# Teachers are paid as much as cops



## Toru Okada (May 10, 2011)

mhysa said:


> it's a sad day when people are willing to believe (or at least imply) that cops have a more important job than teachers.


On their own they're just two types of career paths. Instructor and protector. Though it isn't that simple. Many teachers in public schools are either boring-as-fukk or relegated by status-quo or otherwise essentially uninspiring punch-clockers on a salary. Most police enforce backwards laws and would probably fuck your mother ass up if they could. Then there are the good ones in each that no one really respects or cares about. Basically an all-around raw deal for everyone.

I'm all for privatized schooling and militia-men. And maybe not confiscating my marijuana, ociffer.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Vinniebob said:


> in new york state you must possess a masters degree in order to teach
> if you ask me they are still underpaid for the hours worked
> btw is for more then their salaried positions
> the po po make way more then teachers
> average cop makes a minimum of $70 K


You forget that we have to pay for them. We don't need to pay more for anybody.


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## Messenger Six (Apr 12, 2016)

Will I sound too much like an ENTP if I suggest that teachers are overrated? Professors are one thing, but public elementary school teachers in the US generally baby sit and read out of a giant, out-dated text book while forcing propaganda down your throat. School is the Ti killer. Cops are often putting their lives on the line when they suit up. I'm not suggesting teachers shouldn't be paid more, they should, but I wouldn't glorify elementary school educators at the expense of police officers. Plenty of children are home-schooled during their early years with no adverse effects. Also, is this salary related or by the hour? Keep in mind that teachers get a lot more time off, because school is out for the summer.

I also wish they had higher standards at some of the local police departments when it comes to recruitment, but that's another issue.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Messenger Six said:


> Will I sound too much like an ENTP if I suggest that teachers are overrated? Professors are one thing, but public elementary school teachers in the US generally baby sit and read out of a giant, out-dated text book while forcing propaganda down your throat. School is the Ti killer. Cops are often putting their lives on the line when they suit up. I'm not suggesting teachers shouldn't be paid more, they should, but I wouldn't glorify elementary school educators at the expense of police officers. Plenty of children are home-schooled during their early years with no adverse effects. Also, is this salary related or by the hour? Keep in mind that teachers get a lot more time off, because school is out for the summer.
> 
> I also wish they had higher standards at some of the local police departments when it comes to recruitment, but that's another issue.


It takes a year to pass background


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## Messenger Six (Apr 12, 2016)

MisterPerfect said:


> It takes a year to pass background


For police officers? That varies significantly depending on the location from what I've been told.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Messenger Six said:


> For police officers? That varies significantly depending on the location from what I've been told.


No, it really does not. 

It ranges from 6-9 on average, some places its up to a year. Generally its a year unless you get lucky, than the department is usually 6 months. I know this for a fact since I looked up many departments, and I have officers in my family. After backgrounds if you make it you have to go to the academy for 6 months(Sometimes they house you there, sometimes they dont) and if you pass you graduate. If not you have to try again at the next academy. The test is also designed that you get extra points if you tried academy more than one time. They add points for certain things, I not sure how many points you need to pass. So its a long wait to just do background checks but generally its about a year wait, it does not vary that much between departments and the shortest is still 6 months long. They are very very Thorough about this stuff. You can get denied for poor credit history, for drug offense when you were a child, for criminal history. If you have a criminal history and you dont get out right denied they can simply extend it for several months. My brother had to wait 2 years for background checks because he had mistakes on his credit. He said it was a mistake they should not have charged him for and fixed it so he did not think it was relevant, the government thought it was crucial. So its a lot of crap you have to go through just to work for the police department, and all departments are like this. For this reason often a lot of people will drop out before even finishing the process. Waiting 2 years just for backgrounds is a huge hassle to go through. The department does have to pay to train you though, so to even open classes cost them money, I could see why they dont want to waste it on JUST ANYONE. They also have extensive background checks for Guards too which I find ridiculous considering a guard job only pays 10$ an hour and you have to pay 300$ just for background and fingerprints, which of course no company ever wants to do. Along with that they have to do a background check into who your family is and you have to give them where they were born and their background as well. So you can be disqualified from being a cop because of who your family is, not that you are a bad candidate for the job. Seattle takes 9 months for backgrounds. Some departments have said "We have shortened the process for background and now have a more efficient system" but from what I seen it was still 6 months. So half a year to a year is what you should expect for a police background and that is any department.


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## sereneone (Aug 1, 2013)

Messenger Six said:


> Will I sound too much like an ENTP if I suggest that teachers are overrated? Professors are one thing, but public elementary school teachers in the US generally baby sit and read out of a giant, out-dated text book while forcing propaganda down your throat. School is the Ti killer. Cops are often putting their lives on the line when they suit up. I'm not suggesting teachers shouldn't be paid more, they should, but I wouldn't glorify elementary school educators at the expense of police officers. Plenty of children are home-schooled during their early years with no adverse effects. Also, is this salary related or by the hour? Keep in mind that teachers get a lot more time off, because school is out for the summer.


I actually agree with this completely. Teachers below high school level are a lot more commodity than not. 

If you look in a place like California, the teacher unions are a complete nightmare and have taken over the state budget for pensions. No incompetent teacher ever gets fired. The unions make that impossible. The teachers have used their powerful lobby to vote themselves huge pensions. Now the profession attracts lazy and incompetent people who want to do little work while they are young and then retire early and get a fat pension for life. 

What gets you fired as a teacher is having an extreme opinion, which a stupid message to send to kids living in a democracy.

And this does not make you sound ENTP because an ENTP was too busy imagining all the changes she was going to make to civilization to be paying attention in class. :tongue:


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

MisterPerfect said:


> It takes a year to pass background


That makes no sense. It takes 1-3 days to pass security to work at a nuclear plant, why would it takes a year to work as a cop? It doesn't even logically make sense because what could even be done in that year? All the information is available online these days and then they generally call some people you know and ask them about you. Even secret clearances only take a month or so and those involve in person interviews with your friends and family as well as lie detector tests and in person psychological evaluations.


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## JayDubs (Sep 1, 2009)

Background checks can take less than 6 months where I live. But it's not unusual for an entire application process to take as long as a year. The fastest application process (from application to hired) that I know of took 5 months. The longest I know of was a year and a half. 

The reason it takes longer than a few days is because the background check is only a stage in the application process, and usually not the last stage. That is, it's not just a background check for that applicant. It's background checks for all the people they want for the next stage of the application process. The typical application process goes something like this - application, written exam, physical exam, background check, lie detector test, interviews. And only a portion of the applicants move on from each stage. 

Remember that MisterPerfect and I live in different parts of the country. So it's entirely possible that we are both giving accurate information for where we live.


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## wickedly (Mar 13, 2016)

Well how worth it is it put your life on the line for civic duty. They should make a higher income than teachers


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

broken_line said:


> That makes no sense. It takes 1-3 days to pass security to work at a nuclear plant, why would it takes a year to work as a cop? It doesn't even logically make sense because what could even be done in that year? All the information is available online these days and then they generally call some people you know and ask them about you. Even secret clearances only take a month or so and those involve in person interviews with your friends and family as well as lie detector tests and in person psychological evaluations.


I dont know, I just know it takes that long. I dont do the background checks though, so I dont have the full reasoning as to why. I just know this is the fact for most departments.


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## angelfish (Feb 17, 2011)

If you ask me, both are vastly underpaid.


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## vimalahot (May 2, 2014)

camous said:


> Which country are you talking about? You say it takes 4 years for teacher, so I assume you talk about the study, so what about cops, they get some training? Or is it training on the job so they get paid while training?
> I think that teachers in general should have a higher pay because their job is very important. Not that cops are not important but I don't have enough contact with them to know what their job conditions are.


like enforcing laws. 

police are better than teachers. teachers teach crap, invented by bureaucrats. 

most people see laws as fair, at least in Western countries. most school curricula is crap that's not even true, and designed to promote an ideological bias. Teaching isn't as noble a profession as it used to be.


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## camous (Jul 12, 2015)

vimalahot said:


> like enforcing laws.
> 
> police are better than teachers. teachers teach crap, invented by bureaucrats.
> 
> most people see laws as fair, at least in Western countries. most school curricula is crap that's not even true, and designed to promote an ideological bias. Teaching isn't as noble a profession as it used to be.


I don't really understand what you mean by enforcing laws? What are you talking about?

As for police being better than teachers I don't think you can do such generalization. Currently in France the olice is being particularly oppressive towards protesters, actually using tactics to trap them and using gaz bombs and such. Considering them better than teachers is not the first conclusion crossing my minds. But anyways it is strange you compare the two like that while your critic of teachers is the fact that they are promoting a biased ideology made up by bureaucrats. Who do you think give order to police officers? The state or the government right? Unless they are a militia which is quite worrying. The same government is the one designing the curriculum taught in school so if I folow your logic cops are no better, they also blindly follow the orders of those bureaucrat.

I agree that not all curriculum are great and that a lot of things we learn at school are very limited or taught in a restrictive way, yet it depends highly on the teachers. I had amazing teachers that opened my eyes and boosted my self esteem, I learnt a lot with them while some were purely jerks, but I still think that teaching is an important job, that is not considered as it should be. I will assume that if you are able to type on this forum it's because someone taught you so ... you can throw away everything you have gained from some teachers. But I guess it's always easy to bitch about them than trying to take responsibility for our learning and education...


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Well education doesn't always directly translate to salary. Although I am all for teachers getting the pay they deserve, and not that they don't work hard but objectively speaking I can see a cop's job is far more difficult with the nature, hours, labor, work/life/family balance and is also dangerous. It is a tough and dirty job. Also a cop's job is more practical, meaning they mostly learn on the job and they need to be younger/agile so it only makes sense. However, I would like some effort to teach more to future cops, on subjects of psychology and how to handle stress etc.


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## vimalahot (May 2, 2014)

camous said:


> I don't really understand what you mean by enforcing laws? What are you talking about?
> 
> As for police being better than teachers I don't think you can do such generalization. Currently in France the olice is being particularly oppressive towards protesters, actually using tactics to trap them and using gaz bombs and such. Considering them better than teachers is not the first conclusion crossing my minds. But anyways it is strange you compare the two like that while your critic of teachers is the fact that they are promoting a biased ideology made up by bureaucrats. Who do you think give order to police officers? The state or the government right? Unless they are a militia which is quite worrying. The same government is the one designing the curriculum taught in school so if I folow your logic cops are no better, they also blindly follow the orders of those bureaucrat.
> 
> I agree that not all curriculum are great and that a lot of things we learn at school are very limited or taught in a restrictive way, yet it depends highly on the teachers. I had amazing teachers that opened my eyes and boosted my self esteem, I learnt a lot with them while some were purely jerks, but I still think that teaching is an important job, that is not considered as it should be. I will assume that if you are able to type on this forum it's because someone taught you so ... you can throw away everything you have gained from some teachers. But I guess it's always easy to bitch about them than trying to take responsibility for our learning and education...


in my country, most people think the bulk of laws are sound. Just my view that police work given its necessity is a more honest and noble profession than teaching, for the reasons that the curriculum is nonsense. Most of my schooled education has been more valuable post-compulsory education, not in primary or secondary schools.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

People in Hollow wood make up to 25 million for doing a 6mt to a year Job . Their only Job is to remember lines, and If they fuck them up they might do a hundred retakes in order to get the scene right. When they start paying people what the Job is worth rather than what they deem the person is worth, there just might be enough money to go around in the USA so everyone can live a decent life.


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## camous (Jul 12, 2015)

vimalahot said:


> in my country, most people think the bulk of laws are sound. Just my view that police work given its necessity is a more honest and noble profession than teaching, for the reasons that the curriculum is nonsense. Most of my schooled education has been more valuable post-compulsory education, not in primary or secondary schools.


Yes but is it the teachers' fault if the curriculum is nonsense? You talk as if the teachers were the one designing the programs, I am not sure which country you are speaking of, but from my experience it's the government that decides on the educational program. Teaching a "bad" curriculum anyways doesn't make a teacher a less honest person. Regarding value I suggest you look at data regarding countries that don't have mandatory education or countries that in the few last decades generalized schooling and see how it improved the living standards and opportunity for people. You keep saying the curriculum is nonsense but that's your personal experience with it so if you could explain why it's nonsense it would help me to understand your perspective. 
I think it's true that often in primary school and such the curriculum is more abstract but I don't think it's nonsense, I just think that the topics are not relatable for most kids or teens that are preocuppied with other issue. I would definitely explore other alternative learning methods, but I don't think spitting on the teachers as a profession is justified because they are not entirely part of the issue regarding the curriculum, there is a limit to the freedom they have in how to teach it.



nichya said:


> Well education doesn't always directly translate to salary. Although I am all for teachers getting the pay they deserve, and not that they don't work hard but objectively speaking I can see a cop's job is far more difficult with the nature, hours, labor, work/life/family balance and is also dangerous. It is a tough and dirty job. Also a cop's job is more practical, meaning they mostly learn on the job and they need to be younger/agile so it only makes sense. However, I would like some effort to teach more to future cops, on subjects of psychology and how to handle stress etc.


The jobs of some police officers are mostly in office or some on the roads, doing circulation and such... this is not the most tiresome nor dangerous job, I am not saying they are not effective or necessary but not all cops are arresting drug dealers and such so let's be honest that the penability of the work depends highly on which department the cop is working in. You also have some teachers working with difficult children, or teens in rehabilitation or even in bad neighborhood to the point that some of them have been assaulted by students, so in this case their work is indeed difficult and potentially (but it's rare) dangerous. 
However I agree with you I think they should have more training in psychology or even how to deal with victim (especially victim of assault) and such...


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

camous said:


> The jobs of some police officers are mostly in office or some on the roads, doing circulation and such... this is not the most tiresome nor dangerous job, I am not saying they are not effective or necessary but not all cops are arresting drug dealers and such so let's be honest that the penability of the work depends highly on which department the cop is working in. You also have some teachers working with difficult children, or teens in rehabilitation or even in bad neighborhood to the point that some of them have been assaulted by students, so in this case their work is indeed difficult and potentially (but it's rare) dangerous.
> However I agree with you I think they should have more training in psychology or even how to deal with victim (especially victim of assault) and such...


Of course but what is rare for teachers is common for the police, I don't think the police can chose their department? They can be assigned to another, they have less stability with positions. Also, a teacher at least have the holidays/nights spared, even long recesses.


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## flamesabers (Nov 20, 2012)

MisterPerfect said:


> Teachers at entry level are paid as much as an entry level cop. Sometimes less even. However it takes four years of college to get that pay for a teacher, it requires none of that to be a cop. I honestly am surprised I would think they would get better pay then this.


Education requirements aren't the sole determinant for the salary of a job. Teachers get stable hours, work inside a building and enjoy the luxury of a relatively safe environment. In contrast, cops can work any hours of the day or night, weekends, holidays, etc. while facing the risk of dealing with the worst of society outside in the extreme cold or heat. 

Anyway, I don't see the two jobs as being comparable other than the fact they're both public sector jobs.


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