# 5 and 2 relationships



## Briggs (Aug 23, 2009)

I know a 5w6 that has a very rocky relationship with a 2. Yet the stay together.

My mother is a 2 and I have a very hard time having a genuine relationship with her, it is also rocky.

Is this common?


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

I also know a 2w3 (EXFJ) and 5w6 (INTJ) that are having lots of trouble.... One doesn't feel validated, needed, or wanted.... the other doesnt see what all the fuss is about.


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## Briggs (Aug 23, 2009)

The funny thing, and you know so much about enneagram.....is that arent 2s like ESFJish and 5s INTP/J ISTJ ish.....the supposed best pairing according to some theories. 
I do NOT see that happening.


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## sunshine (Jul 18, 2009)

Dated an INTJ once. Soooooo many issues.


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

MyLittleBlackHeart said:


> The funny thing, and you know so much about enneagram.....is that arent 2s like ESFJish and 5s INTP/J ISTJ ish.....the supposed best pairing according to some theories.
> I do NOT see that happening.


I've never seen that, and would assume the author of such a theory was impaired in some way. Maybe... smoking crack or something.

The 2 would very likely not get the emotional validation they need. The 5 would be in heaven... until the 2, feeling unloved and taken advantage of started yelling. Often. 

The 5 not "getting it" would say all the wrong things... it just goes downhill from there. Awareness for both would help a lot... but the communication would always require both to change gears mentally and emotionally. Lots of work.


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## Briggs (Aug 23, 2009)

I know Perseus from around this board has quoted ESFJ and ISTJ as matched. I would be interested as to what he bases that on, his points.

My mom is an ESFP/2 and my son an ISTJ....they actually get into arguments where I will just tell her like it is and get away from her. We both feel hounded by her and she follows us all over the house everywhere wanting to talk etc no matter where we retreat when she is visiting.

Here is an example: Although two well-developed individuals of any type can enjoy a healthy relationship, ESFP's natural partner is the ISTJ, or the ISFJ. ESFP's dominant Extraverted Sensing function is best matched with a personality that is dominated by Introverted Sensing.

from this source: http://www.personalitypage.com/ESFP_rel.html


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## Briggs (Aug 23, 2009)

sunshine said:


> Dated an INTJ once. Soooooo many issues.


I would love for you to expand on that and explain..... I have one point of view, and would really love to understand how 2's see 5's.


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## sunshine (Jul 18, 2009)

MyLittleBlackHeart said:


> I would love for you to expand on that and explain..... I have one point of view, and would really love to understand how 2's see 5's.


Well, I'm fairly sure he was borderline INT(J/P) (we broke up before I heard about MBTI, so this is my speculation, and I'm not sure he's extremely J or P). I'm not sure about his enneagram, but he very easily could have been a five. He actually had Asperger's syndrome, if you're familiar with that. Our issues with one another kind of fueled themselves. He needed large amounts of alone time, and I needed lots of time together; the fact that we couldn't fully satisfy each other in that way made us both need those things even more, and it became a cycle. That was one of our two main issues. The other was that he had no insight into social cues (one of the main aspects of Asperger's), which was frustrating for both of us because I naturally do a lot of "hinting," and he felt like I wanted him to read my mind. Another minor issue was the F vs. T thing. I am a pretty strong F, and he was a very strong T, so we had trouble understanding the logic of each other's decisions. That also caused him to be frustrated with me when I couldn't stop considering the emotional aspect of some theory or idea he would come up with, and I would be frustrated with him for his inability to empathize or consider people's feelings in most situations.


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## 480 (Jan 22, 2009)

sunshine said:


> Well, I'm fairly sure he was borderline INT(J/P) (we broke up before I heard about MBTI, so this is my speculation, and I'm not sure he's extremely J or P). I'm not sure about his enneagram, but he very easily could have been a five. He actually had Asperger's syndrome, if you're familiar with that. Our issues with one another kind of fueled themselves. He needed large amounts of alone time, and I needed lots of time together; the fact that we couldn't fully satisfy each other in that way made us both need those things even more, and it became a cycle. That was one of our two main issues. The other was that he had no insight into social cues (one of the main aspects of Asperger's), which was frustrating for both of us because I naturally do a lot of "hinting," and he felt like I wanted him to read my mind. Another minor issue was the F vs. T thing. I am a pretty strong F, and he was a very strong T, so we had trouble understanding the logic of each other's decisions. That also caused him to be frustrated with me when I couldn't stop considering the emotional aspect of some theory or idea he would come up with, and I would be frustrated with him for his inability to empathize or consider people's feelings in most situations.


All of this seems fairly typical of the stereotype divide between I and E and T and F. I'm not making a value judgment... but it seems both parties were selfish of their needs and points of view. I'm not sure what other impact the Asperger's Syndrome had on the relationship... but there's enough people out there that don't have it... that have a hard time with, or just outright cannot tolerate a communication style that revolves around "hinting". Maybe the Asperger's rendered him completely clueless... but I'd suspect you'd have that problem with most people at least to some degree.

I don't see anything here that stands out as being specific to a 2 <-> 5 relationship. These issues seem to be pretty universal.


sunshine... do you think if both of you had found out about this personality stuff sooner, things would have been different?


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## sunshine (Jul 18, 2009)

Grim said:


> sunshine... do you think if both of you had found out about this personality stuff sooner, things would have been different?


I think it would have helped a lot. I think the root of our problems was that we didn't understand each other properly. When we talked out our problems, we tried so hard to get on the same page, but it felt like we were speaking different languages (in a way, we were, because we were very different people). I think learning about MBTI would have helped us learn to understand (and even speak) each other's "languages" a bit more easily.


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## Briggs (Aug 23, 2009)

As I get a little older I am seeing that the 'birds of a feather' seems to work better for me. That whole 'opposites attract' theory never worked out.


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## sunshine (Jul 18, 2009)

MyLittleBlackHeart said:


> As I get a little older I am seeing that the 'birds of a feather' seems to work better for me. That whole 'opposites attract' theory never worked out.


Agreed. I kind of hope someday I end up with an ESFJ or ISFJ man... The problem is that they're apparently pretty rare. :tongue:


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## Briggs (Aug 23, 2009)

Good luck with that!  I appreciate your perspective in this!


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## perennialurker (Oct 1, 2009)

Perhaps I am too inexperienced and naive for the birds of the same feather concept, but as I've read more about 2's I think I'd really really like one. Granted they would have to be healthy, mature, and iNtuitive, but with those things I think I would be immensely happy (the 2's happiness would be another matter entirely). Also I should mention that I think that I might be a sexual variant of the 5w6 at least according to this description:


Udit Patel This Is My World (Ichazo's "Confidence")
_Sexual Fives focus their hoarding in the area of intimate relationships. The combination of instinct and type are at odds here: the Five defense is to withdraw, while the sexual instinct demands intimacy and connection. Most Sexual Fives live in an uneasy truce between these polar influences, but they seek to resolve this tension by slowly inviting prospective intimates into their own secret world. Sexual Fives are primarily focused in their imaginations, but they believe that most others would find their thoughts and preoccupations dark and even frightening. At the very least, they are certain that others will find them odd or eccentric. Nonetheless, they want to share their perceptions and hidden worlds and secretly hope to have a deep connection with a single soul, a mate for life, who can understand them and their sometimes bizarre views of reality. Intimacy for them entails finding someone else who will explore the surreal vistas of their inner world. They also look to their partner for some degree of help in dealing with people and the practical affairs of life. They hope that their partner will run interference for them and give them confidence to navigate the external world. If Sexual Fives are disappointed in love, they may retreat and remain unattached for long periods of time, even years._


I can certainly see the potential for problems though.


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## Aßbiscuits (Oct 8, 2009)

*My first serious relationship was with a 2. It lasted nearly two years and only got rocky near the end.

We bickered a lot but it was nothing serious.

We disagreed on almost everything but she was too mature to fight about but I was too apathetic to go easy on my differing views.*


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## Later Days (Jan 19, 2010)

I'm a 2w3(sp/sx)(ENFP) in a relationship with what I'm pretty sure is a 5w6(sx/sp)(ISTP). We really don't have many problems, and when they do arise it's fairly easy to work through them. I do feel unwanted sometimes, but I've learned to ask for an honest answer from my 5 when I feel that way. I think the main problem is that 2's feel afraid to ask for anything, even validation, while 5's give no response unless directly asked. Though he seems to have an easier time telling me what I mean to him, probably due to being a sx variant 5.
I can definitely see problems arising in a 2 self-pres being with a 5 self-pres relationship. One wants to to be thanked, while the other is waaaaay too reserved to say anything. Maybe I just got lucky?
As for the birds of a feather, I'm lucky enough to share nearly identical interests and goals. Opposites attract ALMOST NEVER works out. It's maddening.

Sorry if this post makes no sense, I'm pretty new to the world of enneagrams.


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## wiarumas (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm a 1 married to a 5. For the most part, we are fine because our beliefs and personalities are a lot alike (ENTJ/INTJ). The problem that arises is when our stubbornness/perfectionism collide. I push too hard and too fast for her. Being an extroverted thinker, I come at her like I'm running a brainstorming meeting trying to solve the issue. All she needs though is some time to herself to think things over. If I let her do her moment in solitude thing, everything is fine and we return to normal.


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## Ming (Apr 7, 2010)

Wait so if a 2 dances around a 5, they won't feel happy? Damn.

:crazy: I've never met a 5 in real life before - so I really have NO IDEA how they are like. Though they sound like the kind of people I'd like to meet. 

Any gay 5's here?  But then again, if they were 5s, they probably wouldn't be that concerned about sexuality. Oh well...


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## hz light (Nov 7, 2013)

it is also necessary to analyze the tritype of the couple,a 295 for example would understand a lot more about a 5 just as a 521 would understand a lot more about a 2,so you gotta check the other two motivations.


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