm phase.
It isn't always useful to assume that everything stems from some kind of insecurities and issues. That he is a deeply somewhere a good man that just needed more care.
This is not necessarily the case. And even if it is, there still should be a line after which you decide that you had enough, you need to take care of yourself as well.


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## IamAlexa (Jan 28, 2021)

@mIeNlFP , stop worrying about your *dad's loneliness *and start worrying about your *mom's self respect*.
Focus your energy on the right things and on the right people. Your dad does not deserve your care, when he himself can't care that how his actions are hurting you.
Your mom needs you.

I don't know the exact situation, your culture, the parenting style in your country, the rules and everything... So I can't suggest the exact points on "what to do".

But what I see is, your focus should be on "how to help your mom". And not on "how to communicate with my dad".

There's a simple answer for your thread title: Don't communicate with your dad.

I feel bad for her. She can't stand up for herself and she is unable to protect you too. She can't see the wrong that is happening to her. Her self-respect is being ruined by your dad!



mIeNlFP said:


> He gets very irritated with us and it's hard to communicate with the guy because he gets either mad or cold and ignore you.


(Based on my experience):-
He is either mad or cold and ignorant, because, he fears the truth and he fears that you may do/say something that will shake his throne. He is wanting power over you.
So he will either be mad (when he is asserting his power over you).
Or, he will be cold and ignorant (when he will fear that you may say something that's going to shake his throne). By being cold and ignorant, he basically avoids the real matter that is being discussed.


> he doesn't like it when you smile or actually feel anything or he starts to criticizes you so badly and it makes me feel bad .


Honestly, I don't know the reason for this. It happens with my dad too.
If I be happy about how I got good marks, then he will make me remember my old mistakes and old marks (which weren't good).
If I be happy about the good food that I am going to eat, then he will make me remember how much incapable/unworthy/etc.. person I am.
If my mom does something great, then he will convince everyone that this achievement has no use.
If my bro does something great, then he will convince everyone about my bro's previous weaknesses.

Basically, he can't tolerate you being happy. I don't know what's the reason behind this mindset.


> I hate how he talks to my mother who is EXFP (her N/S is like a 50/50) and guilt her when she doesn't do something fast enough for him like cooking he literally says "Where is my food!" and "Why do you feed the kids but not me." and exaggerate when she makes one mistake calling her dumb. My mom is not innocent either because she enables him by saying "that is just the way he is." and laugh with him when he makes fun of her or us.


Your mom is so innocent that she doesn't even realize what she is being deprived of.... "*Basic self respect*". She needs it.
This is exactly what should be your area of focus.. your mom! Help her. Help her realize what she is missing. Help her realize the importance of her self respect. Help her realize her potential. Protect her. Protect her from dad if you can. That's what you should be doing.


> He also has a lot of weird mood swings where he gets (fake happy) and tells people to smile and talk to him but I feel he like he gets this way because deep inside he is lonely and anti-social and I heard INTJs can be this way and it's okay but the problem is that he actually does not care what you want to say because it's about what he is talking about.


That's where you are getting manipulated! *He is not lonely. *He is manipulating you. He just wants your attention, your empathy, your good manners and everything. But he doesn't want to return all this back to you.


> He barely even knows me but assumes things that are rarely true about me like how I am a cold emotionless person which is not true I only act cold towards him because he turns off when I mention how I feel and my values and hobbies in life. He also acts aggressive and passive-aggressive when he demands something from you. He is very impatient and controlling and as INFP I hate this and I can't tell him to please give me time because he calls me lazy and he stresses me out.


You gotta stop worrying what he thinks about you. Do all people in this world have the same opinion that he has? If not, then stop paying attention to his nonsense.
Focus your energy on productive works, not on "what he thinks about you".
Because, see, he is going to say these kind of words so that you get trapped and you please him, and make him feel superior and etc... So its better that you pay attention somewhere else.


> My main question here though is that as an INFP how do I talk to my dad about things other than himself and make him stop being passive-aggressive because I feel like he does want to talk to us but he is so unhealthy and unhappy and kind of abusive.


*EDIT: Focus on your mom, and not on your dad! *


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## JimT (May 31, 2010)

mIeNlFP said:


> I wanted to post this on another website but it wouldn't allow me so I hope it is allowed over here.
> 
> This is my first post ever and I am very sensitive and have anxiety and knowing this is the internet people might act brutally towards me so if I said anything that offends you I'm sorry but please be nice. If you have nothing nice to say just please don't.
> 
> ...


Concerning the OP: Sounds like the father might have a personality disorder (NPD or BPD, maybe).

"Out of the Fog" is a message board for family members of people with personality disorders--primarily NPD and BPD. Probably worth checking it out and discussing the case with the people there. Link to the message board: Out of the FOG

The website includes resources and tools to help teach such family members to spot abuse and try to avoid the worst effects. The "tools" are largely focused on personal boundaries. One of the big lessons there: You can't change others; you can only change yourself. And you change yourself by setting healthy boundaries, etc.

So check the "Toolbox" and "Resources" tabs along the top of the page when you go there. There is lots of material there about how to handle difficult people, set boundaries, call for help, etc. Link to the "toolbox": Toolbox — Out of the FOG


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## mino (Jul 20, 2020)

Allostasis said:


> I didn't say it is a bad thing necessarily. I treat it as a situational thing. Hindrance at times, like here since I think there is already a Stockholm phase.
> It isn't always useful to assume that everything stems from some kind of insecurities and issues. That he is a deeply somewhere a good man that just needed more care.
> This is not necessarily the case. And even if it is, there still should be a line after which you decide that you had enough, you need to take care of yourself as well.


Valid.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

IamAlexa said:


> Your mom is so innocent that she doesn't even realize what she is being deprived of.... "*Basic self respect*". She needs it.
> This is exactly what should be your area of focus.. your mom! Help her. Help her realize what she is missing. Help her realize the importance of her self respect. Help her realize her potential. Protect her. Protect her from dad if you can. That's what you should be doing


She can be just as bad but in a different way, perpetually feeling like an innocent helpless victim that in practice can't care less about her kids, looking for excuses for every single thing instead of actually lifting a finger to at least try to change this situation like a grown adult. It can be just as pathetic and beyond saving. 
Even OP doesn't believe in her innocence and says how she laughs with father when he mocks his own kids. Such an innocent and poor thing indeed..


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## IamAlexa (Jan 28, 2021)

Allostasis said:


> She can be just as bad but in a different way, perpetually feeling like an innocent helpless victim that in practice can't care less about her kids, looking for excuses for every single thing instead of actually lifting a finger to at least try to change this situation like a grown adult. It can be just as pathetic and beyond saving.
> Even OP doesn't believe in her innocence and says how she laughs with father when he mocks his own kids. Such an innocent and poor thing indeed..


Sometimes people are just incapable of knowing the manipulations around them. Same is with his mom.
This OP, an INFP, I know another INFP in real life (my bro) in the same situation. And I have an ESFP mom.
I have seen the same scene in front of my eyes.
Her mom is not even protecting herself. She is not even able to see that how she is being disrespected. If she can't see the wrong happening to her, how can she see the same wrong happening to someone else?
She does not even feel that this is a wrong situation. So stop judging her intentions. She isn't caring less. She just can't see what her kid INFP is seeing.


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## Allostasis (Feb 2, 2021)

IamAlexa said:


> Sometimes people are just incapable of knowing the manipulations around them. Same is with his mom.
> This OP, an INFP, I know another INFP in real life (my bro) in the same situation. And I have an ESFP mom.
> I have seen the same scene in front of my eyes.
> Her mom is not even protecting herself. She is not even able to see that how she is being disrespected. If she can't see the wrong happening to her, how can she see the same wrong happening to someone else?
> She does not even feel that this is a wrong situation. So stop judging her intentions. She isn't caring less. She just can't see what her kid INFP is seeing.


This is your personal interpretation of what she feels and understands.
I am not the one who makes assumptions, justifies her and calls to action. You are.

I can draw experiences supporting opposite conclusion, that won't prove anything.

I am just saying that her innocence is questionable.


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## IamAlexa (Jan 28, 2021)

Allostasis said:


> This is your personal interpretation of what she feels and understands.


She isn't protecting herself. She laughs with her husband when her husband creates jokes about her. She has no problem with her husband's rude behaviour towards her.


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## mino (Jul 20, 2020)

Um @IamAlexa I don’t believe the focus should be on the mother at the moment. Don’t take this the wrong way, but you may be basing your advice on your own situation. We aren’t given enough information on OP’s mother to draw that kind of conclusion. 

Right now, OP should be focused on finding the truth overall.

Also @Allostasis I wasn’t initially trying to say that OP’s father was a ‘good guy deep down’ (though that may be true of everyone to an extent). Rather, I was suggesting that sourcing the issue would help OP handle the situation better.


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## mIeNlFP (Mar 8, 2021)

IamAlexa said:


> I have a little INFP brother and I know his fear of "how others think about him".
> I will say those things, which I told to my brother and it helped him:
> 1.) Just like others are creating an opinion in their mind about you. Similarly you also create an opinion in your mind about them. Just like others judge you, similarly you also judge them. Just like others have the power of judgement regarding you, similarly you also hold the power to judge them. Basically, you form a part of their worries (their worries being: how others are perceiving me, how mleNIFP is perceiving me).
> 
> ...


Yes it is closely like that you have it on the ball. Sorry I know I sound like I have low self-esteem and that is kinda my flaw but I should stop caring what others think about me. I have an INFJ sister that told me I am too selfless because if I care about what horrible people like my dad think about me then they are winning. She also said that feeling bad for people who will never feel bad for me is pointless.(she tells me this but in a much better way.) So this might sound odd but what helps me is telling myself that I am living for me so I don't have to be worked up on others emotions and what others think about me.
If that's a weird thing to do sorry but it helps me .


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## mIeNlFP (Mar 8, 2021)

Dreamcatcherplaceboeffect said:


> Oh my goodness, that _is_ a problem. I grew up with similar difficulties (usually my mom was the caustic parent), however, I was able to “escape” and get out of my house very often—generally returning home when I thought everyone would be turning in for the night.
> 
> If you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? How many more years do you anticipate living at home?
> 
> ...


I am 18 years old so I am at the age where I could move out but that is way easier said than done to do right now especially since I have a lot of anxiety when I go outside. For a) trust me I have talked to my mom but everything is a joke to her even though she is aware that he is annoying but like I said she will give him excuses and rationalize all this in her head. I also feel bad for my mom too but I can talk to her and she will understand but say "What can she do about it your dad never listens." because she is right that is the main problem he will never communicate with him because it always makes him mad and critical. For b) that is something very hard to do and I already know how that will play out. He would say words that will cut like a knife and act like I am attacking him because even when I tell him the most simplest things he needs to work on he makes things up and at like I'm talking back or something. Thank you for the help and understanding but the best realistic thing I can do is probably find a dorm when I get to college. I have always dealt with his behavior since forever but quarantine is driving me crazy and I just wanted to find a way to handle someone like him so I guessed maybe understanding how to handle an unhealthy INTJ could help a bit.🤷‍♀️


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

I think you should do your best to come up with some sort of plan. Anything is better than nothing.
If anxiety is an issue for you, then start to slowly expose yourself to what makes you afraid. Nothing ventured, nothing gained otherwise.
My grandfather was agoraphobic, and he didn't leave his house for 30 years. Imagine how much of his life he wasted because he was afraid. I don't want that for anyone. 

But I sympathise with your situation in regards to your father, trust me, he isn't going to change. The best thing for you to do is to remove yourself from the situation. 
Again, make sure to take smaller steps towards something. It will make dealing with your father in the short term much easier if you know you are on your way out.
Once you feel like you are able to get out of the house, find a job. It doesn't have to be anything fancy at first, but slowly weed off your dependency from your parents. 
Then you never know, then you might be able to afford a small apartment. It might not be much at first, but I think you'll be happier in the long run.


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## mIeNlFP (Mar 8, 2021)

IamAlexa said:


> @mIeNlFP , stop worrying about your *dad's loneliness *and start worrying about your *mom's self respect*.
> Focus your energy on the right things and on the right people. Your dad does not deserve your care, when he himself can't care that how his actions are hurting you.
> Your mom needs you.
> 
> ...


I do worry for my mom so much and I know I worded wrong but she is completely innocent and works hard for us and treat us right way more than he has. The problem I was saying about her is that he does not help us or herself when talking to our dad and I know it's hard but I can't stand the enabling. I actually thought maybe if I communicate with him he will leave all of us and my mom alone. I used to tell my mom to never let him talk to her rudely and to never laugh but she is a very optimistic person and idealistic or at least far from realistic believing everything will change soon when she works hard (but she already works way too hard and has way too much faults hope.) I know my mom deserves better and I actually feel bad and worry about her the most, to be honest . 

About the part putting people down for no reason when he sees us happy is what I will assume comes from him being such a critical person and arrogant and if your dad was similar to that maybe he was known to be critical too. I honestly think is coming from his narcissist tendencies I assume at least from my dad. 

I'm going to not focus on communicating with my dad like I first intended because I'm getting the feeling of still avoid him from this discussion. I think it is better to still just focus on my mom because my dad does not honestly deserve the help.


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## Wax Diamond (Apr 9, 2020)

minogue said:


> I don’t know why the gif is there but ok-


Well my unconscious often comes out when I don't expect it. What can I do !🤐


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## Wax Diamond (Apr 9, 2020)

mIeNlFP said:


> I do worry for my mom so much and I know I worded wrong but she is completely innocent and works hard for us and treat us right way more than he has. The problem I was saying about her is that he does not help us or herself when talking to our dad and I know it's hard but I can't stand the enabling. I actually thought maybe if I communicate with him he will leave all of us and my mom alone. I used to tell my mom to never let him talk to her rudely and to never laugh but she is a very optimistic person and idealistic or at least far from realistic believing everything will change soon when she works hard (but she already works way too hard and has way too much faults hope.) I know my mom deserves better and I actually feel bad and worry about her the most, to be honest .
> 
> About the part putting people down for no reason when he sees us happy is what I will assume comes from him being such a critical person and arrogant and if your dad was similar to that maybe he was known to be critical too. I honestly think is coming from his narcissist tendencies I assume at least from my dad.
> 
> I'm going to not focus on communicating with my dad like I first intended because I'm getting the feeling of still avoid him from this discussion. I think it is better to still just focus on my mom because my dad does not honestly deserve the help.


Sorry to contradict you on that point : she isn't innocent ( she is uncounsciously afraid to lose him/his "support" and so she does not say what she should as a protective figure, or any other fear around -being rejected, being despised herself, feeing judged etc etc-). 
Thinking this way is dangerous as, again, you put yourself in some adults shoes right now by saying so. 
And it leads to a vicious circle.
Do you have the opportunity to go and see a therapist ?
In the family the vicious circle will go on so, due to what you described it is the next step for you to feel good.
What do you think ?


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