# I understand the whole premise of "Women shouldn't have to shave.", but...



## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Legs are my favorite physical part of a woman. My legs are pretty unhairy for a guy, so I just can't dig legs that are any hairier than mine. I do get it though, and I agree with it. Women shouldn't have to shave if they don't want to. But by not shaving (unless their legs are naturally unhairy) they're pretty much chasing me and millions of others away. Its about physical attraction. Physical attraction has nothing directly to do with sexism. I know that when I grow my beard long, or sometimes even my hair, I am essentially chasing millions of women away. I would rather be with women who can accept those things about me though. So I guess its the same for women with hairy legs. They can just stick to the men (or women) that dig their hairy legs. I'm just saying I'm not one of those men, and there's no reason for me to feel guilty about that. Just like I don't think a woman needs to feel guilty because she can't get past my long beard and long hair. I know I don't have long hair, or that long a beard atm, but I'm talking about most of the time.

Edit: Anyways, the point of this whole post is not to say women need to please me. The point is to say that I'm not gonna feel guilty for rejecting hairy legs, and that doesn't make me "sexist".


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

I didn't realise it was millions of womens jobs to attract you. You should be happy to attract one woman. I personally find long beards repulsive. But I don't expect men with them to find me attractive.

By the way, I don't like body hair either.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

chickydoda said:


> I didn't realise it was millions of womens jobs to attract you. You should be happy to attract one woman. I personally find long beards repulsive. But I don't expect men with them to find me attractive.
> 
> By the way, I don't like body hair either.


I didn't say it was millions of women's jobs to attract me. I'm just saying I'm not gonna feel guilty for rejecting hairy legs, and it doesn't make me sexist.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

chickydoda said:


> I didn't realise it was millions of womens jobs to attract you. You should be happy to attract one woman. I personally find long beards repulsive. But I don't expect men with them to find me attractive.
> 
> By the way, I don't like body hair either.


@chickydoda Triggered much?


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

@chickydoda Sorry, no hard feelings. I just hate this atmosphere of not being able to say anything without being viewed as "sexist", "racist", "ableist", "anti-LGBTQ", this, that, or the other thing, etc.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

I get sick of it too. Best to reject any and all "-ist" labels and go on your hairy merry way.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

Mm, even if some say that, I doubt most would stop even if they agree. 
I don't like monotonous chores like shaving either, there is no obligation to do it but I still will anyway. People will go through tedium and even pain just to feel good about their image.


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## passionate (Jan 7, 2017)

Self-grooming is a form of personal hygiene. It's really this simple.
I don't understand the fights and angry debates online, so I decided to avoid reading into these topics. Best decision I've made, can save you from a headache~


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## JennahHaeley/Sanstread (Jul 25, 2020)

Unshaving is pretty too. If it is dark. And one is intoxicated outta being in, or better yet, on crush.


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## Scoobyscoob (Sep 4, 2016)

I'd say learn not to sweat the unimportant stuff. I don't like hairy legs on a woman either and I'm certainly not sexist. In what universe is that considered sexist. lol


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

Ock said:


> Physical attraction has nothing directly to do with sexism.


Maybe that's true for you, but don't assume it is true for others.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

I honestly don't understand why women get so much in a huff when a man says "I prefer when women shave."
It's okay for men to have preferences. When they advertised 'Mrs. America' they showed a scene where that anti-ERA woman, the show was presented was shocked that that the student in front of her didn't shave her armpits, and the comment section was like a war zone with men, just innocuously saying they preferred shaved women and the women going ballistic at this.
Interestly, my fiance and I just had this conversation haha, because he doesn't mind either way, but I told him I'm absolutely shaving when we're together in person. I think it looks better, personally. It's all a matter of personal taste, and what some people/couples prefer, is honestly no one else's business.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

There's nothing wrong with not being attracted to women with unshaved legs, just like (as you said) there's nothing wrong with not being attracted to men with beards etc.

I've never heard of anyone having a problem with that--usually women have more of a problem with things like catcalling or sexual harassment--not "not attracting men when they don't shave."

Of course, a woman could also not find men who can't be attracted to women with unshaven legs attractive and that's okay too--just like it'd be okay for you to not find it attractive if a girl thought your beard was gross or asked you to shave it off.

The only time I can see it being a real problem is if a man is coming up to a random woman and commenting on how she could change her appearance to make herself more attractive to him. It's not because he doesn't like shaved legs--it's because he assumes that she wants to know about what he finds attractive or she wants his input on what she should do with her body to attract him. That's sort of closer to sexual harassment and unwanted male attention though than having a problem with "not attracting men."

If it's a relationship problem--like you start out dating a woman and she shaved, but now she doesn't, then I assume that's just something to bring up (similar to if it happened with a beard). It's up to you guys to figure it out.

The thing is a man or a woman can shave their legs and their beard if they want to--but they are probably not going to be persuaded to do so by behavior that seems entitled or invasive (just judging from my personal experience with men and women and what seems to irk them).

I don't think there's anything wrong with you not liking hairy legs. A lot of women don't like hairy legs either. And usually when that kind of beauty standard is criticized, I don't think it is some kind of blanket judgment on all people who like shaved legs etc. It's normal for people to be socialized to prefer certain gender performances, as it is also normal for people to have fetishes etc. It's fine so long as you're not forcing your ways onto other people,w which I think most women who criticize practices like shaving are taking issue with (the idea that they should be EXPECTED to always have shaven legs). But who knows--everyone is different.

There are plenty of men who are attracted to women who don't shave or who have unconventional hair styles etc. Not because they are obligated, but because they find them attractive. No need to feel guilty.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

dulcinea said:


> I honestly don't understand why women get so much in a huff when a man says "I prefer when women shave."
> It's okay for men to have preferences. When they advertised 'Mrs. America' they showed a scene where that anti-ERA woman, the show was presented was shocked that that the student in front of her didn't shave her armpits, and the comment section was like a war zone with men, just innocuously saying they preferred shaved women and the women going ballistic at this.


Honestly, if there was some photo of a guy with a beard or a tattoo, and the comment section was full of women whining about how they "aren't attracted to beards" or "tattoos," I'd probably want to tell them to shut the fuck up too.

The world doesn't revolve around what you're attracted to, and everyone else isn't particularly keen to hear about it everywhere. Sure, in some places--but in other places it's just creepy and obnoxious to start commenting on other people's bodies and saying what would make you more attracted to them. 

Though I guess it is Mrs. America, so perhaps the audience is conditioned to judge other people's appearances (since it's a competition for that). I never really got what those pageants were about, though some of the costumes are kind of cool.

@Ock I'm not saying that's what you are doing here--I do not believe it is. I can see here you are just talking about your own preferences and how they relate to other people's choices of appearance. I'm just saying that the only time I think it's really a problem is when someone isn't asking for critiques about how attractive they are--I don't think anyone really wants a stranger coming up to them and telling them to do things to their appearance so they will be more attracted to them (that's probably going to freak out a lot of women regardless of whether they shave or not). Which again--I'm not saying you're doing here.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

A few years ago a boyfriend asked me to _stop_ shaving my armpits. I know he's not the only man who prefers unshaven women. Nature boy/nature girl stuff.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

WickerDeer said:


> There's nothing wrong with not being attracted to women with unshaved legs, just like (as you said) there's nothing wrong with not being attracted to men with beards etc.
> 
> I've never heard of anyone having a problem with that--usually women have more of a problem with things like catcalling or sexual harassment--not "not attracting men when they don't shave."
> 
> ...


Yeah it's one thing for a guy to tell his girlfriend "I prefer..."
and a totally different thing for a guy to tell a random stranger "You should..."
I think men who say "I like women who..." is a middle ground statement, that's sometimes okay though.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

dulcinea said:


> Yeah it's one thing for a guy to tell his girlfriend "I prefer..."
> and a totally different thing for a guy to tell a random stranger "You should..."
> I think men who say "I like women who..." is a middle ground statement, that's sometimes okay though.


Yeah--I guess shaving or not-shaving seems sort of personal and intimate though. Imagine a guy coming up to you on the street and being like "I prefer push up bras on girls" or something "I prefer when girls wear high heels and mini skirts," because you're not wearing high heels or a push-up bra or a mini-skirt. 

It's just sort kind of not his business and it's quite a presumption that anyone would want to know.

When I was a teen, I had a guy ask me if I'd shave my legs for him. Just some random guy on the street. And I was like "no." I think he was really cocky because he was very conventionally good looking--muscular with a strong jaw, big blue eyes and dark hair. Idk if he thought the porno music would start playing and I'd like pull out a razor and be like "c'mere bb...let me make my legs smooth for ya" but NO! Geeze. I will not shave my legs because some random guy wants me to.

If it's your relationship partner then yeah--talking about things you are attracted to or whatever is normal.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Ock said:


> Legs are my favorite physical part of a woman. My legs are pretty unhairy for a guy, so I just can't dig legs that are any hairier than mine. I do get it though, and I agree with it. Women shouldn't have to shave if they don't want to. But by not shaving (unless their legs are naturally unhairy) they're pretty much chasing me and millions of others away. Its about physical attraction. Physical attraction has nothing directly to do with sexism. I know that when I grow my beard long, or sometimes even my hair, I am essentially chasing millions of women away. I would rather be with women who can accept those things about me though. So I guess its the same for women with hairy legs. They can just stick to the men (or women) that dig their hairy legs. I'm just saying I'm not one of those men, and there's no reason for me to feel guilty about that. Just like I don't think a woman needs to feel guilty because she can't get past my long beard and long hair. I know I don't have long hair, or that long a beard atm, but I'm talking about most of the time.
> 
> Edit: Anyways, the point of this whole post is not to say women need to please me. The point is to say that I'm not gonna feel guilty for rejecting hairy legs, and that doesn't make me "sexist".


Women shaving is only about 100 years old. As dresses began to become skirts and the lengths began to show more leg, and sleeveless dresses became a thing, an enterprising razor salesman convinced women to shave their pits and legs. 









The Sneaky, Manipulative History Of Why Women Started Shaving


Imagine straightening your skirt at a swanky bar and, glancing down, you take in the thick, month-long stubble on your legs. A kind of dark fuzz that doesn't trigger any panic or make you want to shift your yeti shins away from the light. That kind…




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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

I could tell stories on this but I'll put on limits here.

In response to women liking or not liking beards, I have a short one. However my view is in return I don't go for women with short beards. I guess this is pre-judging as I've never met any.

The other story is a girl I went with shaved not only below the knee but above. I told her I didn't go for that. It wasn't the visual aspect. It was that, ahem, I found it scratchy where smooth was preferred. (Bad me.)

Anyway when I asked her to stop she said it would grow back heavy and look bad. I don't recall what happened after that. When I asked her why she began shaving there, she said she and her girlfriend did it because it was recommended by speed cyclists.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Women shaving is only about 100 years old. As dresses began to become skirts and the lengths began to show more leg, and sleeveless dresses became a thing, an enterprising razor salesman convinced women to shave their pits and legs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I'm aware. But now my tastes have been unconsciously or subconsciously manipulated by that, and now I'm stuck.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

...And that folks is what the 9 in me helps me out with.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> teehee It wasn't that bad. I can handle it. But if you wanna know, I _think_ its like literally the first response on the first page.


To me that sounded more like the observations and claims that redpillers and PUA have made--that women tend to be able to choose more--that women can be discriminant, and that many men will not be desired by a lot of women. The idea that a man is lucky that any woman desires him sounds far more redpill or PUA than any kind of feminism that I've heard of. 

And to respond to your other posts, I'm a little bit drunk maybe but I am only irritated that this type of discussion comes back to blaming feminists, and no--someone else suggested that.

I just do get triggered with that because feminism is about having equal rights and I find it annoying that people can just attack feminism so easily and without much reason at all, it's almost become a bad word online. It doesn't take much to do that.

But yeah--I probably do get triggered about this sort of topic--I believe women should be able to do what they choose with their bodies. I believe that feminists who seek to support women having equal rights are a good influence. It makes me sad that people don't understand the significance of the feminist movement for women and our ability to have equal rights, and how online culture encourages people to blame feminism for pretty much anything they don't like.

I'm still not blaming you, but yeah--it makes me sad that people seem to treat feminism like a fair target. I've met far more sexists than I've met the fabled "evil feminist."


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> To me that sounded more like the observations and claims that redpillers and PUA have made--that women tend to be able to choose more--that women can be discriminant, and that many men will not be desired by a lot of women. The idea that a man is lucky that any woman desires him sounds far more redpill or PUA than any kind of feminism that I've heard of.
> 
> And to respond to your other posts, I'm a little bit drunk maybe but I am only irritated that this type of discussion comes back to blaming feminists, and no--someone else suggested that.
> 
> ...


Sounds fair.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

ENFPathetic said:


> @WickerDeer
> 
> There are feminists, who are generally reasonable human beings. And then there are psycho bitches who claim feminism but are really just psycho bitches. It was my bad to call them psycho feminists and I already apologised earlier in the topic. In fact, I should probably just edit that before there's any further misunderstanding.


The idea that "a man should be grateful to have any woman attracted to him" sounds more at home with PUA or redpill than it does with feminism.

And there may be some scientific evidence behind the statement, about women tending to be more picky than men when it comes to sexual partners.

It's just odd you'd immediately assume that it's somehow related to feminism when nothing about feminism has ever suggested this.

At the same time I understand where it's coming from because online there has been such an incredible smear campaign against feminism, and such a movement to demonize feminism and feminists that this type of response is completely innocent, and I am not trying to attack you for it, but it still makes me sad and irritated to hear. 

But yes--feminism is about women having equal rights--it is not about PUA concepts about the sexual availability of men vs. women. And no--I don't think you're a terrible person because you're saying the same sort of thing as many other people who also say sexist things have said.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> The idea that "a man should be grateful to have any woman attracted to him" sounds more at home with PUA or redpill than it does with feminism.
> 
> And there may be some scientific evidence behind the statement, about women tending to be more picky than men when it comes to sexual partners.
> 
> ...


I guess I thought what I thought because the person started out by calling me out because they thought I was expecting millions of women to try to please me, like male chauvinistic entitlement.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> I guess I thought what I thought because the person started out by calling me out because they thought I was expecting millions of women to try to please me, like male chauvinistic entitlement.


I think that it makes sense for some people to initially respond that way since a lot of times women do hear these types of things when men are expecting things of their bodies--whether it is chauvinists who judge their bodies for public attention (like Howard Stern) or personal experiences (like the one I described) where a man is acting entitled and invasive.

But I think there are a lot of reasons why someone would say that a man should be glad to have attention of a woman, and I think very few of those are really founded in feminism. I've never heard feminist scholars devote a lot of energy to asserting that men should be grateful for female attention. That tends to be something that men complain about and say to each other.

I can see why you felt that initial comment was assuming things about your intentions or your feelings, but I also think that she may have had personal experiences where people had acted entitled, and she'd seen them. So the reality is that even if you weren't being entitled, she may have seen that type of entitlement firsthand. But who knows--she'd have to answer that. I know I've seen that type of entitlement before, and I can see how someone might think of that even if that's not what you were intending. But it doesn't require feminism to experience that--just to analyze it. 

Everyone should know that it is okay to have sexual preferences--if anything feminism is probably the most responsible for helping to encourage that type of acceptance of preferences than any other movement I can think of. You always have agency over your own body and your feelings--if you don't want to have sex with someone for any reason, that is never challenged by feminism--feminism has championed the legitimacy of saying no and also knowing yourself and what you want.


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## ENFPathetic (Apr 3, 2018)

WickerDeer said:


> The idea that "a man should be grateful to have any woman attracted to him" sounds more at home with PUA or redpill than it does with feminism.
> 
> And there may be some scientific evidence behind the statement, about women tending to be more picky than men when it comes to sexual partners.
> 
> ...


Crazy is crazy, regardless of what tribe crazy claims to be from. They just tend to be loud and that leaves a lasting impression which is why whatever tribe they claim to be from usually ends up getting a bad rap by association. It's why I edited my post. It was a mistake for me to enable that assertion.

I'm not familiar with PUA concepts. The only crazy I've met claimed feminism. This was way back in college. I've read on feminism since then and I know that the "men are evil" narrative is not actually from feminism.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> I think that it makes sense for some people to initially respond that way since a lot of times women do hear these types of things when men are expecting things of their bodies--whether it is chauvinists who judge their bodies for public attention (like Howard Stern) or personal experiences (like the one I described) where a man is acting entitled and invasive.
> 
> But I think there are a lot of reasons why someone would say that a man should be glad to have attention of a woman, and I think very few of those are really founded in feminism. I've never heard feminist scholars devote a lot of energy to asserting that men should be grateful for female attention. That tends to be something that men complain about and say to each other.
> 
> I can see why you felt that initial comment was assuming things about your intentions or your feelings, but I also think that she may have had personal experiences where people had acted entitled, and she'd seen them. So the reality is that even if you weren't being entitled, she may have seen that type of entitlement firsthand. But who knows--she'd have to answer that. I know I've seen that type of entitlement before, and I can see how someone might think of that even if that's not what you were intending. But it doesn't require feminism to experience that--just to analyze it.


Its just difficult sometimes because it seems whatever people's intentions really are in regards to _any_ topic, someone will always get triggered, so I'll be like thinking "Now what!?"


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

@WickerDeer I'm to the left of things, but I tend to despise political correctness obviously. I try to lead by example with regards to my schizophrenia. I'll let people call me schizo. Or if they call me crazy I'll just say something like "Well I was before I was on my pills."


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> @WickerDeer I'm to the left of things, but I tend to despise political correctness obviously. I try to lead by example with regards to my schizophrenia. I'll let people call me schizo. Or if they call me crazy I'll just say something like "Well I was before I was on my pills."


I'm not really sure what "political correctness" has to do with this topic.

I suppose for a woman to say that a man "should be happy to attract just one woman" is not a politically correct thing to say, but I didn't see it as problematic--more so just someone trying to express a thought or idea.

Though, in my experience, online tends more towards bitching about feminism being the politically correct response, whereas defending or saying anything positive about feminism is more politically incorrect. It seems that even being a feminist and saying anything is treated as politically incorrect and discouraged in some places. Though I don't really see that as being as big of a deal in this thread--but perhaps it is. Idk.

Political correctness sure is funny. I don't mind it a ton though it can be annoying after a while. I think offensive language is more of an issue when it's done intentionally than on accident, and discussions on language are also useful and can be insightful, but ultimately people are still going to be limited by their education and experience in the world and that should be considered as well.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

WickerDeer said:


> I'm not really sure what "political correctness" has to do with this topic.
> 
> I suppose for a woman to say that a man "should be happy to attract just one woman" is not a politically correct thing to say, but I didn't see it as problematic--more so just someone trying to express a thought or idea.
> 
> ...


I guess I brought up political incorrectness because its another avenue that sometimes triggers people big time, since I just happened to be talking about people getting triggered sometimes even when no one is trying to trigger them. The shit just bugs me sometimes because I'm often not even trying to trigger people, but I simply speak my mind.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Wow, I succeeded in starting a thread that has gotten over 1K views. Crazy.


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Ock said:


> I guess I brought up political incorrectness because its another avenue that sometimes triggers people big time, since I just happened to be talking about people getting triggered sometimes even when no one is trying to trigger them. The shit just bugs me sometimes because I'm often not even trying to trigger people, but I simply speak my mind.


People are against political correctness until it relates to something they care about. If someone said something insensitive about mental illness, you'd want them to be politically correct. I could take a guess a number of politically incorrect things I could say about schizophrenia that you would likely find triggering. 

It's 'other people' who are too sensitive until it's us (everyone) that has something that they are sensitive about.


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## secondpassing (Jan 13, 2018)

Ock said:


> Wow, I succeeded in starting a thread that has gotten over 1K views. Crazy.


Gratz


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Roslyn said:


> People are against political correctness until it relates to something they care about. If someone said something insensitive about mental illness, you'd want them to be politically correct. I could take a guess a number of politically incorrect things I could say about schizophrenia that you would likely find triggering.
> 
> It's 'other people' who are too sensitive until it's us (everyone) that has something that they are sensitive about.


Well I guess a good question is: What exactly is political correctness? Is it being super sensitive only to the hot button issues of the day, or only to the accepted groups of people of the month? Or is it being super sensitive to _everyone_ ? Perhaps it doesn't have a clear meaning? Is it politically correct to say that it offends me to be personally blamed for things that other white men have done that I had nothing to do with?


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

I have kind of this dichotomy in my psyche when I accidentally offend people. On one end I have a part of me that genuinely wants to say something like "I'm really sorry I offended you. I really should be more sensitive. Is there anything I can do to make things better?" On the other end there's a part of me that wants to say something like "Oh fuck off you pansy! Maybe I should just visit you at your fuckin' throne in mamby pamby land just so I can fuck with you even more. It would be fun!" Idk, maybe that's because I'm a 6.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> I guess I brought up political incorrectness because its another avenue that sometimes triggers people big time, since I just happened to be talking about people getting triggered sometimes even when no one is trying to trigger them. The shit just bugs me sometimes because I'm often not even trying to trigger people, but I simply speak my mind.


I don't think you should assume that you triggered anyone--you'd have to ask the girl on the first page if you did. I didn't read it as she sounded triggered.

There's nothing triggering to me about the idea that there are men who don't find unshaved legs attractive. I have to admit that I disagree with some of your assertions (about there being so many men out there who won't be attracted) just because they really do not reflect my personal experience, but I sort of overlooked that. It's not like you would really know how most men react because you're not a woman with unshaven legs so I find it understandable that you might generalize your preferences onto other men.

Similarly, I can see how a woman might generalize onto you or other men that complaining about leg hair shows an entitled attitude, based on that woman's personal experience. 

As for what is political correctness--usually it's supposed to refer to how we talk about groups of people. However, I think it's more commonly used as criticism against speaking socially unpopular things.

I tend to view it more like the latter. So to me it seems like when a conservative lawmaker knows that saying he supports pro-choice or gay marriage or something is going to make him unpopular to his constituents, then supporting gay marriage would NOT be "politically correct." It would be politically correct to say you do not support gay marriage or abortion. But that's just my opinion and it differs from some definitions of "political correctness" which focus exclusively on being sensitive to groups of people and not so much about just saying what is socially acceptable.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> I have kind of this dichotomy in my psyche when I accidentally offend people. On one end I have a part of me that genuinely wants to say something like "I'm really sorry I offended you. I really should be more sensitive. Is there anything I can do to make things better?" On the other end there's a part of me that wants to say something like "Oh fuck off you pansy! Maybe I should just visit you at your fuckin' throne in mamby pamby land just so I can fuck with you even more. It would be fun!" Idk, maybe that's because I'm a 6.


Everyone accidentally offends people. I think it's just part of being human. People are easily offended.

Being a woman with unshaven legs can offend some people. 

I think you have to decide for yourself what you think is worth worrying over and what isn't. When it's time to think about whether your behavior is actually hurtful or when to say "suck it up buttercup."

I haven't seen you do anything particularly hurtful in the thread though, tbh. So I think maybe you're worrying a bit more than you really need to be.

I was irritated before, after drinking a bottle of wine, because I find it annoying when people blame everything on feminism. It's just something I see a lot online--I get that neither one of you was trying to do that, but it does get annoying the hundredth time etc. So I was just being a bit belligerent about expressing that.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

@WickerDeer I guess I just can't really shake the feeling that if I weren't to date a woman because her legs are hairier than mine that I'd be viewed as "close-minded", "sexist", "superficial", and all that shit, and those kind of labels are really unflattering and so much what I don't wanna be. But yet it remains that I have a strong leg fetish and I just can't get into hairy legs. I just don't wanna be labelled that shit because of physical attractions or lack of attractions that I have no control over.


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## Bellerixx (Jun 3, 2020)

Ock said:


> I guess I just can't really shake the feeling that if I weren't to date a woman because her legs are hairier than mine that I'd be viewed as "close-minded", "sexist", "superficial", and all that shit, and those kind of labels are really unflattering and so much what I don't wanna be.


Nah, I personally think that there's nothing wrong to have preference about it

Sometimes nowadays people make everything seems complicated to have personal opinions and some just labeling people easily. There's nothing sexist or close minded about it. Everyone has their own preferences, at least me thinking that ure not "sexist" or "close minded" because I have my own preferences about it too.

_mine is prefer shaved and clean

(I think I know what are you trying to explain since I've been stuck reading people's opinions about this kind of topic usually on twitter. Some kinda unflattering and make people insecure about their own preferences.)_


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## Roslyn (Aug 2, 2018)

Ock said:


> Well I guess a good question is: What exactly is political correctness? Is it being super sensitive only to the hot button issues of the day, or only to the accepted groups of people of the month? Or is it being super sensitive to _everyone_ ? Perhaps it doesn't have a clear meaning? Is it politically correct to say that it offends me to be personally blamed for things that other white men have done that I had nothing to do with?


I try not to offend people, but it's impossible to never offend anyone. I just think it's intellectually dishonest to write everything off as political correctness. People from all walks of life get offended by something.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> @WickerDeer I guess I just can't really shake the feeling that if I weren't to date a woman because her legs are hairier than mine that I'd be viewed as "close-minded", "sexist", "superficial", and all that shit, and those kind of labels are really unflattering and so much what I don't wanna be. But yet it remains that I have a strong leg fetish and I just can't get into hairy legs. I just don't wanna be labelled that shit because of physical attractions or lack of attractions that I have no control over.


Maybe you are being kind of critical to yourself. 

Though I doubt most women have harrier legs than you. Most women have less hairy legs than most men, though some people are particularly hairy or hairless. 

I don't think anyone would judge. Most women shave their legs anyway, and even with unshaven legs their legs are more hairless than men.

I mean, you could try to open up your mind if you feel badly about it, but otherwise I wouldn't worry about what other people think. I really don't think anyone's going to judge you for that, and if it's a woman with unshaved legs, well you guys probably wouldn't be a good match anyway.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

@WickerDeer Well just an fyi: my legs are pretty unhairy. teehee I've had people say that it almost looks like I shave them. So I _am_ probably gonna be pickier about leg hair on women.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> @WickerDeer Well just an fyi: my legs are pretty unhairy. teehee I've had people say that it almost looks like I shave them. So I _am_ probably gonna be pickier about leg hair on women.


_shrugs_ There are also probably plenty of women out there who prefer a man to have more body hair than them just as I am sure there are women who find body hair unhygienic on men or women. It's not really a big deal imo. Everyone has their preferences.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Ock said:


> Legs are my favorite physical part of a woman. My legs are pretty unhairy for a guy, so I just can't dig legs that are any hairier than mine. I do get it though, and I agree with it. Women shouldn't have to shave if they don't want to. But by not shaving (unless their legs are naturally unhairy) they're pretty much chasing me and millions of others away. Its about physical attraction. Physical attraction has nothing directly to do with sexism. I know that when I grow my beard long, or sometimes even my hair, I am essentially chasing millions of women away. I would rather be with women who can accept those things about me though. So I guess its the same for women with hairy legs. They can just stick to the men (or women) that dig their hairy legs. I'm just saying I'm not one of those men, and there's no reason for me to feel guilty about that. Just like I don't think a woman needs to feel guilty because she can't get past my long beard and long hair. I know I don't have long hair, or that long a beard atm, but I'm talking about most of the time.
> 
> Edit: Anyways, the point of this whole post is not to say women need to please me. The point is to say that I'm not gonna feel guilty for rejecting hairy legs, and that doesn't make me "sexist".


I'm sorry Ock, I didn't mean to make you feel bad or imply that only one woman would ever be attracted to you. What I meant was that you should feel satisfied if you end up in a relationship with the right one for you and she would be willing to shave her legs for you. I also meant that no guy deserves or needs fifteen women hanging off each of his arms.

A person would be lucky to have 1% of the population attracted to them. That is 75000000 potential matches. I'm sure that many people would be interested in you. It may even be as high as 10% of people. Anyway, it's more potential partners than any of us could ever want or need.

Just so you know, this has nothing to do with feminism or politics. I am probably more similar to you than you think, I am neither a republican or democrat, I consider myself to be somewhere in the middle.

I hope that clears things us, and we can continue as friends.

Edit: I may have skim read and prematurely gotten offended in place of women with hairy legs.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

chickydoda said:


> I'm sorry Ock, I didn't mean to make you feel bad or imply that only one woman would ever be attracted to you. What I meant was that you should feel satisfied if you end up in a relationship with the right one for you and she would be willing to shave her legs for you. I also meant that no guy deserves or needs fifteen women hanging off each of his arms.
> 
> A person would be lucky to have 1% of the population attracted to them. That is 75000000 potential matches. I'm sure that many people would be interested in you. It may even be as high as 10% of people. Anyway, it's more potential partners than any of us could ever want or need.
> 
> ...


No worries.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

I prefer women with shaved legs too 
I don’t think that makes me a sexist I’m a chick. And if it does I don’t give a fuck because doubtful I’m going to fuck around with any chick that actually gets offended by preferences anyways. 

But I also don’t ever lick a dudes nut sack that isn’t shaved either. I’m an equalist 🤣😉


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## karixx (Nov 28, 2021)

Such situations are widely discussed today. It is a well-known subject in the 21st century. Many girls have begun to support the idea that girls should not shave. I look at this subject skeptically. I am not against girls who do not shave. Everyone has their rights and can do whatever they want with their lives. But I am part of the circle of girls who do not feel comfortable having body hair. I hate to have at least a few invisible threads on my body. That's why I do laser hair removal ealing to get rid of hair completely. Very often, I received the question why do such procedures and if the hair will become fashionable? For me, the hair will not be something extraordinary, and I will never regret getting rid of hair completely) I am not interested in trends.


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## arcticfox (Aug 27, 2019)

It's really simple.

Every person (of either sex) is certainly free to shave or not, to pick what they wear, to wear (or not wear) make up, etc. Make whatever choice you want that makes you happy. 

That being said, you have to accept that every such choice you make is going to attract some and repel others. Just as you have a right to dress/groom yourself as you wish, others have a right to be attracted to what they're attracted to. Some guys like women with a bunch of body hair. Most don't. If you're a woman who chooses not to have that's fine, just keep in mind that you're narrowing the selection of guys who are going to find you attractive physically. That goes both ways, of course. Some women dig beards. Some don't. They're completely free to have their preferences too, and a man who either grows or shaves his beard is likewise going to impact who is attracted to him and who isn't.

So far so good, right?

Where it goes off the rails is when people start getting all offended that people aren't attracted to them as a result of these choices. None of us are entitled to the affections of others who aren't interested. You don't get to go around shaming people who aren't buying your particular look. I'm a big chubby dude with no facial hair. That isn't every woman's cup of tea. I can either whine and rage about it or I can accept that, if I were single, I'd have to accept that not every woman would be an option for me when it comes to a prospective date. 

Welcome to life.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

passionate said:


> Self-grooming is a form of personal hygiene. It's really this simple.
> I don't understand the fights and angry debates online, so I decided to avoid reading into these topics. Best decision I've made, can save you from a headache~


Is it gross for men to have hair then?


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

A guy in my class once looked at me and said "no man will want to marry you if you keep that up" and pointed at the slight stubble on my calfs from not shaving for like one day and being pale white with black hair. 

In retrospect i wouldn't marry anyone who thought like that so he wasn't entirely wrong. 

I do shave usually but i do think it's BS that women are expected to remove hair from the largest parts of their body.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

Ock said:


> Legs are my favorite physical part of a woman. My legs are pretty unhairy for a guy, so I just can't dig legs that are any hairier than mine. I do get it though, and I agree with it. Women shouldn't have to shave if they don't want to. But by not shaving (unless their legs are naturally unhairy) they're pretty much chasing me and millions of others away. Its about physical attraction. Physical attraction has nothing directly to do with sexism. I know that when I grow my beard long, or sometimes even my hair, I am essentially chasing millions of women away. I would rather be with women who can accept those things about me though. So I guess its the same for women with hairy legs. They can just stick to the men (or women) that dig their hairy legs. I'm just saying I'm not one of those men, and there's no reason for me to feel guilty about that. Just like I don't think a woman needs to feel guilty because she can't get past my long beard and long hair. I know I don't have long hair, or that long a beard atm, but I'm talking about most of the time.
> 
> Edit: Anyways, the point of this whole post is not to say women need to please me. The point is to say that I'm not gonna feel guilty for rejecting hairy legs, and that doesn't make me "sexist".


Oh boy, when I said something similar to this I was labelled a misogynist, lol. Not liking hairy legs isn’t sexist. The question is, what is it about what you’ve said that _is_ sexist? I don’t know.

For me personally, a little hair on the arms and legs are fine, but dark hairs have a lot of definition and are indeed unattractive.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Celtsincloset said:


> but dark hairs have a lot of definition and are indeed unattractive.


Woot woot I'm quite honored to be in the women you don't find attractive category. Is this when i give my award acceptance speech?


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Celtsincloset said:


> Oh boy, when I said something similar to this I was labelled a misogynist, lol. Not liking hairy legs isn’t sexist. The question is, what is it about what you’ve said that _is_ sexist? I don’t know.



Also, just out of curiosity, were you labeled a misogynist because you don't like hairy legs or was it from getting together with other men to discuss what is and isn't sexist and implying that no part of what they've said could reasonably be seen as sexist because you can't see it that way? 

I'm loving men getting a together to discuss how nothing they've said was sexist without asking or listening to women though. It's a lot like observing billionaires flying private jets to Davos to discuss how to remove climate change and poverty while evading taxes. Thanks for that.


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## Whippit (Jun 15, 2012)

In my part of the world there's more than a few ladies running around au natuaurale, leg hair, armpit hair, sideburns, undefined eyebrows, a bit o' mustache. It's not something that I'm super into, but I don't dislike it either, I find it pretty intriguing.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Whippit said:


> In my part of the world there's more than a few ladies running around au natuaurale, leg hair, armpit hair, sideburns, undefined eyebrows, a bit o' mustache. It's not something that I'm super into, but I don't dislike it either, I find it pretty intriguing.


I wore a fake mustache as a joke for a day. I got hit on a lot. Turns out some of us can rock Colonial Sanders esq facial hair. I kinda wish I could grow it.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

daleks_exterminate said:


> Woot woot I'm quite honored to be in the women you don't find attractive category. Is this when i give my award acceptance speech?


Why does it matter whether or not I find someone like this, hairy legs and all unattractive?


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

daleks_exterminate said:


> Also, just out of curiosity, were you labeled a misogynist because you don't like hairy legs or was it from getting together with other men to discuss what is and isn't sexist and implying that no part of what they've said could reasonably be seen as sexist because you can't see it that way?
> 
> I'm loving men getting a together to discuss how nothing they've said was sexist without asking or listening to women though. It's a lot like observing billionaires flying private jets to Davos to discuss how to remove climate change and poverty while evading taxes. Thanks for that.


I'm sorry.

What _sounds_ sexist, isn’t necessarily what _is_ sexist. Sexism isn’t like racism, which occurs upon racial awareness, IMO. Gender awareness isn’t any big of a phenomenon, and today with diversity practices women are getting higher position jobs and more money that is heading towards equaling with men; so where does sexism exist for men who aren’t stupid enough to objectify women, on this forum? I’m not objectifying, but if it sounds like I am indirectly, it still doesn’t mean I am sexist because I am not objectifying women; that wasn’t my intention nor purpose.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Celtsincloset said:


> Why does it matter whether or not I find someone like this, hairy legs and all unattractive?


As an entp I enjoy being disliked by randos more than most. It amuses me.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

I have an idea. Maybe women can all be brought to wear a burka. Then all men will find them attractive as leg hair will not be any factor to consider. That should work!


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## arcticfox (Aug 27, 2019)

daleks_exterminate said:


> I have it on pretty good authority that literally no one who could just zap off hair they didn't want would take the dull, time consuming task of shaving it off.


Maybe he does... But if he can't stand the smell of all that burnt hair...


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Celtsincloset said:


> Don't be surprised if people fight for their innocence.


? That's always preferable.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

arcticfox said:


> Maybe he does... But if he can't stand the smell of all that burnt hair...


He's been around jar jar. He's smelled worse.


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## arcticfox (Aug 27, 2019)

daleks_exterminate said:


> He's been around jar jar. He's smelled worse.


Touche'


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

arcticfox said:


> Touche'


Hmm...

On one hand i like winning. On the other I'm sad this battle is over


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

daleks_exterminate said:


> ? That's always preferable.


👏👏👏👏 Still waiting for someone to tell me why I'm wrong. But I don't have my hopes up.


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## arcticfox (Aug 27, 2019)

daleks_exterminate said:


> Hmm...
> 
> On one hand i like winning. On the other I'm sad this battle is over


There will be others. Just begun, this war has.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Celtsincloset said:


> 👏👏👏👏 Still waiting for someone to tell me why I'm wrong. But I don't have my hopes up.


Articfox had better banter so the dopamine train of caring about proving you wrong left my ADHD station.

You said you've been accused of being sexist when you're not. Yet as you've implied that's an ongoing issue and the women who say it are wrong.

...so in light of that..... idk what you actually hoping for from this interaction? 🤣🤣🤣

I do like arguing and banter, but that's a bit different than trying to convince someone that my perspective which is "perhaps if someone is often accused of something they find inaccurate asking more and trying to understand instead of debating them might be helpful, as is admitting that people have internal biases and maybe you're experiencing that would be something to consider, and that person likely least of all should be giving reassurance that someone else is not being what the first person was accused of when they seem to not understand it themselves, hilarious though that may be " is something that may be worth considering. How is that an accusation that I personally find you sexist or something? I didn't say that. You haven't offended me personally or pissed me off *other than when you used here instead of hear. *That did annoy me.

I gave you an alternative perspective hypothetical as you seem to find things outside of your immediate perspective difficult. I never claimed it was my belief or an accurate assessment of you, but i can give that if you'd like it.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

daleks_exterminate said:


> Articfox had better banter so the dopamine train of caring about proving you wrong left my ADHD station.


I seriously don't care about that. Racism, sexism, they're important issues to me and I love to seek the truth, especially when apparently I'm in the wrong. You don't know anything about my character, and if you did you would sheathe your own biases. So don't go criticising me right off the bat, and say it's banter before running off with your tail between your legs; so I'm sorry if I don't take this in a jovial manner, because it's important to me. People have their own internal biases, no doubt, so I'm not judgmental about that, but criticizing people is a different story. Like there's some issue about me that I need to fix; that's so dumb. I won't even get an apology from you; you're just swinging your broken sword around.



daleks_exterminate said:


> You said you've been accused of being sexist when you're not. Yet as you've implied that's an ongoing issue and the women who say it are wrong.


I was 15. And I don't think the lady was 100% right either.

Edit: I think it's safe to say you thought there was sexism, got upset and criticised me, but there didn't end up being it, (I also I gave my own understanding of sexism, which hasn't been proven wrong) so you criticised me for nothing, and are continuing for no good reason. Is this right?

If I didn't have the words to defend myself, what would you be considered doing? Bullying your point of view across?


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Celtsincloset said:


> You don't know anything about my character, and if you did you would sheathe your own biases. So don't go criticising me right off the bat, and say it's banter before running off with your tail between your legs


Ironically I didn't claim to, and yet here you are interpreting my character so let's go there. If i were running off with my tail between my legs please explain why I'd exert the energy to run back and explain my thought process of doing so to you first. make it make sense, because you are not using consistent logic.





> ; so I'm sorry if I don't take this in a jovial matter, because it's important to me. People have their own internal biases, no doubt, so I'm not judgmental about that, but criticizing people is a different story. Like there's some issue about me that I need to fix; that's so dumb. I won't even get an apology from you; you're just swinging your broken sword around.


Ah so being critical is bad, but calling people cowards and liars isn't being critical or ? That's another quaint world view. I'd love to hear a logical explanation for that.

Waving a broken sword seems pretty dangerous and not very cowardly so yet again.... make the consistency make sense, please. And I'd love to apologize to you, just as soon as you give me a rational argument why i owe you one, or why you're upset right now. Using your own previous assessment to ock that indicates that as i cannot see it and don't have the same view of this as you I am right. If you can prove to me that you are in fact correct and that my intentions were malicious and not only am i the world's most daring coward jumping about fire dancing with flying pieces of broken sword splintering us all but that you know my intentions more than I do.... (remember, that thing you thought mattered more than anything earlier and that other people's perspectives didn't matter as much your intentions not two pages ago?). 

So, you want to be treated in a way that you do not extend to others, but you care deeply about fairness and being fair and I should be the one to apologise to you?



> I was 15. And I don't think the lady was 100% right either.


was that recent? If so I absolutely will apologise for expecting someone who isn't yet at the age of having a fully developed frontal lobe and prefrontal cortex to be consistent, and less emotional and more reasonable. If you're young those things are much more difficult and that's an unreasonable expectation on my end and I am sorry for that.

If you are not young and do have a fully developed frontal lobe and prefrontal cortex, I'd rather be the cowardly splinter sword dancer than the "all knowing all discerning one" who believes he alone knows the intentions of others and unable to accept being treated the same way he treats other people prancing about like a religious proselytizer so caught up in being right he didn't stop to consider that if god is the Mayan god of corn and entry to heaven is gained upon amount of corn consumed while alive that perhaps none of this actually matters.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Celtsincloset said:


> Edit: I think it's safe to say you thought there was sexism, got upset and criticised me, but there didn't end up being it, (I also I gave my own understanding of sexism, which hasn't been proven wrong) so you criticised me for nothing, and are continuing for no good reason. Is this right?
> 
> If I didn't have the words to defend myself, what would you be considered doing? Bullying your point of view across?


I've simply responded to you and treated you as you did to other people, so it's interesting that you view that as bullying and silencing.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Ock said:


> Basically the point of this was that I don't wanna be called out by certain "feminist" people for being turned off by hairy legs on women because I actually can't help what my attractions or turnoffs are. And sorry @WickerDeer , but I didn't know a better way to word it than "certain feminist people".


This is all generic and not directed at you personally, but maybe to men who fear they will be called sexist for their sexual preferences:

Anyone who shames you for your consensual sexual/romantic preferences is probably kind of a jerk. 

Although it would depend on the situation, because there are a lot of situations in which it would be considered invasive or obnoxious to expect someone to acknowledge or address one's sexual/romantic desires (especially if it relates to their own body and you are not dating or they didn't show any suggestion of consenting or soliciting to sexual/romantic interactions with you).

Same example as before: Say I don't like the look of men who have tattoos on their foreheads or throats. That is fine. But that doesn't mean I need to go up to every man who has a tattoo on his throat and inform him or berate him about why he has a tattoo there, and how unattractive that is.

If I took a soapbox at a park and put on loud speaker a bunch of whining about men who have tattoos on their necks, and how gross they are, and how it's all the fault of idk...men having equal rights or something, then I could expect some blowback--not because no one believes I shouldn't be able to have sexual preferences, but because I'm making my romantic/sexual preferences everyone else's problem and business, when they didn't even ask about it.

That also goes for just making unsolicited comments to people about their appearance. That's usually what people take issue with--because it's rude.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

I have reported myself just in case you are somehow correct. I don't think you are, but I do not want to be a reason anyone feels unsafe here. still, it is fascinating that you had issues understanding others perspectives towards you but don't like being treated how I perceived that you treat others based on what you said and how you responded to people throughout this thread Perhaps I've gotten this all wrong. Maybe we both have. I don't know. I have no ill will towards you @Celtsincloset but I don't understand the inconsistency and seemingly hypocricy I do find that frustrating. I will stop responding because it seems you didn't like my way of handling this and I don't want to escalate that further when it seems you don't get the point I was trying to make and your reasoning doesn't make sense to me at all. 

so I guess we are at an impasse anyway.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

daleks_exterminate said:


> And I'd love to apologize to you, just as soon as you give me a rational argument why i owe you one, or why you're upset right now.


The only thing upsetting me is your ignorance. Here:



daleks_exterminate said:


> So even if it's not my intention to be a rude asshole, i do listen to people when they tell me i did something that was rude as that also matters and not just my experience....
> 
> so idk maybe work on that?


Assuming that I need to work on listening to people, criticism #1. You have a judgment of me, disproving the first thing you said in the above post _('I didn't claim to know anything about your character')_.


daleks_exterminate said:


> Articfox had better banter


#2



daleks_exterminate said:


> You haven't offended me personally or pissed me off* other than when you used here instead of hear.*


#3


daleks_exterminate said:


> I gave you an alternative perspective hypothetical as you seem to find things outside of your immediate perspective difficult.


Again, are you really right? You don't know, don't you? It's unwarranted criticism #4

Really, nothing to apologise for when you are most likely wrong on these criticisms about me? This is what I meant by swinging your broken sword around, and should I add, blindly, ignorant to the hurt you cause / try to cause.



daleks_exterminate said:


> If you are not young and do have a fully developed frontal lobe and prefrontal cortex, I'd rather be the cowardly splinter sword dancer than the "all knowing all discerning one" who believes he alone knows the intentions of others and unable to accept being treated the same way he treats other people prancing about like a religious proselytizer so caught up in being right he didn't stop to consider that if god is the Mayan god of corn and entry to heaven is gained upon amount of corn consumed while alive that perhaps none of this actually matters.


You started it.

By cowardly, and running with your tail between your legs, that is about the hurt/wrongs your ignorant criticisms cause. Because you don't know about it, you're happy to say it's just a bit of banter, and not think about it again. It's wrong, and I hate it.

If this is your banter, it doesn't hit me at all.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

@Celtsincloset 

that is one perspective and certainly not how I view this exchange at all.



It's interesting that experiences, world view, etc influence so much that you see yourself as completely in the right and I don't see this the same at alllllllllll. 

so like I said, I reported myself in case you actually are an innocent martyr and I've defiled you as i'm open to hearing other's perspectives and considering them and perhaps I've missed something and that is the case. As i've said I don't think so but want to at least consider that maybe I am not infallible. I do suggest trying it sometime, but in the meant time I am going to block you because you see me as a bully and I view you as an inconsistent hypocrite and none of this is changing by our interactions. 

If somehow you do turn out to be in the right I will probably need to go to a lot of human behaviour classes to understand because as of now I do not. however, I do have to at least consider it's possible. I don't see myself as a martyr as you seem to, but I do like that I consider other perspectives which you do not seem to from my perspective. so we are all fascinating and this has been bizarre. have a good life and on my end I hope you find logical consistency just as on your end, I'll presume that you hope I find my heart along with dorthy and toto and the like. 

so anyway this has been a bizarre experience. adieu.

sorry @Ock for whatever the fuck just happened to your thread as well.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

daleks_exterminate said:


> sorry @Ock for whatever the fuck just happened to your thread as well.


I have no idea.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I just wanna say--as someone who usually doesn't shave and has been compared to a fat sasquatch woman...h8rs gonna h8










(also I'm joking--I didn't think @Ock was hating on people. There is nothing wrong with preferences as long as people are just still respectful to others)

Edit--this one is better:










(I'm sorry--I just find these videos/gifs funny 😂)


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

All G. No hard feelings.


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## mug_cake (Jul 18, 2021)

I do shave my legs as often as I feel necessary and don't really find the frequency that my peers choose to shave their legs very interesting. I think Wickerdeer summed up my feelings well enough that I don't really need to add anything else.


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## Celtsincloset (Feb 17, 2014)

Men usually have standards for women, and vice versa, women have standards for men—whatever would make the other more desirable. For most couples, a woman shaving the arms and legs, without a doubt would be countered by a desired quality, of equal effort, the woman has of the man. And the qualities desired or not really cared about, vary between people. There is also a negotiation between these standards, when people who interact with each other become interested.

If I began to know a woman who didn’t shave her limbs, and I actually did date someone like that in the past, I could say, well it’s sort of fine because I love your personality, so please just shave for me _but only less often_. And she could say to me, well, as long as you're continuing to help put fuel in the car, being nice to my mother, and going out to those parties with me I guess we could make an agreement there. Oh, and I almost forgot; limit your beer drinking, stop your gambling, and stop watching your MMA and boxing in the living room.

These qualities/standards of individuals are part of life. Everyone has their likes and dislikes, AND the visual nature of men, means that more men rather than less men will find basic grooming standards important and a like; and a big dislike if it’s ignored (it’s a visual thing, not necessarily social/cultural thing), BUT, as I said there’s a negotiation period as well. (I hope for some.)

So from my point of view, this is fine. For both sexes. My question is, why (or when) isn’t this fine?


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Judging by the large number of combs such as this found in York, personal grooming played a surprisingly large part in everyday life of Vikings.

A wonderful account by a 12th century writer, John of Wallingford, details the consequences, apparently the incoming Danes...

'...caused much trouble to the natives of the land; for they were wont, after the fashion of their country, to comb their hair every day, to bathe every Saturday, to change their garments often, and set off their persons by many frivolous devices. In this matter they laid siege to the virtue of the married woman, and persuaded the daughters even of the noble to be their concubines'.

Taken from:


http://www.historyofyork.org.uk/themes/viking/viking-male-grooming





So i guess I'm now wondering why men don't groom more as that's how you steal married women and upperclass wenches.

Shouldn't men be the ones shaving during their every Saturday bath?


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## greyskies01 (Aug 23, 2018)

Feel free to reject others based on nonsensical opinions but don't be surprised when others do the same to you.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

greyskies01 said:


> Feel free to reject others based on nonsensical opinions but don't be surprised when others do the same to you.


Its not an opinion; its physical attraction. And no I won't be the least bit surprised when others reject me for lack of physical attraction. Ah fuck it. Didn't I already explain this shit?


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

More than one previous partner wanted me to keep my chest hair and groin hair trimmed as personal preferences and it was no trouble for me. I would just move on if someone called me sexist because of my personal preferences. There should be a little give-and-take, but you can't force someone to be someone they are not.


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## greyskies01 (Aug 23, 2018)

Ock said:


> Its not an opinion; its physical attraction. And no I won't be the least bit surprised when others reject me for lack of physical attraction. Ah fuck it. Didn't I already explain this shit?


Your physical attraction is an opinion.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

greyskies01 said:


> Your physical attraction is an opinion.


 I have to agree with Ock. I think opinion is more of a logical choice based on the information I have. Attraction is based on primitive drives. I am attracted to many things I find completely illogical. There are many times when my physical attraction conflicts with my opinion of someone or something. For instance, I have a fetish that finds smoking attractive, but it is my opinion that thinks smoking is unhealthy. I haven't dated smokers. It is my opinion that my opinion is something different from my attraction.


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

greyskies01 said:


> Your physical attraction is an opinion.


No its not. It takes cognitive decision making to form an opinion. Physical attraction doesn't take cognitive decision making, and is instinctive and primal. But nice try trying to make it seem like its my fault I have instinctive and primal physical preferences that I have no control over. Should I just _pretend_ I'm attracted to things I'm not? Maybe if I "open my mind" enough I can just will myself to be bisexual while I'm at it as well?


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## Flabarac Brupip (May 9, 2020)

Ock said:


> Maybe if I "open my mind" enough I can just will myself to be bisexual while I'm at it as well?


Hopefully he's not one of those ignorant or stupid Christards that believes gayness is always a choice, because then maybe he'd actually believe I have a choice. Disclaimer: "one of those ignorant or stupid Christards" isn't referring to _all_ Christians.


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## Mark R (Dec 23, 2015)

Ock said:


> Maybe if I "open my mind" enough I can just will myself to be bisexual while I'm at it as well?


It will double your chances of getting a date.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Celtsincloset said:


> So from my point of view, this is fine. For both sexes. My question is, why (or when) isn’t this fine?


It isn't fine when it's treated like an entitlement.

Like yeah, if you're in a relationship with a woman, it's fine for her to have some rule you always pay for gas or whatever (though this is odd sounding to me, because I've never ever dated a guy who always paid for gas--most women also work full time just like most men, and they also put gas in the car).

But it's different if a woman just expects every man to always buy all the gas, to the point that women should never have to buy gas in any situation--just some random guy at the gas station is standing around smoking a cigarette or something and a lady is like "heeey BB Y don't you put some gas in my car--that's what real men do." And that's just considered normal, because he's a random guy standing around, so of course, he should always put gas in anyone's car.

That would be the equivalent of a woman standing outside and being told that JUST BECAUSE she exists, she should have shaved her legs. Which does sometimes happen to people who deviate from beauty standards, because people are just dum a-holes sometimes.

Essentially, everything is fine unless you're being an a-hole to random people who never even wanted to have a relationship with you, you are just mad that they do things that you don't find sexually attractive, because you believe that they should care what you like.


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