# Not your typical 8; Healthy vs Unhealthy or something else



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Okay, as most of you know; Bear, our leading Enneagram expert (atleast in my eyes), typed me as an 8w7. I was already trapped between believing I was an 8w7 or a 7w8.

Now, I've got someone to compare myself too. My father is also an 8w7. He's an ENTJ, Formally thought to be an STP, and I'm starting to doubt Bear's original analysis. Let me give you some examples:

8's are said to be more prone to violent outrage. I admit I've been through this, but not like my father. I don't explode. Where as I'm more likely to stab you while smiling. He's more likely to be the guy that rawrs while wildly throwing punches.

8's get angry easy. I don't get angry easy. I get annoyed easily, but not angry. My father on the other hand has that tendency to snap crackle and pop. This is one of the more serious points that makes me think about my type. He gets angry at some of the stupidest things, and while he's being angry I'm sitting back going. "If I was in the seat I'd have rationalized. Came up with a proper response/vengeance, and than responded in term with a cool head. Those who loss their head lose." He reacts to my sisters irrational behavior with irrational behavior of his own. The other dead I couldn't eat for an hour because he was throwing a temper tantrum because my sister was throwing a temper tantrum. I called his ass out on it too. Every 5 minutes I'd tell him that they were overreacting.

8's like to control to not be controlled. I hate to be controlled. I give you that, and everyone likes to control just a bit, but not like that. I hate to be that much in control unless its of myself. I'm the only person I like to control. I tell everyone else to do whatever they want. Sure if I need something I'll try to manipulate and control their actions, but that is only if I don't believe I can get it on my own or I really really want something they have.

ENTP - 8w7 SX/SO
ENTJ - 8w7 SX/SP


----------



## starri (Jan 23, 2009)

I'm pretty sure you aren't an 8.

7w8 seems more fitting. I had some doubt about you being 7w6-counterphobe. 

I recommend the descriptions on this site:

Sevens - the enneagram ...info from the underground

Btw, Neph also thought he was 8 for a time. I think 8 is a common mistype.


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Thank you miss *alizée* 

*Twirling hand bow*

If anyone would like to ask me questions. Any questions. I will answer them all. I like asking and answering questions.


----------



## Antagonist (Mar 27, 2009)

Who is the fourteenth person in line of succession to the presidency? Name and title, please.


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

What does transportation have to do with this?


----------



## DayLightSun (Oct 30, 2008)

I agree with you I don't like to be in full control.
I like to get others input. 
I do ask others that have more experience then I do. 
And I don't get mad, I do get annoyed. People who do get mad are annoying.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

alizée said:


> I'm pretty sure you aren't an 8.
> 
> 7w8 seems more fitting. I had some doubt about you being 7w6-counterphobe.
> 
> ...


If I gather correctly, you also think Treebob is an 8.... I have my doubts about that typing...


----------



## DayLightSun (Oct 30, 2008)

Bear said:


> If I gather correctly, you also think Treebob is an 8.... I have my doubts about that typing...


U thought I was an eight! 
Geez not every one you like can be an 8 bear.:crazy:


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Bear said:


> If I gather correctly, you also think Treebob is an 8.... I have my doubts about that typing...


Until you prove me otherwise I am 8. I seem more 8 then Wolf here.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

Evolyptic said:


> Okay, as most of you know; Bear, our leading Enneagram expert (atleast in my eyes), typed me as an 8w7. I was already trapped between believing I was an 8w7 or a 7w8.
> 
> Now, I've got someone to compare myself too. My father is also an 8w7. He's an ENTJ, Formally thought to be an STP, and I'm starting to doubt Bear's original analysis. Let me give you some examples:
> 
> ...


Your dad does not sound like an 8 to me at all... he sounds very reactive. He looses his cool over silly stuff. An 8 doesnt do that. And an 8s anger most certainly would not be described by anyone as a "tantrum".

8 is anger + inertness. It's there... you get irritated at all manner of of little things... but then it's quickly gone, and it didnt mean a thing... You really didnt care. Responding with a cool head despite the anger is kind of the point. Letting little things affect you is weak... and should feel weak.

Evo, you know what you are... the problem here is everyone else sees someone get all angry and pissy and assertive about it and think that is what an 8 is. Because it's scary, and aggressive.

That is not 8. I get what you're asking here... you're not doubting you... you're wondering if you have the right number, and I'm sure this is just a number to you. As Nyx said, Neph... who touts himself as an educated psychologist thought he was an 8. 

I think the problem is that 8 is a rather uncommon type, especially around personalty boards... but aggressiveness and assertiveness are not as uncommon... many types possess these traits to one degree or another. So people see them... and they stick a label on it.

The profiles don't really address things like anger... or how assertive 2s, 6s, 3s, and 7s can be. So instantly they think... oh... that's 8. Even type 5s get extra aggressive and argumentative more often online.

To others.... if your basic understanding of the enneagram is based on what the test questions attribute: assertive/aggressive = 8. Loyal = 6.... you should not be typing anybody.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

TreeBob said:


> Until you prove me otherwise I am 8. I seem more 8 then Wolf here.


You can be whatever you feel like you seem to be. You dont need proof from me to be who you are.... whatever number I or you or anyone else assigns to you... you're still the same person.


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Bear said:


> You can be whatever you feel like you seem to be. You dont need proof from me to be who you are.... whatever number I or you or anyone else assigns to you... you're still the same person.


I realize that and i am happy with picking the 8. I took your advice and didn't use the test results. I looked over all the type descriptions and I just fit best there. I like the 8W9 as well.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

TreeBob said:


> I realize that and i am happy with picking the 8. I took your advice and didn't use the test results. I looked over all the type descriptions and I just fit best there. I like the 8W9 as well.


Oh well good. I guess that means we can be best buds now. :happy:


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Bear said:


> Oh well good. I guess that means we can be best buds now. :happy:


Oh is that where you landed? I find it difficult to like TO fans but I will try and make an exception.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

TreeBob said:


> Oh is that where you landed? I find it difficult to like TO fans but I will try and make an exception.


I'm not a Leafs fan. And no, that is not where I landed. I was messing with you... and you don't feel much like an 8 to me at all.


I'm sure you're catching this Evo...


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Bear said:


> I'm not a Leafs fan. And no, that is not where I landed. I was messing with you... and you don't feel much like an 8 to me at all.
> 
> 
> I'm sure you're catching this Evo...


Well i am waiting for you to tell me where you think I should be so I can actual defend my point of view or agree with yours. If you think I am not an 8 it means you think I am something else.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

TreeBob said:


> Well i am waiting for you to tell me where you think I should be so I can actual defend my point of view or agree with yours. If you think I am not an 8 it means you think I am something else.


I have not paid that much attention to your posts. I've seen enough, especially here to be able to rule 8 out for you entirely. 

Just the idea of waiting for me to tell you what type you are... so you know how to argue your point is wrong.

You obviously are assertive, and you seem to have some stones. There are plenty of types out there than can be/are tough and assertive. First you're just way to happy about your type. It's like Woohoooo yeah baby! I'm an 8!. That doesn't fit. Then it is the idea of "seeming to be more 8" than someone else. I do not validate my 8ness off how 8ish I seem compared to you, or anyone else. Comparing yourself to Evo to justify yourself is weak. You're making Evo the standard, and claiming you surpass it. It feels like you're trying to win a prize. Your response to me was a lot like Nephs was when he was challenged on being an 8. I think he said "substantiate or GTFO." He's settled on thinking he's a 6. Which is fine, his type doesnt matter to me, but I still think he is 5w6. 

Your type doesnt matter to me either. You can call yourself whatever you like. But if you're interested in finding out, check with McGooggles and see how he vibes to you. If you find 7w8 doesnt seem to fit, get back with me and we can discuss 6w5. Dont worry about what the profiles say about 6. Those profiles are old, and they are crap. They make it sound like 6s can't do anything without being afraid, having someone hold their hand, or run and grab a cop. That might be the case with some 6s, but falls short of reality with 6s in general.

That being said my gut read of the short amount of your material that I've read of yours is that you're probably an extra aggressive flavor of 7w8. Start there, if you have any questions feel free to ask.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

I just read this:

http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...you-proud-your-enneagram-type.html#post102387

7w8s and 8w7s feel less shame than any other types. 7s in general are the types that are the most comfortable with themselves and their own capabilities. 7s in general often over estimate their own abilities, and are often surprised when they find themselves unable to do something.

I watched McGoogles with almost no prior enneagram experience drop into a conversation about it and just chat away like he'd be studying it for years.

The more I see from you, the more I see 6w5. I've seen other sixes talk about not being comfortable about something until they get more answers. I think that more than anything is what the 6w5 is about... not being able to be comfortable until they get answers. I think some 6s experience anxiety when they are forced to deal with a situation in which they do not have enough answers, and no one is around to help them. When they have the answers they seek, the anxiety fades and they're free to be more aggressive with their surroundings.


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

"I get what you're asking here... you're not doubting you... you're wondering if you have the right number, and I'm sure this is just a number to you."

Exactly. It's probably me trying to challenge. I guess it's a love hate thing. I love it as a tool because someone can say "I don't get you" and I can go "Well, look at this it will help you understand just a little", and that is the same reason I hate it because even though I want it as the tool for me people who don't understand me. I hate the thought of me being summed up by a number. I don't doubt myself. I doubt the tool.

Me or Tree? I agree that I don't see Tree as an 8wX. At all, and as I've pointed out I'm not a good prime example of a normal 8.

If you were talking about me being a 6w5 than that'd be wrong. I seek answers, yes, but I don't have anxiety until I find the answer. I seek answers for the knowledge not because they make me feel secure, but I'm sure you're talking about Tree.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

I think the stuff about me that matters most isn't in any profile you find online. They all seem so incomplete or wrong anyway. I've also seen a old white-haired doctor of psychology for 2 years, he admitted to me that he had a hard time reading me... and ultimately wasn't sure he had read me right at all... and I wasn't even trying to make it difficult for him.

There is enough information out there to give people a general idea of what they are dealing with... but I don't worry about anyone figuring out enough to get a handle on me. And really though I am still learning some of the finer ins and outs in these personality systems, I've gotten to where I can size some people and know what makes them tick inside just a few minutes of meeting them.


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

I am most definitely not a 6w5. There is not one part of it that is me. I have no anxiety at all by the way. I have a slight curiosity for Enneagram but that's it. I am really happy that you hold McGoogle up there with the elite Enneagramists in the world, bu I fail to see why he is relavent. To be a certain number I have to be confident in the whole system? I lack the drive to make myself knowledgeable in this field. Knowing what number I am won't be near as exciting as was finding out my MBTI type. 

I agree with many aspects of 7 and 8 and disagree with some in both. I am not a thrill seeker and I am not overly aggressive. I have balls and I state my opinion. Unlike many on this forum I can do it in a post and to your face. I find the fact that you are typing me based on these few posts rather entertaining, especially when you readily admit not reading much of my stuff. I thought by posting awhile back I would have a pleasant discussion with knowledgeable people. All I got was an pushy egomaniac who doesn't want me in his club. 

Until such time as I wish to open the discussion again, I am 8w7. You don't have to agree and I know as you mentioned you don't really care, so I will leave it at that.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

It's not a personal attack, and you can call yourself whatever you wish. It doesnt change who you are, or what an 8 is or isnt. This thread wasnt for you anyway.


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Bear said:


> It's not a personal attack, and you can call yourself whatever you wish. It doesnt change who you are, or what an 8 is or isnt. This thread wasnt for you anyway.


true it wasn't but you brought me into to it by mentioning me


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

DayLightSun said:


> U thought I was an eight!
> Geez not every one you like can be an 8 bear.:crazy:


Oh... sorry I missed this post. Wasn't ignoring it. 

I never thought you were an 8. We had a discussion much like the one Treebob and I had here... where I said you were not... and you found out later I was correct.


Glad to see you're back and posting a bit more. Seems like your happy with your INTP, good deal. He's a decent looking fellow.


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Bear said:


> Oh... sorry I missed this post. Wasn't ignoring it.
> 
> I never thought you were an 8. We had a discussion much like the one Treebob and I had here... where I said you were not... and you found out later I was correct.
> 
> ...


well look at you assuming you are still correct about me.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

TreeBob said:


> well look at you assuming you are still correct about me.


You got a point?


----------



## Trope (Oct 18, 2008)




----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

This thread has broke down into a catfight

*Does hand motion* Meeeoowww


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

Alot of times this sort of stuff gets backed off of, or avoided because it's conflict and anger. Which is unfortunate because sometimes anger and reactivity on things like this make great lines of distinction between types. Bottom line here Treebob is that your behavior is simply not 8. No amount of angry ranting, or aggressive posting changes that. I'm not going to suddenly change my mind and go "You know... you're pretty gosh darn assertive... put 'er there brother." There is no club.

I'm not riled up... and I'm not looking to antagonize the guy... I really have nothing against him. That being said... Trope, I leave it to your discretion with regards to locking the thread.

Treebob, I hope we can avoid that and get passed this... if you don't wish to discuss your type fine. I'm OK with that. You have to accept the fact that you haven't changed my mind. Tossing little comments at me is childish and will not get us anywhere.


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Aww, no more arguing? and this thread was getting fun. I agree with him Tree. You're not an 8. I don't think you're a 6w5 either though. I see 7w8 more so.


----------



## TreeBob (Oct 11, 2008)

Bear said:


> Alot of times this sort of stuff gets backed off of, or avoided because it's conflict and anger. Which is unfortunate because sometimes anger and reactivity on things like this make great lines of distinction between types. Bottom line here Treebob is that your behavior is simply not 8. No amount of angry ranting, or aggressive posting changes that. I'm not going to suddenly change my mind and go "You know... you're pretty gosh darn assertive... put 'er there brother." There is no club.
> 
> I'm not riled up... and I'm not looking to antagonize the guy... I really have nothing against him. That being said... Trope, I leave it to your discretion with regards to locking the thread.
> 
> Treebob, I hope we can avoid that and get passed this... if you don't wish to discuss your type fine. I'm OK with that. You have to accept the fact that you haven't changed my mind. Tossing little comments at me is childish and will not get us anywhere.


ok this is my last one. Only cause you seem to keep calling me back in. I am not angry I just think you are wrong so far. I mean come on you typed me 6w5? What the hell is that? My type is beside the point. 

You just accused me of tossing in comments and being childish. You brought me into this conversation for no reason what so ever other than to point out you didn't believe me to be an 8. I commented in the other thread about being proud not this one. I am sure your not riled up but yes you are trying to antagonize me, that's what trolls do after all. Each time I stop talking and I think it is over you bring it back. Like your off hand comment to DayLightSun about me. So who's being childish here?


----------



## BehindSmile (Feb 4, 2009)

what would I be? I don't think I've ever heard of the enneagram.


----------



## starri (Jan 23, 2009)

Bear said:


> The more I see from you, the more I see 6w5. I've seen other sixes talk about not being comfortable about something until they get more answers. I think that more than anything is what the 6w5 is about... not being able to be comfortable until they get answers. I think some 6s experience anxiety when they are forced to deal with a situation in which they do not have enough answers, and no one is around to help them. When they have the answers they seek, the anxiety fades and they're free to be more aggressive with their surroundings.


Your description here completely alienates me from the 6. This is probably very 6w5 or 5w6. I'm sure 6 as an enneagram is not about answers or aggressiveness. Anyhow I have my doubts still of my own typing so I won't take myself as a comparison. 

As for Wolf I typed him not to be an 8 because upclose in my dealings with him he has displayed very 6 like behaviour [if you know what I mean] I can't really disclose of these things because I want to protect his privacy. Now I don't personally know any 8s upclose [or maybe I do but I didn't type them as so] so maybe all 8s are comfortable letting their "6" traits loose with people they are comfortably acquainted with. 

I didn't make the decision of him not being an 8 from the OP. Actually I didn't even take the time to read it carefully but when I did;



Evolyptic said:


> *Now, I've got someone to compare myself too*. My father is also an 8w7. He's an ENTJ, Formally thought to be an STP, and I'm starting to doubt Bear's original analysis. Let me give you some examples:
> 
> He gets angry at some of the stupidest things, and while he's being angry I'm sitting back going. "If I was in the seat I'd have rationalized. Came up with a proper response/vengeance, and than responded in term with a cool head. Those who loss their head lose."
> 
> 8's like to control to not be controlled. I hate to be controlled. *I give you that, and everyone likes to control just a bit, but not like that. I hate to be that much in control unless its of myself. I'm the only person I like to control. I tell everyone else to do whatever they want. *Sure if I need something I'll try to manipulate and control their actions, but that is only if I don't believe I can get it on my own or I really really want something they have.


You see here is comparing himself to his father. A behaviour you said an 8 is not so notorious for. And may I ask if this typing of his father was through a test or mere guessing like the STP guess?

The other point is that he simply is not angry at his father's reasons for anger. I don't see him describing his own anger and how he deals with it. I can totally rationalize a right course of action to take when everybody else is angry while being unaware of how irrational I am in my own anger.

My 3rd point is that my understanding of type 8 is that the control is also to circumstances and to life. They want to challenge the whole existence and to either be on top of the system or deny it altogether. Now when you say that you will find 8s on the top of the pyramid, it means that this 8 has found the necessary course of action to take to be on top. Sometimes the best way forward is not rock the boat -- a saying by an 8 i know. So what I'm trying to say is that not anyone who lashes out or refuses to be touched is an 8, it is more someone who is smart enough to be diplomatic enough or whatever it takes to reach the ultimate goal. Now for me I would rather eat grovel at my own will rather than have a cake forced upon me, but I know that doesn't make me an 8. Correct me if I am wrong.

You seem content on typing most bullies [like sooner] to be 8s. With that understanding 8s should be avoided like a plague, as they are showing the extreme 6 unhealthy behavior in private and showing extreme aggressiveness in public. But the real scenario is that the two people I know to be 8w9s [you and Scipio] are much different. Maybe the wing makes all the difference? I wouldn't know.

Those are all my thoughts presented, I apologize if they are unorganized and random, it's because I haven't drawn any conclusions from them yet -- I just threw it all out there. Now I initially ventured into this thread with my thoughts because I thought Wolf was asking for help about his type. I thought he was a 7 because I have seen how he gets involved in things merely to fill gaps. Again could be his wing. But since -as you pointed out- it's a challenge or test or whatever I really don't wish to take a part of it anymore. 


Finally,

*I would appreciate if this thread got more civil, there is no need to probe or challenge people with anger-testing tactics. I'm asking nicely.*


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

There is another site I've got this on, and currently I'm believed to be a 7wcp6 sw8w7 triple aggressive by most of the members, and only one of the members disagrees and they typed me as a 3w4.

They say with my sidewing being 8w7 and me being triple aggressive that is why I rarely show negative traits of my 6 wing and more of the negative traits of my 7 main. Like 6 wings normally being better secret keepers, not willing to rock the boot, liking more structured environments, having more fears, etc etc. While 7's being more selfish, liking to create a more wildish environment, easy boredom.

*Replying to big paragraph above*


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

alizée said:


> As for Wolf I typed him not to be an 8 because upclose in my dealings with him he has displayed very 6 like behaviour.
> 
> *What six like behavior? If you could explain without it resulting in us getting in an argument. I think if you're referring to what I think you're referring to than I should pm you something, because I actually did do that out of boredom. After 'someone' told me you were talking bad about me and that I should do something about it. I told them I would play along and than it became a game to me, and we all know how that ended up.
> 
> ...


and done......................


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

BehindSmile said:


> what would I be? I don't think I've ever heard of the enneagram.


Start up a thread in the enneagram section.

Take a look at some of the material on the different types, profiles and such. You can say whatever you like in your thread, but it might help if you post what types you think you are, and what types you think you're not and why.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

alizée said:


> Your description here completely alienates me from the 6. This is probably very 6w5 or 5w6. I'm sure 6 as an enneagram is not about answers or aggressiveness. Anyhow I have my doubts still of my own typing so I won't take myself as a comparison.


6w5 and 6w7 are different. 6w5s can be tough/aggressive. Chuck Norris is 6w5. 
6w7s tend to be more go with the flow. Everyone's best friend.


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Chuck Norris is horribly overrated. Bruce Lee.

Anyways, my topic seems to be getting offtrack and I guess I'm not helping with the above comment.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

Evolyptic said:


> There is another site I've got this on, and currently I'm believed to be a 7wcp6 sw8w7 triple aggressive by most of the members, and only one of the members disagrees and they typed me as a 3w4.
> 
> They say with my sidewing being 8w7 and me being triple aggressive that is why I rarely show negative traits of my 6 wing and more of the negative traits of my 7 main. Like 6 wings normally being better secret keepers, not willing to rock the boot, liking more structured environments, having more fears, etc etc. While 7's being more selfish, liking to create a more wildish environment, easy boredom.
> 
> *Replying to big paragraph above*


Triple aggressive just means out of a certain number of possible combinations you hit an aggressive personality type 3 times. People like you usually do Spec Ops or something similar.

The guys there are probably right. Every since you started doubting your type I've noticed some things in your postings that didnt quite make sense. As I mentioned before I thought it really odd that you started a thread asking for my advice on your type. And then this thread here... Also the way lately you've been subtly comparing you and I. 

I thought maybe you were just screwing around.


----------



## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

Evolyptic said:


> Chuck Norris is horribly overrated. Bruce Lee.
> 
> Anyways, my topic seems to be getting offtrack and I guess I'm not helping with the above comment.


I'm not a chuck norris fan. Never liked his movies and always thought there was something fake about him. Like there was something about him that just didn't quite match up.


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Bear said:


> Triple aggressive just means out of a certain number of possible combinations you hit an aggressive personality type 3 times. People like you usually do Spec Ops or something similar.
> 
> The guys there are probably right. Every since you started doubting your type I've noticed some things in your postings that didnt quite make sense. As I mentioned before I thought it really odd that you started a thread asking for my advice on your type. And then this thread here... Also the way lately you've been subtly comparing you and I.
> 
> I thought maybe you were just screwing around.


Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. I haven't been comparing us at all. I don't know where you got that from. My other thread was actually for information on Alexander the great because I still refuse to believe that MBTI and Enneagram can't match up, and was wondering if the ENTP Alexander was a 3 like people were saying or an 7/8 like I believed.

This thread is legit though. I was going through life, and than bam it hit me after dad threw one of his tantrums after he took his tests.


----------



## εmptε (Nov 20, 2008)

Currently this is looking like another theory I'm going to have to learn so I can type myself because no one seems to be able to agree on my type, but I love that <3.

Thus I'll do what I did for MBTI I'll cram all the knowledge I can find on the subject into my head. Though my original ENTP guess for MBTI was super correct, but its starting to look like MBTI is a super easy personality theory. Thus I feel challenged to push myself into learning this new one. Plus the fact I gain knowledge & learn something new helps, ..... a lot.

I guess the problem I have with Enneagram bear is the same problem I had when I first started MBTI. It combines two of my things. My lose of uniqueness, and my lose of freedom. Freedom is lost when others try to type me. I can't hold their word as high as I would hold my own. Its the most important thing to me, my freedom. Second my own uniqueness. I want to use this as a tool, but at the same time I don't want it to be able to sum me up like I'm some number in a book.


----------

