# 500-1,500 POSTS, and they still DO NOT KNOW their own type?! WHOM are these people?



## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

I am constantly amazed at the amount of members who are really prolific, and often with clear opinions concerning MB to educate others, yet with clear doubts which follow them for many years, they have not identified their own type!
I postulate this is a specific type < xxxx> who will fall into this whirlpool of endless doubts.

* 1 - Who do you say it is
2 - What advice to end their searching of an epic endless saga.*



On a similar tangent:
Which type are those who have been members for years. They do educate clearly.
AND specifically DO KNOW their type, but DO NOT want anybody else to know.
Perhaps they are attracted to the mysterious universal aura of being able to relate with every type, 
*Which type does this describe? <xxxx>.*


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

I don't know, the type I am! xD I get more insecure in my type every day  Give me advices people!


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

It takes a while for some people. 

-One can understand the system very well and still not understand themselves within it (I'd say this is the main reason)
-Some can feel uncomfortable typing themselves due to wishing their typing to be as objective as possible (usually takes time)
-There are multiple descriptions of certain functions which might appear to be one and the same for others yet contracting for some. ---It's occasionally hard to step past these contradictions and see the truth. Many may not even realize that they're typing themselves solely based off of stereotypes while for others, this chance stands as a sour possibility at all times. 

It's a permanent sort of thing. I think people might feel more comfortable typing themselves if the system said there was room for such change and flexibility. But there isn't. One type from birth to death. 

And the construction of the system makes it one which is just vague enough to leave plenty of room for self doubt.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

1. me, but then again 90% of my posts here have been throwaway comments i post for lols
2. no idea but i hope someone else can shed some light on this. all i can think of right now is for them (us?) to be honest with themselves (ourselves?) but sometimes settling on one type is really hard when you can relate heavily to multiple type descriptions/cognitive function orders

my biggest problem isn't that i don't know myself, but that i don't know whether to take my past into account when answering questions/typing myself. i usually don't but then every once in a while i'll think "but can i really be xxxx if i was like this in high school/middle school"

so when i do these tests, i rarely recall past instances to answer the question. i usually just think up a situation in my head and ask myself how i would act in said situation... but how i _think _i would act =/= how i will really act. it's tough, honestly, but it doesn't bother me too much. it seriously doesn't matter to me what my type is because i'm still the same person now that i was when i first got into MBTI. i've jumped from type to type but my personality has stayed the same, although i do get a little funnier/smarter everyday heh


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## lackofmops (Mar 13, 2014)

CosinusNiehaus said:


> I don't know, the type I am! xD I get more insecure in my type every day  Give me advices people!


Have you taken the freaking PERSONALITY TEST THAT IS DESIGNED TO TELL YOU YOUR TYPE?


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

lackofmops said:


> Have you taken the freaking PERSONALITY TEST THAT IS DESIGNED TO TELL YOU YOUR TYPE?


THE RESULTS DEPENDS ON MY MOOD AND I'VE TAKEN TOO MANY TO COUNT IT'S CRAZY  I've pretty much got any possible answer from these tests.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

MODS please ban @_lackofmops_ for making me laugh whenever i read his posts

@_CosinusNiehaus_ have you made a type me thread yet? also, good response. if someone had said that to me i'd tell them to go fuck themselves


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## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

Many people understand their own problems; there are likely many people on here desperate to find their own type (I've been one of them, and have mistyped several times). Perhaps in some cases, people seek to understand typology through seeing how it works on other people. Let's enact a potential scene that goes through a confused typer's (AKA one who isn't sure of their type) mind:

When analysing another person: "Right. This person places emphasis on being protective of those they trust. Seems like possibly they value Se-Fi." You can't really work on things that aren't in their answers, and you also very much have to work on finding a big picture regarding what they say. Still, to envision a person you've never even met... there will likely be aspects of that person that their answers don't begin attending to, things that may shroud your guess if you saw them, only there's no hint of such things anywhere. If Se-Fi is continuously hinted at through a person's answers, you will turn around to them and say "Definitely xSFP."

Now if one analysed themselves and said "I place emphasis on being protective of those I trust.", I may go on and think "Why am I so protective? Personal empathy?

In this scenario, I'm not oblivious to the big picture, and therefore I can identify deterrents from types in my behaviour that probably can't be spotted through other peoples' answers. What people talk about on those questionnaires is probably highlighting those things they value most, but even so, in times of confusion and turbulence much can be stated that really isn't that accurate. Typing yourself is much harder than typing another person.

My gut feeling @CosinusNiehaus is that you're some kind of strong Fe type, probably dominant. Ni or Si is trickier for me to discern, however.


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## cyberghost (Oct 28, 2014)

Can't really say about the first one. Ne users are supposedly infamous for questioning themselves forever and never truly settling on something. I'd say try out a type and run with it and see if it works. Can't speak to its accuracy, but no one's told me I'm mistyped yet. (Though only one person has told me I'm typed correctly, so I'm just not getting a lot of feedback here.)

As to knowing your type and being unwilling to list it, there may be a desire not to box yourself into a bunch of expectations. Also there's something of a bias against SJ types on this forum and I can see why somebody might be reluctant to advertise it.


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

Modal Soul said:


> MODS please ban @_lackofmops_ for making me laugh whenever i read his posts
> 
> @_CosinusNiehaus_ have you made a type me thread yet? also, good response. if someone had said that to me i'd tell them to go fuck themselves


Haha, thanks!  I've made a few!
this is the recent one:
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...elf-doubt-never-ends-again-questionnaire.html
and I have a video thread:
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/403050-new-last-video-lets-finish-once-all.html @An Obese Skeleton thank you for your opinion!


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

There's a lot of BS out there and in your brain, and you have to be careful about sorting it out. I know my type...however I do not list it, because I want people to react to how I come off rather than the label(because you learn more when people are reacting to your words rather than your group). Although most of my posts are old posts in my type forum. So... some people will know what to label me.

Also...to put a label on who these people are...it's typically Ne that is the culprit. Or when people's worlds fall out from under them but they think they've changed. Ne often produces this effect...


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## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

CosinusNiehaus said:


> Haha, thanks!  I've made a few!
> this is the recent one:
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my...elf-doubt-never-ends-again-questionnaire.html
> and I have a video thread:
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/403050-new-last-video-lets-finish-once-all.html @_An Obese Skeleton_ thank you for your opinion!


Any chance I could speak to you on Skype? I'd quite like to have a little interaction with you. I'd prefer that to watching your vids, if I'm honest.


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

An Obese Skeleton said:


> Any chance I could speak to you on Skype? I'd quite like to have a little interaction with you. I'd prefer that to watching your vids, if I'm honest.


The problem is I don't have a webcam D: I REALLY need to get one asap though. People say I look Fe in my videos but I'm not sure if that's the case in real life to be honest.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

@CosinusNiehaus i'm watching the first video as i type this and you seem like an INFJ to me. so far, at least. also, you are beautiful



tangosthenes said:


> There's a lot of BS out there and in your brain, and you have to be careful about sorting it out. I know my type...however I do not list it,* because I want people to react to how I come off rather than the label*(because you learn more when people are reacting to your words rather than your group). Although most of my posts are old posts in my type forum. So... some people will know what to label me.
> 
> Also...to put a label on who these people are...it's typically Ne that is the culprit. Or when people's world falls out from under them but they think they've changed.


i really like this.



An Obese Skeleton said:


> Any chance I could speak to you on Skype? I'd quite like to have a little interaction with you. I'd prefer that to watching your vids, if I'm honest.


haha this doesn't sound creepy at all..


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## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

CosinusNiehaus said:


> The problem is I don't have a webcam D: I REALLY need to get one asap though. People say I look Fe in my videos but I'm not sure if that's the case in real life to be honest.


Fair enough. You've seemed pretty Fe to me thus far, so it probably is quite consistent.

There is a bigger problem, however. Do you seem Fe because that is your natural way, or is it a learned behaviour? Assigning Fe-dominance to a slightly confused woman seems a little bit too easy, somehow. Regardless, I'm gonna read your questionnaire, and watch your video.

If it helps, one of my techniques generally revolves around trying to pinpoint one top function or the other. The one that I can pinpoint more easily, I will assume to be the dominant, unless that contradicts other info (i.e identifying Si, but the person seeming like a J-lead overall).


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## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

Modal Soul said:


> haha this doesn't sound creepy at all..


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## Recluse BrainStormer333 (Dec 25, 2014)

They are aliens disguised in secret agents who spy on this forum to gather enough informations about how humans work so that They can conquer the world. Keep an eye on them, OP.:ninja:


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

An Obese Skeleton said:


>


surprisingly catchy


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

@Modal Soul thank you! Yes, I've heard INFJ quite a lot and I believed it for quite some time  @An Obese Skeleton that's the problem- looking at me as a child I seemed more Fi, and as I grew up I become more Fe. Ok, whatever works! 
Thank you both so so much.


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## Lord Fudgingsley (Mar 3, 2013)

tangosthenes said:


> There's a lot of BS out there and in your brain, and you have to be careful about sorting it out. I know my type...however I do not list it, because I want people to react to how I come off rather than the label(because you learn more when people are reacting to your words rather than your group). Although most of my posts are old posts in my type forum. So... some people will know what to label me.
> 
> Also...to put a label on who these people are...it's typically Ne that is the culprit. Or when people's worlds fall out from under them but they think they've changed. Ne often produces this effect...


Thinking can be very prone to labelling as well. At the end of the day, it creates a classification system; everything is ordered in some way or another. I'm very prone to working with archetypes, in much the way that Socionics does. Ti creates this system of archetypes, to which I work Fe and understand how these archetypes can manifest. I believe that when you examine an individual from the right angle, they will always fit the archetype; even if they do so in a very non-stereotypical manner.


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

cyberghost said:


> But I mean, what if it's not Ne? What if that's just a common misconception everyone holds and the other functions are perfectly capable of self-doubting into perpetuity? Maybe we're all SJs who just don't see it because all the SJ descriptions suck.


You joined in October 2014. There's been forum activity about MBTI, say since 1998. In 16 years, the number of people interested in this stuff has increased exponentially, and along with them, the errors. Doubt... is both necessary and a hopelessly recurring cycle. Can you sort out all the bullshit before you get even more?


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

cyberghost said:


> But I mean, what if it's not Ne? What if that's just a common misconception everyone holds and the other functions are perfectly capable of self-doubting into perpetuity? Maybe we're all SJs who just don't see it because all the SJ descriptions suck.


Have you met a doubting *SJ*?
*Se* and *Ne* are content to leave things open for a while, *J* are agitated if the issues are left hanging (so we need to consider this when we deal with them, or need something from them)

Perceivers love to perceive


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## cyberghost (Oct 28, 2014)

tangosthenes said:


> You joined in October 2014. There's been forum activity about MBTI, say since 1998. In 16 years, the number of people interested in this stuff has increased exponentially, and along with them, the errors. Doubt... is both necessary and a hopelessly recurring cycle. Can you sort out all the bullshit before you get even more?


Probably not. I was largely making a joke there.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

tangosthenes said:


> You joined in October 2014. There's been forum activity about MBTI, say since 1998. In 16 years, the number of people interested in this stuff has increased exponentially, and along with them, the errors. Doubt... is both necessary and a hopelessly recurring cycle. Can you sort out all the xxxxxxx before you get even more?


Or, just as you made silly mistakes/comments/assumptions when you were new (check the archives), each new wave of newbeis will need to find their legs, just as we did/do/will do


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## tangosthenes (Oct 29, 2011)

Zee Bee said:


> Or, just as you made silly mistakes/comments/assumptions when you were new (check the archives), each new wave of newbeis will need to find their legs, just as we did/do/will do


Nooopppee


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

tangosthenes said:


> Nooopppee


NT


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

@CosinusNiehaus People say I look Fe in my videos but I'm not sure

Does Scarlett Johanson behave like an ISFP?
(They seem to give her let lines to speak than others)
In front of the camera, even an Introvert can be "outgoing" (at least for 20 minute intervals)

Alone at home without any "roles", quiet time with your shoes off - Who are you, that is the answer, and it won't be found with out some "honest time" to yourself.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

*There are another two possibilities of the RETICENT posters, who dodges "Type".*

1 - *INFP*/*ENFP*
They are the most bitten by."*It is not nice to put all of humanity into one box*(out of 16)"

2 - Those who irk still, at the idea of *forced answers*.
They are BOTH; sometimes *P*, but ALSO *J
*Often *F*, but very in touch with their *T*


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Zee Bee said:


> These are exactly the same concerns people worry about before marriage!


ahaha! x)
@Zee Bee


> Have you met a doubting SJ?




Why yes, I have actually met a few. Doubting one's type shouldn't imply to people that they automatically aren't SJs. If anything that might be more confusing for the individual. They can doubt as well. 



> They are the most bitten by."*It is not nice to put all of humanity into one box(out of 16)"*


This part is interesting. I'm not bothered by the idea of the 16 boxes because I find them abstract enough to be relevant. But I'm very bothered by the whole "All X do *insert overgeneralization here*" . That. ticks me off. And I will speak against it when I feel like someone is narrowing it down too much.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

It takes time for people to determine there type and then there are people who think type is basically not enough, it's not good and it doesn't describe them. So they don't label themselves. I personally don't mind the label as much as I used to, it used to matter but now I care less about it.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Ehehe what I love more is reading old posts, the last one being "I am a book-INFJ" written by a now INTP.

Seriously?? I can't even..


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## Angelic Gardevoir (Oct 7, 2010)

Zee Bee said:


> Se dom


Nice try, but I don’t think so. Because...



Zee Bee said:


> *Se* focused on *doing*, will react like a shotgun out of nowhere and could seem to be a *J*, while in hot pursuit.


This is _not_ me. I’m very reluctant to take action on anything. That much I do understand about myself. I just analyze and overanalyze, to the point where I see multiple possibilities but can’t tell which one is the correct one because either explanation could make sense or each possibility has weaknesses and inconsistencies. I fear being wrong and looking like an idiot because I have an incorrect understanding of the source of my own behavior due to bias and perhaps poor understanding of the functions altogether. 

Furthermore, when I said that I had trouble understanding myself, I was referring to the fact that most of our thought processes are unconscious and inaccessible to the conscious mind. None of us has the insight we think we do. Though maybe this is a personal thing and everyone else has some sort of deep powers of mental perception that I do not. But I would second guess that: Introspection illusion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


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## Recluse BrainStormer333 (Dec 25, 2014)

Maybe MBTI is not set in stone. People may have a dominant type, but they also have secondary traits that define/can be found in other type. It is the same as in the temperaments cases -- ex: someone is dominantly melancholic, but can also have a phlegmatic temperament as secondary temperament.


If MBTI was perfectly clear and applicable to all people, we would have only 16 types of people which would be very boring(more boring than actual people are,and yes, I include myself in the "category of people"). You could have two ENTJ who can largely be the same, but each one of them can have a different secondary trait that resembles another type(one could use more S or F than the other -- depending on upbringing and other external factors involved and depending on genetics,too).


I'm new to MBTI, but that's the first theory that comes to mind that may explain why some(including me)are confused regarding their affiliation to one of the 16 personality types).

I will wait till my "J" part/trait strikes so I will carry my theory into effect.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

nichya said:


> Ehehe what I love more is reading old posts, the last one being "I am a book-INFJ" written by a now INTP.
> 
> Seriously?? I can't even..


And you know what's the best part about this?? ALL the other (example): INFJs liking the persons posts and relating with them. It really goes to show how fluid everything is. 

Types can relate and mirror each other through mere conversations much, much better than some people assume.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

O_o said:


> And you know what's the best part about this?? ALL the other (example): INFJs liking the persons posts and relating with them. It really goes to show how fluid everything is.
> 
> Types can relate and mirror each other through mere conversations much, much better than some people assume.


lack of Fi much?


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

Zee Bee said:


> Who are you when you shed all of your roles?
> When you are totally alone and "_take off your shoes to relax_"


there are a lot of different ways i could answer this

i am alone almost all of the time so you think it'd be easy for me to, buuut it isn't

i am introspective and this usually sends me in a whirlwind of depressive thoughts and volatile emotions, but sometimes it sprouts paradigm shifting epiphanies. which balances things out, i guess. i like and understand myself the best when i am alone.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

nichya said:


> lack of Fi much?


but aren't INFPs the type that most often mistake themselves for INFJs? it isn't about being chameleon-like or having a weak sense of self as much as it is having a completely *false* self-schema


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Modal Soul said:


> but aren't INFPs the type that most often mistake themselves for INFJs?


I always believe it is the other way around, since we share zero functions with INFJs I really can't relate to it. Shrugs*


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## StunnedFox (Dec 20, 2013)

There are a good many reasons why people wouldn't know their types even after having posted a lot/been involved with MBTI for some time. The theory is sufficiently imprecise, and sufficiently vague enough, to make certainty difficult to come by, and that's without acknowledging the different and varying theories that are expounded, or the personal understandings of the theory that people trying to assist others to find their type often bring to the people ("I've often found that Se-doms...", that sort of thing). Or perhaps they're mostly certain, but one preference is so marginal for them that they don't know which way they lean in relation to it. Perhaps there's some aspect of their personality that seems both prominent and incongruous with an otherwise well-fitting type (say, they can clearly see Fe-Ni, an extraversion, but also a strong Ti)... and then you've also got people who've stopped trying to find their type, either through disillusionment with MBTI, possibly never having been interested in the first place (came here for another personality theory like Enneagram, perhaps, or even just for the non-typology related stuff), or realising they'll never come to a conclusion that they're satisfied with.

As for people choosing not to display their types... it's a handy way to avoid having your type called into question by people who think they know better than you about your own cognition, certainly, and it can also ward off the occasions where people start using your type as a tool against you in a discussion. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, it means people are more likely to attend to what is written rather than who is writing, since they likely know less about the writer. Perhaps they're not comfortable with the theoretical model, and have their qualms about MBTI's accuracy, even whilst knowing exactly where they would sit were they to accept the theory. 

There are a multitude of possible reasons as answers to either question, really, and both can be true for any type, even if some might be more likely to doubt or not to display type than others. I know I only started typing as INTP two weeks ago, so until recently I'd have fallen into this category myself (had been "Unknown Personality" for six months prior to that), and my reasoning was simply uncertainty, both over what exactly the theoretical model was and where I sat within each of them; even now, more certain that I've been for a long time, there are still a lot of doubts that are yet to be dispelled, a lot of questions requiring answers. It's not an exact science, there will be many - even those who've been around a while/posted a lot in a short space of time - who will have some reason (one of the ones I mentioned above, or some other reason entirely) for not having a type displayed.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

nichya said:


> I always believe it is the other way around, since we share zero functions with INFJs I really can't relate to it. Shrugs*


maybe you can't, but i've seen a lot of INFPs-who-think-they-are-INFJs convince themselves otherwise

i figured it was an INFP 4 thing, wanting to be unique and all that


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

nichya said:


> lack of Fi much?


Nahh, I think it's a human thing  Every single type has done this in some way. On every forum you can go and find posts thanked by others with the writer later changing his mind and labeling himself as a different type. And it's because there happen to be similarities. The individual happens to identify with certain aspects they once believed to be exclusive among the INFJs even though they aren't. 

People often treat the separate types as if they're some alien's compared to their own personality types. But when we type it's really quite fluid, on the surface you might see slight differences but rarely something which screams out "not the same type as me!". I've met ENFPs on here and etc that were more different from me (some I really really didn't like) based on the things they say when typing than some ISTJs I've met.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Modal Soul said:


> maybe you can't, but i've seen a lot of INFPs-who-think-they-are-INFJs convince themselves otherwise
> 
> i figured it was an INFP 4 thing, wanting to be unique and all that


I am a 4  For me, the difference between Fi vs. Fe is very clear. I never find it difficult to even stumble upon what functions I use, despite my weirdo keys2cognition. Because I am dom-Fi and my identity is pretty much clear to me even when some people here suggested I could be INFJ, funny story 

See? That is the problem in the theory itself, I don't see any INFP -trying to convince themselves- otherwise, -especially- the enneagram 4s, they wallow in their identity and individualism, I can't see how they would convince themselves of otherwise. So maybe they started of mistyping as INFPs then wanted to be INFJs? lol, anything seems possible here for some reason :'D I had a friend who thought himself of an INFP first then INFJ. I believe he was INFJ from the beginning. However I have enough reason to say enneagram 9 INFPs pretty much function like INFJs from outside.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@Zee Bee

I figure they either know their type and do not wish to reveal it, or they are better at analyzing others and can't as easily read themselves.


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

CosinusNiehaus said:


> THE RESULTS DEPENDS ON MY MOOD AND I'VE TAKEN TOO MANY TO COUNT IT'S CRAZY  I've pretty much got any possible answer from these tests.


 I know what you mean, the questions are way too obvious.

Once I read some of MBTI theory & the descriptions of functions I noticed what the test questions were probing for.
How can one trust that their answers are objective & not influenced by a subconscious desire that their test results suggest a particular type?


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## Cosmic Hobo (Feb 7, 2013)

They can have a good idea of what the functions do - in the abstract - but find it difficult to identify them in real life, either in themselves or in other people (let alone in different positions).

Plus also isolation, or often not being in the right situations that let them play to their strengths.


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## Aerorobyn (Nov 11, 2009)

Because the theory itself is an interesting concept and easily explainable; types and "descriptions" on the other hand are flawed. 

If mom tells you that you can be anything you want to be, then go ahead and be a little bit of everything.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

*The Unknown Type Man*
_by Myersbriggsica_


New blood joins this PerC,
And quickly he's subdued.
Through constant pained disgrace
The young boy learns their rules.

With time the child draws in.
This whipping boy done wrong.
Deprived of all his thoughts
The young man struggles on and on.

He's known a vow unto his own,
That never from this day
His type they'll take away.

What I've felt,
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown.
Never be.
Never see.
Won't see what might have been.

What I've felt,
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown.
Never free.
Never me.
So I dub me unknown type man.

They dedicate their lives
To typing all of his.
He tries to please them all –
This bitter man he is.

Throughout his life the same –
He's battled constantly.
This fight he cannot win –
A tired man they see no longer cares.

The old man then prepares
To die regretfully –
That old man here is me.

What I've felt,
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown.
Never be.
Never see.
Won't see what might have been.

What I've felt,
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown.
Never free.
Never me.
So I dub me unknown type man.

[Solo]

What I've felt,
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown.
Never be.
Never see.
Won't see what might have been.

What I've felt,
What I've known
Never shined through in what I've shown.
Never free.
Never me.
So I dub me unknown type man.

Never free.
Never me.
So I dub me unknown type man.

You labelled me,
I'll label you.
So I dub thee unknown type man.

Never free.
Never me.
So I dub me unknown type man.

You labelled me,
I'll label you.
So I dub thee unknown type man.

Never free.
Never me.
So I dub me unknown type man.


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## Blindspots (Jan 27, 2014)

To the OP: 

Being very familiar with the theory doesn't necessarily equate to being confident enough to type oneself.

I think getting to know your own personality is the biggest hurdle here, and the methods towards an almost-complete understanding of it varies between individuals. For some it may take a crisis or two, or even a lifetime, to honestly know themselves.

After that, it takes time and effort to define and then classify one's own mental processes with as much objectivity and as little bias as possible.



edit: Those are just the steps to finding a type that describes your personality the closest. I just read through the other responses and acknowledge as well that the types are not meant to be the be-all end-all of one's individuality.


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## Stelmaria (Sep 30, 2011)

@Zee Bee I would have hoped that in your 500 posts, you would have noticed that this forum is more about self-discovery, rather than rigidly placing ourselves into boxes that don't quite fit. :wink:

For those who stick around on the forum, it is about the journey, not the destination. If it was about the destination, they would have just done the test and been done with it.


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## Cosmic Hobo (Feb 7, 2013)

PaladinX said:


> *The Unknown Type Man*
> _by Myersbriggsica_



I like it: clever! And thought provoking, too.

Being typed and trying to be that type is an act of Existentialist bad faith. Deciding to be the "unknown type man" is an act of autonomy; not only does one make the negative choice, the choice not to be defined by the _régard_ (the gaze) of the other, but one makes the positive choice, the choice of one's own identity. And so one asserts one's own individuality in the face of the conformism of typological categorical thinking. "I am not a number, I am a free man!"

!


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

Usually people don't have opportunity (or wish) to interact with all 16 types and many experience difficulties with being introspective enough and at the same time being able to step aside and objectively compare their cognition to other 16 types. Caricaturable stereotypes and personal bias doesn't help in this process at all too.

It's easy to get confused being in a vacuum of own's own head, even if one knows a lot about the theory, as the more you read about functions and all that jazz, the more you see traces of all 16 types within yourself, and it is confusing as hell. 

There's also a tendency to fixate on some detail that particularly fits or doesn't fit and because of this identify or refuse to identify with certain type, disregarding the bigger context of type cognition as a whole. Thus, difficulty with singling out what is the core of the type and which ones are just occurrences that may be wrong, inaccurate and in need of change, can also be the source of difficulties with relating to one of the 16 types.


----------



## niss (Apr 25, 2010)

Zee Bee said:


> Have you met a doubting SJ?


More times than I can remember.



nichya said:


> Ehehe what I love more is reading old posts, the last one being "I am a book-INFJ" written by a now INTP.
> 
> Seriously?? I can't even..


Cracks me up. I read through old threads of this type simply for the lulz.

It also cracks me up when I've seen long time members that have cycled through almost (if not all) of the sixteen types - not including those that do it to troll.

OT:

People can't/won't figure out their type for many reasons. Most of them boil down to a lack of self awareness, a misunderstanding of the application of the theory, trying to equate certain behaviors with type, or placing too much emphasis on MBTI type. Your cognitive preferences are just a part of what makes you an individual - several other factors also come into play.

Some people are aware of their type, but refuse to display it or reveal it because of the tendency of others to pigeon-hole based on type. Especially irritating when people do this (pigeon-holing), failing to understand the theory, themselves.


----------



## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

niss said:


> Cracks me up. I read through old threads of this type simply for the lulz.
> 
> It also cracks me up when I've seen long time members that have cycled through almost (if not all) of the sixteen types - not including those that do it to troll.


Guilty as charged.
I've typed as... let's see.... ISFJ, INFJ (before I knew functions, but this was years ago), then ISFJ again, then ISTJ (which is prolly my type actually, I don't think am Fe thinking about it. Just trained that way because I'm a wimmin) then ESFJ (?????), then ISFJ, then ISTP, now ISTJ.
So to be fair, I've been consistent in sensing the past few months... :> I miss when @_ae1905_ did it. It was very amusing.



> OT:
> People can't/won't figure out their type for many reasons. Most of them boil down to a lack of self awareness, a misunderstanding of the application of the theory, trying to equate certain behaviors with type, or placing too much emphasis on MBTI type. Your cognitive preferences are just a part of what makes you an individual - several other factors also come into play.
> 
> Some people are aware of their type, but refuse to display it or reveal it because of the tendency of others to pigeon-hole based on type. Especially irritating when people do this (pigeon-holing), failing to understand the theory, themselves.


There's also the distinction that people need to make between who they are and who they want to be - so if they see themselves as what they want to be rather than what they are, that's going to cause mistypes too. Hence my mistypes. I want to be likeable! I will type myself as a more caring type then I will be liked! 
It is know I know I am an ISTJ, but a terrible one. I can't even account. I'm sorry, I know you're disappointed. However, I feel I get points for having a Henry Desk Hoover.
That and I made my dad and sister (who are very alike but hate each other because of it, so they will most definitely be the same type) take a test and they both got ISTJ - I feel inferior in that I am not nearly as strict as either of them. 

Anyway point being, comparing to others of the type I think I am doesn't help - I don't feel like I am XXXX enough. I do not feel ISTJ enough and it is a daft notion, but it is a feeling I can't shake. I feel this way with all types.  It is however the way I know I am Si-dom - constant comparisons to what I know.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> It takes time for people to determine there type and then there are people who think type is basically not enough, it's not good and it doesn't describe them. So they don't label themselves. I personally don't mind the label as much as I used to, it used to matter but now I care less about it.


I guess if I was a GURU", I would also have a better outlook on life too ... unfortunately for my low pain-threashold, I would crack at the first sign of writers cramp


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Angelic Gardevoir said:


> Nice try, but I don’t think so. Because...
> This is _not_ me. I’m very reluctant to take action on anything. That much I do understand about myself. I just analyze and overanalyze, to the point where I see multiple possibilities but can’t tell which one is the correct one because either explanation could make sense or each possibility has weaknesses and inconsistencies. I fear being wrong and looking like an idiot because I have an incorrect understanding of the source of my own behavior due to bias and perhaps poor understanding of the functions altogether.
> Furthermore, when I said that I had trouble understanding myself, I was referring to the fact that most of our thought processes are unconscious and inaccessible to the conscious mind.


Don't for to worry my frien, make me an offer, I give you more functions to try on, you like?


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

StunnedFox said:


> Or perhaps they're mostly certain, but one preference is so marginal for them that they don't know which way they lean in relation to it. Perhaps there's some aspect of their personality that seems both prominent and incongruous with an otherwise well-fitting type .... or realising they'll never come to a conclusion that they're satisfied with.


*Or they prefer to be another more glamorous type ... instead of who they are, and hope for another chance, to be better*



> As for people choosing not to display their types... it's a handy way to avoid having your type called into question by people who think they know better than you about your own cognition, certainly, and it can also ward off the occasions where people start using your type as a tool against you in a discussion.


*Snipers are snipers, even if you do not give them the bullets.*


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

To_august said:


> Usually people have a tendency to fixate on some detail that particularly fits or doesn't fit and because of this identify or refuse to identify with certain type, disregarding the bigger context of type cognition as a whole.


*
Excellent! Reason #5*
People who don't know the functions can become snagged upon one point, thinking they have the entire function!
wild cheers


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Modal Soul said:


> maybe you can't, but i've seen a lot of INFPs-who-think-they-are-INFJs convince themselves otherwise i figured it was an INFP 4 thing, wanting to be unique and all that


If I did not know my exact type, except *NF* and *I*.
I would want to be an *INFJ*.
They extovert more than most Introverts, kind, popular.
They definately have a far better PR program than *INFP*.

... then to be informed you are not the glamorous prince ... but a toad.
I would collect many second opinions until somebody agreed with _what I want to be_.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Zee Bee said:


> If I did not know my exact type, except *NF* and *I*.
> I would want to be an *INFJ*.
> They extovert more than most Introverts, kind, popular.
> They definately have a far better PR program than *INFP*.
> ...


I assume you never got to know an INFJ close


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

@Snowy Leopard


Zee Bee said:


> *Two possibilities of the RETICENTs, who dodge "Being Typed".*
> 2 - Those who irk still, at the idea of *forced answers*.





> I would have hoped you would have noticed that this forum is more about self-discovery, rather *than rigidly placing ourselves into boxes that don't quite fit*
> 
> * it is about the journey,
> not the destination*.


*BINGO!!!! *
*That is the answer that fits exactly -- come on up and claim your prize!*


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

nichya said:


> I assume you never got to know an INFJ close


.... well....

...like most of the best things in my life,

idealizing something is so often so much more pleasurable, it would only ruin things if I were to actually experience it.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

@Snowy Leopard


Zee Bee said:


> *Two possibilities of the RETICENTs, who dodge "Being Typed".*
> 2 - Those who irk still, at the idea of *forced answers*.





> I would have hoped you would have noticed that this forum is more about self-discovery, rather *than rigidly placing ourselves into boxes that don't quite fit*
> 
> * it is about the journey,
> not the destination*.


*BINGO!!!! *
*That is the answer that fits exactly -- come on up and claim your prize!*


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

@Snowy Leopard


Zee Bee said:


> *Two possibilities of the RETICENTs, who dodge "Being Typed".*
> 2 - Those who irk still, at the idea of *forced answers*.





> I would have hoped you would have noticed that this forum is more about self-discovery, rather *than rigidly placing ourselves into boxes that don't quite fit*
> 
> * it is about the journey,
> not the destination*.


*BINGO!!!! *
*That is the answer that fits exactly -- come on up and claim your prize!*


----------



## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

@Snowy Leopard


Zee Bee said:


> *Two possibilities of the RETICENTs, who dodge "Being Typed".*
> 2 - Those who irk still, at the idea of *forced answers*.





> I would have hoped you would have noticed that this forum is more about self-discovery, rather *than rigidly placing ourselves into boxes that don't quite fit*
> 
> * it is about the journey,
> not the destination*.


*BINGO!!!! *
*That is the answer that fits exactly -- come on up and claim your prize!*


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

Spammer


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

PaladinX said:


> Spammer


You were born with a keyboard.

Others don't learn until they do the same mistake five times.
(lucky for me I didn't chose you to do the mistake


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

niss said:


> Some people refuse because of the tendency to pigeon-hole based on type.


I stopped for a few years because of this issue, and only returned once I sorted it out, (a *Fi* thing, infecting INFP/ENFP more)
@Grandmaster Yoda @StunnedFox @niss @Angelic Gardevoir @O_o @To_august @Modal Soul @nichya @tanstaafl28 @PaladinX @Snowy Leopard 

*Two ideas perhaps:*
1 - What does *Bruce Lee *and *Woody Allen *have in common?
Often quoted, that they are both *ISTP* obviously.

Within Types there are many viable expressions.

2 - I am amazed that INTP don't band together and abolish the cliche example, "Oh, Einstein was also an INTP", the inference being - And what happened to you!
Simple; His INTP coconut was the size of a watermelon, and everybody elses is the size of a walnut.

*Being the same as millions, does not mean conformity to a preset standard.*

On a lighter note: In High School I failed the pigeon-hole finals.
Being from the city, I didn't realize that my friends exchanged my pigeon for a chicken, so it never fit in properly.


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Zee Bee said:


> I stopped for a few years because of this issue, and only returned once I sorted it out, (a *Fi* thing, infecting INFP/ENFP more)
> 
> @Grandmaster Yoda @StunnedFox @niss @Angelic Gardevoir @O_o @To_august @Modal Soul @nichya @tanstaafl28 @PaladinX @Snowy Leopard
> 
> ...


1. There are differences between any two ISTPs but what they should have in common is Ti, Se, Ni, Fe, all the time. I was wondering how lenient a person could get with this. It's about the type, does the person follow those perceiving and judging functions. It's possible for an actor to be an INTP even though his job may involve little theorizing, it's just the idea that he displays those slices of cognition. I still sound like a pyscho because people can easily dismiss functions and not being real.
2. Maybe someone forgot that Einstein was as INTP as anyone else. He was that kid that got bad grades in classes he didn't care about. Your argument is invalid. 
This is a proper INTP anyway.


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Zee Bee said:


> *Two ideas perhaps:*
> 1 - What does *Bruce Lee *and *Woody Allen *have in common?
> Often quoted, that they are both *ISTP* obviously..


Bruce Lee is NO ISTP. I discussed this with @FearAndTrembling
I severely doubt the man is ISTP.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> There are differences between any two ISTPs but what they should have in common is Ti, Se, Ni, Fe, all the time. I was wondering how lenient a person could get with this.
> Your argument is invalid.


Sorry, I forgot you are INTP.

But I do appreciate that you believe I am a human being and not spam on rye with mustard


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

O_o said:


> Bruce Lee is NO ISTP. I discussed this with @FearAndTrembling
> I severely doubt the man is ISTP.


That is why I especially like this example


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## Grandmaster Yoda (Jan 18, 2014)

Zee Bee said:


> Sorry, I forgot you are INTP.
> 
> But I do appreciate that you believe I am a human being and not spam on rye with mustard


What am I chopped liver? Hmm...


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

O_o said:


> Bruce Lee is NO ISTP. I discussed this with @FearAndTrembling
> I severely doubt the man is ISTP.


*HOLD*

Your question is Bruce Lee? No doubt.
Woody Allen - the jock? He is a mechanic-type. Allen is odd man out


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Zee Bee said:


> *HOLD*
> 
> Your question is Bruce Lee? No doubt.
> Woody Allen - the jock? He is a mechanic-type. Allen is odd man out


No doubt that Bruce Lee is an ISTP? Is that what you're saying here?
I know nothing about woody allen so I have no comment on him.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Zee Bee said:


> *HOLD*
> 
> Your question is Bruce Lee? No doubt.
> Woody Allen - the jock? He is a mechanic-type. Allen is odd man out


Famous ISTP People
•Zachary Taylor
American President
•Charles Bronson
Actor
•Tom Cruise
Actor
•James Dean
Actor
•Clint Eastwood
Actor, Director
•Burt Reynolds
Actor
•Keith Richards
English Guitarist/Singer
•Frank Zappa
Guitarist
•John Malkovich
Actor
•Judy Finnigan
British TV Star
•Robin Cook
British Politician
•Katharine Hepburn
Actress
•Avril Lavigne
Singer
•Chuck Yeager
U.S. Air Force Officer
•Antony Worrall Thompson
British Celebrity Chef
•Alan Shepherd
Astronaut
•Michael Jordan
Athelete (Basketball, Baseball)
*•Bruce Lee
Martial Artist, Actor*
at https://www.personalitymax.com/personality-types/istp-craftsman


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Zee Bee said:


> Famous ISTP People
> •Zachary Taylor
> American President
> •Charles Bronson
> ...


This is incredibly insignificant to me, unfortunately. 
Posting a link of someone else's typing of him neither tells me how much they know of him nor does it offer proof of how they came to the decision. But people can think as they'd like.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

O_o said:


> No doubt that Bruce Lee is an ISTP? Is that what you're saying here?
> I know nothing about woody allen so I have no comment on him.


Lee developed a whole system of martial arts, improving and adding to the best styles = * Ti - Se*

Woody - whimp pedophile, and all around funny man (not to be confused with Bill Cosby ENTP)


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Zee Bee said:


> Lee developed a whole system of martial arts, improving and adding to the best styles = * Ti - Se*
> 
> Woody - whimp pedophile, and all around funny man (not to be confused with Bill Cosby ENTP)


You're implying that, somehow, another type isn't capable of doing that same? Just like SJs don't doubt? I believe people know of him through the movies and such but not of him as a person. 
Someone I speak with is a very very big fan of his. He made me think otherwise to ISTP. But I, myself, also don't know much about him.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

O_o said:


> This is incredibly insignificant to me.
> Posting a link of someone else's typing of him neither tells me how much they know of him nor does it offer proof of how they came to the decision.


It only show how wide spread and generally accepted it is, and you NEVER hear of any mass demonstrations in protest.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Grandmaster Yoda said:


> What am I chopped liver? Hmm...


Sorry to break the news to you, but
Yes, you ARE chopped liver. The good news is, there is only a trace of onions.
Now go out into the world and cope with this unusual "Identity Crisis"


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Zee Bee said:


> It only show how wide spread and generally accepted it is, and you NEVER hear of any mass demonstrations in protest.


Why would there be mass demonstrations? Do you think there are folk who even take the time to know much about the man? On the outside and through his movies, doesn't he hardly speak? ISTP seems like the straight forward answers. Just like INxJ seems like the straightforward answers for any stranger who many not know me. My own best friend who I've known since childhood believes I'm INTJ. Surfaces can be odd and misleading. 

There was a point where I was looking through a few lists of typed celebrities and wondering "lol. I wonder if these celebrities were to see this. How much might some of them disagree?"


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

O_o said:


> Why would there be mass demonstrations? Do you think there are folk who even take the time to know much about the man? On the outside and through his movies, doesn't he hardly speak? ISTP seems like the straight forward answers. Just like INxJ seems like the straightforward answers for any stranger who many not know me. My own best friend who I've known since childhood believes I'm INTJ. Surfaces can be odd and misleading.
> 
> There was a point where I was looking through a few lists of typed celebrities and wondering "lol. I wonder if these celebrities were to see this. How much might some of them disagree?"


The lack of mass demonstrations, are PROOF that the level of outrage and indignation for calling Lee an ISTP is not beyond what most people are willing to tolerate

Are you insinuating that since most Chinese do not speak English - are ISTP?
No

Again; ISTP Ti - Se have a number of outstanding characteristics which comes to them more naturally, that other types can ALSO _learn_ 
- Among the quietest type
- Natural Kinosthetic motor control
- Ti - Analysing, building their own system, improving
- but Se activities as opposed to Ne (INTP does not look like Lee - generally, all rules have exceptions, but you cannot build a rule from exceptions)


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

@FearAndTrembling 

Come and defe3nd Bruce Lee, poor guy has been dead for years


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

O_o said:


> Why would there be mass demonstrations? Do you think there are folk who even take the time to know much about the man? On the outside and through his movies, doesn't he hardly speak? ISTP seems like the straight forward answers. Just like INxJ seems like the straightforward answers for any stranger who many not know me. My own best friend who I've known since childhood believes I'm INTJ. Surfaces can be odd and misleading.
> 
> There was a point where I was looking through a few lists of typed celebrities and wondering "lol. I wonder if these celebrities were to see this. How much might some of them disagree?"


JK Rowling recently came out as an INFJ. Score one for the good guys. They still list her as INFP though. 

Most people don't get Lee. Not the fighters he inspired. If you watch a documentary on Bruce Lee, they will interview athletes and musicians. They always keep it at that level. Examined under that light. They never expand the philosophy outside of sport. His daughter and wife get it though. 

What he preaches is very hippyish and unorthodox. It is in a strange, intense package, so it throws people off. He was very organized and systematic. But more at ease around people than a Ti dom. He is a philosopher and mentor, before an athlete. He didn't even leave a style. What does he seem to you?


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

Zee Bee said:


> The lack of mass demonstrations, are PROOF that the level of outrage and indignation for calling Lee an ISTP is not beyond what most people are willing to tolerate
> 
> Are you insinuating that since most Chinese do not speak English - are ISTP?
> No
> ...


You misinterpret. I wrote "_On the outside and through his movies, doesn't he hardly speak?" not at all implying this as proof of a type for him, *but rather as proof of possible lack of information many might have on him. *

_People accept it because most people don't honestly give a shit. Why would they unless they're a close fan of him and know more about him outside of his movies?


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Good stuff, the computer is smoking again, and my Mother wants me home for cookies and a nap, I'll think about this.
THX


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## O_o (Oct 22, 2011)

FearAndTrembling said:


> JK Rowling recently came out as an INFJ. Score one for the good guys. They still list her as INFP though.
> 
> Most people don't get Lee. Not the fighters he inspired. If you watch a documentary on Bruce Lee, they will interview athletes and musicians. They always keep it at that level. Examined under that light. They never expand the philosophy outside of sport. His daughter and wife get it though.
> 
> What he preaches is very hippyish and unorthodox. It is in a strange, intense package, so it throws people off. He was very organized and systematic. But more at ease around people than a Ti dom. He is a philosopher and mentor, before an athlete. He didn't even leave a style. What does he seem to you?


He seemed to me as you said before in our conversation. I agreed with you. The video you sent me was one of the sweetest things I watched, his interaction with Jackie Chan.


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## StunnedFox (Dec 20, 2013)

Zee Bee said:


> *Or they prefer to be another more glamorous type ... instead of who they are, and hope for another chance, to be better*


True, certainly, that amongst those without a type, there will be some who simply can't find it in them to believe the result they've obtained - both through dissatisfaction with it, as you point out, but also, perhaps, the opposite feeling, that it sounds _too good for them_...



> *Snipers are snipers, even if you do not give them the bullets.*


Sure, but at the very least the snipers have to go and get new ammunition if you haven't provided them with some already. It's rather disappointing, really, that anyone who might otherwise display their type in their profile might be held back from doing so solely because they are less likely to be on the receiving end of some type-related hostility if they don't...



Zee Bee said:


> Within Types there are many viable expressions.
> 
> [...]
> 
> *Being the same as millions, does not mean conformity to a preset standard.*


Certainly. Difference within types is far too often diminished, and a good argument could be made that the type-based model induces that disregard for type-internal differences, by emphasising some aspects of the dimensions it measures (be that which side of a dimension you fall on, or which functions are most prominent) and not others (how close to the middle one is on a personality dimension, say, or how wide the gulf is between dominant and auxiliary for the individual). The categorisation system is decent, but it can lead easily to flawed interpretations...


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

FearAndTrembling said:


> JK Rowling recently came out as an INFJ. Score one for the good guys. They still list her as INFP though.


JK Rowling is delusional.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

O_o said:


> He seemed to me as you said before in our conversation. I agreed with you. The video you sent me was one of the sweetest things I watched, his interaction with Jackie Chan.


True
But the impetus of this was to explore, that same types is NOT an identical mold, and there exists at least two types of variations among same types, as expected my example proved more interesting than what it was brought to elucidate.


----------



## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Why is it any of your business _whom _knows their type and _whom _doesn't? (rolls eyes)

For that matter, I've never understood why people get their panties in a twist over people who are *mis*typed. Neither of these scenarios affect you in any way; you're just being judgmental.

Sometimes people are still on the path of self-understanding and grapple with the infinite set of inconsistencies and patterns that is human personality.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Fern said:


> Why is it any of your business _whom _knows their type and _whom _doesn't? (rolls eyes).


 True: If I went to my next door neighbour and harrassed him anything close to the silliness I do here, it would be a valid accusation what is it my business.
So, in the name of self preservation, I ask a general question to whoever wants to offer their opinions, without coersion.
What problem do you have with that?



> I've never understood why people get their panties in a twist over people who are *mis*typed. Neither of these scenarios affect you in any way; you're just being judgmental..


Why is it any of your business _whom gets their panties in a twist?_



> Sometimes people are still on the path of self-understanding and grapple with the infinite set of inconsistencies and patterns that is human personality.


*Despite that you are the first actual living INFJ I have spoken with, and it has disillusioned my ideal picture of that type, still, keep an open mind now for me to show you something valueable.* @nichya

You have complaints on me. This really reflects in general a *INFP*/*INFJ* misunderstanding.
Just for this, it was worthwhile for you to have logged on today.

This expresses *INFJ* *Fe-Ni*, as opposed to *INFP* *Fi-Ne*

1 - What is it your business - One of the most private (but others are not, Extroverts do not grasp this statement, when you may feel attacked and express this, most types will see it as over-sensative, for no reason. I think I understand)

2 - Neither of these scenarios affect you - True, but Ne is far more curious than you realize with your Ni, and it travels VERY far afield. Connected with Fi, most of my thoughts are on people and behaviours in many scenarios which never was or will be. VERY different to how you also think always about people, right?

3 - My "being judgmental" ... in your J-view, is incorrect for my type. Again, Ne unlike Ni, expands and deals with many many, far too many options and then must eliminate, unlike yours (Ni) which is accompanied by a subjective recognition that this option, "this is it". And with righteousness tell people what they need to do, in order to fit your idea, which as a subjective recognition - often defies being able to express it with clarity.

My judgemental with Ne, is how I travel _the path of self-understanding and grapple with the infinite set of inconsistencies and patterns that is human personality_.

It would be nice if you could open your mind, to view another perspective which other people have to deal with for the rest of their lives. It would be helpful to you as well since (for me) this is a major benifit from the MBTI.

From now on, realize there are other ways people process. No need to agree with it, just be aware it exists.


----------



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Zee Bee said:


> True: If I went to my next door neighbour and harrassed him anything close to the silliness I do here, it would be a valid accusation what is it my business.
> So, in the name of self preservation, I ask a general question to whoever wants to offer their opinions, without coersion.
> What problem do you have with that?
> 
> ...


I am sorry, I don't really understand how I am referred to or in what relation I am included in this talk? Is it the part I told someone they probably never have met an INFJ to idealize them so much?


----------



## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

You asked if I ever met one,
and the next day I did.
You attained prophesy


----------



## KeroPanda (Jan 8, 2010)

Retsu said:


> Hence my mistypes. I want to be likeable! I will type myself as a more caring type then I will be liked!
> It is know I know I am an ISTJ, but a terrible one. I can't even account.
> 
> Anyway point being, comparing to others of the type I think I am doesn't help - I don't feel like I am XXXX enough. I do not feel ISTJ enough and it is a daft notion, but it is a feeling I can't shake. I feel this way with all types.  It is however the way I know I am Si-dom - constant comparisons to what I know.


It does make the whole MBTI system seem a little useless. You are so different to the the profiles that are often provided by the ISTJ page that it might as well be removed.

When you had the ESFJ profile coupled by how active you have been on the PerC forums. I honestly believed perhaps that was in fact your type after all.

The only individuals that I have seen that are this active as ISTJ are Raz and [email protected] on typeC forums: How to Escape Female ISTJ - Page 3

They are much more of the joking type of ISTJ it seems, when combined with seriousness. Perhaps you would find more a connection with the ISTJs on that forum, most of them are probably a lot older now than when they first joined.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

KeroPanda said:


> It does make the whole MBTI system seem a little useless. You are so different to the the profiles that are often provided by the ISTJ page that it might as well be removed.
> 
> When you had the ESFJ profile coupled by how active you have been on the PerC forums. I honestly believed perhaps that was in fact your type after all.
> 
> ...


 @niss is pretty prolific and he always comes to mind when I think ISTJ. You know, on our forum he is actually addressed as King and when he posts in a thread it is automatically locked because what he says is so important, no one else's opinion matters. I am not mocking you, niss, you know your place as King. :3

Tell me how snowflakey I am, dear. Tell me how I am special <3

I do actually have an account on there. I'll have to post more often. Thanks


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## Fern (Sep 2, 2012)

Zee Bee said:


> True: If I went to my next door neighbour and harrassed him anything close to the silliness I do here, it would be a valid accusation what is it my business.
> So, in the name of self preservation, I ask a general question to whoever wants to offer their opinions, without coersion.
> What problem do you have with that?
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's an incoherent reply that hardly follows what I said.

You're annoying.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Okey


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

BTW, it's "Who," not "Whom."

:tongue: 

Who versus whom.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Zee Bee said:


> You asked if I ever met one,
> and the next day I did.
> You attained prophesy


Oh you mean @Fern ? oh lol, cmon


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

FlaviaGemina said:


> Why would you assume such a thing?
> 
> At the school where I work, lots of the teachers are NFP or SFP. Does that mean that they are any less bureaucratic than a stereotypical SJ? The thing is that teachers don't have a choice. The government makes up all sorts of rules and regulations and if the teachers want to keep their job, they'd better go along with it.
> 
> Also, don't underestimate the micro-managing skills of autocratic ESFPs, they can be far worse than XSTJ.


Either I did see it in the Meyers-Briggs Manual.
Or I wished I saw it there, so between us intuitives its all the same


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I struggled with lesson planning a bit, the more fixed the requirements, the harder it was for me to follow the plan. I found I had more trouble with the administrative and bureaucratic paperwork that had little or nothing to do with teaching.


Its a pity I did not have you as a teacher, I would have less to have forgotten, as more would have been things to use in the rest of my life!


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

Some people suffer mental disorders or mental illnesses that make it difficult for them to know their true selves.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

idoh said:


> I don't know but I have finally accepted that I am just really bad at this. One reason it's hard is because the internet is a mess of mbti... everyone has their own opinions on it so half the information you read ends up conflicting with everything else. ----> Back to square one


It is not exactly square one. Of all the functions you must have something definate!
Now work backwards by elimination.
If this idea sounds strange, you are *Ni*.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

emberfly said:


> Some people suffer mental disorders or mental illnesses that make it difficult for them to know their true selves.


Quit beating around the bush ... what do you think I've got?


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

"Caregivers"
Have you seen your avatar?!


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Zee Bee said:


> Its a pity I did not have you as a teacher, I would have less to have forgotten, as more would have been things to use in the rest of my life!



I came up with some creative ways to teach students who would have otherwise failed their English requirements. I also taught computer graphics on a shoestring budget (and no formal curriculum). I sought life elsewhere though. I work in satellite networks. I hope maybe to teach college someday.


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I came up with some creative ways to teach students who would have otherwise failed their English requirements. I also taught computer graphics on a shoestring budget (and no formal curriculum). I sought life elsewhere though. I work in satellite networks. I hope maybe to teach college someday.


 @FlaviaGemina
I knew an INFP who intuitively taught a "retarded" boy math, in the end he showed the teachers he was volenteering to help, that the boy through unconventional intuitive ways, had been taught the basics of algebra!
He was promptly "let go", it was an embaressment to them.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

Zee Bee said:


> "Caregivers"
> Have you seen your avatar?!


i am currently caring for the lioness in my avatar.

it looks a prototypical ESFJ avatar to me...


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## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I used to be an English teacher, sometimes I just can't help it. My goal in life is to be able to communicate more with less words and the only way to do that is to follow the rules. Crazy thing for an ENTP to admit!


Not really if the "rules" are descriptive rather than prescriptive and based on corpus research etc. This kind of "rule" is very compatible with Ne-Ti because it's a description of observable patterns.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

FlaviaGemina said:


> Not really if the "rules" are descriptive rather than prescriptive and based on corpus research etc. This kind of "rule" is very compatible with Ne-Ti because it's a description of observable patterns.


Rules: Grammar, spelling, and usage; stuff I used to hate when I was younger; now I find it useful.


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## FlaviaGemina (May 3, 2012)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Rules: Grammar, spelling, and usage; stuff I used to hate when I was younger; now I find it useful.


You're totally ignoring what I said. Did you also hate patterns when you were younger? Or did you perceive patterns as restrictive rules only when somebody else taught you them but as patterns when you spotted them yourself?


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Modal Soul said:


> i am currently caring for the lioness in my avatar.
> 
> it looks a prototypical ESFJ avatar to me...


Lovely
You changed your type - and which cat you demonstrate


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

Zee Bee said:


> Lovely
> You changed your type - and which cat you demonstrate


that's because my self-typings are never serious, but situational
yeah, pussy cats are better imo


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

FlaviaGemina said:


> You're totally ignoring what I said. Did you also hate patterns when you were younger? Or did you perceive patterns as restrictive rules only when somebody else taught you them but as patterns when you spotted them yourself?



Yeah I hated being forced into it. I didn't mind so much when it was something I discovered.


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## Kabosu (Mar 31, 2012)

Ambiguity, yo.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

O_o said:


> -One can understand the system very well and still not understand themselves within it (I'd say this is the main reason)


This is very true of me. Yet you'd be surprised how many people seem to think I don't know wtf I'm talking about because I am obviously not typed. It's more complex than that, unfortunately, particularly if you're not a stereotypical version of anything (I'm talking enneagram here; MBTI I haven't gotten into as much. Working on it).

I'd rather categorize myself as "typeless", than be mistyped and spread a false perspective around. That could really confuse people, you know?


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## littlemisscustard (Jan 7, 2015)

I've tested at INFJ from 16personalities.com 
Then an INFP at another website ( Tested later on and got INFJ )
My results were either INFJ or INFP. And I'm confused. 

I've read about the cognitive functions of an INFJ and an INFP, and I can admit this :
I can relate to all Fe, Se and Ti. But not so much for Ni, which is incredibly suspicious and weird remembering INFJs have strong Ni. Or maybe I do have a strong Ni but I never notice it (???) I dont know..see what I mean.
Can any of you tell me how to check if my Ni is working functionally? Or if any specific factors can affect my Ni? Or maybe even if I am and INFJ? *sobbing distantly*

Thank you in advance! Sorry if I am troubling you...

P.S. : Sorry for any grammatical or vocabulary mistake.


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

littlemisscustard said:


> I've tested at INFJ from 16personalities.com
> Then an INFP at another website ( Tested later on and got INFJ )
> My results were either INFJ or INFP. And I'm confused.
> 
> ...


It's not uncommon for INTJs and INFJs to question their type at some point because "Ni" descriptions sound too mystical or whatever, and you can read more about that issue in this post.

If you're interested — and _only_ if you're interested — in quite a lot of input from me on J/P, see this post.

And if you've let anybody bamboozle you into thinking that INFJs and INFPs are waaay different (_because functions_!) or that you can't possibly be an INFx (_because functions_!), you may want to look at this post.

As noted in that third linked post, "Am I INTJ or INTP?" is the most common dilemma in INTJforum type-me threads by a _wide_ margin — and that's because, contrary to what some of the cognitive function kids will tell you, INTJs are probably more like INTPs than any other type. (And ditto for INFJs and INFPs.)

If you've never taken the official "Step I" MBTI, it's here.

Another potential complicating factor when it comes to MBTI typing is that there's a fifth well-established personality dimension that's part of the Big Five but doesn't really have a corresponding MBTI dimension. If you're not familiar with "neuroticism," you can find a brief description of that (and a link to a short Big Five test) in this post.

Finally, in case they're useful, I've put roundups of some online INFJ and INFP profiles in the spoiler.


* *




_INFJ Profiles_
MBTI Manual (2nd Ed.)
MBTI Manual (3rd Ed.)
Keirsey (Please Understand Me)
Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk)
Hirsh & Kummerow (Lifetypes [abridged])
Berens & Nardi
personalitypage: Portrait
personalitypage: Personal Growth
personalitypage: Relationships
personalitypage: Careers

_INFP Profiles_
MBTI Manual (2nd Ed.)
MBTI Manual (3rd Ed.)
Keirsey (Please Understand Me)
Kroeger & Thuesen (Type Talk)
Hirsh & Kummerow (Lifetypes [abridged])
Berens & Nardi
personalitypage: Portrait
personalitypage: Personal Growth
personalitypage: Relationships
personalitypage: Careers


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## Lestany (Sep 2, 2014)

> As noted in that third linked post, "Am I INTJ or INTP?" is the most common dilemma in INTJforum type-me threads by a wide margin — and that's because, contrary to what some of the cognitive function kids will tell you, INTJs are probably more like INTPs than any other type. (And ditto for INFJs and INFPs.)


How are INTJs like INTPs?

I have two INTJs in my immediate family, my sister and father, and I relate more to my INFJ friends, even my ESFJ friend, before I relate to either of them. Oh, we have things in common, but a basic compare and contrast will reveal blatant differences that trace back to functions. 

Perfect example - I tried to explain functions to my sister and she cut me off a few sentences in inform me that what I was talking about was influenced by my own perception and couldn't be used as measurable evidence or proof. So? It makes sense!

Typical Te vs. Ti debateroud:

I'm not surprised that INTJs and INTPs get confused about which they are, but I don't think this suggests similarities, but rather, tendencies for mistypes based on INTJs being dominate perceivers, INTPs being dominant judgers. Also, you can be an self disciplined INTP and behave with J tendencies, test as an INTJ, but you're still an INTP, and may relate better to the INTP profile description. Yet another cause confusion.

I don't really expect to change your view on functions or anything, . :wink: But, I am curious about one thing - one of the authors in you linked to is Nardi. Have you read his book Neuroscience of Personality?


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## reckful (Jun 19, 2012)

Lestany said:


> I am curious about one thing - one of the authors in you linked to is Nardi. Have you read his book Neuroscience of Personality?


My understanding is that even Nardi himself doesn't claim that that study was anything more than a tentative, exploratory one. It involved 60 people and didn't come close to providing sufficient data to respectably validate any of the functions. And it's also been criticized on the grounds that EEGs are too crude a tool for this kind of stuff. Here's most of Wikipedia's list of "disadvantages" of EEG-based research:



Wikipedia said:


> *Relative disadvantages*
> 
> 
> Low spatial resolution on the scalp. fMRI, for example, can directly display areas of the brain that are active, while EEG requires intense interpretation just to hypothesize what areas are activated by a particular response.
> ...


And if there's been a single review of Neuroscience of Personality in any reasonably well-known psychology periodical, I haven't been able to find it.


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## Ksara (Feb 13, 2014)

I think I somewhat fall into this boat.
I'm not sure if this has already been stated (too many pages to read )

I find for myself that I can read the function descriptions, gain an understanding, learn how they differ from one another, but when I apply them to my experience everything becomes a little wobbly.

My first hurdle, how do I know I have indeed interpreted what is meant by these cognitive function definitions? I could have easily misinterpreted a single word which could change how I perceive the whole thing. I could have made an assumption without out even realising that wasn't the authors intent.
Secondly, how do I know that what I am experiencing is the same as what those words describe? If it looks like a cat, smells like a cat, acts like a cat, does that mean it is actually a cat? 
And thirdly, I am human and have biases. Perhaps I am seeing what I want to see, rather than what it actually is?


So to know if ones on the right track, make 500 posts or more about your ideas to let them be scrutinised to find what is true and accepted (and not something made up haha). But then there is always a grain of doubt, I can't know what others know and if what they know is correct (though it would be nice is someone could say 'you are type XXXX' and be correct)

And then I don't want to put a label on myself and claim to fit with a certain type if it turns out it doesn't really fit. That is, I don't want to fall into the trap of relating my experiences as type XXXX to answer another's question, which turns out to be misguided because I'm actually type ZZZZ.

I also don't want to display hopping around from type to type either (I think it can appear to discredit me somewhat picking a different type for each day of the week)

Just my thoughts


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## Bella2016 (Mar 5, 2013)

That would have been me - extremely contradictory enneagram (Type 7 ISFJ) to my personality type. Makes it very hard to work it out without outside help.


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## Modal Soul (Jun 16, 2013)

who am i, you ask? i am the dark knight


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

Modal Soul said:


> who am i, you ask? i am the dark knight


What sin did you commit to become banned since the previous communication - which was not banned?

If you are banned, how are you still able to post?

Perhaps the ban is on other people to not extend communication?


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## Zee Bee (Aug 19, 2014)

The Typeless Wonder said:


> This is very true of me. Yet you'd be surprised how many people seem to think I don't know wtf I'm talking about because I am obviously not typed. It's more complex than that, unfortunately, particularly if you're not a stereotypical version of anything (I'm talking enneagram here; MBTI I haven't gotten into as much. Working on it).
> 
> I'd rather categorize myself as "typeless", than be mistyped and spread a false perspective around. That could really confuse people, you know?


Generally I "default" into thinking the peson is *INFP* - and does not want to be "boxed in".
Or, a *Ne* who cannot deal with the endless options.

You may notice the internal contradiction which this creates.
This is called projection, which I went through.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Zee Bee said:


> Generally I "default" into thinking the peson is *INFP* - and does not want to be "boxed in".
> Or, a *Ne* who cannot deal with the endless options.
> 
> You may notice the internal contradiction which this creates.
> This is called projection, which I went through.


Eh. I've figured out my MBTI since then. Just last night actually. I am an ENTP, although the reason I didn't see that right away is because of misleading things people told me about the Fi/Te axis as well as a certain difficulty thinking of myself as an Extrovert. It's fairly apparent now that I understand what Ne-descriptions mean. Nothing to do with being boxed in, or confuzzled by endless options.

Enneagram still stands though. But at least I have a likely range to look at now, and my theory about 7 is looking more likely by the day.


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