# Relationship with a Type 9;; Advice Needed



## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

O.k.

So, I wrestled with where to post this forum post, as well as whether to post it. I considered the Relationship forum area of PerC, but wanted an Enneagram slant. I also considered placing this in the Type 9 forum area of PerC, but wanted feedback and perspective from as many different Enneagram types as I could garner. So, here it goes (I made the best choice I could).

As some of you know, I just made a sizable move across the country with my husband. He just finished graduate school, and has begun a new job. Everything has been really amazing, and I'm so thankful for the opportunity. This job (along with the finishing of graduate school) has placed us in a _much_ better position than prior.

However, we've only been moved about a week and a half, and my husband has been incredibly grumpy with emotional/ aggressive outbursts. I want to view this transition as the adventure it is, and be able to share in the excitement with him (have a "partner in crime" to experience this wonderful experience with). But he seems to constantly be anxious, negative, hyper-vigillant, and increasingly throwing emotional temper-tantrum outbursts.

Our marriage has had issues almost since we met (we both come from a broken home background), but I largely have worked on myself since childhood, and he more or less began seriously committing to working on himself about a year and a half ago. His angry outbursts use to be more of an issue, but for the last past 9 months or so, he mostly seemed to have them under control. I know what you might be thinking, this doesn't sound like a Type 9 (or at least some of you might) - - but I promise you, he is a Type 9 (with an incredibly strong Type 6 fix, second in his Tritype, and an 8-wing). 

But lately, he's been exploding on me, saying that I "nitpick" too much, and complain to him too much, and that he cannot constantly listen to me vent or be my counselor (when the issues pertain to him specifically). This use to be a common rephrase of his, but for those 9 months, it seemed to go away. I *do* have a strong Type 1 fix, and have a tendency to want to improve things (I do not deny this). But the problem is, I have increasingly (since this was a complaint 6 years ago) minimized what I share with him. He left 8 things out this morning, I try to only discuss 2 of those things with him (as calmly as possible), and so on and so forth. Frankly, this downsizing of my communication of issues with him, has been hard for me, and I feel like I've stifled myself as much as I can (I'm the type of person who needs to feel free to communicate how and what I feel and think). I am getting incredibly frustrated with his outbursts that continually ruin what (in my mind) should be an exciting and enjoyable adventure and time in our lives. I also am sick of hearing that I need to keep silencing myself (anymore, and I basically would not be discussing the issues with him at all / bent myself into someone I'm completely not).

Even if he was healthy, I would probably still have a few things to say (I'm just the type of person who values constant improvement). I've gotten to the end of my rope with what I can change for him, and it just never seems to be enough. Now that he has a stable job, we have the financial means to seek out counseling (and we will be doing that as soon as possible), however, I could just really use some advice and different perspectives. Enneagram insights, relationship advice, etc.. .

I know this was long winded, but I really appreciate those who took the time to read it. & I'm even more grateful to those of you who choose to respond. I seriously appreciate it, and I've really enjoyed getting to know everyone on this forum. I look forward to your responses!

Please and Thank You!


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

All I can do is make some observations about what you describe and how I see the Enneagram types might be playing into it. So, take what you want from it.



o0india0o said:


> However, we've only been moved about a week and a half, and my husband has been incredibly grumpy with emotional/ aggressive outbursts. I want to view this transition as the adventure it is, and be able to share in the excitement with him (have a "partner in crime" to experience this wonderful experience with). But he seems to constantly be anxious, negative, hyper-vigillant, and increasingly throwing emotional temper-tantrum outbursts.


It sounds like you want to make this into a type 7 adventure. It doesn't sound like that's where he's at though. Maybe talk about what he's going through instead of focusing on what you want. If I was feeling that way and the type 7 energy was trying to push me in another direction then I'd probably be resistant and resentful that I wasn't being heard or acknowledged. Type 9 seems to have a lot to do with both of those things.



o0india0o said:


> But lately, he's been exploding on me, saying that I "nitpick" too much, and complain to him too much, and that he cannot constantly listen to me vent or be my counselor. This use to be a common rephrase of his, but for those 9 months, it seemed to go away. I *do* have a strong Type 1 fix, and have a tendency to want to improve things (I do not deny this). But the problem is, I have increasingly (since this was a complaint 6 years ago) minimized what I share with him.


Sounds like what you share with him is how he needs to improve and how you want things to be. Maybe letting him share with you how he's feeling would open things up (though I don't know if he's in a place where he's willing to do that).



o0india0o said:


> He left 8 things out this morning, I try to only discuss 2 of those things with him (as calmly as possible), and so on and so forth. Frankly, this downsizing of my communication of issues with him, has been hard for me, and I feel like I've stifled myself as much as I can (I'm the type of person who needs to feel free to communicate how and what I feel and think). I am getting incredibly frustrated with his outbursts that continually ruin what (in my mind) should be an exciting and enjoyable adventure and time in our lives. I also am sick of hearing that I need to keep silencing myself (anymore, and I basically would not be discussing the issues with him at all / bent myself into someone I'm completely not).


I can only guess that his outbursts have to do with stress being placed upon him to be a certain way or simply not being able to be himself or be heard. In all that you've said I've not heard anything about his side of things. Ironic that it seems both of you are ruining your type's ideal - type 9 freedom to just be without being forced into what they don't want and type 7 desire for an enjoyable adventure.

There may be something else relating to instinctual stacking going on here as well. The sx-first wants reciprocal communication and involvement but the sp-first often wants to be left alone to do their own thing without demands from others.


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

OutsideTheBox said:


> All I can do is make some observations about what you describe and how I see the Enneagram types might be playing into it. So, take what you want from it.


Thank you so much for responding! I'd say you have some _incredibly_ accurate observations! Very perceptive of you;; and I appreciate your feedback!



> It sounds like you want to make this into a type 7 adventure. It doesn't sound like that's where he's at though. Maybe talk about what he's going through instead of focusing on what you want. If I was feeling that way and the type 7 energy was trying to push me in another direction then I'd probably be resistant and resentful that I wasn't being heard or acknowledged. Type 9 seems to have a lot to do with both of those things.


This is spot on! I *do* think I need to try to have a conversation with him about what he's experiencing about the move (though, I sometimes wish he would come to me occasionally if he needed to express himself). We came from such a low-point, that I was determined (and hell bent) on enjoying this move - - but I recognize I may need to reign that in a bit. I think that is good advice though, and will try to inquire more about his experience pertaining to the move - - I'm not sure how to remove pressure about having a "good time", aside from just not being around him.. . (that bit will take some more thought I think).



> Sounds like what you share with him is how he needs to improve and how you want things to be. Maybe letting him share with you how he's feeling would open things up (though I don't know if he's in a place where he's willing to do that).


What I share with him _is_ how he needs to improve (I definitely don't deny this or stick my head in the sand about my tendencies and mannerisms). I *do* understand how this could be hard, but frankly, sometimes it's hard for me to live with someone so unhealthy all the time (this is not aimed aggressively at you - - just explaining my feelings about the situation). It is hard for me to balance those two things (& sometimes I feel like I'm the only one actively trying -in any sort of capacity- to balance or improve those bits). I recognize that getting constant feedback and critiques could be difficult, that's why I have tried to temper this as much as possible over the years. But it just feels like he won't be happy until I'm silent (and I'm the type of person who needs to jabber on about anything and everything;; so it's been incredibly difficult for me). I think perhaps, it's possible that what he needs is not my silence, but something else, but he can never seem to articulate these things to me (he has a hard time knowing what he's feeling, what he wants, what he needs, or even why he's angry). 

He is willing to talk (until he gets frustrated and shuts down), but many times, they are not fully flushed out thoughts, that sometimes are not even correct (i.e. he says he's mad that I'm nitpicking, and after exploding, redacts that and says it has to do with stress and not me, etc.. .). It is a frustrating process for me. I think _how_ I am listening is a problem too;; not wrong or unhealthy in any way, just different from what he wants. He doesn't seem to know what he wants, he just seems really articulate about what makes him angry (although, sometimes that's even unclear). Which is frustrating for me, because I am willing to work as a team, I just don't understand what the problem is or how he wants me to handle things.



> *I can only guess that his outbursts have to do with stress being placed upon him to be a certain way or simply not being able to be himself or be heard.* In all that you've said I've not heard anything about his side of things. Ironic that it seems both of you are ruining your type's ideal - type 9 freedom to just be without being forced into what they don't want and type 7 desire for an enjoyable adventure.


I think you are especially correct about the bit I *bolded* in the quote above. The problem is, I don't understand _how_ to help him feel heard (and he's not sure about that either). It's very frustrating for me. I _want_ to listen and work things out, but even when I listen, he doesn't seem to feel heard. I am very active about addressing issues, and making sure to listen and ask questions, but whatever I'm doing just does not seem to be satisfying him (for reasons he cannot articulate).

As for his side of things.
LOL.
I know. 
I have given you all the details I understand (and I've had, many, many, many conversations with him!). You know about as much as I know (and not for a lack of trying). He explodes and says that I nitpick too much. I try to address this by nitpicking less and increasing the appreciation and compliments I give. This works for some time, and then he explodes, I try to actively listen and address his concerns, and round and round we go. Now, I'm at the point, where I cannot tell him any less. He never has any suggestions or ideas about what he wants (other than for me to stop whatever is irritating him), and I feel like I'm waiting for the next bomb to drop, and becoming more and more stifled, exhausted, and stressed - - jumping around, trying to address and solve things.



> There may be something else relating to instinctual stacking going on here as well. The sx-first wants reciprocal communication and involvement but the sp-first often wants to be left alone to do their own thing without demands from others.


That's really interesting that you picked up on this as well. He _is_ an SP-dom (we're unsure of his secondary instinctual variant), and I *am* SX-dom (again, very perceptive & impressive observation!). I *do* want reciprocal communication - - I want to work as a team - - I'm not sure what in the heck he wants though.. . perhaps it's what you say, though I think if I posited that to him, he would deny the idea (not saying you're wrong though; just that I don't know).

Thank you again for your feedback and insight! I appreciate it, and it's mucho, mucho, helpful! 
It has given me much food for thought!


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## periwinklepromise (Jan 26, 2015)

I don't want to make it seem like we should place all the blame on your husband, but in my experience, this is a bit of a hazard when having relationships with 9s. A big part of their personality is to be self-forgetting! That means very little self-aware, intimate communication because they don't realize a) there is a problem, b) they're involved, or c) what they did to co-create this problem and why. Reactivity without insight into the reasons why (like a 9w8 with a 6 fix) can be frustrating.

A lot of this anger and stress could easily be rooted in the move. When a sp-9's life is upended (like in a big move), they have to adjust to an entirely new environment of needs to accommodate, and this is super stressful. The criticisms may just be adding to the workload, and therefore adding to the stress.

With 9s, you have to be so delicate about criticisms. I don't see them as a big deal, but boy, do 9s! My 9 says that's the responsibility of 9s - to realize that criticism does not directly correlate to a threat of abandonment. If your 9 views those conversations in this light, this could be a serious problem. Some love language actions might be helpful.

9s do personal things on their own time, it's the only way they can. You may just need to wait this storm out?


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

periwinklepromise said:


> I don't want to make it seem like we should place all the blame on your husband, but in my experience, this is a bit of a hazard when having relationships with 9s. A big part of their personality is to be self-forgetting! That means very little self-aware, intimate communication because they don't realize a) there is a problem, b) they're involved, or c) what they did to co-create this problem and why. Reactivity without insight into the reasons why (like a 9w8 with a 6 fix) can be frustrating.
> 
> A lot of this anger and stress could easily be rooted in the move. When a sp-9's life is upended (like in a big move), they have to adjust to an entirely new environment of needs to accommodate, and this is super stressful. The criticisms may just be adding to the workload, and therefore adding to the stress.
> 
> ...


I for sure do not want to place all the blame on my husband either. I am aware that I have my own issues and faults.

I think what you said here hit the nail on the head:
_"A lot of this anger and stress could easily be rooted in the move. When a sp-9's life is upended (like in a big move), they have to adjust to an entirely new environment of needs to accommodate, and this is super stressful. The criticisms may just be adding to the workload, and therefore adding to the stress."_

Just a guess, but that would seem to ring very true for the situation when I think about it. It's a very different perspective from my own - - I very much embrace change, and am viewing the situation as an adventure. I wish he would come to me with his issues, but I might have to try to open up a dialogue with him.
I also like the idea of enacting Love Language stuff, but unfortunately, he cannot seem to decide on which one is for him. So, I tend to try to just do them all. :laughing:

& That is a big problem in our relationship (his sensitivity to "criticism" - - because not all of it is even _criticism_, but he tends to view many different categories of comments as such!). I'm just the type of person who needs to be able to speak freely. I've never been told I'm mean, but I am direct (and occasionally blunt when flustered or upset). He seemed to be doing better with my speaking style (right as I was about to loosen my grip a little), but I do think you are right about the move exacerbating the situation.

I think waiting out the storm is probably the best advice anyone could give me. I tend to be, go, go, go, go! If there is a problem, I want to address it and fix it. If he says I'm doing something wrong, I instantly take it personal and serious (which can be very disorienting and upsetting when he takes it back like, "j/k"). I think I just need to learn to take what he says in frustration with a grain of salt, until he figures out what's really bothering him (most of the time, after he's riled me up, we find it is something completely different). It's irritating because I usually say what I mean and mean what I say. I could never understand thinking I was upset about one thing, only to find later on that it was something completely different (frequently). But I *do* understand that he does this.. .so I just have to stop falling for it I guess, (lol).

I think giving him space might help - - and just sort of waiting out his startle response to the move (similar to our cats). :laughing:


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

so he needs to work no himself? 

if only he'd change a bit, or grow a bit, you would be happier?

how's that working out for you?


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## enneathusiast (Dec 15, 2012)

o0india0o said:


> He doesn't seem to know what he wants...


Type 9 has difficulty knowing what they want. They tend to know better what they don't want. To ask an open-ended question of _what do you want_ will likely not get the response you'd like. It might be better to give type 9 a set of options and decide between those. I guess you could use a series of those to narrow down something broad (e.g., A, B, or C - chooses B then a follow up D, E, or F derived from that first choice - I imagine type 7 would be good at generating those linked sets of choices but you may have to be careful about trying to steer it where you want it to go instead of something genuine for him).


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

drmiller100 said:


> so he needs to work no himself?
> 
> if only he'd change a bit, or grow a bit, you would be happier?
> 
> how's that working out for you?


I know this was sarcastic (I find you irritating), but - - 
It's actually working quite well for me (Thank you very much!). :tongue:

It is childish to expect that change is not sometimes necessary (especially in a marriage). If a partner is in the unhealthy levels, it is reasonable to expect change for the wellbeing and safety of those in said relationship.

Additionally, my husband and I are both the types who want to be challenged, and believe in always growing (and having moral ideals that we reach for).

It may not be for everyone. But I believe it's true about things that are fundamental to a person - - you cannot "change" who a person is at a basic level, nor would that be healthy or enriching for anyone involved. However, some change is necessary and most definitely healthy. I expect to be challenged in just the same way for years to come.

Personal preference I guess.


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

I want to give a shout-out and "Thanks" to @OutsideTheBox and @periwinklepromise !

I talked to my husband when he came home from work yesterday, about the ideas you mentioned. At first he denied struggling with the move, saying it was "fine". But, when I discussed your comments and ideas about the situation more, he admitted and opened up about struggling with the change (he has a hard time admitting feelings that he thinks are "weak", due to having to always be the "strong" one in the family as a child - - he tends to take the approach of trying to ignore these feelings, which is of course something he's working on). 

Now that he's got a little self-awareness about what is stressing him out, he's going to try to find healthier coping mechanisms to help himself deal with the transition better. & Even though it's hard for me, we're going to slow down the adventure part a bit (though we came up with the idea of signing me up for some classes, to help bring more excitement to my life, while we work on bringing more stability to his). 

I know it might sound silly, but sometimes it's hard to understand someone else's perspective (especially when _they_ don't even understand their own perspective :laughing: ). So, brainstorming and giving me your observations really helped guys! Thank you so much!


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## drmiller100 (Dec 3, 2011)

o0india0o said:


> I (I find you irritating), but - -
> .


Thanks for telling me. I'll try to avoid you in the future.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

I think a lot of this goes back to a couple things I've noted about 9's, beginning with the fact they are an anger type like 8 and 1. Specifically, they become angry when their inner peace is threatened, which could certainly be a result of your cross country move. It isn't mentioned frequently, but many 9's (especially 9w1) like the other Gut types, cherish their space and ability "to be." If they don't want to do something, they likely won't. The angry push against outer environment you see more actively in 8's and 1's manifests for 9's by a kind of "just _make _me move" brand of stubbornness, along with what you see of their wing. If they're forced to move, it can come out as having a bad attitude, edginess, etc. It isn't throw stuff at the wall anger, or yell and criticize explosion anger, but it's definitely testy and not fun to be around so I understand where you're coming from. Just know, that 9's do NOT like to be pushed out of their inertia willy nilly. A 7 may find this exhilarating - a 9 would likely not, unless they were doing it to themselves. They cling to their high clouds with anger. 

The way your husband becomes more overtly reactive and edgy reminds me of when 9 goes to 6. I have experiences with 9w8's going to 6, who in particular can come of as aggressive, questioning, and almost pushy along with being basically oblivious to how they are behaving once it's passed. 

It sounds like a lot of the issue is related to your interactions together as well, so I'd recommend looking into some of the Jung theories like socionics too, to complement what you realize motivationally thru enneagram. That theory will tell you more about how certain types process each others' ways of communicating.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Figure said:


> I think a lot of this goes back to a couple things I've noted about 9's, beginning with the fact they are an anger type like 8 and 1. Specifically, they become angry when their inner peace is threatened, which could certainly be a result of your cross country move. It isn't mentioned frequently, but many 9's (especially 9w1) like the other Gut types, cherish their space and ability "to be."


Stupid question perhaps, but what does the ability to "be" mean?


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## Potne Theron (Nov 10, 2013)

Hi @o0india0o, 

So, basically, you are an oral type and he is tactile/kinesthetic. You have different natural ways of communicating. You think talking is the solution, he “thinks” sensing or feeling, listening with his whole body to non verbal cues is important. To do that, time and space are required, as it is a slower process than talking (it has to go up from being felt in the body to the mind, it is a longer path . 

Where you can meet is that you are both doers (with different rhythms, but it is something you have in common). So, you may try to show him what you feel, without talking much and most importantly, you may give him the time to show you what he feels and wants. When you talk to him, use kinesthetic language, such as: “I feel”, etc. and body metaphors. 

What is normal language pace for you may be felt as aggressive submachine gun to him and it will be interpreted as a threat to his inner peace and even as a proof you do not accept and love him as he is.

Blessings


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## cir (Oct 4, 2013)

Shame Spiral said:


> Stupid question perhaps, but what does the ability to "be" mean?


 Imagine a nine as a bowl, and his inner peace as the water inside it. To a nine, "to be" means the water stays still. (Deep down inside, he has an inner three child, and perhaps still water could reflect it.) A nine feels threatened if you throw a rock at the water or if the wind blows too hard, causing the water inside the bowl to ripple. Good god if the nine realizes that the water needs to evaporate, rejoin the atmosphere, and come back down as a form of precipitation!

Generally, average nines would prefer the water to be still and not rippling. When a nine accepts that the water ripples, that nine can go to three. Healthier nines will be able to tell you the allowable/forgivable tolerances of their inner rippling. A healthy nine's "to be" means "to be one" with the entire water cycle.

Unhealthy nines want to preserve the stillness of their inner peace so much that the water inside the bowl freezes into ice, expanding and cracking the bowl.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

@cir
Hm I see. Now I'm curious what metaphors you would use for the other types, but that might be a bit too off-topic. =P


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## stargazing grasshopper (Oct 25, 2013)

o0india0o said:


> As some of you know, I just made a sizable move across the country with my husband. He just finished graduate school, and has begun a new job. Everything has been really amazing, and I'm so thankful for the opportunity. However, we've only been moved about a week and a half, and my husband has been incredibly grumpy with emotional/ aggressive outbursts.


I'm wondering whether the new job & long distance move came about suddenly or was the transition a gradual thing?
I ask because your description "However, we've only been moved about a week and a half, and my husband has been incredibly grumpy with emotional/ aggressive outbursts" kinda reminds me of symptoms of loss & grief.
Just wondering whether you two had to suddenly leave close relationships behind.
If you're unsure of who/what he may have left behind, I'd suggest you begin the conversation. Maybe tell him that you miss friends & want to talk about grievous feelings of loss.
I know it's out of left field but you never know until you explore & discuss the possibilities.





o0india0o said:


> I want to view this transition as the adventure it is, and be able to share in the excitement with him (have a "partner in crime" to experience this wonderful experience with). But he seems to constantly be anxious, negative, hyper-vigillant, and increasingly throwing emotional temper-tantrum outbursts.


Sounds as though you're experiencing the situation as though it's an opportunity to pursue adventure, but he's venting loads of stress. This reminds me of accumulated stress "But lately, he's been exploding on me, saying that I "nitpick" too much, and complain to him too much, and that he cannot constantly listen to me vent or be my counselor"
Have you two discussed whether the new job is what he'd expected it'd be? I wonder how easily he makes new friends & whether he might be experiencing conflict with coworkers or supervisors & bringing the stress home with him.
Have you made new friends yet, do you get out & socialize?
I'm curious whether you sit home all day & then pounce on him with stuff the moment he gets home from work.

Sorry LOL, 
I used to give my SO a hug & kiss after work, then take a shower & have a drink before asking her how her day was.
Maybe the guy just needs a little time to unwind after work.

To be honest, I don't know much of anything & I'm merely throwing out this crap from left field.


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## Maker of helmets (Sep 8, 2014)

@o0india0o

I will steer clear of Enneagram because I do not know enough about it to use it appropriately in this context, I do not believe.

Yesterday I found myself agreeing with some aspects of myself, as I have been, before, in an article on borderline personality disorder.

I believe there will be traits from this disorder represented to a greater or lesser degree within any of us that have residual dysfunctional effects from our upbringing. 

I hope you will not take this differently to how I mean it. I am not saying you need to diagnose your husband with borderline personality disorder. 

However, I think it is always helpful to frame issues in terms of an underlying structure.

Our dysfunctional behaviours, and attitudes, well I believe it is possible to conceive them as our self taking the path of least resistance, given the variables in our experience.

The end of the article I read said this - 



> This kind of abandonment is so powerful that it leaves the child feeling, "I will have to survive and grow up by myself, without your support, encouragement, and love." This expectation and demand is too great for the child to live up to. Without a mother, the child tries and tries, but can never live up to the demand, "to do it all by yourself."


Like I said, I believe there could be traits of the borderline personality in all of us with residual dysfunctional effects from our upbringing.

I had a good childhood, however I have still had residual dysfunctional effects from my upbringing and have noticed some of these traits, perhaps most notably over sensitivity to perceived criticism and abandonment, in myself.

Two important things - these matters of mental health always need to be taken sensitively, and also the most important thing, I believe, is to have as much compassion as possible with one another from understanding there is an underlying structure to our dysfunctional behaviour patterns.

I am not a psychologist, however psychologytoday.com has useful articles and advice - on many issues!  I would recommend you also looking there, if you want.


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## Potne Theron (Nov 10, 2013)

Shame Spiral said:


> Stupid question perhaps, but what does the ability to "be" mean?


Yes, stupid question indeed and it's not the first time. You do not think much by yourself, do you? Too lazy, maybe? LOL


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Paralax2000 said:


> Yes, stupid question indeed and it's not the first time. You do not think much by yourself, do you? Too lazy, maybe? LOL




(I don't really know you, but I figure I did something to make you upset and this is some pathetic attempt at getting me back.)


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

Thanks for all the responses everyone! I really appreciate them. I'm going on a weekend adventure!

I'm wet-your-pants excited! (and not in an innuendo sort of way) :tongue:
I'm finally getting to explore the area! 

So, I will respond to comments come Monday. Thank you all again, you're the best!


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## Father of Dragons (May 7, 2012)

Wow @Paralax2000 put the salt away, nobody needs to see that.

As for @o0india0o, I just want to chime in and agree with some of the advice here about being careful about your criticisms. It sounds to me like you are constantly putting him under the microscope, like he is a scientific problem. I personally hate when people probe me in order to solve my problems. I don't like to be in the spotlight, so I have to be in a great mood to be able to accept others criticisms of me. Otherwise, I will reject it outright on the basis that I don't want to hear it. Perhaps not ideally healthy, but that's just how I am. 

It sounds like things are going better, but I think a good idea might be to try to look for patterns in what sets off these "outbursts." This will require some self-awareness, as you will have to be careful and openly question whether something you said or did was a trigger. If, on the other hand he is just raging at random, you might try to reason with him: explain clearly to him that he is overstepping his boundaries and is hurting you with his own issues. I and I think most nines are generally very respectful of personal boundaries. If he sees that he is trampling yours, he might be regretful and more mindful of not doing it.

In general, a lot of nines "heal" with time, lots of personal space, and maybe some productive distractions. However, if you allow him those things and he does not progress, you might want to question the formula and try something new. It's possible to stagnate if ones mind is not focused on making progress. That would require more of a re-evaluation of ones setting and goals. Anyways, good luck and try not to suffocate him!


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

Wow! Thanks for all the outpouring of support and input guys'! 
Things are getting better, but our relationship's issues have not evaporated, and we will of course still be seeking counseling to smooth out any wrinkles. My hubby has simply stopped "hulking out";; which I appreciate. 

Starting with @Father of Dragons

I have tried being careful of my comments in the past, but it's just _too_ stifling for me. It's who I am. As a Type 9 he struggles with constructive feedback (i.e. "criticisms" in his language), but he married me - - I have a strong Type 1 fix (and this is one of the reasons he married me!). He said he knew from a young age he always wanted to challenge himself, and grow. He cannot have it both ways. In fact, I think my years of eggshell walking have largely been unhealthy for me, and un-beneficial to our relationship. I think this quote about SX-dom Type 1's describes me quite well:

*"*_Can feel like relationships are exercises in mutual improvement._*"*

It may not be for everyone, but I don't hide myself in a relationship (I'm quite upfront) - - he knew what he was getting into. :tongue:
I don't ask anything of anyone, that I wouldn't ask of myself.
My father was a Type 1w9, so I _*do*_ understand the difficulties and pitfalls that can arise with this personality trait. & Thus, I do try to temper it a bit and be more "mature" and "wise" and self-aware (though it's a work in progress) - - at the end of the day: this is *me*. I'm not a Type 1 - - so it's not as severe a trait (though I don't mind Type 1's, and enjoy their company for the record).

While my husband _wants_ challenges (his words, not mine), he was raised by an unhealthy Type 2 who applauded everything he did ("criticism" constructive or otherwise) was far and few between, and considered "bad" in his family. He said he saw me as a breath of fresh air;; I think it will continue to be a mediation act, where he learns that criticism can be constructive, and I learn to not blurt out everything that comes to mind (be they good or bad).

That being said, I am full aware that my "feedback", "criticisms", "honesty", or "nitpicking" can be a trigger for him. So, I do need to be more careful when he's struggling. Though he rarely will communicate this to me until it's full-blown explosion level.

I think, as a Type 9, he is fairly respectful with boundaries when calm (*calm* being the key word here). His 8-wing tends to make him a bit bossy and controlling at times, and when he wants something, thinks something needs to be done, or is scared, emotionally overwhelmed or panicking, the "Hulk" comes out. It kind of looks like a Type 6 in a dead sweat panic, but he also tries to take control of the situation at the same time. He doesn't respect anything in these situations, much less can he hear me or comprehend anything I say in these states of mind.

I have noticed that time, personal space, and "productive distractions" are my Type 9's go-to for self-soothing (along with routines and comfortable clothing, and sometimes food). He can get stuck in these patterns though; so it's not without it's risks. 

As for suffocation, that's not so much an issue with him. That was one of my "deal breakers" on my list (after dating the guy before my husband). He was a Type 9 as well, but he needed inordinate amounts of time alone (imo), and I _absolutely_ *hated* it. I was miserable. This quote describes me in relationships:

*"*_I want to be standing right in front of you. I want the air that you breathe to be coming directly out of my mouth. I want to just be passing air back and forth between each other until it's mostly carbon dioxide and we both pass out and die, […]_*"* (Winston from "New Girl")

I'm not as "needy" or "clingy" as a Type 2. But I am looking for that "us against the world" mentality, "partners in crime" relationship. Similar to Ash and Pikachu in Pokemon, or the "Avatar: the Last Airbender" crew. My relationship style can best be described as a puppy. We don't always have to be playing together, but I like for you to be in the same room as me. I want an audience to laugh when I chase my tail. When you come home, I'm _beyond_ excited! & want to tell you *all about* the bug I followed today! 

We don't always have to be "together", sometimes my husband is at work, or he or I am cooking, and the other will be doing something. But this style suits both of us. My husband's last relationship (before me) was with a type 5, and he said he always wanted to be around her more than she wanted to be around him. Admittedly, I think he traded up for the opposite extreme, but he mostly seems to enjoy this (Quality Time is both of our love languages). While I can't really smother him, sometimes I can overwhelm him. That is something I do have to be mindful of when lots of change is happening (because while change energizes me;; it seems to deplete him).

Thank you for responding, I really enjoyed reading and mulling over your feedback. I will truly take it to heart, and contemplate it long beyond my response, so know that it is really appreciated!


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## o0india0o (Mar 17, 2015)

Figure said:


> I think a lot of this goes back to a couple things I've noted about 9's, beginning with the fact they are an anger type like 8 and 1. Specifically, they become angry when their inner peace is threatened, which could certainly be a result of your cross country move. It isn't mentioned frequently, but many 9's (especially 9w1) like the other Gut types, cherish their space and ability "to be." If they don't want to do something, they likely won't. The angry push against outer environment you see more actively in 8's and 1's manifests for 9's by a kind of "just _make _me move" brand of stubbornness, along with what you see of their wing. If they're forced to move, it can come out as having a bad attitude, edginess, etc. It isn't throw stuff at the wall anger, or yell and criticize explosion anger, but it's definitely testy and not fun to be around so I understand where you're coming from. Just know, that 9's do NOT like to be pushed out of their inertia willy nilly. A 7 may find this exhilarating - a 9 would likely not, unless they were doing it to themselves. They cling to their high clouds with anger.
> 
> *The way your husband becomes more overtly reactive and edgy reminds me of when 9 goes to 6. I have experiences with 9w8's going to 6, who in particular can come off as aggressive, questioning, and almost pushy along with being basically oblivious to how they are behaving once it's passed. *
> 
> It sounds like a lot of the issue is related to your interactions together as well, so I'd recommend looking into some of the Jung theories like socionics too, to complement what you realize motivationally thru enneagram. That theory will tell you more about how certain types process each others' ways of communicating.


 @Figure

Yeah, your description (which I bolded above, and will quote below) describes my husband really well - - though he is getting much better about this (& healthier I would assume). You had mentioned this on the "Which Enneagram Types Intimidate You?" forum thread I created, and I don't remember if I had the guts to say that it reminded me of my husband or just a "Type 9 I know". I feel like I'm ratting him out if I discuss problems with others - - I wouldn't want people blabbing about my shortcomings, but sometimes I struggle with feeling like I cannot talk to anyone about my difficulties - - so I decided that an anonymous forum would hopefully not be too.. .I don't know, "revealing".



> *"*_The way your husband becomes more overtly reactive and edgy reminds me of when 9 goes to 6. I have experiences with 9w8's going to 6, who in particular can come off as aggressive, questioning, and almost pushy along with being basically oblivious to how they are behaving once it's passed._*"*


That's what I call his "Hulk mode". It's really difficult to communicate with him or get through to him when he's like that (he's almost completely disassociated or _something_;; just not in control of himself or his emotions, or aware). It's scary and feels a bit dangerous (imo) - - but like I said, he's been doing this a lot less. I guess the move just piled more stress on him than he knows how to deal with in a healthy manner. After I made him more aware of this (when he was calm) he has been working to implement more awareness, address his feelings about the move, and get some exercise in. I don't really know what would help him, and he doesn't ever seem to know either (hence, why I would like to get some counseling). So, hopefully what he's doing helps.

However, when he explodes, it can be a "[…]throw stuff at the wall anger, or yell and criticize explosion anger, […]";; usually more yell and criticize. I think this comes from growing up in a family that was extremely mean with their words, aggressive, and had constant yelling, screaming, and chaos (literally almost 24/7 - - I know, I visited - - and they didn't change their behavior for a visitor…or worse, maybe they did? & that was their "best behavior"? idk). Basically, I hear about nothing, until I hear about _everything_ (much of which may or may not have anything to do with me, but will be aimed at me). It's been happening a lot less, but I definitely feel done with it;; exasperated.

Thanks for the suggestion! I will definitely look into some Jung theories as you suggest. I appreciate the feedback and the time you took to respond to my post!


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## Baerlieber (May 18, 2015)

My friend and I call this Nine Rage. It's very common for people who are conflict avoidant to freak out when they're not feeling good. Pressure cooker syndrome. You don't need tritype theory. Nines look like unhealthy sixes when they aren't doing well. They're anxious and feel like they've lost ground and self. They need to know they can have a safe place to be calm and rest and be themselves. In the meantime you have to take care of yourself and your needs, too. People don't get to treat you poorly just cause they're in a tough spot. Have you genuinely asked yourself lately how YOU are doing and what he can do to help you through this transition?


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## Pelopra (May 21, 2013)

As an overly blunt person myself:

Do you consciously over balance the negative feedback with positive? Thank him several times a day for stuff you appreciate he did, compliment him several times a day on traits of his you admire/like/respect/enjoy? Random texts telling him you like him? Little notes? 

Just take your bluntness and challenge it to notice good things too.

I know he doesn't know his love language but if he's feeling verbally harassed it's highly possible words of affirmation is a need for him.


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