# What happened with my INTPness?



## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

So I have a long story to tell you, but I'll try to make it as short as possible.

I was a teenager that struggled a little bit with his mind during my childhood and adolescence.
Until one day when I decided it really sucks to be that rational. To question everything and put biggest value on what seems to be "truth" no matter how does it makes people feel. I went from a depressive teenager to a totally narcissistic, manipulative and self-loved human. I couldn't feel anything deeply and express it. But what happened...is that one day I decided I want to "feel" more. That I want to do and think things according to how I feel while doing it, not based on how I think it is correct/logical. I thought life it's more fun that way. And what happened? After years of struggle I think I managed to turn myself from a pure thinker to...a pure feeler. Feelings move me way better than thoughts can, right now. And existence is a lot tolerable that way. Now I can communicate more efficiently and I turned from "not being likeable" to human beings to...being likeable by almost any human being I meet. 

Ok, what's the problem? The problem is..I don't know if every INTP is that way but...I am very unbalanced in doing things like this "feeling/thinking". There is no in between. I can either be controlled by emotions and do things based on that and FUCK thinking/thoughts or...the other way, fuck feelings and do only what I think is the most objective good that can be done in certain situations.
And that's stupid and damaging. Because I can be today a total feeler, next day a total thinker and...that's SAVAGE to my mind and to my social relationships. That's just a "unstable" psyche or what?

Also...how is it possible for an INTP to love being around people (sometimes) and gain energy from them? 
I feel like my nature is tipical to an INTP but what I do and it makes me feel and think good is...totally unrelatable to INTPs.


So what's happening?
What did to me that idea I had one day...and followed it (with baby steps) that I have to do more things that are not my nature if I want to can "achieve" things I want in life? 
Sometimes it's really funny. Being a total nihilistic half a day and a total flower power idealist the other half. That's confusing even for me.
I kinda like it but..you know, this change made another problems.

I'm curious if another xNTx had a similar experience.


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## islandlight (Aug 13, 2013)

When I was young, yes, I bounced around a lot--more or less as you describe. Now I'm in my 60s, and it's only recently that I feel I've "gotten it together."


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## Astrida88 (Jun 6, 2019)

I wonder. For me it sounds like you could be mistyped and/or suffer from some personality disorder, maybe bipolar?

What exactly makes you think you are INTP? Do you identify with Ti dom, Fe inf functions? 

You sound like someone using Fi/Te, not Ti/Fe. Not much to work with but "objective truth" is something Te aims for (Ti is "what makes sense to me") and "how I feel" is Fi's giveaway (Fe is more "what is socially accepted'). 

You might also not be an I either. This is something I can share my experiences about. I identified as INTP for a long while because I am pretty damaged by my disability and the bullying it caused. But in fact I am not an introvert. It's just sensory processing disorder (by body can't physically stand too many people talking at once and similar experiences, it isn't a personality thing - it's neurological, if it was my choice I would spend a lot of time with other people but my body shuts up and I can't make sense of what I hear after a while and it's really uncomfortable and turns me into an idiot).

I can also identify with finally feeling alive and being likeable when I decided to do what I avoided doing before. 
But in my case it wasn't "acting as I feel" but "sharing what I think" without worrying it could cause people to hate me. I was a people pleaser when I was 8-14yo (result of bullying). I only wanted to make people happy back then and accepted any bullying if it meant "I have friends" and "being a part of the group". I would do everything they wanted because they wanted - I thought I will be happy if they are happy because then they would like me. And if I wasn't actively pleasing people I wasn't even there - I was spending a lot of time walking alone, reading alone, playing alone like a typical introvert. I wanted to play with them but I couldn't because others wouldn't accept me in their group (I was either bullied or ignored).

Then I snapped, I created an imaginary friend to fulfill my need of belonging and decided to not worry about having any real friends and shown my true self to the world. I started saying my opinions about the society, about religion (I was the only atheist in my whole class and we were preparing for chrismation/confirmation so it caused an uproar - but faith just made no sense to me). I started disputing with people freely, stating my opinion, sharing my ideas. 

And all of sudden I become happy and soon I got real friends, that liked me for my quirky personality and novel ideas. And surprisingly there wasn't so many people that hated me. Probably because I wasn't telling people how they are supposed to think - I never care about that - I was only telling them how I think and why I am thinking that way. I was also pretty disconnected from the social world - I thought of myself as an scientist observing monkey behaviours or a foreign researcher living with the locals and drawing conclusions. I knew it's not safe to tell them that because it would cause conflict and "interfere with my research" but that's how I saw myself and the society. They were fun to observe and interact with but I wasn't one of them and I knew I never will. 

Bad experiences can make you act like another personality type even from a very young age. Personality isn't how you act but what your natural preferences are. What makes you happy and what makes you unique. You can live your life pretending to be another type and not even know that - but you won't be happy nor liked. Because you will be a fake.


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## Baconbits2 (Dec 20, 2019)

Wow, this is awesome. I'm with you friend, 100% doing the same damn thing, but I think I'm slightly ahead of you.

Keep pushing to reconnect your INTP-ness. When the feeling & thinking modes occasionally sync up you'll feel unstoppable and more in the zone than you've ever felt.

I'm almost 30 and probably started this process in my mid 20's. Just like you I took baby-steps, but I also vaped weed like a damn chimney for years. Numbed out my over-analyzing & spontaneous imagination lift-offs, and dumbed myself down a bit as well... It became unconsciously easier to understand people and their feelings, and talk about them. I even forgot how much I hated small talk, but eventually I became an emotional mess; dependent on being around people, easily hurt, and constantly feeling lonely (very bad if you're missing stable relationships to satisfy your niches)

I'm just beginning to re-align with my machine-mind from the new emotional state you described. Took me weeks after the machine re-connection to fully realize what had happened, what I lost, and what I had gained.

I think we're both shifting towards xNTP and I think the bouts of madness we feel comes from floating between INTP and ENTP.

I know for a fact that I've lost certain quirks/abilities, but my socializing skills and leadership ability have exploded.
I can no longer release adrenaline at will, but articulating my INTP thoughts & ideas are easy and people flock to the sensibility that brings to the table. My insights are immediately respected and heard because I can now interact with a person from their viewpoint tactically and emotionally.

I can add more to this, but I don't wanna drag my post out any longer.

You're going in the right direction. Just be mindful while you're adapting. Find good tools and time to think deeply, de-stress, or instill meditation. It'll amplify what you're learning and help you feel connected and whole again.

_"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you’ll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.”_ (Rudyard Kipling 1935)


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

@islandlight Since I was 4 I always felt that way. Keep bouncing from an extreme to another, but on different levels, of course.
It's nice that you got it together finally, in this life  I hope I will get it too.

@Astrida88

_For me it sounds like you could be mistyped and/or suffer from some personality disorder, maybe bipolar? _
Mistyped? I don't know. I took MBTI 7 years ago and I did it every year. The result was INTP/ENTP everytime. No matter what test I took.
Personality disorder? Maybe. Possible but not bipolar. I know bipolar people and I'm not even close to this.

_What exactly makes you think you are INTP? _
The fact that...the description of an INTP describes me really well. I started questioning me first time when I was 4 "What is life? What I am? Why am I me and not anyone else?" And I never stopped questioning. I never liked to be too much around people and I never had a lot of friends. That's why I'm an Introvert. I stay in home for days without getting human contact and I feel good. I don't have problems in being alone...everywhere. I really like it. But sometimes...I need to be around someone and I'm acting very much like an extrovert. I am capable of making a lot of friends and get energy from them. I feel like I am an introvert that can be an extrovert from time to time. Sometimes more extrovert than even real extroverts.

N over S? I am not that down to earth to not be iNtuitive. I like ideas more than practicability of them. I really love some ideas how they looks in my mind and I rarely want them materialise. But I'm pretty sure that I "attracted" in my life sensor behaviour just because it helped me to live better...to survive in first place.

Thinking over Feeling? That's strange. I've been an absolute thinker for my entire life. I never paid any attention to emotions (not to me and not to others). For me...everytime I valued the truth, logic more than how it made me/people feel. But since my some negative experiences in life I kinda learned how to feel and I even let myself be guided by emotions more than thoughts. And it happens so frequent now.

Perceiving...well, that's obvious. Just look at how I'm writing. Also...I'm a paradox even in that area. For example I am not a typical INTP guy. My wardrobe is more business than casual (INTP usually dress casual). I have a collection of 400 neckties, 120 shirts, many shoes and...a lot of things that project a very ordered physical image of me. And that's uncommon for someone typed as "Perceiving". But usually I am very disorganized in thoughts, in what I do.

I think I am just an INTP that really likes to bounce from acting like some types from time to time. But I don't know what these types are? 

I want objective truth only in Science. I know there is no objective truth in reality, except for those that can be scientifically demonstrated. Everything is just our mind projections/interpretations. I really want, accept and follow "what makes sense to me" everytime.

I care only for what I feel (so Fi, if you say so. I don't know many things about cognitive functions, sorry). I never believe in "what is socially accepted". Usually I think that what is socially accepted can be questioned and it must be.

Thanks for sharing your life experience . I read it and...I am glad that you made it. I like how you got it done and...you seem a good person. I think we would/can be good friends. You have exactly same ideas like I have about some things. And these are quite rare ideas, not common.

What is fake when you believe so much in it and you forget that it is fake? Fake can become a new reality, don't you think?

@Baconbits2

I can totally relate to what you say. I feel like you are just my inner voice that speaks to myself.
Yeah, actually that's what I think too. That I'm bouncing from INTP to ENTP but...what the fuck is wrong with these emotions? My bestfriend is a pure ENTP but when I'm becoming "extrovert" and I'm getting good at being around people I'm not even similar to him. He doesn't give a fuck about what others thinks. I kinda do...a little bit. Not much. But I care about my emotions a lot more than how a normal ENTP does.

"but my socializing skills and leadership ability have exploded. " - Totally relatable. Turned from...not being ruled and not ruling anyone to...make everyone wants to follow me in (almost) every social context I want.

I hated small talk but now I am capable of making it with everyone. I hated talking too much with sensors but now I can totally make them feel appreciated.

What I really like is that now I am more confident to be weird and express my weirdness. I can materialise it easier and don't keep it only in my mind.

Yeah, I just learned how to meditate recently and I love benefits from it. I can control more my emotions and thoughts after doing this regularly.

Thanks for confirming me I'm going in the right direction .
I wish you good luck and have fun doing this whole shit you explained to me. Manifest your mind in the world and get pleasure from it.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

impulsenine said:


> So I have a long story to tell you, but I'll try to make it as short as possible.
> 
> I was a teenager that struggled a little bit with his mind during my childhood and adolescence.
> Until one day when I decided it really sucks to be that rational. To question everything and put biggest value on what seems to be "truth" no matter how does it makes people feel. I went from a depressive teenager to a totally narcissistic, manipulative and self-loved human. I couldn't feel anything deeply and express it. But what happened...is that one day I decided I want to "feel" more. That I want to do and think things according to how I feel while doing it, not based on how I think it is correct/logical. I thought life it's more fun that way. And what happened? After years of struggle I think I managed to turn myself from a pure thinker to...a pure feeler. Feelings move me way better than thoughts can, right now. And existence is a lot tolerable that way. Now I can communicate more efficiently and I turned from "not being likeable" to human beings to...being likeable by almost any human being I meet.
> ...


Given the variability of Ne-Ti/Ti-Ne I can see how this could happen. ENTPs are considered among: "...The most introverted of the extroverts" so it is entirely possible you mistyped as an INTP the whole time? I think someone already asked you, but it is worth considering. I feel more like an "ambivert." There are times I want to be around people and there are times I want to be left alone. Really large crowds always make me feel nervous. I can handle a large convention for maybe 2-3 hours and I'm just overloaded and exhausted. I like my groups around 25 or less. I've always struggled with feelings. They just seem messy and overwhelming to me. Of course, not dealing with them isn't healthy either. They just "leak out" in other ways, often times causing all sorts of havoc. The more mature an ENTP gets, the more they actually do care what others think. Our tertiary Fe doesn't kick in until we're a little older, so before that, we often come off as cold, inconsiderate, immature, and selfish. It is possible you just managed to mature a little faster in some ways?

I had a very insecure home life as a young child. Like a lot of others in the early 70's, my parents were still trying to figure themselves out when they managed to accidentally create a new life, so I got a lot of mixed messages about what was appropriate and what wasn't as a kid. I was bold in some ways and completely hidden in others. My young life seemed to be all about extremes. I was either out riding bikes and climbing trees, or I was in the corner with my nose in a book. There didn't seem to be any in between for me.

Anyway, I think I really tried to repress my feelings because feelings are messy and overwhelming. I had a lot of anxiety back then. I just compartmentalized as much as possible. Add to this I was socially awkward and had undiagnosed ADHD at a time when it was still considered: "Minimal Brain Disfunction." This caused me to have all sorts of boundary issues and absolutely no filter. I also lacked focus, self-discipline, and my mind wandered all over the place. I sometimes think it is the opposite of Autism. Instead of retreating inward, I pushed outward. Of course I stuck out like a sore thumb and was brutally ridiculed, teased, and bullied, because of it.

It wasn't until 10th/11th grades that I finally began to realize that my trying to be "normal" was a losing strategy for me. All it did was infuriate me and give my bullies more reason to torment me. So I changed up strategies. I stopped trying to "fit in," and just learned being polite (especially with females because they continue to fascinate me to this very day) and being myself was just a better way to go for me. I started making new friends and finding new ways to channel my creative energies. It wasn't a total solution, I still have plenty to learn till this day, but it was a serious step in the right direction to me figuring myself out and moving forward.

Well, where were we? I lost track. Oh yes! Your INTPness. The nuances between INTP and ENTP are very similar; the functions are the same, just in a slightly different order:

INTP: Ti-Ne-Si-Fe
ENTP: Ne-Ti-Fe-Si

Here's some comparisons between the two types.





__





INTP vs ENTP | Compare Personality Types - Personality at Work


INTP vs ENTP | Compare INTP and ENTP personalities to understand how they best work together. Where are the areas of similarity and potential areas for conflict




personalityatwork.co













INTP vs. ENTP: Type Differences & Similarities | Personality Junkie


By Dr. A.J. Drenth The INTP and ENTP types are well viewed as kindred spirits, with both placing high value on things like autonomy, freedom,…




personalityjunkie.com













18 Telling Differences Between ENTP And INTP Personality Types


ENTPs brainstorm first and analyze second. INTPs analyze first and brainstorm second.




thoughtcatalog.com


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## Astrida88 (Jun 6, 2019)

impulsenine said:


> @Astrida88
> 
> _For me it sounds like you could be mistyped and/or suffer from some personality disorder, maybe bipolar? _
> Mistyped? I don't know. I took MBTI 7 years ago and I did it every year. The result was INTP/ENTP everytime. No matter what test I took.
> Personality disorder? Maybe. Possible but not bipolar. I know bipolar people and I'm not even close to this.


Bipolar was just a far fetched guess. I would need more info both about you and about personality disorders to "diagnose" you accuratelly.

_



What exactly makes you think you are INTP?

Click to expand...

_


> The fact that...the description of an INTP describes me really well. I started questioning me first time when I was 4 "What is life? What I am? Why am I me and not anyone else?" And I never stopped questioning. I never liked to be too much around people and I never had a lot of friends. That's why I'm an Introvert. I stay in home for days without getting human contact and I feel good. I don't have problems in being alone...everywhere. I really like it. But sometimes...I need to be around someone and I'm acting very much like an extrovert. I am capable of making a lot of friends and get energy from them. I feel like I am an introvert that can be an extrovert from time to time. Sometimes more extrovert than even real extroverts.


Did you read other descriptions?

You were asking questions related to your place in the world - which is Fi. Ti is more interested in the world, not in itself.

If simply questioning is decisive for Ti then I am not a Ti user at all because I don't recall myself actively asking myself or others "why" and "what" (except "why noone likes me?" and "what am I doing wrong?"). But... I was utterly curious about the world and constantly learning. As a 3 year old I could name all the colors, at 4 I wondered what number comes after 9999 and if it's possible to count to infinity, at 5 I learned minus numbers by looking at my grandma outdoor thermometer. I was founding fossils around and wondering what the world looked back there and how it is possible a sea was where we currently live. And I was giving all the adults willing to listen to me lectures about squares, points and falling leaves - stuff I learned about from pure curiosity. At preschool I needed more difficult examples than everyone else because I solved the easy ones way too fast and disorganised the group by walking around, looking for something to solve next (I was stealing other kids examples, lol). And I don't think I seen other people as human beings till I was about 3-4 because I apparently seemed to not know the difference between me and others (preschool teachers asked my parents to get me checked because of that and I was diagnosed as "highly intelligent but socially delayed").



> N over S? I am not that down to earth to not be iNtuitive. I like ideas more than practicability of them. I really love some ideas how they looks in my mind and I rarely want them materialise. But I'm pretty sure that I "attracted" in my life sensor behaviour just because it helped me to live better...to survive in first place.


N vs S is outdated. Everyone uses both. The difference is evident in healthy S/N doms (people with sensing or intuition as their main function) but gets blurred when the person is unhealthy (one example - I tested as a freaking ISTJ at first and I believed I am one because I was badly depressed, it was a case of Si-grip) or when the S/N in in 2nd or 3rd place (by the time someone is 30yo you can't really tell of they have N or S as their 2nd function).



> Thinking over Feeling? That's strange. I've been an absolute thinker for my entire life. I never paid any attention to emotions (not to me and not to others). For me...everytime I valued the truth, logic more than how it made me/people feel. But since my some negative experiences in life I kinda learned how to feel and I even let myself be guided by emotions more than thoughts. And it happens so frequent now.


Same as with N vs S - it changes with time and state of mind. Don't pay so much attention to the letters. Learn about functions.



> Perceiving...well, that's obvious. Just look at how I'm writing. Also...I'm a paradox even in that area. For example I am not a typical INTP guy. My wardrobe is more business than casual (INTP usually dress casual). I have a collection of 400 neckties, 120 shirts, many shoes and...a lot of things that project a very ordered physical image of me. And that's uncommon for someone typed as "Perceiving". But usually I am very disorganized in thoughts, in what I do.


P/J is totally inaccurate. It works with extroverts but for Introverts the dominant function of Js is actually a perceiving function and Ps a judging function. The P/J only tells which extroverted function comes first but doesn't tell what function is first in stack - perceiving (Se, Ne, Si, Ni) or judging (Te, Fe, Ti, Fi). For ENTP functions are Ne - Ti - Fe- Si. Ne is first extroverted function, and first function overall. They are perceivers in and out. For INTP it is Ti - Ne - Si - Fe, Ne is first extroverted function but first function is Ti, so they are perceivers on the outside but... judgers inside! Let's take ENTJs and INTJs for comparison. First is Te - Ni - Se - Fi, a dominant judger in and out. The other is Ni - Te - Fi - Se. Judger on the outside but perceiver on the inside.
What is means?
INTPs are full of shit from outside point of view (people see their Ne) but they actually have it all together in their heads (Ti is calmly and steadily building a reliable inner knowledge base - it just doesn't show in the outside world).
INTJs are really collected from outside point of view (others see their Te) but their inside world doesn't seem that precise (their Ni is blurry, the answers seem to come out of nowhere).

As for business image - I don't know what caused it in your case but it's often related to low Se (they lack fashion sense but care about looking properly so they go the no-fail road, which is business look) or a developed Te (they simply want the world to know they are professionals). Unless it's influence of the environment (traditional, typical = Si), or an interesting character in a movie or something (Ne-Fi can do that...).



> I want objective truth only in Science. I know there is no objective truth in reality, except for those that can be scientifically demonstrated. Everything is just our mind projections/interpretations. I really want, accept and follow "what makes sense to me" everytime.


Well, Science is actually not all that objective. Sure thing - it works and it is proven. But Ti users can't help but question the science - they only accept it into their knowledge base once they understand and it makes sense to them. Because even if something can be proven it doesn't mean the theory behind it is the truth. Take illusionists - they tell the audience what they are doing is magic and apparently "prove it" but it isn't actually true. That's how Ti takes the scientific knowledge. Magic isn't truth if it could possibly have scientific explanation. Scientific explanation isn't truth since some other possible explanation could exist. It can only

Ti deeply believes an objective truth exists and is in constant search for it but it's a never ending story. It isn't all that interested in proving the truth by demonstrating it nor accepting the "objective truth" that is already scientifically proven. Just because something works doesn't mean the theory behind it is truth. It just means the explanation is pretty accurate. But it could still be wrong. High Ti users are theoreticians, not practicans. They want to learn the objective truth but are not interested in implementing the truth in real world.



> I care only for what I feel (so Fi, if you say so. I don't know many things about cognitive functions, sorry). I never believe in "what is socially accepted". Usually I think that what is socially accepted can be questioned and it must be.


Not believing in "socially accepted" is characteristic of both Fi and Ti. However - high Ti users grow up from this (they learn to value their Fe as they age) and for Fi it stays the same. Fi can take the "socially accepted" by Te glasses when they grow up but it's more "it's more efficient to follow social rules, it gets things done, lets you allow trouble" rather than "it makes people happy, it lets you fit in with the group and avoid making people uncomfortable".



> What is fake when you believe so much in it and you forget that it is fake? Fake can become a new reality, don't you think?


It can - for a while. But if you are going against your nature it will eventually influence your mental health (depression, anger issues etc).


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## Baconbits2 (Dec 20, 2019)

The articles that @tanstaafl28 posted are really good. Definitely re-affirmed my belief in being xNTP.

Found myself crossing lines or lying square in the middle on many key attributes. Even some cases where I completely disagreed with the INTP statement in favor of the ENTP one. 
Categorizing as INTP feels right, but some hardline decisions entirely buck the INTP trend without neatly fitting ENTP either. Especially now after this "transformation"

The pattern in the main deviating factors seem to be; an un-ignorable drive to grow, on point use of deep thinking & problem solving, and an almost finesse grip on social fundamentals.

Self-retreat is more about timed-relaxation and less about comfort & collecting thoughts. People aren't that draining: crowds, dancing, small talk are easy. Leading with gut & emotion then following up with detailed logic, rather than ranting off wikipedia-thoughts.

In essence still thinking and feeling like an INTP, but having clarity to connect deep thoughts with people in an effective way through _their emotions._ Accessing a wealthy database of information, but staying in the moment to bring original ideas to life.

*Helpful advice*
Speaking of inner voices, a tip I recently learned is to talk to yourself more... Be direct, efficient and positive. Recognize when your thoughts are forming a bad pattern and firmly state why they're bad and that you need to stop fretting. Then praise yourself when you're doing a good job. The effect is subtle, but surprisingly powerful. Later on you'll find yourself being less reactive and more in control of the emotions that wander.

Paraphasing a yogi, don't fight emotions. Let yourself feel them and let it flow through like water. You feel it, acknowledge it, and then move on. 

(use at your own discretion) I like to convert sadness, anxiety, frustration into rage/anger and then use that energy to go all out at the gym or _"god dammit, fuck all this bullshit, I need to stop thinking about it and just go do something!"_ Be wary of this though, I've heard anger is toxic to the body and just turns into depression; and my having control over adrenaline, was probably a skill that plays a large factor in the ability to focus anger for energy.

Find dope-ass music that feels like your old INTP self (if that makes sense?)
Just discovered Make up and Vanity Set's amazing motivational take on synth-wave. Happens to be exactly what music I hoped for when Tron's soundtrack released and my teen machine craving personality exploded. The first time I listened I got a strange feeling of exhilarating familiarity; like coming home after a year away at college. I felt powerful and aware.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

I use songs to describe feelings all the time. I find a song that really strikes a chord (pun intended) with me and I say: I feel like that! It really helps.


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## Baconbits2 (Dec 20, 2019)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I use songs to describe feelings all the time. I find a song that really strikes a chord (pun intended) with me and I say: I feel like that! It really helps.


Before transformation I used to only describe feelings like that with certain people.

I have specifically tailored playlists for different emotions or states of being; 75% of my music isn't shared except with the anonymous or people close to me. The rest is specifically tailored for crowds or groups of friends.

My elder brother, of 5 years, has similar taste & disposition, but is lacking in exploration & shares no links. My 5 year ex-girlfriend was the only person I showed everything to. Sometimes I think she feigned interest, other times she asked for the continued back-story

Music is how I experienced emotion for the longest time and probably the only reason I made it this far.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

@Baconbits2 Thanks for the advice. I love that song - don't know why - usually I dislike songs without lyrics but....that song made me close my eyes and just "feel it deep into the brain".
I'll listen to it whenever I need a "deep refresh - reconnection with myself".

Oh - I have same opinion. I think listening to music is an intimate act and no one should know what I'm listening to because I'm attaching songs to feelings and...that's just for me. I'll express them if I want to. Whenever I share a song to someone I get excited and I tend to listen to it again (at the same time with them) and imagine what the experience is like for that person and wonder how they interpret / what the listening experience is like for them.
Don't know. Sharing a song you experienced profound emotions on it is like...sharing a part of you. And that's not for everyone. They MUST deserve it, in the first place.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

impulsenine said:


> I want objective truth only in Science. I know there is no objective truth in reality, except for those that can be scientifically demonstrated. Everything is just our mind projections/interpretations. I really want, accept and follow "what makes sense to me" everytime.



You sound like some introvert perceiver especially this part, classic Si/Ni. NPs esp NTPs are usually pretty hardcore objectivists. Because thats what NE does, theres the world and then theres me trying to understand it is typicaly Ne psyche. Just my 2c.


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

Narcissistic traits, being simultaneously great with people and shit with people, and flitting between a desire for raw logic and raw feeling, all sound quite ENFP to me.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

HAL said:


> Narcissistic traits, being simultaneously great with people and shit with people, and flitting between a desire for raw logic and raw feeling, all sound quite ENFP to me.


narcissistic traits and ENFP don't really go together, quite oppositely we often suffer from a lot of self-doubt
I agree with the rest tho I can see them happening in any type who's perceiving-dom, S or N because F-T can be close together


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> narcissistic traits and ENFP don't really go together, quite oppositely we often suffer from a lot of self-doubt
> I agree with the rest tho I can see them happening in any type who's perceiving-dom, S or N because F-T can be close together


Yeah you're right, my bad. I'm showing some bias here because I have an ENFP mate who almost definitely has narcissistic personality disorder. Maybe's he's not ENFP but I can't think what other type he would fit into. He has a constant struggle between logic and emotion, and is very good with people (for his own gain - not for them).


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## Baconbits2 (Dec 20, 2019)

That's interesting; the majority of my music library is mostly without lyrics, only exceptions are high quality or motivational rap & rock.

Narcissism is probably playing _some_ role. I've certainly been susceptible to it in the past. Believing my (INTP) higher understandings made me a greater human being and sometimes fantasizing about being the perfect candidate for a human AI merger like the protagonist from the video game Deus Ex. 

I can't speak for @impulsenine, but I am simultaneously great with people and shit with people, and especially now, constantly struggling between logic and emotion.. So, some of that lands. However ENFP category feels way off. Leading with extroversion and feeling first? No way, they only play a large factor from time to time and usually due to extreme social pressure and human needs. Best friend is also ENFP and his social skills are flawless compared to my mere "emulations"


Turns out I'm not at peace as much as my posts appear/hope to be. The emotional mania previously described has been striking hard; and I objectively failed at socializing during a small Halloween party on molly (until recently, a highly reliable drug for social inspiration)

Last night almost lost my mind from stress and drowning it with a liter of wine. Suddenly felt inspiration to recover sanity by micro-dosing some shrooms I've have around from concerts. It worked like some crazy sanity pill, but I don't like the idea of relying on that despite this being a 2nd success.. This time I felt stuck like a frozen lightning rod. My roommate handed my food to me standing like some zombie from "I am Legend"

Do you guys have any tips, special music clips, stories, etc you'd like to share?

Could be the times + my world stressing from every angle and the unavailable soulmate from work driving me insane, but it _feels_ like something else too.

Either way, keep the interesting posts rolling.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

HAL said:


> Yeah you're right, my bad. I'm showing some bias here because I have an ENFP mate who almost definitely has narcissistic personality disorder. Maybe's he's not ENFP but I can't think what other type he would fit into. He has a constant struggle between logic and emotion, and is very good with people (for his own gain - not for them).


well, fwiw I don't believe one can develop NPD and also ENFP personality. NPD requires a lot of defensiveness against the world and how one impact's it. I think NPs are highly sensitive and aware of that because we're attuned to consider the information coming in from the world to incorporate into our thinking and ideas. NPDs are calculated and seek to have control over the environment based on their narcissistic needs, if anything they're some extreme J personality, under the MBTI system, or in Jung's theory an extreme Introvert.


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> well, fwiw I don't believe one can develop NPD and also ENFP personality. NPD requires a lot of defensiveness against the world and how one impact's it. I think NPs are highly sensitive and aware of that because we're attuned to consider the information coming in from the world to incorporate into our thinking and ideas. NPDs are calculated and seek to have control over the environment based on their narcissistic needs, if anything they're some extreme J personality, under the MBTI system, or in Jung's theory an extreme Introvert.


Hmm maybe, but I don't think narcissism is confined to J types or introvert types. Not at all. As far as I've ever known, NPD is basically doing whatever you can to maintain adoration, control and/or power over others. The friend I'm talking about isn't controlling at all, however he absolutely does all he can to make sure he feels like the best person in the room, usually by deliberately belittling others or doing something with them where he knows he can look like he 'won' (and worst is that most people will just see him as a wanker for being like that, but in his mind he feels victorious and that's all that matters). It's hard to explain, and to be honest I could be wrong. He certainly sits very fucking high on the narcissistic arsehole scale anyway, hah! And definitely not a J type. You could describe it as "sports bro" but dialled up to 10,000. People in his football league hate him too, and he has been given temporary bans for some of the shit he pulls on the pitch - he has told me he like to "play mind games" with people in order to win. Some of the shit he does can definitely be described somewhere in the DSM-5. 

But yeah, perhaps not ENFP... I'm only really good at typing NTs with any level of confidence. Maybe he's ESTP or something, I dunno. His main traits are narcissism, ultra competitiveness, high social confidence while still being a 'lone wolf' who can't make true friends easily, and a deep interest in logical discussions but a sad inability to use logic correctly to formulate arguments.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

HAL said:


> Hmm maybe, but I don't think narcissism is confined to J types or introvert types. Not at all. As far as I've ever known, NPD is basically doing whatever you can to maintain adoration, control and/or power over others. The friend I'm talking about isn't controlling at all, however he absolutely does all he can to make sure he feels like the best person in the room, usually by deliberately belittling others or doing something with them where he knows he can look like he 'won' (and worst is that most people will just see him as a wanker for being like that, but in his mind he feels victorious and that's all that matters). It's hard to explain, and to be honest I could be wrong. He certainly sits very fucking high on the narcissistic arsehole scale anyway, hah! And definitely not a J type. You could describe it as "sports bro" but dialled up to 10,000. People in his football league hate him too, and he has been given temporary bans for some of the shit he pulls on the pitch - he has told me he like to "play mind games" with people in order to win. Some of the shit he does can definitely be described somewhere in the DSM-5.
> 
> But yeah, perhaps not ENFP... I'm only really good at typing NTs with any level of confidence. Maybe he's ESTP or something, I dunno. His main traits are narcissism, ultra competitiveness, high social confidence while still being a 'lone wolf' who can't make true friends easily, and a deep interest in logical discussions but a sad inability to use logic correctly to formulate arguments.


Yet the definition of J in MBTI is that one wants to have control over the environment, of course that's not always to the detriment of others, but it's their psychological need regardless. I prefer to go with Jungian typology more than MBTI though, because MBTI has way too many inconsistencies, their 4 letter types and cognitive function theory don't match up for example. 

What you describe that he does, definitely sounds like a manifestation of controllingness, why do you say it's not? doesn't matter if others fall for it or don't care or just see him as asshole, point is he tries to make the environment reaffirm him even if it's in his mind. Which btw falls under introverted perception behaviors in Jungian typology, SI or NI. He sounds ESJ to me.


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> Yet the definition of J in MBTI is that one wants to have control over the environment, of course that's not always to the detriment of others, but it's their psychological need regardless. I prefer to go with Jungian typology more than MBTI though, because MBTI has way too many inconsistencies, their 4 letter types and cognitive function theory don't match up for example.
> 
> What you describe that he does, definitely sounds like a manifestation of controllingness, why do you say it's not? doesn't matter if others fall for it or don't care or just see him as asshole, point is he tries to make the environment reaffirm him even if it's in his mind. Which btw falls under introverted perception behaviors in Jungian typology, SI or NI. He sounds ESJ to me.


I'm probably describing this guy badly, he's as far from J type as you can get. He doesn't care about controlling his environment at all, he cares about utilising humans to prop up his ego. There doesn't even need to be an element of control. It's just doing/saying things until he gets the win. Almost like playing darts. Keep throwing until you hit bullseye.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

HAL said:


> I'm probably describing this guy badly, he's as far from J type as you can get. He doesn't care about controlling his to prop up his ego. There doesn't even need to be an element of control. It's just doing/saying things until he gets the win. Almost like playing darts. Keep throwing until you hit bullseye.



But needing to get a win is exactly at least part of controlling your environment... I think you're not considering how theyre the same.. What would you define as controlling the environment?


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## HAL (May 10, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> But needing to get a win is exactly at least part of controlling your environment... I think you're not considering how theyre the same.. What would you define as controlling the environment?


"A place for everything and everything in its place" is how I imagine the mixture of judging and controlling.

My mate cares for nothing when it comes to rules, rigour or correctness. Her performs basic human manipulation and that's about it.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

HAL said:


> "A place for everything and everything in its place" is how I imagine the mixture of judging and controlling.
> 
> My mate cares for nothing when it comes to rules, rigour or correctness. Her performs basic human manipulation and that's about it.


But your friend does do that from what you describe, putting himself on top of others as he thinks it should be, following his own rules of social interaction (where he gets to win) and forcing them on others, while being closed off to different perspectives from the outside world... the need to win is inherently linked to what Jung observed and characterized as introversion, the need to be on top of the environment and not be threatened by it and coupled with denial of rules, or other peoples' perspectives, some J is the most likely type. Jung even described SEs as lacking the need to dominate, for example. Not that a SE type will never feel that need but it won't come from his extraverted side.

Anyways, these kinds of things are where MBTI hits its limits very much...


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