# Future Course of Action?



## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

I apologize in advance for re-treading a topic I’ve discussed before, but these thoughts have been plaguing me more recently, and writing my thoughts seems to help a bit.

I’m being currently pushed to see my family members. So in about a month or so, I’ll be flying (probably at my own expense) to see a few of them, my father being among them. I’ve already went into detail multiple times about the relationship between me and my father, but to summarize it, let’s just say it’s _complicated_.

When I was younger, he was incredibly volatile and had a hair trigger. He was also never around, never told me where he was going, and his impulsiveness has brought my family danger multiple times from gangs and other groups. Just thinking of the stress he put my mother through *infuriates* me. He also made our family move frequently due to his “job opportunities”, so I never kept a friend for more than a couple of years.

When I was older, he became incredibly manipulative. When I won one of the top scholarships in the country, the first thing he did after congratulating me was to ask for the money (which was around $2,200). Figuring he got himself in trouble with loan sharks again, I decided to give him the money just to fulfill my duty as a son.

When I got angry with him for not paying me back anything 2-3 whole years after the event (and him pulling every excuse in the book to why he couldn’t pay me, even using my grandfathers death as an excuse), he called me an “asshole”, and to put it bluntly we had a huge fight. I was living on my own and was struggling to have enough for college, and to pay groceries, so any sort of help would have been appreciated. But after hearing for all of those years that my Dad was always looking out for me, I discovered it was all talk. Just another tool he used to keep me in line.

During the whole dispute, I felt like I was on my own. Despite my mother and younger brother having issues with the man, they didn’t take my side and left me to deal with it alone. The family on Dad’s side also never heard my side of the story, and would frequently tell me that I was “putting the man down”, and it was “my fault” that he was depressed. I never felt so isolated than I did during that time, but unlike with my father, it seemed like nobody really cared about it. Despite those factors, I didn’t back down. In summary, haven’t seen the man’s face since. At least, until I go down to see him.

Lately, he’s been pushing really hard that I’m part of this “big, happy family” that he has created. He has been recently engaged to another woman (the first time he’s done so since I was little), who is in his defence, incredibly sweet (but from what I’ve noticed, submissive). The woman’s daughter also recently had her first baby, and my Dad immediately took the opportunity to call me the “Uncle” to the kid. But for some reason, while everyone else is happier than ever and willing to accept this new “reality” my Dad created, I’m not. In fact, I don’t want anything to do with it.

Everyone else has seemed to move on but me. I just can’t find it in my heart to forgive the man.
After all he’s put my family through, I feel like he doesn’t deserve the happy ending where everyone just ignores everything that happened. I feel like this is just what he wants, and then gets to get away with everything again. As such, I don’t associate with him anymore. If he sends me texts, I usually ignore them. When he suddenly pretends to act fatherly, I disregard it and brush it off.

But I’m worried if I’m just wrong. Maybe he has truly changed and I’m the only one going crazy here. But on the other hand, I’m just through with him winning. I’m done being a pawn. But I’m wondering if you guys have any solutions that I’ve failed to see?


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## Eugenia Shepherd (Nov 10, 2017)

I don't know where to start--I'm sorry your family is forcing you through this ridiculousness.
You don't owe your father (or anyone else, for that matter) _anything_ except perhaps a basic, respectful distance.
IMO, if you're a legal adult (barring responsibility for any dependents) you are free from obliging to others' wishes, family or no.
Especially, if they've already exhibited a history of continued psychological toxicity or irresponsibility such as gaslighting
(i.e. manipulating you into questioning your own sanity), "blaming the victim", or anything else.

My own father (while not as openly aggressive about it) was also very neglectful of my mother & brother,
and frequently played the counterfeit, "I-love-you-you-love-me" Barney the Dinosaur card. I still talk to him on occasion,
but I feel no regret in distancing myself from what I see as destructive & somewhat pandering behavior--why? There's no good reason for it.
I don't have to accept (much of) his presence in my life, unless there's a proper emergency.
...My mother's counselor advised her, to always seek the truth. Do the words and sentiments match the actions, decisions, and reality of the person talked about?
If not, there is a hollowness/artificiality there that requires consideration.

You can forgive someone, without letting them manipulate you into their orbit, if you feel it's a healthy and appropriate decision to make. 
You can let go of the bitterness, and wish them the best, while also creating boundaries for your own emotional wellbeing.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

Eugenia Shepherd said:


> I don't know where to start--I'm sorry your family is forcing you through this ridiculousness.
> You don't owe your father (or anyone else, for that matter) _anything_ except perhaps a basic, respectful distance.
> IMO, if you're a legal adult (barring responsibility for any dependents) you are free from obliging to others' wishes, family or no.
> Especially, if they've already exhibited a history of continued psychological toxicity or irresponsibility such as gaslighting
> ...


Yeah, honestly I think he can do whatever he wants with his life. I just want him to leave me out of it. Everytime I get dragged into it, it seems like I'm the only paying for it.
But you are right, I'm turning 23 this February, and I've been living on my own since I was 20. I don't need to answer to anyone. 
Unfortunately, I do have family members down there that weren't involved in that mess (like my Grandmother).
I do need to go down there and visit eventually, as she isn't getting any younger. 

I actually went to a counsellor after a couple of months of trying to fight through it myself, she said the same thing your mother's counsellor did. 
I ended up leaving after a couple of sessions though. But one of the things she advised I do is to cut ties with him.
But for whatever reason, I didn't. Maybe I wasn't strong enough? I don't know for sure. 

I just feel a lot of resentment. I managed to work and attend university at the same time, be one of the top students, and earn enough to make my own ends meet. All on my own. 
Along the way, I didn't need to manipulate people, or to be a leech off someone else. I lost most of my friends along the way, but I still made it to where I am today based on my own perseverance.
Meanwhile, my own father needs to control others in order to find satisfaction with himself. He did that with my mother, with me, and probably with countless others. It makes me angry.
I know this resentment isn't going to get me anywhere, but I have a hard time letting go of it. 

I think you are right though. I think the best way is to let go of the bitterness, to create boundaries, and to maybe maintain a respectful distance.
But another part of me wants him to hurt at the same time, and then I'm back to being vengeful towards him again. 
I find that the cycle is hard to break. In any case though, I appreciate your advice.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I NEVER loan family money. I just give money as a gift or else I don't give it. So I never have to worry if family will pay back a loan.

Did your father use drugs when you were a child? It's possible that drugs or mental health problems could have affected the way he acted--and if he has quit (or started) or gotten treatment, then he may be different now.

But other than that, I don't usually assume people will change. I think it's fine if you still hold onto reservations about him. Maybe in time you will forgive him or maybe you won't. Either way is fine.

I find I sometimes end up forgiving and understanding family better as I face my own challenges in my life. But I think it's also easy for people to understand and accept that I may have had issues with their behavior because most family also understand they aren't perfect and have done things that people could hold against them.

My stepmother literally beat her own mother to death a couple years ago and now she's invited to family events that I'm just supposed to treat her like a family member again. So I try to be polite, but it doesn't mean I really trust her as a person or anything. I just do it for the sake of idk...getting along with my family. I don't cause a problem with her but I'm not going to try to force myself to like, trust, or even forgive her. It's just for the sake of getting along when everyone is together. I won't ride in a car alone with her or anything, or give her money etc.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I apologize in advance for re-treading a topic I’ve discussed before, but these thoughts have been plaguing me more recently, and writing my thoughts seems to help a bit.


Why not? I find most people here on PerC are going to listen to you and even be sympathetic.

I'm not sure what to say, so I'll try this. I like to think generally, not knowing either you or your father except second hand.

You said you are 22-23. Good. That means you are just starting out in adulthood. Adulthood usually means standing out on your own. Prior to that is the adolescent separation experience, yet we are never completely separate. Our family is our beginning life experience and it belongs to us, not anyone else ... except when we find people with similar experiences. 

Comments on what you said.


ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I’m being currently pushed to see my family members.


That's family for ya. It's a chance to see how you relate now. You are separate but going to say hello again.




ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> When I was younger, he was incredibly volatile and had a hair trigger.


That was him and however he is now, you could think of him as a separate person. I long had not so good feelings for my father. He never was my friend. But today I can look at his personality and his life and see that was natural. If I met him today, not as a father/ son, but as a new person, it would be like meeting a stranger, getting to know, as far as getting along because now I'm a separate person.




ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> my Dad immediately took the opportunity to call me the “Uncle” to the kid.


This is a good example. Your dad wants you to be an uncle. If you don't want to be any uncle, just be what you yourself want. Maybe uncle is a good idea, maybe not.




ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> But I’m worried if I’m just wrong. Maybe he has truly changed and I’m the only one going crazy here. But on the other hand, I’m just through with him winning. I’m done being a pawn. But I’m wondering if you guys have any solutions that I’ve failed to see?


This just went through my head so I don't know if it's crazy. You could say to him, just to lighten up, "Remember that money you once borrowed from me? Guess what? You can keep it. It's okay." You might learn something from his reaction.




ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I just feel a lot of resentment. ...
> I didn't need to manipulate people, or to be a leech off someone else. ...
> Meanwhile, my own father needs to control others in order to find satisfaction with himself. He did that with my mother, with me, and probably with countless others. It makes me angry.
> I know this resentment isn't going to get me anywhere, but I have a hard time letting go of it.
> ...


These two paragraphs say to me you are not emotionally separate yet. Those are past experiences. How do they affect you today so you can be partially independent of them? What about good experiences? How have the bad ones make you stronger today?

My sister recently did something that made me mad. I didn't want to show it because I wasn't sure why I was so mad. I thought over what she was like until I got a feel for how she was. I looked at myself and realized I was asking for too much. Interesting, no?


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## littlewyng (Sep 17, 2020)

BigApplePi said:


> This just went through my head so I don't know if it's crazy. You could say to him, just to lighten up, "Remember that money you once borrowed from me? Guess what? You can keep it. It's okay." You might learn something from his reaction.


This is really good advice- I was thinking the same thing but on the negative side, he may be trying to involve you with things happening now, but- he never did pay back that amount, did he? When he knew it upset you that he didn't?


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> Did your father use drugs when you were a child? It's possible that drugs or mental health problems could have affected the way he acted--and if he has quit (or started) or gotten treatment, then he may be different now.


No, my father has always made it a point of his to stay completely sober. He liked to have a clear mind at all times.
I've known drug addicts, and my Dad has never gave that "vibe".
I know he didn't have the best childhood growing up either, he has given me the lecture multiple times about how he's had it worse (and he probably has).
Maybe that's played a factor in his decision making? No, I'm certain it has. But I don't think that's necessarily an excuse.



WickerDeer said:


> My stepmother literally beat her own mother to death a couple years ago and now she's invited to family events that I'm just supposed to treat her like a family member again. So I try to be polite, but it doesn't mean I really trust her as a person or anything. I just do it for the sake of idk...getting along with my family. I don't cause a problem with her but I'm not going to try to force myself to like, trust, or even forgive her. It's just for the sake of getting along when everyone is together. I won't ride in a car alone with her or anything, or give her money etc.


Jesus. I'm sorry to hear that.
I don't know how you do it though. Unless the stepmother has pleaded for forgiveness, (and even then, I don't know) I probably wouldn't go either way.
I think you are a more mature person than I am, to be honest.



BigApplePi said:


> This just went through my head so I don't know if it's crazy. You could say to him, just to lighten up, "Remember that money you once borrowed from me? Guess what? You can keep it. It's okay." You might learn something from his reaction.


I actually tried that believe it or not. His response was the usual, he was going to pay me back and that I would have to be more patient.
Sometimes, he would add in that I was being "selfish" and "unreasonable". If he wanted to put some extra spice into it, he would even tell me "he raised me better". 
To be blunt, I didn't believe him. Especially since this wasn't the first time he has loaned money from family members, and never paid them back.
Most of my family members cut off contact from him because of it, so I grew up relatively isolated from other members of my family. So I didn't have that knowledge.
Unfortunately, he is my father. So cutting off contact from him is especially complicated, considering that a few of my younger siblings are still close to him.



littlewyng said:


> This is really good advice- I was thinking the same thing but on the negative side, he may be trying to involve you with things happening now, but- he never did pay back that amount, did he? When he knew it upset you that he didn't?


Up until recently he hasn't. He did pay me around half of it back in March (probably just due to CERB payments), so I'm grateful for that at least. Every little bit helps.
But until that point, the only time he paid me since 2016 (the year he took the scholarship money) was $100 back in October of 2019. Three years after the fact.
The only reason he did it was because I didn't say "_Happy Birthday_" to him on his birthday, so he gave me $100 bucks (he was apparently *just* getting the money for me at the time) to paint himself as the victim.
He then essentially lectured me about how bad of a son I was to hammer down the point further. I told him to "shove it" in response.
I don't think he was ever too concerned with how I felt.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

(I may have said similar things in response to a previous post.) I don't think you need to have your father in your life. Not saying to hate him or hurt him -- but he isn't good for you. It has caused you so much pain, inconvenience, and even helpless rage. Who needs that? 

Breaking ties with a parent is difficult, and it takes time. I've done it. And my father was nowhere near as bad as yours. I'm in my 60s, probably your grandmother's age, so maybe I have some insights. 

I wasn't the best of mothers either, and my daughter and I are more or less estranged. But I would never think of taking advantage of her, or guilting her into being a good daughter.

Too bad your family members don't support your point of view. Some people are very vested in "family," and will turn a blind eye. For whatever reason, you aren't like them, and that's okay. 

You have the right to choose. Yes, I think you should cut ties with him, but it doesn't matter what I think. You have the right to do what's best for you.

Maybe he has indeed matured or mellowed. But you still don't need to be his son, or his friend, or anything else. He was not a father to you. He just abused the title of father.

If you want to visit your grandmother, go some other time -- not when all this "big happy family" stuff is happening. You can see family members when he isn't around.

Try not to argue with other family members about this. If the topic arises, change the subject if possible. I'm so sorry that they're saying things like "It's your fault." It most certainly isn't. This is what's tearing you apart now. Their opinion, and your feeling so alone.

10, 20, or 30 years from now, your father might be dead, and the others will have moved on with their lives. You can ask yourself which you will regret more: failing to give him another chance, or giving him another chance and getting kicked in the head again. 

I don't know the man, and I'm not a mindreader, but I don't believe he cares. Why should you care? (If he cared about you, or about your relationship, he'd give you the scholarship money back. He'd also own up and make up for a few other things.)

The fact that he does feel-good things like getting a little kid to call you uncle, that's just a cheap substitute for what family is supposed to be about (e.g., responsibility and caring).

As for the scholarship money, maybe it's best forgotten, but I sure wouldn't tell him he doesn't need to give it back. That's just telling him you want more of the same bad treatment.

I hate to think of all you've been through and are still going through. I hope you'll be able to make sense of it all and do what's right for you, whatever that is.

This is long, and a jumble of thoughts, sorry. I just feel so upset about you buying into all the guilt crap, when you've done everything you can to be a good son, and gotten no appreciation for it.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> No, my father has always made it a point of his to stay completely sober. He liked to have a clear mind at all times.
> I've known drug addicts, and my Dad has never gave that "vibe".
> I know he didn't have the best childhood growing up either, he has given me the lecture multiple times about how he's had it worse (and he probably has).
> Maybe that's played a factor in his decision making? No, I'm certain it has. But I don't think that's necessarily an excuse.


That's good in a way that he's never been an addict, but I am not sure how much he's really going to change then. It sounds like his behavior was just from his personality.

He probably did have it worse than you (my dad did, for sure) but it doesn't mean you have to agree with his behavior. And you definitely do need to explore and assert boundaries.




> Jesus. I'm sorry to hear that.
> I don't know how you do it though. Unless the stepmother has pleaded for forgiveness, (and even then, I don't know) I probably wouldn't go either way.
> I think you are a more mature person than I am, to be honest.


Thanks--it was a lot harder for my sister since she lost her grandma and then her mom went to jail. I just don't want to ruffle feathers. I don't have to like her and I don't agonize over not liking her. I treat her like a stranger and I won't feel guilty (though sometimes I do). I try to be polite. If it bothers her--it's not my problem.

tmi, but if you want to see some f*cked up childhood memories:

* *





I remember when she called the cops on my dad when I was a kid and they took him away, and I had to walk to the gas station by myself. She was screaming at me down the street--screaming "you're just a little chicken!" and screaming "it's all your fault!" She claimed it was my fault because she said my dad hit her when she started insulting me to him, and she said it was my fault for running and hiding, because he wouldn't have hit her if I hadn't hid.

I remember her screaming in my face "you think your dad's so perfect?! He hit a woman!" and then the cops came and took him away and left me with her. My poor little sister was just a baby, but my dad somehow called my grandma and she came to pick me up at the gas station down the street. 




So anyway--thanks. I really don't forgive her for that, but I felt slightly vindicated when she beat her own mom to death because if my dad did hit her once (I don't know if he did or not...) I know he wasn't a physically violent person and she was. It's hard to come to grips with the past.

It's sad--families can be messed up and messed up things happen. You have to decide for yourself what you can handle. My dad's been a huge support to me since he wasn't with that woman anymore (so she's really like my ex-step-mom, but that's how our family is--family always forgives.) I don't necessarily forgive everyone, but I just let them be and focus on spending time with the family I do love and trust, like my sister and my dad and uncle...and some cousins.

My dad used to say that I "see through people" but really I just keep to myself. Our family is forgiving of that as well as a lot of things. I just miss my grandma most of all though, but she's passed away.

I do wish that step-mother wasn't really there, but she has no one else since she killed her own mom (oh gosh I'm such a bitch in writing but I'd never say that to her face). So I just let her be and focus on the ones I feel close to. If she started drama, I'm not sure how I'd react--but now that I'm an adult I'm not sure she'd try it.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

@islandlight. Thanks for that. I mean it.
I just know that when I have a kid, It's going to be different.
I'm aware that my father has always been charismatic, people are naturally drawn to him. So that just makes me more cautious of his behaviour. 
But you described my thoughts entirely. I don't hold any ill will to the kid, but I'm not his "uncle". That's a cheap substitute, and I'm not playing into it. 
I don't expect appreciation or anything like that, I just want to make sure I'm doing the right the thing.

@WickerDeer, I don't really have a good response to all of that. But I'm sorry you had to go through that.
But you're right about family, it's up to the individual on how much they are willing to take.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> @WickerDeer, I don't really have a good response to all of that. But I'm sorry you had to go through that.
> But you're right about family, it's up to the individual on how much they are willing to take.


Thanks. Yeah, it's in the past. 
But I don't really care about the step-mother so it doesn't bother me--it would be a lot harder if it was a relationship that pulled on my heart strings more. I care about her in a very distant way--but she doesn't affect me.

I can't tell you to ignore your dad like I ignore her, because she's not going to have the same weight on my emotions as your dad probably does to you. 

I also get the sense that your dad's pretty manipulative. But he also sounds like he's terrible with money and you had to be more in the position of the adult to him, which can cause a lot of resentment. Sometimes these things take time, but I don't believe in pushing yourself to forgive someone if you don't feel like it. You have to be true to yourself. And most of all you have to respect your own boundaries.

If your family is anything like mine, your family may have been through worse together (like your dad said his childhood was worse)--that's cool and they might just accept each other as they are and with their flaws (I mean, the ones who haven't cut him out of their lives).

But it's okay for you to have hangups about your dad, about how you wished he might have been and about how he failed, and how you would do things differently. You owe it to yourself to take your feelings seriously and have firm boundaries. Your family will probably understand that as well (the ones who haven't cut contact with you b/c of your dad?) if they can accept your dad they will also accept who you are too, and your choices not to be around him.


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## secondpassing (Jan 13, 2018)

WickerDeer said:


> It's sad--families can be messed up and messed up things happen. You have to decide for yourself what you can handle. My dad's been a huge support to me since he wasn't with that woman anymore (so she's really like my ex-step-mom, but that's how our family is--family always forgives.) I don't necessarily forgive everyone, but I just let them be and focus on spending time with the family I do love and trust, like my sister and my dad and uncle...and some cousins.


This part of @WickerDeer's post I liked particularly.
---
Whether or not you owe your father anything is a moral issue that I've already commented on in a similar thread, but here I will caution against adopting the attitude that comes with, "You don't owe anyone anything." Doing things solely with one's own perspective will come with its own set of consequences that will affect your relationship with the rest of your family. 

If I read you right, the issue presented in your opening post seems to be more about whether or not you should travel to visit your family (however you are defining "family"). Thus, I urge you to consider how deciding not to visit them will affect your individual relationship with each of them. It seems that you neither hate your father's fiancee, the fiancee's daughter, nor your fiancee's daughter's child. If you believe you are tied to them in some way and you value any of those relationships, you should weigh the cost of going to see them. Will it be unbearable for you? Are they worth it? If you choose to delay visiting them until you are sure you will only visit them separate from your father, how will that affect them? 

You will likely have a better idea of what to expect should you decide to go if you open, or attempt to open communication between you and said family-members-to-be. Perhaps you already know what they are like. If that is the case, then all there left to consider is that cost-benefit analysis— the cost to you and the benefit to them.

I think you'll make a good decision. You're smart.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I don't think he was ever too concerned with how I felt.


My father told the story of how one of his patients borrowed ten dollars. The next day he paid him right back. Later he borrowed $100. He skipped town never to be heard from again. It was a con.

What is your dad's personality type?


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

@secondpassing, you do have a good point.
In regards to visiting my family, I’m probably still going to end up going for the reasons you’ve listed above.
I don’t have much of a grudge against my other family members, so it wouldn’t be fair to ignore them.
In terms of the relationship with my father, I’m going to approach it from the perspective that I don’t owe him anything.

@BigApplePi, I have a very hard time typing my father.
But from what I can pin down, I’m guessing he is an ESTP.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I have a very hard time typing my father.
> But from what I can pin down, I’m guessing he is an ESTP.


I do too. I looked at my notes and it says ESTP = Se Ti Fe Ni, promoter, doer, entrepreneur. Now INTJ = Ni Te Fi Se. My understanding is INTJs (you) like to get things done (via Te) but aside from that, I don't see much in common functionally. This means assuming we have faith in the MBTI, a natural distance is going to be the thing.


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## 545769 (Apr 3, 2019)

I don’t have a lot of advice, but I am sorry to hear you are going through this. ❤ It doesn’t sound like an easy decision!


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

Another thought: The scapegoat phenomenon. I've seen it in families, including my own. Often, the scapegoat is successful and helps other family members, but is called useless and selfish. The following is one short article; there's lots more info on the Internet.









The Strength of the Scapegoat in the Narcissist Family


The Strength of the Scapegoat in the Narcissist Family




www.huffpost.com


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> But I’m worried if I’m just wrong. Maybe he has truly changed and I’m the only one going crazy here. But on the other hand, I’m just through with him winning. I’m done being a pawn. But I’m wondering if you guys have any solutions that I’ve failed to see?


You got it right, I reckon. I wouldn't let him sweep the past under the rug, I would stand up for myself in that instance. One probably won't forget their major betrayals in life, so what you feel is right.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I'm going to chime in again--but to me he just sounds emotionally manipulative and possibly a bit of a con artist--and the reality is that is family. You don't have to put up with it. But he sounds to me like someone who's better at talking and doesn't follow through with doing.

The fact that he only paid back 100$ when you didn't say happy b-day also suggests to me he knows, on some level, that it affects you emotionally, and he cares about that enough to sort of try to guilt you out of it and reason with you to get you to not be upset...but he doesn't have the capacity to follow through on his words.

I mean, I don't know him, but there are people that simply do not deserve your trust--not because they are trying to break it, but because part of who they are, they can't handle that responsibility.

It happens that children can become very resentful of parents that put the child in the place of having to be more responsible than the adult. I know because I'm resentful of some of my mother's shortcomings that make me feel more mature than her.

But for families who've been through a lot--sometimes forgiveness and family is all they really have, and so I agree that you shouldn't cut ties with your other family members as you are probably really important to them, and honestly they will probably accept your having an issue with your dad because they've probably grown up navigating family conflict. I'm just thinking that for some of them, like your grandma--you are really important and that's the thing I'd focus on more.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

@Sweet but Psycho Thanks for the support. It really isn't an easy decision (or at least, as easy as it should be), but I'll find my way through it.
@Celtsincloset I hope you are right, because I don't want to be the one who lets him get away again.

@islandlight, I actually never looked at it that way. But now things are making a lot of sense.
For some reason, my father has always praised certain qualities of mine, but I always felt a tinge of envy (?) from him. I don't know, but it always felt _off_ for some reason.
I never really found myself that impressive in any of those factors, but he would always hype me up.

For example, I'm the only one in my Dad's family that passed high school with more than the bare minimum.
I passed with academic honors, was the first one to attend University, and won some of the top scholarships in the country. While my Dad had to get his mother to beg the principal to let him pass high school.
My Dad is also not the healthiest person on the planet, neither is my brother. I'm not the embodiment of fitness, but I stayed in gym until graduation, and I practice martial arts to stay relatively healthy. 
I also dislike spending too much money at once. My father and brother both have trouble with money, and being in debt is usually a common occurrence for them.

I'm starting to think he might have seen me as someone who might be a threat. Which is fine, people can feel how they want to feel.
I don't think I'm that exceptionally in any of the qualities listed, but I think these are differences that might have made me stand out as a target to him.

For example, the day before I graduated High School, my father privately sat me down at a restaurant. He sent the second oldest away to the hotel he was staying at.
That's when he revealed a good portion of his (hopefully) formal "extra curricular activities". He said the main reason he did those things was simply for the thrill of it.
But the most curious thing that I picked up, was that he related his "thrill-seeking" tendencies to mine. Almost like he was trying to establish some secret bond that only me and him would share.
He then told me that I was the only one he trusted with this information. I guess that was a good way to keep me in line I guess.

Unbeknownst to him, I was angry (since he always told me he did the things he did for the family, and that he put me and my family at risk for simply a cheap _thrill_), but it was something I noticed.
But to this day, I am the only one who knows that much. He hasn't told my brother, and even my own mother doesn't even know.
Maybe he saw me as the biggest threat? So he was already trying to keep me close? Whatever his reasoning was, things are making a little more sense.

@WickerDeer, I always noticed that it was very hard to dislike my father when I was younger (even to a certain extent now). He had this "air" about him that makes it very easy to like him.
I think that's how he makes so many people fall for it. My mother told me that many of my family members cut ties with him due to him not paying back people.
So yeah, I think he is at the very least, emotionally manipulative.

Don't worry, I'm not going to cut ties with the rest of family.
This whole thing is just a giant mess that I don't want to deal with.


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## letsrunlikecrazy (Sep 21, 2015)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> When I was younger, he was *incredibly volatile and had a hair trigger. *
> 
> He was also never around, never told me where he was going, and *his impulsiveness has brought my family danger* multiple times from gangs and other groups.
> 
> ...


These are all signs of narcissistic personality disorder. If he has it, the chances of him changing for the better are essentially zero. 

Also, you mentioned that most of the family has already cut off contact with him. The ones who are still left and sticking up for him are the enablers (and their dependent children). So technically, you are in the majority. You shouldn't feel crazy at all.


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## ImpossibleHunt (May 30, 2020)

letsrunlikecrazy said:


> These are all signs of narcissistic personality disorder. If he has it, the chances of him changing for the better are essentially zero.
> 
> Also, you mentioned that most of the family has already cut off contact with him. The ones who are still left and sticking up for him are the enablers (and their dependent children). So technically, you are in the majority. You shouldn't feel crazy at all.


I’ve always suspected that, but it’s always difficult to recognize that while you’re in the moment. 
It’s like there’s a “filter” being constantly put over your eyes, that only that it lets you see an idealized picture.

But I guess part of the whole thing is that you’re supposed to feel crazy. There are moments where I certainly feel like it.
It doesn’t stop me from backing down ultimately, but the feeling always comes in waves.
I just hate being a victim, or being controlled to be made weak. That anger usually snaps me out of it though.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

Do you have any contact with the "other" family members? They might be able to provide a reality check. That can help put things in perspective ("Yeah, he did the same to me, and also to Joe"). And can help you stop feeling like you're the one weirdo who brought it on themselves, failed to deal with the situation, etc.

I usually suffer in silence because I know people don't want to listen to my whining. But occasionally I'll mention something, and the person I'm talking to knows exactly what I'm talking about. It does help. It's tricky finding that sweet spot between complaining and seeking insights. For me anyway.


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## letsrunlikecrazy (Sep 21, 2015)

ImpossibleHunt5 said:


> I’ve always suspected that, but it’s always difficult to recognize that while you’re in the moment.
> It’s like there’s a “filter” being constantly put over your eyes, that only that it lets you see an idealized picture.
> 
> But I guess part of the whole thing is that you’re supposed to feel crazy. There are moments where I certainly feel like it.
> ...


Maybe there's a part of you that still wants to see good in him and for things to work out. That's understandable. It just puts you in a tougher spot than if you didn't care at all.

Anger gets a bad rep, but sometimes it's the thing that keeps you from being a victim like you said.


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## uripickup (5 mo ago)

I don't even know where to begin, and I'm sorry you have to go through this time and time again. Sometimes the toxicity of parents is due to the conditions they grew up in as children. Also, you have to remember that the only thing you are obligated to do is to be respectful, but everything else is voluntary. Especially if it's going to be a financial issue, even if it involves buying a home for your aging parents, if it ever comes up, you can turn to a professional to help them, such as Mortgage Broker Wolverhampton. And your job will only be to make your life happier, and you can distance yourself to stay peace of mind.


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