# What is the difference between female INFJ and female ISTP?



## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

I was typed both.

And I know they use the same functions.

But I'm not sure if I'm Ni dom or Ti dom.

I think I'm something inbetween.
Why?

It might be a bit stereotypical, but here we go ;


1)I've heard dom functions develope in childhood. When I look at my childhood, I was a sensitive kid, but I was really curious and creative. To the point that If I want to guess my childhood most used functions, Ti or Ne come to my mind.
I honestly don't know how Ni dom works in childhood.



2)I'm not that good in Fe.
I probably use it. 
But I'm not good at it. I care about what others might think. I try not to make people mad or start conflicts, I love harmony. But
When moral situations or Fe related things happen, I feel awkward/oblivious and have to ask people close to me about what I should do (in a situation).
But INFJs have Fe aux and are good at it.


3)I can't figure out whether I'm introvert or extrovert.
I'm not a total extrovert. I get tired in social situations.
But I don't like to be totally alone. I need people.
I can't deal with crowds and large gatherings.
But I still enjoy spending time with family or talking to people every once in a while.


4)When I think about my shadow (inf function), I can't really relate to inferior Se.
I do use Se every once in a while, but, When I'm broken (shadow), I become depressed, distant, sensitive, can't control my emotions, get even more cynical, can't see future, become hopeless, become less physical.
This is not Se inferior.


5)I don't dare to type myself a thinker. When makind decisions, I try not toncause drama or conflicts. Sometimes I stay quiet and act passive aggressive just cause I don't want people to be mad at me. But I guess I use Ti. Cause I sometimes think internally and have some point of views that some people might disagree with. But I still don't change my mind even if lots of people disagree with.


So guys...What do you think?


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## Dissenter (Jul 31, 2017)

The difference between a female INFJ and a female ISTP is that the former is a Goddess while the latter isn't. So if you think you're a Goddess, a madonna, and a perfect manifestation of the word _lady_, you're probably an INFJ. 

I kid you not.


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## Dissenter (Jul 31, 2017)

Dissenter said:


> The difference between a female INFJ and a female ISTP is that the former is a Goddess while the latter isn't. So if you think you're a Goddess, a madonna, and a perfect manifestation of the word _lady_, you're probably an INFJ.
> 
> I kid you not.


 @Falling Foxes, I think you may be the best person to verify this. How off am I?


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

Dissenter said:


> @Falling Foxes, I think you may be the best person to verify this. How off am I?


Am I the best person because of my clear bias towards the INFJ female (and male for that matter)? 

There is definitely an elegance to the INFJ. So long as we are talking about deities her powers would be (although not limited to) insight and the ability to understand see right into a person's soul.

I'm yet to meet an INFJ who can't pick up on the subtleties of a person's mannerisms and understand them to a depth most others can't, or at the very least there'd be a need to understand that if they can't. Sounds like something you might struggle with @MissElle .

Although you are reminding me of why I struggled so much to type my father. I settled on INTP in the end but I'm still willing to be proved wrong. He's sensitive, very unstereotypically Ti-dom like (stereotypes normally imply Ti-doms are harsh, dangerously playful and bad at caring for other people which doesn't describe my father at all), his use of Fe is like an INFJ, and I think he's always had a strong Fe since childhood but Ti has always been strong too, stronger really... So are the descriptions of Ti too polarising compared to other functions?

I discovered Si must be my inferior because it's what I rebel the most against, maybe that method of looking at things might help? Or maybe rebellion is just a Ne-need.


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## Dissenter (Jul 31, 2017)

Falling Foxes said:


> Am I the best person because of my clear bias towards the INFJ female (and male for that matter)?
> 
> There is definitely an elegance to the INFJ. So long as we are talking about deities her powers would be (although not limited to) insight and the ability to understand see right into a person's soul.
> 
> ...


Thank you! *takes a bow*

Anyway, I know two INTPs and they're not at all stereotypical. They're very mischievous but quite decent nonetheless. Or at least my cousin is. The other INTP friend is a real polymath. He's very courteous towards me but I've seen him take on a few knuckleheads in a manner not entirely befitting a gentleman. Okay, now that I think about it, I'm the same except that I lack his -uhm- indefatigability. Now I miss him, lol.

P.S. Both of them are engineers.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Dissenter said:


> The difference between a female INFJ and a female ISTP is that the former is a Goddess while the latter isn't. So if you think you're a Goddess, a madonna, and a perfect manifestation of the word _lady_, you're probably an INFJ.
> 
> I kid you not.


Haha nooo I'm not a goddess or Madonna.
I'm not "that" feminine (but not that boyish either!).
At it's best, I'm an Ellen Page.:kitteh:


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

@Falling Foxes , so you suggest that I might be INTP?


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## Dissenter (Jul 31, 2017)

MissElle said:


> Haha nooo I'm not a goddess or Madonna.
> I'm not "that" feminine (but not that boyish either!).
> At it's best, I'm an Ellen Page.:kitteh:


LOL, I was referring to the Italian term _madonna_, not the celebrity. And yes, INFJ women are not feminine in the typical sense - like say an ENFP is; but rather Godlike, maternal, and composed.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Falling Foxes said:


> So are the descriptions of Ti too polarising compared to other functions?


I'm not sure. I'm deffo not the stereotypical playful and blunt Ti.
And I think my Fe is a deep but negative one (not opening up and/or not hurting people and bottling things up, even if it hurts myself!)

About Ni, I try alot, but can't understand it.
I'm not a psychic for sure.
And I love mysterious things (mysterious in a good way)!
But I have this habbit (sometimes negative) of reading between the lines and connecting one thing to another.
This can hurt my Fe alot.
(Yes I'm a cynical)

Again not sure if it's Ni.




Falling Foxes said:


> I discovered Si must be my inferior because it's what I rebel the most against, maybe that method of looking at things might help? Or maybe rebellion is just a Ne-need.


Sorry I didn't understand this part.
What do you mean by that?


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Dissenter said:


> LOL, I was referring to the Italian term _madonna_, not the celebrity. And yes, INFJ women are not feminine in the typical sense - like say an ENFP is; but rather Godlike, maternal, and composed.


Yes, I'm sometimes very supportive and protective of people I care about (my chosen family members).
Not at all in an emotional way though.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

MissElle said:


> @Falling Foxes , so you suggest that I might be INTP?


It's possible. Whilst Ne/Se focus on entirely different things they can look similar. Your shadow also sounds like a potential Si shadow whereas I have a feeling that Ni shadow would look more like paranoia of what's to come. I don't know enough about you to say that you don't use Ni or Se.

I mostly decided that my dad uses Ne, not Ni. His intuitive perceptions are branching, not conclusive and I inherited all of my Ne-like tendencies from him I'm pretty sure of. I think his inferior Fe meant that he relied on harmony in times of stress at a consequence he felt like he lost his ability to make his own life decisions.

But hey, like I implied, I'm still not sure on my dad, so if anything I say helps, I haven't the faintest but I'm invested to see what you end up typing yourself as to understand my dad better too.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

MissElle said:


> I'm not sure. I'm deffo not the stereotypical playful and blunt Ti.
> And I think my Fe is a deep but negative one (not opening up and/or not hurting people and bottling things up, even if it hurts myself!)
> 
> About Ni, I try alot, but can't understand it.
> ...


Sounds like it could be Ni, but not a dominant function.



> Sorry I didn't understand this part.
> What do you mean by that?


So, when it comes to the definitions of Si it sounds like the complete opposite of what I am which was why when it came to sensing I related more to Se than I did to Si even though after a while I came to realise that I do definitely use Si more than Se and I need Si to really balance myself out... but because it's my inferior I often associate it with weakness, I rely on Si when I'm at my lowest points so when I feel more like 'me' and in my more optimistic moments I try to run away from Si as far as possible.

The ideas of routine, stability, analysing what has happened in the past to make more reliable decisions for the future actually scare me? So I rebel against it rather than embracing it.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

The same difference there is between an INFJ and an ISTP in general.
Which is a lot.

Are you implying that there is a difference because you're a female and you might appear more "feely" than you probably are?
It's possible but still, functions are functions and I haven't detected a strong preference for Ti. Not dominant at least.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Falling Foxes said:


> Sounds like it could be Ni, but not a dominant function.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually now that I think about it, I become a mixture of Fe, Si and Ni when I'm using my potential shadow function(s).

So , when I feel terrible (my shadow), I feel betrayed by the world and so lonely and even more cynical.
I want to burst into tears but I can't (or cause I don't want to get headaches and puffy red eyes later).
I lose hope. I can't focus on my plans, and can't even see a positive future. AndI feel worthless and don't want to do positive things.
Then all my wishes, regrets, bad past memories/wounds come infront of my eyes and I start feeling sorry for myself and thinking there might be something wrong with me. I can see no good future and I lose all my motivations.

But that's a temporary feeling usually, and wont last more than a few days or weeks.

Some potential triggers ;

Conflicts, being betrayed, not being treated equally, someone close to me having a major problem or being treated in a bad way, people being rude to me, being ignored, not being helped, someone ordering me alot, someone yelling at me, generally people/social issues.
And also failure (like bad grades or in a project/plan etc).

Is my shadow Fe? Or Si? (Or Ni?)


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

jetser said:


> The same difference there is between an INFJ and an ISTP in general.
> Which is a lot.
> 
> Are you implying that there is a difference because you're a female and you might appear more "feely" than you probably are?
> It's possible but still, functions are functions and I haven't detected a strong preference for Ti. Not dominant at least.


I've "heard" there is a little bit difference between male and female members of each mbti type (or maybe it's situational).

So you think I don't have Ti as my dom function?
You also suggested that I might be INFJ (in another post).

However, I don't really understand Ni.
Yes the stereotypes say that Ni is about being a psychic, guessing or predicting correctly, etc.
But usually nothing more!!!!

And as we develop our dom function since childhood, I was trying to relate my dom and aux function to my childhood (or teens).
But I sort of couldn't.

The problem is that idk how Ni effects (my) childhood.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Sorry @Turi.
I guess we have to continue the conversation here ;





1)Having interpersonal conflict or negative energy in my environment

If it involves me or my loved ones, it would affect me. If not, then I would get a bit upset, but not that much! It wouldn't affect me.

2)Being misunderstood or undervalued.

*This would be unfair and bad.

3)Feeling trapped by too many rules or too much structure.

*depends. If the rules make sense, if they affect everyone equally, and if they don't limit me too much, then I would have no problem.
Sometimes rules take chaos away.

4)Being in situations or environments that conflict with my values.

*I would skip going. But this happens rarely. Right now, I can only think of 5 or 6 types of place I would NEVER go.



5)Being afraid of disappointing others by not being able to do what’s expected of me

*This one is terrible.


6)Feeling manipulated or betrayed

*This one would be the worst out of these.
I would question myself alot after that.


So, 6 and 5 would hurt the most.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

MissElle said:


> Sorry @Turi.
> I guess we have to continue the conversation here ;
> 
> 
> ...


How would you compare all of that, to the 'pack' you resonated most with last time?
Which group would stress you out the most?


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

@Turi
Still, the first one (in the other pack) would be the worst for me.

Yes, I would feel terrible after being manipulated or betrayed.
But who wouldn't?

So, I would say the pack I picked before this post.
That would be my worst day.


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## Turi (May 9, 2017)

MissElle said:


> @Turi
> Still, the first one (in the other pack) would be the worst for me.
> 
> Yes, I would feel terrible after being manipulated or betrayed.
> ...



The first one is stressors for the INFJ, the last one just now was INFP.
The one you related to the least was ISTP.

So, I'd do some research on INFJs and see if it's a fit - due to ISTP being the one you related to least, and it being statistically less common than INFJ preferences for a female, I would rule it out at this point and do some research to see if INFJ is a fit, seems that way, imo.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Turi said:


> The first one is stressors for the INFJ, the last one just now was INFP.
> The one you related to the least was ISTP.
> 
> So, I'd do some research on INFJs and see if it's a fit - due to ISTP being the one you related to least, and it being statistically less common than INFJ preferences for a female, I would rule it out at this point and do some research to see if INFJ is a fit, seems that way, imo.


Thanks alot for your help.
Please let me know the results.
I'm really curious about it.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

Hi. I've just read this article and I wondered if it isn't about *you*.

INFP

_"It’s important to note here that INFPs are the most prone of any personality type to mistyping as something else. Because INFPs live in a world of identity possibilities, they enjoy thinking of themselves in various different lights and are able to thoroughly convince themselves – more so than any other type – that they truly are thinkers, judgers, etc. Their extroverted intuition allows them to see a situation from various different angles and their introverted feeling creates an emotional attachment to the type they decide on. For this reason, INFPs are more prone to mistyping than any other type."

"INFPs are the least stereotypically perceptive perceivers. They tend to be quite routine-oriented and not particularly spontaneous in nature – they are open-minded and explorative in their thoughts, not their actions."_

You come off as explorative in thoughts but not necessarily in actions to me.

https://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-priebe/2015/07/heres-which-myers-briggs-type-youre-most-likely-to-mistype-as/


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Hi,


jetser said:


> INFPs are the most prone of any personality type to mistyping as something else. Because INFPs live in a world of identity possibilities, they enjoy thinking of themselves in various different lights and are able to thoroughly convince themselves – more so than any other type – that they truly are thinkers, judgers, etc.


Not sure if it's type related or not, but I can relate to this part so much!
I can see my actions/type from different dimensions and unfortunately I can't figure out which type is truly ME!

I always analyze all my thoughts and actions, relate them to type stereotypes and functions, and type myself.

Maybe it's Ne. Or INFP. Idk. But I can relate to it.



jetser said:


> Their extroverted intuition allows them to see a situation from various different angles and their introverted feeling creates an emotional attachment to the type they decide on.


So true for me!



jetser said:


> and explorative in their thoughts, not their actions.


No, I "guess" I am explorative in both thoughts and actions (I might be wrong!)

However, sometimes actions can be limited, but thoughts have no limit.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

The thing is, I can also relate to Fe.
I'm not really good with people or emotions.

But people's mood affects me, I prefer harmony.
Personal or group arguments can affect my mood in a negative way.

I sort of get my F (feelings) from the external world.

My feelings depend on people around me, the atmosphere, how others view or treat me, if others appreciate or include me, etc.



Can Fi dom people feel this way too?


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

MissElle said:


> The thing is, I can also relate to Fe.
> I'm not really good with people or emotions.
> 
> But people's mood affects me, I prefer harmony.
> ...


Yes. Fi's values can want harmony too but often not for the sake of being harmonious, it has to make sense to them what sacrifices they are making for harmony.

Other people's moods effecting you isn't Fe or Fi specific. Getting feelings from the external world doesn't make sense to me (like does that mean Fi's feelings are all made up internally? No, they are affected by events and people around them, of course) but that's no what Fe is about. It isn't about getting feelings from the external world, it's about judging values based on the external world.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Falling Foxes said:


> it's about judging values based on the external world.


So, you mean Function is about judging and how we judge people/things (and not Feelings)?

I would prefer an example, and maybe I'm wrong, but I would be Fi if it's about judging/opinion.

Sometimes my point of views and ideas are different from most people around me (the norm).
I might believe in some things that the "majority" of people (around me) would disagree with.
(And sometimes the opposite of this happens).

I "probably" get my values and ideas from my inner thoughts, not from others.
I might not express myself everywhere or openly talk about my views, especially if I think most people there would disagree with me.

But I wouldn't change my view/opinion based on people's words!

I always thought this is Ti.
As I gained these subjective views and opinions by thinking and inner reasoning.


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

MissElle said:


> So, you mean Function is about judging and how we judge people/things (and not Feelings)?


Definitely. I know, the name's a little misleading, confusing the majority of people trying to grasp what the functions are about. It's why people go on to thinking that Thinkers don't feel as strongly or don't act on emotions, when they do.



> I would prefer an example, and maybe I'm wrong, but I would be Fi if it's about judging/opinion.
> 
> Sometimes my point of views and ideas are different from most people around me (the norm).
> I might believe in some things that the "majority" of people (around me) would disagree with.
> ...


Well... I know you _just_ said you don't openly express these views publicly but if you could give an example of how you think your decisions are more Ti than Fi... that'd help.

Fi's values are created by thinking... another dangerous trigger word I guess that gets confused. Don't associate the word 'thinking' with 'thinker' or 'extraverted/introverted thinking' because feelers aren't void of inner-monologues. Everyone introspects, it's just a case of what you do that for that decides if it's Ni/Fi/Ti.

Hmm, I'm really tired, I'll try and approach this with some solid examples tomorrow. Unless someone else can chime in better.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Falling Foxes said:


> Well... I know you _just_ said you don't openly express these views publicly but if you could give an example of how you think your decisions are more Ti than Fi... that'd help.


Thanks. Yes I usually don't express myself/my ideas to people, cause I don't want to be judged, and I don't want people to feel offended or uncomfortable.

Some things might be taboo in society, but they're not to ME!
But some things might be so normal/forgivable to others; but not to ME!

I don't care about general morals, or the norms, I care about how much it bothers other people "in a real way"!

Ok, I'm going to give one example that I know is a bit more publicly accepted (than some other views of mine);

When I was younger (in my early teens), my friends and I talked about many different things.
Whenever we talked about homosexuality issues, they acted as if it's a taboo, or something really weird.
I treated it as a normal thing. And In general I would tell them that as it does not hurt or involve them, they should not even hate or make fun of lgbt ppl.

Another example?
I used to have many religious classmates.
Some of them were really really hardcore.
Am I religious? Not at all !

In general, I want to say that I usually don't get my judgement and morals or ideas from others or people around me.

But there are some things that are not forgivable to me.
Causing harm for other people, cheating, physical or mental abusing, betraying, rudeness, etc.


I tried to talk about more accepted things here. If you want me to be more specific, ask me about a subject and I will explain my views and the reasons behind them.





Falling Foxes said:


> Fi's values are created by thinking... another dangerous trigger word I guess that gets confused.


How about Ti values?


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## Falling Foxes (Oct 19, 2016)

MissElle said:


> Thanks. Yes I usually don't express myself/my ideas to people, cause I don't want to be judged, and I don't want people to feel offended or uncomfortable.
> 
> Some things might be taboo in society, but they're not to ME!
> But some things might be so normal/forgivable to others; but not to ME!
> ...


Whilst I would like to argue that "this is just common sense!" I won't go into that...

The way you justify this sounds like Fi to me. Since you do it on the ground of sympathy and emotional response. It's thoughts that have definitely gone through my mind too. Justification being, trying to imagine yourself from both the perspective of the homophobic and the LGBT+ person, that's empathy. Although it could be an ENTP using Fe.



> Another example?
> I used to have many religious classmates.
> Some of them were really really hardcore.
> Am I religious? Not at all !
> ...


That's a strong cut off. NTP would normally always see another point of view to it that will mean that their values aren't so black and white. Fi has a confident sense of what is right and what is wrong. Ti often says "it depends" on the situation, I'm not saying that Ti would condone something horrific but they are often playing devil's advocate to these things. NTPs will say they don't approve of certain things but I don't know how many would be so quick to say something is unforgivable until the situation presents itself. Something which NFPs struggle with... or at least in practice they just know whether something is right or wrong and that's not normally up for debate when their mind is set. 

Imagine a debate about morality. NFP often engage in the hopes to give their opinion and change someone's mind, but not actually receptive to another's point of view... I mean, I like to think that I can listen and absorb other's viewpoints but I'll be honest it's really difficult to challenge mine. It's shaking if I discover if I'm actually wrong, I don't deal with that well. NTPs find more joy in analysing the different perspectives and offering a "yeah, but, what about X?" they often look for contradicitions in people's arguments and point them out but not neccessarily for the sake of changing their mind but for the sake of challenging them... (I mean, I'm not saying all Ti-doms are trolls but-- a lot of trolls are Ti-doms.) If NFPs found contradictions it'd be more of a tool to say "See? I'm right."




> I tried to talk about more accepted things here. If you want me to be more specific, ask me about a subject and I will explain my views and the reasons behind them.
> 
> How about Ti values?


Yeah, Ti values are created by thinking too. Both are introspective functions that's why it's so easy to conflate them.

I always found this article useful: https://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-pr...fests-based-on-its-position-in-your-stacking/



> As a dominant function, Ti manifests as the constant identification of logical patterns that exist in ones external environment as well as a keen perception for any deviations from those patterns.
> 
> The dominant-Ti monologue: “I must figure out exactly how everything logistically works in relation to everything else.”
> 
> ...


If you are an XXTP then you should also be able to relate to these too:



> Tertiary Extroverted Feeling:
> 
> As a tertiary function, Fe manifests as the ability to pick up on the motivations and emotions of those around the user. The immature Fe user may then take advantage of those feelings by manipulating them in a way that supports his or her own ends. The mature tertiary Fe user will search for a means of incorporating the needs of others into their personal plans and actions.
> 
> ...


But look at the rest of the article, look at Fi dom/aux and Te tert/inferior. And Se v Ne.


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## jetser (Jan 6, 2016)

MissElle said:


> The thing is, I can also relate to Fe.
> I'm not really good with people or emotions.


Wait what? If you're not good with people or emotions what makes you relate to Fe?



> But people's mood affects me, I prefer harmony.


Everyone prefers harmony.



> Personal or group arguments can affect my mood in a negative way.


Either you're a very sensitive person or whatever, but this is not really a Fi vs Fe question.



> I sort of get my F (feelings) from the external world.


Same.



> My feelings depend on people around me, the atmosphere, how others view or treat me, if others appreciate or include me, etc.


Well, this is just too much - and too vague. In what way de you feel appreciated?
No one likes to be excluded from anything believe me.



> Can Fi dom people feel this way too?


Basically you've just described a normal person...so yes.


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## MissElle (Oct 1, 2017)

Falling Foxes said:


> I always found this article useful: https://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-pr...fests-based-on-its-position-in-your-stacking/
> If you are an XTXP then you should also be able to relate to these too:
> But look at the rest of the article, look at Fi dom/aux and Te tert/inferior. And Se v Ne.


I read that.
Some sentences were sort of confusing as I didn't know how much and how I can relate to them.
But I tried my best to read'em all.


I decided to give a % to each of them in each position.
These numbers are all made up by me and are not official.

Can you find anything from them?
Like a relation?


■Ne
Dom=45%
Aux=70%
Tert=90%
Inf=0%


■Ni
Dom=68%
Aux=40%
Tert=27%
Inf=0%


■Se
Dom=5%
Aux=55%
Tert=65%
Inf=67%

■Si
Dom=40%
Aux=50%
Tert=76% (nostalgia)
Inf=50%


■Te
Dom=35%
Aux=30%
Tert=80%
Inf=81%

■Ti
Dom=47%
Aux=65%
Tert=20%
Inf=60%

■Fe
Dom=50%
Aux=60%
Tert=65%
Aux=79%


■Fi
Dom=88%
Aux=70%
Tert=65%
Inf=45%


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