# So I found this letter my bf wrote about his ex gf.



## WindowLicker (Aug 3, 2010)

He is an ENFj enneagram 4. He's had two girlfriends, both broke up with him for other people. Well I was organizing his papers last night because he was moving in with me when I found this letter. At first I thought it was about me, but then I kept reading. It broke my heart. I can't even look at him now. 

"What do I see when I look at her picture
I see my heart 
I see the only person I would spend all of my time with no matter how mad I was at her or she was at me.
I see the perso I would want next to me fighting zombies while going through hell.
I see her laughing like she does.
I see the person that shes through the bullshit I dish out.
The person who hits me when I'm stupid
and lets me know when to straighten up, because we all know I need that sometimes.\
I see the time we had together and the reason why I feel the way I do. 
I see the goofy dancer with a twisted smile.
I see the reason why I'm still here. (in this state)
I see the reason why I fear loss.
I see the person I have the same thought and dreams with even when we're not around eachother.
I see the person I want to spend this life and beyond with, to bear my children and to grow old then die with. ->
Then I see the cause to do what I would never do.
I see the person I would scratch, bite, smack, eat, and kiss.
I see the person I would call home to.
I see the person I'd talk to for hours.
I see the person I would bear watching lame MTV shows and more.
The person who I would make love to, the person who would make love to me.
I see that who inspires me.
I see Leela from futurama.
The crazy moon girl and also insanity.
I see nothing ordinary or anything close to it.
I see the moment we hung out after her dance and Benny drunk.
I see looking at the stars with in a car. 
I see the times we messed around while in her new relationship.
I see why I can't quit.
I see every embarrassing moment we had.
I see that my feelings havn't changed no matter what version of her it is. I see that I'm still in love with her its ust that shes not in love with me."

Last night I just kinda withdrew and shut down, I looked at a lot of papers, and there was nothing written anywhere about me anywhere. I can never compete with that, he truely loved her and even though she broke up with him, he still went to their house, hung out with her...etc. for almost a year into our relationship. He ripped up a picture of her like 2 weeks ago that he refused to get rid of for that entire first year almost. Maybe he gave up, but I feel like a rebound that he just goes through the motions, and words with without actually meaning it.
The problem is, all of those things about "you're the only person I would..." He doesn't do any of that for me. He has told me that I am his "soulmate" "love of his life." but if thats so why are all the letters he writes about me seem like he has to think, shallow, and empty, blame, angry. And I only get them when he's apologizing for something which he does ALL the time for stuff he does thats inconsiderate or rude. Today I told him that this relationship wasn't working out and all he could say is this is what they always do. Girls always leave him for some guy or girl w/e and they never say why. I can't talk to him because he starts to blame me, gets angry and becomes demanding. I can't deal with it. I don't know what to do. I am miserable without him, but now I'm miserable with him. He will never love me as much as he did her, ever and now I can't believe him when he says he loves me at all. I want to be with someone who loves me that much, but its not him and it never will be.


----------



## Aerorobyn (Nov 11, 2009)

1. I've wrote letters to/about certain ex boyfriends that I did not write for the other. It didn't necessarily mean I cared any more or less for one than the other, it just meant I did different things to show appreciation. 

2. Red flag, imo: 


WindowLicker said:


> I can't talk to him because he starts to blame me, gets angry and becomes demanding. I can't deal with it. I don't know what to do.


You don't want somebody you can't even talk to, and somebody who puts all blame on you. You would end up very miserable in the long run. These types of men usually turn out to be the ones who enjoy controlling their women - perhaps there is a reason his ex girlfriends left him for somebody else. 

Personally, you already see how miserable you are, I would just call it quits. If anything, though, avoid moving in together right now...have a clear mind before taking such a big step.


----------



## Kainita (Aug 31, 2011)

^ I agree. I would avoid putting yourself in a position that is harder to get out of. Your faith is shaken, you may bring up the letter if you are curious, but I would let a friend or family member know about your plan before doing it. I am not saying he will get violent, but if he is in the state you make him seem to be in, then his feelings are ruling him and that makes people unpredictable.


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

People seriously shouldn't talk about exes. It's bad territory. People also shouldn't get hung up about people that they aren't involved with anymore. 

@OP, since you know now, I think the only reasonable thing to do is tell him what happened and try to discuss it. If he can't talk calmly about it, I'd reconsider sharing a house with him.


----------



## MegaTuxRacer (Sep 7, 2011)

It could very well be his healing process of just getting how he feels about these things on paper, sort of out in the world. I mean I don't have all of the information about this that's needed to tell you what's going on. A hunch is that he feels somewhat conflicted about the situation. Ultimately, you have all of the information you need to make a decision. Even if his intentions are good, is it worth it for you to stay?


----------



## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

What makes you think it's okay to snoop through his personal belongings and post his private letters, which are not even about you, on the internet? I don't see a point to this thread. You seem to have already made up your mind.


----------



## WindowLicker (Aug 3, 2010)

I know if I try to talk to him here is how it will go.

"I'm with YOU now. This was my PAST. Maybe I felt that way, but I'm with YOU I live with YOU and we are together, and I'm working for our FUTURE together, our future family... etc."


----------



## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

You need to tell him why. I know someone who I thought was ISTJ who might actually be ISFJ, and I'm honestly starting to wonder if this is an unhealthy Fe thing, or if it just has nothing to do with personality type, but is a serious issue certain men have.

Certain men always want the woman they can't have, love to play victim, and if you don't tell him how ridiculous and emotionally immature he's being, he's just going to keep getting dumped.

He only thinks she's the love of his life because she left him. This type always does. Leave him and he'll think the same of you, probably. 

This is HIS issue, not yours. He's got emotional/intimacy issues. 

I don't think you should just leave him without telling him why, though, I strongly encourage you to hold your ground and tell him exactly what's wrong.


----------



## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

@*WindowLicker*

The tone of the 'poem' feels very past tense as if talking about a second life lived long ago, nostalgised to draw out more positives than negatives or speaking of requited feelings; almost as if describing the dualities of 'one person' in a cherry picked list of unrealities that cannot be... as if describing qualities akin to many or the 'perfect match' unattainable (when a photo only portrays a snapshot of life not substance or 'soul' alone).

The problem with creativities perspective alone is that its often seen as a route to the subconscious mind and may highlight much but even Freud or Jung agreed that insights or awarenesses gained were at risk of being very 'in the moment' often falling into the territory of archetypes or anima/us. 

Sounds like you both may need a cooling off period to reflect then open frank communication to mete out the emotional chaff from the deep Wheat (the heart of the matter left undiscussed), otherwise the risk of unresolved conflict could prove harmful to you both in future relationships/the hear and now.

@*fourtines*

Broken 'thanks button' but well said


----------



## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

I have written previous "love" letters to ex's to get my feelings organised but I have never sent them though. I defiantly don't feel that way now, because I am over them and if anyone ever found the ones I have somehow misplaced (I usually throw them away) I would be embarrassed.


----------



## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

I wonder if this "letter' was staged for you to find? There are people that do things to spark a reaction of their partners...hmmm?


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

SuburbanLurker said:


> What makes you think it's okay to snoop through his personal belongings and post his private letters, which are not even about you, on the internet? I don't see a point to this thread. You seem to have already made up your mind.


I think it's disingenuous to call what she did "snooping." She was helping him organize papers so that they could move in together, and it sounds like she accidentally found this one while she was helping him organize/pack. It also does not sound like she has made up her mind; she appears from what we have read to be extremely conflicted about the issue. Try to be a little less judgmental, please?

Accidentally finding something while helping with something is a far cry different than, say, going through someone's emails or texts or the files on their computer.


----------



## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

koalaroo said:


> I think it's disingenuous to call what she did "snooping." She was helping him organize papers so that they could move in together, and it sounds like she accidentally found this one while she was helping him organize/pack. It also does not sound like she has made up her mind; she appears from what we have read to be extremely conflicted about the issue. Try to be a little less judgmental, please?
> 
> Accidentally finding something while helping with something is a far cry different than, say, going through someone's emails or texts or the files on their computer.


I understand where you're coming from. We both don't have a fucken clue about her guy, but the thing is, if she offered to help him don't you think he should have had that conscience to tell himself, "oh shit, that letter is there!". I know I still have a pic of my ex on my pc. Once I get serious with someone, that pic will be deleted and forgotten. Cause I have moved on... Hmmm? 

Seems like something is missing from this story though...


----------



## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

Deleted due to harshness


----------



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Kyandigaru said:


> I understand where you're coming from. We both don't have a fucken clue about her guy, but the thing is, if she offered to help him don't you think he should have had that conscience to tell himself, "oh shit, that letter is there!". I know I still have a pic of my ex on my pc. Once I get serious with someone, that pic will be deleted and forgotten. Cause I have moved on... Hmmm?
> 
> Seems like something is missing from this story though...


That's very conspiratorial and nothing to support it.


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Kyandigaru said:


> I understand where you're coming from. We both don't have a fucken clue about her guy, but the thing is, if she offered to help him don't you think he should have had that conscience to tell himself, "oh shit, that letter is there!". I know I still have a pic of my ex on my pc. Once I get serious with someone, that pic will be deleted and forgotten. Cause I have moved on... Hmmm?
> 
> Seems like something is missing from this story though...


I do feel like we need a little bit more information than what was provided, but I think based on what she has provided we can provide her with some advice that might be worthwhile. I can't really say I have any hard-and-fast good advice for a situation like this for her, though. 

I get the sense that she needs to ask him about the letter in a direct, non-accusatory manner. From there, she must either move on if he isn't amenable to proper discussion, or she needs to find a way to live with him. I hate that it boils down to a dichotomy, but other than this, I can't provide much advice. 

Relationships essentially boil down to boundaries, compromise and communication. From what I've gleaned from what she has said, she is currently in a mental state where she is unable to foster communication. This is problematic, and she needs to find a way to communicate with him without being accusatory.


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

@WindowLicker -

Would showing him the paper and asking him how much he still loves her cause any problems?

Do you know what kinds of words set him off when speaking to him? (For instance, words that set me off in arguments with my boyfriend are when he labels sarcasm as "passive aggressive" and labels any issues I bring up "unimportant drama".)


----------



## MindBomb (Jul 7, 2010)

Forget about the crappy and poorly written letter that he wrote to his ex-girlfriend. That's not the issue. It's what is currently going on in the relationship that has you unfulfilled. Like this: 



> ...but I feel like a rebound that he just goes through the motions, and words with without actually meaning it...He doesn't do any of that for me...why are all the letters he writes about me seem like he has to think, shallow, and empty, blame, angry. And I only get them when he's apologizing for something which he does ALL the time for stuff he does thats inconsiderate or rude.


This is what you have to think about and communicate coherently to him. Your *reaction* to the letter is symptomatic about how you feel about the relationship. Because if all was well, then it wouldn't be a big deal...

On the other hand, I learned something new about love:



> I see the person I would bear watching lame MTV shows and more.


I knew I was doing it wrong...


----------



## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

koalaroo said:


> I think it's disingenuous to call what she did "snooping." She was helping him organize papers so that they could move in together, and it sounds like she accidentally found this one while she was helping him organize/pack. It also does not sound like she has made up her mind; she appears from what we have read to be extremely conflicted about the issue. Try to be a little less judgmental, please?
> 
> Accidentally finding something while helping with something is a far cry different than, say, going through someone's emails or texts or the files on their computer.


_"looked at a lot of papers, and there was nothing written anywhere about me anywhere."_

Sounds like snooping to me...but that's not half as bad as going behind someone's back and putting their heartfelt love letter up on the internet for a bunch of strangers to read. 

Talk about an abuse of trust and invasion of privacy.


----------



## WindowLicker (Aug 3, 2010)

koalaroo said:


> @WindowLicker -
> 
> Would showing him the paper and asking him how much he still loves her cause any problems?
> 
> Do you know what kinds of words set him off when speaking to him? (For instance, words that set me off in arguments with my boyfriend are when he labels sarcasm as "passive aggressive" and labels any issues I bring up "unimportant drama".)


I don't know. Thats a possibility that he might say yes, and thats what I'm afraid of. Or he'll say no, but I wont feel any better because I wont believe him. Which is also what I'm afraid of. Also another issue is that he doesn't "have the cause to do what he would never do" for me. He would put going to his sisters wedding out of state instead of an extremely personal important emergency type matter, forcing me to deal with it by myself, buying a tux and shoes (instead of renting), giving money to his friend, and then not having any money to pay for college, which he said I could depend on him for. I don't believe he loves me as much as this even though he tells me that I'm his "soulmate" how can I believe him if this list means something to him and he wont even do that for me. 

Words that set him off: Questions that complicate our relationship, lead to the truth about things, or cause me to feel bad from knowing. 

He believes he is the easiest person to love, and so am I. Yet he makes subliminal comments about girls that look like or portray his ex (like leela) and I read this and it all makes sense.


----------



## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

WindowLicker said:


> I don't know. Thats a possibility that he might say yes, and thats what I'm afraid of. Or he'll say no, but I wont feel any better. Which is also what I'm afraid of.
> 
> Words that set him off: Questions that complicate our relationship, lead to the truth about things, or cause me to feel bad from knowing.
> 
> *He believes he is the easiest person to love, and so am I. Yet he makes subliminal comments about girls that look like or portray his ex and I read this and it all makes sense*.


Me no like this!


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

SuburbanLurker said:


> _"looked at a lot of papers, and there was nothing written anywhere about me anywhere."_
> 
> Sounds like snooping to me...but that's not half as bad as going behind someone's back and putting their heartfelt love letter up on the internet for a bunch of strangers to read.
> 
> Talk about an abuse of trust and invasion of privacy.


Not really an invasion of privacy since she was organizing them: "_Well I was organizing his papers last night because he was moving in with me when I found this letter._" 

Take it all in context.


----------



## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

koalaroo said:


> Not really an invasion of privacy since she was organizing them: "_Well I was organizing his papers last night because he was moving in with me when I found this letter._"
> 
> Take it all in context.


Posting his private letter on a public forum without his consent isn't an invasion of privacy? Christ...some people just boggle my mind.

Here's context for you: Insecure, paranoid girl snoops through boyfriend's personal belongings and posts them on the internet with a transparent cover story in an attempt to validate said paranoia and insecurity. Congrats for playing right into that.


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

SuburbanLurker said:


> Posting his private letter on a public forum without his consent isn't an invasion of privacy? Christ...some people just boggle my mind.


Do you even know what an invasion of privacy entails?

It's a legal term, and I don't believe it applies here. It isn't defamatory because she hasn't revealed his real name. He gave her permission at the least to go through and organize his papers.

Thoughts from @Paradox1987?


----------



## SuburbanLurker (Sep 26, 2010)

koalaroo said:


> Do you even know what an invasion of privacy entails?
> 
> It's a legal term, and I don't believe it applies here.


Jesus H. Christ 

11/10 you got me


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

SuburbanLurker said:


> Here's context for you: Insecure, paranoid girl snoops through boyfriend's personal belongings and posts them on the internet with a transparent cover story in an attempt to validate said paranoia and insecurity. Congrats for playing right into that.


Can you not troll/be judgmental in this case? That's pure conjecture on your part, and you have no supporting evidence other than one line that's within the context of actually organizing the guy's papers.


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

@WindowLicker - So, I'm willing to take your word for it. Did you actually organize his papers or were you snooping? 

I'm sure there will be detractors no matter how you answer, but if you really were snooping rather than simply organizing his papers and reading through them then that speaks to larger problems in the relationship. That is to say, trust issues on your part. If you were snooping, and you end the relationship over what you found, I would suggest not snooping in subsequent relationships.

If you really were merely going through and organizing his papers, then I think it was OK for you to have read it. I'm not 100% sure it was ethical to post the entirety of the message, but I think revealing snippets of it would have been relevant and not unethical.


----------



## Reicheru (Sep 24, 2011)

Aerorobyn said:


> 2. Red flag, imo:
> 
> 
> You don't want somebody you can't even talk to, and somebody who puts all blame on you. You would end up very miserable in the long run. These types of men usually turn out to be the ones who enjoy controlling their women - perhaps there is a reason his ex girlfriends left him for somebody else.
> ...


my thoughts exactly.

OP... staying with somebody who instills feelings of inadequecy in you is not good for you, and if every disagreement ends in blame-games & guilt trips, nothing is ever going to progress in this relationship. been there, done that.

this is why, when my boyfriend & disagree, i_ always_ push for a [mutually agreed upon] solution although his natural reaction is to try and avoid conflict at any cost. i reassure him it is not an attack on his character. it's kind of like twiddling with knobs & dials, adjusting the settings in the relationship accordingly.

avoidance solves nothing; neither does personal attacks.

thankfully he is always willing to listen to me & vice versa, and we always work things out with resolve. it is a comfortable relationship. 

i've digressed. - when was this letter written (if you know) and how long ago have they been broken up for?


----------



## WindowLicker (Aug 3, 2010)

I was organizing junk mail, medical bills and art into piles when I found it. He warned me that there would be things in there from over two years ago as well, so to not get "mad" if I came across anything. I think he was being either ignorant, or inconsiderate. 
@Reicheru
They broke up two summers ago, but he was still invited to their house for dinner by her mom for almost a year, and her mom still keeps in touch with him.\



*To all posters: What exactly (not theoretical) is a way to confront this issue, more specifically what types of questions should I ask to get a clear answer without sounding like I already know the answer, or sounding accusatory?*


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

WindowLicker said:


> Organizing. About an hours worth of medical bills, junk mail, and art. He warned me that there would be things in there from over two years ago as well, but he still wanted me to do it. I think he was being either ignorant, or inconsiderate.


*"**Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's razor

*^ from my signature.


----------



## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

Do not ever, ever be in a relationship with someone who cannot maturely communicate and hear you out. Clearly, you haven't been feeling loved/happy. The "does he love his ex-girlfriend?" bit seems almost irrelevant.


----------



## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

WindowLicker said:


> *To all posters: What exactly (not theoretical) is a way to confront this issue, more specifically what types of questions should I ask to get a clear answer without sounding like I already know the answer, or sounding accusatory?*


The only thing that I can personally think of is to ask him how much he still cares for his ex girlfriend.


----------



## searcheagle (Sep 4, 2011)

koalaroo said:


> The only thing that I can personally think of is to ask him how much he still cares for his ex girlfriend.


That's too obvious.... It will never work!:dry:


----------



## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

@_WindowLicker_

1. He wrote this over two years ago, and he wrote nothing about you. People's habits change. I used to do certain things for boys I like that I no longer do. I no long talk about them with friends, for instance. Maybe he stopped writing love letters because he thinks they're silly. There could be a thousand reasons why he wrote that letter about her and none about you. Your relationship, as far as I know, hasn't ended, and theirs have, which prompted that letter. Maybe he would write one about you. Who knows.

2. He knew what you might find and didn't want you to get mad. I think it's fairly innocuous? Try taking him at his word.

3. You obviously have other issues to sort out with him. Do that. Take @_koalaroo_'s advice. And next time, try capturing the tone and content of a letter rather than posting it. I assure you he would _not_​ have taken well to your posting this. If he had written it about you then you have some right to it, but it's not even about you.


----------



## GROUNDED_ONE (May 23, 2012)

delete post


----------



## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

RedFraggle said:


> I heard about this! That is diabolical and makes me queasy.
> 
> Either way. Speaking from only my experience, I didn't entertain a relationship until I felt I was ready to put the past behind me. Now that doesn't mean I didn't learn a few things from my past. Learn something from this, this is a sign.


Don't assume. We don't have his side of the story.


----------



## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

RedFraggle said:


> I heard about this! That is diabolical and makes me queasy.
> 
> Either way. Speaking from only my experience, I didn't entertain a relationship until I felt I was ready to put the past behind me. Now that doesn't mean I didn't learn a few things from my past. Learn something from this, this is a sign.


 @RedFraggle My ex did shit like that. Purposely leave things around for me to find. I stopped dating him when it all came to me. Some people love drama. 

Generally, since when does an opinion [of someone else's situation], need something to support it? .......

yeah, I don't know either -_-


----------



## GROUNDED_ONE (May 23, 2012)

delete post


----------



## Kyandigaru (Mar 11, 2012)

Persephone said:


> Don't assume. We don't have his side of the story.


LOL I dont think he's going to register and tell it.


----------



## Persephone (Nov 14, 2009)

Kyandigaru said:


> LOL I dont think he's going to register and tell it.


He's probably not. Even if he would, given what she posted I don't think the OP would be quite keen on having him see the first post anyway. But OP is clearly not rational right now and the least we can do is stay detached and work with whatever evidence we have and give her _possibilities_ of what this can mean, rather than interpreting things negatively.


----------

