# Counter-Sloth 9 vs 4



## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

I came across this thread describing counter-sloth nines: The Enneagram Institute Discussion Board - How I realized I was a 9. I've quoted some of the key points here:



> Counter-slothic nines are afraid of not being aware. They will do anything within their grasp to become more aware of themselves, except they neglect actually taking action in their lives. Action can be put off till later, as long as introspection and navel gazing is maintained. That's why 9s can be extremely aware and yet avoid what needs to be done. Counter-slothic 9s problems is not a lack of awareness, but an overabundance and over-focus on awareness. They fall asleep to their body, their actions, drawing attention to themselves, and fall asleep to life in general. The problem they have is difficulty taking action in the world and becoming a real person instead of a disembodied spirit.





> Counter-slothic 9s focus so much on how they are different from others rather than on the similarities, because of their alignment to their inner world and the rejection of the outer world. The focus is on disconnection, not relating, not merging, and the frustration of not belonging in the universe. Specifically there is the object relation of how much more awake they are than other people, not seeing how ineffectual and asleep they actually are. There is an identification with the self-image of being aware which is in direct opposition to the actual lack of awareness of their true nature - who they really are.


This describes me so well it's kinda scary. But I'm a bit confused because this sounds more like type 4 to me than 9. What exactly is the difference between a counter-sloth 9 and a 4? How would you tell them apart?


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## Kito (Jan 6, 2012)

Maybe you could look at the difference in triads. Four is in the reactive, frustration and heart triads. Nine is in the positive, attachment and body triads.

This is a pretty good site for information on the triads. Check under Patterns & Structures.


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## Recede (Nov 23, 2011)

Kito said:


> Maybe you could look at the difference in triads. Four is in the reactive, frustration and heart triads. Nine is in the positive, attachment and body triads.
> 
> This is a pretty good site for information on the triads. Check under Patterns & Structures.


I can relate to the ones for both 4 and 9, though I'm leaning slightly toward 4. However, what's described in the countersloth 9 descriptions doesn't sound like it fits 9's triads. 



> _The focus is on disconnection, not relating, not merging, and the frustration of not belonging in the universe._


This does not sound like the attachment triad to me.



> At some point in their development, Twos, Threes, and Fours feel that they have lost these essential qualities -- that they have lost contact with their value and with their identity. They adopt a false belief that they are worthless, leading to an underlying feeling of shame.
> 
> To compensate, the personality tries to create and maintain a personal identity that will overcome these feelings. This self-image is based on memories and interpretations from their past. By identifying with this self-image, they create a false sense of value. Twos, Threes, and Fours spend a great deal of energy seeking validation from others to affirm this self-image.


I've read that 9's experience a sense of inner lacking, of not being able to connect to their interiority, which sounds similar to what is described in the first paragraph. But where 9's normally split off is in how they deal with this inner lack. Normally, 9's turn away from their inner experience and adopt a going with the flow style, but the opposite seems true in countersloth 9's, who are focused on their identity. These 9's actually seem like they belong in the heart triad.

If countersloth 9's seem to fit better in the 4's triads, then that makes them even more difficult to distinguish. I'm actually starting to wonder if there even is a difference. Could the OP in the link I posted describing countersloth 9's actually have been a 4?


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## Napoleptic (Oct 29, 2010)

Silveresque said:


> Normally, 9's turn away from their inner experience and adopt a going with the flow style, but the opposite seems true in countersloth 9's, who are focused on their identity. These 9's actually seem like they belong in the heart triad.
> 
> If countersloth 9's seem to fit better in the 4's triads, then that makes them even more difficult to distinguish. I'm actually starting to wonder if there even is a difference. Could the OP in the link I posted describing countersloth 9's actually have been a 4?


Note that Nines feel that they are Nobody Special. This means that they are neither more nor less special than anyone else; this is *not* the same as "feeling worthless". And while I relate very strongly to the description you originally posted, I very rarely spend energy seeking validation from others, let alone seeking it to affirm my self-image like it says in your second post.

Although I think the term countersloth is a misnomer - how would you call "except they neglect actually taking action in their lives" anything but sloth? Just because the inaction is focused on self-development rather than more traditionally slothful subjects doesn't make it any less slothful.

Edited to add: Great information, by the way - I really think that captures my frustration with being a Nine.


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