# Could I really be INTJ?



## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

So I took the test this site links to multiple times and I can't get anything but INTJ. There are many aspects of that description that do just seem to fit, but I am not completely positive it's me. I took a test on another site and I got completely different results, ISTP. That one sounded less like me, but still with some relevant characteristics.

So I'm wondering how accurate is it to use these tests and to define ourselves by types? Would each person not at any given point in their life display one of these types? There are times when a person might act completely ISTP, or INTJ, and does the fact that they are one of them 60% of the time and the other 40% really make them that dominant type? 

Do my questions help to figure me out haha?

I'm 100% sure I'm I, and definitely T. From individual descriptions of each component, I don't really understand the difference between S and N, but I sound more like a J than a P. 

A little help perhaps?


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## WYSIWYG (Nov 10, 2009)

If you are INTJ, here are your cognitive processes:
Ni - Foreseeing implications, transformations, and likely effects
Supported by Te - Segmenting, organizing for efficiency, and systematizing

If you are ISTP, here are your cognitive processes:
Ti - Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles
Supported by Se - Experiencing and acting in the immediate context.

Which functions do you tend to use more naturally?


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## priestess (Dec 2, 2009)

Quick response...(I'm INTJ BTW). Do you tend to plan and organize things? Do you prefer when decisions are made or are more open ended? Do you have a tendency to be judgmental at times (not as tolerant as you would like to be)? If so, then you are a J. 

Otherwise, if you are a P, you tend to be much more flexible and tolerant of ambiguity. You don't mind if things are left hanging in the air. You might be indecisive and uncomfortable if a decision is actually made because it seems that you can't go back and change your mind.

If neither of these sounds quite like you - then you probably stradle the middle - both INTP & INTJ apply to you.


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## priestess (Dec 2, 2009)

INTJ = DATA or SPOCK Star Trek This is the direct and to the point response of an INTJ.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Hmmm I've never really thought about the way I approach problems so in depth, but I think I am more about thinking of the possibilities, implications and results of planned actions, and making up various plans in my head so I'd say the first one? 

It's hard for me to not choose the option featuring the "here and now" because I do like to live in the present, but when I start a project I am more focused on the final piece and the result than what I'm actually doing at the moment, keeping in mind my final goal and what I want to achieve.

Does that sound right?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

And to priestess: I think, as you said, that I straddle the middle. I'm very flexible and adaptable (because I've had to be, no way around it). But I don't like leaving things without doing something or making a decision, and once I make a decision I stick by it (unless I get additional information that would make me re-evaluate the decision). So overall more of a J, with a little P? Haha.

See the thing is the descriptions for INTJ state that they are very logical and listening to facts and reason and similar such things and that is very much myself, but I am still quite adept at social situations when I want to be (which is supposed to be a skill they do not have?).


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## priestess (Dec 2, 2009)

*Follow Up: S vs. N*

The S & N difference - Ns tend to be more abstract and intellectual. They like to ask what if questions. S like to deal with here and now - facts, data, information (great computer programmers). S often like history, trivia, reading world almanac and Ripley's Believe It or Not. You wouldn't find a S studying philosophy and probably not physics. That's not to say S is dumb. They're just not into the esoteric stuff.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Hmm alright well based on that difference I think I'm a little of both once again. Puzzled :/

Here is part of a description of INTJ that seems to be on target for me:

To outsiders, INTJs may appear to project an aura of "definiteness", of self-confidence. This self-confidence, sometimes mistaken for simple arrogance by the less decisive, is actually of a very specific rather than a general nature; its source lies in the specialized knowledge systems that most INTJs start building at an early age. When it comes to their own areas of expertise -- and INTJs can have several -- they will be able to tell you almost immediately whether or not they can help you, and if so, how. INTJs know what they know, and perhaps still more importantly, they know what they *don't* know. 
INTJs are perfectionists, with a seemingly endless capacity for improving upon anything that takes their interest. What prevents them from becoming chronically bogged down in this pursuit of perfection is the pragmatism so characteristic of the type: INTJs apply (often ruthlessly) the criterion "Does it *work*?" to everything from their own research efforts to the prevailing social norms. This in turn produces an unusual independence of mind, freeing the INTJ from the constraints of authority, convention, or sentiment for its own sake. 
INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. Whatever system an INTJ happens to be working on is for them the equivalent of a moral cause to an INFJ; both perfectionism and disregard for authority may come into play, as INTJs can be unsparing of both themselves and the others on the project. Anyone considered to be "slacking," including superiors, will lose their respect -- and will generally be made aware of this; INTJs have also been known to take it upon themselves to implement critical decisions without consulting their supervisors or co-workers. On the other hand, they do tend to be scrupulous and even-handed about recognizing the individual contributions that have gone into a project, and have a gift for seizing opportunities which others might not even notice. 



But again, there are some traits that seem to be defining INTJ traits that don't seem to suit me.


So is everyone just not 100% their type, is it more of a guideline, or am I just in between too many things?


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## priestess (Dec 2, 2009)

Well, Taro. You are lucky you have fine social skills. Most INTJs don't or they have to learn them. I can understand that INTJ may not seem to fit you. My T & F are very close - so I could be INFJ technically - except I'm not really into peace and harmony (I wish I could say that I am). Still, I graviate towards Fs and INTJs can get on my nerves when they get arrogant. Good luck with your search.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Thank you for your help priestess. I wish you luck too


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## priestess (Dec 2, 2009)

I'd say that you are a hybrid. Although I don't think the Myers-Briggs people would agree. Realistically though, people cannot fit into one of sixteen boxes. Take what you want, leave what you don't. Based on what you quoted (the prefectionist stuff, the decisiveness, etc.) yeah you sound like an INTJ. Not common among women. We are socialized differently. Maybe that's why you are better socially than most. And we all adapt to our environments out of necessity and desire. I think people are much more adaptable and mallable than is often believed. I don't know if you have check out the Enneagram personality system. You might find that interesting and insightful. If you are really INTJ, you should probably type as a Type 1 or Type 5.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Right, and that's what I thought as well, that it must be difficult to really place everyone into the limited 16 different types.

I actually took a quick enneagram test and it told me I was a type 7. Perhaps I'll try to take a more detailed one? Though I don't really understand what that is either, or what the link would be to the Myers-Briggs.

And I agree a lot of knowledge and expertise comes from necessity. I can't say whether I would have been more or less social if I hadn't been thrown into large groups of people and forced to move around and make new friends for most of my life.

Despite being very logical and straight-forward I think I have a very kind nature, so even though I may think and come up with decisions without consulting emotions, when I socialize I am very emotional and attuned to the group. For example if someone asks me to crit a piece of work they've done, I will look at it and acknowledge if it's honestly poor quality, but I'll tell them exactly that in a nice way. So I won't spare them, but I'll do it kindly. If that makes sense.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

Firstly, don't go on anything that connects the MBTI types and Enneagram - there are certain tendencies, but nothing concrete. It's not good to just decide you can't be an Enneagram type because your MBTI type might not fit the traditional image of such. You could very well be a type Seven, but it's always good to look into the Enneagram itself regardless.

At the risk of repeating anything, have you considered INFJ? I've only perused the thread, but even your last post tells me you could use Fe very well. The important thing to note is that Fe is a rational function, and most INFJs do see themselves as logical, as we INTJs do. They're just more attuned to social situations and subjective means over objective means, but this in no way makes the function less logical.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I took a look at INFJ, and that could be me. There are certainly some characteristics in one description that suit me. But the overall altruism of them I am not entirely convinced about. I would say these elements are the ones that fit:

Accurately suspicious about others' motives, INFJs are not easily led. These are the people that you can rarely fool any of the time. Though affable and sympathetic to most, INFJs are selective about their friends. Such a friendship is a symbiotic bond that transcends mere words. INFJs have a knack for fluency in language and facility in communication. In addition, nonverbal sensitivity enables the INFJ to know and be known by others intimately. 



But then, couldn't that fit a lot of different types of people?


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

True, but you have to consider the system itself - those traits are the INFJ type's alone, although it manifests in different ways in other types. Have you thought to take a functional analysis test?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

What is a functional analysis test? I would like to give it a try.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

If you head over to the Personality Resources sub-forum (if you'll pardon my rudeness by not linking), the first stickied topic has two tests that you can take that measure your use of the functions. I recommend the second, as it is less easy to manipulate. Essentially, the tests aim not to score you based on preferences on a scale (such as with the Extroversion vs. Introversion), but by what functions you use most and which you use least, making it very reliable concerning typing yourself.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Thank you, I shall head over and give it a try


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

Please do post your results once you finish; I think it will be better to have multiple opinions in interpreting them.


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## More Tea (Aug 19, 2009)

Taro said:


> Despite being very logical and straight-forward I think I have a very kind nature, so even though I may think and come up with decisions without consulting emotions, when I socialize I am very emotional and attuned to the group. For example if someone asks me to crit a piece of work they've done, I will look at it and acknowledge if it's honestly poor quality, but I'll tell them exactly that in a nice way. So I won't spare them, but I'll do it kindly. If that makes sense.


I'm the same way and am a confirmed INTJ. We've had this discussion in other threads, but the general INTJ descriptions are a bit off, IMO--and other folks' opinions too, apparently. One of the big ways they are off is that they assume that an person who is as intelligent and focused as an INTJ can't be socially adept. Pure, unadulterated codswallop. Maybe there's a gender thing going on too--I can't speak to that, especially since I don't know a lot of male INTJs. But I do know an INTJ can have very good people skills and even be empathic and sensitive. It's just that, yes, we also tend to drag logic and/or impersonal measures into discussions where it's even remotely appropriate to do so. Some INTJs also do so where it's *not* remotely appropriate, hence the popular--if misbased--online descriptions.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm still feeling puzzled. I took both tests, so I've actually taken 4 different tests in total, all with a different result.
I got INTJ, ISTP, ISFP and ESTP. Some traits fit and some don't.

I think I'm fairly confident that I'm I. I don't think I'm as carefree or competitive as ISFP or ESTP. Upon reading through the descriptions I would say that INFP suits me better than either of those. So which is it?

I'm feeling confused and maybe I should just accept that nothing can really suit anyone perfectly.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

You can fit a type - you just have to study the system more.

If you did the functional analysis test, do you remember the order of functions you used most, from top to bottom? That's important.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I didn't save the results, so I took it again and got yet another: ESTJ.

*Cognitive Process**Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)*extraverted Sensing (Se) *************************** (27.5)
average useintroverted Sensing (Si) ******************************** (32.1)
good useextraverted Intuiting (Ne) *************************** (27.1)
average useintroverted Intuiting (Ni) ****************** (18.2)
limited useextraverted Thinking (Te) *********************************************** (47.7)
excellent useintroverted Thinking (Ti) ******************************** (32.3)
good useextraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************** (17.6)
limited useintroverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************* (37.3)
excellent use
ESTJ's description doesn't suit me at all.

Does that help any?


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

It doesn't appear that you would be an ESTJ; I think it's safe to rule out INTJ or INFJ, though. Fe and Ni are your lowest functions, which, even if the test were inaccurate, surely disproves INTJ. Have you considered ISTJ?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I considered ISTJ, but that description seems too cold and dedicated to duty to suit me. I do follow rules and guidelines but I'm not that strict about anything really.

I took another one and here are new results:










Even that seems a little too obsessed with things being correct. :/ I think I'm going to give up XD


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

Well, ISTJ isn't about mindlessly fulfilling duties - it's about the motivation. Why do you follow rules and guidelines, besides the obvious consequences?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I follow rules and guidelines only so long as I believe they are correct and the best path to follow. I would never follow a rule for the sake of merely following it.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

It does sound very much like an INTJ response, but have you considered any of the xSxP types?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I have looked at ESTP, which is too competitive and just overall not really matching me. I looked at ISTP but I don't think I'm as territorial and inflexible. I have strong convictions but those are reached through research and knowledge and I am willing to change my opinion or position if adequate evidence presents itself that would convince me to do so. ESFP is most definitely nothing like myself. I would say the closest of the four would be ISFP, but I'm less spontaneous and going with gut feelings than that. Not to say that I don't have some sense of spontaneity and I'm not glued to schedules and tables and plans, but I sometimes feel things will fall apart if there isn't some structure, at least a basic structure that can be changed or molded to fit the appropriate situation.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

That could be accounted for Si over being J, really. Are there any types you haven't explored yet?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I've been looking at them individually so I haven't sat down and looked through all of them.

And something just occurred to me. Perhaps my confusion stems from being immersed in an INTJ family? I was raised to think very logically and structurally, and to ignore or discount emotions a lot of the time (even though as a child I think I was more emotional, more spontaneous and whimsical).

Can a type be learned?

And what does it mean, Si being over J?

Thank you for all your help by the way Grey


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

Well, J is stereotypically defined as desiring structure. Si is a function called upon when we compare things in the past to now (i.e., learning not to touch something hot because it burned you), and it usually desires structure as well. You do have high Si as listed by your test, but it seems to be overruled by Te.

That's perfectly possible, and that could be why you scored so high on Te - Te is also about structure, just as Si is, but it's more defined by efficiency. A type can't be learned, but functions can, which may masquerade your true type.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Hmm then that makes it tricky.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

It is, and that's the difficulty of accurately typing. I would say you seem to use Si, but I wouldn't truly know. Are you more comfortable with the most efficient way, or the most known way?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Most efficient definitely.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

That would be very 'Te' behavior, then. If you lead with Te, then, you need to supplement with Si or Ni - that would make you ESTJ or ENTJ.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

So that would definitely make me an extrovert? From the individual definition of the concept I don't think if fits, but then I don't really understand the relationships between the different parts.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

By definition, yes. Is there any reason that would make you think you're an introvert over an extrovert?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Well the fact that I don't get along with most people and even though I can easily talk if I want to in social situations (small talk that is) I don't really get to know many, I have a very small number of people I trust and actually want to talk to. I prefer small, intimate gatherings to big, loud or too active parties. I'm very private and even when chatting casually I don't provide much actual information about myself, at least nothing that isn't outwardly discernible, or harmless.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

I don't think those things are indicators of introversion versus extroversion, actually. Extroverts don't always prefer loud parties, and introverts don't hide away all the time, either. Extroverts, especially those of the xxTJ or xNTx variety, seem to just prefer people on principle. It's also about energy - do you gain or lose energy from contact?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Hmm I see. Well I'd say I gain energy from contact that I value. Lose energy from contact that I don't, so small talk or chatting or daily interactions from people that I am not close to.

For ESTJ and ENTJ, those both sound like they involve a lot of people organization? I think I work fairly well in a group but I wouldn't say I want to be in a position where I am the main organizer all of the time. I like to have my task, and perform such on my own independently, and relay that. I like to see a job through from beginning to end completely by myself if possible.


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

Well, you seem to be very 'strongly' INTJ, despite your functions. You may just have tricked the test.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Maybe I'm overthinking everything too much :/ Well I shall leave it at that then. Thank you very much for your help.


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## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

I only scanned the posts in your thread Taro, but if you test quite a bit then at some point you become immune and will continue to mark answers based on your preconceived notion. Do you know your temperament preference? That should allow you to distinguish whether you are INTJ or INFJ. Like type, we do use all four temperaments, but have one that we are most comfortable with. I stopped using test some time ago and found that knowing your temperament then you interaction style gives you instant type. The good thing is that it takes some self analysis to determine your interaction style, so once you find it, you will know your best fit type.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

Well then the question becomes how do you define your temperament, from what types?

Perhaps a description of myself is in order.

I feel like I can get by in social situations without standing out as awkward but I far prefer a small group of people I esteem and who I can rely on to be logical. I am very imaginative and like to contemplate a lot of ideas, I love to learn, to figure things out, to dream up stories and ideas and possibilities, but I'm not really a head in the clouds person. I may think on these things a lot but I'm very very grounded in reality, to the point where if I meet someone too whimsical or carefree and exploring and believing in untangible things it frustrates me.
I feel like I discovered myself quite early on, in terms of my morals, who I am and the parameters around which I choose to live, and I stick to them, as well as logic allows, meaning if there is proof that one of my ways of working or living just doesn't make sense then I will change. But I need that proof and reasoning to work through why I would change.
I am very in control of my emotions, and due to various things in my life have actually to a certain degree suppressed them below the surface. It's as though I have them but they are behind a glass wall, so I can look at them and say "I feel this way" but I don't entirely feel it. Only in rare or extreme circumstances do they seem to come to the forefront.
In social interactions I can be quiet because I like to listen and study the people around me to form opinions on them and get to know them. I can get by with small talk though I don't like to do it, and there are a lot of social conventions or ways of thinking and acting that I feel I understand, but I don't like and thus avoid doing them. I don't generally give opinions unless I feel that I can have a decent conversation about them, that they will be received by people who are logical and willing to discuss or debate such issues. I will treat people nicely, I have trouble sometimes with being harsh and with confrontation, but I don't like to lie or sugarcoat things.
I am very slow to anger, perhaps because it is difficult to penetrate my emotions, and because anger for the most part is quite a hot headed and emotional reaction, and I don't often feel too attached or too affected by what people say. In part because if they say something harsh that is true, I accept it and will strive to improve. If they say something harsh that is untrue, for example simply to wound, I will not pay attention.

Is that too in depth? Does that help?


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

It's not necessarily too in-depth, but I do think your description rules out 'S', but only in a temperament sense. On the one hand, the entire thing strikes as NF overall, but at the same time, there are touches of what would be defined as NT that can be seen. Have you read descriptions of the temperaments alone?


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I have not. I am exploring the forum at the moment, where would I find those?


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## Grey (Oct 10, 2009)

I'm afraid the forum at the moment does not have any specific topics addressing the temperament divide, but it's easy to find over the internet - at the same time, you might think to just read the topics between temperaments to get a good idea of how these things apply in practice.


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## Taro (Dec 2, 2009)

I will see what I can find, thank you


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