# How do you spot SJ's in the real world?



## Oprah (Feb 5, 2014)

I often see people complaining about SJs on the forums, but I don't understand why... 


like - 
"Ugh my mom is SUCH an SJ!"
"I have so many SJ coworkers!"
"I can't stand SJs!"


What? I don't get it. 


(a) The people never explain _what it is they find annoying in the first place._
(b) How do you even know when someone is an SJ? 

The thing SJs share is introverted sensing... it's an introverted function, so how to people have this _"SJ-dar"_ where they can just pick them out and be like, "Oh my coworker is _such_ an SJ!"


I don't get it :/


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## snapdragons (Feb 1, 2011)

I hear you! There are an awful lot of horror stories about ISTJ mothers...my own mother is nuts but I sincerely doubt she is an ISTJ since she is so extroverted and jumps to her emotional states a lot, but I digress.

For me, as an SJ I can spot another SJ just based on how they behave or react to certain things. No SJ will be comfortable saying they are "loosey goosey" or that use impressions and symbolism to get a sense of how things are going and to keep their options "open." You know, not like open but that "open" we J's don't adhere to.

Side note--- I think it's easy for people to complain about people they find annoying to be SJ's because SJ's are in reality, the most common among all MBTI's. It's easier to say people with irritating tendencies _must_ be an SJ because there are so many of us around. IME, irritating tendencies and annoying people exist in all types, just as all great characteristics exist in all types. I've come across ISTJ men I thought were complete asswipes and ENFP women who were calm, collected, and logical. Why can't people stop treating the MBTI as some sort of Chinese horoscope?


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## Shale (Jan 17, 2012)

What do I think about others complaining about SJ parents? I think they should get over their tantrum and grow up. They won't fully know what it is like to be a parent and be responsible for the life of another until they become a parent themselves. Berating others personality type is no different than bullying another person in order to gain a sense of superiority.

My 11 year old called me EVIL the other day b/c he was being a couch potato, it was time for him to move his lazy butt and get some exercise. We went for a walk and he growled the whole time. So here are the complaints I bet my son will have against me: "Omg she made me do things I didn't want to do! All I wanted to do was be left alone to play my video games and she MADE me go for a walk with her." "Omg I can't believe she took away my privileges because I back-talked her." "Omg my mom was so EVIL she puts vegetables on my plate and expected me to eat them!"

Really children, get over it. lol


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## moonlight_echo (May 15, 2011)

Spotting an SJ: They usually have an attractive walk. The females do this sassy hair flip thing.
They carry rulers around and attack people with them.

If you talk back to them they put you in time out.


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## 90626 (Apr 17, 2014)

How do you know when someone is an SJ? 

I can usually spot a guardian by their style of dress. It tends to be rather conservative and tidy.
They tend to avoid anything provocative, trendy or bright. Usually they look pulled together, polished and "classic".
Because guardians use Si, their clothing may have some reference to the past or be a little nostalgic or vintage/heirloom.

Guardian women like the ISFJ and ESFJ might be a little more creative and expressive in their clothing choices and wear softer fabrics and more feminine clothing. Guardians in general tend to be very aware of the role their gender plays in society and their style of dress will reflect that. There is sometimes delicate flow to the way ISFJ/ESFJ women dress.

The details of their grooming and style will be tended to meticulously.


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## Coburn (Sep 3, 2010)

I don't think you'd be able to spot an SJ by sight alone unless whatever it is they were doing was very cog function telling.


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## libellule (May 10, 2014)

Mollusk said:


> How do you know when someone is an SJ?
> 
> I can usually spot a guardian by their style of dress. It tends to be rather conservative and tidy.
> They tend to avoid anything provocative, trendy or bright. Usually they look pulled together, polished and "classic".
> ...


I agree with this. I see this description in my own ways, and I've noticed it around me, too. 

I am able to get a vague sense of if a person is SJ or not if I am engaged in discussion with them -- and as snapdragons said, by a person's reactions to certain concepts. Such concepts include plans for the future / discussion about decisions in general.

As a side note, I find this question very interesting.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

Shale said:


> What do I think about others complaining about SJ parents? I think they should get over their tantrum and grow up. They won't fully know what it is like to be a parent and be responsible for the life of another until they become a parent themselves. Berating others personality type is no different than bullying another person in order to gain a sense of superiority.
> 
> My 11 year old called me EVIL the other day b/c he was being a couch potato, it was time for him to move his lazy butt and get some exercise. We went for a walk and he growled the whole time. So here are the complaints I bet my son will have against me: "Omg she made me do things I didn't want to do! All I wanted to do was be left alone to play my video games and she MADE me go for a walk with her." "Omg I can't believe she took away my privileges because I back-talked her." "Omg my mom was so EVIL she puts vegetables on my plate and expected me to eat them!"
> 
> Really children, get over it. lol


Just because you think sitting around and doing nothing is a bad thing docent mean it's bad for everyone.

Once your kid starts living on there own there just going to live how they want, possibly out of resentment.


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## Jonn (Mar 17, 2014)

^ You are a great example

Hehe! I just always get reminded of divergent. The abnegation guys, contra the erudites. Oftenly it seems to me that it'll either be an NT type or an NF type whose complaining about SJ behaviour.
My guess on this is that our behaviour shines out, because it is the opposite of their own. They discover it, because it isn't like their own behaviour. Again the reason why they complain would be of either fear, disbelief, unsecurity or just because they don't enjoy it.

Great fun seeing that some people are capable of neglecting the feely touchy ways


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## Shale (Jan 17, 2012)

Bahburah said:


> Just because you think sitting around and doing nothing is a bad thing docent mean it's bad for everyone.
> 
> Once your kid starts living on there own there just going to live how they want, possibly out of resentment.


That's fine and I'm unmoved by your response. Adults living on their own have the right to do as they so choose. I'm sure if I loaded up the pantry with Twinkies they would stuff their faces until they bloated like the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man. What you fail to understand is that while they are under my roof I am held responsible for their behavior and well-being. I take that duty quite seriously, especially considering I have been a Lay Guardian Ad Litem for the last 6 years and have seen conditions in which no child should live.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

Shale said:


> That's fine and I'm unmoved by your response. Adults living on their own have the right to do as they so choose. I'm sure if I loaded up the pantry with Twinkies they would stuff their faces until they bloated like the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man. What you fail to understand is that while they are under my roof I am held responsible for their behavior and well-being. I take that duty quite seriously, especially considering I have been a Lay Guardian Ad Litem for the last 6 years and have seen conditions in which no child should live.


Yea I get that, and your a good parent for having that sort of attitude.

But I mean your meant to provide, not control your child's life.

Yet again I've never had a kid so I can't really say.


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## OutOfThisWorld (Nov 4, 2013)

Shale said:


> What do I think about others complaining about SJ parents? I think they should get over their tantrum and grow up. They won't fully know what it is like to be a parent and be responsible for the life of another until they become a parent themselves. Berating others personality type is no different than bullying another person in order to gain a sense of superiority.
> 
> My 11 year old called me EVIL the other day b/c he was being a couch potato, it was time for him to move his lazy butt and get some exercise. We went for a walk and he growled the whole time. So here are the complaints I bet my son will have against me: "Omg she made me do things I didn't want to do! All I wanted to do was be left alone to play my video games and she MADE me go for a walk with her." "Omg I can't believe she took away my privileges because I back-talked her." "Omg my mom was so EVIL she puts vegetables on my plate and expected me to eat them!"
> 
> Really children, get over it. lol


I can totally relate. I don't have kids, but I'm a tutor that deals with K-6th grade students and the younger children are always telling me that I'm mean because I tell them that they need to stop goofing around and do their homework. Or when I give them work after they are done with their homework so they can practice and strengthen their weak subject areas. Or when I refuse to give them the answer even though they beg for it and make them work out the problem instead.

Teaching children to be a good person is a thankless job and I have much appreciation for parents that are patient and set appropriate boundaries for their children.


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## OutOfThisWorld (Nov 4, 2013)

Bahburah said:


> Yea I get that, and your a good parent for having that sort of attitude.
> 
> But I mean your meant to provide, not control your child's life.
> 
> Yet again I've never had a kid so I can't really say.


I think you are over-reaching for things that are not in Shale's post. Controlling your child and making sure they don't grow up into assholes are two different things. Providing for your children doesn't just mean putting over a roof over their heads or food in front of them. It also means to nurture their emotional well-being. 

Being a *good* parent for your children means setting boundaries, encouraging them, and making sure they don't pick up bad habits in order for them to grow into a confident, productive, healthy adult. 

Sometimes you have to be the bad guy. Sometimes you have to make your children do things that are good for them even though they don't want to (like not staying in all the time playing video games or making them eat their vegetables). Sometimes you have to punish them. Being a parent is hard work. Hearing your own child say thoughtless things about you to your face even though you are trying to make sure they turn out okay hurts a lot. And still you suck it up and put on a smile because you know that what you are doing will help your children grow up into a fantastic adult.

Ex. Allow them to play video games all day -> Stagnant mind, closed off from society, reduced social skills and awareness, become physically unhealthy

Ex. Not giving them a balanced diet -> Delayed physical and mental growth, aggravates any genetic predispositions, increases chances of obesity, diabetes, and other health problems

Ex. Not disciplining them when they exhibit bad behaviors -> Adopts bad behavior that could lead to consequences

Many children think they know it all, but that is only their immature ego talking. Children adopt bad behaviors because their parents refuse to set boundaries. I know this because I work with a diverse group of children of all ages on a regular basis. They think they know everything, try to correct you, and act all that, when in actuality, they don't know much at all. Some of them are pretty bad and that is due to their parents not disciplining their children.

Maybe when you have children, you'll realize that in order to be a good parent, you'll have to make tough decisions. I'm in my mid-20s and if I ever have children, I want them to turn out good, so I'll be forced to do things that makes my heart bleed and cry, but I know that it'll benefit them in the long run.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

UglierBetty said:


> I often see people complaining about SJs on the forums, but I don't understand why...
> 
> 
> like -
> ...


Me either. I'm an SJ's SJ, and I can't always tell from appearance. If I hang around you long enough, I'll pick up on it, but SJs come in all flavors. I know some that dress crazy, others that act crazy, some are staid, some are progressive, some have tattoos and piercings, others wear wingtips - it just varies.

The reality is that there is a caste system in use on online forums. There is also an over-representation of intuitives - mainly because so many are mis-typed. I thoroughly enjoy threads that have you state your type in the text of the post. These posts can be read a year or so later and reveal who really is unsure of their type. It is also humorous to see who migrates to being an intuitive due to a perceived increase in social status.

Probably the most of these parent rants are because people latch onto portions of SJ descriptions of behavioral tendencies, and then correlate behavior to type. This results in every parent being an SJ because they made you do chores, clean your room, do your homework, etc. I've known kids and their parents and have seen the kids type their parents as SJs, only to find out later that their parent was an NF!

Bottom line: If we try to link behavior with cognitive functions (as a rule), then mis-typing will occur.


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## Big Red (Jul 9, 2013)

This is subtle, but.... stopping for every stop sign, and coming to a complete stop before making a right turn at a red light (assuming there's no sign saying one is not allowed to make said right turn. In that case, we'll just wait impatiently for the light to turn green.). Consistent upholding of Law & Order, even in small and (seemingly) insignificant ways, is one of my calling cards.


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## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Big Red said:


> This is subtle, but.... stopping for every stop sign, and coming to a complete stop before making a right turn at a red light (assuming there's no sign saying one is not allowed to make said right turn. In that case, we'll just wait impatiently for the light to turn green.). Consistent upholding of Law & Order, even in small and (seemingly) insignificant ways, is one of my calling cards.


Then I'm not an SJ...


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## Big Red (Jul 9, 2013)

I wouldn't call it an absolute, of course. Should've couched my statement when I made it initally. It's an indicator of sorts, but its absence doesn't automatically mean the person in question isn't an SJ.


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## Velocity (Dec 8, 2013)

Its easy. Tell them something they didnt plan to hear from you, they will always heard what you said and they will always ask "what, what did you say ?".


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## Surreal Snake (Nov 17, 2009)

They will be the ones making your meals, doing your laundry. Paying for your education etc. I find SJs put down a lot as parents on the Internet. I have learned a great many practical things from relatives who were SJs. I find they have excellent common sense generally amongst other things that have helped me throughout life.


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## Sabrah (Aug 6, 2013)

To take on such a wild feat, you need to be well equipped. Be sure to have a good pair of binoculars, enough food, water and supplies to last a few days, and be prepared for the worst. Walk into a random crowd of people, squint your eyes at them until they start nervously laughing/running away. Be prepared to run a few miles chasing them or maybe even outrun them with a car. Once you take them captive, give them an apple. If they only like green sour apples then they are SJs!

Good luck. Be sure to wear sunscreen and a hat so you don't get burned. Stay well hydrated, and don't leave food out or you may attract NFs to your campsite.


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