# People who need gay pride are weak



## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Again, I would like to remind the enfps, that the world is not made up of enfps. while I require no support from other people, I can understand why some people values groups and connections. take ESFJs for example. they enjoy the group setting and love to form connections and be among people who are going through similar problems. they draw support from the group and give support to the group.


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## Terezi Pyrope (Jun 30, 2015)

QuiteCharmed said:


> THANK YOU
> I always appreciate blunt, to the point posts like this
> 
> And you're right,
> ...


Usually the people who are very involved in gay pride are young, so that might have something to do with it. Young people generally have lower self esteem and are more insecure. But what I don't understand is the implication that just because someone is weak that they do not deserve respect._ All_ human beings deserve respect, unless their actions denote otherwise. Some do need gay pride in order to feel safe, that is not because they are cowards unworthy of respect but because they require support from others in order to feel accepted in an unaccepting community. And who are you to take that away from people?


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## QuiteCharmed (Oct 10, 2014)

Terezi Pyrope said:


> Usually the people who are very involved in gay pride are young, so that might have something to do with it. Young people generally have lower self esteem and are more insecure. But what I don't understand is the implication that just because someone is weak that they do not deserve respect._All_ human beings deserve respect, unless their actions denote otherwise. Some do need gay pride in order to feel safe, that is not because they are cowards unworthy of respect but because they require support from others in order to feel accepted in an unaccepting community. And who are you to take that away from people?


Maybe they deserve respect, but their actions do not. 
I pity them to an extent. However, anyone who is reliant on a collective group for a sense of self-worth, seriously needs to re-evaluate their life.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

QuiteCharmed said:


> Maybe they deserve respect, but their actions do not.
> I pity them to an extent. However, anyone who is reliant on a collective group for a sense of self-worth, seriously needs to re-evaluate their life.


no one is asking u to pity them. they just want to be left alone thank you.


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

I tend not to see this as a binary (strong vs weak) necessarily, because growth is always personal and occurs across time. I know some others have expressed similar ideas, I'm just tossing in shared experience.

Would I call someone weak if they have been beaten and bloodied to the point of broken limbs if they cannot currently walk under their own power? No. Maybe once they heal and strengthen, if they continue to rely on others to carry them around, I will see them as acting in a weak fashion and if they persist, I might see weakness as a mark of their character. But it depends on context and situation and what exactly we're discussing.

I think identification with a group is sometimes the necessary first stage for a particular individual to change their life. I remember feeling a lot of shame over my own identifications growing up, as I was in an environment where I had no support, no one understood me, no one would have had anything positive to say about me, and my culture just dumped a lot of broad negging on my identification. I pretty much felt damned and shamed and worthless because on some level I bought into that messaging and I had nothing in me or outside of me to tell me otherwise.

When I finally met others who had the same self-perceptions as I did, and I realized they were okay, it helped me to accept myself. I hated the fact I needed that kind of support to have my outlook change, but I have to admit it was formative. And attending group functions and identifying that way in the initial part of my shift gave me a category (kind of like a cast around a broken limb) where I could heal and strengthen to prepare for the rest of my life. And most people who are in situations like that, from what I've observed, benefit from at least a temporary identification.

But I tend not to understand all the EXCITEMENT of these continual external events and identifications. I admit I'm not much for groups anyway. I like to do things under my own power; I don't typically identify with groups; I don't wear a group badge, I'd rather just wear my own, as a source of pride. (To me, it's about as alien as getting all worked up about a favorite sports team. Why? If that team wins or loses, what does that have to do with any of the fans? They weren't the one playing the game.) I just don't fathom group associates very well on some intrinsic level, I guess. I can take them or leave them, they don't affect who I am inside.

I don't think being willing to accept a label is a bad thing, or helping others in a particular group context; but I do see pride as something that has to filter into each individual, live INSIDE of them, rather than being bequeathed by some external source. Inside, pride and acceptance will continue to burn; but if you never bring it inside at some point, once the external light is taken away or extinguished, you're left alone in the dark with nothing to sustain you.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

some people seek identity through groups (Fe), where as some seek through individuality (Fi).

if they arent harming anyone, and seem to be happy with their lives, LEAVE THEM ALONE!


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

It's always been one of my firm opinions that anyone who "needs" to belong to a "group" is weak in spirit & mind. I only respect those who can have pride in themselves without the need to derive the pride from belonging to a group, especially one that is supposedly not a choice.


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## Terezi Pyrope (Jun 30, 2015)

QuiteCharmed said:


> Maybe they deserve respect, but their actions do not.
> I pity them to an extent. However, anyone who is reliant on a collective group for a sense of self-worth, seriously needs to re-evaluate their life.


Why is that? People mature with age, and with maturity comes self esteem amongst other things. Some people need support, not everyone is a self sufficient independent machine. I personally hate relying on other people for things, but I need to. Some need emotional support, others need intellectual support, and so on and so forth. Nobody should be shamed for this, it's just human nature.


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## QuiteCharmed (Oct 10, 2014)

Terezi Pyrope said:


> Why is that? People mature with age, and with maturity comes self esteem amongst other things. Some people need support, not everyone is a self sufficient independent machine. I personally hate relying on other people for things, but I need to. Some need emotional support, others need intellectual support, and so on and so forth. Nobody should be shamed for this, it's just human nature.


It's alright to rely on others. Whenever I'm going through a difficult time, it's always nice to have friends who I can vent to. I enjoy having others around for a number of reasons. Nevertheless, there comes a point when such a reliance is taken too far. It can even cause others to feel as if you're _using_ them primarily for your own benefit. It's ok to find strength from others, but don't allow yourself to cling to them like a helpless child.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Terezi Pyrope said:


> Why is that? People mature with age, and with maturity comes self esteem amongst other things. Some people need support, not everyone is a self sufficient independent machine. I personally hate relying on other people for things, but I need to. Some need emotional support, others need intellectual support, and so on and so forth. Nobody should be shamed for this, it's just human nature.


its weird tbh. the ENFPs i know are all super emotional, and require tons of emotional support. they pretty much cry about everything (like literally cry). being around them drains me so much its not even funny because each time they go on their emo trips, it make me worry. and here they are saying they are emotionally independent. lol


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## Terezi Pyrope (Jun 30, 2015)

QuiteCharmed said:


> It's alright to rely on others. Whenever I'm going through a difficult time, it's always nice to have friends who I can vent to. I enjoy having others around for a number of reasons. Nevertheless, there comes a point when such a reliance is taken too far. It can even cause others to feel as if you're _using_ them primarily for your own benefit. It's ok to find strength from others, but don't allow yourself to cling to them like a helpless child.


The difference between needing gay pride and being a "helpless child" comes from the fact that those who need gay pride help others who need it too. They all support each other. It's not a give-take relationship, because everyone contributes. There is strength in the LGBT community that comes from being able to relate to a feeling of being rejected or being outcasts.


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## QuiteCharmed (Oct 10, 2014)

johnson.han.3 said:


> its weird tbh. the ENFPs i know are all super emotional, and require tons of emotional support. they pretty much cry about everything (like literally cry). being around them drains me so much its not even funny because each time they go on their emo trips, it make me worry. and here they are saying they are emotionally independent. lol


We're the ones being emotional? Umm, look at yourself XD


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

johnson.han.3 said:


> its weird tbh. the ENFPs i know are all super emotional, and require tons of emotional support. they pretty much cry about everything. being around them drains me so much its not even funny because each time they go on their emo trips, it make me worry. and here they are saying they are emotionally independent. lol


lol I hate that stereotype. Fi is a very individualistic function and Fi combined with Te brings a great deal of backbone and conviction to mature ENFPs. the ENFPs you know are like that because they are troubled teens who would be emotional anyway.


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## Terezi Pyrope (Jun 30, 2015)

johnson.han.3 said:


> its weird tbh. the ENFPs i know are all super emotional, and require tons of emotional support. they pretty much cry about everything (like literally cry). being around them drains me so much its not even funny because each time they go on their emo trips, it make me worry. and here they are saying they are emotionally independent. lol


I think ENFP's want to be viewed as highly independent but are anything but. I don't know many ENFP's and I'm not close friends with any so it's hard for me to say much about them. I am aware that they are highly emotional though.


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## QuiteCharmed (Oct 10, 2014)

Terezi Pyrope said:


> I think ENFP's want to be viewed as highly independent but are anything but. I don't know many ENFP's and I'm not close friends with any so it's hard for me to say much about them. I am aware that they are highly emotional though.


"I don't know anything about ENFPs, which is why I'm going to make generalizations about ENFPs."


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

QuiteCharmed said:


> We're the ones being emotional? Umm, look at yourself XD
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 352690


im not very emotional, but i react to other people's emotions. so when other people become emotional, i too feel it.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

QuiteCharmed said:


> "I don't know anything about ENFPs, which is why I'm going to make generalizations about ENFPs."


I do not know about other people, but im going to say they are all weak because they rely on a group


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## Terezi Pyrope (Jun 30, 2015)

QuiteCharmed said:


> "I don't know anything about ENFPs, which is why I'm going to make generalizations about ENFPs."


I didn't make generalizations. I stated observations that many others have also observed. I don't have much personal experience with ENFP's, hence why my response was short. My intention was not to offend, I apologize.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

Terezi Pyrope said:


> I didn't make generalizations. I stated observations that many others have also observed. I don't have much personal experience with ENFP's, hence why my response was short. My intention was not to offend, I apologize.


your observation is very true. i have had personal interaction with ENFPs.they really want to be seen as independent, and if you ask them, they will say yea i am independent. they do not realize how much they draw from other people. their independence is more like not wanting be told what to do. if they are aware of it, they will not rely on others. for example, an ENFP kid will refuse the help of their parents because they feel if they owe their parents anything, then their parents will have something on them. however if they are unaware, or if they feel the other person wouldn't use the help as a form of control, then they will have no problem taking.

basically they do not want to be controlled, but they are needy


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## Momentz (Nov 26, 2013)

As an ISFJ, have you considered getting a tattoo that says "ENFP" purely for empathic reasons? Perhaps the lack of support that apparently leads us to search for constant support will bleed into and break your back. If that happened, maybe you yourself would get the support you highly crave as an ISFJ - from the hospital workers and the body cast. Would they point out how you'd cry?


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## Terezi Pyrope (Jun 30, 2015)

Alright, I feel as if we are all getting rather off-topic here. The original topic was a discussion on whether or not people were weak for needing gay pride. I understand that there is a lot of tension between types, but can't we just embrace our differences and get along? No need to turn hostile against each other. (I'm a goddamn hippie, I know).


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## Momentz (Nov 26, 2013)

My bad, I was just making an observation. Especially the part about the broken back, because that's what people will give you if you keep making dumbass posts. (Directed at johnson.han.3, ofc)



Terezi Pyrope said:


> Alright, I feel as if we are all getting rather off-topic here. The original topic was a discussion on whether or not people were weak for needing gay pride. I understand that there is a lot of tension between types, but can't we just embrace our differences and get along? No need to turn hostile against each other. (I'm a goddamn hippie, I know).


Aight. I'm out. But I'll keep tabs on this thread, wouldn't want to miss anything.










(P.S., nice Homestuck avi)


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

oracular.ostrich said:


> As an ISFJ, have you considered getting a tattoo that says "ENFP" purely for empathic reasons? Perhaps the lack of support that apparently leads us to search for constant support will bleed into and break your back. If that happened, maybe you yourself would get the support you highly crave as an ISFJ - from the hospital workers and the body cast. Would they point out how you'd cry?


oh, i cry because im sad, or other people are sad.

i work with people who has emotion issues, and really enjoy dealing with people and their emotional problems. my point isnt to put enfp down. it was to state that they are not emotionally independent as they think they are. they just do not realize they are draining other people emotionally.

i didnt really want to make it about ENFPs because i know it will be taken the wrong way. i certainly do not want a group of very angry enfps. however i do like to use real life examples, so bare with me on this.

i do not have anything against ENFPs. i am only against self centered biased world views.


the thing you have to understand about ISFJs is they we tend to care too much about other people. when someone is being very emotional, we not only feel their feelings but we have to help that person in every way possible. we also get very worried.


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## Terezi Pyrope (Jun 30, 2015)

oracular.ostrich said:


> (P.S., nice Homestuck avi)


Why thank you, always nice to find other homestucks, especially in a rather unexpected place like this. (Terezi is my waifu, tbh)


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## Momentz (Nov 26, 2013)

johnson.han.3 said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dearie, I'm not angry in the least. Really amused and ask you never dial back on the hilarity. And how many "ENFP's" do you know? All of them? Because I know for a fact that not all of them have emotional issues and even the ones that do aren't usually going to be so vocal about.
If you work with people who have emotional issues, isn't it only natural that all of the ENFPs you meet through your line of work will have some?
I appreciate your perspective though, even if totally wrong. :kitteh:
That being said, don't want to derail this thread for any longer with shit I don't want to continue with anyways. Someone else can pick it up from here lol.


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

oracular.ostrich said:


> Dearie, I'm not angry in the least. Really amused and ask you never dial back on the hilarity. And how many "ENFP's" do you know? All of them? Because I know for a fact that not all of them have emotional issues and even the ones that do aren't usually going to be so vocal about.
> If you work with people who have emotional issues, isn't it only natural that all of the ENFPs you meet through your line of work will have some?
> I appreciate your perspective though, even if totally wrong. :kitteh:
> That being said, don't want to derail this thread for any longer with shit I don't want to continue with anyways. Someone else can pick it up from here lol.


how do you know you are an enfp? o.o you might be wrong in how you typed yourself. INFPs are not very vocal, and they tend to be more reserved. enfp do not have emotional issues, they are just very emotionally expressive. being Fi, they tend to express it anytime and where. it can be positive or negative. its not all negative

i have dealt with ESFP, ISFP, INFP, ENFP. there is a huge difference between Is and Es.


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## Momentz (Nov 26, 2013)

johnson.han.3 said:


> * *
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, might want to hold back on the whole typing someone at first glance method. But be my guest and tell me exactly what type I am. Are your "observations" based on "evidence" that was conducted for just as long?
Trust me though, INFPs know when to be vocal.
And so do... Hmm? Most people? Regardless of type?
But go ahead and bring something insignificant up because you have no other real argument.

About Fi: you're wrong. It varies from person to person. Some Fi users? They're like that. Others wouldn't be caught dead being emotional. Even the ones the fall into the former won't really be anywhere near as outwardly emotional as they are inwardly just because of the nature of Fi. You're also wrong on the "not caring how it affects others" part; yeah Fi is centered on the self but again it depends on the person and their specific values. You wouldn't know because you don't use it, so your error is totes k.
And didn't you just contradict yourself with saying INFPs aren't vocal but then in the next sentence saying Fi expresses its emotions all the time?


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## General Lee Awesome (Sep 28, 2014)

oracular.ostrich said:


> Yeah, might want to hold back on the whole typing someone at first glance method. But be my guest and tell me exactly what type I am. Are your "observations" based on "evidence" that was conducted for just as long?
> Trust me though, INFPs know when to be vocal.
> And so do... Hmm? Most people? Regardless of type?
> But go ahead and bring something insignificant up because you have no other real argument.
> ...


again, im not talking about Fi users, just those who express Fi in such manner. for example an ISTJ uses Fi, but the last thing you see is them being emotional. 

self centered doesnt not equate selfish, but they can have bias view points. 

take ESFP for example, they do care a lot about people and they are very friendly. however, they do express their negative emotions quite openly, where an Fe user would not. Introverts tends to think more before they express how they feel, so with ISFPS, i found that they usually curb their emotions in consideration of others. this is why a lot of INFP and ISFP are mistaken for ISFJs

also, im not typing you. merely giving you things I have observed between ExFp and IxFPs. they can both be very outgoing especially at a younger age. so its very possible to consider yourself extroverted by society standards. . functions affect how your process information, rather than how "outgoing" someone is.

i actually ment to say ExFP in my previous post, however, I didnt want to further antagonize ENFP and replace it with "a very emotional person". and everything I mentioned is relative. I was comparing the difference between Ixfp and Exfp. not saying that Ixfp are not vocal, but just less compare to their E counter parts xD.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

johnson.han.3 said:


> your observation is very true. i have had personal interaction with ENFPs.they really want to be seen as independent, and if you ask them, they will say yea i am independent. they do not realize how much they draw from other people. their independence is more like not wanting be told what to do. if they are aware of it, they will not rely on others. for example, an ENFP kid will refuse the help of their parents because they feel if they owe their parents anything, then their parents will have something on them. however if they are unaware, or if they feel the other person wouldn't use the help as a form of control, then they will have no problem taking.
> basically they do not want to be controlled, but they are needy


once again, do not confuse dramatic lil ENFP teeny boppers with mature ENFPs.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> once again, do not confuse dramatic lil ENFP teeny boppers with mature ENFPs.


which do you consider yourself? How old are you?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> which do you consider yourself? How old are you?


I'm 23, so somewhere in the middle. there is no shortage of dramatic flair to my personality, but neither is there a shortage of backbone (admittedly, the latter was probably accelerated by circumstance, for which I am grateful).


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I completely agree with this.

I am not gay, but technically, I am disabled. I have to take 50-60 medications a day just in order to survive. This comes along with a complex eating schedule, workouts to counter it, etc. On top of that, I speak in a whisper. So everywhere I go, people ask me (usually with friendly intent, sometimes with mocking intent) "What's wrong with your voice?" And they make assumptions. "Been smoking too much?" Nope, never smoked. "Were you singing wrong?" Nope, I was trained and singing just perfectly but I was a singer and Lyme goes to where there is the most blood flow. "But, my cousin had Lyme and she got better in 2 weeks. Have you seen a doctor? Have you tried drinking tea?" "Maybe God is punishing you..." I swear, every day. Cashiers, waiters, people on the street.. I endure this anywhere I go. And unlike people with illnesses that are actually recognized by the government, I have a lot of trouble getting (or keeping) a job, and there is no legal protection for me. Nobody will hire someone who sounds like they're suffering from contagious laryngitis, who has chronic insomnia, sometimes muscle and joint pains, can be cognitively confused, needs to miss work for months at a time due to ailments out of their control, etc.

So, what did I do? Well, I won't bore you with my financial solutions over the years and how I have compensated. But in terms of my sense of purpose and identity - I sang lead through my whisper and named my band as a symbol of reclaiming what I had lost. I proudly tell people that I sang lead through my whisper, wrote songs around it, etc. My whispery-singing voice comes and goes, and often times I can't even use the very few notes I still have, but I record at home and do what I can to work around it and capture the songs I write in my own voice. This way I have made something out of my struggle. So, I do not call myself disabled. I call myself a phoenix. My disability - and triumph - speaks for itself. I do not need 'disabled pride.' I have pride in my triumph.

I know that not all disabled people can overcome the exact same way I did. Not all disabilities are created equal. Not all Lyme people have access to the medications I have. Etc. I can compare myself to others and admit that others may have it worse, and others may have it better. But all I can say is, I took what happened to me and made something of it, and that is what I take pride in. I am also thankful that these losses made me stronger, though I would prefer not to have to have lost my voice at all or depend on expensive and complex medication. So I can relate to the idea of being proud of who _you_ are and what _you_ , personally, have done to overcome your strife. That is how I form my sense of identity too. And I do that myself - though other people may join my band, or contributed money or help to my projects, or supported my purpose in various ways all of which I am grateful for (including moral support and empathy, and even harsh criticism)..... I take charge and make it move forward. That is my identity. 

My disability is something that I share with a larger group, but I don't go to support groups and meetings with other disabled/chronically ill people. I do take it upon myself to inform people about Lyme as much as I can on facebook and through other means, because it is often misdiagnosed, and it is a political illness, which involves oppression that people don't even realize they are victims of. And due to the awareness I have raised, several people have figured out that they have Lyme, when doctors denied it. I receive messages from 'friends' and strangers fairly often on facebook saying things like: "thanks to you talking about this issue, I realized my cousin has Lyme, and now she is getting the treatment she needs, and she might have died otherwise" etc. So I do stand for my cause and try to educate people, but I _do not _seek support or identity status, or make excuses for myself on behalf of it. (Though some excuses are real, like I don't want to socialize in a crowded place because I cannot be heard, etc.) Meetings and groups do nothing for me. While it is nice to know they might understand that aspect of me, the people who truly understand me are the ones who have taken what they had and made the most of it, and have tried to use their experience to help others.

All in all, I am not proud to be chronically ill. I am proud to be a phoenix. People of all walks of life can be a phoenix. One does not have to be disabled, gay, coloured, poor or enslaved to rise from the ashes and make the most out of their life. All one has to do to be a phoenix, is rise to the challenges they meet, and make the most out of their life.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

This whole fucking site is a support network. We are people trying to figure out how to be people. We take "pride", or identity, or community, or friendship from this site and the personality stuff.

facebook is a support network for many people.

church is a support network for many people.

School, AA, sports, friends. People find identity in what they find identity in.

Not for me to say what does or does not work for others. Not for me to say.

Once upon a time I drank a lot of alcohol. One day I quit. 

Later I had reason to go to a bunch of AA meetings to support a friend. AA is not for me, but it sure the fuck helps others figure out how to get sober and clean, and far be it for me to say someone is a piece of shit because something different for them.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'm 23, so somewhere in the middle. there is no shortage of dramatic flair to my personality, but neither is there a shortage of backbone (admittedly, the latter was probably accelerated by circumstance, for which I am grateful).


from my point of view, I was barely cognitive at 12, hit puberty somewhere after that, and was a teenager until 20.

so, you are 3 years from being a teenager.

I'm 28 years from being a teenager. 

And you're "somewhere in the middle?"

Heads up in your face appeal to Te.


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## Slagasauras (Jun 26, 2013)

I don't know, I mean, can we look at this evolutionarily? I wonder if our ancestors would cling to those that were like them in order to feel self validation. I would imagine obvious things would be food and protection, as well as sex. 
Anyways, I don't see the problem with it and personally don't partake in it because I'm a die-hard introvert.

---
EDIT:
Also, I really don't see the oddity with finding a group you relate to? I mean, wouldn't this whole site be a big flop if we assume it is wrong to find a group you identify with?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

drmiller100 said:


> from my point of view, I was barely cognitive at 12, hit puberty somewhere after that, and was a teenager until 20.
> so, you are 3 years from being a teenager.
> I'm 28 years from being a teenager.
> And you're "somewhere in the middle?"
> Heads up in your face appeal to Te.


I'm not sure I get your point. if you're trying to tell me I'm not extremely mature (which I would agree with), that only adds to my point, because the difference is going to be even more stark between an even more mature ENFP vs most of the ones comprising most of his observations


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Slagasauras said:


> I don't know, I mean, can we look at this evolutionarily? I wonder if our ancestors would cling to those that were like them in order to feel self validation. I would imagine obvious things would be food and protection, as well as sex.
> Anyways, I don't see the problem with it and personally don't partake in it because I'm a die-hard introvert.
> 
> ---
> ...


like most in the thread, you missed my point by several miles


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## Slagasauras (Jun 26, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> like most in the thread, you missed my point by several miles


I don't understand how? You didn't exactly explain how someone is weak for needing a group system?

I'm curious, what started this thread? It's fine if you don't want to answer that.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

drmiller100 said:


> This whole fucking site is a support network. We are people trying to figure out how to be people. We take "pride", or identity, or community, or friendship from this site and the personality stuff.
> 
> facebook is a support network for many people.
> 
> ...


Someone can seek support without taking pride in victimhood.

Perc is a great example. Some people take pride in being fucked up because they are "type X' and type X is fucked up in this particular way. Others use their typing awareness to try to improve themselves, or guide others to find themselves. The former is self-victimization and weakness, the latter is supportive and strong.


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> like most in the thread, you missed my point by several miles
> 
> 
> 
> _So this whole thread you are just trolling and insulting people for _being part of a group they identify with?*needing to cling to a group identity in order to not feel like shit about themselves*


and you stated it so plainly......


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Night Huntress said:


> Right. I realize.* What a colossal waste of time*, attempting to talk about the basic principles of respect to someone who has been immune to it, by their own admission, for a period of several years on end.


I'm glad we agree on something. for future reference, I suggest reading through the comments to avoid beating the same dead horse 20+ people have already tried to resuscitate. makes both our lives easier


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## ecstasy (Nov 5, 2012)

@Swordsman of Mana: Ignore all the criticism and empty arguments. You just said what many people think, but don't have the guts to share with others.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

ecstasy said:


> @_Swordsman of Mana_: Ignore all the criticism and empty arguments. You just said what many people think, but don't have the guts to share with others.


I wouldn't call a mild annoyance at all the floweryness and lisping thinking those people are weak.
It sounds animeish.
Did I mention that cartoons are a way to escape reality?
Ergo making people weak?
Probably said it somewhere.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

aef8234 said:


> I wouldn't call a mild annoyance at all the floweryness and lisping thinking those people are weak.
> It sounds animeish.
> Did I mention that cartoons are a way to escape reality?


So are movies, TV shows, novels, short stories, video games, dreaming, sleeping, meditation, maturbation, vacations, and so on.......



> Ergo making people weak?
> Probably said it somewhere.


Well havin an essential *need* to be mentally dependent on others is a sign that one lacks self dependency, mentally that is. You can call it weak, heck you can try and do a judo twist and call it strong, but the fact stands that a person who needs others for validation & strength tends to lack deriving the same sort of validation & strength from their self without the use of others.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

What a weird thread  

weak - a completely subjective judgment that is completely dependent on a context perceived that resides within any said such point in time - time moves - life changes - weakness is no exception. 

What a weird thread


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

The Incandescent Abyss said:


> So are movies, TV shows, novels, short stories, video games, dreaming, sleeping, meditation, maturbation, vacations, and so on.......











Don't you dare blame uhh... animu-chan?





> Well havin an essential *need* to be mentally dependent on others is a sign that one lacks self dependency, mentally that is. You can call it weak, heck you can try and do a judo twist and call it strong, but the fact stands that a person who needs others for validation & strength tends to lack deriving the same sort of validation & strength from their self without the use of others.


 Did you read what you wrote? It goes in circles, and doesn't really hold much point.


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## Deus Absconditus (Feb 27, 2011)

aef8234 said:


> Don't you dare blame uhh... animu-chan?
> 
> 
> 
> Did you read what you wrote? It goes in circles, and doesn't really hold much point.


The point is that whatever you call it, whether it's strong or weak/blue or gray, it is still the thing that @Swordsman of Mana is pointing out, which is that people who need others for validation & strength tend to lack thtose qualities within themselves which is what he classifies as weak. Technically not having inner strength, no matter how someone tries to twist is, is still a form of weakness within the inner self.

If I misunderstood your point, then I'm sorry about that.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)




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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> they should .


so THAT's what this thread is about. Ugh ... Look at the mess you made! :tongue: 

I think other people are in charge of what they should or should not do. I'm quite certain you would be lashing out if other people imposed their reality onto you and insisted you should be, not be, do or don't do etc ... 

You're such a contrarian thinker  

I get it. It's a passion.


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## petite libellule (Jul 4, 2012)

Btw. Have you ever read radical honesty? I think you'd like it. I haven't read it in some years but this thread reminds me of the book. Strangely. But not surprisingly.


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## EternalFrost (Jan 12, 2013)

Cool. I'm weak and you don't respect me. Thank your for telling me exactly what I needed to hear. You've changed my life dramatically. 

*throws my rainbow wristband in the trash* 

I'm a strong, independent **** now just like you.


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