# How do you handle rejection?



## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

My response is to shrug and move on, since everyone's entitled to their preferences.


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## Rift (Mar 12, 2012)

same.

There's always more out there... but perhaps relates more to environments and situations I find dates or hookups. Which as I've gotten older are rarely friends first... so, there isn't as much of an emotional investment to be as affected by it.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

For me, it's not about 'many fish' and more about their inalienable right to have parameters that I don't fit. It's really okay for them to have these preferences. And maybe I'm delusional but I don't internalize this as 'not being good enough' since everyone's preferences are subjective, including and especially my own.


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## blossomier (Jul 24, 2020)

I also let it go and move on. These things happen. No one likes to be rejected but it's common.


mia-me said:


> It's really okay for them to have these preferences. And maybe I'm delusional but I don't internalize this as 'not being good enough' since everyone's preferences are subjective, including and especially my own.


That's a great way of handling rejection; to each their own. I agree with you, I don't think about 'not being good enough'. Maybe that person is looking for traits I do not have (physical, personality-wise or both) and I don't think I will change only to appeal to someone who's not into me. They can have their standards; that's ok.


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

Depends on the emotional involvement/investment. 

If there's none or little; shrug and move on.
If there's emotional involvement/investment; try to be gracious about it,sulk, and move on.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

I just drink the bitter aftertaste down with something sweet and allow myself the momentary arrogance of thinking it's "their loss." 








Can't please everyone.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

blossomier said:


> They can have their standards; that's ok.


Standards denote social hierarchies which would be the fastest way to get rid of me. Just express this and I'm turned off and gone in a heartbeat! 😄


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

mia-me said:


> My response is to shrug and move on, since everyone's entitled to their preferences.


I'm momentarily stunned, then I move on. It's their loss. 😋 


* *




I'm really not that stuck up. I am well aware I'm an acquired taste.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I'm momentarily stunned, then I move on. It's their loss. 😋
> 
> 
> * *
> ...


🤢


* *




You never struck me as someone with a fat head. 😄


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

mia-me said:


> 🤢
> 
> 
> * *
> ...


I'm not. I was hoping my humor was evident.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I'm not. I was hoping my humor was evident.


It was, hence the laughing spoiler so you'd understand that the green emoji was a joke.


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## eeo (Aug 25, 2020)

I'm totally fine with people having different preferences, so getting rejected in that kind of a situation wouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't even think it's their loss or blame myself in any way. If they're rude about it and start making fun of me for daring to reach out in the first place, then well, it is definitely their loss.

But I can relate to this:


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I don't think I really put myself out there enough to get rejected.

Attraction is different than respect--it isn't disrespectful not to be attracted to someone. And of course you don't need to be disrespectful to people because you aren't attracted to them--better to just leave them alone and let them be.


----

I'll tell an embarrassing story though--I bought some kind of lingerie (I don't know why--I remember I was really wanting to try new things at that stage in the relationship and in my life--so I thought it might be fun) and he immediately decided he "didn't like it." So I returned the damn thing and the guy who worked at the lingerie store eyed me suspiciously and asked "you didn't use it, did you?" And I assured him that "he didn't like it," and then his expression...I just wanted to sink into the ground or just die right there on the spot. So...yeah, I'll just avoid relationships like that in the future, thanks...because I don't really enjoy being mortified. 

So I don't enjoy being rejected, but ultimately it is way better to not be with someone incompatible. Way better. Rejection is good if it helps you avoid incompatible relationships. And everyone experiences rejection or they could.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

WickerDeer said:


> I'll tell an embarrassing story though--I bought some kind of lingerie (I don't know why--I remember I was really wanting to try new things at that stage in the relationship and in my life--so I thought it might be fun) and he immediately decided he "didn't like it." So I returned the damn thing and the guy who worked at the lingerie store eyed me suspiciously and asked "you didn't use it, did you?" And I assured him that "he didn't like it," and then his expression...I just wanted to sink into the ground or just die right there on the spot. So...yeah, I'll just avoid relationships like that in the future, thanks...because I don't really enjoy being mortified.
> 
> So I don't enjoy being rejected, but ultimately it is way better to not be with someone incompatible. Way better. Rejection is good if it helps you avoid incompatible relationships. And everyone experiences rejection or they could.


There's nothing embarrassing about this story. Most people try to work on their relationships but when it's a one-way street, it's over, and from the sounds of it, a river too wide to cross, relative to compatibility.


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## Glittris (May 15, 2020)

Rejection naturally happens..., one cannot simply just satisfy each need every time. I just move on, I am here when you need something.


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## Bacopa (Feb 25, 2021)

People who can't handle rejection already feel deeply rejected by everyone inside.


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## ENTJudgement (Oct 6, 2013)

mia-me said:


> My response is to shrug and move on, since everyone's entitled to their preferences.


Can't get rejected if you let the other person ask you out first.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

ENTJudgement said:


> Can't get rejected if you let the other person ask you out first.


Every single person gets rejected, whether they ask someone out first or not. The minute you're with others, even while walking down the street, people get rejected. It's all good.


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## tinyheart (Jun 17, 2016)

mia-me said:


> My response is to shrug and move on, since everyone's entitled to their preferences.


Cry then get over it lmao.


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## JakeTinker (Feb 28, 2021)

I don't make a fuss about it. Sure, could be a wasted opportunity or maybe it could actually feel discouraging, but it's not rational to act entirely on that discouragement and mope about, so I acknowledge what it is for what it is and do something productive instead.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Deuce said:


> Someone I really care for betraying my trust, however, oh man, that one stings.


Agreed, assuming that there was an agreed upon and discussed monogamous two-way relationship. Most recently, I was accused of cheating on a guy I wasn't even dating, lol. How nuts is that, considering what a big flirt he was and that he really didn't care that much about me anyways. It was all about his ego.


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

mia-me said:


> All this 'good enough' stuff, whether they are or you are, will lead to an erosion of self or a big ego. Forget that. Just shift your perspective to subjective metrics and incompatibilities and you might be surprised how much easier it makes your life.


thats the thing about rejection if they dont even give you the chance to see if youre compatible or not. if it's cause "youre not their preference" then obviously you arent "good enough for them" i mean sure you can look at it as " you're not what they are looking for" but again, it's all the same thing. they don't measure up or meet your expectation some how. of course everyone is allowed their preferences. and i guess its true it might not be that youre not good enough, just that they dislike or are uncomfortable with something about you. i dont think it's anything to be taken personally though. i am sorry i am kind of disagreeing with that aspect of what you said in the OP but I understand what you are trying to say I think. usually i find when youre rejected you dodged a big bullet anyway lol. whats it matter in the long run. if someone doesnt want to give you a chance its their loss. to be like, oh (whining) they didnt like me or want me, boo hoo, is pretty stupid cause you never know how it could have turned out anyway. could have turned out bad. so 50/50 you dodged a bullet and besides if you latch onto someone so bad it's probably not for the right reasons if they seem to not like or want you.

eta- one other thing about rejection is just because someone rejects you doesnt mean they might not reject you in the future. so thats something to keep in mind with your reaction whatever it is.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Penny said:


> thats the thing about rejection if they dont even give you the chance to see if youre compatible or not. if it's cause "youre not their preference" then obviously you arent "good enough for them" i mean sure you can look at it as " you're not what they are looking for" but again, it's all the same thing. they don't measure up or meet your expectation some how. of course everyone is allowed their preferences. and i guess its true it might not be that youre not good enough, just that they dislike or are uncomfortable with something about you. i dont think it's anything to be taken personally though. i am sorry i am kind of disagreeing with that aspect of what you said in the OP but I understand what you are trying to say I think. usually i find when youre rejected you dodged a big bullet anyway lol. whats it matter in the long run. if someone doesnt want to give you a chance* its their loss*. to be like, oh (whining) they didnt like me or want me, boo hoo, is pretty stupid cause you never know how it could have turned out anyway. could have turned out bad. so 50/50 you dodged a bullet and besides if you latch onto someone so bad it's probably not for the right reasons if they seem to not like or want you.


Meh, I don't believe in social metrics that rely on _*subjective bars*_ for entry or rejection.


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

mia-me said:


> Meh, I don't believe in social metrics that rely on _*subjective bars*_ for entry or rejection.


lol i have no idea what that means i will have to look it up


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Penny said:


> lol i have no idea what that means i will have to look it up


Do you agree that not everyone's looking for the same things in people?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

I think having to reject people that I am attracted to really helps me to see it more in terms of compatibility.

I mean...I am sure there are people who think I am not "good enough" for them, and that is kind of annoying because their value of me isn't my _objective_ value.

But I don't want to be valued for what I don't want to be anyway--if I could magically transform into someone else to be liked (and I probably could to a degree), would that really make me happy? No way.

So I tend to view it more in terms of compatibility and just people not fitting right. It can also be a matter of time--like perhaps at one time in a person's life we might be compatible, but not another. Or perhaps never. It's fine.

I just would rather see people with others they really are going to be compatible with--if I really like someone, then it makes sense I would want them to be happy with someone else.

It sucks of course--that things aren't simpler, that they don't fit together like two flat characters in an old Disney movie, and birds don't also carry ribbons around and serve you like slaves, and rats and mice don't sing little songs and such, but it's just reality.

It doesn't help me to think in terms of being "good enough" and I know I don't reject people always just because they aren't "good enough" or because I don't like them.

It can still hurt and it still sucks, but it's just how reality must work anyway, regardless of personal reasons. I don't need to bother with personal reasons of others that aren't going to help me as a person...love shouldn't tear people down. Not me and not someone else.

I don't have a big problem with unrequited affection--it just means I like them and they have something to give me (or thinking about them does)...similar to a professor in college--I don't necessarily have something to offer everyone, and that's okay. Sometimes things are one sided. Or vice versa.

I mean...there might be others who don't take "good enough" literally, but I don't find it very useful to think like that. If I'm putting myself down then I'm probably not appreciating what I do have to offer people which isn't that...realistic. If I can be better then it's something I also have to want. It can't be just based on what the other person wants.


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

mia-me said:


> Do you agree that not everyone's looking for the same things in people?


yes?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Penny said:


> eta- one other thing about rejection is just because someone rejects you doesnt mean they might not reject you in the future. so thats something to keep in mind with your reaction whatever it is.


Or that they could accept you and then reject you later.

lol this is something to keep in mind...FOREVER...that you could always be rejected even if you finally meet the perfect person and they reciprocate and you are compatible.










But then, I guess it's better to make peace with rejection than to let it reflect on your value to yourself. 

Also--they could just die anytime too even if you did end up with the perfect partner who never rejected you.








So rejection really isn't that bad, right?


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

WickerDeer said:


> Or that they could accept you and then reject you later.
> 
> lol this is something to keep in mind...FOREVER...that you could always be rejected even if you finally meet the perfect person and they reciprocate and you are compatible.
> 
> ...


lol. its the buddhist ideal of non-attachment. don't expect them to like you and you won't be disappointed if they do. (don't)


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Penny said:


> yes?


So what metric are you good enough or not good enough for? Some fairy hand wavy stuff, where 'good' and 'not good enough' are some randos interpretation of what makes them schwing and funnily enough, people often don't really know that either.

E - I should add the given, that the reverse also holds true since our preferences are just as fairy hand wavy.


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

mia-me said:


> So what metric are you good enough or not good enough for? Some fairy hand wavy stuff, where 'good' and 'not good enough' are some randos interpretation of what makes them schwing and funnily enough, people often don't really know that either.
> 
> E - I should add the given, that the reverse also holds true since our preferences are just as fairy hand wavy.


All I saw when I googled social metrics was a bunch of stuff about social media marketing metrics. I didnt see anything that seemed like it would refer to what you are talking about so I didn't look. Is that what you are talking about?


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Penny said:


> All I saw when I googled social metrics was a bunch of stuff about social media marketing metrics. I didnt see anything that seemed like it would refer to what you are talking about so I didn't look. Is that what you are talking about?


Never mind, stick to your 'good' or 'bad'.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

I'm bumping this thread because people fear being friendzoned. In order to be friendzoned, rejection comes first. If you perceive rejection from the perspective that the other person has inalienable rights to their preferences, not only does rejection lose a lot of sting, but so does being friendzoned since you gain a friend, someone you already liked in the first place.


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## Dalien (Jul 21, 2010)

mia-me said:


> I'm bumping this thread because people fear being friendzoned. In order to be friendzoned, rejection comes first. If you perceive rejection from the perspective that the other person has inalienable rights to their preferences, not only does rejection lose a lot of sting, but so does being friendzoned since you gain a friend, someone you already liked in the first place.


One would have to be mature or healthy to handle a friend zone.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Dalien said:


> One would have to be mature or healthy to handle a friend zone.


It's not a big deal, presuming people aren't perceiving their crush in sexual terms only.


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## Dalien (Jul 21, 2010)

mia-me said:


> It's not a big deal, presuming people aren't perceiving their crush in sexual terms only.


I agree.
Yet, the more mature or healthy one is, they can overcome the sexual tension in the case of all feelings and emotions for a person.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Dalien said:


> I agree.
> Yet, the more mature or healthy one is, they can overcome the sexual tension in the case of all feelings and emotions for a person.


Have you ever crushed on someone but not wanted to take it any further, simply enjoying the crush without all the messy turbulence and expectations involved in love and misunderstandings? I quite enjoy the simplicity and freedom of it.


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## Dalien (Jul 21, 2010)

mia-me said:


> Have you ever crushed on someone but not wanted to take it any further, simply enjoying the crush without all the messy turbulence and expectations involved in love and misunderstandings? I quite enjoy the simplicity and freedom of it.


Why yes. I have one now. He comes into the store I work at and makes it a point to have a good conversation with me. It’s been there for about five years or so—to be honest I’ve lost track of the time. And, yes it’s a wonderful simplicity and much freedom to it. I wish more people could grasp this notion.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Dalien said:


> Why yes. I have one now. He comes into the store I work at and makes it a point to have a good conversation with me. It’s been there for about five years or so—to be honest I’ve lost track of the time. And, yes it’s a wonderful simplicity and much freedom to it. I wish more people could grasp this notion.


Too often, people are tied into win/lose for their particular goal, instead of stopping and appreciating the moment. It's as if they dehumanize the person to the level of object to be attained and if they don't attain them, then they've lost which results in a hit to the ego, as if they feel they're not lovable. So they have to deny it, demonizing the object they can't attain because of course, they're lovable and sexually attractive. And truly, they are lovable and hot to some or many so if they rehumanize/reanimate the object of their affection, understanding that the other person has their own life, challenges and preferences, the ego hit doesn't need to happen. It might simply be the wrong time and/or assorted incompatibilities of lifestyle.


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## Eu_citzen (Jan 18, 2018)

mia-me said:


> Too often, people are tied into win/lose for their particular goal, instead of stopping and appreciating the moment. It's as if they dehumanize the person to the level of object to be attained and if they don't attain them, then they've lost which results in a hit to the ego, as if they feel they're not lovable. So they have to deny it, demonizing the object they can't attain because of course, they're lovable and sexually attractive. And truly, they are lovable and hot to some or many so if they rehumanize/reanimate the object of their affection, understanding that the other person has their own life, challenges and preferences, the ego hit doesn't need to happen. It might simply be the wrong time and/or assorted incompatibilities of lifestyle.


I believe a lot of people are more in love with the idea of a person, than the actual person. 
At least when it comes to infatuation. 

If they were more interested in the individual, perhaps there'd be less need to dehumanize them.
Either way, it's a shame they have to be so finicky and sensitive about it.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Not to sound conceited but pretty much everyone who has invested time in me has eventually really liked me and at the very least consider me a reliable, trusted friend.

So when I get rejected after a first date or meeting it irks me because I feel like I wasn't given a faire shake and simply judged on first impressions (which I do suck at).

But then I'm a hypocrite because I also feel like I can size up people accurately and draw conclusions after an hour of interacting with them, so......karma? :/


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

Samael1 said:


> Joking aside, I speak broadly to all forms of rejection, not just "romantic."
> 
> I don't take no for an answer. In all fields, persistence pays off, and quitters never win.
> Analyze failure, regroup strategically, try again. If failure is absolute and victory an unreasonable goal (or persistence a breach of another's rights), learn from it, be stronger for the next battle. I've tamed many stray and even some wild animals, not to mention "whispered" some other mounts with due diligence.
> ...


Agreed, I don't take no for an answer. Sometimes insist, don't take "no" for an answer. Because sometimes, a "no" can be turned into an "yes". A girl would like to see that you insist, that you are really there for her.

A rejection can be a test to see if you're persistent enough, if you like her enough to keep pursuing her even after a "no".

When a man makes advances, like saying "can I some and see you tonight?" and the girl responds "it's a big place, maybe we'll see each other some other time", you should still go and visit her. Given that, you know it's not her house and you're not breaking some private property, but you should still try to go and find her.

Because, girls may test men. She may test you to see if you insist and if you can make an "yes" out of it.


WickerDeer said:


> I think having to reject people that I am attracted to really helps me to see it more in terms of compatibility.
> 
> I mean...I am sure there are people who think I am not "good enough" for them, and that is kind of annoying because their value of me isn't my _objective_ value.
> 
> ...


I have mixed feelings about being "good enough", for multiple reasons.
1) Looks are kind of objective.
2) But personality is very subjective.
3) Is it really worth it to try to become good enough?

1. Until you discover the character and personality of another person, the first thing you see about them are the looks. Now, there are certain genetic traits that would make someone more good looking, but even looks have room for subjectivity.

Part of what would make you more physically attractive is to have a sense of style. To have a style that says something about you. Not just throw off clothes randomly. And to have clothes that you look good in. Not just good clothes. Because different clothes look good on different people. And of course being worked out, taking care of your wright as well as your face and your whole body helps.

2. When it comes to personality, I think it's pretty much preference. Sure, you can find plenty of people asking "what does it mean to be a man?", "what does it mean to be a woman?", in other words "what are the desireable male and female traits for the other gender?", but different people will give different answers to this, so you got to find the style that fits you best.

Generally, I would say women are attracted to masculine traits and men are attracted to feminine traits. This is why we have things like: As a woman, you have to be delicate, sensitive and feminine. You are seen different, you are not allowed to make mistakes. If you do what a man does you are looked at differently. As a man, you have to have decency in you, know when to intervene and when not, and have that splash of masculinity and imposing but without being mobbish or superior. So everyone pretty much has an idea of what an ideal man or woman is supposed to be like.

But even this general idea is full of exceptions in my opinion, preferences. Personally, I'm attracted to certain traits in women that are different from the norm, and while this is an isolated example, I doubt there aren't many people like me as well. So at the end of the day, since it comes down to preference, you got to find the style that fits you best, what is best for you and what works best for you and with you. Be what you like yourself best, and you'll attract the kind of people that also like those kind of things, as the old saying goes, similar people attract.

3. Since a big part of this is preference, can we still talk about being "good enough" ? Well, I think yes. Because it's not fully preference. While you like this and I like that, if people were to rate other people's attractiveness on a scale on 1 to 10, I think at some point there will be a consensus. There's no question that there are more or less objectively attractive traits, both in terms of looks and personality.

If someone rejects you, just get over it and move on. But if you feel like _"I am unloved by the people I want to love" _then I believe you are a lot lower on the attraction scale than you would want to be, so you need to change, you need to improve, so that you can become good enough.

When it comes to looks, I think it's common knowledge on how to improve them. When it comes to behavior, there's a whole field of charisma, being emotionally aware, being socially aware and understanding people in general that you can work on. And even relationships in general, such as skills for romantic relationships, habbits of succesful relationships, how to increase love in relationships, emotional laws, how to love and be loved, how to select the right relationships. The internet is full of answers, but you got to ask the right questions and find the right sources. Because at the same time, the internet is like a public market, everyone can say what they want, it's not a library.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Dezir said:


> I have mixed feelings about being "good enough", for multiple reasons.
> 1) Looks are kind of objective.
> 2) But personality is very subjective.
> 3) Is it really worth it to try to become good enough?
> ...


1) Looks may be sort of objective, but they also objectively (?) change over time. They are mutable and transient, and basing a long-term relationship off of looks seems like a silly idea.

Also, from what I have read (and some personal experience) good looks tend not to translate into good relationships--there isn't an increase in relationship quality or success for those who are above average in looks.

Though PUA type con-artist dating groups don't care about relationships anyway, they just want to have sex with as many people as possible without having to pay prostitutes.

I do think looks are important to a degree--in that they can indicate health and that someone should feel comfortable physically and have physical chemistry with another.

I agree about style to some extent, but it's important not to read too much into it. Some people think "bright colors means attention whore" or "short skirt means she wants sex" etc. But I do think you should feel comfortable with understanding the style of a partner and going out with them--if going out with someone with a three foot tall mohawk makes you uncomfortable, that's fine. There's probably someone else who likes that anyway.

2) I agree. There is a lot of variation.

And you can also find that there are people who like things you find distasteful but instead of focusing on judging people and complaining about why they like things you do not like, it's better to focus on what you do like and being flexible, imo, and accessing your potential.

This includes dealing with repressions. I believe we have a "shadow complex" for a reason--because there are things that we legitimately do not want to do, that we disagree with for good reason. But we should also be wary and mindful that we may have thrown something into a "repression" when it's not really that bad.

For example, a man might never shave his beard or a woman never wear makeup, and perhaps they could re-evaluate if they made those choices out of some outdated idea about makeup or beards, or if they feel deeply happy with their "style" as it is.

But some men and women like things you'll never like or want to be like and you should know where your boundaries are and not bother to try to appeal to someone who wants someone completely different than you.

(Though it's usually more of an issue if it's a bigger value thing, like meanness...if a man is really into women who are mean and cruel to others etc. then you probably aren't compatible unless you also want to be mean and cruel to people. Or if a woman is really into church and religion, you should really really consider whether or not you really want to convert to being religious etc.)

3. Yeah--I think self-improvement is good.

It's more of a problem when it's harming you or others...or if it doesn't fit with what you really want to do in your life.

But there are so many levels. The qualities that build a lasting relationship aren't necessarily the qualities someone's going to notice and be seduced/attracted by right away.

You kind of need both though, because if you're all seduction and con artistry, you're not going to be able to support a healthy relationship. But if you don't have any, then you may not attract anyone. Though there are also people who attract without any seduction at all--just using their sense of humor, their intelligence, their values and ethics etc.

I think it's good to challenge yourself to improve, but I also think sometimes others push you to "improve" in ways you really wouldn't want to, because the person who knows you better than anyone is you.

So if you like gentle girls who are dutiful and going to be very nurturing, and want a stable relationship with kids and a house and stuff, you shouldn't be changing your behavior to be more attractive to seat-of-the-pants, adventurer girls who want to travel the world etc.

You should be thinking about what you want your life to be like. And honestly, if you are looking for long-term relationships, then working on your life is also going to be another big component. Creating a life, a skill set, and a set of knowledge that you can share with the right partner.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

How I handle rejection? 
Chocklate.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

WickerDeer said:


> 1) Looks may be sort of objective, but they also objectively (?) change over time. They are mutable and transient, and basing a long-term relationship off of looks seems like a silly idea.


Technically, looks aren't objective, considering the composition of boy bands. They're selected for different tastes.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

mia-me said:


> Technically, looks aren't objective, considering the composition of boy bands. They're selected for different tastes.


I always get confused about how to use objective and subjective. I was just thinking that of looks as sort of "objective reality." Because they are the physical form...or something. 

But yes--I agree that attraction and beauty are subjective. So that makes sense to me--that looks mean whether or not someone looks nice to you. Yes--I agree that's not objective.

I guess I also just think about how someone might find someone they really like the looks of (find them beautiful or attractive), but they won't always look the same. So for a long term relationship it doesn't seem like the best foundation.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

WickerDeer said:


> I always get confused about how to use objective and subjective. I was just thinking that of looks as sort of "objective reality." Because they are the physical form...or something.
> 
> But yes--I agree that attraction and beauty are subjective. So that makes sense to me--that looks mean whether or not someone looks nice to you. Yes--I agree that's not objective.
> 
> I guess I also just think about how someone might find someone they really like the looks of (find them beautiful or attractive), but they won't always look the same. So for a long term relationship it doesn't seem like the best foundation.


Totally agree, especially since it's easy to take people's looks for granted after seeing them on a consistent basis. It's much like nose fatigue when you wear perfume. After awhile, you no longer smell it on yourself since the olfactory system unconsciously learns to ignore it. 

But this can't be explained to people who've never had a long-term relationship. It's one of those things that people have to experience, to understand.


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## Sinuous (Jun 18, 2021)

What kind of rejection? Social rejection? Romantic rejection? Family rejection? Coworkers rejection? 
Either way, I shrug it off 99% of the time, leaving that 1% for someone who I’ve been emotionally involved with, which is rare, but when it does happen, I grieve then move on.


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## Squirt (Jun 2, 2017)

There were a couple painful/memorable rejections in childhood that taught me how to handle them with grace and learn from them. In one case, I really upset the person and didn’t know it until they rejected me. That was totally horrifying at the time, to be so unawares.

As an adult, it hasn’t been something that I take personally unless I’ve done something specific to warrant the rejection and would like a chance to correct it. Rejection can be a productive interaction and opportunity to mature socially.


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## Penny (Mar 24, 2016)

pester them until you get what you want


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

WickerDeer said:


> 1) Looks may be sort of objective, but they also objectively (?) change over time. They are mutable and transient, and basing a long-term relationship off of looks seems like a silly idea.
> 
> Also, from what I have read (and some personal experience) good looks tend not to translate into good relationships--there isn't an increase in relationship quality or success for those who are above average in looks.
> 
> ...


1. True, your looks change over time, for better or worse, but you have control over some aspects of them, most notably: your weight, your fitness level and your hygene.

That's because looks only make you more attractive, they don't make you a better person in relationships.

What are PUA type con-artist dating groups?

But there's no denial that looks matter in a relationship, at least in the initial stages of attraction. People tend to end up with people of similar looks. Otherwise they feel that they are doing worse that they could do and aim higher, or better than they could do and feel insecure about their partner in the relationship.



WickerDeer said:


> 2) I agree. There is a lot of variation.
> 
> And you can also find that there are people who like things you find distasteful but instead of focusing on judging people and complaining about why they like things you do not like, it's better to focus on what you do like and being flexible, imo, and accessing your potential.
> 
> ...


Personality plays a big role. Probably equal if not higher than looks. It's not worth much if you're attractive in looks but are not that attractive in personality. On the other side of the coin, if you're not that attractive in looks, I don't mean ugly but average, yet have a great personality, people may get attracted to you because of the way you make them feel.

Personality can range form a huge array of topics: how good are you at communication, how good are you at building trust, how good are you at making the other person feel comfortable around you, how funny you are, how charismatic as in able to make good atmosphere are you, and so on.

And while I think people have a subjective preference to personality, there are tastes & preferences, especially when it comes to subjects of interests and passions. I think that for the most part, the objectivity of an attractive personality is a real thing.

Like, for example being funny. I think everyone can agree that being funny is better than not being funny. Sure, if you're not funny you can compensate with other things, but generally, being funny beats not being funny. In my view, humor is something absurd, something that makes no sense. At its core.

And I don't mean that in a literal sense "humor makes no sense", but rather the subject of humor makes no sense, things that are funny make no sense, they are funny because they make no sense. If that makes any sense. Like, it's a break of social norms, happening something that wouldn't normally happen, and if it's non-violent or non-hurtful, that's when we find it funny.

I think the best way to develop your personality is by being around people with great personalities, for we learn by immitation.


WickerDeer said:


> 3. Yeah--I think self-improvement is good.
> 
> It's more of a problem when it's harming you or others...or if it doesn't fit with what you really want to do in your life.
> 
> ...


Exactly. There is a huge difference between seduction / attraction and building a relationship.

Again, very true, you need both. If you're all seduction you can't form a long-term relationship. If you're all great long term relationship material but no seduction, you're not going to have a relationship in the first place. There's also the anxiety when you approach a person of a different sex, but I think the best thing to do is to just try and make a move, rather than ponder on it for weeks or try to be his/her friend which usually leads to friendzone.

Just try and make your interest known, if you get refused, at least now you have your answer and the confirmation without much headache or further doubts, if you get accepted, that's great.

Well said, it also depends on what you want. On what kind of women you want to attract. Because even with self-improvement, there's no one size fits all. As you said, a gentle, dutiful and nurturing girl isn't going to be attracted by the same things that a seat-of-the-pants, adventurer girl is going to be attracted.

But generally, I think there are some things that are objectively attractive, and others that are subjectively attractive.

But in self-development, you'll have a much better time going for things that are objectively attractive while keeping the things that are subjectively attractive to yourself.

Like, if you're passionate about books, keep that to yourself, don't change that, and instead work on things that would make you objectively attractive in other ways. If that makes sense.


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Dezir said:


> What are PUA type con-artist dating groups?


I will probably need to answer the rest of your post in a different post, but to clarify--PUA stands for "pick up artist." And there are groups of people who subscribe to various "pick up artist" techniques.

They are also called seduction techniques, I believe. I am not a pick up artist and I don't concern myself with seduction very much, so I am not an expert.

But did you know "con-man" was short for "confidence man," which I think is interesting in that a lot of PUA seems to argue that confidence is the key.

But when you really think about what they are doing, they are just trying to con women out of sex. PUA doesn't seem to care about relationships or even about the other person, just like a typical con-artist.

So I've begun to experiment with the idea that PUA is just a way to sugar coat the same type of behavior con artists exhibit, and pretend it's okay because the targets are women and they are trying to extract sex instead of money. Though it's inherently anti-social and rude.

Unfortunately people who are interested in actual relationships (lonely men) also end up learning pua techniques sometimes, as they are drawn towards becoming more seductive. But I think PUA crosses the line between seduction and con artistry sometimes.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with seduction, but I do think there's a lot wrong with PUA and how it's taught.


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## Dezir (Nov 25, 2013)

WickerDeer said:


> I will probably need to answer the rest of your post in a different post, but to clarify--PUA stands for "pick up artist." And there are groups of people who subscribe to various "pick up artist" techniques.
> 
> They are also called seduction techniques, I believe. I am not a pick up artist and I don't concern myself with seduction very much, so I am not an expert.
> 
> ...


I see, so it's a "pick-up artist confidence man", this makes me wonder. Are there such thing as pick-up artists non-confidence men?

It's not that confidence can make as awesome, but rather insecurity or feeling insecure can make the other person feel awkward around us, because we humans are empathetic creatures and we tend to resonate with the feelings of others around us. If they feel great, it makes us more likely to feel great. If they feel insecure, it makes us more likely to feel insecure.

Moreover, insecurity confuses people. Like, if you're insecure but build up the courage to approach someone, they would be confused. Why are they approaching me if they are insecure? Like, your body is doing one thing but your behavior and emotions are saying another thing. And if you're anxious, they feel more anxious, because we're empathic organisms.

I really thought the "con-man" stands for con artist man.

So PUA are basically the counterparts of gold digger. Women that are trying to use sex for money. Versus men that are trying to use pick-up for sex.

Although I kind of find a grey area in what they're doing, I don't disagree with that, because it's consent. I mean it's not like rape. They convince those women to sleep with them, those women want to sleep with them.

And I don't think they are into lying about their feelings and giving them false hopes of a relationship, since that would probably take a lot more time that the PUA con-man doesn't have, but rather being attractive and alpha male enough so that women want to sleep with them. This is all based on assumption, I don't know how a PUA con-man actually operates.

Seduction is a skill. Con artistry is what you do with those skills. 

If people who are interested in actual relationships are using PUA con-man seduction tactics to get actual relationships, where is the issue in that?


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## WickerDeer (Aug 1, 2012)

Dezir said:


> I see, so it's a "pick-up artist confidence man", this makes me wonder. Are there such thing as pick-up artists non-confidence men?
> 
> It's not that confidence can make as awesome, but rather insecurity or feeling insecure can make the other person feel awkward around us, because we humans are empathetic creatures and we tend to resonate with the feelings of others around us. If they feel great, it makes us more likely to feel great. If they feel insecure, it makes us more likely to feel insecure.
> 
> ...


con man does stand for con artist man. But the etymology is interesting when you consider confidence...and giving someone more confidence than is earned or worthy.

con (adj.)
"swindling," 1889 (in *con man*), American English, from confidence man (1849), from the many scams in which the victim is induced to hand over money as a token of confidence. Confidence with a sense of "assurance based on insufficient grounds" dates from 1590s. *Con artist* is attested by 1910.

Seduction is superficial and so it makes sense that it doesn't reflect the depth of the individual or their motivations for a relationship etc. But could allow for more deception because it is so superficial. So I guess it would depend on how honest and forthcoming the seducer is being--whether it is consensual or whether they are hiding intentions or motivations because they think the person wouldn't agree were they to have all the info.

I'll have to get back to it later.


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## Sily (Oct 24, 2008)

I think I just moved on. I can't remember at this point ever begging someone to love me. I think it has to do with my desire being low. I certainly didn't turn all Christian Bale/American Psycho on their ass, wearing a raincoat and dancing back and forth in a bedroom.


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## HypernovaGirl (May 9, 2016)

Only read the title. I think I handle it well when I understand why the rejection is there. Like, if I have feelings for a friend who is dating someone else, I tell him my feelings and he ignores me, it is simple. 
It is harder for me when I think I am being great, when I think I am being honest, fun, useful, then I don’t get it.
But what I have learned is that if someone is rejecting you when you believe you are at your best, they and you are just not aligned at that moment.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

😅😐Actual rejection, or the perceived rejection in my head that's actually non existent?


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

For every hot woman out there, there is another hot woman nearby.

But rejection, what really is rejection? If I goto a sweet shop and choose strawberry Bonbons over Chocolate Bonbons, am I rejecting the Chocolate Bonbons. We do not exist in a void, women have options, if she chooses someone else over me, that says more about her than me. And who cares, am I going to base my self-esteem on what someone I hardly know thinks of me. Its all water off a ducks back. Rejection is just part of the game, once you stop fearing it and hating it, the game becomes easier.


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## Infinitus (Jul 12, 2019)

Depends on the level of investment. For casual situations where I’m having a punt, I’m more likely to be prepared or expecting it, so take it like a man. For an ongoing connection I’m more likely to be sensitive and hurt, but can hide it fairly well. If it’s a serious long term thing, I’ll probably end up devastated & crying.


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