# Do you find the Myers-Briggs titles for NFs insulting?



## Sily (Oct 24, 2008)

Dreamers - not too bad, I guess. The Healers, The Empaths, The Sensitives, The observers, the Investigators, The Readers, The Creators, The Writers, The Idealists. Maybe some of those would apply to some INFPs. I just don't want to be known as the Unicorns.


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## rainbowchelle (May 12, 2011)

It's all the same to me. I like being a Dreamer just as much as I like being an Idealist, and neither term insults me. Despite not being one, I think that Giver is a good title, it sounds like someone who is selfless in their actions. Teacher sounds better in the sense that you're giving/sharing knowledge, whereas the title Giver is rather abstract and could mean anything or everything. So I see where you're coming from. But personally, they all sound good to me. roud:


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## IcarusDreams (Apr 23, 2011)

I LOVE the nickname dreamer, not so much idealist (as it could come off across as one being a zealot, which I am not), but I am a healer, although that's a pretty odd nickname. Of those 3, I rather be called a dreamer, as since when is it wrong to dream? Only society thinks "dreamers" can't be practical when required. I don't mind what "they" think. I rather dream, you know?

Flying on the wings of my dream.


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## SPtheGhost (Apr 26, 2010)

Eldritch Blue Rose said:


> Names are only labels, not the actual products themselves. One could call me Space Cadet or *Banana-bo-bana-ba-blama Jalamity Pants*, but that still doesn't change who I am personally. (unless I let it do so)


im lol'ing as im typing this :crazy:


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

I like both "dreamer" and "idealist," and don't consider either term insulting. If people use "dreamer" as an insult, it is for the same reason any word that refers to us will eventually end up taking on negative connotations. They dislike what we are, no matter what they call us.


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## PrinceinExile (Dec 29, 2010)

"you may say I'm dream, but I'm not the only one.."


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## Chief (Apr 23, 2011)

Aspera said:


> I don't find 'dreamer' to be insulting at all, it's just what I am. I hear 'idealist' used in a disparaging way much more often. But really I have no preference between the two.


Unquestionably this has to do with one's experiences, tendencies. Now, nobody's ever called me a dreamer because frankly I've achieved so much, it would be an out and out misnomer for me... "Creative Genius" would be a better term if they're trying to say something positive about our unrivaled imagination. I also think the "empaths" would be a good term as the xNFx's all are considered to have outstanding empathy, and in my case, supposed to be the most empathic of all types (and FWIW, no, it's not "empathetic." It's empathic. There is no such thing as a "sympath." There IS such a thing as an "empath", and as it's used in these works, they're talking about the NFs ability to feel or "take on" the actual feelings of another. IMNSHO, it's a sense just as real as sight, sound, hearing, etc... Think about "feeling tension in a room." It's not recognized as a sense because INTJs are incapable of feeling it. That is, of course, because they are to that sense as the blind are to sight. Sorry about the tangent... It's the ENFJ "TEACHER"!! in me. :wink



Aspera said:


> However I muuuuuuch prefer 'protector' over 'counselor', not for reasons of personal offence but because 'protector' is ten times more awesome and makes me feel like a knight of justice.


Just as I much prefer teacher to giver. Teacher makes me feel as though I'm the one type which takes the time out *and* has the capability to educe (of course, the root word for educate) or bring out the best in people... teach them to be the best they can be. "Giver," to me, is the least impressive, most negative of all the MB NF titles. Certainly the rest of the MB titles for the rest of the NFs are complimentary. Even though most people felt differently from me, I'm still glad I asked as I was able to learn quite a bit from the way people felt about their own individual title. What annoyed me the most were those who would say "it's just a name," (I mean, of course... and the sky is blue while the sun's out and there are no clouds) but like I said elsewhere, I can think of quite a few names or labels for some of the types which would make that type quite upset (e.g. calling INTJs the "interpersonal morons", "assholes/bitches" depending upon the sex, or probably most accurately "the sociopaths" as they are "without conscience", incapable of contrition, or calling the SPs "the aimless wanderers"... you get the idea).

Thanks for sharing your feelings on the matter.


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## Razvan (Dec 17, 2009)

Chief said:


> calling INTJs the "interpersonal morons", "assholes/bitches" depending upon the sex, or probably most accurately "the sociopaths" as they are "without conscience", incapable of contrition, or calling the SPs "the aimless wanderers"... you get the idea


Yeah, but Giver is not a negative label in general, whilst moron/bitch/sociopath/without conscience/ aimless wanderers are clear negative labels. You can put Giver in a positive as well as negative context, but the ones in the quotes above cannot be put in a positive context. So that is basically the idea about this label, "The Giver", it depends on the people who say it and the manner they do it. If you think it is a negative one, maybe it's either because people made you feel negative about it or you made yourself feel like that, but honestly, I love people who can give like that and to give it's not negative at all. To not give, now that's a negative thing. Take Maria Theresa for example, she was all about giving, can you put that in any negative connotation?


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## gaudy316 (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm an INFP and I'm called an Idealist. To me, and other personalities perhaps, the word Idealist might have a negative connotation - a lack of rationale. Doesn't help that I've been called irrational many times by others.


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## Chief (Apr 23, 2011)

Razvan said:


> Yeah, but Giver is not a negative label in general, whilst moron/bitch/sociopath/without conscience/ aimless wanderers are clear negative labels. You can put Giver in a positive as well as negative context, but the ones in the quotes above cannot be put in a positive context. So that is basically the idea about this label, "The Giver", it depends on the people who say it and the manner they do it. If you think it is a negative one, maybe it's either because people made you feel negative about it or you made yourself feel like that, but honestly, I love people who can give like that and to give it's not negative at all. To not give, now that's a negative thing. Take Maria Theresa for example, she was all about giving, can you put that in any negative connotation?


Actually, it's not negative to ME, but I know others who certainly find others who "give" to be weak, who mock even Mother Theresa (soon to be, Saint Theresa). If you really need me to, I will point out the way these people think (it would bring me not only no pleasure, it would be extremely distasteful for me to do so). 

I've also heard "giver" used negatively by INTJs on multiple occasions, saying people who are "givers" are really fakes, because they're only doing it to make others think they're good people. I've heard "giver" used as a synonym for "sap" or "nice guy" or "someone who kisses your ass." I think it was in a movie I first heard the cliche "women don't go for nice guys because you can't respect a guy who kisses your ass." (It was only after hearing this I learned it was not necessarily a bad thing to go after something you want for yourself). It's not at all a stretch to say "women don't go for guys who are 'givers' because you can't respect a guy who kisses your ass." This might just be a word which is (generally speaking) a compliment to women, but a severe insult to men (at least heterosexual men--Out of respect for gay men, I don't claim to know how they would take it).


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## Chief (Apr 23, 2011)

gaudy316 said:


> I'm an INFP and I'm called an Idealist. To me, and other personalities perhaps, the word Idealist might have a negative connotation - a lack of rationale. Doesn't help that I've been called irrational many times by others.


I don't disagree that "idealist" is used negatively by many, but then, other than "Architect" for SPs, at least Keirsey was an equal opportunity giver of ambivalent words. A "Utilitarian" for me, is one of the worst insults you could give, especially were you to call an NF one. It's cold, unfeeling, and in general a pretty good term for most NTs (not all). There ARE NTs who would find this to be almost a compliment, but I think other NTs would find it an insult (the NT in me finds it to be one). The same is true of the word "Guardian," even though I think Guardian is probably the most positive of all the words.

What I like about "Idealist" for NFs, is it can be used two ways. First, it displays a weakness which almost all NFs generally have, at least to some level, and that's the weakness of idealizing our mates. ENFJs suffer from this, according to Keirsey, worse than any other type. On the other hand, Idealists are also extreme optimists, and when a positive outlook is key to survival, it's one of the greatest things in the world to be. 

Allow me, if you will, to tell a relatively short story (relative to my other posts, LOL!!). There was an ENFJ soldier and chopper pilot who damn near died, and without an overly optimistic outlook, WOULD have died, as would the 5 unconscious soldiers in his chopper, and his already deceased co-pilot would never have made it back to his family. That pilot can attest to his "Idealistic" outlook being the key to not only his survival, but the survival of those other soldiers, as he foolishly, but truly believed he could still fly a chopper, despite bleeding to death fairly quickly, and he did it for 20 minutes, starting to pass out on approach, and finally passing out after landing at a CSH.

In that respect, being an Idealist, believing he could do what others told him they would have thought impossible had it happened to them, is what made him appear heroic (in his mind, he was just doing his job), but truly allowed him to live. I really don't believe anyone who wasn't an idealist would have lived through the same situation.

Each word, each term (other than Architect) can be used both ways. FWIW, I don't think "teacher", anymore than "architect" can be used negatively which is why I really like that for ENFJs (in addition to it being true. We really do try to help educate others in just about everything we ENFJs do, and it's been rare for me to find an ENFJ who would lose his cool, even more rare to find one who did lose his cool who didn't feel the need to apologize up and down about it, and beat him/herself up about it until they were mentally black and blue)


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## Razvan (Dec 17, 2009)

Chief said:


> Actually, it's not negative to ME, but I know others who certainly find others who "give" to be weak, who mock even Mother Theresa (soon to be, Saint Theresa). If you really need me to, I will point out the way these people think (it would bring me not only no pleasure, it would be extremely distasteful for me to do so).
> 
> I've also heard "giver" used negatively by INTJs on multiple occasions, saying people who are "givers" are really fakes, because they're only doing it to make others think they're good people. I've heard "giver" used as a synonym for "sap" or "nice guy" or "someone who kisses your ass." I think it was in a movie I first heard the cliche "women don't go for nice guys because you can't respect a guy who kisses your ass." (It was only after hearing this I learned it was not necessarily a bad thing to go after something you want for yourself). It's not at all a stretch to say "women don't go for guys who are 'givers' because you can't respect a guy who kisses your ass." This might just be a word which is (generally speaking) a compliment to women, but a severe insult to men (at least heterosexual men--Out of respect for gay men, I don't claim to know how they would take it).


Well, the way I see things, people who judge like that are unhealthy people (regardless of type) and anyway, who cares about what people who can't appreciate you have to say. I understand your point of view, maybe as an INFP it's easier for me not to care that much about people who cannot understand me?

PS: I really liked to chopper story.


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## Who (Jan 2, 2010)

Eldritch Blue Rose said:


> Names are only labels, not the actual products themselves. One could call me Space Cadet or Banana-bo-bana-ba-blama Jalamity Pants, but that still doesn't change who I am personally. (unless I let it do so)


Maybe it's just me, but I would prefer "Banana-bo-bana-ba-blama Jalamity Pants" to "inspirer" any day of the week.


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## Arclight (Feb 10, 2010)

The titles just encourage stereotyping. They bother me in that respect.


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## redmanXNTP (May 17, 2011)

There's too much conceptually that they're trying to encompass with these tags for them to be perfect for everyone. 

My type - INTP - is often called "the architect". While I understand how they're trying to apply it, that label has never really satisfied me, nor does "mastermind" for that matter.


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## Dream Beamer (May 12, 2011)

I have no problem being called a dreamer, I mean, I tend to daydream and linger in my thoughts all day so it's pretty fitting.


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## Chief (Apr 23, 2011)

Razvan said:


> Well, the way I see things, people who judge like that are unhealthy people (regardless of type)


The funny thing is, they DO tend to belong to certain types. I don't know a single true NF who would judge others that way, and probably very few SJs. Only an NT is detached enough from reality and into themselves enough to believe others could "only be extremely selfish." We can be nice and SAY "regardless of type," but the truth is one's type has an extreme effect on how we view the actions of others, at least IMO.



Razvan said:


> and anyway, who cares about what people who can't appreciate you have to say.


Unfortunately, that's part of being an ENFJ--caring about all people, having seemingly infinite patience for those who may not appreciate what we have to say, at least until we say it the right way, LOL! Or at least that's what we think, which is why we will explain the same things umpteen million different ways until someone DOES get it, DOES appreciate it. :happy:



Razvan said:


> I understand your point of view, maybe as an INFP it's easier for me not to care that much about people who cannot understand me?


I believe that's unquestionably true. To quote Keirsey re: ENFJs: "When ENFJs find their positions or beliefs were not comprehended or accepted, they are surprised, puzzled, and sometimes hurt." Our priority is "other people." I don't know the physics behind it, but as others in the ENFJ forum have agreed, somehow we are literally capable of feeling what others feel. I'm talking about feeling it physically and deeply within ourselves. This is so real to us, ENFJs who are not intrapersonally intelligent run the risk of over-identifying with others, usually a mate, and losing their own identity. Now, I feel as though I'm very in-touch with how I feel, so don't run that risk so much, but it should give you an idea of just how strong, how real another's feelings are to us. Think of it like the way you "feel tension" in a room, only imagine you can feel each individuals every emotion just as strongly and certainly. When you live a life like that, how can you NOT care what others are thinking, feeling? Does that make any sense? 




Razvan said:


> PS: I really liked to chopper story.


Uh, the pilot thanks you very much. It was a big part of "his" life, :wink: and he truly believes it was his optimism and idealism which got him (and 5 other members of the spec-ops community) through that day alive, though I just happen to know the death of his co-pilot that day is something which still causes tears to well up in his eyes every time he thinks about it.


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## Razvan (Dec 17, 2009)

Chief said:


> Unfortunately, that's part of being an ENFJ--caring about all people, having seemingly infinite patience for those who may not appreciate what we have to say, at least until we say it the right way, LOL! Or at least that's what we think, which is why we will explain the same things umpteen million different ways until someone DOES get it, DOES appreciate it. :happy:
> I believe that's unquestionably true. To quote Keirsey re: ENFJs: "When ENFJs find their positions or beliefs were not comprehended or accepted, they are surprised, puzzled, and sometimes hurt." Our priority is "other people." I don't know the physics behind it, but as others in the ENFJ forum have agreed, somehow we are literally capable of feeling what others feel. I'm talking about feeling it physically and deeply within ourselves. This is so real to us, ENFJs who are not intrapersonally intelligent run the risk of over-identifying with others, usually a mate, and losing their own identity. Now, I feel as though I'm very in-touch with how I feel, so don't run that risk so much, but it should give you an idea of just how strong, how real another's feelings are to us. Think of it like the way you "feel tension" in a room, only imagine you can feel each individuals every emotion just as strongly and certainly. When you live a life like that, how can you NOT care what others are thinking, feeling? Does that make any sense?


Well, it makes a lot of sense from what i keep reading about ENFJs, I care too about what others are feeling or thinking, but I'm sure the feeling within me is not as powerful as the feeling within an ENFJ. It also makes a lot of sense why I keep reading that ENFJs need to learn boundaries with this great quality, otherwise it will consume them.  Maybe you guys should learn a bit from us in this matter, to be more selective as to whose opinion you care about. I'm not saying you should change who you are, far from that, jsut learn to control your that great power of empathy you are talking about. :wink: There are a lot of negative people out there, regardless of type, even NFs, doesn't matter which type has the most, if you care too much of what people think, you will loose yourself (who you truly are) and that's definitely a bad thing. Plus some negative people just suck your energy dry without giving anything, these people are to be avoided at all costs. Seriously, I have met a few energy draining vampires, it's not cool at all.



> Uh, the pilot thanks you very much. It was a big part of "his" life, :wink: and he truly believes it was his optimism and idealism which got him (and 5 other members of the spec-ops community) through that day alive, though I just happen to know the death of his co-pilot that day is something which still causes tears to well up in his eyes every time he thinks about it.


I can imagine...unfortunately this is what war means...death, destruction and many other evil things, war is never meant to be pretty. :sad:


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## Sedem (Mar 16, 2012)

Chief said:


> Lots of us are aware Myers-Briggs has been updated by Keirsey, and that's how I was originally introduced to temperament indicators. NFs under Myers-Briggs are called "The Dreamers." Calling someone a dreamer is an insult in today's vernacular, and I wonder if Myers and Briggs meant it that way.
> 
> I much prefer Keirsey's "Idealists" to "Dreamers." I don't think of myself at ALL as a dreamer, but I do consider myself an idealist. Now, I'm an ENFJ, which in the language of Myers-Briggs is "The Givers." In today's terminology, this sounds to me like they're saying "The Saps." I'm neither a sap nor a dreamer, but I am an ENFJ.


Ummm, I prefer the title "Dreamer". I see it as a compliment because it implies that I have goals that aren't restricted by reality, thereby making anything possible. "Giver" doesn't convey a sap to me. It is simply highlighting their admirable qualities: that they give themselves, their time, their loyalty, their care for others. It is more beautiful than calling them ENFJs because in my mind, ENFJ connects them more with past needy, argumentative, stubborn, thoughtless, in-your-face ENFJs that I have known. Sorry, I know all ENFJs are not that way, just Giver says what I love about them, and ENFJ says what I don't :/


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## Vin The Dreamer (Mar 21, 2012)

I prefer Dreamer too. See my username? I created it even before I heard about MBTI. Dreamers look to what's possible and say "Why not?". Although some dreamers (myself included) have trouble acting on them, which I suppose is why today's vernacular insults them, there are those who have fought for them. Martin Luther King Jr. "had a dream" (although I'm not sure if he's NF), and Ghandi (INFJ according to Keirsey) freed his country without violence. Although I do like "Idealist" too; thankfully, Myers-Briggs gives me both titles. 

I personally like the term "Giver". It makes me think of people who are mature, not trapped by their own problems, to the point where they can readily help anyone in need, but I think "Teacher" is just as good too.

Though these are my own perspectives; I don't know the popular point of view regarding the titles.


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## LimeDegree (Mar 6, 2012)

I always look at these titles and envision the strengths related to the terms, never weaknesses.

I was picturing someone possibly coming down on another person for being a Dreamer or Idealist, and this pops into my head;* (SKIP TO THE 1:00 MARK)(Warning: may contain offensive language.)*


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## chimeric (Oct 15, 2011)

It's sad that the words "dreamer" and "idealist" have negative connotations for people. Don't get me wrong, they do for me too -- but they aren't bad things to be.


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

chimeric said:


> It's sad that the words "dreamer" and "idealist" have negative connotations for people. Don't get me wrong, they do for me too -- but they aren't bad things to be.


I have never seen these words used negatively myself. Guess I just live around cool people.

Now for the SJs:

"Duty Fulfiller" my ass. I'm more like Duty Oops-I-Should-Have-Fulfilled-Er. Who the hell wants to be a duty fufiller anyways.

"The Nuturers" Ooh, my personal servant! Just like Van Gogh, a great example of an ISF- :dry:

"The Guardians" Okay, that's pretty boss. Mostly the picture though. The other SJs are like "Lol clocks and baby cribs" and ESTJs are like "F**k that shit, I'm bringing my claymore"

"The Caregivers" WHAT IS THIS AN ESFJ YAY ESFJ REPRESENTATION-oh he hasn't posted in three months. :sad:


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## Tminus (Sep 16, 2011)

Razvan said:


> Well, it makes a lot of sense from what i keep reading about ENFJs, I care too about what others are feeling or thinking, but I'm sure the feeling within me is not as powerful as the feeling within an ENFJ. It also makes a lot of sense why I keep reading that ENFJs need to learn boundaries with this great quality, otherwise it will consume them.  Maybe you guys should learn a bit from us in this matter, to be more selective as to whose opinion you care about. I'm not saying you should change who you are, far from that, jsut learn to control your that great power of empathy you are talking about. :wink: There are a lot of negative people out there, regardless of type, even NFs, doesn't matter which type has the most, if you care too much of what people think, you will loose yourself (who you truly are) and that's definitely a bad thing. Plus some negative people just suck your energy dry without giving anything, these people are to be avoided at all costs. Seriously, I have met a few energy draining vampires, it's not cool at all.
> 
> 
> 
> I can imagine...unfortunately this is what war means...death, destruction and many other evil things, war is never meant to be pretty. :sad:


Your advice is so true. Its something that I have to make a conscious effort everyday to do. I think I spent the good portion of my 20's lost caring too much about others...to the point where I lost myself. It was a huge deal for me to recognize this about myself and try not to get everything good about me sucked away by negative people. I still however catch myself sometimes trying to understand and put myself in the shoes of those "energy sucking vampires" you speak of. Its somehow instinctual for me to care so deeply, even for people who wouldn't give a ounce back to me.


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## Razvan (Dec 17, 2009)

Tminus said:


> Your advice is so true. Its something that I have to make a conscious effort everyday to do. I think I spent the good portion of my 20's lost caring too much about others...to the point where I lost myself. It was a huge deal for me to recognize this about myself and try not to get everything good about me sucked away by negative people. I still however catch myself sometimes trying to understand and put myself in the shoes of those "energy sucking vampires" you speak of. Its somehow instinctual for me to care so deeply, even for people who wouldn't give a ounce back to me.


I can't tell you not to be yourself, because it would be wrong, just saying to be careful, I read a few times ENFJs have issues sometimes with setting some bondaries, for example to how much they give in an attempt to feed their Fe and get to be liked, I have the same problem at work only it's with trying to maintain a sense of harmony. Sometimes getting your hands dirty and being more rational is a good thing, but I do that only in extreme cases. I did things I shouldn't have done to protect some colleagues and did things I shouldn't have done to make a point, because I had no other solution, even if I was hating it while doing it, but I had reached a limit. It was a personal choice so I'm not saying you should do the same, but you should set some limits to how much you feed somebody with energy, for me, not obeying those limits (because I can't always do it) only results in me being stressed and irritable and even lashing out on innocent people in extreme cases. I have to be aware of the effects it does to me in order to control how much I do or give and being a Fi it's easy for me to care more about the health of my inner self.


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## Pom87 (Apr 7, 2012)

You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.


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## TitaniaRose (Oct 27, 2011)

Some of the names for particular type can probably be kind of a sweeping generalization that might not be accurate for everyone of that type. But I quite like what I've seen the NF temperament be labeled, I can't remember all the names - obviously Idealists, but also I've heard 'Catalysts' which I also like because it fits for me. I don't think I've seen an NF temperament that I didn't relate to, though I can't remember them all right now.


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## ShouldIGiveInYes (Feb 15, 2012)

I hate to be harsh, but maybe you're projecting your insecurity onto the descriptions?


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## happyrain (Apr 25, 2012)

I go from the Executive to the Field Marshall, I believe. I wouldn't really consider myself either of those. It makes me sound like a micromanager, which I am not.


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## chickydoda (Feb 12, 2010)

Not really, I don't take them seriously. I take offense that The Dreamers/ENFPs are listed last on the ''Community'' page, out of the personality types... maybe they are saving the best for last?


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## CoopV (Nov 6, 2011)

I'd take it with a grain of salt. I think mine is "the protector" which is funny because I don't go around trying to save people. Well maybe a bit lol. I'd call myself the "Spiritual, dreamer rebel" but that's too long 

I don't find being called a dreamer offensive at all. I actually think that's one of the best compliments I could get. Dreams are the most beautiful thing in the world. I feel sorry for some other types I've met that are so cut and dry and don't have the amazing worlds and stories I can endlessly conjure up in my mind. And with action involved I can achieve amazing things. Whereas those who don't have the dream to begin with don't often venture out of their comfort zones and live boring lives.


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## musicalmeggie (Sep 26, 2011)

I first hear about MBTI from my INTJ English teacher, who was talking about the Keirsey. While he loved being called a "Mastermind" and a "Rational" when my friends told me they thought I was an "Idealist" at first I rejected it. I don't know why, but for some reason I had trouble identifying with that term. Years later when I started getting into it again and took the test, I realized that they were right, I was an Idealist, and I was darn proud of it, after reading about them and studying up  I don't know if I agree with that term, though. I do like that ENFP's are called Inpirers, though. I guess because that's what I would like to be, someone who inspires people. But I guess different terms carry different connotations with everyone, so I can see why there is disagreement on this subject.


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## DreamBubble (Apr 29, 2012)

One of my friends disapproves of the whole personality type thing because she hates being "labelled". To be honest, let people call me what they want, so long as it's justified. I personally love the term "Dreamer", I think it gives the impression that you have come up with a world better that the one we live in, and you are imaginative. But to be honest, I'm a "Dreamer" all the way so I don't really mind being called one. As I said, I think it's justified.


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## Uncouth Angel (Nov 26, 2011)

I always thought "healer" made no particular sense. "Poet" is slightly better, and so is "Idealist" and "Dreamer", but neither are especially inspiring.


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## jennandtonic (Dec 1, 2011)

When I thought I was INFP I was kinda offended by the title of idealist because I think sometimes people see idealists as unrealistic.

Now that I'm pretty sure I'm an INFJ, the title "The Protector" is so apt for me. I am chill and usually let people do their thing, but when someone comes after someone I love, or when someone I love is going through a hard time, I go all Mama Bear. My mother says I've been that way since I was little.


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## Yomotsu Risouka (May 11, 2012)

I'm sort of envious of the INFJs. They get to be called the Protectors... I want to be called a Protector!

I guess I've done more inspiring than protecting, though... Blah.


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## Bremy (May 8, 2012)

Well someone has to be last doesn't mean you have to take offense to it..



chickydoda said:


> Not really, I don't take them seriously. I take offense that The Dreamers/ENFPs are listed last on the ''Community'' page, out of the personality types... maybe they are saving the best for last?


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

I guess I can understand that because dreaming implies that ur asleep or just somehow not paying attention to "reality". It applies to NFs because most NFs are seeking something better than the present reality. I thought of some alternate ideas though:
The Visionary Philosophers, the Imagineers, The Quixotic Sages....

That kinda makes NFs sound more like we're taking charge of our lives and our realities rather than just standing around daydreaming....


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## millestelle (Sep 8, 2010)

Actually, I find them really nice. Teachers, healers, counselors, champions... all of them sound like positive things to me - whether it matches me is something totally different. I agree that 'Dreamers' sounds a bit negative, like this person likes to think of things they can't really achieve or something along the line, while 'Idealists' still sounds positive.


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## Rinori (Apr 8, 2012)

I have no problem with being called "Dreamer" or "Idealist" I'm both.


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