# I'm Sick of the Bias



## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Hello fellow personality enthusiasts,

I have come on this forum twice and you all have been very kind and helpful. I have ended up switching my type twice (first INTP, then ISFP) based on new information learned, but I still keep coming up restless with doubt. 14 years ago in college I typed as INTJ and a little while after that, subsequent tests have said I'm INFP. Logically I want the truth, but I'm afraid that I am emotionally biased. 

I have read at least 50 hours on types and the various cognitive functions. I can't really tell if the thought processes I am using are a particular function, or perhaps the result of a combination of my functions. I have always wanted to be seen as the "smart" and emotionally "deep" person, so I believe I am biased towards intuition. It frustrates me because I do want to resolve this, yet I feel I must be subconsciously choosing my type instead of just allowing it to be whatever it is, despite my desire to be truthful. I've been noticing when I'm using Ni, but I feel like perhaps I'm just cherry picking to support being an intuitive. If I truly am an Ni dominant, I probably wouldn't even be consciously aware I'm using it since it would be so instinctive...right?

I would love for it to be true that I am an intuitive because I love that part of myself. What I believe may be going on is that I'm an ISFP that has been in an Fi-Ni loop and have suppressed my Se my entire life, as opposed to me being an INFJ. And I have also developed my Fe (or possibly it is Fi with values internalized from the external world). 

I like spontaneity. I'm a bit messy. I don't like to plan agendas. 

On the other hand, I've always felt like an alien compared to other kids growing up, was never very active and instead enjoyed intellectual pursuits, and loved to please parents/teachers growing up. I was an obedient child and excellent student. I was not a risk-taker. 

As an adult, I don't see where Se plays a significant part in my life...other than I dance pretty well and LOVE music. 

My GF is a confirmed INFP and I very clearly "see" her Ne working when we have conversations. I love her dearly, however the drawn-out, spiraling conversation style that talks about things that aren't realistic (like making the world peaceful any time soon) seem annoying to me. I like conversations to be more on point when we are discussing things. I usually find talking about people, their feelings, analyzing behaviors, and topics that intrigue me to be more appealing. Lately we have had a great time having a shared interest in psychology, but the spiraling talking style still annoys me. I do see (whether it be dominant or tertiary) how my Ni and her Ne seem in direct contrast and it has caused a lot of problems. She feels I am being closed-minded as my Ni whittles things down to the most likely outcome, where as she is energized by more and more ideas, not excluding them based on likelihood of outcome.

I see that I care much more about what people think and will base my decisions off of how they feel than she does. But I really don't know if I'm an Fi with insecurity, or is it truly Fe? Sometimes I don't always know what I'm feeling, but I have very strong emotions. I know I have strong values, but sometimes I don't always know until a line is crossed what those values are.

I'm perfectionistic, but I think ISFP's and INFJ's feel this way.
I've always felt different and have been called an old soul, but both ISFP's and INFJ's have felt this way.
I love biological and humanistic sciences, which both ISFP's and INFJ's can feel this way.
I'm HSP, which doesn't preclude me from being a Sensor.
I'm frequently mistaken for an extrovert...and the "chameleon" behavior (I've read) is observed in both ISFP's and INFJ's.

I also don't always guess the emotion people are experiencing accurately, which doesn't sound like INFJ's ever have this problem. Although, I admittedly don't have a lot of social experiences to have a good foundational knowledge compared to probably more social people. 

Has anyone else felt like this? I am not happy with ambiguity...and I'm obsessed. My dreams have even been consumed with typology. Any advice for me? Do you think I'm ISFP? ...I'll accept it eventually I'm sure if that is what I am.


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

You have... Dreams about typology? Yikes, you have it BAD. I thought I was troublesome! XD

Anyway, you seem Fi but I'm not sure. If you can fill out a questionnaire that'd be great and help people to type you


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

0. Is there anything that may affect the way you answer the questions? For example, a stressful time, mental illness, medications, special life circumstances? Other useful information includes sex, age, and current state of mind.

I became depressed last year, and I'm going through a stressful situation with my SO since the relationship began to have trouble about 1.5 years ago. I'm going to relationship counseling and taking Welbutrin. I only work on the weekends as a Microbiologist since I quit my full-time job as a systems analyst last June to home-school my two kids. My SO moved in with me at the end of July 2014. So there's been a lot of changes. I'm 36, female, and drinking coffee (so I'm feeling good  )

1. Click on this link: Flickr: Explore! Look at the random photo for about 30 seconds. Copy and paste it here, and write about your impression of it. https://www.flickr.com/photos/thegrizz/22024887026/in/explore-2015-10-09/

I love the stone set against the lush greenery and hills/mountains. This scene inspires my wonder. I chose this picture because it reminds me of the Shire from the Lord of the Rings. I always love the idea of living in a little Hobbit home, complete with round doors, local pub filled with friends, music and laughter. I'd love a world filled with magic.

2. You are with a group of people in a car, heading to a different town to see your favourite band/artist/musician. Suddenly, the car breaks down for an unknown reason in the middle of nowhere. What are your initial thoughts? What are your outward reactions?
I would be soooo disappointed because I would be missing my favorite musician. I don't get to go to many concerts, and so if I was going out, it meant I had to move hell and high water to get a babysitter and logistically arrange everything so that I could go. I would be angry at the circumstances and frustrated. Outwardly I would probably wonder what is going on with the car and voice my frustrations and disappointment, but not vocalize it to the point where I was overly emotional... I may just sulk. If the people around me were extra upset, I usually would be the opposite and try to be the "calm" one. I would try to be the one to come through for me and my friends. I would quickly try to troubleshoot what is going on with the car to see if it is something we can quickly fix to get back on the road. If I couldn't fix it, and nobody else with me could, I would become even more frustrated because my fears about not being able to go would be true. I would then be wondering who would be able to pick us up here in the middle of nowhere. Then I would be a little worried about being in the middle of nowhere because of possible safety issues.

3. You somehow make it to the concert. The driver wants to go to the afterparty that was announced (and assure you they won't drink so they can drive back later). How do you feel about this party? What do you do? I really wouldn't like to go to an afterparty because going to the concert with friends would probably be enough socializing for me. I think I have social anxiety a little too, so I would be worried about all the interactions I would have to do. Since I would be allowed to drink though, I could ease the anxiety a little with alcohol, and the party probably wouldn't be so bad. If all my friends want to go, I would go too. Who knows, I might have fun? Sometimes though when I'm at parties, I feel like the only one not having a good time and ask myself, "why am I here"? I can feel so different and isolated at parties for some reason and for that reason they can end up making me sad. I have such a hard time just "letting go" and enjoying myself.

4. On the drive back, your friends are talking. A friend makes a claim that clashes with your current beliefs. What is your inward reaction? What do you outwardly say? It depends on how good of a friend they are. If I know them well, and I know they're able to hear my point of view without it becoming a heated conflict, I would voice my opinion of the matter. I might also ask them why they believe the way they do. Sometimes if I know the motivations for the reasoning, I may be able to hone in on that and get them to see another perspective...or give them more information to help them see things the way I do. If they are someone that I don't feel safe with though, I probably wouldn't say anything just to keep the peace, but inside I would be bothered. Depending upon the belief in question (how important it is to me), I may decide that it's fine that they believe a different way. I might ask clarifying questions, but not show outwardly judgement.

5. What would you do if you actually saw/experienced something that clashes with your previous beliefs, experiences, and habits?
If it is something like someone hurting someone or an animal, then they and I would have a problem. I do not stand for abuse. I remember at the age of 3 when I went to visit my grandpa (he was a country boy) and he shot a squirrel. I ran out of the house after I saw what he did and was in hysterics... I couldn't believe he hurt the poor squirrel. My mom had to run after me and calm me down. I'm usually a very non-confrontational person, but I do not like people taking advantage of or hurting people/animals that are incapable of helping themselves....I will become enraged. I remember telling the cardio-thoracic surgeon that took the lung out of my other grandpa when I was 17, that I was very upset that he wasn't getting the kind of care that he should be getting. The surgeon then told me "How dare you talk to me like that!" I didn't care who he was because it was my grandpa that was suffering. I still remember the man's name and have a disgusted look on my face every time I see it or think about him. 
I usually try to allow for a lot of individuality with people and their beliefs, and I don't take it personally. Sometimes people annoy me with their habits and if they affect me, I will tolerate it to a point before finally having to tell them about it. I don't want things to get to the point where they'll explode. I will interject my experiences about something if it is different than theirs though just to give more perspective. 

6. What are some of your most important values? How did you come about determining them? How can they change?
I determined the values like the ones shown above based off of what happened and how I felt about them. I was so young, at the age of 3, I'm not sure if it's something I read or watched and internalized? I really am not sure how I got my values most of the time. For example, I cried if I got a 'C' on my report card in 6th grade. I felt like I might get spanked or my parents would be very angry with me. Neither was the case, but that was how I saw it. I was usually a straight 'A' student, so it deeply bothered me. I never wanted to steal or take advantage of someone. When I was a kid I cried after I embarrassed my mom at the store by asking her what "S-H-I-T" spelled..because I knew what it spelled. My mom was a humanitarian, a nurse with so much caring. I think I leaned a lot about how to show people you love them from her. What was odd was although I felt like I was striving to be a moral person growing up, I used to bully certain kids on the playground. I remember thinking that I didn't like them because they were weak and went after them. I was probably scared of the weakness in myself and turned the hatred outwards. I was pretty aggressive up until the age of about 10, where-after I became much more a pacifist. I never got into a fight after 5th grade... I also was extremely homophobic. I knew at the age of about 5 that I was different and wanted to be a boy. I asked God to change me. Of course my behaviors were pretty "masculine" but I never voiced my concerns to my mom. I was so scared when I was an adolescent that I might be gay. I didn't want to be and I basically shut-down my sexuality my entire teen years. I never dated really. I stayed away from people sometimes just because I would fear that I would be attracted to them and I didn't want to feel that way. I ended up being what my parents wanted me to be. I finally had my first boyfriend at the age of 21 and got married when I was 23. That was what I was supposed to do, it made my mom happy, and it meant I wasn't gay!  But that bad feeling inside knew that something wasn't right and I told my fiance before we got married that I felt "different" growing up. That I had wanted to be a boy, not a girl, and I didn't love him like a wife should love a husband, but more like someone loves a family member. It was important to be honest to him once I had started to be more honest with myself. I finally woke up at 23, after I was married unfortunately, and decided that it was ok if I was gay if that is who I truly am. I told my husband and he told me it was okay, i would grow to love him. So i again prayed and tried to be a good person, try to be the dutiful wife. But that just wasn't me and it didn't last. At 29, I no longer could continue living what I felt to be a lie and divorced him. Not just for myself, but so that I could be an example to my children. I didn't want them growing up thinking that what he and I had was what a normal loving relationship was like. I waited for 3 years after that point to get myself together so I could support the kids in the kind of lifestyle that I wanted them to have before moving out, but living in that situation was like the life was being sucked out of me. It seems that I get my values from a mixture of myself, and society... I'm not sure. The reason I tell the story above is because it was a very significant moral dilemma in my life and I thought it may help to decipher Fi from Fe. My values can change after I learn more information about something. Sometimes seeing a different perspective that I hadn't thought of before will change my values. When I was a kid I loved going to the circus...but I haven't visited one since I was a kid because I learned they use cruel training techniques. I also have come to believe that animals should not be kept in such a way...especially animals like lions or elephants. 

7. a) What about your personality most distinguishes you from everyone else? b) If you could change one thing about you personality, what would it be? Why? I feel like I'm never quite satisfied with things at the moment, I'm always dreaming of what's coming tomorrow.... Even when I was a kid, I couldn't just enjoy myself. I was always longing for what things were "going to be like" instead of the way they actually were. I also knew from an early age that I was interested in medicine and the "soft" sciences. I was always wanting to know more about things. I read my mom's sociology books when I was a kid because I was so intrigued by what it was like to be an adolescent. I was very disappointed by the way my own adolescence turned out  I wanted to know about things so that I could be prepared. I don't like to make decisions unless I know as much about it (whatever "it" happens to be) as I can. I often would refuse to do something if I thought it was dangerous....so I seemed like a pretty boring child I think. I remember refusing to get on a boat when I was 5 because I knew that the time I would get on it, that that would be the time that a plug would fall out, or it would get a hole, and I would drown (this was before I could swim). The unknown kind of scares me...that's why I don't like water where you can't see through. Going into the ocean scares me (who knows what's out there). I also am very kind. I try to be the most considerate person I can be. I love holding doors open for people, helping old people or people in wheelchairs at the store reach the items on the high shelf. I try to be an example of the way I want man-kind to be. I have so many wonderful dreams for myself that I'd like to carry out, but I lack the energy to do it. I've always been pretty good athletically because I was strong, but I never seemed to have the energy the other kids do. I was the weird kid reading encyclopedias for fun... Learning big words just to impress people like teachers and parents. I cared so much about what other people thought of me and I tried not to let them down. I also like to give people the benefit of the doubt, even when my gut is telling me not too. Usually I regret it though. If I could change one thing about my personality, is that I wouldn't "feel" so intensely. It's very difficult to care so much about what other people think. I wish I could just be myself without worrying about how I'm perceived. I also would change my organization skills. Sometimes it's like I'm self-sabotaging myself for fear of failure. I would also like to be one of those high energy types that supposedly the ESTP's or ESFP's are. If I had more energy, I feel like I could live out my dreams more. I could keep a cleaner house, go out and do more things with the kids, etc.

8. How do you treat hunches or gut feelings? In what situations are they most often triggered? I have a problem with not always listening to my gut feelings when it comes to relationships. I recognize that they're there to tell me what to do when my outward actions aren't in alignment with what my subconscious knows to be right. Like the first date I had with my ex-husband, he kissed me. I pretended everything was okay on the date, but I went home and couldn't sleep all night. I had this horrible gut-feeling and I literally made myself sick. I ended up getting mono after we started dating, yet I kept doing it anyway. A lot of times now I try to listen to my hunches since I've learned that they're giving me guidance. Occasionally i still get gut-feelings that I rationalize away because I'm not sure why I'm feeling the way I am. Like on the first date with my current SO, I had an un-easy feeling from all the questions she was asking but I realized at the end of the date I was maybe feeling attracted to her. So I went on another date....confirmed that I was feeling attracted, and she didn't ask as many questions. Later on, I rationalized that all of her questioning of me felt kind of intrusive/aggressive and that must have been why I felt uneasy. I have since learned that she does that when she is nervous. However, months later, we are having a lot of issues where I feel like she is being very aggressive. She can become very irrational and has actually screamed at me before. I never scream at anyone like she's screamed at me. So now I'm thinking, maybe that gut-feeling of unease that I felt on our first date wasn't entirely about her questioning me. Maybe it was because something inside me knew that there was something incompatible about us as a couple? I have only dated her and my husband, so I really don't have a lot of information on how to handle my gut-feelings when it comes to relationships. As far as gut-feelings or hunches go when I'm out in the world, I usually go with them. Sometimes I know the answer to something and I'm not even sure how I know it. Intellectually I listen to my hunches, but when it comes to relationships with people, I do let my emotions cloud them.

9. a) What activities energize you most? b) What activities drain you most? Why? I get most energized when learning all about a new topic. I like to deep dive into what I'm learning to really get a good grasp of it so that I'm proficient/competent. I am energized by helping people. Singing (even though I'm not all that great), and listening to meaningful music make me feel alive. Getting to know someone that I'm really interested in, which has only happened a few times in my life, energizes me. Reading a new book and sitting down with a cup of coffee....with a cozy fire sounds so appealing and energizing. Going for a night out with a close friend to get drinks and just enjoy each other's company sounds great right now. Anticipating good things that will happen energizes me (vacations, positive life-decisions, etc.). I get most drained by being around a bunch of people and having to socialize all day. I don't like being out and about doing things for very long. Conflict and bad relationships drain the life out of me. Having to be super organized or constantly stay on-task (check things off of a to-list), having people tell me what to do (which is weird cause sometimes I want people just to tell me what it is they want me to do) all drain me. I think those things drain me because they are difficult for me to do. It feels like I am spending energy trying to be or do something that isn't natural for me.

10. What do you repress about your outward behavior or internal thought process when around others? Why? I repress negative emotions, judgements, annoyances when I'm around people. I try not to let anger get the best of me. I am pretty extroverted with my emotions with people, and they can usually read them on my face. When I'm really stressed though, people don't seem to realize just HOW stressed I am. I think I project an outward calmness that belies my actual turbulent current of emotions. I don't like to cry in front of others or act irrational (at least what I deem irrational, so it's subjective). I like to seem like someone who has control of their emotions. I want people to like me.... I think that's the main thing. I want people to perceive the good side of me. I want to be seen for all the good that I have to offer. I'm so hard on myself, that I don't want other people to judge me negatively too. Even writing this has been hard because I'm putting so much of myself out there for everyone to judge... I'm sure I'll edit this post about 10 times after writing it because I'll re-read it 50 times to see if it makes sense and touches all the points that I feel are important to cover.

Thank you for your time and expertise. The intellect on these boards are intimidating.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

I also wanted to say that my ex-husband and my son are ISFP's. My ex-husband is an artist and always willing to go out and "do" something with the kids. He takes them to parks and does active things with them a lot. He's very much an accepting person, sometimes too much. 

My son is never able to occupy himself with his thoughts and it drives me crazy. He's always wanting me to tell him what to do, or do something with him, or engage him in some way in the external world. If that doesn't work, he wants to be stimulated by screens (so I've had to limit them so that he will take an interest in other things). He's great at math and loves to draw or be technically proficient in whatever it is he is interested in. He is interested in music because it sounds good...it doesn't have to have lyrics for him to like it. He learned to ride a bike on two-wheels when he was only 4...just like my ESFP brother.

My mom is an ISFJ, my dad and brother are ESFP, and my other brother is an INTJ. Me and my mom are incredibly close and I love her so much. She loves to take care of people and has always seemed pretty extroverted to me.... I was surprised when we found out she was an introvert. I always told her that she needed a telephone cochlear implant with as much as she liked to talk to people on the phone. My ESFP dad and brother are crazy. They have a lot of energy, athletically skilled, take stupid risks, and are incredibly impulsive. They struggle with money management and always need to be doing something. My INTJ brother has always been an a**hole. Seriously. He and I always clashed because he has no consideration for other people's feelings. Everything has always been about himself. It has gotten a little better now that he's 30, but my god, it's taken a long time. I've had other friends that were INTJ or ENTJ in the workplace and at school...and usually they are the ones I like to compete with. They didn't come off near as much of a *ick like my brother. 

My SO is an INFP. She is able to out-argue me every time. She is very verbose compared to me. She also doesn't care about whether her emotions come out looking hysterical or not. She feels how she feels and thats it. She also acts a lot more reserved than me in public. Her face is not very expressive. I had a little trouble at first "reading" her. I only like to talk a lot when I'm excited about something.

Edited to add: I just thought about another weird thing that I have noticed about myself a while ago. When someone is extroverted and really outgoing around me, it makes it easy to have conversations, but I tend to become more of an introvert and not as outgoing. If I'm with another introvert, I become more outgoing. Like if I'm with friends at a dance and I had a friend who was very scared and reluctant to dance, then I would be the one out there coaxing them into dancing, showing them by dancing myself how even though I'm nervous, it's okay. But if I'm with a bunch of extroverts who go to a dance and have no problem just jumping right in and enjoying themselves, I will probably hold back even more. It's like I need to balance people out or something?


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

I think ISFJ. There's a lot of dominant Si, inferior Ne and Fe (this made my mom happy so I did that!).


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

I feel very different than my mom though. Not just as me as an individual, because who _doesn't _feel that way? But my mom will actually clean her house on a routine basis and does thing more out of duty than I will. I learned to not always do things out of duty by the time I was 29, but it took me a while to get to that point. 

I also don't relate well with Si. My INFP SO is much more sentimental than I am. I feel like I'm more aware of Se things than she is... I am prone to indulging in Se types of things when I feel bad... like drinking too much, I am much more sexual than her, and I am more impulsive than she is. 

I'm more reckless than my mom is also. I wasn't good at managing money up until I had kids of my own...and then I got a little better. I'm still not the best at it but much better than my brother. I'm more of a let's do this because it is fun type of person than my mom. She likes to make pro/cons lists when making decisions. I do not. I can grasp concepts very easily and apply what I've learned when presented with a scenario (like typical questions on tests in school) much more than she can. She always posts stuff like recipes and about god on her facebook wall.

I do not believe in organized religion...but felt compelled to create my own theology to develop an understanding of the universe when I was 14. I am not as trusting in authority as my mom is. I don't always trust people's motivations to be good, although I'd like to believe they are. I do not have blind faith in something. I need to figure out for myself if it makes sense to me.

And, my SO kinda detests ISFJ's. She wouldn't be with me if I was one. We would definitely have clashed. She specifically wanted to date another intuitive. When we had gotten together I had tested beforehand often as an INFP... so I thought with both of us being INFP's it wouldn't be a problem. 

But I do see the Ne/Ni clash. Like I said in my first post. I am almost looking for what something really means, and she is looking at all the possibilities of what it could mean. I love her creativity, but I want to understand what the truth of things are.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Oh, and also my mom and my SO's mom are ISFJ's and they're very good at playing hostess, taking care of everyone's needs. I can be like that but I do have to work at it. Sometimes I don't always notice when someone needs something, but I've gotten better at this since I've gotten older. I think having kids has really helped me hone that skill.


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

Tbh not every ISFJ is like that, look at @angelcat and @Eilonwy7- not your average ISFJs. Besides, your Ennragram might be causing a difference.

Try to look at Socionics ISFp (which correlates to ISFJ), it's usually the best description of ISFJs.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

I'll take a look into that....Isn't ISFj in socionics correlate to ISFP though? 


I usually type as an Enneagram 4 or 9. 

I just thought of this too.... my mom is a nurse and has ALWAYS been on time. I'm usually late and could never be a nurse because of how overwhelming the suffering of other people's feelings would be to me. That's why I work behind the scenes trying to help people. 

And at work, the people that make rules and follow them arbitrarily get on my nerves. I don't like to have to follow rules that do not make sense to me, but will do so if I feel like I'll get in trouble. Somehow if the risk of not following them is too high....then I'll follow them, but I won't like it.


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

person_ally_tee said:


> I'll take a look into that....Isn't ISFj in socionics correlate to ISFP though?
> 
> 
> I usually type as an Enneagram 4 or 9.
> ...


I meant to look at ISFp xD

Your mom might be a 2w1/1w2. if she's- like, 126 tritype, it would explain the difference.

Ti- it doesn't make sense? Well then- don't do it! I don't do it as well. Many SJs don't. Si doesn't mean following the rules, it means following your experience. The rules are shown to work, this is something I know, so I do it. If it's new and makes no sense- fuck it.

You have a massive case of inferior Ne. Worst case scenario thinking, imagining the negative outcomes of everything.

And also, the fact the others' suffering is overwhelming to you sounds so Fe to me. You feel others' suffering. Fi would be more detached and get the job done. Fe is overwhelmed by the negative feelings.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Perhaps you're right. I don't really relate to Ne though. At least the way it is in my SO's function stack. I just feel too weird to fit in with the majority of people. I remember sitting on the bench at recess in 2nd grade thinking about how stupid it was that all those kids were just playing on the playground. It seemed so pointless and mundane. Even now as an adult at work... insincerity and superficiality bother me to no end. I want what I do to mean something. I want to connect with people, but at the same time there feels like there's a block there. Even my mom thought there was something wrong with me at the age of 7 or 8 when I would come home from school and spend hours crying because of how deeply hurt I would feel about the things in my life.

Another reason I don't think I use Ne, but mostly Ni is that I'm really into symbolism, I love figuring out and deciphering what things "mean". Interpretation is something I love to do. I'm naturally good with languages, and learning them come very easy. Sometimes I just "know" the answer to things and I have no idea how I knew it. 

I read about Si on various websites and it doesn't resonate with me. On funkymbtifiction.com I read about Se in the various parts of the function stack. I do resonate with inferior Se. 

I think part of the reason I do go to "worst case" scenarios is that I had a lot of serious bad things happen when I was younger. I had witnessed my grandpa hitting my grandma and she had blood on her. We lived in a bad neighborhood and I remember at 4, people peeping in my room from my windows...people broke into my apartment. My grandma slowly wasted away to nothing while cancer ate her up and I lost her when I was only 6. Life was a very scary place when I was little. It got a lot better after the age of about 12.

Words are such a horrible medium for conveying the essence of a person.


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

person_ally_tee said:


> Perhaps you're right. I don't really relate to Ne though. At least the way it is in my SO's function stack. I just feel too weird to fit in with the majority of people. I remember sitting on the bench at recess in 2nd grade thinking about how stupid it was that all those kids were just playing on the playground. It seemed so pointless and mundane. Even now as an adult at work... insincerity and superficiality bother me to no end. I want what I do to mean something. I want to connect with people, but at the same time there feels like there's a block there. Even my mom thought there was something wrong with me at the age of 7 or 8 when I would come home from school and spend hours crying because of how deeply hurt I would feel about the things in my life.
> 
> Another reason I don't think I use Ne, but mostly Ni is that I'm really into symbolism, I love figuring out and deciphering what things "mean". Interpretation is something I love to do. I'm naturally good with languages, and learning them come very easy.
> 
> ...


I'm an SJ. I'm not most like most people (I've been told). During elementary school I stayed in my class drawing and couldn't bother myself with the other kids. I didn't made lots of friends because everyone were childish and boring to me. Superficiality annoys me too. 

Si is into symbolism as well. It's a subjective function as well. It has ideas about certain things and through Ne it changes its perception. I recommend reading this:

#introverted sensing - Funky MBTI in Fiction

angelcat has an MBTI blog and she talks about Si often, considering she's an ISFJ (and is unlike anyone you've ever met honestly). Reading her posts about Si might help you realize how awesome it is (I'm just bad at phrasing things while she's an actual author, so there's that). You said you read the posts about Se but try to read the ones on Si and hyperactive Ne?

That's me as well. 

You said you related to stuff on my posts, and if there's something that's pretty obvious is that I'm Si/Ne. And I'm creative, mature (I bet you couldn't guess that, but I just turned 17 this September), knowledgeable, and unlike anyone else. Despite being "the majority".

You said you're sick of the biases. So.. Try to let them go. I think ISFJ is written all over your post. You're even refusing to accept ISFJ because you know what as ISFJ looks like (your mother, for example) and you can't relate. They're the majority, unspecial and superficial. Because that's your idea of Si. Try to activate your Ne and be open minded about this.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Gray Romantic said:


> I'm an SJ.


How certain would you say you are that you're an SJ?


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

person_ally_tee said:


> How certain would you say you are that you're an SJ?


like, 98%. 

It doesn't matter, because there are so many great examples of SJs. Look at Hermione and professor McGonagall from Harry Potter (ESTJ), Belle is often mistyped as INFP but is actually an ISFJ, Elsa from Frozen is an ISTJ. Leslie freaking Knope from Parks and Recreation, who's ambitious, talented, creative, innovative and is totally special is an ESFJ.

SJs base a lot of their personality due to their nature, the environment they grew up in. If an SJ will grow up in a creative environment, will travel a lot, etc.- they'll be creative, they'll love to travel. 

It's really subjective and mystical, like Ni.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Well, even if the rules were known to work...sometimes I will change it up because a change could be even better. For instance...I don't buy into the traditional school system. I think it does a great disservice and squashes individuality and the freedom that children need to be innovative. 

I also don't believe in government....I don't think we need it. Yes it's been around for awhile, but that doesn't mean it's right. 

I didn't make these decisions based off experience. I made them based off if I thought they would work based off of what I know about the world/humanity, and also based off of what I want for the world to be. 

As far as MBTI.... I drive my INFP crazy because I make her look like a "J" type compared to me.

I'll read the socionics ISFp when I have more time tonight.


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## Adena (May 14, 2014)

person_ally_tee said:


> Well, even if the rules were known to work...sometimes I will change it up because a change could be even better. For instance...I don't buy into the traditional school system. I think it does a great disservice and squashes individuality and the freedom that children need to be able to be innovative.
> 
> I also don't believe in government....I don't think we need it. Yes it's been around for awhile, but that doesn't mean it's right.
> 
> ...


... Ok. I have a lot of traditional stuff I don't believe in. Because you grow up and learn better, your Si is filtered through Ne.

I feel like you're heavily biased and not willing to accept any SJ type so I'm gonna walk off and see if anyone else has an opinion, considering I stated mine.


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## Maker of helmets (Sep 8, 2014)

I cannot say I am without bias (I basically told you you were ENTP before)- however, ISFP seems like it could be a good fit.

I'm INFJ, my sister is ISFP and mum ISFJ. So I am happy to engage with you on this further;


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Thanks for your help. 

I guess I wasn't sure why you thought I was ENTP before? I'm so sensitive to people's harsh criticism. I really didn't perceive NT's to be that way at all. I don't like to debate because I have a hard time not letting anxiety get the best of me. Conflict is definitely something I want to avoid. 

I also need recharging time after being around people...so that's why I think I'm introverted. All I have in life are acquaintances...I have no close friends. Which sucks. 

With my son and ex being ISFP....(this could just be them though).... they seem much more involved with sensory things than I am. Art, moving their body, building things, etc. I like to watch TV, but only a couple favorite shows (Walking Dead..and the spinoff). I used to play video games but really haven't done that since I was 28 since they don't hold my interest as much anymore. When my ex and I lived together, the only reason it was manageable as long as it was was because we never fought about anything.

I know a few ISFJ's...and all of them get s*it done. I only get really, really important s*it done that I can't put off any longer.  And usually it's because it's for someone else. Otherwise I probably wouldn't do much of anything. I am depressed right now, but even still, I never did stay on top of stuff. I always wait til the last minute and seem to get by doing the least amount as possible. I hate that about myself. 

Oh and another thing. My ex almost never read anything. I would get him books all the time and the man never read a thing I got him. He never took an interest on anything abstract. My son is great with math, but the rest of his interests are all heavy on the Se.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Here's the results of my latest keys CF test. I tried my very hardest to not be biased....

I don't know if this is accurate, because I don't really feel like I'm that great with formal logic. 

Your Cognitive Development Profile
The forty-eight questions you rated earlier tap into the eight cognitive processes. Some questions tapped into basic or developed use of a process used by itself, while other questions tapped into use of multiple processes at once. The profile below is based on your responses. The number of squares indicate strength of response. The equivalent numeric is shown in parentheses along with likely level of development.

Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) *********************** (23.6)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ****************** (18.4)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *********************************** (35)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ****************************** (30.5)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ***************************** (29.4)
average use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************** (38.8)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************************* (25.5)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************** (38.8)
excellent use
Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INFP

Lead (Dominant) Process
Introverted Feeling (Fi): Staying true to who you really are. Paying close attention to your personal identity, values and beliefs. Checking with your conscience. Choosing behavior congruent with what is important to you.

Support (Auxilliary) Process
Extraverted Intuiting (Ne): Exploring the emerging patterns. Wondering about patterns of interaction across various situations. Checking what hypotheses and meanings fit best. Trusting what emerges as you shift a situation’s dynamics.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENFP, or INTP

If these results are different from what you know of yourself, you might consider why your developmental pattern does not align with your expectation. You might also consider exploring this result as a possible better fit.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

@Entropic... Help this poor soul. :kitteh:


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

person_ally_tee said:


> But my mom will actually clean her house on a routine basis and does thing more out of duty than I will.


I certainly do things out of duty, but clean my house? ... once a month. If company is coming. I'm a slob. Still a Si-dom.



> I also don't relate well with Si. My INFP SO is much more sentimental than I am.


Lower Si is way, _way_ more sentimental than higher Si. I see this in my NP friends all the time. The past is sacred to them. DO NOT MESS WITH IT. I could literally care less.



> I wasn't good at managing money up until I had kids of my own...and then I got a little better. I'm still not the best at it but much better than my brother. I'm more of a let's do this because it is fun type of person than my mom. She likes to make pro/cons lists when making decisions. I do not.


Money management? Ugh. Nope. 

Pro and con lists? Never. 



> I can grasp concepts very easily and apply what I've learned when presented with a scenario (like typical questions on tests in school) much more than she can. She always posts stuff like recipes and about god on her facebook wall.


Oh, good, me too. I catch on fast. Faster than some of the intuitives I know, in fact. 

People who care about recipes, share them. People who don't, don't.



> I am not as trusting in authority as my mom is. I don't always trust people's motivations to be good, although I'd like to believe they are. I do not have blind faith in something. I need to figure out for myself if it makes sense to me.


Me either. I'm an Enneagram 6 and a post-modernist. Nothing can be trusted. Question everything. Challenge authority. Defiance. Someone is always up to SOMETHING. 

Now, I did not march in here to wreck your day, just to tell you that the stereotypes for SJs are bullshit. Not all of them act the same. There's a 9 different Enneagram types that lay over ISFJs and change them completely from one another. My best friend is an ISFJ 2. Mothering, sweet, kind, knits. I'm an ISFJ 6. Conflict-prone, distrusting, intense, easily bored, super logical. Doesn't mean I'm not still Fe.

You need to figure out your mental process when you encounter new information, and then what you do with it -- add that up and that's your type.

Gotta run.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

You definitely didn't wreck my day. I appreciate more information to get a better picture. 

Thank you


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

BTW...My cognitive function test looks like it makes no sense. I don't see an actual type pattern at all. This is why I suck at typing myself.  

I think I must not be understanding the questions, but I'm trying really hard to think of how I am _most_ of the time.

Could maybe being an emotional person make me test as a feeling dominant type even though I would be an NT? 

Sometimes I do feel pretty clueless with what to do or what is appropriate in a given situation. I just know that I strive to do the right thing.

For example, my neighbor came over and we were talking. He was telling me about how his son got suspended and instead of going home, went over to the other district high-school and pretended he was a new student. I started laughing, but then I saw him start to tear up. I felt like an idiot for laughing... I thought it was humorous and he was just sharing a funny story. So I figured I should hug him because that's what would show that I care and maybe give him comfort. a-w-k-w-a-r-d.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

angelcat said:


> Lower Si is way, _way_ more sentimental than higher Si. I see this in my NP friends all the time. The past is sacred to them. DO NOT MESS WITH IT. I could literally care less.


TRUTH. :laughing:


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

I do keep old greeting cards from my grandpa and from my grandma. I feel like I never know when it will be the last one. And I have little baby boxes that I kept the kids' baby clothes in, the pregnancy tests, their pacifiers, etc. But my INFP has a ton of tapes....like actual cassette tapes...tons of them. All from the 80's when she bought or made the mixes. Her photo collection is insane. I think it's sweet that she cares so much. She says she does it because she has a terrible memory and is afraid of losing those precious memories.


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## Maker of helmets (Sep 8, 2014)

I think you definitely-possibly could use on balance more of extroverted Perceiving and introverted Judging than introverted Perceiving and extroverted Judging....


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Maker of helmets said:


> I think you definitely-possibly could use on balance more of extroverted Perceiving and introverted Judging than introverted Perceiving and extroverted Judging....


I wonder if this factors into HSP?

It would probably result in a person that doesn't get much done, huh? That's kind of the mode I'm in right now. I'm sucking in all the info I can and I've been stuck on this topic lately. Even the kids are starting to type people.  Haha


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## ENTPness (Apr 18, 2015)

angelcat said:


> Lower Si is way, _way_ more sentimental than higher Si. I see this in my NP friends all the time. The past is sacred to them. DO NOT MESS WITH IT. I could literally care less.


This is just not true. I mean I can be sentimental/nostalgic about certain things and I'm certainly interested in history, but I don't at all view the past as "sacred" or something not to be messed with by any stretch of the imagination. Quite the opposite. I believe we should learn from the past with the express purpose of avoiding repeating it, precisely because it was so fucked up and we can always improve on it. It's the SJ types who generally want to maintain established traditions, conventions, etc. and resist change. NP types are the complete opposite. We gleefully shatter convention, abandon traditions without a second thought, and constantly change everything.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

That cog function test, while far better than the dichotomous/axis tests, still isn't great. Lots of Se types get high Ne scores, and occasionally vice versa, because it doesn't do a great job of differentiating between Se and Ne.

Not sure what type you are though.

----
@angelcat & @ENTPness

I think I have lower (inferior) Si -- not sure, as I could be an Se dom and not an Ne dom -- but I'm not really sentimental or nostalgic. Maybe about a few specific things, but I would never use the word "sacred" to describe the past. That seems wildly off base.

Something I realized recently: I can't not change something. At work, I have a process that is now my responsibility, i.e. I am free to improve it as required. I very quickly revamped the entire thing, without even realizing what I was doing...to me, I was just doing what I thought it best to do. (Thankfully my boss was impressed haha.)


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## Maker of helmets (Sep 8, 2014)

Do you see yourself using on balance more of introverted Judging than extroverted Perceiving?


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## SiFan (Mar 10, 2015)

person_ally_tee said:


> BTW...My cognitive function test looks like it makes no sense. I don't see an actual type pattern at all. This is why I suck at typing myself.


Hi, 'Ally-Tee! Agree with you that it's difficult to pull a solid type out of your results.



> I think I must not be understanding the questions, but I'm trying really hard to think of how I am _most_ of the time.


Could be over-analyzing. For sure answer honestly; also try answering more 'as you are right now'.



> Could maybe being an emotional person make me test as a feeling dominant type even though I would be an NT?
> 
> ....


Maybe. Your F and T scores are remarkably close-- like you could switch them around withou noticing.

One approach to a resolution is to retake the test; except, this time, eliminate the wishy washy middle choice as an answer. That should produce a sharper result. 

For each question, Pick 1 or 2 OR 4 or 5. In other words, force yourself to indicate a for real preference. Also, avoid prolonged fretting and analysis over a question. Go with what 'feels right'.


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

SiFan said:


> One approach to a resolution is to retake the test; except, this time, eliminate the wishy washy middle choice as an answer. That should produce a sharper result.
> [/IMG]


Hi SiFan  Thank you for the above suggestion. I really think it helped me get a clearer picture on my functions. 


So here's what I'm thinking: ....I was plating micro specimens at work and thinking about this the whole time  I have noticed that I do thoroughly enjoy coming up with possibilities. I also enjoy tearing them down with what is most likely to happen. I believe this is a combo of Ne + Ti, which I had previously thought was just Ni observing and whittling down information. 

For instance, I diagnosed myself when I had gallstones (the doctor confirmed with U/S). A couple months ago I diagnosed my partner with shingles. At first we thought it was a weird bug bite. It itched, but she was in the car and unlikely to have come into contact with some weird bug. So somehow, I knew she had shingles...and it turned out I was right. Last January, while we were on vacation, her grandpa was sitting in the sun while I was in the pool and I was looking at his legs. I was worried because I had a feeling he had a clot in his legs...one of them was red and swollen. I even warned him on the way home (they were driving from Florida to Ohio), that he should be careful and stretch his legs as much as possible. A couple weeks later, he was in the hospital and they had found a clot in his legs (thank god they found it before it went to his lungs and became a PE). I am not a nurse and have never "seen" shingles or blood clots in legs before. I can read about something and apply it without any hands-on knowledge. We never even see patients in the laboratory, so this was just from theory I've learned in books.

I am able to extrapolate a whole lot of information from a small amount of data. And I love doing this. I am my own devil's advocate. Which can be bad sometimes too, because it makes me unable to come to a decision sometimes.

Even when I bought the house I'm in now....It's because I was in-contract for another house but it backed up against a freeway. I was worried though after I was already in-contract about the freeway pollution and the affect it could have on the kids. So I did some research and discovered houses by the freeway tend to have a far greater number of pollutants in the air than other locations. I determined the best location would be west of a major city, and preferably southwest of a major freeway. I ended up getting out of the contract with the other house. I found another house in a neighborhood that I ironically had looked at a year prior (I asked to see the house before I realized it was in the neighborhood that I had wanted previously). The house just felt "right" to me. I had already spent the money on an inspection with the house I had been in contract with, and I didn't even feel like the inspector did a good job...so I didn't get another inspection for this house when I decided to buy it. The reason being is that I noticed the house was kept in meticulous condition, the spices were organized, etc. I could tell these people had high standards and they would have done a great job keeping the house in good condition. And I was right. This has been a great place to raise the kids, and I have had really great neighbors.

I was also thinking about how growing up I remember people telling me I had no "common sense". And it was true. Now as an adult, I struggle with things like which is the best order to do things in. I can't always think of what to pack for trips so I tend to over-pack to compensate. I often forget to get napkins at restaurants. I go for accuracy more so than efficiency...cause I suck at efficiency. Although I do value succinctness in language. 

Also, I haven't excluded me being a sensor either... so another bit of info: I tend to walk fast, and I'm in a hurry generally because my brain knows where it wants to go. I also eat fast. I plow through doors. Unfortunately sometimes I am a little klutzy. I have hurt myself by opening the door forcefully onto my knee, rendering me on the floor crying in agony. I have always dropped and knocked over things. I thought it was funny how I was going into a field that requires fairly careful control over your body to prevent accidents from happening. (Irony is my favorite humor) Back when they used to have glass specimen tubes, I had gotten really good at breaking their fall with my foot since I dropped them so often. Also, I knocked over a whole test tube rack of acetic acid onto my scientific calculator in class and permanently "burned" the plastic onto the black molded countertop. But, I can make really good shots with the basketball sometimes... so who knows? I can be nicely coordinated when I'm concentrating. And I'm the only female IRL I know that has ever been able to bench 200 lbs. (My dad could bench the rear end of a small car a few times when he was in his prime, so I think I inherited whatever muscle attachments or number of certain muscle fibers to enable me to be able to lift so much.) :wink:

Here's the new results of the test after trying to avoid (as many as possible) those pesky "3's". I think I only had 3-5 "3's"....the rest I tried to stick with the suggested 1-2 or 4-5 range.


_Your Cognitive Development Profile

The forty-eight questions you rated earlier tap into the eight cognitive processes. Some questions tapped into basic or developed use of a process used by itself, while other questions tapped into use of multiple processes at once. The profile below is based on your responses. The number of squares indicate strength of response. The equivalent numeric is shown in parentheses along with likely level of development.

Cognitive Process	Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)

extraverted Sensing (Se) **************** (16.7)
limited use

introverted Sensing (Si) ************************* (25.9)
average use

extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ******************************************* (43.5)
excellent use

introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************ (24.7)
average use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************* (19.7)
limited use

introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************************** (46.2)
excellent use

extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************************* (25.9)
average use

introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************* (37)
excellent use

Summary Analysis of Profile

By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: INTP

Lead (Dominant) Process
Introverted Thinking (Ti): Gaining leverage (influence) using a framework. Detaching to study a situation from different angles and fit it to a theory, framework or principle. Checking for accuracy. Using leverage to solve the problem.

Support (Auxilliary) Process
Extraverted Intuiting (Ne): Exploring the emerging patterns. Wondering about patterns of interaction across various situations. Checking what hypotheses and meanings fit best. Trusting what emerges as you shift a situation’s dynamics.

If these cognitive processes don't fit well then consider these types: ENTP, or INFP

If these results are different from what you know of yourself, you might consider why your developmental pattern does not align with your expectation. You might also consider exploring this result as a possible better fit._


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

I just wondered...could I be using Ti to imagine how I would feel in this situation which is simulating Fi? Cause sometimes if I haven't experienced it, I don't really have TRUE empathy. I feel bad that the person feels bad...but i can't put myself in their situation unless I try really hard. My SO will ask me often if I can understand why she feels the way she does. Sometimes I can and sometimes I can't. But I always want to.



Edited: I was just thinking about this and wanted to get all of your thoughts on this. Is it possible to be INTP and a 4 or 9 enneagram? The first time I took it I typed 9, then next time I took it I typed 4. I don't think that is likely given what I know about enneagram/MBTI correlations, but maybe it is different for female INTP's? Or could I be an ISFJ or an ISFP? I really doubt the ISFJ though... (Not that there is anything wrong with ISFJ, my beautiful mom is a fine example of a human being and an ISFJ.)


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## 68097 (Nov 20, 2013)

ENTPness said:


> This is just not true. I mean I can be sentimental/nostalgic about certain things and I'm certainly interested in history, but I don't at all view the past as "sacred" or something not to be messed with by any stretch of the imagination. Quite the opposite. I believe we should learn from the past with the express purpose of avoiding repeating it, precisely because it was so fucked up and we can always improve on it. It's the SJ types who generally want to maintain established traditions, conventions, etc. and resist change. NP types are the complete opposite. We gleefully shatter convention, abandon traditions without a second thought, and constantly change everything.


It depends on the person.

Fi/Si seems much more determined to hold on to certain things from the past, and to hold on tightly. Ti/Si, not so much. The NFPs I know are much more nostalgic about their own past than the NTPs.


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## Maker of helmets (Sep 8, 2014)

I would think it is definitely possible for you to be INTP with 4 or 9 Enneagram


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

I just realized it was probably Si that I was using to understand how people would feel. Since I need Si to remember how I felt about a previous experience. I've gotten a lot better at using it as I've gotten older.


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## Maker of helmets (Sep 8, 2014)

Yes, that makes sense


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## UnicornRainbowLove (May 8, 2014)

I believe you're either INFJ or INFP. Your wanting to do the right thing and your fixation on people is a dead give-away to your F-preference. You've already stated that you're an introvert, and nothing really speaks for a Sensing preference. You seem to be in your head a lot, enjoy intellectual pursuits and you speak very much in impressions about people (or your own experience) rather than trying to give a direct account of what happened. It's not like you're the most obvious N type ever, but you're definitely there. 

As for P vs. J, well, I believe that this is complicated due to your neurotic nature. You have a sexuality which is still a taboo for most people, and being different in such a way and afraid of others figuring out leaves scars. From everything I read about you, I want to say you're an INFJ, but that is without conditioning on your life struggles. It looks like you want to do the "proper" thing always. You are an achiever, you married really early and fast, got children even, you tell people directly what they're doing wrong, and the emotion of disgust seems to crawl up in different places in your life. All of that indicates a J preference to me. However, you score INFP on tests AND you have emotional trouble due to your sexuality, and that's important to consider. You might simply be too neurotic to dare acting like a perceiver, and it's all just a big cover-up, a defense mechanisms, that makes you try to look like you're completely conservative as to avoid attention. 

Within the Big Five (which is a different measure of personality) there is a dimension of personality called "neuroticism" which captures your "level of emotion", particularly the negative kind. Highly neurotic people, like me, are very much in tune with their emotions, and this leads most of them to relate to the so-called Fi function regardless of whether it's supposedly in their function stack or not. From my experience very neurotic INFJs (those who are very much in touch with their feelings) relate to Fi. 
My intuition tells me that you're simply a neurotic INFJ and therefore you're wondering about being f.x. an ISFP, but please think about INFP as well as your P/J preference really isn't clear.


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## SiFan (Mar 10, 2015)

person_ally_tee said:


> Hi SiFan  Thank you for the above suggestion. I really think it helped me get a clearer picture on my functions.
> 
> 
> So here's what I'm thinking: ....I was plating micro specimens at work and thinking about this the whole time  I have noticed that I do thoroughly enjoy coming up with possibilities. I also enjoy tearing them down with what is most likely to happen. I believe this is a combo of Ne + Ti, which I had previously thought was just Ni observing and whittling down information.
> ...



Cool @person_ally_tee! Thanks for retaking the test and posting results along with comments.

Introvert and INTP seems to be quite a good fit. Total score (sum of included functions) is a solid 141.5. Your Fi Ne Lead strength is 89.7, which is very strong.

Closest alternative is INFJ. Total score is a decent 126.1. The Fi Ne Lead strength is 80.5, very strong but 9.2 points lower than Ti Ne.

Could you be a sensor? Practically speaking, No. Although corresponding total scores for ISTJ and ISFJ are the same as above, Lead strength plummets. Si is too low, especially combined with a low Te or Fe, for a good Lead.

Based upon scores, the test's choice, and what you've said here and earlier, you do, indeed, appear to be an intuitive introvert of type INTP. And, probably thanks to F functions close in strength to T functions, you are more aware of feelings than most INTPs.

*
INTP is "The Thinker"*

Stack is Ti Ne Si Fe

Jungian functional preference ordering:

Dominant: Introverted Thinking
Auxiliary: Extraverted Intuition
Tertiary: Introverted Sensing
Inferior: Extraverted Feeling

Description of INTP is *Here*.

As mentioned earlier, should you disagree with this result you are free to pick a type, such as INFP, which you believe is a better fit.


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## SiFan (Mar 10, 2015)

person_ally_tee said:


> I just wondered...could I be using Ti to imagine how I would feel in this situation which is simulating Fi? Cause sometimes if I haven't experienced it, I don't really have TRUE empathy. I feel bad that the person feels bad...but i can't put myself in their situation unless I try really hard. My SO will ask me often if I can understand why she feels the way she does. Sometimes I can and sometimes I can't. But I always want to.


Yes; Ti can work as you suggest. In your case, it seems clear that you have and pick up on feelings; so, Ti can analyze and, possibly, refine and elaborate upon them.



> Edited: I was just thinking about this and wanted to get all of your thoughts on this. Is it possible to be INTP and a 4 or 9 enneagram? The first time I took it I typed 9, then next time I took it I typed 4. I don't think that is likely given what I know about enneagram/MBTI correlations, but maybe it is different for female INTP's? Or could I be an ISFJ or an ISFP? I really doubt the ISFJ though... (Not that there is anything wrong with ISFJ, my beautiful mom is a fine example of a human being and an ISFJ.)


In studies of MBTi type matches to Enneagram numbers (zones), Enneagram gives the e-test to persons of known MBTI type. Practically any type is liable to show up in nearly any of the nine enneagram zones, just not in large numbers. For making enneagram <--> MBTI conversions, ennagram depends upon data showing clusters of an MBTI type for this or that zone. 

Usually, for a sample of a few hundred persons in a study, an MBTI type will show a cluster for 2 or 3 zones and much smaller (or zero) counts for other zones. Enneagram focuses upon the clusters to figure which zones a type matches. A small number of hits in other zones is mostly ignored. Just because Zone 4 attracts lots of INFJ and INFP hits does not mean it does not attract any hits from other types.
ref The Enneagram and the MBTI, early papers on the relationship between the two personality typing systems
ref Charts
ref A Review and Update, John Fudjack

edit: You may find this video by an INTP girl interesting: "Difference between intp and infp girls"


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

I don't see why it matters. You are how you are. Four letters doesn't change that.

Also I'd like to know where everyone is from. I am the only "N " I know and the " S" are such condescending and pompous nerds. They are insistent that none of my " N" trait have any use and treat me like I'm useless idiot.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Fumetsu said:


> I don't see why it matters. You are how you are. Four letters doesn't change that.
> 
> Also I'd like to know where everyone is from. I am the only "N " I know and the " S" are such condescending and pompous nerds. They are insistent that none of my " N" trait have any use and treat me like I'm useless idiot.


Of course a type doesn't change who you are. Just like calling oneself "heterosexual" doesn't change the fact that one is heterosexual (if one is). That's silly. We're here not to change who we are, but to gain further insight on who we are through personality type and its various theories. (This is actually why I prefer Jung to MBTI. The dichotomies told me what I already know, while JCF provides me further insight into my tendencies.) If type doesn't matter to you, I'd question why you're even here, and why you have a type listed.

Sounds like you need better company.


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## Fumetsu (Oct 7, 2015)

ketchup said:


> Of course a type doesn't change who you are. Just like calling oneself "heterosexual" doesn't change the fact that one is heterosexual (if one is). That's silly. We're here not to change who we are, but to gain further insight on who we are through personality type and its various theories. (This is actually why I prefer Jung to MBTI. The dichotomies told me what I already know, while JCF provides me further insight into my tendencies.) If type doesn't matter to you, I'd question why you're even here, and why you have a type listed.
> 
> Sounds like you need better company.


Because I can have an interest in something without taking it too seriously? 

I do, but here in Tech-town that's what you get.


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## counterintuitive (Apr 8, 2011)

Fumetsu said:


> Because I can have an interest in something without taking it too seriously?
> 
> I do, but here in Tech-town that's what you get.


Ok, I guess we differ on the idea of "too seriously" then. I don't see the OP or like 99% of the people here taking personality type "too seriously".


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Maker of helmets said:


> Do you see yourself using on balance more of introverted Judging than extroverted Perceiving?


Hi Maker of helmets,

I just realized you asked me this question. Sorry for the delay. I believe I use more introverted judging more so than extroverted perceiving. I have been trying to pay more attention to the way my mind works. I don't think I'm Fi dominant though because I feel socially inept. I'm scared that a situation will come up at my kids' co-op where I'll have to mediate or know what to do in a social situation. Maybe this is a stereotype, but I would think a feeler would generally be more of a natural in those situations. I definitely feel like the odd man out compared to the other parents. It's a weak spot that I've seen for a long time and I've tried very hard to compensate for. 

My SO and I have discussed before how overwhelming emotions can be for me. She didn't quite understand because emotions don't scare her. She knows they are a temporary thing and that they pass. But I seem to tie meaning to my emotions that are probably not objective, and they feel out of control.


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## Maker of helmets (Sep 8, 2014)

This is good. I can tell you've expended a lot of energy thinking about this, and I think you deserve a vacation :happy:


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## person_ally_tee (Aug 31, 2015)

Maker of helmets said:


> This is good. I can tell you've expended a lot of energy thinking about this, and I think you deserve a vacation :happy:


Are you trying to get rid of me? :tongue:

I really appreciate your help. I have let up a little bit with the obsessing since I feel like I've figured it out. It does feel better now that I've gotten a better understanding of CF's.


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## Maker of helmets (Sep 8, 2014)

Not at all :laughing: Glad to hear you've benefited from knowing about these


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