# Dating older women



## carlaviii (Jul 25, 2012)

UtterMess said:


> This might be a weird question. But can someone tell me how to stop being attracted to older women? :frustrating:


Focus on how lame it is to be able to sing along with even the most obscure 80's pop songs? :laughing:

It's not any weirder than being a foot fetishist, or turned on by genital piercings, or bondage... well, it's less weird than some fetishes, let's admit. Why stop? Be discreet, be brave, be yourself.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

UtterMess said:


> This might be a weird question. But can someone tell me how to stop being attracted to older women?


I don't think you can. Attraction is attraction, it's not really a conscious decision.

You just need to find out if you want to act on it - that _is_ a conscious decision. Hugely depends on your (and the woman's) expectations re: a relationship. But if you're on the same page, why not?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

UtterMess said:


> This might be a weird question. But can someone tell me how to stop being attracted to older women? :frustrating:


Why is it a problem?


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## Crimson Ash (May 16, 2012)

carlaviii said:


> Focus on how lame it is to be able to sing along with even the most obscure 80's pop songs? :laughing:
> 
> It's not any weirder than being a foot fetishist, or turned on by genital piercings, or bondage... well, it's less weird than some fetishes, let's admit. Why stop? Be discreet, be brave, be yourself.



Easier said than done madam. I'm not in any position to offer the things that women that age would receive from suitors in their age group. Of course I do understand that for the most part that is all relative to the individual but still. One can feel quite inadequate when entertaining those thoughts. 

To be honest ever since I was about 7, (I believe that's when I developed an attraction towards women) I've always been attracted to women a few years older. Maximum difference I think was 10 years?

I wasn't really considering it to be weird rather only the question. I have no problem if that's just the way I roll.
I guess it's just hard sometimes or maybe even all the time. :laughing:





FallingSlowly said:


> I don't think you can. Attraction is attraction, it's not really a conscious decision.
> 
> You just need to find out if you want to act on it - that _is_ a conscious decision. Hugely depends on your (and the woman's) expectations re: a relationship. But if you're on the same page, why not?


I know. It was quite the silly question to ask. I was just pondering it a few hours ago. To be frank I have been attracted to women closer to my age but then something related to personality or intellect has always found a way of turning me off.

Perhaps I am simply searching for a level of emotional and intellectual maturity that is quite rare amongst younger women.


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## carlaviii (Jul 25, 2012)

UtterMess said:


> Easier said than done madam. I'm not in any position to offer the things that women that age would receive from suitors in their age group. Of course I do understand that for the most part that is all relative to the individual but still. One can feel quite inadequate when entertaining those thoughts.


I'd say don't try to compete with older men when pursuing older women -- easier said than done, true, but then again even among women your own age there's going to be some competition from older men. 



> To be honest ever since I was about 7, (I believe that's when I developed an attraction towards women) I've always been attracted to women a few years older. Maximum difference I think was 10 years?


I'm sure you've heard this before, but 10 years isn't that much really. Well, it still is when you're 20, but that fades out as you get older. 



> Perhaps I am simply searching for a level of emotional and intellectual maturity that is quite rare amongst younger women.


That seems to be a recurring problem for NFs, from what I've seen...


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

UtterMess said:


> I'm not in any position to offer the things that women that age would receive from suitors in their age group. Of course I do understand that for the most part that is all relative to the individual but still.


Whilst this might be true in some cases, it might not be in others (you already said it yourself). Apart from that, this logic also applies to women in your own age group. To some, you might be able to offer exactly what they're looking for, regardless of age differences.

I never had a serious relationship with a man who was a lot younger than me. I'm late 30s now, and I've been in a serious monogamous relationship for 8 years, so at the time I was still dating, the man would have had to be something like early 20s to be considered "much younger". I admit that back then, I never met one in that age group I would have considered for a relationship (for sex alone - completely different subject ). That doesn't mean though that person didn't exist, or that I would have had a general problem entering into a relationship with a much younger man - I just didn't meet him.

Today, I still get quite a bit attention from men who are considerably younger. If I was available, I would know quite well which ones I'd consider "relationship material" (sounds horrible). And I'd say they _do_ exist, and it wouldn't be a problem for me.

Of course, there are a lot of things you need to consider if the woman is older (what about having children for instance?), but it's not like they're always that clear cut with a partner of your own age either.


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## Diphenhydramine (Apr 9, 2010)

I have always been attracted to older women and I have no idea why, I can't even elucidate the reason. I have slept with a few of them and have found generally they are better in bed. That's just an aside. I'm not sure I could "date" one though. Two reasons.

Firstly, at some point our relationship will become public, and there would be a lot of negative responses. I can't deal with that kind of judgment.

Secondly, there is just too big of a gap. Take someone who is 30, if I was 20 (I'm 22.) They have between 50% and 66% more life experiences than me. There's a real big "life" gap there that I think would cause some negative reactions. Or not - but I think it would make me uncomfortable.

A lot of the things I think would be problematic are just exaggerated forms of problems I would have in 'ordinary' relationships, I guess, so I won't include them here, but it just wouldn't work.


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## LoveAshley (Mar 31, 2013)

I think it could work if the two of you are on similar wavelengths. Most women over 25 prefer men who are more mature than your average college age kid and also men who have their act together (a job, reliable transportation, not living with parents) are preferred. So if that's you and you think she likes you then I say go for it.


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## Crimson Ash (May 16, 2012)

FallingSlowly said:


> Of course, there are a lot of things you need to consider if the woman is older (what about having children for instance?), but it's not like they're always that clear cut with a partner of your own age either.


This is exactly why I get all manner of dishearten when I even consider pursuing them. Similar life goals and expectancies I would stress is vital for it to work. I've had a little bit of experience with this scenario and its just not going to work if the expectations don't match up.

Also I ponder if the seriousness of the relationship will play a part. For all I can know the woman in question might just see it as a short term situation while I'm considering it to be long term.

Then of course there is the stigma associated with it. I know this is a progressive world and all and in the current age its not looked at the same way. The both of us may not have any issue with it but if a lot of other people are judgmental about the situation it doesn't help the health of the relationship. Especially if the judgements are coming from close family and friends, after some time those poisonous thoughts do end up effecting both parties at some point. 

Again I must stress though its all relative to the individuals in question. Still I must admit these are valid concerns that are always troubling me.

Thank you for the input regardless. I think I may just need to change my outlook on life and relationships. Instead of looking towards the older woman who I know might suit me on an emotional, intellectual and physical level perhaps I just need to recenter my focus altogether.

Who knows maybe there are younger women who feign an age appropriate behaviour just so that they will be accepted by men their age while in reality their maturity is far higher than their peers.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

carlaviii said:


> he's going to leave a hell of a scar when he goes.


:sad:, not all scars are bad. they add experience to our spirit (corny, but who fuckin' cares ). 

------

i'm also attracted to older women. i don't think it necessarily has to go anywhere, beyond the experience both people can get out of it--but if it does, then great. 

i'm not really sure that i can offer anyone anything beyond my time and my presence currently, and am actually willing to just allow them to do the same (and maybe even be a life-teacher of sorts, just through the experience). in that sense, i think that everyone has something to offer. 

the most recent crush: i went to a psychic festival yesterday, and my tarot reader just had the greatest energy i've ever felt. all i could do was stare and smile and laugh. they're all a very... different group, and soon (i have a feeling), we'll all be hanging out! even if it doesn't go anywhere, i'd just really enjoy the chance of being in her presence, soaking it up--plus, again, that group of people have a quality that i think i've been looking for. 

beyond the very vague "i like her energy", i can't really say why i'm so attracted to her (she's not even that much older--maybe 7 years, to my nearly 25?). it's like she's so odd but doesn't care: she was telling me to just have fun, and asked if i've thought about doing anything new/would make me uncomfortable while staring at me in a mirror held sideways between us. i told her about being a stand-in for a nude figure drawing class, and she was like, "DO IT! NOW--just go for it! anything and everything, take it!", with her quirky-ass smile... 

i find her physically attractive, don't get me wrong, but i think it's her demeanor/attitude/"energy" that leaves me like, "... uh, ok... :blushed:... :kitteh:".


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## INF Jay (Oct 19, 2012)

I have much to respond to within these posts, but I have work soon so I will keep this short and just give an update for now.

I met her, had drinks, and hung out until it was very late. I found her to be incredibly attractive. Physically -- bombshell. The parts of me that respond to the physical were lit up, she was hot. Mentally, spiritually even, quieted and a little more wise than my years. She laughed with sincerity at some of the things I said, and my intuition tells me it was due to the youth in my words. I can only speculate, though, but I feel that 'youth' to be the precipice of something higher up, of a lingering hope for novelty in the world. She has grown accustomed to the way of her world, so accustomed as to become accepting. She seemed very resentful of Philadelphia, and generalized the attitude of its inhabitants as being morose and banal. There is nothing new for her there, and I am sad for her in that way. Yet here I was, suburb boy with a veneer of wonder and happiness to coat the entire city. It was a shock to her I would suppose, and although she almost bailed on me (she texted me saying she was stuck at work, but I was already down the city) we were engaged in meaningful conversation. 

I could have kissed her, but didn't. I never know when things are right, despite her repeatedly hugging me when I walked her home. How lame am I? I suppose I will see her again, but I consider that in the back of her mind, we are at very different points of our lives, despite mental connection. She wants to know me, maybe love me, but at some point, I think she believes that it would be painful to do so. So perhaps I will end it here.


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## atomica7000 (Sep 8, 2013)

As I said earlier, I'm dating a much younger guy going on 2 years now. Actually I've almost always dated younger guys except once I dated a guy who was 10 years older. I've never cared about age. I like a guy who can make me laugh and isn't emotionally needy. I can take care of myself when it comes to most things: money, security, etc. but what I can't provide myself is companionship. I don't bring mind games or bullshit to a relationship. I honestly just want to hang out and enjoy life.

My younger ENTJ bf couldn't care less what people think. I'm sure it helps that I'm hot and still get carded lol. We love to play video games, watch movies, talk, walk, all the typical stuff. We learn a lot from each other. We are both respectful of the other needing to prioritize other things (i.e. work and school), and just enjoy the time we have. It's honestly the best relationship I've been in.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

@UtterMess
I totally understand. I'm the first one to stress how important a similar outlook on life is, common goals and expectations.

I still say however that this can be the case with anyone you meet, regardless of age. And call me hopeless: If it does, you'll know, and you probably won't give a shit about age, or other circumstances for that matter. So I don't think you need to change anything about your outlook - it sounds fine to me 

* *





I knew within a very short time that my current partner was "the one", in a way I didn't know with any other partner before. Age wouldn't have bothered me one bit - if he'd been 20, it would have been totally fine, assuming he'd had the same attitude and outlook. A lot of guys in their early 20s don't have that, and that's understandable. If they do however, then that's exactly the point - age is really just a number then. I was always a bit of an old soul myself, so I have no reason to doubt there are similar men out there who are very mature very early on.

I also didn't care what other people or society thought (and that _did_ play a part in our relationship, because there was one of those "stigmata" attached to it as well, it just wasn't an age gap). It's our life, and I don't need to justify the way I live or feel to anyone. I know from experience it's not easy though, and of course you sometimes wonder how some people can be so small-minded, and why they can't just let other people be happy without trying to sabotage it. One could probably psychologically analyse that type of behaviour until the cows come home.
If anything, it seriously showed me who my friends were, and who I didn't want and need in my life...


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

It's funny, I've never considered age as much of a push or pull in my life. My wife was the same age. My girlfriend afterward was 3 or 4 years younger than myself. My girlfriend after that was 9 years older than myself. I've "had feelings for" people (in order):

- My age
- My age
- My age
- My age
- a few years younger
- a few years older
- 9 years older
- a few years younger
- 13 to 14 years older

I did originally put a cap date on my OKCupid profile (several years ago), but it was like "youngest: 21, oldest: 50" lol. (I was around 25 to 27 then?)

After a stint with an immature, younger ENFP, I decided to put a minimal cap on age of 25 or so. In retrospect that's unnecessary, as everyone matures differently, but that's simply been my historical mentality.

Dating someone 9 years older than me hasn't felt any different than it would if she was my age. If she was a different type of person, however, the differences may be more prominent--I don't know. The things I start to question when dating older women:

- Will she lose her sex drive before me? (Moderate problem to me)
- Is she interested in me due to a psychological problem, e.g. being "a mother" to me? (Huge problem to me; I hate being mothered)
- Will she die earlier than me? (Not really a problem)
- What will others think about me? (Minor problem at best, but I can't deny the question exists)
- What will others think about her? (While minor, I see this as more of a problem than people thinking about me)

Ultimately it is about _connection_ though. I have personally never had a "true connection" to someone, so finding someone who is much younger or much older than myself, but actually has _even the potential_ to connect on this level, is very exciting. I was talking to my 9-year-older-ex yesterday, and said, "I would rather have 15 failed _passionately connected_ relationships in my life than I would a single, 'successful' relationship where we both just 'settle' for each other."

There is a lot of irony in that, as she didn't really understand lol.


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## Snow (Oct 19, 2010)

atomica7000 said:


> As I said earlier, I'm dating a much younger guy going on 2 years now. Actually I've almost always dated younger guys except once I dated a guy who was 10 years older. *I've never cared about age.* I like a guy who can make me laugh and* isn't emotionally needy.* I can take care of myself when it comes to most things: money, security, etc. but what I can't provide myself is companionship. * I don't bring mind games or bullshit to a relationship. I honestly just want to hang out and enjoy life.*
> 
> My younger ENTJ bf couldn't care less what people think. I'm sure it helps that I'm hot and still get carded lol. We love to play video games, watch movies, talk, walk, all the typical stuff. *We learn a lot from each other. * *We are both respectful of the other needing to prioritize other things (i.e. work and school), and just enjoy the time we have.* It's honestly the best relationship I've been in.


^^ this is all what matters, and what one really needs. Also, I forgot to add, I'm in a phase of my life where I've realized "I need to let loose and have fun, stop trying to define life in some idealistic or 'controlled' manner"; if I date an older women and things don't work out, I need to have _connected with her_, _grown from her_, and _enjoyed my life_ during that period of time. No extra expectations need exist! No matter _what_ happens this way, I will have won: I connected, grew, and had fun!


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

carlaviii said:


> Focus on how lame it is to be able to sing along with even the most obscure 80's pop songs? :laughing:







... sorry, got carried away. :blushed:


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## INF Jay (Oct 19, 2012)

@Revenant thanks for your post. 

I've had two real connections in my life: one girl developed an acute schizophrenia and doctors said she was one of the most severe cases they had seen. Thus: I am a psychology major. The other died in a car accident. I don't say it for the "ermagerrrd I'm so depressed", it is simply fact of my life. 

Just a strange thought before I go to work, then I'll come home and reply to much more:

I've had much death in my life. Such is my fate. To paraphrase a quote by Dostoevsky, "My greatest fear is not being worthy of my suffering" indeed, I agree with him, and again: that deep hearts have great sadness on earth. 

And so, "Will she die earlier than me" has much relevance. 

As such, in an odd singular way I want a relationship with an older woman, because I couldn't bear the thought of dying before someone I love, and having them have to suffer my own death. (we rationalize...and then rationalize our rationalizations). But then again I am not my defense mechanisms, I don't live for my rationalizations. Just for the meanings I propose. This is just one reason that lingers. 

way too deep, wtf where did that come from...I'm going to work.


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## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

I'd say that age is only an issue if you let it be and that boils down to maturity. A few of the concerns voiced in this thread are not necessarily related to age at all.

For example, fear of the surroundings judging the relationship. Do you choose to care what judgemental and negative people think, or are you smart enough to see what's important and whose opinion really counts? (Hint, it's your life...) You know that there will always be people judging your choices, no matter what. If it's not age, it'll be wrong background, wrong religion, wrong personality, wrong race, wrong education - some people are more focused on finding faults & negatives than to appreciate the existence of love & positives.

Another one mentioned was children. Most mature women are smart enough to understand that they do in fact choose their future. If children is their highest priority, they will probably either be upfront about it or look for a potential father (as a man in a better suited age group) for their children. Most if us recognize that men in their 20s are not ready for fatherhood, because most of us were not ready for motherhood at that age. In addition, most of us recognize that luring someone into fatherhood does not create a base for a good relationship or a good father. 
I would also like to point out that I have two friends that are in relationships with much older men. The men are retired and not interested in having kids. The women understand this and have made the conscious choice not to have children. One of them was never interested in having kids, so an older man was the way to go. The other one is pretty much giving up on her dreams, because to her, her man is worth that.

A third one was the insecurity about experience level. This is more related to general insecurity IMO. I don't respect people based on age or experience, but based on the person they are (people generally have to earn my disrespect, not the other way around). Sure, personality and experience can be closely connected, but it is not that common I think. Ask yourself if it is a fear of being 'behind' which would put the older person in 'charge', or is it a fear of limiting your experiences by being in a relationship all together? Maybe the attraction to older women is a convenient excuse to stay out of serious relationships period? Comparable to the reason that some women seem to fall for 'bad boys'.

I have be married to a man 7 years my junior for ten years. We were dating & engaged for five years before we got married, so he was 18 and I was 25 when we met. I can tell you that I was the more concerned party. I was worried about whether the relationship was really fair to him for many reasons. I felt a deep sense of guilt until I recognized that the choice was his - he was an adult and I had to trust that he would make adult decisions. A relationship has to be built on mutual respect.
Now, 15 years after we met, no one has a problem with it and no one lifts an eyebrow about the age difference, even though it is very apparent that my husband is younger than I am. I am not as beautiful, hot, or slender as I was 15 years ago, so people we don't know may be wondering what's going on, but we really don't care. Judgmental people don't really have a place in my life.

That said, I believe that it takes special people to pull something like this off. I never tell him that he is too young or too inexperienced (because I don't believe that he is) and he never tells me that I am too old. Sure, I know that I'll start aging looks-wise much faster than he will very soon (I'm not looking forward to menopause, that's for sure!), but women's bodies change significantly after bearing/birthing children no matter what. Even if a man ends up with a younger woman, her body won't stay young an perky for the rest of her life - there needs to be more to a long-term relationship than the love for smooth skin.
As long as my husband is sexually attracted to me, I am not too worried.


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## carlaviii (Jul 25, 2012)

Jennywocky said:


> ... sorry, got carried away. :blushed:


_Loved_ "Send me an angel". But it's been remixed a bunch of times, actually, so is it really obscure?


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

@carlavii: it was to me. Somehow I missed it back in the 80s.

I guess I could have picked "I wanna be a cowboy."


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Swede said:


> Yeah, it does...



Welcome to the internet.


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## carlaviii (Jul 25, 2012)

Swede said:


> What I am trying to say is that it is hard to know what takes precedence; biology or culture. Not too many years ago, when most people were farmers, families did what needed to be done. Women (and children) may be physically weaker than men, but they worked as hard as they could planting, harvesting, protecting, etc. As a matter of fact, back in the viking days, the 'first lady' of the farm was the one in charge of all the keys. That must have been a pretty powerful position, I'm thinking.
> 
> Anyway, I guess that I'm more thinking out loud more than anything else, so please take with a pitch of salt. It would be interesting to hear what the rest of you think though.


Culture's oldest roots are in biology, IMO. The human infant needs far more care, for far longer, than any other baby in the natural world. Human males are bigger and stronger than the females. We're safest when living in groups. We've got a mild preference for monogamy, but poly is always simmering under the surface. 

And biologically speaking, there's something to be said for mating above your age range. Someone who's survived longer, is still healthy, may be socially well positioned to confer advantages on any resulting children... it works for either gender. 

The advantage still goes to the older men, since they don't have menopause, but it's a thought. 

And it doesn't hold in my case -- I'm not socially well positioned. :tongue:


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## Swede (Apr 2, 2013)

carlaviii said:


> Culture's oldest roots are in biology, IMO. The human infant needs far more care, for far longer, than any other baby in the natural world. Human males are bigger and stronger than the females. We're safest when living in groups. We've got a mild preference for monogamy, but poly is always simmering under the surface.
> 
> And biologically speaking, there's something to be said for mating above your age range. Someone who's survived longer, is still healthy, may be socially well positioned to confer advantages on any resulting children... it works for either gender.
> 
> ...


Agreed. Even though I am not sure that we were 'intended' to live past meno pause. I am guessing that the vast majority died before 45-50 just a couple of 100 years ago. (Found some info here, stating 30-40. Also speculating that average life span might go back down thanks to obesity & obesity related deceases). 

I do agree with your middle paragraph! The older person may be better prepared, but it takes a tremendous amount if energy to have kids as well. Good to have a younger parent around for that. lol


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

Repeat.


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

fourtines said:


> @_Bago_
> 
> If you think having sex with a younger man is related to the mothering instinct more than with any other man, you must not like sex very much.
> 
> ...


Ok, I will be specific. To me, I know that a younger guy will reach his sexual peak early. BUT he does not have the emotional capacity to handle an older woman's emotional needs too. (It was just something I came across recently, and I also had to deal with a situation of a younger guy myself. 36 and 30. He lied about his age being 25, and I held off for a very long time really struggling with my moral values until he came clean about his age.) Yes, by that age, with that period of time for a woman, her sexual peak may also be matching, and just as high. But obviously you and I know that it needs more than sexual chemistry alone to make a full relationship work. So, why would any woman around their 30s jeopodizses her own chances and be with someone for the sex alone? Cos it is not going to last at all. Older similar age men may feel just as bad, cos they probably think that they cannot compete with a younger man sexually, but in reverse, he would have everything on the emotional plane, and also possibly security too. Understanding as well. Based on real life experiences. FWB and these terms are not what I am used to. "Affairs" or "ONS" is what I understand, but I do not follow myself. There is no point in lingering and dragging out these kind of affairs. It sets yourself back in your own goals. Did I entered such areas myself? Yes, I did. It took another friend to drag me out emotionally from that place and I have to thank her so much for that. Really. Because it dawned on me that the guy was so wrong for me on every level. It is true... 

The mothering instinct I was talking of, was more of the emotional kind. It feels off, cos you know that you need to carry this kind of weight, than if the guy can carry this himself. Another term, that you can call it maybe is "counsellor". It is different when you are in the peer level of the other person and it feels more equal, but when the age gap is so large and that your experiences differ, then it feels like one is leading the other. 

Even if I have a nephew and who has grown into a mature young man, my relationship with him is still that same old auntie nephew feeling. I do not know about you, but there is a part of me, that understands and knows how someone make me feel. It is that kind of sympathy thing. It does not feel right. This has got nothing to do with the looks department at all. That was not what I meant, and I think you misunderstood this part. 

I understand that a lot of people have been very complimentary and comforting words to the OP as well, but I am also talking about realism here. The fairness of the situation, and the true intention of what things need to be and what it takes etc. 

I applaud the OP for being so open and asking such a question openly, but here is also my open answers too. From a real 36 year old something. Maybe we can be in denial and deny ourselves of things that we really truly want in our heart, but if we cannot get this, then we will settle for less. But sometimes, in doing so, we hurt somebody. That is the bottomline. 

I was being humble when I called myself a Nazi cos I knew it was an unwelcomed opinion, and I knew straight away, how many of this type of relationships is out there, or it exists in the US. I knew this straight away. It was not with intent to hurt anybody, but yet, I am indeed speaking about the realistic truth too. However emotionally traumatic, or unlikeable it is.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

@Bago thank you for sharing, and I am sorry you had such a hurtful experience.

However, I did not just mean looks. I meant a certain adult way about them as well. The reason why Justin Bieber puts me off is not only his baby face, but his idiotic persona...and I say he frightens me because I suspect it is all a lie. Underneath that baby face and dumb , there is not just an eighteen year old, but probably an ESFP..and it hasn't escaped my attention that he has a very hot 21 year old gf who cant seem to give him up. He's probably an animal in bed, but his childlike appearance makes it too creepy lol.

As for the auntie comments, I think you misunderstood. She did not mean it inappropriately but just that he really is physically mature and it apparently surprised her, he does look a bit older, and that is also due to the fact that he is mature also in some ways.

I find some guys his age are intellectually 30 but timid around women, where as he's less intellectual thus far but in terms of.life experience and sexuality he makes those boy geniuses look like children compared to him...you can't have every type of maturity before age twenty, obviously.

I tend to play counselor even to guys my own age, so that is not terribly different with him either. He's experienced some things I haven't and can occasionally rationally talk me down. I would also like to mention that some men are unfaithful or irresponsible even at 30 or 40.

He would also actually be the type to want children, so that is not age related. I am not even sure I want children. Most of my exes are childfree...my serious exes, and some people don't want kids ever.


But no he does not have the wisdom of a guy who is even 27 or 28. Which is why I am fighting my own impulse to be with him again..it's hard. We were involved for over a year I had to physically leave and what keeps me away even now is that I am not living with him or right next door anymore. However I should add I had to do the same to be sensible about my ex of six years, who is almost a year older than me.

Sometimes people overcome it and it works out, so it really depends on the individuals involved.

I do see your point though and thank you for explaining.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

@Swede

to take into account the human spirit, and the thought that it out-dates these human forms... :tongue:

leaving the topic of "the point/purpose" of what i'm about to say aside (as the conversation just won't ever take a track otherwise): the human spirit is malleable, and it already holds the extent of what it needs to be in this plane. so, the final shape of itself is deconstructed and manipulated back into a beginning stage, something that is ripe for the push/pull mechanics of the environment--shaping us as we move through various stages of human existence. 

since it already encompasses what it could be, all it needs is a catalyst in order to achieve progression. here, i think, is where biological factors come into play--they act to give a concrete platform, which carries certain strengths and weakness, and this comes with an initial set of inborn dynamics. 

these dynamics in themselves--early biological roles--help not only to allow for survival, and from there further spiritual progression, but aid in that same progression by creating problems and potential divides among ourselves, that "threaten" the very thing that allowed us to survive in the first place. by creating a "solution" that is doomed to fail (as we cannot be anything other than fluid in our lives and development), a tension of conflicting energies eventually develops in which we now have to merge aspects of the old ways with what was initially ignored, because it didn't yet have a place. 

we create something that cannot last from the present, based on what _is_ present (our concrete forms), allow it to run it's course, break it apart and then rebuild it with the conflicting aspects--and in doing so, we slowly integrate more and more of that initial potential into our existence. 

to get more to the point of "what came first", i think that it's: 

1) spirit

2) biology

3) archetypes; as we attempt to formulate a method of survival, we relegate all import to what is actually known to work, based off of those early times, and then pass it on

4) as the biological base that formed our earliest archetypes begin to become of less import--due to the advantageous groundwork laid _by_ that same initial base--something else rises to take it's place, at least partly, and that is/are social factors. (social factors have always been important in the ways that we've grown and changed over time, but the level of inter-connectedness between the world overall has grown, and i think this is a vital ingredient in the re-shaping of that initial base).

5) from the re-shaping: possibly a new flavor of archetypes altogether, re-integrating and changing those that were birthed from a more primitive base (biology)? 

that'd be interesting--think, a 1000 years from now, how we'll be and function and live... 

if any of that makes sense... my melatonin is kicking in, and sometimes i think i'm making a point, but everything that needed to be said was left in my head.


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## Bago (Aug 30, 2011)

fourtines said:


> @_Bago_ thank you for sharing, and I am sorry you had such a hurtful experience.
> 
> However, I did not just mean looks. I meant a certain adult way about them as well. The reason why Justin Bieber puts me off is not only his baby face, but his idiotic persona...and I say he frightens me because I suspect it is all a lie. Underneath that baby face and dumb , there is not just an eighteen year old, but probably an ESFP..and it hasn't escaped my attention that he has a very hot 21 year old gf who cant seem to give him up. He's probably an animal in bed, but his childlike appearance makes it too creepy lol.


My experience was not too hurtful, but yes, it was an experience never the less. Cos I have almost already forgotten it totally, but it was one of those situation that until I had close friends who pulled me back. I could not see the wood for the trees. Cos I was so focused on it at that time.

I do understand what you are saying. I did not want to open that area up for discussion, and I was trying my hardest to skirt around that subject area because this is still a public forum. Do you understand that? Cos to me, I still need to withhold my dignity, and my integrity too as a person also. I do not need to be frank and go into details in that specific area.

To me, Justin Bieber is exactly where he is. It is marketing, and it is why he was chosen out of so many people to be that category of celebrity. I do not care to note or to speculate into what he does behind closed doors. I do not need to know. He is not entirely how to say, wrongly chosen for that missing gap market. He is fresh-faced. Young. He sways the young girls. He is not supposed to attract the older women market, that is the point. I can understand why he is creepy to you cos he is not someone on your peer level that is why. But at the same time, acknowledge the reason why he was chosen. This is okay. Cos he is not supposed to be targetted to you or my age market. 

I find him idiotic, which is okay, cos his style and his celebrity status is not something I would actually want to know and need to know. It just goes to show that clever marketing is needed to separate him away from the other categories. As people are dressing so much more younger these days and that ties way into their 60s or 70s... I can see why Justin was chosen this way. 



> As for the auntie comments, I think you misunderstood. She did not mean it inappropriately but just that he really is physically mature and it apparently surprised her, he does look a bit older, and that is also due to the fact that he is mature also in some ways.


I understand, but I wanted to be clear and draw a boundary line. Cos it was not an area that I wanted to open up for discussion. In a way, as guys mature, you still have to remember that they are not Men. Yet.. The life experience still counts, and it does impact a person. You can often tell this apart from how they handle themselves. This is also a point of reason why clothing can indeed be important on how it represents a person and if they represent themselves well and so forth. To me, I have now seen enough photos of celebrities to see who and why and how that can be distinguished too. I used to think that people in their 30s, when I was 20 something dresses really old ?? But now, with smart dressing, even if it is NOT related to a associated job, people still dress in this formal manner, which maybe why it confuses everybody. 

I dunno about you, but the first time I entered my first job and then I changed and dressed differently, my family was not sure how to see me. Cos I was growing up. But in truth, over time, I am and I still do behave the same way. I still do this too even with my own mother. No idea why, and it is not really too necessary to speculate much. It just is. This kind of perception is important because to me, my role and my relationship does not change, just because I dress differently. In fact, I sometimes make it more of an effort to dress down when I see my family so that they know and recognise me. I do not dress too sexually overt in front of them, unless I am with my peer groups. The way I was brought up is that you "dress for the occassion". 



> I find some guys his age are intellectually 30 but timid around women, where as he's less intellectual thus far but in terms of.life experience and sexuality he makes those boy geniuses look like children compared to him...you can't have every type of maturity before age twenty, obviously.


Yes, a lot of people are intelligent, but that bears no life skills though and try to connect and be with you etc, right? They can talk the talk a lot, but can they walk the walk ? As you say, timid, why ? Where is the social skills ? It is because he cannot judge his audience well. Most people around the age of 20 try to find and push themselves and burn through their egos to come out the other side. I was the same too. I try to be more all rounder... I don't know why I had this urge to do so, but I am indeed glad that I did, cos now I see things clearer and I have my reasons and justification of my own journey. 



> I tend to play counselor even to guys my own age, so that is not terribly different with him either. He's experienced some things I haven't and can occasionally rationally talk me down. I would also like to mention that some men are unfaithful or irresponsible even at 30 or 40.


Guys are and can be unfaithful cos either not knowing what they want, or that they are too insecure in their own relationship to find the truthful answers. Just like the OP here. We should not be telling him behind closed doors and behind this girl's back to give him advice, but he should really be bold and truthful and to speak with the woman directly. This is maturity. You can only squash your own ego by going through the pain, which was the point I was trying to make before. To me, I needed to go through that experience of the younger guy to know where I was. I did not ask for him to appear in my life, but he did. I realised that he and I was world apart, 6 years, and that was because I avoided such dramas when I was younger, when all my friends were really having so much relationship problems such that it puts me off too. Plus I got confused on what I wanted. But now I am more sure of things, cos I cut out and eliminated things that I do not want from my life, which focuses it more. Which is great for me. 

The main point also was, he couldn't even protect himself. Meaning, he likes the dramas and let the other people manipulate him and cloud his judgments as well. He too was an INFP as well. He did not even trusted me.. he trusted his "friends". I saw how dangerous that was. They were not even friends with his best interest. It was also kind of my fault too for going backwards and it became this tug o war thing, which was really bad for both of us. He was indeed a bit more mature in the beginning, but I too let go now as well. So... We both had such passion in us and we focused on the wrong things. Having passion for a relationship is not the end all and be all of everything, which is the point, and to both of us, it crippled us both cos we cannot move on in our daily life. Which was absolutely crazy. 

I am seeing somebody else now, and there is a huge difference. Cos we have been through similar steps in our lives to get where we are and we both strived for it. He even knows what jokes to make etc. Sometimes I know that certain guys just tries to impress but in doing so, loses his own sense of self, but then there are those who actually grow himself, in order to be accepted and so forth. This is the thing... That kind of independence is quite precious. Cos it gives you understandings. 



> He would also actually be the type to want children, so that is not age related. I am not even sure I want children. Most of my exes are childfree...my serious exes, and some people don't want kids ever.
> 
> But no he does not have the wisdom of a guy who is even 27 or 28. Which is why I am fighting my own impulse to be with him again..it's hard. We were involved for over a year I had to physically leave and what keeps me away even now is that I am not living with him or right next door anymore. However I should add I had to do the same to be sensible about my ex of six years, who is almost a year older than me.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you know what you want. 

To me, my motto is, never to give up your life for anyone. It is always to live with and share, but not to give up for someone else. I mean, I used to think like you and I agree that different people different courses. It probably still is, but at least I now know what I want, and I now know why certain people always push onto me in a certain way. I always knew I was a baby face looking person too, but I had no idea why these people always try to guilt me of their interests etc. After I reflect on myself on what I wanted, and also read about different things. It clicked in my mind.... I am also still doing online dating, and I can see why the kind of people come forward and message me. I am absolutely brutal and screen out asap. I do not want them to mess my mind up. I did communicate before with certain people in the very beginning but there is no point in wasting each others' times etc. Cos it is time wasting really.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

I'm a cougar.


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## carlaviii (Jul 25, 2012)

Animal said:


> I'm a cougar.


_solidarity paw-high-five_

This has been such a great thread. I haven't been able to find anyplace online where I could chat about this openly. It's been such a compartmentalized part of my life that I haven't told *anybody* about -- it's a relief to say it "aloud".


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

carlaviii said:


> _solidarity paw-high-five_
> 
> This has been such a great thread. I haven't been able to find anyplace online where I could chat about this openly. It's been such a compartmentalized part of my life that I haven't told *anybody* about -- it's a relief to say it "aloud".


That's cool you found the thread then. 

For me.. well, my friends and family called me a cougar long before I did. I don't do it on purpose. I don't walk around saying "I'm on the prowl for young cute men rawr." It's just, all my life, almost anyone I've been attracted to in the slightest has been younger, and as I get older, the age gap keeps growing, to the point where the last couple guys I dated were *significantly* younger.

I have no shame about it though. I date who I date; if someone has my heart he has my life and my commitment and my soul. I feel no need to defend my choices. If someone makes rude comments I just assume they're jealous of my vibrant young hottie.


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## Cappuccino (Aug 14, 2012)

I had always been attracted to men a good deal older than me because immaturity is a huge turnoff.

I never thought I'd date anyone my own age let alone younger.. until I ended up falling head over heals for a guy 7 years younger than me. He's actually more mature than most guys I know period! So I guess age has little to do with it if you find the right person.
This guy is freaking awesome!!! I'm so crazy about him its not even funny.. I would never pass up what we have for social norms. I really don't get it when people have their own agendas in my life, what makes them care what I do? No idea, haha.. and I care less and less what people think as time goes on.


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## Animal (May 29, 2012)

Young guys can be stronger in a way. They're more willing to be vulnerable, more vibrant and sexual, more in touch with their passions and their inner animal. When I meet guys my age or older, they're ruined.. they've been divorced twice, they're cynical, they've forgotten their childhood dreams.

I've been traumatized beyond belief, survived chronic illness, recovered from drug problems and had more experience and losses and traumas and beatings than any 20 people should... and I am still youthful and vibrant. I'm 32, and people think I'm faking when I show my ID... people peg me at 19, 20. I don't wear makeup or heels; I'm totally natural, and I attribute my youthfulness to my mindset as well as my elvin heritage. : )

I am drawn like a magnet to people who are as alive as I am, and most of them are a lot younger. If I met someone my age, who'd been through a lot, but still understood how to be so carnal that he's spiritual, stayed in touch with his dreams and was motivated to make shit happen, was so alive and in touch with his inner child, inner animal, spirit and passions that we could speak the same language without talking, I would be so shocked and amazed that I might never let him go.


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## Crimson Ash (May 16, 2012)

This thread...


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## Jennywocky (Aug 7, 2009)

Animal said:


> Young guys can be stronger in a way. They're more willing to be vulnerable, more vibrant and sexual, more in touch with their passions and their inner animal. When I meet guys my age or older, they're ruined.. they've been divorced twice, they're cynical, they've forgotten their childhood dreams.


Yeah, I have the same kind of response to many men my age and older... even when they're only 2-3 years old, often they seem like they are in my parents' generation and not mine. They also have some of those same sensibilities and seem more closed off or not in touch with themselves.



> I've been traumatized beyond belief, survived chronic illness, recovered from drug problems and had more experience and losses and traumas and beatings than any 20 people should... and I am still youthful and vibrant. I'm 32, and people think I'm faking when I show my ID... people peg me at 19, 20. I don't wear makeup or heels; I'm totally natural, and I attribute my youthfulness to my mindset as well as my elvin heritage. : )


Usually I get pegged as about 15 years younger than I am too, and it's all about that timelessness despite the sorts of crap I've had to deal with in my life. However, sometimes all those experiences (as well as working to keep a long marriage afloat and raising kids) sometimes does introduce a gap with younger guys, if they have never been in a marriage or raised kids. It's just a weird place to be.



> I am drawn like a magnet to people who are as alive as I am, and most of them are a lot younger. If I met someone my age, who'd been through a lot, but still understood how to be so carnal that he's spiritual, stayed in touch with his dreams and was motivated to make shit happen, was so alive and in touch with his inner child, inner animal, spirit and passions that we could speak the same language without talking, I would be so shocked and amazed that I might never let him go.


I resonate with that.


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## qingdom (Apr 5, 2011)

My co-worker has one of these magnets on her cubicle. Seems fitting here. Thought I'd share. =)


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## carlaviii (Jul 25, 2012)

Animal said:


> Young guys can be stronger in a way. They're more willing to be vulnerable, more vibrant and sexual, more in touch with their passions and their inner animal. When I meet guys my age or older, they're ruined.. they've been divorced twice, they're cynical, they've forgotten their childhood dreams.


Vulnerable and _curious_ -- and I don't know how much of that is age and how much is generation gap. I can't imagine a guy in his 20s calling himself bi-curious or pansexual, back in the day. The words _didn't exist_. 



> I've been traumatized beyond belief, survived chronic illness, recovered from drug problems and had more experience and losses and traumas and beatings than any 20 people should... and I am still youthful and vibrant. I'm 32, and people think I'm faking when I show my ID... people peg me at 19, 20. I don't wear makeup or heels; I'm totally natural, and I attribute my youthfulness to my mindset as well as my elvin heritage. : )


My life has been relatively easy, for all my complaining, and I've got nothing but respect for people like you. It's only recently that I've found my confidence and gotten past my depression and started to feel... alive? I feel better now than I did 20 years ago, that's for sure. 

Segue into...My birthday was about a month ago, and when I got teased for not mentioning it and told J my age, he gave me one of those blank looks. Followed by the "you seriously don't look it" and "you color your hair?" and some other questions that were starting to worry me. 

But then he asked me to let the grey grow out and _complained a little_ about how I don't even have crow's-feet yet. ;

I've got a noticeable sprinkling of grey and the beginnings of a streak, under the hair color. Is that attractive?


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Meeting him now for the first time in months. Standing in the barrio waiting for the vato.


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## Vic (Dec 4, 2010)

Older used to be that I was 21 and she was 26. The last older woman I was with was 35 when I was 29. I regularly meet women in their 40s who are attractive physically, mentally. Their confidence and certainty drives me nuts in the best way.


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## FallingSlowly (Jul 1, 2013)

Honestly, we should have this "ancient and still getting asked for ID"-club here...
I'm closer to 40 than 30 (and not even _remotely_ under 25 - that's when you run risk of being asked when you try to buy alcohol here). But since it's not just men trying to ID me, I'm just assuming they all should've gone to Specsavers and enjoy it while it lasts :tongue:

In all seriousness though: I agree that it probably has a lot to do with confidence (as in: knowing who you are and being happy with it), being passionate about things and showing it, and keeping your curiosity.

I haven't went through as much as @_Animal_ but I think that I have my 20s to thank for being the person I am today -- in a good way, as horrendous as I found things back then. Wrong job choice to start with, death of a partner and a parent, then a totally stupid marriage/divorce. It changed something in me though, I think especially the deaths. I thought: "That could happen to you any time, and you enjoyed so little about your life so far." Over a decade later, and I'm still working in the Performing Arts and flip the bird to all these people who always thought that's a "hobby" (especially since I'm now also earning more than most of them, ha! Hasn't always been so though; it was really, really hard at the start).

I think confidence and happiness always show and make you more attractive. Not sure if they make you look younger, but certainly more radiant (for lack of better word). I can't really say I ever had massive problems getting male attention, but it hasn't diminished despite my age - and that's something I honestly wouldn't have expected, especially not from younger men (and I wouldn't care about age if I was available). Okay, the field I work in is probably more emotionally charged than some others. People (have to) open up quicker, have to make themselves vulnerable, so it's a lot easier to get below the surface in a way. But it has its own problems...

I'm rambling. However, I need to put in a word for the "older" men now (and by that, indirectly one for the younger girls): 
My SO is two years older than me, and he is neither bitter, nor cynical, nor has he forgotten his dreams, despite ample shitty life experiences of his own. You're either defeated by them, or they help you to grow. It has nothing to do with age, but all with mindset. No one should be the judge of that but you and your partner. Which brings this thread full circle


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## Uncouth Angel (Nov 26, 2011)

I personally love older women. They're usually smarter, more confident, more experienced, and have a better understanding of themselves and what they want than younger women. Supposedly, the attention a girl receives peaks when she turns 21 or so. Having had a negative relationship with a girl of this age, I found it quite refreshing to date a few older women. It could just be me, but the two older women I spent time with were much more sexual as well, which was refreshing for me. Both were eccentric, spiritual, and easy going as well. My ex had some serious physiological issues involving her medication which more or less made her anorgasmic and caused her to resent me immensely. 

The first was 6 years older than me, which I supposed isn't much of a difference. I was 25 and she was 31. She had played the field, and while she had great sympathy for my situation (my girlfriend broke up with me 9 months earlier) she had no desire to rush into anything serious. Unfortunately for me, I didn't know what "serious" meant, and my attachment tends to increase after I have sex with someone for the first time. The chemistry between us was excellent, but she didn't want to commit, and ended up with someone else. I was hurt, but unlike my ex, she was actually sorry about hurting me, and we're good friends today.

The next woman I sought as a rebound of sorts from the lady above was a self-described 'cougar' who was 43 (I was 26--this was a few months later). She was a witch (she told me had been one in every life), and cultural creative who worked a Renaissance fairs and gave tours of Lizzy Borden's Bed & Beakfast. She was very tolerant, open-minded, and good listener. She told me she liked younger men because her interests generally gravitated toward things they liked as well--like video games. Unfortunately, I had plenty of issues of my own to work out at the time, so I was rather confused, vulnerable, and somewhat half-assed about the way in which I handled the situation. Fortunately, she understood. I knew from the start that our fling didn't have much in the way of long term potential, so a part of me felt ill at ease from the beginning, but looking back, I don't regret it at all. I'm still friends with her, too. Years later, though, she told me that she came to loathe the term 'cougar'.


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## Crimson Ash (May 16, 2012)

So I figured I would use my virtual necromancy powers and unearth this thread from the grave. A lot of good and solid discussion took place here amidst all the strife and I was hoping to do so again.

So almost 3 years has gone by since I last posted here and my experience and thinking still remains the same. I continue to be drawn in by older women and similarly feel repelled by younger ones. The more I experience life the more I realize that I simply find it incredibly difficult to find emotional and intellectual matches who are of the same age or younger.

Yet I still face the same two conundrums. I ponder the thought of how relatable I would find a potential partner, especially if the age gap is a lot greater. Also the thought of relationship expectations continue to haunt me, especially considering my past experiences. I am still not in a stable enough place to even be remotely able to start a family. Nor do I think I want to for at least the next 5 years, especially considering the current global climate.

I guess only time will tell if I am able to find someone like that. I know the older I get the less the age gap becomes relevant. Still it kind of sucks that this is the case.

Regardless these are just my thoughts on the matter. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


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## Roman Empire (Oct 22, 2014)

To me life is very nuanced. Everything and everyone has different things to offer. If you are an optimist like myself, you can find the silverlining in most things.

There's something sexy about 18 years olds, there's something sexy about 35 year olds. Being young and fresh, and older and experienced both can be sexy. I feel bad for the people having to pick one over another because they are so inflexible in their taste and view on things.


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## .17485 (Jan 12, 2011)

I would like dating older women. I find them interesting to talk to. A few older women have mentioned me being mature for my life. Or maybe it's because I sometimes watch milf and mature porn lol.


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