# What do you think -- INFP, ISFP, or a highly unusual INTJ?



## apatheticus (Nov 15, 2011)

Hey folks,

So in narrowing down the field for best-fit types, I have come to realize that I identify most with, and am likely one of the following:

-An ISFP who thinks he's an N, and who is somehow confusing Se with Ne. 
-An INFP who has an inflated sense of Te, and who often tests as an INTJ.
-A very unusual INTJ who has strong Fi and thinks he's too FP-like to be anything but. 

My head is really muddled over all this, and so I'm hoping that the following information will help clear some of this up. Without further ado:


Enneagram

I am definitely a Type 9 Introvert, and the following attributes describe me perfectly:

*easy-going, non-confrontational
*adaptable, compromising
*unambitious -- lacking drive, motivation, inertia
*apathetic, indifferent, ambivalent
*low energy, needs more sleep than most people
*loses track of time
*difficulty setting own goals and sticking to them
*phlegmatic disposition (calm, even-tempered, not quick to anger)


Types 5, 6, and 1 seem to be the most common runners up.


4 Temperaments _(Catalyst, Stabilizer, Theorist, Improviser)_

Of these four, I identify most with Catalyst and Improviser -- and I seem to be a mixture thereof. If my assumptions are correct, that would probably rule out INTJ.


Interaction Styles _(Behind The Scenes, Chart The Course, In Charge, Get Things Going)_

Again, of the four listed, I most identify with Behind The Scenes and Chart The Course.

Initiating vs Responding --- definitely Responding
Directing vs. Informing ---- I'm comfortable using both, so it's a tossup. 


Cognitive Functions

I'm 99.9% sure that I prefer Fi-Te over Fe-Ti:

Te -- I'm more energized by and focused on bringing order and structure to my environment, rather than bringing order and structure to my thoughts and ideas. 

Fi -- I conceal my emotions, I often come across as cold, reserved, distant, and aloof, my value judgments are highly subjective, I value identity and authenticity, etc.

Also, I can't really feel and experience other people's emotional states 'in the moment' the way strong Fe-types can. Rather, I notice how other people's emotional states make ME feel, and then from that, I can either feel for them, rebel against their feelings, or not feel anything at all. 

As for Se-Ni vs Si-Ne, this one is a tossup. I can easily see myself preferring either-or, which is why I could use some outside clarification. 


Some Additional Information

*When it comes to doing work and assigned tasks, I am usually a highly-independent, overachieving, perfectionistic control freak who has to do things my way and put my own individual stamp on the end product. Because I have such high standards, I usually don't like working with others, and I'm prone to doing everything myself -- I simply don't trust the quality of their efforts. 

*I get bored VERY quickly if I'm not experiencing something different at any given time -- mindless repetition drains the shit out of me and sends me into a downward spiral of angst and restlessness. I don't mind repeating an activity, so long as there is something new or different to be gleaned from it each and every time. Once the novelty has worn out, then it's no longer of interest. 

*I love to explore my creativity and challenge myself by inventing new and original ways of doing things. For example: 

-experimenting with new recipes by trying out different and unusual food combinations
-reorganizing a room to test out new visual layouts and combinations of furniture/objects
-inventing new games, or trying out different ways of playing a game or a sport
-changing up and improving upon existing systems of organization to to make them more interesting and/or more efficient.

(This all sounds very Ne, but there is an element of physical, concrete experience to it which also makes it sound very much like Se. Again, any clarification on this would be of great help.)


I will leave it there for now -- I'm sure I'm leaving out a lot of key pieces of insight, but I'll probably end up expanding on them later on. 

In the meantime though, what are some of your first impressions?


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

How about INFP overdosing on Te? 

Eruption of inferior function of Te: http://personalitycafe.com/infp-articles/76770-recognizing-inferior-function-ifps.html

Ti is the shadow function (devilish function) of the INFP (and the ISFP also) inferior function Te?
Do you find that the description of Ti to be the function you least understand??

Ti - INTROVERTED THINKING 
Analyzing, categorizing, and evaluating according to principles.
Introverted Thinking often involves finding just the right word to clearly express an idea concisely, crisply, and to the point. Using introverted Thinking is like having an internal sense of the essential qualities of something, noticing the fine distinctions that make it what it is and then naming it. It also involves an internal reasoning process of deriving subcategories of classes and sub-principles of general principles. These can then be used in problem solving, analysis, and refining of a product or an idea. This process is evidenced in behaviors like taking things or ideas apart to figure out how they work. The analysis involves looking at different sides of an issue and seeing where there is inconsistency. In so doing, we search for a “leverage point” that will fix problems with the least amount of effort or damage to the system. We engage in this process when we notice logical inconsistencies between statements and frameworks, using a model to evaluate the likely accuracy of what’s observed.


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## apatheticus (Nov 15, 2011)

Thanks for the link --- that really helped clarify things. I'm now pretty sure that my Te function is more beholden to Fi than I previously thought. As I see it, Fi will first deem the worth of a pursuit according to how I feel about it, and then Te will step in and execute based on Fi's marching orders. 

As for Ti, I'm starting to think that it really is a devilish function (or perhaps even a trickster function). For instance, I'll get super irritated when I see other people blatantly mistyping themselves and putting themselves in certain type categories that I know they don't belong -- given what I know about the Jungian type model. Just thinking about all the "fakes" out there deluding themselves into thinking that they are certain type (when clearly they are not) actually makes my blood boil. But then I realize that I mistype myself all the time, so I'm really no better than the rest of them, even if I think I am. If shadow functions are meant to be projected upon our enemies, then I'm definitely projecting my own frustrations and inadequacies with type categories onto others. 

So assuming that I am a lead Fi -- that still leaves INFP and ISFP. 

It's this whole Se-Ni, Ne-Si dilemma that is driving me crazy. I can easily see myself using both -- and I can easily see myself getting energized by both.

Is anyone up to the challenge of explaining the most tell-tale signs of each function pairing, without all the egregious stereotypes?


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

> *I get bored VERY quickly if I'm not experiencing something different at any given time -- mindless repetition drains the shit out of me and sends me into a downward spiral of angst and restlessness. I don't mind repeating an activity, so long as there is something new or different to be gleaned from it each and every time. Once the novelty has worn out, then it's no longer of interest.


This doesn't sound like Tertiary Si in INFP. And your Te seems just way too pronounced to be a Fi-dom honestly. You also own it way too much -- remember the Inferior represents the opposing way of doing business from your preferred way. If you were a really a Fi-dom, Te woud literally be pulling you in the opposite way it would be a major inferiority complex and probably a sore spot. I might buy ENFP (perhaps ESFP) over IxFP just by virtue of this alone. Most people project their inferior function (being annoyed when other people exhibit it rather than being aware of its presence in themselves - this is what is meant by the Inferior being semi-unconscious, we often are not even consciously aware of its existence, let alone gleefully using it in our everyday lives). 

You sound like someone with a healthy dose of Te and a real ambivalence about Si, along with a love of novelty and exploration which sounds more like ENFP. The tertiary is routinely overlooked by people claiming to be INFP/INTP. They focus on the thinking or feeling aspects, but Si colors these types in very specific ways that people often don't consider. Both INTP/INFP will have something of a childish adherence to Si (perhaps collecting things that were meaningful, recounting memories, returning to familiar places for vacations, scrapbooking, home movies, etc) - this is Si as relief. You explicitly say that repetition of an activity wears you out so again that is something of a strike against Tertiary Si in INFP (maybe it leads toward ISFP if you are dead-set on being an introvert, but again you seem to have too much Te). 

http://personalitycafe.com/enfp-articles/76803-recognizing-inferior-function-enfps.html


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

apatheticus said:


> Thanks for the link --- that really helped clarify things. I'm now pretty sure that my Te function is more beholden to Fi than I previously thought. As I see it, Fi will first deem the worth of a pursuit according to how I feel about it, and then Te will step in and execute based on Fi's marching orders.
> 
> As for Ti, I'm starting to think that it really is a devilish function. For instance, I'll get super irritated when I see other people blatantly mistyping themselves and putting themselves in certain type categories that I know they don't belong -- given what I know about the Jungian type model. Just thinking about all the "fakes" out there deluding themselves into thinking that they are certain type (when clearly they are not) actually makes my blood boil. But then I realize that I mistype myself all the time, so I'm really no better than the rest of them, even if I think I am. If shadow functions are meant to be projected upon our enemies, then I'm definitely projecting my own frustrations and inadequacies with type categories onto others.
> 
> ...


See, i'm an INFP and i have alot of organizing tendencies, i like things organized, and i use charts and lists, etc quite a bit, and i know without the shadow of a doubt, i'm a true INFP. Now if i focus too much on organizing, it will drain my creativity, so i have to be careful of that, cause then that would be disfunctional to my creativity thus i would then be acting in an eruption of inferior function if it's going to take away from my creativity.

Without focusing on pairing right now, by these descriptions, which one do you use more than the other?

Ne – EXTRAVERTED INTUITING
Interpreting situations and relationships and pickup meanings and interconnections to other contexts.
Extraverted iNtuiting involves noticing hidden meanings and interpreting them, often entertaining a wealth of possible interpretations from just one idea or interpreting what someone’s behavior really means. It also involves seeing things “as if,” with various possible representations of reality. Using this process, we can juggle many different ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and meanings in our mind at once with the possibility that they are all true. This is like weaving themes and threads together. We don’t know the weave until a thought thread appears or is drawn out in the interaction of thoughts, often brought in from other contexts. Thus a strategy or concept often emerges from the here-and-now interactions, not appearing as a whole beforehand. Using this process we can really appreciate brainstorming and trust what emerges, enjoying imaginative play with scenarios and combining possibilities, using a kind of cross-contextual thinking. Extraverted iNtuiting also can involve catalyzing people and extemporaneously shaping situations, spreading an atmosphere of change through emergent leadership.


Se - EXTROVERTED SENSING
Experiencing and acting in the immediate context.
Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context. An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention. Extraverted Sensing is operating when we freely follow exciting physical impulses or instincts as they come up and enjoy the thrill of action in the present moment. A oneness with the physical world and a total absorption may exist as we move, touch, and sense what is around us. The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence.


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## apatheticus (Nov 15, 2011)

LiquidLight said:


> Both INTP/INFP will have something of a childish adherence to Si (perhaps collecting things that were meaningful, recounting memories, returning to familiar places for vacations, scrapbooking, home movies, etc) - this is Si as relief. You explicitly say that repetition of an activity wears you out so again that is something of a strike against Tertiary Si in INFP (maybe it leads toward ISFP if you are dead-set on being an introvert, but again you seem to have too much Te).


 This is what makes Si so hard to pinpoint. I can say that as a child and into my early teens, my Si seemed to be much more pronounced -- but then again I grew up in a strong SJ environment where Si was King, so it's difficult to distinguish nature vs. nurture in this case. 

But as of now, it seems to be something that I'd rather disown instead of relishing in. I still have some curiosity towards it, especially in cases where I'm trying to figure myself out by drawing connections from past experiences. Yet when I come face to face with it in the real world, it's either neutral or a big turn-off.

Also, I am not dead set on being an introvert at all. In fact, I very much identify with ENFP -- often as much or more than INFP or ISFP. And I'm still undecided as to where exactly I get my energy from. I'm just wondering though, exactly how introverted and responding can an ENFP truly be? I know that ENFPs are often labeled the most introverted of extroverts -- and so how would you distinguish an unhealthy ENFP from a healthy INFP?


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

apatheticus said:


> This is what makes Si so hard to pinpoint. I can say that as a child and into my early teens, my Si seemed to be much more pronounced -- but then again I grew up in a strong SJ environment where Si was King, so it's difficult to distinguish nature vs. nurture in this case.
> 
> But as of now, it seems to be something that I'd rather disown instead of relishing in. I still have some curiosity towards it, especially in cases where I'm trying to figure myself out by drawing connections from past experiences. Yet when I come face to face with it in the real world, it's either neutral or a big turn-off.
> 
> Also, I am not dead set on being an introvert at all. In fact, I very much identify with ENFP -- often as much or more than INFP or ISFP. And I'm still undecided as to where exactly I get my energy from. I'm just wondering though, exactly how introverted and responding can an ENFP truly be? I know that ENFPs are often labeled the most introverted of extroverts -- and so how would you distinguish an unhealthy ENFP from a healthy INFP?


My guess is given your upbringing you are probably an ENFP who wears more Te-oriented mask because of your SJ environment. But you don't really sound like you really claim Si much at all (in fact you sort of hint at an ambivalence about the difference between you and your family, which suggest perhaps you are projecting Inferior Si onto them). 

It's really tough to think of things from the standpoint of ENFP vs INFP because the letters are sort of meaningless. The two are really two very different types. One is an introverted judgment type (Fi-dominant) whose operating charter is doing things through the lens of their own values. The other is an extraverted perception type (ne-dominant) who operates from the standpoint of possibilities, openness to ideas or experience, interlinking of ideas and a general overal disposition toward the novel. This is a difference that is far more profound than I vs E, in fact I vs E is relatively insignificant (everyone does both).

But if you think of it in the Yin-Yang model it becomes a little more clear:








In INFP the large black area would be Fi with a minority component of Ne helping it out (backing it up) acting somewhat like a First Mate to the Captain. The large white area would be Te, largely unconscious but exerting a lot of weight (probably unconsciously) over the overall disposition of the person, likely through the form of projection onto other people often manifested as having a real antipathy toward strong Te-types -- this is why its oft said that most people are well into middle age before they learn to deal with the inferior because it represents literally a polar opposite perspective that most people would rather not engage. Some Se-doms go almost their entire lives without dealing much with Ni and many Ti-doms never fully learn to acknowledge Fe, they remain hypersensitive their whole lives. 

ENFP on the other hand, the large black area would be Ne with the small white dot representing Fi. The large white area then becomes semi-conscious Inferior Si, being abetted by Te. So ENFPs will tend to have a love/hate with Si. On the one hand having perhaps something of an affinity for the things of the past, but despising and manipulating them at the same time (clear pattern of this in people like Seth MacFarlane, Baz Luhrmann, Quentin Tarantino and Kanye West who both appeal to the past in an almost cynical way but then twist it all around with their uber-Ne). I've noticed many ENxPs who seem to have both an appreciation of things of their past (Seth MacFarlane loves old jazz standards for instance) but a real hatred of traditionalism for its own sake. 

Lenore Thomson's ship model clarifies the functions with the dominant being the captain - setting the operating charter and the default perspective for the person. The auxiliary becomes the first mate helping the dominant and providing another perspective to guide the ego. The tertiary is like a rogue crewmember on water skis behind the boat trying to get everyone to live a little (again this isn't helping the dominant because its starting to pull more on the less-sophisticated unconscious tendencies) and the inferior being a mutinous crewmember who gets kicked off the boat by the captain and is angrily trying to speedboat back to shore, but it still tethered to the ship and still exerting a counter-influence on the direction of the boat. When you look at it this way you can begin to see why people don't want to own their Inferior as much as they often claim (because it involves owning a part of themselves they wish they didn't have).

If we consider the tertiary one can see why people don't necessarily want to own it either but it comes across more as a childish side of themselves. Many ESTJs, for instance, have very healthy Ne tendencies (some mistype as ENFPs) but the giveaway is that they don't take their Ne seriously. When challenged to pursue their interests they will often default to a Te-perspective choosing to see their Ne based interests (maybe they are a DJ or musician on the side) as irresponsible and not a practical way of making a living. To them it is childish (like handing the reigns over to the guy on the speed boat, might be fun for a while but ultimately can't be sustained). I know one ISTP who would use his tertiary Ni to predict when someone might steal a base, or throw an interception, but wouldn't dare try to use that perspective for more than trivial pursuits choosing instead to favor his Ti and Se based dispositions.


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## apatheticus (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm pretty convinced now that I use Ne over Se. The reason being, is that I always feel detached from the physical sensation of things, and thus do not experience the same thrill or pleasure from external sensory stimuli that an SP type would. 

However, I do feel a big energy boost when I am playing with random (or not so random) patterns and interconnections. My favorite conversations often revolve around exploring connections among different things and ideas. So yeah, Ne definitely feels like my primary or secondary cognitive preference.

And I don't know if this is Ne-related or not (I'm pretty sure it is though), but one of my natural talents is the generation of random gobbledygook. I can come up with the most random, nonsensical shit off the top of my head without thinking twice about it. Fi helps me determine if any of this nonsense has worth or value (or whether it should be expressed or not)-- and if it does, it can become a catalyst for creative expression.




Dreamer777 said:


> See, i'm an INFP and i have alot of organizing tendencies, i like things organized, and i use charts and lists, etc quite a bit, and i know without the shadow of a doubt, i'm a true INFP. Now if i focus too much on organizing, it will drain my creativity, so i have to be careful of that, cause then that would be disfunctional to my creativity thus i would then be acting in an eruption of inferior function if it's going to take away from my creativity.



Hmm...this is interesting. Whereas your Te function seems drains your creativity, mine is actually more in line with my creativity. For me, using my Te function in conjunction with Ne is like putting together a complex puzzle -- Ne sees the possibilities among the pieces, and then Te organizes the pieces together for maximum impact, creativity, and efficiency.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Sounds like Ne-dom.


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## Dreamer777 (Jan 15, 2011)

apatheticus said:


> I'm pretty convinced now that I use Ne over Se. The reason being, is that I always feel detached from the physical sensation of things, and thus do not experience the same thrill or pleasure from external sensory stimuli that an SP type would.
> 
> However, I do feel a big energy boost when I am playing with random (or not so random) patterns and interconnections. My favorite conversations often revolve around exploring connections among different things and ideas. So yeah, Ne definitely feels like my primary or secondary cognitive preference.
> 
> ...


Well, in the context you just described, as far as in the procedure of doing something creative, then yes Te steps in and helps too, but what i was talking about is like always wanted the house and everything neatly organized all the time, and i can get a little nit picky with it to the point it consumes too much of my time and energy and thus not leaving me with enough creative time. But yes, i function better in an organized surrounding, but i do have the tendency sometimes to get a little obsessed with everything having to be so organized and leave no room for time and energy to use my creative energy like for example on art and craft. When i do art and craft i feel so happy. Sometimes in doing too much organizing of the home all the time, it can leave me drained and miserable. It's a catch 22 for me, cause i like everything totally organized, i function much better that way. The reason i have to spend alot of time organizing is because i live with my daughter and soninlaw and they are very disorganized, like even with the pots and pans under the kitchen counter, drives me nuts, i live everything in it's place, i don't like searching for stuff, i get angry and miserable and frustrated and annoyed if i have to search for stuff just because no one could bother to put it back in it's rightful place. I also was very good at accounting because of my organizational skill. I have such an organizational skill i could make a career out of it, i could easily be person on Clean House that does all the organizing. i love to organize, but i love to do art and craft, like they say, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, lol, if all i do is organize, and don't use my creative side as in art and craft, i will get dull and miserable!! 

But yes, if you use Te more than Si, then definately that would make you ENFP, and you are mentioning about Ne as being dominant, so all that would point to ENFP.


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## apatheticus (Nov 15, 2011)

LiquidLight said:


> In INFP the large black area would be Fi with a minority component of Ne helping it out (backing it up) acting somewhat like a First Mate to the Captain. The large white area would be Te, largely unconscious but exerting a lot of weight (probably unconsciously) over the overall disposition of the person, likely through the form of projection onto other people often manifested as having a real antipathy toward strong Te-types -- this is why its oft said that most people are well into middle age before they learn to deal with the inferior because it represents literally a polar opposite perspective that most people would rather not engage. Some Se-doms go almost their entire lives without dealing much with Ni and many Ti-doms never fully learn to acknowledge Fe, they remain hypersensitive their whole lives.
> 
> ENFP on the other hand, the large black area would be Ne with the small white dot representing Fi. The large white area then becomes semi-conscious Inferior Si, being abetted by Te. So ENFPs will tend to have a love/hate with Si. On the one hand having perhaps something of an affinity for the things of the past, but despising and manipulating them at the same time (clear pattern of this in people like Seth MacFarlane, Baz Luhrmann, Quentin Tarantino and Kanye West who both appeal to the past in an almost cynical way but then twist it all around with their uber-Ne). I've noticed many ENxPs who seem to have both an appreciation of things of their past (Seth MacFarlane loves old jazz standards for instance) but a real hatred of traditionalism for its own sake.



LiquidLight, you are a beast! And I think you hit the nail right on the head. 

If I was forced to keep one function and ditch the other, I'd definitely keep Te and say sayonara to Si -- I get more more annoyed by people who stubbornly want to root themselves in the past and stick to tradition, more than I do people who are organized, commanding, resourceful, and want to get things done. In fact, I often look up to strong Te types with a sense of awe and tertiary child-like wonder, PROVIDED that they are not naggy STJ types who want to do everything by the book. Again, it's not so much Te as it is Si that truly irks me. 

Also, with regard to Fi, I've noticed that my values are much more flexible and not as rigid as they would be in Fi-doms. I just find it very hard to get worked up or offended by something -- to personally offend me is damn near impossible, because I can use Ne to see the larger context -- or to twist around and shape whatever was supposed to be offending into something completely different.

So yeah, ENFP is starting to sound like the most logical match. And it's very well possible that I use Ne in a more introverted way (meaning that I keep it to myself instead of sharing it outwardly). If that's the case, then I can easily see how I keep mistyping as an introvert -- and why I have outwardly introverted behavioral tendencies even though my lead function is extroverted.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

Most people type themselves as introverts based on behavior. But this is a very misleading measure of I/E in Jungian psychology because any type can be withdrawn or outgoing under the right circumstances (which blows the whole introverted extraverts notion out of the water that people commonly throw out). You can find plenty of shy withdrawn Se-doms for example (many are shy children), same goes for Fe-doms who are uber-aware of how they fit in to society and maybe painfully self-conscious. There is nothing that says a Te-dom should be the life of the party or get their energy from people (again quite the contrary Te-types are far more conceptually oriented than humanely oriented). And an INFJ or ISFJ might live to people-please and be energized in the company of others. So we have to disregard behavioral clues often because they can be very misleading. The only reason Introverts might be withdrawn is due to their inward focus (not having a disposition that is as involved with the outside world) but they could be highly narcissistic and very flippant behaviorally as well. In my estimation I vs E is not as easy to spot as people often think, you're better off trying to determine their superior (or inferior) function.


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## apatheticus (Nov 15, 2011)

Okay...so I've given this whole ENFP possibility thing some time to sink in digest -- and surprise, surprise, the chronic second guessing is creeping it once again. This happens all the time -- like clockwork. I'll be 95% convinced that I'm a specific type, relieved that I finally have a platform underneath me -- and then a short time later, the platform will collapse and I continue my free-fall into typological oblivion. I then keep jumping from type to type until I find the next shaky platform to stand on -- and the process repeats itself. 

I can live with being an ENFP 9w1 -- "You desire to appear elusive. You see yourself as pragmatic, clear, collected, funny, calm and harmonious." --- This description fits me perfectly.

But somehow, it's never good enough -- it's never accurate enough -- It's as if I'm being subconsciously mislead to type as something that I want to be, but who I'm secretly not. Having barely put on the ENFP mask, I'm already taking it off. 

Can someone please explain to me why I would be unable to settle on a certain type, even if it fits me rather well (in an albeit non-stereotypical way)? What the hell is going in inside my head? 

I have 3 possible explanations as to why this is happening:

1) My subconscious mind is forcing me not to come to a firm conclusion (even though I consciously want to), because that would end the exploratory process -- which is what Ne naturally craves.

2) I am looking at this problem from so many different angles -- and one angle leads to another, which leads to another, which leads to another. In the end, there are so many angles; so many possible vantage points, that it's impossible to ever be content. Perhaps an Ne-Te tertiary loop?

3) Something deep down in me is appealing to learned generic MBTI stereotypes of what it means to be an ENFP (basically messy, outgoing, spontaneous, adventurous, externally-engaging Type 7s), and is trying to drill into my head that there is no way in hell that I am an ENFP since I don't conform to these preexisting standards. Could this be inferior Si pulling me in the wrong direction, with such a strong tug that I can't seem to escape it's grip? Or could it be something else entirely?


I'd really appreciate some insight on this, because I'm starting to drive myself crazy.


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## LiquidLight (Oct 14, 2011)

> But somehow, it's never good enough -- it's never accurate enough -- It's as if I'm being subconsciously mislead to type as something that I want to be, but who I'm secretly not. Having barely put on the ENFP mask, I'm already taking it off.
> 
> Can someone please explain to me why I would be unable to settle on a certain type, even if it fits me rather well (in an albeit non-stereotypical way)? What the hell is going in inside my head?
> 
> ...


Probably a combination of the three. The reality is that true type should not be easy to come by. Because it involves looking past your persona (who you want to be, who you want others to see you as, and in some cases who you think you are -- which is dangerous). The reason some people can just grab a type and run off is that they probably find some definition that fits their persona self-definition (probably an ideal) and then run off with it. And then two months later when circumstances have forced a change in their persona they're right back on here again trying to figure out themselves.

True type really involves taking a the sum total of who you are, and learning to see parts of yourself that you may not be aware of. There SHOULD be a bit of discomfort with your real type because it should force you to have to recognize some aspect of yourself that makes you uncomfortable. This is how we begin to recognize (bring consciousness to) our inferior function. Otherwise we are just identifying with the ideal parts of ourselves (persona) and not the true person deep down which is infinitely more complex than the finely tuned masks we wear. 

I love this chart because it easy breaks down the problem









If ENFP doesn't fit you have to ask yourself why. If its simply because you don't want to be a Ne-dom (because of some erroneous definition that you can't let go of that seems to conflict with who you want to be) then that might be an indicator that ENFP might be closer to being true than not (because its tough to part with the persona, it involves really learning to see who we are and most people either want to keep the charade going or justify it with a type code, but not challenge it). Remember Jungian psychology is not interested in the what. There are plenty of measures of what you are (modern Psychology and Psychiatry are expert at this. Kiersey identifies the what. The Five Factor Model identifies the what). Jung was interested in the WHY. This is where it gets tough because now we have to look past the superficialities of how you behave or come across and deep into what's motivating you deep down. 

This is why true typing should be a challenge, because what most people call their type (a function of the ego) is really their persona. Jung himself observed this in his practice and would spend years with a patient before identifying them as a specific type just to be sure he wasn't dealing with their persona. Many people never understand the difference between persona and type and assume that pastor, or teacher, or mayor, or father, or son, or whatever role they are playing, IS who they are. And Jung is asking "who are you apart from who you say you are?" To him you can find out much more by what irritates them or gets on their nerves or challenges them, rather than the neatly presented good self they try to put forth. 

So my advice is to spend some real time trying to figure out what you project onto other people. The things you find weird or off-putting. The parts of yourself you do not want to deal with. That will begin to lead you to your true type. Like I pointed out you seemed to be really ambivalent about Si which is what pointed me to Ne-dom. But I could be wrong. No thread can really help you here because no one can know what's going on deep down. It wasn't until I began to understand that it was me who had the problem with superficiality and physical expression and that I was projecting it on to others (women I found attractive and men I thought were stupid jocks) that I was able to bring consciousness to Inferior Se in myself. Otherwise I was always just seeing it in other people. 

I think the other thing is that you seem to wear Ne and Te pretty well. So just by process of elimination you're either ESTJ or ENFP (no shame in either), but because you seemed to view Si in such a negative light it made me think Ne-dom.


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## JungyesMBTIno (Jul 22, 2011)

@LiquidLight's advice here totally works for me as well in identifying my inferior function (e.g. just yesterday, I was watching an Se dom I knew in one of my classes sit there "refining" her polished fingernails, and, to me, she looked like an obsessive nutcase who was too shallow to ignore her nail polish to pay attention to the lecture - but then, I realized that I was projecting, since I really had no idea if she was or wasn't paying attention to the lecture, and that I would only do something like that if I got obsessively fixated on my fingernails, for instance, which is what often happens to me when inferior Se erupts - I get obsessively fixated on certain annoying sensory stimuli and loose all of my thinking powers via Ni and feel like a shallow idiot).


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## MartinK84 (Feb 14, 2012)

Very hard question I will think about it!


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