# The alternative education thread



## Schwarz (Nov 10, 2008)

Since it came up, how many people here are/were homeschooled, unschooled, or had some other form of alternative education and/or are interested in schooling their kids in the same way? What do you think the advantages and drawbacks are/were/would be?


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## Trope (Oct 18, 2008)

I was homeschooled for a couple of years early on once my father became fed up with the mediocrity of the local public schools. By the time I went back, we were told I was advanced enough to be placed in the fifth grade class, but he had me placed with kids my own age instead. As a result, I didn't have to pay much attention to core classes until about my sophomore year of high school. Math, science, and english especially. Though he didn't mention it then, it turned out I had been taught all the way up through basic algebra by the time I was forced to rejoin the public school system in third grade due, in large part, to matters pertaining to a custody dispute.

As for pros and cons, I'll say that it certainly isn't for everyone since there are so many potentially mitigating circumstances. Some people make the argument that homeschooled students are poorly socialized, but I was only taught for a minimum of two hours a day, every day, after which I was free to spend my time with the neighborhood kids, playing video games, reading, or whatever else. Hell, I was better socialized then than I am now.

I personally see it as an entirely viable option. There's a lot to be said for learning at one's own pace in a tailored curriculum rather than rote memorization and standardized tests.


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## DayLightSun (Oct 30, 2008)

Trope said:


> I was homeschooled for a couple of years early on once my father became fed up with the mediocrity of the local public schools. By the time I went back, we were told I was advanced enough to be placed in the fifth grade class, but he had me placed with kids my own age instead. As a result, I didn't have to pay much attention to core classes until about my sophomore year of high school. Math, science, and english especially. Though he didn't mention it then, it turned out I had been taught me all the way up through basic algebra by the time I was forced to rejoin the public school system in third grade due, in large part, to matters pertaining to a custody dispute.
> 
> As for pros and cons, I'll say that it certainly isn't for everyone since there are so many potentially mitigating circumstances. Some people make the argument that homeschooled students are poorly socialized, but I was only taught for a minimum of two hours a day, every day, after which I was free to spend my time with the neighborhood kids, playing video games, reading, or whatever else. Hell, I was better socialized then than I am now.
> 
> I personally see it as an entirely viable option. There's a lot to be said for learning at one's own pace in a tailored curriculum rather than rote memorization and standardized tests.


I still think your not mortal. I'm with snail on this one.


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## Trope (Oct 18, 2008)

There's a distinction to be drawn between agelessness and immortality.


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## Decon (Dec 9, 2008)

I attended an Alternative High school. I learned more there then I would at any other regular high school. I had a decent number of friends, and learned a bit about how the world works. Isn't that what high school should be? An education nessescary to live on our own and in the real world? So, I'm glad I went to an alternative high school. I had more friends in the first six months at the alternative hs, than I did in two years at a regular HS.


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## de l'eau salée (Nov 10, 2008)

I've never been homeschooled or had any other form of alternative education. I kinda wish I had, but when I think about it, I'd probably have next to no friends at all. At least I have some friends now, but I think that's only because high school is forced upon me. I can at least pretend that I have friends at school :tongue:...


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## DayLightSun (Oct 30, 2008)

Silhouetree said:


> I've never been homeschooled or had any other form of alternative education. I kinda wish I had, but when I think about it, I'd probably have next to no friends at all. At least I have some friends now, but I think that's only because high school is forced upon me. I can at least pretend that I have friends at school :tongue:...


I'm with ya on this one. We're both socal brats.


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## Merov (Mar 8, 2009)

Was schooled in the normal fashion. Did'nt really pay much attention to what the educational system had to say. What they said was either irrelevant, or of little interest. Early on I started practicing deep self hypnosis, and increased my awareness, memory and problem solving abilities. Came exams, I would over-explain some math and science problems, and was marked down because it wasn't according to the answer sheets.

Gave up, and just drifted into the "average student" category. Finally, decided I wanted to be an inventor, and dabbled in whatever took my fancy.

...ended up being a passive-agressive anti-social with multiple personalities and a scary insight in generoligy.
People just seem to irritate me, because they're not on my level, and I don't have time to spend talking about girls or boys, shoes or cars, gossip or speculation.

But thats going off topic a tad.
My experience...
...subsidised educational system turns out less and less "smart" people year after year.

:mellow:


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## Closet Extrovert (Mar 11, 2009)

I would think that if you were home-schooled or unschooled, I would think that you're more in control of the subjects you learn about, i.e. you learn about the things you want to learn about, not what everyone else throws at you. (Tell me if I'm wrong though...:blushed: it's just what comes to my mind...)


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## N^G (Apr 30, 2009)

Schwarz said:


> Since it came up, how many people here are/were homeschooled, unschooled, or had some other form of alternative education and/or are interested in schooling their kids in the same way? What do you think the advantages and drawbacks are/were/would be?


Really simple answer: It really depends on what the quality of the home schooling would be compared to the quality of the school that would be attended. The best thing that you can do for pre-degree level kids is send them to private school if the money is there to do it. Social skills can be picked up outwith school, and interaction with other children becomes optional rather than mandatory.

I went to normal school, left with nothing to show for it because I didn't care, the teachers didn't care, and the culture was to not care. It took a lot of looking long and hard at myself and where I was going, and finding motivation to change my prospects (which to be fair was a concept that I was entirely unfamiliar with in relation to education, and I still struggled with this aspect even throughout doing my degree) to take me to where I am today. The only good side of it all is that I can claim that my success is pretty much self actualised and not driven by the education system.

Also a quick rant: the UK education system is a complete and utter disgrace at high school level. So much potential is lost thanks to the culture that is in place.


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## Closet Extrovert (Mar 11, 2009)

Scipio said:


> Really simple answer: It really depends on what the quality of the home schooling would be compared to the quality of the school that would be attended. The best thing that you can do for pre-degree level kids is send them to private school if the money is there to do it. Social skills can be picked up outwith school, and interaction with other children becomes optional rather than mandatory.
> 
> I went to normal school, left with nothing to show for it because I didn't care, the teachers didn't care, and the culture was to not care. It took a lot of looking long and hard at myself and where I was going, and finding motivation to change my prospects (which to be fair was a concept that I was entirely unfamiliar with in relation to education, and I still struggled with this aspect even throughout doing my degree) to take me to where I am today. The only good side of it all is that I can claim that my success is pretty much self actualised and not driven by the education system.
> 
> Also a quick rant: the UK education system is a complete and utter disgrace at high school level. So much potential is lost thanks to the culture that is in place.


What culture is in place over there?


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## Nightriser (Nov 8, 2008)

I didn't have any special schooling, though private school for my first four years had a mild accelerating effect. I wish I had some kind of homeschooling, but I daresay that I would have been as "unsocialized" as critics claim, due to the fact that I lived in a neighborhood with few neighbors (even fewer had children my age) and my parents did not have time to take me to socialize with the classmates I did have in private school.


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## Dr. Metallic (Nov 15, 2008)

I was homeschooled from 8th grade to graduation.
As for the "ooooh, you'll be so under-socialized" stigma: I was introverted BEFORE I left public school.
The public school system in my area at the time was just not cutting it, so that's why my parents decided I should leave. I got to play to my expertises, but still didn't get to ignore those F*****g numbers >=|


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## N^G (Apr 30, 2009)

Closet Extrovert said:


> What culture is in place over there?


Some of the problems are that:

1) There is no drive to succeed by teachers as they don't seem to have any penalty for failure. Performance related pay wouldn't go amiss. At the high school I attended a one of the classes was taught by a drunk and others by people who could barely manage their own lives never mind teach schoolchildren anything of value.

2) Students are not adequately prepared for the working world. I'd say far fewer teenagers know what they want to do in life than those that do know, there is no provision towards educating kids as to their options and what they need to undertake to achieve it. People really aren't taught how to function normally here as soon as they leave school as they don't understand what is expected of them in a working environment and how different it is from a school environment.

3) It was/is possible to skip class without any form of punishment whatsoever, which is something that I personally achieved by avoiding one class for about 3 times a week for about 7 months. A proper school should have caught that, dont you think? It was quite clear that the school really didn't care, therefore why should the students?

4) My school had a mix of people from different social classes attending, most were from the have not category, therefore the peer group was very much one that was happy to get drunk and live off the dole for the rest of their lives if possible. It is perceived by teenagers that they are unwanted by society, something that is reinforced by the media branding of young adults as drunken, drug taking trouble makers. There was an ingrained social issue, which in my opinion not only still exists, but is widespread.

5) Bullying is rife to the point that teachers are the targets never mind other kids, and have no recourse. I distinctly remember the day that one of my classes succeeded in sending a stand in teacher home crying (and it was a guy at that) and then proceeded to evacuate the room of chairs by throwing them out of the window. There was no action taken by the school towards the culprits, and often getting the parents involved just reinforces that they are as bad as the children. There are plenty of news articles kicking around in UK media archives about similar or more severe incidents. As for kid to kid bullying, I am not going to go into that on a public forum.

So yeah, the school culture in Scotland in general is, students don't care, and the teachers don't care, and the education system doesnt care. Unless it is a private school (or a very very lucky and well managed school) in which case there is motivation to succeed as you have to pay for it and the teachers have to provide a service that matches the expense.

I sincerely hope it has changed in the last decade or so, and I also hope that it I was the odd one out and just didnt "get it". But I doubt it.


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## Schwarz (Nov 10, 2008)

Scipio said:


> Some of the problems are that:
> 
> 1) There is no drive to succeed by teachers as they don't seem to have any penalty for failure. Performance related pay wouldn't go amiss. At the high school I attended a one of the classes was taught by a drunk and others by people who could barely manage their own lives never mind teach schoolchildren anything of value.
> 
> ...


That sounds really bad. I can't really comment on America's educational system below the college level, having been home schooled pretty much all my life until college. I did have one college instructor who consistently showed up drunk, but most of the teachers in the community colleges I've been to have been pretty cool.
John Taylor Gatto wrote a bunch of books about the troubles with the U.S. public educational system. I suspect a lot of the same stuff would apply in Scotland and elsewhere.


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

*Hawk*



Scipio said:


> Some of the problems are that:
> 
> 1) There is no drive to succeed by teachers as they don't seem to have any penalty for failure. Performance related pay wouldn't go amiss. At the high school I attended a one of the classes was taught by a drunk and others by people who could barely manage their own lives never mind teach schoolchildren anything of value.
> 
> ...




This seems like an INTJ message ?


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## N^G (Apr 30, 2009)

Perseus said:


> This seems like an INTJ message ?


thats the third different opinion on what my personality type is in 2 weeks (the others were by my wife, and a friend on irc).

I don't think it really matters though, personality category is just a conversation piece :tongue:


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## Perseus (Mar 7, 2009)

*Mind over Matter*



Scipio said:


> thats the third different opinion on what my personality type is in 2 weeks (the others were by my wife, and a friend on irc).
> 
> I don't think it really matters though, personality category is just a conversation piece :tongue:


I think it matters. To be treated as a different personality is so stressful as to be fatal. As an INTP, if I was expected to behave like an ESFJ in say Sales work, I would be at the end of the world double-quick and faster.


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## N^G (Apr 30, 2009)

I don't know, I'd be pretty irritated if a colleague or friend treated me one way, and then turned around and treated someone else differently based on a web survey, regardless of how established or otherwise that surveys roots were.


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## CJay3113 (Dec 31, 2008)

Regular public school was a drag for me. Lots of dark stories there, so I ended up homeschooled a couple of times and I loved it. Of course like many things I enjoyed, it was short lived. I stopped going to public school in 7th grade and started going to alternative schools. I liked them because they had about seven kids per classroom. The only downside to those types of school is the actual education process. I did not learn things I was suppose to in my grades, so technically I'm way behind people my age. It's upsetting to think about now and how this will affect me and any college I may or may not decide to go to. Would they accept basketcases? Anyway, I would not recommend alternative schools for those who can not function in a normal school setting. My advice? Public school will offer you more. Stick it out if you can. It's not worth it in the long run, I wish I had been stronger for public school. Actually, a few years ago my mom told me the reason why she pushed me back into a school was because she wanted me to be around people and not closed off. She regrets it now after I told her how I felt about the whole situation. A little late for fake sadness..way to go mom.


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