# Was this emotional abuse?



## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

I have severe anxiety problems. I never really understood why, as nothing terrible had ever really happened to me. But after the death of my grandparents, I might have an inkling as to why.

You see, my grandparents raised me. I was told that my mother didn't want to raise me and was too irresponsible to do so. They disowned my mother, and wanted me to be better than her. I never really did much to warrant severe punishment, but I recall a handful of times when I would be called by my mother's name whenever I was getting too out of line in their view. That’s how little they viewed my mother...she was an insult, a reprimand. And in turn, that shows how much I was contrasted with her: Calling me by her name was reserved for only the most severe of circumstances, when my identity shifted away from me, the good kid, to her, the bad kid.

So what did my mother do that was so heinous? I was told wild tales of how she slept with everybody under the sun, dabbled in devil worshipping, drank, did drugs, was ungrateful for the things that they bought her, lied about abuse so that she would be sent to a foster home, and swearing to her parents. Considering my grandparents were devout Christians, well, all of this was horrific to them.

I took what they told me at face value. After all, who wouldn’t believe the people who were taking care of you? But after both of them were gone, I talked to my mother and she admitted that she was, in fact, abused by my grandparents physically and emotionally. My uncle confirmed this. I was told all my life that my mother was never abused, but just an ungrateful bad seed. The reason she turned to devil worshipping? The abuse was so bad that she felt God had forsaken her.

And the reason she rebelled so strongly? My grandparents didn’t like her or her brother going anywhere. In fact, my uncle claims he had to teach himself how to drive. 

This...was more of less the same lifestyle I was forced to live. I didn’t suffer nearly the same level of abuse they did (for instance they always told everyone they would whip me if I got in trouble, but they never did), but I was never really allowed to go anywhere either. There was always the excuse that they didn’t know the parents, but they never really tried get to know _anyone_ outside their own circle of family and friends from their own cohort. Furthermore, they tried to persuade me that home was best, and they told me the story about how my mother wanted to go eat at a friend’s house for Thanksgiving, but didn’t have a good time out of it. I was told that I would be treated worse by people who weren’t family.

It was lucky for me that I didn’t really mind not going anywhere by myself most of the time, but I did butt heads over it with my grandparents a few times. When I told them that they never let me go anywhere, they denied it and tried to guilt me for even thinking of such a thing about them. But a particularly extreme example was when I was taking a freshman introductory course at my university’s local campus, and going on a tour of the main campus was mandatory. I thought that since I was 18, it would finally be okay for me to hitch a ride with a friend, since I didn’t have a license (and I still don’t). Well, they were angry at that they made me go with my grandmother and one of her relatives. Yes, they were that controlling. They were really overprotective. My grandfather even came up with some BS idea that my friend’s father wouldn’t want to help out unless he wanted sex with me. (I think there is a reason for him thinking like this, but I’d rather not explain it.)

And another revelation other than how controlling my grandparents both with my mother and myself, but also that my mother claimed that they took me away from her against her will, thinking her to be an unfit mother. 

After talking with some friends I made over Skype, I was told this was abuse. Is it? I’m not sure, but thinking of it in that way makes a lot of pieces fall into place regarding my anxiety. I’m heavily fixated on being perfect or nearly perfect in areas that I found that defined me, which happened to be my character and my intelligence. Those were the two things I was praised for the most. Perhaps, being expected to not become my mother and the implicit threat that I would be disowned too if I wasn’t good and didn’t try to make something of myself is the reason why I have this fixation with being perfect. I was unconsciously afraid of becoming like my mother and being a bad person. And well, I was never really all that popular in school. I never got to make any true friends, only a lot of acquaintances. There were many reasons for this, but my grandparents overprotectiveness didn’t help. I never really got to do normal kid and teen stuff like sleepovers, visiting other people’s houses, dates (well I was technically allowed to date at 16 but by that time I had no interest and I wanted to focus school anyway), etc. Therefore, the only sources of real validation I had were the adults in my life: my grandparents and teachers.

My grandparents never really understood why I got upset so often. They always said that they’d be fine even if I failed everything in school. But I believe I just wanted to secure any source of affirmation from them so I would not be disowned by them, at least on a subconscious level.

So is this really emotional abuse? What do you all think? How can I deal with this and move past my perfectionism?


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

Personally, I don't like that your grandparents scapegoat your mother. That bothers me. Also, that they used her name and person as an insult to you. Somehow, it's like they've made her out to be all bad and evil in too righteous of a way. I am wary of when I hear people do that about people or causes. I've fallen into the trap though myself and have went along...maybe I've even done that myself... It's mostly too black and white and divisive though. 

This is a tough situation because I get the feeling your grandparents wouldn't admit they've emotionally abused you. They've supported you financially and are raising you, so you coming back and approaching them on it may be difficult and impossible for them to listen to your feelings ("After all that we've done for you!"). But I think they have emotionally abused you with expectations and sheltering you too much. I think they may be taking too much authority, though I think it's important to yield to them to a degree if you live with them. It's important to realize that you have your own views and ideas too at the same time. 

Also, I suppose a psychotherapist would say all the emotional abuse and pain you've went through is relevant and real. So, it's good to admit it and process it somehow. It has a strong affect on a person. You've explained it all here quite well, and I wish you the best of luck in your next courses of action. 

I suppose a few things you can do or continue to do is: to find/maintain friendships with supportive people(mostly peers probably), take control of your life and also explore too for the sake of things and seeing different ways(perfectionism into innovation?), and also to realistically try to work with your grandparents but also doing what you'd like to do. It's hard to do things if you live with them and they will be breathing down your neck and may make you feel ashamed or guilty or anxious if you break their rules. Finally, maybe find a reason to leave and study elsewhere if you can or for a fresh opportunity....


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Slogo said:


> This is a tough situation because I get the feeling your grandparents wouldn't admit they've emotionally abused you. They've supported you financially and are raising you, so you coming back and approaching them on it may be difficult and impossible for them to listen to your feelings ("After all that we've done for you!"). But I think they have emotionally abused you with expectations and sheltering you too much. I think they may be taking too much authority, though I think it's important to yield to them to a degree if you live with them. It's important to realize that you have your own views and ideas too at the same time.


Um, they’re both dead now. I thought I made that clear in the OP, but just to clarify. But I’m still suffering from my perfectionism.


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## Pucca (Jun 13, 2012)

You were taught FEAR. Fear of other people, fear of the environment, fear of friends, fear of independence, fear of failure, fear of disappointment, fear of being disowned. Is there any wonder that you developed severe anxiety? You were not allowed healthful experiences to negate or even balance out that fear so that it did not become overwhelming and controlling just as your grandparents were. You could only depend on them because they were all you were allowed to have. 

It was certainly a toxic environment. 

You do not seem happy being bound up by all these fears. They bring you no comfort, though they are familiar. May you be able to learn to grow past it. Find the facts and statistics of the things they made you so fearful of. Slowly dip your toe into new experiences and see if they are as evil and fearful as you were forced to believe.


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## Hollow Man (Aug 12, 2011)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> Um, they’re both dead now. I thought I made that clear in the OP, but just to clarify. But I’m still suffering from my perfectionism.


Sorry about that, in a couple ways...condolences(1) and for my negligence(2). You said it in the first line. :blushed:

Do you think it'd be beneficial to write out how your grandparents made you feel or what/how you disagree with how they raised you? Maybe decide how you'd like to change your course and decide what's good for your life instead of perfection (or maybe trying to reach someone's expectations)? I am not sure what perfectionism is all the time myself. I worry a lot about making mistakes though...(even though I messed up above)


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

… *hugs*
Have you considered getting therapy? It seems like you have a lot of unwiring and puzzling out to do.


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## caramel_choctop (Sep 20, 2010)

@Angelic Gardevoir, Yes, I think that level of control over the actions of a person older than, say, 3 constitutes emotional abuse or something close to it. Certainly it's not a healthy way to be raised (or to raise children).

I grew up quite sheltered and shy, but my parents encouraged me (and do to this day) to go out, make friends, live my life, take risks etc. There is a difference between protecting your child and seeking to control them.


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## StElmosDream (May 26, 2012)

Sounds closer to What Is Authoritarian Parenting? , likely requiring therapeutic or informal discussion language (spoken, written or feelings named) to help overcome psychosomatic anxiety derived from strictness and cognitive dissonance as a result of new freedoms and feeling confused by standards imposed that may no longer make any sense (?).

*Just a lived perspective of someone that is still working on naming and unravelling unwanted anxiety-self esteem triggers and why I follow rules so easily.


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## Aya the Abysswalker (Mar 23, 2012)

This situation makes me greatly uncomfortable. You were emotionally abused and taught fear, not love and care.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Unless it is blatant, emotional abuse is hard to define in many instances. This is particularly true in the parent/child relationship. So whether or not it was actual abuse I can't say, but it certainly borders on emotional abuse.

What is obvious is that you have a lot of baggage handed down to you from your grandparents and parents. You've got a lot of unpacking to do, so I would recommend counseling/therapy to help you with the issues you've been given.


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## DAPHNE XO (Jan 16, 2012)

They say the easiest way to control a child is through: fear, obligation and guilt. (FOG for short.)

You grew up with all three; fear - what will happen to me if I'm not perfect enough?; obligation - they are my source of protection/shelter/etc better not disappoint or disobey them; and guilt - I don't want to wrongly accuse them of what is blatantly emotional abuse.

The good news? You've started unpacking all the drama they put you through unnecessarily.

The bad news? Yes, it was emotional abuse. Not severe, but the thing is, emotional abuse is severe in that it's psychologically toxic even if it the marks it leaves aren't physical.

How is your mother now? Are you interested in building a relationship with her, if you don't mind me asking?
She might help answer some of these questions you have because it's totally possible she's at a farther stage of healing than you.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

I will comment on all this later...but thanks for the responses, everyone.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Anything is emotional abuse if you want it to be.


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Emotional abuse is often a gray area but it sounds like you've had a lot of obligations and expectations to live up to and I can sympathize and empathize with that. Perhaps your grandparents only wanted the best for you, there's a strong chance they did, but you've built up a lot of anxiety and fear over the years and this cannot be healthy for your emotional well-being and it's definitely hurting your heart and holding you back in life. I agree with those who suggested therapy, it would be a good way to understand and release your fears while learning to define what happened and how to move on from there. I also like the idea of writing a (mental) letter to your grandparents, letting out all of the words you were never able to say when they were alive and finally letting them know, somehow, how you truly felt. It could be something extremely liberating and I know you're a writer. 

Of course these are just suggestions but I know how heavy on the heart perfectionism can be. Good luck! I hope you'll find the help and the peace of mind you're looking for <3


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## Serak (Jul 26, 2012)

Regardless of the label on the behavior it definitely wasn't good for you. I was going to suggest expressing yourself in some way, such as a recording or writing, but @Karma beat me to the punch. She has a keen insight if her other posts are any indication, so if it seems like something that might help I completely back up that suggestion.

Fear is a hard thing to get past, but it exists to be conquered.


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## Lyric (Jul 15, 2014)

emberfly said:


> Anything is emotional abuse if you want it to be.


Sorry, but wtf is that supposed to mean? And how on Earth is that supposed to help the OP? 

If the conclusion is that she was emotionally abused, she was because she WANTED to be?


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Pucca said:


> You were taught FEAR. Fear of other people, fear of the environment, fear of friends, fear of independence, fear of failure, fear of disappointment, fear of being disowned. Is there any wonder that you developed severe anxiety? You were not allowed healthful experiences to negate or even balance out that fear so that it did not become overwhelming and controlling just as your grandparents were. You could only depend on them because they were all you were allowed to have.
> 
> It was certainly a toxic environment.
> 
> You do not seem happy being bound up by all these fears. They bring you no comfort, though they are familiar. May you be able to learn to grow past it. Find the facts and statistics of the things they made you so fearful of. Slowly dip your toe into new experiences and see if they are as evil and fearful as you were forced to believe.


I’ve been trying new experiences and developing independence. For instance, I’ve started to walk to places by myself, and I’ve skyped with people. But it’s a bit surreal to think about. I’m sitting here in my apartment, but I could literally walk away at any time and no one can stop me. 



Slogo said:


> Sorry about that, in a couple ways...condolences(1) and for my negligence(2). You said it in the first line. :blushed:


It’s okay. 



> Do you think it'd be beneficial to write out how your grandparents made you feel or what/how you disagree with how they raised you? Maybe decide how you'd like to change your course and decide what's good for your life instead of perfection (or maybe trying to reach someone's expectations)? I am not sure what perfectionism is all the time myself. I worry a lot about making mistakes though...(even though I messed up above)


Perhaps sometime I could. I’ve blogged about it once, I think.



Morfinyon said:


> … *hugs*
> Have you considered getting therapy? It seems like you have a lot of unwiring and puzzling out to do.


I’ve been in and out of therapy all my life. I was even put on Prozac at 6 years old. Why? Because I cried a lot at school and would erase so often that holes were ripped in the paper. Granted, this was nearly leaf thin writing paper and the paper only ripped when the eraser was down to the metal part. But well, being a kid, I couldn’t communicate that. 

When I have brought it up in therapy recently though, no one seemed to label it as abuse. But maybe it was because I only described the overprotective part and not the part about my mother so much.



StElmosDream said:


> Sounds closer to What Is Authoritarian Parenting? , likely requiring therapeutic or informal discussion language (spoken, written or feelings named) to help overcome psychosomatic anxiety derived from strictness and cognitive dissonance as a result of new freedoms and feeling confused by standards imposed that may no longer make any sense (?).
> 
> *Just a lived perspective of someone that is still working on naming and unravelling unwanted anxiety-self esteem triggers and why I follow rules so easily.


The thing about my grandparents though was that they were a strange mix of authoritarian and permissive parenting with me? I was mostly a good kid who rarely caused much trouble other than my crying spells. They’d let me watch stuff like The Simpsons, I never had any real chores unless I wanted to help out (which I sometimes did), I ate a lot of junk food, they got me toys every week, and so on. It was just the thing with my mother, the controlling behavior about where I went, and encouragement on dependence on them that could be labeled as strict/authoritarian/borderline abusive. So...I just want to emphasize that it was by no means all bad with them. It might be possible that I avoided the brunt of the abuse by my people pleasing nature and I could deal with being at home all the time because I might be an introvert. 

And maybe, it was how good they were to me that makes me question whether or not this was emotional abuse or not. 




DaphneDelRey said:


> How is your mother now? Are you interested in building a relationship with her, if you don't mind me asking?
> She might help answer some of these questions you have because it's totally possible she's at a farther stage of healing than you.


We speak occasionally over the phone. If things don’t work out with me trying to be independent, I may end up living with her. However...I don’t think she is at a farther stage of healing than I am. She had it worse from what she told me, and she has struggled with alcoholism and psychological problems which may be worse than my own.



Karma said:


> Emotional abuse is often a gray area but it sounds like you've had a lot of obligations and expectations to live up to and I can sympathize and empathize with that. Perhaps your grandparents only wanted the best for you, there's a strong chance they did, but you've built up a lot of anxiety and fear over the years and this cannot be healthy for your emotional well-being and it's definitely hurting your heart and holding you back in life. I agree with those who suggested therapy, it would be a good way to understand and release your fears while learning to define what happened and how to move on from there. I also like the idea of writing a (mental) letter to your grandparents, letting out all of the words you were never able to say when they were alive and finally letting them know, somehow, how you truly felt. It could be something extremely liberating and I know you're a writer.
> 
> Of course these are just suggestions but I know how heavy on the heart perfectionism can be. Good luck! I hope you'll find the help and the peace of mind you're looking for <3


I definitely think they wanted the best for me and had good intentions, but family baggage was definitely passed down onto me.


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## caramel_choctop (Sep 20, 2010)

emberfly said:


> Anything is emotional abuse if you want it to be.


From the evidence we're given in this post, it seems the OP was raised in a way that was more controlling than the average child experiences. They were prevented from doing certain things at all (e.g. using Skype, going outside alone, making friends) on the grounds that it was dangerous. 

These activities aren't inherently dangerous or high-risk, provided that proper parameters are in place. In fact, the ability to make friends is integral to one's childhood development and well-being in adulthood. 

Don't split hairs. Don't victim-blame. It doesn't matter if this was technically emotional abuse or not. What matters is that the level of control by the OP's grandparents is outside the range of normal parenting mistakes and has caused OP significant issues.

This is not some teenager whinging about how they're only allowed to play Skyrim four evenings a week. You're implying that the OP is simply making a big deal over nothing, without providing a shred of evidence from the original post.
@Angelic Gardevoir, I don't mean to speak on your behalf, by the way.


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Probably one of the most prominent features of "traditional" abusive relationships is the need to control, yet it's the one which gets quite often overlooked.

I honestly don't know what your grandparents deal is, but to be honest, that's no way to really raise a child. I can understand any parent or guardian not wanting their child to go to some weird concert alone or meet with a complete stranger, however, restricting every day social activities isn't normal. Yes, I would say that trying to instil a fear or reluctance of the 'outside world' is abusive, in that it restricts your development and growth as a person - it robs you of the chance to experience things which the vast majority of people take completely for granted. 

It's really sad that some parents fail in their duty by setting no boundaries whatsoever, however, it's also equally sad that some fail by needing to manage every single aspect of the child's life. Like, they are so terrified that their child will not follow exactly in their footsteps they won't even give them the chance to fail - to grow as their own person - instead _only_ giving the option of going to church, _only_ giving the option of spending thanksgiving at home, _only_ giving them the choice of a limited social life, etc. 

Your grandparents method of parenting was exactly that: Removing as many options as possible to try and force their childrendown one path. It shows a lack of respect, a lack of trust, and a lack of concern for well-being. It shows an entirely selfish outlook that 'what I think is best', to the point where they are entirely myopic to what they are doing. 

For example, they view your mothers actions as entirely her fault, however, more often than not, I'd say that's a perfectly normal reaction to being controlled by your parents like that - to break out and become uber rebellious. You said it yourself, your mother only turned to devil-worshipping because _they_ put her in a position where she felt God was failing her, yet I have no doubt in their mind that they've probably warped it around that _she's_ the evil and unfit one, not them.

I suppose what really puts this beyond the pail is how it's gone beyond needing to control their children and into needing to control their grandchildren - they couldn't stand the thought of _you_ deviating from their grand delusions of "what's best", so they stepped in and actually took over, actively telling lies about your mother as a means of seperating you. Actively conditioning you to view your mothers name as an insult, negative. 

I have to go to work now, but I hope I've put across why exactly what they did was so abusive - it's not the beatings, it's not the restricting social activities, and it's not the deliberate deceit. These are just symptoms of the larger problem: The extreme need to have control over you, your mother, and your uncle's life. *That's* what makes them abusive. 

(oh yeah, and really sorry you had to put up with that shit)


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## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

How come nobody is asking the obvious question?

If your grandparents were so awful to your mom, then why did she allow them to take you away and raise you against her will? You can't just take someone's child whenever you feel like it. Did she even try to get you back through legal means, etc.? And if she did, and those failed, why did that happen?

Even if she was unable to raise you for whatever reason, if they were such horrible parents, why didn't she put you up for adoption or have you raised by another relative?

I think there's more to the story than meets the eye. There's three sides to every story: his side, her side, and the truth.

And yeah, your grandparents definitely weren't the best. I hope that when they compared you to your mom, you said "Well, you raised her, and now apparently I'm turning out just like her. What does that say about your parenting skills?"


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

thismustbetheplace said:


> How come nobody is asking the obvious question?
> 
> If your grandparents were so awful to your mom, then why did she allow them to take you away and raise you against her will? You can't just take someone's child whenever you feel like it. Did she even try to get you back through legal means, etc.? And if she did, and those failed, why did that happen?
> 
> ...


That's why I included the parents in my baggage statement.


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## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

In response to your original question, my mom was actually pretty similar. The whole authoritarian, overprotective, not allowed to go out of the house alone, comparing me to my dad/brother when I did something she didn't like, focusing on school performance and respect of elders and completely neglecting all other traits. She hit us also, including with a belt. But then the permissive, having lots of toys, not having chores, being taken to parks/zoos/museums/etc. every week. I even got to watch the Simpsons as a kid, too!

As a general rule I think emotional abuse is a bit of an overused term, and it's really hard to determine what the dividing line is between imperfect parenting and abuse. I really hate the term "abuser" because it's such a final word, it just shuts down all conversation, like "you're an abuser, that's all you are and ever will be, and there's nothing you can do to change it." Real life is way more complicated than that.

My mom may have done some stuff that was less than ideal as a parent but I know she was trying her best. My dad was a shitty parent when I was a teenager because he wasn't even involved in my life, he neglected my brother who lived with him, and the courts had to garnish his wages to get him to pay child support. But even then, he wasn't a bad parent when we were kids.

I find it very difficult to make the final determination when it comes to my parents, and at this point, when I'm 23, engaged, with a full-time job, only see my mom and brother every couple of months and don't talk to my dad anymore, it's really not productive to stay obsessed with the past (well, except for the parts of my past that I data-mine for the TV series I'm writing, LOL.)

I'd say that goes for you too. The past already happened, and nobody can say for sure if you turned out to be anxious and a perfectionist because of it. You should focus on the future and how you can move on today, and not focus on things you can't change.


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

caramel_choctop said:


> From the evidence we're given in this post, it seems the OP was raised in a way that was more controlling than the average child experiences. They were prevented from doing certain things at all (e.g. using Skype, going outside alone, making friends) on the grounds that it was dangerous.


I need to clarify...I could go outside to the yard. I just could not go stay at other people’s houses or go to places without them. (Although I could go to things like prom, but well, teacher supervision was acceptable. And they picked me up around 11 pm or midnight, lol.) There was a time when I was old enough, they didn’t mind me walking in the junkyard (surrounded by woodland) near my home. I did that for several years, but eventually that was taken away from me since my grandmother was afraid of murderers or predators finding me. (Never mind that I rarely went that far. O_O) Also, I did use online forums (after all I joined PerC while they were alive), but I was afraid to get close or share details about my life with anyone out of fear of what my grandparents would think about it. Even if by no means I would get caught, I still had the guilt. I told them that no one knew who I really was or where I lived, and I was just talking about TV shows, etc. They were okay with that. But despite what they thought, they hadn’t the faintest idea what I was really doing (although by my standards it was definitely nothing heinous) because they knew nothing about computers...even less than usual for people their age. And they never really knew what Skype was, but I was uneasy about even talking about with them, considering the distance I had to keep from people online anyway.



> @_Angelic Gardevoir_, I don't mean to speak on your behalf, by the way.


No problem. 



thismustbetheplace said:


> If your grandparents were so awful to your mom, then why did she allow them to take you away and raise you against her will? You can't just take someone's child whenever you feel like it. Did she even try to get you back through legal means, etc.? And if she did, and those failed, why did that happen?
> 
> Even if she was unable to raise you for whatever reason, if they were such horrible parents, why didn't she put you up for adoption or have you raised by another relative?
> 
> I think there's more to the story than meets the eye. There's three sides to every story: his side, her side, and the truth.


I really don’t know _what_ the truth is, but there seems to have been some sort of struggle, since my mother seems to be very damaged by it and wishes she could have raised me. (However, I will say that my grandparents might have saved me from some other stuff that her other three kids went through. She was far from the perfect mother and perhaps she didn’t have the best judge of character...) And I don’t think they had custody of me per se, just something approaching legal guardianship to the degree that they could take me to the doctor. I’m not sure what the specifics are really. 

My guess, though, is that she was simply submissive to their wishes, or that because my grandfather knew the county attorney, he had more clout with them. But this is taking the view that my mother was telling the entire truth.



> And yeah, your grandparents definitely weren't the best. I hope that when they compared you to your mom, you said "Well, you raised her, and now apparently I'm turning out just like her. What does that say about your parenting skills?"


LOL. I didn’t do that, but that would have been good to say in retrospect. Though I will say that I didn’t argue with my grandparents that often, but when I did, they could get nasty. My grandfather was the worse of the two I think, because he had said some very hurtful things to me. For example, after an argument, I was eating supper and he scolded me for eating when he wasn’t eating, acting as if I didn’t deserve to eat. And once when I was crying, I was ripping a small piece of paper lying around to relieve stress and I was told that his parents would have beaten me for that. 

And as a segue here, my crying wasn’t really treated that well in general. The older I got, the more I was told just to quit crying. And once I got upset over something that happened on PerC and my grandmother threatened to take away the computer. You know, _for crying and being upset_. As if that would help. When I confronted her about it, she told me she was just saying that to get me to stop, but I have to wonder how that would make a person stop being upset? Didn’t it occur to her that it would make me more upset?

Er...sorry for going on a tangent there. I just wanted to reinforce the point that while they treated me better that what you would think of abusive parents, they had...weird moments. They probably didn’t know better, but at the same time, I imagine it would be common sense not to guilt someone just for crying?

But again, it’s not black and white here. That’s why I made this thread in the first place, to share my experience and see how other people would label it.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

thismustbetheplace said:


> I'd say that goes for you too. The past already happened, and nobody can say for sure if you turned out to be anxious and a perfectionist because of it. You should focus on the future and how you can move on today, and not focus on things you can't change.


I agree with your post - actually all of it is good advice. However, I would encourage the OP to get counseling to help process the emotional baggage left over from all that has occurred. Not to dwell on and live in the past, as that would sacrifice the present and the future, but to allow the present and the future to reach their full potential by coming to grips with what emotional trauma has been inflicted by her family of origin through all of these experiences.

Life is about developing relationships and relationships are about trusting each other. Anything in our past that inhibits our ability to trust wisely and be fully transparent in a relationship will negatively impact our present and our future.


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## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> I really don’t know _what_ the truth is, but there seems to have been some sort of struggle, since my mother seems to be very damaged by it and wishes she could have raised me. (However, I will say that my grandparents might have saved me from some other stuff that her other three kids went through. She was far from the perfect mother and perhaps she didn’t have the best judge of character...) And I don’t think they had custody of me per se, just something approaching legal guardianship to the degree that they could take me to the doctor. I’m not sure what the specifics are really.


Still seems strange to me that she wouldn't even try to have any kind of custody battle, or find alternate arrangements for your care. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if she was twisting the truth because she feels guilty about not being there for you when you were growing up, and your uncle is going along with it because of his own personal issues with your grandparents. When you made your original post I thought it implied that your grandparents were lying about your mom, but maybe their assessment of her (the factual part, not their own moralizing spin of "she is the worst person ever") actually wasn't too far off.

I will say that in most cases judges try to keep families together, and the law is usually on the mom's side. There had to be some reason for you to be under your grandparents' care against your mom's will. There's definitely more she isn't talking about.

On a related note, do you think they resented having to care for another child in their old age, and that's why they always talked trash about the person who caused them to have to raise you in the first place?



> My grandfather was the worse of the two I think, because he had said some very hurtful things to me. For example, after an argument, I was eating supper and he scolded me for eating when he wasn’t eating, acting as if I didn’t deserve to eat. And once when I was crying, I was ripping a small piece of paper lying around to relieve stress and I was told that his parents would have beaten me for that.
> 
> And as a segue here, my crying wasn’t really treated that well in general. The older I got, the more I was told just to quit crying. And once I got upset over something that happened on PerC and my grandmother threatened to take away the computer. You know, _for crying and being upset_. As if that would help. When I confronted her about it, she told me she was just saying that to get me to stop, but I have to wonder how that would make a person stop being upset? Didn’t it occur to her that it would make me more upset?


This is so much like my mom it's almost ridiculous! When I was hospitalized for wanting to kill myself she referred to it as "the stunt you pulled for attention" and called me a "drama queen." I got the "my parents would have beaten me for that" ALL THE TIME too. The best was when I was a kid, she would hit me and I would start crying and then she would hit me more for "being hysterical." Also if I would start eating after an argument, she would tell me I had no right to eat after disrespecting her because she paid for and cooked the food I was eating (I mean, I guess she kind of had a point there, but still). I think she was trying to raise me to be tough or something, but it had the opposite effect because now I am afraid to assert myself, which is probably why I have an Ivy League degree and make $13 an hour.

I get what you're saying about the abuse thing because that's the same position I'm in. Most media depictions of abuse are cartoonishly evil, like _A Child Called It_, or Isaac on _Teen Wolf, _whose dad locked him in an ice chest for hours to punish him. In the end though, "emotional abuse" is just a buzzword, and it's kind of irrelevant whether that buzzword applies to your situation or not, especially years after the fact. What matters is how you felt about it and how it affected you. Or maybe that's just my Extroverted Thinking talking.

I'm hesitant to apply the term "abuse" to situations like this, because I have experienced firsthand what happens when that word is overused (child protective services destroying families for no reason, moms tearing each other apart over differences in parenting styles, etc.) My guess is that your grandparents loved you and did their best but maybe weren't the best at parenting or dealing with situations tactfully. You can define that however you want.


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## lightwing (Feb 17, 2013)

My parents were pretty protective.

I always wanted a skateboard when I was young. My dad wouldn't let me and the reasoning was that they were dangerous and I might break a bone.

While not hating my dad for this, I did harbor animosity toward him on a minor level. I used to "joke" that I could have been the next Tony Hawk had he let me get one when I was young. Truth is, what might have been is irrelevant. We never lived closed enough to any place that I could have developed any skills, and I'm a bit like a bee in my interests, buzzing from one flower to the next. Once I was old enough to be on my own, going to buy a skateboard was the last thing on my mind. Here I am now 36 and I still have never owned a skateboard and now I don't necessarily want one (sometimes I entertain the idea), nor have the desire to get good on one even if I did.

My point in saying all of this is that sometimes we carry a lot of negative feelings based on self constructed "evils" perpetrated against us. All that's needed to deal with them is to be honest with ourselves and forgive the ones they're directed toward.

I'm not saying this is always the case, and may not even fit in the context of this thread, but I thought I'd share none the less.

@Angelic Gardevoir thanks for this thread. I think I suffer from similar problems with anxiety and perfectionism myself so it's nice to read what people have to say about it as well as knowing it's not just me that has these problems.


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## caramel_choctop (Sep 20, 2010)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> I need to clarify...I could go outside to the yard. I just could not go stay at other people’s houses or go to places without them. (Although I could go to things like prom, but well, teacher supervision was acceptable. And they picked me up around 11 pm or midnight, lol.) There was a time when I was old enough, they didn’t mind me walking in the junkyard (surrounded by woodland) near my home. I did that for several years, but eventually that was taken away from me since my grandmother was afraid of murderers or predators finding me. (Never mind that I rarely went that far. O_O) Also, I did use online forums (after all I joined PerC while they were alive), but I was afraid to get close or share details about my life with anyone out of fear of what my grandparents would think about it. Even if by no means I would get caught, I still had the guilt. I told them that no one knew who I really was or where I lived, and I was just talking about TV shows, etc. They were okay with that. But despite what they thought, they hadn’t the faintest idea what I was really doing (although by my standards it was definitely nothing heinous) because they knew nothing about computers...even less than usual for people their age. And they never really knew what Skype was, but I was uneasy about even talking about with them, considering the distance I had to keep from people online anyway.
> 
> 
> No problem.
> ...


No, sorry, I meant going outside in the sense of going to people's houses or out with friends or whatever. My mother also did the "Why are you in my house if you don't want to pull your weight?" thing, as someone said above, but only after a huge argument, and often when I was honestly being a lazy little brat. She always apologised to me afterwards. And maybe this is because I'm Indian, but to this day, my parents won't help themselves to food until we've taken our share, and they'll always give us the leftovers. So the "Don't eat when I'm not eating," thing along with the rest rings alarm bells for me. What did he say, exactly, if you don't mind going into it?


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

caramel_choctop said:


> So the "Don't eat when I'm not eating," thing along with the rest rings alarm bells for me. What did he say, exactly, if you don't mind going into it?


I can't remember exactly. It might have been something like “Look at you...eating.” And well, we didn't actually have a dinner table. I was eating in my room. He was just refusing to eat because he was upset and acting like a baby, and then shaming me for eating because he wasn't and was implying I didn't deserve it or something. 

Oh, and I don't know if this is how families in America are in general as mine was atypical in a lot of ways, but there was really no rule about who should eat first or anything. This was just a strange incident. And he only said something like this to me once or twice after we had an argument, but it still sticks out to me in memory.


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## Leaf on the Wind (Dec 26, 2013)

First, I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Second, I can't speculate on your grandparents motives. But I can say that their behavior is consistent with abuse. Almost every case of abuse I've seen, one of the first things that an abusive caretaker does is try to control every move of the person they're taking control of. Even the "controlling of where you went, but permissive of other things" is consistent with abuse. Even though there was never any physical abuse, I can't help but note the nearly-identical behavior. Based on what you've said, this wasn't being protective: this was being controlling. So to answer your question on if this was emotional abuse, then yes it was.

But I agree with what most of the respondents say when the real issue is how to move on. I think you're taking some of the right steps toward moving on. I wish I could say something to help more with that, but most of what I'd say has already been said (and I'm kinda bad at advice for that, anyway).

I hope this was helpful (in even the smallest way) and I hope you're able to heal and move on.


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## .17485 (Jan 12, 2011)

Is this emotional abuse when one monitors a individual when they out? For example constantly phoning, texting to ask when they will come back like if this individual is a five year old child? But this individual is enjoying the environment they are in and doesn't feel that they are in any danger whatsoever. Controlling how this person can go out and the people they can and cannot invite to the house? Is anxiety and fear a symptom of it? A fear of whether you get taken advantage, trusting people and knowing who you can open up to.


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