# Si vs Se?



## a peach (May 21, 2015)

I know I'm a sensor of some sort, but I'm having difficulty deciding on which I am. I'm jumping back and forth over and over, perhaps I'm misunderstanding something or maybe subconsciously wishing I was different in some way? Whenever I type myself, I always come to want to be another type, and am able to talk myself into believing I have different functions, and now everything is all "mushed" together that I have no idea;;;;

(If you want to be of any extra help, please feel free to contact me or go through my posts LOL)


But what is the real difference between Se and Si? How do you relate to either?


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## Asura (Apr 2, 2016)

@softcult

Se is active engagement in the physical senses. People with higher Se tend to be very excited by new experiences and unexpected events. That's where the stereotype of Se doms all being party animals comes from(certainly not true haha). Se isn't actually too complicated as it's very physical and present.

Si is more of a subjective remembrance of those same physical sensations. Whereas Se "lives" it Si "interprets" it. Si applies senses to what senses have been experienced in the past. When a new experience occurs their usual first perception is how they have experienced something similar in the past. Wheras Se tends to be energized more by what is currently happening Si is often excited or energized by what it knows it has enjoyed before.

Compared to either Ne or Ni both Se and Si prefer factual and grounded reality over ideas and "what ifs" 

This does not mean S types aren't creative at all though. S upper types *start with* what is concrete and explore from there while N types start with what could be and work their way back.

Feel free to ask any more questions if it's still hard to understand haha.


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## Kynx (Feb 6, 2012)

On a function level, Se perceives purely objective (at least as objective as a human can perception could be) sense impressions. Si randomly superimposes subjective sense impressions onto objects. This difference is usuaĺly very slight and not consciously noticed by the Si type. 

On a conscious level, the difference is hardly noticeable. 

You would be better off determining the orientation of your J function or going by type descriptions in order to find out your type.


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## Stevester (Feb 28, 2016)

Hmm, just ask yourself if you're a cautious person or a bit of an adrenaline junkie.


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## Snakespeare (Jun 6, 2015)

Intro to Function Theory + More Detailed Descriptions of Each Function Attitude

This is a great post about functions. Might be the best one I've come across.

Edit: Might as well do this:



> *Se, or extroverted Sensing,* is dominant for ESxP, secondary for ISxP, tertiary for ENxJ and inferior for INxJ. It is the attitude that what is directly apparent in our immediate physical surroundings is the most important thing to go by. Se leads you to follow your gut instincts, pay very close attention to what's going on around you, and respond to things in the moment in whatever way will make the strongest and most immediate guttural, sensory impact on others. Se users are so present-focused that they're often on the cutting edge of new trends because they place so much emphasis on what is current and new. They like to learn things via a hands-on, figure-it-out-by-experimenting-as-you-go, direct experiential approach (in this way they are similar to Ne) but they are more focused on what is immediately tangible than on what their surroundings might be changed into. They usually pay a lot of attention to their physical appearance and are very good with reading body language and using it to immediately size up a person or a situation and respond instinctively. They can be quite impulsive and prone to overindulgence in sensory pleasures, but they also know how to work a crowd and they tend to make themselves into reflections of current popular trends--whatever will make an impact.
> 
> Se is the opposite of Ni because it intentionally focuses on the literal surface meaning of exactly what is going on right in front of you right now, whereas Ni tries to ignore that and see the hidden meaning in what is not directly apparent.





> *Si, or introverted Sensing,* is dominant for ISxJ, secondary for ESxJ, tertiary for INxP and inferior for ENxP. It's related to Se in that it deals with sensory experience, but rather than constantly scan for everything about what's going on now, it relies on internalizing those experiences into an extremely detailed internal map of highly vivid *memories* of those past sensory experiences. This dependence on reliving past experience and using it as a guide for the present leads to an extremely good memory for detail, and a general attitude that going with what we know for sure from having experienced it before is usually best.
> 
> Si is the opposite of Ne because rather than relate new information to some larger external, constantly changing pattern, it tries to relate all new information to something it already knows, some sensory data that it's absorbed from its past experiences. This leads to the classic Ne vs. Si battle: Ne wants to try something new just for the sake of doing something different and finding something interesting; Si wants to stick to what we've done before because its vivid memories of direct experience allow us to relate the new information to that past information we've already absorbed.
> 
> ...


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## Notanidealist (Jan 16, 2017)

I'm not an expert on the theory but what seems to me to be a common "tell" for Si types is their love of setting and following procedures. For example, if they get a new home appliance, they will come up with the best procedure to use it and always do it that way (and often insist that everyone else do it that way too). 

For example, my ISFJ mom tried to teach me how to sew when I was a kid. For her, it was step-by-step procedure. First, you decide what to make, then go to the fabric store, pick a pattern and choose a suitable fabric, buttons, etc., measure, pin, cut out, etc. Being an NF, I found the whole thing incredibly tedious and never really learnt much beyond being able to hem a pair of trousers and sew on a button.

My current hair stylist is a lovely Russian lady who makes a lot of her own clothes, which are beautiful, stylish and absolutely perfect for her, by the way. She is also one of the few stylists who have ever been able to handle my incredibly weird hair. I think she is probably an ISFP (Se user). I asked her about sewing and her method was very different from my mother's. She goes to the fabric store and looks around and feels the fabric. When she finds one she likes, she "just knows" (lower order Ni) what she is going to make out of it. She starts with the raw material and then intuits what to do with it.

Now, obviously my hair stylist's sewing technique relies on a lot of knowledge of the procedures that go into sewing, and my mom's also involves an enjoyment of different fabrics. But one starts with the knowledge of past procedure and the other with here-and-now engagement in the physical world. That's Si vs Se in a nutshell.


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## Aelthwyn (Oct 27, 2010)

In my experience, Se folk tend to get sleepy or bored fairly easily without stimulation and tend to get to a 'been there done that' point relatively quickly, always looking for what's next rather than lingering over something they've already done or experienced. They seem energized by situations where they have to 'wing it' in real time, enjoying spontaneous action and surprising experience (it doesn't have to be extreme). Feeling capable to 'roll with' whatever is thrown at them seems to be a particular value or aim. Whereas Si folk tend to enjoy re-visiting experiences and keeping focused on some activity/topic for a longer time, enjoying the familiar. While they do enjoy new experiences, they like to be prepared and may be thrown off balance by unexpected things and snags in the plan - they usually have a plan and are busy checking one thing after another off the list, thriving on the sense of accomplishment.


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## a peach (May 21, 2015)

Hello hello everyone, my apologies for the late reply;;
But all my thanks for everyone who has responded thus far, I really appreciate it_!_ ♥

I think for the moment, I may settle on the ISFJ type. When it comes to socionics, I am more than certain that I am SEI (Si + Fe). And from reading these descriptions, I feel more than sure when it comes to Introverted Sensing; remembering particular impressions, enjoying things I loved from the past, etc. (Hopefully it's the right type for me?)

@Asura by the way, I really wanted to thank you for your response in particular, as you went out of your way to kind of—what I saw it as—put down the stereotype that S types are not creative. I know it's particularly frustrating when I see the iNtuitive bias on tests and descriptions, and am mistyped by others for not seeming like a Sensor because I "show too much interest in personality type theory." It really means a lot to know there's more users like you that feel the exact opposite, and it really did put a smile on my face_!_ Thank you_!_ ♥


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## Wisteria (Apr 2, 2015)

Si is the focus and appreciation of the "quality of life" so to speak, prioritizing aesthetics and leisure time in order to maintain a healthy homeostasis. Its the ability to internalize sensations and experience it to the fullest detail. Just trying to explain why people who describe Si as forming a subjective impression from an "object".

To contrast, Si is about following ones needs because they aim to maintain a calm inner state while Se can be defined as a focus on an externally driven conception in order to acquire/achieve something (which is why MBTI often describes Se as experience or adrenaline seeking). Se types tend to seek direct action in order to achieve an impact. 



Notanidealist said:


> I'm not an expert on the theory but what seems to me to be a common "tell" for Si types is their love of setting and following procedures. For example, if they get a new home appliance, they will come up with the best procedure to use it and always do it that way (and often insist that everyone else do it that way too).


This seems more like an example of a person using logic (/thinking functions), probably Te. Following a certain procedure for the sake of efficiency. Si types do ritualistic behavior like this too (as you describe in your post) but for different reasons (like comfort, maintenance or safety)


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## Notanidealist (Jan 16, 2017)

Wisteria said:


> Si is the focus and appreciation of the "quality of life" so to speak, prioritizing aesthetics and leisure time in order to maintain a healthy homeostasis. Its the ability to internalize sensations and experience it to the fullest detail. Just trying to explain why people who describe Si as forming a subjective impression from an "object".
> 
> To contrast, Si is about following ones needs because they aim to maintain a calm inner state while Se can be defined as a focus on an externally driven conception in order to acquire/achieve something (which is why MBTI often describes Se as experience or adrenaline seeking). Se types tend to seek direct action in order to achieve an impact.
> 
> ...


You're right. I oversimplified this, conflating the two functions. The procedure thing is probably Si-Te as opposed to simply Si, especially if the procedure is primarily based on efficiency, minimizing wear and tear on a machine, or some other logical principle. My husband is an ISTJ and he's completely this way. My mum (ISFJ, I think) also seems to follow a lot of procedures or routines and, from the outside, their behaviour often seems identical. For example, the new appliance situation will initially cause both of them a certain amount of stress/excitement until a firm procedure or routine for using it is in place. When I go to my mum's house and want to make one cup of coffee in the middle of the day, it upsets her routine of making a full pot in the morning. Of course, she's also in her mid-70s now, but she's always been pretty much like this.


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## The red spirit (Sep 29, 2015)

*INTROVERTED SENSATION*

Quasi-defining statements

p. 169: “When we use Introverted Sensation, we don’t adjust to our surface perceptions. We package them and take them with us–in the form of facts, numbers, signs, and memories.”

p. 170: “When we use Introverted Sensation, we stabilize our immediate sense impressions by integratng them with the ones we remember and care about. We "find ourselves” in whatever is happening, because our perceptions are anchored by what we already know.“

p. 170: "Introverted Sensation gives us the will to accumulate information–names, dates, numbers, statistics, references, guidelines, and so forth–related to the things that matter to us. … Such facts are highly selective. … They’re part of our self-experience. They define the specific nature of our passions and interests. They become our basis for taking in new data.”

p. 171: “From an Introverted Sensate viewpoint, immediate conditions have no stable meaning. They’re just an influx of data impinging on the senses. And our response to these impressions depends on our mood, our state of mind, our desires, our feelings. It’s our commitments and priorities, the facts we hold inalienable, that give our circumstances enduring significance.”

*As a dominant attitude:*

p. 174: “ISJs…don’t believe for a minute that the universe is inherently rational. For these types, the outer world is a jumble of ever-changing perceptual experiences, dictating ever-changing behavioral responses. What ISJs maintain, and maintain unconditionally, is their priorities, which stabilize perceptual reality and give it consistent meaning.”

*Proposed definition #1: You need a map*

Introverted Sensation (Si) is the attitude that what is manifest (apparent, observable) is overwhelming in its complexity and patternlessness, and that the only way we can find our way through it is with a map. To make our way through the unpredictable, we need to anchor ourselves in some way, to know what, in that vast chaos, to focus on. (See Orienting.)

*Proposed definition #2: The unknown is dangerous, so anchor yourself in the known
*
Introverted Sensation (Si) is the attitude that the unknown mostly contains threats that will undermine life and order. Given the precariousness of life–so many things have to be jjjjust right–the odds of something unknown being beneficial are very low. Consequently life demands that we carefully filter the unknown before letting it into a position of influence, that we construct barriers against the unknown, etc.

For example, in engineering, one is primarily concerned with designing systems that won’t fail even though most of the exact causes of failure are not knowable in any precise way. Engineers learn many different ways in which things fail, and learn to design so that the things work, or at least major disasters don’t occur, even when things go wrong–as they inevitably will. A bridge is typically designed to hold a load 6 times bigger than the biggest anticipated load, simply so it will resist unexpected troubles–shearing winds, or cracks in unexpected places, or who-knows-what that might come along and can never be fully anticipated. The full breadth of relevant dangerous factors is inherently unknowable.

An everyday example is to allow some extra time when leaving on a trip. The reason for leaving some extra time is because the world is filled with unpredictable things that could make you late. Very few unpredictable things could come along and make you early if you left late.

From the Si standpoint, the more you’re going to depend on something, the more carefully you’d better inspect it, because you never know what unknown things might go awry, you only know that most of them are bad. Compare Extraverted Intuition, which leads to the exact opposite attitude toward the unknown.

*Si in the Inferior Position*

Si provides information about the fixed and stable, the facts / constancies of the universe. At it’s best, it provides such information as a firm basis for proceeding forward into the world. Where Si occupies the inferior position (as it does for those with dominant Ne), it is strongly tainted with unconscious contents. In these cases, Si may manifest as negative/malevolent images of eternal tendencies in people and situations that will not change. Such tendencies may well be present, but inferior Si sees the part as the whole. Inferior Si is also linked to feelings of nostalgia, overwhelmingly vivid internal imagery and a selective recall of facts and memories that are highly emotionally charged.


*EXTRAVERTED SENSING*

Quasi-Defining Statements

p. 145: “As a right-brain function, Sensation comes into play when events are changing so rapidly that linear analysis is impossible. We respond immediately, on the basis of visual and tactile information, guided by what we’ve done before.”

p. 145: “Once we…know how to dance, we aren’t thinking about rules or instructions. We’re directly engaged by our surface perceptions–the rhythm of the music, the movements of a partner. We’re changing as our situation does.”

p. 146: “[Quoting Pirsig] 'The material at hand determines his thoughts and motions, which simultaneously change the nature of the material at hand. The material and his thoughts are changing together in a progression of changes.’”

p. 146: “It happens when we’re kneading bread and the pressure of our hands changes with the texture of the dough. It happens when we’re moving a ball downcourt for a chance at the hoop. It happens when we’re driving, alert to a whole field of sights and sounds. It happens when we’re playing in a band. It happens when we’re knitting a sweater. Every time our actions are changing immediately and directly in concert with our surface perceptions, we’re drawing on Extraverted Sensation.”

p. 146: “The only way to cultivate Extraverted Sensation is by hands-on involvement–by strengthening the link between sensory perception and neural response. Our bodies have to get into the act. For types who use this function as their primary approach to life, true knowledge is always concrete, a product of firsthand experience.”

*Proposed definition #1*

Extraverted Sensation (Se) is the attitude that whatever is manifest (apparent, observable) calls forth an obvious and natural response, that has nothing to do with the way you need to respond in any other moment. The meaning of everything is readily apparent–at the time that it appears. Whatever stands out and gets your attention here and now is precisely what needs your attention here and now. Your instincts at each moment will tell you what to do; there is no point in anticipating.



*Proposed definition #2: Orientation by gut*

Extraverted Sensation is orientation to your environment by immediate, gut-level response. “Trust your gut.” Orienting to your environment this way, you don’t think, you don’t reflect, you just react. If you feel disgusted by something, you back off from it. If you like something, you dive into it. If you feel like bopping someone on the head because they made you mad, you bop them on the head. You completely trust your immediate, instinctive response.

To orient yourself the Se way, the meaning of the signs you encounter must be obvious and trustworthy, without your having to think. If your natural response or interpretation of something is wrong or doesn’t immediately work, you can’t deal with it.

When you are oriented in the Se way, you live completely in the moment. You respond now to what is happening now. What happens later, you’ll deal with later. What’s happened in the past is irrelevant.

*As a language of ego orientation*

As a dominant function, Se leads ESPs to live a life of fun and pleasure, enjoying the now. From an unmitigated Se perspective, what there is to do in life is get attention and make a visible impact in the world: create a spectacle, be popular and well-liked, enjoy wine, women, and song, go along with the crowd (that’s where the action is), dress fashionably, see and be seen, eat at the hippest restaurants, and generally “have a good time”. If it looks good, if it feels good, what else matters? They cultivate a public image to fit what is attractive according to the currently prevailing standards of their culture (see Orientation by Pop Culture), and they merrily shift along with shifting fashions. They learn what “plays”, and they play to that. They don’t worry about internal contradictions, or continuity of present behavior with past traditions, or long-term consequences. They do what gets an immediate effect right now, of a sort that requires no explanation. What you do from an Se perspective is plain to everyone. From an Se perspective, anything complicated is mere speculation. What’s true is what works now. Whether it works tomorrow is a matter for tomorrow. They negotiate for every physical pleasure they can possibly get, and they negotiate hard. They develop a gut sense for reading what a person really wants, and what a person really fears, and they work that for all it’s worth.

As a secondary function, Se leads ISPs to make “what plays” into the object of their thoughts. The world of appearance and spectacle provides them with a subject matter to analyze and comment on from an outside perspective, especially to point out (from the sidelines) how people are attempting to be cool but failing, ha ha. ISPs often see themselves as the true leading edge of cool, hipper than hip, into what becomes popular before it becomes popular. As a path of further development and expansion of consciousness, Se shows ISPs how to “go with the flow”, to “accept” what is, to “be present” to what is happening right now, recognizing that they can’t control it. Incorporating an Se way of orienting themselves, they find a way for their dominant moral perspective to bear fruit in any circumstances they find themselves in. Their dominant function has led them to cultivate a way of being, or state of grace, that feels possible only in a private space, where public perception is not a factor (e.g. Michael Jackson’s Never-Never Land Ranch). Se tunes them in to public perception in a way that enables them to fully be themselves wherever they are, freely giving their gifts to all comers, and unconditionally accepting the results.

As a tertiary function, Se often leads ENJs to maintain a certain show of force. If reason won’t persuade you to play along sensibly, maybe that rifle on my wall will. I won’t say anything explicit, but you know as well as I do that we don’t want to go there. The unstated threat need not be violent, of course. It might just be to fire you. There’s always something in the ENJ’s bargaining position held in reserve, which would really pinch if he used it, and you know at a gut level that he wouldn’t hesitate to use it if you got out of line. Some ENJs depend heavily on a Douglas Macarthur-like sense of theatrics and spectacle to keep the masses bedazzled while they do what they think needs doing. Sometimes tertiary Se leads ENJs to practice a peculiar philosophy of “honesty”: the sort where if you feel like punching someone in the face, you view it as “dishonest” to refrain from doing so–a philosophy of giving vent to whatever your animal nature comes up with at the moment, and having the “courage” to deal with the consequences without anticipating them. Mild forms include yelling louder than someone to win an argument, or demonstrating by your physical demeanor that you are viscerally more committed to something than an opponent. From the Se perspective, “in a conflict, the more committed party always wins.” (An Ni perspective would lead you to search for a third way, one that dissolves the conflict rather than winning it.)

As an inferior function, Se often leads INJs in either (or both) of two directions: to shun everything of a bodily nature as corrupt and animal (e.g. Immanuel Kant), or to crave “letting loose” and table-dancing or delivering some serious violence. In the grip of the inferior function, they try to make others feel weak by displays of physical power (or trying to get others to compare themselves with physically powerful people), but usually end up only making themselves feel like helpless bugs. “See how POWERFUL I am? See my ANIMAL MAGNETISM?” Some get into guns or karate, taking an off-kilter delight in fantasies of getting into a confrontation with someone and surprising the hell out of them with the damage they can do (see Taxi Driver). Some idolize jazz musicians as people who are completely in touch with their animal selves, able to “let go”. Some join academic cliques where the object is to make other people feel unpopular by snubbing them for not being up on the latest intellectual fashions–a sort of faux popularity contest, where the wider social standards are reversed and the most unintelligible gibberish gets the most attention. Some use esoteric jazz or modern art to make a twisted marriage of Ni and Se: “It might sound like an incoherent mish-mash of notes to you, but that only shows that you lack the finer discernment of the really cool people.” A different way, perhaps the genuine reunification with the inferior function, is to find an unconditional pleasure in “the now” and a peaceful, live-and-let-live philosophy–enjoying each moment, “being present” no matter what comes.

Less dramatic, more recreational (and more common) forms of tertiary and inferior Se include athletics and engaging in physically dangerous activities, like auto racing and bungee jumping–providing the participants visceral proof that they have power over the physical world. Or simply enjoying these activities in a pure way, for the thrills they offer, no differently than an SP.

Naturally, you can see plenty of dominant-style Se in ISPs, secondary-style in ESPs, tertiary-style in INJs, even inferior-style in (criminal) ESPs, etc.

*Extraverted Sensation in the New Testament?*

Matthew 6:28-34

And why take ye thought for raiment [clothing]? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: and yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself.

*Negotiation, Se-style*

When people negotiate Se-style, they make it viscerally apparent that pleasure immediately follows doing as they want and pain immediately follows turning them down.

The sort of negotiation that Joe Pesci’s characters engage in in movies would be a hyper-Se form of ESTP-style negotiation. The person he is dealing with knows, at a physical, visceral, undebatable level, that he will be much happier if he plays along. Joe Pesci’s characters expand their power, influence, and sense of who they are by sensing what viscerally matters to the people around them and using it.
*
As an inferior function*

p.235-36, on INJs: However, when these types are defending their inner world against inferior aims, they invariably focus on terms that suggest a sensate viewpoint–that is, one determined by surface criteria: gender, race, color, and so forth.

*Information isn't mine, here is the source:* MBTI & Enneagram | Part 2: Lenore Thomson's Descriptions of Cognitive...


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