# Did you feel a deep shame when you first read about your Enneatype?



## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Why would anyone be ashamed of their type?

It's just what it is man.

Typically I tend to embrace the idea of being a type fairly warmly, even if it does show my ~darkside~


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## Juan M (Mar 11, 2011)

Mmmh i dont think that its because it hits your type. 

I felt shame when i read my type description because it talked a lot about fives beeing autistic and a lot of other negative adjectives. Read Naranjo´s five and compare to Naranjo´s seven and you will know what i mean.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

Juan M said:


> Mmmh i dont think that its because it hits your type.
> 
> I felt shame when i read my type description because it talked a lot about fives beeing autistic and a lot of other negative adjectives. Read Naranjo´s five and compare to Naranjo´s seven and you will know what i mean.


But were the negative adjectives in type 5's description uniquely able to hurt you... because you are a type 5? We're not all equally insulted all by supposed "insults" - some of them bother us much more than others, because of our life history. If someone called me "lazy" I would be much more hurt than if someone called me "too aggressive" (just for example), because all my life I've been struggling with my laziness, and its a sensitive issue for me, whereas I've never struggled with being too aggressive, so I wouldn't particularly react to it.
So for you maybe being "autistic" (or whatever that really means in this context) was a sensitive issue, precisely because it was your correct type...
if that makes sense.

All of the type descriptions have negative adjectives in them, but what I'm arguing is that the negative parts of your own type are the ones that hurt you the most, because it's your dark side, it's what you've struggled against, its what you may be afraid of others knowing. Of course, you may have done a lot of self-work and have to some extent risen above your dark side, in which case reading your Enneatype description would remind you of all the struggles you've overcome, rather than cause you shame.


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## Flaming Bassoon (Feb 15, 2013)

Yes, I felt like I was getting punched in the face and then started crying because fours cry a lot. Obviously.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

Type Seven here. No, I didn't experience shame. 

It was more like "What the fuck is this shit. No, I don't act this way. This is ridiculous. I feel so much pain, how can they say I flee from it?" My results on most tests were a tie between 4 and 7 for those that reported the values. But for those that only had one value, I type as 7. So, I just ignored the results and went to do some other stuff, but the thing kept eating away at my mind. I mean, I felt like a type 4 but when I talk with other type 4s, it felt a bit off.

So, after a REALLY REALLY LONG time introspecting, I was like, okay, yeah. It actually sounds like me. Like even the way I first respond to typing is to throw myself into activity and taking a shit load of tests to confirm rather than to introspect inside myself. And the reason I went back to find out the truth was because it felt unsettling not to know that part of me. Not so much that it's an undiscovered part of my identity that I don't know about and so I want to find out more about myself, but because it felt wrong not to know it, and because I want to get rid of that feeling, so I must know.

I'm actually still doing tests up to today to double, triple confirm, hahahahahaha. And I enjoy taking the tests because it's like slamming the button on a toy machine and seeing what new things come out. But yeah, when I finally thought back to my childhood and my life experiences, I was like... Yup, definitely a 7.


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## Retsu (Aug 12, 2011)

Not shame, no. I only knew I was a Six for definite from continuously doubting my own type and scoring as Six on tests constantly. I did think I was a Nine (and scored as it on some tests) but I (used to be) a very, very phobic Six. I'm more counter phobic now, which some descriptions fail to mention at all and generally tar all Sixes with the same "constantly fearful" brush. I used to identify with that and it felt right to just have something to describe why I was the way I was. Now I cringe and think... this _is _me but I don't necessarily agree with the stereotype of being afraid all the time.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

@_RobynC_

I would have pegged you for a counterphobic 6 pretty quickly. 

As for shame, hell no. My typing made perfect sense.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Bahburah said:


> I got type 7 and it made a lot of sense to me.
> 
> It is the more extroverted of types though which threw me off but now I see how it makes sense for me.
> 
> I'm introverted in the true sense of the term (recharge on my own, drained my people) but my behaviour when around people can be more extroverted in an (I know this isn't MBTI but...) Fe kind of way. It's just social awkwardness and anxiety that gets in my way sometimes.


Fret not, I'm a 5w6 and an ENTP.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

tanstaafl28 said:


> Fret not, I'm a 5w6 and an ENTP.



Thats weird, I wonder where the lines of ENTP and INTP cross with that.



Well I guess with Ne being first and all.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

Bahburah said:


> Thats weird, I wonder where the lines of ENTP and INTP cross with that.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I guess with Ne being first and all.



I have a strong 8 fix.


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## LyeLye (Apr 24, 2014)

A tiny bit yeah. At first I was just amazed at how accurate it was, but when I started to look at the health levels and the descriptions on the other sites I felt some shame. Especially when I started to compare it with other descriptions and I thought the other descriptions, in particular the description of Type 1s, were more positive. I actually showed the description of Type 4s to some of my friends, who had already figured out what type they were, and we actually started to joke about how dismal my future looked on some of the sites. However, now I'm just happy because I finally figured out that some of the insecurities I had that I thought were strange are actually quite normal to Type 4s.


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## entheos (Aug 18, 2013)

Yes and no. When I took the test on several occasions, I always got the highest punctuation for e4, and then closely followed by e9. So close that it was only a 2-3 points difference. When I read descriptions for both in the following days, I felt tremendous shame for e9, much more than for 4, but I didn't relate to it (9) 100%. With 4, it's me 100% no doubt, and yes, reading all it had to say made me extremely upset to the point where I stopped reading enneagram altogether because I couldn't process it. I remember having a short-lived depression after reading about both 4 and 9.
And so it was in comparison to 9 that I thought "Well, e4 sounds grotesque, but at least I'm not a 9". (Sorry 9s, what I'm saying is horrible, I know :/). A year since my enneagram "discovery" has passed, and I read a lot more about it all obviously, and the more I read about 4 the more grossed out I became. I have to take breaks between reading sessions because there's only so much internal demons I can face. And by breaks I mean weeks or months. But I also have a twisted feeling of pride, as in "Yeah, this is the perfect shadow side to have mwahahaha". As if, the deep shame I have for my shadow turns into a fortress, precisely because I feel powerless about it, and I hate feeling powerless so I take control by putting it on a pedestal of sorts. However, every time I look at it I get sick to stomach.
But like I said, it's not exclusive to 4. I feel the same way with 9 and 1 (I scored high on 1 too). And what happens is that I look at 4 and go "Well, at least I'm not [insert other type], 4 is so much nobler/better". I feel like a martyr or something.


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## mushr00m (May 23, 2011)

Something more like 'ah, that makes a lot of sense' once I got my mutts on a good description - I think it was that 6 description on the Ocean website was the first decent description I could lay my hands on then. And once I got the gist of what was holding me back as the descriptions put it, I started experiencing a more deeper understanding of how I have made decisions in the past, my reactions to events and such. Tbh, I wasn't exactly shocked, it told me the basics of how I already knew I was throughout my life, the first thing I mentioned in the questionnaire on this website was that I craved security and consistency having experienced too much unpredictability and turmoil in my environment, what I didn't know though was the full nature of the beast, how deep set my fears were mainly due to being so immune to my experience. Fear of many things is so ingrained in me and so is planning ahead mentally to feel safer. Having said that, when I read Naranjo's 6 description, I didn't want to pull the wool over my own eyes, I wanted the truth and I s'pose yeah, when reading what really guided my actions, it was a shocker in places especially knowing what a fixation of security led by improbable fears can lead to. That's quite scary! Excuse the pun, sorta.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

Yep... I was soooo embarrassed. That said, I think that some types really are made out to sound better or worse than others, depending on the source, haha.


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## OrangeAppled (Jun 26, 2009)

I wouldn't call that a foolproof way of determining type... but I had a strong emotional reaction the first time I read an in-depth description of the e4. I wouldn't call it "shame", but it hit hard. I'm always super aware of shame, it's a very prominent and even driving (or perhaps inhibiting) force in me, so instead I felt a strange sense of relief. As in, the shame is not ME. I felt a similar sense of relief when I first read a decent INFP description - it was like, "Okay, this is _normal_". Contrary to popular belief, as a 4, I want to be normal, in a way.


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

Shame? Never.

My first typing was 8 (over half a decade back). I felt a profound sadness when I read the description. 

My second typing was 3 (a couple of years back). For the most part, I felt acceptance mixed with some discomfort primarily owing to the centrality of "failure" in most descriptions which until recently had made no dent for me, and I definitely had moved past and above failures in my life. I typed at 3, not too long after I had been recovering from a massive professional setback that devastated me in more ways than one. It was "the" failure of a lifetime lol. It co incided with the deaths of close family members the same year and my relapsed PTSD. So, disintegration to 9, the way it's described (withdrawn apathy, numbness etc.), struck a nerve with me. In retrospect, I can see how I may have over-focused on the dis. when it's best explained by the fact that I wasn't neurotypical at the time (Major Depression, PTSD) and not some pseudo sciency mumbo jumbo. 
I definitely have a lot in common with 3, and I am not closed to the idea that it may be my core type but not for the reasons above. 

A while back 7 come up in discussions with a close friend who suggested that I consider it. I've had quite a few people suggest 7w8, and I had a very lolzno reaction to it over the years until I decided my understanding of the type required work. Especially after the close friend's suggestion and well considered arguments, I have been giving it thought sporadically. I don't feel any shame when I read 7 descriptions. I do feel compelled to do other things XD. There's definitely a lot I identify with very closely and for very profound reasons. There's an element of repulsion there. 

The only plausible types for me are 3/7. I am in no hurry to 'conclude', and I have no need for 'closure'. I learn from both, and life moves on like it's Tuesday. :3 It'll come to me whenever. 
_______________________________


Lastly, I want to make a point about 7 descriptions. 7 is called a 'superficial' type, and it's fuckin ridic how superficial 7 descriptions are. Even Naranjo's 7 is, in parts, ludicrous. Maitri's 7 description is good, and David Daniels does a decent enough job. 

I mock @_Swordsman of Mana_'s typing charades, and I know he is a 7. But, having gone through several authors' writings on the type again, I see why he is somewhat frustrated. He is not the stereotype of 7, when you actually get to know him well. Maybe you should start a thread about 7 descriptions SOM. Plenty such stuff exists about 6, 8, 4 and 3, but hardly ever is 7 touched in this context. There's great stuff on this forum on type 9 thanks to @ Dying Acedia's threads. But, hardly anything on the superficiality of 7 descriptions. (irony much lol). A big reason why is that mostly the descriptions are rather 'positive' and flattering. A lot of people mistype at 7 because of this. I find more and more that 7s, especially those with a lot of life experience and self work behind them or 7s who are more emotionally "dark" and turbulent, find the party animal non commital glitter barfing 'soft minded' descriptions lacking.


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## Reluctanine (May 11, 2014)

@Naqsh

I totally agree with you, and after I recently typed out this post... Yeah, I realised I'm definitely a 7w8 all the way. Not a 4w5, definitely not a 1w2 as my main, though those other two are my probable tritypes.

ANNNNDDDDD I recently finally felt that deep shame everyone is talking about.






When he starts talking about FOOOOODDDDDD, that's me. Facial expression, passion, train of thought. And yeah, loooong list of likes, and I look around at everything when I'm out walking. But I think because I'm an INFP, I don't look much at people, more like the environment. And I "dance" to music when I walk too, but only when I'm not with a friend to talk to. I don't care if other people see me, I NEED to do it. I head bop, drum my fingers and have a spring in my step while I'm staring at clouds and trees and ignoring people.

I don't identify with the relationship part though. I guess because I've learnt to self-entertain and bring up topics of conversation that interest me/us. I really appreciate my time spent with a friend one-on-one because I have to use up energy to talk, so I make it the best positive experience I can, even if it's to talk about sad feelings with them, since, well, that's what a friend is for, right?

So, what did I do when I felt that deep shame? I LAUGHED AT IT. Lol. Even now when I see the way he talks about food again it still makes me LAUGH. I feel embarrassed and ashamed, but it still makes me LAUGH. I don't know why. :laughing:


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## -Alpha- (Dec 30, 2013)

Naqsh said:


> I definitely have a lot in common with 3, and I am not closed to the idea that it may be my core type but not for the reasons above.


What are the reasons you have a lot in common with 3?


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## Sina (Oct 27, 2010)

-Alpha- said:


> What are the reasons you have a lot in common with 3?


Bleh. Don't care to regurgitate specifics now and on this thread. I've covered it plenty elsewhere. 
@Reluctanine

I'll have a look at your post.


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## CaptSwan (Mar 31, 2013)

Not the first few times; the very first time, years ago, I typed a Five; then, I went to Six and Eight... However, upon reading the descriptions didn't bring any particular shame; I found myself in possesion of a copy of "Character and Neurosis" by Claudio Naranjo... Boy, oh boy; did that break me! At first, I read about Type 8; and, I felt that, although brutal, it fit, so, I went with the flag. It wasn't until later on, with the help of users who're experts on Enneagram like @Naqsh, I came to know I was a Six. However, I still wasn't fully convinced; until I met @Arya; who kindly (and much to her amusement) would point out how my behaviour was characteristic of certain types: How my view of the world had Six written all over the place; and, how I'd rant about how I could not have a One fix because I wasn't good enough to be a Type One. Although I'm still a work in progress, I'm getting closer to know myself; even if I still fight over having Type One in my fix, I've accepted and realized I'm a Six. Funny enough, I came to discover that, many of my favorite movie stars of all time were Sixes; coincidence, I know, but... curious nonetheless.


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## Alles_Paletti (May 15, 2013)

Not really. Why be ashamed of what you cannot help but be? Being ashamed of conscious decisions that I made and were "wrong", that I behaved in ways that in hindsight I regret, yes. Being ashamed of having a core fear or personality type that's just there? No, I can't decide to have it, just how I deal with it.

Personally, a possible reason for a feeling of shame or guilt might be if I used my personality type as an excuse/justification for my actions, hiding behind it and denying responsibility for my choices.


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## hal0hal0 (Sep 1, 2012)

Naqsh said:


> Lastly, I want to make a point about 7 descriptions. 7 is called a 'superficial' type, and it's fuckin ridic how superficial 7 descriptions are. Even Naranjo's 7 is, in parts, ludicrous. Maitri's 7 description is good, and David Daniels does a decent enough job.
> 
> I mock @_Swordsman of Mana_'s typing charades, and I know he is a 7. But, having gone through several authors' writings on the type again, I see why he is somewhat frustrated. He is not the stereotype of 7, when you actually get to know him well. Maybe you should start a thread about 7 descriptions SOM. Plenty such stuff exists about 6, 8, 4 and 3, but hardly ever is 7 touched in this context. There's great stuff on this forum on type 9 thanks to @ Dying Acedia's threads. But, hardly anything on the superficiality of 7 descriptions. (irony much lol). A big reason why is that mostly the descriptions are rather 'positive' and flattering. A lot of people mistype at 7 because of this. I find more and more that 7s, especially those with a lot of life experience and self work behind them or 7s who are more emotionally "dark" and turbulent, find the party animal non commital glitter barfing 'soft minded' descriptions lacking.


Heeeeeey... that reminds me; you never got back to me on that thread I wrote _*literally *_a year ago :laughing: (holy crap, you posted this on 7-16-2014 and my post is from 7-16-2013... what are the odds???

http://personalitycafe.com/type-7-f...ndy-syndrome-type-7s-existential-dilemma.html

I take that as a sign. TBH, though, I need to reread through that post and see if I still agree with it. I wrote it partly in order to educate myself about type 7 because I felt I had a "revelation" about what it is. I wouldn't be surprised if it is riddled with old misunderstanding and beginner's mistakes.

^Hm... looking back at it, I hadn't even touched Naranjo, Maitri or the others yet. Pretty much a combo of RH and timeless' descriptions.


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## Ummon (Jun 16, 2014)

Well, I kind of disregarded the idea that 8 might be in my tritype because I was too excited about the possibility of being an INFJ type 1 like Gandhi. XD But it's okay, because now I can be Aragorn.


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

Bahburah said:


> I got type 7 and it made a lot of sense to me.


You know I was actually going to ask if anybody was INTP 7...


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

No,I felt proud both when I read about 3 and about 4.They sound great compared to some other types.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

No.


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## RedRedo (Jul 8, 2014)

Shame may not be the right word, but your type should hit you. There should be bad things there so accurate that it bothers you. Stuff that if someone were reading all that to your face, you wouldn't know how to deal with it.

I guess as someone reevaluating my own type, I'm not the most qualified to do this, but here's my favorite Enneagram test: read a list of the basic fears of each type, and see which one punches you in the gut.


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## 007phantom (May 1, 2010)

I've known about Enneagram for a while but I just read a lengthy explanation of my type yesterday and it doesn't make me feel ashamed it makes me feel vulnerable. It cuts into weaknesses that I wouldn't have dared to think up on my own, its like something I wish my mind could fight against and prove wrong but I know the description makes total sense. I see my flaws so much more clearly. Its like I've had a veil over myself this whole time and couldn't see myself and in my head I imagined myself to be resolute and strong but the veil is lifted and I see weakness, softness in places where others are strong.


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## Brian1 (May 7, 2011)

I wouldn't say deep shame. I think I needed to know more about myself, and that's why I took it, but it wasn't like this diagnosis that was terminal. Like, 'oh no I have cancer. How could I have cancer, I've been doing everything right?' I think a lot of people who want to find themselves take the quiz, and they become angry over the result. Since I'm not obsessed with it, there was nothing to feel. Having become more learned in it though, I think 7s get a bad rap, because we enjoy pleasure in external stimuli, like sex or food, racing fast cars, thrill seeking. But in the US, for all the emphasis on sex, the US is still a puritanical society, and indulging in food is gluttonous, and you could make it seem like we're hedonists. And many people think hedonism is a bad thing. I just read a discription that talked about narcissism, and they didn't go to the vainglory of a 2, or the I'm always a victim 4, They went and used type 7. Like I am a very caring person, but, I think what angers me is supposed educated people who know everything, write these things up, sell them to people who have been hurt, and then it gets reported as fact. Oh so you've been bullied, this means you are a 4, and 4s are innocent victims here. Bullies are usually these cocky self assured people, usually those people are 7s, therefore all bullies are 7s. Incidentally I had problems with 4s who saw themselves as victims before even knowing my 7 story. And then you throw in we're spontaneous, and that becomes impulsive, 'and, all impulsive people are bad young man.' It must be pretty hard being other people, but I enjoy being a 7.


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## ChocolateBunny (Aug 5, 2013)

Nope. None at all. I don't really know why it would? Sure, everyone has weaknesses...but I don't see how mine would be worse than that of others or make me feel ashamed. We are what we are. I thought while reading through the type 5 weaknesses that it was actually kind of funny (because it was true though). Although, sometimes I wish do I weren't a type 5.


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

RobynC said:


> You know I was actually going to ask if anybody was INTP 7...


They work brilliantly together.


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## Figure (Jun 22, 2011)

Some here have asked why one would feel shame after learning what your enneatype is. This has become a mythical light at the end of the tunnel for people who cannot determine their type and/or relate to several - that the type that makes you feel the worst must be the one that drives the deepest into your unrealized habits.

Personally, I did not feel shame because I typed at 1. The feeling was more of intrigue - what else do I do that I'm not aware that I do (which ended up being/still is a LOT). The hardest thing wasn't so much reconciling myself to theory, but the reverse, reconciling theory to myself. I've known for a long time that I'm not a detail-obsessive, praisethalawd evangelist, dot every i type of person - no shame there - so how, then, is the type pressed into my habits? To answer that, I had to look into recurring mind frames, kneejerk reactions to everyday events, self-concepts, and my own unquestioned assumptions about almost anything and everything. This honestly caused me more stress, frustration, and futile self-regulation than it did shame. 

When I typed at 8, it bothered me equally to know that I have hurt people I care about out because I had to have my way. When I typed at 7, it bothered me equally to know that I have an entitled, dishonest, slippery side that I sometimes can't control. All of these things are possible for my true type, as they can be for 7 and 8. Feeling shame for your type doesn't mean you've typed correctly, or that you've made poignant observations about yourself.


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## Antipode (Jul 8, 2012)

I know myself pretty well (plight of being an introspective person), so my type didn't come as a shock to me. 

Type 9: Passive aggressive quiet dude... yup.


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## RobynC (Jun 10, 2011)

@Bahburah



> They work brilliantly together.


Do you seem ambiverted or ENTP ish?


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## Bahburah (Jul 25, 2013)

RobynC said:


> @_Bahburah_
> 
> Do you seem ambiverted or ENTP ish?


Nope, to much Si to be ENTP, and not really ambiverted, I still get drained socially.

I think the type 7ness in me just makes me more relatable to people. 7's usually have a wide variety of interests so I'll usually understand and have tried lots of things or hobbies, and this can help with people. (Stuff I usually try on my own)

I don't like describing type 7 like this but it's just cool. People think type 7's are cool for some reason and I see it.

7 just "gets it". lol And from that people begin to like you.

It is a head type after all.


Just because I can outwardly express excitement docent mean I'm extroverted.

I wouldn't say that 7's are extroverted, just more engaged in what there exited about, which when you think about it is actually more subjective.

Being INTP, I usually get exited about ideas, and like seeing them become living reality though art.


I would describe myself as a dude, yet others might say I'm a bit eccentric.


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## baby blue me (May 9, 2014)

I'm rarely ashamed, thank you for asking. Being a 3 is not even one of those rare occasions.


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## Superfluous (Jan 28, 2014)

I really dont feel like most descirptions go into the depth of seven. I instantly knew 7 was me, but because it all sounded superficial it didnt really irk me. I read a quick paraphrase of naranjo's work on 7 the other day, and I felt a bit offended however. Naranjo saw the 7s as passive aggressive - but with humor, and though we have diplomacy we are hyper aware of the manipulation. "behind every good boy there is a spiteful brat" and I was like,_ Hey what the.. what in the hell?_ and that annoyed me - because I saw home in it.


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## charlie.elliot (Jan 22, 2014)

RedRedo said:


> Shame may not be the right word, but your type should hit you. There should be bad things there so accurate that it bothers you. Stuff that if someone were reading all that to your face, you wouldn't know how to deal with it.
> 
> I guess as someone reevaluating my own type, I'm not the most qualified to do this, but here's my favorite Enneagram test: read a list of the basic fears of each type, and see which one punches you in the gut.


This is a great way to describe it, for me - I believe that reading your type description should definitely HIT you. Thats why I have a hard time understanding people who can't decide between 3 or 4 (or even 5!) different Ennea-types... its like, "but which one HITS you?" How is it not just a gut knowing? but of course I am a body/gut/instinctual type, sooo...


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