# Almost split evenly ENTJ + ENFJ - Is that even possible?



## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

Leo Argent said:


> Is there something I'm missing here? Is there some nuance about P vs. J or N vs. S that I'm not aware of? This is frustrating - but also interesting. So thank you to everyone who has contributed!


To be honest, dichotomies suck. I get INTP in the MBTI tests and I'm not a Ti dom, so it's normal that your type probably hasn't been shown in those tests, because the N/S dichotomy has a clear N bias, like if you're an intelligent Si or Se type you will score as intuitive, and J/P is shit because it isn't really related to any function and causes lots of issues to introverts. 

I recommend to read about the functions, as they're the basis of cognitive types. For starting you could check the definitions that appear here : Socionics - the16types.info - Lenore Thomson's MBTI Wiki Explanation of Functions

Anyway, I warn you that this may seem confusing at first, but later you will see that all the information will click.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

Hahha, I'm about to throw a monkey wrench in here, and put something totally opposite to what the above people have stated: INFJ. 
I think you're too focused to be an Ne dom, and too intuitive to be an S. Besides, a lot of what I'm reading sounds Ni to me. I find a lot of male INFJs can be very Ti, very logical and analytical on the inside, because the feeling side is mostly external. 

I'm hearing a lot of internal logic, and living according to values, and other people's feelings being important, so I would say Ti/Fe, or Fe/Ti. ENTP.... mayyyybe but, no offense to the ENTPs, but you sound to focused to be an Ne dom. Maybe INTP as a secondary possibility. IXXPs can seem J like sometimes because the dominant function is a judging function.


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Blue Flare
Thank you very much for the link! That should provide me with lots of valuable research material. You're right that the quizzes are often horribly biased. My guess is that the writers just don't know how other types think and therefore give the "other" types the cruddy answers. Usually they seem to like N and J. Different tests seem to be biased for E or I, T or F. (As in making F look illogical/foolish or making T look jerkish.) Thanks again! I'm sure learning more deeply about the functions will help a lot!


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@dulcinea 
Yeah that is quite the monkey wrench hahaha! Still, that may not be entirely off base. I have tested as an infj before in those free online tests and one of my best friends is convinced that I'm an infj! I certainly have the infj perfectionism, love of figuring people out, etc. I'm also extremely focused and driven. So you're right about that too. If male infjs are the most logical F types, then that may be a possibility. The main trouble is the introversion. I love debate and I even won a national championship! I also love acting, being in the limelight, etc. I also tend to take the lead role in everything by default without even trying. To me that sounds extroverted. Am I misunderstanding how I and E work?

One reason why I assumed I'm an NT is that NFs make a lot of sense to me but still seem like an "other" - as if the NF mind rhymes with my own but is still distinct from me. Does that make sense?

Anyway thanks for your input! I appreciate it 

Actually, I just had a thought. Since I have been on here, people have typed me as an ENTJ, ESTJ, ENTP, INTJ, and now INFJ. I wonder, would it be more efficient to rule out types and figure this out via the process of elimination?

Also someone suggested that I go through another questionnaire to give more insights. Those are awfully long but may be useful. What say you? Have ye the patience for it? (Lapses into Elizabethan English entertain me.)


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

As far as the introvert vs. extrovert thing: the difference between introverts and extroverts is that introverts are a little more preoccupied with their internal worlds than the external world. They think before doing, but an introvert can engage as much in the external world as an extrovert. We just get tired faster, doing it, and eventually the mind will snap back to the internal.


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## Solired (Sep 12, 2012)

Whatever you are, you're not dominant with Fe, so that means not ENFJ.


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@dulcinea

You may have inadvertently brought up another monkey wrench: I vs. E.

Pro I:
I spend a lot of time in my own head and part of the reason for my boldness in public is just simply not caring about what strangers and passerby see or think. Of course, once I start talking to someone, I care very much what they think and how they feel. I'm perfectly comfortable being alone for prolonged periods of time. If the external world is boring, then I just switch to my internal world (which is never boring). My interests also tend to be very geeky (sci fi, medieval fantasy, even anime). I don't see the point behind loud, obnoxious parties and I prefer one-on-one conversations. Nothing beats a long, deep one-on-one conversation with someone who understands my ideas and can participate in a meaningful back-and-forth. Most extroverts are baffled by my complete lack of interest in the loud and chaotic environments they enjoy.

Pro E:
I'm very talkative, I feel compelled to share everything I learn with someone, and I gain massive amounts of energy from social interaction. Every time I spend time with people, it seems like the date/party/etc. ends far too soon. I love acting up on stage in front of as many people as possible - their facial expressions and reactions are so exciting! I love that look on their face when my acting really impacts them! The court-room is even more fun! I have the jury as an audiance, the judge as an audience, my witnesses as team-mates, and the opposing attorney as my opponent! It's performance and competition mixed together: absolutely the perfect environment! Most introverts are baffled by my confidence in public.

I'm still assimilating the information @Blue Flare gave me. Your input is quite valuable and I'm beginning to understand the differences between Ni and Ne, Fi and Fe, Ti and Te, etc. Still, I want to understand the framework more fully before I give an opinion about myself regarding those labels. It's very interesting!

@Solired

Thanks! I'm still learning about what all the introverted/extroverted versions of the functions mean, but ruling out ENFJ is certainly progress!


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Here, see if this chart helps:

INFORMATION-ACCESSING PROCESSES—Perception

Se Extraverted Sensing: Experiencing the immediate context; taking action in the physical world; noticing changes and opportunities for action; accumulating experiences; scanning for visible reactions and relevant data; recognizing "what is." Noticing what was available, trying on different items, and seeing how they look.

Si Introverted Sensing: Reviewing past experiences; "what is" evoking "what was"; seeking detailed information and links to what is known; recalling stored impressions; accumulating data; recognizing the way things have always been. Remembering the last time you wore a particular item or the last time you were at a similar event—maybe even remembering how you felt then.

Ne Extraverted iNtuiting: Interpreting situations and relationships; picking up meanings and interconnections; being drawn to change "what is" for "what could possibly be"; noticing what is not said and threads of meaning emerging across multiple contexts. Noticing the possible meanings of what you might wear: "Wearing this might communicate…"

Ni Introverted iNtuiting: Foreseeing implications and likely effects without external data; realizing "what will be"; conceptualizing new ways of seeing things; envisioning transformations; getting an image of profound meaning or far-reaching symbols. Envisioning yourself in an outfit or maybe envisioning yourself being a certain way.

ORGANIZING-EVALUATING PROCESSES—Judgment

Te Extraverted Thinking: Segmenting; organizing for efficiency; systematizing; applying logic; structuring; checking for consequences; monitoring for standards or specifications being met; setting boundaries, guidelines, and parameters; deciding if something is working or not. Sorting out different colors and styles; thinking about the consequences, as in "Since I have to stand all day…"

Ti Introverted Thinking: Analyzing; categorizing; evaluating according to principles and whether something fits the framework or model; figuring out the principles on which something works; checking for inconsistencies; clarifying definitions to get more precision. Analyzing your options using principles like comfort or "Red is a power color."

Fe Extraverted Feeling: Connecting; considering others and the group-organizing to meet their needs and honor their values and feelings; maintaining societal, organizational, or group values; adjusting to and accommodating others; deciding if something is appropriate or acceptable to others. Considering what would be appropriate for the situation: "One should or shouldn't wear…" or "People will think…"

Fi Introverted Feeling: Valuing; considering importance and worth; reviewing for incongruity; evaluating something based on the truths on which it is based; clarifying values to achieve accord; deciding if something is of significance and worth standing up for. Evaluating whether you like an outfit or not: "This outfit suits me and feels right."

Then, look up the type at the bottom: The 16 Type Patterns

Those descriptions really helped me understand the different functions much better. Still trying to commit it to memory.


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

OK from my conversations with people here, I think I'm probably an Extrovert. From my studies on what @Blue Flare and @Reluctanine shared, I think I might have Fi instead of Fe. Or at least I don't have Fe as a primary function. I care very much how others feel, but it's usually more about an internal sense of "rightness" rather than a group consensus. I don't worry so much about how "the group" feels, but rather how individuals are affected by my actions. I do admit, though, that I feel responsible for making sure everyone treats each other well. But I don't think it's based on the "group feeling" mentality of Fe but more on a sense of justice. It's my job to make sure no-one gets hurt unless they really, really deserved it. Is that sense of justice Fi? I'm not sure. I also am usually described as warm and open which are Fe traits. The idea that every action is a sign of loyalty also resonates with me. There is a certain human need to act to show your values, loyalties and relationships and to have others confirm by responding. Social roles are also important to me. I guess the whole F realm is somewhat muddy to me. The T, N, and S distinctions seem to make more sense.

I use both Ti and Te a lot, though. So it's hard to say which one is more natural. For Ti, the fine-toothed distinctions, tendency to make hierarchies of categories, love of analyzing things, and tendency to easily and instantly spot logical inconsistencies are very much me! Logical inconsistencies are like dead patches in a perfect lawn - how could you not notice them? Yet Te seems to fit too. I constantly make contingency plans and flowcharts, I like to verbalize my ideas and talk them through. I also greatly prize objectivity and the Te desire to test everything, evaluating each decision as I go on my flowchart to make sure it's the optimal option. I also tend to compartmentalize and I notice tiny errors - especially in my own work. So I don't know whether Ti or Te fits better.

Ne and Ni both make a lot of sense to me. I am known for having nebulous ideas that are profound but difficult to put into words. From what I understand, that is very Ni. Yet I love brainstorming and coming up with contingency plans which could be Ne. Regardless, I personally see myself as having high N because of my tendency to constantly come up with contingency plans, play out all possible scenarios in my head, and my love of seeing connections between different ideas, events, and people. Everything in the universe is connected by a web of ideas and I don't see anything as existing as an island. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe I emphasize S without knowing it, but at least from my limited understanding at this point I definitely see myself as N.

As far as Se vs. Si goes, I'm not sure I understand the definitions. Is Se about forgetting self and focusing on the environment? Or is Se about absorbing all physical details through the senses and not missing anything? Is Si about forgetting the environment or about memories and piecing together cause and effect? I often forget about myself when interacting with others, but I often forget about the environment if I'm not interacting with anyone/anything in it. Typically, I don't even notice when it's 90+ degrees Fahrenheit outside or when it's well-nigh freezing. Sensations like hunger, thirst, or fatigue often go un-noticed as well. I often give close hugs based mostly on the fact that I want to verify that the other person and I are both really there, to feel a sense of connection since I feel very unconnected with physical reality. (And also based on a desire to show that I care.) It may sound odd and perhaps like a poor analogy, but I often get the sensation of being a formless spirit moving in a world of physical things. I also tend to forget myself and focus on my opponent in martial arts or focus on my audience when talking or public speaking. Yet when I am thinking inward and not interacting with the outside environment, it's like external and internal sensing both stop. I forget about both my own body as well as the outside world.

So for S it depends on how the definitions work. For F, it looks like either Fi or a non-dominant Fe. The T functions and N functions seem less clear since both Ts and both Ns make sense to me.

What do all of you think? Does any of that make sense? I'm still learning about this whole system.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

It does make sense! It seems like your shadow functions are pretty well developed for most of them, which might be where the confusion comes in. So, we just have to sort out how your brain works. (Haha.)

Okay, I'm going to ask you a few questions. When you read a question, I want you to try to place yourself in that scenario and immediately write down your thoughts on it. Don't filter your thoughts or feelings. It'll be even better if you can walk us through them. There's no right or wrong here. Answer one question before reading the next one.


* *




You wake up on a beach. You realise you have been shipwrecked. Do you check yourself or the surroundings first? What do you notice or want to know? What do you decide to do first?





* *




You come across a few planks from the shipwreck that have washed up on the shore. You decide to make a small boat from them. How do you sort them out?





* *




It's night time! You have the choice between a small cave, underneath your newly built boat, or in the treetops. Where do you choose? Why?





* *




There is a loud cry in the night! It sounds human! Someone is in trouble! What pops into your head or heart? What do you do? Why?


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Reluctanine

Ha! That sounds like brilliant fun! OK, onward we go!

1. My first thought would be to look around and see what my scenario is exactly. Is there wreckage nearby to salvage? Survivors that need help? Sources of food, water, shelter, weapons, communication equipment, etc? Are there ongoing threats? Then I would probably check myself for injuries. Assuming there are other people, the next step is to see if they're OK, see what talents and skills we all possess and how we can use them to get out of the scenario. Medics, farmers, boy/girl scouts, hunters, fishermen, carpenters, metalworkers, and engineers/scientists would be especially helpful. We'll conquer this. Oh, and knowing where we are geographically would be EXTREMELY helpful. So I would look for information relating to our location. That would affect how to escape the island and what language to use if we can send a distress signal. Bows and spears would be extremely helpful if there are animals to hunt or defend ourselves from. Once basic survival needs are met and we have our survival plan, we will hold the best funerals we can manage for any that did not survive.

2. Is there enough wood to make a boat? Is it enough to save everyone? The "lifeboat is too small" dilemma is NOT a problem I want to deal with. We are going to make sure everyone survives if it is at all humanly possible. If there isn't enough wood, is there wood enough on the island to make it bigger? It would be foolish to set out from the island unless we're absolutely sure it's seaworthy. Even a desert island is safer than the open ocean in a bad boat. Do we have anyone with expertise on seafaring, carpentry, or engineering? Of course, even if the boat is seaworthy, we will need other material to make the boat and stock it with supplies. If the boat is unlikely to succeed, is it possible to send some sort of electronic or fire signal? Would that be likely to get attention from passing boats or planes? If so, then the wood could also be used to build a shelter. There are a lot of possibilities for that little pile of wood! Time to get to work.

3. Are there dangerous animals on the island? Can I trust my fellow survivors (assuming there are fellow survivors)? The treetops would be safer if there are dangerous animals or people to hide from. Without dangerous animals/people, the cave option is clearly better. It shelters from the weather and if anyone saw us, they would search the obvious boat first before looking through the woods. Another reason the treetops are a bad idea is the risk of falling out of the trees. So assuming no obvious dangers, the cave-boat it is (with night-watch guards of course). We're also officially going to explore that forest in the daytime - it's bound to have useful resources! But if I'm going into an unknown forest, I'm definitely making a bow and a spear. Buddy systems are also wise.

4. Rush in with my weapons to see what happened, of course! People typically don't scream unless there is danger of some sort. If possible, I would approach from an angle that would allow me to see without being seen. That way I can judge whether this is a crisis needing combat skills or medical skills. If there is an active threat, then I kill the aggressor. If it's a wild animal, that's easy. If it's human, then that would require me to first figure out who is the aggressor. Since it was one scream instead of a series of cries, it was likely an attack instead of a fight. Still, I would determine who's the guilty party BEFORE I start impaling anyone. After all, it MIGHT not be attempted murder - it could be a misunderstanding or something. Of course, it could be a medical crisis instead of a combat crisis. After scanning the area to make sure there aren't any ongoing threats I haven't dealt with, I would approach the victim and ask them if they're OK. If they are conscious, I would try to comfort them as I tended to whatever injuries they might have. If it is beyond my skill, I would carry them (if the nature of the injuries permit it) to whoever has more medical knowledge. If the injuries prevent me from moving them, no worries. I can project my voice extremely well and no doubt everyone could hear me call for more help. If it's just emotional harm, then I would listen to their problem and comfort them however I can. Still, the primary issue is to eliminate the source of the threat (wild animal, survivor gone nuts, big gaping wound from an accident, etc.) Once the threat is neutralized and everyone's safe, I would make sure everyone knows that everything's OK. I would address whatever concerns they might have, ensure we have adequate new policies in place to prevent it from happening again, then wish everyone a good night.

Actually, this was a rather fun role-playing game! Thanks! I'm quite curious to see what you are able to glean from it!


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## 1000BugsNightSky (May 8, 2014)

The way you are approaching this question seems very Te to me.You have a problem and are trying to figure out the answer in an orderly manner. Especially how you are collecting everyone's opinions to eliminate or add different options to figure out your type. You then test each option to see if it really can be your type. 

Here is a quote from this forum (Ti Vs Te - Page 2

_Te is used heavily in empiricism, particularly in the scientific method. It's about hypothetical/deductive reasoning. This is NiTe in action. A practical application of Te would be if your flashlight was not working, and you had to decide what the problem was: light bulb is dead, or batteries are dead. You experiment to see if the flashlight's batteries really are dead, likewise with the light bulb. Once you have figured out what the problem is (the infamous Ni "ah-ha!" moment), you implement the action necessary to correct the problem: i.e. change the light bulb, or change the battery. You have made sense of the outside world via deductive reasoning, and have solved a problem, which is asking "how do I get the flashlight to work?". _

I don't see much Ne in your forum either, so if you are intuitive (your tests do show that you are intuitive), you are a Ni user. Also you say you are E, not I, and I'd have to say trust your gut on that. That's hard to tell online! Lastly, your tests show that you are J and since you do like to take charge, J would seem appropriate.

Therefore, ENTJ would work!
I also had an ENTJ vibe in your original post, but then, I'm no professional.


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Moonious

Thank you very much! As always, INTP logic is excellent! I'm noticing some fascinating patterns here. I have an instant emotional connection with every NF I meet here. I have an instant logical connection with every INTP I meet here. Every INTJ or ENTJ I meet here seems like a brother, sister, colleague, or team-mate. I'm looking forward to figuring out the functions better to understand why that's the case!

What you said about Te and Ni makes a lot of sense. I prize deductive reasoning, working through hypotheses, and the scientific mindset.

As far as Ne vs. Ni goes, here is my current conception: Ne sees reality and generates infinite possibilities; Ni sees infinite possibilities and narrows down what reality is, should be, or will be. What do you think? Does that sound accurate?

Your flashlight quote makes a lot of sense! Thanks!

Reluctanine sent me a message asking me to give her time to study my responses and come up with her opinion. So out of respect for her, I'll wait to come to any conclusions. I'm certainly curious to hear her thoughts as well!


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Can I give you some advice?

While you wait on @Reluctanine to help you interpret your functions, try reading the forum sections devoted to the types you're more torn about. Maybe engage in a discussion or two. In most cases, overthinking an issue can cloud your perspective.

I can understand relying a lot on other people's feedback, I'm guilty of that myself!
But sometimes the best approach is comparing your own views to those of your typemates to see how much do you relate. When you find your match, you'll just _know_ (particularly so if you're a Ni user.).


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## Xenograft (Jul 1, 2013)

This is a Te dom thread if I've ever seen one, we can skip all the analysis of character and take a look at how every single thought is completely fleshed out, in fact I could even argue that this is an ESTJ based on how long and drawn out his responses get. I think ENTJ is very probable, this thread reminds me of two other ENTJs posting in this subforum and asking for help. Exact same responses, also. So genial.


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## 1000BugsNightSky (May 8, 2014)

Leo Argent said:


> @Moonious
> 
> As far as Ne vs. Ni goes, here is my current conception: Ne sees reality and generates infinite possibilities; Ni sees infinite possibilities and narrows down what reality is, should be, or will be. What do you think? Does that sound accurate?


Yup!


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

> This is a Te dom thread if I've ever seen one, we can skip all the analysis of character and take a look at how every single thought is completely fleshed out, in fact I could even argue that this is an ESTJ based on how long and drawn out his responses get. I think ENTJ is very probable, this thread reminds me of two other ENTJs posting in this subforum and asking for help. Exact same responses, also. So genial.


Nah, I still want to do a proper one. Because I'm still a newbie at this and it'll help me better understand the different functions in comparison to each other, and by extension, learning more about people as well. I'm also curious if the type of questions I pose shed more light on a person compared to directly asking them whether they feel more or think more, etc. Doing a detailed one helps me see the patterns more easily and apply in future, along with providing proper proof. There's as much information in what was not said, as what was said, and I want to explore that, so my mind is a little muddled now with all the thoughts running around with my gut feelings and how I relate to it.

Sorry @Leo Argent , my reply might be a little slow because I found out all three of my pens ran out of ink while I was attempting to take notes. -_- I won't be giving my thoughts for quite a while because I have to go buy some pens tomorrow on top of figuring out how to put words to what's in my head coherently. (And, you know, Friday/weekend real life means going out. Sigh.)

Uh, anyone reading feel free to chime in since I'm fairly certain I'll get things wrong.

And @ShoreWaves is totally right!


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@ShoreWaves

Thank you, Shore Waves! That's sound advice. I've already looked up some comparison videos like you suggested and I have already come to a conclusion. I just don't want to vocalize that opinion yet so that it doesn't influence Reluctanine's thoughts. You're also right about over-thinking things. I do that sometimes. I often ask for others' opinions to make sure I don't get tunnel vision. I've done that in the past where I come to a conclusion too soon and miss out on other opportunities. So I use other peoples' opinions as a check on that tendency of mine. Thank you for your help!

@Stationary

Haha yeah! I think you're right about me being very, very Te! You're also right about my unfortunate tendency to talk too much. Sorry about that. I love to explore every aspect of an idea rather than just punching in my card and moving on. I hope I don't bore anyone. I try to express my ideas in an entertaining and engaging way whenever possible so that my proclivity for verbosity isn't too troublesome. And thank you for the compliment on being "genial!"  I'm also quite pleased to see that "genial" is associated with ENTJs. Far too often I think the ENTJ is faulted for being harsh when so many ENTJs I've met are quite good-natured about the way they deal with people. Strong and stubborn? Definitely. Cruel? Nope. Cruelty is illogical since it serves no purpose, advances no goal, and harms morale and esprit du corps.

@Moonious

Excellent! That makes perfect sense then! I was trying to reduce Ni and Ne down to an elemental concept and I'm very glad to hear I was right! Thank you! I'm quite confident that I'm Ni, then. My "brainstorming" I mentioned earlier is all about taking infinite possibilities and every idea imaginable and then whittling it down to the best and most true answer.


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Reluctanine

OK I completely understand! I'll be patient. Honestly, it's very kind of you to want to do such a detailed analysis for me! I very much appreciate it!

I'm curious to see your thought process as well. Is that a meta analysis? An analysis of an analysis? Haha it should be fun!


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

@Leo Argent 

No problem.
Let us know once you're done, you've engaged all of us far too much to keep it a secret. 

My final say is EXTJ, depending on your preference between Ni and Si.
Without stereotyping, you seem too authoritative, charismatic and people oriented to be an INTJ.


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## Elinathopie (May 23, 2014)

Well honestly, ENTJs are more like the third or fourth most intelligent with INTP and INTJ being at the top... Don't underestimate Ti and Ni lol. Anyways, I got the feeling that you were more Fe than Fi mostly because of how you react towards the group. I know plenty of ENTJs and people's emotional problems are the least of their concerns. (Even my ENTJ aunt acts very cold towards her son) Fe can understand the pain of others and want to heal them. Fi tries to avoid their own pain and people see it more as selfish, but Fi's can get really emotional about the ones they truly care about. For example, my best friend ENTJ cools down his Te around me with a little Fi, which can be extremely agressive. (Seriously have you ever seen a ExTJ that didn't look like they were gonna explode from anger?) x.x

ENFJs also try to avoid the topic of emotions a lot. They are cool minded for a time, until something really gets under their skin. All Rationals take a while to cool down too, but they blow their fuse really fast, whereas Idealists are calm most of the time. That's also why I thought you were ENFJ because you didn't like heated up arguments, just calm, peaceful debates. 

What do you think?


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

I think you may be conflating terms a bit. Logical and Intelligent are not the same. Also, there are so many forms of intelligence and so many ways of using it that even saying one type is the "smartest" is an exercise in futility and ultimately comes down to a judgment call about what form of intelligence you prize the most. So outside of an exhaustive IQ test for all MBTI types, I would tend to shy away from saying any one type is the smartest. However, if we look at the functions, T is the function for logic. That's its definition. Ergo types that are T Dom (whether Ti Dom or Te Dom) are by definition the most logical. As far as underestimating Ti and Ni, I make it a policy to never underestimate anyone.

Hm. That is an interesting thought about Fe vs. Fi. Where have you seen Fe, if I might ask?

As far as Fi being selfish, I really don't see that. Everything I have read has said that Fe and Fi both empathize heavily - just in different ways. Fe cares more about the group and has an ability to read the emotions fluttering around the room. Fi zooms in on an individual and seeks to understand their feelings, values, and motivations, to rather literally feel their pain.

I know that many people stereotype ExTJs as being angry, but anger is an emotion so if they are constantly running around seething with boiling, raging emotions that fill their soul to the brim, how exactly are they Te Dom? Now I can see ENTJs as aggressive/assertive and every ENTJ I have met is at least assertive (and many are aggressive). Yet assertiveness need not be angry or even emotional at all.

I'm really rather baffled as to why you would say ENFJs avoid emotional subjects. As Fe Dom, wouldn't emotion be the easiest and most natural thing possible for them to discuss? For instance, an INFP I know here said that she feels exhausted dealing with impersonal logic (T) but thrives and comes alive when dealing with feelings, values, or people-related concerns (F). So why would ENFJs (as Fe Dom) eschew F and INFPs (as Fi Dom) love it?

Your reasoning is very interesting, but it seems like you're portraying ENFJs as unemotional and ENTJs as boiling over with angry and aggressive emotions.

This is an interesting discussion, though! And yes, I do enjoy calm, peaceful debates. They're great learning tools both in the sense of learning new perspectives as well as learning how to reason and persuade better. Sadly though, once calm debate turns into angry argument, usually it just leads to everyone getting hurt and angry. So that isn't exactly a constructive pastime haha!


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

@Leo Argent

No problem! I actually had a lot of fun! And I learnt a lot, especially that my Si is actually more developed than I thought. When I was reading your first answer, I was like... "Okay....is he going to check his body now? Uh.... How about now? Why is he making plans already when he doesn't know if he can even walk yet? Wait... NOW he checks his body? What? Isn't he a bit too late? He could be bleeding out already."

And lol! Ne embraces all ideas and treats them all as equally stupid children. Or smart. Either way. Which is why you have infps like me wandering off to explore the island during a crisis more for fun, but hey we might come across a berry bush in the process!

Yeah. You can see that in my first few posts I was Te-ing, then later on I started to Ne more because it was getting too tiring for my mind. 

And omg you feel the switch flipping too? I can feel it very acutely when I start using Te to process stuff. Like my brain slowly becomes more sluggish and I want to sleep.... Then when I go refresh myself by reading articles to stimulate my Ne, I'm suddenly more awake again! Magic!

Well, from my limited knowledge of function pairs, an INTJ is Ni-Te, that means that his impetus is follow his one possibility, by using his ordering of the world. Whereas an ENTJ is Te-Ni, so he seeks to order the world first and foremost, and the one possibility is his guide on how to do it. There's a slight difference, but I can see ENTJ in you more due to gut feeling on how you wrote. I can't explain it very well yet, because I still have to go use my Ne to read more and link stuff up before I'm confident of an answer.

And yes, I agree, thinkers do care a lot! They just show it differently. I mean, everyone has an F in them! My dad's an ISTJ, so he shows he cares by doing practical stuff as well. But he sometimes does things wrong or makes a mess. Then my mum, an ISFJ, is like... Why did you do this? Can't you see I feel stressed already! So I usually have to step in as an INFP to try and mediate. It's quite hilarious sometimes. Like I'll be eating dinner and then the modem goes down, so he asks me to fix it. Then my Fi or Si is like... "After dinner, I'll do it." And he'll be all "Oh, okay." Like I can understand why he wants it fixed quickly, because I go mad without the internet too, but I prioritise my food over his internet needs, and he doesn't take offense at me being blunt cos he's Fi too. Whereas my Fe mum might have gone "Can't you see I'm eating dinner? You should wait until after dinner to ask me!!!!!" And then she'll come and rant to me, so I have to step in again. I guess Fe feels like when a request is made of them, they have to do it if they can. They probably feel more responsibility to others, while an Fi like me is thinking whether I feel like doing it.


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Reluctanine

Yay! I'm glad you enjoyed it too! Yeah...looking back I did take abnormally long to check my body for injuries haha! In my defense, I figured that I could observe most of those things I mentioned by just quickly scanning around. Then I could see if I'm injured before trying to really move around and get work done.

Bahahahah!!!! I love it! "Ne embraces all ideas and treats them all as equally stupid children." Hahaha! We Ni users are much more goal directed - but I will admit that you Ne users might find some useful things while skipping off into the tulies. 

Yup! I feel that switch flip every time I go between T and F! For me it isn't really a switch between on and off. It's more of a switch between left and right or between red and blue. Still, I have noticed that emotional stress seems to tire me out much faster than logical stress.

OK, well I'll trust your Ne on that one - and I think my Ni already knows where you would be likely to go with that line of reasoning due to how our conversation has flowed thus far.

Hm. That's very interesting about your family dynamics with Fi and Fe. Yeah, I have noticed Fe users do feel more obligated to do whatever they're asked to do. It's like they believe they're breaking a rule simply by turning down a request. It's also interesting that your Fi using dad can automatically use his Fi to understand how you're feeling and why.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Leo Argent said:


> Bahahahah!!!! I love it! "Ne embraces all ideas and treats them all as equally stupid children." Hahaha! We Ni users are much more goal directed - but I will admit that you Ne users might find some useful things while skipping off into the tulies.


Yeah! Like this test! It sounded as equally stupid (or smart) as my other ideas in my head so I said why not give it a try? Tadah! I'm trying to figure out if I can adapt it into a multiple choice quest with provided answers and buttons to click. I think engaging people's N or S might be a better way to conduct personality tests rather than asking them to look at themselves using their judgement function which is like looking at the back of their heads. Have to see if it's accurate first though, or if I can refine the questions more.



> OK, well I'll trust your Ne on that one - and I think my Ni already knows where you would be likely to go with that line of reasoning due to how our conversation has flowed thus far.


What? You do? Where? I have no idea. 



> Hm. That's very interesting about your family dynamics with Fi and Fe. Yeah, I have noticed Fe users do feel more obligated to do whatever they're asked to do. It's like they believe they're breaking a rule simply by turning down a request. It's also interesting that your Fi using dad can automatically use his Fi to understand how you're feeling and why.


Yeah! It's pretty amazing. I always felt more of a connection with my dad even though growing up I spent less time with him. Even now, I still don't talk to him as much as I do with my mum. But when I do talk to him it's like he gets me and I get him on some level. I don't know how to explain it. Some of the things my mum does puzzles me a little even though I spend more time with her, and I have to gently explain why this or that method might not work in her human interaction with other people. I'm sure the two of us puzzle her too though! We both probably look very inconsiderate in her eyes.


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## Elinathopie (May 23, 2014)

True, more Ts are stereotyped to be less emotional. But I've always seen anger as an emotion that was used in a more interesting pattern than Ts vs. Fs. 

Idealists- Take a long time go get angry and take a long time to cool off.
Guardians- Take a long time to get angry and cool off quickly.
Artisans- Gets angry quickly, cool off quickly.
Rationals- Gets angry quickly, cool off slowly xD

Seeming unemotional is more of an Ni and Si thing. INTJ's death stare (look it up if you aren't familiar). Mona Lisa's INFJ smile. ISTJ's bored expressions. And ISFJ's neutral look. Anger is also used a lot by Te. ExTJs will to prove dominance and IxTJs constant annoyance of people that get on their bad side and people can get on their bad side real quickly xD.

However. Fe doms are not the ones that seem unemotional. There's a bit of a misconception here. Fe is actually what makes their unemotional Ni look more lively. So the Te from the ENTJs makes them angry a lot more than ENFJs that are usually calm and just try to have peace... I haven't met a single ENTJ that wanted peace as much as Fe users lol.

So by that logic, yes, I would say that ENFJ is, in a way, less emotional. ... At least in the short term, like when there's no subjective reason to be angry. ENTJs have very low tolerance for incompetence and people that don't understand so they get angry in an objective way in that sense... Still, don't ever piss an ENFJ off, seriously. I know one that almost beat a kid to death with a textbook because her sister was insulted a few times

Edit: I almost forgot to talk about Fi. People with Fi are more... artistic about life. They enjoy the beauty of things. INFP and ISFP like to actually draw, write, etc. whereas ESFP and ENFP appreciates it. They are very observant about something and instantly get a gut feeling about how they feel about something artistic wise. ESFP with their Se dom will be the first to say "Damn you ugly" or "That girl over there be fine". 

This is most likely what all of the Fis are thinking, but none of them are really as impulsive to say it. This causes people to THINK that they're selfish because their honest to speak their mind... Then again, I think a better word might be cold or impersonal. But no, everyone has opinions, they just have stronger ones.

Err, and yea in a way you're right about the logic and intelligence thing at the beginning too. They're definitely not the same thing. Te likes to organize logic more though than actually apply some. It's a little bossy and likes to tell people what they should do. Te mostly tries to understand and deliver their logic more though. It tells people what they're really thinking easier than Ti. This is why ENTJs are seen as extremely clever. Ni is very powerful and ENTJ's Te knows how to show off that Ni in an objective manner.

But honestly, Ti is better than Te in logic and Ni is better than Ne in intuition. It's kind of like each i is the mastermind and each e is the servant. Introverts have an i as their primary and don't really tend to be very active because of it. However, that's also why they're all smarter than their Exxx counterpart. Just we like to do things more than they do.

Wow, sorry that was so long.


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## shakti (Oct 10, 2012)

You seem like a very balanced and nice ENTJ  Welcome!

As an 8w7 ENFJ that is sometimes confused by the T/F dimension, I found reading your responses quite entertaining


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Reluctanine

Well if there was a way to transfer your scenario-based test into a multiple choice format, then it may very well become the best MBTI test online! (I'm serious!) Of course, part of the reason why it works so wonderfully is that it isn't leading at all. It's very open-ended and allows the test-taker to fill in their own reasoning free of any outside influences. So you get a pure result.

As a lawyer, I know how huge of a difference it makes between leading questions and non-leading questions. The difference in result is so very stark that we are legally prohibited from asking any leading questions unless on cross examination!

Still, I think your method is WORLDS better than the existing tests! Asking people to *use* their functions is much better than asking them to tell you what their functions are! So you did a very good job!

I always hated those tests that basically ask you "would you rather be right or nice?" Ummm...how about both? My Ni hates being told to choose only 1 of 2 options haha! I try to develop an ideal plan and "either or" never sit well with me.

Well, my Ni's prediction about your Ne saying I'm ENTJ is probably based on the fact that all of my answers revolved around scientifically analyzing the outside world and ordering it - with inner vision acting as inspiration and guide. I think an INTJ would be more likely to develop an inner vision and then logically order the outside world. At least, that's my guess.

Exactly! That's very interesting to see that happen. Now that I'm learning more about the functions, I'm seeing that my connections with others are often based on shared functions. When people don't make sense to me, it's often because they strongly favor a function I don't use. For example, my INFP brother VERY strongly uses Ne. He has all sorts of crazy ideas that seem to come from nowhere and he often starts a conversation with me partway through his Ne-style brainstorming and I just give him this baffled look and say "What? Where did that come from?" Of course, if he lets me hear his thought process from the beginning, my Ni can follow his Ne pretty well.

@Elinathopie 

Hm. That makes much more sense to me.

While it's true that ExTJs are often known for assertiveness and therefore at times anger, I do think you're overstating the ExTJ-anger connection - at least for ENTJs that have developed healthily. I could easily see anger being one of their stronger emotions, but if they are wholly dominated by emotion then that really isn't the sort of objective, impersonal, scientific reasoning that is the very definition of T. Te especially is considered to be the most scientific of all the functions. It's all about rationally understanding the outside world, developing and testing hypotheses, and objective/impartial reasoning.

As far as ENFJs go (and F in general), I think we may be using very different definitions of "emotional." To be sure, all F Dom types highly emphasize peace, harmony, and empathy. But F includes more emotions than just happiness and peace. It can also include depression, anxiety, and anger - and like you said, the wrath of an ENFJ may be rare but it is terrible!

I'm beginning to notice fascinating patterns. Te is bothered by those that disrupt the logical order (i.e. doing something monumentally stupid) whereas Fe is bothered by those that disrupt the emotional order.

Hm. Fi as more creative? I haven't read that before, but it does make anecdotal sense!

You make a lot of good points, but I still think you're making more value judgments than necessary. You seem to think of some types and some functions as inherently superior to others - like saying Ti > Te or Ni > Ne or your earlier statements against ENTJs. So far as I know, the entire point of the MBTI is that no type is superior to any other. It's just a different method of operating that is optimized for different things. Of course, there can also be mature and immature versions of each type. I think that may be at the root of much of your distaste for some MBTI types. Perhaps you have met immature examples?

Of course, that last part is just a guess on my part. You make good points, but I think you overstate most of them.

@shakti

Thank you very much! That's quite nice of you!  

I'm glad you found my answers entertaining *bows*

Hm. You sound like your personality would be very fascinating - similar to me in many ways, but flipped a bit, like a mirror image. Whereas you're ENFJ and Type 8x7, I am ENTJ and Type 1w9. So that's certainly interesting!


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

I'll throw my 2¢ in here:
I'm an ENTJ 1w9. I've read only the first 11 posts (far too much to read, and I'm slow, thoughtful, and thorough with these things), but from that much, I can say that you are ENTJ -- not ENFJ, and probably not ESTJ. The way in which you approach others' feelings is how I do it: respectfully, compassionately, but ultimately with logic.



Leo Argent said:


> Pro ENTJ:
> I am very logical and I enjoy system-building. Nothing is more exciting to me than learning how the outside world works, why it works that way, and how to make that system further my goals.
> 
> I am a natural leader and it honestly takes effort on my part to not assume leadership of whatever group I am in. I am always boldly going somewhere.


Your wording seems to show not with the friendliness-first style that an ENFJ would show, but the tasks-to-complete/things-to-achieve style of an ENTJ.



> I am very honest, straightforward, fair-minded, objective, perfectionistic, and I actually enjoy receiving constructive criticism. It allows me to see another perspective and thereby improve myself.


I relate to every bit of this quote quite strongly. Honesty and fair-mindedness are probably more related to 1w9 than ENTJ. 1w9s are self-improvement junkies, although it doesn't always take the forms that you might expect. The rest is common amongst ENTJs.



> I have little tolerance for stupidity and illogical inconsistencies. I am told that I sometimes come across as "too strong" or overwhelming even though I'm only trying to help.


It's the way that you overwhelm others with pushiness to complete tasks that shows ExTJ, instead of an ExFJ's overwhelming with too much friendliness.



> I adore debate - provided that all participants remain respectful and calm. Basically, emotionally-charged arguments cause more harm than good and are therefore illogical. (They also tend to hurt people's feelings needlessly, but that's more of an ENFJ concern.) But purely logical discussions about deep issues? That's Heaven


I'm not really a fan of debate. An interest in it isn't indicative of anything, but perhaps WHY you're interested will show us something. All emotions off the table is definitely a Thinking approach. Depending on your definition of "deep issues", you could 



> I actually care about others' feelings a lot - people often come to me to help them resolve their emotional problems. They appreciate my sincerity, caring nature, objectivity, and my ability to cut through the fluff and get to the core reasons for the problem.


ENTJs are far more likely to ask "what's the point?" "Cutting through the fluff and getting to the core" is a Te trait. We want the facts to be given simply, concisely, and untainted by subjectivity. We then use what we know to reach our goals efficiently and speedily.

"Caring nature" is often associated with Fe, but it's not exclusive. I'm very sincere, and I am the one who lends an ear and advice to people with emotional problems, somewhere between "often" and "occasionally". I've had strangers spill intimate stories to me on more than one occasion, probably because I combine straightforwardness, honesty, nonchalance, acceptance, and a "good" nature.



> I like to think of myself as "the good guy" and I have a bit of a martyr complex - often choosing to sacrifice myself for someone or something else.


This isn't specifically an ENFJ trait (although there are assuredly many who would fit the bill). 1w9 explains this for you.



> I tend to be very warm and affectionate towards those I care about. I go very far out of my way to make sure they feel appreciated and to help them through whatever they're dealing with.
> 
> I tend to be polite/respectful/courteous and I strongly disapprove of rudeness or cruelty of any sort.


This is just called "being a nice person". :wink:



> I talk a lot, I enjoy socializing, and I love the spotlight.


There's really nothing to suggest introversion for you. I don't talk too much, but if I find a point where I feel I can talk without uninvitingly dominating the conversation, I can really roll. I think out loud, and if I don't think out loud, I think by writing on paper (a "Te" trait)



Leo Argent said:


> E vs. I isn't about merely outgoing vs. shy. I read that it's based on whether you gain or lose "energy" via social interaction. I definitely gain energy by interacting with others and I love performing up on stage. Parties/dates always seem to end too soon. Yet I also prefer small group environments and I tend to have a lot of traditionally introverted interests - though almost everything fascinates me. Of course, it IS technically possible that I might be an INTJ that simply has so many interests that I appear extroverted almost all the time. That issue is why I included INTJ as a possibility.


I thought I was an introvert because of that fallacy. I like more intimate gatherings where I can have personal or "deep" conversations. I am not nearly as outgoing as you appear to be. 

It's "technically" possible, but you aren't an INTJ. There would be much clearer indicators of Ni if you were.



> Another issue is some confusion about F in general. I don't consider myself to be terribly emotional, but I do care a lot about people and I have very strong values.


Strong values are more associated with Fi than Fe, and Fi is always paired with Te, while Ti is paired with Fe.

The difference as I see it is that Fe is flexible depending on how the people around them feel. Fi is not. Both will try to make everybody feel included, but Fe users will do it for the feelings of evvvverybody, while Fi users will focus on an individual; therefore, Fe users will be spreading their emotional energy, and Fi users intensely focusing it. (I couldn't help but imagine talking with my hands to demonstrate "spreading & focusing", and I find that humorous.)



Leo Argent said:


> I forget about my own hunger or fatigue when working on a project I love, which also is a very N trait from what I have read.


Si (the second function for an ESTJ) is supposedly good for remembering things and makes them more aware of their bodily functions (i.e. hunger, etc.), both of which I find quite difficult.

One example I use of Ni, the ENTJ's second function, is that, when reading a language that I don't quite understand, I'll see patterns that reflect other languages that I know, and I can often understand new words by using these patterns and similarities. It drives people nuts when I use metaphors to describe things, but it's just something that I do. It's how I see the world.

A difference between ESTJs and ENTJs is that ESTJs are quite good at enforcing preexisting systems, whereas ENTJs are willing to trash an old system and start anew if they believe it will be more efficient. In terms of vices, ESTJs are too stuck in their ways, and ENTJs are too brazen/risky in their decision-making.



> I guess part of the reason why I'm not 100% satisfied with the ENTJ label some have given me is the stereotype for harshness. If anything, people complain I'm too nice. Yet they also turn around and complain that I'm too confident, strong, or competitive. So I'm not sure what to make of that haha!


That stereotype is one of the reasons why I thought "no way" when I was told "you're an ENTJ". I find that I can be harsher in theory (e.g. criminal justice), but when it comes to real life, my inner voice keeps me calm and kind. That's how 1w9 combines with ENTJ in my experience. I often leave situations thinking "I wish I was more assertive!"



ShoreWaves said:


> You don't seem interested in knowledge in itself but rather how it could help you concretely and how it would be most useful.


Do remember that we're dealing with Te as well. :wink:
Anyway, Se deals with immediacy of action and practicality, perhaps more than Si.



> You value politeness, respect and being well behaved.
> I'd trust my intuition and say that your need of being seen as a good guy has more to do with society's expectations than a personal need to help others. You feel like it's duty to be.


That's how I feel somewhat. I don't want to live in a world where people didn't act with respect for their peers.
However, it's not persona issue for me -- it's how I believe things ought to be, what is morally required of us, and I attribute this to Enneagram 1.



> This is Ne not Ni which you'd have as an inferior function.


(As I wrote earlier in this post) I believe that Ni users, being deficient in Si, tend to have this problem of forgetting their hunger, so I disagree. I'm interested to hear if you have something that could affect my understanding of it.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Leo Argent said:


> Well if there was a way to transfer your scenario-based test into a multiple choice format, then it may very well become the best MBTI test online! (I'm serious!) Of course, part of the reason why it works so wonderfully is that it isn't leading at all. It's very open-ended and allows the test-taker to fill in their own reasoning free of any outside influences. So you get a pure result.
> 
> As a lawyer, I know how huge of a difference it makes between leading questions and non-leading questions. The difference in result is so very stark that we are legally prohibited from asking any leading questions unless on cross examination!
> 
> Still, I think your method is WORLDS better than the existing tests! Asking people to *use* their functions is much better than asking them to tell you what their functions are! So you did a very good job!


Ahaha, thank you! I'm actually toying with the idea of just developing the questions and then maybe have guidelines or something. Not sure. I'm planning to learn about function pairs first, then each type in depth before I do anything like that though. Step by step.



> I always hated those tests that basically ask you "would you rather be right or nice?" Ummm...how about both? My Ni hates being told to choose only 1 of 2 options haha! I try to develop an ideal plan and "either or" never sit well with me.


Yeah, being right is also probably being nice to you in your mind. Since you want to order the world outside and you have Fi. Things making logical sense is your way of helping out and being nice. It's giving a different type of clarity compared to an INFP who delves inside.



> Well, my Ni's prediction about your Ne saying I'm ENTJ is probably based on the fact that all of my answers revolved around scientifically analyzing the outside world and ordering it - with inner vision acting as inspiration and guide. I think an INTJ would be more likely to develop an inner vision and then logically order the outside world. At least, that's my guess.


Thumbs up! If I had more time, I would point out examples in your writing where this occured. Buutttt I think you're smart enough to figure that out, so I'll leave that to your own self-analysis with your Te-dom.



> Exactly! That's very interesting to see that happen. Now that I'm learning more about the functions, I'm seeing that my connections with others are often based on shared functions. When people don't make sense to me, it's often because they strongly favor a function I don't use. For example, my INFP brother VERY strongly uses Ne. He has all sorts of crazy ideas that seem to come from nowhere and he often starts a conversation with me partway through his Ne-style brainstorming and I just give him this baffled look and say "What? Where did that come from?"


Oh huh. Never thought of that. But lol, your brother is hilarious, starting a random conversation halfway through Ne-ing. I usually use my Fi to try and relate my Ne so that the listener can participate.

Instead of "Cupcakes should fly so that when we catch them and eat them, we'll have lost our equivalent in weight."
It'll be "Do you think cupcakes should fly? That way we'll lose weight running after them and trying to catch them." I get to hear their opinions about the gravity of cupcakes and satisfy my Fi-Ne at the same time. Win-win.

Okay, I'm off to study function pairs. Quite convinced you're an ENTJ on my part now. Up to you to decide ultimately though, and remember to change the type under your username! Shout it out proudly to the world. Have fun exploring the forums!


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Dalton 

Ha! Brilliant! That is exactly, precisely it! There's not much more I can say because you are spot on! It sounds like I may be a little more E than you are and I still find myself to be a little too assertive at times, but you have summed up what it's like to be an ENTJ with 1w9 very, very well indeed!

Actually, one little note I will comment on is that thing about languages. I do the same thing! I speak fluent Spanish in addition to English. So I can often figure out a rough translation for Italian, Portuguese, and other romance languages!

@Reluctanine

Well, I am very much looking forward to reading your finished product! I'm very impressed with your work so far and you are well on your way to fixing the canned free online MBTI test dilemma! So please let me know about your progress!

Precisely! Being right and being nice are often one and the same to me - and I use Te often in order to Fi!

Hm. That method of using Fi to supplement Ne sounds like a good way to prevent misunderstanding. And yes, my brother is hilarious! He definitely keeps life interesting!

Thanks! And I completely agree with you! I'll go change my profile to announce my ENTJ-ness to the world! Happy function studying!


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Leo Argent said:


> @_Dalton_
> 
> Ha! Brilliant! That is exactly, precisely it! There's not much more I can say because you are spot on! It sounds like I may be a little more E than you are and I still find myself to be a little too assertive at times, but you have summed up what it's like to be an ENTJ with 1w9 very, very well indeed!
> 
> ...


I don't think you used enough exclamation marks! :laughing:


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

Well! I! can! use! more! if! you! like! hahaha!

I tend to be an animated and excited person. Life's just more fun that way!


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## Elinathopie (May 23, 2014)

Err, perhaps you're right. I do tend to make exaggerations a lot. And most of my logic tends to be more anecdoctal... But the point I was trying to get across with the functions is that Ni and Ti are more intellectual than Ne and Te. It doesn't necessarily mean better though. It's kind of like how I said earlier with the i being the brain and the e being the brawn. Both are equally important for survival, but one has more power in certain areas than the other. 

Fi and Si also have more cerebral power than Fe and Se. It hasn't been 100 percent proven, but from my observations, Fi is extremely creative and has very good visual prowess. Creativity also appears to increases their rationality but I don't really have a reason why, I've just witnessed a lot of this. And of course, we all know how smart Si is. It's like 10 elephants with cameras in their brains. Seriously, they can memorize like everything -_-.

But the e functions are all powerful in the way that it makes them quick witted and mobile. They can easily express what they want to depending on the situation and the function. Like for instance, a person with Te would be very good at explaining how something is either logical or illogical and is very blunt. I, however, use Ti and I'm not very good at explaining my logical process very well regardless if I'm right or wrong. Therefore, I rely on my Ne, which instead looks up to other options and point of views. It's observant in understanding another person and can relate to another a little better.

Considering that I had to use more Ti the deeper we got into this, I don't know if I lost you or not xD. I hope that made as much sense to you as it did to me though.

BACK TO THE TOPIC: Yes, that was the point I was trying to get across with emotions, I just forgot to mention it. There are various types of emotions and I believe each function uses one more than the others. 

Check this out http://www.fractal.org/Bewustzijns-Besturings-Model/Plutchikfig6.gif
Ne- Optimism (enthusiastic about the future) Ni- Awe (Afraid of unexpected surprises)
Fe- Love (enthusiastic to help others in need) Fi- Submission (Honestly, I just know a lot of submissive "Fi"s)
Te- Aggressiveness (annoyed with incompetence) Ti- Disapproval (Same here, it just made sense)
Se- Contempt (gets bored easily/needs to do stuff) Si- Remorse (Deals a lot with living in the past)

The only one's I'm not 100 pct sure about is Fi, Ni, or Ti, but I found this to be fascinating... Perhaps you agree?

But it looks like you went with ENTJ anyway, I guess that means the fun's over xD Oh well, it was fun debating with you sir. And I'm glad I found a healthy ENTJ like you as well! Most, if not, all the ones I know are very... evil. They treat emotions as a weakness, but you understand them quite well. Thank you for enlightening me on what a true healthy ENTJ is


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Dalton said:


> Do remember that we're dealing with Te as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh absolutely!

Being a Fe-Ni user (and Ti), sometimes I have trouble recognizing Te-Ni patterns because of how differently we approach our intuition process but after monitoring his answers and general way of speaking, I promptly agreed with his 'diagnosis'. Leo has been a good sport and after all, XNTJs are quite easy to spot.


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## Mamoru (Mar 30, 2014)

You seem like an ENTJ to me

this picture helped me out a bit, so maybe it can help you out too


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Elinathopie

OK, it sounds like part of the disconnect was based in differing definitions. As I've learned in debate and in law, definitions are everything! If you have different definitions, you can debate around in circles for centuries and never even understand what the other person is saying! So that's why I key in on definitions a lot.

I can certainly see the introverted functions are more cerebral and the extroverted functions as more active - and don't worry, you didn't lose me!

I agree that is interesting and I find myself balking at the Ni, Ti, and Fi as well. The Ni = awe connection works very well - though I find using Ni doesn't make me afraid. The better I use my Ni, the more confident I am in making decisions since I know I have a plan and many back-up plans. Of course, there is that nagging worry about whether I missed something or failed to predict something. So I can see where they got that. I really don't see Fi as submissive, though. So it seems we're in agreement about that.

Oh, definitely! It was an enjoyable debate! And you're certainly welcome! I know we ENTJs are often stereotyped as villains - in part because it's so easy to be heartless when your F is your last function and your mind is wired to be assertive and ambitious. All you have to do is look up "historical ENTJs" and you'll see a lot of dictators. Of course, you'll also see a lot of brilliant scientists and noble liberators that fought against tyranny. So its seems like we're a bipolar lot: either heroes or villains and nothing in between haha! But I'm on the light side, so no worries haha!

@ShoreWaves

Thank you, Shore Waves! Yeah, we xNTJs do tend to stick out a lot! Now that I know what I am, I'm really curious to delve into other types and see how they think and feel. I can definitely see how using Ni differently could cause confusion.

@Mamoru

Thanks! That's a useful graph! It's a pity it's barely readable even when blown up. But I was able to read it.


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## Elinathopie (May 23, 2014)

Leo Argent said:


> @Elinathopie
> 
> OK, it sounds like part of the disconnect was based in differing definitions. As I've learned in debate and in law, definitions are everything! If you have different definitions, you can debate around in circles for centuries and never even understand what the other person is saying! So that's why I key in on definitions a lot.


Ugh, I know exactly what you mean by differing definitions... Me and my ENTJ best friend debate constantly and we always end up in confusion because my words mean something completely different to him than it does to me... I'm glad there's not as much confusion with you though!

Anyways, I'm glad you had as much fun as I did and I look forward to seeing you around later on this site ^^


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

Sure thing! Sounds good!


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## Grehoy (May 30, 2014)

Leo Argent said:


> Sure thing! Sounds good!


Why do ENFJs have a fascination with lions? I've come to notice that they use lion in their avatar pics and usernames?


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Grehoy said:


> Why do ENFJs have a fascination with lions? I've come to notice that they use lion in their avatar pics and usernames?


For me, male lions are associated with quiet, dignified strength. Female lions aren't as pretty to see (no mane), and they are the more violent of the bunch (they're the bread- meat-winners, after all!

So, I know why I like the lion, although I avoided them for a long time because it was not at all unique to like them. Although I can't really put it in words right now, I can intuitively understand how the lion could represent the warmth of Fe.


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## Leo Argent (Jun 9, 2014)

@Grehoy

Well, it's more or less settled that I'm an ENTJ (not an ENFJ), but I do have an abiding love of lions - as evidenced in my screen name and a profile pic I often use. So I'll answer that question for me at least.

Lions represent courage, assertiveness, leadership, power, speed, nobility of character, dignity, and majesty. 

They are also fiercely protective of their pride and are more than willing to face certain death to defend their own. They watch out for and defend the entire pride and they almost always die violent deaths protecting them. So to me they also represent loyalty, family, and selfless love. If you're part of the pride, all the lions will love you and defend you to their dying breath.

They are also quite intelligent, being the only animals capable of hunting elephants - which they are able to do using elaborate and well-executed squad tactics. Admittedly, hunting elephants is rare since predators typically go after weaker prey - but there are lion prides that routinely hunt fully-grown elephants. I admire both their intelligence and the guts it takes to hunt the largest living land animal!


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## jonatelive (Jul 21, 2021)

I just had 


Leo Argent said:


> *Am I an ENTJ, ENFJ, or maybe even INTJ? Help requested!*
> 
> Hello everyone! I'm new here and I'm an ENxJ. Frankly, that's why I joined the site. I have taken countless free online MBTI quizzes and they can never seem to decide whether I am ENTJ or ENFJ. It's always quite close.
> 
> ...


I just had the same experience! 

I recently took it 3 times. The first result was ENTJ, the second was ENFJ and the 3rd show me at an exact match of 83% for both types out of all others, but suggested I was more ENFJ do some sub questions related to politics.

Both my Thinking and Feeling were at 50% as well! 

I’ve been fishing the internet for hours trying to get answers!


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