# Help for shy males



## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

This all started in a different thread. Our friend @Noctis is having some real difficulty meeting women. A lot of this is due to a lack of self confidence. This is a real common problem, especially among young males. 

I asked him to talk to 10 girls he didn't know in the next two weeks. No time limit. I was just trying to prove that these women actually would not bite off his head (or his penis). I will make the same charge to anyone that needs to improve. 

I really would like this thread to be an interplay between the guys that need to hone their skills, and the ladies to offer advice. I want to know how these young men are progressing. If you're looking to improve your social skills with the fairer sex, please let us know how it's going. 

I also want to clarify that this can be unisex as well. Societal norms, however, generally dictate that the male be the hunter, and the female be the hunted. That is why I chose my wording the way I did. 

I hope this thread will be beneficial.


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## Thay (May 2, 2014)

One of them did. Bite off my glans. Ouch.


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

*hugs* are you alright?


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## jamaix (Sep 20, 2013)

If your friend is looking for a relationship consider approaching a quiet shy introverted girl. Some of these girls can be quite attractive, but may not be asked out as often since they are not outgoing and are often perceived as stuck up, disinterested, or boring. This is usually not the case. Since they are harder to approach, they are often overlooked. Because they are not often approached they may actually be more receptive (_if you can make it through the initial awkwardness_) and appreciative of being asked out. They will also be more forgiving of your lack of expertise as they won't have as much to compare it to.

Remember that since they aren't outgoing it is probably best to approach initially just for conversation. The first conversation may be a little stiff and awkward but each time you see them and make the effort it will get easier. As they begin to open up and become more comfortable around you, make your move and ask them out.

Remember, it is probably just as awkward for them as it is for you but someone has to make the first move or that first date will never occur.

Good luck!


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

Any tips for approaching introverted girls?


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

One of the biggest things stopping lots of guys is just not putting themselves out there. Fear of rejection takes over. 

It's easier said than done, but my honest advice is to not focus on a goal like 'finding a girl to date or successfully talking to a bunch of women', start with 'I'm going to feel secure and confident with who I am, and confident with putting myself out there'. If you just focus on gaining self confidence and feeling secure in who you are the fear of rejection will slowly go away as well. Then the goal isn't about 'getting a girl', its about 'putting yourself out there and finding a girl to connect with'.


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## Sporadic Aura (Sep 13, 2009)

strayfire said:


> Any tips for approaching introverted girls?


The only thing more difficult about approaching introverted girls is that you are more likely to have to initiate it. 

I would say though try to be aware of whether the girl is in a place where she would welcome you approaching her, or if she would rather be left alone at the moment. Introverts are just as receptive to meeting people as extroverts IMO, the difference is that introverts aren't ALWAYS going to be receptive, sometimes they just want to recharge and be by themselves. If you approach her during one of those times she might be curt and a little stand-off-ish.


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

People don't know what they want. You don't want to meet a woman, you just want to fit in and you're afraid of being single 'cause it makes you look bad and you've been brainwashed by the wedding-industrial complex to think it's the point of life to "get the girl" or whatever. What if you just didn't give a shit?


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## Falling Leaves (Aug 18, 2011)

Uh, as someone who also suffers from shyness, I think you just have to look at the situation in proportion (rather than projecting your feelings of hurt/rejection onto it). No, it's not the world crashing experience you think it is, it's just being rejected: It happens and isn't a reflection on your personality or quality as a person. 

If you walk up to a girl and just talk to her with the aim of just talking to her - and not necessarily anything more - then it's not strictly your problem if she doesn't respond; maybe she was about to leave, maybe you just don't have anything much in common, maybe she too is anxious around people and doesn't know what to say to strangers. 

...additionally, I'd say you'd have more luck if your gambit wasn't clearly pre-mediated with sex in mind. Believe it or not, girls can find a guy who charges up to them and comes on really strongly intimidating as fuck, and furthermore, won't see any reason to desire you. If you just come across as a normal guy looking to have fun, meet new people - and not pester your way into someones pants - then she'll likely be more attracted to you. What people forget is that it takes two people to tango, and if all you can offer in terms of character is 'I want to have sex with you', she's not going to really find that compelling - after all, you're probably not the only guy in the bar who thinks that. 

Also, this should go without saying, take care of the context in which you are hitting on someone (e.g. if they are reading a book on a bus, leave them the fuck alone) and respect their wishes if they don't want to speak to you. Don't speak to them in a manner which makes it difficult for them to disengage themselves, and take care to pay attention to their body language. Nobody likes a creeper.


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## TWN (Feb 16, 2012)

[No message]


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## redcarol57 (May 2, 2012)

Just start conversations, even if it's about the weather, a new song, a current event, etc. Better yet, ask for an opinion on something. But here's my advice to you - when you start a conversation, don't have an agenda. You'll quickly experience rejection if a woman senses you have an agenda or goal with regards to her. I think most often that's when men experience rejection. 

Just a thought.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

I talk about body language a lot, because a lot of people are completely oblivious to what message they are putting out. I recommend watching it from beginning to end. 






Fake it until you _become_ it.


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

Sporadic Aura said:


> The only thing more difficult about approaching introverted girls is that you are more likely to have to initiate it.
> 
> I would say though try to be aware of whether the girl is in a place where she would welcome you approaching her, or if she would rather be left alone at the moment. Introverts are just as receptive to meeting people as extroverts IMO, the difference is that introverts aren't ALWAYS going to be receptive, sometimes they just want to recharge and be by themselves. If you approach her during one of those times she might be curt and a little stand-off-ish.


True. I am hanging out with an introverted female I have known since middle school. However, it is the friends stage. She has autism and is really shy, shier than me. She is nice, but appears a bit standoffish at times (when she initiates a hug bye, she sort of freezes up) or she talks in a monotone and I have difficulty understanding her feelings and emotions unless she told me by text or by facebook message. I generally have better luck with connecting with extroverted women because when they initiate hugs, they generally show happiness and excitement, are clear in showing their emotions verbally in person or by email/facebook and the like. However the issue with extroverted women is that I only have so much energy before I have to recharge, therefore I may not participate in their social extravaganzas so frequently, and I generally feel uncomfortable with a lot of people I just met. Even-though an extrovert might be a nice compliment for an introvert like me, I think that it would be difficult for me and an extrovert to understand each other. Therefore, an introvert might be a more sensible approach.


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

jamaix said:


> If your friend is looking for a relationship consider approaching a quiet shy introverted girl. Some of these girls can be quite attractive, but may not be asked out as often since they are not outgoing and are often perceived as stuck up, disinterested, or boring. This is usually not the case. Since they are harder to approach, they are often overlooked. Because they are not often approached they may actually be more receptive (_if you can make it through the initial awkwardness_) and appreciative of being asked out. They will also be more forgiving of your lack of expertise as they won't have as much to compare it to.
> 
> Remember that since they aren't outgoing it is probably best to approach initially just for conversation. The first conversation may be a little stiff and awkward but each time you see them and make the effort it will get easier. As they begin to open up and become more comfortable around you, make your move and ask them out.
> 
> ...


I am hanging out with an introvert female I have known since middle school, but me and her are in the friends stage at the moment. However, she freezes up when she initiates hugs goodbye and generally speaks in a monotone, so it's hard for me to understand what her emotions are, unless by Facebook message or text. I am careful not to go beyond what she is comfortable with and I respect her by only doing things in which she is comfortable with. Me and her generally play video games when she hangs out, or she shows me her artwork and tells me of her interest in anime and characters she relates to. The pros are that me and her are both introverts, both young adults (I am 25 and I think she is 24) and both have an interest in artistic things (she is into art such as drawing, painting, etc. and I am into music such as symphonic metal). Me and her are disinterested in pop culture, and question societal norms and stereotypes.


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

TWN said:


> I was actually a confidence coach for awhile (It's the less sleazy version of a "pickup" artist), and I found that the reason men are shy, and afraid of meeting women is heavily grounded in their personalities, and their perception of how the world should work.
> 
> Most of the guys I worked with, while moderately intelligent, were under the assumption that to be irresistible to the ladies a man had to have loads of money. Or be devilishly handsome. Or, have a natural swagger to them.
> 
> ...


Wait, grow some balls? Seriously?? I smell a double standard here. If this were a shy female starting this thread, you wouldn't have said something as offensive as grow some balls to her. I personally take offense to the grow some balls statement, as it means that men who are as shy as some women are acting so called "weak". Have a "natural swagger", hah! People don't grow confidence over night. He is a fool. So men who are shy are shamed as "being weak" simply because they are shy. I see where this is going. You can either be respectful in regards to my post, or you can shut up. It's your choice.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Noctis said:


> Wait, grow some balls? Seriously?? I smell a double standard here. If this were a shy female starting this thread, you wouldn't have said something as offensive as grow some balls to her. I personally take offense to the grow some balls statement, as it means that men who are as shy as some women are acting so called "weak". Have a "natural swagger", hah! People don't grow confidence over night. He is a fool. So men who are shy are shamed as "being weak" simply because they are shy. I see where this is going. You can either be respectful in regards to my post, or you can shut up. It's your choice.


I've told women to grow a pair before. It's true for both genders.


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

monemi said:


> I've told women to grow a pair before. It's true for both genders.


Well it could be translated as "Your're not man enough" to the male (esp if the man is a feeler male, which feeler men are marginalized by society a lot for being not fitting the narrow stereotype) and to the female (if she is a feeler, since women are traditionally feelers, men traditionally thinkers) it could translate to "Act like a stereotypical man who is traditionally emotionally stoic."


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

Thay said:


> One of them did. Bite off my glans. Ouch.


Geez :/ That really must have hurt.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Noctis said:


> Well it could be translated as "Your're not man enough" to the male (esp if the man is a feeler male, which feeler men are marginalized by society a lot for being not fitting the narrow stereotype) and to the female (if she is a feeler, since women are traditionally feelers, men traditionally thinkers) it could translate to "Act like a stereotypical man who is traditionally emotionally stoic."


It means show some courage. Courage isn't fearlessness. I've used courage many times. It's being scared and doing it anyway. It's not an insult. It's just comradeship. We've all been there, but you can't always shy away from it. At some point, it's do or die. Except in the dating world, it's not literally die. We hope. :tongue:


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## Thay (May 2, 2014)

monemi said:


> I've told women to grow a pair before. It's true for both genders.


Obedient guys like me run quickly into trouble - we'll be growing pairs all over the place, until we're so covered in them no one will see us for the balls.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

Noctis said:


> True. I am hanging out with an introverted female I have known since middle school. However, it is the friends stage. She has autism and is really shy, shier than me. She is nice, but appears a bit standoffish at times (when she initiates a hug bye, she sort of freezes up) or she talks in a monotone and I have difficulty understanding her feelings and emotions unless she told me by text or by facebook message. I generally have better luck with connecting with extroverted women because when they initiate hugs, they generally show happiness and excitement, are clear in showing their emotions verbally in person or by email/facebook and the like. However the issue with extroverted women is that I only have so much energy before I have to recharge, therefore I may not participate in their social extravaganzas so frequently, and I generally feel uncomfortable with a lot of people I just met. Even-though an extrovert might be a nice compliment for an introvert like me, I think that it would be difficult for me and an extrovert to understand each other. Therefore, an introvert might be a more sensible approach.



you have to get comfortable doing what makes you uncomfortable, otherwise these "discomforts" really decide what it is that you do in life. it's like giving your will over to an insecurity, or to a really bad friend that's always cutting you down--as if you were to constantly consult them on every decision you make, and instead of empowering you they/it insidiously comment on the "sweeter side" of what's already familiar. 

it's kind of already happening in the way that you are defaulting to 'introverted girls', because they are, in so many words, "easier to deal with". it's fine if you know that's what you like, but without having a legitimate comparison to make--positive experience with the opposite--how would you really know? 


i do something similar. if i don't care about the outcome, i don't over-think a situation. but if i do care i find that i sort of sink into myself; i convince myself that this thing that i want, or this person/these people that i'd like to befriend must see me in a negative light, and all my will and energy is just sapped. in that scenario i allow myself to become a blank canvas and let everyone around me turn me into whatever it is _they_ see, as opposed to what i am. sometimes, if i gauged the situation right, it won't matter--but there are other times i'd rather not kick myself later for not just stepping out.


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

monemi said:


> It means show some courage. Courage isn't fearlessness. I've used courage many times. It's being scared and doing it anyway. It's not an insult. It's just comradeship. We've all been there, but you can't always shy away from it. At some point, it's do or die. Except in the dating world, it's not literally die. We hope. :tongue:


I have had that courage many times, from martial arts to asking someone out, despite being afraid. I got rejections a lot from the opposite sex, but that didn't stop me from having the courage to ask. I never had a real homecoming or prom date in high school, yet I still had the courage to ask females before prom in advance. Heck, I never had a girlfriend in college for the most part, but I wasn't afraid to ask the ladies at my college out as well. I had only one girlfriend in my senior year in college, but I actually met her online and she was from another continent, but sadly, she ended up becoming abusive. Luckily she broke up with me after 6 months into the relationship. Point is, I had the courage not only to try to get a girlfriend, even-though she ended up abusive, but I also had the courage to let her know near the end of the relationship, despite fear, that I felt that she was being abusive and that I wasn't going to take her abuse anymore, and I would break up with her if she ever said anything more verbally and emotionally abusive to me. She tried to play the "let's be friends with ex" game, and I foolishly took the bait, and she continued being abusive, despite being "friends" and I ended up blocking her after sending a message explaining that I couldn't take her abuse anymore.


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Thay said:


> One of them did. Bite off my glans. Ouch.


Spontaneous circumcisions are NOT encouraged!


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

^Be like this guy.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Amine said:


> ^Be like this guy.


My stomach feels so ill after this. 

LMAO

Ralph!

A fricken homeless vagina and street hustler. 

Oh dreamy!

This dude has way too much pride considering.


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

Cinnamon83 said:


> Oh dreamy!


Apparently, though! He gets way more pussy than most guys ever will, especially ones who try really, really hard and make threads about how they need help overcoming their shyness in meeting women.

That's just reality, folks. Get mad. The same woman a "nice guy" would put on a pedestal and take to some nice restaurant or try to put a ring on, this guy probably fucked in a convenience store bathroom 5 years ago and gave herpes to. Literally. That's how this works.

Just give up, shy guys. Stop desperately trying to find a girl who will fuck you. Just live your life and be thankful you aren't a part of that whole mess. Masturbate every day. Never fuck anyone who you haven't put through _the works_. Ever. And then once you fuck them, _don't stop_ putting them through the works. Your dick is a treasure which requires constant vigilance. No one is ever ultimately trustable, not even someone you think you love. Sex is earned. You should be the one making people beg, making them jump through hoops.

That's my philosophy anyway. But hey I never get laid. Not that I care.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Noctis said:


> I have had that courage many times, from martial arts to asking someone out, despite being afraid. I got rejections a lot from the opposite sex, but that didn't stop me from having the courage to ask. I never had a real homecoming or prom date in high school, yet I still had the courage to ask females before prom in advance. Heck, I never had a girlfriend in college for the most part, but I wasn't afraid to ask the ladies at my college out as well. I had only one girlfriend in my senior year in college, but I actually met her online and she was from another continent, but sadly, she ended up becoming abusive. Luckily she broke up with me after 6 months into the relationship. Point is, I had the courage not only to try to get a girlfriend, even-though she ended up abusive, but I also had the courage to let her know near the end of the relationship, despite fear, that I felt that she was being abusive and that I wasn't going to take her abuse anymore, and I would break up with her if she ever said anything more verbally and emotionally abusive to me. She tried to play the "let's be friends with ex" game, and I foolishly took the bait, and she continued being abusive, despite being "friends" and I ended up blocking her after sending a message explaining that I couldn't take her abuse anymore.


Not to say that didn't take courage. But what was your body language when you asked these people out? Have you tried any exercises to improve your presence? How well do you do with things like job interviews?


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

monemi said:


> Not to say that didn't take courage. But what was your body language when you asked these people out? Have you tried any exercises to improve your presence? How well do you do with things like job interviews?


I generally am more calm during job interviews because it is generally something that isn't as distracting as being in front of a very attractive woman, who is just as beautiful inside as out and asking her out, as that really puts pressure on me. I generally act nervous during times when I ask someone out who I am generally attracted to, but I have the courage to do it. I try to emulate the presence of my favorite singers and their charisma, as well as passion to try to improve my presence, but that presence generally goes away in front of someone I am very attracted to. Sometimes humor and finding common ground helps to build confidence and be more calm with that someone in casual situations, but directly asking them out generally puts me on the spot and makes me nervous. Sometimes I try to ask people out I am interested online, which is more comfortable, but that safety cushion is merely an illusion because it doesn't seem to have the naturality and personableness as asking someone out in person.


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

Donovan said:


> you have to get comfortable doing what makes you uncomfortable, otherwise these "discomforts" really decide what it is that you do in life. it's like giving your will over to an insecurity, or to a really bad friend that's always cutting you down--as if you were to constantly consult them on every decision you make, and instead of empowering you they/it insidiously comment on the "sweeter side" of what's already familiar.
> 
> it's kind of already happening in the way that you are defaulting to 'introverted girls', because they are, in so many words, "easier to deal with". it's fine if you know that's what you like, but without having a legitimate comparison to make--positive experience with the opposite--how would you really know?
> 
> ...


I find that when I generally ask out an extrovert, generally an extroverted feeler, the extroverted woman would say that they only like me as a friend and that they would prefer to be just friends because they see me as just a friend, nothing more. It is very difficult, because I really like an extrovert feeler's warmth (kindness to everyone, is touchy feely, genuinely cares about people, socially warm, good communication skills and is assertive, is enthusiastic when talking to me) All these qualities I like in women and yet I keep on getting rejected by them simply because at the moment they only see me as just a friend. It takes me a lot to gather the courage to ask them out. I am generally super polite towards extroverted feelers because of their extreme warmth and kindness that I find attractive, but I do not know how to make myself attractive to them. I am generally seen by them as a polite, nerdy, intelligent guy, but not seen as dating material.


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## jamaix (Sep 20, 2013)

strayfire said:


> Any tips for approaching introverted girls?


Go where they're more likely to hang out. You are probably not going to find them at big noisy parties. Pay attention, maybe try to observe (very very discreetly so as not to creep them out) from a distance initially. By observing you can probably learn a few things about them, determine if you have common interest, learn some of their habits. Gaining this knowledge can help you with conversation starters.

*true story*: I know of a very quiet, extremely introverted young lady who basically didn't date or even acknowledge guys. Very pretty and sweet, but just didn't seem to connect with guys. I saw multiple guys try to talk to her but none got anywhere with her. Most would try a time or two then move on. Observing as an outsider, she appeared disinterested. But something happened and this changed. She flipped for this guy who seemed to me, at that time, an unlikely choice. I asked her, okay, what is different about him. I've seen many try and fail so why him? She said well, unlike most, he just kept talking to me. Through this they found out they shared some common interest. They knew each other for several months before he asked her out. They shared common friends that they hung out together with. So she had time to get comfortable with him. He did have to work to establish this relationship but let me tell you, she absolutely adores him. He owns her heart. I just hope he never breaks it.


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## 66393 (Oct 17, 2013)

Haha. This thread is so for me. I have social anxiety, so conversing with my own gender is already hard enough. One step at a time [Redacted].


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Noctis said:


> I generally am more calm during job interviews because it is generally something that isn't as distracting as being in front of a very attractive woman, who is just as beautiful inside as out and asking her out, as that really puts pressure on me. I generally act nervous during times when I ask someone out who I am generally attracted to, but I have the courage to do it. I try to emulate the presence of my favorite singers and their charisma, as well as passion to try to improve my presence, but that presence generally goes away in front of someone I am very attracted to. Sometimes humor and finding common ground helps to build confidence and be more calm with that someone in casual situations, but directly asking them out generally puts me on the spot and makes me nervous. Sometimes I try to ask people out I am interested online, which is more comfortable, but that safety cushion is merely an illusion because it doesn't seem to have the naturality and personableness as asking someone out in person.


Where in there did you mention a single word about your body language? 

What is your body language saying in these situations?


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## Noctis (Apr 4, 2012)

monemi said:


> Where in there did you mention a single word about your body language?
> 
> What is your body language saying in these situations?


My body language in these situations is nervous in these situations. I am generally stammering, stutter and talk faster than normal, but I look them in the eye (the females I am asking out) when asking them out. My body language is saying: I find them attractive, and it is intimidating, not only because of their attractiveness, but I am afraid of being rejected again after I have been rejected so many times before.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Noctis said:


> My body language in these situations is nervous in these situations. I am generally stammering, stutter and talk faster than normal, but I look them in the eye (the females I am asking out) when asking them out. My body language is saying: I find them attractive, and it is intimidating, not only because of their attractiveness, but I am afraid of being rejected again after I have been rejected so many times before.


So, how about working on your body language? I'm not asking you to stop being you, but there is no need to be intimidated by women you are attracted. Would you want to date someone who is intimidated by you? I wouldn't. They shit too. They're just people. Change your body language, change how you view them and things should start improving. Open your stance, relax your body, head up, breathe and remember they aren't so different from you.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

I'm not sure if I'm a shy male.

I don't think I'm afraid of rejection. I think I'm afraid of taking a leap of faith. 

So what if I start talking to a girl and don't like her? But she likes me. Then I have to reject _her_.


I'm afraid of rejecting.


G: "Why did you lead me on ? ?? ? "
Me: "I thought I liked you but it turns out I don't "
G: "OMG I HATE YOU"
G: /killsself


no but really

I have a history of having to reject girls, and it sucks every time. It doesn't get easier.


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

Good lord I just found this.... Straight White Boys Texting

My world is ending right now this is so bad. Nevermind that it is kind of racist. These texts are so bad.

This is where "trying too hard" will lead you... please don't do it. It's better to get no sex and keep your dignity than it is to be so transparently pathetic and desperate. Seriously. Don't even do the body language stuff. It makes you look like an idiot. Just be yourself, for the love of god.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Amine said:


> I'm just making sure there is a voice in this thread that says to forget all the tactics and be who you are. You're good who you are; in fact, being who you aren't makes you look like a fool.


No one told him to become someone else. I told him there's no need to be intimidated. Body language tells people how you feel. 










Actors aren't paid for nothing.


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

monemi said:


> No one told him to become someone else. I told him there's no need to be intimidated. Body language tells people how you feel.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You could have started with that instead of calling people dicks.

Body language just doesn't seem to me like it is the problem. Seems like a very superficial fix, and certainly not some miracle cure. Standing with your hands on your hips doesn't get you women, nor does strained, creepily excessive eye contact. Personally I think it just makes people go "wtf." Amy Cuddy sells, though, because lots of people are desperate for some solution. It's gonna get you a practically imperceptible gain at best. More likely it makes you look like you're up to something bizarre. The thing about actors is that most of them aren't any good.. and certainly not people who don't act by trade. Applying acting skills IRL may be possible for highly trained and talented actors (even then it's questionable, there are no second takes IRL), but for the regular "shy guy", I reckon it just would make him look like.... a bad actor. Which is deplorable.

Personally I think all of these tactical answers miss the real problem clearly at play here, and that is self esteem. These answers all sound to me like giving someone who is sick some bandaids. There's this problem where men think they are worthless if they can't get girls. They feel immense pressure. They wrap their whole self esteem up in getting (sexual) validation from women and that's, again, deplorable. It's the source of all those horribly misguided and desperate texts on the link I posted. It is embarrassing for these people.

I'm tired of the "help for frustrated men" industry. That's where these things come from. I bet the majority of those texts came from guys who visited help-getting-women sites and were given advice that worked for someone else in a totally different context and thought it would work for them too. That's not how interpersonal works. We're all different and what works in one moment doesn't work in the next. It's almost never about learning a bunch of rules and applying them. It's about who you are inside. Figuring _that_ out is your best, perhaps _only_ bet. Plus you're more likely to get someone who appreciates you for you the less of a facade you put up. Maybe some girl likes the fact that you can't talk to women. What do I know? This part of life isn't governed by consistent rules.

In the end it isn't even about getting some girl. It's about being right with yourself. Then getting a girl won't matter. And maybe you'll get one and maybe you won't.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Amine said:


> You could have started with that instead of calling people dicks.
> 
> Body language just doesn't seem to me like it is the problem. Seems like a very superficial fix, and certainly not some miracle cure. Standing with your hands on your hips doesn't get you women, nor does strained, creepily excessive eye contact. Personally I think it just makes people go "wtf." Amy Cuddy sells, though, because lots of people are desperate for some solution. It's gonna get you a practically imperceptible gain at best. More likely it makes you look like you're up to something bizarre. The thing about actors is that most of them aren't any good.. and certainly not people who don't act by trade. Applying acting skills IRL may be possible for highly trained and talented actors (even then it's questionable, there are no second takes IRL), but for the regular "shy guy", I reckon it just would make him look like.... a bad actor. Which is deplorable.
> 
> ...


I didn't call you a dick. I said you're being a dick. 

I don't think body language is an insta-fix. It's one part of the picture of building self-esteem. Another part is too many people with low self-esteem seriously believe that they're different from the rest of us. They're one of us whether they believe it or not. They're not better or worse. We're different but the same. I can't fix someone's self-esteem, but I can point out the physically obvious signals they are sending to people that are sabotaging their attempts. 

The best I can suggest, is to fix the obvious. Frankly, the world is a competitive place. Some people hate competition. They get ratty, pack up their toy trains and go home. The thing is, the world doesn't give a crap if they don't like competition. We don't compete, we're lucky if we get leftovers. And people with low self-esteem hate competition. Do you give them a dose of reality or do you try to build them up? People respond to a person more positively with good body language. Practice body language and see what works and what doesn't work. Fast learners will get positive feedback sooner. It's at least a starting point. 

I don't think people with low self-esteem are doomed. (I realize low self-esteem and shy aren't the same thing, but OP has self-esteem issues.) I can't help assholes. They're pretty much doomed to be miserable and to make the people they encounter miserable. But low self-esteem is something that can be fixed. I've seen it remedied before and helped friends with self-esteem issues before. And after all the things, I tried, growing a pair and improving body language were the fastest ways to achieve small successes and start building self-esteem.


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

monemi said:


> I didn't call you a dick. I said you're being a dick.


Big difference. And I'm sure it's fine if I go around making single-line posts saying "you're being a bitch" when I disagree with some woman. Name calling is name calling. I found it rather inappropriate. It was a childish, if not sexist reply. Own up. You won't see me doing that.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Was in it some other post?
> That one you quoted didn't have any insults.


Yes it did.
There's no way to argue that that wasn't offensive


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

WillyT said:


> This isn't personal. Somebody's gotta kick your ass into shape. This is an "advice" thread. I'm giving it to ya.


A little softer tone would be advantageous.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

WillyT said:


> This isn't personal. Somebody's gotta kick your ass into shape. This is an "advice" thread. I'm giving it to ya.


I never asked for advice.
I issued a statement.
And that wasn't advice in any applicable version of the meaning of the word "advice".
The comment was purely offensive and I suggest you change your behaviour if you dont want to get banned. Now that's advice


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## WillyT (Jul 22, 2013)

[No message]


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

sraddatz said:


> A little softer tone would be advantageous.


The message is also quite faulty.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

WillyT said:


> Bullshit. He gets his feelings hurt because he knows I'm right. He's gotta face it.


Face what? I'm in a relationship. Obviously you are wrong about this


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## WillyT (Jul 22, 2013)

Morfinyon said:


> I never asked for advice.
> I issued a statement.
> And that wasn't advice in any applicable version of the meaning of the word "advice".
> The comment was purely offensive and I suggest you change your behaviour if you dont want to get banned. Now that's advice


Then ignore me. Getting banned isn't a big deal for me. I've been kicked off more message boards than I can count.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

WillyT said:


> Then ignore me. Getting banned isn't a big deal for me. I've been kicked off more message boards than I can count.


Sigh


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

WillyT said:


> Then ignore me. Getting banned isn't a big deal for me. I've been kicked off more message boards than I can count.


I am not surprised.


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## WillyT (Jul 22, 2013)

Morfinyon said:


> Face what? I'm in a relationship. Obviously you are wrong about this


If you don't mind me asking: Why are you posting in this thread? This is about "help" for shy guys.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Morfinyon said:


> Yes it did.
> There's no way to argue that that wasn't offensive


Explain to me how it was offensive, I don't see it.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

WillyT said:


> If you don't mind me asking: Why are you posting in this thread? This is about "help" for shy guys.


I offered my point of view and gave hidden advice. From the perspective of a shy guy


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

WillyT said:


> If you don't mind me asking: Why are you posting in this thread? This is about "help" for shy guys.


It might be more pertinent to ask why you are posting in this thread when you seem intent on belittling shy and introverted people under the pretence of "advice".


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Explain to me how it was offensive, I don't see it.


So you think telling someone "have fun being the "friend" and go pay single moms to have sex with you" is not offensive at all?


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## WillyT (Jul 22, 2013)

strayfire said:


> The message is also quite faulty.


I've been successful in relationships.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Morfinyon said:


> So you think telling someone "have fun being the "friend" and go pay single moms to have sex with you" is not offensive at all?



It isn't offensive.
He's right, single moms who have been "through the ringer" tend to like nice guys.


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

WillyT said:


> I've been successful in relationships.


Just because propeller engined planes fly doesn't mean jet engines don't work.



Cheveyo said:


> It isn't offensive.
> He's right, single moms who have been "through the ringer" tend to like nice guys.


It's offensive because of the phrasing, which suggests that a sensitive person like Morfy is _*only *_capable of attaining sex with single mothers in exchange for stuff.

Anyhow. I'm sure there was once a topic.


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## WillyT (Jul 22, 2013)

strayfire said:


> It might be more pertinent to ask why you are posting in this thread when you seem intent on belittling shy and introverted people under the pretence of "advice".


I'm giving them the advice they're asking for. They've got to get over the shyness. I was once just like them. I got over it. They can too. They may not like the message, but the truth can be brutal.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> It isn't offensive.
> He's right, single moms who have been "through the ringer" tend to like nice guys.


It's about the hidden intent and tone of the message.


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## WillyT (Jul 22, 2013)

strayfire said:


> Just because propeller engined planes fly doesn't mean jet engines don't work.


Uhhhhhh..........Okay.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> My parents did a splendid job at fucking me up, too! The worst part- they never stop.


Yee ;x
My mum still gives me angry phone calls and literally calls me a worthless piece of shit and that I need to sleep around with girls or else I'm a loser


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Morfinyon said:


> Yee ;x
> My mum still gives me angry phone calls and literally calls me a worthless piece of shit and that I need to sleep around with girls or else I'm a loser


My mom asked me if I was gay once. I said "no, I'm just a loser".


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

I found it beneficial to maintain distance from them. Even though they are your parents, if it's a hurtful relationship, it's one you shouldn't have. Don't answer her phone calls if that is how she talks to you.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> My mom asked me if I was gay once. I said "no, I'm just a loser".


Lelel my mum prolly assumes im gay too. But she hates gays so yea.
I kinda want to just move as far away from her as I can once I got some money :3


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

sraddatz said:


> Yes. Back on topic. It's all about giving these young men advice without breaking them down. Women are fucking complicated. they're nothing like us. From the 50,000 foot view, it's all about being confident and assertive. You can't be assertive if you're not confident. It's my opinion you need to be both if those things. It's my opinion that if you are not, the best life you can live is waiting until you are.


I don't think women are complicated. Just recongnise they're just human beings. Difference is always exaggerated.

I do on occassion agree with Chev, contrary to popular belief.



Cheveyo said:


> The best advice is to simply realize that women are humans. They're flawed and weird and broken just like men.
> Secondly, confidence is something you work on yourself. Work out, learn to like yourself. The rest will come with practice.
> 
> On liking yourself: Go full on and explore all the darkest facets of yourselves so that you can change what you don't like or just accept it all. You don't have to understand yourself fully, that's not really possible for most people. But you should look to understand why you react the way you do to the world around you.


Confidence wise... or anything rather; Dr Nerdlove is a good site to get non-PUA dating advice for introverts. 

Build Your Confidence



Cheveyo said:


> Talk to them, tell her you're attracted to her. "I'm attracted to you and I can't take just being friends."
> If she says you'll never be anything but a friend, or says something like "I'm not ready for a relationship right now." You say your goodbyes and you distance yourself.
> 
> 
> ...


Just not on all matters.

It's so much better to just remian friends. Ending a friendship just like that is a very childish way to find love. I can understand why someone would choose to do so, and sometimes that is the best case but what is often not considered is that these potential crushes are great for helping you find love. 

As close friends they can be some of the closest and best friends in your life. Throwing away friends like that might land you a bad reputation or just a lost opportunity to make friends! c:


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Morfinyon said:


> Lelel my mum prolly assumes im gay too. But she hates gays so yea.
> I kinda want to just move as far away from her as I can once I got some money :3


My sister moved away 5 years ago and left me with both of these crazy fuckers! Bitch.


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

strayfire said:


> I don't think women are complicated. Just recongnise they're just human beings. Difference is always exaggerated.
> 
> Are you kidding me?! I'd rather try to take a course in molecular physics than try to figure out women. They come from an entirely different perspective. Especially in my house, where I'm the strict rational, and she's a total free spirit. It's not true for all, but the emotional needs for women go way beyond my understanding.


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Morfinyon said:


> Yee ;x
> My mum still gives me angry phone calls and literally calls me a worthless piece of shit and that I need to sleep around with girls or else I'm a loser


Have you ever seen a psychiatrist to work through some of that? I know if you hear something enough, eventually you start to believe it. So, do you believe you are a piece of shit? I don't get that vibe from you.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> strayfire said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think women are complicated. Just recongnise they're just human beings. Difference is always exaggerated.
> ...


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

sraddatz said:


> We are on the same page, my brother. I was once like you. I hated it. I felt like a door mat a lot of the time. I was dying to put myself out there. You might be, too.


There's a fine line between being a doormat and being a kind considerate person.

It comes with experience.



Morfinyon said:


> Yee ;x
> My mum still gives me angry phone calls and literally calls me a worthless piece of shit and that I need to sleep around with girls or else I'm a loser


I would have made a sarcastic quip about why getting an STD was so important. 

Horrifically inappropriate comeback, I know. 



sraddatz said:


> My mom asked me if I was gay once. I said "no, I'm just a loser".


No, you aren't. You should never benchmark your worth against how many women you've slept with or your relationship status. 

Learn to love you.


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

I think it might be important to point out some cultural differences. I'm an American. We are a tough and extremely competitive society. It might be more forgiving where you are.


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Since you use the "s" in realize, I would assume the UK.


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

sraddatz said:


> Are you kidding me?! I'd rather try to take a course in molecular physics than try to figure out women. They come from an entirely different perspective. Especially in my house, where I'm the strict rational, and she's a total free spirit. It's not true for all, but the emotional needs for women go way beyond my understanding.


If you mystify women like that you're not going to get anywhere. There are both rational women and emotional men in the world. 

In reality, people are neither entirely dominated by rationality or emotions. 

Some mixture of the two.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> I think it might be important to point out some cultural differences. I'm an American. We are a tough and extremely competitive society. It might be more forgiving where you are.


I live in Germany.
Our society is rather competitive as well, but much more considerate imo


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

sraddatz said:


> I think it might be important to point out some cultural differences. I'm an American. We are a tough and extremely competitive society. It might be more forgiving where you are.


Australian. New Zelander. Legal British passport holder (never been, but you can imagine me with a sexy British voice).

I think it's a difference in indivdual philosophy, to be honest.


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Morfinyon said:


> I live in Germany.
> Our society is rather competitive as well, but much more considerate imo


My impression of German culture is that it's very regimented, almost legalistic. Social norms are taken very seriously. I hear German women are very liberated sexually, though. Sadly, that's not your experience. 

Side note: German beer is the greatest! My family comes from around Berlin. They left in 1866.


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

strayfire said:


> Australian. New Zelander. Legal British passport holder (never been, but you can imagine me with a sexy British voice).
> 
> I think it's a difference in indivdual philosophy, to be honest.


I agree that were all individuals, but it's hard to ignore cultural influence. I would be a much different person if I were in western Europe.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> My impression of German culture is that it's very regimented, almost legalistic. Social norms are taken very seriously. I hear German women are very liberated sexually, though. Sadly, that's not your experience.
> 
> Side note: German beer is the greatest! My family comes from around Berlin. They left in 1866.


yea german beer is the best :3
And actually, a lot of younger German people are very rebellious and free-thinkers. Also education is held in a righer regard over here from what I've experienced.
But all that only has an effect on people, it doesn't define them


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

strayfire said:


> Just not on all matters.
> 
> It's so much better to just remian friends. Ending a friendship just like that is a very childish way to find love. I can understand why someone would choose to do so, and sometimes that is the best case but what is often not considered is that these potential crushes are great for helping you find love.
> 
> As close friends they can be some of the closest and best friends in your life. Throwing away friends like that might land you a bad reputation or just a lost opportunity to make friends! c:




Friendzoning yourself is no way to deal with people you're attracted to.
If I fall for someone, I'm not going to let myself be their friend. That's the path that leads you to starting threads like this.


Honestly, if I wanted strictly platonic companionship, I'd get a dog.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Friendzoning yourself is no way to deal with people you're attracted to.
> If I fall for someone, I'm not going to let myself be their friend. That's the path that leads you to starting threads like this.
> 
> 
> Honestly, if I wanted strictly platonic companionship, I'd get a dog.


My best friend is a girl that I was once in love with. And its the best friendship I could've ever wished for


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

Cheveyo said:


> Friendzoning yourself is no way to deal with people you're attracted to.
> If I fall for someone, I'm not going to let myself be their friend. That's the path that leads you to starting threads like this.
> 
> 
> Honestly, if I wanted strictly platonic companionship, I'd get a dog.


It's more like: If you fail to turn a friendship into a relationship you might as well keep the friendship. 

Unless it's particularly hurtful.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

sraddatz said:


> Are you kidding me?! I'd rather try to take a course in molecular physics than try to figure out women. They come from an entirely different perspective. Especially in my house, where I'm the strict rational, and she's a total free spirit. It's not true for all, but the emotional needs for women go way beyond my understanding.




Emotions are irrational. Anyone who relies entirely on emotions to deal with the world around them will thus be irrational. Being irrational is not the same as being complicated. Being irrational is what people call being difficult.


Most young Women don't know what they want, because understanding what they want would require admitting faults within themselves. Most people do not want to do this. EVER. It requires that you completely deconstruct yourself. It's scary and painful.





Learn to like yourself. Try to understand yourself. Let other people be however they want. Do not try to empathize and mirror their irrationality. Deal with them like you would deal with them, not how you think they want you to deal with them.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Morfinyon said:


> My best friend is a girl that I was once in love with. And its the best friendship I could've ever wished for



Good for you.
The person I quoted was saying you should never have taken that step into having a relationship. In other words, you should have stayed friends and let the person you're with go date other people.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

strayfire said:


> It's more like: If you fail to turn a friendship into a relationship you might as well keep the friendship.
> 
> Unless it's particularly hurtful.



Why would you want to be just friends with someone you desire?
Are you a masochist?


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Good for you.
> The person I quoted was saying you should never have taken that step into having a relationship. In other words, you should have stayed friends and let the person you're with go date other people.


huh? What are you talking about?


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Morfinyon said:


> huh? What are you talking about?


_"Just not on all matters.

It's so much better to just remian friends. Ending a friendship just like that is a very childish way to find love. I can understand why someone would choose to do so, and sometimes that is the best case but what is often not considered is that these potential crushes are great for helping you find love. 

As close friends they can be some of the closest and best friends in your life. Throwing away friends like that might land you a bad reputation or just a lost opportunity to make friends! c:"_


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> _"Just not on all matters.
> 
> It's so much better to just remian friends. Ending a friendship just like that is a very childish way to find love. I can understand why someone would choose to do so, and sometimes that is the best case but what is often not considered is that these potential crushes are great for helping you find love.
> 
> As close friends they can be some of the closest and best friends in your life. Throwing away friends like that might land you a bad reputation or just a lost opportunity to make friends! c:"_


yea I agree with that statement.
Like I said, my best friend is a girl I was once in (unrequited) love with. No regrets


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Morfinyon said:


> yea I agree with that statement.
> Like I said, my best friend is a girl I was once in (unrequited) love with. No regrets


Oh, I read that completely backwards.


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

Cheveyo said:


> Emotions are irrational. Anyone who relies entirely on emotions to deal with the world around them will thus be irrational. Being irrational is not the same as being complicated. Being irrational is what people call being difficult.


Tell me when you find a human being with perfect rationality. 

You will invarably need to deal with irrationality.



Cheveyo said:


> Good for you.
> The person I quoted was saying you should never have taken that step into having a relationship. In other words, you should have stayed friends and let the person you're with go date other people.


My post was quoting your post that was saying you should just abandon the people who refuse to have a relationship with you. 

If they reject you, you should still try to remain friends. That's all. 

Crushes who reject your advance from friendship to relationship can end up as very close friends.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Oh, I read that completely backwards.


It happens owo. My relationship started out as dating


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Morfinyon said:


> It happens owo. My relationship started out as dating


How did you make that connection to start dating? Let's go there.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> How did you make that connection to start dating? Let's go there.


uhh she kinda hit on me in a really obvious way so I just asked her out?


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Have you asked her for advice? Does she have friends?


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> Have you asked her for advice? Does she have friends?


asked her for advice on what?


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

How to pick up and talk to women.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> How to pick up and talk to women.


not really?


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

Could be a great resource. She'll definitely know what's most attractive about you!


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## Strayfire (Jun 26, 2010)

sraddatz said:


> Could be a great resource. She'll definitely know what's most attractive about you!


He's already in a relationship?


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## sraddatz (Nov 7, 2009)

strayfire said:


> He's already in a relationship?


Friend.


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## Morfy (Dec 3, 2013)

sraddatz said:


> Friend.


Why would I ask my friend though?
Im confused


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