# NTs and the concept of romance



## Rouge

As an NF, I realise my idea of romance is very different from that of NTs. 

Just curious, what would you, an NT, do to romance your partner?

Or do you consider romance unnecessary in a relationship?


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## PersonaNonGrata

...i think if you want to understand the rationals concept of romance look at this : 
xkcd - A Webcomic - Alone
xkcd - A Webcomic - Projection
i am a textbook NT and don't care for romance more than for any social norm i need to adhere to to get laid, but this made me shiver a bit


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## jochris

Rouge said:


> As an NF, I realise my idea of romance is very different from that of NTs.
> 
> Just curious, what would you, an NT, do to romance your partner?
> 
> Or do you consider romance unnecessary in a relationship?


Firstly, I love how you said "concept of romance" instead of just "romance", because that's really how it is.

I'll say I have my romantic moments, but my idea of romance isn't usually the same as other types. I don't like flowers (because they die; if he wants to give me flowers, give me one single fake flower so it will last in my room) or typically romantic scenarios.

I was recently alone on a beach at night with someone I was involved with. There was a lit-up pier in front of us, and fireworks going up behind us; the sea was reflecting all sorts of lights from the pier and fireworks. It was dark and quiet. It made me uncomfortable, and I kept trying to look away from the lights. He asked me why I was doing that, and I said that it was all too cliché and that it was a little weird. He agreed that it was a bit cliché but didn't see anything wrong with it being so (he's an INTP too, but I have an unusually strong NT).

On the other hand, we were watching the latest Harry Potter movie and spent the entire movie discussing/criticising it. That, to me, is really romantic. :tongue:

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate kisses, cuddles and hugs. Just maybe not as much as feelers and/or sensors do, and we create romantic gestures in our own special NT way. roud:


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## Rouge

PersonaNonGrata said:


> xkcd - A Webcomic - Alone


This reminds me of an NT I once dated. Whoever that came up with this comic strip is a genius.

PersonaNonGrata, have any of your girlfriends been NFs or SFs? Have you ever felt that they were unreasonable in their demand for romantic attention?

jochris, just curious, what did you find romantic about critiquing the latest Harry Potter movie? An NF like me has difficulty following.


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## jochris

Rouge said:


> jochris, just curious, what did you find romantic about critiquing the latest Harry Potter movie? An NF like me has difficulty following.


It was just the fact that we both love Harry Potter, and discussions as well as debates are sexy for a true NT. roud:

Also, on that beach, he ended up writing/drawing maths problems on the sand as I solved them. Of all things we could've done alone on the beach at night. :laughing: We NT's are so very special.


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## 480

I liked doing the traditional thing for anniversaries... first year is paper. She was all about Lord of the Rings so I got her the Arwen pendant... I ordered it "late" on purpose and handed her the invoice for it rolled up like a scroll tied off with a length of lace on the actual day of. She had to wait a week for it. For the flowers and fruit year I bought a lot of citrus fruits and strawberries and took a very large heart-shaped platter and made a single large flower on it complete with a long green bean stem, and basil leaves... with chocolate syrup for "dirt". We stood in the kitchen and fed it to each other. For iron and candy year (our last, we were separated then too) I visited an equestrian club and got an old used horse shoe--took it to a bench grinder and cleaned/polished it up, then painted it. I mailed that to her with a box of her favorite chocolates... which of course melted... 

I enjoy stuff like this... the mental challenge of coming up with something special, and unique... learning what makes my partner melt and finding a personal way to express it. I put a lot of thought and energy into it. My feeling functions are also two of my three weakest. It doesn't bother to step outside my comfort zone and try new things... because I see myself as limitless, always expanding/growing.

Here's where I think things breakdown... people with a strong peferrence for feeling have no trouble asking me for help with a math problem, or a science question, or some other situation involving logic/reason, and I have no problem helping out with those things... but when it comes to the romance/feeling departments, and area that my brain is naturally not wired to access, I'm expected to just know. I'm treated like if I have to be told, or things suggested then I didn't care to begin with. This is especially true with you guys that have story-book views of romance, I'm supposed to be a knight in shining armor that always knows the most charming thing to say, the most thoughtful gift to give, all while fixing the car, keeping the bills paid, stopping that leaky faucet in the bathroom etc. The irony of being judged if I fall short of these expectations is rather sweet. Yes, I'm generalizing and yet there is truth here. I think rationals have just as much right to expect feelers to learn to deal with things logically and rationally as we're expected be feely and romantic. Personally I find I'm willing to learn, but feelers seem to never want to hear that noise. "Accept me as I am!." goes both ways.

Communication and assisted, mutual growth is the key.


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## Rouge

Awww.... how sweeeeet! Your girlfriend/wife is one lucky woman :happy:



Grim said:


> I'm treated like if I have to be told, or things suggested then I didn't care to begin with. This is especially true with you guys that have story-book views of romance, I'm supposed to be a knight in shining armor that always knows the most charming thing to say, the most thoughtful gift to give, all while fixing the car, keeping the bills paid, stopping that leaky faucet in the bathroom etc. The irony of being judged if I fall short of these expectations is rather sweet. Yes, I'm generalizing and yet there is truth here. I think rationals have just as much right to expect feelers to learn to deal with things logically and rationally as we're expected be feely and romantic. Personally I find I'm willing to learn, but feelers seem to never want to hear that noise. "Accept me as I am!." goes both ways.
> 
> Communication and assisted, mutual growth is the key.


That's a very good point. I have to admit I haven't thought of it this way until you said it *thumbs up*


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## Kevinaswell

It's funny, cuz to me, I could honestly even consider just the fact that I don't hate someone enough to actually want to be around you at all as a "romantic" gesture.

Which kinda sucks because I doubt anyone else ever looks at it like that....but there is a lot of truth there.


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## 480

Rouge said:


> Your girlfriend/wife is one lucky woman :happy:


Wife, and she didn't think so. Ended up in bed with my best friend of 8 years while I was stationed overseas (and who knows who else...). She left me a few months after I got back. It was all my fault for "leaving her".

The ESFP style of romance leaves a bit to be desired.


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## Rouge

Wow, that sucks! To find out you've lost both your wife and best friend at the same time. Just when you're looking forward to some domestic bliss now that you're back. I can understand how lonely your ex could have felt, but she doesn't know what commitment is. You're better off without her, Grim. Every marriage has its rough patches, maybe it's better to find out earlier than later what she's made of *hugs*


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## 480

Rouge said:


> Wow, that sucks! To find out you've lost both your wife and best friend at the same time. Just when you're looking forward to some domestic bliss now that you're back. I can understand how lonely your ex could have felt, but she doesn't know what commitment is. You're better off without her, Grim. Every marriage has its rough patches, maybe it's better to find out earlier than later what she's made of *hugs*


I agree with what you've said here... my daughter is the biggest sufferer in all this. I'm sad it took place but I know I'm better for it in the long run.

I still have the friend, I forgave them both--the whole thing had cost too much already. Granted what I trust my friend with now has changed out of necessity... but I don't hate either of them. Anyway... enough derailment; my personal life was not the point of this thread.


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## Perseus

*Druids and Romans*

*I have been a complete failure at the Romance game. When a small error get you beaten up by a Guard (SJ), I tend to be desirous, but I get burnt out by the risk factor. I have been in the Lions den with the Big Cats (ESTP). They accused me of being a Christian and threw me out. *


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## PersonaNonGrata

my most important gf was a INFJ, 3 years of my relatively short life of 20 years  another one was SF, yes. actually i am very creative in doing things for them, but the classic aren't my taste, but i want them to feel happy, so i do very romantic things, but not because i need to, but because i like to make them happy. my concept of romance is a bit different, more like the comics i posted. when i make a present it is very very unique (loved childrens book she lost, or just some special candy on a normal day, just to prove i spent time thinking about it)


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## kiskadee

Kevinaswell said:


> It's funny, cuz to me, I could honestly even consider just the fact that I don't hate someone enough to actually want to be around you at all as a "romantic" gesture.
> 
> Which kinda sucks because I doubt anyone else ever looks at it like that....but there is a lot of truth there.


Hey, that sounds like me.


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## LeelooDallas

See this is the kind of topic I need to print out for my INFP boyfriend since he's just not understanding what romance is to me. I'd say pretty much all of the traditional romantic things that guys are expected to do for women don't impress me : 
- flowers - they eventually die and until then you have to keep cutting the stalks to help them last longer. that's way to much work for a gift that's only going to last a week.
- chocolates -OK chocolates taste good but to me it's an item of food and i don't quite get how its supposed to be more romantic receiving a box of chocolates than say a bag of grapes or a bucket of chicken.
- jewelry - over the years I've accumulated several pieces of jewelry that were gifts from old boyfriends. I don't wear much jewelry besides earrings, yet I have received many bracelets and necklaces .

Romance should be catered to the person you are with and not just some cliche gesture. For instance recently my current boyfriend surprised me with a off the beaten path tour of Chinatown and Lower East Side. The combination of learning new things, having a great discussion and delicious _dim sum_ was very romantic to me.


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## snail

I'm not an NT, but I totally agree that in order to be truly romantic, it has to be directed at an individual rather than being an expression of an empty tradition. Most romantic traditions aim to please a stereotype of what "all men" or "all women" or are supposedly into, (usually "all women" because men are traditionally expected to be on the giving end) and fail to interest those who fall outside of the stereotype. I'm not into jewelry, chocolates or roses either. Poetry, music, art, or anything that shows he understands and cares who I am will always be more effective, especially if I can tell he put a lot of thought into it. The first time I ever had a boyfriend during Valentine's day, I gave him some first-edition books signed by an author I knew he liked. I had to look through all of the bookstores in three different towns to find them. I was secretly disappointed that he gave me a boring bouquet of ordinary, meaningless roses. Anyone can do that for anyone else, without it mattering who either of them is. It wasn't something for me. It was something for "a girlfriend."

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad he thought about me. I wasn't upset with him at all... just with the social expectations that led to the behavior. The very idea of celebrating Valentine's Day takes some of the romance out of doing nice things for each other, because it becomes an obligation. Instead of treating gift-giving as something meaningful, spontaneous and special that shows an authentic interest, it is just something we are expected to do to keep from seeming like we don't care, and ends up being neutral if we are successful in remembering "oh yeah, I'm supposed to buy something for my mate. Now let's see... which of the traditional gifts will it be this time?"

Partners can easily fall into the same kind of mentality on non-holidays. They will have good intentions, and will think "I love this person and want to do something special for her" but the next thought, instead of considering the partner as an individual, will still be " Now let's see... which of the traditional gifts will it be this time?" as though the same expectations always applied. I see it as a lack of creativity more than a lack of interest.


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## decided

LeelooDallas said:


> Romance should be catered to the person you are with and not just some cliche gesture.


Couldn't have said it better!


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## Irulan

PersonaNonGrata said:


> ...i think if you want to understand the rationals concept of romance look at this :
> xkcd - A Webcomic - Alone
> xkcd - A Webcomic - Projection


I actually think those are really sweet.

I think I have some sort of strange natural attraction to NTs (introverted ones) or something.

On a different note, I'm not sure that the whole chocolate/flowers/whatever has to do with type. I find those to be a bit cheesy as well, personally. It's cute if my husband buys me flowers, but I have always appreciated his time more. Intellectual conversations are nice time together as long as it's in an area I can follow. (I can follow most easily, but some bore me to the zoning out point.) I do enjoy slow walks in quiet places though, which is probably more NFish. I think I read in the "love types" of INTPs (I think it was INTPs) that they like museum dates. I LOVE MUSEUMS!!! Anyhow, the whole point is that I think our romance styles can vary a little from the norm for our types. Mine certainly does, and I doubt I'm the only one. Romance probably has some to do with MBTI, but with a lot of other factors as well. I only say this from personal experience though, so I admit to it being a bit subjective. Anyone else agree with my current subjectiveness?


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## Charlie Chaotic

Romance and intimacy is a key factor in dealing with relationships. With that, I don't consider it a relationship. Now that doesn't mean that you have to be kissing (ect) in the relationship. As long as there is the emotional form of love, it is a relationship. Then comes the intimacy. 

Love is being able to feel sad when your gone from each other for a week (or less), when you find yourself thinking about that person all the time, and it's when you start to doubt that your good enough for that person. That is how you know your in love. As long as you have that ping in your heart when you see your loved one's face, or you know that you'll do anything for that person, then that is love.

Gah...I'm an inner romantic but I can live without it. Romance is just showing you love someone, through words or even actions, or those feelings that you get. As simple as that.

And for the whole NF and NT thing, I think the concept of romance is mostly the same. I think the main difference is that NFs are much more:









And NT's are more like:


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## Irulan

haha

Yeah, Charlie, I agree with your distinction between NTs and NFs. haha


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## Linesky

It's a tool...? ^___^ Let me elaborate on this thought:

At this stage in life (18) I don't have commitment. I have love however. Random people I know/hang out with, friendship, and sometimes love. That warm fuzzy feeling that makes my day a bit better.  Spread the love ! Mhh, anyways. The concept of romance. Personally it reminds me of those moments where both parties are aware of and sharing their intimacy. It can happen in whatever way, something personal... Well, it's good to offer love fluff, or a new dimension, because it adds up to the nice feelings, so that's why I referred to it as a tool. However it isn't always used intentionally : sometimes it just happens. "Magix: good feeling". It is like a tool For but also OF love. It's hard for me to believe there could be romance without love. 

Romance goes hand in hand with a shared love between two people. It's a highly personal expression. If this means sharing homework together, or crying together, or pulling pranks off each other, or playing games, or offering a sweet hug after a long day, or draw (on) each other, then so be it. It's a share of what you like. Expression. 

As for you guys referring to flowers, chocolates, whatever. I've never, ever considered that as something even Relevant. Those are simply gifts to me. If you think that is romance then you don't know me. I might just tell you your "kind" of love is one sided, I really don't see romance that way. Makes me want to flick that box of chocolates in somebody's face after getting the chocolates out.  Haha, anyways. Sorry for my agression. 

I'm having some thoughts. Saving them for a new thread ,possibly.


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## Persephone

I must admit I don't understand romance at all. 

At sixteen (I'm sixteen going on seventeen), I had my first kiss. I've had my own conceptions of what it feels like before I had it, and I can definitely say I didn't enjoy it. It was absolutely horrid, actually. All I could focus on was how he didn't seem to have brushed his teeth before he kissed me. 

I guess afterwards, I became opportunistic and "tried on" different men for sizes, and I found that while it's significantly better, it was nowhere near my conception of it. Now I don't feel any longing for that again, needless to say. Physical romance, for me, is not very necessary.

Cuddling always turns out awkward (well, it was with a midget, the first time around. The second time, it was a lot better). All I could think of was how _ordinary_ the physical experience was, and how badly we fit together, and how I'd rather be on my own. I guess I treated romance like an intellectual matter. I was thirsting for that first kiss before I had it, and now that I know what it feels like, I'm not so excited anymore. 

Now, I know a lot of men won't be satisfied with this, but right now, I think hugs and holding hands ought to be physical enough for any relationship I have.

As for the emotional aspects of romance, I never understood why chocolates and candy hearts are so romantic. They don't elicit any feelings for me at all. In fact, I'd be pretty jaded if a boyfriend gave me these for V-day. Jaded and disappointed, to be exact, not that I expect any sort of Valentine's present.

When I emotionally commit to someone, I find it very hard to back out, and trust me when I say I don't commit easily. However, I don't need to be emotionally committed to be involved (physically and romantically) with a man. I go into the relationship either on the assumption that it will end quickly (thus, for hedonism alone) or on the assumption that he's the kind of man I _can_ grow to love.


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## Alchemical Romance

Hmm, love. All though an NF well it kinda screeches my ear the concept of traditional gift. Roses, bleah. Candy, bleah. Cliches like that. First of all loving doesn't mean buying stuff. Anyone can do it even if they don't feel squat, i don't express love by buying stuff and not only once i have been called 'a cheap bastard'. I don't need gifts either for the same reason and again because of that it was always assumed i didn't like it. What I do like is originality. Doing something hand made usually weighs more in my eyes than any bought nonsens. I don't care for a gold keychain if i'm the milionth man that has the same key chain. ah... but make a tin key chain, add a picture and i'll probbably guard it with my life. As for topics like NT love NF love. Who cares as long if it's there. I mean what could possibly be the difference between having a walk through a park or having a walk through a museum. Actually i like the idea of a museum walk more romantic because it's not so stereotipical and as i said i apreciate originality. The aim of the concept of gift is to make the person next to you happy. For example if he or she is a medicin student i could understand why she\he would like to go to a hospital talk to doctors about diseases, visit a morgue, attend an autopsy and so on. I as a 'gift giver' would enjoy seing her happy and would try to organize such a meeting. And it's damn way more cool and original than getting a cliche rose bouquet. Of course problems arize when incompatible join. When she wants a walk through a park but she gets a walk to the morgue or viceversa but there's no such thing as 'this or that is more romantic' romantic is seeing the person next to you happy, the rest is only a means to an end. As for Valentines Day? ,are you kidding me? I'm an NF every day is Valentines day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Karen

As an ESFP, I'm very expressive when it comes to love. With my INTJ husband, it's almost like he has a manual hidden in the closet that he runs and looks at before being expressive. But at least he makes the effort! We are, above all, Keirsey's Mind Mates, since that's what he's most comfortable with. We do spend a little more time than he'd like dissecting people's personalities. He shows love by being willing to take me out a lot, since he knows I need change stimulation. I haven't been able to find everything in one person, and after 20 years of marriage I trust him, he's fun to talk to and do things with, and he works hard at the marriage, so it works okay, even though we're opposite types.


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## Irulan

Alchemical Romance said:


> Hmm, love. All though an NF well it kinda screeches my ear the concept of traditional gift. Roses, bleah. Candy, bleah. Cliches like that. First of all loving doesn't mean buying stuff. Anyone can do it even if they don't feel squat, i don't express love by buying stuff and not only once i have been called 'a cheap bastard'. I don't need gifts either for the same reason and again because of that it was always assumed i didn't like it. What I do like is originality. Doing something hand made usually weighs more in my eyes than any bought nonsens. I don't care for a gold keychain if i'm the milionth man that has the same key chain. ah... but make a tin key chain, add a picture and i'll probbably guard it with my life. As for topics like NT love NF love. Who cares as long if it's there. I mean what could possibly be the difference between having a walk through a park or having a walk through a museum. Actually i like the idea of a museum walk more romantic because it's not so stereotipical and as i said i apreciate originality. The aim of the concept of gift is to make the person next to you happy. For example if he or she is a medicin student i could understand why she\he would like to go to a hospital talk to doctors about diseases, visit a morgue, attend an autopsy and so on. I as a 'gift giver' would enjoy seing her happy and would try to organize such a meeting. And it's damn way more cool and original than getting a cliche rose bouquet. Of course problems arize when incompatible join. When she wants a walk through a park but she gets a walk to the morgue or viceversa but there's no such thing as 'this or that is more romantic' romantic is seeing the person next to you happy, the rest is only a means to an end. As for Valentines Day? ,are you kidding me? I'm an NF every day is Valentines day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I completely agree with everything you just said. Although, I may only be commenting due to my obsession with museums. :blushed:
But I don't generally like traditional gifts either. Maybe it's because of that INFJ tendency to see into your soul! lol... It's totally what's behind the gift that makes the difference. If a guy gives me chocolate and roses because he wants to give me something but he's awkward and doesn't know what to give, that's totally sweet. If a guy gives me that stuff because he's too dumb to put thought into it, that's somewhat repulsive... You know?


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## Alchemical Romance

Irulan said:


> I completely agree with everything you just said. Although, I may only be commenting due to my obsession with museums. :blushed:
> But I don't generally like traditional gifts either. Maybe it's because of that INFJ tendency to see into your soul! lol... It's totally what's behind the gift that makes the difference. If a guy gives me chocolate and roses because he wants to give me something but he's awkward and doesn't know what to give, that's totally sweet. If a guy gives me that stuff because he's too dumb to put thought into it, that's somewhat repulsive... You know?


I completely agree with your message (and not because you started your post with the fact that you completely agree with me  ) For me it's important the feeling behind the gift. I'll settle even for a hug if it's well meant and came from the heart...i have no use for gold and silver...i'm not a werewolf hunter...in fact just as opossite as much as i hate those things maybe i'm a werewolf myself. Also I hate getting presents and expecting something in return...you know boys that give jewelry and expect sex for it, and women that go viceversa. It's so cheap. :sad:


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## perennialurker

I have a very old fashioned and admittedly foolish perspective on this matter. I will probably regret even revealing this about me, but I have a very strong "knight in shining armor" complex. I have no idea why this is, but I have always seen myself as the "good guy" who comes along and rescues a damsel in distress and then proceeds to protect her and keep her safe and happy from the evils of the world. 

Yeah it probably won't be long before I delete this, but at least I said it.


Are other NT males like this?


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## picablue

Being in love forces me to be a nice person, a kind person who thinks about how her actions will impact others. It feels sort of goofy to me, but I like it.


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## Bluebird

wow..... after reading all these pages.. I found NTs quite intriguing......particularly intjs......
I don't any in real life, and I doubt I would meet one anyway since intjs and infps are introverts, no one would make a first move and I would need to be in the T mode for you to talk me:dry:
But I think I do know an ENTx (probably a p), and it's soo fun, coz we spend most of our times arguing and debating with each other (in a friendly way of coz):laughing:.
NTs never fail to impress me with their interesting theories :laughing:


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## giraffe11

LeelooDallas said:


> the INFP boyfriend said that he basically wants me to smother him..Of my idea of smothering is probably only about 25% of what his idea is


Take that as a compliment. For me personally, I love affection, but I don't want it from just anyone. If I want it AND can openly ask for it...then damn. I want you to be all over me all the time baby. :blushed:

P.S. I love this thread. NTs should post more thoughts/experiences on romance here.


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## intj123

perennialurker said:


> I have a very old fashioned and admittedly foolish perspective on this matter. I will probably regret even revealing this about me, but I have a very strong "knight in shining armor" complex. I have no idea why this is, but I have always seen myself as the "good guy" who comes along and rescues a damsel in distress and then proceeds to protect her and keep her safe and happy from the evils of the world.
> 
> Yeah it probably won't be long before I delete this, but at least I said it.
> 
> 
> Are other NT males like this?


I can relate somewhat, it's just the very masculine character of intj. Romance is a tricky thing though, and I only try to be romantic if I really think it could get serious, or if I'm sprung.


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## OrangeAppled

I'm not into mushy gushy stuff - it makes me roll my eyes. My idea of romance is more along the lines of Romanticism. I like things that are a little dark or with a tinge of tragedy.

I can appreciate the symbolism behind a gesture like giving flowers though, and I do enjoy the natural beauty. I don't feel like something has to be long lasting to be a good gift - and to me, romance is in the _gesture_, not in an item. I'm not the kind who wants to hang on to a lot of sentimental stuff anyway. If I can simply experience it for a moment, then that's just fine. 

Anything that opens up an avenue to connect more with someone is the ultimate in romance for me. The most romantic movie for me is _Before Sunrise_ - two strangers, spontaneously meeting, exploring a foreign city, just talking about everything.

I have an ENFJ friend who is BIG on e-card giving on b-days and holidays, and even though I think it's rather cliche, for him it is genuine and I appreciate where it's coming from. I love when someone tailors something for ME of course. The same friend sends me b-sides and rarities from my favorite bands, or their latest album, or some new band he think I might like - that's cool, because I'm a big music fan. Even better is that he is very verbally affectionate.

------

I dated one INTP who was kind of romantic. He'd send me songs he thought I'd like that were romantic in nature, or photos he took, or poems that struck him that he thought I'd enjoy also. That was sweet, but I never felt like he went out of his way. At least he thought of me when coming across these things (or was he just trying to impress me with his taste...?). The most romantic thing about him was he gave very unique compliments. He'd be like, "You have a hot brain" or "I like those big brown orbs on your face", which was cute.


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## Grey

Romance, to me, is stability and support. Being in a serious relationship means I will (or at least try to) go out of my way to support and to stay along with my partner, even if it means that I have to go against my first instinct, which is to argue or to critique. That's my basic idea, and I hope that my partner would reciprocate. That's simply a base idea, however - in practice, it's much harder shaping to the person's individual needs. This could mean adapting the meaning to include more classic romance, but it all depends.

All I want, in everyday life, is just two people who can act independently of each other throughout their days, and when everything winds down, take a seat, have a breather, and share their experiences. I'd, of course, wish to spend a lot of private time together doing dual activities, but the number one part is that there would be enough security for the pair to not have to spend every waking moment together to confirm the relationship.

I don't find romance unnecessary, but I find it awkward, especially at my age. Considering how far this topic has gone, I'm sure how well I addressed it, but hopefully it was alright.


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## Rouge

OrangeAppled said:


> I'm not into mushy gushy stuff - it makes me roll my eyes. My idea of romance is more along the lines of Romanticism. I like things that are a little dark or with a tinge of tragedy.
> 
> I can appreciate the symbolism behind a gesture like giving flowers though, and I do enjoy the natural beauty. I don't feel like something has to be long lasting to be a good gift - and to me, romance is in the _gesture_, not in an item. I'm not the kind who wants to hang on to a lot of sentimental stuff anyway. If I can simply experience it for a moment, then that's just fine.
> 
> Anything that opens up an avenue to connect more with someone is the ultimate in romance for me. The most romantic movie for me is _Before Sunrise_ - two strangers, spontaneously meeting, exploring a foreign city, just talking about everything.
> 
> I have an ENFJ friend who is BIG on e-card giving on b-days and holidays, and even though I think it's rather cliche, for him it is genuine and I appreciate where it's coming from. I love when someone tailors something for ME of course. The same friend sends me b-sides and rarities from my favorite bands, or their latest album, or some new band he think I might like - that's cool, because I'm a big music fan. Even better is that he is very verbally affectionate.
> 
> ------
> 
> I dated one INTP who was kind of romantic. He'd send me songs he thought I'd like that were romantic in nature, or photos he took, or poems that struck him that he thought I'd enjoy also. That was sweet, but I never felt like he went out of his way. At least he thought of me when coming across these things (or was he just trying to impress me with his taste...?). The most romantic thing about him was he gave very unique compliments. He'd be like, "You have a hot brain" or "I like those big brown orbs on your face", which was cute.


OrangeAppled, we're so alike when it comes to romance! Before Sunrise and the sequel Before Sunset are to me the most romantic movies ever. It turns me on to talk and connect on a deep level with someone, even if most of what we talk about is about life, philosophy etc. It's not so much what the other person does, but the connection we establish. I also feel exactly the same way as you do about romance being more in the gesture, than item. I'd take something thoughtful and meaningful over something expensive any day. They don't have to be big overblown gestures (that would embarrass me), I'm touched just as long as the person has made some effort to understand me and give me what I'd appreciate.


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## Alchemical Romance

OrangeAppled said:


> I'm not the kind who wants to hang on to a lot of sentimental stuff anyway. If I can simply experience it for a moment, then that's just fine.
> .


Are you talking about the whole relationship or only the gift?


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## ArianBelle

Interesting, I consider myself to be a hopeless romantic lol but I have my moments... or maybe it's the Aries in me?? I can't understand people that aren't romantic. But I do agree that stuff like flowers, I don't like, it's going to die, get me chocolates instead :laughing:


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## penxv

perennialurker said:


> I have a very old fashioned and admittedly foolish perspective on this matter. I will probably regret even revealing this about me, but I have a very strong "knight in shining armor" complex. I have no idea why this is, but I have always seen myself as the "good guy" who comes along and rescues a damsel in distress and then proceeds to protect her and keep her safe and happy from the evils of the world.
> 
> Yeah it probably won't be long before I delete this, but at least I said it.
> 
> 
> Are other NT males like this?


I used to be. I think that it is a bit naive, though. You really can't make other people happy, and being eager in that regard puts you at risk of being manipulated, which I can't stand. It's like "damn it woman, if you want me to do something, just ask me."


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## penxv

And that is the other thing... the "concept of romance" is inherently manipulative in my eyes. And because I can't stand being manipulated, it is hard for me to express desire honestly.


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## OrangeAppled

Alchemical Romance said:


> Are you talking about the whole relationship or only the gift?


Not the whole relationship :laughing:. I would like that to last, ideally, if I was in one....
I meant the "gift", or a moment of romance (ie. a shared experience/connection). In a round-about way, I was responding to the idea that live flowers or candy are not good romantic gifts because they don't last more than a few days usually. To me, it's about the gesture, and the memory of that will last. I don't need objects to hold onto.


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## chuckpalstoboot

Because we don't really connect to people on an emotional level, more of an intellectual one, romance is different. I love sitting down and talking to people for hours on end about philosophy, life, politics, etc. When people talk about emotions, it makes me uncomfortable because A) it's counter-intuitive for me to understand them and B) I'm always afraid I'll unexpectedly offend them if I try to be objective.

I would be perfectly satisfied with chocolate, though I would not consider it a romantic gesture.
And I think it's unanimous that everyone hates flowers.


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