# Introverted heroes in movies/books



## Daveman (May 16, 2010)

"The movie heroes who affect me most are not extroverted. They don't strut, speechify and lead armies. They have no superpowers. They are ordinary people who are faced with a need and rise to the occasion. Ree Dolly is such a hero." - Roger Ebert on *Winter's Bone*

Well, happy late birthday to Roger Ebert! He turned 68 (technically) yesterday. It's offically 1 am where I live, and I can't get to sleep, so I thought I would post a thread about something that's been on my mind today.

First, after reading Ebert's new review of *Winter's Bone*, I'm curious about how he perceives introverts. After reading his first sentence, I think that it's safe to assume that he believes that the main character, Ree Dolly, is one. I'm fairly certain that Ebert is not one himself, however. There have been some statements that he has wrote in the past that give me that impression. I'm going to try to not get too long-winded in this first post, but if anyone would like for me to elaborate on that later, I will. 

Secondly, I wonder who you would consider to be introverted heroes (or protagonists) in works of fiction. Personally, I always think of the anti-hero. My mind goes straight to Clint Eastwood- I know you're shocked about that after seeing my avatar. I also think of Batman, Film Noir detectives, and basically any man or woman who fits the "strong silent" archetype. 

I have grown to truley despise films that portray a reserved person having an "implosion" (i.e. *Falling Down*). I like for villians to be a little more over the top like the Joker or Scorpio in* Dirty Harry*. After all, you know...It's always the loud ones. :wink:


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## Vaka (Feb 26, 2010)

I'm pretty sure Roger Ebert wasn't referring to the Jungian definition of extroverted...especially considering we don't have superpowers LMFAO...I think that his idea of introverted is the general one...laid back, reserved, quiet...by Jungian terms, that could fit either extroverts or introverts. And from what I've heard, Roger Ebert is most likely an INFJ...so yeah, introverted xD
But it seems like you're basing it off of...quiet/loud, reserved/outgoing. That's not really the best way to do it imo...I don't really see why there would be any relationship between the role of the character and whether they're introverted or extroverted. But I'm not a huge movie-goer, and I don't read fiction much, so I can't really make many suggestions :/
Although I do agree with the assesment of Harry Potter as an ISFP...


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## Daveman (May 16, 2010)

Nyx said:


> I'm pretty sure Roger Ebert wasn't referring to the Jungian definition of extroverted...especially considering we don't have superpowers LMFAO...I think that his idea of introverted is the general one...laid back, reserved, quiet...by Jungian terms, that could fit either extroverts or introverts. And from what I've heard, Roger Ebert is most likely an INFJ...so yeah, introverted xD


You may be right. When I think back about some of the stuff he has written, I have more evidence to support the idea that he doesn't really understand what the terms mean. He may be an introvert and not know it. 



Nyx said:


> But it seems like you're basing it off of...quiet/loud, reserved/outgoing. That's not really the best way to do it imo...I don't really see why there would be any relationship between the role of the character and whether they're introverted or extroverted. But I'm not a huge movie-goer, and I don't read fiction much, so I can't really make many suggestions :/
> Although I do agree with the assesment of Harry Potter as an ISFP...


Honestly, I usually see introverts as looking "within" and extroverts as being concerned with the things that go on "outside the self". However, I am an iNtuititor as well as an introvert, so I admit that I probably get N confused with I and S confused with E. I've wondered a lot latley about what goes on inside the mind of an introverted sensor. I imagine that they would be easier for most people to understand.

Anyway, I usually think introverts are more demonized than extroverts. People have personally "joked" about me being a serial killer. I would think that there would be a definate relationship with "outsiders" and villians. So, after reading Ebert's review, I wondered about who people would consider to be "introverted heroes". 

I'm not a Harry Potter fan, by any means, but good for him.


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## JoetheBull (Apr 29, 2010)

dsv2e said:


> Anyway, I usually think introverts are more demonized than extroverts. People have personally "joked" about me being a serial killer. I would think that there would be a definate relationship with "outsiders" and villians. So, after reading Ebert's review, I wondered about who people would consider to be "introverted heroes".


People joke about me being a serial killer also. and sometimes a mad scientist. depends on the person. But I would consider Batman to be an introverted hero and L from Death Note. Some of the Jedi s from starwars could be considered introverted. There is more but can't think of any right now


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## L'Empereur (Jun 7, 2010)

The main character in _The Stranger_ by Albert Camus
V in _V for Vendetta_
Jason Bourne in _The Bourne Series_?


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## Eisenheim (Jun 27, 2010)

I would consider the following to be introvert, 
Will Smiths character from "I Am Legend",
some of Bruce Willis roles like his main character role from "Unbreakable" and also his role in the "Die Hard" movies,
Christian Bale as Batman in "The Dark Knight" and "Batman Begins" I think generally Batman is portrayed as an introvert, and
Hugh Jackman as Wolverine in the "X-men" movies. 

There are probably more, these where the first that came to mind.


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## heartturnedtoporcelain (Apr 9, 2010)

Most of the characters on Criminal Minds.


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## Elan (Apr 22, 2010)

I would say that a _majority_ of heroes in movies and books are introverted. It is their friends and side-kicks that are the extraverted ones.


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## Alvarez (Jul 15, 2010)

There seems to be a sort of cube/triangle (depending on the film/book) formed by a hero and his companions. Often, the Hero is introverted: the Byronic hero, suffering a resurgence probably because of Twilight, takes on everything alone. He is quiet, reserved, perhaps emotionally stunted, but absolutely driven and resolute without a sign of hesitation. Perhaps an ISFJ/ISTJ; Introverted, focused on the Sensory aspects of life, either feeling or thinking, and resolute in his Judgement that his choices are morally correct.

The sidekick serves as a foil to the hero. He is relaxed, though equally sensory-oriented as the hero, allowing them to bond over shared experiences. The sidekick is extroverted and earthy, and commonly a womanizer (and sometimes a Leisure Suit Larry). Possibly an ESFP; extroverted and sensing, perhaps more in touch with his feelings than the hero and generally more able to examine different perspectives. 

The love interest is different. Introverted but unrepressed, she reaches out to people with the purpose of helping them rather than befriending them. Kind, warm hearted, gentle, generally open-minded yet secure in their beliefs, and with strong moral convictions. Closest to an INFJ.

The villain, though, is often a mirror of the protagonist, though a warped one. This effect allows the hero to see what they would become if they followed the wrong path. The hero and the villain would often score similarly on an Enneagram Test, with the hero somewhere between a level 1 and level 3 and the villain down at the lowest ranks.

This isn't always true, of course; Avatar: The Last Airbender switches the hero and sidekick role, House is a "villain" (lower ranking on the Enneagram) arguably without a protagonist, etc., but I think it's an alright generalization.


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## Lies (Jul 15, 2010)

Every evil genius ever.

Also Amelie, Ned from Pushing Daisies, Susan from Terry Pratchett's discworld series, Arthur Dent, all of Roald Dahl's protagonists, the Underground Man from Dostoyevsky's novel, damn, I can't think of a single extraverted protagonist I like. And in most of the books/movies I like, the extroverted sidekick is portrayed as being stupid.

I'm pretty sure Harry Potter an extrovert, though.


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## Alvarez (Jul 15, 2010)

Lies said:


> I can't think of a single extraverted protagonist I like. And in most of the books/movies I like, the extroverted sidekick is portrayed as being stupid.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Harry Potter an extrovert, though.


Nick Naylor from _Thank You For Smoking_?


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## Linus (Apr 27, 2010)

I agree with Amélie too

I like how she does it..
Saving the day several times in one day, per person.. under their noses
no tracks left behind


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## Sily (Oct 24, 2008)

I try to find my book Party of One by Anneli Rufus and add to this later but Atticus Finch from To Kill A Mockingbird. The Batman/Bruce Wayne. Clarice Starling of Silence of the Lambs. Jean Luc Picard. Michael Corleone of the Godfather. Fox Mulder of x-Files. Gandolf. Gregory House from House, MD., Doc Brown of Back to the Future................. man I could go on... I need to write an article on my site about this. There are tons o' introverted heroes.


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## coffeemuse (Jul 19, 2010)

Main character from _Veronika must die - Paulo Coelho
_and _How I became stupid - Martin Page_


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## Mutatio NOmenis (Jun 22, 2009)

Batman, Harry Potter, to name a few, are I-type heroes.


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## Daveman (May 16, 2010)

Elan said:


> I would say that a _majority_ of heroes in movies and books are introverted. It is their friends and side-kicks that are the extraverted ones.


There are certainly cases where that is true. I think that in gereral that the men would usually be STJ or STP. I guess they could be SFJ or SFP in some cases. If female, maybe NFJ or NFP (especially if it is a chick flick, and we are just talking about protagonists). But most of the time, she would be more likely to be a love interest. If the female is the hero, then she is more "masculine" than females are normally portrayed.

However, if the main character is- beyond any shadow of a doubt- an introvert. I think that usually something "bad" has happened to them. (i.e. Batman and Mad Max)

Clint Eastwood is a different kind of anti-hero though. He just does his own thing and most of the other characters in his movies just aren't as strong or as smart as he is. *Unforgiven *is one of the few movies that he's done where his character's qualities are viewed as tragic and not just "bad ass". You could probably say the same thing about *Gran Torino*, but that character is a little different than his usual. He's not usually racist.




Alvarez said:


> There seems to be a sort of cube/triangle (depending on the film/book) formed by a hero and his companions. Often, the Hero is introverted: the Byronic hero, suffering a resurgence probably because of Twilight, takes on everything alone. He is quiet, reserved, perhaps emotionally stunted, but absolutely driven and resolute without a sign of hesitation. Perhaps an ISFJ/ISTJ; Introverted, focused on the Sensory aspects of life, either feeling or thinking, and resolute in his Judgement that his choices are morally correct.
> 
> The sidekick serves as a foil to the hero. He is relaxed, though equally sensory-oriented as the hero, allowing them to bond over shared experiences. The sidekick is extroverted and earthy, and commonly a womanizer (and sometimes a Leisure Suit Larry). Possibly an ESFP; extroverted and sensing, perhaps more in touch with his feelings than the hero and generally more able to examine different perspectives.
> 
> ...


I agree that sensors are more likely to be heroes than intuitives. A lot of the time, I think that the main villian is an INTJ, or at least what they are stereotypically viewed as. They want to take over the world with their "mad" vision.

Thanks for your post. Very well thought out. I have to disagree with one thing though. I don't think House is a villian. I think he cares about the people he works with and his patients more than he would like to let on. He definatley views Fe as a weakness, so he tries to repress it in himself. He clearly likes Wilson and views him as his best friend. House does treat him like he is weak, but don't forget about how upset he was when he got back together with his wife, and they were no longer roommates. He also takes much more of an interest in the personal lives of his co-workers than an introvert normally would, I might add. Sometimes he is extermley intrusive about their sex lives. If he REALLY hated everyone, why would he even care? He talks about other people ALL THE TIME. Characters will often call him self-absorbed, but I think there's a difference between that and being arrogant- which is what he actually is.

He only seems like a villian on the surface. A lot of feelers view thinkers this way, I believe. A character would have to have a "deep down" soft spot in order for anybody to sympathize with them. If they don't, they would be emotionally numb. To feelers, the latter would be a terrible terrible thing. To thinkers, it is ideal. House wants everyone he interacts with to believe that he is a thinker. In his mind, that is a superior mindset that would allow him to deal with everything without emotions getting in the way. He is not successful in this endeavor. He's actually miserable, but he wouldn't want to admit it.
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Thank you, everyone who has posted in my thread. I am a big time movie-goer, and I am very interested in these types of discussions. I may start posting in this section more often.


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## Alvarez (Jul 15, 2010)

dsv2e said:


> Thanks for your post. Very well thought out. I have to disagree with one thing though. I don't think House is a villian. I think he cares about the people he works with and his patients more than he would like to let on. He definatley views Fe as a weakness, so he tries to repress it in himself. He clearly likes Wilson and views him as his best friend. House does treat him like he is weak, but don't forget about how upset he was when he got back together with his wife, and they were no longer roommates. He also takes much more of an interest in the personal lives of his co-workers than an introvert normally would, I might add. Sometimes he is extermley intrusive about their sex lives. If he REALLY hated everyone, why would he even care? He talks about other people ALL THE TIME. Characters will often call him self-absorbed, but I think there's a difference between that and being arrogant- which is what he actually is.
> 
> He only seems like a villian on the surface. A lot of feelers view thinkers this way, I believe. A character would have to have a "deep down" soft spot in order for anybody to sympathize with them. If they don't, they would be emotionally numb. To feelers, the latter would be a terrible terrible thing. To thinkers, it is ideal. House wants everyone he interacts with to believe that he is a thinker. In his mind, that is a superior mindset that would allow him to deal with everything without emotions getting in the way. He is not successful in this endeavor. He's actually miserable, but he wouldn't want to admit it.


I totally agree. By "villain" I meant antagonist, which he technically is - a damn good one at that. =P I relate to House a lot, specifically with the Few but Strong Friendships ideal and the Fe suppression. What I meant was that compared to most heroes he's more... anti-heroey. Though this is quickly changing, I guess, with all the anti-heroes floating around (although Byron was hardly "new").

It's funny, because out of all the "anti-heroes" (I put it in quotes because in lit it generally means heroes with realistic personality flaws rather than Villain Protagonists) House is one of the most immature ones, with his methodology of annoying others till he gets his way and Cuddy always referring to him as "childish." Most antiheroes are only flawed but in "cool" ways - they smoke, they abuse alcohol, they hate commitment - and never in childish ways, whereas House averts this nicely.

I think also that a lot of Extroverted characters get mislabeled as Introverted because of the situation. I personally think House is an extrovert, never content with rest or remaining stationary. I run into this a lot - the constant drive to move or for activity, which isn't solely motivated by inner drive, but the desire to be recognized or seen. House clearly likes the spotlight, thought he avoids close interpersonal relationships, and is a pretty good public speaker (like the time he very quickly trashed Large Black Antagonist's new pill). What I'm saying is that he's a repressed extrovert; that often times he likely does things in his head "for the action," but in reality because of the people involved. Introverts would be alright doing a job without necessarily being recognized, and I don't think House would (his preoccupation with de-throning God, as it is, is just a contest for credit).

Also to the list of extroverted heroes mistaken for introverts: likely Jess Mariano from Gilmore Girls, which is totally not gay for me to know cause of all my sisters and stuff... umm, what was I saying? Yeah.


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## Xplosive (Mar 4, 2010)

Elan said:


> I would say that a _majority_ of heroes in movies and books are introverted. It is their friends and side-kicks that are the extraverted ones.


I agree - generally the hero characters motivation stems internally from either Ni (a vision of how things will be in the future), Si (seeking to bring back how things were in the past) or Fi (reaction to personal morals/values/beliefs being crossed).


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## Daveman (May 16, 2010)

Alvarez said:


> I think also that a lot of Extroverted characters get mislabeled as Introverted because of the situation. I personally think House is an extrovert, never content with rest or remaining stationary. I run into this a lot - the constant drive to move or for activity, which isn't solely motivated by inner drive, but the desire to be recognized or seen. House clearly likes the spotlight, thought he avoids close interpersonal relationships, and is a pretty good public speaker (like the time he very quickly trashed Large Black Antagonist's new pill). What I'm saying is that he's a repressed extrovert; that often times he likely does things in his head "for the action," but in reality because of the people involved. Introverts would be alright doing a job without necessarily being recognized, and I don't think House would (his preoccupation with de-throning God, as it is, is just a contest for credit).


I agree. I don't think he is an introvert at all. However, he may be a good representation of what extroverts believe is the reason behind why reserved people act the way they do. (I didn't use the word "introvert" there, because that gets confused with "shy"). Like I said before, he is arrogant and that gets confused with self-absorbed on the show. And I know they are trying to make him seem like a misanthrope, but that too only seems like it's on the surface. His "deep down" feelings don't even seem all that subtle to me.

Yes, he is an anti-hero, but he is not an introvert. He can be seen as a repressed extrovert, like you said, or maybe a repressed feeler. Maybe both. (Is it "suppressed"?- I get those terms mixed up.)


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## i love jesus and music (Feb 19, 2011)

Matilda was an awesome introvert!


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