# Opinion Of Western Women



## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

^ About 4 times with perfect justification. It was a complete stealth joke.


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## jack london (Aug 27, 2010)

Honestly, how many of us can talk intelligently about this topic anyway? Who knows foreign women and western women more than just in passing? 

If you have a female relative who is originally from another country but lives here now she is already changed from her time in America. 

It might be interesting if someone was had married a women from each culture and then could compare and contrast.


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Mutatio NOmenis said:


> ^ About 4 times with perfect justification. It was a complete stealth joke.


Goodness. Start talking to more perceptive people. The first thing I noticed was the innuendo.




jack london said:


> Honestly, how many of us can talk intelligently about this topic anyway? Who knows foreign women and western women more than just in passing?


Comparing one's experience with a few girls of one culture to their fantasy and expectations of another :tongue:


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

*
I'm curious about the opinions on all sides of the issue. Guys, do you think that Western women are worse marriage material than eastern European or Asian women? Girls, what do you think of Western vs. Eastern men? If you're from east Europe or Asia, what do you think of Western men and/or women?*


a) I am going to answer all three parts, the first from a gender-neutral standpoint. The kind of men who think Western women are worse marriage material are often the kind of men that I, as a "non-Western" woman, would reject right off the bat. Much of this prejudice against western women come from Orientalist stereotypes about Eastern cultures. A major component of the Western outlook on Eastern civilizations was the tendency of 'othering' and the related and highly important point about "feminizing the other". I will give you India's example. Essentialist judgments will foster overly simplistic conceptions of any culture. If you read colonialist lit. from the early 17th-18th century, the country is often portrayed as a "spiritual heroine", feminine in its 'irrationality', 'emotionalism' and even 'submissiveness'; all of this is held in opposition to the 'masculinist' West, exemplifying masculinity through enlightenment rationality, mercantile colonialism, war and conquest, the forceful and strategic imposition of foreign cultures and religions etc. Now, most men who are suspicious of Western women may not know crap about Orientalism, but their attitudes reflect a similar feminization and othering of eastern cultures. In this case, the western woman comes under the masculine fold and is seen as possessing masculine qualities, reflecting popular perceptions of western culture [valuing assertiveness, ambition etc.]. An under confident and insecure male will find a strong woman threatening, and if the "western woman" is automatically assumed to be strong and ambitious, she will make such a man feel inadequate. It's his own damn problem. It is a blanket assertion of course and completely disregards the fact that just like the homogenization of eastern cultures is flawed, so is the homogenization of western cultures and western women.


What the hell is a "western woman"? She is not a singular, one-dimensional entity. Every woman, whether European or American/Canadian, is different. Of course, I have seen some very soft-spoken and even submissive American women. I have also seen the opposite, and this stands true for every culture. As I remarked earlier, the man who feels that western women are 'unfaithful' (grrr!), aggressive, opportunistic or whatever is a lousy individual with a backward and utterly despicable mindset on the place and role of women in society. I have had such men approach me because they made certain assumptions based on where I come from, and these were all highly disrespectful. It was a "How dare you fuckin insinuate that I am a submissive downtrodden woman who will double as a maid and sex slave?" moment. I have been approached by such men in situations where they haven't seen me in "action", in other words, they have probably talked to me for about two minutes or less and shoot off about how agreeable and submissive women from my culture (Indian+Iranian) are, how well they "serve their husbands". I am cutting out many details here that can easily be considered misogynistic. For a second, I thought I was living in a different century. It doesn't take them long to learn how submissive I am not. In fact, I have often been called 'too masculine'.  I can always feel my face turning hot as I enter the first stages of combat mode. Fun times. *laugh*


b) The man can be Eastern/Western/Northern/Southern *laugh* I am just kidding. The point is I don't care where he is from, as long as he is the kind of man I want to be with which is- intelligent, knowledgeable, strong, assertive, courageous,open-minded, an independent and progressive thinker, sensitive, kind, mature, thoughtful and so on. I have dated Asians and caucasians, and my current bf is African American. I have enjoyed my interactions and relationships with men from every culture and I do not discriminate. Dating someone from a different culture can be very exciting because you learn about their society, their customs, way of life and so on. I am open to dating people from my own culture as well as other cultures. Whoever I date, I make an attempt to understand where they come from and who they are, and most people I date are often very in tune with the history of their respective communities. For instance, I have been reading about African American history, race relations and the civil rights movement in America, not just out of personal interest, but because I want to feel a greater solidarity with my partner and understand the social and political struggles his community has endured. The Western men I have dated have all shown a keen interest in my culture and the politics and history of the where I come from, and I have always honoured this interest and valued it highly. Wanting to learn who I am and where I come from is beautiful, but forming fucked up stereotypes like the ones described above and dating me based on these is unacceptable and disrespectful. 


c) I see a human. I am curious to learn about our cultural similarities and differences, but I don't judge them based on the colour of their skin or geographical location. I respect people for their personalities and strength of character, western/non-western is not an issue. We can joke and laugh about our cultures; we can watch Russel Peters and think his 'white people' and 'chinese store owner' imitations are hilarious, but negative stereotypes don't enter the picture.

P.S. The point about fetishization is a good one as well.


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## strawberryLola (Sep 19, 2010)

I also notice a trend with guys who are considered non-western from where I live, who don't really speak English too well who are considered traditional (whether they be: Persian, Latin, Asian, Hispanic, African), who seem to have an affinity for more Americanized women, just the opposite of Western men who prefer non-western females. Sometimes people find what's different and exotic to them, attractive. Other times, it's for other underlying reasons that I don't want to involve myself in.

In general, it (non-western preferences) doesn't bother me because I think, "Thank goodness!! Not my type anyway." 

Then I feel bad; I have my own biases too. I prefer guys who are more Westernized who do like Western women, because they share a similar attraction as I do. I find our conversations more stimulating and genuine for the very same reasons.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

I don't know if this was said elsewhere but I think this is just another case of "the grass is always greener on the other side"...at least until some dog pisses and shits all over it :tongue: (and no, that's not a shot at men)


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Women are women. Changing ethnicity only changes the language the crazy is spoken in.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

This guy and the women making calls to his radio show have quite a few things to say about this topic. And he delivers his message in a concise simple down-to-earth manner lot of guys will understand.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

vel said:


> This guy and the women making calls to his radio show have quite a few things to say about this topic. And he delivers his message in a concise simple down-to-earth manner lot of guys will understand.
> 
> YouTube - Tom Leykis- Foreign Women Critique American Women 3



It never occurred to me that my problems with women was because they were white chicks. It just...

Wow...


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## alice144 (Dec 31, 2009)

PhillyFox said:


> Over Christmas break after surfing from one subject into another, I've come across a rather interesting thread in a different forum:
> 
> Dating European women over American women - Topix
> 
> ...


 
Phillyfox, there are some things I could say about American men.

Right now I'm dating a Russian. He's okay. He has better relationships skills than the other losers I've been with.

I also tend to do well with biracial guys, because they tend to questions things more.

I'm going to make a blanket statement here, which is inevitably going to offend a lot of people. Get ready....

As a chick who isn't scared to talk back, I've taken a lot of abuse from so-called "macho" guys.
Some, not all, Eastern European and East Asian women are very repressed. Some, not all.

It's easier to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't insist on their own needs.


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## Peripheral (Jan 8, 2011)

alice144 said:


> It's easier to be in a relationship with someone who doesn't insist on their own needs.


I think that is the problem, on both ends.


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## sonicdrink (Aug 11, 2010)

Although it seems that a lot of this talk is about how immature people can be in relationships and with their views of the world, let me just hand y'all a little objective approach.

Now, in the overall issue of "Western" men/women, here's the thing, I think it's about culture and how one was brought up. Of course, you need common ground to build a relationship, but to both parties, you want to share new things, and if a lot of issues pressed build ground for new conversations, I would say this builds your understanding of each person and would strengthen the relationship.

There are stereotypes everywhere, and there are a lot of people who fit those stereotypes, but this should not be the basis to a meeting of every interest you meet. 

I am American, and I know plenty of girls who meet the drama/slut/abusive niche quite clearly, and I also know a lot of guys who meet the douchebag/abusive/lazy one just as easily. 

It's also about approach I would say. While some of you have commented about being docile, and beating off people with a stick, or being "foreign" and the same treatment, it's all about the background, and how the individual takes it. 

There are a lot of guys here that give you the same treatment because of your personality, and are less/more likely to chase because of it. (or you who does the chasing, whatever). I have heard from my friend in Armenia that guys just tend to be very adamant about the chasing. (however, I don't know many stories from other countries, but that's just an example)

I think what has happened here, is that people just tend to think it's easier to chase the "other" stereotype instead of facing that whatever you get is in fact, another human being. They want to take an easy route instead of just facing their own problems to begin with.

(I apologize for the lack of organization there ^  )


Oh, and here's a fun video to lighten the mood.


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## carson (Jan 21, 2011)

PhillyFox said:


> I'm curious about the opinions on all sides of the issue. Guys, do you think that Western women are worse marriage material than eastern European or Asian women? Girls, what do you think of Western vs. Eastern men? If you're from east Europe or Asia, what do you think of Western men and/or women?


While there is no relationship e.g. guy n gal go out for drink or whatever, basically sounding each other out, culture will play a large part in whether any deeper relationship forms. The parts of the their respective cultures will influence their expectations, and their intial understanding, of each other. As a more genuine, personal, intimate relationship forms, culture will have less and less to do with their connection until it becomes meaningless. How far the shift in perspective goes towards intimacy depends on the two people in the relationship.

After reading the forum link you give, the guy in question is expecting a particular type of cultural predisposition from a prospective mate. I don't know what this has to do with any East/West question. It seems unusual to expect every woman from Asia (or with "Eastern" appearance) to live their lives indentically as much as the guy with the initial complaint expects every American woman to aspire to a suburban housewife reality.

In 2011, if a person is in the position to start thinking east/west, you're about ready to give it up. It kinda sounds like the thought process of a tourist to me.


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## noz (Dec 7, 2009)

Since I don't think a sincere, articulate explanation of where my opinion comes from on this matter will be neither listened to nor appreciated, I'll let the ever-concise Lil Wayne say it for me:

"Man FUCK these bitches. I swear I care about everything BUT these bitches."

Thank GOD for Ukrainian and Japanese women, and any other culture where women won't categorically reject men on the basis of them being socially awkward, geeky INTs. I encourage INT women to try and find a similar recourse, cuz the situation is utter bullshit.


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## antiant (Jul 4, 2010)

In another thread, but oh so relevant:


noz said:


> I've thought about it just on the grounds that American women don't seem to give a flying fuck about mating with us INT men. They are apparently content to get used, fucked then chucked by pretty-boy SPs for some reason. *shrug*


Current thread:


noz said:


> Since I don't think a sincere, articulate explanation of where my opinion comes from on this matter will be neither listened to nor appreciated, I'll let the ever-concise Lil Wayne say it for me:
> 
> "Man FUCK these bitches. I swear I care about everything BUT these bitches."
> 
> Thank GOD for Ukrainian and Japanese women, and any other culture where women won't categorically reject men on the basis of them being socially awkward, geeky INTs. I encourage INT women to try and find a similar recourse.


What articulate explanation would that be? Let me guess, "Whoa-is-me-everybody-feel-sorry-for-me-all-the-women-date-bad-guys-I'm-a-nice-guy-therefore-I-deserve-a-girlfriend-because-I'm-nice-and-I-hate-women-because-they-don't-like-my-sad-and-pathetic-excuse-for-my-lack-or-low-self-esteem-therefore-I-must-project-a-sweeping-generalization-and-put-the-blame-on-an-entire-gender-race-culture-because-every-relationship-I-have-ever-been-in-has-been-the-womens-fault-it-is-never-me-I-don't-look-in-the-mirror-because-I'm-a-nice-guy-that-I've-convinced-myself-of-it-therefore-I'm-seething-with-predictable-hate-and-anger-in-my-futile-attempts-at-garnering-any-attraction-of-the-opposite-gender-that-I'm-now-going-to-listen-to-music-so-that-I-can-relate-to-the-mysognistic-undertones-that-align-and-only-fuel-my-hate-so-that-the-media-can-blame-the-music-and-so-help-me-god-I-hope-I-don't-get-a-gun-and-start-blasting-people-because-I'm-so-spiteful-that-now-I've-gone-mental-and-I'm-on-the-computer-as-the-hate-continues-to-grow-and-my-mental-state-is-taking-a-downward-spiral-into-being-unhealthy-and-it's-causing-some-detrimental-behavior-in-me-to-where-it-will-effect-others-but-I-don't-care-they-all-are-going-to-pay-for-this-insert-another-tragic-sitaution-caused-by-my-inability-to-recognize-that-maybe-the-problem-is-me."

*Yawn* Predictable, heard it all before. FUCK, I HATE PEOPLE LIKE THIS.


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## noz (Dec 7, 2009)

That..... was cool. And very thoughtful with all those hyphenated-inferences! but horribly off.

I can play along, though. How about this one for you, Dr Phil:

"God made me INTP for a reason; a big old super duper plan. It's not my fault I'm this way! I deserve my own pretty girl!"

However, I _am_ horribly insulted you think I would use a gun for my mass murdering homicidal rampage. Everyone knows explosives are more thorough and rack up larger kill counts. Loughner was a fucking noob.


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## topgun31 (Nov 23, 2010)

*Real Gender Issues*

I've been around the world. Lived in three continents. Been to Four. If you define "Western (American) women" as the typical Orange County ditsy, plastic, ignorant girl (yes they do exist), then yes there is a BIG problem. And there are girls out there that don't let men - even mature men - act like men. They're called Feminazis. But they are NOT the majority. And with globalization, you can find these kinds of girls anywhere now. And it's equally as annoying to have a clingy girl who's completely dependent on you. And it's the worst if they are closed-minded or single-minded.

Alot of this male (and female) anxiety is a result of consumerism. Specifically, a culture of consumerism. Advertisements and mass media mold guys and gals into their (profitable) version of masculinity and femininity. THIS is the heart of Western gender issues. 

Guys: instead of bickering about how Western women are, try to be men. But first, what is "manhood:"

Women, don't be turned-off against a website named "The Art of Manliness." These are well-written, mature-minded articles. Some of them were even co-authored by women. 

Creating and Consuming: How to Be Mature | The Art of Manliness
What is Manliness? | The Art of Manliness

"There are two ways to define manhood. One way is to say that manhood is the opposite of womanhood. The other is to say that manhood is the opposite of childhood.

The former seems to be quite popular, but it often leads to a superficial kind of manliness. Men who ascribe to this philosophy end up cultivating a manliness concerned with outward characteristics. They worry about whether x,y, or z is manly and whether the things they enjoy and do are effeminate because many women also enjoy them.

I subscribe to the latter philosophy. Manhood is the opposite of childhood and concerns one’s inner values. A child is self-centered, fearful, and dependent. A man is bold, courageous, respectful, independent and of service to others. Thus a man becomes a man when he matures and leaves behind childish things. Likewise, a woman becomes a woman when she matures into real adulthood.

Both genders are capable of and should strive for virtuous, human excellence. When a woman lives the virtues, that is womanliness; when a man lives the virtues, that is manliness."

And women (and men), if you are interested in the frustration that guys face - which is REAL - may I suggest the book, "Boys Adrift: The Five Factors Driving the Growing Epidemic of Unmotivated Boys and Underachieving Young Men," written by Leonard Sax, MD PhD
1. An overemphasis on teaching boys to read and learn math earlier than ever, when the average age when the AVERAGE boy's brain is ready to handle this is not at the kindergarten level.
2. The role of video games
3. Over-reliance on ADD meds (far more commonly used for boys than girls).
4. A lack of positive role models for boys, especially in popular culture, tv and other areas.
5. The possible impact of plastics and other toxin on the biochemistry of boys.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

PhillyFox said:


> Over Christmas break after surfing from one subject into another, I've come across a rather interesting thread in a different forum:
> 
> Dating European women over American women - Topix
> 
> ...


It sounds to me like that guy is probably a total dick. He goes on explaining how he's this "perfect catch" kind of guy, and complains that the women are all (insert rude judgmental adjectives). If he has any better luck with foreign women, it'll probably be because they can't understand the horribly rude things he's been saying about them!

You cannot define the entire Western civilization by a single subculture of overly cocky, shallow women. Women like this exist in every single country. Perhaps this guy was simply going about it the wrong way; where did he pick these girls up? Is he living in a particularly wealthy or aristocratic area where these qualities are more appreciated? It sounded like all of his dates had been with total strangers, which really makes you wonder how he went about finding and asking them out... maybe he wears a nice suit and pompously decides to grab the hottest blond he can find in the room by offering to take her to an expensive place (which sounds like the atmosphere he described). How can you expect your date to be anything more than shallow when you choose them based on appearance and bribe them with rich things?

It sounds like his problem is not with Western women, but with the _ideals _of Western aristocratic men like himself. The idea that you can buy yourself a wife through such bribery and social niceties is completely repulsive to most modern Western women who have any standards.


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## Slider (Nov 17, 2009)

I would prefer a traditional Asian woman. Unfortunately, I seem to be attracted to crazy blondes.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

I was married to a Eastern European man. They give you EVERYTHING you want. WAY more romantic than western football watching men. They are like a dream......

And they are really appreciative of the green card I can provide. :happy:


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## BeeInTheBonnet (Sep 15, 2010)

Ok, since I come from East Europe, let me throw in a few of my thoughts concerning the subject. Please read the whole of it, before you make your judgement .

I will make a gross generalisation here: in my opinion, eastern woman are considered more attractive by these guys because they try really, really hard. And they try really hard, because the sexist cultures they live in made them feel unworthy and obliged to perfect themselves into some feminine ideal.

In Poland, where I live, the status of women is really strange. It is a traditionalist, catholic country, with sexist attitudes still prevalent. You get sexist ads on the streets, sexist comments from the politicians on TV, sexist comments at the university. I seethed with anger when during one of my lectures the old prick behind the desk was telling us how feminists cannot be good linguists and how there is "female logic" and "male logic".

The reason for that is that Poland has never gone through the radical feminist revolution. Placing women on the job market was kind of necessity during the post-war time and it was encouraged by the communist government, which advised women to "get on tractors". During the communist regime (which lasted over 40 years), women became more independent, resourceful and better educated. But there was no "mental revolution" to follow these trends. There was also no reformulation of the masculine roles in the society (for instance promoting them as fathers etc). So despite the fact that women proved themselves able to do the same things men could do, the cultural stereotypes of a woman staying at home with children and taking care of the household (or better still, taking care of the household AND making money for the household) was still present. And it is present nowadays, more so than in other European and American cultures. Men never take parental leave in Poland when their children are born. There is no social obligation for them to help women taking care of the house and most men do not do a stroke of work at home. Women ARE objectified and considered inferior by many guys. When I worked as a shopgirl, objectifying comments, sometimes even bordering on sexual harrassment were nothing unexpected.

That mentality produced masses of women who are, in fact, well-educated, financially independent, strong and resourceful but terribly, terribly self-conscious. Our culture made these woman feel inferior to men, even on a subconscious level. That's why so many woman do their best to please the men, agree to some sexist behaviours or even promote them. Many of us restlessly try to follow the strange ideal of a domestic goddess, who is also a businesswoman, a great mother and a fanatastic fuck - to prove worthy. According to some survey I read a few years back, Polish women have one of the highest rate of body dismorphia. They are slim, well-taken after, well-dressed, but still feel ugly and imperfect. They are equally self-conscious about their work, intellectual capabilities and general achievements. During the job interiews, they propose to work for lower wages than men. They agree to do more and to fit more into men's expectations.

This, I believe, is the reason western men fall for eastern woman so easily. They are lured into this frantic perfection. We do not know our worth. We are these perfect wifes, who sex themselves up, go to work, earn money, then come home to clean and make a delicious meal for the hubby. A perfect cook, a perfect whore, a perfect worker, a perfect housewife. Elegant, yet low-maintanace. Educated, but will clean his shit-stains without a word of complaint. These are, of course, generalisations. But I see examples of that everyday. I was shocked when a few days ago, my well-educated, clever and otherwise lovely girl friend (a medicine student) told me with sheer disgust about some guy's girlfriend, who "didn't cook for him (can you imagine that???)".

I do not want to claim that all Polish men are sexist bastards or that Polish women are dormats. But some social tendecies are there nevertheless. Being a woman, I sometimes have to fight my own sexist thoughts instilled in my brain by my culture.


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## alice144 (Dec 31, 2009)

noz said:


> Thank GOD for Ukrainian and Japanese women, and any other culture where women won't categorically reject men on the basis of them being socially awkward, geeky INTs. I encourage INT women to try and find a similar recourse, cuz the situation is utter bullshit.





You probably spend too much time with preppy girls. Who tend to be the more extraverted and visible ones.

My fave bf ever was ENTP. Intelligence is sexy. Nerdiness is hot. And so forth. You're just not looking in the right places. Try chatting up that shy looking girl stocking up on tofu for her vegetarian stir-fry. I'm sure she'd be interested in someone like you.

Seriously, I gotta believe there's room for more diversity in our culture than this. Like you shouldn't have to go looking at foreign women just to find a romantic partner who accepts you as you are.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

alice144 said:


> You probably spend too much time with preppy girls. Who tend to be the more extraverted and visible ones.
> 
> My fave bf ever was ENTP. Intelligence is sexy. Nerdiness is hot. And so forth. You're just not looking in the right places. Try chatting up that shy looking girl stocking up on tofu for her vegetarian stir-fry. I'm sure she'd be interested in someone like you.
> 
> Seriously, I gotta believe there's room for more diversity in our culture than this. Like you shouldn't have to go looking at foreign women just to find a romantic partner who accepts you as you are.


You seem to be confusing yourself.
Good looks are sexy and hot.

The intelligence and nerdiness were simply other facets to the pretty guy you found yourself attracted to.


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## bengalcat (Dec 8, 2010)

PhillyFox said:


> I'm curious about the opinions on all sides of the issue. Guys, do you think that Western women are worse marriage material than eastern European or Asian women? Girls, what do you think of Western vs. Eastern men? If you're from east Europe or Asia, what do you think of Western men and/or women?


So, I'm just going to reply to the question directed at girls. What do I think of Western vs. Eastern men?

Well, I'm mixed asian + caucasian. Um.... I think the number of people I'm ever going to be in a relationship with is incredibly small, and they are invariably going to be people who don't toe the usual societal/cultural line anyway so.... Western vs. Eastern doesn't really come into it. 

I'm probably going to go more for a guy who doesn't resent women, doesn't imagine he owns my body and isn't riddled with machismo. I really think such a guy could appear from any country (countries/other mixed up background). I could make generalisations about other cultures and how sexist they are, but I don't know how well-informed my statements would be and honestly I'm not planning on building a life with a citizenry. I'm happy to be with just one weirdo who's true to themselves.

It's kind of exciting to just meet everyone not knowing what to expect.

I really loved your post @BeeInTheBonnet!


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## perennialurker (Oct 1, 2009)

Such generalizations of any large subset of people such as women or men or "Western women" or "American women" is entirely meaningless. People are ultimately individuals, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately their is no convenient short cut for finding a nice person. One cannot go after Eastern men because they are all good nor can one simply avoid all Western men because they are all bad. There is no substitute for getting to know people as individuals.


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## Spectrum (Jun 11, 2010)

perennialurker said:


> People are ultimately individuals, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.


I would say that you are wrong technically, but you are incorrect in the sense that there are so many sheeple. Although this article is over the top and wet with rants, I would have to say that it deserves a little head-nodding. Young women and teenage females in America do tend to bask in the pools of materialism. They often go for the classic "jock" or "asshole" as well. The writer of this post merely has misplaced anger, but his anger towards women in America does contain some legitimacy. After all, there is a 50/50 divorce rate. It's no surprise that they chase the wrong men, or that they handle themselves incorrectly. We can't demonize him to the fullest extent.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

BeeInTheBonnet said:


> I will make a gross generalisation here: in my opinion, eastern woman are considered more attractive by these guys because they try really, really hard. And they try really hard, because the sexist cultures they live in made them feel unworthy and obliged to perfect themselves into some feminine ideal.


I will confirm that this is true. There is also much higher pressure to marry. A lot of girls in my home country will try to marry before they are 25 because after that they are sort of 'spoiled goods'. One of my distant relatives was unmarried at age 32 and her own brother told her that her life is a waste because she has no husband or family. My mom married at 24 and the neighbors were already spreading rumors about her that she is a prostitute, because being un-married at 24 was not normal. Her best friend already had 2 kids and was divorced at that age. So women in eastern europe try very hard to get a man to marry and start a family. They get pressured to advertise themselves more as women and practically seduce the guys into relationships as early as possible.

But thing is that it is all advertisement done on the surface. This is what a lot of western men don't understand. They get sold on the advertisement. They think eastern european women are somehow very different from western women. Well they are not. You have same range of personalities there as you have over here. You have your materialistic girls, bitchy girls, nice and quiet girls, nerdy girls, party girls, religious girls, tomboy girls, artistic girls, slutty girls, and so on. So a guy looking for a woman from abroad is getting the same range of personalities you can get in USA only with some more surface advertisement thrown in at the beginning. It's just silly. There is also the potential that the woman will only make a show for the greencard but will actually disrespect the man and make fun of him behind his back. I've met a few girls from my ethnic community who married american men only to become disenchanted in american culture and their husbands and proceed to talk crap behind their backs just waiting for the moment they could get GC to divorce them (like I said, materialistic girls don't exist only in the western world).


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## Leon_Kennedy88 (Feb 27, 2011)

check this out :


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## Lauren Wolfe (Jun 23, 2011)

And all of this is another reason why I'm single. The only thing I should be expected to do just because I'm female is bear the children (provided that's what is wanted by both parties) because I'm the only one in the relationship who can physically pull off this feat. Sure, I should cook for my man, as long as he can cook for me too. I've got to work and come home tired as well! There should only be "roles" if that's what's agreeable for those involved. If someone wants to stay home and not work, guess what? The home is your job but that doesn't give the other the right to just throw clothes about and leave dishes everywhere like they have no home training. You're a child if that's the case and don't need an SO but a parent!


.....I totally didn't mean for this to be a rant. I actually only wanted to post a single sentence. But the subject of men being upset because they don't have slaves to wipe their asses for them just gets me a little heated. And I'm also aware that there are total douchebag women out there too. Bitches. I must stop before I piss someone off. I was fine and then I went and pissed _myself_ off!


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## ficsci (May 4, 2011)

I think in Western culture, well America at least, women are often expected to be Fe (loving, hugging, squeeing at babies, friendly & approaching) which is why I have such a hard time fitting in (-_-)

Err... but why are Asian women more "agreeable" than Western women? From a misogynist, racist view?

First of all there are also various stereotypes of Asian women, which certain are not always true, but you know, I suggest that people who view Asian women in such a positive light to look into it, because I've heard them portrayed negatively. For example, there's the whole "tiger wife"/strict, ambitious mom stereotype. Don't you hear about it from Asian kids? Also, I thought Westerners like women to be confident and ooze an air of sexuality, while, in Japan for example, shyness, cuteness, dutifulness, and (elegant) humbleness are the more culturally appealing traits.


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## WamphyriThrall (Apr 11, 2011)

PhillyFox said:


> I'm curious about the opinions on all sides of the issue. Guys, do you think that Western women are worse marriage material than eastern European or Asian women? Girls, what do you think of Western vs. Eastern men? If you're from east Europe or Asia, what do you think of Western men and/or women?


Wouldn't know, since I've never married. I'd say it's completely based on individual preference, and that MBTI plays some part in it. In my case, being an ethnic American, I prefer my own, as it's what I'm most familiar with. Knowing the culture (language, cuisine, religion, history, etc.) is a must. At the same time, I admire how American women seem more confident, independent, and assertive in comparison. Perhaps being an INTJ and Anglicized for the most part play a role in this preference, and the fact that many other ethnic Americans are new arrivals makes me feel more comfortable, being third generation on two sides and over fifth from the others. At the same time, I'm not sure how eager the would be to make an effort to fit in traditional cultural roles, or at least to compromise, and this worries me. I made up my mind long ago that my best bet would be to find someone of my ethnicity who is also as Americanized, even better if they're mixed race, so there's a nice balance of "East and West", because although I'm not Asian-American, our cultures do share many similarities. It's tough, because I'm pretty American in my values, and most of my family members and others from my generation are mixed out, but I know there are others out there like me. It's finding them that's the challenge. 



ficsci said:


> I think in Western culture, well America at least, women are often expected to be Fe (loving, hugging, squeeing at babies, friendly & approaching) which is why I have such a hard time fitting in (-_-)
> 
> Err... but why are Asian women more "agreeable" than Western women? From a misogynist, racist view?
> 
> First of all there are also various stereotypes of Asian women, which certain are not always true, but you know, I suggest that people who view Asian women in such a positive light to look into it, because I've heard them portrayed negatively. For example, there's the whole "tiger wife"/strict, ambitious mom stereotype. Don't you hear about it from Asian kids? Also, I thought Westerners like women to be confident and ooze an air of sexuality, while, in Japan for example, shyness, cuteness, dutifulness, and (elegant) humbleness are the more culturally appealing traits.


Collectivism vs individualism. The majority of the world is collectivist in culture, around ~70% if I remember correctly. It's just Northwestern Europe and the former English colonies that are primarily individualistic. Collectivist cultures, like those found across Asia, Africa, and the Americas place more importance on the group, whether it be the family, company, or nation, and think in terms of "we". This is one reason Asian females are seen as subservient-- they work tirelessly for their family's well-being. For those males who might think this is a one way ticket to paradise, think again. When you marry into a culture, you're now a part of the group and expected to contribute. It means having to sacrifice your own goals for the benefit of your family, including extended family. I have countless examples of friends and family members who had to drop out of college, give up career and military opportunities, "pay back" with remittances or letting relatives make decisions for them. 

This isn't to discourage anyone from looking outside their own culture, but to educate any who might be unaware of being a part of a collectivist culture might entail. It isn't as nice as many people make it seem, although it does have advantages. You can pretty much count on each other to help you out, and they expect the same from you. Again, the downside are the expectations placed on the individual, who might have to sacrifice their own desires to have a place in the group. It's something you'd have to experience to understand, and by marrying into such a culture, you'll learn fast. I just advise anyone who might be new to this to experiment first by dating or making friends with someone first to get a "feel" of what it's like. An immersion program would also be beneficial, as would traveling abroad. Either way, it's your decision. I have several Asian friends, and non-Asian friends who have dated or married Asian females, and subservient is the last thing I'd call them.


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## DustyDrill (May 20, 2011)

Personally, I seem to be attracted to women who aren't brought up in western culture. But it's not submissiveness or domestication I'm attracted to. It's their lack of unearned entitlement that gets me hot. Western women seem to think they are entitled without earning it (as a gross generalization, of course). You want a $9000 engagement ring? There's the door. I'm sure there's a sucker out there somewhere.


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