# Low self-esteem due to my race/ethnicity, what can I do about it?



## Nick Carraway

*I have posted threads about hair color, eye color, and as of late even race/ethnicity and I feel that there are so many other things I have to offer this forum and WILL offer this forum. Now I have made friends on here and some people like my posts but there is an issue I have dealing with low self-esteem because of my race/ethnicity/

*Now generally, I am an optimistic and upbeat kind of guy. I make friends with people in real life and most of my friends in real life are either Black or White. 

Here is the thing, I am not insecure about my race/ethnicity in everything I do but what I am insecure about is my race/ethnicity impacting whether or not I get to be successful with women. As immature as it may sound, I have always wanted to date and hook up with girls of various nationalities* (if you think I am a pig for doing this, stop reading right here and don't even bother replying to the thread). 

*Recently I had a chance to go to Sweden with two of my friends in December but turned it down. They were going there to tour and of course hook up with some girls (one of them had done this before). I turned it down because I read online that Swedish girls hate Brown men so I decided not to go there at all because of that reason alone. I lied to my friends and told them that it is because I was busy. 

On one hand, I want to date various kinds of women of different nationalities but on the other hand I feel a fear of traveling or hooking up with girls of other races because I end up thinking women are racist against men of my color and will only sleep with either Black men or White men. A lot of this has to do with me growing up in one of the most backwards areas of the United States (the bible belt). 

I won't be here forever (thank god) but I have developed such a strong insecurity. It has been around ever since 2010 and a lot of it has only had to do with my desire to date interracial. Like I hear about Black men and White men having success hooking up with women in different countries but rarely hear of men of other races (especially brown) having that type of success. This bothers me so much and some days (not often these days), I think about it obsessively. 

Like how can I overcome my insecurity? I want to date women of different nationalities but feel they will immediately hate me because of my skin color (light brown).


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## Sat Nam

Just from the posts that you keep making, I think you're way too stuck on looks. People are a lot more than their appearance and until you realize this, you will continue to suffer from the insecurity that plagues you... If you continue along this path, you will never be able to overcome those insecurities because it is all that you see, wherever you go. And if comparing yourself to others is what gives you confidence, then your confidence will always be low because there will ALWAYS be better looking people or people who are better than you at different things... 

Your sense of self shouldn't be based on what others are doing, how many people you can hook up with, or how good you or others look. If you base something as important as your self-worth on how you look, then you're setting yourself up for failure as looks change and although you might not, people see beyond looks...

Again, based on your posts you seem to be overly concerned with (bordering obsessed with) looks and attractiveness. If that is all you think about when you see yourself and the world, then you should try to work on changing your perspective to include other intangible human qualities when you determine your self-worth and the worth of others. I wish you much luck in overcoming your insecurities : )

Sat Nam


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## jbking

Nick Carraway said:


> Like how can I overcome my insecurity?


Have you tried talking to women in your area and seeing what happens? In reading your post, there seemed to be this, "I'll get them before they get me," vibe that could well be causing some issues here. Try getting out of your head, talk to some people and consider what are the qualities of the women you want to date aside from their gender. What kind of personal characteristics are important to you? Does it matter how smart she sounds? Does it matter if she makes complete sentences? Does it matter if she is drunk most of the time? There are lots of other questions I could put here but I'd hope you get the idea that out of the 3 billion women on this world, there aren't likely to be a great percentage that are compatible with what you want to do. Know what kinds of characteristics you want and attempt to find those women that are compatible. I'm sure there are some out there though they may not be the easiest to find.


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## Nick Carraway

Characteristics don't mean as much to me to be honest, I am more into particular kinds of women. Mainly White and to a small extent Latin or mixed race types.

Don't value personality as much unless she is really weird (wears overalls or something). I can't help that part of me, I value appearance a lot because I try to keep myself in top shape and take care of my appearance.


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## surgery

To be honest, I've gone through the exact same feelings you seem to be having now. Steadily, I'm overcoming that negativity. Here's how:



Nick Carraway said:


> I want to date various kinds of women of different nationalities but on the other hand I feel a fear of traveling or hooking up with girls of other races because I end up thinking women are racist against men of my color and *will only sleep with either Black men or White men.*


Here's the funny thing: because I am 'half black half white, but subjectively do not find myself to be attracted to other black or "mixed" people, I projected that feeling onto others and made up any excuse possible to ignore contradictory evidence. *I had the opposite perspective as you: Everywhere I looked I saw "proof" that black people are universally accepted as uglier and completely undesirable, especially compared to Latino or Middle Eastern men.* I was so blinded by my self hate that the that t_he fact that my white mother married a black man didn't matter_. I just made up excuses like "she just married him because she can leech off of him" or stupid shit like, "he acts white."

To me it seems that, since you are probably not attracted/less attracted to women of your own ethnicity or darker, you can't internally accept the idea that some people are genuinely indifferent toward ethnicity or genuinely prefer brown or black skin tones. *This is not an accurate view of reality; it's a projection of your subjective experiences onto the outer world.*

CERTAINLY, there are white women who are exclusively attracted to white. There are some who are exclusively attracted to black men. These type of women may even be in the majority. HOWEVER, there are definitely women from whom this is not the case. *There are definitely women in all parts of the world who find brown skin to be equally as attractive as other skin tones OR preferable to other skin tones.*



Nick Carraway said:


> Like I hear about Black men and White men having success hooking up with women in different countries but *rarely hear of men of other races (especially brown) having that type of success*. This bothers me so much and some days (not often these days), I think about it obsessively.





Nick Carraway said:


> Why is it that you have *so many Arabs in France but rarely hear of them hooking up with French girls*? Why is that you have so many *Indians and Pakistanis in the UK and Canada but it is unheard of to see them dating White women there*? (not that I am into British girls) Why is it that you have so many Turks in Germany yet they rarely date White women there?


1. There probably are more interethnic relationships in these countries than you imagine, it's just that people don't feel a need to announce it to everyone/make a big deal out of it.

2. My honest opinion is that there is also a problem of culturally motivated fear that segregates white Europeans from immigrants who typically have darker skin. *Brown skin is not categorically less attractive to Caucasian/European women. However, men from the West Asia and South Asia are frequently STEREOTYPED as violent and misogynistic. Why?*

This is probably kind of controversial, but I think it has to do with political Islamophobia. The US and many of its European allies have troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. *The images of the the Arab world, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and to some extent India that are perpetuated by the media in the US and Europe tend to portray women in these countries as victims of jealous, misogynistic, violent, radicalist Islamic men. *We hear stories about frequent incidents of rape, domestic violence and even honor killings that go completely unpunished by law enforcement or about how women are forced to stay home, don't receive an education, aren't allowed to drive (in Saudi Arabia, I think) or participate in arranged marriages because of religious and ethnic traditions as well as and how women are forced to wear the hijab, niqab, chodor and burqa. These images are typecast and spread like wildfire and they paint an image of "the Middle East" and Islam not only as a source of terrorism, but also as completely unsafe for women. 

Basically, *when native Europeans perceive a clash in values, especially concerning the treatment of women, people freak the fuck out.* There are definitely some European nationalists who are blatantly racist, but the rest of the people are tend to be more open-minded or just vaguely prejudice but not hateful.

Recently, my white (blonde, blue eyed) mother flat out stated that she does not "like" Middle Eastern and Indian men. She made this comment right after there was a big news story about a girl who DIED after being ganged rape on a bus in India. *Her comment had nothing to do with the way Indian or Middle Eastern men LOOK. She was just AFRAID and her fear turned into hateful prejudice.*

This is a problem especially in places in Europe where there are a large number of Muslim immigrants who tend to have darker features/brown skin. These immigrant families tend to form tight-knit communities with strong cultural links to their regions of origin. Young immigrants are also encourage/expected to date within their commmunity by their families. I have heard plenty of stories about young Indian and Middle Eastern men and women whose family won't let them marry outside of their religion or ethnic group, especially if the potential spouse is not white. The same is sometimes true for Hispanics and African Americans in the US. This is mostly due to socio-economic status reasons, but *my point is that "brown people" can be equally as prejudiced against dating white people as the other way around.
*


Nick Carraway said:


> cannot be done, not attracted to asian girls, black girls, or even brown girls (there are exceptions here though)
> 
> I just like White girls and want to date them.


Just remember, though, that with an attitude like this...if a white girl does turn you down based on your skin color, well, she's not treating you any differently than you're treating women of these ethnicities. So, if it turns out that white women don't find you attractive, then you really can't get upset about it without sort of being a hypocrite 

However, if it's really that important that you date a white female, then the only word of advice I can give you are to try to be as "culturally white" as possible. Apart from that, just follow the same dating rules that basically apply to all other men like work out, stay well groomed, make a lot of money, listen well to women, avoid the "friend zone" yada yada yada. Basically, race makes little difference. What's important is confidence, economic security, making a girl feel safe, etc. That's the same no matter where you go in the world/what color your skin is.


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## Kriash

I feel like this fixation you have on your race and looks might spawn from the fact that all you seem to value in partners is their looks. It's quite shallow imo. If you can find things about girls you like that has nothing to do with how they look and base who you are attracted to on that, I think you might be able to become more accepting of yourself and how you look.


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## Nick Carraway

You guys kind of get it, but you don't get it. I am culturally an American, period, the only thing Brown about me is my appearance and even then people mix me up for other races. Thing is I don't hear of Brown men having success with White women or see Brown men in porn having sex with White women or any race of women so I get really insecure and almost OCD about it. 

Ya, there are Brown people that do that crazy stuff like you mention. There are White people who associate with the KKK. There are Black people who meet the ghetto stereotype. There are Latinos that are illegal immigrants. etc.

Yet, I hear of White women dating Black men and such in Europe, USA, and Canada. I never hear of a Brown player or a Brown guy who is a Don Juan which sets me into this self-doubt.

I value looks in a partner, because I keep myself in shape. If I am fit I am not dating some fat girl regardless of personality. Ethnicity wise I just prefer White women and Latinas are runner ups. I am attracted to Middle Eastern and Persian girls but have had so many bad experiences with them (In real life) that I cannot get myself to date them). 

Now I live in a part of the US where honestly, ONLY WHITE MEN are the ones getting laid like crazy by other races. I have had many Black friends and most of them have said they have never done it with a White girl before. The part of the US I live in is the dixie. 

*Here is my worry. I am none of those things that are negatively associated with Brown men. How bad does this hurt me if I want to get laid in Europe or Canada or somewhere like that? *


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## Razare

Nick Carraway said:


> Like how can I overcome my insecurity? I want to date women of different nationalities but feel they will immediately hate me because of my skin color (light brown).


You have to resolve the emotions causing the insecurity.

So insecurity, you recognize it, but generally the emotions we recognize are symptoms... they are emotions we choose to feel so we can avoid feeling the scarier emotions that lay below. Insecurity is the fear that women wont like you.

What causes this, is likely a more overt and less pretty emotion, since you're willing to feel and recognize the insecurity.

What will being with a woman from a different ethnicity do for you? Why is that important?

Now, when you can answer that, why is that reason important? What motivates the importance of that reason?

If you arrive at lust, you have to dig below that. It's very very difficult, but recently, I realized my lust manifests because deep deep down, I want a loving and very close connection with another person.... yet I feared I wouldn't have that connection.

So my natural male response is to block that fear, covering up the truth below, and over the top, I wouldn't use insecurity but I'd have an overly strong sexual drive toward women... trying to force a connection and deny that fear. Since I am intellectual, I would reject strong lust as well, and cover it up with a layer of detachment.

I would imagine what lies below for you is something different than lust or insecurity, because you're overtly recognizing both of those... meaning what lies below for you, must be different.

When you resolve what lies down below, the insecurity will go away, but also, your need for women of another ethnicity may dissolve as well (if they're connected.) This doesn't preclude you from being in a relationship with someone of another ethnicity, it just loses its importance when you reach that stage. (Which should make you more confident in that regard as well, so that's a bonus.)


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## Nick Carraway

Razare, that made a lot of sense to me, great advice I must admit. It can work because obviously in attraction you never want to put someone on a pedestal. Yet, I find that I just have the liking for someone different I guess. Like I cannot get with a girl that I am too familiar with. Deep down I want to be with a girl from another country (or heck even a White American or Latina American girl), she doesn't even need to have good English, and hook up with her and then be on with my life. Like I know a lot of women in Europe don't really value relationships as much and I guess I don't either. For long term relationships I want a girl that is different from me too.

Like as a child I felt my parents restricted me a lot and there was so much about my heritage I grew to dislike that I just want to be more Westernized and American. My parents don't care who I date or marry and I want to make sure I don't waste that opportunity getting with a Brown girl, even if she is a 9/10 on the looks scale and is the perfect match for me because I just want someone that is different. 

Growing up I felt more comfortable around White people and Black people and heck even East Asians. Now a days I see myself loving White girls and Latina girls (exotic looking girls from Brazil for example) as a result of that. To me I guess I just want these women because they are so different from me and I am attracted to them (unlike Asian girls who I have no attraction towards). I can even find Black-White mixed girls attractive too but in general I am not into Black girls though (there have been exceptions). To be frank, I want to date girls that are White or Latina because I am attracted to them and because they are so different for me. *Even with White girls I like the European kind more (excluding british because they are too much like Americans) than American yet I feel that there is so much racism in countries like France, Spain, Italy, or Scandinavian countries that me having success with these kinds of women will become impossible.*

Yet it all boils down to me feeling that being Brown will work against me no matter how much I improve myself and that the White guy or Latino guy will have to do less work in improving himself to make himself the better option. Which in turns fuels my insecurity. 

Like I have NEVER met an Indian or Middle Eastern or Asian guy out there who has MADE IT with these kinds of women and managed to have success with them and nor have I heard of men like that in porn or such that have had these successes so as a result I get this low self esteem and this only relates to dating. 

And here I am....


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## countrygirl90

Indeed men are visual creatures .
I don,t think physical appearance matters more to a woman than a man, what women usually focus on men are the basic qualities like personality ,confidence and power .Even if a man is not so good looking but is confident and sure of himself ,he can impress women with his prowess and sense of humor .Today's metrosexual lifestyle has made most men so self conscious about themselves, that they are forgetting the basic instincts between a man and woman which attracts then to each other ,no matter race or color.


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## fihe

it seems that you think most women wouldn't be interested in brown men. that is simply not true. you probably are not looking in the right places. maybe you can meet some women in a cultural organization that are interested in meeting men of different races and ethnicities.

What exactly is your ethnicity, if you don't mind me asking?


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## Up and Away

If I was you, I'd start throwing around phrases like "exotic treasure... "

Shit like that.

You are just a smaller minority, that will go through a different set or progression of lessons as others, which, can yes hurt your self esteem, or it can create innovation.


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## fihe

Mister Wolf said:


> If I was you, I'd start throwing around phrases like "exotic treasure... "
> 
> Shit like that.


lolwut


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## Up and Away

huesos said:


> lolwut


Hey, what can I say, it's an exclusive club..


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## surgery

Nick Carraway said:


> You guys kind of get it, but you don't get it. I am culturally an American, period, the only thing Brown about me is my appearance and even then people mix me up for other races. Thing is I don't hear of Brown men having success with White women or see Brown men in porn having sex with White women or any race of women so I get really insecure and almost OCD about it.
> 
> Ya, there are Brown people that do that crazy stuff like you mention. There are White people who associate with the KKK. There are Black people who meet the ghetto stereotype. There are Latinos that are illegal immigrants. etc.
> 
> Yet, I hear of White women dating Black men and such in Europe, USA, and Canada. I never hear of a Brown player or a Brown guy who is a Don Juan which sets me into this self-doubt.
> 
> I value looks in a partner, because I keep myself in shape. If I am fit I am not dating some fat girl regardless of personality. Ethnicity wise I just prefer White women and Latinas are runner ups. I am attracted to Middle Eastern and Persian girls but have had so many bad experiences with them (In real life) that I cannot get myself to date them).
> 
> Now I live in a part of the US where honestly, ONLY WHITE MEN are the ones getting laid like crazy by other races. I have had many Black friends and most of them have said they have never done it with a White girl before. The part of the US I live in is the dixie.
> 
> *Here is my worry. I am none of those things that are negatively associated with Brown men. How bad does this hurt me if I want to get laid in Europe or Canada or somewhere like that? *



I'm pretty sure people on this thread "get it".

1. Negative stereotypes about brown skinned people will only affect you as much as you let them. Black men tend to be negatively stereotyped as either "thuggish" criminals or as a hypermasculine, athletes with big dicks. But they're just stereotypes. It's not most black men. Those that do fit that stereotype, however, decide to go into porn because they know it's desirable. Indian and Middle Eastern men tend to be negatively stereotyped as nerdy or misogynistic because, well, probably there are a lot of "brown" people in the US who focus on academic performance at the expense of, say, athletics and because of our media portrays Islam. We've all heard these stereotypes and have to deal with them. The fact that they exist though doesn't mean you'll never end up dating someone who is attractive and Caucasian.

2. Also, there's not a lot of Middle Eastern, Indian and East Asian men in porn probably because there would be a strong cultural stigma against it. There's a higher percentage of "brown people" who forgo participating in porn because of thoughts like "What if my family finds out?" or "How will this affect my future?" RELATIVE to the number of black and white men. Plus, also a lot of men have the same insecurities probably. There tends to be more white and black men in porn because there is less of a stigma in those ethnic communities about appearing in porn. The same reasoning goes for why you don't see "brown players". Either it's just because a lot of brown skin men fall for negative stereotypes and assume they're unwanted. Probably thousands of "brown" people are experiencing the same CONFIRMATION BIAS that you are right now. It's not because people aren't attracted to brown skinned men or because only white and black men are attractive. As for latinos, in my opinion they ARE stereotyped as "players" in the US, but there's probably not a whole lot of stories about them with white women, in particular, but it's probably because they tend obsess over "hooking up with" white women specifically. 

3. And like I said, interracial relationships in the US and Europe are becoming increasingly common, even for "brown" people. It's just that you don't hear about it because no one feels the need to brag about it, because people more or less it interpret it as racist to think that it's news worthy to date outside your race.

4. Also, there's probably a lot of racism in the South where you live, especially regarding interracial relationship, especially towards women who can get pregnant. Honestly, that's white men being possess, which is disgusting. But, to be honest, I don't think that's racially exclusive. You will definitely find ignorant black men who complain about how black women leave them for white men. Then the black women turn around and say the same thing: "There's no good black men." You will hear the same thing from Asian men, etc. It's all misinformation, prejudice and worry. Your best "prospects" with meeting women outside your ethnicity are probably in Europe, especially Eastern Europe or Russia, where brown skin may be seen as "exotic", or big cities in a America. With that being said, you'll probably receive some racism from other men, like a shitty jealous mentality of "why are your trying to steal our women?"

5. At this point, there's probably nothing I can say to get through to you, though. I mean what do you want people on this thread to tell you? "Yes, white women only like white men, so stop asking." I haven't seen a single response to any of your threads that reflects that mentality. Some women have commented how they have a preference for blues eyes or whatever, but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean you're out of luck. If it concerns you enough you could probably just get to know some white women as friends and flat out ask them. Look at their reactions. You may find that some of them act like they're hiding something (because it's true for them, but they don't want to hurt your feelings) while others are genuinely more open-minded. Some may be sympathetic and understand your feelings while others may just get turned off by your lack of self-esteem. It largely depends on the person.

And for the record, there are tons of white men who have a terrible time hooking up with women of their own race. Why? Maybe they're not confident, aren't in shape, "too bland", blah blah blah. Those white men that do tend to have sex more frequently/easily are probably 1. Either in good shape 2. Race doesn't cross their mind as an issues so they don't let it hold them back from talking to women.


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## knittigan

As a white woman who is attracted to people of lots of different ethnicities, I'd be far more turned off by the way that you fetishise race than I would the colour of your skin (which is to say not at all -- I find brown skin very beautiful). There's nothing inherently wrong with being attracted to a variety of people, but you'll find that not many people like being treated like an exotic fucktoy because of something as superficial as the colour of their skin. I don't subscribe to the whole neo-racist "I don't see colour" thing, but nor do I treat anyone like the colour of their skin will tell me anything useful about what kinds of person they are. 

As others have mentioned, you seem overly focussed on appearance and I have little doubt that that attitude doesn't come across to the women around you. I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of people who discriminate against people with brown skin in America because of Islamophobia, as another poster pointed out, but the way that you seem to see race first, people second is something that may be very off-putting to the women of other ethnicities who would find you attractive. 

Just something for you to think about.


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## Nick Carraway

okay first of all I am not going to lie to you guys and say I am this super open minded dude who is going to date all races equally, I am just not physically attracted to asian women or most black women (though there are exceptions)

I find White women to be the most attractive but down south they only date White men. Those are the kind of women I want to date. Now if someone can quit this bullshit about "oh quit looking at skin color" then that would be great because it is NOT HELPING. As a matter of fact it would be good if White women on this thread altogether stopped giving advice since they seem to have an issue with me liking White women. Let me make it clear, no I won't like you just because you are White, if you are White and attractive to me I will like you because god forbid I even go anywhere near some radical manhating femnist.

I want to know how I can help my mindset and start making my desire to be probably the first Brown player a reality. Honestly, the kind of women I like are Blondes, and I have never seen or heard of a Brown guy date one. 

Hell yes I focus on appearance, because it matters to me. I would date a bimbo in a heartbeat, one that was dumb and had a shallow view of the world and hook up with her if she looked good. End of story. No, personality means little to me, it is probably 20 percent of the whole battle.

What would really help here is if I heard about Brown men who have MADE IT as players and the path they had to take.


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## Nick Carraway

Like if only there were stories of Asian, Indian, or Brown men going to Europe and having success with women or having success with different kinds of women in the US, in Canada, or in any developed country it would help me out. I hear about how Black men have success with women in Europe and in my head I think "but they did nothing to deserve it other than have black skin". I get this feeling that no matter how much I work on my appearance, confidence, personality, or anything, I will not be able to score with women in Canada, France, or Sweden because of my ethnic appearance alone and nothing else.


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## surgery

Nick Carraway said:


> I want to know how I can help my mindset and start making my desire to be probably the first Brown player a reality. Honestly, the kind of women I like are Blondes, and I have never seen or heard of a Brown guy date one.


Work out, wear athletic clothing/dress like "stud", dress up occasionally, then follow the advice of currently existing "players" and you will achieve the same results.

PUA Lingo | Pick Up Artist Encyclopedia


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## Nick Carraway

surgery said:


> *Work out, wear athletic clothing/dress like "stud", dress up occasionally,* then follow the advice of currently existing "players" and you will achieve the same results.
> 
> PUA Lingo | Pick Up Artist Encyclopedia


did all that, even got voted into beautifulpeople.com

what, do you think i am ugly or something?


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## surgery

Nick Carraway said:


> did all that, even got voted into beautifulpeople.com
> 
> what, do you think i am ugly or something?


Of course not. I was just thinking of the things a "player" might do. That being said, there's obviously more to being a "player' than just looks. I guess it's like attitude, how you communicate. I've heard things like it's actually "ok" to subtly touch a woman (like put your hand on her shoulder, touch her, etc), whereas most men think to do the opposite because they don't want to seem creepy. Also, I've heard to focusing on a woman's lips while your talking to her subconsciously arouses her (!). Holding your body at a certain angle to seem less open (thus desperate) and mentioning how some other girl supposedly hit on you/wants you or whatever automatically makes women seem more interested because you become "desirable". Essentially, she'll want you because other women do.

I don't know how much of this actually works. I'm just saying, these are the kind of thing that "make or break" most guys, but that players and pick up artists master.


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## surgery

This, basically:






This guy wrote a book called _Tao of Badass_, which is supposedly ~*~*~*amazinggg~**~*~


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## mental blockstack

For you, the hindered self esteem is the issue itself.
At least you're not a brown female.


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## surgery

GYX_Kid said:


> For you, the hindered self esteem is the issue itself.
> At least you're not a brown female.


Does that imply that the way brown skinned women look _is_ the actual problem, not just their attitude?


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## fihe

most European countries have become quite racially diverse, and so have the United States and Canada. therefore, I really don't see why most white women in those places would reject you due to your skin color. I think you just get that idea because of where you live.


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## Nick Carraway

huesos said:


> most European countries have become quite racially diverse, and so have the United States and Canada. therefore, I really don't see why most white women in those places would reject you due to your skin color. I think you just get that idea because of where you live.


Racially diverse as in women there hook up with Black men and that is it. I don't care if women hook up with Black men, that happens in the US. I am talking about women hooking up with men that aren't black and white, does that even happen in Europe?


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## Paradox1987

Nick Carraway said:


> Honestly, the kind of women I like are Blondes, and I have never seen or heard of a Brown guy date one.


 My girlfriend has blonde hair, green eyes flecked with grey. I have brown skin, black hair etc. I also don't think I'm either the first or the only person with brown skin to be able to say this...



> Hell yes I focus on appearance, because it matters to me. I would date a bimbo in a heartbeat, one that was dumb and had a shallow view of the world and hook up with her if she looked good. End of story. No, personality means little to me, it is probably 20 percent of the whole battle.


Good luck with that.




knittigan said:


> * the way that you seem to see race first, people second is something that may be very off-putting to the women of other ethnicities who would find you attractive.*


I don't think I can extol the virtues of this piece of advice enough.


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## Schweeeeks

I don't agree with the view point, but in any case:
I don't know if girls are naturally against brown guys...I don't live in Europe, so I can't vouch for how unconventional or traditional it is over there, but most women I know go for nice features regardless of race. Your personality does mean a lot though. Girls are less visually based than guys. OR if you want to skip out on personality, you might be able to get a bimbo if you pay up a LOT. ex: lots of gifts, expensive dates, etc:. Can't guarantee she will be loyal or exactly how much you would have to invest, but there seems to be a decent amount of girls that mainly care about that. Doubt shallowness bothers them either.
Race isn't really a factor as long as you look good.


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## Nick Carraway

I have been voted into beautifulpeople.com and I take care of my appearance but I do live in the deep south. It is painfully obvious that I am obsessed with this, is there really any shortcut to getting over this obsession period?


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## Schweeeeks

I'm not debating whether you are good looking or not. You have mentioned many times over that you are. That's not a factor (at least where I live). Have you ever tried to go with the money route with some girls down there? A lot of women will forgive (for lack of a better word) qualities they would not traditionally go for as long as you are willing to show them the time of their life. It's not a 100% shot though...it does suck because it can get costly.


----------



## Nick Carraway

Moop said:


> I'm not debating whether you are good looking or not. You have mentioned many times over that you are. That's not a factor (at least where I live). Have you ever tried to go with the money route with some girls down there? A lot of women will forgive (for lack of a better word) qualities they would not traditionally go for as long as you are willing to show them the time of their life. It's not a 100% shot though...it does suck because it can get costly.


Ya but I am a 20 year old college student, I am lucky to be in university without a loan.


----------



## fihe

Nick Carraway said:


> Racially diverse as in women there hook up with Black men and that is it. I don't care if women hook up with Black men, that happens in the US. I am talking about women hooking up with men that aren't black and white, does that even happen in Europe?


I'm sure it's definitely not just black or white men. the population of Middle Eastern, East Asian, and South Asian people in Europe is growing, especially in countries such as Britain and France. now, I'm not European so I can't say for sure what the women there like, but people who grow up around people of many other ethnicities are likely to consider them as romantic partners.

I'm American and I grew up in a very diverse area. I used to have a preference for East Asian guys but now I don't have any particular racial or ethnic preference.

this doesn't have to do with dating, but you should check out some brown guys on YouTube that seem to have become pretty successful and have fans of all races: MalumTV, AreWeFamousNow, TrueStoryASA, JusReign, JayFluent, ZaidAliT...oh wow, there are lots


----------



## TWN

I hate when this happens.

This really is your issue. Your self esteem, your confidence, your shitty ass sense of dignity.

I am black and I have ve faced rejection because of my skin color, and I still have never thought "white women are so much more good looking". Why? Well, because I honestly believe Black and Indian women are the most beautiful.

*Your problem is not your skin; it is the fact that you think everyone but you is attractive*

Thats it. 

For some reason you dont see beauty in yourself. 

*Don't listen to anyone that tells you to go different route when attracting women because one day you will want to settle down, or at least have a real conversation with a woman, and at that time she, whoever she is, will smell the stench of your rotting self worth and vomit. Then she will ignore you because deep down inside you are carrying enough baggage to suffocate her.*

My advice? 
*
1)* Grow up.

*2)* Begin your confidence building by creating a solid foundation; figure yourself out. 

*>*Who are you, really? 
*>*What do you stand for? 
* >*What will you fight for?

*3) *Step completely out of your comfort zone. Everyday.

* >*Ask the most attractive women out, and refuse to deal with any thoughts that pop into your head that are not related to her ass.

*4)* Work on yourself 24/7; do whatever you have to do to feel good. Whether it be playing a sport, or working out, or eating healthy.

*
Confidence is not something that we are born with; and it is not a trait that anyone "deserves". You earn it. **Feeling good about yourself isnt all its cracked up to be when you are an adult; if you don't pay attention it can all disintegrate in front of your eyes.**

I think that is what happened, and instead of dealing with the real problem you decide to use the played out "They dont like me because im black/brown/yellow" excuse.*

*Have some respect for yourself *and deal with your issues head on instead of bitching about your perception of others preferences. Because all of those women..may as well not be attracted to brown guys, but at the end of the day that does not concern you, or your failing self confidence.


Thats all I have.

I hope you find your common sense sometime soon, I hate seeing people struggling with skin-color issues.


----------



## FlightsOfFancy

what is your race/ethnicity btw?


----------



## Razare

Nick Carraway said:


> Razare, that made a lot of sense to me, great advice I must admit. It can work because obviously in attraction you never want to put someone on a pedestal. Yet, I find that I just have the liking for someone different I guess.
> 
> ...
> 
> Like I have NEVER met an Indian or Middle Eastern or Asian guy out there who has MADE IT with these kinds of women and managed to have success with them and nor have I heard of men like that in porn or such that have had these successes so as a result I get this low self esteem and this only relates to dating.
> 
> And here I am....


Your reasons make sense for you, and I get where you're coming from with them.

The best option to achieve your goal is to move to a new location that's more populated in people of differing ethnicity. My area, for example, there are plenty of white women here who do not want the average backwoods, American "red neck" that largely populates my region.

A guy from Asia could easily interest them.

Guys around here that are younger, try to craft themselves into something more metropolitan to maintain sexual appeal to a demographic of females who grew up on twilight and thus pretty much reject anything our local culture represents. Being from another country, with an accent, pretty much accomplishes the same thing.

That's my 2 cents to try and get you started, good luck.


----------



## series0

So it seems quite clear from what you say that YOU are the limiting factor in your equations. You decided not to let all those hot Swedish women even have a shot at you. You have a self-image identity problem. It means you truly think there is something about being brown that is worse. You need to address that and get yourself right and then tour Sweden.


----------



## Nick Carraway

I decided to ignore Sweden entirely though it was my chance to be out of the country. I have heard so much online that women there will only sleep with Black men or White men and I imagined this scenario in my head where I approach a beautiful woman and get rejected because of my skin color and ethnic appearance, nothing else. Sucks really bad but it almost consumes me entirely to the point I had to say no to a chance to travel.


----------



## redballoon

@Nick Carraway
Tell me, does your race actually matter to you personally? Does it actually bother you that you aren't white or black, but are the delicious sun kissed caramel that you are? Does it bother you that you've got intensely beautiful brown eyes, the brightness of which can only be seen up close? Or does it only bother you that YOU THINK you can't get laid because of anecdotal bullshit evidence you've read on the internet? Do you really think anyone who isn't as deluded as you is even posting stories about how happy they are in an interracial relationship? These stories are selling you something and you're buying it. They are not reality.

Now tell me, how many women have you actually talked to in the past, oh I don't know, three months? And when I say talked, I mean with humor and happiness in your heart. With this mindset, that answer is ~0.

Dude, I've been where you are. I think @_TWN_ is probably close to spot on. You need someone (probably some pretty blonde girl) to look you in the eyes and tell you just how beautiful you are. Maybe nobody told you that as a kid. But nobody is going to tell you because you are in your low. So you have to tell yourself how beautiful you are. You have to believe it. You have to believe that anyone who says otherwise IS WRONG.

I want you to go look in the mirror, and look into your own eyes until you can see all the little details. Feel your hair, lick your lips. If you don't think you're beautiful right now, you better go look harder until you find a reason to think you're beautiful.
This exercise helped me to change my self conception. I saw into my eyes, and I saw I'm as beautiful as anyone else. When I truly smile, when I throw out my repression in favor of HUMAN PASSION, I'm more beautiful than anyone. Someone doesn't agree? What makes you think I care at all? I have more options for companionship than I can exhaust even if I could find all those women. So do you.

Eventually, you'll just match up your real life experiences with your bullshit mental reality and see that they don't match. You just have to have the courage to go actually talk to people in your community. Add value. Do you have interesting things to talk about? Can you make a woman laugh? Can you make her feel happy to be with you? If you can, and you need to be able to in order to win this game, then you will get the absolution you desperately need.

Start small... make friends with girls and go dancing with them (no not at clubs). That's one of the major things that I did to feel awesome about myself, and I really didn't even do it very many times. But it proves to yourself that you can go out with girls, that they'll like you just for being uninhibited, and that all the stuff you thought was important was not relevant. As you live your life, you'll soon realize that race doesn't mean anything, that looks aren't important beyond basic symmetry/fitness.

And for the record, I've met more than a couple brown men who are players. Do you know why they are players? They don't have this hangup.
Plenty of women are open to *men* with brown skin (_we are not *brown* *men*_). I myself (Indian, but American raised) have been with/dated women of various races, primarily European, some East Asian, etc. Women everywhere are biologically very similar, and many are not going to give up the chance for 'biological winning' because of something so petty as race. Get off the computer and hack your life. Stop making excuses. Accept that your current thinking is unproductive, unhealthy, and fallacious. In other words, accept that you're wrong about no white girls wanting to have sex with you. I know what that feels like. Nobody can help you with your self defined problems. Help yourself.

Don't respond to this with some excuse about the Deep South or whatever it is. Just hear it with an open mind and an open heart and come to realize that I am right.


----------



## fihe

Say, @Nick Carraway, maybe you should check out these pages:

AskMen: Interracial Dating
Tumblr: We Love Interracial
Tumblr: Colour Regardless


----------



## Nick Carraway

black guys hooking up with white girls doesn't do shit for me, seriously


----------



## fihe

Nick Carraway said:


> black guys hooking up with white girls doesn't do shit for me, seriously


not sure if you're referring to the pages I linked, but they have much more than that


----------



## Nick Carraway

I know the world is dating interracial, what makes me pissed off and insecure is that brown men aren't getting a part of the action, especially not with white women.


----------



## Angelus

What the hell. This thread is so full of such weird crap I can't even begin to understand.

Firstly, I have never heard of a single women who would have something in particular against brown guys. And I live next to Sweden if that matters. 

And I doubt most women even care about race at all. Most people are attracted to personality first, then the physical qualities.

Also I must say that I think it's sick that you think personality doesn't matter. It actually makes me pretty mad. Maybe that's the reason that you can't fathom how other people probably don't care if you're black, brown or white or whatever. Not everyone makes their decisions based solely on looks. In fact, most don't.


----------



## Nick Carraway

redballoon

wow, insightful, helpful, moving, and inspirational post

you should really work in healthcare, SERIOUSLY!


----------



## FlightsOfFancy

Nick Carraway said:


> *black guys hooking up with white girls doesn't do shit for me, seriousl*y





Nick Carraway said:


> I know the world is dating interracial, *what makes me pissed off and insecure is that brown men aren't getting a part of the action, especially not with white women.*


Honestly, I don't know you, probably will never know you, and sadly, have no intention of trying to.

Your feelings of racial inferiority and complexes seem to come from a core issue: You are racist, and I mean this unequivocally--not simply the de facto "everyone is somewhat racist" credo. You seem like the type that, if not for your genetic predisposition to 'brownness', would find home on the nearest KKK-centric site. Your threads drip with so much insecurity and self-hatred because of your skin color that it makes me wonder if we can even help you; perhaps you should see a Dr. about this?

In all honesty, this level of obsession with 'whiteness' and what 'whites think of X' spammed on a PERSONALITY FORUM dedicated to more than just the superficial, is kind of worrying. I wonder if your 'let down' is simply because you are viewing everyone through a racial lense and not working the focus to see anything else. In that case, I am happy white women don't go out with you because you would be after their 'whiteness' and not them..


----------



## Nick Carraway

So I look at an interracial couple between a Black guy and White girl and I don't go "awww they are so cute" and you call me out to be a racist. Nothing said I oppose those couples, I simply said those couples don't do anything for me.

1. Those kinds of couples are highly promoted and in fact seen as progressive in a lot of areas
2. Who is to say those same woman would touch a man of my color
3. There are plenty of women out there who will date Black men for the stereotype but not go near any other kind of minority

Most of my friends before I hit college have been Black and in high school we often had a lot of talks in class about interracial dating involving Black people (since I went to a mostly Black high school).

If you want to call me a racist then go for it, I am not trying to please the UN or the Liberal Democrats (who by the way find it okay to rip on people of my color yet claim they love everyone). In fact, politically I kind of lean more towards the Republicans and ya I am conservative.

I would not care that much about a Black man dating a White woman, if it was in my power and I saw a Black man struggling with women, I would be the one to help him hook up with a girl of any color. Yet my time on these boards has taught me that if I as a Brown man ever needed help hooking up with a White girl, those same liberals who claim to love everyone would do everything in their power to hold me back and keep me from doing it. In fact my worry now becomes how tough those "tolerant" and "accepting" people who feel the need to call everyone a racist would make my life miserable if I was to date a girl who happened to be White.


----------



## FlightsOfFancy

Nick Carraway said:


> So I look at an interracial couple between a Black guy and White girl and I don't go "awww they are so cute" and you call me out to be a racist. Nothing said I oppose those couples, I simply said those couples don't do anything for me.
> 
> 1. Those kinds of couples are highly promoted and in fact seen as progressive in a lot of areas
> 2. Who is to say those same woman would touch a man of my color
> 3. There are plenty of women out there who will date Black men for the stereotype but not go near any other kind of minority
> 
> Most of my friends before I hit college have been Black and in high school we often had a lot of talks in class about interracial dating involving Black people (since I went to a mostly Black high school).
> 
> If you want to call me a racist then go for it, I am not trying to please the UN or the Liberal Democrats (who by the way find it okay to rip on people of my color yet claim they love everyone). In fact, politically I kind of lean more towards the Republicans and ya I am conservative.
> 
> I would not care that much about a Black man dating a White woman, if it was in my power and I saw a Black man struggling with women, I would be the one to help him hook up with a girl of any color. Yet my time on these boards has taught me that if I as a Brown man ever needed help hooking up with a White girl, those same liberals who claim to love everyone would do everything in their power to hold me back and keep me from doing it. In fact my worry now becomes how tough those "tolerant" and "accepting" people who feel the need to call everyone a racist would make my life miserable if I was to date a girl who happened to be White.


Sigh the "I have black friends" rebuttal.


EVERY thread you make is somehow racially oriented; it seems like a fixation. You keep mentioning 'white girls' 'white girls' etc. There is some self-hatred and exaltation that is blatantly obvious, and if I were to go further; I'd wager that you do harbor some more racist sentiments than normal. I don't care about your political or social affiliations; the fact that you keep making these threads centering around "whiteness" and the rejection of "non-whiteness" makes me believe you have some sort of complex. Do you secretly want to be white? Is this something was was in your culture? Do women of your mother's color and origin appall you?

There seems to be a DEEP sense of inferiority due to your race (whatever that may be), and despite many people here relating that they indeed do give it that much gravitas, you keep on with these diatribes of the contrary. The problem is in YOU, not society.


----------



## Nick Carraway

I actually do have Black friends but okay, imagine in your mind I have none. Yet I will talk about race. When I joined this forum and made my preference clear it was JUST Black women and Black users in general giving me a tough time for my preference. Get it through your head, just because I am a minority does not mean I am somehow your brother or have that much in common with you. Both you and I will have different experiences. And no I will not date Black women or Asian women because I am not physically attracted to most I have seen in real life, period. Before you come in and tell me I am somehow limited in my experience, I have lived in a town that was 70 percent Black, went to a high school that was 90 percent Black, and had to sit through class through class hearing about race and how much the world hates "us" (meaning minorities). So don't give me any of that garbage.

So in case you want to say I am using the "I have black friends" excuse, well guess what pal, I went to a high school that was 90 percent Black and most people I ran into daily were Black so as a result I have Black friends. I didn't actively seek out Black people to hang out with just so I can satisfy some left wing nutcase.

*No, Brown women do not "appall" me, in fact I am attracted to them just as I am attracted to Latina and most of all White women. But I have repeated that we hardly have any in my area. I am friends with Black and Asian women but would not date them because I am not attracted to them, end of story. If that makes me the racist then let it be because it seems like, oddly enough, Black users on here have the biggest issue with me having attraction towards White women and how exactly is that going to stop me from being attracted to them?

Do you even want to help out or do you want to argue?
*


----------



## redballoon

FlightsOfFancy said:


> Honestly, I don't know you, probably will never know you, and sadly, have no intention of trying to.
> 
> Your feelings of racial inferiority and complexes seem to come from a core issue: You are racist, and I mean this unequivocally--not simply the de facto "everyone is somewhat racist" credo. You seem like the type that, if not for your genetic predisposition to 'brownness', would find home on the nearest KKK-centric site. Your threads drip with so much insecurity and self-hatred because of your skin color that it makes me wonder if we can even help you; perhaps you should see a Dr. about this?
> 
> In all honesty, this level of obsession with 'whiteness' and what 'whites think of X' spammed on a PERSONALITY FORUM dedicated to more than just the superficial, is kind of worrying. I wonder if your 'let down' is simply because you are viewing everyone through a racial lense and not working the focus to see anything else. In that case, I am happy white women don't go out with you because you would be after their 'whiteness' and not them..


I gotta say, I think its probably his porn addiction in addition to not having a real role model in our culture who is 'brown.' Its short sighted, crippling, and borne out of totally immature thinking. It doesn't mean he's a racist necessarily, as I feel I have also had similar thoughts, and I grew out of them. Not having good sexual experiences, feeling isolated, and then watching lots of porn will do this to you. I can't really judge him so harshly. Of course, he could be a shitty person, I don't know, but he doesn't seem like it.



Nick Carraway said:


> redballoon
> 
> wow, insightful, helpful, moving, and inspirational post
> 
> you should really work in healthcare, SERIOUSLY!


Haha, just talking from experience. It was a shitty thing to have in the back of my mind, and I hate that anyone ever thinks like this. Its not right, and its downright ignorant to believe what you do. I'd like to see you move out of this. Seriously man, if you want a role model, I was just it for you. Nobody was that for me. I got lucky and met others who showed me reality. Do what I've said, over a few months, and you should be feeling much better.


----------



## Nick Carraway

Redballoon, I notice you said you have dated mainly White women and some East Asian women. How much flak or hatred have you received from society for it?

I have a Korean friend in real life who has said he prefers White women (unlike me he has actually told others while I keep it a secret) and somehow, just like online, he gets a lot of criticisms from Black women who try to give him lectures on race about it. 

PS: I think I read on a forum that Keiran Lee (pornstar) is Indian, might have to read more about that sometime. I haven't seen a porno flick in weeks now, has probably helped me more with women than hurt me (had a date last night).


----------



## redballoon

Nick Carraway said:


> Redballoon, I notice you said you have dated mainly White women and some East Asian women. How much flak or hatred have you received from society for it?


None? Why is that anyone else's business? If society did dislike it, it didn't matter to us. Then again, I don't choose them based on their race hahah. Obviously you would get flak for that. Why would you advertise such a thing?

I don't think porn is helping you with women LOL.


----------



## FlightsOfFancy

Nick Carraway said:


> I actually do have Black friends but okay, imagine in your mind I have none. Yet I will talk about race. When I joined this forum and made my preference clear it was JUST Black women and Black users in general giving me a tough time for my preference. *Get it through your head, just because I am a minority does not mean I am somehow your brother or have that much in common with you. Both you and I will have different experiences*. And no I will not date Black women or Asian women because I am not physically attracted to most I have seen in real life, period. Before you come in and tell me I am somehow limited in my experience, I have lived in a town that was 70 percent Black, went to a high school that was 90 percent Black, and had to sit through class through class hearing about race and how much the world hates "us" (meaning minorities). So don't give me any of that garbage.
> 
> So in case you want to say I am using the "I have black friends" excuse, well guess what pal, I went to a high school that was 90 percent Black and most people I ran into daily were Black so as a result I have Black friends. I didn't actively seek out Black people to hang out with just so I can satisfy some left wing nutcase.
> 
> *No, Brown women do not "appall" me, in fact I am attracted to them just as I am attracted to Latina and most of all White women. But I have repeated that we hardly have any in my area. I am friends with Black and Asian women but would not date them because I am not attracted to them, end of story. If that makes me the racist then let it be because it seems like, oddly enough, Black users on here have the biggest issue with me having attraction towards White women and how exactly is that going to stop me from being attracted to them?
> 
> Do you even want to help out or do you want to argue?
> *



When did I ever tell you what my race was? I don't remembering making a "Low self-esteem due to my " whatever anywhere. And how on Earth did you take what I say and assume I felt any sort of connection with you whatsoever; in fact, I'm pretty sure the exact opposite was implied.

I am trying to help, but at the same time, I am not going to sit here and throw smiles and rainbows as a lot have here.

You need to see people for more than just their race; do you not see how obsessive you are about it? You've made threads about 'which hair and eye color is the sexiest', 'which do you prefer white ladies', etc. It isn't a preference. A preference would be simply a preference; this is a fixation and an unhealthy one. 

My advice is to see where this originates; why do you believe people to have such racial hangups as you do? And even if they do (because some do and some are worse), why not move on to the next person? Stop trying to get some tally on PercC to validate or invalidate you.


----------



## Nick Carraway

Gonna be honest here though, if I was White, my life would be a lot easier in this regard:

1. Could travel to Latin America or Asia and know I am guaranteed to get laid
2. Know that men of my race can date women of any race including our own, not get much heat for it, and not have much trouble attracting her
3. Know that my race would never be a factor if I wanted to become a famous actor for example 

I mean seriously, look at the rankings for best looking guys or ask any girl some guys she finds attractive, almost always she will say some White guys or mostly ALL White guys. 

Heck, even look around on the internet, hardly ANY RACISM towards people that are White but do a quick search and you see racism towards almost all minorities. 

I don't want to be White, but I will say that it would be a whole lot easier in this regard if I was White. Not to mention if a White guy was to start a thread on struggling with dating because he is White he would get lots and lots and lots of help from people for it.


----------



## Nick Carraway

*Of course porn doesn't help with women which is why I said I quit it.*

This is pointless, both of you guys have made your posts. 

No I won't get past my attraction barrier, if I am not attracted to certain kinds of women (Redheads, Black women, and Asian women) then no I will not go the relationship or sexual route with them. That kind of advice won't help because my mind isn't willing to live life in that sort of manner (being with women I am just not into).

On the other hand, I did have a fixation on getting with certain kinds of women (European for example, especially the blonde ones) but that fixation in a way made me cancel a chance to go to Sweden with two of my close friends. I wanted to travel to Europe as a little kid (just to see the world, for more than just women) but ya, this insecurity has basically changed my future plans to the point I am only going to stay in the US now.

I don't think my issue is a society issue or anything, I think I just lack the mindset right now to be a casanova. Maybe over the coming weeks and months, with gradual success, I am able to change it (it has gotten better now than it was before). 

The issue is my confidence. I am sure that one day I will have success with women but I think I will always remain a shallow man that values looks, features, and other things over personality. I also don't see myself getting married, ever.


----------



## FlightsOfFancy

Nick Carraway said:


> Gonna be honest here though, if I was White, my life would be a lot easier in this regard:
> 
> 1. Could travel to Latin America or Asia and know I am guaranteed to get laid
> 2. Know that men of my race can date women of any race including our own, not get much heat for it, and not have much trouble attracting her
> 3. Know that my race would never be a factor if I wanted to become a famous actor for example
> 
> I mean seriously, look at the rankings for best looking guys or ask any girl some guys she finds attractive, almost always she will say some White guys or mostly ALL White guys.
> 
> Heck, even look around on the internet, hardly ANY RACISM towards people that are White but do a quick search and you see racism towards almost all minorities.
> 
> I don't want to be White, but I will say that it would be a whole lot easier in this regard if I was White. Not to mention if a White guy was to start a thread on struggling with dating because he is White he would get lots and lots and lots of help from people for it.


so much baggage; I don't see how this goes against anything I said before. It seems to amplify my assumptions; I am not surprised by this post at all. 

Have you sought professional help?


----------



## redballoon

Nick Carraway said:


> Gonna be honest here though, if I was White, my life would be a lot easier in this regard:
> 
> 1. Could travel to Latin America or Asia and know I am guaranteed to get laid
> 2. Know that men of my race can date women of any race including our own, not get much heat for it, and not have much trouble attracting her
> 3. Know that my race would never be a factor if I wanted to become a famous actor for example
> 
> I mean seriously, look at the rankings for best looking guys or ask any girl some guys she finds attractive, almost always she will say some White guys or mostly ALL White guys.
> 
> Heck, even look around on the internet, hardly ANY RACISM towards people that are White but do a quick search and you see racism towards almost all minorities.
> 
> I don't want to be White, but I will say that it would be a whole lot easier in this regard if I was White. Not to mention if a White guy was to start a thread on struggling with dating because he is White he would get lots and lots and lots of help from people for it.


You're being an idiot. Do you really think you would get laid because you are ethnically European? Talk to all the European virgins on this forum LOLOL. You live in a predominantly European region of the world. Of course you'll have an easier time ceteris paribus if you were ONE OF THEM. Yeah, life's unfair. Get over it. It will continue to be whether you worry or not. But you are an American, and that's all you need.

Really, we get to screen out all the people who are very superficial before we even meet them. Being different is a blessing. I'm not going to entertain these kinds of complaints anymore, because they don't help you or me. All I can say is, try and be objective here.


----------



## Nick Carraway

So you expect me to go to a counselor and tell him that I am having issues with my racial appearance, and I want to grow up to become successful with women but think my ethnic appearance will stop me from being a player. Ya great idea, I am sure that counselor can use some comedy in his daily life but I am not going to be the one to provide it for him. 

I think more about race and ethnicity when I enter the internet world and get on a forum than when I am actually out in the real world. Yet, I have found that when I am on a forum I obsessively think about it hoping someone will talk to me through and through and help me find this insecurity. I knew it was bad when I passed up a trip to Sweden because of it (hearing how women there only want Black and White men and see all other men as inferior). 

*What is even worse is I have so much other things I can talk about on the forum that would make me great company for EVERYONE but I can't do so because I get so obsessed with race and dating involving me a Brown guy who wants to have a lot of success with women. 

I have had this issue in my head since 2011 (out of high school) and it has been plaguing me till now, though it has gotten better over the course of time but I just want it to be purged through something other than "thinking deeply" about people. So many shallow guys out there and they never have issues.
*


----------



## FlightsOfFancy

Nick Carraway said:


> So you expect me to go to a counselor and tell him that I am having issues with my racial appearance, and I want to grow up to become successful with women but think my ethnic appearance will stop me from being a player. Ya great idea, I am sure that counselor can use some comedy in his daily life but I am not going to be the one to provide it for him.
> 
> I think more about race and ethnicity when I enter the internet world and get on a forum than when I am actually out in the real world. Yet, I have found that when I am on a forum I obsessively think about it hoping someone will talk to me through and through and help me find this insecurity. I knew it was bad when I passed up a trip to Sweden because of it (hearing how women there only want Black and White men and see all other men as inferior).
> 
> *What is even worse is I have so much other things I can talk about on the forum that would make me great company for EVERYONE but I can't do so because I get so obsessed with race and dating involving me a Brown guy who wants to have a lot of success with women.
> 
> I have had this issue in my head since 2011 (out of high school) and it has been plaguing me till now, though it has gotten better over the course of time but I just want it to be purged through something other than "thinking deeply" about people. So many shallow guys out there and they never have issues.
> *


Therapists deal with this type of issue quite frequently; there's even some who specialize in racial complexes for their PhDs--so yes, you definitely could use more assistance. The pages here seem not to help. The long multi-option polls where people say to you they don't give this as much gravitas as you doesn't help. What else will? Obviously this forum is not strong enough to mitigate your issues.


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## fihe

Nick Carraway said:


> Gonna be honest here though, if I was White, my life would be a lot easier in this regard:
> 
> 1. Could travel to Latin America or Asia and know I am guaranteed to get laid
> 2. Know that men of my race can date women of any race including our own, not get much heat for it, and not have much trouble attracting her
> 3. Know that my race would never be a factor if I wanted to become a famous actor for example


WHAT! Gordo Granudo is white (he's actually Finnish) and I don't think he's getting laid anytime soon:


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## Nick Carraway

Huesos. I can tell you right now that guy can go to Thailand and get laid, I am serious. Also to some Latin American countries and have success. You are picking extremes, I am talking more of the average looking White guy vs the average looking Brown guy. *Like I am sure a Brown guy that is above average looking can do great here in the US which is why I plan on staying in this country and doing my best here to have success with women because I feel it can indeed be done.* Yet I know if I was to go to Argentina for example, I would be one lonely guy even if I looked like Mario Lopez or a Bollywood actor. 

A White guy that looks decent would never have to worry about that stuff, he could go to any country in the world (that is modernized) and get laid by a decent looking women if he has the confidence, a Brown or Asian guy? Not so much. Of course they can here in the US but in Argentina, Spain, Sweden, or heck Russia, not a chance!


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## WamphyriThrall

Diphenhydramine said:


> As an aside, from one Eurasian to another, I have read that Eurasians are supposedly objectively the 'most attractive race.'


Why do you think this is? I can give my own reasons, but they can hardly be applied to the general population, diverse as it is.


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## Diphenhydramine

WamphyriThrall said:


> Why do you think this is? I can give my own reasons, but they can hardly be applied to the general population, diverse as it is.


 I don't want to say.


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## AriesLilith

Diphenhydramine said:


> As an aside, from one Eurasian to another, I have read that Eurasians are supposedly objectively the 'most attractive race.'


Hmm interesting. I'm not sure if Eurasians are the most attractive, it depends on the outcome of the mix I guess, thought in my birth place there are some really beautiful mixed people. There, they are seen a bit superior sometimes, since their family background is usually richer than the pure Asian people that lives there, and then their appearance is also different. There's also the thing that having been outside to occidental countries makes them seem superior in some way.

Last time when we went back to our birth place, my brother was quite popular, as he is more handsome and is tall and has a more masculine body compared to the average Asian guys there. And then thought he is a bit shy, he does have some charm and natural confidence that people keep liking him.
Me on the other hand seem less popular, I don't have magnetic charm like him, and then thought I think that I looked better than the average pure Asian women there as well, beautiful mixed women (that is better looking than me) is not as rare as beautiful men. I'm also a bit too tall so maybe that's another factor against me?  Thought I'm not interested in the men in my birth place, since I feel much more comfortable with occidental culture. The mentality there is still a bit too conservative.


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## strangestdude

.


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## milti

I think Eurasians are attractive because they have a combination of Eastern/Asian looks and Western attitudes. Like @AriesLilith says, the east can be quite conservative, and it's always nice to know someone who is more broad-minded and good looking to boot.

Looks are secondary to attitude anyway - for most people looking for something serious.


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## Nick Carraway

See, I understand that women have their preferences. If my dream girl was to reject me (and believe me, it has already happened to me once), I would do what I do best, move on.

As for the Eurasian part, I do find Asian-White mixed girls to be attractive but I noticed something. A lot of Middle Eastern and North Indian people have the Eurasian type appearance in some cases. To make my point about beauty, in my experience here is how the beauty ladder would go

1. Whites

2. Non-Whites

I don't believe this entirely myself but I have found it to be true. Like whenever you ask girls online to post pics of attractive guys, the guys are almost always White. Whenever you ask girls in real life what guy they find cute, it is almost always a White guy from my experience. Except for Redhead men, most White men I think rank high on the beauty ladder. It frustrates a guy who is a minority like me to some extent that whenever they do a freaking beauty contest as to what guy looks the best, it is almost ALWAYS a freaking White guy.

*If PerC let me, I would post a thread asking women to post pics of men who are attractive and members of a minority group.*

Like I really don't know if a Bollywood actor from India would even be seen as being attractive to most American women and that is saying something!


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## strangestdude

Nick Carraway said:


> I don't believe this entirely myself but I have found it to be true. Like whenever you ask girls online to post pics of attractive guys, the guys are almost always White. Whenever you ask girls in real life what guy they find cute, it is almost always a White guy from my experience. Except for Redhead men, most White men I think rank high on the beauty ladder. It frustrates a guy who is a minority like me to some extent that whenever they do a freaking beauty contest as to what guy looks the best, it is almost ALWAYS a freaking White guy.


I've found this observation to be true living in the UK. Even amongst non-whites in all honesty, but that might be due to white people being the majority of the population and so are more prevalent in media. 

If the majority of attractive people in media are white, you are more likely to cite a white person if asked about attractive people. If you asked the question in China, Thailand, Nigeria, etc the majority will probably list actors and actresses who share the dominant ethnicity of the region. 

I know there is a phenomena in African American culture and in Indo-pak asian culture in the UK that the lighter skin they have the better.

Personally I'm naturally inclined to find Arab, Central and South American women the most attractive and my ethnicity is Afro-carribean.


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## Nick Carraway

strangestdude said:


> I've found this observation to be true living in the UK. Even amongst non-whites in all honesty, but that might be due to white people being the majority of the population and so are more prevalent in media.
> 
> If the majority of attractive people in media are white, you are more likely to cite a white person if asked about attractive people. If you asked the question in China, Thailand, Nigeria, etc the majority will probably list actors and actresses who share the dominant ethnicity of the region.
> 
> I know there is a phenomena in African American culture and in Indo-pak asian culture in the UK *that the lighter skin they have the better*.
> 
> Personally I'm naturally inclined to find Arab, Central and South American women the most attractive and my ethnicity is Afro-carribean.


I have heard about Indian men who were really dark get rejected by women for being "Indian" yet their lighter skin counterparts managed to have success with the same women. Now these women were White and Latin mainly.


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## Alumina

Ethnicity is not something which is consisted in ones DNA, your DNA just carries the chromosomes which determine what eye/skin colour you have. But then again anybody from any part of the world could have those same features. Ethnicity is a mere sociological factor, lead by people. Is ethnicity labelled somewhere on your organs or on your forehead?


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## Faiora

First off, here's a very interesting set of statistics on race from OK Cupid:
How Your Race Affects The Messages You Get « OkTrends

The tables (almost halfway down) do show that, at least in an online dating sense, "white women prefer white men to the exclusion of everyone else." This may sound discouraging, but I think a certain degree of realism is in order before I begin. Here we go:

1. There are white women who do not prefer white men. Darker-than-white skin is something I mentally associate with masculinity (not sure why, and not sure I should, but there you go), and a lot of women are definitely looking for masculinity. 

2. You live in an area where interracial relationships aren't the norm. I would definitely recommend visiting Seattle or LA. Even Miami would probably work. Spend some time in a big city on the West Coast, and go out to some clubs or something. I live in Vancouver, BC (Canada) and there are _lots_ of people in mixed relationships here. 

3. There is also a lot of mixed-race porn that isn't just black and white. You need to get better at searching for it.  

4. Self-esteem is generally much more important than appearance. You're having trouble with self esteem, I think, because appearance is so important to you and you feel it's what's dragging you down. I think visiting someplace where your appearance is more valued can help with that, but once you've got a better feeling that there are people who _prefer _your ethnicity over others (and believe me, no matter what you look like, there are people who would prefer you over most, and/or consider you _ideal_), then you should be able to go anywhere with the knowledge that there will be someone who'll prefer your looks over others'.

5. I reject the notion that you need to identify with people on a level other than appearance to have sex (everyone has their own criteria for sexual attractiveness) - but if you want an actual relationship, you should start thinking about it. If fitness and health and hygiene are important to you, than by all means use that as criteria, but there should be more than that as well. Try meeting people based on other criteria first, then using physical criteria as a deciding factor. For instance, say you really like adventure sports. Try meeting women by going on group excursions for parasailing or something, or just go out surfing at meet them at the beach. If you like arts and crafts, go to a pottery group  If fitness is your number one focus, then go to fitness classes and get involved.

Adding criteria can actually add potential dates to your list, if you use the common interests as an opportunity to meet new people. It also kind of gives you an "in" with people, because it lets you know you share interests with them, and aren't just trolling for women you find attractive.


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## Brian1

I think you're making this a bigger issue than it is. I was in your shoes, then I started dating, I put up the road blocks, I have a disability, kids might not happen, she kept on talking to me, giving me dating questions to answer like "tell me about your family?", "what's your favorite seasons?". We're still checking each other out, but I think the issue of dating with a disability is not as big as I thought it was. 

You can't change your race, you can change your opinion. You probably should've went to Sweden to damn the dating, the experience of going to another country. If that opportunity came up again, like friends were going to Spain, and they invited you, go to Spain because Spain is a great place to visit. If you meet the woman of your dreams, that's just an added plus. You'll throw away lots of opportunities if you base your going, on dating, while you have this view of what women like, and its always going to be blue eyed blonde haired men.


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## strangestdude

Faiora said:


> First off, here's a very interesting set of statistics on race from OK Cupid:
> How Your Race Affects The Messages You Get « OkTrends


That bummed me out.


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## Faiora

strangestdude said:


> That bummed me out.


Thing to keep in mind: There are SO MANY PEOPLE in this world (and online, if you're looking there), that the statistics don't matter as much as it looks like they do. You just need to learn where to look for the ones that will like you. 

And since everyone has different priorities, there are a lot of people who will like you "despite" that you aren't their usual preference. The key is to get them to know you, so they like you for other reasons first. Then the rest follows. 

Meeting people via text-based communication online is actually great for this. But my other suggestions re: interest groups still apply. What starts as a casual friendship can become a date pretty quickly.


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## Faiora

Brian1 said:


> I think you're making this a bigger issue than it is. I was in your shoes, then I started dating, I put up the road blocks, I have a disability, kids might not happen, she kept on talking to me, giving me dating questions to answer like "tell me about your family?", "what's your favorite seasons?". We're still checking each other out, but I think the issue of dating with a disability is not as big as I thought it was.
> 
> You can't change your race, you can change your opinion. You probably should've went to Sweden to damn the dating, the experience of going to another country. If that opportunity came up again, like friends were going to Spain, and they invited you, go to Spain because Spain is a great place to visit. If you meet the woman of your dreams, that's just an added plus. You'll throw away lots of opportunities if you base your going, on dating, while you have this view of what women like, and its always going to be blue eyed blonde haired men.


This. Being positive is half of being interesting, in my opinion. 

Regarding possibly not being able to have kids: I think if your disability is noticeable, people will think of this themselves anyway, which would either result in them eventually asking you questions, or in them turning you down right away. But more importantly, there's no obstacle that's insurmountable, and both you and other people need to realise this. Maybe you'd have to do in-vitro... or maybe someone else would have to provide sperm... or maybe you'd have to adopt. But, you could have children in one way or another, if you wanted to. And anyway, science is pretty darn cool, so even if you couldn't now, there's hope. I think what you _want_ is actually much more important than what you're _capable of_​, in this sort of situation.


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## strangestdude

@_Faiora_ I agree, for some reason the results bummed me out. Looking through the comments section was interesting. 

I think things are different in the US though.

There are definitely white women who only date white men in the UK, but white women seem more open to dating outside their race than in the US. Generally I haven't had a problem finding white women who like me, and non-whites are 10% of the population in my city.


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## Faiora

strangestdude said:


> @_Faiora_ I agree, for some reason the results bummed me out. Looking through the comments section was interesting.
> 
> I think things are different in the US though.
> 
> There are definitely white women who only date white men in the UK, but white women seem more open to dating outside their race than in the US. Generally I haven't had a problem finding white women who like me, and non-whites are 10% of the population in my city.


1) I'm not sure about the US being much different overall, because the US is very divided within itself that way. Major cities and west-coat areas are more liberal, and mid-south areas are often extremely conservative and in many cases racist. So, you end up with two extremes and I don't know where the balance lies. 

2) In many liberal _and_ conservative areas of the states, the percentage of non-white people is over 10%. So I would think that in areas where this was less acceptable, it would be harder for a darker skinned person to find a white lady, because of the number of darker skinned men available. Granted, many or most of the dark skinned men in those areas may not be interested in white women. I don't know. 

3) Where I am, there are like 4 black people in the whole city, and about the same number of latinos (obviously that's an extreme underestimation, but it seems that way at first glance because most of the brown people here are asian or middle eastern). When you're interested in people who don't look like you, then the ones you see rarely, come across as exotic and definitely appealing. Those 4 black guys must have SO MUCH SEX.


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## Nick Carraway

Faiora

That OkCupid study is so flawed on so many levels, I read it years ago. 

Online dating is a poor representation of how real life dating may turn out. A large number of the women there are plain janes or on the older side with high standards. Not to mention, majority of the women are looking for long term relationships and not anything in the short term. Lets also be real here, whether it is the US or the UK, most women are not going to take an Asian guy over a Black guy, period.

Also, Latinas do date Black men A LOT from my experience, maybe a small number on that site would not. The reason the site sample is so skewed is because it talks about messages sent and replied to.

KEY POINT: Being a guy in online dating SUCKS.

So a White guy gets 3 girls replying to him out of 10 while a Black guy gets 2, after enough messages it becomes a wash. 

Not to mention you need to take into account that a lot of the Indian guys on dating sites aren't like the Westernized ones but mainly the FOB types from India that send out spam messages so that lowers their chances. 

It doesn't reflect preferences but just dumb luck. OkCupid is also overwhelmingly White.


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## Nick Carraway

Another thing to take into account, a lot of Black people out there for example will go on Black dating sites and not OkCupid, same with other minorities. So again, when you get women on these dating sites who are minorities and expressing a heavy White preference, a lot of them are Whitewashed and not really representative of the whole sample. Take that into account with race and online dating, a lot of minorities will go to their race specific dating sites.


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## WamphyriThrall

Nick Carraway said:


> Also, Latinas do date Black men A LOT from my experience, maybe a small number on that site would not. The reason the site sample is so skewed is because it talks about messages sent and replied to.


They date one another because they have more in common, usually: both groups have colonial pasts in the Americas, share similar SES status a lot of times, and have more in common with one another culturally than with, say, whites. And yeah, it used to bother me because a lot of 'hood' types would abuse their girlfriends and rub their 'success' in everyone else's face, though it's the women who make the choice to date them, so I hold them accountable for whatever happens. 

Why don't you give dating a rest?


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## Nick Carraway

WamphyriThrall said:


> They date one another because they have more in common, usually: both groups have colonial pasts in the Americas, share similar SES status a lot of times, and have more in common with one another culturally than with, say, whites. And yeah, it used to bother me because a lot of 'hood' types would abuse their girlfriends and rub their 'success' in everyone else's face, though it's the women who make the choice to date them, so I hold them accountable for whatever happens.
> 
> Why don't you give dating a rest?


because lately I have experienced success with it

lol elaborate on the hood types part


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