# The "Vibe"



## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

If I see one more person say, "I get a _____ vibe from you," I'm going to lose my marbles  Yes, hunches are great. I have them all the time... but telling someone you have a hunch about their type is about as useful as saying, "You _might_ die today." Yes, there's a possibility it could be true, but it's not helpful in the least. Why don't we keep our gahdamn hunches to ourselves and only contribute if we have something worthwhile to say? I'm guilty of doing it myself, but now that I can see how absolutely useless it is, I've become a bit peeved. The only thing the silly vibe remarks do is confuse the person whose type is in question. If you've got good reason to believe someone is a certain type, list the reason, otherwise, sit down and STFU  I don't want to see anymore vibe nonsense. I've spoken my peace, amen. *does hail mary*


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> If I see one more person say, "I get a _____ vibe from you," I'm going to lose my marbles  Yes, hunches are great. I have them all the time... but telling someone you have a hunch about their type is about as useful as saying, "You _might_ die today." Yes, there's a possibility it could be true, but it's not helpful in the least. Why don't we keep our gahdamn hunches to ourselves and only contribute if we have something worthwhile to say? I'm guilty of doing it myself, but now that I can see how absolutely useless it is, I've become a bit peeved. The only thing the silly vibe remarks do is confuse the person whose type is in question. If you've got good reason to believe someone is a certain type, list the reason, otherwise, sit down and STFU  I don't want to see anymore vibe nonsense. I've spoken my peace, amen. *does hail mary*


Typical ESxP. Always looking at the literal and not the broader picture. Vibes are an more of an NT/NF thing from my experience, coming from Ne/Ni.

Funny thing? I read your post before looking at your type and already thought you were an S before I saw ESFP


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

gingertonic said:


> Typical ESxP. Always looking at the literal and not the broader picture. Vibes are an more of an NT/NF thing from my experience, coming from Ne/Ni.
> 
> Funny thing? I read your post before looking at your type and already thought you were an S before I saw ESFP


In case you missed it, I said I also get "vibes" and I've told people my "vibes" for their types before. Am I an "N" now? Pleeeeease. Dominant sensors do have their inferior intuitive moments that can be right on sometimes. And whether you think so or not, you do utilize your introverted sensing more than you probably realize. In any case, you can keep your stereotypes... I don't want them  

That aside, if you can make a good argument for how useful vibes are when it comes to helping others type themselves, I'll go back on my original statement.


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> In case you missed it, I said I also get "vibes" and I've told people my "vibes" for their types before. Am I an "N" now? Pleeeeease. Dominant sensors do have their inferior intuitive moments that can be right on sometimes. And whether you think so or not, you do utilize your introverted sensing more than you probably realize. In any case, you can keep your stereotypes... I don't want them
> 
> That aside, if you can make a good argument for how useful vibes are when it comes to helping others type themselves, I'll go back on my original statement.


Sorry, I just enjoy pushing buttons 

I'm sort of shocked that you're asking how useful vibes can be to help others type. If you know the functions and watch your friends, don't you get ideas about which functions they use? I know when someone strikes me as Ti dominant, Se dominant, Ne dominant, etc and then I ask them. Usually I'm spot-on.

Also vibes will save your ass from uncomfortable/dangerous situations because you'll get that bad vibe before anything happens and you can choose to gtfo before something confirms that vibe.


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## Owfin (Oct 15, 2011)

Everyone gets perceptions that are hard to explain, whether they be vibes or just general... senses or pictures (my Si roud. However, the point of this theory is for us to explain those very same processes, find out where they came from and why they think what they think. Not only is explaining yourself crucial for others to understand what you are trying to say, but it will help you better understand yourself and your own type by understanding where you are coming from.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

gingertonic said:


> Sorry, I just enjoy pushing buttons
> 
> I'm sort of shocked that you're asking how useful vibes can be to help others type. If you know the functions and watch your friends, don't you get ideas about which functions they use? I know when someone strikes me as Ti dominant, Se dominant, Ne dominant, etc and then I ask them. Usually I'm spot-on.


Vibes are useful in helping people figure out their types IF you can give the person you're helping good supporting reasons as to why you believe they are a certain type. If you don't give them reasons, it's not truly useful for someone who is digging deeper into themselves trying to figure things out. This is my subjective opinion, but I see no reason why this shouldn't make sense to people. 



> Also vibes will save your ass from uncomfortable/dangerous situations because you'll get that bad vibe before anything happens and you can choose to gtfo before something confirms that vibe.


Haha, try to stay on topic. There's not a time one in which I addressed vibes lacking usefulness outside of helping others type themselves


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Bunch a hippies :laughing: Its all about the vibe, man!
Seriously though, vibes fluctuate.


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> Vibes are useful in helping people figure out their types IF you can give the person you're helping good supporting reasons as to why you believe they are a certain type. If you don't give them reasons, it's not truly useful for someone who is digging deeper into themselves trying to figure things out. This is my subjective opinion, but I see no reason why this shouldn't make sense to people.


Well I don't just "get vibes," there is always a reason for the vibe. That's where my Ti comes in and I can rationally explain my vibe. 





Ace Face said:


> Haha, try to stay on topic. There's not a time one in which I addressed vibes lacking usefulness outside of helping others type themselves


Me? An ENTP? Stay on topic? Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff that's boring


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

gingertonic said:


> Well I don't just "get vibes," there is always a reason for the vibe. That's where my Ti comes in and I can rationally explain my vibe.


Explain the vibe... that's what needs to happen! But don't just say, "Ohhhh, ummmm, yeah... I really get a 'insert type' vibe from you, herpaderp" and leave it at that, lol. It's completely useless!


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> Explain the vibe... that's what needs to happen! But don't just say, "Ohhhh, ummmm, yeah... I really get a 'insert type' vibe from you, herpaderp" and leave it at that, lol. It's completely useless!


I think we have different definitions of "vibe."

By vibe, I mean I feel a strong connection to a certain possibility, not some seemingly random emotion. Rarely have I ever met someone and thought "man I can't explain it but I just don't trust/like this guy"


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> If I see one more person say, "I get a _____ vibe from you," I'm going to lose my marbles


Okay. So what?


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

gingertonic said:


> Typical ESxP. Always looking at the literal and not the broader picture. Vibes are an more of an NT/NF thing from my experience, coming from Ne/Ni.
> 
> Funny thing? I read your post before looking at your type and already thought you were an S before I saw ESFP


When someone states something, they'd better be ready to back it up with facts and logic or I'll question it and dismiss it. (reason lack of tangible proof).

The "vibe" very much falls under this category. Basically it means that they have a vague intuitive sense of what they think it is, but no idea how to prove it nor any idea abut the validity of their own assumption/estimation.

I don't see how one could logically even consider this anything but a lead to follow, a suggestion maybe, one that could be terribly flawed and based in subjective experience and bias.

Yes 100% genuine INFP here . If one considers the possibility of the vibe being true, one also needs to consider the opposite and plenty of other tangents too \o/ thus nothing is certain and one can not trust or decide on something without gathering sufficient knowledge. (enter xxxP unable to decide stereotype).


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

gingertonic said:


> I think we have different definitions of "vibe."
> 
> By vibe, I mean I feel a strong connection to a certain possibility, not some seemingly random emotion. Rarely have I ever met someone and thought "man I can't explain it but I just don't trust/like this guy"


Yes, but feeling a strong connection to a possibility isn't supporting evidence directing someone toward the correct type, lol. What about this are you not grasping exactly? Vibes are great, but they are useless in helping people type themselves unless you have reasonable evidence to support the vibe. That's it, period xD


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Amaterasu said:


> Okay. So what?


So donkey tits! ...with relish!


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Woa, you're an ESFP now, @Ace Face? Shocka. I go on vibes initially, but I always try to back them up with evidence of sorts.


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## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

And here I thought I was being overly sensitive to the 'oh, yeah? well you're not a real XXXX anyway, so there!' I've been seeing lately. Glad to see someone else pissy about it. @Ace Face, you go girl!


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> So donkey tits! ...with relish!


What even.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

ChanceyRose said:


> And here I thought I was being overly sensitive to the 'oh, yeah? well you're not a real XXXX anyway, so there!' I've been seeing lately. Glad to see someone else pissy about it. @_Ace Face_, you go girl!


I am pissy, huh? 


* *


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

LOL I'm so guilty of this...(although I use it as a way of saying it's a hunch, not literally a vibe as in some energy force), but I'll be careful to stop =)


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

LiquidLight said:


> LOL I'm so guilty of this...(although I use it as a way of saying it's a hunch, not literally a vibe as in some energy force), but I'll be careful to stop =)


I'm wayyyy guilty, too. I got to thinking about it last night though, and realized that it probably isn't very helpful to people seeking help in figuring out their types. It brings a lot of confusion. I've seen you help people though, and you usually do provide sound reasoning from what I can remember


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

Sometimes my Ni is cruel, and I find it hard to explain my hunches about people's types.


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Rim said:


> When someone states something, they'd better be ready to back it up with facts and logic or I'll question it and dismiss it. (reason lack of tangible proof).
> 
> The "vibe" very much falls under this category. Basically it means that they have a vague intuitive sense of what they think it is, but no idea how to prove it nor any idea abut the validity of their own assumption/estimation.
> 
> ...


Well as an ENTP I have no problem explaining my vibes reasonably. The vibe "makes sense" to me and I have the ability to logically analyze it. 



Ace Face said:


> Yes, but feeling a strong connection to a possibility isn't supporting evidence directing someone toward the correct type, lol. What about this are you not grasping exactly? Vibes are great, but they are useless in helping people type themselves unless you have reasonable evidence to support the vibe. That's it, period xD


I think you're the one not grasping what I'm saying. Once again, my Ne feeds endless possibilities and connections into my head. Perhaps you should read up on what Ne does and then you'll understand because, at this point, i can't argue with you because you seem to lack the necessary knowledge. Ne is a guide for us, albeit a wildly unorganized guide. I can pick up on subtle behaviors and make inferences from those behaviors about how a person acts. For example, if I walk into a room and get a bad vibe, it isn't for no reason, which I think is how you're viewing it. People could be faking smiles, acting fidgety, being much quieter or louder than usual, etc etc, all things that are out of the ordinary and, as a result, _*catch my attention*_.

So, to relate this back to typing, _again_, I know how certain functions act in certain situations and so if a person I know seems to be displaying, for example, heavy Fe in a many situations, then my intuition tells me that Fe could be their dominant function. I get that Fe-dominant vibe from them because I can remember that an Fe-dom usually acts in such a way in such a situation and this situation is pointing me in the same direction. 

Get the idea that vibes are somehow completely random emotions out of your heads. Vibes are your subconscious reaching out to the conscious because it picks up cues that the conscious misses.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

gingertonic said:


> I think you're the one not grasping what I'm saying. Once again, my Ne feeds endless possibilities and connections into my head. Perhaps you should read up on what Ne does and then you'll understand because, at this point, i can't argue with you because you seem to lack the necessary knowledge. Ne is a guide for us, albeit a wildly unorganized guide. I can pick up on subtle behaviors and make inferences from those behaviors about how a person acts. For example, if I walk into a room and get a bad vibe, it isn't for no reason, which I think is how you're viewing it. People could be faking smiles, acting fidgety, being much quieter or louder than usual, etc etc, all things that are out of the ordinary and, as a result, _*catch my attention*_.


Show me where I said all vibes are useless. You cant. Why? Because I was only speaking about vibes relating to helping people find their types. As far as your "vibe" about about my knowledge on the subject of Ne... all I can do is lol. 



> So, to relate this back to typing, _again_, I know how certain functions act in certain situations and so if a person I know seems to be displaying, for example, heavy Fe in a many situations, then my intuition tells me that Fe could be their dominant function. I get that Fe-dominant vibe from them because I can remember that an Fe-dom usually acts in such a way in such a situation and this situation is pointing me in the same direction.
> 
> Get the idea that vibes are somehow completely random emotions out of your heads. Vibes are your subconscious reaching out to the conscious because it picks up cues that the conscious misses.


You assume I think they're random emotions, but your assumptions mean nothing to me. So, vibe master, can you tell me what Fe does and how it manifests in Fe doms?  I'm curious since this is the example you chose to use.


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> Show me where I said all vibes are useless. You cant. Why? Because I was only speaking about vibes relating to helping people find their types. As far as your "vibe" about about my knowledge on the subject of Ne... all I can do is lol.
> 
> 
> 
> You assume I think they're random emotions, but your assumptions mean nothing to me. So, vibe master, can you tell me what Fe does and how it manifests in Fe doms?  I'm curious since this is the example you chose to use.


I choose examples on their appropriateness for the situation not how familiar I am with them.

To be brief, Fe-doms in my experience are more concerned with how my words make them feel than with what my words actually are. Mom, sister, 2 girlfriends, all Fe-doms. 

And once again, you're missing the big picture. Stop thinking about whether my analogies are perfectly applicable (which they are) and get back to the discussion about what vibes are. I don't think I implied that you think all vibes are useless but you do seem stuck on the fact that I use examples of vibes that aren't about typing people. I'm just trying to explain what a vibe is. A vibe about type is no different than a vibe about anything else. 

And if you knew about Ne then you wouldn't keep bringing this moot point up. It's getting boring now.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

gingertonic said:


> I choose examples on their appropriateness for the situation not how familiar I am with them.
> 
> To be brief, Fe-doms in my experience are more concerned with how my words make them feel than with what my words actually are. Mom, sister, 2 girlfriends, all Fe-doms.
> 
> And once again, you're missing the big picture. Stop thinking about whether my analogies are perfectly applicable (which they are) and get back to the discussion about what vibes are. I don't think I implied that you think all vibes are useless but you do seem stuck on the fact that I use examples of vibes that aren't about typing people. I'm just trying to explain what a vibe is. A vibe about type is no different than a vibe about anything else.


I know what a vibe is, lol. I just didn't appreciate that you were derailing my thread with information that strays from the original topic. And your description more than proves my point, so thank you  



> And if you knew about Ne then you wouldn't keep bringing this moot point up. It's getting boring now.


Again, lololol. If you're truly bored, then I expect you not to make a return. Thanks though, for what it's worth.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

gingertonic said:


> Well as an ENTP I have no problem explaining my vibes reasonably. The vibe "makes sense" to me and I have the ability to logically analyze it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll explain how I read and understood this from MBTI books.

Ne assumes possibilities and not probabilities, there is a difference. All options could be true, however one option is the right choice and for that evidence is needed. While Ne likes to speculate about the unknown, it doesn't go with one tangent. That would be Ni. Ne is divergent and not convergent.

Providing evidence leads to making good judgment and not jumping to conclusions. Deductive thinking is the Ni user's realm, inductive thinking is the Ne users realm. This is why NPs have a hard time making decisions and don't jump easily to conclusions, unlike NJs.

My point was that while I agree about getting vibes, I disagree about considering them as probabilities. I need proof to back up the feeling, a way to rationalize it and for that reason I will gather more info until I see the entire picture as it is. Ne is concerned with reality, unlike Ni, which isn't. (objective vs. subjective perception)

Getting a vibe is a good clue, but the reality behind it could be different then we imagine, so it is a good idea to check the facts before judging.

Also function use is natural preference and not ability.


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> I know what a vibe is, lol. I just didn't appreciate that you were derailing my thread with information that strays from the original topic. And your description more than proves my point, so thank you
> 
> 
> Again, lololol. If you're truly bored, then I expect you not to make a return. Thanks though, for what it's worth.



You start a thread to discuss vibes by immediately jumping to the conclusion that vibes are crap for typing because they aren't base in factual data. I should have known better than to try and argue for the contrary but all you've done is pick apart my posts in the least constructive fashion. We're going nowhere. Boring.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

gingertonic said:


> You start a thread to discuss vibes by immediately jumping to the conclusion that vibes are crap for typing because they aren't base in factual data. I should have known better than to try and argue for the contrary but all you've done is pick apart my posts in the least constructive fashion. We're going nowhere. Boring.


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## Strat19 (May 15, 2011)

I know it's just a general rant but I'll reply anyway... I think it's possible to figure out a person's I/E and T/F preferences based on body language (vibe, in other words). People read these signs on a more subconscious level, and if they have no clue about body language they won't be able to explain why they're getting that vibe.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Strat19 said:


> I know it's just a general rant but I'll reply anyway... I think it's possible to figure out a person's I/E and T/F preferences based on body language (vibe, in other words). People read these signs on a more subconscious level, and if they have no clue about body language they won't be able to explain why they're getting that vibe.


Body language and such things can help give you an idea at best, but it's definitely not full-proof. There are a couple of really glorious threads on that topic somewhere around here...  I can link you to them if you'd like.


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## SalvinaZerelda (Aug 26, 2010)

How can you know anything is real and not some sort of screwed up dream? 
MBTI is a theory created by some guy.. aren't you taking what other people say a bit too seriously?


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Rune said:


> How can you know anything is real and not some sort of screwed up dream?
> MBTI is a theory created by some guy.. aren't you taking what other people say a bit too seriously?


Yes, it is a theory, and one I've found to prove more accurate than not. Well, I say that. I'm not a fan of MBTI, but I am a fan of Jung's work  I can guarantee you that I'm not taking anything quite as seriously as you probably think I am  Or am I? Who's to knoe?e?3?? You should ask donkey tits a couple of pages back! 









I am donkey tits.


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## nujabes (May 18, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> Body language and such things can help give you an idea at best, *but it's definitely not full-proof*. There are a couple of really glorious threads on that topic somewhere around here...  I can link you to them if you'd like.


Ok, one last hurrah. You got me with the alligator pic.

Nobody is saying vibes are fool-proof. I'm just good at sifting with Ti through the irrelevancies that Ne brings as I'm sure other "vibers" are with their functions.



Rune said:


> How can you know anything is real and not some sort of screwed up dream?
> MBTI is a theory created by some guy.. aren't you taking what other people say a bit too seriously?


Nah, we're chillin'.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

Strat19 said:


> I know it's just a general rant but I'll reply anyway... I think it's possible to figure out a person's I/E and T/F preferences based on body language (vibe, in other words). People read these signs on a more subconscious level, and if they have no clue about body language they won't be able to explain why they're getting that vibe.


How do you figure out Fi dom for example? Fi is known not to manifest in a visible way. One could mistake an INFP for an INTP based on body language. I can understand seeing Fe, Te, Ne and even Se in one's behavior, do we decide through exclusion on the introverted functions?

The problem with this is that Jung's function theory was developed through introspection, while body language is in the realm of behaviourism. It would be difficult to validate the vibe through observation, because certain things are hidden. Behaviourism rejects introspection due to the fact that one can not quantify or objectively verify the experience.

The easiest things to figure out through this method would be I or E, which sheds light on function order...but leaves us with possibilities to ponder.

One possibility to ponder right now is that functions might not even exist .

Based on observable data others have estimated me being ISTJ. Fact is I hide my Fi really well in real life.


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## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

The only person who can truly know your type is you. My whole issue with 'the vibe' thing is that, unless you are actively engaging with someone else to get external validation for they way you think you are, the person claiming they have a vibe about you is only seeing/experiencing a small fraction of who you really are.

I can't even positively type a BFF of nearly 25 years. I _think_ she's an INTP but without having a in-depth discussion with her in a way that lets me ascertain her cog functions, I really can't know for sure. For that matter, I only _think_ I'm an INTJ. Further introspection and study may prove me wrong.


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

Well as an Ni-dom I get vibes all the time, and they're usually on point. But I try to understand why I make those conclusions in the first place rather than assuming it as pure fact right off the bat. In my opinion people who look down on vibes aren't aware of the little things they do to set the vibes off in another person, just like the people who get the vibes aren't exactly consciously aware of the things that set off a vibe. If you don't try hard enough to understand the things that set them off, vibes are difficult to explain to other people. Vibes don't even have to be based on body language alone. It can come from physical appearance, how they do things, or how they communicate verbally. It's hard to explain, but if you experience them regularly then you have some idea of what I'm talking about.


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## PyrLove (Jun 6, 2010)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Well as an Ni-dom I get vibes all the time, and they're usually on point. But I try to understand why I make those conclusions in the first place rather than assuming it as pure fact right off the bat. In my opinion people who look down on vibes aren't aware of the little things they do to set the vibes off in another person, just like the people who get the vibes aren't exactly consciously aware of the things that set off a vibe. If you don't try hard enough to understand the things that set them off, vibes are difficult to explain to other people. Vibes don't even have to be based on body language alone. It can come from physical appearance, how they do things, or how they communicate verbally. It's hard to explain, but if you experience them regularly then you have some idea of what I'm talking about.


How you know your vibe is on point? How do you know the person you're interacting with isn't acting?


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

ChanceyRose said:


> How you know your vibe is on point? How do you know the person you're interacting with isn't acting?


After it is confirmed by the other person of course. I don't just project my conclusions on people, usually something happens where they are confirmed. For exmaple, for the longest time I've had a feeling that my friend was madly in love with one of our other friends. It was confirmed when he went down and confessed his love for her, she called me and told me how it happened, and I talked to him about it later. He's a very subtle guy and to anyone else it would've come as a shock because he doesn't seem like the type to do that kind of thing and he's really guarded about his emotions.


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## Metanoia (Nov 21, 2011)

I thought @Ace Face was an E*N*FP, last I checked. I guess she used up all her vibes trying to type people


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## Helios (May 30, 2012)

metaforge said:


> I thought @_Ace Face_ was an E*N*FP, last I checked. I guess she used up all her vibes trying to type people


Or maybe she figured that she was ESFP because she had to force the vibes to come.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

FacelessBeauty said:


> Or maybe she figured that she was ESFP because she had to force the vibes to come.


Or maybe listing herself as an ESFP is a silent protest to the very rampant and evident bias against that particular type


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## Metanoia (Nov 21, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> Or maybe listing herself as an ESFP is a silent protest to the very rampant and evident bias against that particular type


Is that what @Jawz is doing for the ever-embattled ENTP type as well?


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

metaforge said:


> Is that what @_Jawz_ is doing for the ever-embattled ENTP type as well?


*draws in long breathhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh* ...no. I think he honestly believes it's his type, but I think inferior Ti is throwing him in a tailspin. That's just my opinion though  I don't want to derail.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

metaforge said:


> Is that what @_Jawz_ is doing for the ever-embattled ENTP type as well?


You're on to me 



Ace Face said:


> *draws in long breathhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh* ...no. I think he honestly believes it's his type, but I think inferior Ti is throwing him in a tailspin. That's just my opinion though  I don't want to derail.












Edit: And I thought this thread was gonna be about vibrators .. how boring.


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## Perhaps (Aug 20, 2011)

Thread title sounds like an HBO mini-series.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

One of the reasons why I don't always explain my "vibes" on most occasions is because at times my explanations have been deemed too convincing. 

I've convinced people they were certain types and really made them believe it as well for a good 3-4 months at a time before I started realizing that I can convince someone to drink poisoned kool-aid and still thank me in the end for it ... So I stopped convincing people - and started giving them alternative explanations and new ways of looking at things instead. 

So umm .. when I say to someone "I get xxxx vibe from you" and leave it at that --- I'd rather not be beckoned to explain it further until and unless they want their entire perspective on humanity to be altered


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Jawz said:


> One of the reasons why I don't always explain my "vibes" on most occasions is because at times my explanations have been deemed too convincing.
> 
> I've convinced people they were certain types and really made them believe it as well for a good 3-4 months at a time before I started realizing that I can convince someone to drink poisoned kool-aid and still thank me in the end for it ...
> 
> So umm .. when I say to someone "I get xxxx vibe from you" and leave it at that --- I'd rather not be beckoned to explain it further until and unless they want their entire perspective on humanity to be altered


But if you're full of bull, someone else can at least point it out. 

On an unrelated note, I haven't ruled out ENTP for you. I'm still giving it thought  It's difficult for me to really analyze you since I don't really know a whole lot about you. I remember only vague impressions. If I come to a difinitive conclusion on my opinion on your type, I'll let you know


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> On an unrelated note, I haven't ruled out ENTP for you. I'm still giving it thought  It's difficult for me to really analyze you since I don't really know a whole lot about you. I remember only vague impressions. If I come to a difinitive conclusion on my opinion on your type, I'll let you know


So -- in other words a 'vibe'  

I accept you're coming from a good place on this. I'll be looking forward to your input. There's a buried 26 page thread in the Type Me Forum as well as a lengthy blog post you have available to you for further convincing if you like


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Yeah, I'm guilty of the vibe thing too but when I speak up I try to at least have some sort of reasoning to back it up. I know how hard it is to be on the receiving end of the "it's just a vibe, nothing else" thing...... have lost track of the amount of times people just "feel" that I'm an F without the slightest shred of data to explore (save maybe a passing reference to my usernames or use of emoticons....). It's like "yeah, good to know. now what?" xD


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Jawz said:


> So -- in other words a 'vibe'
> 
> I accept you're coming from a good place on this. I'll be looking forward to your input. There's a buried 26 page thread in the Type Me Forum as well as a lengthy blog post you have available to you for further convincing if you like


I wouldn't call it a vibe so much as a guess because like I told you long before now, I don't know you. And I was talking about you, not to you when I said that, so I can't be held responsible for committing a vibe crime that confuses the person whose type is in question. I honestly didn't think you'd see it... kinda forgot that dude tagged you, lol. On top of that, I just specified for the second time to you that I have no evidence for anything, but will continue to think it over.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> I wouldn't call it a *vibe* so much as a *guess *because like I told you long before now, I don't know you. And I was talking about you, not to you when I said that, so I can't be held responsible for committing a vibe crime that confuses the person whose type is in question. I honestly didn't think you'd see it... kinda forgot that dude tagged you, lol. On top of that, I just specified for the second time to you that I have no evidence for anything, but will continue to think it over.


Ace --- a guess and vibe are pretty much the same thing. Ok - a 'vibe' sounds more out there than a 'guess' - but ultimately when you think about it, when someone is guessing [until and unless they follow some sort of logical thought process involved that makes it an educated guess], they are still giving into the more mystical nature of a vibe.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Jawz said:


> Ace --- a guess and vibe are pretty much the same thing. Ok - a 'vibe' sounds more out there than a 'guess' - but ultimately when you think about it, when someone is guessing [until and unless they follow some sort of logical thought process involved that makes it an educated guess], they are still giving into the more mystical nature of a vibe.


I don't have a vibe, lol. There is a difference between a vibe and a guess. I don't know you and I haven't taken time to read much of what you have to say about anything... well, nothing that really stuck anyway *shrugs* I have no vibes; it is a guess xD Gracious. I saw one post one time that made me consider inferior Ti. I haven't being walking around going, "Herpaderp, Jawz is an ENFJ cuz I just get this viiiibe from him." I don't even know enough about you to get a vibe, lol. Inferior Ti was a guess based on one post I remember from a month back or so. There is a huuuuge difference.

EDIT: Left out the most crucial detail... a vibe implies that there is a bias in opinion. I have no bias toward your type, only a couple of insufficient details to consider.


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## Strat19 (May 15, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> There are a couple of really glorious threads on that topic somewhere around here...  I can link you to them if you'd like.


Sure, that'd be great 



Rim said:


> How do you figure out Fi dom for example? Fi is known not to manifest in a visible way. One could mistake an INFP for an INTP based on body language. I can understand seeing Fe, Te, Ne and even Se in one's behavior, do we decide through exclusion on the introverted functions?


I agree with you on this, Fi (and the other introverted functions) are nearly impossible to intuit based on BL alone.



> The problem with this is that Jung's function theory was developed through introspection, while body language is in the realm of behaviourism. It would be difficult to validate the vibe through observation, because certain things are hidden. Behaviourism rejects introspection due to the fact that one can not quantify or objectively verify the experience.


While that's true, I think it's ok to assume that BL is one of the few reliable cues to a person's internal response. 
We could even argue that watching people's BL in very specific, regulated scenarios would be more valid than self assessment (no idea if that's really the case, just throwing it out there). Actually I think that's the main reason why all attempts at backing up trait theories with hard data are flawed to their core; most people don't answer truthfully or seriously enough. Dichotomies like S/N (aka openness to experience in the b5) are startlingly accurate but are defined in a way that is guaranteed to make people lean towards the side they idealize. /end of derail



> The easiest things to figure out through this method would be I or E, which sheds light on function order...but leaves us with possibilities to ponder.


Yep... it's quite impossible to go at this linearly. If I have an intuition about someone it's usually rooted in function dynamics. i.e. with Ni-Fe, you'd notice a slightly dreamy, thoughtful expression, and massive amounts of charm (if you're an Fi user or an Fe inferior, it'll look artificial; as it did to me in this example).
It's far from well defined, but it's rooted in something. It'd be statistically correct to assume that charming, social people are more likely to be Fe doms/auxs than anything else. Pair this with an introverted perceiving function (it's possible to get a good idea of what it is in a short conversation) and you're set.



> One possibility to ponder right now is that functions might not even exist .


Check this out.


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## Reicheru (Sep 24, 2011)

tiem 4 epic derale.

i'm pretty terrible for getting vibes and being unable to explain my suspicions, or argue my point (in everyday life, i mean). sometimes because my brain just faulters and i'm unable to put it into words that make any sense at all, sometimes because others (particularly introverted thinkers and extraverted sensors) pick holes in the logic any supporting evidence i can muster and dismiss it straight off. this is not very useful, considering people often _aren't _logical and _don't_ follow the rules of what's expected or obvious - you have to think outside the box a little, y'know? that vibe i get from a person isn't going to just go away...
i think this is likely due to INFJs' tertiary Ti and inferior Se interacting with the higher dominant functions in those types. probably Ni/Ne clashes as well.

now that i've stopped ranting, i'll get back on topic, Ace Face. i understand your point. i see this very often with art critiques as well - "the face looks weird to me. idk why it just does" is not very helpful either. people should at the very least attempt to explain what links they have made between personality types and reflect a little - i also see a fair bit of "you use a lot of Te" without explaining in what way that person extraverted thinks, and so on. typing someone requires a little bit more analysis than "i think ur an ENFJ. idk why"


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## Reicheru (Sep 24, 2011)

Jawz said:


> Ace --- a guess and vibe are pretty much the same thing. Ok - a 'vibe' sounds more out there than a 'guess' - but ultimately when you think about it, when someone is guessing [until and unless they follow some sort of logical thought process involved that makes it an educated guess], they are still giving into the more mystical nature of a vibe.


hmm... i wouldn't personally see it that way, Jawz. when i'm guessing about something i'm just throwing ideas out there; if someone rules it out, i just nod and move onto other possibilities or options.
on the other hand, if i have a vibe about something, it's much more fixed. it's not a feeling i can shake even if it makes absolutely no sense on the surface, and even if it seems completely incongruent logically. i've thus learned to keep these silly-sounding theories to myself... they just cause too much confusion and disturbance to voice, even though i just_ know_ something's right or wrong, someone will always dispute it. argh!


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> I saw one post one time that made me consider inferior Ti. I haven't being walking around going, "Herpaderp, Jawz is an ENFJ cuz I just get this viiiibe from him." I don't even know enough about you to get a vibe, lol. Inferior Ti was a guess based on one post I remember from a month back or so. There is a huuuuge difference.


Ok -- this isn't meant to convince you or anyone else - but I think there is an excellent explanation for why my obsession with using MBTI and Enneagrams to explain everything that has transpired in my life coming across as the "search for truth" obsession of inferior Ti - and that is explained through Enneagram 359. I was so hell-bent on seeing myself as a 369, or 379 that I completely over-looked the fact that when I first got into these systems, I was typing as a 5 and 9 - and lastly 3 - and consistently overlooked that I was testing as an ENTJ as well. 

The explanation is as follows:



> I'd say that I show persistence in regard to goals and ideas, pursuing them until I'm satisfied I've learned all I can from a particular pursuit (3) or avenue of inquiry (5). And with people as well: I tend never to give up on people. I tend to avoid conflict and wait (often passively) for the other person to "come around." (9)


Even though it's a sort of a self-analysis from one of @_madhatter_'s posts in the Enneagram Tritype threads, but I can relate. Now the problem is that despite all my relationing as well as understanding and acceptance of ENFJ-ness, I always had some areas left unexplained which became clearer over time. How about we call that a "vibe". Funny thing is, I would've welcomed other people's "vibes" at that point personally - as they would've awakened me to possibilities I was shutting myself off of. But those closest to me know full well how withdrawn I really am - and how many questions I still had surrounding what I knew as "lack of ENFJ-ness" in my personality. 

So, even though others may perceive some of my posts as Inferior Ti or something else - others also saw my penchant for debate and lack of regard for the feelings of the people I got into debates with and just how easy it was for me to spot logical inconsistencies in their arguments and lead them down a path of self-exposure as NT-ish. 

Anyways  I keep turning threads into conversations about myself and leading them down tangents - but rest assured, I wouldn't have spoken up like I have had you not mentioned your concerns over my type three times in this thread already  

---

Lastly, I still think that vibe and guess are extremely close. However, I appreciate how people express those vibes and what they choose to do with them is very important with regards to the consequences of those choices


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Ace Face said:


> If I see one more person say, "I get a _____ vibe from you," I'm going to lose my marbles  Yes, hunches are great. I have them all the time... but telling someone you have a hunch about their type is about as useful as saying, "You _might_ die today." Yes, there's a possibility it could be true, but it's not helpful in the least. Why don't we keep our gahdamn hunches to ourselves and only contribute if we have something worthwhile to say? I'm guilty of doing it myself, but now that I can see how absolutely useless it is, I've become a bit peeved. The only thing the silly vibe remarks do is confuse the person whose type is in question. If you've got good reason to believe someone is a certain type, list the reason, otherwise, sit down and STFU  I don't want to see anymore vibe nonsense. I've spoken my peace, amen. *does hail mary*


Because, it's fun to try and type people, especially when you're only just learning about it. Obviously when you get the 'vibe', you take it with a grain of salt.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Word Dispenser said:


> Because, it's fun to try and type people, especially when you're only just learning about it. Obviously when you get the 'vibe', you take it with a grain of salt.













Unfortunately, fun ≠ helpful.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Reicheru said:


> hmm... i wouldn't personally see it that way, Jawz. when i'm guessing about something i'm just throwing ideas out there; if someone rules it out, i just nod and move onto other possibilities or options.
> on the other hand, if i have a vibe about something, it's much more fixed. it's not a feeling i can shake even if it makes absolutely no sense on the surface, and even if it seems completely incongruent logically. i've thus learned to keep these silly-sounding theories to myself... they just cause too much confusion and disturbance to voice, even though i just_ know_ something's right or wrong, someone will always dispute it. argh!


Personally, I still think they're merely inter-changeable words where one sounds slightly better than the other. They are extremely similar in that they both employ intuition, they both have no easily explainable reasons, and they both based on an inherent ability to gauge probability of success without being able to understand it. 

It's like look at multiple choice questions. Sometimes when I look at a series of 4 answers, I get a strong vibe about the one that is the most likely right answer - so using that vibe, I select the answer. However, the minute I sit down to actually analyse the answers instead of simply guessing, I realize that I have an equal chance of being wrong as opposed to being right about my vibe. 

Regardless, we're all pretty much in agreement about what people do with their "vibes" and "guesses" without giving proper explanations. I think some typers on this forum are just plain lazy, some are combative, some take it personally - but again, when you think about it, that actually ends up saying more about them than the person they're trying to type


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## paper lilies (Dec 6, 2011)

firedell said:


> Sometimes my Ni is cruel, and I find it hard to explain my hunches about people's types.


This.
Especially in the _Guess the Type_ sub-forum.
Also, I might have worked out a character or a celebrity type long ago but cannot remember how I came to that conclusion at all. So, I either avoid posting, babble a little, or try to work it out again.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> Sometimes. Of course, there are usually others from the outside who jump in  While the thread may turn into a mess, it usually does level out by the end... when the war is over xD


Yup .. and those threads, I've noticed the following:

1. Typee takes the tag suggested by the victor typer
2. Or typee stops responding entirely and sets tag as 'Unknown Personality'
2. The typee keeps either of the tags for a short while before creating another thread [probably wishing/hoping/praying that the 'fresh' request will keep previous combatants away] 

Given what I've seen of Type Me threads, I don't think anyone has ever really stuck with what they already weren't convinced of for long before switching/changing or creating another thread. I'm guilty of the same of course - but I'm not guilty of giving 'vibes' without explanations ... not many are. I've seen that if typees ask for elaborations, they usually get good ones as well. But not always - and then the cycle goes on.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Jawz said:


> Yup .. and those threads, I've noticed the following:
> 
> 1. Typee takes the tag suggested by the victor typer
> 2. Or typee stops responding entirely and sets tag as 'Unknown Personality'
> ...


I agree with everything except for the bolded. I would not have started this thread at all if I didn't recognize it as a common issue.


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## Metanoia (Nov 21, 2011)

Jawz said:


> And by that time, it becomes a 2-man show, 10 page battle of egos leaving the poor typee more confused than ever :tongue:





Ace Face said:


> Sometimes. Of course, there are usually others from the outside who jump in  While the thread may turn into a mess, it usually does level out by the end... when the war is over xD


Jesus! Get a room, you two! 

Seriously, though, I hate to stomp on Jawz's favored role of Devil's Advocate, but if you've spent any time on the Typing threads, it is usually pretty clear who has a better understanding of the theory and who is just regurgitating descriptions or bullet-points they've read somewhere else. 

That said, each Typer will approach the Typee from his/her own perspective, experience and interpretation of MBTI, JCF, and theory. So it's really best that the Typee hear out all the opinions offered and try to honestly gauge which Typing evaluation seems most resonant with him/her. 

But as the saying goes, opinions are like....ehem, yeah, so, in the end, the lion-share of work must be done by the individual being Typed. It's about self discovery, not who's the better Typer.


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

Ace Face said:


> I agree with everything except for the bolded. I would not have started this thread at all if I didn't recognize it as a common issue.


I think that what's also happening - which makes it seem like a bigger issue than it really is - is that there are far too many people who end up projecting their hurt over being told they're a different type than they perceive themselves to be. Many times one person's assertion is taken far too seriously and remembere and talked about more than others which creates the relatively exaggerated perception of how people aren't taking typing seriously. 

The Type Me sections work better than it seems like. Since we're on the subject, I'm going to have to bring in the fact that the Typees aren't guilt-less either because some of them resort to passive aggressive ranting about the typers ... both publicly as well as privately.

My advice is that of one is going to enter the war zone that is the Type Me sections, then everyone ought to both respect each other's feelings as well as try to set their feelings aside .... If one enters a battlefeild, one can't expect to walk away without a couple of bruises.

Of course ... not everyone views the Type Me threads as a war zone like I do  not that I go in there with the intention of fighting --- but that perception of anything happening helps me keep my emotions in check


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## Reicheru (Sep 24, 2011)

the many reasons stated by others are why i solidly do not directly seek the help of others in typing myself - it adds too much pressure and it's too easy for egos to get involved (i fell prey to this temptation in Jawz' thread...). sometimes we're just seeking to validate ourselves. i prefer to rely on myself, anyway. 

i do kind of wish i wasn't an INFJ sometimes - it does lead to a feeling of being unappreciated. our only admirable trait seems to be that there's not many of us. ...and? it seriously gets real old real fast.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

i think "vibes"/intuitions are important and should be listened to, but i also think the person should attempt to back them up. i realize that sometimes this "feeling" is hard to reason out or explain, so... patience on the parts of both parties? i know that i'll begin speaking with my hands, or pacing, or i'll just wander off alone and try, again lol, to intuit/"let the _why _come to me".

let's say you have a person who's developing tertiary Te or Fe (Je in general). if they are in the beginning stages of doing so, it seems to me that one would have to not only override their existing Ji in order to do so (as in, to gain the opposite one has to "dismiss" the existing), but would also have to devote more energy towards a potential growth-spot, so for a time being the function itself would tend to "inflate to an abnormal proportion"(?). to someone who doesn't know this person (and can't see signs of their inferior), all they might see is Se+Je or Ne+Je (or either, flipped) which could throw a light onto EXXJ's instead of EXXP's. 

what if someone is seeing signs of Te/Fi--again, no access to an inferior--wouldn't one have to be able to compare not only those two against each other, but the relationship of the pair itself against the other existing dichotomy to gain perspective on which would be more pervasive and influential in the person's psyche--not to mention comparing their current situation with their past? what if this isn't possible due to the environment the person is in? 

some people believe that the dominant/inferior should much more recognizable than the aux.'s, some believe the aux.'s should have evidence of more conscious use in a person depending on their age, and the age at which they become conscious is up to debate--what constitutes as "conscious" use?--how do we not project our own bias onto another person?--how do we know if we're doing it? the inferior can be consciously used (rarely), but when it's not and we're looking for "negative signs", what do we look for? can someone be in the grip and use it positively--could this 'positive use' confuse the type-r into thinking, "well... that wasn't half bad, maybe it's not their inferior"? wouldn't all of everything that we infer from another person have to actually be asked of that person since our powers of perception are of a "human level" and at no point does it make more sense to assume something that could just as easily be asked? 

when it comes down to it (always correct me if i'm wrong/my knowledge is second-hand at best), but i don't think anyone _really_ knows how psyche structures itself, how it grows, and i'm not sure why everyone is set on trying to prove that we all develop in one way--even Jung admitted his own bias, speaking about how this entire subject was most likely closer to his own, personal psychology. if that is true, then there really isn't "just one way", and all the thinking and theorizing on somehow categorizing and attempting to restrain the reaches of human psychology into a neat understandable box is... well, it's great, we layer/cross-out and layer again, i would just point out that there is debate/controversy/and crossing-out, and when it comes down to it, our hunches are not being transmitted from an infallible source, they are based on our own personal experience (maybe with a little "collective unconscious" thrown in for good measure ), and based on our understanding of a theory; but no matter how sound our understanding is, it's only ever as good as the theory was sound to begin with. so, in that case, all we can do is go with our intuitions/whatever and the mind-set that accompanies them to allow us to have a more balanced view of things.

in most cases, sometimes i see a post that was really insightful, other times it's almost like the existence of "socially acceptable intuition" gives people a way out of thinking critically (even here, am i projecting a sense of negativity onto others for my own shortcomings, _or, _is this something that i've seen objectively--in other words, how does one tell from the outside how i subjectively view it?) . for myself, i constantly get a notion or feeling, or, these things define my approach in general to view the world in a very personal, (hopefully) uninfluenced way. i'll see people say things like "so-and-so is a XXXX, based off of [insert stupid reason]" and then be like, "man, don't you understand how my intuitive mind works, maaaaan", and i'm like, "yeah, i know how intuition works and i also know when someone thinks their right because they're working off of something that doesn't actually _work/make sense _as a base for their _intuition._"... there is a difference, i can also tell when someone has put very little thought into what they're talking about. i mean, i don't see people very often taking into account levels of growth/general health/life experience/basically anything that could skew what you're seeing, making one thing appear to be a very common reason/result when it's actually being masked... when typing people... how can you not take all that into account--i mean at a certain point you're basically flipping a coin to type someone since one is basically being selective with what information they consider (not realizing that rejecting certain information will color what you do pay attention to)... at best, it's a 50/50-solution with that route. i mean, ignoring other sources of data intake/whatever... ignoring your other, "less preferred method" only weakens the ability of your dominant process... (so, i guess in my case i need to actually do research myself and not rely on the second-hand info. ... for all i know i'm working with incorrect facts/impressions). 

end rant/ and have a great day!


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Reicheru said:


> the many reasons stated by others are why i solidly do not directly seek the help of others in typing myself - it adds too much pressure and it's too easy for egos to get involved (i fell prey to this temptation in Jawz' thread...). sometimes we're just seeking to validate ourselves. i prefer to rely on myself, anyway.
> 
> i do kind of wish i wasn't an INFJ sometimes - it does lead to a feeling of being unappreciated. our only admirable trait seems to be that there's not many of us. ...and? it seriously gets real old real fast.


Yeah, a lot of people are only seeking to validate themselves, but we don't know the poster's intentions upon initially responding to their "Type Me" thread unless there are already a few pages of the poster trying to explain why he/she IS a certain type. There was this one thread with a now retired member in the enneagram forum... lol. His thread was basically pages and pages of people who know what they're talking about explaining to him why he should consider CP6 for his main type. The dude got angry because he was so sure he was an 8. If a poster chooses to be ignorant and pass off the good information provided him, that's his problem. At least other people tried to help and gave sound reasoning. You can't save 'em all, but you can help quite a few get started in the right direction


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

Reicheru said:


> i do kind of wish i wasn't an INFJ sometimes - it does lead to a feeling of being unappreciated. our only admirable trait seems to be that there's not many of us. ...and? it seriously gets real old real fast.


Sometimes for the people who use whatever functions, they're not what others crack it up to be. Apparently I am a Ne dom., but I'm not inventive.


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## Chipps (Jun 1, 2011)

The only time I use the word "vibe" is when I know something is right but I don't feel like explaining my reasoning behind it. Lol. I just expect people to be able to fill in the blanks and just know what "vibe" means. This is why I don't type people. It requires too much writing and explanation. Apparently "trust me, I know" isn't good enough for people around here.:laughing:


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## SilentScream (Mar 31, 2011)

atypeofuser said:


> Sometimes for the people who use whatever functions, they're not what others crack it up to be. Apparently I am a Ne dom., but I'm not inventive.


Depends on what you mean by inventive.


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