# Things you're surprised to notice about each type



## Figure

A lot of us track enneatype in our daily interactions and introspections, and I think our forum needs a common place to share what we notice.

These don't have to be confirmed, and you don't have to post something for every type - just post what you notice, find interesting that you hadn't realized before, think is overlooked that needs to be brought forward, etc. All the better is someone decides it's not accurate, as it could lead to a more engaged discussion of the intricacies and misconceptions of each type. Here are a few simple ones offhand I have:



*1's: *that they are actually operating off of idealism, given how firm they are in asserting what they stand behind

*2's: *that despite their warmth they are actually very intense inside, and at times, angry

*3's: *that despite their confidence they actually very much need other people's approval (not as independent as they appear)

*4's: *how much tougher they are emotionally than they appear. And, that 7 can help them integrate to 1.

*5's: *that they can actually have separate internal monologues

*6's:* that there isn't a more obvious correlation with 6's and MBTI types 
*
7's: *that they can be emotionally impervious and potentially ruthless, and need to improve that part of their being

*8's: *that they are emotionally sensitive
*
9's:* that their anger supression can actually surface physically (I noticed with a 9w8 I know that he will laugh in a weird artificial way with everyone else, then go back to this reserved, dazed look)


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## Animal

*What a great thread topic!!!*

Some of these are exactly what I would write, word for word:



Figure said:


> *2's: *that despite their warmth they are actually very intense inside, and at times, angry
> 
> *3's: *that despite their confidence they actually very much need other people's approval (not as independent as they appear)
> 
> *4's: *how much tougher they are emotionally than they appear.
> *
> 7's: *that they can be emotionally impervious and potentially ruthless, and need to improve that part of their being
> 
> *8's: *that they are emotionally sensitive
> *
> 9's:* that their anger supression can actually surface physically (I noticed with a 9w8 I know that he will laugh in a weird artificial way with everyone else, then go back to this reserved, dazed look)


I cannot possibly phrase those better.

*1's*: That as logical as they appear, they have a very emotional underbelly and they want love. Think line to 4. They often hate this about themselves, and yet if you know a 1 well, you might see them cry out of self-pity and then scold themselves for it.

*5's*: That they have powerlust. They may not *act* on it, as they fear their integration point 8, which incites action. But why do they fear it? In their minds they're a dangerous superpower who can destroy the whole world with the push of one button.. the whole web would collapse! Muahahaahahaa! (line to 7, narcissism. line to 8, lust. 5 core: MIND POWER baby.)

*6's*: People say all this stuff about 6's following authorities or needing guidance - and yes, I will agree 6's look for guidance - but they are NOT blind followers. That could not be further from the truth. Even if you phrase it in the worst way as Naranjo does, the "paranoid character," paranoia means you question everything. 6's have very independent minds. Yes, they look for guidance, security, and something to believe in, but they are _not _followers. They want to be secure in the things they personally believe and they will question anything that may seem to get them closer to it.


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## Swordsman of Mana

> 1's: that they are actually operating off of idealism, given how firm they are in asserting what they stand behind


guess this would surprise an 8 fixer. for 1 fixers, our ideals are a source of tremendous power (especially with strong Fi/Te thrown in the mix)



> 2's: that despite their warmth they are actually very intense inside, and at times, angry


I've noticed this as well



> 3's: that despite their confidence they actually very much need other people's approval (not as independent as they appear)


true, but people often overestimate the amount of social approval 3s need. 



> 4's: how much tougher they are emotionally than they appear. And, that 7 can help them integrate to 1.


haven't noticed this, but you might have a point. given the tumultuous emotions 4s deal with on a regular basis, it would stand to reason they'd be better equipped to handle actual depression if/when it hits.



> 5's: that they can actually have separate internal monologues


huh?



> 6's: that there isn't a more obvious correlation with 6's and MBTI types


LOL true. most people try to make 6 out to be the SJ of the Enneagram 



> 7's: that they can be emotionally impervious and potentially ruthless, and need to improve that part of their being


VERY true. I guess this would come as a surprise to most, but when you consider what type 7 is actually about (avoiding pain, maximizing pleasure, entitlement and grandiosity) you looking a type who naturally tends to prioritize themselves above others and will feel no remorse being ruthless when necessary. 
as for the last part, I think the goal is to redirect their desirous energy towards productive pursuits.



> 8's: that they are emotionally sensitive


I don't agree with this one, at least not until they start to integrate to 2. 8s are the most "don't give a shit" type on the enneagram. in fact, too much so. most types would benefit from not caring so much about trivial things, but the opposite is true of 8s. 



> 9's: that their anger supression can actually surface physically (I noticed with a 9w8 I know that he will laugh in a weird artificial way with everyone else, then go back to this reserved, dazed look)


true


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## Animal

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I don't agree with this one, at least not until they start to integrate to 2. 8s are the most "don't give a shit" type on the enneagram. in fact, too much so. most types would benefit from not caring so much about trivial things, but the opposite is true of 8s.


Edit:
Let's put it this way: if there wasn't a vulnerable underbelly, there would be no need for so much armor. Vengeance is about correcting the past... at one point in the past you made yourself vulnerable, and then you got hurt/ betrayed/ taken advantage of; vengeance is: "Damned if I'd let that happen again. I will not succumb to weakness again. I will be strong; indestructible. I will not be deterred by ploys for compassion. No one is innocent. You can't get under my skin. I am in control."

That being said, I agree that 8s don't sweat the trivial things. 8s would be vulnerable where it counts though. It's impossible to get under my skin unless I let you, but once you're in, you're in... and at that point betrayal can hurt and will lead to more hardening and vengeance.


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## Figure

Swordsman of Mana said:


> haven't noticed this, but you might have a point. given the tumultuous emotions 4s deal with on a regular basis, it would stand to reason they'd be better equipped to handle actual depression if/when it hits.


Right. What 4's deal with, regardless of whether it is self-inflicted/necessary or not, actually makes them appreciate the human side of suffering all the more, whereas other types may not look at it. 



> VERY true. I guess this would come as a surprise to most, but when you consider what type 7 is actually about (avoiding pain, maximizing pleasure, entitlement and grandiosity) you looking a type who naturally tends to prioritize themselves above others and will feel no remorse being ruthless when necessary.


That avoidance trains us to be very good at stepping aside from what would be an unpleasant reaction/self-consciousness/etc and keep going. IDK for a 7w6, but at least for a 7w8, there's also a mechanism that says "block it out," that you should fulfill your own needs on your own. 

It's a really ugly, even dark part of the 7. I don't think some 7's realize how urgent it is that they get in touch with their souls. 



> I don't agree with this one, at least not until they start to integrate to 2. 8s are the most "don't give a shit" type on the enneagram. in fact, too much so. most types would benefit from not caring so much about trivial things, but the opposite is true of 8s.


Well, I don't know about that. If you press them enough, at least 8w9 *will *set a boundary. Anger *is *an emotion. If something didn't incite an emotion in you, you would have no reason to react. They aren't all aloof.


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## Swordsman of Mana

@Figure


> That avoidance trains us to be very good at stepping aside from what would be an unpleasant reaction/self-consciousness/etc and keep going. IDK for a 7w6, but at least for a 7w8, there's also a mechanism that says "block it out," that you should fulfill your own needs on your own.
> It's a really ugly, even dark part of the 7. I don't think some 7's realize how urgent it is that they get in touch with their souls.


as a 7w6, I can be pretty dark and ruthless too, but I feel my dark/ruthless tendencies are less excessive than 7w8. 7w8s have a stronger connection to 8's sadism which causes them to enjoy inflicting unnecessary pain; 7w6s are like raccoons. we mostly just run around without a care in the world, but we can go ape shit when we feel trapped or in danger.


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## a go go

I've seen emo type 7s. A lot actually.


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## Coburn

Nines are a lot more opinionated than they appear. Although the opinion usually comes out after the fact.

They're also incredibly stubborn and can be very difficult to budge. Especially if it's over something they just don't feel like doing.


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## Fern

3's are tricky to identify. And though they have that "mask" we all talk about, they're intriguing and difficult to read or figure out. I like that about them.
And when other achieve personal goals, they can be extremely supportive and genuinely happy for you. They don't always respond to such successes with jealousy; they can be quite generous.

4's can be SUPER great at math and physics. 5's don't hold a monopoly on the sciences, just as 4's do not hold one on the Arts as a whole--some incredible 7 artists have I met!! (Am I Yoda now?... Meh, let it stand :happy The joy they bring to their work coupled with countless ideas is wonderful to work with! And they can be profoundly deep as well.

5's are tough little motherfuckers. I wouldn't want to cross one! They're not nearly as shy and subdued as some would have you believe. And when they defend their views or explain a concept, their confidence can't be topped. They just have a different "brand" of confidence 


6's surprise me to no end. They have so many layers.
I was recently blessed enough to witness a lovely, lovely 6 and their relation to a variety of authority figures.
And he was a *leader, man*! And ridiculously intelligent. And so empathetic.
6's also can truly rival 2's when it comes to the "niceness" factor 

1's can actually be very shallow in their perfectionism, sacrificing depth for a certain moral stability.

4's also give some of the best, most genuine compliments I have ever received. I feel like they must premeditate these kind words for months!

This isn't all that surprising Enneagram-wise, but I am always shocked when I find out how strong 8's really are. It's not that I didn't think an *8* could be that strong (we all know they are resilient little hunks of metal); I just didn't know being that strong was *humanly possible*.

2's are a ton of fun and are not necessarily easily offended.

9's are pillars of strength in the quietest way. We need them terribly. I've seen what happens when 9's leave or "abandon their post"... it's just sad the way people don't appreciate them in the moment.

I appreciat this thread


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## Swordsman of Mana

Marlowe said:


> Nines are a lot more opinionated than they appear. Although the opinion usually comes out after the fact.
> They're also incredibly stubborn and can be very difficult to budge. Especially if it's over something they just don't feel like doing.


imo, 1w9 tops the list for stubbornness, but I like that about them. gut types in general are pretty stubborn


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## The Scorched Earth

Threes, for all their productivity and "just do it"-ness, seem pretty insubstantial upon close inspection.


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## Swordsman of Mana

3s: less fake than they're accused of being. in fact, probably the least fake of all the image types because they can *actually do* what it is they say they can.


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## Tater Tot

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 3s: less fake than they're accused of being. in fact, probably the least fake of all the image types because they can *actually do* what it is they say they can.


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## Sina

*Type 1*

a)The idealism of a 1 can have practical applications. Ones can be highly pragmatic, competitive and achievement-oriented. They're competency triaders, at the end of the day. Competition is overemphasized with regards to 3s, 8s and 7s. The attentional pattern of Type 1s shifts to evaluating their performance not just against their own standards but that of others as well. You'd be surprised at how competitive Ones can be. 

b) Ones can uphold absolutely any ethical/moral framework. A 1 can be a gangster, a terrorist, a genocidaire, a ruthless entrepreneur, a promiscuous vagabond and the list goes on. As long as they're acting in accordance with their own values (to which they will adhere to their best capacity), a One's perfectionism can be channelized in any lifestyle/career choice or personality.

c) Not all Ones are stereotypically SJ-ish neat freaks or whatever. In fact, if a Type 1 feels that it is inflexible and morally unacceptable to impose order on others, they will be very insistent and stubborn about living in the most carefree/outwardly disorganized way they please. @_snail_ may attest to this. 

d) 1s can be rather aggressive, pushy and even possessive. Sx 1s and Sx 8s can look very similar, on the surface. These 1s are said to have the mentality of a conquerer, and they're often described as "animals in heat". On a related note, and I touched on it briefly above, not all 1s are sexually repressed and prudish. I knew a couple who are former porn/sex addicts. And, I know several with very high sex drives and rather devious sexual inclinations by most people's standards lol. Point being, pigeon-holing a type into the stick up the ass school headmaster category or other such oversimplified characteristics leads to a myopic understanding of type.

e) Ones like Sixes, and even 8s, tend to be watchful of authority and can even be anti-authoritarian. In fact, I find that revolutionary leaders are over-typed as 6s. The whole rule bound slaves of social convention stereotype does as much of a disservice to understanding Type 1 as it does to Type 6. 

*
Type 2:*

a) Twos are rejection-triaders. Like 8s and 5s, they are power-oriented and independence focused. Unhealthy 2s can be clingy and guilt trippy, but these are actually strategies of control. They can have a tremendous amount of unmet emotional needs and expectations that they deny up to a point, because their self-worth is affirmed through receiving love and approval for their seemingly selfless generosity. When in fact, there are strings attached; and, the two will manipulate others into getting these emotional needs met. For all their outward positivity and even effervescence, 2s can be very angry and resentful inside. Despite their seeming gentleness/warmth, Twos know exactly where they stand and what they want. They are consummate power players who are poorly understood in online forum communities. Their prideful nature is often overlooked in favour of, foolishly, portraying them as overly placating and needy mother hens. 

b) Social 2s are amongst the most ambitious and influential types on the Enneagram. It's not uncommon for social 2 (men usually) to mistype as 8s. They're often very assertive and can be aggressive. 

*
Type 3:*


a)There's a shitload of misconceptions surrounding 3s. The amount of approval they need is grossly and ridiculously overestimated. I agree with @_Swordsman of Mana_. This has always annoyed me. 3s are not seeking anyone and everyone's admiration. 3s *primarily want the admiration, respect and attention of people crucial to their rise up the success ladder*. Period. 

3s are not adversely affected by the negative opinions of random fucks. In fact, 3s like 7s are very good at reframing negative feedback positively, unless it's expressed in a severely disrespectful manner or comes from a person who holds the key to some opportunity or another that they're after. Even then, they're fully capable of excavating what's useful and discarding the rest. 


It's a joke to assume that 3s, as RH put it, live and die on the opinions of others. That's some bullshit. Most theorists of note have always emphasized the pragmatism of the type. And, no pragmatist falls apart at the mere hint of negative feedback. Sure, a 3 like a 7 and like most people would much rather receive affirmation, admiration and so on, but it is folly to think that 3s are extremely dependent on people's opinions in general. Nonsense, as I just said.


b) It is Type 7 NOT type 3 that is narcissistic at the level of fixation. The narcissism of a 3 is earned and affirmed through constant striving and effort. It is the 7 that is the true narcissist. I have written a post about this, which I will quote later. 

c)Threes have underlying anxiety about staying on top of things. This anxiety is best covered in the works of Naranjo and Maitri, and it's very important to grasp if you want to understand the type.

d) Like 8s, 1s and cp6s, 3s can tend towards an authoritarian orientation. In other words, they gravitate towards positions where they have control, and they work towards maximizing that control. 3s prefer being in positions of authority, and do not entrust others to look after their interests and progress as well as they can..themselves. 


*
Type 4*

They're emotionally quite resilient. I'll add more about how 4s and 8s are more similar in some ways than is realized. But, that'll have to wait. I am somewhat preoccupied and there's much to say. 

My sections on 6, 7 and 9 will be fun to write. I look forward to finishing up this post.


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## Father of Dragons

*Ones: *How they are as just as intensely perfectionistic with themselves as they are with others. That they can be really hedonistic at times.

*Twos: *That their passive aggression skills can put our infamous nine passive aggression to shame. That they can have more of a commanding role than the supposedly commanding eights.

*Threes: *That, for people often stereotyped as being shallow, can have tons of depth and be super attractive. roud:

*Fours: *That they are incredibly feisty and strong, brave. That they often identify with strength.
*
Fives: *That there are so damned few its a genuine surprise to encounter them, even online where people are a dime a dozen.

*Six: *That they are often far more aggressive and abrasive than eights.

*Seven: *That they often are intensely unconfident regardless of being one of the most popular and appreciated types.

*Eights: *That their soft side often makes the supposed sensitivity of other types pale in comparison. That they are so damned fine. 

*Nines: *That there is a huge diversity of us, from the wallflowers to the attention seekers.

Cool thread idea.


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## Tharwen

6s: that they consider some precautions obvious, but still have huge holes in their self defence. such as only considering certain kinds of aspects of others threatening, while being blind to others.

2w1s: they have an intense red energy to them.

3s: they dont give time to emotions, despite liking them very much.

1's: are very emotional.

5w6's: are as paranoid as me. although, they do it naturally, whereas i learned it out of necessity.

4s: surprisingly self centered.

7s: might not like to deal with their pain, even if i make it fun to do.

8s: are blind to threats. too confident, arrogantly ignore others.

9s: lack an internal world.


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## Swordsman of Mana

@Boss


> Type 1
> 
> a)The idealism of a 1 can have practical applications. Ones can be highly pragmatic, competitive and achievement-oriented. They're competency triaders, at the end of the day. Competition is overemphasized with regards to 3s, 8s and 7s. The attentional pattern of Type 1s shifts to evaluating their performance not just against their own standards but that of others as well. You'd be surprised at how competitive Ones can be.


doesn't surprise me



> b) Ones can uphold absolutely any ethical/moral framework. A 1 can be a gangster, a terrorist, a genocidaire, a ruthless entrepreneur, *a promiscuous vagabond* and the list goes on. As long as they're acting in accordance with their own values (to which they will adhere to their best capacity), a One's perfectionism can be channelized in any lifestyle/career choice or personality.


...if they have strong integration to 7 



> c) Not all Ones are stereotypically SJ-ish neat freaks or whatever. In fact, if a Type 1 feels that it is inflexible and morally unacceptable to impose order on others, they will be very insistent and stubborn about living in the most carefree/outwardly disorganized way they please. snail may attest to this.


werd. 
1w9s in particular can become the ruthless vigilante and look a lot more like xSxPs or E8



























> Type 2:
> a) Twos are rejection-triaders. Like 8s and 5s, they are power-oriented and independence focused. Unhealthy 2s can be clingy and guilt trippy, but these are actually strategies of control. They can have a tremendous amount of unmet emotional needs and expectations that they deny up to a point, because their self-worth is affirmed through receiving love and approval for their seemingly selfless generosity. When in fact, there are strings attached; and, the two will manipulate others into getting these emotional needs met. For all their outward positivity and even effervescence, 2s can be very angry and resentful inside. Despite their seeming gentleness/warmth, Twos know exactly where they stand and what they want. They are consummate power players who are poorly understood in online forum communities. Their prideful nature is often overlooked in favour of, foolishly, portraying them as overly placating and needy mother hens.


I believed this stereotype until recently. :tongue:



> b) Social 2s are amongst the most ambitious and influential types on the Enneagram. It's not uncommon for social 2 (men usually) to mistype as 8s. They're often very assertive and can be aggressive.


yup. in fact, once I read Naranjo's description of 2 and thought about it some, I realized that most of the males I (and several others) had typed as poster children 3w2s were actually 2w3s. more than other types, I think 2 descriptions need to focus on _female_ 2s vs _male_ 2s, because the behavioral manifestation is completely different. 

female 2s range from sultry seductresses to glittery celebrities to political charmers (Sarah Palin comes to mind immediately LOL).

male 2s range from warm, playful and "bro-ish" when healthier and combative with dramatic antics of bravado when unhealthy (Theon Greyjoy from Game of Thrones and Anakin Skywalker come to mind immediately. also the entirety of the movie Troy), needing to prove their manliness so they don't lose the adoration of their peers. (an obvious on another forum I frequent

in fact, I think your stereotypical (American or European) football player, knight and male celebrity are all likely 2s. 

whether healthy or unhealthy, male 2s often have a boyish short of masculinity to them. like, they want to be seen as tough/masculine, but also glamorous/aesthetically pleasing. this picture depicts it well











> Type 3
> a)There's a shitload of misconceptions surrounding 3s. The amount of approval they need is grossly and ridiculously overestimated. I agree with Swordsman of Mana. This has always annoyed me. 3s are not seeking anyone and everyone's admiration. 3s primarily want the admiration, respect and attention of people crucial to their rise up the success ladder. Period


. 
yup. seeking everyone's admiration is 2, seeking universal fame/glory/attention is also 2 (your stereotypical celebrity is a 2w3 with a fair number of 7s thrown in, not a 3w2 like everyone seems to think)
3s are looking for respect for their accomplishments. their self worth lies in their ability to get results. 

*_on a more speculative note, I have a theory that the wing operates in a similar fashion to the second instinct in one's stacking (ie, serving to help fulfill the needs/desires of the core type). in the case of 2w3 vs 3w2, 2w3s would use the their pragmatic abilities and accomplishments to bring them attention, adoration and acceptance while 3w2s would use their charm, people skills and networking abilities to get from point A to point B (reminds me of a performer vs high level executive who pulled strings and charmed superiors to get ahead. at the end of the day, the latter doesn't really care that much about whether or not those people liked him, it was a means to an end)._ 



> 3s are not adversely affected by the negative opinions of random fucks. They don't care for anyone and everyone's opinion on their personality or their goals. In fact, 3s like 7s are very good at reframing negative feedback positively, unless it's expressed in a severely disrespectful manner or comes from a person who holds the key to some opportunity or another that they're after. Even then, they're fully capable of excavating what's useful and discarding the rest.


Id types in general are likely to think "I have haters, I must be doing something right"  (take Justin Bieber for instance. he probably laughs his twinky little ass off at all the crazy shit haters say about him :laughing: )




> *It's a joke to assume that 3s, as RH put it, live and die on the opinions of others. That's some bullshit.* Most theorists of note have always emphasized the pragmatism of the type.And, no pragmatist falls apart at the mere hint of negative feedback. Sure, a 3 like a 7 and like most people would much rather receive affirmation, admiration and so on, but it is folly to think that 3s are extremely dependent on people's opinions in general. Nonsense, as I just said.


exactly. particularly the bold
if anything, this is more unhealthy 6 and, once again, 2



> b) It is Type 7 NOT type 3 that is narcissistic at the level of fixation. The narcissism of a 3 is earned and affirmed through constant striving and effort. It is the 7 that is the true narcissist. I have written a post about this, which I will quote later.


yup (speaking from experience  ) I've been mistyped as 3w4 by countless people because they assumed I was too narcissistic to be a 7 :laughing:

another thing I'd like to add is that people seem to be under the impression that 3s have fragile egos and get defensive at most criticism
.....*no*. 3s (not just 3w4) are concerned with maintaining a poised, professional image. they want to, as you said, remain in control and getting defensive would only make them look like an idiot and cause people to loose respect for them.


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## Sina

@_Swordsman of Mana_

-- No, not just if they are integrated to 7 or even 7 fixed necessarily. As long as being promiscuous is not against their personal values or they're able to rationalize it with their superego somehow, Ones can be whatever they choose. 

-- Unhealthy 3s, like unhealthy 6s, 1s, 7s...you name it, do not take criticism well. But, most threes that are even of average health (not EI health levels) will not make a big brouhaha over legit criticism, even if just for image and competency reasons. They're perfectly capable of, and actually do, focus on their strengths and the positives in a situation. So, it's unlikely to hugely unsettle them at all. And, the mature threes will take it gracefully provided it's objective and not an ad hominem laced spiel, which most assertive individuals of any type wouldn't take up their ass. The average threes will, at least, not get overtly and dramatically defensive. Overall though, the whole 3s overreacting to negative feedback is an all too hyped up stereotype.


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## Swordsman of Mana

@Boss
I think 3s and 7s take criticism in a similar manner
3s: "oo, that stung a bit. I can fix it though, so whatever. it will just make me better"
7s: "oo, that stung a bit. whatever, I'm still awesome  "


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## rajAs

Things about enneatypes that surprised me:

*1*- Their shame about being sensitive. The ones I know are all very sensitive but don't want to show this part.

*2*- They can hurt you as hell with passive-aggressiveness.

*3*- The constant need for approval about their actions but at the same time they do whatever they want.

*4*- They can be VERY obstinate

*5*- They exist (ok, it's sarcasm, but it took me ages to meet a five)

*6*- Phobic: they can be absoultely brave; Counterphobic: they can be more afflicted than fours

*7*- There's often a hidden, non-mind related spirituality inside of them

*8*- Altruism. All 8s I know sometimes are incredibly generous.

*9*- They can achieve great things in life


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## Acerbusvenator

Tharwen said:


> you know, some people actually know how to dissect traits of other people and can trace back the reasons they exist. unlike you, i can do that.


Uhu, and I can fly. You can only dream about it.
Now, stop being silly. Even if you could, it would have no impact on it being empirical evidence or not. You just said that to try to insult me because you got so butthurt about not understanding statistics.

For someone who hates stereotypical behavior, you are really good at displaying stereotypical inferior Ti.


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## mrgreendots

I'll try to find some stuff for the types I gotten to know so far but there hasn't been much I noticed that actually surprised me, most of the stuff seemed pretty accurate for their type.

9s: 
They developed two healthy ways of releasing aggression I hadn't expected: The first one is through humor where they joke about themselves being angry when in reality they're actually angry but they look at it in a lighter manner. And then the second one where you've irked them but they remain completely calm while throwing a very well hidden insult. 
For example:
Me: He's just saying that because he doesn't want to hurt your feelings
Him: *I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings*
I later realized that he meant me. They're insult ninjas when they want to be.

7s: Are surprisingly aware of hidden meanings around them but they're unaware that they're supposed to be hidden.

6s: For how paranoid people say they are, they are quite scatter brained.


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## kaleidoscope

Figure said:


> I found this a bit strange at first, but verified it earlier today with a 6w5 (ISTP) I work with. There's a focus about it that makes him seem very confident, and usually given the time, his communication always accounts for things most people would not have ever considered. It's almost as if, whether or not he is truly sure, he has accounted for so much that to others who are not as unsure, his answer seems almost _over_credible. If other 6w5 are this way and they truly aren't sure, there must be at times a significant divide between how the 6 sees a situation and how the 6 comes across to others*.*


I think I understand what you're saying. In the instance of my father (not wanting to generalize out of one experience), I always had the impression he was too sure of himself. When he made judgments, reacted preemptively, projected, any form of reaction, it always seemed to come from a place of "I know I'm right because I thought of X, Y, Z. You're wrong because you haven't." It took a while for me to realize that he did this BECAUSE he wasn't sure of himself.. if that makes sense.


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## Figure

kaleidoscope said:


> I think I understand what you're saying. In the instance of my father (not wanting to generalize out of one experience), I always had the impression he was too sure of himself. When he made judgments, reacted preemptively, projected, any form of reaction, it always seemed to come from a place of "I know I'm right because I thought of X, Y, Z. You're wrong because you haven't." It took a while for me to realize that he did this BECAUSE he wasn't sure of himself.. if that makes sense.


Yeah, exactly, as if they are sure of being unsure, and are sure you should be too.


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## Tharwen

Acerbusvenator said:


> Uhu, and I can fly. You can only dream about it.
> Now, stop being silly. Even if you could, it would have no impact on it being empirical evidence or not. You just said that to try to insult me because you got so butthurt about not understanding statistics.
> 
> For someone who hates stereotypical behavior, you are really good at displaying stereotypical inferior Ti.


ahem, definition of empirical evidence? proof. do i have it? yes.
am i butthrut? seriously, youre lame for saying that.

you want my real motive for saying it? im disappointed in your capabilities. and im trying to cope my disappointment with humour. so as to make this worthwhile for me.


----------



## Teybo

Figure said:


> @Teybo (do you still type at 6?)


I don't find the enneagram as personally insightful and applicable as the MBTI, since I tend to see parts of myself in many of the enneatypes, but if I were to pick the "most like me" enneatype, it's probably the 4.


----------



## mushr00m

Figure said:


> I found this a bit strange at first, but verified it earlier today with a 6w5 (ISTP) I work with. There's a focus about it that makes him seem very confident, and usually given the time, his communication always accounts for things most people would not have ever considered. It's almost as if, whether or not he is truly sure, he has accounted for so much that to others who are not as unsure, his answer seems almost _over_credible. If other 6w5 are this way and they truly aren't sure, there must be at times a significant divide between how the 6 sees a situation and how the 6 comes across to others.


This is interesting, ill just pitch in and say this I relate to this although, I actually feel constantly underprepared mentally and so in actuality, over prepare mentally to compensate due to fear of being caught off guard, like there is plan a - if that doesn't work, move on to plan b and so on. Like a constant mental contingency plan. Its exhausting :laughing: And of course, im shocked that people think im unassuming yet I have the whole situation figured out, to the best of my knowledge. As far as 7 wing's go, I would say my thinking probably is more scattered, it's hard to discern that in myself because what is actually scattered? Its not always scattered, sometimes im incredibly focused. Interesting discussions.


----------



## mushr00m

mrgreendots said:


> 6s: For how paranoid people say they are, they are quite scatter brained.


We are just human, sometimes we get it wrong, we don't have supernatural X ray vision, lol although I think some like to think they do, naturally :tongue:


----------



## VamPie

I don't think I have very insightful observations about every type, but I'll try:

1: They can be very charming and likeable, and a heart of a social circle. 
2: Their dark side is really scary 
3: Not as vain or greedy as some description say. Often very auto-ironic. 
4: It's easy to confuse things they are really sensitive about with those which aren't, as they may display a lot of feelings about something not so relevant because they have fun out of it, while they may hide deeper problems.
5: Actually have pretty strong emotions. Appear distant, but it doesn't mean they're shy.
6: Dunno, really.
7: Can be very responsible and caring, unlike the crazy reveller stereotype says.
8: Often surprisingly sensitive.
9: Dunno.


----------



## Bardo

Figure said:


> *5's: *that they can actually have separate internal monologues


...who has told YOU of the *knowledge fairy*?!


----------



## Bardo

VamPie said:


> 3: Not as vain or greedy as some description say. Often very auto-ironic.


What is auto-ironic?


----------



## Harpyja

1. They can be quite chaotic behind the fassade of sheer discipline and order. 
2. Dunno.
3. Vain and opportunistic - but also kind, supportive, helpful, hart workers. Know both types.
4. You can actually take all the crap within you and make something beautiful out of it.
5. Can be very attached, although it is not shown emotionally - but in sneaky little ways, which shows
that they watch you all the time.
6. Dunno
7. With a good connection, one can talk and share everything with them, not just the funny stuff. 
8. Blow up about trifles  (I will never understand that), but in times of crisis don't fuss and often do the right thing out of instinct :happy:. Can be very gentle, especially when one doesn't expect it.
9. Dunno


----------



## cudibloop

*7: *7w6s are just as evil, aggressive and horny as 7w8s
*3: *They're actually kind of boring


----------



## Figure

cudibloop said:


> *7: *7w6s are just as evil, aggressive and horny as 7w8s


Hey now.


----------



## Antipode

mrgreendots said:


> 9s:
> They developed two healthy ways of releasing aggression I hadn't expected: The first one is through humor where they joke about themselves being angry when in reality they're actually angry but they look at it in a lighter manner. And then the second one where you've irked them but they remain completely calm while throwing a very well hidden insult.
> For example:
> Me: He's just saying that because he doesn't want to hurt your feelings
> Him: *I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings*
> I later realized that he meant me. They're insult ninjas when they want to be.


Best thing I've read! 9's will kick the shit out of you if they are angry, but you won't ever know it; and they prefer it that way. Whereas some other types will desire the reaction, we just want to let off some steam while keeping the peace. 

We are all assholes at heart. :/

On a side note, to that person who went on a rant about 9's not having an "inner world:"

While I could be mistaking what he means by an inner world, but as a dominate introverted intuitive, I can assure you my inner world comes first.

Secondly, you [too lazy to go back and figure out his name and mention him] complained that people of a type...dish out actions that are accustomed to their type. You realize that's like getting angry at a dog for barking instead of meowing, right? They are that type for a reason--regardless of the number of stereotypes they happen to project, it doesn't make their inner world any less existing. 

Finally, you claim you are in a "loop." A loop is a deficiency to utilize all your obtained functions, resulting in a loop between certain functions. Thus, by definition, you aren't equipped to be making any observations that result in "empirical" truth.


----------



## monemi

cudibloop said:


> *7: *7w6s are just as evil, aggressive and horny as 7w8s


Shush you! Don't go around exposing all our secrets.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

cudibloop said:


> *7: *7w6s are just as evil, aggressive and horny as 7w8s












7w6s are a little more strategic with their aggression, but it's definitely there. my drive for revenge is strong when I feel someone has seriously wronged me, but, unlike 7w8s, I need to plan it out or I don't know what to do (accessing my gut requires me to know what I'm doing first)

I've also noticed 7w6s are more likely to confront someone over things that a 7w8 would just ignore. for instance, if you forcefully slapped a 7w8 on the back, many would just laugh (playing rough is not a big deal to them). on the other hand, most 7w6s would definitely not like this and many would react aggressively (I've back handed people for less. forcefully laying your hands on my body without my permission is NOT to be tolerated)



> *3: *They're actually kind of boring


true (except Sx dom 3s)


----------



## Animal

cudibloop said:


> *7: *7w6s are just as evil, aggressive and horny as 7w8s


There is nothing on this planet as aggressive and horny as a 7w8 except maybe a school of dolphins. As for _evil_, 7w6 takes the cake.


----------



## DomNapoleon

Swordsman of Mana said:


> true (*except Sx dom 3s*)


----------



## cudibloop

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 7w6s are a little more strategic with their aggression, but it's definitely there. my drive for revenge is strong when I feel someone has seriously wronged me, but, unlike 7w8s, I need to plan it out or I don't know what to do (accessing my gut requires me to know what I'm doing first)
> 
> I've also noticed 7w6s are more likely to confront someone over things that a 7w8 would just ignore. for instance, if you forcefully slapped a 7w8 on the back, many would just laugh (playing rough is not a big deal to them). on the other hand, most 7w6s would definitely not like this and many would react aggressively (I've back handed people for less. forcefully laying your hands on my body without my permission is NOT to be tolerated)
> 
> 
> true (except Sx dom 3s)


I always assumed you guys just happily soaked sh-t up like spongebob.


----------



## Animal

kaleidoscope said:


> Here's the type 4 version of it


Amazing thread!!!! I had to comment. :kitteh:

To summarize what I wrote in the other thread, I've had a very active fantasy life, but rather than having a narration, I have enacted these fantasies and forced reality to bend to my will. The moment I was born I said, "Look out reality!! My imagination is _here_ and it will shake your very foundation. I shall never succumb to your meaningless, impotent nonsense! Take my voice, take my health, take my money, take my friends and let them betray me, take the people I love away from me. Go on, nice try, I dare you to try again! If you want to defeat my passion, you're gonna have to kill me!" :laughing:


----------



## chimeric

One of my closest friends is type 1. She comes across as cold and intimidating, but is actually a lot more emotionally fragile than people would think (always resilient/strong in action, but sometimes surprisingly upset and stressed-out in private). She also values her personal connections with a much greater intensity/depth than most people do (or would think she does). I can't say whether this is true for most type 1s, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.


----------



## Helios

sleepyhead said:


> The narration for me is literally like a voice reading a story - it's me telling myself what I'm doing and what I'm seeing. It's like an echo of reality without entirely participating in reality. It used to be a constant thing but I've done practice quieting it and just being present. I figured it was just something everyone did until my early 20's when I started asking people if they had an inner narration/monologue. It's just the technique my mind has manifested to make me feel separate, and therefore safer - I think other 5's techniques will probably vary to some degree.
> 
> I would imagine most people, regardless of type, have some kind of manifestation of inner monologue. It's hard for me to say exactly what my inner monologue/thoughts say aside from the narrating because I don't tend to separate myself from it and that makes it harder to consciously notice. I fall into the trap of not being aware of my thoughts because I see my thoughts as me - there's no separation between "thinking" and "being" when I'm in the average levels. I automatically default to "thinking" from my ego which keeps me locked in observer mode, and because it happens so naturally I can be physically present and observe everything around me with great detail, but I still see myself as not really participating and being outside of the action.
> 
> I don't know if that will really make sense to anyone who isn't me.


I don't really have an inner monologue like that. And whatever internal thing I have is more of an array of images than a voice that narrates/talks. It may or may be related to what I'm doing or seeing but sometimes it's related to something else that's just stuck on my mind. However, when doing lots of things (whether that be exploring things in my head or anything out in reality or whatever), often times it can seem quite automatic. There is no real sense of attachment to either. However until comparing that to your experience, I never realized what "living in my body" really meant until now. xD



Swordsman of Mana said:


> actually, that would make sense. (it could just be people with strong Sp in general. ("no! those are MY resources!" :angry: )


"Don't touch my shit!" hahaha. Story of my life.


----------



## Sonny

Paradigm said:


> Me too. Add "people reading over my shoulder," as well.
> 
> I kind of thought it was an sp/sx thing. Maybe SOC-last.


I'm So/Sx and it shits me too. I hate people touching me without it either being someone who I am comfortable with on that level, or with permission. Hate it.


----------



## nujabes

what if your inner monologue is a formless, shape-shifting blob of Id?

sometimes it turns red and growls at me in French


----------



## d e c a d e n t

nujabes said:


> what if your inner monologue is a formless, shape-shifting blob of Id?
> 
> sometimes it turns red and growls at me in French


That sounds kind of hot. :tongue:


----------



## Harpyja

If it is a blob-ID, mine is multi-language-gifted. Depending in which language I read most at a time, it babbles forth happily in french, spanish, english...  You speak your mothertongue and at the same time think in spanish or something. Crazy.


----------



## Paradigm

Sonny said:


> I'm So/Sx and it shits me too. I hate people touching me without it either being someone who I am comfortable with on that level, or with permission. Hate it.


Well, then, here's a surprise to learn about so/sx!

---

I've learned that there are insecure 3s. They're still assertive, but more in a stubborn way than a "break down all obstacles ever" way.


----------



## nujabes

7: can appear to be 5-style keyboard commando on internet forums


----------



## Figure

nujabes said:


> 7: can appear to be 5-style keyboard commando on internet forums


What do you mean by that, that they can have multiple personae online? Or that they can be observant like 5's are stereotyped?


----------



## nujabes

Figure said:


> What do you mean by that, that they can have multiple personae online? Or that they can be observant like 5's are stereotyped?


The internet gives infinite prep time to make responses, so 5's can let out their observations and commentary much more easily.

7's do the same thing, whether it's IRL or online.


----------



## VamPie

nujabes said:


> The internet gives infinite prep time to make responses, so 5's can let out their observations and commentary much more easily.
> 
> 7's do the same thing, whether it's IRL or online.


Dunno, I'm not that different irl than online, except that online I put more effort into being clear and delicate, as lack of non-verbal communication creates a lot of misunderstanding. I don't think I need a lot of time to make response.

Online 5's lengthy responses are better accepted - nobody tries to interrupt me. Posts may be ignored but it's less frustrating then being interrupted. And also I can ignore boring or simply stupid posts. ^^

Hm, I wonder if there is some dependence on how people differ irl and online. I used to be a part of a forum and when we finally meet some of us turned out to be about as we appeared online (me, a 7 friend, two 3 friends and some others, I guess some 9s and 6s that I don't know that much) and some were pretty different... :/ Can it depend on the type or maybe on health level?


----------



## Midnight Runner

Figure said:


> *2's: *that despite their warmth they are actually very intense inside, and at times, angry





Boss said:


> *Type 2:*
> 
> a) Twos are rejection-triaders. Like 8s and 5s, they are power-oriented and independence focused. Unhealthy 2s can be clingy and guilt trippy, but these are actually strategies of control. They can have a tremendous amount of unmet emotional needs and expectations that they deny up to a point, because their self-worth is affirmed through receiving love and approval for their seemingly selfless generosity. When in fact, there are strings attached; and, the two will manipulate others into getting these emotional needs met. *For all their outward positivity and even effervescence, 2s can be very angry and resentful inside.* Despite their seeming gentleness/warmth, Twos know exactly where they stand and what they want. They are consummate power players who are poorly understood in online forum communities. Their prideful nature is often overlooked in favour of, foolishly, portraying them as overly placating and needy mother hens.
> 
> b) Social 2s are amongst the most ambitious and influential types on the Enneagram. It's not uncommon for social 2 (men usually) to mistype as 8s. They're often very assertive and can be aggressive.


Hahahaha, good GOD yes. I have stricken friends dumb from surprise on the rare occasions that I let it out, but there is a very deep well of anger and resentment hiding under the surface of me. I definitely swear a lot when I'm doing something somewhat frustrating, but it's in a "all in good fun" sort of way. It actually takes something huge to truly rouse my anger, but it's hard to stop myself when it comes out.

More than that, I think something people miss when it comes to 2s isn't just that we're manipulative, or power-driven, or ambitious, it's that (at least with myself; instinctual stacking and wing might have something to do with it) I have to be in control, or I don't act. If I don't know how someone will react to something, it is entirely frightening to do that something. In the vast majority of cases, this scares me away from acting until I can be certain of how they will react. This leads me to, as I've put in the past, cracking people open like walnuts to figure them out. Listening to their troubles is as much to help them and make them think I'm a good/important/lovable person as it is to figure them out. When I have them figured out, I _own_ that person.

It's also usually around that time that I begin to get bored with the person in question. When there's no more mystery to them, I'm not as interested in them any more.



VamPie said:


> Hm, I wonder if there is some dependence on how people differ irl and online. I used to be a part of a forum and when we finally meet some of us turned out to be about as we appeared online (me, a 7 friend, two 3 friends and some others, I guess some 9s and 6s that I don't know that much) and some were pretty different... :/ Can it depend on the type or maybe on health level?


I know when I talk to people online, either through a forum or a chat service, I have more time to think about what I say, so I tend to be more clear in how I express myself. In general, I make fewer jokes on the forum than I do in person or in chats, but between chatting and real life I act pretty much the same way. Always have, really.


----------



## kaleidoscope

Midnight Runner said:


> Hahahaha, good GOD yes. I have stricken friends dumb from surprise on the rare occasions that I let it out, but there is a very deep well of anger and resentment hiding under the surface of me. I definitely swear a lot when I'm doing something somewhat frustrating, but it's in a "all in good fun" sort of way. It actually takes something huge to truly rouse my anger, but it's hard to stop myself when it comes out.
> 
> More than that, I think something people miss when it comes to 2s isn't just that we're manipulative, or power-driven, or ambitious, it's that (at least with myself; instinctual stacking and wing might have something to do with it) I have to be in control, or I don't act. If I don't know how someone will react to something, it is entirely frightening to do that something. In the vast majority of cases, this scares me away from acting until I can be certain of how they will react. This leads me to, as I've put in the past, cracking people open like walnuts to figure them out. Listening to their troubles is as much to help them and make them think I'm a good/important/lovable person as it is to figure them out. When I have them figured out, I _own_ that person.
> 
> It's also usually around that time that I begin to get bored with the person in question. When there's no more mystery to them, I'm not as interested in them any more.


This explains why 2s are in the "rejection triad" *so *much more than the RH explanation! Thank you for explaining, this is so interesting. Out of curiosity, what is your tritype? Are you SX-dominant?


----------



## Helios

VamPie said:


> Dunno, I'm not that different irl than online, except that online I put more effort into being clear and delicate, as lack of non-verbal communication creates a lot of misunderstanding. I don't think I need a lot of time to make response.
> 
> Online 5's lengthy responses are better accepted - nobody tries to interrupt me. Posts may be ignored but it's less frustrating then being interrupted. And also I can ignore boring or simply stupid posts. ^^
> 
> Hm, I wonder if there is some dependence on how people differ irl and online. I used to be a part of a forum and when we finally meet some of us turned out to be about as we appeared online (me, a 7 friend, two 3 friends and some others, I guess some 9s and 6s that I don't know that much) and some were pretty different... :/ Can it depend on the type or maybe on health level?


I think that online I have an easier time actually writing out how I think since it's just me and my thoughts. My written speech and verbal speech are two different animals, and if you heard me talk versus reading my writing you wouldn't think that they are the same people. I think since sentiment doesn't always transfer well via text, I can come off snarkier, harsher, more eloquent, and more serious/formal than I really am in a face to face conversation.


----------



## meridannight

nujabes said:


> The internet gives infinite prep time to make responses,



infinite prep time to make a response? i just type the response immediately after i read something. i might edit it after a re-read if i come up with something different within the immediate few minutes after that or so, but i don't infinitely ponder at how to respond. lols.


----------



## Animal

meridannight said:


> infinite prep time to make a response? i just type the response immediately after i read something. i might edit it after a re-read if i come up with something different within the immediate few minutes after that or so, but i don't infinitely ponder at how to respond. lols.


Same here. Then I end up editing. I never think first.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Heh, I would say I usually spend some time thinking about what to write before I post in a forum thread, but sometimes I end up posting something stupid after all. :tongue:


----------



## Midnight Runner

kaleidoscope said:


> This explains why 2s are in the "rejection triad" *so *much more than the RH explanation! Thank you for explaining, this is so interesting. Out of curiosity, what is your tritype? Are you SX-dominant?


Yeah, R&H don't have a good description for 2s especially. It's really sad how so many miss the mark on them, though some (such as Palmer, Naranjo, and Rhodes) really hit it on the head. I also don't believe in tritype, though I'm a 2w1 sp/sx.


----------



## Figure

Midnight Runner said:


> More than that, I think something people miss when it comes to 2s isn't just that we're manipulative, or power-driven, or ambitious, it's that (at least with myself; instinctual stacking and wing might have something to do with it) I have to be in control, or I don't act. If I don't know how someone will react to something, it is entirely frightening to do that something. In the vast majority of cases, this scares me away from acting until I can be certain of how they will react. This leads me to, as I've put in the past, cracking people open like walnuts to figure them out. Listening to their troubles is as much to help them and make them think I'm a good/important/lovable person as it is to figure them out. *When I have them figured out, I own that person*.


It's really refreshing to see a quality post about 2's here, thank you. 

You've actually really helped me understand something about my mom (2w1) that has always been an area of unfinished business. She'll often say these things that I perceive to be at most _half_ true - "we protect each other," "I know how your feelings work, what bugs you, etc" "we've really got through some bad times when you were a kid," and "you act gruff but are sweet underneath." My perception is of not needing others for "protection," blocking out my "feelings" too well for others to _actually_ get, and that my childhood was fine, and that in general I do not want or deserve that much attention. It was hard to respond without reacting, and all of this was always a countdown for a _really _messy showdown within days. 

From your bolded sentence and what I can remember about being home, it sounds like 2's might struggle from a conflict between wanting to merge (and in doing so, "own") as a way of compensating, and simply existing as they are in full depth (the integration to 4). And that when they begin to recognize more about their own beauty as-is, they can actually love the way others _really_ want them to, without yanking them in. The "ownership" becomes more of self, and ironically more for others too. 

Am I understanding this correctly or off in space? Something you wrote struck a cord, literally, close to home.


----------



## Midnight Runner

Figure said:


> Am I understanding this correctly or off in space? Something you wrote struck a cord, literally, close to home.


Mm. Yes and no. It's not about merging with another person, it never has been; if anything, that's the arena of the 9. For me it's just about feeling like others care for me the way I care for them, about them making me as important as I've made them. Figuring people out is part solving a mystery and part making sure I know what to do and say around them to avoid being rejected by them.

The inner conflict comes in as a fight between the fear of rejection and the fear of never being close enough to someone to be loved. So I manipulate, cheat, and lie to make people love me, and I put on the best possible face to do so as the situation calls for it. On several occasions I've pushed people away for fear of being rejected by them; this way, I was the one doing the rejection, and so couldn't be hurt by them in return. What's helped me most in terms of personal growth has been finding people who don't just love me more when I do more things for them. I receive the affection I look for, they make me feel important, and I get to actually look inside myself instead of constantly looking outside myself.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

So doms: 
- often surprisingly intellectual (especially So/Sp. almost all the So/Sp's I know are smart as hell)
- often realize how they're perceived, but don't necessarily care
- not nearly as fake an So last would tend to believe


Sp doms: 
- very much concerned with family. tend to look out for "their own" (which would seem like a Social thing)
- often lack the adaptability of other variants. they want to adapt their environment to themselves and view the reverse as extremely inconvenient
- are often more 1-1 than Sx doms (at the very least, Sp/Sx is certainly more 1-1 than Sx/So)

Sx doms: 
- have a fiery, angry, quasi-8w7ish quality to them
- instinctually prioritize being turned on over a stable, 1-1 relationship (wanting/appreciating the latter comes with maturity)


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

*8w7s*: have a surprisingly feminine side. the more diva-ish 7 wing brings a taste for extravagance, comfort and self indulgence and they're more likely to want to pamper themselves, wear slightly flamboyant clothing and discuss artistic pursuits than the more paternal 8w9 (8w9 and 1w9 are, imo, the most traditionally masculine types). (this will be more true of the 8w7sw7w6 than the more down to business 8w7sw9w8)

*8w9s*: just as aggressive as 8w7. in fact, they're often *more* angry, *more* aggressive and *more* dangerous (it's just that, given the 9 wing, you're not going to see it). being double gut center and lacking the 7 wing to "lighten them up", 8w9's anger is typically more explosive and unpredictable and, once it starts, 9's tendencies of disassociation kick in, so they can do more damage because they're less aware of what they're doing, only to turn around later and realize "what have I done?!".


----------



## kaleidoscope

Swordsman of Mana said:


> Sx doms:
> - have a fiery, angry, quasi-8w7ish quality to them
> - instinctually prioritize being turned on over a stable, 1-1 relationship (wanting/appreciating the latter comes with maturity)


The first part of your post was excellent, but honestly, I think you idealize Sx types way too much. You post a lot about them being so 'crazy' and 'messed up', but I'd say that speaks more of unhealthiness than average health. Some Sx types don't really care about fucking everything that moves and throwing away their entire life for the sake of being reckless. 

These depictions of Sx doms really make me uncomfortable about typing as one, even though deep down, I know that's my neurosis and truly what fits me best. 

Also, what do you mean by "turned on"? Do you mean sexually, or just in general, being stimulated and energized by someone/something? If it's the latter, I relate. Sometimes, I feel like all that matters to me is that rush I get, so much more than stability and familiarity. I want the ecstasy, the fascination, or else it feels bland.


----------



## Animal

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *8w7s*: have a surprisingly feminine side. the more diva-ish 7 wing brings a taste for extravagance, comfort and self indulgence and they're more likely to want to pamper themselves, wear slightly flamboyant clothing and discuss artistic pursuits than the more paternal 8w9 (8w9 and 1w9 are, imo, the most traditionally masculine types). (this will be more true of the 8w7sw7w6 than the more down to business 8w7sw9w8)


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

kaleidoscope said:


> The first part of your post was excellent


good



> but honestly, I think you idealize Sx types way too much.


the opposite. I idealize (and idolize) _self preservation_ types too much. I was reluctant to type as an Sx dom for almost a year



> You post a lot about them being so 'crazy' and 'messed up', but I'd say that speaks more of unhealthiness than average health. Some Sx types don't really care about fucking everything that moves and throwing away their entire life for the sake of being reckless.


fucking everything that moves: no
fucking the object(s) of their desire: yes




> These depictions of Sx doms really make me uncomfortable about typing as one, even though deep down, I know that's my neurosis and truly what fits me best.


more evidence that I don't idolize them :tongue:
I'm honest about the downsides of all the types



> Also, what do you mean by "turned on"? Do you mean sexually, or just in general, being stimulated and energized by someone/something? If it's the latter, I relate. Sometimes, I feel like all that matters to me is that rush I get, so much more than stability and familiarity. I want the ecstasy, the fascination, or else it feels bland.


I meant both.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

Animal said:


>


bingo! :wink:


----------



## Inguz

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *8w7s*: have a surprisingly feminine side. the more diva-ish 7 wing brings a taste for extravagance, comfort and self indulgence and they're more likely to want to pamper themselves, wear slightly flamboyant clothing and discuss artistic pursuits than the more paternal 8w9 (8w9 and 1w9 are, imo, the most traditionally masculine types). (this will be more true of the 8w7sw7w6 than the more down to business 8w7sw9w8)


The only thing that is true about this is the self-indulgence. Rest is from Mars.


----------



## nujabes

Swordsman of Mana said:


> So doms:
> - often surprisingly intellectual (especially So/Sp. almost all the So/Sp's I know are smart as hell)
> - often realize how they're perceived, but don't necessarily care
> - not nearly as fake an So last would tend to believe


Are So doms known as unintellectual?

Are So doms seen as fake???


----------



## meridannight

Swordsman of Mana said:


> fucking everything that moves: no
> *fucking the object(s) of their desire: yes*



fuck yes!


----------



## meridannight

Swordsman of Mana said:


> fucking the object(s) of their desire: yes


and 'fucking' is putting it lightly. i want to fuck them to death, till there's nothing left of them or myself. i want complete full 100% concentration on the physical immersion between myself and them. i want to fuck them forever...die fucking them.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

nujabes said:


> Are So doms known as unintellectual?


no, but their intellectual tendencies typically go unnoticed.



> Are So doms seen as fake???


yes


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

meridannight said:


> and 'fucking' is putting it lightly. i want to fuck them to death, till there's nothing left of them or myself. i want complete full 100% concentration on the physical immersion between myself and them. i want to fuck them forever...die fucking them.


this is definitely the case for most 7 and 8 Sx doms (we're hedonistic monsters mwahaha!  ), but an Sx dom who was, say, 9w1 wouldn't relate, so I didn't want to overdo it :tongue:


----------



## Helios

meridannight said:


> and 'fucking' is putting it lightly. i want to fuck them to death, till there's nothing left of them or myself. i want complete full 100% concentration on the physical immersion between myself and them. i want to fuck them forever...die fucking them.


Oh well this is kind of similar to how I described "merging" to @wisterias once. :kitteh:

It's not just a physical immersion but everything is pretty much consumed in the process as we both come undone and just melt into each other.


----------



## meridannight

Ananael said:


> It's not just a physical immersion but everything is pretty much consumed in the process as we both come undone and just melt into each other.


that's such a fucking turn-on. that's how i want it, coming undone and being extinguished while fucking someone into oblivion....doesn't make those animals that die after mating with another sound so crazy after all. if i knew i'd die from fucking, i'd still do it. i'd be a lot more selective about who i'd do it with, but i'd still do it. because it feels so fucking good. it's worth it.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

Ananael said:


> Oh well this is kind of similar to how I described "merging" to @wisterias once. :kitteh:
> It's not just a physical immersion but everything is pretty much consumed in the process as we both come undone and just melt into each other.


consider my doubts about your instinctual variant laid to rest


----------



## The Scorched Earth

meridannight said:


> and 'fucking' is putting it lightly. i want to fuck them to death, till there's nothing left of them or myself. i want complete full 100% concentration on the physical immersion between myself and them. i want to fuck them forever...die fucking them.


In other words, you like it rough?


----------



## The Scorched Earth

Swordsman of Mana said:


> this is definitely the case for most 7 and 8 Sx doms (we're hedonistic monsters mwahaha!  ), but an Sx dom who was, say, 9w1 wouldn't relate, so I didn't want to overdo it :tongue:


I would think a Sx 1 would feel pretty guilty about fucking someone to death.


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Ice Ghost said:


> I would think a Sx 1 would feel pretty guilty about fucking someone to death.


Not as long as it didn't go against their values. :tongue:


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

Ice Ghost said:


> I would think a Sx 1 would feel pretty guilty about fucking someone to death.


superego + Sx tends to clash in general (except with 2s)


----------



## Arya

Swordsman of Mana said:


> would you rather I give you an inaccurate description? edge/aggression, competition and a tendency to prioritize getting a "rush" (be it sexual, physical, emotional etc) over stability (yes, even stability in relationships) are all well documented aspects of the Sx instinct.


I have a hard time relating to aggression, and I also have a hard time relating to prioritizing getting a rush, since that's the part that scares me, unless I know I have stability. It's more my inner motivation of constantly looking for a person I can connect with, usually in a mind way for me, that tells me anything, since I don't give a f*ck about the good of the group, nor do I spend much time preparing or thinking about resources the way an SP would. Intensity would be a better word. I can be extremely intense if I trust someone, and will give them all of my attention. I am certainly not aggressive though, and all my competitiveness is below the surface where nobody can see it. I highly doubt anyone would describe me as fiery either. I'm incredibly passive and quiet, and the only thing someone else would notice, is that I'll spend my time telling you every idea I have.


----------



## Figure

Boss said:


> 7s can be generous, in an unselfconscious way with no stings attached.


That's because their id would have led them somewhere else either before or during their helpfulness if the intent wasn't there. If they help actionably, it's because they _truly did_ want to help. 



> Another thing I've noticed with mature 7s is that they don't do the positive reframing thing with others sharing painful experiences. Immature 7s (hell immature dumbasses in general) will try to lighten the subject or redirect the subject. I've noticed more and more that older 7s/mature 7s can listen to people's struggles or whatever with a mix of detachment and concerned curiosity that took me by surprise. It's exceedingly refreshing.


I'm really, really, *really* glad to hear someone notice this, let alone appreciate it. 

We can very much see it as a duty to go along with someone else and wait to hear a point where we can be realistically helpful for what their need actually is. Many times there is no point in changing or reframing the subject, when something is truly bothering someone and _not _going to go away. 

7's care isn't for your emotions or your entire scenario, it will be for what they intuit to be your most important need that would improve your situation tangibly.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

Arya said:


> *I have a hard time relating to aggression, and I also have a hard time relating to prioritizing getting a rush, since that's the part that scares me, unless I know I have stability.* It's more my inner motivation of constantly looking for a person I can connect with, usually in a mind way for me, that tells me anything, since I don't give a f*ck about the good of the group, nor do I spend much time preparing or thinking about resources the way an SP would.


at the risk of coming across like I'm trying to witch hunt you, this is VERY Self Preservation



> *Intensity would be a better word.* I can be extremely intense if I trust someone, and will give them all of my attention. I am certainly not aggressive though, and all my competitiveness is below the surface where nobody can see it. I highly doubt anyone would describe me as fiery either. I'm incredibly passive and quiet, and the only thing someone else would notice, is that I'll spend my time telling you every idea I have.


no it wouldn't, it's too vague


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

3s: they're usually very nice people. they're kind, polite, typically good listeners and charming because of how aware they are of how they come across. most descriptions make them sound like the biggest dick since Ron Jeremy.

8's: have soft innards, but not where you'd expect them to be. they're not putting up a front when they don't give a shit about most people, their opinions or about excessively punishing someone who dealt them a past wrong....but they do care about other things. often, it's at the most bizarre times (my 8w7 friend laughed during Titanic but, when he watched Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, he balled his eyes out for more than an hour. other things like tender moments in anime get to him and every once in awhile he's have to excuse himself and cry profusely out of sight) and results in an intense bout of anguish (sometimes internally, sometimes screamed out in frustration).

I think the overarching trend tends to be one of the following
- children being hurt
- some delicate/vulnerable moment being destroyed
- an ideal (usually one the 8 was initially unaware of) being crushed. it's as if they're thinking "GODDAMN IT! I THOUGHT I'D FINALLY FOUND SOMETHING GOOD IN THIS WORLD!!! :angry: ". 1s are used to this sensation because they're more aware of their idealism, moral contempt and frustration, but this sort of thing catches most 8s off guard. 
- a severe betrayal

basically, it's when that rare person/thing comes along that manages to get the 8's hopes up, make him feel like there is something worth caring about and allow to become emotionally invested in something. when this is shattered, they feel similar to a parent who has lost a child.


----------



## meridannight

Swordsman of Mana said:


> like tender moments in anime get to him and every once in awhile he's have to excuse himself and *cry profusely* out of sight


lols.




> I think the overarching trend tends to be one of the following
> - children being hurt


evil little brats. don't affect me at all. most of them deserve a good slap across the head. 



> basically, it's when *that rare person/thing comes along that manages to get the 8's hopes up, make him feel like there is something worth caring about and allow to become emotionally invested in something. when this is shattered,* they feel similar to a parent who has lost a child.


you're right here. basically, this type of thing makes you open up. and when you do and then that is destroyed, that can fuck you up a bit, yeah.


----------



## Lotan

Swordsman of Mana said:


> depends on what kind of thinking. trying to discuss theoretical physics, math or philosophy with a 7 is likely to lead to a reaction something like:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .....unless you're Richard Feynman
> 
> 7 can be very analytical and intelligent and love discussing ideas, but they lack the depth of a core ego type in their thinking style. they're not going to sit there mulling over the same thing for hours like a 5 would be prone to. thinking and conversations must be dynamic and interactive. they want to be able to tie it in with something that they think is cool (for instance, many 7s would talk to you for hours about ideas for how to build a lightsaber :laughing: ) or be able to do something with it (especially if they're Se dom).


But what if you think theoretical physics, math, and philosophy ARE cool? :wink: I also sit and mull on the same thing for hours and get very distressed if someone tries to get me to do something else but that might be an sp-dom thing...


----------



## Arya

Swordsman of Mana said:


> at the risk of coming across like I'm trying to witch hunt you, this is VERY Self Preservation
> 
> 
> no it wouldn't, it's too vague


That's why I don't come across as SX. But I'll do things like get so wrapped up talking to somebody I really like I won't eat for hours. I skip meals, never know how much is in my bank account etc. I have to have excitement, or I'll get all depressed. I crashed on my bike today while going to work and landed face down in the middle of the road. I started laughing, just because I thought it made my entire day better. Not so boring. I didn't even notice I had blood dripping down my hands for quite a while. On another day I gave myself heat stroke coming back from work. My mom wanted to know why I didn't call her, and I was thinking it really wasn't a big deal. I'm also pretty terrible about annoying guys I really like, and I'm hugely blunt about how much I like them, so long as I trust them. I've been obsessed with energy for months now, and my highest ideal for a relationship would be to meld with someone. But I'm not aggressive. There is nothing aggressive about me, and I simply cannot feel a connection unless there is stability. Even if I start off feeling chemistry or whatever, it will fade away if the stability isn't there. Intense is the best way for me to describe it. If I trust and feel a connection with a person, I'll focus all my energy on them.


----------



## Bricolage

Figure said:


> That's because their id would have led them somewhere else either before or during their helpfulness if the intent wasn't there. If they help actionably, it's because they _truly did_ want to help.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really, really, *really* glad to hear someone notice this, let alone appreciate it.
> 
> We can very much see it as a duty to go along with someone else and wait to hear a point where we can be realistically helpful for what their need actually is. Many times there is no point in changing or reframing the subject, when something is truly bothering someone and _not _going to go away.
> 
> 7's care isn't for your emotions or your entire scenario, it will be for what they intuit to be your most important need that would improve your situation tangibly.


Seven wing eight is after all called the realist.

But I see that tendency as more a connection to five and staying with experiences.


----------



## Figure

unctuousbutler said:


> Seven wing eight is after all called the realist.
> 
> But I see that tendency as more a connection to five and staying with experiences.


7w8 is called realist because w8 is direct and wants to simplify. Connection to 5 is where the perceptiveness and taking in of information comes from.

I chalk it up to the Sx, particularly Sp/Sx who will "lock on" to people they value, regardless of core type. Sp/Sx, I have noticed, have a tendency to wait cautiously for other people, then really buckle into them and merge once they believe it's a worthwhile investment of their resources.


----------



## Bricolage

Figure said:


> 7w8 is called realist because w8 is direct and wants to simplify. Connection to 5 is where the perceptiveness and taking in of information comes from.


I agree....more than perceptiveness, though, five lends the scattered seven patience and concentration.

The integration point usually counters the type's regular functioning - four to one, eight to two, etc.


----------



## VamPie

Figure said:


> Sp/Sx, I have noticed, have a tendency to wait cautiously for other people, then really buckle into them and merge once they believe it's a worthwhile investment of their resources.


Eh, I think I may be Sp/Sx then and I dislike that tendency.


----------



## Figure

VamPie said:


> Eh, I think I may be Sp/Sx then and I dislike that tendency.


It can be problematic when timing is off and you've taken too much time to zero in on someone, but if you do, all you need is the other person's commitment and you have a close, stable relationship. That's a lot more than most people have nowadays.


----------



## cudibloop

9s aren't that positive. Their brand of positive outlook comes off as less genuine than 7s or 2s. Alot of them look visibly miserable, bored, or worried but just sort of don't complain about it. It's more like a dissociative state than positive outlook.

Unhealthy 7s can also be kind of pathetic, and don't really come off as happy at all despite their hyperactivity. It actually seems like a pretty tough hole to climb out of. They just keep doing and doing, and doing, and feel absolutely nothing that lasts.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

7s: behind their child-like charm and optimism is an extremely proud individual with formidable energy. at its worst, this manifests as self righteousness, entitlement and/or vindictive spite; at its best, it manifests as a sense of healthy integrity, passion and solidarity. 



cudibloop said:


> *9s aren't that positive. Their brand of positive outlook comes off as less genuine than 7s or 2s.* Alot of them look visibly miserable, bored, or worried but just sort of don't complain about it. It's more like a dissociative state than positive outlook.


in my opinion, all the positive outlook types come across as superficial in one way or another. the "avoidant of inconvenient emotions and situations triad" would be a more accurate title imo, but obviously this is too long and doesn't have much of a ring to it.

I see your point though.
on a somewhat tangential note, many 9s are more controlling than they come across, or at least they try to be. most of the 9s I've met have a strong, internally judgmental streak to them. if you aren't doing what they want (in this instance, it's usually that you're doing something that's "disturbing" them) their natural response is to give you the cold shoulder and think less of you for what is really a trivial (or even a positive) behavior. the reason I say "try to be" is because this behavior is a big deal to them. they're covertly attempting to punish you so that you fall in line with their view of what is "harmonious", but it's typically too subtle for a more brash personality (say a cp6 or 7w8) to take notice of. however, if this doesn't work, less healthy 9s have a myriad of passive-aggressive tactics to make you behave the way they want you to. 
personally, I'll take the more direct controlling tendencies of an 8 or 1 over a 9 any day of the week. why? because, when 9s are controlling, they attempt to control your very personality. they want everyone to be "chill", quiet and low energy and are often offended by people with high energy, passion or personality. (this shit REALLY pisses me off. like, "get out of my way. I need to leave before I beat you to a bloody pulp" pissed off...)



> Unhealthy 7s can also be kind of pathetic, and don't really come off as happy at all despite their hyperactivity. It actually seems like a pretty tough hole to climb out of. They just keep doing and doing, and doing, and feel absolutely nothing that lasts


true, though other times it manifests in a more sluggish, pseudo-9 manner


----------



## VamPie

Figure said:


> It can be problematic when timing is off and you've taken too much time to zero in on someone, but if you do, all you need is the other person's commitment and you have a close, stable relationship. That's a lot more than most people have nowadays.


Yeah, but I have tendency to feel like that about everyone - friends, family, etc. Of course I'm not a small child, so I can see it and correct it. Also I dislike clinginess myself, so I'm not happy with the idea of being clingy or possessive towards others. Especially that as a five I can't really spend all the time with them.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

**1) Gut types in general are less assertive than they would appear to be at first glance (with the exception of 1w2 and 8w7). the intuitive connection to make would be that a type in the _instinctual_ triad, which primarily struggles with _anger_ would be more likely to aggressively pursue its own needs and desires, but this is not the case. more often there is a quiet frustration and a numbing of other emotions (especially in 9s and 8s. less so in 1s, but it's still there to some degree). without a wing connecting to the head or heart center, gut center types' anger is typically more introverted and self contained in nature.

2) Social blind spot types (Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp), while coming across as cool and detached, are surprisingly boring because they usually don't have much to do. 

**I realize my perception here is largely influenced by being a 7. this would probably be more obvious to an ego type (I can't imagine having gut energy and not using it to take what I want. my dad and brother are both gut types, but they don't use that gut energy for anything)


----------



## d e c a d e n t

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 2) Social blind spot types (Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp), while coming across as cool and detached, are surprisingly boring because they usually don't have much to do.


Lol, are you talking about yourself as well? :laughing: (I assume your current typing is a joke)


----------



## rajAs

More things that surprised me

not-really-healthy-7 (sx especially): rebel when talking, compliant when acting. Has always got something to tell you about how to improve your life, while his is a complete mess.

9: thinks to have every truth in his pocket. Trust me, I can't be wrong. And if you demonstrate the opposite, who cares, I'm still right. Bye.

8: the lack of aggressiveness might be seen as shyness. Actually, it's "I-don't-give-a-f***-about-you"ness.


----------



## Swordsman of Mana

Nonsense said:


> Lol, are you talking about yourself as well? :laughing:


yes



> (I assume your current typing is a joke)


yes


----------



## Sina

@_Swordsman of Mana_ is a wannabe @_Boss_.
Look he gave em both the same tritypes, in a teeny weeny bit different order, down to le subwings! roud: :laughing:


----------



## Bricolage

Boss said:


> @_Swordsman of Mana_ is a wannabe @_Boss_.
> Look he gave em both the same tritypes, in a teeny weeny bit different order, down to le subwings! roud: :laughing:


Boss, weren't you 4w3 just a few hours ago?

Anyway, congrats on 5000 posts...


----------



## HighClassSavage

rajAs said:


> More things that surprised me
> not-really-healthy-7 (sx especially): rebel when talking, compliant when acting. Has always got something to tell you about how to improve your life, while his is a complete mess.


Holy shit, yes, this is my ESTP 7w8 cousin. It's so irritating listening to him trying to be positive for me and give me suggestions on what I should do. Bitch, if everything is so damn fine and dandy then why the fuck are you thirty years old and still have no direction in life? He's also the craftiest motherfucker I know, knows how to get on everyone's good side and get what he wants. Rebel when talking, compliant when acting is totally him.


----------



## Sina

unctuousbutler said:


> Boss, weren't you 4w3 just a few hours ago?
> 
> Anyway, congrats on 5000 posts...


I change the labels to whatever suits my whim lol. 
Thanks.


----------



## Animal

Boss said:


> I change the labels to whatever suits my whim lol.
> Thanks.


You're the wildest 9w1 I've ever met :kitteh: Wanna fight? :angry:


----------



## Figure

cudibloop said:


> 9s aren't that positive. Their brand of positive outlook comes off as less genuine than 7s or 2s. Alot of them look visibly miserable, bored, or worried but just sort of don't complain about it. It's more like a dissociative state than positive outlook.


This is a very good observation. With the 9's I know, it's not a projective optimism like you get with the other two positive outlook types. I think it comes across as a being a lot more insistent than people associate with type 9, especially 9w8, but they are, after all, still a gut/will type. They try to change their environment just as 1's and 8's do - there are 9's who can be rather pushy when it comes to "connecting," then totally withdraw when it doesn't work. 

This is speculation, but it seems like being an anger type creates the expressions you've noticed, when the 9 has tried to change their environment to create peace, and not been successful. The optimism would be part of their first dig in, and go away once they haven't influenced the way they wanted.


----------



## Bricolage

Boss said:


> I change the labels to whatever suits my whim lol.
> Thanks.


I still think you're an eight.


----------



## TrippedOnReality

Figure said:


> I chalk it up to the Sx, particularly Sp/Sx who will "lock on" to people they value, regardless of core type. Sp/Sx, I have noticed, have a tendency to wait cautiously for other people, then really buckle into them and merge once they believe it's a worthwhile investment of their resources.


I had noticed this about myself years ago, but never really considered in the context of Enneagram, especially since I don't know if I've ever met someone else who did the same thing. Thanks for pointing this out; it makes a lot of sense to me.


----------



## Lotan

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 2) Social blind spot types (Sp/Sx and Sx/Sp), while coming across as cool and detached, are surprisingly boring because they usually don't have much to do.


I can see how this would seem to be the case...with me, I have a lot for ME to do, but I don't have a lot for US to do. The more people in the group the more true that is. I'm the kind of person who goes to an amusement park with a big group and suggests we all split up and go on the rides we want. Apparently that makes a lot of people uncomfortable? Doing a bunch of stuff I don't want to do and only getting to do some of what I actually want for the sake of sticking together just seems pointless to me.


----------



## Bricolage

Lotan said:


> I'm the kind of person who goes to an amusement park with a big group and suggests we all split up and go on the rides we want. Apparently that makes a lot of people uncomfortable? Doing a bunch of stuff I don't want to do and only getting to do some of what I actually want for the sake of sticking together just seems pointless to me.


Haha, the social sevens and twos like come on, it'll be fun. :wink:


----------



## Bardo

Lotan said:


> Doing a bunch of stuff I don't want to do and only getting to do some of what I actually want for the sake of sticking together just seems pointless to me.




LOL, doing shit for the sake of sticking together is the fastest way to make sure as little fun is had as possible by as many people as possible.

For some reason MORE PEOPLE = BETTER, no matter how many times the exact opposite is proven, or how thoroughly. You cant just spread emptiness around a greater area, 10 x NOTHING is still NOTHING. 

Hey, if we just all stand up and dance to this video I'm playing on youtube, somehow this shitty birthday party will be fun somehow! IT JUST WILL SUDDENLY BE GOOD BECAUSE MORE.

If we ALL go out and drink for 8 hours, somehow all the money and time we cumulatively waste and the damage we to do to ourselves, which is what makes an individual alcoholic a sad, wasteful, indulgent, desperate, ambitionless, defeated human being, will be converted into BETTER and we will all not have wasted our lives. 

Are you having a meaningful moment with a small number of your close friends and/or family? Have no fear, you can just interrupt this sickening filth by taking pictures for facebook! Shoot that conversational thread right out the air! MORE PEOPLE = BETTER. Now this deranged circus act can gain value somehow because TONS OF STRANGERS CAN SEE!!! 

Seriously SOC people your shit is unreal, get it together. Rant over, please excuse me. (deep breaths)


----------



## nujabes

Bardo said:


> LOL, doing shit for the sake of sticking together is the fastest way to make sure as little fun is had as possible by as many people as possible.
> 
> For some reason MORE PEOPLE = BETTER, no matter how many times the exact opposite is proven, or how thoroughly. You cant just spread emptiness around a greater area, 10 x NOTHING is still NOTHING.
> 
> Hey, if we just all stand up and dance to this video I'm playing on youtube, somehow this shitty birthday party will be fun somehow! IT JUST WILL SUDDENLY BE GOOD BECAUSE MORE.
> 
> If we ALL go out and drink for 8 hours, somehow all the money and time we cumulatively waste and the damage we to do to ourselves, which is what makes an individual alcoholic a sad, wasteful, indulgent, desperate, ambitionless, defeated human being, will be converted into BETTER and we will all not have wasted our lives.
> 
> Are you having a meaningful moment with a small number of your close friends and/or family? Have no fear, you can just interrupt this sickening filth by taking pictures for facebook! Shoot that conversational thread right out the air! MORE PEOPLE = BETTER. Now this deranged circus act can gain value somehow because TONS OF STRANGERS CAN SEE!!!
> 
> Seriously SOC people your shit is unreal, get it together. Rant over, please excuse me. (deep breaths)


um...

very little of this is actually applicable to the social instinct.


----------



## Bricolage

nujabes said:


> um...
> 
> very little of this is actually applicable to the social instinct.


I agree. That maybe described a narcissist more than So-dom but the post made me laugh. 

A narcissist or a young American...burn. :bored:


----------



## Bricolage

nujabes said:


> um...
> 
> very little of this is actually applicable to the social instinct.


More to the point the instincts are nowhere near that predictive. An instinct like the sexual drive or hunger is just a primordial impulse - one can readily ignore it and abstain or fast, or even transmute it. According to Bardo's logic, one is a complete slave to the instinct and, presupposing the instincts are evenly scattered across the population, one-third of people behave that way, which isn't the case. Also, getting back to enneagram instincts proper, social types can act antisocially (any type can but social types are predisposed to act that way when unhealthy) and self-pres types can develop diabetes. They're just instincts.


----------



## Sparkling

as being 3 myself, I'm suprised with my connections with 8s. Sometimes it is tough, annoying, but at the same time very reliable, very permanent, brutally honest and sincere. Rough friendship is the best term.


----------



## Sonny

Tater Tot said:


> 9: May actually enjoy arguments as long as there is no anger involved.


The amount of times I've been told in my life "would you stop arguing!" are too many to count, for me it's debate and fun and I hate that people see it as arguing cause it means it's not enjoyable for them :sad:

:crying:

Show me emotion like anger and I'll _stop cold_ cause; not worth it.


----------



## INTJellectual

My biggest surprise for me is, I can actually get along well with the other members of the Rage Triad namely Type 1 and Type 8. They have an endearing quality which I have never thought would be present to them.

Perhaps it's all about the right approach and the right communication about different individuals regardless if they belong to the same type or not.


----------



## Jangogigalo

sleepyhead said:


> I always noticed it growing up, but I didn't really become aware of it until my early 20's when I realized not everyone just naturally does it. I think how 5's take themselves out of the present moment is unique for each 5.
> 
> I wouldn't exactly say I have multiple monologues at once, but that I can simultaneously observe and think about what I'm observing - so while I narrate what I'm seeing, I'm also making judgments, creating connections from previously learned information, and having opinions about what I'm observing. It happens so fast that I don't notice it all playing out unless I'm very consciously making myself aware of it.
> 
> Sometimes when someone is talking to me about an issue it's like certain words they say become highlighted for a split second and my mind flips through a filing cabinet to find corresponding files. In that split second I'm able to make connections or pick up on subtleties others don't always see. I visualize it like multiple threads being released at once and coming together at the epicenter of my forming idea at rapid speed.


Only my second post, first one trying to find other 5's ISFP's but I couldn't explain it better as to how I think!!!


----------



## Tater Tot

Sonny said:


> The amount of times I've been told in my life "would you stop arguing!" are too many to count, for me it's debate and fun and I hate that people see it as arguing cause it means it's not enjoyable for them :sad:
> 
> :crying:
> 
> Show me emotion like anger and I'll _stop cold_ cause; not worth it.


Once someone gets angry there isn't even a point anymore because it just becomes a will of ego. :laughing:


----------



## Animal

*- 8s have emotions and express them too!*

8s are a carnal, visceral type. Emotions are states of the body. Female 8s endure hormonal changes depending on the time of the month. Male 8s feel their testosterone. IF YOU'RE IN TOUCH WITH YOUR BODY YOU ARE IN TOUCH WITH YOUR EMOTIONS. You feel them physically. 3s and 1s repress their emotions - 1 because of super-ego and 3 because of their image. 7s rationalize to avoid facing what's wrong with them because of narcissism; hence 'positive outlook.' 8s do not consciously repress or rationalize but rather _deny_ shame, weakness and vulnerability. Denial does not mean shame doesn't exist, it just means you repress it _unconsciously_. Once that shame gets kicked up it will overwhelm an 8 and transform into anger and blame very quickly. ANGER IS AN EMOTION. Sadness is an emotion not necessarily tied to shame. Passion and desire are emotions. If you embrace your animalism and repress your shame , you are not ashamed of your visceral feelings! 8s can also self-blame, thus turning their sadistic anger on themselves - but this blame is apt to turn on someone else soon enough.

Exhibit A:


* *





This video is pretty typical SX 8 - but she CRIES at one point in the video!!!






THIS IS PURE EMOTION. There is still denial of shame, as she doesn't BELIEVE this guy does not want her. She is not feeling shame about who she is in a direct way, but rather, feeling sad and indulging her desire. Rejection makes her feel desperate, out of control, like she simply cannot imagine not getting her way; but she still HAS FEELINGS AND IS NOT ASHAMED OF THEM.










*- 5s are passionate*

9 is at the crown of the enneagram, and the diagnosis is "psycho-spiritual inertia." 9s merge and have a loose sense of self. 4 and 5 are at the opposite end of enneagram and thus hold the most tightly to their sense of self. Avarice means you block out the rest of the world, even YOUR OWN BODY, so that it can't affect the state of your mind. Your mind is your temple. The opinions, ideas, philosophies and processes you build up in your mind ARE YOUR SENSE OF SELF AND YOUR SENSE OF POWER. 5 is a *power* type and that power comes from the mind. 5s will feel passionate about those things that are part of themselves, and nobody else can touch it; avarice means you're a disembodied mind; untouchable, unshakable by anyone but yourself; you are fully in control of it. It does not mean you don't have opinions, passions, and bite. With a line to 7 or 8 one has bite.

Exhibit B:


* *





@_Flatlander_ arguing on the 5 forum:

http://personalitycafe.com/type-5-f...al-variant-look-no-further-2.html#post4093612

Unless you are prepared to propose that @_Flatlander_ is mistyped, this should be cold, hard evidence that 5s have passion.




*- 4s can be cold, selfish, judgmental coquettes*

You heard it here folks! Everyone knows I FUCKING LOVE 4s. Nobody lights my fire the way 4s do. Why, you may ask? Because their finicky nitpicks about everyone else's shitty taste or inability to understand their tremendous depth, their hot and cold behavior, their testing to see if you understand them well enough or if you're unique enough to deserve to be in their presence, their enticing unique persona and their subtly desperate rescue calls pull at my every heart string, kick up my visceral instinct to rescue the wounded, provide a _genuine_ challenge, and beg for a beating that only I can give.  4s I FUCKING LOVE YOU AND I WISH YOU DIDN'T EXIST. @Tutankhamun you know what I'm talking about.

Exhibit C: 


* *





A 4 playing hot and cold with someone who loves her "just because she can." Despite her painstakingly shameful and self-deprecating motives, she's still hurting someone who loves her.


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## Swordsman of Mana

Ice Ghost said:


> ^^ Maybe it's because I've mellowed over the years. If I was on this site 10 years ago during high school, I'd come off like a raging 4w3 Sx/So.


I can relate (I came off something like 6w7>8w7>3w4 Sx/So during most of my teens. I'm sure you remember my earlier days on TypeC :tongue: ) 
age tends to have a mellowing effect =)


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## meridannight

@Figure 
That is interesting. i know 9s can be unconscious of their feelings as well. they want to avoid things that unsettle their peaceful status quo, and might thus ignore feelings that do do that. but i don't know if it comes about through a similar process.



> It's very strange. Unlike @_Animal_, I'll only experience the feeling a long time after the event that causes it. The first reaction is to plan what to do about it, then do it, think some more, and only after all that is done do I realize that I actually feel a certain way - albeit sometimes very strongly - about it as well.


i know i feel it at the time of its cause. but i usually don't become aware of it until after the trigger. sometimes long after it. 



> It's _sounding _to me like maybe a tritype/fix center sort of thing offhand. We share 478, correct?


yeah, 874.


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## xraydav

Animal said:


> How do you "know" what you feel? And what do you mean abstract?  I'm very interested.


well, the thing is that's why it's abstract. because it's questionable once I start to describe it in words.. but delving deeper into it, I can recollect emotions from particular moments in the past or from different objects? people? emotions? in the present and that just leads to like this mixture. I guess that's all i know how to describe it. another thing is, when i think of the future, i fantasize about the future and specifically my 'role' in it specifically based on how i have a gut-feeling it would be. and this reinstates how i grasp onto things in my present environment with abstract feeling rather than anything definite. 

basically all this stuff helps with reprocessing specific emotions through my mind over and over again. until I just know how to sift from one to another sometimes without even needing the 'right conditions' to feel something. sometimes by just remembering something from the past, i have a specific emotion which comes from that experience. and i know that's happiness but it's completely different from the happiness i felt yesterday during a completely different experience. and I consciously know and 'feel' how different they can be. but who can really explain that gap ? hopefully in the future we would be able to, but we need more time till that. 

not to get too far from the topic but I think this is also the difference between INFPs and ENFPs (despite being so similar in most ways). it's not that we both don't feel emotion in the same way, but ENFPs can have a hard time realizing what an INFP means when they can intuitively know what they are feeling. 

It's also explained by the extroversion-introversion gap. our dominant introversion provides us a subjective lens which allows everything we see to be much more definitive while an extrovert would have a more of an objective lens than the introvert, and this allows them to see things much as they are without it being sifted through subjective judgements and less definitely.

that's why i say when I say it's 'abstract' you reply 'what's abstract'. almost as if it didn't occur to you, but an INFP would blindly accept the word 'abstract' but in his own subjective way. 

if that makes sense...


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## DomNapoleon

Superego types are among the most independent, brave, resilient and straightforward types that I ever saw. Forget the angel in the shoulder - that is not really representative of what superego is about.


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## d e c a d e n t

meridannight said:


> That is interesting. i know 9s can be unconscious of their feelings as well. they want to avoid things that unsettle their peaceful status quo, and might thus ignore feelings that do do that. but i don't know if it comes about through a similar process.


That's one of the things that makes it hard for me to relate to type 9. I'm usually pretty aware of my feelings, even when I don't enjoy them... :/ Actually, it sounds pretty weird to me to not be aware of one's feelings. It's happening _inside of you_, how can you _not_ be aware of that?? I can try to seek out distractions to avoid discomfort but I still know there's something I'm avoiding.


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## Sina

@_Animal_ 

I actually have very strong feelings and extremely powerful impulses. Passion courses through my veins, and I am not referring to sexuality. That's a whole another beast.  I am emotionally detached and objective as hell, naturally. Growing up, nearly every emotion resembling vulnerability was unconsciously sublimated to anger. It took me a long time and some counseling to realize that was taking place. 

All Id types play with power and impulse, in their own way. I have seen the controlled (not One-ish superego self-control) calculation with regards to anger in all three id types. It's called keeping the upper-hand. It's certainly a dominance issue for 3s and 7s as well, even more so for 3s because they are control-oriented as hell. You can't keep the upper hand in a situation if you're shrieking like a banshee and losing your shit. When someone is throwing a hissyfit, the kind that'd make most people intensely uncomfortable, I tend to lean back and enjoy the damn show. The most you'd get out of me is an amused laugh. Aggression doesn't faze me in the least, except when it's Type 1 righteous indignation, in which case I get turned on. :laughing: 8s understand the workings of power and self-determination too well to just let anyone and anything ruffle their feathers.


@_Figure_

3s are very disconnected from their feelings and impulses. Being competency triaders, they naturally remove themselves from emotions to keep them from getting in the way. This can seem a lot like 8 denial of vulnerability, and at some levels, it is. But, it's done for different reasons as we know. 3s can have tremendous emotional depth, and it's especially wonderful when they remove the mask and let you in.


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## Animal

AverOblivious said:


> well, the thing is that's why it's abstract. because it's questionable once I start to describe it in words.. but delving deeper into it, I can recollect emotions from particular moments in the past or from different objects? people? emotions? in the present and that just leads to like this mixture. I guess that's all i know how to describe it. another thing is, when i think of the future, i fantasize about the future and specifically my 'role' in it specifically based on how i have a gut-feeling it would be. and this reinstates how i grasp onto things in my present environment with abstract feeling rather than anything definite. but since i've reprocessed this emotions through my mind over and over again, I just know how to sift from one to another (sometimes without even needing the 'right conditions', etc)


What is the point of recollecting emotions from the past on purpose? Why do that.. what is the aim? And also, why sift from one to the other? I am so curious =)



> not to get too far from the topic but I think this is also the difference between INFPs and ENFPs (despite being so similar in most ways). it's not that we both don't feel emotion in the same way, but ENFPs can have a hard time realizing what an INFP means when they can intuitively know what they are feeling.
> 
> It's also explained by the extroversion-introversion gap. our dominant introversion provides us a subjective lens which allows everything we see to be much more definitive while an extrovert would have a more of an objective lens than the introvert, and this allows them to see things much as they are without it being sifted through subjective judgements and less definitely.
> 
> that's why i say when I say it's 'abstract' you reply 'what's abstract'. almost as if it didn't occur to you, but an INFP would blindly accept the word 'abstract' but in his own subjective way.
> 
> if that makes sense...


There's actually a good chance that I'm an INFP. Sorting it out. What I mean by "whats abstract?" is... if you feel an emotion you feel it. I don't see what's abstract about that - it's pretty simple to me. That doesn't mean I can 'label' all my emotions, and I don't feel the need to label and define them - but what I mean is, feelings aren't a distant, abstract thing; they either are or they aren't. It's a bodily state to me, even if thoughts are spawned by it or might cause it to occur. I intuitively know what I'm feeling - there's no question what I'm feeling or at least THAT I am feeling something. I just know it so intuitively and instinctually that I don't understand what's 'abstract' about it.


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## Animal

Phoenix_Rebirth said:


> Superego types are among the most independent, brave, resilient and straightforward types that I ever saw. Forget the angel in the shoulder - that is not really representative of what superego is about.


How do you experience emotions? Is it visceral for you?


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## Animal

Nonsense said:


> That's one of the things that makes it hard for me to relate to type 9. I'm usually pretty aware of my feelings, even when I don't enjoy them... :/ *Actually, it sounds pretty weird to me to not be aware of one's feelings. It's happening inside of you, how can you not be aware of that??* I can try to seek out distractions to avoid discomfort but I still know there's something I'm avoiding.


I totally agree with the bolded. What do you do to seek distractions?


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## xraydav

Animal said:


> What is the point of recollecting emotions from the past on purpose? Why do that.. what is the aim? And also, why sift from one to the other? I am so curious =)
> 
> 
> There's actually a good chance that I'm an INFP. Sorting it out. What I mean by "whats abstract?" is... if you feel an emotion you feel it. I don't see what's abstract about that - it's pretty simple to me. That doesn't mean I can 'label' all my emotions, and I don't feel the need to label and define them - but what I mean is, feelings aren't a distant, abstract thing; they either are or they aren't. It's a bodily state to me, even if thoughts are spawned by it or might cause it to occur. I intuitively know what I'm feeling - there's no question what I'm feeling or at least THAT I am feeling something. I just know it so intuitively and instinctually that I don't understand what's 'abstract' about it.


sometimes the past helps to solidify and back up emotions. we can feel emotions very genuinely at that point. sometimes we have values and character, and self-understanding based on how well we can internalize feelings with those values, character and self-understanding. As a type three i also view emotion as a pinnacle of achievement and self-understanding knowing that i can 'feel like this'  . But it can lead to my inevitable detriment, because i start to seek self-worth sometimes in those things that bring me authentic emotion rather than those things that would be healthier to determine self-worth like completing a task very well and superbly 

it's just who i am i guess. and i'm glad you asked cause that's interesting to me as well  why do you want to know the justification to it? that is very interesting and I guess i never thought about it in that way, but i'm giving understanding it a try i guess, right now. 

there's nothing abstract about the emotion i guess... but when you use things like words to describe it, i just generally know that no matter how many words i use i can never describe exactly what i feel. that's why i call it abstract, because it's like an artwork. the painter slowly adds to color to it and then he paints another. he doesn't throw the old painting away, he just hangs it on the wall to recollect at another point in time.

i guess what i'm saying is despite being an Fi-dominant and overcontemplating my feelings and emotions (and when i do sometimes it can lead to extreme down-lows in my life), in my consciousness is an intrinsic part of my being that consistently tries to find the most authentic emotions to describe situations, events, past events, etc (anything you can think of). we do this so much that when we do get prompted to describe something we go 'omfg, where do we choose from there is so many, how can you encapsulate it into one word'. but surprisingly despite these perfectionistic tendencies, i've noticed that when i do speak how i'm feeling off the top of my mind people start to go 'yes! that's exactly how it made me feel as well.' ... 

lately i've thought i was enfp possibly, but that's just how we iNtuitives are I guess. we would love to place ourselves in other's shoes and live their awhile.


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## d e c a d e n t

Animal said:


> I totally agree with the bolded. What do you do to seek distractions?


Uhm, I guess... listen to music or think about sex? Basically the easiest way (for me) is to try to bring up other emotions that I have more control over. Or something. =P


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## Animal

AverOblivious said:


> sometimes the past helps to solidify and back up emotions. we can feel emotions very genuinely at that point. sometimes we have values and character, and self-understanding based on how well we can internalize feelings with those values, character and self-understanding.


This, I can relate to. It's not that I need to solidify or back them up, but it's more that I do look into my past in order to build self-understanding - though this is not particular to feelings. I look to all sorts of things in the past - actions, thoughts, feelings, events, other people's reactions, my goals vs. the outcomes, etc... to build self-understanding. I observe patterns. What's funny is, I am trying to figure out whether I "look for" these patterns or just sort of.. "see it"... like .. WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN!!.... an epiphany of sorts.. that spawns further thinking? I'm not sure that I do this on purpose though once I start making connections I am apt to pursue the train of thought , especially if it's relevant to something I'm experiencing now.

It's rather easy for me to know what I felt at any point in the past because I'm a songwriter, writer, musician, artist etc... so most of it gets expressed that way, at least in a language that I can read and interpret later if I so choose, or if its meaning suddenly stands out to me.



> As a type three i also view emotion as a pinnacle of achievement and self-understanding knowing that i can 'feel like this'  .But it can lead to my inevitable detriment, because i start to seek self-worth sometimes in those things that bring me authentic emotion rather than those things that would be healthier to determine self-worth like completing a task very well and superbly


That makes sense.. there are many ways to find self-worth; I don't think it all has to be related to a list on a resume. I think that stereotype is a total misread of type 3. The 3s that I know, look for self-worth in the things they find valuable; not just in a list made by some outside party or force.



> it's just who i am i guess. and i'm glad you asked cause that's interesting to me as well  why do you want to know the justification to it? that is very interesting and I guess i never thought about it in that way, but i'm giving understanding it a try i guess, right now.


Challenging someone to explain themselves can be illuminating for both parties. Sometimes people ask me similar questions, and while it can be frustrating (because self-reporting is difficult and it's hard to put these things into words) sometimes it ends up being illuminating. You bring up something I find interesting but don't understand; I bite. 



> there's nothing abstract about the emotion i guess... but when you use things like words to describe it, i just generally know that no matter how many words i use i can never describe exactly what i feel. that's why i call it abstract, because it's like an artwork. the painter slowly adds to color to it and then he paints another. he doesn't throw the old painting away, he just hangs it on the wall to recollect at another point in time.


I completely agree with this... I couldn't agree more. The language I speak most fluently is way beyond words. Music was my first language but communication is more than that. It's body language, vocal cadences, silences, spaces, clothing, color, pace. I've spent a lot of time this last year on this forum, and prior to that I've never been on a forum. It's really helped me to solidify a lot of things into words, which is good because I'm working on a fiction novel and words are necessary. But I find myself so much more fluent in speaking and reading through other means - expression that doesn't need to be qualified, categorized and verbalized.


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## Animal

Nonsense said:


> Uhm, I guess... listen to music or think about sex? Basically the easiest way (for me) is to try to bring up other emotions that I have more control over. Or something. =P


Whatever emotion I'm feeling at the time, the music doubles it. Gimme raw, primal rage; unbridled lust; overpowering sadness. Music makes my emotions larger than life. 

My aim is not to escape my emotions. Emotions make me feel so IN the music. It's sensory indulgence to the max and it comes from every bone in my body and the bottom of my heart. I become that moment. It is all that exists to me; it expands and expresses my essence in that moment; that is all I have ever been and all I will ever be.

Ironically, as Trent Reznor phrases it, "The way out is through." My hunger ends up leading me to catharsis. The phoenix roars and explodes until it is reborn.


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## Entropic

What the hell is going on about this 5s and passion in this thread. I was intending to quote but it's too damn much so I won't. Anyway, I know what @Animal means with passion and I think she has a different idea of passion than @Swordsman of Mana who I think understands passion more in the general sense of the word, hence, he thinks sx 5 would be the most passionate out of the instinctual subtypes. 

I honestly think in this case it would be more fair to consider passion in the way @Animal understands it less as a passion and more as a drive or some form of energy. It's something that motivates you to move you forward. I do think of myself as a hidden hopeless romantic because of sx neurosis but I am not sure I would really consider myself passionate, not in the traditional sense of how the word is being used. The reason why I don't consider myself passionate is because I don't feel it inside of myself. I don't feel the emotion. For most of the part I feel rather empty and devoid of content. Thus, I have a strong need or drive, in fact, calling it a hunger is a far more appropriate way of calling it, to fill myself up and I always feel existentially hungry. 

I don't consider it a passion because a passion, that's something as I see as something inherently positive like a muse or a calling to move you forward to produce something good that contributes and it makes you feel good doing so, you feel it inside as a drive as something you want to do and desire because you burn to do it. Instead, what I see myself as more of a hungry ghost who keeps eating but never feels full because I'm not quite alive in such a sense. All I am is empty. I am not sure hunger would be equivalent to passion. If anything, passion is what I eat because it is what I desire because I cannot inherently feel it within myself.


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## d e c a d e n t

Animal said:


> Whatever emotion I'm feeling at the time, the music doubles it. Gimme raw, primal rage; unbridled lust; overpowering sadness. Music makes my emotions larger than life.


Ah, my emotions never feel larger than life or anything. Even when they are rather overwhelming they feel trivial at the end of the day. There also aren't many songs I relate to much, so when I listen to a song I end up imagining that emotion rather than the emotion being fully mine.


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## xraydav

Animal said:


> This, I can relate to. It's not that I need to solidify or back them up, but it's more that I do look into my past in order to build self-understanding - though this is not particular to feelings. I look to all sorts of things in the past - actions, thoughts, feelings, events, other people's reactions, my goals vs. the outcomes, etc... to build self-understanding. I observe patterns. What's funny is, I am trying to figure out whether I "look for" these patterns or just sort of.. "see it"... like .. WHAT HAS BEEN SEEN CANNOT BE UNSEEN!!.... an epiphany of sorts.. that spawns further thinking? I'm not sure that I do this on purpose though once I start making connections I am apt to pursue the train of thought , especially if it's relevant to something I'm experiencing now.
> 
> It's rather easy for me to know what I felt at any point in the past because I'm a songwriter, writer, musician, artist etc... so most of it gets expressed that way, at least in a language that I can read and interpret later if I so choose, or if its meaning suddenly stands out to me.
> 
> 
> That makes sense.. there are many ways to find self-worth; I don't think it all has to be related to a list on a resume. I think that stereotype is a total misread of type 3. The 3s that I know, look for self-worth in the things they find valuable; not just in a list made by some outside party or force.
> 
> 
> Challenging someone to explain themselves can be illuminating for both parties. Sometimes people ask me similar questions, and while it can be frustrating (because self-reporting is difficult and it's hard to put these things into words) sometimes it ends up being illuminating. You bring up something I find interesting but don't understand; I bite.
> 
> 
> I completely agree with this... I couldn't agree more. The language I speak most fluently is way beyond words. Music was my first language but communication is more than that. It's body language, vocal cadences, silences, spaces, clothing, color, pace. I've spent a lot of time this last year on this forum, and prior to that I've never been on a forum. It's really helped me to solidify a lot of things into words, which is good because I'm working on a fiction novel and words are necessary. But I find myself so much more fluent in speaking and reading through other means - expression that doesn't need to be qualified, categorized and verbalized.


"actions, thoughts, feelings, events, other people's reactions, my goals vs. the outcomes," - Ne-dominant  
it's so much more expansive than what i presented. 

As a 3 type I can be pretty unhealthy, and feel worthless all the time because I get my hopes up way too high for things that don't require that much effort to do 'alright', etc. but yeah, i seriously need to tone down getting confirmation for my validity from outside sources as a type three. i mean, damn me, my self-worth is better than that ! 

you bring questions that i love to answer. well at least someone has decided to continue the conversation with me  

aha well that is true, that stuff is language. but yeah you won't catch me moving much :| i still don't get why infps are like that. must be all that bottled fi, thinking that all body language must communicate some emotion perfectly ,etc or they will.. mislead others ! D: 

or something like that. And I would love to read your novel, send me a copy if you want some feedback


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## Animal

ephemereality said:


> What the hell is going on about this 5s and passion in this thread. I was intending to quote but it's too damn much so I won't. Anyway, I know what @_Animal_ means with passion and I think she has a different idea of passion than @_Swordsman of Mana_ who I think understands passion more in the general sense of the word, hence, he thinks sx 5 would be the most passionate out of the instinctual subtypes.
> 
> I honestly think in this case it would be more fair to consider passion in the way @_Animal_ understands it less as a passion and more as a drive or some form of energy. It's something that motivates you to move you forward. I do think of myself as a hidden hopeless romantic because of sx neurosis but I am not sure I would really consider myself passionate, not in the traditional sense of how the word is being used. The reason why I don't consider myself passionate is because I don't feel it inside of myself. I don't feel the emotion. For most of the part I feel rather empty and devoid of content. Thus, I have a strong need or drive, in fact, calling it a hunger is a far more appropriate way of calling it, to fill myself up and I always feel existentially hungry.
> 
> I don't consider it a passion because a passion, that's something as I see as something inherently positive like a muse or a calling to move you forward to produce something good that contributes and it makes you feel good doing so, you feel it inside as a drive as something you want to do and desire because you burn to do it. Instead, what I see myself as more of a hungry ghost who keeps eating but never feels full because I'm not quite alive in such a sense. All I am is empty. I am not sure hunger would be equivalent to passion. If anything, passion is what I eat because it is what I desire because I cannot inherently feel it within myself.


You're right, passion needs to be defined if we are going to debate whether or not certain types "have it." 

- If we are to use this definition: 


> passion, that's something as I see as something inherently positive like *a muse or a calling to move you forward to produce something good that contributes and it makes you feel good doing so*, you feel it inside as a drive as something you want to do and desire because you burn to do it.


Then it is not type related. Any core type can have a muse or a calling that makes them feel good doing so. When I use the word 'passion' in this sense, I usually couple it with the word 'purpose.' _Passion and purpose. _ This means, I have a purpose in life, and I am moved by a 'muse' inside of myself to fulfill it.

- If we use the enneagram definition, with 'passion' being used as a vice (ie, 8's passion is lust, 5's passion is avarice)... then all of us equally have potential to fall prey to our own passion. In that case, any enneagram type could use their passion to try to fill their own emptiness. That is, basically, the human condition.

- If we use the definition 'passion is indulgent, powerful attraction to something' then sure, some types are more prone to particular kinds of indulgence and investment than others. But I would disagree with this as a definition for passion. Passion can pertain to mind, heart, and body. Just as I may have a passion for bloody steak, I can also have a passion for politics, other ideology, fantasy, music, or a particular person. Any person of any type can have any of these passions. 5's can have a passion for a certain type of food too. Obviously 8s or 7s, being lust and gluttony types, would behaviorally be more likely than 5s to fall into 'passionate bodily feelings/ indulgence/ excess/ sex' etc, but 7s are also mind types and can be gluttons for knowledge, and 5s have a soul-child 8 that gives them powerlust and once they do get into their bodies, they can be very sexual. The process for each type to approach different types of passion would be more difficult in some ways and less in others. For instance a 2 has a much easier time following their muse to pursue someone through giving and generosity and openness about feelings, where this would make me feel vulnerable and close up to the point where I can't do it. Even if my feelings for the person could potentially be equally powerful deep down, I repress them before they make me vulnerable. So in that sense I'm less passionate than a 2 at least if you look at my actions. But when it comes to ravaging a raw bloody steak I might appear more passionate than a 2. When you see a 5 pursuing knowledge or understanding they might appear more passionate than I.


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## Animal

AverOblivious said:


> "actions, thoughts, feelings, events, other people's reactions, my goals vs. the outcomes," - Ne-dominant
> it's so much more expansive than what i presented.
> 
> As a 3 type I can be pretty unhealthy, and feel worthless all the time because I get my hopes up way too high for things that don't require that much effort to do 'alright', etc. but yeah, i seriously need to tone down getting confirmation for my validity from outside sources as a type three. i mean, damn me, my self-worth is better than that !


If you get me talking about what an unhealthy 8 is like, I guarantee you will fall on your knees and thank the heavens that you are a 3. 



> you bring questions that i love to answer. well at least someone has decided to continue the conversation with me
> 
> aha well that is true, that stuff is language. but yeah you won't catch me moving much :| i still don't get why infps are like that. must be all that bottled fi, thinking that all body language must communicate some emotion perfectly ,etc or they will.. mislead others ! D:


Ah interesting! I've done a lot of studying & reading on enneagram but as far as MBTI or JCF, all I know is what people tell me on this site - so I won't claim to be an expert. But if a core 8 were an INFP, would she still worry about how others interpret the message she's sending? I don't know if 8s would do this regardless of the MBTI - but I'd refer to someone else's opinion on that. 

The way I see it, enneagram is "why" and JCF/MBTI/Socionics is "how." Feeling the need to communicate a specific, planned thing, that people will understand.. and cater it to an audience.. is a core 3 issue. Feeling like 'fuck them, I don't need their approval' is more of a core 8 issue. 8s repress feelings, which has been mentioned here. Obviously I don't repress passions, or visceral physical emotions - but I relate to repression in the sense that, if you ask me whether I care what others think, I'd say "nope, unless I want them" - but of course I care what others think; I'm human. Beyond that, the idea of 'catering who I am to get approval' is foreign to me, though being that I'm human, I'm sure I do it one way or another; it's just not something I'd think about or be consciously aware of due to denial/repression whatever. I just simply cannot see this in myself no matter what lens I look through, except in very enlightened, self-aware moments. I'm not sure if thats MBTI... to me it seems more of an enneagram discrepancy.

(That being said I am proud of my ability to do what I must in order to get what I want; though integrity is very important to me as well.. but anyway point being I'm oversimplifying here... to expand on this would be a whole other thread.)



> or something like that. And I would love to read your novel, send me a copy if you want some feedback


Aw thank yoU!! I will keep that in mind.


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## xraydav

Animal said:


> If you get me talking about what an unhealthy 8 is like, I guarantee you will fall on your knees and thank the heavens that you are a 3.
> 
> Ah interesting! I've done a lot of studying & reading on enneagram but as far as MBTI or JCF, all I know is what people tell me on this site - so I won't claim to be an expert. But if a core 8 were an INFP, would she still worry about how others interpret the message she's sending? I don't know if 8s would do this regardless of the MBTI - but I'd refer to someone else's opinion on that.
> 
> The way I see it, enneagram is "why" and JCF/MBTI/Socionics is "how." Feeling the need to communicate a specific, planned thing, that people will understand.. and cater it to an audience.. is a core 3 issue. Feeling like 'fuck them, I don't need their approval' is more of a core 8 issue. 8s repress feelings, which has been mentioned here. Obviously I don't repress passions, or visceral physical emotions - but I relate to repression in the sense that, if you ask me whether I care what others think, I'd say "nope, unless I want them" - but of course I care what others think; I'm human. Beyond that, the idea of 'catering who I am to get approval' is foreign to me, though being that I'm human, I'm sure I do it one way or another; it's just not something I'd think about or be consciously aware of due to denial/repression whatever. I just simply cannot see this in myself no matter what lens I look through, except in very enlightened, self-aware moments. I'm not sure if thats MBTI... to me it seems more of an enneagram discrepancy.
> 
> (That being said I am proud of my ability to do what I must in order to get what I want; though integrity is very important to me as well.. but anyway point being I'm oversimplifying here... to expand on this would be a whole other thread.)
> 
> Aw thank yoU!! I will keep that in mind.


Do type 8s get really aggressive and mean and stuff ?  BUT THAT'S COOL THOUGH  seriously.. type threes just wallow in their own filth over being not good enough for other people's expectations, which other people surely don't even care about. 

I'm not an expert either. To be honest, the only people who are experts rarely know that they are experts. 

if I said something like 'I don't need their approval it would make everything worse for someone of my enneagram type, because then they aren't accepting the fact that they truly do care and want to feel worthy on some level :/ 
and i think that's interesting how i feel a similar way about the enneagram type 8 motive. 

I find it strange how that's exactly how I view both enneagram theory and mbti theory. why and how.


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## d e c a d e n t

AverOblivious said:


> I find it strange how that's exactly how I view both enneagram theory and mbti theory. why and how.


I always thought about it that way too. Seems pretty logical to me.


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## DomNapoleon

Animal said:


> How do you experience emotions? Is it visceral for you?


Such a random question :crazy: 
It's a bit hard to talk about it 'cause I am not very aware of my own emotional states.. besides it's a very complex topic. I think I oscillate between:

1) Being drunk in my own emotions - which means I embrace them and let them affect any of my actions... sometimes in radical/absurd ways. Some would say I lack consistency and ''_I don't have it all together_''. I can experience strong feelings of vulnerability, susceptibility, weakness (and without necessarily showing them) I will embrace them, accept them as a part of me and even indulge in them. I guess I am just an hopeless idealistic. On the other hand, I can experience intense and turbulent emotions as well: anger, frustration, revenge/destructive impulses, hate, etc. However, I think those states can be quite transforming if they are well channeled (specially towards self-growing); 

AND

2) Being an emotionally detached asshole, who cares for nothing but himself and his own needs. I think this is more a defense mechanism, a coping skill that I've developed over the years in order to avoid depressive, destructive and overly negative states. Don't take me wrong, I am an insanely passionate driven person :kitteh: but sometimes I need to put feelings aside, otherwise I would be nonfunctional and my relationships with others would be chaotic. 

Conclusion: my inner word is rich, complex, paradoxical, disturbing, nonsense and it fuses together vulnerability/weakness/defenseless states with strength/power and straightforwardness.. It's magical. ;D


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## Vaka

9w1s can be incredibly destructive and cold when they're unhealthy...Give me an 8 any day, I'll hide from the unhealthy 9w1, at least there'd be no vacillation


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## Swordsman of Mana

*8s:* buried deep, deep, deep down in their core is a very guilty individual who feels like he is a fucking monster. when he begins to integrate, this guilt comes to the surface where he can deal with.

*2s:* behind that veneer of innocence and altruism, most 2s are confident, driven and controlling (be it covertly or abruptly)


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## Swordsman of Mana

1s: often up from some pretty crazy shit if it's not against their values

3s: they don't brag nearly as much as people think they do. in fact, they often come off as incredibly genuine/sincere (many can gives cores a run for their money at their own game)

4s: are just as phony as the other image types. 4s alter their genuine expression in order to _appear_ more genuine

5s: do, in fact, have genitalia :tongue:

6s: often have a propensity to brag

7s:
- will MAKE you respect them
- despite the charming exterior, 7s are often quite socially oblivious 

8s: 
- once you get into their inner circle, they're extremely loyal, often sustaining great losses in order to be so
- often accepting of people that many people of other types would instantly shun. 8s understand the difference between someone who is a bit "messed up" vs not a legitimately bad person. typically, they have less than clean records themselves and will say something along the lines of "I was the same way when I was his age. he'll turn out alright if you give him a chance" or "we were all young once"


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## meridannight

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 5s: do, in fact, have genitalia :tongue:


haha!

did you find a 5 lover?


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## kitsu

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 4s: are just as phony as the other image types. 4s alter their genuine expression in order to _appear_ more genuine


Oh my god.



> 6s: often have a propensity to brag


Oh my god.

How'd you crack our code?


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## Animal

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 4s: are just as phony as the other image types. 4s alter their genuine expression in order to _appear_ more genuine


I ALTER NO PRESENTATION :ninja:
I am helplessly and hopelessly myself. The only 'altering' I can do is to hide in my room when I'm too emotional, angry or weak, like a cat hiding its head when its sick.



> 8s:
> - once you get into their inner circle, they're extremely loyal, often sustaining great losses in order to be so
> - often accepting of people that many people of other types would instantly shun. 8s understand the difference between someone who is a bit "messed up" vs not a legitimately bad person. typically, they have less than clean records themselves and will say something along the lines of "I was the same way when I was his age. he'll turn out alright if you give him a chance" or "we were all young once"


Based on this description I would be a core 8. I think I said those exact words to @_Boss_ just yesterdayish, and even told her terrible stories of what I was like at that person's age, in my defense and understanding and forgiveness of their blunders.  And I am so much this way that my parents make fun of me for it. My father always jokingly says, "Aww, but he's a good person underneath, right?"

And tbh, my core 8 friend is a lot less forgiving of these qualities. He's more like, 'You fucked up, your actions speak for themselves regardless of intent, I don't hate you but I don't have time to deal with your shit until you sort yourself out." Although, I've been his close friend for many many years, and he would never 'discard me'. However he'll tell me "You are strong and right now... you are not honoring your strength" (in so many words) and challenge me/ expect me to pull it together. Which btw, I love him for this. And I'm honored that he trusts me enough to let me do the same for him.


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## Animal

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 5s: do, in fact, have genitalia :tongue:


On the subject of 5s (and also 4s, 9s, or anyone of any type who fits the quiet/intense stereotype)

- Quiet, shy men are often aggressive and dominant in bed.
- A higher IQ often equates wild and intense in bed.
- Men who seem mystical and magical are probably more sensual and attentive to their lover. They spend most of their time 'far away from earth' and make their own rules. They have their own deep approach to everything that isn't forced or regular. They are individualistic and react to what they feel, rather than just copying motions from porn or magazine tips.
- Someone who is a 5/ disembodied mind will come to life with a beast-like fury once they are jolted into their body in the bedroom.
- If someone reads a lot instead of watching television, they probably have a well-developed imagination and are more creative in the bedroom. Watching someone else have sex is not the same as reading a sex scene and really imagining it, or imagining yourself in it. This is why readers are better in bed.


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## Harpyja

Animal said:


> This is why readers are better in bed.


:shocked:

This gives me hope roud: *touching burning pages... sigh*


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## Sina

@Animal


Touche @ readers are good in bed. been true of my experiences with voracious readers/intellectually inclined folks.


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## Animal

Boss said:


> @_Animal_
> 
> 
> Touche @ readers are good in bed. been true of my experiences with voracious readers/intellectually inclined folks.


This inspired me to make another thread. I would *love* your input :kitteh: 

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...s-person-make-you-weak-knees.html#post4130259


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## Karma Butterfly

Animal said:


> *- 8s have emotions and express them too!*
> 
> 8s are a carnal, visceral type. Emotions are states of the body. Female 8s endure hormonal changes depending on the time of the month. Male 8s feel their testosterone. IF YOU'RE IN TOUCH WITH YOUR BODY YOU ARE IN TOUCH WITH YOUR EMOTIONS. You feel them physically. 3s and 1s repress their emotions - 1 because of super-ego and 3 because of their image. 7s rationalize to avoid facing what's wrong with them because of narcissism; hence 'positive outlook.' 8s do not consciously repress or rationalize but rather _deny_ shame, weakness and vulnerability. Denial does not mean shame doesn't exist, it just means you repress it _unconsciously_. Once that shame gets kicked up it will overwhelm an 8 and transform into anger and blame very quickly. ANGER IS AN EMOTION. Sadness is an emotion not necessarily tied to shame. Passion and desire are emotions. If you embrace your animalism and repress your shame , you are not ashamed of your visceral feelings! 8s can also self-blame, thus turning their sadistic anger on themselves - but this blame is apt to turn on someone else soon enough.
> 
> Exhibit A:
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This video is pretty typical SX 8 - but she CRIES at one point in the video!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *THIS IS PURE EMOTION. There is still denial of shame, as she doesn't BELIEVE this guy does not want her. She is not feeling shame about who she is in a direct way, but rather, feeling sad and indulging her desire. Rejection makes her feel desperate, out of control, like she simply cannot imagine not getting her way; but she still HAS FEELINGS AND IS NOT ASHAMED OF THEM.*



* *






As much as I love P!nk I haven't been able to connect to any of her more "romantic" songs. EVER.

"Who Knew", "Please Don't Leave Me", "I Don't Belive You", "Fuckin' Perfect", "Blow Me one Last Kiss", "Try" and "Just Give Me a Reason":

They all have a lot of denial of reality, self pity, nostalgia, pleas and even a lack of self respect in them. Based on her last single "True Love" and her "Try" video I'd say she has a liking to disfunctional relationships too. There's a willingless to put yourself out there and be hurt that it's totally alien to me. 

Maybe it has to do with having different wings or it's down to MBTI type, but her lyrics in these songs make my skin crawl.

I _*LOVE *_your piece on type 4. It's absolutely true :laughing:.


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## Animal

Dancing_Queen said:


> As much as I love P!nk I haven't been able to connect to any of her more "romantic" songs. EVER.
> 
> "Who Knew", "Please Don't Leave Me", "I Don't Belive You", "Fuckin' Perfect", "Blow Me one Last Kiss", "Try" and "Just Give Me a Reason":
> 
> They all have a lot of denial of reality, self pity, nostalgia, pleas and even a lack of self respect in them. Based on her last single "True Love" and her "Try" video I'd say she has a liking to disfunctional relationships too. There's a willingless to put yourself out there and be hurt that it's totally alien to me.
> 
> Maybe it has to do with having different wings or it's down to MBTI type, but her lyrics in these songs make my skin crawl.


 I see. Maybe she's not an 8 then. I totally believe you too - I thought I was an 8 for very , very good reasons but reasons like this, along with others, lead me to realize I'm a 4 - which changed a bit of my perspective on myself as well as the rest of enneagram and what 8 is about. 

So either she's very in touch with herself, or maybe shes a very "out there' SX4 like me or a 7 or some other thing. 

What music do you relate to on a personal level?



> I _*LOVE *_your piece on type 4. It's absolutely true :laughing:.


Haha! Guess I understood my own kind better. 

When I wrote that I still wasn't sure of my type, and this is the experience I had with a 4, and another 4s in the past. I don't think I behave the way I described. I'm quite direct and considerate of others' feelings when I care about them, I'm more 'foot in my mouth' blunt rather than evasive..usually


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## Karma Butterfly

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_Animal_
> 
> no, that's what 8s _think_ emotions are :tongue:
> emotions are states of the _heart_.
> 
> 
> glossing over this, it seems like emotions for an 8 can be placed into one of three categories
> 1) related to anger
> 2) quickly turns into anger
> 3) is seldom experienced and fades quickly due to denial and/or compartmentalization
> hence my point: 8s experience little in the way of emotions without self development and maturity


I feel really stupid for ever thinking you could be a type 8 :laughing:. You really don't get us.

I wonder what kind of type 8's you have interacted with.

I also find it funny how @Animal keeps describing emotions as a state of the body, though. She's _so _intense I can actually see more of her 4w8 then 8, actually.

The heart doesn't feel anything, it just pumps blood :wink:



meridannight said:


> where're you getting this? honestly, this doesn't happen to me. i know it, because i've always been painfully aware of when i'm feeling sad. it's a pretty overwhelming emotional state, thus rather impossible not to notice it. and i haven't been able to transform it into anger, because it's all bloody pointless. anger doesn't make it go away. it will only delay your dealing with whatever is going on. it's also fake. once i'm aware i'm sad, i can't transform it into anything. i'd be aware i'm trying to mask it and then i'd only become more aware of it, and i'd feel cowardly. i can take the pain. i have no problems with it at all actually. nothing can hurt me as much as to render me incapable of dealing with it.
> 
> some things hurt. it sucks. but i suck it up and deal with it. i don't have problems with sadness. life is the good and the bad. some bad things can make you more alive and teach you things about yourself you wouldn't otherwise know.
> 
> *this being said, i might have transformed it into anger a couple of times in my teenage years. but i very quickly became aware that being pissed off was masking something else instead (i actually even remember the situation that led me to this awareness), and once i figured it out i haven't been able to ever do it again.


*^
THIS*

I have no problem letting myself _feel_, I experience things to the fullest so I can get over them completely and move on wihtout ever looking back. It's better to rip off the Band-Aid and let it bleed until it coagulates.

And I've never _not_ felt aware of what I feel. I can't imagine how it is. 



meridannight said:


> there's another category:
> --felt in their genuine and raw form. even if it takes place rather unconsciously most of the time.
> 
> once the emotion registers in my consciousness i don't really have a problem with it, and mostly i actually give it free rein. the thing is, they tend not to register.


Yes, his list is funny if you don't take it seriously.

Type 8 emotions= ANGER roud:


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## Animal

Dancing_Queen said:


> I also find it funny how @_Animal_ keeps describing emotions as a state of the body, though. She's _so _intense I can actually see more of her 4w8 then 8, actually.


Yea, now you see why I was confused? :kitteh: Strong 8 fix I guess. Also, I've been forced to survive in a very physical way because of chronic illness so that might have pulled out the 8-fix even more and made me the kind of 4 who doesn't play bullshit games or create drama, since I've had real problems? It also forces me to be very attentive to my body - not that I ever wasn't. I've always been carnal as an animal even as a child.



> The heart doesn't feel anything, it just pumps blood :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> *^
> THIS*
> 
> I have no problem letting myself _feel_, I experience things to the fullest so I can get over them completely and move on wihtout ever looking back. It's better to rip off the Band-Aid and let it bleed until it coagulates.
> 
> And I've never _not_ felt aware of what I feel. I can't imagine how it is.


Agree! Trent Reznor says "The way Out is Through." THis is obvious to me.
Do you know your tritype?


I am curious though. You said in the previous posts, Pink's emotional songs made you cringe. I am wondering how you can have no problem letting yourself feel and yet that bothers you? Which feelings get cut off? Which things don't you have a problem feeling vs. which you do? Animal is intrigued.


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## Karma Butterfly

Animal said:


> I see. Maybe she's not an 8 then. I totally believe you too - I thought I was an 8 for very , very good reasons but reasons like this, along with others, lead me to realize I'm a 4 - which changed a bit of my perspective on myself as well as the rest of enneagram and what 8 is about.
> 
> So either she's very in touch with herself, or maybe shes a very "out there' SX4 like me or a 7 or some other thing.
> 
> What music do you relate to on a personal level?
> 
> 
> Haha! Guess I understood my own kind better.
> 
> When I wrote that I still wasn't sure of my type, and this is the experience I had with a 4, and another 4s in the past. I don't think I behave the way I described. I'm quite direct and considerate of others' feelings when I care about them, I'm more 'foot in my mouth' blunt rather than evasive..usually


Yes, I've been thinking you weren't an 8 lately!

I'm also painfully in touch with myself but her willingness and seemly enjoyment in displaying her vulnarable emotions aren't 8 at all.

I've always seen her as a type 7, but I don't know their wings. Sx dom for sure.

I love music so much it gets hard to poin out just a few songs, but here we go:


























I better stop now :laughing:.


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## Animal

Dancing_Queen said:


> I better stop now :laughing:.


Please never stop! roud:


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## Karma Butterfly

Animal said:


> I've always been carnal as an animal even as a child.


_Wow_, thats'...intense! :shocked:




> Agree! Trent Reznor says "The way Out is Through." THis is obvious to me.
> Do you know your tritype?


He's right :wink:

I've no idea how to find that out.




> I am curious though. You said in the previous posts, Pink's emotional songs made you cringe. I am wondering how you can have no problem letting yourself feel and yet that bothers you? Which feelings get cut off? Which things don't you have a problem feeling vs. which you do? Animal is intrigued.


I have no problem letting myself feel _my_ _own_ emotions. The feelings she portrays in those songs aren't in line with the ones I experience neither do they match my values so that's why they make me so uncomfortable.

I don't cut off anything, neither do I repress it. I just _don't_ feel that way and if I did, I'd look for theraphy because I don't think that's a healthy way of experiencing things.


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## Karma Butterfly

Animal said:


> Please never stop! roud:


Can I go on? :shocked:

Ok, then


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## Animal

Dancing_Queen said:


> I have no problem letting myself feel _my_ _own_ emotions. The feelings she portrays in those songs aren't in line with the ones I experience neither do they match my values so that's why they make me so uncomfortable.
> 
> I don't cut off anything, neither do I repress it. I just _don't_ feel that way and if I did, I'd look for theraphy because I don't think that's a healthy way of experiencing things.


Ah I see. Interesting! I see it very differently but I don't know how to explain.. I guess, I wouldn't think it's healthy to live my life in such a state of vulnerable intensity, but its a different thing to express your fantasies or extremes within the musical context, no matter what they may be, and not unhealthy at all, as long as such things aren't ruining your real life / wrecking your relationship/ taking over your mind. Music/ art, writing etc.. is a great outlet and makes feelings become expansive and mirrors some of my inner states in a very dramatic way. That doesn't mean I live my life crying, groveling, moping, screaming etc; I'm usually quite calm  .. probably because I work out to let out my angst, and I listen to a lot of rage music/ intense music to process and indulge whatever emotions I have, and then they burn out, leaving me relaxed.

Pink isn't my kind of music though I enjoy those videos. I'm more into very melodic rage-music. this is my mind, everything from the video, to the way he moves, to the lyrics, to the arrangement (similar to how I arrange my songs).. the way the rage comes out.. it's all me, 100%. I'm convinced this dude is my exact tritype and variants. If not then he's my mirror one way or the other. Listening to this just makes me want to lay down and let the world TAKE ME. I fucking love it!! I can EAT it for breakfast, lunch and dinner!!


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## Karma Butterfly

Animal said:


> Ah I see. Interesting! I see it very differently but I don't know how to explain.. I guess, I wouldn't think it's healthy to live my life in such a state of vulnerable intensity, but its a different thing to express your fantasies or extremes within the musical context, no matter what they may be, and not unhealthy at all, as long as such things aren't ruining your real life / wrecking your relationship/ taking over your mind. Music/ art, writing etc.. is a great outlet and makes feelings become expansive and mirrors some of my inner states in a very dramatic way. That doesn't mean I live my life crying, groveling, moping, screaming etc; I'm usually quite calm  .. probably because I work out to let out my angst, and I listen to a lot of rage music/ intense music to process and indulge whatever emotions I have, and then they burn out, leaving me relaxed.


I think people should be free to express themselves particularly musicians of course, but music is such a powerful tool that influences and shapes people, and I wouldn't like to constantly portray those kind of attitudes and feelings for my audience.

Pink as a type 7, is enthusiastic about everything, even pain :laughing:



> Pink isn't my kind of music though I enjoy those videos. I'm more into very melodic rage-music. this is my mind, everything from the video, to the way he moves, to the lyrics, to the arrangement (similar to how I arrange my songs).. the way the rage comes out.. it's all me, 100%. I'm convinced this dude is my exact tritype and variants. If not then he's my mirror one way or the other. Listening to this just makes me want to lay down and let the world TAKE ME. I fucking love it!! I can EAT it for breakfast, lunch and dinner!!




How cool to find someone whos is "another you"! If I were to name anyone I think is another me on stage, it'd be BoA:


----------

