# Are Thinkers More Immune To Manipulation?



## custard (Apr 3, 2014)

Like some have said, I think it depends on what type of manipulation.
I'm somewhere around ENTP and INTP. For me, feelings-related manipulation that people tried to do to me never worked. It made me laugh a lot (not in front of them however), but most of the time I'd just go with the flow and see what they'd do next.
I've used logical reasoning to manipulate a thinker before (it worked). (some tried it on me, but it didn't work. It's sort of obvious when they did it. _But who knows... maybe I'm being manipulated and I didn't noticed because they're too good!_ XD haha)

So I guessed it's the type of manipulation used. Does Ti and Te or Fi and Fe have anything to do with it? I've read a lot have said of Te and Fi.

But it may also depend on how much you've learnt from experience? -but as far as I know, I was never manipulated (I just know when they're trying to manipulate me and it's sort of funny), and people gave up trying to manipulate me into doing anything too soon.

It could also be that I like doing what I want and rarely cater to anyone's bidding.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

custard said:


> I've used logical reasoning to manipulate a thinker before (it worked). (some tried it on me, but it didn't work. It's sort of obvious when they did it. _But who knows... maybe I'm being manipulated and I didn't noticed because they're too good!_ XD haha)
> 
> So I guessed it's the type of manipulation used. Does Ti and Te or Fi and Fe have anything to do with it? I've read a lot have said of Te and Fi.


I didn't make a point of intellectual manipulation though I can relate to this. It's easier to manipulate me, a thinker, with logic. If you can make something make sense I'm more prone to be agreeable. If I find out an intellectual manipulation has occurred, I won't be as angry as with emotional attempts. I'll think more along the lines, 'well played, now it's my turn.'


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## Belzy (Aug 12, 2013)

If you think of emotionally manipulation...

But what if you think of manipulation through making so called ''logical sense''...


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## surgery (Apr 16, 2010)

lol no, it's so easy push my ENTJ grandfather's or my ESTJ and IXTJ uncles' buttons. They get irritable and angry all the time if you don't take their advice or think their opinion is spot on. I am not manipulative enough that I could get them to do what i want, but I know they're definitely not immune to being manipulated by their wives.


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## SneazyMyartin14 (Apr 28, 2014)

I think that anyone can become immune to manipulation. It depends mostly on how intelligent you are, who is trying to manipulate you and how well you can handle it emotionally.


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

surgery said:


> lol no, it's so easy push my ENTJ grandfather's or my ESTJ and IXTJ uncles' buttons. They get irritable and angry all the time if you don't take their advice or think their opinion is spot on. I am not manipulative enough that I could get them to do what i want, but I know they're definitely not immune to being manipulated by their wives.


That means you can maliciously get them to become emotional by intentionally devaluing their opinions. That sounds like an easy and readily available avenue to manipulate them into an angry and less rational state.


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## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

Belladonne said:


> As an ENTJ, I find it absolutely hilarious when someone tries to sweet-talk or charm me or put me down (or even flirt) and be manipulative and try to play with my feelings on purpose. All the emotion they use doesn't even register; it's pretty much a drop in the ocean. Short of something seriously crossing my Fi, emotionally, I rarely give a shit about it.
> 
> Do you reckon Thinkers are more immune to manipulation? Whilst some Feelers may be seen as more "emotionally mature," being a Thinker gives you the advantage of not even _caring_ so much about feelings or having them in the first place, which is undoubtedly a good thing when you're trying to be rational.
> 
> Not to insult the lovely Feelers on here, ofc, who have their own strengths :tongue:


I would love to provide my input in this thread, but it scares me that you are dealing with Keirsey definitions in here


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## surgery (Apr 16, 2010)

Irondust said:


> That means you can maliciously get them to become emotional by intentionally devaluing their opinions. That sounds like an easy and readily available avenue to manipulate them into an angry and less rational state.



Lol, no. That’s not the case at all. I never disagree with them for the sake of being annoying. I’m disagree with them when I genuinely don’t feel what they have to say is a good idea. I remember one time, at an airport in Spain, my ENTJ grandfather advised me to cut in front of couple. That way each of us would be in separate lines, so when one of us reached the desk first, the other would just come over. I couldn’t believe my ears when I heard him--he just blantantly asked me to cut as if it was nothing. I didn’t do it and he got all flustered :/


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## Doll (Sep 6, 2012)

It depends. Maybe they'll be more immune to emotional manipulation, but there are other ways to manipulate people - and skilled manipulators would skip over the emotional aspect if they sensed that emotion wasn't the way to go.


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## Mutant Hive Queen (Oct 29, 2013)

Kavik said:


> I think a feeler easily has the ability to detect emotional manipulation, though they may be more inclined to play along.
> 
> I have a hundred mile bullshit detector and tend to react immediately to emotional manipulation in an aggressive manner. I point out their manipulation, cutting right down to what they are trying to accomplish and why it won't work, not caring if they'll be offended. There's a sort of pleasure in watching an individual's face contort when they realize their trap failed.


Unless, of course, the intent of the trap was to make you look like an aggressive jerk to people around the both of you. :tongue:

People have pulled that on me before. I know. XD


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

surgery said:


> Lol, no. That’s not the case at all. I never disagree with them for the sake of being annoying. I’m disagree with them when I genuinely don’t feel what they have to say is a good idea. I remember one time, at an airport in Spain, my ENTJ grandfather advised me to cut in front of couple. That way each of us would be in separate lines, so when one of us reached the desk first, the other would just come over. I couldn’t believe my ears when I heard him--he just blantantly asked me to cut as if it was nothing. I didn’t do it and he got all flustered :/


True, but just because you personally don't have the desire to manipulate them doesn't necessarily mean they aren't easily manipulated. I realize this isn't savory but getting a rival or enemy agitated enough to make blunders is a classic manipulation tactic. Annoying a person can serve a purpose and those with a conspicuous berserk button are easy victims.


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## Kavik (Apr 3, 2014)

Chained Divinity said:


> Unless, of course, the intent of the trap was to make you look like an aggressive jerk to people around the both of you. :tongue:
> 
> People have pulled that on me before. I know. XD


Then they played on my weakness and I came off looking like a jerk. That's more of an intellectual manipulation with an emotional mask.


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## Dao (Sep 13, 2013)

By the way — I think the very fact that anyone's Fi or Fe can be incensed in such a way so as to make them go berserk means they are potentially easily manipulated. You can be impervious to a billion and one scenarios but having one special idea or value or even person that nearly _everyone _knows attacking will produce a negative reaction means you have an obvious weakness that can be leveraged to perhaps terrible effect.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

I really don't think so. Being a "T" does not mean not having emotions, though they're _less _likely to be influenced by emotion when making decisions. I've known some Ts who seem pretty easily to manipulate, if you play your cards right... using human psychological tactics, which don't always deal with surface emotion at all. Actually I can think of a few ways where this might be used to an advantage, especially if you know the person.


There are different ways to be F or T, too. Some Fs are so keen to process their own emotions, that they'll do so thoroughly before making any major decision, and this can make emotional manipulation more difficult. Some Fs are so in tune with the emotions and intentions of others, they will spot it right away, so maybe they'll put a stop to it. Then again, those people may also have a harder time detaching and saying "no", so may end up being manipulated even consciously. I don't know.


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

I'd think a high EQ would mean you were more likely to recognise signs of manipulation, so anyone with high EQ would be more immune. I don't think it's type-based.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

It's a wisdom thing, not a type one.


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## HBIC (Feb 28, 2014)

Belladonne said:


> As an ENTJ, *I find it absolutely hilarious when someone tries to sweet-talk or charm me or put me down (or even flirt) and be manipulative and try to play with my feelings on purpose. All the emotion they use doesn't even register; it's pretty much a drop in the ocean. Short of something seriously crossing my Fi, emotionally, I rarely give a shit about it.*
> 
> Do you reckon Thinkers are more immune to manipulation? Whilst some Feelers may be seen as more "emotionally mature," being a Thinker gives you the advantage of not even _caring_ so much about feelings or having them in the first place, which is undoubtedly a good thing when you're trying to be rational.
> 
> Not to insult the lovely Feelers on here, ofc, who have their own strengths :tongue:


That's exactly how I experience it too.

I definetel think we are prone to be immune to_ emotional _manipulation because we can see right through it. But not all Thinkers are immune to factual or logical manipulation.



Kavik said:


> I think a feeler easily has the ability to detect emotional manipulation, though they may be more inclined to play along.
> 
> *I have a hundred mile bullshit detector and tend to react immediately to emotional manipulation in an aggressive manner. I point out their manipulation, cutting right down to what they are trying to accomplish and why it won't work, not caring if they'll be offended. There's a sort of pleasure in watching an individual's face contort when they realize their trap failed.*


I take incredible pleasure in this too.



an absurd man said:


> Not necessarily; there are ways to manipulate without leveraging emotions.
> 
> ex. misinformation, gaslighting, deception, political maneuvering, a plan/idea that sounded logical and you were convinced to support but turned out to be stupid as hell in practice


Exactly. You have to have you're head in the game at all times and remember knowledge it's power in order to be safe.



queenisidore said:


> I'm an ENFP so I'm a Feeler but I'm VERY good at spotting manipulation. I tend to ignore it and file it away in my brain cabinet for later. *Emotional manipulation is different; I try not to but I sometimes react the way they want. However, how I react also depends on the person.* My dad has a higher chance of getting a reaction than some random person.
> 
> I don't know if Thinkers are better at spotting manipulation but they certainly _react _differently. *They may not let it get to them as much as a Feeler who's having their buttons pushed will.*


Spot on, that's the difference.


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## Van Meter (Sep 28, 2012)

Introverted intuition is pretty resilient against that. It usually is pointed to desires that have nothing to do with manipulative goals.


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## sacrosanctsun (May 20, 2014)

This is a pretty touchy topic with me. I am not a T, but in enneagram I'm a 5. (INFP)

I have been emotionally manipulated my entire life. Living with a parent manipulator is a living nightmare. And the worst part is, the parent more often than not, does not realize the harm they are inflicting. They think they are doing the right thing by leading their child in the "right" direction. Even when the manipulation scenario is pointed out to them over and over. Explanations are always turned back around or denied. It is never the manipulator that is at fault. There isn't anything wrong with their logic. It is always someone else, how they are wrong, and how something is wrong with them.

I like to think I am pretty intelligent (but then again, don't we all?). It has only been until the past year I've really realized what she's been doing. I think going to College and returning home has made it extremely clear to me that the dynamics in my household are anything but healthy. We work very hard to be harmonious, but we are by no means healthy or functional.

God I feel so awful for my Dad. His company at work isn't going well, he as to live with Mom who is the manipulator... He has to watch her intervene with his children's life. And he always has taken two steps away from the family because he recognized her infringing upon us. To compensate, he backed off... but that allowed her to take control. 

Another sad thing is her life is about us. It's not about her. She doesn't really have any hobbies. She has a few friends but... really she just works, goes to the gym sometimes, watches tv... and tries to "guide" her children (probably just so she can vicariously live through our achievements and brag...)

The only plus side is, my siblings and I are pretty intelligent since we've had to appease her. They are both T types. They are by no means "immune" to her influence, but technically they cannot escape. One of my brother's who is definitely a T was always bullied by her about his weight. She would make comments behind his back about it and would always use the word "fatty" to describe the cat. I watched as he also picked up the habit. This year I watched as he stopped eating what I would consider to be a healthy diet in order to loose weight. And it worked. Just in time for him to leave this place and go to college. He never smiles at home. But he smiles with his friends. I'm thankful for that.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

"Please", "thank you", "your welcome", "I insist", "with a cherry on top". None of these phrases seem to affect me.


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