# Mental chatter and deliberation of action



## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

I know 6s have mental chatter, but what about 5 and 7? If other people from other types also experience mental chatter, I'd like to know what kind of chatter that is as well.

Also, what does it mean to have mental chatter, to you? And are your actions deliberate as in planned and thought out in advance before you do them? Do you think before you speak?


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## Mr inappropriate (Dec 17, 2013)

I experience mental chatter while feeling anxious. It brings up all sorts of negative *possibilities* around.

Otherwise, I think its just called thinking. I think as assuming I'm talking with others. So, I play the role of both myself and my conversation partner. I dont know if this is mental chatter, though.

Actions? Too broad, but I like to think myself as someone who is mostly delibrate. 
I think before I speak only if I'm outside of conversation(orthe topic is sth I'm not into) and trying to find a way to enter into. During the flow of conversation I never felt self-concious to check if I'm thinking or speaking first, so I guess, I speak first.


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## Kyusaku (Mar 18, 2014)

Entropic said:


> I know 6s have mental chatter, but what about 5 and 7? If other people from other types also experience mental chatter, I'd like to know what kind of chatter that is as well.
> 
> Also, what does it mean to have mental chatter, to you? And are your actions deliberate as in planned and thought out in advance before you do them? Do you think before you speak?


4s have a lot of mental chatter as well, mostly with our super ego. We have an unhealthy fixation on what we ought to be that is too perfect and completely unreachable. It's because at our core we are immature 1s. So the conversations are about trying to justify yourself to your super ego, why you fall short of being perfect, why you didn't make better decisions, why those events didn't unfold perfectly. The more you integrate this core and the less chatter you have, because you are much more conscious of what's driving you inside, and less stuck in that Stockholm Syndrom you have with your own, unconscious self.

Do 8s experience internal chatter ?


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

It depends on what you mean by "mental chatter". I always assumed "mental chatter" was my brain just talking away, i.e., my thoughts. In which case, yes, I have mental chatter. My brain is constantly running a commentary on life, making jokes, mulling things over, whatnot. But not in the sense of like...a constant back and forth questioning of everything. Much of it can be made literal when there's someone around I know well and I think wants to hear. 

I assumed this was normal.

My actions are sometimes deliberate, but it's more like I tend to think as I move along, or as I talk. I don't actually spend a lot of time planning my daily actions. More like I get the impulse and go. 

As to speaking, in a group where I'm trying to be concise, I often to sort of reason out my statements before I speak, but I can also speak without thinking at all. I assumed this was more cognition-related than anything else.

I could elaborate if needed, but don't know what else to add at present.


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## Bathilda (Nov 4, 2014)

I agree, I assumed chatter was normal and part of thinking. As far as action goes, it's usually deliberate because it takes a lot for me to be moved to action. When I'm deliberating an action, my superego gets more involved. A sample conversation from this morning:

Superego: It's a beautiful day. You should sit outside.
Ego: But I'm comfy on the couch.
SE: You need your vitamin D. Besides, happy people spend more time in nature.
E: But I might get a bug in my coffee.
SE: You shouldn't drink so much coffee.
E: I get cold without coffee.
SE: If you worked out more, you wouldn't be cold all the time.
E: I can't see my screen outside.
SE: Maybe you should read that stack of physical papers you've been putting off for months.
E: That sounds hard. I wonder what's on Facebook.
Id: I'm sleepy.
SE: WTF. It's 9 a.m.
Id: I'm SLEEPY.
E: Yeah, I think I'll take a nap. After I finish this coffee.
SE: I hate you all.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kipposhi said:


> It depends on what you mean by "mental chatter". I always assumed "mental chatter" was my brain just talking away, i.e., my thoughts. In which case, yes, I have mental chatter. My brain is constantly running a commentary on life, making jokes, mulling things over, whatnot. But not in the sense of like...a constant back and forth questioning of everything. Much of it can be made literal when there's someone around I know well and I think wants to hear.


Well, obviously everyone thinks, but my impression of mental chatter is that some people pay more conscious attention to their thoughts than others, for the same reason some people experience to "live in their heads". I don't understand either statement and what it means or feels like, hence the OP. 

I personally pay very little attention to what goes on in my head. I usually can't recall what I've been thinking about if I've been thinking at all.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

I think mental chatter usually refers to thoughts that just seem to happen on their own in the background, like some kind of mental radio. I actually don't have this at all and find it odd that a thought could happen on its own or be beyond one's conscious control because all of my thoughts are deliberate. If I want to think something I think it and if I don't then I don't. I still spend most of my time thinking, though, usually introspective thoughts, ideas, and conceptualizations about enneagram or my psychology. I've also been focused on dream interpretation and object relations lately. 

Sometimes I think before I act and sometimes I just run on autopilot. Then I wonder how I ended up in the pastry aisle and try to remember again where it was I wanted to go.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Idk.
I have things including conversations running through my head most of the time but that's just thinking, right? (but not really actively thinking about something.No idea how to describe it, but I know there's some words in my head)
But I often forget my thoughts.

I'm pretty deliberate, not completely deliberate(as in perfecly thought out words/actions), but I have some idea where I'm going. Except when I don't. I feel like I do many things on impulse, I just "know" and do, especially with people and also when I'm in some kind of danger, but at the same time I'm quite think-y, I have thoughts but they are not directly related to what's happening atm or what's about to happen soon.
Also, it's hard for me to just automatically start thinking when the situation actually calls for it.
However, a while ago I had something I'd describe as social anxiety and it made me think more before speaking, but my thoughts were even then a bit unrelated to situation and not really that perfectly planned, all of it was just so much bigger than any specific word, action or conversation.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

Mental chatter is having ten parallel lines of thought running amok in your head at all times during the day. I always thought this was normal in people, but my 9w8 so/sp friend has told me that there are extended periods of time when literally _nothing_ is going on in her head. This is because she chooses when to think and when not to think. I very rarely have that luxury. There's always a cacophony of voices running rampant. I'm a songwriter. I often get inspired when two or more lines of thought suddenly slam into each other.

I prefer not thinking too far ahead. I make an effort to take action before the mental chatter turns its flapping gums to the situation at hand. I generally make... better isn't the word, but decisions I _like_ and can live with when I beat my brain to it.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Hmm, I'm not sure what counts as mental chatter.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

star tripper said:


> Mental chatter is having ten parallel lines of thought running amok in your head at all times during the day.


Can you give examples of this?


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

star tripper said:


> Mental chatter is having ten parallel lines of thought running amok in your head at all times during the day. I always thought this was normal in people, but *my 9w8 so/sp friend has told me that there are extended periods of time when literally nothing is going on in her head.* This is because she chooses when to think and when not to think. I very rarely have that luxury. There's always a cacophony of voices running rampant. I'm a songwriter. I often get inspired when two or more lines of thought suddenly slam into each other.
> 
> I prefer not thinking too far ahead. I make an effort to take action before the mental chatter turns its flapping gums to the situation at hand. I generally make... better isn't the word, but decisions I _like_ and can live with when I beat my brain to it.


I'm not sure if I envy your friend or terrified by the prospect she represents. 

I know I always have something going on in my head, even if it's nothing profound. Whether it's thinking about some random issue, distracting myself from something, psychoanalyzing myself, visualizing something, daydreaming, planning...yeah, there are times I wish I could turn my brain off.


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## Donovan (Nov 3, 2009)

honestly, i'd say that "mental chatter" is a sign of unease in myself. this is all going to be subjective, but i'll go for it anyhow:


i can be relaxed and let my mind go where ever it will, but if something's bothering me or is a problem, my mind will always find it's way back. it's like a nagging rough spot that i trip over, or a point of a higher gravity within my head, that grabs my attention--if it's negative, i'll notice it. 
i'll keep coming back to it till i have a "solution". most times, this solution is just to calm myself, and to allow myself to naturally approach the situation within my head along the/a path that will let me deal. so, i don't have to think any one way, but i just feel out which is the best approach overall, until i've solved it in fantasy land, so then i am now oriented towards dealing with it in the present. 

there are other times i will just be angry/upset, and not realize what it's about, and so skip the mental part and just "accidentally" find both the problem and the solution by just going about my day. 
i usually don't have a problem addressing something in the present, unless it's obviously going to be 'stupid'/will work against me, to do so. then i have to wait for that "feeling" to figure out where the back-door will be.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

Entropic said:


> Can you give examples of this?


This is a snapshot of what happened while I was replying to a text message a few minutes ago. Keep in mind I didn't necessarily _finish_ any of these thoughts as some of them interrupt one another.

"Am I doing this because I'm confident or insecure?"
"What if I was male? How would this translate?"
"Does the fact that I always think of what the male equivalent of something mean something about my sexuality?"
[memory of when I was a kid randomly plays] "Wait was that a real memory or did I just totally make that up?"
"I'm taking too long to reply to this text. I'm such an asshole."
"I shouldn't reply to this text right away. I don't wanna make a commitment to the conversation."
"Have I been distracting myself from something important?"
"Should I keep distracting myself from something important even though I don't know what that something is?"
"Wait what the shit this text is two days old. I guess there's no harm in ignoring it now."
"What kind of character would I be if I was in a TV show like Gossip Girl?"
"I should probably reply to this text lest I lose more credibility as a friend."
[starts texting] "If I was a dictator allied with the president, would I betray that alliance for x or y?"
"Oh, look, the letter h. What a raunchy-looking letter. [memory of a Whose Line episode] I wish there were more TV shows with raunchy female protagonists like Red Sonja. I should write a story like that but in a Dante's Inferno-esque setting."
"Did I ever finish The Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz?"
"Constantine's coming to Arrow. I should call my boyfriend and tell him!"
"Maybe that Dante's Inferno-esque story can be like politics in hell."
"Don't call him. He probably doesn't care that much even though he loves those shows."
"Maybe he doesn't really like those shows and he's just a high-class fuckboy."

That's basically running in the background of my mind the whole day. Some of the thoughts clearly follow one another, but others are running on top of each other (ie the ones that directly contradict one another).

Edit:



ScientiaOmnisEst said:


> I'm not sure if I envy your friend or terrified by the prospect she represents.
> 
> I know I always have something going on in my head, even if it's nothing profound. Whether it's thinking about some random issue, distracting myself from something, psychoanalyzing myself, visualizing something, daydreaming, planning...yeah, there are times I wish I could turn my brain off.


My friend has actually had many an existential crisis from the fact that she can go periods of time without thinking about anything. Whenever I talk about when I was a kid and the shit I would think about, she'd reply, "I don't think I thought about... anything. Like I think I was a totally empty shell for the first 12 years of my life." I always thought it was enneagram-related, but perhaps not.


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## ScientiaOmnisEst (Oct 2, 2013)

star tripper said:


> My friend has actually had many an existential crisis from the fact that she can go periods of time without thinking about anything. Whenever I talk about when I was a kid and the shit I would think about, she'd reply, "I don't think I thought about... anything. Like I think I was a totally empty shell for the first 12 years of my life." I always thought it was enneagram-related, but perhaps not.


Heh, I'm not sure what the hell I thought about for the first decade or so of my life - mostly it was fantasizing about random crap, playing around with stories. Nothing intellectually substantial, though. I've had a few crises regarding this myself.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

star tripper said:


> This is a snapshot of what happened while I was replying to a text message a few minutes ago. Keep in mind I didn't necessarily _finish_ any of these thoughts as some of them interrupt one another.
> 
> "Am I doing this because I'm confident or insecure?"
> "What if I was male? How would this translate?"
> ...


WTF lol. Is this how you are like pretty much _all the time_? How do you even live life that way? Isn't it extremely tiring? I mean, just reading this exhausts me.


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## Vermillion (Jan 22, 2012)

star tripper said:


> This is a snapshot of what happened while I was replying to a text message a few minutes ago. Keep in mind I didn't necessarily _finish_ any of these thoughts as some of them interrupt one another.
> 
> "Am I doing this because I'm confident or insecure?"
> "What if I was male? How would this translate?"
> ...


Jeez! Me 100% of the time :shocked: Sometimes I tell myself to shut the fuck up and then start thinking about shutting the fuck up... it never ends.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

Entropic said:


> WTF lol. Is this how you are like pretty much _all the time_? How do you even live life that way? Isn't it extremely tiring? I mean, just reading this exhausts me.


It depends. If I find any of the thoughts interesting, I might zero in on the thought and then the whole cycle starts again (thinking a whole bunch of thoughts vaguely pertaining to that one thought I zeroed in on). I can gain a lot of energy from my own mental chatter as it's a source of inspiration. It can also drive me insane depending on the situation at hand.


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## Doktorin Zylinder (May 10, 2015)

Everyone has mental chatter unless they managed to never get it, which I seriously doubt, or they meditate on a regular basis and have learned to shut it off or some other related practice. 

I've been practicing Zen for nearly fifteen years and I can flick it off at a thought, if I wish.


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## star tripper (Sep 1, 2013)

Night Huntress said:


> Jeez! Me 100% of the time :shocked: Sometimes I tell myself to shut the fuck up and then start thinking about shutting the fuck up... it never ends.


Yeah, the mental chatter can get super meta.

"I should shut the fuck up."
"What does it mean that I think I should shut the fuck up?"
"Am I being a control freak over myself?"
"Am I submitting to society's concept of shutting the fuck up?"
"Am I conforming to society's concept of shutting the fuck up?"
"Is there a difference between conforming and submitting?"
"Is there anything inherently wrong with conforming and submitting?"
"Am I selling out by shutting the fuck up?"
"Am I more attractive if I shut the fuck up?"

If I don't find a suitable distraction, I can keep digging that grave deeper and deeper.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

star tripper said:


> It depends. If I find any of the thoughts interesting, I might zero in on the thought and then the whole cycle starts again (thinking a whole bunch of thoughts vaguely pertaining to that one thought I zeroed in on). I can gain a lot of energy from my own mental chatter as it's a source of inspiration. It can also drive me insane depending on the situation at hand.


I can see that, but still, the very idea of spending so much time thinking or at least, paying attention to one's thinking, seems extremely draining to me. I mean, if I don't want to think... I just don't think, I guess. Thinking is like @Recede wrote, actually very deliberate as in I literally have to go THINK NOW. Otherwise I just drift away and do stuff but I'm not really paying anything conscious attention. I think I do a lot of things on autopilot in this way. 



Doktorin Zylinder said:


> Everyone has mental chatty unless they managed to never get it, which I seriously doubt, or they meditation on a regular basis and have learned to shut it off or some other related practice.
> 
> I've been practicing Zen for nearly fifteen years and I can flick it off at a thought, if I wish.


What's your definition or understanding of mental chatter in this context? Because like @Recede, I don't have it, at least if what @star tripper wrote is exemplary of what mental chatter is actually like. 

I don't pay attention to my thoughts, pretty much. I mean, you can ask me at any given moment what I'm thinking about and it's incredibly difficult for me to recall or notice. I do think, but thinking isn't at the forefront of my mind. I'm actually a more feeling-driven individual, outside of being action-oriented, anyway. I most of all focus on my actions at any given moment, what I'm doing. I'm not for example thinking anything in particular as I'm writing this outside of how the words that I want to put down come as I write them (yes, I have to consciously direct my attention to focus on what I'm thinking and I can't seem to notice anything). Never practiced meditation much because I found it didn't really work for me. 

If you don't shut down your chatter, what is it like?


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Distortions said:


> Hmm, I'm not sure what counts as mental chatter.


I always associate it with something uncomfortable, like being unable to stop the thoughts, which I never experience btw, actually my mind(but everything else too) feels very empty often and even when it's not I can turn off my thoughts easily.I can't even imagine not being able to sleep because of my thoughts. That's probably why I rarely feel "stressed"


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## Psithurism (Jun 19, 2013)

Living dead said:


> I can't even imagine not being able to sleep because of my thoughts.


I've had trouble falling asleep since as far as I can remember because my mind just doesn't stop. Unless I'm very tired, it takes on average about 2 hours in bed for me to fall asleep. I experience constant rumination and I'm inclined to believe by now that this perpetual buzzing will only end with death.



> And are your actions deliberate as in planned and thought out in advance before you do them? Do you think before you speak?


Almost always, unless I'm forced to be spontaneous or I (ironically) consider being spontaneous as the best plan. I can even plan out situations days ahead, if I already decided on the result I want.


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## Amine (Feb 23, 2014)

_"My God, Vanessa's got a fabulous body... I bet she shags like a minx. How do I tell her that because of the unfreezing process I have no inner-monolog?"_

Everyone has mental chatter.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Amine said:


> _"My God, Vanessa's got a fabulous body... I bet she shags like a minx. How do I tell her that because of the unfreezing process I have no inner-monolog?"_
> 
> Everyone has mental chatter.


Define mental chatter.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Entropic said:


> What's your definition or understanding of mental chatter in this context? Because like @_Recede_ , I don't have it, at least if what @_star tripper_ wrote is exemplary of what mental chatter is actually like.
> 
> I don't pay attention to my thoughts, pretty much. I mean, you can ask me at any given moment what I'm thinking about and it's incredibly difficult for me to recall or notice. I do think, but thinking isn't at the forefront of my mind. I'm actually a more feeling-driven individual, outside of being action-oriented, anyway. I most of all focus on my actions at any given moment, what I'm doing. I'm not for example thinking anything in particular as I'm writing this outside of how the words that I want to put down come as I write them (yes, I have to consciously direct my attention to focus on what I'm thinking and I can't seem to notice anything). Never practiced meditation much because I found it didn't really work for me.


You have thoughts you don't pay attention to? That sounds more like mental chatter to me, I don't know. But maybe mental chatter you can turn on or off? For me it's different, it wouldn't make sense for me to say that I don't pay attention to thoughts because I intentionally and consciously produce every detail of every thought, there's no autopilot for my thoughts. To not notice for me would be like not noticing what I'm saying in a conversation, it just wouldn't be possible. (Other people can't do that either, can they? Speak without noticing?)



Doktorin Zylinder said:


> Everyone has mental chatty unless they managed to never get it, which I seriously doubt, or they meditation on a regular basis and have learned to shut it off or some other related practice.
> 
> I've been practicing Zen for nearly fifteen years and I can flick it off at a thought, if I wish.


As I already said, I don't seem to have mental chatter and never did. I've tried meditation before but I'm not sure I understand the purpose of it or how to tell if I'm doing it right. I don't think it works for me. 

I kind of wish I had mental chatter because that would probably make it easier to talk. I just have nothing to say a lot of the time, and people probably think I'm shy and holding back when there's really nothing on my mind.


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## Doktorin Zylinder (May 10, 2015)

Entropic said:


> What's your definition or understanding of mental chatter in this context? Because like @Recede, I don't have it, at least if what @star tripper wrote is exemplary of what mental chatter is actually like.
> 
> I don't pay attention to my thoughts, pretty much. I mean, you can ask me at any given moment what I'm thinking about and it's incredibly difficult for me to recall or notice. I do think, but thinking isn't at the forefront of my mind. I'm actually a more feeling-driven individual, outside of being action-oriented, anyway. I most of all focus on my actions at any given moment, what I'm doing. I'm not for example thinking anything in particular as I'm writing this outside of how the words that I want to put down come as I write them (yes, I have to consciously direct my attention to focus on what I'm thinking and I can't seem to notice anything). Never practiced meditation much because I found it didn't really work for me.
> 
> If you don't shut down your chatter, what is it like?


Mental chatter is anything other than a single deliberate thought. What @Recede has I'd still label as chatter. The lack of mental chatter is a complete lack of thought is almost all cases. What you list as [thinking, but can't recall] would constitute mental chatter to me, as well. Thoughts don't appear out of nowhere, though; they are always prompted by something. If a person holds open the door for you, that may spark that they happen to be nice or polite or old fashioned or what have you. That could lead to I wonder which one? What's their MBTI? I don't have enough information to properly label such a person. What about other people? How can I type them quickly with little information? Et cetera. This is an example of chatter. Even thoughts you personally initiate can take this sort of turn. You get a piece of work and things have to be done, so that cycle of thought goes through its course in relation to that, as well. 

Think of it this way: if you were to walk down the street and could hear everyone's thoughts, you'd think every person walking around you was absolutely batcrap crazy. A lot of people don't like it when others talk to themselves out loud, but the reality is a lot of people do it in their heads and that really isn't much better. The vast majority of people seem to be nuts, but most are relatively good at hiding it. I've also noticed that the more modern the society, the more likely people are to be nuts. 

Anxiety seems to stem from mental chatter, too. I found that out the hard way. I used to have a lot of anxiety for various reasons. Negative projections into the future of terrible what if scenarios. Not even terrible ones, sometimes, but just negative ones. Meditation and Zen really helped me with that. It removed a lot of crutches in my life, as well. My mind is pretty blank most of the time unless I need to use it, nowadays. 

_A sword is sharpest when kept in its sheath._ A mind should be used for tasks and not dulled on the constant mundanity. It's extremely freeing to not think, sometimes, especially in retrospect. Inner peace is.

Excuse my grammatical errors. I'm sleep deprived today.


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## d e c a d e n t (Apr 21, 2013)

Living dead said:


> I always associate it with something uncomfortable, like being unable to stop the thoughts, which I never experience btw, actually my mind(but everything else too) feels very empty often and even when it's not I can turn off my thoughts easily.I can't even imagine not being able to sleep because of my thoughts. That's probably why I rarely feel "stressed"


Hmm I can have some unpleasant thoughts I can't quite stop, and turning off my thoughts at will sounds strange... still, I don't really think _that _much. Often I feel like a being of pure emotion. =P


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Recede said:


> You have thoughts you don't pay attention to? That sounds more like mental chatter to me, I don't know.


Well, not quite. I know I have thoughts, but I don't notice they exist. 



> But maybe mental chatter you can turn on or off? For me it's different, it wouldn't make sense for me to say that I don't pay attention to thoughts because I intentionally and consciously produce every detail of every thought, there's no autopilot for my thoughts. To not notice for me would be like not noticing what I'm saying in a conversation, it just wouldn't be possible. (Other people can't do that either, can they? Speak without noticing?)


For me everything is pretty much autopilot unless I literally go THINK NOW. I mean, it's not even a matter of turning something on and off, because there's nothing to turn off in the first place. Even if there is something to turn off I don't notice it's there. It's like trying to control your breathing, you just do it but it recedes into such background noise you never bother to pay it any attention. It becomes one of many things you do and thus it ceases to exist. 



> As I already said, I don't seem to have mental chatter and never did. I've tried meditation before but I'm not sure I understand the purpose of it or how to tell if I'm doing it right. I don't think it works for me.
> 
> I kind of wish I had mental chatter because that would probably make it easier to talk. I just have nothing to say a lot of the time, and people probably think I'm shy and holding back when there's really nothing on my mind.


I just say whatever spontaneously comes into my mind usually, like, I just say it. There's no thought involved before I say it.



Doktorin Zylinder said:


> Mental chatter is anything other than a single deliberate thought. What @Recede has I'd still label as chatter. The lack of mental chatter is a complete lack of thought is almost all cases. What you list as [thinking, but can't recall] would constitute mental chatter to me, as well. Thoughts don't appear out of nowhere, though; they are always prompted by something. If a person holds open the door for you, that may spark that they happen to be nice or polite or old fashioned or what have you. That could lead to I wonder which one? What's their MBTI? I don't have enough information to properly label such a person. What about other people? How can I type them quickly with little information? Et cetera. This is an example of chatter. Even thoughts you personally initiate can take this sort of turn. You get a piece of work and things have to be done, so that cycle of thought goes through its course in relation to that, as well.
> 
> Think of it this way: if you were to walk down the street and could hear everyone's thoughts, you'd think every person walking around you was absolutely batcrap crazy. A lot of people don't like it when others talk to themselves out loud, but the reality is a lot of people do it in their heads and that really isn't much better. The vast majority of people seem to be nuts, but most are relatively good at hiding it. I've also noticed that the more modern the society, the more likely people are to be nuts.
> 
> ...


Yeah, then we operate on different definitions. I'd make a distinction between thoughts and chatter. What Recede seems to describe strikes more as thoughts rather than chatter. The way I understand chatter is more a very conscious awareness of thoughts but inability to control the flow and the source of them. As for the case of opening the door, I would usually not pay it much attention or think about it, quite frankly. The example you cite is kind of odd like that because I don't really go "I wonder if...". I can't relate to it anyway. Usually, if I'm heading somewhere, I'm extremely focused on where I'm headed and how to get there so if someone's holding the door, I wouldn't pay it attention more than appreciating the gesture and move on. As I wrote, I'm very focused on my actions, what I'm doing, where I'm going. 

Also, it should be noted, I _do_ very often think out loud. My speech and thinking are intrinsically linked. This is why I didn't understand how to read silently as a child, as I thought reading silently meant the same as reading out loud. The more intensely I think about a subject I am trying to understand, the more likely I am to actually literally vocalize my thoughts. 

And yes, there's a reason why I made the thread and linked mental chatter more to the head types because head types have the most conscious attention to their thoughts and mental content. Head types also suffer the most from anxiety as a result of their constant thinking.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Doktorin Zylinder said:


> Mental chatter is anything other than a single deliberate thought. What @_Recede_ has I'd still label as chatter. The lack of mental chatter is a complete lack of thought is almost all cases. What you list as [thinking, but can't recall] would constitute mental chatter to me, as well. Thoughts don't appear out of nowhere, though; they are always prompted by something. If a person holds open the door for you, that may spark that they happen to be nice or polite or old fashioned or what have you. That could lead to I wonder which one? What's their MBTI? I don't have enough information to properly label such a person. What about other people? How can I type them quickly with little information? Et cetera. This is an example of chatter. Even thoughts you personally initiate can take this sort of turn. You get a piece of work and things have to be done, so that cycle of thought goes through its course in relation to that, as well.
> 
> Think of it this way: if you were to walk down the street and could hear everyone's thoughts, you'd think every person walking around you was absolutely batcrap crazy. A lot of people don't like it when others talk to themselves out loud, but the reality is a lot of people do it in their heads and that really isn't much better. The vast majority of people seem to be nuts, but most are relatively good at hiding it. I've also noticed that the more modern the society, the more likely people are to be nuts.
> 
> ...


Do you actually have thoughts like that when someone holds the door open for you? What you describe here, the external world sparking thoughts, is very foreign to me. For me the external world doesn't spark thoughts, rather I consciously direct my attention toward what I want to focus on, and then I still have to deliberately form thoughts about it. Thoughts come from myself, not the world. They're never an automatic, radio-like noise that happens _to_ me, they are what I _do_ by choice. I'd say maybe this is related to being cognitively introverted, except that pretty much everyone else whether introverted or extraverted seems to describe their thoughts in the way you do.


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## Dragheart Luard (May 13, 2013)

Yeah, I have it and it's specially bad when I'm stressed as my mind can't stop thinking about a problem even if I can't do shit for fixing it. I also get ideas randomly about things that aren't related to my work, so I try to ignore them as I get distracted and can't focus properly on my current task. I really want to stop that stuff when it gets out of control, so I have to find an outlet for all the ideas so they stop bothering me. Writing random stuff kinda helps to filter the crap and focus on the really relevant ideas that I get.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Entropic said:


> I just say whatever spontaneously comes into my mind usually, like, I just say it. There's no thought involved before I say it.


I think if I tried that my thoughts would be totally irrelevant or inappropriate to the conversation. Like "Why am I not able to think of anything to say right now? Maybe I should try to come up with a conversation topic or ask a question or something. I don't know. I kind of feel like going home right now. Oh yeah I have homework to do later. Oh whoops I'm off topic now." Don't think that would work too well to voice those thoughts. (I don't normally have these thoughts in conversations but if I tried to force myself to generate more thoughts and express them immediately, unfiltered, it would sound something like that.)


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## periwinklepromise (Jan 26, 2015)

I think I go by the definition of "mental chatter" that startripper and Verglas are using, with the same general patterns. It takes two hours for me to get to sleep too - there's always something to think about. And I tend to have a few trains of thought running at once, unless I decide to commit to one I really _want_ to focus on (which is generally personality or politics... though sometimes I get distracted and have to remind myself where I left the A train). I used to attribute this to my Ni-dominance. But it's obviously not universal to or exclusive to Ni-doms.


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

Entropic said:


> I just say whatever spontaneously comes into my mind usually, like, I just say it. There's no thought involved before I say it.


That's impossible imo, I'd be the most hated person in the world as well as most likely dead if I said things that came totally spontaneously lol
At times embarrassed too
And I don't think I'm that bad, I don't even wanna imagine what some people are secretly thinking
I mean, it's not like I carefully choose every word before speaking but I have some sort of filter depending on who I'm talking to and why and idea of where I'm going, and I'd call that thinking. Can't imagine anyone lacking it.
But I guess it depends on type of conversation mostly and what you're naturally focusing on.


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## Doktorin Zylinder (May 10, 2015)

Recede said:


> Do you actually have thoughts like that when someone holds the door open for you? What you describe here, the external world sparking thoughts, is very foreign to me. For me the external world doesn't spark thoughts, rather I consciously direct my attention toward what I want to focus on, and then I still have to deliberately form thoughts about it. Thoughts come from myself, not the world. They're never an automatic, radio-like noise that happens _to_ me, they are what I _do_ by choice. I'd say maybe this is related to being cognitively introverted, except that pretty much everyone else whether introverted or extraverted seems to describe their thoughts in the way you do.


I do not have such thoughts. I was looking for an example my INFP ex gave me years ago. I have no idea as to her enneagram, though. She did live in her head, though. Mind you, when I do think, I do live in my head most of the time. The world of theory is my domain, so I only come out to the physical when required. My work requires a lot of theory. You might be one of the few people who never developed the chatter. I cannot say as we cannot share experiences. C'est la vie.


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## Quang (Sep 4, 2014)

My mind is noisiest when I am upset about something I did not do or longing for intimacy, for example, not making a move on a girl that I am interested in. So I wouldn't say the mental chatter isn't so loud most of the time 

On an average day, it's something along the lines of 
"Oh, what a nice day" 
"What a nice looking girl"

"...I bet she would look good against my body"

#Average9Day


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## Philathea (Feb 16, 2015)

Living dead said:


> That's impossible imo, I'd be the most hated person in the world as well as most likely dead if I said things that came totally spontaneously


hahahahahahaha!

Me too. Essentially everything I say is filtered. I think that has a lot to do with being an image type- depending on who I'm with, I say very different things. Being a social dom probably influences this too.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Recede said:


> I think if I tried that my thoughts would be totally irrelevant or inappropriate to the conversation. Like "Why am I not able to think of anything to say right now? Maybe I should try to come up with a conversation topic or ask a question or something. I don't know. I kind of feel like going home right now. Oh yeah I have homework to do later. Oh whoops I'm off topic now." Don't think that would work too well to voice those thoughts. (I don't normally have these thoughts in conversations but if I tried to force myself to generate more thoughts and express them immediately, unfiltered, it would sound something like that.)





Living dead said:


> That's impossible imo, I'd be the most hated person in the world as well as most likely dead if I said things that came totally spontaneously lol
> At times embarrassed too
> And I don't think I'm that bad, I don't even wanna imagine what some people are secretly thinking
> I mean, it's not like I carefully choose every word before speaking but I have some sort of filter depending on who I'm talking to and why and idea of where I'm going, and I'd call that thinking. Can't imagine anyone lacking it.
> But I guess it depends on type of conversation mostly and what you're naturally focusing on.


lol, the nitpick. But I am also completely serious. It just seems as if you don't quite understand what I mean. I am not filtering my thoughts right now for example. I write these words exactly as they come into my mind. I can't explain it any other way. I don't have thoughts and then speak. I speak as I think. Therefore I cannot really filter in that way.


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## Cataclysm (Mar 16, 2015)

Entropic said:


> lol, the nitpick. But I am also completely serious. It just seems as if you don't quite understand what I mean. I am not filtering my thoughts right now for example. I write these words exactly as they come into my mind. I can't explain it any other way. I don't have thoughts and then speak. I speak as I think. Therefore I cannot really filter in that way.


What goes on in your mind when you _don't_ do anything that takes a considerable amount of mental focus? Say when you walk to the store or something. Do you just focus on your walking and surroundings?


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kleop said:


> What goes on in your mind when you _don't_ do anything that takes a considerable amount of mental focus? Say when you walk to the store or something. Do you just focus on your walking and surroundings?


Uh, usually I'm listening to music or chatting to people. I don't know how to answer that question. I'm usually always occupied in some way.


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## Cataclysm (Mar 16, 2015)

Entropic said:


> Uh, usually I'm listening to music or chatting to people. I don't know how to answer that question. I'm usually always occupied in some way.


Ok, but report back after your next music and friend free fifteen minutes and tell me what happend in your head.


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## To_august (Oct 13, 2013)

I think mental chatter means having intrusive clutter of thoughts that are difficult to shut down, because... it should differ somehow from general day-to-day thinking, right?

When I'm stressed out I frequently have this unpleasant humming of all kinds of related and unrelated thoughts, which turn my head into a mental scrapheap. Totally hate when this happens, as normally I tend to have pretty much organized and consistent flow of thoughts, and uncontrolled mental chatter is exhausting and unproductive to my mind.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kleop said:


> Ok, but report back after your next music and friend free fifteen minutes and tell me what happend in your head.


?

No idea what this is meant to suggest. I mean, the only thing I could recall from yesterday is that I saw the daycare center on my walk to work and I associated to what my girlfriend said that she never noticed it was there. That was about it.

I don't recall my thinking because I don't pay attention to it, as I said. Not sure why you are so intent on proving that I have some kind of chatter because I don't experience it that way and it doesn't fit the definition that was proposed earlier. I'd separate chatter from thoughts. Everyone thinks, including myself. I admit as much. I know that I think, but I don't pay any real attention to that I am.


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## Lord Bullingdon (Aug 9, 2014)

Entropic said:


> Well, obviously everyone thinks, but my impression of mental chatter is that some people pay more conscious attention to their thoughts than others, for the same reason some people experience to "live in their heads". I don't understand either statement and what it means or feels like, hence the OP.
> 
> I personally pay very little attention to what goes on in my head. I usually can't recall what I've been thinking about if I've been thinking at all.


OK I see what you mean now.

I have to say, I am familiar with the phenomenon you reference. It's like when you're dreaming, and you wake up and instantaneously forget it, even though you know you were totally into it at the time. Like if someone said, "A penny for your thoughts", I often wouldn't be able to answer. There's some sort of barrier between my inner and outer world.

Actually, getting into this personality and psychological stuff, observing my own thoughts and processes has really helped me become more conscious of my thoughts. It does take a significant amount of effort, though.


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## Cataclysm (Mar 16, 2015)

Entropic said:


> ?
> 
> No idea what this is meant to suggest. I mean, the only thing I could recall from yesterday is that I saw the daycare center on my walk to work and I associated to what my girlfriend said that she never noticed it was there. That was about it.
> 
> I don't recall my thinking because I don't pay attention to it, as I said. Not sure why you are so intent on proving that I have some kind of chatter because I don't experience it that way and it doesn't fit the definition that was proposed earlier. I'd separate chatter from thoughts. Everyone thinks, including myself. I admit as much. I know that I think, but I don't pay any real attention to that I am.


I meant what I said and I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just interested in how you describe your down time. It almost resembles some sort of meditative state.


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## Entropic (Jun 15, 2012)

Kleop said:


> I meant what I said and I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just interested in how you describe your down time. It almost resembles some sort of meditative state.


All right, it certainly came across that way, seeing the context of your previous posts. I guess I'd describe it as space-y. Not thinking about any particular of one thing or paying attention to any particular one thing.


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## fawning (May 31, 2015)

INFP, pretty sure 1w2. I have a lot of mental chatter, but for me it's always stream of consciousness, like constant tickertape. I have definitely met and spoken to people about it who have more than one 'line of thought' running at a time. For me, though, it's like a line of words running over a huge, boiling planet of emotion - why "positive thinking" has never worked for me. It's like being told that by pretending this giant apple isn't taking up most of the room, the apple will go away. I am sorry, the apple is there and it is still there when I ignore it. I must focus on other ways to remove the apple.

If I am doing something involving words the words become those words instead: reading, writing, speaking, listening. If I use my imagination the chatter is taken over by my mind's eye and ear and becomes people's voices, sometimes describing time-jumps or what they're thinking. Basically, my focus is by default on that tickertape, but I can move it onto other things, like paying attention to a flower or the sounds around me if I concentrate.

It troubles me when I don't have words for an emotion, or when an emotion becomes too strong and "swallows" the words. Then my entire being is an emotion instead. I will often space out totally then, in the middle of sentences. This is what anxiety is for me. Words dissolving, and then this feeling of dis-ease that swallows me up like a white hot pain or too sharp frequency. Words mean that I am in control of things. I can't stop them wilfully. This is why zen and meditation have never worked for me. I even have that tickertape going in my dreams.

My 'chatter' is mostly spent on planning ahead, and a subset of planning ahead, worrying about things. I have to really focus to untangle and understand my emotions. Even things like hunger, I have to think through what I'm feeling (physical hunger), plan how I'm going to get food and what I'm going to eat, and even how I'm going to prepare food or talk to the cashier in projected plans.

I run a shopping list in my mind:

"Oh god why it's so early, fuck, no, it's okay. Today you have to buy: cheese, tape, get that beer for John. Good on ya John. _Goodbye Johnny..._ don't remember the other words. Fuck that guy though. Where are my pants? My room's a mess. How did it get to this point? Get the... get the thing... okay. Cheese, tape, beer. Cheese tape beer. Got a text from Marla. Fuck, I got a text from Marla? Why... fuck was she drunk. Fuuuck."

Text: hELP I did BAD cAll me

"What...? ohh... shit..." _Begins imagining scenario where Marla speaks to the worst person she could have / imagines scenario where Marla has sex with worst person she could have / playfully imagines Marla asking me to help bury a body / imagines comforting Marla even while upset / imagines comforting Marla anyway / imagines what texts to send back / imagines her reaction to text._ Finally, sends text.

When I love someone or am worried about them my mind is taken over by projected thoughts of them / scenarios with them / memories of them. They force their way into everything. I feel like this is fucking chatter. Circa:


* *


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## Darkbloom (Aug 11, 2013)

@Entropic, yeah, I think I get it, but the wording always confuses me.
Filtering for me is...filtering lol, it's putting a filter over your thoughts before you consciously think and then you think and talk/write at the same time as thinking but it's the words you already thought through(not consciously)

Been paying attention to my thoughts yesterday because of this thread, and I noticed that after doing something really stupid(which I did yesterday) I sometimes kinda wonder "Hm, what was I thinking?" and I realized I was not really thinking, at least not _thinking_ thinking, I just did it because it felt like a good idea atm, yeah, probably based off some thoughts but I can only guess what those thoughts were, which I often do, come up with something that should make sense but isn't really how I remember things happening. Tbh I don't truly remember most of my decision making process even with big decisions, I just kinda decide and then make sense of it.


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## Ace Face (Nov 13, 2011)

Entropic said:


> Well, obviously everyone thinks, but my impression of mental chatter is that some people pay more conscious attention to their thoughts than others, for the same reason some people experience to "live in their heads". I don't understand either statement and what it means or feels like, hence the OP.
> 
> I personally pay very little attention to what goes on in my head. I usually can't recall what I've been thinking about if I've been thinking at all.


I have had to practice paying attention to what's going on in my head. I genuinely like letting my mind run wherever it may, as it usually doesn't go to unhealthy places. Then again, there have been times in which I let my mind run away with its own thoughts, inadvertently allowing them to go unchecked which has lead to some depression and other such things. This is why I've had to make it a practice. It is vital that I check myself before I "wreck" myself. Shit can go downhill quickly if I'm not paying attention, and I loathe depression, lol.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

warning the klonopin I took for my "mental chatter" is kind of kicking in so.

My mind is constantly going! Now it depends, if I'm in a situation where my clinical anxiety (which I differentiate from existential anxiety bc I do not think I relate much to existential anxiety) is triggered, then it's just a bunch of garbage thoughts firing rapidly along a deeply engraved neural pathway and normally I don't really let it dictate my actions TOO much. Sometimes I'm more quiet because of it while I observe, usually when I'm somewhere due to obligation and not of my own accord. But if I always deliberated plans of actions to cope with anxiety, I'd be doing that constantly, and that's exhausting.

I'd prefer to just go with what feels right and let the anxiety clear up on its own, if possible.

But the chatter doesn't stop even then. When not extremely anxious, I'm still constantly evaluating what I must look like to others, how I must sound, what I'm going to say, how I feel about whatever is going on, whether or not it's irritating or boring, how depressed I am, bla bla bla. I would say I only ever SERIOUSLY plan out actions in advance when something is seriously at stake. I might think about how to be appealing while also protecting what I'd rather keep to myself because it's mine and they can't have it. By "it" I mean my thoughts and emotions. Other times, I guess I am vigilant enough to kinda plan out my actions in advance but not in a way I notice most of the time? I think so quickly...

Oh, I will plan out my actions to some degree if I'm going to be trying to get the attention of someone I'm interested in, or want to come across a certain way to them (not like a "fake" way but usually if I really want to expose certain traits that I am excited to have them see/understand because I think it will resonate etc). Then I will kinda think about how to do that... 

And then even when not anxious or self-absorbed, I dunno how to explain it but my mind is still chattering away all the time. About whatever I'm currently interested in, different concepts, story ideas, other day dreams (the latter two are kinda self-absorbed still). But I would say more often than not the chattering is somehow kept "separate" from my actions, I mean, not really, it's just I'm so accustomed to it as if it's this private little demon (not even in a bad way necessarily) that I have to feed/entertain/listen to while also juggling real life, I hardly even notice anymore. Until, like I said, I see an opportunity to open up and express something that might resonate and then the chatter kinda goes both into hyperdrive and silence mode at once --- I no longer really hear chatter as chatter, rather I am acting based on everything the chatter has represented (like using the energy it has been collecting)........



Anyway yes I have mind chatter and I would define it as intense internal narrative that colors and taints and filters and paints experiences of reality.  but only when you stop to think about it. otherwise it is a given.


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## Quernus (Dec 8, 2011)

I just tried to re-read what I wrote and my screen is blurry, yes it is definitely time for bed, sorry if I make no sense but not really sorry because I'm sure sense is in there somewhere and I'm sure it's just full of wisdom and beauty!


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