# Do You have a preference for Fe users or Fi users😘



## X10E8 (Apr 28, 2021)

Hey there!🙂

𝗤𝟭: Do You have a preference for Fe users or Fi users?

𝗤𝟮:Which Type Connects with you better Fe user or Fi user?

Regards,


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

I like both.


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## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

I like both too. Romantically, I seem to have a preference for Ti/Fe but I've never been with an Fi user romantically, so I'm just going based on trends in my own attraction. Friend wise, I like both equally. How good the connection is depends on a lot of other factors for me such as similar values and things like that which you don't have to share the same exact functions to have. My pattern is that I tend to be on the same wavelength with fellow INxx types if we have similar values.


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

My favorites are introverts (introverted solidarity ✌).
They understand me ..


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## Clare_Bare (Apr 6, 2015)

I tend to prefer Fe users rather than Fi.
One of my long-term relationships was with an Fi dom, but it was always a struggle for me.

Many of my friendships are with the xNFJ types, there is an easy interaction with them.
I get along with the quiet confidence of ISFJ's, but I find ESFJ's are too 'forceful' for me.

I've also had friendships with low Fe users such as INTP and ESTP, so Fe at any level in the function stack can appeal to me.
It depends on the overall 'expression' of the person.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

I’m an Fi user myself and I think some clashes between Fe and Fi come from not really understanding how it works for the other, but yet feelings are involved! 

I feel like I can trust healthy Fi— in other words, once I determine this Fi is trustworthy then we are good to go. Once that Fi cares about me, it will pretty much always work to put itself into my shoes and want the best for me and vice-versa. Unless I breach some trust in some horrible way after trust is established, then I have someone I can depend on no matter the distance or how long it’s been since we’ve seen each other. They are going to be the same inside pretty much and so am I. Also, I can trust them to steadily follow their own values— Once these are understood and defined I can mold what I do fit them to easily show my love and make them happy. We allow each other and support each other to follow our own separate values. We can recognize what is important to the other and support their independent freedom.

Fe can be so comforting— some of the best support and comfort I’ve ever gotten has been from Fe users, but I think I’ve had some of my best Fe experiences with inferior Fe. Because I expect those feelings to always last and be there and maybe they won’t be with an Fe user. Basically the kind of inferior Fe that has decided just to work for me as a family member and can’t help but be compassionate for everything having to do with me, because I’m “in” but whose Ti has all the respect for independent thought and live/let live features ans has the consistency that I always look for. I believe TI has long-term features— at least it seems we Ps can be away for a long time and get together as if nothing has changed. I guess another way to look at what I’m saying is that “P” features are what I’m used to. I’m used to that consistent individual decision-making core. 

I’m learning. We had one J in my family growing up— my brother— so one out of 6. I really only have one J in my immediate family right now and that is my ESFJ son and I adore him... but Fe just doesn’t act how I expect feelings to act so it’s a learning curve. I am often very confused why his feelings don’t behave like mine do for bonding, for individuality, the whole yards. And that can be the other way around too... Fe users confused by Fi because feelings in their world behave differently and have a different set of functions and responsibilities in the stack.

I hope to get over this confusion and really understand better and that has been something I’ve worked on intensely for years and always needs more work.


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## X10E8 (Apr 28, 2021)

Llyralen said:


> I’m an Fi user myself and I think some clashes between Fe and Fi come from not really understanding how it works for the other, but yet feelings are involved!
> 
> I feel like I can trust healthy Fi— in other words, once I determine this Fi is trustworthy then we are good to go. Once that Fi cares about me, it will pretty much always work to put itself into my shoes and want the best for me and vice-versa. Unless I breach some trust in some horrible way after trust is established, then I have someone I can depend on no matter the distance or how long it’s been since we’ve seen each other. They are going to be the same inside pretty much and so am I. Also, I can trust them to steadily follow their own values— Once these are understood and defined I can mold what I do fit them to easily show my love and make them happy. We allow each other and support each other to follow our own separate values. We can recognize what is important to the other and support their independent freedom.
> 
> ...


🤍*Fe:* keeps track of how people feel about various topics and how they respond to various ideas. People who use Fe may be unable to express their own feelings if they believe they may clash with the majority's feelings. Fe isn't always compassionate, and it doesn't always transform the consumer into a pushover.

*💜Fi:*keeps track of how they feel when they communicate with others. It collects data from the outside world and converts it into reactions and emotions. Fi users can seem self-absorbed, but their emotional independence can also be used to console others and provide a direct look into a contentious viewpoint. Fi isn't always shallow, and it doesn't always make the consumer insensitive to what's going on around them.

Fe users are usually cheerful, but when they aren't, they can be dangerous. We always see optimistic Fe users as a stereotype. They have a natural ability to read people and use it to comfort them. Pessimistic Fe users can hide their emotions or use their emotional foresight to avoid communication.They are more likely to use deception than optimists, but they are still more likely to take pride in their therapeutic skills than pessimists now the Fi users innocently ASSUME the Fe users direct expression of emotion as "You're completely sure about how you feel," when their simply expressing a possibility and figuring out the best possible response. They can't feel fi in their mind without showing it in any way outside of themself (writing, speech, etc) until that external validation from the tribe comes. When they try fi, their thoughts get jumbled and incomprehensible.

On the one hand, Immature Fi/Te's very difficult for me to deal with. My ISTJ father is one of them; he is fi and wants me to know exactly how he feels and gets upset when I don't interact with him, despite the fact that he never even tries to connect. Fi users can struggle to understand the feelings of people who have different cognitive/emotional processes or are in different situations. Pessimistic Fi users are prone to ignoring other people's feelings and dwelling on their own.


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## X10E8 (Apr 28, 2021)

*Fe<Fi conflict in brutal honesty

🤍Fe*:Your way of life is unusual, and you should think about changing it.

*💜Fi*:I don't give a damn what you think about what I did because it was legal.

🤍*Fe*:This person over here is upset and you should be sad like the rest of the group.

*💜Fi*:F***k you, don't tell me what I should be feeling. I don't feel like making him happy.

🤍*Fe*:Well you need to get out of your self-absorbed bubble, where you believe your reality is the only true reality.

*💜Fi*:and you needs to let go of the idea that there is an objective morality that must be followed and instead let people make their own decisions as long it's legal not harming another being.

🤍*Fe*:I am responsible for keeping people together in harmony.

💜*Fi*:and I'm responsible for my own values

*💜Fi>Fe🤍*


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

X10E8Y65M56 said:


> 🤍*Fe:* keeps track of how people feel about various topics and how they respond to various ideas. People who use Fe may be unable to express their own feelings if they believe they may clash with the majority's feelings. Fe isn't always compassionate, and it doesn't always transform the consumer into a pushover.
> 
> *💜Fi:*keeps track of how they feel when they communicate with others. It collects data from the outside world and converts it into reactions and emotions. Fi users can seem self-absorbed, but their emotional independence can also be used to console others and provide a direct look into a contentious viewpoint. Fi isn't always shallow, and it doesn't always make the consumer insensitive to what's going on around them.
> 
> ...


I’m not sure why you quoted me, although I’m glad my comment got read.

I disagree with some of what you’re saying here. High Fi has a very strong memory for other’s values and feelings. In other words, that value/opinion you expressed years ago is probably easy for every Fi user in the room to remember. Anything having to do with personal or individual meaning gets remembered by an Fi user. Both whatever is most meaningful to you that the Fi user notices or that you express and also what is personally meaningful to the Fi user themselves. Meaningful conversations, strong feelings, joy, sadness, etc. gets remembered. From what I can tell from years of asking questions on PerC, Fi pretty much has its own memory device. But it is for these individual feelings/values. 

Maybe Fe users would remember a feeling or value a group decided together? I know Fe doesn’t immediately recognize what is personally or individually meaningful as much as it does for Fi, but I haven’t asked Fe users questions about memory for what is meaningful for a group or family. It would make sense to me if their memories for those moments might be higher than it is for Fi. 

High Fi puts itself into other people’s shoes. At multiple points you realize someone else is reacting in a way different from the way you would in that situation and this is actually the point of inspiration or wisdom that you can give to the other person. But I think because high Fi users have so much experience with this even from early ages, it’s not really the problem it is for lower Fi users. I feel Fi users talents in this area are undervalued on PerC but not in real life. I think in real life most people are grateful (depending on the individual people) for the compassion/wisdom of developed Fi.

As for health levels, I mostly agree with what you’ve said.


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## X10E8 (Apr 28, 2021)

Llyralen said:


> I’m not sure why you quoted me, although I’m glad my comment got read.
> 
> I disagree with some of what you’re saying here. High Fi has a very strong memory for other’s values and feelings in other words, that value/opinion you expressed years ago is probably easy for every Fi user in the room to remember. The importance of a conversation, the meaningfulness of something to someone close to an Fi user and also the meaningfulness of something that the Fi user feels is going to get embedded into an Fi users brain. From what I can tell from years of asking questions on PerCis that Fi pretty much has its own memory device. But it is for these individual feelings... and I haven’t thought of that or asked about that. Maybe Fe users would remember a feeling or value a group decided together better— Yep, that would make sense.
> High Fi puts itself into other people’s shoes. At multipke points you realize someone else is reacting in a way different from the way you would in that situation and this is actually the point of inspiration or wisdom that you can give to the other person. But I think because high Fi users have so much experience with this even from early ages, it’s not really the problem it is for lower Fi users. I feel Fi users talents in this area are under valued on PerC but not in real life. I think in real life most people are grateful (depending on the individual people) for the compassion of developed Fi.
> ...


Yeah, I agree. I quoted you to see what you think, to get some feedback, and to see if you're okay with it. I see what you mean since a mature cynic Fi users are easily mistaken for Fe users because they view it more critically than the average Fi user and don't romanticise their own emotions as much as the average Fi user. They immediately recognise other people's emotions, which makes them more alert because they understand how it works. It's akin to pseudo-Fe.

Fe Extroverted feelers, on the other hand, perceive their acts primarily in terms of others. They make decisions with you in mind. An extroverted feeler is inspired by the thinking of others, just as introverted feelers are motivated by their beliefs. You're the one that makes them do what they do. You're a big part of why they're taking action.

The Fe user makes any decision with the goal of helping everyone, or they make plans with the whole community in mind. This may make them seem selfless, and they are quick to sacrifice themselves for the benefit of others.


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## X10E8 (Apr 28, 2021)

*Fi>Fe*


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## X10E8 (Apr 28, 2021)

Also I just want add...

🔧*Te:*if It works and then we're happy🤍
🤍*Fe:*If your happy then it works🔧


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## Ewok City (Sep 21, 2020)

Hmm... Tough choice!!

I find that Fi are hit and or miss for me. I get along really well with them, but I heavily clash with some of them. 

For Fe, it's more consistent. I haven't clashed with any Fe in my life. I communicate well with them but the bond that I formed I with them isn't as deep as the ones I formed with the Fi (ENTJ, ENFP, etc). 

Ironically, I have trouble getting along with IxFPs! 😅


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

X10E8Y65M56 said:


> Yeah, I agree. I quoted you to see what you think, to get some feedback, and to see if you're okay with it. I see what you mean since a mature cynic Fi users are easily mistaken for Fe users because they view it more critically than the average Fi user and don't romanticise their own emotions as much as the average Fi user. They immediately recognise other people's emotions, which makes them more alert because they understand how it works. It's akin to pseudo-Fe.
> 
> Fe Extroverted feelers, on the other hand, perceive their acts primarily in terms of others. They make decisions with you in mind. An extroverted feeler is inspired by the thinking of others, just as introverted feelers are motivated by their beliefs. You're the one that makes them do what they do. You're a big part of why they're taking action.
> 
> The Fe user makes any decision with the goal of helping everyone, or they make plans with the whole community in mind. This may make them seem selfless, and they are quick to sacrifice themselves for the benefit of others.


I think this is too simplistic.

Fe can be harsh. It can be cut-throat. Their values are not always about treating people well. Fe is about upholding the values and harmony of the groups that they have subscribed to. 

Fe= seeks external harmony/consistency with external values and feelings.
Fi= Seeks internal harmony/consistency with internal values.

Fi user might have the strong value of selflessness or kindness and need to follow this due to harmony with their own values Or a high Fi user might have self-preservation as their highest value. Although pretty much all high Fi is going to put themselves into the other person’s shoes and get information about how they want to proceed from that intertwined with their own values.


I don’t know. Functions are really sophisticated when in the highest positions. I think simplifying them too much ends up leading to mistypings and general misunderstandings. I see over-simplification a lot, especially for Fi and I usually find it somewhat insulting. For instance, Dave super Powers simplifying Fi to “What you like or what you don’t like” it’s so much more complex than that at higher levels. Kirkegaard and Emerson are Fi doms. Fi at high levels produces very complex original philosophy. Although, I guess I understand people’s craving to simplify. 

The problem also with simplifying is that then people (I’m not saying you, you seem very open to understanding more) will think they have everything already figured out and have difficulty taking in more meaning. The one line I really love from Avetar is “It is hard to fill a cup that is already full.” If someone thinks they understand everything then they really aren’t learning more... this goes for me too. It would be hard for me to say too much more about Fe in areas where I haven’t asked a lot of questions to be sure of what it is like. Get it from the horse’s mouth. (Oh man, that’s a crazy saying when I think of it.)


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## alexhales (May 3, 2019)

I prefer Fi users because I'm an Fi myself, and I find we just "get" each other intuitively which makes communication easier. Having said this, I could definitely be open to an Fe user if I felt that emotional connection or bond with them!


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## goodvibe (Aug 23, 2013)

X10E8Y65M56 said:


> *💜Fi:*keeps track of how they feel when they communicate with others. *It collects data from the outside world and converts it into reactions and emotions.*


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## secondpassing (Jan 13, 2018)

goodvibe said:


>


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## attic (May 20, 2012)

I can almost feel a bit of revulsion at Fe in theory. But in people I usually find it likeable... odd but true. So I actually don't know if I have a preference... it probably depends too much on other factors.


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## Andy 8184 (May 24, 2021)

I prefer Fe users mostly. It's my favourite function when it comes to other people. It's very hit or miss with Fi's. I've met insufferable ones.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

I could have come across ENFPs without knowing it, but to date my limited experience with other Fi users as an INFP has mostly been with ESFPs, and women. If I’m correct this isn’t a rare type among women.

It’s one of those cases where at first I seem to have come across someone that shares at least some or even a number of similar ways of looking at the world, someone who’s just as individualistic and concerned with personal values as I am, but over time I come to realize how different we actually are when it comes to how we wish to live, and they really start getting on my nerves because I simply see so many things they can’t see (including their potential mistakes) while they’re completely engrossed and happy in the world of five senses and physical things. As I mentioned in another post here it’s ultimately their lack of insight, foresight and hindsight into their own lives as well as the world in general (abstract / philosophical side is the one they lack) that makes me grow in frustration after a while. I end up not really feeling understood and unable to share most of my deeper musings with them because they simply don’t care, while I feel like they don’t appreciate what I try to tell them about their bad decisions (superficiality and image comes at a price) and keep going down that path.

By the time it reaches that point, the fun and charming person that I envy for their ability to live in the moment and better appreciate life as it is becomes an emotional burden.

Note I’m a guy and most of these weren’t romantic connections save for my ex. She was very smart and very much a rebel spirit like me, but ultimately pro-establishment in ways that disturbed me and we wanted different lifestyles. She kept telling my secrets and embarrassing things to others too.

NF type Fe users on the other hand, are awesome when healthy. An INFJ / ENFJ has the ability to cheer me up while giving a different, more “objective” / “universal” perspective on values and morality but retains the ability to converse on more abstract topics and sharing that idealism with me. We sometimes don’t see eye to eye due to Fi vs Fe and from their perspective I’m being insensitive / ignorant to more “universal” perspectives, but they do such a better job of understanding and accommodating me than I could ever imagine myself accommodating a value system with notable differences (we’re more alike for the most part though). My long-time INFJ friend tells me I have an inner strength (especially in this current mess of a situation) in ways he thinks he doesn’t have. I personally don’t always feel that way.

One of my best friends is ENTP so he’s an Fe user too though lower in the bracket. He’s clearly a more logical person than I am when I get into emotional tirades but we share a love for freedom and deeper thought and get along very well. In some ways he’s even more fun-loving and free-spirited than I am.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

It’s more effortless for me to connect with other fi users - I enjoy conversing with the type . I feel like fi users understands who I am and when stressed /down I’m more comforted by fi users

All in general I connect and prefer Fi users 

if entp count as Fe then I guess it’s the only fe type that gets me but it could be due to the fact that the entps in my life are ( my father , son , and my bff of nearly 25 years ) 


with all that said - I enjoy the Fe users in my life just it’s a hit or miss on the connection, we either connect deeply or not at all. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

The Se of xNFJs sometimes manifests as wanting more out of their physical environment / their need for external stimuli can be a bit exhausting for me to keep up with even though it’s in the 3rd or 4th position. For example my INFJ friend sometimes asks me to describe an experience all the way down to the details but I’m not always able to describe it accurately / just don’t feel like it and thus leads to misunderstandings. However it’s more bearable than the dominant / auxiliary Se of xSFPs where they live and breathe the physical world.

I must also disagree with many descriptions of Fi as a non-interventionist, “do whatever you feel like” function. While I rarely call someone out for acting in a way that goes against what I feel is right, deep down I always know when what they do doesn’t match with what I feel is right and will adjust my treatment towards them subtly. If backed into a corner I will let them know what exactly they did that’s not palatable to me. Even then I’m rarely rude about it but I will get my point across. 

Not saying Fe can’t have strongly held personal beliefs (xNFJs very much can and do) but I associate “I don’t agree with what you said / do but I will defend your right to say it / do it” more with Fe than Fi, because it’s an inclination towards a more objective / universal belief without always needing it to align exactly with your own beliefs and preferences, more like a broad governing code for societal relations.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

ISFJ / ESFJ’s Fe is the least bearable for me. The combination of Si and Fe can be a surprisingly potent one in the sense that they expect you to conform to commonly accepted standards of thinking and behavior and will definitely keep score if you don’t. The best way to convince them to adopt a new idea and utilize their Ne is when other people around them are doing it / if it becomes socially acceptable. They need to be led when it comes to their intuition, either by a person but more likely by shifting social trends as a whole.
However that can be a double edged sword as well. When their Ne finally works together with their Si and Fe but that set of new ideas is widely accepted but not necessarily good to have, it can lead to mistaken / misguided obedience.

Fi: I am the only right one and will stick to it at all costs, everyone else is blind.

Fe: If more people are doing it, it must be right and shouldn’t be challenged or else I’ll be the only one who hasn’t seen the light.

These are the extreme versions.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

WraithOfNightmare said:


> The Se of xNFJs sometimes manifests as wanting more out of their physical environment / their need for external stimuli can be a bit exhausting for me to keep up with even though it’s in the 3rd or 4th position. For example my INFJ friend sometimes asks me to describe an experience all the way down to the details but I’m not always able to describe it accurately / just don’t feel like it and thus leads to misunderstandings. However it’s more bearable than the dominant / auxiliary Se of xSFPs where they live and breathe the physical world.
> 
> I must also disagree with many descriptions of Fi as a non-interventionist, “do whatever you feel like” function. While I rarely call someone out for acting in a way that goes against what I feel is right, deep down I always know when what they do doesn’t match with what I feel is right and will adjust my treatment towards them subtly. If backed into a corner I will let them know what exactly they did that’s not palatable to me. Even then I’m rarely rude about it but I will get my point across.
> 
> Not saying Fe can’t have strongly held personal beliefs (xNFJs very much can and do) but I associate “I don’t agree with what you said / do but I will defend your right to say it / do it” more with Fe than Fi, because it’s an inclination towards a more objective / universal belief without always needing it to align exactly with your own beliefs and preferences, more like a broad governing code for societal relations.


I have seen a few people who feel like you, but it seems to be the minority of Fi users. I think what you’re talking about or maybe have a higher bar for is “crossing that Fi”. Maybe more things people do seriously cross with your Fi.

I think for many people someone else crossing an Fi line balances with ideals of personal freedom, agency, and the idea of someone following their own conscience and beat to their own drummer. But... it could be just all how we decide to frame how we process our Fi. I mean, I definitely don’t trust everyone.. but do I feel like telling them what to do? Not usually.. because in my mind THAT would be an infringement or invasion of their rights. I said usually, but what if they are hurting someone else or themselves? If there is a victim then it means there has been a bigger invasion. I might feel the need to intervene to follow my conscience to protect someone’s freedom/rights. So some of this might be framing, some of it might be how seriously you see your beliefs as imperially correct rather than just rules for you yourself due to personal freedom. I would think even with taking personal beliefs/ideals to a place where you think they should apply to others then it would really depend on which beliefs we are talking about and the degree to which that behavior affects others. I would think. What do you think?

Can Fi be vigilant and/or preacher? I do see this, usually in people who are so darn sure of themselves in just a few particular ways, usually. I usually think more information-gathering is the key. But that’s my conclusion/observation. What about you?


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

To clarify, I generally don’t directly tell people what to do and I try be as accommodating as possible with regards to the way they do things as long as 1. It doesn’t infringe on what I feel is right and wrong and 2. It doesn’t directly affect me or then negatively. When it comes to #2, even then I have a hard time just getting up and telling them what to do even if I know what they should probably do.

I normally don’t come off as preachy / vigilant, instead I’m more likely to state in a casual way what I feel is right, but with the intent of being taken seriously and maybe deep down I do hope the other person feels the same way as I do. You can definitely see me light up when they indeed feel the same way as I do.

With regards to other people’s personal beliefs, it depends on how much I share in common with them overall. If we have mostly the same broad ideas and hopes and just disagree on some stuff here and there, I generally respect their right to what they believe. However, if I find them to be a generally disagreeable person where we don’t share much in common and maybe only a few things here and there in common, I still can’t help but start to doubt their character even though I will rarely let them know unless really pushed. I don’t try to “change” them but I will disassociate myself from them I realize who they are.

Generally the closer someone is to me, the higher I hold the bar when it comes to sharing my Fi ideals and beliefs, and thus greater the disappointment when it doesn’t work out. Over the years I’ve become a lot more cautious when it comes to trusting people, but so far I’m glad to say the few people I have deeper connections with generally share the same ideas and values as I do, with differences here and there of course but the big picture fits well and we generally understand each other. I really like someone who’s curious about the world, liberal and free-spirited but not “progressive” in every way.

So yeah to sum it up I rarely get preachy unless I really feel like I have to, whether asserting my own choices or when I’m flat out annoyed / worried / frustrated at the totally avoidable consequences that came out of someone else’s bad decision making, but whether it’s the good or bad I internalize it somehow and use it for my own reference. That’s where the Si comes in.

I guess a better way for what my Fi feels like is: “Do whatever you feel like, but if I don’t like it I’ll actively avoid it and please don’t bring it up in front of me. And if I was in a position of power I wouldn’t hurt you directly but I wouldn’t favor you and your lifestyle / ideas.”


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

Maybe this is inferior Te at work but in practice while there are times where I do wish to see things more “logically” or maybe give some more logical advice to someone but I always end up with this clash of heart and head because deep down I’m asking myself whether I’m going too far / how much sense I really have. So I’m actually a lot more hesitant than I appear when telling someone what I feel they should do because I don’t want to sound as if I’m telling them who to become. However, if they clearly violate something I feel is morally wrong then it becomes a different story. I will refuse to acknowledge them anymore.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

WraithOfNightmare said:


> Maybe this is inferior Te at work but in practice while there are times where I do wish to see things more “logically” or maybe give some more logical advice to someone but I always end up with this clash of heart and head because deep down I’m asking myself whether I’m going too far / how much sense I really have. So I’m actually a lot more hesitant than I appear when telling someone what I feel they should do because I don’t want to sound as if I’m telling them who to become. However, if they clearly violate something I feel is morally wrong then it becomes a different story. I will refuse to acknowledge them anymore.


Sounds like classic Fi to me. Normal, imo. It’s always like that. Do I tell them and invade their right to act how they do? Do I keep quiet and allow people to cross my values? It’s why we are so particular about friendships.


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## cocktaildress (Feb 13, 2021)

Fe users really get shit done and take care of business. Fi people are inspirational. They are "our voice", they embody our needs and yearnings. I see a lot of Fe users at the top of my organization.


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## Glittris (May 15, 2020)

Interesting, now when I look back, I can conclude I like Fi-people WAY much more than Fe-users, probably since I just use Fi myself, I guess that it is because different birds actually do flock together, if being Sx like me.

I see people who use Fe as being too much pleasing and too easily being doormats (DISCLAIMER this is not mean to be any insult, I objective know you are awesome to "tie the room together" so speaking...)

Reason that I do not like dom/aux Fe-users is due to Fe is my own PoRL and I will probably never understand it... Please, do not cuddle me, those hugs are my kryptonite, OMG, leave me be _runs like hell_ >w>


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## FreeKekistan (Mar 4, 2015)

I prefer to interact with Fi. The non-impossible kind. The authentic Fi, but not the unrealistic Fi. Some have it, some don't. I already have Fe. Don't need another one. It's hit and miss with Fi so you could get a gem or you could get a turd.


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## Sinuous (Jun 18, 2021)

I’m not sure, they’re both fine, however I really, genuinely don’t understand Fi doms, and even tho I have many acquaintances, we never connected on a deeper level. Neither have I connected deeply with an Fe dom… 
HOWEVER, I prefer dealing with Fi users most of the time, to be specific, INTJs and ENTJs, and occasionally ESFPs


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

Llyralen said:


> High Fi puts itself into other people’s shoes. At multiple points you realize someone else is reacting in a way different from the way you would in that situation and this is actually the point of inspiration or wisdom that you can give to the other person. But I think because high Fi users have so much experience with this even from early ages, it’s not really the problem it is for lower Fi users. I feel Fi users talents in this area are undervalued on PerC but not in real life. I think in real life most people are grateful (depending on the individual people) for the compassion/wisdom of developed Fi.


Could you explain more about this phenomenon (putting yourself into other people's shoes) and what it actually means in practise and bring some examples? I have mixed thoughts about it although I've seen something like that used by some people - or maybe I'm wrong and it's some other feature.

Recently had an experience with chatting one girl who might be Fi dom in mbti context and what I saw was that she "labeled" / sticked or projected her own personality, emotional state and interpretation of the topic at hands, to me without realizing those are actually her own traits and interpretation not mine. Like mirroring or projection of her own interpretation to other person like it was other person's interpretation. Not sure if it's the same thing you described above though.

I'm a bit confused about that, isn't it rather prejudice or what, as we can't really see what's inside anyone else's mind, thus how we can put ourselves in their shoes and experience exactly what they do?  Sounds more like projection to me, plus assumption that things play out in other person's mind same way as they do inside our own. Or even a superpower! I can easily put myself mentally into any situation and imagine how it would play out but it'd be still through my lens, which may or may not apply to other persons. It's judging from our own viewpoint, not how it might exactly play out for anyone else in same situation.

For example, if I put myself into Fi person shoes, I'd still see the situation through lens of my own personality. And vice versa - if Fi person did the same, they'd still see the situation through Fi lens not mine. But possible I'm misunderstanding something about the concept you explained or I'm explaining some different phenomenon by myself - further explanation about the topic is very welcome


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

Fi, but inferior Fe is also nice. Edit: Actually inferior Fi and inferior Fe are the best. 😸 Inferior Fe seems that doesn't follow your feelings, while in reality absorbs everything (seems cold and distant but the opposite), and inferior Fi "needs" your Fe for themselves, because they are a bit out of touch with it.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

I would love to hear more about your preference towards inferior (or maybe tertiary) Fi users, because as a dominant Fi user I can struggle with Tertiary / Inferior Fi even more so than unbalanced Fe.


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## Antiparticle (Jan 8, 2013)

WraithOfNightmare said:


> I would love to hear more about your preference towards inferior (or maybe tertiary) Fi users, because as a dominant Fi user I can struggle with Tertiary / Inferior Fi even more so than unbalanced Fe.


If you mean me, I was having in mind 1 INTP and 2 ISTP colleagues, who mostly do their own thing, no awkward F-F interactions, and then they surprise me with some notion of thoughtfulness, like they absorb everything about me and know me very well. So inferior Fe is actually very aware of the surrounding feelings, just on a different time-scale, which I find very nice and thoughtful in the long run (which is what you usually want out of a friendship).

Inferior Fi is my preference with partners, because I like not knowing "what is going on" and practice my Fe. 

Dominant Fi-s sometimes get awkward with my tertiary Fe. Is this what you had in mind?


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## nicoloco90 (May 3, 2010)

Electra said:


> I like both.


Lame ! 

Electrina, pick one and start writing already!


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## nicoloco90 (May 3, 2010)

I prefer Fi-users because it feels more exclusive ''winning over'' anything heartfelt or personal from them, as opposed to the chameleon-Fe-user who might as well be just as affectionate with your neighbours generic pool boy and local beggar at the store as with you within the span of 5 minutes. So confusing.


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## X10E8 (Apr 28, 2021)




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## FreeKekistan (Mar 4, 2015)

X10E8 said:


> View attachment 886749


Stop threatening me with a good time.

I voted Fi. I have not changed my mind.


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## odinthor (Mar 22, 2017)

tarmonk said:


> Could you explain more about this phenomenon (putting yourself into other people's shoes) and what it actually means in practise and bring some examples? I have mixed thoughts about it although I've seen something like that used by some people - or maybe I'm wrong and it's some other feature.
> 
> Recently had an experience with chatting one girl who might be Fi dom in mbti context and what I saw was that she "labeled" / sticked or projected her own personality, emotional state and interpretation of the topic at hands, to me without realizing those are actually her own traits and interpretation not mine. Like mirroring or projection of her own interpretation to other person like it was other person's interpretation. Not sure if it's the same thing you described above though.
> 
> ...


I note that this excellent point or set of points has not been answered.

It's a concern that evidently has a historical tendency to be left unanswered. See the latter part of post I'll call Filtering the Other Person Through Themselves from 2013.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

This is more of a general INFP thing than a strictly Fi or Fe thing, but there’s a couple of things I can’t stand in people more than them simply being unkind:

1. When they assume I have bad intentions when I clearly don’t, and when I try to explain myself to them (if I choose to) they still assume that I’m some bad person.


2. When they make superficial comments in a manner that clearly reeks of disdain and / or jealousy while not taking the time and energy to know me as an individual. A lot of it is disguised as trying to be “helpful.”

3. When they assume I’m being a snob when I’m just being myself and sharing with them something I’m passionate about. It could be traveling, or a hobby, or just something where I’m a bit of a geek (pretty much me lol).

4. This is somewhat related to unhealthy Fe, but I’ve come across plenty of people who are quick to invoke group harmony and the “greater good” while clearly being hypocrites in many other areas of their lives. They’d rather spend their time and energy putting down someone than actually doing something meaningful to help out the group they claim to care about. I’m extremely suspicious of people who are very loud about being moral and charitable. 


5. People who are quick to assume negatively of me, claiming all of their observations are based on what’s “logical”, while not realizing how subjective their perceptions actually are. Unfortunately too many are in positions of authority and got more than a slight boner for power tripping.


6. People who insist they I stay “on topic” when from my POV they’re not seeing the connections and possibilities branching into further topics.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

odinthor said:


> I note that this excellent point or set of points has not been answered.
> 
> It's a concern that evidently has a historical tendency to be left unanswered.


Yep, would be pretty interested in explanation. Otherwise it looks just like smoke cover or arbitrary words which don't mean much in practise


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## Bel Esprit (Aug 2, 2011)

I like and dislike both. I don't know if I prefer one over the other because it really depends on who is using that function.

I've met Fe users who cannot connect with anyone who does not have Fe or at the very least share their view because they cannot afford to have their Fe offended. This is obviously unhealthy but it's a form that exists with some people.

I've had to walk on eggshells around many Fe users and don't feel that I can even be myself because it's so obvious they are so hyper aware of what's going on around them and every expression or move I make that it causes me a lot of anxiety and makes me feel like I need to act a certain way to please them. Many of them will say one thing and have a completely different facial expression and it can be very fake and cause me to question my trust for them.
People don't want to hear that Fe is fake because they view the word "fake" in negative terms but if you compare Fe to the definition, it's easy to see this is how they behave and it's usually with good intent.


Fi, on the other hand, can be extremely whiny and have no self-awareness. A couple of my INFP and ENFP friends have sort of gone off the deep end and are in some funk where their Fi is so disgustingly irritating I have to tell them I cannot talk to them anymore until they check themselves because you can't even have a conversation with them without them making it all about them and not letting you get a single word in. They're usually better in person. Still whiny, but better. But over the phone I've had to hang up on them multiple times because they don't shut up.
(I also have trouble talking to Fe users on the phone because they're used to evaluating the others facial expressions and so they don't usually know when to start or stop talking sometimes.)

It's also easy to offend Fi because it perceives a threat, it can be vengeful and unnecessarily abrasive.



Now that I've mentioned the negative, it's seems like an occasion for the positive although I mention the negative because the positive is more obvious.
I might try to post the positive at a later time.


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## FreeKekistan (Mar 4, 2015)

WraithOfNightmare said:


> 4. This is somewhat related to unhealthy Fe, but I’ve come across plenty of people who are quick to invoke group harmony and the “greater good” while clearly being hypocrites in many other areas of their lives. They’d rather spend their time and energy putting down someone than actually doing something meaningful to help out the group they claim to care about. I’m extremely suspicious of people who are very loud about being moral and charitable.


Absolutely BASED. Yes. The Greater Good is just a trojan horse. Examples:

We must persecute the jews for the greater good of germany
We must persecute the intellectuals for the greater good of the communist revolution
We must surrender our freedoms and allow the government to tells us what to do and read our data for the greater good of security in the fight against terrorism

And the list continues.


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## tarmonk (Nov 21, 2017)

Bel Esprit said:


> Fi, on the other hand, can be extremely whiny and have no self-awareness. A couple of my INFP and ENFP friends have sort of gone off the deep end and are in some funk where their Fi is so disgustingly irritating I have to tell them I cannot talk to them anymore until they check themselves because you can't even have a conversation with them without them making it all about them and not letting you get a single word in. They're usually better in person. Still whiny, but better.


Why you think they're xNFP and this is a type thing  Doesn't sound xNFP attitude to me.


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## odinthor (Mar 22, 2017)

I know that it’s mostly unintended; but there’s a kind of false dichotomy between individualists and groupists, with a dash of semantic jugglery, going on here. It's used unconsciously, because it’s very commonplace; but it’s something that people should ponder, and ponder well.

It’s easy to demonize group thought, whatever term people might use to express that notion. “Oh, those awful groups, juggernauts visiting harm and horror upon the world throughout the ages! Oh, the chilling examples I could give! If only people would hew to the pure and authentic aspirations of the individual!” Somehow, those who think like this conveniently forget about the groups or movements which have indisputably done good--often ones that they themselves have made use of and advocate under other circumstances--and meantime they also conveniently forget about the horrible things that individuals acting on their own have done.

The supposition required to make this common but wobbly dichotomy valid is that groupist people simply flush their minds clear in the morning, step out the door, and essentially mindlessly adopt whatever idea happens to be prevalent “out there.” But this is a fallacy. This is an artificial argument. This does not happen. One subset of groupists will perhaps adopt an idea which is currently receiving attention because it resonates with ideas the individual has already had. Another such subset may not have already had the idea, but spontaneously finds it attractive because it seems to promise some opportunity for personal gain (“Wow, Buggy-Whip-ism is getting popular! And here I am, a buggy-whip maker!!!”). A third subset—which in truth may be a special section of the second subset—will see that there are personal conveniences to be had in latching on to popular ideas (“If I do embrace this, influential people may do things favorable to me; if I don’t, my chances for favor lessen”). And we can’t forget that tiny percentage which regards personal advantage as a lower priority and adopts an idea because it truly seems to that person that Society (“of which I am a part”) will benefit in an appropriate way. Though each of these masquerades under cover of the general movement, in each and every case it is not someone simply adopting whatever is out there—_it is the individual making an individual decision for whatever reason_. There's nothing "fake" in that. A group is simply individualism in bulk.

But not every idea resonates, not every idea can be seen by others to offer opportunity or convenience. And yet there still is a world of individuals who nevertheless individually have ideas which happen not to offer to others resonance, opportunity, or convenience. And the great likelihood is that the set of people out there who have their own individual ideas and aspirations—ones that lack resonance, opportunity, or convenience, and which are simply self-serving self-indulgences—is all put together a larger group than is any group which coalesces around ideas of resonance, opportunity, and/or convenience.

In other words, it’s inappropriate to denigrate group thought and then turn around and glorify and romanticize ideas just because they come from individuals—with the personal biases and limitations of the individual. A person is not a paragon of virtue because they reject or disrespect an idea merely because they themselves didn’t give it birth, and merely because others have accepted it. Considering an idea or concept to inherently have more nobility and value because only one person bears it is to bow to a mirage of value: Such a thing is only egoist window-dressing.


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## Bel Esprit (Aug 2, 2011)

tarmonk said:


> Why you think they're xNFP and this is a type thing  Doesn't sound xNFP attitude to me.


Fi is, without a doubt, the whiniest function. Being consistently self-focused leads to a lack of self-awareness and the illusion that people actually care about everything you have to say.
Not that all are like this, but as an Fi user myself, and knowing Fi users who are like this, even those that whine to me agree that Fi can be annoying asf.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

As a Dom-Fi user, I definitely see what you’re saying in myself. And I’m aware that I do come across that way to lots of people, but at the same time, I take my shirt off for someone I really care about and really wish well. So it’s not a matter of all taking while not giving anything in return for me. A lot of times when I come off as whiny / preachy I’m usually tired or having a bad day, or when I feel there are legit improvements that could be made. 

Tertiary / Inferior Fi users and some Fe users can exhibit what you’re describing as well. I have friends who are staunch believers in the “Just World” theory and would sometimes whine to me on and on about how other people “don’t follow the rules” and “are getting away with stuff” or don’t deserve so and so because they belong to certain categories that my friends don’t wish well. Now that to me is far more malign than just whining about “little things”, it’s a whole world view that I find very disturbing.

I think as an Fi user, or at least a dominant one, for me it’s a matter of high input and high expectations. I am willing to give a lot and go out of my way to assist people I really care about, at the same time I have high expectations when it comes to them being on the same page as me (not necessarily having to compensate me with anything tangible) with regards to many things. Call it a hidden and subtle “boss complex” if you will, after all my shadow is ESTJ. I just come off comically awkward actually trying to be one. 

I’m certainly not a paragon of good behavior when it comes to social niceties and common courtesies, I both knowingly and unknowingly fail to follow standard protocol. Coupled with the fact that I do strongly suspect I have some neurodivergent tendencies, sometimes I can’t help the fact that I genuinely don’t know what I’m supposed to do. It’s a different story once you really get to know me and make me feel appreciated.


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

I get what you’re trying to say and perhaps both of us are imagining the most ideal scenarios when it comes to the power of the individual vs the power of the group. It’s certainly true that like well-intentioned individuals, when a group with noble ideals works together they can become a great force for good. However, from personal experience and as a history buff I feel I have ample cause to fear the destructive impact of group thinking (and the individuals who rally these people together) over the destructive acts of lone wolves (who are often radicalized one way or another by these groups).

The power of de-individuation, dehumanization, and the human desire to be accepted by the collective has led to lots of dark things. I’m not going to list all of them but a few examples should come to mind without too much trouble. Me personally I dabbled into some extremist groups (I was never fully into them, but looking back I can see how going further would have totally destroyed me) as a teenager, namely the alt-right and men’s rights / MGTOW. As a person of color I literally embodied what some of those people saw as the root cause of many social ills, but being a teenager I didn’t really know what they were leading me into. They made me feel I was an adult, I was an equal, that I was treated with a sense of fairness and dignity that I didn’t get from a broken home life. Having done some research several years later, I realized my experience was a common one for others lured into these groups. 

I spent those years living with a sense of perpetual angst and hatred, which affected me personally and my ability to have healthy relationships of any kind. I felt the destructive potential of it even as someone who was on the fence compared to those “hardcore” followers. Deep down there was always a voice telling me I didn’t really want to be that way and that I didn’t agree with most of their fundamental beliefs, but again it was the loneliness and a craving for a sense of identity that kept me on that train of thought longer than I should have. 

I’ve also been the victim of group shaming / group attacks when I didn’t fit into their narrative of what they feel is right. It was a common tactic used on me by abusive parents and relatives that I actually bought into until I realized it was all about control. People become emboldened in groups and too often use the group consensus / group atmosphere as justification for their own lack of judgment or even a lack of morality, intelligence, whatever. “I was just following orders” / “I was just doing what everyone else was doing”. Sure, maybe many of these people are inherently malicious and don’t play nice even as individuals, but the fact that they gather together in the safety of a group setting augments the qualities of the people they already are. 

People who might get along as individuals under more favorable circumstances are forced or brainwashed into antagonizing each other under the power of the collective. They start seeing each other as the summary of what they’ve been told is wrong about the other side. This is why wars are started and disputes happen for the most stupid of reasons. Of course this all plays into the hands of powerful people that exploit groupthink for their own ends. And then of course there’s cults.

From my personal experiences getting the short end of the stick just because I’m different / I ask more questions, as well as what I’ve seen in the world and my own experiences being influenced by the more malign forms of groupthink, it’s left me with a lasting fear and suspicion of the collective as a concept. And let’s not forget that even people who preach personal sacrifice / not stirring the pot for the “greater good” often have more selfish motives too.

We’re the lucky ones because coming from or at least spending a good portion of our lives in a relatively individualist culture, we’re sort of spared from the most destructive forms of groupthink and group pressure, which is not forgetting the fact that even societies which greatly pride themselves in their uniqueness and respect for personal liberty aren’t entirely spared. We tend to look for what seem like the simplest solutions for complex issues.

On average though, it’s sort of engrained in us that we have the power to choose what suits us best, whether it be acting in a more “individualist” or a more “collectivist” way. Coming from an East Asian background though not entirely raised in “the system”, I often see that the pressure (even on a strictly personal, psychological level) to conform is far more brutal and taxing for someone who’s lived their whole life in that system / grew up entirely influenced by that system. The suicide rates in places like Japan, Korea and Singapore are no joke. In those cases we see a lot of bullying because the pressure and desire to belong turns people into bullies, and they choose to suppress their true feelings even if they might well be sympathetic on an individual level.

Of course we’re going to ask why don’t they think more critically about what they’re really being told to do. I ask that question all the time, and I don’t have all the answers but sad to say, for them being accepted or not by the collective may well be a matter of literal life or death. They’re programmed to believe such is the case. You’re always going to get rebels, and many of them I really admire, but the majority are more than happy to roll with the punches and make others suffer for not doing the same, no matter what their personal intentions are.

It can also be a matter of genuine desire to make things better, even a matter of efficiency and effectiveness that’s negatively impacted by a group that is stuck in its ways and much more concerned with maintaining cohesion and the status quo, the power of a select few people and their cronies, sycophants if you will.

I have some opinions that align with the “mainstream”, and I’m not someone who usually goes out of their way to let everyone look at me for the sake of proving how different or creative I am. Having to act out ends up becoming its own form of groupthink and conformity. Whether it’s this or the more traditional kinds of collectivist / group thought when manifested negatively, it essentially shows that unfortunately, many people aren’t safe in their own skin or are taught not to be safe in their own skin. And this is what the powerful in society want.

I hate to use a “Marxist” / classist point of view, but take something like nationalism / ethnocentrism / even fascism for example. Throughout history, it was often the people who had their bellies full and everything taken care of that spearheaded these “high minded” ideals, basically us versus them. I’m not singling out any country or population in particular, but these days I’m seeing the opposite. More often than not it’s the less educated (and thus having more potential to be susceptible to malign groupthink) and not so well-read that are prone to taking personal offense at broader issues and see the “others / outsiders” as the source of all their life problems. They’re often not the ones asking how their own systems can be improved, or how to better enrich their lives. They just find it convenient to latch onto some abstract ideal of a collective consciousness, a mythology to fill the void in their own lives by asking how they can, or get people in power who can worsen the lives of their perceived enemies.

For an individual, it’s usually a gradual process towards insanity. For a group or collective it’s often a rapid or immediate process due to the factors I mentioned above. If I go out of my way to avoid the group, it’s because of my deep-seated fear and skepticism that I summed up. Whether implicitly or explicitly, groups and collectives are usually hierarchical more than egalitarian.


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## odinthor (Mar 22, 2017)

^^^Many thanks. I sincerely appreciate these clear, thorough, and well-reasoned remarks!


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## WraithOfNightmare (Jun 20, 2019)

You’re welcome. Yours were a pleasure to read as well.


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