# Gender neutral washrooms, Yay or Nay?



## Maybe (Sep 10, 2016)

Why not just one bathroom for everyone so that everyone is equally "uncomfortable"?


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

Maybe said:


> Why not just one bathroom for everyone so that everyone is equally "uncomfortable"?


We could even force them to share a toilet. Like what my cousin and me did when we were younger!


* *




It ended with me getting covered in his urine


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## SgtPepper (Nov 22, 2016)

Yes. 

There'sa gender neutral bathroom at my university strangely enough. There girls won't set foot there though.


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## Queen of Cups (Feb 26, 2010)

Been there, done that.

No big deal.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

I don't care as long as we continue to have a ladies' room in which males are not allowed.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

Cal said:


> We could even force them to share a toilet. Like what my cousin and me did when we were younger!


Excuse me but aren't most toilet seats standardized in width? How would one find one big enough for two?
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vinniebob said:


> if there are gender neutral people out there then yes
> if you have no gender then you need to see a doctor ASAP


A doctor who would let you use his/her toilet.
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MsBrightside said:


> t... men won't probably want to use urinals in a gender neutral shared open bathroom situation, and then there's the pervs to think about..


You mean the pervs should have their own bathroom???
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OrangeAppled said:


> They made all the single stall restrooms in California gender neutral and now public restrooms are EXTRA GROSS. Men’s rooms were typically more disgusting and now they are all that disgusting since we have to share with men. There is pee on the floor. EW. The seats are left up too. UGH. Last thing I want to do is touch a public toilet seat to put it down. I’m sure men are thrilled to see feminine products in the trash also.
> 
> No one thought of the hygeine and practicality issues or what best serves the MAJORITY of people. It’s catering to a few outliers who make a big fuss about their needs while trampling everyone else’s. Ugh.


Are you proposing two bathrooms types? One for clean people and one for dirty people?
=================================


I forgot to give my own opinion on all this. Seems to me it would be less costly to have one bathroom for all ... provided it is made big enough. Most people are mature enough to handle this. Cameras* should be installed (not a pun) to encourage everyone washes their hands and is not messy. As for pervs, they are in the far minority and should not have much voice in the final decision.
=================================


*Later: I only just thought of this as pervs have to go too. Pervs could be trained to review the camera work in private every 24 hours. That way everyone should be satisfied. This scheme could work. Let me know. The only thing not worked out is what to do with unaccompanied children.


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

BigApplePi said:


> Excuse me but aren't most toilet seats standardized in width? How would one find one big enough for two?


 My cousin was a boy, so he just had to stand up.
Still, not fun to be covered in urine. My mom laughed when she saw me.

My cousin was also the kid who got me to try out watercolor paints. They taste quite nasty, but that's a story for another day.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

I demand a species-neutral '_dog friendly_' waste facility; so that I _needn't_ avoid taking him on more lovely outings/adventures - due to his excessive urination / shitting problem, when I am in the lady's facility, he must have his _doggy throne_ next to my own.

[My suggestion is 'species' nuetral K-9] facilities with artificially simulated scented trees and/or plastic fire hydrants with nitrogren neutrilizing chemical(s) and customized hip-massagers/ear-scratchers for larger jointed K-9. (Janitors / restroom custodials can be implemented for sanity improvements - such technologies can positioned next to the Tampax™ dispensers).

____

Com.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

BigApplePi said:


> Are you proposing two bathrooms types? One for clean people and one for dirty people?


Nope, I said the women’s public bathrooms were cleaner before we had to share them with men. Individual men may not be dirty, but on average they are making the bathrooms nastier. This is an observation women are making. We quickly have noticed a difference in the cleanliness level. 

So I’m proposing that are different bathrooms based on GENITALIA because some poeple pee standing up and others often have blood coming out of them on a monthly basis, etc. This affects HOW people use the toilet. This combined with males being dirtier on average, for whatever reason. 

Im not proposing it as a new idea, but one which worked for a long time and suited the VAST MAJORITY of people much better than the current situation forced upon us by an extremely entitled and selfish minority.


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## Sir Kanra (Jun 27, 2017)

A lot of men are gross when it comes to infesting the bathrooms as they do with crude writings and other unmentionable things... Ugh.. Tis why I avoid bathrooms.

I'm more gender fluid if anything. But even so, I'll go to the bathroom my physical gender suggests because, well... Upsetting the current system of how this shit works will bring up a lot of unnecessary issues when if you ask me it's not a big deal. But still, I'm a lot cleaner than guys and I'd prefer not to share their bathrooms.

The only annoying thing I instantly think to is how woman seeing men with them there will be a lot of complaints, glares, and god knows what else bringing forth awkwardness and such which is another tedious thing to deal with because if you judge by physicality then I assume any "pervert" could come in and stir the pot. Blah, blah


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

OrangeAppled said:


> I honestly didn’t care until I experienced the consequences.
> 
> They made all the single stall restrooms in California gender neutral and now public restrooms are EXTRA GROSS. Men’s rooms were typically more disgusting and now they are all that disgusting since we have to share with men. There is pee on the floor. EW. The seats are left up too. UGH. Last thing I want to do is touch a public toilet seat to put it down. I’m sure men are thrilled to see feminine products in the trash also.
> 
> No one thought of the hygeine and practicality issues or what best serves the MAJORITY of people. It’s catering to a few outliers who make a big fuss about their needs while trampling everyone else’s. Ugh.


You know, I always bought into the idea that men's bathrooms were more disgusting, until I worked at a grocery store in high school and had to clean the bathrooms.

Men's rooms were okay. The biggest issue I had wet paper towels on the ground. 

Women's bathrooms... dear god. There was one day that there was literally shit on the walls. ON THE WALLS. How's that even possible?


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## ninjahitsawall (Feb 1, 2013)

You mean like, not single use ones? 
Nay
..especially with the way gender politics are nowadays. I can only imagine that being exacerbated.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

First of all I would like to thank @*Cal * for making this thread. Everyone knows how important eating (input) is. There is no reason why a little time should not be devoted to evacuation (output) as both are important.

So far no one has responded to my video idea. When people see that little eye pointing at them they will be extra careful as to respectful behavior. The camera doesn't even have to do real recordings. A fake one will do. It would be like the sign I have on my front door: "This establishment is protected by Bulldog Protection Agency." It isn't even real.

Speaking of signs, why not have a signs above urinals saying "Please finish before you close up" or something to that effect? It would contribute to clean mindedness. 

Incidentally I'm not against creative writing on stall walls. When I see someone has written "call 212-xxx-xxxx for a good time" I find that cheery. (I never call myself as I'm shy, but if you are extroverted ...).


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## Jaune (Jul 11, 2013)

Waste of money in my opinion, and I think it's stupid to build it just because some people are uncomfortable.


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## Little Bee (Nov 22, 2017)

I hate public restrooms as it is. As they are laid out now? No way. If you increased the privacy in individual stalls I could see it being possible.


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## Miss Bingley (Jun 28, 2013)

Eh, I don't mind. My university has gender neutral bathrooms in each dorm, and I've been to enough crowded frat parties to have seen a lot of random guys with their pants down in the restroom so....I'm indifferent


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Cal said:


> That's what I call, a waste of money.
> Either way, that's not how the poll works, and not to forget that still counts as a yay or nay for gender neutral washrooms(since adding a third one would still be adding a gender neutral washroom, which by logic I will take as a yay).


making people comfortable is never a waste of money! 

Throwing money away in pointless war... that's a waste of money!


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Yes it is a good idea


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

General Lee Awesome said:


> making people comfortable is never a waste of money!
> 
> Throwing money away in pointless war... that's a waste of money!


Okay sure then. So I guess everyone should spend millions of dollars on giving me a mansion and my own island, since that would make me comfortable.

You are supposed to spend money wisely, not waste it on making people who live perfectly normal lives "comfortable".
And what about those who aren't comfortable with this? You ever thought of that?


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## Introvertia (Feb 6, 2016)

Yay, because (gender politics aside) the queue for women's bathroom is endless.

Wait.. but then the same women will be queuing the neutral bathrooms as well, including me.

Do whatever you want, my logic crumbled in a second.


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

ponpiri said:


> airplane bathrooms are unisex
> restrooms on buses are unisex
> porta potties are unisex
> 
> "Gender-neutral" restrooms are an issue because of the name. If you want to turn someone off of a reasonable concept, just say that it helps to benefit a group they disagree with and you're good.


Those are also single use, so technically your post doesn't apply to what people are talking about.

Sorry if that came off as rude, but you have to put that into mind when talking about these things.


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## ponpiri (Apr 30, 2017)

Cal said:


> Those are also single use, so technically your post doesn't apply to what people are talking about.
> 
> Sorry if that came off as rude, but you have to put that into mind when talking about these things.


I already answered that "single use" argument.

Like GLA said, you should have included all that information in the OP instead of assuming others will know what people "have in mind" when they say things. Otherwise, it comes across as you moving the goalpost when a logical error is pointed out.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Robert2928 said:


> Everything is gender neutral when you don't care however...I still vote no.
> 
> Lines for the "ladies room" tend to be longer (maybe because they go in groups and do whatever they do in there) Men tend to go in, handle their business and come out which is probably why the wait time is so low. Why give that up?


The reason is because ladies cannot "hold it" for as long. If we do we get urinary tract infections. Yes, UTI's affect both genders they are much more common and easier for women to contract because:

"_ women are much more likely to contract one, says the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases. That's because we have a shorter urethra, which makes it all too easy for UTI-causing bacteria to pass through it and invade the bladder. No fair. _
https://www.prevention.com/health/8-most-common-causes-of-utis
( Not the most reliable source, but it's pretty much women's common knowledge. Look it up anywhere other than a MOGTOW site and you'll find the same) 

In my experience ( Non vapid adult women) often entire the bathroom in groups because when " May as well go if you are" even if we do not have to go immediately, it is a good idea to go when it is convenient ( ex a large park/event" who wants to make that trek AND wait in lines twice) in that way, lines are a self perpetuating issue.


I'm also glad you mentioned this. I am -mostly-only uncomfortable about trans people in locker rooms. Bathrooms, I care...slightly less
( Because not all Trans people are meek victims. I have been physically shoved out of the way of a one-stall woman's bathroom by a guy in a dress more than once.) but the lines are an issue as well.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

ponpiri said:


> Ok, so the issue is sharing a bathroom with other genders over an extended period of time now even though
> 
> -that's been done since outhouses were a thing
> -your family uses the same restroom despite gender differences
> ...


I meant at the same time. Like multiple people being in the bathroom at the exact same moment in time. I don't understand what your last example refers to.



> What's the problem with emulating that behavior in public restrooms? Seems like the "issue" is not wanting to share that space with trans people.
> 
> So far @Robert2928 is the only person that gave a sound, practical reason against it.


I wasn't giving any reasons against anything; I was pointing out that single-use restrooms are not what the OP is talking about.


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

ponpiri said:


> I already answered that "single use" argument.
> 
> Like GLA said, you should have included all that information in the OP instead of assuming others will know what people "have in mind" when they say things. Otherwise, it comes across as you moving the goalpost when a logical error is pointed out.


If you don't know what the thread is referring to, then don't click on it.
Unless if this issue wasn't so mainstream, then I would of explained it. But due to this topic being very popular, and something that most people already know about, then why should I explain again?

That's like making a thread about whether or not you like pizza, and then making a long paragraph describing what a pizza is for those who don't know about them. It's both time consuming, and profoundly useless, considering the fact that both:

A. Most people already know about what a pizza is.

B. Because if someone doesn't know what a pizza is, then the chances that they will even click on the thread is very low.

Considering the amount of debates and media coverage on this topic, not to forget the shit storms happening on social media, focusing around this controversy, it would technically be highly likely that most of us already know about this.

There is no point in wasting time trying explain something that most people already know about.
If you don't know about what's going on, then don't post on it! Most of the people here already know what I was referring too, and didn't need an explanation on what's going on. The only person lost on what's going on here is GLA.

Everyone else has already heard about the controversy I am referring too, because of how popular of a subject it is.

Also, if you knew they were single use, then mentioning them dies provide you with much of an argument at all.


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## ponpiri (Apr 30, 2017)

Benty Badass said:


> I meant at the same time. Like multiple people being in the bathroom at the exact same moment in time. I don't understand what your last example refers to.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't giving any reasons against anything; I was pointing out that single-use restrooms are not what the OP is talking about.


The last example was just in case a smart aleck says 'but the ppl we use the restroom with at home aren't strangers' to shift the goalpost further. My comments were a build-up from the first one I left about unisex bathrooms. Yes, you pointed out that OP wasn't talking about "single use" so I responded with examples of both genders using the same "continuous use" restrooms.

Now that you've specified "multiple people being in the bathroom at the exact same moment in time," I'm sure that OP will piggy back off that comment even though - again - all this criteria wasn't in her original post.


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

ponpiri said:


> The last example was just in case a smart aleck says 'but the ppl we use the restroom with at home aren't strangers' to shift the goalpost further. My comments were a build-up from the first one I left about unisex bathrooms. Yes, you pointed out that OP wasn't talking about "single use" so I responded with examples of both genders using the same "continuous use" restrooms.
> 
> Now that you've specified "multiple people being in the bathroom at the exact same moment in time," I'm sure that OP will piggy back off that comment even though - again - all this criteria wasn't in her original post.


Boy, you really are the definition of unreasonable, aren't you?

Read the post above.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Cal said:


> Just go onto YouTube, they have a ton of videos talking about this controversy.
> 
> And how do you know? Your experiences differ from mine, so that's an empty claim.
> 
> If you actually watched media, then maybe you would know.


What is your experience? 

not really an "empty" claim.. but whatever

So basically you wanted me to read your "mind"? because there are many ways to talk about this issue.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

BigApplePi said:


> I thought I was gender neutral until I saw this thread. I went to see my doctor to ask him what gender I was. He said, "Take your clothes off." I told him that couldn't tell anything as either gender was able to take their clothes off. He asked me why I wanted to know. I told him I needed to go to the bathroom and some thread on PerC was asking me what I preferred. He told me I could use his bathroom but I think it was a trick to get me to see him more often.:sad:


I had to do the same thing
turns out I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body:shocked:


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

General Lee Awesome said:


> What is your experience?


 That I have met many people who are still uncomfortable with the idea of Co-ed change rooms, even if they were labeled as "family change rooms". 





> So basically you wanted me to read your "mind"? because there are many ways to talk about this issue.


No, I basically think most people would already know what I am referring too, based upon the fact that this issue is something that is very popular to talk about.
There are many videos and articles talking about this controversy on both sides.

The fact that most people already know what this thread is referring to, should already be enough evidence to say ghat most people have already heard about this issue before. The only person lost here is you.

Go on YouTube and you can find a lot of videos on it, and then from there make up your mind about it. Afterwards, you can post your stance in the issue.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Cal said:


> That I have met many people who are still uncomfortable with the idea of Co-ed change rooms, even if they were labeled as "family change rooms".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


being uncomfortable is something people can get over and had gotten over. MY point was, people were able to get over the uni-sex change room very quickly because of a label. 

I know about the "controversy" but you didn't say which "unisex" bathroom you were talking about. 

There are many solutions to this gender bathroom issue. ie single use unisex bathroom is a good solution for this controversy.


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

General Lee Awesome said:


> being uncomfortable is something people can get over and had gotten over. MY point was, people were able to get over the uni-sex change room very quickly because of a label.
> 
> I know about the "controversy" but you didn't say which "unisex" bathroom you were talking about.
> 
> There are many solutions to this gender bathroom issue. ie single use unisex bathroom is a good solution for this controversy.


It should of been obvious, and if you knew about the controversy, then you would have already have known.

And on the the last point, I do agree with you, to some extent. I think single use washrooms would be great for places such as restaurants, but I don't know about very crowded places, such as malls.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

it's simple
if you were born with a dick and still have it-mens room
born with a vajayjay and still have it - mens room
unless your a fat hog then piss next to the other cows in the field
it's a bath room
you go in there to piss/shit/chunk up
or you can chose to do all 3 if necessary
it's not a safe haven
if no one wants to use the rest rooms then DON'T
go in your pants if all other options fail


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

vinniebob said:


> it's simple
> if you were born with a dick and still have it-mens room
> born with a vajayjay and still have it - mens room
> unless your a fat hog then piss next to the other cows in the field
> ...


If only my words could come off as wide as that of your own.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

Cal said:


> If only my words could come off as wide as that of your own.


you must become one with your inner douche bag as I have done young wise ass:laughing:


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

vinniebob said:


> you must become one with your inner douche bag as I have done young wise ass:laughing:


And how do I do that master?


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

Cal said:


> And how do I do that master?


be yourself:laughing:
if you think it
say it


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## Cal (Sep 29, 2017)

vinniebob said:


> be yourself:laughing:
> if you think it
> say it


Okay, I'll try.

Vagina's are what dogs have!

Did I do it?


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

vinniebob said:


> turns out I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body:shocked:


Gasp! I had that notion. Now that yer outted, it's been verified.:mellow: Choose your washroom carefully.


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## martinkunev (Mar 23, 2017)

Yay

I have been wondering why they are separated in the first place and what I read is that it's more or less a remnant from the time people were very serious about belonging to a given group - financial status, racial origins, etc. There was separation of black and white, men and women, etc.

There is no logical reason not to have gender neutral washrooms. If someone argues that don't want to use the same washroom as someone else, the only solution would be one washroom for every person. Any argument requiring separate washrooms would mandate separate other things (e.g. bus seats, streets).


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

It's a fucking bathroom, why does it have to conform to your gender identity? Especially when some of you identify as neither male or female? It's for practical purposes, this is ridiculous.


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## merkuria (Jan 8, 2018)

I think there *must *be neutral washrooms (besides women's and men's)

*Trans people* should go to washrooms where their gender (i said gender, not sex) identifies as such. But oh, surprise surprise, we live in this capitilist society full of ignorant people. So what ignorant people would say: "Oh you are a man get the fuck out of this woman's washroom!" Obviously this trans woman would feel like shit, so that's why neutral washrooms exist for (besides for gender neutral people). Trans people should feel safe, not scared.


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## faithhealing (Dec 20, 2017)

Aluminum Frost said:


> It's a fucking bathroom, why does it have to conform to your gender identity? Especially when some of you identify as neither male or female? It's for practical purposes, this is ridiculous.


Don't be fucking dense, please. It's about safety not gender confirmation. Whatever your personal views are, I'm a trans woman and I'm publicly seen as a woman. Imagine a woman walking into the men's washroom. Wouldn't that be impractical? Both the woman and the men in the washroom would be made to feel uncomfortable. And, we cannot opt out of using public washrooms. That's also impractical because trans people also have to work, we should be allowed to exist in public spaces without our safety being in jeopardy. Besides, predators don't check your fucking birth certificate, me being in a men's washroom puts me at a safety risk. You could argue that it's my own fault based on what I'm wearing or how I choose to present myself, but if you're that far gone then no amount of discourse will reach you.

You know what happens when I use the women's washroom in public? It's something I rarely do and try to actively avoid because who the hell doesn't? Public washrooms are usually disgusting. But, when there's no single stall, I'll use the women's washroom. You'd be surprised! But, nobody freaks out. Nobody gets hurt. And, the only person that seems to be made uncomfortable is me because of the fear that I'll be outed and some transphobic person will give me bullshit despite me trying to just go about my day.

When it comes to nonbinary people, like, there are gender neutral washrooms, they already exist. In my experience, nonbinary people are usually closeted in public. They don't expect people to "cater" to their pronouns. They know that society is limited when it comes to an understanding of gender nonconforming individuals. They usually will use the washroom that causes them the least concerns about their safety, which ever one seem more practical for them. Again, gender neutral washrooms, you know, single stall washrooms, are pretty easy to come by. There's even apps that help trans people find appropriate washrooms for their safety. 

I think a lot of people are trying to make this issue about themselves, and framing it as a 'practical' issues is tired. There was a woman (cis woman) who was attacking other women (again, cis women) with an firearm at a Target because she thought she could read these women as transgender. Turns out, trans women are not typically so different from cis women. But, a lot of you guys are not ready to acknowledge that beside it challenges what you thought you understood about gender and gender norms. 


Transgender people, we're not a monolith. Anti-trans propaganda, whether it's perpetrated by the government, religious groups, far right fucking vigilantes, is not based on facts and actual happenings. Trans people deserve basic rights, and we've been portrayed as predators (by hate groups, by the media) for so long that people are unable to get their head out of their own ass and see that trans people exist and are not going anywhere. Trans people are not so different from you or your family members, or whoever. If you, or somebody else, wants to create a moral panic about groups that seem 'different' or 'scary' then it's no wonder people are so quick to twist fake news into their 'truth'. And, antagonize real, living people with family, friends, partners, hobbies, jobs, beliefs, whatever.


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## FeralDreamer (Jan 3, 2018)

I think there should be a bathroom for females and a bathroom for males. A one room bathroom for unisex. I don't like the idea of intersex bathrooms with multiple stalls. I don't like the idea of a woman or children being taken advantage of by creep posing as intersex. It would mean young girls wouldn't be able to do their business in an safe environment. Plenty of evil women take advantage of other women and plenty of men take advantage of other men in bathrooms not to mention children as well with bullying. I think this way though because I don't know of any other alternatives or reasons there should be a unisex bathroom so I'm open to learning more about it and I want to be convinced that we can live in a world where people can use whatever bathroom they want without getting hurt or terrified. :frustrating::frustrating:


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

faithhealing said:


> Don't be fucking dense, please. It's about safety not gender confirmation. Whatever your personal views are, I'm a trans woman and I'm publicly seen as a woman. Imagine a woman walking into the men's washroom. Wouldn't that be impractical? Both the woman and the men in the washroom would be made to feel uncomfortable. And, we cannot opt out of using public washrooms. That's also impractical because trans people also have to work, we should be allowed to exist in public spaces without our safety being in jeopardy. Besides, predators don't check your fucking birth certificate, me being in a men's washroom puts me at a safety risk. You could argue that it's my own fault based on what I'm wearing or how I choose to present myself, but if you're that far gone then no amount of discourse will reach you.
> 
> You know what happens when I use the women's washroom in public? It's something I rarely do and try to actively avoid because who the hell doesn't? Public washrooms are usually disgusting. But, when there's no single stall, I'll use the women's washroom. You'd be surprised! But, nobody freaks out. Nobody gets hurt. And, the only person that seems to be made uncomfortable is me because of the fear that I'll be outed and some transphobic person will give me bullshit despite me trying to just go about my day.
> 
> ...


What are you on about? I think you should be allowed to use whatever bathroom you want, I really don't give a shit. But people make such a big deal over it. How many trans people actually get assaulted in bathrooms? You're bringing up isolated anecdotal experiences. As for how people view transmen and transwomen that really isn't relevant.


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## Zosio (Mar 17, 2015)

No, and it really does boil down to safety. 

It baffles me that the media is simultaneously talking so much about the issue of sexual assault _and_ pushing the idea of gender neutral bathrooms. Something doesn't add up, there.


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## faithhealing (Dec 20, 2017)

Aluminum Frost said:


> What are you on about? I think you should be allowed to use whatever bathroom you want, I really don't give a shit. But people make such a big deal over it. How many trans people actually get assaulted in bathrooms? You're bringing up isolated anecdotal experiences. As for how people view transmen and transwomen that really isn't relevant.


How is that not relevant? That's kind of the whole point, is how people see us. I'm saying that my experience is similar to what I've heard from other trans women too. And, what else are you cis people suppose go on besides the experiences of trans people? You guys trying to play the wall... why do people make sure a big deal over it? It's not us. It's cis people, it's the government. 

It bothers me immensely that people even try to engage in the conversation when they still use seriously outdated terms like "transmen" and "transwomen" lmao


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## faithhealing (Dec 20, 2017)

Zosio913 said:


> No, and it really does boil down to safety.
> 
> It baffles me that the media is simultaneously talking so much about the issue of sexual assault _and_ pushing the idea of gender neutral bathrooms. Something doesn't add up, there.


Whose dangerous? Whose making who unsafe?


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## faithhealing (Dec 20, 2017)

FeralDreamer said:


> I think there should be a bathroom for females and a bathroom for males. A one room bathroom for unisex. I don't like the idea of intersex bathrooms with multiple stalls. I don't like the idea of a woman or children being taken advantage of by creep posing as intersex. It would mean young girls wouldn't be able to do their business in an safe environment. Plenty of evil women take advantage of other women and plenty of men take advantage of other men in bathrooms not to mention children as well with bullying. I think this way though because I don't know of any other alternatives or reasons there should be a unisex bathroom so I'm open to learning more about it and I want to be convinced that we can live in a world where people can use whatever bathroom they want without getting hurt or terrified. :frustrating::frustrating:


You're confusing intersex with being transgender. Like, maybe don't speak on serious social issues that effect real life people when you don't even have a basic understanding of the situation.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

faithhealing said:


> How is that not relevant? That's kind of the whole point, is how people see us. I'm saying that my experience is similar to what I've heard from other trans women too. And, what else are you cis people suppose go on besides the experiences of trans people? You guys trying to play the wall... why do people make sure a big deal over it? It's not us. It's cis people, it's the government.
> 
> It bothers me immensely that people even try to engage in the conversation when they still use seriously outdated terms like "transmen" and "transwomen" lmao


No it's not, people can have whatever opinion they want, that doesn't mean you're gonna get assaulted. It's rare that something like that happens, there's never any news reports of such things happening. Most people don't give a shit what bathroom you use. You're the ones that conceived the idea of more than 2 bathrooms.

What am I supposed to call you? You even call yourself that. I don't know what you want from me.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

No. I'm not takin9 a bi9 dump walkin9 out and seein9 the 9irl I'm attracted to... an actual 9irl.

If we're talkin9 about seperate bathrooms for people who don't know their sex I don't 9ive a shit as lon9 as I've nothin9 to do with it.


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## Soul Kitchen (May 15, 2016)

It's not as though unisex toilets were a new phenomenon anyway, so sure. Yay.


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## FeralDreamer (Jan 3, 2018)

faithhealing said:


> You're confusing intersex with being transgender. Like, maybe don't speak on serious social issues that effect real life people when you don't even have a basic understanding of the situation.


I truly apologize. I guess I don't. I knew what the question just not any terms associated with.


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## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

Sure, make a neutral bathroom. And fill it with medieval toilet troughs and goats (and grass on the floor so the goats can eat). You'd just poop on the grass, fertilizing the soil with Xe and Xur's excrement. And there would be no sinks, you'd let the goats lick your hands til they were clean.


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## faithhealing (Dec 20, 2017)

Aluminum Frost said:


> No it's not, people can have whatever opinion they want, that doesn't mean you're gonna get assaulted. It's rare that something like that happens, there's never any news reports of such things happening. Most people don't give a shit what bathroom you use. You're the ones that conceived the idea of more than 2 bathrooms.
> 
> What am I supposed to call you? You even call yourself that. I don't know what you want from me.


I'm convinced you guys don't even realize what the 'debate' is about. We're not asking for a third washroom. Trans women want to be able to use the women's washroom without any difficulties. And, you saying that nobody will assault me (or more accurately a trans women how is in a more dangerous area) because I'm a trans woman in a woman's washroom, it again, shows your lack of understanding when it comes to the what trans people experience. In 2015, the murder rate for trans women was higher than any year previously, last year was not much different. Trans women (especially if they're black and poor) are a very high risk for sexual assault and violence. And, we basically want cis people to stop talking about issues they don't understand and let us go about our peace. People 'disagreeing' with the 'trans lifestyle' or whatever, it does have real world consequences for some of us, believe it or not.

It's 'trans woman' and 'trans men', not "transwomen" and "transmen". We're not a separate category it terms of gender. Trans women are women, trans men are men, so it's generally considered outdated to compound the descriptive words.


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## faithhealing (Dec 20, 2017)

Rain please said:


> No. I'm not takin9 a bi9 dump walkin9 out and seein9 the 9irl I'm attracted to... an actual 9irl.
> 
> If we're talkin9 about seperate bathrooms for people who don't know their sex I don't 9ive a shit as lon9 as I've nothin9 to do with it.


Wait, are you saying you're into trans men? That's cool. Just don't fucking get your rocks off in the washroom about it then, freak.


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## shazam (Oct 18, 2015)

faithhealing said:


> Wait, are you saying you're into trans men? That's cool. Just don't fucking get your rocks off in the washroom about it then, freak.


Shutup you loon.


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## Taileile (Jul 2, 2016)

Imo it should be left up to the state level or to companies to decide, but I'm going to avoid companies that allow people of both sexes to use the same restroom unless it's a one-person only restroom. If other people are okay with it, more power to them, but I'm not comfortable with it.

I know this is referring to bathrooms specifically, but I'm also expressly against gender neutral locker rooms. Idc what someone thinks they are or aren't, it's entirely inappropriate.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

faithhealing said:


> I'm convinced you guys don't even realize what the 'debate' is about. We're not asking for a third washroom. Trans women want to be able to use the women's washroom without any difficulties. And, you saying that nobody will assault me (or more accurately a trans women how is in a more dangerous area) because I'm a trans woman in a woman's washroom, it again, shows your lack of understanding when it comes to the what trans people experience. In 2015, the murder rate for trans women was higher than any year previously, last year was not much different. Trans women (especially if they're black and poor) are a very high risk for sexual assault and violence. And, we basically want cis people to stop talking about issues they don't understand and let us go about our peace. People 'disagreeing' with the 'trans lifestyle' or whatever, it does have real world consequences for some of us, believe it or not.
> 
> It's 'trans woman' and 'trans men', not "transwomen" and "transmen". We're not a separate category it terms of gender. Trans women are women, trans men are men, so it's generally considered outdated to compound the descriptive words.


That's what the fucking thread was about though >.> Lack of understanding? Chances are you wont get assaulted, that's just a fact. I'm not trans so I don't get to speak? Fuck off with that shit. Disagreeing with you isn't a problem, everyone who disagrees with you wont attack you. The vast majority of people wont. Acting like every trans person going into a bathroom is coming out with a black eye and busted ribs -_- '

I'm not the best at english, I don't care anyways, you're being nitpicky. I don't want to be rude but the second part is your opinion, and it's not backed by science.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

Aluminum Frost said:


> That's what the fucking thread was about though >.> Lack of understanding? Chances are you wont get assaulted, that's just a fact. I'm not trans so I don't get to speak? Fuck off with that shit. Disagreeing with you isn't a problem, everyone who disagrees with you wont attack you. The vast majority of people wont. Acting like every trans person going into a bathroom is coming out with a black eye and busted ribs -_- '
> 
> I'm not the best at english, I don't care anyways, you're being nitpicky. I don't want to be rude but the second part is your opinion, and it's not backed by science.


It’s worth pointing out thier lack of understanding, or even caring, where the women who disagree with this are coming from.

Also, I have never heard of any transwoman being attacked in the bathroom in the oast decade but I have been shoved to the ground by a boy in a dress desperate to get to the bathroom before me.

Transwomen have a life time f muscle-building testisterone to back them up. Unless they are in a bathroom full of women with years of self-defense training, or the transperson themselve is especially feeble, I don’t see them being beaten up in a women’s restroom.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

Kataro214 said:


> There will be more rapes happening, it's hard to say in what degree though. And girls would have to deal with messy washrooms because men is generally too careless. Will be lots of pee on the floor and toilet seat-
> And think about those creepy older men, sitting next to small girls. neutral washrooms just bad thoughts all over if you ask me.
> Looking at more common things; what girl wants to go on the toilet after a man released the worst fart ever-
> And then their eyes will meet after he goes out of the toilet. They smile slightly and want to look attractive to each other because it's the opposite sex. It will feel embarrassing to them both especially if they know each other. And ofc it's higher chance that this man will imagine the female naked because she is going to pull down her panties in like 5 seconds


This is so true. Rapists will now do their raping inside the washroom instead of waiting outside the doorway labeled women, ladies, females, etc.

I have an idea. Why not separate washrooms where people do their washing up from excretoriums where people release their excretions? They could first separate and then happily reunite in the washrooms. That would present a more positive side to the whole situation.


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## EllieBird (Sep 3, 2017)

Every time I see this post, my mind tries to read it as "Gender neutral mushrooms, Yay or Nay?"


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## attic (May 20, 2012)

Kataro214 said:


> There will be more rapes happening, it's hard to say in what degree though. And girls would have to deal with messy washrooms because men is generally too careless. Will be lots of pee on the floor and toilet seat-
> And think about those creepy older men, sitting next to small girls. neutral washrooms just bad thoughts all over if you ask me.
> Looking at more common things; what girl wants to go on the toilet after a man released the worst fart ever-
> And then their eyes will meet after he goes out of the toilet. They smile slightly and want to look attractive to each other because it's the opposite sex. It will feel embarrassing to them both especially if they know each other. And ofc it's higher chance that this man will imagine the female naked because she is going to pull down her panties in like 5 seconds


As someone who lives where genderneutral washrooms are more common than not nowadays, I'd say this is not the case. Of course some adjustments need to be done, like shield of the urinoar if there is one, so those who don't want to see don't have too (which I think is positive for all, little boys might be as uncomfortable with watching unknown old mens attire as little girls are for example), and stalls ought to have water for washing (which can be wanted when menstruating, but also ought to benefit all as some other conditions are inconvenient if one need to go in and out of the stall to wash hands between handling ones business). But I have not felt more uncomfortable in the genderneutral ones than in the only women's ones. The girl might also be the one farting big time, and be embarrassed when the next person of whichever gender have to go in there. People often want to seem attractive to people of their own gender as well, either because they are not hetero, or simply because they want to seem attractive, estethics, status.... I think women often care more what other women think than what other random men think honestly. 

About the mess, I guess that could cause a problem, but I haven't really noticed that, perhaps the men shape up when they know people are going to have to sit on the seat?


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## versace (Jul 27, 2016)

Yes.... There are plenty of "family bathrooms" or "unisex bathrooms" in majority of public buildings anyway, so there wouldn't be much of a financial concern or anything of the sort. People should just be able to take a piss. I don't see why people care so much about what bathroom people are going into.


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## Elspeth (Jan 24, 2013)

Kataro214 said:


> There will be more rapes happening, it's hard to say in what degree though. And girls would have to deal with messy washrooms because men is generally too careless.


Why assume that there will be more rapes if there are bathrooms available to all? See, I don't get that. EVEN if the women had to squat on urinals. (shudder). 
I don't believe that men would simply jump on the women because their bottoms are exposed. Do they do that? And that seems to be the overriding assumption about these toilets. Or that the males are in there with their dicks out (to pee) and therefore the women's bottoms look more inviting?
Unless you really have a wierd pee fetish, I cannot see that. And I stand by what I said - individual single-stall toilet rooms,give more privacy and reassurance to all of us.
Also, we need to get away from the assumption that rape is a "Oh poor little man couldn't help himself". RAPE is a form of BULLYING. It's about POWER! And who feels powerful when they are having a pee?


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

versace said:


> Yes.... There are plenty of "family bathrooms"...


Hadn't thought of it till now. Aren't just about all family bathrooms independent of who uses them? The only difference is the door gets shut. Never mind what happens inside. I imagine after a while new public bathrooms no one would notice ... much. We all have to go. We all leave a sensory residual behind. Just do it. Make public bathrooms unisex and after a while just about all would get used to it. Those who don't get used to it would be "poo-pood."

As for which sex is sloppier, is that the sex or the person? What makes the difference is how often public bathrooms are cleaned. Clean 'em up regularly and cleanliness becomes the standard. Leave 'em repugnant and that's the standard.


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## Kataro214 (Jan 10, 2018)

Elspeth said:


> Why assume that there will be more rapes if there are bathrooms available to all? See, I don't get that. EVEN if the women had to squat on urinals. (shudder).
> I don't believe that men would simply jump on the women because their bottoms are exposed. Do they do that? And that seems to be the overriding assumption about these toilets. Or that the males are in there with their dicks out (to pee) and therefore the women's bottoms look more inviting?
> Unless you really have a wierd pee fetish, I cannot see that. And I stand by what I said - individual single-stall toilet rooms,give more privacy and reassurance to all of us.
> Also, we need to get away from the assumption that rape is a "Oh poor little man couldn't help himself". RAPE is a form of BULLYING. It's about POWER! And who feels powerful when they are having a pee?


I think you are naive when it comes to this, and you probably didn't get me. I'm not saying that men would rape girls all time if it was gender neutral washrooms, I'm trying to say that the small % rapes that happens, would be slightly higher. Not because normal men would suddenly rape girls in neutral washrooms, but because the men who are already sick in their head would have an easier way to so, and additionally more often the lust to act on it. And why do I assume it? well, even with no data, I could also assume that girls would get more often raped if they suddenly didn't wear clothes at all. 

The men works different when it comes to sex, then women. You'd be surprised if you asked the average man how many girls he would fuck if allowed. We group girls in a huge box called "Good enough to have sex with", and another tiny little box where there is girls we are actually interested in (not only sexual). A random girl standing next to a guy, with her bottom exposed, wouldn't make him jump at her (if we look away from the guys who are sick in their head). However, this man would struggle not to get boner in a situation like that (do you even know how hard it is to pee with a boner lol). And there is a high chance that the average man would want to fuck her (even imagine himself fucking that specific butt). If you think that looking at a girl pee, is turn off, you're mostly wrong. Most men would simply not care, and very many would also find it arousing. Pee fetish is very common for men even though it's taboo, it's just about none that admits it for fairly understandable reasons. Just think of female squirting, something that mostly all men find arousing. Pee fetish is similar in many ways but less accepted.

Anyway, my point is that you see this stuff from a female view. And you assume men thinks similar, which is not the case. You didn't consider that rapists also would use these washrooms like any other guy. Or that many men would get horny in a washroom like that. 
Think about the rapists that are sick in their head, but was too afraid to act on it (jail etc). Washrooms like this could give them lust and actually make them do it. and btw:

"RAPE is a form of BULLYING. It's about POWER! And who feels powerful when they are having a pee?"
in general, It's probably the man. 

Looking away from jail, society and so on; The only thing that holds men back from raping girls are empathy, sympathy and common human values. Healthy, normal, common men have high respect for females and does not let lust take control over these values. However, there is men out there that lacks these things (like empathy). Don't act like they don't exist and won't use a public washroom, that's naive.

( I like your way of thinking but you need to be more mathematical and realistic about it imo, don't trust everyone. Accept the fact that there is bad people out there) 

@attic 
You're probably right about the girl and fart thing, but remember that neutral washrooms wouldn't reduce the number of girls, it would just be twice as many people. 

Also, I'm not saying that gender neutral washrooms are that bad. Most people wouldn't really mind it, and in everyday life, not me either. But I just cant see it benefit at least Norway (where I live). Cause it would cost alot to change them all. However, if neutral washrooms are less expensive to make, it could be okay I guess. However, the down side is more rapes, and other stuff. I'm not saying that more rapes is okay, but again, society wouldn't use all their money just to prevent a few rapes. Which sadly, is also understandable. 

Putting Money aside; I think the Transgenders would benefit the most of neutral washrooms (and that's good), cause to others it shouldn't really matter that much. 
But my personal opinion is that this wouldn't outweigh the benefits which the perverts and rapists gets.


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## attic (May 20, 2012)

@Kataro214 I don't agree there would be more rape, it is possible, but I don't think the assumption seems a clear case to make. Being realistic isn't always believing the negative. A restroom for ladies could for example attract those who are thinking about doing something bad, and if putting the toilets together, there will be more of them in one place and more likely there is a third party there to stop a potential rape, perhaps also deterring people because of the threat of someone stronger than them walking in. It would be interesting to see if there is some statistics about this, perhaps if I have more time tomorrow I will try to dig something up. 

What I like about genderneutral ones (except that the few transpeople not having trouble), is that it is more practical, you don't get free toilets in the men's washroom and a que in the women's washroom, it places less weight on gender as a division in society, and you don't have to worry you accidentally walk into the wrong one.


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## Kataro214 (Jan 10, 2018)

@attic

If the whole world used neutral washrooms, there would be more rape happening. But that's my opinion and I don't have statistics, 
so it's fair enough if you think something else. 
You have positive points that can prevent rape (and I agree), but again I don't think it will make up for the negatives. 
Especially the smaller or less used washrooms are in bad positions. And when the night comes, there will be less traffic on the washrooms as well. Include alcohol to it and it won't get better. 

I didn't notice that girls stay in queue inside the washrooms (because I'm male), but if that's the case. I think it would be a better solution to have more toilets on the female side than the male side.
Also, walking into wrong room by accident is really not a big deal. It will just be funny or embarrassing. In fact, most males would probably not mind if a girl used the male side, just say it's queue on the female side.


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## Santa Gloss (Feb 23, 2015)

Yes, but only if the stalls are high quality and there's robust privacy. A decade ago, when I was a teen, I used some unisex restrooms in the UK. They had excellent privacy. No one cared about gender/sex. No one bothered others. It was my first time using something like that. I hesitated for a bit. My uncle, whom I was visiting, said, "if you want to feel safer, you can take X (my 3 year old niece) with you. She has to poop. You can handle that right?" Lol. I ran into a stall and did my business alone. 

I don't feel like the current women's restrooms in the US are remotely private. Every single time, I feel like I have to take measures to ensure that no sees what they shouldn't. There was this time a little girl decided to peek through the crack between the door and the edge. I was so damn irritated. Other times, I can make eye contact with someone who's washing their hands. That shouldn't happen. 



nO_d3N1AL said:


> I never got why we have separate toilets anyway.


Absence, even it is 3 minutes long, makes the heart grow fonder. It's for the benefit of couples.


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## The Dude (May 20, 2010)

If it hasn't been done yet, I'm adding a third option...meh.


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## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

I thought I'd mention more stats on the issue.

https://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/

As far as I can see, public washrooms/toilets don't feature in the top 7 locations.


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## Notus Asphodelus (Jan 20, 2015)

The problem why we have't made a third washroom is because 1: Lack of available space. 2: water wastage. If not we would have already made a third washroom by now and get this over with.


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## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

Notus Asphodelus said:


> The problem why we have't made a third washroom is because 1: Lack of available space. 2: water wastage. If not we would have already made a third washroom by now and get this over with.


They've already got that in certain locations, with baby change rooms and disability toilets/washrooms.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

aus2020 said:


> I thought I'd mention more stats on the issue.
> 
> https://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/
> 
> As far as I can see, public washrooms/toilets don't feature in the top 7 locations.


And why would they? They are often crowded and perpetrators tend not to want to be caught.


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## Notus Asphodelus (Jan 20, 2015)

aus2020 said:


> They've already got that in certain locations, with baby change rooms and disability toilets/washrooms.


Especially with new malls, but the older ones are a bit tricky. Either they have to make a small compartment or they build an extension for the building to facilitate a third washroom. It' not a problem actually. It's just the case whether people want to fund for this.


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## aus2020 (Jun 29, 2011)

Whenever the subject of rape/sexual assault comes up, the topic of what women should or shouldn't be allowed to do, always comes up. The type of clothing a woman wears or the locations she can go to. The burden of responsibility for personal safety always happens to fall upon the woman/girl. However, one person's interpretation of concern and compassion, can be interpreted as curtailment and control by another. Nobody ever mentions other considerations, such as the possibility of installing security cameras in high risk areas or the monitoring of convicted sex offenders.

If western women think that the culture of victim blaming is such a good idea, why aren't they wearing burkas? Why aren't women asking for Saudi rules restricting what they can or cannot do, without the permission of a male guardian?


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## Fox hidden in the woods (Dec 10, 2017)

aus2020 said:


> Whenever the subject of rape/sexual assault comes up, the topic of what women should or shouldn't be allowed to do, always comes up. The type of clothing a woman wears or the locations she can go to. The burden of responsibility for personal safety always happens to fall upon the woman/girl. However, one person's interpretation of concern and compassion, can be interpreted as curtailment and control by another. Nobody ever mentions other considerations, such as the possibility of installing security cameras in high risk areas or the monitoring of convicted sex offenders.
> 
> If western women think that the culture of victim blaming is such a good idea, why aren't they wearing burkas? Why aren't women asking for Saudi rules restricting what they can or cannot do, without the permission of a male guardian?


Good point.


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## compulsiverambler (Jan 7, 2010)

If the worry is about sexual assault by stronger people against weaker people, then why isn't the division instead between "healthy, non-disabled, non-elderly, adult men", and "everyone else"? Regardless of sex, elderly people, disabled people, those temporarily defenseless due to pain, severe underweight, dizziness or vomiting, and boys of any age who haven't fully physically matured, are all just as vulnerable to sexual assault as any woman or girl is.


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## BigApplePi (Dec 1, 2011)

*Gender neutral washrooms, Yay or Nay?*


The important thing is to mind your own business and clean up afterward.:bored:


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