# Bias Free Differences between 4w3, 4w5, 6w5 and 6w7



## aquasoul (Aug 31, 2015)

*Hello PerC,*

After my seemingly routine questioning of my type, I feel like the biases of the descriptions between certain types may have distorted enneagram type. I currently consider myself as a 4w3 fix, 6w5, 9w8 tritype but I need more clarification on the wings of 4,6. I have identified myself as a 4w3 simply because I am more ambiverted, relatively positive and people centric despite the fact I have nothing in common with 3. 4w5 has always been off limits partially because I didn't fit the "sterotype", but I seem to resonate more with 5 than 3 values. Along with this I have still been questioning my fix (4 vs 6) so I'm interested in understanding the 6w5 and 6w7 typing for my fix or head type. 

I would love a bias-free descriptions of 4w3, 4w5, 6w5, 6w7. I'm a little sick of the 6 descriptions which seem to often leave out the cool duality and contractions of the 6, security seeking and rebellious, skeptical and loyal.

*Aqua*

*xx*


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

aquasoul said:


> I would love a bias-free descriptions of 4w3, 4w5, 6w5, 6w7.


What do you mean by "bias-free."


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## aquasoul (Aug 31, 2015)

enneathusiast said:


> What do you mean by "bias-free."


Without bias. Similar to the way sensors tend to get an "inferior to N" description in the MBTI, 6's tend have really negative and inaccurate descriptions based on general consensus and stereotypes. 4w3 also have a worse reputation than 4w5 which might be why there are so many more 4w5s than 4w3s on here. I mean I don't know, I would just like to make my search for the enneagram wings accurate, incorporating facts and neutral information.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

aquasoul said:


> I mean I don't know, I would just like to make my search for the enneagram wings accurate, incorporating facts and neutral information.


Well good luck. I think a lot of people would like that. I've never seen any myself. I think it's all subjective. That's the nature of personality typing.


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## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

aquasoul said:


> Without bias.


 You speak English. That's a bias. Where do you live? That's another bias. Your family's history? Another bias. There's no such thing as "bias-free" descriptions, because the fact that you have to express it in a language requires the use of bias. 

The best you can hope for is to read as many descriptions as you can and "average" them out. Or not worry about it and just go with what you do know. You'll find it in due time, why unnecessarily rush?



> Similar to the way sensors tend to get an "inferior to N" description in the MBTI, 6's tend have really negative and inaccurate descriptions based on general consensus and stereotypes.


 I studied actual sensors used in electrical circuits. My engineering professor would dock off points if you forgot to factor the "bias" or errors introduced by the measurement instruments.



> 4w3 also have a worse reputation than 4w5 which might be why there are so many more 4w5s than 4w3s on here. I mean I don't know, I would just like to make my search for the enneagram wings accurate, incorporating facts and neutral information.


 You know the concept of "significant digits" in science? If you reported a higher-resolution of information than was present and available, then it can't be accurate. 

The fact that you think you MUST have one dominant wing is inherently a bias as well. If all you're sure of is the core type, then just go with the core. There's a chance that you might have balanced wings.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

aquasoul said:


> *Hello PerC,*
> 
> After my seemingly routine questioning of my type, I feel like the biases of the descriptions between certain types may have distorted enneagram type. I currently consider myself as a 4w3 fix, 6w5, 9w8 tritype but I need more clarification on the wings of 4,6. I have identified myself as a 4w3 simply because I am more ambiverted, relatively positive and people centric despite the fact I have nothing in common with 3. 4w5 has always been off limits partially because I didn't fit the "sterotype", but I seem to resonate more with 5 than 3 values. Along with this I have still been questioning my fix (4 vs 6) so I'm interested in understanding the 6w5 and 6w7 typing for my fix or head type.
> 
> ...


I don't believe there is such a thing as a type description without bias. People describe types based on the way they subjectively experience them, and yes, enneagram authors do it, too. Just do what everybody else does and form your own conclusions based on the material you read. In a sense, there is no such thing as "the enneagram", only "so and so's version of the enneagram" as it relates to himself/herself. Good luck on your journey!


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## Rafiki (Mar 11, 2012)

Well this has been an arrantly useless thread thus far


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

aquasoul said:


> *Hello PerC,*
> 
> After my seemingly routine questioning of my type, I feel like the biases of the descriptions between certain types may have distorted enneagram type. I currently consider myself as a 4w3 fix, 6w5, 9w8 tritype but I need more clarification on the wings of 4,6. I have identified myself as a 4w3 simply because I am more ambiverted, relatively positive and people centric despite the fact I have nothing in common with 3. 4w5 has always been off limits partially because I didn't fit the "sterotype", but I seem to resonate more with 5 than 3 values. Along with this I have still been questioning my fix (4 vs 6) so I'm interested in understanding the 6w5 and 6w7 typing for my fix or head type.
> 
> ...


I'm not going to give you a description of each type, because that's what online articles (and this website's threads) are for. 

What most people mistake about 6 is thinking that they're anxious and just leaving it at that; they don't bother to delve into WHY 6's are anxious, which is the entire purpose of the Enneagram. 6ish anxiety is much more existential than the regular circumstantial anxiety all humans feel. 

6ish anxiety comes from their Holy Idea of Faith, the belief that we can have complete faith in ourselves, our peers and our environment. Obviously we realise that the world doesn't align with this at an early age, and the 6 comes to the conclusion that we can't trust anything 100%, not even ourselves. This is why I use the word _certainty _a lot with Type 6, because easily one of our biggest struggles is that we can never be certain of anything. The present and future are full of so many possibilities, often negative ones, and we don't have the faith in ourselves to get by and make the right decision. Hence why we start to put faith into external systems, people or beliefs. That, in turn, is why 6's are described as loyal; we fiercely devote ourselves to this external support system, usually not even consciously, and are quick to react to anything that threatens it. More than anything we fear being cut off from what guides us the most, and being all alone again, paralyzed by fear. Unless the 6 is very healthy, this anxiety never truly fades, because there's always something uncertain out there ready to throw us off. 

IMO, the wing often dictates how we deal with that fear. A w7 is more likely to make light of a situation, use humour as a way of covering up their anxiety, and portraying themselves as a fun, loyal, enjoyable and nice person in order to gain the trust of others, and therefore be able to lean on them for support when needed. The w5 may be more likely to retreat and find out as much as necessary about whatever is causing their anxiety, gathering enough information until they feel like they can deal with the problem. 

Of course, though, the 6 can find almost any way to deal with their anxiety, the only key point is that they look outside themselves for security. I think lots of 6's, myself included, always feel much better when there is a 'safety net' waiting for them, in case things go wrong. That might be something so simple as keeping a £20 note in your car for emergencies, keeping your best friend's phone number on speed dial when you go out at night, knowing you have someone's sofa to crash on if need be. For a more philosophical 6 it might be the guidance of a belief system, religious or otherwise. Knowing that something or someone is waiting for us when we fail and feel like we can't succeed by ourselves, is like the ultimate anxiety relief. 


I think it would be better for an actual type 4 to come in and talk about their type; I have some strong 4 characteristics but I'm far from driven by their main motivations, fears and goals. For what it's worth, since you said you relate to type 5 but find 4w5 to be off, I'm almost certain you're 6w5 over 4w5. Like I said, 6 manifests in so many different ways. You seem to have a generic understanding and even appreciation of 6 already, and it's not uncommon for them to mistype as 4s (or almost any other type really).


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

Not sure if this helps, but this website delves into the differences between Enneagram type 4 and type 6 (as, apparently, they can sometimes be tricky to parse out). Good luck*!*

The Enneagram Blogspot: New! - Misidentifying 4s vs. 6s


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

To engage or not to engage, that is the question.
Eh fuck it...

You want unbiased? Sorry don't have that.
Let me tell you a little about my bias though 

There is no type, just different fixations that you can unravel.
The more you unravel them the better you will feel about yourself and the world.
You want a profile description, yet profiles listing out static traits don't show reality.
Each fixation is a process, it can go from light to dark and back again.
Traits manifested at any point in any of the fixation-processes can be isolated and studied,
but ultimately tell very little about the person who goes trough the process.
It is like a photograph of a journey, one photo can only tell you so much about the whole journey.
You would need a series of photos, aka a film, to get more close to what the journey was like.
And even that would not capture the subjective take of any of the participants.

That is why concepts like head, heart, gut are used.
It is a top down approximation to where stuff is going on.
The desires/fears etc become the overarching themes.
In no way shape or form can you ever really flesh out the details.
Cause then you are talking about the photo again and pretending that it is the whole journey.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@aquasoul

I'm a 5w6, 584 So/Sx, ENTP (and very ambiverted, btw). I think you're showing some serious bias towards 5. You completely skip over 5 and refuse to consider the possibility you might have a 5 wing, just because you're ambiverted and people-oriented?


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## 0+n*1 (Sep 20, 2013)

I will tell you what makes me type as a 6 (maybe it would help)

Doubt

That's it. You could think everyone doubts and yes, we all do from time to time. But the doubt of sixes is more like a seemingly default state that is the product of too much thinking. Simply put, my first response to some event is to think about it. When I first came into the types I related to some types or some types resonated with me like 5 or 4, but then I thought... well, not really... well, not that much... well, not exacty... It's like there's always a but, always a missing piece of information, something that will let me fall into believing I am something I'm not.

I rarely talk and think in terms of trust and distrust, allegiance, loyalty, betrayal... But I do feel very uncertain. I don't want to fail, don't want to commit mistakes, don't want to screw up, want to have the right answer, do things the right way and I wonder what is that, how to find it, if I'm going to find it, if it can be found to begin with because maybe it doesn't exist. I know I'm inconsistent, life is inconsistent, and I still look for consistencies. That's six.


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