# Is this tendency indicative of a specific function?



## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@DOGSOUP yeah.. I wasn't trying to type the author - I couldn't give two shits about that - the writing in the OP is just clearly Si.

We all use every function, every day, imo.


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## Liove (Sep 16, 2017)

spaceynyc said:


> @Liove this what I assumed OP meant, so that's why I jumped and said Ni. association and prediction, no kind of sensation really.


DOGSOUP is disregarding the Ni interpretation based on the assumption that Mez is a mistyped ISFJ.


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## Liove (Sep 16, 2017)

Drecon said:


> Don't know about functions but I do know that I do this all the time. Even going so far as to have a gut response if I feel like the picture contradicts my view of the person's type. I immediately assume they're mistyped. After that reason can start to take over, but I've noticed myself doing it consistently, even though I'm aware of doing it and often being wrong. It's kind of weird to be honest.


Same.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

@Mez

What sort of person does my avatar lead you to think about me? What sort of person is Turi, based just on his avatar? 

I'm just wondering if you have the same impressions of avatars as I do (using Turi as an example) and I wonder how I come off to you.

From your avatar, you come off to me as being mysterious, introverted, and relationship-focused. I imagine you must like watching people and would make a very good counselor.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Just did a test on similarminds, just felt like doing it since people started going astray from F.



> Te (Extroverted Thinking) (65%)
> your valuation of / adherence to logic of external systems / hierarchies / methods
> 
> Ti (Introverted Thinking) (70%)
> ...


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

Of course you will return INFJ results, they're what you wanted.


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## Liove (Sep 16, 2017)

Mez said:


> Just did a test on similarminds, just felt like doing it since people started going astray from F.


Next time, make sure you test higher for Se than Si.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> @Mez
> 
> What sort of person does my avatar lead you to think about me? What sort of person is Turi, based just on his avatar?
> 
> I'm just wondering if you have the same impressions of avatars as I do (using Turi as an example) and I wonder how I come off to you.


*Train of thought:*

You're wearing a mask, hence I can't tell what your face is saying or feeling. Thus I must focus on other cues in your image to develop some kind of impression. The mask itself feels expressionless, same as the face of any bird would be. (although maybe not any bird, eagles seem rather aggressive for example)
The fact that you're dressed in all black, and even your neck is covered implies a very tempting mystery about you. Tempting because it could be hiding a 1.) dangerous contagious illness that is evident through a skin rash or 2.) a tattoo that is indicative of your affiliation to some group or past (maybe a criminal ring, or maybe you were a prisoner)
Then again, it is the clothing of a plague doctor, so everything makes sense if we just go with that interpretation. But then again, the plague is long gone, yet you're still wearing that suit, hence there must be some other purpose for it. Heck, for all I know you could also just be a killer hiding his identity like that.
The crows flying past you just, for some weird reason, makes me think they're somehow linked to your abilities or identity. I once created a story in which a girl had the ability to control flocks of birds (or crows specifically), and use that as her weapon. So remembering that idea, I am kind of inclined to believe that you are able to control crows.
Your ability to control crows, aside from being supernatural, has to somehow be linked to your personality. Whomever has such a power must really be attracted to gothic/dark themes. For what reason? Well, maybe you were a king or a prince who was overthrown and forced into hiding. Your ability to control crows represents a corrupted version of your "monarchial" nature. (as you were controlling people in the past, people have rejected you, so you've opted for controlling very grim-looking birds instead)

*General impression:* A very detached/aloof person who has a lot of interesting things to say. Has either some secrets or talents which he won't readily display, but is interesting precisely because he has them and because he hides them.

(ok "she", although I am refering to the person in the avatar who's likely a guy)



brightflashes said:


> I imagine you must like watching people and would make a very good counselor.


This is what a lot of people tend to tell me. Plus, they always run to me for advice, even if I'm not experienced in whatever situation they're having trouble with. I tend to put my best effort into giving as informative and useful advice as possible, since I always feel oblidged to do so. But when people start seeking out my advice often and ask me to get into all the details, I start feeling slightly overburdened with responsibility, because if the person trusts me and my advice so much, there's a large chance he might just blindly follow my speculations, and that could potentially lead him into unintended trouble. Just as every professional doctor must admit that he "doesn't know" when he doesn't know what's wrong with the patient, I as an amateur "counselor" start worrying for the future well-being of whomever I'm counseling.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Liove said:


> DOGSOUP is disregarding the Ni interpretation based on the assumption that Mez is a mistyped ISFJ.


Lol no, please re-read my post #19 in this thread instead of misrepresenting my point. I do hate it when that happens.


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## Liove (Sep 16, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> Lol no, please re-read my post #19 in this thread instead of misrepresenting my point. I do hate it when that happens.


That's not very convincing. You don't want to take responsibility that's why you deferred to someone else.

What is your interpretation of Ni?


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Mez said:


> *Train of thought:*
> 
> 
> * *
> ...


I like your interpretation of it. The reason I selected it is that I'm fascinated with Yersinia Pestis, which is the virus that calls all three strains of plague. I find plague doctors to be very empowering, fearless people who were willing to sacrifice themselves just to make another person more comfortable in the face of their own death. So plague doctors are comforting and heroic in my mind. They're also fearless, curious, and must have a very intimate relationship with death. 

I picked this specific image because the crows in it reminds me of my favorite Druid goddess, Morrigan who helps people to transition from life to death. 

I think my fascination with plague comes from my experience with excessive death in my childhood and young adulthood (two of my best friends and my brother died all in three separate instances by the time I was 16). I also would love to get a grant to study Y Pestis as it has a very real chance of coming back and I have an idea that bacteriophage may be a better candidate to treat Y Pestis given that some strains off of Madagascar have shown to be resistant to antibiotics.

In all, my icon appeals to me for the following reasons:
The mystery of death
Religious icons which are meaningful to me
History
Scientific investigation
The heroic figure

And, I fully believe had I lived during a time of mass plague outbreak, I would have wanted to be a plague doctor.


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## Bunniculla (Jul 17, 2017)

I don't judge a person's character based on avatar...simply not enough information. I get a glimpse into what the avatar is trying to tell the world about that person though.

For example, you like mysterious, dark, noble theme. Vampire Knight. Perhaps you are a person that enjoys luxury and contemplating dark, mysterious subjects. Perhaps you appreciate the quietly protective, possessive relationship between Yuki and Kaname.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Liove said:


> That's not very convincing. You don't want to take responsibility that's why you deferred to someone else.
> 
> What is your interpretation of Ni?


I do not owe you an explanation - I do not do typology for a living. I do not live to convice all the INTJs that make such requests.

I simply combined Turi's ideas with mine as it seems that was a fruitful way to progess the conversation and seemed the most applicable to the situation at hand. You misread my comments if you think I claim the OP is mistyped. You also misread it if you think I am "deferring" to someone else. Reading compherension is vital here.

My idea of Ni is that it is connected to passing of time. Nothing concrete, particularly useful or directly observable. Rather it is an inborn ability to understand certain things minus the ability to rationally explain it .


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> I find plague doctors to be very empowering, fearless people who were willing to sacrifice themselves just to make another person more comfortable in the face of their own death. So plague doctors are comforting and heroic in my mind. They're also fearless, curious, and must have a very intimate relationship with death.


He/she does seem powerful in your picture. However, no matter how much I look at it, I just feel a "bad ending" in the making. As in, really meeting the person in your avatar could be quite interesting, but I also feel that by doing so I'd soon end up dying. So I would by all means avoid him, even if I would be 100% certain that I am meeting him under completely safe circumstances. He just signals my death to me no matter the facts.



brightflashes said:


> In all, my icon appeals to me for the following reasons:
> The mystery of death
> Religious icons which are meaningful to me
> History
> ...


I'm the type of person who would divert his path to school or work just because it was crossed by a black cat. Logically/factually I understand that it's pointless, but my brain just keeps sounding alarm signals "what if it isn't pointless?". Just take a different pathway as a safety measure, it won't take too much of your time.

Hence because of the above mentioned paranoias, I would stay clear of anything that signifies death, even if it's just in my avatar. Whatever I put into my avatar has to either represent the current me, the better me, the future me, the hopeful me or the ideal me (or my interests), none of which should in any way be threatening to me.


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## Liove (Sep 16, 2017)

DOGSOUP said:


> You also misread it if you think I am "deferring" to someone else. Reading compherension is vital here.
> 
> 
> DOGSOUP said:
> ...


I'm reading that pretty clearly.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Bunniculla said:


> I don't judge a person's character based on avatar...simply not enough information. I get a glimpse into what the avatar is trying to tell the world about that person though.
> 
> For example, you like mysterious, dark, noble theme. Vampire Knight. Perhaps you are a person that enjoys luxury and contemplating dark, mysterious subjects.


Your analysis is quite close.
By priority, from most to least: noble themes, mysterious themes, dark themes.
By this I don't mean that I dislike dark themes, I like them a lot, especially those that showcase the dark aspects of human nature (like i.e. how Lelouch went from righteous hero to self-absorbed murderer, as well as when he accidentally forced Euphemia to murder an entire stadium of people).
My priority list was just to showcase the hierarchy in which I pursue the themes you've mentioned.

Yes I enjoy luxury very much. Not sure if it's a personal trait or something my parents taught me to do. But luxury is comprised of very valuable/reliable/beautiful things, and in those things I find comfort. I can't say I'm a materialist for materialistic purposes, I simply seek to have the best of everything that I can have in life, because "the best" and "the beautiful" tends to feel reassuring, it protects me, solidifies/strengthens my world.

As for contemplating dark subjects - well, I guess "dark" may be a subjective matter. While I'm convinced that I'm a very bright happy optimist, others might sometimes view my world as too grim or scary. So from a subjective point of view - I'm not into dark stuff. But from an objective point of view - probably very much maybe.
Contemplating mysertious subjects? - hidden meanings, symbolisms and symbols, potential parts of human history that were erased by those who kept records of it, hidden societies or agendas - yes, quite often probably.



Bunniculla said:


> Perhaps you appreciate the quietly protective, possessive relationship between Yuki and Kaname.


Hmmm. I do appreciate the quietly protective relationship between them. But I'm not so much for the possessive side of things. I don't really like Kaname as a character, but I like the way he treats Yuki. Their whole relationship just feels *properly* reserved, *properly* subtle and understated, yet also *properly* tempting. I don't see any proper chemistry between them, Zero would fit into Yuki's life far better. But Kaname's way of just dealing with the situation seems honorable and dignified enough, that I can respect him and could potentially even want to imitate him to a degree.

Lastly, I chose this picture because of how Yuki is represented in it: confident, business-like, feminine, strong yet fragile, formal. Kaname compliments her personality with his clothing style.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

I do this a lot. Depending on someone's avatar, I don't even read the post. I just don't see the point, not going to waste my time. If you have sexually suggestive avatars, for example, be it real people or anime/cartoon, I will page you as inconsiderate towards other users of this site. From my perspective, someone should keep their fetishes to themselves, not put it on their avatar picture.

To each their own, though. I don't force anyone to change avatars, I don't harass anyone for having an avatar or another. I just ignore them.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Turi said:


> This is a focus on _subjective impressions_. It's *Si*. Beyond any doubt.
> 
> I don't believe it's combined with a feeling function at all, rather I believe the subjective impressions you're receiving are altering your perceptions as to what it is you're dealing with, and you respond accordingly - entirely Si, no J function to speak of in the OP.


I agree with you, but couldn't it be Ni as well? I didn't read the whole thread, so point me to your post if you already elaborated on this.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@Mez - your "train of thought" regarding @brightflashes request is exactly - I repeat - _exactly_ aligned with not only Jungs descriptions of Si types but also how he sees extraverted intuition in relation to them.

I'm telling you guys, this is the truth.
It is definitely, beyond any doubt, Si.

And seeing people stumble over it, mistaking it for Ni, is a beautiful thing as it exposes the complete lack of respect and understanding of Jungs theory that runs rampant amongst the community.

I promise you, it is Si.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Well, I definitely don't understand the theory all that well, which is why I am asking why it has to be Si and not Ni.

A promise doesn't mean anything, I would be glad to know why, in details, it is Si.


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## Igor (May 26, 2010)

Huh, truth be told I personally only notice a person's avatar if it's something that is like "aah!" and jumps out at me, or if someone I know fairly well who decides to change their pic, but that's usually well after the fact that they've done so. Beyond that, I don't even really realize they're even there. For whatever any of that is worth.


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## Knave (Sep 9, 2017)

Turi said:


> @Mez - your "train of thought" regarding @brightflashes request is exactly - I repeat - _exactly_ aligned with not only Jungs descriptions of Si types but also how he sees extraverted intuition in relation to them.
> 
> I'm telling you guys, this is the truth.
> It is definitely, beyond any doubt, Si.
> ...


I'd have to agree with Turi here on some levels, to judge someone by their avatar would seem to relate to a sense impression, a preconceived leap that derives from a stored impression, and I'd say it would come from Si-Ne over Ne-Si, as a Ne user would have many interpretations from said avatar. 

In terms of Ni doing this, I think we need more Ni doms to chime in, but I'd be curious to see how many members actually completely disregard a stranger's opinion based on their avatar. That seems quite shallow and extremely judgemental to say the least.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

@brightflashes sorry I kind of ripped out pieces from your previous reply and narrow-mindedly focused just on my interpretation of your avatar. I simply got so sucked into the experiences/imagery/ideas your avatar generated, I went into a sort of tunnel-vision.

What you describe is deeply personal and tragic. And I don't even know what to say in response. I hope you do manage to get into your desired field of academics, as it would be quite fulfilling and life-asserting for you to challenge and battle the very beast that took away those close to you. 

And I think my interpretation of you controling crows kind of fits the general idea of what you said. You somewhat intend to dominate and control death, and crows being symbolic of death fits that intention like a glove.

I like the amount of depth you've put into your avatar. I wouldn't have the patience for that. What you've done in regard to your chosen image online, is very similar to what I'm doing with my heraldic project. I've met a very talented heraldry artist, and spent roughly 3 whole years designing an idea for my personal coat of arms. I'm not doing this to show it off or to pretend to be aristocracy, I simply felt like my life won't be complete unless I manage to create a perfect (classical) symbol/picture that would perfectly represent everything I am and everything I want to become. I've been working almost daily on my CoA with him whilst I was studying in university. And I could confidently say that the total amount of hours and effort I've poured into this project is larger than the total amount of effort I've put into my entire degree. I thought about and worked on the project on/off, for at least 5 hours every single day (or night), for 3+ years straight. I understood that including every single aspect of my life or philosophy individually would just create a huge ugly mess, hence I tried to dig deep to find the most simplified "essence" that would represent everything I want it to, without at all being very specific about anything, yet still creating the correct impression in everyone who sees it. And those who would seek to "unravel" that symbol in depth as though a ball of yarn, would automatically arrive at all of the correct details I sought to include but couldn't.

The final image was a surrealistic allegory: a winged black panther walking atop of a golden sword blade.
The allegory is as simple as it can get, yet also extremely unique which separates it from stereotypical heraldic imagery. It doesn't say anything at face value, but creates all of the necessary prerequisites that will guide anyone in the right direction if they seek to interpret it. People will reach all of the necessary details and conclusons if they wish to do so, as the allegory won't lead them astray.
We (me and the artist) are currently approaching the long-awaited conclusion of the project, and hopefully the 3-year borne and labored symbol will finally be finished.


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## Reila (Jan 17, 2017)

Knave said:


> I'd have to agree with Turi here on some levels, to judge someone by their avatar would seem to relate to a sense impression, a preconceived leap that derives from a stored impression, and I'd say it would come from Si-Ne over Ne-Si, as a Ne user would have many interpretations from said avatar.
> 
> In terms of Ni doing this, I think we need more Ni doms to chime in, but I'd be curious to see how many members actually completely disregard a stranger's opinion based on their avatar. That seems quite shallow and extremely judgemental to say the least.


It is definitely judgmental. Shallow? That is your subjective opinion on it. By the way, choosing certain kinds of picture for an avatar is extremely rude and inconsiderate towards others. There are plenty of ways of interpreting the situation.


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## Knave (Sep 9, 2017)

Hugging Wabbits said:


> It is definitely judgmental. Shallow? That is your subjective opinion on it. *By the way, choosing certain kinds of picture for an avatar is extremely rude and inconsiderate towards others.* There are plenty of ways of interpreting the situation.


That's also a very subjective statement. If you take offense to someone else's avatar that's on you, and the interpretation that you assume. Any avatar can come across as distasteful or rude from the appropriate perspective, but that perspective could conceivably be far different from the intention. I think to completely rule somebody out by an avatar lacks perspective, and I highly doubt a Ni-dom would lack perspective to that degree.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Knave said:


> I'd have to agree with Turi here on some levels, to judge someone by their avatar would seem to relate to a sense impression, a preconceived leap that derives from a stored impression, and I'd say it would come from Si-Ne over Ne-Si, as a Ne user would have many interpretations from said avatar.
> 
> In terms of Ni doing this, I think we need more Ni doms to chime in, but I'd be curious to see how many members actually completely disregard a stranger's opinion based on their avatar. That seems quite shallow and extremely judgemental to say the least.


I didn't say that I disregard someone's opinion based on his avatar. All I said was that my emotional disposition towards a person will be highly influenced by the emotions which are challenged towards me by his avatar:



> Generally speaking, I always feel like every person's avatar is directly speaking to me, and every person's post is strongly permeated by the mood expressed in the person's avatar. *So even if the person makes a very polite informative post, I will take offense from it if his avatar seems offensive to me.*


My problem with Turi isn't his avatar (although I do dislike his a lot). It's rather the combination of his avatar and his behavior. Or rather, his behavior in general. I disliked him when I was merely a lurker, but I didn't trust those feelings one bit. But I also saw how he sparred with other members. Then I tried to engage with him directly already as a member, and my previous suspicions as well as observations were confirmed.

It's not that I dislike his attempts to contribute, I have simply by now figured out the bigger picture of what's happening: he's extremely confused about what he's saying or doing, but he keeps trying to dominate the interaction and other people. As one member long ago said: it appears as though he's playing power games rather than discussing or talking. 

It is possible that he is unconscious of this however, but his lack of propriety/etiquette, his lack of self-doubt in everything he says, his patronizing manner of speech, and lack of consistency in everything he does and says - transforms him into chaotic and useless variable for me. Hence why I prefer to avoid him. (The guy who is so convinced of his knowledge has already typed himself as an INTP, INTJ, INFJ, now ISTJ. So I'm waiting for ISTP, ISFJ, ISFP, and occasional INFP, and in every single instance he'll be dead convinced he knows how the functions work)
Plus he blocked me and called me a d***head (or was it an a**hole?) just because I disagreed with his opinion. Hence why I have every justifiable reason to avoid him.


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## Knave (Sep 9, 2017)

@Mez, my point of someone disregarding someone based on avatar wasn't directed at you.


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## ButIHaveNoFear (Sep 6, 2017)

-Reading this thread is making me laugh out loud...

-I think the tendency is Fe because it is not an objective judgement and forms a sort of preemptive community with the person. But if the avatar judging is largely incorrect and obsessive/troublesome, I'd entertain the thought of it being an inferior function, like inferior Fe or inferior Fi applied to dominant Te(since I remember that Mez used to say she was ENTJ). 

-Or we could just call it the natural tendency to categorize people and objects, like all humans do. We all have and use judging functions.

-And now I'll write a plague doctor story since this is a plague doctor forum too: I'm fascinated by plague doctors because they are the face of death. Flowery death—since the "bird beak" was filled with aromatic materials, since they believed at the time that bad smells made you sick. That frightening, mysterious mask is the last thing you see before you die. In your feverish, tortured, psychotic state of wasting away, you're too delirious to know whether there is a man behind the mask or if it is the personification of death itself. You might think you're dead already and burning in Hell! Through distorted hearing, you hear the church bells ring, and one toll will be for you. Your family is nowhere to be found—either dead or escaping you. The plague doctor's family is nowhere to be found. No one wants to be around the plague doctor, who deals with death all day. As he looks at another dying patient through his foggy-lensed mask, foggy from his humid breath, he wonders if he actually _is_ the embodiment of death. As the blood from the vein of his patient patters into his collection jar, he knows that he will not be able to save this one either. His nose almost doesn't notice the floral aroma of his nose cone, but he can't help but imagine that these are the flowers for his patient's funeral, and he is the sole undertaker. He is stoic, but he is kind. He is frightening, but a sign of hope, as he is the end of terrible suffering. Even though he is a hundreds of years away from healing you, you can trust him. You can rest.

I don't know what any of that says about @brightflashes personally, but the avatar image made me want to find out why she appreciated plague doctors. It's good to know that it isn't just some random morbid picture you found online! 

---
Anyway, carry on! I'm just some chick with a chicken avatar; you can't expect anything intelligent from me:wink: P.S. My avatar is a chicken because I like chickens a lot. They are smart animals, and I like the noises they make, and eggs are delicious animal fruit. I don't buy eggs at the store because I know how those chickens were treated. Support farmers who are good to their animals. Etc.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@Mez



> My problem with Turi isn't his avatar (although I do dislike his a lot). It's rather the combination of his avatar and his behavior. Or rather, his behavior in general. I disliked him when I was merely a lurker, but I didn't trust those feelings one bit. But I also saw how he sparred with other members. Then I tried to engage with him directly already as a member, and my previous suspicions as well as observations were confirmed.


Which is it specifically, the avatar or the behaviour? 
You shift from including the avatar into your problem with me, to it not being a part of the problem, in the same sentence.

You dislike me because I speak the truth.
You're a curious case - you're clearly a Sensor - yet, you have horrible relationships with them all. This tells me _more _than I really wanted, or need to know.

You posted your results here, to prove you were an F type earlier.. here are your F results from a test you did a while back, in a type me thread:

extraverted Feeling (Fe) *********** (11.1)
unused
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************** (38.3)
excellent use

Yet, here are your F results you provided earlier in the thread:

Fe (Extroverted Feeling) (70%)
your valuation of / adherence to external morals, ethics, traditions, customs, groups

Fi (Introverted Feeling) (45%)
your valuation of / adherence to the sanctity of your own feelings / ideals / sentiment


In the space of about a month, you've magically turned from having, and quote, verbatim, letter for letter - "unused" Fe.. into fucking _Mother Theresa_ and you are now far less in tune with your Introverted Feeling.
Bullshit. I realise they're different tests, but come on.


It doesn't add up. 
You don't like me, because I see through the smoke and mirrors.

I'm sure at this point, you or someone else will think to search through my post history and identify the numerous inconsistencies - well, too bad, shit happens and I've never claimed to be consistent, in fact I oppose the concept of consistency as I find it limits my relentless pursuit of the truth and knowledge.




> It's not that I dislike his attempts to contribute, I have simply by now figured out the bigger picture of what's happening: he's extremely confused about what he's saying or doing, but he keeps trying to dominate the interaction and other people. As one member long ago said: it appears as though he's playing power games rather than discussing or talking.


I'm not confused at all, and you trip yourself up in the next part of your quote here when you mention my lack of self-doubt. Which is it, am I confused with regards to what I say and do, or am I confident? 
I realise the nature of the above question contradicts something I said above.

I don't try to dominate anything.

The member who mentioned power games, was somebody who couldn't see the forest for the trees, and that's okay - that's why I made the Ni thread to demystify it and make it clear and understandable for everyone.



> It is possible that he is unconscious of this however, but his lack of propriety/etiquette, his lack of self-doubt in everything he says, his patronizing manner of speech, and lack of consistency in everything he does and says - transforms him into chaotic and useless variable for me. Hence why I prefer to avoid him. (The guy who is so convinced of his knowledge has already typed himself as an INTP, INTJ, INFJ, now ISTJ. So I'm waiting for ISTP, ISFJ, ISFP, and occasional INFP, and in every single instance he'll be dead convinced he knows how the functions work)
> Plus he blocked me and called me a d***head (or was it an a**hole?) just because I disagreed with his opinion. Hence why I have every justifiable reason to avoid him.


Patronizing?

I didn't block you for disagreeing with me, I've detailed why I blocked you in the past.
I only unblocked you so I could read this thread - I just knew it would be full of misinformation.

I change my type 'status' on here quite a bit, yeah, I find putting on various type 'hats' helps me develop a deeper understanding of the functions, for whatever reason - perhaps this could be linked to the stereotypical "Sensor" trait of "learns by doing".

I know my true preferences are most likely INFJ, however I'm not closed off to alternate possibilities in the slightest, and I thoroughly enjoy exploring in-depth all of the functions - I like to keep the different types as a possibility, and really try to understand the world from these different points of view.

I'm not convinced of my knowledge, I believe there is always room for improvement and I believe I understand about 1% of the true depth of all of the functions.
Ever since getting into typology, I've really jumped on just learning learning learning learning and I've still got so many books to read, so many questions to ask.. so much, about all of the functions, so many perspectives I'd love to share with others and see what people think.
Infinite.

The awesome thing about typology is it can't be proven, you can't verify anything with complete certainty, and it's so incredibly subjective.
I understand the way I type makes everything sound like I just rattle of facts and "how it is" but this isn't the truth in the slightest, I'm constantly seeking to learn more and more about it all (and everything else, outside of typology).
That's just who I am.

I'm absolutely not content to just settle for any particular label, regardless of what tests say, regardless of what other people say and even regardless of what my own research tells me until I feel I've completely understood everything, considered every possibly aspect of each function and dichotomy - I've got about a billion ideas in my head that I need to dive into still. It's just infinite and that's why I like typology.

Unfortunately the way I write stirs some people up, but that's not my problem.


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## DOGSOUP (Jan 29, 2016)

Liove said:


> I'm reading that pretty clearly.


Am I not allowed to agree with someone? Get over yourself.


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## Eren Jaegerbomb (Nov 13, 2015)

Now this is really pointless, but DOGSOUP is a name I haven't seen for eons.


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## Liove (Sep 16, 2017)

Knave said:


> to judge someone by their avatar would seem to relate to a sense impression, a preconceived leap that derives from a stored impression
> 
> In terms of Ni doing this, I think we need more Ni doms to chime in, but I'd be curious to see how many members actually completely disregard a stranger's opinion based on their avatar. That seems quite shallow and extremely judgemental to say the least.


I think it's also possible that it's Fe-aux that made the conclusion, and it's cherry picking Ni context to rationalize itself.
It's also possible for the same Fe-aux to make the conclusion, and it's cherry picking Si context to rationalize itself.
Ni, Fe, Si = irrational functions???? *snort*

As for the refusal to acknowledge the possibility of Ni within the context of the opening post, it seems as if the conclusion that it's Si was made prior to the existence of the opening post. And that the opening post is simply another context to rationalize the Fe-aux conclusion made beforehand.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@Liove it's clearly Si. No bias. 

I mean y'all can wank your way into it being whatever you want, but if we're actually applying any kind of typology theory to the OP, it is definitely an example of Si focusing on subjective impressions of an object.

Of this, there is no doubt.

But if we're just winging it and making everything be what we want it to, that world where literally everything is Ni Dom Fe aux, then sure, lol, it can be Ni if this pleases the ego and the feeble mind.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

I'm sorry. I never ended up analyzing @Turi's icon for comparison. 

My initial impression: badass, stoic, introverted, things either are or are not (not exactly black/white thinking, but similar), casual, observant, and open to other people's ideas.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@brightflashes - yes that's basically my CV.
I also have "amicable" on there, I'm not sure why.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Oh, by the way, I haven't even offered my opinion on the thread, but perhaps that's because it's so obvious to me. It seems that this behavior points to Si and possibly Si + Fe. It's my understanding, informed by a Michael Pierce video which was particularly helpful for me to understand the perceiving axes, that Si forms "impressions" on sensory information rather than, what Se would do and see exactly what the picture is to begin with. Here is the source I am referencing (start at 18:25 to hear about perceiving functions, in which he literally uses a picture to illustrate how Si/Ne and Se/Ni respond to pictures):






While everyone uses all the functions at some time (otherwise we'd all be terribly maladjusted), it seems that the tendency to do this often is very Si/Ne. Michael Pierce also has a video on just the perceiving functions which is long and may be boring, but it really helped solidify my understanding. I wouldn't say that Pierce is the end all on all things cognitive function, but he obviously has thought a great deal about this and I enjoy his presentation. 

I strongly encourage @Mez to at least give the video a watch (from 18:25 on). I'm not saying that you are Si dom or that you are Si aux or anything of that sort; I'm just saying that this appears to me as Si. I'm also not saying you're mistyped. I have no reason to believe you're anything other than an INFJ and, if I did, I'd send you a PM and let you know.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

@brightflashes 

I've checked it and I must say I relate to both of the options of interpretation. And which option I would choose would strongly depend on how I would be feeling at the moment of making that choice. Whether I'd be under stress, relaxed, sad or high-spirited, whether I'd be in a hurry or not, and whether the task to interpret the painting would have important consequences or not.

Let's pretend that giving a proper analysis to the painting would entail important consequences, like: my interpretation would impact my salary or my life: I would take the Se/Ni approach. This is because I by default distrust my abilities/talents/competence, and would start digging extremely deep and routing out all possible biases, before I'd feel comfortable with my answer. (i.e. I would comment on the absence of the door, and its potential meaning/implications, as well as try to remember every color placement, color tone, shadow present in the picture)
If my interpretation would have no consequences, I would take the Si/Ne approach, as something that isn't important and is merely for play does not deserve so much emotional/intellectual investment. Hence for example I would interpret it as: I have a feeling a car is about to drive out from behind of the cafe, or the man and the woman at the table would have a fight any moment now, and just settle with that.

If I'd be under stress/duty when interpreting your avatar, I would wholesomely focus on the fact that the background is a brown gradient, that the clothes have some pink item on it similar to a flower, that the "separating lines" in the picture are not well defined (blurry), and that I personally prefer strong precision and sharpness when dividing sihlouettes in paintings. Then I'd look at the visual balance between different objects in the picture, and comment on what should be changed to maintain aesthetic appeal. After I'd be done with that, I'd start focusing on what's missing in terms of symbolism, or what's potentially hidden in the picture that I am unable to see at face value.

If taking a more relaxed approach, I would simply interpret the picture as a slide in a sequence of animation frames, expecting the plague doctor to swing his hand at any moment, to guide his crows in a particular direction.

So what would this all imply?


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

> So what would this all imply?


My casual opinion is that you _prefer_ to use Ni/Se, but can use Si/Ne in some cases. I have a theory about cognitive functions which is not based on anything I've read or been told, but I think might be sound based on my observations (though it would be dishonest to say that it's true by any means; it's just a theory}.

My theory is that a person's lead function is most like the same function attitude on that axis. 

In other words, an Ni dom would be able to tap into Si easily, Ti and Fi, Te and Fe, and Se and Ne. 

From my observations, this has only struck me based on the dominant function only. My INTP partner (who so often becomes my examples) has a very thorough understanding of Fi, for example. However, I know an ENTP who detests Fi (my theory would follow that they would admire and be able to use Se pretty well, though).


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> My casual opinion is that you _prefer_ to use Ni/Se, but can use Si/Ne in some cases. I have a theory about cognitive functions which is not based on anything I've read or been told, but I think might be sound based on my observations (though it would be dishonest to say that it's true by any means; it's just a theory}.
> 
> My theory is that a person's lead function is most like the same function attitude on that axis.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I still mostly base my type on dichotomy results, because I consider those to be the most straight-to-the-point and reliable. At the very least, they help me understand myself better. If I were to fall into the function-typing madness, I'd end up switching my type every single day.

The point of this thread was to hear opinions on what the mentioned avatar-related behavior can be triggered by.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Mez said:


> The point of this thread was to hear opinions on what the mentioned avatar-related behavior can be triggered by.


Oh wow. That's a much more interesting question (to me at least). In cognitive psychology, the concept of schema helps the brain organize information in a quick way to make judgements about certain life experiences. So, while it might seem extremely judgemental to assume every man a woman interacts with might be a predator, certain situations (walking alone at night and avoiding the male walking toward you by taking a different route) call for us to make quick judgements based on survival. When we do this refer to our schema.

So, I'd imagine that someone who has a desire to get a "quick read" of someone else would be someone who values Fe - especially since you mentioned "mood". I could make other conclusions which amount to that person, perhaps, needing to feel safe or that person having a need to structure responses which their audience will respond to favorably. Areas where this is used in real-life situations are criminal profiling, counseling (of any kind), sales, marketing, and teaching.


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> So, I'd imagine that someone who has a desire to get a "quick read" of someone else would be someone who values Fe - especially since you mentioned "mood". I could make other conclusions which amount to that person, perhaps, needing to feel safe or that person having a need to structure responses which their audience will respond to favorably. Areas where this is used in real-life situations are criminal profiling, counseling (of any kind), sales, marketing, and teaching.


That was my basic suspicion, I simply sought outside confirmation for it.


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)

[points to avatar]


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## VinnieBob (Mar 24, 2014)




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## Knave (Sep 9, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> My casual opinion is that you _prefer_ to use Ni/Se, but can use Si/Ne in some cases. I have a theory about cognitive functions which is not based on anything I've read or been told, but I think might be sound based on my observations (though it would be dishonest to say that it's true by any means; it's just a theory}.
> 
> My theory is that a person's lead function is most like the same function attitude on that axis.
> 
> ...


I've developed these same thoughts, hypothesizing on the possiblity that an INTP is in a sense Ti-Fi, Ne-Se, Si-Ni, Fe-Te, where their functions are kind of on an equalizer, or a bell curve, where in an INTP's case the Ti is stronger than Fi. However, each INTP differs depending on how far Ti extends on the curve compared to Fi on the other side--and going further, this creates the possiblity that certain INTPs could appear much more like an ISTP because the bell curves of the dichotomies of Ne-Se and Si-Ni are near the middle, where a _strong_ INTP would be heavy on the Ti, Ne, and Si axis.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

What i'm getting from many discussions on here is that some people are over complicating the functions which just makes everything more and more confusing for others who are looking to learn and this leads to never ending cyclical discussions that lead to nowhere.

sensing is tangible [yes even introverted sensing]

intuition is not tangible

if you look at someone's avatar or you look at someone in real life you feel like you immediately know all about the person BUT you can't explain how or why, that is an subjective intuitive thought and therefore, Ni. It is really that simple. It's subjective intuition. You feeling like you know that person is subjective because that's a personal perspective that not everyone will agree with. Ni doesn't involve a specific event or object from experience [at least not consciously] that can prove their perspective. Si does. Ni guesses/predicts, Si knows/remembers knows.

Si compares to what is already known. Si says the shade of red doesn't match what I know about that car. That is tangible. You remember the certain shade of red from your experience. No intuition involved. No abstraction. Si is more accurate than Ni because Si basis itself on things that ACTUALLY happened and can be ACTUALLY remembered.

Now if you look at the red car and say, I feel like this person is seeking attention, that is intuition. That is not tangible. You can't physically explain that to another person. There's nothing that can back that up. It's not a sensory thought.

A sensory thought - you can explain to someone, even if it is subjective, because you know the sensory details its being compared to. An intuitive one you can TRY to explain to someone but because it has no physical basis, it is really hard to explain. ESPECIALLY if it's subjective.

Introverted Sensing is ACTUAL but subjective. This means that this is the personal experience.

Si has personal experiences, Ni has personal meaning. Si is not married to its meaning [it's married to it's experience] because it is connected with Ne which is objective. Ni is married to it's meaning but it shares the physical experience with everyone because they have Se which is objective.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

"I look at the person's avatar, and instantly make a judgement of his character. So even if this is my very first time responding to a person's post, I will adapt the mood of the post to the person's avatar. If I find the character or scenery in his avatar to be arrogant, I will speak to him/her as I would speak to an arrogant person. If I find his/her avatar to be indicative of shyness or a delicate soul, I will style my post in a delicate way.

This is subjective intuition. These are intuitive thoughts. He is not comparing the sensory details with a personal experience that occurred in *real life* - that would be Si. He is extracting personal meaning [Ni] from objective details [Se]


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

Ni and Si are both very simple.* Don't overthink it* lol. I understand this is hard for people who think a lot, I am one of them.


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## spaceynyc (Feb 18, 2017)

IN before @Turi destroys all my posts and says their wrong lol.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

@spaceynyc - lol

Quick question - _which part of the OP is mediating his perceptions in an unconscious way?_

What is happening in the OP is a focus on the subjective impressions he receives from the avatar, it's _concrete_ sensing.

The following is from Jungs definition of Sensation.



> Concrete sensation never appears in "pure" form, but is always mixed up with ideas, feelings and thoughts. The concrete sensation of a flower conveys a perception not only of the flower as such, but also of the stem, leaves, habitat, and so on. It is also instantly mingled with feelings of pleasure or dislike which the sight of the flower evokes, or with simultaneous olfactory perceptions, or with thoughts about its botanical classification, etc.
> Concrete sensation is a contaminated reactive phenomenon.
> Sensation is conscious.


I'm sure I don't need to connect the dots here between concrete sensing and the OP, but I will anyway for anyone who isn't making the connections.

First and foremost - OPs perceptions are clearly conscious. So that's.. that.

Replace the "flower" with "avatar". Ah, the penny drops.

Seeing a persons avatar for the OP, not only conveys a perception of the avatar - but also of the poster, their character, their temperament - this obviously links to the stem, leaves and habitat etc from above.

Like the above, the OPs concrete sensing perception is also mingled with feelings of pleasure and dislikes (F) which the avatar evokes, and/or with thoughts about the perceived nature of the post and poster - and the OP reacts accordingly.
This therefore, is a reliance and trust, on concrete sensation.

This is beyond any and all doubt, introverted sensing.
These are the _subjective impressions_ introverted sensing is all about.


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## Agent X (May 23, 2017)

Mez said:


> I've been in the online community "business" for over 10 years old. By this I mean that I haven't only actively participated in many online forums, but have actually built/hosted/managed large communities myself for many years.
> Yet despite having had a very extensive history with forums in general, I still (no matter what) tend to fall into the following pattern of dealing with people online:
> 
> I look at the person's avatar, and instantly make a judgement of his character. So even if this is my very first time responding to a person's post, I will adapt the mood of the post to the person's avatar. If I find the character or scenery in his avatar to be arrogant, I will speak to him/her as I would speak to an arrogant person. If I find his/her avatar to be indicative of shyness or a delicate soul, I will style my post in a delicate way.
> ...


INTJ here, or fellow Ni-dom, depending on perception. I do the same as described above, and use details such as signatures, posting history, general mannerisms to "fill-in-the-blanks". However the most information I get from people is how they structure their posts and choice of words. Such as an Ni dom would be fond of words of: "At the end of the day, in my experience' and generally would maintain very cold style type of writing". I would argue that choice of words and mannerisms are more effective in typing or reading other people than avatars, however it is one puzzle in the bigger picture. However in a real world scenario, a person has to rely on his intuition.

Can you relate to the above @Mez?


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## Mez (May 3, 2017)

Agent X said:


> Can you relate @Mez?





Agent X said:


> I do the same as described above, and use details such as signatures, posting history, general mannerisms to "fill-in-the-blanks".


Yes. Despite what the person is saying, I still subconsciously construct my own impression of him based on cues outside of the message he's intentionally trying to convey. Although I don't have any specific pattern/rule-book based on how I "fill-in-the-blanks", it's a natural automated process. Before engaging with a person or replying to him, especially if I'm new in a particular community, I will check his "social standing" within that community, thus check how many posts he has, maybe in what forum sections he is most active in, how many "thanks" he has, how connected or disconnected he is with other members on a perosnal level, as well as what style of wording he uses, whether it's permeated with eloquence, sophistication, good-mannerism, or whether it's the exact opposite. I will not use these criteria as the defining basis to how I should style my conversation with him, but I will keep all of those details in mind, because I need to know what I'm dealing with, and whether anything I say would/could work against me.



Agent X said:


> Such as an Ni dom would be fond of words of: "At the end of the day, in my experience' and generally would maintain very cold style type of writing".


Yes, I tend to not only use this kind of approach, but actually abuse it. For whatever reason I always feel like I need to depersonalize my message whenever I type or even say it. So I tend to add "water" phrase like "Well, to be honest," or "As much as I am aware," or "Generally speaking," or "Either way," or "Whatever the case,". In fact, I noticed that whenever I chat with someone online, 90% of my phrases start with "Well...", as I am uncomfortable with jumping straight to the statement.

Somehow I always have a need to add some kind of "buffer phrase" at the start of any statement I make. It makes the sentence longer, but it makes me feel more comfortable this way.

I also tend to needlessly add mischievous or happy emojis to every single message I send, because I feel like the person on the other end of the chat may misunderstand the mood in which I am conveying my messages. But the thing is that I always use only 1 emoji for a specific person. So for example if I'm talking to my english online friends, whom I consider to be "on my level" and "understanding", I end almost every message with: xd
If I am messaging my friend's girlfriend, or someone who has a more distant/formal relationship toward me, I end every single message with 

People often ask me why am I putting these 2 emojis even if I'm sending a very serious or grim message. And the reason I do this is because I don't want to burden them with any negative feelings or emotions, or with seriousness. I want them to take everything I say light-heartedly even if it's very serious. I'm just constantly trying to convey an image of "positivity", and I do this subconsciously.

And I tend to pay a lot of attention to what emojis they send me. For example, if I receive a  instead of a  I will feel like I said something stupid, so they're being polite by smiling but aren't amused enough to laugh.



> I would argue that choice of words and mannerisms are more effective in typing or reading other people than avatars, however it is one puzzle in the bigger picture. However in a real world scenario, a person has to rely on his intuition.


Maybe it is. However, I don't pay attention to avatars solely for the sake of typing. Like I said, it's an automated process, just as is "filling-in-the-blanks" with information concerning a person's social status, style, eloquence, etc.


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