# Questions for Ni doms



## Metaplanar (Apr 2, 2011)

Hurricane said:


> I don't know that for sure, to be honest, I think it might be an occidental illusion... Humans are a really connected species, we don't even realize to what extent. There have been studies that show we synchronize the rhythm of our movements with everyone we interact with. Not just one on one interactions, but entire rooms full of people moving to the same imperceptible beat. We lost a lot of that when we modernized and forgot our neighbors are people, too. My closest friend and I can communicate perfectly just by facial expression because we know each other so well... Of course you're always alone in your mind but to think that we're not capable of true, fundamental depth in connection to each other is an underestimation, we are one organism in the end.


Indirect communication and mirroring. People construct simulations of other people in their minds to be able to understand and empathize. Those simulations are luckily often accurate enough to make communication possible. You can "merge" with that simulation of another person's mind while they simultaneously "merge" with their simulation of your mind. It's still not the real thing. That's why people can disappoint each other, lie to each other, misunderstand each other.
"True, fundamental depth in connection" is certainly possible, direct contact is another thing. At least some, small yet still infinite, distance still remains. That is for the same reason that we can't know if colors look the same to other people, or if we just learn to describe different sensory experiences with the same words.


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## Aquarian (Jun 17, 2012)

Hurricane said:


> Whooops I figured that might happen. Sorry for what must've seemed like an incomprehensible rant.


It didn't seem to me like a rant at all. I don't see any need for you to apologize. You have a set of reference points that are meaningful to you and you were thinking through stuff. I wanted to be of use/contribute to that (since I think it's quite valuable, you're clearly figuring stuff out IMO) but i wasn't able to.

So again, IMO not a rant and no need to apologize!



> What kinds of things would you consider as "external value" concensus? (I've been trying but I can't think of any for the life of me)


Pretty much anything stemming from the dominant cultural matrix around me which is founded on power-over and control at the core.

Also institutional/organizational/group cultural material that either doesn't fit or (more often) mixes together what I would perceive as truth and lies.

And this can happen on the individual level also, for example I had a pretty rough time at first taking in my mate's strong Fi values as external material deemed highly legitimate/valid by Fe.


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## Aidan (Dec 21, 2012)

Hurricane said:


> Okay so it's starting to become obvious that I'm quite fascinated with Ni, so I have a few questions for you Ni doms (please be very sure of your type)
> 
> 
> 1- The INJ's I know, and to some extent the ones that I see online, all seem to have very rich and symbolic inner worlds. They'll often say things that have so much weight and thought put into them that it takes me a few minutes to register it all. And yet, whenever I ask them about it, about how they think and how it "goes on" in there, they don't really seem to know what I'm even talking about (especially INTJ's, but some INFJ's don't lie under the impression that they hold a lot of mysticism either). Maybe I'm crazy and I'm projecting my own symbolism onto them of course, but I'd still like to know what you think.
> ...


1- It's really hard to explain, but think ti with less awareness, more symbols, more visualizations, more obsessive, and more future based.

2- If you're using Ne alone, then yes, it's immature.

3- Well it's not like we only have Ni. INTJ's seccond function is Te which is one of the most extroverted functions. And I don't know what you mean by "meetings of the mind".

4- No, and I'm actually always paranoid about what other peoples intentions are.

5- I'm sure I have. I can't recall any examples though.


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## Cathartes (Jul 8, 2013)

I've never tried to describe my “inner workings” before, but I’ll try my best…

*What makes your inner workings so inexpressible?*
I think everyone else explained this well enough – chaotic, non-linear, abstract, lots of symbolism, etc.
Being, especially, I can totally relate to everything you said.

Instead of a “walled city”, I tend to think of mine more as layers to a grid, with a central “nucleus” that sort of connects it all, and the nucleus is where the ideas/thoughts come from. The levels are a bit like cities in themselves though, or rather, like a computer chip (my father loved to build computers when we were kids – probably where I kind of got the analogy from; the insides of computers always reminded me of cities), the “cities/layers” are like that, with threads running through them and connecting things.

*Do you think visually?*
Yes, for the most part. But, when I describe the “grid” thing, that’s not what I actually “see” when I’m thinking; it’s not a concrete grid or blueprint, you don’t walk through the cities or anything and trip over fully formed ideas, it’s really just wisps of things. But when I have to explain myself/reasoning, or try to understand it myself, that’s the closest that I can describe it as. The wisps are the best thing - just grab them and go, don’t worry or ponder how they came to be, just go for it. And the "wisps" are just symbolism - they can be described as buildings, etc, but they don't _actually _look like that when actively thinking; not for me, anyways, but that's about the only way to describe them. Or, use objects - a chair or something, or a fish, whatever. It doesn't matter - no matter what it "looks" like, the fact that it's _there_ is what matters - it signifies something, it's a thought, idea, a change, whatever, doesn't really matter so long as YOU, the thinker and creator, know what it is and what it means, and you just build upon it as you go along.

*Does Ne seem immature to you?*
Not really immature; it just seems like a lot of hassle to do it that way, that's all.

*Do you feel lonely?*
Sometimes, of course. It can be difficult and frustrating trying to connect with people sometimes.

*Do you believe you see others clearly?*
Clearly? I’m not sure what you mean exactly, but I don’t typically notice details about other people, such as appearances and so on. I just get a sort of “vibe”, and the longer I know them, the more is “added” to the vibe, and the more it sort of changes, grows and evolves.

*Do you happen to have a simple example of a clash in reasoning you’ve had with an intelligent Ne dom? Where do you think your perspectives differed?*
Yes, there are lots of those at work. You know, we come to a decision, and then suddenly they’re coming up with more ideas, which brings up further problems and debate, because then we have to argue over THAT issue now, when I just want to get the hell out of there. That’s my biggest problem with them. It just seems to waste a lot of time. We’ll spend two hours at a meeting rather than ten minutes, because people keep bringing up (seemingly) irrelevant issues.


That took me about 3 hours to write. And I'll look back on it tomorrow and wonder what the hell I was smoking when I wrote it... Blegh.
I don't really think that our inner workings are meant to be deconstructed and understood, but rather just acted upon. It's easier that way lol.


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## Doom (Oct 25, 2010)

Hurricane said:


> Okay so it's starting to become obvious that I'm quite fascinated with Ni, so I have a few questions for you Ni doms (please be very sure of your type)
> 
> 
> 1- The INJ's I know, and to some extent the ones that I see online, all seem to have very rich and symbolic inner worlds. They'll often say things that have so much weight and thought put into them that it takes me a few minutes to register it all. And yet, whenever I ask them about it, about how they think and how it "goes on" in there, they don't really seem to know what I'm even talking about (especially INTJ's, but some INFJ's don't lie under the impression that they hold a lot of mysticism either). Maybe I'm crazy and I'm projecting my own symbolism onto them of course, but I'd still like to know what you think.
> My question is, do you relate to this at all? What makes your inner workings so inexpressible? Do you think visually? Describe your thought process as vividly as you possibly can.


Normally the idea has been simmering in my head for a while, the problem lies in the fact that there is so much that goes into it that its hard to go into detail. There are often details that may seem minor but are an important part of it, the reasoning behind it can seem vague and indirect at the time because there is a constant torrent of stuff to add to it and as I continue to think of the best way to describe it I develop more theories and ideas surrounding my point. Basically its hard to get the idea out there, I don't have the Te INTJs have so it feels like its harder to validate and express my ideas outside of my weak attempts to use Ti. As a male with Fe it's like it's on the weaker side compared to females but because its externalised and presented to other people I wonder if I'm aware of when I'm using, its something that I feel like I've never tried to grasp properly.

My thoughts aren't exactly visual, its like in movies and such when they are describing something and using the words to paint a picture of what they are describing (For example yesterday I was watch an anime where somebody was dreaming of Bugs and the bugs were the actual Kanji). It's constantly moving and it lacks consistency yet often retains a familiar image. My mind isn't constantly like this but when I get lost in my thoughts it can end up this way with constant images about what I am thinking about, additionally it can also be like music. Some times I can hear a complete song in my head and most of the time I eventually remember where its from but other times I wonder if I created the song myself, unfortunately I've never been good at music but I would love to be able to turn it into music. 



> 2- Does Ne seem immature to you? (To be clear, don't base yourself on Ne users you have seen that were immature, just on Ne as a means of reasoning in itself)


My understanding of Ne is poor, I see it as a different approach from what my Se is to me where Se is more focused on whats in front of them, what we can experience where as Ne is more focused on possibilities. Immaturity to me regarding the functions isn't so much the functions themselves but more how they are used for example I see my Ti as being immature, then I see older SPs who use their Ni in a similiar way that I did as a child as they probably (unconsiously) see my Ti usage. Ne users seem like a bit of an adventure where Ne+Fi users come off as going for a journey of experiences where as Ne+Ti seems like a Journey of learning and understanding. 



> 3- Do you feel lonely? Ni is so independent, to me it always seems INJ's are reluctant to have "meetings of the mind" or merging with others, there's always some kind of subtle distance no matter how much is shared, even with INFJ's (it's not a criticism, I just find it intriguing)


To some degree, in my experience I find INTJs more intriguing than INFJs though that is probably in part due to the fact that deep down I know other INFJs have viewed the world just like I have. As far as I'm aware I have had only 1 close INFJ friend though after a while I realized I valued her much more than she valued me. The most recent person I felt like I could say anything to was an INTJ though only when I can approach her, she is more distant than me at times but even with our different views on the world I could just talk to here about anything thats on my mind or hers for hours on end and it felt like a deep bond. There was another possible ENTP though at the time I think she felt more of a connection to me than I did to her so she grew angry and frustrated eventually cutting off communication, I miss her but I think she hates me now. As a result I've given up trying to approach people, people are constantly moving through their lives where as I feel like I've become stagnant and even I guess I secretly want them or somebody similar to come back into my lives and help me but its nothing more than a futile effort.



> 4- Do you believe you see others clearly?


So much so that I question if I what I am seeing is true, with my Ni I have an idea and I constantly grow from it so much that it can end up differently from what I originally thought. I'm skeptical of my views however, I don't like the idea of them being wrong so I try to reserve judgement and the belief that I am always right. I think people are simple but at the same time complicated, with MBTI it simplifies it to a level where I can understand why people behave the way they do. At the same time people go through life and are constantly taking in the world around them, sometimes they change as a result with so much defining them yet deep down they are still the same person. In addition I feel like people become anxious at the thought of being exposed to everybody, I know I do.



> 5- Do you happen to have a simple example of a clash in reasoning you've had with an intelligent Ne dom? Where do you think your perspectives differed?


No. Though there was a possible ENTP who would attempt to argue with me even though I agreed with him. He had a lot of issues and really put me off.



> That's all for now but feel free to add any personal discoveries you've had about the nature of Ni


I see Ni as a process that Ni doms share and vary depending on our experiences, I think Ni and Ne users give off a more similar impression with each other than any other functions but at the same time probably have the most diverse outlooks on the world. Also I made this post before reading any replies so this should be interesting.


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