# Not stereotypically Se?



## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

I am a strong Se dom, I feel. However, I like to read. A lot. Introspection is equally important as action to me. I am naturally coordinated, detail oriented (and is that an Se thing, not just Si?), my favorite things are food, pleasure, music...I move around a lot and I am very in tune with my body. But I am quite cerebral as well. 90% of my time is spent reading or on this forum. I certainly seem to be on here more than any other Se doms I've seen! (or not seen! XD)

Also, I probably talk a lot more than I actually DO. I like to talk about and imagine and consider actually doing things, but I rarely get around to it! But, when I do talk (constantly, be it on here or in person, or anywhere) it is usually concrete stuff I talk about. 

Any Se users here!?? Can you relate?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Well, F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway spent their careers writing and apparently loved to read, but they tended to write about their own adventures, or with great sensory detail and their own view of the world.

Like Fitzgerald flunked out of law school, he hated the depth, detail and precision of it I guess, but he excelled as a novelist and even had the sense to immediately turn to Hollywood when that became the "in" thing in the 30's (very Se of him to be right there with what was going on, even nearing middle age).

I love to read it's always been one of my favorite past times, but there was a time when nearly everyone read more (if they were educated) because of the lack of television and so forth.

I would guess you just come from an educated background and/or a family who valued reading, as mine did.

It looks like you score pretty low on Ne and Ni according to your signature, so I'm not sure there's any danger of you being an N type despite your love of reading.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

There's nothing here that says 'not-Se,' if that is what you're asking. Typically the Se-type is someone who basically sort of lives the world of sense perceptions based on the objective world around them, and tends to focus more on the stimuli itself (so the more stimulating an experience is, the more they are drawn to it, which is probably why you don't find a lot of Se-doms on sites like this because it is a more esoteric topic. But of course that's not a rule, I've been on religious or other spiritual forums that are filled with Se-types so there's no real rules). 

I don't think your love of reading deals much with Se (there are a number of Se authors and writers and filmmakers, etc out there so I wouldn't worry about it). 

At worst perhaps Se isn't your dominant function but maybe an aux but I wouldn't fall too hard on the stereotypes.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

LiquidLight said:


> There's nothing here that says 'not-Se,' if that is what you're asking. Typically the Se-type is someone who basically sort of lives the world of sense perceptions based on the objective world around them, and tends to focus more on the stimuli itself (so the more stimulating an experience is, the more they are drawn to it, which is probably why you don't find a lot of Se-doms on sites like this because it is a more esoteric topic. But of course that's not a rule, I've been on religious or other spiritual forums that are filled with Se-types so there's no real rules).
> 
> I don't think your love of reading deals much with Se (there are a number of Se authors and writers and filmmakers, etc out there so I wouldn't worry about it).
> 
> At worst perhaps Se isn't your dominant function but maybe an aux but I wouldn't fall too hard on the stereotypes.


I definitely still believe I am an Se dom! I just wonder if anyone can relate to this. That is a good example though, of authors and film makers often being Se doms. I have a strong imagination and I would love to write a book just so I could create my own world and attempt to explain sensory details in a way that people can FEEL it, you know?

I just often wonder why I am so drawn to all of this but most of the Se doms I know in real life couldn't care less and there are so few on this site.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

fourtines said:


> Well, F. Scott Fitzgerald and Ernest Hemingway spent their careers writing and apparently loved to read, but they tended to write about their own adventures, or with great sensory detail and their own view of the world.
> 
> Like Fitzgerald flunked out of law school, he hated the depth, detail and precision of it I guess, but he excelled as a novelist and even had the sense to immediately turn to Hollywood when that became the "in" thing in the 30's (very Se of him to be right there with what was going on, even nearing middle age).
> 
> ...


Actually, I am the only one in my family who reads (fiction for pleasure). XD ENFP mom, ISTP dad. I also have an ESTP stepdad and ESFJ stepmom. (My stepmom reads actually, and so does my stepsister.) My sister is also an ISFP and she reads a fair bit, mostly non fiction though. My parents though certainly did not influence me in that regard! My dad only reads like...users manuals. My mom will occasionally listen to books on tape.

Thank you for your response.  I doubt anyone would doubt that an ISFP might like to read though. See, I love to read, partially because it gives me something to TALK about. I don't know what other ESFPs find to talk about...haha Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of friends or family that reads much so of course no one has ever read anything I have. D: I just talk to myself, or to people on the internet. 

I suppose not liking to read is just a silly unfortunate stereotype of ESFPs and Se users in general. Although, I must say, talking to most of the other ESFPs that actually exist on here, I'm not terribly surprised that stereotype exists.


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm also a Se person and I don't think I fit any of the Se stereotypes, at least the ones defined by the functions tests. I'm a reader, too! (In fact, I don't ever want to own a Kindle because I love the way a book feels in my hand, smells, etc--especially used books--it's not necessarily because I have positive associations with the past and paper-and-paste books the way a Si user might be). I'm also fairly in tune with my body, I work out a lot (I guess also a stereotypically Se thing), and I'm extremely sensitive to color (look at my office and you'll see proof positive), sound, and taste; but I don't consider myself to be a "live in the moment" person.


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## Glenda Gnome Starr (May 12, 2011)

I love to read fiction and nonfiction and to lose myself in stories. I like books that are well written and are either fiction or nonfiction. My favorite style of fiction is magic realism. It takes a realistic view of the world and turns it in unexpected ways. 
I also like surrealistic paintings and the way that reality is stretched and changed and made to look like a bizarre dream.
Definitely not totally true to type, but we are people, not types, after all.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm the farthest from Se as can be and I was never much of a reader.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

I don't like the stereotypes for Se-doms. I find they tend to be portrayed as the "dumb jocks" of the mbti/jungian world. It's so not true. First of all, I find strong Se types often do tend to pay a lot of attention to details of it's in their interest to do so. Sherlock Holmes, is often typed as a strong Se user; he's all about the details. I know I'm derailing a little, but I seriously believe Shawn of Psych to be a Se-dom too.

Anyway, extroverted sensing, if I understand it correctly is all about interaction with the external environment, and is perceiving function which I think means, it has to do with how you see the world. Se-doms might be more likely to adapt their ideas based on what they take in through the senses. Reading can be a form of taking things in through the senses too; Se users can be very imaginative. The only difference between a sensor and an intuitive is that a sensor tends to prefer to take in information as raw data, whereas an intuitive tends to tweak the information seek patterns, etc., as their taking in information. But, at some point Se users, also use Ni; sometimes the Ni might be at a subconscious level, but it's still seeking patterns and meaning while the Se is working on the surface, some Se-doms are more in touch with their inferior Ni than others. It depends on age and the maturity of the person.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

oh yeah, and even though I'm an NJ and not an SP, I am just now becoming aware of my inferior Se and beginning to reconcile with it. When I was younger I lived inside my head and had no concept of external realities and how my behavior or appearance gave certain impressions to others. I had no sense of style, because the external did not interest me. The only times I was ever in the moment was when I heard a song I really liked or ate something I really liked but even then I would drift off to dreamland sometimes.

What I'm noticing now, is that I'm much more image conscious than I used to be. When I experience things, I tend to me more in the moment. I've noticed, too, that I really like to tweak my appearance a lot; I like to experiment with hair and make-up and clothes to create a new look for myself; I think that is a Se thing, but I don't think all Se users do that in particular, but it's what interests me, and what makes me feel good.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

kasthu said:


> I'm also a Se person and I don't think I fit any of the Se stereotypes, at least the ones defined by the functions tests. I'm a reader, too! (In fact, I don't ever want to own a Kindle because I love the way a book feels in my hand, smells, etc--especially used books--it's not necessarily because I have positive associations with the past and paper-and-paste books the way a Si user might be). I'm also fairly in tune with my body, I work out a lot (I guess also a stereotypically Se thing), and I'm extremely sensitive to color (look at my office and you'll see proof positive), sound, and taste; but I don't consider myself to be a "live in the moment" person.


I feel you! I do love reading on the computer just because of the availability of information (wikipedia, forums, fanfiction ), and a kindle sounds very cool and conveniant, but I love books and I love to own books. I love the feel of a book in my hands, and yes, particularly used ones, though that is actually more because I am cheap. ^.^ We have a half price book store near my house and it is by far my favorite place to shop. I can spend sixty bucks there and walk away with ten books! I don't mind the library either though. I can't help myself from shopping so when I'm broke, I'll just go to the library and it relieves my urge to grab things and take them home. XD

I wonder if this is an Se thing, but I always smell a book before I buy it. I think it originally started with books, but I've caught myself doing it with other things, on the down low.  I'm probably just a freak of nature, actually. I am very attuned to my sense of smell though. And taste and sound! I just can't imagine intuitives don't feel the same way...these functions must be over simplified because senses are the best!


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

walking tourist said:


> I love to read fiction and nonfiction and to lose myself in stories. I like books that are well written and are either fiction or nonfiction. My favorite style of fiction is magic realism. It takes a realistic view of the world and turns it in unexpected ways.
> I also like surrealistic paintings and the way that reality is stretched and changed and made to look like a bizarre dream.
> Definitely not totally true to type, but we are people, not types, after all.


I love fantasy genre stuff! Never heard of this 'magic realism' you speak of though. I will have to check it out!

I don't like abstract or surreal art myself. Your Ni is more accesible than mine though! I am kind of an Se extremist in some ways. My sister is an ISFP and she has a much greater appreciation for that sort of thing than I do. I am just a hard core literalist. I don't like to have to look for something that as far as I can tell, just isn't there!


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

dulcinea said:


> I don't like the stereotypes for Se-doms. I find they tend to be portrayed as the "dumb jocks" of the mbti/jungian world. It's so not true. First of all, I find strong Se types often do tend to pay a lot of attention to details of it's in their interest to do so. Sherlock Holmes, is often typed as a strong Se user; he's all about the details. I know I'm derailing a little, but I seriously believe Shawn of Psych to be a Se-dom too.
> 
> Anyway, extroverted sensing, if I understand it correctly is all about interaction with the external environment, and is perceiving function which I think means, it has to do with how you see the world. Se-doms might be more likely to adapt their ideas based on what they take in through the senses. Reading can be a form of taking things in through the senses too; Se users can be very imaginative. The only difference between a sensor and an intuitive is that a sensor tends to prefer to take in information as raw data, whereas an intuitive tends to tweak the information seek patterns, etc., as their taking in information. But, at some point Se users, also use Ni; sometimes the Ni might be at a subconscious level, but it's still seeking patterns and meaning while the Se is working on the surface, some Se-doms are more in touch with their inferior Ni than others. It depends on age and the maturity of the person.


Good points! I am so perceptive that I sometimes feel that either I or all the ESFPs people claim to know are severely mistyped! I really feel like it is mainly the ESFPs with this stereotype and not so much the other Se users, but ESFPs are so commonly considered clueless and oblivious...I wouldn't think the Se would allow us to be that way, though. People always say I am oddly perceptive. Someone "accused" me of being intuitive yesterday because I noticed something he would never notice. I said not intuitive, just perceptive. An intuiter may notice patterns of some nature that I do not understand, but I notice patterns as well. In behavior, environment, and the things people say, and I can put them together quite nicely to make some accurate assumptions when I'm on my game! I do take in the information in the raw form for sure though! But I don't understand how or why you would NOT do that...Wouldn't that bias the information and render it [potentially] inaccurate? See what I mean? Some of the descriptions of intuition just baffle me.

And I definitely feel that for me, reading is a form of sensing.


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## chwoey (Mar 29, 2012)

My type says ISTP, but I think I am actually probably a ESTP or ESFP (I see myself in most functions). 
I also like to read, I was raised in a family that read. My dad started reading to me when I was 4 and I quickly learned so I could read to him. When I was younger I loved reading out loud and altering my voice to the characters and situations in the books (I've always been an "entertainer"/attention whore). 

I think I also don't follow the Se stereotype because I don't really enjoy working out (I used to LOVE running in the woods), standing in a room full of sweaty people lifting things doesn't seem fun to me. I'd rather be playing a video game or reading something on the internet (or watching weird youtube videos). I'm pretty scrawny, and I have no desires to start working out. 

Aswell, I don't enjoy movies (especially action movies), I find they are boring. I'm the type who sits down to start watching a movie and quickly loses interest. I think my Ti (if I am in fact a ESTP) is fairly well developed so action movies bore me if they don't intellectually stimulate me. If an action movie doesn't make logical sense then I HAVE to stop watching it, it just irritates me.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

chwoey said:


> My type says ISTP, but I think I am actually probably a ESTP or ESFP (I see myself in most functions).
> I also like to read, I was raised in a family that read. My dad started reading to me when I was 4 and I quickly learned so I could read to him. When I was younger I loved reading out loud and altering my voice to the characters and situations in the books (I've always been an "entertainer"/attention whore).
> 
> I think I also don't follow the Se stereotype because I don't really enjoy working out (I used to LOVE running in the woods), standing in a room full of sweaty people lifting things doesn't seem fun to me. I'd rather be playing a video game or reading something on the internet (or watching weird youtube videos). I'm pretty scrawny, and I have no desires to start working out.
> ...


I would not think that of an ISTP at all, mostly based on my dad who hates attention and being put on the spot. Sometimes I think he could be an ISTJ, but ISTP suits him slightly better. ESTP I could see though! Hehe you sound very confused. And your badge thingy says INTJ! But you are pretty close on everything there...Do you really think you are a sensor?

I don't mind going to the gym and I used to go every morning, but now I find it hard to get motivated. I actually HATE running though. D: If I am going to excercise, the only way I don't tire out quickly is it there is either competition or co-operation involved. I like racquet sports a lot. 

I definitely feel you with the movies! I hate action movies unless they have some good plot and character development to make me actually CARE about what is going on. Car chases and explosions do nothing for me unless I am invested in the characters. I don't watch a lot of movies in general.


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## chwoey (Mar 29, 2012)

roastingmallows said:


> I would not think that of an ISTP at all, mostly based on my dad who hates attention and being put on the spot. Sometimes I think he could be an ISTJ, but ISTP suits him slightly better. ESTP I could see though! Hehe you sound very confused. And your badge thingy says INTJ! But you are pretty close on everything there...Do you really think you are a sensor?
> 
> I don't mind going to the gym and I used to go every morning, but now I find it hard to get motivated. I actually HATE running though. D: If I am going to excercise, the only way I don't tire out quickly is it there is either competition or co-operation involved. I like racquet sports a lot.
> 
> I definitely feel you with the movies! I hate action movies unless they have some good plot and character development to make me actually CARE about what is going on. Car chases and explosions do nothing for me unless I am invested in the characters. I don't watch a lot of movies in general.


I really was leaning towards ISTP because my results on other tests always connect back with ISTP (taken SLOAN probably 5 different times over the years and I always get types that people relate to ISTPs) and I thought I related very well to Ti (I still do, but I'm a bit confused now). On all MBTI tests I get very close to the center in all ways (my results can range from ISTJ to ENFP all in the same day) so I just can't go by the tests.

I think I'm a sensor because I don't relate to Ne at all (I find it a bit annoying to talk to Ne-dom users IRL) and I simply can't see myself using Ni in a dom or aux position. I'm starting to realize that, though I am shy, I am an extrovert and I'm definitely not a Te or Fe dom... Se-dom seems to be the most likely dominant function for me based on all of that. 

Does this sound like Se to you?
If I wake up early, I will get ready for class and then put on music and dance in front of the mirror singing loudly and just generally enjoy myself.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

chwoey said:


> I really was leaning towards ISTP because my results on other tests always connect back with ISTP (taken SLOAN probably 5 different times over the years and I always get types that people relate to ISTPs) and I thought I related very well to Ti (I still do, but I'm a bit confused now). On all MBTI tests I get very close to the center in all ways (my results can range from ISTJ to ENFP all in the same day) so I just can't go by the tests.
> 
> I think I'm a sensor because I don't relate to Ne at all (I find it a bit annoying to talk to Ne-dom users IRL) and I simply can't see myself using Ni in a dom or aux position. I'm starting to realize that, though I am shy, I am an extrovert and I'm definitely not a Te or Fe dom... Se-dom seems to be the most likely dominant function for me based on all of that.
> 
> ...


How do you relate to the feeling functions? Also, what is your SLOAN code? 

I find Ne to be a bit annoying IRL too. Shh don't tell anyone I said that. I find that they will draw conclusions out of thin air, jump around from topic to topic, and have very radical ideas about things. "Radical" to me meaning nonsensical. (Ni is weird in a slightly different way. Like more focused on a single nutso idea and being kind of obsessive.) You may be a super sensor!

I don't know if that would be a big deciding factor of being a sensor, but I do that. XD Gotta get pumped for the day!


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## luemb (Dec 21, 2010)

I'm pretty sure one of my friends is an ESFP and she's always reading. 

I read a lot too though, any time I can get my hands on a book. It's addicting. 

(INTJ and ESFP actually can go together quite well, if both are intelligent and don't try to make the other person like themselves  )


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

walking tourist said:


> I love to read fiction and nonfiction and to lose myself in stories. I like books that are well written and are either fiction or nonfiction. My favorite style of fiction is magic realism. It takes a realistic view of the world and turns it in unexpected ways.
> I also like surrealistic paintings and the way that reality is stretched and changed and made to look like a bizarre dream.
> Definitely not totally true to type, but we are people, not types, after all.


ever read any charles de'lint? my mom lent me a book of his once.

his stuff is always about some ordinary (usually made up) city that harbors a secret people, fairy kingdom, or native american mythical figures who attempt to blend into a society/world that has grown up around them. you might be interested.



dulcinea said:


> I don't like the stereotypes for Se-doms. I find they tend to be portrayed as the "dumb jocks" of the mbti/jungian world. It's so not true. First of all, I find strong Se types often do tend to pay a lot of attention to details of it's in their interest to do so. Sherlock Holmes, is often typed as a strong Se user; he's all about the details. I know I'm derailing a little, but I seriously believe Shawn of Psych to be a Se-dom too.


lol, the first episode i ever saw of that show, that's exactly what i thought too. Se/Ni, Ni/Se, to me it's almost like its really just one thing that is either turned inwards or outwards (with less of a focus on "intuition" and "sensing" which seems almost like the result of it being turned inward [=focus is on what is subjectively taken from external], or outward [=focus on what the world is showing, with leftover focus being put on subjective take), and Shawn is the epitome of it turned upon the world (on steroids to boot). 

everything about his approach is a montage of seemingly unconnected sensory details that most would miss, and these connections are usually unbroken and therefore lack any "jump between details". that would show an almost complete lack of a "conventional/stereotypical" use of an N-function, but i think that if viewed from further back, what is it that drives his outward search? there is something there that drives him, and something that almost invisible (in his actions or his experience) that seems to hold everything together--i mean, finding one clue doesn't necessarily lead to finding another, but something leads him to the others (unbeknownst to himself). anyway, what you said kind of sparked something that i thought about that character, and slightly tied in with my new way of viewing dom/inferior dichotomies.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

roastingmallows said:


> Good points! I am so perceptive that I sometimes feel that either I or all the ESFPs people claim to know are severely mistyped! I really feel like it is mainly the ESFPs with this stereotype and not so much the other Se users, but ESFPs are so commonly considered clueless and oblivious...I wouldn't think the Se would allow us to be that way, though. People always say I am oddly perceptive. Someone "accused" me of being intuitive yesterday because I noticed something he would never notice. I said not intuitive, just perceptive. An intuiter may notice patterns of some nature that I do not understand, but I notice patterns as well. In behavior, environment, and the things people say, and I can put them together quite nicely to make some accurate assumptions when I'm on my game! I do take in the information in the raw form for sure though! But I don't understand how or why you would NOT do that...Wouldn't that bias the information and render it [potentially] inaccurate? See what I mean? Some of the descriptions of intuition just baffle me.
> 
> And I definitely feel that for me, reading is a form of sensing.


My definition of intuition, at least introverted intuition, is that an intuitive will prefer to see everything around them as like one of those scatter plot charts, and look for correlations between something and something else. Intuitive dominants tend to be very good at using their intuition to come up with correlations, patterns--I have accurately predicted the future lots of times in my journal. If you don't really understand how intuition works than that's probably a sign of being a sensing dominant. It sounds like you use your intuition a lot but probably on a more subconscious level. Personally I think a Ni dom will be more likely to come across as clueless and oblivious especially if a Ni dom hasn't gotten in touch with their sensing side yet. It's weird, for some of us, it's like we can see the storm in the horizon better than we can see the raindrops actually dripping on us, if that makes sense.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, Ni-doms also use Se all the time and are just not aware of it. It wasn't until recently I realized how observant I am. Ni doms tend to take in a lot of information, probably through the inferior Se, but the Ni almost immediately gets to works seeking patterns, cause and effect and deeper meaning to the information taken in by the Se. That's how Ni-doms get the reputation for seeming psychic or knowing things without knowing how they know them. They see and hear everything without even realizing it. I know for me, I can have a conversation with someone, zone out to the point of not hearing who or what exactly the other person is talking about and come back to being attentive and still be able to figure out exactly what they're talking about just by putting the pieces together in my head.

I've noticed when I'm around ESTPs that their thought process is just like mine, but inverted, it's crazy.


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

roastingmallows said:


> How do you relate to the feeling functions? Also, what is your SLOAN code?
> 
> I find Ne to be a bit annoying IRL too. Shh don't tell anyone I said that. I find that they will draw conclusions out of thin air, jump around from topic to topic, and have very radical ideas about things. "Radical" to me meaning nonsensical. (Ni is weird in a slightly different way. Like more focused on a single nutso idea and being kind of obsessive.) You may be a super sensor!
> 
> I don't know if that would be a big deciding factor of being a sensor, but I do that. XD Gotta get pumped for the day!


Haha, I think Ne is a bit ADHD sometimes. I mean some people I know of who might be Ne doms appear to be that way. Whereas Ni is much more focused and it can operate with laser-beam precision. Definitely obsessive and a bit stubborn when they get set on an idea.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

I wanted to add to that an unhealthy and unstable Ni-dom will have ideas that are biased and inaccurate, so your correct in what you say, because too much dependance on an intuitive function will cause an intuitive, especially a Ni-dom to have ideas that have no basis in reality but will only look for evidence to support it, however meager, and will dismiss all evidence to the contrary.


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## chwoey (Mar 29, 2012)

roastingmallows said:


> How do you relate to the feeling functions? Also, what is your SLOAN code?
> 
> I find Ne to be a bit annoying IRL too. Shh don't tell anyone I said that. I find that they will draw conclusions out of thin air, jump around from topic to topic, and have very radical ideas about things. "Radical" to me meaning nonsensical. (Ni is weird in a slightly different way. Like more focused on a single nutso idea and being kind of obsessive.) You may be a super sensor!
> 
> I don't know if that would be a big deciding factor of being a sensor, but I do that. XD Gotta get pumped for the day!


The feeling functions are odd for me as well. I don't verbally express my emotions/feelings like a Fe would, but I think I am the type who needs to express their emotions in some way. I've been described as wearing my heart on my sleeve. Though I'm not often upset, if I am upset you can tell. My verbal language changes greatly based on emotions and I think I express myself facially to a high degree. I could be a Fi type though, my past was filled with lots of depression and intense emotions.. I had a best friend describe me as "probably bi-polar". Idk though, I'm not great with feelings and emotions (I generally run away when someone is very emotional). 
My SLOAN is *RLUEN*, though even then.. My scores are generally close to the center. 

Ne types also seem to tell stories and jump all over the place, by the time they are done I have no idea where the conversation started. The ones I know throw out crazy ideas all the time and it just seems SO unnecessary at times. I haven't really met many people who express their Ni in any way. My dad is an INTJ but he is extremely introverted and he keeps to himself most of the time. The only examples of this that I see are if me and my ENFP mom are having a conversation with him and the topic will change and maybe 15 minutes later my dad will come out with this really intense argument about something we were talking about previously. 

Are you Se types morning people? I know I am!


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## mell (Aug 9, 2012)

chwoey said:


> The feeling functions are odd for me as well. I don't verbally express my emotions/feelings like a Fe would, but I think I am the type who needs to express their emotions in some way. I've been described as wearing my heart on my sleeve. Though I'm not often upset, if I am upset you can tell. My verbal language changes greatly based on emotions and I think I express myself facially to a high degree. I could be a Fi type though, my past was filled with lots of depression and intense emotions.. I had a best friend describe me as "probably bi-polar". Idk though, I'm not great with feelings and emotions (I generally run away when someone is very emotional).
> My SLOAN is *RLUEN*, though even then.. My scores are generally close to the center.
> 
> Ne types also seem to tell stories and jump all over the place, by the time they are done I have no idea where the conversation started. The ones I know throw out crazy ideas all the time and it just seems SO unnecessary at times. I haven't really met many people who express their Ni in any way. My dad is an INTJ but he is extremely introverted and he keeps to himself most of the time. The only examples of this that I see are if me and my ENFP mom are having a conversation with him and the topic will change and maybe 15 minutes later my dad will come out with this really intense argument about something we were talking about previously.
> ...


Also a morning person. I know a few ENFPs who are close with me but I don't mind the bouncy Ne so much. Although, long conversations where the topic is constantly changing can be quite a drag most of the time. 

Most people say that Fi types seem to hide their feelings and not show them in any physical manner but I'm sure there are some Fi users that do. About you running away when someone gets emotional around you, most of the time I don't feel the need to run away. I'm usually so fixated on myself and my own feelings that another person's outward feelings won't change anything in me. This is not to say I am mean and don't care about others (I consider myself a kind person), it's rather that I just always act myself. But then there are times where I will feel a ton of empathy for someone because something happened that I just can't let go. Hearing about hazing of any kind touches a nerve in me and awakens a passion in me that is very noticeable for anyone who has witnessed it. 

As far as people being able to tell your emotions through tone of voice, face, etc, I am not sure how that works for Fe types but even if I'm stressed nobody can tell unless I tell them flat out. It is only when a nerve of mine has been touched that people can tell and I'm very obvious, strict, and to the point when it happens. Probably more of an inferior Te thing. I don't speak for all Fi users (especially since Fi is just a judging function based on internal values not emotions) so others will be very different from me.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

dulcinea said:


> My definition of intuition, at least introverted intuition, is that an intuitive will prefer to see everything around them as like one of those scatter plot charts, and look for correlations between something and something else. Intuitive dominants tend to be very good at using their intuition to come up with correlations, patterns--I have accurately predicted the future lots of times in my journal. If you don't really understand how intuition works than that's probably a sign of being a sensing dominant. It sounds like you use your intuition a lot but probably on a more subconscious level. Personally I think a Ni dom will be more likely to come across as clueless and oblivious especially if a Ni dom hasn't gotten in touch with their sensing side yet. It's weird, for some of us, it's like we can see the storm in the horizon better than we can see the raindrops actually dripping on us, if that makes sense.
> 
> At the opposite end of the spectrum, Ni-doms also use Se all the time and are just not aware of it. It wasn't until recently I realized how observant I am. Ni doms tend to take in a lot of information, probably through the inferior Se, but the Ni almost immediately gets to works seeking patterns, cause and effect and deeper meaning to the information taken in by the Se. That's how Ni-doms get the reputation for seeming psychic or knowing things without knowing how they know them. They see and hear everything without even realizing it. I know for me, I can have a conversation with someone, zone out to the point of not hearing who or what exactly the other person is talking about and come back to being attentive and still be able to figure out exactly what they're talking about just by putting the pieces together in my head.
> 
> I've noticed when I'm around ESTPs that their thought process is just like mine, but inverted, it's crazy.


That was a slightly more comprehendible description of Ni than most I have heard, but I think you are right. That is one of the main ways I know I am Se dom: The fact that I have no idea what Ni DOES even though I've read a ton about it, and the function just makes no sense to me. And I get bored reading about it because it means nothing to me. Ne is a bit simpler and I actually use a fair bit of Ne (at least compared to Ni).


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

kasthu said:


> Haha, I think Ne is a bit ADHD sometimes. I mean some people I know of who might be Ne doms appear to be that way. Whereas Ni is much more focused and it can operate with laser-beam precision. Definitely obsessive and a bit stubborn when they get set on an idea.


I really only know one Ni dom, an INFJ, my brother in law. When he gets an idea in his head, he goes all the way, and he is definitely stubborn! My mom is ENFP though and she gets a million ideas and plans every day and rarely follows through.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

dulcinea said:


> I wanted to add to that an unhealthy and unstable Ni-dom will have ideas that are biased and inaccurate, so your correct in what you say, because too much dependance on an intuitive function will cause an intuitive, especially a Ni-dom to have ideas that have no basis in reality but will only look for evidence to support it, however meager, and will dismiss all evidence to the contrary.


Sounds like my ENFJ boss! Although she is actually an Fe dom not Ni, but I think the Fe makes it worse because she gets delusions about people. The two craziest, most deluded women I know are unhealthy ENFJs.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

chwoey said:


> The feeling functions are odd for me as well. I don't verbally express my emotions/feelings like a Fe would, but I think I am the type who needs to express their emotions in some way. I've been described as wearing my heart on my sleeve. Though I'm not often upset, if I am upset you can tell. My verbal language changes greatly based on emotions and I think I express myself facially to a high degree. I could be a Fi type though, my past was filled with lots of depression and intense emotions.. I had a best friend describe me as "probably bi-polar". Idk though, I'm not great with feelings and emotions (I generally run away when someone is very emotional).
> My SLOAN is *RLUEN*, though even then.. My scores are generally close to the center.
> 
> Ne types also seem to tell stories and jump all over the place, by the time they are done I have no idea where the conversation started. The ones I know throw out crazy ideas all the time and it just seems SO unnecessary at times. I haven't really met many people who express their Ni in any way. My dad is an INTJ but he is extremely introverted and he keeps to himself most of the time. The only examples of this that I see are if me and my ENFP mom are having a conversation with him and the topic will change and maybe 15 minutes later my dad will come out with this really intense argument about something we were talking about previously.
> ...


Your description of yourself sounded quite a lot like me, actually. You kind of sound like an Fi user. What makes you upset though? The way I relate to Fi (being an internal value thing) is that I get very upset when I feel that someone betrayed me or someone that I really cared about/respected does something that goes against everything I stand for and I never thought they would do. I am very easy going usually, but that is rough for me. However, I don't like to show that I am upset. I am usually not vindictive. My reaction is typically to shut them out of my life forever and attempt to never see them or think of them again. (I hate confrontation.) If someone does something that makes me think of them differently in a negative way, I will just never look at them the same way. And I am not talking about moral stuff, but like if I have given a lot to someone and helped them out and then when I need something they just don't seem to care, that really upsets me. Or unabashed greed when generosity is a very important virtue to me.

RLUEN doesn't sound like an ESFP though. XD What is your main trait?

You know, morning is a weird time for me. I love to sleep. A LOT. I need to be forcefully woken up, but when I am up and have had some coffee, I'm always really glad I woke up. I love the morning but I hate WAKING up. I will have to make a poll about this.


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## jcamero (Oct 19, 2012)

I wanted to know the difference between ISFP and INFP because both have the strongest artistic potential.So Kind of like an experiment, I started a thread of posting a favorite traditional paint on canvas painting for both personalities. The results were astounding!

INFP's posted paintings from the 16th century to early 20th century. The paintings posted were romantic and had that dream factor about them. Most paintings were by famous artists.

ISFP's posted paintings that were strictly late 20th century early 21st century! None of the artists were famous accept for Bob Ross! The majority of the paintings were nature, or cityscape and the paintings in my own opinion lacked depth and meaning and use of symbolism. They made me feel not think. ISFP's in conclusion focus on the way its painted not so much the meaning. They are also more present related than Intuitives being all artists were modern compared to the INFP's. They actually have more potential to be avant-garde for that reason. 

It's results like that that really make me give Carl Jung respect. That is the difference between S an N.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

roastingmallows said:


> That was a slightly more comprehendible description of Ni than most I have heard, but I think you are right. That is one of the main ways I know I am Se dom: The fact that I have no idea what Ni DOES even though I've read a ton about it, and the function just makes no sense to me. And I get bored reading about it because it means nothing to me. Ne is a bit simpler and I actually use a fair bit of Ne (at least compared to Ni).


If you're a Se-dom, from what I understand, whenever you use Ni, it seems more like Ne, because the Se always ends up taking over at some point. I know in my case, I'm never able to use Se by itself without having some kind of intuitive thought process happening, so when I become more aware of my Se, it does come across as being more like Ne, so I find on cognitive function tests, I'll score as making much better use of Ne than Se, when I'm actually using Se all the time. I think it's funny how the inferior function works. It rarely goes unsupervised by the dominant function, I guess because when it does, it tends to go crazy. This description of Ni may possibly sound more familiar. It comes from here



> *Internal Confusion*
> 
> Effective dominant Introverted Intuitive types are noted for their intellectual clarity�their ability to process and integrate complex information. In the grip of inferior Introverted Intuition, Extraverted Sensing types become confused by unfamiliar inner processes. An ESFP in her early twenties described being out of character when her mind starts wandering. An ESTP described herself as �flustered, haphazard, out of control, especially about details; I forget things.� Because their negative Intuition is internalized, fantasies of impending disaster and dire possibilities are typically self-referential or limited to the people closest to them. They may have overwhelming fears about fatal illnesses, forebodings about losing an important relationship, and anxiety about harm coming to a loved one.
> 
> ...


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

dulcinea said:


> If you're a Se-dom, from what I understand, whenever you use Ni, it seems more like Ne, because the Se always ends up taking over at some point. I know in my case, I'm never able to use Se by itself without having some kind of intuitive thought process happening, so when I become more aware of my Se, it does come across as being more like Ne, so I find on cognitive function tests, I'll score as making much better use of Ne than Se, when I'm actually using Se all the time. I think it's funny how the inferior function works. It rarely goes unsupervised by the dominant function, I guess because when it does, it tends to go crazy. This description of Ni may possibly sound more familiar. It comes from here


I love that article! It was so enlightening for me. I just recently escaped 'the grip' of Ni. For about a month my Ni was fighting for control and it was making my thoughts very strange and existential and I started thinking about things I usually avoid thinking about like philosophy and religion, and I became very anxious and withdrawn. It was totally lame! So I guess I will never understand Ni except in the most negative form possible. XD


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

roastingmallows said:


> I love that article! It was so enlightening for me. I just recently escaped 'the grip' of Ni. For about a month my Ni was fighting for control and it was making my thoughts very strange and existential and I started thinking about things I usually avoid thinking about like philosophy and religion, and I became very anxious and withdrawn. It was totally lame! So I guess I will never understand Ni except in the most negative form possible. XD


You'll probably find as you get older, those tendencies will calm down some, especially if you spend enough time around healthy, mature, NJ types. To be honest, I think that might be why I swooped up on this thread so fast: I tend to enjoy being around mature SPs a lot and discussing extroverted sensing, because it helps me understand how to get a better grip on my inferior Se.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

dulcinea said:


> You'll probably find as you get older, those tendencies will calm down some, especially if you spend enough time around healthy, mature, NJ types. To be honest, I think that might be why I swooped up on this thread so fast: I tend to enjoy being around mature SPs a lot and discussing extroverted sensing, because it helps me understand how to get a better grip on my inferior Se.


I could certainly benefit from getting a better grip on my Ni, I know that! Most of my functions are moderately developed with the exception of through the roof Se and Fi, but my Ni is like negative. I have no idea how to deal with it when it rears its ugly head. ^.^ When I went through my little Ni funk, it all seemed to start when I got a desk job. I suppose it makes sense...starting a job that neglected/stifled my preferred function would naturally bring about its opposite. You must nurture your dominant function!

Isn't it nice? We actually found several SPs here.

How does your inf Se manifest?


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I am a power-reader, but my wife is Si and she likes books too. It is one of the things that we've always had in common.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

roastingmallows said:


> How does your inf Se manifest?


I start dreading certain experiences; if life is stressing me out enough, I just begin to dread any interaction with the outside world. I tend to go overboard with activities that give me pleasure. When I'm stressed and act out, and I tend to become really impulsive. When I was younger, I used to be obsessive about paying attention to ALL the details, but I guess, since I've had to work at jobs where paying attention to detail on a regular basis was important, I think I've learn to get a hold of this aspect of inferior Se. Also, when I'm tired, I hear every little noise and it drives me nuts. I get overstimulated easily, but I find, too, having to work in fast paced jobs that require tons of overstimulation, has helped me to deal with that better too. I'm working on the rest of the traits.

I also sometimes experience Se in positive ways too, though. I love getting together with friends sharing a really good meal, and listening to really good music, and just enjoying the experience. However, unless I'm with really good friends that I know enjoy my company. I tend to be a bit inhibited in expressing myself. When I'm experiencing life via Se, I do always get this sense that it's being supervised somewhat.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

I know an ESTP who has over 200 physical books; all fiction. These are all books he has read (including more that people have lent to him), he also has a bunch on his eReader. He loves to read, and I can imagine him needing to own just a room to fit his books in when he grows older. Well, that would be like a small library... xD

I love books too, but sometimes I get very bored with them and want to start another. Mainly because I am excited by the idea of reading something amazing, and I don't want to miss out on it. From time to time, I will be reading maybe 4 books at a time trying to finish them all. Unless, I find one that really captures my attention and I can just sit there and get lost in the story without accounting for the time. 

I think it comes down to style of writing too. I get very impatient when things get too detailed just for the sake of good writing. I like my author's direct, and to the point.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

firedell said:


> I know an ESTP who has over 200 physical books; all fiction. These are all books he has read (including more that people have lent to him), he also has a bunch on his eReader. He loves to read, and I can imagine him needing to own just a room to fit his books in when he grows older. Well, that would be like a small library... xD
> 
> I love books too, but sometimes I get very bored with them and want to start another. Mainly because I am excited by the idea of reading something amazing, and I don't want to miss out on it. From time to time, I will be reading maybe 4 books at a time trying to finish them all. Unless, I find one that really captures my attention and I can just sit there and get lost in the story without accounting for the time.
> 
> I think it comes down to style of writing too. I get very impatient when things get too detailed just for the sake of good writing. I like my author's direct, and to the point.


How funny. I forgot to mention that I do have a habit of reading like, a fourth of a book and forgetting about it and reading another one. There have been times where I've been reading 4+ books at once too. It's weird for me. When I pick up a book, it usually takes me a good eighty pages to get invested in the story, more or less depending on how fast paced it is. If I'm interupted before I reach the eighty page mark, I will more often than not never pick it up again. I need to be thoroughly invested in a story to the point where even when I'm not reading it, I am still thinking about it. 

Also, my sister who we're PRETTY SURE is an ISFP, but could be an ISFJ, she mostly reads non fiction because she so hates metaphorical talk and flowery description. It is hard to find a fiction book that can keep her attention. She is only interested in the action and a bit of dialogue. I on the other hand like my books to be more subtle sometimes. I love description and metaphor. I am a much stronger reader than her as well though. I started reading about as young as she was when she started talking. XD I am much more verbal than her in general. She is more interested in visuals and material items whereas I am more interested in relationships and dialogue. I dono if that is related to our functions since we most likely have the same ones. Unless it has more to do with me being an extravert and more interested in conversation and interaction in general.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

roastingmallows said:


> Also, my sister who we're PRETTY SURE is an ISFP, but could be an ISFJ, she mostly reads non fiction because she so hates metaphorical talk and flowery description. It is hard to find a fiction book that can keep her attention. She is only interested in the action and a bit of dialogue. I on the other hand like my books to be more subtle sometimes. I love description and metaphor. I am a much stronger reader than her as well though. I started reading about as young as she was when she started talking. XD I am much more verbal than her in general. She is more interested in visuals and material items whereas I am more interested in relationships and dialogue. I dono if that is related to our functions since we most likely have the same ones. Unless it has more to do with me being an extravert and more interested in conversation and interaction in general.



To be honest, this year alone has been a struggle as I have been determined only to read fiction books. In recent years I have only had the patience to read nonfiction books, as fiction takes longer to capture my attention and I don't feel guilty if I leave one of those behind.

I dislike leaving fiction books because it hasn't captured my attention. I feel as if I have let myself down, and should keep going, as it could get better. I went back to one yesterday which I had left for a good 4 months, bookmarked more than half way through; I couldn't just leave it there.

I will say, yeah I am more for the action and dialogue too. I don't like the "fluff" in between. I get bored with that bit, my mind will wander, and I'll have to re-read it. xD


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## madhatter (May 30, 2010)

Hi, I'm ISTP, and reading is my favorite thing to do, no joke. I often joke that my mother read to me in the womb, and it's true. I have two older siblings that she read out loud to while she was pregnant with me, so stories and books have been in my life since the beginning. 

I'm the opposite when it comes to fiction and non-fiction. I don't have the patience to sit through a non-fiction book. It's only been recently where I've been willingly reading more non-fiction.

It's funny to me to see that there are other fellow Se-users who can't finish a book to save their life.  I am often reading three or four books at once. I am a very impatient, restless, and capricious reader at times, as well as highly selective. I've read so much, it takes a lot to impress me and hook me into a story. Life is too short to read crappy books. I have too many good books that I want to read, and not enough time to get through them.

Two walls of my bedroom are covered with three big bookshelves, and I have actually run out of room for my books. I'm always acquiring more. I love going on Amazon, or browsing in Barnes and Noble. There are also two used book stores that I absolutely love, one of them which is a 4-story warehouse filled wall-to-wall with books. I could get lost in there forever. I love the smell and feel of books myself, but I really want a Kindle too. My only problem with it is that I don't want to re-buy all my books! And you're not a weirdo, @roastingmallows (or maybe we're just both weirdos), but I always smell the books in the bookstore.

On a different note, what kind of fantasy do you like? It's one of my favorite genres.


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## Ambivalent (Dec 15, 2012)

Judging by your posts on this thread, you're probably right about ESxP being the mbti type that describes you the best. There are some Se dom stereotypes that I just don't get like being a jock or taking charge or being dumb. I kind of get the superficial stereotype (b/c Se takes things at face value). But even then, I don't think it's a good idea to assume that just b/c some1's a Se dom that makes them shallow.


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## The Wanderering ______ (Jul 17, 2012)

I had a question. I think I have extroverted Intuition, but I can sometimes see extroverted sensing in me. For instance I can sometimes smell distinctive smells that tell me when certain people have been. Also I can hear things and instantly Visualize in my mind what that thing is. So does that mean I am an Extraverted sensor, not an extraverted Intuitive?


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## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

Sounds like you're using Si in this case. You're getting an impression of something, not the thing itself. It also depends on the context of when/how.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm really happy to see this thread. Thanks, @roastingmallows.

My good ESTP friend loves to read. His taste and mine (ISTP) are the same: mystical theology, biographies and writings of saints, etc. (Interestingly, I think those things relate to Ni but come to us in Se form. We can follow the Ni patterns without having to find them ourselves. Just a thought.) Anyway, when my friend's not reading he can be found dominating the football (soccer) field or talking to people. Oh, by the way, he's a monk (speaking of breaking stereotypes).

Personally, I never go anywhere without a book and I'm always in the middle of at least six of them. My life: Eat, sleep, read, pray, exercise. Rinse, repeat. Oh, and I only ever read a fiction book if it's recommended to me by someone I trust. Lame imaginary stories are a waste of my time and bore me to death. Same conditions for movies.

I have another friend I'm fairly sure is an ESFP. The type fits in every way except that she is a biblioholic. She eats books for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. She's been this way her whole life. She majored in literature and theatre and now works in publishing; at the very hip, trendy end of it. Ever since we were kids, she always knows what's new and what's up-and-coming. She's also an excellent writer, journalist, and poet, and was editor of our high school newspaper. Because of her literary interests I'm always tempted to slip her into the ENFP category, but I have ENFP friends and I don't think she's one of them, I think her finger on the pulse of the world around her is an Se thing, and I don't see that Ne imagination in her.

Another friend who loves to read is definitely an ESFP. He's a fanatic hiker and outdoorsman, but he loves literature and poetry, and majored in lit. Not sure exactly what he's doing with that degree now, though . . .


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## Mouse222 (Jun 29, 2011)

Fight the stereotypes! But in all seriousness, Se doesn't mean that the individual isn't cerebral or that they only care about the physical. This is the common case of, "MBTI is just a theory and still has many flaws, but it is still a good tool to use and can lead to a better understanding of personality." On a different note, I love writing, so trust me, there is not a specific function for doing it.


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