# Masking the dominant subtype with the second instinct



## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

I have a theory that people can often look more like their second instinct as a means of protection or to avoid the vulnerable feelings associated with the dominant subtypes. some common examples I see are
- the childlike, less trusting Self Preservation 2 drawing on the more confident, charismatic, authoritative and expansive energy of secondary Social 2.
- a softer, more cheerful Sexual 3 leaning on the colder, more competitive Social 3 when they need to put on a strong face and appear more competent (Carol Lockwood from The Vampire Diaries is a _perfect_ example of this).
- the more immature, exuberant, naive Sexual 7 drawing on the more grounded, pragmatic and productive energy of secondary Sp 7
- an Sp/Sx 6 with strong Sexual who tries to act tough and counter phobic when he's really an anxious softy (could also work for So/Sx 6 to a lesser extent)
- the more submissive, doormat-y Sexual 9 leaning on secondary Self Preservation 9 to establish stronger boundaries, put emotional distance between themselves and others and better attend to physiological needs (Carol Peletier from The Walking Dead is a great example of this).


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

It makes sense. 

I'm not completely sold but I often tend to do what you wrote about sx/sp Nines, protecting my wimpy doormattiness by being more detached from the world, not getting really close to anyone and being more focused on taking care of myself, of seeking the comfort I need whether in a healthy or unhealthy way. Especially in lack of any sx dreams or bonds or when dangerously heading or camping into 6-disintegration, probably what you saw on a superficial level. I feel very sp-ish a lot of the time, although not being one and being passive, dreamy and peace and depth seeking as ever, but I don't think it's just a matter of self-protection as much as the fact that sx feelings come and go in waves.

Interesting theory.


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## Splash Shin (Apr 7, 2011)

If I am in fact a sexual first-which i think i may be- i do this for sure. I repress my sx side in favor for my sp.
It's probably why i score so close on Sx and Sp, and why I have much trouble deciding which I am.
Repressing the sx side may have lead to development of the sp.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Is this your attempt to explore why sometimes the behavior of the supposed subtype still doesn't match the description? Isn't easier to admit that it may not always be perfect like that?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Entropic said:


> Is this your attempt to explore why sometimes the behavior of the supposed subtype still doesn't match the description? Isn't easier to admit that it may not always be perfect like that?


no, it has little to do with me actually. it's more of a trend I realize first watching fictional characters, then noticed the same trend in reality.


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> - an Sp/Sx 6 with strong Sexual who tries to act tough and counter phobic when he's really an anxious softy (could also work for So/Sx 6 to a lesser extent)


Sounds like me.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> no, it has little to do with me actually. it's more of a trend I realize first watching fictional characters, then noticed the same trend in reality.


I wasn't inferring to your self-typing, but just generally.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Entropic said:


> I wasn't inferring to your self-typing, but just generally.


to some degree, yes, but also because it makes sense on a logical level that a softer personality who felt vulnerable would learn to draw upon a more hard edged side of their personality as a shield (and in the case of Sp/So 2, where secondary Social 2 is a much stronger, more formidable character, this would be very easy)


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Entropic said:


> I wasn't inferring to your self-typing, but just generally.


you just need a seme to dominate you


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## Zamyatin (Jun 10, 2014)

Eh, I feel a more promising way to explain incongruities in subtype theory is by arguing that certain instincts are counter-type (for lack of a better term) for specific cognitive functions, as well as Enneagram types. If your instinct is counter-type for both your strongest functions and your Enneagram type it's going to seem quite weak, especially when you're talking about the secondary instinct which is already weaker.

For example, I'd argue both the social and sexual instincts are counter-type for INTJs, due to lack of extroverted feeling, weak introverted feeling and Ni's tendency towards lethargy. If you're an INTJ and you have those instincts, they're going to be somewhat subdued relative to say, ESFP. This becomes especially noticeable if you're talking about, for example, an INTJ 1 sp/sx -- while the self-preservation instinct will be rather obvious, the sexual instinct can be hard to identify because it's counter-type to both type 1 and INTJ. Similarly, a type 8 INTJ would have difficulty identifying a secondary social instinct. Counter-type would also subdue the instinct somewhat if it's in the primary position, an Sx/Sp INTJ 6 would be likely to mistype as Sp/Sx, as the sexual instinct would be so weakened compared to the secondary self-pres instinct it could be hard to tell which is stronger.

The only flaw I've noticed is the instincts don't neatly fit into a counter-type model for MBTI, since the strength of a function varies a lot from type to type depending on its place in one's cognitive stacking as well as how compatible a function is with the instinct. The social instinct in an INFJ would be stronger/more readily visible because of auxiliary Fe use than in an INTP or ENTP, but still less pronounced than in an ESFJ. There's more variation than the one counter-type/two type compliant model used in the Enneagram.

Needs work, but I'd categorize it as something like this. Yes, there's overlap. They're in descending order, the functions most compatible with the function at the top and least at the bottom.

Social instinct functions;
Fe
Ne
Fi
Te

Sexual instinct functions;
Fi
Se
Ne
Si

Self preservation functions;
Si
Ti
Te
Ni

Counter-type is any function not on a list, i.e. Fe is counter-type for the sexual instinct.

Needs a lot of work of course, but it fits with my observations in a very general sense. Not quite a system, at least not yet, but it helps explain why some people can have such a difficult time sorting out which instinct is dominant in themselves, or the seeming absence of a secondary instinct. It's based off of the observation that certain function preferences seem to correlate with certain function preferences (e.g. Si with self-pres, Fe with social) as well as the fact that instincts seem a bit weaker/more controlled when counter-type for their Enneagram type -- the social instinct is less pronounced in 9s and 8s or sexual in 1s and 5s than social is in, for example, 3s and 2s or sexual in 7s and 8s.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> to some degree, yes, but also because it makes sense on a logical level that a softer personality who felt vulnerable would learn to draw upon a more hard edged side of their personality as a shield (and in the case of Sp/So 2, where secondary Social 2 is a much stronger, more formidable character, this would be very easy)


But how is that different from it being their dominant instinct? How are you making that distinction?



Swordsman of Mana said:


> you just need a seme to dominate you


I think I'm doing fine without.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Entropic said:


> I think I'm doing fine without.


lmao! sorry that was for @Kito :laughing:


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> lmao! sorry that was for @_Kito_ :laughing:


My response is the same as that guy's. :tongue:


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## SuperNova85 (Feb 21, 2011)

I relate to this primarily because I don't have too many Sx dominant people in my life to relate to right now (actually none on a regular basis), so I tend to tone it down for people so they won't think I'm nuts. I'm slow to consciously reveal my Sx qualities upfront anyway.

I also tend to do this when my Sx needs are being frustrated, at which point I become increasingly hedonistic. My attitude is sort of like: "Since I can't do the things I'm passionate about, I'll do everything I can to extinguish the fire inside of me until I can".


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

I've heard that you can actually hide your dominant instinct and front the secondary. I think this is universal between the types, however. Some aren't more likely to do it, and it doesn't give them other qualities. You just see that instinct at work more. Or that was my impression about how it works.


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## TurtleQueen (Nov 8, 2014)

I think that the second instinct I have impacts how I come across to people. I relate more strongly to the 6 so/sx description on the thread than descriptions of 6 so that don't take the second instinct into account. I think that my second instinct is fairly strong and that my last instinct is really weak, so I may relate more to particular descriptions of 6 so/sx for that reason.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> I've heard that you can actually hide your dominant instinct and front the secondary. I think this is universal between the types, however. Some aren't more likely to do it, and it doesn't give them other qualities. You just see that instinct at work more. Or that was my impression about how it works.


and my argument is
1) it _does_ give them other qualities, because it's a different subtype influencing one's personality.
2) it's often a defense mechanism, consciously or unconsciously

other times, the person just has a strong second instinct.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> and my argument is
> 1) it _does_ give them other qualities, because it's a different subtype influencing one's personality.
> 2) it's often a defense mechanism, consciously or unconsciously
> 
> other times, the person just has a strong second instinct.


OK.

You place far more emphasis on the subtypes actually altering personality than I do.
It may be a defense mechanism. How would you distinguish this from a strong second instinct?

Also, do you have any real life examples of this? Or is it just based on fictional characters?


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

Zamyatin said:


> Needs work, but I'd categorize it as something like this. Yes, there's overlap. They're in descending order, the functions most compatible with the function at the top and least at the bottom.
> 
> Social instinct functions;
> Fe
> ...


I'd say more

Social function:
- Fe
- Ni
- Ne
(Fi and Te do not strike me as Social at all. Ni seems more Social because it sees the big picture of how everyone fits into the whole)

Self Preservation:
- Te
- Si
(Ti doesn't seem all that related to any instinct)

Sexual: 
- Fi
- Se


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> I'd say more
> 
> Social function:
> - Fe
> ...


I kinda associate Fi to Sp myself, but then I'm kinda biased as an Sp and Fi-dominant I guess. =P


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

How common is this really though? What about people who don't really seem to have a secondary instinct, would they switch it up or not?


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## Golden Rose (Jun 5, 2014)

Kink said:


> I kinda relate Fi to Sp mself, but then I'm kinda biased as an Sp and Fi-dominant I guess. =P


Same. Sp is strongly Fi and Si to me although Fi can fit snugly into Sx territory as well.

And no matter whether I'm sp/sx (very likely) or sx/sp this theory still appeals and applies to me. Damn.


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## Kitfool (Oct 24, 2012)

I definitely think this is true to an extent. The dominant instinct is vulnerable. The Secondary is comfortable. We don't necessarily want to show the world our vulnerable instinct. I tend to test as sx dom but I don't feel that way. My sx is not vulnerable. I am perfectly comfortable with it and enjoy it but it is not the be all end all. Social stuff, I obsess over secretly so no one knows I'm like that. It is almost like a secret indulgence and I feel guilty about it, or exposed.


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## Nephilibata (Jan 21, 2015)

Hm. The comment you made for 9 in OP really makes sense for me. Might explain why I feel like I live more SP/SX atm but relate to SX/SP things much more than SP/SX.

It doesn't help that I don't actually know any SX-doms or many SP-doms, so I have no basis of comparison...

edit: oh my god, I'm just watching a compilation of Carol Peletier vids and this is. Exactly what I feel I'd be like if in that situation. I've defs acted like that in defense of people (not, you know, the killing, but being fiercely protective of people without fearing for my own safety).

Do you think being more aware of a certain instinct points to that being the dom or aux?


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