# MBTI Types and Confidence/Success debunked



## xdae (May 14, 2015)

Hey, I'm not sure if this has been posted yet but I was researching Enneagram type 8 - the type that involves strong self-confidence and assertiveness. Then I stumbled upon this post by @slightlycrazed about relationships between Enneagram types with MBTI personalities. 

I found this very helpful for ranking all the personalities based on certain traits stereotypical to each of the 9 types. Therefore, by graphing the percentage of types in each personality together it makes it much easier to see how different personalities relate to each other based on a certain trait. As of now, I only did graphs on type 8, but I'll definitely update more if people find this helpful.

*This graph shows the percentages of type 8 in each of the personalities. Ranking from least to greatest. Thus the lowest rankings have the least signs of type 8 while the highest rankings show the most signs of type 8. *


*I also made a separate graph without ENTJs since they seem to be dominating greatly in type 8 - which can present a possible outlier.* PS: Not sure if this graph is wrong, since I kept the same percentages as the above graph... will fix later.


_*So what do these graphs mean exactly?* _

Well, Type 8s are self-confidence/assertive. They know what they want and thus are usually the people whom are popular and successful in life. They are also the least type that is prevalent in society - hence why the majority of society values confidence so much. As you can see 40% of ENTJ's are type 8's and they also make up 35% of all type 8s. In other terms, about 1/2 of ENTJs are extremely confident and 1/3 of all confident people are ENTJs. This might explain why ENTJs are so successful in life and make the highest average salaries by a long shot.

Take a good look at this graph about average salaries:


Notice that the top money makers in each of the four groups (originators, patriarchs, optimists, pragmatists) were ESTP, ESTJ, ENFJ, ENTJ. These were also the leading personalities with type 8s for their specified group. Meaning they were the types who possessed the most confidence in their career group. This suggests that in each career group, the personality with the highest in confidence also has the most success compared to the other three personalities in the group. Also notice that infps make significantly less money than everyone else and they also possess the least amount of type 8 or lack the most in confidence. 

One thing I can't explain is why ENTPs make the second lowest salary yet are 4th in possessing the most confidence. Jeez, as an ENTP this sure depresses me a lot :\. Maybe it's because we take too many risks or we get bored of things too easily that we never really focus on developing a stable career? Or another reason might be that ENTPs are natural ENTrePreneurs. Entrepreneurs usually fail constantly and remain dirt poor until they eventually succeed and become filthy rich. Therefore only the poor ENTPs that are still developing their entrepreneurial business are being surveyed and they have yet to achieve their billionaire status. I do often plan out ideas of becoming filthy rich and famous... I hope I don't end up becoming an utter failure in the future :'(... I'm stumped on this one.

Ultimately, the graphs can help you see the rankings of confidence for each personality. Thus you can determine which personalities possess natural confidence. As a result you can figure out how successful each personality is in life (given that success correlates directly with salary earned.) Type 8 = confidence = $$ = success.


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## PaladinX (Feb 20, 2013)

xdae said:


> One thing I can't explain is why ENTPs make the second lowest salary yet are 4th in possessing the most confidence. Jeez, as an ENTP this sure depresses me a lot :\. Maybe it's because we take too many risks or we get bored of things too easily that we never really focus on developing a stable career? Or another reason might be that ENTPs are natural ENTrePreneurs. Entrepreneurs usually fail constantly and remain dirt poor until they eventually succeed and become filthy rich. Therefore only the poor ENTPs that are still developing their entrepreneurial business are being surveyed and they have yet to achieve their billionaire status. I do often plan out ideas of becoming filthy rich and famous... I hope I don't end up becoming an utter failure in the future :'(... I'm stumped on this one.


Here is a possible explanation:


From Jung on the Extraverted Intuitive type:



> This attitude has immense dangers—all too easily the intuitive may squander his life. He spends himself animating men and things, spreading around him an abundance of life—a life, however, which others live, not he. Were he able to rest with the actual thing, he would gather the fruit of his labours; yet all too soon must he be running after some fresh possibility, quitting his newly planted field, while others reap the harvest. In the end he goes empty away.



From Marie Louise Von Franz on the Extraverted Intuitive type:



> For instance, if you start a new business, there are generally initial difficulties, the thing does not work yet; you have to wait for a certain time for it to begin to be profitable. The intuitive very often, tragically, does not wait long enough; he starts the business, but that is enough for him, so he resells it and loses on it, but the next owner makes a lot of money out of the same business. The intuitive does not reap what he has sown. He is always the one who invents, but who in the end gets nothing out of it if he overdoes his main function, for he is, as it were, rushing through things and incapable of waiting till what he has sown comes out of the soil and he can gather the fruit.


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## xdae (May 14, 2015)

@PaladinX

Ahh, I see now that ENTPs are too impatient. To achieve success as an ENTP they must learn to focus and stabilize their ideas before reaching out for new ones. Or else they will forever be fruitless from their impatience. I just can't fathom the fact that so many brilliant minds are living out their entire lives making such a poor living


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

I'm actually very skeptical of the one for average household income, even more than usual for the often shaky statistics for typing. There seems to be almost no information on its original source, what groups were tested, or anything else that you could use to judge if it's valid or not. Also seen some of it contradicted before.
Here's another one:








The results are a little different on this one.
ESTJs make the most, ISFPs and ISTPs make the least, INFPs make a bit more and ENTPs make quite a bit more.


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## JTHearts (Aug 6, 2013)

those statistics aren't real


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## Highway Nights (Nov 26, 2014)

JTHearts said:


> those statistics aren't real


I think any statistics relating to typology are generally questionable (including these, in particular the first income one) but I also think you should elaborate. The statistics are obviously real, they were taken and recorded. The question is: Are they valid? If not, why aren't they valid?


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## xdae (May 14, 2015)

@Rebelgoatalliance

Hmm interesting graphs. Now that I look at it you can't really compare most of the types to each other since the salary difference is only like $1,000-$5,000. However the significantly more confident personalities do make a lot more than average while the significantly less confident personalities do make a lot less than average. That seems pretty evident in the graphs.


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

My boyfriend is ISFJ and he is the most confident man I have ever met 

How confident someone is has nothing to do with his type.


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## anakmager (Apr 16, 2015)

Well, now I'm convinced.

Bye-bye college


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## Max (Aug 14, 2014)

I love how Type 8 is only linked to confidence/success. 

That is like trying to say that a duck with a beak deformity will lay less eggs than a duck with a normal beak.


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## delvinwilliam (May 7, 2015)

well seriously i dont even care for this percentage .. cmon , dont let this bullshit bound us guys ... we have to think openly .. dont limit ourself with this "facts" cmon we are better than that !!!


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## dracula (Apr 5, 2015)

Why does everyone seem to care about whether these are facts or "facts"? 

It's not like you're forced to live up to the statistics anyway. It's natural that certain personality traits or behavior can result in general tendencies but if you want to be an exception to the "rule", no one's stopping you. 

Don't take some averages as a personal attack (or as something to be used to boost your ego if that's the case), the statistics can be quite interesting to take a look at but they don't determine a single individual from the sample


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## xdae (May 14, 2015)

draculaoverlord said:


> Why does everyone seem to care about whether these are facts or "facts"?
> 
> It's not like you're forced to live up to the statistics anyway. It's natural that certain personality traits or behavior can result in general tendencies but if you want to be an exception to the "rule", no one's stopping you.
> 
> Don't take some averages as a personal attack (or as something to be used to boost your ego if that's the case), the statistics can be quite interesting to take a look at but they don't determine a single individual from the sample


Thank you, I don't even want to continue this thread anymore since people are being offended.


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## dracula (Apr 5, 2015)

xdae said:


> Thank you, I don't even want to continue this thread anymore since people are being offended.


I seriously don't see why, anyone can become rich regardless of their type, as well as an EXTJ can end up being poor. If you use MBTI to "reliably" predict how well off you're going to be in your life, you're doing something wrong to be honest. 

Of course there are statistical averages to quite many things - according to Wikipedia (...) the average height for women in my country is 166cm and I'm 158cm. Should I start claiming that the statistics _must_ be invalid just because they don't exactly apply to me?


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