# Pedestal



## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?

Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?

Type as well, please and thank you


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

I'll start:

No and No, INFJ (F)


Shoot I should've included gender in the OP. Please include that as well, thank you. 

Also feel free to elaborate more than I did. I'm curious about other's thoughts on the topic.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Yikes. Harder to answer than I thought. I’ll start with the easy stuff: INFJ, female.


*Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?*
No...ish. I want to be seen and accepted for who I am, not some incorrect/romanticized perception of who I am. I want someone who makes me grow and strive...but I also want to be adored. And I know for a fact that I’m harder on myself than my partner is on me.


*Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?*
Ha, take the other answer and reverse it. He’s harder on himself than I am on him. But I don’t think my perception is rose-tinted. He’s genuinely an amazing person, and it’d be doing him a disservice to look at him and only see the areas where he can improve.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?
> 
> Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?
> 
> Type as well, please and thank you


No I don't, but I don't mind a little "mutual spoiling" on occasion. I think there are better ways to show affection than to hold someone up like a king or queen.

ENTP. ♂


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


> Yikes. Harder to answer than I thought. I’ll start with the easy stuff: INFJ, female.
> 
> 
> *Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?*
> ...



👭 <- This is me, holding your hand in unity


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I think there are better ways to show affection than to hold someone up like a king or queen.
> 
> ENTP.



For example... (aka elaborate more, please and thank you)


Also- from my experience ENTP are very much "action" people. Words seem to mean very little to your crew.


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## KatieLadyMoon (Sep 18, 2020)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?
> 
> Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?
> 
> Type as well, please and thank you


Unfortunately, a way BPD manifests is by putting people on a pedestal. It is known as “Idealization”. I DO idealize partners in the early phase of my relationships. I would say the first few months or so, before things become normal. Or until we have had our first argument. A symptom of this is overlooking red flags, which both my therapist and I realized I have a problem with. It’s very easy to overlook the bad things because the mind just wants to be like “that’s okay, he’s this way and that’s rare!” 

But anyways, yes, I do have a problem with that. I need to take a more objective look into men, going in the future, when I’m ready to date again in a few months. 

- INFP 4w3, you can see the rest


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> 👭 <- This is me, holding your hand in unity


Bwahahaha we’ve been synced up today. Love it.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


> Bwahahaha we’ve been synced up today. Love it.


Though I usually agree with what you share in your posts, I think, so not just a “today” thing


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

KatieLadyMoon said:


> Unfortunately, a way BPD manifests is by putting people on a pedestal. It is known as “Idealization”. I DO idealize partners in the early phase of my relationships. I would say the first few months or so, before things become normal. Or until we have had our first argument. A symptom of this is overlooking red flags, which both my therapist and I realized I have a problem with. It’s very easy to overlook the bad things because the mind just wants to be like “that’s okay, he’s this way and that’s rare!”
> 
> But anyways, yes, I do have a problem with that. I need to take a more objective look into men, going in the future, when I’m ready to date again in a few months.
> 
> - INFP 4w3, you can see the rest


I hadn't realized that, that is interesting. Thank you for sharing! 

So you are _aware _of "red flags", you just choose to ignore them?


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> Though I usually agree with what you share in your posts, I think, so not just a “today” thing


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


>


So whiskery baha- also looks so soft & squishy & probably slimey 😄 

I live by those guys & they smeeeeellllllll 😂. I have about 5,364,272 videos of them slugging to & from the water, it makes me laugh.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> So whiskery baha- also looks so soft & squishy & probably slimey 😄
> 
> I live by those guys & they smeeeeellllllll 😂. I have about 5,364,272 videos of them slugging to & from the water, it makes me laugh.


Ha nice! I’m jealous. I’m in the agrarian center of California, which means the only lumbering, smelly animals I live near are cows. 😂 They have yet to do anything I’ve wanted to take a video of.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


> Ha nice! I’m jealous. I’m in the agrarian center of California, which means the only lumbering, smelly animals I live near are cows. 😂 They have yet to do anything I’ve wanted to take a video of.


Ahaha- California cows _are _happy cows or so that's what the commercials tell me 😄 We drove up the CA & OR coast last summer, there are a surprising number of farms & cows along the coast. Were I a cow, that is where I'd wish to reside. 

Epitaph:

Happy cow, happy cow
She is steak now
Happy cow


So the center of CA? I drove up the 5 a few years ago.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> Ahaha- California cows _are _happy cows or so that's what the commercials tell me 😄 We drove up the CA & OR coast last summer, there are a surprising number of farms & cows along the coast. Were I a cow, that is where I'd wish to reside.
> 
> Epitaph:
> 
> ...


Coast cows probably are happy! Lovely weather and lots of hills to roam over. I wouldn’t mind that life, myself. I wish the poor cows near me weren’t crammed into mud and manure with precious little space to roam around.

The 5 is a good representation of my area. Yes, I’m very much a central Cali girl! Are you on the west coast as well?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> For example... (aka elaborate more, please and thank you)
> 
> 
> Also- from my experience ENTP are very much "action" people. Words seem to mean very little to your crew.


Spend time with them. Do things you enjoy together. Each partner finds ways to do little thing that make the other partner's life easier. 

Case in point, my future ex wife was in grad school at the time I was still an undergrad (I went to the military straight out of high school) and she was helping her sister (an engineer) write her papers. She had to research an obscure African tribe called the !Kung (Dobe !Kung). This was early on in our relationship and I reasoned that, if I helped her do the research, we could finish up in the computer lab and get to some mutually pleasurable "alone time." So I rapidly produced about 3 inches of material from various Websites on this tribe for her. She was used to writing papers for her sister, future brother-in-law, and her own papers. Nobody had EVER offered to help her before, she was a bit astonished at my gesture, but it did help her. We were able to take the research back to my dorm room and, after a little intimate time, she wrote the rough draft of that paper.


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

INFP, female. I want a teammate, my equal, but someone I can learn from because we're different individuals, someone I can grow with together, who brings out the best in me and who does the same with me without feeling inferior in any way. Putting someone on a pedestal is just something that will start to mess with everything. I don't ever want to look down on my partner, or them to do that to me.


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## ButIHaveNoFear (Sep 6, 2017)

INFP, F

I don't want people to make a big deal out of me or treat me like I'm perfect. It reminds me of my school days when boys infrequently dated me because they thought I was too good for them. (I mean, I _was_, but...) Then when they finally emerged from the shadows and let it slip that I was "perfect", I kind of tore them to pieces for it. They thought I was so great, not truly knowing me, so I acted the opposite way! I couldn't help it. But someone does need to think of me fondly, enough to not pick anyone else.

For my husband, I didn't put him on a pedestal in the beginning. There's a 17 year age gap. I had to spend time with him to be comfortable with the idea of us being together. He's great, and he's also real. We had and have lots of fun together, which is what both of us wanted out of the relationship. And he likes to take action shots of me when I'm scarfing down food—how could I put _that_ behavior on a pedestal?

And @Kelly Kapowski , @Windblownhair , are y'all safe from the fires? How about your families? Please take care!!


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

ButIHaveNoFear said:


> INFP, F
> 
> I don't want people to make a big deal out of me or treat me like I'm perfect. It reminds me of my school days when boys infrequently dated me because they thought I was too good for them. (I mean, I _was_, but...) Then when they finally emerged from the shadows and let it slip that I was "perfect", I kind of tore them to pieces for it. They thought I was so great, not truly knowing me, so I acted the opposite way! I couldn't help it. But someone does need to think of me fondly, enough to not pick anyone else.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the concern! We’re doing okay over here. Had a few family members that had to evacuate because of the fires, but fortunately none of their houses burned. They’ve all returned at this point and are helping out neighbors that weren’t so fortunate.


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## 8080 (Oct 6, 2020)

No and No, ENTP (M)

The obvious need not be said; flattery and hypocrisy are superfluous unless funny.

The self-congratulatory claim of being married to the – absolutely – best woman in the world strangely implies that she satisfies all the husbands who claim the same.

Enough to be praised in the internal review: disputes about trifles were absent, nothing important was missing, and love was always evident.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?
I absolutely don't like it. I'd prefer for my partner to merely see my flaws and accept them. My fiance does this. He knows exactly how I am, down to how I'm always losing things and panicking after, and he's incredibly chill about it, sometimes even amused by my foibles, while he treats my emotional issues with empathy and compassion. I feel like the more a person can know of my issues and flaws and be super chill about them, the more I feel like I can too.

I think, often when you put someone on a pedestal, particularly one that might be really high, it can be an unrealistic expectation, and when people have unrealistic expectations, it can make you feel worse about yourself, because you know it's a standard you can't live up to.

Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?
I guess I do in a way, because I think he's the best man on the planet. But, I'm also aware of his flaws and imperfections, and how he gets on my nerves most days, in little ways. Sometimes he'll upset me when we're stressed out and tired. I suppose that's normal. I'm aware of his limitations and, if anything, it causes me to appreciate the efforts he puts out for me, because I know it often takes him outside his comfort zone. So, I guess in a way I do, and in a way I don't. At the end of the day, I don't have unrealistic expectations regarding him.

Type as well, please and thank you 
MBTI is INFJ, idk about other types and female.


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## wums (Nov 25, 2013)

No and No, though I do want to feel like the good outweighs the bad to the point that I don't really mind the bad either way, even while acknowledging that it exists. I mean, you can't fix people's flaws for them, nor can you know when or if they are ever going to be fixed--and everyone has many flaws. Idealizing a partner comes from perceiving/imagining a lack of flaws, which just means ignoring, denying or not knowing about the flaws. (Course many people also hide their flaws in the early stages of a relationship.) So it's much better to choose a partner around the presence of strengths rather than absence of flaws. And by strengths I guess I just mean, not in the objective sense, but any traits that really make you feel like you want to be close to that person.

That's how I would want someone to feel about me too, that I had something special that was worth all the trouble.


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## Crowbo (Jul 9, 2017)

I've never had a partner so I wouldn't know XD. And I might never know.


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## Temple (Aug 18, 2020)

No and no. I think I'm pretty critical of people, and this includes people I find attractive. I avoid idealizing men and constructing detailed romantic fantasies because I'd rather not have a distorted view of how people and relationships actually work. I try to see things as they are when it comes to this, and I don't ignore red flags. I want someone to recognize that we are both just human and can give honesty and devotion in appropriate amounts.
enfp (F)


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

A pedestal is a dangerous place to be, one small wobble and you can fall a long ways. 

It’s also hard to feed and care for someone up on a pedestal. It’s hard to understand their needs. I remember when I was younger it seemed like young men had a really distorted view of women in general and it was very off-putting to me. It felt like trying to live up to a marble sex statue. I remember two different young men saying (it seemed like out of the blue... or something) “Women don’t fart.” I said to one “So your sister has never farted?” He said “Yeah but...not much...Well I don’t like to believe that girls I would date fart.” I didn’t say it, but I was thinking “What else do you like to believe? That a woman can blow rainbows out of her nose and that we don’t poo or pee and that we don’t need to eat unless you pay to feed us and that we don’t have feelings or thoughts and aren’t real people?” Just that complete sexualization that some men did of women all through that age was incredibly hurtful. Hardly anyone wants to know the thoughts and feelings of a 21 year old girl is what I remember. 

Now thank heavens these kind of statements by people make you realize so easily and quickly who is not ready to actually love. I feel real love goes well beyond these kinds of pedestals. I guess that is obvious to more people than just myself? Real love can understand that you might get cancer, that you might have to deal with a difficult pregnancy, that there are ailments and sicknesses and getting fired and real LIFE. That a woman is not just lying on a bed in lingerie waiting for you to come home (I like the movie Inside Man but Denzel Washington’s girlfriend in the movie is (I kid you not) portrayed as a woman who lies on the bed all day in gorgeous silk lingerie just wondering when her boyfriend will be able to come home and when he calls uses a seductive and pouty voice to tell him she is missing him. Man, wouldn’t that be the life? She wasn’t even reading, though!” 

I have had conversations with some young men where I was talking about mitrochondrial DNA and how personality gets passed on by a mother to her kids where the 2 young men freaked out because they couldn’t reconcile that idea of the sex goddess they were picturing being with with someone whose personality might get passed on to their kids. 

Okay... well that is a very particular area of this question to have delved into. It is also something I don’t have to worry about anymore and haven’t for years. Thank heavens. But it was very hurtful when I was in my early 20’s. I remember almost feeling like them realizing I was a person with a brain was like a problem. Like that on some level _I_ was invisible. It was like that moment in 30 Rock when Liz goes to a strip club with the guys just to prove something and ends up talking to a woman on a pole who used to be a college friend about how old her kids were now. The men right then couldn’t take sexy woman on pole and real life and real person with 3 year old as concepts. It’s not the concept they wanted, anyway. I can’t really even pretend to understand that. But I see it and it’s funny, but objectifying to that degree... I much more like it when I see someone who did objectify someone be absolutely delighted to find out that the marble statue is human. And luckily I’ve seen that too. 

So here I am with 17 years of marriage under my belt. I married a 23 year old who knew what love is about (I felt weird almost quoting Forrest Gump). I like when my flaws and quirks just seem cute to him. 

But switching gears here completely, he’s not on a pedestal. He isn’t perfect at all, but he is a good person. He isn’t the most wonderful person alive, but he is mine and my favorite person to be with and I really adore him. 

I heard something that I realized was true for me with him. When I had crushes on people I used to like the idea of them but not really them... I didn’t know “them”. When I dated my husband I wasn’t in love with the idea of him at all. He was younger than me, he didn’t have a lot of schooling, he wasn’t handsome and he wasn’t technically a good prospect... but when we were together he made me laugh so hard and I adored being with him. I loved HIM and being with him and always wanted more and not the idea of him. And that is still true. I don’t have a crush on my husband... I seriously love him. Being with him is the funnest treat of my day! 

The way I was going to originally answer this had nothing to do with the above and I think it’s still a valid thing to bring up. I don’t need a pedestal but I do need reliability of a certain level of goodness, honesty, etc. . I need to know that my husband is going to choose to be consistently kind. That if I need him to be unselfish that he is going to be unselfish. I have faith in this level that my husband has consistently shown me. When we fight, I need to know he will forgive me and talk it out. I can look to him to have compassion for me if I’m having a rough time. If I want to bring a stray kitten home I found, I need to know at a certain level that he is not going to make me throw it out. My relationship works on this certain level of predicting how altruistic my husband is and his is not to the roof... he has limits... I found out those limits early in our marriage...and since my husband is a 9 I try to support where his limits are as well... because that is healthy. He needs my respect for his limits. We are all human...and to me that’s where the beauty comes from, and also from my faith in his love for me.

So I hope I’m making sense... I don’t put him on a pedestal but instead I do need to consistently know that I can count on his character to be there for me and for our kids and for others at the level that I explored and accepted when I said yes to our life together. If he disappointed me on a certain matter then I still have faith... and I need that. I need my faith in him. My faith in him makes this relationship work and makes me happy each time it’s justified. When he comes through then I really feel happy.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


> Coast cows probably are happy! Lovely weather and lots of hills to roam over. I wouldn’t mind that life, myself. I wish the poor cows near me weren’t crammed into mud and manure with precious little space to roam around.
> 
> The 5 is a good representation of my area. Yes, I’m very much a central Cali girl! Are you on the west coast as well?


They really do cram those guys in. I'm from the midwest, they're awful about that. 😣

Yes! SoCal  Are you north, middle or southern CA?


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

ButIHaveNoFear said:


> INFP, F
> 
> I don't want people to make a big deal out of me or treat me like I'm perfect. It reminds me of my school days when boys infrequently dated me because they thought I was too good for them. (I mean, I _was_, but...) Then when they finally emerged from the shadows and let it slip that I was "perfect", I kind of tore them to pieces for it. They thought I was so great, not truly knowing me, so I acted the opposite way! I couldn't help it. But someone does need to think of me fondly, enough to not pick anyone else.
> 
> ...



Is your husband older or younger? I think that may be one case where I'd have a pedestal issue (as in putting them on a pedestal)- I tend to look up to those older than I.

Yes, fine here! It was bad a month ago, seems better now. Though I heard on the radio this morn Orange County has a big fire now. Thank you for asking, and you as well!


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

@Llyralen yaaaaay you contributed! And @Temple too! I was going to tag some of you ENFP ladies as this discussion started btwn @Ice Cream Man & I over in the INFJ forum in regards to ENFP's. He's married to an ENFP lady, so I was curious what your thoughts were. But I wanted to hear everyone's opinions regardless of type, so I just let it be. Anyway, thank you for chiming in.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Crowbo said:


> I've never had a partner so I wouldn't know XD. And I might never know.


Some day you shall. You're still young!


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Llyralen said:


> A pedestal is a dangerous place to be, one small wobble and you can fall a long ways.
> 
> It’s also hard to feed and care for someone up on a pedestal. I remember when I was younger it seemed like young men had a really distorted view of women in general and it was very off-putting to me. It felt like trying to live up to a marble sex statue. I remember two different young men saying (it seemed like out of the blue... or something) “Women don’t fart.” I said to one “So your sister has never farted?” He said “Well I don’t like to believe that girls fart.” I didn’t say it, but I was thinking “What else do you like to believe? That a woman can blow rainbows out of her nose and that we don’t poo or per and that we don’t need to eat unless you pay to feed us and....? Any human anything?” Just that complete sexualization was incredibly hurtful.



You know what- this is a really good example/point. That is the exact type of crap I haaaaaate. Same goes for periods. My husband wants to pretend they don't exist. SO HELP ME IF I DIE BEFORE MY DAUGHTER HITS PUBERTY 😡 I've told him if I die he cannot act like such a big ninny about them with her or he will make her feel bad. My mom died before I hit puberty, I have an extra dose of sensitivity to this topic. 😬 





Llyralen said:


> Now thank heavens these kind of statements make you realize so easily and quickly who is not ready to actually love. I feel real love goes well beyond these kinds of pedestals. I guess that is obvious to more people than just myself? Real love can understand that you might get cancer, that you might have to deal with a difficult pregnancy, that there are ailments and sicknesses and real LIFE. That a woman is not just lying on a bed in lingerie waiting for you to come home (I like the movie Inside Man but Denzel Washington’s girlfriend in the movie is (I kid you not) portrayed as a woman who lies on the bed all day in gorgeous silk lingerie just wondering when her boyfriend will be able to come home. Man wouldn’t that be the life? She wasn’t even reading, though!”


Ahahahaha 😂
I'm sorry I can't read what you're saying, it's hard for me to read through this squishy bed & the satin from my lingerie is covering my view. Idk what you're talking about. I stayed in my bed all day Saturday. In my sweatpants. Reading. Though I do like the idea of the Pretty Woman scene where she's waiting with just a tie on. Maybe a santa hat. Then I remember I have kids. THEY RUIN EVERYTHIIIINNNGGGGGGGgggggg




Llyralen said:


> I have had conversations with some young men where I was talking about mitrochondrial DNA and how personality gets passed on by a mother to her kids where the 2 young men freaked out because they couldn’t reconcile that idea of the sex goddess they were picturing being with with someone whose personality might get passed on to their kids.


WUT

Dumb. Why would you not want your kids to be awesome. 



Llyralen said:


> Okay... well that is a very particular area of this question to have delved into. It is also something I don’t have to worry about anymore. Thank heavens. But it was very hurtful when I was in my early 20’s. I remember almost feeling like them realizing I was a person with a brain was like a problem. It was like that moment in 30 Rock when Liz goes to a strip club with the guys just to prove something and ends up talking to a woman on a pole who used to be a college friend about how old her kids were. The men right then couldn’t take sexy woman on pole and real life. I can’t really even pretend to understand that. Love for a partner is not separate from sexy for me.


I like the particular area you took the question. It wasn't even on my radar, so you've given me more to think about.



Llyralen said:


> So here I am with 17 years of marriage under my belt. I married a 23 year old who knew what love is about (I felt weird almost quoting Forrest Gump).


Same! Except I was 22 & he was 24.  So stinking young. 
Crumb. My computer keeps shutting down. 




Llyralen said:


> I like when my flaws just seem cute.


I wonder if this is how most people (esp women) feel. I can't decide how I feel about it. I like the idea and I don't. Need to think about it more. 



Llyralen said:


> But switching gears here completely, he’s not on a pedestal. He isn’t perfect at all, but he is a good person. I heard something that I realized was true for me with him. When I had crushes on people I used to like the idea of them but not them... I didn’t know “them”. When I dated my husband I wasn’t in love with the idea of him at all. He was younger than me, he didn’t have a lot of schooling, he wasn’t handsome and he wasn’t technically a good prospect... but when we were together he made me laugh so hard and I adored being with him. I loved HIM and being with him and not the idea of him. And that is still true. I don’t have a crush on my husband... I seriously love him. Being with him is the funnest treat of my day!


That is wonderful. ❤



Llyralen said:


> The way I was going to originally answer this had nothing to do with the above and I think it’s still a valid thing to talk about. I don’t need a pedestal but I do need reliability of a certain level of feeling of compassion. I need to know that consistently if I need him to be unselfish that he is going to be unselfish. I have faith in this level that my husband has consistently shown me. When we fight, I need to know he will forgive me and talk it out. I can look to him to have compassion for me if I’m having a rough time. If I want to bring a stray kitten home I found, I need to know at a certain level that he is not going to make me throw it out. My relationship works on this certain level of predicting how altruistic my husband is and his is not to the roof... he has limits... and since my husband is a 9 I try to support where his limits are as well... because that is healthy. He needs my respect for him limits. We are all human...and to me that’s where the beauty comes from, and also from my faith in his love for me.
> 
> So I hope I’m making sense... I don’t put him on a pedestal but instead I do need to consistently know that I can count on his character to be there for me and for our kids and for others at the level that I explored and accepted when I said yes to our life together. If he disappointed me on a certain matter then I still have faith... and I need that. I need my faith in him. My faith in him makes this relationship work and makes me happy each time it’s justified.


Absolutely making sense. Well said. Thank you.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

@Kelly Kapowski I was thinking after I wrote about “flaws as cute” too that it’s not quite right. My quirks are cute to him, good. But my actual character flaws are not cute and if I didn’t have them we would probably have a better live, and the same goes for him. Quirks kind of humorous/cute... faults not something to really like. Thank you for your reaction! /hugs!


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Llyralen said:


> @Kelly Kapowski I was thinking after I wrote about “flaws as cute” too that it’s not quite right. My quirks are cute to him, good. But my actual character flaws are not cute and if I didn’t have them we would probably have a better live, and the same goes for him. Quirks kind of humorous/cute... faults not something to really like. Thank you for your reaction! /hugs!



Yes- that's exactly it! ✔ And ditto 🤸‍♀️


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?
> 
> Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?
> 
> Type as well, please and thank you


No I don't like the idea at all. Creates unrealistic expectations and probably would feel stifling to my growth. I like a partner who challenges me respectfully and accepts my limits. 
I never had a romantic partner who put me on a pedestal but I kinda have a friend who does in some ways. We've been friends since kindergarten tho I don't consider us that close because only few things bind us, but it's fine. Many times during the years in our childhood I felt our relationship stifling because I could do no wrong and was the best in her eyes and was expected to be the best. This couldn't actually balance my shortcomings and support my growth, so I can only imagine how much worse that would be with a partner with the added complexities of adult life.

I wouldn't say I put my partners on a pedestal but I have overlooked a few things in the beginning I later accepted as negatives. Nothing major that caused issues and I think chances for this happening go down as the years go by. If I admire someone a lot it can happen so I try to measure my reactions and not be overly expressive with such sentiments, until I eventually find balance on my own.


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## ButIHaveNoFear (Sep 6, 2017)

Windblownhair said:


> Thanks for the concern! We’re doing okay over here. Had a few family members that had to evacuate because of the fires, but fortunately none of their houses burned. They’ve all returned at this point and are helping out neighbors that weren’t so fortunate.


I'm glad you and your fam are doing okay! I'm sorry about their neighbors. It hurts to hear about all the damage.

...But you know, those forests are just "too cluttered. They need to be kept clean. I've been telling them that!" quoth the Orange Menace.


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## Crowbo (Jul 9, 2017)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> Some day you shall. You're still young!


True. The pandemic certainly isn't helping matters either.


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## ButIHaveNoFear (Sep 6, 2017)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> Is your husband older or younger? I think that may be one case where I'd have a pedestal issue (as in putting them on a pedestal)- I tend to look up to those older than I.
> 
> Yes, fine here! It was bad a month ago, seems better now. Though I heard on the radio this morn Orange County has a big fire now. Thank you for asking, and you as well!


He's the 41-year-old silver fox while I am the 24-years-young Old Soul™ of the relationship. He jokes around like a teenage boy (mature ISFJ) and has a personal goal of not being condescending towards me. It seems to work well!

I'm glad you're safe.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

No. I do want respect for my mind, will, emotions and body. No one is perfect ~I do think there are perfect people for You.

I have had issues like some of the other ladies mention above. Complementing physical features and not acknowledging my mind. Then I have the combo of both but~ in an unappealing way. Who wants to be told they are perfect for breeding 0.o Wtf am I? An animal? Ones that think you are a challenge ~ I am just being me. Oh ~ and ones that want to try an flaunt their money for appeal... go get a hooker is my thought. If I want something I will get it myself. I guess some women feel like being given objects is a form of a pedestal. (if that is their love language then good for them) I own my own house, I have my own vehicles and my own money. I have been raising my daughter by myself since she was six (her dad moved to Texas and then around). If I need something fixed~ I figure out how to fix it. I do appreciate help with learning how to fix things so~ I do not have to ask anyone to do it for me again. 

Now a man~ depends on what they consider a pedestal. Me relinquishing/compromising control of the things that let them be the male? Letting them get to the depths I possess/inner workings of my mind? Trying to help them, make them happy, please them, respect them.....

If they get to the point I am doing those things then ~ that is a form of a pedestal imo because that means I trust them with me. Am I going to give them any of the things listed above if they are not worthy~ nope. It takes A LOT for me to even let my guard down so they can see the deeper surface. Is that a pedestal if they get under the surface? Would that make it a two way pedestal or a couch?


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

ButIHaveNoFear said:


> I'm glad you and your fam are doing okay! I'm sorry about their neighbors. It hurts to hear about all the damage.
> 
> ...But you know, those forests are just "too cluttered. They need to be kept clean. I've been telling them that!" quoth the Orange Menace.


It’s a mess, although they’ve definitely got the tenacity to rebuild. I’m glad to see the community rallying.



Kelly Kapowski said:


> They really do cram those guys in. I'm from the midwest, they're awful about that.
> 
> Yes! SoCal  Are you north, middle or southern CA?


Howdy neighbor! Middle CA over here, and ready for the cool weather to start up already!


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


> Howdy neighbor! Middle CA over here, and ready for the cool weather to start up already!


‘Elloooo gov’na! 

It was 60’s & cloudy here this wkd, felt like FALL


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

ButIHaveNoFear said:


> He's the 41-year-old silver fox while I am the 24-years-young Old Soul™ of the relationship. He jokes around like a teenage boy (mature ISFJ) and has a personal goal of not being condescending towards me. It seems to work well!
> 
> I'm glad you're safe.


Haha I have a friend that married a man 16 yrs older than her when she was 32, their dynamic cracks me up 😄


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Crowbo said:


> True. The pandemic certainly isn't helping matters either.


No rush. ENJOY YOUR INDEPENDENCE


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## Crowbo (Jul 9, 2017)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> No rush. ENJOY YOUR INDEPENDENCE


That is what is best for me right now and is for my own good so I completely agree.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> @Llyralen yaaaaay you contributed! And @Temple too! I was going to tag some of you ENFP ladies as this discussion started btwn @Ice Cream Man & I over in the INFJ forum in regards to ENFP's. He's married to an ENFP lady, so I was curious what your thoughts were. But I wanted to hear everyone's opinions regardless of type, so I just let it be. Anyway, thank you for chiming in.


Oh okay then... what I think... is ENFPs after our 20’s don’t expect perfection of ourselves— we become realists about ourselves and others in that way and instead appreciate the process of growth. We start to find beauty in the very human struggle for morality, gaging the difference in ourselves between good intensions and actual choices due to time and resources and human angst. 

NFPs know what we would change about this world very clearly. We know what we would do if time and resources and money and obligations were not factors. We are endlessly exploring those scenarios and so we know the disparity between what we could do and what we actually do on a constant permeating basis. At some point fairly early on we have to make peace with what we envision could be and what is likely to be. So Fi tries to define perfection according to us but then makes us very self-aware and self-judging. We have to learn peace with what we can do in our circumstances. 

We figure this is true for those around us too (probably incorrectly, but it’s part of our faith in others) And this wisdom winds up in ENFP phrases like “Give them a break” “It’s chaos out there, so be kind”. “Don’t judge, maybe they were just pregnant?” Which my ENfP mother used to always say about women or men who were acting badly and she always giggled like crazy whenever she said it. She had horrible pregnancies. Lol. 

So we don’t expect perfection in ourselves at some point. (When I was young I tried, I had a check-list— I found out in my 20’s Benjamin Franklin also had a check-list to shoot for perfection which he also abandoned learning first-hand it was impossible as I also did, and instead realized this is the reason for kindness and love to exist. We don’t love because someone is perfect, we love despite someone’s imperfections. Obviously with thinking of children if an angel said they were going to replace your child with a perfect child, we would refuse like crazy , do whatever we could, and go running to find our own faulty and annoying and adored child. Love imo is about seeing the beauty in growth and the beauty in intensions and understanding this human struggle. 

I’m not sure how to explain this next part because it’s so completely synonymous for me with what I think is the common human experience, but ENFPs cannot stop caring for people who have been with us in this struggle, who have seen our intensions or listened while we talk about our dreams. I don’t think we expect perfection but people have to be trustworthy for us to disclose these parts of ourself so that after we do that person becomes important to us always. Even if things change, they never stop being important. Almost as if they are carrying around parts of me like horcruxes. And even friends who I haven’t seen for years from my childhood, are very important. I can’t say whether it’s because they are a part of me or I am a part of them, the shared memories won’t ever go away. Even if they mess up. I thought that was true for everyone, but it might just be Fi. 

So as fellow ENFP Greta Gerwig shows us, its like this:


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Llyralen said:


> I’m not sure how to explain this next part because it’s so completely synonymous for me with what I think is the common human experience, but ENFPs cannot stop caring for people who have been with us in this struggle, who have seen our intensions or listened while we talk about our dreams. I don’t think we expect perfection but people have to be trustworthy for us to disclose these parts of ourself so that after we do that person becomes important to us always. Even if things change, they never stop being important. Almost as if they are carrying around parts of me like horcruxes. And even friends who I haven’t seen for years from my childhood, are very important. I can’t say whether it’s because they are a part of me or I am a part of them, the shared memories won’t ever go away. Even if they mess up. I thought that was true for everyone, but it might just be Fi.
> 
> So as fellow ENFP Greta Gerwig shows us, its like this:


I can see this being a Fi thing. My INFP best friend says something very similar.

I can’t say that it rings true for me. My memory can feel like a sieve, so someone important at one point can fade from memory and meaningfulness. Not a purposeful thing, it just seems to happen as circumstances change. And if someone has become something else to me (more a change in character than a change in circumstances), it’s easy to disconnect from them.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

I also never fail to fall off the pedestals that people place me on, so when people start thinking I'm great, or saying they think I'm great without knowing me well enough to know a lot of my qualities, I start to slip away emotionally because I know, either by a mistake or an unresolved misunderstanding, I'm going to let them down (or they'll think I let them down) and often they don't want anything to do with me after. Well it was their fault for having unrealistic expectations.

My name is based on how I'd be put on a pedestal like that Dulcinea is not real, just a figment of a deluded person's imagination.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Windblownhair said:


> I can see this being a Fi thing. My INFP best friend says something very similar.
> 
> I can’t say that it rings true for me. My memory can feel like a sieve, so someone important at one point can fade from memory and meaningfulness. Not a purposeful thing, it just seems to happen as circumstances change. And if someone has become something else to me (more a change in character than a change in circumstances), it’s easy to disconnect from them.


I know you’re not alone saying that. If NFJs wanted confirmation of NFJness rather than NFPness I think it would be this. 

Since it is very pertinent to the way NFPs experience our relationships I thought I’d try to write about it. I can see some of the effects of this difference, but I don’t really understand the difference well yet. It’s too central to how NFPs conduct ourselves and I honestly wouldn’t have known that there was any other way to feel. I still kind of almost don’t. The video I posted... what Greta said there, I would have thought was a beautiful way to explain the core of what everyone truly wants and needs. The more I give my shared memories and personal feelings to someone the more important they become as that other-demential world of knowing only between us is built. But imagine what this does in abuse situations and parents you can’t trust. That it’s still impossible to separate memories even when you do separate yourself. 

When I talk to my ESFJ son I realize for him it is about his physical world with SI and that “home” might be even more strongly “him” and even more impossible to extract himself from than it is for me to extract myself from people I’ve shared my Fi with. For him it is about everything that separates “a house” from what is meant by the word “home.” We moved when he was 10 and he and I and none of us knew how tough it was going to be for him... and our old home is still very much a part of who he is and about his daily thought processes. It’s like he moved and this slowly became the new home but our old home is so much a part of him that when I gave him a hypothetical about what it would be like to lose your old memories he said something about it almost being impossible for anyone to cut those memories. It would be easier to start with a new person, he said, showing both Fe dom (consideration for whoever would have to try to cut his memories out even in a hypothetical) and Si (those memories cannot be cut). 

For NFJs there much be something about the future that is this tied together with who you are, I would think. I do not understand it yet, so There’s no way I could speak at this point. I have found that unless you are asking some strange questions to realize someone experiences something differently these things are like our foundations .... We don’t talk about foundations when you describe a house, we hardly think of it unless there’s a problem with the foundation. I think. But definitely an area that needs more exploration.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Great question! Tough question. This part stuck out to me in its foreignness:


Llyralen said:


> The more I give my shared memories and personal feelings to someone the more important they become as that other-demential world of knowing only between us is built.


The idea of being understood so well by someone else appeals to me greatly! Creating that world by sharing memories and feelings is the part where I veer down a different path.

For me, sometimes memories contain important moments in life. But it's the decisions that led to those memories that are important to me, not the moment itself. For instance, choosing to tie my life to someone, choosing to train to work in a certain field vs. a wedding, a graduation. Or if something useful came of a moment (like I had an experience that made me grow as a person or learn something) but again I think the knowledge that came from it would be the thing I would cherish and want to share, not so much the memory specifically. The memory is like the background footnote.

I love moments of incandescent happiness, or homey warmth, but I treasure them in that moment. There isn't a lot of warming myself over past fires. 

Feelings, for me, are mercurial things. Like a match that immediately flames large, burns for a moment, then peters away into nothingness. The initial flare up of emotion is too big, the middle is a more accurate representation of my feelings, and the quick die out tracks with the lifespan my feelings have. And if someone sees me having emotions and assigns too much weight to my initial over-feeling, then it actually has potential to cloud their understanding of me. Someone who gets how I process feelings would be someone I feel connected to.

Feelings can also extrude when I'm not in the mood for them, so it may be that I'm sharing emotions unintentionally, and not as an attempt at connection. Some poor other person was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. I'd rather only experience emotions in discrete amounts when I'm ready for them, and not as something that comes out when I'm overwhelmed. Sharing that sort of emotion would probably do the opposite of connection for me - I'd likely just feel embarrassed and uncomfortable the next time I saw the person.

I do have a tendency to say "I feel like" and follow that up with an opinion. This is a good indicator of who I am as a person, and having that exchange of ideas, regardless of whether or not we agree, would make me feel more bonded to the other person. 



Llyralen said:


> For NFJs there much be something about the future that is this tied together with who you are, I would think. I do not understand it yet, so There’s no way I could speak at this point. I have found that unless you are asking some strange questions to realize someone experiences something differently these things are like our foundations .... We don’t talk about foundations when you describe a house, we hardly think of it unless there’s a problem with the foundation. I think. But definitely an area that needs more exploration.


Ideas we marinate in. Concepts we're obsessed with. Mental spaces, whether from songs or books, or of our own creation. 

There's a great Ann Patchett quote, "Writing is a job, a talent, but it's also the place to go in your head. It is the imaginary friend you drink your tea with in the afternoon." Not specifically the writing aspect - not every INFJ is going to create an external component, like writing or painting - but the idea that if I'm sharing ideas with you, it's because I'm trying to show you where I live and what is important to me. I want you to visit my world. I want you to know and befriend the people I have my afternoon tea with.


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## OdinsVardogr (Mar 21, 2015)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?
> 
> Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?
> 
> Type as well, please and thank you


Funny questions. If the words are worded differently the outcomes are different when the meaning stays the same.

I do not like the idea of being put on a pedestal by my partner. More than like, I en_joy_ being put on the pedestal by my partner, however the meaning pedestal has a exhibitionist status to it that is not me. I enjoy being lifted by my partner. There remains an intimicy to it. In sharper more exaggerated words to cover the meaning "lifted" may have not stretched to meet "pedestal" - I enjoy being worshiped by my partner.

...and of course the opposite tends to and would be true. My partner is INFP

Thank you


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Windblownhair said:


> Great question! Tough question. This part stuck out to me in its foreignness:
> 
> The idea of being understood so well by someone else appeals to me greatly! Creating that world by sharing memories and feelings is the part where I veer down a different path.
> 
> ...


I do see INFJs experience emotions as you describe. I’m sure you’ve seen that it is different from how Fi experiences emotions. Not better. I never think that. Whoever first taught me about MBTI explained it from a “Different and equal, just strengths and accompanying weaknesses” perspective and she did that so well that I thought it was why MBTI has been created was to explain the strengths on the other side of the coin. I really appreciate you saying exactly these things since I said I don’t know how this works for you guys, what was the inside out on this? I think this gives me a lot to work on. Do you guys already know how it works for NFP? So what I’m saying is not anything new? But you guys usually always feel like nothing is new... though... I’m going to keep on because I am very interested in how this all works in NFJ and I think it has deep implications. 

TI doms have told me that talking about their TI is bonding. Actually I think @Enigma also showed that same connection in her post. Wanting that connection of being known now seems universal from what you’ve added. 

For the Ne-SI axis our experiences are what build us and even though the resulting concepts are what my dominant function is.... huh... I think I’m onto something very big here... my Ne ideas are not what build me, they are what I can build in the outside world as a result of everything I learn and put together from my SI. It’s the SI experience or memory that I can use to build my concepts, but the resulting concepts didn’t build me. Each experience did. So how bonding is it when you have the same experiences together that created the same feelings? That’s what seems super bonding.. I guess even if the same feelings were not created in the other... but that’s where understanding all of this has deep implications. The NFP was being built by the experience also by how the person with us experiences that experience. There is no separation between experience and learning for SI. 

Okay, I think I can see the contrast in this from what you said, but I have questions. You feel built by the resulting concept? What if someone else is explaining the concept to you? Does their concept build yours too? Or do you have to come up with it yourself for that to be true. Of course with TI that will get built by yourself probably using the concepts and that would make sense with what you feel is personal. My Fi framework is built as a result of my experiences. What hurt me I then use to understand what I believe would hurt others. 

I remember the most foreign post to me that I’ve ever seen on the INFJ forum is the thread made by @Snowflake Minuet about “Firsts” and how they really didn’t mean much to INFJs... and for Si, all “firsts” create who you are. This also effects how we tell stories about ourselves and others, which I’m sure is noticeable. We will ask things like “How old were you?” Because we can gage how impactful the experience was at that age versus a different age, tracing the experience through the story.... all those firsts being kind of chronological or sequential as SI is. I need to also ask INTJs and SFPs and STPs to understand more. 

Believe me I do not see “better” in this discussion. I hope you didn’t sense that I thought that, but just completely unknown. Nobody has ever discussed this stuff in the literature as far as I know. I hope it is not offensive. I would hope this discussion is wanted. ... because this discussion and additional discussions on this are needed, imo. These differences which are often so assumed to not exist can explain a lot of hurt. 


Is this all okay to talk about more? Maybe not here? Let me know, INFJs, who have interest. @Windblownhair. Let me know privately. For some reason it feels like I’m asking a lot, but I can’t put my finger on that either.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Fair warning, I'm going to move around your post a bit to get to the first stuff first:



Llyralen said:


> I do see INFJs experience emotions as you describe. I’m sure you’ve seen that it is different from how Fi experiences emotions. Not better. I never think that. Whoever first taught me about MBTI explained it from a “Different and equal, just strengths and accompanying weaknesses” perspective and she did that so well that I thought it was why MBTI has been created was to explain the strengths on the other side of the coin.





Llyralen said:


> Is this all okay to talk about more? Maybe not here? Let me know, INFJs, who have interest and ability to see it. Because of course there is a lot to explore here, but it’s delicate stuff.


I'd love to. I didn't feel at all that lines were being drawn along better vs. worse lines. Simply that we can speak to the cognitive processes that we understand from the inside out, or draw observations about the ones we see from the outside in. And compare notes 😊



Llyralen said:


> So how bonding is it when you have the same experiences together?


Just doing things together doesn't do a ton for me. Of course, if it's someone I already have an affinity for, like a close friend or family member, I'm going to love the time spent together. But I don't feel like I walk out of the experience with a feeling like "Our relationship is stronger." 

Experiences together where we do something or say something to make me understand the other person better do make me feel closer to them. The first thing that popped in my head when I read this is a friend of mine that is a huge, loud guy. Like an absolute bear of a guy, shouts when he speaks, nicknames everyone, and jokes or is sarcastic 99% of the time. I found him very intimidating to be around when I first met him. 

One day we were doing some construction, but he and I were sitting around waiting on the actual professionals to do something. It was the first time we'd had a conversation that was serious, and somehow we ended up talking about being introverts vs. extroverts, and he tells me he's an introvert (which blew my mind). The rest of the story was that as a small child, he knew he was going to be bullied when he got in school because of his looks. So his goal was to have a faster mouth and better comebacks than anyone else out there. He truly did succeed. 

But that was the piece of the puzzle I needed to go from finding him intimidating to recognizing what an an amazing person he is. 

That's the sort of shared experience that connects me to someone. 


Llyralen said:


> Okay, I think I can see the contrast in this from what you said. You feel built by the resulting concept? What if someone else is explaining the concept to you? Does it build you too? Or do you have to come up with it yourself for that to be true. Of course with TI that will get built by yourself probably using the concepts and that would make sense with what you feel is personal.


What does built mean? Like my interior space gets larger?

Baha I'm going to answer even if I'm on the wrong tack...it's easier for me to integrate knowledge that is connected to something I already know. Like at least it can get filed somewhere instead of floating around aimlessly.

I've read a couple car manuals because it bothered me that my husband would be telling me things about cars and I either couldn't connect the information to anything or wasn't even holding onto it. I've still got precious little practical knowledge, but enough theoretical knowledge is there I can file things away properly.


Llyralen said:


> I remember the most foreign post to me that I’ve ever seen on the INFJ forum is the thread made by @Snowflake Minuet about “Firsts” and how they really didn’t mean much to you guys... and for Si, firsts create who you are. This also effects how we tell stories about ourselves and others, which I’m sure is noticeable. We will ask things like “How old were you?” Because we can gage how impactful the experience was at that age versus a different age.... all those firsts being kind of chronological.


Hahahah I think I remember that one! I'm going to have to dig it out again, I'm sure it'll be a fun read.

I like that! I hadn't connected that line of questioning with Si, but that makes sense.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


> Great question! Tough question. This part stuck out to me in its foreignness:
> 
> The idea of being understood so well by someone else appeals to me greatly! Creating that world by sharing memories and feelings is the part where I veer down a different path.
> 
> ...



I'm a bit speechless after reading this, @Windblownhair . All you've shared here is so incredibly accurate. I'm frozen processing it, actually, because it's so on the mark. It's perfect.

@Llyralen - A lot of what she says here would apply to the conversation we had on your idea of "stickiness", no? It fits well with your interpretation of Fe. I haven't read on to your response yet, but I hope this does a better job explaining things in an understandable way to you than I've been able to do.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


> Just doing things together doesn't do a ton for me. Of course, if it's someone I already have an affinity for, like a close friend or family member, I'm going to love the time spent together. But I don't feel like I walk out of the experience with a feeling like "Our relationship is stronger."
> 
> *Experiences together where we do something or say something to make me understand the other person better do make me feel closer to them. *The first thing that popped in my head when I read this is a friend of mine that is a huge, loud guy. Like an absolute bear of a guy, shouts when he speaks, nicknames everyone, and jokes or is sarcastic 99% of the time. I found him very intimidating to be around when I first met him.
> 
> ...


A thousand yeses to the bolded. A THOUSAND plus infinity




Windblownhair said:


> Hahahah I think I remember that one! I'm going to have to dig it out again, I'm sure it'll be a fun read.
> 
> I like that! I hadn't connected that line of questioning with Si, but that makes sense.


It was a good thread. I'm always a bit surprised that people put so much value on the idea of "firsts", it's so foreign to me. For the most part, they don't really stick with me or hold more value than other experiences.


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

OdinsVardogr said:


> Funny questions. If the words are worded differently the outcomes are different when the meaning stays the same.
> 
> I do not like the idea of being put on a pedestal by my partner. More than like, I en_joy_ being put on the pedestal by my partner, however the meaning pedestal has a exhibitionist status to it that is not me. I enjoy being lifted by my partner. There remains an intimicy to it. In sharper more exaggerated words to cover the meaning "lifted" may have not stretched to meet "pedestal" - I enjoy being worshiped by my partner.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing! I'm glad a couple of INFP's have chimed in, it helps me understand the INFP's POV better.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

Kelly Kapowski said:


> I'm a bit speechless after reading this, @Windblownhair . All you've shared here is so incredibly accurate. I'm frozen processing it, actually, because it's so on the mark. It's perfect.


That makes me so happy!


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## Kelly Kapowski (Apr 26, 2018)

Windblownhair said:


> That makes me so happy!


Well good. Because reading it made me so happy 🤗


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

Nope, being on a pedestal I get a vision of a trophy. As long as you do what they desire from your behavior (their preconceived idea of your behavior) and if you go against it, you fall. It's very hard to be that.

Kind of ironic too because all in one swoop it's someone who's applying narcism in a way (a willingness to control people and a ruthlessness in getting their needs met, one small misstep and that perfection they've built around you cracks) you're not the perfect statue on a pedestal of great behavior. They can say stuff to you, shame on you for defending your principles, you let me down, or stuff like "you're not as perfect as I thought you were." I'm always like, I'm a human being what else were you expecting? We get this a lot being ENFPs. We're supposed to throw-up rainbows and shit glitter but all people see is the rainbow and glitter part but don't realize we're human beings and have puke and shit just like the rest of the animal kingdom. And the irony is while they're placing you on a pedestal, they're also saying they're not worthy or equal to you. And of course, it's always I think less of your statement while you're defending something and they completely miss the mark on what you're defending. So, therefore, you're not a nice and exemplary person of society anymore in their eyes. Que Que. Somehow they're expecting you to feel upset by their parenting comment. Like please, holier than thou attitudes wash over me and around me and I just walk away. I don't fit with everyone and I don't force that fit. I know I went on a rant but that's what it feels like when you're an ENFP. They have this specific typist idea (have you up on their pedestal) as a good member of society and then bam we don't pass the test because now we're just a human being. It's like they're shocked we're not 100% happy, 100% sunshine and laughter, and 100% their entertainment. When you're 20 you kind of wonder if something is wrong with you, you're this weirdo not belonging. As you get older you just realize that it's ok to be you. You're not perfect and they aren't either.

So no I don't want to be placed on a pedestal (I've been placed there a lot) and I don't want to place my loved one there either. I want to recognize him for his mistakes but also know we both bring a lot to the table, we're both equal. He knows I have good days and bad days. We both know we're not perfect.

There is not one single person on this planet that is perfect, people who think this way, I normally avoid. Complementing my physical features and loving my bubbly care-free sweetness but not realizing my intelligence or value will get your Fi-Te bitch slapped. I want to roll my eyes each time I get the "I can't believe you're not 100% nice and dripping of empathy for everyone", Step off your righteous behavior.

Who would want that unrealistic relationship? I love to dream in the clouds but I feel I'm slightly healthy mentally and I can still maintain a distinct difference between fantasy and reality.

Older ENFP (F).

I've also noticed a lot of ENFPs answered the same way I did. It's probably because we get this time and again. Ohh you're not happy 100% of the time, what a liar. Like I like to be happy a lot I never said that's all that I was, if that's the perception the other person has of me, that's not my fault. I just assumed people knew human beings can have a plethora of emotions and thoughts about a magnitude of different subjects, not all of it is going to align with yours.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

@Windblownhair 
“Just doing things together doesn't do a ton for me. Of course, if it's someone I already have an affinity for, like a close friend or family member, I'm going to love the time spent together. But I don't feel like I walk out of the experience with a feeling like "Our relationship is stronger." 



* not an Fe user but I can relate to this - I
May do things together with a certain person many times over but the connection or shared experience of understanding the other person better is what makes the relationship stronger. 


Out of curiosity what are your thoughts on child friendship that weaves in and out of your life ? Like say your BFF from elementary school moved and would call you whenever they’re in town - does consistency matter much for you for a friendship to last or do you feel that once you established that bond the person bc someone important in your life regardless the fact of how often you see or hear from them? 

I’m trying to see if functions deals anything at all with how one view friendship 

Also do friendship bc stronger or less important as you age ? 




“ Experiences together where we do something or say something to make me understand the other person better do make me feel closer to them. The first thing that popped in my head when I read this is a friend of mine that is a huge, loud guy. Like an absolute bear of a guy, shouts when he speaks, nicknames everyone, and jokes or is sarcastic 99% of the time. I found him very intimidating to be around when I first met him. 

One day we were doing some construction, but he and I were sitting around waiting on the actual professionals to do something. It was the first time we'd had a conversation that was serious, and somehow we ended up talking about being introverts vs. extroverts, and he tells me he's an introvert (which blew my mind). The rest of the story was that as a small child, he knew he was going to be bullied when he got in school because of his looks. So his goal was to have a faster mouth and better comebacks than anyone else out there. He truly did succeed. 

But that was the piece of the puzzle I needed to go from finding him intimidating to recognizing what an an amazing person he is. 

That's the sort of shared experience that connects me to someone. “


* For my case it’s when the person genuinely show support and trust in me that our relationship grow stronger - for ex in high school i had an infj close guy friend , we connected immediately but it wasn’t until he shared with me his strength fear and opened up to me that our relationship became closer . More after his parents kicked him out for being homosexual- he lived with me for a while. 

“I like that! I hadn't connected that line of questioning with Si, but that makes sense”



Si for me pertains to meaning behind a subject matter or shared experience that are unforgettable bc it’s so much fun or when the other individual show their trusts in me , once the connection and friendship have been established it remains that way ( regardless the fact of how often I hear or see the individual). Certain songs /environments/ article of clothing or gifts that belonged /were from that individual would trigger past memories . Once a person entered my life I’ll welcome them back at any time . I tend to have good memories on the persons interests /worries /strength or flaws. Their birthdate or where they’re from though is a totally different topic. 

How about you ? How does se works for you ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## UraniaIsis (Nov 26, 2014)

No and No. Female, INFJ.


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## Windblownhair (Aug 12, 2013)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Out of curiosity what are your thoughts on child friendship that weaves in and out of your life ? Like say your BFF from elementary school moved and would call you whenever they’re in town - does consistency matter much for you for a friendship to last or do you feel that once you established that bond the person bc someone important in your life regardless the fact of how often you see or hear from them?
> 
> Also do friendship bc stronger or less important as you age ?


I do have one childhood friend that I see about once a year. I have a conference I attend in her city, and if we can manage it, we’ll meet up for dinner. It’s nice seeing her. I like knowing what has happened in her life and it makes me happy when good things come to her.

We weren’t BFFs from childhood, though...more like our mothers were BFFs and we sort of inherited a relationship. Once we went from being geographically close, and attending the same schools, the friendship died down to what I would consider a natural stasis point. We do miss years here and there and it isn’t a disappointment...just like we’ll try again the next year.

On the other end of the spectrum...my best friends moved across the country about 3-4 years ago. We’ve really made an effort to stay connected, visit each other, send presents and letters, schedule facetimes that end up last half the day, etc. It’s been an important relationship for all of us and we do make the effort to stay connected. I’m not sure if this is necessarily an age thing? Or knowing the value of a strong friendship and working to keep it? It’s hard to tell because I don’t have a strong friendship like that from a younger age to compare it with. 



ai.tran.75 said:


> Si for me pertains to meaning behind a subject matter or shared experience that are unforgettable bc it’s so much fun or when the other individual show their trusts in me , once the connection and friendship have been established it remains that way ( regardless the fact of how often I hear or see the individual). Certain songs /environments/ article of clothing or gifts that belonged /were from that individual would trigger past memories . Once a person entered my life I’ll welcome them back at any time . I tend to have good memories on the persons interests /worries /strength or flaws. Their birthdate or where they’re from though is a totally different topic.
> 
> How about you ? How does se works for you ?


Hmmm. I’m honestly not sure about that. I can say that isn’t familiar to me...like if objects are embued with meaning, it’s more a personally meaningful meaning and not a memory transcribed on them. 

As far as whether or not someone would be welcomed back, or what level of closeness it would be, that definitely would depend on who they are (character wise) and why they wanted to reignite the friendship. I mean if it lapsed in the first place, there may have been a good reason for it. 🤷‍♀️


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Just getting back to the actual question... not that this all doesn’t come in somewhere. Also the difference between judging and perceiving is a big factor.. but so is every single function culminating in a very different experience with bonding in general here... but anyway... Getting back to just the question, my hunch is that this guy has higher Ni (I could be wrong though) and I appreciate what he has to say on this subject a LOT. His presentation is funny and it feels heart-warming to me, especially for it’s realistic and human view of how awful we all are to deal with and that love gets us through. 
I see this video as “essential watching”. Everyone should watch this... but especially NJs imo.


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## Vivid Melody (Apr 25, 2011)

*Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?*
Yes, I love it when my partner kisses my ass. In all seriousness though, I assume what is meant by that phrase is to overlook a person's flaws in favor of either their true or projected qualities (romanticizing), to basically have an illusion of someone -- which I'll never be on board for in either direction. Flattery can make me suspicious, but once I know it's genuine and I know they see me as a whole, I'll take as much of that shit as I can get lol. I also like to flatter my partner with authentic/unforced compliments.

*Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?*
No, it's nice when you don't have to lie about how great someone is.

*Type as well, please and thank you *
INFJ - F


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## odinthor (Mar 22, 2017)

Hmm. Does "put on a pedestal" necessarily imply "unworthily"?

If we choose unworthy people, then of course it's wrong to put them on a pedestal as if they were something they weren't.

But if the pedestal you put them on is commensurate with their merit, then of course they should be put on a pedestal: Anyone and everyone should be treasured for their merits.

Sometimes we correctly see attributes in people which others don't see and which they don't see themselves. Recognizing these attributes gives them life to develop. It opens a door which would otherwise remain shut.

Many people--most people--are complacent and resent it when they sense--consciously or otherwise--that others see in them an aptitude which, recognized, seems to obligate them to fulfill the promise of that aptitude. They do themselves an injustice.

*Do I like being put on a pedestal by my partner?* Sure, if it's a just pedestal (see above).

*Do I tend to put my partner on a pedestal? *I recognize and honor merit and aptitude.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Vivid Melody said:


> *Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?*
> Yes, I love it when my partner kisses my ass. In all seriousness though, I assume what is meant by that phrase is to overlook a person's flaws in favor of either their true or projected qualities (romanticizing), to basically have an illusion of someone -- which I'll never be on board for in either direction. Flattery can make me suspicious, but once I know it's genuine and I know they see me as a whole, I'll take as much of that shit as I can get lol. I also like to flatter my partner with authentic/unforced compliments.
> 
> *Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?*
> ...


It's so nice to see you! I've missed you around here very much!. I bet you have too many a tags from me, don't worry you don't have to comment on them unless you want to. I know it's been a while. I hope all is going well. =)


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

This is an interesting question because Helen Fisher said something like that idealization as I understand it is exactly what people need to keep their relationships longlasting. You just _focus _on what you like, more or less ignore a lot of faults._ Positive delutions_, I think it was called.
@17:14


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## BenevolentBitterBleeding (Mar 16, 2015)

Yes, and yes. Despite never being able to live up to it, I'd want to be held accountable to a certain standard, and as well to be thought of as the best version of whatever it is _I could_ be. Putting a partner on pedestal is only natural, otherwise there is no differentiation between them and anyone else you might know.

The unhealthy type... :o


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

> Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?


Only in the sense that I want to be the one they actually want and cherish.
How am I any different from any other random guy to them if they're not placing me higher?
I don't think it'd be wise to trust a partner who can't see me as more valuable.

But I'm not saying I want to be treated like royalty or something (....well okay, that can be nice sometimes lol).



> Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?


Yes. Of course. They're my world, the same applies with what I said above, things should be fair so we ought to both be on some dimensionally even pedestal.




> Type as well, please and thank you


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## Dissenter (Jul 31, 2017)

Llyralen said:


> It's so nice to see you! I've missed you around here very much!. I bet you have too many a tags from me, don't worry you don't have to comment on them unless you want to. I know it's been a while. I hope all is going well. =)


I've replied to both your emails. Are my replies reaching you? If not, check your spam folder. I also just sent you a Zoom request. It'll be better for instant messages.


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## Llyralen (Sep 4, 2017)

Dissenter said:


> I've replied to both your emails. Are my replies reaching you? If not, check your spam folder. I also just sent you a Zoom request. It'll be better for instant messages.


Yay! Got the emails! I will check the Zoom request. I will write you back today. .


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## Glittris (May 15, 2020)

I strongly disagree to be put on a pedestal, it gives the impression of over-hyped expectations, which in the end will result in a wide disappointment since I just stick to my plan and does not answer to even half of the feedback that my admirers give. I do not like ass-licking and superfluous admiration either.

No other person is pedestal-worthy. If you have not proved yourself, why should I treat yourself differently?


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## 556155 (Apr 29, 2020)

*Do you like the idea of being put on a pedestal by your partner?*
The problem with pedestals is that they tend to be accompanied by expectations.
So I'd say it depends on the form idealization takes, sometimes I've found that some people seem to fall in love not so much with who you are but with the potential they see in you. It creates a lot of pressure to actually fulfill those promises and to avoid disappointing the person. It's a bit stifling when you haven't decided yourself yet which kind of person you want to become and after all, the possibilities in that regard can be many.
If it's about having a special place in someone's heart apart from others (a sacred place), and for this someone to maintain his affection and loyalty for you even when you're at your lowest, yes I'm on board.

*Do you tend to put your partner(s) on a pedestal?*
I don't think so because I don't think they're inherently superior to everyone else, they just happen to be the person I have the strongest emotional connection with and that I love the most intensely. How do you gauge the superiority of people anyways ? There's as many criteria for this as there are people on this earth ... However due to the special place they have for me, I tend to really want to defend my partners against undue criticism and being disparaged. I also like it when I can find exactly the compliment they waited for in the depth of their hearts and to offer it to them.

*Type as well, please and thank you*
INFP


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

INFP female. I don't like the idea of idealizing someone - I just want to see the real them, I want to love them for who they really are and to be loved just as I am. I don't want pressure to live up to expectations that are beyond me and constantly worry about letting someone down. However, it's also good when your partner has more confidence in you than you do in yourself, it's very encouraging to know someone knows your flaws and has seen you at your worst, but still believes in your potential. 

I've found I really dislike being looked up to for things I don't see as particularly amazing about myself. Like sure I have some artistic ability but it's really nothing remarkble in comparrison to many other people out there. While I'd like that ability to be appreciated, someone being awed by it just makes me feel like ....(how do I say this diplomatically) they have no base of knowledge to actually make a judgement from, and therefore their praise means nothing. 

I don't think I put people on pedestals. At least I don't feel like I've ever felt like I was let down by finding out someone wasn't as great as I thought they were. I'm not sure I've known anyone who turned out to not be what I saw them to be, so either I've remained deluded or I've not been imagining what's not there.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Offcourse I want to be put on a pedestal.
I want to be mirrored in a positive way


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

We were watching and adaptation of _Far from the Madding Crowd_ the other day, and I had read it a while ago, but looking at it again, I realized how much this story was about the problem that comes with overly idealizing someone. Men who put Bathsheba on a pedestel, due to her great beauty, and idealize her, but Farmer Oak was the only man who really grew to love her, because he was greatly aware of her darkest flaws and accepted them rather than deceive himself that she was some perfect angel due to her beauty.


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