# Being ugly and treated like shit? (FEMALES)



## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

If you consider yourself unattractive, do you notice that people in general treat you with less respect?

For example, last night in a store, an employee with boxes walked into me from behind (without alerting me), causing me to stumble. Without excusing himself (or apologizing like a normal person), he just kept walking on.

I walked up to him and told him that it was rude to knock me over and not even say excuse me. He snapped that I was "in the way". 

I ended up reporting him to the store manager.

And then, later, I had someone just cut in line in front of me.

I don't know for sure whether I'm ugly or not, but it seems to be confirmed by the way everyone treats me like shit.

I'm skinny and I dress decently, so I guess I just have an ugly face. I don't know. It sucks that just because I'm not Holly Madison, I have to go through life like this, and there's nothing I can do about it, because it's clearly just bad genetics.

/Fi overload


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## GoodOldDreamer (Sep 8, 2011)

I'm pretty sure it has more to do with people being self absorbed and in their own lil' worlds than it has to do with you. A lot of people are either unaware of or unconcerned with those around them. Someone cuts you off in line, it's because they're "busy" or "in a hurry" or "too impatient to wait another half a minute". Or, they just like being jerks and annoying the hell out of anyone they can.

Same goes for the guy who bumped into you. He was busy doing other things, and didn't care about anyone around him. He probably doesn't much care for his job, so he's only concerned about customers as far as his job requires him to be. Maybe his job doesn't even require him to interact with customers much at all, so he doesn't care. *shrug*

I've been in retail for a few years now. It's the worst place to observe humanity. People just don't care about anything but themselves in a store. I dunno why that is. They just wanna do what it is they're there to do, and that's it. They're not ignoring you or being rude to you because you're ugly, or hell, because you're even there to be rude to. You're just another obstacle or distraction to them, that's it.


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## ChazBomb (May 10, 2011)

GoodOldDreamer said:


> I've been in retail for a few years now. It's the worst place to observe humanity. People just don't care about anything but themselves in a store. I dunno why that is. They just wanna do what it is they're there to do, and that's it. They're not ignoring you or being rude to you because you're ugly, or hell, because you're even there to be rude to. You're just another obstacle or distraction to them, that's it.


Exactly! 

I don't need to know you personally to be able to say that the problem is most definitely NOT you, but I can see how you may feel that it is. Let other people's problems remain just that - other people's problems. Someone or something can only upset you if you allow it to! Don't let a few jerks who are having a crappy day ruin YOUR day and self worth *hugs*


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

I'm not saying that the posts above me are wrong because they're not. There's truth to them, but on a side note, I'm pretty sure I've read a shit ton of statistics about how pretty people are more likely to be treated better than those who are less fortunate in the genetics department.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

OP: Like others have said, I wouldn't automatically assume it's "you." Typically people are just really self-focused and even self-absorbed. There's a lot of crap that's easy to take on a personal level that's really about the other person, not about you at all.

As far as how people deal with women, though, I do think that in general the prettier someone is, the more attention and goodwill they'll get (at least up to a point, after which guys might consider her "out of their league" and totally ignore her and women might just scorn her). Women who are physically unattractive might have it harder; however, I think a physically unattractive woman who has an engaging personality can basically bump herself up into "average" category and not be any worse for wear.

I've had some insecurities at times about my appearance, and essentially I learned to be more engaging and take a proactive approach to dealing with people, to put my best attributes (my mind, my articulateness, my acceptance of others) out there as soon as possible so that I'm not just being judged on appearance.


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## adizzy (Aug 6, 2011)

Easy...easy....I am guessing you are a girl because you asked for female opinions...as a side note sent me a pic privately and i will tell you honestly if you are ugly or not...but I think you are jumping to conclusions. Whats more important is your attitude. You can't keep punching yourself everytime something doesn't go your way. You are going to make yourself miserable for no good reason.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Nah, there are plenty of other reasons people treat me like shit. Very rarely is it for being ugly anymore, because I have learned how to select my friends more carefully than I used to. I have no tolerance at all for looks-based discrimination, and I make that fact known without any hesitation.

Usually when people disrespect me, it is for being passionate about my values. I can come across as aggressive or intimidating when people don't know me well, or at the other extreme, when something is troubling me, I can seem so vulnerable that people think they can get away with acting aggressively toward me. Other people tend to perceive having strong feelings either as an attack or as an act of submission, depending on how I express those feelings, and whichever they believe, neither is acceptable to them. The reasons for my feelings are rarely even taken into account.


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

snail said:


> Nah, there are plenty of other reasons people treat me like shit. Very rarely is it for being ugly anymore, because I have learned how to select my friends more carefully than I used to. I have no tolerance at all for looks-based discrimination, and I make that fact known without any hesitation.
> 
> Usually when people disrespect me, it is for being passionate about my values. I can come across as aggressive or intimidating when people don't know me well, or at the other extreme, when something is troubling me, I can seem so vulnerable that people think they can get away with acting aggressively toward me. Other people tend to act as though having strong feelings were either an attack or an act of submission, depending on how I express those feelings, and whichever they believe, neither is acceptable to them. The reasons for my feelings are rarely even taken into account.


But what about from complete strangers? 

(and IMO, you don't qualify for this question. I've seen your pics; you're a cutie! :happy


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

EDIT: I know only the females were asked ... but you gotta know that I will post the male's perspective and experience 

I'm gonna play the devil's advocate and say that there's a very valid point here that people who are "unattractive" sometimes do get poorly treated in life - specifically more so by random strangers though. Obviously one can be picky about their own friends and circle who will generally have less judgemental people in them - but that still doesn't stop random strangers from messing around with those people they don't like looking at. 

I actually tested this out on purpose. When I first started high school in 1996, I was pretty much the "geeky fresh off the boat immigrant with a poor fashion sense and thick accent". By 1999 however, I had changed that perception to "exotic hot/cute foreigner with the sexy mind and pretty boy flair" by most of the female population ... There was a stark difference in how people treated me as the years went by as I started paying more and more attention to my appearance. It was almost an ugly duckling turning into a swan kind of thing. 

That said, I still *absolutely* abhorred the attention because I knew how effing fake it was. 

Then my ex-wife married me for my looks and promptly started abusing me as I put on a lot of weight during my recovery from an accident in 2008 [to the point of eventually divorcing me in 2011].

This was just high school to married life. As for general public in Canada right now. I've noticed that when I walk around without a clean shave, I look like a bit of a bum. I definitely get treated differently in stores by the clerks as well as other customers as compared to when I go out there with my hair combed and a close shave. 

Oh and of course, the females definitely smile and stare more when I'm projecting my pretty boy look as compared to when I'm out there dressed and acting like a bum.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

I don't consider myself ugly, but I can tell you that when I'm in shape men are so nice to me, and want to help me, and when me and my ESFJ ex broke up, and I put on some weight (which I've now lost) _men _treated me differently. 

It was a real life lesson for me, that the kindness and attention I had previously received prior to that point had a lot to do with my physical appearance, at least with males. 

I can be at a healthy weight for my height and have high school boys to old men offering to open doors for me, but when I put on extra weight I noticed that guys thought they could be shittier to me in general - I mean no one that really matters, but yeah, I mean really OBVIOUS multiple occurrences. I also had a woman say to me that I had big boobs because I was a big girl, and I was like, "yeah, wow, no I have these even at a lower weight, as does my mother and cousin" and thought to myself "you jealous fucking bitch."

So that lets me know that physical appearance can influence people's behavior, primarily male behavior in my experience, since I am female.

However, you may not be "ugly" ...you may have very passive body language, or just look like an easy target. That's correctable from the way you think and assert yourself and present your body language.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

GoodOldDreamer said:


> I've been in retail for a few years now. It's the worst place to observe humanity. People just don't care about anything but themselves in a store. I dunno why that is. They just wanna do what it is they're there to do, and that's it. They're not ignoring you or being rude to you because you're ugly, or hell, because you're even there to be rude to. You're just another obstacle or distraction to them, that's it.


I'm sorry I can't relate .. the Canadian experience in retail is actually a very fun and energizing experience for the most part.


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## pinkrasputin (Apr 13, 2009)

dagnytaggart said:


> But what about from complete strangers?


Do you really want strangers to be nice to you because they find you're attractive? Be careful what you wish for, because it can be quite disgusting. If people are being nice to you because of your looks, that is usually laden with agendas. They are not respecting you as a person and individual any more than a person who bumps into you and doesn't say "excuse me". 

Besides, looks are subjective. No one here can tell you if you're ugly or not. Everyone has a different standard of what beauty is. Just _accept yourself as you are_ and know that you're all that. Keep your posture, hold your head up, and speak up for yourself when necessary. And maybe, just maybe, some day you'll give the right person a chance to enter your amazing world. 

When people are not nice to you, reject you, snap at you, or blame you for their behavior, don't accept the blame. Hopefully you don't choose how you treat others based on if you find them attractive or not. And hopefully you don't compare your looks to other people or think that someone is better/worse than you based on their looks.

The next time you see an incredibly attractive woman receiving over-the-top star treatment by a stranger in a store, you might want to look deeper to see a stranger that is just seeing "booty" while the beautiful woman talks. Their exchange and his kind gestures may simply be one stranger trying to get down another stranger's pants. This is not really "better treatment."


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## ChazBomb (May 10, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> I'm not saying that the posts above me are wrong because they're not. There's truth to them, but on a side note, I'm pretty sure I've read a shit ton of statistics about how pretty people are more likely to be treated better than those who are less fortunate in the genetics department.


I completely agree with what you're saying, too - you're right, majority of people will treat people differently according to their appearance. As humans, we often do it on so many levels- sex, race, hair colour, occupation, body shape - beauty is just another on that list. Do you think some personality types are more prone to doing this than others? I tend to judge others more by what they do/say than how they look but I'm an ESFJ.....maybe that has something to do with it lol 



Jennywocky said:


> As far as how people deal with women, though, I do think that in general the prettier someone is, the more attention and goodwill they'll get (at least up to a point, after which guys might consider her "out of their league" and totally ignore her and women might just scorn her). Women who are physically unattractive might have it harder; however, I think a physically unattractive woman who has an engaging personality can basically bump herself up into "average" category and not be any worse for wear.


You're bang on, here ;D

Your appearance can be both a blessing and a curse. Many, many times I've walked into a job interview or social function feeling as though my long blonde hair/blue eyes etc are actually working against me-as though I've already been superficially judged purely on my physical attributes and not for my personality or skills which (I think ) far outrank my looks. At the end of the day, it's your personality and your attitude that's going to save you either way 

That being said, I think I'd rather live in a world full of less-attractive people with beautiful personalities than one full of beautiful people with sh*tty personalities!


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Jawz said:


> I'm sorry I can't relate .. the Canadian experience in retail is actually a very fun and energizing experience for the most part.


Hum, i'm not sure about that. Have you ever been to Walmart on pension day ....holy crap, the little old ladies will run you over without question ; D


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> Hum, i'm not sure about that. Have you ever been to Walmart on pension day ....holy crap, the little old ladies will run you over without question ; D


Hahahaha ... Nah .. I haven't been to wal-mart that often  I suppose where you are in Canada matters too  I'm down in London, Ontario - it's a nice mid-sized city with what I like to call "gentle folk". It's also the retail hub of Ontario, so there's pretty much "best practices" in place here for the most part. 

I also stick to the mom and pop stores for the most part where retailing is always a pleasure 

That said .. I admit that it isn't always peachy, my sister and brother in law both have had run-ins with semi-racists, as have I. But that's an entirely different breed altogether - one that's clearly in the minority in Canada  As I mentioned in my earlier post, I've had my share of bad experiences in Canada as well ... but I've had even worse in my "home" country so I'm not one to complain about it


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

@dagnytaggart

I try to be fair, but I'm not going to lie, I'm not very. Fortunately I have a broad range of what is considered attractive: I walk down the street and could ogle most girls as if they were cliche models.

Also, I do make friends with ugly people. It doesn't bother me that they're ugly (plus, that kinda gets left out of my mind eventually), but when I don't know the person, I can be a little biased.

you can pm me a picture of your face if you want. I'll give you an honest opinion.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

pinkrasputin said:


> Do you really want strangers to be nice to you because they find you're attractive? Be careful what you wish for, because it can be quite disgusting. If people are being nice to you because of your looks, that is usually laden with agendas. They are not respecting you as a person and individual any more than a person who bumps into you and doesn't say "excuse me".


This is true. It's kind of creepy to realize later in life that people who even seemed like "fatherly figures" were apparently thinking about boning me.

It's fucking gross. 

I mean, I want to be attracted/attractive to a man I would be in a relationship with, and it's nice to slide through life more easily because of looking a certain way, but when it comes down to it, those really are not the people who should be valued in life, the people who are ONLY nice because of physical appearance.

You know that mass murderer in Norway is a pretty good looking guy. It would be a tragedy to be nice to him just because of it.



> Besides, looks are subjective. No one here can tell you if you're ugly or not. Everyone has a different standard of what beauty is. Just accept yourself as you are[/I] and know that you're all that. Keep your posture, hold your head up, and speak up for yourself when necessary. And maybe, just maybe, some day you'll give the right person a chance to enter your amazing world.


This too.



> When people are not nice to you, reject you, snap at you, or blame you for their behavior, don't accept the blame. Hopefully you don't choose how you treat others based on if you find them attractive or not. And hopefully you don't compare your looks to other people or think that someone is better/worse than you based on their looks.


I've noticed this, when I attach the way other people treat me (or reject me) to my own ego, then I feel bad about myself, but if you can keep your ego separate from what other people may be projecting (within reason, not getting carried away with being too egotistical) it's really much better.




> The next time you see an incredibly attractive woman receiving over-the-top star treatment by a stranger in a store, you might want to look deeper to see a stranger that is just seeing "booty" while the beautiful woman talks. Their exchange and his kind gestures may simply be one stranger trying to get down another stranger's pants. This is not really "better treatment."


No, and in fact, that woman could get treated poorly by any of those men, further on down the line, because they're so shallow. Let's say she puts on a few pounds, or they just get bored...anyone who is that shallow is even going to get bored or unsatisfied with "beautiful."


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

dagnytaggart said:


> But what about from complete strangers?
> 
> (and IMO, you don't qualify for this question. I've seen your pics; you're a cutie! :happy


Yes, complete strangers are sometimes disrespectful based on how I look. The people I care about aren't, though.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Jawz said:


> Hahahaha ... Nah .. I haven't been to wal-mart that often  I suppose where you are in Canada matters too  I'm down in London, Ontario - it's a nice mid-sized city with what I like to call "gentle folk". It's also the retail hub of Ontario, so there's pretty much "best practices" in place here for the most part.
> 
> I also stick to the mom and pop stores for the most part where retailing is always a pleasure
> 
> That said .. I admit that it isn't always peachy, my sister and brother in law both have had run-ins with semi-racists, as have I. But that's an entirely different breed altogether - one that's clearly in the minority in Canada  As I mentioned in my earlier post, I've had my share of bad experiences in Canada as well ... but I've had even worse in my "home" country so I'm not one to complain about it


I do most of my shopping online, i love shopping in European Countries. There are times that i have to venture out to a mall for lets say wrapping paper, something odd. I usually shop at markets, strip sidewalk stores. I honestly haven't been to a Walmart in a few years now, just wanted to make you laugh ;D I always have a nice shopping experience here, people are nice, no one is in much of a hurry for a city so big.


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

snail said:


> Usually when people disrespect me, it is for being passionate about my values. I can come across as aggressive or intimidating when people don't know me well, or at the other extreme, when something is troubling me, I can seem so vulnerable that people think they can get away with acting aggressively toward me.


Snail, I don't know you personally, or even very well on the site, but in general, when I am tempted to disrespect INFP's, it is because they are so passionate about their values, but not because they're intimidating or because they're vulnerable: I value both of those things. What bothers me is usually how they believe that things can be objectively right or wrong, and, worse, that their views are the ones that are right or wrong. I'm not apathetic, but I am a moral relativist, even a little of a nihilist. For example, punishing someone for murder is okay in my book, and being angry over it is fine, but judging them for their actions isn't okay, and saying murder is objectively bad is absurd. That's all that bothers me, is that INFP's tend to do this in my experience, and so I get upset at them for, in my mind, being blind. Its not fair, but I'm working on fixing it.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Zeptometer said:


> Snail, I don't know you personally, or even very well on the site, but in general, when I am tempted to disrespect INFP's, it is because they are so passionate about their values, but not because they're intimidating or because they're vulnerable: I value both of those things. What bothers me is usually how they believe that things can be objectively right or wrong, and, worse, that their views are the ones that are right or wrong. I'm not apathetic, but I am a moral relativist, even a little of a nihilist. For example, punishing someone for murder is okay in my book, and being angry over it is fine, but judging them for their actions isn't okay, and saying murder is objectively bad is absurd. That's all that bothers me, is that INFP's tend to do this in my experience, and so I get upset at them for, in my mind, being blind. Its not fair, but I'm working on fixing it.


The certainty of an objective morality _*is*_ one of my values.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

*Sizeism.*

A sizeist post was deleted from this thread, and the posts that followed in order to squash the argument that broke out. Sizeism is against the rules here, and this time I am going to assume you were joking. 



> Rule # 13. No Discriminatory Remarks
> Discriminatory remarks are unacceptable. This includes racism, sexism, offensive remarks about (or against) religion* or gender identity, physical attributes (*size*, height, etc.), and homophobic remarks. I'd like to take this a step further and coin a new term called typism. We will not tolerate broad generalizations and/or individual attacks that are meant to degrade by type. Joking is acceptable but should a member take offense they should ask that line of joking to stop. If it does not cease at that point, corrective actions will be taken.


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> He's totally pulling your chain, and its working. You're choking ;P lOL


maybe pulling it a little, but only because I actually give two shits about this forum. I'm no stranger to the internet, but this is the only place I take it seriously. I'm not choking.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Zeptometer said:


> maybe pulling it a little, but only because I actually give two shits about this forum. I'm no stranger to the internet, but this is the only place I take it seriously. I'm not choking.


You did choke, you reported him ...heh, anyways i knew he was joking. I don't take this place or any place on the internet seriously ;p Seriously, its not good for your health


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

snail said:


> The certainty of an objective morality _*is*_ one of my values.


well that's fine, but I find it foolish. I think, if there is a universal truth, it's that universal truths don't exist. People don't have to be what you want them to be. They live their own lives, and telling them that something about them that they were born with or that their lives ingrained in them is wrong? Nobody has the right to do that.


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

MuChApArAdOx said:


> You did choke, you reported him ...heh, anyways i knew he was joking. I don't take this place or any place on the internet seriously ;p Seriously, its not good for your health


yeah, I guess I did. damn, I wouldn't have done that if the mods hadn't just asked me to report people...


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

snail said:


> The certainty of an objective morality _*is*_ one of my values.


I could be misunderstanding this post, although Fi is subjective. As an INFP you lead with Fi. If i'm understanding correctly, and correct me if i'm wrong, is it possible you're an Fe user. I don't know you well, or not at all i should say, although from many of your postings i see Fe used as much or more than Fi.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

Zeptometer said:


> yeah, I guess I did. damn, I wouldn't have done that if the mods hadn't just asked me to report people...


Stop listening to the mods ...heh, your Ne had a brain fart maybe


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

sigh, I don't see why his opinion was deleted. I'd rather know what people are honestly thinking, even if the truth isn't...well, pretty. :/

As for sizeism, I wonder if that's a part of it. I'm 5'11, and 98 lbs. Strangers are constantly buying me food or giving me unsolicited "counseling" about eating disorders.


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## MuChApArAdOx (Jan 24, 2011)

dagnytaggart said:


> sigh, I don't see why his opinion was deleted. I'd rather know what people are honestly thinking, even if the truth isn't...well, pretty. :/


I agree with this, 100%


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Zeptometer said:


> well that's fine, but I find it foolish. I think, if there is a universal truth, it's that universal truths don't exist. People don't have to be what you want them to be. They live their own lives, and telling them that something about them that they were born with or that their lives ingrained in them is wrong? Nobody has the right to do that.


There are other threads for discussing this matter, but I avoid them.

I avoid them because people who are born blind can't just be talked into seeing, and I believe this is a similar kind of situation. Not being in touch with a higher moral truth isn't the same as being evil or stupid. It is more like being disabled by a missing sense. Those who can't feel the moral truth can't be made to experience it any more than people who are deaf will suddenly be able to hear just because I write about all of the sounds I hear. 


Therefore, arguing about this topic is pointless, but despite knowing that some people have not been blessed with the capacity for moral feeling, I will continue to talk about the moral truths I sense. I will do so passionately, with all of the certainty I apply to my other senses.


/derail


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

dagnytaggart said:


> sigh, I don't see why his opinion was deleted. I'd rather know what people are honestly thinking, even if the truth isn't...well, pretty. :/
> 
> As for sizeism, I wonder if that's a part of it. I'm 5'11, and 98 lbs. Strangers are constantly buying me food or giving me unsolicited "counseling" about eating disorders.


Sizeism sucks. I have experienced it from the other end of the spectrum, and it is unfair that people make assumptions about your eating habits or your mental wellness based on your body type. Whenever possible, I avoid people who do that, and if I can't, I argue with them until they are afraid to mess with me.

edit: Intimidating people into treating you with the respect you deserve might be harder if they are discriminating against you for being tiny. :-/ That hadn't occurred to me.


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

snail said:


> There are other threads for discussing this matter, but I avoid them.
> 
> I avoid them because people who are born blind can't just be talked into seeing, and I believe this is a similar kind of situation. Not being in touch with a higher moral truth isn't the same as being evil or stupid. It is more like being disabled by a missing sense. Those who can't feel the moral truth can't be made to experience it any more than people who are deaf will suddenly be able to hear just because I write about all of the sounds I hear.
> 
> ...


which is why I said it was unfair and I was trying to work on it. However, I should clarify; I'm working on my tolerance of it in ignorant people. people who should know better can bite me.


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## snail (Oct 13, 2008)

Zeptometer said:


> which is why I said it was unfair and I was trying to work on it. However, I should clarify; I'm working on my tolerance of it in ignorant people. people who should know better can bite me.


I guess that's a start. Tolerance isn't something I'm very good at either.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

dagnytaggart said:


> sigh, I don't see why his opinion was deleted. I'd rather know what people are honestly thinking, even if the truth isn't...well, pretty. :/
> 
> As for sizeism, I wonder if that's a part of it. I'm 5'11, and 98 lbs. Strangers are constantly buying me food or giving me unsolicited "counseling" about eating disorders.


The reason was obviously clearly stated in the rule posted as an explanation. That is in fact why the rule was posted, as an explanation, so that the reason would be clear. Furthermore, troll posts are often deleted because they upset people and derail threads with arguments. Questioning mod decision in public is also against the rules. 



> 14. No Public Questionings of Decisions Made By Staff (Do It Privately)
> There will be no public questioning of the decisions made by the staff. This applies to all, including the staff. Should somebody take issue with the decision of a moderator, it should be discussed privately with somebody of the administration so that action can be taken. We added this rule due to the difficulty in resolving an issue when it's publicly posted in the open forum for all to reply. Issues should be resolved by the parties involved, not the entirety of the community.


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

EDITED:

agh. I'm just not thinking for myself right now, am I? I should have gone with my original thoughts, he's either being asinine or trolling....


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

snail said:


> Sizeism sucks. I have experienced it from the other end of the spectrum, and it is unfair that people make assumptions about your eating habits or your mental wellness based on your body type. Whenever possible, I avoid people who do that, and if I can't, I argue with them until they are afraid to mess with me.
> 
> edit: Intimidating people into treating you with the respect you deserve might be harder if they are discriminating against you for being tiny. :-/ That hadn't occurred to me.


Definitely. People treat me like I'm fragile (except for that asshat retail employee), and strangers will offer to help me carry my groceries, or push a heavy door open.

The worst so far was when I was with a tour group, and some guy looked at me and said, "If you don't want to walk the whole way, I can carry you. You weigh, like, nothing."

Dignity = smashed.

(I did *not* take him up on his offer...and he ended up pooping out before me.)


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

snail said:


> I guess that's a start. Tolerance isn't something I'm very good at either.


I think anyone over the age of 18 should know better, excluding those who, for whatever reason, are comatose or similarly mentally afflicted.


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## Niccolo Machiavelli (Aug 7, 2011)

I'll just make one last post here real quick to clarify things, then I'll stop posting in this thread and if anybody has any questions or comments feel free to send me a PM or whatever...

1) Sorry about the "sizist" remark. Didn't realize that was against the rules, now I know, and I learned a new vocabulary word! :happy:

2) I didn't mean any harm, I really was trying to be helpful by saying "look, the problem isn't you, it is people like me."


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## DeductiveReasoner (Feb 25, 2011)

Don't worry about it. There are douchebags in the world, and it's impossible to avoid them. 

And don't automatically blame you're appearance. Ugly to one person may be sexy to another. It probably has nothing to do with the way you look.


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## PhoebeJaspe (Apr 17, 2011)

LoL. What's with guys in this thread asking the O.P to send them her picture? This is not a rating thread...

Also, I tend to do the same because men are really sleazy over here... Well, as @GoodOldDreamer pointed out, it's not the fact that you're ugly or anything, it's the fact that people have their own problems and it's not always your fault. It would make sense if you thought the world was controlled by you, and the only things that matter is what you think...
But I guess if this was the case, I wouldn't know how to convey it properly since it would mean that everything is created and determined.

Anyways, I just think you shouldn't care so much of what people think about your looks like what you call it 'ugliness'... Because that's a waste of time, what are you gaining from feeling ugly? It's just going to stress you out and not feel better. That's the worst way to go, plus you're believing it as well... dammit woman.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

DeductiveReasoner said:


> Don't worry about it. There are douchebags in the world, and it's impossible to avoid them.
> 
> *And don't automatically blame you're appearance. Ugly to one person may be sexy to another. It probably has nothing to do with the way you look.*


I have been told by my friends and acquaintances that nearly every guy I have ever been attracted to was ugly.. but theres no way I could see them as that. What you said is true. What some might consider ugly, others may find irresistible. : )


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

OP, what you described doesn't seem like it had anything to do with your appearance. The guy may just have been a jerk? It sounds like an isolated incident. If I remember correctly, you have been into modelling. It's safe to assume that you're not 'ugly' by society's 'standards'. That doesn't mean you don't have body image concerns, though. Besides, you couldn't possibly gain anything from wondering whether douchebaggery on someone's end is your face's fault or theirs. You know the answer. A lesson I learnt very early in life was that how people treat you is directly proportional to the most superficial of markers: appearance, wealth. It sounds like self-help junk, but the best thing is to take such complete and luscious pride in yourself that shit like that ends up rolling right off your sexy back. 

Anyway, so-called "ugly" people do have it a lot harder. FWIW, I am the 'dusky' seductress [/slut- the darker skinned, big-eyed, big breasted sex object]/ ugly disgusting scarred bitch in my culture (depending on perspective). In the West, I am the fetishized 'exotic' Asian hybrid [A Kamasutra sculpture in flesh lol (much like yourself, I am half-Indian)]. Comparing my overweight days with my six pack ones, there's a marked difference in treatment (strangers and non-strangers alike). The blatant superficiality insults my intelligence and amuses me. Taking it to heart and getting pulled into the rathole is counter-productive.


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

Boss said:


> OP, what you described doesn't seem like it had anything to do with your appearance. The guy may just have been a jerk? It sounds like an isolated incident. If I remember correctly, you have been into modelling. It's safe to assume that you're not 'ugly' by society's 'standards'. That doesn't mean you don't have body image concerns, though. Besides, you couldn't possibly gain anything from wondering whether douchebaggery on someone's end is your face's fault or theirs. You know the answer. A lesson I learnt very early in life was that how people treat you is directly proportional to the most superficial of markers: appearance, wealth. It sounds like self-help junk, but the best thing is to take such complete and luscious pride in yourself that shit like that ends up rolling right off your sexy back.
> 
> Anyway, so-called "ugly" people do have it a lot harder. FWIW, I am the 'dusky' seductress [/slut- the darker skinned, big-eyed, big breasted sex object]/ ugly disgusting scarred bitch in my culture (depending on perspective). In the West, I am the fetishized 'exotic' Asian hybrid [A Kamasutra sculpture in flesh lol (much like yourself, I am half-Indian)]. Comparing my overweight days with my six pack ones, there's a marked difference in treatment (strangers and non-strangers alike). The blatant superficiality insults my intelligence and amuses me. Taking it to heart and getting pulled into the rathole is counter-productive.


You're half Indian too? How come I ended up pale and green eyed and you got the boobs and glow? Not fair (no pun intended), I got ripped off. ;P

Modeling doesn't mean I'm pretty. I don't get assignments that would go to girl-next-door Paris Hilton types. I get booked for gigs that require "exotic" looks, or runway stuff. 

What works for modeling does not always translate to real world beauty. I just look like an alien when I'm in, say, a grocery store. Being taller than the average man and "scary" skinny (even my agency wants me to gain weight) makes it even harder to blend in.

I'm an introvert, I hate being stared at, if I'm just minding my own business.

Anyway, I wouldn't even care about looks (except as far as hygiene goes), but for women, being hot makes life so much easier, according to statistics.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

I agree dagny. Being conventionally pretty does make life a lot easier for women. That's undeniable. I am glad you pointed out that modeling beauty does not translate to 'real world' beauty.


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## twoofthree (Aug 6, 2011)

The fact that the OP thinks he's ugly and being treated badly because of it will probably show up in his demeanor.



Ace Face said:


> I'm not saying that the posts above me are wrong because they're not. There's truth to them, but on a side note, I'm pretty sure I've read a shit ton of statistics about how pretty people are more likely to be treated better than those who are less fortunate in the genetics department.


But then there are aspects of how you carry yourself.

No matter what genes you have a choice in how your present yourself.
If you present yourself like a doormat, then some people won't hesitate to wipe their feet.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

The way people have treated me because of how I look is usually disgusting. I'm not "hot" so apparently I'm not worth one shred of respect. So when they are not asking me when my "baby is due" they are usually just giving me dirty looks and talking about me behind my back. *shrugs* I don't really care anymore at this point, well no.... I don't care if people call me ugly but if one more person suggests that I'm knocked up I might go american psycho on them


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## FreeSpirit (Jun 1, 2011)

I believe that people in general are nicer to 'lookers'- possibly without 
even realizing it a good percentage of the time.

This would be a good study, actually. Go to a store, send in an 'ugly'
to one of the employees, ask a typical, common question (such as, "where 
is the bathroom?"), record response. Couple of minutes later, send in a 
'looker' with the same question to the same employee- record response. Try
it all over the world a few hundred times and see what we've got.


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## timeless (Mar 20, 2010)

Eerie said:


> The way people have treated me because of how I look is usually disgusting. I'm not "hot" so apparently I'm not worth one shred of respect. So when they are not asking me when my "baby is due" they are usually just giving me dirty looks and talking about me behind my back. *shrugs* I don't really care anymore at this point, well no.... I don't care if people call me ugly but if one more person suggests that I'm knocked up I might go american psycho on them


Nooo you are beautiful! <3 Anyone who has said this obviously hasn't stared at you as much as I have. roud:


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

@Eerie, people are, for the most part, shallow ignorant bastards. Talking behind your back only speaks volumes about their vapid superficiality.

You're gorgeous, and I am not saying this to sound 'nice'. I suck at that. I mean this honestly. You are a very beautiful woman (yes, hot would also apply), and I am not just referring to your personality here. And zomg! the are you..pregnant thing is very annoying. I have a cousin who just has a cute belly. She looks like she's permanently 3 months pregnant. When I was younger, I'd often ask her if she were expecting (I wasn't teasing; I was genuinely curious). Then, I realized it was not just silly but it really was none of my damn business. It's a very personal thing, and as innocent as such questions may be, they're highly irritating and out of place. I am glad she doesn't hold it against me, but I wouldn't take it very well if someone were to suggest that I was pregnant.


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## Eerie (Feb 9, 2011)

Boss said:


> @Eerie, people are, for the most part, shallow ignorant bastards. Talking behind your back only speaks volumes about their vapid superficiality.
> 
> You're gorgeous, and I am not saying this to sound 'nice'. I suck at that. I mean this honestly. You are a very beautiful woman (yes, hot would also apply), and I am not just referring to your personality here. And zomg! the are you..pregnant thing is very annoying. I have a cousin who just has a cute belly. She looks like she's permanently 3 months pregnant. When I was younger, I'd often ask her if she were expecting (I wasn't teasing; I was genuinely curious). Then, I realized it was not just silly but it really was none of my damn business. It's a very personal thing, and as innocent as such questions may be, they're highly irritating and out of place. I am glad she doesn't hold it against me, but I wouldn't take it very well if someone were to suggest that I was pregnant.


hehehe, ty. I think though, that a majority of the world is automatically disgusted by plus size women. And they'll use a million excuses as for why. You know how many idiots that don't even personally know me will try to talk to me about my health? I mean really? It gets irritating. I used to work at a grocery store, and I had people who were like "you shouldn't be lifting in that condition" I was like "and what condition is THAT?" .... *silence* 

bitches


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

twoofthree said:


> But then there are aspects of how you carry yourself.
> 
> No matter what genes you have a choice in how your present yourself.
> If you present yourself like a doormat, then some people won't hesitate to wipe their feet.


I don't disagree. Why expect others to respect if you don't even appear to respect yourself?


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## Zeptometer (Dec 5, 2010)

Man, people probably think I'm such a douche then...


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## dagnytaggart (Jun 6, 2010)

twoofthree said:


> The fact that the OP thinks he's ugly and being treated badly because of it will probably show up in his demeanor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


and @Ace Face

IMO, I think people expect ugly people to "stay in their place" - for example, when I stood up to that employee, he reacted even more negatively. Like, "how dare" I mistaken myself as human and ask to be treated with respect.


@Zeptometer - why? What'd you do? lol


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## viva (Aug 13, 2010)

Eerie said:


> The way people have treated me because of how I look is usually disgusting. I'm not "hot" so apparently I'm not worth one shred of respect. So when they are not asking me when my "baby is due" they are usually just giving me dirty looks and talking about me behind my back. *shrugs* I don't really care anymore at this point, well no.... I don't care if people call me ugly but if one more person suggests that I'm knocked up I might go american psycho on them


Honestly, I feel like nearly every woman, while not pregnant, has been asked when she is due at least once in her life. I know that probably doesn't make you feel any better, but it's true. And absolutely absurd. You'd think people would learn their lesson and realize that the chance of the person not being pregnant, no matter how small, is still there, and it will be so awkward and hurtful that you should _just not ask_. This summer, I was working at a bank, and a male customer asked me when I was due-- I'm 5'3" and weighed about 140lbs at the time. Certainly not the pinnacle of thinness, but surely I did not look pregnant with child. Needless to say, I have never worn the dress I was wearing that day again. I was incredulous. It's such a self-esteem killer. But when I vented to my friends about it-- some of them who are very, very thin-- they all shockingly had similar stories to share! Which has led me to believe that this happens to everyone. It also happens to my mom a lot. So stupid.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

dagnytaggart said:


> and @_Ace Face_
> 
> IMO, I think people expect ugly people to "stay in their place" - for example, when I stood up to that employee, he reacted even more negatively. Like, "how dare" I mistaken myself as human and ask to be treated with respect.


Of course he got defensive. A lot of people do when you call them out on their bull shit. That's just life, and that's probably why a lot of people don't like me. I don't put up with disrespect. If they don't like me though, I really don't care. I have no control over the assholes in this world, but I do have control over how I respond to those assholes and over how much time I spend around them.


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## Promethea (Aug 24, 2009)

Jennywocky said:


> OP: Like others have said, I wouldn't automatically assume it's "you." Typically people are just really self-focused and even self-absorbed. There's a lot of crap that's easy to take on a personal level that's really about the other person, not about you at all.
> 
> As far as how people deal with women, though, I do think that in general the prettier someone is, the more attention and goodwill they'll get *(at least up to a point, after which guys might consider her "out of their league" and totally ignore her and women might just scorn her)*. Women who are physically unattractive might have it harder; however, I think a physically unattractive woman who has an engaging personality can basically bump herself up into "average" category and not be any worse for wear.
> 
> I've had some insecurities at times about my appearance, and essentially I learned to be more engaging and take a proactive approach to dealing with people, to put my best attributes (my mind, my articulateness, my acceptance of others) out there as soon as possible so that I'm not just being judged on appearance.


I'm hesitant to say what came to mind, because I hate saying anything that could stigmatize me as being one of 'those girls' who 'knows shes pretty' -- but I suppose seeing as how I battle beauty standards and superficiality, most people around here probably think its some personal investment on my part, and that I must be a 5,000 lb ogre with volcanoes erupting on my face. 

Anyway.. screw it. I have always been considered very attractive, and it has been a huge problem. There are different types of negative attention. Back when I was model-thin, the only types of guys who would even come near me were well, those who wanted exactly what I -appeared- to be. I had platinum blonde hair and ate maybe once a day.. and shallow misogynistic guys flocked to me. I dated the ones who I thought were the smarter of them -- but they were what they were; guys who liked what I looked like. At some point I realized I was attracting all the wrong people. I didn't try to maintain that image anymore. I actually died my hair black and then I put on a healthy amount of weight so I wasn't stick thin anymore. I still got a lot of attention, though more from shallow sub-culture types. Still just as shallow. Its always been hard to know if someone liked me for my personality, or my looks. I thought at times, wow, a lot of people really like me.. I must be really interesting. I looked back and realized it wasn't that I was all that interesting to them. They didn't get me. They just liked the way I looked. I was very resentful and felt like I was robbed of something.. quality I guess. Everything around me was so superficial because I drew that in. 

Then there are other negative reactions -- the more obvious ones. Girls irl always think I'm going to be a gigantic cunt to them. I used to think oh my, what pretense.. then it struck me: they think that -I- am going to be the one with pretenses. I realized this when I noticed a pattern of them being absolutely shocked that I'm nice to them -- and humble. And some guys. Well, I'm sure many people remember my post from the negging thread. When guys think you're very attractive, they think they need to knock you down a peg so that you'll actually respond to them. 

I know I have read that there are a lot of advantages to being 'attractive' as well. And sure, I think I have even got some jobs I have had partially based on it. And a lot of guys have wanted to date me.. but in personal relationships, its hard to tell why, like I said. Is it some superficial attraction and they're just pretending to actually like me? In many cases it was. 

Bad girl friends is another issue. Firstly, I absolutely appreciate the few female friends I have, and I'm thankful that they haven't done the things to me that many female friends have done. I mean even currently, I have a sort of former female friend, driven by jealousy whether or not she realizes it, running amok to try to sabotage me. When she approached me, I could smell her fear and envy.. and it was only a matter of time before she did cruel things driven by this. I have a long history of being mistreated by jealous female friends. So many absolutely vile actions. 

Some types of girls will also try to hit on your boyfriend more if they think you're really attractive. They see it as a challenge and the ultimate ego boost to win the attention of a guy who the attractive girl is dating. I got into actual fist fights over this, in my home town. I would go out to music venues a lot with the guy I was dating, and I would see a girl eyeballing me.. eyeballing him.. and work up the nerve at some point. I'm very territorial and it went to hell fast. :/

Anyway, theres positive and negative on both sides.


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## Wellsy (Oct 24, 2011)

"Keep in mind that the true measure of an individual is how he treats a person who can do him absolutely no good."
This seems like it fits well to how people treat those based on their appearance differently.


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## bromide (Nov 28, 2011)

I don't know about ugliness specifically, my face is neither ugly nor gorgeous, but I've noticed that my weight plays a huge factor in how people treat me. I'm one of those people who loses a lot of weight then gains it back then loses it again, wash rinse repeat. When I'm thinner people are noticeably much kinder to me on the whole and treat me with more respect. But as @Promethea noted, being a beautiful woman has its down sides too. My ENFP sis is classically beautiful in the tall, svelte sense and she is constantly getting sexually harassed by guys and has problems with other women saying truly cruel things about her with no basis.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

lol @viva, the height part of your story reminds me of the time a former classmate visited me. I am about 5'4 (yay! I've grown a few inches taller since I joined the forum:laughing, and at the time I had gained about 15 pounds, so I weighed around 135 pounds (which is well within my healthy BMI range). I was traveling, and I am a shameless gluttonous beast when it comes to all things I find pleasurable, so I had been eating a hell lot. And, losing 15 pounds is child's play to me anyway. So, I don't really care. 

Anyhow, this classmate of mine [she is known for being a shallow vapid asswipe] saw a photo of my super tall, very athletic and well-built partner and said: Is he still attracted to you? (with this look of near-disgust on her face, she stared me down). As I held back a laugh, she continued .. "I have a feeling you're getting *lazy*, and you really need to cut back on the food and 'actually' work out..you know. I don't even...get why such a hot guy is..I hope you don't mind me saying all this..." Blah blah bleep. I was surprised that she had the nerve to talk down to me, that too on my own damn property. When someone is superficial and lacking self-respect, it fucks with their ability to reason and conduct themselves with any semblance of maturity. I strategically chose to 'act' like she had succeeded in effectively shaming me and making me feel like shit. I am a great actress, anyway. I wanted to see how low she would stoop, if I let her. 

She, then, made a comment that blew my fuse (she actually suggested that my bf should cheat on me to teach me a lesson about the importance of 'maintaining a sexy, *slim*, appearance') . I was going to give her a piece of my mind, but I was going to do it calmly until that comment. The hell that broke loose that day..she will remember it for the rest of her life. I chased her out of my house after thoroughly ripping her inflated ego to shreds, and my thundering furious voice was heard over quite a distance. People actually called to ask me what had happened. I told them that I was willing to pay for any and all shattered windows. lol 

Anyway, she hasn't had the nerve to face me since. I saw her at a mall once, and the second she noticed me, she pretty much cowered away within seconds, with her tail securely tucked between her dainty slim lil legs.


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