# Creepy Cultists



## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

Those Pod'Lair people say they are coming back.
Maybe they won't, but in case they do.....

I've seen a few people express interest in them. 
I just wanted to say, these Pod'Lair people are cruising 
for cult members. They want to control/manipulate
others. Don't listen to them, no matter how
interesting their theories sound to you.

Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to be someone's mom.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

Let people do as they please. If you have half a brain, you'll pull on the reins once you see their site. That @Adymus guy has some valid points, but imo nothing that can't be rectified using existing type theories and common sense. That "reading" thing they're doing, for example, is nothing more than what everybody does (or at least should be doing). It took me a couple of sentences to "read" him as an INTP - which he later confirmed. That tells me I've got the tools I need already, and the Pod'Lair thing is redundant for my needs and therefore unnecessary. What you choose to use the tools for is up to you, and as long as you don't get more messed up by joining a group than you were before, then there's really no harm done, right?


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

zynthaxx said:


> If you have half a brain, you'll pull on the reins once you see their site.


I have a whole brain, have seen their site and still disagree with them.
I feel as though they portray themselves as an authority figure despite saying so many illogical things.
One of the main themes in their posts is that if you do not believe in what they say, you are stupid.
They say if you follow them you are 'open-minded' and congratulations if your opinion of your type is the same as theirs.
They say their system is based on natural law, however their posts pretty much go against natural law.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

pc3000 said:


> I have a whole brain, have seen their site and still disagree with them.
> I feel as though they portray themselves as an authority figure despite saying so many illogical things.
> One of the main themes in their posts is that if you do not believe in what they say, you are stupid.
> They say if you follow them you are 'open-minded' and congratulations if your opinion of your type is the same as theirs.
> They say their system is based on natural law, however their posts pretty much go against natural law.


Sorry, English isn't my native language, so perhaps I was unclear. The point I was trying to make, was that it's enough to see their site to stop and think - and of course the result of the thinking would be something along the lines of what you wrote.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

So I looked up what Pod'Lair is and it does sound new-age cultish. That's not really a problem to me as long as they use it as an excuse to meet up to have fun/get smashing drunk like Scientologists do but I'd be worried if they were more like Heaven's Gate. :shocked:


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

It's the complexity of his system that makes me distrust him. The fact is, you can read _anything_ in _anything_ if there are enough variables to play around with. All you have to do is make the complexity look like coolness, and voila.

The beauty of MBTI is in its simplicity. There's a slight fudge factor, but not nearly enough to make it _seem_ valid if it wasn't really.

The body-reading guy says that his method is so powerful that it would do a lot of harm if it fell into the wrong hands. That's why it has to be shrouded in secrecy, and why you have to join their "culture" in order to access it. This is pretty standard procedure for starting a cult or secret society, or at least getting a handful of devoted followers (which in this guy's case, is probably the only way he'll ever get any).


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## Hosker (Jan 19, 2011)

They could have actually had a good personality theory (doubtful), but they went about promoting it in completely the wrong way.

Oh, and a level up system? Reach level 19 for the low, low price of $29.95!


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## Duck_of_Death (Jan 21, 2011)

They were a highly organized group of trolls. Nothing more.


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## U-80 (Mar 12, 2010)

^Still... it was a good tar and feathering.


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## BxR (Jun 15, 2011)

Since my original post got deleted with the main thread, here we go again:


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

It does have a cultish feel, especially since they came across like cult leader and handmaidens. Having said that, I think the methodology is interesting and I'll be looking into it more. The area of personality typing via facial features and body movement is an interest of mine, and if cultishness is an issue, I can easily turn it aside without having it affect me.

It's too bad the threads got deleted, since they were interesting to read.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

How the two methods relate:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Podlair-MBTI

Edit: There might be mistakes in translating Pod'lair to the 16 types but I think the cognitive functions are accurate, with the addition of Xyy for Fe.

Edit again: Here's my hopefully accurate translation, for anyone interested in the relationship:

Nyy’xai - NeFi - ENFP
Nyy’zai - NeTi - ENTP
Vyy’xai - SeFi - ESFP
Vyy’zai - SeTi - ESTP
Xyy’nai - FeNi - ENFJ
Xyy’vai - FeSi - ESFJ
Zyy’nai - TeNi - ENTJ
Zyy’vai - TeSi - ESTJ
Nai’xyy - NiFe - INFJ
Nai’zyy - NiTe - INTJ
Vai’xyy - SiFe - ISFJ
Vai’zyy - SiTe - ISTJ
Xai’nyy - FiNe - INFP
Xai’vyy - FiSe - ISFP
Zai’nyy - TiNe - INTP
Zai’vyy - TiSe - ISTP


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## Mr.Xl Vii (Jan 19, 2011)

Karen said:


> It does have a cultish feel, especially since they came across like cult leader and handmaidens. Having said that, I think the methodology is interesting and I'll be looking into it more. The area of personality typing via facial features and body movement is an interest of mine, and if cultishness is an issue, I can easily turn it aside without having it affect me.
> 
> It's too bad the threads got deleted, since they were interesting to read.


It was literally just MBTI with different names. They had a little bit of socionics in there too. It was dumb. There was nothing even remotely original. Their "energy field" nonsense was exactly like what we do when we analyze people's type based on their videos. Their biggest complaint with MBTI was that "you are in charge of choosing your own type, whereas with us we analyze you and give you your type". Sure there are a lot of mistypings because people in MBTI dont always understand the theory enough to type themselves, or they're not really self aware, but typically someone else who is a little more knowledgable can steer them on the right path. The only difference is that they bypass the whole "pick your own type" thing, and just tell you what your type is. I sort of prefer that method because there are a seriously high number of mistypings by people who dont really know themselves that well. 

Once you know how to translate their nonsense you see it's identical. No need to waste your time


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## Bast (Mar 23, 2011)

Duck_of_Death said:


> They were a highly organized group of trolls. Nothing more.


Unfortunately, they aren't trolls. They've been on intpforum.com for MONTHS spouting about how amazing this stuff is and calling everyone else stupid.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Mr.Xl Vii said:


> It was literally just MBTI with different names. They had a little bit of socionics in there too. It was dumb. There was nothing even remotely original. Their "energy field" nonsense was exactly like what we do when we analyze people's type based on their videos. Their biggest complaint with MBTI was that "you are in charge of choosing your own type, whereas with us we analyze you and give you your type". Sure there are a lot of mistypings because people in MBTI dont always understand the theory enough to type themselves, or they're not really self aware, but typically someone else who is a little more knowledgable can steer them on the right path. The only difference is that they bypass the whole "pick your own type" thing, and just tell you what your type is. I sort of prefer that method because there are a seriously high number of mistypings by people who dont really know themselves that well.
> 
> Once you know how to translate their nonsense you see it's identical. No need to waste your time


I agree with what you said except that they're more specific in explaining what each body movement means. Since we can all do that to some degree, but more on the unconscious level, I'd like to know if what they've come up with is accurate and can be used more consciously.

I agree that the "pick your own type" method doesn't work well for many people, for various reasons, even with help from "experts."


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

I read their website before I heard an suspicions of them being trolls/cults. 

Frankly, if anyone actually falls for that shit, then they deserve it.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

I don't care how it's packaged or if it's a redo of other methods. If it teaches me something, I'll be glad I looked into it, though I do understand about the cult aspect and that would need to be avoided in my research.

There's a method of deciding on temperament based on facial features, body language, thoughts, etc., that's been as or more helpful to me than MBTI since I was easily able to see my type and understand why I feel/think/act the way I do. It's Carol Tuttle Energy Profiling, and the types are divided, briefly, into the following:

Type 1: fun-loving, expressive; needs spontaneity, variety and freedom; unstructured; example: Jim Carrey

Type 2: likes connections; calming, flowing personality; methodical; example: Richard Gere

Type 3: dynamic; reactive; goal oriented; take charge; example: Arnold Schwarzenegger

Type 4: more structured, precise; black and white thinking; reflective; are their own authority; example: Keanu Reeves

I'm Type 1, followed by Type 4, which explains why I've always bounced back and forth between fun-loving and precise T-type thinking and why it's been difficult to decide between T and F, S and N.

Carol Tuttle has Dressing Your Truth, also, but no matter how something is packaged, if it helps explain something different about personality, I'm all for it, especially if enough info to help can be found free on the Internet. :laughing:


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## Moon Pix (Sep 19, 2009)

FreeSpirit said:


> I've seen a few people express interest in them.


The only reason that it grabbed my interest was the stuff about your personality influencing your facial expressions. Over the last few days Ive been watching a few videos of INFJs on youtube and noticed a few characteristic facial expressions that I often use without even thinking about it. Then somebody shows up and basically says "Moon Pix, you've typed yourself as an INFP but you're actually an INFJ, we can tell from your facial expressions and body language."

As for all of that new age cult stuff, I find it hard to swallow. Whenever I hear somebody going on about 'energy', 'auras' and your 'third eye chakra' it makes me feel uneasy. Aren't us NFs supposed to be into all of that?

(weirdly enough astrology does interest me as long as its taken as a bit of fun and nothing to run your life by.)


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

Bast said:


> Unfortunately, they aren't trolls. They've been on intpforum.com for MONTHS spouting about how amazing this stuff is and calling everyone else stupid.


Adymus was active on the INTP forum 18 months ago and was always mentioning some big secret project he was involved in while being a generally nice guy. Has this changed? Surely further evidence (if any were needed) of their cultish nature if he has.

Not sure if it's because he recognised my username but he at least tried to explain their ... interesting? reasoning for not "reading" boring people in a civilised manner, unlike the others, so I'd like to think they haven't screwed him up too bad


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

Moon Pix said:


> As for all of that new age cult stuff, I find it hard to swallow. Whenever I hear somebody going on about 'energy', 'auras' and your 'third eye chakra' it makes me feel uneasy. Aren't us NFs supposed to be into all of that?
> 
> (weirdly enough astrology does interest me as long as its taken as a bit of fun and nothing to run your life by.)


That energy aura thing, I couldn't understand either. Perhaps it appeals to the ni/ti nf's but I can't wrap my head around it. I was trying to make sense of the theory but it was so obscure and very foreign from the way I think. Not to mention every sentence I read I pretty much disagreed with. I'm glad Adymus didn't turn it into a "you just don't get it because of your type" like i've seen other people do. 

---------------

I think the criticsms of mbti and jung were in some ways relevant, in other ways not so much. I can't say that pod'lair is better though. If all those systems suck, most common sense thing to do is just abandon it all. No doubt they'll get a few recruitments from this site. It plays into the cognitive vulnerabilities of people.


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## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

BxR said:


> Since my original post got deleted with the main thread, here we go again:


Glad you reposted the video.


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## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

asmit127 said:


> Not sure if it's because he recognised my username but he at least tried to explain their ... interesting? reasoning for not "reading" boring people in a civilised manner, unlike the others, so I'd like to think they haven't screwed him up too bad


I understand you not wanting your friend to have changed.
However, "not 'reading' boring people in a civilised manner" sounds
pretty screwed up, period. Also, I don't need any more evidence
of their cult status. To me, they might as well have all been
speaking in unison.


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## suicidal_orange (May 6, 2010)

FreeSpirit said:


> I understand you not wanting your friend to have changed.
> However, "not 'reading' boring people in a civilised manner" sounds
> pretty screwed up, period. Also, I don't need any more evidence
> of their cult status. To me, they might as well have all been
> speaking in unison.


Oh he's not a friend, just a very active member of a small forum who seemed a pleasant and knowledgeable chap. 

What I was trying to say that you seem to have misinterpreted (likely because I write stuff backwards, it happens too often to blame it on anyone but myself...) is that Adymus' explanation of why they don't "read" boring people was given in a very civilised manner and he admitted that typing unhealthy people was harder, which appeared contrary to the general air of superiority given off by their other members.


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## Moon Pix (Sep 19, 2009)

Karen said:


> It does have a cultish feel, especially since they came across like cult leader and handmaidens. Having said that, I think the methodology is interesting and I'll be looking into it more. The area of personality typing via facial features and body movement is an interest of mine, and if cultishness is an issue, I can easily turn it aside without having it affect me.
> 
> It's too bad the threads got deleted, since they were interesting to read.


Thats basically my take on it too. The idea that it may be possible to observe objective indicators of a person's MBTI type is an exciting idea. It's just a shame that the cultish "this is my compound and these are my children" element will make it difficult for a lot of people to take seriously.


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## Moon Pix (Sep 19, 2009)

I actually found a thread on a intp forum from late 2009 from before they went online with the site and it's surprising to me how polite and generally well reasoned Adymus came across compared to how confrontational and abrasive he was here. At this point, the focus was squarely on the physical indicators of type and there's no mention of 'energy' or any other new-age weirdness.

I wonder what happened?
INTP Forum


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## aestrivex (Mar 7, 2011)

the pod'lair idiots only attracted my attention by what appeared to be a model criticism of socionics, which turned out to make no sense. they didn't actually demonstrate an understanding of any of the model differences between socionics and other theories; they made exactly two points -- socionics has a theory of intertype relations (which they immediately dismissed as nonsense), and socionics has a theory of VI (which they noted that socionists recognize as unreliable but proceeded to criticize anyway -- but only the ganin/extremist version of VI -- in favor of their own theory of VI).

it was basically pathetic.


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## Charles Weller (May 12, 2011)

So I ran a search for this group and I went to the page, but I seriously cannot figure out what the hell it is talking about. Can anyone explain what it's talking about? It just sounds like words with no real meaning.


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## Cleo (Jan 31, 2011)

FreeSpirit said:


> Those Pod'Lair people say they are coming back.
> Maybe they won't, but in case they do.....
> 
> I've seen a few people express interest in them.
> ...


They sound like fun.


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