# ENTP or INFP? Yes, I know shockingly different in theory



## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Are there any ENTPs out there who might also identify with INFP? It is too long to discuss every point but

I am confrentational, I like playing the devil just to see how people react, I can be a clown at times - in fact when I assume this character I thrive, my humor is dark (I suppose this is a common trait but my humor also falls under #toosoon as well).

I am energized by people and having unorthodox conversations, hypotheticals yada yada, but I need to be away from people for a while, I get insecure easily, I love discovering how I work, how people work, how do they feel,

existential to a core but preferably a cheerful nihilist,

I get dumb and doe eyes when I am in love and I need approval of the person I love, and I will be sickingly and out of characterly sweet,

I am very independent and can't ask for or receive help easily, I am concerned about peoples' feelings and I try to not hurt them, not on purpose anyway but this is only selectively, I will still make remarks, I am outspoken to a fault, I will tease you etc., but I could never bully a person if that makes sense,

at times my writing can be long and all over the place (read: feels) BUT I hate it when others do, for example in professional context I hate people who writes walls of texts, better keep a bullet list,

I believe I am an introvert in Jung's terms.

I can't manipulate people on purpose, it just bothers me to no end.

I LOVE new ideas and new projects but I can hardly finish them on my own, I prefer working in a team as long as the team has good dynamics. Left to my own devices everything takes painfully long, if I ever finish anything that is. I suffer from low motivation despite being a person who is so energetic and excitable when I get a rush (deep conversations with people, travel, new opportunities, moving to a new city, taking up a new job, opportunities).

I do care to keep a group of people together and enjoy themselves, I like to take the lead in order to make this happen.

I swear too self absorbed in feels people, and too indirect people, or too slow people, or too mundane people piss me off to no end - I feel like they suffocate me.

I am not a dreamy, peaceful, calm person. I am loud. That is when I get to talk. But as a stranger, I probably look like the dreamy INFP. I am very imaginative though. I like giving public talks and I always add something to make people laugh. I am a good story teller on good days. On worst days I am neurotic and emotional as fuck (read Ne-fe loop?)

I don't identify with ENFP btw, they annoy me to death and I think they are the most self serving, manipulating, narcissistic, shallow, vengeful people ever. I get along with them initially or in small doses (like they are up for anything so make perfect activity mates, but a bit longer and a bit deeper and most definitely they turn me off like no other).

Some updated tests give me ENFP/ENTP, sometimes INTP
The classic Myers Briggs give me INFP almost always.

Ne is almost always around 96-100% and I have very high Ni as well. I have high Fi and Ti is just around its corner. Not too shabbly Fe. I believe I do have a preference for Te however. I just like the brutal, clean cut, practical way of doing things at times (e.g. when you need to communicate with people to take care of a situation)

My career is in tech but I feel out of place at times, like the INTPs are way better and productive compared to me. I was repeatedly praised however on being a fast learner, and getting things done in small amounts of time (WHEN I AM IN MOOD ONLY sadly). Otherwise I just have a bunch of ideas and no motivation to finish anything I start.

I love a good challenge.

Details make me cry.

I took a look at my photos in an objective way (social media) and I do give ENTP vibes, not the dreamy INFP but always some silly/not serious pose.

This is how my personality would look like according to functional use, not the briggs-myers order.


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## agojangle (Apr 3, 2021)

You're going to hate all this I am going to write 😂

Literal ENTP everything you said is straight ENTP, actually a stereotyped one that's kind of weird to be honest. I read the first paragraph and I already felt ENTP and then I read the rest and ENTP was confirmed, the issues with those quizzes is that they categorize each question wrong so you end up being typed as something entirely opposite with your actual personality, for me I cross referenced with other quizzes and put the pieces together, quizzes like;

• Enneagram
• Big 5
• Similar Minds

What you said about ENFPs rings so true with me man I have like 2 as friends because most of them are a bunch of annoying dickheads that backstab me over time over something petty, or outright jealously because I am constantly improving myself and in terms of skill they get dusted. I thought I was the only one that wanted to hang out with people who are a bit slower, like I sometimes want to take things slower and take time to view the world around me but like they get impatient and leave me because I am not moving 24/7. 😂 Like I just want to want sit back and relax for a week or two you know I am not super hyperactive, maybe when I was like 5 but not now. 

You answered some important questions for me, and in return you are an ENTP I love the strong opinions by the way, I don't see that these days, too many neutral people.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

JTCummings said:


> You're going to hate all this I am going to write 😂
> 
> Literal ENTP everything you said is straight ENTP, actually a stereotyped one that's kind of weird to be honest. I read the first paragraph and I already felt ENTP and then I read the rest and ENTP was confirmed, the issues with those quizzes is that they categorize each question wrong so you end up being typed as something entirely opposite with your actual personality, for me I cross referenced with other quizzes and put the pieces together, quizzes like;
> 
> ...


What about emotional parts though?

My enneagram is 478 sx/sp, basically the Messenger archetype so it is more in line with ENTP for sure. 

My big 5 is always off the chart openness (close to 100%) my conscientiousness is very very very LOW, I am extroverted I think around 76, I am neurotic (read again FEELS) I think it should be around 65% agreeableness -> critically low

I just wonder if I am just a rebellious INFP due to being so emotional at times, then again I am just too different than INFP portrayal -and- the INFPs I know somewhat closely. Thanks for your opinion, I am baffled how you are certain but I'll take it.


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## 8080 (Oct 6, 2020)

*You are a naughty feeler*. *Male ENfP.* Or eNfP. Or iNfP. But not ENtP or eNtP. And not iNtP.



nichya said:


> My *big 5* is always off the chart openness (close to 100%) my conscientiousness is very very very LOW, *I am extroverted I think around 76*, I am *neurotic* (read again FEELS) I think it should be around 65% agreeableness -> critically low


It is not surprising that you appear more extraverted on (Likert scale) FFM tests than on many (forced-choice) online MBTI tests which already make you an introvert if you are not enthusiastic about parties. That is why I take FFM Extraversion results more seriously.

Your FFM results confirm, in MBTI terms, your very clear preference for N and P which is also reflected by your text.



> I just wonder if I am just a *rebellious* INFP due to being so *emotional* at times, then again *I am just too different than INFP portrayal -and- the INFPs I know somewhat closely*.


If you must take into account that the MBTI profiles always portray the sex that is predominant for the respective type. Of course males are naughtier and more criminal than females.



> I don't identify with ENFP btw, they annoy me to death and I think they are the most self serving, manipulating, narcissistic, shallow, vengeful people ever. I get along with them initially or in small doses (like they are up for anything so make perfect activity mates, but a bit longer and a bit deeper and most definitely they turn me off like no other)


The fact that you do not like some representatives of a type does not preclude you from having the same type. Perhaps those poor ENFPs function as your mirror? Perhaps you do not recognise fellow ENfPs as ENFPs? Don't you think that Michel de Montaigne is a very interesting author?

Since you know INTPs you could already exclude this type. I suggest that you consider your type as ENtP or eNtP for the next 44 days and observe how you like it – in order to realise that you are a feeler. With that, I leave the field to the very knowledgeable ENFPs here. I hope you have not chased them all away yet.


Just in case:

_Enter a random e-mail address if required:_

*A) SeeMyPersonality*
SeeMyPersonality FAQ

*B) SimilarMinds

C) IPIP-NEO PI-R

D) The HEXACO Personality Inventory - Revised*


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

8080 said:


> *You are a naughty feeler*. *Male ENfP.* Or eNfP. Or iNfP. But not ENtP or eNtP. And not iNtP.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am female btw


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

You seem more like an ENFP. Those people you describe as ENFPs don't sound like ENFP at all.


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## agojangle (Apr 3, 2021)

nichya said:


> What about emotional parts though?
> 
> My enneagram is 478 sx/sp, basically the Messenger archetype so it is more in line with ENTP for sure.
> 
> ...


For your enneagram that is a little baffled I think I was going to say you are a 5 or 6 but that's just a guess and I am definitely not sure about those.

For big five you could be a thinker and have high agreeableness, I do for example;

Openness: 100%
Conscientiousness: 87%
Extraversion: 77%
Agreeableness: 90%
Neuroticism: 20%

Normally people would say I am ENFP or ENFJ or even INFJ but I developed emotional intelligence and had high amounts of empathy since I was born, I focused on cognitive empathy, people would say you're a feeler because they severely stereotyped F, from being the only people with emotions, and T as emotionless robots but that's not the case.

What you said about the ENFP already proves you know something about it being more complex. Emotional intelligence in my opinion is more important than just feeling for someone because it allows you analyze a situation and its complexities than being "me sorry, I cry now" (I know there's more to it but that's just a summary). Why am I an ENTP? To put it simply I do what an ENTP does but not in a stereotyped manner my enneagram is 4, I have rarely ever seen 4 ENTPs so that should tell you enough.

I suggest you take an enneagram quiz so we can cross-reference if you're down but I already feel that you're an ENTP but what kind is the real question.

You're not an INFP because they speak in really short one-liners they don't like talking all that much, that doesn't mean they aren't mentally but you rarely see it and honestly you don't give off an INFP aura, I have plenty of them as friends and they are not the most talkative, ever. Unless you ask them a question outside of that they usually just give really short answers and then zone out.


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## MsMojiMoe (Apr 7, 2021)

Hi, I’m an INFP ( i like the Jung one best, he did all the ground work, everyone else stole from him to make their own) i take the others for fun.
jung Said infps can look ( mentally) very different for one another, to others, bc we base things on a personal level.




nichya said:


> I am confrentational, I like playing the devil just to see how people react, I can be a clown at times - in fact when I assume this character I thrive, my humor is dark


my humor is on the dark side usually. I’m not confrontational but I will if I have too. Tho, there are infps that very confronatational. They acted out. There was this one YouTube video where they interview infp males and one of them was this. Even Jung say we can have violent outburst, I sometimes really have to hold back bc my whole thing is if they aren’t going to get your point than they are not worth it. its pointless or in vain, but it has been very hard at times.
I love to play devil advocate. I have a billion thoughts and ideas in my head all the time. I listen well to others and I read a lot bc of my curious mind. And I’m always trying to decide what side ( many sides) I believe in more. What’s ithe most humane Or true Depending what the question is. I lIke to put my beliefs out there not to defend but to let others ( if they can keep focus and not be defensive) find fault bc others can find fault in your ideas better than you can, most are just criticizing but every now and then someone will come up with a legit argument and then I can research...I just don’t want to believe in something bc I think i have more understanding, or just bc I was taught /told this all my life or bc it’s the norm, I need to know the TRUTH not what I want to believe is true. So, I played the devil advocate a lot to see different points of views To better understand what I truly believe in.

so, my reason is definitely more internal where yours is a bit more external. Reasoning.


QUOTE="nichya, post: 44152953, member: 130874"]
I am energized by people and having unorthodox conversations, hypotheticals yada yada, but I need to be away from people for a while, I get insecure easily, I love discovering how I work, how people work, how do they feel,
[/QUOTE]

I do in the right conversation And events get energized. There is nothing like finding someone who can talked for hours about weird stuff that I like. Consciousness, time travel, ancient cultures, mysterious urban legends, or just my own personal weird theories. Oh, philosophy, of course.



nichya said:


> existential to a core but preferably a cheerful nihilist,


Yes, existential but nihilist not so much, I tried it, I just have or witness too many coincidences and synchronicity that I just believe there is more to this life/universe than meets the eye. However, I like the type of nihilist that says it’s you who can give your life meaning, but I just don’t described to the rest of nihilism. I’m a xfile fan bc I love both Mulder ( believer or I want to believe)and Sully (skeptic) I always felt like them together makes the whole me and even though they’re opposite they are still friends, I believe that is a perfect example of my mind.

A skeptical believer, of some sort.

infps love philosophy ( most do) but there are a lot of other types that do also...so who knows.



nichya said:


> I get dumb and doe eyes when I am in love and I need approval of the person I love, and I will be sickingly and out of characterly sweet,


Not me. But there are a lot that can relate to this. I get dreamy like for a week, but then Im done. I just don’t match well with others. I love the idea of being in love, but it ends there. I really just don’t like ppl in my space. Plus I’m on the self discovery a lifetime quest...which takes a lot of my attention and I’m a little set in my ways. Once on a dating site, I put something like my ideal living situation with a guy was that we need 3 bedrooms, one for me, one for him and ours ...bc I need my space, I like to decorate the way I want things, ( and he should too). It could be cool, you know, sitting on the couch and be like “your place or mine” or sneak into each other rooms at night etc.... lol...yes but I’m completely serious. I guess I like to daydream about it more than actually being in a relationship. Plus I have a fear of being cheated on and falling in love just isn’t a priority of mine and bc of that I could never be the person they want or need me to be.



nichya said:


> am very independent and can't ask for or receive help easily, I am concerned about peoples' feelings and I try to not hurt them, not on purpose anyway but this is only selectively, I will still make remarks, I am outspoken to a fault, I will tease you etc., but I could never bully a person if that makes sense,


I’m very independent And can’t ask for help ever, etc. in fact, I have just about cut everyone from my life. I don’t hurt ppl feelings but mostly bc I just don’t want to deal with it...my energy is so low when I’m around others. I wish I was more outspoken but if I believe it to be pointless or too much energy I usually keep things to myself. Once I get angry, it takes me days even weeks to come down. I don’t sleep or eat I just fret, over and over. I have to guard myself from others....however not bc I’m sweet ( im do come across to others as sweet, tho) and worried about hurting someone feelings but bc it makes me mad and that anger can turn to rage. 

also, when I’m with others, a lot of my ideas are mine not what I heard or some agenda. So, sometimes at first they sound like they are coming from out of left field...so I have to explain things/ background info before I can get to my main point....and this is a problem bc ppl constantly interrupt and then I have to re-focus them and reel them back in and it takes a little while to connect all the points so you can understand my conclusion....but ppl just want to argue and be on defense and not hearing you...so I just don’t speak in groups most of the time, it’s pointless. Im never able to finish my Points.

im going stop here and finish later on. Plus this post is getting long, and I know ppls attention span.
I know you didn’t asked about INFP but ENTPs. But it may be nice to compare another infps. I put stories in so you can see how my mind works. I’m not outward emotional either, but my true inner connections with self and how I make my decision base on them is why I’m an infp.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

MsMojiMoe said:


> Hi, I’m an INFP ( i like the Jung one best, he did all the ground work, everyone else stole from him to make their own) i take the others for fun.
> jung Said infps can look ( mentally) very different for one another, to others, bc we base things on a personal level.


Dude, thanks, but see this writing is all over the place, I am guilty of this myself at times.

One thing for sure: No two INFPs are the same, I think the most diversity is in INFPs, after that perhaps INTJs. Some other types can be like textbook INFJ or ENFJ or whatever.

How can Princess Diana and Andy Warhol be of same type??


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

OP:
Asks whether ENTP or INFP.
Shows image of the highest scored likelihood being ENFP. 🤔


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

dulcinea said:


> OP:
> Asks whether ENTP or INFP.
> Shows image of the highest scored likelihood being ENFP. 🤔


LOL!

Nichya, reading the first post I did think ENFP. ENFP just seems like the most likely person to end up confused between a INFP and ENTP since they could share traits with both... and the result was slightly leaning towards ENFP.

But ok... if you’re positive you’re not seeing ENFP, then I would go with ENTP. I’m getting a very strong extrovert vibe with you, so I wouldn’t at all imagine Introvert/Fi-dom.


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

nichya said:


> just wonder if I am just a rebellious INFP due to being so emotional at tim


Hmmm let’s think Fi/Fe. Would you prefer to:

a) Sing an energising, upbeat/happy song to a reasonably large audience

b) Sing your self-written songs that are quite emotional and related to past relationships, in the shower where no one can hear you


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

dulcinea said:


> OP:
> Asks whether ENTP or INFP.
> Shows image of the highest scored likelihood being ENFP. 🤔


AHEM* I know it was too long to read BUT, here, this part:

I don't identify with ENFP btw, they annoy me to death and I think they are the most self serving, manipulating, narcissistic, shallow, vengeful people ever. I get along with them initially or in small doses (like they are up for anything so make perfect activity mates, but a bit longer and a bit deeper and most definitely they turn me off like no other).


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Lauren222 said:


> Hmmm let’s think Fi/Fe. Would you prefer to:
> 
> a) Sing an energising, upbeat/happy song to a reasonably large audience
> 
> b) Sing your self-written songs that are quite emotional and related to past relationships, in the shower where no one can hear you


No offence but this is a really bad take of Fi/Fe

c) I would rather do a stand up show to a big audience but focus on one random dude to make him laugh as a challenge.

Would that make me an ENTP? Maybe. I also like to take control in large groups and entertain people.

But, I am introverted as in I live in my head all the time, I can be very self absorbed when alone or when I am out with others (e.g. if I am not in mood), and I do have strong moral codes, as in, they are not defined by external factors (as in they don't have to but of course I take in new information)


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

nichya said:


> AHEM* I know it was too long to read BUT, here, this part:
> 
> I don't identify with ENFP btw, they annoy me to death and I think they are the most self serving, manipulating, narcissistic, shallow, vengeful people ever. I get along with them initially or in small doses (like they are up for anything so make perfect activity mates, but a bit longer and a bit deeper and most definitely they turn me off like no other).


I think a lot of your ideas on typology might be based on limited experience and stereotypes.
I'll admit some ENFPs are indeed like this, but you could very well be an ENFP and not be like that at all. Some of these problems are not type related.
Incidentally, a lot of those adjectives you've used, I could easily use to describe many of the INFJs I've met in online spaces and people IRL who have typed as INFJ. There are quite a few INFJs that I find to be rather delusional, judgy and rather snooty. I mean, don't get me wrong; there's a lot I like as well, but when I see an unhealthy INFJ I actually find them to be more intolerable than other types, probably, because I secretly relate to a lot their flaws and dark side.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

dulcinea said:


> I think a lot of your ideas on typology might be based on limited experience and stereotypes.
> I'll admit some ENFPs are indeed like this, but you could very well be an ENFP and not be like that at all. Some of these problems are not type related.
> Incidentally, a lot of those adjectives you've used, I could easily use to describe many of the INFJs I've met in online spaces and people IRL who have typed as INFJ. There are quite a few INFJs that I find to be rather delusional, judgy and rather snooty. I mean, don't get me wrong; there's a lot I like as well, but when I see an unhealthy INFJ I actually find them to be more intolerable than other types, probably, because I secretly relate to a lot their flaws and dark side.


True, but here we are on a personality type forum 

I have known many ENFPs and INFJs (don't ask, they always find me somehow but most I have befriended from literature department, I also asked many of them to take the test). I think -male- INFJs and -female- ENFPs are quite carbon copies to their counterparts! So for these types I am quite confident.

No INFP I have met were similar to one another, but maybe something in common is that they are too much self absorbed in their feels and they can be rigid.

If I am ENFP however, I may find it difficult to relate maybe because I am in a INTP dominated major/work, but at the same time I don't think my Ti is dominant over feelings (more like other way around). Maybe as a child I was like that but then the feels hit and also now I have the attention span of a squirrel so can't think in Ti for long.


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## dulcinea (Aug 22, 2011)

nichya said:


> True, but here we are on a personality type forum
> 
> I have known many ENFPs and INFJs (don't ask, they always find me somehow but most I have befriended from literature department, I also asked many of them to take the test). I think -male- INFJs and -female- ENFPs are quite carbon copies to their counterparts! So for these types I am quite confident.
> 
> ...


Yeah, at the end of the day, it's for you to determine. We only pick up on the impression you give off in an online setting.Overall, you give me the impression of being more Ne-dominant so far; whether ENFP or ENTP, I can't really say. I find they're really not as different as memes and MBTI communities make them out to be.


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

nichya said:


> would rather do a stand up show to a big audience but focus on one random dude to make him laugh as a challenge.
> 
> Would that make me an ENTP? Maybe. I also like to take control in large groups and entertain people.


Hahaha 😂
Yes I’m still ENTP team.
Not an introvert answer lol

ENTPs play with F related things. They find it fun, but don’t like having to deal with anything too serious emotionally until they are a bit more mature later in life. INFPs take feelings much more seriously.

ENTPs like entertaining using F (purely for fun... acting, singing, dancing... a lot of loud and extroverted emotional expression).

INFPs are not using F to entertain others primarily. They are using F introspectively, they are very in touch with their emotions.

:edit: ENFPs are a bit more complicated because they do come across as being pretty open, talkative.. extroverted.. but when you get closer you see the Fi. They are actually the most emotional type I have ever been in a relationship with, but it’s kind of hidden with them. You seem to have more emotional detachment.


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## Lauren222 (Apr 10, 2021)

If this helps.. Something my ENTP bf said the other day was “I just want to make the people around me happy”. This is out of context because I don’t want to go through the whole conversation. But with Fe there’s a pretty strong focus on how you are making other people around you feel, rather than your own feelings.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Lauren222 said:


> If this helps.. Something my ENTP bf said the other day was “I just want to make the people around me happy”. This is out of context because I don’t want to go through the whole conversation. But with Fe there’s a pretty strong focus on how you are making other people around you feel, rather than your own feelings.


I am actually quite in touch with my emotions and I tend to understand people's emotions as well, the ones they try to supress, their fears and motivations included, things they don't even face themselves. Sometimes I have to act like I don't. Sometimes I shut them down cause I don't want any of it. But I am good at helping people understand themselves.

I am also quite self absorbed in my feelings actually. It is hard to explain but I spent about 28 years of my life basically being a typical INFP (or rather let's say from adolescence to 28), and then after a heartbreak and following depression I got quite extroverted in the past couple of years, began to use humor and making people laugh as a weapon almost 
If you want to put a distance between people, you should talk and direct the conversation.
I suppose I also became extroverted because I had the right circles around that time, and being liked and sort of a social leader of a few circles felt good. Looking back I see that I was very lonely, and felt like an outsider before this(objectively so, not just my senses)

I learnt to detach from feelings mostly, I can be quite rational. But then when I am in love or heartbroken, or feel like I am missing out I really can't deal with my emotions, they are too overwhelming and washes over me. I use humor to deal with things and it has become a persona at this point, and I feel like I can't stop it even when I feel very down. At the same time, about other things including many things that easily upset people, I can be quite rational.

Maybe it is the circumstances, maybe as Jung initially thought my personality type changed over time. Maybe I was depressed for all my teenage and young adult days, I don't know


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

impulsenine said:


> Let go of what has been and what has developed. It's about what is developing further. Not through simple behaviors, but through real different ways of using the brain. Embracing new naturals.


ah yes, the illusion that everyone can be everything if only they will it


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> ah yes, the illusion that everyone can be everything if only they will it


Who said everyone? Even if one can, it already invalidates all the theory you support.
And it's not just about willing. That is the necessary but not sufficient condition.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

impulsenine said:


> Who said everyone? Even if one can, it already invalidates all the theory you support.
> And it's not just about willing. That is the necessary but not sufficient condition.


and no one can, because antagonistic traits suppress each other


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> and no one can, because antagonistic traits suppress each other


practice > theory.
at any time of the day or night.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

impulsenine said:


> practice > theory.
> at any time of the day or night.


it's quite empirical actually 🤷‍♀️


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> it's quite empirical actually 🤷‍♀️


It would have been if you didn't have the "theory" in your brain when you made the observations.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

impulsenine said:


> It would have been if you didn't have the "theory" in your brain when you made the observations.


? I've been making these observations long before I learned about it.


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> ? I've been making these observations long before I learned about it.


So you haven't met people who have had major changes in the way the psyche is organized and works?
I met a lot.
It was as if people were reborn.

Hint: one of them is someone often quoted. It starts with J and ends with G.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

impulsenine said:


> So you haven't met people who have had major changes in the way the psyche is organized and works?
> I met a lot.
> It was as if people were reborn.
> 
> Hint: one of them is someone often quoted. It starts with J and ends with G.


change is change mate, that's my point, you can't be both or everything simultaneously


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> change is change mate, that's my point, you can't be both or everything simultaneously


Well, logically not simultaneously. 
It's would be like driving two cars at the same time. 

But that doesn't mean you can't leave one car in the garage and take the other when you feel like it. 
Change does not imply that you throw away the old car to take the new one. 
Some have a fairly large garage for several cars.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

impulsenine said:


> Well, logically not simultaneously.
> It's would be like driving two cars at the same time.
> 
> But that doesn't mean you can't leave one car in the garage and take the other when you feel like it.
> ...


yes it does mean that, because personality isn't like cars you can just relinquish any moment you feel like and choose to have the opposite as if you never were what you started with. what you're proposing is exactly what simultaneously means in regards to how a human functions
change happens gradually due to pressures that affect the way we experience each moment we function differently, until moments become habits, and the result is to be _changed, _not to revert back at any time you please


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## impulsenine (Oct 18, 2020)

Red Panda said:


> yes it does mean that, because personality isn't like cars you can just relinquish any moment you feel like and choose to have the opposite as if you never were what you started with. what you're proposing is exactly what simultaneously means in regards to how a human functions
> change happens gradually due to pressures that affect the way we experience each moment we function differently, until moments become habits, and the result is to be _changed, _not to revert back at any time you please


Who says that? Some neuroscientists who are groping for some knowledge of what they think psyche should mean?
If the experiment beats the theory, it's done. There is no more discussion.


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

impulsenine said:


> Who says that? Some neuroscientists who are groping for some knowledge of what they think psyche should mean?
> If the experiment beats the theory, it's done. There is no more discussion.


Is this supposed to be an argument? 
anyways, experiment all you like


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> if that's all these people can talk about it's unlikely they're ENFP, much less N dom
> when you understand this you'll have gained a better understanding of typology in general


Ne doms use Ne in a different way than Ne aux. They were both self reported ENFPs and me typing them ENFPs. Check and check. I wonder how many female ENFPs you got to know, cause if you know then you know


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

Red Panda said:


> I disagree, type refers to preferences and preferences form habitual ways of thinking. So, we don't all have the same strengths and flaws, nor the same ways we turn bad.


The problem is you are viewing Ne as independent, which really does not come off from ENFPs the way Ne is solely described.

How they use Ne?

They use Fi as a weapon to get people do things (that is where the possibilities branch) for them, to create kinship with people to be liked. When they are done, they can also easily turn this off.

How do INFPs use Ne?
Use Ne as a weapon to entertain their imaginary cause it makes them feel good (Fi)

How do INTPs use Ne?
Use Ne as a weapon to explore how things work (Ti)

Socionics explain this very nicely actually.


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## nichya (Jul 12, 2014)

impulsenine said:


> I think that the knowledge revolution on personality typologies should start with this: stop assuming that certain personalities should or should not do, say, think or feel something.
> I don't think Jung wrote somewhere that "Ne-doms can talk about this, this and that. If someone don't do that, it's not N dom".
> 
> The knowledge regarding the human nature from the perspective of the personalities of the human psyche is kept in the fog right by this type of thinking.


Well this is a typology site so, of course we generalize. 

But indeed I will take my experience with 10-15 female ENFPs over any politically correct desription anytime.

Also, neuroscience is mostly garbage, we don't know how brain works. The only thing neuroscience got close to validating is the J/P divide


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## Red Panda (Aug 18, 2010)

nichya said:


> Ne doms use Ne in a different way than Ne aux. They were both self reported ENFPs and me typing them ENFPs. Check and check. I wonder how many female ENFPs you got to know, cause if you know then you know


I'm Ne dom and have known other NEs as well. Also know people who mistyped as ENFP, either themselves or others. How N is defined in sites and theories nowadays resembles very little what was initially observed empirically as N, which is to pay attention to infrequent and barely conscious characteristics of incoming information, that which is experienced as intangible by Sensors, as it doesn't occur frequently enough for them, they're exceptions to their rules. All NEs are interested in how things work, because EN leads to that naturally.
Anyways, getting people to do things for me is quite low in the list of how I go about my life, and when I do require other peoples' help I tend to be direct about it. I don't like burdening others if I can help myself. Kinship and being liked are things we all seek to some extent, but they don't mean much if others like me without knowing me, then it's just a matter of keeping peace, not connecting. I'm quite comfortable being disliked for the right reasons too. An ENFP, Ne dom, isn't gonna spend all their energy on people just to be liked (unless they're very broken maybe), I'd look into F doms, S and/or Js if that's the case.


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## NT the DC (May 31, 2012)

Astrida88 said:


> *Even if there is a "clear F over T" it doesn't automatically mean the person is ENFP. Fe heavy ENTPs can seem "F over T" as well.*
> 
> So the real question is: is it Fi+Te or Fe+Ti?
> 
> ...


Why does it need to be "automatic"? 

I think your statement is a bit like saying "Just because you're a T-dominant doesn't mean you're automatically T-dominant".

If you're "Fe-Heavy" perhaps you're not T-dom/aux? If you're Fi-dom perhaps you're not a T-dom/aux? I could just as easily say "Being Fe-heavy, doesn't automatically make you a ENTP" and that would actually make a lot more sense. 

The question is not "Fi+Te or Ti+Fe" if your leading function is Ne which is clearly is in this case then it's just a matter of F vs T. You can't be Ne-Fe/Te as dom-aux so it has to be Fi/Ti. If you're an Ne-dom with a preference of F over T then your only option is Ne-Fi: ENFP.

Typing is about the major and obvious traits, so many people get stuck on nuances and the minutia of their weakest functions in order to try to get themselves to fit in the box of their choosing depsite the overwhelming evidence which is contrary or to continuously tailspin. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck sometimes it is actually a duck not a horse.

In this case it's pretty obvious that it's Ne and F over T.
You can over analyze it and make all sorts of exceptions to the rules or just state the obvious.


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