# ENFJ + Aspberger's



## Nobleheart (Jun 9, 2010)

Any theories on how that might manifest?


----------



## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

I could see a feeling dominance with intuition taking as outlet some kind of dreamy idealism or artistic inclination if we're to take simple examples, rather than offer itself to any people-oriented/social outlet (which would be the main things you'd _not_ expect of someone with Asperger's).


----------



## absyrd (Jun 1, 2013)

Really exotically


----------



## Dastan (Sep 28, 2011)

ENFJ seems to be the opposite of aspergers sydrome symptoms. "Aspergers opposite" *Williams-Beuren syndrom* came to my mind, which sounds a little bit ENFJ-ish. Akward topic.


----------



## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

There has been some discussions as in how different mbti types are prone (meaning prone, not doomed to or totally affected by) to different mental conditions. For the sake of fun, I'll bring it up again. No offence intended to everyone (find comfort that when I offend every type, it's like I offend no type at all :tongue 

*ESTJ*

Most prone to paranoias, most of which the fear that when they are incompetent, ESTJ will disappoint some authority, or they become shunned from some community or a circle of people. 

Example would be ESTJ being extremely bossy in the school's project team to other teammates, because of the fear that failing the project will lower their academical performance, which will lead to decreased academical prospects etc.

*ESTP*

Most prone to impulsive behaviour, like issues with containing anger or "thinking on their feet", which means doing something instinctively and paying absolutely no regard to the consequences (Ni as being the most inferior conscious function).

Example would be an ESTP man hooking up with a girl and ignoring the girl's warning that her ex-boyfriend is a battle-hardened navy seal.

*ESFJ*

Can't think of anything more specific, but as far as I have known this type, there's a big inclination towards being dishonest and not on touch with himself/herself. This manifests in taking so much responsibilities that they live under a constant stress of not being physically able to attend to them, and when they crack under that stress, people regard that ESFJ as being the spawn of devil or overly dramatic.

*ESFP*

Most prone to histronicism and exhibitionism, in a sense that they indulge in superficial pleasures and hedonism so much that they forget anything else.

Example would be an ESFP who spends a lot of money buying expensive chocolate and wine, or an ESFP girl who gets offended and frustrated, thinking that people hate her personally and for no good reason, when she is being told to not come to the class anymore with a mini skirt that looks like underpants, and a tank top that reveals from a mile away if she's wearing a bra or not.

*ENTJ*

Most prone to paranoias, in a sense that they are not up for the task, which causes them to become a workaholic, or to study and research themselves to death.

An example would be an ENTJ who has a personal goal to complete with high honours from a school, and for that, they keep studying and studying and studying, driving themselves nuts until they achieve the goal.

*ENTP*

Most prone to ADHD , in a sense that they have so much ideas and things to do in their mind that they can't pick and stick with one.

Example would be an ENTP who starts to look for a job and suddenly finds itself building kennels with attachable birdhouses, because it seems like a 18-carat business opportunity, forgetting that establishing a business depends on many factors that might overwhelm the enthusiasm of an ENTP once the reality steps into the game, like the fact that establishing a business in some places is all about the connections.

*ENFJ*

Most prone to magical thinking or delusion of grandeur, where ENFJ sees the infinite amount of potential in a group of people and convinces them to do the impossible, by taking only the ENFJ's word for it.

An example would be an ENFJ who starts a political resistance movement in a state under the control of a tyrannically opressive totalitarian regime, and failing to properly estimate the odds of the success of the movement, which might lead to imprisonment, whereas keeping the head a little bit lower would have allowed the movement to flourish few months later in a different political climate.


*ENFP*

Most prone to ADHD and anxieties, overanalysing the emotions of others and coming to false conclusion that an ENFP is constantly under the watch and in the thoughts of people, or being afraid that the whole world falls apart once ENFP is gone, because ENFP is the only one who wants to get things done and others are too schizoid to ever move a muscle for keeping the community together.

An example would be an ENFP schoolgirl who goes from classmate to classmate, talking about an idea to organize a classtrip for the sake of keeping the class spirit high, and when the classmates refuse it, the ENFP gets into a spin how all the class conspires against her and wants her to be gone, while they only refused because the location for that suggested classtrip is unreachable by cheap means of transport.

*ISTJ*

Most prone to conservatism and substance abuse, out of fear against a constantly progressing world that always seems to compete and take away everything that ISTJ truly admires and appreciates. 

An example would be an old ISTJ man who turns into alchoholism, because he can't stand the prospect of selling his childhood home where he's been living all his life, with all the memories it contains and places he used to be at.

*ISTP*

Most prone to sadistic behaviour, deriving pleasure from causing suffering to everyone who does not appreciate what he's/she's got, or wanting to see people reacting to pain, because it's funny or stimulating.

An example would be an ISTP classmate who steals your pencil and when you turn to ask it back, the ISTP acts extremely offended and angry, but bursts into laughter when you return into your place and throws the pencil back at you.

*ISFJ*

Most prone to compulsive behaviour, where anything that's not as it supposed to be starts to grind ISFJ's gears and causes ISFJ to feel physically ill.

An example would be an ISFJ mother who re-assembles your furniture weekly and cleans your room throughoutly more than once a week.

*ISFP*

Most prone to "stereotypical emo behaviour" (I don't know the correct term for this, sorry), making a tragedy out of everything, seeing the world in black and white, predicting and assuming disaster in everything.

An example would be an ISFP boy who sees his parents fighting, and as a result, he feels guilty all day, feeling that his presence makes his parents to fight more with each other, and the boy proceeds this by taking a hike and running away from home, believing that he is a burden to them.

*INTJ*

Most prone to aspbergers, meaning that INTJ begins to glorify the sanctity of competence, knowledge and intelligence, while considering any calls for help, display of feelings or counting on others as a sign of weakness.

An example would be an INTJ man who faces a couple of rejections after a long time of being single and as a result becoming openly misogynistic, because it's too selfish to think that these rejections have anything to do with an INTJ, meanwhile crying on the internet forums about not having a girlfriend, not realising that he's participating in a self-fulfilling prophecy.

*INTP*

Most prone to outward schizoidness, which leads to having second thoughts about matters that are pretty straightforward, and being able to rationalize almost everything in their head in very complicated manner leads them to become enigmatic for others.

An example would be a white male INTP who refuses to get a job, because the shop accross the street is run by an indian who "only hire their own kind", the car wash in the end of the street is "employing only the lowlives", and all the other places are owned by corporate institutions who are seeking to train mindless drones for an incoming future of capitalist hell, meanwhile his friend in the exact same position and right next door already got a job months ago.

*INFJ *

Most prone to narcissism, and "hipster douchebag" kind of behaviour, where the INFJ starts to passionately hate broad communities of people for no reason, other than "they listen to shitty music" or "they go to this shitty school that accepts all kinds of lowlives from four corners of our county"

An example would be an INFJ girl who works as a barista in starbucks and constantly conveys social experiments, like putting wrong amount of sugar in the drink of everyone who order the usual black coffee, because the usual black coffee is a sure sign that the person is nothing but a stupid sheep, too bland and boring to try out the coffees in the menu that INFJ personally enjoys.

*INFP*

Most prone to avoidant behaviour, shunning everyone that does not respond to a whole criteria that INFP expects from a friend or a lover. Having too idealistic and unrealistically high expectations for everyone and becoming frustrated and judgemental when people break this INFP's illusion by "being themselves".

An example would be an INFP girl who lives with her 40 cats all day long, while automatically rejecting every man who wants to date her for being a heartless Adolf Hitler, while the future husbands just can't stand the prospect of 40 cats contained in one apartment suite.


----------



## Nobleheart (Jun 9, 2010)

I would assume that Fe's need to assert values externally and concern for people would be interesting in a person with diminished empathy.

"I care about people. I have studied them in detail. I just can't seem to understand why they get upset when I <insert Aspie-ism here>."

I would also assume that such an individual would have sociopathic levels of charisma due to their sincere interest in people, but their detachment allowing them to avoid being swayed by subtle social cues and expectations.


----------



## Ecoas (Jul 28, 2013)

you do NOT know how asperger's works. the others are curable personality disorders, it's software. Asperger's is a disorder, it's hardware, it can not be cured. 


> while considering any calls for help, display of feelings or counting on others as a sign of weakness.


is NOT a symptom of Asperger's, although those with it may become prone to that.



> An example would be an INTJ man who faces a couple of rejections after a long time of being single and as a result becoming openly misogynistic, because it's too selfish to think that these rejections have anything to do with an INTJ, meanwhile crying on the internet forums about not having a girlfriend, not realising that he's participating in a self-fulfilling prophecy



-has to be some kind of joke, unless you take the facebook pages such as Autistic Humor and Brock Obama seriously. 

While Aspies are commonly INTJ, comparing avoidant behaviour to Asperger's is like comparing depression to Down Syndrome.

On the main point of this thread, I'm actually friends with an ESFJ(!) diagnosed with asperger's (which is now officially just high functioning autism), so any type is possible.

ENFJ + Aspergers would probably be like an ENFJ with a love of schedules, high honesty, focus on proper manners rather than fluid empathy, weird Sensory experiences, etc.


----------



## KraChZiMan (Mar 23, 2013)

Ecoas said:


> you do NOT know how asperger's works. the others are curable personality disorders, it's software. Asperger's is a disorder, it's hardware, it can not be cured.
> 
> is NOT a symptom of Asperger's, although those with it may become prone to that.
> 
> ...


I am sorry for drifting away at some parts of my story, not stating clearly what I meant to describe.

I was talking about harmful behavioral patterns that each type is most likely to be prone of. I'm no doctor and thus I am not the adequate source to describe any mental illness, but I'm pretty sure there is a greater deal of truth in that post of mine than falsehood, since these symptoms do relate to each type pretty often, based on my personal observations.

The first part you quoted where I compared aspie behaviour and bad behaviours INTJ's are prone to, trying to create links between two, was inspired by one of my old classmates, a girl who was really weird. I am pretty sure she was an aspie, as she was quiet, private and reserved to a point of looking like a robot, but very obnoxious and chatty when exposed to right friends (I know, sign of avoidant) but at the same time, she managed to be extremely unaware of any proper social behaviour, like one time when I was talking with one of the teachers, and she appeared out of nowhere, and told me "what are you doing? you shouldn't be here. Go away!". I hadn't given her any good reason to say that, and this was the very first thing she told when she walked by. When she was like that, I became sure she was an aspie, because it seemed so unnatural and unreal to expect from a mentally healthy person. If the combo of avoidant + aspie is possible, I would go with that with that girl.

That story was the reason why I mixed up the description of avoidant and aspergers.

ENFJ with aspergers would just be pretty damn rare case. As being an Fe-dom and an Asperger, that would be like sugar that doesn't taste sweet, or a bike without wheels.

I'd much rather that any Fe-dom would sooner master the skill to manipulate people, in any ways and directions, than ignoring other people's feeling entirely and stepping on their toes cold-heartedly.


----------



## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Well, I'm a Fe-dom who has been diagnosed with Asperger's. While I may be more adaptable socially than the typical Aspie, I wouldn't describe myself as "charismatic". I can still be pretty awkward, and since I get embarrassed easily I often end up acting even more awkward. 

So real-life interaction is still a pain.


----------



## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Nobleheart said:


> I would assume that Fe's need to assert values externally and concern for people would be interesting in a person with diminished empathy.
> 
> "I care about people. I have studied them in detail. I just can't seem to understand why they get upset when I <insert Aspie-ism here>."
> 
> I would also assume that such an individual would have *sociopathic levels of charisma* due to their sincere interest in people, but their detachment allowing them to avoid being swayed by subtle social cues and expectations.


Honestly, theorizing about this for fun is kind of whack. 

You don't see people do this with many other disorders, l'm not sure how people even go about it other to pick a character from television and try to alter them to fit each type.

lf it's someone you know, l would just consider the disorder and type separately.

Not customizing for an RPG here


----------



## Nobleheart (Jun 9, 2010)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> lf it's someone you know, l would just consider the disorder and type separately.


Except that someone might be me, and if so, these separate factors might be causing mistype. I'd assume an ENFJ Aspie would have very strong Ni and Ti considering that the Aspie model looks almost identical to the Ni patterns under neuroscan.


----------



## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

Nobleheart said:


> Except that someone might be me, and if so, these separate factors might be causing mistype. I'd assume an ENFJ Aspie would have very strong Ni and Ti considering that the Aspie model looks almost identical to the Ni patterns under neuroscan.


In what way does an Aspie brain look like an Ni user's?


----------



## Nobleheart (Jun 9, 2010)

PaladinX said:


> In what way does an Aspie brain look like an Ni user's?


Strong Fp1 coherence with the rest of the cerebral cortex (running the thought processes), but weak Fp2 interior regulation.


----------



## Cthulhu And Coffee (Mar 8, 2012)

I'm an INFJ, but my mom thought I had it and still probably thinks so. I straight up refused to go see a doctor about it, though. I feel she's just trying to compensate for the fact that she can't accept me and my differences as NORMAL.

She figured it was because I was slow when it came to taking notice of the physical word - I didn't memorize how her car looked or where she parked it, I could sometimes walk around outside unaware of my surroundings, I was athletically challenged, I can't read body language for shit (actually, I just don't know how to respond) ..basically that kind of thing. Also, she noticed how quiet I was around most everyone.


----------



## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

Nobleheart said:


> Strong Fp1 coherence with the rest of the cerebral cortex (running the thought processes), but weak Fp2 interior regulation.


Source?


----------



## MooseAndSquirrel (Apr 10, 2012)

OMG WTF BRO said:


> *Honestly, theorizing about this for fun is kind of whack*.
> 
> You don't see people do this with many other disorders, l'm not sure how people even go about it other to pick a character from television and try to alter them to fit each type.
> 
> ...


Totally agree, esp. the part in bold.

One of my longtime instructors at my music school (who's INFP) has Aspberger's. I also have an adult student (not 100% sure of his type but I wouldn't be surprised if he were INTP) with Aspberger's. While there are some commonalities in behavior there are also distinct differences re: type.


----------



## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

MooseAndSquirrel said:


> Totally agree, esp. the part in bold.
> 
> One of my longtime instructors at my music school (who's INFP) has Aspberger's. I also have an adult student (not 100% sure of his type but I wouldn't be surprised if he were INTP) with Aspberger's. While there are some commonalities in behavior there are also distinct differences re: type.


See post #12:



Nobleheart said:


> Except that someone might be me, and if so, these separate factors might be causing mistype. I'd assume an ENFJ Aspie would have very strong Ni and Ti considering that the Aspie model looks almost identical to the Ni patterns under neuroscan.




FYI folks, it is spelled Asperger's Syndrome. No B.


----------



## Nobleheart (Jun 9, 2010)

boughtmeawalkman said:


> I can't read body language for shit (actually, *I just don't know how to respond*)


This is accurate for most 'empaths', who interestingly tend to score close to 30 on the Autism Quotient, and almost unanimously score INFJ. They tend to litmus most of the autistic spectrum litmus questions _except_ the inability to read people. Interestingly enough, when I asked them (the people on the Empath forums) about it (as I posted links to the AQ test and the MBTI just to see if there was a pattern, and it was shockingly clear over the course of 50+ users), most of them had statements like "I can read people's emotions very clearly, but I often have no idea why they are having them or what it means, and have a lot of trouble socializing in ways that_ they _get." Meanwhile, I posted the AQ test on the INFJ forum, and most users (with the notable exception of the few who self identified as Empaths) scored average on it... so the control group proved either there is a connection between autism, INFJs, and empaths - or people who self identify as empaths see themselves as having autistic traits.

The latter might have more weight if not for the fact that new studies are showing that people on the Autistic spectrum don't suffer from a lack of empathy, but rather hyper-sensitivity to empathy which overwhelms them easily, and just like people who squint or cover their eyes in bright lights, ASD's seem to 'turn it off' as a defense mechanism. If this is true, then it would seem that INFJ Aspies might manifest that boost of sensitivity into being Empaths due to Fe's drive to see it, even if it is overwhelming to them - or perhaps Fe insulates them somehow. 



PaladinX said:


> Source?


Ni from the Nardi study, and Aspberger's from pretty much any source that has done neuro-scanning on Aspies. Ni doms are pretty far from 'neuro-typical'. With the preponderance of Aspies who self assess INTJ on the MBTI, this really baits the question as to whether there is a link between the autistic spectrum and Ni.

If that's the case, then it would also stand to reason that an Ni auxiliary Aspie would eventually (as in pretty quickly) develop strong Ni.



PaladinX said:


> FYI folks, it is spelled Asperger's Syndrome. No B.


Neither shows up on spell check, which leaves me unable to spell anything correctly without a red underline. I will spell the same word differently several times in the same page. Personally, I prefer to call it Aspizza.


----------



## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

Nobleheart said:


> Ni from the Nardi study, and Aspberger's from pretty much any source that has done neuro-scanning on Aspies. Ni doms are pretty far from 'neuro-typical'. With the preponderance of Aspies who self assess INTJ on the MBTI, this really baits the question as to whether there is a link between the autistic spectrum and Ni.
> 
> If that's the case, then it would also stand to reason that an Ni auxiliary Aspie would eventually (as in pretty quickly) develop strong Ni.


Well I'm not sure about any of that, but I definitely believe that Aspies can be of any type. I've noticed extraverts, introverts, sensors, inuitives, thinkers and feelers in my autism support group. I used to think I was an INFJ, I was typed here as an ISTP, but personally I believe that I am an ENxP type. People of that type seem very much like kindred spirits to me (at least ENFPs, I've only briefly met one ENTP before).





> Neither shows up on spell check, which leaves me unable to spell anything correctly without a red underline. I will spell the same word differently several times in the same page. Personally, I prefer to call it Aspizza.


No worries. I only pointed it out because of the psychological cognitive bias that ensued really stood out to me.


----------



## Ecoas (Jul 28, 2013)

Ok good, both INTJ's and Aspies would be prone to that type of dysfunction, but where avoidant behavior is the actual dysfunction, Aspergers is just prone to that. True. We just needed some clarification. 

Also, knowing an Fe-dom Aspise, I can tell you you do not see Fe immediately, so you have that more or less right.


----------



## Nobleheart (Jun 9, 2010)

PaladinX said:


> Well I'm not sure about any of that, but I definitely believe that Aspies can be of any type. I've noticed extraverts, introverts, sensors, inuitives, thinkers and feelers in my autism support group. I used to think I was an INFJ, I was typed here as an ISTP, but personally I believe that I am an ENxP type. People of that type seem very much like kindred spirits to me (at least ENFPs, I've only briefly met one ENTP before).


The neuro-pattern looks a lot like Ni, but Ni's pattern looks a lot like Ne too. Both have a lot of Fp1 and the Fp balance issue. They're both radically distinct from the other 6 functions. It's highly possible you're an N dom, and that you got pegged as an ISTP online due to your literal-ness seeming like S and T. 



Ecoas said:


> Also, knowing an Fe-dom Aspise, I can tell you you do not see Fe immediately, so you have that more or less right.


ESFJ or ENFJ? I'm interested to know more about this person, as I'm starting to consider that I might be some manner of ASD for several reasons - and if so then most of the things that don't line up could be explained by being an ENFJ (or INFJ).


----------



## Ecoas (Jul 28, 2013)

ESFJ, we are bandmates.

Tbh I was kinda shocked at his results, mainly the E, though the SFJ made some sense, because he's so shy. He has a very principled morality, paired with a lot of courtesy, but he is shy and quiet. He was better at humanities than math or science by far. He liked to cover or reference other works of music a lot, classic (5) temperament system would probably put him as supine/mencholic. The Asburger's diagnosis had a lot to due with social and sensory quirks, as well as the compulsive honest, etc.


----------



## LittleMissCurious (Jul 1, 2012)

I'm curious how such an individual would be typed if Asperberger's skews personality. I am inclined to think that it would be incredibly difficult for Fe to be recognizable as such in that instance. Fe is in large part about evaluating information according to how it impacts others. Asperger's symptoms seem to directly contradict this.


----------



## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

LittleMissCurious said:


> I'm curious how such an individual would be typed if Asperberger's skews personality. I am inclined to think that it would be incredibly difficult for Fe to be recognizable as such in that instance. Fe is in large part about evaluating information according to how it impacts others. Asperger's symptoms seem to directly contradict this.


I dunno about that. I am better at evaluating impacts to others than my ENFJ girlfriend. Or rather, I am more considerate than she. She reasons with what is best for the whole and what she believes society expects of her. I am an Aspie, she is not.

There are Aspies that are blind as a bat in this regard though. The point is that there are all flavours of Aspies as there are average people.


----------



## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

LittleMissCurious said:


> I'm curious how such an individual would be typed if Asperberger's skews personality. I am inclined to think that it would be incredibly difficult for Fe to be recognizable as such in that instance. Fe is in large part about evaluating information according to how it impacts others. Asperger's symptoms seem to directly contradict this.


It might be hard to see external signs of a function at work in someone with Asperger's (even an extroverted function), but I think it might be easier for an individual to recognize it themselves. So Fe in a "neurotypical" individual is more about acting on Fe judgement; but because it might be altered or corrupted in someone with Asperger's, the person might be innately aware of Fe-related stuff, but they are incapable of acting on it. I'm just speculating, though.


----------



## honoshikun (Sep 16, 2013)

I'm an ENFP with Aspergers. I can kind of see how the two could go together.


----------



## bearotter (Aug 10, 2012)

Yup. I think ENFJ need not be considerate -- Fe only is a rational function, how it is used depends totally on who one is. Consideration may not even be on the radar of an Fe-dom's motives. An inferior Fe is easily capable of serving such functions, and also one can't understate intuition's or sensation's role here...you can form patterns / record details salient to when someone was made mad. All Fe is {read: might be} telling you is, damn, it ain't cool with me to make them mad and I'm going to decide to do something that doesn't --- what that something would be depends a lot on data collection, which an STP can do fine.


----------



## Ellis Bell (Mar 16, 2012)

bearotter said:


> Yup. I think ENFJ need not be considerate -- Fe only is a rational function, how it is used depends totally on who one is. Consideration may not even be on the radar of an Fe-dom's motives. An inferior Fe is easily capable of serving such functions, and also one can't understate intuition's or sensation's role here...you can form patterns / record details salient to when someone was made mad. All Fe is {read: might be} telling you is, damn, it ain't cool with me to make them mad and I'm going to decide to do something that doesn't --- what that something would be depends a lot on data collection, which an STP can do fine.


I know of some STPs who can be a heck of a lot more considerate than some EFJs...


----------



## Nobleheart (Jun 9, 2010)

bearotter said:


> Yup. I think ENFJ need not be considerate -- Fe only is a rational function, how it is used depends totally on who one is. Consideration may not even be on the radar of an Fe-dom's motives. An inferior Fe is easily capable of serving such functions, and also one can't understate intuition's or sensation's role here...you can form patterns / record details salient to when someone was made mad. *All Fe is {read: might be} telling you is, damn, it ain't cool with me to make them mad and I'm going to decide to do something that doesn't --- what that something would be depends a lot on data collection*, which an STP can do fine.


This is_ exactly_ the issue I have been dealing with when I interact with Fi users, and probably Fe users too polite to tell me. My good intentions frequently rub them the wrong way because I apparently am unable to make decisions that are appropriate to their expectations. I've been trying to overcome this hurdle, and I am patently unable to. Combine this with the fact that I have some of the other Autistic Spectrum symptoms, and it stood to reason that I might be an ENFJ Aspiegirl who tests as INFJ due to the mechanisms, especially considering that I score very borderline with respect to INFJ and ENFJ while my neuromaps look INFJ (which has an extremely similar pattern to Aspies along with INTJ) but lean extrovert.


----------



## GinLe (9 mo ago)

Dastan said:


> ENFJ seems to be the opposite of aspergers sydrome symptoms. "Aspergers opposite" *Williams-Beuren syndrom* came to my mind, which sounds a little bit ENFJ-ish. Akward topic.


----------

