# Is there such a thing as toxic honesty?



## SilverMist (May 30, 2017)

Basically what the title says. If yes, at what point does honesty become toxic, and what factors in to that? If no, explain that as well. No real context, it's just a random thought.


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## nablur (Mar 9, 2017)

SilverMist said:


> Basically what the title says. If yes, at what point does honesty become toxic, and what factors in to that? If no, explain that as well. No real context, it's just a random thought.


toxic honesty is truth without kindness or necessity


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

Toxic honesty will bring you down, instead of helping you to grow or learn.



nablur said:


> toxic honesty is truth without kindness or necessity


Exactly what I had in mind, too.


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## ANAXEL (Feb 16, 2017)

If I were to tell a friend every flashing thought that comes to my head about them, that would be toxic honesty.
They'd be true sentiments, my purest honesty, but they're not necessary and will eventually cease to be.
Even truth that may seem necessary to express, such as "I don't think you should try dating that girl, you don't stand a chance, man", should be revised and reviewed before it comes out.
So it all goes back to the saying: THINK everything you say, DON'T say everything you think.
Thoughtless words, though true, are usually toxic.


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## SilverMist (May 30, 2017)

So is blunt, possibly painful honesty always toxic?


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## Charmian (Dec 28, 2013)

SilverMist said:


> Basically what the title says. If yes, at what point does honesty become toxic, and what factors in to that? If no, explain that as well. No real context, it's just a random thought.


Hi SilverMist, I wonder what situation or context you have in mind? Are you dealing with someone who indulge in saying whatever crosses their mind? Are you wondering if you should tell the truth less? Is someone around you being overly cynical? Do you have someone in your life who is harsh and like to call out faults in others?

I'm asking because "toxic honesty" seems somewhat oxymoronic, and I'm not sure I get what you mean.

I personally dislike pessimistic people who mistakenly believe their despair is more "realistic". That would be for me "toxic negativity" and I know people who would call that "honesty".


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## SilverMist (May 30, 2017)

There isn't really easily explainable context for the question. Also, I was really looking for discussion more than a simple answer. 
As far as my meaning of toxic... I guess I'd define it as honesty that causes another person pain pointlessly. There are a number of ways that could happen. Honesty used for manipulation, verbal abuse under the guise of honesty, harshness?, etc. However, I would think that two people could say exactly the same thing, and one could be harmful and the other helpful. 
Hopefully that makes some sense, I'm tired and words won't obey me and convey my meaning in a satisfactory manner.


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## Charmian (Dec 28, 2013)

SilverMist said:


> As far as my meaning of toxic... I guess I'd define it as honesty that causes another person pain pointlessly. There are a number of ways that could happen. Honesty used for manipulation, verbal abuse under the guise of honesty, harshness?, etc. However, I would think that two people could say exactly the same thing, and one could be harmful and the other helpful.
> Hopefully that makes some sense, I'm tired and words won't obey me and convey my meaning in a satisfactory manner.


OK, I see what you're aiming at!

My thoughts on this, pell-mell:

I tend to agree, toxic truth-telling would either be pointlessly painful or purposefully painful. I think it would be directed mainly towards someone else (calling out someone else's flaws rather that confessing one's own). I've read somewhere friendship defined as the golden mean between the two nasty extremes of flattery and strife. I would think toxic truth-telling, even between friends, would tip it over to the strife extreme. 

In English, there is "honesty is the best policy". In French, there is "toute vérité n'est pas bonne à dire" ("not every truth is fit to be told"). Experience shows that both are true, and what is missing from the picture here, is the idea of the right time, the right circumstances. So, I would amend both with "when the occasion is right, honesty can be the best policy" and "not every truth is fit to be told at any given time".

On another note, I think Machiavelli recommends that the Prince give full freedom of speech to his political advisor specifically when they are in private conference. Inspired by this I'd offer this additional bit: toxic truth-telling might take the form of public truth-telling.

In a word, toxic truth-telling could be either unprompted, hostile, expressed at the wrong time or too public and (therefore humiliating).


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

SilverMist said:


> Basically what the title says. If yes, at what point does honesty become toxic, and what factors in to that? If no, explain that as well. No real context, it's just a random thought.


I'd have to say no. I can't see how honesty would be toxic in anyway. Criticizing people, no matter how honest it may be is criticism, not "honesty". So if you say something critical, you may be being honest, but foremost you would be being critical and that I think is different than just being plain honest. If the criticism is offensive, but true, i wouldn't consider it toxic because it would probably be in the best interest of the person to know the truth no matter how harsh it may be. That leads to the idea of opinions, and honesty when dealing with opinions is a different matter. You could give your honest opinion in a harsh manner, but that wouldn't necessarily be telling the truth, just one's opinion no matter how truthful it is to the person giving it. There I could see toxicity coming into play, but i would like to separate that kind of situation from Honesty being toxic.


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## EccentricSiren (Sep 3, 2013)

I think the intention matters a lot. People can say a lot of hurtful things to each other, things which may be their honest opinion, but if the intention is to just hurt the person, not try to improve a situation, then it becomes toxic.


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## Northern Lights (Mar 25, 2016)

MsBrightside said:


> I'd have to say no. I can't see how honesty would be toxic in anyway. Criticizing people, no matter how honest it may be is criticism, not "honesty". So if you say something critical, you may be being honest, but foremost you would be being critical and that I think is different than just being plain honest. If the criticism is offensive, but true, i wouldn't consider it toxic because it would probably be in the best interest of the person to know the truth no matter how harsh it may be.


So telling the truth isn't toxic if it's criticism, but that isn't toxic if it's true? I dunno, I see a circle :tongue:

Everyone has weaknesses and flaws and secrets (by their own standard); and those would be facts (for them). Now imagine someone with a talent to figure those out, and going around holding the mirror in front of you, constantly, mercilessly, unrelentingly. It's the truth then, not opinions -- and it's not a _comment_ (and thus no criticism), it's a simple statement of a factually true thing -- and precisely because it is, it cuts far deeper than any random insult.

So the key is intention -- truth, like most things, can be used as a weapon, and once you do that, I guess it can qualify as "toxic". Basically, this:


EccentricSiren said:


> I think the intention matters a lot. People can say a lot of hurtful things to each other, things which may be their honest opinion, but if the intention is to just hurt the person, not try to improve a situation, then it becomes toxic.


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

Northern Lights said:


> So telling the truth isn't toxic if it's criticism, but that isn't toxic if it's true? I dunno, I see a circle :tongue:
> 
> Everyone has weaknesses and flaws and secrets (by their own standard); and those would be facts (for them). Now imagine someone with a talent to figure those out, and going around holding the mirror in front of you, constantly, mercilessly, unrelentingly. It's the truth then, not opinions -- and it's not a _comment_ (and thus no criticism), it's a simple statement of a factually true thing -- and precisely because it is, it cuts far deeper than any random insult.
> 
> So the key is intention -- truth, like most things, can be used as a weapon, and once you do that, I guess it can qualify as "toxic". Basically, this:


so what would qualify as toxic truth? say you know someone's husband is cheating on them. i suppose telling them could be toxic truth or not, depending on if they really would have wanted to know. what else? telling someone you think their outfit is hideous isn't really honesty, that's opinion. maybe an honest opinion, but i wouldn't classify that as toxic honesty. if they asked, then they would want your honest opinion. if they didn't ask and you're volunteering the info then still i wouldn't consider it toxic, just honest. what's an example of toxic honesty? 

so maybe i wasn't clear on the criticism. i think that might fit under a different category is all i think i'm saying. just like with opinions. me personally, i think intention doesn't matter when it comes to the truth. truth is the like the highest thing one can grasp. how could it be toxic? first maybe i need to better define toxic - extremely harsh, malicious, or harmful. i can't see how the truth could be any of these, though i have yet to find myself in a situation that would warrant calling it that. i can think of some situations where perhaps a lie was told, and then where the truth being revealed might be toxic. like say a child thinks his dad died when in reality he abandoned them or something. maybe that would be toxic truth. but a lie would have had to have been told first i think. i think what would be toxic in that case wouldn't truly be the honesty but maybe that they were deceived in the first place. idk. just yapping it up today. thinking of that, i think there is something though such as helpful lies.


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## Warp11 (Jul 13, 2016)

A substance is typically considered toxic if, under certain conditions, it has undesirable (i.e. potentially lethal or harmful) consequences upon/within the recipient of that substance. As many chemists (rightfully) believe, toxicity is based on the dose. Too much, too soon and whoops! we killed the poor bastard. Too little, and what good does it actually produce?
But in the right amount, i.e. the Goldilocks zone, said "toxic" substance can have very positive effects. The key is to keep dosing until the recipient has built up a tolerance and can take more "medicine." 

The truth is no different. What? You can't handle it?


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## ponpiri (Apr 30, 2017)

Toxic people, yes; toxic honesty, no.


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## InkMyUmbrella (May 23, 2017)

SilverMist said:


> Basically what the title says. If yes, at what point does honesty become toxic, and what factors in to that? If no, explain that as well. No real context, it's just a random thought.


I'd say by the categorizations provided by the current focus on political correctness, the answer is yes. It's similar to the idea of toxic masculinity, I.e. masculinity to the extreme which makes the person very unhealthy mentally.

Personally, however, I don't find honesty toxic at all. I'd rather know the truths, cold hard truths, even if they hurt me. It's much easier to accept them bitterly, and eventually move on with your life by finding happiness around that issue.


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## Daiz (Jan 4, 2017)

SilverMist said:


> So is blunt, possibly painful honesty always toxic?


I'm going to say not always but usually.

Even if someone thinks what they're saying is helpful, if it's harsh and they don't try to soften it when they deliver it because they think they have some right to dole out "tough love", that's still toxic.


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