# Some kind of NT. Am I ENTP?



## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

*2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
*
A: What's wrong with the vehicle, and how can I fix it? Can we fix it in time? I'd react with frustration, but I'd push to the front of the group and show my determination to fix the vehicle.

*3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do?
*
A: I'm cool with it. I'm slightly excited because I have a chance for interactions with new, INTERESTING people, but also cynical because I usually don't find the people I want, and even if I do find them, I'm relatively shy. I'll try going to the after party, and if I don't like it, I can just find a quiet spot to be alone. I like quietly exploring unfamiliar streets anyway.

*4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say?
*
I try to tactfully deny his/her claim, and ask for justification to this claim. When the claim is unfounded yet he/she continues to believe it AND force it down my throat, my inward reaction is anger. Most of the time, I'll let it go if I get the feeling that the person will not change for logic's sake, because it's better to ignore the situation that involve myself.

*6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
*
Honesty, Logic,

*7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why?
*
I really do like my logical thought. I like that I can separate myself from situations to increase my objectivity. However, I am constantly lonely. I don't have enough confidence, and I think that I judge people in order to make myself feel better about not seeking new friends.

*8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered?
*
This is complicated, because I know that my brain is constantly computing. I don't deny them out right, but I do not like to accept them unless I can discover the reason behind my hunch or feelings.

*9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why?
*
Going to concerts energizes me. Being around dramatic, whiny people drains me.

*10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why?
*
I hate having to repress my self. I hate conforming to other people. I repress just about everything that I think. I tend to not speak unless spoken to.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

You sure you're an NT? 
I'm kinda getting an Fi vibe off of you. 
I suppose you could be an ntj...


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## Velasquez (Jul 3, 2012)

I like how you have unapologetically omitted some of the questions. How come you think you may be ENTP and not INTP?


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## BK201 (Dec 14, 2013)

ENTJ maybe.


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## firedell (Aug 5, 2009)

ENTJ. Te/Fi.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Vague answers, but I get a Te/Fi vibe as well.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Pelopra said:


> You sure you're an NT?





Pelopra said:


> I'm kinda getting an Fi vibe off of you.
> I suppose you could be an ntj...


I'm pretty sure. I usually score INTP. Sketchier tests sometime result in ENTP, and once INTJ.
About Fi, there's lots of talk about INTPs somehow synthesizing Fi that isn't genuine




Velasquez said:


> I like how you have unapologetically omitted some of the questions. How come you think you may be ENTP and not INTP?


Haha, I'm not going to waste time answering questions which don't seem to fulfill my purpose well enough. Efficiency via laziness.
I believe that I'm ENTP, because I believe that I exhibited more ENxP (Ne) behavior as a young one than IxTP (Ti). I think that, once it has been determined, personality type does not change. So, since my early childhood was full of being bullied by peers, being disliked by the teachers for exhibiting ADD symptoms, never feeling like a FRIEND to anybody (just playmates, because all my "friends" were either patronizing, mentally retarded, or unintelligent, so they weren't on the same level as me). I believe that the rejection and lack of friendship molded me into a shy extrovert.

 @_JFA_, @_firedell_, @_Amenamy_ about ENTJ & Te/Ni... Where do you sense this?


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

dalton.thompson said:


> *2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
> *
> A: What's wrong with the vehicle, and how can I fix it? Can we fix it in time? I'd react with frustration, but I'd push to the front of the group and show my determination to fix the vehicle.
> 
> ...


A quick guide to Ti vs Te:

Ti has subjective, internal logic. Ti rejects external standards of logic. (In fact, often finds them irritating, oppressive, and completely arbitrary)
Te considers external standards of logic to be the basic material from which logic is formed. If it doesn't have an external basis, how can you even refer to it as "logic"? 

In an argument with Ni/Te, a frequent conflict that comes up with me (Ne/Ti) is that I view definitions as fluid, language as flexible. This drives most Te/Ni's I've met ballistic-- they feel "correct" language is as described, in the definition. in the dictionary. 
and that every time people use a word in a way other than its definition they are muddying the language and making the universe a harder place to live in.
For example, I had a big debate once on this board about whether the correct definition of functions is that used by MBTI experts and professionals or whether the "correct" definition can evolve as per the reported self-descriptions of the actual users.


Te/Ni is very decisive, Ti/Ne is not. 
Te/Ni immediately focuses on what it sees as a correct solution. Yes, there might be fifty other possible solutions, but they are irrelevant, because this one is a correct one, as conjectured by Ni and fact-checked by Te, so who cares and why waste time on the others? 
Whereas Ti/Ne generates fifty possible solutions, and begins meticulously evaluating each one via Ti. More than one will pass. A second round of evaluations will follow, trying to narrow the circle of "correct" answers-- although a plurality of correct answers is often assumed as a given.


Finally, thoughts on Fe/Fi:

There is a glaring lack of Fe in your post. I don't think a single word of it addressed other people's feelings, how you come across to other people, etc. This was particularly obvious where your Te was being expressed most strongly-- at the moments when you were describing behavior or feelings that could be abrasive to other people, not a word was spared on that subject, as if you consider it to be basically irrelevant. (Correction: You make one brief nod to this when you say that you would tactfully ask the person to justify their statement)

Ti/Fe users tend to be much more self conscious about how they come across to people. Even INTPs, with Fe as their fourth function, constantly angst about coming across as rude and how can they come off as less rude yadda yadda yadda. Perception management is a big deal to people with Fe, and even if it's low enough on their functions list that they're not great at it naturally, they're usually at least aware of and concerned with it.

Where your F peeped through was in Fi. Statements about repressing the self, or about having beliefs rammed down your throat, all suggest that you have a strong sense of self-identity, of your most deeply held basic values, that you experience ethics as something subjective and internal, rejecting external standards that you find oppressive and arbitrary (yes I'm echoing my definition of Ti for a reason here). 
Note that Fe users do not really have this. Fe is much more concerned with maintaining group happiness than preserving individual autonomy, and the Fe user will take for granted that their sense of self is secondary to their playing nice. This is partly because Fe users just don't have as firmly solidified a sense of self to begin with. Absent other people to reflect themselves off of, Fe users can be stumped by questions about their identity or their feelings. Their identity _is_ other people and their interactions with them, to some extent.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

dalton.thompson said:


> Haha, I'm not going to waste time answering questions which don't seem to fulfill my purpose well enough. Efficiency via laziness.


Congrats, you just classified yourself as an ENTJ.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

_



A desire to focus on "just the facts" crux of the problem. A strong immediate rush to take action, in fact a tacit assumption that this is expected of you, ie you push to the front of the group. Almost aggressively assertive behavior (again, the unselfconscious reference to pushing to the front of the group). Even a mention of being concerned about being on time. In short, a paragraph overflowing with classical or stereotypical Te markers. 

Click to expand...

_Immediate rush to take action was due to the need to get to the concert (it IS my favorite band!) and the satisfaction of teasing my brain about what's wrong with the vehicle (which I see as a Ti/Ne combo). Also, I tend to take leadership more when I know that nobody else will, such as with a group project which MUST be completed for school. It feels uncomfortable for me. I'm timid. I score quite high on P (84%). Nevertheless, I might (I'm not sure) have trouble trusting most people to do their jobs properly. Pushing to the front meets the needs of the group AND myself, because it leads to the problem being solved and our eventual arrival at the super-duper-awesome-concert-show. This is my favorite band alive. Of course I want to be on time! 



> _your assessment of whether a claim is "justified" is whether or not it is "unfounded"-- THIS is extremely classic Te. (Also, word choice: you don't ask for it to be 'explained', you ask for it to be 'justified' -- Je right there)
> _
> _...In addition, you have a strong emotional reaction (anger) to feeling that a belief is being "forced down your throat". This sounds very much like Fi (the strong sense of internal beliefs/values that deeply resents encroachment)
> 
> __...This sounded extremely Fi. The fixation of repression/conforming of the "true self"._


I don't see how something can be justified WITHOUT an explanation! As for the anger... I don't know what to say. I'm confused by emotions, and I'm confused with why I can't just accept that _some people are stupid!!! _I am totally open to being criticized, as long as somebody can back it up. For example, "you're an asshole" isn't enough. One must say, "you're an asshole, _because_..." 

As for the fixation on my "true self", I'll concede that point. Somehow, it bothers me that I find myself stuck on labels. I have some emotional reaction to my identity confusion about "I don't think I'm actually INTP!" I just went through a crisis of faith this year, so I went from Mormon to agnostic to atheist. Labels make everything so much easier, but they pose a problem when they are extrapolated to include stereotypes. However, I think I've reached a point where I can stop worrying about labels. I needed to stop using labels on myself, because I got caught up in the idea that if I told somebody I was an atheist, all those stereotypes about atheists would come to their minds and be immediately magnetized to me. This can be skewed towards Fe (I worried about what people thought about me) or Fi (I wanted to be seen as an individual). In the past month alone, I ended the only meaningful friendships I had, because they were causing me too much stress (INFP's Fi was offended, so he started attacking me; ENFJ feels like I'm attacking him, so he's been shutting off and caring less about me).




Pelopra said:


> A quick guide to Ti vs Te:





Pelopra said:


> Ti has subjective, internal logic. Ti rejects external standards of logic. (In fact, often finds them irritating, oppressive, and completely arbitrary)
> Te considers external standards of logic to be the basic material from which logic is formed. If it doesn't have an external basis, how can you even refer to it as "logic"?


I was pretty good at rationalizing (using false logic to explain things) before I had my crisis of faith.




> In an argument with Ni/Te, a frequent conflict that comes up with me (Ne/Ti) is that I view definitions as fluid, language as flexible. This drives most Te/Ni's I've met ballistic-- they feel "correct" language is as described, in the





> definition. in the dictionary.
> and that every time people use a word in a way other than its definition they are muddying the language and making the universe a harder place to live in.


Hey, I really wish that we could all use the same definitions for words. Puns are entertaining, and play upon the fluidity of language, but I really wish we could have language that is precise and universal. I concede that definitions are fluid, but I wish that the truth was different.



> Te/Ni is very decisive, Ti/Ne is not.
> Te/Ni immediately focuses on what it sees as a correct solution. Yes, there might be fifty other possible solutions, but they are irrelevant, because this one is a correct one, as conjectured by Ni and fact-checked by Te, so who cares and why waste time on the others?
> Whereas Ti/Ne generates fifty possible solutions, and begins meticulously evaluating each one via Ti. More than one will pass. A second round of evaluations will follow, trying to narrow the circle of "correct" answers-- although a plurality of correct answers is often assumed as a given.


I am totally willing to go back on my decisions. I make mistakes. I'm human. Actually, despite massive pain of changing, I enjoy learning when I'm wrong! It's exciting to see things from a new perspective. My problem is that I might throw my old perspective in the garbage, like what I did when I became an atheist.




> Ti/Fe users tend to be much more self conscious about how they come across to people. Even INTPs, with Fe as their fourth function, constantly angst about coming across as rude and how can they come off as less rude yadda yadda yadda. Perception management is a big deal to people with Fe, and even if it's low enough on their functions list that they're not great at it naturally, they're usually at least aware of and concerned with it.


Until recently, I was more concerned about other people saw me. For example, in the ninth grade, I bought certain clothes just to seem more "normal" or attractive, and I felt more confident when I wore them. Don't rule out the Fe just yet.




> Where your F peeped through was in Fi. Statements about repressing the self, or about having beliefs rammed down your throat, all suggest that you have a strong sense of self-identity, of your most deeply held basic values, that you experience ethics as something subjective and internal, rejecting external standards that you find oppressive and arbitrary (yes I'm echoing my definition of Ti for a reason here).


I apologize, because my "force it down my throat" idea reads vague to me. I don't even understand what I wrote. I think I was trying to say that it bothers me that people spread falsehoods, which eventually affect the world around me, especially through politics (anti-homosexual laws, etc.). I guess this might still be an Fi thing, though.

I appreciate your comments. They are specific and detailed. If I do turn out to be Te/Ni, that indicates that the tests that measure letters (ENTJ) are unreliable, and I will no longer be able to trust the 4-letter system. It would mean that the letters exist without a direct connection to the cognitive functions!

(By the way, the one test which I thought appeared reliable (my personality.info) classified me as 79% Introvert, 84% N/T/P.)


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

dalton.thompson said:


> Immediate rush to take action was due to the need to get to the concert (it IS my favorite band!) and the satisfaction of teasing my brain about what's wrong with the vehicle (which I see as a Ti/Ne combo). Also, I tend to take leadership more when I know that nobody else will, such as with a group project which MUST be completed for school. It feels uncomfortable for me. I'm timid. I score quite high on P (84%). Nevertheless, I might (I'm not sure) have trouble trusting most people to do their jobs properly. Pushing to the front meets the needs of the group AND myself, because it leads to the problem being solved and our eventual arrival at the super-duper-awesome-concert-show. This is my favorite band alive. Of course I want to be on time!


Classic Te control freak 



> I don't see how something can be justified WITHOUT an explanation! As for the anger... I don't know what to say. I'm confused by emotions, and I'm confused with why I can't just accept that _some people are stupid!!! _I am totally open to being criticized, as long as somebody can back it up. For example, "you're an asshole" isn't enough. One must say, "you're an asshole, _because_..."


Yeah, that's a very Te dom/aux type of response. I can definitely relate to it.



> As for the fixation on my "true self", I'll concede that point. Somehow, it bothers me that I find myself stuck on labels. I have some emotional reaction to my identity confusion about "I don't think I'm actually INTP!" I just went through a crisis of faith this year, so I went from Mormon to agnostic to atheist. Labels make everything so much easier, but they pose a problem when they are extrapolated to include stereotypes. However, I think I've reached a point where I can stop worrying about labels. I needed to stop using labels on myself, because I got caught up in the idea that if I told somebody I was an atheist, all those stereotypes about atheists would come to their minds and be immediately magnetized to me. This can be skewed towards Fe (I worried about what people thought about me) or Fi (I wanted to be seen as an individual). In the past month alone, I ended the only meaningful friendships I had, because they were causing me too much stress (INFP's Fi was offended, so he started attacking me; ENFJ feels like I'm attacking him, so he's been shutting off and caring less about me).


Nope, total Te! I can't help myself from wanting to categorize everything, it's just so much simpler to have a label to use as mental shorthand, even if I don't really think the thing itself is that simple.




> I really wish we could have language that is precise and universal. I concede that definitions are fluid, but I wish that the truth was different.


Te.



> Until recently, I was more concerned about other people saw me. For example, in the ninth grade, I bought certain clothes just to seem more "normal" or attractive, and I felt more confident when I wore them. Don't rule out the Fe just yet.


I did that in the sixth grade. A lot of young people are like that, using Fi doesn't make you immune to societal pressure. However, I'm also a 3, so you could rationalize it by looking at that, too.




> I appreciate your comments. They are specific and detailed. If I do turn out to be Te/Ni, that indicates that the tests that measure letters (ENTJ) are unreliable, and I will no longer be able to trust the 4-letter system. It would mean that the letters exist without a direct connection to the cognitive functions!


It is unreliable. The four letters are just a shorthand. They indicate what the functions are, the letters alone don't mean that much at all.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Okay, so I'd like to quote something I said recently, before this huge "OMG WHO AM I?" thing. It was a thread about which NT we would rather be, and I said this:



dalton.thompson said:


> I'm going for ENTJ. I wish I had their resolve. I wish I had a plan. I wish I could feel more comfortable in public settings.


To elaborate, I wish I had the resolve to do what I need to do (study, get a job, etc.), rather than just what I WANT to do. I wish I had a plan for my life, rather than this "I guess I'll go with the flow" thing that makes me feel like I'll always be smart, but I'll never accomplish anything with it, whatever that slippery word "accomplish" means.


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## BK201 (Dec 14, 2013)

When you said you brought cloths to seem 'normal' implying Fe, was it because you cared how others viewed you or you just wanted to avoid being bullied? which Fi is not immune to as Amenamy said. Maybe you are just an ENTJ that is down on their luck who has given up on planning and going against the flow.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Listen, at the end of the day if you don't relate to a type it's not hugely useful. Go to the entj forum, read through stuff there, see if it sounds familiar. Go to the intp/ENTP forums, do the same. 

Which type identification is most helpful in identifying your strengths and weak points? Which one seems to offer a framework for friction you've had with other people in the past? 


At the end of the day, a bunch of people on the Internet analyzing your word choice in a series of questions where there's plenty of room for ambiguity can only provide some sort of starting point. 


for the record, I made a sock puppet account (which got deleted.....) to test what results this forum gave me. I will say that they got the functions correct.... They just typed me as an isfj. The point is, it's hit or miss here, and since consensus among the audience seems to have been reached, you're just going to be running into confirmation bias and whatnot at this point. Go, read type specific forums, read in depth style essays on the cognitive functions board, filter out the 40% within each of the above options that is garbage, and come to your own conclusion.


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

Pelopra said:


> A quick guide to Ti vs Te:
> 
> 
> In an argument with Ni/Te, a frequent conflict that comes up with me (Ne/Ti) is that I view definitions as fluid, language as flexible. This drives most Te/Ni's I've met ballistic-- they feel "correct" language is as described, in the definition. in the dictionary.
> and that every time people use a word in a way other than its definition they are muddying the language and making the universe a harder place to live in.


What? I always correct peoples' language since the 2nd grade. And I'm pretty sure I use Ti but it's so much fun. I can'tget why people can't remember the meaning of words and the spelling.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

BlueberryCupcake said:


> What? I always correct peoples' language since the 2nd grade. And I'm pretty sure I use Ti but it's so much fun. I can'tget why people can't remember the meaning of words and the spelling.


Well I'm thinking of two arguments with Te doms I've had. 
In one on this forum, I said that if many people with Ne describe an Ne experience, this can be tentatively added to the understanding and definition of Ne. The Te user felt that relying on self reported experience was nonsense and the only possible heuristic for determining Ne would be paragraph quotations from the official mbti literature. 


Actually, on a thread I just made in cog functions someone offered a possibly better definition of Te, I shall rustle it up, one second

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitive-functions/173521-fe-vs-te.html


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

Pelopra said:


> Well I'm thinking of two arguments with Te doms I've had.
> The Te user felt that relying on self reported experience was nonsense and the only possible heuristic for determining Ne would be paragraph quotations from the official mbti literature.



Yes, Tes are often- or always- like "But Jung himself said...", "That has nothing to do with it." Just relying on external data, defined. Ti ideas are often nonsense. that is not like me.
But never mess up with grammar or spelling. Puns are funny yes, but they are meant to be. If someone is too lazy or too "stupid" to be precise... Words are my friends and nobody should be cruel to my friends.


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## Moya (May 22, 2012)

Pelopra said:


> In an argument with Ni/Te, a frequent conflict that comes up with me (Ne/Ti) is that I view definitions as fluid, language as flexible. This drives most Te/Ni's I've met ballistic-- they feel "correct" language is as described, in the definition. in the dictionary.
> and that every time people use a word in a way other than its definition they are muddying the language and making the universe a harder place to live in.
> For example, I had a big debate once on this board about whether the correct definition of functions is that used by MBTI experts and professionals or whether the "correct" definition can evolve as per the reported self-descriptions of the actual users.


Very true. My dad is an ENTP, and we both like to debate for fun, but I always feel he's making it impossible to reach a conclusion because he gets side tracked with "What ifs?". I'm not incapable of viewing alternatives, but when I feel there's a single answer that needs to be reached, I don't want to hear about his unrelated ideas. The definition thing particularly rings true, because he thinks that every definition and every concept can be fluidly defined, and I think that even though you can look at it from a different perspective, you can narrow it down to something universal.



BlueberryCupcake said:


> Yes, Tes are often- or always- like "But Jung himself said...", "That has nothing to do with it." Just relying on external data, defined. Ti ideas are often nonsense. that is not like me.
> But never mess up with grammar or spelling. Puns are funny yes, but they are meant to be. If someone is too lazy or too "stupid" to be precise... Words are my friends and nobody should be cruel to my friends.


This could be due to you having Ti over Ne and Pelopra having Ne over Ti. You'd naturally be a little more focused on being precise with your language.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Okay, updated my sig & all that stuff to signify my lack of surety.



> MBTI INTP, Socionics INTp, but might use Te/Ni.
> Took the Enneagram a while back, got 5w6. Took it again [today] and got the trifix of 7w6, 9w8, 3w4.
> The subjectivity of questionnaires compromises them.


I took the PerC Cog Func test and it came out... Te - Ne - Ti - Ni - Se - Si - Fe - Fi. Previously, I've had Ne dom, Ti dom, but I've never had Te dom in the multiple times that I've taken these tests. A more detailed view:



> Extroverted Thinking (Te) ||||||||||||||||||||||||| 11.85
> Extroverted Intuition (Ne) ||||||||||||||||||||||| 10.92
> Introverted Thinking (Ti) |||||||||||||||||||||| 10.19
> Introverted Intuition (Ni) |||||||||||||||||||| 9.255
> ...


I would like to remind you of what I said about xNTP synthesizing Fi. I wish I could understand how it happens.

A big problem that I find with these tests (beside the blatant subjectivity of questionnaires) is that, as my personal philosophy develops, my answers differ, so one day, I'll be more INTP, the next I'll be more ENTJ. It's confusing, and I don't know how much that my answers are affected by what I do to learn about ENTJs and how I am exploring the possibilities of being one. OR, if my answers are beginning to reflect my "true self" as I learn about how my childhood affects who I am today.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

Plus the questions are often leading questions or you know what's "expected" of you to answer 

Don't go by a test. Go read descriptions. I like the series on types in childhood, but there's other good ones. Browse through article section here on the site, there's good stuff there (in each type forum)


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

JFA said:


> When you said you brought cloths to seem 'normal' implying Fe, was it because you cared how others viewed you or you just wanted to avoid being bullied? which Fi is not immune to as Amenamy said. Maybe you are just an ENTJ that is down on their luck who has given up on planning and going against the flow.


Around 6th grade, I decided that I would be quiet to avoid bullying. I would attract less attention to myself. When I was in 7-11th grade, I began noticing a loneliness, a desire for a female presence in my life. I formulated a plan based around a men's lifestyle website, which was directly meant to increase my credibility amongst girls. Of course, the "self-improvement" would aid other areas of my life, but that was not the core goal. This plan involved the aforementioned clothes, physical training (which I never made a habit), and consciously adjusting myself to appear more confident (esp. with the way I walked; I developed an extremely noticeable swagger which my friends teased me about but also liked). I also spent time alone thinking of ways to talk to girls.

Sure, I love making plans, but I am generally poor with implementation. I recently read "Adult Children of Alcholics", and it claims that people growing in dysfunctional homes are likely to be unable to complete projects which they have begun. If I truly am an ENTJ, then this means that perhaps masses of Judgers are calling themselves Perceivers because their poor childhoods molded them to assume different personality types. "Perceiving" flexibility was my way of escaping the stress of my family life. Perhaps it was actually a form of defense mechanism. Whoa. Regardless, this musing is made with the _assumption _that the book (ACoA) is founded in reliable observations. It is possible that this is just a bunch of connections between falsehoods, so I'm hoping to explore this a bit more.


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## NT the DC (May 31, 2012)

Eh. For what it's worth I got more of a "F" vibe from you then more INTPs in the forum. Although that doesn't mean you are not a T. It just tells me you are socially conscious in comparison to many others. (but most in the forum are highly introverted so that's expected)
Also I got the vibe that you were opinionated but I don't get the strong Te vibe from you at all - you're way too diplomatic by my estimation. Your language like mine is less definitive.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

@dalton.thompson I don't think you're ENTJ because of how much you don't think you're ENTJ. what about ISTP? everything in your first post sounds like that to me... Or how wrong am i? lol :crazy:


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

NT the DC said:


> Eh. For what it's worth I got more of a "F" vibe from you then more INTPs in the forum. Although that doesn't mean you are not a T. It just tells me you are socially conscious in comparison to many others. (but most in the forum are highly introverted so that's expected)
> Also I got the vibe that you were opinionated but I don't get the strong Te vibe from you at all - you're way too diplomatic by my estimation. Your language like mine is less definitive.


I am open about my feelings, because I consider it important for me to resolve any emotional issues which I face. It is for my own benefit. I am NT, I know that much. 

Why am I diplomatic and socially conscious?: a) I care about others' feelings; b) I don't want to ruin my reputation by being abrasive; or c) I value the truth, and will concede when I believe that somebody else is more correct.
Option A could be considered Fe motive. I could argue that Option B is a symptom of any of the four Jx. Option C could be considered an Fi-based value judgment, or so I believe.

I do _slightly_ care about others' feelings, but I think that being attentive is my way of avoiding trouble with others. Thus, I believe that B & C are closer to how I actually think.
I don't like to be definitive unless I know that I am sure about something.



idoh said:


> @_dalton.thompson_ I don't think you're ENTJ because of how much you don't think you're ENTJ. what about ISTP? everything in your first post sounds like that to me... Or how wrong am i? lol :crazy:


Thinking that I'm not ENTJ just because I protest is poor rationale, sorry. What makes you think that I'm ISTP? I think that I'm extraverted, and that I only LEARNED to think and behave like an introvert, which is not my natural state. When I have moments during which I act extraverted, I feel great, and I don't want to stop. I assume that introverts may have those bursts, but after they end, they're glad to take a break. When I go to a concert, I want to continue spending time with people.


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## WinterFox (Sep 19, 2013)

INTP. To be honest, I feel more of a Ti vibe from you than an Ne vibe. :tongue:
ENTPs strike me as crazy and random and eccentric, whereas INTPs strike me as analytical. I saw a few of your posts and you have always striked me as a very analytical person who likes analyzing everything
You seemed to use Ti way more often than Ne, which makes me think that you are an INTP.

And you are definitely not ENTJ.
I remembered I was once confused whether I am INFJ or INFP, and you helped me to sort out my mbti type.
You said before that I am INFJ because we think very similarly as each other, and after much studying of cognitive functions I realised that I am indeed an INFJ because I use Ni-Fe and Ni-Se and Ti-Fe. 
Since I have already confirmed my type that I am indeed an INFJ then it means you are definitely an xNTP, given how similar our thinking is which is an attribute of our Ti. 


Anyway, if you want to figure out whether you are INTP or ENTP, you can try figuring out your inferior function. It's easy to confuse INTP and ENTP because of the Ti and Ne, so instead of analyzing the dominant/auxiliary combination you can try analyzing from your tertiary/inferior function instead. 
Do you find yourself better at using Fe or Si?
If you are better at using Fe it means Si is in your inferior which makes you an ENTP, but if you are better at using Si it means Fe is in your inferior which makes you an INTP.



Here is a description of Fe:

Feeling types use their Feeling function to weigh, evaluate, and analyze their affective responses to the world. They generally experience greater saliency, variability, and diversity of emotion than Thinking types do. For Thinking types, the Feeling function is less conscious and less differentiated, making them less equipped to notice emotional fluctuations or subtleties. For every emotion in a Thinking type’s arsenal, a Feeler distinguishes numerous different feelings or feeling tones. Because Feelers discern such a breadth of emotional variations and nuances, they may feel that words are often inadequate to capture and convey their experiences. This is why many turn to poetry, music, or the arts, searching for alternate ways of understanding and expressing their affective life.The Feeling functions also relate to the development of various tastes. Tastes are qualitative preferences—likes and dislikes. This is another reason Feeling types are drawn to exploring arts and culture, providing them with plenty of raw material to engage their Feeling function. Working with people and animals can be stimulating for similar reasons.Extraverted Feeling (Fe) is the dominant function of ENFJs and ESFJs. It is considered an extraverted Judging function. Whereas the extraverted Perceiving functions (e.g., Ne) express things in an open-ended fashion (e.g., “What do you think about…?” or “I wonder if …”), the extraverted Judging functions typically utilize declarative statements (e.g., “I feel…” or “I don’t like…”). Such differences are also conveyed through expressional tone. When J-types (especially EJs) ask questions, their tone may cause one to question their sincerity, since J-types are less comfortable with and typically do not display an attitude of outer receptiveness. The same is true for P-types (especially IPs) making declarative statements.
When Fe types engage with others, they are looking to create a bond of shared feeling, especially “good” feeling. This requires they not only extravert feeling, but also perceive it. They are hoping their feelings will be understood and reciprocated in a way that allows both parties to get on the same emotional page. 



And here is a description of Si:

It is also critical to recognize that Si will manifest somewhat differently depending on its relative position in the functional stack. For Si dominant types or auxiliary types, whom David Keirsey collectively coined the “Guardians” (SJ types), Si will play a different role than it will in the more liberal and freewheeling NP types. In SJ types, Si often translates into an _adherence to existing facts, traditions, worldviews, or methods_. These types are typically not well-equipped for, nor are they highly interested in, creating their own ideas or theories, which would require a stronger Ne. _They are more concerned with ensuring their beliefs and behaviors are consistent with an existing standard than they are in formulating their own set of standards. _In many ways, they are_ dependent _on what has already been already been tried and established, systems of thought that grant them a sense of consistency and security.When Introverted Sensing is lower in the stack, as in the case of NP types, it fails to provide the same degree of immediate and enduring certainty in their beliefs that we see in SJ types. This is due, at least in part, to the fact that NPs prefer to actively assemble their own theories about the world, relying less on tradition and conventions. Therefore, for NP types, the Si information utilized to aid and hone their Ne is often more _personal_ in nature. NP types place a vast amount of trust in their personal experiences, making their perspectives among the most idiosyncratic and individualistic of all types._Introverted Sensing can aid the personal growth and development of NP types_ by recalling to mind lessons learned from past experience. By remembering what they have already ruled out from past experiences or study, NPs feel they are, even if rather slowly, moving closer to certainty._ Si can also help NPs develop effective habits_. As NPs observe themselves over time, they can identify which behaviors allow them to function most optimally and feel the most satisfied. Then, when they start to get off track, their Si can step in and remind them of those behaviors that can help them return to a more balanced and healthy state. Since Si is inferior for ENP types, they may have the most difficulty developing and adhering to healthy habits.Finally, one of the most commonly overlooked functions of Introverted Sensing is its role in perceiving internal bodily sensations—the body as felt and experienced from within. More than any other psychological function, _Si provides access to our most basic sense of “being,” apart from thought or outward stimuli_. Historically, Eastern philosophical and religious traditions have done a much better job exploring this aspect of human experience than those of the West. This dimension of Si is engaged during activities that require close attention to one’s internal bodily state, such as yoga, Tai-Chi, or meditation.


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## WinterFox (Sep 19, 2013)

Btw, that "enjoy spending time with people" seemed more like an Fe thing than an extrovert thing.
I also enjoy spending time with people, but this doesn't make me an extrovert :tongue:

Fe loves connecting with people, so it's that Fe in you that makes you "enjoy spending time with people".


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## NT the DC (May 31, 2012)

dalton.thompson said:


> I am open about my feelings, because I consider it important for me to resolve any emotional issues which I face. It is for my own benefit. I am NT, I know that much.
> 
> Why am I diplomatic and socially conscious?: a) I care about others' feelings; b) I don't want to ruin my reputation by being abrasive; or c) I value the truth, and will concede when I believe that somebody else is more correct.
> Option A could be considered Fe motive. I could argue that Option B is a symptom of any of the four Jx. Option C could be considered an Fi-based value judgment, or so I believe.
> ...


It's hard to say from simple text.
My saying that you are more F isn't disregarding your self knowledge that you are an NT.
It's as you said - placing more of an emphasis on societal exception then the average NT.
I'd venture to guess you have some type 3 in your enneagram, but who knows.
But yeah the indecisiveness really doesn't make a strong case that you're a Te dom/aux.

You stated a couple times that you think you're not acting as "your true self" that seems like a enneagram type 3 issue to me.
In terms of how introverted/extroverted you are that's hard to determine.

I guess when looking at the Ne/Ti and the Ti/Ne dynamic a good question to ask is.
Do you feel like you lack information to analyze? IE: Don't have enough information to form a proper analysis.
Do you feel like you have too much information to proper analyze? Overwhelmed by all the angles to form a proper analysis.

My guess is the former is the issue.


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## idoh (Oct 24, 2013)

dalton.thompson said:


> Thinking that I'm not ENTJ just because I protest is poor rationale, sorry. What makes you think that I'm ISTP? I think that I'm extraverted, and that I only LEARNED to think and behave like an introvert, which is not my natural state. When I have moments during which I act extraverted, I feel great, and I don't want to stop. I assume that introverts may have those bursts, but after they end, they're glad to take a break. When I go to a concert, I want to continue spending time with people.


LOL ok. well i am pretty sure you use Ti and Fe because of how you analyze and question everything. no idea how to explain that. you could be ENTP too... but i think you are too bold to be INTP... and ISTP is like the aggressive INTP so i just went off of that. but if you know you're an extrovert then ENTP would have been my next guess

edit: do you notice how you criticized my logic? *points* that is Ti right?


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

WinterFox said:


> INTP. To be honest, I feel more of a Ti vibe from you than an Ne vibe. :tongue:
> ENTPs strike me as crazy and random and eccentric, whereas INTPs strike me as analytical. I saw a few of your posts and you have always striked me as a very analytical person who likes analyzing everything
> You seemed to use Ti way more often than Ne, which makes me think that you are an INTP.


ENTJ leads with a judging (analyzing) function as well, so I can be an extrovert while maintaining Tx dom.



> And you are definitely not ENTJ.
> I remembered I was once confused whether I am INFJ or INFP, and you helped me to sort out my mbti type.
> You said before that I am INFJ because we think very similarly as each other, and after much studying of cognitive functions I realised that I am indeed an INFJ because I use Ni-Fe and Ni-Se and Ti-Fe.
> Since I have already confirmed my type that I am indeed an INFJ then it means you are definitely an xNTP, given how similar our thinking is which is an attribute of our Ti.


My reasoning was bad. ENTJ shares Ni/Se with INFJ, just as INTP shares Ti/Fe. Using that logic, at least the parts that ENTJ shares with INFJ are aligned the same (Ni before Se), unlike INTP, which uses more Ti than Fe. I had an idea, and I found a way to make that idea work, but under proper scrutiny, my idea fails, at least as I see it right now. Maybe I _was_ on to something, but I don't know.



> Do you find yourself better at using Fe or Si?
> If you are better at using Fe it means Si is in your inferior which makes you an ENTP, but if you are better at using Si it means Fe is in your inferior which makes you an INTP.


*I usually don't care what others think or feel, as long as it doesn't affect me. (Bad Fe)
I often get "vibes" about patterns that I've previously experienced (effective Ni), but I can never remember details to support these feelings/ideas/intuitions. (Bad Si)
*


NT the DC said:


> It's hard to say from simple text.
> My saying that you are more F isn't disregarding your self knowledge that you are an NT.
> It's as you said - placing more of an emphasis on societal exception then the average NT.
> I'd venture to guess you have some type 3 in your enneagram, but who knows.
> But yeah the indecisiveness really doesn't make a strong case that you're a Te dom/aux...


*Buzzer* Previously scored 5w6, recently scored 7w6.
I have indecisiveness, because I want my decision to be right the first time so that I don't need to change it later. I collect/analyze/criticize information until I feel comfortable deciding, but more analyzing/criticizing than collecting, I believe.



idoh said:


> ...i am pretty sure you use Ti and Fe because of how you analyze and question everything. no idea how to explain that. you could be ENTP too...
> do you notice how you criticized my logic? *points* that is Ti right?


It's definitely Tx, but which, I know not. Both Tx are judging functions, so they both involve analysis, although they work differently.

*The bolded section above indicates what kicked me into believing that I am indeed an ENTJ. Thanks for the help, and if anybody disagrees, keep talking if you can argue otherwise.*


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## NT the DC (May 31, 2012)

dalton.thompson said:


> ENTJ leads with a judging (analyzing) function as well, so I can be an extrovert while maintaining Tx dom.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Emnegrams are actually more than one type, it's a tri-type complete with wings.
What was your tri-type?
...oh I just noticed your signature has it. You have a 3w4 so why the buzzer?


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

NT the DC said:


> Emnegrams are actually more than one type, it's a tri-type complete with wings.
> What was your tri-type?
> ...oh I just noticed your signature has it. You have a 3w4 so why the buzzer?


_7w6, 9w8, 3w4._ Because I didn't realize that it's important. I though that only the first really mattered. I don't know anything about Enneagram.


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## NT the DC (May 31, 2012)

dalton.thompson said:


> _7w6, 9w8, 3w4._ Because I didn't realize that it's important. I though that only the first really mattered. I don't know anything about Enneagram.


Hmm well it's interesting to me because 5's become more like 7's when they are stressed and 7's become more like 5's during growth. The fact that you first tested 5 and now you're 7... it makes me wonder what's been going on since you first took the test.

I think looking at the tritype is interesting:
http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...ype-archetype-descriptions-3.html#post1808389
http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...ype-archetype-descriptions-2.html#post1808381

You can compare the 593 and 793 and decide what seems more like you.
A 5 would be more associated with a introverted personality type while in my opinion a 7 would be more associated with extroverted. 
I primarily recognize the 3 because I have 3 in my tritype as well, it makes me feel like I wear a social mask.

And you never answered this:


NT the DC said:


> I guess when looking at the Ne/Ti and the Ti/Ne dynamic a good question to ask is.
> Do you feel like you lack information to analyze? IE: Don't have enough information to form a proper analysis.
> Do you feel like you have too much information to proper analyze? Overwhelmed by all the angles to form a proper analysis.
> 
> My guess is the former is the issue.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

NT the DC said:


> Hmm well it's interesting to me because 5's become more like 7's when they are stressed and 7's become more like 5's during growth. The fact that you first tested 5 and now you're 7... it makes me wonder what's been going on since you first took the test.
> 
> I think looking at the tritype is interesting:
> http://personalitycafe.com/enneagra...ype-archetype-descriptions-3.html#post1808389
> ...


That's an interesting concept. I guess I'm stressed right now, but I'm also undergoing tremendous growth, as I have been for the past year. To be honest, I respond so well to stress that I don't know how bad it is until it all finally builds up when I forget to resolve it.

Ooh, I am NOT the "rainbows & kittens" 793. I can be bubbly at times, but I am closer to the 593. I don't avoid conflict nearly as much as 793 would suggest. I am not that people-oriented. _Assuming that it's a deathmatch between the two_, I'm a 593. I guess I am under stress right now! haha damnit

Okay, now about your question: It depends on the situation. I don't think it's possible to have too much information, because I have the ability to discern (or at least guess) which information is worth analyzing by doing some sort of pre-analysis. I somehow judge about which data is reliable and relevant to achieve my desired conclusion (but I'm not _deciding_ my conclusion beforehand, of course).

So, once again about the 5 vs 7 thing: I behave much more like the typical introvert, despite my belief that I absorb energy rather than expel it. My natural, "first few years out of the womb" state is extraverted. That was before I was tainted by the evils of this world. haha


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## NT the DC (May 31, 2012)

dalton.thompson said:


> That's an interesting concept. I guess I'm stressed right now, but I'm also undergoing tremendous growth, as I have been for the past year. To be honest, I respond so well to stress that I don't know how bad it is until it all finally builds up when I forget to resolve it.
> 
> Ooh, I am NOT the "rainbows & kittens" 793. I can be bubbly at times, but I am closer to the 593. I don't avoid conflict nearly as much as 793 would suggest. I am not that people-oriented. _Assuming that it's a deathmatch between the two_, I'm a 593. I guess I am under stress right now! haha damnit
> 
> ...


You seem more like a INTP to me then.
I'd say the reason you question it is because of type 3 being in the enneagram making you image conscious which seems to go against the grain in terms of being an INTP. 
...and stress.

Your answer also suggests you use Ti as a leading function over Ne.

Also it's an interesting concept but I don't think your natural state as a child has too much weight. I'm pretty sure the MBTI revolves more around adults. I don't even see how a kid would be able to understand the true meaning of a question and I don't remember many MBTI questionnaires asking about how you were as a child and how that evolved with time.


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

@dalton.thompson curious what your final conclusion was.


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## Versatility (Feb 19, 2013)

First impression was ENTJ.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Pelopra said:


> @_dalton.thompson_ curious what your final conclusion was.


Pretty sure I'm ENTJ. My life makes so much sense now, (e.g. my propensity for drawing charts and creating bulleted lists, and my inability to relax for more than a day without feeling guilty).


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

dalton.thompson said:


> Pretty sure I'm ENTJ. My life makes so much sense now, (e.g. my propensity for drawing charts and creating bulleted lists, and my inability to relax for more than a day without feeling guilty).


Also consider ENFP.

Just for funsies.

:kitteh:

I'm surprised no one else mentioned this, to be frank.


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## Raawx (Oct 9, 2013)

dalton.thompson said:


> Pretty sure I'm ENTJ. My life makes so much sense now, (e.g. my propensity for drawing charts and creating bulleted lists, and my inability to relax for more than a day without feeling guilty).


Wait, I think, I understand you. Those can't be _just_ ENTJ qualities, can they?


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Word Dispenser said:


> Also consider ENFP. Just for funsies.


haha not an ENFP. I definitely use Ni, and Fi, although it does have significance, is nowhere near as polarizing as logic for my decision-making process.



Raawx said:


> Wait, I think, I understand you. Those can't be _just_ ENTJ qualities, can they?


Of course not. They're Te qualities, which apply to all TJs, and even FPs to a certain extent.


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