# Introverted Thinking vs Extraverted Thinking



## Space Cat

vel said:


> Do you think all people are aware of how they truly are and answer the questions on the test to correspond exactly to their true personality?


Actually, i'm thinking this not just in terms of the scores but i do realise there are many, myself included who seem to have a preference for a certain function group. Like i mentioned a preference for Ti and Te. Apparently, i'm not the only one and i heard it was common for thinkers.
I have this friend who is so Fi and Fe that i wasn't sure which one was she. Turns out she's Fi tertiary but with a strangely high Fe.
Sometimes, it might be very likely for someone to answer their tests in a biased manner. So maybe the answer is yes, we might be more likely to be biased in answering questions in tests.
I did this experiment once and asked a few friends/family on what they thought of me as a fun survey. Some of their answers were the total opposite of myself (quite ESFP lol) but it really was an eye opening experience. This is something like the Johari's window.


----------



## Ray Mabry

CeresZal said:


> Actually, i'm thinking this not just in terms of the scores but i do realise there are many, myself included who seem to have a preference for a certain function group. Like i mentioned a preference for Ti and Te. Apparently, i'm not the only one and i heard it was common for thinkers.
> I have this friend who is so Fi and Fe that i wasn't sure which one was she. Turns out she's Fi tertiary but with a strangely high Fe.
> Sometimes, it might be very likely for someone to answer their tests in a biased manner. So maybe the answer is yes, we might be more likely to be biased in answering questions in tests.
> I did this experiment once and asked a few friends/family on what they thought of me as a fun survey. Some of their answers were the total opposite of myself (quite ESFP lol) but it really was an eye opening experience. This is something like the Johari's window.


When one generalizes the functions Fi is basically a trend in feeling based on the experience of the subject and Fe is a trend in feeling regardless of the experience of the subject and leaning more towards feeling based off of generally accepted rules of the society one is in. Personal Morals/Ethics vs Social Ethics.
These two types share a lot of similar output and common ground due to The fact that they share being Feeling functions but I would bet that if she was truly to look inside herself and observe the trend in her behaviors and thoughts related to her feelings she'd notice more clearly that she is one or the other.


----------



## Intermundia

An INTP will dissect things according to their subjective logical framework, whatever that may be. This framework is all the INTP knows and will scorch the earth to assert it's validity.

ENTJ's similarly will be extremely hard to persuade but insofar that it is contrary to what is objectively verifiable. Being J types they will usually tend to frame questions around evidence that can be clearly seen by both parties.


----------



## possiBri

I know when I take the test it's hard to not analyze it and say, "Oh, this is a question measuring my T (or F)" so I feel like my answers are skewed towards by expected answers as an ENTP, definitely bothers me that it might not be as accurate...


----------



## Iain

Hi -
With introversion now being diagnosed as Schizoid -a personality disorder - may we suppose that extroversion is also an IPD? Although, if you're an exhibitionist schizoid (extroverted introvert) you could (may) enjoy the benefits of both personality types without the psychological consequences of loving your label as yourself in a dualistic mindset of mutual antagonism.

Re kdm1984's assertion that INTJ's may work in a linear fashion A to B , B to C, etc etc. As an INTJ I tend to work A to Z, because if you arrange the alphabet in a circular fashion then A and Z are next to each other. Consequently, it's easier to work laterally, it's quicker, and avoids many of the limitations of linear thinking and empiracism.

Regards


----------



## darude11

Thinking at all is judging process. Judging processes are here for creating structures. Thinking is based on logic. So we can say that Thinking is creating structure based on logic.
Introverted means that you don't share it (that much) with others, while extroverted means opposite. So if we combine it all, we get:
Ti - Creating logic structure In your mind
Te - Creating logic structure Out of your mind
In other words: Ti = analyzing, Te = organizing


----------



## myexplodingcat

Can't give firsthand explanation:
Te: Wants to see something done in a logical way.

Can give pathetically detailed firsthand explanation (as it's my dominant):
Ti: Doesn't give a flying nut about what's accomplished... just wants to understand things for itself to meet any future needs and the current need for something interesting to do. 

Extremely skilled at articulating things and finding the right words to do so (especially when coupled with Si, which makes an excellent reference system). 

Can figure out problems easily in head. 

Forms systems of knowledge, and knows when a piece of new info doesn't fit--so either it's wrong, or the system of stuff already known is flawed somewhere.

Meticulous and sometimes anal about information description/information explanation in a way that drives Te users bonkers.



Intermundia said:


> An INTP will dissect things according to their subjective logical framework, whatever that may be. This framework is all the INTP knows and will scorch the earth to assert it's validity.


Yowch! I'd better say hi to you before we INTPs rip you to shreds.

But even less forgivable than your jab is that apostrophe in your "its." Right now, you're saying this:

"This framework is all the INTP knows and will scorch the earth to assert it is validity."

Er.

"I at least want to be slayed by someone who actually knows how to hold his sword correctly!" --loose quote from Cohen the Barbarian; the Color of Magic movie


----------



## MCRTS

My test says that my Te and Ti functions are both moderate.


----------



## AbioticPrime

> Yowch! I'd better say hi to you before we INTPs rip you to shreds.
> 
> But even less forgivable than your jab is that apostrophe in your "its." Right now, you're saying this:
> 
> "This framework is all the INTP knows and will scorch the earth to assert it is validity."
> 
> Er.
> 
> "I at least want to be slayed by someone who actually knows how to hold his sword correctly!" --loose quote from Cohen the Barbarian; the Color of Magic movie


I wouldn't consider that a jab; more so a metaphoric hyperbole to explain an intangible idea.

I'm wondering if anybody can provide an analysis of how a Te user would approach mathematics vs. a Ti user. Let's use basic calculus.


----------



## TaylorS

A note to some posters in this thread, having both Te and Ti is impossible because they are incompatible, they are NOT skill sets you can exercise, they are ways of relating with the world.

Te = externalized concepts: communally accepted rules like the Scientific Method, Logic, etc. It is about the use and manipulation of bare facts and concepts.

Ti = Internalized concepts: a personal inner "logic" unique to the person. It is about abstract models for which facts are mering a means of validation.

Jung contrasts the 2 by comparing Darwin, a Te Dom, with Kant, a Ti Dom.


----------



## HandiAce

One of the big things that I see divide Te from Ti is that Te users do not like to make decisions unless empirical evidence points to a certain answer. Someone with Te will instantly agree with the statement "How can what you say mean anything when you have no tangible proof to explain your reasoning?"

I have clashed with many people for that reason.


----------



## sitodocambia

The cognitive functions imitate one another on the surface but provide their users with very different internal experiences and motivations. Jungian and MBTI psychology are based on the internal world and how it relates to the external. Thus, the cognitive functions cannot be externally defined; they can only be partially explained in terms of behavior that tends to indicate that a particular function is being used.


----------



## Portal

Grim said:


> I suspect the current function theory is presented simply because it was there to be presented. I've noticed some anomalies within personality groups that I think is best explained buy them possessing radically different functional stacks than the theory suggests or maybe even allows for.
> 
> For instance I read other ENTJs writing and recognize some similarities... other ENTJs read me and have no problem seeing me as ENTJ, but I'm just not the same on some level. Most of the time people recognizing me as an ENTJ as a "Well.. he must be because there's simply no other extroverted thinker he could be" feel to it. A self analysis of my writing style tells me that I often express myself in a Ti fashion.
> 
> I think it might have been a childhood development thing. I pushed my emotions to the bottom of the barrel and honed my ability to read people and situations, and see what made them tic, how to break them down, etc. Perhaps it was a defensive measure... or perhaps it's just the way I was born.


First off when people argue they always need to use both Ti and Te imo. Ti to build the structure slowly while Te to support with empirical data for a stronger argument. Second, I think many have acquire the use of both Ti and Te in their life time mostly I bet is due to the school system that we have. Also want to point out that it's a spectrum and what makes it your "main" function is the fact you resort to it the first and most of the time.


----------



## caffeine_buff

the image that flashed into my head from the discussion: 

Te: 









Ti:









courtesy: Te being out of its mind :tongue:


----------



## Letmethink...

The best way to improve one's introvert thinking, is to spend time with a person who's dominant function is Ti. Being an INFJ who spent most of her life with an INTP brother, I know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Functianalyst

scarygirl said:


> I always thought there was a point in which Te and Ti look alike.
> 
> What are they different in?


The difference is as it is for all function-attitudes. Most people claiming to understand them are basing their understanding on MBTI principles, not Jungian principles. 

Once and for all folks contrary to what you may have learned through MBTI, *”IT’S THE ATTIUTUDE….*, not the function that you should focus on when referring to Jung’s cognitive functions or function-attitudes:


> In the following pages I shall attempt a general description of the types, *and my first concern must be with the two general types I have termed introverted and extraverted. But, in addition, I shall also try to give a certain characterization of those special types whose particularity is due to the fact that his most differentiated function plays the principal role in an individual's adaptation or orientation to life.* The former I would term general attitude types, since they are distinguished by the direction of general interest or libido movement, while the latter I would call function-types.
> 
> The general-attitude types, as I have pointed out more than once, are differentiated by their particular attitude to the object. The introvert's attitude to the object is an abstracting one; at bottom, he is always facing the problem of how libido can be withdrawn from the object, as though an attempted ascendancy on. the part of the object had to be continually frustrated. The extravert, on the contrary, maintains a positive relation to the object. To such an extent does he affirm its importance that his subjective attitude is continually being orientated by, and related to the object. An fond, the object can never have sufficient value; for him, therefore, its importance must always be paramount.


Jung’s entire Psychological Type theory surrounds the consciousness and unconsciousness of the E/I. That is followed by the general application of judging/perceiving, then narrowed down to a particular introverted or extraverted judging or perceiving function. 



bogdan said:


> The theories says you can't use them both, yet, when you need to quantify or express your internal thoughts, what function do you use? Ne is the only one? For a T dominant isn't Te the function used to materialise your thoughts, to have a practical use int the environment? Or I in this case I'm just confusing Ni and Si for Ti?


We all have an extraverting and introverting judging, and an extraverting and introverting perceiving function in our make-up. What I use my Ti for, the ESTJ will use their Fi to do the same thing. What they use their Te for, I use my Fe. Of course they’re not at the same level but they are used for the same thing. The same as Se/Ne and Si/Ni. 

If thinking functions were the same, why would there be a need for 8 function-attitudes, when the 4 functions (thinking, feeling, sensing, intuiting) would work wherein you one may swap out introverting and extraverting the function? This dilemma continues to arise simply because those claiming to understand function-attitudes cannot comprehend that using MBTI tools cannot apply to function-attitudes or cognitive functions. MBTI refers to the function order T-S-N-F as ESTJ or ISTP, or T-N-S-F as ENTJ or INTP. Can someone refer me to a description where ESTJ and ISTP or ENTJ and INTP remotely look a-like? If not that should tell you that Te and Ti have nothing in common anymore than Ne-Ni, Se-Si, or Fe-Fi. In fact as I have referred to more than once, von Franz says that although Te and Fi are compensatory opposites, Fe and Fi dominant users have completely nothing in common.


CeresZal said:


> Then why is it so that countless of people who rely heavily on T seem to not only score highly on both Ti and Te but actually relate to both?
> I don't just see this in heavy T users but heavy F users as well as heavy S users. I was told that it was normal but the cognitive functions don't say so. Strange it is.


Do we really need to answer that question?


----------



## kebrouchard

Introverts rule


----------



## JungyesMBTIno

Te is sort of like the transmission of Fi ideals into objective concepts that can be oriented to formulaic "nothing but" statements. It looks rather pragmatic and intellectual. Sort of like saying "that's ridiculous (coming from Fi)" and then converted this assessment to kind of a stereotypically objective explanation based in facts (principles can be taken as fact) and ideals/hypothetical cause-and-effects in kind of a linearly reasoned manner.

Fe is sort of like the transmission of Ti forms into objective meanings or responses on the basis of how one stands in their values in relationship to someone else (or something of culturally-held significance). Sort of like the people who might laugh "with you" cordially to imply that their subjective ideas of reality and rapport efforts are aligning with aspects of the other person that they "get" - implying they think enough alike to be trusted.


----------



## Trajan117

Ok as an Idealist I'm not as familiar with how thinking works but I'll take a shot at explaing it. Please feel free to correct me. My understanding is like this: And extroverted thinker and an introverted thinker are both tasked with creating some sort of device that is needed to solve a very pressing problem. The extroverted thinker will look at all the available simple machines and building blocks that exist and try to make the device work using those resources. The introverted thinker however, rather than forcing the machine to conform to the way other machines are designed will instead allow the potential machine to speak to him and tell him what is needed and this results in the designing a totally new resource or using a previously unused material to make create the machine. Just like if we were talking about ancient Egypt and pyramid building, an extroverted thinker would think of easier ways to make the sand sleds slide smother to move the blocks where as the introveted thinker would end up designing the wheel and throw out the use of sleds in general.


----------



## littleblackdress

Te vs. Ti in a debate. At some point, after Ti has conceded the point, Te says: Okay, I WON - SHUT UP ALREADY!!!


----------

