# The importance of Feeling to a Thinker



## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Okay, this may be a strange title coming from an INTP. No real use for Fe, right? In fact, that is the reason that I find this so fascinating; because Fe is so unnatural to me, I struggle to do certain things in the world that come very naturally to others. But often I don't even understand what it really means to use Feeling in everyday life, or how or why. I recently had a sort of epiphany; While Ti dominants may find the internet a perfectly safe and well structured environment, it can actually encourage us to ignore the importance of our Fe/Fi in the rest of our daily lives.

What is Feeling to me? I can only view it through the eyes of my other functions really. It is another, more simply devised form of thinking to me. Instead of having to break down everything, rationalize it and come to a conclusion, you simply Feel what is right and what is not. Thus Feeling to me is the combination of subconscious thinking and conscious ethics. Many NT types might wonder, "What use is this if you are capable of understanding everything at its actual face value?" That's just the issue though: to a Thinker, there is no such thing as face value unless you use Feeling to give it such. *Thinkers are dependent on Feeling to give them reason for everything*, whether or not they are aware of this. What reason is there to do or think anything if there is no ethical or emotional connection? What value does anything have if all can be dissolved into logic and math?

A lack of Feeling can inhibit not only our passion and our values, but also our daily lives. Body language and interpersonal connections can seem meaningless without Fe, and yet we need them as well. As much as I understood the basic idea behind physical cues and body language, I never valued it enough to really believe that it could impact my life directly. Now, I realize that the way I hold myself reflects my feelings, how I subconsciously perceive myself, and that this will be reflected outwardly to every person who sees me. They in turn perceive me similarly to how I perceive myself at face value. I have had a low self esteem my entire life due to my personal circumstance, but never did I imagine that this was the reason that I could not be a constructive part of my community. By showing through my body language, my feeling, how much I hated, feared and distrusted myself, I led everybody around me to hate, fear and mistrust me. And by showing through body language that I felt vulnerable and weak, those around me who might take advantage saw an opportunity.

So if you're a Thinker, share your insight on how Feeling is important (or maybe unimportant) in your life, and if you're a Feeler, perhaps you can shed some light on how important Feeling can be when interacting with the rest of the world.


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## Lokkye (Dec 28, 2009)

Feeling allows you to connect to other people.
If you're always cold and aloof, and not open to other people's ideas there's no room for growth.
I'll talk from the perspective of a borderline feeler.
Facts and such could be interesting but you've got a point there, without the emotional value intertwined with those facts, there would be no real value in having them if no one can relate to them anyways. Feeling and Thinking are separate ways of thinking, however they need to work together in order to have total equality in this world.
If everyone was thinking then it would be like we were all robots, however feeling gives it some traction and relatability, whatever your thinking is. Feeling also gives you a different perspective since Feelers gather information differently as to Thinkers. Not everything can be objective.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Lokkye said:


> Feeling allows you to connect to other people.
> If you're always cold and aloof, and not open to other people's ideas there's no room for growth.
> I'll talk from the perspective of a borderline feeler.
> Facts and such could be interesting but you've got a point there, without the emotional value intertwined with those facts, there would be no real value in having them if no one can relate to them anyways. Feeling and Thinking are separate ways of thinking, however they need to work together in order to have total equality in this world.
> If everyone was thinking then it would be like we were all robots, however feeling gives it some traction and relatability, whatever your thinking is. Feeling also gives you a different perspective since Feelers gather information differently as to Thinkers. Not everything can be objective.


I really appreciate your perspective, especially that last line... not everything can be objective. I find this completely true in my life, and it's something that I actually struggle with sometimes. What do you do when you are forced to make a subjective decision, without logical reasons behind it? Sometimes I just come to a standstill, because I'm so hesitant to use my heart instead of my head, even when it's important. I feel like I can't trust my feelings because they aren't objective, and yet they're the only reason I keep living and striving. Even if I make a bad decision, I still have to make it based on what I feel like I need, not just pure logic.


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## LittleHawk (Feb 15, 2011)

I'm a feeler, but you have to consider nobody is 100% of either - so really you're already a feeler, just not dominantly so. I'm a feeler yet I analyze absolutely everything so in essence you could say that I'm constantly thinking of how my feelings affect me.
And in a way you are doing the same, your considering how your thinking affects your feelings.. It was very interesting reading your post however and I look forward to hearing from other thinkers.


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## nameno1had (Jan 16, 2011)

I've often considered the validity of not only thoughts, but feelings as well.I've asked myself what their relevance is as stimuli in the human experience.I feel and/or thinkconfusedthis is a sensitive subject if it is taken to particular extremes.I'll attempt to refrain from doing that and stick to what seemed to be the intent of the thread creator.Its my opinion that the statement I made a few sentences ago sheds some light on the place of feelings to a thinker.They go hand in hand and one without the other takes away from what they are at their core.You could possibly not have much frontal lobe activity,but feel emotions.Likewise, you could have a mind full of thoughts and perhaps be rather numb emotionally, be it from substance use or some other stimulus. 
In other words,the thoughts we have define the feelings we have.Those feelings we have,that we associate with our thoughts, give them a greater clarity.This is similar to that of acquiring wisdom via experience compared to gaining knowledge from learning apart from actually experiencing the thing learned about.
In an attempt to go a step further without opening a can of worms I will simply say from my experience I have had thoughts and feelings for whatever reason that seem to be unfit for one another in terms of how my decisions should be made as a result of what I think and feel.I realize that sounds a bit off the wall on the surface or maybe like some sort of mental illness.However,I am sure that many people would attest to the fact that they have had thoughts that "weren't healthy" as perhaps a result of being wronged that were accompanied by feelings that were sad,angry,vengeful,etc. So that tells me we all weigh our thoughts and feelings against not only each other , but circumstances to determine what actions we will make and what we perceive as right or wrong.We do this based on how we think and feel.I consider myself a thinker and even in doing so I have realized,to some extent beyond what I ever had before, just how dependent I am ,for my ability to think rationally, on my feelings.I hope this perhaps brings some clarity to how this subject works from my perspective.I am willing to go deeper with how this works to the point of why it is this way and more examples when it does.I prefer to do this by PM only.


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## vel (May 17, 2010)

I believe the confusion stems from the fact that many people come to that F in MBTI stands for all the possible kinds of feelings that one can possibly have. Whether you are feeling bored, or excited, or frustrated, or in love, or angry, or calm, or passionate, or impatient, people clump all these feelings together and attribute it to the F function in MBTI. That's not what it is though and those are not the feelings that it measures. F in MBTI simply measures how much value you give to the human component in your reasoning and decision making. A feeler typically place a lot of value on it while a thinker places much less value. F in MBTI also does not stand for the transitory feel-good/feel-bad type of sensations that are produced by the reward system of the brain. Everybody, thinkers and feelers, has those kind of sensations that motivate us through our daily life, but that's not what the F function measures.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

vel said:


> I believe the confusion stems from the fact that many people come to that F in MBTI stands for all the possible kinds of feelings that one can possibly have. Whether you are feeling bored, or excited, or frustrated, or in love, or angry, or calm, or passionate, or impatient, people clump all these feelings together and attribute it to the F function in MBTI. That's not what it is though and those are not the feelings that it measures. F in MBTI simply measures how much value you give to the human component in your reasoning and decision making. A feeler typically place a lot of value on it while a thinker places much less value. F in MBTI also does not stand for the transitory feel-good/feel-bad type of sensations that are produced by the reward system of the brain. Everybody, thinkers and feelers, has those kind of sensations that motivate us through our daily life, but that's not what the F function measures.


I always thought that "Feeling" was a really bad word to use for it, because of what it obviously implies to most people. It makes a lot of Thinkers assume that Feelers are just incapable of thinking or less rational. xD Thinking vs. Feeling is more of an issue on what you value when you process information, not what you do.


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## jdmn (Feb 5, 2010)

Feeling compliments Thinking on many ways. Feeling makes decisions based on a desire of harmony with all the implied objects and people present. It desires things not only to make sense, but to help for the personal and collective joy and hapiness of a situation. That is why we are generally welcoming and people-focused, we want them to feel included and participant in everything we do and say. We try to see all sides and come to a conclusion, while keeping the element of harmony, passion and balance that wants the feeling function. For this we are usually said to decide and judge with values, because they accomodate this objective of harmony and goodness. However, we can get very hypocritical and self-focused when not well developed. Feeling helps thinkers to see problems on an added human value, that fuels their way of decision making into a better one.


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## Mei (Feb 5, 2011)

hziegel said:


> I always thought that "Feeling" was a really bad word to use for it, because of what it obviously implies to most people. It makes a lot of Thinkers assume that Feelers are just incapable of thinking or less rational. xD Thinking vs. Feeling is more of an issue on what you value when you process information, not what you do.


What? No... 

It just means whenever we also have to think and make a decision, we need to check our own feelings first before we action it out. The feeling is always related to people's emotions. 

e.g. (this actually happened to me)
I need to close say 20 helpdesk tickets. Most overdue. 

10 of them were retaliation and re-opened by users because they were in the dark about managements' decisions on processes. I should bluntly write a logical comment like "not related to system" or "not system issue" and close it all down. But my F side, is ringing a little bit more loudly and I cannot help but to check that my customers' feelings are happy and okay before I go ahead and to close it. 
(This is also because stupidly, I met many of them before, and I connected with a capital F, I see them as friends. I should not do that in the workplace but I did.) I went with my heart in this seemingly logical decision. As I am an INFP, I also utilised my P. Therefore my consciousness said, (P) "previous talk by top IT mgtmt said not to disturb business users. Keep customers happy. Keep employee morale high through changes." I could not bring myself to just write a blunt direct comment and alienate the users, and also go against my boss' words and remit? 

If I did not have a F, I would not feel so much about the consequences of my actions either. I would have just done it. 

If I had say, NTP, I may have approached it more logically. If X does not fit Y. Then close. If my P side took in previous knowledge and understanding from management, then maybe I would, if X does not fit Y, then escalate to manager, or ask manager for clarification, before closing. I am INFP. I put my F first before my N. I felt the situation, then checked my intuition against my feelings, and then I cannot decide, and then my P cross-checked previous information, and then I got stuck. lol... :blushed: 

If I was smart, I would've gone back to the original F, N, P and recheck. Anyway, in the end, I rethought about what I said, and talked to them, and negotiated with them directly. 

"What is it that you wanted?"
"Can this happen?"
"No"
"Oh, ok. Please close ticket."

Some really bossy and difficult people that wants to know everything...I have to find more facts to back up my argument before I close the ticket. (It wastes my time.) This kind of really hard to close ticket would always come from a Thinker. You can bet on it. Also, sometimes depending on what that Thinker knows, you got to use a keyword so that they get it in their mind. 

-Technical individuals - "The database had a lock in table F12345" 
-Finance user - "System error"


"Please tell me what is wrong."
"I have checked this and this and this. Therefore this this and this. Management said this and this and this."
"Oh, then please close." 


"Please tell me what is wrong."
"I have checked this and this and this. Therefore this this and this. "
"It can't be" (What do you mean it can't be? I AM the technical personnel here.)
"What you see is this, and I have checked this. Please verify that you can now."
"Oh, yeah. Can you then please close." 

(She puts phone down thinking I lied to her. Yes, techies are also default liars cos userthink we defer blame and responsibilities to close a ticket. They have assumption that once fixed. It's fixed forever. Oh how wrong are they on system issues... )


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Mei said:


> What? No...
> 
> It just means whenever we also have to think and make a decision, we need to check our own feelings first before we action it out. The feeling is always related to people's emotions.
> 
> ...


I disagree with a lot of the things you've said, and find several of them offensive. I will agree that Feeling leads people to look to their emotions for guidance, but most of the things you said about Thinkers are extremely rude and biased. Please consider what you say and the impact it will have on the people you say it to.


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## Mei (Feb 5, 2011)

hziegel said:


> I always thought that "Feeling" was a really bad word to use for it, because of what it obviously implies to most people.* It makes a lot of Thinkers assume that Feelers are just incapable of thinking or less rational. xD *Thinking vs. Feeling is more of an issue on what you value when you process information, not what you do.


And you are not being rude here? Because you blantantly wrote and said you assumed Feelers are incapable of thinking or to be rational.I also find that rude. Cos obviously, I come from an IT background and logic is my forte. How wrong can you be? 

In fact, for most INFP if they are teachers and are good at semantics, then logic is also their forte. 

I'm sorry if you find my post offensive, but you did laugh out loud here and also made an assumption. Are you generalising on behalf of a lot of Thinkers ? I found that bit rude, even though your beginning post seem to be from a genuine concern and curiosity...


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## Mei (Feb 5, 2011)

hziegel said:


> I disagree with a lot of the things you've said, and find several of them offensive. I will agree that Feeling leads people to look to their emotions for guidance, but most of the things you said about Thinkers are extremely rude and biased. Please consider what you say and the impact it will have on the people you say it to.


By the way, I don't quite understand why the bolded lines of things that You find offensive, since they were of MY feelings, and MY opinions? How do you know for certain that the type of people I came across was not demanding users who needed facts to be proven to them? Cos in my eyes, most difficult users had to get verification and validation of facts before they would approve my closing of the ticket. I was there, and I know what I said and why I said what I said. So how can you really find that offensive? They were based on people I encountered. ? ? ? ?

I will be frank with you. I gave literal examples because you do not seem to understand and comprehend the concept... There was no agreement, but just statements, and expression of experiences. Please also check your logic.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Mei said:


> And you are not being rude here? Because you blantantly wrote and said you assumed Feelers are incapable of thinking or to be rational.I also find that rude. Cos obviously, I come from an IT background and logic is my forte. How wrong can you be?
> 
> In fact, for most INFP if they are teachers and are good at semantics, then logic is also their forte.
> 
> I'm sorry if you find my post offensive, but you did laugh out loud here and also made an assumption. Are you generalising on behalf of a lot of Thinkers ? I found that bit rude, even though your beginning post seem to be from a genuine concern and curiosity...


Umm, no. Please read what I type instead of what you imagined I typed. I was agreeing with somebody else about how many Thinkers misunderstand what Feelers are. I have not generalized whatsoever here, and in case you (probably) haven't read the posts ahead of you, several Feelers have agreed with everything I said.

I really don't want to argue with you, but I'm a bit annoyed that you interpreted something I said as negative without even reading the context I was responding to. If you had, you would know that I have shown nothing but respect toward Feeling types, as I do to all types, because I know that all eight functions are equally useful in society.


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## Skum (Jun 27, 2010)

Mei said:


> And you are not being rude here? Because you blantantly wrote and said you assumed Feelers are incapable of thinking or to be rational.I also find that rude. Cos obviously, I come from an IT background and logic is my forte. How wrong can you be?
> 
> In fact, for most INFP if they are teachers and are good at semantics, then logic is also their forte.
> 
> I'm sorry if you find my post offensive, but you did laugh out loud here and also made an assumption. Are you generalising on behalf of a lot of Thinkers ? I found that bit rude, even though your beginning post seem to be from a genuine concern and curiosity...


Rule number 1 of these forums: Do not jump to conclusions. This is the silliest and most misinterpreted post I have read in a long time. Please bother to read posts and understand the rhetoric being used in them. If you have any further comments I suggest you take it up in private message or on the message wall of the person the topic concerns. We don't need the thread derailed any further. Thanks.

Anyhow, absolutely agree with Vel. The idea that feeling types simply put more _value_ in emotions when considering decisions and that thinking types put more _value_ in logic is a very important distinction to make. It's a long echoed sentiment that "Feeling" and "Thinking" should be given different names to cut down on confusion. I find the names as they are far too loaded.


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## Mei (Feb 5, 2011)

You know what, never mind. I was going to write something else, but let's forget it.


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## BeanDelphiki (Oct 20, 2010)

Feeling has its uses, but I prefer a combination of Fi + Te + Ni as a substitute for Fe. Feeling is necessary, but extroverted feeling isn't necessarily.

I need heavy waves of Fi periodically, but I usually don't have much conscious need for it. Most of the time it's just running in the background.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

BeanDelphiki said:


> Feeling has its uses, but I prefer a combination of Ni + Te + Fi as a substitute for Fe.


That can definitely work. As long as you don't rely on pure T qualities, you should show signs of a healthy persona. The issue becomes when Thinking people ignore their Tertiary and Inferior functions so entirely they think they're robots. xD Or less extremely, when it becomes a problem in their daily lives.

Personally, I use my Fi all the time, and Fe very occasionally. But I try to develop all 8 functions at least to some extent, because each has its own unique uses. It always worries me when I realize that I'm missing some key part of my functionality that puts me behind in some way.


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## Shawn (Apr 10, 2010)

hziegel said:


> While Ti dominants may find the internet a perfectly safe and well structured environment, it can actually encourage us to ignore the importance of our Fe/Fi in the rest of our daily lives.
> 
> ...
> 
> *Thinkers are dependent on Feeling to give them reason for everything*, whether or not they are aware of this. What reason is there to do or think anything if there is no ethical or emotional connection? What value does anything have if all can be dissolved into logic and math?


Two fine points there. The reason there are so many trolls and general jerks on the Internet is because they aren't in a personal group setting where F would kick in and try to create harmony amongst the people. But even then F is driving them - to create DISharmony. And when you're a person like me who spends hours a day on the Internet, F can remain insufficiently developed for real life. You're less likely to find a troll in real life because that person can be physically retaliated to - something which F doesn't like.

F provides reason, I agree. I am a strong T preference but F is what gives me the desire to do the things I do, if just as hobbies.

I do believe my girlfriend is an ESFP, with a fairly prevalent F. I have a pretty prevalent T. Thus I need F in order to relate to her better. I have to actually think for a moment what she may be feeling based upon current situations, her facial expressions, etc.:crazy:


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## nameno1had (Jan 16, 2011)

I hope this doesn't offend anyone's sensibilities,but considering my serious side didn't seem to draw out any response maybe this will get the wheels of some minds turning or some hearts filled with.....uh,what ever that stuff is. I couldn't help but notice that some women I've known would say that men think with their feeler.In turn it would appear those same women feel with their thinker......


On a more serious note my jokes don't always make me laugh either.This one makes me chuckle a bit though.



:laughing:


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

nameno1had said:


> I hope this doesn't offend anyone's sensibilities,but considering my serious side didn't seem to draw out any response maybe this will get the wheels of some minds turning or some hearts filled with.....uh,what ever that stuff is. I couldn't help but notice that some women I've known would say that men think with their feeler.In turn it would appear those same women feel with their thinker......
> 
> 
> On a more serious note my jokes don't always make me laugh either.This one makes me chuckle a bit though.
> ...


There is a serious note to be heard in that, though. If Thinkers use Feeling, clearly Feelers also use Thinking. For some reason, more Feelers are willing to admit that they use their Thinking functions, though. =P


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## nameno1had (Jan 16, 2011)

hziegel said:


> There is a serious note to be heard in that, though. If Thinkers use Feeling, clearly Feelers also use Thinking. For some reason, more Feelers are willing to admit that they use their Thinking functions, though. =P



I do agree with your statement,it is quite humorous to me,though I think we interpret it in a different way, but maybe not:wink:


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## Matis (Nov 25, 2010)

hziegel said:


> There is a serious note to be heard in that, though. If Thinkers use Feeling, clearly Feelers also use Thinking. For some reason, more Feelers are willing to admit that they use their Thinking functions, though. =P




Really offtopic, but everytime I see a post by you, I end up staring at your signature for 5-10 seconds. Or more. It's mesmerizingly cute. As is your avatar.


Also, even though im an F, i find it rather easy to put the F aside and use the fragments of my T to make decision if the situation calls for it.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Matis said:


> Really offtopic, but everytime I see a post by you, I end up staring at your signature for 5-10 seconds. Or more. It's mesmerizingly cute. As is your avatar.
> 
> 
> Also, even though im an F, i find it rather easy to put the F aside and use the fragments of my T to make decision if the situation calls for it.


Aww, thank you. I should take pictures of myself more often, I got so many compliments. x3

To be honest, I use Ti for almost everything, yet I still find myself having to rely on F in a lot of scenarios. There always has to be a line somewhere that you create or perceive for yourself, and it's impossible to determine where that line should be using logic. Logically there is no line; it all comes from your feelings. And yet I need there to be a line, because otherwise I will never be able to understand my emotions and create healthy boundaries for myself.


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## susurration (Oct 22, 2009)

hziegel said:


> There is a serious note to be heard in that, though. If Thinkers use Feeling, clearly Feelers also use Thinking. For some reason, more Feelers are willing to admit that they use their Thinking functions, though. =P


Possibly because feeling types tend to attribute the rational features or experience of feeling as being 'thinking' when it's not thinking at all, and actually is their feeling doing it's job of rational judging. I suppose this may be due to misconceptions about feeling, and it's overall I dunno... perceived subordination to the thinking function. Feeling types probably tend to have more of a positive view on thinking than vice versa. Even for those types with thinking as their tertirary function! 



If a thinking type does not integrate feeling, according to theory, their psyche will be fragmented. Their feeling may continue to play a sort of sabotaging role in their life without them noticing. 

If you've ever met someone or observed a character you've been automatically drawn to, odds are they have something you need to unlock within yourself. If you're a dominant thinker, you might find this in a dominant feeler. 



> "'Feeling is the name for the psychic process essential to this knowledge of ones inner essence and in reaching out to the world of others' Willeford clearly believes that the psychological function of feeling is fundamental to the discovery of integrity and our delight we are able to take in it".
> 
> "Like thinking, feeling is a function Jung places on the rational axis of his compass of personality, the axis our psychological consciousness that is interested in ordering experience through *understanding *. This recognition that feeling is just as rational in it's aim and design as thinking understanding, was a landmark in the history of thought, a break with tradition, because philosophy had always confused feeling with emotion, denying it the status of reason and *mistaking it, in a misapplied compliment* to the feeling function, for the affective influence of the irrational.
> 
> ...


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## topgun31 (Nov 23, 2010)

As an ENTJ, I really do believe feeling is important, even if I won't show it. Without it, you just feel.....numb. And that sucks

I'm no professional salesman, but I've heard and observed that emotions (feelings) are the basic of most, if not all, actions. That's why salesman, promoters, politicians, public relations - pretty much anyone who wants to exert influence - try to appeal to your emotions in order to have their way. Logic may help sway you one direction, but it's ultimately your feelings that direct your actions. It can be a good or bad thing, depending on how you use it. And I'm saying this as a thinker. For instance, I feel strongly about logical coherence haha.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

topgun31 said:


> As an ENTJ, I really do believe feeling is important, even if I won't show it. Without it, you just feel.....numb. And that sucks
> 
> I'm no professional salesman, but I've heard and observed that emotions (feelings) are the basic of most, if not all, actions. That's why salesman, promoters, politicians, public relations - pretty much anyone who wants to exert influence - try to appeal to your emotions in order to have their way. Logic may help sway you one direction, but it's ultimately your feelings that direct your actions. It can be a good or bad thing, depending on how you use it. And I'm saying this as a thinker. For instance, I feel strongly about logical coherence haha.


I love how you put that.  I agree, it's definitely apparent in sales environments where people have to make an important decision.


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## topgun31 (Nov 23, 2010)

hziegel said:


> I love how you put that.  I agree, it's definitely apparent in sales environments where people have to make an important decision.


Thanks! And yes feeling helps to forge empathy - which is important in almost every facet of life. This is why corporations, business, government institutions etc. value EQ alot more than IQ. I was pretty good at writing in college, and, in my writing, it was my use of pathos - more so than logos and ethos - that made my papers so good. 

Another example of the importance of feeling to thinkers comes from one of the most famous INTPs of all time - Albert Einstein. You can tell that he was more than just a dry academic:

"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." 

"Great spirits have often encountered violent opposition from weak minds" 

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

topgun31 said:


> Thanks! And yes feeling helps to forge empathy - which is important in almost every facet of life. This is why corporations, business, government institutions etc. value EQ alot more than IQ. I was pretty good at writing in college, and, in my writing, it was my use of pathos - more so than logos and ethos - that made my papers so good.
> 
> Another example of the importance of feeling to thinkers comes from one of the most famous INTPs of all time - Albert Einstein. You can tell that he was more than just a dry academic:
> 
> ...


 I wish all the NTs were reading this now. It saddens me how much some of them force themselves away from thoughts of empathy because they think it's distracting or useless. They're just hurting themselves.


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## Intuit (Feb 2, 2011)

Hmm, I find this an interesting discussion because sometimes, though I am more feeler, I feel I am on the brink of being a feeler and thinker. For example, when a situation occurs, lets say some sort of problem. I use my Fi to establish how I feel about it, and then I use my logic to try and find a solution. I have noticed I tend to be more rational then some of my feeler friends that sometimes just act on a whim which ends up leaving them embarrassed or regretful. Although I definitely have times when I work completely out of emotion and impulse. Though in the back of my head I logically know I should not be doing what Im doing. I guess thats what makes me a feeler:tongue:...

But basically I find a balance to be important. How can you know what to do in any given situation without establishing what it means to you in the first place? Also feelings definitely help you connect to other people. Last time I checked, nobody gets close through cold logical discussions.


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## devoid (Jan 3, 2011)

Intuit said:


> Hmm, I find this an interesting discussion because sometimes, though I am more feeler, I feel I am on the brink of being a feeler and thinker. For example, when a situation occurs, lets say some sort of problem. I use my Fi to establish how I feel about it, and then I use my logic to try and find a solution. I have noticed I tend to be more rational then some of my feeler friends that sometimes just act on a whim which ends up leaving them embarrassed or regretful. Although I definitely have times when I work completely out of emotion and impulse. Though in the back of my head I logically know I should not be doing what Im doing. I guess thats what makes me a feeler:tongue:...
> 
> But basically I find a balance to be important. How can you know what to do in any given situation without establishing what it means to you in the first place? Also feelings definitely help you connect to other people. Last time I checked, nobody gets close through cold logical discussions.


Many people seem to come closer to that line with age, especially if they do a lot of self development. Part of personality development is realizing that we were born with all 8 functions, and that we must find some form of balance between sensing and intuiting, thinking and feeling. If your functions are particularly extreme, you'll probably notice some serious impairment in specific areas of your daily life that most people eventually try to fix.


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## topgun31 (Nov 23, 2010)

hziegel said:


> I wish all the NTs were reading this now. It saddens me how much some of them force themselves away from thoughts of empathy because they think it's distracting or useless. They're just hurting themselves.


I used to be like that....an irrational fear of feeling, because I thought that it would make me weak. It just makes you numb. 



hziegel said:


> Many people seem to come closer to that line with age, especially if they do a lot of self development. Part of personality development is realizing that we were born with all 8 functions, and that we must find some form of balance between sensing and intuiting, thinking and feeling. If your functions are particularly extreme, you'll probably notice some serious impairment in specific areas of your daily life that most people eventually try to fix.


....and as i experienced life, I learned the importance of my inferior functions....I,S,F, and P. A degree of introspection is absolutely critical in order to learn more about yourself and to keep your motivations in check. I've experienced that sensing aids in learning...and can actually make certain things intuitive. I.E. You can learn all you want about the rain forest in class, but you really won't understand it fully until you experience it with your senses. Perception is important in order to stay away from a narrow-minded thought pattern, to think "out-of-the-box." And feeling is important for a number of reasons. Feeling, as discussed above, is an necessary prerequisite for empathy. Also, feelings can act as your "fire in the gut" to fuel your motivations and make you into a stronger, more determined, perseverant, and courageous person. As long as you let your feelings work for you - and not the other way around - than you will be fine.


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## nameno1had (Jan 16, 2011)

topgun31 said:


> I used to be like that....an irrational fear of feeling, because I thought that it would make me weak. It just makes you numb.
> 
> 
> 
> ....and as i experienced life, I learned the importance of my inferior functions....I,S,F, and P. A degree of introspection is absolutely critical in order to learn more about yourself and to keep your motivations in check. I've experienced that sensing aids in learning...and can actually make certain things intuitive. I.E. You can learn all you want about the rain forest in class, but you really won't understand it fully until you experience it with your senses. Perception is important in order to stay away from a narrow-minded thought pattern, to think "out-of-the-box." And feeling is important for a number of reasons. Feeling, as discussed above, is an necessary prerequisite for empathy. Also, feelings can act as your "fire in the gut" to fuel your motivations and make you into a stronger, more determined, perseverant, and courageous person. As long as you let your feelings work for you - and not the other way around - than you will be fine.


Though my test results say I am an INTJ, I go back and forth a decent bit with I and S and with J and P.Those things I find are completely associated with feeling for me, it is only my thoughts that step in to keep order for me.I actually wanted to take a test that was more specific, though I tend to think I would still be labeled the same.I think some thinkers shy away from feelings due to the perception of them as a burden.I on the other hand can't stand to be numb.That hurts worse for me than a bunch of stress,heartbreak and anger.I tend to think I try to stay balanced between thinking and feeling somewhat by being introverted.It seems like the more I am in contact with the world in some ways my thoughts are shunned and my emotional saddle is burdened whether I want it or not.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

nameno1had said:


> Though my test results say I am an INTJ, I go back and forth a decent bit with I and S and with J and P.Those things I find are completely associated with feeling for me, it is only my thoughts that step in to keep order for me.I actually wanted to take a test that was more specific, though I tend to think I would still be labeled the same.I think some thinkers shy away from feelings due to the perception of them as a burden.I on the other hand can't stand to be numb.That hurts worse for me than a bunch of stress,heartbreak and anger.I tend to think I try to stay balanced between thinking and feeling somewhat by being introverted.It seems like the more I am in contact with the world in some ways my thoughts are shunned and my emotional saddle is burdened whether I want it or not.


Same with me. I think being emotionless would be worse than the suffering we experience when we are in tune with our emotions, as painful as they can be. They keep you involved...engaged...in tune with what matters. I am grateful for my ability to detach and be less affected than a lot of my feeler friends, but at times I think that comes at too high a cost.


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## ertertwert (Jun 5, 2010)

The older I become, the more weight Ti (my tertiary function) holds for not only my motivation, but also my decision making. In the past I'd often attempt something without thinking it through simply because it seemed fun or novel. This also implies the opposite: Fe has become less important for me. Or rather, I should say that the way I use Fe has evolved. In the past I would act and say things that I felt, now I try to remain logically consistent regardless of how I feel. Fe helps me understand others and their motivation, but I stick to Ti for my own.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

ertertwert said:


> The older I become, the more weight Ti (my tertiary function) holds for not only my motivation, but also my decision making. In the past I'd often attempt something without thinking it through simply because it seemed fun or novel.


That was me as a teenager. I think this has more to do with maturity than growing into your Ti (though you are probably doing that as well).


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## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

hziegel said:


> Okay, this may be a strange title coming from an INTP. No real use for Fe, right? In fact, that is the reason that I find this so fascinating; because Fe is so unnatural to me, I struggle to do certain things in the world that come very naturally to others. But often I don't even understand what it really means to use Feeling in everyday life, or how or why. I recently had a sort of epiphany; While Ti dominants may find the internet a perfectly safe and well structured environment, it can actually encourage us to ignore the importance of our Fe/Fi in the rest of our daily lives.
> 
> What is Feeling to me? I can only view it through the eyes of my other functions really. It is another, more simply devised form of thinking to me. Instead of having to break down everything, rationalize it and come to a conclusion, you simply Feel what is right and what is not. Thus Feeling to me is the combination of subconscious thinking and conscious ethics. Many NT types might wonder, "What use is this if you are capable of understanding everything at its actual face value?" That's just the issue though: to a Thinker, there is no such thing as face value unless you use Feeling to give it such. *Thinkers are dependent on Feeling to give them reason for everything*, whether or not they are aware of this. What reason is there to do or think anything if there is no ethical or emotional connection? What value does anything have if all can be dissolved into logic and math?
> 
> ...


Can I just say thank you? I know that Ti is my dominant, no question, but my F has always seemed to be decently developed (for an INTP). It could be because I'm Christian and I have a set of base morals that I will think of first when making a decision, regardless of whether it was a more logical choice, and I'll pull the thing through later with a later decision based off of logic, but which doesn't violate my values. This has always seemed to work out for me, even if I hate myself later for not being logical.

LATER CORRECTION: Err, Feeling has nothing to do with this. Because neither Fi or Fe fits me. At all. I just happen to be human, and happen to be a human who happens to be fairly concerned with doing the "right thing," even when the "right thing" to do is a debatable question. Well'n.

I was homeschooled until sixth grade, at which point I was thrust into the school system cold. While I was homeschooled, my Rational mother taught me, and she was an excellent teacher. I got into linear algebra when I was ten, and at that point I could punctuate, spell, and capitalize better than most teenagers. (Which, by the way, isn't hard to beat around here.) My problem-solving skills weren't bad, either.

Then I went to middle school.

On the one hand, I was socially awkward, didn't know what the slang words meant or implied, and was culturally inept. On the other hand, I didn't really blast people back, and I was considered a genius. I wasn't outgoing, but I'd accept friends, and if someone didn't understand something, I'd explain it. Often, I'd explain it slightly better than the teacher did, depending on who taught the class. 

I also came up with some really funny narratives about middle school, many involving an English teacher who will remain unnamed, who would scream at you if you picked up a pen while she was talking, then would continue to do so until you put it down and then for a few minutes afterward. Then she'd start on her lecture again, but then someone else would do something that would cause her to get up on her soapbox again. She wouldn't let us work while she was yelling, even if she wasn't yelling at the person who was working. Then, later, she'd complain that we didn't get the assignments done and would take up more time yelling like that. It was extremely annoying, but made good stories.

I didn't care about being socially inept. I can vaguely remember being insulted repeatedly by the people at my table in Home Ec., but can't remember any specific insults. They just weren't that important to me. I hated the class and the teacher, but that was because that class was right after English, and the English teacher always kept us late... so I was always late, and the Home Ec. teacher blamed me. She was also really perky all the time, like she'd had Jello with her double espresso and a flat of 5-hour Energy thingies, which was annoying, and even though she didn't give us homework, we had to do group work (which never got done).

I enjoyed being viewed as a genius (who wouldn't?!) but I liked teaching people more than being repeatedly told I'm smart, which was an ego booster (an unnecessary one, at that), but which got boring after a while. But someone coming up to me and going, "Uh, what the heck does this mean?" and having me explain it to them, all the while watching their expression go from frustration or confusion to relief or understanding... that doesn't get old. They listened. It didn't matter that I thought the subject matter was simple and boring, it just mattered that they didn't. I guess I'm doomed to be a teacher.

Anyway, when you're homeschooled by a Rational, you're bound to a) be an introvert (or an extrovert who can handle being alone well), and b) respect knowledge. A lot. In fact, you might even LIKE the stuff. Gasp. 

I think that some of the stuff that determines our type is made up of genetics, but a lot seems to come from our environment. Any takers on this subject?


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## myexplodingcat (Feb 6, 2011)

ertertwert said:


> The older I become, the more weight Ti (my tertiary function) holds for not only my motivation, but also my decision making. In the past I'd often attempt something without thinking it through simply because it seemed fun or novel. This also implies the opposite: Fe has become less important for me. Or rather, I should say that the way I use Fe has evolved. In the past I would act and say things that I felt, now I try to remain logically consistent regardless of how I feel. Fe helps me understand others and their motivation, but I stick to Ti for my own.


Haha! We've successfully managed to convert you!  We'll take over the INFJ forum in no time!

XD


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## nameno1had (Jan 16, 2011)

This is my impersonation of Geechy Guy posting to this thread.


.....uh, well I don't know everything,so......its important that I feel it when I .....uh,am in pain, cause otherwise I'd never know


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## abster (Feb 9, 2011)

vel said:


> F in MBTI simply measures how much value you give to the human component in your reasoning and decision making. A feeler typically place a lot of value on it while a thinker places much less value. F in MBTI also does not stand for the transitory feel-good/feel-bad type of sensations that are produced by the reward system of the brain. Everybody, thinkers and feelers, has those kind of sensations that motivate us through our daily life, but that's not what the F function measures.


As a feeler, i agree to this. Both thinking types and feeling types are capable of making decisions from the heart or the head. I have seen thinking types act very passionately about their interests or be emotional about certain things in their life. I have also seen feeler types think on their feet and be very rational about decision making. As a feeling type, i always think about how my decision making will affect others, and i always think in terms of how it will affect, benefit others or for the greater good or for the long term. Anyway, interesting post, like hear what other thinkers as well as feelers have to say.


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## alionsroar (Jun 5, 2010)

I find emotion invaluable. Because it forces me to use my Se/Fe to deal with it which is my secret anti-procrastination tool, because Ti sure doesn't like doing much work (other than checking to see if it has its facts all correct, which is an endless job).

However, it's easy for me to ignore emotion (I do this all too readily). Because I do not know what it is, or it's meaning - what it is all about, which is an annoyance.


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