# Programming is not an artform



## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

The purpose of programming is to make a machine accomplish whatever goal it is meant to accomplish.
You get the hardware, the machine itself and the software, the brain as such.

Some people claim that programming is an art form, I would like to know how successful these people are and how many bugs their software has upon release.

Art itself is creative, it is not logical.

Where as for programming to be effective, there needs to be planning involved.

Without planning, you will just create a mess.
And with planning it is not really an art.

Imagine being given the task of creating a system that uses 3D graphics to simulate Automatic Spacecraft Docking.

Im sorry but you cant just Program that sort of shit on the fly.
It will take planning. SO therefore it is not art.


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## Another Lost Cause (Oct 6, 2015)

I think people conflate having a style as being art. Different programmers can definitely develop different styles. Whether you want to call that art, I'll leave up to others. I think it'd be closer to engineering. I've seen civil engineers with very different styles for drawing up plans and how they portray details (which can be annoying), but they all get to the same results.


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

cybersloth81 said:


> Some people claim that programming is an art form,


Totally depends what you're programming.

If you're doing route programming and getting told what to do, it is not creative.

If you are the person with the vision of building something which has never existed before, and you're making a new information creation, it is art.

Programming is then the venue of expression for the art. Just like English may or may not be art. English can be reduced to route logic.

If you open up a English book on grammer, it's really not artistic at all... but the mechanics in there can be used to build art.

For example, you could invent a new programming language on fractals, and output art, and the idea itself is quite creative...

Google's DeepDream Discovers Fractals

So this was a person who decided to reverse feed neural networks which likely had never been done before.

Now, I would agree, the only creative portion to it, was the idea itself... the idea to reverse feed the neural network and see what happens... it then produced art based on pure logic. Yet there is creativity in the idea's formation.

Much like the first person to invent math was being creative.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

cybersloth81 said:


> Art itself is creative, it is not logical.
> 
> Where as for programming to be effective, there needs to be planning involved.
> 
> ...


Yeah, because Michelangelo sure as hell didn't plan his David statue... Or did he?

From Merriam-Webster:


> Full Definition of ART
> 
> 
> 1
> ...


I'd say programming falls under or touches at least the following definitions:
1, 2a, 2b, 3, 4, 5a

So yes, programming can definitely be said to be an art. The facts that not just anyone can get good at it, and that you may solve programming problems in an elegant way just add to the relevance of this description.


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## Catwalk (Aug 12, 2015)

*Programming* - smooth mathematics - formal logic - symbolism - things we never imagined to fit all working together in a flow of unison to the destination point to compose something _magnificent_, are all things beautiful - all things art. 

How *dare* you. 

Logic is not art? How dare... How _*dare*_ you. Look how this magnificent world ticks - and you have the nerve! 

A pity!


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> The purpose of programming is to make a machine accomplish whatever goal it is meant to accomplish.
> You get the hardware, the machine itself and the software, the brain as such.
> 
> Some people claim that programming is an art form, I would like to know how successful these people are and how many bugs their software has upon release.
> ...


Well its Science but Math technically falls under ART, I dont know why but it does. I do not think its an art, I think its a science but it can be used to create art. I think its more accurate to call it a medium in a sense. BTW I can share Art I created with my computer program


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

To be fair some of the people I work with must think programming is art.

The shit does not work, its full of features, er I mean bugs.
The shit does not work

The shit obviously had no plan.

Im beginning to think the Job Title Developer should be replaced by Code Monkey.

Funnily enough there are several baskets of bananna's on the desks.

Anyway lets leave it to support to sort out their mess.

Gimme some System designs and I can probably code something better myself.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

cybersloth81 said:


> To be fair some of the people I work with must think programming is art.
> 
> The shit does not work, its full of features, er I mean bugs.
> The shit does not work
> ...


Isnt code monkey a nickname for programmers?


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

LittleDicky said:


> Isnt code monkey a nickname for programmers?


No when I did computer science an programming I always got told to plan my work otherwise Im just a code monkey.

Hence Systems Analysis before even touching source code.

Creating source code is the easy bit.

I always found the hard part was defining exactly what was needed in a way that was agreeable with developer and client.


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## Nightmaker81 (Aug 17, 2013)

The word "art" is arbitrary anyway. Art really is what you define it and I can see why some people find beauty in programming something


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## Biracial (Sep 8, 2010)

Wait...art isnt logical?


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

Nightmaker81 said:


> The word "art" is arbitrary anyway. Art really is what you define it and I can see why some people find beauty in programming something


Yeah but if everyone defines everything as art. True art loses all value.


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

Yeah I agree with those who've said it depends on what sort of creative licence you've been given.

The guys who programmed Hotline Miami...? _Artists_!!!


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

Also, you could argue that the blueprints to, say, the first nuclear submarine, are art.

Didn't Leonardo DaVinci 'draw' the first helicopter?


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

HAL said:


> Also, you could argue that the blueprints to, say, the first nuclear submarine, are art.
> 
> Didn't Leonardo DaVinci 'draw' the first helicopter?


Would you get in that helicopter if it was based on that drawing a lone.

Sorry but I would rather sit in an Apache which was designed not drawn.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

I think this just comes down to semantics.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Writing and drawing aren't arts either. Programming is just another utensil. Art itself has no real meaning anyway.


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## MisterPerfect (Nov 20, 2015)

Biracial said:


> Wait...art isnt logical?


That is debatable. Some people use Math to make Art but technically Math is still under Art not Science. I dont know why but you know that is college Apparently.



HAL said:


> Also, you could argue that the blueprints to, say, the first nuclear submarine, are art.
> 
> Didn't Leonardo DaVinci 'draw' the first helicopter?


A lot of people dont say Blue prints are Art but I doubt you can draw up blue prints if you dont have artistic ability of some kind. I have seen some terrible Art before. Its a circle with two dots and they say "Its an Elephant". It was not a childs drawing its was a 14 year old. I cant imagine someone like that being able to draw up blue prints. That would just be impossible to read!


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Meh.

It's still art to me.

Hence terms like "state of the art" for technical fields.


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## Caveman Dreams (Nov 3, 2015)

LittleDicky said:


> That is debatable. Some people use Math to make Art but technically Math is still under Art not Science. I dont know why but you know that is college Apparently.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of people dont say Blue prints are Art but I doubt you can draw up blue prints if you dont have artistic ability of some kind. I have seen some terrible Art before. Its a circle with two dots and they say "Its an Elephant". It was not a childs drawing its was a 14 year old. I cant imagine someone like that being able to draw up blue prints. That would just be impossible to read!


I can draw technical diagrams easily enough. But when it comes to being artistic and creative I suck.

I think true art is created with the absence of logic. "Its all emotional man".

Im sure I read something about brain scans or something proving this. Its when people stop engaging their logical mind that true creativity flows. How are you going to do something if your thinking about how to do it. Surely its better to stop thinking and just do it.

Hence the phrase, caught up in your own head.

Become present to the moment and have belief in yourself. It will happen.


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