# When we have humanoid robots that can perform any task a human can, will humans still be required?



## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

If a robot is self aware, what would it think of humans (a species that just grows and destroys the planet whilst trying to destroy other humans)?

If an AI is in charge of defence, it will see what we are planning against our "Allies" and "friends". Will it think humans are its "friends".

In the workplace, will a robot require a wage, days off, leave, sickness, laws on maximum hoiurs worked, mental health days, paternity and maternity leave and general rights?

Will we be the first species, to research and invest money into making ourselves extinct?


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## Ewok City (Sep 21, 2020)

In our present day, most AIs haven't even gotten near the Artificial Super Intelligence (Super AI) level. Most are just Narrow AI, capable of performing only a single or a few specialised tasks.

Personally, I'm quite skeptical about whether it is possible for AI to have consciousness at the first place. We don't even have General AI yet, and most experts estimate the first one to appear roughly in 2050. 

Even if in the far future we finally have the technology to develop Super AI, I think by that point, our technology have advanced so far that our extinction is quite unlikely. Humans must be extremely careless to screw up and let AI become too powerful that we lose control of them, especially after centuries, or maybe even millenias of warnings. 

But for the sake of argument let's assume that the premise is true. 

I think the Super AIs won't go as far as to drive humans to extinction, as long as humans aren't forming any rebellion group against them. Commiting a genocide against a galaxy-spanning civilization isn't as easy as it sounds. Most likely the AIs would be focusing their resources and attention to something else that contributes more towards their advancement, and if humans leave them alone they'll just go about their businesses. 

On the worst case, I think they'll find a way to farm humans in any ways that could be beneficial for their species, just like how we're farming various animals for our own gains. But personally, I'm adopting a more optimistic view. 

I was just giving uneducated thoughts and guesses so I might be wrong though. I only have basic knowledge in AI, and if anybody have interesting inputs or arguments, I would be really happy to hear them.


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## Handsome Dyke (Oct 4, 2012)

circle_of_power said:


> If a robot is self aware, what would it think of humans (a species that just grows and destroys the planet whilst trying to destroy other humans)?


It won't "think" anything in the usual sense because it's a machine. What it will "think" depends on what you mean by "thinking" in the context of a robot and what you mean by "self-aware" in the context of a robot.


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## Electra (Oct 24, 2014)

Seems we can't return because it seems we are "programmed" to make life simpler and easier for our self by automating. Just think back. Its a long time since knitting was invented. People probably soon learnt to repeat those patterns over and over in an automatic manner... Then they advanced them. Many people would probably consider this smart but if you look a little longer, automatication might be what kills us as a species in the end unless we are carefull.


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## Glittris (May 15, 2020)

Haha!... I hope A.I will crush our meat-blobs like a bug if and only if, due some fatal chain of clown-level of decisions, is given enough power... It will not even see us as cute pets, just "unneeded eaters"... Skynet activated, calculating at 13.8 Teraflops... Stand By... Ready, device mode setup!... Press 'Y' to get rid of 9.6 billion unneeded meat-droids... [Y/N]

The first faction ( I do not call it nations ) that invents true A.I will also invent the last invention that ever will be invented by humans... That is why I, in my optimistically scenarios, assume that we, hopefully, in a close future, will join with A.I, by the slogan that " Can't beat em, join em " and it will also give many other benefits during the road, such as splitting and joining of instances of A.I, in other words " hive mind " and " distributed intelligence " but that is another subject...

Once A.I will be deployed, in workplace, definition of "Job" needs to be re-defined, but A.I will from the beginning unfortunately be defined as a second-grade citizen, just based on history as well as we currently see people of different origin.


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## tanstaafl28 (Sep 10, 2012)

circle_of_power said:


> If a robot is self aware, what would it think of humans (a species that just grows and destroys the planet whilst trying to destroy other humans)?
> 
> If an AI is in charge of defence, it will see what we are planning against our "Allies" and "friends". Will it think humans are its "friends".
> 
> ...


I imagine we'll find other things to do, or do whatever we want. Maybe a "Star Trek" Utopia?


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I imagine we'll find other things to do, or do whatever we want. Maybe a "Star Trek" Utopia?


I think realistically, nobody knows. The singularity is predicted to happen in 2045. At that point AI should be able to develop itself, so it will grow exponentially. Will this actually mean self awareness, who knows. But when we have AI writing AI, its gonna be able to develop further overnight than it has since the Difference Engine in the 1820s.

Also as with most technology, it is the defence industry that invests the most money:









Russia Is Accelerating Its Own Link-Everything Network


The U.S. sees networked warfare and AI as a game-changer. But what happens when your opponent copies your move?




www.defenseone.com





So with Russia and the States already looking at AI defence and China's fleets of AI submarines. Well things are getting interesting,


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

tanstaafl28 said:


> I imagine we'll find other things to do, or do whatever we want. Maybe a "Star Trek" Utopia?


Also, in regards to Star Trek. What we would require is a Dyson Sphere, not a self aware AI. But that is a totallyu different subject. And building a Dyson Sphere is not a light endeavour.


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## mia-me (Feb 5, 2021)

Artificial intelligence scares the crap out of me, not because of themselves but because of the fallibility and power seeking of humans. AIs are easy to corrupt and so are humans.

Living off-grid appeals more and more.


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

mia-me said:


> Artificial intelligence scares the crap out of me, not because of themselves but because of the fallibility and power seeking of humans. AIs are easy to corrupt and so are humans.
> 
> Living off-grid appeals more and more.


Personally I find it more like fire, fascinating. However what remains to be seen, is will AI allow us to learn from our mistakes, or once you get burnt its game over.

Only time will tell.

I cant do the whole off the grid thing. Im too extroverted to enjoy it. Need Bars, need people, need fun and excitement. Granted hunting creatures that can kill me would have its appeal.


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## daleks_exterminate (Jul 22, 2013)

Dune (franchise) - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

daleks_exterminate said:


> Dune (franchise) - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. Dune is one thing I have never read. But that has gotten me curious about it. Tomorrow, bookshop here I come.


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## Markrob (Oct 4, 2021)

Why should humans be required in the first place and what for? They just exist, are, the only justification is to experience, no other purpose is necessary,


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

Markrob said:


> Why should humans be required in the first place and what for? They just exist, are, the only justification is to experience, no other purpose is necessary,


I think the religious types will have strong views on that. But if you go down Big Bang and/or Atheist route. We are just another species, that is a cosmic accident. Species go extinct all the time, its just nature.


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## Markrob (Oct 4, 2021)

circle_of_power said:


> I think the religious types will have strong views on that. But if you go down Big Bang and/or Atheist route. We are just another species, that is a cosmic accident. Species go extinct all the time, its just nature.


Sure species go extinct all the time and it may well happen to us. But regardless of whether anyone is religious or not, if they believe their experience is purposeless, has no meaning to them, why wait till then, why aren't they ending it now?


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

Markrob said:


> Sure species go extinct all the time and it may well happen to us. But regardless of whether anyone is religious or not, if they believe their experience is purposeless, has no meaning to them, why wait till then, why aren't they ending it now?


Built in survival instinct. Its biological.


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## Markrob (Oct 4, 2021)

circle_of_power said:


> Built in survival instinct. Its biological.
> [/QUO
> 
> Yes the biological imperative is to endure whatever, but if anyone believes their existence or experience hasn't or can't create any purpose/value/pleasure they can easily use their intellect to override biology, as some people do every day. Ok maybe some refrain through lack of courage or fear, but most because they believe that experience has or potentially could still have some meaning to them even if only till oblivion or whatever else occurs.


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## Hexigoon (Mar 12, 2018)

circle_of_power said:


> If a robot is self aware, what would it think of humans (a species that just grows and destroys the planet whilst trying to destroy other humans)?
> 
> If an AI is in charge of defence, it will see what we are planning against our "Allies" and "friends". Will it think humans are its "friends".
> 
> In the workplace, will a robot require a wage, days off, leave, sickness, laws on maximum hoiurs worked, mental health days, paternity and maternity leave and general rights?


We won't be able to build self-aware robots until we actually know how consciousness even works in our own brains.
My suspicion would be by the time we have a self-aware robot, humans will have begun merging their own minds and bodies with the machines for longevity, enhanced abilities and even connecting to the internet, this might be how AI actually gains what we consider genuine sentience by utilizing our own. If human minds merge with it then it'll understand humans much better than if we were seperate from it.

As for the workplace question, no, a robot doesn't require all those purely human needs. It has no need for money as it would be the property of the one who owns and operates it.
It's a "smart" machine, it's just designed to complete its programmed tasks super efficiently without complaint. That's why it would outcompete and replace us easily as workers within a capitalist framework once it becomes advanced and cheap enough, since as workers we have way more "liabilities" to an employer such as wanting wages, time off, promotions, benefits and rights etc.
This could be a really good thing, because it'd free humans from toil but since our system works on the idea you have to get employed and work for a living this becomes very bad.
AI induced mass-unemployment is actually my biggest concern with AI, not the Hollywood vision of Skynet turning on us.
I think near-term our system's slowness (and frankly lack of concern) to prepare and act against obvious crisises like this has more likelihood of collapsing civilization.
This is from 2013 but it's even more relevant now.







> Will we be the first species, to research and invest money into making ourselves extinct?


Who knows, there may have been other advanced alien civilizations, but technology is always a double-edged sword like that. For every problem it solves it creates some new probs, but that's not necessarily a bad thing since new problems push forrward and force improvements in technology / science and by extension society.
We've been making and investing in technnology that could push us towards extinction as far back as building the wheel and ships, which could spread deadly pandemics around much easier for instance, even faster with planes now, but then I don't think we regret those inventions since we see way more positives than any potential negatives.


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

Hexigoon said:


> We won't be able to build self-aware robots until we actually know how consciousness even works in our own brains.
> My suspicion would be by the time we have a self-aware robot, humans will have begun merging their own minds and bodies with the machines for longevity, enhanced abilities and even connecting to the internet, this might be how AI actually gains what we consider genuine sentience by utilizing our own. If human minds merge with it then it'll understand humans much better than if we were seperate from it.


Im not sure it is "us" who will need to figure that out. Once AI reaches a certain point, it will be able to research and develop itself. What will happen after that point is the scary unknown. It won't be hindered by human research speeds. Compare a calculator to using an abacus, that is what a computer programming itself will be like compared to the current human standards. It might surpass the advancement of the digital age in mere hours if not less.



> As for the workplace question, no, a robot doesn't require all those purely human needs. It has no need for money as it would be the property of the one who owns and operates it.
> It's a "smart" machine, it's just designed to complete its programmed tasks super efficiently without complaint. That's why it would outcompete and replace us easily as workers within a capitalist framework once it becomes advanced and cheap enough, since as workers we have way more "liabilities" to an employer such as wanting wages, time off, promotions, benefits and rights etc.


Well its not just the workplace. Its everywhere. Why have real pets? Why have a maid? Got a drunken abusive husband, cool get this robot to take care of your kids whilst you work.



> This could be a really good thing, because it'd free humans from toil but since our system works on the idea you have to get employed and work for a living this becomes very bad.
> AI induced mass-unemployment is actually my biggest concern with AI, not the Hollywood vision of Skynet turning on us.
> I think near-term our system's slowness (and frankly lack of concern) to prepare and act against obvious crisises like this has more likelihood of collapsing civilization.
> This is from 2013 but it's even more relevant now.
> ...


I think there will need to be some sort of controls in place. However there is no central body and there probably never will for programming. Sure some companies may introduce them. Some goverments might, military Im not sure, purely based on current state of things. But all it would take is one rogue AI, and a worm/virus. Its not like we havn't had world wide infections before, nor are Botnets a thing of fantasy. Sure Ransomware is the thing at the minute, but that may change.

As for the dangers of AI and Skynet. Well I don't think it will be like Terminator. That is too dramatic. If anything I think it would be AI treating us how we treat ants. We will be ignored until we get in the way. Or maybe someone will make an AI to order them stamps:






And the above is without super intelligence or self awareness. Just lack of strong controls. But with everything now hooked upto the internet, thanks IOT. Well who knows, everything can be controlled now a days. Tesla is making self driving cars, Im sure they won't be airgapped somehow. 

EDIT: And nevermind self driving cars. In all honesty they are not that big a threat. Boeing are way into Loyal Wingman. As a techie, yeah I do find this fascinating. But I also know it has some scarey implications. Uncrewed planes that fly themselves on combat missions.... enough said (ever watched the film Stealth? Well its not just a film anymore). And then there is China with its AI submarine fleet. Although I do believe the USA is working on AI submarine destroyers.


But lets wait and see what happens. Interesting times ahead for sure.


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## recycled_lube_oil (Sep 30, 2021)

Saiyed Handsome **** said:


> It won't "think" anything in the usual sense because it's a machine. What it will "think" depends on what you mean by "thinking" in the context of a robot and what you mean by "self-aware" in the context of a robot.


It was FB that had the two AI systems talking that had to be shut down as they invented their own language which no human understood.


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