# Elon Musk's Enneatype



## steindieace (Sep 5, 2017)

Elon Musk is either a 1w9 or a 5w6. 

Regarding the instinctual type, sx/sp. 

Anybody else have any other idea?


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

Very clear 1w9 sx/so (he behaves sp blind in many ways -- hates eating/sleeping, will work himself into the ground doing 100 hour work weeks, put ALL his million$ into two likely to fail start-ups etc). His career is the equivalent of a moral cause to him. It drives him. He views things through a sx e1 lens, recently complaining that Tesla stock short sellers were not just wrong to do so but "hurtful". There are many other tell tale signs he's e1 like the short outbursts of anger and the body tension he visibly carries. 

A e5 sx/sp is a very different animal, as I well know since I am one.


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## Westward (Jul 31, 2017)

A type 1 or 3. When I first heard of him, I considered 5, but that was because of stereotypical mental images I have of him and his work.


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## brightflashes (Oct 27, 2015)

Westward said:


> A type 1 or 3. When I first heard of him, I considered 5, but that was because of stereotypical mental images I have of him and his work.


I'm interested in why you say 3 for him. 

I don't see any type fitting him better than 1w9. I don't think he's so blind, though. I'd guess sx/so or so/sx.


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## Westward (Jul 31, 2017)

brightflashes said:


> I'm interested in why you say 3 for him.
> 
> I don't see any type fitting him better than 1w9. I don't think he's so blind, though. I'd guess sx/so or so/sx.


Some of the things I've read of him struck me as low health 3 stuff and came across as status hungry. Like his preference for blondes and for them to be trophy wives (essentially).


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

Westward said:


> Some of the things I've read of him struck me as low health 3 stuff and came across as status hungry. Like his preference for blondes and for them to be trophy wives (essentially).


I can see that (smaller) 3 SX influence being explained by his tritype (135?).


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## knifey (Jun 25, 2017)

Dare said:


> I can see that (smaller) 3 SX influence being explained by his tritype (135?).


But you're completely ignoring his MBTI. He's clearly an INTP. He really has no awareness of his minute to minute, day to day life. He's set himself up with people around him to keep him on track, because he's just terrible at it. He's said he never knows where his keys are, puts things down and instantly loses them, his long term plans are usually 5 years away (a J has no trouble with 10+ year plans).

An INTP doesn't get trophy wives, they just attract them and marry them because they're there. He does not seek status. I don't know why you don't think he is 8, he clearly excels at being self-made, self reliant. He has said he could never work for somebody else. The way he starts his own, buys out a business, when he needs a part etc. He wants everything done in house, he is driven on a base level to be self sufficient and it extends to his business.


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

knifey said:


> But you're completely ignoring his MBTI. He's clearly an INTP.


He's an INTJ actually. His first wife described herself as an ENFP and Musk as an INTJ. Everything about him is very J -- he wants structure, he wants things decided/'closed'/done. He's most commonly typed as an INTJ.



> He really has no awareness of his minute to minute, day to day life. He's set himself up with people around him to keep him on track, because he's just terrible at it. He's said he never knows where his keys are, puts things down and instantly loses them, his long term plans are usually 5 years away (a J has no trouble with 10+ year plans).


CEOs frequently surround themselves with support staff. We are talking about a man who is CEO of two companies and involved in at least a couple more (when I last checked). INTJs (with inferior Se) often lose what they put down instantly. Given how fast he is achieving things, a 5 year plan makes sense. If you ask the INTJs you'll find that 10+ year plans are not the norm (that question has come up).



> I don't know why you don't think he is 8, he clearly excels at being self-made, self reliant.


Bc he's a 1w9 (many reasons) and 8s aren't the only type to excel at being self-made, self reliant. I know 5s are capable of this.



> He has said he could never work for somebody else. The way he starts his own, buys out a business, when he needs a part etc. He wants everything done in house, he is driven on a base level to be self sufficient and it extends to his business.


I'm an INTJ who feels I could never work for someone else. INTJs are said to be the most independent of all types. Self sufficiency comes naturally. And if you have a long-range vision, like making Mars habitable to humans -- there isn't exactly a job for that -- he had to make the company.


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## knifey (Jun 25, 2017)

Dare said:


> He's an INTJ actually. His first wife described herself as an ENFP and Musk as an INTJ. Everything about him is very J -- he wants structure, he wants things decided/'closed'/done. He's most commonly typed as an INTJ.


He wants structure because he has no structure himself. He is INTP and everybody is wrong. He is INTP who has learned how to overcome to pitfalls of INTP. I know INTP's and I know INTJ's and I have read everything, and seen everything musk has done... he abuses drugs like an INTP. I just know the differences to my core lmao... I dunno, I don't expect to convince anybody really so ignore me.



> Bc he's a 1w9 (many reasons) and 8s aren't the only type to excel at being self-made, self reliant. I know 5s are capable of this.


 I didn't think he was definitely an 8, there are just things about him that are every 8 and nobody seemed to even suggest it was possible he had 8 in him and I found that weird. Everything he does seems geared to challenge the status quo which is kind of 8's modus operandi.



> I'm an INTJ who feels I could never work for someone else. INTJs are said to be the most independent of all types. Self sufficiency comes naturally. And if you have a long-range vision


But INTJ's don't roll with the punches like Elon does. Nor have I ever found any INTJ that would be as "unprofessional" as Elon. The excited stammer is more INTP, the self medicating is more INTP, the not knowing your minute to minute itinerary and looking to your PA constantly is INTP, the half asleep look is INTP. INTJ's always look very awake... and like they're waiting on you and you're inconveniencing them for it. I can't see an INTJ being surprised with a Q&A session and going, okay whatever, ask away. He would have to be a weird INTJ to be so flexible. I know all INTJ's think elon is INTJ but I do not. I think they are similar, which is why somebody even married to him would be confused. 



> like making Mars habitable to humans -- there isn't exactly a job for that -- he had to make the company.


 So INTP's never have crazy grand visions of the future? INTP's are famous for philosophy and theology. What is more "big picture" than that? When I was 7 I used to spend all my time sketching different inventions. So 25 years ago when I was 7 I basically came up with the idea of automatic indicators, but how would it know where you needed to turn? Well give it a map and preprogram your route and then it would know with cameras. If you gave me a million dollars I would have started a car company with the eventual goal of making self navigating cars, it's really not hard to have a 5 years plan for a INTP it comes very naturally. Every INTP that got a degree to get a job has embarked on a 5 years plan. And every INTP has had a crazy big vision they wish they could embark on if they had a few million bucks. Elon didn't have any grand plan until the money btw, he was just working on very short term small projects and the project size grew with the amount of capital he had. It doesn't have anything to do with being intj

anyway I'm ranting and have no idea how much i've written. I know people won't agree there are so many signs he is not J, I think elon is probably 9, but I'm not so convinced he is that much like me when it comes to enneagram. I'll keep reading your thoughts in this thread though. Interesting.


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

knifey said:


> I didn't think he was definitely an 8, there are just things about him that are every 8 and nobody seemed to even suggest it was possible he had 8 in him and I found that weird. Everything he does seems geared to challenge the status quo which is kind of 8's modus operandi.


1. Enneagram One is called *'The Reformer'* (Riso/Enneagram Institute). One's are idealists (who view reality as flawed) and are people of action (correlated with Te aux/Fi tertiary -- it's very rare to find an e1 INTP). With their deep seated conviction that something ought to be done, and being angered by the reality they stand against, they set out to change reality. They believe they are making things not just more ideal but 'right', so whatever they have set their sight on becomes the equivalent of a moral cause/"duty" which drives them even harder (Musk speaks in these e1 terms: "it's the *right* thing to..." "I believe we have a *duty* to expand to other planets to preserve life...")

In terms of changing the status quo, that's not all with him though:
2. sx/so "...They may identify so strongly with whatever they’re involved with that they often become the symbol of its core essence, and sometimes *its lead agent for change. Hardly content with the status quo, this subvariant seeks to alter the fundamental structure of something* while at once embodying it’s purest or most extreme form." ( https://oceanmoonshine9.wordpress.com/type-stackings/ ) [There are many signs he's SP blind and SX dominant -- he just told Rolling Stone he can't be happy without a girlfriend and clearly the man likes intensity]

3. INTJs are natural 'systems builders'/agents of change (have a vision/plan to optimize and then shift to a more Te orientation to make it happen). There is a lot of obvious Te in his speech and behavior. Some see him as an ENTJ but that's not possible since he has described himself as an introvert.

Musk is a super agent of change bc he has all of the above driving/working for him.



> But INTJ's don't roll with the punches like Elon does. Nor have I ever found any INTJ that would be as "unprofessional" as Elon. The excited stammer is more INTP, the self medicating is more INTP, the not knowing your minute to minute itinerary and looking to your PA constantly is INTP, the half asleep look is INTP. INTJ's always look very awake... and like they're waiting on you and you're inconveniencing them for it. I can't see an INTJ being surprised with a Q&A session and going, okay whatever, ask away. He would have to be a weird INTJ to be so flexible. I know all INTJ's think elon is INTJ but I do not. I think they are similar, which is why somebody even married to him would be confused.


It can be problematic when you bring it down to the 'he looks half asleep' level. He might have been tired that day! (He's well known for prioritizing work above sleep -- he does look tired in some interviews, but not all). He might roll with the punches bc that was exactly what he learned (the hard knock way) as a kid. He might be flexible/open with media bc he feels it's his 'duty' to bring as much attention to his 'causes' as possible. He may be more 'chill' bc of the 9 wing influence and bc he's INTJ-A (calm/relaxed/confident, not 'neurotic'). I personally see his "unprofessionalism" (if we are referring to the same thing -- many Musk CEO vs Wall Street examples come to mind) as part of an INTJ's blunt honesty (value authenticity) and 'arrogance' when we know we're right and can't stand rules/customs that are nonsensical/inefficient/'artificial'/restricting to us.

It's helpful to remember we are talking about someone whose IQ has been estimated by someone close to him (SpaceX cofounder) to be between 160 and 165. It's a tough comparison between Musk and 'average' INTJs for that reason alone. And your average INTJ is most likely a enneagram 5 SP -- which is very different again (more closed off/less action oriented than a 1 SX). It's better to look to the bigger/more fundamental personality indicators with someone like Musk.



> Elon didn't have any grand plan until the money btw, he was just working on very short term small projects and the project size grew with the amount of capital he had.


This is not true. He had a plan as a teen how to get out of South Africa to Silicon Valley which he enacted as soon as he was old enough (left for Canada alone at 17). It bothered him even when young that NASAs budget was declining and space exploration was no longer a priority. 

On his first date in college, the first question he asked the girl was "how do you feel about electric cars?" (Lol). He got a degree in physics & another in economics (presumably to set himself up for the future he saw for himself). He enrolled in post grad research of high-energy-density capacitors at Stanford (finally getting to Silicon Valley) but he dropped out to pursue financial opportunities he saw (creating two highly successful internet companies). Note that before the money came he was interested in space & energy technology. 

Now with $ or, in his case, better described as funding capital, he went straight back to his previous interests of how to have the world change to using electric cars (he cares less that they're his) and how to have NASA's budget increased/put life on Mars. And he used all of his money to these ends. 

He looks like just an inventor and an entrepreneur but he's something much larger. It was always about the big picture/revolutionizing the world with him. He had asked himself when young (before the $) what the biggest ideas are -- ones that would fit on the scale if only ten things could be said about human history. He decided that multi planetary life is one of them. He is very Ni in his singular, biggest picture, far into the future way of thinking. And then he uses Te to make it happen. It's not a coincidence the way the pieces fall together for him (like Tesla car company --> Tesla energy company). It's all planned. He is very top down in his vision even if his actions are bottom up. He's said: "I plan the future so I don't get bored".

When I learned about MBTI, I decided to learn about five super successful INTJs so I could mentally consult them whenever I faced problems in my career. Elon is one of my five. I know a lot about him. Everything points to INTJ.


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## knifey (Jun 25, 2017)

everything you're saying makes him an INTJ is not a specific difference between INTJ's and INTP's. Everything points to INTJ to you because you know nothing about INTP (guessing by what you've said so far).


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

knifey said:


> Everything points to INTJ to you because you know nothing about INTP (guessing by what you've said so far).


I'm familiar with INTPs. I just had Christmas dinner with one I adore (my best friend's father). I go to school with a disproportionate number of highly intelligent ones. I admire Einstein, Marie Curie and James Simons (all INTPs) very much. I find the difference between P types and J types obvious (my closest friends are Ps and the difference is easy to recognize).

I'm happy to agree to disagree with you on Musk.


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## steindieace (Sep 5, 2017)

Dare said:


> 1. Enneagram One is called *'The Reformer'* (Riso/Enneagram Institute). One's are idealists (who view reality as flawed) and are people of action (correlated with Te aux/Fi tertiary -- it's very rare to find an e1 INTP). With their deep seated conviction that something ought to be done, and being angered by the reality they stand against, they set out to change reality. They believe they are making things not just more ideal but 'right', so whatever they have set their sight on becomes the equivalent of a moral cause/"duty" which drives them even harder (Musk speaks in these e1 terms: "it's the *right* thing to..." "I believe we have a *duty* to expand to other planets to preserve life...")


You know what, INTPs do have Enneagram 1 at least in their tritype. Tritypes 548 and 541 are often common among INTPs and INTJs (_one of my friend, an INTP, is a 541 tritype_).


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

I see 3w4.

Where's the indignation of the type 1?


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## knifey (Jun 25, 2017)

steindieace said:


> You know what, INTPs do have Enneagram 1 at least in their tritype. Tritypes 548 and 541 are often common among INTPs and INTJs (_one of my friend, an INTP, is a 541 tritype_).


I scored quite high across 981, when the site gave me suggestions as to what I probably am after the test, all the highest options were combinations of 9 8 1. I actually think a lot of unhealthy 9w1's or 1wX's actually test as 456 particularly with INTP's because stress fux em up, turns them paranoid and keeps them in their head. Which is why there so many INTP's with 456.


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

steindieace said:


> You know what, INTPs do have Enneagram 1 at least in their tritype. Tritypes 548 and 541 are often common among INTPs and INTJs (_one of my friend, an INTP, is a 541 tritype_).


Sure, but there is a big difference between being a core e1 and being a 541 (a 5 with a 1 influence).

There was a study done of 22K people to see the correlation between MBTI & enneagram. Only 1% of INTPs were core e1s. Any MBTI can be any enneagram type in theory but, in reality, some combinations are extremely unlikely. INTP e1 is one of them. E1 is a very J type by it's nature.

File:Normalized TypologyCentral Enneagram Percentages.jpg - Typology Wiki

Other studies done have provided similar results.



Daeva said:


> I see 3w4.
> 
> Where's the indignation of the type 1?


There are tons of examples. He's known for his short outbursts of anger. In Ashlee Vance's biography of Musk a point was made about this aspect of him (the angry, sometimes 'mean' flashes) and how bizarre, confusing & off-putting it is to those who witness it.

He tells suppliers all kinds of colorful things (when they aren't keeping up).

He does angry tweets. Him & Bezos going at it is funny.

His employees know to "look out" if they 1) don't perform, 2) come to meetings unprepared or 3) explain to him why something isn't possible (when Elon, who personally keeps up with the science/tech etc, frequently knows better than they do). I don't mean normal boss scolding here -- he's known to really go there, unleashing his anger, being bitingly sarcastic and even humiliating employees.

Recently he openly expressed indignation towards Tesla stock short sellers. He doesn't seem to care that Wall Street constantly mocks him (I think a e3 would care and wouldn't open themselves up to this).

Elon personally canceled the order of a customer (and banned him from Tesla for life) when that person openly criticized a Tesla event as unprofessional. He publicly called a journalist "a huge douchebag" for criticizing Tesla. There are many more examples.

Keep in mind that 1w9s are "discerning, wise, civilized" and that "the anger seen in Ones is harder to detect in this subtype than in the other, tending to express itself in stiffness, impatience and sarcasm" (Riso, The Wisdom of the Enneagram) -- so you don't expect to see constant indignation in highly self-controlled 1w9 Musk. Enneagram experts talk about a stiffness in e1s, a visible sign of them holding back their anger, particularly in their neck -- this is visible in Musk. 

Anger is his 'vice' not the shame/vanity/deceit of e3s. His focus is on the greater good, not himself like it is for a e3 (biographer Ashlee Vance said Musk is "consumed by the thought of the human species being wiped out"). Although, that said, I think a 3w4 SX influence in his tritype is likely (he dresses unusually well, wants his wife to play a traditional role to at least some extent etc).

Sometimes people have problems identifying e1 SX types bc they aren't aware that the SX variant is the "countertype" for e1 and so will appear quite different than your average e1 (who is likely a SX blind ISTJ).


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## RMck (Jan 28, 2021)

brightflashes said:


> I'm interested in why you say 3 for him.
> 
> I don't see any type fitting him better than 1w9. I don't think he's so blind, though. I'd guess sx/so or so/sx.


Easily he's a type 3.
He has an intense drive thats innate - no one can deny that which make him more likely to be an aggressive type, by 3's are the most driven of the enneagram in a direct way
A focus on efficiency, purpose, and worthiness of a cause are strong hallmarks of a 3, efficiency or on the bad side shortcuts which sometimes tesla has as a problem
Works to much and too hard, all his life is wrapped up in his work, likely his identity is wrapped up in it. 
When failure is potential, or forced by circumstances 3's get angry and can for a moment look more like an 8 - 3's fear failure at an extreme level, he talks about fearing more than he'd like but if the cause is important enough he plows through. 
I think he's a self preservation 3 since unlike the social 3's he actually cares that he is what he projects himself out to be. Also SP 3's tend to be mistyped as 5's - the read a lot more and gain significantly more knowledge than the rest of the 3's, and care about being good and doing right, so having the safest cars on the road, best in manufacturing, changing the world. 
3's at their best are both the expert and the coach/cheerleader, and he has empowered a lot of people in his company, some amazing inventions he didn't even help with the engineering, just put the team together. 
5's when they fear they go to more information and feel better, SP 3's will study things like rocket design manuals to get enough information to succeed, knowing that success is linked to knowledge.
1's are extremely bothered by imperfections, and like processes and order, Elon hates regulation, takes shortcuts around them, left California to a less regulated place, started construction on berlin without permits, reinvents the wheel, hates meetings or things that waste his time. 1's like control, rules, processes, Elon is trying to make the most efficient manufacturing process, not to have the best process but in service to the dream of decarbonizing our economy. 
9's, Elon is most driven man in the world lol, he lives in his factories lol, no way he's a 9 but like all 3's when he's stressed he goes to the low side of 9.


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

RMck said:


> Easily he's a type 3.
> He has an intense drive thats innate - no one can deny that which make him more likely to be an aggressive type, by 3's are the most driven of the enneagram in a direct way
> A focus on efficiency, purpose, and worthiness of a cause are strong hallmarks of a 3, efficiency or on the bad side shortcuts which sometimes tesla has as a problem
> Works to much and too hard, all his life is wrapped up in his work, likely his identity is wrapped up in it.
> ...


Fwiw, I can see an e3 influence in his tritype, but Musk is so flagrant & polarizing (especially compared to other CEOs who are very often 3s), it’s hard to see him as an image-conscious 3 first. I see restraint that occasionally boils over with Musk. In case you’re unaware, e1 has a tendency to be a workaholic. It’s easy to think of them as relentlessly driving themselves, and others, to their own standard. That said, I’d be happy to agree to disagree on how much 3 is up front.

However, I think it’s quite obvious he is not a SP dominant (that’s going to be a tough argument, surely). I also respectfully suggest you update your view on e1 beyond the superficial ideas people attribute to ALL e1s, including the highly unusual e1 SX.



> 1's are extremely bothered by imperfections,


When asked about what he thinks when he sees a Tesla on the road his response was something to the effect of “all I see are the imperfections”. I suspect Musk spends a good part of his day focusing on everything ‘wrong’ that could be improved/perfected.



> Elon hates regulation,


E1 sets their own standard. This is a fact often glossed over. It’s the e6 that is more likely to adopt societies regulations as given. E1 may or may not, but they will decide for themselves. 



> 1's like control, rules, processes,


Elon has his own, which he very much likes. If you think about it, Musk goes after leverage in every way possible. Having ‘processes’ is part of how you automate systems (one form of creating leverage).



> Elon is trying to make the most efficient manufacturing process, not to have the best process


On Battery Day he proudly announced Tesla will be the best at the manufacturing process (generally). Period.



> but in service to the dream of decarbonizing our economy.


Yes, that is the (moral) STANDARD he has set for all of us. You might even say he is married to his ideal — hence virtually his entire existence is spent pursuing It with a ‘special intensity of desire’ (a characteristic of e1 SX). This is a highly unique characteristic (distinct to ‘aggression’).


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## RMck (Jan 28, 2021)

Dare said:


> Fwiw, I can see an e3 influence in his tritype, but Musk is so flagrant & polarizing (especially compared to other CEOs who are very often 3s), it’s hard to see him as an image-conscious 3 first. I see restraint that occasionally boils over with Musk. In case you’re unaware, e1 has a tendency to be a workaholic. It’s easy to think of them as relentlessly driving themselves, and others, to their own standard. That said, I’d be happy to agree to disagree on how much 3 is up front.
> 
> However, I think it’s quite obvious he is not a SP dominant (that’s going to be a tough argument, surely). I also respectfully suggest you update your view on e1 beyond the superficial ideas people attribute to ALL e1s, including the highly unusual e1 SX.
> 
> ...


You make good points, but I'm still not sold on him not being a SP at the start. I'm an SP 3 and started my own company, was very risk tolerant, setup my own standards, and was vision driven, albeit on an ant like scale compared to Elon. I cared a lot about efficiency, hated regulation, was polite and kind but very driven, perfected the system, but like tesla took shortcuts and had to go back to make better. I love being on stage and presenting when I think I'm enough of an expert, and I'm a natural coach when I feel like I have enough knowledge. Either way, SP3's can enjoy the stage as much as a Social 3, the difference is SP 3's care almost as much about being what they present and 1's care about being good or virtuous. Elon doesn't talk about being good or virtuous, but wanting to work towards a future he can look forward to and get excited about. He's more future oriented which is a 3/7/8 orientation. 1's are very present focused, looking more to whats infront of them instead of what will come and what they are working towards. He's definitely not past focused which takes out the 5 as an option. SP 3's can look like 1's because they care about being what they present (not as surface focused as the social), and like 5's as they do tend towards a lot more research. Elon reads biographies and strategy books and technical books specifically related to what he's trying to accomplish, which is similar to what I do, again, my net worth practically doesn't exits compared to him when he was 30 lol. 5's are happy to just have the info. Elon fears failure more than he likes (almost direct quote), but if its worthy enough of a cause he plows through it (aggressively suppressing his feelings). He also has a mushy side where he cries when he heard about Australians not being able to afford power (heart focus, not anger), his solution was "we will do better", which when faced with problems 3's think the only solution is to try harder. Just saying, I see your points, but I think he's a 3 that can go to the disconnectedness of the 9 when over stresses (needing others around him to keep him on track^someones previous comment on this thread), and growing in security to the healthy side of the 6 and making sure everything is right and taken care of. 

Either way... all the experts say you shouldn't type other people since we can't see their hearts lol, which I think for the most part we all disregard because its so interesting. I've worked with 1's and its a very different flavour, I think theres a lot of focus on the here and now (1's also repress the future, so not as likely to be visionaries) and competency/reputation, and i really see the anger towards imperfections. I'm a designer myself and I do see all my imperfections (perfectionism of a SP3), but it doesn't make me angry, it makes me feel ashamed and I need to try harder, and I'll try to get others to focus less on it now and come back with it being fixed or better later.


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## RMck (Jan 28, 2021)

Sorry 1's are black and white thinkers so they are polarizing in a sense, but its not good to be polarizing so they are less likely to do that. They do become lawyers a lot so maybe they are polarizing in one sense out in the world, so I'll take back that comment lol


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## incision (May 23, 2010)

Enneatype 5, NTP. I keep wavering between I and E. He's either a directive I or a relatively controlled E.

Some quotes:









Elon Musk Quotes - BrainyQuote


Enjoy the best Elon Musk Quotes at BrainyQuote. Quotations by Elon Musk, South African Businessman, Born June 28, 1971. Share with your friends.




www.brainyquote.com





I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact.

If something's important enough, you should try. Even if - the probable outcome is failure.

I think it's very important to have a feedback loop, where you're constantly thinking about what you've done and how you could be doing it better. I think that's the single best piece of advice: constantly think about how you could be doing things better and questioning yourself.

If you're trying to create a company, it's like baking a cake. You have to have all the ingredients in the right proportion.

Any product that needs a manual to work is broken.

With artificial intelligence, we are summoning the demon. You know all those stories where there's the guy with the pentagram and the holy water, and he's like, yeah, he's sure he can control the demon? Doesn't work out.

There's a silly notion that failure's not an option at NASA. Failure is an option here. If things are not failing, you are not innovating enough.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Westward said:


> Some of the things I've read of him struck me as low health 3 stuff and came across as status hungry. Like his preference for blondes and for them to be trophy wives (essentially).


I got the impression he encouraged males to marry smart females.
He is extremely effective and concerned about time management, also when it comes to time with his partners.
His background with a cynical and condesending father and unusual high goals could explain a lot.
You could really say he proved his father negative expectations wrong to the n'th degree thanks to the exreme style he developed.
He was also bullied a LOT as a child and probably felt like he had a strong need to prove things in life.


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

Type 5, 538.

ISTP


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## hiddenglass (Feb 18, 2021)

5⁶9¹2¹ scsp, iirc



Daeva said:


> Type 5, 538.
> 
> ISTP


where do you get 8??


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

hiddenglass said:


> where do you get 8??


He's a hard-ass, never quits, and doesn't shy away from confrontations, competitions, or intimidations. Very impressive for a 5 lead. Cool as a cucumber under pressure. 5-9 withdraws too much. Elon's response is to charge ahead instead. Takes on a million enterprises. Expand, expand, expand. The moon isn't ambitious enough. Let's push the boundaries of mankind's drive for exploration. He is spear heading electrical cars, travel to mars, etc. He is spearheading the future. All of this is exactly what the 3-8 combination does. He's just a nerd before all else. 🤓🚀 The trailblazer 5.

Edit: Plus he is so LOUD. The man is everywhere. He isn't shy about tanking the stocks of his own company because of some foot-in-the-mouth tweet saying that his company is overvalued.  He'll just do it again. He is like a 5 lead Trump lol. He doesn't give a f what people think of him. I bet he gets off on getting people to rage about his actions.


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## Dare (Nov 8, 2016)

RMck said:


> You make good points, but I'm still not sold on him not being a SP at the start. I'm an SP 3 and started my own company, was very risk tolerant, setup my own standards, and was vision driven, albeit on an ant like scale compared to Elon.


Yeah, people judge others through our own personality. I have a 1 SX streak in my (513) tritype — does this give me an advantage when it comes to seeing into the (albeit rare) 1 SX dominant or does it just color my perspective (meaning I see things that aren’t there or at least aren’t as important as other more prominent features I’m blind to). On this line of thinking: I had guessed you might be a 3 SP 



> Elon doesn't talk about being good or virtuous, but wanting to work towards a future he can look forward to and get excited about.


To my mind that is talking about ‘goodness’. Elon is always talking in moral imperatives “we should...”, “we ought to... for the benefit of humanity... and bc we need a (‘good’) reason to get out of bed...”. He does the opposite too, going around taking about how ‘bad’ short sellers are, how stupid (aka wrong) ABC is etc. If you listen out for this, it becomes very obvious how persistently he focuses on good/bad. Note too that social focus (‘we’/humanity) while trying to lead us (towards his ideal) — that’s a very 1 thing to do.



> He's more future oriented which is a 3/7/8 orientation.


Is it? Future obsessed INTJs come in all enneagram types, commonly 5s & 6s.



> He's definitely not past focused which takes out the 5 as an option.


Lol aside (I’m a future focused 5 myself), I agree he’s not a 5 dominant.



> SP 3's can look like 1's because they care about being what they present (not as surface focused as the social), and like 5's as they do tend towards a lot more research.


Yeah, 3 SP is the 3 ‘counter-type‘ (just as the 1 SX is the 1 counter-type). If you understand the 3 SP doesn’t necessarily appear like the average 3, you should be able to apply the same logic to the 1 SX vs the average 1.



> 5's are happy to just have the info.


Are we? 



> Elon fears failure more than he likes (almost direct quote), but if its worthy enough of a cause he plows through it (aggressively suppressing his feelings).


You do realize you just wrote: “...if it is worthy enough of a cause...” — that is a moral statement. More than that, it goes to motivation which is the core of enneagram.

1s are known to have several things in common with 3s; the ability to suppress feelings to get the job done is one of them.



> He also has a mushy side where he cries when he heard about Australians not being able to afford power (heart focus, not anger), his solution was "we will do better", which when faced with problems 3's think the only solution is to try harder.


On clubhouse the other week he said the thing that drives him relentlessly is the “rage demon” in his head. There’s your anger (and don’t forget that 1s generally suppress their anger). He’s well known for blowing up on employees.

From my perspective, there is no way Musk is an image type. He’s too willing to be ‘out there’ (considered crazy etc). I don’t see any evidence he’s SP focused either. It seems pretty obvious he’s SP blind.



> Either way... all the experts say you shouldn't type other people since we can't see their hearts lol, which I think for the most part we all disregard because its so interesting.


Agreed. For me it’s been a long term thing: my interest in astronomy as a child led me to an interest in SpaceX/Musk. A later interest in financial markets allowed me to see the view Wall Street has of him vs my perception of him. His moral driven motivation, workaholism & staggering genius aside (aspects foreign to me), I’ve felt I can see into his style of thinking (bc we’re both INTJ archetype 135s?). I’ve turned that into an ‘edge’ w/TSLA (betting on Elon when others couldn’t see/get it).



> I've worked with 1's and its a very different flavour


Some 1s are very ‘1’ (I’m thinking of a friend’s parent who you can’t talk to bc something said will send her off into a serious sermon which kills the mood), while others are very different — in some you can see the connection to artistic 4 & dynamic 7. 

In other words: I’m still happy to agree to disagree with you


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## visceral (Apr 11, 2017)

enneagram 1 sx read the biography book on him, it seem so evident there. he thought about the things with the most impact on human civilization when he was a kid. he goes towards what is attractive to him (ex. asking girls on his dates what they thought of electric cars). he tells people they shouldn't go on with artificial intelligence research because it will be the end of human civilization. he wants to take humanity to a another place because earth is going to be inhabitable soon. he has his own standard of what is right and what is wrong. he expects a lot out of himself and projects similar standards on his employees.


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## Daeva (Apr 18, 2011)

Type 5 can be idealists too.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

So many very interesting reads on him.
I won't add mine, as it just leads down the stupid rabbithole of...(My enneagram understanding is better than yours)...
Although my enneagram understanding is clearly superior, I just don't have time to throw pearls for swine


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## hiddenglass (Feb 18, 2021)

Inveniet said:


> So many very interesting reads on him.
> I won't add mine, as it just leads down the stupid rabbithole of...(My enneagram understanding is better than yours)...
> Although my enneagram understanding is clearly superior, I just don't have time to throw pearls for swine


there plenty of lurkers here, reading things.


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## majogutierrez99 (Dec 14, 2020)

steindieace said:


> Elon Musk is either a 1w9 or a 5w6.
> 
> Regarding the instinctual type, sx/sp.
> 
> Anybody else have any other idea?


For me he seems like 8w9 or 6w5


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

hiddenglass said:


> there plenty of lurkers here, reading things.


Yes there are plenty of those!


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## aurora-rosa (Apr 11, 2021)

Extraverted Thinker ennea 1


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