# Dangers Of Using Our Weakest Function



## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

This thread is a proposed hypothesis on distinguishing between weak function and the weakest function, and the danger that each type may encounter when using the weakest function. MBTI enthusiasts believe we use four functions, considering our 4th function as our weakest. However Beebe and Berens/Nardi believe we use all eight functions to some extent, depending on the circumstances. 

As pointed out in the thread located *here*, the dominant and fourth functions are not true opposites. They are antagonistic since two perceiving functions or two judging functions will oppose one another including Fi-Fe, Ti-Te, Si-Se and Ni-Ne. Jung’s prize pupil Marie-Louise von Franz, was quoted as saying that Fi opposes Te, but is completely antagonistic to Fe. On the other hand Ti although will suppress Fe, they can and do work in together. Going back to the thread on functions working in tandem located *here*, the Ti-Fe can be used this way:


> We might draw on a nugget of reasoning or theoretical framework to make adjustments for the welfare of others or the good of the group. Applying principles of human behavior and applying leverage at key points can help us to manage divergent values, feelings, and opinions. We might nurture relationships with a network of respected peers while clarifying a framework, or disclose personal data to gain clarity and precision for a topic. Or we might feel passionate about the value of people everywhere learning to use a particular framework as a problem-solving tool to improve human relationships. We communicate this framework to others as a helpful gift.


As Naomi Quenck presents in her theory, the use of attempting to handle matters calling for the use of our 4th function creates “grip” episodes. Generally we are quite aware of those circumstances that may result in such episodes since not only are they foreign to our basic natural function (T vs F, S vs N) but our less preferred attitude (E vs I). So we may easily avoid putting ourselves in such situations. Se dominant types may choose not to get into purely theoretical discussions, Ti dominant types will avoid functions calling for Fe such as funerals, weddings, etc. 

But what if we are unable to see the circumstance clearly because it is masked? I have a strong preference for introversion so I am comfortable using my Ti and Ni. I do not fear my Si since I can have wholesome nostalgic thoughts of my past. But there is a inherent danger when using my Fi that I may be little aware of since it is also introverted. The 8th function is similar to our dominant function and in every way, but the most antagonistic to my dominant function. Jung was specific when defining each cognitive function that it must suppress it’s opposing function. What Jung does not specify is the energy direction of that function being suppressed. As stated above our 4th function is compensatory and the only function that can bring equilibrium to the dominant function. I believe the function he is proposing we suppress is the 8th function as you will see below:

*Te (used by ETJs) – Helps us organize our environment and ideas through charts, tables, graphs, flow charts, outlines, and so on. When circumstances call for the use of it’s 4th function (Fi), ETJs may be able to determine what is important to them personally. However since ETJs naturally use the extraversion attitude they are susceptible to unconsciously using their 8th function Fe. When this occurs the ETJ types may begin over accommodating others needs and feel put upon. Myers-Briggs says this type uses their Te to run as much of the world as may be theirs to run. However as a result of allowing Fe to masquerade as Te, ETJs may determine later how much their well run organizations have fell into disrepair due to allowing what others think of them to affect their decisions.

Fe (used by EFJs) – Considers others and responds to them. When circumstances call for the use of it’s 4th function (Ti), EFJs will become less locked in to the personal connections and step back to analyze and classify problems as problems. However since EFJs naturally use the extraversion attitude they are susceptible to using subjective idiosyncratic logic which may result in attacking another’s values with ad hominem slights. We may not find a better mediator than the ESJ types since they take everyone’s opinions into consideration. That is why when the extraversion they are accustom to is later determined to have been the use of Te, they may find relationships they cherished irreconcilably torn apart.

Se (used by ESPs) – Experiencing and noticing the physical world, scanning for visible reactions and relevant data. When circumstances call for the use of it’s 4th function (Ni), ESPs may develop a sense of optimism that the future will be positive. However since ESPs naturally use the extraversion attitude they are susceptible to unconsciously using their 8th function Ne. When this occurs the ESP types may over-read between the lines and begin misinterpreting the meaning of someone’s actions. These types are called the “Ultimate Realists. Being unable to distinguish realism from subjective miscues can lead to mistrust by those who have always considered them the go to guy or gal.

Ne (used by ENPs) – Inferring relationships, noticing threads of meaning, and scanning for what could be. When circumstances call for the use of it’s 4th function (Si), ENPs may develop a sense of nostalgia for how things were before, usually with romantic notions. However since ENPs naturally use the extraversion attitude they are susceptible to unconsciously using their 8th function Se. When this occurs the ENP types may get caught up in a binge of being in the moment, causing for excessive seeking of stimulation. It has said that Ne types can either be on top of the world or lose their shirts. One must wonder whether excessive binges of some sort may have been a leading factor.

Ti (used by ITPs) - Analyzing, categorizing, and figuring out how something works. When circumstances call for the use of it’s 4th function (Fe), ITPs may be able to determine what is important to others.However since ITPs naturally use the introversion attitude they are susceptible to unconsciously using their 8th function Fi. When this occurs the ITP types may spend too much money or waste time on things that are their undoing. What can I say, been there, done that. ITPs may die in poverty or never accomplish anything if they mistake a use of Fi as using Ti. 

Fi (used by IFPs) - Evaluating importance and maintaining congruence. When circumstances call for the use of it’s 4th function (Te), IFPs may conform their thinking to what is observed as measurable fact and lay out reasonable explanations for decisions and conclusion made. However since IFPs naturally use the introversion attitude they are susceptible to unconsciously using their 8th function Ti. When this occurs the IFP types may become caught up pointing out others inconsistencies and will miss fine distinctions between principles and dogmatically adhering to one they adopt whole. The opposite of love is not hate. The opposite of love is indifference. And once someone has become indifference toward another person, they will not piss on them if they saw they were on fire. IFPs should be careful of mistaking their natural affinity for introversion as a use of Ti, especially when they find their need to use Te for excessive periods. 

Si (used by ISJs) - Recalling past experiences, remembering detailed data and what it is linked to. When circumstances call for the use of it’s 4th function (Ne), ISJs may become more patient with brainstorming and learn to trust what emerges rather than having it all figured out in advance. However since ISJs naturally use the introversion attitude they are susceptible to unconsciously using their 8th function Ni. When this occurs the ISJ types may make dire predictions with detailed certainty or mistake some deep symbolism as a guidepost for life. I can’t come up with a better example than the economic crisis going on in the US currently or the unnerving catastrophic predicaments being made if the budget is not balanced. This may be the result of Si being replaced with Ni. 

Ni (used by INJs) - Foreseeing implications, conceptualizing, and having images of the future or profound meaning. When circumstances call for the use of it’s 4th function (Se), INJs may start paying more attention to the physical world and their physical selves, looking for the mind and body to become one. However since INJs naturally use the introversion attitude they are susceptible to unconsciously using their 8th function Si. When this occurs the INJ types may waste time reviewing the impact of the past. What we witness here in the INJ types may be an unraveling of their impenetrable trust in their own intuition, resulting in paralysis analysis in being afraid to move forward. *

For clarity, we may never develop our 4th function and have a good use of our 8th, or at least be conscious for a need to consult someone when circumstances call for use of the weakest function. This again is a proposal that although circumstances calling for the use of our 4th function may cause us stress, attempting to resolve matters using our 8th function may have dire.


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## bobdaduck (Apr 24, 2010)

This is certainly in sync with some of my personal theories.

I think the problem is that even though one could be comfortable using their 8th function, the danger is that they have no experience in synchronizing it with their normal functions, leading them to come up with a lot of information that they have no use for. INFJ, for example, having 8th function Si, would as you stated dwell endlessly on the past... And never use any of it. I have noticed this personally... If an event of emotional significance occurs I'll pore over it endlessly, thinking of everything I should have said. Then I will promptly forget all of it.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

Theoretically do you suppose this also happen to our non-dominant functions? Especially the tertiary as it's also of the dominant attitude? I'm quite certain I'm not an Si-dom but I do relate to the negative use of Ni.

I certainly never understood why anyone would say it is dangerous to use our fourth function. In my opinion it is very desirable to develop it, since as you say it provides necessary balance.


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## Functianalyst (Jul 23, 2009)

bobdaduck said:


> This is certainly in sync with some of my personal theories.
> I think the problem is that even though one could be comfortable using their 8th function, the danger is that they have no experience in synchronizing it with their normal functions, leading them to come up with a lot of information that they have no use for. INFJ, for example, having 8th function Si, would as you stated dwell endlessly on the past... And never use any of it. I have noticed this personally... If an event of emotional significance occurs I'll pore over it endlessly, thinking of everything I should have said. Then I will promptly forget all of it.


Good word (synchronization). Again just my thoughts and hypothesis, but I would see the Ni and Si dominant types believing that when they focus or perceive one thing at a time where there is a sequence of events to consider (beginning, middle and end), they are naturally using their respective dominant functions. However if the Ni dominant type realizes their focus is on logistics, the user can then realize they’re using the Si function. In reverse if a Si dominant who is asking what steps to take next, realizes they’re focus has been on a vision of the future, they may appreciate their cognitive process has been coming from a use of Ni.


nevermore said:


> Theoretically do you suppose this also happen to our non-dominant functions? Especially the tertiary as it's also of the dominant attitude? I'm quite certain I'm not an Si-dom but I do relate to the negative use of Ni.
> I certainly never understood why anyone would say it is dangerous to use our fourth function. In my opinion it is very desirable to develop it, since as you say it provides necessary balance.


I have been in and out of a discussion on the tertiary over the weekend. I really don’t think the tertiary comes into play that often in this manner. The auxiliary function works in two ways; to do the bidding of the dominant function (Ti-Ne) and to work as the tertiary functions compensatory (Ne-Si). You pretty much know when you’re using your tertiary function which may override your auxiliary during low energy periods or when you find you’re introverting more than normal. In that case the Ne takes a break and you go into what Simulated World refers to as the dom-tert loop. But once you allow your Ne to begin working again, the Si is suppressed. When noticing your Ni in use, what are the circumstances? Are you finding yourself being of higher energy and much more aggressive?


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## ItsAlwaysSunny (Dec 17, 2010)

I must admit, at first I didn't understand some of what the post was talking about, but then when I got to the part about IFPs it really hit home. Especially the part about the opposite of love being indifference. Anyways, thanks for the post.


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## nevermore (Oct 1, 2010)

Functianalyst said:


> Good word (synchronization). Again just my thoughts and hypothesis, but I would see the Ni and Si dominant types believing that when they focus or perceive one thing at a time where there is a sequence of events to consider (beginning, middle and end), they are naturally using their respective dominant functions. However if the Ni dominant type realizes their focus is on logistics, the user can then realize they’re using the Si function. In reverse if a Si dominant who is asking what steps to take next, realizes they’re focus has been on a vision of the future, they may appreciate their cognitive process has been coming from a use of Ni.I have been in and out of a discussion on the tertiary over the weekend. I really don’t think the tertiary comes into play that often in this manner. The auxiliary function works in two ways; to do the bidding of the dominant function (Ti-Ne) and to work as the tertiary functions compensatory (Ne-Si). You pretty much know when you’re using your tertiary function which may override your auxiliary during low energy periods or when you find you’re introverting more than normal. In that case the Ne takes a break and you go into what Simulated World refers to as the dom-tert loop. But once you allow your Ne to begin working again, the Si is suppressed. When noticing your Ni in use, what are the circumstances? Are you finding yourself being of higher energy and much more aggressive?


Not really, I get doom and gloom, make wild intuitive leaps that make no sense (usually pessimistic ones) and have a sense that the world is conspiring against me. It certainly is not a function that energizes me. I don't even use it that often (though I find some Ni-topics fascinating like changing perceptions and worldviews/interpretations of symbols and phenomena that have evolved over the ages, it's probably my central intellectual interest but I think I use a combination of other functions to do that).

I think I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say. I don't feel the temptation to use Ni over Ne, if that's what you meant (I wish because it wounds like a cool function); I seldom use Ni but it is very noticeable when I do.

I don't find Si energizes me though when Ne is tired though; Ti alone seems do that. I actually find Si really draining if I use too much of it (keeping track of details makes me want to tear my hair out). I find I use Si as a guide for putting my Fe into action.


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

bullshit

this what you call 8th Fi, is Ti abstracting from Fe, not Fi -> tension between opposites(dom/inferior). its the dominant trying to control inferior, keeping it in its grip, because it goes against the ego and dominant function in the ego is the 1st function, so its fighting against the inferior from the shadow the most.
-> there is just 4 functions for each type, they working together creates illusion of 8 functions.

also we can develop our 4th function, i know i have. it was exactly this tension between opposites(i thought it was Fi at the time, as i was foolish enough to believe in 8 function theory). but after long time of going through this shit i suddenly realized that i was trying to make sense of Fe with Ti and it had nothing to do with Fi. so i knew i had to let go of this Ti analyzing everything that comes from Fe, then i became more aware of my Fe, gained control over it, got over the grip and was able to develop it properly. maybe like year later i read more jung and learned about abstraction and went like lol, i figured out this all by myself.

in this process i also learned to use my Si better. which jung says to happen from this tension between opposites.

or well technically its not developing the inferior, its just becoming aware of it, learning to control it and taking it into consideration more than you previously have as you gained more conscious control over it.

and this sort of tension between opposites happens all the time, but the tension has to be really strong for you to dwell in it enough to figure shit out. for me it took like a year or so..


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Naama said:


> Bullshit


Was that your idea of this:



Naama said:


> also we can develop our 4th function, i know i have.


And this happens to be an example of my Fi critical parent.


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

Unicorntopia said:


> Was that your idea of this:
> 
> 
> 
> And this happens to be an example of my Fi critical parent.


why do you believe in 8 function theory?


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Naama said:


> why do you believe in 8 function theory?


I think we not only have the eight functions but I also think we synthesize them. I however do not think the synthesized versions are comprehensive. When we have good use of a couple of functions we can sythesize others other than the top four an a healthy conscious way, but we also, when under stress and see no option through our conscious functions or synthesized functions, can also percieve and evaluate through our unconscious functions but it will be under a cloud of fear, anger, or bad attitude and therefore usually be destructive or regretted. 

The goal is to reach the transient function and that is to view and accept all opposites consciously. How could anyone ever be able to reach the goal without possible eight function consciousness?


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## MrShatter (Sep 28, 2010)

Brilliant! I notice you Ti dominants have a knack for this stuff. I would love to go as in-depth as you guys but I only read about it. I don't seem to spit it out as well. (Though, it's all in my head somewhere - I suppose.)


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## Naama (Dec 5, 2010)

Unicorntopia said:


> I think we not only have the eight functions but I also think we synthesize them. I however do not think the synthesized versions are comprehensive. When we have good use of a couple of functions we can sythesize others other than the top four an a healthy conscious way, but we also, when under stress and see no option through our conscious functions or synthesized functions, can also percieve and evaluate through our unconscious functions but it will be under a cloud of fear, anger, or bad attitude and therefore usually be destructive or regretted.
> 
> The goal is to reach the transient function and that is to view and accept all opposites consciously. How could anyone ever be able to reach the goal without possible eight function consciousness?


do you mean transcendent function? if so this is what it is:



journal of analytical psychology - 'the third in the shadow of the fourth' said:


> The transcendent function is a natural psychic process of going back and forth between opposites to create a third out of the opposing two


opposites in this case are the dom and inferior function.

its not the goal, its just one step in the individuation process, and individuation is the ultimate goal.

but why do you think we need all 4 functions in both attitudes to achieve individuation? and why do you believe that for example Fi in INTP is real Fi and not just Ti abstracting from Fe and this sort of usage of Ti Fe isnt just looking like Fi?

i mean something like this for INTP









but ofc only this way when Ti is abstracting from Fe. naturally this would look like Fi as you are doing I judgment on F matters, but the sort of accepting some unconscious Fe (decision that became on conscious) would be handled by the conscious Ti. and Fe would be sort of guiding the decision that Ti makes, sort of giving it options to choose from.

i did this sort of thing for a long time and it looked very much like Fi, but i realized it was actually this sort of Fe -> Ti thing, that was creating an illusionary Fi.


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## Eric B (Jun 18, 2010)

The eight function-attitudes (as they are more properly called) are themselves synthesized from the four functions with two possible orientations. (Thanks for a new way of putting that!)
Again; certain combinations of functions with attitudes are more conscious than others. There is no reason to surmise that the unconscious ones are combinations of conscious ones.


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## Unicorntopia (Jun 18, 2010)

Naama said:


> do you mean transcendent function? if so this is what it is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh yeah, that's the word I was looking for. :wink:

I am not absolutely sure about any of this. Everyone is trying to communicate abstracts based on abstracts. It gets pretty confusing.

It is also interesting that we have no true opposite personaltiy type. The two options I have for an opposite would be ESTP and ESTJ. ESTP has opposite ordered functions and are percieving in the external world but have the same funtions as INFJ and are perciving dom. ESTJ has almost opposite ordered functions, opposite functions, and are judging dom but are extroverted judging in the external world like INFJ. Then it makes me ponder if ISTP is my opposite but the are introverted and use the same functions. Then I think ISTJ but they are introverted and are perciving dom. Etcetera.


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