# Always considered I was ESTP, but now...



## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

I'll get back to you with a list of quotes explaining why he's not. I'm in between classes right now, I don't have time to do that at the moment.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Here's a few I gathered during the boring bit of class:



> I have a problem with anger.
> 
> I stress easily.
> 
> ...


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

bigtex1989 said:


> My first guess was going to be ISFP, and as soon as you said "I relate to Fi a lot" I was sold.
> 
> I didn't really see any Ne in your posts. Also note, that Se is not some "hedonistic, ultra experience" function just as feeling functions are not about "sitting and crying about meanies".
> 
> ...


How strange, I can actually relate to ISFP but my heart tells me it's just not quite me. I am not that err warm and fluffy? I do not know how to describe.

Ugh, I am so confused! I relate to everything and yet to nothing! I can describe a ton about myself, then later realise I've missed something else that might confuse people into perceiving things about me that's not true. How does one be honest about their real self and in how much measurement? I may obsess over one part of myself one moment, then later feel and realise that it only applies to certain situations, or that infact another part of myself is just as strong. 

Then later, I throw my hands up in the air in total confusion because perhaps I was wrong about both afterall and I am infact more like something else. It's maddening.

Ontop of it all I struggle to just step back from it all because I really want to know so I can 'get on with my life' as it were. 



@Jabberbroccoli I am a lady!


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

If it helps, I am pretty sure I am type 3w4.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

I know -.-

I just keep seeing the giant gun in your avatar and make assumptions.

Another quote about why you're not an ENTP


> I find I am much better at admitting I am wrong


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> I know -.-
> 
> I just keep seeing the giant gun in your avatar and make assumptions.
> 
> Another quote about why you're not an ENTP


Haha, but it is a lady holding the rocket launcher :tongue:

Yes, I also thought that.

I do get myself into debates and I am always saying my opinion and whatnot, but I am better at admitting I am wrong. I wandered into the ENTP section and related to many things but I am not sure I am quite as argumental. I still argue/debate but I can't tell if it's at the level of ENTP?

Edit: Um, on another note I don't think I actually feel inferior when males jeer at me. Perhaps just pissed off/annoyed. I am sorry this is so confusing. Maybe I should fill the form in again? :S


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Y


Eighty said:


> How strange, I can actually relate to ISFP but my heart tells me it's just not quite me. I am not that err warm and fluffy? I do not know how to describe.
> 
> Ugh, I am so confused! I relate to everything and yet to nothing! I can describe a ton about myself, then later realise I've missed something else that might confuse people into perceiving things about me that's not true. How does one be honest about their real self and in how much measurement? I may obsess over one part of myself one moment, then later feel and realise that it only applies to certain situations, or that infact another part of myself is just as strong.
> 
> ...


For the record, the above quote is very Fi-heavy.

@Staffan: Go back and re-read her answer to question 18 on the questionnaire: it's a pretty big strike against Ne.

@Jabberbroccoli: If she IS a Te-dom, ENTJ is more likely than ESTJ: she clearly uses Se over Ne. Having said that, I don't think she's Fi-inferior: she's too comfortable using it for that to be her last function. I'm actually starting to think xSFP would fit better. If not, then she's an ESTP (again, definitely not Feeling inferior, and definitely not Se-inferior).


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

Is there perhaps another set of questions I could answer? To add more information to this confusion.

@_dark_ romantic I am not an ENTJ - I can see things from other peoples perspectives quite well. I do not relate to wanting to lead in the corporate world. I want to create and be busy doing hands on things of a variety to keep and spark my interest.

I am fairly sure I am not Fi dom. Just one step into the ISFP area and their explanation of it, tells me no. I may be caring and helpful, but it is not my utmost priority. I help because I know it needs to be done. It does not make me feel espcially amazing, it's almost like a chore but I do not moan or let it bother me. I do it, get on with it and know that the 'good person' part of me has been checked.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Eighty said:


> Is there perhaps another set of questions I could answer? To add more information to this confusion.


Nah, no need: I think we're pretty close to figuring this out.



> @darkromantic I am not an ENTJ - I can see things from other peoples perspectives quite well. I do not relate to wanting to lead in the corporate world.


That's more of a stereotype than anything. Not all ENTJs are out for world domination. :laughing: Like I said, though, I don't think you're a Te-dom. What usually happens when you see things from other people's perspectives?



> I want to create and be busy doing hands on things of a variety to keep and spark my interest.


Which sounds a lot like Se to me... nevertheless, we'll keep probing. :tongue:

EDIT: Just saw your post edit. In that case, tell me about how you typically reason things out.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> What usually happens when you see things from other people's perspectives?


When I see things from others perspectives, I just sort of think, "well that's what it's like for them" in a way to stop me or others from judging them or holding things against them. It's just to try and understand that they may not appear a certain way and that you don't know what they might be really thinking or what the real situation is. In another situation, I can see things from their perspective as in, I can tell what they are up to or what they are saying in an attempt to get out of the situation. I constantly see through my ESFJ/ENFJ sister (who struggles to understand me) who does things for others so that she can gain a favour from them later, whether conciously or not. She feels no guilt over this and happily uses people.



Dark Romantic said:


> EDIT: Just saw your post edit. In that case, tell me about how you typically reason things out.


This is hard. How do I reason things out? I sort of need a situation to be able to think how I do that. Sometimes I get to a conclusion quite naturally but mostly feel I use reasons that make logical sense as well feeling right to my principles/values or inner pride (?). Can you be more specific to a situation? How do I reason what sort of situation?


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> Y
> 
> For the record, the above quote is very Fi-heavy.
> 
> ...


Just thought I'd warn you now, @Staffan doesn't believe in cognitive functions, although you're right.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

"Here's a few I gathered during the boring bit of class

"have a problem with anger." The possibly most impulsive type and no one has anger issues? 

"I stress easily." Also more of N than S.

"I'm organised." I have the same item on my list so we will have to agree to disagree on that one.

"I would like to be thought as a professional" 

"I also yearn to have a place I can call home and that is mine and ... treat myself and others without guilt." 


"[It makes me feel inferior] when groups of people (normally males) jeer at me or say things. Or when someone very wise and professional tells me they are disappointed in me."

These are Barnum statements that fit most people.


"I want to experience it, hands on. I'll look for instructions and guides" This is contradictory since it implies both the practical and theoretica approach.

"I analyze principles and if skeptickle[sic] perhaps look for information?" How is this not NT?

"I feel I am better at responsibilities and considering the implications of my actions." This one is problematic, I'll admit that.

"I am... helpful, friendly, and caring." I relate to Fi a lot, I think I honestly do care, I am sensitive"

True, but she also said "ENTP could be a possibility actually... That would explain my lack of putting peoples feelings into decision making?" And what you base decisions on weighs more heavily in my opinion.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

Yes I think the trouble is through everything I have said, I haven't specified what things weigh more on my character than others and in what process?

I didn't know how to answer the form to best represent myself rather than just explaining things that can apply to all sorts of personalities.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> Y
> 
> @Staffan: Go back and re-read her answer to question 18 on the questionnaire: it's a pretty big strike against Ne.


*"18) What kind of things do you pay the least attention to in your life?
*Theories that cannot be proved etc or just simply speculating and talking about things that noone knows for sure. I hate politics and news. I tend to neglect that a lot because it winds me up. I won't pay attention to the latest music playing or fashion trend, I prefer to just pick what I like. I don't pay any attention to people looking for attention or talking about mundane common shows that everyone else watches. I much prefer the weird and wonderful."

There are always inconsistencies and my list of quotes is more extensive than this and points to ENTP. I'm also not so sure that an ENTP needs to be interested in politics; there are certainly a lot of sensors who are into it. Lack of interest in mainstream pop culture is probably more N than S. 

And by the way, it's true that I don't believe in cognitive functions like @JungyesMBTIno says. This because I just don't see it and also because there is no evidence of it - and the MBTI proponents have had 50 years to prove it so I think we can safely say it's not going to happen. For more on this: https://www.capt.org/JPT/article/JPT_Vol69_0109.pdf However, a purely dichotomous view of types coincides with the view of cognitive functions in this and some other cases. We both expect ENTP to show extraverted intuition. So it is irrelevant in this case.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@Staffan

Yeah, so most of us here see it and you don't, so that somehow makes you more right? But how the hell can you even attribute behaviors to "type" if there is no foundation??? What are you typing???


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> @Staffan
> 
> Yeah, so most of us here see it and you don't, so that somehow makes you more right? But how the hell can you even attribute behaviors to "type" if there is no foundation??? What are you typing???


I thought I'd take a chance discussing with you again to see if you were less quarrelsome than before. I guess that was naive.

Anyone else wonder where I stand in this just read the article.


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Staffan said:


> *"18) What kind of things do you pay the least attention to in your life?
> *Theories that cannot be proved etc or just simply speculating and talking about things that noone knows for sure. I hate politics and news. I tend to neglect that a lot because it winds me up. I won't pay attention to the latest music playing or fashion trend, I prefer to just pick what I like. I don't pay any attention to people looking for attention or talking about mundane common shows that everyone else watches. I much prefer the weird and wonderful."
> 
> There are always inconsistencies and my list of quotes is more extensive than this and points to ENTP. I'm also not so sure that an ENTP needs to be interested in politics; there are certainly a lot of sensors who are into it. Lack of interest in mainstream pop culture is probably more N than S.
> ...


Well, first off, if you don't believe in cognitive functions, there is very little you and I can discuss, as the entire theory and any attempt at typing is based on them. Second, I read through your list of quotes; none are exclusive to ENTPs, and can in fact apply to several other types (ESTP being the one that came to mind most strongly). Third, even if you DO take it on a purely dichotomic basis, she clearly prefers S over N, and probably F over T, so she's more likely to be an ESFP than an ENTP.

@Eighty: I'm going to hop on a computer before I respond to you; this stupid phone is ticking me off.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

Staffan said:


> "Here's a few I gathered during the boring bit of class
> 
> "have a problem with anger." The possibly most impulsive type and no one has anger issues?
> 
> ...


See, I relate to none of those. It takes alot to anger me, and I never stress. These may hold true for a say, ENFJ, but not at all for an ENTP. Being an ENTP myself, I chose those quotes by finding things I did not relate at all to. Calling some of those "Barnum Statements" is contradictory, because they do not apply to me, myself being the type discussed.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

I'm filling in the form again! See what happens. I have been very confused lately.

*1) What aspect of your personality made you unsure of your type?*
Ne vs Se

*2) What do you yearn for in life? Why?*
Happiness. And what comes with that is figuring out what makes me happy. I'm pretty sure this inolves a career that sparks my interests as well as a variety of jobs and hands-on things to keep me stimulated. Nothing too routine and mundane. Hobbies and experiences - I feel capabable of a vareity of things. It's deciding what. I would like my own place - seriously who doesn't? I don't really like living with other people, I like my way of doing things and it's my place that I want to create a system of. Having said that, it can be stressfull. I take on A LOT at once and beat myself up for not doing it correctly. I constantly try to do better, nothing is ever good enough, I genuinly usually feel I've been lazy somewhere and let myself down.

*3) Think about a time where you felt like you were at your finest. Tell us what made you feel that way.*
When I'm actually sticking to my plan for once and doing something well or even believing in myself quite naturally. Achieving, basically. When I've achieved something I feel great and it always cheers me up. 
*
4) What makes you feel inferior?*
I think I understand this better now. I feel inferior when I compare myself to other people and think that I am not good enough. Sometimes it feels like a dawning realisation that I'm never going to get anywhere in life and that depresses me greatly. That I am stuck in this hole of always wanting but never achieving and that I deserve it because I didn't work hard enough.

*5) What tends to weigh on your decisions? (Do you think about people, pro-cons, how you feel about it, etc.)*
I just do what I feel is right really. What's best for me (in my perspective thgat usually ends up being best for everyone else, if it's not best for me, my misery will effect others). I'm not good at putting others feelings into decisions. I may be aware of them but don't consider them as factors. I use a lot of logic to reason the bases of my decisions. I.e to get from point A to B of course I need to do x, y and z because it makes sense? I do what I know is best, or at least think. Sometimes I don't realise I haven't actually considered everything.

*6) When working on a project what is normally your emphasis? Do you like to have control of the outcome?*
If it's my project surely I have control of the outcome regardless? If I am involved, my input will direct whatever the outcome will be. I try to be responsible, but also inventive but also realisitic. 

*7) Describe us a time where you had a lot of fun. How is your memory of it? *
Although I have fun getting excited about projects and always working towards a new goal, there is no better feeling than actually being one step closer to that goal? Achieving. And that, I don't have to care period between projects. Of course it feels great to have zero stress. 
*
8) When you want to learn something new, what feels more natural for you? (Are you more prone to be hands on, to theorize, to memorize, etc)*
I really think I am inbetween on this. I will always want to do things hands on but I see the importance in theory because that helps me to learn from others and have a head start! If I am going to be good at something, finding out how to do it good first is important, then execute.
*
9) How organized do you to think of yourself as?*
I have to be organized or at least write things down or they amounbt in my head incoherently and I feel stressed. Writing things down allows me relief. I hate having my room all messy, it makes me feel stressed. I like to 'order' things. It gives me peace, everything makes more sense.

*10) How do you judge new ideas? You try to understand the principles behind it to see if they make sense or do you look for information that supports it?*
I try to see it from the perspective its coming from and go from there. I think sometimes the principles seem obvious and make sense so that's okay. I might only look for information that supports it if it seems necessary.

*11) You find harmony by making sure everyone is doing fine and belonging to a given group or by making sure that you follow what you believe and being yourself?*
Follow what I believe and being myself. I have never belonged to a group of people and generally don't fit in.

*12) Are you the kind that thinks before speaking or do you speak before thinking? Do you prefer one-on-one communication or group discussions?*
As I said before, I speak before I think and one-one is more interesting. Group discussions are too all over the place with random perspectives that dont interest me.

*13) Do you jump into action right away or do you like to know where are you jumping before leaping? Does action speaks more than words?*
I can jump right into action, it is possible. I only look before I am jumping when I know it is necessary to do so because I see a risk of something or other. Action speak louder than words is just a silly saying, to be fair. I see no reason why one can't express using both, really.

*14) It's Saturday. You're at home, and your favorite show is about to start. Your friends call you for a night out. What will you do?*
Entirely dependent on situation.
*
15) How do you act when you're stressed out?*
Very irritable and snappy. I can get most depressed when stressed and sometimes anger comes with the confusion of stress. 

*16) What makes you dislike the personalities of some people?*
As I said before, closed minded-ness. Quick to judge and inability to see things as they are and from others perspective. 
*
17) Is there anything you really like talking about with other people?*
Unconventional stuff. I actually said before I don't like talking about impossible theories, that isn't entirely true. Although I lack patience to talk about things I have no interest in or just seem pointless to talk about, I can happily listen to someones theory if it is engaging and they are obviously knowledgable. I have learnt to be more open minded in this way. I like to talk a little deeply at times, it gives you a much more personal communication with people. I express my opinion often and probably too much. I can accidentally offend people.

*18) What kind of things do pay the least attention to in your life?*
Althought I said I don't pay attention to news, it is perhaps not the news itself but more the boring and reptative discussions that stem from such things. I hate talking about what everyone else is talking about and what I've heard a million times over. People need to get out more, in my perspective on that subject. They seem to only see whats put infront of them.


*19) How do your friends perceive you? What is wrong about their perception? ? What would your friends never say about your personality ?*
I think they perceive me as no-nonesense. Can be fun and weird and up for something spontaneous and not the norm. I think they fear me to snap a lot and are cautious around me because I can have a bad temperment when stressed. But I was usually able to control this around my best friend. I don't think my friends would ever call me normal or popular or intentionally horrible.


Okay I apologise if some things end up being a little hypocritical from my previous post. I felt that perhaps having the two versions may help you to compare and understand the real meaning behind the answers rather than just what these answers can appear to be.

I also felt some of the answers from before were slightly inaccurate.


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

Dark Romantic said:


> Well, first off, if you don't believe in cognitive functions, there is very little you and I can discuss, as the entire theory and any attempt at typing is based on them. Second, I read through your list of quotes; none are exclusive to ENTPs, and can in fact apply to several other types (ESTP being the one that came to mind most strongly). Third, even if you DO take it on a purely dichotomic basis, she clearly prefers S over N, and probably F over T, so she's more likely to be an ESFP than an ENTP.


The entire theory is not based on cognitive functions. It is based on the MBTI test. That's the only part that has any empirical support and it is based only on dichotomies. The dynamics is the inferred but has never been proven. This is why most personality psychologists reject the theory. There are of course still combinations of attitude and functions in a purely dichotomous model, but only the ones that have empirical support. And no, I don't think it's clear that she prefers S over N or F over T. Not given the quotes I mentioned before.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> I agree, you cant determine someone's type by organization. But it's a piece of the puzzle. Not all pieces will fit but you will still see what it looks like.


Ok, you just contradicted yourself. So you think that you can't determine someone's type by a generalization, but then, you can if you add more generalizations into the mix? Isn't that neglecting the individual you're typing in favor of some imaginary ideal?


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## Dark Romantic (Dec 27, 2011)

Eighty said:


> Seeing many ideas and possibilites from one idea. Is Se possible of that?


Yes, though Ne and Se do it differently. Se is focused on the here and now; Se users see many possibilities for action in the moment. Ne users, on the other hand, see many possible implications and destinations. Perhaps @JungyesMBTIno will be able to give you a more in-depth description.


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## Jabberbroccoli (Mar 19, 2011)

I filled out the same questionnaire myself, to give a comparison as an ENTP. 
http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/95822-exercise-typology-entp.html

Note the differences...


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Se is all about coming up with possibilities that are directly rooted in what is in front of you (or what you remember being directly in front of you at a relevant time) and these possibilities are all about action in the moment. Ne is the polar opposite - it is typically seen as extremely random in the dominant form, because it has no direct link to anything rooted in current experience at all - these are often the types who will come up with this idea that people can't follow because they don't know where it is coming from and why - there is no clear conscious environmental link between the idea and the time and place. And Ne really doesn't have anything to do with the concrete - it's more about analogies (what something reminds them of via Si and what it could become based on their impressions via Ne) - they tend to be the types who will be talking about things that others who aren't N dominants won't see the connection between the present moment and the topic or idea - it's a fuzzy intuitive impression of what something "seems" like, rather than what it is - the type of people who will talk about how something seems like it might be related to something, but there is no concrete evidence backing this up.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> I filled out the same questionnaire myself, to give a comparison as an ENTP.
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/95822-exercise-typology-entp.html
> 
> Note the differences..



I think that I relate very much to your answers and truely feel I think in a very similar way. But because I have been confused I come across somewhat unconfident in my appearance of my personality. I'm trying to be carefull and unbiased about how I come across, so much that I feel it may have come across too weak in my dominant function?

Just because I am prone to stress at the moment, and sometimes suffer from anger (I take my frustrations out on other people) does not mean it is impossible for me to be Ne dom.

I am sure that my 3w4 quirk to me is what complicates my place, it's not really very common for ESTP nor ENTP.

I am so set on achieving, that is what I strive for. Not achieving makes me feel bad - simply put.

My thought processes are often very problem solving and logical and in varying ways. I am often looking to the future and what idea could lead to another; I do not only operate in the present moment. I care more for the best possible outcome, one that suits the problem directly. Not just because it is new, or different. I don't know if that is just something I have learnt. I am not naturally aware of how I make decisions or come to these conclusions, like you quote in your form @Jabberbroccoli it just makes sense. 

I would certainly appreciate a help concerning the Se dom and Ne dom comparison.


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Jabberbroccoli said:


> I filled out the same questionnaire myself, to give a comparison as an ENTP.
> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/95822-exercise-typology-entp.html
> 
> Note the differences..


Well, yes there are differences, but are they anything really contradictory? Your tone and way of answering on some of these is way different than other ENTPs who have done the same survey.... does that mean that you are not ENTP? Probably not, and it probably doesn't mean that they're all not either. We're different people with similar patterns. I don't think she meant what she tried to get across with some of her answers because the way it is now, something is not quite fitting together. Sometimes it's hard to get across exactly what you mean by yourself on one survey....... like I'd have many different ways of answering these same questions depending on the day. It may help to stick to the essentials of type first before worrying about resembling other ____s on the forum.

To the OP: have you tried indirectly finding your dominant function through the inferior yet? Sometimes it's easier to see that way.... would be easier if I could find the ESxP version of this, but what things of this (if any) resonate for you?

http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-articles/76803-recognizing-inferior-function-enfps.html


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Se is all about coming up with possibilities that are directly rooted in what is in front of you (or what you remember being directly in front of you at a relevant time) and these possibilities are all about action in the moment. Ne is the polar opposite - it is typically seen as extremely random in the dominant form, because it has no direct link to anything rooted in current experience at all - these are often the types who will come up with this idea that people can't follow because they don't know where it is coming from and why - there is no clear conscious environmental link between the idea and the time and place. And Ne really doesn't have anything to do with the concrete - it's more about analogies (what something reminds them of via Si and what it could become based on their impressions via Ne) - they tend to be the types who will be talking about things that others who aren't N dominants won't see the connection between the present moment and the topic or idea - it's a fuzzy intuitive impression of what something "seems" like, rather than what it is - the type of people who will talk about how something seems like it might be related to something, but there is no concrete evidence backing this up.


AH, thank you! I think this solves it for me!

So - would it be safe to say that I cannot be Ne dom when I gain most of my inspirations for new projects or desires from something experienced in the environment, for example I read about set decorating in a book called Harry Potter; Page to Screen and I never knew about that career before, but now I've read about it and learnt more about it, I have made it my desire to work towards that career role. ? 

Another example, I want to make pretty cupcakes because of the pretty cupcake cases in the gift shop ?? Lol, this sounds so rediculous but I'm really trying to get to grips with the Se here.

A Ne user would not need to necessarily experience these ideas in real life? They would come up with wanting them or something else entirely on their own track of thought?


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

Oh, and yes, I really do think it's the 3w4 that is throwing us off so much. It actually is a rather common type for both ExTPs but tends to give any type a little more of a J-vibe than they are, in addition to the overall chameleon effect.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

ElectricSparkle said:


> Well, yes there are differences, but are they anything really contradictory? Your tone and way of answering on some of these is way different than other ENTPs who have done the same survey.... does that mean that you are not ENTP? Probably not, and it probably doesn't mean that they're all not either. We're different people with similar patterns. I don't think she meant what she tried to get across with some of her answers because the way it is now, something is not quite fitting together. Sometimes it's hard to get across exactly what you mean by yourself on one survey....... like I'd have many different ways of answering these same questions depending on the day. It may help to stick to the essentials of type first before worrying about resembling other ____s on the forum.
> 
> To the OP: have you tried indirectly finding your dominant function through the inferior yet? Sometimes it's easier to see that way.... would be easier if I could find the ESxP version of this, but what things of this (if any) resonate for you?
> 
> http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-articles/76803-recognizing-inferior-function-enfps.html


Hmm well I haven't, but I did a cognitive function test to the opposire of what I felt was me and got INFJ, the ESTP shadow type.

Upon reflection that's not really related to what you mean I suppose. I've never really felt at all in touch with Ni, admittedly. Nor am I sure about going about finding my inferior function. :blushed:


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@Eighty

You sound like an Se dom to me - you're very focused on present details - the examples you gave sound like Se - they aren't oddly unconscious/intuitive in origin at all.


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## Arrow (Mar 2, 2012)

Eighty said:


> A Ne user would not need to necessarily experience these ideas in real life? They would come up with wanting them or something else entirely on their own track of thought?


Ne goes from A to M to Z to D to N to B all within seconds virtually. It's untrackable and doesn't really have much of a track. It takes what it sees and then it goes on a tangent to come to something that can be completely different then what is in front of them. Ne is like an explosion of ideas that can reach broadly and connect things that likely would never be connected by typical structures and thought patterns. It's incredibly difficult to monitor or track because it seems very random or spastic. Some comments may be, how did you get that? 

Se is very much in the concrete now. If you are focused on one thing you can have tons of thoughts centered around that thing and in relation to that think but it's primary focus is on what is in front of you and in the now. Ne sees tons of things that are not there. Se sees lots of things that are there.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> @_Eighty_
> 
> You sound like an Se dom to me - you're very focused on present details - the examples you gave sound like Se - they aren't oddly unconscious/intuitive in origin at all.


Thank you. It must be very frustrating to see such an obvious Se dom being so confused with the Ne and for that I apologise.

I don't why I got such a curve ball in what type I am, I think the various stereotypes of ESTPs don't help as I struggle to relate to them. Yet so many people seem to misunderstand the ESTP. I think I must be a very thoughtful one.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

Arrow said:


> Ne goes from A to M to Z to D to N to B all within seconds virtually. It's untrackable and doesn't really have much of a track. It takes what it sees and then it goes on a tangent to come to something that can be completely different then what is in front of them. Ne is like an explosion of ideas that can reach broadly and connect things that likely would never be connected by typical structures and thought patterns. It's incredibly difficult to monitor or track because it seems very random or spastic. Some comments may be, how did you get that?
> 
> Se is very much in the concrete now. If you are focused on one thing you can have tons of thoughts centered around that thing and in relation to that think but it's primary focus is on what is in front of you and in the now. Ne sees tons of things that are not there. Se sees lots of things that are there.


I don't know. Because I am Se dom probably. 

I think i was confusing my logic/reasoning as I find myself planning in to the future and considering many possibilities, but never really appreciating or understanding how far fetched the Ne doms brainstorming goes?

Thanks for explaining it futhur. It's really helping


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## Staffan (Nov 15, 2011)

“Jobs is notoriously difficult to type (for the record, I think he was ENTP, but not everyone shares that assertion). Nevertheless, I mean that if you take a general sample of ENTPs and ask them about how they experience anger, the phrase "long fuse, big bomb" would apply.”

Maybe, maybe not. I don’t think it’s that easy since it’s not a socially desirable trait.

“That's speculation which goes against the data. Neuroticism has very little to do with any MBTI dichotomy, and the one it resembles most superficially is F vs T.”

It is speculation but most discussions here are based largely on our personal experience. It’s not like you actually have that large sample of ENTPs you talked about above. You were speculating. And I don’t think there is data to disconnect Neuroticism completely from MBTI dichotomies. That would mean that ESTPs are every bit as anxious as INFPs. 

“How is keeping your place clean not a sign of organization? If you're looking for _universal_ organization, on the other hand, that would also count against ENTP.”

The way I said it, sometimes a compensation for lack of overall organization.

“I was referring to the bit about guilt, not about wanting your own place. Most people would rather have their own places to live, of course.”

Yeah, that part is not very indicative of ENTP.

“Ti is interested in principles. Any xxTP type will naturally create principles to deal with information.”

I don’t see it in ESTP. Different experiences I guess.

“Not a strawman; if you're going to come to a conclusion, you need to show why you're ruling out other types as well as why you've chosen a specific one. Otherwise, you're picking on faith, not data. Until you present data that suggests ENTP on its own, rather than any other type, it proves nothing.”

I do it buy adding pieces to the puzzle. They may not all be exclusive to ENTP but they all go in that direction and away from the other candidates mentioned here.

“Not necessarily; extraverted percievers in general are constantly on the lookout for environmental data they can use to change their goals and conclusions. As a result, they're all prone to impulsivity and moving on to the next goal before finishing the current one (it's also why so many ExxPs are Type 7 on the Enneagram). I can see your point, but just because one type may have more follow-through relative to another, doesn't mean that their ability to follow through on tasks will be as strong as, say, a TJ type.”

No, but ENTP has less follow through than an ESTP. They are both impulsive but one is more focused on the present and the situation at hand – the sensor.

“It's not a strawman if you do, in fact, require some form of exclusivity to come to a conclusion. If ENTP, ENFP, ESTP, and ESFP were all equally likely, on what basis would you choose one over the other?”

See above.

Besides, I don't see your alternative as very likely. An ESTP who stresses easily and dreams of things to come? Or the low achieving ENTJ who can't finish her projects?


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## electricky (Feb 18, 2011)

@Eighty: well, for the record, you don't seem like an obvious anything to me.... and this whole thread just confuses me even further :laughing: I've always thought of Ne as using the world as a springboard to any sort of something greater, something related, something unrelated, but not something out of nothing..... that seems more like an introverted function. Just because it's hard to backtrack and point to all the specifics that led there sometimes doesn't mean that data wasn't necessary right? I don't mean for you to answer these questions directly... just trying to figure this out for myself. But yes as you said, a key difference is for Se to tend away from the more far-fetched.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

> Another example, I want to make pretty cupcakes because of the pretty cupcake cases in the gift shop ?? Lol, this sounds so rediculous but I'm really trying to get to grips with the Se here.


This sounds especially Se. I mean, if that's the best you could come up for for Ne, well, you're no Ne dom (I seriously can't see the intuition here).


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

ElectricSparkle said:


> @_Eighty_ : well, for the record, you don't seem like an obvious anything to me.... and this whole thread just confuses me even further :laughing: I've always thought of Ne as using the world as a springboard to any sort of something greater, something related, something unrelated, but not something out of nothing..... that seems more like an introverted function. Just because it's hard to backtrack and point to all the specifics that led there sometimes doesn't mean that data wasn't necessary right? I don't mean for you to answer these questions directly... just trying to figure this out for myself. But yes as you said, a key difference is for Se to tend away from the more far-fetched.


Hehe, well I think it seems more obvious now that my excitements and ideas come from a more sensory experience rather than pure thought? Or however one describes Ne?

I must be a very oddball indeed, relating to many functions, but overall I think I agree with everyone afterall, in that Se dom is probably me. This whole experience has been very enlightening and helped to broaden my perspective and knowledge for the functions. I have very much enjoyed getting to know ENTP, ENFP, ESFP, ENTJ and ESTJ. ha! I actually feel a little part of all of them.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> This sounds especially Se. I mean, if that's the best you could come up for for Ne, well, you're no Ne dom (I seriously can't see the intuition here).


Well it wasn't the best I could come up with for Ne  It was more trying to be concrete about what you meant. I think most of my ideas and obsessions, even though I think through them rather a lot and do reflect, stem from sensory experiences and don't go through quite so many possibilities.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

Eighty said:


> Well it wasn't the best I could come up with for Ne  It was more trying to be concrete about what you meant. I think most of my ideas and obsessions, even though I think through them rather a lot and do reflect, stem from sensory experiences and don't go through quite so many possibilities.


Well, my point was, it was good for Se, but bad for Ne.  If you had to be more concrete about what I meant, I'm thinking Se dom for you.


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## Eighty (Apr 6, 2011)

JungyesMBTIno said:


> Well, my point was, it was good for Se, but bad for Ne.  If you had to be more concrete about what I meant, I'm thinking Se dom for you.


Haha. Alright, alright! :tongue: I just wanted confirmation after such confusion


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