# Intellects, please help me solve this issue about my type. (non intels welcome too)



## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

Okay, so I would say I feel pretty darn INTP; however, there are a number of times where I'm not INTP at all. Now I have weakish Introvert and Percieving scores, 63%, meaning in 37% of the scenarios I was quizzed on I would be judging or extroverted. So my question is, how can that play a role in the cognitive functions I use?

For example, at work, when I first started this job I basically did it without thinking at all, and I daydreamed like an INTP. But now the heat has turned up and I'm like a bulldog, well, maybe more like water when it comes to getting jobs done, because if it's easier to circumvent something to get the job done I do it, or if I need to crash through something like a tidal wave I do it. I'm literally obsessed with getting back ahead, and I get really pissed off if I fail, especially if it's because of reasons beyond my control. Last week we needed to get a hold of this guy, and this guy was gone on vacation and was the only person who could help us out. I was irate at the whole situation. I tried talking to every person in that place until they practically just wanted to hang up on me. I wasn't about to take no for an answer. I know when stressed people switch over to their shadow functions; however, I'm not really feeling stressed, aside from if I fail, and when I succeed, which I do more often than fail, I feel invigorated. Maybe it's the type 3 enneagram, but I like the feeling, a lot. Is this an ENTJ attitude or am I being more ENTP or am I just a stressed out INTP? It's not just blind obsession either: I've placed everyone in the places of their greatest strengths and devised a system that caters to that, where as before we didn't specialize.

Another example of this is if I'm in a social situation. I become what I believe to be very INTJ if I'm around someone I dislike. Even if it's a mild dislike I begin pinpointing flaws and contradictions in the things the person says, and I do it in very terse fashion, which is a far cry from my typical discursive and verbose ramblings. Usually if some "game practitioner" comes up and starts hitting on my female friends, I point out how effing stupid he is until he grows uncomfortable to the point of offering to buy us all drinks or just leaves. If he buys us drinks I'm not swayed, rather I respect him less and become more hostile, and proceed to pick him apart. Does that seem INTJ???

So I don't know... I mean when I enter these modes I can definitely say I'm not existing as an INTP, but I don't know enough about what Ni and Te feel like to know if I'm using them. I know for a fact a lot of the time at work I'm using Ne big-time, but other times I wonder if I'm not doing Te...

Thoughts on how I could know if at work or in conflict I turn XNTJ?? And the thing is that it doesn't take much, I can pretty much do it consciously. Could that be because of my border line Perceiving score???

Thanks in advance for reading this. Definitely a verbose INTP at the moment :crazy:


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## Thrifty Walrus (Jul 8, 2010)

To be honest you always kind of struck me as an ENTP, not an INTP. But now that you mentioned ENTJ, I can see that too..... I think it helps to remember the letters aren't 100% yes or no.... You are picking whatever function you_ prefer_.

To me, you don't really seem to_ prefer_ introversion, you seem more extroverted to me. Although maybe prefer is a poor choice of words, I guess I should say whichever you do _more often_.

I think, based on reading this post you are an ENTP, with a borderline P/J, and the I/E is just kind of hard to understand...


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## darksoul (Jul 17, 2010)

I had always thought your J was stronger than most of the other INTPs in the forum. That said, there is a varying degree of INTPness. It's possible you're merely more developed in some areas than a typical INTP. Then, there's the chameleon quality, which may explain why you're a go-getter at work or turn into an INTJ (though I'd go with ENTJ) when you're around someone you dislike.

I don't know if I'm much help here. I'm still learning about the functions myself.


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## Zinette (May 4, 2010)

Try this one:

Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes

and tell me how did you score


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Which feeling function do you think you use?

If you use Se quite good, then that means you're an ENTJ because INTPs use Si and INTJs are crappy with Se. 

Knowing whether you use Fe or Fi may help find the missing pieces. Remember also that ENTJs aren't great with Si, INTPs use it in a particular way that's easy to spot (want to know more?)

INTP's functions are the flip over of an ENTJ, if you can't figure out Ni over Te over Ti and Ne then look at your feeling function. Fe or Fi?

http://personalitycafe.com/cognitiv...iled-descriptions-each-function-attitude.html < Read this if you're unsure of functions. Best article here.


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## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

Zinette said:


> Try this one:
> 
> Keys 2 Cognition - Cognitive Processes
> 
> and tell me how did you score


Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)

extraverted Sensing (Se) **************************** (29)
average use

introverted Sensing (Si) ******************************* (31.9)
good use

extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************* (33.9)
good use

introverted Intuiting (Ni) *********************************** (35)
good use

extraverted Thinking (Te) ***************************** (29)
average use

introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************** (34.9)
good use

extraverted Feeling (Fe) **************** (16.9)
limited use

introverted Feeling (Fi) ***************************** (30)
average use


It said it thought me to be INTP, and that if that didn't seem a good fit that I could be ENTP or INTJ

Geez, I never realized that I used Ni so much... How the hell does that even work?! an Ni and Ti combo going on???


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Trainwreck said:


> Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
> 
> extraverted Sensing (Se) **************************** (29)
> average use
> ...


Then you could be an INFJ with a tertiary loop. Your Ti overriding your Fe.


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## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

assbiscuits said:


> Then you could be an INFJ with a tertiary loop. Your Ti overriding your Fe.


Hmmm, I sort of neglected to ever read up on F function, and now that I've read up, I'm definately Fi if when it comes to feeling. I feel like my stong Fi wouldn't allow me to be INFJ. My mom is INFJ and we don't get along AT ALL. She's very prude and in love with established norms of proper moral behavior, where as I say, "To hell with that shit. I've got a better doctrine right here," which then pisses her off to no end. Then sometimes I argue for the sake of it. Long story short, I call her stupid, and she calls me a monster. And don't those loops come from being unbalanced or something? I feel pretty healthy, aside from maybe 1 or 2 booze binges a month, which studies are finding heavy drinkers who avoid alcoholism outlive teetotalers bar none.

Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers, Study Finds - TIME

But I appreciate the analysis and the effort to help me solve this riddle none the less


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Trainwreck said:


> Hmmm, I sort of neglected to ever read up on F function, and now that I've read up, I'm definately Fi if when it comes to feeling. I feel like my stong Fi wouldn't allow me to be INFJ. My mom is INFJ and we don't get along AT ALL. She's very prude and in love with established norms of proper moral behavior, where as I say, "To hell with that shit. I've got a better doctrine right here," which then pisses her off to no end. Then sometimes I argue for the sake of it. Long story short, I call her stupid, and she calls me a monster. And don't those loops come from being unbalanced or something? I feel pretty healthy, aside from maybe 1 or 2 booze binges a month, which studies are finding heavy drinkers who avoid alcoholism outlive teetotalers bar none.
> 
> Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers, Study Finds - TIME
> 
> But I appreciate the analysis and the effort to help me solve this riddle none the less


Sounds like me and my mother. 

That link is a load of shite lol.


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## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

assbiscuits said:


> Sounds like me and my mother.
> 
> That link is a load of shite lol.


Why, broken link? :tongue:

People who don't drink are so up tight it's unbelievable. So you kill some brain cells, big effin deal. All those brain cells are gonna be festering worm food at some point down the road, and apparently, feeding the worms here and there by killing a few as you walk down that road will keep the worms pacified for longer, and get you further on down that road. I've yet to encounter a scenario so stressful that a 12 pack and a friend I'm not afraid to tell anything to couldn't get me over. Where as non-drinkers will shell out 90 bucks an hour for some asshole to listen to their shit, not go off blabbing it to anyone, and then write them a prescription for some bullshit pill to take every day to permanently alter their brain chemistry?? I'll go with keeping my mind as my own aside from when _I_ chose to let go (get drunk), and I'll let people who truly support me, support me, not some asshole who only does it for the money. roud:


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

Trainwreck said:


> Why, broken link? :tongue:
> 
> People who don't drink are so up tight it's unbelievable. So you kill some brain cells, big effin deal. All those brain cells are gonna be festering worm food at some point down the road, and apparently, feeding the worms here and there by killing a few as you walk down that road will keep the worms pacified for longer, and get you further on down that road. I've yet to encounter a scenario so stressful that a 12 pack and a friend I'm not afraid to tell anything to couldn't get me over. Where as non-drinkers will shell out 90 bucks an hour for some asshole to listen to their shit, not go off blabbing it to anyone, and then write them a prescription for some bullshit pill to take every day to permanently alter their brain chemistry?? I'll go with keeping my mind as my own aside from when _I_ chose to let go (get drunk), and I'll let people who truly support me, support me, not some asshole who only does it for the money. roud:


I don't drink because I don't see the logic behind it (not a moral choice, somewhat of a health choice I suppose). I'm not very uptight either. The reason I don't drink has more to do with how idiotic and less to do with my brain cells.

The point of that article was to share what they'd discovered. They provided a pretty good reason and that it's because people who are socially excluded (since drinking is a social thing, peer pressure some might argue, it seems to not be very socially acceptable to drink) are going to be depressed because people need human interaction. Depression a bigger killer than alcohol and cuts your life short.

You should probably read the last paragraph if you're going to use that as prove that someone should drink. 

It won't be a killer for me because I get on fine out with friends without a drink. I don't get socially excluded despite living in Ireland.

I don't go to therapy. I handle my problems by dealing with them. I won't take any sort of cognitive enhancing drug either.


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## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

assbiscuits said:


> I don't drink because I don't see the logic behind it (not a moral choice, somewhat of a health choice I suppose). I'm not very uptight either. The reason I don't drink has more to do with how idiotic and less to do with my brain cells.
> 
> The point of that article was to share what they'd discovered. They provided a pretty good reason and that it's because people who are socially excluded (since drinking is a social thing, peer pressure some might argue, it seems to not be very socially acceptable to drink) are going to be depressed because people need human interaction. Depression a bigger killer than alcohol and cuts your life short.
> 
> ...


It wasn't my intention to sway anyone into drinking. I think everyone should do what makes themselves the most happy. So I was providing justification for my own choice to do so because In my experience, I don't need alcohol to have fun, but I have significantly more fun when I do drink, and having fun being an idiot while still being a productive member of society is what brings me the most happiness, which is where my zeal for this topic comes from. 

If I seemed in preemptive attack mode it comes from dealing with the snobby "I don't need to drink to have fun" type, who are almost militant against drinking, and they seem to always be out to prove to everyone how they don't need alcohol to have fun while trying to fault those who do. All of that negativity from those people just fueled my fervor for my own philosophical ideology, which is a little trite but it does have my personal touch, and that is: We will all be completely destroyed eventually, and we might as well enjoy the process of falling apart and not fight it. As I said before, do what brings you the most happiness. You however, have surprised me with a sound, rational, and trenchant rejoinder, without even a veiled insult anywhere in there as I can tell. I however, got caustic first, and you didn't make a vitriol response of your own but rather took the high road. I'm not used to dealing with rational people in these sorts of discussions so I was sort of buffering myself for what I'm used to encountering with this discussion, and I can see now that you deserve much more credit than that.


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## nothingnew (Aug 8, 2010)

Trainwreck said:


> Okay, so I would say I feel pretty darn INTP; however, there are a number of times where I'm not INTP at all. Now I have weakish Introvert and Percieving scores, 63%, meaning in 37% of the scenarios I was quizzed on I would be judging or extroverted. So my question is, how can that play a role in the cognitive functions I use?
> 
> For example, at work, when I first started this job I basically did it without thinking at all, and I daydreamed like an INTP. But now the heat has turned up and I'm like a bulldog, well, maybe more like water when it comes to getting jobs done, because if it's easier to circumvent something to get the job done I do it, or if I need to crash through something like a tidal wave I do it. I'm literally obsessed with getting back ahead, and I get really pissed off if I fail, especially if it's because of reasons beyond my control. Last week we needed to get a hold of this guy, and this guy was gone on vacation and was the only person who could help us out. I was irate at the whole situation. I tried talking to every person in that place until they practically just wanted to hang up on me. I wasn't about to take no for an answer. I know when stressed people switch over to their shadow functions; however, I'm not really feeling stressed, aside from if I fail, and when I succeed, which I do more often than fail, I feel invigorated. Maybe it's the type 3 enneagram, but I like the feeling, a lot. Is this an ENTJ attitude or am I being more ENTP or am I just a stressed out INTP? It's not just blind obsession either: I've placed everyone in the places of their greatest strengths and devised a system that caters to that, where as before we didn't specialize.
> 
> ...


I think personality types are a newer and less exact science. My problem is they are general in many ways. Hell, the entire field of psychology disagrees with each other on cognitive processes. It is not like other more exact sciences. Take geology, where an ounce of pure copper is nothing more than an ounce of copper. In psychology, a psychodynamic theory, such as much of Jung's work, completely ignores free will. Free will is the basis of a social cognitive theory - people change the environment to meet personal expectations. When that is achieved the person develops into... My point is psychology is a developing science.

As for the examples you describe, I act the same way when I give a fuck greatly. If I bought a new tv, I would care and keep it nice but no big deal; I am easy going no matter the weather. Now, a job I like is different. That is my bread and butter and I hate for people to fuck with it or perform sub-par. At my last job, I told more than one person to 'go to Burger King with their bullshit.' I shined my shoes often and ironed my shirts two times a week. That was one of, if not the only, aspect of my life I wasn't playing games with. I perceived people negatively there that were playing games. 

I used to drink at the bar with 2 guys and 8 girls. The hard-ons (I called em stiff-legs) trying to hit on my female friends all the time got so old. We started going to gay bars to avoid it, and sure enough there was the same crap there. It just totally kills the conversation and the mood to have some asshole try and edge in between a group of friends. I see it as some people go to the bar to drink (me), and some people go to the bar to meet people. I think you may just be protecting your friends from someone you think does not have their best intentions in mind, or they are ruining the mood like a Fred Phelps at a wake. 

Both of your examples are based on perceptions, and I was under the impression that perceptions were something INTPs specialized in.


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## Zinette (May 4, 2010)

Trainwreck said:


> Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
> 
> extraverted Sensing (Se) **************************** (29)
> average use
> ...


Oh shoot  I've opened Pandora's box ^^

Usually people get results looking like stairs - you could tell which functions they prefer at the first glance.

I saw something similar before - God scores like you do [more or less], and in the beginning she typed herself ENTP then she switched to ESTP then back to ENTP then she started to consider INTP to be her type... then she wrote that she is probably borderline ENTP/ENTJ, but later on I saw that she was ENFJ... Now she is ESTP again. 

I cannot tell what your type may be, but since you score low on Fe I guess that this is one of your "shadow" functions, so I would narrow down your search to types which don't have Fe among their two primary functions, so ENFJ/INFJ and ESFJ/ISFJ are imo out of the question. 

On the other hand ENTJ/INTJ and ESTJ/ISTJ are types with "low Fe". Personally I don't think that you are a guardian. I've read some of your posts and hehehehehe, you don't have the guardian vibe, sorry^^. You score relatively high on Si though, and that may indicate that you might be either ENFP/INFP or ENTP/INTP. 

BTW - how did you find this test? Difficult? It says in the FAQ that


> Based on feedback and data to-date, Sensing-preferences folks do not have a harder time with this survey, as some have wondered. Rather, the individuals who have the most difficulty with the survey's questions report preference for introverted Thinking (INTP, ENTP, ISTP, ESTP). This may be because the phrase definitions are not set, and because introverted Thinking is the cognitive processmost used when critiquing.


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## JakeT (Sep 21, 2009)

Trainwreck said:


> Why, broken link? :tongue:
> 
> People who don't drink are so up tight it's unbelievable. So you kill some brain cells, big effin deal. All those brain cells are gonna be festering worm food at some point down the road, and apparently, feeding the worms here and there by killing a few as you walk down that road will keep the worms pacified for longer, and get you further on down that road. I've yet to encounter a scenario so stressful that a 12 pack and a friend I'm not afraid to tell anything to couldn't get me over. Where as non-drinkers will shell out 90 bucks an hour for some asshole to listen to their shit, not go off blabbing it to anyone, and then write them a prescription for some bullshit pill to take every day to permanently alter their brain chemistry?? I'll go with keeping my mind as my own aside from when _I_ chose to let go (get drunk), and I'll let people who truly support me, support me, not some asshole who only does it for the money. roud:


Um.... Hi. Non-drinker here. I've never talked to a therapist, or taken a sip of alcohol. I get over my problems through my strength of will and if that doesn't work, I pray about it. You strike me as the atheist type, so I won't get into my faith, except that it's never failed me. I happen to take great pride in my self-control and ability to use my problems to grow as an individual rather than ingest a toxic chemical to make me feel better temporarily. 

If I had taken to drinking every time I had a problem that seemed hopeless, I wouldn't be half the person I am right now, and I'd have spent a heck of a lot of money on beer. Please don't make broad generalizations just because you don't happen to agree with a particular value system. I happen to think a lot of heavy drinkers are spineless cowards who don't have the balls to confront life head-on... but that's just me. I'm sure you're not all like that.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

Zinette said:


> Oh shoot  I've opened Pandora's box ^^
> 
> Usually people get results looking like stairs - you could tell which functions they prefer at the first glance.
> 
> ...


You kind of did because now I am questioning if I am an ENTP. If you want my results I can pm them to you. 

I don't drink and I am considered the most easy going person some people know. It could be possibly the reason I am single. But rather be single for life them force myself to drink horribly tasting drinks that make horrendously miserable to be accepted.:laughing:


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## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

@ Jake, Joe, and anyone else offended by my previous incendiary statement about alcohol:

Let me first apologize for my crass wording. I should've said, "A lot of the people _I've_ encountered who don't drink are so uptight." If you read my response to Assibiscuits, you will see that the response came from a lot of negative personal encounters as well as my own unique, albeit somewhat sordid past. I've spent the majority of my life having flawed 'normal' individuals cast stones at me, so an automatic defense mechanism was activated in an inappropriate arena for it. I do not consider the scintillatingly bright and prodigious intellects here on PerC to be flawed, I am simply a creature of habit with a lot of built in defense mechanisms who has been drug through the mud, by both myself and powers beyond my control, though most of the times I feel like my own self is a power beyond my control, if that makes a lick of sense.

To answer Jake with regards to God. I am not an atheist. My life has been great, though I consider that to be shallow reasoning for people to posit the existence of God: _my_ life is good, therefore God favors me. I'll leave that line of reasoning for others. Not to say I'm accusing anyone here of thinking like that.

As for how I handle my problems, well, I guess it's story time for those interested:

When I was 16 I had agoraphobia with panic attack so badly that I could barely even attend school. I was put on medication that resulted in me feeling nothing. I didn't much care for the idea of having either fear or feeling numb all the time so I tried to kill myself by mixing my mothers beta blockers with a bottle of rum in the cabinet. After a nice stay in the hospital psyche ward they decided to shuffle my meds around and I attempted suicide again at 17. At 18 I was a senior in highschool and I eased myself off of the litany of bullshit that had me taking each day and made myself socialize again and get out of the house no matter how scary it was. I began to feel good half the time, and panicky the rest, which was like _heaven_ compared to what I had before. Half way through my senior year I decided I was going to go away to college, damn the fear to hell. I was determined to pull through.

In college I threw caution completely to the wind and I came out of my shell fully and made so many amazing lifelong friends, it was the most amazing thing ever in my life. Through the entirety of college, while still having panic attacks and sleepless nights, I managed to lose my virginity, wake up in different towns than the ones I started drinking in, including one town's jail, and another town's detox. I'll never forget after spending 50 hours in detox getting on a Grey Hound bus having had no sleep, just wanting to get to my own bed, but it was a Tuesday and I had an exam that day. I got into town after a 1.5 hour bus ride, walked across town to campus, came through the classroom door wearing the same clothes I had on that Saturday night, got a freakin' 92% on my Public Finance test, and went out the next weekend to celebrate and share the epic tale. I've fought in a cage, tried cocaine (didn't care for it), spent 30 days in the workhouse, done stand up comedy and still do, and been in two motorcycle wrecks. All the while having horrible anxiety episodes along the way, but all the while also having the time of my fucking life. 

When I look back at that awesome fucking rollercoaster I went on, that scared me shitless but yet was just _too_ much damn fun at the same time. I don't think I'd of done 80% of those things had I not been drunk. I certainly wouldn't have hung out with the people I did who constantly pushed me. Do I medicate myself? There's a very strong possibility that I do. But I really don't care. I'm 25, I make good money, and I've got all the stupid bullshit things that a person could want. But I'd honestly trade it all to go back on that ride one more time. And if I meet my maker a little sooner because of it? I don't care. I may have lived less time, but I still lived more. And when I meet God I'm gonna look him right in the face and say, "You're a miserable bastard for making me do all that, but I still fucking love you to pieces for it and I wouldn't have had it any other way."

So yeah, I'm a bit of a strange individual, and now you all know why I chose the name "Trainwreck."

PS A little tid bit: jail is horribly unfun while you're there, but probably one of the funniest things ever once you get out. Think of it like a fun investment should you find yourself there :wink:


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## Trainwreck (Sep 14, 2010)

Zinette said:


> BTW - how did you find this test? Difficult? It says in the FAQ that


Ummmmmmmmm, I didn't find it entirely all that difficult. There may have been a tiny bit o' knit picking on my end. I'm going to try an experiment. I'm going to take that test again over the weekend when I'm relaxed and not in "hyper aware work mode," and see what happens.


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## Zinette (May 4, 2010)

Trainwreck said:


> Ummmmmmmmm, I didn't find it entirely all that difficult. There may have been a tiny bit o' knit picking on my end. I'm going to try an experiment. I'm going to take that test again over the weekend when I'm relaxed and not in "hyper aware work mode," and see what happens.


Good idea. I've been uhm...  monitoring myself for three months now, because I am open to the possibility that I may actually be a case of a really f^^ed up ESFP after all, since I score so high on Se [45.3]

Oh, I am kidding right now, but when I take the "general" test I came as ENTP/ESTP and there is no way I am one ^^. My ex husband is a cliche ENTP so I know the type pretty well, and ESTPs... uhm... I don't want to pass judgment so let's just say that they are not "my" people."Functionwise" I am highly extroverted and irrational [Se=Te, and Se=Ni] so that may be why I came as P in general test^^

Enyways - good luck 

JoetheBull - you made me curious ^^ now I insist on you showing me your results, otherwise I would not be able to sleep tonight 

[oh, and I never drink to change my mood, loosen up, to "have fun" and so on. I just love the taste of good red wine, moscatel and sherry... mmmmm... sherry...delicious...sometimes I get drunk this way, but it kinda happens as an obvious result of drinking alcohol, I never drink to get myself drunk]


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