# Could I be a Sensor?



## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

What are some easy ways to tell ENTP apart from ESTP? Most of the time the description of ESTP fits me even better than ENTP but I've always thought that my dominant function is Ne. Right now, I'm not so sure.


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## lavendersnow (Jan 13, 2016)

Dom Ne and dom Se can be easily confused. As they're so easily confused, you might have a better luck determining your type by addressing your inferior function rather than your dominant one.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

@mockturtle 

*ENTP* section:

* *





Assuming you were *Ne dominate* you would use this a lot/ be good at:
"Extraverted Intuition: scans, detects, and responds quickly to unique or novel conceptual patterns in the external world to create new ideas or possibilities"

Assuming you were *Si inferior* you would use little of this/ be bad at:
"Introverted Sensing: gathers, categorizes, and stores sensory facts and details that are personally relevant, creating an internal database of knowledge for understanding new situations"

ENTP profile
Ne dominate
Si inferior



*ESTP* section:

* *





Assuming you were *Se dominate* you would use this a lot/ be good at:
"Extraverted Sensing: scans, detects, and responds quickly to unique or novel sensory stimuli in the external world to maximize adaptability to changes and richness of experience" 

Assuming you were *Ni inferior* you would use little of this/ be bad at:
"Introverted Intuition: gathers, connects, and stores conceptual ideas, meanings, and interrelationships that are personally important, creating an internal network of information or unified theory to use as a template for anticipating future outcomes"

ESTP profile
Se dominate
Ni inferior



Sources:
Masterpost: Cognitive Functions
Overview of Cognitive Functions
Knowing Your Functional Stack


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> Assuming you were *Si inferior* you would use little of this/ be bad at:
> "Introverted Sensing: gathers, categorizes, and stores sensory facts and details that are personally relevant, creating an internal database of knowledge for understanding new situations"
> 
> Assuming you were *Ni inferior* you would use little of this/ be bad at:
> "Introverted Intuition: gathers, connects, and stores conceptual ideas, meanings, and interrelationships that are personally important, creating an internal network of information or unified theory to use as a template for anticipating future outcomes"


The problem is, I don't consider myself particularly unskilled at either one of these.
Could you give me an example for how ESTP and ENTP would react differently to the same situation? Or maybe give me some questions that might help me clarify my type?


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

mockturtle said:


> The problem is, I don't consider myself particularly unskilled at either one of these.
> Could you give me an example for how ESTP and ENTP would react differently to the same situation? Or maybe give me some questions that might help me clarify my type?


If you don't lack Si/Ni and consider yourself an ETP then I doubt you are an ETP, unless you have such good control on your inferior.

*ESTP*:
Se+Ti focuses on maximizing their fun to a situation whilst trying to stay somewhat impartial on their decision making i.e. not including personal values and conscience [morals] but instead ones own rules and principles. Se is more "in the moment" and is good at recognizing their surroundings and interacting with such.
Key terms of Se:
*maximize adaptability to changes and richness of experience*
Interacts through *novel sensory stimuli*.

*ENTP*:
Ne+Ti focuses on creating new ideas/possibilities to their situation whilst trying to stay somewhat impartial on their decision making i.e. not including personal values and conscience [morals] but instead ones own rules and principles. Ne is more focused on recognizing patterns in their surrounding and interacting with such.
key terms of Ne:
*create new ideas or possibilities*
Interacts through *novel conceptual patterns*.

What I meant by Ti:
Introverted Thinking: creates precise and formulaic knowledge of the world, using a streamlined mental model of rules and principles for navigating systems with accuracy and precision


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

In this case ESTP sounds more like me, although I like novelty in general (ideas _and_ experiences).
Alright, so maybe I'll try to describe myself a bit. I'm unable to make plans and stick to them, I very much prefer to just go with the flow and see what happens. I get bored ridiculously fast and when I do I tend to get depressed and pessimistic. I often change my mind and opinion on things as new information appears. I hate people telling me what to do and tend to rebel. I'm aware of what's considered "normal" by society, but 99% of the time I make sure to do the exact opposite. I like to challenge the status quo. I thrive on being more daring and bolder than most people. Everyday tasks are a nightmare, so I avoid them whenever possible. I love to prove people wrong. If somebody tells me I can't do something or that it's wrong, etc., you can bet I'll go and do it straight away. I'm straightforward and never beat around the bush. I'd rather people told me the truth, no matter how unpleasant, so that I could do something about it, instead of sugar-coating or hiding things from me, because they don't want to hurt my feelings.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

@mockturtle
*ENTP*.

Done.


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> @mockturtle
> *ENTP*.
> 
> Done.


I'm more than okay with it. But why...?


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

@mockturtle

Your Ne out ways the Se, and your viewpoint is more similar to other ENTP people I know.



> I'm unable to make plans and stick to them, I very much prefer to just go with the flow and see what happens.


Ne.


> I get bored ridiculously fast and when I do I tend to get depressed and pessimistic.


Ne.


> I often change my mind and opinion on things as new information appears.


Ne.


> I hate people telling me what to do and tend to rebel.


Lack of Te & Si.


> I'm aware of what's considered "normal" by society, but 99% of the time I make sure to do the exact opposite.


Lack of Si.


> I like to challenge the status quo.


Ne & Ti.


> I thrive on being more daring and bolder than most people.


Se.


> Everyday tasks are a nightmare, so I avoid them whenever possible.


High Ne, & lack of Se.


> I love to prove people wrong.


Ne & Ji.


> If somebody tells me I can't do something or that it's wrong, etc., you can bet I'll go and do it straight away.


Ji, & lack of Si.


> I'm straightforward and never beat around the bush.


Lack of Fe.


> I'd rather people told me the truth, no matter how unpleasant, so that I could do something about it, instead of sugar-coating or hiding things from me, because they don't want to hurt my feelings.


Ti, & likes other Te users.


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

Makes sense. Thanks :happy:


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## Because_why_not (Jul 30, 2016)

Hold on, hold on. Looking at narcissistic's break down, there seems to be some confusion. A lot of the Ne's could also be examples of Se types too. They also can get bored with lack of stimulation and are not known for planning. Ne and Se are both perceiving functions and that's what you're displaying here. 

You need a new angle: Se and Ne can appear similar but are actually quite different.

Ne: ideas and possibilities.
Se: experiences in the real world.

It's a little bit like the daydreamer and the doer (though obviously everyone does this to various degrees).
Se users are more "grounded" in their approach and they see the world as a physical thing to live in the here and now. They tend to be more hands on and take information from their environment as it is. An example would be Bart Simpson, an ESTP.

Ne users are more concerned with the ideas of things, rather than necessarily the thing themselves. They love new things but will move on once their obsession with the idea has faded. I think this lead to confusion analysing when you said you were bored easily. Ne users even when speaking will jump from one idea to the next quickly and seemingly randomly, which is because they see patterns in things others may not. Willy Wonka is an ENTP (also the Joker but he's not exactly stable is he haha)


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

Because_why_not said:


> Hold on, hold on. Looking at narcissistic's break down, there seems to be some confusion. A lot of the Ne's could also be examples of Se types too. They also can get bored with lack of stimulation and are not known for planning. Ne and Se are both perceiving functions and that's what you're displaying here.
> 
> You need a new angle: Se and Ne can appear similar but are actually quite different.
> 
> ...


Thanks for translating the INTP language into the layman language XD
Hope she now understands.


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

Because_why_not said:


> Ne: ideas and possibilities.
> Se: experiences in the real world.


I'm fine with either. Or, better still, both.
I love living in the present moment. And I hate overthinking things. I've always claimed that life is simple but for whatever reason people just _love_ to make it much more complicated and then complain about it. My philosophy is that if something's not working, I change it. If I can't (unfortunately I _have_ to got to school), I focus on the future. I.e. when it gets really bad and I feel like I'm stuck, I try to keep in mind that it will get better (eg. when I go to college, I'll be able to choose the subjects I enjoy). Or I do something to take my mind off whatever's bothering me: go out, call my friend, find myself a project to focus on, etc.
Some of it might be because I'm enneagram 7, I guess.


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> Thanks for translating the INTP language into the layman language XD
> Hope she now understands.


I don't think not understanding was the problem here. I'm just really bad at making up my mind as to what is more _me_ :tongue:


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

mockturtle said:


> I don't think not understanding was the problem here. I'm just really bad at making up my mind as to what is more _me_ :tongue:


Question:
Did you even read up about the sources I linked to you, or did you just read the paragraphs I presented?


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> Question:
> Did you even read up about the sources I linked to you, or did you just read the paragraphs I presented?


I did. Twice, actually. I'd say it was 50/50.
But I just noticed that I've missed two links. BRB.


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## Because_why_not (Jul 30, 2016)

> I'm fine with either. Or, better still, both.


Have you taken a function test at all? Because everyone will use all functions to some degree, it might become hard if you can pick out examples of one or the other. It's about preference of how you process information and use that for things like actions and decision-making. From your paragraph above, there seems to be more of a preference for Ne, because you are imagining the possibilities for the future and also what you wrote about changing habits (if it's because you wondered what will happen, its more Ne. If it's to experience what will happen, it's more Se).

Type 7 typically correlates with Ne-doms and Se-doms. Sanguine (if you know the temperaments) also correlates with ENFP, ENTP, and ESFP (and is the auxiliary for ESTP). So you can see there's a lot of overlap, but they're not quite the same. 

So yeah, try a cognitive function test and post your results xD I think there's some resources on this site for the best tests, not too sure where but I can find them if you like!


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

Because_why_not said:


> So yeah, try a cognitive function test and post your results xD


I have. I score very high on both Se and Ne, followed very closely by Ti and Fi (whichever is higher depends on the day). So I've been typed as: INTP, INFP, ESTP, ISTP (?!), ENTP, ENFP. But I can do that again.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

mockturtle said:


> I have. I score very high on both Se and Ne, followed very closely by Ti and Fi (whichever is higher depends on the day). So I've been typed as: INTP, INFP, ESTP, ISTP (?!), ENTP, ENFP. But I can do that again.


This one?:
Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

Reply with exact figures please.


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## Because_why_not (Jul 30, 2016)

Yup and try and do it where you have no distractions. One of the limitations of test is that the answers and therefore results can be so easily influenced by outside factors (which will likely be the main reason you get different results)


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

*resisting Ni*: *paranoid or suspicious about being restricted or controlled*; *obstinate or needlessly rebellious against external standards*; *lacks nuance in judgment*, *no patience for understanding problems in depth*; *dismisses the need for careful long term analysis/planning*; tendency to be dismissive of abstract meaning or theoretical knowledge; *reckless and short-sighted in decision making* - this is what happened when I was supposed to choose a school, I was depressed and generally down and I couldn't put things into perspective, so I felt inclined to go with whichever option seemed most daring and unexpected. My friend helped me with this one, because he was objective, while everyone else thought about what would be best for _them_ (which made me want to do the exact opposite).

*defensive loop*: *cannot seem to trust in anyone or anything*; *passive *(not sure, possibly?), *negative*, *pessimistic*, or *self-defeating*(and self-destructive - when I feel bored/hopeless/ignored/under-appreciated/helpless/etc., I'd do anything to A)numb my feelings B)find a new rush C)remind people that I'm here, make them worry about me D)punish myself; taking too many pills, not eating, not sleeping, self-harm, etc.); *tends to be cynical about the future/people/world*; *tends to obsess about the past or future and ignore present facts*; *tends to overanalyze problems with poor results*; *feels like a lone wolf and unable to fit in*, *perceiving oneself as misunderstood or unappreciated by others*; *prone to pursuing “alternative” or antisocial or unproductive lifestyle choices to immaturely express independence or individuality* (THIS!!!); tendency to believe in mystical “signs” or intuitive “connections” that don’t really exist; *makes poor knee-jerk judgments with the unconscious intent to avoid confronting objective factual reality (and stick with the aspects of life that one is most comfortable with)*

*Ti-Ni loop*: compelled to rationalize away one’s problematic beliefs, judgments, or decisions by applying any idea/perspective one can find, but ultimately cannot see the purpose/point/meaning of any experience or action because of having no way of verifying which perspective is correct or factually accurate (i.e. fails/refuses to broaden knowledge base beyond personal preferences) - probably. Could you show me Fi-Ni loop as well?


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

> probably. Could you show me Fi-Ni loop as well?


*Fi-Ni loop*: compelled to rationalize away one’s problematic feelings, judgments, or decisions by applying any idea/perspective one can find, but ultimately cannot achieve any worthwhile action or meaningful direction in life because of having no way of verifying which perspective is the morally right one (i.e. fails/refuses to broaden understanding of the world beyond personal experiences)

Also remember to do the Ne/Se-Fe loop too.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

mockturtle said:


> Yeah, that's exactly my point. I considered myself a Ne-dom, so I was surprised by how much I could relate to him.


Sorry, I misread it.

Is there any reason why you still consider Ne as a possibility? 

Despite the stereotypes, Se-doms are often interested in concepts, they can predict the future, they can see possibilities, they can grasp concepts, they can stop and think (especially a head-type in the enneagram, like you are). Some of these things have nothing to do with intuition and the rest are things everyone has enough intuition to do.

For strong Ne, you're looking at most disney princesses, with their OTT optimistic dreamy visions of the future that have no chance of coming true (except they do, because it's disney). A Se-dom will take you at face value; watching your facial expression, body language, vocal tone, etc. A Ne-dom will instead be constantly looking for hidden meaning behind your words.



narcissistic said:


> Neither are you.


I'm not self-citing. I've cited my opinion from experts.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

> I'm not self-citing. I've cited my opinion from experts.


Yeah, sure you are:








That's why the only cited opinion so far you've presented is why I'm wrong.
You haven't even helped type this person, only just butted in to give your opinion.

You either help or:





* *





or was that too mean:


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

Fried Eggz said:


> Sorry, I misread it.
> 
> Is there any reason why you still consider Ne as a possibility?
> 
> ...


This is something that annoys me more than I can express. I hate it when my mother does this. It's like no, I don't wanna marry that guy, I literally just think that he's funny! And I'm pretty sure that just because granddad said they'd like to buy new furniture but can't afford it right now, doesn't mean he's expecting you to empty your bank account and offer him all the money, so could you please stop acting like he just committed a federal offence?
I'm fairly sure that Se is in my stacking. Right now I'm considering the possibility of using Fi instead of Ti. Or using Se as an auxiliary function.


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

*resisting Fe*: *excessive need for independence and overlooks the needs of others*; refuses to prioritize important relationships or accommodate people; *fearful of commitment*; tendency to be *manipulative*, *careless*, irresponsible, or *callous with other people’s feelings*; sees *compassion *or emotional sensitivity *as a sign of weakness*; *refuses to acknowledge the perspectives of those one disagrees with*; prone to arrogance and condescension; completely out of touch with own feelings and emotions

*defensive loop*: subconsciously needs constant agreement or approval from others; *acts impulsively out of boredom or insecurity*; *cannot handle disagreement or criticism well*; tends to feel unappreciated by others/society; *difficulty making judgments or decisions without using outside sources for validation*; *seeks affirmation or admiration by dominating or manipulating social situations* (maybe?); unaware of own flaws/limitations; unaware of how one’s behavior actually affects others; seeks to define oneself through relationships, social status, or the perceptions of others with the unconscious intent to repress feelings of low self-confidence or emotional instability

*Se-Fe loop*: *compulsively seeks out fleeting affirmation/validation for being fun/bold/unconventional*, often through pandering or showing off things like status, style, achievements, talents/skills, or material wealth, but *cannot feel any meaning in accomplishments or find genuine self-confidence because of failing/refusing to carefully evaluate ideas, beliefs, and consequences before acting*

*Ne-Fe loop*: compulsively seeks out fleeting affirmation/validation for being clever/creative/*noncomformist*, often through showing off, humor, *manipulation*, flattery, or pursuing absurd ideas, but *cannot produce anything to truly take pride in or feel confident about because of failing/refusing to carefully evaluate ideas, priorities, and consequences before acting*

All in all, I'd say Se-Fe fits me better than Ne-Fe. And resisting Ni rather than Fe.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

narcissistic said:


> Yeah, sure you are:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Literally my first post in the thread was vaguely cited:


Fried Eggz said:


> The 'generic' Se-dom is a pragmatist. They want to gather experiences in everything. They like to test things (like theories and principles) to see if they work in practise and get a more realistic perspective.
> 
> This is basically how Carl Jung described them, but he was describing the idea of a 'pure type' with no other functions influencing them.


The Full citation: Carl Jung, Psychological types, chapter 10 (paraphrased)



narcissistic said:


> You either help or


You're doing nothing but spewing your opinion and giving nonsensical comparisons that aren't even opposites.


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## Valtire (Jan 1, 2014)

mockturtle said:


> This is something that annoys me more than I can express. I hate it when my mother does this. It's like no, I don't wanna marry that guy, I literally just think that he's funny! And I'm pretty sure that just because granddad said they'd like to buy new furniture but can't afford it right now, doesn't mean he's expecting you to empty your bank account and offer him all the money, so could you please stop acting like he just committed a federal offence?
> I'm fairly sure that Se is in my stacking. Right now I'm considering the possibility of using Fi instead of Ti. Or using Se as an auxiliary function.


Yes! You hate Ne. Do I need to say any more to convince you that you're not interested in using Ne (and thus not a Ne-type)?


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

Fried Eggz said:


> Yes! You hate Ne. Do I need to say any more to convince you that you're not interested in using Ne (and thus not a Ne-type)?


Oh, I'm convinced (and confused because I've never thought my mum might use Ne. And that looking for deeper meaning was a Ni thing). And I'd say it was my dominant function. Now all that's left is Fi/Ti. And they sound pretty much identical to me.
Which is easier, figuring out whether you use Ti/Fi as your auxiliary function or Fe/Te as your tertiary function?


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

> All in all, I'd say Se-Fe fits me better than Ne-Fe. And resisting Ni rather than Fe.


This is what I meant by you being an ESTP, but with some kind of ISTP switch that creates the Ti-Ni loops.



> Literally my first post in the thread was vaguely cited:
> 
> The 'generic' Se-dom is a pragmatist. They want to gather experiences in everything. They like to test things (like theories and principles) to see if they work in practise and get a more realistic perspective.
> 
> ...


Thank you by contributing with vague responses, that definitely helps someone understand something they lack knowledge of (mockturtle).



> You're doing nothing but spewing your opinion


Called being INTP hunny.



> giving nonsensical comparisons that aren't even opposites.


Now that's your opinion.

Anyways we've already established that mockturtle is an ESTP pages ago, but I suppose she wanted more clarification.


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> Anyways we've already established that mockturtle is an ESTP pages ago, but I suppose she wanted more clarification.


I wasn't quite ready to let Ne go...
ESTP and not ESFP, right? (Sorry, I like getting other people's opinion. Self-reflection isn't something I'm good at.)


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

mockturtle said:


> I wasn't quite ready to let Ne go...
> ESTP and not ESFP, right? (Sorry, I like getting other people's opinion. Self-reflection isn't something I'm good at.)


*Ti* makes decisions based on dispassionate calculation of outcomes

*Fi* makes decisions based on personal impact or moral values

*Se-Ti*: Healthy Ti means you seek to adapt to changes and solve problems as quickly as possible through learning from the direct feedback/consequences that your actions provoke. You prioritize making decisions that seem to you to be unbiased or free of irrelevant information. Unhealthy Ti often leads to bad judgment, impatience, resistance against careful thought/analysis, self-confidence issues, arrogance, or insensitivity to the needs of others/society.

*Se-Fi*: Healthy Fi means you seek to adapt to changes and reduce inner turmoil as quickly as possible through learning from the immediate moral and emotional impact that your actions provoke in yourself and/or others. You prioritize the need to make decisions that are empathetic and compassionate to the people involved above the need to solve problems immediately, especially for those whom you believe to fall within your care or responsibility. Unhealthy Fi often leads to harmful inconsistency in applying moral values, self-centeredness, low self-confidence, indecisiveness, lack of self-care, or lack of patience in handling difficult problems.


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

ESTP. I'm 98% sure.
Thanks :smile:


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

mockturtle said:


> ESTP. I'm 98% sure.
> Thanks :smile:


Yay, success:


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> Yay, success:


Better late than never :laughing:


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## mockturtle (Aug 1, 2015)

narcissistic said:


> Yay, success:


Better late than never :laughing:


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

@mockturtle - Glad you got to a type decision. Personally, I can see why you were confused, as your test scores were conflicted. However, your personal descriptions seemed ESTPish to me.
@narcissistic - you were in too big of a hurry to rush to a conclusion. This caused you to be blinded to other possibilities. Oh and it is "capiche."
@Fried Eggz - I generally agree with your take. You were helpful in keeping options open.


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## Eset (Jun 7, 2016)

@niss Thanks for the end summary on the case, I'll take notes for future cases.


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## Hycocritical truth teller (Aug 29, 2011)

I'm an ESTP who was typed as ENTP for quite a while.
How I figured I'm an ESTP:
- while I do imagine possibilities for the future I have no interest in it if I can exactly realise those possibilities. For me, things are always doable and I quickly find a way to do something and that's what keeps me energized. 
- too much randomNess and out of this world ideas can be annoying to me
- I'm not good with abstract. While I sometimes use metaphors I overall take things literary


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