# I literally cannot stop doubting my type.



## marzipan01 (Jun 6, 2010)

Raichu said:


> Mhm. And I'm pretty outgoing when I'm not nervous, like when I'm with family or friends. It just takes me a while to warm up to new people. The difference is weird. There've been times I've gotten too anxious to order fast food and needed my mom to do it for me. >.< But on the other hand, this one time I was hanging out with my friends at the mall, and I was running up to random people and just talking to them like I knew them, completely fearless, just because my friends thought I wouldn't.
> 
> 
> 
> But they're not _weeeeeirddd_...


True, and what you're describing doesn't actually jive with ESTP very much. Sensors, in general, tend to be more confident. ESTPs aren't so much shy as they are sensitive to criticism or any hint that someone might not like them. Intuitive types tend to be more socially anxious like you're describing. From my experience, intuitive types are less confident. And your shyness might actually be on the introverted side. 

I can behave very extroverted and because I'm a feeler, I can even act like an extrovert, I, have at times, been able to overcome my quiet demeanor and talk to random strangers (especially when inebriated)...I can feel energized sometimes by positive relationships with close friends and family members, I can get loud and boisterous or argumentative when discussing a topic of interest....but I think this relates to 5w6 which seeks security at 8--meaning that, I can act like a loud, boisterous and confrontational person but my default setting is to over-analyze and be shy and avoidant. 

Weirdness usually relates to intuitive types but not necessarily. If you truly have felt like an outsider or strange combined with your tendency to be avoidant and overly anxious in social situations, I would at least reconsider introversion.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

AbioticPrime said:


> You are looking for closure, I'm not sure you'll find it.


I know. That's my problem.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

marzipan01 said:


> True, and what you're describing doesn't actually jive with ESTP very much. Sensors, in general, tend to be more confident. ESTPs aren't so much shy as they are sensitive to criticism or any hint that someone might not like them. Intuitive types tend to be more socially anxious like you're describing. From my experience, intuitive types are less confident. And your shyness might actually be on the introverted side.
> 
> I can behave very extroverted and because I'm a feeler, I can even act like an extrovert, I, have at times, been able to overcome my quiet demeanor and talk to random strangers (especially when inebriated)...I can feel energized sometimes by positive relationships with close friends and family members, I can get loud and boisterous or argumentative when discussing a topic of interest....but I think this relates to 5w6 which seeks security at 8--meaning that, I can act like a loud, boisterous and confrontational person but my default setting is to over-analyze and be shy and avoidant.
> 
> Weirdness usually relates to intuitive types but not necessarily. If you truly have felt like an outsider or strange combined with your tendency to be avoidant and overly anxious in social situations, I would at least reconsider introversion.


The thing is, I'll be anxious at first, but even if it's with strangers, I'll warm up to them and keep getting more comfortable and more energetic the longer I'm with them.
I mean, I thought I was an introvert for a long, long time, and I have some introvert tendencies, but I'm pretty confident that I'm an extrovert now. Because I don't see shy or anxious as my default setting. I think my default setting is more outgoing, but I just have a lot of social anxiety that gets in the way of that, because I wasn't shy at _all_ until I was like 10 or 11.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

Falling Leaves said:


> Yep. After some pretty toxic relationships in middle school, I used to sit in class and not talk to people. To be honest though, I once overheard a conversation the girls were having about how they needed to buy some yellow clothes because, OMG, yellow is now, like, totally in fashion! I don't think I missed much.


That was how the kids were when I briefly switched schools in 8th grade. All of them. >.< I mean, there were different social groups like at any school, but not much separated them. All the girls tried out for cheerleading, and all of them wore frickin mary janes and knee-high socks with their uniform. I was the only girl who wore pants in like the whole junior high.



> T/F is easy because you can easily measure it by the decision making process people take. S/N is harder because it's pretty much internalized (i.e. rather than being judging, it's perceiving).
> 
> Also, one issue is that where people draw the distinction between S/N is wildly subjective - what I would call quite iNtuitive behavior might be quite tame by an INTJs standards, or even quite weird by an ISFJs watch.
> 
> ...


The first one is definitely frustrating and annoying. I can't stand it when I'm trying to talk to someone, and they keep getting hung up on details and taking things too literally and stuff. I posted a rant about that.  ehhh But I'm not sure what you mean by the second one. >.< An example?


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Raichu said:


> The thing is, I'll be anxious at first, but even if it's with strangers, I'll warm up to them and keep getting more comfortable and more energetic the longer I'm with them.
> I mean, I thought I was an introvert for a long, long time, and I have some introvert tendencies, but I'm pretty confident that I'm an extrovert now. Because I don't see shy or anxious as my default setting. I think my default setting is more outgoing, but I just have a lot of social anxiety that gets in the way of that, because I wasn't shy at _all_ until I was like 10 or 11.


See, in all my iNtrovertedness, I'm nothing like that. When I'm just meeting someone offhand (i.e. unlikely I'm ever going to see them again), I can come across as fairly confident, open and not in the least bit shy. However, problems usually arise when I'm with people who I have to be with long term - even with my group of university friends, I hold most of myself back (although I doubt they realize -,-). Again, myself at heart is a weird individual, and it's hard to find someone who 'gets' that. 

But anyways, getting back to the point at hand, introversion =/= shy and socially anxious. Like you, I was never shy about being myself around others until 11-12, and that was only because of external factors. My *I*STP father is very socially gregarious, has the social confidence to say what he likes to a room full of strangers, and he'll crack up chit chat with random strangers. 

Sorry to rock the typing boat once again, but no type is immune to social anxiety, _including_ extroverts. In actuality, social behavior can be a very poor indicator of E/I. 

Where are you most comfortable 'centering' yourself? Do you feel most at ease when thinking to yourself? Does doing something which requires you to focus your mind and retreat into your head easily energize you? 

Or do you feel most at ease when interacting with the world, be it by interacting with others, focused whilst taking part in a sport you love, or connecting the dots between objects? Does doing something which forces you to shut off the 'thinking' part of your brain and engage with the world outside easily energize you? 

As a being, do you primarily live inside of your head or outside of it? These are the things which you should ask yourself.
_
[or course, I'm not trying to imply you aren't an extrovert, just that you shouldn't get too hung up on how shy/socially confident you are - it isn't the be all and end all]_


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Raichu said:


> The first one is definitely frustrating and annoying. I can't stand it when I'm trying to talk to someone, and they keep getting hung up on details and taking things too literally and stuff. I posted a rant about that.  ehhh But I'm not sure what you mean by the second one. >.< An example?


Oh yeah, I showed my ISFJ friend one of my posts here today, and he got offended. Why? Because my opening statement was something OTTO "All Christians want everyone else to go to hell". In context however, the statement was deliberately stereotyping to prove a point - he only calmed down once I carefully explained my point. And then he started taking apart another statement I made apart - "all chickens lay eggs" o_o 

Oh, and while I'm complaining about my friends on the internet, he has been pestering me all day for my student number so he can 'compare' our results on a recent test. Because, I'm guessing, he enjoys literal affirmations of intelligence (I also know an ISTJ who, despite scoring near perfect scores in all his exams, got snotty because I did better in one module than him). The ISFJ also got annoyed when he realized how I'm better than him at Chemistry (this was after hearing a semester of him sorta-like bragging about it -,-) /rant. 

...to explain the second one, idk, Ni is kind of hard to conceptualize. I suppose Ni are judgers in the sense that they focus on the future, however, these ideas about what may 'happen' are based upon gut feelings and whatnot, hence they can't always be easily explained. 

So an Ni user might say "I think if you buy Sarah a blue umbrella for her birthday she would really like it", and when asked to explain their reasoning, may give vague, ambiguous answer that doesn't make much sense.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

Falling Leaves said:


> But anyways, getting back to the point at hand, introversion =/= shy and socially anxious. Like you, I was never shy about being myself around others until 11-12, and that was only because of external factors. My *I*STP father is very socially gregarious, has the social confidence to say what he likes to a room full of strangers, and he'll crack up chit chat with random strangers.
> 
> Sorry to rock the typing boat once again, but no type is immune to social anxiety, _including_ extroverts. In actuality, social behavior can be a very poor indicator of E/I.


Yeah, I completely agree with you on that.



> Where are you most comfortable 'centering' yourself? Do you feel most at ease when thinking to yourself? Does doing something which requires you to focus your mind and retreat into your head easily energize you?


Honestly, if I spend too much time thinking, I get stressed out. >.< I can't spend too much time in my head, especially focusing hard on one thing.



> Or do you feel most at ease when interacting with the world, be it by interacting with others, focused whilst taking part in a sport you love, or connecting the dots between objects? Does doing something which forces you to shut off the 'thinking' part of your brain and engage with the world outside easily energize you?


Yup.

Like I said, I'm pretty confident I'm an extrovert. Just a shy one. ExxP for sure, and I'm also pretty positive now that I'm Ti/Fe. Like, very positive. Which makes it ExTP. And part of me thinks "If I can't just figure out this N/S thing absolutely for sure, I'll never doubt my type again!" But I think it's just in my nature. >.<


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Raichu said:


> Yeah, I completely agree with you on that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep - then you are without a doubt an E. Hrrrm, to solve the puzzle of what kind of E... (if it's any consolation, as gay as I am for them, I find EXXPs a bitch to tell apart too - I have two EXXP teaching practitioners I can't type o_o). My ENFP sister was also difficult - she really, really, doesn't come across as Ne-heavy at all, but every other personality doesn't make any sense. If she's an ESFP, she probably the most clumsy and physically inept Se-user out there...

*sigh* I'm stuck because if I knew the fucking difference between Ne and Se I wouldn't be in a personality pickle too. 

To google!

EDIT: http://personalitycafe.com/myers-br...rsus-ne-what-their-essential-differences.html

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...ted-sensation-function-se-misconceptions.html


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

Falling Leaves said:


> Oh yeah, I showed my ISFJ friend one of my posts here today, and he got offended. Why? Because my opening statement was something OTTO "All Christians want everyone else to go to hell". In context however, the statement was deliberately stereotyping to prove a point - he only calmed down once I carefully explained my point. And then he started taking apart another statement I made apart - "all chickens lay eggs" o_o


Mhm. I asked a question once like "if there was a machine that could tell you for _certain_ your Myers-Briggs type, would you use it? Do you think that'd be a good thing?" And people started saying shit like "duurr I don't think that's possible liek how would that even work," and I was like -________- It's hypothetical, it doesn't matter!! >.<!!!!

Or yeah, I've had times when I'm talking about something and I'll say something like that, like "all chickens lay eggs," and people will start nitpicking the details, and I'm like "Yes, I know that. I just decided not to say it because IT DOESN'T MATTER."

Makes me so mad. 



> So an Ni user might say "I think if you buy Sarah a blue umbrella for her birthday she would really like it", and when asked to explain their reasoning, may give vague, ambiguous answer that doesn't make much sense.


I mean, I would get _really_ annoyed if they just weren't answering the question >.< but I don't think just the fact that they made that assumption without a real reason would bug me very much.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

Falling Leaves said:


> Yep - then you are without a doubt an E. Hrrrm, to solve the puzzle of what kind of E... (if it's any consolation, as gay as I am for them, I find EXXPs a bitch to tell apart too - I have two EXXP teaching practitioners I can't type o_o). My ENFP sister was also difficult - she really, really, doesn't come across as Ne-heavy at all, but every other personality doesn't make any sense. If she's an ESFP, she probably the most clumsy and physically inept Se-user out there...
> 
> *sigh* I'm stuck because if I knew the fucking difference between Ne and Se I wouldn't be in a personality pickle too.
> 
> ...


The tough thing is that I always think I'm really aware of my surroundings, and I'm good at noticing things, but like when I was learning to drive, there were a couple times the instructor had to grab the wheel because I'd be staring at the time or speedometer or something and start drifting out of the lane... >.<

Someone said this:
_"Ne sees how things relate to other contexts, and sees consistencies with seemingly random things. Ne in a discussion or when learning would factor in other contexts to the current one when used. This is why it appears "random" in use. This is also why Ne people are good with ideas, since they are just imply factoring in other contexts."_
which I can really relate to. People will be talking about something or explaining something, and I'll go "Oh, kinda like that one time blah blah blah?" And they're like "umm what does that have to do with anything?" And I'm like "Uh, nothing, I guess. I just thought of it. Because it was similar..."


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Raichu said:


> Mhm. I asked a question once like "if there was a machine that could tell you for _certain_ your Myers-Briggs type, would you use it? Do you think that'd be a good thing?" And people started saying shit like "duurr I don't think that's possible liek how would that even work," and I was like -________- It's hypothetical, it doesn't matter!! >.<!!!!


This happened to me when I made up a scenario about envelopes which predict your death; despite specifying that the deaths were fully self-prophesying (i.e. they cannot be stopped), people still said 'herrrp derrrp, I would just avoid X, Y and Z'. 

The most stupid ones were saying 'if it's a heart attack, I'll just be really healthy' - dude, anybody can have a fucking heart attack, unhealthy food n' shit just increases your _risk_. 



Raichu said:


> The tough thing is that I always think I'm really aware of my surroundings, and I'm good at noticing things, but like when I was learning to drive, there were a couple times the instructor had to grab the wheel because I'd be staring at the time or speedometer or something and start drifting out of the lane... >.<
> 
> Someone said this:
> _"Ne sees how things relate to other contexts, and sees consistencies with seemingly random things. Ne in a discussion or when learning would factor in other contexts to the current one when used. This is why it appears "random" in use. This is also why Ne people are good with ideas, since they are just imply factoring in other contexts."_
> which I can really relate to. People will be talking about something or explaining something, and I'll go "Oh, kinda like that one time blah blah blah?" And they're like "umm what does that have to do with anything?" And I'm like "Uh, nothing, I guess. I just thought of it. Because it was similar..."


Read the other link I put in there (if you haven't done so already). It talks about how Se and Ne can kind of cross over. 

For me, it's really feckin' tricky. If you lay out an ISTPs thought patterns compared to an INTP, I'll instantly pick out the ISTP as the one I associate with, no questions. HOWEVER, lay down a _description_ of an INTP and ISTP, I'll instantly associate with the former (e.g. obsession with competence, more interested in thinking to myself than doing, really weird sense of humor, really closed off, 'decides' that they can't connect with people, constantly questioning and frustrated the mundane, etcetcetc). 

When I learned to drive, I once started daydreaming and ran a red light 

I have the same problem: I very easily tune out and stop paying attention to stuff. Although I am literal, I don't tend to be very observant. I have a very short attention span - if I decide something is 'useless' to me, it has a lot of trouble going in.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

Falling Leaves said:


> Read the other link I put in there (if you haven't done so already). It talks about how Se and Ne can kind of cross over.


Well, at least it makes me feel better for not knowing.

I think... I think... I think Ne sounded more like me.
I think Ne sounded more like me, and I think that generally ENTP sounds more like me.
*sigh*



> When I learned to drive, I once started daydreaming and ran a red light


UGH I did that too once!! It was really awkward, too, because I was skipping class, and I didn't know if the light had a camera, because if it did, then it would tell home that our car ran a red light at exactly whatever time it was, and they'd have been like "um wtf weren't you supposed to be in class."


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Raichu said:


> Well, at least it makes me feel better for not knowing.
> 
> I think... I think... I think Ne sounded more like me.
> I think Ne sounded more like me, and I think that generally ENTP sounds more like me.
> *sigh*


You sound disappointed  

In all honesty, you come across as more Ne-ish than Se-ish. Your quotes don't really stick to a single thought, but seem more... floaty? I don't know the word for it. 



> UGH I did that too once!! It was really awkward, too, because I was skipping class, and I didn't know if the light had a camera, because if it did, then it would tell home that our car ran a red light at exactly whatever time it was, and they'd have been like "um wtf weren't you supposed to be in class."


How would your parents know you should have been in school? Couldn't you have said you had a free?


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

@Falling Leaves yeah this is that whiner thread i made about it  http://personalitycafe.com/venting/...-smart-but-really-i-just-wanna-punch-you.html


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

@Raichu - Well, if it's any consolation, I believe Ne's big hard on is possibilities, whereas Si (it's opposite) doesn't like things which 'conflict' with truths. 

For example, when I told my ISFJ friend about how My Little Pony has a huge male 18-35 year old following, he refused to take me seriously :dry:

Also, I've been meaning to say this since I first saw your posts, but I like your username :3


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

Falling Leaves said:


> You sound disappointed


Not disappointed. Just like "wow now I have to change my type again." 



> In all honesty, you come across as more Ne-ish than Se-ish. Your quotes don't really stick to a single thought, but seem more... floaty? I don't know the word for it.


That's reassuring, at least. And yeah, I think I know what you mean, but I can't think of a better way to say it either >.<



> How would your parents know you should have been in school? Couldn't you have said you had a free?


I guess, if they didn't remember. But I live at home, so they knew I was leaving for class that day. And I mean, if it was just my mom, I wouldn't expect her to remember (or care much about) the date or where I was and stuff, but my ISTJ dad would.


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## Raichu (Aug 24, 2012)

Falling Leaves said:


> Also, I've been meaning to say this since I first saw your posts, but I like your username :3


AWWWW lol thanks roud:


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## AbioticPrime (Sep 1, 2011)

Falling Leaves said:


> @_Raichu_ - Well, if it's any consolation, I believe Ne's big hard on is possibilities, whereas Si (it's opposite) doesn't like things which 'conflict' with truths.
> 
> For example, when I told my ISFJ friend about how My Little Pony has a huge male 18-35 year old following, he refused to take me seriously :dry:
> 
> Also, I've been meaning to say this since I first saw your posts, but I like your username :3


Fuck the UN. Post rank title!! How?? ;p


Wow so you made the switch. I hope you'll feel settled in on this one -- something I've noticed of Ne-doms is they tend to debate possibilities for ages and one of their largest difficulties is settling on one of those and accepting it as reality. 

Perhaps that grain of what I just said might help you settle into one reality ;p


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## KnottyArtist (Feb 12, 2013)

series0 said:


> Humorous! You cannot ever really nail it down and who would want to anyway? People shift their type all the time throughout life as experience changes them. A host of folks are on the borders to one type or another and go back and forth across it. You're better off expressing your current state only and that as an approximation.
> 
> Be glad its unknowable. The system is in flux and growth and change are possible.
> 
> Get the use out of the tool by learning what your set of common types expose as weaknesses and keep those in mind during decisions and undertake efforts to shore them up. Using the weakest link philosophy will get you to a wiser expression of yourself that just running with your strength or ego trance all the time.


The Consultant who ran the seminar I went to on this said that the Myers-Briggs chicks said that everyone was born a certain way and through out our life and experiences we LEARN to be the opposite. I was born an extrovert and I learned through bad experiences of bullying to be an introvert. It was safer for the time being. That's why it was hard for me to decipher, according to their tests what was me or what was taught. An entp has extroverted behavior but introverted thinking and that was definately me. The consultant said you are looking for 75% compatibility in these descriptions. That means there's going to be things that aren't you. We do change and flux but it's growth and our learning capabilities that change us. We, at our core, have the same things that bug us but may have "learned" to deal with them better over time. With all this questioning and doubt you are definately an N and NOT a S lol.


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## Lotan (Aug 10, 2012)

I'd say don't worry about it too much but I know that can be difficult. I have also doubted my type, and doubted it more than once. I've been typed as every single NT, one NF, and one SP type. The only reason I'm pretty confident about ENTJ is that I relate really well to inferior Fe and the Te-Se loop when I'm stressed.

And yet sometimes I still wake up in the middle of the night and wonder "If there were an all-powerful 100% accurate MBTI computer that could scan you and diagnose your type, would it tell me I'm an ENTJ?"

I think everyone gets a little confused sometimes just because there is no 100% objective way of determining your type.


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## voicetrocity (Mar 31, 2012)

Is there something in the water? Air?

I never doubted my type until a few months ago, and I first took the MBTI ten years ago. I first came out INFJ then the "official"test pegged me as ENFP; then I read about inferior Fe and had a _"oh, sh*T"_ Moment. Now, that doesn't seem to fit all that well. 

Based on your signature, I see that you've decided on a type for now, and I hope that's comfortable for you. If not, it's ok to go back to the drawing board. Typing is a journey, and there are a lot of things to take into consideration. 

Wishing you the best and letting you know that you're definitely not alone.


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