# Jung & the Occult



## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

In my journeys across the internet, I discovered this hilarious gem:


> It has recently come to my attention that Jungian psychology is heavily rooted in the occult, and is completely incompatible with my faith as a Catholic. For this reason, I cannot and will not write anything more about psychological types. It has been devastating for me to realize this, as I have written prolifically on this topic for four and a half years, and have been studying it for six. My career plans, which involved intensive study of Jungian personality type, have now disappeared completely. I had a long list of ideas for topics related to psychological types to study, but I have now abandoned this list. Everything I have ever thought or written about this subject has been a lie. I apologize to all my followers and fans who have read my work in the past, but I must move on from Jungian psychology and seek out new interests. I don't expect you to agree with me or support me, although I respect my audience enough to explain my decision. Information about the MBTI is rooted in Jungian theory, which is associated with evil. I must reject the entire body of Carl Jung's theories because they are so heavily influenced by Satanic practices. Perhaps the worst thing I have done was trying to analyze Jesus and God using Jung's personality theory. MBTI truths: Author's Resignation


So, apparently Jung was crazy. I already thought so due to his "collective unconscious" theory, which is obviously affected by social influences, not just natural neurological occurrences.

LOL I don't think this guy is trolling, but if he is, he's doing a good job. What an impulsive thing to do! He has a pretty good blog on MBTI, or HAD.


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## FearAndTrembling (Jun 5, 2013)

The social influences are just wrappers on universal ideas. And some are actually pretty exact. I mean the flood myth is pretty universal for example. Human sacrifice. Of course something like human sacrifice will be portrayed differently just like art is created differently by different artists, but it is a universal concept.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Yes of course Jung dealt with the occult.
The definition of occult is hidden practices.
Jung explored a lot of hidden practices, alchemy, astrology, pagan religions and eastern systems.
Anything that isn't out and about in the mainstream could be called occult.

Occult - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It constantly baffles me that we must throw words around us and only understand them based on vague
notions of good or bad.


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## Bardo (Dec 4, 2012)

If this is trolling then 10/10, gentleman and a scholar what what, because that is some of the most enraging, stupid shit I've ever seen.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Bardo said:


> If this is trolling then 10/10, gentleman and a scholar what what, because that is some of the most enraging, stupid shit I've ever seen.


No I don't think it is trolling.
It is a very common Christian belief that all "occult" things come from the devil and are evil.
This is a very effective mechanism for keeping the flock from exploring other ideas.
Not exploring other ideas, they will stay faithful to the ideas of the church.
It is all a battle of the mind.


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## I Kant (Jan 19, 2013)

Jung helped refine some discoveries about the very human.

He didn't cover all of the aspects of humanity, but arguably his work was a very important contribution.

Jung delved into hypnotism, religions, philosophy, alchemy, the occult, and heaps of things.

He saw his collective unconscious as leaving fingerprints everywhere, and produced analysis to support this hunch.

At least, that is how I understand it.

While I disagree with some of Jung's views and conclusions, I believe he did recognize some things of significance.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

Analyzing God and Jesus with Jung's personality theory? Clearly he's the one with a problem. And atheists better not use this as an excuse to be bigoted and intolerant of theists since people like him don't represent us, not to mention many theists are individualists, not collectivists.


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## SuperDevastation (Jun 7, 2010)

hornet said:


> No I don't think it is trolling.
> It is a very common Christian belief that all "occult" things come from the devil and are evil.
> This is a very effective mechanism for keeping the flock from exploring other ideas.
> Not exploring other ideas, they will stay faithful to the ideas of the church.
> It is all a battle of the mind.


Actually it's not that common, and Christianity doesn't actually keep people fenced in, please know what you're talking about before commenting.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

SuperDevastation said:


> Actually it's not that common, and Christianity doesn't actually keep people fenced in, please know what you're talking about before commenting.


How did you manage to come to the conclution that it is not common?

Edit:
Your attitude pissed me off just so you know it. :tongue:
So I put it out here to not have to carry that burden around.
I don't care to be pissed, just because you feel the need to control my opinion.


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## Sai (Sep 3, 2012)

if arent able to take out your personality of your career then i dont think you will be able to be a good therapist. You cant impose your worldview on your patients and other individuals. About Jung, you have to be blind to not notice how he was an occultist.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Sai said:


> if arent able to take out your personality of your career then i dont think you will be able to be a good therapist. You cant impose your worldview on your patients and other individuals. About Jung, you have to be blind to not notice how he was an occultist.


Sure he falls under that definition, but what does that really say about him?
That he followed Satan?
That only makes sense if you believe in the Christian God.
Otherwise from a secular standpoint, all Jung where doing was immersing himself in old ideas and symbols.
Trying to understand how it all fit together.


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

FearAndTrembling said:


> The social influences are just wrappers on universal ideas. And some are actually pretty exact. I mean the flood myth is pretty universal for example.


I say that the flood myth is not biologically printed onto our minds, but that, when it originated, humans were close enough that the story propagated through all cultures/societies, to be handed down from parent to child for millennia. As humans migrated to different continents, it gives the illusion that it is biologically-based. I mean, once the story is written, like in the Bible, it can last forever (if people continue to read it).



SuperDevastation said:


> Analyzing God and Jesus with Jung's personality theory? Clearly he's the one with a problem.


I think that, if God and Jesus were able to be analyzed with Jungian types, it would prove their non-existence as supernatural beings. If God is perfect, he has no weaknesses. Calling myself a thinker means that I have a weakness for emotions. Calling myself a feeler means that I have a weakness for logic. If God has a weakness, then he isn't God, but only a god. To claim that God is perfect means that he is inhuman, and I don't know whether that's comforting or frightening, but I don't want to pull this thread too deep into religious discussion.



hornet said:


> Otherwise from a secular standpoint, all Jung where doing was immersing himself in old ideas and symbols.
> Trying to understand how it all fit together.


The same thing ANY religious person does. Religion is meant to understand that which has not been explained.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

dalton.thompson said:


> The same thing ANY religious person does. Religion is meant to understand that which has not been explained.


Yeah sure you could say it that way.
I would be of the opinion that it is meant to help people forget that there is a lack of understanding.
Cause it feels to terrifying to most people to be confronted directly with vastness of the unknown.
I say that only cause I have a certain ideal about understanding being about looking for truth.
And to me religious understanding seems to be one of avoidance.

It is hard to skirt around this theme without it becoming a religious flamewar.
You voice your opinion and suddenly some generalization is an attack on someones faith.

When you read Jungs books.
Like "Answer to Job" or "Aion" you realize that you can't discuss Jung openly without pissing
off most people of the Christian faith automatically.
The reaction is just as explosive *every single time.*

So I just accept that most Christians dabbling in MBTI, *would run if they knew what Jung really said.*
Cause most hardly go further than the cute little "Psychological types"


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## Fievel (Jul 9, 2013)

Yes Jung dabbled in the Occult, and certainly held views that would be quite contrary to Christian thinking. Whether that means MBTI is tainted altogether is another issue in my view. I think what often needs to happen in such cases is to tread carefully and engage with the material in order to derive a more genuinely Christian understanding of the material. 

Here's examples of such: Jungian-Christian Dialogue

Here's one chapter from a book featured on the above link concerning a Typological profile of St. John of the Cross as a Ni-dom: St. John of the Cross and Dr. C.G. Jung, Part III


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## Fievel (Jul 9, 2013)

If I may offer a parallel situation, I was recently discussing the work of Valentin Tomberg and his _Meditations on the Tarot_, which sought to devise a Christian understanding of Tarot, and how it would differ from the typical Occult understanding. Summarized here:


> By means of 22 meditations, in the form of "letters to an unknown friend", the anonymous author attempts to assimilate his vast store of "esoteric" knowledge, gleaned from years of spiritual training in the more serious New Age groups, within the orthodox Catholic vision of faith. *The Tarot cards are used, not for divination, but as symbolic encapsulations of the wisdom he has leant. "The High priestess warns us of the danger of Gnosticism in teaching the discipline of true gnosis. The Empress evokes the dangers of mediumship and magic in revealing to us the mysteries of scared magic. The Emperor warns us of the will-to-power and teaches us the power of the Cross."*
> 
> Hans Urs von Balthasar and the Tarot: A Review of "Meditations on the Tarot" by Anonymous (Valentin Tomberg) | Stratford Caldecott


So there is a possible Christian understanding of the "occult", largely built on the premise that it represents certain hidden forces, symbols, and archetypes derived from God rather than magical forces in the world.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Peguy said:


> Yes Jung dabbled in the Occult, and certainly held views that would be quite contrary to Christian thinking. Whether that means MBTI is tainted altogether is another issue in my view. I think what often needs to happen in such cases is to tread carefully and engage with the material in order to derive a more genuinely Christian understanding of the material.
> 
> Here's examples of such: Jungian-Christian Dialogue
> 
> Here's one chapter from a book featured on the above link concerning a Typological profile of St. John of the Cross as a Ni-dom: St. John of the Cross and Dr. C.G. Jung, Part III


Well I guess it comes down to perspective.
If you believe that God really excist and that hence also Satan excists as real entities.
Then everything derived from dealing with *ideas derived from Satans sphere* would be tainted.

*Deleted a whole lot of stuff that would super offend every fullblood Christian reading it.
I don't have the time nor patience to deal with the ensuing flamewar.


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## Fievel (Jul 9, 2013)

hornet said:


> Well I guess it comes down to perspective.
> If you believe that God really excist and that hence also Satan excists as real entities.
> Then everything derived from dealing with *ideas derived from Satans sphere* would be tainted.


Not necessarily. A common Christian understanding is that there's good and evil in the world, and there's a true and a false understanding of things. I demonstrated above an example of how the occult can be properly understood from a Christian perspective, giving the example of an orthodox Catholic's understanding of the Tarot. 

It's often said the Devil knows and cites scriptures too. Which is correct. Now does that mean scriptures is bad, or is his interpretation of it bad? The key is not to throw out scriptures but understand scriptures properly in order to guard against the Devil's misinterpretations. Same basic principle here. All truth comes from God.

Not only that, but Medieval people had their own system of temperament and personality classification, so the basic idea is not inherently un-Christian.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

Peguy said:


> Not necessarily. A common Christian understanding is that there's good and evil in the world, and there's a true and a false understanding of things. I demonstrated above an example of how the occult can be properly understood from a Christian perspective, giving the example of an orthodox Catholic's understanding of the Tarot.
> 
> It's often said the Devil knows and cites scriptures too. Which is correct. Now does that mean scriptures is bad, or is his interpretation of it bad? The key is not to throw out scriptures but understand scriptures properly in order to guard against the Devil's misinterpretations. Same basic principle here. All truth comes from God.
> 
> Not only that, but Medieval people had their own system of temperament and personality classification, so the basic idea is not inherently un-Christian.


It doesn't really matter what it says in the Bible. 
Nor how orthodox this or that Christianity interprets it.
If God is a real entity he decides if you have been tainted by sin.
If he decides that your dabblings with MBTI was too corrupting, well you will burn for it.
It doesn't matter how you interpret it abstractly, to hell you go.
*If God is real, this is no thought experiment anymore.*


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## Dalton (Jun 10, 2013)

Peguy said:


> It's often said the Devil knows and cites scriptures too. Which is correct. Now does that mean scriptures is bad, or is his interpretation of it bad? The key is not to throw out scriptures but understand scriptures properly in order to guard against the Devil's misinterpretations. Same basic principle here. All truth comes from God.


I don't want to get too off track, but how SHOULD I interpret God-sponsored infanticide and abortions in the Bible, such as Hosea 13:16? Obviously I am under hold of the Devil, because I think that this paints God as a cruel maniac. The children were too young to know what sin is, or not even born yet, and God was ordering that they be "dashed on the ground" and "ripped" from their mothers wombs. That doesn't sound like the same loving God of the New Testament.


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## Inveniet (Aug 21, 2009)

dalton.thompson said:


> I don't want to get too off track, but how SHOULD I interpret God-sponsored infanticide and abortions in the Bible, such as Hosea 13:16? Obviously I am under hold of the Devil, because I think that this paints God as a cruel maniac. The children were too young to know what sin is, or not even born yet, and God was ordering that they be "dashed on the ground" and "ripped" from their mothers wombs. That doesn't sound like the same loving God of the New Testament.


My two cents is that the Council of Nicaea was just a bunch of misguided hippies.
God might still be that angry and vengeful.
We have no guarantees that it was actually God who orcestrated that event.
Maybe the new testament means nothing.
All we have is this hippie son saying.



> Yo guys my Dad is much cooler now. Chill!
> I know he was real mad in the past and stuff, but it is over now.
> Took anger management course and stuff.
> I know he has changed his mind a lot too in the past.
> But he has changed bro, now he is fly and willing to try.


I mean common...
God could easily be like.



> WTF you guys elected Bush junior for president?
> Fuck all you bitches! All deals are off!


He is God. Who is going to hold him accountable?
He could just hit the undo button and be like.



> Hmm that didn't work, let us try that again,
> and next time, I'll leave out that damn three of knowledge.


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## nonnaci (Sep 25, 2011)

Read
Answer to Job - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
or 
http://www.jmm.org.au/articles/4801.htm
http://www.cgjungpage.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=727&Itemid=40


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