# Type 1 and type 8 Differences



## Ummon (Jun 16, 2014)

Hi everyone! What would you say the differences are between 8s and 1s?
I'm especially wondering about 8w9 vs 1w2.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

i can only give a superficial answer, since this is more of an impression for me than anything else (for a more direct, detailed answer, read): 

the biggest, most overt difference would be in the need of justification (or the seeming need of). depending on close the 8's line to 2 is, he/she may not bother with explaining their actions, nor defending their actions, to themselves or others. the 1 has a more "inborn justification" that is already present. 

an 8 may have a "protecting the weak" side to their personality, that would resemble the above--and when it comes down to it, these are pieces of a whole, and so similarities can constantly be found that would undo a previous contrast--so, it has more to do with a general, overall, first-glance look of a person's actions, and where their sense of comfort seems to be derived (to answer this question that is... it all gets kind of circular when looking at the in's and out's a person, and trying to find where they differ and align, since it's based on the current perspective to begin with). 

maybe someone else can give you a better answer though.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

The conventional answer, and for the most part it is true, is that 8's and 1's handle their body energy differently. 8's are overtly energetic people who really push themselves into their environment, devouring it opportunistically. 8's are more likely to be warm, fun and big-hearted than 1's. 8's don't tend to restrict themselves much; once they get locked in and on a roll, they keep going and tend to not look back. 8's don't tend to hesitate on what they do. Their energy as a whole is pushed outward. An *8w9*, fundamentally as an 8, will use force to push and get their way. Despite their straight-forwardness and simplicity, they can also come off as more calm and relaxed than both 8w7 and 1w2. They have a forgetful, lax side that alternates with the intensity of their core type. 

1's, in contrast, don't so much care to conquer their environment as they do to control and/or reform it when it doesn't fit what they think it should be. 1's tend to be more punitive, cold, constricted, discriminating, and depersonalized than 8's. Chaotic and messy animal drives (many of which 8's would not put a check on) are rejected and swatted away, where the energy then converts to irritation. 1's compulsion to check against disorder gives them a more controlled, logical, rational thought style than that of 8. Although they are sure of what they think, they aren't always sure they have done enough, and therefore hesitate more than 8's. *1w2* are sharp, keen critics of both themselves and the people around them. They can come off as proud, cultivated, pretentious, and put together - in many ways the opposite of an 8w9. 



Both types are strong-willed, both are passionate, both can be cynical, and both lead to an adversarial relationship with their environment. Both types are actionable, and do not want others to see weaker parts of themselves. Both types can be noble and give themselves to a cause, and can act out of anger. Both can also be destructive and mindlessly cause harm to others. People who relate to these shared descriptors can have trouble deciding between the two types.


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## username123 (May 21, 2013)

Just like Donovan, this is my two cents from my observations:

I have a 1w2 sister and an 8 aunt, and this thread made me immediately start picturing what they're like at family gatherings. Not that that's the only time they/we see each other, but they can tend to stick together at gatherings. They seem to bond over their sense that they're above the rest of the family as a whole, but for my sister it's a desire to be perfect and better than others - sort of like a front - & for my aunt it's that she seems to actually believe she is better than others or perhaps more important is a more accurate word. My aunt is also faster to react - that animal intensity you read about - than my sister who is very tightly contained. My sister will go off on someone, but it's usually if they say something that violates her core values - for example, using a racial slur or being genuinely condescending about a less privileged group. She typically only gets into arguments when it's really important to either her values or sense of self. My aunt, unlike my sister, isn't going to get protective over a less privileged group (i.e. underdogs she doesn't know), but she definitely is protective of her loved ones, especially the underdogs. She also often doesn't seem to even realize when she targets other people. Honesty and bluntness are just how she is. For example, I might walk into her house and she'll say to me, "Your dress looks like it was made out of a curtain," while laughing. She's not trying to target me, she just genuinely thinks it's funny and isn't going to lie to my face about it. In addition, she is much less sensitive than my sister. If someone criticizes my sister, she takes it _straight _to heart. She isn't going to sulk about it in public, but it's going to hurt her on the inside. If someone criticizes my aunt, she just doesn't seem too hurt. Instead, she seems to assume that the other person has the problem and often sees it as a fight. I guess if she's criticized, she's less concerned about her feelings being hurt and more concerned about maintaining her authority in the position of alpha dog. I think if I _had _to sum up my aunt, I would say that her role is that of alpha dog, and that's how she intends to keep it. My sister tries to put on an impenetrable front because she sees being too emotional as a sign of imperfection, but that's all it is - a front.

Random last thought: From observing my aunt and interviews with 8s, they always seem to either be physically big - I'm not talking fat, they just idk often seem tall or big boned - and/or seem larger than they are because of their strong presence. They could be 5'3" and you couldn't miss them if they were in a room. Also more likely to show their negative emotions on their face than 1s are.


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

@username123

Well, my mentality is that we all have a monster inside of us: Humans are predators after all; and we need to develop the self-control to hold that monster in place and keep it from coming out and playing too much.

I suppose that has 1 and 6 written all over it


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

The best and likely only thread on this subject, so far, is linked below. Enough has been said on outward behaviours etc., and it's not substantive. There's much more nuanced and detailed analysis (hornevian triad, body triad, object relations, passions, virtues, freudian associations, common mistypings, instinctual variants etc.) here:

http://personalitycafe.com/type-1-f...ning-one-eight-core-fix-list-differences.html

Make sure to browse through the ensuing discussion. A few things from the OP get ironed out and critiqued, excellent though it is. 

On a more specific aspect crucial to both 1s and 8s, I'll add an older post of mine to give you additional perspective. 


> As I have said earlier, a One has a more entrenched/codified set of internal moral standards. It is important for the one to live up to these. Justice, intertwined, with fairness is a moral ideal to a One. A One is capable of feeling intense anger when seeing the abuse of innocence like an 8. But, unlike the 1, an 8 is not actively trying to live up their ethical standards (correcting wrongs etc.) or an ideal of justice. 8s have a more visceral reaction to injustice (abuse of innocence [keep the vengeance-innocence dynamic in mind when it comes to 8s as its central to their stance on justice]). They react or respond to an injustice as its taking place in way that's very instinctive, and their sense of justice is far more simplistic than that of a One. It's why some would even go so far as to call it 'barbaric'- eye for an eye etc. Ones tend to theorize on matters of Justice much more often than 8s. But, it's entirely possible for an evolved 8 to see the pitfalls of an "eye for an eye approach", and it's all too possible for a One who feels morally justified (when the superego approves of such an action) in taking revenge in violent ways to approve of the "an eye for an eye mindset". Also, fairness to a One has to do with the uniform application of rules across the board because anything less would be unprincipled. For an 8, fairness has more to do with ensuring they get their share and don't receive the short end of the deal. It's more personal, more "me-centered". It can have broader more egalitarian implication in high functioning 8s, but at the core it's id-referencing. So, the whole thing is really is more complex of an issue than your post presents. It was good in parts, and I don't have the time to respond to it line by line or quote by quote so these are my general impressions and comments. I see it as too black/white.
> 
> Also, seeing the world in terms of strictly good/evil, right/wrong and corrupt/pure etc. is more One rather than Eight. Eights view the world as a dog-eat-dog conflictual place. Misusing power to hurt the 8 or those they care for and/or view as innocent would result in feelings of vengeance (working to even the score on behalf of the abused, as an example). We ran into a bit of a problem on your thread where you took my words that 8s weren't fixated on right vs. wrong as implying that they simply had no sense of right or wrong. All adult humans, including the most rugged individualists among 8s, still have an understanding of right and wrong. Is it as deeply entrenched in their belief system as that of a One? No. Are they resentful about the morally corrupt behaviour of others, as in is it a running theme in their life? No. Are 8s able to feel intense anger/rage at what may be considered immoral/harmful behaviour? Yes. Are they inherently reformist and in tune with correcting immoral (unethical/wrong/irrationally or illogically flawed value-based) behaviours? No. They tend not to view things in moralistic terms or evaluating situations against their personal moral/ethical standards (which is Type 1), but they are just capable of acting against perceived injustice because they have their own sense of integrity (not strictly moral propriety). If they see someone (they consider) innocent being taken advantage of, an 8 might be very quick to respond.
> 
> ...


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@Naqsh
good points, speaking as a 1 fixer with a very 8-ish flavor of what I consider justice (very Randian, rugged individualist, "look out for your own"). justice to 8s is, as you said, something they react to, whereas this would be unthinkable to a 1. this goes for general anger as well.

a good example of this came up the other day when I was talking with @KindOfBlue06 on Skype (he has an 8 fix, I have a 1 fix). I was in the student lobby talking with him and, for the first hour or so, no one was in there. then a bunch of loud, Spanish speaking peeps came in and, after a few minutes, KoB said "tell those guys to shut the fuck up". obviously, I realized he was kidding, but it made me realize the differences between us pretty clearly. his first thought (even if I'm sure he wouldn't have said it) was "you're annoying, stfu!". my first thoughts when he said this were "this is the student lounge, they are allowed to talk". obviously, I have no issues with being assertive, but the idea of responding aggressively to a behavior which was obviously justified is not even something which would cross my mind. 
however, when I _do_ believe someone is guilty, I have no problem being just as vengeful, violent and punishing as any 8 (in fact, I will feel good about myself for doing so, both out of a sense of "justice was served" and a more smug, Id-ish satisfaction of "I have vanquished my foe!  )

@Ummon
in particular, it's usually going to be the Social 8 and Sexual 1 who mistype as the other. they are both the "countertypes" of their given type and Beatrice Chestnut refers to them as "a social anti-social person" and "a counter counter-instinctive person" respectively. 

Social 8 is the "helpful" 8 whom Naranjo describes as a child who "teams up with mommy against daddy" (or something like that). more so than the other 8s, they stick up for the underdog, often spearheading civil rights movements (Martin Luther King Jr. was 8w9 So/Sx), and with more of a tendency toward self sacrifice (usually unconscious, some might even try to deny it).

Naranjo gives the Sexual 1 the theme of "Zeal" and characterizes them as reformers and advocates rather than perfectionists like Sp and So 1s. Sexual 1 tends to have a mindset of "I know what's best for the rest of society, so follow me!" and have a more outwardly angry, often more charismatic presence than other 1s. in my experience, they can have a "pressure cooker" sort of quality to them, similar to a volcano waiting to erupt (an analogy typically reserved for 8w9) and are the more physical of the 1 subtypes. they also tend to be a bit more harsh and quicker to punish than other 1s, with more of a "swift death to evil" "sword of justice" kind of mentality.


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## Ummon (Jun 16, 2014)

Thanks for your responses, everyone! This has been _really_ helpful. @Naqsh, I read through some of the posts on the thread you linked and that cleared up a lot of things. I was wondering whether 1 is actually my gut fix, and this has confirmed it.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

@Naqsh

...actually, I'm curious about something, and it'd probably enhance my understanding of both types to get an answer on this front...

Could it be said that 1-ish preoccupation with justice is as a part of their desire for _personal_ perfection (because if they're going to live by certain ethical rules, they should _really live by them_), whereas for 8 the justice fixation is the result of their connection to 2? In particular, I'm thinking about how unhealthy 2 believes that it _deserves_ something for what it's given or suffered through, which connects both to negative reactions to the suffering of innocents (reminds the 8's inner 2 there is no justice, triggering negative reaction), and Muhammed Ali's quote (sort of resembles a guilt trip, puts a price on his help).


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## Blazkovitz (Mar 16, 2014)

As far as I understand the enneagram, 1 and 8 both strive for power; however for 8 power is important for its own sake; for a 1 it is simply very useful to promote his ideals.



username123 said:


> My sister will go off on someone, but it's usually if they say something that violates her core values - for example, using a racial slur or being genuinely condescending about a less privileged group.


This is rather like me, making me more sure that I'm in fact a 1w2. My mother is 8w9 (so I think), she would rather go angry if she felt someone violated her personal space or her privacy.


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