# Which type is most likely to be Narcissistic?



## GJN94 (Feb 17, 2019)

I know the guy in this thumbnail is not Ted Bundy but I've seen a few people type him as ENTP (any thoughts on this?)

Also I was wondering whether certain types may be predisposed to narcissism - I mean the conventional response would be that its a mental condition which can affect anyone. In which case it would be fascinating to see how it manifests in each different type.

Does anyone have any stories of Narcissism and do they know the of the person in question?


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## Charus (May 31, 2017)

Would be great if you actualy wrote something interesting regarding the thread title you've given instead of just posting a link to youtube video.


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## Bunniculla (Jul 17, 2017)

Neutronic said:


> Would be great if you actualy wrote something interesting regarding the thread title you've given instead of just posting a link to youtube video.


When I click on it, it's not even a specific video related to the question. It's just the channel itself. Obvious self promotion here. Belongs more in some kind of promotion or vendor thread. We should make a poll to see if this method of advertising is actually resulting in more views/subscriptions or just getting people annoyed at the utter lack for other people's time.

Next, there will be a thread called "Which type flips burger patties better?"


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## Charus (May 31, 2017)

Bunniculla said:


> When I click on it, it's not even a specific video related to the question. It's just the channel itself. Obvious self promotion here. Belongs more in some kind of promotion or vendor thread. We should make a poll to see if this method of advertising is actually resulting in more views/subscriptions or just getting people annoyed at the utter lack for other people's time.
> 
> Next, there will be a thread called "Which type flips burger patties better?"


Actualy the worse part is having to pay cash to take one of their personality tests (Which would be equaly bad as the free ones), not sure who in their right mind would throw cash for an internet personality test.

Channel advertising threads (Like this one) should be locked/deleted instantly if you want my opinion regarding this.


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## Bunniculla (Jul 17, 2017)

Mods, please review thread for closure. Thanks.


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## GJN94 (Feb 17, 2019)

Yea my bad, forgot to link to the specific video.


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## GJN94 (Feb 17, 2019)

Couldn't agree more.


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## HIX (Aug 20, 2018)

According to celebrity types ENFJs and INTJs are the most narcissistic


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

My thoughts on this are that every type can have a narcissistic or a humble person in their group. Also, having narcissism doesn't mean you're a serial killer. Your title question is very confusing to what you posted about serial killers. Most serial killers have to have both, what would be referred to as a malignant narcissist, basically they would have to exhibit NPD and ASPD together. 

Though you did reference Serial Killers, not every Serial Killer has ASPD but there is a high amount of them that have ASPD. The ones that do would have to have Se. The disease's key point is, is this person impulsive? Being highly spontaneous would have Se in the first slot or second or maybe even third. Also yes, I would agree Ted could be an ESTP but I felt with his law background he had a really charismatic ENTJ feel. With Se being the third slot. Like the man meticulous defended himself in court, I'm thinking ENTJ.

Just keep in mind only 20% of people that have been diagnosed with ASPD also have NPD. Also, someone who is high with Se slot does not mean they have NPD or even ASPD. 

Like I'm recently watching Dexter and he first starts out that he has ASPD or so he claims. I can't remember which version he thinks he is, Sociopath or Psychopath? Though about halfway in I'm yelling at the TV, you don't have ASPD. Like who diagnosed him? Just his adoptive father and himself? Woah, really bad parenting. Dexter does have Se but it seems to be really low maybe third or fourth placement. He's meticulous, has held a job down for several years, and is not highly Spontaneous. He plans those killings like a serial bomber would down to the last detail. Most psychopaths aren't interested in applying that degree of self-knowledge or self-betterment. Like Teddy Bundy went right on killing people after he escaped the second time. As in Dexter is really self-aware of the damage he causes to people he loves and tries best to avoid, again this is not ASPD behavior. I've lived with a Sociopath half my life, she acts nothing like Dexter. She could actually be the complete opposite of Dexter, she is an ESFP. She's grown a lot with the help of doctors and a lot of love from our family but it wasn't an easy path for her growing up. Spontaneity ain't got nothing on her. You think you might be spontaneous and then she'll go hold my beer. A real free wild child spinning in the wind with no thought to her health. Though I do know sociopaths can have an empathy switch what she feels for a handful of people and it can't be given to everyone. Example the Kray Twins loved their mother. Anyways Dexter does not have ASPD.

Again, I would like to notate not every spontaneous person has ASPD, there is a set group of points to check mark off. I had one guy tell me on a job that he thought he might be a sociopath since he didn't like very many people and had a hard time with empathy. I looked at him over coffee and told him nope, you don't have it. He asked me why I was sure. I said you're not impulsive, you don't anger easily, you're cool as a cucumber, I haven't caught you in a thousand lies, you don't take a risk, and you've held your job for over eight years now. He, of course, could still be a serial killer for all I know but he doesn't have ASPD. 

FYI, weird fact. "The FBI's most feared profile is that of a female malignant narcissist. Because she will triple her male counterpart’s body count and the chances of catching her are very, very slim. Female malignant narcissists are exceedingly rare." Most will be male. 

Your answer would be someone with high Se, that has both ASPD and NPD disorders if you're referring to the average serial killer. 

As for plain old narcissism like your title thread stated. Any type can have them, I don't believe any would be greater or lesser in the spectrum. You could apply population stats to the types meaning there are more Sensors born in the general public would be* ISFJ and ESFJ,* being that they make up 13% and 12% of the MBTI. There is more of them so they might have a larger quota of NPDs among them.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

An INFP 4w3 at my work who is in a fucked up loop and utilizing her super ego (ESTJ) is about the most nightmarish Narcissist I have encountered in my life so far. Seriously a fucked up INFP who is a manipulative narcissist acting as an ESTJ is a TERRIFYING thing to encounter. Its like working with fucken hitler.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

@Maybe


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Definitely an unhealthy INTJ, ENTJ, INTP, ENTP, INFJ, ENFJ, INFP, ENFP, ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ESFJ, ISTP, ESTP, ISFP or ESFP.


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## Charus (May 31, 2017)

Stevester said:


> Definitely an unhealthy INTJ, ENTJ, INTP, ENTP, INFJ, ENFJ, INFP, ENFP, ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ESFJ, ISTP, ESTP, ISFP or ESFP.


You forgot the 17th and 18th special unknown types.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

xNTJ


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## Maybe (Sep 10, 2016)

ENIGMA2019 said:


> @*Maybe*


?


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## richard nixon (Sep 14, 2017)

ENTPs, ENFJs, ESTPs, ESFJs, ENFPs, INFPs, INFJs, and INTJs are the most narcissistic types. Though ENFJs are the most narcissistic of all but they're still one of my favorite types.


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## ENIGMA2019 (Jun 1, 2015)

Maybe said:


> ?


Isn't there an appropriate area for this person to spam their videos?


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## ReliK (Feb 24, 2019)

You know what I find more interesting? The motive of those who want to connect personality types to rare and incredibly stigmatizing outliers. Almost all people demonstrate a spectrum of narc tendencies throughout life, but clinical NPD is really uncommon enough that, even if particular types have a higher correlation (which is possible) it isn't going to be meaningful enough (imo) to make a valid association with type. 


This NPD witch-hunt (that really took a strong hold it seems, about a decade ago) is I think, really misguided and counterproductive, at this point. It started out as this movement to raise psychological awareness for those trapped in these incredibly harmful, invalidating dynamics, but at some point evolved into this need to slap a tag on any person who we've ever been hurt by, who has different values or priorities or emotional awareness/expressions, or quite often other mental health problems needing to be addressed. 

People read a few books, watch a few you-tube clips, and suddenly become armchair shrinks who believe themselves qualified and experienced enough to start throwing around diagnosis willy fuckin nilly. It's really counter productive on a number of levels. 

No one needs to know that an ENFJ or an ESTP or whatever type is .0000000892 more likely to be a Narc than any other type, for them to recognize they may be one, or involved with one, or that they are in relationships which make them feel bad and needing help.


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## Aridela (Mar 14, 2015)

ultracrepidarian said:


> You know what I find more interesting? The motive of those who want to connect personality types to rare and incredibly stigmatizing outliers. Almost all people demonstrate a spectrum of narc tendencies throughout life, but clinical NPD is really uncommon enough that, even if particular types have a higher correlation (which is possible) it isn't going to be meaningful enough (imo) to make a valid association with type.
> 
> 
> This NPD witch-hunt (that really took a strong hold it seems, about a decade ago) is I think, really misguided and counterproductive, at this point. It started out as this movement to raise psychological awareness for those trapped in these incredibly harmful, invalidating dynamics, but at some point evolved into this need to slap a tag on any person who we've ever been hurt by, who has different values or priorities or emotional awareness/expressions, or quite often other mental health problems needing to be addressed.
> ...


Couldn't agree more. 

As in pretty much any case when a layperson is attempting to diagnose a medical/mental condition it's more for shaming purposes, rather than for actually raising awareness.


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## Charus (May 31, 2017)

Aridela said:


> Couldn't agree more.
> 
> As in pretty much any case when a layperson is attempting to diagnose a medical/mental condition it's more for shaming purposes, rather than for actually raising awareness.


Yeah man, thats sad as fuck...


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a mental illness. 

Mental Illness is an equal-opportunity-type-employer.

Threads like this are terribly stigmatising and lead to stereotypes. This thread is typist and self-promotive of the OP. I don't understand why it hasn't been taken down either.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

I don't think there's any particular type associated with Narcissism, although I think FJ types are probably less prone than Ts and FPs.

I do think most psychopaths tend to either be TPs or NTJs though. Very few would be Feelers and ISTJs and ESTJs tend to be too conscientious and value rules too much to be psychopaths. I'd say the STPs have the most in common with psychopaths, followed closely by the NTPs and then the NTJs a bit further behind.

Actually not all psychopaths are bad people. I read that only about 15% of them can be classified as antisocial, which is higher than the 2% or so of the general population, but still a minority. Most psychopaths are actually law abiding people (even if only out of convenience) and I'm sure a lot of them contribute to their communities.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Narcissists and psychopaths are different beasts though.

Narcissists demand constant validation and praise, thus why I believe an F type can definitely fit the bill. It's hard to imagine a F type being a psychopath though. If they are, they must be the clueless kind in that they believe in their inner core that they're always doing the right thing, oblivious to the fact that they only act in their own self-interests and screw everyone around them. A T type psychopath however is probably devoid of any thoughts of morality. That's why I do believe psychos are probably by default TP types. Their lower Fe only serves to monitor people's reactions and act accordingly but there's not an ounce of _''I think that would hurt their feelings''_ it's only about what they can get away with. I think TJ types can't really be psychopaths at least from a clinical standpoint. Fi, no matter how low and dysfunctional it may be _demands_ moral justifications for one's actions and is self-reflective. At worst I think TJ types will be cold and domineering assholes who push and bully people around for (what they think) is a perfectly justifiable goal. But that leans more towards narcissism or just shitty people skills than anti-social behavior. 

Also, I don't partake in this belief that NTJs have the potential to somehow be more evil or morally corrupt than STJs. I think this is a myth brought on by all these fictional NTJ villains we see in media, which their is an overly exaggerated abundance of. But that's only people because are lazy when it comes to writing villains. It's just easier to go for the by-the-book megalomaniac NTJ who wants to carry out his plan and step on everyone in his way, rather than a very complex, multi-layered SF villain for instance.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

Stevester said:


> Narcissists and psychopaths are different beasts though.
> 
> Narcissists demand constant validation and praise, thus why I believe an F type can definitely fit the bill. It's hard to imagine a F type being a psychopath though. If they are, they must be the clueless kind in that they believe in their inner core that they're always doing the right thing, oblivious to the fact that they only act in their own self-interests and screw everyone around them. A T type psychopath however is probably devoid of any thoughts of morality. That's why I do believe psychos are probably by default TP types. Their lower Fe only serves to monitor people's reactions and act accordingly but there's not an ounce of _''I think that would hurt their feelings''_ it's only about what they can get away with. I think TJ types can't really be psychopaths at least from a clinical standpoint. Fi, no matter how low and dysfunctional it may be _demands_ moral justifications for one's actions and is self-reflective. At worst I think TJ types will be cold and domineering assholes who push and bully people around for (what they think) is a perfectly justifiable goal. But that leans more towards narcissism or just shitty people skills than anti-social behavior.
> 
> Also, I don't partake in this belief that NTJs have the potential to somehow be more evil or morally corrupt than STJs. I think this is a myth brought on by all these fictional NTJ villains we see in media, which their is an overly exaggerated abundance of. But that's only people because are lazy when it comes to writing villains. It's just easier to go for the by-the-book megalomaniac NTJ who wants to carry out his plan and step on everyone in his way, rather than a very complex, multi-layered SF villain for instance.


I've looked at polls of self-professed psychopaths and some of them do say they are TJ types, although TP types are probably still more common. I think it leans more towards TP because of secondary psychopathy, which is characterized largely by impulsivity.

I disagree that Fi always leads to empathy therefore TJs cannot truly be evil. _Values_ yes, but Fi values can be completely self-centered or very warped. INTJs actually rate slightly higher in primary psychopathy than INTPs.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

morgandollar said:


> INTJs actually rate slightly higher in primary psychopathy than INTPs.


What, exactly is secondary psychopathy? Both me and @Wellsy have dabbled a bit in the study of psychopathy and I've never heard of this before (Wellsy, that's why I summon you as well to this thread - have you heard of this?). 

Also, where do you get this particular statistic? I wasn't aware there had ever been a study of psychopathy and MBTI type. I'd be extremely interested in their methods especially. 

I do have to say that I find it so sad that many cannot seem to see the depth of heart inside the INTJ. It is something I struggle to defend and bright light to, but I've learned to remain silent as my efforts are destined to fall upon deaf ears.


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## LonelySpaceEmperor (Jan 4, 2018)

@brightflashes Psychopathy is a field of study and a condition which happens on a continuum, i.e. a spectrum. Psychopathy is split into two factors:

Factor 1 Psychopathy (Classic Psychopathy) which is mainly Interpersonal and includes symptoms like: Cold Heartedness, Low emotionality such as fearlessness, shallow emotions, Callousness, Superficial Charm, Grandiosity and Pathological Lying. 

Factor 2 Psychopathy (AKA Sociopathy) is mainly Affective and Behavioral. Symptoms are: Antisocial tendencies, Impulsivity, unstable emotions, Parasytic lifestyle, irresponsibility, lack of empathy.

EDIT: A lot of INTJs including myself score high on Factor 1 Psychopathy on that test, but what it is measuring is Sub-clinical Psychopathy, not Clinical Psychopathy, I believe the test itself stated that a score of 97% or above would indicate Clinical Psychopathy. Scoring high on Factor 1 Psychopathy has a lot less meaning than scoring high on factor 2 psychopathy because Factor 1 Psychopathy is something an individual is born with via genetics. Factor 1 Psychopathy is essentially just lack of brain Structure which renders subjects incapable of experiencing many emotions. So yeah, INTJs may have "Psychopathic tendencies" like many other Thinking types, but that doesn't mean anything.

EDIT 2: This is the test I spoke of https://openpsychometrics.org/tests/LSRP.php. Below is a chart of average MBTI type scores from a sample of a couple of hundred people:


* *


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## LonelySpaceEmperor (Jan 4, 2018)

For some reason INTJs are "Strongly correlated" with Narcissistic Personality Disorder according IDRLabs and other websites. A study on the correlations between Personality Disorder scores on some inventory and MBTI scores was conducted (one of its kind I think) and came up with NPD only correlated significantly with iNtuition, the rest somewhat / vaguely correlating with IxTJ: https://www.uccs.edu/Documents/dseg...igation-Jungs-types-and-PD-features-JPT-2.pdf, barely a "Strong Correlation"


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

@LonelySpaceEmperor

Ah. Thank you for the clarification. I've only actually studied biological psychopathy (James Fallon type stuff). I am not particularly fond of self-report though I recognise it is used a lot in the field. I remember w hen the Hare checklist was updated, the actual guy who updated it (I can't remember his name), was talking to me about it and I didn't know it was him and I was like "Oh do you think that's actually going to work? I mean, it's not like it's really all that new. It's the same methods. We should try for an objective test" and he ... well, didn't have anything to say back. I felt so horrible when I realised it was the actual guy haha.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

morgandollar said:


> I do think most psychopaths tend to either be TPs or NTJs though. Very few would be Feelers and ISTJs and ESTJs tend to be too conscientious and value rules too much to be psychopaths.


 Your reasoning is poor. Not all rules are benign or beneficial. People can follow rules and still end up doing psychopathic things if the rules are harmful enough. Hitler's officers were doing psychopathic things by following Hitler's rules. 

People can be conscientious about almost anything, not just good things, not just non-psychopathic things. 

And the thread is about narcissism, not psychopathy.


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## Aluminum Frost (Oct 1, 2017)

It's probably like ENTJ>ESTx>INTJ those are the ones I've most know to engage in gaslighting


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

brightflashes said:


> What, exactly is secondary psychopathy? Both me and @Wellsy have dabbled a bit in the study of psychopathy and I've never heard of this before (Wellsy, that's why I summon you as well to this thread - have you heard of this?).
> 
> Also, where do you get this particular statistic? I wasn't aware there had ever been a study of psychopathy and MBTI type. I'd be extremely interested in their methods especially.
> 
> I do have to say that I find it so sad that many cannot seem to see the depth of heart inside the INTJ. It is something I struggle to defend and bright light to, but I've learned to remain silent as my efforts are destined to fall upon deaf ears.


It wasn't a very scientific study, some person polled the different types in terms of how high they ranked in psychopathic traits. None of the individual types ranked particularly high, although ENTP and ESTP ranked the highest.

I think primary psychopathy is more like "meanness" and secondary psychopathy is impulsivity and rule breaking.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

LonelySpaceEmperor said:


> @brightflashes Psychopathy is a field of study and a condition which happens on a continuum, i.e. a spectrum. Psychopathy is split into two factors:
> 
> Factor 1 Psychopathy (Classic Psychopathy) which is mainly Interpersonal and includes symptoms like: Cold Heartedness, Low emotionality such as fearlessness, shallow emotions, Callousness, Superficial Charm, Grandiosity and Pathological Lying.
> 
> ...


I'm surprised that ENFPs rank so high in secondary psychopathy.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

morgandollar said:


> I'm surprised that ENFPs rank so high in secondary psychopathy.


Do you happen to know how they measured for type? I'm always interested in how they determine type in those sorts of studies. While type is returned consistently at a 78% rate on MBTI (the most recent statistic I have seen at least), it's still far from perfected. : )

Sounds like they were studying antisocial personality disorder perhaps? Psychopaths, in my experience, aren't "mean". I forgot to add I also did a small prison study, but that was for school and nothing at all scientific except that it was directed by a professor and a statistician.


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## morgandollar (Feb 21, 2018)

brightflashes said:


> Do you happen to know how they measured for type? I'm always interested in how they determine type in those sorts of studies. While type is returned consistently at a 78% rate on MBTI (the most recent statistic I have seen at least), it's still far from perfected. : )
> 
> Sounds like they were studying antisocial personality disorder perhaps? Psychopaths, in my experience, aren't "mean". I forgot to add I also did a small prison study, but that was for school and nothing at all scientific except that it was directed by a professor and a statistician.


It was self identified type, and based on a study on Tumblr, but I saw another study that found similar results (ExTPs having the most psychopathic traits, and FJs the least).

I think primary psychopath relates more to shallow emotions and callous affect (these people aren't necessarily mean or bad like you said, Alex Honnold the mountain climber is a very admirable person and is much like this) while secondary psychopathy relates more to antisocial personality disorder (who are really just people who commit antisocial acts, but are usually dysfunctional neurotypicals rather than genuine psychopaths).


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## Zionas (Apr 30, 2019)

Just took the test:
Primary psychopathy-Higher than 41.38% of people who took the test.

Secondary psychopathy-Higher than 63.38% of people who took the test.

Here are some traits associated with primary psychopathy:
-Superficial charm
-Grandiose self-image
-Need for stimulation / being prone to boredom
-Pathological lying
-Cunning / manipulative
-Lack of remorse / guilt
-Shallow affect / superficial emotions
-Lack of empathy



Here are some traits associated with secondary psychopathy:
-Impulsiveness
-Lack of realistic long-term goals
-Juvenile delinquency
-Irresponsibility
-Parasitic lifestyle
-Poor behavioral controls
-Promiscuity


I don't identify with primary psychopathy with the exception of being slightly cunning / manipulative at times. My bottom line is: Never do anything to hurt decent individuals. However, if it's a person I find evil and morally detestable, and ESPECIALLY if it's a group or a system that I find not to my liking (and usually I have good reasons), then don't blame me for being remorseless if I do something damaging. In fact, I'd feel it's totally justified and that they probably deserve whatever's come their way. If I myself get hurt, it's a bit easier to control myself. However, if it's someone I love and care about, that's when the vindictive spirit within me is roused and I can act more viciously than I'd be willing to if it was something only concerning myself.


As for secondary psychopathy, I do have a very impulsive side. I definitely don't believe in a parasitic lifestyle. I believe in being good and doing my best to love, help, and serve. However, if again it's someone / something I find morally detestable, I would not hesitate to give them a taste of their own medicine and that's when anything resembling personal character and decency is shoved aside because I feel like I need to dish out vengeance whether actively or passively. Rules are made to be broken (unless there's a damn good reason to me as to why they should be followed), systems, bureaucracies are oppressive and tyrannical and meant to be challenged. Everything's fair game to me when it comes to acting against someone / something I feel is oppressive towards me and / or a loved one.

The bottom line is: If I love you, I'd move mountains for you. If I like you, I'd be good and caring and stick up for you. If you're neutral, I'd be decent but no more than that. If I dislike you, I'd try to avoid you. If you do anything to hurt me enough, and especially if you try to hurt a loved one of mine, then don't be surprised if anything happens to you. ) And that could be anything )


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Oh! I get it. You guys are talking about the Levenson scale. I didn't know that was still being used to measure psychopathy. I haven't thought about that one in a long time. 

You know, that test isn't used for diagnostic purposes at ALL. It's only used in research into human affect.


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