# MBTI functions vs Socionics Functions



## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

surra said:


> I'm not a liar. I already told I'm playing mind games, I was at first myself. Realized you are Gamma SEI. But really ESE. No, ESI, always. Decided follow rules and be much more better conversationalist for you, since I had no interest in whatsoever since I feel no purpose sometimes, like we lack something, it's maybe Fe. I have issues. But yeah.


No, you said nothing about mind games. SEI and ESE are Alpha. And if I'm ESI, telling me I lack Se doesn't make a ton of sense. Why don't you try actually talking to me instead of attempting to squeeze yourself into a box based on how you assume I am, based on what clearly is a horrid misunderstanding of the theory you are attempting to apply?



> You're just quickwitted. Nothing to discuss like this, I think.
> 
> 
> You're now honest.
> ...


This seems largely irrelevant to the points being addressed.



> "The people are serious as we speak about this" is strong Fe and Se together in mind. They would point it out if in need of ~something~ around himself now.


This is bad theory.



> Oh, why did I do that.. I don't know. It was interesting. I know you're seeking trust and sincere. *I'm both*.


Except when you play mind games, as you claim_ at the beginning of this fucking post_. Do you read what you write? Do you even care about being consistent? Overall, you give me no reason to believe you know what you're talking about, and you give me no reason to believe my initial reaction to you was unwarranted. I'm not even sure at this point that you aren't just a troll. Or possibly on mind-altering substances, given the disconnect between my words and your responses and the reference to things you never told me in the first place.


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## surra (Oct 1, 2012)

> SEI and ESE are Alpha. And if I'm ESI, telling me I lack Se doesn't make a ton of sense. Why don't you try actually talking to me instead of attempting to squeeze yourself into a box based on how you assume I am, based on what clearly is a horrid misunderstanding of the theory you are attempting to apply?


A horrid misunderstanding is your problem, not mine. I don't have one. I know they are Alpha, but you are confused sometimes like people are. It happens. Squeeze you into a box? So, it's not me all the time. Happens. People use other function than they are intimately desired to use. That's why I used "lacking." You already misinterpreted my intentions when I was my style, TiNe and I don't plan to use it against you, since I can't even interpret your stuff sometimes. It's complex material and don't mind. Now I'm more Te.



> Do you even care about being consistent? Overall, you give me no reason to believe you know what you're talking about, and you give me no reason to believe my initial reaction to you was unwarranted.


I guess I'm dangerous. But who cares, I'm just a woman and play games with myself and try to fit into a box too, now, as I use this site.



> I'm not even sure at this point that you aren't just a troll. Or possibly on mind-altering substances.


Was just playing. Mind games are not my style but they work well since you were very upfront with me, like you probably desire sometimes and I couldn't bring myself discuss this anymore, since this topic is dead to me on this site since there is no general consensus anymore and nobody cares about it much more than me. It's dead yet. So what do you want from me? Be clear, please, like you said yourself to me. What are you up to yourself or do you want more?

I assume you support the mindset here and lack the thoughts the theories aren't similar. Why not?


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

surra said:


> A horrid misunderstanding is your problem, not mine. I don't have one. I know they are Alpha, but you are confused sometimes like people are. It happens. Squeeze you into a box? So, it's not me all the time. Happens. People use other function than they are intimately desired to use. That's why I used "lacking." You already misinterpreted my intentions when I was my style, TiNe and I don't plan to use it against you, since I can't even interpret your stuff sometimes. It's complex material and don't mind. Now I'm more Te.
> 
> 
> I guess I'm dangerous. But who cares, I'm just a woman and play games with myself and try to fit into a box too, now, as I use this site.
> ...


Honestly, I have no motivation to continue attempting to converse with you.


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## surra (Oct 1, 2012)

Kanerou said:


> Honestly, I have no motivation to continue attempting to converse with you.


I agree. Let's see if we killed the thread, fuck, well maybe not.

This seems to be a debate issue here but maybe someone brings conclusion and fits the two theories but who is it? Not me, I'm not an enthusiast but know the truth about this. Just know. 

Interesting, let's see. :dry:


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

@Kanerou 
@surra










@Swordsman of Mana

I am sorrow :sad: I couldn't help myself! :laughing:


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

*rolls eyes*


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

@Swordsman of Mana there's actually a great video between the differences of Fi and Fe in action on Youtube:


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Also @_surra_ holy motherfucking god is that Fi of yours out of fucking wack. Are you absolutely certain of that INTP label? I would seriously reconsider ISFP and INFP because that was a shiteload of Fi aggro between you and Kanerou, and not very characteristic of type 9, even if strong 8 wing, either. Too reactive. I would suggest looking into type 6.

/LeaT out

For those curious how Fi looks like in conflict... well, this thread is a good start. And this is true in both the MBTI and socionics.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

I lack Fe and I say this thread sucks.

So does socionics.

Inb4 hate, so does MBTI.

Have a great day everyone!

P.S: Feel free to project onto me to your liking! :mellow:


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

LeaT said:


> @Swordsman of Mana there's actually a great video between the differences of Fi and Fe in action on Youtube:


this is Jungian Fi vs Fe, not Socionics MBTI Fi vs Fe.

that said, I related more to the Fi side of this video, but I also related to all 3 of the Fe aspects mentioned in the last clip


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> this is Jungian Fi vs Fe, not Socionics MBTI Fi vs Fe.
> 
> that said, I related more to the Fi side of this video, but I also related to all 3 of the Fe aspects mentioned in the last clip


In terms of output, there isn't that great of a difference, at least not according to how I see the systems. And yes, based on your posts and questionnaire answers, you are very much Fi in both systems in my opinion.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

From my understanding of Jungian Fi, Socionics Fi is a bit more global/universal. Socionics Fi focuses on attachment and repulsion between people and things, rather than simply the values of the individual. Socionics Fi often prioritizes the feelings of the individual over the group atmosphere, whether that individual is themselves or someone else. Where Socionics Fe says "Let's cut loose and have a good time" without worrying so much about judging or being judged for the content, Socionics Fi tends to say, "But that person is (/I am) uncomfortable with this."


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## Sixty Nein (Feb 13, 2011)

Socionic's Fi/Fe is largely, form what I understand reservedness vs. animation. As well as the fact that Fi types generally take things more seriously, and are generally more vengeful then Fe types? (I don't know?) Also generally more of a depth of feeling against bredth of feeling.

Jungian Fi/Fe is based on how one evaluates things. Fe types will generally evaluate things based on some sort of cultural standard outside of themselves, while Fi types will generally self-reference themselves as far as the things they like are concerned. So they will generally like things despite if it's considered uncultured to like something. These IMO mostly apply to judgement dominants though, because perception dominants can use Fi/Fe much more freely, due to the fact that feeling is more unconscious to them than not. (If they are just undifferentiated in that at least)


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

St Vual said:


> Socionic's Fi/Fe is largely, form what I understand reservedness vs. animation.


I think that's more a symptom than a cause. Fe focuses on the emotions occurring at a given moment, whereas Fi tends to focus on longer lasting sentiments. As an Fi base, I can be animated and spastic from time to time. However, compared to my Fe base mother, I am more reserved. In fact, she has a tendency to assume I didn't find her jokes funny because I don't laugh loudly enough (or snort quietly rather than laughing at all).



> As well as the fact that Fi types generally take things more seriously, and are generally more vengeful then Fe types? (I don't know?)


Hah... I can't argue the former, at least not for myself. Concerning the latter, I wouldn't necessarily apply that to all Fi types. Delta Fi seems pretty forgiving, actually, and more focused on the potential good within the offender. Gamma Fi? Yeah, your ass is marked.



> Also generally more of a depth of feeling against bredth of feeling.


I kind of get what you're saying here, but don't tell Fe types their feelings aren't deep. They might get pissy.


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## surra (Oct 1, 2012)

LeaT said:


> Also @_surra_ holy motherfucking god is that Fi of yours out of fucking wack. Are you absolutely certain of that INTP label? I would seriously reconsider ISFP and INFP because that was a shiteload of Fi aggro between you and Kanerou, and not very characteristic of type 9, even if strong 8 wing, either. Too reactive. I would suggest looking into type 6.
> 
> /LeaT out
> 
> For those curious how Fi looks like in conflict... well, this thread is a good start. And this is true in both the MBTI and socionics.


Fi? No. I was ENTJ mostly while posting.

I was absolutely calm while posting. Are you projecting your insecurities to me now and attributing your own self to mine? Was just passing time here. Personally, we attested the issue well between the two of us.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

@Swordsman of Mana

In socionics how you use one information element, in this case Fi & Fe depends on the position of it in model A aka what function it has. If we take *IEI for example, they have creative Fe & demonstrative Fi in contrast with EII who have base Fi and ignoring Fe.*

@LeaT for example has what we'd call ignoring or limiting Fe. In her it manifests to such a degree that I for example can't ignore it and it annoys me because she limits it's expression in favor of base Fi. This "supression" comes across very strongly at least in my opinion. "Ignoring Fe" is more of a persistent annoyance for Fi base users, they can use it, but they would rather not:


> The extreme avoidance of this function can make it appear weak at times. However, when engaged it does not cause the same kind of psychological stress as a weak function, instead creating a kind of boredom or malaise.


I for example express Fe and don't limit it especially when I feel secure or in private with people I know. My writing is full of Fe-Se. In contrast with LeaT I'm more expressive, dramatic and don't hold my Fe in check in favor of Fi...this often leads me to believe that I'm neithe EII nor ESI...however the extroverted version of one of the two like SEE for example. I tend to emphasize things that I deem important through a Se-Fe ish aproach and love things that cause this degree of emotional exaltation in me:






I don't really know/I doubt my type, but I'm flamboyant and expressive in contrast to *LeaT who is very "contained"* & I tend to be very energized / get high in heavy Se-Fe environments. Harder, faster, more emotion, I want to feel my mind & soul soaring at the speed of light XD!

Now IEI in contrast has *DEMONSTRATIVE Fi.* As such IEI will understand Fi to the same degree as it understands its base function and it plays a BIG role in the IEI's worldview as it is the easiest function to use after the base function, in this case Ni. IEIs will often defend and assert Se (the vulnerable function) through the use of Fi, will use Fi in private and they tend to ridicule those who take Fi too seriously.

In both cases both elements are very well understood as both are good at both, however they value them differently and thus use them differently because of where the information elements are in model A. 

o.o determine your type how you use a information elements not by their strength in you.


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## Swordsman of Mana (Jan 7, 2011)

@FreeBeer
it sounds like you're saying
MBTI: primarily about what functions you use
Socionics: primarily about how you use the functions. 

in other words, figuring out one's MBTI type has to do with selecting the functions you relate to and then the order while figuring out one's Socionics type is more dependent on reading credible descriptions of all the types and seeing how you relate to each of their functions.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

@Swordsman of Mana

(valid for base or creative feeler)

Also another interesting thing is that intuitive Fi users value Si and thus comfort, aesthetics, stability, peace, good life same as sensory Fe users. I know you like this as well.

<.< in contrast I value energy, force of will, to feel the blood rushing in my veins, to feel alive & energized. I can't for the life of me sit down and meditate in a comfortable room listening to chill music, hell listening to chill music is stressful & annoying ^^;. This makes me for example a sensory Fi user or intuitive Fe user. I need the rush of emotion and to feel the impact of drums, things need to be alive, vibrant and full of energy...I feel most at home with that.

Believe it or not I feel more at home, more in control and more in a meditative stare when dealing with a crisis situation. Comfort, peace and so on makes me restless and edgy.


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## Kanerou (Oct 8, 2009)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> @_FreeBeer_
> it sounds like you're saying
> MBTI: primarily about what functions you use
> Socionics: primarily about how you use the functions.
> ...


Type descriptions are not necessarily bad, but you're better off learning about the Information Elements themselves and how they interact to form the quadras and types. The same IE can manifest in different ways for different people, so it's necessary to learn to recognize the process/lens behind the behavior and not rely as much on profiles, which might try to describe an average but won't manage to cover everyone.


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## Erbse (Oct 15, 2010)

surra said:


> Fi? No. I was ENTJ mostly while posting.
> 
> I was absolutely calm while posting. Are you projecting your insecurities to me now and attributing your own self to mine? Was just passing time here. Personally, we attested the issue well between the two of us.












Back to square 1! Immediately! :mellow:


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

surra said:


> Fi? No. I was ENTJ mostly while posting.
> 
> I was absolutely calm while posting. Are you projecting your insecurities to me now and attributing your own self to mine? Was just passing time here. Personally, we attested the issue well between the two of us.


If you express Te, you also express Fi and ENTJ is Te dominant with Fi inferior so are you suggesting you expressed inferior Fi in your posts? And I'm not projecting (please explain how my post is projection) but it was a simple observation from reading your argument with Kanerou.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

FreeBeer said:


> @_Swordsman of Mana_
> 
> In socionics how you use one information element, in this case Fi & Fe depends on the position of it in model A aka what function it has. If we take *IEI for example, they have creative Fe & demonstrative Fi in contrast with EII who have base Fi and ignoring Fe.*
> 
> ...


I want to clarify that I could probably utilize a so called Fe perspective when comfortable and with good friends but compared to you, I'm not comfortable as easily. I think one of my IEE friends in particular is good at drawing out what you could call Fe in me though, because I don't open up easily to other people. I need to be very comfortable first and trust the people involved and I think that's most likely just an enneagram difference. I don't tend to do it much on a forum because I'm here to discuss theory, not to socialize and have fun. You have no idea how childish and silly I can be though (with Ne) when I feel like it. I just don't tend to show it publicly but there's some thread in the INTP forum where I was trolling with gingertonic for several pages if it's a public example you're looking for. Perfect example of what happens when two Ne types turn Ne (Fe) goofy together. It should be dated somewhere last summer (good luck finding it lulz). 

As for Ni being my demonstrative function, that's very correct. I even think the way Ni is described on wikisocion in the demonstrative position is a bit too negative. I'm very likely to explore Ni viewpoints and I'm quite accepting towards what would be considered Ni subjects such as Western esotericism that has fascinated me since I was a child.


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## surra (Oct 1, 2012)

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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

@LeaT

I agree that the enenagram makes a huge difference here, I'm a reactive social/one to one subtype 6 which basically makes me engaging and dependent on how others perceive me, which in turn makes me react to other people's approach to me / the general "vibe"of my surroundings (why I depend so much on other people's opinion about my personality type for example).

The end result is that I change my surface behavior to be like someone who the other person would be comfortable with or adopt behaviour acceptable for specific situations. This of course involves quickly assessing the other person/situation and deciding how to change myself (something I do naturally without even thinking or trying) to ease the flow of the interaction. <=== why I am seemingly not closed off on the outside, but closed off on the inside. I open up gradually the same way as you, just that it is preceded by what I call "Wearing the social mask." 

I can pull off a good first impression rather easily, but I can't maintain it for long (introversion) so I tend to shut down externally after a while.

What I'd call Fe would be precisely this pattern of reading people & the social atmosphere, changing myself and conforming to what they want me to be, what the situation requires. Feel it like signals around me and it gets really bad when this turns negative. Its impossible for me not to pick up on all of this from everyone and I can't maintain my social mask for too long because I get tired and run out of steam. I have problems handling situations where there is a lot of hidden aggression, ill intention, where people hold in feelings, external conflict..is suffocating, I need to escape or fix the problem, but how do I fix so many unvoiced, denied & suppressed problems. Its difficult to watch two people who hate each other "play nice" for example even if it has very little to nothing to do with me.

This is why I say that being social first makes me socially avoidant, it was also the reason for my social anxiety. I'm more open/sensitive towards non verbal cues and reading between the lines then a lot of other people I know, so I see and understand more in one to one or group interactions. Sux for me because it gets overwhelming, I suck the negative up like a sponge.

Things are different with people I know well and I'm sure you experience this similarly. In such situations I feel free to be myself, I can voice and handle issues because the other people are my friends. Its liberating.

*This stuff is almost all the time my primary concern, it would be awesome if I could escape it...sadly I don't know how to shut it off.*

<.< have you ever met a friend who greeted you enthusiastically only for you to ask "Ok...what is wrong?"...then to see the sudden shock on their face followed by them bursting into tears?

-.- its like being cursed imo....I envy the Ts on these forums.



> Fe as a creative (2nd) function (SEI and IEI)
> 
> The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him. A positive emotional atmophere is essential for his sense of well being and inner peace, and he either tries to promote it himself by directly influencing it around him, or by simply moving away from the environment or the people causing a negative emotional environment in his view.
> 
> For the SEI, this takes an on-the-spot aspect and is reflected in cracking jokes, trying to make people laugh, or simply moving away from people he perceives as affecting him negatively. For the IEI, this takes a longer-term perspective; so the focus, rather than being on the immediate emotional environment, is on the perceived longer-term emotional state of others towards the individual, and is reflected in trying to be on good terms with those he interacts with or seeking distance or protection from, or "preventively" attacking, those he sees as irremediably hostile emotionally.


I think I need someone who is blunt, honest, direct about what they want, not whiny or overly emotional in a negative way. To be around someone like that would probably be very relaxing..

^^; rant/whine/explanation over!


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## Sol_ (Jan 8, 2013)

Swordsman of Mana said:


> in my quest to understand the nebulous system of Socionics, it would be helpful if someone compared the cognitive functions of MBTI and Socionics (for instance, MBTI Fi vs Socionics Fi)


There are Jungian functions only and their detailed interpretation in MBT and Socionics, - essence is same in both. The only thing, - Socionics uses wider interpretation of introversion (Jung's + Augustinavichute's) and this may make some minor differences. So firstly you need to read about E/I preference by Augustinavichute. Then just compare functions descriptions.


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