# Cynical Idealism



## de l'eau salée (Nov 10, 2008)

As an idealist, I often envision the best possible outcomes for things. 
But, I also, more often than envisioning the best possible outcome for things, envision the _worst _possible outcome for things.

Does anyone else experience this too? Is this related to idealism at all? Or would this just simply be considered pessimism? I should add that I only get this sort of feeling when things are involving myself. It may also relate to be somewhat self-loathing.

I think this way of thinking has been my downfall, in a way. I hold back, a lot. I am intimidated by people and reveal only tiny parts about myself that won't as easily open me up to vulnerability.


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## Munchies (Jun 22, 2009)

it seems reasonable since you are using your imagination, i doubt you would imagine something not extreme if you have a vivid imagination, your imagination takes you away.... you imagine extreme things.

But if its out of hand maybe consider seeing a doctor.

Not sure if i experience this, my mind is everywhere


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## Psilo (Apr 29, 2009)

I do the same thing. I always blow up situations far bigger than they really are, either good or bad. I used to envision only the worst, but I started forcing myself to also envision the best as well. The truth always lies in the middle.




> I think this way of thinking has been my downfall, in a way. I hold back, a lot. I am intimidated by people and reveal only tiny parts about myself that won't as easily open me up to vulnerability.


I do the same thing. I've been hurt too many times for exposing myself. You can never get back what you give out, and people can do what they will with the pieces of yourself that you give them. It takes a great deal of effort for someone to earn my trust. It may sound conceited or selfish that I put up obstacles to get close to me. Admittedly it probably has kept away many good people, but I can be more comfortable with those people who care enough to make it that far.


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## Marino (Jun 26, 2009)

I am an idealist in expectations but pessimist in practice. I hope for the best, but prepare for the worst and I think that is the most healthy way to be. roud:


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## imru2 (Jun 20, 2009)

Silhouetree said:


> Does anyone else experience this too? Is this related to idealism at all? Or would this just simply be considered pessimism? I should add that I only get this sort of feeling when things are involving myself. It may also relate to be somewhat self-loathing.



One of my really good friends recently pointed this out to me, even though I already knew it. I tend to visualize the worse possible outcome for any event or idea or happening _*if *_it involves me. The strange thing, as my friend pointedly stated, was that when it came to my friends or other people, I can imagine and exude pure positivity and optimism, even to a level I cannot achieve for myself in things that I am mildly sure of or things that would be predictable. 

It's really hard sometimes, I tend to envision elaborate ideas for people I care and love, encouraging them and pushing them to do better. But as soon as I focus back on myself, it's like a downpour of pessimism. Which is kind of weird I suppose. I do see the glass as half empty. I guess I just idealize reality for others, therefore somehow obtain a "half full" perspective. 

Is this what you mean?


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## de l'eau salée (Nov 10, 2008)

Munchies said:


> it seems reasonable since you are using your imagination, i doubt you would imagine something not extreme if you have a vivid imagination, your imagination takes you away.... you imagine extreme things.
> 
> But if its out of hand maybe consider seeing a doctor.
> 
> Not sure if i experience this, my mind is everywhere


Yeah, you're right. It seems like the N and F would create potentially create the most extreme of possibilities.



Psilo said:


> I do the same thing. I always blow up situations far bigger than they really are, either good or bad. I used to envision only the worst, but I started forcing myself to also envision the best as well. The truth always lies in the middle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think it's conceited or selfish at all. I do the same thing and it just makes the people I open up to more special and valuable to me.



Marino said:


> I am an idealist in expectations but pessimist in practice. I hope for the best, but prepare for the worst and I think that is the most healthy way to be. roud:


I think that's a very healthy way to be. I'm like this sometimes. It's a somewhat hopeful realistic sort of approach. 



imru2 said:


> One of my really good friends recently pointed this out to me, even though I already knew it. I tend to visualize the worse possible outcome for any event or idea or happening _*if *_it involves me. The strange thing, as my friend pointedly stated, was that when it came to my friends or other people, I can imagine and exude pure positivity and optimism, even to a level I cannot achieve for myself in things that I am mildly sure of or things that would be predictable.
> 
> It's really hard sometimes, I tend to envision elaborate ideas for people I care and love, encouraging them and pushing them to do better. But as soon as I focus back on myself, it's like a downpour of pessimism. Which is kind of weird I suppose. I do see the glass as half empty. I guess I just idealize reality for others, therefore somehow obtain a "half full" perspective.
> 
> Is this what you mean?


Yup! That's exactly what I mean and pretty much exactly what happens in my head.


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## Mikbert (Jul 19, 2009)

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Of course a person who deals in possibilities and recognizes the ideal outcome will also recognize the worst-case scenario, except when doing so would be considered a lack of faith in others. It's something I've always taken for granted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fulcrum (Aug 1, 2009)

Silhouetree said:


> As an idealist, I often envision the best possible outcomes for things.
> But, I also, more often than envisioning the best possible outcome for things, envision the _worst _possible outcome for things.


I'm similar, the only difference is that I come with 180 degrees shift. I envision worst possible scenario first, then I think of 'what it could be'. if we were all smarter, more benevolent, more mature.


Silhouetree said:


> Does anyone else experience this too? Is this related to idealism at all? Or would this just simply be considered pessimism? I should add that I only get this sort of feeling when things are involving myself. It may also relate to be somewhat self-loathing.
> 
> I think this way of thinking has been my downfall, in a way. I hold back, a lot. I am intimidated by people and reveal only tiny parts about myself that won't as easily open me up to vulnerability.


This... is surprisingly familiar.

It is perhaps related to ultra-idealism. We expect too much from the world, we see things as they could be [i.e. we envision world with no ICBM's, cancer cured, Mars colonised etc.] and then, we see the world and mess it's in. And we inevitably get depressed. What we don't see is small victories, in battles fought and won each day. And that is our true downfall. Well, my downfall at least.


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## sartreality (Aug 5, 2009)

Silhouetree said:


> As an idealist, I often envision the best possible outcomes for things.
> But, I also, more often than envisioning the best possible outcome for things, envision the _worst _possible outcome for things.
> 
> Does anyone else experience this too? Is this related to idealism at all? Or would this just simply be considered pessimism? I should add that I only get this sort of feeling when things are involving myself. It may also relate to be somewhat self-loathing.
> ...


I'm the opposite. Given the choice between playing it safe and taking a chance, I will most often choose to take the chance and not hold back, with the one exception of close friendships. My idealism overrides my worst-case scenario thinking almost always. 

While there's a benefit to this in that I've experienced a lot of enjoyment and some success in life, the downfall is that I've also experienced a lot of pain and set-back. 

I have little problem in trying something new. I figure, what have I got to lose if I'm learning something and meeting new people and having new experiences, even though I'm an introvert. Thinking of worst case scenarios although I can do it, I don't like doing it. I figure if something shitty happens it will happen regardless of whether I worried about it or not. 

That's where my failing comes in though, I think...in making contingency plans sometimes. I've started doing this though, pretty late in life, but I'm learning! LOL

I have CAA. So, if something goes wrong with my car, which it innevitably will...at least I've got that.

It's a start :laughing:


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## PeacePassion (Jun 9, 2009)

Don't you in pretty much get what you prepare for? I mean, if you go preparing for the worst, isn't it likely you'll create a situation that makes the worst the most likely? 

I think I'm aware of the down side to a fault perhaps, but I cling to my idealistic imagination like a life-raft. And in retrospect, I'm not sure I would have made it through half the crap I've made it through, from the annoying to the traumatic, if it were any other way. I've lived so many lives in that sense. 

I have to agree though, when it comes to something involving myself, any evidence that... how do I put this....any evidence that fault is being found with any of my faults makes me shut down and retreat and think along the lines of "who the heck did i think i was, trying to do that?" for whatever it was i was trying to do. this is not good though, and i've been trying to push myself through situations where that retreat/down on myself mechanism gets triggered, and i've actually accomplished a lot that way. i'm not giving any examples so hopefully this makes sense. and by pushing myself through a situation, instead of retreating, it gets me to improve my weaknesses or perceived weaknesses, whether they were really an issue or not. not that it's easy, it's not. not. at. all. but worth it, perhaps.


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## Wilco (Aug 11, 2009)

The Cautious seldom Err. 

As long as you are aware that the cosmos has no set ideal on the way things should go, you should take into account every possibility going forward. If you are aware that a road is capable of having bumps, when you eventually hit them it will come as no surprise.


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## TotalPigeon (Aug 8, 2009)

I used to be rather bad for being held back by envisioning the worst possible outcome, which put me off doing some things in the past. But I find, if you can have a vividly unpleasant imagination in this kind of situation (like myself) you're probably putting yourself through more agony sitting there and imagining everything that can go wrong than by actually doing it. At least then you only have to put up with one outcome, and it might even be a good one, and whatever happens you can put your mind to work on the constructive side of the experience, working out how to do better next time.

I'm not saying just jump in, mind. There's still room for preparation and caution. It's just to acknowledge when the time has come to actually do what you should be doing and not needlessly hold back any longer than that. Sitting there and envisioning bad outcomes does nothing but chip away at your self confidence when you do get around to doing it.

I'd also suggest looking at what you consider your vulnerabilities. Maybe your society is less easy-going than mine, but when you consider the world today and all the weird people in it, anything you're afraid of revealing should have to be pretty extreme before anyone good-natured started to condemn or mock it.


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## sartreality (Aug 5, 2009)

Peace&Quiet said:


> Don't you in pretty much get what you prepare for? I mean, if you go preparing for the worst, isn't it likely you'll create a situation that makes the worst the most likely?


Sometimes, yeah. You make a very good point. Obsessive dwelling on possible negative outcomes or worst case scenario thinking, _does _have the risk of becoming self-fulfilling prophecy.



Peace&Quiet said:


> I think I'm aware of the down side to a fault perhaps, but I cling to my idealistic imagination like a life-raft. And in retrospect, *I'm not sure I would have made it through half the crap I've made it through, from the annoying to the traumatic, if it were any other way.* I've lived so many lives in that sense.


EXactly! I totally agree with you. This is where INFPs shine. In times of hardship and extreme doubt, when most would give up because they only see so much negative, we hold onto that light at the end of the tunnel, or the life raft of hope, as you put it. And it _does_ make us stronger. I believe, at our best, we can be an inspiration to others as well :happy:





Peace&Quiet said:


> I have to agree though, when it comes to something involving myself, any evidence that... how do I put this....any evidence that fault is being found with any of my faults makes me shut down and retreat and think along the lines of "who the heck did i think i was, trying to do that?" for whatever it was i was trying to do. this is not good though, and i've been trying to push myself through situations where that retreat/down on myself mechanism gets triggered, and i've actually accomplished a lot that way.


That's awesome. It's so hard to do too. 



Peace&Quiet said:


> i'm not giving any examples so hopefully this makes sense. and by pushing myself through a situation, instead of retreating,* it gets me to improve my weaknesses or perceived weaknesses, whether they were really an issue or not. not that it's easy, it's not. not. at. all. but worth it,* perhaps.


I know exactly what you're talking about without you having to give examples.


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## MilkyWay132 (Jul 15, 2010)

I have the same problem. When I'm feeling excited, I always imagine things to better than they are. When I'm nervous or anxious, I imagine things that things will turn out worser than they do. I can't help it. My imagination sometimes just runs off on me, and I imagine different kinds of things. I usually do this when I have nothing else to do. For example, sometimes I will look at a person and imagine them with angel wings, a halo, and a robe... And to make things worse, once I have a image ingrained in my mind, it's hard to get rid of it. Also, I sometimes read about a character doing a thing, and literally put myself in their shoes. I can vividly imagine myself doing what they are doing, and can feel just like they do. I think that has to do with how I value sympathy, compassion, and trying to put yourself in someone else's shoes. I try not to do that with villains in books, because I do not want to imagine myself doing horrible things. I have to block out the image of the villain completely, and think about something else for awhile. Overall, I just feel like I am strengthening my connection with someone by imagining myself acting like that very person or character.


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## ThisIsWhereIrunAway (Oct 25, 2010)

I feel like we are just able to see the whole range of what possible emotions could result from a certain stimuli. We are able to envision the worst and best case scenario because I guess we have Ne. I feel like idealism is just a bi-product of being able to imagine and envision the best possible scenario.


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## MilkyWay132 (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah. You're right---when I hate the way a story ends, or do not like what happened in it, "what if's" are my way of coping. For example, when Anakin became Darth Vader, I thought: But what if he didn't become evil? What if he had never been tempted by the Dark Side? And the image that comes to mind is appeasing. So, I go and read a fanfic, to make my dream come true. After I'm done with it, I imagine what might happen after it. I also like get a real kick out of seeing how people react to things---If I were more outgoing, I would do random things to see how people would react to them. I like to gather different types of characters from comics, games, and books and see how they would all react to each other if they met up. Change has always been a fascinating concept for me, and I love fantasizing how things would be if everything was the opposite of what it was---both in fiction and real life.


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## benfoldsfive dude (Nov 24, 2009)

I am an idealist with my introverted feelings, but I'm a cynical being with my extroverted intuition. I talk about the worst thing that could happen in a situation, but I think of the most ideal outcome, or process to that outcome, in my mind. Perhaps someone should just listen to my ideas in real life, but then it would be hard to explain. Oh look, here goes my "cynical idealism" again.:crazy:


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

I think a combination of idealism and being in the now can be healthy.

Idealism is there to stop you from thinking you can never improve or change things simply out of solid face value. Cynicism is there to make sure you face things as they are even when you do not like to see them.


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