# Another theory of matchmaking



## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

*Another typology matchmaking theory*

There are several theories purporting to match types in romantic relationships. I derived the following theory using the research findings described in the following video. I don't necessarily agree with these ideas but put it out for your consideration.






Helen Fisher studied the brain chemistry of love and attraction and found that there are four "brain systems" distinctly associated with four "constellations of personality traits", each linked to one of four chemicals in the brain. The chemicals are dopamine, serotonin, estrogen, and testosterone. Dopamine is associated with sensation seeking, and people whose brain activity is dominated by this neurotransmitter are energetic and restless, like novelty and enjoy taking risks. Serotonin is associated with mood, and people whose brain chemistry is dominated by this neurotransmitter are calm and controlled, like structure and are risk adverse. Estrogen and testoterone are, of course, the sex hormones responsible for male and female traits. People whose systems are dominated by testosterone are analytical and emotionally contained, competitive and bold. Finally, people whose systems are dominated by estrogen are empathic and emotionally expressive, flexible and agreeable. Fisher claims that her studies show that matches between people with certain brain systems yield the best results, in particular, serotonin people are best matched with other serotonin people, dopamine is best matched with dopamine, and testosterone is best matched with estrogen. Serotonin and dopamine are best matched within their own systems because they share the same values, serotonin for stability and dopamine for adventure. Dopamine people appear to be happiest when they can move from relationship to relationship--ie, serial monogamy--while serotonin people are happiest in stable, long-term relationships.

That's Fisher's work. To extend it to MBTI, I mapped each chemical to a form of cognition. Dopamine I assigned to extroverted perception, serotonin to introverted perception, estrogen to feeling, and testosterone to thinking. It follows that the types are matched EXXP to EXXP, IXXJ to IXXJ, and F-dom to T-dom. Each type, then, is matched to four other types. For example, INTP would be matched to INFP, ESFJ, ENFJ, and ISFP. Notice that this includes both Keirsey's match, ENFJ, and socionics' dual, ESFJ. This will be the case for each type in the T-F pairing. It will not be the case for the dopamine and serotonin pairings since in both Keirsey and socionics these two groups are matched to each other on the basis that opposites attract. In Fisher's system, however, dopamine and serotonin are too different to be good long-term matches. 

Finally, we can reduce the possible matches to a single best pairing for each type by matching auxiliary functions using the same map. So, for example, INTP Ti-Ne would be testosterone-_dopamine _and would be matched to estrogen-_dopamine_, or Fi-Ne--ie, INFP. Doing this for all types we get the following results:

INTP-INFP
INFP-INTP
ISTP-ISFP
ISFP-ISTP
ENTJ-ENFJ
ENFJ-ENTJ
ESTJ-ESFJ
ESFJ-ESTJ
ENTP-ENFP
ENFP-ENTP
ESTP-ESFP
ESFP-ESTP
INTJ-INFJ
INFJ-INTJ
ISTJ-ISFJ
ISFJ-ISTJ

I can't speak for all of these matches, but I can say that, judging by the "INTP appreciation" threads, INFPs appear to like and have good relations with INTPs, and vice versa, not least because the two types are similar in many ways. Since each type also shares many similarities with its partner, I imagine every type has much the same appreciation for its partner as INTPs and INFPs have for each other. So, on its face, these pairings appear to be workable. Furthermore, the basis for these matches is founded on actual research. The research may prove to be wrong, but at least there is some empirical evidence supporting these results, unlike Kiersey and socionics that are based solely on theory and speculation.

Comments? Do these suggested matches work for you?


PS Another video from Fisher giving a fuller explaination of her ideas.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Moderator, can you move this thread to the Sex and Relationships forum? thnx


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

I want to make a few comments about Fisher's ideas to put it and this theory in proper perspective. First, the idea that a single chemical can be responsible for a "constellation of personality traits" is a bold one, and Fisher herself admits that further work is needed to place the biological basis of personality on firm footing. So these results are really provisional and incomplete. I suspect she put them out there in these nominally definitive terms because she was engaged by and works with Match.com. So she is pitching the company maybe as much as she's pitching her own ideas.

About that research itself, the idea that testosterone is attracted to estrogen is hardly new or controversial, since these hormones help express sex differentiation and regulate sexual attraction. The idea that dopamine and serotonin should not be mixed contradicts the commonly held notion that opposites attract. But this idea, if you think about it, has its roots in the attraction between the sexes, or between testosterone and estrogen. So there appears to be an internal inconsistency in Fisher's prescriptions. On the one hand, she claims opposites attract, while on the other, she claims they don't. Why the difference? I think it lies in biology. Testosterone and estrogen are sex hormones, and we don't control our sexual preferences. These hormones are programmed, as it were, to attract each other. Dopamine and serotonin, otoh, are neurotransmitters and are not, to my knowledge, connected to our sexual preferences, so we have some freedom to choose one or the other. 

What is the evidence supporting these ideas? As mentioned, Fisher worked with Match.com, presumably helping them devise their methodology for pairing couples. In this work, she had access to their database of personal information supplied by the thousands of members of that site. This is a large sample. However, she didn't actually perform lab tests on all of these people to determine their brain systems. Rather, I suspect she analyzed the personal information of Match.com users and deduced their types. I'm going to assume this is not as reliable as making actual measurements themselves. In fact, if I recall, Fisher said she only performed measurements on about "78 people". So the actual evidence on which her ideas stand is much smaller than might at first appear. (It's quite possible there may be other research that also lends support that she didn't mention because of the informal nature of her presentation. Nevertheless, the body of evidence is surely much smaller than the association with Match.com suggests.)

What other evidence is there? There are a set of studies conducted by two psychologists, Paul Tieger and Barbara Barron-Tieger, who co-wrote the book Just Your Type (availaible free on-line--google it). They interviewed and surveyed about 2000 people and analyzed their self-reported satisfaction with their relationships and correlated this with their MBTI types. They found that people who described themselves as being similar to their partners reported higher levels of satisfaction (52%) than people who considered themselves different (22%). When broken down by T-F and J-P, the four pairings that reported the highest satisfaction were all T-T or F-F and all but one were J-J or P-P. The exception was TJ-TP couples who reported a 71% satisfaction rate, third highest in the study. The four pairings that reported the lowest satisfaction were all T-F, except one, the TP-TP coupling (46%). These unsatisfied pairings were also all J-J or P-P save for the TP-NJ coupling. 

So what does this mean? It appears the sexes don't get along as well as Fisher believes! Or, to be more accurate, the judging functions don't appear to mix, and by inference, neither do testosterone and estrogen. (This will come as no surprise to anyone who's been in a close relationship with a person of the opposite sex!) Also, there appears to be little decided preference for judgers or perceivers. Since judging and perceiving map to serotonin and dopamine, this result doesn't appear to support Fisher's findings. Mixed dopamine-serotonin pairings appear to have the same chances of success or failure as common neurotransmitter pairings.

So Fisher's studies appear to be contradicted by Tiegers' studies. Who is right? Well, it should be recognized that the two studies measured different things. Fisher measured attraction in new and potential couples, Tiegers measured satisfaction in actual couples who had been together for some time. This difference accounts for the contradictory conclusions on the effect of the T-F dichotomy and suggests that while T-F opposites may indeed attract, it's the T-T and F-F likes that form more enduring bonds. 

Looking at temperaments, we begin to see support for the idea that people are more satisfied with partners whom they consider similar to themselves. SJ-SJ couples, for example, reported the highest rate of satisfaction among all pairings at 79%. NF-NF reported the second highest rate of satisfaction at 73%. The least satisfied same-temperament pairings were NT-NT and SP-SP, both at 59%. But this still puts them in the middle of the pack, well ahead of the most unhappy twosome, NF-SJ (46%). (NTs reported highest satisfaction with NFs at 64% while SPs were happiest with NTs at 73%). On balance, then, there is a bias in favor of same-temperament pairings. 

Taken together, these studies suggest Ts and Fs feel a initial mutual attraction, but in the long-run enjoy higher rates of satisfaction with people who share their judging functions. There is also some evidence that Js and Ps--particularly in SJs but also (to a lesser extent) in SPs--experience greater satisfaction in relationships with other Js and Ps, respectively. This last conclusion is the one on which both studies appear to converge.

Finally, I might compare these results to some personal observations. I've found that both Ts and Fs have been attracted to me in about equal numbers, while Ps have outnumbered Js. So I can't vouch for the T-F results of either of these studies, but I can say that my experience corroborates Fisher's finding that P attracts P.

What are your experiences?


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

> Most of them are based on inductive theories with little to no research to back them up. It's nice to see someone doing a little research about this. However, I feel like I'd have to know more about Fisher's research design to get an idea of how valid her research is. Admittedly, I just watched to the first video. The second was tl;dw.
> 
> Anyway the chemicals seem to be related to the four temperaments, which have various names:
> 
> ...


Thank you. That's interesting. And, no, Fisher didn't mention the four temperaments, though they may have appeared on some of her slides and I just didn't notice. She didn't associate the chemicals with any system of typology, either. That was my doing. So if there is a mismatch, the blame lies with me.

I've seen these "temperaments" (or "humors" as they were known in ancient Greece) before and agree they don't quite match up. I think this is at least in part because they have negative connotations that don't exist in MBTI theory. The humors were considered by the Greeks to be body fluids that regulate our personalities, and because of this direct association with physiology were used in medical practice to diagnose pyschological disorders, such as melancholy which comes, of course, from the melancholic humor. MBTI says nothing about melancholy, much less that certain types might be disposed to it. So there is a kind of mismatch of origin and use. Fisher didn't go into these negative aspects of brain chemicals, but had she done so it might have given me pause before I plunged in and mapped the chemicals to the MBTI dichotomies. So thank you for pointing that out.

As you know from reading my follow-up post, there is already some evidence (from the Tiegers studies) that contradicts my theory. I put it together to see what would fall out and don't have any pride of ownership. In fact, I'm already working on another theory. 



> And with regards to compatibility in general, most of the research I've read seems to support that similarity is usually correlated with attraction and compatibility. However, there is also some evidence that suggests that having differing personalities led to greater satisfaction down the road in long term relationships.


Yes, I've never seen a study that concluded the same or diametrically opposite types make the best matches. It's always something in between that balances enough similarities with some differences. The question is what those similarities and differences should be. You appear to have studied this question. Do you have any answers?


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

It's a great read and thought. The only problem is I find myself in three of the four types. I love traveling, I like traditional long term relationships, and I'm very much the estrogen push over.

As to your pairings I would admit the one match stick burn the house down relationship was with an ENTP. Though it lasted as fast as it sparked. If I look back at relationship that I loved and trusted it would be ones I made with an INTJ. In fact I find myself drawn to not only INTJs but INFJs. There is something about an introvert who draws me in and captivates me. Hell there is even an INFP that is pretty charismatic in my eyes. I know you wanted to pair people up with E to E but I think the E to I is still a much better fit for me.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

NIHM said:


> It's a great read and thought. The only problem is I find myself in three of the four types. I love traveling, I like traditional long term relationships, and I'm very much the estrogen push over.
> 
> As to your pairings I would admit the one match stick burn the house down relationship was with an ENTP. Though it lasted as fast as it sparked. If I look back at relationship that I loved and trusted it would be ones I made with an INTJ. In fact I find myself drawn to not only INTJs but INFJs. There is something about an introvert who draws me in and captivates me. Hell there is even an INFP that is pretty charismatic in my eyes. I know you wanted to pair people up with E to E but I think the E to I is still a much better fit for me.


Yes, the ENFP-INTJ pair is a popular one. I only question its long-term viability. INTJs are one-trick ponies who won't go places that don't interest them. ENFPs are wild horses that want to run free wherever the trails may lead. This is a formula for growing apart, if ever I saw one. 

As the research shows, opposites attract, but likes bond.

I didn't spell it out in my posts, but you can place the types along a spectrum with dopamine at one end and serotonin the other. The judging-doms who have both neurotransmitters in more equal measures will lie in between. An ENFP who wanted a partner who is less excitable than she is but didn't want someone at the other end of this spectrum who is as staid as an INTJ could take one step towards the middle and choose from the judging-doms, like an INFP, who is not as afflicted with wanderlust as she is but is still more adventuresome than INTJ. Likewise, an INTJ who wanted someone more reliable than an ENFP could take one step to the middle and choose someone like an INFP or INTP who have adventurousness and stability in better balance. So the theory can be used to make choices outside of those recommendations I listed.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

NIHM said:


> It's a great read and thought. The only problem is I find myself in three of the four types. I love traveling, I like traditional long term relationships, and I'm very much the estrogen push over.
> 
> As to your pairings I would admit the one match stick burn the house down relationship was with an ENTP. Though it lasted as fast as it sparked.


Fisher says the dopamine group is happiest in a series of relationships. It satisfies their need for variety and adventure. And it's easy to say you want a long-term relationship--until you're in one, then you might change your mind. Just look at married people. So of the three things you said you like or are, this is the least reliable, imo, since it's something about which you can easily fool yourself now and change your mind later.

I might add that you see this Pe wanderlust more clearly in the EXTPs, especially the males. This may be the T and the testosterone talking. But in EXFPs it's the same Pe. The only difference is the aux Fi that can send mixed signals and confuse EXFPs. But Pe is _dominant _and will win out, even if aux Fi deceives itself on this point in the short-term.

Edit: just occurred to me that it may be inf Si in ENFPs that attracts them to the idea of long-term relationships. But it's inferior and is no match for dominant Ne.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> Yes, the ENFP-INTJ pair is a popular one. I only question its long-term viability. *INTJs are one-trick ponies *who won't go places that don't interest them. ENFPs are wild horses that want to run free wherever the trails may lead. This is a formula for growing apart, if ever I saw one.


An example. My INTJ friend. Likes history and current events. Loves to talk about these things. Can be insightful but will go on and on and can be the biggest boor. Dislikes music, movies, literature, sports, doesn't travel. Can't talk to him about any of these thngs. Oh, and he doesn't have a sense of humor, though he likes to laugh at other people's expense.

And he's a smart guy. PhD. So it's not stupidity. Just INTJ narrowness.

Someone like him--and not all INTJs are this narrow--should never marry a dopamine person. Disaster.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Interesting - 2 of my exes are ENTP, with my high school sweet heart that I've dated for 2 years until he passed away(freshmen and sophomore year) we got along quite well and I have nothing negative to say about the relationship . If I was to be single and have never met my istp partner I think ENTP by description would attract me most do to the same Ne dominance and you know this already but I find that Ti help me improve myself better and compels me . On another note- I came across an INFP tread value marriage once and a lot of the INFPs there are happily married to intps so I guess in that sense this concept isn't too far off.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Interesting - 2 of my exes are ENTP, with my high school sweet heart that I've dated for 2 years until he passed away(freshmen and sophomore year) we got along quite well and I have nothing negative to say about the relationship . If I was to be single and have never met my istp partner I think ENTP by description would attract me most do to the same Ne dominance and you know this already but I find that Ti help me improve myself better and compels me . On another note- I came across an INFP tread value marriage once and a lot of the INFPs there are happily married to intps so I guess in that sense this concept isn't too far off.


Interesting. And you settled for a judging-dom. You didn't jump all the way over to the serotonin end and pick up a INTJ or ISTJ. Btw, what do you think of INTJs? How would you compare them to INFJs as relationship material, both in general and in particular for ENFPs?


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## Grain of Sugar (Sep 17, 2013)

I can't see myself in any of these 4 types. Oh yeah.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> Yes, the ENFP-INTJ pair is a popular one. I only question its long-term viability. INTJs are one-trick ponies who won't go places that don't interest them. ENFPs are wild horses that want to run free wherever the trails may lead. This is a formula for growing apart, if ever I saw one.
> 
> As the research shows, opposites attract, but likes bond.
> 
> I didn't spell it out in my posts, but you can place the types along a spectrum with dopamine at one end and serotonin the other. The judging-doms who have both neurotransmitters in more equal measures will lie in between. An ENFP who wanted a partner who is less excitable than she is but didn't want someone at the other end of this spectrum who is as staid as an INTJ could take one step towards the middle and choose from the judging-doms, like an INFP, who is not as afflicted with wanderlust as she is but is still more adventuresome than INTJ. Likewise, an INTJ who wanted someone more reliable than an ENFP could take one step to the middle and choose someone like an INFP or INTP who have adventurousness and stability in better balance. So the theory can be used to make choices outside of those recommendations I listed.


I don't view an INTJ as a one trick pony. I wouldn't view any one that way. The INTJs I dated yes would never think about doing some of the adventures we went on but in the end they went and enjoyed themselves. I'm friends with both of them today (they have expressed and reminisced with me why the relationship did not work out) my adventurous side was not one of those reasons. In fact it was one of the reason why they loved me. That somehow I was able to pull them out of their shell with love and happiness with out being abrasive. In fact your stereo-typical response on what you think an ENFP is all wrong. Most ENFP that I have talked to and chatted with have expressed we bond deeply with the people we fall in love. In fact this bond might be so deep that it prevents us from leaving an abusive relationship. Yes I love to travel and I love adventure. A love for traveling does not = cheating or infidelity. The only relationship I've had that was short lived was the one with the ENTP. It sizzled as fast it was sparked. Most of my relationships can be 1+ years two of them have been 5+ years. Tell me again how you know what I'm like? I'm also not fooling myself. I'm sorry if you have no clue what you're talking about with the ENFP. My longest relationship has been with my best friend we met when I was 11. She's an ISFJ. I have a thing for Is, they calm me and give me a since of stability. I've also never cheated on anyone I've dated or even thought about straying. It takes me months to get over a relationship even the short lived one with the ENTP because of this bond. I do move on and try again with optimistic zeal it just takes a couple of months of self reflection to get back in the ring again. 

http://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-priebe/2014/11/7-things-you-should-know-before-you-date-an-enfp/

I also will not date someone due to their MBTI letters. Even though I can become attracted to the INTJ/INFJ types very quickly. Your sounding like a typist. Someone who thinks they know how another human being would react due to their MBTI.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

NIHM said:


> I don't view an INTJ as a one trick pony. I wouldn't view any one that way. The INTJs I dated yes would never think about doing some of the adventures we went on but in the end they went and enjoyed themselves. I'm friends with both of them today (they have expressed and reminisced with me why the relationship did not work out) my adventurous side was not one of those reasons. In fact it was one of the reason why they loved me. That somehow I was able to pull them out of their shell with love and happiness with out being abrasive. In fact your stereo-typical response on what you think an ENFP is all wrong. Most ENFP that I have talked to and chatted with have expressed we bond deeply with the people we fall in love. In fact this bond might be so deep that it prevents us from leaving an abusive relationship. Yes I love to travel and I love adventure. A love for traveling does not = cheating or infidelity. The only relationship I've had that was short lived was the one with the ENTP. It sizzled as fast it was sparked.* Most of my relationships can be 1+ years two of them have been 5+ years.* Tell me again how you know what I'm like? I'm also not fooling myself. I'm sorry if you have no clue what you're talking about with the ENFP. My longest relationship has been with my best friend we met when I was 11. She's an ISFJ. I have a thing for Is, they calm me and give me a since of stability. I've also never cheated on anyone I've dated or even thought about straying. It takes me months to get over a relationship even the short lived one with the ENTP because of this bond. I do move on and try again with optimistic zeal it just takes a couple of months of self reflection to get back in the ring again.
> 
> 7 Things You Should Know Before You Date An ENFP | Thought Catalog
> 
> I also will not date someone due to their MBTI letters. Even though I can become attracted to the INTJ/INFJ types very quickly. Your sounding like a typist. Someone who thinks they know how another human being would react due to their MBTI.


The highlighted part is not atypical for a dopamine type. And you're not married, you haven't made a commitment "for life". That commitment is the point. Whether you make it. And how long you keep it.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> It doesn't sound like you've married yet. If and when you do, come back and we'll talk.


LMAO how wrong you are. My marriage lasted 5 years and did not end because of things you could normally think of. Again stop being a typist. It was also to an INTJ


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

NIHM said:


> LMAO how wrong you are. My marriage lasted 5 years and did not end because of things you could normally think of. Again stop being a typist. It was also to an INTJ


If you withhold information I can't be blamed, can I?

And your marriage to an INTJ lasted five years. That demonstrates the point, then, doesn't it?


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> Interesting. And you settled for a judging-dom. You didn't jump all the way over to the serotonin end and pick up a INTJ or ISTJ. Btw, what do you think of INTJs? How would you compare them to INFJs as relationship material, both in general and in particular for ENFPs?


I know my istp is a judging dom but he's spontaneous and action oriented and somewhat rebellious so that part keeps me exited at the same time he's calm, rational and realistic which I find comforting so it's a good balance for me .
I don't really think much about Intj, they don't really amuse me but I have nothing against them either - just I can't see myself being attracted to one. However I do know that there are a massive amount of Enfps who are infatuated with Intjs . With Intj I see it more as idealization - the idea of an enfp amuses them or vice versa but long term either the Intj will get frustrated or the enfp would get bored or vice versa . In comparison with Infj - I would prefer Infj over Intjs if their Fe isn't strong . I think Infj would do better with enfp since Infj are stereotype as the most outgoing extrovert and Ne dom as most introverted extroverts (and I know of a confirmed Infj irl who's much more outgoing than I am).


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> If you withhold information I can't be blamed, can I?
> 
> And your marriage to an INTJ lasted five years. That demonstrates the point, then, doesn't it?


It demonstrates nothing. What broke up my marriage is none of your business and I do not care to even tell you. That being said you're extremely misguided in your approach.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

NIHM said:


> It demonstrates nothing. What broke up my marriage is none of your business and I do not care to even tell you. That being said you're extremely misguided in your approach.


Come back after your third marriage and we'll talk.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> Come back after your third marriage and we'll talk.


Troll keep trolling  

I think I've hit a nerve because you couldn't prove your point that ENFPs can't have long term relationships now you're resulting to insults. Good luck, you'll need it. I suggest gaining people's trust if you want them to divulge important information about themselves before insulting them and actually learning about their experiences to base a judgement on.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

I don't identify with melancholic at all.

I would say I'm Choleric > Phlegmatic > Sanguine > Melancholic.

I find myself very attracted to Choleric people, and I like Melancholic people a lot. But I think I would kill myself if I had to live with a Melancholic person.

As for phlegmatic people... as friends I find them really annoying most of the time. I don't know how I could even stand being with someone like that long-term (I mean a dominant phlegmatic). I feel inadequate in communicating with them--as though I can't wrap my words up in a pretty enough box to suit them. And their attempts to win me over just make me annoyed at them. Because they don't know how to win me over properly. They suck at it. 

I think I would probably prefer to be with a copy of myself. Choleric > Phlegmatic.

edit:

their stupid test said I was dominant choleric and



SANGUINEPHLEGMATICCHOLERICMELANCHOLIC0350


To be fair it was a pretty basic test.


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

I support this theory. For me it´s really hard to find someone attractive. BUT. The few INTPs I´ve ever met in my life resulted to be extremely attractive to me. 
I am currently in a relationship with an INTP, he says that all his exes were his opposite type, and never felt attracted to them as much as he feels to me.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

ae1905 said:


> An example. My INTJ friend. Likes history and current events. Loves to talk about these things. Can be insightful but will go on and on and can be the biggest boor. Dislikes music, movies, literature, sports, doesn't travel. Can't talk to him about any of these thngs. Oh, and he doesn't have a sense of humor, though he likes to laugh at other people's expense.
> 
> And he's a smart guy. PhD. So it's not stupidity. Just INTJ narrowness.
> 
> Someone like him--and not all INTJs are this narrow--should never marry a dopamine person. Disaster.


There are INTJs who like to absorb information like a sponge; dedicating themselves not only to optimizing the solutions to a problem or situation, but to optimizing *themselves*.
Such an INTJ might get along with an ENFP, if they could each move in 20%-30 from the extreme.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

ae1905 said:


> Come back after your third marriage and we'll talk.





NIHM said:


> Troll keep trolling
> 
> I think I've hit a nerve because you couldn't prove your point that ENFPs can't have long term relationships now you're resulting to insults. Good luck, you'll need it. I suggest gaining people's trust if you want them to divulge important information about themselves before insulting them and actually learning about their experiences to base a judgement on.


Good gravy. Just get a room, you two. :shocked: :laughing: 
/counter-troll> /thread-hijack>


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

ae1905 said:


> Come back after your third marriage and we'll talk.





ae1905 said:


> An example. My INTJ friend. Likes history and current events. Loves to talk about these things. Can be insightful but will go on and on and can be the biggest boor. Dislikes music, movies, literature, sports, doesn't travel. Can't talk to him about any of these thngs. Oh, and he doesn't have a sense of humor, though he likes to laugh at other people's expense.
> 
> And he's a smart guy. PhD. So it's not stupidity. Just INTJ narrowness.
> 
> Someone like him--and not all INTJs are this narrow--should never marry a dopamine person. Disaster.


There's these little things called "life experience" and "maturity" and "levels of health" which enter into it too.
But if you start including *all* the confounding variables, the model becomes unwieldy.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

g_w said:


> There are INTJs who like to absorb information like a sponge; dedicating themselves not only to optimizing the solutions to a problem or situation, but to optimizing *themselves*.
> Such an INTJ might get along with an ENFP, if they could each move in 20%-30 from the extreme.


So what you're saying is there are INTJs who are not so INTJ, _and_, on top of that, if they can move away from their extreme then they might click with ENFPs. Sure. Look, I put this together out of curiosity and posted it here for comments. But I don't care what people do with it. Why should I? I don't know these people! And, tbh, my curiosity says, "go ahead and follow your hearts". After all, it's no skin off my back, is it?! _And_, it's a data point, too, right?! So do whatever you want. I only ask that you come back and tell us how it worked out cuz I wanna know about it. That's all I care about here. Knowing what works.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

@_NIHM_ I agree with you that your marriage ended for reasons having nothing to do with your ex's type. And I strongly encouarage you to find another INTJ and marry him. In fact, I encourage all ENFPs here and elsewhere to do the same. I want to see what happens. Honestly. Now I'm really curious. So, please, follow your hearts' desires. Do it for science if not for yourselves. Best of luck.


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## NIHM (Mar 24, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> @NIHM I agree with you that your marriage ended for reasons not associated with your ex's type. And I strongly encouarage you to find an INTJ ASAP and marry him. In fact, I encourage all ENFPs here and elsewhere to do the same. I want to see what happens. Honestly. Now I'm really curious. So, please, follow your hearts' desires. Do it for science if not for yourselves. Best of luck.


Do you honestly think I care what the four letters are that defines someone? Or that I would rush into marriage just to be married to prove some mad man that he's right or wrong? You're sick. You have no clue why my marriage ended and your theory is flawed.

I dropped it earlier what is the point to you keep harassing me?


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

NIHM said:


> Do you honestly think I care what the four letters are that defines someone? Or that I would rush into marriage just to be married to prove some mad man that he's right or wrong? You're sick. You have no clue why my marriage ended and your theory is flawed.
> 
> I dropped it earlier what is the point to you keep harassing me?


Just remember to come back and tell us how it worked out. Thanks.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Booyou said:


> I support this theory. For me it´s really hard to find someone attractive. BUT. The few INTPs I´ve ever met in my life resulted to be extremely attractive to me.
> I am currently in a relationship with an INTP, he says that all his exes were his opposite type, and never felt attracted to them as much as he feels to me.


Congrats! I'm glad to hear it's worked out for you. One thing that's been brought up about INFP-INTP is emotions and how INTP handles INFP's need for emotional connection and understanding. What is your experience of this with your INTP? And how do you handle his logical and critical faculties? Does that frustrate you?


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> Congrats! I'm glad to hear it's worked out for you. One thing that's been brought up about INFP-INTP is emotions and how INTP handle INFP's need for emotional connection and understanding. What is your experience of this with your INTP?


Hahahh, thanks.
It is never a really big deal, but I guess is the only reason we may have tiny fights sometimes it is mostly my fault because my emotions are somewhat unstable and I try not to be understood. But it won't be alarming unless we don't have time to talk about it and resolve it. The problem is when he is busy and we cannot communicate. I kind of go crazy when it happens because I feel as I can't touch the ground without him.

Whenever I'm feeling a bit over-emotional he would psychoanalyze me to localize the source of over-thinking, over-feeling, overreaction and trying to understand why does it happens, why I behave/feel like that and what I am thinking. He is so good at reading within me that always knows exactly what to do.

So he basically uses his logical reasoning to understand my emotions. It is balanced because he likes to analyze stuff and I like to be understood and studied.

He is also always telling me that I am the only person he feels empathy towards. 
I guess this has to do a lot with personal life experiences too. He probably sees in me the artist that his mother didn't allow his father to be. 
And as soon as he knew I was an artist he felt the unconditional need to protect me from people who want to see me failing at what I love.
So of course there's more just than personality. 
There's what happens in life, what drives you close to the other person and more important> The type of parents and relatives. 

Anyway I do believe that INFPxINTP are really good potential partners. More than the INFPxESTJ in duality that for some can work of course, but I guess is harder and troublesome.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Booyou said:


> Hahahh, thanks.
> It is never a really big deal, but I guess is the only reason we may have tiny fights sometimes it is mostly my fault because my emotions are somewhat unstable and I try not to be understood. But it won't be alarming unless we don't have time to talk about it and resolve it. The problem is when he is busy and we cannot communicate. I kind of go crazy when it happens because I feel as I can't touch the ground without him.
> 
> Whenever I'm feeling a bit over-emotional he would psychoanalyze me to localize the source of over-thinking, over-feeling, overreaction and trying to understand why does it happens, why I behave/feel like that and what I am thinking. He is so good at reading within me that always knows exactly what to do.
> ...


He sounds like he's very understanding. Do you enjoy listening to his ideas? Do you ever challenge or debate him? Or just listen? Does it ever become too much?

@_ai.tran.75_ Hey Ai, is this what your hubby does, too, use his logic to understand your feelings? Does he also analyze your feelings to help you understand them?


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> He sounds like he's very understanding. Do you enjoy listening to his ideas? Do you ever challenge or debate him? Or just listen?
> 
> @_ai.tran.75_ Hey Ai, is this what your hubby does, too, use his logic to understand your feelings? Does he also analyze your feelings to help you understand them?


Haha for me it's the other way around I use my emotional knowledge to help him understand his - his logic is usually use to aid my irrational decisions . If we ever bicker it's usually Ne vs Se ( which is also rare ) most of the drama in our life are from outside sources . But if I were to have problems with a family member or his family member his logic help me see things rationally , I think in our relationship since I understand him better than he understands me (he told me that I understand him more than anyone he knows) it's usually my Fi that help him understand his inferior FE .


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> He sounds like he's very understanding. Do you enjoy listening to his ideas? Do you ever challenge or debate him? Or just listen? Does it ever become too much?
> 
> @_ai.tran.75_ Hey Ai, is this what your hubby does, too, use his logic to understand your feelings? Does he also analyze your feelings to help you understand them?


He is teaching me how to debate because it always was one of my weaknesses, and I am really enjoying it. Our debates last longer as I get better at it. I am kind of stubborn and it helps me to resist longer. Even though I sometimes get a bit frustrated because I can never win. But then he says I did good and it makes me happy. (When I am clearly winning he would come up with the most absurd theory to confuse me, it's irritating, I get mad when it happens but he apparently enjoys making me angry.)

Oh we both have a lot of ideas and we are also extremely creative, we are always making up projects and stuff.
I also let him participate in the making of my artworks and stories and he usually comes up with some quite brilliant ideas and it makes my work lighter and easier to me.
I sometimes can get a bit bored when he spends too much time talking about history, but that is my ADHD's fault.


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

ai.tran.75 said:


> Haha for me it's the other way around I use my emotional knowledge to help him understand his - his logic is usually use to aid my irrational decisions . If we ever bicker it's usually Ne vs Se ( which is also rare ) most of the drama in our life are from outside sources . But if I were to have problems with a family member or his family member his logic help me see things rationally , I think in our relationship since I understand him better than he understands me (he told me that I understand him more than anyone he knows) it's usually my Fi that help him understand his inferior FE .


This is interesting, ISTPs and INTPs are fairly similar, as ENFPs and INFPs are. Maybe this different approach between emotion and logic is due to our introversion and extraversion? 
I don't know if this makes any sense.


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## ai.tran.75 (Feb 26, 2014)

Booyou said:


> This is interesting, ISTPs and INTPs are fairly similar, as ENFPs and INFPs are. Maybe this different approach between emotion and logic is due to our introversion and extraversion?
> I don't know if this makes any sense.


It could also be that (I'm only guessing ) that you have inferior Te so his Ti help analyzes it rather than the Fi that's throwing you off (since Fi is your dom function ) on social term then I think I'm equally introverted to my istp it's just I'm Ne dom , my Fi (which usually work towards my benefit rather than against ) is quite strong . Since si is my inferior function - my partner help remind me when to eat - not to bicker over something repetitively under stress or he remembers where I misplace my keys - I highly doubt it's introversion vs extroversion , but I guess since I'm Ne I feel less ?


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Booyou said:


> When I am clearly winning he would come up with the most absurd theory to confuse me, it's irritating, I get mad when it happens but he apparently enjoys making me angry.


LOL. You need to visit my "Secrets" thread and spill the beans on those crafty INTPs.


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## monemi (Jun 24, 2013)

Oh Christ, more slotting people by N/S dichotomy.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

monemi said:


> Oh Christ, more slotting people by N/S dichotomy.


Disappointed you didn't get the INTP, ESTP? 

Join the club--there are 14 other types that feel the same way. But ESFP is not a bad consolation, is it? It'd be lots of fun!

Actually, there is no "slotting". I divided the types into three groups and concluded each type would be best matched to any type in its group. Since each group includes both Ns and Ss, N-S pairs emerge naturally out of the theory. I simply reduced these pairings to the single most suitable one by matching the auxiliary functions. But an ESTP could be paired with a ENFP or ENTP if she prefers. But INTP is still out of reach. Sorry.


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## Sparkling (Jul 12, 2013)

I see a lot of these pairings IRL:
xSFP - xNTP
xSTP - xNFP
xSFJ - xNTJ
xSTJ - xNFJ


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

blue_moon said:


> I see a lot of these pairings IRL:
> xSFP - xNTP
> xSTP - xNFP
> xSFJ - xNTJ
> xSTJ - xNFJ


These could fall into my groups if the X=E or I on both sides of the equation. And even if they don't, each pair is still one step away from the other on the dopamine-serotonin spectrum.

What do you think of the ideas? Is ISTP a match for you?


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Booyou said:


> Judging by how this converstaion is going between you two it seems that INTP isn't a real good match for ESTPs indeed. I support ESTPxESFP that's the usual SP couple to me. I've seen a lot of ESFPsxESTPs


yes, I believe you're right, but ESTP here has got INTP and she's got it _bad_...I'm just trying to get her to put down the sledgehammer and pick up my wonderful books...once she reads them, she'll see the truth in your wise words, INFP


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

monemi said:


> Prime example of inefficient INTP communication. Writing entire books for things an ESTP recovered from in under 2 seconds.


it's OK, ESTP--denial is just a stage in your recovery, you're gonna be alright...just take a deep breath, step back from that ledge, and follow the steps in my new book, _*INTP-holics Anonymous*_*: A Guide To Recovering From Your INTP Addiction*...buy it, read it, _live it_--but for god's sake, don't slam it on your hand, it's a fucking tome and you could _kill _yourself, and then where I would be with all the trolls on Facebook and the damned lawsuits! THINK OF _ME_, ESTP, NOT YOUR GODDAMN ADDICTION!--_WHO ARE WE TRYING TO HELP HERE?!!_


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

monemi said:


> No, it's not. It's really not. Here's a clue, you're not as good at typing as you think you are.
> 
> 
> 
> Prime example of inefficient INTP communication. Writing entire books for things an ESTP recovered from in under 2 seconds.


wth? I never said I was good at typing or anything like that.
Anyway, everything needs context, theories are theories, they could make sense but reality is a different thing, nothing personal. If you don't like ESFPs doesn't mean that any other ESTPs can't like ESFPs either. Or that any ESTPs can like INTPs, very type is ''matchable'' with any other type actually. 

All that I was saying is that in MY personal experience I've seen ESTP and ESFPs go along quite well.

I am not happy when they say ''OMGGG INFPxESTJ looovvvv forever ijurehgiuerhgeruig'' because I personally dislike ESTJs for a relationship, it doesn't mean that any other INFP has got to dislike them too.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

↑ Here's a hint for you: You're not an INFP. 

Anyway, I've dated an ESTP chick before and it was fun but not a stable relationship in any way. I think intelligent ESTPs are definitely a catch though but I much prefer introverted and shy types.

So I disagree with the pairing and the basis for the theory is shaky.


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

MNiS said:


> ↑ Here's a hint for you: You're not an INFP.
> 
> Anyway, I've dated an ESTP chick before and it was fun but not a stable relationship in any way. I think intelligent ESTPs are definitely a catch though but I much prefer introverted and shy types.
> 
> So I disagree with the pairing and the basis for the theory is shaky.


Okay, what am I if I am not an INFP. Type me if you can


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> yes, I believe you're right, but ESTP here has got INTP and she's got it _bad_...I'm just trying to get her to put down the sledgehammer and pick up my wonderful books...once she reads them, she'll see the truth in your wise words, INFP


I know, you've got the power to show her the right path


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Booyou said:


> Okay, what am I if I am not an INFP. Type me if you can


Fill out a questionnaire and I'll be happy to.


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

MNiS said:


> Fill out a questionnaire and I'll be happy to.


http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/399258-infp-infp-enfp.html

Here


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Booyou said:


> http://personalitycafe.com/whats-my-personality-type/399258-infp-infp-enfp.html
> 
> Here


Oh boy...

Si dominant and a feeler with Fe. You're such an obvious SEI my brain hurts.


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

MNiS said:


> Oh boy...
> 
> Si dominant and a feeler with Fe. You're such an obvious SEI my brain hurts.



Si dominant? Fe? no way. nobody ever said I am a SEI. 

I could accept IEI, IEE but not SEI.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Booyou said:


> Si dominant? Fe? no way. nobody ever said I am a SEI.
> 
> I could accept IEI, IEE but not SEI.


Color me not surprised. Anyway, your type is painfully obvious to anyone even moderately perceptive.


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

MNiS said:


> Color me not surprised. Anyway, your type is painfully obvious to anyone even moderately perceptive.


I fear you are not as perceptive as you claim yourself to be.
Entropic typed me as IEI some months ago. 
And INFP lifetime members on Typology Central never doubted my type.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

Booyou said:


> I know, you've got the power to show her the right path


don't know about power, but I sure as hell have the books...yep, I'm all about the books $$$


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

MNiS said:


> ↑ Here's a hint for you: You're not an INFP.
> 
> Anyway, I've dated an ESTP chick before and it was fun but not a stable relationship in any way. I think intelligent ESTPs are definitely a catch though but I much prefer introverted and shy types.
> 
> So I disagree with the pairing and the basis for the theory is shaky.


yeah, but if you're just gonna break up with the shy chick then why not pick the funny chicks, one after another?...life is about having fun, right?...you're not commit to one girl your whole life, are you?!...seriously?...SERIOUSLY?


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Booyou said:


> I fear you are not as perceptive as you claim yourself to be.
> Entropic typed me as IEI some months ago.
> And INFP lifetime members on Typology Central never doubted my type.


Still SEI. Anyway, you asked me what I thought your type is and I did: SEI.


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

ae1905 said:


> don't know about power, but I sure as hell have the books...yep, I'm all about the books $$$


Well I guess you'll make a good investment writing a book about how to detect Si-doms as well then.


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## Booyou (Oct 5, 2014)

MNiS said:


> Still SEI. Anyway, you asked me what I thought your type is and I did: SEI.


Well. Thank you, but I still think I am 1000 light years from being anything close to an S or a J.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

ae1905 said:


> yeah, but if you're just gonna break up with the shy chick then why not pick the funny chicks, one after another?...life is about having fun, right?...you're not commit to one girl your whole life, are you?!...seriously?...SERIOUSLY?


That's pretty presumptuous of you and it's definitely not your place to try to tell me who I can and can't see. Don't try to force your standards on to others. It reeks of snide arrogance.

Besides, no. I don't like having strings of relationships which again, is pretty damn presumptuous of you to assume that I would.


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## MNiS (Jan 30, 2010)

Booyou said:


> Well. Thank you, but I still think I am 1000 light years from being anything close to an S or a J.


Sure thing. (Even though you're clearly incorrect)

Anyway, this conversation is over.


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## ae1905 (Jun 7, 2014)

MNiS said:


> That's pretty presumptuous of you and it's definitely not your place to try to tell me who I can and can't see. Don't try to force your standards on to others. It reeks of snide arrogance.
> 
> Besides, no. I don't like having strings of relationships which again, is pretty damn presumptuous of you to assume that I would.


with that sense of humor, you're gonna do real well with the ladies, ESFP....sad


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