# What determines order in a function stack? (Assistance in finding one)



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

I have recently been studying and trying to assess my type more focused on the cognitive side instead of through the test which indicated me to be a Ti dom. No longer agreeing with the actual premise and not acting much like one, I am not sure. However, since I'm young, I've recently noticed a change in myself but am not sure which is the dominant function out of the the ones I can identify. Which of theses sounds like the more dominant function? ( I also included the cognitive functions I feel less strongly about to conserve pairs)

Fi:

Introverted feeling has probably been the one I noticed more readily. When given the choice between Fi and Fe preferences, I prefer to assess things on their own right to see if they make sense.. For instance a question of morals will often have me proudly assess the situation for the discussion at the moment and try to adequently judge what the problem is here. I can easily express in words what I love about some things or my opinions, but somethings that I like such as music, art or an idea is a little harder to express in writing as I feel that it is hard to capture them on paper. Anythings I write down on how I feel about something is subject to change sometimes depending on new info or doesn't feel right because it was written down and I don't just have the same passion I once had for it.

Te:

This is somewhere that while I don't necessarily struggle, I have trouble with. I prefer organization, if considered Te related but I'm just as happy with a mess sometimes due to something I'm doing right at that moment which is often. I don't have a problem containing structure, but I have more or less the problem of maintaining that order once it is setup. I often have things change as according to the moment like stacking of papers which naturally changes because I don't need that stack of info anymore so they may be put away in favor for another set of objects. However, while these things are of a concern in moving my environment, I am able to understand Te logic fairly well. I'm more apt to use Te instead of Ti in general because Te pertains to fact and while sometimes I struggle with this, I am able to understand overall concepts and finding ways to make them effective.

Se:

Extroverted Sensing, like all extroverted perceiving functions, is confusing to me because it seems like everyone has to do. Everyone says being in the moment is something Se people do but I don't understand how you would do anything else. Of course there are exceptions that I have been noticing such as noticing a certain smell a place had or the atmosphere of the room when I remember smaller frames of time. (as I suck at remembering probably on the account of poor sleep)These things could be smells, sights, tastes, and how things felt. They also say music is good for Se.I have never been to sports as for discrepancy for Se and this is something that they supposedly do but I'm not really sure. I have always hated sports but immanently when not forced to do something, go do whatever seems interesting like video games or something else that I really want to do. (This blog for instance)

Ni:

I understand Ni but am not sure if I use it. I usually try to think of everything and am more than happy to take a huge guess and develop my arguments based on things I heard. I'm not sure if that is Se or Ni attributed but it is generally how I publicly speak on things I don't necessarily remember, such as making theories about the philosophies or unseen principles from trends in the world. I don't think I'm particularity good at it or have it high on my stack because it is virtually impossible for me to make future plans and things and follow them. Like said above, I can't make long term plans even if I make one. I will probably be feeling something different for no real reason.

Please help me try and order things. If you need to know how I use the other 2 axis I can post about that too as I'd thought I'd keep them connected since you will at least one judging axis and a perceiving one.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I think these will help. If you want to post your answers, I will help type you  

Fe vs Fi test 

1.Are you more about people and social connections” (Fe)? Or personal values, authenticity and identity” (Fi)?
2.Do you believe that individual development is important, but social masks are necessary? Masks are ultimately tools. One can convey their true self through moving along with the current than against it (Fe)? Or everyone is entitled to be themselves, free of the nuisance of social convention. Conforming may be better for short term effects, but the ultimate goal is to see individual development (Fi)? 
3.Do you work best with the emotions of others (Fe)? Or work best with your own emotions (Fi)? 
4. Do you notice how you make others feel (Fe)? Or do you notice how others make you feel (Fi)?
5.Do you show your empathy through saying confirming language such as “Oh no,” and “Aw,” (Fe)? Or exposing your own experiences and struggles as a means of letting the other person know they’re not alone? (Fi) 
6.Do you believe in global morals, or/and conform to group morals (Fe)? Or do you believe that everyone is one-of-a-kind and has their own set of values, just as you do yourself (Fi)? 
7.Do you have empathy more on a global level, such as empathy for the human race (Fe)? Or empathy for a group of people you feel your values and experiences are related to (Fi)? 
8.Would you say “I will do what I think is right, because doing otherwise would do harm to others around me (Fe)? Or I will do what I think is right, because doing otherwise would be inauthentic to who I am as a moral person (Fi)? Examples: You are against adultery because “I would hurt the people I love” (Fe) or “It goes against my ethics” (Fi)? You are against illegal downloading because; “I will set a bad moral example” (Fe)? Or because “I am not a thief” (Fi)? 
9.Do you prefer to create an atmosphere of harmony and where everyone is “getting along” (Fe)? Or creating an atmosphere that coincides with your inner values; regardless of whether everyone is ‘feeling alright’ or not (Fi) 
10.In a spat, do you appeal to the whole group in an “everybody settle down” kind of way, apologize and compromise to keep everyone happy (Fe?)? Or stubbornly stick to your guns because someone violated an issue of importance to you, and probably latch onto one individual and either calm them or remove them from the situation in an attempt to neutralize the situation? (Fi)? 
11.At a park, are you more 
Extroverted Feeling (Fe)? You make sure everyone feels involved and has their needs met. Does everyone have a buddy? Nobody should be alone! Let’s go to the bathroom first, okay? How do we feel about hamburgers for lunch? Is that okay? Let’s meet over there, shall we? Does everyone know the plan, so no one is left behind? Let’s take a vote on which direction to go first! Fe will go on a ride it doesn’t like so a friend doesn’t have to do it alone.

Or Introverted Feeling (Fi)? You decide which direction to go based on what is important to you. I’m going on this ride. No, it’s okay, I can go by myself. I don’t need you to come along unless you want to. I’m serious. I’m not afraid to do it alone. I’m not feeling the burgers, either. You all go ahead. I’m going to dash over to that taco stand. Nope, not going on that ride. You can beg all you want, I won’t do it. I’m scared of heights. Not a chance, bud. Drop it.

Te vs Ti test 

1.Are you more about applying logic/organization to your external world (Te) or inner world (Ti)? 
2.Are you more about execution and effective organization (Te)? Or ideas and logical understanding (Ti)? 
3.Are you more about organization for efficiency, by the book, like to make things happen, and systematic (Te)? Or about analyzing everything, taking things apart to know how they work, and checking for accuracy or inconsistencies? (Ti) 
4.You have a gadget in front of you. Do you take the gadget and see what you can do with it? See what results you can achieve with it? Ask how can I make this happen? And what external impact can it cause? (Te) Or do you take apart the gadget to understand the parts or essence of it. Do you ask how does the gadget work? Is this accurate? Is this consistent? (Ti)? 
5.Do you want to USE information (Te) Or UNDERSTAND it (Ti)? 
6.Do you want to figure out how things can get done/results focused (Te)? Or understand how things are and fit together/ knowledge focused (Ti)? 
7.Do you like to come up with a decision and stick with it (Te)? Or always open for new insights and ways to perfect an idea (Ti)? 
8.Do you organize your bookshelf by tallest to shortest books (Te)? Or favorite to least favorite books (Ti)? 
9.Do you focus on organizing things into a unified whole/look at how things relate to one another (Te)? Or focused on separating things into their unique parts and classifying things (Ti)? Example, who are you in this conversation? Hubby (Te) or Wife (Ti) 
Hubby: I want to go to the blue hardware store.
Wife: I want to go to Lowes. 
10.At a park, Are you more 
(Te) busy organizing others and coming up with “battle plans.” Which direction do we go first? Give me the park map. Okay, where do we want to be by noon? When and where do we meet for lunch? Who is in charge of watching the kid? Which rides do what? When is the bus leaving? What do we have time for? How long are the lines? Okay, everyone who wants to go on these twelve rides, line up to the left! Everyone else to the right! We meet back here at 7pm! No stragglers! Does everyone have their phone on? Good! 

Or (Ti)? busy analyzing how the rides work and what makes the most sense. If I go this way, the path winds around past what I want to see, and by the time we’re to meet up, I’ll have been all the way around the park. I won’t have to walk back, or rush from one side of the park to the other. Wait, why are they all walking in the opposite direction? Don’t they know this is the logical way to do it? If you go that way, you’ll engage in needless walking and won’t be able to get through the line in front of the House of Mirrors

Se vs Si test 

1. Do you listen to the same music over and over again because "It's the best music out there?" (Se) or because "I just always have-habit? (Si)? 
2.Do you notice all the details of the present moment? Do you notice all of the tiny details in a painting? (Se)? Or do you notice the present details but compare them to past experiences? (Si) 
3.Do you tend to want immediate gratification and new hands on adventures/experiences (Se)? Or lean more towards saying “I get the same amount of joy each time I do my favorite hobby” (Si)?
4. Are you naturally spontaneous and live completely in the here and now (Se)? Or do you crave stability, reliability, preservation of simple joys in their life, and maintaining a connection to times that made you happy in the past (Si)? 
5.How do you handle a new situation? Do your senses shift through data and identifies what is the most relevant and most critical in the current situation. Do you seize opportunities as they present themselves? Do you troubleshoot and seek a tactical advantage? (Se) Or do your senses relate the present situation to past experience? Do you ask “how did I handle something like this last time”? Do you evaluate similarities and differences? Do you apply proven techniques to the challenges of the current circumstances? (Si)
6. Do you live for unexpected opportunities (Se)? Or like to know what you’re getting into before you sign up for something (Si)?
7. Do you tend to be criticized for not having a plan (Se)? Or being too stuck in your ways with a plan set in stone (plan isn’t necessarily set in stone for lower Si users- they just want some sense of structure) (Si)? 
8.Do you look for external sensory experiences such as roller coasters, scary movies, race car driving? (Se) Or internal sensory experiences such knowing how your body feels during Yoga or immediately knowing when you are full (Si)? 
9.Do dress with a flair of boldness; have a keen eye for aesthetics, and have an enjoyment for the finer things in life (Se)? Or is your style more traditional and conservative? (Mainly dominant Si users) 
10.After a long day at work do you put on a new movie (Se) or a movie you’ve already seen (simply for the familiarity and nostalgia) (Si)? 
11.While in a forest do you notice the rich detail in the whole forest - the trees, their color and texture, their sounds, their smells, the pattern of light and dark... (Se)? Or note that this forest has always been here and recalls being in a forest from childhood, smelling that smell and the fun of playing hide and seek behind the trees... (Si)? 
12.You are at a park. Are you more 
(Se)? You are busy noticing all the details of the park and the people in it. Sights. Sounds. Colors. Oh, cool. That ride flips upside down! I’m going to try that. Do you smell those hotdogs? Aren’t they great? I think we ought to go bungee jumping… it’s only $50 for a group of $12! Which way is the Tower of Terror? I’m going to ride down it and watch all you sissies wet your pants when it drops 50 feet in 12 seconds!

Or (Si)? relates everything around them to past experience. Last time I was here, I threw up on that ride; I’m not going on it again. Oh, hey, that’s the bench I sat on when so-and-so kissed me! Oh, good, the line is shorter this year. Why does this slushy taste different? I think they put less cherry cola in it than before! I feel ripped off. OR… I’ve never been to a theme park before, but that Ferris wheel reminds me of that scene in The Notebook, when Noah won’t take no for an answer, until Allie agrees to go on a date with him…

Ne vs Ni test 

1.While in a forest do you think of the fractal patterns, the wide range of possibilities in the forest, how this forest is part of the ecosystem and is affected by pollution from the city... (Ne) or Recognize that the forest is deeply symbolic of all of life in its interconnectedness and constant recycling and growth and foresees that this forest will soon be torn down for a housing development... (Ni)? 
2.Do you have an explosion of ideas, symbols, and possibilities (Ne)? Or do you find one idea and build on it over time (Ni) 
3.Are you more about possibilities and randomness (Ne)? Or insights and purpose (Ni)? 
4.Is your speech scatterbrained/about multiple topics (Ne) Or more streamlined/ talk about one thing at a time (Ni)? 
5.Do you want to go out and try all of your ideas (Ne)? Or be selective with your ideas (Ni)? 
6.Is your thought process non-linear (Ne) or linear (Ni)? 
7.Do you brainstorm out loud (Ne) or keep ideas to yourself (Ni) 
8.Do you focus on “what if's” or “what could be”? (Ne) Or having an “aha moment” (Ni)? 
9.Do you find broad shallow symbols and patterns (Ne) or deep symbols, and patterns (Ni)? 
10.You are at a park. Are you more 
(Ne) sees the possibilities of the park. Look at those two people. You can tell they’re not “together” anymore, but just hanging out for the kid’s sake. See their body language? How many rides are in this park? Do you think anyone ever died here? I think they should put a new ride in this space. Call it the Haunted House of Horrors, and have Dead Presidents in it. You know, they could put up an entire haunted SECTION of the park. That would be awesome. Who do I call to pitch that idea? Stay away from the guy in the red hat. He gives me vibes. Ooh, you know, I could write a story about a murder in a theme park! He could die because the Tilt a Whirl malfunctioned. No, no, because the Tower of Terror ride didn’t stop, it crashed the elevator to the bottom floor! His sister did it. No, his uncle! No, the theme park guy, because he’s freakin’ insane.

Or (Ni)? You know what will happen before it happens. I’m going to take a step back, because that kid is going to spill his slushy all over – yup, there it goes. I know which ride I want to go on. I’ve thought about it all week. I’m going to have an awesome time on that ride. I’m going there first. Wait, there are other rides? I didn’t even notice! I was busy fixating on getting to the head of the line! Marsha better not go on that thing, she’ll hurl—yep, there she goes.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I think these will help. If you want to post your answers, I will help type you
> 
> Fe vs Fi test
> 
> ...


I suppose if your an Si this is your area or expertise :happy:

Fe v Fi

1. Fi I am more geared towards my identity so that I can understand what I'm doing with the world. 
2. Fi I just feel that way
3. Not sure: It takes alot for me too focus on others emotions and act accordingly. Its often that I hurt my friends feelings and that is only as far as they let on. It's also hard to understand my own sometimes but I can get it done usually.
4. Fi Its easier for me to do that than Fe.
5. Fi 
6. Fi
7. Fi
8. Fi: One of my values is to not really hurt anyone.
9. Fe: I don't want to cause an environment where anyone is going to be genuinely uncomfortable.
10. Fi
11 Fi

Te v. Ti

1.Te
2.Te
3.Te: I could only agree with the first two for Te, but non for Ti.
4 Unsure: I can't decide, I would really just want to know what its uses are.
5.Te
6.Te
7.Neither
8.Te: Most likely to be read to most unlikely to read.
9.Te
10.No preference

Se v. Si

1.Se
2.Neither: I miss small details and don't really compare everything to old experiences
3.Se: I agree with Se but I do agree with Si
4. Both
5.Se and some times Si: When I'm solving things like math or difficult things. Its mostly Se though.
6.Si
7.Se
8.Si
9.Se
10.Se and Si: There are alot of series that I rewatch and enjoy and find it hard to seek out other forms of entertainment.
11.Se: also with the forest being specific, Si.
12.Se

Ne v. Ni

1.Ni
2.Ni
3.Ni
4. Not sure: when talking about a subject and needed to explain my train of thought, I'll often take it section b section but I may do Ne and go off topic to explain another concept in my thoughts or I may go straight through, only mentioning other topics and sources at minimal only to show how they have effected my reasoning. I actually struggle with controlling this, because too many questions before I can finish and I am likely to divert to left field and need to re position myself.
5.Not sure: I'd like to see if my ideas are true if that is what the Ne option is getting at. I am also more favorable to just having selective ideas as I feel things rather strongly and it would take something being overlooked for me to want to change it. For example, last weak after having s debate where I felt extremely strong of a characters position, I reread the book in my spare time and found many missed passages where another aspect of the character was sown, changing my view of his actions and ethics.
6.Ni-Not sure what this means, my thoughts on a model of sorts would probable be linear in the fact that they draw into each other and diverge based on the possibility of missed information depending on how well I know the subjects listed. 
7.Not sure; most likely Ne because while I usually do all of my reasoning out loud with no intention of sharing before my understanding is developed, I want to share the info and view i have on that topic as it pertains to situations. For example, I am more apt talk out loud during my walks concerning an idea and once I feel that idea is sure, I ma use it in conversation but otherwise I don't really like giving a position on anything i haven't had time to consider as its going to take me a minute and i often have conversations with someone or been in my classes and have had to give incomplete ideas on the subject leaving room for logical errors in thoughts and an obvious overlook for the many details that compile into this thought that makes reasoning.
8.Neither: With the Ne option, I often have a hard time thinking of what could be and even if the suggestion is made, I need to really tink it through and may talk myself out of it and won't try to realise the possibility. When i was younger and to this day, people often put me in careers related to high office management and public speaking. I find it hard to envision living that way and can't really see it or the things it involves. This problem usually stems from not being sure what these possibilities are, especially if it is up to me to think of these things with no definite structure as possibilities snowball out of control and the reasoning becomes overwhelming until I clear the board. While I'm also aware that an aha moment happens for Ni doms as while they are solving a problem, a similar essence of something unrelated allows them to suddenly make a great breakthrough in their thoughts and act as their missing piece of the puzzle. If you agree with that definition than I have very few of those.
9.Ni I guess, mostly because the terms shallow and deep are subjective. I only chose Ni in hopes you are referring to bigger symbols and things involved with them.
10.Ne:These options are something I'm capable of doing and may very well try to do, but not very well. This seems more like hyperactive thoughts more than anything where I can identify more with seeing something that looked off and trying to explain why it looks off. Much like the example about the man and the kids is something I may try to do but I'm more likely to do it as a joke because I'm not very good at reading the possibilities like that if that makes any sense. Also, I have no ability to read the future, but I can sort of see if someones shoe is untied they might fall if I am paying that much attention to even notice such a detail.

I hope these answers prove helpful to you. If there are any clarifications you need, send them I guess.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

*Who are you in these conversations? Ni or Ne?*

Ni is my INFJ friend saying, “So and so’s problem is THIS and she’s pissed.” 

Ne is me saying, “I’m getting indistinct impressions and I think she’s mad at me, so I’m going to dig around more to see if I can get her to say what’s wrong.” 

Do you want to find the "absolute truth" (Ni)? or think several possibilities have the potential to be the truth (Ne)? 

"Ni and Ne may reach the same conclusion but Ne will be less certain in articulating that conclusion as an indisputable fact because since Ne is focused on external possibilities and doesn’t like to narrow things down like Ni does, Ne anticipates that with additional information their assumption may change." 

"Ne is expansive, pulling not only from the immediate environment but a fast storehouse of similar knowledge (Si), so it is good at reading connections between other people, but it is not good at magically coming up with an answer after sleeping on something, which is something Ni is known for. (Ni- ”Oh, the answer just came to me… I know what to do…”) Ne looks outward, eager for information and inspiration, with a desire to discuss, and Ni looks inward, looking at something from every angle before deciding if it fits in its inner framework. " 

"Ni is an INTJ I know articulating something as an absolute; and an (Ne) ENFP I know arguing with him that he doesn’t know that for sure."

*Now, do you relate to Fe or Fi?*

Fe- wants to end slavery because they absorb the slaves emotions of pain and suffering. It's not based on ethics. It's based on feeling others emotions. 

Fi- wants to end slavery because slavery goes against their values. Slavery is simply "wrong." They use a moral code. 

Fe- is against adultery because it will hurt my loved ones. They feel the pain their going to cause to others. 

Fi- is against adultery because it goes against their moral code. Their heart says "This is wrong." 

Both Fi and Fe are very empathetic, but approach empathy in two different ways. They both feel other's suffering but their tactics are different. Fi user's put themselves in those person's shoes. When empathizing a Fi user will relate by speaking of their own similar struggle. Fe users absorb the person's raw emotions. When empathizing the Fe user will say "Oh no," and "Aww." 

Fe one big motivation= feeling/absorbing other's emotions
Fi one big motivation= following their own ethics


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> *Who are you in these conversations? Ni or Ne?*
> 
> Ni is my INFJ friend saying, “So and so’s problem is THIS and she’s pissed.”
> 
> ...


Want to find the absolute truth behind something. (Ni) Once I have that knowledge I want to act upon it. Other suggestions just make me more confused and blurr my thoughts.

Fi, I like following my own ethics and will do things mostly as I see fit by what I value and ethics I have.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Ok. I'm pretty sure you are a Ni and Fi user now. That leaves:

INTJ: Ni, Te, Fi, Se
ISFP: Fi, Se, Ni, Te
and maybe just maybe ISTJ: Si, Te, Fi, Ne. 

These are what the dominant functions look like in real life. Which one/s resonate the most for you? Which ones make you think no that's not me?

Dominant Ti (IXTP): I don’t need to use my emotions to fix this problem, thanks. I know how this machine works. Let me take it apart and put it back together for you. That doesn’t seem logical. The facts of the situation are unimportant; we can solve this, though it might seem impossible. There is a way around every problem. I can give you a two word answer to your question, and those two words will solve everything. The fewer words used, the better. Most explanations are too long-winded and technical, and could easily be simplified. Let me hear the idea or new data; I’m going to analyze and criticize it, and if it doesn’t work, I’m going to throw it out. Come on, you know my impartiality is sexy. Have you ever seen me overreact to anything? No!

Dominant Fi (IXFP): I know that this is good, and that is bad. I know that you’re not who you say you are. I don’t need to focus on that particular idea, because it is less important than this other idea or belief. I want to focus on what is important, and I can see the measure of importance of everything in my life: people, causes, thoughts, actions, and feelings. Does this belief conflict with mine? Do I think this action is wrong? If so, I won’t do it. I know what I believe and what is worth believing in. Please, let me have some time to mull over this life-altering decision. I don’t want to make the wrong choice. I feel strong and confident in who I am, and what I believe. I have total faith in you. I know what you need, and will stand up for you when you need me to. I am good at protecting others and showing patience in mediating between them.

Dominant Ni (INXJ: No, I haven’t learned this before. I just know how to do it, that’s all. Let me guess what that means… am I right? Yes! I knew it! You can’t ask me to stop thinking about the future; I think about it all the time! That person is going to do that, and this will happen as a result. I am not wrong. You wait and see. (Told you!) I don’t like this, it didn’t happen the way I anticipated it would! No, I don’t want to change my plan at the last minute! How can I fix this? Where did I go wrong? I have a creative way to explain this process to you! Interpreting symbolism comes easily to me. Visualizing my goals, and my future, makes me happy and energizes me! I can see where I want to be, and where I am, and come up with each step necessary to reach my dreams. 

Dominant Si (ISXJ: I know how this works, how it was last week, and how I want it to be in the future. If knitting in that way helped the other person to create that scarf, I feel sure that I can do the same thing by learning the same stitch. I feel happiest when I hold tight to the things that are truly important and lasting in life, such as family, friends, and often, my faith. I find that interesting, but it doesn’t match my memories of what happened. Can you give me more details, so I can decide whether or not to accept it? I know if something or someone is different from how they used to be, and can tell you exactly what has altered. I highly value my past experiences, and find it hard to forget or move past things. I really love participating in local events, family traditions, and cultural things, because it makes me feel like I am part of a living past. I enjoy routine and like things to be predictable.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ok. I'm pretty sure you are a Ni and Fi user now. That leaves:
> 
> INTJ: Ni, Te, Fi, Se
> ISFP: Fi, Se, Ni, Te
> ...


Agree with: IXFP
Disagree with ISXJ, INXJ,

Not sure about the IXTP as I'm not sure if I could withdraw my emotions or I might not have any already so I don't think so. Also, I'm just not comfortable with mostly all of the IXTP statement above.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ok. I'm pretty sure you are a Ni and Fi user now. That leaves:
> 
> INTJ: Ni, Te, Fi, Se
> ISFP: Fi, Se, Ni, Te
> ...


Also, does this mean I'm an introvert by Jungian standards.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

"Agree with: IXFP
Disagree with ISXJ, INXJ,

Not sure about the IXTP as I'm not sure if I could withdraw my emotions or I might not have any already so I don't think so. Also, I'm just not comfortable with mostly all of the IXTP statement above."

Ok. So It looks like that leaves E/ISFP, E/INFP, and slight possibility of E/INFJ

ENFJs generally have the following traits: 
• Genuinely and warmly interested in people 
• Value people's feelings 
• Value structure and organization 
• Value harmony, and good at creating it 
• Exceptionally good people skills 
• Dislike impersonal logic and analysis 
• Strong organizational capabilities 
• Loyal and honest 
• Creative and imaginative 
• Enjoy variety and new challenges 
• Get personal satisfaction from helping others 
• Extremely sensitive to criticism and discord 
• Need approval from others to feel good about themselves

ESFPs generally have the following traits: 
• Live in the present moment 
• Are stimulated and excited by new experiences 
• Practical and realistic 
• Warmly interested in people 
• Know how to have a good time, and how to make things fun for others 
• Independent and resourceful 
• Spontaneous - seldom plan ahead 
• Hate structure and routine 
• Dislike theory and long written explanations 
• Feel special bond with children and animals 
• Strongly developed aesthetic appreciation for things 
• Great people skills 

ENFPs generally have the following traits: 
• Project-oriented 
• Bright and capable 
• Warmly, genuinely interested in people; great people skills 
• Extremely intuitive and perceptive about people 
• Able to relate to people on their own level 
• Service-oriented; likely to put the needs of others above their own 
• Future-oriented 
• Dislike performing routine tasks 
• Need approval and appreciation from others 
• Cooperative and friendly 
• Creative and energetic 
• Well-developed verbal and written communication skills 
• Natural leaders, but do not like to control people 
• Resist being controlled by others 
• Can work logically and rationally - use their intuition to understand the goal and work backwards towards it 
• Usually able to grasp difficult concepts and theories 

INFJs generally have the following traits: 
• Intuitively understand people and situations 
• Idealistic 
• Highly principled 
• Complex and deep 
• Natural leaders 
• Sensitive and compassionate towards people 
• Service-oriented 
• Future-oriented 
• Value deep, authentic relationships 
• Reserved about expressing their true selves 
• Dislike dealing with details unless they enhance or promote their vision 
• Constantly seeking meaning and purpose in everything 
• Creative and visionary 
• Intense and tightly-wound 
• Can work logically and rationally - use their intuition to understand the goal and work backwards towards it 

INFPs generally have the following traits: 
• Strong value systems 
• Warmly interested in people 
• Service-oriented, usually putting the needs of others above their own 
• Loyal and devoted to people and causes 
• Future-oriented 
• Growth-oriented; always want to be growing in a positive direction 
• Creative and inspirational 
• Flexible and laid-back, unless a ruling principle is violated 
• Sensitive and complex 
• Dislike dealing with details and routine work 
• Original and individualistic - "out of the mainstream" 
• Excellent written communication skills 
• Prefer to work alone, and may have problems working on teams 
• Value deep and authentic relationships 
• Want to be seen and appreciated for who they are 

ISFPs generally have the following traits: 
• Keen awareness of their environment 
• Live in the present moment 
• Enjoy a slower pace - they like to take time to savor the present moment 
• Dislike dealing with theory or abstract thought, unless they see a practical application 
• Faithful and loyal to people and ideas which are important to them 
• Individualistic, having no desire to lead or follow 
• Take things seriously, although they frequently appear not to 
• Special bond with children and animals 
• Quiet and reserved, except with people they know extremely well 
• Trusting, sensitive, and kind 
• Service-oriented; they're driven to help others 
• Extremely well-developed appreciation for aesthetic beauty 
• Likely to be original and unconventional 
• Learn best with hands-on training 
• Hate being confined to strict schedules and regimens 
• Need space and freedom to do things their own way 
• Dislike mundane, routine tasks, but will perform them if necessary 

What types resonate with you and what types don't?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

ISFP: I really love applicable theories especially when they tie into philosophy and because of this I am constantly quoted as original and unconventional by those I know. I am extremely different between those I don't know well vs. those I do and I feel sad when I don't see those people for that reason.Hate Schedules in general and given the opportunity, I defiantly want space to do my own thing. I also agree the the serious comment as that also pertains to me, especially when it comes to helping deserving people as i can sometimes be service oriented. The only problem with this is that my life lacks much experience as far as sensory detail as it can get repetitive due to locked circumstances I can't escape from.
ENFP:I often pick up small side projects in order to keep busy for fun but there often overly addictive and all time consuming causing the rejection of all others.I genuinely like helping people but I know that I mostly due it for pure acknowledgement sake and I must be in a very good mood to go out of the way. I have excellent verbal skills compared to paper skills.I can also understand difficult new theories. I have decent people skills at best. 
ENFJ:I am not good at creating harmony, and my attempts to do so often comes too late. To a certain degree impersonal analysis must be implied as every situation is subjective even to those who experience it, so while I love the idea, I still use it. I do like new challenges though.

INFJ
INFP
ESFP

(From highest to lowest)


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

So would you say you relate better to P types over J types?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> So would you say you relate better to P types over J types?


Yes I do I guess.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Well, it looks like your preferred functions are Fi, Se, Ni, Te. Which leaves either ISFP=Fi, Se, Ni, Te. Or INTJ= Ni, Te, Fi, Se. But you seem to relate better to the P types so I think you are an ISFP= Fi, Se, Ni, Te  What do you think?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

An ISFP huh, that sounds accurate. I was aware of the Fi-Ni thing but I din't think it was possible my weak Ni uses. I doubt I'm an INTJ for that reason so ISFP it is! You are very good at what you do.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Well, it looks like your preferred functions are Fi, Se, Ni, Te. Which leaves either ISFP=Fi, Se, Ni, Te. Or INTJ= Ni, Te, Fi, Se. But you seem to relate better to the P types so I think you are an ISFP= Fi, Se, Ni, Te  What do you think?


Well I guess its difficult.I know type doesn't determine everything and given proper guidance by others I can be affected in different ways. I also somewhat relate to ISFP's like Emerson and Thoreau who describe a need for individualism. But I do have concerns. 

1. I'm only 16. I guess it would make sense for Fi to be my dominant and I thought this to be true from the start. However, I don't know how to develop Extroverted Sensing. It's still weird for me and I'm not sure I know what to expect or how to train it up.
2. This would also explain how lost I sort of feel and I guess I'll have to talk to someone else about Te for ISFPs, because in this stage of my life I really need my inferior functions...
3. Does this mean that I'm subject to be apart of an Fi-Ni loop where Fi has my Ni try to convince myself of things based on how I feel? Someone has already said that this is what I was experiencing but they didn't seem trustworthy.
4. What Ennegram types are common for ISFPs and how might I find mine?
5. Lastly, do I have to be artsy? I'm not doing anything artsy at the moment and have 0 developed talents for any fine arts. I use to be a musician but that was very annoying due to inconvenient times and hard practices.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

1. I'm only 16. I guess it would make sense for Fi to be my dominant and I thought this to be true from the start. However, I don't know how to develop Extroverted Sensing. It's still weird for me and I'm not sure I know what to expect or how to train it up.

Extraverted sensing is all about living in the here and now. It's about living fully in the moment. It's about risk taking and thriving on new and exciting experiences/adrenaline rush. So for example, you could use this function by playing sports, or taking time each day to focus on the present moment. 

2. This would also explain how lost I sort of feel and I guess I'll have to talk to someone else about Te for ISFPs, because in this stage of my life I really need my inferior functions...

Well, how I use my Te (which is my second function): 
I can tell you the exact time I'll arrive somewhere, I love making goals and To- do lists, my room is spotless, I like deadlines, I can organize my time very well to do everything I want to do, when getting things done I put aside my emotions. I like to make things happen. I get a high from accomplishing goals. I wanted to go to college so I made it happen. I like things to run smoothly and efficiently. I hate making the same mistake twice. When someone says they're going to talk about three topics but I notice when they only talk about two topics. I like making decisions based on what's rational. When I as a kid I was the leader in our friends group. Telling the rules, making sure people play fair, making sure the game is running smoothly. 

So you could practice using Te by taking on leadership roles, making to-do-lists, and organizing your external world, such as cleaning your bedroom everyday. 

3. Does this mean that I'm subject to be apart of an Fi-Ni loop where Fi has my Ni try to convince myself of things based on how I feel? Someone has already said that this is what I was experiencing but they didn't seem trustworthy.

Yes, you are subject to the Fi-Ni loop. But remember MBTI is just a theory and not every ISFP is exactly the same. 

Fi-Ni loop:For ISFPs, Se is there to make sure they engage with the external world in a way that allows their inner world to be expressed outwardly (since they tend to focus too much attention on their own experiences). ISFPs who do not want to involve themselves with the external world (because it infringes upon their inner boundaries) will instead utilize Ni to come up with strong intuitive/gut reasons for why the external world is not worthy of their involvement or imagine that any action would lead to negative consequences, and so they can continue to go with what feels most inwardly comfortable. This ultimately fails because, without being active in the external world, they will not be able to find any proper direction and will feel as though they cannot do anything meaningful or help others effectively, which is what they are actually seeking.

My life as a ISFP - Funky MBTI in Fiction

4. What Ennegram types are common for ISFPs and how might I find mine?

4, 6, and 9, seem to be the most common enneagram types for ISFP's. 

Types characterized by introverts (4, 5, 6, 9) and extraverts (2, 7, 8 )
•Intuitives (3, 4, 5) and sensors (6)
•Thinkers (5, 8 ) and feelers (2, 4, 9)
•Perceivers (3, 6, 7, 9) and judgers (1, 8 )

You can find your enneagram type by reading the enneagram info I'll post next on this thread or/and taking enneagram tests. 

This site gives you a list of numerous free online enneagram tests: 

Personality Types: Free Enneagram Tests - Enneagram and Myers Briggs

Personally, my favorite is the "classical" test on: https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test.php

5. Lastly, do I have to be artsy? I'm not doing anything artsy at the moment and have 0 developed talents for any fine arts. I use to be a musician but that was very annoying due to inconvenient times and hard practices. 

No, you do not have to be artsy.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Enneagram: 
Each number has its own basic fear, basic desire, experienced a negative childhood message, under stress each type acts like another number, and when in a healthy growth state each type acts like another number. 

Basic fear:
type 1- of being bad, imbalanced, defective, corrupt
type 2- Of being unloved
type 3- of being worthless
type 4- of having no identity or significance
type 5- of being helpless, incompetent, or incapable
type 6-of being without support or guidance
type 7- of being trapped in pain and deprivation
type 8- of being harmed, controlled, and violated
type 9- of loss, separation, and fragmentation

Basic desire:
type 1- to be good, to have integrity
type 2-to feel love
type 3-to feel valuable
type 4- to be themselves
type 5- to be capable and competent
type 6- to have guidance and support
type 7- to be satisfied and content
type 8- to protect themselves
type 9- peace of mind and wholeness

unconscious negative childhood message: 
type 1- It's not okay to make mistakes
type 2- It's not okay to have your own needs
type 3-It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity
type 4- It's not okay to be too functional or too happy
type 5- It's not okay to be comfortable in the world
type 6- It's not okay to trust yourself 
type 7- It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything
type 8- It's not okay to be vulnerable or trust anyone
type 9- It's not okay to assert yourself 

Under stress each type acts like another number:
type 1 acts like: moody and irrational like 4
type 2 acts like: aggressive and dominating like 8
type 3 acts like: disengaged and apathetic like 9
type 4 acts like: overindulged and clinging like 2
type 5 acts like: hyperactive and scattered like 7
type 6 acts like: competitive and arrogant like 3
type 7 acts like: perfectionistic and critical like 1
type 8 acts like: secretive and fearful like 5
type 9 acts like: anxious and worried like 6

When in a healthy growth state each type acts like another number: 
type 1 acts like: 7
type 2 acts like: 4
type 3 acts like: 6
type 4 acts like: 1
type 5 acts like: 8
type 6 acts like: 9
type 7 acts like: 5
type 8 acts like: 2
type 9 acts like: 3

Info came from enneagram workshop I took


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Enneagram:
> Each number has its own basic fear, basic desire, experienced a negative childhood message, under stress each type acts like another number, and when in a healthy growth state each type acts like another number.
> 
> Basic fear:
> ...


8W9 or 9w1 for me, thought the 8w9 might be a better fit.

That blog was my life and entire reason I thought I wasn't an ISFP. Thanks for that.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Oh really? which blog?  "My life as a ISFP"? 

Here is also a link for ISFP characters and the way they use their functions is described:

#c: isfp - Funky MBTI in Fiction


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Oh really? which blog?  "My life as a ISFP"?
> 
> Here is also a link for ISFP characters and the way they use their functions is described:
> 
> #c: isfp - Funky MBTI in Fiction


Well thank you for all your help. You are amazing at what you do and I wish I could have your skills. See you around then!


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Ok great! If you have any more questions just let me know


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ok great! If you have any more questions just let me know


Would being an ISFP, in theory, be a problem if I was a 7w6 social wing?


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

No the enneagram is a different system even though there are some correlations between the two. 

Types characterized by introverts (4, 5, 6, 9) and extraverts (2, 7, 8 )
•Intuitives (3, 4, 5) and sensors (6)
•Thinkers (5, 8 ) and feelers (2, 4, 9)
•Perceivers (3, 6, 7, 9) and judgers (1, 8) 

Ne and Se correlates to 7
6 can correlate to any mbti type/function 

Myers-Briggs / MBTI & Enneagram Correlations

Personality Types: Enneagram and Myers Briggs Type Correlations - Enneagram and Myers Briggs

MBTI-Enneagram correlations

Enneagram, Myers-Briggs/MBTI, & the Inferior Function: Healthy Type Correlations


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> No the enneagram is a different system even though there are some correlations between the two.
> 
> Types characterized by introverts (4, 5, 6, 9) and extraverts (2, 7, 8 )
> •Intuitives (3, 4, 5) and sensors (6)
> ...


Are the test for the ennegram any more accurate than the test for the MBTI? I asked this question as while the two systems seem connected, I don't often do 7 behaviors besides just being impulsive generally. Should I be looking by multiple tests or just seeing what feels right as I do have my own problems that I'm not sure if it is related or unrelated.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I personally think the enneagram tests are a bit more accurate than the mbti tests. But again they're just starting points. Then you probably are not a 7. You should take multiple enneagram tests and see which three types you consistently score the highest in. You also need to figure out what your basic fear is, basic desire, what negative childhood message you received, how you act when stressed, and how you act when in a growth state.

This site lists numerous free online enneagram tests:

Personality Types: Free Enneagram Tests - Enneagram and Myers Briggs

Basic fear:
type 1- of being bad, imbalanced, defective, corrupt
type 2- Of being unloved
type 3- of being worthless
type 4- of having no identity or significance
type 5- of being helpless, incompetent, or incapable
type 6-of being without support or guidance
type 7- of being trapped in pain and deprivation
type 8- of being harmed, controlled, and violated
type 9- of loss, separation, and fragmentation

Basic desire:
type 1- to be good, to have integrity
type 2-to feel love
type 3-to feel valuable
type 4- to be themselves
type 5- to be capable and competent
type 6- to have guidance and support
type 7- to be satisfied and content
type 8- to protect themselves
type 9- peace of mind and wholeness

unconscious negative childhood message: 
type 1- It's not okay to make mistakes
type 2- It's not okay to have your own needs
type 3-It's not okay to have your own feelings and identity
type 4- It's not okay to be too functional or too happy
type 5- It's not okay to be comfortable in the world
type 6- It's not okay to trust yourself 
type 7- It's not okay to depend on anyone for anything
type 8- It's not okay to be vulnerable or trust anyone
type 9- It's not okay to assert yourself 

Under stress each type acts like another number:
type 1 acts like: moody and irrational like 4
type 2 acts like: aggressive and dominating like 8
type 3 acts like: disengaged and apathetic like 9
type 4 acts like: overindulged and clinging like 2
type 5 acts like: hyperactive and scattered like 7
type 6 acts like: competitive and arrogant like 3
type 7 acts like: perfectionistic and critical like 1
type 8 acts like: secretive and fearful like 5
type 9 acts like: anxious and worried like 6

When in a healthy growth state each type acts like another number: 
type 1 acts like: 7
type 2 acts like: 4
type 3 acts like: 6
type 4 acts like: 1
type 5 acts like: 8
type 6 acts like: 9
type 7 acts like: 5
type 8 acts like: 2
type 9 acts like: 3


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

I know I haven't gotten back to you after awhile, but I have a question about Se and Ne. Practicing Se or things that are Se aren't sort of my fortay. I tried sports and creating authentic surroundings and being in the moment. It wasn't always easy but it's also very forced and unusual feeling.

Also, my apparent Ni/Fi situation works weirdly and it may be inappropriate to say that it may not work after only 2 weeks, but experiences are confusing and don't really help improve my grim future feeling. My 7w6 is pretty confirmed and works really as just a distraction for things I'm considering right now but I'd agree it does make me better. Some say I'm a bit of a nihilist, and some times I agree, but do you think its possible that I am an INFP with an Fi/Si loop where looking at possibilities objectively and gaining objective information may help? 

Also, by evaluating feedback systems to see what my strengths were in, I did miss the fact that I am a decent writer, if just a little unfocused, and I'm also a speaker in which I thought was more Se I guess. The two types are just very similar and I'm just wondering if I have a Fi/Si problem so I can make sense of these things.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@BronzeHareV 

Ok. So you are a 7. Who are you at a theme park? 

Say a group of people all go to a theme park together.

Extroverted Sensing (Se) is busy noticing all the details of the park and the people in it. Sights. Sounds. Colors. Oh, cool. That ride flips upside down! I’m going to try that. Do you smell those hotdogs? Aren’t they great? I think we ought to go bungee jumping… it’s only $50 for a group of $12! Which way is the Tower of Terror? I’m going to ride down it and watch all you sissies wet your pants when it drops 50 feet in 12 seconds!

Extroverted Intuition (Ne) sees the possibilities of the park. Look at those two people. You can tell they’re not “together” anymore, but just hanging out for the kid’s sake. See their body language? How many rides are in this park? Do you think anyone ever died here? I think they should put a new ride in this space. Call it the Haunted House of Horrors, and have Dead Presidents in it. You know, they could put up an entire haunted SECTION of the park. That would be awesome. Who do I call to pitch that idea? Stay away from the guy in the red hat. He gives me vibes. Ooh, you know, I could write a story about a murder in a theme park! He could die because the Tilt a Whirl malfunctioned. No, no, because the Tower of Terror ride didn’t stop, it crashed the elevator to the bottom floor! His sister did it. No, his uncle! No, the theme park guy, because he’s freakin’ insane.

Extroverted Thinking (Te) is busy organizing others and coming up with “battle plans.” Which direction do we go first? Give me the park map. Okay, where do we want to be by noon? When and where do we meet for lunch? Who is in charge of watching the kid? Which rides do what? When is the bus leaving? What do we have time for? How long are the lines? Okay, everyone who wants to go on these twelve rides, line up to the left! Everyone else to the right! We meet back here at 7pm! No stragglers! Does everyone have their phone on? Good!

Extroverted Feeling (Fe) makes sure everyone feels involved and has their needs met. Does everyone have a buddy? Nobody should be alone! Let’s go to the bathroom first, okay? How do we feel about hamburgers for lunch? Is that okay? Let’s meet over there, shall we? Does everyone know the plan, so no one is left behind? Let’s take a vote on which direction to go first! Fe will go on a ride it doesn’t like so a friend doesn’t have to do it alone.

Introverted Sensing (Si) relates everything around them to past experience. Last time I was here, I threw up on that ride; I’m not going on it again. Oh, hey, that’s the bench I sat on when so-and-so kissed me! Oh, good, the line is shorter this year. Why does this slushie taste different? I think they put less cherry cola in it than before! I feel ripped off. OR… I’ve never been to a theme park before, but that Ferris wheel reminds me of that scene in The Notebook, when Noah won’t take no for an answer, until Allie agrees to go on a date with him…

Introverted Intuition (Ni) knows what will happen before it happens. I’m going to take a step back, because that kid is going to spill his slushie all over – yup, there it goes. I know which ride I want to go on. I’ve thought about it all week. I’m going to have an awesome time on that ride. I’m going there first. Wait, there are other rides? I didn’t even notice! I was busy fixating on getting to the head of the line! Ha, Marsha better not go on that thing, she’ll hurl—yep, there she goes.

Introverted Thinking (Ti) is busy analyzing how the rides work and what makes the most sense. If I go this way, the path winds around past what I want to see, and by the time we’re to meet up, I’ll have been all the way around the park. I won’t have to walk back, or rush from one side of the park to the other. Wait, why are they all walking in the opposite direction? Don’t they know this is the logical way to do it? If you go that way, you’ll engage in needless walking and won’t be able to get through the line in front of the House of Mirrors.

Introverted Feeling (Fi) decides which direction to go based on what is important to them. I’m going on this ride. No, it’s okay, I can go by myself. I don’t need you to come along unless you want to. I’m serious. I’m not afraid to do it alone. I’m not feeling the burgers, either. You all go ahead. I’m going to dash over to that taco stand. Nope, not going on that ride. You can beg all you want, I won’t do it. I’m scared of heights. Not a chance, bud. Drop it.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

I am the:

Fi: I agree with this. I usually just focus on walking around.
Ne: Usually this is just my weird thoughts of life which I usually just take for imagination and joking.
Se or Si: Not sure. I'm always going to recognize the things of something but I suppose because I've never been to an amusement park. I mean I've been to sea world but I have never been twice. In real life things still hold a certain effect that i relate them to like going in a Micheal's art store and immediately expecting to smell scented pine cones or the sight of winter things.
Te:Not so much but these are things I usually leave that up to other people.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

And do the P types still resonate more for you than the J types?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> And do the P types still resonate more for you than the J types?


Yes,that hasn't really changed but I feel I'm missing something extroverted.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Ahh ok. What about the type 7 resonates for you?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ahh ok. What about the type 7 resonates for you?


Being driven by fear.

Not wanting to ultimately be controlled and having no plans to actually spend the freedom. Just obeying the whim of the moment until everything piles up and doing my best to fight away what may pile up. Also, anxiety is something common and right now its the future that gives me the most anxiety so I fill myself up with other activities. Also, the 6 wing on the end usually represents weird problems with levels of intimacy. Do you think this is wrong?


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Enneagram 7 (Seven)

EPs (ENFP, ESFP, ENTP, ESTP). Clearly, the Seven represents Extraversion, as well as a combination of Ne and Se. According to Myers-Briggs theory, Ne and Se do not occur within the functional stack of the same type. Nonetheless, both can be viewed as novelty-seeking functions that can be associated with Sevens.



> Also, the 6 wing on the end usually represents weird problems with levels of intimacy. Do you think this is wrong?


Honestly, I've never heard that before. Do you normally consider yourself an extrovert or introvert? Are you really aware of your environment or more in your head? 

Se and Ne can be easy to confuse. Se wants to go on physical adventures. Ne wants to go on adventures with it's ideas.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Enneagram 7 (Seven)
> 
> EPs (ENFP, ESFP, ENTP, ESTP). Clearly, the Seven represents Extraversion, as well as a combination of Ne and Se. According to Myers-Briggs theory, Ne and Se do not occur within the functional stack of the same type. Nonetheless, both can be viewed as novelty-seeking functions that can be associated with Sevens.
> 
> ...


After thinking about it, I guess I'm an introvert spend most of my time in my head. I don't know for sure as my life has presented me with few opportunities to be social with people I really like all that much, but while bothering, I suppose I somewhat like it that way. 

I wasn't aware that was a distinction actually.I suppose its Se then. I naturally want to explore life and people but also have my own worries and biases against doing it. I may envision what it might be like but that's usually pretty hard I guess unless its been described.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> After thinking about it, I guess I'm an introvert spend most of my time in my head. I don't know for sure as my life has presented me with few opportunities to be social with people I really like all that much, but while bothering, I suppose I somewhat like it that way.
> 
> I wasn't aware that was a distinction actually. I suppose its Se then. I naturally want to explore life and people but also have my own worries and biases against doing it. I may envision what it might be like but that's usually pretty hard I guess unless its been described.


I would suggest you figure out your shadow functions- the type you act like when stressed. I'll list the types 7's usually are and ISFP. 

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTJ. Example characteristics are being very critical and finding fault with almost everything, becoming bossy and ignoring others' feelings, having a very pessimistic view of the future, and seeing hidden meanings that are not really there. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ISFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of INTJ. Example characteristics are to go quiet or withdraw from people, have a gloomy view of the future, openly criticise other people, and to suddenly lose touch with the present realities of the situation. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ESFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ENFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ISTJ. Example characteristics include being pedantic about unimportant details or doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising. Others may also see you as being uncharacterisically critical of others, and finding fault with almost everything. You may even take charge whilst riding roughshod over other people's feelings. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ENFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ENTP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ISFJ. Example characteristics are being pedantic about unimportant details, doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising - expressing emotions in an intensive and uncontrolled way, being very sensitive to criticism. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ENTP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESTP's shadow may appear - a negative form of INFJ. Example characteristics are going quiet or withdrawing from people, having a gloomy view of the future, having intense negative feelings towards others, and losing touch with the current realities with which you have to deal. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ESTP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

The info came from:

Teamtechnology.com

ESTPs and stress


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I would suggest you figure out your shadow functions- the type you act like when stressed. I'll list the types 7's usually are and ISFP.
> 
> Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTJ. Example characteristics are being very critical and finding fault with almost everything, becoming bossy and ignoring others' feelings, having a very pessimistic view of the future, and seeing hidden meanings that are not really there. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ISFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.
> 
> ...


I can identify with all the SF types. Since they are mostly all the same in starting functions, I'd assume I'm still an ISFP but I just don't understand how Se is applicable. If anything, I guess the only thing I didn't try was _new things_ and if that's the problem then I may just be at a bad place to use this information. My life doesn't offer too many new opportunities and experiences besides the ones i derive from readings and books and I guess that's not the same.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I can identify with all the SF types. Since they are mostly all the same in starting functions, I'd assume I'm still an ISFP but I just don't understand how Se is applicable. If anything, I guess the only thing I didn't try was new things and if that's the problem then I may just be at a bad place to use this information. My life doesn't offer too many new opportunities and experiences besides the ones i derive from readings and books and I guess that's not the same.


So you're confused on how a person would use Se?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Pretty much. It just seems like something you do regardless. It's like living. I admit I want new experiences, and want to experience the things I think about naturally when I think about hem, but what it would look like in an ISFP is different. Sorry if I am confusing you.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Pretty much. It just seems like something you do regardless. It's like living. I admit I want new experiences, and want to experience the things I think about naturally when I think about hem, but what it would look like in an ISFP is different. Sorry if I am confusing you.


Haha it's ok. For example I see a picture of a bird. I use Si. 

“I see a yellow bird *that reminds me of* my own bird. I have three birds but this birds body stature *reminds me of* my cockatiel; bossy, confident, grumpy, loving, etc. Looking at the yellow bird *swells up my love* for my cockatiel.”
I am saying “This bird feels like my bird” but “This bird has physical characteristics similar to (insert former sensory experience here)” A Se user would say “It’s a yellow bird.” Se users “just see what is in front of them. - Convo from me and Robert2928

I knew an ESFP girl. She loved living in the moment, was spontaneous, didn't need a plan to feel comfortable, loved using her body-mostly by dancing, liked doing new stuff. Whereas I am not spontaneous, I need a plan, it's hard for me to just go with the moment, and I get the same enjoyment from playing my same video games over and over again. When I play my Kingdom Hearts I think of all the past strategies I used. A Se user might play the same games over and over but their not going to be reliving the joy from all the past games, they just get the joy from that current moment- so they don't think in depth of how they won the game from the last time they played. Se users don't think of all the past joys-in depth emotions, the game brings them like how it does for me-Si user.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Okay, I suppose I can get that. I still have needs to see new stuff and environments and can use Si suppose to see what I like about them. On one level, I've noticed my appreciation slightly for visual appeals and other sensory things, and I have always wanted to feel many of my daydreams as one day being physical experiences. I guess I was having a problem because before we, and others, were talking about the Ni-Fi loop which I find very annoying and too frequent a process in my head as it riddles me with anxiety I guess sometimes causing me quick gripping anxiety. I get worried and think I see something and go on the limbs of said anxiety in my head. I was hoping that trying to observe Se would have helped but I've been quite frustrated since I started trying.

I know your an ISTJ so its different for you, bu they say excising Se is good for ISFP's who have this problem. I just don't know how. Do you think it has something to do something besides MBTI, or Se is just supposed to be experiences that help put the anxieties or questions away?


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> On one level, I've noticed my appreciation slightly for visual appeals and other sensory things, and I have always wanted to feel many of my daydreams as one day being physical experiences.


dominant Fi users daydream. But ISFP's don't daydream as much as INFP's. ISFP's daydreams are going to be more about physical, real stuff. INFP's use Ne so they want to daydream about countless possibilities, not concrete stuff. So to me it sounds like you are an ISFP. 

you could observe Se by watching celebrity interviews who are dominant or auxiliary Se users. See if you relate to them. Anxiety is worrying about the future. So what about the future do you worry about? 

Se is about living completely in the moment. So kind of. Se isn't supposed to be necessarily for anything. Se just is what it is.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

I guess I just worry about things like future lifestyle and meeting people I actually like and can settle around with. The rest I guess is partly personal, and the rest is just not feeling right about somethings that happen and things I do that really just seem to bother me and leaves me feeling anxious.

Thanks for the Se tip.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I guess I just worry about things like future lifestyle and meeting people I actually like and can settle around with. The rest I guess is partly personal, and the rest is just not feeling right about somethings that happen and things I do that really just seem to bother me and leaves me feeling anxious.


You are young though right? I think in general those are pretty normal things to worry about at your age. And you're welcome  


ISFP celebrities:

Famous ISFPs - CelebrityTypes.com


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> dominant Fi users daydream. But ISFP's don't daydream as much as INFP's. ISFP's daydreams are going to be more about physical, real stuff. INFP's use Ne so they want to daydream about countless possibilities, not concrete stuff. So to me it sounds like you are an ISFP.
> 
> you could observe Se by watching celebrity interviews who are dominant or auxiliary Se users. See if you relate to them. Anxiety is worrying about the future. So what about the future do you worry about?
> 
> Se is about living completely in the moment. So kind of. Se isn't supposed to be necessarily for anything. Se just is what it is.


 My daydreams were only for my teens and started heavily along with my obsession with music and stories. It also started with my need for morality and actually questioning the stuff I did during my teens. I also understand that since all types have an extroverted function then an introverted function, they may all day dream as its natural and human. However, I must agree that all my dreams are very much about physical things and turning them into physical things and reliving them over and over again until they are finished. They have also been about actual places that I have visited or can remember in detail.

I also did far less daydreaming as a kid due to how engaging things were. I mean I played around alot more than now since I'm older and haven't really had the opportunity.

Also, I did what you said and that was generally helpful. I actually really like the Se side of things. I thought I was missing new opportunities, but turns out I do alot of Se stuff and have since I was younger. However, many health and and life trends stopped me from being reckless or athletic. As far as experiences go, Public speaking(unplanned), music, food, and other things have always been apart of me and what I did. I'm not sure where video games go in that as there not very active, but I also did a lot of craft work. Do you ave to be really athletic and fearless to be an Se dom?

I also checked about the Ni-Fi thing, and the person who had said it actually meant that I had an Ni related worry thing based on the conversation. He thought my hypothesis of ideas was just out of touch with what he thought an ISFP would have come up with and says it may just be because my Ni is inferior or even an auxiliary. That may be why when we did our shadow function exercise, I really felt for the INTJ and INFJ descriptions first among the ENTJ one.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> My daydreams were only for my teens and started heavily along with my obsession with music and stories. It also started with my need for morality and actually questioning the stuff I did during my teens.
> 
> 
> > I also understand that since all types have an extroverted function then an introverted function, they may all day dream as its natural and human
> ...


Yes, but the function that really makes someone a daydreamer is dominant Fi and usually more so introverts and intuitives. Especially INFP's-Fi+Ne. They are the biggest daydreamers. Think of Luna Lovegood from Harry Potter-either INFP or INTP. They are called "the dreamers." They are known for having problems implementing their dreams since their dreams aren't usually tangible and their Te is low. In contrast to me, I am not a daydreamer and I never have been. I'm more like Hermione-either ESTJ or ISTJ from Harry Potter. 



> Also, I did what you said and that was generally helpful. I actually really like the Se side of things. I thought I was missing new opportunities, but turns out I do alot of Se stuff and have since I was younger. However, many health and and life trends stopped me from being reckless or athletic. As far as experiences go, Public speaking(unplanned), music, food, and other things have always been apart of me and what I did. *I'm not sure where video games go in that as there not very active,* but I also did a lot of craft work. Do you ave to be really athletic and fearless to be an Se dom?


So you like the Se side of things...but do you naturally use Se? Yes, the person you were as a child is your true type. So you it sounds like you like activities which engage you with the physical world? ISTP's are called "the crafters" the stereotypical carpenters. No...it's just athleticism comes easier to Se dom and auxiliary Se because Se responds fast to environmental cues and likes being psychical. So like most basketball players are Se dom because they think so fast on their feet during a game and basketball is a physical activity. Se users, more so dominant Se users tend to be fearless because they are impulsive...they think before acting...they don't make time to get scared. They love the thrill of the moment, usually are te adrenaline junkies. 

Se vs Si:

Extraverted Sensing (Se) vs. Introverted Sensing (Si)

I would suggest watching these videos:











Also, any vidoes by Doctorjuice1, NF insights, and Davesuperpowers are good.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Yes, but the function that really makes someone a daydreamer is dominant Fi and usually more so introverts and intuitives. Especially INFP's-Fi+Ne. They are the biggest daydreamers. Think of Luna Lovegood from Harry Potter-either INFP or INTP. They are called "the dreamers." They are known for having problems implementing their dreams since their dreams aren't usually tangible and their Te is low. In contrast to me, I am not a daydreamer and I never have been. I'm more like Hermione-either ESTJ or ISTJ from Harry Potter.
> 
> 
> So you like the Se side of things...but do you naturally use Se? Yes, the person you were as a child is your true type. So you it sounds like you like activities which engage you with the physical world? ISTP's are called "the crafters" the stereotypical carpenters. No...it's just athleticism comes easier to Se dom and auxiliary Se because Se responds fast to environmental cues and likes being psychical. So like most basketball players are Se dom because they think so fast on their feet during a game and basketball is a physical activity. Se users, more so dominant Se users tend to be fearless because they are impulsive...they think before acting...they don't make time to get scared. They love the thrill of the moment, usually are te adrenaline junkies.
> ...


I have seen those videos and re watched them to make sure I'm not missing anything. Definitely not much of an Ne person as you predicted.

As far as Se v Si, I think I can do Se a it better than Si. I especially like the phrase" Se and Ni types, by contrast, would be more apt to go out and buy whatever they think they need without giving it a second thought. Their first instinct toward the material world is not to conserve, but to consume. " But i'll have to pass on being fearless and that impulsive. Now a days I guess I'm more conceios of things I do sometimes then others. Also, did you mean to type ISTP?


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I wonder if you maybe are an ISTP, or INFJ. I think you use Se but I'm not sure if it's your auxiliary function. 

How go with the flow are you? Do you like to just discover things as you go or like having somewhat of a plan? 

Say I showed you a picture of a bird. What would you say to describe it?


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I'm also curious to know what Hogwarts House you would belong in. From experiences it seems functions and Hogwarts houses can be connected. 

If you want to, here is a house sorting test:

Pottermore Sorting Hat Quiz


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I wonder if you maybe are an ISTP, or INFJ. I think you use Se but I'm not sure if it's your auxiliary function.
> 
> How go with the flow are you? Do you like to just discover things as you go or like having somewhat of a plan?
> 
> Say I showed you a picture of a bird. What would you say to describe it?


I'm pretty layed back. While I like having somewhat of a plan, I usually prefer to just give it up until I get to its bigger details. Best example is sandbox games I play. I ma have a very specific idea at the time, but I may not execute it that way or may have another inspiration. I struggle with maintained plans as well.

I will remember its basic details and describe its color. I may also notice anything out of place about the bird that I think is interesting.

Congratulations! Welcome to RAVENCLAW HOUSE. Our emblem is the eagle, which soars where others cannot fly; our house colours are blue and bronze. We pride ourselves on intelligence, creativity, individuality, wit and learning, and our common room is found at the top of Ravenclaw tower, behind a door with an enchanted knocker. Traits: Intelligence, wit, creativity, imaginative, curiosity, individuality and eccentricity. Notable people: Luna Lovegood, Cho Chang, Professor Flitwick.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Hmm...see ISFP's like to discover as they go, no plan, and are impulsive. Is that you? 

Ravenclaw is associated with Ti- ISTP, INTP, INFJ (rarely ISFJ though), and sometimes INTJ. ISFP's are almost always Gryffindor's. Se is the essence of Gryffindor. My ESFP friend was a Gryffindor. 

So again, that makes me wonder if you are not an ISFP. But maybe an ISTP or INFJ, or slight chance of INTJ. 

How would you write a novel? 

Te: Write an outline with an estimated word count and charted plot points / progression for each subsequent chapter.

Ti: Invent a logically consistent world that makes sense from a narrative point of view, and perhaps go some way in inventing languages along the way.

Fe: Decide what emotional impact you want your novel to have, and find an appropriate way to express difficult themes without alienating the reader.

Fi: Find a theme that resonates with a deep personal belief or experience, and write it mostly for yourself.


Ne: Start writing. After a few chapters you wind up with 45 main characters and subsequent plot lines all running simultaneously. 


Ni: Spend months and even years visualizing every element of your highly conceptual story, then sit down and write it without much revision. 


Se: Emphasis is on impacting sentences and intense experiences for the reader. Sensory details are devoid of emotional sentiment.

Si: Focuses on those archetypes and themes that are significant to you, often supplemented by a vast library of reading experience. Natural sense of plot structure.

Combine these and you can see how writers tap into different functions. Something I have noticed is that N writers often incorporate description to try and ground their story or make it seem more real, whereas sensor writers usually tap into their intuitive functions to branch out into unexplored territories. Feelers might dip into thinking to structure their worlds with logic and/or explore different principles, just as thinkers might explore emotions through their writing. 

Often our lower functions are how we “play” so we access them during writing.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Hmm...see ISFP's like to discover as they go, no plan, and are impulsive. Is that you?
> 
> Ravenclaw is associated with Ti- ISTP, INTP, INFJ (rarely ISFJ though), and sometimes INTJ. ISFP's are almost always Gryffindor's. Se is the essence of Gryffindor. My ESFP friend was a Gryffindor.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm not quite sure. I din't want to answer right away due to the fact that my impulsiveness is weird and is more or less something I have to fight against. Sometimes I feel it when I want to do something new but I always at least figure out something ahead of time. For instance, when I was living in the city, after hearing about a gaming hanging out spot very out of the way from my house, I went the same day once I had enough information if that makes sense. I knew where it was and once I did, I just went for it and kinda tried it out. "I'm not sure this is impulsive enough but it's usually what I end up doing with most impulsive things. I wont do it blindly and will avoid certain risks but will take some."

As far as my writing goes, I suppose it mimics Fe somewhat where I find the emotion and do my best to draw on it and find a series of events. I've only tried to write once actually and it was to reflect the concept of Grief experiences and how people navigate them. The emotions were chosen like Fe and I knew what would happen in the beginning but I didn't think that far ahead. but many different things started to develop as the story wet on until things naturally worked themselves out. I enjoyed very much envisioning what I would be like as a helpful character and liked the idea of wanting to help someone through something like that so the story wasn't particularly all Fe, but I guess there was some Fi? Either way I guess I can understand the , "just as thinkers might explore emotions through their writing" as I do with fantasy and trying to give the story some details although that doesn't really bother me when writing.

This is cool  Nothing I ever thought of.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I knew what would happen in the beginning but I didn't think that far ahead.





> I've only tried to write once actually


I doubt you are a Ni dominant then. 

So it's come down to XSTP and XSFP.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTJ. Example characteristics are being very critical and finding fault with almost everything, becoming bossy and ignoring others' feelings, having a very pessimistic view of the future, and seeing hidden meanings that are not really there. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ISFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISTP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENFJ. Example characteristics are displaying intense feelings towards others, or insisting on things being done without any logical basis. When under extreme stress, you may become very sensitive to criticism, adopt a gloomy view of the future, and attribute unrealistic negative meaning to others' actions or statements. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ISTP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Inferior Fe (IXTP): I want to help you, but I’m not sure what to say to make you feel better. I feel protective of you, and I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but sometimes I do. I would never admit it in a million years, but I care how you see me and I need your encouragement. The more I respect you, the more hurt I am if you ignore or belittle me. That being said… I really don’t understand why you’re making such emotional decisions!

Inferior Te (IXFP): I know I had that information before, but I’m not sure where it is. I long to be efficient, but I can’t seem to pull it off. I do like organizing my books, though; they have their own system! I don’t like schedules, but they help me stay on track. Oh, this is wrong! I know I’m forgetting something! I should be more organized! I like to be efficient, and try to use my time wisely, and I enjoy having some sense of control over my life and environment.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

No really sure what to go for here. We did the XSXP's before and I found them all very much how I am under stress and how I am most of the time but I can't choose out of these four.

I suppose the Fe makes this difficult as i'm much more likely to be on my own wih my thinking such as with value and ethics and can even be a little angry if somebody is doing an Fe thing of objective standards of the people around them. I generally have my own thoughts and, especially during my teenage years, haven't been afraid to present them as logically as I can often taking much time to gather my thoughts together so they make sense.

The Te is just sort of me all the time. I ave information relevant to the topic but may miss all the specifics pertaining to it besides the general concept I'm illustrating for the situation. I loose things very often as I don't care to maintain order but will do it on a whim only for extreme dysfunction and others genuine approval of my presentation. If I did however have my control to structure my life, it would probably made up of few things that were necessary as I'm generally bad at planning and being left alone to complete long term and mid length task that I don't care for until the last minute.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> No really sure what to go for here. We did the XSXP's before and I found them all very much how I am under stress and how I am most of the time but I can't choose out of these four.
> 
> I suppose the Fe makes this difficult as i'm much more likely to be on my own wih my thinking such as with value and ethics and can even be a little angry if somebody is doing an Fe thing of objective standards of the people around them. I generally have my own thoughts and, especially during my teenage years, haven't been afraid to present them as logically as I can often taking much time to gather my thoughts together so they make sense.
> 
> The Te is just sort of me all the time. I ave information relevant to the topic but may miss all the specifics pertaining to it besides the general concept I'm illustrating for the situation. I loose things very often as I don't care to maintain order but will do it on a whim only for extreme dysfunction and others genuine approval of my presentation. If I did however have my control to structure my life, it would probably made up of few things that were necessary as I'm generally bad at planning and being left alone to complete long term and mid length task that I don't care for until the last minute.


No, sorry, not 4. It's shadow functions and inferior Te vs inferior Fe. Have you tried this?

ISFP or ISTP Test - CelebrityTypes.com


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> No, sorry, not 4. It's shadow functions and inferior Te vs inferior Fe. Have you tried this?
> 
> ISFP or ISTP Test - CelebrityTypes.com


Well the test you listed appears to see me as an ISTP (65% to 35%) but I think most of the questions were preferential such as "what irks you more". Thought the results say ISTP, I lack the precision in my life in any subject in particular to be an ISTP. However in her video,I do obey her trends of why ISFPs do the things they do. Does this mean I am an ISFP?


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)




----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)




----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Now what are you thinking?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

I am now somewhere in the middle actually. It usually doesn't take me much time to develop what makes sense and I'm much easier about communicating what makes sense. Also, I like thinking out loud as opposed to mulling over things in my head which sometimes angers people as its not perfect. With a little more thought I can perfect my idea but may still miss the pint if delivered verbally. The ISTP problems with communication is something I often remember as seeing things done incorrectly drive me absolutely nuts. However, I must remember that sometimes people are being forced to do things a certain way such as with airport security and my teachers and fellow collaborators on projects so ai have to contain my anger at what seems inefficient for me.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Sounds like your gaining a firmer grasp on the functions.

I am thinking you use Ne over Se also. I just haven't seen too much evidence for Se. I am also thinking you are a Ti- Fe user. So your thinking either ENTP or ENFP? But probably ENTP?

How each type reacts to stress:

http://psychologyjunkie.com/2015/08/02/how-each-mbti-type-reacts-to-stress-and-how-to-help/


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Yea, ill take the ENTP and have recognized alot of my trigger situations. Oddly enough they are daily, especially the lack of stimulation. It probably explains why I'm tired staying at home and enjoyed my recent bursts of activity as just not doing nothing really messes with me.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Yea, ill take the ENTP and have recognized alot of my trigger situations. Oddly enough they are daily, especially the lack of stimulation. It probably explains why I'm tired staying at home and enjoyed my recent bursts of activity as just not doing nothing really messes with me.


Ahh so you consider your natural self to be more active and not so passive?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ahh so you consider your natural self to be more active and not so passive?


Yes actually. I never really get to go to many places I'd like to when I have free time. I'm working to make myself a bit better traveled and getting more opportunity to drive. I like to at least be doing something rather than nothing. Even when I have nothing to due, I usually find something else to do.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Yes actually. I never really get to go to many places I'd like to when I have free time. I'm working to make myself a bit better traveled and getting more opportunity to drive. I like to at least be doing something rather than nothing. Even when I have nothing to due, I usually find something else to do.


I think more activity could be applied to Ne or Se, and maybe extraversion. Both Ne and Se correlate to type 7 on the enneagram.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I think more activity could be applied to Ne or Se, and maybe extraversion. Both Ne and Se correlate to type 7 on the enneagram.





Kitty23 said:


> Enneagram 7 (Seven)
> 
> EPs (ENFP, ESFP, ENTP, ESTP). Clearly, the Seven represents Extraversion, as well as a combination of Ne and Se. According to Myers-Briggs theory, Ne and Se do not occur within the functional stack of the same type. Nonetheless, both can be viewed as novelty-seeking functions that can be associated with Sevens.
> 
> ...


 Well I suppose that would also make sense with it being my social variant then like we were talking about before.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Well I suppose that would also make sense with it being my social variant then like we were talking about before.


This is a good source too

The Ti-Fe & Fi-Te Function Pairs


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> This is a good source too
> 
> The Ti-Fe & Fi-Te Function Pairs


Well now I'm actually not sure. I've never considered Fi to be like that. I know we talked about sentimentality and feelings that are personal to you and how those are Fi, but I don't know which axis I'm on after that. What is the critical parent function like by the way?

I am adverse to what might be considered "Fe conflict" like arguing parties and will settle them quickly by usually losing a level and probably jumping the gun by either being slightly rude or "condescending" if we are having a pointless intellectual argument. I also don't necessarily emit the "good vibes" all the time ether and have never understood that about Fe description. I do however often worry of Fe situations for the future, but as far as actual people, I usually don't focus on it and try to just act the way they do or just be myself and make things somewhat problematic between cerain groups of people because some are too hard to emulate ad play into.

I'm not even sure where I stand on the Empathy vs Sympathy. I lean heavily more on the sympathy thought because if I know something messes with me, I'm unlikely to do that to them or at least naturally avoid this wih them. For instance, I have something against getting in peoples way. So if I see that there is something going on somewhere in a lab or space, I usually leave them alone and let them do whatever they are going to do first. I would say this sounds more like Fe, but at the same time, sometimes I can't be bothered and accidentally forget in the moment and may hurt them. This happens often unfortunatley because my friends are often joking on one another and it takes special care for me to do what they do like dance around issues.

I'm leaning Fi over Ti, but I am still not sure. Are there any other differentiations besides whats listed there?


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Do your values come from objective data or internal data? 

Are you against slavery because you absorb the suffering of the slaves first and foremost? Or because slavery goes against your strict internal moral code (which originally came from yourself)? 

I'm a huge fan of Game of Thrones and really love the character Daenerys Targaryen. I kept trying to figure out if she was a Fe or Fi user. I asked my mom who also watches the show "Do you think Dany ended slavery because she absorbed the feelings of the slaves? Or because it first went against her moral code?" My mom said "because she absorbed their suffering first." And I said "Why do you think I would end slavery?" She said "You? First because of the moral code. Slavery is simply wrong. No question about it." 

I had a hard time with the slavery scenario until I got other's opinions on why I would be against it. So you could ask those who know you also. 

Daenerys Targaryen - MBTI in Fiction

"When she began riding with the Dothraki, she assimilated their values as well, creating a more complex identity and worldview....Her goal of reclaiming the Iron Throne is motivated by the desire to bring peace and stability to Westeros rather than a personal desire of “I deserve this”. Daenerys will always think “they need me” before anything else."

Type Contrast: INTP vs INFP Since I’ve already... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/comments/28b8s5/fi_vs_ti/

I saw the posts of how Te vs Ti/Se vs Si/Fe vs Fi... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

Te-Fi vs. Ti-Fe - Confessions of a Myers Briggs-aholic


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

How much of a desire do you have to bring everyone together/keep the group together? 

Both Te and Fe are judging functions. These functions draw conclusions based on received information/information from outside sources. They have a desire to move toward an answer, decision, or objective. They can be stubborn to taking in new information that contradicts their own. 

"Oprah is a Fe-dom (likely ESFJ-Fe-Ti, though she’s typed ENFJ a lot online). I tried to find the James Frey original interview with Oprah where she really nailed him (as she puts it, she was attacking him not only for herself, but “the millions of people who read your book and thought it was real”) but I can’t seem to locate it. Boo. But here’s a quick clip with Lindsay Lohan where she lays down the Fe. Basically, cut your BS, get your act together, etc. But it also comes with Fe: you’re better than this, I know you can do it, you have a good heart." 






Oprah's is famous for relating to the audience. She just naturally wants to unite people. She relies on objective values- group values. Like in her weight loss commercial she naturally just touches people’s hearts. She just naturally talks for other people. She says "Inside EVERY woman" She's talking for everyone, and relating to everyone- Fe. Fe users naturally use words like "You and We." Fi users tend to say "I and Me."






"Dr. Phil is an ESTJ-Te-Fi. If you want classic hard-knocks Te-telling-people-off, go watch some of his interview clips on YouTube. This one is the first one I ran across, and it’s hilarious how he responds… total Te. THESE ARE THE FACTS. Here is another clip where he asserts just who is boss, whose show it is, what they are going to talk about, and where he stands with a guest."

Couldn't find the video for Dr. Phil. But when I watch his shows, he almost always says "Well, then do something about it!!!"- very Te. "These are the FACTS" and the he shows a bullet point list of the facts (statistics, etc.)- very Te. He relies on objective truth- the facts. Or he just says straight up "I think you're a liar and full of crap." See, he doesn't care about group harmony or group values. Or he finds loopholes in peoples stories, to make the FACTS clear. He wants things to make logical sense. His #1 goal is to bring the FACTS to the surface for everyone to see. He wants immediate results and to organize the objective truth. As for Fi, he has the abuser go through the same abuse he does to others. Like for example, he made a step-dad carry around heavy of weights to make him realize "how much weight his step-son feels from all of the verbal abuse he's received over the years (from the step-dad)." Dr. Phil wanted to put the step-dad in the kids shoes- Fi.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Well now I'm actually not sure. I've never considered Fi to be like that. I know we talked about sentimentality and feelings that are personal to you and how those are Fi, but I don't know which axis I'm on after that. What is the critical parent function like by the way?


sentimentality is connected to Si. Personal feelings is Fi. 

SillyMBTI



> I am adverse to what might be considered "Fe conflict" like arguing parties and will settle them quickly by usually losing a level and probably jumping the gun by either being slightly rude or "condescending" if we are having a pointless intellectual argument. I also don't necessarily emit the "good vibes" all the time ether and have never understood that about Fe description. I do however often worry of Fe situations for the future, but as far as actual people, I usually don't focus on it and try to just act the way they do or just be myself and make things somewhat problematic between cerain groups of people because some are too hard to emulate ad play into.


"...if we are having a pointless intellectual argument." Could be Ti 



> I'm not even sure where I stand on the Empathy vs Sympathy. I lean heavily more on the sympathy thought because if I know something messes with me, I'm unlikely to do that to them or at least naturally avoid this wih them. For instance, I have something against getting in peoples way. So if I see that there is something going on somewhere in a lab or space, I usually leave them alone and let them do whatever they are going to do first. I would say this sounds more like Fe, but at the same time, sometimes I can't be bothered and accidentally forget in the moment and may hurt them. This happens often unfortunatley because my friends are often joking on one another and it takes special care for me to do what they do like dance around issues.


Do you not want to mess with someone because you can feel their vibe/feelings saying "leave me alone" or because you imagine yourself in their position and think "If that was me I would want to be left alone." ? 



> I'm leaning Fi over Ti, but I am still not sure. Are there any other differentiations besides whats listed there?


Are your values objective or subjective?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> sentimentality is connected to Si. Personal feelings is Fi.
> 
> SillyMBTI
> 
> ...


Well I guess if I had to alternate on what my critical parent function was, I it is probably Te ut Fe is also important. I have a problem in both areas and could use some sort of improvement in extroverted judging functions. To add to that, they are literally right net to each other in the function stack which makes it a more confusing task to pick an axis. Also, with deliberation, my values seem to be more about others than myself so I'd say objective.

Ti is portrayed to be rational and has organization. I guess Imight not have it because I'm still developing it and working on Introverted judging functions. While I can try for organization quite frequently, I'm more likely to trudge on it, blocking my success in things like test and challenges with specific directions and orders. This also usually leads me to feel things are generally just wrong or inefficient and its often hard to direct thoughts to get others to see why. I often have problem explaining long strings of thoughts or large processes which seems more like an Ti problem when working second to Extrovert Intuition.

Ti is also however portrayed in a manner that goes in depth to figure out why. This often isn't my forte all the time. Sometimes I admit I am quite curious about the workings of something when it is related to an idea simply to make sense of it so I'm not sure if thats related. Fi feels a bit more relatable because it describes my more recent journey to see what I value or think about situations like we talked about and there relationship to me. I've been told all Introverted functions do this in the sense that they are inward and special to that person so could this still be Ti but just being used to understand the complexity of my feelings about things? (Not very good at this though)

I do agree with that and I'm often somewhat baffles by arguments that lead to no declarative stance on the issue. So it could be Ti based on criteria as I experience the above frequently.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Also, with deliberation, my values seem to be more about others than myself so I'd say objective.


Sounds like Fe. 



> Ti is portrayed to be rational and has organization.


Yes, but Ti is about internal organization. So it doesn't care about organizing...it's bedroom or being the boss. 

Yes, Fi and Ti can get tricky. Do you care about how things work? Like you have a gadget in front you, do you want to take it apart to figure out how it works? Or do you care more about building your own values?


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Sounds like Fe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't care about the values part as much because things seem to change repeatedly which is why I don't like them because there resistant. I do like knowing how stuff works and might pry into the device if it was seen as useful or I needed its understanding for an idea.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I don't care about the values part as much because things seem to change repeatedly which is why I don't like them because there resistant. I do like knowing how stuff works and might pry into the device if it was seen as useful or I needed its understanding for an idea.


That sounds like Ti over Fi to me. What about INTP? maybe Ti is your first function? So far it looks like you use Ti over Te and Fe over Fi.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Do your values come from objective data or internal data?
> 
> Are you against slavery because you absorb the suffering of the slaves first and foremost? Or because slavery goes against your strict internal moral code (which originally came from yourself)?
> 
> ...


I am sooo sorry! I actually didn't see these because your third comment opened the tenth page and I wasn't counting! I'm really sorry, yesterday was particularly hectic and long. I'm sorry if my replies have seem somewhat drained as that's not very helpful for either of us. Also, I'm usually available til' around about 1 Am EST time.

As far as your Daenerys evaluation, I also watched the beginning of the show and couldn't agree more with that evaluation. Her Fe is pretty interesting and is a much more concrete example I can understand. As far as myself, I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle with it. I generally help other people when I'm in a good mood I guess. It takes a real conscious effort to do so. There has been very few times in my life where I had to deal with it socially. I usually just see the sadness and negative emotions from others and watched back then. When my friend started to cry, I admit to being really confused at the time and any real sense of niceness I do is me just focusing on others for my own reputation but only on levels I think are clearly defined like manners and small talk, out of pure boredom which is why I can be really social in class but hate it when I'm preoccupied and get less work done. I wish I could use your slavery example, but I can't. I naturally wouldn't allow it I guess because once I gain a personal bond with someone, I can't imagine me being able to willingly hurt anyone or see people in pain. Even if I REALLY wanted to in my mind and I was capable, I don't think I could ever do it because it would evoke constant worry and they'd be hurt. It would have to be an extreme reason for me to hurt anyone and even that would still make me uneasy and jumpy as I have a fear of retribution. I hope that makes sense.

I admit to being touched by some peoples emotional stories, but usually its on a level of recognizing to offer whatever I have I guess?. Sometimes I'm not even that good at recognizing it and can push past it if I have something I'm thinking about or that I need something from that person. Its even worse if they are right there and I can see crying and all that and then I'm a deer in the headlights. I'm not sure if its because I don't know what to do or on some level I myself, in some situations, are sad that they are sad and just don't know what to say right then. I'd like to be better at it and the opportunity hasn't come along in awhile so I don't know if I'm any better about it honestly these days.

As far as the INFP v INTP link, I'd go more along with the INTP as it describes me perfectly I guess. I literally feel no two days are the same and there isn't much of myself I feel I should stay true to. Sometimes I am just out of touch and will constantly search for my position on the topic but will often loose it as new info comes in and I find it actually really annoying. This was also why I was in support of Ne, but that topic is below. This is was also the reason why I thought having someone type me would be a lot better as they could hold me to some sense of consistent characteristics and get it all out in the open so I could look at it. In some ways this was immensely effective as I can't just change by what I think sounds relatively like me, but what would make sense for my situation and listed feelings. 

I can admit to feeling isolated to some degree, but can't ever really decide what to do about it. I talked about it with others and they usually just say I'm imagining that and need to learn to be alone, as it physically worries me when I'm alone as I'm worried by those that _may_ be around at night and on the street, but I have often wondered why they contrast to what my mind romanticizes of in stories and daydreams. There defiantly just feels like even though your next to someone and making them laugh, that they are somewhat far away even if you have there attention.

I saw the posts of how Te vs Ti/Se vs Si/Fe vs Fi... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

I generally haven't read this, but had mixed feelings which is why I saved it for last. Trying to come up with random ideas and interpretations like I said earlier is what drove me more to Ne. I can't often do this constructively, but I may think of a character idea or story idea around elements that are presented. I hoped it would also explain different thought styles and my inability to make a clear opinion or point but would rather go out and share my ideas. I agree mostly with the inferior Ni as it bums me out that, regardless of what I might say most of the time, I envision a future, but its too complicated and elaborate on how to get there and makes me feel down so I naturally try to stop thinking about it which helps and makes things much more simple. In away, I thought it would be bad for me to do this, but handling whats around you is somewhat fulfilling in the sense that you don't have to worry about it, but can make those decisions slowly and spurring as factors come up. It's also hard for me because I'm still rather young and have no limitations on my future that are defined besides death. Combine that with the weird Ti/Fe mix of changing thoughts and its actually really exhausting and you feel like you might be wrong all the time.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I am sooo sorry! I actually didn't see these because your third comment opened the tenth page and I wasn't counting! I'm really sorry, yesterday was particularly hectic and long. I'm sorry if my replies have seem somewhat drained as that's not very helpful for either of us. Also, I'm usually available til' around about 1 Am EST time.


It's ok  



> As far as your Daenerys evaluation, I also watched the beginning of the show and couldn't agree more with that evaluation. Her Fe is pretty interesting and is a much more concrete example I can understand. As far as myself, I suppose I'm somewhere in the middle with it. I generally help other people when I'm in a good mood I guess. It takes a real conscious effort to do so. There has been very few times in my life where I had to deal with it socially. I usually just see the sadness and negative emotions from others and watched back then. When my friend started to cry, I admit to being really confused at the time and any real sense of niceness I do is me just focusing on others for my own reputation but only on levels I think are clearly defined like manners and small talk, out of pure boredom which is why I can be really social in class but hate it when I'm preoccupied and get less work done. I wish I could use your slavery example, but I can't. I naturally wouldn't allow it I guess because once I gain a personal bond with someone, I can't imagine me being able to willingly hurt anyone or see people in pain. Even if I REALLY wanted to in my mind and I was capable, I don't think I could ever do it because it would evoke constant worry and they'd be hurt. It would have to be an extreme reason for me to hurt anyone and even that would still make me uneasy and jumpy as I have a fear of retribution. I hope that makes sense.


Sounds like lower Fe 



> I admit to being touched by some peoples emotional stories, but usually its on a level of recognizing to offer whatever I have I guess?. Sometimes I'm not even that good at recognizing it and can push past it if I have something I'm thinking about or that I need something from that person. Its even worse if they are right there and I can see crying and all that and then I'm a deer in the headlights. I'm not sure if its because I don't know what to do or on some level I myself, in some situations, are sad that they are sad and just don't know what to say right then. I'd like to be better at it and the opportunity hasn't come along in awhile so I don't know if I'm any better about it honestly these days.


Again, sounds like lower Fe



> As far as the INFP v INTP link, I'd go more along with the INTP as it describes me perfectly I guess. I literally feel no two days are the same and there isn't much of myself I feel I should stay true to. Sometimes I am just out of touch and will constantly search for my position on the topic but will often loose it as new info comes in and I find it actually really annoying. This was also why I was in support of Ne, but that topic is below.


Yes, that sounds like Ne 



> This is was also the reason why I thought having someone type me would be a lot better as they could hold me to some sense of consistent characteristics and get it all out in the open so I could look at it. In some ways this was immensely effective as I can't just change by what I think sounds relatively like me, but what would make sense for my situation and listed feelings.


Good strategy. 



> I can admit to feeling isolated to some degree, but can't ever really decide what to do about it. I talked about it with others and they usually just say I'm imagining that and need to learn to be alone, as it physically worries me when I'm alone as I'm worried by those that may be around at night and on the street, but I have often wondered why they contrast to what my mind romanticizes of in stories and daydreams. There defiantly just feels like even though your next to someone and making them laugh, that they are somewhat far away even if you have there attention.


Sounds like some Fe 



> I saw the posts of how Te vs Ti/Se vs Si/Fe vs Fi... - Funky MBTI in Fiction
> 
> I generally haven't read this, but had mixed feelings which is why I saved it for last. Trying to come up with random ideas and interpretations like I said earlier is what drove me more to Ne. I can't often do this constructively, but I may think of a character idea or story idea around elements that are presented. I hoped it would also explain different thought styles and my inability to make a clear opinion or point but would rather go out and share my ideas. I agree mostly with the inferior Ni as it bums me out that, regardless of what I might say most of the time, I envision a future, but its too complicated and elaborate on how to get there and makes me feel down so I naturally try to stop thinking about it which helps and makes things much more simple. In away, I thought it would be bad for me to do this, but handling whats around you is somewhat fulfilling in the sense that you don't have to worry about it, but can make those decisions slowly and spurring as factors come up. It's also hard for me because I'm still rather young and have no limitations on my future that are defined besides death. Combine that with the weird Ti/Fe mix of changing thoughts and its actually really exhausting and you feel like you might be wrong all the time.


Sounds like Ne over inferior Ni to me 

So I'm really starting to see you as INTP, or maybe ENTP.


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> It's ok
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well this is disturbing actually...

My original type was an INTP taken from the test here https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test. I didn't think it was mine I guess for the lack of credit I gave myself for the way Ti sounds at its best. I also think looking at profiles of the full type didn't help. I still don't consider myself well put together enough and will have o reread much more about the type as far as what is associated with Ti but it sounds promising, fits my understanding, and matches up as far as what passes for each proposed function.

I thank you once again for all your help and I hope that this, with my added knowledge of functions, will help me understand being an INTP better. It also helps me understand the lower loops and inferior function relationship. Ti + Si which isn't all that I'd made it out to be for once and does a good job explaining my situation as Ne develops and what I was like before it developed recently I guess. I'll have to work on practicing my Ne further and I'm still working on those activities the best I can.


----------



## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Well this is disturbing actually...
> 
> My original type was an INTP taken from the test here https://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test. I didn't think it was mine I guess for the lack of credit I gave myself for the way Ti sounds at its best. I also think looking at profiles of the full type didn't help. I still don't consider myself well put together enough and will have o reread much more about the type as far as what is associated with Ti but it sounds promising, fits my understanding, and matches up as far as what passes for each proposed function.


Haha, I was just telling PennyLane (who might be an INTP) how sometimes our personalities are more evident to others than ourselves. Like a boy who I was in a counseling group with for a quarter at college guessed me to be an ISTJ, and all he knew was the dichotomous letters. I also only knew about the letters. I doubted it for a long time....like a year....then it turns out I am an ISTJ. Creepy right! 



> I thank you once again for all your help and I hope that this, with my added knowledge of functions, will help me understand being an INTP better. It also helps me understand the lower loops and inferior function relationship. Ti + Si which isn't all that I'd made it out to be for once and does a good job explaining my situation as Ne develops and what I was like before it developed recently I guess. I'll have to work on practicing my Ne further and I'm still working on those activities the best I can.


You're welcome!  Very cool you're actually putting theory into practice. Yes, I think maybe INTP for you over ENTP. 

FAQ’s - Confessions of a Myers Briggs-aholic


----------



## CopperrHareV (Oct 22, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Haha, I was just telling PennyLane (who might be an INTP) how sometimes our personalities are more evident to others than ourselves. Like a boy who I was in a counseling group with for a quarter at college guessed me to be an ISTJ, and all he knew was the dichotomous letters. I also only knew about the letters. I doubted it for a long time....like a year....then it turns out I am an ISTJ. Creepy right!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was also another very good link, though it didn't help all that much. Due to the two functions going side by side, Alot of their individual problems all sound the same and leave little to really point to.

As far as whci one is stronger, I guess I'd have to agree with you on the INTP part only because some personal anecdotes seem relatable. The topic of socialization is hard because INTP's have inferior Fe and look for others to explain their feelings to much like what I can usually use, but ENTP's have an NE+Fe loop where all internal thoughts are wrought with needs of validation and relying on the self which I sometimes also need. I'm more inclined to believe the INTP here because I'm usually always in my own corner during an argument because of the way I define things as logical. Also, would you consider most of the extreme social cases with INTP's to be exaggerated?

Also, though I know individual intelligence has nothing to do with type, I mus say I'm not really able to devote myself to any body of knowledge and be held like other examples are good at analysis of some kind and while I can do some, I'm not really good at anything. Upon asking others, they say it may just because I'm too young with undeveloped Ne and show alot of Ti+Si behavior and fit the common teenage INTP where they are lacking Ne reference. Does Exploring MBTI & The INTP Mind - eilamona â€” The Ti-Si loop in INTPs There are multiple... seem like a reasonable source? I can relate but just want to make sure.


----------

