# Dear Future Husband and other trainwrecks



## Psychophant (Nov 29, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> That's not how it works. You see, if someone says something someone else doesn't like, then the offending person must be punished.
> 
> Feels > reals.


I think you're failing to distinguish between criticism of a piece of art, and demand for punitive action.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Yomiel said:


> I think you're failing to distinguish between criticism of a piece of art, and demand for punitive action.



Or you don't realize how much certain groups work towards censorship of things that they don't like.

Whether it be music, television, or just random websites on the internet.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Cheveyo said:


> Or you don't realize how much certain groups work towards censorship of things that they don't like.
> 
> Whether it be music, television, or just random websites on the internet.


Uhhhh...I'm not a group, I'm not pro-censorship, and I sometimes feel very annoyed that I'm part of a generation where having critical thinking skills, standards or ethics automatically make me "intolerant" or associated with some extremist group. This is the grand delusion that both far left liberals and right wing so called libertarians suffer, and it's comical because they diametrically oppose one another. It's like a post modern shit sandwich.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

By the way, I now think Meghan Trainor is definitely Fe...I listened to her album, and I am now of the opinion that she's probably an ESTP or ExFJ. I found her insistence that her daddy knows she's a good girl on a song called Walkashame undoubtedly Fe. I can't fathom an Fi type insisting something so inauthentic and meaningless in terms of traditional morality and gender roles on a song about drunken casual sex. I don't think it's possible, I think any Fi type would find the sheer hypocrisy, lack of rationality or meaning in such a pathetic stab at saving moral public face individually impossible, just too inauthentic to even mutter...the absurdity of it actually made me have a slightly lower opinion of her. Not for having casual sex, but for needing to fill the song with wink wink nudge nudge "we" all do this and "I'm a good girl"...if she's a feminist, she's an insanely confused one, and it reeks of someone wanting to fit in or be normal socially on all levels, and thereby having no clear values.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Thalassa said:


> Uhhhh...I'm not a group, I'm not pro-censorship, and I sometimes feel very annoyed that I'm part of a generation where having critical thinking skills, standards or ethics automatically make me "intolerant" or associated with some extremist group. This is the grand delusion that both far left liberals and right wing so called libertarians suffer, and it's comical because they diametrically oppose one another. It's like a post modern shit sandwich.



I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about SJWs and the like.

Hey, on the bright side, you're not a guy.
So you have to work extra hard to be called a misogynist.


You know what's fun? Being called a leftist by the right wingers, and a right winger by the left. It seems that if you don't agree 100% with everything one side says, you're obviously one of those stupid <insert political slur>.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Cheveyo said:


> I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about SJWs and the like.
> 
> Hey, on the bright side, you're not a guy.
> So you have to work extra hard to be called a misogynist.
> ...


Why are you talking about SJWs in reference to my criticizing the Dear Future Husband video for making it seem like the song is about feminism. The song alone is fun and catchy, I like her sound mostly, and she has a right to be a bossy woman if she likes, I just balked at the idea that she's making a satire of gender roles (because she appears to imagine she's a feminist) when the song is not about feminism but actually dominating her partner emotionally or sexually. 

It appears now to be a theme on the album entire, like hey I'm all like feminism but actually I'm just a bossy little girl who cares if her daddy thinks she's good. Her cred as as a feminist is poor, and it's confusing at best, giving people like you something to cry about because you believe it actually is feminism, at worst. 

You are a misogynist, a very loud and proud one, and I can't figure out why you are trying to turn this thread into your platform about the evils of radfems, censorship and SJWs. You just stereotype and don't actually think, so it's ironic you think it's funny people categorize YOU politically. All I observed about you is your blatant unapologetic woman hating, and your whining that I dared to criticize a piece of art by a political or ethical metric, which you imagined immediately made me a hysterical Tipper Gore Nazi or something, since we women just get upset for no reason according to you.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Thalassa said:


> Why are you talking about SJWs in reference to my criticizing the Dear Future Husband video for making it seem like the song is about feminism. The song alone is fun and catchy, I like her sound mostly, and she has a right to be a bossy woman if she likes, I just balked at the idea that she's making a satire of gender roles (because she appears to imagine she's a feminist) when the song is not about feminism but actually dominating her partner emotionally or sexually.
> 
> It appears now to be a theme on the album entire, like hey I'm all like feminism but actually I'm just a bossy little girl who cares if her daddy thinks she's good. Her cred as as a feminist is poor, and it's confusing at best, giving people like you something to cry about because you believe it actually is feminism, at worst.
> 
> You are a misogynist, a very loud and proud one, and I can't figure out why you are trying to turn this thread into your platform about the evils of radfems, censorship and SJWs. You just stereotype and don't actually think, so it's ironic you think it's funny people categorize YOU politically. All I observed about you is your blatant unapologetic woman hating, and your whining that I dared to criticize a piece of art by a political or ethical metric, which you imagined immediately made me a hysterical Tipper Gore Nazi or something, since we women just get upset for no reason according to you.


I should really get to know people by their names and not their avatars.


That's where the conversation led.
The same people who would be up in arms about this video are the ones I'm talking about. That's what feminism has evolved into. That's who complains about songs like that. So when you complain about people losing their crap over something innocuous, you're complaining about feminists. You will, of course, do everything you can to deny it. However, they've become a mirror of the extreme right. They demand people censor themselves, change or apologize for their opinions. They shame people who don't conform to their ideals. It's just the same kind of moral crusader, but driven by different ideals. They're the ones who claim Blurred Lines is about rape and supporting rape.


It's not any different than the people who claimed Marilyn Manson was satanic and caused kids to kill themselves. It's not any different than those who claimed pot caused people to go on killing/rape sprees. It's the same line of thought that causes people to claim movies make people violent and video games make people misogynists.


To put it bluntly: You people have become the left's version of the right's tea party.


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## Ik3 (Mar 22, 2015)

Gotta say, I agree with your initial post 100% Thalassa. 

Feminism as a concept for the empowerment of women is awesome. I love women. Especially ones who are self-assured and smart. 

Feminism as a practice... like most things, is somewhat disappointing. Seems like most women who want gender equality end up being bottle-necked into going along with the mainstream, even if their initial intentions and views were on the right track. 

The problem I see is that because of a few bad apples in the basket, Feminism has been labeled by the media and society as gender INEQUALITY: Where women are bad-ass princesses who should be as loud and brutish and opinionated as possible and inferior men should lay down at their feet and feel lucky that they got the opportunity to get stepped on.

Feminism started off as a movement for GENDER EQUALITY, but, as I mentioned before, it has been tarnished and twisted by mainstream media. I think that the majority of women who claim to be feminists still believe in the root-principles of feminism (at least I hope so) but I think that modern feminists need a new angle.

The word "Feminist" has been painted in such a negative light, that I find that those who still rally behind it are doing themselves a disservice. 

A new label is needed, for fuck's sake! 

How about.. "Equal Empowerment Supporter" or ... "Equality Activist"... 

Yeah, I'm not a damn political lobbyist, so I don't make up cute labels, but a re-furbished item is still the same item, just restored to it's prior beauty and function. 

BAM.


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## Children Of The Bad Revolution (Oct 8, 2013)

Ik3 said:


> Feminism as a practice... like most things, is somewhat disappointing. Seems like most women who want gender equality end up being bottle-necked into going along with the mainstream, even if their initial intentions and views were on the right track.


Yeah, it was extremely disappointing when women got the right to vote and gain reproductive rights.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Thalassa said:


> Some people think so because of the skinny bitches line, but she follows it by I'm just playing, I know you think you're fat. I think a lot of people took it as bashing slim women, but I don't think it's that at all.


That's not _my_ issue with that song. My issue with 'All About That Bass' is merely that it's yet another video intimating that it's okay to be as big as you wanna be (Aka possibly obese and probably unhealthy). 

Now, Meghan Trainor was not obese when she wrote that song, merely overweight-- And there's nothing wrong with being overweight-- Provided that you actually take time to exercise and eat healthy, you might have a higher life expectancy than someone heavier _or _lighter than you.

But, the message in the song seems to be about accepting every size, everyone is beautiful, blah blah blah. It's an... Idealistic message, to say the least. 

It gives women something to wrap around themselves to comfort themselves about their unhealthy lifestyle, and an excuse not to change. It could be argued that any song could be used for evil, but this one is promoting something that is cropping up more and more.

If I didn't know any better, I'd think the government and/or media wants us all to be fat and complacent, and as happy and entertained as possible, so that we're easily controlled.

The messages that are being sent seem to be such that: It's either about how horrible people are for being too skinny, or how people aren't happy with their weight, when they should be.

But, honestly, some people _shouldn't _be happy with their weight (Not necessarily about body image or pride). 

When I see an obese woman in entertainment media saying that she's proud of her body, and her weight, and she wouldn't change it for the world: I see a woman who's given up on eating healthy and exercising, and accepting debilitating health issues, a shorter life span, and possibly a lot of pain and suffering. _More _pain and suffering than it'd take to change their lifestyle and adopt healthy habits.

The weird feminist issues in _this _song are another example of what's flying around in the media as well. Women seem to want to be _more _equal than men these days. I'm not going to write much about that, I've already spent so much time on the other thing, but I'm sure others will echo my sentiments in this thread.


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## koalaroo (Nov 25, 2011)

Word Dispenser said:


> That's not _my_ issue with that song. My issue with 'All About That Bass' is merely that it's yet another video intimating that it's okay to be as big as you wanna be (Aka possibly obese and probably unhealthy).


It's not intimating that it's OK to be as big as you want; it's about self-acceptance and self-love no matter your size.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

koalaroo said:


> It's not intimating that it's OK to be as big as you want; it's about self-acceptance and self-love no matter your size.


It's very easily misconstrued because of the focus on body size in the song. Even the words 'skinny' and 'fat' are thrown into the song. 

Sure, you can interpret this song as being about self-acceptance and self-love, but the songwriter sure didn't seem to mean that. It's a very simple song, and she's saying that she likes being big, and being big is beautiful, and everyone is perfect, even if they're big. Or everyone is perfect. There's a _lot _of ways you can throw this, and none of them are good.

And besides, being fat shouldn't be something we love. Neither should being underweight. We should all do our best to strive to be healthy.

It may be important to accept and 'love' yourself, but it's _VERY _important to accept and 'love' yourself _enough_ to take care of yo' damn self.

And 'it' shouldn't be _about _weight or size at all. Everyone's running around saying, "I need to lose weight," All the time, but their weight _probably _isn't the issue. 

They probably should just be exercising more, and eating more vegetables and complex carbohydrates so that they feel healthy, can breathe easy, and be more energetic.

The focus, no matter what, seems to be on size, or weight. This songwriter is guilty of that just as much as anyone else in the media. 

The focus _should _be on health. And it isn't.


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## Mair (Feb 17, 2014)

As you said , this is satire. It is not meant to be taken seriously.
If anything I think the song is about making fun of some spoiled women who think that way.


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## Cheveyo (Nov 19, 2010)

Ik3 said:


> A new label is needed, for fuck's sake!
> 
> How about.. "Equal Empowerment Supporter" or ... "Equality Activist"...
> 
> ...



Egalitarianism.
But trying to get people to call themselves egalitarian is like trying to make a toddler eat their vegetables.



Feminism was started by rich white women who wanted to have both the privileges they had as women and the privileges their rich husbands had. Even back then they had their man haters and bigots. They didn't give a crap about non-white women at the start. They ended up using minorities because they realized it would help their cause. They latched onto the civil rights movement because they realized they could ride it to their desired destination.


The problem isn't that there's a few bad apples. The problem is that there are A LOT of bad apples and everyone else keeps denying they exist or that they exist to the extent they actually do. By convincing themselves these bad apples aren't actually bad, they allow themselves to follow them without question. Because no feminist would EVER do anything bad. That would make them "not feminist".


Being a feminist is like being in an abusive relationship. You convince yourself it's not that bad. Those people telling you all these horrible stories are just jealous or stupid. They don't know feminism like you do. Sure, feminism might make claims like "if it weren't for me, you'd be nothing. YOU NEED ME!" But everyone else is just taking things too literally or out of context and they're ignoring all the good things feminism is doing for you. Sure, feminism might have attacked a guy over a shirt, and sure someone might have lost their job because a feminist eavesdropped on a private conversation and overheard a crude joke. But that doesn't mean feminism is all bad. People just need to get to know feminism better and they'll realize just how wonderful it is.

It usually takes something really messed up to cause a feminist to see reality.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Well this went to hell quickly.

My opinion on Megan Trainor is this: feminism is becoming a more socially acceptable platform. In ways, this is good. Feminism was a dirty, evil word for centuries. The internet gave more widespread awareness of feminism, and allowed people to see feminism in a new way. People are realizing feminism isn't always radical or extremist, so more and more people are accepting and adopting the ideology. 

More people getting on the feminist bandwagon means more equality for the genders. One person cannot change a nation alone. It takes a group of people to wake up a nation. The problem is that now that feminism is becoming socially acceptable, we have women like Megan Trainor who likely would have never touched feminism in it's dark ages capitalizing on the ideology. Everyone else is doing it, so alright, I'll write shitty songs about it and muddle the message. It's mainstream feminism that's dolloped in sweet frosting with candy rose petals. It never gets to the heart of the issue. Feminism is not an easy ideology to adopt. You're going to get criticism. But if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen rather than making brownies to make your ideology socially palatable. We'll never get the results that we want if we do.

All About That Bass excited me the first time I heard it, because it's about time we have a body positive pop song. Then I noticed it received criticism, and when I looked into it, the obvious dawned on me. It bothered me Megan isn't technically overweight, but I ignored it. Realizing Megan is getting her self esteem from her mother and the fact that men still like her did. We all get our self esteem from other sources. That's Megan's deal. But this is the same message women are delivered day after day. It's ok, cuz the boys think it's hot! The worst part is it's wrapped in a feminist package. Pretty insidious. It's a nice start, but it needs some work. "It doesn't matter what boys think of my size cuz I'm still hot as fuck" is more like it. 

I'll disagree with the skinny shaming argument. For me, it was more like, "Hey don't think that way, you're still perfect". It was a nod to the skinny girls that's she in on their body issues too.

As for her new song, I see no issue. It's a satire, as mentioned. I just think Megan's brand of feminism is watered down for the masses, and I hate it.

Btw, when I said shitty, I meant lyric wise. Her music is catchy. Enough said.


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## LibertyPrime (Dec 17, 2010)

o.o ppl take life way too seriously imo.


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## castigat (Aug 26, 2012)

Ik3 said:


> A new label is needed, for fuck's sake!
> 
> How about.. "Equal Empowerment Supporter" or ... "Equality Activist"...


Or just. . .egalitarian.
Or humanitarian. 
One of those.

For some reason, most people have reacted to my self-labeling as egalitarian as me being the devil though, so.


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## Ik3 (Mar 22, 2015)

Yes, I understand that those labels exist, what I was trying to point out is that the word "Feminism" has been twisted into a negative thing by mainstream media, and they should come up with something fresh and new to escape that.


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## castigat (Aug 26, 2012)

Ik3 said:


> Yes, I understand that those labels exist, what I was trying to point out is that the word "Feminism" has been twisted into a negative thing by mainstream media, and they should come up with something fresh and new to escape that.


The problem is that I don't think it's _necessary_ to make up something new when things already exist, you know? It's their choice, of course, to create a new term for it, but with all things considered, if they truly do wish for equality of all, they're probably egalitarian.

Now, the other people that think those terms are somehow grounds for disdain? They can make a new label. XD


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## Ik3 (Mar 22, 2015)

Yeah, I see what you're saying. 

I'm a problem solver though. If someone speaks out about an issue, I try to come up with a solution. It's just my nature. 

Might not be the best solution possible, but taking action is better than pointing out the flaws in something and not offering up any way to fix it.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Word Dispenser said:


> That's not _my_ issue with that song. My issue with 'All About That Bass' is merely that it's yet another video intimating that it's okay to be as big as you wanna be (Aka possibly obese and probably unhealthy).
> 
> Now, Meghan Trainor was not obese when she wrote that song, merely overweight-- And there's nothing wrong with being overweight-- Provided that you actually take time to exercise and eat healthy, you might have a higher life expectancy than someone heavier _or _lighter than you.
> 
> ...


Meghan Trainor wasn't overweight in that video, she's not overweight. Adele was overweight. The song is about not being a size 2 or adherence to unrealistic runway standards, the only obese person in the video was a man, and they of course paired him with an underweight woman. 

I also don't find what she said about having an eating disorder offensive either. Some people got very offended that she said she tried to have an eating disorder but got too hungry. ..and that's reality, some teenage girls and even grown women feel bad that they can't seem to be able to starve themselves, and that's weird.


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## aendern (Dec 28, 2013)

This thread has gotten so derailed 

I personally don't understand the cares about her music. I mean, if you don't like it, you have every right in the world to not listen to it.

I didn't like Blurred Lines. I thought it was disgusting. I didn't listen to it.


It was so easy. My life was a breeze. 10/10 would do again.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

hoopla said:


> Well this went to hell quickly.
> 
> My opinion on Megan Trainor is this: feminism is becoming a more socially acceptable platform. In ways, this is good. Feminism was a dirty, evil word for centuries. The internet gave more widespread awareness of feminism, and allowed people to see feminism in a new way. People are realizing feminism isn't always radical or extremist, so more and more people are accepting and adopting the ideology.
> 
> ...


Yes all good points. I actually wasn't bothered by her saying men liked her butt, because it's true some men like that, I figured it was positive, it was only later when other people pointed it out that it was like well yes ok she's still making it about sex, but that's important too, you know, to acknowledge that sexual attractiveness is relative for different people. But I really enjoyed the dancing big man, like look not only is this obese man exercising, but he can dance! Then I started getting disturbed by people saying Meghan Trainor is overweight when she looks pretty normal to me, just breasts and hips, she's not "big" and in fact when you consider how much weight camera adds, in person she's obviously not fat, she's very proportionate. One or two of her dancers are actually heavier than she is. And the model they chose has so little body fat that she barely has breasts. ..and yet there's still someone in this thread so concerned about Meghan Trainors weight they are masking it as a health issue. She looks pretty healthy to me, though I do agree with the overall sentiment that people shouldn't be encouraged to be unhealthy, inactive or obese.


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## Ik3 (Mar 22, 2015)

Thalassa said:


> Yes all good points. I actually wasn't bothered by her saying men liked her butt, because it's true some men like that, I figured it was positive, it was only later when other people pointed it out that it was like well yes ok she's still making it about sex, but that's important too, you know, to acknowledge that sexual attractiveness is relative for different people. But I really enjoyed the dancing big man, like look not only is this obese man exercising, but he can dance! Then I started getting disturbed by people saying Meghan Trainor is overweight when she looks pretty normal to me, just breasts and hips, she's not "big" and in fact when you consider how much weight camera adds, in person she's obviously not fat, she's very proportionate. One or two of her dancers are actually heavier than she is. And the model they chose has so little body fat that she barely has breasts. ..and yet there's still someone in this thread so concerned about Meghan Trainors weight they are masking it as a health issue. She looks pretty healthy to me, though I do agree with the overall sentiment that people shouldn't be encouraged to be unhealthy, inactive or obese.


Yeah, that's a fine line there.. How do we tell young women that having a healthy weight is ok, without making them think they can eat fast food all and not be active, because, well, "guys will still think I'm hot, so fuck it." 

I think that men's opinions should be a little further down the line in terms of why it's "Ok to be overweight." 

I agree that Megan is not overweight. She's healthy, and I'm glad she's comfortable in her skin, but some folks are using her lyrics as a springboard to justify not making healthy decisions.

Women should want to be healthy and active, not because of the potential to be skinny or appealing to men, but because being healthy and active means you're gonna have a happier life, period.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

...
How did this go from gender issues to musical issues..
to..
Interpretations of the lyrics in "Super Bass"?
Does Mrs. Potatoface's song even have Bass? Does it wub in a super way?
I'm hypothesizing two derails make rerail. Chance of success is low, chance of hilarity is high though.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Ik3 said:


> Yeah, that's a fine line there.. How do we tell young women that having a healthy weight is ok, without making them think they can eat fast food all and not be active, because, well, "guys will still think I'm hot, so fuck it."
> 
> I think that men's opinions should be a little further down the line in terms of why it's "Ok to be overweight."
> 
> ...


Everyone in the video is dancing. I don't see her song or video as a springboard for anyone to be unhealthy any more than I see Marilyn Mansons Smells Like Children album a springboard for Columbine. People can make weird loose associations all the time. Only when songs are blatantly labelled Cop Killer or depict gruesome scenarios like Eminems Kim do I start to see how a person can potentially actually be a bad influence.

It's weird that no one holds Sir Mix a Lot or Niki Minaj accountable. Or even Prince. In Get Off Prince says he likes em fat and proud. I mean come on, I don't think people liking big butts or tits is the reason for our cultural obesity issues.

It's about as far fetched as Dear Future Husband being real fodder against feminism for MRA types.


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## Ik3 (Mar 22, 2015)

haha I keep thinking I'm agreeing with people here, and then they disagree with my comments. It's probably because I'm the only male commenting (JOKE! Simmer down)

I agree that this video/song in no way compares to some of those you listed, "Kim" or "Smells Like Children"

I just feel that people have a tendency to look for justifications and validations for what they already know deep down is undisciplined/bad behavior, as a way of taking away some of the shame and low self esteem they already feel.


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## Deadly Decorum (Feb 23, 2014)

Thalassa said:


> Yes all good points. I actually wasn't bothered by her saying men liked her butt, because it's true some men like that, I figured it was positive, it was only later when other people pointed it out that it was like well yes ok she's still making it about sex, but that's important too, you know, to acknowledge that sexual attractiveness is relative for different people. But I really enjoyed the dancing big man, like look not only is this obese man exercising, but he can dance! Then I started getting disturbed by people saying Meghan Trainor is overweight when she looks pretty normal to me, just breasts and hips, she's not "big" and in fact when you consider how much weight camera adds, in person she's obviously not fat, she's very proportionate. One or two of her dancers are actually heavier than she is. And the model they chose has so little body fat that she barely has breasts. ..and yet there's still someone in this thread so concerned about Meghan Trainors weight they are masking it as a health issue. She looks pretty healthy to me, though I do agree with the overall sentiment that people shouldn't be encouraged to be unhealthy, inactive or obese.


I viewed her line about booty in a different way. I considered that idea too, since there's nothing wrong w/ sexualizing yourself for men (it's fun as hell and sometimes I want recognition or to pick up guys lol) It's the social conditioning or notion that we should is what I find damaging. There's multiple ways of perceiving the message, pm, but given the message rampant in society that women *should* serve to flatter the boys (or to have low self esteem -_-), I view it as harmful. 

I wanted to tell Meghan "girl it doesn't matter if you're a size two you're not even fat". Kinda rubbed me the wrong way to view a body positive song sung by a thin women. Not that thin women have no business being allies (they do), but the privileged shouldn't have the first or largest voice.

I pm disagree with all the fat comments but that's another story and it's late. I'll elaborate tomorrow.


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

Ik3 said:


> haha I keep thinking I'm agreeing with people here, and then they disagree with my comments. It's probably because I'm the only male commenting (JOKE! Simmer down)
> 
> I agree that this video/song in no way compares to some of those you listed, "Kim" or "Smells Like Children"
> 
> I just feel that people have a tendency to look for justifications and validations for what they already know deep down is undisciplined/bad behavior, as a way of taking away some of the shame and low self esteem they already feel.


Yeah but like. ..there have been tons of messages to women for fifty years that they should not eat, be as thin as possible, anorexia actually became an epidemic for about twenty years, my mother was anorexic, she got down to eighty something pounds after she had me, and this was pretty typical from about the late 70s throughout the 80s, but people were ridiculously thin during the disco era, I think this was partly cocaine chic, look at Lorraine Newman on Saturday Night Live she was like a twenty five year old with the body of a seventy year old woman. Then in the 90s, Kate Moss, heroin chic, thst woman is a ravaged drug addict now, thin does not always equal health either...so...yeah you can tell people who try to misuse the song to justify obesity what you think, but this one song by an average weight woman is hardly that alarming &#55357;&#56837;...that's why I thought what's his face was overreacting to my thread, I wasn't calling for censorship or think this song is to blame for effed up feminism, I just know Personality Cafe is a hotbed of menninsts who are dying to misuse this song&#55357;&#56853;...plus it annoyed me that apparently lots of dumb people on Twitter were offended by the satire, and I just wanted to say, no actually here's the real problem. *shrug *


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## Thalassa (Jun 10, 2010)

hoopla said:


> I viewed her line about booty in a different way. I considered that idea too, since there's nothing wrong w/ sexualizing yourself for men (it's fun as hell and sometimes I want recognition or to pick up guys lol) It's the social conditioning or notion that we should is what I find damaging. There's multiple ways of perceiving the message, pm, but given the message rampant in society that women *should* serve to flatter the boys (or to have low self esteem -_-), I view it as harmful.
> 
> I wanted to tell Meghan "girl it doesn't matter if you're a size two you're not even fat". Kinda rubbed me the wrong way to view a body positive song sung by a thin women. Not that thin women have no business being allies (they do), but the privileged shouldn't have the first or largest voice.
> 
> I pm disagree with all the fat comments but that's another story and it's late. I'll elaborate tomorrow.


Oh no I agree there's definitely a good point there that accepting your body for men is still not really feminism, and the mom/men thing is other esteem. 

And what you are saying kind of counters what I k3 was saying about people using it to justify obesity, but there's also just that she's not even fat, so this actually suggests the opposite. Thanks for your input.


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## Word Dispenser (May 18, 2012)

Thalassa said:


> Meghan Trainor wasn't overweight in that video, she's not overweight. Adele was overweight. The song is about not being a size 2 or adherence to unrealistic runway standards, the only obese person in the video was a man, and they of course paired him with an underweight woman.
> 
> I also don't find what she said about having an eating disorder offensive either. Some people got very offended that she said she tried to have an eating disorder but got too hungry. ..and that's reality, some teenage girls and even grown women feel bad that they can't seem to be able to starve themselves, and that's weird.


From what I've read, when she made that video, according to BMI, she was overweight. 

But, as said, that doesn't really matter. And it doesn't really matter if she was _normal_ weight during the video. That wasn't my point.

You can be overweight and be eating an unprocessed, nutritious diet, and exercising enough to maintain good health. But, you cannot say that you are healthy if you are _obese_.

Obesity _is _unhealthy, and showing an obese man 'shakin' it', _is _sending the message that that's a positive thing, and that it doesn't matter that he is obese. 

Now, you can 'shake it' no matter your size, that's one thing, but we should _not_ be _embracing_ poor nutrition. And, unfortunately, that _is_ a rather rampant message that's going around these days. More and more people are embracing heavier, obese bodies. 

"Big is beautiful," is, for all intents and purposes, an unhealthy message to be sending.

And for that last comment, I'm certainly not offended by her statement, and if anything, it sounds as if it were tongue-in-cheek.


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## aef8234 (Feb 18, 2012)

Word Dispenser said:


> From what I've read, when she made that video, according to BMI, she was overweight.
> 
> But, as said, that doesn't really matter. And it doesn't really matter if she was _normal_ weight during the video. That wasn't my point.
> 
> ...


Honestly, it does have some evolutionary aspects to it, adhering to some media-shit -> obesity -> less desirability to reproduction -> people resistant to media shit reproduces -> humanity becomes more resistant to media-shit.
Of course this implies this specific psychological phenomena has some sorta biological aspect, or some behavioral aspect that can be reliably taught by their birth-parents.
But hey, weirder things have been inherited via DNA before, like identical twin marraige twinsing.


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## Lady Isla (Feb 20, 2015)

emberfly said:


> This thread has gotten so derailed
> 
> I personally don't understand the cares about her music. I mean, if you don't like it, you have every right in the world to not listen to it.
> 
> ...


Best comment on this thread by far.


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## mhysa (Nov 27, 2014)

Thalassa said:


> Some people think so because of the skinny bitches line, but she follows it by I'm just playing, I know you think you're fat. I think a lot of people took it as bashing slim women, but I don't think it's that at all.


the "i'm just playing" part doesn't really come off as very sincere, though. sort of like how people will say "no offense, but" before saying something they know will offend you, like they know what they're saying is bad but you're not allowed to get angry about it. i also dislike the whole thing about how being curvy is okay because boys like it, because i think the whole "body positivity" thing should be about loving yourself simply because you deserve to. other people's opinions about the way you look shouldn't factor in at all.

but yeah, this song annoys me too. i don't really care for meghan as a pop star, honestly. based on her music and interviews, her image seems to revolve around this whole uppity "not like the other girls" attitude.



Thalassa said:


> I also don't find what she said about having an eating disorder offensive either. Some people got very offended that she said she tried to have an eating disorder but got too hungry. ..and that's reality, some teenage girls and even grown women feel bad that they can't seem to be able to starve themselves, and that's weird.


i can see why people would be offended. it comes off as insensitive and ignorant to the nature of EDs. it's not really something you "try" to have because you think it's cute to starve yourself, it's a serious mental illness. i think there's definitely a lot of pressure on women to diet, and it's easy to be down on yourself if you can't stick to one, so i agree with you there. but i think her comment trivializes actual eating disorders.

i want to make it clear that i'm not picking on you!!! lol. i like you and i'm sorry you're getting so much shit on this thread.


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## Pressed Flowers (Oct 8, 2014)

I don't see too much wrong with the song? The way that men were treated in the video seemed borderline dehumanizing and that made me uncomfortable, but I couldn't see anything direct in the song that was particularly bad. I disagree a bit -- I wouldn't say this to my future husband -- but I don't know. It just seems fun to me. 

But I have a friend who adores this song, so I am a bit blinded.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Women were going to get the vote even if feminists didn't take it upon themselves to risk their husband's freedom to get it.
> It might have happened a decade later instead of when it happened, but it would have happened. Most men were not against women having the vote. Some rich men were against anyone other than themselves having the vote.
> 
> Yes, let's all praise feminists for shit that was going to be taken care of anyway.


There are errors on both ends of the voting rights continuum: but they both lead to the same place in the end, oligarchy.
(Universal suffrage by *uninformed* or *easily demagogued* voters leads them to vote themselves largesse from the public treasury: which leads debt and debasement of the currency: which leads to servitude. Suffrage limited to the already rich and powerful leads to laws designed to enrich the rich alone, and keep everyone else down: which also leads to servitude. The extent of the voting franchise is not what matters, as it is the entirely different issue of whether the voters and politicians have enough character to look past their own short-sighted interests to sustainability of a free society.)


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Thalassa said:


> When an artist tries to be political, it then becomes political through the artists own efforts, and is subject to political as well as artistic criticism.
> 
> I agree musicians have no obligation to pander to people's ideologies and I am against censorship, but when an artist takes it upon themselves to appear political or to have a "message" then certainly we can critique their platform.


The Dixie Chicks seemed to shoot themselves in the foot with their target market in this fashion.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> Or you don't realize how much certain groups work towards censorship of things that they don't like.
> 
> Whether it be music, television, or just random websites on the internet.


Case in point -- Don Henley of the Eagles refused to license his music to ESPN once they allowed Rush Limbaugh on the air as a football commentator. And supposedly the Pretenders had a fit when a snippet of their song _My City Was Gone_ was selected by Limbaugh to be his bumper music -- I recall reading once that at one of their concerts, when they started the intro to that song, many in the audience held their cigarette lighters in the air and began shouting "Rush! Rush!" to the great discomfiture of the band.


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Thalassa said:


> Uhhhh...I'm not a group, I'm not pro-censorship, and I sometimes feel very annoyed that I'm part of a generation where having critical thinking skills, standards or ethics automatically make me "intolerant" or associated with some extremist group. This is the grand delusion that both far left liberals and right wing so called libertarians suffer, and it's comical because they diametrically oppose one another. It's like a post modern shit sandwich.


Please re-read Chevyo's post -- he didn't say you were a member of any such groups; he said you were *unaware* of them: which by definition exonerates you from being one of them, doesn't it?


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## g_w (Apr 16, 2013)

Cheveyo said:


> I should really get to know people by their names and not their avatars.
> 
> 
> That's where the conversation led.
> ...


Speaking of Manson, you know what's fun? Google for a picture of him without his stage makeup.
Insecure loser geek dweeb.


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