# Traits which are over-attributed to 3s



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

since the one I made for 6s is going well, let's make one for 3s as well
1) *Self Absorbed:* 3 is actually one of the _least_ self absorbed types on the Enneagram. they would do with a healthy dose of self focus to bring them out of the mindset of "I am what I do. I need to accomplish or I am nothing". 
*applies more to:* 2s, 4s and 7s, Sx doms in general 

2) *Hubris:* at their core, 3s are a competency type. pride requires 
a) an extremely high sense of _intrinsic_ self worth 
and
b) an overestimation of one's abilities based on this high sense of self worth
....3s are severely lacking on _both_ accounts. in fact, they are a very careful, often _anxious_ personality (especially Sp 3) who suffers from a pathological sense of "I'm not good enough". additionally, pride tends to come with strong feelings of entitlement. again, this is the opposite of the heart of what 3s are actually about. they believe that you reap what you sew (or, more poignantly, "you are worth what you sew")
*applies more to:* 2s, 7s, 8s (and, to a lesser extent, cp6s and Sexual 1s)

3) *Blatant Deceit:* deceit is the vice of 3, but 9/10 of it is unconscious. overt deceit is an extremely *risky* tactic and is one which the more careful 3 would rather use sparingly. Self Preservation 7 and Sexual 2 are the true overt deceivers of the Enneagram (the former being more the con artist and the latter the rake/seductress)
*applies more to:* 2s (especially Sx 2s) and 7s (especially Sp 7s)

4) *Open Bragging:* similar to the second point, overt bragging is not only risky, it is _extremely stupid_ for anyone wishing to build or preserve their reputation. for the most part, 3s say what others want them to say (and/or whatever will get them respect) and avoid that manner of dick slinging like the plague. 
*applies more to:* Sx 4s, cp6s, 7s and 8s (and occasionally 2s)

5) *Success:* everyone would agree that 3 is a success oriented type, the problem is when they say everyone who is success oriented is 3 (or at least 3 fixed/wing 3) or that the only reason why anyone would want to become successful is for the sake of impressing others. granted, I think it's equally absurd when people claim "all types care about success" (which is a trite, non-answer. I think we can all agree that not a lot of 9s or Social 4s are very ambitious), but there are _plenty_ of reasons why one might want success
to list a few examples:
*1s:* "I am the only one who knows what's best, so I need to be the authority"
*Social 2:* "if I am successful, people will love me"
*Sexual 4:* "success is the best revenge"
*counter-phobic 6:* "if I am successful, I won't have to take shit from anyone"
*7:* "if I am successful I can do whatever I want"
*8:* "if I am successful, no no one can control me"


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## FakeLefty (Aug 19, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> 2) *Hubris:* at their core, 3s are a competency type. pride requires
> a) an extremely high sense of _intrinsic_ self worth
> and
> b) an overestimation of one's abilities based on this high sense of self worth
> ...


TRUTH :laughing:


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## Telepathis Goosus (Mar 28, 2015)

Well said.


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## Blindspots (Jan 27, 2014)

Thank you for this thread and the one about 6's. For pointing out oversimplifications of 3's being success-oriented and self-absorbed; other types can be these, though for different reasons and through different dynamics.

Does this mean 9 will be next? It looks like there are lots of overattributions to the relational triad.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Thymic said:


> Thank you for this thread and the one about 6's. For pointing out oversimplifications of 3's being success-oriented and self-absorbed; other types can be these, though for different reasons and through different dynamics.


I'm not just claiming that other types can be self-absorbed, but that 3s _aren't even self-absorbed in the first place_. 3s are _others_-centric and _action_-centric 



> Does this mean 9 will be next? It looks like there are lots of overattributions to the relational triad.


I haven't noticed an extreme amount of misinformation about 9s, I was thinking of doing 1s next.


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## FourLeafCloafer (Aug 5, 2014)

Wow, you really don't like sevens, do you :laughing:?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

stultum said:


> Wow, you really don't like sevens, do you :laughing:?


depends on the subtype
*Sexual 7s:* 9/10 adorable, charming, sexy, fun, great conversationalists. <3 Sexual 7s 
*Self Preservation 7s:* 6/10 can be cool, hardworking, cunning and charismatic, but often duplicitous and conniving 
*Social 7s:* 0/10 hippie-ish, "armchair advocate", anti-wealth, anti-hedonism, attempt to project their existential sense of guilt onto others. I despise this subtype 

if you think my thoughts on 7s are mean, you should hear some of my thoughts on 2s, 4s and 5s :laughing:


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Those threads are very informative although I don't fully agree with a few points.



Swordsman of Mana said:


> *Sexual 4:* "success is the best revenge"


This, however, is extremely true. I often stated throughout my entire life:
"I'm spurning them by simply being the way I am and moving forward in spite of it"

The vengeful side of a sexual 4 translates into succeeding without compromising.
Although it fits best those with a 3 wing and more powerful fixes, a triple withdrawn's stubborn perseverance is still remarkable. Even more so given how brutal facing reality can be.


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## FourLeafCloafer (Aug 5, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> depends on the subtype
> *Sexual 7s:* 9/10 adorable, charming, sexy, fun, great conversationalists. <3 Sexual 7s
> *Self Preservation 7s:* 6/10 can be cool, hardworking, cunning and charismatic, but often duplicitous and conniving
> *Social 7s:* 0/10 hippie-ish, "armchair advocate", anti-wealth, anti-hedonism, attempt to project their existential sense of guilt onto others. I despise this subtype
> ...


Haha, I always type as So... :tongue:


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

One question:


Swordsman of Mana said:


> You are worth what you sew


,what if what you sew is not having to sew anything?Basically,what if you take pride in being naturally charming,attractive,smart,etc. and you feel the need to let's say "show off" those qualities but hate "sewing" and people who ask for it because it ruins everything that makes you feel proud of yourself?


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## Blindspots (Jan 27, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'm not just claiming that other types can be self-absorbed, but that 3s _aren't even self-absorbed in the first place_. 3s are _others_-centric and _action_-centric



Doh, it took me two explanations to get your point accurately. Sorry about that.

Then it seems the oversimplification (thus the over attribution) happens when outward manifestations are hastily taken for what really goes on in the person's head. To paraphrase, 3 _appears_ outwardly self-absorbed, spending so much energy in meeting what they perceive to be other's expectations, rather than being driven by more self-absorbed motives like other types.



> I haven't noticed an extreme amount of misinformation about 9s, I was thinking of doing 1s next.


More of an under attribution of traits to 9, then? I'm not sure about the trend here in the forum, but it seems like 9 would be considered as a core the least (unless someone else has complained that they're lazy or doormat-like) because they tend towards complacency and lack of action, compared to other types which display a more discrete dysfunction.

I still look forward to your next topic(s).


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> depends on the subtype
> *Sexual 7s:* 9/10 adorable, charming, sexy, fun, great conversationalists. <3 Sexual 7s
> *Self Preservation 7s:* 6/10 can be cool, hardworking, cunning and charismatic, but often duplicitous and conniving
> *Social 7s:* 0/10 hippie-ish, "armchair advocate", anti-wealth, anti-hedonism, attempt to project their existential sense of guilt onto others. I despise this subtype
> ...


Yeah - - I didn't think you "don't like" type 7's, but I do find your thoughts on type 7's a bit. . .off (consistently). I feel like you are only describing one type of seven (repeatedly). I feel like in your mind, all type 7's are 7w8 SX.

A type 7w6 is not likely to do any "dick slinging", we're less likely to chase success & more likely to chase our tails (especially in comparison to the 7w8), I also don't find type 7's very deceitful (_especially_ not more than a type 3!).

We might embellish a story for dramatic flair, or think we're better at something than we are. . .but none of that is really all that deceitful.

Also, type 7's may like ourselves, but I find that many, many, many type 7w6 have a lot of 6-ish type doubt and anxiety about ourselves. Not as much as a type 6 (by far), but still there. Again, I think a 7w8 would more "fit the bill" there.

I just don't think much of that applied to type 7's, so much as a very specific type 7.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Living dead said:


> One question: ,what if what you sew is not having to sew anything?Basically,what if you take pride in being naturally charming,attractive,smart,etc. and you feel the need to let's say "show off" those qualities but hate "sewing" and people who ask for it because it ruins everything that makes you feel proud of yourself?


that sounds a bit more like 7 or 2 than 3.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> depends on the subtype
> 
> if you think my thoughts on 7s are mean, you should hear some of my thoughts on 2s, 4s and 5s :laughing:


I'm really waiting for you to make a new topic about 2s. I'm aware from the Seducer one that you have a very low opinion, but I want to know more. I guess I'll just have to wait my turn with this new thread series.

But I like this thread trend, it's interesting and will definitely be helpful to even those not on this site and exploring Enneagram. Thank you for starting it ^^


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

o0india0o said:


> Yeah - - I didn't think you "don't like" type 7's, but I do find your thoughts on type 7's a bit. . .off (consistently). I feel like you are only describing one type of seven (repeatedly). I feel like in your mind, all type 7's are 7w8 SX.


interesting, most people view my opinions on 7s as heavily 7w6 biased.



> A type 7w6 is not likely to do any "dick slinging", we're less likely to chase success & more likely to chase our tails (especially in comparison to the 7w8)


I associate "dick slinging" most with cp6 actually, but I do associate 7s with some degree of bravado and shameless bragging. 7s aren't out to prove anything like cp6s, but they do tend to be cocky and a bit full of themselves (though they usually don't take themselves as seriously as other arrogant types, so that helps)



> I also don't find type 7's very deceitful (_especially_ not more than a type 3!).
> We might embellish a story for dramatic flair, or think we're better at something than we are. . .but none of that is really all that deceitful.


7s are charlatans (according to Naranjo) and suffer from "instant expert syndrome" (according to Riso and Hudson). they have a tendency to speak as if they are experts when they are really lacking in competence and hard credentials. 



> Also, type 7's may like ourselves, but I find that many, many, many type 7w6 have a lot of 6-ish type doubt and anxiety about ourselves. Not as much as a type 6 (by far), but still there. Again, I think a 7w8 would more "fit the bill" there.


you've probably been looking at some of my older posts where what I thought was 7 was likely 8w7 or Sexual 2. 7w6 anxiety is very "hamster wheel-y" (think Robin Williams)




> I just don't think much of that applied to type 7's, so much as a very specific type 7.


given my very different opinions on Sx, Sp and So 7s, I'd say it's at least based on three types of 7s lol


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## galactic collision (May 1, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> *Social 7s:* 0/10 hippie-ish, "armchair advocate", anti-wealth, anti-hedonism, attempt to project their existential sense of guilt onto others. I despise this subtype


if it's gonna be like that, don't worry; i'm sure none of us like you much either


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

alittlebear said:


> I'm really waiting for you to make a new topic about 2s. I'm aware from the Seducer one that you have a very low opinion, but I want to know more. I guess I'll just have to wait my turn with this new thread series.


my views on 2s are kind of a mixed bag actually. there are a lot of traits I really like about 2s (they are assertive, extremely charismatic, sexy, good at getting what they want) and I'm quick to defend them from the doormat, Good Samaritan-y martyr stereotype they're painted with. however, I am also quick to use words like "manipulative", "emotionally predatory", "drama queen(/king)", "gold digger", even "anti intellectual". unhealthy Sexual 2s in particular are cool as hell, but they're also like what you would get if you took the worst of 8s and made them more emotional, socially aware, slutty and duplicitous (not that the sluttiness bothers me. I find that part refreshing, which could probably be gleaned from reading my comment history :laughing: ). Social 2 is my favorite though, all the charisma, intensity and charm of 2, but with more authority, ambition and competence


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

justforthespark said:


> if it's gonna be like that, don't worry; i'm sure none of us like you much either


most of them think I'm an evil capitalist pig and want me to get crushed under a waterfall of gold :laughing:


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

@Swordsman of Mana

I'm not trying to attack your understanding of the Enneagram, or dog your thoughts. 

Your writings are simply confusing me, Ha Ha. :laughing:

You constantly make me question my type.

Anyways, 7w8 "dick sling", 7w6 are not as likely to do so (for the record). & I don't usually run into "dick slinging" type 6's. Why are we even using this term? (lol)

Type 7's in general can be "shameless", but it's mostly because whatever we think, comes out of our mouth (there is not much of a sensor);; so (especially) for 7w6, we're not _*trying*_ to toot our own horn - - it just might happen when our genuine thoughts tumble out of our mouths. Most of the type 7w6 I know are not cocky on any level - - they tend to be quite anxious and questioning (though with bursts of rebelliousness).

I thought there was a long rant on this forum about how Naranjo was full of crap? (lol) Not that it matters. But most type 7's resent the "charlatan" label;; again, we speak without thinking (and may have confidence in ourselves), but it's not an outright trying to fool others. I have seen this with 7w8 (especially when it makes business sense), but not much (if ever) with a 7w6.

I don't know who these people are who see your portrayal of type 7 as more 6-winger, but they be cray cray. Your idea of type 7 (comes across) as believing type 7's are very:

- Brash
- Confident
- Aggressive
- Hedonistic
- Cocky
- Shameless Bragging

We both agree that Robin Williams is a 7w6. . . but the thing is, I would not use _any_ of the attributes you have ascribed to type 7, to describe Robin Williams (o.k. maybe a few - - but most of them come across as much too type 8-ish).

Also, on your "How To Seduce Types" forum thread (which I did enjoy), you mentioned that most of the type 7's are quite hedonistic _except_ SO-doms, but SP-doms are not usually very hedonistic (in the traditional sense) - - especially when they are 7w6. We may like our experiences, but we're not likely to be having tons of casual sex, drinking, partying, etc. . . again -to me- that really depicts more of a 7w8.

Not trying to argue with you, just trying to give you some insight into type 6-wingers (from a 6-wing perspective). I respect your opinion greatly.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

@Swordsman of Mana,you usually seem to be talking about 2w3 and some combination of so and sx,what do you think about 2w1 sp/so,for example?


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