# Who hasn't questioned their personality type?



## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> alright, how do you mean, you are the most J between Ps then?


Well, as just mentioned, their J world IS NOT unapproachable to me. Most Ps can't do J. I can. Why? I ... am not going there. For whatever reason, J is no mystery to me, even though I am P profoundly.

It's a rather rare quality I seem to have to be able to realte the order types to the chaos types. It transcends every personality system in that specific way.

As such, that is one of the reasons I often speak of order-apology and chaos-apology, terms I coined that will be well defined and discussed in my forthcoming book.

As with all emotive reality, people usually get most comfortable on one side of the divide or the other, and if you MUST know, I am P, but, unlike many chaos types I value and relate to J needs very well, and I restrain my chaos enough with order to make it mostly functional, and moral. I find that wisdom to be rare, in every way, it being wisdom itself, and thus the rarest and most valuable human trait. I still struggle with a specific range of immoral intents and action like everyone, but that awareness of balance and how it is precisely defined emotively, seems to be a mark of distinction for me, and I suppose, one I try to share all the time, here and in my life in general.


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## olonny (Jun 9, 2014)

I haven't. The more I learn about ENTP and about cognitive functions, the more I'm extremely sure I AM an ENTP, no questions there


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## Clare_Bare (Apr 6, 2015)

I've never had a doubt I am ENTP.
Everything is just so spot-on definition wise.

Although I had trouble accepting the 'loves debate' factor!
(but I can see it in me)
IRL, I try to avoid unnecessary 'discussion' as it usually ends badly ...


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

series0 said:


> Well, as just mentioned, their J world IS NOT unapproachable to me. Most Ps can't do J. I can. Why? I ... am not going there. For whatever reason, J is no mystery to me, even though I am P profoundly.
> 
> It's a rather rare quality I seem to have to be able to realte the order types to the chaos types. It transcends every personality system in that specific way.
> 
> ...


Well, all I can say is that in my experience, chaos & order are things that only Js feel the need to define, because it's how their perception sees the world - things that are predictable/structured and things that aren't. Basically there is no such thing as order or chaos, they are relative concepts that arise from the Js need to control their environment so that they don't have to adapt (which is how Jung defined their difference too). A P type only has issues when another person (J usually) tries to enforce their "order" on them, if based on arbitrary rules that hinder their potential progress. I don't think there's anything chaotic in the universe, it's not a tangible quality of it.


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## series0 (Feb 18, 2013)

Red Panda said:


> Well, all I can say is that in my experience, chaos & order are things that only Js feel the need to define, because it's how their perception sees the world - things that are predictable/structured and things that aren't. Basically there is no such thing as order or chaos, they are relative concepts that arise from the Js need to control their environment so that they don't have to adapt (which is how Jung defined their difference too). A P type only has issues when another person (J usually) tries to enforce their "order" on them, if based on arbitrary rules that hinder their potential progress. I don't think there's anything chaotic in the universe, it's not a tangible quality of it.


Ah, and then, as mentioned, you are P indeed, a chaos-apologist. You would like then perhaps to presume, as your words indicate here, that J types are essentially in error in being. They are not.

The juxtaposed aims of reductionism and unity seeking are BOTH simultaneously moral, as moral as each other. Neither is more or less correct than the other.

Morality is NOT relative, which seems again to be what you are contending. So, whether us Ps like it or not, objective moral truth is a tyranny, the only good tyranny, of love, on us all. So, enforcing the proper order, love, is already accomplished. That is why both external rewards and external punishments are immoral. Love is always on the job and has taken care of it. Of course amid love we do restrain (not punish) that which has a pattern of immoral behavior. And amid restraint is retraining, and a dedication to return the restrained parties to full agency. 

I think chaos is a very tangible quality. It amounts to all desire, energy, as effervescent. Fear is order. And anger is presence in between pushing back and balancing both fear and desire.

All life is an expression of chaos. As life stretches into the future, its growth is random, a quality of all life then is chaos. This is also just desire and can be expressed only in those terms. Fear then is associated with death, and stagnation, satisfaction, etc. a cold and sterile aim. But life and death are required for the process of growth and renewal. 

Chaos is also tangible, not just effervescent. If we take it down to the atomic level chaos is the electron map (behavioral map) of an atom, whereas order is the structure overall and the identity/class of the element. 

Anyway, Ps make an error when they refuse to define things, and Js make an error when they refuse to change that definition. having an understanding that we believe in and bank on right now, as well as a healthy commitment to change; both, are required to be morally healthy.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

series0 said:


> Ah, and then, as mentioned, you are P indeed, a chaos-apologist. You would like then perhaps to presume, as your words indicate here, that J types are essentially in error in being. They are not.
> 
> The juxtaposed aims of reductionism and unity seeking are BOTH simultaneously moral, as moral as each other. Neither is more or less correct than the other.
> 
> ...


I don't believe morality is subjective. And I don't think you understood what I said, unfortunately, but I don't want to say any more because this is way too off topic.


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## Strelnikov (Jan 19, 2018)

I started out thinking I was an INTJ 1, now I know I'm an ENTJ 8.

It took me quite a long time to fully understand all the nuances of the theory. Because I could tell quite easily the cognitive functions I was using, but the exact order wasn't clear to me. It really helped me identify my type when I talked to other people and listened to other people and their experiences. Because I realised that although I use Ni, it's less complex for me than the way INTJs use it. Also, the key thing was finding which was the inferior function.

Regarding the Enneagram type, I didn't really sense that any type description matched me enough for me to say: that's me! But I once saw a description of 8w9 around here, which sounds quite different from the classic 8 type description. Now THAT WAS me!

And looking back, I think the 9 wing explains why I'm quite balanced between introversion and extroversion. I don't have the classic energy and activity levels one would associate with the stereotypical ENTJ 8. I guess this is why I felt reluctant in a way to say I was an ENTJ.


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