# Confirming My Type?



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

On a more serious note, did you consider ISFJ?


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## bookbutterfly (Jul 15, 2012)

@hornet: Ah, but Ne's are awesome folks! If it weren't for Ne we wouldn't have a lot of the theories we have now...Einstein was an Ne user, from what I understand! I think the ENTP's test was kind of fun and interesting though, heh.  

(If you guys wanted an example of what I do when I disagree about something, this is how I do it. Hehe.  )

Also: thanks for the loop thread! I do relate to a lot of the aspects of the Ni-Ti loop, especially the part about coming up with ideas and never putting them into action (why do you think I have such difficulty getting whole novels written up even though I have so many ideas for books?  ). What's also interesting, however, is I relate to the description of Fi/Si loops...as I stated in my first post, I think I have AvPD, and that description really rings true, but I'm not sure whether that's because I've actually experience an Fi/Si loop (maybe from shadow functions emerging at a time when I was really stressed?), or just from AvPD, which can happen in any type (my ISFJ mom says that she thinks she might have some of its symptoms, too).
@LeaT: Hm...couldn't it sort of be tert-Ti, too? I've been trying to figure it out in my head, but I also wanted it affirmed from more or less "tangible" info based on what I had to say as an individual from others who have more experience with this than I do (possible Se?). But...hahaha, ESFJ? Ohh, yes, I can definitely see that. Mm-hmm!


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## bookbutterfly (Jul 15, 2012)

@hornet: Thanks again! 
@LeaT: I have, actually...my mom is one, and though I see ways we're alike, we're also quite, quite different...do my posts seem more sensor-like or intuitive?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

The problem is that that I'm wondering if you're more in an NeFe loop than an NiTi loop. It should be noted that all types can exhibit any kind of loop. Out of personal experience I'm tentative to say that SiFi and TiFi are the worst ones. I can somehow deal with the NiTi paranoia. 

I think the fact I managed to sway your opinion so easily would indicate that you're using Fe with Ne right now, not Ni. Ni is quite settled on what to think and believe already and simply seeks confirmation using Fe. 

I mean, if you want an example of INFJ rigidity, you can compare to the character Morpheus in The Matrix. There's nothing that can sway his opinions and he only picks data that fits his internal worldview that Neo is The One. He even disregards data that might not fit the model by simply telling others to not tell him at all. 

Here's the thing: Ne users observe first, draw conclusions later. 

Last but not least, enneagram can really affect MBTI type. Furthermore, individual development also means that people of the same type can still be vastly different. MBTI is more of a one-size fits all model. We use the type that fits but types does not define.


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## bookbutterfly (Jul 15, 2012)

@LeaT: Hm...if you mean the NeFe loop as described in the link Hornet sent me, that's completely foreign to me. O__O I guess I like approval and such (who doesn't?), but I don't go out of my way to seek it.

But to be honest, I wouldn't quite say my opinion is swayed easily...I'd like confirmation for what I think is true, but I am willing to accept what is the correct answer. I have an idea of what I think is true, but I will give in for the sake of accuracy. I really view the MBTI as something fun and almost like a hobby that can help me grow in the future, so for that reason, I want to make sure I'm right. However, there are other things that I would be less willing to (or would not at all) back down on (these include the aforementioned religious and political beliefs, of course). I have often been mistaken for being a pushover, because I'm willing to maintain the harmony in a group, but it doesn't mean I'm compromising anything I truly believe in. (And then again, I've been called extremely stubborn.  )

I can give an examples of a time I had pretty rigid conclusions without too much observation. (I've given this example before in other places around PerC as well, so if they sound familiar to anyone, that's why. ;P ) Last year, I was trying to choose which college I would attend in the fall. It was between School A and School B. School A wasn't giving me aid, but School B was; however, School B has a reputation for being a party school--not my cup of tea. I just KNEW I'd hate it. My parents (both sensors) kept saying, "But you don't know whether it's really like that--you haven't even been there! Let's visit and then we'll see whether it's really like that." I told them that I knew we didn't have to visit. I knew how it'd be, and I'd hate it. School A would be a much better choice. I didn't know why I thought that. I just did. All I knew was School A has a better reputation, and School B not so much, but those could very well have been stereotypes generated by the media or what not. I ended up going to School A, after much convincing with my parents. And you know what? It turned out School A WAS a much better choice, not just socially, but even financially. Even though School A originally didn't offer aid, they did offer me a grant, and, in addition, the overall cost was thousands and thousands much lower than School B. And we had originally though School B would be a much cheaper option.



LeaT said:


> Last but not least, enneagram can really affect MBTI type. Furthermore, individual development also means that people of the same type can still be vastly different. MBTI is more of a one-size fits all model. We use the type that fits but types does not define.


I competely agree. I'm a 1w2, and after taking the PerC test and looking into the types, I'm pretty sure I'm a 1w2-2w1-6w5 so/sp (so probably a 126 tritype). What makes MBTI more confusing, I think, is when one's shadow functions are developed, or when they've possibly been influenced by certain types (say parents--I do think your parent or guardian's type can affect the way you carry out your cognitive functions). Of all the introverts I know (from INFJs to INFPs to ISTJs to ISFJs), I think I'm definitely much quieter than them and am less likely to show or tell everything that I'm thinking and feeling (perhaps because I find that there is a tendency for my close friends and family to tell me everything to the point where I sometimes feel like I'm an at-home therapist, haha), and though I can be chatty with close, close friends, I otherwise clam up very easily. I think I still have a long way to go in my type development, so hopefully one day I'll completely grow out of my quietness (and thus lending to my own confusion at times about whether my feeling is introverted or extroverted), and then it'll all be much, much clearer to me.


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## Celebok (Jun 21, 2012)

This is my first time returning to the "What's My Personality Type" forum since using it myself to determine my type nearly a month ago. I see some similarities between this thread and mine, where people went back and forth on the orientation of the functions. I used the same questionnaire, too.

It's good that people are considering dom-tert loops as possible explanations. However, I'd like to mention another possibility that I don't see discussed very much, and was actually the main cause of my mistyping: *personas*. Sometimes people unconsciously take on the behaviors of others in order to be accepted or valued by the people in their lives (parents, teachers, bosses, co-workers, friends, or whoever). When this happens, their behaviors and values reflect a *persona*, which actually masks their true personality. This was the case with me -- throughout my childhood and the early years of my adult life, my mom instilled some very SJ-like values in me, to the point that the typical ISTJ description matched the type of person I believed I was, so I often tested as ISTJ. 

Then when I filled out the same questionnaire mentioned in this thread, people went back and forth typing me as ISTJ and ISTP. Some saw me use Ti, Se, and Ni, while others saw me use Si, Te, and Ne. What was happening was that I was using whatever functions I'd been trained to use in the scenarios presented. And since this particular questionnaire asks a lot of "what would you do in this situation" questions and a lot of "what's important to you" questions, it becomes hard to separate a persona from the true personality when a persona is affecting the person's behaviors and values. Once I finally figured out that my ISTJ-like values were basically learned from my parents, I was able to clearly see that my preferred functions were Ti+Se+Ni+Fe: an ISTP.

Here's a video that does a good job of explaining how a persona can cause someone to be mistyped:




(You can skip to the 5 min mark if you don't want to watch a 7-minute video.)
@bookbutterfly, I don't know if you grew up with any external factors that might've influenced your behaviors and values that are reflected in your answers to this questionnaire, but it's something to consider.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Celebok said:


> This is my first time returning to the "What's My Personality Type" forum since using it myself to determine my type nearly a month ago. I see some similarities between this thread and mine, where people went back and forth on the orientation of the functions. I used the same questionnaire, too.
> 
> It's good that people are considering dom-tert loops as possible explanations. However, I'd like to mention another possibility that I don't see discussed very much, and was actually the main cause of my mistyping: *personas*. Sometimes people unconsciously take on the behaviors of others in order to be accepted or valued by the people in their lives (parents, teachers, bosses, co-workers, friends, or whoever). When this happens, their behaviors and values reflect a *persona*, which actually masks their true personality. This was the case with me -- throughout my childhood and the early years of my adult life, my mom instilled some very SJ-like values in me, to the point that the typical ISTJ description matched the type of person I believed I was, so I often tested as ISTJ.
> 
> ...


I am highly aware of this, which is why I only focus on seeing the hidden meanings in what people say rather than what they say. If they say they like flowers, I'm going to look for how liking flowers might fit into a larger pattern. Personas might confuse but they cannot take control.

Oh crap. What a weird deja vu moment.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

bookbutterfly said:


> @_LeaT_: Hm...if you mean the NeFe loop as described in the link Hornet sent me, that's completely foreign to me. O__O I guess I like approval and such (who doesn't?), but I don't go out of my way to seek it.
> 
> But to be honest, I wouldn't quite say my opinion is swayed easily...I'd like confirmation for what I think is true, but I am willing to accept what is the correct answer. I have an idea of what I think is true, but I will give in for the sake of accuracy. I really view the MBTI as something fun and almost like a hobby that can help me grow in the future, so for that reason, I want to make sure I'm right. However, there are other things that I would be less willing to (or would not at all) back down on (these include the aforementioned religious and political beliefs, of course). I have often been mistaken for being a pushover, because I'm willing to maintain the harmony in a group, but it doesn't mean I'm compromising anything I truly believe in. (And then again, I've been called extremely stubborn.  )
> 
> ...


This post is weird because I also se NeFi trying to convince me almost as much as trying to convince yourself, but I also get very strong Fe vibes. I'm still wondering whether you truly are Ni dom. There's something that doesn't quite convince me about it.


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## bookbutterfly (Jul 15, 2012)

@_Celebok_: Thanks for the video! I really related to what she was saying about NJ children and SJ parents. My parents are both sensors (ISFJ mom, ISTP dad), and I'm very close to my mom. There are a lot of ways that we're different, but outwardly, I think we're very similar in our interactions with people. Also, I've had some past experiences that come up when I'm really stressed out and that practically haunt me that probably lends to this "persona" of Si, either as an INFP or ISFJ.

Perhaps these are reasons why, @_LeaT_, you don't sense Ni. Maybe my Ni isn't quite as well-developed as it can potentially be like other INFJs (with intuitive parents). Also, and please don't be offended by my saying this, but perhaps the reason why you see a lot of Ne in me is because you yourself are an Ne-user. I know I'm guilty of doing this when I type famous people and fictional characters, and even friends and family. I tend to automatically assume that many of them have Ni somewhere in their first four stackings. Again, I mean no offense, but psychological projection happens to everybody. I actually don't see how I have Ne at all. The times I feel like I have Ne comes up but once in awhile, and that would only be because I like seeing things from different angles and imagining the possibilities, but when, for example, I think of ideas for stories or what-not, it comes as one cohesive whole all of a sudden, and I think that's more the trademark of an Ni. And then again, maybe my Ni isn't so apparent because I've still got more to develop out (and I most certainly don't think I'm an ENFJ, ISTP, or ESTP).

Also, isn't working under pressure and thinking on your feet more of Se coming into view? Just wondering...

ETA: It might be of interest to take a look at the Enneagram questionnaire I filled out. Actually, while I was writing it, I was thinking of how much Ni some of my answers (particularly for the last question) sounded. Thoughts?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

bookbutterfly said:


> @_Celebok_: Thanks for the video! I really related to what she was saying about NJ children and SJ parents. My parents are both sensors (ISFJ mom, ISTP dad), and I'm very close to my mom. There are a lot of ways that we're different, but outwardly, I think we're very similar in our interactions with people. Also, I've had some past experiences that come up when I'm really stressed out and that practically haunt me that probably lends to this "persona" of Si, either as an INFP or ISFJ.
> 
> Perhaps these are reasons why, @_LeaT_, you don't sense Ni. Maybe my Ni isn't quite as well-developed as it can potentially be like other INFJs (with intuitive parents). Also, and please don't be offended by my saying this, but perhaps the reason why you see a lot of Ne in me is because you yourself are an Ne-user. I know I'm guilty of doing this when I type famous people and fictional characters, and even friends and family. I tend to automatically assume that many of them have Ni somewhere in their first four stackings. Again, I mean no offense, but psychological projection happens to everybody. I actually don't see how I have Ne at all. The times I feel like I have Ne comes up but once in awhile, and that would only be because I like seeing things from different angles and imagining the possibilities, but when, for example, I think of ideas for stories or what-not, it comes as one cohesive whole all of a sudden, and I think that's more the trademark of an Ni. And then again, maybe my Ni isn't so apparent because I've still got more to develop out (and I most certainly don't think I'm an ENFJ, ISTP, or ESTP).
> 
> Also, isn't working under pressure and thinking on your feet more of Se coming into view? Just wondering...


Don't think it's a projection really. I'm pretty good at typing people and my gut reactions are not always right but they are usually right on track somewhere. I've learnt to trust it for this reason. It's not that I want people to be Ne users. I in fact work with the mindset that the first thing I check for is sensing, because sensors are more common than intuitives. The F an T divide is fairly simple to spot in most people unless they're stuck in loops. It's just a gut feeling that I have. I just see how you use your functions in combination and you seem to prefer NeFi at least in these posts. And what you describe is not necessarily Ni at work where ideas coalesce like that, but can in fact be several functions working together. 

What I'm truly wondering is why you seek out a forum to confirm your type if you're in an NiTi loop. That's not how NiTi actually works because NiTi is a closed system. If you do this you're seeking external data. There is disagreement. The data you are seeking is also definitely Fe data.


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

LeaT said:


> On a more serious note, did you consider ISFJ?


:shocked: Don't steal her away from the INFJ club!


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Crono91 said:


> :shocked: Don't steal her away from the INFJ club!


So what do you think then?


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## bookbutterfly (Jul 15, 2012)

@LeaT: Again, I meant no offense, and please don't think of it as an ad hominem. Perhaps I don't understand Ni and Ne clearly, but from what I've read from Personality Junkie, the descriptions there (particularly of INTJ Stephen King's writing process--unless you have a good argument that he is actually an Ne user) of Ni clicked with me much more than Ne did. I actually see the fact that my ideas coalesce as Ni-Se working together rather than Ne-Si...

Maybe since I'm under stress, NiTi loop aside, the aspects of my shadow functions come through more (your sensing Ne and Fi, plus external stimuli, Te)? Considering I did already start posting under INFJ forums as an INFJ, and didn't think about confirming my type until later (and I did that more for kicks and just to see what others say)...anyway, I did once ask an INFJ here whether they thought I didn't seem like one, and they responded that they though I most definitely was one. I have an INFP friend whom I see nothing of myself in...whereas all my INFJ friends are very, very similar to me (to the point of one of them calling me her "soul sister"--we've actually had some lengthy conversations about INFJs and the doorslam, which we are much too familiar with).


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

LeaT said:


> So what do you think then?


Haha I don't know I haven't all the new posts yet. At first she seemed INFJ-ie with a heavy S. I'll have to read the new posts to decide  But I'm almost sure that you can peg your personality better than me.


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## bookbutterfly (Jul 15, 2012)

Crono91 said:


> :shocked: Don't steal her away from the INFJ club!


HAHAHAHA, Crono91, you crack me up! ;D I'm curious though...what about me made me seem like an S?  (I can only think of being occasionally practical--the keyword is occasionally  --but I live in a house full of sensors, and I definitely don't work the way they do  )


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

bookbutterfly said:


> @_LeaT_: Again, I meant no offense, and please don't think of it as an ad hominem. Perhaps I don't understand Ni and Ne clearly, but from what I've read from Personality Junkie, the descriptions there (particularly of INTJ Stephen King's writing process--unless you have a good argument that he is actually an Ne user) of Ni clicked with me much more than Ne did. I actually see the fact that my ideas coalesce as Ni-Se working together rather than Ne-Si...
> 
> Maybe since I'm under stress, NiTi loop aside, the aspects of my shadow functions come through more (your sensing Ne and Fi, plus external stimuli, Te)? Considering I did already start posting under INFJ forums as an INFJ, and didn't think about confirming my type until later (and I did that more for kicks and just to see what others say)...anyway, I did once ask an INFJ here whether they thought I didn't seem like one, and they responded that they though I most definitely was one. I have an INFP friend whom I see nothing of myself in...whereas all my INFJ friends are very, very similar to me (to the point of one of them calling me her "soul sister"--we've actually had some lengthy conversations about INFJs and the doorslam, which we are much too familiar with).


Definitely not ruling out INFJ as a possibility. It was my second bet after INFP. Your functions are very weird and jumbled in general. I don't think you use Te for confirmation though but Fe. You want to hear opinions, not generate threads with data that you can compare to each other. 

And I do want to add that I jumped over much of your OP because I saw SiNeFi in the first portion or so and I saw hornet's initial post and I trusted hornet 

SeNi is more about looking at sensory details that allows Ni to create a system.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

bookbutterfly said:


> HAHAHAHA, Crono91, you crack me up! ;D I'm curious though...what about me made me seem like an S?  (I can only think of being occasionally practical--the keyword is occasionally  --but I live in a house full of sensors, and I definitely don't work the way they do  )


It's the Si I assume.


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## bookbutterfly (Jul 15, 2012)

@LeaT: I definitely agree my functions are bizarre...very oddly jumbled. I sometimes feel like there is some INFP, ISFJ, and INTJ all mixed together inside me.  (But that's interesting to hear that I'm most definitely not a Te-user...for years and years, I was dead certain I was an INTJ only because I think I can logical...and again, I think that was a time I was developing out Ti and had a bruised Fe).

Heheheh, I don't blame you for skipping over my OP. Brave is he who conquered that fearsome colossus of text!  In all seriousness, I probably would have done the same, or skimmed. (I actually thought the reason you saw Fi was in the last answer I wrote, however, on the Spades questionnaire, I believe it's called.) It may have escaped your notice (but probably not), but I also added a link to my Enneagram questionnaire that I personally thought was rather Ni-esque.  

Well, considering my Se is ridiculously low...I miss sensory details greatly. It took me about three weeks to notice my parents changed around the whole set-up in the fridge. *facepalm*


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

I think it has to do with your type A personality. Most INFJs see the big picture and they stop caring when people use a ton of details (which is why a lot of INTP threads tend to bore me and I always reply with. "So I haven't read all the posts but here is my thought" xD (Hehe, @LeaT) 

But you sometimes get caught up on the details (which can happen to INFJs if they are type A I'm guessing (I view type 1 as Type A). And the reason why I didn't peg you as S is because I'm 2w1, so I know that I like details once in a while, so I figured your type made you like them a lot; thus, you were an INFJ with a heavy Si.


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## bookbutterfly (Jul 15, 2012)

Crono91 said:


> I think it has to do with your type A personality. Most INFJs see the big picture and they stop caring when people use a ton of details (which is why a lot of INTP threads tend to bore me and I always reply with. "So I haven't read all the posts but here is my thought" xD
> 
> But you sometimes get caught up on the details (which can happen to INFJs if they are type A I'm guessing (I view type 1 as Type A). And the reason why I didn't peg you as S is because I'm 2w1, so I know that I like details once in a while, so I figured your type made you like them a lot; thus, you were an INFJ with a heavy Si.


Intewesting, intewesting...I can see this. (Haha, yes, I've often likened Type One to Type A ;D ) I sometimes get really caught up in details, and I can remember details very well (even better than my mom, though lately my brain's been wonky and I mixed up two very famous actresses' names *facepalm*--'twas rather embarassing); in a case like reading threads, unless they're like five years old and have 98783515794532 posts on them already, I try reading (i.e., forcing myself to read) most of the posts so I can get a feel for what people are talking about and I'm not rudely butting into somebody's convy or discussion or tangent.  Also, I have Type Six somewhere as my second or third Enneagram type, and that's commonly associated with sensors, so I can definitely see the strong Si.

But I don't think I'm an ISFJ...I have an ISFJ friend and, as I've mentioned many a time, my mom is one, and their interaction styles are VERY different from mine...whenever my mom and I watch a video or show or whatever, she'll instantly start making comments about the costumes and how she thinks it's ugly or pretty or whatever, and I'll just be super invested in the story and just immerse myself into the whole thing as if I'm there. It has to REALLY stand out for me to comment on what someone's wearing. (And in that way, I feel like a very odd girl, since stereotypically females are supposed to nag at other people's clothes. *eye roll* Whatever.)


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