# Help an NF teach SPs



## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Hi everybody. I'm student teaching (4th grade) in the fall, and am kicking around the idea of differentiating my teaching towards, among other things, MBTI. I bought a book about coaching teachers that talks about MI (multiple intelligence) and MBTI, and I learned something startling. At one alternative high school (students who dropped out of traditional high school) that the author worked at, 90% were of the SP temperament. Also the ranks of teachers are underrepresented by SPs.

I'd really like to know if there are common complaints or suggestions from SPs on how to teach them better. I have a few ideas from my research, but would love to hear additional comments from actual SPs. 

What I've seen so far:

SPs (Sensors in general): like real-world tie-ins to academic subjects. For example, if we're talking about simple machines, we better talk about applications like pulley systems, see-saws, axes, things like that. 

Perceivers: less apt to plan out projects in advance, better at being spontaneous. I can't promise to run a Montessori classroom on the side, but I can try to come halfway. If a series of lessons can be done in any order, I can try to let students have a choice in the matter.

SPs: Facts, then answers. 

SPs like competition. I'm not looking to make everything a competition, but certain activities can use friendly competition as an additional motivator. One of my favorite activities in high school was to divide students into groups and have a jeopardy-style competition for extra credit. I don't know if I'd offer extra credit, but some kind of trivial symbolic reward. 

I'd really like feedback. For everybody who had a terrible time in school; consider this a forum to vent to somebody who's listening and wants to do better .


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

Hey @bigstupidgrin
As an SP in the classroom, I was very fidgety. Real-world applications are important, but so is getting up and _doing_ stuff. Talking wasn't enough for me. We're talking about simple machines? I paid attention if I was allowed to play with pulleys; build our own 'machines' and explain what they do. It's not so much about 'what is reality' so much as it is making theory reality--something tangible that can manifest itself well in a kinesthetic learner's mid. 

I loooooved competitions. Definitely recommend that. 

Anyway, I guess just get messy. Get real. I have fairly well-developed Ni and as a kid, I really loved reading, theatre, writing, literature. It was a way for me to get in touch with my internal intuition and bring it forth in a world that I just simply did not want to share it with; remember that within every Se user--especially introverted Se-users--there's certainly some intuition--teach them how to access it in a way that makes them feel comfortable. I asked _tons_ of questions as a student {and still do} in order to understand what my teacher was trying to teach--simply because I had to synthesize the information and translate it into something I could understand. 

My younger cousin, an ESTP, does well with most things as long as he's committed to doing well--and as long as he supplements his studies with athletics. If we sit around too long, we get bored. And if we get bored, we just don't care.


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

@heartofpompeii Funny you mention the penchant for questions. Intuitive types, according the book I'm reading, are often the students who _don't_ ask questions until after the lesson or halfway into an activity. Which to teachers appears like they weren't listening...


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## Acadia (Mar 20, 2014)

bigstupidgrin said:


> @heartofpompeii Funny you mention the penchant for questions. Intuitive types, according the book I'm reading, are often the students who _don't_ ask questions until after the lesson or halfway into an activity. Which to teachers appears like they weren't listening...


Hah! I wouldn't have guessed that, but somehow it makes sense


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Anybody else? Would love to hear stories of how SPs went through education.


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

Interactive was always where I excelled. 

Being realistic of course there are assignments that need to ensure the child is getting the info. 

I think the trick with an SP tho is making them forget they are learning. 

I was in alternative learning center in summer & night school because I never did homework and later dropped out. (I had some other issues going on that I do not think had anything to do with SP-but SP probably did not help that). 

You can do skits and stuff tho like making skits for everyone to play out reading the info making it fun and light so they are interactive and learning. Less homework more hands on learning. An odd comment for me to say as I do not usually believe in affirmation, but I think a child SP really needs their intelligence reaffirmed to them & praise to build confidence telling them their strengths. You could literally do stretches having everyone go thru doing q n a of a chapter.

Emphasizing bullet points. Properly teaching them how to study to retain the most knowledge in possibly a short cutted version. Show them how to study and retain that knowledge tho.

Hope it goes well, if it does I hope you go to work shops and share your techniques with other educators.


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## Tucken (Dec 13, 2009)

bigstupidgrin said:


> I'd really like feedback. For everybody who had a terrible time in school; consider this a forum to vent to somebody who's listening and wants to do better .


well then. I do not think it will be of much benefit to you, but here it goes.

School was a prison sentence I never signed up for. I will never forgive these people, this society that is so cruel. Education is evil, it has made people insensitive and stupid. 

What is important cannot be taught, what is worthwhile is mysterious, what is educated is unenlightened. 

Coachman and Horse(head and gut-centre). Mind of the modern and the old. Two dimensions of the human being, and all you need to know. 3 kinds of people, two kinds of minds -and everyone is a scientist. 

p.s. I did good for as long as I could give a damn about it, and competition with friends and peers and myself was still motivating me to do better.


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## zynthaxx (Aug 12, 2009)

One important thing to remember, of course, is that the SP spectrum is _wide_. What makes things interesting for me could probably cause an ESFP to gnaw off their left leg, and vice versa.


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## Fleetfoot (May 9, 2011)

Personally I always learned best with hands-on education. Give an SP something to do and we will learn. Make us do anything for too long or have us do something monotonous and we'll find something else to do, like start a food fight or bring in silly string.


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## sodden (Jul 20, 2009)

This is something I'm also very much interested in. I have an ISFP 9w8 kid, and I can really struggle with helping him with schoolwork. He had Language Arts homework last night that I could have cranked out in five minutes at his age (the assignment was write a page about the things you wonder about) and it took him three hours. I especially feel for SP kids these days because there are so many distractions (ie screens). If you're someone who's attracted to the bright and shiny it's really hard to focus. (Not that I don't have issues with getting distracted, also. Structured school situations aren't exactly happy shiny dreamland for INFPs, either. But being a language person, I managed ok.)

Fortunately, at least, his LA teacher is an INFP, so he started out the year with all of these multiple intelligence and personality tests. My kid came out kinesthetic and visual- no surprises there. He's super coordinated, a talented artist, really good at video games. His favorite classes are PE and Art- and social studies when they study wars and so get to watch videos with a lot of action in them. But school, as a whole, is hard.

I very much agree hands on is the way to go with SPs- but how do you teach subjects, like English, in a hands on way? How do you get a kid to write something without it being torture? (I should add that he used to love writing comic books. He's only interested in books with pictures. So it would be nice if teachers would be more open to that...)



EDIT: I'd like to add that I wonder if this is less about SPs and more about multiple intelligences. I know SPs who are avid readers and prolific writers.


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## Hamster-Powered (Apr 26, 2014)

What topics are you going to be teaching? Are you obligated to abide by a given lesson structure? I agree with what's been said so far but the suggestions seem nebulous. I imagine you're looking more for specifics and ideas for implementation.


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Hamster-Powered said:


> What topics are you going to be teaching? Are you obligated to abide by a given lesson structure? I agree with what's been said so far but the suggestions seem nebulous. I imagine you're looking more for specifics and ideas for implementation.


I'm working in a fourth grade classroom this year, and hoping to make that (3rd-5th) my range. We have a set curriculum as far as what we should be teaching when, and some help as far as materials but those are optional. _How_ we teach is pretty flexible. 

Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe the real question is how to teach to Se. Most classrooms (and schools) are going to be Si-focused, or maybe Ne depending on the teacher.


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## Hamster-Powered (Apr 26, 2014)

bigstupidgrin said:


> We have a set curriculum as far as what we should be teaching when, and some help as far as materials but those are optional. _How_ we teach is pretty flexible.


Does this mean that you will be covering math, English and a host of other subjects? My memories of the first 6 grades blur together so I don't know if I had individual teachers for subjects or if I had just one teacher for all of them. This is the point at which multiplication is taught, yes? I remember informally competing with classmates to complete multiplication sheets until it was clear that I couldn't catch up to certain peers. I think the teacher wasn't too bothered by my apathy because I had already done more than the minimum amount of work. I'm not sure what would have happened if I reached my boredom point before that. Perhaps this is a situation where individual rewards/benchmarks for completing things would be better than a group approach because each student still has something to gain and each can decide how much extra effort to expend. Now that I think about it, this reward system is used extensively in World of Warcraft...

I have no recollection of English classes but I had mixed feelings about it - I liked how prefixes/suffixes could modify words (functional) but I despised grammar (an arbitrary relic of past habits). I _still_ have no idea what infinitive, past participle, present participle, etc mean. I managed by simply emulated the sentence structure of things I read.



bigstupidgrin said:


> Now that I'm thinking about it, maybe the real question is how to teach to Se. Most classrooms (and schools) are going to be Si-focused, or maybe Ne depending on the teacher.


I can see how Si is relevant for teachers (traditional methodology etc) but not students. Even if a student favors Si you're aiming to teach in their formative period so I don't think there would be a lot for their Si to latch on to. Perhaps I misunderstand your statement.


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## bigstupidgrin (Sep 26, 2014)

Hamster-Powered said:


> Does this mean that you will be covering math, English and a host of other subjects? My memories of the first 6 grades blur together so I don't know if I had individual teachers for subjects or if I had just one teacher for all of them. This is the point at which multiplication is taught, yes? I remember informally competing with classmates to complete multiplication sheets until it was clear that I couldn't catch up to certain peers. I think the teacher wasn't too bothered by my apathy because I had already done more than the minimum amount of work. I'm not sure what would have happened if I reached my boredom point before that. Perhaps this is a situation where individual rewards/benchmarks for completing things would be better than a group approach because each student still has something to gain and each can decide how much extra effort to expend. Now that I think about it, this reward system is used extensively in World of Warcraft...
> 
> I have no recollection of English classes but I had mixed feelings about it - I liked how prefixes/suffixes could modify words (functional) but I despised grammar (an arbitrary relic of past habits). I _still_ have no idea what infinitive, past participle, present participle, etc mean. I managed by simply emulated the sentence structure of things I read.
> 
> ...


Sorry about the confusion . 4th grade is all subjects. Multiplication starts in 3rd grade, but we'll be running multi-digit multiplication in 4th. We do run the multiplication table memorization tests that I think you were alluding to, my co-teacher gives them our in-class currency or candy for people who complete each sheet in time. We're actually doing prefixes/suffixes right now, and yeah nobody likes grammar . If I had my way we'd just write, maybe make a student style guide, but mostly learn by making mistakes, but oh well. 

When I say Si I just mean rote memorization, everything building on past memories and connections. My co-teacher is Si-dom, and it especially shows in her approach to things. It's very predictable, and quiet. Se (as far as I know it) is more about in-the-moment observations, using the five senses.


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## yoiyoi (Sep 11, 2015)

I'm not sure of my type, but I think it's SP. I always liked the basics of theories laid out so I could think about them a bit, and then have them explained in greater detail through discussion or debate. Sometimes the real-world examples would help, but then it became a paradox of "why are you showing it to me when I already get it?" and "when are we going to use this already?" So really, the best thing you could do (in my opinion) is put an emphasis on the future (Ni) and the multiple uses of the parts inside the things (Ne), because that's where SPs are the weakest.


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## Hamster-Powered (Apr 26, 2014)

bigstupidgrin said:


> When I say Si I just mean rote memorization, everything building on past memories and connections. My co-teacher is Si-dom, and it especially shows in her approach to things. It's very predictable, and quiet. Se (as far as I know it) is more about in-the-moment observations, using the five senses.


Aaaah I see. So you see Si as a vehicle for retaining lessons. I never considered that. If you want to leverage Se I think it'd work best as the payoff to a lesson. For example, a 12:1 ratio of vinegar to baking soda is supposedly optimal for volcanoes. If you can bottle up the CO2 produced in the chemical reaction, the pressurized gas could power a variety of things. Perhaps as propulsion for low-power pinewood dragsters or as water pressure in a firehose for putting out imaginary fires. By varying the sizes of the dragsters or the distance to the fire, you force kids to apply the lessons to find the most fun result. 

In warm weather you could use the above approach to make these freaking awesome giant bubbles (instructions for the rods here). Check out the other videos by NightHawkInLight for ideas. Some aren't remotely appropriate for kids (how pick locks, make an upright noose trap, make micro-flamethrower from an orange, etc) but others could be adapted for lessons. Perhaps make a batsignal to introduce kids to optics, put a petri dish on a speaker to demonstrate vibration and soundwaves, make a Paper circuits, lava lamp, cheap magnetic version of Star Wars' BB-8.


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