# Yet Another Soul Trying to Type Themselves



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

So many people tell me ESFJ, but I'm not convinced. I could share a bunch of answers to previous questionnaires but I'd rather see what questions you come up with. So please help me out because I'm confused.


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## Wellington (Sep 9, 2015)

How do you behave when stressed out, or in a stressful situation? It would be helpful to use a past example in your answer, but it isn't necessary.

Your asking people what their own questions are, as opposed to the standard template, is already giving me an Fe-Ti vibe.


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## INTJake (Oct 1, 2015)

Before I ask you questions, ask me what other types are you considering? Say yes and no to the following:

Considering ENFJ (The Intuitive ESFJ): Y/N
Considering ESTJ (The Thinking ESFJ): Y/N
Considering ESFP (The Shadow ESFJ): Y/N
Considering ISFP (The Mirror ESFJ): Y/N
Considering ISFJ (The Introverted ISFJ): Y/N

I know several ESFJ's, and I also know ESTJ, ESFP, ISFP, and ISFJ. I don't know any ENFJs but I'll do my best to help you find out your ttype.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

ENFJ: N
ESTJ: Y
ESFP: N
ISFP: Y
ISFJ: N

Also:
INFP or INFJ, both Y
I appreciate having your help in this matter.


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## Caraxor (Apr 21, 2015)

Funny how you also include INFP and INFJ. To me they're pretty different to ESFJs. But if you still think you're an INFX, 
I would suggest investigating the cognitive functions. INFJ and INFP are supposedly completely different in the way they behave. I would actually say that an INFJ is more like an INTJ than an INFP and the INFP more like an INTP than an INFJ. Maybe you can see which you associate yourself more with, INTP or INTJ then type accordingly. 
The same would also go for an ISFP vs ESTJ. The characteristics of these two types I have in my mind are completely different. 
Definitely encourage you to read about cognitive functions.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

@Caraxor
It might interest you to know that I have read about cognitive functions. The ones I related to the least were Te, Fi, Ne, and Si. Thus I was between xSTP and xNFJ. However, an alleged INFJ came along and claimed that this was impossible. Therefore, my previous assumptions mean nothing to me anymore.

As to trying to determine if I relate more with INTP or INTJ, by process of elimination I would have to go with INTJ, since Ne seems so forlorn to me.

I forgot to mention it earlier, but I am also considering all the xSTx types (ISTJ, ESTJ, ISTP, ESTP).


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I would suggest you take my Jungian cognitive function tests. Then I can help type you  

Fe vs Fi test 

1.Are you more about people and social connections” (Fe)? Or personal values, authenticity and identity” (Fi)?
2.Do you believe that individual development is important, but social masks are necessary? Masks are ultimately tools. One can convey their true self through moving along with the current than against it (Fe)? Or everyone is entitled to be themselves, free of the nuisance of social convention. Conforming may be better for short term effects, but the ultimate goal is to see individual development (Fi)? 
3.Do you work best with the emotions of others (Fe)? Or work best with your own emotions (Fi)? 
4. Do you notice how you make others feel (Fe)? Or do you notice how others make you feel (Fi)?
5.Do you show your empathy through saying confirming language such as “Oh no,” and “Aw,” (Fe)? Or exposing your own experiences and struggles as a means of letting the other person know they’re not alone? (Fi) 
6.Do you believe in global morals, or/and conform to group morals (Fe)? Or do you believe that everyone is one-of-a-kind and has their own set of values, just as you do yourself (Fi)? 
7.Do you have empathy more on a global level, such as empathy for the human race (Fe)? Or empathy for a group of people you feel your values and experiences are related to (Fi)? 
8.Would you say “I will do what I think is right, because doing otherwise would do harm to others around me (Fe)? Or I will do what I think is right, because doing otherwise would be inauthentic to who I am as a moral person (Fi)? Examples: You are against adultery because “I would hurt the people I love” (Fe) or “It goes against my ethics” (Fi)? You are against illegal downloading because; “I will set a bad moral example” (Fe)? Or because “I am not a thief” (Fi)? 
9.Do you prefer to create an atmosphere of harmony and where everyone is “getting along” (Fe)? Or creating an atmosphere that coincides with your inner values; regardless of whether everyone is ‘feeling alright’ or not (Fi) 
10.In a spat, do you appeal to the whole group in an “everybody settle down” kind of way, apologize and compromise to keep everyone happy (Fe?)? Or stubbornly stick to your guns because someone violated an issue of importance to you, and probably latch onto one individual and either calm them or remove them from the situation in an attempt to neutralize the situation? (Fi)? 
11.At a park, are you more 
Extroverted Feeling (Fe)? You make sure everyone feels involved and has their needs met. Does everyone have a buddy? Nobody should be alone! Let’s go to the bathroom first, okay? How do we feel about hamburgers for lunch? Is that okay? Let’s meet over there, shall we? Does everyone know the plan, so no one is left behind? Let’s take a vote on which direction to go first! Fe will go on a ride it doesn’t like so a friend doesn’t have to do it alone.

Or Introverted Feeling (Fi)? You decide which direction to go based on what is important to you. I’m going on this ride. No, it’s okay, I can go by myself. I don’t need you to come along unless you want to. I’m serious. I’m not afraid to do it alone. I’m not feeling the burgers, either. You all go ahead. I’m going to dash over to that taco stand. Nope, not going on that ride. You can beg all you want, I won’t do it. I’m scared of heights. Not a chance, bud. Drop it.

Te vs Ti test 

1.Are you more about applying logic/organization to your external world (Te) or inner world (Ti)? 
2.Are you more about execution and effective organization (Te)? Or ideas and logical understanding (Ti)? 
3.Are you more about organization for efficiency, by the book, like to make things happen, and systematic (Te)? Or about analyzing everything, taking things apart to know how they work, and checking for accuracy or inconsistencies? (Ti) 
4.You have a gadget in front of you. Do you take the gadget and see what you can do with it? See what results you can achieve with it? Ask how can I make this happen? And what external impact can it cause? (Te) Or do you take apart the gadget to understand the parts or essence of it. Do you ask how does the gadget work? Is this accurate? Is this consistent? (Ti)? 
5.Do you want to USE information (Te) Or UNDERSTAND it (Ti)? 
6.Do you want to figure out how things can get done/results focused (Te)? Or understand how things are and fit together/ knowledge focused (Ti)? 
7.Do you like to come up with a decision and stick with it (Te)? Or always open for new insights and ways to perfect an idea (Ti)? 
8.Do you organize your bookshelf by tallest to shortest books (Te)? Or favorite to least favorite books (Ti)? 
9.Do you focus on organizing things into a unified whole/look at how things relate to one another (Te)? Or focused on separating things into their unique parts and classifying things (Ti)? Example, who are you in this conversation? Hubby (Te) or Wife (Ti) 
Hubby: I want to go to the blue hardware store.
Wife: I want to go to Lowes. 
10.At a park, Are you more 
(Te) busy organizing others and coming up with “battle plans.” Which direction do we go first? Give me the park map. Okay, where do we want to be by noon? When and where do we meet for lunch? Who is in charge of watching the kid? Which rides do what? When is the bus leaving? What do we have time for? How long are the lines? Okay, everyone who wants to go on these twelve rides, line up to the left! Everyone else to the right! We meet back here at 7pm! No stragglers! Does everyone have their phone on? Good! 

Or (Ti)? busy analyzing how the rides work and what makes the most sense. If I go this way, the path winds around past what I want to see, and by the time we’re to meet up, I’ll have been all the way around the park. I won’t have to walk back, or rush from one side of the park to the other. Wait, why are they all walking in the opposite direction? Don’t they know this is the logical way to do it? If you go that way, you’ll engage in needless walking and won’t be able to get through the line in front of the House of Mirrors

Se vs Si test 

1. Do you listen to the same music over and over again because "It's the best music out there?" (Se) or because "I just always have-habit? (Si)? 
2.Do you notice all the details of the present moment? Do you notice all of the tiny details in a painting? (Se)? Or do you notice the present details but compare them to past experiences? (Si) 
3.Do you tend to want immediate gratification and new hands on adventures/experiences (Se)? Or get stuck in an outdated routine, want tradition, are nostalgic, and relive past experiences (Si)? 
3.Are you about being spontaneous (Se) or rules and regulation (Si)? 
4.How do you handle a new situation? Do your senses shift through data and identifies what is the most relevant and most critical in the current situation. Do you seize opportunities as they present themselves? Do you troubleshoot and seek a tactical advantage? (Se) Or do your senses relate the present situation to past experience? Do you ask “how did I handle something like this last time”? Do you evaluate similarities and differences? Do you apply proven techniques to the challenges of the current circumstances? (Si)
5.Do you look for external sensory experiences such as roller coasters, scary movies, race car driving? (Se) Or internal sensory experiences such knowing how your body feels during Yoga or immediately knowing when you are full (Si)? 
6.Do dress with a flair of boldness; have a keen eye for aesthetics, and have an enjoyment for the finer things in life (Se)? Or is your style traditional and conservative? (Si) 
7.Would you say “I can tell that’s a car because it has wheels, it’s moving, it looks like others cars, it’s made by Ford” (Se) or “Cars in my mind are always purple, therefore that moving vehicle is not a car” (Si)? 
8.After a long day at work do you put on a new movie (Se) or a movie you’ve already seen (simply for the familiarity and nostalgia) (Si)? 
9.While in a forest do you notice the rich detail in the whole forest - the trees, their color and texture, their sounds, their smells, the pattern of light and dark... (Se)? Or note that this forest has always been here and recalls being in a forest from childhood, smelling that smell and the fun of playing hide and seek behind the trees... (Si)? 
10.You are at a park. Are you more 
(Se)? You are busy noticing all the details of the park and the people in it. Sights. Sounds. Colors. Oh, cool. That ride flips upside down! I’m going to try that. Do you smell those hotdogs? Aren’t they great? I think we ought to go bungee jumping… it’s only $50 for a group of $12! Which way is the Tower of Terror? I’m going to ride down it and watch all you sissies wet your pants when it drops 50 feet in 12 seconds!

Or (Si)? relates everything around them to past experience. Last time I was here, I threw up on that ride; I’m not going on it again. Oh, hey, that’s the bench I sat on when so-and-so kissed me! Oh, good, the line is shorter this year. Why does this slushy taste different? I think they put less cherry cola in it than before! I feel ripped off. OR… I’ve never been to a theme park before, but that Ferris wheel reminds me of that scene in The Notebook, when Noah won’t take no for an answer, until Allie agrees to go on a date with him…

Ne vs Ni test 

1.While in a forest do you think of the fractal patterns, the wide range of possibilities in the forest, how this forest is part of the ecosystem and is affected by pollution from the city... (Ne) or Recognize that the forest is deeply symbolic of all of life in its interconnectedness and constant recycling and growth and foresees that this forest will soon be torn down for a housing development... (Ni)? 
2.Do you have an explosion of ideas, symbols, and possibilities (Ne)? Or do you find one idea and build on it over time (Ni) 
3.Are you more about possibilities and randomness (Ne)? Or insights and purpose (Ni)? 
4.Is your speech scatterbrained/about multiple topics (Ne) Or more streamlined/ talk about one thing at a time (Ni)? 
5.Do you want to go out and try all of your ideas (Ne)? Or be selective with your ideas (Ni)? 
6.Is your thought process non-linear (Ne) or linear (Ni)? 
7.Do you brainstorm out loud (Ne) or keep ideas to yourself (Ni) 
8.Do you focus on “what if's” or “what could be”? (Ne) Or having an “aha moment” (Ni)? 
9.Do you find broad shallow symbols and patterns (Ne) or deep symbols, and patterns (Ni)? 
10.You are at a park. Are you more 
(Ne) sees the possibilities of the park. Look at those two people. You can tell they’re not “together” anymore, but just hanging out for the kid’s sake. See their body language? How many rides are in this park? Do you think anyone ever died here? I think they should put a new ride in this space. Call it the Haunted House of Horrors, and have Dead Presidents in it. You know, they could put up an entire haunted SECTION of the park. That would be awesome. Who do I call to pitch that idea? Stay away from the guy in the red hat. He gives me vibes. Ooh, you know, I could write a story about a murder in a theme park! He could die because the Tilt a Whirl malfunctioned. No, no, because the Tower of Terror ride didn’t stop, it crashed the elevator to the bottom floor! His sister did it. No, his uncle! No, the theme park guy, because he’s freakin’ insane.

Or (Ni)? You know what will happen before it happens. I’m going to take a step back, because that kid is going to spill his slushy all over – yup, there it goes. I know which ride I want to go on. I’ve thought about it all week. I’m going to have an awesome time on that ride. I’m going there first. Wait, there are other rides? I didn’t even notice! I was busy fixating on getting to the head of the line! Marsha better not go on that thing, she’ll hurl—yep, there she goes.


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## INTJake (Oct 1, 2015)

Army Man said:


> ENFJ: N
> ESTJ: Y
> ESFP: N
> ISFP: Y
> ...


No ESFP and No ISFJ - probably not a dominant sensational
Why would you consider ESTJ? That's so different from ESFJ.

You seem like an ISFP to me, an ISFP that's good at analytics.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I would suggest you take my Jungian cognitive function tests. Then I can help type you
> 
> Fe vs Fi test
> 
> ...


Thank you for your help. You gave so many questions, though, that I did not read all of them. Just didn't seem necessary since I could determine which of the two I use rather quickly. I did identify with Fi/Te, and Si/Ne. Although based on your questions, I think my Ne is weak and can sometimes appear similar to Ni.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Vikinq said:


> No ESFP and No ISFJ - probably not a dominant sensational
> Why would you consider ESTJ? That's so different from ESFJ.
> 
> You seem like an ISFP to me, an ISFP that's good at analytics.


Well, you might be interested to know that an INFP who has been trying to help me sees me as an ISTx, and says they don't see much feelings in me, for what that's worth.
Also, please don't give me any plight about how Feelers aren't necessarily about feelings, but rather ethics and morals. I would feel like you are just contradicting me and trying to prove me wrong, so please don't do that. An INFJ already gave me an eyeful from that type of thing.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Ok. Have you seen this site? It shows you how each function acts in real life in all 4 positions 

Cognitive Functions - Funky MBTI in Fiction


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ok. Have you seen this site? It shows you how each function acts in real life in all 4 positions
> 
> Cognitive Functions - Funky MBTI in Fiction


Yes I have seen that.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

"I did identify with Fi/Te, and Si/Ne. Although based on your questions, I think my Ne is weak and can sometimes appear similar to Ni. "

Hmm, I would say you could be:
ISTJ= Si, Te, Fi, Ne. 

Or an INFP= Fi, Ne, Si, Te. But if your Ne is weak then I would say probably ISTJ. 

This how each function you identified with acts like in real life: 

How Si Acts in all 4 Positions - Funky MBTI in Fiction

How Fi Acts in all 4 Positions - Funky MBTI in Fiction

How Te Acts in all 4 Positions - Funky MBTI in Fiction

How Ne Acts in all 4 Positions - Funky MBTI in Fiction


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> "I did identify with Fi/Te, and Si/Ne. Although based on your questions, I think my Ne is weak and can sometimes appear similar to Ni. "
> 
> Hmm, I would say you could be:
> ISTJ= Si, Te, Fi, Ne.
> ...


Good, I was hoping for ISTJ.


Time to make it official.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Yay! Glad I could help!


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Yay! Glad I could help!


Your help has been very useful, kitty.


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## Coyote (Jan 24, 2012)

Army Man said:


> True, but I'm still unsure about my type. I'm pathetic. I have such a hard time accepting whatever the truth about my type is. Especially because of things I do and the way I am that contradict stereotypes for any type.
> 
> I relate with Si, Fi, and Ni among your introverted function descriptions, and among your extroverted function descriptions I relate with Ne and Se, and a tiny bit with Te.


So ... I'm moving this to your most recent type-me thread. That other one has been horribly derailed. 

Maybe we can finally figure it out to your satisfaction? (And have it last more than a day or two. )

First we need to separate the E-type 9 from your cognitive functions. 

You seem to hate conflict and want to be nice to everyone -- but it's very practical. No sunshine or idealism about how great people are. You're nice so they're nice to you; if they like you, then you benefit in numerous ways. On the flip side, that makes you super-sensitive. If someone does NOT like you, then it has all sorts of terrible consequences. ... I can't tell if people really do think/speak badly of you, or if that's just paranoia. But there does seem to be a problem relating to people ... have you considered 9w8 rather than 9w1 for your E-type?



> Describe your relationship with your parents. Does anything stand out about the way you interacted?
> I'm not even sure if there is any love at all, or just the pretending to love each other. Overall, I feel so alone and misunderstood. My ultimate fantasy or dream is to live by myself either in a submarine or in Siberia. Although I doubt I would have the discipline to learn enough about submarines to know what I would be doing. Similarly, I also doubt I have it in me to survive in Siberia. I would have to be a very hard worker (making a place for myself to live, keeping warm, having edible food, killing animals for food and/or defense, etc. you probably get the idea).


Haha, that was a heck of a tangent.



> Where does the wandering mind take you? What provokes this?
> I have no idea how to answer either of these questions.


See your previous quote. "Wandering mind" may not mean much to you, which makes it likely you're not a Ti- or Fi-dom. But your mind definitely seems tuned to your physical survival. ... Maybe that's also what's triggering all of your people-related fears. Some of us still have the instinct that solitude = death, because we can't survive on our own. (Belief in God can also help ease this fear.)



> - To replace direct experience with concepts : hardly ever
> - To overuse imagination in searching for yourself : frequently more than I care to admit


Can you describe your use of imagination? 



> Either I’m an introvert that hates being alone for too long, or an extrovert that is shy.


Maybe try the original definitions of introvert and extravert.
Extravert: Objective, focused on the external world
Introvert: Subjective, focused on the internal world



> What makes you feel inferior?
> People who are more disciplined and responsible, and also have more knowledge in general. I want to be disciplined and responsible, but I suck at actually being that way.


Do you just want to be like that because you feel it's a more socially valued personality?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

If you're still unsure of your type I suggest taking these:

Big 5 test

Big Five Personality Test

Big 5 test:

Big Five Personality Test

Which movie star am I test:

Big Five Movie Star Test


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Coyote said:


> So ... I'm moving this to your most recent type-me thread. That other one has been horribly derailed.
> 
> Maybe we can finally figure it out to your satisfaction? (And have it last more than a day or two. )
> 
> ...


I don't have a problem relating to people. It's just naturally easier for me to relate if I have some personal experience to compare the other person's experience with. Several roles that Andrew Garfield has played made me cry because I felt as if I was watching a part of myself in his acting. He's so emotional and I really admire that about him.

My imagination leads me to imagine myself as somebody that I want to be in some way, rather than understanding my true self, accepting that, and being that way.

I imagine that 9w8 would be more goal-oriented than I am.

No, I want to be more disciplined because I believe that it opens doors for you in life. I couldn't care less about how much much society values discipline. It matters to me personally.

Based on your descriptions of an Extrovert and an Introvert, it seems that I fluctuate between them both.

Also, I totally agree that the other thread I had was very _de-railed_ since a certain somebody made things difficult for us all. Oh, well... moving on from that.
:tongue:


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> If you're still unsure of your type I suggest taking these:
> 
> Big 5 test
> Big Five Personality Test
> ...


First:

55% openness
42% conscientiousness
28% extroversion
56% agreeableness
41% neuroticism
 All things average except for extroversion, which is low.

Second:

12% extroversion
30% orderliness
32% emotional stability
62% accommodation
66% inquisitiveness
 They say this means RLUAI, which correlates with INFP.
roud: :happy:

Third:

High on Openness
Average on Conscientiousness
Average on Extroversion
Extremely high on Agreeableness
Average on Neuroticism








Andrew Garfield
"What I think makes Spider-Man a better superhero is his compassion and his sensitivity. Being an underdog himself he wants to protect the underdog. He's protecting a part of himself - the five-year-old boy inside that got bullied in the playground." - Andrew Garfield

According to scientific data compiled by the Ph.D.s Dana R. Carney, John T. Jost, Samuel D. Gosling, and Jeff Porter, your scores indicate that you are:

Eccentric, sensitive, and individualistic.
Open, tolerant, and flexible.
Creative, imaginative, and curious.
Complex, nuanced, and open-minded.
Someone with a strong desire for novelty and diversity.
Likely to use fewer pauses in your speech than the average person.
Trustworthy, faithful, and loyal.
Appreciative, forgiving, and kind.
According to Geoffrey Miller, professor of psychology at the University of New Mexico, these slogans are likely to describe your personality and outlook on life:

"Talk nerdy to me."
"A PBS mind in a Fox News world."
"Don't say ironic when you mean coincidental."
"If it fits on a bumper sticker, it's not philosophy."
"Commit random acts of kindness."
"Be tolerant and coexist."
"Anger doesn't solve problems."
According to peer-reviewed studies from Texas AM University (US), Pepperdine University (US), Cambridge University (UK), and Sejong University (Korea), your scores indicate that you are:

More likely than the average person to want your political representatives to negotiate with the representatives of other parties in order to arrive at a workable compromise.
More likely than the average person to have a critical view of the 2003 American invasion of Iraq.
Likely to be more knowledgeable than the average person about political issues.
More likely than the average person to care about the ambience of a hotel where you are staying, and not just its quality and service.
More likely than the average person to buy something unexpected and fun that you stumbled across while shopping.
More likely than the average person to be perceived as likeable, warm, and trusting.
More likely than the average person to benefit from talking your decisions through with others before committing.
More likely than the average person to oppose the use of capital punishment.
More likely than the average person to try and strike up a compromise when making a decision, tending to think of the wishes of others as important alongside your own.
More likely than the average person to return to a chain of hotels or bed and breakfasts that you've used in the past and enjoyed.
roud: :happy:


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

First:
55% openness
42% conscientiousness
28% extroversion
56% agreeableness
41% neuroticism
All things average except for extroversion, which is low." Suggests I, N maybe S, F, P.

Second:
12% extroversion
30% orderliness
32% emotional stability
62% accommodation
66% inquisitiveness
They say this means RLUAI, which correlates with INFP.


Third:
High on Openness
Average on Conscientiousness
Average on Extroversion
Extremely high on Agreeableness
Average on Neuroticism Suggests I or E, N, F, P or J. 

Andrew Garfield is most likely an INFP. 

"What I think makes Spider-Man a better superhero is his compassion and his sensitivity. *Being an underdog *himself he wants to protect the underdog. He's protecting a part of himself - the five-year-old boy inside that got bullied in the playground." - Andrew Garfield.- Pure Fi. 

I think you are either an INFP, ISFP, or ISTJ. 

INFPs generally have the following traits: 
• Strong value systems 
• Warmly interested in people 
• Service-oriented, usually putting the needs of others above their own 
• Loyal and devoted to people and causes 
• Future-oriented 
• Growth-oriented; always want to be growing in a positive direction 
• Creative and inspirational 
• Flexible and laid-back, unless a ruling principle is violated 
• Sensitive and complex 
• Dislike dealing with details and routine work 
• Original and individualistic - "out of the mainstream" 
• Excellent written communication skills 
• Prefer to work alone, and may have problems working on teams 
• Value deep and authentic relationships 
• Want to be seen and appreciated for who they are 

ISFPs generally have the following traits: 
• Keen awareness of their environment 
• Live in the present moment 
• Enjoy a slower pace - they like to take time to savor the present moment 
• Dislike dealing with theory or abstract thought, unless they see a practical application 
• Faithful and loyal to people and ideas which are important to them 
• Individualistic, having no desire to lead or follow 
• Take things seriously, although they frequently appear not to 
• Special bond with children and animals 
• Quiet and reserved, except with people they know extremely well 
• Trusting, sensitive, and kind 
• Service-oriented; they're driven to help others 
• Extremely well-developed appreciation for aesthetic beauty 
• Likely to be original and unconventional 
• Learn best with hands-on training 
• Hate being confined to strict schedules and regimens 
• Need space and freedom to do things their own way 
• Dislike mundane, routine tasks, but will perform them if necessary

ISTJs generally have the following traits: 
• Value tradition, security, and peaceful living 
• Will work long and hard to fulfill duties 
• Can be depended on to follow through on tasks 
• Loyal and faithful 
• Stable, practical and down-to-earth 
• Family-minded 
• Dislike doing things which don't make sense to them 
• Dislike abstract theory, unless they see the practical application 
• Natural leaders 
• Prefer to work alone, but work well in teams when necessary 
• Extremely observant, they take in facts via their senses and store them internally 
• Vast, rich inner store of facts which they rely on to understand problems which they encounter in their lives 
• Profound respect for facts and concrete information 
• Make decisions objectively, applying logic and rational thinking 
• Dislike change, unless they are shown it's benefit in a concrete way 
• Have strong opinions about the way things should be done 
• Appreciate structured, orderly environments 
• Have very high standards for their own behavior and the behavior of others 
• Not naturally in-tune with other people's feelings 
• Able to accomplish almost anything if they put their minds to it 
• Community minded "good citizens"


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> First:
> 55% openness
> 42% conscientiousness
> 28% extroversion
> ...


Well based on this, I relate both with INFP and ISFP but only some of the things about ISTJ.
So I guess that maybe what to do now is figure out whether I have an Fi-Si loop (like INFPs) or an Fi-Ni loop (like ISFPs).


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

ok. Great! Yeah the reason you relate to some ISTJ stuff is because they also use Fi and Te. So let's figure out if you're an INFP or ISFP  

INFP= Fi, Ne, Si, Te.
ISFP= Fi, Se, Ni, Te. 

*This is what an INFP's second and third functions look like in real life:*

[/B]Auxiliary Ne (INXP): Your life has so much potential! I can see many different possibilities for your future! Let me share them with you! There is more than one way to look at this situation. It would be a shame not to talk about them all. That’s a great idea, but what about this? Or this? Or that? Let’s discuss and consider them all. I have an analogy that fits this situation, but you’ll have to hang in there to the end, because at first it will sound random. I promise, it isn’t! Let me paint the big picture for you! Let’s try this, it’s new and it’s crazy but it might work! Yes, I thought you might make that decision / that this would happen. Excuse me, I need to write a story…

Tertiary Si (INXP): I love to revisit things that have given me joy in the past. Going to the same museums, watching the same favorite old movies, and thinking about an old idea is a lot of fun for me. I’d actually rather go to the tea shop again than try out a new hot spot. I find history interesting. Oh, do you want to know everything I learned about Ancient Egypt / the Klingon Conflict? I have all the details right here! I have a box of Star Wars memorabilia in my closet. Oh, I remember that smell… this tastes like my grandmother’s cookies… no, that’s not how “they’re” is spelled. I like familiar things and when I am upset, they comfort me.

*Here is what an ISFP's second and third functions look like in real life:
*
Auxiliary Se (ISXP): I could be doing one of six things right now, and I’m bored just standing here, so let’s go out and do something! I want to go bike riding again this weekend; there’s this gorgeous place in the mountains that you have to see to believe, but it’s a six mile ride so pack your gear. Uh oh, she’s mad. I saw her facial expression change for a second, and that’s never a good sign. I want to try out lots of things, and test my body to see what it can do. I can learn to do this quickly, and then I want to help you learn it. Come with me! Don’t just stand there, we can do this! Right now, I’m chilling in the backyard with a glass of tea and watching the light move through the trees, but later I want to go rock climbing. I can’t wait! It’s going to be awesome! I can trust what I have experienced first-hand.

Tertiary Ni (ISXP): I love the silence. It allows me to think about my future, and what I want to accomplish. I like to come up with new ways of doing or seeing things. Don’t tell anyone, but I like symbolism, archetypes, and mysteries. I find them interesting. I sometimes feel like I know what is going to happen, before it happens… and I’m usually right. I don’t know how I knew that about you; I just did. I can visualize a goal, and won’t stop until I turn it into a reality. I trust my insights more in my creativity than in life, but am learning to use my random moments of foreknowledge to create long-term goals.

*Quotes by INFP celebrities:*

Famous INFPs - CelebrityTypes.com

* Quotes by ISFP celebrities:* 

Famous ISFPs - CelebrityTypes.com

*The unique childhood struggles of the ISFP:*

ISFPs are highly sensitive and easily get hurt feelings as children; yelling, spankings, or criticism of any kind can make them feel very vulnerable and stressed. They want lots of snuggles, cuddles and approval, and if they don’t receive it as children it can make them feel very insecure and sad. However, at heart, like all SPs, ISFPs are optimists, and will try to look at what is positive in their lives.

ISFPs are extremely sensory, and love to touch and feel everything. They also are somewhat impulsive, and rules are easily forgotten. For this reason they can face a lot of discipline and they take that very hard. They also can feel stifled in an environment that is highly structured and rigid; they like to have a low-key lifestyle without a lot of demands on their time.

ISFPs usually love TV and videogames, and find school to often be boring and frustrating. Although they want to please their parents and teachers, they have a tendency to underachieve. They tend to only place importance on the practical and immediate needs, and often feel misunderstood or looked over in school settings. They can also face parents who are less than pleased with their academic performance or their personal pursuits. They may feel that they are never “good enough” to please the people most important to them. ISFPs can be highly intelligent, but learn best in a hands-on, active learning environment.

ISFPs struggle with planning ahead; they live in the moment, like other SPs and are better at being adaptable. For this reason, long detailed projects and tasks are overwhelming for them. Parents of ISFP children could help by breaking down projects for them into workable segments so that they don’t get as overwhelmed.

ISFPs need approval and support growing up; otherwise life is a scary and formidable experience. They care very much what other people think of them, and will often spend a great deal of time choosing the right clothes or brushing their teeth. They want to make a good impression on others, and because they are so sensory by nature, the way they look matters a lot to them. Don’t confuse this with vanity, ISFPs have a great understanding of beauty and like to incorporate that part of their personality into their dress.

ISFPs are very sensitive and will have a hard time dealing with conflict of any kind. When faced with hurt feelings, they may become very dramatic and misread things entirely. They may jump to conclusions and feel like someone hates them who merely disagrees with them. They have a tendency to hold grudges; and can use a lot of help from parents in learning to manage their emotions and not take things so hard.

* The unique childhood struggles of the INFP:*

INFP children are highly sensitive and live life with a certain emotional vulnerability. They are easily hurt by real or perceived insensitivity, and they can become very irrational in response to this. They can feel insecure and as if they are betrayed by those they hold dear. In order to protect themselves, they have a tendency to hold grudges and have a hard time forgiving and forgetting. They are introverted feelers, which means they are very aware of their own feelings; but have a harder time understanding feelings that are foreign to them. For this reason, they can often be hurt by things that weren’t meant to be hurtful at all.

INFP children quickly become bored with routine and a rigid structure. They like to mix work and play, and may often have half-finished projects that are abandoned when something new comes along. They are so drawn to alternative paths of discovery that they can struggle with meeting deadlines for homework and can have a hard time staying on task in school. They can get very frustrated and overwhelmed by a world that naturally is more in tune with a sensor/judger-type mindset.

Because INFPs are so internally focused and thoughtful, they aren’t always very aware of what’s going on around them unless it involves someone or something that is personally meaningful to them. They can frequently forget things like homework, or their backpacks. This may also lend itself to the INFP being somewhat clumsy and awkward. Some INFPs do excel at athletics; but it is usually because they have made this something personally meaningful to them and given it great attention.

INFP children long for harmony and good-will in their family; and will become very distressed if there is conflict. They may cry easily as children, and because they are so private feel very embarrassed by this outward display of emotion. Male INFPs in particular often face scrutiny or bullying for their sensitivity and emotional nature. Parents of INFPs would be wise to encourage their children, and to accept them how they are; let them know their feelings are perfectly normal and that you accept them just how they are.

INFP children are easily distracted, and often have to be reminded to finish things. They are so internally focused that if they’re feeling upset, worried, or have their minds on anything else they may not even hear what’s going on around them. Their feelings are the loudest thing they hear. They care very deeply about others, but can struggle with getting out of their own heads or their own feelings to reach out to others. That said, they are excellent listeners when engaged in one-on-one conversation and can listen intentionally much longer than many of the other types can.

*ISFP:*
•More virtuosic musically
•More physical performers and more likely to be talented dancers
•More oriented towards here-and-now sensory beauty
•More likely to talk about sensory pleasure

*INFP:*
•Usually more about the message than the musicianship
•More likely to talk about human rights in their music
•More likely to write about possibilities than an appreciation for things as they are
•More interested in meaning than pleasure


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> ok. Great! Yeah the reason you relate to some ISTJ stuff is because they also use Fi and Te. So let's figure out if you're an INFP or ISFP
> 
> INFP= Fi, Ne, Si, Te.
> ISFP= Fi, Se, Ni, Te.
> ...


So weird, it hardly even makes any sense to me, but clearly INFP is more like me than ISFP.
@Coyote @Vikinq
I would love to hear from you about this.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

So the INFP resonates with you more than ISFP? makes sense. INFP's and ISTJ's use the same functions but just in a different order.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> So the INFP resonates with you more than ISFP? makes sense. INFP's and ISTJ's use the same functions but just in a different order.


That's true. I still want to know what @Coyote and @Vikinq think about our Q&A.


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## Coyote (Jan 24, 2012)

Army Man said:


> I don't have a problem relating to people. It's just naturally easier for me to relate if I have some personal experience to compare the other person's experience with. Several roles that Andrew Garfield has played made me cry because I felt as if I was watching a part of myself in his acting. He's so emotional and I really admire that about him.


I probably should've said "interacting with" rather than "relating to." It's not a judgment or anything, you just said in several places that people tend to criticize your personality or interpersonal skills. 

Why do you admire his emotionality? Do you feel like you bottle things up, and wish you could express them? Do you feel like it would help you connect with other people? Do you just wish you knew what to do with emotions? Etc.



> My imagination leads me to imagine myself as somebody that I want to be in some way, rather than understanding my true self, accepting that, and being that way.


So your imagination is dedicated to imagining your ideal self? What is your ideal self?



> I imagine that 9w8 would be more goal-oriented than I am.


Not necessarily. It's more about a hard edge. I've seen 8w9 described as "a velvet glove over an iron fist." I like that. Maybe 9w8 is like steel armor over a teddy bear. (FWIW, 9w8 is my own type. I'm not particularly goal-oriented, unless I'm on some idea high.)



> No, I want to be more disciplined because I believe that it opens doors for you in life. I couldn't care less about how much much society values discipline. It matters to me personally.


Practicality, with opening doors. 

Those two concepts, opening doors and societal appreciation, are actually quite related. But you don't see that, which means your Fe isn't strong. As in that other thread, I'm disinclined to think Ti-Fe. Going with Te-Fi for you.



> Based on your descriptions of an Extrovert and an Introvert, it seems that I fluctuate between them both.


Honestly, you seem on the unhealthy side. If we're going Jungian, we could say that you're showing both extraverted and introverted tendencies because your conscious and unconscious are in open opposition. 

You seem like an extravert. Your thoughts and concerns revolve around the outside world. Your insecurities are about how you fit into that world, how you can fix yourself to be more acceptable. ... However, if you're unhealthy, then maybe it's your inferior function that's doing all that. Hard to tell.

What are you like when you're happy? (Not just "This was a fun day" kind of happy, but actually content with life for a decent period of time.)


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Coyote said:


> I probably should've said "interacting with" rather than "relating to." It's not a judgment or anything, you just said in several places that people tend to criticize your personality or interpersonal skills.


Oh, okay.



> Why do you admire his emotionality? Do you feel like you bottle things up, and wish you could express them? Do you feel like it would help you connect with other people? Do you just wish you knew what to do with emotions? Etc.


Because I feel that people who are in tune with their innermost feelings and accept themselves as being emotional are among the best type of people there are.
Yes I wish I could manage my emotions better. I wish I was better at expressing myself. I do feel that it would help me outwardly connect with other people. I feel like I always connect with them internally in my own inner and mystical world.



> So your imagination is dedicated to imagining your ideal self? What is your ideal self?


Yes. My ideal self is somebody that is always in tune with my own deep feelings, self-confident, able to express myself, makes the world a better place for everybody while not drawing too much attention to myself, and has the follow-through to achieve the things I dream of in life, like love.



> Not necessarily. It's more about a hard edge. I've seen 8w9 described as "a velvet glove over an iron fist." I like that. Maybe 9w8 is like steel armor over a teddy bear. (FWIW, 9w8 is my own type. I'm not particularly goal-oriented, unless I'm on some idea high.)


Oh.



> Practicality, with opening doors.


Which indicates some level of Sensing.



> Those two concepts, opening doors and societal appreciation, are actually quite related. But you don't see that, which means your Fe isn't strong. As in that other thread, I'm disinclined to think Ti-Fe. Going with Te-Fi for you.


It's not about society, it's about my own journey and success.



> Honestly, you seem on the unhealthy side. If we're going Jungian, we could say that you're showing both extraverted and introverted tendencies because your conscious and unconscious are in open opposition.
> You seem like an extravert. Your thoughts and concerns revolve around the outside world. Your insecurities are about how you fit into that world, how you can fix yourself to be more acceptable. ... However, if you're unhealthy, then maybe it's your inferior function that's doing all that. Hard to tell.


Typically I'm so quiet, shy, I spend a lot of time alone, and I frequently zone out even when being surrounded by all kinds of things. No offense, but I don't agree that I'm an extrovert. I care more about my inner world than my surroundings.



> What are you like when you're happy? (Not just "This was a fun day" kind of happy, but actually content with life for a decent period of time.)


A lot like The 11th Doctor from _Doctor Who_. Contrary to what some people think, I feel he's an ENTP, not an ENFP. But I digress, I'm very lively and trying to share my happiness with others, trying to get them to understand that I'm happy and why. A little disappointing when they don't but oh well. I don't need their understanding to feel good about myself.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

You stated up there somewhere that after reading all about the functions you identify most strongly with Fi/Te/Si/Ne, in some order. A little further down you stated that after reading some in-depth descriptions of ISFP and INFP, you more strongly identify with INFP. This is totally consistent with those same four functions. You also state, with understanding of what it means, that you don't see yourself as an extrovert but an introvert. So it looks to me like there are two strong options: INFP or ISTJ. Each of these types (at least the ones I know) tend to be a bit more social than many other introverts, so that would fit.

If I can throw in my own two cents, you seem more like an ISTJ than an INFP to me. INFPs have a definite facility in knowing their own feelings and values as well as those of others - overwhelmingly so - and you say you _wish _you had more of that, which would be consistent with Fi in tertiary position (not completely useless, but not your strongest function). Have you looked at the "forms of the inferior function" articles? Seeing if you identify with the descriptions of inferior Te or inferior Ne could help you clarify your type. Reading about how inferior Fe manifests in Ti-doms helped me finally know for sure that I was ISTP and not INFJ.


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## Pinina (Jan 6, 2015)

I'll second what @petitpèlerin said, and add that you said that you thought Ne was pretty weak in you, right?
In that case, ISTJ seems most likely. Also, you asked in the ESTJ-thread if you had to be a P to be lazy, and the answer to that would be that laziness is generally connected to P, but it's also connected to irrationality in socionics, and ISTJ (SLI) would be an irrational type, as their perceiving function comes first after all. 

Which function, of the four, do you enjoy most in other people?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I'll third that. I also still think you are an ISTJ.

*Inferior Te (IXFP):* I know I had that information before, but I’m not sure where it is. I long to be efficient, but I can’t seem to pull it off. I do like organizing my books, though; they have their own system! I don’t like schedules, but they help me stay on track. Oh, this is wrong! I know I’m forgetting something! I should be more organized! I like to be efficient, and try to use my time wisely, and I enjoy having some sense of control over my life and environment.

*Inferior Ne (ISXJ):* I know that these two things are connected, but I’m not sure how. I’m sorry, but that idea is completely unrealistic. Can we stick to one idea, please? Hmm, the last time I thought something might happen, it happened; so maybe I can trust my intuition this time, too.

*Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the INFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ESTJ.* Example characteristics are being very critical and find fault with almost everything, and doing things to excess - e.g.: eating, drinking or exercising. You may become bossy or domineering, ignore others' feelings, and become pedantic about unimportant details. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An INFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognizing it in him/her self.

*Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISTJ's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENFP.* Example characteristics are having a gloomy view of a future, suggesting impractical ideas, acting impulsively, and changing things without any thought. You might also have intense negative feelings towards others, though you might not necessarily express them. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ISTJ may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognizing them in him/her self.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I'll third that. I also still think you are an ISTJ.
> 
> *Inferior Te (IXFP):* I know I had that information before, but I’m not sure where it is. I long to be efficient, but I can’t seem to pull it off. I do like organizing my books, though; they have their own system! I don’t like schedules, but they help me stay on track. Oh, this is wrong! I know I’m forgetting something! I should be more organized! I like to be efficient, and try to use my time wisely, and I enjoy having some sense of control over my life and environment.
> 
> ...


I almost never see others' faults without realizing the same faults in myself. I am very hard on myself, and most people just don't realize that. I believe they misjudge me for it. Of course, if they didn't judge me at all, that would be fantastic. But whether it is spoken or not, everybody judges to some degree.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Pinina said:


> I'll second what: Which function, of the four, do you enjoy most in other people?


Hard to say just one but of all the different types I've known, I really like people with strong Fi best.
People with strong Te usually talk too much and step on people's toes without even noticing or caring that they are doing so. That really bothers me. They should think more about the consequences of their words, actions, and the implications.
People with strong Si usually don't like my new ideas or "let's have fun just for the sake of it" mentality when I'm in the mood.
People with strong Ne usually read between the lines of my words too much and make me feel guilty about some implication I wasn't even aware of. ENFPs are always getting butthurt by me and ENTPs always see me as too close-minded. At least, that's my experience generally so far. There have been great exceptions.

Anyway, that's my take on personalities with my functions in different orders.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Why do you like people with strong Fi best? Do you feel an instant connection with them? Admire their strong moral code? etc.?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Have you tried these two mbti tests before? The first one gives you in between options and the second uses a scale. 

Free Personality Test | Personality Type Test | Find who you are

Personality Type Slider Test

And have you tried this function test?

Cognitive Function Test


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Why do you like people with strong Fi best? Do you feel an instant connection with them? Admire their strong moral code? etc.?


Yes to both. You seem to have gotten the central idea. It's hard to put into words. They seem to be really good at putting themselves in another person's situation emotionally, knowing when it's best to not say anything, accepting all kinds of people as they are, and seeing the good in others. I'm also really drawn towards the idealism of INFPs.



Kitty23 said:


> Have you tried these two mbti tests before? The first one gives you in between options and the second uses a scale.
> 
> Free Personality Test | Personality Type Test | Find who you are
> 
> ...


1) INFP
86% Introverted
68% Intuitive
85% Feeling
82% Perceiving

2) INFP
75% Introverted
70% Intuitive
70% Feeling
45% Perceiving

3) Fi-dom
100% Introverted Feeling
82% Introverted Intuition
74% Extroverted Intuition
66% Introverted Sensation
56% Extroverted Feeling
32% Extroverted Thinking
24% Introverted Thinking
20% Extroverted Sensing


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Yes to both. You seem to have gotten the central idea. It's hard to put into words. They seem to be really good at putting themselves in another person's situation emotionally, knowing when it's best to not say anything, accepting all kinds of people as they are, and seeing the good in others. I'm also really drawn towards the idealism of INFPs.


I know what you mean. I love my INFP friends for the same reasons  It's like they're the more idealist version of myself, in a good way. I love the dreamy quality they can have too. I feel like I'm the down to earth version of INFP's. "They seem to be really good at putting themselves in another person's situation emotionally, knowing when it's best to not say anything, accepting all kinds of people as they are, and seeing the good in others." That part is all me, except the dreamer/idealist part, and it's interesting how ISTJ's and INFP's use the same functions but in a different order. I even thought for a few days I was an INFP because of those strong traits of mine that I always have in common with INFP's. But I am not a dreamer or idealist, I think concrete, and am super organized. Maybe because of the shared functions that's why me and a few others have seen you as ISTJ? Do you feel like the INFP description fits you?

INFPs generally have the following traits: 
• Strong value systems 
• Warmly interested in people 
• Service-oriented, usually putting the needs of others above their own 
• Loyal and devoted to people and causes 
• Future-oriented 
• Growth-oriented; always want to be growing in a positive direction 
• Creative and inspirational 
• Flexible and laid-back, unless a ruling principle is violated 
• Sensitive and complex 
• Dislike dealing with details and routine work 
• Original and individualistic - "out of the mainstream" 
• Excellent written communication skills 
• Prefer to work alone, and may have problems working on teams 
• Value deep and authentic relationships 
• Want to be seen and appreciated for who they are

Wow you got INFP for all three of your test results! All three of those tests said I am an ISTJ. 

Do you know your enneagram type or socionics type?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I know what you mean. I love my INFP friends for the same reasons  It's like they're the more idealist version of myself, in a good way. I love the dreamy quality they can have too. I feel like I'm the down to earth version of INFP's. "They seem to be really good at putting themselves in another person's situation emotionally, knowing when it's best to not say anything, accepting all kinds of people as they are, and seeing the good in others." That part is all me, except the dreamer/idealist part, and it's interesting how ISTJ's and INFP's use the same functions but in a different order. I even thought for a few days I was an INFP because of those strong traits of mine that I always have in common with INFP's. But I am not a dreamer or idealist, I think concrete, and am super organized. Maybe because of the shared functions that's why me and a few others have seen you as ISTJ? Do you feel like the INFP description fits you?
> 
> INFPs generally have the following traits:
> • Strong value systems
> ...


Yep I agree and relate with every item on that bulleted list.
:happy: roud: 

Enneagram: 9w1-6w5-3w4 (Tri-Type)
Somebody else on PerC, despite not being able to successfully help me with my type, nailed down my Enneagram. I feel that their perception and analysis of my Enneagram was very accurate and on-point.

Socionics? *shrug* idk


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

So do you think you are an INFP?

Interesting. There is a saying "If you see yourself in each enneagram type or/and can never decide on which type you are, then most likely you are a type 9." Maybe that saying can somehow correlate to mbti. INFP's are usually either type 9 or 4.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> So do you think you are an INFP?
> 
> Interesting. There is a saying "If you see yourself in each enneagram type or/and can never decide on which type you are, then most likely you are a type 9." Maybe that saying can somehow correlate to mbti. INFP's are usually either type 9 or 4.


It's possible. The closest I've gotten to that thought is "The people who aren't sure how to answer these typology questions and get completely overwhelmed-- {as in, can't even really gauge themselves}-- during the process are likely *IxFP*." There's something about Fi-doms where they can just kinda know who they are but not actually be able to pin it down using the words and concepts of others.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> So do you think you are an INFP?
> 
> Interesting. There is a saying "If you see yourself in each enneagram type or/and can never decide on which type you are, then most likely you are a type 9." Maybe that saying can somehow correlate to mbti. INFP's are usually either type 9 or 4.


Maybe. That would explain this complicated journey I've been on.



Kerik_S said:


> It's possible. The closest I've gotten to that thought is "The people who aren't sure how to answer these typology questions and get completely overwhelmed-- {as in, can't even really gauge themselves}-- during the process are likely *IxFP*." There's something about Fi-doms where they can just kinda know who they are but not actually be able to pin it down using the words and concepts of others.


Oddly enough, that hits a chord of my inner strings.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Why INFP's and INTP's May Struggle to Know Their Personality Type:

Why INFPs & INTPs May Struggle to Know Their Personality Type


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Why INFP's and INTP's May Struggle to Know Their Personality Type:
> 
> Why INFPs & INTPs May Struggle to Know Their Personality Type


No wonder I've been so confused. It's kind of funny that you seem to be, by far, the only one who is steadfastly committed to helping me figure this out. Others have taken long leave of absences, apparently.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I'm glad that helped. I love solving a good mystery. Heck, sometimes I still wonder if I'm really an ISTJ. When I was a kid one of my favorite games was Barbie Detective lol. When I say I'm going to do something, I really do it. When I commit it's 110%. I follow through on everything. I was so committed to class that I still went to school when I should have gone to hospital. I was like I'll see doctor when I don't have class. I've got to keep my perfect attendance lol.


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## Another Lost Cause (Oct 6, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I'm glad that helped. I love solving a good mystery. When I was a kid one of my favorite games was Barbie Detective lol. When I say I'm going to do something, I really do it. When I commit it's 110%. I follow through on everything. I was so committed to class that I still went to school when I should have gone to hospital. I was like I'll see doctor when I don't have class. I've got to keep my perfect attendance lol.


I'm curious about the nature of the crimes in Barbie Detective.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Another Lost Cause 

"Detective Barbie: In the Mystery of the Carnival Caper
Barbie is no longer just a pretty face. She can do any and everything, and to prove it, she and her good friend Becky have just completed a training course at ? Detective Academy? The newly credentialed gumshoes immediately stumble upon a crime that Barbie calls ?The Mystery of the Carnival Caper? Despite their excellent crime stopping abilities, the girls need help from the newest junior detective–guess who?

The fall carnival has come to town, and Barbies pal Ken is in charge of the finances — money which will be donated to charity. But when he volunteers to help the magician with her disappearing act, he disappears for good — along with the charity money. Barbie and her partners must search the carnival for clues that might lead them to find Ken, the missing money and the person responsible for their inopportune departure."
lol I still remember chasing/trying to capture the criminal down the carnival slides and well almost everything else.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

@Another Lost Cause @Kitty23
Well we've certainly digressed plenty, haven't we?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Sometimes digressing is fun. But I don't usually see it as digressing. It's still all connected for me. Sorry if it wasn't for you  Maybe my Ne is stronger than I previously thought


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Sometimes digressing is fun. But I don't usually see it as digressing. It's still all connected for me. Sorry if it wasn't for you  Maybe my Ne is stronger than I previously thought


LOL sure, okay.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Or maybe not...


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## Pinina (Jan 6, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I'm glad that helped. I love solving a good mystery. Heck, sometimes I still wonder if I'm really an ISTJ. When I was a kid one of my favorite games was Barbie Detective lol. When I say I'm going to do something, I really do it. When I commit it's 110%. I follow through on everything. I was so committed to class that I still went to school when I should have gone to hospital. I was like I'll see doctor when I don't have class. I've got to keep my perfect attendance lol.


That all sounds pretty ISTJ-ish?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Pinina Thanks! From what I've heard, STJ's types love editing papers/correcting grammar. I know I do. It gives me great joy. Do you think liking that sort of thing is common for STJ's? 

I think I question my type more too cause I don't personally know any other ISTJ's and well the internet stereotypes them pretty bad. Although, I think one of my favorite professors was an ESTJ cause me and her were pretty similar. Plus, if I solved the mystery of myself...then the mystery is over. But oh well, trying to help others type themselves and anything to do with personality psychology is fun and usually involves a good mystery.


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## Pinina (Jan 6, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> @Pinina Thanks! From what I've heard, STJ's types love editing papers/correcting grammar. I know I do. It gives me great joy. Do you think liking that sort of thing is common for STJ's?
> 
> I think I question my type more too cause I don't personally know any other ISTJ's and well the internet stereotypes them pretty bad. Although, I think one of my favorite professors was an ESTJ cause me and her were pretty similar. Plus, if I solved the mystery of myself...then the mystery is over. But oh well, trying to help others type themselves and anything to do with personality psychology is fun and usually involves a good mystery.


If you wanna solve the mystery, just create a thread and mention me in it! 

Uh, maybe... I wouldn't say I love it, but then again, I might not be the most typical ESTJ. It's surely a stereotype for STJs, and it might be true. Why don't you throw it out in the xSTJ-forums?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Pinina 



> If you wanna solve the mystery, just create a thread and mention me in it!
> 
> Uh, maybe... I wouldn't say I love it, but then again, I might not be the most typical ESTJ. It's surely a stereotype for STJs, and it might be true. Why don't you throw it out in the xSTJ-forums?


Haha I think I will soon. Good idea, I will do that.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Boo, this is supposed to be about me
:tongue:


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## The Dude (May 20, 2010)

Army Man said:


> So many people tell me ESFJ, but I'm not convinced. I could share a bunch of answers to previous questionnaires but I'd rather see what questions you come up with. So please help me out because I'm confused.


1. Chill out. 
2. Outside opinion is huge, especially from people know you well. Think about why they would say you're an ESFJ. I was originally typed as an ISTP, which I denied and began a long self guided journey which pointed towards one of the NP types and both INJ types until I realized I am in a stage of development where the tertiary function (Ni in my case) becomes a lot more noticeable and N pops up more often on tests. Off topic, but a poor understanding of function development is why people think their type changes. It doesn't. People just begin to utilize different functions as they age. 
3. While there are tests (which are very gimmicky), the general nature of analytical psychology is based on reflection. Look at each stage of your life to this point. I also think getting into Interaction Styles and the Eight Function Model could possibly make things easier for you and anybody else looking to find their type.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

The Dude said:


> 1. Chill out.
> 2. Outside opinion is huge, especially from people know you well. Think about why they would say you're an ESFJ. I was originally typed as an ISTP, which I denied and began a long self guided journey which pointed towards one of the NP types and both INJ types until I realized I am in a stage of development where the tertiary function (Ni in my case) becomes a lot more noticeable and N pops up more often on tests. Off topic, but a poor understanding of function development is why people think their type changes. It doesn't. People just begin to utilize different functions as they age.
> 3. While there are tests (which are very gimmicky), the general nature of analytical psychology is based on reflection. Look at each stage of your life to this point. I also think getting into Interaction Styles and the Eight Function Model could possibly make things easier for you and anybody else looking to find their type.


1. Okay
:tongue:
2. It was mostly from people on PerC. If I'm an INFP, as others have been saying lately on this thread, then Si is my tertiary function and I could be developing it so much it seems to mask my Ne. Maybe, anyway. People who know me IRL say I'm very sensitive, hard to get to know, believe that people are essentially good, complicated, and unrealistic. These are generalizations but have been said about me a lot by the same people. This all would lend credibility to the NF temperament in general. My own knowledge of myself leads me to believe that I'm an introvert.
3. When I first delved into MBTI, I typed as INFP, and have gotten that result the most common of all types by a landslide. Maybe that is the truth for me after all.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Army Man 

Ok. It's about you again  Do you know any INFP's in person? Do you see any differences between you and them?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> @Army Man
> 
> Ok. It's about you again  Do you know any INFP's in person? Do you see any differences between you and them?


Sadly, no. I have never met anybody who has typed as an INFP.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Oh I see. I might have asked you this already but what fictional characters do you relate to?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

As far as I remember, I don't think you ever asked me that. That's a tough one.
This is going to put me in a box for sure but I almost never see a character that I can really relate to at my core being.
Of all the fictional characters I am familiar with though, I would once again have to give all credence to Andrew Garfield's roles: Peter Parker, the main character of _Boy A_, and Tommy in _Never Let Me Go_. I also read the novels of the last two that the movies were based on, and they were very heart-felt works.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

That reminds me... I know this is a lot of info...after you read it, do you relate to Fe or Fi? 

Fe- wants to end slavery because they absorb the slaves emotions of pain and suffering. It's not based on ethics. It's based on feeling others emotions. 

Fi- wants to end slavery because slavery goes against their values. Slavery is simply "wrong." They use a moral code. 

Fe- is against adultery because it will hurt my loved ones. They feel the pain their going to cause to others. 

Fi- is against adultery because it goes against their moral code. Their heart says "This is wrong." 

Both Fi and Fe are very empathetic, but approach empathy in two different ways. They both feel other's suffering but their tactics are different. Fi user's put themselves in those person's shoes. When empathizing a Fi user will relate by speaking of their own similar struggle. Fe users absorb the person's raw emotions. When empathizing the Fe user will say "Oh no," and "Aww." 

Fe one big motivation= feeling/absorbing other's emotions
Fi one big motivation= following their own ethics

Fe= your emotions are external based- generally come off as bubbly, more touch feeler types (mainly dominant Fe) They feel emotions on more of a broad scale. They absorb others emotions without even having to step in their shoes. Ex. man walks in a bar and starts to feel angry. He turns around and sees theirs an angry man near him that he didn't even notice. So the man absorbed the other man's anger. This can lead the Fe user to question what they themselves are feeling. Their goal is have their group conform to one set of morals, to keep the peace. Fe users are more in tune with others emotions. 

Fi= emotions are internal based- can come across as cold or aloof at first. They feel their own emotions very deeply. If you asked a Fi user what they were feeling they would be able to tell you. Their goal is let everyone be their authentic selves and express their values even if it means losing group harmony. But since Fi users do like harmony they will try and calm down the one person in the group who is upset rather than saying "Everybody settle down. (Fe)" Fi users are strongly in tune with their own emotions. 

Fi
• Focuses on their subjective experience of emotions, their own likes and dislikes, and how these things form their moral code
• Would rather point out instances of injustice and immorality than stay quite and fake collective harmony
• Desires authenticity, justice, being in touch with themselves and in line with their values
• Is motivated by a desire to stay true to their values, develop their unique depth and perspective
• Appreciates being told that they are authentic, unique, deep-feeling, genuine, caring
• Conflict with cold-hearted objective logic, being a “cog in a machine”, insensitively and assertively telling others what to do
• May be criticized for being selfish, unconcerned with others, overly sensitive, thin-skinned

Fe
• Focuses on others’ wellbeing/harmony, societal guidelines for morality, and how these things form their collective moral code
• Would rather maintain collective harmony and look for ways for everyone to compromise and agree than incite disagreement
• Desires harmony, agreement, community, kindness, supporting/helping others
• Is motivated by a desire to help others, make meaningful connections and relationships, feel accepted and appreciated
• Appreciates being told that they are appreciated, well-liked, kind, helpful, supportive, compassionate
• Conflict with blunt and uncaring criticisms, not considering others, rudeness
• May be criticized for being fake, manipulative, changing their morals to fit the situation

Fe is extroverted feeling. Someone who has an Fe can be easily influenced by the emotions of others. Much like a mirror. 

Fi is introverted feeling. Someone who has an Fi can be easily influenced by the moral implications of the persons. People with strong Fi are not easily swayed by emotions of others. For example, when everybody is crying while watching a movie, is someone with a strong Fi would cry if he/she found something that makes him/her cry based on their moral implications.

"The moment you say that you don't care about harmony and you care about how you feel more then it's Fi over Fe." 

"I do tend to have a "I don't do this and that because I believe it is wrong" more.-Fi 

Do you make artwork/creative work with the intention of sharing with others and want to feel their happiness/approval (Fe) or make creative stuff simply for yourself (Fi)? 

*I think this part will really help: *

"Dr. Phil is an ESTJ-Te-Fi. If you want classic hard-knocks Te-telling-people-off, go watch some of his interview clips on YouTube. This one is the first one I ran across, and it’s hilarious how he responds… total Te. THESE ARE THE FACTS. Here is another clip where he asserts just who is boss, whose show it is, what they are going to talk about, and where he stands with a guest. 

Oprah is a Fe-dom (likely ESFJ-Fe-Ti, though she’s typed ENFJ a lot online). I tried to find the James Frey original interview with Oprah where she really nailed him (as she puts it, she was attacking him not only for herself, but “the millions of people who read your book and thought it was real”) but I can’t seem to locate it. Boo. But here’s a quick clip with Lindsay Lohan where she lays down the Fe. Basically, cut your BS, get your act together, etc. But it also comes with Fe: you’re better than this, I know you can do it, you have a good heart." 

"Firstly, Fe-users are more expressive emotionally and “invested in the object,” unable to detach from it and therefore more likely to be touched by it and cry. He includes himself in this, since even as a child (and still as an adult) he tended to cry far more often than his INFP friend, who never cried. His wife, an ENFP-Fi, also rarely cries. Inward emotions. Detached from the situation at hand – sympathetic, but not empathetic in that the sadness of what is happening bleeds into them in the way it does a Fe-user, even a low-order Fe-user.

He does say that he is more Fe than many other INTPs, which just goes to prove that our functions dictate our brain process but not our behavior pattens. Another friend was unconvinced at first that he was an INTP himself due to his highly emotional state as a child. Bottom line is this: NTPs can often be much more externally emotional than INFPs.

Secondly, Fe-users are drawn to emotional arcs in stories. This definitely stood out to me when reading about ENTP childhood development – often, their favorite part of the movie is the most dramatic “reveal.” They will re-watch that scene again and again, and sometimes act it out. (I totally did this as a kid.) This is both due to their analytical interest in emotions and the excitement of feeling the receiving individual emote. This is very true for me. If a story has no deeply emotional arc, I abandon it. Didn’t fall in love with The 10th Kingdom until we found out who the queen was. Where other people say, “Oh my gosh, that’s TERRIBLE to do that to that character!” I go, “Oooh, a chance to explore their emotions through a difficult time!” The big emotional reveal is still my favorite part of any film – and I love to watch other people respond to it too. (I think my ISFJ friend is still slightly mad that I didn’t tell her about the twist at the end of Breaking Dawn Part 2, since I wanted to see her react to all the deaths. Hah!)

Everything I write has some grand, traumatic emotional reveal, ala “I am your father, Luke!” INTP says he’s the same way. But his ENFP wife isn’t like that. Her taste in drama is eclectic and random. We (INTP and I) both approach it from a “what message can we say through this story?” but her stories all have meaning because she’s writing them. No intended theme, no real goal, their writing just happens naturally. (Again, unlike mine. I’m always challenging moral concepts and asking my characters to overcome emotional roadblocks, because I find it fascinating to help them work through their feelings… Ti-Fe?)"

Thirdly, Ne and Fe like to share their interests with others. NFPs are less this way. Their interests are personal and self-fulfilling so they have no real desire to connect through their interests with others.(I always get very excited when I encounter something new, or learn something new, and want to share it with others. I am devastated and get depressed if I can’t talk about what I love with other people who love it… or if I can talk about it, but only with people who don’t seek an objective perspective on it. Right now, I’m in a moody slump because none of my friends watch any of the same television shows I do; hence, I have no one to discuss them with. WAH!)

He says, “Fe and Ne … has this need to push it out… to share our interest, which is no small part of the annoying nerd stereotype, which I embody and my NTP cohorts do as well. NFPs do not have this trait…”


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

All of that seems a little excessive but definitely Fi.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Haha ok. Just wanted to see if you REALLY identified with Fi.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

I experienced spirituality via intense Fi twice recently.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

This is a thing about how the weaker functions manifest as fears or aversions or difficulties in processing (though, in Socionics, your weak "main functions" are called Mobilizing and Suggestive rather than Tertiary and Inferior).

In the Quote section below, I've edited the original to tailor it to MBTI (changes in *green*).

* Figuring out dimensionality, weak functions and associated fears.*

　


> _In order to illustrate how *Inferior-strength* progresses through stages to *Dominant-strength*, let's observe them making tea:_
> 
> *Inferior* (experience): Tea? Who said tea? I love tea!!! My mommy used to make me tea. Where’s my mommy? Are you my mommy? *creeps everybody out*
> 
> ...


　

Also, the fears associated with having Tertiary or Inferior anything (meaning, this is what happens when these functions are NOT listed in your four-letter MBTI type-code: An INFJ's Ti and Se are not mentioned, but _inferred_ from the type code)

　


> *List of common fears experienced in **Tertiary and Inferior** functions:
> *
> *Fi*
> 
> ...


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

@Kerik_S
I couldn't help but notice the huge contradiction of Ni:

fear of unpredictability
fear of prediction
How does anybody have both of those going on?
#MindFuck

In any event, though, your accounts of tertiary/inferior Te, Ni, and Si all ring a bell with who I am.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Kerik_S 

Wow, this is so me.



> Fi
> 
> •fear of being rejected, ignored, excluded;
> •fear of meeting disrespect, bullying (humiliation);
> ...


Does this mean my Fi is in tertiary position?


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> @_Kerik_S_
> I couldn't help but notice the huge contradiction of Ni:
> 
> fear of unpredictability
> ...


Hmm, that's rough, because in the Shadow Positions, the ""flipside" of the Tertiary and Inferior functions are also Fear-creating.

Meaning, if Te, Ni and Si are generating certain fears you readily relate to, then Ti, Ne and Se are also generating fears.

Hmm... Well, this knocks T-types out of the water. And means you have an extraverted irrational function.

Meaning xxFP...?

I get sensory for some reason with you. I feel like, with Ne, you would have been able to use all this typology stuff to generate a bunch of conceptual information but you appear to just be overwhelmed by all the possibilities and seeking _other people_ to narrow it down for you rather than working with the brainstorming process in a reliable fashion like someone with Ne would be able to do without getting too confused.

ISFP for now, but you present conflicting information, and I've had people before completely display "different types at different times"

I'm just saying, if taking this single post from you as if it were an isolated piece of information, the information sounds like it's coming from an ISFP. Se-Fi-Te-Ni, putting Te and Ni right where they would generate some pretty conscious fears, and giving you trouble with conflicting information (Ne) and making it really hard for you to use typology and type yourself (Ti).

The "Si" in this case, would be "shadow of auxiliary". And perhaps unconscious, "3-quarters strength" Si is always difficult to evaluate?


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> @_Kerik_S_
> 
> Wow, this is so me.
> 
> Does this mean my Fi is in tertiary position?


Tertiary or Inferior, whichever. Or it means that Fe is in Tertiary or Inferior while Fi is in both unconscious ("Shadow of") Shadow of Teriarty or Shadow of Inferior.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> Hmm, that's rough, because in the Shadow Positions, the ""flipside" of the Tertiary and Inferior functions are also Fear-creating.
> 
> Meaning, if Te, Ni and Si are generating certain fears you readily relate to, then Ti, Ne and Se are also generating fears.
> 
> ...


I suppose that makes a lot more sense than ESFJ or ISTJ. Thank you for not giving up on me, and helping me figure this out.
But supposedly ISFPs are very artistic and have good motor skills. Granted I expect you to give me some theoretical rationale to why that's bologna. I figure it's better to let you know that I expect it instead of just silently keeping you in a box. Anyway, how come I'm so different from the _mainstream_ or _majority_?


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> I suppose that makes a lot more sense than ESFJ or ISTJ. Thank you for not giving up on me, and helping me figure this out. But supposedly ISFPs are very artistic and have good motor skills. Granted I expect you to give me some theoretical rationale to why that's bologna. I figure it's better to let you know that I expect it instead of just silently keeping you in a box.


I don't think the artistic thing is a given for ISFPs. I can't particularly answer why, though. It just seems like artistic ability is available in every type and is probably much more complex.

Motor skills. I feel like Si would have better motor skills since they would have good memory of their movements and how they felt as they were maneuvering.



Army Man said:


> Anyway, how come I'm so different from the mainstream or majority?


I don't know how to answer that because I don't know what you consider "mainstream" and how you're "different" from that mainstream.

9w1 may be a weird type for an xSFx...? I'm not sure.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> I don't think the artistic thing is a given for ISFPs. I can't particularly answer why, though. It just seems like artistic ability is available in every type and is probably much more complex.
> 
> Motor skills. I feel like Si would have better motor skills since they would have good memory of their movements and how they felt as they were maneuvering.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your honesty. I can see what you mean. I don't know to explain that myself. I guess I could be under a false impression of ISFPs in general.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Kerik_S 



> Tertiary or Inferior, whichever. Or it means that Fe is in Tertiary or Inferior while Fi is in both unconscious ("Shadow of") Shadow of Teriarty or Shadow of Inferior.


Huh, so that leaves for me I/ESTJ, I/ENTJ for tertiary/inferior Fi and I/ENTP and I/ESTP for Fi as shadow, right?


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> @_Kerik_S_
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, so that leaves for me I/ESTJ, I/ENTJ for tertiary/inferior Fi and I/ENTP and I/ESTP for Fi as shadow, right?


I guess so. It has to be xxTx, which is really all you just indicated.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Kerik_S 

I'm thinking I am an ISTJ. But could you tell me if this is Si I am using? 

I remember names easily. I remember everyone's names I went to elementary school with. I'll naturally think to myself how did I do something like this last time. If it worked last time then I know this method will work again. Which can sometimes make me get stuck in the "tried and true" method instead of experimenting. But I am not too stuck in my ways. I see the details and big picture easily. I can be defensive about preserving cultures and traditions. More so about preserving cultures though. I'm not a blind follower of traditions. Like I am a feminist so clearly some religious stuff irks me. But let me give you example of how I generally feel about cultures and traditions. I read a book about an African tribe that practices quite a brutal tradition-murder and Europeans were coming in, leading to the eventual extinction of the tribes culture/tradition. My classmates immediately said that the tribe's culture/tradition is so wrong! And I thought that's the tribes tradition, it is their culture, we should respect it. I mean, I thought yes, murder/the tribe's tradition is wrong according to my own ethics system, but looking at the tribe from afar, I respected their culture and traditions. When a culture dies out, for me it is very sad. I naturally respect others' cultures, I even minored in cultural studies in college, and took a more objective/respectful route than some of my other classmates. I also am very observant of my surroundings. Like when me and my mom go to a restaurant I'll look at the waiters name tag and remember it probably for the rest of my life. Whereas my mom won't even look at the name tag or even look at what people wear and I do. She didn't even notice her sister always wears Tommy Hilfiger clothing brand most of the time and said "Who wears Tommy Hilfiger clothing" and her sister looked embarrassed. I said "Mom how did you not notice that your sister wears Tommy Hilfiger clothing basically all of the time?" Me and her are opposite this way.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Army Man 

Did you see this? 

How dominant functions write a novel:

Te: Write an outline with an estimated word count and charted plot points / progression for each subsequent chapter.

Ti: Invent a logically consistent world that makes sense from a narrative point of view, and perhaps go some way in inventing languages along the way.

Fe: Decide what emotional impact you want your novel to have, and find an appropriate way to express difficult themes without alienating the reader.

Fi: Find a theme that resonates with a deep personal belief or experience, and write it mostly for yourself.


Ne: Start writing. After a few chapters you wind up with 45 main characters and subsequent plot lines all running simultaneously. 


Ni: Spend months and even years visualizing every element of your highly conceptual story, then sit down and write it without much revision. 


Se: Emphasis is on impacting sentences and intense experiences for the reader. Sensory details are devoid of emotional sentiment.

Si: Focuses on those archetypes and themes that are significant to you, often supplemented by a vast library of reading experience. Natural sense of plot structure.

Combine these and you can see how writers tap into different functions. Something I have noticed is that N writers often incorporate description to try and ground their story or make it seem more real, whereas sensor writers usually tap into their intuitive functions to branch out into unexplored territories. Feelers might dip into thinking to structure their worlds with logic and/or explore different principles, just as thinkers might explore emotions through their writing. 

Often our lower functions are how we “play” so we access them during writing.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I remember names easily. I remember everyone's names I went to elementary school with.


Memory and Si aren't linked, but if your memory is already good (which has nothing to do with type), the kind of stuff you remember is very swayed by your type. People with shitty memory will remember very little, but what they do remember will be the stuff that's influenced by their type. People with good memory will remember a lot, and what they remember will be mostly stuff influenced by their type anyway.

　


Kitty23 said:


> I'll naturally think to myself how did I do something like this last time. If it worked last time then I know this method will work again. Which can sometimes make me get stuck in the "tried and true" method instead of experimenting.


This sounds like an objective method, meaning it's influenced by an extroverted function. Sounds more like Se or Te.

　


Kitty23 said:


> But I am not too stuck in my ways.


idk what the differerence between Si and Se is in being stuck in your ways or not.

　


Kitty23 said:


> I see the details and big picture easily.


Details within an independent picture is Te.

　


Kitty23 said:


> I can be defensive about preserving cultures and traditions. More so about preserving cultures though. But let me give you example of how I generally feel about cultures and traditions. I read a book about an African tribe that practices quite a brutal tradition-murder and Europeans were coming in, leading to the eventual extinction of the tribes culture/tradition. My classmates immediately said that the tribe's culture/tradition is so wrong! And I thought that's the tribes tradition, it is their culture, we should respect it. I mean, I thought yes, murder/the tribe's tradition is wrong according to my own ethics system, but looking at the tribe from afar, I respected their culture and traditions.When a culture dies out, for me it is very sad. I naturally respect others' cultures, I even minored in cultural studies in college, and took a more objective/respectful route than some of my other classmates.


I can't fathom this as someone with Fe. Culture is a social construct. Ethics over-arc all constructs and tribal murder is still ethically wrong regardless of what culture it occurs in.

This is likely Se and Fi, or Si and Te. Can't tell which.

The respect for cultures in and of itself, and wanting to study it in a "objective manner" seems like Te to me. Outside of the situation, inside the intellect, objectively observing out of a sincere Sensor's Interest in trying to figure out stuff about the culture.

SiTe is seeming like the correct type for you.
Unless Se if stronger in you, since I don't know the difference. In which case, you'd have to be ISFP because you don't seem to value Ti.

ISTJ or ISFP.

　


Kitty23 said:


> I'm not a blind follower of traditions. Like I am a feminist so clearly some religious stuff irks me. I also am very observant of my surroundings. Like when me and my mom go to a restaurant I'll look at the waiters name tag and remember it probably for the rest of my life.


idk, with good memory, that seems like a Se thing but could also be explained by SiTe (maybe).

I don't know how SiTe works. Only NiTe. So, when I think "Gee, this person doesn't sound like a strong-Te-user" it's probably clouded by my lack of SiTe knowledge and the overabundance of NiTe "hunches" I've gotten exposed to over time.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Kerik_S 



> ISTJ or ISFP.


Thank you so much for analyzing that info for me! Interesting those are the two types I connect to the most. Yeah I'm pretty sure I use Te over Ti and Fi over Fe. It's the sensing and intuition part that I question myself the most on. I think I use Ne over Ni. 

Why I think I use Ne: Ne is me saying, “I’m getting indistinct impressions and I think she’s mad at me, so I’m going to dig around more to see if I can get her to say what’s wrong.” I don't trust/am not comfortable with one answer unless I have gone through all of the possibilities. And still, I will get restless after a while with "the absolute" because my mind will come up with new "what if's/ possibilities. I naturally think of several possibilities at once, and say "well it could be this, or this, or this, etc." You always hear me say "You don't know that for sure." I am good at reading people (not sure if this is Ni or Ne?) When I counseled people I know I had a hard time keeping the conversation linear. Like I would kind of go back and forth between topics with the client, which maybe suggests Ne? When group members come up with new ideas I see how they can go wrong instantly, which suggests weak Ne? So I am not sure if I do use Ne, where it is on my function stack. I like connecting the dots and symbolism. For example: I have a coffee mug that I got a few years ago while at Mercy Corps- a place whose goal is to create more secure, productive, and just communities. When I fist got the mug I noticed it felt smooth, cold, silver, its made out of metal... My cup symbolizes my faith in helping others. The black and white flowers painted on the cup represent blooming into a fresh new start. The black lowercase words “be the change” symbolize that anyone can help make a positive change in someone’s life. The images of the birds on mug represent people rising out of their struggles. The different angles of the birds symbolize different strategies of breaking free from poverty. The different outlines of the birds (clean in lines, definable feathers) represent the difficulty of the poverty. The visibility of the bird’s heads, beaks, tails, and certain wings represent how visible a person’s struggles can be.

I am working on a writing a science fiction novel. I focus on lot on character development and didn't have a big plan for all the details of the plot. But before I started it I envisioned how I wanted it to end and knew I wanted it to hold a lot of metaphors. When I started writing the beginning I let the first scene inspire me to write the next. 

I relate somewhat to the ISFP description, but I'm not impulsive. And I hate being thrown into situations where I don't know what's going to happen. Like I wouldn't be very good at improv acting. I knew a ESFP girl. She loved the lime light, being thrown into the unknown, and was emotional, touchy-feely, and very dramatic. I am none of those things. My mom calls me "Mr. Darcy" from Pride and Prejudice (the keira knightly one)but most people say he is an INTJ. Plus idk if my own values are strong enough to make me dominant Fi. I've also heard dominant Fi users are somewhat dreamy, which is not me at all. I like to set clear goals for myself. But I also like to wear bright bold edgy clothing and have an eye for fashion trends...like an ISFP? 

I am also argumentative but in a good way. Like I can see both side to an argument. I even thought about becoming a lawyer. 

I also really like solving mysteries. I like putting all the pieces together to form the big picture/solve the mystery. I love playing Barbie Detective as a kid. I think I would make a good detective. 

But helping people is a passion of mine, and so I want to go into social work. I also love volunteering at the homeless shelter. 

So I am wondering if you have any opinions on how I can figure out for sure if I am an ISTJ or ISFP? I'm thinking ISTJ since ISTJ is closer in description to Mr. Darcy compared to ISFP descriptions.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> @_Kerik_S_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds like SiTeFiNe


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Kerik_S 

Thank you so much for all of your help and your opinion!


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

ur welcom m8


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> @Army Man
> 
> Did you see this?
> 
> ...


Well, this time I don't identify with the Ne here, so going with Fi-Se-Ni-Te in that order because I have very little organization to my writing. Once I get started, it's hard for me to finish. I wish I were better at explaining things in words. That's why I'm at college though.
:happy:


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Well, this time I don't identify with the Ne here, so going with Fi-Se-Ni-Te in that order because I have very little organization to my writing. Once I get started, it's hard for me to finish. I wish I were better at explaining things in words. That's why I'm at college though


.

Glad, that brought some new insight. So it sounds like you might be thinking about if you're an ISFP or not?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> .
> 
> Glad, that brought some new insight. So it sounds like you might be thinking about if you're an ISFP or not?


Yeah, although it's not really a question anymore. There's not much else left. Definitely not an ESFP or any xNTJ (since they share functions).


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Yeah, although it's not really a question anymore. There's not much else left. Definitely not an ESFP or any xNTJ (since they share functions).


Do you feel like the ISFP description fits you? Do you personally know any ISFP's? I know 2.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Do you feel like the ISFP description fits you? Do you personally know any ISFP's? I know 2.


Somewhat the description fits me.
I hardly ever bring up MBTI around anybody in person since I feel like it would be kind of weird to talk about, and I wouldn't know how to make it sound cool, even though I really like it.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Somewhat the description fits me.
> I hardly ever bring up MBTI around anybody in person since I feel like it would be kind of weird to talk about, and I wouldn't know how to make it sound cool, even though I really like it.


What fits and what doesn't' fit? My INFP and INFJ friends like this kind of stuff but my sensor friends not so much.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> What fits and what doesn't' fit? My INFP and INFJ friends like this kind of stuff but my sensor friends not so much.


Sorry but I don't know how to answer that. It's a little vague.
I can only think of two friends I've discussed MBTI with, and they are an ENFJ and an INTP. The former, the ENFJ, is a childhood friend of mine and I hope to marry somebody with a personality just like theirs.
There was an INTJ I used to be friends with and we discussed MBTI very frequently, but they insulted me on Facebook and I put them out of my life. I have never been mean to them, and I was only trying to help them with a question they had. They have hurt me before. I can only take so much pain from anybody. Anyway, that's why I put them away. I imagined I would have regret and feel guilty about it, but I actually felt great afterwards. I won't have to worry about them hurting me again.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

You want to marry an ENFJ...the ENFJ's natural partner is either the INFP or ISFP.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> You want to marry an ENFJ...the ENFJ's natural partner is either the INFP or ISFP.


But we already knew that. We're trying to find out which of the two is me.
:tongue:


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Haha true. INFP= Fi, Ne, Si, Te. ISFP= Fi, Se, Ni, Te. So we actually need to figure out if you use Ne or Ni and Si or Se. 

Se vs Si

Myers & Briggs â€¢ Se: What Is Si: What was Ne: What could be Ni:...

Myers & Briggs â€¢ Se=â€œwhat isâ€� Si=â€œwhat wasâ€� Ne=â€œwhat could beâ€� ...

Question on Se vs. Si - Usually it's like, Se is... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

https://www.tumblr.com/search/si vs se

Ne-Si vs. Ni-Se: Myers-Briggs Function Pairs

Extraverted Sensing (Se) vs. Introverted Sensing (Si)

Ne vs Ni

Inside the Mind of the MBTI Maniac: Ne Brainstorming vs Ni Forecasting

There are two kinds of intuitives, which are... - Funky MBTI in Fiction

Extraverted Intuition (Ne) vs. Introverted Intuition (Ni)

Say you're going on vacation. Do you want somewhat of a plan or just discover as you go?

Do you go to the same vacation spot each year? or do you want to go to a new place each year?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Haha true. INFP= Fi, Ne, Si, Te. ISFP= Fi, Se, Ni, Te. So we actually need to figure out if you use Ne or Ni and Si or Se.
> 
> Se vs Si
> 
> ...


*
I looked at the links, but I don't feel like they helped much.
Vacation: somewhat of a plan, new places and revisit some of them if I liked it there*


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Darn. How spontaneous do you consider yourself? And how reserved and conservative do you consider yourself?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Darn. How spontaneous do you consider yourself? And how reserved and conservative do you consider yourself?


*
Spontaneous: I come across more than I am inside. I like things to be predictable, but I can get over myself soon enough if there's no plan and just go with the flow.
Reserved: a lot, I don't like to talk much and it's difficult for me to use talk about anything with anyone most of the time, although I find it easiest to talk with Fe-doms.
Conservative: somewhat, idk why but sometimes I say things that sound ultra-conservative but inside I don't really feel that way about it. I do wish that church and state were still connected, though.
*


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Spontaneous: I come across more than I am inside. I like things to be predictable, but I can get over myself soon enough if there's no plan and just go with the flow.
> •Reserved: a lot, I don't like to talk much and it's difficult for me to use talk about anything with anyone most of the time, although I find it easiest to talk with Fe-doms.
> •Conservative: somewhat, idk why but sometimes I say things that sound ultra-conservative but inside I don't really feel that way about it. I do wish that church and state were still connected, though.


Hmm that info makes me think you use Si over Se.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Hmm that info makes me think you use Si over Se.


*
On that note, music about people participating in all kinds of physical sensations (like songs by Katy Perry) disgust me at my core. Every time I see somebody smoking, and especially if I smell it, reminds me why I don't smoke myself.*


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> On that note, music about people participating in all kinds of physical sensations (like songs by Katy Perry) disgust me at my core. Every time I see somebody smoking, and especially if I smell it, reminds me why I don't smoke myself.


Why do songs about physical sensations disgust you?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Why do songs about physical sensations disgust you?


*I feel like people should think about it first, not just do it.*


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I feel like people should think about it first, not just do it.


Ahh, so is it the impulsivity that disgusts you?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ahh, so is it the impulsivity that disgusts you?


*Yeah because I feel like more often than not, being impulsive can have really bad consequences, on so many levels, for everybody involved.
I'm the perfect example: I should be studying and here I am trying to understand myself in this concept called MBTI.
:tongue:
I also feel like most people act impulsively because they have conformed to how society has told them to live, and they did not hold fast to their own convictions of what they feel is right. This makes me sad, disappointed, and frustrated with such conformists. I guess all of this is pretty judgmental of me to say, though, right?
*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *Yeah because I feel like more often than not, being impulsive can have really bad consequences, on so many levels, for everybody involved.
> I'm the perfect example: I should be studying and here I am trying to understand myself in this concept called MBTI.
> :tongue:
> I also feel like most people act impulsively because they have conformed to how society has told them to live, and they did not hold fast to their own convictions of what they feel is right. This makes me sad, disappointed, and frustrated with such conformists. I guess all of this is pretty judgmental of me to say, though, right?
> *


_*Which functions would you place in each of these "slots"?*_

_*Trickster:*_ Another way to respond to being controlled is to set double-binding traps. If you intimidate a child, you get to deal with the Witch, _as well as_ the Trickster process. Usually a significant part of someone's humor is about this process. We often distrust others when they are using this process, though.

_*Opposing Personality:*_ This is usually the first process to jump in and defend us. If we are articulating our mission in response to an insult, it is this process that we use. When you hear remarks from someone who's dominant process is _your_ Opposing Personality process, you often "blow it off before it even registers" ("in one ear, out the other"). When someone is using this process a lot, we get frustrated and think "This is so dumb/pointless".

_*Witch:*_ One aspect of the auxiliary process is that it is very good at taking care of other people, but not very helpful for taking care of yourself. If someone is taking advantage of this lacking in the auxiliary function, or if we are feeling stuck or powerless in any way, one solution is to "tie down" others so that they don't get in our way. The Witch process accomplishes this by being viciously critical of others, demoralizing them and stopping them in their tracks. When we see this process in someone else, we might interpret everything they say as criticism. 

*Demon:* This is the most amoral of all the cognitive processes in our head. Often our most painful/traumatizing experiences in life involve this process. This process is often an empty vessel where society pours its influence (meaning, your use of it conforms). Long lasting hatreds also reside here, from pain. Most of your uses of this process are either awkward and painful, or come across to others as completely phony and banal. If two people trigger the Demon process in each other, they often bring out the worst in each other.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> _*Which functions would you place in each of these "slots"?*_
> 
> _*Trickster:*_ Another way to respond to being controlled is to set double-binding traps. If you intimidate a child, you get to deal with the Witch, _as well as_ the Trickster process. Usually a significant part of someone's humor is about this process. We often distrust others when they are using this process, though.
> 
> ...


*Trickster: Ne
Opposing Personality: Te
Witch: Fi
Demon: Se/Si (not sure which)

This wasn't easy since I can see all of that working potentially in any given function of any given person, but hopefully I answered it accurately anyway.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *Trickster: Ne
> Opposing Personality: Te
> Witch: Fi
> Demon: Se/Si (not sure which)
> ...


These were shadow functions.

Trickster = opposite of Tertiary.

_*Tertiary = Ni*_

Opposing Personality = opposite of Dominant

*Dominant = Ti*

Witch = opposite of Auxiliary

*Auxiliary = Fe*

Demon = opposite of Inferior

*Inferior = Se/Si*


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> These were shadow functions.
> 
> Trickster = opposite of Tertiary.
> 
> ...


*Ooh, hidden information. But it's impossible for a person's first two functions to be Ti and Fe, if one is dominant then the other is inferior.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *Ooh, hidden information. But it's impossible for a person's first two functions to be Ti and Fe, if one is dominant then the other is inferior.*


I'm simply saying you're incredibly difficult to type


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> I'm simply saying you're incredibly difficult to type


*LOL yep, sad but true. Think how I feel about that. Well, actually, I like the idea of being a person that is hard to figure out. The way I see it, if you really like me, you'll take the effort to really try.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *LOL yep, sad but true. Think how I feel about that. Well, actually, I like the idea of being a person that is hard to figure out. The way I see it, if you really like me, you'll take the effort to really try.*


I can really only resort to vibes. My Ti stuff (typological strategies) wasn't doing the trick, and my Fe stuff (comparing to others) hasn't been shedding much light. All I can do is go by hunch (Ni).

In alphabetical order, with a 0-10 as far as strength of hunch (0 weakest, 5 hard-to-tell, 10 strongest):

ENFJ: 4
ENFP: 0
ENTJ: 3
ENTP: 1
ESFJ: 6
ESFP: 7
ESTJ: 5
ESTP: 6
INFJ: 1
INFP: 4
INTJ: 0
INTP: 5
ISFJ: 7
ISFP: 6
ISTJ: 7
ISTP: 5


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> I can really only resort to vibes. My Ti stuff (typological strategies) wasn't doing the trick, and my Fe stuff (comparing to others) hasn't been shedding much light. All I can do is go by hunch (Ni).
> 
> In alphabetical order, with a 0-10 as far as strength of hunch (0 weakest, 5 hard-to-tell, 10 strongest):
> 
> ...


*So in order of how strong your hunches are for each:
7: ESFP, ISFJ, ISTJ
6: ESFJ, ESTP, ISFP
5: ESTJ, INTP, ISTP
4: ENFJ, INFP
3: ENTJ
1: ENTP, INFJ
0: ENFP, INTJ

But then we must consider that your perspective is singular, and may not be entirely accurate. I am not saying that I am not grateful for your help in this endeavor, only wishing to get others to say what they think about this.
Personally, I'm not feeling ISFJ. The ones I've known don't really get along very well with me, at least not most of the time.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *So in order of how strong your hunches are for each:
> 
> 7: ESFP, ISFJ, ISTJ
> 6: ESFJ, ESTP, ISFP
> ...


Differences within type can be explained by Enneagram. Find out what the most common Enneatypes are for any type you are attempting to identify as, and see if that explains the dissonance between you and others of that type.

For instance, I've been having trouble recently with some INFJs on the forum. My Enneatype is very much not-very-represented in PerC INFJs.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> Differences within type can be explained by Enneagram. Find out what the most common Enneatypes are for any type you are attempting to identify as, and see if that explains the dissonance between you and others of that type.
> 
> For instance, I've been having trouble recently with some INFJs on the forum. My Enneatype is very much not-very-represented in PerC INFJs.


*Well that's certainly something to consider. I understand the feeling, and for what it's worth, I'm sorry about your disconnect with other INFJs.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *Well that's certainly something to consider. I understand the feeling, and for what it's worth, I'm sorry about your disconnect with other INFJs.*


It's whatever. The only antipathy seems to be between me and... maybe Type 6 INFJs. 6w5s are the most common PerC INFJs though, and I get the feeling that they take that for granted and conflate 6w5-ness with INFJ-ness.

It creates an overly-homogeneous subforum that seems to react poorly to different Enneatypes.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> It's whatever. The only antipathy seems to be between me and... maybe Type 6 INFJs. 6w5s are the most common PerC INFJs though, and I get the feeling that they take that for granted and conflate 6w5-ness with INFJ-ness.
> 
> It creates an overly-homogeneous subforum that seems to react poorly to different Enneatypes.


*That doesn't sound right. They just don't see things the way you do, probably, and vice versa.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *That doesn't sound right. They just don't see things the way you do, probably, and vice versa.*


I don't like the notion that just because they're being closed-minded must automatically mean I'm closed-minded for speaking up against them.

I do see where they're coming from: I just don't agree with it and think it creates unnecessary ostracization.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> I don't like the notion that just because they're being closed-minded must automatically mean I'm closed-minded for speaking up against them.
> 
> I do see where they're coming from: I just don't agree with it and think it creates unnecessary ostracization.


*I meant it's not right of them. Sorry for that little misunderstanding.

@Kerik_S
Also, feel free to view any of my YouTube videos. I tried uploading them to PerC, but it didn't work.
Some say that watching a person helps type them. Maybe that would work for you.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *I meant it's not right of them. Sorry for that little misunderstanding.
> 
> @Kerik_S
> Also, feel free to view any of my YouTube videos. I tried uploading them to PerC, but it didn't work.
> Some say that watching a person helps type them. Maybe that would work for you.*


Your choice of banner for your YouTube (the Kremlin) is striking me as Sensory. It's a very static reference-- a still-life.

The way you went into explaining why you didn't appreciate _Mouse Hunt_ seems kinda Fi.

Focusing on the house being destroyed, in terms of it being "a shame that it was a nice house" seems like a Se focus. In movies, there's a lot of subtext, and intuitive functions tend to go right to the subtext.

Relating to-- but, moreso, the fact that it came up and seemed important to talk about (important enough to mention)-- the sentiment of the dad not being appreciative, is more Fi.

The whole Mouse Hunt video was leaving a Fi and Se taste in my mouth, and I'm not just saying that because ISFP is one of the choices you have as a possibility.

Judging other people: "They didn't have any shirt, or shoes, or socks" ---Se
Equals lazy, irresponsible, no respect (as a thought being triggered by the sight of them improperly dressed) -- Fi
"Slouching" -- Se
More important things to be doing = "Chairs need to be fixed, kitchen needs organized; they should get dressed."-- Se

A lot of Se so far, prolonged Se.

In MBTI, you probably shouldn't list as an extroverted type if you're not an extrovert, but in Socionics, you may be an Extra_tim_:

That means, technically, an extroverted_ function_ is at the top of your usage-- It doesn't mean you are an extrovert in terms of whether people drain your energy.

I'm getting Se as your lead in Socionics. The leading function accepts information (Se was taking in information about their appearance and the room around them), and the creative, second function generates information (Fi was making calls about their disposition).

Many people on PerC list themselves as the MBTI with the _dichotomies _that makes the most sense for them (I get introverted, sensory, feeling from you so far)....

.... and then, for their _Sociotype_, they will often list the "extroverted equivalent" (SeFi as opposed to FiSe).

　
Doing something like that, with whatever type you settle on, may help PerC users understand that you're a bit of an enigma, while still being accurate.

(Many of the MBTI types don't line up exactly with their Socionics "equivalent".)

_(to be continued...)_


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

@Army Man

"I don't have any shoes or socks"-- continuation of Se
Moving on to making excuses.... That's called the "fundamental attribution error": When someone else does it, you go into judgment, but when you do the same thing, you can be willing to curb judgment somewhat.

The fundamental attribution error comes from a strong self-referential impulse, which is indicative of Fi.
Fe is less likely to "commit" such an error, though only by a slight margin.

"Sore throat" --> "Gargle" --> "Bad taste": Se.
_(remember, just because the sensations are within your body, doesn't make it Si---.... Si is more to do with impressions that external stimuli have made on you: Rather than focusing on the physiological state of "throat = sore", you'd focus on "this feels uncomfortable".... And, a stereotype of Si would be to start worrying about your overall health, rather than how icky the gargle will taste)

_"I want {x}, I wish {y}" is more Fi.
Logic would have went into breaking down the excuses rather than simply recognizing "Hey! That's an excuse!"
Excuses seem to violated your internal "code", and focusing on that code rather than on logical "rules"-- per se-- is F over T, at least.

The focus you have on laziness as a matter of "not doing [worthwhile] things" strikes me as Se and Fi.
Ne would focus more on-- if the underlying ethic is Laziness = Inaction-- what _you were doing internally that wasn't worth your time_, rather than on the actions you _could be taking and why those are more important_.
Ni.... probably wouldn't focus on either, really. It'd probably hone-in on the _concept of laziness_ and either tear it to pieces or come up with a laundry list of all the ways your laziness-as-a-state-of-mind may have come about.

Si would probably focus on "But, I'm lazy because I don't like the discomfort of change" (the proverbial "The fist thing I think about when I wake up is how comfortable my bed is and how I don't want to leave it)

"The kitchen" as your first focus during an active observation: Se
Moving on to prioritizing food and thinking in terms of the salt-water and sore throat again: Se again
Backyard = Se
Focus on incompetence as a reason to not step in and do something: Honestly, that's really an Enneagram thing_, but in Socionics it would be a conservative measure which is very Se_

I really am trying to gauge other functions that S and F, but they just aren't coming up.

I can see some Te leaking through in terms of weighing the most efficient use of time: Productivity as a focus is very Te, but it would be more sophisticated and less likely to get into excuses if it were strong (Dom or Aux).

Running out of observations to make = Would have made an intuitive go off on some tangents, that they would also feel was important enough to write about. Basically, the exercise would have turned into a "Dear Diary" entry in an intuitive.

"To Do List" = Practically an S stereotype. ISTJ, specifically, but ISFPs also have Te and that's where the listing comes in (focus on productivity) when combined with either Se or Si. It's not so much that Te with an N function is _against lists_ but it just wouldn't come up as an impulse that often.

Also, a sidenote: Your room is shaped pretty much exactly like a friend from high school: Do you live in the South? I'm assuming the housing developers are regional (I live in Florida) rather than limited to a single state.

　

Anyway....

Random focusing on your Mario-esque outfit, and what it's lacking: Se again
Boots not fun because they're heavy = Se

Se-accepting. If this were a Socionics thread, I'd go immediate for SEE (SeFi).
The user *The Wanderer* is SEE, and I can apply the vibe I get from him to what I get from you.

Hmm.... This is nitpicky, but the calendar thing (having one) is Se. And remembering to flip to the correct month is Se, too.

(I hated the idea of calendars, but final buckled at the age of 24 when I had too many doctor's appointments to keep up with. I forget to change the page.)

Hmm....
Big indicator of Se over Si:
(1) If you sleep with the Teddy and wolf more often than you leave them up as decoration = Si
(2) If they're up for decoration more than you sleep with them = Se

Shit. That video is 23 minutes.

I'll have to get back to that later

_(continued...)_


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



@Army Man

"I don't have any shoes or socks"-- continuation of Se
Moving on to making excuses.... That's called the "fundamental attribution error": When someone else does it, you go into judgment, but when you do the same thing, you can be willing to curb judgment somewhat.

The fundamental attribution error comes from a strong self-referential impulse, which is indicative of Fi.
Fe is less likely to "commit" such an error, though only by a slight margin.

"Sore throat" --> "Gargle" --> "Bad taste": Se.
(remember, just because the sensations are within your body, doesn't make it Si---.... Si is more to do with impressions that external stimuli have made on you: Rather than focusing on the physiological state of "throat = sore", you'd focus on "this feels uncomfortable".... And, a stereotype of Si would be to start worrying about your overall health, rather than how icky the gargle will taste)

"I want {x}, I wish {y}" is more Fi.
Logic would have went into breaking down the excuses rather than simply recognizing "Hey! That's an excuse!"
Excuses seem to violated your internal "code", and focusing on that code rather than on logical "rules"-- per se-- is F over T, at least.

The focus you have on laziness as a matter of "not doing [worthwhile] things" strikes me as Se and Fi.
Ne would focus more on-- if the underlying ethic is Laziness = Inaction-- what you were doing internally that wasn't worth your time, rather than on the actions you could be taking and why those are more important.
Ni.... probably wouldn't focus on either, really. It'd probably hone-in on the concept of laziness and either tear it to pieces or come up with a laundry list of all the ways your laziness-as-a-state-of-mind may have come about.

Si would probably focus on "But, I'm lazy because I don't like the discomfort of change" (the proverbial "The fist thing I think about when I wake up is how comfortable my bed is and how I don't want to leave it)

"The kitchen" as your first focus during an active observation: Se
Moving on to prioritizing food and thinking in terms of the salt-water and sore throat again: Se again
Backyard = Se
Focus on incompetence as a reason to not step in and do something: Honestly, that's really an Enneagram thing, but in Socionics it would be a conservative measure which is very Se

I really am trying to gauge other functions that S and F, but they just aren't coming up.

I can see some Te leaking through in terms of weighing the most efficient use of time: Productivity as a focus is very Te, but it would be more sophisticated and less likely to get into excuses if it were strong (Dom or Aux).

Running out of observations to make = Would have made an intuitive go off on some tangents, that they would also feel was important enough to write about. Basically, the exercise would have turned into a "Dear Diary" entry in an intuitive.

"To Do List" = Practically an S stereotype. ISTJ, specifically, but ISFPs also have Te and that's where the listing comes in (focus on productivity) when combined with either Se or Si. It's not so much that Te with an N function is against lists but it just wouldn't come up as an impulse that often.

Also, a sidenote: Your room is shaped pretty much exactly like a friend from high school: Do you live in the South? I'm assuming the housing developers are regional (I live in Florida) rather than limited to a single state.

　

Anyway....

Random focusing on your Mario-esque outfit, and what it's lacking: Se again
Boots not fun because they're heavy = Se

Se-accepting. If this were a Socionics thread, I'd go immediate for SEE (SeFi).
The user The Wanderer is SEE, and I can apply the vibe I get from him to what I get from you.

Hmm.... This is nitpicky, but the calendar thing (having one) is Se. And remembering to flip to the correct month is Se, too.

(I hated the idea of calendars, but final buckled at the age of 24 when I had too many doctor's appointments to keep up with. I forget to change the page.)

Hmm....
Big indicator of Se over Si:
(1) If you sleep with the Teddy and wolf more often than you leave them up as decoration = Si
(2) If they're up for decoration more than you sleep with them = Se

Shit. That video is 23 minutes.

I'll have to get back to that later

(continued...)

Click to expand...



Yes, I know I really went on in the videos. Whoopsie.
Yeah, I don't sleep with stuffed animals anymore. I deliberately made an effort to sleep without them, and feel more like an adult because I have done so.
Yes I live in the south, I'd rather not say specifically. I distrust revealing that to people I don't know personally.
I do remember talking at least a little bit about the future in some videos, which I think would be some sort of intuition.
Okay so from everything you said we're zeroing in on xSFP.*


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *
> 
> Yes, I know I really went on in the videos. Whoopsie.
> Yeah, I don't sleep with stuffed animals anymore. I deliberately made an effort to sleep without them, and feel more like an adult because I have done so.
> ...


SEE is..... ESFp, so yeah. xSFP.

I think, using Socionics, you'd be ESFp because-- like I said-- Socionics E's are extroTIMs, meaning their Leading function is extroverted. It doesn't make _you_ an extrovert like it would in MBTI.

You'd likely be an introverted E in Socionics, making your DCNH subtype a Harmonizing or Normalizing subtype.

Normalizing includes ESFp-Fi, which may explain the confusion between that and ISFP....

Harmonizing, however, includes ESFp-Ni which could explain the incentive you've tended to feel toward identifying as an intuitive despite your actual processing indicating otherwise.

　
The important part in determining DCNH is:

(1) Distance or Contact = you've indicated Distance, which is the "introverted" part

(2) Terminating or Initial =
a.. "Terminating" is a "splash of J"-- meaning you finish shit. You're more orderly than a typical P.
b.. "Initial" is an "extra bit of P"-- meaning you're very off-the-cuff. You're even less orderly than a typical P.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



SEE is..... ESFp, so yeah. xSFP.

I think, using Socionics, you'd be ESFp because-- like I said-- Socionics E's are extroTIMs, meaning their Leading function is extroverted. It doesn't make you an extrovert like it would in MBTI.

You'd likely be an introverted E in Socionics, making your DCNH subtype a Harmonizing or Normalizing subtype.

Normalizing includes ESFp-Fi, which may explain the confusion between that and ISFP....

Harmonizing, however, includes ESFp-Ni which could explain the incentive you've tended to feel toward identifying as an intuitive despite your actual processing indicating otherwise.

　
The important part in determining DCNH is:

(1) Distance or Contact = you've indicated Distance, which is the "introverted" part

(2) Terminating or Initial =
a.. "Terminating" is a "splash of J"-- meaning you finish shit. You're more orderly than a typical P.
b.. "Initial" is an "extra bit of P"-- meaning you're very off-the-cuff. You're even less orderly than a typical P.

Click to expand...

Okay so SEE in Socionics but in MBTI an ISFP. Could it be that I'm a Normalizing and Harmonizing subtype?
So the DC in DCNH stands for Distance or Contact, but what about the NH? I don't understand that part.
Terminating or Initial: I couldn't say for sure generally because to me it feels more like 50/50, depending on circumstance and my mood.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

@Army Man ,

Another thing about "emulated" 4D Fi, is that it's Producing information rather than Accepting it.

True 4D functions-- when they're in the top 4 functions-- are always Accepting information.

The only "True 4D" function that _produces_ information is the Demonstrative function, but in the MBTI "stack" that would be a shadow function.

　
The only way to have a function that _appears_ (a) 4D (b) Producing, and (c) valued by the user, is for it to be _actually technically 3D_ and simply buffered by subtype.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

For example, I'm a Ne subtype.

Ne is a (a) 3D, (b) Accepting, and (c) "shadow" function in typical IEIs (INFp --> INFJ).

In me, it _appears to be_ (a) 4D, (b) Accepting and (c) valued.

The only 4D Accepting Valued function in _any type_ is their first function, but my first function is of course Ni, so the _appearance of Accepting Ne_ is a result of subtype.


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



I mean that (if using Socionics terms)-- if looking at an SEE (ESFp), their Fi is 3-dimensional and a Fi-subtype will emulate a 4-dimensional version of Fi by buffering the Lack-Of-Fourth-Dimension by bringing in other functions to actively apply Fi to things (in the fourth dimension of Socionics) that 3D Fi would normally miss out on.

It's not so much "Fi-emulating", as it is "4D-Fi-emulating".

In ISFPs, Fi is already 4D. So being an ESFp in Socionics allows for your first function to be Se-- as I strongly believe it is-- and still explain why your Fi appears as if it were 4D when it's actually not.

True 4D won't need the help of other functions to do it's thing. 4D-emulated Fi will need to draw from other functions to do so, and the motivation of the subtype is basically that you want your Fi to be something you use in more situations, so you use multiple functions to achieve that result.

You clearly want to understand yourself on a core level, so this probably makes it so your Fi "overshadows" your Se if looked at from a non-Socionics point of view.

You can get away with typing as ISFP because of that (in MBTI), but in Socionics, no-- it's gotta list your true 4D function (Se) and your emulated quasi-4D function (Fi).

Click to expand...

But wouldn't ESFPs, as Extroverts, be very outgoing, have great social skills, be really talkative, and be walking parties waiting to happen, as it were?
I've always been a homebody with poor social skills and terrible at putting things into words the way I want to, although it is generally easier for me to do so in typing or writing. Also, I hardly ever even speak in person.
As a kid, most of what I did was very artistic, mostly drawing, at home by myself, as well as reading what I wanted to. Wouldn't that early development of life, characterized by doing what the person wants to all by themselves, be an Fi-dom trait?*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *
> 
> But wouldn't ESFPs, as Extroverts, be very outgoing, have great social skills, be really talkative, and be walking parties waiting to happen, as it were?
> I've always been a homebody with poor social skills and terrible at putting things into words the way I want to, although it is generally easier for me to do so in typing or writing. Also, I hardly ever even speak in person.
> As a kid, most of what I did was very artistic, mostly drawing, at home by myself, as well as reading what I wanted to. Wouldn't that early development of life, characterized by doing what the person wants to all by themselves, be an Fi-dom trait?*


No. E-types in Socionics aren't "extroverts"-- they're extroTIMs. Which just means their first _function_ is extroverted.

The subtype system in Socionics can easily make an extroTIM into an introVERT.

But, in MBTI, that's not possible, so you have to go with the "closest" option, which is ISFP. It fudges the functions a tiny bit, but if you opted for "ESFP" in MBTI, it would carry a whole bunch of implications with it that would create misunderstanding on the forums.

　
Technically, I believe your functions are SeFi, but the only SeFi in MBTI is associated with social extroversion, so it works better to just list "ISFP" even if it's technically inaccurate.

Your MBTI _dichotomies_ are Introverted-rather-than-Extroverted, Sensory-rather-than-Intuitive, Feeling-rather-than-Thinking, and Perceiving-rather-than-Judging.

　
Functionally, though, Se makes more sense for you dom, but that would undermine all your dichotomies.

That's why I can't stand MBTI. I can get away with it because-- even in type descriptions that are generally terrible-- INFJs are seen as "gregarious" and more social than most introverts. As are IEIs more social than many introtims.

　
Socionics doesn't have extroverts and introverts. "Se" is actually called "Volitional sensing" and is sometimes listed using the letter F for "Force".


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

*Name*
*2-letter**Symbol**1-letter**Name
**Emotive ethics*
Fe







E*Emoveo*
*Relational ethics*
Fi







R*Relatio**Tangential intuition*
Ne







I*Intueor**Temporal intuition*
Ni







T*Tempus**Volitional sensorics*
Se







F*Factor*
*Experiential sensorics*
Si







S*Sensus**Practical logic*
Te







P*Proiteor**Structural logic*
Ti







L*Lex*
 @Army Man,

None of these are "introverted" or "extroverted" in the MBTI sense. They just use the 2-letter code as shorthand to make it seem more familiar to newbies.


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:




Name


[TD="align: center"]2-letter[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Symbol[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]1-letter[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Name
[/TD]


[TR]
[TD]Emotive ethics
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Fe[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]







[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]E[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Emoveo
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Relational ethics
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Fi[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]







[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]R[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Relatio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tangential intuition
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ne[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]







[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]I[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Intueor[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Temporal intuition
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ni[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]







[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]T[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Tempus[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Volitional sensorics
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Se[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]







[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]F[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Factor
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Experiential sensorics
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Si[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]







[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]S[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Sensus[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Practical logic
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Te[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]







[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]P[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Proiteor[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Structural logic
[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Ti[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]







[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]L[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]Lex[/TD]
[/TR]

@Army Man,

None of these are "introverted" or "extroverted" in the MBTI sense. They just use the 2-letter code as shorthand to make it seem more familiar to newbies.

Click to expand...



Oh I see. That all makes perfect sense to me now. Yeah, too bad that anybody with a dominant function that operates externally means that in terms of MBTI they are an extrovert. That's not always the case, as you pointed out. I am one of those people that can hardly be put into the box of a very rigid system known as MBTI.
Thank you.*


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Army Man 

Are you thinking you're an ISFP in mbti? Sorry, I haven't been following this thread lately.


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kitty23 said:



@Army Man 

Are you thinking you're an ISFP in mbti? Sorry, I haven't been following this thread lately.

Click to expand...

In terms of MBTI, I've pretty much settled on it, yes. In terms of functions, though, it would seem I am an Se-Fi more than an Fi-Se. It's a complicated thing and it defies the boundaries established by the current MBTI system.*


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> In terms of MBTI, I've pretty much settled on it, yes. In terms of functions, though, it would seem I am an Se-Fi more than an Fi-Se. It's a complicated thing and it defies the boundaries established by the current MBTI system.


So it sounds like function wise you are an ESFP? 

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTJ. Example characteristics are being very critical and finding fault with almost everything, becoming bossy and ignoring others' feelings, having a very pessimistic view of the future, and seeing hidden meanings that are not really there. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ISFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of INTJ. Example characteristics are to go quiet or withdraw from people, have a gloomy view of the future, openly criticise other people, and to suddenly lose touch with the present realities of the situation. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ESFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Do either of these resonate for you?

If I showed you a picture of a bird what would you say to describe it?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kitty23 said:



So it sounds like function wise you are an ESFP? 

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ISFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of ENTJ. Example characteristics are being very critical and finding fault with almost everything, becoming bossy and ignoring others' feelings, having a very pessimistic view of the future, and seeing hidden meanings that are not really there. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ISFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Under extreme stress, fatigue or illness, the ESFP's shadow may appear - a negative form of INTJ. Example characteristics are to go quiet or withdraw from people, have a gloomy view of the future, openly criticise other people, and to suddenly lose touch with the present realities of the situation. The shadow is part of the unconscious that is often visible to others, onto whom the shadow is projected. An ESFP may therefore readily see these faults in others without recognising it in him/her self.

Do either of these resonate for you?

If I showed you a picture of a bird what would you say to describe it?

Click to expand...

Both of them resonate a little bit, neither completely.
IDK, I would probably just call it a bird. I might be able to name it if I happened to know which species it is.*


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> IDK, I would probably just call it a bird. I might be able to name it if I happened to know which species it is.


That's Se. 

Have you seen this page? It describes the functions really well. 

Have you ever explained cognitive functions? If... - Confessions of a Myers Briggs-aholic


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kitty23 said:



That's Se. 

Have you seen this page? It describes the functions really well. 

Have you ever explained cognitive functions? If... - Confessions of a Myers Briggs-aholic

Click to expand...

Going by that, I use Fi more than Se. The slight confusion is probably because Fi is internalized and what comes out more easily recognizably is Se. That's a theory I just created, by the way. It makes a lot of sense based on what I've been learning about MBTI and functions so far, though.*


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Going by that, I use Fi more than Se. The slight confusion is probably because Fi is internalized and what comes out more easily recognizably is Se. That's a theory I just created, by the way. It makes a lot of sense based on what I've been learning about MBTI and functions so far, though.


Yes, extraverted functions are much easier to see than introverted functions.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*So I just saw this and now it has me questioning everything I believe about myself. I hate that new information does that to me so easily.
Seems like whenever I encounter information about the cognitive functions I should be able to look and say "Yep, that's me. Nope, that's not. Okay, this confirms that am typed accurately." but instead it's more along the lines of "Well I'm not sure what I think about this. Great, now I'm confused about all of this yet again. Ugh, why can't my brain work better to sift through this information?" Anyway, here's the link:
Determining Function Axes, Part 9 | CelebrityTypes*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Army Man said:


> *So I just saw this and now it has me questioning everything I believe about myself. I hate that new information does that to me so easily.
> Seems like whenever I encounter information about the cognitive functions I should be able to look and say "Yep, that's me. Nope, that's not. Okay, this confirms that am typed accurately." but instead it's more along the lines of "Well I'm not sure what I think about this. Great, now I'm confused about all of this yet again. Ugh, why can't my brain work better to sift through this information?" Anyway, here's the link:
> Determining Function Axes, Part 9 | CelebrityTypes*


I can start off by saying, the answer to "Why can't my brain work better to sift through this information?" is likely because your thinking function is either tertiary (and not practiced enough) or even completely inferior.

You don't seem functionally unintelligent, so it's likely that your logic is just low on the totem pole.

　
Which function axis, based solely on this link you posted, sounds the most like your Dominant/Inferior?

Which sounds most like your Auxiliary/Tertiary?

Don't worry about choosing an Aux/Tert that "matches" whatever you choose for Dom/Inf....

Just take those two questions as standalone questions and pick whichever ones sound the best for each, regardless of whether or not they fit typologically.


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



I can start off by saying, the answer to "Why can't my brain work better to sift through this information?" is likely because your thinking function is either tertiary (and not practiced enough) or even completely inferior.

Click to expand...

Hmm, yeah I guess it could be. Don't know why but I seem to be a lot more engaged in thinking when around people that use Ti (namely two friends of mine, an INTP and an ESTP). Although the Ti that I observe in ISTPs and ENTPs leaves me stumped, like "What? Where is this stuff even coming from?" I guess the Ti of INTPs and ESTPs is just easier for me to follow in general... for some reason. *shrug*
Although the more I listen to ISTPs and ENTPs it does become easier for me to understand what they are saying, I just have to think about what they are saying from their perspective, via the cognitive functions. "Okay the ISTP thinks this because their Fe is inferior and there's more Ti-Ni so that makes all kinds of sense to me now, but I don't agree with their conclusion, but that's whatever I guess".



Kerik_S said:



You don't seem functionally unintelligent, so it's likely that your logic is just low on the totem pole.

Click to expand...

Thank you very much for that. That's one of the nicest things I believe anybody has ever said to me on PerC, regardless of type. It really does make me feel better to have somebody genuinely compliment me in such a regard.



Kerik_S said:



Which function axis, based solely on this link you posted, sounds the most like your Dominant/Inferior?

Click to expand...

It sounds like I have a lot of Fe from the description "as courtesy towards, and validation of, the viewpoints of others", or maybe that's just more of an Enneagram 9 thing, being a Peacemaker. It also sounds like I equally have a lot of Ti from the description "doubting of and continuous precision-seeking with regards to existing judgments", or maybe that's just a result of inferior Te, which would be more inclined to accepting logic from what's clear and obvious for all to see and recognize.
Te, here described as "the forceful and compelling marshaling of facts" does not sound like me at all, unless I'm so angry that I just don't give a crap about anybody or anything at all because gosh darn it I'm offended and that overrides any rationality, so I would say that it's inferior.



Kerik_S said:



Which sounds most like your Auxiliary/Tertiary?

Click to expand...

Probably Se/Ni because I relate a whole lot with connecting to the "essence" of what things are, and most certainly not any Si, which is here described as "compilation and continuity".

So, in conclusion, I guess that's about it. I imagine if I looked at this thread, being another person but obviously with the same personality, I would think to myself "Oh my gosh this guy is such an idiot. He needs to figure out his type already."
:tongue:*


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> *Hmm, yeah I guess it could be. Don't know why but I seem to be a lot more engaged in thinking when around people that use Ti (namely two friends of mine, an INTP and an ESTP.*


In Socionics, this would be explained by the Super-Id functions-- You're better at them when people who have them in spades are around. The Super-Id functions are in the same "place" in the stack/model as Tertiary and Inferior.

It could also be Superego, since your 1 wing in your Enneagram core has a strong Superego pull, and so does your 6 fix.

I also don't even need Enneagram to tell me that the boundary between your Ego and Superego is very tenuous since you try and keep the peace so much, to the point where your own motives are placed into your periphery.

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *Although the Ti that I observe in ISTPs and ENTPs leaves me stumped, like "What? Where is this stuff even coming from?" I guess the Ti of INTPs and ESTPs is just easier for me to follow in general... for some reason. *shrug* Although the more I listen to ISTPs and ENTPs it does become easier for me to understand what they are saying, I just have to think about what they are saying from their perspective, via the cognitive functions.*


As far as functions goes, there's not rhyme or reason as to whose Ti you understand and whose you don't:

INTPs irrational axis is NeSi, ESTP = SeNi, ISTP = SeNi, ENTP = NeSi again. You understand one Ne/Si type but not another, and you underatand one Se/Ni type but not another.

That doesn't tell us anything, really.

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *"Okay the ISTP thinks this because their Fe is inferior and there's more Ti-Ni so that makes all kinds of sense to me now, but I don't agree with their conclusion, but that's whatever I guess".*


That quote sounds very Thinking-Tertiary or -Inferior. In Socionics, this analysis in the quote shows me that you can't apply your logic to specific situations very well.

I can't tell which Thinking function is in your stack and which isn't, because-- quite honestly-- they're both pretty lacking.

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *Thank you very much for that. That's one of the nicest things I believe anybody has ever said to me on PerC, regardless of type. It really does make me feel better to have somebody genuinely compliment me in such a regard.*


Honestly, that's a little sad... 

The nicest thing anyone's ever said to you on here is that you're not unintelligent..? I don't want to rob you of the warm feelings my compliment gave, but I'm worried that you've been hanging around some cold fish on here

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *It sounds like I have a lot of Fe from the description "as courtesy towards, and validation of, the viewpoints of others", or maybe that's just more of an Enneagram 9 thing, being a Peacemaker. It also sounds like I equally have a lot of Ti from the description "doubting of and continuous precision-seeking with regards to existing judgments",*


In terms of Ti, that "precision-seeking" would actively allow you to be more precise by your own devices. You wouldn't just seek it out from others constantly typing you and needing to come on a forum everytime you receive seemingly conflicting information.

What makes me think Ti isn't even in your stack is actually due to the fact that you're having so much trouble applying information without it being phrased in a very particular and stripped-down way.

I think your next quote hits the nail on the head, and helps me figure out which Thinking function is where.

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *or maybe that's just a result of inferior Te, which would be more inclined to accepting logic from what's clear and obvious for all to see and recognize.*


Yes, and it explains why you come to other to help you sort out a clear picture: Because you've realized that you can't do that very easily.

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *Te, here described as "the forceful and compelling marshaling of facts" does not sound like me at all, unless I'm so angry that I just don't give a crap about anybody or anything at all because gosh darn it I'm offended and that overrides any rationality, so I would say that it's inferior.*


That's only when it's strong. If it's Fi (dominant) with Te (inferior), the only "marshalling" that will occur is a sort of unconscious drive to make sure you have all your ducks in a row, to the point where all your previous insights will feel shaken when giving puzzle pieces that don't seem to "fit".

How you keep coming on here with new information, the tone is that you're like a calculator encountering a *syntax_error*.

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *Probably Se/Ni because I relate a whole lot with connecting to the "essence" of what things are, and most certainly not any Si, which is here described as "compilation and continuity".*


Yeah. Se/Ni on one axis, Fi/Te on the other. That's either SeFi or FiSe when combined together.

xSFP, again.

I sincerely doubt you're Fe/Ti. You're far too individualistic, and you don't really mention any anecdotes involving other people. Especially for a 9w1, which are very other-people oriented. You may be other-people oriented, but in all that focus you still don't speak as if you're focusing on social dynamics. It's all very _My Internal Feelings and Their Internal Feelings_.

Not very much focus on objective stuff like _What I Said/Did, What They Said/Did_. It always seems to divert to attitudes/emotions.

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *So, in conclusion, I guess that's about it. I imagine if I looked at this thread, being another person but obviously with the same personality, I would think to myself "Oh my gosh this guy is such an idiot. He needs to figure out his type already."
> :tongue:*


That's just your 1-wing and your 6w5 speaking.

I'm sure many people who lack Ti in their stack have similar problems with typology if their Te isn't strong to make up for it.


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Also, @Doctor Doom ,

Someone with Fi rather than Fe-- especially when their F functions are strong-- would be much more likely to change their avatar, signature, color scheme, username as much as you have.

And relying on those visual cues so much is very SeFi or FiSe in and of itself.


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



Honestly, that's a little sad... 

The nicest thing anyone's ever said to you on here is that you're not unintelligent..? I don't want to rob you of the warm feelings my compliment gave, but I'm worried that you've been hanging around some cold fish on here

Click to expand...

Yeah, there's a lot of jerks on PerC and IRL that I have encountered... regrettably so.
Plus, even when I am complimented, it's a little awkward and hard for me to accept. I'm sort of caught between taking it in too strongly and getting arrogant, and thinking nothing of it and being completely insecure.*


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



Also, @Doctor Doom ,

Someone with Fi rather than Fe-- especially when their F functions are strong-- would be much more likely to change their avatar, signature, color scheme, username as much as you have.

And relying on those visual cues so much is very SeFi or FiSe in and of itself.

Click to expand...

Yeah, well... it kind of changes with these little phases I go through in life.
You could probably figure but I'm a big fan of Julian McMahon's portrayal of Doctor Doom in the 2005 Fantastic Four film, as well as its 2007 sequel. The new character design sucks butt big-time. Anyway, I've seen several movies of his, in addition to several of his interviews, and I really like his personality in general. At least, from what I gather. It's not like I actually know him, even though I want to.*


----------



## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> *
> 
> Yeah, well... it kind of changes with these little phases I go through in life.
> You could probably figure but I'm a big fan of Julian McMahon's portrayal of Doctor Doom in the 2005 Fantastic Four film, as well as its 2007 sequel. The new character design sucks butt big-time. Anyway, I've seen several movies of his, in addition to several of his interviews, and I really like his personality in general. At least, from what I gather. It's not like I actually know him, even though I want to.*


He's also incredibly hot.

_Charmed_ is one of my favorite shows of all time, and he was a major character in that for a few seasons, and was recurring until the end of the series.


----------



## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



He's also incredibly hot.

Charmed is one of my favorite shows of all time, and he was a major character in that for a few seasons, and was recurring until the end of the series.

Click to expand...

Yes, I must agree with you that he is very handsome.
I have been trying to watch the series of Nip/Tuck, but so far I have only seen the first season.*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> *
> 
> Yes, I must agree with you that he is very handsome.
> I have been trying to watch the series of Nip/Tuck, but so far I have only seen the first season.*


He wears a lot of speedos in Nip/Tuck :tongue:


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



He wears a lot of speedos in Nip/Tuck :tongue:

Click to expand...

Because there's a lot of sex, oftentimes involving him, in the series. Since I often watch the series at a public computer, I usually wait until those scenes are over with, and the same with the surgeries.
What interests me most about the series, at least so far, is the relationships between the main cast: Christian, his new wife, the McNamara family, and the hospital staff (that is, assuming they perform plastic surgery at a hospital, since the facility itself is not specifically named).
Kind of funny, don't you think, that that you both have the same functions but upside-down, since he's an ESTP?*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> *
> 
> Because there's a lot of sex, oftentimes involving him, in the series. Since I often watch the series at a public computer, I usually wait until those scenes are over with, and the same with the surgeries.
> What interests me most about the series, at least so far, is the relationships between the main cast: Christian, his new wife, the McNamara family, and the hospital staff (that is, assuming they perform plastic surgery at a hospital, since the facility itself is not specifically named).
> Kind of funny, don't you think, that that you both have the same functions but upside-down, since he's an ESTP?*


idk, I don't know what his character on Charmed would have typed as, and that's what I like him from

You'd think there'd be a Cast typing thread for Charmed-- it was the most watched show on Netflix in 2012


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



idk, I don't know what his character on Charmed would have typed as, and that's what I like him from

You'd think there'd be a Cast typing thread for Charmed-- it was the most watched show on Netflix in 2012

Click to expand...

That's surprising that a popular show wouldn't have a type thread. Oh, it appears you jumped to conclusions. I saw your activity on your profile and as it turns out, obviously, there is such a thread.
Personally, I'm not really into anything with magic, except maybe Marry Poppins. lol*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

_*Character*_*Types around internet**My guess**Prue*ENTJ ESTJ ENTJ ENTJ ENTJ ENTJ ENTJ*ENTJ**Piper*IxFJ ISFJ ISFJ ISFJ ESFJ ISFJ ISFJ*ISFJ**Phoebe*ExFP ENFP ESFP ENFP ENFP ENFP ENFP*ENFP**Paige*ENFJ ENTP xNFP ENFP ExFP ESFP ENTP*ENTP**Leo*INFJ IxFP INFP INFJ INFJ INFJ INFJ*INFJ**Chris*IxTJ INFP INFP INFP*INFP**Cole*ENTJ ENTJ ENTJ ESTJ ENTJ ESTJ*ENTJ**Darryl*xSTJ ISTJ ISTJ ISFJ ISTP*ISTP*

Prue is like the bad-ass go-getter Mary Sue glue-that-held-the-family-together Surrogate-Dad/Surrogate-Mom and knows how to tell you where any artifact in the world is from.

Piper is totally into "home and hearth"-- and frequently, when the girls are transformed into things, ends up as the "Mother Earth" figure-- wants to own a restaurant and cook and have a stable family. Also very witty and snarky and sassy.

Phoebe is literally an advice columnist who is obsessed with finding love, and her biggest fear is that she's even slightly "evil"

Paige is a social worker, and she's very rebellious and kinda trolls the bad guys, a lot. Her nickname in fandom was also "Raige." xD I love her so much.

Leo is practically worshipped by the Charmed Ones for his ability to counsel them and keep them together in the fighting spirit. In one episode, they basically fall apart and become useless without his guidance. It's kinda pathetic and Chris has to get them to trust themselves.

Chris... I get why they thought he might be INTJ, but I think he's an INFP who just relies on Te a lot because of his rough upbringing. When he integrates more, he gets more INFP'ish.

Cole, _*Julian McMahon's character*_, is likely ENTJ as well. There's an episode where it's mostly him and Prue, and they're literally like the same person and butt heads like crazy.

Darryl... He's a cop, observant, Se. I think he's pretty Fe because he's always pretty good at reading people, and idk.... Just a vibe I get. ISTP


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

I should repost this in the Charmed thread


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

@Kerik_S
*It's interesting that McMahon has played two different ENTJs: Dr. Doom and Cole
Although it would probably be a lot of fun to play one. You have to respect the powerful personalities that are usually associated with them.*


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

@Kitty23
*You said this is another thread:



Ti: No one is more qualified to determine the truth than myself.
Fi: No one is more qualified to determine what is morally right than myself. 
Ti has to rationalize. Fi has to reflect. Ti reflects on logic. Fi reflects on morality.

Click to expand...

 I strongly relate to Ti described this way much more than Fi. I almost never think about morality.*

@Kerik_S
*What do you think?*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> @_Kitty23_
> *You said this is another thread:
> I strongly relate to Ti described this way much more than Fi. I almost never think about morality.*
> 
> ...


I think that the following scenario is very likey:

Two people who are thinking about the same thing, something they see as something they base their decisions on.
(1) One of them would call this important thing "truth"
(2) The other would call this same exact thing "morality"

The distinction is meaningless.

What matters is what the specifics of this "thing they base their decisions on" _is_.

　
Ti would actually scoff at the notion of objective "truth" because truth is ultimately a loaded word that is incredibly subjective.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

@Doctor Doom ,

I'm telling you, the way in which you're so taken with new information-- and can't figure out what information is relevant and which should be discarded based on the situation-- tells me that your logical functions are weak.

　
They're so weak that you really shouldn't type yourself based on your Thinking function because I don't believe you have the logical capabilities to distinguish between Te and Ti as they occur in your mind.

You should focus on Fe and Fi, because when you figure that out, you automatically know what the Thinking function paired with it has to be.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



I think that the following scenario is very likey:

Two people who are thinking about the same thing, something they see as something they base their decisions on.
(1) One of them would call this important thing "truth"
(2) The other would call this same exact thing "morality"

The distinction is meaningless.

What matters is what the specifics of this "thing they base their decisions on" is.
　
Ti would actually scoff at the notion of objective "truth" because truth is ultimately a loaded word that is incredibly subjective.

Click to expand...

Well, there is somebody I know that often calls me illogical. That almost always makes me so upset. I mean, who do they think they are to stand up atop some mountain of logic and say that just because they don't understand what I'm saying that there is no logic to it?
What I usually respond with is, "Right, because you are the king of all logic." That usually makes them mad, but I don't even give a fuck at that point because they went and pissed me off by calling me illogical first. Just because something doesn't make sense to one person, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense at all.
Obviously, I'm worked up to talk about this, but yeah, what I'm trying to say is my own experience with Ti as you described.*


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



@Doctor Doom ,

I'm telling you, the way in which you're so taken with new information-- and can't figure out what information is relevant and which should be discarded based on the situation-- tells me that your logical functions are weak.

　
They're so weak that you really shouldn't type yourself based on your Thinking function because I don't believe you have the logical capabilities to distinguish between Te and Ti as they occur in your mind.

You should focus on Fe and Fi, because when you figure that out, you automatically know what the Thinking function paired with it has to be.

Click to expand...

It is also possible that since Ti thinks about things so much inside their head, it's not necessarily easily seen or recognized.
It is possible that I'm an ESTP, which means I'm not so good with theory and Fi is my polar function. What this means is that my identity or whatever is a very fluid concept and as long as I live right, I'm not a bad person.
Confession: when you asked me those questions earlier about which function I would attribute to a certain description, I was making mental assumptions about what you meant when you were asking me, so I probably wasn't being very honest generally. That's probably going to be frustrating to you, but I think it would have been easier for me to answer if you told me what the purpose in asking me was from the start.

I have been thinking about whether or not it would make any sense for me to be an Se-dom, from the stereotypes of Extroversion and Introversion, anyway. Here is the way I see it: I don't live a rather introverted lifestyle because I don't like being around people. I love being around people. I get really bored and lonely when I am alone for any significant length of time. When I do spend a while by myself, I think to myself, "Okay. That's it. This is pathetic. I need to do something. I need to find some new friends, reconnect with some old friends, or get the shitty people that I'm putting up with out my life because they bring me down every time I am with them. It's time to have some fun. Who cares about winning some game if there is nobody around to share the experience with? I can only be so happy for myself."
Also, I like being told what I'm supposed to do because I feel completely useless without some direction or purpose, but I don't like being told how to do anything. Tell me the what, let me focus on the how.
I definitely don't like doing much of anything on my own, because I think it's better to discuss things with others before just figuring "Well, I can only think of one way to do this so here I go". That's the same reason why I am discussing all of my confusion with MBTI among other people, to help me reach some sort of understanding, and hopefully, a well-informed solid conclusion.
I thought I had so much more to say about this but I'm struggling to get the words out here and now. I guess I'm not so good at explaining myself. Plus, the Enneagram 9 thing tells me "No, don't explain why you're right. That usually only leads to conflict. Conflict is bad."

I have seen many Ti-auxiliary users who have struggled to type themselves and understand the entire concept of MBTI, because their dominant function is one of extroverted (aka objective) perception. Also, being extroverts, they need to discuss it with other people to help them reach a firm conclusion about the matter, because they find it hard to do so on their own understanding.*


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

@Kerik_S
*I found a table of MBTI and Enneagram correlations. They give no MBTI with the Enneagram 9, but say that the 9 acts like a 3 when secure, and a 3 acts like a 9 when stressed. The MBTI they correlate with Enneagram 3 are Se-doms. That table is below.









Also, on the following website Personality Types: Enneagram and Myers Briggs Type Correlations - Enneagram and Myers Briggs, they list Enneagrams with MBTI types in 3 categories (Often, Sometimes, and Rarely). With the Enneagram 9, there is only one Extrovert listed under Often: ESTP.
Granted, everything below that table contradicts what they said in the table, by reaching the conclusion that Enneagram 9s are usually FPs in MBTI. We both know that I am an unusual case, as you have told me, which is why this has been both difficult and confusing for the both of us. Therefore, it would make sense that my MBTI and Enneagram are fairly uncommon, as is obvious by searching almost anywhere else on the internet. These are the only sources I could find that would account for the discrepancy of an ESTP 9w1.
Fe or Fi, in terms of ethics: my ethics are not too much different from the ethics of what society or external influences would call "right" and "wrong", although, being a Perceiver 9, I try to avoid using such rigid terms. I have already said before that I almost never aware of what I am feeling, unless it's so obvious that it is practically screaming to me within my own head "I am upset/sad/happy and this is why" which means that Fi isn't really there at all.
I found evidence of an ESTP 9w1 here https://www.reddit.com/r/estp/comments/2nld61/enneagram_types/. Apart from this, though, they seem to be invisible, at least on the internet among the MBTI world.
So, anyway, a lot of words later: what do you think?*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> *
> 
> Well, there is somebody I know that often calls me illogical. That almost always makes me so upset. I mean, who do they think they are to stand up atop some mountain of logic and say that just because they don't understand what I'm saying that there is no logic to it?
> What I usually respond with is, "Right, because you are the king of all logic." That usually makes them mad, but I don't even give a fuck at that point because they went and pissed me off by calling me illogical first. Just because something doesn't make sense to one person, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense at all.
> Obviously, I'm worked up to talk about this, but yeah, what I'm trying to say is my own experience with Ti as you described.*


The fact that you get worked up when someone highlights even simply a _possible perceived_ weakness of logic makes me think that your PoLR (Point of Least Resistance) function is Ti.

It's literally Socionics 101, so I'm not pulling this out of my ass.

The PoLR function is which one frustrates you and makes you feel inadequate especially when it's failures are brought to your attention by others.



wikisocion.org said:


> The *vulnerable function* is also called the *Point* or *Place of Least Resistance (PoLR)* or *sensitive* function. The element in this function creates a feeling of frustration and inadequacy. A person does not understand the importance of this element entirely, and it can easily lead to painful consequences if not adequately considered. However, to directly engage this function creates feelings of insecurity and distress. One reason why the vulnerable function is so difficult to engage is because three other conscious functions come before it, making this one the most difficult to comprehend. Often an alternative approach may be found from the view of the mobilizing function. Because of the psychological disincentives to using the vulnerable function, people usually try to ignore information related to it, and in extreme cases do so even in situations where it is most relevant. Even with a theoretical understanding of how this element works, it is difficult to turn it into practical norms of behavior. One can "develop" the vulnerable function by recognizing that it is actually important in certain real-life circumstances. Even if the subject recognizes this, he will still usually try to avoid taking responsibility for it himself, or develop a minimalist or non-traditional approach (possibly using other functions) that is enough to satisfy one's own needs. The presence of a dual usually dissolves any concern there might be about how to approach matters of the vulnerable function.


　
What you described is Ti-PoLR, and I'm assuming the next post of yours that I've yet to read is going to be your ego functions trying to explain how you're not inadequate or make some kind of rationalization as to why your logic seems weak.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> *It is also possible that since Ti thinks about things so much inside their head, it's not necessarily easily seen or recognized.*


"Thinking" in MBTI does not actually literally mean "the act of thought". I use Ti all over the place and it's not even one of my conscious functions.

People have actually mistyped me as INTP in the past because my Ti is so obvious.

　


Doctor Doom said:


> *It is possible that I'm an ESTP, which means I'm not so good with theory and Fi is my polar function. What this means is that my identity or whatever is a very fluid concept and as long as I live right, I'm not a bad person.*


I hate to say it, because I'm afraid you'll get mad at me and find a way to dismiss my words, but all you're really doing is proving that you're grasping at straws to prove Strong logic by actually demonstrating that your logic can't put together this case you're making for ESTP.

Your logic is even failing to make a general case right now, and I feel like you're being driven to prove yourself to do something that is just slapping yourself in the face and refusing to accept yourself. If you're put-off by the notion that you have Weak logic, what if I were more sensitive and were offended by your words and was like,

"Well, what's so wrong with being a feeler?"

I'm saying you've become reactionary and insecure, which is totally PoLR stuff.

There's no way in hell Fi is your PoLR



> Fi as a vulnerable (PoLR) function (ILE and SLE)
> The individual does not normally pay attention to the nuances of interpersonal relationships; he is either overly suspicious or overly assuming of his relations with others when they are not clearly defined. More importance is given to these relations as they pertain to objective mutual benefit; entertaining one another and accomplishing mutual goals are seen as the main focus, rather than seeing the relationships as rewarding in and of themselves. The individual does not expect others to be actively aware or concerned with his own personal sentiments, and so sees little reason to be concerned with those of others, unless they have direct consequences for the individual. Statements by other persons reflecting their inner feelings are not fully registered by the individual if not accompanied by external emotional expression or actions. Suggestions that the individual may have acted unethically in the eyes of another person who has not clearly expressed disapproval are met with bafflement by the individual; those that are expressed without tact are either dismissed or reacted to aggressively.
> 
> Expressions of deep personal sentiments are awkward for the individual, whether coming from another or himself. He does not see it as his "right" to place the burden of his true emotions on another, both because he knows how uncomfortable those of others make him (even when they are positive and genuine), and because of his own awkwardness in expressing them.



I've going to have to bring @Entropic in, because he's my favorite typologist on here and I'd trust his NiTe to figure out what to do with your tendency to randomly bring new information from all kinds of unrelated sources in, and be able to cull the information down to what's useful

*
　
*


Doctor Doom said:


> *Confession: when you asked me those questions earlier about which function I would attribute to a certain description, I was making mental assumptions about what you meant when you were asking me, so I probably wasn't being very honest generally. That's probably going to be frustrating to you, but I think it would have been easier for me to answer if you told me what the purpose in asking me was from the start.*


tbph, I don't believe that you were dishonest.

I believe you're actually _more_ likely to manipulate information and give dishonest answers when you _can_ figure out what the questions are trying to figure out.

I deliberately gave you questions with no instructions because I saw this tendency.

I believe you were being honest, and now you're trying to play Take'sy-Back'sy because you got a result you didn't like.

I've had trouble trusting you for a while, and this pretty much blows that out of the water because-- now-- no matter what I try, I'm going to be assuming you're dead-set against certain types for yourself, and only want to type as something similar to people to you admire rather than just accepting who you are.

Your identity is not fluid-- you have very particular ideas about what you want to see yourself as.

　
I'm not saying to to be like 'Ha! Gotcha!'. I'm saying it because I think I'm seeing you evade rationality because you don't like yourself and want typology to serve as a safety blanket for your insecurities.

　
I already knew you were going to frustrate me in terms of being difficult to type, but now I'm really turned off to the process of typing you because I feel like I'm feeding into your insecurities.

If you reject whatever Entropic types you as, then I'll personally lose any hope in you ever accepting anyone's help because he's really really good at this shit and won't get caught up emotionally with the ethics of whether or not he should feed into your feelings of inadequacies.

I just want to shake you and tell you that all types are worthy, and that forcing yourself to be something your not is such a waste of time and you could be growing more and loving yourself more if you stopped this.


I'm perfectly okay with you as a person, and I think you're sweet and nice and caring. 

You need to embrace that you're not very logical, and that that's not the end of the world. I'd rather see you learning about who you are and engaging the forums with some confidence that's rooted in what your strengths actually are, not what you want them to be.

I believe that these four-letters are something you're using subconsciously as a bandage for a wound you keep picking at, and it's making me sad to remain invested in this process.

　
This isn't some tragic break-up scene, I'm just saying that you require an expert in typology who will be less ethically-inclined to examine your emotions rather than your words


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

@Doctor Doom, 

The point of my last post is: Even if you were telling the truth, me trying to both type you _and_ process your ethical breaches (dishonesty) is basically asking me to ignore what my stronger (F) functions want to dissect and just switch that off in favor of my weaker (T) functions, and that trying to work with you with your particular hang-ups and the confusing things you do during the typology process is just going to cause me to start reading your behavior as a sort backlash, and saying things that upset you.

I'd rather stop


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

@Kerik_S


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

@_Doctor Doom_ 

I don't know what that means


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Doctor Doom said:


> *
> 
> Is there one you could suggest specifically? There are so many to choose from.*


Doesn't matter. Pick the one you find interesting.

@Kerik_S I'm not sure about ESFJ, but it's a hell lot better than ISFP which isn't likely at all because the op doesn't value Fi and Te


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Kerik_S said:



Whoa. I must have like zero grasp on what Fe looks like when it's Accepting because this is like blowing my mind.

It's interesting, when I was scanning the history of this thread, I saw that OP came on here mentioning that he'd been typed as ESFJ before. Full circle, I guess?
@Doctor Doom : What was the rationale behind the person who typed you as ESFJ?

Entropic seems to think the same thing, so perhaps combining the information from that typing process with Entropic's remarks here and see if that makes you think "Hmm, maybe the initial typing was right?"

　
It's worth a shot.

Click to expand...

I just can't see ESFJ. I've known many, and they're a lot different than I am.
You typed me as ESFJ. How could I possibly guess what your rationale was? It was all your idea.*


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

*


Entropic said:



Doesn't matter. Pick the one you find interesting.

@Kerik_S I'm not sure about ESFJ, but it's a hell lot better than ISFP which isn't likely at all because the op doesn't value Fi and Te

Click to expand...

1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?
I don't know.
2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?
success, happiness, marriage, love, security, peace of mind and body, creativity, imagination
3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.
When I helped somebody, or did something very well very fast, because it gave me a hormone rush (not sure if it's dopamine or adrenaline or something else).
4) What makes you feel inferior?
When I'm trying to help somebody and they insult me, either directly or vaguely.
5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)
I don't know, but I could see all of those: people, pro-cons, how I feel about it - depends on the situation.
6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?
Just to make sure we do a good job and everything works out okay. I'm not one to typically seek control.
7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? 
Six Flags, do I really need to explain that?
8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)
Both a combination of hands on and theorizing. Memorization is not typically my strong suit.
9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?
Not so much, but I try.
10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?
I just try and see how it compares to what I know and how I feel. Then hopefully something inside either confirms or denies it.
11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?
Uh... both?
12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?
Both, depending on the situation. Usually, one-on-one is preferable because the more people around, the easier it is to be honest and accidentally hurt somebody's feelings. People usually make things so much more polarizing, so it's hard to know what approach I should take.
13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?
I like to know first, usually. Sometimes words are better. I reject reality.
14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?
Depends on what you mean by a "night out", but as long as it doesn't go against my morals, yeah I would happily go with them.
15) How do you act when you're stressed out?
Quiet, sulky, irritable, need to indulge myself (junk food, soda, watch TV/movie) to get in a better mood
16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?
When they treat me badly or provoke me when I have done nothing to offend them.
17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?
Their lives, their families, their ideas, general theories about whatever might come up.
18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life
Personal responsibilities, and any type of revenge.
19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?
Most of them say I am a good person. That's right, I am a pretty good person, but not as good as others.
20) You got a whole day to do whatever you like. What kind of activities do you feel like doing?
Watching TV/movie(s), reading, exercise, seeing what my friends/family would like to do and if we could both do that.

Could you explain why you don't see any Fi or Te in me?*


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> *
> 
> I just can't see ESFJ. I've known many, and they're a lot different than I am.
> You typed me as ESFJ. How could I possibly guess what your rationale was? It was all your idea.*


ESFp (SEE) in Socionics is still ESF*P* in MBTI by functions. The J/j and P/p don't switch in E's. Regardless, I'm seriously doubting my understanding of Fe-doms and Fe-inferiors, so it's likely that I have a more limited grasp of cognitive functions than I thought I did.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> ESFp (SEE) in Socionics is still ESF*P* in MBTI by functions. The J/j and P/p don't switch in E's. Regardless, I'm seriously doubting my understanding of Fe-doms and Fe-inferiors, so it's likely that I have a more limited grasp of cognitive functions than I thought I did.


Yeah I understand, it's humbling. I have read so much and talked with so many people that I started to feel comfortable in my own understanding about all of this, too. Then comes along an INTJ who says I "don't know what I'm talking about" - ouch, but I guess I needed to hear that.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> Yeah I understand, it's humbling. I have read so much and talked with so many people that I started to feel comfortable in my own understanding about all of this, too. Then comes along an INTJ who says I "don't know what I'm talking about" - ouch, but I guess I needed to hear that.


Well, you just need to continue to be diligent and notice whether or not the initial sting of that "You don't know what you're talking about" is clouding your judgment. I'm not trying to harken back to my initial statement to you about you having some kind of PoLR (or at least Superego, so Role or PoLR) logic function as some kind of way to be like "Ha! I was right!".

I'm just noticing now that you've been willing to admit that they said something you needed to hear, and that the best way to honor that is to move forward being aware that you may be a type that takes criticism regarding your logic very very seriously.

In Socionics, the reason for that would be explained by your logic functions being on the Weak side of the Strong/Weak dichotomy. It's a dichotomy, and I'm only using technical terms-- I'm not trying to make you feel bad about having "sub-par" (I mean Weak to be Socionics Weak) logic.

There is no "par" so there's no "sub-par". There's just relatively Strong, and relatively Weak.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> Well, you just need to continue to be diligent and notice whether or not the initial sting of that "You don't know what you're talking about" is clouding your judgment. I'm not trying to harken back to my initial statement to you about you having some kind of PoLR (or at least Superego, so Role or PoLR) logic function as some kind of way to be like "Ha! I was right!".
> 
> I'm just noticing now that you've been willing to admit that they said something you needed to hear, and that the best way to honor that is to move forward being aware that you may be a type that takes criticism regarding your logic very very seriously.
> 
> ...


Interesting. Although I'm not sure I believe you when you say you're not trying to prove yourself right. Just because you say that doesn't make it so. Please don't think I'm trying to make you feel bad by saying this, just feel it's worth mentioning.
Also, I don't think I'm too stuck on the _sting_ as you put it. I just don't know where to go from here.
It was a while ago, I think several months, in private messaging, but I meant what I typed: you definitely typed me previously as an ESFJ.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> Interesting. Although I'm not sure I believe you when you say you're not trying to prove yourself right. Just because you say that doesn't make it so. Please don't think I'm trying to make you feel bad by saying this, just feel it's worth mentioning.
> Also, I don't think I'm too stuck on the _sting_ as you put it. I just don't know where to go from here.
> It was a while ago, I think several months, in private messaging, but I meant what I typed: you definitely typed me previously as an ESFJ.


I've never private messaged you. Are you sure it was me?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> I've never private messaged you. Are you sure it was me?


Yep, I'm positive. It was when my username was The 11th Doctor, back when I thought I was an ENTP. I've changed my username and avatar a few times, so keep that in mind.


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## Kerik_S (Aug 26, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> Yep, I'm positive. It was when my username was The 11th Doctor, back when I thought I was an ENTP. I've changed my username and avatar a few times, so keep that in mind.


I'm a little embarrassed now


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kerik_S said:


> I'm a little embarrassed now


Please, don't be. There's a lot of things that none of us know about. There's a lot of things that a lot of us forget. That's because we must keep moving forward, which means that we let go of the past. Otherwise, the past can get caught around our feet and prevent us from moving forward.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Well I just got back from discussing this with the ENFJs. Their help has been much more efficient and convincing than anybody else so far, no offense. The way they see it, is that I'm an xSTJ, probably ESTJ. If you pick apart the different facets of this (Te-Ne loop, inferior Fi, Ni polar, stereotypes associated with sensors in general, etc.) I think it actually makes a lot more sense. I just don't see myself as bossy, which is one of many stereotypes of the ESTJ. But being an Enneagram 9 explains that to me.
Please share your thoughts about this... anybody.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

So two days and no responses. I'm going to assume that nobody has anything they would like to say about me being an ESTJ.
Going to make it official very soon.


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## Caraxor (Apr 21, 2015)

I remember! with the waving bear avatar and all that...
your current style of arguing seems to be somewhat of a "hard truth"
though if I remember, your tone used to be lighter. 
Anyway, I hope you feel happy with your current type


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Caraxor said:


> I remember! with the waving bear avatar and all that...
> your current style of arguing seems to be somewhat of a "hard truth"
> though if I remember, your tone used to be lighter.
> Anyway, I hope you feel happy with your current type


Yes, my initial presence comes off as much more laid-back and accepting. Must be why I could easily be mistaken as a Feeler, such as an ISFP or an ESFJ. I would account that for being an Enneagram 9, which is very unusual for Te-doms in general. Still, the type of people I respect most in life are the disciplined, efficient, successful, and goal-oriented people. Especially when they are good conversationalists. Sometimes I'm at a loss for words, even though I love conversing with others, and I need somebody else to step up to the plate and help out with a discussion.
Thank you, I believe I am happy with this type. As it turns out, not being sure of one's type is actually a defining feature of ENFPs and ESTJs because of a Ne-Te or Te-Ne loop, which completely skips over any Si or Fi, thus relying on others to help them assess their own worth. That fact makes me much more sure of my type, with that new realization.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

Sounds like a good fit. That Ne, causing you trouble!

As for ESTJs being bossy, well, every sensor type seems to have its associated stereotype and ESTJ has one of the worst. My mother is a wonderful ESTJ. She has a heart - she actually has a heart of gold - she just shows her love through her actions rather than being excessively emotional and demonstrative. But, really, she's a sweet person, and contrary to all stereotypes she's the most peace-loving and easy-going of all her sisters. There are four of them and the rest are very strong-willed and have to get their way. My mother does not, she'll go along with whatever, she just wants everybody to be happy and get along. She's only determined and pushy when it comes to getting her work done. (Her work also includes her housework, appointments, etc.) She's not normally bossy, only when she's down to business and in get-things-done mode, and then she has much greater expectations of herself than of anybody else. Her motto is "I can rest when my work is done." But she told me once that her mother had to correct her as a child and tell her not to be bossy with her friends. So, just wanted to offer a little portrait of a real ESTJ who defies some of the stereotypes, in case it helps you feel more confident in your own type.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

petitpèlerin said:


> Sounds like a good fit. That Ne, causing you trouble!
> 
> As for ESTJs being bossy, well, every sensor type seems to have its associated stereotype and ESTJ has one of the worst. My mother is a wonderful ESTJ. She has a heart - she actually has a heart of gold - she just shows her love through her actions rather than being excessively emotional and demonstrative. But, really, she's a sweet person, and contrary to all stereotypes she's the most peace-loving and easy-going of all her sisters. There are four of them and the rest are very strong-willed and have to get their way. My mother does not, she'll go along with whatever, she just wants everybody to be happy and get along. She's only determined and pushy when it comes to getting her work done. (Her work also includes her housework, appointments, etc.) She's not normally bossy, only when she's down to business and in get-things-done mode, and then she has much greater expectations of herself than of anybody else. Her motto is "I can rest when my work is done." But she told me once that her mother had to correct her as a child and tell her not to be bossy with her friends. So, just wanted to offer a little portrait of a real ESTJ who defies some of the stereotypes, in case it helps you feel more confident in your own type.


That's fascinating to learn.
As a kid I was very uptight and took myself far too seriously. I also come across, without any effort, as very domineering. People that know me better have realized this is only since those others are strangers and I'm talking to them about getting something done.


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## petitpèlerin (Apr 23, 2012)

Doctor Doom said:


> As a kid I was very uptight and took myself far too seriously. I also come across, without any effort, as very domineering. People that know me better have realized this is only since those others are strangers and I'm talking to them about getting something done.


I know what you mean. Some people (who don't know my mother well) think she's domineering/controlling. She's not. I mean, she'd run my life if I'd let her, but it would be about organizing my house and making sure I get places on time and see the dentist twice a year! She's really not controlling when it comes to what really matters, letting her kids make their own choices and live their own lives. I mean, she's not shy about offering her opinion and advice, and she can be pushy about some things, but I've never had any problem standing my ground with her and she knows when to back off. Just don't get in her way of getting her own work done! She's unstoppable.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Doctor Doom 

Here is how each type acts when stressed:

How Each MBTI Type Reacts to Stress (and How to Help!) - Psychology Junkie

Who you are at your worst:

Accurate Typing: The Inferior Function - MBTI Notes

Erasing ISTJ stereotypes:

Erasing ISTJ Stereotypes - Funky MBTI in Fiction

Erasing ESFJ stereotypes:

Erasing ESFJ Stereotypes - Funky MBTI in Fiction

Erasing ISFJ stereotypes:

Erasing ISFJ Stereotypes - Funky MBTI in Fiction

Erasing mbti stereotypes:

MBTI and Such - Letâ€™s Erase the Stereotype


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

@Doctor Doom 

I think you're seeing yourself too much in all of the types and closed off to potential types. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, I'm just trying to help you see yourself clearly. I also think you've been trying to type yourself based on traits you admire instead of your natural traits. So I'm going to ask some questions, some I might have asked before. So think back to childhood....

How important are the facts to you? Does it bother you when someone presents theory as fact? 

When talking to someone do you want to know the who, what, when, where, etc.? 

What were your favorite subjects in school? History, math,...and why? what subjects were your least favorite and why?

what goes through your mind when you're thrown into a type of situation you've never experienced before? 

What can convince you to believe in a new idea?

Do you hate when movies that don't have a solid ending/ending left open for interpretation?

How much do you like closure? 

Do you like editing papers? If so, why? Do you look for grammar mistakes, how a sentence could be shortened, how the message could become clearer, how the writer could use less offensive language, etc.?

How much do you notice your physical environment? 

What types of behaviors offend you? 

Where does your inspiration come from?

Say you’re in school and have to do a group presentation. Do you offer a presentation idea that you've already done for another class, or something you've never done before? 

What's your role in a group project? The organizer, the barnstormer, the one who sees the impracticalities in others ideas, the one who takes into account if others will be offended by group presentation, etc.?

What can your group members count on you for? What qualities do you have that the other group members lack?

So in college I did a counseling program where students would learn the counseling theories and then counsel each other. The "clients" always told me I had such a calming effect on them but I also sometimes had problem keeping the conversation linear-Ne. Like I would start out with one topic then jump to another...then go back to original topic. I wonder...say you were a counselor what do you think the client would say they like about you? And would they say you move around a lot, are stiff, you fidget, etc.? 

What types are you attracted to (not the type/s you want to be)? And I don't just mean romantically.


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## Pinina (Jan 6, 2015)

@Doctor Doom, are you pretty much settled now, or is this thread still actively trying to type you?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Pinina said:


> @Doctor Doom, are you pretty much settled now, or is this thread still actively trying to type you?


Well, apparently some are still trying to type me, but I am convinced. Thank you for your help in the matter.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> @Doctor Doom
> 
> I think you're seeing yourself too much in all of the types and closed off to potential types. And I don't mean that in an insulting way, I'm just trying to help you see yourself clearly. I also think you've been trying to type yourself based on traits you admire instead of your natural traits. So I'm going to ask some questions, some I might have asked before. So think back to childhood....
> 
> ...


Okay, time to organize these questions by numbers.
1) Facts are extremely important to me. It almost always bothers me when people present theory as fact.
2) Yes I like to understand the details about other people to acquire some grasp of what they are talking about and hopefully their personality, which also hopefully leads to a better relationship between us.
3) History and grammar were always my favorites because I was naturally good at them and they were always something I enjoyed learning about. History gives context to the present. Grammar puts order to people's vocabulary. Science and math I disliked the most. Science is dangerous and involves a lot of activities that I would rather not participate in. Math is confusing and hard for me to understand. Okay, "confusing and hard for me to understand" is redundant, but you get my point.
4) When I'm in a new situation, it depends on the specific situation, but I try to make the most of it.
5) Concrete factual evidence is a good way to convince me that somebody is telling the truth. Theory gets me rolling my eyes and losing respect for whoever presents it.
6) Most of the time, generally, yes I despise cliff-hanger endings. Other times, though, I would rather not know what happens next to the characters. That way at least I can bring in some optimism of my own and believe that in spite of everything, something good actually came from it.
7) Closure is desirable but very difficult to confidently believe that it has been achieved.
8) Not only do I like editing papers, but I critically examine the grammar of almost everything I read. I am currently exasperated with Faulkner's _As I Lay Dying_ because the grammar is terrible. He must have been beside himself while writing it. I am an orderly person, so one way I like putting things into order is grammatically. What if there were no order? Then society would collapse as we know it, and I would rather a) be in charge of the chaos to make order happen or b) dead so I would not have to face my overwhelming emotional upset with the chaos itself.
9) I'm almost always very aware of what is going on around me. Sometimes I can become so focused on one thing that I can mostly block out other things, but I never forget that those things are there.
10) Disrespectful ones, such as when people insult me or attack my character or claim that I am lying to them. I almost never lie. I almost never insult anybody, no matter how I may feel about them. Therefore, since I have such good character, nobody should ever attack my character by insulting me or claiming that I am a liar.
11) Mostly external sources. By myself, I have almost no motivation. Music, movies, books, family, friends, food, money, respect, love, my faith, are all things that motivate me.
12) It depends on what the presentation is for. If the situation calls for something that I have experience with, I would most likely go with something I have done before. If it is a new topic, apparently that would be something I have never done before.
13) I organize, brainstorm, and am a voice of reason in all ideas in group projects.
14) Getting done what has been told of me. Follow-through, responsibility, showing up for the day the project is due.
15) Hopefully they would like my professionalism, such as they way I word things and how I treat them. I expect they would probably say that I have a stiff countenance but that my body fidgets because I am not good at being idle for any length of time.
16) I don't understand what is said by "attracted to... romantically". How would I be attracted to anybody in a non-romantic way?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I would guess ESXJ. 

How much of a desire do you have to bring everyone together/keep the group together? 

Don't get caught up with the masculine vs feminine type/function stereotypes. Both Te and Fe are judging functions. These functions draw conclusions based on received information/information from outside sources. They have a desire to move toward an answer, decision, or objective. They can be stubborn to taking in new information that contradicts their own. 

I will show you difference between an ESFJ and ESTJ now. I would recommended asking those who know you who they think you are most like. 

"Oprah is a Fe-dom (likely ESFJ-Fe-Ti, though she’s typed ENFJ a lot online). I tried to find the James Frey original interview with Oprah where she really nailed him (as she puts it, she was attacking him not only for herself, but “the millions of people who read your book and thought it was real”) but I can’t seem to locate it. Boo. But here’s a quick clip with Lindsay Lohan where she lays down the Fe. Basically, cut your BS, get your act together, etc. But it also comes with Fe: you’re better than this, I know you can do it, you have a good heart." 






Oprah's is famous for relating to the audience. She just naturally wants to unite people. She relies on objective values- group values. Like in her weight loss commercial she naturally just touches people’s hearts. She just naturally talks for other people. She says "Inside EVERY woman" She's talking for everyone, and relating to everyone- Fe. Fe users naturally use words like "You and We." Fi users tend to say "I and Me."






"Dr. Phil is an ESTJ-Te-Fi. If you want classic hard-knocks Te-telling-people-off, go watch some of his interview clips on YouTube. This one is the first one I ran across, and it’s hilarious how he responds… total Te. THESE ARE THE FACTS. Here is another clip where he asserts just who is boss, whose show it is, what they are going to talk about, and where he stands with a guest."

Couldn't find the video for Dr. Phil. But when I watch his shows, he almost always says "Well, then do something about it!!!"- very Te. "These are the FACTS" and the he shows a bullet point list of the facts (statistics, etc.)- very Te. He relies on objective truth- the facts. Or he just says straight up "I think you're a liar and full of crap." See, he doesn't care about group harmony or group values. Or he finds loopholes in peoples stories, to make the FACTS clear. He wants things to make logical sense. His #1 goal is to bring the FACTS to the surface for everyone to see. He wants immediate results and to organize the objective truth. As for Fi, he has the abuser go through the same abuse he does to others. Like for example, he made a step-dad carry around heavy of weights to make him realize "how much weight his step-son feels from all of the verbal abuse he's received over the years (from the step-dad)." Dr. Phil wanted to put the step-dad in the kids shoes- Fi.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> I would guess ESXJ.
> 
> How much of a desire do you have to bring everyone together/keep the group together?
> 
> ...


Well I don't believe Oprah when she says "this is how I feel and I know that every other woman feels this way". Are you kidding me? She believes every woman feels the same way, as if she knows how each and every one of them feel? Have they told her? If they have, how do we know they were telling the truth unless it was a lie detector test? Then again, I've heard many times that there are ways to trick that test. But I digress. My point is that I would never pretend to know for sure what anybody is feeling. That's ridiculous.

I found an interview of Dr. Phil on _Jimmy Kimmel Live_ and here it is:





He [basically] says in the interview "If it's what you want, then do it. Who cares what anybody else thinks about it?" Yeah that's generally my advice to anybody.
Granted, I have my faith in God as a Christian so I have my own beliefs about what is right and wrong, what people should and should not do, and when I see people _sinning_ it really bothers me. But I realize that everybody has free will so unless they ask me about my faith, I'm not likely to bring it up and tell them how I think they should live. If I thought "That person is in sin and they need to know that God is not happy with them", I would call that being emotional. Even among friends, I'm not likely to give them advice unless they ask. If I really want to give them advice, I usually ask first.
"Can I give you some advice? I really want to. I think you need to hear what I have to say about this." In reality, it's not as tactful or kind or gentle as maybe it should be.
If they really don't want my advice, they should be stubborn and say so, "No. I don't want your advice. Don't tell me." Then okay, I'll try to think of something else to talk about. Sometimes the other person will change the subject before I can. I'm usually grateful for that in this sort of situation.


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## have courage and be kind (Oct 24, 2015)

Doctor Doom said:


> Well I don't believe Oprah when she says "this is how I feel and I know that every other woman feels this way". Are you kidding me? She believes every woman feels the same way, as if she knows how each and every one of them feel? Have they told her? If they have, how do we know they were telling the truth unless it was a lie detector test? Then again, I've heard many times that there are ways to trick that test. But I digress. My point is that I would never pretend to know for sure what anybody is feeling. That's ridiculous.


Not related to typing but I agree with your thoughts on Oprah. I hate when people do that. Unless I'm unsure of my feelings and seek support and advice do not tell me that you know I'm feeling this way or that way. It aggravates me so much when people do that with me and I shut down. 

I always emphasize that this is how I feel about the situation and that I only answer how I would respond. 

I'm not great at typing but I just don't see Fe as your dominant function. That being said I'm still grasping functions but there's a certain directness that - let's just say if I had to say do you come off as a Oprah or a Dr. Phil, I'd say Dr. Phil. There's a blunt quality to you that doesn't have the Fe cushioning I've seen with Fe dominants. It took 3 pages for me to finally leave a reply because I was intimidated by you. I'm never intimidated by Fe doms. Te doms I get intimidated by but oddly respect the no b.s.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

have courage and be kind said:


> Not related to typing but I agree with your thoughts on Oprah. I hate when people do that. Unless I'm unsure of my feelings and seek support and advice do not tell me that you know I'm feeling this way or that way. It aggravates me so much when people do that with me and I shut down.
> 
> I always emphasize that this is how I feel about the situation and that I only answer how I would respond.
> 
> I'm not great at typing but I just don't see Fe as your dominant function. That being said I'm still grasping functions but there's a certain directness that - let's just say if I had to say do you come off as a Oprah or a Dr. Phil, I'd say Dr. Phil. There's a blunt quality to you that doesn't have the Fe cushioning I've seen with Fe dominants. It took 3 pages for me to finally leave a reply because I was intimidated by you. I'm never intimidated by Fe doms. Te doms I get intimidated by but oddly respect the no b.s.


That's surprising and disappointing. I should add "Don't be afraid. I promise I don't bite." in my signature now because I'm honestly quite a nice guy if you really know me.
On the other hand, it supports my point of Te dominance since you are intimidated by me. I sense that many people are, which can work against me all too often. Yes I need to get better at putting "fluff" into my words. Sorry that I scared you.
One thing more: thank you very much for the part where you say "respect the no b.s." as I find that very flattering.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Granted, I have my faith in God as a Christian so I have my own beliefs about what is right and wrong, what people should and should not do, and when I see people sinning it really bothers me.


Did someone else introduce religion to you or did you take the initiative to follow a religion? Basically do your values come from yourself or the religion? 



> Well I don't believe Oprah when she says "this is how I feel and I know that every other woman feels this way". Are you kidding me? She believes every woman feels the same way, as if she knows how each and every one of them feel? Have they told her? If they have, how do we know they were telling the truth unless it was a lie detector test? Then again, I've heard many times that there are ways to trick that test. But I digress. My point is that I would never pretend to know for sure what anybody is feeling. That's ridiculous.


Oprah is a dominant Fe user. She absorbs people's raw emotions first. It seems you are having a hard time understanding Oprah's point of view which does make me wonder if you use dominant Te/use low Fi over dominant Fe. And by the way, as a woman, I was touched by her commercial. As a woman, I could put myself in her shoes very easily. 

So how do you know for sure what someone is feeling then? Only by what they tell you they are feeling?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Did someone else introduce religion to you or did you take the initiative to follow a religion? Basically do your values come from yourself or the religion?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I might _guess_ what somebody is feeling by looking at them, but I wouldn't say I _know_ unless we discussed it, yes.
I don't agree with everything in the Bible so that must mean that my values come mostly from myself. My parents allowed me to decide for myself whether I would choose to follow Christ or not, and apparently I chose to follow Him.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I might guess what somebody is feeling by looking at them, but I wouldn't say I know unless we discussed it, yes.
> I don't agree with everything in the Bible so that must mean that my values come mostly from myself. My parents allowed me to decide for myself whether I would choose to follow Christ or not, and apparently I chose to follow Him.


This does kind of sound like Te over Fe. But can you tell me in more detail why you think you use Te over Fe? Why did Entropic think you are a Fe user? And your original post said something like a lot of people think you're an ESFJ?


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> This does kind of sound like Te over Fe. But can you tell me in more detail why you think you use Te over Fe? Why did Entropic think you are a Fe user? And your original post said something like a lot of people think you're an ESFJ?


Okay, so three questions, then.
1) According to the descriptions of Te and Fe of a website which is referenced below, Fe sounds gross while Te sounds like me.
Cognitive Functions at a Glance - CelebrityTypes.com

I will answer both 2 and 3 below.
He must have assumed that since he has Te and I seem to have a personality that is very different from his, I must not have Te. He must have also assumed that since I seek validation from others in order to gain a certain sense of confidence about my type, that I use Fe more strongly. A lot INTJs have claimed that I am a Feeler or have Fe in general. I believe that they are probably just bad at recognizing STJs in general, since the Si/Ne axis is probably not something they are familiar with. According to stereotype, INTJs are narcissistic, so they care mostly about themselves and what they want. When they see somebody helping others they assume Fe. However, if somebody helps others because they like doing so for the way it makes them feel, that is Fi. I have never encountered an INTJ who genuinely cared about helping others. That disturbs me on a very deep and personal level, but I shall refrain from voicing my judgment about that.
One thing more: it is incredibly easy to mistake Enneagram 9 traits for Fe since 9's are Peacemakers who fear conflict, especially since it is very rare for anybody with dominant or auxiliary Te to be a 9.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Okay, so three questions, then.
> 1) According to the descriptions of Te and Fe of a website which is referenced below, Fe sounds gross while Te sounds like me.
> Cognitive Functions at a Glance - CelebrityTypes.com


Why does Fe sound gross to you? 



> I will answer both 2 and 3 below.
> He must have assumed that since he has Te and I seem to have a personality that is very different from his, I must not have Te. He must have also assumed that since I seek validation from others in order to gain a certain sense of confidence about my type, that I use Fe more strongly


. 

"He must have also assumed that since I seek validation from others in order to gain a certain sense of confidence about my type, that I use Fe more strongly." I have thought that about you too. I mean this thread is 24 pages long. I can see where one might think you need to talk about your feelings in order to understand how you feel, which would = Fe. 

And then you didn't come up with several different possibilities for why Entropic had his view, which would suggest very weak Ne. 



> A lot INTJs have claimed that I am a Feeler or have Fe in general. I believe that they are probably just bad at recognizing STJs in general, since the Si/Ne axis is probably not something they are familiar with. According to stereotype, INTJs are narcissistic, so they care mostly about themselves and what they want. When they see somebody helping others they assume Fe. However, if somebody helps others because they like doing so for the way it makes them feel, that is Fi. I have never encountered an INTJ who genuinely cared about helping others. That disturbs me on a very deep and personal level, but I shall refrain from voicing my judgment about that.


It seems like you are wanting to stereotype INTJ's, which does make me wonder if that's Fe talking. "So they care mostly about themselves and what they want." - That does sound like a Fe user criticizing a Fi user. 



> One thing more: it is incredibly easy to mistake Enneagram 9 traits for Fe since 9's are Peacemakers who fear conflict, especially since it is very rare for anybody with dominant or auxiliary Te to be a 9.


Yes, I've studied the enneagram for quite a while. And I doubt you are a type 9.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Why does Fe sound gross to you?
> 
> "He must have also assumed that since I seek validation from others in order to gain a certain sense of confidence about my type, that I use Fe more strongly." I have thought that about you too. I mean this thread is 24 pages long. I can see where one might think you need to talk about your feelings in order to understand how you feel, which would = Fe.
> 
> ...


Fe sounds gross because I read the description and my initial thought was one of disgust. It is nothing like me.
So you think I have weak/nonexistent Ne, and use Fe. So what do you think my type would be, then?
You're just one person. Several ENFJs discussed my type with me and observed Te, Si, and Ne from their own understanding.

This really seems to be going nowhere. Nobody on PerC of two different types can seem to agree about my Enneagram or MBTI type. This is so frustrating. What am I supposed to do, give up completely?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Fe sounds gross because I read the description and my initial thought was one of disgust. It is nothing like me.
> So you think I have weak/nonexistent Ne, and use Fe. So what do you think my type would be, then?
> You're just one person. Several ENFJs discussed my type with me and observed Te, Si, and Ne from their own understanding.


Yes, but WHY does Fe sound gross to you? Why is it nothing like you?

Yes, obviously I am just one person. I'm not sure if that was an insult to me or not. If you don't want my opinion anymore just say so. 

No, I have not concluded yet if you use Fe or not. I'm just trying to gather all of the data and analyze your answers.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Yes, but WHY does Fe sound gross to you? Why is it nothing like you?
> 
> Yes, obviously I am just one person. I'm not sure if that was an insult to me or not. If you don't want my opinion anymore just say so.
> 
> No, I didn't say I think you use Fe. I'm just trying to analyze your answers and gather all of the data.


Not sure how to explain. It just doesn't. If it was like me, then I would be happy upon reading the description.
No, it wasn't meant to be an insult. Just a fact that I thought we ought to realize.
Okay, there are some things I need to do, and this is starting to stress me out. I'm taking a break and leaving for a little while. If you happen to say anything further, I'll get back with you later.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Not sure how to explain. It just doesn't. If it was like me, then I would be happy upon reading the description.
> No, it wasn't meant to be an insult. Just a fact that I thought we ought to realize.
> Okay, there are some things I need to do, and this is starting to stress me out. I'm taking a break and leaving for a little while. If you happen to say anything further, I'll get back with you later.


Ok. Well, that fact was already obvious to me lol. If this is stressing you out then I also think taking a break is best for you.


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ok. Well, that fact was already obvious to me lol. If this is stressing you out then I also think taking a break is best for you.


I think I'm better now.
:tongue:

I just want to arrive at a conclusion that somebody else, that is informed about me, won't disagree with, and that I am certain of.


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> I think I'm better now.
> 
> I just want to arrive at a conclusion that somebody else, that is informed about me, won't disagree with, and that I am certain of.


Ok. Good :happy:

So what are your thoughts now? 

Which function were you using when stressed? 

Inferior Fi:

Inferior Fi - Funky MBTI in Ficiton

Inferior Ti:

Inferior Ti - Funky MBTI in Ficiton


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## Super Luigi (Dec 1, 2015)

Kitty23 said:


> Ok. Good :happy:
> 
> So what are your thoughts now?
> 
> ...


Sounds like inferior Ti is great at analyzing everything and actually coming up with answers to what is wrong with them or a situation. Sometimes I'm way too hard on myself and others but ever finding answers for that... I have no idea.
I have no idea how to answer all your "why" questions. To me, all the stuff just speaks for itself.

It's terrible because as far back as I can remember I have always been the one asking why because I want to understand things, and other people have been exasperated at my questioning, but I still wanted to know. Now here you are, as others have on PerC, asking me why and I am overwhelmed because I do not know how to respond.
I guess I am now experiencing first-hand the frustration I put others through before.

I was thinking about this earlier:
Fe is more concerned with helping others because of some sort of expectation or society says so, so I should go along and do what everybody else is doing in that way.
Fi is more concerned with helping others because they want to, regardless of any external pressure. In fact, when others pressure me to do something I don't want to, I become extremely stubborn about not going along with it.

In terms of functions, perhaps I am an extrovert. Behaviorally, though, I usually can't think of things to talk about when I'm around other people. Usually I just sit, listen, and smile a lot if I feel awkward. That's because I often put my foot in my mouth when I talk so the only way I can think to cope is just to smile at myself while thinking "Ugh, I'm such an idiot for just saying that". I talk to myself when I'm alone, though, and I wonder (without an answer) why I can't do that as easily when I'm around people.

Since you brought it up, what do you think my Enneagram is?


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## Kitty23 (Dec 27, 2015)

> Fe is more concerned with helping others because of some sort of expectation or society says so, so I should go along and do what everybody else is doing in that way.
> Fi is more concerned with helping others because they want to, regardless of any external pressure. In fact, when others pressure me to do something I don't want to, I become extremely stubborn about not going along with it.


For Fe, it doesn't necessarily have to be society telling them, its just more about external-objective sources. 
Fi is internal and subjective. 

How much time do you naturally spend in your head? How aware of your environment are you? 

What is your darkest deepest fear? 

Of being worthless?

Of being bad, imbalanced, defective, corrupt? 

Of being helpless, incompetent, or incapable? 

Of being unloved

Of having no identity or significance

Of being trapped in pain and deprivation? 

Of being without support or guidance

Of loss, separation, and fragmentation? 

Of being harmed, controlled, and violated?


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