# Non-Acceptance of Ni



## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

I feel I have noticed that Ni is not generally socially accepted. 

People tend to not give stock to it, especially in day to day life. Ti is valued and accepted; just look at all the theories on and use of logic. Te is valued and accepted; just look at how everyone likes someone who can organize stuff in day to day life and business related duties. Se is valued and accepted; everyone is always saying get out and experience the world by bungee jumping, mountain climbing, and going to the beach, etc. Si is valued and accepted; just look at all the traditions people say are good and follow. Fe is valued and accepted; just look at all sayings like treat others as you would like to be treated. Fi is valued and accepted; just look at all the sayings like be true to yourself. Ne is valued and accepted; just listen to all the people say "be innovative, come up with new ideas for us, think creatively." Ni however, gets put down as all in your head and people say things like "prove it."

Do you agree that this is so?

Why? Why not?

If so, why do you think it is this way?

Don't worry about hurting my feelings. I would like objective and subjective answers and discussions of all kinds.


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

*My 2 cents*



Rosebier said:


> I feel I have noticed that Ni is not generally socially accepted.
> 
> People tend to not give stock to it, especially in day to day life. Ti is valued and accepted; just look at all the theories on and use of logic. Te is valued and accepted; just look at how everyone likes someone who can organize stuff in day to day life business related duties. Se is valued and accepted; everyone is always saying get out and experience the world by bungee jumping, mountain climbing, and going to the beach, etc. Si is valued and accepted; just look at all the traditions people say are good and follow. Fe is valued and accepted; just look at all sayings like treat others as you would like to be treated. Fi is valued and accepted; just look at all the sayings like be true to yourself. Ne is valued and accepted; just listen to all the people say "be innovative, come up with new ideas for us, think creatively." Ni however, gets put down as all in your head and people say things like "prove it."
> 
> ...


I only wish I could use this function (Ni) and it actually work for once. I don't know about Se being accepted because people here are dissing us Sensors all the time calling us simple or other not so nice things, much like Feelers (double-whammy for some of us). I wish I heard people encourage the Se in me, unfortunately that wasn't the case. I can't related to Si at all, so no comment there lol. Te I'm not good with being one of the most disorganized people you could ever meet. I do agree people put way too much emphasis on that when some of us just can't "get it together" it's frustrating and we end up feeling inferior. Fe I'd like to be able to have more of but by your definition I have such a hard time with that in practise, theory wise it's great though. Fi well, I'm not sure because I've never heard anyone say be true to myself either. Ne I don't think I'm really good with either. 

It's a cultural thing why certain ones are seen as better than others, whereas I prefer the more useful ones such as my wishing to be able to tap into my inferior Ni.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

I think you hit the nail on the head when you described the general reaction to it:

"Prove it."

Ni is hard to understand. But why? Because it's the most mystical of the functions, the most psychic...the most impressive.

I'd say that's pretty good consolation for not being understood.:happy:


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

Revy2Hand said:


> I only wish I could use this function (Ni) and it actually work for once. I don't know about Se being accepted because people here are dissing us Sensors all the time calling us simple or other not so nice things, much like Feelers (double-whammy for some of us). I wish I heard people encourage the Se in me, unfortunately that wasn't the case. I can't related to Si at all, so no comment there lol. Te I'm not good with being one of the most disorganized people you could ever meet. I do agree people put way too much emphasis on that when some of us just can't "get it together" it's frustrating and we end up feeling inferior. Fe I'd like to be able to have more of but by your definition I have such a hard time with that in practise, theory wise it's great though. Fi well, I'm not sure because I've never heard anyone say be true to myself either. Ne I don't think I'm really good with either.
> 
> It's a cultural thing why certain ones are seen as better than others, whereas I prefer the more useful ones such as my wishing to be able to tap into my inferior Ni.


I know where you're at there. I have ridiculous Fe aspirational issues. Not that I want to be a feeler or anything, but there's a constant awareness that despite how much logic is valued and respected by society, it's social grace and people-skills that win the day in the end.

And Se _is_ indeed valued by society...hugely. Sensor disses really only happen on typology forums (unless I'm _really _naive). In the real world, we're the minority and often misunderstood because of it. Some people are bitter about it and spew elitist crap on here. They're no better than the bigoted sensors one encounters offline. Pay it no heed.:happy:


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## Neon Knight (Aug 11, 2010)

nevermore said:


> I know where you're at there. I have ridiculous Fe aspirational issues. Not that I want to be a feeler or anything, but there's a constant awareness that despite how much logic is valued and respected by society, it's social grace and people-skills that win the day in the end.


I think I've seen both being valued but in different contexts. Like people skills are needed for customer service jobs (which is the biggest growing industry, at least here), but to work in silicon valley type places you need logic skills.



nevermore said:


> And Se _is_ indeed valued by society...hugely. Sensor disses really only happen on typology forums (unless I'm _really _naive). In the real world, we're the minority and often misunderstood because of it. Some people are bitter about it and spew elitist crap on here. They're no better than the bigoted sensors one encounters offline. Pay it no heed.:happy:


Thanks so much! :happy: Chances are I'm the naive one (crappy Ni likely cause lol) I need to get out more or I really analyse things, likely both lol. To be honest I'm new to this stuff so I have no idea what I'd be looking for yet. Funny you mention the offline encounters because that is where I saw the most expressions of distaste having started, like if you got treated bad in one relationship, all people of that type are evil. I wish seriously people would quit with the generalizations though honestly. Lol, now I'll make a sweeping generalization and say I like talking to you NTs, myself :happy:


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Revy2Hand said:


> now I'll make a sweeping generalization and say I like talking to you NTs, myself :happy:


I like talking to them too. :wink:


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## Psychosmurf (Aug 22, 2010)

Hmm. Well Ni is obviously most apparent in Ni doms. That being said, Ni doms are quite rare compared to most other types, so it would _seem_ as if there is little appreciation of it. Also, people naturally find it hard to trust functions that are in opposing attitude to their own (i.e. Ne types) until they can be expressed in terms of their favored functions. :mellow:


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Psychosmurf said:


> Also, people naturally find it hard to trust functions that are in opposing attitude to their own (i.e. Ne types) *until they can be expressed in terms of their favored functions*. :mellow:


It takes more energy to use less preferred functions and intern creates stress. It is very taxing to always have to explain yourself in terms that don't meld perfectly with what you understand from a certain function.

For example, do you find it easy to understand Fe using Ti. Is it even possible? 

In order to get others to understand we have to find a way to relate to their Ni. This can be extremely challenging especially if their Ni is mainly subconscious in them. 

The only other option is to remain misunderstood. This sets up the stage for lots of loneliness, crying, and possibly bitterness and anger. 

Now I am throwing a pitty party. :crying: Poor me. :tongue:


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Ni is more important for the individual that has Ni more than societies acceptance or appreciation. Society does appreciate Introverted Intuition when we are able to properly show it. For INFJ types that's usually for the harmony of people when Ni entangles society. If Ni and Ti work's together then this becomes a great duo, sometimes we just need that nudge to show it to the world. Ni is not to concerned about showing itself to the outside world unless needed.
When people say "prove it" a lot of times they have an answer that has already been filtered through a system of process... just like in the show Bones, where one of the people creates a computer digital re-creation of a person or an event of a crime. That is kinda how Ni is sometimes with a tad of Ti except the proof of the computer...that can be hard to explain in detail sometimes.
I don't know if I agree that society accept's Ni or not. I do believe that society can benefit from a person that correlate's it into society.


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## Molock (Mar 10, 2010)

I feel like you are correct OP. Even within my family I struggle to make them understand some of my ideas and views. This is partly because I can't adequately explain them and partly because my family members are SJ's and SP's and can't relate (the opposite is true as well, sometimes I cannot comprehend why they do certain things). 

Anyway, there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of Ni in general, sometimes even between two Ni dom individuals.


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## Introspiritual (Mar 12, 2010)

nevermore said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head when you described the general reaction to it:
> 
> "Prove it."


A book I was reading recently on prophecy (Sylvia Browne - good prelude, odd predictions) had a wonderful exchange along those lines.

Skeptic : "Prove it."

Her : "You go prove it. I'm too busy doing it."

Ni just works, and I just do it. I can relate to others' descriptions of it, but the descriptions can't really express the mystery contained within the process. I suppose that's why I enjoy relating to other INxJs so much - there seems to be a mutual acceptance and respect for our shared lead process, without having to analyze it or explain it to someone else.


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## 0 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 (Nov 22, 2009)

You're exaggerating about how much the other functions are accepted. Ti and Fi are both rejected by mainstream society; overlogicall people and overly sensitive people. But yes, Ni is most rejected.



myjazz said:


> Ni is more important for the individual that has Ni more than societies acceptance or appreciation. Society does appreciate Introverted Intuition when we are able to properly show it.


That is the problem. They don't want to accept it as it is. Since they don't understand it, they make it into something mystical, which while flattering, brings them even further from true understanding.

Writing it off as "mystical" is equivalent to admitting that it cannot be understood. But, putting it into any concrete form erodes meaning as well (that is what makes me angry sometimes thinking about poetry. Concrete words cannot really bring an idea into light. The best a poet can do is leave the impression of the abstract). I don't know that Ni can be understood, but from the inside. It becomes even more complicated when you have try and communicate it with Te, logic efficient and simplistic. I would imagine Fe does a better job.


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## Psychosmurf (Aug 22, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> Is it even possible?
> 
> In order to get others to understand we have to find a way to relate to their Ni.


This thread caused me to completely re-examine what Ni means. Interestingly enough, it turns out that what I thought was Ti is actually Ni. :laughing: And now I just found out I'm really an INTJ (nah, nah, I'm back to INTP). :mellow:

So I really get where you're coming from since, in socionics, I'm an INTp. :crazy:


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

3pnt1415926535897932384 said:


> You're exaggerating about how much the other functions are accepted. Ti and Fi are both rejected by mainstream society; overlogicall people and overly sensitive people. But yes, Ni is most rejected.
> 
> 
> That is the problem. They don't want to accept it as it is. Since they don't understand it, they make it into something mystical, which while flattering, brings them even further from true understanding.
> ...


A lot of times Ni users don't understand Ni how can we expect others to always understand or as a collective whole we call society. When one grasp's their Ni with the understanding of Te or Ti to help portray it then we can bring Ni into the picture that can be accepted. Be glad that you have Te instead of Ti to help socialize your ideas and concepts of your Ni. With Ti it can be almost exhausting to do such even then people will still be like say what? At times I enjoy speaking to Ni users when my thoughts are Ni-afied then I can just say with some ease what I am trying to say without trying to make it sound logical or understandable. At times I enjoy speaking to T's like INTP's to push my Ti and correlate my Ni better in a unified way. Okay I am in some form of an tangent here......


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

myjazz said:


> A lot of times Ni users don't understand Ni how can we expect others to always understand or as a collective whole we call society. When one grasp's their Ni with the understanding of Te or Ti to help portray it then we can bring Ni into the picture that can be accepted. Be glad that you have Te instead of Ti to help socialize your ideas and concepts of your Ni. With Ti it can be almost exhausting to do such even then people will still be like say what? At times I enjoy speaking to Ni users when my thoughts are Ni-afied then I can just say with some ease what I am trying to say without trying to make it sound logical or understandable. At times I enjoy speaking to T's like INTP's to push my Ti and correlate my Ni better in a unified way. Okay I am in some form of an tangent here......


Absolutely 100% agreed. That was a very understandable tangent, to me at least. It was very refreshing to read that. Sounds like it came from my head... wait. *paranoid Ne burst in head* I'm just going to assume that is because we are 3 for 3.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> Absolutely 100% agreed. That was a very understandable tangent, to me at least. It was very refreshing to read that. Sounds like it came from my head... wait. *paranoid Ne burst in head* I'm just going to assume that is because we are 3 for 3.[/QUOTE
> 
> Yay! for 3 for 3


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## Psychosmurf (Aug 22, 2010)

Ah I just had a huge brainwave! There exists, in fact, an entire field of academics, which is of supreme importance to society, that seems to be using nothing BUT Ni. Economics.

Here's an example. Once upon a time, people thought that if a hooligan smashed a baker's window, then that would create work for the window repairman. He could then use the money he got from repairing the window to buy himself a record, and so on... And so, the economy would be stimulated. This argument was used to justify the idea that WWII brought the US out of the Great Depression.

Now, here comes the Ni part.

This argument held a lot of sway over people, until Frederick Bastiat changed the way people looked at the whole thing. He simply pointed out that if we look at the situation from the perspective of a world in which the hooligan didn't smash the window, we would see that the baker, instead of having to pay for window repair, would have bought a new suit, and then this would create work for the tailor, etc. This little insight, in fact, revolutionized the way people think about economics. 

And if you look at the field as a whole, you see that it consists mostly of these types of perspective shifts.

:mellow:


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Psychosmurf said:


> Ah I just had a huge brainwave! There exists, in fact, an entire field of academics, which is of supreme importance to society, that seems to be using nothing BUT Ni. Economics.



Economics was like duh for me. I made As with little to no effort. I still don't think of it as an actual class. I did not learn anything new from it. It was all common sense.


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## ImNoTJustletters (Sep 24, 2010)

I would have to say that I disagree with the premiss that dominant Ni types are not given the reguard that other types are given.
On the contrary, we are often acknowledged for our depth of understanding or grasp of a topic.

The problem we face as Ni's is clearly communicating what we know to be the case. (I pause here, cause I'm not sure how to say what I want to say next. :frustrating

I've heard many INTJs say, "it's not my fault they don't understand!" But the reality is that communication is made up of the message Giver, the Message itself, and the message Reciever. If I fail to use language that you understand, or if I fail to put the information in a format that you can comprehend, then I can't expect you to aprehend or appreciate my meaning.
(I hope you're following so far. If not, please say so.)

Tools that I have found most helpful in communicating abstract ideas include the _analogy _and the _allegory_. Unfortunately, not all types have the patience to listen while we try to make our point. (My ISTJ father would always cut me off or ignore me when I launched into a story that illusrtated a point I was trying to make.) In these cases it is only once the results of an idea can be seen that acknowledgement of the idea is given.


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## himynameisdead (May 31, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> I feel I have noticed that Ni is not generally socially accepted.
> 
> People tend to not give stock to it, especially in day to day life. Ti is valued and accepted; just look at all the theories on and use of logic. Te is valued and accepted; just look at how everyone likes someone who can organize stuff in day to day life and business related duties. Se is valued and accepted; everyone is always saying get out and experience the world by bungee jumping, mountain climbing, and going to the beach, etc. Si is valued and accepted; just look at all the traditions people say are good and follow. Fe is valued and accepted; just look at all sayings like treat others as you would like to be treated. Fi is valued and accepted; just look at all the sayings like be true to yourself. Ne is valued and accepted; just listen to all the people say "be innovative, come up with new ideas for us, think creatively." Ni however, gets put down as all in your head and people say things like "prove it."
> 
> ...



Ni is valued and accepted; just look at the bible and other religious texts ;o
Also, philosophy.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> Economics was like duh for me. I made As with little to no effort. I still don't think of it as an actual class. I did not learn anything new from it. It was all common sense.


I can identify with that.  I work in accounting and love macroeconomics. Never studied any of it.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

himynameisdead said:


> Ni is valued and accepted; just look at the bible and other religious texts ;o
> Also, philosophy.


Why is that Ni? :curious:


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

himynameisdead said:


> Ni is valued and accepted; just look at the bible and other religious texts ;o
> Also, philosophy.


The Bible is respected by its followers but Ni in people other than its creators is not. Many people who follow the traditions of religious tests such as the bible try to resist it from changing as the world changes. Ni doms are supposedly 1% of the population not like 100 out of all the people who were ever born, or according to Christians, only 1 person, Jesus. 

And from the opposite angle, there is a growing population of people, such as atheists - it is bad enough trying to explain Ni to an accepting friend or family member, much less a person in straight up opposition. 

The problem with not having new Ni doms to reevaluate past Ni dom vision put into place, is that over time, selfish folks will rationalize a way to twist it so it will be viewed as acceptable to do the horrible things they want to do, and then that will become the tradition instead of the originally intended. Another less blame placing reason is that when one Ni dom tried to explain what they saw, they needed to related to the non Ni doms with real life examples of what was normal in that day and age to that particular culture. That automatically puts a shelf life on the Ni doms work.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> The Bible is respected by its followers but Ni in people other than its creators is not. Many people who follow the traditions of religious tests such as the bible try to resist it from changing as the world changes. Ni doms are supposedly 1% of the population not like 100 out of all the people who were ever born, or according to Christians, only 1 person, Jesus.
> 
> And from the opposite angle, there is a growing population of people, such as atheists - it is bad enough trying to explain Ni to an accepting friend or family member, much less a person in straight up opposition.
> 
> The problem with not having new Ni doms to reevaluate past Ni dom vision put into place, is that over time, selfish folks will rationalize a way to twist it so it will be viewed as acceptable to do the horrible things they want to do, and then that will become the tradition instead of the originally intended. Another less blame placing reason is that when one Ni dom tried to explain what they saw, they needed to related to the non Ni doms with real life examples of what was normal in that day and age to that particular culture. That automatically puts a shelf life on the Ni doms work.


I was just about to write a response to this, but then I realised that I actually agree with you. :happy:


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## Psilocin (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm actually extremely inclined to agree with this.

I keep my inner-most Ni shit to myself.
Some of my reason being that others won't understand.
Some of my reason being that others shouldn't understand...

Ti+Ni+Se=Far out, maaaan.
(for the longest time, my Ni outweighed my Se so much that I thought I was Ne-dominant.)


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## ENTPreneur (Dec 13, 2009)

Well...if economics is Ni, then Ni really SHOULD be the most hated function...;-)

Just look at the mess the world is in due to the economic systems and structure. And it hast broken down YET. Something new has to be created. Will it be created using Ni?

I find SO many flaws in almost ANY economic theory..... even Nobel prize ones. Economists really should do more research into mass-psycholgy and school-behavior to come up with something. 

Well...I am just a grinch Ne who sits alone complaining in an online forum, but heed my words, lads and lassies....


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

ENTPreneur said:


> Well...if economics is Ni, then Ni really SHOULD be the most hated function...;-)
> 
> Just look at the mess the world is in due to the economic systems and structure. And it hast broken down YET. Something new has to be created. Will it be created using Ni?
> 
> ...


Hey, calm down.... economical policy makers ≠ economists :wink:


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

penchant said:


> Hey, calm down.... economical policy makers ≠ economists :wink:


Amen to that!


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

penchant said:


> Why is that Ni? :curious:


Introverted intuition is intuition turned inside, into the person's mind, into the human imagination. For this reason it is said to anthropomorphize abstractions and ideas and is associated with belief, with having a feeling that somehow inexplicably everything makes sense and makes sense from human point of view that is. This is why it is associated with religion as not only does religion require belief, you having faith in certain things, but also it offers a very anthropomorphic view of the world. This propensity to anthropomorphize ideas, to give into propensity of prescribing our own preferences, likes and dislikes, to the functioning of the world, is also said to be a property of Si, introverted sensing, another introverted irrational perceiving function.


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

vel said:


> Introverted intuition is intuition turned inside, into the person's mind, into the human imagination. For this reason it is said to anthropomorphize abstractions and ideas and is associated with belief, with having a feeling that somehow inexplicably everything makes sense and makes sense from human point of view that is. This is why it is associated with religion as not only does religion require belief, you having faith in certain things, but also it offers a very anthropomorphic view of the world. This propensity to anthropomorphize ideas, to give into propensity of prescribing our own preferences, likes and dislikes, to the functioning of the world, is also said to be a property of Si, introverted sensing, another introverted irrational perceiving function.


OK, I understand that. I guess I think I have a slightly different definition of religion then, but I see your point.

And that Si comment made a lot of sense to me in understanding how INFPs can sometimes end up in the same spot as me, but by a different route.

Thanks!


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

vel said:


> Introverted intuition is intuition turned inside, into the person's mind, into the human imagination. For this reason it is said to anthropomorphize abstractions and ideas and is associated with belief, with having a feeling that somehow inexplicably everything makes sense and makes sense from human point of view that is. This is why it is associated with religion as not only does religion require belief, you having faith in certain things, but also it offers a very anthropomorphic view of the world. This propensity to anthropomorphize ideas, to give into propensity of prescribing our own preferences, likes and dislikes, to the functioning of the world, is also said to be a property of Si, introverted sensing, another introverted irrational perceiving function.


I don't think I follow. It sounds like you just said Si and Ni are the same thing. Could you please help clarify?


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## SuperunknownVortex (Dec 4, 2009)

vel said:


> Introverted intuition is intuition turned inside, into the person's mind, into the human imagination. For this reason it is said to anthropomorphize abstractions and ideas and is associated with belief, with having a feeling that somehow inexplicably everything makes sense and makes sense from human point of view that is. This is why it is associated with religion as not only does religion require belief, you having faith in certain things, but also it offers a very anthropomorphic view of the world. ...


To 'anthropomorphize' means to attribute human characteristics to animals or non-living things, phenomena, material states and objects or abstract concepts.

My God, this is how I thought and felt (and still do!). 

For instance, when I recently tutored others about the second law of thermodynamics and entropy I felt unusually emotional and said something like this: 
"The sad irony here is that our universe is best in disorder...in chaos...and here we are wanting and expecting order." Of course, I laughed afterward and also said, "Let's leave that for the humanities majors." 
Regardless I _felt_ entropy; after reflecting on it entropy felt like a force I could reach out and touch. I felt it within, and I didn't feel at all comfortable.

I felt a flash of memory when I was mostly Ni:
I read voraciously. What were 'words' to others felt so real to me. I was frightened when, say, Albert Camus wrote about the Absurd: that 'cold', 'indifferent' universe. And that left chills down my spine. 
Or when I read 'The Plague' by Camus. The bacterium felt like an formidable enemy, yet I couldn't see or touch it. It felt like a force so real. 
There was no rhyme or reason to my mind, and I felt so 'irrational' and 'emotional'. 
I foresaw a lot of what was to happen within my own life and the lives around me, and, despite my inability at the time to express myself clearly or articulately, what happened happened. I even foresaw things that are happening now six or seven _years_ ago. The cycles of behaviors were so clear and, in a way, made sense. 
The 'enemy' was not only actual boundaries but also abstractions like 'meaninglessness' and 'hopelessness'. In fact, I leaned toward the latter for the longest time.

'How it all makes sense'. 
I seek those moments of clarity when everything comes together as a whole. Those moments are quite beautiful, but are quickly lost. Actual life seems to get in the way, but I've begun to treasure those moments of clarity. 

Ni is, yes, an undervalued function. A misunderstood function. But I've spent years finding ways to express it through word and action. Through critical thought and examination. Through writing courses. Through practical application. Through asking some serious questions that seem irrelevant to many others but myself. But very few care to listen to it until, of course, the shit hits the proverbial fan. And then they wonder, "Hmm...why didn't we listen? Why didn't we see?" To which I reply, "I told you so." But since I'm working on not being so arrogant, I'd might as well add, "Well, we might as well rebuild."


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> I don't think I follow. It sounds like you just said Si and Ni are the same thing. Could you please help clarify?


They are similar. Both are perceiving 'irrational' functions. Both are introverted. Bot deal with the past. Only Ni deals in connections between objects and Si deals in objects themselves.


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## thegirlcandance (Jul 29, 2009)

You are very right in saying how many people's reaction to Ni is "prove it".... but think about it -- if only INFJs and INTJs are a small % of the population, how can you expect someone who does not really use this function to be able to "see" the same "vision"?

Taking that into consideration.... hoping that people will accept the vision is not possible, unfortunately. However, the wonderful function of Ni can be channelled to your advantage and to those around you in a way that they won't notice it so you don't have to worry about them accepting it. 
If they don't "see" the same thing you do, who cares? As long as you see it and try to adjust the environment as you feel is best.


Here's a great example to put this more into context with what I have been doing on a daily basis:
The last couple months I have been student teaching. One of the things I've noticed come out in myself these last couple months is making my students aware of what I see in them via my Ni. 
Examples: 
- If a student is stressed out about an exam that I am going to give and I see them studying a lot and doubting that they will do well, I can often "see" if they will do well or not, so if I know they will do well then I will tell them to help them relax. If I "see" that they may have difficulty in a certain area then I will help them in that area.
- Many of my students I see where they are while in my class and can see what path they are heading down for the future (though, unfortunately, I may not always know what their past has been to see WHY they act as they do). I simply make a comments to hopefully skew their pathway in hopes they will take a different path. I often do this with positive reinforcement of their strengths. Reflecting what they project to me via Ni back to them in this way helps a lot (to mine advantage and them). It works better at young adolescents age in this example because they are old enough to understand but not old enough to argue with you (on average).
- I've noticed lately that I'll often make comments on what I "know" about someone not only at school but just in day-to-day tasks. It just helps people be more self-aware and makes them know that I can see that. The other night, I told one guy playing pool that he would redeem himself on the next shot and I laughed when he responded "Yes I know I will". :Laugh: He was pretty sharp... probably an NT of some sorts from what I observed.

So back to topic... lack of acceptance of Ni? Who cares - Ni is like my secret weapon to improve my environment that a lot of people don't see or need to see. They just need to experience what I reflect to them. :wink:


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

Really? you dont think it is appreciated? Well at least not in a cultural level, becuase our era doesn't have a strong spiritual fabric to keep up with all the technological advances. Yet... 
But in a personal level, Ni is greatly appreciated by friends, family and any other people who can benefit from great advise and guidence. Someone who has the Ni powers of foresight, might not be understood, but he/she can be greatly admired for their enigmatic powers. 
Ni to me is like the ninja function; most dont see it coming, but its influence on people is fatally effective. I think it works to your advantage that this function is not so publicized, since it make you look more unique.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Si deals with the past such as recalling past experiences and the details.

Ni deals with the future such as foreseeing events and how they will come to be


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Humaning said:


> Really? you dont think it is appreciated? Well at least not in a cultural level, becuase our era doesn't have a strong spiritual fabric to keep up with all the technological advances. Yet...
> But in a personal level, Ni is greatly appreciated by friends, family and any other people who can benefit from great advise and guidence. Someone who has the Ni powers of foresight, might not be understood, but he/she can be greatly admired for their enigmatic powers.
> Ni to me is like the ninja function; most dont see it coming, but its influence on people is fatally effective. I think it works to your advantage that this function is not so publicized, since it make you look more unique.


I wish there were more people like you in the world. :happy: It seems a lot of ENFPs tend to appreciate it. I wish I had more of them in my life or at least one very close ENFP. You guys are awesome. :wink:

Oh, and I LOVE your multi-colored lion avatar! It is like a techno music space lion. :crazy:



myjazz said:


> Si deals with the past such as recalling past experiences and the details.
> 
> Ni deals with the future such as *foreseeing events and how they will come to be[*/QUOTE]
> 
> Yup, and most people don't believe that this exists. They make comments like "oh, so you are using sourcery" or "Ns just are unable to communicate."


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## penchant (Sep 20, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> myjazz said:
> 
> 
> > Si deals with the past such as recalling past experiences and the details.
> ...


Which is just so plain ignorant! I mean, actually, who does not foresee events? Anyone would be able to tell that something falling of the kitchen table will hit the kitchen floor. Don't know if that's Ni, but it sure is "foreseeing", and really anyone really could do it.

Rant off. Sorry...


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

"Introverted intuition apprehends the images which arise from the a priori, i.e. the inherited foundations of the unconscious mind. These archetypes, whose innermost nature is inaccessible to experience, represent the precipitate of psychic functioning of the whole ancestral line, i.e. the heaped-up, or pooled, experiences of organic existence in general, a million times repeated, and condensed into types. Hence, in these archetypes all experiences are [p. 508] represented which since primeval time have happened on this planet. Their archetypal distinctness is the more marked, the more frequently and intensely they have been experienced. The archetype would be -- to borrow from Kant -- the noumenon of the image which intuition perceives and, in perceiving, creates.

Since the unconscious is not just something that lies there, like a psychic caput mortuum, but is something that coexists and experiences inner transformations which are inherently related to general events, introverted intuition, through its perception of inner processes, gives certain data which may possess supreme importance for the comprehension of general occurrences: it can even foresee new possibilities in more or less clear outline, as well as the event which later actually transpires. Its prophetic prevision is to be explained from its relation to the archetypes which represent the law-determined course of all experienceable things."


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

"Introverted intuition apprehends the images which arise from the a priori, i.e. the inherited foundations of the unconscious mind. These archetypes, whose innermost nature is inaccessible to experience, represent the precipitate of psychic functioning of the whole ancestral line, i.e. the heaped-up, or pooled, experiences of organic existence in general, a million times repeated, and condensed into types. Hence, in these archetypes all experiences are [p. 508] represented which since primeval time have happened on this planet. Their archetypal distinctness is the more marked, the more frequently and intensely they have been experienced. The archetype would be -- to borrow from Kant -- the noumenon of the image which intuition perceives and, in perceiving, creates.

Since the unconscious is not just something that lies there, like a psychic caput mortuum, but is something that coexists and experiences inner transformations which are inherently related to general events, introverted intuition, through its perception of inner processes, gives certain data which may possess supreme importance for the comprehension of general occurrences: it can even foresee new possibilities in more or less clear outline, as well as the event which later actually transpires. Its prophetic prevision is to be explained from its relation to the archetypes which represent the law-determined course of all experienceable things."

Didn't mean to double quote......maybe it just needed it anyway


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

"The two types just depicted are almost inaccessible to external judgment. Because they are introverted and have in consequence a somewhat meagre capacity or willingness for expression, they offer but a frail handle for a telling criticism. Since their main activity is directed within, nothing is outwardly visible but reserve, secretiveness, lack of sympathy, or uncertainty, and an apparently groundless perplexity. When anything does come to the surface, it usually consists in indirect manifestations of inferior and relatively unconscious functions. Manifestations of such a nature naturally excite a certain environmental prejudice against these types. Accordingly they are mostly underestimated, or at least misunderstood. To the same degree as they fail to understand themselves -- because they very largely lack judgment -- they are also powerless to understand why they are so constantly undervalued by public opinion. They cannot see that their outward-going expression is, as a matter of fact, also of an inferior character. Their vision is enchanted by the abundance of subjective events. What happens there is so captivating, and of such inexhaustible attraction, that they do not appreciate the fact that their habitual communications to their circle express very, little of that real experience in which they themselves are, as it were, caught up. The fragmentary and, as a rule, quite episodic character of their communications make too great a demand upon the understanding and good will of their circle; furthermore, their mode of expression lacks that flowing warmth to the object which alone can have convincing force. On the contrary, these types show very often a brusque, repelling demeanour towards the outer world, although of this they are quite unaware, and have not the least intention of showing it. We shall form a [p. 512] fairer judgment of such men and grant them a greater indulgence, when we begin to realize how hard it is to translate into intelligible language what is perceived within. Yet this indulgence must not be so liberal as to exempt them altogether from the necessity of such expression. This could be only detrimental for such types. Fate itself prepares for them, perhaps even more than for other men, overwhelming external difficulties, which have a very sobering effect upon the intoxication of the inner vision. But frequently only an intense personal need can wring from them a human expression."


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

penchant said:


> Which is just so plain ignorant! I mean, actually, who does not foresee events? Anyone would be able to tell that something falling of the kitchen table will hit the kitchen floor. Don't know if that's Ni, but it sure is "foreseeing", and really anyone really could do it.
> 
> Rant off. Sorry...


That is true-- anybody can draw a picture or droodle pieces here and there. Does this make everybody an artist or a painter? There are those who are good artist and those who paint Masterpieces, art that is priceless and imitated by many.


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> I wish there were more people like you in the world. :happy: It seems a lot of ENFPs tend to appreciate it. I wish I had more of them in my life or at least one very close ENFP. You guys are awesome. :wink:
> 
> Oh, and I LOVE your multi-colored lion avatar! It is like a techno music space lion. :crazy:
> QUOTE]
> ...


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## ImNoTJustletters (Sep 24, 2010)

myjazz said:


> "Introverted intuition apprehends the images which arise from the a priori, i.e. the inherited foundations of the unconscious mind. These archetypes, whose innermost nature is inaccessible to experience, represent the precipitate of psychic functioning of the whole ancestral line, i.e. the heaped-up, or pooled, experiences of organic existence in general, a million times repeated, and condensed into types. Hence, in these archetypes all experiences are [p. 508] represented which since primeval time have happened on this planet. Their archetypal distinctness is the more marked, the more frequently and intensely they have been experienced. The archetype would be -- to borrow from Kant -- the noumenon of the image which intuition perceives and, in perceiving, creates.
> 
> Since the unconscious is not just something that lies there, like a psychic caput mortuum, but is something that coexists and experiences inner transformations which are inherently related to general events, introverted intuition, through its perception of inner processes, gives certain data which may possess supreme importance for the comprehension of general occurrences: it can even foresee new possibilities in more or less clear outline, as well as the event which later actually transpires. Its prophetic prevision is to be explained from its relation to the archetypes which represent the law-determined course of all experienceable things."


That is an _absolutely awesome _quote! Can you please tell me where it came form?


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

ImNoTJustletters said:


> That is an _absolutely awesome _quote! Can you please tell me where it came form?


Carl Jung.......... Psychological Types


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Humaning said:


> But everytime I get into my Ni trances I end up being way to paranoid and prone to believe fantastical conspiracy theories, which I find more counter productive... I truly admire that you can remain sane while using this function as your main mode of understanding the world.
> 
> Thank you! "Techno music space lion" is a great way to capture its awesome essence! Since you brought up avatars, I would like to tell you that evangelion is a great anime and I find it awesome that you can identify with it as well. What does the caption say? I am unable to read it...


I love Ni trance's give a Ni-Ti trance for the techno Lion.


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## Female INFJ (Feb 27, 2010)

*Transmission of feelings*



myjazz said:


> That is true-- anybody can draw a picture or droodle pieces here and there. Does this make everybody an artist or a painter? There are those who are good artist and those who paint Masterpieces, art that is priceless and imitated by many.


myjazz,

I do not have a clue about any of this discussion here, in this Thread. I will try to read and understand. However your comments about 'Art' have captured my interest, and if I may post some quotes here, that have come to mind............I am particularly interested in the first and last quote. 

The first quote kind of relates to part of what you are saying here, in your post. The last one, kind of answers a question I have long had about Spirituality and Art. If it relates to Ni please say more. If not, send me / post a thought or two that comes up in your mind, elsewhere.

Art is not a handicraft, it is the transmission of feeling the artist has experienced.

LEO TOLSTOY, What is Art?

Art is a microscope which the artist fixes on the secrets of his soul, and shows to people these secrets which are common to all.

LEO TOLSTOY, Diary


Great works of art are only great because they are accessible and comprehensible to everyone.

LEO TOLSTOY, What Is Art?


Art is the uniting of the subjective with the objective, of nature with reason, of the unconscious with the conscious, and therefore art is the highest means of knowledge.

LEO TOLSTOY, What Is Art?


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Humaning said:


> Rosebier said:
> 
> 
> > I wish there were more people like you in the world. :happy: It seems a lot of ENFPs tend to appreciate it. I wish I had more of them in my life or at least one very close ENFP. You guys are awesome. :wink:
> ...


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> Humaning said:
> 
> 
> > It is even difficult for an Ni dom to not feel taken out of their comfort zone/reality and put into some weird twilight zone when they see Ni visions clearly. I have gone back and forth for years questioning and being confident in it. The thing that really saved me from this was feeling secure and realizing that it is never static and it moves and changes with every situation. Knowing that it does in fact fit with reality depending on how you phrase it is the key.
> ...


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Humaning said:


> Rosebier said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are right. All that matters is if you are able to communicate the feeling acurately. I mean, I can relate to the state you are talking about and I am not an Ni dom. Hahaha most my expirience with that state of mind come from deep meditation and psychadelic expiriences, though. I wonder what it would be like to live and trip 24/7.
> ...


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

Such coy looks would be a bittersweet torture.
I would quickly thirst to know all your secret desires
I am told I can be very convincing...


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> If you whispered that to me, I would definitely gin you a funny/awkward look that leaves you feeling partly amused and partly confused. That way I can evade having to give away how i really feel and remain reclusive - INFJ style. :tongue:


I must resist.....:crazy:


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

WHAO! Whao... whao. whao. 

WHAAAAOOOOO. whao. whao. whao whao 

*takes deep breath* Ok I'm better now.


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## thehigher (Apr 20, 2009)

I'd say Fi isn't valued and accepted. Maybe some of it's findings that were discovered a longgg time ago and popularized by Se. I know what you mean though. A lot of people don't get Ni.... nor do they think they should. But with Fi .... people think its too much emotion and too sensitive. It's all kind of.... relative i guess. Everyone has their down points. I do agree that the T functions are pretty widely accepted.... though even then they get ridiculed for being too insensitive.


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## Humaning (Aug 29, 2010)

thehigher said:


> I'd say Fi isn't valued and accepted. Maybe some of it's findings that were discovered a longgg time ago and popularized by Se. I know what you mean though. A lot of people don't get Ni.... nor do they think they should. But with Fi .... people think its too much emotion and too sensitive. It's all kind of.... relative i guess. Everyone has their down points. I do agree that the T functions are pretty widely accepted.... though even then they get ridiculed for being too insensitive.


To me Fi is the most volatile function of all. I am willing to bet that there is a greater disparity between our Fi's than our Ne's. Fi can be melancholic/empathetic, egocentric/selfserving, puposeful/pragmatic, or spiritual/enlightened. I can unsderstand why many people can be unconfortable with this rapid transitions. I dont think they demean it completely because more than any other function, Fi is the most intrinsically human; if you tried to implement all the functions into a robot you would have an relatively easier chance encoding any other functions in its artificial psyche. 
Which is why Wall-E is so endearing :happy:


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## himynameisdead (May 31, 2010)

vel said:


> Introverted intuition is intuition turned inside, into the person's mind, into the human imagination. For this reason it is said to anthropomorphize abstractions and ideas and is associated with belief, with having a feeling that somehow inexplicably everything makes sense and makes sense from human point of view that is. This is why it is associated with religion as not only does religion require belief, you having faith in certain things, but also it offers a very anthropomorphic view of the world. This propensity to anthropomorphize ideas, to give into propensity of prescribing our own preferences, likes and dislikes, to the functioning of the world, is also said to be a property of Si, introverted sensing, another introverted irrational perceiving function.


I love it when other people can explain my understanding  Nothing make me happier and feel less lonely.


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Fi is not welcomed here...just kidding much loves for thehigher


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## Random Ness (Oct 13, 2010)

OK, it totally depends on the situation. I don't see any function as more socially acceptable as a whole.

I'm not sure about Ni and how it is accepted/not accepted. I can explain I vs. E, F vs. T, and J vs. P, but not specifically Ni.

It looks like in this thread, people are mostly whining about when their main function is the only one that's not accepted. >____>


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## myjazz (Feb 17, 2010)

Random Ness said:


> OK, it totally depends on the situation. I don't see any function as more socially acceptable as a whole.
> 
> I'm not sure about Ni and how it is accepted/not accepted. I can explain I vs. E, F vs. T, and J vs. P, but not specifically Ni.
> 
> It looks like in this thread, people are mostly whining about when their main function is the only one that's not accepted. >____>


Are you trolling or is this a serious post?


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

I think Ni is better accepted when presented with a humble attitude - probably why IRL INFJs are usually better liked than INTJs, or at least that is my observation. All too often a Ni user can seem arrogant in their conclusions, and when they are wrong, they stubbornly stick to them in a way that seems delusional. And yes, you ARE wrong sometimes.

Ni is just a thought process, and it is not superior or inferior to other functions. It's not some mystical god-like force, nor is it necessarily delusional. I realize that outside of message boards, Ni thinking may not be appreciated so much, but within them, it's rather annoying to see it put on a pedestal all the time.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

> The problem with Ni is once you show the work you got done with it, it either goes straight over their head (and is therefore utter nonsense) or makes so much sense that they feel dumb for not realizing it before. Neither appears to be the fruit of any sort of creativity, though, and just makes the other party feel really dumb.


I found this on another forum and it resonates a lot. Maybe more for INTJs though. But Ni is not only hard to communicate, but communicating it won't usually do it service either.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

Me and my Ni have a better relationship than in the past, I just need to balance it with very solid values too.


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

Rosebier said:


> The Bible is respected by its followers but Ni in people other than its creators is not. Many people who follow the traditions of religious tests such as the bible try to resist it from changing as the world changes. Ni doms are supposedly 1% of the population not like 100 out of all the people who were ever born, or according to Christians, only 1 person, Jesus.
> 
> And from the opposite angle, there is a growing population of people, such as atheists - it is bad enough trying to explain Ni to an accepting friend or family member, much less a person in straight up opposition.
> 
> The problem with not having new Ni doms to reevaluate past Ni dom vision put into place, is that over time, selfish folks will rationalize a way to twist it so it will be viewed as acceptable to do the horrible things they want to do, and then that will become the tradition instead of the originally intended. Another less blame placing reason is that when one Ni dom tried to explain what they saw, they needed to related to the non Ni doms with real life examples of what was normal in that day and age to that particular culture. That automatically puts a shelf life on the Ni doms work.


Being Ni dom should *not* be an excuse to justify doing horrible things though.

That's where values and personal integrity come into play.


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## lirulin (Apr 16, 2010)

izzie said:


> Being Ni dom should *not* be an excuse to justify doing horrible things though.
> 
> That's where values and personal integrity come into play.


:mellow: Who ever said it was???


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## Raichan (Jul 15, 2010)

lirulin said:


> :mellow: Who ever said it was???


I was just clarifying/adding my view :dry: 

Because it was written,'' over time, selfish folks will rationalize a way to twist it so it will be viewed as acceptable to do the horrible things they want to do, and then that will become the tradition instead of the originally intended'' -- people who use Ni to justify doing horrible things and conform to useless traditions aren't being smart....and, dare I say it, may not really be using Ni (maybe).


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

izzie said:


> I was just clarifying/adding my view :dry:
> 
> Because it was written,'' over time, selfish folks will rationalize a way to twist it so it will be viewed as acceptable to do the horrible things they want to do, and then that will become the tradition instead of the originally intended'' -- people who use Ni to justify doing horrible things and conform to useless traditions aren't being smart....and, dare I say it, may not really be using Ni (maybe).


I was not talking specifically about people who use Ni when I said selfish people. I just specifically meant selfish people. That could be any type.


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