# Enneagram Defense Mechanisms, Idealization and Avoidance Patterns



## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm retired from posting, but I'll do this just for you, @_Boss_ 

* 1. What do you currently type as?*

Well, I type as 5 and 8 but I'm most definitely an Sp/Sx 7.

* 2. Which of these defense mechanisms do you identify with (likely more than one)? If you are able to note an enduring pattern with one of these mostly unconscious a) defense mechanisms [and even b) idealization and c) avoidance patterns], comment on the same.*

From the list: Rationalization (7) >> Denial (8) > Identification (3)* > Isolation (5)
*Pretty recently came to accept this. Hah, denied/rationalized it.

I also think I use introjection quite a bit but not the way it's described here. I over-value my positive subjective experiences.

* 3. Put the enneagram aside for a bit. What role/image do you idealize? What do you avoid being? How do your defenses (including those not on the list) tie in with this?*

I idealize being something like a wise sage or shaman; breadth of knowledge and experience. Being seen as someone who excels in every area of life, not just some.

I'm too lazy to elaborate =P


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Boss said:


> Overall, I get the sense that projection, at least, especially in a type 6 sense has to do with shifting blame (@_Julia Bell_ and @_mushr00m_ touched on this). I don't relate to this part of projection at all._ *What I call projection is just assuming that someone I dislike is an incompetent fuckin idiot, a worthless nobody and at most, a dismal failure.*_ All of it revolves around competency, and my own insecurity regarding competency, recognition and worth. The other projection is calling someone a flake or a kitschy tool lacking substance/classiness/style.


Well, what's odd is when I "judge" somebody it's not quite like that, lol (although I have had my _very _angry moments and my thoughts are not at all pretty and innocent). I do think the part of projection I relate to is shifting blame. I am looking back on my post now and I still agree with what I said in it, which is good -- sometimes I write things and I realize I only wrote that thing about myself because I was in a certain mood. Like the post will be half true. I didn't do that this time. Anyways, I think what sums the feeling up perfectly that I wrote down is trying to put the blame on something I know I nor anybody else can get mad at. If I put the blame on the person, I give the person a good excuse too. "She was just tired... Therefore she got on me a bit unfairly and hurt me." The reality will be that yes, she (I have no idea who "she" is, this is all hypothetical) might have been tired, but she didn't get on me unfairly and it hurt me because I didn't want the criticism. That's pretty much exactly what I do. Sounds like Six plus Nine morphing into something here. XD 



> From what I have observed, some 6s project two things on others quite a bit (esp. in a conflict) 1. self-victimization 2. an attacking stance. This applies more to 6s that aren't very emotionally unhealthy. What ends up happening is that the 6 is able to launch a rather scathing attack on another person/ideology/belief system, while feeling victimized. I see this from cp 6s. The unhealthier (not E health levels) phobic 6s tend to project their feelings of victimization/being disadvantaged on unrelated situations, easily perceiving (at times, random) people as underdogs and strongly identifying with them. Do some 6s relate to this?


Yes to the self victimization. I can say under stress and when I am not in a good mood whatsoever and when my thinking takes on a darker tinge, I am more likely to swing towards the description you made about the phobic Six. 



> @_Julia Bell_, that was a very honest post. Here's what I gleaned from it:
> 
> 1. Your defense mechanism, outside the list, is a very common sp6 phobic defense, which is giving off the appearance of harmlessness to ward off threats.


Thank you.  And I agree 100%. 



> 2. You're confused about the connection/disconnection between idealization and defense mechanism. From what I see, your idealized image is that of a selfless, principled, authentic, kind etc. person. You pointed out a variety of defense mechanisms you use to accomplish this. *The projection of negativity on someone/something outside of yourself seems to help with maintaining your idealized image.* Under stress, you seem to employ narcotization and rationalization .


Yes it does. It's always painful to come back down to "reality" (because really, I am not only deceiving others but first and foremost deceiving myself when I do this). When I am in a "good mood" and generally more of my healthy, stable self, it is easier to come back down to "reality" quicker. I can catch myself beginning to project. 

There is a weird mix of it being both harder and easier to simply admit to things. I like to try and admit to things as soon as possible. 

Don't get me wrong. I still don't always admit to things quickly. XD I am very good, as I have already mentioned, at projecting, putting on fake images, and deceiving.

But it is nice to know that I can get better about all of this. 

You pinpointed me very well, Boss. ^_^


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

*Order of relation 7-8-5-9-6-4-2-1-3*

I wonder if we should make a quiz out of this, make people rate how often they use these to help determine type?
----
7 - rationalization. Guilty as charged.

8 - denial to avoid vulnerability. Dulled senses and an illusion of not having fear. That did not hurt, and I refuse to admit anything.

5 - Isolation. Good ol' social isolation problems. It's all too easy to let go of others and intellectualize everything.

9 - Narcotization. Familiar things make me comfortable, and I don't have to think about the negative if I'm "calm". I've no desire to avoid conflict if it isn't boring though.

6 - Projection. Oh no! My sorrow threatens my sense of self! If I hate expressing it, you must hate me expressing it as well. Surely you also find my problems reprehensibly minor, and my drama equally overblown and disgusting?

I don't much care for you, therefore you must feel the same. Default opinion of me is set to "meh", and I never automatically assume that people like me for me.

4 - introjection. I may act like my friends / family in unfamiliar situations when I haven't decided on a personal course of action. Almost never on the negative side of this though - e.g. feeling guilty for others' faults.

2 - Repression. Repression of needs - only in terms of required comfort from others. Now forcibly suppress it and try to fix others, and so deal with similar issues indirectly. Nothing I'm proud of.

1 - Reaction formation. rarely, as far as I know. Owing to the 7 stance of flight from pain, I may act excessively cutesy and dreamy to avoid hateful whining. Or perhaps I'm feeling overly masculine, so I throw on a dress and a necklace and feel satisfied when I look like what I'm supposed to be.

3 - identification to avoid failure and maintain a self image of being successful. Only when I'm role-playing, or giving a speech. Nothing I can keep up for long.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

@Boss

You'll definitely have to explain that thought.

This stood out to me in your SO explanation:



> So, they don't deserve to get to know how I feel.


Why "deserve?"


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Double post!

Time for a picture!


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Marlowe said:


> @Boss
> 
> You'll definitely have to explain that thought.
> 
> ...


Oh, I see.

When someone opens up to me emotionally, it's a tremendous show of trust. Every time, an SO or another person has honestly shared their emotions with me, I have considered it an honour. I don't take it lightly. Getting a glimpse or heck the permission to enter (applies to the SO situation) my emotional world is a privilege not a right. It has to be earned. Hence, the use of the word "deserve".


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

Boss said:


> Oh, I see.
> 
> When someone opens up to me emotionally, it's a tremendous show of trust. Every time, an SO or another person has honestly shared their emotions with me, I have considered it an honour. I don't take it lightly. Getting a glimpse or heck the permission to enter (applies to the SO situation) my emotional world is a privilege not a right. It has to be earned. Hence, the use of the word "deserve".


Got it.

In the context of how you wrote it,



> I don't expect anyone to understand my so-called feelings. I don't think people have the maturity or life experience to comprehend or respect where I am coming from. So, they don't deserve to get to know how I feel. It's my damn business and no one else's.


I thought you meant you simply decided people couldn't understand you, therefore they didn't deserve to (a sort of self-fulfilling thinking that lacks a 'trust' rationale).

My bad.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Marlowe



The paragraph you quoted was written with my defenses in mind. It explained my thought process when in the grips of my defense mechanism. When unconsciously using denial and rationalization, after the usual "all feelings get converted to anger" phase, my response is to put up a wall to keep people out. And, I've touched on the earning of trust (in the emotional context) aspect above.
More generally, that quote was referring to a deep emotional understanding, the kind that naturally requires, as I said, trust, closeness, and maturity. 


And, as far as people in general go, I don't seek being (emotionally) understood. I might even enjoy being misunderstood (w4 playing in). As long as they follow my thought processes and ideas just fine, that's all I require. It's just efficient and effective communication when both parties follow each others' line of thought.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Alright I'm back =P

I wanted to discuss some things I've been reflecting on during my time away from PerC. I learned much more about myself in 3 weeks than I did in the 9 months prior, but that's to be expected considering what I was doing.

*Input is welcome. I want to know how any of this ties to Enneagram.* (And dare I say it, inferior functions).

~ I'm extremely oblivious to my "problems", to the point of complete denial I have any. When I see one rear its head, I think "oh it's no big deal, it will go away". Compiling this very list in my mind was extremely difficult, simply because I was just so in denial about the existence of any of it.

~ I always want to appear "on top of things", both to myself and to others. It's unbelievably embarrassing to look like I'm having any problems. Even the most trivial things, such as putting a tent together. The worst thing is being asked if I need any help. I have a strong internal reaction against that question. It feels like a threat to my personal competence. It's different if I identify a task for someone to help me with and ask them myself. Then I'm "on top of it" and just delegating.

~ On that note, I have a fear of vulnerability. I want to be honest with people and let them know my weaknesses to become closer, but part of me is scared of it. Even the way I talk about them, I almost always put them in the past, saying "I've improved a _lot_ there, it's no longer an issue", maintaining my image of competence. Not only to them, but to myself. I always feel like I've conquered my past demons and am "winning" at life. That's far, far from the case.

~ I have an intimacy problem. I have an issue showing "softer" emotions, along with "weak" emotions. Interestingly enough, it seems like this explains my aversion to PDA (public displays of affection). Even privately, I am embarrassed to "expose" myself (figuratively!). I put so many guards up that one-to-one interaction can be terrifying. This slowly melts away as I get closer to the person(s) involved, but until then, there are parts of me that remain "hidden".

~ This one I had a super hard time admitting: I fear negative judgement. Yep, I said it. I disclaim myself so much because I don't want to be misinterpreted or look like I've missed perspectives. I can't stand it when I find out someone has an incorrect negative image of me, and confront them right away to clear it up. It's amazing what a little more data can do for people. I don't admit to failing at anything, but if it's clear I did, I explain it away with external circumstances.

~ My instinctual response to being too involved/overwhelmed by people and the "social sphere" is to escape it entirely. The idea of leaving a town of people I know for an extended period is ridiculously appealing, and I've done it multiple times. On a smaller scale, I do this in my daily life. If I'm at a party, I step aside for a while and regain my sense of self, or if I've had a lot of interaction in one week, I take a quiet weekend at my parents' house. Basically what this boils down to, is my natural response to stress is to move _away_ from people, not towards.

~ This next point nicely combines the above few. If I'm experiencing any immediate stress or difficulty, I rip myself away from people and try to solve it myself as soon as possible. Partially because I can't stand people seeing me suffer, partially because I feel I am more irrational and will say things I regret, partially because my sense of comfort comes from conquering things for myself. I had a cathartic cry while camping, accompanied by the realization that "it's okay to show weakness" and it's okay to allow others to help or comfort. I thought no one heard, but a complete stranger came to me and gave me a hug. It was great.

~ Fuck, I'm so fucking wired on caffeine, I'm typing up a shitstorm.

~ I have the incredible inability to "give in" and "let go" to external influence. I need to be in control and on top of any situation I face. Going with the flow is incredibly difficult. I'm always aware of time and resources and schedules, and most of all my own plans and intentions. If anything unpredicted gets in the way, it's extremely frustrating, especially variables like people, which are difficult to predict/calculate. This issue ties into my next point.

~ I have pretty extreme hypochondriasis. Sometimes my body feels like it's at war with me and unexpectedly "ruins my plans". I know it's an illusion, but I get terrified when I experience physical discomfort in any way, because I have such a strong sense of control and agency. I have been practicing mind-body connection for years, yet still I don't feel fully capable of coming to terms with my body's natural reactions and just "let go". The idea of being helpless and powerless are the core of this serious fear. I am a fighter.

I can keep going but this is long and I can't sit still.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Spades
Which of the defense mechanisms do you see in play in relation to each of these points? You'll have to really ponder that and share, if you like. That's a good list. Break it down, and pay attention to which of your defenses are in play there. That's the best way to go about it.

I see a lot of denial and rationalization there. This is common to id types, especially. I see a lot of emphasis on competence. I know what that's all about. I have very similar issues when it comes to asking for help, displaying "soft" emotions and relinquishing control. I see a strong id influence there, and I am sure you have 7 and 3 in your tritype. 7-3-gut fix (I see a strong 8 wing). The last point is just very sp first. I am noticing a pattern of hypochondria among sp firsts, in fact, I probably have a mild form myself. Mine stems from medical negligence that led to a late cancer diagnosis for my father. I had inflammation in my facial nerves (I was about 12), and for some odd reason, parts of my face would go numb. This went on for years. Around the same time, a neighbour suddenly developed facial paralysis (she was only 19). I didn't want to end up like her. My father's illness had left quite an impression on me lofl. So, those are the roots of my mostly mild hypochondria. But, I am very in tune with my body and ensuring it's well looked after.


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## Choice (May 19, 2012)

Spades said:


> ~ I have an intimacy problem. I have an issue showing "softer" emotions, along with "weak" emotions. Interestingly enough, it seems like this explains my aversion to PDA (public displays of affection). Even privately, I am embarrassed to "expose" myself (figuratively!). I put so many guards up that one-to-one interaction can be terrifying. This slowly melts away as I get closer to the person(s) involved, but until then, there are parts of me that remain "hidden".


(how did I not realize) Thanks, I'm just gonna do nothing but stalk you for the rest of my self awareness campaign. :tongue: 

hypochondria } omg some of my most retarded childhood fears. e.g. some medical tv show about a death rash, and I badger my mum for a clinic trip after a mild allergic reaction.
@_Boss_ How many sp peeps have you heard this from :O


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Spades
I see 7w?, 3w4 and 8w? in some order and Sp/Sx


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Jiktin
About 7/8? lol

-- I will be responding to some of you, personally, as soon as I am able--- @Tortured, @Etherea
I'd like to hear from you guys too, if convenient.


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## Spades (Aug 31, 2011)

Spades said:


> I wanted to discuss *some things I've been reflecting on during my time away from PerC*. I learned much more about myself in 3 weeks than I did in the 9 months prior, but that's to be expected considering what I was doing.





Boss said:


> @_Spades_
> Which of the defense mechanisms do you see in play in relation to each of these points? You'll have to really ponder that and share, if you like. That's a good list. Break it down, and pay attention to which of your defenses are in play there. That's the best way to go about it.





Jiktin said:


> (how did I not realize) Thanks, I'm just gonna do nothing but stalk you for the rest of my self awareness campaign. :tongue:





Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_Spades_
> I see 7w?, 3w4 and 8w? in some order and Sp/Sx


Whooo, thanks! Keep in mind the part I bolded: These are only a tiny *subset* of all the "core motivations and fears" that I have. If I were to include _all_ of them (my god O_O), then it would quickly become evident that there is more Seven emphasis as well as influence from *all* the types (I really can't find the Two in me though...)

So while I've been exploring Type 3 influences, I've dropped the notion of Tritype (at least for the time being). I see the nine types as being universal human qualities, some which affect individuals way more than others. The order of strength that they affects us is unique and doesn't have to follow a tritype ordering.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Spades
I am aware. I am finding that core type and instincts really are sufficient. I just play around with tritype theory these days. And, the defense mechanisms provide some insights into your personality and are a good starting point for further exploration. I wouldn't use them strictly as a typing tool.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Boss said:


> @_Jiktin_
> About 7/8? lol
> 
> -- I will be responding to some of you, personally, as soon as I am able--- @_Tortured_, @_Etherea_
> I'd like to hear from you guys too, if convenient.


Hmm. Do you want me to answer the questions?


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Tortured
It's up to you. If the material was of interest and you'd like to comment on something, feel free. You don't necessarily have to answer the questions.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Boss said:


> @_Tortured_
> It's up to you. If the material was of interest and you'd like to comment on something, feel free. You don't necessarily have to answer the questions.


Ok 

In all honesty. These are the ones that struck out as most like me.



> 8) Eights use denial to avoid vulnerability and to maintain a self image of being strong. Denial means to power up in the body center and forcefully re-direct energy and attention through willfulness and control. Vulnerable feelings are automatically put away and not experienced. Emotional energy is reduced, while instinctual energy is increased. Receptivity necessarily involves some vulnerability, so Eights seek to impact the world and other people rather than be receptive to them.





> 5) Fives use isolation to avoid the experience of inner emptiness and maintain a self image of being knowledgeable. Isolation can be physical withdrawal from others, but it also means withdrawing on the inside from one's emotions and staying up in the head. Acquiring knowledge becomes a way to create safety and self worth, but an over-emphasis on the intellect prevents Fives from connecting with the life force in their bodies and the support available in relationship with others.





> 4) Fours use introjection to avoid ordinariness and maintain a self image of being authentic. Positive introjection is an attempt to overcome the feeling of deficiency by seeking value from an idealized experience, work or relationship and internalizing this through the emotional center. This also leads to negative introjection: Fours tend blame themselves for whatever goes wrong in personal relationships. Their experience of loss or abandonment can take form inside as a self-rejecting voice (a negative introject) which leads to pervasive feelings of unworthiness.





> 1) Ones use reaction formation to avoid anger (i.e. direct anger) and stay in control of their feelings and instincts in order to maintain a self image of being right. Reaction formation is feeling one thing and then expressing the opposite or at least something unrelated, such as feeling resentful but acting nice, feeling a need to rest but working harder. The relentless demand of the inner critic to be good and do good at all times replaces personal needs and shuts down feelings.


I do think they're reaching just a little here. 

I don't see how each type can have a specific defence mechanism. I seem to be relating to pretty much all but 7 at this point. 

However, I will say that my ex was a 7 and it sounds an awful lot like her. 

Edit: @_Boss_ .. I added more that I related to.

Edit 2: Sorry if I seem a little un-interested here o.0 This is unlike me.


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## Tyche (May 12, 2011)

I relate to every description except the five. I think almost anyone would based on the fact that our tritypes (obviously) include influences from six enneatypes, plus growth and stress points.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Etherea

Everyone uses all of these defense mechanisms. The key is to look into what your primary defense system is. For most people, the type specific one is core. Some others don't relate as much. 
@Tortured
No problem! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. You didn't seem disinterested.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Interesting list!



Boss said:


> 1) *Ones* use *reaction formation* to avoid anger (i.e. direct anger) and stay in control of their feelings and instincts in order to maintain a self image of being right. Reaction formation is feeling one thing and then expressing the opposite or at least something unrelated, such as feeling resentful but acting nice, feeling a need to rest but working harder. The relentless demand of the inner critic to be good and do good at all times replaces personal needs and shuts down feelings.


I don't relate to this as a defense mechanism at all. I do this out of necessity, so I might mask my emotions one way or the other depending on the situation, but it would be a circumstantial thing, not something I'd do as part of a desire to appease an inner critic. I am not ashamed of my impulses or anger, so any attempt to go against either is entirely a matter of expediency.



> 2) *Twos* use *repression *of personal needs and feelings to avoid being needy and to maintain a self image of being helpful. Repression is putting one's "unacceptable" feelings and impulses out of awareness by converting them into a more acceptable kind of emotional energy. Self-esteem depends on winning the approval of others. This can take the form of being overly nice, flattering people, and a superficial friendliness. Or it can show up as an attitude of entitlement. Their genuine need for connection takes the form of "you need me."


I relate to this, but not in the way it's described here, and not for the same reasons. I think this is somewhat common to all positive outlook types, as avoiding negative emotions and feeling good is a priority for each.



> 3) *Threes* use *identification *to avoid failure and maintain a self image of being successful. Identification is stepping into a role so completely that Threes lose contact with who they are inside. The pressure to keep up a winning image prevents access to personal feelings and needs. Attention goes to the external environment: the tasks to be done and the expectations of other people. Threes find it very difficult to drop the role, or drop the image, since they get so much positive reinforcement in a society that values achievement and success.


Now THIS... I understand. However, the reasoning behind this is a bit different. With me, I tend to lose myself in a particular subject of interest to a degree where I try on qualities and ideas that may not be 100% me. However, this is both to a) soak up the entire experience as deeply as possible, and squeeze as much of the energy as I can from it, and b) to try things on, see what I like, and decide on what works for me and what I wish to continue doing, and on what isn't me and should be discarded. It's sort of like taking an intellectual bath, but on a much deeper level. With me though, this ends as soon as the excitement and high wears off... more like the end of a honeymoon. 



> 4)* Fours* use *introjection* to avoid ordinariness and maintain a self image of being authentic. Positive introjection is an attempt to overcome the feeling of deficiency by seeking value from an idealized experience, work or relationship and internalizing this through the emotional center. This also leads to negative introjection: Fours tend blame themselves for whatever goes wrong in personal relationships. Their experience of loss or abandonment can take form inside as a self-rejecting voice (a negative introject) which leads to pervasive feelings of unworthiness.


I definitely don't relate to this. Fours are weird. :laughing:



> 5) *Fives* use *isolation* to avoid the experience of inner emptiness and maintain a self image of being knowledgeable. Isolation can be physical withdrawal from others, but it also means withdrawing on the inside from one's emotions and staying up in the head. Acquiring knowledge becomes a way to create safety and self worth, but an over-emphasis on the intellect prevents Fives from connecting with the life force in their bodies and the support available in relationship with others.


 Yes, I also do this, at least, the first part of it. I know I don't detach in the same way as fives do, though; I would likely go crazy with boredom. With me, knowledge becomes a base from where I can further experience and play with the world at large, not a castle to withdraw from it.



> 6) *Sixes* use *projection* to avoid rejection and to maintain a self image of being loyal. Projection is a way of attributing to others what one can't accept in oneself, both positive and negative. Positive feelings are projected onto a romantic relationship or an external authority figure in order to assure safety and justify loyalty. Negative feelings are projected onto others to justify internal feelings of fear and distrust. Sixes support their projections by finding and amplifying the information which fits their premise.


 I think everyone does this to some degree, so I definitely relate.



> 7) *Sevens* use *rationalization* to avoid suffering and to maintain a self image of being OK. Rationalization is a way of staying in the head, explaining away or justifying things in order to distance from painful feelings and refuse to take responsibility for their behavior. Everything can be re-framed towards the positive. Their ability to think of new options and possibilities allows Sevens to leave the present moment with its limitations and live in a seemingly unlimited future.


 Aha! Yes, definitely do this. I can reframe pretty much anything into a positive, and while I bet other types can do the same thing, it's almost a pathological urge with me. :laughing: On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with finding a way to turn a bad situation into an opportunity; without that ability, people would just get bogged down by setbacks and would be unable to capitalize on opportunities staring them right in the face. It's not even like I'm lying, it's more like I'm trying to see how I can turn things around and make a gain from it. So, rationalization as it's being described here is something I think is a great ability to have.

And yes, I'm well aware I JUST did it... I realized what was going on in the middle of the third sentence, but I just decided to play with it for a while. :wink:



> 8) *Eights* use *denial* to avoid vulnerability and to maintain a self image of being strong. Denial means to power up in the body center and forcefully re-direct energy and attention through willfulness and control. Vulnerable feelings are automatically put away and not experienced. Emotional energy is reduced, while instinctual energy is increased. Receptivity necessarily involves some vulnerability, so Eights seek to impact the world and other people rather than be receptive to them.


Yes, I also relate to this, especially the bit about putting away feelings of vulnerability. I do not like to feel vulnerable. EVER. I would sooner direct my energy in reasserting myself and placing myself back on top of my own world than spending time feeling inferior, weak, or passive. Such feelings seem dead and useless to me, although I cognitively understand that there is much to be gained from processing through them and understanding oneself. So, I don't like to delude myself, and I am working on accepting my own vulnerability. However, it is not easy.



> 9) *Nines* use *narcotization* to avoid conflict and to maintain a self image of being comfortable or harmonious. Narcotization is using food and drink, entertainment, or simply repetitive patterns of thinking and doing to "put oneself to sleep". Even productive activities can keep Nines narcotized if they become too habitual. Avoiding conflict with others keeps Nines from being fully present in relationships. Avoiding internal conflict leads to inertia and self-forgetting.


Yeah, I relate to this to some degree. However, repetitive activities make me feel bored and tired, which I don't like at all. I prefer to be operating at full power, no matter what I'm up to. I like activities that give me some kind of juice, otherwise, I get bored and move on to something more stimulating.

*1. What do you currently type as?*

ENTP 7w8 Sx/So

*2. Which of these defense mechanisms do you identify with (likely more than one)? If you are able to note an enduring pattern with one of these mostly unconscious a) defense mechanisms [and even b) idealization and c) avoidance patterns], comment on the same. *

I identify the most with rationalization, then identification, denial, projection, and narcotization in that order. I guess the pattern makes sense, given the fact that I'm a seven who happens to be three and 8w9 fixed.

*Put the enneagram aside for a bit. What role/image do you idealize? What do you avoid being? How do your defenses (including those not on the list) tie in with this? *

What do I idealize... that's a tough question to answer. I would say that I idealize being a catalyst moving under one's own power and on one's own terms. A dynamo with the ability to live as themselves, for their own reasons and answering only to themselves. In short, I idealize the ultimate individualist, a person who is truly free and limitless, unrestrained by nothing other than his own choices, desires, and goals.

I avoid being someone who is lifeless, joyless, and stagnant. I avoid allowing others to dictate what I should think or feel. I am accommodating as far as doing so doesn't harm or hinder me; once someone DOES try to harm or block my way forward, though, they might as well be a blade of grass for all the good it will do them trying to convince me otherwise.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> Interesting list!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am sooooooo definitely a 5w4 with 1 one from this!!! (the quoted defense mechanisms). Isolation + introjection + reaction formation


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## Paradox1987 (Oct 9, 2010)

@Boss,

Firstly, those are awesome posts .

I'm a 2, and the defence mechanisms I relate to most are:



> Twos use repression of personal needs and feelings to avoid being needy and to maintain a self image of being helpful. Repression is putting one's "unacceptable" feelings and impulses out of awareness by converting them into a more acceptable kind of emotional energy. Self-esteem depends on winning the approval of others. This can take the form of being *overly nice, flattering people, and a superficial friendliness. Or it can show up as an attitude of entitlement. Their genuine need for connection takes the form of "you need me."*





> Sevens use rationalization to avoid suffering and to maintain a self image of being OK. Rationalization is a way of staying in the head, _*explaining away or justifying things in order to distance from painful feelings and refuse to take responsibility for their behavior. Everything can be re-framed towards the positive. *_Their ability to think of new options and possibilities allows Sevens to leave the present moment with its limitations and live in a seemingly unlimited future.





> Nines use narcotization to avoid conflict and to maintain a self image of being comfortable or harmonious. Narcotization is using *food and drink, entertainment, or simply repetitive patterns of thinking and doing to "put oneself to sleep"*. Even productive activities can keep Nines narcotized if they become too habitual. Avoiding conflict with others keeps Nines from being fully present in relationships. Avoiding internal conflict leads to inertia and self-forgetting.





> Fours use introjection to avoid ordinariness and maintain a self image of being authentic. Positive introjection is an attempt to overcome the feeling of deficiency by seeking value from an idealized experience, work or relationship and internalizing this through the emotional center. This also leads to negative introjection: Fours tend *blame themselves for whatever goes wrong in personal relationships. Their experience of loss or abandonment can take form inside as a self-rejecting voice* (a negative introject) which leads to pervasive feelings of unworthiness.


However, usually, it will just be the "you need me card" that I'll wind up playing when I get defensive. 

In terms of what I avoid being are out of touch with my own feelings, but equally I don't want to be ruled by them. So I'll pander to my emotions for a bit, before I try and find the time to retreat into my head and try and analyse with a clear and calm head if I can. So after I've reminded myself that the person I'm in conflict with probably needs me, I will vanish into my head. The repression combines with the rationalisation so that any bad feelings can be explained away and hopefully put to rest. Though that can be a rocky road sometimes haha.


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## RepairmanMan Man (Jan 21, 2012)

I am a 641 ENTP. I'm so sure of this it's not funny. Here are my $.02.




> 1) Ones use reaction formation to avoid anger (i.e. direct anger) and stay in control of their feelings and instincts in order to maintain a self image of being right. Reaction formation is feeling one thing and then expressing the opposite or at least something unrelated, such as feeling resentful but acting nice, feeling a need to rest but working harder. The relentless demand of the inner critic to be good and do good at all times replaces personal needs and shuts down feelings.


I'm hella guilty of this, especially at work where I cannot easily tell someone off. Generally, when I'm angry but putting on the "nice" facade, people still sense that I'm really angry at them anyway, no matter how much I think I'm hiding it. It's something I hate about myself.

Other times, I've found myself becoming nicer and nicer as someone got ruder and ruder with me. I used to think this was some sort of cowardly-ass schtick that I couldn't stand up for myself, but seeing the 1-fix has helped me realized it's just a 1-ish coping mechanism. It's how I "civilize" the situation. I still hate it about myself, but what am I gonna do? Unless somebody wants to trade me an 8-fix. @aconite?




> 2) Twos use repression of personal needs and feelings to avoid being needy and to maintain a self image of being helpful. Repression is putting one's "unacceptable" feelings and impulses out of awareness by converting them into a more acceptable kind of emotional energy. Self-esteem depends on winning the approval of others. This can take the form of being overly nice, flattering people, and a superficial friendliness. Or it can show up as an attitude of entitlement. Their genuine need for connection takes the form of "you need me."


This is like the opposite of me.




> 3) Threes use identification to avoid failure and maintain a self image of being successful. Identification is stepping into a role so completely that Threes lose contact with who they are inside. The pressure to keep up a winning image prevents access to personal feelings and needs. Attention goes to the external environment: the tasks to be done and the expectations of other people. Threes find it very difficult to drop the role, or drop the image, since they get so much positive reinforcement in a society that values achievement and success.


I have no desire to put on a "winning" image; most of my life I've felt quite the opposite on a number of levels--just be genuine. I don't quite see how this one applies to me, although I do know how to focus on completing a task in such a way that I forget how I'm really feeling inside.




> 4) Fours use introjection to avoid ordinariness and maintain a self image of being authentic. Positive introjection is an attempt to overcome the feeling of deficiency by seeking value from an idealized experience, work or relationship and internalizing this through the emotional center. This also leads to negative introjection: Fours tend blame themselves for whatever goes wrong in personal relationships. Their experience of loss or abandonment can take form inside as a self-rejecting voice (a negative introject) which leads to pervasive feelings of unworthiness.


I was more guilty of this as a child--my peers rejected me, so I eventually began to think something was wrong with me. It took me a long time to realize that they were rather narrow, shallow, and quite possibly jealous of me. I privately felt superior. When my stepfather developed cancer, I basically took on the family tensions around this. I became convinced I would develop cancer myself as "punishment for hating him". I struggled with feelings of being evil and unlovable for many years after this (this might be more of a 1-ish defense). I'm ok now, though.

I never introjected the sense that my PARENTS rejected me, though, or that it's my fault--I blame them for whatever inadequacies they showed in my upbringing. I've had a similar sense in my relationships as an adult; if I'm abandoned, it's likely their shortcoming and no skin off mine. 






> 5) Fives use isolation to avoid the experience of inner emptiness and maintain a self image of being knowledgeable. Isolation can be physical withdrawal from others, but it also means withdrawing on the inside from one's emotions and staying up in the head. Acquiring knowledge becomes a way to create safety and self worth, but an over-emphasis on the intellect prevents Fives from connecting with the life force in their bodies and the support available in relationship with others.


I believe this is my dominant wing, and these patterns have been really prevalent. Even as a small child, I was extremely reluctant to reach out to others on a more vulnerable, emotional level. As an adult, I've never really seen others as being any form of support, more a hinderance to me and the way I want to live life.


I know I can cut myself off from my feelings in seconds flat; I was always "the smart one" and this was indeed my sense of safety and self-worth...and yes, I'm as unathletic as they come, because most of what I've built up is internal.






> 6) Sixes use projection to avoid rejection and to maintain a self image of being loyal. Projection is a way of attributing to others what one can't accept in oneself, both positive and negative. Positive feelings are projected onto a romantic relationship or an external authority figure in order to assure safety and justify loyalty. Negative feelings are projected onto others to justify internal feelings of fear and distrust. Sixes support their projections by finding and amplifying the information which fits their premise.


Yes and no. I don't really form objects of admiration along this premise. The people I admire tend to be people whose positive qualities I share (narcissistic though that may sound) or else I try to find those qualities in me. I try really hard NOT to project negative feelings on others--who am I to know what others are thinking? It's presumptuous. 


As a 12-year old, I had issues with my step-father similar to this. I suddenly became hostile and hateful towards him; in retrospect, this was the time my little sister was born, and frankly, *I* should have been the only thing in my parents lives. Because he had already stolen my mother from me, this subconsciously turned into hatred--and it's taken me 15+ years to figure this out. Perhaps I was projecting my insecurity on him? It's hardly the rabid-ass demogogue or the "catty mean girl" image I draw from most 6-descriptions, though.

Generally, I use my negative feelings to semi-consciously manipulate people. This is never really mentioned in 6-descriptions, but so much of my reactive emotional vomit is a form of control. I don't necessarily genuinely believe what I am saying, but because people resist my will when I impose it directly (I speak from experience), I have to appeal to them on a more emotive level. Sixes have got to be the biggest con-artists ever. 

Yeah, I think it's disgusting, too, but you gotta play to your strengths.




> 7) Sevens use rationalization to avoid suffering and to maintain a self image of being OK. Rationalization is a way of staying in the head, explaining away or justifying things in order to distance from painful feelings and refuse to take responsibility for their behavior. Everything can be re-framed towards the positive. Their ability to think of new options and possibilities allows Sevens to leave the present moment with its limitations and live in a seemingly unlimited future.


I used to think this was an incredibly retarded way to be, but I believe I was repressing this thought process from consciousness because it was so incompatible with my self-image and with others' feedback. But holy freaking shit! it's the other half of me.

When I developed a massive thyroid infection, for instance, I kept trying to tell myself it was a minor bladder infection and that all I needed was more antibiotics. This went on for a month, and I kept telling myself I'd wake up the next day feeling better. When I got bored with China, I up and left--leaving my coworkers to clean up the mess. When I go through hard times, I enter fantasy-land where everything I can't do today will be done at a better point in the future.

I do this a lot in a day-to-day sense, as well. I tend to swing from wild, over-the-top, ecstatic optimism to hard-headed pessimism and back. When I found out my true tritype, I'd go between "This is the best thing EVAR! I'm going to pwn this tritype!" and "OMG, this is the worst thing I've ever heard...I _suck_." When I've worked on the climate change issue, I moved between "We can save the world and build a better future!" and "We're all screwed!" It's part of the way I process, and might have to do more with being an ENTP than anything. 


I know that I have so many plans that it's not humanly possible to do them all--but as long as those plans are a possibility, they motivate me nonetheless. My dreams are so damn big, when I pursue something there's no possible way I can be stopped or defeated. I can totally lose touch with reality in this state--a fanatic to my own cause.

It's amazing that I never noticed how much I do this. 






> 8) Eights use denial to avoid vulnerability and to maintain a self image of being strong. Denial means to power up in the body center and forcefully re-direct energy and attention through willfulness and control. Vulnerable feelings are automatically put away and not experienced. Emotional energy is reduced, while instinctual energy is increased. Receptivity necessarily involves some vulnerability, so Eights seek to impact the world and other people rather than be receptive to them.


I'm not aware of doing this, but I know people have told me I need to show more vulnerability. My own mother even told me this. I'm not sure what she means, actually, and I think I'm rather receptive towards others.


I know I can deny pain and the need for help without even meaning to--it's simply a response. I repress it, and I go do what I have to do. I'm not good at crying on another person's shoulder, and I don't have much patience for those who act like this. I have always been incredibly willful, and can crush my softer emotions as a situation calls for. I tend to forget people more easily than any 6 should. That's about it for type 8.




> 9) Nines use narcotization to avoid conflict and to maintain a self image of being comfortable or harmonious. Narcotization is using food and drink, entertainment, or simply repetitive patterns of thinking and doing to "put oneself to sleep". Even productive activities can keep Nines narcotized if they become too habitual. Avoiding conflict with others keeps Nines from being fully present in relationships. Avoiding internal conflict leads to inertia and self-forgetting.


I don't have much patience for this.


I'm sure I use all 9 of these defense mechanisms (as well as others not part of enneagram theory) in ways I'm not fully conscious of, but those are my initial thoughts.


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## Narc_of_the_Covenant (Jul 29, 2013)

My attention has been on defense mechanisms lately and the ideal/shadow self, what we avoid. 

What has grabbed my attention more (and I noticed in this thread) is how we have the ability to use more than our primary defense mechanism associated with our core. So it had me thinking:

DO we pick up and utilize the defense mechanisms of our security and stress points?
I think so.
For example:
@_Cosmic Orgasm_, does this make sense to you?

Type 1, reaction formation.
Under stress, they can utilize Introjection (4) and introject the imperfection they see in world, which then is criticized and self-criticized (taking blame/responsibility for the imperfection in themselves or others) and thus causing them to act on it - to correct the problem. That the world isn't perfect enough, because I'm not perfect enough. Need to do better.

In security/comfort, they can utilize Rationalization (7), and when in conflict they will rationalize/justify their righteousness while on their high horse. Also, I think this may also play into the trap door 1 who rationalizes their escape/closet life of freedom/excess/badness.
I think the 2 wing will use Repression more to stomp down unconscious desires/righteous anger in favor of action to perfect their world, while the 9 wing will use Narcotization to fall asleep to those desires/anger in favor of forming more detached intellectual perfect philosophies of how life should be, as opposed taking action on them.

I believe this can be seen in all types… how a core 6, under security, uses Narcotization as a defense to acting on fears, as a defense to handling too many pressures in life. Also, Narcing themselves out to what they really be loyal and committed to - finding the most essential and paramount issue instead of waffling in ambivalence.

A core 6 uses Identification (3), when under stress they will strongly identify with whatever they believe in/has their support/commitment, even if it is paranoid or a projection. Also identifying with survivor image.

You can also see how a core 7 uses Reaction Formation (1) under stress, when negative or painful feelings pop up, they flip the script and act opposite, optimistic and happy.
I can also see how 7 uses Isolation when secure to isolate negative feelings, detach from them and then withdrawn from the situation in pursuit of something less boring, less empty, painful. The 5 uses it to seek out knowledge for value in mastering, the 7 for pleasurable pursuit to stay up...


I'm trying to figure out how core 4 utilizes Reaction Formation while secure, kind of stuck on that one.

I am also curious on how our core type interacts with our stress point's stress point and vice versa.
For example, a core 8 (Denial) under stress will use Isolation (5) to remove themselves from the equation while they redetermine knowledge of others' weaknesses and regain internal strength. 
If the core 8 under a lot of stress is pushed to the brink, they will take on characteristics of (7) Rationalization, seeing that their anger and revenge is completely and undeniably justified, and nothing will stop the beast from destroying all. It is the opposite of 7: instead of consuming all of life's goodness and excess, the 8 being so betrayed and vengeful will destroy all of it, on a warpath.

On the other side of the coin, 
Core 8 using Repression (2) to repress vulnerabilities can eventually encounter 4 introjection. This would be a stage of growth for an 8, and they begin to no longer repress weakness, but take on weakness of others, be empathetic and admit their own faults while being magnanimous as they are, no longer power hungry. I've read this is attributable to the 8 integrating to 2, but since 2 inherently takes on qualities of 4 - I think it goes further.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Narc_of_the_Covenant

I no longer put much stock on the primary defense mechanism theory. It's quite possible to not only use mechanisms other than one allotted to your type (and some authors allot more than one to each type), it's also quite possible to use one defense mechanism more than the other depending on your life circumstances.

A couple of 6s, for instance, said on the thread that projection wasn't their primary defense mechanism or they equally rated two or more.

As for the rest, your musings make sense to me except the part about the stress point's stress point. You're stretching it to breaking point and snap it did.  So, it strikes me as baseless. I don't see 8 as having the connection you proposed with 7. Besides, 8 doesn't need to go to 7 to deem their actions 'justified'. They are, by default, at war with life in a sense (have an oppositional relationship with the environment).


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

*Reaction Formation*:

I have found that the mechanism is more complex than simply an "it's opposite day" heyday. It is a deeply-embedded means of structuring the One's idealistic, idealistic standards, as well as their compulsive bent, in those who are compulsive.

On a more micro level, reaction formation is to shove one thing in place of another that is seen as unacceptable, thereby burying (but *not *getting rid of) the unacceptable part from consciousness. The unacceptable entity is forgotten and denied, but remains part of you, and the compulsion is to stamp it back down when it surfaces. It has undertones of Freud's Anal stage, in which the child learned to hold their waste inside to receive praise for relieving at the "right" time. The general mechanism is to deny one's own shifting experience by imposing one's will (this is why 1 is Gut/Will) into what is idealized, thereby surrendering the self to "principle." I do not believe 1's want to avoid being ethically "bad" - they more defend themselves against the reality of being soiled, which is idealistically possible (given reaction formation), but humanly impossible. 

This is why 1's grow by becoming more "loose." They learn that their compulsions are deluded, and trying to overcompensate for what has no real reason to be desired to be reformed. The reaction formation creates a false reality - the One firmly believes that something is true, but does not see their conviction as a defense against something else, but rather as forcible "truth." 

It's a bit like trying to bleach out an ink stain on an expensive white shirt and failing repeatedly. You worry that someone (your Superego) will notice it and criticize you, so you stamp it out, but always know the blot is there, even if it has become "whitened" and others cannot easily see it.


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

I think it could be interesting to think about moving two steps along the lines the way you were doing, but I honestly think when a type becomes a part of one's core {I'm not one to restrict this to a single one, though some fair reasons suggest themselves as to why a single one will in suitable sense ultimately be a focus}, it's hard enough to shift around the single lines. Part of the whole idea is that we develop imbalances that render us somewhat stuck, and to see if these imbalances stem from a detectable philosophical falsehood and see how it can be worked with.

For the 6's line to 3, I'd go back to the idea of what the so-called disintegrating line movement means, e.g. the 2's pride being describable as a repressed envy.
I tend to see 3 not as merely the extreme version (basically plastic, identifying only with what one presents), but also a type that can occur in the less off-the-deep-end individual -- the main point is that unlike 2, say, there is no naive falling in love with oneself, there is rather a drive to "objectively prove" the image of identification; now what's the ultimate point here -- to me, it's that every type intrinsically exploits a murky point in the art/science of supporting and justifying the self's {let's say here "self" is used loosely, not as the "whole" self enneagram speaks of, but rather the working self-concept} existence in order to sustain itself. This is why it's possible even for people we admire to fall into this "plastic" of type 3. The plastic really at the core to me is simply that there's a murky line between _oneself_ and one's doings -- thus, one can essentially (unconsciously, generally) wind up with a figure somewhere between oneself, and one's doings, which is entirely identified with these "achievements" (this last part is obvious, but the main thing I want to convey is what I see as the philosophy).
Naturally, this is typically going to occur with doings that feed the vanity in some shape, but vanity can take on subtler and subtler forms. 
If one thinks about it, this is _exactly_ the next step from 6, much as 2 is the next step from 4. The cowardly character, fearful of action falling into a sort of 3 psychology to sustain themselves after potential blows to their natural pattern of defense (I speak more generally, _not_ necessarily of "projection"), or even in anticipation of such blows. The fear to act stems from dissociation from the complete self, and the natural step forward is identification with the 'self' whose doings are worthy (essentially in the eyes of vanity).


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## Narc_of_the_Covenant (Jul 29, 2013)

@Cosmic Orgasm

:laughing: Sometimes I like to engage in wishful thinking, on the merit that…if it works for the 9, maybe it works for me too! I can't help but entertain myself with the potential for hidden lines between types and seeing patterns.

In any case what you're saying sounds more like DM is not as associated to type as much as we think, likewise how MBTI doesn't necessarily correlate to any particular types. I'm sure there are plenty of 6s who DO use Projection, but as you say there are others who may not.

Perhaps what is more ingrained in us is the identification of our ideal self image and the avoidance of ___. And our psyche will take whatever means necessary (perhaps multiple defenses) to achieve that need.

I know I definitely use Narcotization in my life. And I'm pretty sure I project quite a bit too. A 2 who uses Repression probably also uses Projection in tandem: "I don't have needs, you have needs"
@Figure
That makes sense about 1. I'm curious how other types utilize Reaction Formation. For example, a 3 who has feelings of failure come up attempts to wash it out so no one will notice, reacting against it with competency and efficiency to prove their self-image of a winner. 
@bearotter
It would make sense that we all have a 3 in us: we are all Identified with a particular ideal self-image. And the further we buy into it, the more we are no longer authentic to our true selves, we become hypocritical to our self-promoted image, and thus plastic or not who we really are.

Perhaps we all use certain defense mechanisms at particular levels of health. Perhaps at the higher levels of health, the defense is little because there isn't much threat to our self-image. Our self image is easily proven and we live up to it. But the more unhealthy we get, I think we start adding on new defense mechanisms, different cocktails to make it work. 

Considering the enneagram is amazing to seeing underlying patterns in our life, I really wonder if there are patterns to how we use the defense mechanisms. Or - is it all just circumstantial.


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## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

I'd say we all identify with a false self-concept, that's for sure, if we even fit into the enneagram's types. The 3's self-concept is distinct from the rest of the 8 types. But anyway it is true 3 is a pretty central type to understand (and it does tend to be described as expressly linked to false identification) if one does things based on the inner triangle. I see no reason to avoid that, it's just a reference point, and alternate organizational paradigms should if anything yield something compatible.

One could also say we all have 9 in some sense at the heart, for another instance - common claim made, of course can be true only if properly interpreted.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Narc_of_the_Covenant said:


> @_Figure_
> That makes sense about 1. I'm curious how other types utilize Reaction Formation. For example, a 3 who has feelings of failure come up attempts to wash it out so no one will notice, reacting against it with competency and efficiency to prove their self-image of a winner.


A very good question, but one that also deconstructs the enneagram as a fundamental system, into components that have long been discussed in clinical/research psychology. Maitri/Naranjo enneagram says 1's use RF as their primary defense mechanism (Ichazo actually identified it differently, as "isolation"), psychology labels it more as a non-categorized, universal mechanism, certainly not part of one specific "type."

So systemically, I'm not sure why a 3 would employ it and how, partially because I don't know great detail on type 3, and partially because I can't understand how it would be an effective compensation or defense against their fears. It doesn't seem to be that type 3 feels themselves a failure and compensates for that - more that they simply become human doings to avoid that feeling in the first place. Given that at least for 1 RF is dictated through the punishing Superego and 3 is an Id type, it seems difficult to compute what it would look like - an Id reaction formation is a very interesting (if seemingly contradictory) consideration. 

I can only think of RF as compensating for the belief that one is flawed, and we'd probably need to know if/how/when 3's view themselves that way to know.


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## CelineDijon (Jul 5, 2016)

I'm a four but I act like the 8 description when stressed. I go straight to indulgence and denial. I rely on base instincts. I am even very controlling of others to make things my way.


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