# The old Fi slander attack. Classic.



## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Basically, whenever someone doesn't agree with someone else or feels threatened in some way, they will "accuse" them of being an Fi user.

I just think it's amusing more than anything, and a complete ad hominem wayyy out of left field. 
But, yes, obviously it's unfortunate that they use it as such, when in actuality, it's just one of the beautiful functions in the rainbow of typology.


Though I have an _inkling _as to where this Fi demonizing originates, I'd like to hear from you people.


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## Le9acyMuse (Mar 12, 2010)

Everyone's good for accusing others as part of what causes their grievances. As you probably realize in certain communities or cultures scapegoats are used to give a sense of togetherness. There are several communities on this site that value superior judgments, be they conventional, non-conformist, ethnic, scientific or informal.

I guess Fi is seen as the harmless, self-righteous ignoramus; an easy target. I think it's because of putting two misinformed concepts of human qualities together. Feeling is the irrational-softie preference (everyone is irrational, everyone technically has a conscience) and Introversion is the over-analyzing leaning ("common sense" is a self-entitlement to insult someone's intelligence, so that thinking differently is discouraged). This makes more sense than there being a consensus on what Fi is like, and people knowing what the hell they're talking about half the time when making bold accusations. A lot of what goes on here is guess work and popularity.


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## periwinklepromise (Jan 26, 2015)

We see Fi as a double subjective, thus easier to attack as being *too subjective*, *irrational*, blah blah blah. Lots of people try to act like introverted feeling is for babies. 

Accusing a person of being an Fi-user is another way of saying "I disagree with you, so you must be ignorant or naive."


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

It's because when immature, stressed or unhealthy, Fi is kind of pompous, vain, self serving...I believe the words Jung actually used were petty and meglonaniacal. 

The thing is, though, is that Ti users are more threatened by Fi than anyone. Fi makes rational but subjective value judgments and can be immovable, while unhealthy or imbalanced amounts of Ti is actually fairly value-less, and may speculate excessively on xyz having no intrinsic value or worth, which is going to probably make an Fi dom really annoyed, and drama may ensue (mostly on the internet, Ji doms aren't as overbearing openly irl, and it may be only their intimate friends who realize how stubborn and immovable Ji is when it gets its mind up to something, whether that's with Si pedantry in the tertiary, or Ni projections and conspiracy) ..I don't think it's impossible for TP and FP types to be friends or get along other wise in work or family, but the relationship doubtlessly becomes exceptionally effortful when the Ti type and Fi types have a deep conversation or a more intimate relationship. This is in part due to spikes of Fe inferior in the Ti dom trying to "trap" the Fi with what may be baseless claims of selfishness or lack of conformity to whatever Fe they scrape by with, and the Fi type angrily trying to cage the Ti type into elements of externally measurable rationality with inferior Te, or even coming across as genuinely harsh and goose steppy.

Ti types can say things they may not realize that Fi interprets as insensitive or cold, and like wise the Fi type may go around making value judgments that the Ti type becomes frustrated with because they try to reason it out with Ti instead. ..what works though is when they agree on something, albeit likely for different reasons, so like the Fi type can feel strongly about something and the Ti type rationalizes why, then in this instance they can actually praise and congratulate each other on being able to approach one problem with different strength. 

Fe types on the other hand probably complain a lot less, only becoming annoyed with Fi when it starts to pose an inconvenience, or when the Fi type feels Fe is starting to encroach too much or too closely.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

periwinklepromise said:


> We see Fi as a double subjective, thus easier to attack as being *too subjective*, *irrational*, blah blah blah. Lots of people try to act like introverted feeling is for babies.
> 
> Accusing a person of being an Fi-user is another way of saying "I disagree with you, so you must be ignorant or naive."


Fi is critical to dismantling ethical group think, and pondering deeper questions of aesthetics and morality, it's actually a rational function...it's just not "cool" in the post modern Western world to be overly sensitive or have intense personal values, though the more IxTJ less developed "individual achiever" or "captain of one's own ship" tends to be praised by libertarians, Randroids, and even to a certain extent by Fi doms themselves of other persuasions, though Fi doms see the problem if it's excessively selfish in nature, because Fi is not about being a baby or being selfish.

Any type can be selfish, for sure, and I also think any type could be a big baby in one way or another.


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## NurseCat (Jan 20, 2015)

People who know about MBTI like to assign functions and types to people they dislike. People dislike Fi users because they're selfish and immature when unhealthy. 


People who argue about this shit are losers.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

To be fair, I've seen people do the same with Fe, in a different way (see: "Hitler was an INFJ," "Fe is the cult leader function," "Fe users don't think for themselves," etc.). But yes... I've seen the "Fi slander attack" and it's pretty stupid. It's basically like saying, "You have an opinion, therefore you're stupid." 

Fi users tend to be chock full of impassioned opinions if you hit the triggers and I think Ti-doms (particularly the younger ones) tend to see opinions as a personal affront of sorts. Like an opinion is a joke at best and a crime at worst.


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## Tezcatlipoca (Jun 6, 2014)

Oh, I thought this was about Fi users accusing othera of x,y, z becauae it is easier rather than for them to change their behavior


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Thalassa said:


> Fi is critical to dismantling ethical group think, and pondering deeper questions of aesthetics and morality, it's actually a rational function...it's just not "cool" in the post modern Western world to be overly sensitive or have intense personal values,


I think that maybe part of the problem is that Fi types seem sensitive, but they are in reality quite insensitive to other's attempts to influence them, so there is a misperception and confusion that results, and the easy answer is to blame the Fi person. And since Fe (as it's usually Fe types) is an extraverting function, which, by its very nature is _not_ introspective, and avoids introspection (drawn to the object, repulsed by the subject), such blaming is the natural result, because introspection would be painful and unthinkable. In fact, I'll be honest. I'm always surprised when an Fe person takes this sort of thing personally. Their self-defensiveness is way beyond what the situation would suggest--but I think it's that fear of introversion/introspection that Fi draws into the open that frightens Fe types. And the fact that Fi is not doing this consciously or directly (but indirectly via other functions), simply adds to the confusion of the Fe type, which ends up projecting their own Fe perspective or values on the Fi type's actions. 

One thing I am frequently accused of is trying to force my will or opinion on others--but that couldn't be further from the truth. Nine times out of ten, these accusations come out of thin air to me. I had no intent of attempting any such thing on any one. Other times, such an accusation comes after _they_ have attempted to enforce their will on me, and I have resisted. One thing I hate? I hate it when someone says something value-wise, and then asks me for affirmation: "Isn't that right?" or "Am I right?" Don't ask me to affirm you. If you do, sooner or later, I'll finally have had enough, and I'll tell you what I think. But then, these people get upset at me like I'm the one to blame! But they were the whole time trying to get me to agree with them, but when I disagree, they blow up as if I was trying to get them to agree with me? I don't understand such people... Actually, now I think about it, Te types are also prone to this sort of behavior--but they don't react in the same way when I eventually and inevitably disagree. They tend to try to convince me of their correctness, and don't usually just lose their cool. That belongs to the Fe types. ;-) My perspective is that Te and Fe types somehow just need people to agree with them--regardless of whether the other agrees or not. I don't know why, and I don't understand such thinking. I would rather someone disagree with me than agree. I tend to not say something unless I know it is controversial and I need/want some sort of foil to test my thinking against. I need to prove my thinking to myself, and only then will I talk, and I do NOT want sapid and thoughtless affirmation. I want someone to 1. listen to what I'm actually saying and 2. give me a genuine challenge to what I actually said, not what they wanted to hear me say. 

Here's the kicker, though. I know I'm bad at expressing my thoughts, and I'm not articulate, so I understand if someone doesn't understand me right away, and am willing to go two or three rounds to get my point across, but most people aren't that patient, and they don't listen anyway, so most of the time, all I get back are false accusations, based on misunderstandings of what I'm trying to say. Needless to say, I don't share a lot with a lot of people--it's just not worth it to me... I try a bit more online, because I presume that someone can actually read and reread what i write--it's all there, from start to finish--so they should be able to work out my point--and since I tend to do that for others, I sort of expect the same in return... but experience has taught me otherwise. ;-) But still, hope reigns eternal, and I keep posting... 

Hope you enjoy this Fi perspective of this--but honestly, I don't really notice this "Fi-blaming" or slander attacks much. It mostly happens on Fi vs. Fe threads, but there, it's bound to happen, and I won't be surprised to see it happen on this thread, in fact. ;-)


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

ferroequinologist said:


> I think that maybe part of the problem is that Fi types seem sensitive, but they are in reality quite insensitive to other's attempts to influence them, so there is a misperception and confusion that results, and the easy answer is to blame the Fi person. And since Fe (as it's usually Fe types) is an extraverting function, which, by its very nature is _not_ introspective, and avoids introspection (drawn to the object, repulsed by the subject), such blaming is the natural result, because introspection would be painful and unthinkable. In fact, I'll be honest. I'm always surprised when an Fe person takes this sort of thing personally. Their self-defensiveness is way beyond what the situation would suggest--but I think it's that fear of introversion/introspection that Fi draws into the open that frightens Fe types. And the fact that Fi is not doing this consciously or directly (but indirectly via other functions), simply adds to the confusion of the Fe type, which ends up projecting their own Fe perspective or values on the Fi type's actions.
> 
> One thing I am frequently accused of is trying to force my will or opinion on others--but that couldn't be further from the truth. Nine times out of ten, these accusations come out of thin air to me. I had no intent of attempting any such thing on any one. Other times, such an accusation comes after _they_ have attempted to enforce their will on me, and I have resisted. One thing I hate? I hate it when someone says something value-wise, and then asks me for affirmation: "Isn't that right?" or "Am I right?" Don't ask me to affirm you. If you do, sooner or later, I'll finally have had enough, and I'll tell you what I think. But then, these people get upset at me like I'm the one to blame! But they were the whole time trying to get me to agree with them, but when I disagree, they blow up as if I was trying to get them to agree with me? I don't understand such people... Actually, now I think about it, Te types are also prone to this sort of behavior--but they don't react in the same way when I eventually and inevitably disagree. They tend to try to convince me of their correctness, and don't usually just lose their cool. That belongs to the Fe types. ;-) My perspective is that Te and Fe types somehow just need people to agree with them--regardless of whether the other agrees or not. I don't know why, and I don't understand such thinking. I would rather someone disagree with me than agree. I tend to not say something unless I know it is controversial and I need/want some sort of foil to test my thinking against. I need to prove my thinking to myself, and only then will I talk, and I do NOT want sapid and thoughtless affirmation. I want someone to 1. listen to what I'm actually saying and 2. give me a genuine challenge to what I actually said, not what they wanted to hear me say.
> 
> ...


Beautiful post, very insightful, thank you. It is strange to me when people get frightened by me, because no one in my childhood ever did, I grew up with two STJ and my mother is an ESFP, the only person in my family ever implying I was insensitive or too much was my ESFJ sister, who my mom also complained about "nagging" her. Irl other Fi types can actually find me sweet or inoffensive unless provoked, it's actually Fe types that look at me with shock that I was so intense about an opinion, because when it comes down to something serious, I will fucking set fire to your house (metaphorically) ...I actually find the internet to be a much worse landmine of conflict, but I find the opportunity to shoot my opinions up against others irresistible. In fact some days I feel I need I have to rub this up against someone who will not affect my life, or I will go mad. 

Cats are awesome though. They say little and go their own way, and 24/7 basis that's what I prefer in a living creature.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I Hate Therapists said:


> People who know about MBTI like to assign functions and types to people they dislike. People dislike Fi users because they're selfish and immature when unhealthy.
> 
> 
> People who argue about this shit are losers.


I really wish you would go back to nurse cat, it was so funny with your name.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

LostFavor said:


> To be fair, I've seen people do the same with Fe, in a different way (see: "Hitler was an INFJ," "Fe is the cult leader function," "Fe users don't think for themselves," etc.). But yes... I've seen the "Fi slander attack" and it's pretty stupid. It's basically like saying, "You have an opinion, therefore you're stupid."
> 
> Fi users tend to be chock full of impassioned opinions if you hit the triggers and I think Ti-doms (particularly the younger ones) tend to see opinions as a personal affront of sorts. Like an opinion is a joke at best and a crime at worst.


Yes and this is why Fi types want to wrap Ti types in plastic, being called a joke is mean and insulting, and then acting like it's a crime is mirroring us, but on an opposite playing field, which can get ugly. 

Yes Fe can get all kinds of shit too, like my naggy ESFJ sister in a family that couldn't give a shit, except that she provides things like doing the taxes and trying to keep the family together, but in my ESFP mothers mind me and ESFJ are her equally "normal" daughters, because she can talk to us, and frankly in her mind that makes us normal, daughters who don't call her at 7 am or shoot heroin, who listen to her talk, you'd think she has low standards. ..except she has two other daughters. My mom actually loves F doms.

The point of my personal story being different types are difficult for different sorts of people. I find having an Fi dom roommate ideal, like the best thing since sliced bread, and another type might find them creepy, anti social, lazy, something. I think they're FANTASTIC. 

ETC.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

Fi users are no more or less selfish than any other type, even the immature ones. 

Fi appears selfish from the perspective of Fe because Fe users don't readily comprehend Fi reasoning. 

Fi appears irrational from the perspectives of T types, because again, Ti & Te can't readily comprehend Fi reasoning. 

It applies across all the functions an types, nobody can see beyond their own perspective. Therefore, anything outside of their perspective is labelled as selfish/irrational/emotional/stupid/inconsiderate, etc.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Cause some people have Fi in the shadow and hence see it as evil.
Then they link up whatever trait you have to this.
It is more than likely an inability to understand the system.
Anyone who truely understands this won't attack it, but try to come to peace with their shadow.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

This implies that it's someone with Fe that says this. That is not always true.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Neverontime said:


> Fi users are no more or less selfish than any other type, even the immature ones.
> 
> Fi appears selfish from the perspective of Fe because Fe users don't readily comprehend Fi reasoning.
> 
> ...


It's usually not Fi types who I think are selfish, in fact I admire many of them for speaking their mind, but ITJ, they are like me me me, glorious me, and are not joking. Fi doms usually have at least one other person to speak for, they only differ from Fe in how personal and specific. The reason Fi is not selfish is because it speaks for an underlying humanity, or a kind of unheard "us" like stray cats or prostitutes, people not acceptable by others in "society"...


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Some uncaring Ti/Te probably couldn't cope with your feelings :tongue: /sarcasm /jk all that stuff . 

It also doesn't help that some Fi users (me) tend to have a love/hate relationship with their Fi.


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## NurseCat (Jan 20, 2015)

Thalassa said:


> I really wish you would go back to nurse cat, it was so funny with your name.


I was unsure about the change too, I lied awake in bed last night for a few minutes and thought maybe I should swap my avatar and signature. These things take a lot of cafeful consideration.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

Thalassa said:


> It's usually not Fi types who I think are selfish, in fact I admire many of them for speaking their mind, but ITJ, they are like me me me, glorious me, and are not joking. Fi doms usually have at least one other person to speak for, they only differ from Fe in how personal and specific. The reason Fi is not selfish is because it speaks for an underlying humanity, or a kind of unheard "us" like stray cats or prostitutes, people not acceptable by others in "society"...


Ahh, well that's likely true. Intjs Fi is unconscious, so when it manifests it drags up other unconscious content, including their personal emotions and an immature 'me, me, me attitude'. Fi in the dominant position isn't mixed up with personal emotions, it's separated from them. So IxFPs Fi function is Fi operating in its most rational and objective form.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

I hear this a lot from people and perhaps that should tell something but no, they are just confusing the concepts. We communicate others using our Ne and usually Fi is reserved and not exposed, I mean it takes a lot for someone to face our Fi so I find it ridiculous when people judge me over my Fi based on some descriptions they read on the interwebz ) I get offended that they don't even have a tangible, solid reason ( and yes that is when you begin to tickle my Fi). I just personally am a stubborn person and I am kind of domineering, I am unapologetic (as I don't impose my actions on others really I don't see a problem). It is true that I usually prefer to do things, join gatherings that I like and will pass on many others. I am outspoken. But none of these are in anyway related to my Fi. I am easygoing and I don't sweat the small stuff but it is kind of difficult to lead me when I am actively involving in things and that somehow gives the people the reason to label me as negative connotations of -Fi- I do care about people - a lot - but I don't want to control them nor I am a people pleaser and it has nothing to do with my Fi really, you can be everything I oppose to in a person and still be a good friend. Fi is just so personal, you have to get really close to offend it, it is not like Ti either, I more than often apply Te with logical matters. It is just funny that people assume they communicate with my Fi, they don't.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

The users of the attack probably Hate Moral Clarity.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

Because Fi is the victim function that needs to be rallied around in threads like this. And then people like me are made the bad guy by questioning this groupthink. 

And to the Fi user who said that people find him controlling, but he has no clue he is doing it. Exactly. These people didn't just invent that notion out of thin air. It doesn't matter what your intentions are. If people think you are doing it, and you are the only one not noticing it, well... that's Fi. lol


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't like how Fi users identify with their feelings as if they ARE their feelings as opposed to a person capable of feeling who can make rational choices despite how they feel. 

I don't like how Fi users take everything personal. aside from 2 or 3 here, most Fi users appear to do this exceedingly so. 

I don't like how I can be reactive but at least the wind will blow over. With an Fi user, their feelings get stuck. They're inflexible this way. For me, when I reflect back its intellectual and learning from the experience (emotions are over it), and I don't like how Fi users appear to be on some merry go round never separating their emotions enough to learn .. They struggle moving on in a way that's agitating.

I don't like how Te / Fi mix. At all. It (to me) appears narrow minded, sharp and blinded by ego. 

I don't like how they feel sorry for people not because of any other reason than it makes them feel like they're a better person by feeling for another (it makes them susceptible to the common pitfall of coddling and enabling and it makes me sick and angry, as that doesn't help anyone). 

You asked what "you people" think ... 

Can you take the feedback objectively or are you gonna be a case in point and personalize it?


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

Whoa... there's a lot of bad typology going on in this thread. 

INFPs are actually my favourite type (in the sense that most of my friends seem to fall into that type, and I find INFPs generally very easy to connect with). I don't think that when people call others out on being IFP they are necessarily being derogatory - though sadly I'm sure many are, I think most of the time IFPs are very easy to spot because they tend to have giveaway signals that show what non-FP types will see as a very odd view of the world. But that isn't a "bad" thing - INTPs like myself have a pretty odd way of looking at things too.

So I'd say that much of the time, saying someone is IFP is not an insult, or a reference to the possibility of someone being less intelligent, but an appeal to the IFP to try to switch off their normal way of thinking for a while, and try to see things in a more impartial way.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Because Fi is the victim function that needs to be rallied around in threads like this. And then people like me are made the bad guy by questioning this groupthink.
> 
> And to the Fi user who said that people find him controlling, but he has no clue he is doing it. Exactly. These people didn't just invent that notion out of thin air. It doesn't matter what your intentions are. If people think you are doing it, and you are the only one not noticing it, well... that's Fi. lol


So, you admit to attempting to be controlling? Such as this post? 

And I'm curious how one can be "controlling" and be unaware that they are actually controlling... It's like "I'm not driving this car", while you are sitting behind the wheel, with your hands on the wheel, feet on the pedals, and the car's moving. It doesn't make sense. If one is controlling, then they have a desired outcome, and are pushing for it. What it seems to me is that rather than being controlling, the other is feeling controlled--but that would be projection, not control, so, the real person controlling is the one projecting, and feeling controlled when, in fact, the other person is _not_ controlling him... See? It sounds all confusing and messed up...


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> I don't like how Fi users identify with their feelings as if they ARE their feelings as opposed to a person capable of feeling who can make rational choices despite how they feel.
> 
> I don't like how Fi users take everything personal. aside from 2 or 3 here, most Fi users appear to do this exceedingly so.
> 
> ...


I objectively think that your observation or understanding of Fi isn't accurate. The lack of reasoning of your post quite conflicts the way you call Fi users not to take it personal


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

nichya said:


> I objectively think that your observation or understanding of Fi isn't accurate. The lack of reasoning of your post quite conflicts the way you call Fi users not to take it personal


Lack of reasoning? You asked my opinion. That's been my experience of Fi. What else do you want? Next time. Give me the script.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> The users of the attack probably Hate Moral Clarity.


The users of the attack probably hate *perceived black & white* "moral clarity" *when most cases are really varying shades of grey*.

(Fixed that for you!)


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Just because some Fi users have traits that make my skin crawl, it doesn't mean those traits define who that person is. In reality, a persons compatibility is much more than mbti. 

You might not want to care so much when people struggle dealing with Fi. That's not your problem. (See. It's shit like this that is irritating. Why do you care if Fi agitates me. That's my problem. Not yours. Maybe if you didn't care so much, I wouldn't mind so much. I'm entitled to my feelings even if they don't adhere to YOUR ideal).


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> Lack of reasoning? You asked my opinion. That's been my experience of Fi. What else do you want? Next time. Give me the script.


well when you say I don't like this and give some statement as if it is true, I naturally expect some reasoning because I honestly don't find your statements and observations very accurate. I am not writing to preach, Fi is often misunderstood and to me it feels like your observance of others might not be too close to the -Fi- 

and I think these are very ..erm..-subjective- conclusions written as if they are facts, such as - 

I don't like how they feel sorry for people not because of any other reason than it makes them feel like they're a better person by feeling for another - I mean what the hell lol

so all in all if I had your reasoning we could discuss but I feel like this is a subjective statement being imposed under covers of -opinion- tertiary Ti perhaps?


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

ningsta kitty said:


> I don't like how Fi users identify with their feelings as if they ARE their feelings as opposed to a person capable of feeling who can make rational choices despite how they feel.
> 
> I don't like how Fi users take everything personal. aside from 2 or 3 here, most Fi users appear to do this exceedingly so.
> 
> ...


Oooh they'll burn you for this...


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Rachel Wood said:


> Oooh they'll burn you for this...


:tongue:


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Rachel Wood said:


> Oooh they'll burn you for this...


Only for the lack of reasoning and clear misunderstanding. Not because we take it personal :3


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

nichya said:


> well when you say I don't like this and give some statement as if it is true, I naturally expect some reasoning because I honestly don't find your statements and observations very accurate. I am not writing to preach, Fi is often misunderstood and to me it feels like your observance of others might not be too close to the -Fi-
> 
> and I think these are very ..erm..-subjective- conclusions written as if they are facts, such as -
> 
> ...


I'm not debating you. You wanted to know why people hate on Fi. I'm telling you. I'm not giving reasons as its all encompassing in my experience. If this isn't for you to learn and take the feedback to entertain, what was the point in asking. I wouldn't have posted if I had to defend it. You asked. I answered. I don't feel the need to justify myself. I'm sorry you feel more is necessary than is reasonable for me to provide you.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

nichya said:


> Only for the lack of reasoning and clear misunderstanding. Not because we take it personal :3


I don't need a reason to justify my opinions based on my experience with Fi. Nor do you need to give me a reason than it bothering you. Sometimes things just are and that's okay. Not everyone is going to mesh with everyone.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

Rachel Wood said:


> The users of the attack probably hate *perceived black & white* "moral clarity" *when most cases are really varying shades of grey*.
> 
> (Fixed that for you!)


Of course, you can keep your cheating, your corruption, your manipulation, your drug buddy rings controlling workplaces and your twisted social darwinism because it's oh so gray. Just don't expect mercy from me when the end will come.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> I'm not debating you. You wanted to know why people hate on Fi. I'm telling you. I'm not giving reasons as its all encompassing in my experience. If this isn't for you to learn and take the feedback to entertain, what was the point in asking. I wouldn't have posted if I had to defend it. You asked. I answered. I don't feel the need to justify myself. I'm sorry you feel more is necessary than is reasonable for me to provide you.


well if you believe this to be accurate just because you feel "I don't like how they feel sorry for people not because of any other reason than it makes them feel like they're a better person by feeling for another". Ok then. But perhaps you could use this chance to see how -subjective- you are being when you are accusing us to be subjective. And you are saying it is okay to feel this way even when the external data is lacking and even though your understanding is very problematical and wrong and you say you don't need to justify yourself. Sounds too much like what you -think- Fi is that you hate on, no?


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

nichya said:


> well if you believe this to be accurate just because you feel "I don't like how they feel sorry for people not because of any other reason than it makes them feel like they're a better person by feeling for another". Ok then. But perhaps you could use this chance to see how -subjective- you are being when you are accusing us to be subjective. And you are saying it is okay to feel this way even when the external data is lacking and even though your understanding is very problematical and wrong and you say you don't need to justify yourself. Sounds too much like what you -think- Fi is that you hate on, no?



Dude. I'm a Ti user. It's subjective. Why should I explain my reasons. This right here is you giving me Te and Fi. GTFO with that. You asked. I said why. And now you're gonna go out of your way to show everyone an example of how irritating you can be? Take it. You asked why. I answered. Accept it. If you don't like it, go make a thread about Ti hate. Just dont expect us to give a shit. And THAT my friends ... Is the clash between Te/Ti and Fi/Fe 

seriously. What are you trying to prove? Do you think debating someone that they're wrong for hating you, is going to make them like you? Really ??? Lol! I don't think so ...


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

ferroequinologist said:


> So, you admit to attempting to be controlling? Such as this post?
> 
> And I'm curious how one can be "controlling" and be unaware that they are actually controlling... It's like "I'm not driving this car", while you are sitting behind the wheel, with your hands on the wheel, feet on the pedals, and the car's moving. It doesn't make sense. If one is controlling, then they have a desired outcome, and are pushing for it. What it seems to me is that rather than being controlling, the other is feeling controlled--but that would be projection, not control, so, the real person controlling is the one projecting, and feeling controlled when, in fact, the other person is _not_ controlling him... See? It sounds all confusing and messed up...


I am not being controlling, but I am obnoxious. I know I am obnoxious. And overbearing. And sometimes controlling. 

I see power in everything. Every interaction is some sort of power dynamic. Some idea is winning or losing. You are interfering with the will of another person. It is an obstruction. It doesn't matter how it got there; it is there, and it shouldn't be there. 

You are basically telling me that good intentions cannot lead to bad ends. You think because of one interior, unseen subjective mental process inside your head, you are ethically bulletproof. 

Fi is projection. It is projection process. It takes the content of the self, and puts it on others.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

nichya said:


> Only for the lack of reasoning and clear misunderstanding. Not because we take it personal :3


I agree that her post was far from an objective analysis of the faults of Fi, and even that it shows hints of misunderstanding Fi. But that's hardly her fault haha - Fi is a real mind-fuck function, and easily the most difficult to understand! Even most IFPs don't really understand it. And that's why we get threads like this.

Her post does give a good account of what many people seem to get annoyed about with IFPs - those objections to the IFP character tend to show up time and again (though they're certainly not exclusive to Fi!). Personally, the IFPs I know in real life have far more things I like about them than I dislike, so I'd say my personal experience suggests these "INFP faults" are much overstated. But again, that's just my observation and isn't really applicable to anybody else.

INFPs are certainly capable of being impartial and logical, it just isn't their go-to mode. Intelligence and reasoning abilities are unrelated to types.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> Dude. I'm a Ti user. It's subjective. Why should I explain my reasons. This right here is you giving me Te and Fi. GTFO with that. You asked. I said why. And now you're gonna go out of your way to show everyone an example of how irritating you can be? Take it. You asked why. I answered. Accept it. If you don't like it, go make a thread about Ti hate. Just dont expect us to give a shit. And THAT my friends ... Is the clash between Te/Ti and Fi/Fe
> 
> seriously. What are you trying to prove? Do you think debating someone that they're wrong for hating you, is going to make them like you? Really ??? Lol! I don't think so ...


wow, you just have so many apparently not accurate conclusions in your own bubble, I will just leave it there. I was just hoping that you could take a look in the mirror and realize all your own gibberish comes out of you and nothing else and shoots a parallel universe to real life and real people. Being a -tertiary- subjective logic user doesn't grant you the ultimate freedom of being a jerk but be my guest and stay in your bubble.


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

I've never seen this. I've seen a lot of unfair hatred towards Fi, but I don't think I've ever seen the kinds of accusations written about in the OP.
I have my issues with immature Fi, but I also have issues with immature Fe. But being a Fe user I just understand the dark side of Fe better. Personally, if we're going to hate on functions, I'd like to see Ni get taken down a few pegs.


Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Of course, you can keep your cheating, your corruption, your manipulation, your drug buddy rings controlling workplaces and your twisted social darwinism because it's oh so gray. Just don't expect mercy from me when the end will come.


You sound suspiciously like Batman. Something you aren't telling us?


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Rachel Wood said:


> I agree that her post was far from an objective analysis of the faults of Fi, and even that it shows hints of misunderstanding Fi. But that's hardly her fault haha - Fi is a real mind-fuck function, and easily the most difficult to understand! Even most IFPs don't really understand it. And that's why we get threads like this.
> 
> Her post does give a good account of what many people seem to get annoyed about with IFPs - those objections to the IFP character tend to show up time and again (though they're certainly not exclusive to Fi!). Personally, the IFPs I know in real life have far more things I like about them than I dislike, so I'd say my personal experience suggests these "INFP faults" are much overstated. But again, that's just my observation and isn't really applicable to anybody else.
> 
> INFPs are certainly capable of being impartial and logical, it just isn't their go-to mode. Intelligence and reasoning abilities are unrelated to types.


hints of misunderstanding?

I mean I can find hints in every sentence but this sounds like a 3 year old Fi-inferior coming to the conclusion on Fi " I don't like how they feel sorry for people not because of any other reason than it makes them feel like they're a better person by feeling for another "

But that is the thing. Indeed Fi is the most difficult to understand function, even Jung states that and that is okay but please don't come to me with statements like these. I mean if you create something in your mind and hate it there is really not much to do about it. It is like saying all INFJs are blonde because Fe makes you blonde and I hate blondes. I dunno, no offense blondes I like you well but trying real hard to make some gibberish statement here.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

nichya said:


> wow, you just have so many apparently not accurate conclusions in your own bubble, I will just leave it there. I was just hoping that you could take a look in the mirror and realize all your own gibberish comes out of you and nothing else and shoots a parallel universe to real life and real people. Being a -tertiary- subjective logic user doesn't grant you the ultimate freedom of being a jerk but be my guest and stay in your bubble.


Wow. Why are you fighting this. You are in your own bubble too. We all are. Stop pretending you're exempt from being human. The sheer fact of your inability to take it with grace has only made me more irritated and this is exactly what starts the Fi hate. I think it's a classic example as to why I prefer to stay away from little delicate flowers of Fi narcissism. I like jerks. Because jerks, Are honest with themselves. They don't pretend. And they're not full of shit. Which is probably why they're jerks. Most people like the bullshiy. For the feels to know. Bullshit feels good. But it's bullshit. I hardly think you'll get what I'm saying. You're already demonizing me even though you're the antagonist. Lol! Wtf.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Ha! Apparently the INTP was right. They busted out the flaming pitchforks! How ironic !! :tongue:


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Of course, you can keep your cheating, your corruption, your manipulation, your drug buddy rings controlling workplaces and your twisted social darwinism because it's oh so gray. Just don't expect mercy from me when the end will come.


But those things are there anyway, whether you want to believe in them or not. Ignoring them isn't going to anything. 

And who's to say those things are "bad" anyway? You're attempting to emotionally manipulate me right now!  It's just something people do.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

ningsta kitty said:


> Wow. Why are you fighting this. You are in your own bubble too. We all are. Stop pretending you're exempt from being human. The sheer fact of your inability to take it with grace has only made me more irritated and this is exactly what starts the Fi hate. I think it's a classic example as to why I prefer to stay away from little delicate flowers of Fi narcissism. I like jerks. Because jerks, Are honest with themselves. They don't pretend. And they're not full of shit. Which is probably why they're jerks. Most people like the bullshiy. For the feels to know. Bullshit feels good. But it's bullshit. I hardly think you'll get what I'm saying. You're already demonizing me even though you're the antagonist. Lol! Wtf.


wow, your every sentence bleeds -subjective- and unjustified hate and you talk about grace and play the victim -then- you think you are true to yourself? Bravo.


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

nichya said:


> wow, your every sentence bleeds -subjective- and unjustified hate and you talk about grace and play the victim -then- you think you are true to yourself? Bravo.


I'm surprised you managed to understand a word of that. That was without a doubt one of the most meandering soliloquies I've ever forced myself to read on here.
You're the antagonist? If I remember correctly, you aren't even the OP here.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

ningsta kitty said:


> Dude. I'm a Ti user. It's subjective. Why should I explain my reasons. This right here is you giving me Te and Fi. GTFO with that. You asked. I said why. And now you're gonna go out of your way to show everyone an example of how irritating you can be? Take it. You asked why. I answered. Accept it. If you don't like it, go make a thread about Ti hate. Just dont expect us to give a shit. And THAT my friends ... Is the clash between Te/Ti and Fi/Fe
> 
> seriously. What are you trying to prove? Do you think debating someone that they're wrong for hating you, is going to make them like you? Really ??? Lol! I don't think so ...


I don't know... I'm always perfectly happy to explain my reasoning. In fact others get bored long before I do. In fact, Ti users I know are much more willing to explain their reasons than Te users (who tend to "stick to the facts" more than explore/explain where the facts lead, in my experience).

But it's difficult to know what "reasoning" is required to just give personal opinions based on experience.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

ningsta kitty said:


> Ha! Apparently the INTP was right. They busted out the flaming pitchforks! How ironic !! :tongue:


There's nothing ironic about an INTP being right.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Rebelgoatalliance said:


> You're the antagonist? If I remember correctly, you aren't even the OP here.


Doesn't matter. Fi is always the antagonist


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

FearAndTrembling said:


> Because Fi is the victim function that needs to be rallied around in threads like this. And then people like me are made the bad guy by questioning this groupthink.
> 
> And to the Fi user who said that people find him controlling, but he has no clue he is doing it. Exactly. These people didn't just invent that notion out of thin air. It doesn't matter what your intentions are. If people think you are doing it, and you are the only one not noticing it, well... that's Fi. lol


Honestly, I was just thinking about your posts recently, and how get the impression that you are genuinely trying to understand the different functions, yourself, and also other types. Who am I to guess your intentions? IDK. But I've usually appreciated your posts for that reason. They seem genuine to me even though they are often sort of abrasive feeling, and I feel they make it easier to understand INFJ.

I also want to say that I've recently been thinking that perhaps inferior Te is important, as it is an unconscious function in Fi doms, but it is the external judging function...though that is neither here nor there right now and it's just a baby thought.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

ningsta kitty said:


> Wow. Why are you fighting this. You are in your own bubble too. We all are. Stop pretending you're exempt from being human. The sheer fact of your inability to take it with grace has only made me more irritated and this is exactly what starts the Fi hate. I think it's a classic example as to why I prefer to stay away from little delicate flowers of Fi narcissism. I like jerks. Because jerks, Are honest with themselves. They don't pretend. And they're not full of shit. Which is probably why they're jerks. Most people like the bullshiy. For the feels to know. Bullshit feels good. But it's bullshit. I hardly think you'll get what I'm saying. You're already demonizing me even though you're the antagonist. Lol! Wtf.


Are you quite sure you aren't an Fi type? Sounds quite Fi to me...


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Rachel Wood said:


> Are you quite sure you aren't an Fi type? Sounds quite Fi to me...


lol. My point but objection.

Sounds like what -you _think_ Fi to be-

K.Thx.Bye.


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

Rachel Wood said:


> Are you quite sure you aren't an Fi type? Sounds quite Fi to me...


I was just thinking this. The "I like jerks" bit with the emphasis on remaining true to yourself and honest with yourself regardless of how it effects other people sounds very Fi. The "Most people like the bullshitty. Bullshit feels good" in particular. As well as a few other things said in other posts. Not that Fe (especially Ni-Fe) absolutely cannot hold these views, but I would definitely associate most of this sentiments more towards Fi.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

nichya said:


> lol. My point but objection.
> 
> Sounds like what -you _think_ Fi to be-
> 
> K.Thx.Bye.


I don't see what your problem is. I've said already that INFPs are my favourite type, so you can't accuse me of being biased against Fi users. I'm simply saying that the post sounds more Fi-Te than Fe-Ti. Fe tends to be... well, more diplomatic and "proper" even when they're angry - it's the most interpersonally graceful function. That response didn't sound graceful to me!


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

Rebelgoatalliance said:


> I was just thinking this. The "I like jerks" bit with the emphasis on remaining true to yourself and honest with yourself regardless of how it effects other people sounds very Fi. The "Most people like the bullshitty. Bullshit feels good" in particular. As well as a few other things said in other posts. Not that Fe (especially Ni-Fe) absolutely cannot hold these views, but I would definitely associate most of this sentiments more towards Fi.


Exactly.

How funny would it be if it turned out she was an IFP ranting in a thread about what she finds so horrible about Fi?


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## Slagasauras (Jun 26, 2013)

I guess? I haven't seen that too much, but I find myself wondering if I'm horrible at debating with others because I'm so invested in my beliefs and values (I don't see this as Fi, when I think about this by the way). I try to compensate this by making sure I can at least try to define what is subjective and objective about my views, and how I can back up the objective.
In the long run though, I think Fe users still have their concrete ideas and opinions in and of their own, if we even delve into cognitive functions, aren't they more considered on the welfare of others, even on the individual and level of self? I don't know, I just work in an animal shelter's kitchen and laundry room all day .


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Rachel Wood said:


> I don't see what your problem is. I've said already that INFPs are my favourite type, so you can't accuse me of being biased against Fi users. I'm simply saying that the post sounds more Fi-Te than Fe-Ti. Fe tends to be... well, more diplomatic and "proper" even when they're angry - it's the most interpersonally graceful function. That response didn't sound graceful to me!


But I don't have a problem D: I was actually happy that someone sees the conflict! I was only disagreeing how you automatically relate it to Fi though because it is not -Fi- but yea I do think it is what -Fi- is thought of by many. I am not one bit angry by the way, just in awe to those post exchanges.


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

I have yet to experience these slander attacks outside threads like this. What usually happens are misunderstandings borne out by assumptions concerning intentions, motivations and values on both sides.

Normally I would suggest somewhat optimistically that Fe-users and Fi-users could treat threads like this as a learning experience and an opportunity to ask questions and really come to understand one another, but this is clearly asking too much.

No, it isn't my problem when a member expresses dislike, but it's nevertheless worth considering how much comments like that contribute to thread quality, how likely they are to snowball and how much they may represent a misunderstanding like the above. IMO, people who believe they have a good reason to malign a function simply have more learning to do about that function, bottom line. This applies to any function.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

ferroequinologist said:


> It's not that I am unconcerned with other people's emotions. I just expect them to be responsible for their own emotions, and not try to make me responsible. I offer what I give, emotional freedom. ;-) Unfortunately, it seems that most Fe-burdened people struggle with this concept. I will confess, this is something that has bugged and confused me my entire life. It was only after my discovery of the concept of cognitive functions and their interplay that these sorts of things began to fully take shape--that some people consider it their right to influence others' emotions, while some people consider a person's emotions their own prerogative, and not belonging to the "community". It's such a topsy-turvy perspective, that even today, I struggle with accepting it. I know it is, and it exists, and that there are people who are comfortable with doing this, but I can't be, and I don't like it when it happens to me...
> 
> I have two NFJ daughters. They have grown up with me, and have sort of instinctively learned from me that people have boundaries, but even with that knowledge, they sometimes push me too far. I have also learned that this is who they are. Actually, and this is something I picked up instinctively--probably from a bad example of a mother, but I saw with other parents too, this tendency to make kids feel guilty for making them unhappy or disappointing them, as a way to coerce better behavior out of their kids. I've seen this across cultures and classes--it's common. I felt that was wrong, so I've never allowed myself to consciously do that with my own children. I'm glad I have a rational wife who is with me on this. Yes, there have been times we both have failed, but those are few.... and where was I going with this--oh yeah. I've also attempted to _be_ that emotional stability for my own children. It's a two-part thing--not to make your children responsible for your emotions, but also to be that emotional stability for them. I've also not been 100% perfect with this either--I am more emotional than I would ever want to be, but as their father, I cannot let my emotions interfere with being their dad. I don't like the idea of my kids having to walk on egg shells around me (that's how I grew up). I wouldn't want that. Nobody's perfect, and that is probably my biggest failing as a father. But I make sure that they know that I love them 200% and they are 200% accepted as they are. No need to perform for my sake. I'll encourage them, be their cheerleader, even lecture them when they make a mistake (I think my boring, meaningless lectures are their greatest punishment, based on their reactions) ;-) but I won't belittle them, or set moving goalposts for them to try to reach. (another horrible thing parents do that I despise)
> 
> Can someone honestly say these aren't universal values? That these are bad values?


I have no idea where this stereotype of NFJs brainwashing people because they want to make you just like them, or into a totally different person for their own benefit, comes from. The ENFJs I know are arguably the most open-minded and "live and let live" people I've ever met - very far from the overly-judgemental people they are seen as. Maybe there are a few like that, but I've never met one (IFPs and INFJs seem much more often "judgemental" to me). A very misunderstood type.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

Shameless Nation said:


> Even the understanding of negative emotions or sadness can be misunderstood in Fi. The notion of romanticising sadness is real - there can be joy in melancholy, the exploration of emotion. Again, not that far from Ti playing in a collapsed house (not litterally), Fi can have a play with it's collapsed spirit.
> 
> ^^^^^ That is for the INFJs pissed off with Fi users not wanting improve their mental and emotional state. Dont push it. They might not want to climb out of the sadness. If the exproation is over and they need your insights and help, they can come themselves!
> 
> ...


That's an interesting post.


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## ferroequinologist (Jul 27, 2012)

Rachel Wood said:


> I actually enjoy emotional films, novels, music etc. I'm perfectly happy watching a romantic film, or a movie about someone dying from cancer. As long as it isn't cheesy.


Ha! You know, when writing the post, I included my wife as an INTP example, but removed it in the end, because I wasn't sure how other INTPs would react, but what you described is just like her! ;-)


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

ferroequinologist said:


> Ha! You know, when writing the post, I included my wife as an INTP example, but removed it in the end, because I wasn't sure how other INTPs would react, but what you described is just like her! ;-)


Well, what can I say - we must all be big softies at heart.


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## Slagasauras (Jun 26, 2013)

Chesire Tower said:


> You don't ever need to doubt your Enneagram type. XD


I still do lol.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

ningsta kitty said:


> I don't like how Fi users identify with their feelings as if they ARE their feelings as opposed to a person capable of feeling who can make rational choices despite how they feel.
> 
> I don't like how Fi users take everything personal. aside from 2 or 3 here, most Fi users appear to do this exceedingly so.
> 
> ...


While there's some merit to what you're saying about Fi being their feelings, as well as taking things personally, and your problem seems to be with Si or Se, as it's actually your Ni that's more inclined to "perspective taking" which is something ISFP can start to learn with age. Also, as far as only feeling sorry for people because they think that makes them a good person. ..what are you even talking about. Any type could do that for different reasons, and it's common in Enneagram 1. An ISFJ could feel sorry for people because they thought it was the correct Christian standard, or an INFP could through an ideal of perfect empathy, OR an ENFJ could because they concluded thinking of others is always the right choice, but actually some Fi users feel sorry for people just because it instinctively hurts their heart or because they identify with that person. 

And what one person thinks is good is entirely different from another. An FJ might think it's good to give me feedback and talk to me about my feelings, while an INFP might think it's simply my due to have my individual experience as long as it doesn't cross them, and an Se or Ne type, especially if a pain avoidant 7, might ignore emotional rants with distaste but easily forgive the tirade as if it never happened, which might make the ranter feel ignored or invalidated, but they're always forgiven carte
blanche, because the emotional rant is viewed as human but best ignored for their own avoiding problems or pain. 

So, you have points, but part of this may be too individual.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

ningsta kitty said:


> also, you're asking nice but you're still asking for me to justify my reasons. Fi needs to know that sometimes that a person has conclusions that don't make sense. That's okay. It shouldn't matter. We don't NEED to learn from every person on earth ...


Ti does this as well, it presses for reasons, but in their case rational reasons, especially NTP. This acceptance you seem to have or promote about people not needing reasons is you coming from a completely Perceiving perspective, or else you're on a rant (which you are appearing to be) and actually trying to assert an inferior Se tone of "things are what they are, man."


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Neverontime said:


> Fi users are no more or less selfish than any other type, even the immature ones.
> 
> Fi appears selfish from the perspective of Fe because Fe users don't readily comprehend Fi reasoning.
> 
> ...


Precisely. It is compounded by the tendency that we all have to resort to demeaning those that hold different opinions or values than we do, instead of openly considering their POV and discussing it in a mature manner.


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## Rachel Wood (Mar 25, 2015)

Thalassa said:


> Ti does this as well, it presses for reasons, but in their case rational reasons, especially NTP. This acceptance you seem to have or promote about people not needing reasons is you coming from a completely Perceiving perspective, or else you're on a rant (which you are appearing to be) and actually trying to assert an inferior Se tone of "things are what they are, man."


That's very true - NTPs need to know how and why you reach a conclusion (if we're going to have a conversation anyway), or we'll just frown and stare at you as if you're very strange. In fact posts like the one you're quoting always make me wince.


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## LostFavor (Aug 18, 2011)

ningsta kitty said:


> I don't like how Fi users identify with their feelings as if they ARE their feelings as opposed to a person capable of feeling who can make rational choices despite how they feel.
> 
> I don't like how Fi users take everything personal. aside from 2 or 3 here, most Fi users appear to do this exceedingly so.
> 
> ...


Seems you have personalized the feedback you got on this post. :/

The issue I take with what you're saying here is the same issue I would take with stuff like "I don't like how Fe users manipulate groups to gang up on people" or some such thing. It's not necessarily behavior that has anything to do with the function itself.

Any connection between the behavior and the function is speculation, as we often talk about in this subforum. When the connections made are positive, it's ok (imo) because at least the potential typism is benevolent. But when we get into negative connections between type and behavior, things get iffy fast. 

One false move and we're in rampant typism territory, dismissing entire aspects of behavior based on their perceived connection to a particular type. The dismissiveness is what's most problematic, I think; the tendency for people to go from "X is connected to Y type" to "I'm going to dismiss X and cease trying to understand it because I've identified it now."

I do this myself sometimes. And I can't say I've learned a thing from it, or benefited from closing myself off. All it does is put me at odds with people for questionable reasons.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

LostFavor said:


> Seems you have personalized the feedback you got on this post. :/
> 
> The issue I take with what you're saying here is the same issue I would take with stuff like "I don't like how Fe users manipulate groups to gang up on people" or some such thing. It's not necessarily behavior that has anything to do with the function itself.
> 
> ...



This again? I didn't personalize anything. I don't care about the feedback and everyone keeps throwing it in my face. I'm not changing my opinion and especially now! Wtf is this for? I replied to the OP. Someone crabbed about it. I retorted. And they replied. I reacted on the defensive. (Um hello. Look to my enneagram, it's not unheard of). And on and on and on and on you people bitch (OP referred to 'you people' so I'm using that language here. You people just keep bitching and moaning and nagging and bitching and moaning. On and on and on all covered with covert narcissistic holier than thou attitude. Wtf .. I don't care! But you don't stop. Just more and more and more and I don't understand why the fuck your like bickering. 

The Question was asked. Waaaaaa, why does Fi get hated on? 

I reply: because you guys are big babies. 

The back lash: on and on and on and on bitch bitch moan. 

Here is the wisdom from my dealings with Fi. Walk away! You don't like my opinion when you asked. you question my type, by - I don't even know how to describe it. by going on about how I have misperceptions of Fi. But, the very way you keep beating this dead horse, Trying to change my opinion (I guess), you're only solidifying my conclusion even more!! And if you're not trying to change my opinion what is it you are trying to do? Prove me wrong to make me feel bad? Because proving me wrong with not wanting me to change my mind / perception just means you just want me to know I'm wrong. What is this? The 10th grade in the girls locker room? Lay off. You are running in brick walls over and over again. You guys aren't doing what's working to change my mind. So you're apparently bullying, because you guys are personalizing my feedback , very clearly if this isn't about changing my mind. Do you follow this? Does this make sense to you? I posted and I'm so tired of the nagging that I'm not listening. This is WAY too much drama all for a post where I admitted I hate on Fi and gave my reasoning. No one liked my position. But it's mine. So wtf is the issue people? I'm exhausted playing on the defensive. Wtf. Stop it. This is ridiculous. So I don't like Fi. I'm entitled to not be perfect. Because for christs sake, having the patience for Fi ?! Seriously? If this was a room and I had this convo in person I think I would have gouged my eyes out.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Now I see why INFJs are most prone to have psychosis.











am I being annoying yet, even though even this is backed by science D: I just can't make up subjective stuff and act like they are facts.


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## BenevolentBitterBleeding (Mar 16, 2015)

Maybe I'm in a minority but I think all this function vs. function thinking is really limiting.

Aren't we all humans and don't we all - mostly - function the same? Sure we each have potential and preferences for what order or the degree of what is developed but to say that my function stack has Fe come first and yet Fi _must_ come after or that it doesn't exist - at all - is really just trying to limit what a person is capable of achieving. As if experience and knowledge can't shape a person's ability to make conscious choices in what they choose to do.

Example: Ni>>>Fi>Ti>Fe>>Si>Te>Ne>Se // Ni>>>Fe|Ti>Fi|Si>>Te>Se>>Ne will both - as a test result - type as INFJ. 

So when you get this Fe vs. Fi dom clash MBTI can help to point why there's a conflict because of each others thought process but who's to say a Fi user can't be more diplomatic and a Fe user lash out from Fi?

The more I read about people's opinions on MBTI the more I see how easily it is to be confused because of so many differing subjective opinions holding on to dear life - or is that too ironic of me? I should probably read more published work.


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