# Hannibal (TV series)



## Subtle Murder

Jennywocky said:


> Yeah, what I heard is that they pulled episode 4, but because it has essential plot elements, they are going to break it up and show it in pieces online like a "webizode" (like they've done with The Walking Dead on occasion, creating little stories just for the online crowd).


Ahhh, that makes sense!  I was kinda keeping my fingers crossed that we'd at least get the episode on the DVD/Bluray release, but if they're going to release it as a webisode that's even better!   'Bout to snuggle down and get some Hannibal in before bed. Hopefully there's nothing too crucial missing. I hate going into episodes with gaps of information. ;(


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## Jennywocky

La Petite Sirène said:


> Ahhh, that makes sense!  I was kinda keeping my fingers crossed that we'd at least get the episode on the DVD/Bluray release, but if they're going to release it as a webisode that's even better!   'Bout to snuggle down and get some Hannibal in before bed. Hopefully there's nothing too crucial missing. I hate going into episodes with gaps of information. ;(


I found it, it's in six bits online.

I assume they excised the stuff that they thought was inappropriate culturally right now, but wanted to present the Abigail Hodges + Hannibal stuff because apparently that relationship becomes important as the series progresses.

The first piece is here:
Hannibal - Ceuf Part 1 - Video - NBC.com


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## Subtle Murder

Jennywocky said:


> The first piece is here:
> Hannibal - Ceuf Part 1 - Video - NBC.com


Aww poop! Because I live in Australia it won't let me view videos on NBC.  Thanks anyway, though! I'm sure it will pop up elsewhere shortly.


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## Jennywocky

La Petite Sirène said:


> Aww poop! Because I live in Australia it won't let me view videos on NBC.  Thanks anyway, though! I'm sure it will pop up elsewhere shortly.


Aw nuts! I'm sorry, but there are various free streaming sites that might pick it up too.

It's possible also that the episode could air in its entirety outside the US in various international markets.


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## Subtle Murder

Jennywocky said:


> Aw nuts! I'm sorry, but there are various free streaming sites that might pick it up too.
> 
> It's possible also that the episode could air in its entirety outside the US in various international markets.


I've managed to find somewhere that has it. :3 Thank you!


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## The Wanderering ______

What does everything is going to happen next episode? It looks like Lecter is going to show his true colors.

Q_Q Can't wait.


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## Subtle Murder

Hmmm... episode 5. T'was good, but I am kinda confused as to why they bothered to include the bit about Crawford's wife. Am I supposed to feel sorry for her? I don't really know her as a character. Maybe it will influence Jack's actions in the future. *shrugs* Was just slightly confused as to the significance.


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## Jennywocky

La Petite Sirène said:


> Hmmm... episode 5. T'was good, but I am kinda confused as to why they bothered to include the bit about Crawford's wife. Am I supposed to feel sorry for her? I don't really know her as a character. Maybe it will influence Jack's actions in the future. *shrugs* Was just slightly confused as to the significance.


All characters need introduced. Obviously they are introducing her. I think also they're trying to expand Crawford's character so we can understand him better, and this also makes him vulnerable to Lecter since his wife is confiding in Lecter. The web grows more tighter...!

It also kind of meshed with the villain of the show, who supposedly shared a similar ailment.

I do see a logistic problem though:


* *




I'm not sure how someone can skin his own back like that. How can he see? How can he reach around? And how did he hoist himself up there? It Looked unsettlingly like Lecter's presentation of the cops in The Silence of the Lambs, honestly -- remember, Lecter likes high art and emulating religious themes. They were both angels here. And there's an insinuation that Lecter is staging copycat killing; I wonder if he tracked down the killer and killed him in turn, then staged the body.


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## Subtle Murder

Jennywocky said:


> All characters need introduced. Obviously they are introducing her. I think also they're trying to expand Crawford's character so we can understand him better, and this also makes him vulnerable to Lecter since his wife is confiding in Lecter. The web grows more tighter...!
> 
> It also kind of meshed with the villain of the show, who supposedly shared a similar ailment.


I managed to find a full copy of _Oeuf_, in which they first introduce the tension between Jack and his wife. So now things make a little more sense as to why she played such a big role in the episode that followed.


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## Tsaiireii

Jennywocky said:


> All characters need introduced. Obviously they are introducing her. I think also they're trying to expand Crawford's character so we can understand him better, and this also makes him vulnerable to Lecter since his wife is confiding in Lecter. The web grows more tighter...!
> 
> It also kind of meshed with the villain of the show, who supposedly shared a similar ailment.
> 
> I do see a logistic problem though:
> 
> 
> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure how someone can skin his own back like that. How can he see? How can he reach around? And how did he hoist himself up there? It Looked unsettlingly like Lecter's presentation of the cops in The Silence of the Lambs, honestly -- remember, Lecter likes high art and emulating religious themes. They were both angels here. And there's an insinuation that Lecter is staging copycat killing; I wonder if he tracked down the killer and killed him in turn, then staged the body.



* *





I agree that it's a possibility that Lecter is responsible. However, I suspect the underlying point of the episode was to establish the connection of the wife to Lecter and the angel thing was more about Graham's state of mind. The girl is connected to Lecter through the first serial killer, but to me, the angel guy is more connected to Graham due to the things he's said in the episode. You do make a good point about the visual presentation. I'm thinking they mean to separate themselves from the Silence of the Lambs depiction, but as far as the 'artistry' goes, totally possible.

Here's my answer to the logical issues. He can mark out where he wants to cut with pretty much anything that he can feel ahead of time with his hands or just the general region of where he needs to cut, and with the additional distance of the knife/whatever, he can definitely reach anything he needs. Afterwards, he could have raised himself with a pulley and lever system or something else, but that's a little less sound - still think it's possible one way or another, seeing as he managed it with one of his victims. They also made it a point to mention how long the first woman lived after being skinned, so he'd probably be alive long enough if he'd gone through the planning (which is what the first victims were for?). And there are any number of reasons the writers can invent for the pain factor - delusion, pain-killers, biological defect, who knows.


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## Proteus

La Petite Sirène said:


> I managed to find a full copy of _Oeuf_, in which they first introduce the tension between Jack and his wife. So now things make a little more sense as to why she played such a big role in the episode that followed.


How long was the episode you found? I dled it but it was only 20some minutes and looked to be the same thing Jennywocky linked to, just put together into one.


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## Subtle Murder

Proteus said:


> How long was the episode you found? I dled it but it was only 20some minutes and looked to be the same thing Jennywocky linked to, just put together into one.


It was roughly 45 minutes.  I think the only available copies are the ones that aired in both Korea and India. The one I watched has Korean subtitles, and the sound quality wasn't all that great, but it was watchable.


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## Jennywocky

Tsaiireii said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that it's a possibility that Lecter is responsible. However, I suspect the underlying point of the episode was to establish the connection of the wife to Lecter and the angel thing was more about Graham's state of mind. The girl is connected to Lecter through the first serial killer, but to me, the angel guy is more connected to Graham due to the things he's said in the episode. You do make a good point about the visual presentation. I'm thinking they mean to separate themselves from the Silence of the Lambs depiction, but as far as the 'artistry' goes, totally possible.
> 
> Here's my answer to the logical issues. He can mark out where he wants to cut with pretty much anything that he can feel ahead of time with his hands or just the general region of where he needs to cut, and with the additional distance of the knife/whatever, he can definitely reach anything he needs. Afterwards, he could have raised himself with a pulley and lever system or something else, but that's a little less sound - still think it's possible one way or another, seeing as he managed it with one of his victims. They also made it a point to mention how long the first woman lived after being skinned, so he'd probably be alive long enough if he'd gone through the planning (which is what the first victims were for?). And there are any number of reasons the writers can invent for the pain factor - delusion, pain-killers, biological defect, who knows.




* *




Well, have you ever tried to cut such large chunks uniformly from your own back, without bleeding out or damaging your spine? You'd have to use a different hand for each side (a pain if you're not ambidextrous), you'd be operating backwards in a mirror, you'd have to staunch the bleeding (there seemed to be a remarkable lack of blood), and any little angle of deviation would result in a huge mistake due to the angle. I just don't view this as realistic unless the guy has hours and hours of practice carving his own back up with his non-favored hand. Seriously. For a first attempt at something with this level of difficulty, it came off remarkably clean; it seems far more believable that someone else, with experience and with a clear non-reversed view, did the deed. Just what makes more sense. But of course the writers will write what they write.




Oh, looks like Salt Lake City pulled Hannibal after hundreds of viewer complaints. Not surprising...


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## Subtle Murder

Jennywocky said:


> Oh, looks like Salt Lake City pulled Hannibal after hundreds of viewer complaints. Not surprising...


Oh, really? :\ That's a shame! I don't get how this show is any more violent than a lot of other shows on TV right now - or certain news events, even - but whatever. The people want what the people want, huh? ;(


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## Jennywocky

La Petite Sirène said:


> Oh, really? :\ That's a shame! I don't get how this show is any more violent than a lot of other shows on TV right now - or certain news events, even - but whatever. The people want what the people want, huh? ;(


Well, Salt Lake City has pulled other shows too in the past. They don't show NBC's New Normal and The Playboy Club, and also does not show Saturday Night Live.


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## Subtle Murder

Jennywocky said:


> Well, Salt Lake City has pulled other shows too in the past. They don't show NBC's New Normal and The Playboy Club, and also does not show Saturday Night Live.


I don't know those other two shows, but SNL? *gasp* They can send the pulled episodes to me, here in Australia. I'll happily watch them.


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## urca

Gonna start watching this tomorrow. So excited! 
Been a while since I watched a thriller, so hopefully this one lives to the hype :3


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## Subtle Murder

Ok so ... that last episode? The last 3-4 minutes? Fantastic.  I was wondering when things were going to start to get interesting in that regard. Here's hoping we get a bit more insight!


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## Subtle Murder

Just gonna leave this here...


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## The Wanderering ______

Ok I'm excited about the next episode. A killer trying to kill a killer at the same time that killer is trying to kill that killer. Brilliant!!!


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## A Little Bit of Cheeze

I think I change my mind on Will's being an INFJ. I suspected after around episode 3/4 that something was just not sitting right with him in that category. Disregarding the extreme empathy (which was why I suspected INFJ in the first place), he seems much too sure of himself in a way I only usually see in INFPs. He knows himself in a way that I only see in Fi users. It's like they know themselves deep down, but they stop themselves from knowing for the sake of their own sanity. Fe users know themselves and those around them, it seems as if there are no closed doors, or at least has been my experience. 

Now, of course it would be hard to type a character like Will because of his abnormality, and maybe I just need some sleep and am overthinking it, but any thoughts? 

And yesterday's episode was excellent. Hannibal can fight. Well, make that the day before last, at this hour. 

Goodnight.


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## dino deen

and...i'm just gonna say that i think this show is awesome, i think i'm a bit behind ( about an epsiode) so I really can't contribute anything much.

i do have one question though, why does hannibal seem to like feeding people other people? i'm guess that he does that because in a perverse way, he feels delighted in having people do what they would otherwise deem evil. my other thought is that perhaps it is his way of feeling less outcast...people enjoy eating what he eats, so in a way it makes it okay, because others enjoy doing it to. what do you think?


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## The Wanderering ______

dino deen said:


> and...i'm just gonna say that i think this show is awesome, i think i'm a bit behind ( about an epsiode) so I really can't contribute anything much.
> 
> i do have one question though, why does hannibal seem to like feeding people other people? i'm guess that he does that because in a perverse way, he feels delighted in having people do what they would otherwise deem evil. my other thought is that perhaps it is his way of feeling less outcast...people enjoy eating what he eats, so in a way it makes it okay, because others enjoy doing it to. what do you think?


I think you just answered your own question.


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## dino deen

The Wanderering ______ said:


> I think you just answered your own question.



which would be the answer? perverse delight or feeling of being less of an outcast?


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## Jennywocky

dino deen said:


> which would be the answer? perverse delight or feeling of being less of an outcast?


Does it have to be just one?


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## dino deen

Jennywocky said:


> Does it have to be just one?



Perverse delight in feeling less of an outcast? I didn't think of that honestly, partly because I'm slightly confused as to whether sociopaths can feel a need to belong as a result of their lack have empathy, more particularly since Hannibal is a pure sociopath (I would think).

What I'm trying to ask is whether empathy influences the need to belong.

I don't think so, but Hannibal just seems to like having company (some over for dinner almost every night?) so I am slightly confused.


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## Jennywocky

dino deen said:


> Perverse delight in feeling less of an outcast? I didn't think of that honestly, partly because I'm slightly confused as to whether sociopaths can feel a need to belong as a result of their lack have empathy, more particularly since hannibal is a pure sociopath (i think).


Well, one issue is that it's kind of hard to write stories about true psychopaths as characters, if you need to empathize with the character. So it might not be "exact." Is Lecter as portrayed as a textbook psychopath, or a more complex human who murders people and does things with their bodies?

I think in the last episode I've been watching (I think it's the most recent), in his dealings with his own shrink, Lecter seems to cover up a need to feel appreciated and included in some way, and there's an undercurrent of potential revenge/superiority/whatever when he feeds people the corpses of the dead. It likely thrills him because he feels superior (they don't know what they're eating, the fools), and also because he's getting away with an act prohibitied by his culture, and also because he is bonding with his guests in a twisted way... and even perhaps bonding with his victim. 

Psychology is typically not a one-one connection, there is multiplicity of motivation as well as behavior, and it's more a tangled ball of yarn than an easily explicable chain of cause/effect.


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## The Wanderering ______

Jennywocky said:


> Does it have to be just one?


Exactly.


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## The Wanderering ______

Jennywocky said:


> Psychology is typically not a one-one connection, there is multiplicity of motivation as well as behavior, and it's more a tangled ball of yarn than an easily explicable chain of cause/effect.


Yep. This is why it literally impossible to find any one universal motive for why Killers kill. This is also uncomfortable to think about because you can't find a way to prevent another sandy hooks/colorado/craigslist killer from emerging. Psychopaths don't have to have any kind of vengeance scheme in mind, they don't need to have a rough childhood to do what they do. They just do it (like Nike).


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## Jennywocky

The Wanderering ______ said:


> Yep. This is why it literally impossible to find any one universal motive for why Killers kill. This is also uncomfortable to think about because you can't find a way to prevent another sandy hooks/colorado/craigslist killer from emerging. Psychopaths don't have to have any kind of vengeance scheme in mind, they don't need to have a rough childhood to do what they do. They just do it (like Nike).


...



> A scorpion and a frog meet on the bank of a stream and the scorpion asks the frog to carry him across on its back. The frog asks, "But how do I know you won't sting me?"
> 
> The scorpion says, "Well, because if I do, I will die too."
> 
> The frog is satisfied, and they set out, but in midstream, the frog feels a large spike of pain in his side and his limbs lock up.
> 
> As they both sink beneath the waves, the frog cries out, "Why did you sting me, Mr. Scorpion? For now we both will drown!"
> 
> And the scorpion replies, "I can't help it. It's in my nature."


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## dino deen

"a need to feel appreciated and included in some way"...which implies a need to be empathized with, but can someone who, well according to the books is a pure sociopath actaully feel this need? or is it an extreme form of narcissism?


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## The Wanderering ______

@*Jennywocky*
Was that short story meant for me?


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## Alice_Morgan

sdefrgthjkl what a brilliant show
the acting and the writing and the cinematography and the general atmosphere are all incredible 
definitely one of the best network series currently on air


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## 6007

I love this show, so happy it is getting a second season. I love Bryan Fuller, and Hannibal is a fine show. Visually stunning, excellent acting, costumes sets creativity... I love that Hannibal seems to be working to dismantle the FBI, playing games. I find him intriguing, and creepily amusing.


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## The Wanderering ______

violetblack said:


> I love this show, so happy it is getting a second season. I love Bryan Fuller, and Hannibal is a fine show. Visually stunning, excellent acting, costumes sets creativity... I love that Hannibal seems to be working to dismantle the FBI, playing games. I find him intriguing, and creepily amusing.


You sure have see a lot of aspects in this show. I wish I could. 

The password is.........ENVY!!!!!!!!:frustrating:


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## Vianna

Both Graham and Lecter are Ni domminant types. You can see how their minds work with imagination, details and the context is flashing in their heads are perfectly drown images. I think Lecter is an INTJ, while Graham is an INFJ, but might appear more as T due to his social psychological problems, but he is for sure an empathic feeler.


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## The Wanderering ______

endlessnameless said:


> Graham is an INFJ, but might appear more as T due to his social psychological problems, but he is for sure an empathic feeler.


Graham doesn't appear T at all. He seems super Intuitive dom to me.


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## Griffith

A Little Bit of Cheeze said:


> I think I change my mind on Will's being an INFJ. I suspected after around episode 3/4 that something was just not sitting right with him in that category. Disregarding the extreme empathy (which was why I suspected INFJ in the first place), he seems much too sure of himself in a way I only usually see in INFPs. He knows himself in a way that I only see in Fi users. It's like they know themselves deep down, but they stop themselves from knowing for the sake of their own sanity. Fe users know themselves and those around them, it seems as if there are no closed doors, or at least has been my experience.
> 
> Now, of course it would be hard to type a character like Will because of his abnormality, and maybe I just need some sleep and am overthinking it, but any thoughts?
> 
> And yesterday's episode was excellent. Hannibal can fight. Well, make that the day before last, at this hour.
> 
> Goodnight.


I agree with you on the Fi part, he's very likely Fi-dom or Ni-dom with Fi very close to being the dominant function.We INFJ are emotional, but we are highly sensitive to the external feeling context, the break of harmony, we hardly get in touch with our inner world of emotions.Things like Art, music, people trigger our emotions.And we are a slave to our introverted intuition, we don't get haunted by our feeling function.Graham is a total introverted and a loner, if he were INFJ, he'd totally repress his Fe and get stuck into some Ni-Ti paranoid mode, or express his Fe in the most negative way, by showing hatred and disatisfaction with the world, for example(when I'm sick, I do behave much more like Lisbeth Salander from Millenium movie).
I don't see Ne in graham's way of thinking.He seems Fi-Ni but I can't see Se-aux or Te-aux in him neither.I guess he's just an unrealistic fictional character, and a theoretical example for the Fi-Ni/Ni-Fi loop.


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## Orchidion

In the last episode Hannibal´s psychiatrist insinuated to know about his true nature. I wonder to which extent she is aware of his deed. All in all a very well episode. I am looking forward to the next season.


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## Jennywocky

Orchidion said:


> In the last episode Hannibal´s psychiatrist insinuated to know about his true nature. I wonder to which extent she is aware of his deed. All in all a very well episode. I am looking forward to the next season.


Thought it was a great first season; the entire crew (director, set supervisors, actors, writers, etc.) should be commended for putting together a coherent and artistically done story. It could have been a TOTAL disaster, easily, but there were some brave choices made on casting and also on what to focus on. I think it worked.

I just have no idea where they're going next, and it doesn't help knowing the events of Red Dragon, so it's like I know the destination but have no idea how they would get there.

Lecter's such a bastard, though. I love the understated performance here, and the degree of self-control that is practiced.


* *




Sadly, I really liked Abigail. That was probably my only disappointment in the season ending, where it looks like that's the end.




Some great guest stars too, like Eddie Izzard and Gillian Anderson and Anna Chlumsky.



The Wanderering ______ said:


> Was that short story meant for me?




Hmmmm. I think it was.

I think it was in response to your question about why killers kill, and I had just watched The Crying Game.

sorry I missed that post.


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## araneae

One of my favorite shows. Love Hannibal and love her psychiatrist.

I seriously can't wait for season 2.


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## Nathania

It was better than I thought it would be.
Now if only we could have a series that takes place once him an Clarice fuck off to Italy at the end of the Hannibal book.


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## 68097

Love this series. It's grotesque, but a brilliant example of Ni playing off one another -- one using it for evil (Hannibal), the other using it for good (Will). Fascinating stuff, explores true evil. Terrific acting. I'm yearning for it to come back. I think the finale was one of the best things I've ever seen on television.


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## Callisto88

Does anyone know when the second season starts? I know 2014 but the exact date would be helpful.


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## 68097

Well, last season started in April, so I assume around the same time.


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## sjack

Just finished season 3 of The Wire:


* *




Was not expecting Skinner to get offed. I thought Avon was gonna be the one to go




Second half was better than the first. Now on to season 4.


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## A Little Bit of Cheeze

February 28, my friends. Bon appetit. 





Love when Hannibal gets a little rough.


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## 68097

My friends and I are so excited for Hannibal's return. Waiting a month feels like torture.


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## Orchidion

Just a few notes on the new season (so far the first two episodes).

I wished I had not eaten breakfest during the beginning of the 2nd episode. The scene, where the black guy rips himself free was incredibly graphic and intense.

When he finally jumped down and fell to his death, the camera provided a climpse of him amidst the other corpses that dwell there and subsequently get flushed down the river, we saw in the first episode. I laughed my ass off, when I realized how the bodies in the river are linked to this serial killer. This was hilarious. Oh, I am a sick fuck.

The staredown between Hannibal and his psychiatrist was near perfection. It distinctly reminded me of the staircase scene from Shining. Although she had the upper hand, as her insight into Hannibal gives her power, their interaction virtually seemed to imply the opposite. This part of the plot (Bedelia turning on Hannibal) will be intriguing.

The visual effects and camera work are a pleasure. Images, like Hannibals eye gazing at the ornament of carcasses are captivating and highly aestethical.

Hannibals plastic outfit makes him look like he intends to visit an 80s revival festival.

All in all I am dissatisfied with the 2nd season so far.


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## 68097

I agree, the first three minutes of this episode were horrific. I had to look away and I'm not squeamish at all usually. It's intended to make the audience completely uncomfortable throughout. I'm delighted with it, overall, though; I love the symbolism they have going on. 

_Hannibal_ is brilliant in a multitude of ways, because it works on so many levels; it’s more than just a horror story, it’s a psychological and intellectual playground. Everyone can find a different complexity or subtlety; what helps this along is that Brian Fuller really does see Hannibal Lecter as an allegorical representation of the Devil (he's said so in interviews, since it removes realism and allows them to play with fantastical things). This manifests in the second episode, when in the end, the psychopath becomes a part of his own “painting.” Hannibal finishes the portrait – he builds off the evil the person committed on his own terms, and then makes him a part of it; Satan devouring a soul through its evil deeds, and then committing that soul to be eternally imprisoned within his own work – in a hell of his own making. 

It’s highly intelligent writing, so far on a level beyond anything else I've seen on television.


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## Lemxn

This show is just amazing. I was a little bit dissapoint with the lastest episodes of the first season but I gave it another chance. The second season started so good. 

I just love Will's mind, I find this character mind blowing.


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## Zombie Devil Duckie

> It distinctly reminded me of the staircase scene from Shining.


I picked that up as well. It was a very well done scene.




-ZDD


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## theredpanda

LOVE IT. I love Will Graham <3 He's amazing...and it's one of the few shows that can freak me out a bit...just- the whole aspect of cannibalism...I've always thought Hannibal Lecter was the creepiest fictional serial killer...I love it...


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## Jennywocky

it's a great show. 

What impresses me is that it basically took characters that were already immortalized by other actors and reinvented them for this show in a way that is believable and unique -- there's still a coherence there, but they aren't just rehashing what happened in SotL or the other movies. As good as Anthony Hopkins was as Lecter, Mikkelson really made the character his own. Fishburne's portrayal of Crawford is nothing like Glenn's portrayal, but it's also a type of character I don't often see much of in a TV show -- I have trouble grasping him but still see him as consistent, and so it intrigues me.

Of course Hugh Dancy is just incredible as Graham.

And some of their recurring guest stars (like Gillian Anderson or Cynthia Nixon) just do a great job -- different than the characters we knew them typecast as, and interesting in themselves.

I think the idea of using the food as a theme for the titles and as a centerpiece in each episode was sheer genius.

I finally caught up with this season last night, with the first trial ending up as a mistrial due to the judge being, uh, indisposed. Just so much is 'right' with the show. It manages to be visually and emotionally unsettling and less derivative of other shows than you'd expect; and Lecter has an interesting relationship with the other serial killers that show up from time to time (he's kind of a mentor figure that still you know eats his own young); and the whole bit where Will projects into the killer is handled perfectly from a dramatic and artistic POV.
@angelcat: yes, yes, yes on your description of Lecter here. And how he actually makes the "artist" thinks he WANTS to be part of his own piece of art, yet at the same time damning him for eternity.... his depravity has left him in hell as a natural outcome of his own choices and he doesn't even seem to realize it. It's just so masterful.


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## DollPart

After some time there's finally a good Tv show. Well written characters, interesting story line, and mystery with a drop of psycho and dark atmosphere. Just great!


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## Word Dispenser

On season 2, and I feel this may be the best TV series I've ever seen... I do tend to change my mind a lot, but I'm not often able to 'favourite' things.

A very interesting and squee tidbit: The elk motif-- Seeing the elk, and elk-man-- Is probably connected to the Algonquin mythology of the Wendigo-- Half elk, half man. What does it represent? Cannibalism. When you look it up, it seems too obvious, but I really appreciate it.

I remember having a fun and interesting conversation a long time ago about dreams, symbolism and universal archetypes. That humans all share certain archetypes in dreams that tend towards similar meanings.


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## Kazoo The Kid

I love how the show is not only physically disturbing but emotionally disturbing.

Hannibal just needs to get in a good comment and it strikes fear in your heart.


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## Northcrest

The ending of episode four season 2 really messed me up. I love the show though, and the creativity used for each murder is creeply enticing. I hope they can keep this streak of a fascinating series going.


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## Word Dispenser

Oooh.

About episode 4, season 2:


* *






The honey-woman seems like a random blip in the episode. She was cast very well, because she's very likeable in her sincerity and kindness. A willingness to help others, with brutal consequence.

As I was sorting this out, I realized it wasn't a random blip at all. If she isn't referenced again, she was playing a very integral and significant role. The theme of this episode was clearly around 'peace'.

Bella speaks with Hannibal about the suffering of her inevitable end, and clearly wants to do something about it. For peace. To give Jack a kind of peace. She knows that if she dies slowly and painfully, Jack will never forgive himself, and will never rest. _He _will never find peace. He holds out every hope at this time, that she will survive, but she knows she will not. Hannibal gives her the idea that death isn't a defeat, but a cure.

The honey woman is attempting to take away the pain of her patients. To 'cure' them.

The first, she took his comprehension of pain, and thus the pain itself. She perceives this as a way of giving peace. The other, he walks without a comprehension of pain, or, perhaps, of anything. Ignorance is bliss? 

Bella wishes to receive peace. The honey woman wishes to give it. Hannibal refuses Bella's peace-- I assume, because of the coin toss. Or maybe the coin toss was just something he was doing that bore no relevance to the situation. Kind of like a gambler just tossing a coin for the sake of it. But, he did look at the results of the toss. 

Interesting to think about. roud:

As a side note-- I hope Beverly Katz survived her encounter. But, at the same time... If she did, maybe she's enduring a fate worse than death, with no peace. :tongue:


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## eydimork

I didn't like the "new" Hannibal Lecter but I've learned to deal with it. I wonder for how long this series will sway between knowing what he is, and pretending that he isn't.

I hate it when corpses are dispensed for some reason so that one episode in season 1 with the wings in the barn really freaked me out.


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## Miss Bingley

Hey everyone - 
I'm new to the show, and was trying to figure out some MBTI types; thoughts? 

Hannibal - seems a shoe-in for INTJ, but I just read the most phenomenal article on him being an ENFJ that convinced me otherwise. 

Will - INTP or INFJ. I don't know, he just seems pretty socially awkward and damaged.

Alana - I've seen a lot of different ideas, from ISTJ to ESTJ, but I'm not sure if she's a sensor. I saw a post about her being an xNTJ that was really fascinating.


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## AriesLilith

melisanddre said:


> Hey everyone -
> I'm new to the show, and was trying to figure out some MBTI types; thoughts?
> 
> Hannibal - seems a shoe-in for INTJ, but I just read the most phenomenal article on him being an ENFJ that convinced me otherwise.
> 
> Will - INTP or INFJ. I don't know, he just seems pretty socially awkward and damaged.
> 
> Alana - I've seen a lot of different ideas, from ISTJ to ESTJ, but I'm not sure if she's a sensor. I saw a post about her being an xNTJ that was really fascinating.


Will is, IMO, definitely INFJ, he's definitely NiFe.


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## Griffith

I'm seeing Fe in Hannibal and Fi in Will Graham.Both are Ni/Se.Hannibal probably being INFJ and Will an INTJ.Very unusual versions of these types.


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## AriesLilith

Griffith said:


> I'm seeing Fe in Hannibal and Fi in Will Graham.Both are Ni/Se.Hannibal probably being INFJ and Will an INTJ.Very unusual versions of these types.


Hmm but Will's empathy is definitely Fe. Also, the empathy for people's (criminals') values is more Fe than Te.


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## 68097

Hannibal has no Fe. The way he constructs these immaculate plans months in advance is Ni-Te, all the way. He's a doer. A controller. A manipulator. Careful, calculating, ingenious, but undone by his Fi-values. He's a brilliantly written, psychopath of an INTJ.

Will his counter-measure, what Hannibal would and could be if he had Fe, an empath who can step out of his own head and feel the pain of others. He's the INFJ.

Alana, frankly, is too naive and led by her emotions to be dominant Te. EXFJ, and because she's so sensible and grounded in the moment, I'd say ESFJ.


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## Griffith

AriesLilith said:


> Hmm but Will's empathy is definitely Fe. Also, the empathy for people's (criminals') values is more Fe than Te.


At first, I also thought he was Fe because of the empathy skill.But it seems to me that Will takes on others feelings as his own, acting like a feeling sponge, rather than seeing them radiating through people and interacting with them like an extraverted would do(same happens with any extraverted function, informations are objects whereas the introverted function internalize them, informations become a part of the introverted subject, of his own world(an extension of his own body?)).Introverted feelers are known to empathize with individuals(the strangest/most original the better) rather than groups(outcasts are Fe's interest), cultures, collective feelings, mankind morals(the large scale that Fe operates on).

(these are just my guesses, do not hesitate to share your opinions.)


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## AriesLilith

Griffith said:


> At first, I also thought he was Fe because of the empathy skill.But it seems to me that Will takes on others feelings as his own, acting like a feeling sponge, rather than seeing them radiating through people and interacting with them like an extraverted would do(same happens with any extraverted function, informations are objects whereas the introverted function internalize them, informations become a part of the introverted subject, of his own world(an extension of his own body?)).Introverted feelers are known to empathize with individuals(the strangest/most original the better) rather than groups(outcasts are Fe's interest), cultures, collective feelings, mankind morals(the large scale that Fe operates on).
> 
> (these are just my guesses, do not hesitate to share your opinions.)


We are all taking guesses and it's interesting to read other perspectives. 

The problem with empathy is that at times the feelings can be so strong and we can start to get confused if what we feel is also part of us. INFJs seems to have this issue sometimes, yet an INFJ with a well developed Fi (a 4wing INFJ for example) can distinguish what is their own and what is from the others.
Although Will didn't seem confused about what he himself felt when he empathized with other people, he was more like being overwhelmed. Jack thought he was being confused but he was not, and he acted like he felt into the darkness in order to manipulate Hannibal.

Also, being an NiFe doesn't mean that there is necessarily a need to interact with others. Observation is also a way to get the information one needs to further analysis. Fe is more about collecting information from the outside to form one's own conclusions, there can be no direct interaction with others.
It can also be from each single individual aside of the collective values. What's Fe is to get information from others about their values and feelings.

Fi is more about our own value system and feelings, so when Fi empathizes it's more because the other person's values and feelings are aligned with the Fi person's values and feelings, and not as a "I am observing and understanding, empathizing what your values are and your feelings are". There is a very definite difference and Fe can basically be in different people's shoes while Fi is more of being able to be on other people's shoes if they are similar.


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## 68097

AriesLilith said:


> Fi is more about our own value system and feelings, so when Fi empathizes it's more because the other person's values and feelings are aligned with the Fi person's values and feelings, and not as a "I am observing and understanding, empathizing what your values are and your feelings are". There is a very definite difference and Fe can basically be in different people's shoes while Fi is more of being able to be on other people's shoes if they are similar.


This.

Will doesn't personally identify in any way with the psychopaths whose heads he gets into -- instead, BECOMING them changes HIM. That would never happen with a Fi-user. They remain the same, no matter what. Their values are incorruptible. Will's values start to change. He tries to back out of doing this line of work, because he knows what it's doing to him -- and is sucked back into it, because of his Fe-need to please his boss. His Fe makes him susceptible to experiencing the anger, emotions, and darkness of the people whose heads he climbs into. I've done that -- and it's scary. Stepping in someone else's head, taking on their emotions as your own, to the point where you can't separate YOUR emotions from theirs? It's... indescribable. Freaky as hell. 

Contrast Hannibal and Will. One uses Fe, the other doesn't. Which remains the same, holding true to his Fi-values? Who makes clear cut decisions? Who doesn't compromise? It ain't Will.


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## Swordsman of Mana

The Wanderering ______ said:


> From my Signi
> Will Graham INFJ 6w5,9w8 naybe 4w5 image fix, he seems very 4ish but IDK it could just be his superior intuition haunting him that makes me think 4w5.


yes!



> Hannibal Lecter is totally INTJ 5w6, 3w4, 8w9. Totally the "Triple Strategic" archetype fits him well.


I'm not sure if 5w6 or 8w9 is first, but tritype and MBTI seem right (maybe Sp/Sx?).


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## EonsInTheNight

Swordsman of Mana said:


> yes!
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if 5w6 or 8w9 is first, but tritype and MBTI seem right (maybe Sp/Sx?).


sp/sx? Dude's a charmer, he's* sx/so*; he's nothing like how a INTJ sp/sx would look like. Will is likely sp/sx. I find 5w6 or 8w9 pretty off as well, he's either image driven (*3*) or a curious aesthete (*5w4*).


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