# Can men and women really be JUST friends?



## DB Cooper

Which was not what the OP asked, and was what I was referring to.


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## SuburbanLurker

DB Cooper said:


> Which was not what the OP asked, and was what I was referring to.


Then you shouldn't have quoted me.


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## MuChApArAdOx

Again. I thought this was hashed out to death on another thread. Well while i'm here i won't troll, i'll respond

Lets see. My neighbour and i are good friends, he is male. My brothers are my friends. My male cousins are my friends. My 2 brother-in-laws are my friends. Many of my ex BF are still my friends. Some of my male co-workers are my friends. All of my husbands male friends are my friends. My male Dr. is my friend. My male dentist is my friend. So yeah, men and women can be just friends.


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## Life.Is.A.Game

SuburbanLurker said:


> Yes, I guess we do have different ideas of "feelings". I don't equate lust to romantic feelings despite their often accompanying one another.


You didn't answer the other questions I had... If you started having feelings for your boss, would you quit your job?

Feelings don't mean lust to me, but according to your 3 rules of friendship and to the fact that if you don't "act on your feelings" it means masochism then I assumed you meant sexual frustration. Do you act on every feeling you have? What if you have a feeling of murdering someone?


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## MegaTuxRacer

Yes, in my experience, men can universally be friends with women. I can see why feelings _could_ develop from a friendship, but I know of multiple friendships, some of them my own, that work for various reasons.


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## firedell

Yes of course they can. I'm one of those girls that have more male friends than female. So I can't be trusted? This is new.

The problem lies when one or both parties find the other attractive. That's when they can't just be "friends".


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## Paradox1987

Someone should start a chart to see the frequency of this question. I think it may have cycles like the phases of the moon :laughing:.

Anyway. It depends. My best friend is a woman, I have more female friends than male friends. I prefer their company. I do not befriend people for the sole purpose of retaining the option to one day screw them, that'd be creepy. I hope that my female friends aren't hoping to screw me one day. Realistically, the folk in my group of friends who did try and get with each other had awful relationships that didn't last. You know those things that drive you mad about your friends but you overlook? If you start a romantic relationship with them, those traits become dry kindling just waiting for a spark. 

If you ask me, being friends is easier than being more than friends. Platonic connections and romantic connections are different things and can be kept separate. If one person wants a non-platonic relationship and the other wants a platonic, then you can't be 'just' friends, it's too awkward and frustrating at that point.


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## nakkinaama

Yes they can. Question solved. Shall we move on?


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## Sai

only depending on the situation. You can be best friend like with your brothers GF or something like that. In other ways, i dont think so.


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## lemonade

To answer your question without reading most of the posts before this one, yes, males and females can be just friends. I'm an ISTP, and I can be quite manly, or non-feminine for a female. This is why I make friends with many of the TP types. I'm not frivolous and a drama magnet, I hang out with nerds like myself. I have loads of guy friends (TPs), and they're all just friends to me. I could be girlfriend material, but it's more comfortable and less awkward for us to just remain as "friends."

So yes it is possible to be just friends with the opposite gender.


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## Shinji Mimura

Yes


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## TragicallyHip

I do think men and women can be friends. But in my experience, men will not invest time and attention into a relationship with a woman unless they believe or want to think there is a chance at more than friendship. In college, I had a male friend who suffered from unrequited love. We hung out a lot. He never made a move or indicated anything other than friendship. But I have no doubt in my mind that had I at any point said, "you wanna get busy?" he'd have been all over it.


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## Death Persuades

I opine that the people on that forum do not reflect everybody in a proportionate manner. I'm sure many people feel that way, but throughout my life most of my friends have been female and rarely was I interested in any of them.


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## DB Cooper

SuburbanLurker said:


> Then you shouldn't have quoted me.



Interesting spin you use to defect logic. I was simply attempting to explain to you what mature adults are capable of, which for whatever reason, you were not understanding.


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## gurlcorporate

Unless they're not attracted to each other at all, then, no.


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## heylena

Women and men can be friends. I've seen it. They're people. What's the big deal? I've come to realize that if you don't think this way, then you're mainly thinking with your penis/ovaries. Yes, a girl might start falling for her closest guy friend, but that doesn't mean she can't be his friend. 

From personal experience, I started falling for someone who was considering marrying his girlfriend (and is now, engaged to her), but one has to realize the desired dominating factor: one's (sexual) attraction to the person or the fact that the friendship/relationship is more important than revealing one's romantic interest in the person. I valued his friendship over my own feelings, and he is actually that one person that I can go to no matter what. It is nice having a person who understands you so well that you don't have to explain yourself. 

Believe it or not, you're friends with people that you are attracted to. Attraction is not just sexual. You might have girlfriends or guyfriends that you aren't sexually attracted to, but you were attracted to them in the fact that there is something that attracted you to them as to develop the friendship between you two.


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## StElmosDream

Sure why not (admittedly I do reflect on how I feel about people as well or how I could feel about people in reality) but its not to say it doesn't work, just depends on how deeply meaning connections are interpreted (have experienced mistaken attraction from seeming too affectionate in unrequited platonic friendship and experienced misinterpretation of intentions)... seems common though for people unfamiliar or unprepared for INFJ desire for depth of connections.


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## SuburbanLurker

Life.Is.A.Game said:


> You didn't answer the other questions I had... If you started having feelings for your boss, would you quit your job?


I don't see how you can relate a chosen friendship to a forced professional relationship. Although if the feelings are strong enough it might warrant a transfer or getting a different job altogether. Such relationships _can_ exist, I just don't think they're healthy for anyone.


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## Playful Proxy

Both parties would have to have no attraction of the other for it to work. Friendship is halfway there to a relationship. All that is left needed in the recipe is attraction. Usually one side will be more attractive than the other (likelihood of both being unattractive subjectively to the other person is VERY low) and thus, the opposite will develop feelings. 

Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Not at all. Note: some guys pretend to be friends with girls for this purpose, but in reality, it's really funny what the guy has to say about her once she denies him a chance at sex (mainly because he hated being around her to begin with, but just wanted sex). A good looking body and pretty smile are the only two reasons I actually don't mind hanging around some girls...take that out, some are just a bunch of whiny gossipy bitches.


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## Ayia

yes. if not, a lot of my friendships are lies. Including the guy who started being my friend while dating other girls. and asking me for advice... 

it might be that I'm just not all that pretty. but anyways it proves that it's possible.


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## DB Cooper

SuburbanLurker said:


> Unethical? Seriously? I think I'm going to make an effort to avoid you from now on.


And the purpose of telling me this was?


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## Uviteru

Yes men and women can just be friends. I have many friends of both genders and my best friend happens to be female but I've never had any romantic or sexual interest in her (and I don't believe she ever has had any in me) 

It's perfectly normal to have friends of both genders who are "just friends"


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## pinkrasputin

Omg. Over, and over and over again..... 

Please
Sticky
This 
Thread


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## PlacentaCake

A lot of women are oblivious, including myself...


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## Rachel Something

pinkrasputin said:


> Omg. Over, and over and over again.....
> 
> Please
> Sticky
> This
> Thread


I swear, there needs to be a sticky thread for this, as well as the whole "Nice Guys" topic.


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## Mr. Meepers

Well, I'm pretty sure bisexual and bi-romantic people have friends, so I'm going to say yes ^__^
When I am in a relationship, I am not as attracted to other women as I am when I am single ... I can still be attracted, but, I guess, I just don't think about it as much because I am already with someone I want to be with and I am much, much more attracted to them ... And if I am single, I can like and/or be attracted (not just sexually) to aspects of certain woman which may encourage a friendship, but I won't always be attracted to a particular female friend as a whole (there maybe somethings I am not attracted too). ... Don't get me wrong, I love all my female friends, but I am not in love with all my female friends, nor do I lust after all of them .... (except in my imagination where I strip them :wink: of their personality and imagine them with a personality that is really into my fetishes :laughing: ... my imagination has been around the block a lot :crazy



Promethea said:


> Of course not. Clearly every man in the world is going to fall madly in love with me or want to fuck me simply because I'm a female - and this will cause him to to suffer greatly in my presence when we are say, out to lunch or going bowling. Attraction is very simple - everyone of the opposite sex is attracted to each other merely because they have different types of genitals. There are no other requirements.



YOU ARE A FEMALE ... *swoon* <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 :wink:

I am way too easy lol ... OR I'm attracted to your sense of humor :wink: ..... Both ^__^




Life.Is.A.Game said:


> So ultimately it's up to the woman then.. right?
> 
> Whether the guy is tagging along in case he eventually gets laid or he really is in it for the friendship, it seems like ultimately the girl makes the call. Cool!


Everything is always up to the woman :wink: .... Okay, I'm just easy (and my imagination is working against me :crazy




Promethea said:


> If they are actually attracted - sure. Basically I just don't think everyone is attracted to everyone else merely on account of being of the opposite sex. And a lot of men want some kind of emotional connection before porking someone - a connection that doesn't always happen in a -just- friendship.
> 
> I have known a few guys who have said they're waiting for a girlfriend/love to lose their virginity - instead of just hooking up with someone. I have certainly known guys who wouldn't want to complicate a friendship with sex, guys who see female friends as sisterly, other various reasons dealing with ethics, emotions, or pragmatics.


Exactly ... and not just some men, but some women too ^__^ ... Some people ^__^


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## Raichan

At the risk of sounding so judgmental.... this is going on again? After another thread? And now it's stickied? What the..?

YES men and women can be just friends. Would you willingly fall in love or just have sex with just any (and I mean, _any_) member of the opposite sex just for giving you quality time? :dry:


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## EbonyTigger

Of course males and females can be just friends, I've had male friends before and there was never a hint of anything stronger than friendship.


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## Aenima__

In my experiences. Ive had it to where I had been friends with males that have had crushes on me for years! And I never knew til one day I was single and they spilled the beans. And I gave no signs that I wanted to be with my male friends... *shrugs

Then on the other hand Ive had boyfriends with female friends... Sheesh. The drama that had.... And, not from me. It was either they were jealous of me, they had crushes on him and he was too naive to see it or he would "innocently" flirt with them causing them to be confused. Mixed signals. 

Back to the question: No, I dont believe females can be friends with males and vise versa. A lot of people are just not on the same page with "who wants what"... As in "friendship status". Plus, people change their minds, they could say "I see you as a sister" Then a few years later theyre dating. I think its just based on natural human instincts to breed... so hardwired we cant ignore it. And this goes for female/female friends and male/male friends, too.


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## TheBackwardsLegsMan

I find that being asexual helps a lot in this endeavor. I don't know if there's a more specific term for it, but I can still be attracted to people, just not sexually. I get along with females better than most males, but I have never developed romantic feelings for someone I was already friends with. So, speaking as a male who can experience attraction to females, I can and do have female friends that I have no intention of getting involved with romantically.

I have male friends with several female friends that they have specifically told me they would never date/hate sex with. The sheer number of people who have said they have friends of the opposite sex that they have no interest in romantically should serve as proof that it is possible, and does happen. I will admit that it's uncommon because most males will develop sexual attraction to their attractive female friends, but not all of them.

I can't believe this is such a common question that it had to be stickied...


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## Garee

IMO, yes they can but one of them has to be gay and what @*SuburbanLurker* said


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## Pyroscope

There are reasons why *some* men and women can't be friends, but that can't be generalised to all people. As someone intelligently pointed out earlier, bi-sexuals are perfectly capable of having platonic friendships. I think the biggest problem is that many of us are scared of some of our actions (which might be harmless to heterosexual same-sex friends) being interpreted as indication of sexual interest by opposite sex friends. I had a problem a while ago where a friend of mine panicked because I asked to meet up with just her rather than the group stuff we normally do. She was worried that I was asking her on a date, when in fact I just decided I wanted to see some people more one-on-one because group stuff alone didn't feel satisfying.

The other issue is probably how important sex by itself is to the person. Since I don't want to have sex with just anyone and don't feel like I need it then I don't have any difficulty compartmentalising sexual attraction within friendships. I can make it irrelevant to the point where if they *did* actually turn around and say "Hey, you wanna do it?" that I could say no even if I was attracted to them. I can't be the only one who feels this way..?

I would also say that people are fluid enough that we might genuinely find our attraction for people grow from just friendship without going in with that intention. Perhaps these people genuinely did just go into the friendship for the sake of friendship and this friendship grew naturally until they were romantically attracted? There is a less deceptive way of seeing it! In fact, my last relationship was from this situation. Initially we were just friends but it became apparent after a while that she might be intending it to move towards a romantic relationship. I didn't go in expecting that, it just happened naturally after a while.


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## LyricalWhip

I have a lot of male friends just due to my profession. We naturally have a lot in common. Quite honestly, after some confiding in me their real feelings towards certain girls they're dating, I would never want to date them. I will even tell them they're being dirty or being selfish in the name of women, but some of my male friends are straight up dawgs hahaha. Some of my female friends are too soooooo.....

I maintain healthy friendships with my male friends--meaning I make sure not to spend a lot of time with them. Long phone convos a no-no for me with male friends. I prefer just meeting up for lunch or happy hour SOMEtimes or email. If I'm currently in an exclusive relationship, I double date...happy hours after work are definitely out. It just doesn't make sense to me when I'm with someone that makes me happy already. Most of my male friends don't care and will tease me about being "caught up" hahaha. I make a conscious decision to have a hard mark on the start and end of things we may do together. 

I do believe it's possible for men and women to be just friends. But I think it takes making conscious decisions along the way to prevent blurring that line. Some male friendships I value in such a way that I will go out of my way to space time together cause a romance would seriously mess that up in so many epic ways. I don't want to mess that friendship up in any way.


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## ibage

Okay, I get really tired of people asserting that they can't. One of my best friends is female and she's happily married. Granted, her husband and I get along too, but I was friends with her long before I met him. He sees me as no threat and I have zero attraction to her. She simply doesn't have a personality I find attractive. Besides, she's given me a lot of valuable advice and her husband is also a close friend. I wouldn't do anything to burn that bridge. 

Seriously, in this day and age, I find it harder harder and harder to understand why people have this roadblock of mentality.


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## Master Mind

ibage said:


> Okay, I get really tired of people asserting that they can't. One of my best friends is female and she's happily married. Granted, her husband and I get along too, but I was friends with her long before I met him. He sees me as no threat and I have zero attraction to her. She simply doesn't have a personality I find attractive. Besides, she's given me a lot of valuable advice and her husband is also a close friend. I wouldn't do anything to burn that bridge.
> 
> Seriously, in this day and age, I find it harder harder and harder to understand why people have this roadblock of mentality.


I find it baffling how many people believe that it's impossible for heterosexual people to not want to have sex with every single member of the opposite sex one encounters.


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## Tonimiko

Honestly, it's a dangerous thing. I believe the best relationships start from a great friendship, but I guess I was proven wrong recently. If the two pals click, then a relationship may start to blossom. If they don't, they can really be just friends without any emotional attachments. Friendship itself is kind of like long-term dating, and it's hard to keep yourself distant sometimes.


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## DonCoryon

I think men and woman can be friends. How many people do you know? Somewhere around half are the opposite sex. As someone mentioned above, I wouldn't trust a woman, or a man, who only has friends of the opposite sex. In my opinion, that is a clear sign of a player.


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## Philosophaser Song Boy

It has nothing to do with maturity, but with needs. Everyone has different needs and some people, specifically in some cases, just need affection. There is nothing wrong with them for needing that.


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## Rinori

One of my best friends is a girl and there is nothing sexual between us. It can happen that a guy and a girl can have a friendship without anything else. It was tough with everyone thinking that we would make a cute couple or end up married. All her family knows and likes me and vise versa they all though we would be together. It took many year but they eventually realized it wasnt going to happen. Now she has a son and I am the Godfather. That part was very difficult because people though i was the father and that stirred up some problems with the fathers family seeing as I got to the hospital to see her before he did. So all in all it has been rough there have been many rumors too numerous to mention but we are just friends. Best friends I have even slept on the same bed as her more than once and nothing happened. So it is possible for the opposite sex to be friends without moving further.


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## grc21

Yes, unless they're drunk.


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## da_gobbo

i really don't see why this would have to be a problem, its only going to be a problem if someone decides to make things problematic


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## tanstaafl28

Araya said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


Stranger things have been known to happen. I have lots of female friends.


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## Biracial

Yes men and women can be just friends.


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## Chimerical

Araya said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


Well it's very doable.
I was friends with a lot of girls that I wasn't ever attracted to.
But my current best friend, a female I really fucking like.


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## bsrk1

I would say yes under certain circumstances. If they are single, cool, good looking... then probably not, i mean if they are all of those then why would i want to be just friends? But if they are in a relationship when i first meet them, then yeah, i can. Im friends with my friends girl friend.


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## lhebakshyla

Araya said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


Yes, under two conditions...

1. The man never really was attracted to the woman in the first place (ESSENTIAL... Otherwise it's just another nice guy waiting to weasel his way into her pants)
2. They never get too touchy. If they do, sex will happen. Attraction takes a backseat when Oxytocin is being released upon touching.


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## lhebakshyla

bsrk1 said:


> If they are single, cool, good looking... then probably not, i mean if they are all of those then why would i want to be just friends?


No attraction?

Sometimes, people just don't feel attracted to people who are cool and good looking. It's genetic. You need to get out in the real world to find that out for yourself.


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## EmileeArsenic

*Has her Skype activated most of the day, and talks to her friends all over all day*

*looks at her Skype friends list*

*notices how with the exception of three, all on it are male*

*only has anything remotely resembling 'feelings' for one, if not two of the people on that list*

I have a male friend who expressed interest in me a few months back. I didn't reciprocate, we still talk on a near daily basis. We're friends. I'm pretty sure he's moved on and accepted that our relationship will never be anything except platonic.

The others on there, I'm quite fond of, people that I have a lot in common with, some of whom have gotten married or moved abroad, or back home across the world, or whom I've met online who I just adore as people, but would never consider as romantic / sexual partners.

I'm sure the majority feel the same about me. 

So far as I'm concerned, yes, men and women can be friends. If not, I've been doing this whole 'social interaction' thing drastically, drastically wrong... I get along with men WAY better than I do with women. I feel more comfortable around guys, and I tend to like their type of advice when I need it from a friend. I've also had a couple tell me that I should become a therapist because of how 'chill' it is talking to me, even about intense stuff, and how accepting and non-judgmental I am when they have something going on in their lives, or they have an issue they just need to bounce off of someone else. I consider it a HUGE compliment that they choose me and feel comfortable enough around me to let their guard down and be a real person with real life crap to deal with. In my opinion, that's what friends are for: to share in and be happy for you in the good times and to support you and help you get yourself sorted in the bad.

Everyone needs someone to talk to, and if you can't talk to your friends / loved ones, who CAN you talk to?


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## Catcrime

I have no problem being friends with a guy as long as:

We don't find each other mutually attractive + one of us is taken + we have never crossed the friendship line.

All three at once make it very, very difficult.


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## Danah

I always had more male friends than females. I can't bond with women easily. So I say definitely yes!

I find some of them attractive, but that doesn't mean I want to be in a relationship with them. You can be compatible with someone at a friendship level, but not a romantic one.
The thought itself is quite creepy, it would be like dating a brother!


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## sword.and.penguin

Araya said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


One thing people don't realize are the dynamics of a relationship. During different phases in life, the dynamics of a friendship will also change. Can men and women just be friends? Of course, but not close friends. Close friends of the opposite sex are often attracted to each other, whether or not they admit it, there is an attraction there. It's alright if you're both single, but if one person is dating someone else, then they should respect the boundaries of their relationship and distance themselves from their friendships with the opposite sex. 

Men will always be down to do the dirty with a woman, whether they're friends or not. 
Some women will look for affection when they feel they're receiving none, so guy friends will come to mind.

In my mind, I can never just think "Oh, we're always going to be JUST friends", becuase those dynamics will always change. So I don't think that there can ever be 'just friends' because there is always the possibility of that changing when certain events in life bring you together. Its all about the dynamics.


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## sword.and.penguin

Since we're on this topic, I have always thought one thing...

That it is easier for a woman to believe that her guy friends look at her as "just a friend". I think alot of women and men in general have this tendancy of being so open to the opposite sex that they forget to respect boundaries thinking its all fine and dandy. Not all people are like that, and some are truly swayed by the person and develop feelings for them to be met with the dissapointing response "I'm like this with all my friends". 

I don't think that its right for a person to build a false sense of closeness. Especially not with members of the opposite sex. Its as if they're looking for affection, comfort or companionship when its convenient. They'll play charming and all that, but its not real. I think that's one of the dangerous things about becoming friends with someone of the opposite sex. I've learned to become a little colder and more distant towards women to avoid any misunderstandings. It doesn't make me popular by any means, but it keeps my relationships with partners safe and it avoids unneeded drama.


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## Lotan

I'd hope so, or as a bisexual I couldn't be just friends with anybody :wink:

I think people just need to be honest with their intentions. If you want a romantic relationship with someone, say so. Don't pretend you're only interested in friendship if you're not. Look at it this way, I suppose: If you knew for sure there was a 0% chance of ever having a romantic relationship with this person, would you still want to spend time with them? If the answer is no, tell them how you feel instead of hoping that the friendship will naturally blossom into something more.


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## cheapphilosophy

Yes. Men and women can be just friends. It's absurd to make a blanket statement that they cannot be close friends. My best mate is a man. We hang out all the time. We sleep in the same room. We hug. We have disagreements about politics, physics, what sci fi series is the best. We've even lived together. We have never: slept together, kissed, flirted, considered being together. At one point, yes, he was attracted to me. However we both thought that our friendship was preferable to a relationship.

As a bisexual woman, I have many male friends and many female friends. I don't want to be with or sleep with those people, even if I find them attractive. Attraction doesn't automatically mean you want to jump into bed together, nor does it mean friendship is out of the picture.

When I have a friendship with either a man or a woman (in the romantic sense I lean towards women) I'm not looking for affection. That's not why I want to be close to someone. I'm looking for a sparring partnerand someone I can hang out with. Not necause I need closeness or sex.


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## RetroVortex

People have the capacity to be friends with almost anything. 

I mean if a little boy can be friends with a bird or a fly, then a man can be friends with a woman!


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## Blacktide

Araya said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


That is a very complicated matter that varies from person to person (a new shocking idea!). However that being said; in general anyone we consider a friend is for the most part someone we like. Now if you like someone of the opposite gender, it would stand to reason that a sexual attraction would ensue to a greater or lesser extent, as we are romantically attracted to people we like.

As for myself I have friends of both genders and am perfectly comfortable having female friends that I have no intention ever entering a romantic relationship with.:shocked:

However, if I were to spend a large portion of my time with one specific female friend the odds are that I would want to be more than "just friends" with them. If I had that strong of an attraction to a girl and knew she would never be interested in me in that manner; I would probably cut my ties with that person. Because continuing to be around them would only hinder my ability to move on and find someone that does want me romantically.


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## emerysfriend

yes, men and women can just be friends. at least i know i can just be friends. my best friend for a few years was a swedish guy while he lived here in the states. he was like my brother.


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## Blacktide

emerysfriend said:


> yes, men and women can just be friends. at least i know i can just be friends. my best friend for a few years was a swedish guy while he lived here in the states. he was like my brother.


Poor guy got friend zoned :sad:, hehe sorry I couldn't help it :wink:.


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## Michael Nihil

Sure, if the man is gay or the woman is a lesbian. :laughing:


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## twentieslobotomy5

Wait, people think that men and women can't be friends without sexual or romantic intentions? No offense, but that is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.


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## error

What about all the women I've met who I think of as really cool people and I enjoy their company but we have no sexual connection or chemistry between us? That happens to me more often then not. Sometimes I wish I had a connection with that sort of friend, but if it's not there it's not there and it's best to leave it at friendship. Even if she is the perfect girl in every aspect... but you just don't feel that same tingle that you got with some other people.


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## Choice

> The Westermarck effect, or reverse sexual imprinting, is a hypothetical psychological effect through which people who live in close domestic proximity during the first few years of their lives become desensitized to later sexual attraction. This phenomenon, one explanation for the incest taboo, was first hypothesized by Finnish anthropologist Edvard Westermarck in his book The History of Human Marriage (1891). Observations interpreted as evidence for the Westermarck effect have since been made in many places and cultures, including in the Israeli kibbutz system, and the Chinese Shim-pua marriage customs, as well as in biological-related families. In the case of the Israeli kibbutzim (collective farms), children were reared somewhat communally in peer groups, based on age, not biological relation. A study of the marriage patterns of these children later in life revealed that out of the nearly 3,000 marriages that occurred across the kibbutz system, only fourteen were between children from the same peer group. Of those fourteen, none had been reared together during the first six years of life. This result suggests that the Westermarck effect operates during the period from birth to the age of six


 from Wikipedia. -- Have you guys got siblings? Or other childhood friends you grew up with? Why shouldn't extremely close friendships without attraction be possible?


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## Nazareth

Nope! That was e-z lol


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## anapuna

to answer the question put forth by the thread title. yes we can, i do it all the time. now sing along to the old school group WAR!...

"why can't we be friends
why can't we be friends
why can't we be friends
why can't we be friends"


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## IAmOrangeToday

I'm a heterosexual 17 year old male INFP who loves his female friends dearly. 

I'm not sure if everyone can handle 'just friends' but I most certainly can  And great friends they are too. No girl has ever made me feel afraid to be myself.


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## Yardiff Bey

Scientific American reference:

Men and Women Can&apos;t Be "Just Friends": Scientific American

TL;DR:



> Taken together, these studies suggest that men and women have vastly different views of what it means to be “just friends”—and that these differing views have the potential to lead to trouble. Although women seem to be genuine in their belief that opposite-sex friendships are platonic, men seem unable to turn off their desire for something more. And even though both genders agree overall that attraction between platonic friends is more negative than positive, males are less likely than females to hold this view.


Short answer: it's harder from the male perspective. *shrug*


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## BradyNotTachy

Yardiff Bey said:


> Scientific American reference:
> 
> Men and Women Can&apos;t Be "Just Friends": Scientific American
> 
> TL;DR:
> 
> 
> 
> Short answer: it's harder from the male perspective. *shrug*


Yes that is similar to what I was going to suggest, that some males could either going into it wanting to be more than friends or if they go in only wanting to be friends but they find a lot in common with the female and enjoy their time together so much that they wake up one day and think "so why am I not dating her...?"

I agree that while it does occur the likelihood of a close friendship between a male and female is a rare affair, especially if they are single. But like the poster above you, it does seem to happen and that is a great ability in my opinion. I've had several female friends over the years and while I may be sterotyping a little, there does seem to be a "woman's" perspective in a general sense which is great to learn from.


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## revtheory

So I met this girl at a party I threw back in March. We hooked up two nights later when we were both really drunk, she threw up later and decided not to spend the night. I asked her to a movie a few days later, she accepted only to cancel the day of saying she was still working things out with her (ex)bf. I tried to hang out with her a few more times to gauge where they were over the next few months, but nothing really. She did come and smoke with me on 420 much to the dismay of her bf who was embarrassed to date a pothead (I smoke around 3-4x a week). But anyway on to the summer, she moved from the dorms to a house and invited me to a get-together over there, I didn't make it but it was a good sign I thought. She started hitting me up for weed about once a week every other week. One night she met me at a party for a sack and guess who she was with? Her boyfriend. The dude smokes more than I do now, wtf? So thursday she calls me wanting some pills because she wants to forget about all the shit going on in her life. She asked me for some in the past for similar reasons, but I told her I couldn;t get any but suggested some weed  It's not that I couldn't get them but giving her those could get really ugly and even though I want to make her happy I'd rather her be safe. Anyway she had got in trouble with her sports team for smoking and wanted pills for there discreetness. After some convincing I was on my way to her place to smoke her up. First thing she led me to her bed where she was writing some inspirational quotes on note cards for her teammates. We sat there and talked as I pulled out the weed and loaded a bowl, but sadly she said we were smoking outside in the cold! We smoked a few bowls and went back inside to chill with her roommate and her fling. They both didn't smoke but after some bs conversation, my girl suggested a dance contest. I was really skeptical but it was actually pretty fun a lot of touching from her even a little grinding. Between songs she proclaimed “Guys this is the most fun I've had in a long time.” After we spent about 20 minutes sitting on the floor chatting I had my weight on my arms and basically had my arm behind her and when I made her laugh she put her head on my shoulder. She said she was tired so I gave her a hug and she led me to the door where we hugged again. I texted her Friday and asked if she wanted to hang again. She said she was about to go to sleep and had to get early (I got off work really late), I suggested we hang tommorow and she agreed. So the next day I text her about 7 and am soon on my way over to her place again. We make puppy chow and have conversations mainly about her ex who she spoke of a lot the other night, but not as much as this night, she asked if I was talking to anyone I said I wasn't but she got details about my ex out of me (I took it too fast, and I told her the truth). She probably said she hates sleeping alone now that her and her bf are complicated 5x during the two nights we hung out. So after making the chow we drove around and smoked a bowl, less than the other night but when I suggested we do another she said she was too high. While we were driving around she must have said this was a perfect moment and she didn't want it end 3x. We made eye contact and there was a moment when I almost thought we were going to kiss. We arrived back at her place and ate some of the chow just sitting in chairs next to each other, She told me the reason her and her bf aren't officially together, that she claimed she hadn't told anyone. She claims her bfs roommate took advantage of her one night when they were drunk, but she hasn't had the courage to tell her bf. He definitely knows they slept together. The conversation slowed about ten minutes later and devolved to this awkward eye contact from both of us with minimal talking and we were both leaning forward, if she would've been leaning in a foot closer I would've tried to kiss her. But I didn't get my chance she yawned, said she was tired and walked to the door, hugged me and said thanks for coming and I said “Sure you wanna sleep alone?” She said yes, I awkwardly said sorry and bye and walked on out. Now I really like this girl and feel like a piece of shit for how I acted on my way out last night. I texted her this morning good luck in her game today and she said “Haha thanks” less than a minute later. She said that everyone including her parents says her bf is bad for her, but she said she doesn't feel that way and that’s all that matters. We talked a lot about sex and she seemed really interested in my performance and availability and said she hates sleeping alone. Why would she say all this and just want to be friends? Or at least how long am I going to be an option, not a true priority?


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## revtheory

So I met this girl at a party I threw back in March. We hooked up two nights later when we were both really drunk, she threw up later and decided not to spend the night. I asked her to a movie a few days later, she accepted only to cancel the day of saying she was still working things out with her (ex)bf. I tried to hang out with her a few more times to gauge where they were over the next few months, but nothing really. She did come and smoke with me on 420 much to the dismay of her bf who was embarrassed to date a pothead (I smoke around 3-4x a week). But anyway on to the summer, she moved from the dorms to a house and invited me to a get-together over there, I didn't make it but it was a good sign I thought. She started hitting me up for weed about once a week every other week. One night she met me at a party for a sack and guess who she was with? Her boyfriend. The dude smokes more than I do now, wtf? So thursday she calls me wanting some pills because she wants to forget about all the shit going on in her life. She asked me for some in the past for similar reasons, but I told her I couldn;t get any but suggested some weed  It's not that I couldn't get them but giving her those could get really ugly and even though I want to make her happy I'd rather her be safe. Anyway she had got in trouble with her sports team for smoking and wanted pills for there discreetness. After some convincing I was on my way to her place to smoke her up. First thing she led me to her bed where she was writing some inspirational quotes on note cards for her teammates. We sat there and talked as I pulled out the weed and loaded a bowl, but sadly she said we were smoking outside in the cold! We smoked a few bowls and went back inside to chill with her roommate and her fling. They both didn't smoke but after some bs conversation, my girl suggested a dance contest. I was really skeptical but it was actually pretty fun a lot of touching from her even a little grinding. Between songs she proclaimed “Guys this is the most fun I've had in a long time.” After we spent about 20 minutes sitting on the floor chatting I had my weight on my arms and basically had my arm behind her and when I made her laugh she put her head on my shoulder. She said she was tired so I gave her a hug and she led me to the door where we hugged again. I texted her Friday and asked if she wanted to hang again. She said she was about to go to sleep and had to get early (I got off work really late), I suggested we hang tommorow and she agreed. So the next day I text her about 7 and am soon on my way over to her place again. We make puppy chow and have conversations mainly about her ex who she spoke of a lot the other night, but not as much as this night, she asked if I was talking to anyone I said I wasn't but she got details about my ex out of me (I took it too fast, and I told her the truth). She probably said she hates sleeping alone now that her and her bf are complicated 5x during the two nights we hung out. So after making the chow we drove around and smoked a bowl, less than the other night but when I suggested we do another she said she was too high. While we were driving around she must have said this was a perfect moment and she didn't want it end 3x. We made eye contact and there was a moment when I almost thought we were going to kiss. We arrived back at her place and ate some of the chow just sitting in chairs next to each other, She told me the reason her and her bf aren't officially together, that she claimed she hadn't told anyone. She claims her bfs roommate took advantage of her one night when they were drunk, but she hasn't had the courage to tell her bf. He definitely knows they slept together. The conversation slowed about ten minutes later and devolved to this awkward eye contact from both of us with minimal talking and we were both leaning forward, if she would've been leaning in a foot closer I would've tried to kiss her. But I didn't get my chance she yawned, said she was tired and walked to the door, hugged me and said thanks for coming and I said “Sure you wanna sleep alone?” She said yes, I awkwardly said sorry and bye and walked on out. Now I really like this girl and feel like a piece of shit for how I acted on my way out last night. I texted her this morning good luck in her game today and she said “Haha thanks” less than a minute later. She said that everyone including her parents says her bf is bad for her, but she said she doesn't feel that way and that’s all that matters. We talked a lot about sex and she seemed really interested in my performance and availability and said she hates sleeping alone. Why would she say all this and just want to be friends? Or at least how long am I going to be an option, not a true priority?


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## LadyoftheHouse

I certainly think it's possible but usually those relationships quit taking on a "friendship" role and become more of a "brother/sister" type of relationship. We only call people our "friends" because there never seems to be a socially acceptable word for someone who's _not _related to have such a close bond with us (or so I'm guessing). Thus the term "friendship" seems to work.

For instance, let's say you and your best friend goes to a party and you decide to introduce them to your boss. You can't very well say_ "This is my brother/sister"_ because then your boss will think that this is your *actual* relative. Same goes for terms such as "mother/father/aunt/uncle/etc." You simply can't introduce this person as one of these titles because it would imply that you are somehow related. Now this person could act emotionally, physically, and mentally as a relative but biologically and marriage-wise you are not related. So I suppose society didn't want any confusion and decided to come up with the term "Friend." 

I always introduce one of my guy friends as "my brother from another mother" because he acts like a brother figure but we're just not related. However, we have no romantic or lustful feeling of any kind for one another. Obviously our relationship has gone beyond being mere associates however we are not (nor will we ever be) _"together." _Therefore we define ourselves as friends. I like to think that we're just family that got separated at birth that's all. :wink:


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## LadyoftheHouse

Nevermind.


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## ninacheburashka

Yes. Just like they can be enemies, lovers, acquaintances or strangers.


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## HonestAndTrue

If they are honest with themselves, no. Take it to it's logical extreme. You and your "friend" on a deserted island and no other human contact. Can you two be JUST friends?

When Harry Met Sally 



11:20-11:30 WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989) FULL MOVIE - YouTube
20:20-21:20 WHEN HARRY MET SALLY (1989) FULL MOVIE - YouTube


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## Pseudowho

Admittedly I think it's MUCH easier to 'just be friends' if both of you are in a stable relationship with other people. For instance, I live with my housemates (two guys) and my boyfriend, and though these two guys don't have girlfriends, I think feeling secure and happy in my own relationship means that I don't deliberately search for 'that special something else' in my relationships with these two guys.

And admittedly, none of us have any attraction for each other, ahah roud: From my experience though, any male friends I have had, have become a bit awkward because we found it hard to go round to each other's places just for fun, or hugging for too long, or...stupid shit like that. This was when neither of us were in a relationship with others. But that's my personal experience! I know loads of guy/girl friendships that are great, and there's no suggestion of anything romantic.


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## Kormoran

No. A man and a woman is either sex partners, or blood enemies.

No, it's quite possible; I've had plenty of female friends throughout my life that I haven't been romantically interested in.


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## Doll

I've never been able to be friends with a straight guy... I'm not sure why this is at all. It's not that I haven't tried. Usually, when I've had straight male friends (like, twice), it always came down to them wanting more than friendship and then it became awkward. After that maybe I just subconsciously avoided it. I don't like investing into another person and forming a strong bond only to have them disappear on me once they realize I don't want anything more than friendship, it makes me feel abandoned and angry.


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## Mr. Meepers

Well, I already gave an answer before (here), but I think I would like to add to it.

Can men and women just be friends?
The most literal meaning asks if it is possible ... Can a man and a women be friends? With 7 billion people in the world, all with varying experiences and personalities, I'm pretty sure some can. Can every man be friends with every woman? No, there are too many people to get to know  ... Can every person just be friends with every person they know of the opposite sex? Probably not (again too many people, too much variation). Perhaps, those questions are not what we mean.

So what do we mean by this question ... We mean, I think, is if a heterosexual man and heterosexual woman are "friends", is there a reasonable probability that they can stay friends?
Or do we mean, can they be "friends" without at least one of them having a sexual/romantic agenda?
Or do we mean, that if they get close, will one of them feel attracted to the other?
Does this question mean different things to different people and sometimes we are talking through each other? ... Maybe we may even switch meanings of the question as we are talking/thinking while using a conclusion for the other meaning?


I want to tell a story (well, maybe not tell a story, but give an example of something in my life) and attempt to give an adequate reason behind what happened. .... I once had this female friend years ago, who opened me up and accepted me for me. We were both young and stupid at the time. Anyway, we became very close to each other and we both became very attracted to each other, but we could not go out with each other (the reason is not important). Anyway, I ended up getting burned really badly by that friendship and eventually went into depression. ... I had felt a great deal of limerence for her. I believe this can from me believing, at the time, that I needed her to be happy. ... Although "no man is an island", I eventually came to an epiphany that I can't expect to get happiness from others, I have to get happiness from myself. I believed (and still do) that you have to choose to be happy, and, at times, fight your own negativity to be happy (sometimes, you have to work for the things that a very valuable, the effort just makes it more special ^__^) .... Since then, I have become attracted, sexually and/or romantically, to a lot of my female friends ... but I no longer had a strong limerence towards them (if I was lonely, I may of had a mild amount of limerence, but just spending more time with friends was enough to have the loneliness fairies fly away). I was attracted to them, and I loved them (I loved them as a friend would love another friend), but it did not really matter to me as much if we were in a relationship (granted there were some friends that I had both romantic and sexual interests in that I would rather not date for compatibility reasons). I was happy with *just* being their friend (even very close friend with some) ... I did not feel the *need* to have something more (besides there are plenty of people in the world that are compatible with me, that I would find to have a great amount of inner beauty .... and, the hard part, I can still take the time to learn to trust them wholeheartedly ... I would need to put in the time and effort ... and at first they we won't have any shared memories, but the present and the future keep giving me opportunities to make new memories). So I think you can be attracted to someone that you are "just friends with" and remain just friends (without someone getting hurt and without a romantic/sexual relationship forming).


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## HonestAndTrue

Mr. Meepers said:


> I was happy with *just* being their friend (even very close friend with some) ... I did not feel the *need* to have something more


Let's test this. If they came out and said they want to be more than just friends or they feel the need to have something more, would you stick to your statement of being happy with just being friends and not feeling the need to have something more?

You've been good, great, best friends for five years. You talk regularly, spend time together regularly, and have an interconnected life. Your friends, their friends, the same people. You're comfortable and content. Are you saying without exception that if your best friend wants to share with you some of the last remaining things they haven't shared with you, you will say no and live the rest of your life without regret were the friendship to end with you saying the word no?


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## Mr. Meepers

HonestAndTrue said:


> Let's test this. If they came out and said they want to be more than just friends or they feel the need to have something more, would you stick to your statement of being happy with just being friends and not feeling the need to have something more?
> 
> You've been good, great, best friends for five years. You talk regularly, spend time together regularly, and have an interconnected life. Your friends, their friends, the same people. You're comfortable and content. Are you saying without exception that if your best friend wants to share with you some of the last remaining things they haven't shared with you, you will say no and live the rest of your life without regret were the friendship to end with you saying the word no?


I'm not sure that thought experiments are good "tests" lol ... They are good for seeing an expected outcome, explaining/clarifying an idea, and seeing if you accept the implications of your idea ... Otherwise, thought experiments don't prove anything. .... And you may not like or agree with my answer lol.

"_If they came out and said they want to be more than just friends or they feel the need to have something more, would you stick to your statement of being happy with just being friends and not feeling the need to have something more?_"

Well, there is a difference between need and want ... and I assume by need you mean a need for happiness? ... That being said, I would not feel I* need* something more .... Of course you can always ask if I would *want* something more. That would depends on the situation. First off, I would tell my friend that they don't need me in order to be happy and to function, that they are strong enough to make themselves happy and that they should want to be with someone, but not need them. If they think they are in an unhealthy relationship, then they should feel as though they have the ability to leave and be okay. The other think is what is going on in my life: Am I single? Am I interested in someone else? How do I feel about my friend? Are we both available and can we both be in a relationship? Did she just go through a bad break-up (or vulnerable in some other way) or have things been going okay?

There would be cases where I would want to be in a romantic relationship with said friend noticeably more and I may even decide to go out with her, but I don't need her to make me happy, I am only with someone because I want to be with them because they make me happ*ier*. If said friend told me she "needs" to be in a romantic relationship with me and then changes her mind, I would be more concerned about why she changed her mind and if something was wrong than I would be about dating her (she would be my friend and I would care about her and her feelings).


"_You've been good, great, best friends for five years. You talk regularly, spend time together regularly, and have an interconnected life. Your friends, their friends, the same people. You're comfortable and content. Are you saying without exception that if your best friend wants to share with you some of the last remaining things they haven't shared with you, you will say no and live the rest of your life without regret were the friendship to end with you saying the word no?_"

??? I think there has been a miscommunication somewhere (I think we may have two different ideas of what "just friends" means). .... I said I could be attracted to my friend and be happy being their friend, but that does not say whether or not I would say "yes or no" to dating them.
I have have a really good friend who I used to be more interested in, but I eventually realized that if we dated we would drive each other crazy. I me, she is now like a sister to me and even when I was more interested in her, we could talk about men and women the other one has met and how interested we are in these people. We were really good friends. ... That being said, if a good friend that I was romantically compatible with asked me out and I liked her, I might say "yes" depending on the circumstances, but if she liked me and we could not date and I was single with no other women I was interested in at the moment and I was ready to be in relationship, I would be able to continue just being her friend and be happy to hang out with her. 

Of course, let's say blah blah blah and I say "no" and then later I think I would like to date her ... Would I regret it? And would I regret if for the rest of my life? I might "regret" it at first and talk to her, but if we remain friends, I would get over it quickly .... If I did something and lost her friendship, I would actually regret that and regret it for some time, but time heals all wounds (if you let it) and if I am going to have lifelong regrets, I'm sure there are other things that I can regret more  .... I'm not going to obese over something I can't have ... there are times where I might miss something when I am lonely and we spend a lot of time and effort creating those memories, but I won't regret life and living life ... and I won't regret loving my friends and doing what I think is best. I may make mistakes, but I won't regret all of them. And I do not plan on having anyone hold onto the responsibility of making me happy ... That is my job, I just want them to make me happier ^__^


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## StElmosDream

I just don't like 'friend' connotations in general with so many confusing mutual love and respect for a need to be partnered or be willing to try FWB. Honestly it is confusing, no idea when liking friendly hugs and being deeply caring towards the opposite gender means 'I want to be with you physically' rather than 'I like/love you as the person and enjoy your company... experienced this a few times even after saying 'I'm not physically attracted to you and most likely never be' as if there is something more pure about 2 women being friends than a guy and girl?


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## jzgroth

I believe it is possible for a man and woman to be just friends without either party wanting more, but under rare circumstances. If the relationship gets too close one of the two will begin developing feelings, or just become fuck buddies haha


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## milti

I think it's totally possible.

Having an undercurrent of chemistry or feeling is not always the case. And even if it's present, there's always a choice with what to do with it.

I, for one (in my limited experience) strive my best to remain friends without the feelings creeping in at all. I have some buddies that are male that I truly can't think about in that way.


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## whist

Yes, I have plenty of male friends. Most of my friends don't find me sexually attractive and vice versa. I think it's 'cause I'm the kind of girl who guys see as a little sister rather than potential girlfriend, which is fine by me honestly. I'm also the kind of person who never has the guts to talk to the guys I actually find attractive, so that's probably a part of it too. XD The only times I've had problems is when one party was attracted to the other from the get-go and tries to be "friends", which, for me, either results into terminating the friendship or giving the relationship a shot.


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## Issmene

My thoughts on this question: Yes.

Why not?


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## Wellsy

There's women who certainly are attractive and I can keep them as friends but they'll never be relationship kind of girls for I the same reason we'll never be close friends. Just don't click, can get along but not a boom of chemistry there, more i try and navigate myself socially in the situations with much more caution


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## platorepublic

Most of my friends are female. But I am gay, so...


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## Cassieopeia

For me:

Friends? Yes
Close friends? Without even a hint of extra feeling? No

Any time I get really close to a guy, after awhile, I feel something more. Actually, my best friend is a guy, and we can and will be just friends, because I don't even wanna like him like that, and he doesn't like me like that, but our friendship is the best I've ever had. It is what it is. I lost a best friend once because I fell in love with him, and I won't let it happen again. If anything, if we're good for each other romantically, we can remain friends now and try it when we're older for a more permanent outcome. If not, that's okay. I love my friend.


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## Ms. Scarlett

(sorry if this has been discussed already I'm lazy as hell right now and don't feel like reading through all 17 pages lo siento)


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## Zilchopincho

I think it's possible, but to a certain extent. Sooner or later one of them will probably develop feelings for the other. This can just be a phase or a breaking point for the friendship. If it's a phase then they will move on and stay friends, until one of them does get a boyfriend or girlfriend. After that, the situation changes, as you will not be spending so much time with members of the opposite sex as much as you will with your significant other. Somewhere, someone will have to give. Sure, you'll remain friends, but more like a family friend or something similar. I of course refer to heterosexual relationships, since that is what I am used to.


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## Idea

Of course males and females can be JUST friends. Especially if either one of them already has a boyfriend or girlfriend.


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## nekudah

it's certainly possible.& I know the social trend in our country is to sexualize everything.But the truth is that if a man & woman wish to have a true friendship, they both need to put up borders in a healthy way in order to avoid the interactions to become sexually charged.

As much as romantic love is a great gift in life,so is a real beautiful friendship.In a deep freindship,when sexuality is not a dynamic,then there is something selfless & pure because its a real no strings attached situation.You dont want sex from him/her.nor money.You just want to love each other & share your lives with true caring & compassion

I do think that true friendship between a man & a woman is rare & not so easy to achieve.Any male/female interaction has the potential to become a sexual one, & if your looking for real friendship without the romantic aspect,you have to have real true respect for the privacy of the sexuality of the other person where you respect it by keeping your distance in that arena.That distance itself bring a special soul closeness that is unique & in a way just as great of a gift as romantic love is

I know I only touched upon briefly what I wished to say & perhaps wasnt clear enough.But I hope some of you do understand what Im trying to say


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## Curious Scarlett

No


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## DarkyNWO

Yes.

/thread


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## Vanitas

Yes.


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## SmilesforMiles

No, not unles they're gay. This has happened to me too many times. There are always romantic feelings, reguardless of what anyone says. I was friends with a married man, I thought it was safe... it wasn't.


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## dreamermiki

has anyone watched the episode of how i met your mother where marshall and barney were talking about the mermaid theory ?
well, i would agree. you can, because even if you'll start to develop certain feelings for the other person, you can still controll yourself. for the sake of the friendship, and if you don't ... well good luck ! xD


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## countrygirl90

Yes ,I have more male friends than female ones from my childhood ,because girls of my age were not interested in befriending me at that time I don,t know why but they always teased me for been less fashionable or thought me as tomboy kind .But I have always clicked with boys in matter of friendship ,though most often failed when it comes to romantic side . guess I,m really a tomboy than even after trying all sense of dressing and beautifying myself as a girl .But I do have some very lovable and precious girlfriends who are more dear to me than boys who are my friend .


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## SharpestNiFe

Absolutely. When a girl can't get me, I put her into friendzone. If I see a girl AND I'm interested in her, I go for it. If I don't get her or if she friendzones me OR if I find out she sucks, I peace and never talk to her again.


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## William I am

The answer to this question comes down to the difference between "be" and "act like".
Can men and women act like just friends? Absolutely yes.
Can men and woman BE just friends? No, not for 99%+ of cases. They're usually just acting like friends because something is preventing them from being something more. 

Nailed it.


----------



## CrystallineSheep

I think it is possible because we are not sexually attracted to everyone we meet and there is nothing wrong with love in a friendship whether between the same sexes or not. I mean I LOVE, LOVE my closest friends. I care for them deeply.


----------



## fguewriter

LittleOrange said:


> Well, I don´t really think that´s ok...I mean, they feign friendship...they´re not really friends to me....if I reject them, they will not stay my friends, they will leave....


They are not good folks, then. *hug*


----------



## EmileeArsenic

Yes. So what if at one point or another one party takes romantic interest in the other? It's not impossible to bounce back from that, and obviously the two have common ground to bond over. It's also not an insult if one party doesn't see the other romantically. It just kind of is what it is. 

Hell, I've had crushes on friends before that haven't worked out, and I've had friends who've taken interest in me before, and in both situations we've bounced back from it and are still friends, and have both accepted that that's all we'll ever be. It's not a bad thing.


----------



## JaySH

SmilesforMiles said:


> Think what you want, but I'm almost 100% positive that in 99% (this is a statistical percentage. When listing statistical percentages, it gives the impression of some form of case study having been done. if this is merely your opinion, saying "the vast majority" would accomplish what you're trying to without giving the impression of statistical knowledge)of cases one person or the other has romantic feelings. In your personal situation, did you ever think maybe the ladies had romantic feelings for you? It's human nature to be sexually attracted to the other sex. Lol I did just think about something however, *perhaps not every person has the problem of every person of the opposite sex having intimate feelings for them.... if you catch my drift.this comment, bolded, was rude. Your "drift" was meant to imply not everyone is as attractive and, therefor, may not suffer from friends of the opposite sex having an attraction for them. And, this implication was directed at the user you had quoted. Hmm...not insulting? I'd beg to differ. Yet, you hypocritically question my insulting tone? *





SmilesforMiles said:


> Instead of being insulting perhaps you *should read more on human nature and biology *and the like. ​*W**hat makes you think I haven't read up thoroughly on the subjects you listed? Given so many want men and women to not be divided by gender and to be treated as if they are exactly the same (instead of the realistic view of them being different but equal), I have felt compelled to research such topics. *
> 
> Do you think cavemen had platonic relationships?
> *Are you implying that men and women have not evolved beyond the cavemen era? I'm pretty sure we also ate bugs, raw meat, killed those who threatened our livelihood among many other barbaric things. Cavemen were not civilized...they were bound to their instincts and instincts only. *
> 
> And I didn't pull some statistic out of my ass, in my post I was pretty clear that these were my personal opinions, do I have any cited studies to back these up? No I don't, but in my knowledge of my own personal experiences and my knowledge of human nature and biology I believe that statistic is accurate.
> 
> *You used the false statistic to not only validate your own claim but to invalidate the claims of others whose experiences have differed from your own. I find that closed minded and ignorant, myself. Not to mention, again, insulting.*
> 
> Besides I was speaking figuratively, but again maybe if you weren't trying so hard to find fault. I never stated I had any studies to back these statements, this was supposed to be personal opinion...
> 
> *Yet, in your prior statement above, you feel the statistic is accurate...but you were speaking figuratively....not sure Which one I am supposed to believe...please enlighten me*.
> 
> in fact I believe this all started by someone else attacking MY personal opinion that men and women can't be friends. And about me not having any "good" male friends... I have had a male friend for going on 15 yrs now, ever since 6th grade. He is my best friend in the world, I have never dated him, kissed him, held his hand or anything, but he did have a crush on me for about 6 of those 15 yrs and it was very awkward. Yes I know this is an isolated incident, but again this was my PERSONAL opinion.
> 
> *And you're entitled to them but are basing them solely off your experience and denouncing everyone else's opinions which differ from your own because their experiences also differ (which you implied must be because they are unattractive).
> *
> Yes, my thoughts are based on my knowledge of human nature. Maybe if you weren't so quick to attack someone. Now, I'm pretty sure you're going to try and find some more faults with my post even though it's just my thoughts but I'm done with this topic I believe because I've stated what I wanted to and I still don't believe that with any stretch of the imagination can men and women just be friends.


*You're done. I wasn't. When you choose to ignore the experiences of all those around you, state false statistics based on your own limited scope and insult others whose opinions differ from your own...what do you expect for a response? 

I would be more than happy to run polls here regarding this, which would certainly open the scope from the limited one, of your own personal experience, which you have chosen to base all your opinions on. But, based on the responses in here, I'm pretty sure the percentage (based on many people's experience) would be far less than 99% of the population that couldn't have platonic friendships with the opposite sex. This statistical percentage would be formed using more than .000000000000000001% of the population's experiences...(as in ...more than just yours). 

Curious, why, if men and women can't be just friends, have the romantic interest for you, from your male friend, stopped? If they can not exist now, why could they not have never existed? Is it what you were eluding to earlier, with your "drift". Or, could it be you're basing your opinion off experiences with very young, immature males/females exploring sexuality? Because, in an immature state, I'd tend to agree with you...as curiosity would mimic romantic interest in the opposing sex even when key personality factors were not ideal for an ongoing relationship. But, that's a very small portion of the population.

Now, I'm done. Good day. See you around the forums.


edit: sorry, I lied. One more point. 

In all your studies and experience with human nature, you should know that when someone states an opinion which differs from the experiences of another, they are bound to express it. It would be no different than you stating "they don't make purple Camaros" because you, yourself, have never seen one and, in turn, someone who had seen one stating "they surely do as I've seen them". 

Based on your responses here, because you, yourself, had not personally witnessed a purple Camaro, one could not exist and the person challenging your opinion would be wrong, in your eyes. They also would have no right to challenge you, nor would the people who had also seen purple Camaros...because, clearly, they could not exist had you not seen them. 

Now, after that terrible, yet effective analogy, I am done. *


----------



## Miss Scarlet




----------



## fguewriter

Miss Scarlet said:


>


Grrl says people were dating 200 years ago? Ahhhh ...


----------



## fguewriter

EmileeArsenic said:


> Yes. So what if at one point or another one party takes romantic interest in the other? It's not impossible to bounce back from that...


This. I truly do not understand why it's taken as some sort of deadly trouble - or affront - or insult. As you say, is it not a compliment? I guess it's because people are so guarded and they sort of venture out, and egos are put on the line. Why not have it be a ... friendlier thing? Here's to a world where there isn't this crazy level of negative complexity.


----------



## RobynAlice

I think of it this way. If every man/boy had a relationship with every woman/girl they fancied out of their friends, no one would be friends, ever. Attraction doesn't change a relationship a lot of the time. Most friends stay friends and move on quite nicely. The whole 'not trusting a woman with lots of male friends' is very sad to me. If anyone thinks that about people they know, then they don't think very highly of them at all. 
Of course Men and Women can be just friends, it's childish to believe that if they are friends they would obviously have sex with each other.


----------



## JaySH

fguewriter said:


> This. I truly do not understand why it's taken as some sort of deadly trouble - or affront - or insult. As you say, is it not a compliment? I guess it's because people are so guarded and they sort of venture out, and egos are put on the line. Why not have it be a ... friendlier thing? Here's to a world where there isn't this crazy level of negative complexity.


I agree that the negative complexity should not be necessary, when dealing with those open minded. I can only assume my posts helped fuel this comment. My issue wasn't opposing views. It was the user not accepting the views of others as having any validity and making comments as if what the user said was fact and all others who disagreed were clearly wrong because of it. Also, hypocrisy and insults do not bode well with me. The user implied the other's opinion was most likely due to their lack of experience because they were unattractive, further attempting to invalidate the other user's opinion and insulting them. I'm an attractive male, (as some women see me anyway), and have had experiences which differ from the user's own, whom I was responding to. 



> Grrl says people were dating 200 years ago? Ahhhh....


Is this to imply they weren't? Just curious, not meaning to be rude. But, people were dating 200 years ago. Even before that, in many cultures, (semi)arranged marriages often took place but, as of the 1800's, dating, (or courtship/courting,as it was referred to back then), did exist.

http://shc.ua.edu/files/2009/08/sh-website-timeline-completed1.pdf


----------



## SmilesforMiles

JaySH said:


> *You're done. I wasn't. When you choose to ignore the experiences of all those around you, state false statistics based on your own limited scope and insult others whose opinions differ from your own...what do you expect for a response?
> 
> I would be more than happy to run polls here regarding this, which would certainly open the scope from the limited one, of your own personal experience, which you have chosen to base all your opinions on. But, based on the responses in here, I'm pretty sure the percentage (based on many people's experience) would be far less than 99% of the population that couldn't have platonic friendships with the opposite sex. This statistical percentage would be formed using more than .000000000000000001% of the population's experiences...(as in ...more than just yours).
> 
> Curious, why, if men and women can't be just friends, have the romantic interest for you, from your male friend, stopped? If they can not exist now, why could they not have never existed? Is it what you were eluding to earlier, with your "drift". Or, could it be you're basing your opinion off experiences with very young, immature males/females exploring sexuality? Because, in an immature state, I'd tend to agree with you...as curiosity would mimic romantic interest in the opposing sex even when key personality factors were not ideal for an ongoing relationship. But, that's a very small portion of the population.
> 
> Now, I'm done. Good day. See you around the forums.
> 
> 
> edit: sorry, I lied. One more point.
> 
> In all your studies and experience with human nature, you should know that when someone states an opinion which differs from the experiences of another, they are bound to express it. It would be no different than you stating "they don't make purple Camaros" because you, yourself, have never seen one and, in turn, someone who had seen one stating "they surely do as I've seen them".
> 
> Based on your responses here, because you, yourself, had not personally witnessed a purple Camaro, one could not exist and the person challenging your opinion would be wrong, in your eyes. They also would have no right to challenge you, nor would the people who had also seen purple Camaros...because, clearly, they could not exist had you not seen them.
> 
> Now, after that terrible, yet effective analogy, I am done. *


Lol, guess I lied too. Your killin me ova here. 
Is the red supposed to be intimidating or something?! *Does Jazz hands*

Apparently you can't read... If you read my post to the other user which clearly you didn't. I do believe I asked if he ever thought that perhaps the ladies had romantic feelings for him? I *DID* say that I'm pretty sure, you should go back and READ it. I did however state that perhaps some people didn't have the problem of the opposite sex having romantic feelings for them. I didn't say the poster specifically... but I was insinuating about other people.
*
You are one of those people that really gets under my skin *

Here you go again wanting to just attack people. It's my damn opinion, and no I don't care what any one else says or thinks because it's not going to change my mind about it.

What are you the Hitler of this subject?! I'm allowed to think what ever I want and not really care what others opinions are. Not that I don't mind opinions about other things, but this specifically my mind won't be changed.

Men and women can't be friends!

If you don't like my thoughts on this subject then STOP READING THEM!!

Oh and BTW your analogy makes no sense, what does that have to do with anything? The person who originally posted this question wanted OPINIONS on the matter. I stated my opinion and that part of my opinion was that I didn't care what other people thought.

Is that okay with you? Or do I have to ask next time I post my opinion?

(lolz wow I said the word opinion like 10x, but perhaps that will get my point across)


----------



## Aubbs

@SmilesforMiles


 Hot Tamale here. I'm sorry that you have such problems with the masses of people flocking to you. I will also let my bi-sexual godmother know she can't have any friends because she likes both genders and it is just utterly impossible. 

Holy Crap, where did all this personal b.s come from?! 

Yes, it is your opinion but trying to back up personal opinion with made-up statistical percentages is illogical. It ruins your credibility. And I don't think anyone was attacking your personal experiences but trying to defend their own, which are different from yours but no less valid. Or with 7 billion people in the world, do you really think your personal experience applies to everyone? You didn't just say it was your experience, you went on to say that it was impossible for anyone else's to be different. That's what some people are objecting to. Their opinions and experiences are every bit as valid as yours. 

My own personal experience is that majority of my friends are guys. I am a girl that likes to watch sports, play Magic and video games, and even enjoy gory horror movies. Sure, I like shopping, but I hate girl-talk and all romantic things for that matter. I'm not deluded enough to think that every guy friend of mine finds me attractive (even though I am ) and/or wants to bang me, hence why we are friends. I am utterly sorry you have to miss out on the awesomeness of opposite gender friendships and even friends for that matter. 

P.S 
The world revolves around the sun, not your deluded fake smilesformiles crap.


----------



## Nick Carraway

if there is attraction then no way


----------



## JaySH

SmilesforMiles said:


> Think what you want, but I'm almost 100% positive that in 99.8% of cases one person or the other has romantic feelings. In your personal situation, did you ever think maybe the ladies had romantic feelings for you? It's human nature to be sexually attracted to the other sex. Lol I did just think about something however, perhaps not every person has the problem of every person of the opposite sex having intimate feelings for them.... if you catch my drift.





SmilesforMiles said:


> Lol, guess I lied too. Your killin me ova here.
> Is the red supposed to be intimidating or something?! *Does Jazz hands*
> 
> Apparently you can't read... If you read my post to the other user which clearly you didn't. I do believe I asked if he ever thought that perhaps the ladies had romantic feelings for him? I *DID* say that I'm pretty sure, you should go back and READ it. I did however state that perhaps some people didn't have the problem of the opposite sex having romantic feelings for them. I didn't say the poster specifically... but I was insinuating about other people.
> *
> You are one of those people that really gets under my skin *
> 
> Here you go again wanting to just attack people. It's my damn opinion, and no I don't care what any one else says or thinks because it's not going to change my mind about it.
> 
> What are you the Hitler of this subject?! I'm allowed to think what ever I want and not really care what others opinions are. Not that I don't mind opinions about other things, but this specifically my mind won't be changed.
> 
> Men and women can't be friends!
> 
> If you don't like my thoughts on this subject then STOP READING THEM!!
> 
> Oh and BTW your analogy makes no sense, what does that have to do with anything? The person who originally posted this question wanted OPINIONS on the matter. I stated my opinion and that part of my opinion was that I didn't care what other people thought.
> 
> Is that okay with you? Or do I have to ask next time I post my opinion?
> 
> (lolz wow I said the word opinion like 10x, but perhaps that will get my point across)


Whatever you do is fine with me. Like you, I have the right to post my opinion..both on what was originally asked in the thread and on what you or anyone posted. This has gone too far. You have now taken to personal attacks on me and not just what I've posted. The hypocrisy within your posts is unbelievable to me. Your best friend is a man...but men and women can't be friends. You have a right to your opinion...yet you bash everyone who has a differing opinion of their own. You have a right to not really care what other's opinions are yet spent energy trying to invalidate their opinions because they differed from your own experience...even though your best friend is a man (yes, I read that he was interested in you for 6 yrs..I explained that already with immaturity...and, you and he are just friends now). 

And your repeated and false accusations of my ignorance and lack of reading are seriously hitting a nerve. I read the post where you asked if he'd considered the women he was friends with might have been interested in him....which you almost immediately followed with your comment that not everyone has to deal with the opposite sex being attracted to them, if we catch your drift. I did, called you out on it and you backpedaled. You also have failed to consider everyone else's experiences here. 

Our opinions differ because I've experienced what you haven't. I've seen both what you have and what you have been neglected of. Which is what my analogy was representing...seemed to make perfect sense to me. Platonic friendships between attractive men and women are the Purple Camaro. 

So, yes, you have a right to your opinion. I just think it's sad that you've closed yourself off from the experience of all others within this forum...and anywhere else, for that matter. You, other users here and the OP, have the benefit of learning from many on here. It is a grand privilege that many didn't have, outside of their own culture, not so long ago. And you choose to ignore all which is spoken that differs from your own experience. 

I get under your skin. Well, if it makes you think, at all, than...good. I don't lay down when challenged...I won't just ignore and hope it goes away because, in my experience, that only feeds false empowerment. I speak...and, like you with your opinion, I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO!

My opinion: MEN AND WOMEN CAN BE JUST FRIENDS EVEN WHEN ATTRACTIVE. MEN/WOMEN CAN BE JUST FRIENDS WITH THEIR FRIEND'S WIVES/HUSBANDS, WITHOUT WANTING TO BANG THEM, EVEN WHEN ATTRACTIVE. BISEXUALS CAN BE JUST FRIENDS WITH EITHER SEX WITHOUT WANTING TO BANG THEM, EVEN WHEN ATTRACTIVE! 

And, for all those who disagree with it's possibility, in my opinion and from my own (and other's) experience...you're wrong. Because it does happen, has happened and will continue to happen. Just because it isn't possible for you, doesn't mean it isn't for others as has been suggested (and stated as fact)..what a narrow minded way of thinking that is!

And, no, the red is for contrast between your posts and my comments within. I don't intimidate with colors...it would be as juvenile as the implication itself (especially with the addition of *doesjazz hands*)!


----------



## Delilah

I've been good friends with a male for 12 years. I always thought it was possible to just be friends and used to get annoyed at people saying otherwise. I found it personally insulting and disrespectful, and, small-minded.

That said, we just got together. So. :shocked:


----------



## JaySH

Delilah said:


> I've been good friends with a male for 12 years. I always thought it was possible to just be friends and used to get annoyed at people saying otherwise. I found it personally insulting and disrespectful, and, small-minded.
> 
> That said, we just got together. So. :shocked:


12 yrs is enough to prove the possibility...you're different people than you were 12 yrs ago 

More importantly...CONGRATULATIONS!!!


----------



## William I am

EmileeArsenic said:


> Yes. So what if at one point or another one party takes romantic interest in the other? It's not impossible to bounce back from that, and obviously the two have common ground to bond over. It's also not an insult if one party doesn't see the other romantically. It just kind of is what it is.
> 
> Hell, I've had crushes on friends before that haven't worked out, and I've had friends who've taken interest in me before, and in both situations we've bounced back from it and are still friends, and have both accepted that that's all we'll ever be. It's not a bad thing.


But isn't the friendship changed? For me, a friendship is qualitatively different if a female and I are 100% platonic friends vs. if we have some unrequited interest in each other - past or present.



Delilah said:


> I've been good friends with a male for 12 years. I always thought it was possible to just be friends and used to get annoyed at people saying otherwise. I found it personally insulting and disrespectful, and, small-minded.
> 
> That said, we just got together. So. :shocked:


Hahah! Ok, but seriously - was this a long time coming, or did it develop suddenly?

I wonder if people intentionally shut down potential thoughts of sexual attraction with friends for the sake of the friendship.


----------



## Delilah

William I am said:


> B
> Hahah! Ok, but seriously - was this a long time coming, or did it develop suddenly?
> 
> I wonder if people intentionally shut down potential thoughts of sexual attraction with friends for the sake of the friendship.


I've been pondering this myself recently. People noticed 12 years ago that we had 'chemistry' or something of the likes. Both of our partners felt threatened by the friendship.

But I know that I am very loyal in relationships and since I had been in a relationship the whole time, even if I did have feelings (which I didn't) I would have suppressed them.

We are both at different points in our lives - I think that's why it happened suddenly. Prior to now, we would never have worked I don't think. We both have learned and grown in different ways that make it compatible now. 

The types we are (Infj/intj) require the long-term trust that we already had, so the leap wasn't a huge one.


----------



## EmileeArsenic

William I am said:


> But isn't the friendship changed? For me, a friendship is qualitatively different if a female and I are 100% platonic friends vs. if we have some unrequited interest in each other - past or present.
> 
> ----- <snip>
> 
> I wonder if people intentionally shut down potential thoughts of sexual attraction with friends for the sake of the friendship.


Eh, sometimes, but rarely for me. Most of the time, though, I never told the guy I was into him, so for me, no. It just went for a moment into dangerous territory and eventually I stamped it back until it wasn't an issue for me any more, and carried on like nothing ever happened. I've no idea how it was for the guy because I'm not in his brain crawling around and it's a bit awkward to bring up.

Yes. I have intentionally shelved those thoughts, because if I can't see it going anywhere, there's no point entertaining them, and I wouldn't want to jeopardize a great friendship.


----------



## Hal Jordan Prime

Probably won't be seeing any fifteen-year-old boys hook up with fifty-year-old women so my answer is YES


----------



## Aubbs

puer_aeternus said:


> Probably won't be seeing any fifteen-year-old boys hook up with fifty-year-old women so my answer is YES


*Shivers* 
A kid at my school had a relationship with a teacher who was like 48...
I just vomited a little.


----------



## Hal Jordan Prime

Aubbs said:


> *Shivers*
> A kid at my school had a relationship with a teacher who was like 48...
> I just vomited a little.


If she was hot I'd rent that kid a limo for prom :wink:


----------



## Aubbs

puer_aeternus said:


> If she was hot I'd rent that kid a limo for prom :wink:


No she was not. She was the ugly Nanny McPhee with no personality.


----------



## Hal Jordan Prime

Aubbs said:


> No she was not. She was the ugly Nanny McPhee with no personality.


Then it's a


----------



## William I am

puer_aeternus said:


> Probably won't be seeing any fifteen-year-old boys hook up with fifty-year-old women so my answer is YES


15 year old boy =/= man. Your argument is invalid, sir


----------



## SmilesforMiles

Aubbs said:


> @_SmilesforMiles_
> 
> 
> Hot Tamale here. I'm sorry that you have such problems with the masses of people flocking to you. I will also let my bi-sexual godmother know she can't have any friends because she likes both genders and it is just utterly impossible.
> 
> Holy Crap, where did all this personal b.s come from?!
> 
> Yes, it is your opinion but trying to back up personal opinion with made-up statistical percentages is illogical. It ruins your credibility. And I don't think anyone was attacking your personal experiences but trying to defend their own, which are different from yours but no less valid. Or with 7 billion people in the world, do you really think your personal experience applies to everyone? You didn't just say it was your experience, you went on to say that it was impossible for anyone else's to be different. That's what some people are objecting to. Their opinions and experiences are every bit as valid as yours.
> 
> My own personal experience is that majority of my friends are guys. I am a girl that likes to watch sports, play Magic and video games, and even enjoy gory horror movies. Sure, I like shopping, but I hate girl-talk and all romantic things for that matter. I'm not deluded enough to think that every guy friend of mine finds me attractive (even though I am ) and/or wants to bang me, hence why we are friends. I am utterly sorry you have to miss out on the awesomeness of opposite gender friendships and even friends for that matter.
> 
> P.S
> The world revolves around the sun, not your deluded fake smilesformiles crap.


What is wrong with you people?

Do you not understand speaking figuratively? Is it too hard for you? Is the concept foreign? Ever heard of a turn of phrase?

Christ let the f***ing statistic drop, *TO ME THAT STATISTIC IS ACCURATE!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE, IS THAT BIG ENOUGH FOR YOU PEOPLE TO READ? OR IS IT NOT JUST YOUR EYES BUT YOUR THINKING AND COGNITIVE ABILITIES?* 

I think male and females being friends ruins relationships... and I'm gonna say it one more time, I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ABOUT IT. I never tried to invalidate any one's thoughts. Lemme tell you I would be pissed off if my boy friend had female friends, and he would be too if I had male friends. The only male friend I have lives 900 miles away. I speak to guys in college but that's a little different than hanging out and doing things with them. Just like I don't invite men in to my house when my boyfriend is not home... it's not proper. And I never said that other people's opinions don't matter in general... they just don't matter to me. I'm really beginning to wonder about the intelligence level of some of the users on this topic.

btw I'm also the type of girl where all my friends have always been male, and it didn't work out well. Also question for you, What do you look like??? That perhaps has something to do with it.

Neanderthals... and yeah that's to you


----------



## SmilesforMiles

JaySH said:


> Whatever you do is fine with me. Like you, I have the right to post my opinion..both on what was originally asked in the thread and on what you or anyone posted. This has gone too far. You have now taken to personal attacks on me and not just what I've posted. The hypocrisy within your posts is unbelievable to me. Your best friend is a man...but men and women can't be friends. You have a right to your opinion...yet you bash everyone who has a differing opinion of their own. You have a right to not really care what other's opinions are yet spent energy trying to invalidate their opinions because they differed from your own experience...even though your best friend is a man (yes, I read that he was interested in you for 6 yrs..I explained that already with immaturity...and, you and he are just friends now).
> 
> And your repeated and false accusations of my ignorance and lack of reading are seriously hitting a nerve. I read the post where you asked if he'd considered the women he was friends with might have been interested in him....which you almost immediately followed with your comment that not everyone has to deal with the opposite sex being attracted to them, if we catch your drift. I did, called you out on it and you backpedaled. You also have failed to consider everyone else's experiences here.
> 
> Our opinions differ because I've experienced what you haven't. I've seen both what you have and what you have been neglected of. Which is what my analogy was representing...seemed to make perfect sense to me. Platonic friendships between attractive men and women are the Purple Camaro.
> 
> So, yes, you have a right to your opinion. I just think it's sad that you've closed yourself off from the experience of all others within this forum...and anywhere else, for that matter. You, other users here and the OP, have the benefit of learning from many on here. It is a grand privilege that many didn't have, outside of their own culture, not so long ago. And you choose to ignore all which is spoken that differs from your own experience.
> 
> I get under your skin. Well, if it makes you think, at all, than...good. I don't lay down when challenged...I won't just ignore and hope it goes away because, in my experience, that only feeds false empowerment. I speak...and, like you with your opinion, I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO!
> 
> My opinion: MEN AND WOMEN CAN BE JUST FRIENDS EVEN WHEN ATTRACTIVE. MEN/WOMEN CAN BE JUST FRIENDS WITH THEIR FRIEND'S WIVES/HUSBANDS, WITHOUT WANTING TO BANG THEM, EVEN WHEN ATTRACTIVE. BISEXUALS CAN BE JUST FRIENDS WITH EITHER SEX WITHOUT WANTING TO BANG THEM, EVEN WHEN ATTRACTIVE!
> 
> And, for all those who disagree with it's possibility, in my opinion and from my own (and other's) experience...you're wrong. Because it does happen, has happened and will continue to happen. Just because it isn't possible for you, doesn't mean it isn't for others as has been suggested (and stated as fact)..what a narrow minded way of thinking that is!
> 
> And, no, the red is for contrast between your posts and my comments within. I don't intimidate with colors...it would be as juvenile as the implication itself (especially with the addition of *doesjazz hands*)!


lolz my one and only male friend lives 900 miles away... he has never gotten over the crush

and I didn't attack you, I attacked your malicious crap

I did question the attractiveness of some people, but not the original poster. 

This topic has gotten really stupid


----------



## William I am

@SmilesforMiles: This thread is about if it's possible in general. Not for you personally. To you it violates your values, which are obviously important for you and seem rigid. So for you the answer is "no." It's not the same for everyone.

You should chill out before you keep calling people stupid for not sharing your values. You can't make them/us change our values, in part because a lot of us (specific P types I mean) have flexible values that change depending on the situation.


----------



## SmilesforMiles

William I am said:


> @_SmilesforMiles_: This thread is about if it's possible in general. Not for you personally. To you it violates your values, which are obviously important for you and seem rigid. So for you the answer is "no." It's not the same for everyone.
> 
> You should chill out before you keep calling people stupid for not sharing your values. You can't make them/us change our values, in part because a lot of us (specific P types I mean) have flexible values that change depending on the situation.


No, I'm calling them stupid because they keep attacking what I posted, with out actually reading it.

All i tried to do was post what I thought and was criticized for it, over and over. As I have stated numerous times, people are allowed to have their own opinions. I just think I should be granted the same courtesy. I did make a snarky comment about attractiveness, but I didn't start with any insults until someone stated I had a tiny mind for not believing what they believed.

I guess I'm the b word though, so I'm going to excuse my self from this topic.


----------



## JaySH

SmilesforMiles said:


> What is wrong with you people?
> 
> Do you not understand speaking figuratively? Is it too hard for you? Is the concept foreign? Ever heard of a turn of phrase?
> 
> Christ let the f***ing statistic drop, *TO ME THAT STATISTIC IS ACCURATE!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> THERE, IS THAT BIG ENOUGH FOR YOU PEOPLE TO READ? OR IS IT NOT JUST YOUR EYES BUT YOUR THINKING AND COGNITIVE ABILITIES?*
> 
> I think male and females being friends ruins relationships... and I'm gonna say it one more time, I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ABOUT IT. I never tried to invalidate any one's thoughts. Lemme tell you I would be pissed off if my boy friend had female friends, and he would be too if I had male friends. The only male friend I have lives 900 miles away. I speak to guys in college but that's a little different than hanging out and doing things with them. Just like I don't invite men in to my house when my boyfriend is not home... it's not proper. And I never said that other people's opinions don't matter in general... they just don't matter to me. I'm really beginning to wonder about the intelligence level of some of the users on this topic.
> 
> btw I'm also the type of girl where all my friends have always been male, and it didn't work out well. Also question for you, What do you look like??? That perhaps has something to do with it.
> 
> Neanderthals... and yeah that's to you




Actually, while I am biased, Aubbs is a pretty, young woman with a high level of intelligence and confidence. Before you go and question the level of intelligence of users in here, you might want to look at yourself. And...Neanderthals? This coming from the user who sited tendencies of Cavemen with the opposite sex as a way of defending their point...based on that...aren't we all Neanderthals?

I am leaving this alone. Anymore you have to say is irrelevant to me. I'd have ignored this if not for your insulting comments and tone. 

Good day!


----------



## Aubbs

Oh dear, 
Yes, insulting and making fun of others and then my intelligence and appearance definitely helps your agenda and little plight. I just said basically to be open to others opinions and experiences because every little one of us is different. 

I have not seen any Neanderthals, they actually died out thousands of years ago, did you know that? But if you magically come by any please let me know, that would be awesome. 

I like my guy friends, kind of gross at times, but they always have my back and I never have to worry about all the 'feels.' It is pretty relaxing and fun. My past boyfriend liked that I was able to hang out with his guy friends and do "boy" stuff and he was willing to see any horrible chick flick I wanted to see with my girlfriends. By the way, paint ball is A LOT of fun! Anyways, I didn't care if he hung out with any girl friends of his he had because it was a pretty trusting relationship and it is normal to have both gender friends. 

By they way, thanks for the boldness, I wasn't sure if I read it right the first time but then I got the part about' me, me, me, your wrong' all over again. Again, the false statistic that is only accurate to you is still very illogical and proves nothing, I am not even sure what the statistic was really trying to prove...

But really, I will not stand for personal attacks about my appearance or anyone else because that has nothing to do with anything 

I am just wondering, what is your MBTI?




SmilesforMiles said:


> What is wrong with you people?
> 
> Do you not understand speaking figuratively? Is it too hard for you? Is the concept foreign? Ever heard of a turn of phrase?
> 
> Christ let the f***ing statistic drop, *TO ME THAT STATISTIC IS ACCURATE!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> THERE, IS THAT BIG ENOUGH FOR YOU PEOPLE TO READ? OR IS IT NOT JUST YOUR EYES BUT YOUR THINKING AND COGNITIVE ABILITIES?*
> 
> I think male and females being friends ruins relationships... and I'm gonna say it one more time, I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ABOUT IT. I never tried to invalidate any one's thoughts. Lemme tell you I would be pissed off if my boy friend had female friends, and he would be too if I had male friends. The only male friend I have lives 900 miles away. I speak to guys in college but that's a little different than hanging out and doing things with them. Just like I don't invite men in to my house when my boyfriend is not home... it's not proper. And I never said that other people's opinions don't matter in general... they just don't matter to me. I'm really beginning to wonder about the intelligence level of some of the users on this topic.
> 
> btw I'm also the type of girl where all my friends have always been male, and it didn't work out well. Also question for you, What do you look like??? That perhaps has something to do with it.
> 
> Neanderthals... and yeah that's to you


----------



## Meirsho

yes.


----------



## JaySH

This is every post you've made. I read them all. I read the first 2 before responding the first time. I admit I was a bit ..snarky? but, in your very first post you said "no, not unless they're gay" and..."....regardless of what anyone says". That is an attempt to invalidate other's points/opinions/experiences. You shared your opinion and stated no one else's mattered, in a manner of speaking. 

The response by the other user was not rude...but, you responded rude in kind. That's when I responded first. Since then you have thrown personal attacks my way and towards others. You've stated or implied that:
I can't read, I must not have any knowledge of human nature, I get under your skin, I am stupid, a "drift" meant to imply people who disagree must be ugly, I/we are Neanderthals, etc. 

What personal attack on you did I take part in? I did "attack" your use of a percentage, as using a percentage, rather than saying "most" or "a majority" gives some the false impression of scientific/statistical information being used, especially when not followed or preceded by "in my opinion", when it was merely your opinion. And, I responded after your passive aggressive comment regarding unattractiveness being the reason for opposing views..it was rude of you, in my opinion.

I didn't post in here to have a war with you. I also didn't need or ask to have my intelligence questioned and mocked by you, as, regardless of what you think, I am quite intelligent. 

I personally think that maybe you should take a deep breath, read everything you've posted (all right here) and try to see it as I/we (some of us) have. I'm going to apologize to you for not handling my first response in a more diplomatic fashion and for my part in this whole thing getting carried away. That said, however, it did not warrant the attacks from you that I, or anyone else here, received. 




SmilesforMiles said:


> No, not unles they're gay. This has happened to me too many times. There are always romantic feelings, reguardless of what anyone says. I was friends with a married man, I thought it was safe... it wasn't.





SmilesforMiles said:


> Think what you want, but I'm almost 100% positive that in 99.8% of cases one person or the other has romantic feelings. In your personal situation, did you ever think maybe the ladies had romantic feelings for you? It's human nature to be sexually attracted to the other sex. Lol I did just think about something however, perhaps not every person has the problem of every person of the opposite sex having intimate feelings for them.... if you catch my drift.





SmilesforMiles said:


> Instead of being insulting perhaps you should read more on human nature and biology and the like. Do you think cavemen had platonic relationships? And I didn't pull some statistic out of my ass, in my post I was pretty clear that these were my personal opinions, do I have any cited studies to back these up? No I don't, but in my knowledge of my own personal experiences and my knowledge of human nature and biology I believe that statistic is accurate. Besides I was speaking figuratively, but again maybe if you weren't trying so hard to find fault. I never stated I had any studies to back these statements, this was supposed to be personal opinion... in fact I believe this all started by someone else attacking MY personal opinion that men and women can't be friends. And about me not having any "good" male friends... I have had a male friend for going on 15 yrs now, ever since 6th grade. He is my best friend in the world, I have never dated him, kissed him, held his hand or anything, but he did have a crush on me for about 6 of those 15 yrs and it was very awkward. Yes I know this is an isolated incident, but again this was my PERSONAL opinion. Yes, my thoughts are based on my knowledge of human nature. Maybe if you weren't so quick to attack someone. Now, I'm pretty sure you're going to try and find some more faults with my post even though it's just my thoughts but I'm done with this topic I believe because I've stated what I wanted to and I still don't believe that with any stretch of the imagination can men and women just be friends.





SmilesforMiles said:


> Lol, guess I lied too. Your killin me ova here.
> Is the red supposed to be intimidating or something?! *Does Jazz hands*
> 
> Apparently you can't read... If you read my post to the other user which clearly you didn't. I do believe I asked if he ever thought that perhaps the ladies had romantic feelings for him? I *DID* say that I'm pretty sure, you should go back and READ it. I did however state that perhaps some people didn't have the problem of the opposite sex having romantic feelings for them. I didn't say the poster specifically... but I was insinuating about other people.
> *
> You are one of those people that really gets under my skin *
> 
> Here you go again wanting to just attack people. It's my damn opinion, and no I don't care what any one else says or thinks because it's not going to change my mind about it.
> 
> What are you the Hitler of this subject?! I'm allowed to think what ever I want and not really care what others opinions are. Not that I don't mind opinions about other things, but this specifically my mind won't be changed.
> 
> Men and women can't be friends!
> 
> If you don't like my thoughts on this subject then STOP READING THEM!!
> 
> Oh and BTW your analogy makes no sense, what does that have to do with anything? The person who originally posted this question wanted OPINIONS on the matter. I stated my opinion and that part of my opinion was that I didn't care what other people thought.
> 
> Is that okay with you? Or do I have to ask next time I post my opinion?
> 
> (lolz wow I said the word opinion like 10x, but perhaps that will get my point across)





SmilesforMiles said:


> What is wrong with you people?
> 
> Do you not understand speaking figuratively? Is it too hard for you? Is the concept foreign? Ever heard of a turn of phrase?
> 
> Christ let the f***ing statistic drop, *TO ME THAT STATISTIC IS ACCURATE!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> THERE, IS THAT BIG ENOUGH FOR YOU PEOPLE TO READ? OR IS IT NOT JUST YOUR EYES BUT YOUR THINKING AND COGNITIVE ABILITIES?*
> 
> I think male and females being friends ruins relationships... and I'm gonna say it one more time, I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ABOUT IT. I never tried to invalidate any one's thoughts. Lemme tell you I would be pissed off if my boy friend had female friends, and he would be too if I had male friends. The only male friend I have lives 900 miles away. I speak to guys in college but that's a little different than hanging out and doing things with them. Just like I don't invite men in to my house when my boyfriend is not home... it's not proper. And I never said that other people's opinions don't matter in general... they just don't matter to me. I'm really beginning to wonder about the intelligence level of some of the users on this topic.
> 
> btw I'm also the type of girl where all my friends have always been male, and it didn't work out well. Also question for you, What do you look like??? That perhaps has something to do with it.
> 
> Neanderthals... and yeah that's to you






SmilesforMiles said:


> lolz my one and only male friend lives 900 miles away... he has never gotten over the crush
> 
> and I didn't attack you, I attacked your malicious crap
> 
> I did question the attractiveness of some people, but not the original poster.
> 
> This topic has gotten really stupid





SmilesforMiles said:


> No, I'm calling them stupid because they keep attacking what I posted, with out actually reading it.
> 
> All i tried to do was post what I thought and was criticized for it, over and over. As I have stated numerous times, people are allowed to have their own opinions. I just think I should be granted the same courtesy. I did make a snarky comment about attractiveness, but I didn't start with any insults until someone stated I had a tiny mind for not believing what they believed.
> 
> I guess I'm the b word though, so I'm going to excuse my self from this topic.


----------



## Wellsy

Well I don't think relationships are always stagnate, i'd prefer to be friends with someone then move into a relationship. But there's certainly women who I just put in a spot in my mind where i'd never pursue them, it's not because they're not attractive or anything but I just blocked them out kind of and they are just viewed as friends. So if their feelings changed towards me i'd be in a mindfuck of a situation.

I think they can be friends, the reason people discount it is the view that just because you'd fuck them or have a relationship with them that the friend part is void. Well I don't think everyone is actually a slave to their genitals and can treat people as non-sexual beings. I prefer it that way other wise i'd just be hyped up on wanting sex from all my female friends and that'd ruin the friendship as they're interesting people.


----------



## freshlysqueezedlemonade

Honestly, I think it's totally possible as long as those who are meant to be _just_ friends know that there is no possibility of more. It's important for both sides to know that, otherwise one may end up being more interested in a deeper relationship. I've found that it's way easier to be friends with people who are in happy, healthy relationships with others, and/or when you yourself are in a good relationship. The other option is to be so close you're like family. Nobody wants to date a brother/sister!


----------



## Bricolage

> Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.


Seems like a presumptuous and hasty conclusion but all right. Haha internet opinions.


----------



## djqpewpew

Does maturity play any role in deciding this topic?


----------



## Devrim

I have several female friends,
Who are like sisters to me,
And I love them for who they are,
And not their bodies.

Friendship transcends sexuality, religion, race and gender,
I don't think any of the above can stop one from forming.

As a Bisexual guy,
I can say that I have PURELY platonic relationships with both males and females,
And just because I like both genders,
Doesn't mean all guys and girls are a turn on,
And I'd bang them.

To think that guys cannot have meaningful relationships with women,
And women with men,
Is an outdated and stupid concept,
It's very old fashioned,
In the bad way.

People need to grow up


----------



## Aubbs

Wellsy said:


> Well I don't think relationships are always stagnate, i'd prefer to be friends with someone then move into a relationship. But there's certainly women who I just put in a spot in my mind where i'd never pursue them, it's not because they're not attractive or anything but I just blocked them out kind of and they are just viewed as friends. So if their feelings changed towards me i'd be in a mindfuck of a situation.
> 
> I think they can be friends, the reason people discount it is the view that just because you'd fuck them or have a relationship with them that the friend part is void. Well I don't think everyone is actually a slave to their genitals and can treat people as non-sexual beings. I prefer it that way other wise i'd just be hyped up on wanting sex from all my female friends and that'd ruin the friendship as they're interesting people.



One... I forgot you actually post things. 
Two, I agree. We're friends.


----------



## RobynAlice

Of course men and women can just be friends! To be honest, I find the idea of someone believing otherwise, well, quite vain. If anyone seriously believed otherwise, that would imply they think that their friends of the opposite sex are obviously attracted to them. 
Men and women can be friends. It seems impossible to some people, but just because a man and woman have a close relationship, doesn't mean that they automatically fancy each other. A slightly primary school assumption, if you ask me. 

I would also like to ask, why are we just focusing on men and women being friends? What about gay/bi people, surely if we all think men and women can't be friends, then gay/bi people can't be friends with anyone.


----------



## fguewriter

RobynAlice said:


> Of course men and women can just be friends! To be honest, I find the idea of someone believing otherwise, well, quite vain. If anyone seriously believed otherwise, that would imply they think that their friends of the opposite sex are obviously attracted to them. - Men and women can be friends. It seems impossible to some people, but just because a man and woman have a close relationship, doesn't mean that they automatically fancy each other. A slightly primary school assumption, if you ask me. - I would also like to ask, why are we just focusing on men and women being friends? What about gay/bi people, surely if we all think men and women can't be friends, then gay/bi people can't be friends with anyone.


It's not necessarily vanity, because sometimes the other party believes there's interest when there's none. Or, conversely, is insulted if there's not some sublimated interest. Having said that, yes, it can happen, but it's complicated like everything human. Interesting logical point about non-heteronormative relationships, though patterns are not completely symmetrical. Speaking of overall populations, gay guys are often fluid and, say, more accepting of non-monogamy, while lesbians somewhat less so. I'm not sure how bi'ness works in there as yet. : )


----------



## nevermore

RobynAlice said:


> Of course men and women can just be friends! To be honest, I find the idea of someone believing otherwise, well, quite vain. If anyone seriously believed otherwise, that would imply they think that their friends of the opposite sex are obviously attracted to them.
> Men and women can be friends. It seems impossible to some people, but just because a man and woman have a close relationship, doesn't mean that they automatically fancy each other. A slightly primary school assumption, if you ask me.
> 
> I would also like to ask, why are we just focusing on men and women being friends? What about gay/bi people, surely if we all think men and women can't be friends, then gay/bi people can't be friends with anyone.


Well, according to this theory, gays would be able to be friends with the opposite sex (since at least one party would always have no interest). But I have seriously heard someone argue (when I used this to question his logic about men and women not being able to be friends) that bi/pansexuals couldn't be friends with _anyone_, unless they were ugly. I could not believe what I was hearing. The weirdest thing was that he didn't seem to realize how ridiculous he sounded. I thanked him for his honesty about my "bi question", and he didn't even make the connection, assuming I was asking him a question about his sexuality, "correcting" me by telling me he was straight. *facepalm*

But then, that's an argument from morality and fairness and consistency, not fact. I still think women and men can be friends, mind you. (Again, most of my friends _are_ women...)


----------



## merlin89

I guess it is possible, although you might have "dreams" and "fantasies", where it goes behind the border of being friends. I am kind of good example where friendship works, but the story is quite complicated. xD I was like totally ignored by girls at high school, boom at university, in my study programme, there was majority of girls and after two years I am the only boy in the programme. So I had no other choice than getting used to it... As an INTP it was kind of tough but now I am not scared of girls anymore... Well and the best part is I started to like one girl and I am kind of really romantic person and I have been preparing pretty big move, but in the meantime she started dating another guy, it left me totally broken, cold (was kinda inmature by that time....) and it took me quite some time to get back on track, now we are best friends, she is still dating that guy and I am really happy that we are friends... Wouldnt say that I will ever ever have a girl as my best friend but...... never say never i guess.... Sometimes I regret not taking the move, but I guess it was already too late...


----------



## Amore

Men and women can be friends but there needs to be communications and boundaries. If the guy likes the girl over time and lets her know, then she needs to be honest and communicate to him that it may or may not work out (depending if she likes him too). Either way, both gender shouldn't be playing games. Quit playing games with heart D=

Btw, my best friend is a guy and we're cool. No feelings for each other and we keep it at that.


----------



## jennamax

you basically said it all in your post. I too think that anyone who thinks that you can be just friends with the opposite sex need to get real. Men and women are wired to have feelings for each other and be attracted to one another. How on earth do you shut that natural desire? The only time is when you don't fancy each other but even then, men and women aren't just meant to be good friends


----------



## Infj moms

Many people have said this, but I feel it depends on the person. My husband tells me most guys do feel some physical attraction to certain women even while the monogamous varieties would never cheat or take action on any simple impulses. But the physical instinct is still there even when he loves me and lacks a connection with them. So if that attraction were ever mutual (or sometimes even when it is just in one person), spending up-close time with a friend of the opposite sex could be disastrous and or just give people the wrong idea! If you're married or in a steady gig, it's seems much better to not muddy the waters! I do know many people who do manage opposite sex friendships extremely well, but their personalities are different from mine. For me, my introverted tendencies and desire to know my friends REALLY well makes that situation not work out with friends of the opposite sex because guys easily misunderstand your intentions and think your interest is something else. So I JUST DON'T DO friendships with the opposite sex except when it is a couples situation and my husband is equally friendly (or usually more) with the guy in question.


----------



## fguewriter

lonelyinfj said:


> Men and women can be friends but there needs to be communications and boundaries. If the guy likes the girl over time and lets her know, then she needs to be honest and communicate to him that it may or may not work out (depending if she likes him too). Either way, both gender shouldn't be playing games. Quit playing games with heart D=


So much agreed. The games - on all levels, in all directions - are what make people afraid to trust and love.

> Btw, my best friend is a guy and we're cool. No feelings for each other and we keep it at that.

What would happen if he developed feelings for you? Or you for him?


----------



## Amore

fguewriter said:


> So much agreed. The games - on all levels, in all directions - are what make people afraid to trust and love.
> 
> > Btw, my best friend is a guy and we're cool. No feelings for each other and we keep it at that.
> 
> What would happen if he developed feelings for you? Or you for him?


Good question. I will have to walk my talk, right? Let him know that I don't feel the same and it's best if we give each other space for now.


----------



## fguewriter

lonelyinfj said:


> Good question. I will have to walk my talk, right? Let him know that I don't feel the same and it's best if we give each other space for now.


How, here's the interesting question: how would he respond if you felt it? The same? My guess is he would be a little more positive? (I'm asking because I think male/female differences have a lot to do with it. (This reminds me of the polls showing guys think *more* of their gal pals want to sleep with them than is the case - and women think *fewer* of their guy pals want to sleep with them than is the case.)


----------



## Amore

fguewriter said:


> How, here's the interesting question: how would he respond if you felt it? The same? My guess is he would be a little more positive? (I'm asking because I think male/female differences have a lot to do with it. (This reminds me of the polls showing guys think *more* of their gal pals want to sleep with them than is the case - and women think *fewer* of their guy pals want to sleep with them than is the case.)


I think he will react a little more positive to rejection compare to me. Not sure why but I guess it has to do with his personality. I can get aggressive and uncomfortable easily when someone confesses their feelings to me. Perhaps I'm comfortable where we are. Also, we're not into FWB or anything. We keep it platonic and clean.


----------



## will-o'-wisp

I think it's fine to be friends with members of the opposite sex but I do think there can often (not always) be some tension. It doesn't mean you have to act on it or even acknowledge it but it does make it interesting. I see no harm in this.


----------



## fguewriter

willow the wisp said:


> I think it's fine to be friends with members of the opposite sex but I do think there can often (not always) be some tension. It doesn't mean you have to act on it or even acknowledge it but it does make it interesting. I see no harm in this.


Tension handled in an adult way adds a lot!


----------



## Awe101

For the short term I do believe it is possible. Long term...not so much.


----------



## mirrorghost

yeah. i've never had a problem being friends with men. i got subtle cues (not a 100% sure on this) that a few of them wouldn't say no if any of my friends offered to have sex with them (which would never happen) but it never caused any issue and they never acted on it or anything.


----------



## Vulpus

Of course and with great ease once the nature of the relationship has been defined.
However for those with certain upbringings and backgrounds male-female friendships are going to be a lot harder.


----------



## dabeshu

Some men and women are more compatible to being in this type of relationship with one another than are others.


----------



## KilljoyKoala

Uh, yes.
This is ridiculous. I have three friends. Two are male (of course one is my brother, so that doesn't count much.) 
Anyone who says that men and women can't be just friends is seriously immature and has some issues. 
And, if you're saying that sexuality gets in the way of friendship.. What about homosexuals? You think a bi/gay person can't be friends with a person of the same sex? Uh, no. And, what about friends who have sexual relationships together?

This is just silly and the answer is obvious.


----------



## fguewriter

KilljoyKoala said:


> Uh, yes.
> This is ridiculous. I have three friends. Two are male (of course one is my brother, so that doesn't count much.)
> Anyone who says that men and women can't be just friends is seriously immature and has some issues.
> And, if you're saying that sexuality gets in the way of friendship.. What about homosexuals? You think a bi/gay person can't be friends with a person of the same sex? Uh, no. And, what about friends who have sexual relationships together?
> 
> This is just silly and the answer is obvious.


Thanks for settling that.


----------



## android654

Unless you're the kind of man that needs to fuck every woman he comes across or the kind of woman who feels every guy is trying to get in their pants, then this shouldn't be an issue. It wasn't until I was about 18 that my best friend was another guy, before ten I spent most of my time with girls.


----------



## RoadLessTravelled

nordlund63 said:


> I have female friends, though this is mostly because lack of attraction or the taken status. I've always noticed that when one become available again the friendship becomes more stressed. An offhand joke that you wouldn't think about shooting off before suddenly becomes flirtatious without meaning too, you can't ask her out to a friendly lunch without both thinking its secretly a date, etc.
> 
> Anyone whose suddenly had an attractive, single friend knows what I'm getting at.


Totally. A male friend of mine, recently separated, asked me out to dinner. I still have no idea if he means it in a datey way or not :/
It would be easier if we reverted to old fashioned ways of courting, e.g. "Fair maiden, would thou give me the pleasure of your company on a romantic outing? The locks of your hair and your fair heaving bosom make my heart flutter so, say thou feelst it too!"

..but alas we are stuck with 'er so do you wanna hang out?' and lots of secret looking at each other trying to figure out what's going on :0


----------



## Raven2

Yes, certainly. As long as neither person is romantically or sexually attracted to the other, it'll be okay. Not all guys are the same; sex is only the whole point of life in biology class. But if they can't be friends without some sexual incentive, it's their loss.


----------



## Fern

I feel a few instances of dishonest friendships wrought with sexual tension, affairs, and mind games have tainted what could be truly beautiful and pure cross-gender friendships. What a sham. I have a dear male friend that I would die for in a heartbeat. He has a girlfriend, I date most people at least once, and neither of us feels any desire for the other. He's like my big brother, guys :7


----------



## Alumina

Ofcourse. Just control yourselves.


----------



## Watch Key Phone

jennamax said:


> you basically said it all in your post. I too think that anyone who thinks that you can be just friends with the opposite sex need to get real. Men and women are wired to have feelings for each other and be attracted to one another. How on earth do you shut that natural desire? The only time is when you don't fancy each other but even then, men and women aren't just meant to be good friends


I don't believe there are people who actually think this. How does your theory explain gay people? Asexual people? Heterosexuality may be the most common orientation but that doesn't mean it's the only one. And even if it was, I think almost every heterosexual person would say that they aren't attracted to every single person of the opposite gender.


----------



## telepariah

Just because you develop "feelings" for somebody does not mean you must act on them. If you are a mature, self-actualized adult, you can decide to control your behavior in such a way that it does not interfere with what you value more. But you have to decide. It is entirely possible to be heterosexual and have friends of the opposite sex just as it is entirely possible to be homosexual and have friends of the same sex. If you want to be friends with somebody, don't have sex with them. It isn't that difficult, and it results in the richest friendships you would never have had the chance to experience if you had let only your "feelings" of lust or limerence rule your life.

I am old, straight, and married. But I also have had tons of female friends throughout my life. I have gay friends too. I don't go around worrying and asking them if they have feelings for me. I assume that everyone is capable of having feelings but also capable of putting the friendship above them. If you want to be friends, be respectful of the other person's privacy and feelings. Don't do anything you don't want to do. And accept the other person completely. If you can trust each other not to intentionally hurt each other you have the foundation of a beautiful friendship regardless of what parts you have.

I have a lot of friends for an introvert. I don't always want to be with them, but I always value their friendship regardless of their physical characteristics, their sexual orientation, or their gender. It's normal to be attracted to people. It's normal to be friends with people you are attracted to. I understand that for some people it is also normal to be unable to form friendships with people they may be attracted to. But I do think that's a sad state of normalcy given how rich my life has been made by all of my friends.


----------



## Aquamarine

jennamax said:


> you basically said it all in your post. I too think that anyone who thinks that you can be just friends with the opposite sex need to get real. Men and women are wired to have feelings for each other and be attracted to one another. How on earth do you shut that natural desire? The only time is when you don't fancy each other but even then, men and women aren't just meant to be good friends


I've a lot of straight male friends and none of them have any romantic feelings for me, as well as vice versa. How do you explain that?


----------



## Luke

Absolutely. I have many female friends and I don't have romantic feelings towards them. Many of them are attractive, but due to our friendship, they feel like sisters to me. I think it's very important for people to be able to form healthy friendships with the opposite gender. I think many problems can occur if you can't relate to the opposite gender on a friendly level and can only see them as potential love interests.


----------



## Boomerang

Oh, most definitely. I have lots of girl friends that aren't girlfriends, if I may engage in some silly wordplay. There are just some girls I'm not really into, but still like to hang around with. Sure, the physical attraction is there, but it's nothing I'd act upon (or would even want to). 

I mean, for my own situation... while I find her attractive, the fact that she's so gleefully into studying microbiological terrorism is... it scares me. It sends deep feelings of abject fear down to the very core of my being. Nice girl, but weird hobbies!


----------



## dalex

Interesting.
The Ladder Theory


----------



## ilphithra

My best friend since childhood is a guy... maybe the fact he came out as gay when he was in his mid 20's and I'm lesbian since I remember existing has something to do with it... :laughing:


----------



## d e c a d e n t

I would hope so. Not that I have a lot of male friends. Or friends in general, but shh.


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## Maru the Gingerhead

It's entirely possible, but I cannot deny that the self-control part is difficult.


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## Archetype

Is it because sex that men and women have trouble being friends? In my country, sex is a big deal, and it's controlled strictly by society, so I have never been in that position


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## Naia68

Hmmm, yeah, this can be a sticky situation. I was good friends with a guy (a college friend and running-buddy) for eleven years. We were both married to other people. Then, while going through a particularly difficult time in my life, I asked him if he found me attractive. I wasn't trying to get anything started between us, but I needed some kind of boost to my self-esteem. He said he found me very attractive and then started telling me about his fetishes. This led us to a brief sexual relationship. I never would have imagined this happening between the two of us, so it's wise to stay alert.


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## Archetype

Control yourself people
Get yourself a boyfriend/girlfriend
If you don't have one, you have internet porn LOL


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## benoticed

Yes ofcause, ever heard of homosexual's?


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## rosegeranium

Yes, they can be. But there will always be the basic biological factors at hand. A lot of people will think that, because of this, we must give into them and thus render our capacity to have meaningful relationships moot. How can you have meaningful relationships with your own gender if you can't have meaningful relationships with the opposite gender?

Now, some might argue that just because sex is involved doesn't mean a friendship can't be meaningful. But if we would prefer to keep things strictly platonic, then let us first recognize that we are in control of our bodies. If a guy finds his female friend attractive, then good. There is nothing wrong with finding anyone attractive. If he or she gets sexually aroused, then that's ok too. We are human, we have instincts, we have been conditioned by society to be hyper sexual and to feel guilty about it at the same time.

The idea is to notice the attraction and be present in it, be conscious. Realize that you do not have to act on it because it is "natural". Nature is not infallible, mistakes are made in nature constantly. There is no sense in ignoring your sexual feelings to your friends, nor acting on it because you think you really have no choice, that natures calls and you must answer. It is probably best to put it out in the open and talk about it if it really bothers you. Once you have really confronted the attraction, admitted there is nothing wrong with it, realized that you always have a choice and that you are not somehow going again'st nature or harming yourself, it will be a lot easier to just stay as friends. 

Women have a lot more power here than men. Men have been conditioned by society to take it when they can get it, that they are slaves to their penises. It is up to women to really be conscious of their sexuality and really think about whether or not she wants a relationship with the male friend, sexual or otherwise. The women must take the lead and show that men and women can just be friends.

EDIT: I have mostly male friends, by the way. Some have become attracted to me and I became attracted them, but I decided that I did not want to go there and that was that, always will be. I know that it is possible to maintain platonic relationships with men for a long time because that is pretty my source of friendship. Women always end up hurting me and trying to sleep around with my boyfriends, so I don't want anything to do with them. Most are too insecure and crazy for me even when they _seem_ stable, and unfortunately many male friendships of mine have ended because the men got girlfriends. I am understanding of this, but the ironic part was that I don't think those girls had half the will power I have, but they became so afraid that I would give into my urges, lol. Well, I understand where they were coming from...I understand, and respectfully bowed out.

But yeah, it can totally work. But I'd say it is up to women to take the lead here more often than not. We have the powah!


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## _sunkissed_

not like man - man, woman - woman can be friends. it's okay if you wife go out having coffee with a girlfriend, but i don't see it as okay if she does that with another man, only them alone, that would be weird. so there's many factors. are you in a relationship, what do you do and talk about, how close friends, are you alone or with others when you are together, etc...


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## The Roving ENFP

DB Cooper said:


> If a man thinks with the higher of his two heads, it is entirely possible. This may have more to do with maturity level, however, then gender.


Yep certainly agree with this post. It does have a lot to do with maturity.
So in short, yes, it is possible.


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## Laguna

Deep in my heart I know that if there is or was romantic feelings, a friendship is not fully possible and is actually unhealthy. 
:-/


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro

Luke said:


> Absolutely. I have many female friends and I don't have romantic feelings towards them. Many of them are attractive, but due to our friendship, they feel like sisters to me. I think it's very important for people to be able to form healthy friendships with the opposite gender. I think many problems can occur if you can't relate to the opposite gender on a friendly level and can only see them as potential love interests.


This. Beyond me what point then, there even is in dating. What do you talk about? Might as well get hitched and start avoiding each other immediately outside of the secksy times.

l've definitely seen M/F couples who seemed to have nothing in common and communicate very differently. They ''liked'' each other, sure but it was kind of awful to watch.

lf l had kids, l'd encourage non gender specific socializing early on, maybe one way to avoid this.


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## Hoff

If you can't even be "just friends" then I don't see much hope for a stable, long term, romantic relationship.


----------



## Oleg

No, I don't believe men and women can be just friends - one of them always wants to be more then just friends, at least in secret. But of course you can't ban your wife(husband) from speaking and interacting with other men/women, as you can't ban yourself from doing it. So it's all about keeping a right distance.
This relationship staff is so confusing lol.


----------



## nevermore

Oleg said:


> No, I don't believe men and women can be just friends - one of them always wants to be more then just friends, at least in secret. But of course you can't ban your wife(husband) from speaking and interacting with other men/women, as you can't ban yourself from doing it. So it's all about keeping a right distance.
> This relationship staff is so confusing lol.


Do you not feel it's more likely to be the reverse? That friendship can sometimes be possible (even if there is a good chance of at least one person having "designs"), but that jealousy from significant others tends to get in the way?


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## mrkedi

i have friendzone dudes and friendzoned by dudes a lot times in my life, so my call is yes. a lot of my dudefriends have their game console as their waifu, and we are happy the way we are.


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## Mr.Blayz

i have a lesbian best friend and her girlfriend is currently sizing me up like a mad boyfriend, and she says im cute sometimes, but she made it clear that shes been lesbian since she was real little, we're so much alike that its impossible not to be friends, sometimes we even talk about pussy


----------



## Tahlain

Does this presumption imply that a bisexual person can have no friends?


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## Slider

I don't think so.

I agree that at least one person usually wants to be more than friends.

I am friends with my ex-girlfriend and she gets angry whenever I talk about other girls.


----------



## foi_unbound

'me and jenny were just like peas and carrots' forest gump
i have a friendship that i would like to take to the next level - again.
it could just be a myth, but i think guys and girls can coexist with each other without anything serious


----------



## Fern

Tahlain said:


> Does this presumption imply that a bisexual person can have no friends?


... or that an asexual can never have someone in their life that is more than "JUST friends"?


----------



## blargh

yes! 
if only they aren't as attractive ..


----------



## ounkeo

obviously men & women can be friends; even really good, long term friends. But that doesn't mean one or both aren't in some way attracted to each other. It could be more than attraction or it could just be that - mutual attraction that goes nowhere but drives their friendship. 

I have no problems being friends with someone who is attracted to me or vice versa. Hell, in several instances, we just decided to just get the sex out of the way & remained good friends thereafter; with maybe occassional relapses.

in the end, i don't think it all really matters. It's how both parties deal with and accept the situation that matters more in determining the length and quality of relationship.

I'm a guy so i can say with a straight face that if I'm friends with a girl and she's attractive in any way, I would have thought about jumping her - probably pretty often. I know girls who think the same way though they are FAR less likely to be truthful or open about it to anyone outside a few select people.


----------



## Surreal Snake

Yes they can.In my experience friendships last much longer.


----------



## Buta

Yes. I think men and women can be friends. Most of my friends are guys, 'nuff said.


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## Meirsho

women shouldn't be allowed to post her..lol


----------



## Dalton

I don't know about men & women in general, but I suspect that I could be just friends, but that requires us to keep in touch (otherwise we wouldn't be friends!), and have NO sexual tension. I am absolutely crap when it comes to keeping in contact with friends...


----------



## JaySH

Meirsho said:


> women shouldn't be allowed to post her..lol


And, why is that? Hmm....


----------



## you_is_eagleton

I have only a few very close female friends and a lot of casual guy friends. But as for the guys, somehow some of these friendships all seem to fall apart for many different reasons... I'm not saying it's not possible at all - this casual, platonic friendship all depends on case by case.


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## purposive

No, unless the women is unattractive. Men do not want to be just friends with attractive women. If men want friends, they will find friendship with other men. I laugh a little when you ask this question to some women, and the outstanding answer is "Of course! *I* have a lot of guy friends. *I* am not attracted to them." For women, it's always on their terms. They decide if they want to have sex, when they want to be take this onto the next level. For them it seems platonic, but wait until you ask their male friends what they really think.


----------



## Promethea

purposive said:


> No, unless the women is unattractive. Men do not want to be just friends with attractive women.* If men want friends, they will find friendship with other men.* I laugh a little when you ask this question to some women, and the outstanding answer is "Of course! *I* have a lot of guy friends. *I* am not attracted to them." For women, it's always on their terms. They decide if they want to have sex, when they want to be take this onto the next level. For them it seems platonic, but wait until you ask their male friends what they really think.


So basically, women are only useful to men for sexual reasons, and men who are seeking friendships won't waste their time on women when they can make male friends? So basically women aren't interesting as friends at all, only as sex objects. 

And you wonder why so many people think you're a misogynist. 

By the way, I know plenty of males who have platonic friendships with females based on similar interests and such. You're only speaking for yourself here, but you act like you can speak as the voice for all men. Fortunately you are not.

(6:03:53 PM) a guy: i prefer female friends
(6:04:10 PM) a guy: i get along easier with women than i do with guys for the most part

Oh, well holy shit.


----------



## purposive

Promethea said:


> So basically, women are only useful to men for sexual reasons, and men who are seeking friendships won't waste their time on women when they can make male friends? So basically women aren't interesting as friends at all, only as sex objects.
> 
> And you wonder why so many people think you're a misogynist.
> 
> By the way, I know plenty of males who have platonic friendships with females based on similar interests and such. You're only speaking for yourself here, but you act like you can speak as the voice for all men. Fortunately you are not.


I'm not speaking for myself. Please stop acting like you know how men think, because you do not. Women tend to do this and I can't understand why. No, not necessarily. When women say "I can have make friends because I think of them as friends," they are speaking on their terms and only their terms. How do you know that men aren't masking their friendship for wanting something more?

Men can be friends with women if he finds her ugly. Why? There is no sexual motivation on his part. I don't know if you are pretending to not acknowledge mens instinctive needs. Once again, you are not a man. You have no concept of how men think. I'm not saying this to be offensive, this is a fact. Do you SERIOUSLY think that if a man thought you were hot that he wouldn't have the idea that befriending you would open doors towards something romantic and/or sexual? Please do not choose to be naive. If you're hot, a man might pretend and even believe in friendship, but deep down inside he has hopes that there will come an opportunity where something more will happen. That is why if a man thinks a woman is ugly, of course he can be JUST friends, his instincts aren't going to be activated. Of course a homosexual man can be friends with a woman, he isn't attracted to her like that.

I also never said men found women only interesting as sex objects LOL! I am saying once again...
* Men do not want to be just friends with attractive women. She may be "interesting" personality wise, her goals and values in life may intrigue him, but if she is attractive to him, he will want more. The female on that end will inevitably believe that their "friendship" is just that.* It is difficult for men to want just friendship with an attractive woman. Continue to act like you understand what it is like to be a man, because I assure you that you won't understand. There are ample studies to prove this just in case you want to continue to believe you know how men are/think when it comes to women.. Trust me when I say, the men you speak of when it comes to friendships, if they genuinely see a platonic relationship with you, I guarantee you it is because they are not sexually attracted to you.


----------



## purposive

@Promethea

my manNietzsche said it the best:​“A woman may very well form a friendship with a man, but for this to endure, it must be assisted by a little physical antipathy.”

I am not trying to be offensive, but this is a huge problem between men and women. Some women choose to not want to believe this. While some women understand this and do more good than harm.

Most women don't understand the meaning of friendship. If a man is attracted to you, aka he sees you as a potential sexual partner/conquest because let's face it, a hot girl is still a hot girl and men want to be with hot women... Than it is no longer considered a friendship on his part. Of course, the woman isn't aware of this either by intentional ignorance on her part or naivety... But to him it is no longer a friendship.


----------



## Promethea

purposive said:


> I'm not speaking for myself. Please stop acting like you know how men think, because you do not. Women tend to do this and I can't understand why. No, not necessarily. When women say "I can have make friends because I think of them as friends," they are speaking on their terms and only their terms. How do you know that men aren't masking their friendship for wanting something more?
> 
> Men can be friends with women if he finds her ugly. Why? There is no sexual motivation on his part. I don't know if you are pretending to not acknowledge mens instinctive needs. Once again, you are not a man. You have no concept of how men think. I'm not saying this to be offensive, this is a fact. Do you SERIOUSLY think that if a man thought you were hot that he wouldn't have the idea that befriending you would open doors towards something romantic and/or sexual? Please do not choose to be naive. If you're hot, a man might pretend and even believe in friendship, but deep down inside he has hopes that there will come an opportunity where something more will happen. That is why if a man thinks a woman is ugly, of course he can be JUST friends, his instincts aren't going to be activated. Of course a homosexual man can be friends with a woman, he isn't attracted to her like that.
> 
> I also never said men found women only interesting as sex objects LOL! I am saying once again...
> * Men do not want to be just friends with attractive women. She may be "interesting" personality wise, her goals and values in life may intrigue him, but if she is attractive to him, he will want more. The female on that end will inevitably believe that their "friendship" is just that.* It is difficult for men to want just friendship with an attractive woman. Continue to act like you understand what it is like to be a man, because I assure you that you won't understand. There are ample studies to prove this just in case you want to continue to believe you know how men are/think when it comes to women.. Trust me when I say, the men you speak of when it comes to friendships, if they genuinely see a platonic relationship with you, I guarantee you it is because they are not sexually attracted to you.


Stop acting like *you* know how men think. NONE of my male friends are like you.


----------



## purposive

@_Promethea_

Agree to disagree. It's not just how I think, it's how most men think. Look it up, do your research. Until than the kind of ignorant thinking about the instinctive needs and desires of men, the fact that women and men view platonic relationships differently is not cute. Your male friends, if they genuinely see you as a friend and not just on how you want to see it/your terms, they are more than likely not physically or sexually attracted to you, because if they were, you would know by now. Men and women can be friends - only if he is not physically or sexually attracted to her. There is overwhelming evidence to support this... Why anyone would choose to think otherwise is worrisome. Most men grow increasingly frustrated by this type of thinking that women share: that a friendship can be genuine between he and her. Sure it can! But if he thinks you're hot, it is not as genuine as you think it is, and it won't last. This isn't juvenile. It's a fact, based on instinctual and biological needs. 

Best to you.


----------



## stormgirl

I believe it's possible, but I also think that women are naive if they think that most or all of their male friends don't want more! But if that is discussed openly, it doesn't need to be a problem.
I prefer to be friends with men because I find most women to be highly manipulative and catty, and I find men to be more honest overall, which I respect.
The issue in my mind isn't whether or not men and women can be friends, but rather how rare it is to find a true friend in the first place regardless of gender!


----------



## JaySH

purposive said:


> I'm not speaking for myself. Please stop acting like you know how men think, because you do not. Women tend to do this and I can't understand why. No, not necessarily. When women say "I can have make friends because I think of them as friends," they are speaking on their terms and only their terms. How do you know that men aren't masking their friendship for wanting something more?
> 
> Men can be friends with women if he finds her ugly. Why? There is no sexual motivation on his part. I don't know if you are pretending to not acknowledge mens instinctive needs. Once again, you are not a man. You have no concept of how men think. I'm not saying this to be offensive, this is a fact. Do you SERIOUSLY think that if a man thought you were hot that he wouldn't have the idea that befriending you would open doors towards something romantic and/or sexual? Please do not choose to be naive. If you're hot, a man might pretend and even believe in friendship, but deep down inside he has hopes that there will come an opportunity where something more will happen. That is why if a man thinks a woman is ugly, of course he can be JUST friends, his instincts aren't going to be activated. Of course a homosexual man can be friends with a woman, he isn't attracted to her like that.
> 
> I also never said men found women only interesting as sex objects LOL! I am saying once again...
> * Men do not want to be just friends with attractive women. She may be "interesting" personality wise, her goals and values in life may intrigue him, but if she is attractive to him, he will want more. The female on that end will inevitably believe that their "friendship" is just that.* It is difficult for men to want just friendship with an attractive woman. Continue to act like you understand what it is like to be a man, because I assure you that you won't understand. There are ample studies to prove this just in case you want to continue to believe you know how men are/think when it comes to women.. Trust me when I say, the men you speak of when it comes to friendships, if they genuinely see a platonic relationship with you, I guarantee you it is because they are not sexually attracted to you.


You're certainly not speaking for me. I've had many female friends. One of which is getting married this year and called me the day she was proposed to. Is there a possibility I may be attracted to them and wonder sometimes? Sure...but, if it's not in the cards it's not in the cards and I would not blindly act on it. There is also the possibility I came to see them much like I see my sisters. I can appreciate their features as being pretty but have absolutely no attraction to them whatsoever. 

As has been pointed out, what about bisexual men? Can they not be friends with any attractive people? 

I would agree that most men, whether they care to admit it or not, will consider what a relationship or sexual encounter with a female friend would be like if they are attractive. They may even fantasize about it. But, if the friendship is just friendship, they will not all act on it. Having respect for the friendship and any other relationships outside of it actually matters to some men. And, I do not need to disallow friendships with women to honor and respect them. I have self control.


----------



## rosegeranium

purposive said:


> @_Promethea_
> 
> Agree to disagree. It's not just how I think, it's how most men think. Look it up, do your research. Until than the kind of ignorant thinking about the instinctive needs and desires of men, the fact that women and men view platonic relationships differently is not cute. Your male friends, if they genuinely see you as a friend and not just on how you want to see it/your terms, they are more than likely not physically or sexually attracted to you, because if they were, you would know by now. Men and women can be friends - only if he is not physically or sexually attracted to her. There is overwhelming evidence to support this... Why anyone would choose to think otherwise is worrisome. Most men grow increasingly frustrated by this type of thinking that women share: that a friendship can be genuine between he and her. Sure it can! But if he thinks you're hot, it is not as genuine as you think it is, and it won't last. This isn't juvenile. It's a fact, based on instinctual and biological needs.
> 
> Best to you.


I think that you are right in a lot of ways, but to be honest, I think that when _either_ gender finds the other one attractive they will want to get intimate. Women, I think, are more ok with declining intimacy with a friend because they know sex is always available. I think that some men will decline even an attractive female friend, however, in certain circumstances. It depends on if he feels like he is missing out on something, I think. I don't think there is anything wrong with being attracted to a friend of the opposite sex, but it doesn't mean we have to engage in sex. The more one denies that one is attracted, the more likely sex will occur. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, although I myself can't have sex with a friend unless I'm sure it will lead to something more. I think when a woman is very certain about her boundaries on the whole that the man will have more trouble actually having sex with her, should those boundaries one day lift. That is what I have noticed.

Personally, I think that physical attraction is not a bad thing. We can all be physically attracted to each other. What if everyone on earth was super hot? Does that mean we all have to screw? Well, some people will but I think it is neat to be able to "hold" your attraction for someone as a concept, like something you are aware of but can experience objectively. I can't ask a man not to be attracted to a friend, so long as he is aware of it all and not just acting like an animal, and does not treat me as if I am just chopped liver.


----------



## purposive

rosegeranium said:


> I think that you are right in a lot of ways, but to be honest, I think that when _either_ gender finds the other one attractive they will want to get intimate. Women, I think, are more ok with declining intimacy with a friend because they know sex is always available. I think that some men will decline even an attractive female friend, however, in certain circumstances. It depends on if he feels like he is missing out on something, I think. I don't think there is anything wrong with being attracted to a friend of the opposite sex, but it doesn't mean we have to engage in sex. The more one denies that one is attracted, the more likely sex will occur. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, although I myself can't have sex with a friend unless I'm sure it will lead to something more. I think when a woman is very certain about her boundaries on the whole that the man will have more trouble actually having sex with her, should those boundaries one day lift. That is what I have noticed.
> 
> Personally, I think that physical attraction is not a bad thing. We can all be physically attracted to each other. What if everyone on earth was super hot? Does that mean we all have to screw? Well, some people will but I think it is neat to be able to "hold" your attraction for someone as a concept, like something you are aware of but can experience objectively. I can't ask a man not to be attracted to a friend, so long as he is aware of it all and not just acting like an animal, and does not treat me as if I am just chopped liver.


You raised a really point. It frustrates me though when women have the same thinking that Promethea has. It's completely ignorant and I actually wonder if it is deliberate or not. The point about *women declining intimacy* More often than not women don't have to worry about mating and selection. Because they have the power to pick and choose who they want compared to men. Where men don't have this option most of the time. 

Interesting take on it. But it's not even about declining an attractive women.. And no.. I don't necessarily agree with you that they act on attractive if they feel that they are missing something. This is another example of why it annoys me when some women speak as if they know how men think and how men act based on instinct. I am sure that there are happy men who are in fulfilling relationships, that if presented with a pretty woman who offers "friendship." He will be faced with sexual thoughts... Women use emotional persuasion. Men use sexual. 


There was a study done to compare how each gender perceives the consequence of men and women being friends. Women were more likely to view sexual attraction from a male friend as negative, while a man was likely to view it as a good thing. Regardless if a woman is certain of her boundaries doesn't escape the fact that if a man finds a woman to be attractive, the friendship won't last. I'm not saying that a woman is merely a sexual object. I am saying it can be very hard for a man to combat his sexual desires resulting on him discontinuing the friendship. Women just need to be aware and not ignorant about this, so that they don't end up in a bad situation. Women sometimes act surprised at the thought of the revelation that their male friends have had sexual or romantic thoughts about them (if she is attractive.) another reason why when some women that pretend to know how men think a frustrate me.

physically attractive is not bad. What is bad is people willfully being naive. What is bad is some women sincerely believing that just because they see a guy as nothing more than a friend, than that means they are just friends even though most of the time a man doesn't share the same sentiments due to his instincts (if she is attractive.) physical attractiveness is great.. Just don't play the ignorant card is all I am saying. Ps I am speaking generally. 

You raise some good points.


----------



## Promethea

purposive said:


> @_Promethea_
> 
> Agree to disagree. It's not just how I think, it's how most men think. Look it up, do your research. Until than the kind of ignorant thinking about the instinctive needs and desires of men, the fact that women and men view platonic relationships differently is not cute. Your male friends, if they genuinely see you as a friend and not just on how you want to see it/your terms, they are more than likely not physically or sexually attracted to you, because if they were, you would know by now. Men and women can be friends - only if he is not physically or sexually attracted to her. There is overwhelming evidence to support this... Why anyone would choose to think otherwise is worrisome. Most men grow increasingly frustrated by this type of thinking that women share: that a friendship can be genuine between he and her. Sure it can! But if he thinks you're hot, it is not as genuine as you think it is, and it won't last. This isn't juvenile. It's a fact, based on instinctual and biological needs.
> 
> Best to you.


I have dealt with many like you. Though you know nothing about biology, you use it as an excuse to try to justify the actions that are actually a result of men being insecure in their masculinity. 

You really need to watch this.


----------



## Mr. Meepers

purposive said:


> I'm not speaking for myself. Please stop acting like you know how men think, because you do not. Women tend to do this and I can't understand why. No, not necessarily. When women say "I can have make friends because I think of them as friends," they are speaking on their terms and only their terms. How do you know that men aren't masking their friendship for wanting something more?


Wait a second. Did you tell her that she can't speak for men because she is a woman and then go tell her ho she, as a woman thinks? Even though you are not a woman :laughing:

I would also say that you are an individual man, so how can you say you understand how other men think when you seem to be claiming that women can't understand how men think? Or are you saying that because she disagrees with you and is a woman that she does not understand how men think :laughing:



> Men can be friends with women if he finds her ugly. Why? There is no sexual motivation on his part. I don't know if you are pretending to not acknowledge mens instinctive needs. Once again, you are not a man. You have no concept of how men think. I'm not saying this to be offensive, this is a fact. Do you SERIOUSLY think that if a man thought you were hot that he wouldn't have the idea that befriending you would open doors towards something romantic and/or sexual? Please do not choose to be naive. If you're hot, a man might pretend and even believe in friendship, but deep down inside he has hopes that there will come an opportunity where something more will happen. That is why if a man thinks a woman is ugly, of course he can be JUST friends, his instincts aren't going to be activated. Of course a homosexual man can be friends with a woman, he isn't attracted to her like that.


First off, ime, physical attraction is not a constant thing (I assume by "ugly" you are talking about physical features and not personality). For instance, I originally thought my first girlfriend was unattractive (before I dated her), but as I got to know her, even though her body did not change, I became physically attracted to her. You could say that my sense of an emotional connection altered my sense of aesthetics and sense of physical attraction. So, with the exception not being in their gender and/or sex preference, I don't think saying "lack of initial physical attraction" can ensure someone will "just be friends" (I mean you are friends, you are probably likely to find at least certain aspects of their personality to be interesting and/or "good").

But, I would also say that just because you are attracted to someone, that does not mean you have to act on that attraction. In fact, some people may not want to act on that attraction. Personally, I've had a number female friends that I have been attracted to, but had very fulfilling friendships with as well.
Why? Well I think it is because I no longer believe I need to be in a relationship to be happy, nor do I feel that I need to be in a relationship with that friend. I realise that there are plenty of women who are compatible with me out there and I value the friendship immensely. So I don't feel the need to pine over those women (nor do I have a sense of urgency to jump in a relationship) and I can enjoy hanging out with them as friends.



> I also never said men found women only interesting as sex objects LOL! I am saying once again...
> * Men do not want to be just friends with attractive women. She may be "interesting" personality wise, her goals and values in life may intrigue him, but if she is attractive to him, he will want more. The female on that end will inevitably believe that their "friendship" is just that.* It is difficult for men to want just friendship with an attractive woman. Continue to act like you understand what it is like to be a man, because I assure you that you won't understand. There are ample studies to prove this just in case you want to continue to believe you know how men are/think when it comes to women.. Trust me when I say, the men you speak of when it comes to friendships, if they genuinely see a platonic relationship with you, I guarantee you it is because they are not sexually attracted to you.


You may have said that men may value an attractive woman for more than sex, but you had said that if a man wants friends that he will find other men. This tell me that according to you, men will always view woman as a sex object ... she may be more, but by virtue of being a woman his inability to not think of her as a sex object will interfere with his friendship with her.
^^ That is how I read it.

If that is the case, it would seem like, according to you, that a large portion of a man's value of any "beautiful" woman is in her ability to be sexy to him. So instead of her sexual appeal just being a layer, being a sexual object would take up much of how he sees her and he would be placing less value on other aspect of her humanity (I said "*other* aspects" because sexual appeal can be beyond her body and it can go into her mannerisms and personality and such).

To me that is seeing someone more as a sex object than a human (or at least almost equal to her human-ness).

If that is the implication of what you said, then I disagree that most men think that way. Certainly not all men think that way ... and if they do, I would think it was more from social conditioning than inherantly biological 

Interesting side note: Environmental influence can affect biology ... I mean it can affect the structure of the brain of an adult human. To what extent, I don't think neuroscientists know yet.


----------



## Hal Jordan Prime

Promethea said:


> Stop acting like *you* know how men think. NONE of my male friends are like you.


You're criticizing him for making broad assumptions yet you're also making a broad assumption on part of your male friends. Can you read their minds for them?


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## JaySH

Hal Jordan Prime said:


> You're criticizing him for making broad assumptions yet you're also making a broad assumption on part of your male friends. Can you read their minds for them?


Even if her friends do have an attraction to her, the fact they have not acted on it and the friendship is ongoing is proof enough! Why would she need to read minds to know this to be true? 

And, comparing her opinion based on her personal experience with male friends to an opinion that speaks of ALL men simply because one man feels this way is a stretch! 

I'm curious, when families are friendly, and the wives are attractive but husbands extremely close, can the husbands not be trusted with each other's wives? Is it impossible to be friendly without an uncontrollable urge to boink thy friend's wife? Because, if it is possible in this scenario, why not in others? 

Either way, he spoke for all men in stating we could not be friends with women if there was an attraction. She said it was possible for some men to do so. She's correct as, I am a man. @_Mr. Meepers_ is a man. We both attest to having done so successfully. Numerous other men in here have expressed the same! 

Any man who can't value the friendship and opinions of an attractive female because "wanting to boink them is just so hard to ignore" should seriously do some self reflecting and maturing! It was a cute/comical premise for "When Harry Met Sally". It does not pertain to all men. It does not pertain to me.


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## Hal Jordan Prime

JaySH said:


> Even if her friends do have an attraction to her, the fact they have not acted on it and the friendship is ongoing is proof enough! Why would she need to read minds to know this to be true?
> 
> And, comparing her opinion based on her personal experience with male friends to an opinion that speaks of ALL men simply because one man feels this way is a stretch!
> 
> I'm curious, when families are friendly, and the wives are attractive but husbands extremely close, can the husbands not be trusted with each other's wives? Is it impossible to be friendly without an uncontrollable urge to boink thy friend's wife? Because, if it is possible in this scenario, why not in others?
> 
> Either way, he spoke for all men in stating we could not be friends with women if there was an attraction. She said it was possible for some men to do so. She's correct as, I am a man. @_Mr. Meepers_ is a man. We both attest to having done so successfully. Numerous other men in here have expressed the same!
> 
> Any man who can't value the friendship and opinions of an attractive female because "wanting to boink them is just so hard to ignore" should seriously do some self reflecting and maturing! It was a cute/comical premise for "When Harry Met Sally". It does not pertain to all men. It does not pertain to me.


I don't support every single word @purposive has stated but this statement is where I think @Promethea had beef with judging by her bolding it



> _*Men do not want to be just friends with attractive women. She may be "interesting" personality wise, her goals and values in life may intrigue him, but if she is attractive to him, he will want more. The female on that end will inevitably believe that their "friendship" is just that.*_


I would agree with this statement to a degree. Any straight male without any sexual dysfunction when engaged with an attractive female will want some kind of non-platonic relationship with them BUT that doesn't necessarily mean they will act upon it or further pursue it. In fact most men probably abandon that goal right away either because they feel insecure, threatened or find someone else that is better or their standards are too high that they do not feel the woman is worth the effort. Whatever excuse they come up with to rationalize it. 

The female doesn't even have to be attractive physically. They can be attractive personally or be a kindred spirit.

But I'm sticking by my statement: majority if not all straight men will develop non-platonic feelings for an attractive woman. Can they be friends? Yes. But if they can get more, they'll definitely humour that idea unless either their a) logical rules or; b) moral rules shut down that instinct to mate. And since we're such a "civilized" and "advanced" society, most men probably let their logic and morals pipe down their horndogginess.



> by virtue of being a woman his inability to not think of her as a sex object will interfere with his friendship with her.


True to an extent. I'll tie this to a man's moral/logical rules versus their natural instinct to mate/reproduce. Depending on which one has a stronger influence on the male

Since we're being controversial, I'd like to say a lot of males today have been overly civilized to the point they are out of touch with their natural urge to mate and/or reproduce. We're dudes. We think about fucking all the time. Some guys have been raised to believe that thinking of women sexually is a negative thing (or are they sexually confused?) Why? It's as natural as peeing or taking a shit. So long as they don't try to fuck every woman they see I don't see how it's an issue.

But back on topic, men and women can be friends but if the man is attracted to the female that urge to mate with her will always be present. It's just a question of whether he will follow this urge or if he is even aware of it.


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## JaySH

Hal Jordan Prime said:


> I don't support every single word @_purposive_ has stated but this statement is where I think @_Promethea_ had beef with judging by her bolding it
> 
> 
> I would agree with this statement to a degree. Any straight male without any sexual dysfunction when engaged with an attractive female will want some kind of non-platonic relationship with them BUT that doesn't necessarily mean they will act upon it or further pursue it. In fact most men probably abandon that goal right away either because they feel insecure, threatened or find someone else that is better or their standards are too high that they do not feel the woman is worth the effort. Whatever excuse they come up with to rationalize it.
> 
> The female doesn't even have to be attractive physically. They can be attractive personally or be a kindred spirit.
> 
> But I'm sticking by my statement: majority if not all straight men will develop non-platonic feelings for an attractive woman. Can they be friends? Yes. But if they can get more, they'll definitely humour that idea unless either their a) logical rules or; b) moral rules shut down that instinct to mate. And since we're such a "civilized" and "advanced" society, most men probably let their logic and morals pipe down their horndogginess.
> 
> 
> True to an extent. I'll tie this to a man's moral/logical rules versus their natural instinct to mate/reproduce. Depending on which one has a stronger influence on the male
> 
> Since we're being controversial, I'd like to say a lot of males today have been overly civilized to the point they are out of touch with their natural urge to mate and/or reproduce. We're dudes. We think about fucking all the time. Some guys have been raised to believe that thinking of women sexually is a negative thing (or are they sexually confused?) Why? It's as natural as peeing or taking a shit. So long as they don't try to fuck every woman they see I don't see how it's an issue.
> 
> But back on topic, men and women can be friends but if the man is attracted to the female that urge to mate with her will always be present. It's just a question of whether he will follow this urge or if he is even aware of it.



You're not arguing his argument. And, I agree with most of what you said. I've said the same. The mere point of being attracted to someone is tied to a sexual desire internally. However, knowing and acknowledging it does not mean having to act on it. It also doesn't mean that any and all desire for friendship is lost, or never felt in the first place as he asserted with the bolded statement (particularly the underlined portion). 

Her point that she has male friends who are not like that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't secretly or even openly attracted to her. She's very attractive so I doubt that would be the case but, based on her statements, they've never acted on it and they are still friends. This shows they ARE interested in friendship with her, regardless of any sexual attraction they may or may not feel. That would be in direct conflict with what he has stated. 

To claim the entire straight male population (and i am part of that) consider attractive women for nothing other than a means for sexual pleasure is a bold, disrespectful and ridiculous statement that I take offense to because it is not true of me! If anyone wants to make such statements they should speak for themselves or for a portion of the population, as it's safe to assume some feel the same. But, not the entirety of straight men!


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## Promethea

Hal Jordan Prime said:


> You're criticizing him for making broad assumptions yet you're also making a broad assumption on part of your male friends. Can you read their minds for them?


Me and my friends actually discuss these issues. I had about three open IMs at the time this exchange was going on and the ones I was talking to had harsher criticisms for him that I had after reading what I linked. Yes, me and my friends are very open with each other. And I saw two of them thank my responses to this guy.

And when I say that they are not like him -- what I meant was more in response to his first post where he says that men wouldn't pick women as friends, but just other men. And yes I am very critical of any mindset that ignorant. There isn't some biology ruling that men can't enjoy a woman's personality on a platonic level. I obviously have male friends who aren't like that, as well, we are in fact -friends-. I have a brain, I have interests, I am valuable as a friend beyond fuckmeat. Women can be just as intelligent and interesting as men, and have interests in things. -People- can build friendships based on those things, and not everyone in the world wants to screw everyone else merely because they are of the opposite sex. 

A while back I lived near a campus and had some friends who were in college; a huge group of males and females, and they weren't even hooking up with each other, other than the few who were dating. They had healthy friendships built on mutual interests in activities. I don't know why this is such a radical, hard to believe idea to people like purporsive. 

I read an article some time later talking about that specific university; how hookup culture was not a big thing there at all. Then again, at this university we are talking about intelligent people, not people who think like cavemen.



JaySH said:


> You're not arguing his argument. And, I agree with most of what you said. I've said the same. The mere point of being attracted to someone is tied to a sexual desire internally. However, knowing and acknowledging it does not mean having to act on it. It also doesn't mean that any and all desire for friendship is lost, or never felt in the first place as he asserted with the bolded statement (particularly the underlined portion).
> 
> Her point that she has male friends who are not like that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't secretly or even openly attracted to her. She's very attractive so I doubt that would be the case but, based on her statements, they've never acted on it and they are still friends. This shows they ARE interested in friendship with her, regardless of any sexual attraction they may or may not feel. That would be in direct conflict with what he has stated.
> 
> To claim the entire straight male population (and i am part of that) consider attractive women for nothing other than a means for sexual pleasure is a bold, disrespectful and ridiculous statement that I take offense to because it is not true of me! If anyone wants to make such statements they should speak for themselves or for a portion of the population, as it's safe to assume some feel the same. But, not the entirety of straight men!


The ones who have gotten all weird with me end up getting weeded out. I have had several male friends for many years (not waiting in line for a few months to see if they can fuck me) and no problems, some of them even have girlfriends (and there are guys aren't interested in other women sexually when they are dating someone).

Not every man is so simple that he will be attracted to every woman he sees who isn't an ogre. Attraction is more complex than that, I'd certainly hope for most people. And I am a valuable friend to my male and female friends alike - though I have many more male than female friends, just always have.

CAN a guy be more than a walking erection: yes. But unfortunately the dense ones who are little more than a dick with a keyboard think they can speak for -*all*- men.

My point is that they cannot. Anyway, that video I posted is something that would be helpful to people like that, so they can stop using their failed understanding of theories in biology as an excuse, and recognize that they are *socialized* to see all women as fuckmeat.


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy

I sometimes want to fuck my female friends, but couldn't give two shits about my masculinity. :/


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## 626Stitch

Yes because some things are more important than an orgasm.


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## Hal Jordan Prime

ThatOneWeirdGuy said:


> I sometimes want to fuck my female friends, but couldn't give two shits about my masculinity. :/


I usually want to fuck my female friends but there's a matter of "morals" that keeps cock blocking me


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## ThatOneWeirdGuy

Hal Jordan Prime said:


> I usually want to fuck my female friends but there's a matter of "morals" that keeps cock blocking me


I was mostly referring to an earlier post made by Promethea, but I never got the "morals" behind that. It's just that I'm not in that friendship for the purpose of having sex with them. That's not my goal. It's just that I have a penis, so I'll think about it sometimes. Not because I'm insecure about my masculinity lol. But I definitely like them in a non-romantic way, which is rare for me to say about anybody. (because I like almost nobody, not because I like everybody romantically lol)


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## Swede

I think that is really interesting that we keep talking about male sexuality as the determining factor when it comes to friendship between men and women. The fact is that women are sexual beings too. I have been in a few relationships where I was definitely the more sexual party. Just as some men explain that they choose to not constantly act on their urges, women often do the same. (It is also true that society judges women that act on their urges more harshly than men doing the same, so I believe that it impacts the way many women (don't) act out their sexuality too, but that is a whole other discussion.)

I am married and have chosen to live in a monogamous relationship. That does not mean that I can't be attracted to other men or that I can't enjoy reading erotica or have sexual fantasies. For me personally, my sexuality is a pretty good indicator for how the rest of my life is going. In periods where I have been depressed or very stressed, I don't really have the energy for sex in any form. 

I have chosen to see also the parts of my sexuality that I don't act on as a gift. I can enjoy feeling it and knowing that it is there without acting on it. It's like enjoying a piece of nature; it is wondrous, miraculous, it brings me joy, but I don't have to catch it and make it mine in order to truly appreciate it. I think that this kind of a conscious choice it is a maturity thing rather than a gender thing.


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## ITeachYo

I believe so. It will depend on a whole boatload of factors of course, but I have managed to be in a committed relationship, and have a male friend with whom I go to various restaurants and bars and movies with. There is no mutual attraction on either end and we are very open and honest with each other. It works for us but he's the only guy my man really feels comfortable with me being friends with.


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## ITeachYo

Swede said:


> I think that is really interesting that we keep talking about male sexuality as the determining factor when it comes to friendship between men and women. The fact is that women are sexual beings too. I have been in a few relationships where I was definitely the more sexual party. Just as some men explain that they choose to not constantly act on their urges, women often do the same. (It is also true that society judges women that act on their urges more harshly than men doing the same, so I believe that it impacts the way many women (don't) act out their sexuality too, but that is a whole other discussion.)
> 
> I am married and have chosen to live in a monogamous relationship. That does not mean that I can't be attracted to other men or that I can't enjoy reading erotica or have sexual fantasies. For me personally, my sexuality is a pretty good indicator for how the rest of my life is going. In periods where I have been depressed or very stressed, I don't really have the energy for sex in any form.


Agree with this so very much!


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## sereneone

Zegaray said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


This question is like asking "Can two people with common interests talk to each other about anything other than sex?"

Well? Of course two people can have friendship based on common activity or common intellectual interest. If those people happen to be of the opposite sex, that won't necessarily detract from their interaction. The key thing is that each person should ask the other (or simply understand implicitly) "What are your goals for this relationship?" If one of the two sides hesitates to answer that question clearly, then there is probably a hidden relationship or sex-based agenda, and sure that is going to have the potential to create a tension or problem in acting outside of sexual roles.

To be honest I find this question really sad. What I really think is that most people have so little to say to each other, and so little intellectual activity between each other, that most of their relationships end up being instinctual and emotional and sexual and there just isn't a model there for the person to come together with another person around activity or ideas.


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## FallingSlowly

Yes. I actually have slightly more male than female friends. Some of them are gay, some of them are straight. Some of them I wouldn't feel sexually attracted to in a million years, some of them are exes (so I obviously was at some point). 
To me, it's not the fact that there might be sexual attraction involved, it's if and how you act on it. I feel attracted to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean I'd want a relationship with them. 

There's hopefully a bit more to both friendships and relationships than just hormones...


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## Tridentus

it's a case of valuing your friendship over sex.. obviously you'd never value a friendship over sex + a good relationship, but if you have the intuition and foresight to know that whilst you're good friends a relationship would never work out- you can have the discipline to know that your friendship > sex / a bad relationship.

i'm usually friends with ENFP women for this very reason- ENFP/ENFP isn't usually a recipe for success in terms of commitment, but we make great friends.


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## ficsci

I was going to answer "Yes, they can!" But to think about it, maybe when we're both old and can't find anyone else, I might consider marrying a guy friend of mine. Right now (and before) I always find that his personality is unattractive (as in _that_ way). Physically, you can say he is attractive, but not my type (and based on what I know, I'm not his type). I can't see him as a guy I'd ever want to have a romantic relationship with. But we actually get along unusually well as friends... but maybe not if we date, because I might end up getting annoyed at him all the time :/

I was just thinking the other day, if I get a boyfriend, would it still be okay to hang out with my guy friend like I did before? Would it mean that I have to keep a distance (at least physically, but maybe also emotionally) from him? That would suck :'( Or maybe it would be okay if the boyfriend also becomes close to him...

Actually I don't understand how his current gf is fine with him having so many other female friends. Or is she?


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## JaySH

FallingSlowly said:


> Yes. I actually have slightly more male than female friends. Some of them are gay, some of them are straight. Some of them I wouldn't feel sexually attracted to in a million years, some of them are exes (so I obviously was at some point).
> To me, it's not the fact that there might be sexual attraction involved, it's if and how you act on it. I feel attracted to a lot of people, but that doesn't mean I'd want a relationship with them.
> 
> There's hopefully a bit *more to both friendships and relationships than just hormones*...


Well, well said. Particularly the bolded and underlined part. :happy:


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## Belzy

Zegaray said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


I believe it's common behaviour from men to act like they are friends just to try to score, but that doesn't mean men and women can't just be friends. There are friendships between them based on shared interests without any intention to get 'lucky' (despite both being heterosexual and single). I know this, while I'm experiencing it. With whom it can varies per person.


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## error

If I castrate myself does that mean I can be friends with everyone?:crazy:


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## Belzy

error said:


> If I castrate myself does that mean I can be friends with everyone?:crazy:


No, it doesn't.


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## Purrfessor




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## error

AAADD said:


> No, it doesn't.


Oh... this plan certainly backfired.


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## la_revolucion

I always thought most people believed that men and women could be friends? My girlfriends are always telling me they have great friends who are guys. That's totally cool and fine! 

Though I am personally not "just friends" with a guy. My guy friends have all either been gay or ditched me after they discovered I was faithful to my boyfriend. Now I have good male acquaintances. I get along great with some of my friend's boyfriends. Sometimes I will go their apartment and chat with them, just the three of us. If I saw him alone on the street I would give him a warm hello and ask him how everything is going. And sometimes my boyfriend and I go on double dates.

But I don't hang out with guys one on one unless it's for professional reasons. And if it's professional we aren't even hanging out, we are discussing business, and it's probably my boss. 

Luckily my boyfriend agrees with me 100% so we haven't had any conflict over this. I know this is a controversial opinion and my girlfriends like to playfully chew me out over it, but hey... It's what life experiences have led me to believe. But I don't expect anyone else to see life as I do.


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## Playful Proxy

sereneone said:


> This question is like asking "Can two people with common interests talk to each other about anything other than sex?"
> 
> Well? Of course two people can have friendship based on common activity or common intellectual interest. If those people happen to be of the opposite sex, that won't necessarily detract from their interaction. The key thing is that each person should ask the other (or simply understand implicitly) "What are your goals for this relationship?" If one of the two sides hesitates to answer that question clearly, then there is probably a hidden relationship or sex-based agenda, and sure that is going to have the potential to create a tension or problem in acting outside of sexual roles.
> 
> To be honest I find this question really sad. What I really think is that most people have so little to say to each other, and so little intellectual activity between each other, that most of their relationships end up being instinctual and emotional and sexual and there just isn't a model there for the person to come together with another person around activity or ideas.


I actually disagree with you quite a bit on this. From my experience, I've found that if I'm after intelligent conversation, discussion, and 'hanging out', I'll stick with my male buddies. You can shoot me all you want for being stereotypical, but finding a woman sharing my interests takes so long, it is more efficient for me to just assume that my interests in women would be for relationship/sexual-based whereas finding a 'friend', I'd be far better off looking to the male spectrum. 

I mean, this forum is likely the exception, but walking around a college campus asking random females about their cares for nuclear fission reaction-powered rockets, superconductivity, and the nuances of Java vs C++ likely isn't something most would care about. Engineering and CompSci degrees have a very high sex gap. 30% female, 70% male where I"m at.


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## LittleOrange

I already wrote about this on the forum, but I´d like to see what men think about it.

So, I think that although you find someone attractive I don´t think you should pursue relationship with that person if you conclude that you are not compatible. At least it´s in my case that way. If I conclude that I´m not compatible with someone I´ll give up on them although I might find them attractive. It can be hard sometimes, but I think it´s better than entering a relationship that is doomed to fail. But, guys on the other hand, seem to want to date a girl only because they find her attractive (physically, personality-wise, or both). They don´t seem to think about future compatibility. Is that true? I would just like to hear men´s opinion.


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## sereneone

Signify said:


> I actually disagree with you quite a bit on this. From my experience, I've found that if I'm after intelligent conversation, discussion, and 'hanging out', I'll stick with my male buddies. You can shoot me all you want for being stereotypical, but finding a woman sharing my interests takes so long, it is more efficient for me to just assume that my interests in women would be for relationship/sexual-based whereas finding a 'friend', I'd be far better off looking to the male spectrum.
> 
> I mean, this forum is likely the exception, but walking around a college campus asking random females about their cares for nuclear fission reaction-powered rockets, superconductivity, and the nuances of Java vs C++ likely isn't something most would care about. Engineering and CompSci degrees have a very high sex gap. 30% female, 70% male where I"m at.


Actually, Signify, your post displays a real lack of scientific vigor. You are saying you want to base your friendships based on specific intellectual interests. That's fine, and in the case of your interests most of your potential friends are male.

That is not an argument against the possibility of friendships with females. In fact by your own facts 30% of the potential candidates are females.

You fail to provide a single argument - theoretical or empirical - about why a woman with the prerequisite interests and skills could not be your friend. The fact that statistically this is unlikely is not a substitute for such an argument.


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## sereneone

LittleOrange said:


> I already wrote about this on the forum, but I´d like to see what men think about it.
> 
> So, I think that although you find someone attractive I don´t think you should pursue relationship with that person if you conclude that you are not compatible. At least it´s in my case that way. If I conclude that I´m not compatible with someone I´ll give up on them although I might find them attractive. It can be hard sometimes, but I think it´s better than entering a relationship that is doomed to fail. But, guys on the other hand, seem to want to date a girl only because they find her attractive (physically, personality-wise, or both). They don´t seem to think about future compatibility. Is that true? I would just like to hear men´s opinion.


LittleOrange, your post reminds me of what Taylor Swift says about her ex's in interviews. Once she determines the person is not right for her, she cuts them off. If the guy has a romantic interest in you and he is not willing to deviate from that path, and you think he is not the right romantic partner for you, then sure your approach makes sense. Seems pretty brutal to me, but if you are the person who a million people want a piece of, I guess you have to engage in self preservation.

My own view is different. I have definitely had friendships with women where both of us were sexually attracted. It's critical in such cases to admit the attraction and to state plainly the rules that it is hands off. And - the critical element for friendship - there needs to actually be some common interest between you that doesn't involve sex. Since I mentioned Taylor Swift, let me use that as a hypothetical example. I would have no problem being a friend with such a person - maybe even be her relationship coach - and could easily live with a rule that no relationship was possible. What's in it for me? She's an incredibly smart human being with amazing musical and visual creativity. I would be enriched just by discussions and exposure to such a person. What's theoretically in it for her? There would be interesting and open and honest discussions about relationship dynamics and methods, topics that I am pretty sure are close to her heart.  As long as you are both getting some real value from interaction that doesn't involve romance, I think you can navigate mutual attraction that isn't allowed to go farther.

For guys under 30, I would agree that 90% of their behavior is explained by sexual attraction or desire to get sex. A lot of romantic fantasies of teenage women get shattered in their early 20s when they come to understand how ruthless men can be about pursuing sex with singlemindedness, and how much they can lie about their real feelings or their concurrent relationships with other women, all in the name of continuing to get sex with a woman.

I would also agree that most men aren't interested in a female friend that cannot lead to sex. For whatever reason, men tend to prefer male friends.

I was posting earlier about the case where a man and a woman do not have a romantic interest in each other. Can friendship exist in that case? Obviously based on what I already said, I think yes. They just have to share a connection on some level that is important to each of them.


----------



## Playful Proxy

sereneone said:


> Actually, Signify, your post displays a real lack of scientific vigor. You are saying you want to base your friendships based on specific intellectual interests. That's fine, and in the case of your interests most of your potential friends are male.
> 
> That is not an argument against the possibility of friendships with females. In fact by your own facts 30% of the potential candidates are females.
> 
> You fail to provide a single argument - theoretical or empirical - about why a woman with the prerequisite interests and skills could not be your friend. The fact that statistically this is unlikely is not a substitute for such an argument.


I'm not attempting to say a woman could not have those interests. That's the thing. It's perfectly possible, it's just less likely from what I've experienced, and I see no reason to go out of my way to find a friend with my interests, solely because she is female. If you're looking for something, does it not make sense to look for it in the most likely place it can be found? I'm not saying a woman with those interests cannot be my friend, I'm just saying it isn't worth my time to go out of my way to look for her. 

If I come across such a person, cool, otherwise, finding male engineers and computer science majors who are males is easy. In most cases, I like easy (hehe).


----------



## sereneone

Signify said:


> I'm not attempting to say a woman could not have those interests. That's the thing. It's perfectly possible, it's just less likely from what I've experienced, and I see no reason to go out of my way to find a friend with my interests, solely because she is female. If you're looking for something, does it not make sense to look for it in the most likely place it can be found? I'm not saying a woman with those interests cannot be my friend, I'm just saying it isn't worth my time to go out of my way to look for her.
> 
> If I come across such a person, cool, otherwise, finding male engineers and computer science majors who are males is easy. In most cases, I like easy (hehe).


Right, and the topic here is "CAN men and women really be JUST friends?"

That addresses the theoretical possibility of such a relationship, not the statistical likelihood.


----------



## Playful Proxy

sereneone said:


> Right, and the topic here is "CAN men and women really be JUST friends?"
> 
> That addresses the theoretical possibility of such a relationship, not the statistical likelihood.


Errr....I get off topic sometimes...kinda. To answer THAT question, it'd probably work best if both parties were gay.


----------



## Purrfessor

Friends with some sort of sexual tension. Sexual tension doesn't have to be acted on.


----------



## snail

Zegaray said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


I probably have an equal number of male and female friends right now. My husband and I often spend time with other married couples. I assure you that it is possible to be friends with people of all genders without having sexual expectations. People who see all men or all women as nothing but potential sexual partners tend to be immature and probably need a lot more experience relating to each other as ordinary human beings.

When a one-sided romantic attraction happens between friends, as it sometimes will because intimacy increases over time, the friendship does not have to be ruined by it. I have maintained amazing friendships with people I was attracted to, and also with people who admitted that they were attracted to me. Every person has a right to his/her feelings, and as long as there is mutual respect, rejecting someone's friendship to penalize him/her for falling in love would be harmful and unnecessary.


----------



## LittleOrange

@sereneone : so are you saying that it´s true? Guys don´t think about compatibility? And yeah, just in my case, I don´t evan have to date them, I know before if it will work out or not....

And why does everyone here refer to _sexual _attraction when reffering to attraction between a man and a woman. I don´t think falling in love with someone has anything to do with sex or?


----------



## Purrfessor

LittleOrange said:


> @_sereneone_ : so are you saying that it´s true? Guys don´t think about compatibility? And yeah, just in my case, I don´t evan have to date them, I know before if it will work out or not....
> 
> And why does everyone here refer to _sexual _attraction when reffering to attraction between a man and a woman. I don´t think falling in love with someone has anything to do with sex or?


Sorry. When I said sexual tension I was referring to tension of either compatibility or sex. I just don't see any hetero people looking at the opposite sex without considering or thinking about sex/love unless they are in a happy and stable relationship already, or if it's taboo (like daughter or friend's daughter or whatever).


----------



## FallingSlowly

LittleOrange said:


> And why does everyone here refer to _sexual _attraction when reffering to attraction between a man and a woman. I don´t think falling in love with someone has anything to do with sex or?


Because sex(ual attraction) is an integral part of a fulfilling romantic relationship, unless both (!) partners are asexual. Which happens, and if both are happy with it, that's fine. I'd say though it's not the rule.

If sexual attraction wasn't part of a romantic relationship, relationships would be mostly sexless. That's a friendship. I love my friends deeply, but it's not the same, and the attraction is not comparable either. I never fell in love with someone I wasn't sexually attracted to. That doesn't mean it's _just_ the sex that's important...


----------



## MartinW

Yes, but if either one isn't having a serious crush/serious relationship the possibility of attraction increases significantly.


----------



## sereneone

Stelliferous said:


> Friends with some sort of sexual tension. Sexual tension doesn't have to be acted on.


True, but when such tension exists I think it is best to call it out explicitly and talk about it. I've been in very very uncomfortable situations where a married woman is attracted to me and I don't address the attraction and being silent just makes it worse ultimately. I don't want to get involved with a married person so saying that sooner rather than later is usually a good thing. Friendship is possible when you are both attracted, but it is a tricky slope.


----------



## sereneone

LittleOrange said:


> @_sereneone_ : so are you saying that it´s true? Guys don´t think about compatibility? And yeah, just in my case, I don´t evan have to date them, I know before if it will work out or not....
> 
> And why does everyone here refer to _sexual _attraction when reffering to attraction between a man and a woman. I don´t think falling in love with someone has anything to do with sex or?


 @_LittleOrange_ this should really be a new thread, and I think you could go on in a long conversation about the question "What makes men and women fall in love with each other?"

For me, there are three different elements that combine:

1) Sexual chemistry (attraction at first, and later do you actually like the person sexually)

2) Emotional and intellectual chemistry (how do you relate to each other non-sexually)

3) Satisfaction of key psychological needs

Item 3) is for me just a checklist of things I think I need in a mate outside of sex and personality. In my case that is: a) High IQ (but how that is packaged is important to me), b) high lyrical creativity (minimum a poet but preferably a songwriter), c) visual creativity (at least some kind of visual design aesthetic or at minimum a love and appreciation for visual arts) and d) competence in decision making. These are particulars just for my case. As an aside, I've decided I'm pretty much totally screwed here.  Not a lot of people walking around who match on all of these things.

My general observation is that people should be balancing those three things against each other in maybe equal proportions when thinking about a candidate for a mate. In reality, I think men tend to neglect item 3) entirely and women barely think about it.

For men under 30 I think the weighting is about 70% sexual chemistry and 30% emotional chemistry.

For women I think the weighting is about 50% emotional chemistry, 40% sexual chemistry, and maybe 10% key psychological needs.

This is a BIG topic. Maybe we should start a separate thread and link it here.


----------



## nevermore

Stelliferous said:


> Sorry. When I said sexual tension I was referring to tension of either compatibility or sex. I just don't see any hetero people looking at the opposite sex without considering or thinking about sex/love unless they are in a happy and stable relationship already, or if it's taboo (like daughter or friend's daughter or whatever).


Well, they do if they are picky, or if they know they're not their type. If the two people are at similar levels of attractiveness this is true, but personal preferences and (bluntly) people being in different "leagues" play a big part.

I have to admit I still find it funny when I see my less attractive male friends congratulating one of my very attractive female friends (you know, the one who every guy seems to be after) whenever she "scores" with this forced enthusiasm (it would really be better if they'd just nodded and given her a quick "congratulations" or something like that, it would make the hollowness less obvious, though I think there's a good chance it would still seep through). The over the top approval, as if to fight their natural feelings, rings with obvious if desperately disguised regret in their voices. They really _want_ to be happy for her, but they can't be.

I don't think it's a bad thing, necessarily; friendship between people, of whatever sexes, can offer a lot, and it would be a shame to let attraction get in the way when there is a lot to be gained from a friendship. Just because we have certain desires doesn't mean we don't have other desires that contradict them, but it takes self-control and acceptance of the situation. I am cynical when it comes to my beliefs on how many people possess this ability, but I still think it would be a beneficial ideal for people to aspire to if they can handle it. (Accepting someone is out of your league is something a lot of people seem to have trouble doing; it is certainly understandable).

It's better if the attraction to the person is mostly physical. That has seldom been a problem in my experience, though I won't speak for others. The emotional attraction is harder to get over, because a) a broken heart hurts a lot more than "blue balls", and b) deep friendships are emotionally oriented to begin with, causing real conflict. This can be gotten over, but sadly it usually comes at the cost of keeping the friendship on a more casual level.


----------



## Azelll

Zegaray said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?




I do it all the time, INFP male hanging with INFP females, I never really notice a romantic situation between any of us just a friendly hug here and there, and rather never thought about getting with any of them or cared for that matter, think its all in the male and females perspective, i cant speak for my female friends idk if they have any hidden agendas to try to get in my pants but I certainly don't have one for them. You can argue and say INFPs are to innocent, but that argument is invalid i would argue more so that INFPs an act more mature than most personalities and rather would want friendship over sex or rather a close bond, its something I notice INFPs long for more than anything :happy:


----------



## error

The only time a woman ever said, "I don't want to be in a relationship because it would ruin our friendship." was after we had slept together. I think it's a little too late at that point to pull the, "just friends" card.


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## klever187

Ok I partly agree with it has to do with maturity. I think it has much more to do with physical attraction. You could totally be friends with a girl but in the back of your mind you'll always be thinking about sexual intimacy in some fashion. The only girls that I haven't done anything with are the ones I'm just not into in any way. So, just talking from my experiences.


----------



## Kantonuser

klever187 said:


> Ok I partly agree with it has to do with maturity. I think it has much more to do with physical attraction. You could totally be friends with a girl but in the back of your mind you'll always be thinking about sexual intimacy in some fashion. The only girls that I haven't done anything with are the ones I'm just not into in any way. So, just talking from my experiences.


Well depends.

There was this girl who had a crush on me and was really intrusive. Though she didn't appeal to me because of that and also looks "just not my type". 
Now we are only "good friends".
Though i can't say if thats true for her side aswell.


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## Law

Of course they can. If they're not attracted to one another, they can be easy friends. Even if they are attracted physically to one another, but don't see the other as a potential successful partner, they can still be just friends.

And it more often than not is up to the woman in the friendship, as it so often is in the Animal Kingdom.


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## OddKitten

It's possible. Though, quite honestly, I think there is always some sort of "attraction" present. From my experience, there is almost always a party that is interested in taking the relationship further. 

Many of my friends are men, but I form closer bonds with women. Sadly, I find it difficult to find a woman who's company I thoroughly enjoy. :/


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## Igloos

This is such a stupid idea. I'm gay, and I have plenty of male friends. I'm perfectly capable of hanging out with them and not ripping my clothes off. I think the idea that men and women can't be friends shouldn't last past kindergarten. The fact that it often does says something about our society (patriarchy, rape culture, heteronormativity, ridiculous gender roles).


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## SharpestNiFe

IME, it goes down like this:

No.

You can be 'just friends' if it's a case of only seeing/talking/hanging out with each other once in a while.

Once you see each other naked with sexual intent, then nope, you can no longer be traditional 'friends.' Ever.

Try to be the exception. It just doesn't work.

It's why you should lose contact with exes. Complete contact. Unless, of course, children and other barriers are involved that don't allow you to do that.

This is the chain of the whole romantic relationship thing. In this order.

Attraction - Sex - Relationship - Friendship - Deep Friendship - Comfort - Companionship/Life Partner

Each '-' is = "getting to know each other better."


----------



## chimeric

DarkestNiTe said:


> IME, it goes down like this:
> 
> No.
> 
> You can be 'just friends' if it's a case of only seeing/talking/hanging out with each other once in a while.
> 
> Once you see each other naked with sexual intent, then nope, you can no longer be traditional 'friends.' Ever.



Um. What if you see each other frequently but you're always wearing clothes and no sex ever happens?

The friendship life cycle is:

Friendship -> Deep friendship


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## Igloos

I'm actually going to argue that anybody who wants to assert that men and women can't just be friends needs to explain how this works for people who aren't heterosexual. Especially in the case of bisexuals or pansexuals-- should they not be allowed to have friends at all?


----------



## SharpestNiFe

chimeric said:


> Um. What if you see each other frequently but you're always wearing clothes and no sex ever happens?
> 
> The friendship life cycle is:
> 
> Friendship -> Deep friendship


I strongly disagree. Someone is going to have feelings, even if they dont talk about them.

I'll find that study and post it.


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## SharpestNiFe

Igloos said:


> I'm actually going to argue that anybody who wants to assert that men and women can't just be friends needs to explain how this works for people who aren't heterosexual. Especially in the case of bisexuals or pansexuals-- should they not be allowed to have friends at all?


I think you raise a far enough point, but I think this is understood that both parties straight, all things being equal.

Anyway, I think it's very possible that a gay man meets a woman that he has romantic feelings for, and a straight man to meet a man he has romantic feelings for. Homosexuality is a spectrum, not Boolean. A very small population is polarized to "completely straight" or "completely gay."


----------



## Igloos

DarkestNiTe said:


> I think you raise a far enough point, but I think this is understood that both parties straight, all things being equal.
> 
> Anyway, I think it's very possible that a gay man meets a woman that he has romantic feelings for, and a straight man to meet a man he has romantic feelings for. Homosexuality is a spectrum, not Boolean. A very small population is polarized to "completely straight" or "completely gay."


I realize it's assumed that both parties are straight, which is problematic in itself. nonetheless, most gay men I know, including myself, have more male friends than female. Most lesbians I know have female friends. It seems like this would be the same situation as a straight male having female friends. If I am attracted to men and yet perfectly capable of just being friends with them, the same should be true of straight men with respect to women.

If sexuality is a spectrum then that only proves my point further. Most people would fall somewhere in the middle, meaning they are incapable of friendships with any gender.


----------



## SharpestNiFe

Igloos said:


> I realize it's assumed that both parties are straight, which is problematic in itself. nonetheless, most gay men I know, including myself, have more male friends than female. Most lesbians I know have female friends. It seems like this would be the same situation as a straight male having female friends. If I am attracted to men and yet perfectly capable of just being friends with them, the same should be true of straight men with respect to women.
> 
> If sexuality is a spectrum then that only proves my point further. Most people would fall somewhere in the middle, meaning they are incapable of friendships with any gender.


I really do understand where you are coming from, but where you are coming from, you can pick every thread apart on this subforum and say "that doesn't apply to bisexuals or pansexuals, so we shouldn't consider it."

It's just a matter of being too philosophical. Of course orientation ALWAYS plays a role.

For some reason, I can't date black women. I love black women, I have a lot of black female friends, but I'm just not interested in dating a black woman. Just not my taste. So have I found an exception to my own rule?


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## nevermore

Igloos said:


> I'm actually going to argue that anybody who wants to assert that men and women can't just be friends needs to explain how this works for people who aren't heterosexual. Especially in the case of bisexuals or pansexuals-- should they not be allowed to have friends at all?


I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I once debated someone on youtube (first mistake there lol) who actually argued bisexuals could not have any friends unless they considered them physically repulsive.

I will also repeat what I said earlier - the feelings only exist if you have a very small number of opposite sex friends. When you have more the desire goes away.

(I should mention I am actually attracted to both sexes but I have a pretty low sex drive so I'm not the best person to comment...I find the taboo on cheating is a great way to control desires though...)


----------



## Igloos

DarkestNiTe said:


> I really do understand where you are coming from, but where you are coming from, you can pick every thread apart on this subforum and say "that doesn't apply to bisexuals or pansexuals, so we shouldn't consider it."
> 
> It's just a matter of being too philosophical. Of course orientation ALWAYS plays a role.
> 
> For some reason, I can't date black women. I love black women, I have a lot of black female friends, but I'm just not interested in dating a black woman. Just not my taste. So have I found an exception to my own rule?


I don't think I'm being "too philosophical", whatever that means. This is a philosophical issue, anyway. 

If this rule can be asserted in the face of queer exceptions, then that implies queer relationships operate differently, and I'm not sure what exactly that would mean. What does it mean that orientation always plays a role?

furthermore, I think the only reason this is an issue is that heterosexuality is understood to be more natural than homosexuality. Also, if you read even a few pages of this thread (I've read two), you see how firmly rooted in patriarchy this idea really is. Notice it's mostly men arguing that they can't be just friends, and it's almost always because the man will desire more. One person even had the audacity to suggest hat men can only be friends with ugly women. The desire of the woman is rarely taken into a consideration, because she's perceived as little more than an object of/for men's desires.


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## Akbar2k7

Well if the woman is hot and the man is without his own source of pussy. HELL FUCKING NO. I keep away from hot girls unless I know I might bang them at some point the risk of wanting what is unattainable is too great. Women who I am not attracted to sure i can be a friend. Im 19 Hormones are hard to control last thing I need is a cock tease who will playfully flirt with me with no intention of putting out, unless I have a girl then this playful flirting aint so bad beacuse I can take it.


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## Carry Cola

Uhhh depends on the man and the woman. Women tend to underrestimate the sex drive of men too a greater degree than men overrestimate it though, so I guess that while men and women can certainly be friends (although not all of them can..) fewer than women think can pull it off; however, this is, of course, speaking in very general terms.


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## Thoradin

The short answer.....no. The long answer....it depends.


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## error

Why does this always come up when I meet a woman who I get along great with but have absolutely no chemistry with.

In some cases you can ONLY be friends with a woman. She'll be cute, funny, clever, smart and you'll share interests and common traits. But there will be no spark and kissing her feels like you're kissing your sister... or just kind of awkward.

So yes, sometimes friendship is the only choice.


----------



## MrDodgeDodger

There's 7 billion people in the world, I'm sure there is at least one man and one woman out there that are just friends. My best friend is a women and (I don't think) either one of us sees the other as anything more but, I honestly can't say that it is an impossibility that things could never change.


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## Kysinor

Of course it is possible. At least for me (I don't know about the other person... might have feelings for me... but that's okay sometimes I guess).


----------



## nevermore

Carry Cola said:


> Uhhh depends on the man and the woman. Women tend to underrestimate the sex drive of men too a greater degree than men overrestimate it though, so I guess that while men and women can certainly be friends (although not all of them can..) fewer than women think can pull it off; however, this is, of course, speaking in very general terms.


I'm pretty sure I've said something along these lines before, but does finding someone sexually attractive really mean you want to be their romantic partner?

I personally believe unreciprocated romantic feelings pose more of a challenge than a desire to have sex because they interfere with the kind of connection one makes with a friend. At least if the feelings don't fade with time (to be fair they sometimes do).

The sexual feelings can be sublimated because they are simpler. But watching someone you care for romantically show no interest in you and (worse) head off with someone else is distressing or at least saddening, and can ruin friendships for many. You're supposed to be enjoying the relationship you do have with your would-be partner, but you can't because it isn't all you want it to be, and soon that leads to feelings of bitterness and sleightedness that make it harder for you to enjoy the person's company.

I do think men and women can be friends (most of my friends are women just because I have more in common with them); no one feels romantic attachments to everyone or even most people of their preferred sex(es), but this is an important issue that should be taken into account before one makes the decision.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution

Yes, of course they can. 

Many men are friends and best friends with women and nothing ever happens past that. My boyfriend's best friend is a woman and he's never done anything with her, he looks at her as if she was his sister.


----------



## Eudaimonia

DB Cooper said:


> If a man thinks with the higher of his two heads, it is entirely possible. This may have more to do with maturity level, however, then gender.


Damn straight!


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## Eudaimonia

Yes, I have a few guy friends and we've hung out for years. If they had a problem with it, they would have disappeared by now.


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## C3bBb

Yes, but both need to have the maturity level and self-control to be able to handle keeping it where it is. Sometimes setting boundaries is also important, as the tendency might be for one to become more invested than the other which may lead to issues further down the line.


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## Harpyja

I have mostly guyfriends irl. Much has to do with my kind of hobbies, as I dance a lot and do crafty things. At some point the "could you be my mate"-question of course comes up if you share much time together, but so far they all stayed friends when I said that I wanted them as friends only ;-) So it is possible.


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## C3bBb

Harpyja said:


> I have mostly guyfriends irl. Much has to do with my kind of hobbies, as I dance a lot and do crafty things.


You hang around some interesting guys.


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## Harpyja

Senshu_Ben_Gone said:


> You hang around some interesting guys.


Yeah, rather. Maybe I should add, that they are mostly older then I am, but I tend to be friends mostly with people more advanced then my age. Im an "old soul", hahah. One is a Flamenco dancer, who is also a very crafty guy with lots of projects going at the same time, and hes much into books as I am. Another is a collegue from work, with which I share fun in old mechanic machines (i have several old sewing machines), who is very crafty too and I can talk with him about everything. Others are mostly my dance partners from tango. I like to hang around men. No need to walk on eggshells there


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## Volant

Sure they can. One friend of mine is a guy two years younger than me, and he's like my little brother.


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## XO Skeleton

I think the problem with men and women being friends comes from either 1 or 2 things.
1.) The man or woman initially had ulterior motives for engaging in friendship. Ie either person is in a relationship and keeps the other as a friend for a backup option or secretly wanted to form an intimate relationship.

2.) They started out as friends but the other began developing feelings for the other person.

Sent from my SCH-R720 using Tapatalk 2


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## webnek

Two sexually compatible people can always be close friends. However, very rare is a close friendship in a similar scenario where one (or both) has entertained the possibility of moving out of the friend zone. How that affects the health of the friendship depends on how strong any unresolved desire remains, and how deeply the friendship is treasured.

I don't have close female friends. When I've tried, invariably the female either overtly or subtly betrays an internal desire to, sooner or later, move out of the friend zone. Or at least pursue a semi flirtatious kind of banter. My reaction is always to prevent that sort of friendship from continuing because in my opinion sexual or intimate innuendo is never appropriate in a true platonic friendship between two sexually compatible friends. It means that at least one person in that dynamic is not getting what they want from the relationship, and may only be putting effort into the friendship to improve their chances at moving someday out of the friend zone.

Almost always, in my experience, when someone has a lot of opposite sex friends, those friends are either exes, or someone who wanted more but had to settle for the friend zone. Exceptions include niche enthusiast communities where the community is dominated by one gender. Interestingly, you'll rarely see all those "orbiters" hanging out with their shared opposite sex friend at the same time. They curiously resemble dates lacking intimacy.

Just some thoughts.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Quinault NDN

sean.pecor said:


> Two sexually compatible people can always be close friends. However, very rare is a close friendship in a similar scenario where one (or both) has entertained the possibility of moving out of the friend zone. How that affects the health of the friendship depends on how strong any unresolved desire remains, and how deeply the friendship is treasured.


I agree with this sentiment. I also think that attraction between friends in a non-sexual relationship waxes and wanes. I also think that it is possible to be incredibly intimate with someone on an emotional level and that can be confused for a sexual attraction. Sometimes we can mistake a healthy friendship for something that it is not...a sexually compatible relationship versus the friendship it is. 

Maybe I'm just unrealistic at heart but I think that when you feel that spark of something with someone, you don't confuse it for friendship.


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## webnek

Sexually compatible close friendships based on a deep emotional connection is never not a danger zone in my opinion. If neither are involved in a relationship the problems are less obvious. But in my observation there is always an emotional need being catered to by one or by both that goes beyond just friendship. Often I've observed that one of them has zero interest in moving beyond friends, while the other is keeping that option on the table but never expressing it directly. And in those circumstances the one with no interest still enjoys it when the other validates them with a compliment ("wow, you're rocking those jeans lady!" or "don't feel bad about her breaking up with you, you deserve more than a girl who you can never depend on."). And my heart breaks for the one that wants more but will never get it.

The waxing and waning thing is always the thing that reinforces to me my skepticism when a friend tries to tell me that their opposite sex friendship is totally platonic. Particularly when nearly every such friendship was established when one or the other approached the other with an intent not at all platonic. Messier still is the friend who is an ex. A friend of mine had that "friendship" but he got absolutely hammered with the woman and they ended up having sex. Then he met his future wife who unsurprisingly had major issues with the "friend" not because of the blurred line but because he would lean on his friend for emotional support. 

I realize I'm on the far end of the spectrum in that I don't have close opposite sex friends because I find investing in an emotional connection with a woman that is not my partner is undeniably playing with fire. I imagine myself having coffee with such a woman and watching them get up and for a split second finding something about them physically attractive. To me, I would experience the hurt that my partner would feel if she were aware of my thoughts and it hurts me just as deeply. Conversely, if my partner was guarded with me but had a guy friend she shared everything with, then I couldn't help but think I'm fulfilling only two points of the triangle of love. And two out of three hasn't ever been good enough for me.

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## FallingSlowly

sean.pecor said:


> Sexually compatible close friendships based on a deep emotional connection is never not a danger zone in my opinion. *If neither are involved in a relationship the problems are less obvious*.* But in my observation there is always an emotional need being catered to by one or by both that goes beyond just friendship. Often I've observed that one of them has zero interest in moving beyond friends, while the other is keeping that option on the table but never expressing it directly*. And in those circumstances the one with no interest still enjoys it when the other validates them with a compliment ("wow, you're rocking those jeans lady!" or "don't feel bad about her breaking up with you, you deserve more than a girl who you can never depend on."). And my heart breaks for the one that wants more but will never get it.


If this is the case, it's indeed a problem, but to assume it's always the case would of course be a gross generalisation. I have quite a few male friends, and I can honestly say that I have no problems whatsoever to separate emotional and intellectual attraction from sexual attraction. I can vouch for my own feelings. I cannot vouch for the feelings of the other party, but what I _can_ do is remove myself from that situation if I get the impression the man is more invested/sends out certain vibes. That's where maturity comes in - you simply don't encourage or tolerate behaviour that blurs the lines. If one uses this as a vehicle to beef up one's self-esteem, that's a problem indeed.



> The waxing and waning thing is always the thing that reinforces to me my skepticism when a friend tries to tell me that their opposite sex friendship is totally platonic. Particularly when nearly every such friendship was established when one or the other approached the other with an intent not at all platonic. Messier still is the friend who is an ex. A friend of mine had that "friendship" but he got absolutely hammered with the woman and they ended up having sex. Then he met his future wife who unsurprisingly had major issues with the "friend" not because of the blurred line but because he would lean on his friend for emotional support.


I could understand every new partner who has a problem with this.
I am generally against tarring all platonic friendships, even with exes, with the same brush however. I've been friends with an ex for two decades now (I can truthfully say he's my best friend). He has been married for a decade, has a little daughter, and I've been with my partner for nearly as long. Before this, we had other relationships, and also periods when we were both single at the same time. So if there'd been any drive to rekindle anything, we would have. But we didn't, simply because we don't feel about each other that way. It sometimes seems hard for people to grasp this, and one or two have been incredibly judgmental (interestingly always men who I'd say have a problem to keep it in their pants ). 
Our partners know we had a brief relationship, and they have no problems with it, simply because there is no reason to. The four of us are friends actually. It's simply a non-issue (the same is the case with one of my partner's exes he's still friends with). I guess it's really a case-by-case decision, and it wouldn't do people justice to generalise.



> I realize I'm on the far end of the spectrum in that I don't have close opposite sex friends because I find investing in an emotional connection with a woman that is not my partner is undeniably playing with fire. I imagine myself having coffee with such a woman and watching them get up and for a split second finding something about them physically attractive. To me, I would experience the hurt that my partner would feel if she were aware of my thoughts and it hurts me just as deeply. *Conversely, if my partner was guarded with me but had a guy friend she shared everything with, then I couldn't help but think I'm fulfilling only two points of the triangle of love. And two out of three hasn't ever been good enough for me.*


I understand what you're saying. Physical attraction however is a fact of life. I see people (men and women alike) left, right and centre I find physically attractive, but that doesn't make me want to have a relationship with them. I personally see it this way: My relationship to my partner is extremely deep and stable, that's why there's no scope for someone to break in from the outside. We both aren't overly jealous types, probably because there are no insecurities attached to our relationship. I don't perceive finding other people attractive as a betrayal of trust, it's a pretty normal human reaction. Acting on that attraction, no matter how subtle, would be a whole different ballgame however. I know I can trust him, and he knows he can trust me. That's it.

The bolded bit, I would deem a general problem in _any_ relationship, no matter if there's a sexually compatible friendship involved or not. If one's partner is guarded, or emotionally unavailable, the relationship isn't built on solid foundations to start with, and _that's_ what puts it at risk. I would personally say such a relationship is even at risk without sexually compatible close friends, whilst a stable relationship isn't. It's really that simple from my point of view.


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## .17485

This song proves it about a guy and woman being best friends lol


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## Up and Away

If there is potential attraction, then that is a topic of conversation, that if suppressed can create tension.

Also, emotional intimacy might always want a bit more from the person, as it is our natural inclination to grow.

Eventually, the intimacy might start crossing boundaries, and then create tension.

That is two types of tension then that are going up and down in the "friendship."

For example, friend a starts wanting more from friend b and friend b starts ignoring friend a and friend a starts questioning their worth and becomes insecure and starts trying to force the issue on friend b etc.. etc...

there is always the thought of, "what if"

yes that thought doesnt always occur, but "friendship" progresses, and therefore eventually secrets must come out for a friendship to continue

hypothetically at least. a friendship could last 100 years, 10 years, or 1 minute depending on the tension and whether the "what ifs" accrue or not.

a busy person will likely not spend much time thinking about it unless they are lonely


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## 7dogguy

you know its pretty much impossible at least for me and its not even a sexual thing. When i don't have like feelings for a girl, I'll like try to be friends and try to talk to them but I just like get bored. he reason being, the person usually has nothing in common with me or I am too into the girl I actually like at the time to make her anymore than an acquaintance. %The only exception I think of would be if we both had a common interest that we were both really passionate about. That could also bring you really close to person so yeah this is tough one for me XD


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## Father of Dragons

I think it is completely and utterly possible. I honestly don't understand how people can think that it is not. It seems to me that people who even entertain the thought that it isn't possible must not have had any siblings of the opposite sex, or at least have not been close to them if they had.

I have 3 sisters, and a myriad of female cousins... making friends with girls is like second nature to me. When I meet a girl that I get along with, I generally see them as a friend first and foremost. If anything more develops, it is from that baseline. And honestly, there are many girls who I recognize as being physically attractive, appealing and maybe even a good match who I still am not attracted to romantically. If there is no chemistry, they are just a person... a beautiful person, but a person nonetheless.

There are exceptions, in that the few girls with whom I've had insane chemistry with I could not comfortably be friends with. With those girls I found it almost painful to be around them when I knew I could not have them. There is a great song I like, which sums of that kind of scenario: "_We could never be friends... I'll love you until the end._"


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## Ravenetta

I used to internalize what everyone said about it not being possible until I became friends with an extremely level headed extroverted friend. She said how life is too short and meaningful connections are too important. She said if it starts to feel like a line is crossed, then you just talk about it and clear it up. It was so direct, honest, and respectful of important connections that it was a real eye opener for me. Since then I have had a couple of male friends that felt meaningful to me. There are other men in my profession that I would like to be friends with, but I do feel some concern about those men rejecting me because I'm not available, or even worse judging me as someone trying to use them or cross boundaries and hurt people.

I could be friends with someone I had sexual attraction towards, and even someone I could be involved with if I were available. I think we do have some control over our choices as human beings. The way I approach it is that if I meet someone I feel compatible with (even someone I could be compatible with on every level), I would like to think we could at least be friends.


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## Damagedfinger

No, their will always be sexual attraction at least in one of them. Whether it's high or not doesn't matter.


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## napkineater

One of my bestest friends is a gay man and I'm a lesbian. 

We flirt with each and have kissed just because we were joking. Nothing is at stake, even if, GOD FORBID EW, we were to have sex. People always mistake us for a couple. But obviously we're just friends and I never have to worry about that changing. 

This, I think, is the ultimate example of a man and woman being friends haha.


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## Ravenetta

sean.pecor said:


> Sexually compatible close friendships based on a deep emotional connection is never not a danger zone in my opinion. If neither are involved in a relationship the problems are less obvious. But in my observation there is always an emotional need being catered to by one or by both that goes beyond just friendship. Often I've observed that one of them has zero interest in moving beyond friends, while the other is keeping that option on the table but never expressing it directly. And in those circumstances the one with no interest still enjoys it when the other validates them with a compliment ("wow, you're rocking those jeans lady!" or "don't feel bad about her breaking up with you, you deserve more than a girl who you can never depend on."). And my heart breaks for the one that wants more but will never get it.
> 
> The waxing and waning thing is always the thing that reinforces to me my skepticism when a friend tries to tell me that their opposite sex friendship is totally platonic. Particularly when nearly every such friendship was established when one or the other approached the other with an intent not at all platonic. Messier still is the friend who is an ex. A friend of mine had that "friendship" but he got absolutely hammered with the woman and they ended up having sex. Then he met his future wife who unsurprisingly had major issues with the "friend" not because of the blurred line but because he would lean on his friend for emotional support.
> 
> I realize I'm on the far end of the spectrum in that I don't have close opposite sex friends because I find investing in an emotional connection with a woman that is not my partner is undeniably playing with fire. I imagine myself having coffee with such a woman and watching them get up and for a split second finding something about them physically attractive. To me, I would experience the hurt that my partner would feel if she were aware of my thoughts and it hurts me just as deeply. Conversely, if my partner was guarded with me but had a guy friend she shared everything with, then I couldn't help but think I'm fulfilling only two points of the triangle of love. And two out of three hasn't ever been good enough for me.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


I can see some potentially slimy aspects to what you describe, but perhaps the difference has to do with how it is structured. What about people who are bi? I'm probably 25% gay, so when I've been lonely in relationships or single I've felt some level of attraction to ALL of my friends. I've also been more controlled in my sexual choices than just about anyone on planet earth, so attraction has not tended to translate into indiscretion for me. I did go through a divorce five years ago and found myself completely friendless except for my ex, a group of online friends, my new partner, and my therapist. I vowed to never let that happen again and so I have invested in every friendship, regardless of gender and attraction. I actually want my partner to have female friends through work as well as male friends because life is fragile and if I were to die or something I wouldn't want him to have to start from absolute zero to establish connections that could result in a new partner. I want him to be safe and surrounded by friends. I need the same for myself.

I think these are some aspects to be considered that indicate a problem and should be avoided.
1. Getting intoxicated with someone with whom there is possibly physical attraction.
2. Hanging out near sofas, beds, and private places that make sex possible.
3. Complaining about partners as a way to establish intimacy.
4. Using flirtatious and sexual talk to establish intimacy.
5. Emotionally dependent talk that places the friend in an irreplaceable position.

The following can make friendships with anyone more possible:
1. Sharing projects that are work related whether this be research, creative projects, etc.
2. Sharing feelings with some type of autonomy or staying focused on emotional reactions to work environments.

What do people think about this?


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## webnek

Fia, you raise good points, and from an idealistic perspective I agree with you. I do think opposite sex / sexually compatible platonic friendships are possible. However, the proactive maintenance of boundaries required will nearly always limit how close that friendship can develop. Sometimes those boundaries are self directed, other times those boundaries are introduced when you or your friend fall in love with someone who is uncomfortable with a particular dynamic of the friendship. With such complex nuances, the consequences of failure may even be undetectable. Example: Jack and Jill are best friends, woman meets Mike and falls in love, Jack tells Jill he's happy she's happy, but Jack hides heartbreak from Jill. Jill posts Facebook couple photos with Mike, and selfies, and pictures of Jill with her friends. Jack "Likes" photos Jill shares, except never any photo that includes Mike. Jill doesn't notice this, but Mike does. Mike tells Jill that Jack might have some unresolved feelings. Jill tells Mike that he's misread Jacks motivations. Mike drops it. Jill is filing old poems away, finds one she wrote to Jack after they broke up in high school with the line "you'll always have this hold on my heart", and emails it to Jack with the caption "omg look what I found!" Jill brings this up to Mike. Mike reads poem. Mike tells Jill that if Jack might have unresolved feelings, then this didn't help Jack move beyond them. Jill gets mad at Mike, says it's just an old silly poem Jack never got to read. Mike drops it. One of Mikes female friends on Facebook posts something inappropriate on his wall. Jill notices it first, brings it up to Mike. Mike deletes post, unfriends the girl. Jack posts song on Jill's wall, lyrics include "where words are not, feelings remain". Mike brings it up to Jill. Jill defends Jack, says there is no hidden message. Jill says, none of her old boyfriends were ever comfortable with her friendship with Jack. Mike drops the subject, and one week later, Mike drops Jill too. 

With so much complexity in guiding such a friendship through the years, it's just never been worth the effort for me.

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## webnek

I should also like to clarify my own opinion. I am restricting my observations to close friendships. The friends you can share anything with. 

Less emotionally intimate friendships such as colleagues, those who share a similar hobby, etc, those sorts of opposite sex friendships aren't immediately a cause for concern in my life. 

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## mighty_mumu

i feel more and more like a weirdo reading this thread.
currently i live with my bestie, he's a guy; and recently we add another guy into our little circle of friendship and we get along fine. lots of sleepover, movies, etc. them boys do their stuff and im the big sis/mom; and they listen when i rant about my (hopefully,soon to be) boyfriend and vice versa [INTP and his girl, ENTP is currently idle since his last break up; still feels 'blah' abt dating he said]. 

we share things, steal each other's food , beer and bed (mostly, the ENTP does this). it's like kindergarten. it's fun because they dont treat me like a girl but rather an equal (in guy-like jerkiness). i think this is the best friendship i've ever had.

i cannot formulate this into a structured theory but one simple line : 'yes, guy(s) - girl(s) can actually be JUST friends'.


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## DreamingSoul

Depend on the person. If both parties are mature, then I would say yes. Also, I believe communication plays a big role and finding out what their intentions are. If a guy want to be in my life, I would try to find out what does he want from me. If he wants to just be friends, great however if not then I move along. I rather cut ties then have someone be in my life who are interested in me and I am not. It's just not fair to tease them like that.


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## paige1136

Zegaray said:


> I was having a discussion about women with male friends which caused a stir on another forum I frequent. A lot of women said that they wouldn't trust another women that has male friends and little female friends.
> 
> Men said the same thing and that the men didn't want to be "just friends" if there isn't anything else to it (sexual, romantic relationship). A few guys said that it would feel like the women is using them instead of moving things to a more serious and intimate relationship. Some women said that they have a few close male friends, *but the male posters replied that they are probably only trying to see if they can get lucky or try to date them.*
> 
> What are your thoughts on this?


The problem with the bolded assertion is there's no way to "prove" or "disprove" he's hoping to get lucky. 

Because I've always heard this about men, I've never assumed a male genuinely wanted to be just friends (unless he's gay). My anecdotal experience seems to somewhat verify this. I can't think of one, purely platonic male friendship I've had that was more than an "acquaintance" level of friendship. At some point "more than friends" has come into the picture. 

Male/female "friendships" are even more interesting if you've dated in the past. I have one male "friend" I dated for several months, but didn't sleep with (because I wasn't hearing anything about having romantic intentions) and I was surprised he put up with it so long. Nothing happened from this, but we're still "friends" and I often find myself wondering if he is the first male who genuinely views me as a friend.


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## Ephemerald

Yeah, they can be friends. I've been friends with my ex for... a long damn time? It helped that she got married. I'm not sure she was as resilient the finality as I. Actually, I have a lot of female friends who are simply friends (mostly married), and then female friends whom I've friend-zoned so hard they could never appear attractive to me, like younger women (generally 5-10 years younger), who fill in what seems like a "little sister" role. I suppose this is because I like cougars--the opposing age range. (ha ha)

Give me a confident, brilliant woman any day and I'll walk behind her in a haze, right off a cliff.


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## Mr. Meepers

fia said:


> I think these are some aspects to be considered that indicate a problem and should be avoided.
> 1. Getting intoxicated with someone with whom there is possibly physical attraction.
> 2. Hanging out near sofas, beds, and private places that make sex possible.
> 3. Complaining about partners as a way to establish intimacy.
> 4. Using flirtatious and sexual talk to establish intimacy.
> 5. Emotionally dependent talk that places the friend in an irreplaceable position.
> 
> The following can make friendships with anyone more possible:
> 1. Sharing projects that are work related whether this be research, creative projects, etc.
> 2. Sharing feelings with some type of autonomy or staying focused on emotional reactions to work environments.
> 
> What do people think about this?


I think these are pretty good guidelines.
1) I can't really say much for #1 as I don't drink enough lol, but I suppose it would depend on whether or not one makes bad decisions when they are drunk. For instance, I, at most, have been a little buzzed, but I stay fairly level headed, except this one time where I was on the fence about buying these games and I bought like 8 computer video games for like $40 and after I bought it I realized that I had spent $50 on 15-16 games (all on a big sale) in the past month after not buying any for a few years and then immediately felt bad for spending so much money on entertainment lol :tongue: (Warning: Don't give me alcohol, It may cause me to shop :tongue 

2) Unless you are both very touchy-feely and attracted to each other (or very young/immature), I don't think this should be a problem. I mean I would hope people had more self control than that, although I suppose intimate places would make it easier for emotional affairs to happen and I would think that would be the thing to worry about.

3) Yeah this is a good one. I mean, I think it is okay to complain about partners, but mix in some actual good things that is going on in your relationship. Not to mention, if someone is attracted to you, especially if it is an obsession, then they may not be the best person to tell that you are unhappy in your relationship (because even if they can settle with you being happy with someone else, if you let them know why your S.O. isn't up to par, they may feel that they can do better and that they can make you happy .... Just to be clear, no one can make anyone happy, I learned that the hard way lol).
When I was 18-19, I was young and very naive. There was this girl/woman (she was 18-19 as well) who I thought I could not be happy without (New Rule 6: Realize that only you can make you happy and try not to obsess over someone you are attracted to ... well I suppose that relates to your 5th rule/point lol). Well all she did was complain about who unhappy she was in her relationship and how he did not seem to care enough about her. She was leaning on me, knowing that I had a huge crush on her and that made the problem so much worst (because I could not even be happy that she was happy). And, to make matters worse, the few compliments she made were things and loving bf that even remotely cares about her would do, if they were able too, (such as wake up early and walk with her when something was upsetting her, ...). Point is, when it comes to relationship problems, try not lean too much on someone that has a huge crush on you (because they still need to learn that they don't need you to be happy and they don't need false hope that you will leave your S.O. and that they will make you happy).

4)I think this is good, but I would say genuine flirtation. I mean I once had a friend (and there was an on and off attraction between us) and we would sometimes joke about our butts and pretend flirt. I did the same things with my male friends (For reference, I am not attracted to any of my male friends in a romantic or sexual way). Although, with my male friends I did not mind going further (such as booty spanks .... actually this one guy I was in a fake relationship with, we would hit on each other all the time and he like to smack my butt and I would let him. He hurt hurt hand a few times, that is what he gets for trying to show off lol ... He also liked to show me to his friends and punch me in the arm. It did not hurt, but, for some reason, it tickled me so much that I would fall to the ground in laughter. I probably should have jokingly claimed abuse (I think I gave him permission to lightly punch me in the arm before I knew I was ticklish like that, I can't remember), but I was too ticklish).
Anyway, I would call that friendly, meaningless/superficial flirting and if everyone knows it is meaningless, then I think it can be in a healthy friendship without causing trouble.
On the other hand, going back to the woman I talked about earlier, when I was young and stupid, I was listening to her put down her looks and call herself ugly and I just told her that she was more beautiful than all the stars in the sky and more beautiful than anything in the universe, well I don't remember my exact words, but I felt as if I could not put into words how beautiful she was. Now, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with thinking your friends (no matter what gender they are) are beautiful and most of us love our friends <3, but I think I went overboard there as I was saying that no one can compare to her beauty and that is really more for someone in a relationship to say and I said it meaning every word of it and then some. I think that flirting is destructive to a friendship.

5) Yup. I would also add that if you feel as though you have a meaningful crush on a friend, that you should let them know. I mean be open and honest about it. For instance that other female friend I talked about, well I was never attracted to her looks persay, but we were really close friends and after I had broken up with my girlfriend, I was feeling very vulnerable and was crushing on her a bit. I knew I did not need to be with her to be happy, so that stopped me from obsessing about her or at least not too much, but I was honest with her about my attraction to her. Anyway we were at a party one time and people just kept diving her drinks (she was pretty drunk and she was not asking for the drinks) and I took the drink from her and told her I would finish it for her, because she was very drunk, took a big sip and I could not stand the taste of it so I gave it right back to her lol XD Anyway, throughout the night, she was getting a little too handsy with me (I believe she had a friend with benefits at the time that she wanted something more from, but the guy was fawning over someone else. I told her that I thought it was a bad idea and she probably should not be Fwb with him since she had feelings with him, but I also respected her feelings and her decision, so I would not want to do anything to undermine that) and maybe a bit too physically flirtatious and I felt uncomfortable. Anyway, I helped her get to her place safely (and kept her little brother company lol (I may have helped him with learning calculus then, I don't remember) ... well first we got pizza lol and I think her brother was mad at her for being drunk or flirtatious when she has someone, or for staying to long at the party I can't remember) and eventually I went back to my place and the next time I saw her, she was sober, I was able to let her know that I was uncomfortable with what had happened because of my feelings for her. Anyway, we were able to create a boundary and still maintain our friendship without anything "getting weird".

I would probably also add that when there is cheating, there is probably something wrong going on in the relationship (the cheater may be looking for a way out, they may no longer have respect and/or love for the person they are with, ...), so it may good to keep communication going with your partner, when you are in a relationship and try to maintain a healthy, satisfying relationship. What I mean is to help maintain friends being just friends, it may be a good idea to not let some problems fester until they become huge problems (of course, for things like abuse, one should probably get out of that relationship) and, instead, talk to your S.O. about what is bothering you.

^^ Those would probably be my guidelines to anyone who wants to be just friends with the opposite sex, but they don't know if they can or not (I suppose another thing is, attraction happens, whether after meeting someone or after knowing someone years down the road, attraction happens, but as long as one does not obsess about it, it doesn't really matter).


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## webnek

^ Truth

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