# Am I more likely Se or Ne?



## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

I've gone around in circles with this for quite a while since I don't seem to fit the pattern of either, or maybe fit them both. I've read many books and articles regarding cognitive functions, the 16 types, and temperaments, and nothing has clicked so far. So this is the problem...

On the Se side, when I'm in nature, for example, a flower is a small pink flower, maybe beautiful or plain, nothing more, and I spend a large amount of time in that state. When I read about people's Ne experiences, it sounds as if most things they look at or think about trigger possibilities, and for me, that doesn't happen. Things I look at are what they are and I don't go beyond that.

On the Ne side, when I'm reading or talking to people, I'm all about possibilities, the wilder the better at times. I read probably 3 books a week, frequently based on various possibilities, different/more creative ways people have of looking at issues. I tend strongly toward independent thinking, if that makes a difference.

How can I be Ne when things I look at and my ordinary, daily life almost never trigger possibilities and I have to actually sit down and talk or read to get into possibilities? How can I be Se when I'm all about change and possibilities when I sit down and talk and in choice of reading material? My life has always been pretty much a 50/50 split time-wise between Se activities with Se-type people and Ne activities with Ne-type books and people. Neither one seems more "me." Other than that, I'm clearly ExxP, lol.

Has anyone experienced something similar, and if so, how was it resolved when deciding on type? Does anyone have an opinion as to whether I'm Se or Ne?


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## Inure Penumbra (May 13, 2012)

Ne  Se would see the textures in the flower and petals or tone of colour.. they might even notice the wind or colour contrast. stuff like that. but you could always be an Ni. what makes you think you're an EXXP?


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I just meant that the flowers don't have possibilities connected to them, the same with almost anything I contact using any of my senses. I definitely see the colors, shapes, even smells, and I always notice the clouds and other scenery.

This first came up because my INTJ husband said when we're in nature and he looks at something, it takes him a long time to go through all the possibilities that enter his mind, while my mind is saying something like, "Wow, a rose, and such an amazing red color," and nothing in terms of possibilities. The examples I've read of Ne's being in a forest have them following trains of thought, taking them away from the forest and into connections and possibilities. I stay with the forest and what I'm sensing. On the other hand, I never tire of talking theoretically, can do it literally for hours at a time covering many subjects. My husband even gets burned out, lol.

I'm P because I don't like to close things down, sometimes to the point of ridiculousness, and I have very little need to be by myself and much prefer to talk things out rather than think them out by myself, plus I have a fairly high need for stimulation, thus E.


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## Inure Penumbra (May 13, 2012)

Sarah said:


> Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I just meant that the flowers don't have possibilities connected to them, the same with almost anything I contact using any of my senses. I definitely see the colors, shapes, even smells, and I always notice the clouds and other scenery.
> 
> This first came up because my INTJ husband said when we're in nature and he looks at something, it takes him a long time to go through all the possibilities that enter his mind, while my mind is saying something like, "Wow, a rose, and such an amazing red color," and nothing in terms of possibilities. The examples I've read of Ne's being in a forest have them following trains of thought, taking them away from the forest and into connections and possibilities. I stay with the forest and what I'm sensing. On the other hand, I never tire of talking theoretically, can do it literally for hours at a time covering many subjects. My husband even gets burned out, lol.
> 
> I'm P because I don't like to close things down, sometimes to the point of ridiculousness, and I have very little need to be by myself and much prefer to talk things out rather than think them out by myself, plus I have a fairly high need for stimulation, thus E.


P/J are not to be mistaken for dichotomies. they simply serve as notation. ie. an MBTI code with J means that its judging function (T/F) will be extroverted. while a P type would have an extroverted sensing function (N/S). eg. INFJs have Fe while INFPs have Fi. im one example of an INFP who fears disorganisation

just wondering, how did you choose your avatar? what is its significance?


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

To add a couple more things... I've always been much more present than future oriented (maybe more Se) and I'm not particularly mainstream in my thinking (maybe Ne). I daily both fully immerse myself in sensing experiences and immerse myself in the study of such subjects as psychology, philosophy, conspiracy theories, simple living concepts, nutrition, how to build alternative structures, alternative ways of living, systems of gardening (though I don't garden, lol), the study of wild animals and plants -- whatever sounds interesting, especially with regard to different theoretical systems.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

choccrunchie said:


> P/J are not to be mistaken for dichotomies. they simply serve as notation. ie. an MBTI code with J means that its judging function (T/F) will be extroverted. while a P type would have an extroverted sensing function (N/S). eg. INFJs have Fe while INFPs have Fi. im one example of an INFP who fears disorganisation
> 
> just wondering, how did you choose your avatar? what is its significance?



I definitely use Pe as my dominant, in fact until I discovered MBTI, many of my INTJ husband's and my married issues stemmed from our J/P differences of his needing a quick resolution, whether right or wrong, and my need to gather more and more information and never becoming bored with it.


I've read probably 20 MBTI books and have spent hours pouring over cognitive function definitions and it always comes down to the split between my strong present orientation combined with a seeming difference with the typical Ne who sees things and looks at possibilities, versus my very strong interest and ability/need to engage in Ne when reading and talking things out with people, during which time I love to go off on tangents of whatever new possibility presents itself.


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## Inure Penumbra (May 13, 2012)

hmm ESFP..?

http://www.personalitypage.com/ESFP.html


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

choccrunchie said:


> i think you're an ESFJ



Definitely not Fe! My sister is ESFJ, my brother ENFJ, and I get pressure from them on a regular basis to "do" Fe with them.

I didn't notice until now... My avatar is me, heading out on both intellectual and physical adventures with no care as to whether I'm going to fall off a cliff (and I have many times!), the enjoyment and fascination with the journey and with newness pulling me along.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

choccrunchie said:


> hmm ESFP..?
> 
> Portrait of an ESFP



That's a possibility! When I bring up the fact that I've read something like 60 personality typing books and that I'm very alternative in my thinking -- more independent really, since I don't throw in my lot totally with either alternative or mainstream -- people jump on that and say I must be Ne. So I don't know what to think.

I'm off to bed, will be back tomorrow. Thanks for helping!


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Sounds like you are choosing between ESFP or ENFP unless you think you might be a thinker not a feeler?

I think you sound more Se than Ne.

Here are a couple of descriptions that might help:

Se: Extraverted Sensing

Ne: Extraverted iNtuiting (Ne)


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## Inure Penumbra (May 13, 2012)

Sarah said:


> Definitely not Fe! My sister is ESFJ, my brother ENFJ, and I get pressure from them on a regular basis to "do" Fe with them.
> 
> I didn't notice until now... My avatar is me, heading out on both intellectual and physical adventures with no care as to whether I'm going to fall off a cliff (and I have many times!), the enjoyment and fascination with the journey and with newness pulling me along.


sorry that was me forgetting about your interest in psychology and philosophy >.<


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

choccrunchie said:


> sorry that was me forgetting about your interest in psychology and philosophy >.<


ESFJs can be interested in these things too...


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Haha, Se-doms and ESFJs can all be interested in psychology and philosophy. ^_^ Also, it's not as though if you're an Se-dom you can't make connections or anything. All the perceiving functions make connections in some way or another, and it's hardly ever straightforward. Sensors are often seen as very practical, simple sorts of people who don't generally like psychology or heavy duty reading or other such things. 

By the way, Ne-doms don't necessarily focus on something "bigger" or "better". It just focuses on something different. Se's a useful little function.  

I'm leaning towards Se for you. I'm not sure if you're an Se-dom, though.


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## Zero11 (Feb 7, 2010)

Okay I go with ESTP (Se Ti Fe Ni)


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

umbrellasky said:


> Sounds like you are choosing between ESFP or ENFP unless you think you might be a thinker not a feeler?
> 
> I think you sound more Se than Ne.
> 
> ...



I guess I'm not quite in bed yet, lol. I'm unfortunately choosing between ESFP, ENFP and ENTP (not ESTP). I won't get into the T/F issue now, other than to mention -- and I'm not sure if there's a connection -- that I've never been able to talk to most females easily because I can't catch on to their style of thinking and talking to each other, plus our interests are frequently so different. It's very relaxing for me to talk to males since it's typically straightforward with nothing misunderstood and no game playing. Physically I don't seem male, but my mind seems to be in some ways, though I'm very fun loving.

I read through the links and like everything I've read, I can't decide. Sometimes I'm clearly N, sometimes clearly S, most times I seem equally either. I'm very present and experientially oriented, yet unlike a typical ESFP, I get bored with S-type talk and need something with more complexity and "depth," to understand the possibilities beyond the senses, even things like energy healing, and I've been like this since my early 20s. If forum people could tell me yes, an ESFP can be like that, then I might be an ESFP, if they say that's beyond the bounds of ESFP and into N, then I'm ENFP or ENTP. I can't seem to decide for myself, so I'm asking for people's experience with various types to help sort it out. I very well could be an ESFP, if people say it's possible with what I've written.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Zero11 said:


> Okay I go with ESTP (Se Ti Fe Ni)



That's interesting, and I said I ruled it out, but I'll rule it back in for now. I'm an admitted physical wimp and don't like to get hurt or unduly put myself in danger, yet I've done incredibly stupid things while engaging in mountain sports -- I'm lucky to be alive! -- and get really into gear with whatever sport I'm into. I've known all about motor boats, telemark skis, everything there is to know about backpacking equipment, even motorcycles when I had one for a brief time. But I don't come across *at all* like an ESTP -- more a fun-loving, goofy female. I was telling my husband earlier today that if I could just use the letters separately (E and S and T and P), it would all be solved, lol, but I don't really fit the pattern and like I said, don't come across as one in real life, especially since I can't keep up with men physically, or in anything close to macho-ness and don't want to.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

It's past 4:30 a.m. and I'm missing posts and jumping around out of tiredness, so I'm heading off to bed for sure, lol. It does seem like S is winning so far. Oh, btw, I almost never look at the past and have no interest in traditions or routines -- I find them irritating -- which is why I haven't been taking Si into account. Thanks for all comments, I'll read them again tomorrow when I have my brains back.


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## MissNobody (Aug 23, 2010)

Sarah said:


> That's interesting, and I said I ruled it out, but I'll rule it back in for now. I'm an admitted physical wimp and don't like to get hurt or unduly put myself in danger, yet I've done incredibly stupid things while engaging in mountain sports -- I'm lucky to be alive! -- and get really into gear with whatever sport I'm into. I've known all about motor boats, telemark skis, everything there is to know about backpacking equipment, even motorcycles when I had one for a brief time. But I don't come across *at all* like an ESTP -- more a fun-loving, goofy female. I was telling my husband earlier today that if I could just use the letters separately (E and S and T and P), it would all be solved, lol, but I don't really fit the pattern and like I said, don't come across as one in real life, especially since I can't keep up with men physically, or in anything close to macho-ness and don't want to.


Just because you are a 'wimp' physically, doesn't mean you can't be a thinker...

From what you've just said you sound like you could be an ESTP. 

Do you spend a lot of time doing things and being physically active? Would you consider yourself impulsive act in the moment sort of person?

The fact that you know a lot about 'machines' like motor boats and equipment, that to me indicates Ti. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong!

Do you enjoy taking things apart and looking at how they work? Are you quick to point out inconsistencies in things people say or in something you've read?

Take a look at Ti and Te, which do you recognise in yourself?

Ti: Introverted Thinking - (Ti)

Te: Extraverted Thinking (Te)


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## Jewl (Feb 28, 2012)

Whoa there, @Sarah. What do you consider "Intuitive" conversation? Sensors are most definitely complex and do in fact get into (and like getting into) "complex" things. 



> Oh, btw, I almost never look at the past and have no interest in traditions or routines -- I find them irritating -- which is why I haven't been taking Si into account.


And that is not Si. Traditions or routines actually have little to do with type (although some here and there). And this is definitely not something that ought to be assigned to Si. Sensing has nothing to do with how physically active you are, or how coordinated you are. Remember, we all have both Sensing and Intuitive functions within us, so we all use both. Although it is true we have a preference for one or the other. 

I would suggest studying cognitive functions. It may help you. 

It would also be helpful if you'd fill out the Questionnaire. Preferably the new one.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

Hello there,

I have gathered that your question has not been answered yet.

The best way to find out your type is to figure out which functions you do not use or have little preference for using.

I'm surprised you have not figured it out yet after reading so many books. Have you read any of Carl Jung's books?
What makes you think you use sensing over intuition as a dominant function? Try to use an example that doesn't involve nature or flowers.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

umbrellasky said:


> Just because you are a 'wimp' physically, doesn't mean you can't be a thinker...
> 
> From what you've just said you sound like you could be an ESTP.
> 
> ...



Sorry I was gone so long! I do spend a lot of time being physically active and I'm very strongly an impulsive act in the moment sort of person, in fact that almost defines me, lol. Freedom and fun are strong, maybe top, priorities in my life, to the point where I get stressed if I have to make any kind of appointment, other than work. I pretty much never plan anything, my life is lived by impulse. I don't enjoy taking things apart and seeing how they work but I love understanding the gear involved, particularly with regard to sports. I never used to care about clothes until I moved closer to the mountains, then I went crazy buying gear for both summer and winter mountain travel -- it was super fun researching and trying out the gear. I used to joke that I was finally into clothes, lol. I also love buying the exact right, efficient item for the exact right purpose, more than buying something pretty. I don't always point out inconsistencies in what people say -- though I do with my husband so I can get a better understanding of what he means -- but I am very good at spotting where something goes awry, whether through talking or reading, and understanding how to make it right. Honestly, I see myself more in Ti, but haven't ruled out a misunderstanding and that I'm actually Te as in ExFP. I've noticed there are a lot of people on forums who can't sort out which functions they're using, no matter how much they read about it, and I seem to be one of them. I've read at least a dozen sites' cognitive functions explanations and have gone through Jung's definitions.

Someone on this forum said something like there's a sweet spot between not enough analysis and too much, and I think I've flipped over into way way too much, lol, and I've entirely confused myself. I am in my 40s, which can also confuse the issue, and from an early age I was pushed into using F and N. It's like at this point I'm a hybrid, and though I understand the issue of using a MBTI lens through which life is seen, I'm not stupid and finding my Myers-Briggs type has been a big deal to me yet I seem to cycle through most everything except Si on a regular basis. When I'm talking to someone about alternative healing, for example, we can spend sometimes hours talking about all the possibilities involved in using various types of healing modalities, including energy healing, making connections between methods and connecting it all to spirituality, having insight after insight. If that's not N, I don't know what is, and I talk like that on a regular basis. Insights are important to me, as is clarity.

I'll answer the other posts soon.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Julia Bell said:


> Whoa there, @Sarah. What do you consider "Intuitive" conversation? Sensors are most definitely complex and do in fact get into (and like getting into) "complex" things.
> 
> 
> And that is not Si. Traditions or routines actually have little to do with type (although some here and there). And this is definitely not something that ought to be assigned to Si. Sensing has nothing to do with how physically active you are, or how coordinated you are. Remember, we all have both Sensing and Intuitive functions within us, so we all use both. Although it is true we have a preference for one or the other.
> ...



I guess I answered part of this post in my previous one. I consider Intuitive conversations to be focused on possibilities and insights not directly connected to the senses, though I might be wrong. I've studied cognitive functions quite a bit, which hasn't helped. I see myself fairly strongly in most of them, with no one being clearly me. It depends on how they're written up as to which I seem to be. In Jung, I see myself a little more in Ne than Se, though I'm thinking I'm not Ne but have just been talking with Ne's and doing that type of study so long that it feels like me. Who knows? As to traditions or routines having little to do with type, even function descriptions will bring them up:

"There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes."

Introverted Sensing (Si)

It could also be that I'm reading too many books that don't know what they're talking about, such as Keirsey, among others.

I might fill out the questionnaire if I can't sort this out.  And thanks for the sentence about Sensing and physical activity/coordination.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Cetanu said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I have gathered that your question has not been answered yet.
> 
> ...


I think I've answered most of these in my last 2 posts. I'm surprised too! Though I'm not the only person experiencing this. I also came across a site that said approx. 3 percent of people can't figure out their type, even with expert help, though I'm hoping I'm not one of them.

A few years ago, before I got into MBTI, I had the realization that most other people seemed to think about the future way more than I did. I started watching myself and saw that I did seem to be very presented oriented, in fact I consider one of my best gifts to be enjoying the moment, though of course it's always more fun when I get to choose what I'm doing in the moment, lol. As an example outside of nature, when I dance, I'm fully into the movement, can feel the music throughout my body. I'm not particularly coordinated, but I love it. I know this is nature, but when I backcountry ski through powder snow it's an all-encompassing feeling where there's nothing in the world but the experience. When I talk to people, I don't have tons of possibilities crowd into my head, I'm mostly just there talking to them. The possibilities do frequently end up crowding in, but it's usually not instantaneous, I first am in the moment, laughing and listening. I sound like an idiot, lol, but I do have a fairly high IQ, it's just that the experiencing comes first, then the possibilities and analyzing.

Since I don't want to start yet another post, I'll just tack this on here. I skimmed though what people said early today and at dinner I spent quite a long time bringing up examples to my husband of how I could be an ESTP. I have more examples of that type with regard to myself than any other type. We were both kind of shocked. :-0 I'm just a giggly female, I'm not one of those motorcycle mamas. I know that's a cliche, but it's amazing how many books discuss ESTP in that manner -- I just don't see myself in them at all. And those sites that connect looks to MBTI type -- I have no idea if there's any truth to it, but looking at the ESTP females make me bite my nails in fear that I'll meet them in a dark alley, lol. I'm not like that *at all*. Yet I've gone about my life as if I'm ESTP in so many ways... It's very confusing. BTW, I had another name here -- Karen -- a password mess-up at some point, and as Karen I started a thread called something like "I'm an SP/ENTP." I can't remember for sure, but I think I came to that from reading Keirsey. Especially in his book Personology, I think exactly like an NT/Rational, eerily so, and act like an SP/Artisan. Put them together and ESTP.  That could be why I've been going in circles with ENFP, ENTP, ESFP, because I wasn't considering ESTP. This is something I read today about ESTPs:

"ESTPs put people at ease, while ESTJs can seem highly opinionated and uncomfortably direct. This is one of the great paradoxes of EP types. Due to the directionality of the functions, EP Thinking types extravert Feeling and resemble Feeling types...."

Personality Junkie | ESTP

That sounds like me, and might be a clue as to why I kept thinking F for my type. But also on this same page, this isn't me at all:

"...it can still be problematic when S types occupy leadership roles that require an ability to see the big picture and consider long-terms implications. This can be clearly seen in debates over environmental regulation, in which N types can clearly see the grave consequences of inaction, while S types (especially STs) seem more concerned with the short-term effects of stricter regulations on the economy."

I can easily see the big picture -- because I've been around so many N's who talk about the big picture so that I fully grasp it and always take it into account, or because I'm N? I just about always vote big picture. Are these types of articles painting a narrow, stereotypical picture of S's, or are most of them truly like that? That's what is confusing...which do I believe?

Well, I don't know what to think, lol. If anyone has any comments, I'd love to hear them.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

You should do the photo test. What is this? What do you see? Because really its sort of silly to try to look for Se vs Ne as they are purposed for two very different things (that are somewhat contradictory). We really want to know if you preference is for Se or Si since both deal with sensory perception (and then we can determine Ne by inference).


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Hi @LiquidLight! Thanks for doing this.  This is exactly what I thought... I love those light rooms where so much is a shade of white since it makes me think of freedom and purity/clarity, almost Zen spiritual, like a strong message that isn't diffused. For some reason I especially like the white sheets, though normally I like some color in the sheets. When I look at a scene like that, I first check my body to see how it makes me feel about the scene, and this is freeing and light but not as much as it could be, since the colors aren't quite white enough, like in a movie I saw, I think with Michelle Pfeiffer. It might be a futon and it does look somewhat simple living, like you want comfort but also want to be able to jump up and run with no fuss, so I might get along well with the person since we might have similar life outlooks. The gray carpet is a somewhat jarring note. The pillow reminds me of an apricot, considering the color. For some reason I picture a man sleeping there, and he jumped up and ran as soon as he woke up because the day holds something fun. Like my house, there are no pictures or nicknacks, since I like a clean look that doesn't hem me in and where I don't get tired of looking at the same thing every day -- kind of a Zen simplicity. My friend Jon taught me that, and it's always worked for me. Not to mention the whole look requires very little dusting. Also no bedspread...I'm beginning to really like this person, not being overly tied by belongings.  Though I would have made the bed.

Well, hope I didn't bore anyone.


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## Bast (Mar 23, 2011)

I have a hunch that you might be an ENFP.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Sarah said:


> Hi @_LiquidLight_! Thanks for doing this.  This is exactly what I thought... I love those light rooms where so much is a shade of white since it makes me think of freedom and purity/clarity, almost Zen spiritual, like a strong message that isn't diffused. For some reason I especially like the white sheets, though normally I like some color in the sheets. When I look at a scene like that, I first check my body to see how it makes me feel about the scene, and this is freeing and light but not as much as it could be, since the colors aren't quite white enough, like in a movie I saw, I think with Michelle Pfeiffer. It might be a futon and it does look somewhat simple living, like you want comfort but also want to be able to jump up and run with no fuss, so I might get along well with the person since we might have similar life outlooks. The gray carpet is a somewhat jarring note. The pillow reminds me of an apricot, considering the color. For some reason I picture a man sleeping there, and he jumped up and ran as soon as he woke up because the day holds something fun. Like my house, there are no pictures or nicknacks, since I like a clean look that doesn't hem me in and where I don't get tired of looking at the same thing every day -- kind of a Zen simplicity. My friend Jon taught me that, and it's always worked for me. Not to mention the whole look requires very little dusting. Also no bedspread...I'm beginning to really like this person, not being overly tied by belongings.  Though I would have made the bed.
> 
> Well, hope I didn't bore anyone.


LOL. So Introverted Sensation that much we can be sure. 

Also this picture was taken at the house of a person who had just died. This is the bed he slept in. The reason I post this picture is because of its ambiguity (the photographer was a Si type as well). 

In Jung's basic explanation Se simply observes the world at face value without interjecting anything from within on to that observation (he uses Van Gogh as an example of a Si-type who spent his paintings articulating something that only he understood - I use Ansel Adams as an example of a Se-type dedicated to photographing the world as it is). When I did this before it was noticeable the difference between Se and Si doms (Si is subjective perception where the focus is on what you get out of the observation rather than the innate qualities of the object -- so to me as a Se-type I just see a clean room, where you saw Zen - notice how you jumped back into your mind to attach some quality to the observation and personalize it). The Se-types typically noted the colors and the weird pillow, the messiness, the lack of people, all sort of the obvious, where the Si-types almost always spoke of it in terms of things that only they could understand, like emptiness or coldness, or in you case, clean, simple, not tied to belongings and the fact that you check your sensation against what your body tells you (which is sort of definitively Introverted Sensation). 

With Si we're just talking about perception via the five senses, same as Se, but like all introverted functions, the subjective, and personal is referenced first. All of the symbolism and meaning you spoke of came from with in, but related directly to the sensory experience (not in a Ni kinda way - intuition would really downplay the entirety of the sense perception in favor of some other type of symbolism). The fact that the room is 'freeing' and 'not light enough' suggest you are checking against an internal standard an internal image (again that's what introversion does) rather than accepting at face value which is what extraversion is. So I think by this its pretty safe to say your preference is Si/Ne (or Ne/Si). You then understand why Si needs Ne, because with Si perception becomes reality and you need Ne to open you up to the possibilities that things may not be what you perceive them to be.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

That's interesting! I can't imagine I'm Si dominant, though, but maybe Ne?

I got to bed at 4:30 a.m. last night so I'm heading off to bed now and will read over your post tomorrow. Thanks for explaining...I appreciate it!


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Not saying you are Si-dom. Just that you have a Si preference. You may very well be ENFP.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

BTW, I thought these types of picture tests were supposed to have stories attached, so I discussed the first ones that occurred to me, lol. I hope I didn't screw up the test, but likely not, since who I am must have shown through anyway.


Edit: Oh, okay, maybe I am. I'm open to anything at this point. Thanks for helping, it was interesting going through the test.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Sarah said:


> BTW, I thought these types of picture tests were supposed to have stories attached, so I discussed the first one that occurred to me, lol. I hope I didn't screw up the test, but likely not, since who I am must have shown through anyway.


No the whole point is ambiguity. To just see what the first thing that comes to the person's mind is so that its uninfluenced. That's why i choose such a ambiguous image so people can really let their minds go. @Kito has a whole thread of this http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/98508-cognitive-function-picture-game.html and when you read the descriptions you can really see the differences between the Se and Si types.


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## Cetanu (Jan 20, 2012)

Before your response I thought that you would be ExxP as you stated earlier.
After your response I speculated that you were an ESFP because you said that you may be an ESTP but I did not believe this because I did not believe that you are a Fe user.
After seeing your response to the picture that was posted shortly after I saw that you most definitely preferred Si over Se and thus conclude that you must be an ENFP (at least at this point in time or until we receive further information.)


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Many years ago my friend, who did official MBTI tests as part of her job, gave me the test to take home but didn't double check my results. The results were clearly INTP, with no dichotomies very close, then I dropped it for years until finding personality typing on the Internet and deciding to research. I still thought I was INTP until I watched YouTubes and realized that wasn't me at all -- I'm too animated. That started me down the years-long search for who I really am Myers-Briggs-wise. I still have that test and when I re-take it, it still says INTP, but I've since realized I fall through the cracks, such as enjoying one-on-one conversations within groups as much as and sometimes more than group discussion, but not liking to be alone and needing to go out and do something fun/interesting/experiential/knowledge-oriented almost all the time. BTW, it's not that I don't know myself overall since I've been through many other personality typing methods and it's usually clear who I am, it's just in a Myers-Briggs sense I can't seem to either understand what the functions are or since my early 20s have manifested all over the map, to the point where I can't easily separate them now.

These are some of my problems with regard to ENFP. First, the scoring of T on the test, though that's not a definitive answer, the fact that most people see me as T, that I can almost always out-logic my INTJ husband, that I can't understand how females think and feel much more comfortable with males (the more straight-forward and logical the better), very few to none of my interests are "female," that when it comes to a choice I choose focusing on tasks rather than how people are doing, that the lack of logic in people frustrates me more than their lack of caring (though both can be bothersome -- depends on the situation), that my husband thinks I'm T and our main way of relating, besides fun, is on a T level of logical/objective analysis of situations. The forgoing is just to show that it's not simple in my mind, not that I'm definitely T.

With regard to N, a few months ago I found out my husband is flooded with possibilities on a regular basis and is the reason I brought up nature as an example. He explained that he'll look at something like a cloud and that's just a jumping off point for him in his thoughts, where I'm with the cloud the entire time, being interested to amazed at shapes, colors, what's behind the cloud that I'm able to see, the fact that it's interesting that the cloud has no choice but to be that shape, height and color because physical aspects of the atmosphere require what I'm seeing and nothing else. This is from Personality Junkie, a site linked from PerC and which I just discovered a couple days ago:

"As a child, I would occasionally go on long car rides with my ESTP father. He loved driving because it provided him the constant change in scenery needed to stimulate his Se. It was a rare occasion when he did not “spot” something to bring to my attention: a deer prancing through a far away field, a rare sports car, or a hawk scoping out its prey from above. Only rarely could he be found attending to the road ahead, since he was always on the look out for something novel and interesting."

Personality Junkie | ESTP

That is so totally me, and my husband drives to give me that stimulation opportunity. I'm fascinated every second of the drive, no matter where we're driving, and will constantly point out interesting things. At no time do I look at possibilities -- it's all present oriented, pointing out what is, shapes, colors. I don't particularly like driving around at night, since there's so much less to see. Also, when I was growing up and even now, I've never been interested in fantasy stories or science fiction since I need to have more realism, even in fiction.

This is ISTJ:

"Rather than contemplating the future (N) or celebrating the present (Se), ISTJs keep at least one eye on the past (Si). They seek to protect and preserve past methods, traditions, and conventions. This is why David Keirsey classifies them as 'guardians.' They grow attached to the familiar, routine, and expected."

Personality Junkie | ISTJ

There's hardly a single sentence in the entire ISTJ section that's like me, and if the site had an ISFJ section, it would be the same. My writing about the picture might have been Si, but that's not how I usually think. From a couple previous picture tests I'd come across, I thought I was supposed to make up a story, which I did. My daily talking and thinking don't consist of much of that function, which I know after watching my thoughts and behavior for *months* trying to figure out who I am, lol. I know that I don't go around connecting things to what I used to know as much as I am focused on what's in the present. I think the pictures are like the test -- an indication, but not a definitive proof.

What I finally came up with is that it's impossible, no matter how much I post, to show what I'm really like. Some people on PerC are convinced, from my writing, that I'm T, some that I'm F, some that I'm N, some S, so I think in my case, it's pretty much hopeless. Someday I'll find an MBTI expert to visit in real life to try to sort this out and if that happens, I'll report on my findings. (It won't be the friend who gave me the original test since she's since moved away and then died). Thanks for trying one last time, everyone -- I do appreciate it and it's always a learning experience for me in other ways, even though I need to give up on it for myself.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

To add something else... I was in a car accident years ago and can't carry a pack on my back anymore. To add to that, I ended up in nowheresville with adrenal exhaustion, so over the years I've focused my attention and stimulation needs quite a bit more on the computer, which is why I go on and on talking, in case anyone is using that as a way to spot my type. I used to really dislike writing but am now dependent on it and enjoy it more. I also didn't used to be overly interested in who I am, but I've become hooked on personality typing. If not for the accident, I'd hardly be home enough to write much on the computer.  Though I've always read and researched and I'd fit it in here and there -- fast reader.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

Oh, hmmm, one more thing that's kind of weird. My INTJ husband takes the stereotypically "female" side more often than I do, though he's obviously male and I'm obviously female. He wants to do the relatives' tradition thing where I just want to go away and do something fun with the time, usually nature connected. He wants security, where I don't care. He wants a house, I'm not interested in the major hassle of them with very little positive in return. He wants long-term friends, I tend to change friends on a regular basis, depending on what type of activity I'm engaged in, and I leave friends behind fairly easily and make new ones quickly, though we both engage in equal depth with friends we have. He cares about clothes, clothes bore me unless it's a sports or functionality issue. I'm all about movement, outward looking, newness, learning, fun, ideas, sports, talking, independence in thinking and living, integrity and honesty, freedom, knowledge, and I do like to work at jobs I like and am a hard worker, though maybe it doesn't sound like it, lol. I'm best at jobs that require analysis.

Okay, that's it, I've just been waiting for my husband to get off work and my mind keeps running with this.


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

I might have figured out my type -- ENTP. I had an amazing insight yesterday, the one I've been waiting for to explain my confusion, and now I see why I thought I was Se and could likely have passed for Se among people with that dominant function. It also pretty much explains the F, but I'll leave that open for now.

@LiquidLight, you were right about the Si. I researched and realizd the body sensing I was doing wasn't Se but Si. And yes, the picture too, but I was so positive I was being Se in life that I thought Si couldn't be right. It still isn't how I usually think, but it does fit with both ENTP and ENFP.

After I had my insight, I looked up my first official MBTI test score from over 10 years ago and where I thought all functions were close, it turned out the T was a lot stronger than the F. My husband said I should give that weight, and after talking it through and realizing I've likely been over analyzing the T/F (he said the way I was looking at it, someone would have to be severely autistic to be T, lol), I thought it very likely that I'm T. T explains so much about my life, especially Ti. Then I read this article...

Personality Junkie | ENTP

...and almost every sentence fit me, more than any description of ENTP I've come across, in fact any description of any type, while the ENFP didn't fit as closely. In the past while reading through ENFP and ENTP posts and descriptions, I seemed not as "nice" as ENFPs and too nice for ENTPs, but the flavor of that article gets at who I am, what I do, how I look at the world. Also, in both the ENTP and ENFP descriptions the author says this: "At first glance, Se and Ne types may appear quite similar (*such conflation can be seen, for instance, in the Enneagram type Seven*), since both ESPs and ENPs can be outwardly active, playful, and restless." I'm an Enneagram 7 and that made sense with what I've experienced.

So now I'm wondering, do these descriptions have validity? Any opinions? I haven't decided yet but I might post later in the ENTP section to see what they think, but I'd appreciate opinions here if anyone wants to post them.

I'm heading out for a few hours but I'll check back later today.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

The defining characteristic of the extraverted intuitive is their ability (or appeal) to sniffing out possibilities. Seeing around the corner if you will. I'll quote Psychotherapy



> Extraverted Intuition is a function by which we conceive outer possibilities. A sensation type could say about a bell, "This is a bell," but a child would say that you could do all sorts of things with that, it could be a church tower, and a book could be the village, and something else could be another object, and so on. In everything there is a possibility of development; thus intuition in mythology is very often represented by the nose. One says, "I smell a rat," that is, my intuition tells me that there is something fishy about. I don't know quite what, but I can smell it! We perceive such possibilities, and then three-weeks later the rat or the cat is out of the bag and you say, "Oh, I smelled it, I had a hunch there was something in the air!" These are not yet materialized, unborn possibilities, the germs of the future. Intuition is therefore the capacity for intuiting that which is not yet visible, future possibilities or potentialities in the background of a situation.
> 
> The Extraverted Intuitive type applies this to the outer world and therefore will be very gifted and score very high in surmising the outer developments of the external situation in general. Such types are very often to be found among business people who have the courage to manufacture new inventions and put them on the market. You find them also among journalists and frequently among publishers. They are the people who know what will be popular next year and will do big business because they will bring out something which is not yet the fashion but soon will be, and they are the first to put it on the market. You find them also among stockbrokers, who, beyond the normal calculation based on reading of newspapers and financial reports of a commercial concern, will have a certain something which tells them that a certain stock will go up, the market will be bullish, and they will make money through sensing the rise and fall of stocks. You find them wherever there is something new brewing, and you find them also in the more spiritual realm. They will always be in the advance movement, interested in the advanced aspects of a science, and they are full of enterprise and will speculate as to the outcome of this, and how something else could be used, and another thing disseminated among people and so on.
> 
> ...


I think Von Franz, as someone who worked closely with Jung himself, offers up some of the best definitions of the types out there and I think she nails it with this one (its much better than half of what you read out on the internet).


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

I'm running out the door but had a quick read through. Sounds like me in most ways, especially the way I think/look at the world, non-fact-based overall but craving information, and that I can see patterns and how they will play out in the future, and usually ride the wave of newness so that by the time others are there, I'm onto something else. Thanks for posting!


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## Karen (Jul 17, 2009)

For various reasons, some of which I now understand, I don't go through life quite the same way as other Ne's seem to in the sense of seeing possibilities everywhere, and that's been my main confusion and has had me wondering about being Se. In the link I posted, the author says Ne's are interested in ideas, connections, possibilities, meanings and what is hidden. I don't look at possibilities unless I'm reading or talking, but I'm theoretically oriented overall and take most subjects to the big picture viewpoint. Meanings are also important to me, as are connections and what is hidden. The fact that looking at things doesn't trigger possibilities inherent in them has been a stumbling block, but I do have the rest of the Ne viewpoint toward life. I also can talk much more easily to my ENFJ brother than my ESFJ sister, since she talks almost entirely in actualities and my brother about meanings and what is possible, as I do.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Sarah said:


> For various reasons, some of which I now understand, I don't go through life quite the same way as other Ne's seem to in the sense of seeing possibilities everywhere, and that's been my main confusion and has had me wondering about being Se. In the link I posted, the author says Ne's are interested in ideas, connections, possibilities, meanings and what is hidden. I don't look at possibilities unless I'm reading or talking, but I'm theoretically oriented overall and take most subjects to the big picture viewpoint. Meanings are also important to me, as are connections and what is hidden. The fact that looking at things doesn't trigger possibilities inherent in them has been a stumbling block, but I do have the rest of the Ne viewpoint toward life. I also can talk much more easily to my ENFJ brother than my ESFJ sister, since she talks almost entirely in actualities and my brother about meanings and what is possible, as I do.


All this just sounds like a general preference for intuition. Hidden meanings, subtext, reading between the lines, etc. A true Extraverted Sensation preference would really be oriented to the world as it is, and would likely be somewhat suspicious of anything not tangible. They generally trust what's right in front of them in the moment and would downplay anything to the contrary, because to them "if i see it, then I can believe it." For instance, many Extraverted Sensation types have issues with religion for this very reason as the idea of believing in a god they can't see they might find troubling or silly (but at the same time may ignore their own tendency to be superstitious or read symbolism into things). The intuitive generally lives in the mindset of that which is intangible. Seeing without physically seeing, knowing without intellectually knowing. You can understand that this intuitive mindset would be problematic to a person predisposed toward the world as is.


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