# Why are smart people usually ugly?



## infinitewisdom

Yesterday I read this article Are smart people ugly? The Explainer's 2011 Question of the Year. and today I found myself attempting to see if there was any truth to the story while drivng around the microsoft campus. Everyone I saw appeared average looking. Next I browsed, some Nt photo threads and noticed more pretty women and handsome men than not. Who writes this shit?


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## KneeSeekerArrow

What?

Smart people tend to be more attractive. The explanation given by some research papers is that smart men tend to marry more beautiful women, and their children will possess both traits. Therefore over time these two traits will co-vary and there will be a small but positive correlation between IQ and attractiveness.

I read the article but not much of it makes sense.


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## Owfin

I don't the intelligence is connected with ugliness (probably somebody was feeling a little spiteful with that premise), but keep in mind that ugly people might not want to share pictures of themselves, so your sample is a little skewed.


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## reletative

I do not think beauty and intelligence are connected.


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## nreynolds1990

I don't necessarily think that smart people are necessarily ugly or unattractive. However, I would maybe pose the general statement that smart people may be more inclined to look plain and ordinary as opposed to overly glamorous and flamboyant. This is probably because smart people (or at least what is considered a smart person in society) is probably less focused on external appearance as they are the ideas in their head. So they are not so much concerned if they are up to date with the latest fashions or don't care as much if they forgot to do their hair or put on their makeup. Thats just my theory anyways...


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## Owfin

nreynolds1990 said:


> I don't necessarily think that smart people are necessarily ugly or unattractive. However, I would maybe pose the general statement that smart people may be more inclined to look plain and ordinary as opposed to overly glamorous and flamboyant. This is probably because smart people (or at least what is considered a smart person in society) is probably less focused on external appearance as they are the ideas in their head. So they are not so much concerned if they are up to date with the latest fashions or don't care as much if they forgot to do their hair or put on their makeup. Thats just my theory anyways...


Smart people can also be very interested in the ideas of form and beauty. So...


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## Sea Anenome

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The concept of beauty is likely influenced by the culture in which one lives. A person with an IQ of 200 could be considered beautiful by American/Western standards while simultaneously considered ugly by Bhutanese standards. For this reason, I do not think there is a correlation between beauty and intelligence.


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## Malx

I'm not ugly :shocked:


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## nreynolds1990

bluebatteries said:


> I'm not ugly :shocked:


But you are also not very smart  Haha just kidding man


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## Hastings

Khys said:


> I do not think beauty and intelligence are connected.


1. People can get successful on intelligence alone
2. People can get successful on looks alone
3. There are people who are both really dumb and really ugly
4. There are people who are both really intelligent and gorgeous


I think the nerd archetype, or its past equivalents, does play in: there are a lot of introverted thinkers in the history of the world who cared more about their ideas than their looks. This has caught people's attention.


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## Abraxas

Seriously, what is the point of this thread.

Just read the article for more than a paragraph.



http://mobile.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/explainer/2012/01/are_smart_people_ugly_the_explainer_s_2011_question_of_the_year_.html said:


> And in first place, with the support of 9.4 percent of our readers, the winner by a landslide and Explainer Question of the Year for 2011:
> 
> 
> _Why are smart people usually ugly? I get this isn't always the case, but there does seem to be a correlation. Attractiveness doesn't predict intelligence (not all ugly people are smart), but it seems like intelligence can be a good predictor for attractiveness (smart people are usually on the ugly side). Keep in mind, I have nothing against people who are really brilliant, I've just always wondered._
> 
> 
> The answer: They’re not.
> 
> 
> Oh, how the Explainer loves a false premise. When it comes time to assemble the year-end list, he'll always give extra credit to questions that are predicated on blatant untruths. In 2010, for example, someone wanted to know why athletes never sneeze. In 2009, a reader asked, _Why is it always funny to put something on your head as a pretend hat_? But this year's winning question isn't merely ill-posed; it gets the truth exactly backward.


If you are seriously asking why people write dumb shit like this...

... Well I mean, isn't that _kind of ironic_?

... @infinitewisdom ...


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## infinitewisdom

@Abraxas. I wanted to hear others perspective and was,sharing something I thought was kind of funny. Are you sensitive on this subject?


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## The Proof

pfft I am dead sexy, anyone disputing that is likely on antipsychotics


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## redmanXNTP

nreynolds1990 said:


> I don't necessarily think that smart people are necessarily ugly or unattractive. However, I would maybe pose the general statement that smart people may be more inclined to look plain and ordinary as opposed to overly glamorous and flamboyant. This is probably because smart people (or at least what is considered a smart person in society) is probably less focused on external appearance as they are the ideas in their head. So they are not so much concerned if they are up to date with the latest fashions or don't care as much if they forgot to do their hair or put on their makeup. Thats just my theory anyways...


You've clearly got only one paradigm in your head when you write this, and that's along the lines of the classic, nerdy, ascetic professor/engineer type with a pocket protector who's geeked out over the latest math problem and doesn't remember to zip his pants. While that stereotype certainly has some validity to it, you're going to have a lot of trouble finding examples of it among just the ENT's, for example. 

It takes all kinds in this world.


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## redmanXNTP

Sea Anenome said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The concept of beauty is likely influenced by the culture in which one lives. A person with an IQ of 200 could be considered beautiful by American/Western standards while simultaneously considered ugly by Bhutanese standards. For this reason, I do not think there is a correlation between beauty and intelligence.


People always argue this but I think it's only true to a certain extent. It's pretty rare when I see a woman who is held out as being beautiful by another culture who doesn't look attractive to me in some way, much less who looks revolting. 

There have been scientific studies down showing, for example, facial symmetry is a universal characteristic defined as "beautiful" or attractive by all cultures. 

So, while beauty certainly is subjective, it's not entirely so. Instead of a woman possibly being rated the proverbial "1" by someone and a "10" by someone else, it might be more accurate to say that she might range between "5" and "8" among the vast majority of people, while another woman would be 7-10, or 4-6, etc.


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## VitaminDeficient

We (almost) all know that this isn't the case. The more interesting question is why do people feel the need to propagate these stereotypes? Insecurity, usually; if you think you're only endowed with one of these things then it's nice to console yourself with the false notion that people aren't entitled to both. 

Mainstream Hollywood films and television also plays a role, as someone mentioned. They overuse the premise for teen and romantic comedies all the time; it doesn't matter how intelligent/interesting/kind-hearted a character (generally a girl) is, unless she ditches her glasses and starts showing skin, she will have no friends and (of course) no boyfriend. 

Unfortunately, some people continue to buy this crap and are correspondingly shocked when they meet someone 'nerdy' who looks 'normal' or, worse still, attractive.


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## Amanecer007

This sounds like BS to me....most of the smart people I know are also somewhat attractive. However, I will say that a great mind is much more attractive than good looks, at least to me.


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## Sheisstellar

I would think that intelligent people would generally be more attractive because being "easy on the eyes" is a sign that the person is healthy and has good genetics... therefore they make an ideal mate based on intelligence, health, and physical features.


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## TrailMix

Okay, so this is going to be sort of an odd statement, and I'll probably get a lot of crap for this, but here we go:

I feel like a lot of the attractive AND intelligent people who actively care for their looks are more likely to "dumb it down" for the rest of society while in public out of fear of being considered arrogant or standing out too much.

Some other intelligent people dont care for their appearance and are less likely to care about what others think about them and these may be the people that are considered the "ugly", intelligent people.

I really dont want to sound pretentious or full of myself or anything, but I'm pretty smart and have been told that I am of above-average in terms of looks (certainly dont stand out, but you know what I mean). After I came out of my awkward stage of high school and went to college, I had to learn to hide some facets of my intelligence while in regular conversation because it is often disconcerting to many people. It changes how people perceive you, which is a damn shame. For example:

During orientation weekend, I was trying to look my best to make a good impression on everyone (as was everyone else). My friend and I were sitting eating when we were approached by a group of guys and we all eventually started sharing our majors. When it got to me, and I said engineering, half the guys laughed and were like "are you kidding?" and they all treated me very differently afterwards. Of course, this doesnt apply to all people, but it is prominent enough in my mind to have made a statement about it...


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## Dashing

This is pure nonsense. I can't find any legit logical explanation for it, thus it must be fiction.


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## Tainted Streetlight

Why does no one try to cite legitimate sources in threads like that?

I have one arguing the opposite:
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1983-22619-001


...
I lie.



KneeSeekerArrow said:


> Wouldn't assortative mating be non sequiteur? Assortative mating will lead to increased variance in both intelligence and attractiveness, but it does not say anything about whether the two traits will be covariant. The fact that people tend to reproduce with partners with a similar level of attractiveness neither supports nor disproves the hypothesis that intelligence is correlated with attractiveness.
> 
> I am not looking to either debate or make an opinion. I am simply reiterating the literature that I have read. I have done a fast literature search with Google scholar on this topic. Of all the search matches on the first 2 pages, I found four papers relevant to this topic, and all four supports the hypothesis that intelligence is correlated with attractiveness. Here they are:
> 
> http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1983-22619-001
> Why beautiful people are more intelligent 10.1016/j.intell.2004.03.003 : Intelligence | ScienceDirect.com
> Intelligence and physical attractiveness 10.1016/j.intell.2010.11.003 : Intelligence | ScienceDirect.com
> Intelligence tests with higher g-loadings show higher correlations with body symmetry: Evidence for a general fitness factor mediated by developmental stability 10.1016/j.intell.2004.07.007 : Intelligence | ScienceDirect.com
> 
> Of course you can say the results are inconclusive, or that more studies need to be done, or that the papers are flawed. I would accept those arguments, but I don't think assortative mating is relevant to this.


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## Persephone

In my experience, the smartest people tend to be hideous or above average in looks, and I have specific people in mind. The bombshells tend not to be the most intelligent, and I remember the INTx quiz bowl captain we used to have as being almost beautiful. Unlike his sister, who is on the lower end of the looks spectrum (and seems average to above average in terms of intelligence), his IQ is off the charts. I say this despite his being slightly overweight, he had porcelain pale skin, striking dark eyes, well-sculpted, vibrantly-colored and slightly protruding lower lip and a musical baritone voice. Of course, he's haughty, and that comes with being so intelligent, but I found that guy fascinating.

/crushover/ So yeah. Personal experience :/


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## BroNerd

I have a genius-level IQ.
Some ladies think I'm hot, some ladies think I'm not.
I am good-looking but lack physical charisma. 
All my charisma is intellectually based.


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## aef8234

Because Casual sex is awesome, but "stupid"?


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## OrdinarinessIsAFWTD

Tainted Streetlight said:


> I have one arguing the opposite:
> http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1983-22619-001


Well, 'herp-a-derp' there's a positive correlation between the two. Not because of there are swarms of brainy beauties to go around, but because the population of fugly dipshits never seems to dwindle.

Moreover, to treat pulchritude and intellect as faces of the same coin is folly. In due course, both will be reverse-engineered, but the former waaaaaaaaaay before the latter.


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## NotSoRighteousRob

I'm smart and damnnnnnnnnnn sexy


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## NotSoRighteousRob

Meritocrat said:


> Well, 'herp-a-derp' there's a positive correlation between the two. Not because of there are swarms of brainy beauties to go around, but because the population of fugly dipshits never seems to dwindle.
> 
> Moreover, to treat pulchritude and intellect as faces of the same coin is folly. In due course, both will be reverse-engineered, but the former waaaaaaaaaay before the latter.



I almost spit out my drink reading this, fugly dipshits, absolutely priceless! and true as well


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## DMTR

Ugly people just need to draw more attention by showing off their intelligence. That's why ugly people are often perceived as more intelligent. Good looking people who are also intelligent don't need to show off how smart they are. They are good looking. 

It's not even a conscious act, it's just the way nature compensates for weakness.


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## DMTR

HollyGolightly said:


> Beauty is subjective. I look like my mother drank heavily throughout pregnancy and my intelligence level is about average. But some people think I am attractive and find me interesting. Others just vomit when I pass them in the street. It's all about perception.
> 
> I'm exaggerating a little bit. But you get my drift.


There are objective criteria for beauty.


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## Davana

Actually in my school it's the other way round. You know in schools the popular crowd is made up of all the attractive people? The popular crowd in my school doesn't have many stupid people. I think most of the people in Set 1 for Maths in my school are in the popular crowd (Of course some smart people aren't in the popular crowd). My best friend is a genius. She's fluent in two languages, is an AMAZING artist, an amazing speller, great at maths, great at Literacy and everything she does pretty much. And she's really pretty. So I disagree with what you're saying.


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## Master Mind

Sounds like a stereotype to me. Disregarding for a moment the subjectivity of physical attractiveness to begin with, intelligence and physical attractiveness are not mutually exclusive.


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## ghenwa

I've no concept of aesthetic attraction so I can't comment, unless your face is like hideously asymmetrical and all your teeth are turning black or something. Agree that it's totally a stereotype. Who knows? Maybe the really smart, really attractive ones are aware that they are attractive, but act dumb to get under the radar and fuck up all the stats so they can one day rule the world or something. Or they're doing the same thing because of social pressure. It's all so subjective. I don't think you can actually address this completely objectively...

/rolls out


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## nakkinaama

KneeSeekerArrow said:


> What?
> 
> Smart people tend to be more attractive. The explanation given by some research papers is that *smart men tend to marry more beautiful women*, and their children will possess both traits. Therefore over time these two traits will co-vary and there will be a small but positive correlation between IQ and attractiveness.
> 
> I read the article but not much of it makes sense.


Smart men dont marry. Or, if I was a smart man, I wouldnt marry, because the lady would kill me and she would get my insurances or whatever, and spend the rest of her life on a private island with her new hot, smart man who owns a succesful business/factory that makes eyeglasses. And of course I mean by being smart is being rich. Because lets face it, smart men can be rich. Especially them. So if I were rich and smart, I wouldnt share, and risk it all.


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## Persephone

Double post


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## Persephone

I don't think he's ugly.

View attachment 43404

Nor he.

View attachment 43405


Nor he.

View attachment 43406


I think most Americans have a very binary mode of thinking. I keep seeing these ridiculous dichotomies. Do you want a rich guy or a good guy? An handsome asshole or an ugly nice guy? An Einstein or a Brad Pitt? What the fuck?

What about these Jodie Foster (Yale), Natalie Portman (Harvard) or Rachel Weisz (Cambridge)? Is Marilyn Vos Savant ugly?


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## Judas

Taller people are in general more intelligent. Better looking people are in general more intelligent. People with glasses (!) are in general more intelligent. Whites and Asians are in general more intelligent.

So what?  Generalites does not meen that an ugly short african-american with perfect eyesight can be smart anyhow.

One idea that bothers me though, is that the "nerds" are usually portrayed as intelligent. The intelligent stereotype in books, movies and so on is a "geek"/"nerd". 

Not true by my experience.


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## Jabberbroccoli

I'm sexy and I know it.


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## CCCXXIX

Are smart people ugly? The Explainer's 2011 Question of the Year. - Slate Magazine


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## Hunny Bunny

Richard Feynman was HOT.


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## nujabes

Why are pretty people usually stupid?

Oh I thought this was the "let out your uninformed prejudices" thread...


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## INTJellectual

Oh the stereotypes.

Genetics, looks, attractiveness, have nothing to do with intelligence. People who label intelligent people as ugly are just threatened because they cannot find any bad things to say to those who are intelligent.

Usually, the intelligent people don't care about following every stupid and ridiculous trends and fashion that comes along that hypnotizes the mind of masses that by following each and every trend, you look "kool". The average-brained people are those who are very particular about being hot, beautiful, and seductive. They use that skill to attract the equally "looks-oriented" people.


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## wiarumas

I can see both sides of the argument - that there are unattractive, intelligent people breeding because they do not have looks and seek out intelligence in other partners. This perpetuated smart ugly people. Then there are attractive and intelligent people who seek out people with the full package of good looks and intelligence because they can afford to. Why settle for less? The whole hypothesis that smart people are exclusively good looking or ugly is bunk just the same as that good looking girls are always dumb. 

Also, just for the record, attractiveness has little to do with clothes or fashion (that's more of an indicator of wealth and social status - which some find attractive but it's only a mask like makeup or a nice car). What attracts us is natural indicators of healthy genes. Nice hair, good complexion, smell, posture, teeth/smile, etc are all indicators of genetics and overall health.


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