# Are "science fairs" an exercise in privilege?



## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Excerpt:


> The experience turned out well, but it also left me queasy. The only reason Veronica was able to carry out her experiment was that I had the flexibility to spend hours struggling through paperwork, and because I had a social network of scientists I’ve developed as a science writer. This was an exercise in privilege.
> 
> If Veronica had been the daughter of a single parent with a couple jobs and no connections to the world of science — if she had been like a lot of American kids, in other words — her idea would have gone up in smoke. She might not have even bothered thinking about the science fair at all.


https://www.statnews.com/2016/04/13/science-fairs-white-house/


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## Vast Silence (Apr 23, 2014)

Shut up. -__-

No they aren't exercises in privilege. You don't have to spend money to participate. In fact, if you REALLY needed money for parts, you could always use social media like go-fund-me to raise funds.

People that cry about lack of privilege are spoiled and lazy fucks that are simply human leeches on society.

Its simple: If you really want something to happen you keep going after it until it does.

So to answer your question, No.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Yes, but what does that mean? Is it bad?


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## Razare (Apr 21, 2009)

Even if you don't win and you got a crappy project, I think it's good to learn to do projects like this.

The actual science behind them is sort of like a side-point to the whole thing.

A kid gets to make a project, and then they get to show adults what they did.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

My parents were busy and not very good bakers, does that make bake sales an exercise in privilege?

This is silly. Just because somebody has a leg up in a particular thing because their parents happen to do that thing, doesn't make the thing bad.

EDIT - I understand that kids who have wealthy parents are going to have opportunities that kids from lower income families won't. I have no problem pouring money into science and art programs so that all kids get a chance to explore their interests. That being said, I'm tired of everything being called privilege. It's becoming a useless buzzword that will very soon mean absolutely nothing. Is everything beneficial to me, privilege?


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## dragthewaters (Feb 9, 2013)

I think they definitely are to some extent. In 7th and 8th grade we had a mandatory science project, but they gave us the choice between doing a science experiment or a research project.

I grew up with a dysfunctional family (and it just so happened, the peak of our dysfunctionality, involving social services and all that, was when I was in 7th and 8th grade). We also had a very small and cramped apartment, already way too small to fit four people, three of whom who were constantly fighting with each other. We didn't have a backyard or really any extra space. My mother also threw a fit whenever anything happened that was outside the ordinary routine of things, or there were any new complications to her life. Especially if it was something that had the potential to make any kind of a mess.

I knew that I definitely would not have been allowed to do even the least intrusive of science projects, at least not without a lot of screaming if any mess was made or any other complications arose as a result of it. So I chose a research project instead, for both years. I worked about as hard on my project as anyone else in 7th grade, and in 8th grade I feel that I went above and beyond (the project was on general relativity) and even spent most of my winter break on it. However, I only got mediocre grades on both projects, and I think the reason was that a research project was seen as being "the lazy way out" compared to an experiment. Also, the students who were selected to display their projects to the entire school pretty much all did actual experiments.

In the case of this article, even more privilege is being displayed than what I'm describing. His daughter got access to resources that 99.9% of people her age would never be allowed to access. I don't remember specifically if anyone at my school did a project that would have required access to a working lab, but I know some people in my class had parents who worked in labs, so I wouldn't rule it out. While it's good that she learned from the experience, I don't know if it's ok for that level of parental involvement to be present for something that's being graded against other students.

I think if science fair projects are going to be done at that age, maybe they should be done in the school labs, so everyone has access to the same materials and spaces.


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

Snowy Leopard said:


> Excerpt:
> 
> 
> https://www.statnews.com/2016/04/13/science-fairs-white-house/


i don't think so. i mean, couldn't she have asked her science teacher for help with the paperwork and/or lab portion of the experiment? it raises a good point though, as far as the competition aspect of science fairs go. those with money or parent helpers will have an advantage, but that goes with a lot of aspects of school in general i think. just how it is..


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Katfeatherfoot said:


> Shut up. -__-
> 
> No they aren't exercises in privilege. You don't have to spend money to participate. In fact, if you REALLY needed money for parts, you could always use social media like go-fund-me to raise funds.
> 
> ...


I am getting sick of it as well. it's one think if you to talk about privilege with regards to racism or the educational opportunities, but when people start dragging the topic of privilege into a fucking science fair.......what the hell, just shut up already :laughing:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> My parents were busy and not very good bakers, does that make bake sales an exercise in privilege?
> 
> This is silly. Just because somebody has a leg up in a particular thing because their parents happen to do that thing, doesn't make the thing bad.
> 
> EDIT - I understand that kids who have wealthy parents are going to have opportunities that kids from lower income families won't. I have no problem pouring money into science and art programs so that all kids get a chance to explore their interests. That being said, I'm tired of everything being called privilege. It's becoming a useless buzzword that will very soon mean absolutely nothing. Is everything beneficial to me, privilege?


bingo (education is one of the few areas for which I support very liberal spending). there is a point where it just because petty and downright disrespectful. peeps be yelling "check your privilege" every time you actually show initiative and accomplish something (which is ironic, because it's the lazy people who do nothing with their privilege who are the ones that really need to check it, not the ones who are smart and grateful enough to actually use it)


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

BlackDog said:


> EDIT - I understand that kids who have wealthy parents are going to have opportunities that kids from lower income families won't. I have no problem pouring money into science and art programs so that all kids get a chance to explore their interests. That being said, I'm tired of everything being called privilege. It's becoming a useless buzzword that will very soon mean absolutely nothing. Is everything beneficial to me, privilege?


The paperwork alongside the aforementioned science-fair basically meant you had to have access to a scientific lab before the child could do any sort of serious scientific experiment. How many children have parents who can pull those kinds of favours?


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## puzzled (Mar 15, 2016)

If anything it's a privilege _not_ to go to these things.


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## s2theizay (Nov 12, 2014)

dragthewaters said:


> In the case of this article, even more privilege is being displayed than what I'm describing. His daughter got access to resources that 99.9% of people her age would never be allowed to access. I don't remember specifically if anyone at my school did a project that would have required access to a working lab, but I know some people in my class had parents who worked in labs, so I wouldn't rule it out. While it's good that she learned from the experience, *I don't know if it's ok for that level of parental involvement to be present for something that's being graded against other students*.
> 
> I think if science fair projects are going to be done at that age, maybe they should be done in the school labs, so everyone has access to the same materials and spaces.


I strongly agree with this. I don't think the situation necessarily reflected one where someone benefited from some "privilege". That could imply that there was an unconscious bias at work. I think there is too much pressure on creating something spectacular and "winning" and that could take away some of the educational value of a science fair. I don't think that it's wrong for parents to be involved to some degree, but I do think their involvement should be seriously limited. Otherwise, the judging is tilted into the favor of the child with more resources, but not always more ability.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Snowy Leopard said:


> Excerpt:
> 
> 
> https://www.statnews.com/2016/04/13/science-fairs-white-house/


dude, it is called science "fair" and not science "unfair" for a reason!!


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## Hurricane Matthew (Nov 9, 2012)

jfc the term "privilege" is such a cancer it's even attacking kids' science fairs now. I remember the days when I did science fair every year and those were all done with common things I could find around the house and I did well enough to win a lot of ribbons/science-y prizes. All it takes is a little bit of creativity and good ideas to do well with what you have available to you, but oh... maybe I have... creativity privilege??!!


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

Matvey said:


> jfc the term "privilege" is such a cancer it's even attacking kids' science fairs now. I remember the days when I did science fair every year and those were all done with common things I could find around the house and I did well enough to win a lot of ribbons/science-y prizes. All it takes is a little bit of creativity and good ideas to do well with what you have available to you, but oh... maybe I have... creativity privilege??!!


It may depend on when you grew up and where you live, but the key point of the article was that the restrictive terms and conditions of participating in the fair in question, basically meant that you had to have access to a professional science lab to do anything serious.


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## Hurricane Matthew (Nov 9, 2012)

Snowy Leopard said:


> It may depend on when you grew up and where you live, but the key point of the article was that the restrictive terms and conditions of participating in the fair in question, basically meant that you had to have access to a professional science lab to do anything serious.


It must be a rich kid's school or something because there's no way the author of that article is describing a typical, public school science fair. Nobody would enter if that was the case. The whole point of a public school science fair is to make science _accessible_. I guarantee her story is far from the norm and since she has a problem with it, she needs to take it up with her daughter's school and complain there.

EDIT: After reading the article again, it sounds a lot like those posts you see made by Tumblr SJWs where they take a story that is an unusual, single incident, dramaticize it and make it sound like there's a trend when there isn't one. I'm taking it with a grain of salt, tbh.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

BlackDog said:


> That being said, I'm tired of everything being called privilege. It's becoming a useless buzzword that will very soon mean absolutely nothing. Is everything beneficial to me, privilege?


Isn't having parents with money and connections, like, the default definition of privilege?


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

Matvey said:


> jfc the term "privilege" is such a cancer it's even attacking kids' science fairs now. I remember the days when I did science fair every year and those were all done with common things I could find around the house and I did well enough to win a lot of ribbons/science-y prizes. All it takes is a little bit of creativity and good ideas to do well with what you have available to you, but oh... maybe I have... creativity privilege??!!


Well, yes. And it would be problematic if you'd act like everyone can be very intelligent/creative but they don't want to.


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## BlackDog (Jan 6, 2012)

Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar said:


> Isn't having parents with money and connections, like, the default definition of privilege?


Yes. But there's also white privilege, cis privilege, male privilege, attractive people privilege, able-body privilege...

Calling science fairs an exercise in privilege is silly because just about anything could be. Hockey practice is an exercise in privilege. Bake sales are an exercise in privilege. Summer camp is an exercise in privilege. Any situation that allows for some people to have an advantage over others in some way is privilege.


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## Arzazar Szubrasznikarazar (Apr 9, 2015)

BlackDog said:


> Yes. But there's also white privilege, cis privilege, male privilege, attractive people privilege, able-body privilege...
> 
> Calling science fairs an exercise in privilege is silly because just about anything could be. Hockey practice is an exercise in privilege. Bake sales are an exercise in privilege. Summer camp is an exercise in privilege. Any situation that allows for some people to have an advantage over others in some way is privilege.


Yes. They can also be state subsidized and not a privilege for wealthy people.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

what really pisses me off about this is the use of the phrase "exercising privilege". that used to be called "taking advantage of what you have", "making use of resources" and "taking initiative". people used to be praised for such activities, and they were seen as a source of pride and high character. now people are made to feel _ashamed_ of these sorts of activities.....that's fucking disgusting. this trend needs to die yesterday.


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## yet another intj (Feb 10, 2013)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> Yes, but what does that mean? Is it bad?


Even more importantly can it run Crysis? Not everybody have high-end graphic cards.

Seriously, science as a discipline, could be taught and learned without being rich. It's nothing but knowledge about "the nature of things" and there's internet. In the other hand, science fairs are nothing but iknowitall swagger. I don't take them seriously in a sense of educational opportunity and enforcing budget limitations/providing welfare for repeating whatever ridiculous backyard experiment over and over again won't make anything better. After all, nobody discovered or learned anything genuine from The Pinewood Derby.

They should teach kids to respect science. Not loving it as a hobby to feed the little genius complex.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

yet another intj said:


> Even more importantly can it run Crysis? Not everybody have high end graphic cards.


I am surprised if I can reply to this post. It seems that this site requires more RAM than ever. Let us see if this will suffice.


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## BlackMoonlight (Oct 16, 2012)

Science in general is like this. there's a reason we don't see as many women and minorities in science. People learn to prioritize different things based on their economic circumstances. Going into academia may not be a priority to people from low income families because simple survival is more important. But the same people under different circumstances may very well want to become scientists if that goal seemed attainable. I think the point a few people in this discussion are missing is that even if a science fair or science in general is open to everyone, that doesn't mean everyone will be encouraged or able to get involved.


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## eclecticbill (Jan 11, 2013)

Uhm, ok...I have a 12 year old extended family niece who was home schooled by a disabled single father. She is very bright, intelligent and funny; and she want's to be a neurosurgeon (not surprising, given her dad's disability). This last year she wanted to go into public education to start the 7th grade for more of the social stuff; after testing they said "nope, you're going to highschool", she's now a freshman due to graduate at 16. I have pledged to her my financial support though it will be a long road and I may not be around at the end (pre-med, med, 1 year surgical residency, 5-7 years neurosurgery residency, and the number of years it could take to get into med school (average 5000 applicants, 500 interviewed, 100 accepted per year/per school)).

Her family doesn't have money and I am setting up a trust for her with mine. If she succeeds is there any privilege in there? The only privilege I see is having been a part of that family for 35 years and giving a little back.

EDIT: I should note that the family is more than the father and daughter, there are uncles and grandmother in her life every day. I guess that might be privilege /sarcasm.


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## broken_line (Apr 23, 2016)

Who cares if it is or isn't, people who have been lucky in life can't be expected to just throw away what they were given in order to make life fair.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron


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