# How Are ENFJ's Manipulative?



## Judgment_Knight (Feb 1, 2015)

Apparently my ESTP friend said that ENFJ's are manipulative. But then again, that's after their relationship had gone foul. But then again, ENFJ's are on the list of being manipulative on the internet.

I can see why an ENFP can be manipulative, though. This is just in the case of one ENFP. Like asking for favors and not actually doing work themselves and without saying please and stuff or trying to understand it for themselves first. It's really draining and kinda like free labor. BUT SHE'S SO SMART!!! But she doesn't really have her priorities in check.

Maybe ENFJ's could be similar to that? That's the closest I can get to see how they may be manipulative...or am I getting the definition of manipulation wrong? I can't seem to pick up on it. 

Because identification would be kinda cool, or at least being able to differentiate between social behaviors.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

ENFJs are not as manipulative as ENTPs and ESTPs. ENFJs only manipulate variables for some greater purpose in their minds as opposed to the ExTP who does it for fun or to elicit a reaction sometimes.


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## Judgment_Knight (Feb 1, 2015)

Bugs said:


> ENFJs are not as manipulative as ENTPs and ESTPs. ENFJs only manipulate variables for some greater purpose in their minds as opposed to the ExTP who does it for fun or to elicit a reaction sometimes.


Huh...so maybe that's why it's easier for me to see ENTPs' and ESTPs' manipulation (because it's more direct as opposed to an ENFJ's more subtle direction).


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## Glory (Sep 28, 2013)

ENFJs manipulate for fuck all, they only control the atmosphere for a social orgy.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

Judgment_Knight said:


> Huh...so maybe that's why it's easier for me to see ENTPs' and ESTPs' manipulation (because it's more direct as opposed to an ENFJ's more subtle direction).


It's easier because ENTPs and ESTPs won't really give strong (ethical) reasoning behind their manipulation. When I "push peoples' buttons" its because I just want to get to the core logic of their thinking and don't always care if it pisses them off a bit. However, an ENFJ's manipulation can be just as aggressive ( even more aggressive) as an ExTP depending on the weight of the purpose they put behind it. ENFJs will very much agree with the concept of breaking a few eggs to make an omelet for the greater good even if it requires bending the truth. 

Curiously ENTPs and ESTPs will rarely bend the truth but rather present it aggressively if the situation warrants it even if it causes social discord. ENFJs are more about weighing harmony with cold truth and will put heavy emphasis on the harmony aspect. " Yeah , this may be true but there is a greater truth in maintaining harmony" sort of thing. This is inferior Ti being trampled by Fe. INFJs/ISFJs are more likely to be more balanced with harmony/logic.


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## StoneMoon (Dec 23, 2013)

Well, ENFJs can be "manipulative" even when they mean no harm, because their preferred way of solving problems is through Fe and with Ni they can have a very specific vision of how the outcome should be. Most likely they might not even realize someone sees them as manipulative, because they didn't have any selfish intent... : p It's obviously not all ENFJs but some that I know almost always think they know the best way for everyone and don't even realize they think that. Especially those who have less developed aux Ni can be completely unaware of alternatives, and take it for granted that everyone has the same vision as them. So, when they guide everyone to that direction and later someone sees the outcome isn't as good for them as the ENFJ made in seem like they can feel betrayed and manipulated... Of course, with some people who have a prejudice against that strong Fe approach, an ENFJ can always seem manipulative (compared to ESFJs because that Ni is always going to make them look more purposeful), no matter what their intend is. <: D (Not saying there aren't selfishly manipulative ENFJs but in general the type may LOOK more manipulative than they mean to be.)


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## Tridentus (Dec 14, 2009)

Judgment_Knight said:


> I can see why an ENFP's can be manipulative, though. This is just in the case of one ENFP. Like asking for favors and not actually doing work themselves and without saying please and stuff or trying to understand it for themselves first. It's really draining and kinda like free labor. BUT SHE'S SO SMART!!! But she doesn't really have her priorities in check.


God. I'm an ENFP myself and I know exactly what you're on about. Other ENFPs like that are so annoying.

The main reason why people might think of an ENFJ as manipulative is from their Fe- in that if they have a moral belief they think is right, some Fe-users will take it upon themselves to try to make other people follow along with their "truth".


ESTPs are very practical, independent and tend to be straight-forward action people.. An ENFJ who tries to overly "control" their moral environment could easily be very annoying and interfering to an ESTP.


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## Judgment_Knight (Feb 1, 2015)

Bugs said:


> It's easier because ENTPs and ESTPs won't really give strong (ethical) reasoning behind their manipulation. When I "push peoples' buttons" its because I just want to get to the core logic of their thinking and don't always care if it pisses them off a bit. However, an ENFJ's manipulation can be just as aggressive ( even more aggressive) as an ExTP depending on the weight of the purpose they put behind it. ENFJs will very much agree with the concept of breaking a few eggs to make an omelet for the greater good even if it requires bending the truth.
> 
> Curiously ENTPs and ESTPs will rarely bend the truth but rather present it aggressively if the situation warrants it even if it causes social discord. ENFJs are more about weighing harmony with cold truth and will put heavy emphasis on the harmony aspect. " Yeah , this may be true but there is a greater truth in maintaining harmony" sort of thing. This is inferior Ti being trampled by Fe. INFJs/ISFJs are more likely to be more balanced with harmony/logic.


Wow, you're really right about the harmony thing, come to think about it. So much sacrifice, so much blood...

About the core logic thing: Generally people don't think thematically, but the identification of one's subconscious/core thoughts sounds pretty interesting. Kinda like prying open a book, but probably not really.

I think ENFJs probably want to be thanked as the savior of everyone's day, like a captain gliding the Titanic away from the iceberg.


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## Bugs (May 13, 2014)

> The main reason why people might think of an ENFJ as manipulative is from their Fe- in that if they have a moral belief they think is right, some Fe-users will take it upon themselves to try to make other people follow along with their "truth".


An ENFJ won't generate their view on ethics from within themselves like an Fi-user. ENFJs would rather point everyone to a common principle or common good and help align people ( including themselves) to that common denominator. ENFJs and strong Fe in particular believes in good as an abstract , some ideal that exists outside of people's subjective interpretations and believe all people should strive to that goal. Just listen to Martin Luther King Jr's "I had a dream" speech which is oozing with Fe-Ni.


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## IAmOrangeToday (Sep 30, 2011)

ENFJs are manipulative, but it's perhaps too strong a word for what they do. ENFJs modify their behaviour and public persona to be more successful in a given environment. Of course, success depends on what they're trying to achieve. An ENFJ in charge might look quite different in another scenario where they are in a more backseat role. Generally, they're looking to be validated through social cohesion and harmony, popularity if possible (but more in terms of being generally accepted and liked than being the centre of attention) and being respected as competent at their function. 

So basically, ENFJs adopt different personas in a fluid identity, but they usually have good intentions behind it. They want everyone to be happy, and they want to be validated.


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

I could see how Fe and Ni could combine for manipulation. According to celebrity types, Oprah is an ENFJ. ENFJs on Personality hacker were referred to as cult leaders (in the nicest way possible :smilet-digitalpoint). Of course, this doesn't mean all ENFJs are this way; just that if they wanted to be like that they'd be well equipped. 

And maybe manipulative implies a certain negative value judgment. A positive word would be _charismatic_.

I'd say more, but I'm off to cook my ENFJ wife dinner...


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## Eggsies (Feb 5, 2013)

Glory said:


> ENFJs manipulate for fuck all, they only control the atmosphere for a social orgy.


Thank you based shadow.


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## Eggsies (Feb 5, 2013)

Bugs said:


> ENFJs and strong Fe in particular believes in good as an abstract , some ideal that exists outside of people's subjective interpretations and believe all people should strive to that goal.


No, good (and bad alike) is entirely subjective to the sentience that conceptualizes it.

accidental double post


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## originalsin (Sep 4, 2014)

ENFJs can be the most manipulative because they have the ability to be the most manipulative, that Fe-Ni can be dazzling (like Margaery on Game of Thrones, I don't think I could ever not be her puppet if I was her husband). I don't think they're necessarily more inclined to manipulate though than other types, they're just better at it when they _are _inclined.


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## OliveBranch (Aug 30, 2017)

It's pretty much a contradiction when ENFJ's or INFJ's are manipulative. This is obviously not all of them, but when they are, it is not out of a loving place. You are basically their tool to reach their desired end product.


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## naren (Dec 6, 2017)

best way is to be with an enfj when they are in trouble and have to use manipulation,i cant describe it,they just have such deep insight into people that they know exactly what to do and say to get them to do something


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## Katie Tran (Apr 8, 2017)

No offense to Bugs but when an ENTP tries to manipulate, it's literally so obvious. 
You have got to be really naive to not see through it. 

ESTPs are some of the most straightforward thinking people I know and they're direct. When they do try to manipulate, however, again look at Trump. Only a tiny group actually buys that shit?
What they got is their charm and can instinctively make people feel comfortable around them, I'll say that but c'mon. Everyone knows more than to reveal too much lol.

I have an ENFJ coworker. He oozes of warmth and charm. He flirts with every single female in the vicinity and make them feel like their the only woman on the spot.
I hate to admit it, but there was a time I almost fell for it. Now, it's simply painful to watch from the sidelines as so many of my female coworkers crush on him only for me to see that he's secretly been getting all of the Latina's phone numbers because his real preferences are Latinas and everyone else were just mere toys for him to be valued.

Also, there's my ENFJ mom but that's another story. Can't believe I grew up 21 years of that but yeah...I'll give it to the ENFJs. 

ENFPs who think they're ENTP/ENFJ try to look edgy and manipulate but it's a huge fail, everyone can see it, it's cringey as fuck. Stop.


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## Robert2928 (Apr 6, 2012)

@*Alassea Telrunya*
I beat my friends think similar when I seem like a "nice guy" but I am trolling someone so hard. IT's not even where ENFJs try to manipulate however we do know the "game" when it comes to social values, social beliefs, etc. so it is easy to use that to our advantage. Sometimes too easy depending on how naive the person is. Fe/Ni is an interesting combination for that. Sure it won't work EVERY time but when it works it REALLY works...

...which is why I'm baffled that ENTPs are known as/considered the best "trolls" and ENFJs aren't even considered? *shrugs*


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## Katie Tran (Apr 8, 2017)

Robert2928 said:


> @*Alassea Telrunya*
> I beat my friends think similar when I seem like a "nice guy" but I am trolling someone so hard. IT's not even where ENFJs try to manipulate however we do know the "game" when it comes to social values, social beliefs, etc. so it is easy to use that to our advantage. Sometimes too easy depending on how naive the person is. Fe/Ni is an interesting combination for that. Sure it won't work EVERY time but when it works it REALLY works...
> 
> ...which is why I'm baffled that ENTPs are known as/considered the best "trolls" and ENFJs aren't even considered? *shrugs*


Yeah exactly so stay away from me. 
I can see through ya'll's shit. *holds up fist, dagger, sword, crossbow, gun, tank and bomb*


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## Robert2928 (Apr 6, 2012)

Alassea Telrunya said:


> Yeah exactly so stay away from me.
> I can see through ya'll's shit. *holds up fist, dagger, sword, crossbow, gun, tank and bomb*


I want to stay away but then how would I show my support for our ENFP overlords lol Honestly it's more fun when people see through it. Like a game of cat and mouse. Well in my opinion anyway.


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## Katie Tran (Apr 8, 2017)

Robert2928 said:


> I want to stay away but then how would I show my support for our ENFP overlords lol Honestly it's more fun when people see through it. Like a game of cat and mouse. Well in my opinion anyway.


No, I agree. Can't you see I'm luring you in by playing hard to get? 
A game of cat and mouse is always thrilling.


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## Robert2928 (Apr 6, 2012)

Alassea Telrunya said:


> No, I agree. Can't you see I'm luring you in by playing hard to get?
> A game of cat and mouse is always thrilling.


Unless you are the mouse and you are running for dear life lmao The real question is who is the cat and who is the mouse?


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## Katie Tran (Apr 8, 2017)

Robert2928 said:


> Unless you are the mouse and you are running for dear life lmao The real question is who is the cat and who is the mouse?


I don't mind playing the mouse running for her life at all. Don't you remember how cunning Jerry was with Tom?


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## Ultio (Nov 22, 2016)

Anecdotally, they are delightfully squishy. :laughing:


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## Robert2928 (Apr 6, 2012)

Alassea Telrunya said:


> I don't mind playing the mouse running for her life at all. Don't you remember how cunning Jerry was with Tom?


I always rooted for Jerry as a kid however Jerry was always trying to ruin Tom's day. Would that subtly imply you would try to ruin my day too?


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## Silastar (Mar 29, 2016)

Some ENFJs are manipulative. And often for very selfish reasons (but they themselves don't realize this).
Example - it's the new year, we celebrate some time but then the ENFJ is exhausted and calls us out on it: it's not that she is tired, but it's already 1 AM and surely most other people have gone to sleep! 

You see what she did there? She was tired but instead of telling us that she wanted to go home, she tried to make us see the environment according to her needs. This is just one example, but I think it can be fairly indicative of many ENFJs' behavior and attitude when it comes to manipulation. It's not their problem, it's someone else's. it's done through subtle nudges.

Anxious ENFJ usually are more like this than your more laid-back version. They get told their attitude is wrong and after a while they deem anxiety undesirable, hence they cover it: so their anxieties become someone else problem and most importantly, they try to hide that undesirable personality trait (in this case anxiety) without working on it. 
ENFJ should be more aware of this trait of theirs.


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