# Better Themes for the 27 Subtypes



## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Hotaru said:


> I know I'm probably derailing the thread, I'm sorry about it, but I've been struggling with my enneatype for so long it's ridiculous xD so far I know I'm a 479 (in any combination) and probably a sx first but other than that, I'm kinda lost~ any help (even through pm) would be fun and well... helpful!


Actually, the best way to know yourself is to... talk to yourself.

Sit down every day, walk through the day. Remember what happened through the day, then question why you felt that way. Or question yourself even in the moment. Capture those feelings and be aware of them. Then ask why why why. Keep going deeper until it's so painful you can't breathe. Then, you'll know yourself and why you act a certain way.

Looking outside for answers helps only in conjunction with knowing yourself. Help from outside is going for breadth in knowledge. Help from within is going for depth.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Reluctanine said:


> Actually, the best way to know yourself is to... talk to yourself.
> 
> Sit down every day, walk through the day. Remember what happened through the day, then question why you felt that way. Or question yourself even in the moment. Capture those feelings and be aware of them. Then ask why why why. Keep going deeper until it's so painful you can't breathe. Then, you'll know yourself and why you act a certain way.
> 
> Looking outside for answers helps only in conjunction with knowing yourself. Help from outside is going for breadth in knowledge. Help from within is going for depth.


The thing is that I'm plenty introspective, I know who I am, I know what drives me and I know that my main focus is to be myself and bring this side of me out, to let it express its colors without having to conform to anyone's rules. Basically listen to your heart and anything like that~! But this really helps little when it comes to the enneagram because there are various "boxes" and I have to squish myself into one if I want to learn more about it and grow as a person... of course I know I have much more depth than that, just like every human being (though some more than others) but it's still extremely limiting, you know? I also take very little seriously, other than my feelings and what makes me... me, so it's not too weird than I'm hopping from one possibility to another until I find the shoe that fits.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Hotaru said:


> The thing is that I'm plenty introspective, I know who I am, I know what drives me and I know that my main focus is to be myself and bring this side of me out, to let it express its colors without having to conform to anyone's rules. Basically listen to your heart and anything like that~! But this really helps little when it comes to the enneagram because there are various "boxes" and I have to squish myself into one if I want to learn more about it and grow as a person... of course I know I have much more depth than that, just like every human being (though some more than others) but it's still extremely limiting, you know? I also take very little seriously, other than my feelings and what makes me... me, so it's not too weird than I'm hopping from one possibility to another until I find the shoe that fits.


Enneagram is about the ugly side of yourself, not the colourful, follow your heart part.

If you really want to find out about yourself, open another topic to discuss about yourself? I don't feel comfortable flooding this thread because @Swordsman of Mana put in a lot of work thinking about this.

What are the ugly parts of yourself? That's the question you have to be comfortable disclosing in public if you really want to do it.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Reluctanine said:


> Enneagram is about the ugly side of yourself, not the colourful, follow your heart part.
> 
> If you really want to find out about yourself, open another topic to discuss about yourself? I don't feel comfortable flooding this thread because @Swordsman of Mana put in a lot of work thinking about this.
> 
> What are the ugly parts of yourself? That's the question you have to be comfortable disclosing in public if you really want to do it.


I wasn't implying that I was looking for rainbows and sunshine but this is totally not the right place for it!
Not sure about making a thread about it but if anyone wants to tackle this, they can PM me anytime 

/// derailment over


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## Veggie (May 22, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> problem is, probably ~40% of people are severely mistyped and maybe another 30% are mildly mistyped (ie, Sexual 8w7 who thinks he's a 7, 6w5 who thinks he's really 5...stuff like that).


Where are you getting these numbers from? Is it possible that you're projecting a lack of self awareness onto others? (The point that you're tagged as "unknown" was one that I was going to make too).

Not an attack, a genuine question. Awaiting your insightful and introspective response 

Interesting OP, btw.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Veggie said:


> Where are you getting these numbers from?


mostly just an approximation based on experience. 



> Is it possible that you're projecting a lack of self awareness onto others? (The point that you're tagged as "unknown" was one that I was going to make too).


it's possible, but mostly it's 
1) that people's self reports and their _behavior_ don't match at all most of the time. 
2) people have a very poor understanding about what each type is really about, especially subtypes and, frankly, it's hard to blame them (lots of nebulous content, BS interpretations etc. getting your hands on good material can be tricky)



> Not an attack, a genuine question.


didn't take it as one =)



> Awaiting your insightful and introspective response


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## bombsaway (Nov 29, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *So 6: "Allegiance "*


Could you expand on this one? I think you also recently said on here (correct me if I'm wrong and it wasn't you) that So 6 was the most boring type so I'm interested in your overall impression / opinion of so dom sixes.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

bombsaway said:


> Could you expand on this one? I think you also recently said on here (correct me if I'm wrong and it wasn't you) that So 6 was the most boring type so I'm interested in your overall impression / opinion of so dom sixes.


I don't recall saying that (though I do think they're boring, along with Social 9, Self Preservation 4 and most 5s who are not Sx dom)

I like "Allegiance" better than "Duty" because "Duty" is more the 1-ish, Captain America Social 6. other 6s are more a bit more back-stab-y, political and bureaucratic (like Umbridge from Harry Potter)


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## J Squirrel (Jun 2, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *Sx 5: "Romance"* ("Soulmate" could work too)


Soulmate, by its very definition, implies there be another other half of the pairing.

Hope! I think this is what hope feels like!


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## Ummon (Jun 16, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *Sp 1: "Perfectionism"*
> *So 1: "Order and Authority"* ("Rigidity" and non-adaptability don't do them justice. many Social 1s are highly adaptable and advocates for necessary change)
> *So 2: "Glory" *("ambition" is too general. 3s, 8s, and Sp 7s are all extremely ambitious, but glory and admiration are at the root of 2's ambitions)
> *Sp 4: "Sacrifice"* (I feel it fits Sp 4 better than So 7)
> ...


Based on people I know with these subtypes, I think these are perfect!


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## bombsaway (Nov 29, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I don't recall saying that (though I do think they're boring, along with Social 9, Self Preservation 4 and most 5s who are not Sx dom)
> 
> I like "Allegiance" better than "Duty" because "Duty" is more the 1-ish, Captain America Social 6. other 6s are more a bit more back-stab-y, political and bureaucratic (like Umbridge from Harry Potter)


Any positives about so 6? :tongue:

Also, allegiance could also be to counter culture ideas and not just a mindless following of the accepted system, no? Reason I'm so curious is because I think I'm a so 6 (if you've got time and an opinion I have a type me thread here :wink: ) but I definitely don't relate to the 'lawful good' image portrayed here.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

This thread was the perfect eye opener, this guy knows what he's talkin' about ♥♥♥


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## WardRhiannon (Feb 1, 2012)

Outsider for the social 4 is pretty accurate. I believe the reason that I'm a so-dom is because I was bullied as a kid and that made me feel like an outsider and more focused on the social aspect of things. I also identify more with outsider groups and tend to make friends with weird people/outsiders.


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## mimesis (Apr 10, 2012)

bombsaway said:


> Any positives about so 6? :tongue:
> 
> Also, allegiance could also be to counter culture ideas and not just a mindless following of the accepted system, no? Reason I'm so curious is because I think I'm a so 6 (if you've got time and an opinion I have a type me thread here :wink: ) but I definitely don't relate to the 'lawful good' image portrayed here.


Throughout our existence, except for the last 10k year, (when we are said to have developed ego consciousness) humans have lived in communities of max 150 people. Of course nowadays the instinct can manifest in using an iphone or playing a videogame, tupperware parties, whatever, but try and see it on a more abstract level. Or imagine it manifesting 20k or 5k years ago.

But yeah allegiance to common cause, whatever defines common for you (starting from 2 or more), or cause. But counterculture is sub-culture (counter establishment), there is a "common" denominator, on a higher level. Like democracy, personal freedom, etc.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *Sx 1: "Justice and Retribution"*


This aptly describes Sx 1 when at a level of overt anger. My righteous anger rage almost always follows this theme. Kudos.

However, when it comes to general description, I believe that "zealot" is better. I'm going by the M-W definition of "zealot": "a person who has very strong feelings about something (such as religion or politics) and who wants other people to have those feelings ; a zealous person".

It's true of myself. I want to leave pieces of myself with everybody I meet, because I want to not only perfect the world, but more specifically the _individuals_ of the world. I'm not claiming perfection, but that I want to improve everyone who I meet. Most can teach me as well, but it's easier for me to give wisdom than extract it from others. Trying to squeeze a person for all the wisdom they're worth can be extremely frustrating.


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

Good fits:

7sp - Resourceful
5so - Mage/Alchemist
9sp - Immobility


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I think caution is a better theme for 6 sp. Presenting yourself as harmless is done as a cautionary measure. For some sp 6s (and I include myself, because my 6-fix is quite strong and it's possible it's my core type because of days like today when I feel it very strongly), it's not about finding someone to be teamed up with (I'm not a sidekick) or appearing harmless to gain support or protection (my pride woulnd't let me have that kind of dependency, even if I need support), it's more about keeping to myself and minding my own business, having a don't ask don't tell kind of policy, leaving everything at a very tacit level, increasing speculation that translates itself into more worse-case scenario thinking. The point here is to stop being so coward and getting involved, asking, telling, not being stuck in the limbo of the mind. This is my experience as a sp with strong 6 and 9 fixes. I avoid getting in trouble. This is caution. I am aware of consequences but I'm also aware of my superego: 'you should get involved'.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

> *So 4: "Outcast"*


There I am. That's me. 

If the enneagram could be reduced to one single word, I'd be a social 4.


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## Hespera (Jun 3, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I don't recall saying that (though I do think they're boring, along with Social 9, Self Preservation 4 and most 5s who are not Sx dom)
> 
> I like "Allegiance" better than "Duty" because "Duty" is more the 1-ish, Captain America Social 6. other 6s are more a bit more back-stab-y, political and bureaucratic (like Umbridge from Harry Potter)


Duty fits my experience of Social 1 better than 6. I always feel this overwhelming sense of responsibility for everyone's well being that is perfectly encompassed by the term Duty (feeling obliged to act on behalf of others), while when I'm in a 6ish mode it's more about this safe sense of belonging that doesn't necessary require action (Allegiance, as it were)


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Hespera said:


> Duty fits my experience of Social 1 better than 6. I always feel this overwhelming sense of responsibility for everyone's well being that is perfectly encompassed by the term Duty (feeling obliged to act on behalf of others), while when I'm in a 6ish mode it's more about this safe sense of belonging that doesn't necessary require action (Allegiance, as it were)


no, Social 1 is more concerned with _correctness_ (moral or otherwise). they generally want what is in everyone's best interest, but their main focus is on principles and doing things "the right way". they tend to be colder and more objective (moreso 1w9 than 1w2. 1w2 is a bit warmer and more charismatic).

also, Duty is not so much feeling obligated to act "on behalf of others". that's more Fe (and typically presumptuous, unless you are a specifically a representative of said group). duty is more of a sense of "knowing your place", feeling obliged to serve a person/position whom you consider your superior and/or feeling obliged to follow certain rules/protocol (think the military)


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