# Type that is the HARDEST on THEMSELVES



## LittleOrange (Feb 11, 2012)

I think ISFJs


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## datMBTIguy (Oct 31, 2012)

INFP or ISTJ type 1s


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## kfarb (Jan 22, 2013)

INFPs for sure... 4w5s in particular are very hard on themselves.


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## Devalight (May 27, 2012)

ISTJ and throw in 5w4 and you have a recipe for some kind of otherworldly standard in the mental realm that can never be met (perfectionism). Throw in a fundamentalist church upbringing and a hopeless feeling of never being good enough takes root in a very deep way. 

I have overcome much of it, but it sure hasn't been easy.


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## Felidire (Jan 12, 2013)

kfarb said:


> INFPs for sure... 4w5s in particular are very hard on themselves.


I'm something between an INFP/INFJ, 4w5 (or 5w4), and I can honestly say that i'm _incredibly_ hard on myself. Perhaps my 'standards' _are_ unrealistic, but they don't feel that way to me at all. =P

I deny myself praise in almost every form (unless I feel that I genuinely deserve it, which is rare-but-not). When another person pays me a compliment, I normally disregard it entirely and choose to let it go over the top of my head. In most cases I won't even thank you for paying me a compliment, because i'm genuinely _not _thankful (although I do appreciate the show of courtesy.)

I don't think I can express it better than what I already have written on my art profile,
(copy/paste): "Don't compliment me. Please. Kick me in the ass and tell me to try harder!"


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## Narrator (Oct 11, 2009)

All in Twilight said:


> I don't think you have absorbed the knowledge of the enneagram and I am not going to spell it out. You are here since 2009 and this is all the info you have gathered about enneagram? It's none of my business why you haven't taken the liberty to study the enneagram but you're making something my problem that isn't my problem. There are plenty of examples to be found here in the enneagram sub forum. You made a "strange" claim in your first post without backing it up.



What even? Why all the aggression? And assumptions much? I didn't mean to offend you in any way, if that's what you're feeling, I just wanted some clarification, I wasn't expecting or demanding that you would necessarily give it.

I spent several years in the past getting to know the enneagram, and then, not because I thought it was a bad personality typing system, but because I was interested, I moved my focus onto the MBTI. Moreover stuff happened in my life, and the enneagram wasn't top of my list of things to concentrate on. So my knowledge is rather rusty. Also when I joined this forum, people were taking (and I believe to an extent still take) the enneagram in the same way they take the MBTI - I don't know if you're doing that here, thus a small part of my feeling the type titles were too vague. Nothing personal, I just don't know where people are coming from straight away, but it's not an issue if I don't find out, I'll just state my case and see if I get a response. 
The approach of taking it like the MBTI didn't feel right to me, so I sort of stayed out of those sections mostly. It's subtle to explain, but in how they take test results and character descriptions rather literally I think. 
It's not like I use even half the forum itself anyway. I like to spend a few years at a time focusing on one thing, it's just how I work.

That said, I think just using the name of the type is vague, pure and simple, whether because types don't always share behaviour, or because there are so many behaviours which could be shared, and I'd always rather hear the person's personal description, to avoid assumptions, and because it's interesting.

Second, you're pissed I haven't taken the liberty to read up on the enneagram? Not that I don't care to survey the whole of a forum because I'm lazy - I heartily approve of understanding new things,- but in what world do we have to use a forum in the same way? If we all did the same thing life would be dead boring. Like I said, I don't even use half of the whole forum, not even a tenth I'd wager. I read up on what I'm interested in, contribute when I feel like it, to what I feel like.

And finally what problem? If you don't want to elaborate, or respond, fine, no big deal, as I said, it's fine if you don't want to give examples (and in that I'm inferring a response isn't necessary if you don't want to). I (don't know what word I meant to put here, so I'll put these twodon't know your specific problems - which you expressed would scare some onlookers. Contrastingly, you've also said your standards arn't unrealistic, which makes it all the more ambiguous.

You responded to my strange request rather surely and directly at first, if you had a problem with it, tell me at the time, don't bring it in later to further an argument about my inadequacy if you actually want me to clear it up.

All that said, we're in a topic on MBTI types, and not exactly on an enneagram centric forum...While the enneagram is relevant here, you can't be assuming everyone is going to bring the same knowledge to the feild, and get angry at them if they don't.


Ahh, I've just seen you joined in October of last year, this may explain why you feel this way about my not learning of enneagram. When I joined, the enneagram was talked of like a 'vague' untrustworthy psuedo-science, and I came from a really pretty great enneagram forum (and felt, and still feel that it's a better system than the MBTI, helped in part by the lack of grouping together of superior types and creationg of 'other's who are strange and bad and different and thus wrong), at least one I gelled in. I came here for the MBTI, and there was no enneagram forum established then if I remember rightly, when it did arrive, it was largely information from sources I'd already read, couldn't be bothered to re read, so never refreshed, and most of them the more mediochre ones. By the time it got good, I'd invested lots of energy in the MBTI (moving through many different types, the enneagram was much easier to pin down in some ways; I was learning a whole new method), and I was moving more on to the stages of feeling tired with the stupid amounts of elitism and typism on the boards, and also had started at uni, so more time was taken up by work and suchlike.


I just realised this is very offtopic guys, sorry, I'll take any more unrelated responses to PM.


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

I am likely either a Fi or Si dom. I generally have a defeatist outlook on my own capabilities, in the sense that "I can't do anything right. Fuck everything" and I go into self-indulgent self pity for that reason. This is only really pointed towards myself, because I find that I have relatively realistic expectations of everyone else. Not that I push myself in the slightest. In that sense, I am a quitter. "There is no point in doing anything, because I can't do it right." is likely the reason why I give up a lot...and laziness.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

Liminality said:


> What even? Why all the aggression? And assumptions much? I didn't mean to offend you in any way, if that's what you're feeling, I just wanted some clarification, I wasn't expecting or demanding that you would necessarily give it.
> 
> I spent several years in the past getting to know the enneagram, and then, not because I thought it was a bad personality typing system, but because I was interested, I moved my focus onto the MBTI. Moreover stuff happened in my life, and the enneagram wasn't top of my list of things to concentrate on. So my knowledge is rather rusty. Also when I joined this forum, people were taking (and I believe to an extent still take) the enneagram in the same way they take the MBTI - I don't know if you're doing that here, thus a small part of my feeling the type titles were too vague. Nothing personal, I just don't know where people are coming from straight away, but it's not an issue if I don't find out, I'll just state my case and see if I get a response.
> The approach of taking it like the MBTI didn't feel right to me, so I sort of stayed out of those sections mostly. It's subtle to explain, but in how they take test results and character descriptions rather literally I think.
> ...


Take it easy. I never meant to be aggressive but I was dry and not interested. 

My assumption was based on the fact that you are a sp/sx 6w7 *perhaps*. After spending so many years here, I drew the conclusion that you weren't interested in enneagram and I didn't feel like explaining it to you because there is plenty of info to be found here alone. 

If I wanted to be aggressive, I would have called you lazy and I would have taken a stab at you by telling you how foolish it is to identify yourself with an enneagram type you are not even sure of so how well do you really know yourself? Yes, I know I am being aggressive right now but I am only doing so in order for you to see how much I have spared you so far.

Type 1 is called the perfectionist. I don't think I need to say more. So when you came up with "a good person" I knew that you didn't take my request seriously. Every type wants to be a good person→ in their own way. So forgive me my total lack of interest in my previous post. You have wasted 30 minutes of my time today by trying to prove something that is pointless. My response to your initial statement was something that you could have figured out by yourself alone. Maybe I expect too much of people sometimes. 

On top of that, I am a very private person even though I do not always come off like that. Maybe I should have hinted this out to you in a more effective way. And I am having the flu right now and I lack the energy to spell everything out.

Here is your example and extrapolate on this example. Don't get shaken by my bitchy comment.

This is as good as perfect. I know the guitarist personally so I know what I am talking about. I am one myself but I am sure you have already noticed this.







He, the person below, is a total disgrace. How can he be satisfied with this result? I don't understand. Why isn't he working harder? Is he lazy? Youtube is filled with crap like that. I need to stop talking because I am about to lose it and that was exactly what I was trying to prevent in the first place.


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## bluefizzure (May 9, 2010)

I have been very hard on myself my whole life. I have tried to not be, to not constantly strive to be perfect, but it doesn't happen. I am ISTJ and 5w6.


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## Boy Wonder (Jan 24, 2013)

I could argue that the *elusive *depressed entp is hardest on themselves. But i will save myself the self-loathing! HO!


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## Nightshade (Dec 4, 2012)

I'm an INFP who's a 5w4 and I'm pretty hard on myself. I'm a perfectionist and very self-critical, which leads me to abandoning a lot of projects. However, I'm trying to change my out look.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Nightshade said:


> I'm an INFP who's a 5w4 and I'm pretty hard on myself. I'm a perfectionist and very self-critical, which leads me to abandoning a lot of projects. However, I'm trying to change my out look.


lol yeah an INFP 5w4. That must be hell, especially since you are motivated to minimize feeling to handle situations, when it's pretty much your dome. One huge contradiction.


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## xraydav (Jan 3, 2013)

Boy Wonder said:


> I could argue that the *elusive *depressed entp is hardest on themselves. But i will save myself the self-loathing! HO!


lol. yeah I guess the type with lower self esteem is hardest on themselves, and even some ENTPs can have low self esteem.

The ENTPs I've met have always been a bit too flighty or upfront with their low self-esteem(if any). It's when it concealed and you're alone that you start to target yourself. Like just before you sleep for example, you go "oh remember that one time I did that thing! ... damn" . Introverts are much more prone to this, I'd say.


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## Boy Wonder (Jan 24, 2013)

Yea, thats what I experience. I am fine when i have shit to do, but sometimes when I'm alone, bored, or in bed, the negative thinking begins!


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## owlet (May 7, 2010)

I don't actually think it has much to do with type. You could argue any type would be hard on themselves if they didn't do what was important to them (that's poor phrasing, but I can't think of how else to put it). Basically, an Fi dominant user might be hard on themselves about being true to what they believe they are, whereas a Te dominant user might be hard on themselves about a system they've made/used in a certain way. The same goes for Fe and Ti users with their respective focuses. In fact, it goes for all the Enneagram types too, as each have a 'fixation' they want to achieve and could be hard on themselves over not achieving it. (I'm baffled by the type 1's name as The Perfectionist as it makes no sense - any type can be a perfectionist, any type can want to strive to achieve more. A good example would be a type 3, which would want to achieve success - but their definition of success could be becoming incredibly famous, which is very difficult and improbable.)

I think it's more likely to do with upbringing and being influenced by someone or something that inspires a strong work-ethic the person wishes to emulate in a way. They're more likely to push themselves harder if they have positive role-models/influences around them to inspire them to be more than they are (these might even be just a character in a book, or someone they read about in a newspaper - depends on what they find inspiring).


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## heavydirtysoul (Jan 13, 2012)

I am going to say ESTJ.
Though, as an ENFJ, I am pretty hard on myself too.


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## Aerorobyn (Nov 11, 2009)

Me.  

I was going to vote Enneagram type 1s, but since this is the MBTI subforum, I will refrain from that. Its been said enough, but I will go ahead and say that I believe Judging types to be at the top of the list, specifically those with Te as a dominant or auxiliary function.


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## katiki (Feb 21, 2013)

I don't think this question can ever really be answered satisfactorily. Ever different type has it's own set of standards, so anybody can be hard on themselves if they feel they've not met those standards.


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## All in Twilight (Oct 12, 2012)

Aerorobyn said:


> Me.
> 
> I was going to vote Enneagram type 1s, but since this is the MBTI subforum, I will refrain from that. Its been said enough, but I will go ahead and say that I believe Judging types to be at the top of the list, specifically those with Te as a dominant or auxiliary function.


I've already tried to explain that this is enneagram related. Type 1 it is. So probably INTJ, ISTJ or ISTJ since type 1 is well represented among those types.


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## AdamDG (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm not sure personality types can determine this, but I'm an ISTJ and I'm pretty hard on myself, and so is my INFJ sister, but my INFP brother seems to be the opposite.


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## Groovy (Jan 4, 2015)

ArmchairCommie said:


> INFJ and INTJ: These two types are very much perfectionist thinkers and whenever they are unable to translate their *Ni vision into the world perfectly they will often blame themselves for not working up to their ideals.* INFJs are especially hard on themselves as their Fe auxiliary causes them to care deeply for others and when this feeling is not reciprocated they will be blame themselves.





Quernus said:


> I cannot even imagine though, how disorienting it _might _be, to navigate this world with Ni and then Fe. Personally I find those functions difficult to reconcile --- the particular way Ni perceives and picks up on things, and then the way Fe tries to maintain interpersonal harmony despite all the *absurdity that humans create.* It seems like a lot of INFJs are often trying to bridge that gap, by being excelling in areas that might be validated by society. Most INFJs I know seem to struggle with a sense of "this isn't quite right", referring to what's going on around them, yet they don't want to lose .... whatever Fe does.


You guys just summed it up. Thank you


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