# "Tell Me, I Am a Man"



## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

In this thread I'd like men talk about their insecurities and see how women perceive such insecurities. Can those securities be justified and where do these insecurities come from? Mostly people are insecure for no other reason than rejection correlated to expectation. I mean, there is no logic to be found in this very process. I attribute the idea of this thread from the brilliance of @All in Twilight (Thank you) So Ladies and Gentlemen, let's discuss....


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## killemdeader (Dec 22, 2012)

I'm pretty paranoid that my romantic inexperience is going to scare women away, and I don't know how to bring it up; particularly after they know I'm interested, I'm scared to/unsure of how to transition to or show my affection physically without them acting first, or direct statements; I'm scared of putting women in uncomfortable situations if I ask them out and they aren't interested (well and little of rejection, but mostly of making them feel shitty and uncomfortable around me because of it).

I'd like to say these issues can be put to rest just by a bit of trial and error, but... I don't respond well to being clueless.


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

You are a man. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I used to be insecure about my "size", but have since come to be quite happy with it.


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## marked174 (Feb 24, 2010)

My singing voice: for some reason it is quite personal to me, and I am hesitant to show it to others.

My body: my body naturally grows a lot of hair; many girls treat this like I have a revolting disease and this makes me feel insecure about how I look.

My reputation: Because I avoid confrontation, and because my speech patterns and mannerisms are usually nice and accommodating, I often feel like people do not respect me and sometimes they try to take advantage of this; this causes some insecurities.

My actions: I am not allowed to show fear, weakness, or stupidity (see above); I must also simultaneously be sensitive to the needs and feelings of those around me; because these two interests sometimes conflict I find myself insecure about what I should do.

My romantic relationships and the future: Most girls I meet want guys who are not like me (less intellectual, more down-to-earth, more dominating, more materialistic, less talkative). I have also found that very few people are even remotely interested in making other people happy (even the ones they "like"); instead they seem to want instant gratification and relational joyrides. These observations make me very insecure about finding love (which, again, is something very personal to me).

Most of all: I am insecure because I don't know what to do about it, and feel helpless in solving these problems which are important to me. And, as we all know, men who feel helpless certainly do not deserve love, so the cycle continues.

I don't try to be so personal in these threads but you asked, so I decided to tell you how I feel. If it helps anybody learn anything or understand, then perhaps it is worth something, and not simply dumping my feelings online.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

marked174 said:


> My body: my body naturally grows a lot of hair; many girls treat this like I have a revolting disease and this makes me feel insecure about how I look.


Just wanted to make point though I don't know your age, girls don't like hair but many women do. I seen women on here say they disliked hair but then later came to appreciate it and actually prefer it and I assume thats just the age thing. Boys become men and in teens most teens arent too hairy and some are pretty hairless.
But many men in their 20's and later years really pack it on, so dont feel bad about that, theres ladies out there who prefer man fur.


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## knittigan (Sep 2, 2011)

Wellsy said:


> Just wanted to make point though I don't know your age, girls don't like hair but many women do. I seen women on here say they disliked hair but then later came to appreciate it and actually prefer it and I assume thats just the age thing. Boys become men and in teens most teens arent too hairy and some are pretty hairless.
> But many men in their 20's and later years really pack it on, so dont feel bad about that, theres ladies out there who prefer man fur.


I'll come out as one of these women. Virtually all of the things that I am attracted to about male bodies have been unattractive (revolting is a bit strong) to me at different points in my life. Hair, penises, testicles, legs... used to make me shudder and now they make me salivate.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

The King Of Dreams said:


> where do these insecurities come from? Mostly people are insecure for no other reason than rejection correlated to expectation.


 I couldn't agree more. I think it's when you desensitize yourself to the feeling of rejection and learn to manage your expectations, that you resolve insecurity w/in the self. Just a theory, I could be wrong ...

I like the topic, kudos king!


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## DarkWarrior (Sep 21, 2011)

knittigan said:


> I'll come out as one of these women. Virtually all of the things that I am attracted to about male bodies have been unattractive (revolting is a bit strong) to me at different points in my life. Hair, penises, testicles, legs... used to make me shudder and now they make me salivate.


Horrible imagery, a woman seeing a penis and such and begin salivating , the mental image of a woman drooling over seeing man stuff is horrifying.

On topic, I'm insecure about my Man junk. It's on the small side, I mean it isn't THAT small but it certainly isn't average. I don't worry about it much anymore now that I have a wonderful girlfriend who doesn't give a damn about that.


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

josue0098 said:


> You are a man. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> I used to be insecure about my "size", but have since come to be quite happy with it.


I found your invisible laugher (Scrollover his entire post to find it, too) > What do I win? 
This is fun^.^


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Fern said:


> I found your invisible laugher (Scrollover his entire post to find it, too) > What do I win?
> This is fun^.^


do you like hugs?


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## RetroVortex (Aug 14, 2012)

Do you guys think I should flirt more? Pack on the charm?

I think I really struggle to get women to notice me really. 
I can't seem to approach any women at all, I just freak out at the concept of it all.
(I guess I never really had many female friends, especially any close ones, and I never had any sisters or cousins to learn from, so its all seems really unknown and foreign to me, especially from a female perspective)

I guess I struggle to see myself as something women would want. 
I'm not expecting a woman approaching me to be the "cure-all Elixir", but it would put me in the decision making position for once, and ironically enough, there would be a good chance I'd say yes. (Unless I didn't find anything attractive about her, but my standards aren't huge per se, I mean I find most women on here attractive to some degree, and I can say the same for real life too, but then I have to double check myself, do I know anything about this person? How does she see me? I then just project my doubt and self-loathing onto this person and I force myself back into my shell)

I probably need to show my personality more, to be more bold about me. I'm not ashamed or anything, it's just that most people don't connect with me, so I rarely bother to show my more passionate side, or my more goofy side.

Only when I'm with my best friend do I really act like myself. 
Heh, I bet it must look so odd to most people, seeing two nerdy guys nattering away about video games and movies and stuff.
i have a great time with him, but lately I can't help but seek for a connection even more special then that. 

...nature's definitely not on my side on this one... -_-


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

@The King Of Dreams

In response/accordance with title:

You're a man! 

Fuck that, you're THE Man. 

:tongue:





The King Of Dreams said:


> In this thread I'd like men talk about their insecurities and see how women perceive such insecurities. Can those securities be justified and where do these insecurities come from? Mostly people are insecure for no other reason than rejection correlated to expectation. I mean, there is no logic to be found in this very process. I attribute the idea of this thread from the brilliance of @_All in Twilight_ (Thank you) So Ladies and Gentlemen, let's discuss....


So, does the thread starter care to partake in the thread he created?


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

​oops...


josue0098 said:


> You are a man. HA
> 
> HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

josue0098 said:


> do you like hugs?


Yesh :>


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## Death Persuades (Feb 17, 2012)

Fern said:


> Yesh :>


*Super mega fluffy hug!!!!!* :kitteh:


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

josue0098 said:


> *Super mega fluffy hug!!!!!* :kitteh:


*Ribs crack* Thank you! ^__^


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## L (Aug 12, 2011)

Mostly this:



killemdeader said:


> I'm pretty paranoid that my romantic inexperience is going to scare women away, and I don't know how to bring it up; particularly after they know I'm interested, I'm scared to/unsure of how to transition to or show my affection physically without them acting first, or direct statements; I'm scared of putting women in uncomfortable situations if I ask them out and they aren't interested (well and little of rejection, but mostly of making them feel shitty and uncomfortable around me because of it).
> 
> I'd like to say these issues can be put to rest just by a bit of trial and error, but... I don't respond well to being clueless.


And a few other nice little factoids:

I'm not entirely sure how to ask for things that I want, it's difficult for me to ask for something for fear of burdening the other person or possibly even rejection. It makes everything seem awkward and uncomfortable. 

I have deep trust issues. 

I like certain intellectual things and the fact that I haven't ever found anyone to talk to about them for so long, and the fact that they were even put down sometimes has made me feel insecure about my intelligence so I mask it with stupid humor... and people seem to love my humor so I never got around to being intellectual with anyone in my life.

If a woman were to get close to me she would find that I'm not really masculine but actually like a few things that are considered feminine. 

I'm afraid to show the complete 'me' to anyone. People only get so deep as to my outside protective humor. 

Probably other things that I'm forgetting...


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

JaySH said:


> @The King Of Dreams
> 
> In response/accordance with title:
> 
> ...


Yeah, well, I have self esteem issues and so that is some of my insecurity. I have to work on it. Somehow I think enneagram comes to play in this as well. I'd like to see how others think of this.


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

L said:


> Mostly this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, man, you sound a lot like me. I appreciate your contribution roud:


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

@knittigan and @Ningsta Kitty thanks to you ladies for your perspective. I think this helps us in knowing what you think from a woman's point of view.
@killemdeader @DarkWarrior @RetroVortex @Wellsy @marked174 @josue0098 @L @JaySH @Fern

I thank you gentlemen for your response. Honestly I have to admit, one of my issues is in the form of physical affection. You see, as many people know, I'm a overly affectionate person. So, I hide it because I don't want to freak others out. If I hug guys a lot, then they'll think I'm weird or I "want them". If I hug women a lot then they'll think I'm coming on to them. So I really can't win. I feel like I should just go to a Wal-Mart or Target and buy a body pillow and be alone. When it comes to physical affection I'm pretty gender-neutral so I'm not bothered. But guys especially don't even like to sit next to each other in a theater, let alone giving a bro-hug. Some guys now only give half-hugs or fist bumps.... for fear of looking "gay". Honestly there's nothing gay about it.

Anyway, my appearance is another source of insecurity for me. I feel unattractive, undesirable and unwanted. I feel like that a lot. 

Also, I am not the type to assert myself unless one of my values get stepped on and then my gigantic Te will come out and "regulate". 

So that's just some of my insecurities.


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## Synched (Dec 19, 2012)

I really wanted to add something of value here, but I can't think of anything useful to say apart from this: 

I fear that I will stumble over my words, make weird remarks and scare them off / embarrass myself. I think I may suffer from a mild form of social anxiety as well.


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## android654 (Jan 19, 2010)

knittigan said:


> *Hair, penises, testicles, legs... used to make me shudder and now they make me salivate.*


Oh my...


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

The King Of Dreams said:


> @_knittigan_ and @_Ningsta Kitty_ thanks to you ladies for your perspective. I think this helps us in knowing what you think from a woman's point of view.
> @_killemdeader_ @_DarkWarrior_ @_RetroVortex_ @_Wellsy_ @_marked174_ @_josue0098_ @L @_JaySH_ @_Fern_
> 
> I thank you gentlemen for your response. Honestly I have to admit, one of my issues is in the form of physical affection. You see, as many people know, I'm a overly affectionate person. So, I hide it because I don't want to freak others out. If I hug guys a lot, then they'll think I'm weird or I "want them". If I hug women a lot then they'll think I'm coming on to them. So I really can't win. I feel like I should just go to a Wal-Mart or Target and buy a body pillow and be alone. When it comes to physical affection I'm pretty gender-neutral so I'm not bothered. But guys especially don't even like to sit next to each other in a theater, let alone giving a bro-hug. Some guys now only give half-hugs or fist bumps.... for fear of looking "gay". Honestly there's nothing gay about it.
> ...


Thanks for the thanks but,I owe a better response than I've given...especially since I called you out to do so. I'll be on later this afternoon....

before going, @_The King Of Dreams_, remember, if you feel the way you do on affection, so do some others. I hug a lot of people...they are often "half hugs" with a double back pat when they're with men but, still a hug. I don't think it's viewed as negatively as you may think. Some people are just not as affectionate and that's ok...people are different. You may be reading into people's responses more than needed and seeing something not there. Some people are just caught off guard...not against affection. And,you're a big dude so, it may catch them by surprise if they haven't realized you're a big teddy bear...but, that doesn't mean they're against it. 


Just my $.01 sense...the other half to come later, my friend!


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

JaySH said:


> Just my $.01 sense...the other half to come later, my friend!


I look forward to it!


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

Synched said:


> I really wanted to add something of value here, but I can't think of anything useful to say apart from this:
> 
> I fear that I will stumble over my words, make weird remarks and scare them off / embarrass myself. I think I may suffer from a mild form of social anxiety as well.


Aw man. Well, I appreciate your chiming in this thread. I really appreciate it. You're a brave soul.


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## justmeandmyguitar (Aug 16, 2012)

I think someone mentioned it earlier but:

I just cannot imagine anyone looking at me and thinking _'I want him!!'. 

_Don't ask me why? Cue the New Years Resolution - time to stand up and be counted - why? - because I'm worth it!!!!!!

Happy New Year All!x


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## Infermiera (Mar 2, 2012)

@The King Of Dreams this is a great thread.

And to all the men who were brave enough to reveal their insecurities. I'm proud of you guys!!

I don't know about other girls but for me, a man who's brave enough to reveal his vulnerability is way more appealing than a man who hides behind false bravado.


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## jinjaNinja (Dec 31, 2012)

It sounds messed up and it probably is, but I don't like men that intimidate me, so I kind of gravitate towards shy guys. There are such phrases in my vocabulary as "too good-looking" and "too outgoing." I think there's this thing about women such as myself who love being the ones to show a timid and self-conscious guy how awesome he is. (I call it the Reverse-Knight in Shining Armor complex.) Of course it works better in theory; my ex-boyfriend could not be convinced, and he quickly became obnoxious.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Infermiera said:


> I don't know about other girls but for me, a man who's brave enough to reveal his vulnerability is way more appealing than a man who hides behind false bravado.


I agree. I mean, there's a difference between "whining about things" and just behind honest about what you are feeling. Not only is the latter helpful, but it also helps me connect with someone -- it's real and human and brave and honest. I could not really be interested in a stoic guy who keeps everything locked up tight, I could not really connect.

What is interesting is that some of the general things are things that I feel too as a woman. (Such as feeling insecure over my body, or being afraid I will not know what to say or do and thus embarrass myself.) To hear some guys discuss it as potential issues they share actually is a bit of a relief, since it is a human thing and not necessarily means something is "wrong" with us.


... and I am laughing over the "salivating" remark because I just literally got done watching this movie called "Killer Joe" and the fried chicken scene. Oh wow. Too many reverbs on that comment.




killemdeader said:


> I'm pretty paranoid that my romantic inexperience is going to scare women away, and I don't know how to bring it up; particularly after they know I'm interested, I'm scared to/unsure of how to transition to or show my affection physically without them acting first, or direct statements; I'm scared of putting women in uncomfortable situations if I ask them out and they aren't interested (well and little of rejection, but mostly of making them feel shitty and uncomfortable around me because of it).





killemdeader said:


> I'd like to say these issues can be put to rest just by a bit of trial and error, but... I don't respond well to being clueless.


Not knowing what to do can feel awkward, and I know as someone who likes to feel competent, I don't enjoy going into completely new situations with having some idea of what to do.

Women are all different, so it's hard to have a rule of thumb, but if a guy said, "I like you but I've never done this before, and I just want to make you happy," well, I could never be upset with that personally, and we would figure it out together. I mean, if he didn't learn at all or care, that is one thing, but someone who is inexperienced is not really an issue long-term.


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

First and foremost, you need to get some self-esteem. Whatever it takes. If you do not have the self-esteem to enjoy your OWN company, then of course the thought of rejection from a woman will frighten you which is UNATTRACTIVE. Its okay to have an insecurity, but it is not okay to have low self-value. If you do not value yourself, you are insane to expect anyone else can.

Secondly, women are human beings. Why do we love to go up to cute animals and puppies, but when we make contact with a fellow HUMAN BEING we are scared. That is your brother, your sister. You are of the same species. (I think this would create peace on earth if everyone just "got" this).

Okay, most people don't connect with you. That doesn't mean stop being yourself. Seriously. WHen you get to the point that you simply do not care if other people get you or not, you'll feel more confident about being yourself.

P.S. In order to get more confidence in approaching women you MUST constantly approach women. Like practice. You HAVE to practice. It will never just come to you. Even when you finally value yourself very highly, you have to PRACTICE.



RetroVortex said:


> Do you guys think I should flirt more? Pack on the charm?
> 
> I think I really struggle to get women to notice me really.
> I can't seem to approach any women at all, I just freak out at the concept of it all.
> ...


I'd like to get a little deeper... being yourself is not just simply saying whatever you want to say or doing whatever you want to do. It also involves
* the "energy/aura/vibe" you put out
* the way you RESPOND to people
* the way you respond to people's response to YOU

Something else to chew on. @RetroVortex My perception of this insecurity as a woman is that you are a typical guy. Not unusual. However, I'm not a woman who is seeking "the usual".



> Women are all different, so it's hard to have a rule of thumb, but if a guy said, "I like you but I've never done this before, and I just want to make you happy," well, I could never be upset with that personally, and we would figure it out together. I mean, if he didn't learn at all or care, that is one thing, but someone who is inexperienced is not really an issue long-term.


DISAGREE -- this will work as long as he knows the girl is ALREADY attracted to him. If she's unsure about him or doesn't even know about him, this is sabotage. She may not even give him a chance. First of all, they're jumping into the serious matters of sex too quickly. It's like chatting about STDs on the first date...

Your inexperience with sex should not keep a man from pursuing women. When/If he gets to the time for sex, do the best you can. Listen to her and do not ask her "does that feel good?" (its annoying because its as if you are constantly seeking approval like a little kid). Tell her to tell you what she wants (and you tell her "I like when you do that" etc). You guide her and you have to make her guide you.

And you HAVE to respond well being clueless. You HAVE to get comfortable with "not knowing". Not just for women, but for your LIFE FULFILLMENT!
@killemdeader, my perception of your insecurity is that you are weak or immature. As a woman, it is unattractive to me. But I'm imagining if you and I were in the situation and you told it to me, I would tell you what I just told you here. Almost exactly. And I would give it a shot with you in hopes that you use advice to make it no longer a problem (what I mean by this is that you no longer PERCEIVE it as a problem and get over it). If it continued to be a problem, I wouldn't give you a second chance.
@justmeandmyguitar you are probably right. Its not like you have boutiful bosoms and a bodacious ass as we women have that will instantly attract some man somewhere's eyes. For the most part, unless you are a dominant man, a stylish man or a girl's "type" she won't look at you until you make yourself noticed. This is normal. This is not cause for low-self-esteem. Also -- consider that you actually MIGHT be someone's "type". Also -- consider that someone who KNOWS your personality may be attracted to that. Also -- consider that you don't HAVE to grab someone's attention when you walk through the door for them to find you attractive!


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

marked174 said:


> My singing voice: for some reason it is quite personal to me, and I am hesitant to show it to others.


Join the club! I feel the same way about my singing voice too. I have been told that I can in fact sing, but it's means so much to me for some reason, that no one gets to hear it. 

I don't know how this helps, but just to let you know you aren't alone with this.





marked174 said:


> My body: my body naturally grows a lot of hair; many girls treat this like I have a revolting disease and this makes me feel insecure about how I look.


I won't say that I am attracted to hair, but neither am I not attracted to men who are hairy. This has never been a deciding factor whether I find a man attractive or not.


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

@marked174 - No one cares about your singing, period.
Some girls like hair, some girls don't. Just be thankful you're not a woman with that hair. If it bothers you, you can always wax/nair. Its social suicide in the US but in my home country no one cares lol. I knew a man who had hairy arms. They were hairier than most, but they weren't like gorrilla arms. Anyway, I didn't even notice. Did not care at all, actually. I saw it as.... normal. Just his body has more hair. Didn't even register in my brain. ANd I don't even think it had to do with my culture -- I was pretty much in an American mindset at that place. Where as my bf (at that time) and another lady would make fun of him calling him "monkey arms". I just said "What are you, 5 years old???" So it really just depends on the person, their maturity level, what they THINK about on a regular basis (They are the type of people who make fun of anything to feel less stressed/bored), and the culture they are from. But the fact that he just didn't care that he had hairy arms and he cared more about his dreams and goals and achieving them made him the kind of person we still spent time with.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

dottywine said:


> DISAGREE -- this will work as long as he knows the girl is ALREADY attracted to him. If she's unsure about him or doesn't even know about him, this is sabotage. She may not even give him a chance. First of all, they're jumping into the serious matters of sex too quickly. It's like chatting about STDs on the first date...


First of all, it's why I said, "it's hard to create a rule of thumb, so this is how *I* feel about it." I wasn't speaking for everyone else.

Second of all, I wasn't thinking in terms of a first pickup, nor was I thinking about sex. I was thinking about relationship. I'm not sure why you are dragging sex into it. Yes, obviously, if the relationship proceeds, then sex becomes an issue and needs to be taken care of as its own issue. But I did not get the impression this guy was talking about "sex" immediately, he was talking about simply making a connection with someone he was already on speaking terms with.

Third of all, stop speaking for everyone else. Your entire post is trying to lay down definite rules that project how you feel on others. Yes, you feel strongly. That's simply how you feel. Stop speaking for me and telling me how I should feel.


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## jinjaNinja (Dec 31, 2012)

dottywine said:


> @marked174 - No one cares about your singing, period.
> Some girls like hair, some girls don't. Just be thankful you're not a woman with that hair. If it bothers you, you can always wax/nair. Its social suicide in the US but in my home country no one cares lol. I knew a man who had hairy arms. They were hairier than most, but they weren't like gorrilla arms. Anyway, I didn't even notice. Did not care at all, actually. I saw it as.... normal. Just his body has more hair. Didn't even register in my brain. ANd I don't even think it had to do with my culture -- I was pretty much in an American mindset at that place. Where as my bf (at that time) and another lady would make fun of him calling him "monkey arms". I just said "What are you, 5 years old???" So it really just depends on the person, their maturity level, what they THINK about on a regular basis (They are the type of people who make fun of anything to feel less stressed/bored), and the culture they are from. But the fact that he just didn't care that he had hairy arms and he cared more about his dreams and goals and achieving them made him the kind of person we still spent time with.


I can definitely vouch as a red-blooded American girl that I love men with lots 'o hair.


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

Jennywocky said:


> First of all, it's why I said, "it's hard to create a rule of thumb, so this is how *I* feel about it." I wasn't speaking for everyone else.
> 
> Second of all, I wasn't thinking in terms of a first pickup, nor was I thinking about sex. I was thinking about relationship. I'm not sure why you are dragging sex into it. Yes, obviously, if the relationship proceeds, then sex becomes an issue and needs to be taken care of as its own issue. But I did not get the impression this guy was talking about "sex" immediately, he was talking about simply making a connection with someone he was already on speaking terms with.
> 
> Third of all, stop speaking for everyone else. Your entire post is trying to lay down definite rules that project how you feel on others. Yes, you feel strongly. That's simply how you feel. Stop speaking for me and telling me how I should feel.


Nah, not speaking for everyone else at all. Its MY post with MY name on it. My opinion and MY advice. I think its pretty obvious that not everyone agrees with me, otherwise everyone would say the same thing I said. I'm speaking from experience and from what I've learned from many guys who used to be in the same predicament. I hoped I made it clear in my post that my perception of the guy is MY perception. I mean, I think I said that... lol. Never mentioned anything about how you ought to feel about anything. The post has nothing to do with you other than I disagreed with your approach and gave me a chance to discuss my point.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

I know this might sound trite but ... I was thinking about this issue so posed a question here: http://personalitycafe.com/sex-relationships/124962-im-man-ask-me-anything.html and I was thinking about this answer for bit this morning:


downsowf said:


> I think there will always be men attracted to insecurity. This is how I see it though: insecure women are vulnerable. Vulnerability attracts opportunists and predators. Therefore, insecure women will attract predators and dirtbags. Look at that amazing logic.


 and then I was thinking, reflecting on me and how I see "insecurity" as who I am now (because I authentically feel I'm a pretty secure person) I was thinking of my awareness of being vulnerabl. Just that I don't care. I'm used to it. It doesn't matter. Because the logic is this: I feel vulnerable as a "secure" person, and people who are insecure are insecure because they don't want to feel vulnerable - right - because that is what insecurity is. a coping mechanism so you don't feel vulnerable. soooo essentially, (and here is the "trite" part) fear is nothing but fear itself. If you are afraid of being vulnerable you are "insecure" as a natural consequence; illogical. Because you are gonna feel vulnerable as a secure person the same as you would as an insecure person. So it's almost a matter of choice really. I think being "secure" is a matter of just not giving a shit. I know who I am and like me, I get better at being me every single year (not daily. because on a daily basis I have no idea what I'm doing ). It's getting yourself desensitized to the uncomfortable feeling of whatever it is you don't like, are afraid of or whatever.

Note: none of this is coming out right. I have no idea what I'm saying. 
Don't ask why my mind wastes time thinking about this. 



sorry. there is no point to this post :mellow:

:tongue:


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## dottywine (Feb 7, 2011)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> I know this might sound trite but ... I was thinking about this issue so posed a question here: http://personalitycafe.com/sex-relationships/124962-im-man-ask-me-anything.html and I was thinking about this answer for bit this morning:
> and then I was thinking, reflecting on me and how I see "insecurity" as who I am now (because I authentically feel I'm a pretty secure person) I was thinking of my awareness of being vulnerabl. Just that I don't care. I'm used to it. It doesn't matter. Because the logic is this: I feel vulnerable as a "secure" person, and people who are insecure are insecure because they don't want to feel vulnerable - right - because that is what insecurity is. a coping mechanism so you don't feel vulnerable. soooo essentially, (and here is the "trite" part) fear is nothing but fear itself. If you are afraid of being vulnerable you are "insecure" as a natural consequence; illogical. Because you are gonna feel vulnerable as a secure person the same as you would as an insecure person. So it's almost a matter of choice really. I think being "secure" is a matter of just not giving a shit. I know who I am and like me, I get better at being me every single year (not daily. because on a daily basis I have no idea what I'm doing ). It's getting yourself desensitized to the uncomfortable feeling of whatever it is you don't like, are afraid of or whatever.
> 
> Note: none of this is coming out right. I have no idea what I'm saying.
> ...


That's legit and I wish more people (not just men) would see insecurity this way. There is no way to ever remove all insecurity from your mind. I mean... well... Okay maybe go on some meditation retreat I dunno. But I think the key here that I've learn from the most successful people I look up to is to feel insecure and not care, just as you say. You're insecure, so what? I think it makes for a mature person to be insecure and not let insecurity stop them from being themselves, pursuing goals, etc. Very good point. The ability to be objective about your insecurity lends you to be vulnerable about it when you need to be, too


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

dottywine said:


> That's legit and I wish more people (not just men) would see insecurity this way. There is no way to ever remove all insecurity from your mind. I mean... well... Okay maybe go on some meditation retreat I dunno. But I think the key here that I've learn from the most successful people I look up to is to feel insecure and not care, just as you say. You're insecure, so what? I think it makes for a mature person to be insecure and not let insecurity stop them from being themselves, pursuing goals, etc. Very good point. The ability to be objective about your insecurity lends you to be vulnerable about it when you need to be, too


But that would be possible if everyone thought the same way you did... Some people are also at different points in their life. So some are still learning what you already learned. Insecurity is a product of imperfection. However, I do feel that it can be improved upon. I think I'm saying what you're saying..... *bangs head on table*


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## downsowf (Sep 12, 2011)

Well I was simply making a general deduction; not an individualized assessment. 



Ningsta Kitty said:


> I know this might sound trite but ... I was thinking about this issue so posed a question here: http://personalitycafe.com/sex-relationships/124962-im-man-ask-me-anything.html and I was thinking about this answer for bit this morning:
> and then I was thinking, reflecting on me and how I see "insecurity" as who I am now (because I authentically feel I'm a pretty secure person) I was thinking of my awareness of being vulnerabl. Just that I don't care. I'm used to it. It doesn't matter. Because the logic is this: I feel vulnerable as a "secure" person, and people who are insecure are insecure because they don't want to feel vulnerable - right - because that is what insecurity is. a coping mechanism so you don't feel vulnerable. soooo essentially, (and here is the "trite" part) fear is nothing but fear itself. If you are afraid of being vulnerable you are "insecure" as a natural consequence; illogical. Because you are gonna feel vulnerable as a secure person the same as you would as an insecure person. So it's almost a matter of choice really. I think being "secure" is a matter of just not giving a shit. I know who I am and like me, I get better at being me every single year (not daily. because on a daily basis I have no idea what I'm doing ). It's getting yourself desensitized to the uncomfortable feeling of whatever it is you don't like, are afraid of or whatever.
> 
> Note: none of this is coming out right. I have no idea what I'm saying.
> ...


Having vulnerabilities is universal; overcoming vulnerabilities is not. I don't think being "secure" is a matter of not giving a shit. Being secure essentially has to do with possessing an inherent and sometimes learned self-worth insofar as the self-worth is not dependent on the affirmation and reliance on others. Thus people who possess self-worth through their own personal modes are less likely to fall prey to predators who might exploit those who find little self-worth within themselves for the sake of seeking affirmation in order to feel secure.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

The King Of Dreams said:


> But that would be possible if everyone thought the same way you did... Some people are also at different points in their life. So some are still learning what you already learned. Insecurity is a product of imperfection. However, I do feel that it can be improved upon. I think I'm saying what you're saying..... *bangs head on table*


I think of it as a natural process in a way. Of growing on a sub conscious or spiritual level. Little little kids have to get their hair washed. Whether they like it or not. And often times, they don't like the feeling of water poured over their head to wash out the shampoo. So the mom or dad might fold a towel neatly and the kid presses the towel over their eyes. After time the kid is not as afraid and might just squeeze their eyes shut super tight. then after more time they learn to wash their own hair and have more control over the process and so they practice and get used to rinsing the hair with their eyes shut (not squeezed super tight). I think emotions(uncomfortable feelings/vulnerability/fear) need to wash over you, whether you like it or not. So people have to learn to let those feelings wash over you, and wash away). so whether you hate your smile/teeth/hair/shape/job/your past/people in your life - there has to be the you that's the emotional grown up, and does things themselves - either change it, if you can't change it, accept it. 

Whoa. Dude. 
All this rambling has led me to realize that the serenity prayer = inner security(emotional independence) :tongue:


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

downsowf said:


> Well I was simply making a general deduction; not an individualized assessment.
> 
> 
> 
> Having vulnerabilities is universal; overcoming vulnerabilities is not. I don't think being "secure" is a matter of not giving a shit. Being secure essentially has to do with possessing an inherent and sometimes learned self-worth insofar as the self-worth is not dependent on the affirmation and reliance on others. Thus people who possess self-worth through their own personal modes are less likely to fall prey to predators who might exploit those who find little self-worth within themselves for the sake of seeking affirmation in order to feel secure.


Okay, maybe not giving a shit wasn't the right phrase. More so, it's my job. It's not anyone elses. 
And I like me so I take it to be my job to feel better. And things that are beyond my control are, whatever ... 

so your post is right. *nods* 

essentially, if you think you have self worth you either change it or accept it. 

Like I said ... the serenity prayer  *points below to previous post*


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

I vote this thread turn into a massive hippie cuddle puddle minus the ganja


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## downsowf (Sep 12, 2011)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> I vote this thread turn into a massive hippie cuddle puddle minus the ganja


I was hoping for a debate


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

downsowf said:


> I was hoping for a debate


NOT TODAY, POOKIE! LOL

Seriously though, I'm not really trying to debate.... Just discuss.

My fear is being overconfident and arrogant. I don't want to stick my nose up in the air and I just want to remain humble. But I have to find the right balance. I can keep having a low self esteem. It kills attraction and it kills the person as well.


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## HonestAndTrue (Oct 25, 2012)

dottywine said:


> It's like chatting about STDs on the first date...





downsowf said:


> I was hoping for a debate


So, how long do you wait to talk about the big stuff? Do they see marriage in their future? Do they have or want kids? What is their religion and political leanings? Have they never been married or divorced multiple times? Are they legally allowed to leave the state or country? Any warrants out for their arrest? Etc.

If you don't talk about it on the first date, saving it for the fifth or tenth date, and now you may already have invested weeks or months into the relationship only to find there's a deal breaker. Maybe not even waiting till the tenth date, and not all of this ground can necessarily be covered on the first date, but why not cover some of it?

I know some women are fine with this. Others though are like "Woah, way too fast, I just want to get to know you first." Well, this is getting to know me. This is the kind of guy I am, this is what I'm looking for, and what I'm after for a possible future. If we're not in agreement today and there's no foreseeable way we'll be in agreement in the future why don't we learn that as soon as possible and not waste each others' time?

And say weeks, months, hopefully not years, finally the questions and answers come out after you may have already grown close and even fallen for each other. Then you have to decide between something always standing between you, possibly living with regret for the rest of your life, or the pain of ripping apart from each other and additional time for each of you to be able to heal before you're ready to look again for the next person.

It just seems like so much wasted time, pain, heart-ache, and additional baggage to not just ask on the first date. Oh, you have herpes? Now I know. And we can go on from there.

Does it have to be such a dog and pony show?


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

HonestAndTrue said:


> So, how long do you wait to talk about the big stuff? Do they see marriage in their future? Do they have or want kids? What is their religion and political leanings? Have they never been married or divorced multiple times? Are they legally allowed to leave the state or country? Any warrants out for their arrest? Etc.
> 
> If you don't talk about it on the first date, saving it for the fifth or tenth date, and now you may already have invested weeks or months into the relationship only to find there's a deal breaker. Maybe not even waiting till the tenth date, and not all of this ground can necessarily be covered on the first date, but why not cover some of it?
> 
> ...


That is why I'm a firm believer in being friends first. I want to be close friends and then if she is right for me then we'll date. If we are compatible in ALL areas then I'll propose and hope she'll say "Yes".


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

Ningsta Kitty said:


> I vote this thread turn into a massive hippie cuddle puddle minus the ganja



You had me til "......minus the ganja":tongue:


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

HonestAndTrue said:


> It just seems like so much wasted time, pain, heart-ache, and additional baggage to not just ask on the first date. Oh, you have herpes? Now I know. And we can go on from there.
> 
> Does it have to be such a dog and pony show?


AS an older dater, I would say I've found this approach more common outside the boundaries of youth. At this point, for example, I have a much better idea what I want, what I will and won't settle for, and don't want to waste time and energy and heartache, and I see that in the guys too. We have some experience girding our ideas, and know what will and won't probably pan out for us individually.

Then again, you had just better be sure that list is WELL thought-out because you don't want to exclude someone on a technicality who, if you had continued with the relationship, might have been an excellent match in the end and the issue that you thought was so big might not have really been enough to break the deal. 

I don't really find cut-and-dried answers to this question, I still tend to play things by ear.

At this point, though, I am generally finding I do not like the meat market. I will likely do better joining clubs and groups that I enjoy, meeting people who I have common interests and personality with, and letting love grow out of that. By the time anything becomes "romantic," I would have already known a lot about him.


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

So...my insecurities:

My biggest insecurity would have to be my receding hairline. Even that I don't let bother me too much....I brush it off with jokingly cocky comments such as "I make balding look good".

I am slightly insecure about smoking. More the lack of willpower that I possess but have not used to change it. It makes me feel weak. 

When I was younger I was insecure about the size of my package. I've come to learn I'm not small...at all, but, when the only exposure for comparisons is 10"+ cocks in pornos...well, you begin to think that's what women are expecting. 

I often had trouble asking a women for her number...I don't know why. Easy question yet there was something so awkward about it. Talking never was an issue for me...it was just that step. I've realized now that some will say yes...others will say no but...the only way to find out which it is is...to ask. I actually gained a lot of insight when I was bitter and just didn't give a fuck. It was so much easier With that attitude...but, it caught up with me because I'm not that person. Fortunately, I learned from that time.

Insecurities should be looked at as scabbed wounds. The more we focus on them negatively, the more it's like picking at a scab, not allowing ourselves to heal. If we choose to see it positively, and focus on it a more limited amount, we allow it to heal. Yes there'll be a scar but,,this is merely the lesson learned.

i need a nap. I may edit this later but wanted to post now.


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## RetroVortex (Aug 14, 2012)

Heh. I've been thinking about finding some sort of group or club to interact with. Shame the Magic the Gathering stuff and the DnD stuff don't really attract the fairer gender! XD

(to be honest though, I'm always a Gamer, and it's what I go back to all the time! XD)


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## HonestAndTrue (Oct 25, 2012)

RetroVortex said:


> Heh. I've been thinking about finding some sort of group or club to interact with. Shame the Magic the Gathering stuff and the DnD stuff don't really attract the fairer gender! XD
> 
> (to be honest though, I'm always a Gamer, and it's what I go back to all the time! XD)


Let's just say it doesn't attract 99.9 (how many times does it repeat) percent of women. But hey, over the years I put over $500 into it and played local tournament matches. Hey, there are some rare women out there:


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

Hey @JaySH thanks for your post. I think it took real big brass ones to do that. Thank you. 

One of my other insecurities was my face. I thought it was undesirable and so I felt ugly and I didn't think people considered me attractive.


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## killemdeader (Dec 22, 2012)

dottywine said:


> @_killemdeader_, my perception of your insecurity is that you are weak or immature. As a woman, it is unattractive to me. But I'm imagining if you and I were in the situation and you told it to me, I would tell you what I just told you here. Almost exactly. And I would give it a shot with you in hopes that you use advice to make it no longer a problem (what I mean by this is that you no longer PERCEIVE it as a problem and get over it). If it continued to be a problem, I wouldn't give you a second chance.


Yep, that's pretty much exactly my problem, I'm not hardnosed and I definitely am immature when it comes to romantic relationships. I'm perfectly aware of it. Is the only way to change that to become a more aggressive AND still immature guy, and get experience that way until I'm more seasoned and experienced? Because I definitely do not want to be that "creepy" guy, but it sounds like there isn't really another way to go about getting experience without the possibility of coming of as a creeper.


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## Yardiff Bey (Jun 5, 2011)

Interesting topic. Some things which I have felt insecure about in the past (and some that I still feel somewhat insecure about, and how I cope with them):

When younger, my penis size. Everyone was going go on and on about guys with huge penises and I didn't know what the normal size for one was - so thought that I was probably smallish. It was later that I found out that I'm on the somewhat higher side of the bell-curve for length and about normal for circumference.

Shyness! Occasionally these days I lapse into this again. It's kind of my ISTJ natural state, coupled with my 9w1 enneagram, neh.

My plain/ugly mug - which in retrospect was fucking stupid because a couple of the real hot girls in high-school chased me. It's not unusual now for a cute/hot girl to enjoy my company.

Originally I had *huge* self-esteem issues. This was a combination of natural shyness plus some nasty put-down rejections (in the form of manipulative come-on-boy-I-like-you followed by rejection) which fucked with my emotions. Nasty bitches a couple of those were. Time and some effort on the part of some better-looking and more pleasant girls has healed that, though sometimes it can pop out when I'm drop-dead tired.

I project a low-key arrogance these days that I sometimes have self-issues about. I tend to have a lot more arrogance than some girls (particularly the shyer ones) like. While I'm sad for them, since I'm not really wanting to push them away - and *I really like* the shyer types of girls - I'd rather be arrogant than have some types think that they can push me around with impunity. I will admit in this forum that this is one of the few things that can make me tear up on occasion (in private): that I push away the types of girls who I really like with the shell that helps protect me from being messed around by the types of girls that I'm not particularly interested in.

My experimental sexual habits. I have actually said to a woman's face: "I worry that you may not be able to handle me." She agreed, too. This is a huge worry for me, one that causes me to *not* hit on/ask out the types of girls that I really like: the shy ones. *sigh*

One last thing, over my years I've had girls giving off come-hither signals of various types - and then rejecting me. (See the self-esteem issues above.) To the point where a woman who wants me has to give off a lot of different signals before I will believe them, or she has to be very out-there and overt. Even those I am cautious about and decide whether I want to put the effort into the girl. This is another nail in the coffin for the poor shy girls that I actually like and prefer. *sigh*

Well, there's a bit more honesty for you women to ruffle through. *amused*


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

killemdeader said:


> Yep, that's pretty much exactly my problem, I'm not hardnosed and I definitely am immature when it comes to romantic relationships. I'm perfectly aware of it. Is the only way to change that to become a more aggressive AND still immature guy, and get experience that way until I'm more seasoned and experienced? Because I definitely do not want to be that "creepy" guy, but it sounds like there isn't really another way to go about getting experience without the possibility of coming of as a creeper.


Hmm...I don't agree. While I noted having a "fuckit" attitude definitely made it easier, I still did make the moves before. It was just more uncomfortable for me. You can gain maturity by learning to be comfortable with yourself. If you are feeling super awkward, you are most likely going to be awkward and make her feel awkward which leads to awkward moments. 

Why don't you focus on being their friend first. Bring women off the pedestal you have them on...they're people...just like you and I. They bleed. They sweat....dude..they may hide it well but...they even fart! If you gain friendship, and attraction is there, some times that is the best way to begin a relationship. And, mutual respect gained from the friendship will make her less likely to "crush" your confidence if she isn't interested. She may say no...but it will most likely be more respectfully than someone you rushed in to kiss or confess interest in without getting to know them at all. 

Most women, while they may feel a little awkward, would still find some flattery in most guys making a move. Confidence is key in them being more open to romantic possibilities.


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## perfectcircle (Jan 5, 2011)

Infermiera said:


> @The King Of Dreams this is a great thread.
> 
> And to all the men who were brave enough to reveal their insecurities. I'm proud of you guys!!
> 
> I don't know about other girls but for me, a man who's brave enough to reveal his vulnerability is way more appealing than a man who hides behind false bravado.



Yeah, I'd like to chime in that the person I love, I love for all his most charming things. When he blushes & hides his head, when he messes up a joke, when he admits something vulnerable. He was really awkward when I was first meeting him. I have tons of memorable moments of him being awkward or dorky somehow. But I like those moments & they make me feel close to him. To the other guys, those things are not inherently bad. They may be endearing to someone in the future.


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

adverseaffects said:


> Yeah, I'd like to chime in that the person I love, I love for all his most charming things. When he blushes & hides his head, when he messes up a joke, when he admits something vulnerable. He was really awkward when I was first meeting him. I have tons of memorable moments of him being awkward or dorky somehow. But I like those moments & they make me feel close to him. To the other guys, those things are not inherently bad. They may be endearing to someone in the future.


Awwwe...that was really, really sweet. He's lucky to have someone who appreciates him for those moments.


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## killemdeader (Dec 22, 2012)

JaySH said:


> Hmm...I don't agree. While I noted having a "fuckit" attitude definitely made it easier, I still did make the over before. It was just ore uncomfortable for me. You can gain maturity by learning to be comfortable with yourself. If you are feeling super awkward, you are most likely going to be awkward and make her feel awkward which leads to awkward moments.
> 
> Why don't you focus on being their friend first. Bring women off the pedestal you have them on...they're people...just like you and I. They bleed. They sweat....dude..they may hide it well but...they even fart! If you gain friendship, and attraction is there, some times that is the best way to begin a relationship. And, mutual respect gained from the friendship will make her less likely to "crush" your confidence if she isn't interested. She may say no...but it will most likely be more respectfully than someone you rushed in to kiss or confess interest without getting to know them at all.
> 
> Most women, while they may feel a little awkward, would still find some flattery in most guys making a move. Confidence is key in them being more open to romantic possibilities.


Thanks for the response! A lot of my fears stem from the fact that all the women I've ever gone after were in one of my circles of friends, and led to a lot of unneeded drama (also because they weren't exactly healthy, clean breakups). I'm trying to break away from that and start relationships with less baggage, which is out of my comfort zone. 

I'm a pretty confident person in general, and I don't give off a ton of awkwardness in any sort of social situations, sorry if I gave the impression of as much. I have the opposite problem of putting women on a pedestal; I don't really have another gear, so to speak. I have friendly, fun, unflirtatious me, and that's it. Not even a vague idea of how to signal; makes me anxious about asking because I am aware I don't know how to make myself clear, and it's likely to come out of left field. I guess that shouldn't really matter in social situations like college parties though, so it's probably not worth getting hung up over. 

That, and a general awkwardness (more in the clumsiness sense) with physicality. Being comfortable with the person hasn't really helped with that before.


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## JaySH (Jul 29, 2012)

killemdeader said:


> Thanks for the response! A lot of my fears stem from the fact that all the women I've ever gone after were in one of my circles of friends, and led to a lot of unneeded drama (also because they weren't exactly healthy, clean breakups). I'm trying to break away from that and start relationships with less baggage, which is out of my comfort zone.
> 
> Been there. Again...making new female friends first, outside of your friend circle, will help bring you into your comfort zone, I would think.
> 
> ...



This just is what it is. Either work on coordination or just accept it and own it. Playin basketball, soccer, learning dance, etc. can all help with it. I have a touch of it myself sometimes but, it is what it is. Women still seem to like me . Just don't let embarrassment form situations caused by clumsiness make you act like a jack-ass. Laugh it off and move on. We all have our embarrassing moments.

Just advice man. On what I said to say; remember that's just an example. What you find intriguing about her; her eyes, smile, hair, ability to make you laugh, how she dresses, etc, are all things you could note. And, it may help to do so in small doses before asking the question for a potential date. 

But...the best way to get comfortable with anything is ...practice. So, practice being yourself with woman you don't know...but a more expressive and complimenting self. 

That's all I got.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

JaySH said:


> dude..they may hide it well but...they even fart!


* 


Lies ... you lie!*


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

RetroVortex said:


> Yeah. It happened in my early teen years at secondary school.
> 
> I was bullied for a long time you see, so my confidence was already pretty low, and I was naturally very shy.
> So I could never be sure if she actually liked me, or more likely, was just teasing me for fun/because everyone was doing it.
> ...


THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU. 
Has anyone ever directly told you that?
Look, you will find someone who understands you. That's one of the primary things that NFs look for. To be understood is like finding a diamond mine for us. Just be patient and have faith that you will find THE ONE. I think you're braver than you think and you just need some motivation. There's reasons why I wish I lived near you. Not that I can solve your problems, but that you know and feel someone who understands you and they are right there with you. Every one of us deserves that and you are no different.

I hope you find that person in the form of a best friend or SO. But whoever it is, I'm sure they'll be around soon. *hugs*


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## Synched (Dec 19, 2012)

@_The King Of Dreams_ all these replies to other people's insecurities make me wonder why you would have low self-esteem. You're an amazing guy and don't let ANYONE tell you different! Also... *hug*


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

Synched said:


> @_The King Of Dreams_ all these replies to other people's insecurities make me wonder why you would have low self-esteem. You're an amazing guy and don't let ANYONE tell you different! Also... *hug*


I appreciate that. I'm a complicated individual. My insecurities stem from depression, weight issues, not feeling attractive, personal struggles..... I can come off as having a great self esteem, but really it's just a fassade.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

The King Of Dreams said:


> I appreciate that. I'm a complicated individual. My insecurities stem from depression, weight issues, not feeling attractive, personal struggles..... I can come off as having a great self esteem, but really it's just a fassade.


I can relate to that as well. I feel like it's better just to hide it sometimes. I don't want to bring people down and I don't like them seeing me in pain so I just deal with it on my own. Sometimes it's the ones that seem the happiest that are the most sad. I wonder how many smiles are forced.


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## Infermiera (Mar 2, 2012)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> I can relate to that as well. I feel like it's better just to hide it sometimes. I don't want to bring people down and I don't like them seeing me in pain so I just deal with it on my own. Sometimes it's the ones that seem the happiest that are the most sad. I wonder how many smiles are forced.


Well I'm not a guy but I can relate to this so much. I hate to be a downer to. So I look for ways to make jokes and try to look happy. What I discovered though is that when I force myself to be happy, I become happy for real.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

Infermiera said:


> Well I'm not a guy but I can relate to this so much. I hate to be a downer to. So I look for ways to make jokes and try to look happy. What I discovered though is that when I force myself to be happy, I become happy for real.


Good point. I've gotten better at this. Whenever I feel myself getting down, I immediately look up the dirtiest jokes I can find. After a while I am cracking up and feeling better. It reminds me of a saying I heard that really hits home. 

_If you ACT enthusiastic, you will BE enthusiastic!_


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> I can relate to that as well. I feel like it's better just to hide it sometimes. I don't want to bring people down and I don't like them seeing me in pain so I just deal with it on my own. Sometimes it's the ones that seem the happiest that are the most sad. I wonder how many smiles are forced.


I thing it may have something to do with me being a E9. I hate to see others peace disrupted and so then it disrupts my peace. So if they are brought down by me then I have to make it so that they aren't so that their peace (and ultimately my peace) isn't disrupted. I hope I made sense.


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## TWN (Feb 16, 2012)

knittigan said:


> I'll come out as one of these women. Virtually all of the things that I am attracted to about male bodies have been unattractive (revolting is a bit strong) to me at different points in my life. Hair, penises, testicles, legs... used to make me shudder and now they make me salivate.


This is why I dont get 99% of women.

Never in my life have I been disgusted by men. I like all of it. The hair. Penis. Balls. Hands. Back. The penis in its flaccid state. 

Everything.

Maybe my theory is correct: Most women are lesbians, but surrender to societal pressure to be with men.

Ive never heard a straight man say "Yeah, when i was a 13-year-old kid I HATED tits, man. Those were disgusting".

That will never happen. Ever.


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## Infermiera (Mar 2, 2012)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> Good point. I've gotten better at this. Whenever I feel myself getting down, I immediately look up the dirtiest jokes I can find. After a while I am cracking up and feeling better. It reminds me of a saying I heard that really hits home.
> 
> _If you ACT enthusiastic, you will BE enthusiastic!_


Yeah I do that too! Look up jokes I mean, not specifically dirty but if I find some and they're funny, then I still laugh. There's a thread here called Humor Me. I frequently go there to laugh my ass off.


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## TWN (Feb 16, 2012)

Most of my insecurities have to do with not being good enough; not living up to my own standards.

No one else understands this. I could give a rats ass about what you view as good, but if I dont prove my worth to myself the opinions of outsiders dont matter. This is where all of my major depressive episodes start with.


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## RetroVortex (Aug 14, 2012)

The King Of Dreams said:


> THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH YOU.
> Has anyone ever directly told you that?
> Look, you will find someone who understands you. That's one of the primary things that NFs look for. To be understood is like finding a diamond mine for us. Just be patient and have faith that you will find THE ONE. I think you're braver than you think and you just need some motivation. There's reasons why I wish I lived near you. Not that I can solve your problems, but that you know and feel someone who understands you and they are right there with you. Every one of us deserves that and you are no different.
> 
> I hope you find that person in the form of a best friend or SO. But whoever it is, I'm sure they'll be around soon. *hugs*


Thanks man. *hugs*

I mean I must have fight in me, else I would have given up completely by now, and my life isn't bad at all.
Its just annoying sometimes that I crave for more. (Fi man. A tough bitch to tame! XD)

I don't know why I find it all so easy to put it all down on paper vs. just being myself in real life. 
I mean if anything, it takes a whole lot more effort to type your thoughts out, but I guess in many ways its easier to articulate when you have time to think it over.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

The King Of Dreams said:


> I appreciate that. I'm a complicated individual. My insecurities stem from depression, weight issues, not feeling attractive, personal struggles..... I can come off as having a great self esteem, but really it's just a fassade.


I think, and correct me if I am wrong, that your insecurities has led to depression so insecurities are the roots. When you feel insecure, it is always related to something, to the known. So in this case maybe your weight issues.
If make a variation on this theme, you must ask yourself where these insecurities are coming from.

Weight issues, unless you don't have some sort of illness (I believe you had a kidney problem, right?, is something you can work on right now. A journey of a 1000 miles begins with a single step. I think that you are feeling a lot better already if you are comfortable with you body. Working out and eating healthy are two underestimated fundamentals of our well-being. 

I will skip the psychological and philosophical reasons for your depressions in relation to fear. I am sure you have seen enough of my post dealing with this.

Perhaps you should make it your goal right now to feel comfortable with you body and that is something not too difficult actually.

Subscribe to a gym and _*walk*_ every day on this thread mill for an hour. Just walk. When you walk, you use _*every*_ muscle and you start to burn calories after half an hour.

As for diet, maybe @_Snakecharmer_ can give you a few tips but here are a few of mine:
- wake up every day at the same time. This is crucial. 
- It's better to eat 6 times a day but small portions than twice a day a big portions. This way your stomach stays small and your body can adapt easier to this. 
- No sodas, just 2-3 liters of water a day and green tea without sugar.
Now, and this is where Snakecharmer comes in, I think you can still eat meat, just confine this to two days a week. Focus more on vegetables (as raw as possible) than on rice. And vary a lot. Make a schedule and learn how to cook.

I think you will see some big results after only a few months. After those months you can do some lifting in the gym. Light weights and lots of rotations. That way you burn more calories but it doesn't affect the growth of your muscles. Some say that heavy lifting builds bigger muscles but that is a myth. So bench pressing 30kgs 50 times has app. the same effect as (80kgsx3)x6 Another advantage is that the memory of the muscle stays in tact for a longer period of time. A muscle has a memory, we just need to program it correctly.

Our physical appearance may not lead to vanity but there is nothing wrong with feeling good because you look good. The above is actually just one step, but an important one and I think it will solve your other problems as well partially. Maybe you knew all this, I am just trying to help and I don't know too much about your kidney problem. Discard all this if you think it's non-applicable.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

TWN said:


> Most of my insecurities have to do with not being good enough; not living up to my own standards.
> 
> No one else understands this. I could give a rats ass about what you view as good, but if I dont prove my worth to myself the opinions of outsiders dont matter. This is where all of my major depressive episodes start with.


This resonates with me as well ...


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

TWN said:


> This is why I dont get 99% of women.
> 
> Never in my life have I been disgusted by men. I like all of it. The hair. Penis. Balls. Hands. Back. The penis in its flaccid state.
> 
> ...


Interesting.

Well, i think men are more physically oriented sooner, than women are. 

Yes, I like men's bodies ... now. But there's something still kind of unsettling about them. Kind of like their musk... it turns me off and turns me on simultaneously.

Aside from size/height, in general I am first attracted to a guy's personality, and then attraction to the body follows after. There are men who are conventionally handsome and who I just feel nothing for, at least not until I get to experience their personality and then there's the possibility of attraction. 

My impression from men is that, yes, while they might also be attracted to a woman's personality, in general (and individuals might differ) they can easily just look at a woman, find her hot, and want to do her even if they know nothing about her personality. The visual lock revs the engine before anything else might have even engaged yet.

I think the attraction might generally source a bit different, based on estrogen vs testosterone impact on wiring/development.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> This is a great thread, lots of interesting posts. Alright, time for some honesty. Here's a list of things I am or have been insecure about:


I'm not going to quote the entire post (since it already has been a few times). 

I just wanted to say that, earlier this morning in the thread asking what we respect in others, my answer was "courage" -- especially people who could easily give up or become self-indulgent or let their anxieties control them but choose instead to live in a way that serves their values. Especially when someone is facing a HOST of fears or anxiety and chooses instead to just live normally and not be absorbed by them.

I just wanted to tell you that I very much respect you.


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

RetroVortex said:


> Thanks man. *hugs*
> 
> I mean I must have fight in me, else I would have given up completely by now, and my life isn't bad at all.
> Its just annoying sometimes that I crave for more. (Fi man. A tough bitch to tame! XD)
> ...


It will take time. You're doing good by just admitting this to others.


All in Twilight said:


> I think, and correct me if I am wrong, that your insecurities has led to depression so insecurities are the roots. When you feel insecure, it is always related to something, to the known. So in this case maybe your weight issues.
> If make a variation on this theme, you must ask yourself where these insecurities are coming from.
> 
> Weight issues, unless you don't have some sort of illness (I believe you had a kidney problem, right?, is something you can work on right now. A journey of a 1000 miles begins with a single step. I think that you are feeling a lot better already if you are comfortable with you body. Working out and eating healthy are two underestimated fundamentals of our well-being.
> ...


Actually I went to study culinary arts so cooking is not a issue. Also it's hard to eat right since my family eats the wrong things and when I run out of my healthy food there's nothing left in my house but their unhealthy stuff. 

I have worked out before. But I need the motivation to get up and MOVE. I feel lazy and tired all of the time. Even after exercising I was exhausted and had to sleep afterward. But I MUST start back up. Getting healthy isn't hard, I just have to get up and DO IT.
I've eaten 6 meals a day and lost 30 lbs. in 8 weeks. So I need to get back to that.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

The King Of Dreams said:


> It will take time. You're doing good by just admitting this to others.
> 
> Actually I went to study culinary arts so cooking is not a issue. Also it's hard to eat right since my family eats the wrong things and when I run out of my healthy food there's nothing left in my house but their unhealthy stuff.
> 
> ...


I made a mistake. I meant: _Discard all this if you think it's non-applicable _and not _Discard all this if you *don't* think it's _non-applicable. Sorry about that 

The motivation is that chick with that super booty. Or tits. Tits Ass, (TA) my favorite trailer trash-canoe. Do you have Trans Am? Sell it and use your legs. Imma gonna check on you. Florida, right?


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

All in Twilight said:


> I made a mistake. I meant: _Discard all this if you think it's non-applicable _and not _Discard all this if you *don't* think it's _non-applicable. Sorry about that
> 
> The motivation is that chick with that super booty. Or tits. Tits Ass, (TA) my favorite trailer trash-canoe. Do you have Trans Am? Sell it and use your legs. Imma gonna check on you. Florida, right?


Haha You got me. Yeah, I'm in Florida.... Twenty minutes from Disney World.


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## 7rr7s (Jun 6, 2011)

@The King Of Dreams @JaySH @Jennywocky @Dauntless 

Thank you for your kind words. They really mean alot.


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## The King Of Dreams (Aug 18, 2010)

KindOfBlue06 said:


> @The King Of Dreams @JaySH @Jennywocky @Dauntless
> 
> Thank you for your kind words. They really mean alot.


You're very welcome, man. You matter, we want you to know that.


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