# Borderline Personality Disorder - Ask



## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

My diagnosis is *F60.3 "Emotionally unstable personality disorder"* in ICD-10. It has a lot in common with *Borderline Personality Disorder* from the American diagnosis system DSM-IV. 

Bi-diagnosis is *F40.1 "Social phobias"* in ICD-10. 

Depression is of course a given. And avoidant personality disorder has also been discussed due to my extreme isolation. 

My childhood has been described as an "obvious case of child neglect", stressing that I was emotionally and intellectually "under-stimulated", in some cases "undermined". The psychologist, a specialist in his field, spent half his diagnosis describing how intellectually resourceful I am, and how insightful, and able I am to reflect and cooperate. He also ended his diagnoses by saying that my diagnoses should rather be considered a "personal vulnerability" over "an inappropriate" or "the inconvenient" term "disorder". 

People with Borderline Personality Disorder often describe themselves as "hollow", "no one", "nothing and everything". It's something that I relate to quite well. 

Borderline Personality Disorder is often romanticized, and just as often exaggerated, and in some cases skewed in literature and movies. It can be a very difficult disorder to understand. 

So, if you have any questions, if you want to learn more, ask away. Maybe I'll have an answer. I will probably have to go by my own experiences a lot though since I'm (usually) very conscious about relativity.


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## Permeate (May 27, 2012)

I've heard a lot of explanations, but I'm still rather confused about this. How do the mood cycles of bpd differ from that of bipolar?


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Permeate said:


> I've heard a lot of explanations, but I'm still rather confused about this. How do the mood cycles of bpd differ from that of bipolar?


I think maybe you could say that the Bipolar has mood _swings_-- that cycles. They get all highs and all lows. Their mania and depression is fluent. 

And that the BPD has mood _spikes_-- that are relationship dependent. Their mood fluctuates chaotically, at times, uncontrollably. The BPD can be at an all low but only if they isolate themselves, and their highs are no different from most people.


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## letter_to_dana (Jun 4, 2013)

From what I've read bipolar people never tired to commit suicide. While almost every pacient with BPD did.
Is this information correct? Did you tried to kill yourself? (its a very direct question I know, i'm sorry, i'm just curious -- you can answer with something more general if you're bothered by my question)

Also, how do you behave in romantic relationships? Is it true that you feel 'empty' most of time? And incapable of loving someone for real without that feeling to turn into something bad?


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## JustBob31459 (Apr 7, 2014)

How deep-rooted of a question are you willing to answer?


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## IncoherentBabbler (Oct 21, 2013)

letter_to_dana said:


> From what I've read bipolar people never tired to commit suicide. While almost every pacient with BPD did.


Medication for bipolar can actually cause them to become suicidal, sadly. I'm not certain but that's hopefully one of the disorders that are kept at the hospital for observation while settling on the right medications...


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

letter_to_dana said:


> From what I've read bipolar people never tired to commit suicide. While almost every pacient with BPD did.
> Is this information correct? Did you tried to kill yourself? (its a very direct question I know, i'm sorry, i'm just curious -- you can answer with something more general if you're bothered by my question)
> 
> Also, how do you behave in romantic relationships? Is it true that you feel 'empty' most of time? And incapable of loving someone for real without that feeling to turn into something bad?


I have not read the statistics so I can't tell you if it's correct or not. If I were to commit suicide it would _not_ be a cry for help. It would be the closing of a book for me. I had the medicine cabinet in my lap once, but didn't go through with it because I didn't know what effect the different drugs would have on me. For all I knew I would end up with a really bad stomach ache, or worse, irreversible damage, and no death. That time I went so far as to open up the windows and vents to lower the stink of my corpse, turned off the heating in the bathroom, and I wrote a note that I stuck to my bathroom door that said "Do not open the door. I am dead. I have been dead since <date>. Do not open up the door if you have not seen a dead person before because it might traumatize you. So if you read this, call the '911' instead of opening the door. I'm sorry landlord that I did this in your house." or something like that. I didn't go through with it, but ended up in a catatonic-like state for a week or two. I've also day dreamed about creative ways to off myself on a general basis. 

I'm either [OFF!] or [ON!] in romantic relationships. There is no moderation. I don't understand how to. When I'm "off" I eventually get bored and annoyed by my partner, they're not the one, and I hate myself for not loving my partner, I'm wasting her time, and I break it off. When I'm "on" I'm extremely infatuated, terrified that I might be too clingy, I want to speak but I don't know how to, I get paranoid that they will leave me and frustrated that I can't say anything about what I'm thinking because it would be manipulating of me and I'm not their boss, and it will eventually lead to an inner-turmoil that will lead to a very bad breakup. I will never understand how anyone can love me, and it's something that I said to one of my partners once: "You could have anyone you wanted to. Out of everyone why are you with me?" or something like that, and she could say the nicest thing in the world and it wouldn't matter, because I wouldn't understand it, thus wouldn't hear it, and wouldn't remember it.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Scianto said:


> How deep-rooted of a question are you willing to answer?


Love, family, sex, violence? I don't think I mind.


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## Brother (Sep 21, 2013)

What kind of treatment are you getting for it?


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Brother said:


> What kind of treatment are you getting for it?


Child neglect > Lack of self-worth > Emotionally unstable personality ("Borderline") > Anxiety > Avoidant personality > Isolation "Prize" > Thought intrusions / Compulsive personality.

The personality "nuances" are laid on thick, one after another, one is cause for the other, and it's not going to get any better unless I try to reintegrate myself socially. I can't go to support groups, and I can't have just any psychologist. So I need to find a way to reintegrate myself socially, while seeing an experienced psychologist. I need a life coach/guide, for years, basically. But that is not to say that my rehabilitation method won't change once I get past hurdles. 

I have made plans to move closer to my older step sister. She lives on the other side of the country. She was the only one who gave me what I lacked/needed as a kid. So I'm going to reintegrate myself socially there first before I go on to something bigger.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

letter_to_dana said:


> From what I've read bipolar people never tired to commit suicide. While almost every pacient with BPD did.


As someone with a form of bipolar disorder, I can tell you that people with bipolar disorder are at increased risk for suicide at their peaks and in their valleys. They are at the most increased risk for suicidality while in a depressive trough, but some of the more intolerable aspects of mania (sleep deprivation) and certain mixed states can put a bipolar patient at risk for suicide. 

BTW, putting a person with depression or bipolar disorder on lithium decreases suicidality by like 60%.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

@eydimork -- What does the emptiness/hollowness feel like?


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

@koalaroo

With bipolar disorder, the thing that generally causes suicides are the following

1. Depression: It feels miserable, and for some reason depression has a quality about it that it'll never end and the more intense it is, the greater that feeling persists

2. Medication: Most psychiatrist who treat people with bipolar usually only focus on suppressing the mania without regard for the depression, this is partially due to the belief that society is more at risk with a manic patient than a depressed one _(I don't necessarily agree with this as people can be mean, homicidal, and cruel when depressed as well as manic)_; the psychiatrist usually will ignore pleas from their patient that they feel miserable on the medication and tell them to suck it up and put one foot in front of another, which in this case they might not be able to do _(some psychiatrists can be staggeringly short on empathy -- often shorter than surgeons -- and it would seem that many became psychiatrists for all the wrong reasons: Many become psychiatrists because of underlying emotional problems which they themselves have; issues with dealing with blood and sick people: Clearly the medial field is not for them, but they still want to have an M.D. or D.O. after their name and be called Doctor, and/or do not wish to have spent all their money for nothing and either go into psychiatry or allergy/immunology.)_.

3. Refusal to comply with medication: Since the medication just dampens out the mania, which many enjoy to some degree (hypomania), and only results in them feeling depressed; they usually just stop taking the medications which causes them to fluctuate up and down and the depressions actually can get worse.

4. Extreme Mania/Mixed States: Extreme mania can be overwhelming and in a desire to make it stop, suicide can occur; in mixed states, both mania and depression are present which is almost intolerable and can easily cause a person to think of doing nearly anything to make it stop.

5. Faulty Diagnoses: Some people were given faulty diagnoses of having "child bipolar disorder" which is a generally absurd diagnosis as most teenagers are moody and temperamental assholes: Still many teenagers were given these medications which were not applied to an adult brain which was fully formed and developed, but to brains that were still growing. To make it worse, since people become accustomed to a certain degree of changes in their moods, when something balances it out, they get used to this more balanced state; they switch off and now are back to their previous mood oscillations and no longer are used to the flux: As a result it seems worse than before (this is not like pain management problems) which results in more distress.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

koalaroo said:


> @eydimork -- What does the emptiness/hollowness feel like?


I don't belong to a species, race, nation, city, team, network or ideology. I'm abnormal, not human, an anomaly. Nobody is really my friend or family. Family only means genes. No place is home. I've never felt loved. _"I am everything, and I am nothing."_


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

How does "splitting" affect your relationship and your sense of self?


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## beth x (Mar 4, 2010)

eydimork said:


> I can't have just any psychologist. So I need to find a way to reintegrate myself socially, while seeing an experienced psychologist. I need a life coach/guide, for years, basically. But that is not to say that my rehabilitation method won't change once I get past hurdles.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> The first thing about BPD I learned in clinical psych was to refer, the second was refer, and so on so newbies in the profession would not have to deal with the possible suicides.
> ...


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## letter_to_dana (Jun 4, 2013)

At what age have you been diagnosed? In what way has your life (personal & social) changed from that moment?


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Morfinyon said:


> How does "splitting" affect your relationship and your sense of self?


I will always have a difficult time viewing myself as having good qualities. As being good intellectually, skillfully, and morally. But when I do, it's due to me being too caught up in something, too busy, to see that "this isn't all there is". So it turns grandiose, and despicable. An example of this is when we play computer games, and there's two of us, a friend of mine and me, and we fail at what we were doing in the game... if I'm too caught up in the game, and have put too much expectation into it, I can sometimes make it out to be all my friend's fault. Similarly, if we win, I can sometimes make it out to be all because of my friend that we won. The end result is gods or vermin, that's their titles. And I really hate the other part of myself because when I blame it on my friend I have a hard time (it leaves my head) to apologize and explain, because I'm too embarrassed by how I reacted, it's not me to lose my composure, and they also seem very unaffected by it, they just go "yup, that's eydimork for you."

Sometimes, I can view myself as being God, as being the wisest (having no equals, or none come close), or as being the most intelligent (having no equals, or none come close), and perhaps the most laughable, as being the only one capable of loving others. 

Most of the time... I view myself as evil. The Evil. As incapable of being loved. A demon. The Devil. And so on. 

But I don't really take any of it seriously. And I've never been this way while in a romantic relationship. 

In romantic relationships, if I've idealized the person, I eventually get torn apart. "Why is there love here in this hand, but so much pain in the other hand?" I get torn between the love and the pain, and I eventually can't take it anymore. I have to stop the pain, I have to end the relationship, whatever it takes. And of course, the end result hurts me as much as it hurts them. The only difference is that my mind breaks, theirs don't.



letter_to_dana said:


> At what age have you been diagnosed? In what way has your life (personal & social) changed from that moment?


I've always had that emotionally unstable quirk, lurking in the background, but it didn't peak until I was 20 years old. I was diagnosed as possibly having bipolar disorder and social anxiety at 23-25 years old, if not before that. And then I was diagnosed with avoidant personality disorder at 26-27 years old, and emotionally unstable personality disorder at 27-28 years old. Emotionally unstable is the final diagnosis, and any other "disorder" I have like avoidant / social anxiety and depression comes from emotionally unstable. 

Since I was diagnosed (about a year ago) I've learned how important my older step sister was to me, and still is, and I've made plans to move closer to her (not to live with her, but near her). I've cleared out my apartment and now I'm just waiting to get enough money saved up so I can pack my bags and leave. 

The reason why I became avoidant is because I learned that I had to remain detached in order to remain healthy, so I shouldn't say that is what I've learned, since being detached doesn't help me rehabilitate. But I've learned that there's a thin line between attached and detached, and that things go bad when I'm attached (and doesn't get any better detached). I'm going to have to venture into that dangerous attachment area again while I see a psychologist otherwise there can't be progress. 

It's difficult to say that my life has changed dramatically because it's too soon to tell. My psychologist said that it would take years before I would see any changes.


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## Obscure (May 20, 2013)

Mmm, my mother is, due to almost 19 years of observation, hardcore bipolar. I think it's her family thing.
She can, how to put this in a decent way, blow up with serial killer tendencies on me. It only takes one phone call for her to miraculously transform into a pink and butterflies people-person who bursts out with laughter. Then, once she hangs up, poof chaos mode on. She carries a conversation and then laughs with me, suddenly threatens me and she spits the "I'm not kidding" or "Do you see I'm kidding?" DAFUQ YOU WERE JUST LITERALLY JOKING WITH ME! Then she acts on an other mood. I don't wanna sit here and type about her borderline personality all day long; I just hope I won't be like her.
It used to affect me a lot, when I was a kid...well, I still am young, the point is, it used to mindfuck me. But _I _have changed now, and each time she does something and sees that it's not affecting a single nerve in me, she's satisfying me with her hurt reflexes. AND I'M NOT FEELING BAD ABOUT HURTING HER.
I think I'm maybe becoming more psychotic. Can't say borderline because although I have tried and tried to shift myself like her, it's impossible for me. My anxiety takes time to flash my depression back or fade with it - usually like each five days.
She's the type that if you tell her she's wrong, she'll behead you. If you try to HELP her, she'll hurt you. 

Should I pretend to care about her or be hurt when she thinks she can still hurt me? What about me? Haven't I been hurt, used, and abused enough?
Hell, even if I decide to pretend she's hurting me, I can't! I can't shift in a split second like her!


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Vampire said:


> Mmm, my mother is, due to almost 19 years of observation, hardcore bipolar. I think it's her family thing.
> She can, how to put this in a decent way, blow up with serial killer tendencies on me. It only takes one phone call for her to miraculously transform into a pink and butterflies people-person who bursts out with laughter. Then, once she hangs up, poof chaos mode on. She carries a conversation and then laughs with me, suddenly threatens me and she spits the "I'm not kidding" or "Do you see I'm kidding?" DAFUQ YOU WERE JUST LITERALLY JOKING WITH ME! Then she acts on an other mood. I don't wanna sit here and type about her borderline personality all day long; I just hope I won't be like her.
> It used to affect me a lot, when I was a kid...well, I still am young, the point is, it used to mindfuck me. But _I _have changed now, and each time she does something and sees that it's not affecting a single nerve in me, she's satisfying me with her hurt reflexes. AND I'M NOT FEELING BAD ABOUT HURTING HER.
> I think I'm maybe becoming more psychotic. Can't say borderline because although I have tried and tried to shift myself like her, it's impossible for me. My anxiety takes time to flash my depression back or fade with it - usually like each five days.
> ...


I dislike asserting myself and to be influential when there's an off-chance that it will affect people destructively, and with that, all I can say is that your mother needs psychological help. 

What I got stems from severe emotional abandonment, by a single mother (influenced by the feminist movement to believe that women should only focus on the flaws of men and do everything alone by themselves; "girl power!") that was more interested in school, work, and her love-life than me. Sometimes, "to make up for it", she would take me with her to her school, work, and her love-life. I remember one time, she took me with her on a five hour long drive to some remote place just so that I could sit down-stairs in this old shitty house that I've never been before, while having to listen to my mother get fucked by this gross pig upstairs, and when they came back down they were fondling each other on the couch-- as if I wasn't even there. When I attempted to confront her about it later, I was yelled at, as if I was the spawn of Satan. How dare I, you know? My life is not important. I shouldn't exist. I'm a burden. And that's not the worst case scenario. That's just an example of how I was dehumanized. There are thousands more situations like it. Some, not as bad. Others, unreasonably worse. There was also de-gendering (Thanks, feminism, again). The list of what a man should not be, and should not do, is so long that it is easier just to say: Do not be anything, and do not do anything. 

So I grew up as a psychological time bomb. My emotional instability was bound to escalate. And it did, when I threw that _worthless whore_ out of my life. Pardon, I didn't mean to insult whores by comparing them to my mother.

I don't want to tell you to distance yourself from your mother because that might make your mother worse. Not that your mother's health should should be any of your concern. And depending on how you do it, you might end up escalating your own issues should you have them. It's a dilemma if your mother is unable to see herself, and refuse to acknowledge that she needs professional help. If you were younger, you could call child services. 

In my opinion, the child is always more important, so, you should do what you think is best for you, and that will be the right thing to do.


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## Obscure (May 20, 2013)

eydimork said:


> I dislike asserting myself and to be influential when there's an off-chance that it will affect people destructively, and with that, all I can say is that your mother needs psychological help.
> 
> What I got stems from severe emotional abandonment, by a single mother (influenced by the feminist movement to believe that women should only focus on the flaws of men and do everything alone by themselves; "girl power!") that was more interested in school, work, and her love-life than me. Sometimes, "to make up for it", she would take me with her to her school, work, and her love-life. I remember one time, she took me with her on a five hour long drive to some remote place just so that I could sit down-stairs in this old shitty house that I've never been before, while having to listen to my mother get fucked by this gross pig upstairs, and when they came back down they were fondling each other on the couch-- as if I wasn't even there. When I attempted to confront her about it later, I was yelled at, as if I was the spawn of Satan. How dare I, you know? My life is not important. I shouldn't exist. I'm a burden. And that's not the worst case scenario. That's just an example of how I was dehumanized. There are thousands more situations like it. Some, not as bad. Others, unreasonably worse. There was also de-gendering (Thanks, feminism, again). The list of what a man should not be, and should not do, is so long that it is easier just to say: Do not be anything, and do not do anything.
> 
> ...



Thank you, but really, nothing can affect me anymore. Once she's started menopause, I used to be there for her, talk to her, or try to make her feel better [things that I rarely had the blessing to see from her in my entire life]. Instead, all I got was being shout at, somehow slapped, or dismissed. It hurt me, few years ago, that my mother was so miserable. Clearly, I didn't notice how I constantly allowed her to keep on hurting me.

You're giving me an other reason to never mention stuff to my parents.
They always treated me like an adult, gave me big freedom, and nurtured me with cold reality. It's not narcissism, but I had a certainly higher level of intelligence and MUCH more experience than the majority of people near my age. What my perfect parents, especially my mother, neglected were my emotions. Unfortunately, till now, my EQ is dirt level. One of my reasons which made me feel like a worthless piece of shit was that my mother used to make disgusted sounds and push me over, even down the couch, when I wanted to hug her. She made me feel guilty for many things. I didn't hate her, I hated myself.
Your mother tended to "make up" rarely? That doesn't exist in my mother's dictionary. Either I _deserved _something or I didn't. On top of that, deserving something meant, "You can play with your toys until hour x:xx". 

The most fun part is unfathomable. I will never know what bravery did I do, to not only hear her moans once, but to actually deserve to be a witness of my parental loving, every fucking night. For years. I actually wished they'd divorce, so maybe you were luckier. So yeah, emotions? BAHAHAHAA Who needs those? Who cares about a person who got gradually mentally raped? 
I cannot remember any stage where my libido hasn't been as high as a drunken nimpho. All I felt were horrid guilt each time I masturbated from that screwed atmosphere. Who cares about that piece of shit just few inches away, pff 

After so many years, I finally stopped myself of falling for the same trap of weak moments for affection seeking. I can't allow myself to be fooled with both of my parents momentary attention and concerned act so they can wipe the floor with me half an hour later, oh and of course blame me. Why don't I just leave them? Why should _I_ pay for their flawless life? 

I agree with you. Even with my hesitation for human contact and lack of expression, should I ever make the mistake of having a child, I can never allow myself to treat him/her like a...hmm I don't wanna think about the word. Let's stick with heartlessly


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

Well, l can relate to my mother who has it sometimes more than l'd like to admit and l will see that sporadic likeness in myself.

l think we communicate in a similar way, that is also similar to non family member BPD folks l have encountered or read about ( l am thinking less along the lines of the more outwardly volatile cases and more along the ''mirro'r' (?) type of BPD, whatever it would be.

But,my working theory has been that some parts of BPD are pretty much hardwired and essentially 'normal' for the person is question-when they become a patient is when the more serious symptoms are triggered though various things (trauma, neglect most commonly as you know).

l think something about having those very easily permeable * ego boundaries* screams borderline to a lot of people, but that isn't necessarily something that gets you into trouble, though there is the increased risk. 

She is open about having it though will sometimes say that doctors diagnose ''everyone'' with it, more often she just talks about her depression.

As alike as we can be, it seems a defining difference is that she just isn't ready to, or lacks the desire to really be independent in her mind -doesn't analyze her issues in terms of the way they relate to herself and not other people (so far, a rotating door of other people).

As a result of being dependant on other people, she can be deeply manipulative but it's a cycle that's reinforced by her circumstances.

Has that been an issue for you?


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Vampire said:


> Thank you, but really, nothing can affect me anymore. Once she's started menopause, I used to be there for her, talk to her, or try to make her feel better [things that I rarely had the blessing to see from her in my entire life]. Instead, all I got was being shout at, somehow slapped, or dismissed. It hurt me, few years ago, that my mother was so miserable. Clearly, I didn't notice how I constantly allowed her to keep on hurting me.
> 
> You're giving me an other reason to never mention stuff to my parents.
> They always treated me like an adult, gave me big freedom, and nurtured me with cold reality. It's not narcissism, but I had a certainly higher level of intelligence and MUCH more experience than the majority of people near my age. What my perfect parents, especially my mother, neglected were my emotions. Unfortunately, till now, my EQ is dirt level. One of my reasons which made me feel like a worthless piece of shit was that my mother used to make disgusted sounds and push me over, even down the couch, when I wanted to hug her. She made me feel guilty for many things. I didn't hate her, I hated myself.
> ...


I'm not a parent. It's not that I don't like kids, but that I fear myself. I fear that my actions, like I said earlier, will have a bad affect. I can only imagine myself as being the kind of parent that seems indifferent and strict, yet, wouldn't turn the child away. At worst, I could get frustrated and "bark" condescendingly at the child if the child did something "incorrectly", which would be utmost retarded of me. There is also the possibility that I would commit suicide sometime before or right after the child was born because I would view myself as too inept and evil to raise a child. There would be a tremendous amount of stress there that could push me over the edge. That is, if I didn't go see a psychologist. But, I would not do like my father did, and attempt to commit suicide well-after the child was born, after the child had gotten to know me, for some stupid reason like: because my girlfriend abandoned me. Fuck that, that's not a reason to commit suicide when you have a kid. 

I take parenting extremely seriously. It's one of the few things in life I take seriously. It doesn't take much for me to get raving mad at single parents, especially them idiots at support forums who keep talking about how fucked up their kids are, and not themselves. have you seen those mother forums? Argh! Whenever I hear about a single mother who's out "clubbing" I want to beat the bitch. I would probably go see a psychologist for the rest of my life from the moment on that a kid was so unfortunate as to have me as its parent, and I would have to learn humility, and I would have to learn patience, and I would have to ask the psychologist question upon question upon question on what would be the right course of action so that I would support my child emotionally and intellectually, so that it does not grow up with the same pain I did, or some other kind of pain. I wouldn't hesitate. 

So I think there's a level if ignorance and denial that takes place with some parents. I feel for you.


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## Obscure (May 20, 2013)

eydimork said:


> I'm not a parent. It's not that I don't like kids, but that I fear myself. I fear that my actions, like I said earlier, will have a bad affect. I can only imagine myself as being the kind of parent that seems indifferent and strict, yet, wouldn't turn the child away. At worst, I could get frustrated and "bark" condescendingly at the child if the child did something "incorrectly", which would be utmost retarded of me. There is also the possibility that I would commit suicide sometime before or right after the child was born because I would view myself as too inept and evil to raise a child. There would be a tremendous amount of stress there that could push me over the edge. That is, if I didn't go see a psychologist. But, I would not do like my father did, and attempt to commit suicide well-after the child was born, after the child had gotten to know me, for some stupid reason like: because my girlfriend abandoned me. Fuck that, that's not a reason to commit suicide when you have a kid.
> 
> I take parenting extremely seriously. It's one of the few things in life I take seriously. It doesn't take much for me to get raving mad at single parents, especially them idiots at support forums who keep talking about how fucked up their kids are, and not themselves. have you seen those mother forums? Argh! Whenever I hear about a single mother who's out "clubbing" I want to beat the bitch. I would probably go see a psychologist for the rest of my life from the moment on that a kid was so unfortunate as to have me as its parent, and I would have to learn humility, and I would have to learn patience, and I would have to ask the psychologist question upon question upon question on what would be the right course of action so that I would support my child emotionally and intellectually, so that it does not grow up with the same pain I did, or some other kind of pain. I wouldn't hesitate.
> 
> So I think there's a level if ignorance and denial that takes place with some parents. I feel for you.


So do I.

Surprisingly I don't have that fear. I have this STUPID instinct in me to alwas take care/organize all around me. Not just in the controlling way, but also comforting them. I've learnt the hard way that I should stop killing myself to take care of those who are around me. Even in the dating/infatuation period, I find myself petting/pampering the person. 

There re should be legal tests before allowing someone whether they are required to "parent" or not.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Lady O.W. Bro said:


> Well, l can relate to my mother who has it sometimes more than l'd like to admit and l will see that sporadic likeness in myself.
> 
> l think we communicate in a similar way, that is also similar to non family member BPD folks l have encountered or read about ( l am thinking less along the lines of the more outwardly volatile cases and more along the ''mirro'r' (?) type of BPD, whatever it would be.
> 
> ...


I have the ability to reflect and have a tremendous amount of insight into my own problems. I also have the ability to understand humans but--- not the person--- I cannot put myself in anyone's shoes. 

In my relationships I cannot remember having made any attempts to manipulate, consciously or not--- but I can remember having felt the need to. I mean, I fall in love, and I feel great, for the first time, in like, forever, and I feel like I matter again, like I exist, I live, and I don't want to lose that. I have an empty hole inside, which has been filled up, and it's not easy to undo. It's easy to mix eggs and flour but it's not easy to separate it, if you know what I mean. What's done is done. You can't just go: "Nah, I take that back." There are no take-backs. I don't understand how people can do that so easily. It makes me think that people don't actually fall in love with each other, that it's just for pretend. So I can understand why some people would manipulate. What stops me from manipulating is this force or barrier that says "You don't have the right to say that it hurts you when it hurts you," like my mother taught me, like my mother dehumanized me: When I am with my mother, it is my mother's bubble, not my bubble, I have no bubble, so if I don't like it I just have to suck it up or leave. So long as I'm with a woman, I have no bubble, it is their bubble, I have no say, I have no right, I have nothing. So if they want to torture me, I just have to suck it up. If they want to kill me, I just have to suck it up. So I can't manipulate. I'm too handicapped to manipulate. 

But yes, there's definitely a dependency there. And I'm definitely locked up inside my own head which makes it difficult for me to understand others.


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## LadyO.W.BernieBro (Sep 4, 2010)

eydimork said:


> I have the ability to reflect and have a tremendous amount of insight into my own problems. I also have the ability to understand humans but--- not the person--- I cannot put myself in anyone's shoes.
> 
> In my relationships I cannot remember having made any attempts to manipulate, consciously or not--- but I can remember having felt the need to. I mean, I fall in love, and I feel great, for the first time, in like, forever, and I feel like I matter again, like I exist, I live, and I don't want to lose that. I have an empty hole inside, which has been filled up, and it's not easy to undo. It's easy to mix eggs and flour but it's not easy to separate it, if you know what I mean. What's done is done. You can't just go: "Nah, I take that back." There are no take-backs. I don't understand how people can do that so easily. It makes me think that people don't actually fall in love with each other, that it's just for pretend. So I can understand why some people would manipulate. What stops me from manipulating is this force or barrier that says "You don't have the right to say that it hurts you when it hurts you," like my mother taught me, like my mother dehumanized me: When I am with my mother, it is my mother's bubble, not my bubble, I have no bubble, so if I don't like it I just have to suck it up or leave. So long as I'm with a woman, I have no bubble, it is their bubble, I have no say, I have no right, I have nothing. So if they want to torture me, I just have to suck it up. If they want to kill me, I just have to suck it up. So I can't manipulate. I'm too handicapped to manipulate.
> 
> But yes, there's definitely a dependency there. And I'm definitely locked up inside my own head which makes it difficult for me to understand others.


Hm. Maybe it's diagnosed differently outside of the US, with less stigma.



l don't think you sound too 'bad', for lack of a better word. 

But it's my non-professional opinion that things like the 'identity disturbance' is probably something teat is mentioned in the criteria after more serious issues arise, and is normal or  hardwired. l don't really think it is deeply concerning in itself.

Well, l guess with the obvious exception being, unless a patient can actually trace the root of it back to trauma but that isn't always the case.

Very controversial here.


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## queenisidore (May 9, 2014)

Permeate said:


> I've heard a lot of explanations, but I'm still rather confused about this. How do the mood cycles of bpd differ from that of bipolar?


I have both borderline personality disorder and bipolar disorder and I can tell you the mood swings are VERY different. Everything about my borderline mood swings were severe and quick. The shortest mood swings I've ever had were seconds in between. They're paranoia, rage, mania, and depression as opposed to scared, mad, happy, or sad. 

Now that I'm on medicine, my borderline mood swings have [mostly] gone away and left my bipolar mood swings. Those are longer periods of time. My depression will last a few weeks; my mania will last a few weeks. With borderline swings, there was almost no time at all. 

I don't want to commandeer this thread since it's not mine but if y'all have questions, hit me up.


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## Permeate (May 27, 2012)

queenisidore said:


> I have both borderline personality disorder and bipolar disorder and I can tell you the mood swings are VERY different. Everything about my borderline mood swings were severe and quick. The shortest mood swings I've ever had were seconds in between. They're paranoia, rage, mania, and depression as opposed to scared, mad, happy, or sad.
> 
> Now that I'm on medicine, my borderline mood swings have [mostly] gone away and left my bipolar mood swings. Those are longer periods of time. My depression will last a few weeks; my mania will last a few weeks. With borderline swings, there was almost no time at all.
> 
> I don't want to commandeer this thread since it's not mine but if y'all have questions, hit me up.


Hm. I've had instances of quick (less than 1 day) instances of hypomania and mild depression. Or even agitation. But I've noticed that they collectively form a long-term trend. Full mania is always longer too.

I definitely don't experience dramatic mood swings though. They are always very gradual, like you said.


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## queenisidore (May 9, 2014)

Permeate said:


> Hm. I've had instances of quick (less than 1 day) instances of hypomania and mild depression. Or even agitation. But I've noticed that they collectively form a long-term trend. Full mania is always longer too.
> 
> I definitely don't experience dramatic mood swings though. They are always very gradual, like you said.


I can't diagnose you of course but if it effects your life, I'd talk to someone. If you wanna talk more, you can message me! I'm open to talking; I just don't want to take over someone else's thread.


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## Kazoo The Kid (May 26, 2013)

I'm not officially diagnosed with BPD. But its been a potential diagnosis for awhile.

I especially like how you described that feeling of godliness. 

If you could make it so you never had this disorder. Would you? Do you consider it apart of you? Or something you would happily dispose of?

Alot of people I've met seem to get attached their disorder. They seem to think "I am X. What am I without X. X is me" and therefore do not want to fix it.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Were you prone to self harm?


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## Permeate (May 27, 2012)

queenisidore said:


> I can't diagnose you of course but if it effects your life, I'd talk to someone. If you wanna talk more, you can message me! I'm open to talking; I just don't want to take over someone else's thread.


I am diagnosed with bipolar and was just curious about the differences. Thank you for illuminating them.


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## Nowhere Man (Apr 22, 2012)

Has your BPD ever caused you to ruin the life of someone you love or permanently scar them in some way?


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Were you prone to self harm?


No. I mean, not physically. 



Nowhere Man said:


> Has your BPD ever caused you to ruin the life of someone you love or permanently scar them in some way?


I don't want to go into details, but one way to end the turmoil before it eats me is to remove myself from the equation. I doorslam when they keep making me feel like I'm a problem, and I don't grant anyone an explanation before I depart. If they don't get it, they never really knew me, and they're not deserving of an explanation. When it get's so far that I doorslam them, I don't know what happens to them next, because they don't exist to me anymore. I know instinctively where to hit loved ones where it hurts the most, pour salts in the wound, and rub it in, and I try so damned hard not to, but sometimes, doorslamming is not enough, sometimes, it's like they're asking for it. When I cause loved ones pain, I do it in what can only be described as psychosis, and it's because I want them to stop loving me, because I can't stop loving them.


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## Nowhere Man (Apr 22, 2012)

eydimork said:


> I don't want to go into details, but one way to end the turmoil before it eats me is to remove myself from the equation. I doorslam when they keep making me feel like I'm a problem, and I don't grant anyone an explanation before I depart. If they don't get it, they never really knew me, and they're not deserving of an explanation. When it get's so far that I doorslam them, I don't know what happens to them next, because they don't exist to me anymore. I know instinctively where to hit loved ones where it hurts the most, pour salts in the wound, and rub it in, and I try so damned hard not to, but sometimes, doorslamming is not enough, sometimes, it's like they're asking for it. When I cause loved ones pain, I do it in what can only be described as psychosis, and it's because I want them to stop loving me, because I can't stop loving them.


It's interesting... seems like many people are afraid of being hurt by a mental illness, but few consider that it might (consciously or unconsciously) cause them to hurt a friend or loved one, fostering even more feelings of guilt and emotional turmoil which can lead to even more extreme emotional "peaks". Do you think this is a common self-perpetuating cycle among BPD sufferers?


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Nowhere Man said:


> It's interesting... seems like many people are afraid of being hurt by a mental illness, but few consider that it might (consciously or unconsciously) cause them to hurt a friend or loved one, fostering even more feelings of guilt and emotional turmoil which can lead to even more extreme emotional "peaks". Do you think this is a common self-perpetuating cycle among BPD sufferers?


Possibly. It's at the very least in my case. But I suppose some bi-diagnoses are only "afraid of being hurt", like how I've isolated myself to avoid it, and the compulsion to perpetuate the isolation. The compulsion is why I demanded to see a skilled psychologists. That was the first thing they looked at, and my avoidant behavior, and concluded was layers on top of the actual diagnosis.


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## Nowhere Man (Apr 22, 2012)

eydimork said:


> Possibly. It's at the very least in my case. But I suppose some bi-diagnoses are only "afraid of being hurt", like how I've isolated myself to avoid it, and the compulsion to perpetuate the isolation. The compulsion is why I demanded to see a skilled psychologists. That was the first thing they looked at, and my avoidant behavior, and concluded was layers on top of the actual diagnosis.


Most Borderlines I've known have been highly sensitive, ultimately caring people who end up hurting themselves by inadvertently hurting someone else, and so the cycle continues and snowballs to even greater extremes. It's one of the most tragic mental/emotional conditions I know of, along with being notoriously difficult to treat, as you probably know. I highly commend you for being self-aware and seeking help.


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## OldManRivers (Mar 22, 2012)

letter_to_dana said:


> From what I've read bipolar people never tired to commit suicide. While almost every pacient with BPD did.
> Is this information correct? Did you tried to kill yourself? (its a very direct question I know, i'm sorry, i'm just curious -- you can answer with something more general if you're bothered by my question)
> 
> Also, how do you behave in romantic relationships? Is it true that you feel 'empty' most of time? And incapable of loving someone for real without that feeling to turn into something bad?


Bipolar disorder can cover a very broad range of symptoms, and in the depressed phase, there have been suicides.

Borderline personality also has a wide range and may be misdiagnosed: that doesn't matter for the therapy is based on symptoms and not diagnosis. Most mental disorders - actually, they are statistical clusters of symptoms - have wide ranges of behavioral symptoms.


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## ozones (Oct 5, 2013)

I know someone who just got divorced to someone who was diagnosed with BPD. Thats the first time i heard about it. The bitch was cray and destroyed his life. No logic, no integrity. She should be put away.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

ozones said:


> I know someone who just got divorced to someone who was diagnosed with BPD. Thats the first time i heard about it. The bitch was cray and destroyed his life. No logic, no integrity. She should be put away.


I should perhaps keep a low profile to not provoke that hint of bitterness in your post, but I feel compelled to tell you that few would take advice from an ignoramus who uses the term 'cray' let alone implies superficial labels to scuff complex issues away, without at the very least attempting to understand it first. With that, I'm saying, that you are perhaps not suited to participate in intellectual conversation, and instead, more welcome in the gossip forum, where the less eloquent of our species tend to swell in greater number.


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## eydimork (Mar 19, 2014)

Nowhere Man said:


> Most Borderlines I've known have been highly sensitive, ultimately caring people who end up hurting themselves by inadvertently hurting someone else, and so the cycle continues and snowballs to even greater extremes. It's one of the most tragic mental/emotional conditions I know of, along with being notoriously difficult to treat, as you probably know. I highly commend you for being self-aware and seeking help.


And I admire your insight.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

ozones said:


> I know someone who just got divorced to someone who was diagnosed with BPD. Thats the first time i heard about it. The bitch was cray and destroyed his life. No logic, no integrity. She should be put away.


I don't think this is the appropriate thread to demonize people living with BPD based on your limited experience with them. @eydimork is answering questions for the curious, and there are people in this thread who have had bad experiences with borderlines who still maintain a healthy view of the matter.


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## ozones (Oct 5, 2013)

[No message]


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## ozones (Oct 5, 2013)

[No message]


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## magnisarara (Feb 28, 2013)

My sis has been diagnosed with BPD... Sometimes she threatens to run away, and the more we beg her the more she will threaten and sometimes she does...
How can we prevent it, or how should we handle the situation.
hers stems from childhood trauma.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

ozones said:


> lol


Your interactions in this thread prove that you are not a particularly mature individual.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

What do you do when you kind of blow up at a friend and hurt them? Or do they understand?
How do you find reasons to live?
Have you found a way not to self-harm?


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

eydimork said:


> I don't belong to a species, race, nation, city, team, network or ideology. I'm abnormal, not human, an anomaly. Nobody is really my friend or family. Family only means genes. No place is home. I've never felt loved. _"I am everything, and I am nothing."_


I have felt like that. No one ever said I had BPD tho.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

ozones said:


> I know someone who just got divorced to someone who was diagnosed with BPD. Thats the first time i heard about it. The bitch was cray and destroyed his life. No logic, no integrity. She should be put away.


You cannot see what goes on behind other peoples closed doors. And taking the information from a scorned ex spouse alone as whole is rather naive. I am saying that as a divorcee. My ex publicly shamed me when I left him. (I did not reduce myself to that) anyways for the most part I was surprised at how many people (even from his side of friends/family) did not buy into the one endedness. But there were a few that have snubbed me based on his public accounting of events. Who is really a more unbalanced person in such an equation someone who relies one very disgruntled biased view to determine how they treat others or someone who is going about their business and living their life?


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## ozones (Oct 5, 2013)

Cinnamon83 said:


> You cannot see what goes on behind other peoples closed doors. And taking the information from a scorned ex spouse alone as whole is rather naive. I am saying that as a divorcee. My ex publicly shamed me when I left him. (I did not reduce myself to that) anyways for the most part I was surprised at how many people (even from his side of friends/family) did not buy into the one endedness. But there were a few that have snubbed me based on his public accounting of events. Who is really a more unbalanced person in such an equation someone who relies one very disgruntled biased view to determine how they treat others or someone who is going about their business and living their life?



uhhh yea I'm gonna value the account of a close family friends son who's literally the sweetest guy around over some freak who was diagnosed with a personality disorder meaning she cannot function in society and destroys lives. Was my comment politically correct? No. But there has to be some intermission in this circle jerk for the mentally ill lol


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Hmm, I've researched into this (Borderline Personality Disorder)

It's unsettling how often individuals with it get diagnosed with other things, I hope that's been improved now with more eduction on it. 
But yeah, I focused specifically on antisocial PD, Histrionic PD, Narcissistic PD and Borderline (all cluster B stuff). In more specific also, the (I'd consider) devastating relationships those borderline PD can form with antisocial PD individuals (far more destructive for the individual with borderline, undoubtably). But there can be an odd sort of stick there which I think is important to avoid.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

ozones said:


> uhhh yea I'm gonna value the account of a close family friends son who's literally the sweetest guy around over some freak who was diagnosed with a personality disorder meaning she cannot function in society and destroys lives. Was my comment politically correct? No. But there has to be some intermission in this circle jerk for the mentally ill lol


I am just thinking that your likening whatever person you know of, to a thread of the subject is rather bs. I am not getting my panties in a bunch on your deciding to be PC or not. I am not particularly fond of PCness in general. I don't really think you need to coddle anyone I wasn't suggesting a bed of marshmallows. But when you use this one person to refer to the circle jerk of the mentally ill you suggest she represents everyone.


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## queenisidore (May 9, 2014)

ozones said:


> uhhh yea I'm gonna value the account of a close family friends son who's literally the sweetest guy around over some freak who was diagnosed with a personality disorder meaning she cannot function in society and destroys lives. Was my comment politically correct? No. But there has to be some intermission in this circle jerk for the mentally ill lol


I have BPD and have never destroyed a life... 
If I wanted to destroy a life, I easily could and I'd start with people like you. ) 

Anyways, if you're so pissy, start your own thread about how horrible we are.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

O_o said:


> Hmm, I've researched into this (Borderline Personality Disorder)
> 
> It's unsettling how often individuals with it get diagnosed with other things, I hope that's been improved now with more eduction on it.
> But yeah, I focused specifically on antisocial PD, Histrionic PD, Narcissistic PD and Borderline (all cluster B stuff). In more specific also, the (I'd consider) devastating relationships those borderline PD can form with antisocial PD individuals (far more destructive for the individual with borderline, undoubtably). But there can be an odd sort of stick there which I think is important to avoid.


People with borderline traits often end up enmeshed with narcissists. It's literally the perfect storm.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

koalaroo said:


> People with borderline traits often end up enmeshed with narcissists.


Definitely, them too. Would make sense, narcissists and those with AsPD share a lot of the same outward fronts.


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## ozones (Oct 5, 2013)

[No message]


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

O_o said:


> Definitely, them too. Would make sense, narcissists and those with AsPD share a lot of the same outward fronts.


All people with AsPD usually qualify for NPD as well. Basically, the borderline has poor boundaries which the NPD/AsPD exploits, and because the borderline has a poor sense of self, they make the perfect "mirror" for the narcissist/sociopath.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

koalaroo said:


> All people with AsPD usually qualify for NPD as well. Basically, the borderline has poor boundaries which the NPD/AsPD exploits, and because the borderline has a poor sense of self, they make the perfect "mirror" for the narcissist/sociopath.


Outwardly they certainly do, but the core of the two (their narcissism) differs I think. If I remember correctly, those with NPD are generally more vulnerable at the core and more in need of the attention and "narcissistic supply". But details details. Anyways, yeah, which is really pretty sad (but understandable), talk about bad role models. I'm trying to think if there have been any famous examples of cases like that in history or something


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

O_o said:


> Outwardly they certainly do, but the core of the two (their narcissism) differs I think. If I remember correctly, those with NPD are generally more vulnerable at the core and more in need of the attention and "narcissistic supply". But details details. Anyways, yeah, which is really pretty sad (but understandable), talk about bad role models. I'm trying to think if there have been any famous examples of cases like that in history or something


Marilyn Monroe and most of the men she was with.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

O_o said:


> Outwardly they certainly do, but the core of the two (their narcissism) differs I think. If I remember correctly, those with NPD are generally more vulnerable at the core and more in need of the attention and "narcissistic supply". But details details. Anyways, yeah, which is really pretty sad (but understandable), talk about bad role models. I'm trying to think if there have been any famous examples of cases like that in history or something


I'm saying also that every person with AsPD will meet the criterion for NPD.


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