# Enneagram Subtypes of VILLAINS



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm tired of all the warm, fuzzy, kumbaya bullshit around these parts. let's list some evil, villainous, _fucked up_ exemplars of each type. they can be either villains or main characters who are criminals and/or not-so-good people


I'll start with some type 1 villains 

*Self Preservation 1*
- Aunt Petunia (Harry Potter)

*Social 1*
- Tywin Lannister (Game of Thrones)

*Sexual 1*
- Mikael Mikaelson (Vampire Diaries)
- Yggdrassil (Tales of Symphonia) 
- Frollo (The Hunchback of Notre Dame)


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

*Social 3.*

Patrick Bateman in American Psycho. 

Christian Troy in Nip/Tuck. 

Gaston in Beauty and the Beast. 

*Social 7. *

Jordan Belfort in The Wolf of Wall Street. 



*Social 8. *

Tom Buchanan in The Great Gatsby. 

*Sexual 8. *

Bill the butcher in Gangs of New York. 

*
Self Preservation cp6. *

The Governor in The Walking Dead.


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## WardRhiannon (Feb 1, 2012)

*Sexual 4*

Regina Mills from _Once Upon a Time
_Severus Snape from_ Harry Potter


_


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> *Social 3.*
> Patrick Bateman in American Psycho.


most likely yes




> Gaston in Beauty and the Beast.


unhealthy Sexual 6 (he is a caricature of a 6's impression of 3 XD)



> *Social 7*
> Jordan Belfort in The Wolf of Wall Street.


noooooo, *Self Preservation* 7. Social 7 is the anti-7. Social 7 is more the pretentious, New Age hippy who wants to "transcend material possessions" (come to think of it, the culture of PerC is very Social 7 :laughing: )

Self Preservation 7 is more the greedy, opportunist capitalist who wins people over with their charm when they're really a slick scum bag XD


*Self Preservation cp6. *
The Governor in The Walking Dead.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if he's 2 So/Sx or 8 So/Sx, but definitely not 6. Self Preservation 6 is warmer, more passive, the guy/girl always apologizing when they don't need to :tongue:


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> most likely yes
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if he's 2 So/Sx or 8 So/Sx, but definitely not 6. Self Preservation 6 is warmer, more passive, the guy/girl always apologizing when they don't need to :tongue:[/QUOTE]


Interesting. I could see him being 8 so/sx. lmao about PerC being social 7. XD.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

*Sexual 7. *

Alex DeLarge in A Clockwork Orange. 

*Sexual 8. *

Detective Harris in Training Day. 

Tyrannosaurus Rex in Jurassic Park. 
*
Sexual 2. *

Malkina in The Counselor.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

*Sexual 4*

Cersei Lannister (Game of Thrones)



WardRhiannon said:


> Severus Snape from_ Harry Potter_


Yes. INFP sexual 4w5, I've always adored him and his bitter ways.


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## WardRhiannon (Feb 1, 2012)

*Social 2
*Dolores Umbridge from _Harry Potter_


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> Gaston in Beauty and the Beast.





Swordsman of Mana said:


> unhealthy Sexual 6 (he is a caricature of a 6's impression of 3 XD)


Err, I think Gaston from the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast is a bombastic example of a Social 8, IMO. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the Beast and Gaston are two different characters based on the same real life person as frequently taking a real life person's personality and splitting them into discrete characters in novel was typical for French literature of the time. *shrug*

Another 8 villain: Sexual 8 = Lex Luthor.

Sp 8... maybe the aliens from the movie Independence Day. They wanted to kill all humans to take Earth for themselves. Fear based self-preservation 8 drive.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Consolidated Potato said:


> Err, I think Gaston from the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast is a bombastic example of a Social 8, IMO. I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the Beast and Gaston are two different characters based on the same real life person as frequently taking a real life person's personality and splitting them into discrete characters in novel was typical for French literature of the time. *shrug*


he is too concerned with image and status to be an 8. a better example of a Social 8 disney character is Esmeralda from The Hunchback of Notre Dame (with very strong Sexual)



> Another 8 villain: Sexual 8 = Lex Luthor.


Self Preservation 8. more reserved and calculating. Sexual 8 is more charismatic, impulsive, "barbarian" :tongue:


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

*Disintegrated Sexual 4*

Bellatrix Lestrange (Harry potter)

*Sexual 2*

Melisandre (Game of Thrones)
Theon Grejoy (Game of Thrones)
Ramsay Bolton (Game of Thrones)

*Social 2*

Regina George (Mean Girls)

*Social 3*

Draco Malfoy (Harry Potter)
Izaya Orihara (Durarara)
Lucius Malfoy (Harry Potter)


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

WardRhiannon said:


> *Social 2
> *Dolores Umbridge from _Harry Potter_


definitely not. she is about as seductive as a retirement home washroom 

I was actually going to list her as a perfect example of a Social 6 villain


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

*Social 2. *

Regina George in Mean Girls. 

*Self Preservation 3. *

Gus Fring in Breaking Bad. 
*
Sexual 3. *

Cal Hockley in Titanic. 

*Sexual 2. *

Humbert Humbert in Lolita.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Hotaru said:


> *Disintegrated Sexual 4*
> Bellatrix Lestrange (Harry potter)


most likely, yes :laughing: (could also be Sexual 8w7)



> *Sexual 2*
> 
> Melisandre (Game of Thrones)
> Theon Grejoy (Game of Thrones)
> Ramsay Bolton (Game of Thrones)


I had Melisandre and Theon as Social 2s, though, now that you mention Sexual 2 for Theon, it makes a lot more sense (he could also be Sexual 6). Melisandre on the other hand is less impulsive/more long term strategic than Sexual 2 (which is more like Shae



> *Social 3*
> Draco Malfoy (Harry Potter)
> Izaya Orihara (Durarara)
> Lucius Malfoy (Harry Potter)


I actually think Lucius is a 5 or a Sexual 4. he is more openly "fuck you" than I picture a 3 being, his alliances are more practicality driven and his sense of superiority does not come from a sense of accomplishment the way it does for a 3.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> *Social 2. *
> 
> Regina George in Mean Girls.


YES! a perfect example of an insecure, bossy Social 2



> *Self Preservation 3. *
> Gus Fring in Breaking Bad.


yes



> *
> Sexual 3. *
> Cal Hockley in Titanic.


eh, too controlling for Sexual 3. Sexual 3 is more 9-ish, dislikes conflict and has a more, for lack of a better word, "sparkly" vibe to them. the Sx 3 males come off more "prince charming" on average (think Leonardo di Caprio or John Smith from Pocahontas)


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> YES! a perfect example of an insecure, bossy Social 2
> 
> 
> yes
> ...


Regina George is amazing. And Cal is pretty much prince charming. They would make a hell of a power couple. XD.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> most likely, yes :laughing: (could also be Sexual 8w7)


Generally, if I can see myself going nuts in a similar way they're likely sexual Fours. 

But I can see 8 working for her yet she still has a strong inferiority/rejection fueled hatred especially when it comes to Voldemort and her love for him. I can see the unhealthy traits of 2 in her more easily than unhealthy 5 traits, making her seem more linked to 4 through disintegration points. 

I have the same issue with Viserys from GoT, he seems very 8-like but it's all hurt pride, a feeling of entitlement, self loathing for the condition he's stuck in and envy for his sister and the power she seemed to grow, as well as seething contempt for the "Usurper's dogs". Daenerys is not technically a villain (yet) but definitely another social 2.



> I had Melisandre and Theon as Social 2s, though, now that you mention Sexual 2 for Theon, it makes a lot more sense (he could also be Sexual 6). Melisandre on the other hand is less impulsive/more long term strategic than Sexual 2 (which is more like Shae


She's very seductive but her focus is on the 'greater good' so I don't disagree, it might be due to her being a FeNi dominant but social fits her better. Theon is definitely a sexual subtype, he's all pride, lust, desperation to be loved and once Ramsay breaks him he starts focusing on his own _real_ identity and holding onto it.



> I actually think Lucius is a 5 or a Sexual 4. he is more openly "fuck you" than I picture a 3 being, his alliances are more practicality driven and his sense of superiority does not come from a sense of accomplishment the way it does for a 3.


He seems very status conscious in a way that a Four wouldn't be, he knows he's a pureblood, handsome, rich and cultured and he wants to project that image as hard as he can while sneering on the Weasleys and lower classes because it's a perfectly acceptable thing to do in that kind of environment. But he's never as blatant as Snape is, for example, he has the whole "polished on the outside, spiteful and amused by his own stunts" attitude that I tend to notice in core 3s.


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## Consolidated Potato (Feb 2, 2015)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> he is too concerned with image and status to be an 8. a better example of a Social 8 disney character is Esmeralda from The Hunchback of Notre Dame (with very strong Sexual)


Ah, well I don't remember the movie as I watched it as a kid but I always assumed Gaston and The Beast were simply two sides of the same coin. I think 8 and 3 would've been in his tritype with 6 perhaps being his head fix. Sadly, I've neither watched or read The Hunchback of Notre Dame so I'll have to take your word for it.



Swordsman of Mana said:


> Self Preservation 8. more reserved and calculating.


Yeah, I guess I can see Lex Luthor being an Sp8. There are a few instances of him in the Superman cartoons of him being an Sx8 though. Also, you didn't mention the aliens from Independence Day -- an entire race of Sp8. 



Swordsman of Mana said:


> Sexual 8 is more charismatic, impulsive, "barbarian" :tongue:


Hey! as an Sx8, I take offense to being called a barbarian! Unless you mean barbarian like Conan the Barbarian in which case, I wish! He's the only fictional barbarian I know who is celebrated for banging at least two hot chicks at the same time. :tongue:


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Hotaru said:


> *Sexual 2*
> 
> Ramsay Bolton (Game of Thrones)


Why Sx over Sp for him? Not that I disagree strongly, but he vibes more Sp for me. I agree he's quite likely a 2 though.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Wistfulness said:


> Why Sx over Sp for him? Not that I disagree strongly, but he vibes more Sp for me. I agree he's quite likely a 2 though.


There's an almost erotic element in his sadism, even more pronounced in the books. 

From his hunting of women to his winning love through torture/comfort techniques and the implication that he had sexual relations with the previous Reek in the books (if I remember correctly) he seems to seek some kind of intimate, lustful dependency out of his victims.

He's more 'dangerously ravenous' than a 'spoiled little sadist'. Sx/Sp I think.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Sixty Nein said:


> To be honest, I can't name many type 9 villians, outside of that cross dresser that was with the shark tooth beginner villian from Naruto. Though I am the most _hardassed_ nine in the world.
> 
> Then again a list of 9s that are morally good are also a bit on the short list. We are all more or less neutral in some way. Chaotic, Lawful or Neutral on the ethics scale. Yet more or less always neutral. At heart, most nines are more like Daria than Nia Teppelin. Even in how they portray themselves. The "light 9" doesn't even exist, because the core of every nine is pure unadulterated hatred unexpressed due to a lack of willpower and cowardice.


to be fair, I can't name all that many 9s period. they don't tend to stand out much =P


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

*James from Team Rocket, Pokémon: Sexual 9 (INFP).* Not a bonafide villain, a bit of a softie, but still generally takes the villain role. Mostly following Jessie's lead. Has a bit of a romantic streak too (often has a rose within reach :kitteh, worries about his appearance (clothing & hair), has a way with words by inventing sad stories (not something I associate with 9, but it seems to lessen the possibility of type 2).


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

To continue with the team Rocket typings

Jessie seems like an ENTJ 8w7 to me, I'd say sexual but I can see social as well. Sx/so most likely.
Dat tertiary Se going out of control... :blushed:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Hotaru said:


> To continue with the team Rocket typings
> 
> Jessie seems like an ENTJ 8w7 to me, I'd say sexual but I can see social as well. Sx/so most likely.
> Dat tertiary Se going out of control... :blushed:


I saw her as a 2 personally (Sexual or Social)

speaking of 2s, here is an example of an evil Social 2 par excellence 






and an evil Sexual 2 biatch 






and an evil Self Preservation 2


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Self Preservation 5 or Self Preservation 8






Self Preservation 7






Sexual 4


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## Superfluous (Jan 28, 2014)

Let's fucking talk about Lisa Rowe from _Girl, Interuppted_ for a minute







*Trigger Warning 










Note that she is ruled sociopathic, in the movie, and I think book. Though she rules out competition in the movie, it's fueled by feeling inferior. Totally not image conscious. I see seven in her, and though she is in an unhealthy state, she doesn't seem like a 5 disintegrated to 7. Though she struggles for power, it doesn't seem to be her fuel enough to be a 8w7. Her way of coping in her situation is her idea that she is free, free from social convictions, free from guilt, free from responsibility. When she is told that she isn't free from life, but simply just dead, she has an episode. 

I believe she's a 7w8 of some kind.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Foxtop said:


> *Sexual 9*
> 
> Johan Liebert from Monster


Uh...if you got that idea from a certain Tumblr post, I made that post and every assumption in it could be quite wrong. I didn't know about Naranjo or Chestnut then, so I've been trying to reassess how I approach the enneagram. Johan is a tough nut to crack, and now I think it's even possible that he's an extremely unhealthy social type. He seems to deeply resent society and revels in its destruction, and yet he is extremely good at manipulating people and groups.



The Scorched Earth said:


> Why not Sexual 3?


No...just no. Johan cares nothing about being praised for his accomplishments. I know I said he has a 3-fix in that post I linked to, but that was mostly based on faulty assumptions. If he is an image type at all, he's a 4. It's quite conceivable that he feels inferior in some way for spoilery reasons, and The Nameless Monster story could even be a metaphor for 4-ish envy. The monster desires a name (an identity) but no name ever seems good enough, so it is continually seeking other names. Maybe he could even be a sexual 4, considering how he feels a need to lash out at the world and make other people suffer. The only problem with that typing is that it contrasts with his cold serenity. 

*clears throat* Okay maybe I should attempt an actual contribution now...

*The Legend of Korra

*Amon: 8w7 so/sx (I could see sx 1 for him as well but so 8 fits him quite well.)
Tarrlok: 2w3 so/sp (I know some would say 3 but so 2s can look a lot like 3s. And he genuinely wanted to be helpful to Republic City I believe, but his own need for power and influence lurked underneath that.)
Unalaq: 1w9 sx/so (IDK?)
Varrick: 7w8 sp/sx
Zaheer: 8w9 so/sx (I had sx 1 before but I realized that no 1 would think that _chaos_ is the natural state of things. )
Kuvira: 6w5 so/sx (cp)


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## atarulum (Jun 21, 2015)

Christmas Rose said:


> *Disintegrated Sexual 4*
> 
> Bellatrix Lestrange (Harry potter)
> 
> ...


Izaya is more like 4 so sx


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

atarulum said:


> Izaya is more like 4 so sx


With renewed knowledge of both the characters and the system, I'd like to update a couple of the typings.

*Draco* - 6w7 sp/sx
*Lucius* - 4w3 sx/so


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## Dangerose (Sep 30, 2014)

Self-pres 2: Crowley from Supernatural imo









King Herod: self-pres 4w3 or 3w4? not sure if it's really possible to know

Casaubon (Middlemarch) social 2 (Not my own typing, saw it somewhere, but I'm going through a list of books I've read and it reminded itself to me)

Macbeth: social 6w5? Lady Macbeth sexual 3w2??

Javert: social 1?

Rebecca du Maurier: social 2w3 or 3w2 

Becky Sharpe: social 3w4

I wonder if Vronsky from Anna Karenina could be a 9: seems a little unlikely, but I could see it as a typing


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## newbie const (Nov 26, 2015)

Hans[Frozen]:7w8 Sp/So..can be social 2 fixer though..
Lord Blackwood[Sherlock Holmes RDJ version]:8w9 Sp/So.
Moriarty in Sherlock Holmes original stories:8w9 fixed 5w6 So/Sp.
Col.Sebastian Moran[SH]:8w7 Sp/Sx or Sx/Sp
I can give a plenty of example from our native TV shows..but nobody here has seen them..so that will be in vain..though most of them are So 3,CP 6 and 8s.


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## Bathilda (Nov 4, 2014)

Since my family re-watched all the Potters for the holidays...

Peter Pettigrew isn't a bad candidate for a 9 villain. 9w1 sp. His entire life derailed because he was terrified to stand up to Voldemort, and he narcotized by living as an animal for more than a decade. I could see sp 6, but I think a 6 would do a lot more overthinking and self-justifying rather than living a quiet, peaceful (short) life as a rat.

Quirrell plays an sp 6 but he literally merges with the object of his affection--could be an sx-9 villain, or at least a damn fine metaphor for sexual 9. For the few moments we see his real personality, there is a huge amount of bottled-up rage and sx-energy there.

Narcissa Malfoy seems like a social 9, always on the edge of the movement, totally identified with her family, but trusted by all the death eaters. Despite being a 'villain', she destroys the whole Dark Army by passive-aggressively saying Potter is dead to save her son (and to satisfy her anger at Voldemort for wanting to sacrifice Draco and Lucius).


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Bathilda said:


> Since my family re-watched all the Potters for the holidays...
> 
> Peter Pettigrew isn't a bad candidate for a 9 villain. 9w1 sp. His entire life derailed because he was terrified to stand up to Voldemort, and he narcotized by living as an animal for more than a decade. I could see sp 6, but I think a 6 would do a lot more overthinking and self-justifying rather than living a quiet, peaceful (short) life as a rat.


Sp 6. he is pure head center



> Quirrell plays an sp 6 but he literally merges with the object of his affection--could be an sx-9 villain, or at least a damn fine metaphor for sexual 9. For the few moments we see his real personality, there is a huge amount of bottled-up rage and sx-energy there.


definitely another Sp 6 (he is nothing like a 9, especially not an Sx dom in any capacity)


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

newbie const said:


> Hans[Frozen]:7w8 Sp/So..can be social 2 fixer though..


Hm, I thought he seemed like a 3w2.


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## Despotic Nepotist (Mar 1, 2014)

Tywin Lannister is a callous son of a bitch and also an 8w9 so/sp as I originally thought. @Swordsman of Mana I can see where you might think that he is a 1w9 so/sp (if you still do), and while he seems more interested in upholding principle to a degree, the only real principle that he's really interested in upholding is the continuation of the Lannister name as the most prestigious name in Westeros. His interest in being one of Westeros' most powerful men is one that stems from a desire for direct control and influence (in contrast, to say a core 3, who seeks power more to create an image), which can only be achieved by advancing his family's name. In other words, he seeks power by using and identifying with group dynamics, namely, again, that of the Lannister family.

Tritype-wise: I'd say he's an 8w9 > 3w4 > 5w6 so/sp


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Despotic Nepotist said:


> Tywin Lannister is a callous son of a bitch and also an 8w9 so/sp as I originally thought. @Swordsman of Mana I can see where you might think that he is a 1w9 so/sp (if you still do), and while he seems more interested in upholding principle to a degree, the only real principle that he's really interested in upholding is the continuation of the Lannister name as the most prestigious name in Westeros. His interest in being one of Westeros' most powerful men is one that stems from a desire for direct control and influence (in contrast, to say a core 3, who seeks power more to create an image), which can only be achieved by advancing his family's name. In other words, he seeks power by using and identifying with group dynamics, namely, again, that of the Lannister family.
> 
> Tritype-wise: I'd say he's an 8w9 > 3w4 > 5w6 so/sp


Except the way he tries to keep his cool and anger is nothing like an 8?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Despotic Nepotist said:


> Tywin Lannister is a callous son of a bitch and also an 8w9 so/sp as I originally thought. @Swordsman of Mana I can see where you might think that he is a 1w9 so/sp (if you still do), and while he seems more interested in upholding principle to a degree, the only real principle that he's really interested in upholding is the continuation of the Lannister name as the most prestigious name in Westeros. His interest in being one of Westeros' most powerful men is one that stems from a desire for direct control and influence (in contrast, to say a core 3, who seeks power more to create an image), which can only be achieved by advancing his family's name. In other words, he seeks power by using and identifying with group dynamics, namely, again, that of the Lannister family.
> 
> Tritype-wise: I'd say he's an 8w9 > 3w4 > 5w6 so/sp


still think Social 1. so much more RIGID than 8. Social 8s are friendlier, less conscientious. compare him to Ollena Tyrel, who trolls the shit out of him :laughing:


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## Despotic Nepotist (Mar 1, 2014)

Entropic said:


> Except the way he tries to keep his cool and anger is nothing like an 8?


I don't think overt anger and aggression is a characteristic of all 8s. If you've seen _House of Cards_, I think that Frank Underwood is another example of an 8 who generally keeps his cool and his anger is more cold and seething than fiery. Besides, isn't it also possible that control over one's self = taken more seriously = greater ability in controlling one's environment? I recall that you told me some time ago that Enneagram is about motivations, not behaviors. Wouldn't saying that he isn't an 8 because he keeps his cool and anger an example of judging primarily by behaviors and not by motivations?

I'm not denying that 8s can be aggressive or have anger issues. I'm just saying that pervasive anger might not be a characteristic of particular 8s because it could conflict with obtaining their primary motivations, aims, and desires.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Despotic Nepotist said:


> I don't think overt anger and aggression is a characteristic of all 8s. If you've seen _House of Cards_, I think that Frank Underwood is another example of an 8 who generally keeps his cool and his anger is more cold and seething than fiery. Besides, isn't it also possible that control over one's self = taken more seriously = greater ability in controlling one's environment? I recall that you told me some time ago that Enneagram is about motivations, not behaviors. Wouldn't saying that he isn't an 8 because he keeps his cool and anger an example of judging primarily by behaviors and not by motivations?
> 
> I'm not denying that 8s can be aggressive or have anger issues. I'm just saying that pervasive anger might not be a characteristic of particular 8s because it could conflict with obtaining their primary motivations, aims, and desires.


No, but I still think Frank Underwood showcases reactivity and he manifests different behaviors and attitudes very exemplary of the type. I've never seen anything of Tywin that would suggest the sort. Tywin imo doesn't blame but he shames. 

I agree that of course motivations matter and one shouldn't type solely off behaviors, but there are also a set characteristics that are typical for a type when combined together and I don't see Tywin having any of those. Most importantly, why is Tywin seeking control? 1s also often strive for positions of power and control their environment.


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## Despotic Nepotist (Mar 1, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> still think Social 1. so much more RIGID than 8. Social 8s are friendlier, less conscientious. compare him to Ollena Tyrel, who trolls the shit out of him :laughing:


That's why I called you a younger, male Olenna. :laughing: Actually, it was merely because the SoM brand of playfulness, imo, parallels the Olenna brand.


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