# Role - the neurotic function



## ShuttleRun (Jan 5, 2017)

I think this is a fairly useful way to spot a type.

The role function (3rd function) is often associated with sometimes the type being neurotically obsessed with it, even though it's obvious to others that they're not very good at it.

For example:

EXTjs (Fe role) neurotically worry that they're perceived as warm and friendly.
EXFjs (Te role) neurotically worry that they're perceived as being professional and business-like.
INXps (Si role) neurotically worry about their health.

and so on.


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## Sylas (Jul 23, 2016)

Are you obsessively preoccupied with Si? How much time do you spend on this function?


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## ShuttleRun (Jan 5, 2017)

Sylas said:


> Are you obsessively preoccupied with Si? How much time do you spend on this function?


I'm not sure how much "time" I spend with it, but sometimes I get neurotically obsessed with my health and may turn into a health freak. I also get overly worried about my health deteriorating, and I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of getting sick or physically ill. I think the Role function kind of acts like Hidden Agenda.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

I obsess over things not making sense and over little details not falling into place, and over trust, and over possessiveness, and over shitawkward situations of giving up a seat in public transport, and over everything going down the drain, and over injustice, and over feeling of powerlessness, and over insignificance, and over inability to stop the ongoing decay, and over losing what's dear, and over going sicker, weaker, slower, and over becoming someone else - a stranger I'm not sure I want to know. And sometimes there are days when I feel content and inspired. And everything makes sense. I guess that's what they call neuroticism on Big Five.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

I can see how sometimes Si issues can get blown out of proportion yeah.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

I don't see the Role function as having much potential to develop neuroses in of itself. The Role is a 2D function, so the potential is there to rise at least to the level of societal norms in issues regarding that function. 

What seems more likely to me is that intensive and repeated exposure to the Superego functions (Role and PoLR baked into the same ego block) by way of having to constantly interact with a Superego or Conflictor type in a weaker area (say, a mismatched job) or at a vulnerable time (perhaps early childhood) could be experienced as trauma, create various defensive complexes, and lead to various aberrant emotional/functional issues later on. 

Gulenko, I believe, once wrote that a key to actual self development rests in developing competence in the Role. To me the Role function is better understood as an alternative approach to the way you'd approach issues using your Base function, one you'd usually reject. You could, however, make your life a lot better taking your Role into consideration now and then. In this way, it can be very enriching to have friends or family who are your Business partner or Supervisee and make an attempt to learn situational tips and tricks by watching the way they handle various issues. 

As an Si-Role, a good example of "ignoring Si" for the priority of Ni happened lwhen I first moved out on my own. Ni as we know is about prioritizing time and processes thru time over physical sensation. The low tire pressure light in my car turned on because it became really cold outside and the air in my tires compressed. My Si parents make it a habit to always check their tire pressure in the fall, but I decided to just sort of defer action, and wait for the right time to present itself given all of the things I had been up to at the time. It's common sense to them to take care of possessions routinely, whereas for me Ni says there is a time when those things are needed/not UNLESS/UNTIL I learn that these things constitute the bear minimum in that function. Which, I learned when my tire exploded, and now accept that I have to keep an eye on the pressure at certain times. I check it now, but have to convince myself that it's really dumb to just let things go, which again trades against the Ni mindset of simply waiting for everything to happen. 

I can definitely attest to having a more secured lifestyle when taking care of Role issues. It's not a painful area, but rather one that feels unnecessary until I learn that it is necessary at least to the level of norms.


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## Felipe (Feb 25, 2016)

ShuttleRun said:


> EXTjs (Fe role) neurotically worry that they're perceived as warm and friendly.
> EXFjs (Te role) neurotically worry that they're perceived as being professional and business-like.
> INXps (Si role) neurotically worry about their health.
> 
> ...


wait, you do know that neuroticism is cause by a conflict between the program function and the suggestive right?


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## ShuttleRun (Jan 5, 2017)

Figure said:


> My Si parents make it a habit to always check their tire pressure in the fall, but I decided to just sort of defer action, and wait for the right time to present itself given all of the things I had been up to at the time. It's common sense to them to take care of possessions routinely, whereas for me Ni says there is a time when those things are needed/not UNLESS/UNTIL I learn that these things constitute the bear minimum in that function. Which, I learned when my tire exploded, and now accept that I have to keep an eye on the pressure at certain times. I check it now, but have to convince myself that it's really dumb to just let things go, which again trades against the Ni mindset of simply waiting for everything to happen.


Hmm, I can see that.



> I can definitely attest to having a more secured lifestyle when taking care of Role issues. It's not a painful area, but rather one that feels unnecessary until I learn that it is necessary at least to the level of norms.


I think that's interesting. It might explain why when something happens to IXI's health (that they have been ignoring) or read about something, they suddenly get overly worried about their health and often turn into health freaks as a precaution.


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## ShuttleRun (Jan 5, 2017)

Felipe said:


> wait, you do know that neuroticism is cause by a conflict between the program function and the suggestive right?


I'm just using the word "neurotic" in a way to mean obsessive-compulsive. I'm not using it in the usual psychological/mental health definition, which is a defunct word/term anyway.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

ShuttleRun said:


> Hmm, I can see that.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that's interesting. It might explain why when something happens to IXI's health (that they have been ignoring) or read about something, they suddenly get overly worried about their health and often turn into health freaks as a precaution.


Possibly. There can definitely be a sudden need to tend to Role areas, though I'd argue the possibility that this habit may be more an Si/Ni dynamic given that Ni is so time dependent. 

In addition to health as you mentioned, I've had more than enough occasions of suddenly realizing my apartment is a complete mess, then spending an entire day cleaning every nook and cranny. Or, noticing suddenly that I'm no longer fit and trying a new diet or workout regimen (that always inevitably fades away as a habit). Or, having 10 doctor's appointments in a week that I've put off for ages. Suddenly realizing that my clothes have become old and raggy and need replaced. Wouldn't it be great to do these things all the time, but then that means you can't allow yourself to think of a better time to do them when you feel inert. 

Ni Roles have their own issues too, just to vindicate us a bit  They may know subconsciously that something bad is about to happen or something won't end well, but fall back on accepting only the information they can be sure of in the here and now and miss the window to fix the situation before it unfolds (and lead to big picture life situations that aren't pleasurable at all). They may decide something isn't important and can be delayed, but then not remember to bring it back up when it does become important. They may be uncomfortable in the present, but not recognize that the discomfort is temporary and well worth the wait. 


I think for the record that IEI/SEI-Fe and ILI/SLI-Te are on average a lot better with their Roles because of subtype. In watering down emphasis on Base function as the main Perceiving channel they free up capacity to be open to Role ideas. I've met SEI and SLI Creative subtype who can very much mimic Intuitive types and not really appear to struggle with Ni ideas.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

These one-dimensional (ha pun) descriptions of function/IE combos don't really do a lot of good because you don't point out why they are manifesting, which is the real root and predictor, rather than the behavioral "symptom", which can occur in any number of ways.


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## Rabid Seahorse (Mar 10, 2015)

Ehh. I feel like the Suggestive function contains more of our complexes and obsessions than the Role function. I can't explain the logic behind it, but the Suggestive function almost has a privileged place in our psyche (being valued but one-dimensional and only containing personal experience). I haven't known too many INXp's obsessed with health or IXTj's obsessed with relationships, etc. It's always been the Suggestive.



ShuttleRun said:


> I'm not sure how much "time" I spend with it, but sometimes I get neurotically obsessed with my health and may turn into a health freak. I also get overly worried about my health deteriorating, and I'm really uncomfortable with the idea of getting sick or physically ill. *I think the Role function kind of acts like Hidden Agenda.*


I can see this. Both are two-dimensional functions. They can take on norms and you can become decent and adequate at them but you won't do anything amazing or spectacular with them. To outside observers the Role and Hidden Agenda appear about equal in strength. 

The main difference is how it feels for you internally when you use it. Using your Hidden Agenda feels like a hobby or pastime; using your Role feels like a chore.


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## Mr Oops (Jun 29, 2016)

Role is more like let's pull it off function. I have to do it with cringe. I'd rather not but...

When it comes to 2D. At least with some SLIs Fi HA is like can't you be more obvious with your attitudes (well, maybe it is better than my non attitudes).  where as their role is something I can tickle this will be it...) with Ne acceptiveness.


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## ColdWindsRising (Feb 11, 2016)

Hm, Role as obsessive function ... possibly.

I tend to forget about taking care of my health, my appearance and my environment, but I get a lot happier when I do. Sometimes I make a resolution to do more about it, but it's difficult to keep it up and make it a proper routine. This on-again off-again makes it very frustrating in its own way. My suggestive function Se always seem 'off', which isn't as frustrating. I have simply accepted that it needs to be sparked by others.


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