# Sex with Neanderthals Made Us Stronger



## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

*Sex with Neanderthals Made Us Stronger *
By Jennifer Viegas
Thu Aug 25, 2011 02:00 PM ET 



> *THE GIST*
> 
> 
> The immune systems of modern humans got a boost when our early ancestors interbred with archaic species.
> ...



Sex with Neanderthals Made Us Stronger : Discovery News


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## Mumintroll (Aug 27, 2011)

Thanks for posting this. Very intriguing.


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## MiriMiriAru (May 1, 2011)

This is very interesting. Of course though, it makes quite a bit of sense. At some point there must have been a sort of equilibrium between the Sapiens and Neanderthal populations, and I doubt that they would have seen each other as all that different. A substantial amount of interbreeding should have been expected.

But come on, we all know what the real issue here is, _would you have sex with a Neandethal if they were still around today_?


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## Fizz (Nov 13, 2010)

Zombie Jesus said:


> This is very interesting. Of course though, it makes quite a bit of sense. At some point there must have been a sort of equilibrium between the Sapiens and Neanderthal populations, and I doubt that they would have seen each other as all that different. A substantial amount of interbreeding should have been expected.
> 
> But come on, we all know what the real issue here is, _would you have sex with a Neandethal if they were still around today_?


I already knew that humans and neanderthals bred. The part I found interesting was the new found extinct species, Denisovans. I never heard of them and I took a class on the subject recently. And I definitely feel like you just came up with a new thread idea. Of course if it were to work, share pictures of what we believe neanderthals to look like. That will get the juices flowing!


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## Legba (Aug 22, 2011)

That's cause they were so darn hard to tackle and hold down.
Actualy, I find this subject facinating!


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## MiriMiriAru (May 1, 2011)

Fizz said:


> I already knew that humans and neanderthals bred. The part I found interesting was the new found extinct species, Denisovans. I never heard of them and I took a class on the subject recently. And I definitely feel like you just came up with a new thread idea. Of course if it were to work, share pictures of what we believe neanderthals to look like. That will get the juices flowing!


The Denisovans are quite interesting, although there is very little information available (there being only a finger bone and a tooth remaining). What's really interesting are the differences in genome percentages, as in how 4% and 6% of the genome of Melanesians is Denisovan. I love when science shows that the world is not simple and orderly, but incredibly complex. Humanities ancestry is vastly complicated and tangled, not a straightforward development as the popular view would have it.


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## Bote (Jun 16, 2010)

'The quest for Fire' comes to mind.


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## MXZCCT (May 29, 2011)

Here's a thought.

I wonder if interbreeding gave modern humans more of a variety for various types of personalities?


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

I also find it curious that the offspring must have been raised and cared for, rather than just being discarded. So perhaps there was a time when half neanderthal/half human babies were being raised in human tribes? That would be an interesting thing to witness.


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## MiriMiriAru (May 1, 2011)

Luke said:


> I also find it curious that the offspring must have been raised and cared for, rather than just being discarded. So perhaps there was a time when half neanderthal/half human babies were being raised in human tribes? That would be an interesting thing to witness.


It's likely that the humans and neanderthals made more of their similarities than their differences (considering they were having sex with each other, this seems likely), perhaps to the extent that they didn't necessarily view each other as different species (although, it is incredibly anachronistic to speak of species here, as it is likely this would not have been a familiar concept to humans and neanderthals alike).


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## Luke (Oct 17, 2010)

Zombie Jesus said:


> It's likely that the humans and neanderthals made more of their similarities than their differences (considering they were having sex with each other, this seems likely), perhaps to the extent that they didn't necessarily view each other as different species (although, it is incredibly anachronistic to speak of species here, as it is likely this would not have been a familiar concept to humans and neanderthals alike).


That's a possibility I haven't considered. My first thought was that the sex probably wasn't consensual. But I guess that for it to have such a large impact on our genetics it must have been happening on a large scale, which I think points towards your idea that the two groups may have interacted with each other peacefully, but I suppose there is always the disturbing possibility of mass rape.


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## PeopleDoNotThink (Sep 1, 2011)

Clan on the Cave Bear comes to mind... I had thought we had evidence that crossbreeding wasn't possible due to genetic difference, but it's delightful to be find out new information to the contrary! It's fantastic to think that our race possibly isn't inherently a bunch of xenophobic bigots, but, rather, that we came up with all that nonsense later on in our evolutionary history. Currently many of us have trouble accepting member of our own species who just happen to have a few basically inconsequential traits different than we do (skin color, hair texture, etc), but our ancestors, in some ways, must have been more accepting. Horray for neanderthal lovin'!


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## Ubuntu (Jun 17, 2011)

I'd give almost anything to be able to travel back in time and see how **** erectus, **** habilis, australopithecines etc. lived.


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## MiriMiriAru (May 1, 2011)

@PeopleDoNotThink, it's probably less a case of our ancestors being less xenophobic, than the conditions for xenophobia being less prevalent. Generally, xenophobia manifests as a dislike for those outside one's own social group. Humans, and Neanderthals, lived in relatively small groups, as most hunter-gatherer peoples do today. It is likely that they would have habitually looked outside their own group for mates, to avoid inbreeding and such (perhaps not consciously though). As they were used to mating outside their own group, they would be likely used to various differences in appearance, with Neanderthals simply being slightly more different than usual. For the Neanderthals, with evidence showing that they were being swamped by an influx of humans, the situation probably became a matter of humans being the most convenient choice.


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## Ubuntu (Jun 17, 2011)

Zombie Jesus said:


> @PeopleDoNotThink, it's probably less a case of our ancestors being less xenophobic, than the conditions for xenophobia being less prevalent. Generally, xenophobia manifests as a dislike for those outside one's own social group. *Humans, and Neanderthals*, lived in relatively small groups, as most hunter-gatherer peoples do today. It is likely that they would have habitually looked outside their own group for mates, to avoid inbreeding and such (perhaps not consciously though). As they were used to mating outside their own group, they would be likely used to various differences in appearance, with Neanderthals simply being slightly more different than usual. For the Neanderthals, with evidence showing that they were being swamped by an influx of humans, the situation probably became a matter of humans being the most convenient choice.



I know it's an unimportant point but neanderthals were also human just like bonobos and common chimpanzees are both chimpanzees despite belonging to separate species.


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## MiriMiriAru (May 1, 2011)

Ubuntu said:


> I know it's an unimportant point but neanderthals were also human just like bonobos and common chimpanzees are both chimpanzees despite belonging to separate species.


I know. I considered using **** sapiens, but human is marginally quicker to type and this seems to be the naming convention adopted in the thread. But it's good to note this, as, if neaderthals weren't human, we wouldnt be having this discussion at all.


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## PeopleDoNotThink (Sep 1, 2011)

Forgive my bit of misplaced idealism, heh. I suppose the science forum isn't the place for it. *puts on science hat* If one takes current hunter gatherer cultural practices as an indicator of the ways that early humans would have acted (which no one has any right to do as each hunter gatherer society that we have observed is its own entity with a unique history of culture change and contact) one could conceive of the interactions leading to interspecific mixing being anything from peaceful exogamy to raiding of neanderthal settlements by humans(sapiens) and the subsequent "claiming" of neanderthal women. Most likely the interactions varied from place to place with some culture reacting to the strangers with hostility and others with friendship. The only thing sure about human nature is that we are varied across a broad cultural spectrum. Its impossible to say for sure what the interactions looked like without more of the all too rare fossil evidence. It is interesting to hear that interbreeding did happen at all, though.


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## MiriMiriAru (May 1, 2011)

PeopleDoNotThink said:


> raiding of neanderthal settlements by humans(sapiens) and the subsequent "claiming" of neanderthal women.


Or vice versa. There seems to be this odd view (not from you necessarily) that Neanderthals were these sort of just very intelligent animals, and that sapiens were the only truly sentient species. The really is there is no way to know this (or if humans were even truly sentient at that time). The difference in levels of advancement between the two species were far less than between the most and least technologically advanced of modern humans. Neanderthals died out mainly from being pushed out by superior sapiens numbers. It's interesting to think what they might have become had they survived beyond the ice age (which is largely what inhibited sapiens' development of agriculture and subsequent rise).


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