# Healthy Weight to be Lifting



## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Souled In said:


> Most possible muscles at the same instant, as opposed to total throughout the movement. I see how what I said was misleading now.
> 
> Box jumps for the plyometric part is important because it loosens up that golgi reflect or whatever that activates the antagonist muscle or whatever to inhibit and prevent muscle tearing, but I know to dunk, I need about a 350-400 pound squat while lifting explosively. With a lot of plyometric work, maybe that could be a little lower, but you need muscle to produce force, and the muscle building range is 8-15 reps around 80-90% 1RM capability. 50% speed reps are great too to train power. The Vertical Jump Bible is a pretty cool resource by uh Kelly Bagget I think.


Still, a snatch uses more muscle groups than a deadlift I think.






Ok, now that makes more sense since you elucidated you point. Still, op is working on building strength, so I doubt she could lift 2x or 2.5x bw right now. Also if you are working on a particular movement, like jumping its always best to train in that movement. No matter how much you can lift, if you've never done a 30" jump, you'll stumble the first time you attempt it.


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## Up and Away (Mar 5, 2011)

android654 said:


> Still, a snatch uses more muscle groups than a deadlift I think.
> 
> 
> Ok, now that makes more sense since you elucidated you point. Still, op is working on building strength, so I doubt she could lift 2x or 2.5x bw right now. Also if you are working on a particular movement, like jumping its always best to train in that movement. No matter how much you can lift, if you've never done a 30" jump, you'll stumble the first time you attempt it.


Yeah it's probably reckless to attempt a vertical jump without knowing much haha.. now that I think of it, very jump is probably not a very safe "universal standard of fitness" as it has said to be. I'd certainly add in the deadlift though, or at least romanian deadlift for people that can't do 135 pounds from the ground, just to get the posterior chain hamstrings etc...


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## Katriona1992 (Jun 25, 2012)

android654 said:


> I'll be finally starting it in about 4 weeks once the cycle I'm currently on is over. The beauty of Crossfit is that their workouts are posted online, so you can check them out there for free and do them at your convenience.
> 
> Welcome to CrossFit: Forging Elite Fitness
> 
> ...


I respectfully disagree. 

Speaking from personal experience, Crossfit is not only expensive ($150< per month where I live) but there is also a large chance you will injure yourself during training. What I mean is...

(a) bad technique: Several of my mates, my weightlifting coach and myself have been to different Crossfit classes and yet all of them have the same thing in common- terrible instruction when it comes to teaching olympic lifts.

(b) time restraints: I enjoy circuit training but not when I am trying to lift weights. You have to be mentally prepared for it as well as physically ready (good posture etc). Having to look at the clock while having to squat over your own bodyweight is not my image of fun or safe. 

(c) number of repetitions (extremely high with no rest period in between): 30 snatches in a row. All I've got to say is...you kidding me, bro? 

(a) + (b) + (c) = danger imo

This does not include the fact that the CrossFit people I have met seem to have the "we're the best" attitude and they have stupid merchandise like "your max is my warmup" kinda shirts. 

P.S. I have nothing against you andriod654 and I hope you don't take this the wrong way. However, as a gym nut, I just get SO pissed when CF comes up.


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## Katriona1992 (Jun 25, 2012)

LykosGaiscioch said:


> I've been working out hard-core in and out of the gym for close to a year now, and part of my focus has been on building strength and endurance by lifting weights. Besides a variety of free weights and exercises, I've slowly progessed to 40lbs, plus whatever the bar weighs, for bench press and squats. I weigh 110, so I'm wondering what a solid, sound target lifting weight would be for me. I know that I want to build up to lifting and squatting at least as much as I weigh, and I've been doing fine until this past week when I had to ask one of the other people in the general vicinity to help me lift the bar off myself when I tried to go for one too-many reps and experienced muscle failure. After I got over how embarassing it was to not be able to lift the weight off myself, I came to the conclusion that 1) i may be trying to do too much too close together in time, so my muscles aren't able to keep up and 2) i may need to start working with a spotter as i increase how much i lift.
> 
> Thoughts on both target weight, as well as 1 and 2?
> 
> I was focusing on weightlifting at a maximum of every other day 2-4 times a week, and often skipped a few days in between and switch my focus to improving my running and/or biking time and distance. I've been loath to work with a personal trainer because they charge what is for me an unfeasible fee per hour.


Yeah, skip the PT. Instead, see if your local community center (e.g. YMCA that type of thing) have some kind of weightlifting program and work from there. Also, buy yourself a notebook and note down the amount and reps/sets you are able to do every session (if you're anything like me, seeing your numbers go up not only serves as further motivation but makes you feel all happy inside too!). 

I recommend StrongLifts 5 x 5 as a good starting point. I box and this was the program my coach puts anyone semi-serious on. This program has worked wonders for me. StrongLifts 5x5: Ultimate Strength & Muscle Building Program | StrongLifts.com The plan itself is at the middle of the page and there are videos of how to do the low bar squat, deadlift, barbell rows in correct form (very important). It is very simple- only 2-3 workouts per week which take no more than an hour each and well..here is the an example of the progress I was able to make in half a year (not trying to brag, especially since the numbers are not even that high compared to other lifters): 

- Squats: From having trouble squatting 30.5kg/67 pounds (the bar itself being 20.5kg/45 pounds) to squatting 5 reps of 102.5kg/226 pounds. 

- Deadlift: From barely being able to do 35.5kg/78 pounds to lifting 127kg/280 pounds 1RPM. 

and so on.

I'm transitioning to Mark Rippletoe's 5/3/1 soon (progress has slowed down), but yeah...try SS! Highly recommended!

P.S.I am around 135 pounds. 

P.P.S. Not endorsed by SS lolz (though I wish I was).


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Katriona1992 said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> Speaking from personal experience, Crossfit is not only expensive ($150< per month where I live) but there is also a large chance you will injure yourself during training. What I mean is...


WODs are posted online daily, so you can quite literally do it for free.



> (a) bad technique: Several of my mates, my weightlifting coach and myself have been to different Crossfit classes and yet all of them have the same thing in common- terrible instruction when it comes to teaching olympic lifts.


I've got close to a decade in weight training, so bad form can come into anything. If you're benching wrong you can hurt yourself, if you're curling wrong you can hurt yourself, if you're squatting wrong...

Bad form isn't exclusive to crossfit, anyone can try something without knowing what they're doing.



> (b) time restraints: I enjoy circuit training but not when I am trying to lift weights. You have to be mentally prepared for it as well as physically ready (good posture etc). Having to look at the clock while having to squat over your own bodyweight is not my image of fun or safe.


It's entirely about form and proper weight. If you know how to gauge those two things then I have no idea how this is an issue.



> (c) number of repetitions (extremely high with no rest period in between): 30 snatches in a row. All I've got to say is...you kidding me, bro?


Ever trained for an endurance competition? That's how they do it. I know someone who's currently preparing for "The Spartan" and he's swimming an excessive amount of miles, because it's part of the training for an endurance competition. This is by no means new.



> (a) + (b) + (c) = danger imo
> 
> This does not include the fact that the CrossFit people I have met seem to have the "we're the best" attitude and they have stupid merchandise like "your max is my warmup" kinda shirts.


I don't know anything about the actual community, but I will say this. I've studied and been involved in Muay Thai for 6+ years now and I can tell you that being obnoxious about your sport or workout is not found in one place. There are boxers who all think they amazing, bodybuilders, runners, cyclists, etc. Every sport has that group of people, and gyms are littered with weekenders who think they're bad ass and won't shut up about it.

I'm still not seeing what the problem with CF is.


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## Katriona1992 (Jun 25, 2012)

android654 said:


> WODs are posted online daily, so you can quite literally do it for free.


Yes, but if you join an actual program at an affiliated gym then it will cost you. 




android654 said:


> I've got close to a decade in weight training, so bad form can come into anything. If you're benching wrong you can hurt yourself, if you're curling wrong you can hurt yourself, if you're squatting wrong...
> 
> Bad form isn't exclusive to crossfit, anyone can try something without knowing what they're doing.


Again, I agree that people can hurt themselves doing any exercise with bad form...and that is why you would want the instructor to actually know their stuff. A skilled instructor won't/can't always watch over the OP 100% of the time, but someone who teaches the lifts wrong is not helping the OP to get stronger either. 




android654 said:


> It's entirely about form and proper weight. If you know how to gauge those two things then I have no idea how this is an issue.


I do and you do too (you more so cos you have more experience)...but I don't think OP does (no offence to her). 




android654 said:


> Ever trained for an endurance competition? That's how they do it. I know someone who's currently preparing for "The Spartan" and he's swimming an excessive amount of miles, because it's part of the training for an endurance competition. This is by no means new.


Different exercises require different training regimes. Yes, I have seen people who prepare for half marathons nearly run a full one in practice but there are some activities where you simply can't overload yourself like this. If you're training for endurance when it comes to weightlifting, then I suppose much smaller weights and higher reps could work (kinda like Bodypump I guess?). However, lifting 30 reps near the max of what someone is capable of is just risky and will likely compromise form near the end increasing the chance of injury. 




android654 said:


> I don't know anything about the actual community, but I will say this. I've studied and been involved in Muay Thai for 6+ years now and I can tell you that being obnoxious about your sport or workout is not found in one place. There are boxers who all think they amazing, bodybuilders, runners, cyclists, etc. Every sport has that group of people, and gyms are littered with weekenders who think they're bad ass and won't shut up about it.
> 
> I'm still not seeing what the problem with CF is.


 There are arrogant people everywhere but I feel like the instructors themselves are particularly bad and thats not something which they should be proud of. Like one of my friends hit them up cos she wanted to "tone" her body. She, having never exercised since primary school, was worried and asked about what and how risky the activities done in the class were. 

Her reply? "Well, to be very honest with you * patronizing smile*, if you are the kind that get all worried you will stub your toe on the pavement or something then CrossFit or exercise simply isn't for you HUN. If you don't believe in us, why did you file an inquiry?". On a scale of 1 to 10, how much more condescending can you possible sound to a potential PAYING client?

P.S. Wow6 years. You ever competed? Haha I wish I could do muay thai on a regular basis! I tried out a few classes with a friend and I loved it! However, the travelling time is just unreasonable


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

Katriona1992 said:


> Again, I agree that people can hurt themselves doing any exercise with bad form...and that is why you would want the instructor to actually know their stuff. A skilled instructor won't/can't always watch over the OP 100% of the time, but someone who teaches the lifts wrong is not helping the OP to get stronger either.


Fair enough, if you're new to weight training and try too much too quickly it'll be easy to get injured. Even experienced people get injured from time to time. If you expect to take on any sport seriously, then you should expect to have to deal with some kind of injury at some point.





> Different exercises require different training regimes. Yes, I have seen people who prepare for half marathons nearly run a full one in practice but there are some activities where you simply can't overload yourself like this. If you're training for endurance when it comes to weightlifting, then I suppose much smaller weights and higher reps could work (kinda like Bodypump I guess?). However, lifting 30 reps near the max of what someone is capable of is just risky and will likely compromise form near the end increasing the chance of injury.


This is where experience comes into play. If you know your one rep max for a snatch is Xlbs, then there's no rational way to think you can do 30 unbroken with anything near that much. You have to exercise your own judgement when deciding what is or too much weight to lift.






> There are arrogant people everywhere but I feel like the instructors themselves are particularly bad and thats not something which they should be proud of. Like one of my friends hit them up cos she wanted to "tone" her body. She, having never exercised since primary school, was worried and asked about what and how risky the activities done in the class were.
> 
> Her reply? "Well, to be very honest with you * patronizing smile*, if you are the kind that get all worried you will stub your toe on the pavement or something then CrossFit or exercise simply isn't for you HUN. If you don't believe in us, why did you file an inquiry?". On a scale of 1 to 10, how much more condescending can you possible sound to a potential PAYING client?


Yeah, that's pretty obnoxious. I'd hate to think that paints a picture of the majority of people who do CF though.



> P.S. Wow6 years. You ever competed? Haha I wish I could do muay thai on a regular basis! I tried out a few classes with a friend and I loved it! However, the travelling time is just unreasonable


I've never competed in an official capacity. However, I have been kicking around the idea of entering the amateur circuit in about a years time. My only issue is that so many instructors/trainers are too focused on doing things the way they do in Thailand, so I know whomever I train under is going to want to get me to 130 or lower. I have no intentions of getting that skinny.


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## Jwing24 (Aug 2, 2010)

I am no gym rat and haven't accomplished that much. That being said, I can give a positive word to my CF experience. I did it for 3 months, did their training program and then 2 months of it and my trainers were good. I never felt pressured to do what I could not, nor give what I didn't have. 

I also received no condescending comments from trainers. They were all very positive and helpful for me. I think this shows that as most things in life go, there are good and bad apples wherever you are.

If you are interested in that stuff, read up on it and check out it. If you aren't then don't. If you try any sort of training from anyone, don't be afraid to say you can't do something or you aren't willing. Only you know yourself.


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## LykosGaiscioch (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks for the additional replies. I'm actually at a stand still right now while I work on strengthening my wrists and other joints that I don't think are as strong as I need them to be, so I haven't been doing any heavy weightlifting recently. Also having trouble with one of my rotator cuffs and I'm hesitant to do much with it until I figure out and fix whatever the issue is. Sucks for me :/


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

The Starting Strength Novice/Beginner Programs - Starting Strength Wiki


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## Just_Some_Guy (Oct 8, 2009)

Lots of good advice so far, but I'll throw in my $.02 anyway.

I'm sold on 5x5s too. They push wattage without pushing the weight too high. 

1.) shoot for whatever goal your body will allow. The goal should be the life-style of lifting. The maximums you put up are incidental.
2.) lifting with a spotter is an entirely different lift because you don't need to worry about getting pinned. I never lift without one. 

I would get some pointers with squatting as it is very easy to squat using only your thighs. This is the best advice I've found so far. Learning to engage that posterior chain of muscles brings your squat to a whole new level. 






I went for a 150 bench last week and just barely failed it. I'll get it by December! 

Oh, that's kilograms. roud:


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