# Validity of integration-disintegration lines



## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Well, one hypothesis would be that Riso and Huddson or Ichazo or Naranjo or all three of them observed that the people who seemed to represent the nine types seem to behave more like another type when healthy and another when unhealthy, or described states that sounded like a specific type more so when integrating and vice versa.
> 
> RH still call the integration point as the point of growth on their website so I assume they still stand for this assertion.


Actually I think the Enneagram Institute is still _selling _the idea of integration/disintegration. I've heard them hedge their view on the concept by saying that you can move to the unhealthy levels of your integration point and the healthy levels of your disintegration point as well.


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## Ryosuke93 (Feb 29, 2012)

Oh, I just wrote about this in another thread. I am 4 who when really stressed tends to move to unhealthy 1. I get critical and bossy, especially to my own self. I feel like it even led to an eating disorder when I was a teen because i got so strict with myself. I then fell into a deep depression. Oh and during that time I had reached out to a self help religious book which unfortunately further fueled the type 1 critic by making me feel like I deserved this pain because i was not listening to god. A way out of that depression was moving to 2. Seeing the pain I was causing others and wanting to care for them by taking care of myself. I became more forgiving and other centered and eventually became well again. This is why the quote in my signature means so much to me. It is like my connection to 2. One way out of the darkness.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> What I've found to be the core problem with 5 is that they think they can understand the world through the intellect, but that understanding is conceptual. I've found you truly begin to understand it by stepping into it and experiencing it. *Both 8 and 7 can help with that.*


How does type 7 help with that, being another head type and whose nature is focused on running away from/ignoring problems rather than dealing with them?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> Ahh, growth is freedom from your fixation. This is what the Enneagram types are originally about. Ichazo presented the nine ego fixations that keep us stuck. As I understand it, his Arica school was much about following methods that would awaken you out of that fixation. The Enneagram simply pointed to where the work would need to begin.
> 
> You are all nine types (or at least you have that potential as a human). Why not explore all nine types in yourself rather than swap one limitation for another (move from 5 to 8). It's fine to start to explore freedom by moving from 5 to 8, but there's no reason to limit yourself to only that path.


You didn't answer my question. I wasn't asking you about the background to the enneagram or how Ichazo understands enneagram, but I was specifically asking you how growth would be achieved for a type 5 if we assume it can be achieved from both connections. I never once mentioned anything about limiting oneself to "one path". 

So again, how is growth actually achieved for type 5 if we can grow from both points or from the connection to 7?


> I learned something important while studying NLP. You can try to stop a habit, addiction, or fixation cold turkey. But, it's there because it's doing something for you in your life. It's better to find a substitute that does the equivalent for you but does it in a much more healthy way. You can't just stop being a 5 without developing the skills of another type - you simply wouldn't be able to function in life. The skills of your type are what have gotten you through life. The movement to other types is simply exploring other ways of being so that you're not stuck with only one way of dealing with life. You can move to 8 and that may get you out of your 5 fixation. But 8 can also get you stuck in situations where 8 is not the best way to go in a given circumstance just as sometimes 5 isn't. So actually, my approach is to explore all 9 types rather than just the one type pointed to by a line with an arrow pointing away from it.


I don't think integration or growth occurs for a type by exploring other ways of being, rather, it's about actualizing yourself and finding your own strength and self-worth. The connection to 8 does not get you out of your core fixation - it is when you realize your own inner strength and overcome your weaknesses inhibited by your core fixation. When doing so, you will thus also in fact become more 8-like because type 5's strength has been 8 all along, but that strength is denied through repression. This is why the concept of soul child exists which builds on the idea that one type is always the counter-act of another type and thus a repression of that type, which is in line with the law of seven. 

Furthermore, what you write is quite exemplary of a 9 looking for meaning in its own integration point being moving towards 3. It is the 369 triad that has the most difficulty telling who they are inside along with type 2, and especially type 9 is prone to identity and "try out" new identities in order to figure out which one is the most successful for them to move forward in life. The part about being "stuck" with one identity is typical 9 logic, especially as you say yourself to ironically explore all 9 types. What is it that 9s do? They explore all 9 types to see what fits them. 

This is not how 5s operate. 5s have a stable sense of self and do not need to "explore" other identities in order to figure out who they are and how to grow as people. 5s being a competency type are extremely aware of their own strengths and weaknesses and what is needed in order to improve these areas if necessary. 

So again, please provide me some compelling arguments why it would be beneficial for type 5 to move towards 7 in order to achieve integration given the inherent nature of the type's pathology.


> If you're really interested in moving toward 8 then use your quote above to find the way. 5 is too much in the head. 8 is more about direct experience. What's going on in this quote is that your 5 is telling my 8 that I need to offer some logical argument instead of relying on my actual experience. If you can untangle this for yourself, you may find what you claim you're looking for (healthy integration of type 8). Just be careful the type 5 ego doesn't take over and you miss this opportunity by turning this into a competition of who has the more logical argument.


You did not understand what I wrote in that quote, clearly. I was summarizing your argument and was asking for feedback from you to validate if this is how you reason. This is not about some kind of multiple identities scenario as you posit it is. Ironically again, this is something more common with 9-3 think, 9s having an inability to identify with the core of themselves because they see themselves in everything and type 3 having too an easy time to mold themselves according to everything. 

It is not so much whether my ego is being over-taken by a certain type. How can it be when I _am_ this very type to begin with? This is who I am. I am a person and when I express myself you can also understand these expressions by fitting them into various logical structures, one of them being the enneagram system. When doing so, it is revealed that I as a person seem to embody the nature of type 5. Therefore logically, I am type 5. This is me and this is my ego. 

This is not about competition of who has the most logical argument. I never once claimed it to be a competition or saw it as such. I do however see it as a discussion and I ask for you to validate your theory better with substantial evidence more than your own personal anecdotes. I don't think that's an unfair claim to make considering that you make a positivist statement and I'm asking you to actually bring some meat to be able to convince me. What you're doing now is not that much different to the analogy of the invisible pink unicorn, and when I ask you how you know it's pink you simply tell me you can't because it's invisible and you simply ask me to believe you because you think you know. It doesn't work that way. That's simply not valid reasoning. 

Instead, all you give in return is in fact just fluff, pointless, meaningless fluff. The latter sentence of the above quote is a perfect example of this which simply reveals how poorly you in fact understand type 5. So for the third time, please show me with substantial evidence and well-structured arguments why it's beneficial for type 5 to integrate towards type 7 and I might reconsider my position. 

Also, claiming that R&H are just trying to "sell" and "market" the idea of integration and disintegration points is quite an ironic statement to make considering how keen R&H are in order to validate enneagram theory as actual science. If anything they are the "Dario Nardis" of enneagram theory. I think they have quite thought about why they consider type 5 moving towards type 8 as a growth point and moving towards type 7 a stress point. 

You have yet to show me how this reasoning is invalid by explaining how type 5 benefits from growing from type 7 given the pathological nature of the type, and you have yet to show me how this is not in line with the original mathematical ideas laid out by Gurdjieff and the law of seven, later developed by Ichazo.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

LeaT said:


> How does type 7 help with that, being another head type and whose nature is focused on running away from/ignoring problems rather than dealing with them?


I think you're too stuck on the negatives of type 7 for you to find what you're asking. It's like if someone asked "how can the over-analysis and procrastination of type 5 help me?" 

One example that comes to mind is that some 7s are driven by a sense of curiosity that they then investigate by participating in the world in order to satisfy that curiosity. Type 5 tends to pull back into observation of the world instead of discovering through participation.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

LeaT said:


> It is not so much whether my ego is being over-taken by a certain type. How can it be when I _am_ this very type to begin with? This is who I am. I am a person and when I express myself you can also understand these expressions by fitting them into various logical structures, one of them being the enneagram system. When doing so, it is revealed that I as a person seem to embody the nature of type 5. Therefore logically, I am type 5. This is me and this is my ego.


All I can say is that the Enneagram developed as a means of identifying your ego so that you see how you get trapped by it. The whole point is to see that your ego is simply a functioning of your mind. Much like your heart beats on its own, the mind also does its thing. When you can see the ego as simply a process or functioning of your mind and disidentify with that process (in this case the fixation) then you can begin to find some freedom from it. You are not a type 5. You are not your ego. You are not your mind. It's ultimately developing the ability to look at it's patterned response and say "there IT goes again." And IT is not YOU. I can't think of anything else for me to say without you just getting deeper into the type 5 ego defense (conceptual analysis). I study the Enneagram to get beyond the limits of my dominant type. You seem to be taking an approach where you want to become the best type 5 you can. I sincerely wish you the best of luck with that. That approach is not for me.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

IluvHSJ said:


> A way out of that depression was moving to 2. Seeing the pain I was causing others and wanting to care for them by taking care of myself. I became more forgiving and other centered and eventually became well again. This is why the quote in my signature means so much to me. It is like my connection to 2. One way out of the darkness.


Thanks for sharing that. That's the point I was hoping to get across to others who may limit themselves by pinning all their hopes on the type labelled through the direction of integration. There may actually be another type that can better help them find a way out.

By the way, do you have any thoughts on Frankl's primary type? I played around with the idea of type 4 but I never could pin it down.


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## Ryosuke93 (Feb 29, 2012)

"Thanks for sharing that. That's the point I was hoping to get across to others who may limit themselves by pinning all their hopes on the type labelled through the direction of integration. There may actually be another type that can better help them find a way out.

By the way, do you have any thoughts on Frankl's primary type? I played around with the idea of type 4 but I never could pin it down." -enneathusiast


I read Frankl before enneagram stuff, so when i discovered the enneagram and saw how 4s typically try to find meaning in things, I wondered if Frankl was a four or had a 4 wing. I find it difficult to type others, but I could see Frankl being a 4w5 like an intp 4w5 or a 5w4. I wish I knew for sure what he was. His book was like medicine for my troubled past, so I am curious why did his theories affect me so well...was he a 4? I hope to know the right answer one day, if possible.


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## Aquarian (Jun 17, 2012)

I don't understand the integration-disintegration lines at all because I can see no representation of this theory in my lived experience.

When I'm stressed, I respond like a less-than-healthy or unhealthy (depending on the level of stress) 6. When I'm not stressed, I respond like a healthy 6. I don't "integrate" toward 9. I integrate - if I can even use that word accurately here - toward deep faith (what that means to me, and what I am supposed to have lost as a 6). 

I just don't find any actual use value in the integration/disintegration lines because I have yet to see any real use for this concept in my actual lived experience. And so I have nothing experiential or real to ground the theory in when it comes to my life, as it does not in any way assist me in increasing clarity of understanding or action. It really truly makes zero sense to me for that reason.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> I think you're too stuck on the negatives of type 7 for you to find what you're asking. It's like if someone asked "how can the over-analysis and procrastination of type 5 help me?"
> 
> One example that comes to mind is that some 7s are driven by a sense of curiosity that they then investigate by participating in the world in order to satisfy that curiosity. Type 5 tends to pull back into observation of the world instead of discovering through participation.


I asked you to provide with positive reasons what type 7 brings that would be beneficial over type 8. Also, type 5s are also driven by a sense of curiosity and this might lead them to act as well, especially if counter-passion like I am. I have no problems to act to satisfy my sense of curiosity. In fact, you can equally argue that it is the integration towards 8 that allows the type 5 to overcome the problem of withdrawn-ness in order to experience the world. 

Your example isn't specific and peculiar to type 7. 



enneathusiast said:


> All I can say is that the Enneagram developed as a means of identifying your ego so that you see how you get trapped by it. The whole point is to see that your ego is simply a functioning of your mind. Much like your heart beats on its own, the mind also does its thing. When you can see the ego as simply a process or functioning of your mind and disidentify with that process (in this case the fixation) then you can begin to find some freedom from it. You are not a type 5. You are not your ego. You are not your mind. It's ultimately developing the ability to look at it's patterned response and say "there IT goes again." And IT is not YOU. I can't think of anything else for me to say without you just getting deeper into the type 5 ego defense (conceptual analysis). I study the Enneagram to get beyond the limits of my dominant type. You seem to be taking an approach where you want to become the best type 5 you can. I sincerely wish you the best of luck with that. That approach is not for me.


I understand this concept very well, however, did you understand what I wrote? No. I said I am my ego, I am myself, this ego happened to express certain patterns and behaviors we ascribe to type 5, therefore, the logical conclusion is again, I must be type 5. 

A 5 is never going to turn into a non-5 no matter how healthy. A 5 is still going to be a 5 no matter what. This logic you present here again as the ego being permeable and something you do not need to identify with strikes me as very 9-like. I was in fact having this discussion with @Dying Acedia not too long time ago where he wrote exactly what you wrote in the above and how he experienced his ego this way and I do not. 

I am not dislocated outside my own ego. This isn't about getting beyond the limits of your dominant type. You cannot do this anyway. Either you are a type or you aren't. Rather, it's about realizing your own inner potential and when doing so you can move beyond your type's pathology. For type 9 specifically, this is to take on a successful image due to their connection and integration point towards 3. 

This isn't about becoming the best type 5 as I can or even over-identifying with type 5. That is you ascribing meaning I do not ascribe to the type system. A type is just that, a type. It describes various traits, motivations, thinking patterns and behaviors you happened to exhibit. Thus, it's a description of something you already are in possession of. You define the type by being you. We can later fit this into various systems if we so choose.

Even if I knew nothing about enneagram I'd still be a type 5 because my way of being fits type 5 the best. Aside that, I do not ascribe any specific meaning to the type itself. I just am. I do however realize what I need to do in life in order to become healthy and I also find that this seems to line up with the integration point of type 5. 

That is all there is to it. I would have figured this out without enneagram. Enneagram just gave it a name.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I asked you to provide with positive reasons what type 7 brings that would be beneficial over type 8. Also, type 5s are also driven by a sense of curiosity and this might lead them to act as well, especially if counter-passion like I am. I have no problems to act to satisfy my sense of curiosity. In fact, you can equally argue that it is the integration towards 8 that allows the type 5 to overcome the problem of withdrawn-ness in order to experience the world.
> 
> Your example isn't specific and peculiar to type 7.


You seem to be missing the particulars about my example...that they then *investigate by participating in the world* in order to satisfy that curiosity...if you don't understand or accept what I'm saying then simply spend some time with someone who identifies with type 7 and find it for yourself. That's how I did it.

You also seem to be hell-bent on convincing yourself or me that type 5 is not my primary type, that type 9 is. If that's what you need to do for yourself, have at it. 

Your replies remind me that many people come at the Enneagram from a different background than I do. I spent 12 years exploring what Zen was pointing to before I started exploring the Enneagram. I forget that most people haven't spent the same amount of time exploring all that goes with that. Thanks for reminding me. I'm truly sorry for thinking I could point you to what I discovered for myself. Follow your own path, but I don't think I can help you with that. The differences between our two paths seem too great.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> You seem to be missing the particulars about my example...that they then *investigate by participating in the world* in order to satisfy that curiosity...if you don't understand or accept what I'm saying then simply spend some time with someone who identifies with type 7 and find it for yourself. That's how I did it.


I understand exactly what you mean and I'm saying that a 5 with a strong connection to type 8 could do this, too.


> You also seem to be hell-bent on convincing yourself or me that type 5 is not my primary type, that type 9 is. If that's what you need to do for yourself, have at it.


I'm simply pointing out that your thinking seems closer to that of type 9 and I can't relate to it.


> You're replies remind me that many people come at the Enneagram from a different background than I do. I spent 12 years exploring what Zen was pointing to before I started exploring the Enneagram. I forget that most people haven't spent the same amount of time exploring all that goes with that. Thanks for reminding me. I'm truly sorry for thinking I could point you to what I discovered for myself. Follow your own path, but I don't think I can help you with that. The differences between our two paths seems too great.


Yet you keep failing to provide and showcase this insight when it come to yourself and enneagram theory.

Instead of actually answering my questions you fall back on the defense that your experiences triumph everything, except you fail to even explain how your experiences disprove the established theory.

Criticism of the established does not make it true because you say it's true. If it's true then there should be something to back up that assertion. Studying Zen does not mean you possess more insight than I or understand things better than I. You do not know my experiences or my insights.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

IluvHSJ said:


> His book was like medicine for my troubled past, so I am curious why did his theories affect me so well...was he a 4? I hope to know the right answer one day, if possible.


I wish there were a list somewhere that could suggest an author or book as good medicine for each type. I'm surprised no one's attempted that yet (or maybe someone has but I'm not aware of it).


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

LeaT said:


> I understand exactly what you mean and I'm saying that a 5 with a strong connection to type 8 could do this, too.


Well the difference with 8 that I see is that it's more about a gut impulse to get what they want rather than a mental curiosity that needs to be explored. 



LeaT said:


> I'm simply pointing out that your thinking seems closer to that of type 9 and I can't relate to it.


That's what I sensed. I guess working with the Enneagram for 20 years allowed me to find a lot of freedom from the 5ness. It's still always operating and available to me, I just have more choice as to when to tap into it. I also don't experience myself in terms of a single type but as a movement between types with type 5 as the observer of it all.



LeaT said:


> Yet you keep failing to provide and showcase this insight when it come to yourself and enneagram theory.


I can't do it on a forum. It requires one or more books (which I'm actually working on).



LeaT said:


> Instead of actually answering my questions you fall back on the defense that your experiences triumph everything, except you fail to even explain how your experiences disprove the established theory.


That could be because you and I look at theory differently. I see theory as valid only if it explains reality or experience. If it doesn't then it's just a mental construct that needs more work.



LeaT said:


> Criticism of the established does not make it true because you say it's true. If it's true then there should be something to back up that assertion.


Again, I think this points to the difference between us that I mention above. For me what makes it true is if it matches experience.



LeaT said:


> Studying Zen does not mean you possess more insight than I or understand things better than I. You do not know my experiences or my insights.


I agree. I only mentioned that to note the seeming differences between our experiences and how we approach things.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> Well the difference with 8 that I see is that it's more about a gut impulse to get what they want rather than a mental curiosity that needs to be explored.


And I'm saying that such gut impulses can drive the 5 to seek knowledge, too. In fact, I'd argue it is already an underlying foundation of the type itself.


> That's what I sensed. I guess working with the Enneagram for 20 years allowed me to find a lot of freedom from the 5ness. It's still always operating and available to me, I just have more choice as to when to tap into it. I also don't experience myself in terms of a single type but as a movement between types with type 5 as the observer of it all.


If that's true, then what health level would you consider yourself to be at currently?


> I can't do it on a forum. It requires one or more books (which I'm actually working on).


You could still try to write a summary.


> That could be because you and I look at theory differently. I see theory as valid only if it explains reality or experience. If it doesn't then it's just a mental construct that needs more work.


And what says that I don't? The problem seems to be that we fundamentally experience reality differently which is not the same as claiming that I do not look at theory as valid if it fails to explain reality.

So again, for the nth time, how does theory match up with your experiences and what is your reality?


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

LeaT said:


> And I'm saying that such gut impulses can drive the 5 to seek knowledge, too. In fact, I'd argue it is already an underlying foundation of the type itself.


I agree that you could use the type 8 approach. I'm just saying the type 7 approach can be used as well. It's coming from a different motivation though.




LeaT said:


> If that's true, then what health level would you consider yourself to be at currently?


I don't find the levels of health useful. I took a training with Riso 20 years ago where he said he came up with the levels of health in his attempt to understand why people of the same type are so different. I have different ideas and experiences on that.



LeaT said:


> You could still try to write a summary.


It would raise more questions than it answers.



LeaT said:


> So again, for the nth time, how does theory match up with your experiences and what is your reality?


I'm guessing you're talking about Enneagram theory. The bottom line is that Enneagram theory doesn't match up with my reality. Enneagram theory for me is simply a starting point for exploring reality. Reality reshapes Enneagram theory into something that matches personal experience.

A good example of this would be with any labels used on the types. For instance, the type 5 passion of avarice points to something nearby. The experience points to something more specific like hoarding or holding onto. The type 4 passion of envy points to something close but misses the mark. The experience as I've heard it described is more of a cue or reminder that there's something that the other person is that I'm not - having to do with a sense of capability or deficiency.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> I agree that you could use the type 8 approach. I'm just saying the type 7 approach can be used as well. It's coming from a different motivation though.


Except you still fail to show how it's indicative of 7 rather than 8.


> I don't find the levels of health useful. I took a training with Riso 20 years ago where he said he came up with the levels of health in his attempt to understand why people of the same type are so different. I have different ideas and experiences on that.


So I ask again, what health level do you think you are at currently? It doesn't have to be RH's health levels as I clearly never specified this, but just health levels in general. How healthy do you think you are on a scale from 1-10?


> It would raise more questions than it answers.


You just need to summarize. If you can't summarize your own ideas when asked, one ought to wonder if those ideas exist at all or not, or whether they are just empty words trying to avoid answering the question and thus showing the lack of content.


> I'm guessing you're talking about Enneagram theory. The bottom line is that Enneagram theory doesn't match up with my reality. Enneagram theory for me is simply a starting point for exploring reality. Reality reshapes Enneagram theory into something that matches personal experience.


Either the theory applies to you or it doesn't and if it doesn't apply properly one ought to ask why this is. Maybe the problem isn't the nature of the theory but your ability to apply it properly?


> A good example of this would be with any labels used on the types. For instance, the type 5 passion of avarice points to something nearby. The experience points to something more specific like hoarding or holding onto. The type 4 passion of envy points to something close but misses the mark. The experience as I've heard it described is more of a cue or reminder that there's something that the other person is that I'm not - having to do with a sense of capability or deficiency.


So what do you think avarice and envy are, exactly?


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> I don't find the levels of health useful. I took a training with Riso 20 years ago where he said he came up with the levels of health in his attempt to understand why people of the same type are so different. I have different ideas and experiences on that.


Can you explain your ideas and experiences that show how different people exist within the same type? What _is_ a type to you? How do you conceive of it?



> It would raise more questions than it answers.


And this is bad, how?



> I'm guessing you're talking about Enneagram theory. The bottom line is that Enneagram theory doesn't match up with my reality.


So how'd you get that you're a 5 in the first place?


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Except you still fail to show how it's indicative of 7 rather than 8.


_already did, your problem if you didn't like it_



LeaT said:


> So I ask again, what health level do you think you are at currently? It doesn't have to be RH's health levels as I clearly never specified this, but just health levels in general. How healthy do you think you are on a scale from 1-10?


_told you I don't ascribe to that_



LeaT said:


> You just need to summarize. If you can't summarize your own ideas when asked, one ought to wonder if those ideas exist at all or not, or whether they are just empty words trying to avoid answering the question and thus showing the lack of content.


_wonder what you will, I'm not here to promote my book, you can visit the book website when I finish it if you like_



LeaT said:


> Either the theory applies to you or it doesn't and if it doesn't apply properly one ought to ask why this is. Maybe the problem isn't the nature of the theory but your ability to apply it properly?


_either it's black or white because there is nothing else_


LeaT said:


> So what do you think avarice and envy are, exactly?


_already answered that on this thread and two others_


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Flatliner said:


> Can you explain your ideas and experiences that show how different people exist within the same type? What _is_ a type to you? How do you conceive of it?


I'm doing that in a book. It's not something I want to do in a forum.




Flatliner said:


> And this is bad, how?


Not bad in itself, but I don't want go through all that in a forum. That's why I've spent the last several years working on a book.




Flatliner said:


> So how'd you get that you're a 5 in the first place?


It was the one that most closely matched my actual experience, but it didn't match anywhere near perfectly. Nor did I expect it to. It's just a beginning point for exploration. I originally thought type 4 was the best match, but I found those issues weren't very relevant. The type 5 issues continue to be relevant.


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## Flatlander (Feb 25, 2012)

enneathusiast said:


> I'm doing that in a book. It's not something I want to do in a forum.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why'd you bother bringing up a topic if you're not going to be informative, answer questions, interact? To talk about a topic there has to be some common basis, and it's apparent that we probably look at the Enneagram very differently, so I asked out of curiosity to clarify discrepancies and perhaps attain meaningful intellectual connection on it.. but there's little point if you can't.

I don't know if I'm interested in buying your book.


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

Well I've just had a long line of pointless questioning from LeaT that went absolutely nowhere and you came in on the end of that. Sorry if your questions were sincere. Share your view of the Enneagram and ask away if you still feel up for it.


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