# The Hardest Person You'll Ever Have to Type



## WhiteChocolateDrip (Jun 1, 2015)

@PillowtopMermaid Well you caught me  I've been guilty of dating INFJ's almost exclusively so I have a little experience with them! hmm I like that hobby, sounds much better than sneaking onto PC at work  Your seeking after self discovery is in a manner that I have seen in other INFJ's as well, and remember just because you develop strength in other functions doesn't change your type. Rather it makes you more balanced! So take heart, I have no idea how an NF household is run haha, but I'd imagine someone has to be the objective one so koodos! Psh ENTPS find INFJs Adorkable, so no worries there! Sounds like a fun household! Oh also remember Nature and Nurture go hand in hand, so a certain type of upbringing will influence you and its only normal and natural! We are much more unique then 16 different types though sometimes the ST's make me wonder...


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## SiFan (Mar 10, 2015)

PillowtopMermaid said:


> ....
> 
> I'm definately a Ni dom, there's no questioning that.
> 
> ...


Hi, PillowtopMermaid!

Based upon what is probably the best MBTI test on the net and upon your comments-- fun reading, ... Clearly, you are *INFJ*.



> Okay, here's the part where I'm suppossed to describe what I mean by being Te and Fe at the same time ....


No need. We have eight functions. Just because your characteristic stack is Ni Fe Ti Se doesn't mean you don't use Te or Ne, Si, or Fi. Being a relatively high-T INFJ is an interesting plus.

Congrats on finding your type so quickly!


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## Bricolage (Jul 29, 2012)

PillowtopMermaid said:


> Hello! Long time lurker, new subscriber.
> 
> I just might be one of the hardest people ever to type. I'm curious to see if anyone here can successfully type me (I'm actually stuck between 2 types for myself, but I want to see if others get stuck between these same 2 or stick me as something competely different.). So, I'll be completely and utterly cooperative and honest with any tests, questions, "what would you do" scenarios, or anything else one might need for my typing. Anyone want to take me up on this challenge?


Video?


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

@PillowtopMermaid

EDIT: I read the whole thing, now I'm not sure.

"I will get aggressive, angry and even resentful if someone puts subjective, crappy logic or emotion in front of logical fact staring both of us in the face."

Say more on this. Give me examples of such logical facts.


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## PillowtopMermaid (Nov 9, 2015)

myst91 said:


> @PillowtopMermaid
> 
> EDIT: I read the whole thing, now I'm not sure.
> 
> ...



Sorry it took me a while to reply - rough week at Uni.

Anyway, the biggest cause of this frustration can best be defined as willful ignorance. People who deny well proven, objective scientific fact bother the hell out of me. Take for instance incredibly religious people, who deny evolution or the existence of dinosaurs, simply because holding some belief makes them know better. These people have no respect for the scientific method or sense of wonder for discovery. They are satisfied having everything spelled out for them, already predefined. I understand faith is important for some people, but to redefine reality based on feelings or whatever is just....asinine. You see this also with the anti-vax crowd. They don't seem to mind or even notice their worldview gets people killed - this is proven - but they have redefined their own reality to the point to where no matter what evidence is thrown at them, they'll never budge on their opinions, even if they get sick. I used overly simplistic examples here to better explain myself, but keep in mind that this is just so common in so many people, albeit in smaller ways, and it makes me have trouble getting close to a lot of people.

I also have little patience for people who refuse to see both sides of an issue. Think sociological theory - feminist theory here is a good example. Struggles of women have been well-defined, and yet you see people who deny the existence of women's experiences because they go and cherry pick a study or something that agrees with them, or they throw out a strawman argument or a litany of ad hominem and cement themselves in their own opinion, killing any empathy or learning.

You see this in racists, too. There's a literal mountain of evidence of what racial oppression does to people, the history is there, and no scientific evidence that any race is generally superior to another. Yet, good luck getting them to see any of that. I hate people with clear and enthusiastic bias against any group.

Conspiracy theorists fall under this umbrella, too, but I doubt I need to really elaborate on how angry illogical conspiracy theories makes me.

You see what I mean? 

TL;DR: Main point: I suppose people just attempting to redefine reality based on their own subjective belief infuriates me, or people who refuse to empathise and see all sides of an issue and investigate things neutrally and from various perspectives, with the ultimate goal of complete understanding in mind. People want to reassert their own biases WAY too often. IT KILLS LEARNING slhksdhflshfkldf


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## WhiteChocolateDrip (Jun 1, 2015)

I think INFJs are allowed to hate stupid people as well  Hmm I shall administer a simple test, have you ever imagined yourself riding a Unicorn?


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## WhiteChocolateDrip (Jun 1, 2015)

If the answer is yes as I would guess, I shall confirm that you are an INFJ.


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## PillowtopMermaid (Nov 9, 2015)

WhiteChocolateDrip said:


> I think INFJs are allowed to hate stupid people as well  Hmm I shall administer a simple test, have you ever imagined yourself riding a Unicorn?


No, because riding a Rhino like in Donkey Kong Country 2 would be so much more badass!


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## shameless (Apr 21, 2014)

The Hardest Person You'll Ever Have to Type

Lol easiest to type title says it all NFP type 4w5

Ok then I went further down and you actually gave us something to work with I agree with NFJ


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

PillowtopMermaid said:


> TL;DR: Main point: I suppose people just attempting to redefine reality based on their own subjective belief infuriates me, or people who refuse to empathise and see all sides of an issue and investigate things neutrally and from various perspectives, with the ultimate goal of complete understanding in mind. People want to reassert their own biases WAY too often. IT KILLS LEARNING slhksdhflshfkldf


OK this sounds more like Fe/Ti than anything.


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## sweaters (Nov 21, 2014)

You are an ISTP.


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## PillowtopMermaid (Nov 9, 2015)

sweaters said:


> You are an ISTP.


This is kind of ridiculous. Mind telling me why you'd type me as a sensor when I overwhelmingly do not use Se, or even Si?

I have the poorest grasp of Se of anyone I know. No matter how hard I try, I can never live in the moment - and when I try, I realize the irony of trying to live in the moment is just concentrating on trying to live in the moment, and that defeats the purpose. I have no spatial ability, so much that it has detrimental effects in life (I get lost retardedly easy, can't tell directions (N,S,E,W) based on my orientation at any given time unless I'm literally facing due North, I can't measure size or distance by my eye at all, ect., I tend to stare off into space a lot, lost in my thoughts with the outside world muted and in mosaic, and through people to the point where people think there's something wrong with me or I walk into people, walls, traffic (seriously almost got hit by a car once like that) )
I'm shit at noticing details in the world unless they're drastically different from what I'm used to (i.e the important stuff on my desk is moved - and because I'm so shit at noticing details, I set things up in a specific way so I can know if they've been tampered with later...) 



Where are you getting this? I just gotta know.


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## PillowtopMermaid (Nov 9, 2015)

myst91 said:


> OK this sounds more like Fe/Ti than anything.


lol I think you got me there...Well, okay, I think I am at peace now with INFJ. You really solved my dilemma with Ti vs Te! Thank you for putting it into perspective.


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## sweaters (Nov 21, 2014)

PillowtopMermaid said:


> This is kind of ridiculous. Mind telling me why you'd type me as a sensor when I overwhelmingly do not use Se, or even Si?
> 
> I have the poorest grasp of Se of anyone I know. No matter how hard I try, I can never live in the moment - and when I try, I realize the irony of trying to live in the moment is just concentrating on trying to live in the moment, and that defeats the purpose. I have no spatial ability, so much that it has detrimental effects in life (I get lost retardedly easy, can't tell directions (N,S,E,W) based on my orientation at any given time unless I'm literally facing due North, I can't measure size or distance by my eye at all, ect., I tend to stare off into space a lot, lost in my thoughts with the outside world muted and in mosaic, and through people to the point where people think there's something wrong with me or I walk into people, walls, traffic (seriously almost got hit by a car once like that) )
> I'm shit at noticing details in the world unless they're drastically different from what I'm used to (i.e the important stuff on my desk is moved - and because I'm so shit at noticing details, I set things up in a specific way so I can know if they've been tampered with later...)
> ...


Lol, well my first reason was that overall you sound like a lot of ISTP's I know, and your Ti is used too well and too much in an active mode to simply be a well-developed tertiary function. Also you're passively attuned to the logistics of a situation, with any Fe being very strong but very brief, emotion otherwise completely disregarded or only implied.

On top of that, your mode of thought has a very certain Ni/Se flow to it, but you also navigated material in a very physical sense. Ni was certainly there tailoring the things you were saying, but from what I could tell it was definitely secondary to Se. I'm skimming a bit over your longer post on Page 2 and you seem primarily concerned with fleshing out your points with more tangible data or happenings, while Ni seems to be helping rather than leading.

I mean I could be wrong though. You seem kind of unhappy with the idea of ISTP and I hope it's not because of the S, Se is great first of all, and I just saw you as being undeniably Ti oriented and a little Se heavy. I mostly skimmed anyways


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## PillowtopMermaid (Nov 9, 2015)

sweaters said:


> Lol, well my first reason was that overall you sound like a lot of ISTP's I know, and your Ti is used too well and too much in an active mode to simply be a well-developed tertiary function. Also you're passively attuned to the logistics of a situation, with any Fe being very strong but very brief, emotion otherwise completely disregarded or only implied.
> 
> On top of that, your mode of thought has a very certain Ni/Se flow to it, but you also navigated material in a very physical sense. Ni was certainly there tailoring the things you were saying, but from what I could tell it was definitely secondary to Se. I'm skimming a bit over your longer post on Page 2 and you seem primarily concerned with fleshing out your points with more tangible data or happenings, while Ni seems to be helping rather than leading.
> 
> I mean I could be wrong though. You seem kind of unhappy with the idea of ISTP and I hope it's not because of the S, Se is great first of all, and I just saw you as being undeniably Ti oriented and a little Se heavy. I mostly skimmed anyways


Mmmmm, I probably came off that way, and I'm really sorry if I sounded aggressive and made you uncomfortable. You see, my father AND my mother in law are both ISTPs (and Cancers, birthdays a few days apart, I'm really unconvinced that it's not just one person who wears wigs and dresses and swaps places at family things), and of all the people I've encountered in my life, those two not only understand me the least (And all I've ever wanted from anyone is just someone to at least TRY to understand me, since I seem to undersand others so easily) but they get angry and resentful that I'm not what they think I should be. I get offended by their willingness to seize oppurtunity, no matter what the future cost might be to someone else, and they see my relentless clinging to my ideals and dreams as "Childish", and well as my general emotionalness and focus on the overall emotion of the situation primarily and -then- the logical attributes as being annoying and useless - they don't seem overly concerned with hurting people's feelings. We just do not connect on any level.

Really, I'm also feeling discouraged. Every test I've ever taken has typed me as INFJ except the last, where I tested INTJ by a small margin. In socionics, I've tested as LII (MBTI INTP equivalent), ILI (MBTI INTJ) and EII (MBTI INFP) and IEI (MBTI INFJ) all at 90%~ probability (Sociotype.com) Ennegram wise, I've typed as 2w1, 1w2, 5w6, and 6w5.

Now, actual PEOPLE have typed me as this exhaustive list:
INFJ
INTJ
ENFJ
ENFP
INFP
ISFJ
INTP
ISTJ 
and now, ISTP

I'm really discouraged. How can MBTI mean anything if I've everything and yet nothing at all? I've always compared myself to a labyrinith though, and the number one thing I have ever wanted in life is for people to understand and hopefully approve (or love! Love is good!) of me. I was hoping being able to at least type myself would give me a tool of not only self-understanding, but an olive branch I could reach to others in the effort of mutual - not just the usual one sided (my-sided) - understanding. (Slightly related and annoying: People love to vomit how they feel to me and all their problems and then never really engage me back.....but when I try and talk to them they look at me like I have 14 heads and speak an alien language.)

All my life people have attributed whatever motives they could guess me of having to me, without giving me the chance to speak up for myself. (I am notoriously soft-spoken and unintrusive and hesitant, so there's that (except in uni lectures, oddly)(Also, I have a really hard time talking to people because I'm so concerned with finding the EXACT right words to sum up something that I take forever to talk, so the moment passes or people don't listen and then it's over)). I am so afraid of hurting or bothering anyone that I let them get away with this to the point where it breaks my heart and I dwell years on the loneliness of being misunderstood, with no one ever wanting to listen or care to figure out who I am (but note that if I hurt someone unintentionally or not, I do the same dwelling, so I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't). I get so scared about how people think of me that I just stop talking to people. 

Now, please note, I'm not referring to you! Actually, the ISTPs mentioned above were the worst offenders....hence the prickliness before.


But now you can see why I chose the thread title - "The Hardest Person You'll Ever Have to Type".


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## PillowtopMermaid (Nov 9, 2015)

Bricolage said:


> Video?


I guess I'm desperately obsessive enough for closure that I could, even though I'm admittedly very camera shy and nervous about people looking directly at me XD Any recommendations about a questionairre I could answer, or some format to the video, you know, for organizational and efficiency purposes?


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## sweaters (Nov 21, 2014)

PillowtopMermaid said:


> Mmmmm, I probably came off that way, and I'm really sorry if I sounded aggressive and made you uncomfortable. You see, my father AND my mother in law are both ISTPs (and Cancers, birthdays a few days apart, I'm really unconvinced that it's not just one person who wears wigs and dresses and swaps places at family things), and of all the people I've encountered in my life, those two not only understand me the least (And all I've ever wanted from anyone is just someone to at least TRY to understand me, since I seem to undersand others so easily) but they get angry and resentful that I'm not what they think I should be. I get offended by their willingness to seize oppurtunity, no matter what the future cost might be to someone else, and they see my relentless clinging to my ideals and dreams as "Childish", and well as my general emotionalness and focus on the overall emotion of the situation primarily and -then- the logical attributes as being annoying and useless - they don't seem overly concerned with hurting people's feelings. We just do not connect on any level.
> 
> Really, I'm also feeling discouraged. Every test I've ever taken has typed me as INFJ except the last, where I tested INTJ by a small margin. In socionics, I've tested as LII (MBTI INTP equivalent), ILI (MBTI INTJ) and EII (MBTI INFP) and IEI (MBTI INFJ) all at 90%~ probability (Sociotype.com) Ennegram wise, I've typed as 2w1, 1w2, 5w6, and 6w5.
> 
> ...


Listen, you're not gonna find what you're looking for on this forum. Even if someone figures out what type you are, how are you going to know if they're right? If you're anything like me it will only get more ambiguous.

I don't know exactly what stage you're at in finding your type or cultivating a subjective understanding of the theory, but what did it for me was taking a break from reading about the theory completely. I just started observing myself and others and slowly redefined how I understood the functions. And trust me, I did NOT have an easy time figuring out my type! 

Also I feel the same way a lot of the time, that my ability to extravert is hindered by other people's responses to me. For a long time I was very enclosed in myself, and I turned into that kind of labyrinth you mentioned, where nothing ever lands anywhere. My advice is, don't think so much about type for a while. The point of type is discovery and understanding - you can do that without knowing what type you are, but you can't if you're always trying to fit yourself into a box. Just give it a little time


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## PillowtopMermaid (Nov 9, 2015)

sweaters said:


> Listen, you're not gonna find what you're looking for on this forum. Even if someone figures out what type you are, how are you going to know if they're right? If you're anything like me it will only get more ambiguous.
> 
> I don't know exactly what stage you're at in finding your type or cultivating a subjective understanding of the theory, but what did it for me was taking a break from reading about the theory completely. I just started observing myself and others and slowly redefined how I understood the functions. And trust me, I did NOT have an easy time figuring out my type!
> 
> Also I feel the same way a lot of the time, that my ability to extravert is hindered by other people's responses to me. For a long time I was very enclosed in myself, and I turned into that kind of labyrinth you mentioned, where nothing ever lands anywhere. My advice is, don't think so much about type for a while. The point of type is discovery and understanding - you can do that without knowing what type you are, but you can't if you're always trying to fit yourself into a box. Just give it a little time



Thank you for being so understanding. I totally know you're right about what you're saying (also, my husband is literally saying the same thing, except with an added "Honey, I know you better than anyone, and I know MBTI, and you're an INFJ NOW STOP") I have this insatiable obsession to find closure and perfection in everything and this is no exception >.> I suppose I will post a video, see what people have to say about how I express myself on a visual level, and then follow your advice and like, set my laptop on fire and hide under a bed for a month so I can quit.

(I'm self-aware enough to be laughing at myself cause I'm like "I should stop!...but just...just gotta do ONE MORE THING" and that's so typical >.> I can never let anything go, even when it's almost physically painful to not do so)


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

PillowtopMermaid said:


> lol I think you got me there...Well, okay, I think I am at peace now with INFJ. You really solved my dilemma with Ti vs Te! Thank you for putting it into perspective.


No problem


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

PillowtopMermaid said:


> I have the poorest grasp of Se of anyone I know. No matter how hard I try, I can never live in the moment - and when I try, I realize the irony of trying to live in the moment is just concentrating on trying to live in the moment, and that defeats the purpose. I have no spatial ability, so much that it has detrimental effects in life (I get lost retardedly easy, can't tell directions (N,S,E,W) based on my orientation at any given time unless I'm literally facing due North, I can't measure size or distance by my eye at all, ect., I tend to stare off into space a lot, lost in my thoughts with the outside world muted and in mosaic, and through people to the point where people think there's something wrong with me or I walk into people, walls, traffic (seriously almost got hit by a car once like that) )
> I'm shit at noticing details in the world unless they're drastically different from what I'm used to (i.e the important stuff on my desk is moved - and because I'm so shit at noticing details, I set things up in a specific way so I can know if they've been tampered with later...)


Don't get too upset at people giving you their guesses based on very little data. Most of those guesses are worth nothing. You gave this long list of types people guessed for you so far, it is mostly meaningless. I do not believe you can type someone from just a couple posts unless it is very very unambiguous you being stereotypical blahblah. Most posts and expressions online and irl are *not* to be expected to be free from ambiguity. That's because everyone uses all 8 functions, just most of them are not the differentiated main functions and also because there is more factors working in everyone than just information processing. So it takes time to see the differentiated function(s), the dominant function and some sort of an auxiliary with it emerging against the background of noise from other stuff. 

You are already well aware of how Se is one of your main weaknesses. Congratulations for having already ascertained that pattern.  Definitely a strong contender for inferior Se here. If you can imagine integrating some of Se slowly over time and that helping your dominant function in a complementary way then I would say that it is definitely your inferior function.

By the way you sound like the opposite of me with your Se use  ...I've been typed ESTP a few times though I believe I'm ISTP actually with strong Se focus.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

sweaters said:


> Lol, well my first reason was that overall you sound like a lot of ISTP's I know, and your Ti is used too well and too much in an active mode to simply be a well-developed tertiary function. Also you're passively attuned to the logistics of a situation, with any Fe being very strong but very brief, emotion otherwise completely disregarded or only implied.
> 
> On top of that, your mode of thought has a very certain Ni/Se flow to it, but you also navigated material in a very physical sense. Ni was certainly there tailoring the things you were saying, but from what I could tell it was definitely secondary to Se. I'm skimming a bit over your longer post on Page 2 and you seem primarily concerned with fleshing out your points with more tangible data or happenings, while Ni seems to be helping rather than leading.
> 
> I mean I could be wrong though. You seem kind of unhappy with the idea of ISTP and I hope it's not because of the S, Se is great first of all, and I just saw you as being undeniably Ti oriented and a little Se heavy. I mostly skimmed anyways


I recommend you read my post one above this one. It's meant for you too. And yes it means that my input isn't as good either as someone's who's seen a LOT more of the OP's expressions and thoughts. But I hope we can help OP recognize the type related patterns in herself.

I do not see this active Ti and Se in any of the posts of the OP that you speak of. I see some Ti but not exactly dominant Ti.

Give me examples of such Se tangible data the OP has used. I have not seen anything being navigated in such a physical sense. So I am intrigued as to how you would see that so differently...

Also the Fe, I see it as more pervasive in OP than in the ISTPs. I can find you examples if you want.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

PillowtopMermaid said:


> Mmmmm, I probably came off that way, and I'm really sorry if I sounded aggressive and made you uncomfortable. You see, my father AND my mother in law are both ISTPs (and Cancers, birthdays a few days apart, I'm really unconvinced that it's not just one person who wears wigs and dresses and swaps places at family things), and of all the people I've encountered in my life, those two not only understand me the least (And all I've ever wanted from anyone is just someone to at least TRY to understand me, since I seem to undersand others so easily) but they get angry and resentful that I'm not what they think I should be. I get offended by their willingness to seize oppurtunity, no matter what the future cost might be to someone else, and they see my relentless clinging to my ideals and dreams as "Childish", and well as my general emotionalness and focus on the overall emotion of the situation primarily and -then- the logical attributes as being annoying and useless - they don't seem overly concerned with hurting people's feelings. We just do not connect on any level.


This intrigues me that you have some much trouble with the ISTPs. I assume you are typing them by functions and not just by dichotomies, yes? As an ISTP (by functions, I do not really believe in the J/P thing otherwise), I find that INFJs aren't totally aliens, though yes, on a level they are, lol, but I can try and understand them and then feel like I actually learned something from it... Do you never feel that with any ISTPs? Say, for example I like the Ni and Fe use even though it is very different from how I am... it can sometimes teach me something. Or the Se for you - you get offended by the ISTPs seizing opportunities. Why? Why don't you just show them what the future consequences may be without resenting that the ISTPs don't easily see it themselves? Of course they should also try to understand you more..




> I've always compared myself to a labyrinith though


Haha that actually sounds cool. I know another INFJ who talks like this too.




> People love to vomit how they feel to me and all their problems and then never really engage me back.....but when I try and talk to them they look at me like I have 14 heads and speak an alien language.)


Are you spilling a load of Ni on them? 




> All my life people have attributed whatever motives they could guess me of having to me, without giving me the chance to speak up for myself. (I am notoriously soft-spoken and unintrusive and hesitant, so there's that (except in uni lectures, oddly)(Also, I have a really hard time talking to people because I'm so concerned with finding the EXACT right words to sum up something that I take forever to talk, so the moment passes or people don't listen and then it's over)). I am so afraid of hurting or bothering anyone that I let them get away with this to the point where it breaks my heart and I dwell years on the loneliness of being misunderstood, with no one ever wanting to listen or care to figure out who I am (but note that if I hurt someone unintentionally or not, I do the same dwelling, so I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't). I get so scared about how people think of me that I just stop talking to people.


You do need to learn to toughen up a bit  People should stand up for themselves so it's not only your own responsibility in terms of trying to avoid hurting them.




> But now you can see why I chose the thread title - "The Hardest Person You'll Ever Have to Type".


You actually seem to have pretty well differentiated Ni/Fe functions.. I've seen far more ambiguous stuff on this forum. I can ofcourse be wrong :shrug As I said you need to see and understand your own mind's processing for yourself.

I took quite a long time to find my typing btw. Probably longer than you  But it works. Not that it is magic or anything but it's clear to me now. 

Btw I'll have a guess also that you have a superego enneagram. That 1/2/6 are all good contenders. You don't seem like a 5 at all. My guess - rather tentative guess, more so than the MBTI type I gave for you - is 6w5 over the other two.


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## myst91 (Sep 9, 2014)

sweaters said:


> Listen, you're not gonna find what you're looking for on this forum. Even if someone figures out what type you are, how are you going to know if they're right? If you're anything like me it will only get more ambiguous.


Actually this is a good point; everyone needs to understand the theory ideas for themselves. Your advice on how to do it is pretty fine.




> (...) My advice is, don't think so much about type for a while. The point of type is discovery and understanding - you can do that without knowing what type you are, but you can't if you're always trying to fit yourself into a box. Just give it a little time


Though this part of your advice, while it may work for the OP, it would not have worked for me. I'm indeed better off (maybe due to being Ti-dom) if I always try looking at the stuff throughout utilizing those "boxes". However, to me the "boxes" are not the simple stereotypes as there is a deeper point of the system. And that's what I've tried to view things through. And that helped me.


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