# Lack of duals and depression



## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

I read from somewhere that people who lacked duals in their life are more inclined to be depressed as compared to people who are surrounded by duals in their lives. In other words, people with duals in their lives are more inclined to be emotionally stable, hence, less prone to depression.
So for those who have a hard time meeting your duals, how do you cope with depression?

I supposed it would help too if one can meet someone who is strong in using their dual-seeking function, such as your semi-dual/activator/benefactor, but what if you have a hard time meeting them too?


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

I've done some volunteering work at a dogs shelter before, but I'm still depressed. 

The 9-5 rat race is just too depressing for me. I'm wasting 40 hours a week doing things I hardly care about, when I could actually use those time to contribute to humanity and help needy people instead. 

It seems like the only time I'm able to be happy is when I'm watching videos of people in heaven. I feel so out of place in this world. I've been struggling so much lately. And I'm glad to know that you managed to find something that works for your depression. 
Currently I've been trying out some meditation exercises, but those seems to only work for awhile, and then I'm back to my depressive state again. 

Anyway, I think I'll try your method of keeping myself busy and see how it goes. Thanks for your advice btw


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

Haha I seriously doubt that. According to socionics tests I'm ENFp or INFj, and both my parents are supposedly my duals and our relationship was in large part conductive to _creating_ my depression/anxieties rather than help them. Because they had no clue how to support me, or even that something was wrong to begin with, when I was a kid. I felt I couldn't communicate with them effectively and I was emotionally neglected, not out of malice but simply because they couldn't fulfill my emotional and intellectual needs. And I still to this day struggle with some remaining effects of their attitudes.

Socionics type dynamics seem to seriously lack validity.

You should go for therapy imo.


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## DeadOutside (Mar 2, 2018)

I think duals are bs tbh


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Red Panda said:


> Haha I seriously doubt that. According to socionics tests I'm ENFp or INFj, and both my parents are supposedly my duals and our relationship was in large part conductive to _creating_ my depression/anxieties rather than help them. Because they had no clue how to support me, or even that something was wrong to begin with, when I was a kid. I felt I couldn't communicate with them effectively and I was emotionally neglected, not out of malice but simply because they couldn't fulfill my emotional and intellectual needs. And I still to this day struggle with some remaining effects of their attitudes.
> 
> Socionics type dynamics seem to seriously lack validity.
> 
> You should go for therapy imo.


I've seen you around this forum before. You have always strike me as INFj. ISFj could be possible too. Ij temperament and Fi base.
I don't think ENFp, because I have met a few irl and also online, and I always clashed with them. I don't get along with Ne base. :/ 
Sorry to hear about your clashing with your parents, I don't get along with my parents either, I wonder if ages might play a part in this too. Having huge generation gap would make it difficult for two people to have common topics to talk about, regardless of their type. I haven't had the chance to test this theory for duals yet, but I have tested this theory for beneficiary relations. My mom is an ISFj, and I had an ex-friend of mine who is also an ISFj. Both of them are very similar, having strong likes/dislikes about people and things and also quite opinionated and stubborn and fiery-tempered. Despite how both of them share similar types, I actually get along a lot better with my ex-friend than my mom, my ex-friend is only a year older than me, so I have more common topics to talk about with my ex-friend than with my mom. With my ex-friend, we will spend most of our time talking about boys and crushes and relationships. With my mom, she will spend most of her time nagging me about the way I spend my money, and she also wants me to quickly find a boyfriend and settle down and get married soon. 

Oh, and I have gone to therapy too but it doesn't work for me. :/


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## BenevolentBitterBleeding (Mar 16, 2015)

Schizoid said:


> I've done some volunteering work at a dogs shelter before, but I'm still depressed.


You should volunteer at places that (in)directly help other humans, where there's more human contact; or none at all, so that you process/imagine the benefits on your own.



> The 9-5 rat race is just too depressing for me. I'm wasting 40 hours a week doing things I hardly care about, when I could actually use those time to contribute to humanity and help needy people instead.


I used to and still _do_ think the same thing almost daily about it being a depressing rat race; but I try to reframe to more of a, how am I improving certain characteristics of myself that were so severely lacking prior; and how can I help lessen the burden for those that tend to support me through thick and thin. I can't really help anybody if I can't help myself; and helping myself isn't as simple as meeting my daily needs, but also future proofing to whatever gen x age.



> It seems like the only time I'm able to be happy is when I'm watching videos of people in heaven.


When I first read this, I was like whutt??? How to watch heaven people?! BTW out of nowhere, if it's cool with you, I have this video I'd like to be translated that I think you might be able to help with... up for charity? Muh condescending advice does not come without a price!



> I feel so out of place in this world. I've been struggling so much lately.


There's a thread recently about how you/we make big decisions - that I didn't post in; but aside from some forms of reasoning, I seem to make some decisions if they're supported by unexplained coincidences. Sometimes things line up too well that I think something is trying to get my attention. Maybe you should stop focusing on how out of place you are, and instead start specifically asking for what it is you want. Maybe then your brain will start to recognize when those things seem to present themselves either directly or in periphery. Opposed to the opposite of garbage in, garbage out. i.e. garbage out, garbage in..._.



> Currently I've been trying out some meditation exercises, but those seems to only work for awhile, and then I'm back to my depressive state again.


I found things like that to be good for relaxing short term, or to know that it's at your disposal when needed at any moment; like if something's triggering you. But at the same time, I think there might be side effects of deep meditation that will fuck with your mind/perspective of the world. 



> Anyway, I think I'll try your method of keeping myself busy and see how it goes. Thanks for your advice btw


No worries. If you don't mind can you edit your post to delete my quoted message, and could you not quote this in its entirety either? tnx.x


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

I guess I can try volunteering at places with humans too, although my main reason for volunteering at the dogs shelter is because animals reminds me so much of purity, the type of purity that can't be found in this corrupted world out there.
Although I like people, but I like animals much more, because they have a sort of innocence in them that can't be found in humans.
When I'm around animals, I don't have to worry about them plotting murders on how to kill me.

As for asking for what I want, well there is one thing that I find myself craving most, and it's deep connections with people. I'm on the autism spectrum and I often struggle a lot in social situations, but I have basic human needs too such as my need for deep connections with people. But how does one ask this from people? Whenever I meet someone, I'd like to form a deep connection with them, but people aren't interested to get to know me. Other than accepting my fate, what else can I do? If I meet someone new and I tell them this, "Hey, I'd like to become close friends with you!", hearing this from me would only scare them away, so I won't be able to tell them this. I can only hang out with them and wait for those connections to develop, but the sad thing is, society tend to dislike shy and reserved people because they are so uninteresting, so being the uninteresting person I am, most people tend to lose interest in me and stopped hanging out with me after awhile. There are always people who are more outgoing than me and more louder than me, and because I'm not as outgoing and loud as them, I tend to fade into the background a lot.

And the videos about watching people in heaven, I was referring to the afterlife, the place where humans go to after death. xD
Life on earth is filled with suffering, but life on heaven on the other hand, it's such a nice place. No suffering at all, only lots of peace and happiness. Although I'm currently on earth, but I often daydreamed life on heaven. I should probably live more on planet earth, but I don't know, the afterlife is too appealing for me and I can't stop thinking about it. 
Oh, and which video do you need my help in translating? I'll see if I can help you translate it. ^^
There's no free labor in this world, and since you've taken the time to help me out with my issues, it's only fair for me to do some charity work in return, heh. Where's the video??


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Schizoid said:


> I've done some volunteering work at a dogs shelter before, but I'm still depressed.
> 
> The 9-5 rat race is just too depressing for me. I'm wasting 40 hours a week doing things I hardly care about, when I could actually use those time to contribute to humanity and help needy people instead.
> 
> ...


Go back to school or get another job. This has nothing to do with "duals" this is you realizing your own mortality and that you're wasting your life serving a capitalist system rather than your true beliefs. Go with something that serves your true beliefs, even if it is a volunteer work at first, get out of your job whatever that looks like. 

Sometimes extreme unhappiness, like physical pain, means something should immediately change. It's not always "let me meditate out of this." Our society is absurd in conditioning to humans to an unnatural capitalist hell, like you're weird or crazy if you don't like it. Wake up. The more of us that do, the more unstable the system will become.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Schizoid said:


> I guess I can try volunteering at places with humans too, although my main reason for volunteering at the dogs shelter is because animals reminds me so much of purity, the type of purity that can't be found in this corrupted world out there.
> Although I like people, but I like animals much more, because they have a sort of innocence in them that can't be found in humans.
> When I'm around animals, I don't have to worry about them plotting murders on how to kill me.
> 
> ...


If animals remind you of purity, have you considered becoming vegetarian or vegan? It can be a life changing spiritual experience for some individuals.


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## Forest Nymph (Aug 25, 2018)

Red Panda said:


> Haha I seriously doubt that. According to socionics tests I'm ENFp or INFj, and both my parents are supposedly my duals and our relationship was in large part conductive to _creating_ my depression/anxieties rather than help them. Because they had no clue how to support me, or even that something was wrong to begin with, when I was a kid. I felt I couldn't communicate with them effectively and I was emotionally neglected, not out of malice but simply because they couldn't fulfill my emotional and intellectual needs. And I still to this day struggle with some remaining effects of their attitudes.
> 
> Socionics type dynamics seem to seriously lack validity.
> 
> You should go for therapy imo.


I had a similar experience. I was raised by people strong in Te while I was strong in Fi, even if we weren't exact duals. This actually caused a lot of damage which I will whole-heartedly admit has made me a lot more "interesting" than some of my peers, and I even love these creepy effing people for what they taught me, the world they showed me, I'm so thankful some days not to be a Basic that alone is enough to be happy to be alive....but on the other hand because of Te I spend most of my childhood feeling "safe" and "righteous" and now in my adulthood unfortunately I feel like I chase "safe" and "righteous" which eludes me. I also felt especially judged during my teens, not that anyone's teens are great, but my god I was actually made out to be some kind of crazed sinner by my grandparents, my mother was really amazed, like you were pretty much a good student and a nice girl. That's what I mean by them making me "interesting" but also really making me "miserable." Who are these strangers who made me feel so protected in my childhood? They certainly aren't people who understand me. But my mother doesn't really understand me either, she is more permissive and accepting, but she's also more unsafe and unintentionally dishonest - delusional. 

I think depression is more connected to unfulfilled expression of self than lack of reflection in other people.


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

My dual is supposed to be SEE? Yeah, I can do without them.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

Forest Nymph said:


> If animals remind you of purity, have you considered becoming vegetarian or vegan? It can be a life changing spiritual experience for some individuals.


I've tried the vegetarian lifestyle before but I noticed myself losing weight after going for the vegetarian lifestyle. 
If not for the fact that I'm currently underweight and I've been trying to gain weight, I would have continued with that lifestyle. 
I might try going for this lifestyle again after I managed to reach my ideal weight. But yeah, I think vegetarian lifestyle might fit me better, given how I always have a soft spot for animals, and it also makes me feel like a better person by not eating those animals. 




Ocean Helm said:


> My dual is supposed to be SEE? Yeah, I can do without them.


Are you sure you can do without them? SEEs are such sexy charismatic people. Although I'm not ILI but I find Elvis Presley sexy as hell. My ideal husband would be someone like him, sexy and charismatic. He just needs to walk into the room and everybody in the room will be charmed away by him. Darn I'll feel so lucky if I can be the wife of this kind of guy. He has dozens of admirers but of all the women he chooses me.


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## richard nixon (Sep 14, 2017)

Like someone else said, duals are BS (unless subtype makes a huge difference). A lot of ILEs have stable marriages with ESIs and ILIs.


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## The Veteran (Oct 24, 2018)

richard nixon said:


> Like someone else said, duals are ** (unless subtype makes a huge difference). A lot of ILEs have stable marriages with ESIs and ILIs.


That someone is actually right.


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## Schizoid (Jan 31, 2015)

richard nixon said:


> Like someone else said, duals are BS (unless subtype makes a huge difference). A lot of ILEs have stable marriages with ESIs and ILIs.


Lol you should ask the ESI on how they feel about their marriage with the ILE. Stable marriage doesn't always mean it's a happy marriage. And based on the couples I observed irl, duality seemed to apply to them. I'll give an example here of a dual vs a non-dual pairing that I've observed irl. 

My dad is an ILI and my mom is an ESI. Both of them share a close friendship with each other so they have a workable marriage, but it wasn't exactly a very happy marriage. My ESI mom often expects my ILI dad to act like her dual, so she would often nitpick him all the time. And my ILI dad would often get annoyed at her for "grumbling" at him all the time, lol. 

My brother and his wife on the other hand, he is an ILI while she is an SEE, both of them are best friends and lovers with each other. During their wedding 2 years ago, the host actually commented about how they are one of those rare couples who are so loving with each other and are constantly holding hands with each other throughout the entire wedding. 
And even after getting married, they continued to be really loving with each other. Whenever I see both of them together, they are always whispering to each other and bickering with each other (in a playful manner) and laughing with each other. They seemed to have so much fun with each other. 

I'm yet to see my ILI dad and ESI mom whispering and laughing with each other. Despite how both of them have a stable and workable marriage, their marriage just doesn't work this way. My ESI mom mentioned that immediately after marriage, my ILI dad seems to have become a changed person. He started spending less time with her, he became less romantic with her, and he also started becoming a workaholic and focusing all his attention on work. 
And do you know how my ESI mom replied when I asked her about her marriage with my ILI dad? She said that if given a 2nd chance, she wouldn't want to marry him at all. So yeah, despite how their marriage looked "stable" on the outside and has managed to last for 40+ years, deep down they were actually quite unhappy with each other.


P/S: Seeing the happy marriage between my brother and my sis-in-law is also the reason why I believed in duality.


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

Schizoid said:


> Are you sure you can do without them? SEEs are such sexy charismatic people. Although I'm not ILI but I find Elvis Presley sexy as hell. My ideal husband would be someone like him, sexy and charismatic. He just needs to walk into the room and everybody in the room will be charmed away by him. Darn I'll feel so lucky if I can be the wife of this kind of guy. He has dozens of admirers but of all the women he chooses me.


The way they are described in Socionics they are really forceful and controlling which both are a no-go for me. For a while it may work out alright but I need my space and someone like that can be just too overbearing.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

Maybe your mistyped. How are you INTP and INTp? Shouldn’t you be LII? That makes your dual ESE
how does duality work in mbti? Is it opposite-opposite for every letter? How do you convert?
edit: never mind...just did a lot of reading. The functions seem to be defined differently in socionics...


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## Ocean Helm (Aug 25, 2016)

sandcastle35 said:


> Maybe your mistyped. How are you INTP and INTp? Shouldn’t you be LII? That makes your dual ESE
> how does duality work in mbti? Is it opposite-opposite for every letter? How do you convert?


I can't relate to LII much at all. Socionics and MBTI are way different and INTP is actually closest to INTp by a mile, just read the descriptions. Also ESE isn't any better, maybe worse.

The dual conversion is reversing the first 3 Socionics letters so INTp is ESFp, etc. and doesn't exist in MBTI although people have tried to import it.


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Relationships affect your mental state and even your health. In socionics conflict relations are really bad when the relationship becomes a close one. Being with a person you don't get along with will obviously stress you out and stress is bad for your health in general. Duality is the opposite and socionics claims that being with your dual will make you a healthier person with less fears in life. 

In psychology this is generally true with ideas such as the attachment theory, where people who had "insecure" relationships with their parents had a higher rate of developing health problems in their later life. Socionics looks at ITR the same way, probably because the theory was created by ILE's, where Si is the dual seeking function.

Depression is generally when you are missing something in your life, such as healthy relationships/connections, but it could also be stress. In the socionics theory the causes of stress and anxiety will be your PoLR / vulnerable function being under constant pressure. I suppose the absence of a supervisor or dual will make this worse.


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## Anunnaki Spirit (Mar 23, 2018)

Relationships for the sake of it to fill a void is not only a mistake but a ruinous one, as for finding meaning and purpose in life you know it like the back of your hand that to be a normie in the 9 to 5 rat race isn't going to work. I am in the same shoes so to speak but in some ways given up knowing that for people our age this world is fucked and that a normal proper happy life isn't going to happen like it had done for the prior generations. At least there is hope that on the other side everything is going to be ok.


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