# What are the core difference between INTPs and ISFJs?



## gianni (Sep 9, 2015)

ISFJs and INTPs share the same cognitive functions and, from my understanding, each function is better in its own situation, and extroverted functions will be better when dealing with the outside world. So what is the main way to distinguish the types based on the strength of each function?

- Wouldn't both use Fe when making decisions regarding people and Ti when making decisions needing logic? Even if both can be used in certain situations, wouldn't one generally be (to a degree) more beneficial than the other based on the situation?

- From my understanding of Ne, doesn't it work along with Si (by remembering sensory details) to find connections? How can you tell which of the two are first in the functional stack? I think S vs. N descriptions in the book and online tend to distinguish Se from Ne (if so, it is not very useful here,) but wouldn't the extroverted function be more prevalent (to the outside world) regardless of its position in the functional stack?

- As for J/P, Myers explains that the descriptions are different for introverts (since I__Ps lead with their introverted Judging function, etc.) So how would an I__P be described really? I see in my notes from Gifts Differing, Myers said that I types and E types resemble each other in daily living, so it seems like the I/E preference shouldn't affect the J/P preference too much, right?

Wouldn't the two types appear the same if in a Ti_Si loop or would it differ for the two?

So is there a reliable way to decipher between the two types?

Please reference reliable sources if you can (This request might seem like a Te thing, but that may be because I don't see how Ti would be useful for personality stuff since it's a human-made classification and might not be able to be reasoned with pure logic)


----------



## Flamme et Citron (Aug 26, 2015)

They're completely different. You need to look at the function order. INTP leads with Ti, Ne as co-pilot. ISFJ leads with Si, Fe as co-pilot. 

ISFJ is very reliable, kind, values cooperation, modest, has a strong moral compass and is good at sizing people up. They have an internal "garden" that they don't share with others readily. 

INTP is a laid back highly imaginative introvert with strong deductive and abstract thinking skills.

Basically Sherlock and Watson, depending on which adaptation you're reading/watching.


----------



## Another Lost Cause (Oct 6, 2015)

Both types will respect and find the ways that each other thinks somewhat relateable, but their motivations and drives will be different. I knew a very intelligent ISFJ, and we became quick friends as we worked on various school projects together. There was a certain symmetry to the way we would think. I'd often notice that I'd bring up some kind of idea regarding something, and she could fill in the details and see how to make it impactful. It always felt like we were on the same page.


----------



## Tsubaki (Apr 14, 2015)

Flamme et Citron said:


> They're completely different. You need to look at the function order. INTP leads with Ti, Ne as co-pilot. ISFJ leads with Si, Fe as co-pilot.
> 
> ISFJ is very reliable, kind, values cooperation, modest, has a strong moral compass and is good at sizing people up. They have an internal "garden" that they don't share with others readily.
> 
> ...


I don't really agree with this to be honest. It's kind of superficial.

Of course, the function order plays a role but in the end, it's about how they use it. ISFJs can come off more Ne-ish than INTPs. I've noticed in general that SFJs vale their extroverted intuition a lot. A good friend of mine is an ESFJ and it sometimes feels almost like he's also an ENTP. So on the outside, we can be very similar and we have a similar thinking style but out motivations are different.
It's the same with INTPs and ISFJs. I have an ISFJ friend who really comes off as an INTP but when you get to know him more, you notice that he really values harmony around him and cares for other people.


----------



## Flamme et Citron (Aug 26, 2015)

Tsubaki said:


> I don't really agree with this to be honest. It's kind of superficial.
> 
> Of course, the function order plays a role but in the end, it's about how they use it. ISFJs can come off more Ne-ish than INTPs. I've noticed in general that SFJs vale their extroverted intuition a lot. A good friend of mine is an ESFJ and it sometimes feels almost like he's also an ENTP. So on the outside, we can be very similar and we have a similar thinking style but out motivations are different.
> It's the same with INTPs and ISFJs. I have an ISFJ friend who really comes off as an INTP but when you get to know him more, you notice that he really values harmony around him and cares for other people.


Every individual is different. The ISFJs I know don't come off as Ne whatsoever, they couldn't be any more opposite. Lol @ the subtle dig that INTPs don't care for other people.


----------



## Cesspool (Aug 8, 2014)

Flamme et Citron said:


> They're completely different. You need to look at the function order. INTP leads with Ti, Ne as co-pilot. ISFJ leads with Si, Fe as co-pilot.
> 
> ISFJ is very reliable, kind, values cooperation, modest, has a strong moral compass and is good at sizing people up. They have an internal "garden" that they don't share with others readily.
> 
> ...


Sherlock uses Se not Ne. He's SO Se that sometimes I think he's an ESTP rather than an ISTP, although he's definitely ISTP.


----------



## Tsubaki (Apr 14, 2015)

Flamme et Citron said:


> Every individual is different. The ISFJs I know don't come off as Ne whatsoever, they couldn't be any more opposite. Lol @ the subtle dig that INTPs don't care for other people.


How exactly do they come off then?
I usually see it in the way that both NTPs and SFJs use Ne and Si so they have a generally similar perception of the world and come to similar conclusions, however SFJs feel more comfortable with Si and sometimes struggle with Ne while it's the opposite for NTPs. 
The typical example is the ISFJ who gets extremely worried about all the negative possibilities in the future in the grip of Ne and the ENTP who fixates on one thing when in the grip of Si and isn't able anymore see other possibilities.


----------



## Caraxor (Apr 21, 2015)

Now I'm even more confused as to which one I use...


----------



## platorepublic (Dec 27, 2012)

Looking at the big picture... without going into details of cognitive functions. ISFJ is an *overseer* and INTP is a *rational*, as this forum suggested.

They are in different subgroups of the MBTI.

Overseers are generally more community oriented, while rationals are more knowledge oriented.


----------



## gianni (Sep 9, 2015)

Here are some examples of how I think I use Si and Ne, are they correct? And do they suggest stronger Ne or stronger Si? If Si, could it describe an INTP in a Ti_Si loop?

- Learning part of the material while taking a physics test [based on clues (Ne?) from the multiple choice options, other questions, and an understanding of how you've observed physics acting in the real world (Si?)]

- Having things to think about even when there is nothing interesting to sense in the moment, like on your bed staring at the ceiling when you're trying to sleep (Ne?)

- Being able to play a song in your head as if you were listening to it (Si?)

-Being able to finish someone's sentence or predict what they will say (Ne?) possibly because the few times he's talked to you, he has said something similar (Si?)

- (After general piano practice of other songs) being able to play a song on the piano by ear and from memory (Si?) even if you've never heard a piano version of the particular song (Ne?) and you can also change it up a bit (shifted key, minor key, jazz style) (Ne?) and improvise a transition to another song (Ne?).

- Seeing a place and immediately remembering a past event that happened there (Si), playing it out in your head and wondering what would have happened if you did something differently in that moment (Ne?)

- Zoning out hard core (Ne? or I in general?) because something you saw reminded you of something else (Si?)

- Predicting that your project group members are being too ambitious in their plans for the 3-week project and that you all wouldn't be able to finish in time (Ne?) because you know that realistically, based on past experience (Si), things come up that slow you down. And you don't want your freedom to be limited (Ne?) by having to meet those crazy deadlines.

- Predicting (Ne?) what could go wrong, what might sound ambiguous to readers/listeners, etc. realistically (Si?)

- Losing the meaning in a sentence because there is a word that has multiple meanings that all could work in the context (Ne?) or because you haven't seen the word before (Si?)

- Learning a language is relatively easy because you can learn/understand words by finding how they relate and have similar patterns (Ne?) to other words that you've heard (Si?), you might also just memorize them (Si). And you can pick up the accent and sound like a native (Si?)

- Having a hard time figuring out your personality type because you are so open to the possibility of each type (Ne?) and because you can remember examples of your past (Si?) in which you used the cognitive function or preference that you are studying.

- Being very willing to consider new ideas/possibilities (Ne?) to the point that it's hard to know what is even real, do we live in a dream? The Matrix? It's hard to know. You know that realistically, things have proved you wrong in the past (Si) and you don't understand everything.

- The only thing that you are confident about is that you can't be confident because there are so many possibilities (Ne?). But you feel somewhat more confident with things that have a similar pattern (Ne) to something you have sensed before (Si).

- Though very open to new ideas (Ne?) you are hesitant to do things that are not familiar in at least some ways. (Si)

- Before doing totally new things, you like to take time to foresee how something will happen (Ne) by comparing it to how your internal sense of how things really are and how they have been (Si) so that you have an idea of what to expect.

- Dislike making decisions because your mind brings up the possibilities that could change the factors (Ne?) and you see how each situation could be good in a way.

- You probably wouldn't mind having the same or a similar simple lunch every day (Si) partly because it's not worth the time that it would take away from more interesting things (Ne?)

- Having many interests because you think of how cool it would be to be good at each thing (Ne?) but you want to be at least somewhat good at something before letting anyone else see (Si)

- Dislike the idea of doing the same thing repeatedly for work every day (Ne) but sometimes it's fun to use skills that you have learned (Si) in creative ways (Ne)


----------

