# ESFJ, ENFJ or something else?



## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Nyfiken said:


> Oh and btw, I posted a video in the challenge thread, if that helps anyone with deciding on my type! :kitteh:
> http://personalitycafe.com/member-p...lity-cafe-video-challenge-87.html#post2774966


It doesn't contain enough information to help us type you.

The S function is connected with the F function and the N function is connected to the T function.

You talked about how you love animals etc. which to me suggests SF together with some other stuff you said.
I do think that the thing about not really caring about fashion has to do with the Si function since fashion is constantly moving etc. which is much more close to home for someone with a strong extroverted sensing.
Someone with Si is more likely to say "I like this, it's comfortable" and then not really change the way they dress even if it's out of fashion since Si is focused around memories and so the person feel at home with something that can be connected to a good memory rather than something new.


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## Nyfiken (Jan 8, 2010)

Acerbusvenator said:


> It doesn't contain enough information to help us type you.
> 
> The S function is connected with the F function and the N function is connected to the T function.
> 
> ...


Yeah I know, I just thought I would link it here anyway. 

Okay I do like clothes with memories, so I can identify with that. I do change the way I dress somewhat, but not according to fashion. But sure, I have clothes that I've had for years that I love and buying something completely different from what I'm used to wearing can be a bit scary. 

I have a question. Is it possible that your functions doesn't fit with the order they are supposed to come in according to the types? Could I for example have Fe-Fi-Si-Ni, and what would I be then? I feel like I use different functions in different situations. Like maybe I use Si in daily matters like what to buy at the store and such, and N when I write, read or talk about stuff that is a bit deeper than what to buy at the store? And that I use Fe when dealing with others and Fi when I'm dealing with myself and my choices for the future?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Nyfiken said:


> Yeah I know, I just thought I would link it here anyway.
> 
> Okay I do like clothes with memories, so I can identify with that. I do change the way I dress somewhat, but not according to fashion. But sure, I have clothes that I've had for years that I love and buying something completely different from what I'm used to wearing can be a bit scary.
> 
> I have a question. Is it possible that your functions doesn't fit with the order they are supposed to come in according to the types? Could I for example have Fe-Fi-Si-Ni, and what would I be then? I feel like I use different functions in different situations. Like maybe I use Si in daily matters like what to buy at the store and such, and N when I write, read or talk about stuff that is a bit deeper than what to buy at the store? And that I use Fe when dealing with others and Fi when I'm dealing with myself and my choices for the future?


Nope, you deal with your values from an external point of view so to speak.
Think of it like a slider, either you got Fe or you got Fi you can't have both.
Since you are dominant Fe, your forth function is Ti because it is the completely opposite function.
You got Si auxiliary, so Ne is your tertiary function.

They work like Yin and yang.

If you had "Fe-Fi-Si-Ni" then you'd have a split mind because Fe and Fi are like oil and water.
Not to forget that you'd lack the ability of reasoning since you'd lack the necessary function dynamic for it.


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## Nyfiken (Jan 8, 2010)

Acerbusvenator said:


> Nope, you deal with your values from an external point of view so to speak.
> Think of it like a slider, either you got Fe or you got Fi you can't have both.
> Since you are dominant Fe, your forth function is Ti because it is the completely opposite function.
> You got Si auxiliary, so Ne is your tertiary function.
> ...


Okay, I get it now. I actually had a real breakthrough today. I found a site with a good explanation of the differences between S and N that made me quite sure I'm intuitive. I talked with my friend that definitely is a strong intuitive and he thought I was intuitive. I showed my boyfriend the explanation and he thinks I'm intuitive. This is what I found:

* Sensing Characteristics*


Mentally live in the Now, attending to present opportunities

Using common sense and creating practical solutions is automatic-instinctual

Memory recall is rich in detail of facts and past events

Best improvise from past experience

Like clear and concrete information; dislike guessing when facts are "fuzzy"
*Intuitive Characteristics*


Mentally live in the Future, attending to future possibilities

Using imagination and creating/inventing new possibilities is automatic-instinctual

Memory recall emphasizes patterns, contexts, and connections

Best improvise from theoretical understanding

Comfortable with ambiguous, fuzzy data and with guessing its meaning.

I'm also very sure my boyfriend is sensing and I compared myself to him. He's the one noticing stuff going on around us when we are walking, and get's amazed when I don't. He's the one remembering faces and names. When we're watching a movie, I'm the one not remembering the face of one of the character and get's confused when two characters look alike and wonders which one is which. I think my good memory of what people tell me about themselves comes from Fe, not S. I don't know where my memory for where stuff are in the apartment comes from though.

And when I saw your message I googled some more, and googled Ni. Wow. Mind blown. Found this page that was so good: Introverted Intuition
It all makes sense. Ni is the most subconscious function which explains my confusion. I do have epiphanies, but thought everyone had them? Ni is not about going outside the box,_ it's about the box_. It's about patterns. I _love _patterns. That's what I love about society and political science, patterns are everywhere. I don't believe in social truths outside us. And why would anyone see that I use Ni from what I've written? It's about how I analyze, how I think. I didn't think it was anything special with the way I do that. I definitely go think about stuff and then have moments of "that's it!" where all the pieces fall into place. 

I think the fact that I like traditions are more about Fe, I don't like them for just being traditions.
Are you buying it Acerbusvenator? I'm nearly sure I'm an ENFJ now, at least. If you still don't agree, please, enlighten me because I don't get further than this. roud:


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Nyfiken said:


> And when I saw your message I googled some more, and googled Ni. Wow. Mind blown. Found this page that was so good: Introverted Intuition
> It all makes sense. Ni is the most subconscious function which explains my confusion. I do have epiphanies, but thought everyone had them? Ni is not about going outside the box,_ it's about the box_. It's about patterns. I _love _patterns. That's what I love about society and political science, patterns are everywhere. I don't believe in social truths outside us. And why would anyone see that I use Ni from what I've written? It's about how I analyze, how I think. I didn't think it was anything special with the way I do that. I definitely go think about stuff and then have moments of "that's it!" where all the pieces fall into place.
> 
> I think the fact that I like traditions are more about Fe, I don't like them for just being traditions.
> Are you buying it Acerbusvenator? I'm nearly sure I'm an ENFJ now, at least. If you still don't agree, please, enlighten me because I don't get further than this. roud:


Actually, Si and Ni can be often mistaken for one another because Si is paired with Ne, always, and Ne is the one that recognizes patterns in things. Si users often get epiphanies as well, but they get it because of the big information storehouse they have in their head, and sometimes the Ne notices interconnections between the information in your head and comes up with something innovative.

You mentioned you don't notice details much. If you were an ENFJ, and I know several, their Ni is paired with a tertiary Se, and Se notices details a lot. Several ENFJs I know pay a lot of attention to detail; everything has to be perfectly so.


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Nyfiken said:


> Okay, I get it now. I actually had a real breakthrough today. I found a site with a good explanation of the differences between S and N that made me quite sure I'm intuitive. I talked with my friend that definitely is a strong intuitive and he thought I was intuitive. I showed my boyfriend the explanation and he thinks I'm intuitive. This is what I found:
> 
> * Sensing Characteristics*
> 
> ...


*ERROR* *ERROR* *ERROR* *ERROR* *ERROR* 

You have been tricked!

*Sensing Characteristics*



Se: Mentally live in the Now, attending to present opportunities
(WTF has this to do with anything?!) Using common sense and creating practical solutions is automatic-instinctual
Si-ish: Memory recall is rich in detail of facts and past events
Si + WTF?!: Best improvise from past experience
WTF?!?!?! THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH Si ITSELF! IT'S DUE TO THE COMBINATION OF FUNCTIONS!: Like clear and concrete information; dislike guessing when facts are "fuzzy"
*Intuitive Characteristics*



Ni-ish: Mentally live in the Future, attending to future possibilities
Attempted explanation of Ne: Using imagination and creating/inventing new possibilities is automatic-instinctual
uuuuuh.... attempted explanation of Ne: Memory recall emphasizes patterns, contexts, and connections
(???) Best improvise from theoretical understanding
Inaccurate *shakes head* Comfortable with ambiguous, fuzzy data and with guessing its meaning.


Personally I think you're doing what you can to make yourself look like an ENFJ.
Ni and Si are quite alike so that page doesn't help you.


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## Nyfiken (Jan 8, 2010)

Amaterasu said:


> Actually, Si and Ni can be often mistaken for one another because Si is paired with Ne, always, and Ne is the one that recognizes patterns in things. Si users often get epiphanies as well, but they get it because of the big information storehouse they have in their head, and sometimes the Ne notices interconnections between the information in your head and comes up with something innovative.
> 
> You mentioned you don't notice details much. If you were an ENFJ, and I know several, their Ni is paired with a tertiary Se, and Se notices details a lot. Several ENFJs I know pay a lot of attention to detail; everything has to be perfectly so.


Okay. It's not that I don't notice details, my boyfriend just does it more, and he's an ISTP with Se as second function, so it would make sense, actually. But yes, okay.



Acerbusvenator said:


> *ERROR* *ERROR* *ERROR* *ERROR* *ERROR*
> 
> You have been tricked!
> 
> ...


Yes, I know you think so. I'm not sure whether I want to or if I'm just trying to get this right. All I know is I wont let this go before I can settle for one conclusion. 

Okay, maybe I'm an ESFJ then. But I'll ask a few last annoying questions to understand this fully. If Ni and Si is quite alike, how do you tell the difference? Is it just the tradition-part that makes you think I'm Si? From what I read it's Ne that gets bored with doing things more than once, not Ni. How would you tell someone had the Ni function?


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## Acerbusvenator (Apr 12, 2011)

Nyfiken said:


> Okay, maybe I'm an ESFJ then. But I'll ask a few last annoying questions to understand this fully. If Ni and Si is quite alike, how do you tell the difference? Is it just the tradition-part that makes you think I'm Si? From what I read it's Ne that gets bored with doing things more than once, not Ni. How would you tell someone had the Ni function?


It's about the axis
Ni and Se are always together
Ne and Si are always together

Se wants to live in the present and leave the old behind
Si needs the past as a point of reference for everything new

Ni is probably the hardest to explain, but you can see if the person got a weak or strong Se to determine where the Ni function is. If the person even uses Ni.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

One of my bestest friends in the world is an ESFJ. I sort of think ENFJs are the awesomest, too, but my ESFJ friend is as awesome as any ENFJ. You sound pretty awesome, too. 

One thing I can say about her, I don't know if all ESFJs would relate, is that when she was a young adult just out of college she had big ideas of traveling, experiencing the world, adventure, meeting some hot hippie guy out in the Pacific Northwest . . . and then she met her husband, a "hot young lawyer from Ohio" (her words) with her same political ideals and family values, and the reality set in that what she really, most deeply wanted to do was not wanderlust-y, but settled and nest-y, and they didn't even want to take the time to travel together, they just wanted to set up home and put down roots. They even moved back across the country from the city and friends they loved to make home near their parents, so their future children could have grandparents in their lives. So, she laughs at herself, but she's married to a man she loves, enjoying new motherhood, and thriving in creating a home. Turns out she's a genius of interior decoration as well as a master gardener and chef. I've known her since we were kids and I've never seen her happier, more productive, or more full of life. And I'm excited because I get to see her tomorrow at the farmers market she coordinates. Sorry to go on about someone else, just wanted to share a personal story of ESFJ awesomeness. It doesn't mean I think you're definitely the same type, but I am inclined to think it's likely.

You do sound like an Fe-dom, I'm not sure which one. ENFJs (as adults) have fairly strong Se: they tend to be more impulsive, more adventurous, risk-taking, and competitive than ESFJs, and more fashion-conscious. (For example, my ESFJ friend says she has no taste in clothing, although she obviously has excellent taste in room decor. Our ENFJ friend has always enjoyed experimenting with clothing and puts together her own style.) ENFJs also tend to be good speakers and presenters. ESFJs tend to be very expressive actors and musicians. ESFJs (as adults) have fairly strong Ne: they can be very concerned with politics and global humanitarian issues (which combines their Ne and Fe). It's always been extremely important to my friend to work for something she believes in. She's learned by now that she can't change the world, but she can make a difference in her own community, so she works for an organization that is in line with her strongest values, even though she earns less than she could elsewhere. I had a hard time realizing she wasn't an N type but an S type, since her intuition is very strong and she's very idealistic, expressive, musical, etc. So, don't let the fact that you have intuition make you think you must be an N type: everybody has intuition: in your case it's either Ni in second place or Ne in third place. (If you tend to see patterns in the social or political world then it's possible that it's Ne, so ESFJ.) Either way, you can have good use of it.

I just came across these type descriptions and find them incredibly helpful:

http://mytype.com/reports/d_l_/ESFJ.pdf

http://mytype.com/reports/d_l_/ENFJ.pdf

ESFJs and ENFJs both tend to doubt their intelligence/competence in some way or another. It comes from the inferior Ti function they share. (That could also be related to your attraction to Ti-doms.  )

Also, these might help if you know what you were like as a child:

http://personalitycafe.com/esfj-articles/7293-esfj-child.html

http://personalitycafe.com/enfj-articles/7279-enfj-child.html

By the way, your English is impeccable. I never would have known you weren't a native speaker if you hadn't mentioned it.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

Nyfiken said:


> I'm also very sure my boyfriend is sensing and I compared myself to him. He's the one noticing stuff going on around us when we are walking, and get's amazed when I don't. He's the one remembering faces and names. When we're watching a movie, I'm the one not remembering the face of one of the character and get's confused when two characters look alike and wonders which one is which. I think my good memory of what people tell me about themselves comes from Fe, not S. I don't know where my memory for where stuff are in the apartment comes from though.


I agree with @_Acerbusvenator_ that those charts don't show very well the difference between Se and Si, and they're rather misleading. What you're describing your boyfriend as using is definitely Se, and if you're ESFJ, then no, you wouldn't have it. (My ESxJ friends and relatives use it so poorly I have to laugh or else I cry! Same story.) But that wouldn't mean you're not a sensor: you would have Si. Si users tend to have excellent memories, love remembering and recreating memories with loved ones, love holidays and celebrations (xSFJs especially), can remember things in detail, have a sense of how things should be rather than how they are (vs. Se which is just the opposite).

A good overview of all the functions, which could help clarify some of the differences between Se and Si, and Ne and Ni. Also, from there you can link to some articles that specifically discuss the differences:

Personality Junkie | The Eight Functions

And specifically about Si:

http://personalityjunkie.com/09/introverted-sensing-sensation-si/


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## Le9acyMuse (Mar 12, 2010)

Hold on hold on, I've got questions. What do you want to do for people as a whole (society-wise). Please go into detail about your thoughts and plans you've made.


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## Nyfiken (Jan 8, 2010)

Thank you @ltldslwmn for your posts! Your friend sounds very nice and I can identify with wanting to settle down somewhere and maybe not explore the whole world after all.

I read the mytype-pages about ESFJ and ENFJ and I'm gonna point out some things. It's hard to know from the description of childhood because I was never one of the cool kids. I became best friends with a girl that was bullied, so we were bullied from age 7-9, then outsiders until I was about 16. Although I've never been in the popular gang, I tend to team up with the geeks or the "normal people". I'm involved in a student organization that is quite unpopular and geeky.

I can identify with a lot of both descriptions, they pretty similar after all. But there are some descriptions I can't identify in the ESFJ page: 
_...usually less interested in theoretical and abstract subject matters. They need to thoroughly understand the practical applications of the subject they study. (...) ESFJ would rather experience a given topic or subject before they read about it. They like active learning activities such as field trips, experiments, group projects, and activities that get them personally involved with others._
That is definitely not me. I get bored by too practical theories when studying and field trips and experiments never give me much. I rather read about it. In political science there's often no direct practical application, it's more about ideas, concepts that can be used. Like democracy, peace, deliberation. I find political philosophy to be one of the most interesting subjects.
This is mirrored in the talk of ESFJ work place. There's lots of talk about organizing, structure and so on. Direct, personal, practical help to others. That's not what I want to work with. I come back to that in my response to Le9acyMuse.

I identify a lot with the ENFJ description of organizational style: _The ENFJ organizational style is to plan around the particular value or ideal and to supply the necessary energy toward it's achievement and implementation. 
_That's exactly what I want to do.

I have a hard time knowing what is "normal" and what is extraverted sensing. I'm not much into danger, but thrills are nice. As a kid I rode a motocross, and I like fast speed. I love galloping really fast, that's probably one of the most freeing feelings of all. I enjoy roller-coasters, scary movies, good food, wine and chocolate. And bodily pleasures. But is that a normal amount? I mean, who _doesn't _love good food?
About introverted sensing, I don't think I'm close-minded. I might have been as a teenager, but hey, ENFJ can be sect leaders. And I don't recognize myself in being able to recall details, I tend to remember the situation, the feeling or such instead of the details. I have trouble remembering names and I learn a concept better than details.



Le9acyMuse said:


> Hold on hold on, I've got questions. What do you want to do for people as a whole (society-wise). Please go into detail about your thoughts and plans you've made.


Okay. The thing in political science that interest me the most is democracy. The philosophical idea as much as different ways of securing democracy. When I start working I want to work with Swedish democracy. I've decided against working on a global level because I want to live in Sweden. Going on business trips every now and then would be nice though. It would be amazing to work on country level or to work in one of the Nordic collaborations. There are state organizations working with evaluating democracy, evaluating the work of other state organizations. If I can't work with democracy, I also find it interesting to work with welfare on a state level or to work with our international development agency that distributes money we give to poor countries. 
But you can rarely start working on a state level and if I don't want to live in the capital, I might end up working on a city level. But it's the same there, working with enhancing and protecting democracy. But I would probably have to work with other issues as well, and that is okay.
What I don't want to do is work at the lowest level. We can work with distributing health insurance and deciding if migrants gets to stay or not. That's not what I want to do, I want to work with changing the structures, not the singular case. 

I was also thinking about if some of these things are culture based. About traditions - Swedes are crazy about Christmas and Midsummer and those are the holidays I care about. My friend from Australia says that we are very fond of our traditions in general and I read that Sweden is a "sensing" country. Race, Culture and MBTI Maybe that's affecting?


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

Nyfiken said:


> I was also thinking about if some of these things are culture based. About traditions - Swedes are crazy about Christmas and Midsummer and those are the holidays I care about. My friend from Australia says that we are very fond of our traditions in general and I read that Sweden is a "sensing" country. Race, Culture and MBTI Maybe that's affecting?



That's a good point and thanks for bringing it up. It's definitely true. I spent this year in France with people from many different countries and continents (nobody from Sweden, though  ) and I discovered the same thing: in order to type a person of a different culture you have to know a little bit about their culture's "personality" so you don't assume that something that's typical of their culture is typical of themselves. I sort of think France itself is INFP (Fi-Ne-Si-Te) and if I hadn't known about cultural differences then I would have assumed that some Si-like qualities in a French man I met early on gave him an Si personality, when in fact I got to know him better and realized he is clearly an Se-dom.

I'll have to reconsider your situation a bit.

I do think I'm hearing Si/Ne in you rather than Se/Ni, so I think it's more likely ESFJ than ENFJ. But they are so similar in a lot of ways. It's hard to tell. I think you'll be able to sort it out eventually but sometimes it just takes time.


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## Nyfiken (Jan 8, 2010)

ltldslwmn said:


> That's a good point and thanks for bringing it up. It's definitely true. I spent this year in France with people from many different countries and continents (nobody from Sweden, though  ) and I discovered the same thing: in order to type a person of a different culture you have to know a little bit about their culture's "personality" so you don't assume that something that's typical of their culture is typical of themselves. I sort of think France itself is INFP (Fi-Ne-Si-Te) and if I hadn't known about cultural differences then I would have assumed that some Si-like qualities in a French man I met early on gave him an Si personality, when in fact I got to know him better and realized he is clearly an Se-dom.
> 
> I'll have to reconsider your situation a bit.
> 
> I do think I'm hearing Si/Ne in you rather than Se/Ni, so I think it's more likely ESFJ than ENFJ. But they are so similar in a lot of ways. It's hard to tell. I think you'll be able to sort it out eventually but sometimes it just takes time.


I read that SJ-people are common here and Swedes are definitely scared of going outside the social norms. We also have "the Jante law" that is basically "who do you think you are?". It's about not thinking that you are better than anyone else and not think you are special in any way really. I know it affects me. It's really hard to write here about my traits that would be better than others, it's very uncomfortable. It's not something you do, even if you know it's true. You don't brag. 

Thank you for your help, I'll probably figure it out eventually. I'll keep thinking. :happy:


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## Nyfiken (Jan 8, 2010)

Oh btw @ltldslwmn about clothes, I don't care about fashion, but I have my own style. I definitely like clothes and I like experiment with different styles. I change my style a bit every now and then. I dress more colorful than most and I like clothes with a touch of retro. I often get compliments for my clothes, actually.

And thank you for complimenting my English, I take pride in having a good English. I'll just work a bit more on my pronunciation, then I'll be satisfied. 

And if it matters, I've scored as a 'highly sensitive person', although I don't think I'm an extreme one.


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## Le9acyMuse (Mar 12, 2010)

Nyfiken said:


> Okay. The thing in political science that interest me the most is democracy. The philosophical idea as much as different ways of securing democracy. When I start working I want to work with Swedish democracy. I've decided against working on a global level because I want to live in Sweden. Going on business trips every now and then would be nice though. It would be amazing to work on country level or to work in one of the Nordic collaborations. There are state organizations working with evaluating democracy, evaluating the work of other state organizations. If I can't work with democracy, I also find it interesting to work with welfare on a state level or to work with our international development agency that distributes money we give to poor countries.
> But you can rarely start working on a state level and if I don't want to live in the capital, I might end up working on a city level. But it's the same there, working with enhancing and protecting democracy. But I would probably have to work with other issues as well, and that is okay.
> What I don't want to do is work at the lowest level. We can work with distributing health insurance and deciding if migrants gets to stay or not. That's not what I want to do, I want to work with changing the structures, not the singular case.
> 
> I was also thinking about if some of these things are culture based. About traditions - Swedes are crazy about Christmas and Midsummer and those are the holidays I care about. My friend from Australia says that we are very fond of our traditions in general and I read that Sweden is a "sensing" country. Race, Culture and MBTI Maybe that's affecting?


 Future Reference: there's a method to my madness.

Alright, I'll keep the info you typed in mind as you answer this. As an individual, you have ideas that tell you that you can make improvements to things you dislike in the world. Think of specifics that you _dislike _in the world. Think of specifics that you _like _in the world. When you think of improving what you dislike, what are you thinking of? Just _anything_ you're thinking of; whats, hows, whens, wheres, whos, ifs... {Let your mind wander and tell me what comes to your mind when thinking that. As if you and I are just daydreaming and letting ideas out in the open air. Any amount of writing will do.}


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## Nyfiken (Jan 8, 2010)

Le9acyMuse said:


> Future Reference: there's a method to my madness.
> 
> Alright, I'll keep the info you typed in mind as you answer this. As an individual, you have ideas that tell you that you can make improvements to things you dislike in the world. Think of specifics that you _dislike _in the world. Think of specifics that you _like _in the world. When you think of improving what you dislike, what are you thinking of? Just _anything_ you're thinking of; whats, hows, whens, wheres, whos, ifs... {Let your mind wander and tell me what comes to your mind when thinking that. As if you and I are just daydreaming and letting ideas out in the open air. Any amount of writing will do.}


How nice to daydream with you Le9acyMuse! 

Well. I think that there are lots of things that's fucked up in our world unfortunately. The economical imbalance in the world, between west and most other parts, that's just wrong by definition. I find it incredibly unfair that one part of the world can live in great luxuries when the other is starving. I understand why it's this way, and I understand why not much is changing. But I still think it's stupidly wrong. 
And don't get me started on war. Seriously, how can power be more important than lives? How can you be so sure that you are right that it's worth killing others for it? And viewing others as evil and the enemy... have they met people? People are not evil, they are not an enemy. They are _people_. Just like the ones we call friends. I understand why there's wars too, and sure uprisings I support, when the war is only to overthrow someone that's making the world a horrible place. But it has to come for the ones suffering from it, with support from others.
I hate when economy gets to decide everything. When corporations can do whatever they want and when the economic interests are more important than the well being of the people. Yes, we need money to provide welfare. But if we get money at whatever cost, then we are curtailing on other values, like freedom and democracy. That is not acceptable. A good society is built on the good of the people, nothing else. Everything should be decided to support the people, and _all _the people, not just the ones that already have money and power.
And the frustrating thing is that it's so hard to do something about it. The world and societies are so incredibly complex and there's a reason things are as they are. It wont be enough with some people complaining. Things have to come to the point where it's so bad, it overboils. But people fighting for their rights are always good for something, to keep the spark alive until others start agreeing. The most important thing is not to get lazy, to think someone else will fix it. Because they wont. You are someone else. It's the best lesson for anyone that's unsatisfied with society.
If you want to change something you need some certain people on board. You can't just be an underground movement, you must attract the normal people and you can't get too extreme. You must use reason, listen to science. You must get the media on your side. You can't come off as angry and naive, even if you are. You must listen to others and meet their arguments, because every argument is good. You can't meet others with anger, you need to listen, make sure you understand and then make your point. I hate movements that call the other side idiots. They're not. They just have a different view than you. Understand theirs and maybe they'll understand yours, or at least the people listening will get it. 
The big problem with politics is that it attracts people with really strong opinions and they have already decided what to believe. They are not interested in understanding anything but their own view and that's not good for society. We need people that think, listens and then comes up with the best solution. Not the ones they usually support, not the easiest one or the one that looks good. The best one. That's what has made me not wanting to be in politics, people are extremely sure of themselves. I can't be that sure. I would stop and think when someone presents me with an argument. I would try to search out all the facts before I decided, because it's always more complicated and complex than the first look. 

That was a lot about the bad things in the world. What's good? Well, people are good. People fighting for themselves and others, people caring and thinking. All of the concern. The great thinkers, our political philosophers. The ones writing books, writing in news papers, the ones that want others to start thinking. The ones that does something, and that realizes that they are 'someone else'. The ones that acts. The ones with hope. The ones that's just a little bit naive, because without naivety you will give up before you've tried. And then nothing will ever happen. Because ones in a while, something does happen. A great leader, a great speaker or a great book will put a mark in history and things will change. It's easy to think that things will always be like this, but if we can't be sure of anything else, we can be sure that they wont. Societies are in constant change and everyone that is trying to change it will get a chance. We must therefore protect what we want and strive for what we dream of. 

What can change the world? I believe in United Nations, even if they are somewhat powerless. They have great importance as being morality and ideas. I believe in organizations such as red cross. They change the world every day. One bit at the time. And that's what we need, because there's no quick fix for the world. We need people fighting every single day to slowly, hopefully get one step closer something better. Every step is important.

This speech has made me cry more than once:


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## Le9acyMuse (Mar 12, 2010)

@Nyfiken It seems like you intend to influence your environment more demandingly than an XXXP user would, so definitely J. You do not appear Si or Ni dominant because you want to organize to get to your ideal (E) rather than actualize an abstraction (I). You're observant of social dynamics, so Fe, yep. It also seems as if you build from a present perspective, then intend for what you build to make an impact in the future tense. That's telling of a Sensor, whereas an Intuitivist would build or develop ideas from a future perspective, later intending for it to come into effect in the present tense. Sounds ESFJ, so looks like you were typed correctly earlier.

You have a lot of spirit. I like that. My mother is an ENFJ. Fe-doms and I don't seem to mix well since we have different expectations of Fe. They want to build on it and I want to remaster it. But I like the way you build. And I saw that speech. I was actually even thinking of it yesterday or the day before, and how music can make so much of a difference in capturing people's attention. Such a powerful speech deserves attention, so that card was well-played. Don't give up on what you set out for. Your words were very inspiring. I'd be sad if you ever threw in the towel. Thanks for letting me witness your passion.


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## Nyfiken (Jan 8, 2010)

Le9acyMuse said:


> @_Nyfiken_ It seems like you intend to influence your environment more demandingly than an XXXP user would, so definitely J. You do not appear Si or Ni dominant because you want to organize to get to your ideal (E) rather than actualize an abstraction (I). You're observant of social dynamics, so Fe, yep. It also seems as if you build from a present perspective, then intend for what you build to make an impact in the future tense. That's telling of a Sensor, whereas an Intuitivist would build or develop ideas from a future perspective, later intending for it to come into effect in the present tense. Sounds ESFJ, so looks like you were typed correctly earlier.
> 
> You have a lot of spirit. I like that. My mother is an ENFJ. Fe-doms and I don't seem to mix well since we have different expectations of Fe. They want to build on it and I want to remaster it. But I like the way you build. And I saw that speech. I was actually even thinking of it yesterday or the day before, and how music can make so much of a difference in capturing people's attention. Such a powerful speech deserves attention, so that card was well-played. Don't give up on what you set out for. Your words were very inspiring. I'd be sad if you ever threw in the towel. Thanks for letting me witness your passion.


Thank you Le9acyMuse, you have kind words and it makes me happy that I inspired you.  
You have a clear explanation too, which is helpful. I want to understand why I would be one or the other, not just accept what someone else has told me, and you let me understand. So thanks! 
To see if I got this right: an ENFJ would think more about what would happen in the future due to changes, and less about the current state? That makes sense, I find it a bit too complex to guess the future (and I've been advised not to by my professors). And I don't believe in utopia, or at least reaching it, society is way too complicated and too ever-shifting. Though making them up or fantasizing about them on a hypothetical level sure is fun. I always find flaws though. 

And I wont throw in the towel, if you promise not to stop being nice and helpful to people!


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